# ADa 60p NON CO2/no excel either for 046 Zebra plecos



## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Wow, I really like where this is going. Zebras are some of my favorite fish, but I'll just have to enjoy them precariously through this tank. They're a bit out of my price range 

Are you maybe going to try something like a Philodendron or Pothos growing along the top branches? That would help bring some welcome shade into the tank, I guess.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That stand is amazing. I wish I lived near jnaz now.


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Looks like you took some inspiration from Senske


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> It shall be planted, but not quite what you expect.
> Mostly from the top, hence the wood and branches up high, and above the water. I want to see the Zebras, and that will not happen in a fully planted tank.


at $300.00 a pop, i'd want to see the fish too!!! 

i think those are the tallest light bars i've ever seen. i suppose they need to be pretty tall though. who would have thought to use a 4x24w tek fixture over a low tech tank. nice work! can't wait to see it with fish and plants.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

bigstick120 said:


> Looks like you took some inspiration from Senske


No, there's no plants in there.
The wood chosen looks better for the overall display, in other words, it's not done. The tank above, is.

The rational for the light bars being 6.5 ft is due to the added ability to reduce the light intensity. They also place the lighting much farther away from the statement, which is the tank/contents.

Less distracting........

I am going to work some plants onto the wood, this will act as a garden above and at the interface, a bit like a paludarium.

Also, all my other lights are the same height, consistant.
I'll slowly work to all T5's as well.

I'll likely only use 2x 24w, no need for emergents and higher light.
Also, since they are emergents, the light needs to be another 20' higher.

Makes a nice look in the entry way when you walk in and come home at night.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

Looking good! How many zebra's are you going to put in there?


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

plantbrain said:


> No, there's no plants in there.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


OH, so they dont look similar to you? I didnt say copied, I said inspiration. 
You should have been to aquafest, zebras for 150-125 real nice looking fish


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

THis is gonna be really cool. It already looks great. 

I really like the idea of an artistically-rendered setup that showcases a cool fish--you don't see that very often. I can't wait the see that big gang of plecos in there.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Moe said:


> Looking good! How many zebra's are you going to put in there?


Have 8, I've kept them from fry 1/2" or less, they are now a tad over inch.

I'll add another 2-3 for genetic diversity.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

bigstick120 said:


> OH, so they dont look similar to you? I didnt say copied, I said inspiration.
> You should have been to aquafest, zebras for 150-125 real nice looking fish


Having never seen it till you posted it, I cannot say "inspiration" either

No, I do not think they look similar, .....the wood comes from the top, rather from below(like a flooded forest vs some branches that fell into the water along the side of stream).

Both have their own different aesthetics.
This guy did a good job with the from above aesthetic:
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8030

My inspiration actually comes from being underwater and looking at ecosystems. The other stuff, much more Amano and and general FOLKS keeping ADA style tanks(stands, light bars, lily pipes etc). 

I have plants planned for this and the concept is specific.
Mostly tiny and pinninate leaf plants floating on top, providing shade and cover for the fish, white grain sand to lighten up and accent fish/clean look, the wood is there to capture the floating island, much like a snag does in a river.

The wood also provides the caves while allowing me to view the fish, so it serves a very different role in several aspects. It ties several elements together and provides habitat for several trophic levels.

125-150$ for 046's are good prices for decent sized fish.
Nice fish, but few seem to have nice colonies and nice displays together that are designed around them. They are not well suited for large tanks, a 60p is about the largest I'd keep them in.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

hydrophyte said:


> THis is gonna be really cool. It already looks great.
> 
> I really like the idea of an artistically-rendered setup that showcases a cool fish--you don't see that very often. I can't wait the see that big gang of plecos in there.


My other tanks also incorporate my love of the plecos.
I have 11 lepoard frogs in the Brass tetra tank, I chose very old bald cypress, then made natural looking caves for each of them.

I've had to redo my 180, damn plecos keep attacking HC, cannot grow it no matter what, they maul it.

All is not lost, I added a large pleco cave in the rear.
Am experimenting with several different foreground plants.
Downoi works very well, Blyxa, but it's too tall for a foreground really.
Dwarf hygros, Stauryogone etc round leaf is very nice, Tennellus is fine if you get it going well prior to adding them. Anubias petite works well and looks good contrasted against Blyxa.

