# haha more tanks, 4 dirt tanks in a 7 tank rack



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

I needed more water. :hihi:
4 - 10's on top, 3 - 20's on the self and a sump on the floor.
57" total frame height. The first shelf 23" off the ground to clear a dog door (and the leg notched to clear the frame). 
Then 3-20g Talls, 10" of clearance for lighting and to access the tanks and then 4-10g tanks on top. 
I needed it to fit (squeezed) in a given space so 57x45". 










The shelf on top is wider and narrower in depth for the 10g tanks.
The 20's are deeper with less width being placed side out.
10g shelf framed out at 45 x 21 1/2" 
20g shelf frames at 39 x 25" (room for plumbing)
Tank support is front and back only using standard plastic framed glass tanks ($1/g sale :tongue

Sorry no build print just a material list; 7 _**straight* *8_' 2x4's and a box of wood screws. The rest was plumbing. 
Estimated the take off list at 8 2x4's and used 7.
Built in a day with screws and stain only. Without glued joints the tanks are filled and the rack is *very* stable. 
Using 3" decking screws it's not going anywhere.










































Plumbing.
Daisy chain siphon assembly like I use in the office and sponge panels will be added in the sump. 
Access to the overflow is easy though a window LMAO!

























I did have a little help LOL


















Painful project but almost complete


----------



## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Looking good, what do you plan to put in them?


----------



## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

coooolllll


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

babies and baby makers :smile: 

20T is the minimum size tank for the average size Angel breeding pair.
Also thinking I may need to split up the male LFABN Ancistrus. 
One more big fight in the 110g and junior is going to be moving. 

The solution to pollution is dilution and with the tanks chained together the 20's are 80g equivalent and the 10's 40 gallon on the water column. Separate tanks allow fish of different sizes without predation but retain the water volume for filtering effect. The sump will have a huge moss ball in the middle.


----------



## mscichlid (Jul 14, 2008)

Very nice. Well made and thought out.


----------



## SteveMcQueen (Apr 29, 2009)

I dig this. Its like a very small LFS!


----------



## TactusMortus (Jun 28, 2011)

I wish my local fish store was this well thought out. Also wish my local fish store knew 1% of what this guy knows about breeding and keeping fish.


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

That's amazing! It's so nice to see kids getting involved. My dad cleverly lured me into his fish hobby - now I'm a carbon copy of him! lol I wouldn't want it any other way...
With all that natural light will algae be a issue, or is that over rated? You're making everyone want to set up fish rooms - lol.


----------



## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

TactusMortus said:


> I wish my local fish store was this well thought out. Also wish my local fish store knew 1% of what this guy knows about breeding and keeping fish.


Most of my local fish stores sell crap and they keep doing it over years because of the mentality here 'Buy Cheap, buy twice' LoL! 

I want only ADA equipments.


----------



## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Looks like a promising fish farm to come. I'm interested in a more in depth explanation of how your tank linking works. I see some PVC pipes going from tank to tank to tank, but will this also enable the water levels to stay constant between all tanks?


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Beautiful and elegant set up, well thought out and executed


----------



## Calmia22 (Aug 20, 2011)

Nice easy way to have everything going at once! 

I am hoping to eventually open up a LFS (after college) get people more interested in fish then the bettas they get at Walmart, or the guy with 75% salt water 2 towns away.


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Just my 2 cents... Looks great, but if it were in my house, I would put vertical supports in between the shelves, so that the load is transferred directly from wood to wood and not from wood to bolt/screw to wood. 

I'd also tie the legs together. At least front to back. If not square. 


You could easily add in vertical supports now, before it is too late. Just fill the gaps so that there something holding up the shelves other than screws/bolts.


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

I think the window access is ingenious! I laughed a bit to myself thinking "wait till winter! har har har..." then I realized you're in Florida...


----------



## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

Calmia22 said:


> Nice easy way to have everything going at once!
> 
> I am hoping to eventually open up a LFS (after college) get people more interested in fish then the bettas they get at Walmart, or the guy with 75% salt water 2 towns away.


That's really cool dude!
Wish you all the best to open up a LFS 

Reef tanks are very popular in US despite of their cost.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

speedie408 said:


> Looks like a promising fish farm to come. I'm interested in a more in depth explanation of how your tank linking works. I see some PVC pipes going from tank to tank to tank, but will this also enable the water levels to stay constant between all tanks?


The water level stays even in each tank with adequate flow provided via the U tubes. On prior versions of this plumbing method I used 1" pipe between each tank. 55, 20T, 10g currently linked and a pair of 10g fry tanks. Critters stay separated by use of filter foam on the suction side of the piping. Marineland Reverse Flow sponges work very well but allow small fish like early free swimming angels to be drawn through. Eheim prefilter cartridges for 2227/2327 or 2229/2329 are fine pore blocking smaller fry but also you need to watch for blockage with mum build up occurring faster. Also I was limited on the return flow rate with only one pipe. Using two U tubes I don't know what the flow limit will be. Flow based on pump size currently is 150gph with no lag on the levels.


OverStocked said:


> Just my 2 cents... Looks great, but if it were in my house, I would put vertical supports in between the shelves, so that the load is transferred directly from wood to wood and not from wood to bolt/screw to wood.
> 
> I'd also tie the legs together. At least front to back. If not square.
> 
> You could easily add in vertical supports now, before it is too late. Just fill the gaps so that there something holding up the shelves other than screws/bolts.


Troubled by this post being made and knowing I shouldn't be and not surprised at the need for someone to do it.
The upper shelf is notched into a rabbit fit so directly transmitting from wood to wood the load goes straight down to the verticals. 
Maximum shelf span between supports is 39" and carrying 675lbs. on the lower shelf so roughly 170lbs per leg, exactly where do you think it will go?
The 20's at mid level (170lb per leg) are supported by #8 3" Phillips II high performance (high grade steel) fasteners with 4 used at each corner and cross tied, nothing is going to move. 
Corners are all right angles, framed level and plumb. 

4 #8 high carbon steel fasteners under static load, in shear,,,,
Google that before warning *something needs to be done to add vertical supports now, before it is too late*. No thanks, this isn't the worry I have. 

hahaha the legs are only 23" long and made out of 2x4"s in a fixed, level load pattern on a concrete slab and against a wall. The total load transmission is about 1120lbs.
My free standing kitchen table has legs on it 28 1/2" long fixed at about a 7° angle and fastened into only 3x3/4" wood with a single 3/8 lag bolt and wing nut each. What my wife and I have done on that table should carry it's own ANSI rating. LMAO


driftwoodhunter said:


> I think the window access is ingenious! I laughed a bit to myself thinking "wait till winter! har har har..." then I realized you're in Florida...


haha yup all of 3 weeks to a month of winter each year. 
Those windows are "thermopane" or double-paned vinyl frame units anyway. They have a higher R value than the block the house is made of LOL.


----------



## dundee (Sep 14, 2011)

Awesome... yet another wkndracer thread to subscribe to. Can't wait to see where this goes...


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*4 more dirt tanks*

Feeling better even though my left arm is still useless. (stopped taking drugs last night)
Wandering around in my elastic waistbands and Velcro shoes being bored out of my mind after only two weeks (OMG!!!).
I found myself in the shop looking at my failed mineralized soil pile on the shower curtain. 
Mentioned this six months of ant fighting in two other threads, anyway it had soaked for six months in a shallow frame.










Before my surgery it was moved into the shop and left on the floor.
Sitting there for a month it's dry more or less. Mud pie pic from the past.










For some weird reason some of the membership think I know 1 or 2 things about setting up NPT's.







Well,,, 
I've poo poo'ed on anyone's thread for screening the dirt as a waste of time and material setting up a tank. (I kno, I kno, how completely rude!)
Well today I decided what I wanted to do with the 10g tanks and I screened the dirt with one hand for 1/2 my day.
Never say never and never say always LOL Worked it through fiberglass window screening material. 


















I ended up with about a 3.5g volume in both buckets but I do have a reason for this that I hope will be clear with time.


















Capping material? :smile:








100lb bags are stupid cheap.

I'm wanting a fine grained dirt and cap because I plan on doing something else I've told people not to do,,, 
what I said to never do with a dirt tank. 
I intend on pulling rooted plants every time the tanks are full. 
These are going to be grow tanks. 6dGH, 2dKH and water column dosing too.
Had success growing some nice Blyxa without CO2 and want to do crypt tanks too.

Calling out to all my Fraternity brother and sisters and members of TPT in general. 
I'm thinking only 1 or maybe 2 types of plant in each tank and looking for donors AND suggestions. 
The condition of my elbows and treatments are going to have me here to see the grass grow the rest of the year with my income in a steady state of flat line. 
Not whining broke and can handle shipping costs without issue but looking for ideas on what and starter groups for the tanks.

1 to 1.5" of screened dirt and capped with about the same depth black sand.

Lighting is currently 80wT12 GE Plant & aquarium @ 10.5" adjustable up to whatever is needed.
Also have a pair of 2x32T8 fixtures if I need to up or spread the lighting. 

Water movement is provided by the same simple system I used on the pleco pans with a 5w power head tubed to a spraybar. 
From tank #1 returned into tank #4 with crossover siphons linking the tanks. 
Flow is moving dust particles in all the tanks nicely right now.


























anybody have any plants or ideas for the mini farm?


----------



## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

you should definitely have rotala macrandra!


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Looks good

I think a mix of rare and semi-rare plants might be the way to go.

Maybe Erios if you get a hold of them?


----------



## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

Oooo I can't wait too see this fill up.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

orchidman said:


> you should definitely have rotala macrandra!


This doesn't read like it will play well with others;
Rotala Macrandra likes a long day to thrive, say ten hours or thereabouts. Water must be free of nitrates and phosphates. Frequent water changes, I normally change a third of a tank each week. Water should have a neutral pH, water temperature doesn't seem important, mine ranges anywhere between 26 and 31°C. reasonably soft water. Use a good quality chelated iron plant food and be wary to those rubbish brands that are high in phosphates.