HC/Gloss/Utric/E triandra all have met painful deaths no matter how hard. Without the fish, they do well and grow in, as soon as I add them back, the mauling begins.

Riccia/moss got mauled.

Most of my tanks are fish based, not plant based.

Catfish, followed by behavior are king.

For the ADA 60p, I want to keep with the smaller tank theme and use the HC to tie the Narrow leaf emergent water sprite into a mat, with Anubias petite and perhaps a few other species. I'll just spray them rather than add ferts to the water column(fertigation). Nutrients will be kept to a min in the water, high O2, current etc, but still many benefits from plants and nice look when you walk into the house.

By using small leaves/dainty fronds, it makes the eye focus closer and look into the small scene.

Zebras are not large fish, mine are total piggies, so they will get good size in a year or so. I feed mostly a stick based fed and then frozen brine and baby live brine.

Thinking about cherry shrimp but they tend not to eat them, and the shrimp might go after the Zebra fry. CRS also, this tank would make an excellent system for them.

Too bad I like these fish a lot more than any invert.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I think it's safe to say that if anything, Senske would take inspiration from Tom. Tom you are the master, and I can't wait to see this in its full glory! 

Subscribed.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Church said:


> I think it's safe to say that if anything, Senske would take inspiration from Tom. Tom you are the master, and I can't wait to see this in its full glory!
> 
> Subscribed.


Has this place become Fox News?
It's not about who got what from who, or who is the master etc, never was.
That is asking for an imagined, created conflict that was never there to begin with :wink:

Jeff has been around a long time and does awesome work. 
Jeff's work speaks for itself. 

An older tank that I had some of the idea from which I did:










But the general idea was I wanted a non CO2 tank, at least one for old time's sake. I can still use plants, but do not need to restrict their CO2 either.

It is not really a Paludarium either. The aquarium is full of water.
No dry "land", the wood snags, floating islands etc, are not land.
They move with the water level seasonally.

Much more Biological inspiration, ecology and habitat.
Which is something Amano suggest folks look to for their inspiration.
I think Jeff would agree to that as well.
Why follow when you can find your own path?

Is that not the point?:icon_idea

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## HoustonFishFanatic (Apr 13, 2007)

bigstick120 said:


> Looks like you took some inspiration from Senske


Not a Senske/ ADG tank or scape. This tank was at Houston Aquarium Warehouse owned by Daniel.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Like it or not, Tom, many people think of you as a master. That's the price you pay for being so damn good at what you do. 

I can't wait to see some zebra plecos! 

On a related note, I just wanted to say thanks for those distance shots, so that we can see all the other tanks scattered around your house.


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## Ashok (Dec 11, 2006)

Looking forward to seeing this tank progress.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Church said:


> Like it or not, Tom, many people think of you as a master. That's the price you pay for being so damn good at what you do.


Tom, I believe Church as well as many others just know that you bring and introduced critical thinking to the hobby in a widespread fashion. You ask why , when, how, correlation, causation ask about the science, statistical data so on and so forth. Not to mention you are very generous with your time and help anyone at any given time.

Jeff holds his own and and is a giant in his own right however Tom you are very analytical and outspoken. By the way, that's a good thing.

Dude it's a compliment... whether you like it or not, you're stuck with it! :wink:

Dan


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Heya Tom,

How about some more inspiration?

http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanes...+<em>Hypancistrus+zebra</em>The+Perfectionist

http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanes...for+<em>Hypancistrus+zebra</em>The+Rest+of+Us


This guy does some amazing things with stone. 



I like the floating mat-snag concept as well; it's the way to go with fish display aquaria. I'm looking forward to seeing this setup completed.

Regards,
Phil


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## jazzlvr123 (Jul 16, 2007)

so why did you decide on the 60p rather than your original idea for the 60 cube? after you put all that time into adding holes into that cypress. Just curious, Regards Kyle


edit
found my answer: "Nice fish, but few seem to have nice colonies and nice displays together that are designed around them. They are not well suited for large tanks, a 60p is about the largest I'd keep them in."


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

FWIW, here's the Senske tank everyone was thinking of...

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=1&p=0

I think _this_ tank will be much more interesting with the emersed plant groupings and Zebra Plecos. Can't wait to see it stocked and planted!


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

I believe this is a dream tank for a lot of us (then again, having as many tanks as you have in your house would be a dream for many of use as well!) 