----------



## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

FREAKIN AWESOME SETUP!!!

I too can't wait to see how this turns out!

Heck I wish I could help Ya on the plant list, but I can't remember what is in my own tank, or what they are called!! DUHHH ME!! I have really gotten to like the Crypts and Anubais, but I know how You feel about the later! Like someone above said, try to get some of the harder to find plants and run with them! Make you some extra cash in the SnS!

Best of Luck on this new Venture!!!
Drew


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Holy moley, wknd! Not even a bum elbow stops your madness. Is your wife about to punch you for the addition of tanks? I think Earl would move me out of the house. :hihi: I think you couldn't go wrong with downoi.  People are always begging me for this plant. Like seriously annoying sometimes. The rack is cool. Did you build it?


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> The rack is cool. Did you build it?


Nope bought it. Purchased 7 - 8' 2x4's :hihi:

You really have been gone too long,,, used to refer to me as the DIY guy :icon_redf


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

I just love this - it STILL amazes me!


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You are not the DIY guy, but the DIY GURU!!! So tell me Mister Guru, would you send my husband an email and tell him that cinder blocks and 2 x 4s is all I really need for my 33 gallon?  Better yet, next time you are up here, tell him that. LOL


----------



## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Mike- I never knew this about rotala macrandra! I certiantly don't do anything special for it. Maybe ishiuld start. Thanks


Oh my goodness! Is it really batwoman??? I missed you so much! And there has been a lack of activity since you left. You really are the life of the party 


You can call me Bob


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

orchidman said:


> Mike- I never knew this about rotala macrandra! I certiantly don't do anything special for it. Maybe ishiuld start. Thanks
> You can call me Bob


well then maybe you should send me a little of it and get started pampering the rest if it LOL


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*Mattenfilter panels x2*

Sump done today WAHOO!

Ordered a bigger pump and foam from Steve @ AngelsPlus :icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr
Mattenfilter sump!
On with the upgrade!

Water has cleared and simply needing the right starter plants for the 10's










Panels are placed at both ends so I can have a moss/?shrimp? chamber in the middle and the pump is protected twice. :smile: 
(so maybe it's eight tanks? :icon_roll)










Inline on the discharge is a ball valve for throttling the pump, 20w, rated at 250gph at this height (another biggrin :icon_mrgr)










Handy dandy glass cutter was put to use also to modify a lid. 
With the brace framed in as I built this minimalist stand a full lid wouldn't open. Cut the hinge and 5" off the end so I have access Clearing the framing.


























Got tanks? Yup eight of 'em with two pumps LMAO


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I really wish I understood plumbing like you do. Seriously if you are ever back up this way, you'll need to explain this one to me in detail. I've tried reading and researching, but I don't get how it works without creating a big siphon and puddle on the ground. You are too smart for your own good. You should have told me you want to try shrimp. I would have sent you some.


----------



## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

maybe i should send you some!


----------



## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

woahh what the heck....... how did i miss this????????? love the kid helping out. hope mine will too.


any updates?


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

If you are still looking for plants, I may be able to help you out. Got a ton of stuff in the greenhouses that need to be thinned. I may be able to help you on the shrimp too. Tons of cherries that I will have to thin out too. I'll give you a good deal too. You may have to walk me through the shipping nonsense though.:thumbsup:

And this is almost the rack I was thinking of to breed shrimp. I may take your design inch for inch. I will, of course, give you credit for it though.:hihi:roud:


----------



## irishchickadee (Mar 19, 2009)

This is an insane setup... if only I was given free reign of my house to build a monster like this. A 30L, a 5 and a 2.5 will have to suffice for now. 

Great job on the execution, like someone else said, wish my LFS applied this much effort into their fish tanks.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

First of all it looks great, it's a cool idea for plants and fry, but I need more detail on the plumbing, I just about wore out my scroll wheel looking at and trying to figure how you got the initial siphon, overflows, etc. Plus is this a north facing window cause the Florida sun is killer all summer?

I'm gonna have to stop by your house on one of my Biketober playcations and see the whole spread with my own two eyes and get skooled on plumbing tanks.

It's late now but black paint would have helped on the PVC disappear.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> I really wish I understood plumbing like you do. Seriously if you are ever back up this way, you'll need to explain this one to me in detail. I've tried reading and researching, but I don't get how it works without creating a big siphon and puddle on the ground. You are too smart for your own good. You should have told me you want to try shrimp. I would have sent you some.


haha if I was truly smart I would have figured out how to be money rich LOL


nonconductive said:


> woahh what the heck....... how did i miss this????????? love the kid helping out. hope mine will too.
> any updates?


hahaha maybe I have too many threads LOL It's my farm rack I mentioned before PMing Chad you like it?
Update and cleaning tomorrow. (I hope LOL)



150EH said:


> First of all it looks great, it's a cool idea for plants and fry, but I need more detail on the plumbing, I just about wore out my scroll wheel looking at and trying to figure how you got the initial siphon, overflows, etc. Plus is this a north facing window cause the Florida sun is killer all summer?
> 
> I'm gonna have to stop by your house on one of my Biketober playcations and see the whole spread with my own two eyes and get skooled on plumbing tanks.
> 
> It's late now but black paint would have helped on the PVC disappear.