Friends and I here in Taiwan are very interested as we have considered the same idea (a pleco only tank to slow off the species), though find the tank not that visually appealing without many plants - meaning the fish are hidden. Though at approx $200 US a fish , it L046 are out of my reach, the same could be done with L236 ("fake" Zebras) or L134 (Leopard Frog Plecos - Tan and Black)


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

jazzlvr123 said:


> so why did you decide on the 60p rather than your original idea for the 60 cube? after you put all that time into adding holes into that cypress. Just curious, Regards Kyle
> 
> 
> edit
> found my answer: "Nice fish, but few seem to have nice colonies and nice displays together that are designed around them. They are not well suited for large tanks, a 60p is about the largest I'd keep them in."


The fish are much more suited to smaller systems.
They'd get lost in a large tank.
I'd want to add more fish and they'd have trouble finding the food.

Larger tanks are more for community based themes for myself as an aquarist.

I suppose if I had 15 large full sized adults, then the 60 cube is good.
But they are still pretty small(1"-1.5"). Be another year or two I'd say before any chance of breeding.

I'm getting a custom nice clean beveled pair of 60 cubes and then the ADA stands like this tank in the next 2 months. Both will have wet/drys and no holes this time, Eco tech wavemakers etc(already got these the other day).

Maybe the zebras will end up there later.
I have 11 Leopard frog plecos in there now and 80 Brass tertas.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Phil Edwards said:


> Heya Tom,
> 
> How about some more inspiration?
> 
> ...


Yes, I saw this rock scape years ago, it's well known.
Good color and textures. A lot of DIY involved.

The floating snag idea takes me back to the my first aquarium with pklants actually.

I used water sprite and some rocks and the current from the Supreme Aquamaster filter (You have to be old to know what this filter is, it was way cool for me at that age to have this, I later got a n Aquaking!) to do a similar thing. Folks loved it.

Bred Malawian cichlids, water sprite grew like mad, I supplied the town for years.

Never really though of my self as a planted person.
Just thought the plants looked good, cleaned the water, gave the fish something to eat etc.

So it's a bit full circle.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

BTW, I redid a 350 Gal tank yesterday and used this same sediment. Looks really nice.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I have about 100 RCS in the 60 P right now and the sprite is growing in with the moss. 

I might need less light and will raise it up higher I think.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This tank is going to be really great. When do we get to see more pictures? :bounce:

I am thinking about a catfish species tank, maybe with _Synodontis petricola_. That one is really cool and I can keep several in the 30-gallon tank that I have in mind, but I am waiting to hear more opinions.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Seriously, this is probably one of my favorite tanks on these forums, and it's barely even begun! I wish I could afford (and trust myself to raise!) these unique plecos. Some day, some day...


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## davocean (Oct 11, 2009)

Very clean looking system, will be following this myself.
Jealous of the leopard frogs, can't seem to find those locally right now.
So this will be strictly Zebras?


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> An older tank that I had some of the idea from which I did:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really love this tank, what types of plants did you have in that pic? I love them!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Hey Tom, I have a 30 C that doesn't have co2, and hasn't since I rescaped it months ago, but it's a small tank.

This is a really neat concept you have here. I like the scape a lot, and am looking forward to seeing more pictures


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## Holy Samosa (Nov 3, 2009)

Beautiful. Is the driftwood Manzanita?


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

I think this will be the tank I will be waiting the longest for updates.
How has the progress been going?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Lookin' good, Tbarr!




hydrophyte said:


> I really like the idea of an artistically-rendered setup that showcases a cool fish--you don't see that very often.


Not here you don't, but this isn't a fish forum. The top-shelf setups at cichlidforum and everywhere else are just stunning.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Zebras are finally in.
100 RCS as well........

I do not like the water sprite as much as I'd thought.
It'll be using more xmas moss, HC, Anubias and a "darker" feel.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Can't wait to see the Zebras in the tank!


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

And the wait continues


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

And 










Fish are in there but hide.
100? CRS are also in there.
Bolbitus is growing without any CO2/Excel etc.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Sweet! Are you going to be leaving the front portion of the tank unshaded like that? I was just wondering because it seems really bright at the substrate level.

I love love LOVE this tank and can't wait to see it evolve!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Nice! Are all 4 bulbs burning?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

roybot73 said:


> Nice! Are all 4 bulbs burning?