Thanks for the comments from everyone and I promise to all asking that I will detail the plumbing as it sits right now because it works as is. 
I do plan on a couple modifications and will open the upper loop before it's over to feed down to the sump. Currently the 4-10's are stand alone with the single 8watt power head plants only. A few shrimp or guppies will be added just to stop Florida's ever present bug population from using them for spawning/breeding.

Wanting to grow those 'rare' plants to share so we'll see how that works.

Yes on a North facing window as the house faces almost due South and it's located on the back now fully enclosed porch. This was a two day build from start to flooded and planted so a tight time table before my surgery. No time for Krylon and plumbing doesn't offend me being farm not display. If a system is neatly assembled I don't mind seeing it. Besides now that I have 21 to 24 flooded water boxes depending on spawns I'm busy LOL

We are directly across on the West coast from Daytona and TPT members are always welcome as things are currently. 
Leesburg has a bikefest too :wink:


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Delmarva too!!!!! I looked not knowing where the heck Citrus County is but my wife and I went to Silver Springs to some water slide park years ago before we were even married, it looked about 45 minutes or so from your area, or only __________ this far on the map.

21 to 24 water cages your income should be coming from the SnS.

People think bikers are a mean or unruly group (we are) but I've never paid for a hotel in Florida, Vermont, New Hampshire, South Carolina, New York, they are some of the best and most hospitable people you'll ever meet.


----------



## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

mean and unruly = 1%er


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Now you guys are making me want another motorcycle. DOH! I should get my license back first. Lol.:hihi:

150, if you are gonna swing my Mikes, that would be sweet. I would love to see his setups. I am just going to have to live vicariously through you on that one.:icon_cool:thumbsup:

Mike, we should just organize a huge road trip. We could get all the TPT members that want to see everyone's tanks, and systems, and just start a trek across part of the country.:icon_cool


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That would be cool and take all summer too! We would be the first biker gang that liked planted aquariums, the "Wet Angles" only problem is we would get our butts kicked every where we ride, or maybe the "Dirt Weeds" would be a little better.

Cable with a new wife & baby, I hate to break the news but..................it's over bro, you got 20 to life my friend.


----------



## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

is it the bottom rocker they get so mad about? the one that says the location right? (they being 1%) 

one of the clubs i used to frequent was industrial / bondage upstairs but the first floor was a biker / punk bar. sometimes it get kind of scary trying to make your way through to the staircase to go upstairs.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No it's the MC, we have a little club (it's just fun) the "Road Whores" and on the first batch of Tee shirts (1985) they put MC, so a guy is wearing his shirt and a couple of HA members walk up and tell him he's gotta take it off, he said "look if you want me to take it off I will but I'm not going to walk around all day without a shirt so you'll have to buy me another shirt to wear" they did and he wore it with no other problems, but it could have got ugly over nothing. The bottom patch only means your a full member and not a probate in most clubs.

Most of the time if I see those guys coming I go the other way, that's not why I ride.


----------



## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

wow i cant believe they bought him a shirt and just didnt start with the violence. 

there was a large outlaw population where i grew up and those dudes were just bad news. always harrassing others.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

You can't avoid some contact at the 4 big bike week parties, but everybody gets along from what I've seen, and I've never seen a fight or really even a heated argument, most everyone is just trying to have a good time.

Oh, I did see a pretty hot girl get arrested in Daytona for pulling up her shirt, it was so sad when they hauled her off.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*Can't derail you guys LOL*

Been to Sturgis three times and everybody plays nice in town.
In 2006 the Outlaws had a little capping party in Custer State park. Happened on the Southern end as we were riding out the North end on the same afternoon (passed two groups on the loop). Mind your own biz and act like a human and conversations seemed normal to me as with anybody else. Taken group pictures for club members on road trips several times so all are included. I've had conversations limited to wheeled topics more than once with clubbers, responsive and in kind from members of what are (I think) the three largest groups too. 

I'm an enthusiast of the machine and citizen rider so not in play when it comes to their business. Out of town on road trips I do lock my stuff down tight and stay aware of where when solo. But I'm not a bar hopper/rider so I see little or no issue with affiliated types.
I can tell you my '98 M2 Buell with a 96cu motor and Baker6 has had more than one 'patch' pass comment or nod at the pumps and on the road. :biggrin:
American iron is just that, American.

Rack trimmed, water changed and cleaned but pics aren't done yet.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Can't wait to see it, I would like to have more tanks but space is limited here. I do have plans for a 10 to 12 gallon shrimp tank I would like to build 30x10x10 and would be low tech with a ton of filtration and UGF, and my old office has room for a 7' 7" x 30 x 24 Wasserpest Starphire plywood tank that would be about 266 gallons and around 1K complete, I gotta ease my wife into it. Can you image your lady coming home and telling you she wants to do that (but your not into tanks, you like to cook, nice clothes, and march for Breast Cancer) what would your reaction be and I'm not looking for OMG I'm gay.

I like the Buell and a lot of innovations came from those bikes too, American innovation. I don't drink but ride with some bar hoppers from time to time, and go to some of the smaller local club parties, Halloween, Turkey Shoots, etc. everyone is cool but I look like a 6 foot Oak stump coming at you so most folks are polite.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> That would be cool and take all summer too! We would be the first biker gang that liked planted aquariums, the "Wet Angles" only problem is we would get our butts kicked every where we ride, or maybe the "Dirt Weeds" would be a little better.
> 
> Cable with a new wife & baby, I hate to break the news but..................it's over bro, you got 20 to life my friend.


Good use of a summer in my eyes. And you never know, those hard core guys could have a piranha tank they want to plant or something like that.:hihi:

Lol. I guess I still have the mid-life crisis sports car to look forward to.:hihi:

And it will be the best 20 to life I could ever spend.:biggrin: (mushy moment over now)


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*taa daa from the dummy - how to on this set up*

taa daa from the dummy, the how to on this type set up :hihi:
There are MUCH better ways to do this on central systems and I have links to outstanding how to threads on TAFF II but drilling the glass and bulkheads are required. 

This type system does work and I've used it for over two years without a flood inside my home. Being the cheapest/easiest route I used it here for the farm tanks.

















The upper row 10g tanks are a single 1" siphon linked closed loop. 
The easiest way to flood these PVC 'U tubes' is fill the first tank completely and fill the second just past the bottom of the pipe. Using air tubing tilt the pipe to place one elbow higher than the other and push the tubing up right to the top inside. Create a vacuum on the tubing to remove most of the air and as the siphon starts there is a large amount of flow filling the second tank to equilibrium with the first. This will force 99% (if not all) of the air out of the PVC. 
The 90° elbows on the bottom are not glued. Rotating these elbows I can tune the current eliminating dead spots and I have no debris build up to date. Opposite corner inlet and outlet is best creating circular cross flow in each tank. The long pipe length allows >50% WC without siphon loss.










Power heads are by far the cheapest to operate water movers on the market and this setup has a *SINGLE* Penguin 660 plumbed in. I prefer the Marineland MaxJet 400 due to the mount assembly and discharge configuration it's easier to modify but having both here so I use what I have. This one has the sponge filter attachment on it. 
No other way is cheaper to move water through multiple tanks with regard to power consumption that I've found. (4 tanks, 1 pump, 5watts)

Surface film is a pet peeve of mine so a priority is eliminating it.
Any surface disruption eliminates it so that's easy using CPVC 1/2" and 1/2" tubing for the return line. A single drilled hole streaming even a small amount of water into the tanks and zero film build up.


















The lower row of 20's have increased flow and because of that I doubled the number of PVC U tubes still using 1" pipe. Same elbows for flow control. But added strainers to keep the fish out of the piping and separate livestock. Sponges work very well with small fry and also collect debris so flow restrictions must be monitored. Clean sponges create little to no water level changes throughout the daisy chain. When tank levels vary then the sponges are dirty. 
I use the adapters For Penguin 660R Powerheads along with strainers for the Penguin 330 Filter - 1 In. Item #: 214053. Both adapt to fit 1" piping easily. I'll be adding strainers on both sides as I stock all the tanks. Other strainers are sold as replacement parts and for pond use but again these are the cheapest option I've found.










Another addition on the bottom row is a valve to regulate the return flow needed to disrupt the surface film. I simply drilled a hole smaller than the fitting on these adjustable air valves and then forced it into the pipe. This also acts as a siphon brake when the sump pump is shut down when using a submerged return from the sump. 


































The center tank has a breeding pair of LFABN.
The end tank where the water returns from the sump is a grow out for the little veggie munchers. Bare bottom for maintenance/cleaning.
The spraybar placed vertically creates flow that moves debris back to the siphon piping making cleanup very easy. 

These fish have the best fins I have seen on Ancistrus 
(glad I have them :biggrin Adults average 5" with the tails being 2" of that measurement. Unlike the common Pleco that outgrows almost all tanks these are a great fit in most tanks (imo).


































Top Plant Row









Bottom Fish Row









The frogbit you see in these tanks is how I regulate light intensity and serves as a food source. My LFABN don't bother the plants in my aquariums, not even the Amazon Swords but they love frogbit almost as much as zucchini. :smile: (free food) This picture is after a single night in the fry tank with 38 fish. Two loaded Pleco screws and algae pellets were in the tank and they still worked over the frogbit leaves.










With moss placed in the sump under a 6500k Spiral Power Saver Bulb this is a 7 tank rack (8 w/plants) and flow is provided by 2 pumps totaling less than a 30watt power load. :icon_cool

Drawback: with all the water falling and spayed into each tank it sounds like a small waterfall or a creek is running through the Florida Room but we like it so far. (hides the motor sound from the hot tube)


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That is awesome. I won't be doing that though, as that would quickly flood my house as I am very accident prone.:hihi:

That is way cool though. Did you figure out what plants you are going to put in there?