No, just 2.
4 is way too much.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Church said:


> Sweet! Are you going to be leaving the front portion of the tank unshaded like that? I was just wondering because it seems really bright at the substrate level.
> 
> I love love LOVE this tank and can't wait to see it evolve!


White sand is why, it's not that dark in person.
the tank looks weird if you it got covered, and there's less flow since it would block the return.

I want to cover the returns with the plants and have the plants train up the poles and cover other equipment. And it will in due time. Might take a year or so, but it's not a rush job.

I'm still somewhat playing with plant choices, and seeing what will look nice and work in the tank.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## mykoe817 (Jan 20, 2005)

It looks amazing! Hope they come out of hiding soon.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

mykoe817 said:


> It looks amazing! Hope they come out of hiding soon.


No, they never do.

They might move a bit here and there, but they park it unde rthe wood,rocked etc.

I can see them fine, but they do not make for a nice pic as they are dark in the corner.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I lost 2 Zebras after I did a water change and refilled it up higher than the top lip of the Lily pipe.

Even with a non CO2 tank, a Rena XP 3(300-350gph) and a water change, the O2 dropped. Typically I leave a little below the lily pipe to add surface movement, after the CRS multiplied and the plants grew in a little, the O2 was dangerously low. Well, so low I nearly lost them all, saved the other 7 fish.

I'm so stupid.

Anyway, I'm 110% done with lily pipes.
I like current and high O2 levels.
They are terrible to clean, and adjust and ofter either .......noisy degassing grugle, or no O2.

Yes, you can adjust them, but evaporation and being able to wander away for a day or two without messing with it seems a joke. Heck of way to learn how really little O2 they add with surface movement if you add just another 1/2" or even less water.

I'm pissed, I had grown those fish up from 1/2" babies to about 1.5" over a year of pampering.

Hard lesson to learn, but everyone does, no matter how careful and good you think you might be, Murphy will get you.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

So sorry to hear about your losses. That's such a shame.
Tom, If you're so done with lily pipes what are the alternatives? I mean in terms of minimal intrusion into the scape? I personally can't stand the green of eheim pipes and spray bars leave me cold. :/


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

garuf said:


> So sorry to hear about your losses. That's such a shame.
> Tom, If you're so done with lily pipes what are the alternatives? I mean in terms of minimal intrusion into the scape? I personally can't stand the green of eheim pipes and spray bars leave me cold. :/


"Loc line" has long been my fav.

Not clear etc, but infinitely adjustable.

The other issue is redundancy which I add on most tanks anyway.
This being a smaller tank, I thought with a good larger reliable filter like the XP3, I could get away with out some added flow from another source.

I can still hide the small powerhead and snake a tube to give the flow desired.
But there's just some much you can do with a set piece of glass and cleaning the intake stinks to say the least, I always fear I'm going to break the darn thing taking on/off, or moving it or worse.........cut the bejesus out of my hand, even when using a towel to prevent just that type of slip/breakage.

Since this tank is emergent growth mostly anyway, such intake tubes can easily be hidden also.

That was the plan anyway, even with the lily pipes.

I'm none to pleased over time with the lily pipes.
Broke one set a while back when I barely tapped it. These cost me 500$ worth of fish loss. Poor adjustment abilities. Not good for O2.

Some user error certainly, but there should not be user error, never had this issue with other returns ever. Sucker got me and that led to dead fish in only a few hours(4-5?). Glad I did not lose them all.

Redundant engineering, making things more fool proof and less likely to fail.
Hard lessons, but it's why I suggest water changes, good general care to others, good current etc. But even there, I get nailed like anyone else from time to time. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Sorry about the Zebras, that's rough!

They aren't eating the shrimp, as far as you can tell?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Loc line, the stuff used on reefs? Looks like a fluval outlet?

Hmm, I run as large a filter as I can get my hands on these days because I've seen the results of extra flow with my own eyes and can't see myself going back. I hate adding things to the tank that take from the scape, big black boxes to add flow when I can add a large filter troubles me. 