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I agree it is awesome and a lot of ingenuity, I only have a single tank and I made my plumbing with a vertical spray bar that's 28 inches tall for circulation from top to bottom eliminating any dead spots and it also has one hole above the water line for surface scum and I find the trickle pleasing.

Using the air valves on the spraybar is a good idea.

I've been studying your LFABNP and like every thing about them but the length of the name, the frog bit is good info for free food. I like to keep floaters in my tank anyway I like the way it breaks up the light kinda like cloud cover rolling through and I think it makes the fish more a ease with a ceiling, right now mine is covered with Ricca pods and shrimp love hang'n out in them.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks guys



cableguy69846 said:


> Did you figure out what plants you are going to put in there?


So far starters in place:
Pogostemon helferi, downoi
Hemianthus callitrichoides, dwarf baby tears(can't keep it down (growl))
Limnophila aromatica
Lindernia rotundifolia 'Variegated'
Dwarf saggitaria
and a single Cryptocoryne cordata 'Rosanervig'
Sadly all the red stems I received vanished.
I had a box that was just loaded with stuff come to me before vacation but most of it failed. 

Crypts and I seem to do well together so I'll probaby have an eye towards finding more. Moss needed for the sump tank too already have java.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Mike, for the pogostemon, keep the floaters to a minimum in that tank. When they get more than 1/4 full on my 15, the downoi seems to start getting leggy and looses lower leaves. So sad on all the red plants. Want some more to try? Also, you could look at the floating baby tears as a way to get them to grow faster. :wink:

Thanks so much for the detailed setup pictures, that is amazing. The trickling noise would drive me mad, though. I am seriously impressed with this setup.


----------



## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

wow mike. very impressive. your linking of tanks is ingenious.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks for catching that on the weeds Sara :smile: I should have put the more light demanding in the end end tank under the spraybar but rushed everything before leaving. With the tanks being brand new dirt and me new to sand planting I wish I had more time here before leaving for a full 2 weeks. The photo period is much longer now too, (I kno that doesn't make up for weak or shaded) I didn't get things right before leaving and the handful I left in a pan didn't do well at all with only room lighting either.

While it's great the explanation was clear enough to make sense surely many others have done something like this and I just haven't seen it. 
I was simply driven originally to it by the adage "the solution to pollution is dilution" and a need to adapt what I had at the time. 

Set this up in January this year for the veggie munchers.
Following another spawn I setup the first pleco pan.










Started doing 'daisy chained' tanks to protect babies while maintaining stable water parameters without the daily water changes. 
Here is an older pic of my 1st refugium after it was moved into the office in 2008. 
LMAO! I was still using the Flourish fert line when these pics were taken.
Trying to test Fe levels with cheap test kits too Bwahahaha! 
I was such a complete newbie.


















My first batch of angel fry were protected in a breeder basket hung from the rim of the tank similar to what D did with his attempt to save a group within a community tank. The group was then split into two baskets as they grew. No preparation for that successful breeding or time to cycle a new tank. The 10g was a huge improvement and being added onto the existing tank was instantly ready for critters with exactly the same water parameters as the source tank. 
I simply built upon the idea based on that success and experience. Guess I see this as simply fine tuning an old 'in a pinch' idea LOL. Currently my focus is reducing the electrical foot print of multiple tanks and this does that great too. 
I have 28 pictures on the old hosting site that I can't even access anymore.
My crappy well water made me look at many options before assembling my RO system LOL.

If water noise bothers you Sara ya better do flooded drains for sure on a sump LOL.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

wkndracer said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> 
> So far starters in place:
> ...


Not a bad plant list. I have some crypt wendtii 'red' that is throwing out runners in my 10 gallon, if you want a couple at some point. I also have a ton of moss that I just got, but if you want some moss, Chad is the guy to go to. He sent me Taiwan, Christmas, and Peacock moss, and Fissidend, Pellia, and Mini Pellia along with some didiplis diandra and some Aponotogen plants for a good price. I am going to get some Java Fern and, I think Rose moss and mini Rose moss from him next week. He gave me a really good price too. The peacock moss and x-mas moss were baseball sized clumps almost. My point in all that, is if you are looking for some variety, he is your guy to talk to. I am pretty sure he works with a lot of Crypts too, but you would have to ask him what he has.

Some days I hate HC. It is a pain to keep it in the substrate until it has a good root system. I just started burying half the plant to keep it down and that seemed to work well. Once it gets more leaves above the surface of the sand, it should take off like crazy.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

I moved the remaining downoi plants (3) under the spraybar so no shading from floaters now. I broke the stem base on one but the other two had a good root system starting. A couple of other stems survived but are stunted and lacking color so I'm not sure what remain but being here I can now up the light. Adding water column ferts, excel in small doses and monitoring for algae that I couldn't do running outta here to the hills when I first set it up.


----------



## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

sorry if i missed it, what plants do you have in there?


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

orchidman said:


> sorry if i missed it, what plants do you have in there?


hahaha it's a couple posts up (2) quoted by cable


----------



## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

ahh nice list! sounds great! cant wait to see some pics of the plants


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> The trickling noise would drive me mad,---


Finally got around to more plumbing today and silence follows as the result so this update is Sara's. :hihi:

The Eshopps overflow I purchased was sized WAY over the flow required for my tank. I bought it because #1 it was on sale and #2 it had two bulkheads for discharge to the sump (the main reason). 
When I installed it the stock stand pipes and sponges had been thrown in a parts bucket and schedule 20 thin wall PVC replacements installed. One is longer than the other and remains dry unless a problem arises (safety).
A 1" ball valve has been installed on the drain that has the shorter stand pipe so the flow can be tuned to match the flow provided by the weir.
Globe valves are better for flow control but in this application without wear that occurs under pressure situations ball valves work just fine. 
With the flow matched the drain piping is now flooded and silent. What the pump pushes up outta the sump is matched to what can drain back, silence, no gurgle, no splash, no sound of a constantly flushing toilet :hihi:

Should that drain become blocked with **** and debris when the water level in the weir and drain box rises the second stand pipe takes over well before the tank could ever flood (safety).

Silent and more or less flood proofed :smile:


















On another note the winter sun is far enough south that I'm getting direct afternoon sunlight in the end tanks. 

















anyone following my threads that wants some duckweed free frogbit I now have tons of it after carefully screening it from one tank and batch to the next until it was cleared of the tiny devil plant. Great shade plant and many fish munch on it as a free food source. Easily controlled and removed later if you decide to remove it. Floaters are one key to starting new dirt tanks and dodging algae issues (imo).


























:fish:


----------



## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

someone should get like a strainer of floaters and use them when starting. then remove it hassle free


----------



## Krystal907 (Oct 31, 2011)

I've always been kind of interested in frogbit and my betta likes floaty plants. How much for shipping to WA?
_Woops, apparently WA doesn't allow European frogbit, but not sure on Amazon Frogbit. I will learn me some and find out!
Well, nothing on Amazon frogbit, and people have bought it at the store, so I guess its ok?_

Also, I absolutely love and envy what you are doing. Your BN are amazing looking and my dream is to grow plants like you are to sell/trade/use them someday. I am having SUCH a hard time not getting into this all at once and waiting till May when I get a more permanent residence. Keep updating us because I love reading about what you are doing!!!


----------



## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

YOU ARE THE MAN RACER!!!!

Awesome setup, pics, and explanations too! Thanks for the advice on the floaters for starting a dirt tank! It will be a little bit longer till I can flood the 40B, so no need for floaters now, but I will be hollering at ya soon! I HOPE!!!

How is the Elbow? Hopefully healing well!!!

Take Care Bud, and keep up with the AWESOME , as usual, WORK!!!
Drew


----------



## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Great thread 'racer... I'm trying to get through them all this weekend 

I have a few comments/ questions.

1) Regarding floaters, the best one that I have ever tried is Salvinia auriculata. Then again, I've never had access to Frogbit. But the Salvinia is extremely prolific, relatively small in size so it still lets some light through, and easy to scoop out. It doesn't tend to do well with a lot of flow, IME. You may want to give it a try, if you haven't yet.

2) I appreciate the time you have taken to try to explain your plumbing setup. I know it would be time consuming, but a video would be freaking awesome. My puny little brain just can't grasp exactly how this works. Just a suggestion...:red_mouth

3) On page two you comment about the need (or lack thereof) to strain soil. Can you clarify as to what your current stance is?

4) Love the pleco pics.


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

You are insane................WOWWWWWWWWWW


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for that last post, Mike. I think I finally understand how it works. That will help with the sump I plan to build in the future. How are the plants doing now for you?


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Krystal907 said:


> I've always been kind of interested in frogbit and my betta likes floaty plants. How much for shipping to WA?
> _Woops, apparently WA doesn't allow European frogbit, but not sure on Amazon Frogbit. I will learn me some and find out!
> Well, nothing on Amazon frogbit, and people have bought it at the store, so I guess its ok?_
> 
> Also, I absolutely love and envy what you are doing. Your BN are amazing looking and my dream is to grow plants like you are to sell/trade/use them someday. I am having SUCH a hard time not getting into this all at once and waiting till May when I get a more permanent residence. Keep updating us because I love reading about what you are doing!!!


Thank you! and when your ready plz ask away. I'm happy to share anything I have. Plants grow, fish multiply. 
I use USPS priority shipping and the small box works great for plants.
Cost for me to have about $1.50 over the cost of actual shipping and paypal fees to cover the bags, tape etc, is $7.00 shipped.


BoxxerBoyDrew said:


> How is the Elbow? Hopefully healing well!!!
> Drew


Everyday the light gets closer (I hope) thanx Drew


jart said:


> Great thread 'racer... I'm trying to get through them all this weekend
> 
> I have a few comments/ questions.
> 
> ...