Am I right in thinking a filter gives a high pressure output and what the best result is low pressure? if so, is there a way other than eductors that would produce that?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Nice tank, and I can sympathize with you Tom. I overfilled my 15 gallon breeder where I was growing out a blue phantom (L128) and it died overnight. I am using a 2213 with a spraybar in the setup. I was very sad, as it was the sole survivor of a group of 3 I got at 1.5" and had it for close to 4 months. I've since then raised the spray bar as high as it will go. Maybe I'll mod it and use locline like you like to do Tom.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

lauraleellbp said:


> Sorry about the Zebras, that's rough!
> 
> They aren't eating the shrimp, as far as you can tell?


No:angryfire

Wish they would.
I've netted out about 100 or so since the tank's been set up need to remove another 50.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

The general consensus on Planetcatfish is that hypans will not eat live shrimp, only after they are dead. I asked about this recently before deciding to get some L066 in my planted tank with Amanos.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> No:angryfire
> 
> Wish they would.


LOL

You're probably spoiling them... why should they work? :icon_mrgr


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## lopez_316us (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey can you take some pictures of the zebras please!!!!

I really like those guys and I don't se them often. I'll love to see yours.

Thanks,


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

2wheelsx2 said:


> The general consensus on Planetcatfish is that hypans will not eat live shrimp, only after they are dead. I asked about this recently before deciding to get some L066 in my planted tank with Amanos.


CRS are much less aggressive and smaller than Amanos.
But I'd agree overall, they do not eat or are able to capture live shrimps/decopods.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

lauraleellbp said:


> LOL
> 
> You're probably spoiling them... why should they work? :icon_mrgr


The two that died and the others did breathing OT:angryfire

Not now.

They did well in my 60 Cube in the isolation net.
Not as happy as in the 10 Gal hyper flow bare bottom tank I think.
They all have fat bellies.

Shrimp eat their food as well, so they both get fat and grow well.
I might get a few more, I need some genetic variation anyway from other stock.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

May I ask why you don't use an AIR pump on your tank. With a fish so sensitive to oxygen levels and clean water why don't you pump in oxygen? Isn't that the common approach? Most people I know who raise Zebra or other rare plecos always have AIR PUMPS running at all time, and even with my not so rare plecos, L018, L333, L264, etc. I pump in AIR along with frequent water changes and good filtration. Is there a reason why you chose to rely on flow only to increase oxygen level?


(edited to fix mistakes mentioned in post #61)


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

Sorry about the loss. Sucks. I recently lost an angel I've had for years, from CO2 overdose, stupid of me...not paying attention after cranking it up, just a little... 

Plants growing up the light chain I've also thought about. I thought some type of ivy. 

Tank is exceptional..different...a tank you can sit and stare at for hours. Can we see more pics, different angles?


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

can anyone answer my above question?


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## RianS (May 12, 2009)

I believe the only person that can answer your question is the owner of this tank himself.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

tcampbell said:


> May I ask why you don't use an oxygen pump on your tank. With a fish so sensitive to oxygen levels and clean water why don't you pump in oxygen? Isn't that the common approach? Most people I know who raise Zebra or other rare plecos always have oxygen running, and even with my not so rare plecos, L018, L333, L264, etc. I pump in Oxygen along with frequent water changes and good filtration. Is there a reason why you chose to rely on flow only to increase oxygen level?


For starters, it is an AIR pump, not oxygen. There is a difference. A huge difference. Second, air pumps add oxygen to the water by creating surface turbulence. The bubbles you see in the tank do very little(without super fine diffusion, like from a co2 diffuser, air stones do not break up bubbles much to get them to dissolve in the water). Any form of surface turbulence is equal to this. You need not have an air pump if you have surface agitation from a filter or powerhead.


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

I apologize for the mistake, yes I mean an air pump. I realize that the purpose of using an air pump is not the bubbles them selves, though people often add it for this purpose, but rather for the surface turbulance it creates.
However as Tom stated, with the Lily pipes, if you fill the tank past a certain level there is no surface turbulance creates and with fish such as plecos which require lightly oxygenated water, the added surface turbulance from the air pump.
Here in Taiwan with the heat and quick evaportation from the tanks, I often fill my tanks to within 1/2 ~ 1cm from the top though run an air pump, usually on a timer, to add surface turbulance and thus oxygen to the tanks.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

tcampbell said:


> I apologize for the mistake, yes I mean an air pump. I realize that the purpose of using an air pump is not the bubbles them selves, though people often add it for this purpose, but rather for the surface turbulance it creates.
> However as Tom stated, with the Lily pipes, if you fill the tank past a certain level there is no surface turbulance creates and with fish such as plecos which require lightly oxygenated water, the added surface turbulance from the air pump.
> Here in Taiwan with the heat and quick evaportation from the tanks, I often fill my tanks to within 1/2 ~ 1cm from the top though run an air pump, usually on a timer, to add surface turbulance and thus oxygen to the tanks.