1) Salvinia auriculata unfortunately is a 'bad plant' LOL but I do have some. My fish only eat the frogbit so that's why I preference that one. 
3) Screening is still a waste of materials (imo). Larger organics (tree bark) is just time release ferts for later, might as well use it. Bacteria eating through it is free CO2 also so why not? 
4) thank you :biggrin:

2) well ,,, maybe LOL


green_valley said:


> You are insane................WOWWWWWWWWWW


haha thats not what the Doctors said,,, and the voices in my head agreed. 


sewingalot said:


> How are the plants doing now for you?


8 maybe 9 types made the transition (singles or pairs). brown algae on the glass in a light film but I can still see through it and it hasn't been cleaned since setting it up. May go to a 4 bulb fixture. Tanks have had 2 WC's of about 40% since filled. Moving the three downoi under the spray helped. The little plants while small have good color and look 'perky.

Added fish and shrimp last week (bug control)


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Did 50% plus water changes no issues at all with the longer siphon pipes.
Dirt and blasting grit cap working great and no burps.
I even wiped off the glass on the upper tank group LOL


















Cryptocoryne cordata 'Rosanervig' is my prize plant out here at the moment.
It had a crazy journey into the tank and proved to me if you don't freeze or boil our water weeds they are tough plants. 
Two new leaves already and a starter stem of some sort. 

















Upper tanks left to right.


















#2 pigmy or dwarf chain swords from the LFS years ago and frogbit floaters along with a plant from sewing I need to ID









#3 more struggling plants from sewing and some crypts from Gordon









#4 small orphaned downoi and more I need to get off my butt and ID from sewing. 
Marigold Swordtails from TactusMortus (never left my feedback bud). Sent me some great shrimp and these awhile back. 
Buggers already spawned too.









Why I love Frogbit

















These guys are about ready to go.

























Life is good


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice tanks man. I just got a bunch of crypts from gordon too, and they are awesome. Need to convert them to emergent growth, but I am in no rush with them at the moment. That Rosanervig is amazing. If you get plantlets off of it, let me know. I will be glad to trade, or buy one or 2 from you.

Where those Ghost shrimp and guppies in the fifth pic? Or some other kind of shrimp?


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Everytime I see this, I am awed! Although I must admit when I see the "big" picture, I cringe a little - because I want to curl up with a book in a big overstuffed chair in that corner between the windows! lol
When I see this, I think "I can do this! I can do this!" then I realize I can't LOL. All that plumbing just looks like math in my head. I hate math.
A question on frogbit - is it sensitve to surface turbulence like dwarf water lettuce? I can't keep any dwl alive in the tank I'm using a powerhead/sponge combo - because there isn't enough calm surface area. (it's a little 29g). I love the roots on dwl (and I see on frogbit, too). I can float wisteria or something for light diffusion, but I miss those dainty roots...
Wish I could have a small pleco in the tanks too (since I have so much driftwood), but I'm afraid they'd rasp the Drilok right off my stryo backgrounds...I can't find any posts by DIYers on that possibility...


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Oh, and since I like to copy you, I just stuck some java ferns around my powerhead sponge - it looks good!


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It looks like it's working good and it looks good too, I'm still amazed at how those Plecos eat that frogbit, and now every time someone post a photo and ask what kind of nutrient makes my plants have holes in the leaves, I can ask "do you have a pleco in the tank" 

I gotta bunch of stuff to do like install the rest of my plumbing so I can dump my water in the front yard flower bed by turning a ball valve and on the other side I need to hook up my RO/DI unit and holding tank, plus a little nano coming this Sunday, and I waiting for the Petco dollar per gallon sale so I can build a rack and buy some plecos and frogbit from you, so I can have my own little water cooled chainsaws.


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Speaking of the Petco sale - won't they have another before Christmas? I've been hoping so - I need another 55.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*quickie*

Letting things grow in a complete mess. 
Having too many plants and being lazy things have gone emerged in the last tank. 
Bacopa flowering again with about 7 stems having a dozen purple blooms.



































got weeds? got fish? must be a planted tank LOL


----------



## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

very nice flowers!

you must have more humidity or something because everytime WS breaks the surface for me, it dries up the next day, or maybe my lights are too hot.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Wow man. Glad to see some success with the rack. Keep it up man.:icon_smil

P.S. - How is the arm doing, and are back to work yet?


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

D, I think the WS does have more humidity here on the enclosed porch. More than my other tanks because it wilts here too. Those bulbs are 4"off the tank and don't get hot to the touch either. 

Hey Cable! Arms better but not great. Doc wants a second chance in there but I need to be back at work SOON! Can't do another 4 months healing and keep my job. It's MMI and passing a fitness for duty test soon for me.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

wkndracer said:


> D, I think the WS does have more humidity here on the enclosed porch. More than my other tanks because it wilts here too. Those bulbs are 4"off the tank and don't get hot to the touch either.
> 
> Hey Cable! Arms better but not great. Doc wants a second chance in there but I need to be back at work SOON! Can't do another 4 months healing and keep my job. It's MMI and passing a fitness for duty test soon for me.


Ouch man. Hope it works out for you. Good luck with the fitness test and all that man. Hope you get back to work soon. And if you need to get rid of any plants, let me know. Or if you need/ want any plants, let me know. Lol.


----------