_*I*_ knew what you meant. :icon_smil:icon_smil


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

jmhart said:


> _*I*_ knew what you meant. :icon_smil:icon_smil


*Me* too :icon_wink


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

I'm sure Tom is well schooled on bubblers. He was trying to make a very clean tank hardware wise, that is all. 

I'll point out that temp swings can create disasters when you have O2 sensitive fish. Especially when you get up to 70 and 80F water temp. Tom knows that too but he was fixated on getting that parsley to grow on top of the tank. 

I find it interesting that the plants are fine and the light is maybe 2' above the water?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I'm not as keen on the massive weedy growth of the Water sprite, some like it, but I'm after something a little bit more subtle, I hacked it way back, and I have to trim the roots about once a month.

Where I am going is more moss on branches and Anubias. I might train the pennywort on this as well. HC just started growing after being infested in some moss, so I will allow that to grow. Bolbitus looks decent emergent in another tank, but I like the Anubias better mixed with moss. Need to think more about other species to try that will give me a nice look and not end up with weedy roots everywhere.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

MoonFish said:


> ...I find it interesting that the plants are fine and the light is maybe 2' above the water?


What plants are on the substrate? 

BTW - Hack it back, but the contrast the water sprite makes with the anubias is really good.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

houseofcards said:


> What plants are on the substrate?
> 
> BTW - Hack it back, but the contrast the water sprite makes with the anubias is really good.


No plants are in the sediment.
The Water sprite grows really really fast.
I do hack it back and bend the fronds to keep it less just all over the place.
I guess I could start trimming it more though. Not like it is hard to do.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That water sprite is massive, but like you said, bolbitus could look really nice. And those lily pipes are horrendous


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Hacked the sprite back.










Moss is the "sediment", the pennywort is starting to take well, adds some more Anubias. HC is running in a few spots well. Will likely do away with the sprite perhaps, and want to get a serious Anubias colony of petite going, there's a lot more than you can see here.


Fish: 7 Zebras, 5 Gold nuggets, 7 Red faros, 50 Fire shrimp.
I'll remove the Nuggets coming up, the Red faros bred 2x and will be removed at some point also.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## boon (Mar 29, 2006)

Hey Tom, is there any specifics to growing Anubis emerse? I will also like to try it.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

boon said:


> Hey Tom, is there any specifics to growing Anubis emerse? I will also like to try it.


It does seem to dry out pretty easily in open top tanks. I guess you just gotta let it take its time to grow leaves that can handle the lower humidity.

Emersed hydrocotyle remind you of your old tank, Tom?
Looks great. Quite the lush tank you have growing out of the tank. Looks great.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

The pennywort does not grow as fast in this tank, but it's a low nutrient very high current tank.

This is a nutrient limited system.
That is the limiting factor here, not CO2 even though it is a non CO2/no excel tank.

Pennywort makes a good Nitrogen indicator also. It's pretty yellowy.

Anubias grows very easily as long as the roots are in the water, and there's moss etc for the water to be brought up via water tension. I have plenty of tanks where this occurs. The RH is about 40-15% here in the summer and these plants do fine and grow much faster than the submersed Anubias.
Takes some time for the moss to get well established, but then you can grow many things on it, sort of like sediment.

I prefer the darker branching look to the finer leaf water sprite overtaking the tank, the pennywort is a poorer competitor for Nitrogen, so it should rebound more. It's also easier to prune and deal with. 

Regards, 

Tom Barr


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## MissMTS (Oct 8, 2008)

Tom,

I absolutely love this tank. The simplicity of it is really refreshing, and really demonstrates how a low tech tank with no Excel and CO2 can be done nicely and look amazing. This tank has definitely given me some inspiration for my low tech setups 

Katie


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## ukamikazu (Jun 4, 2010)

A bump for the most original, awesome aquarium I have ever seen. Please, it's been almost 2 months now, another update please and show us the plecos, pretty please!

Absolutely stunning and elegant. I am truly inspired now. Thank you.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Plants are really really grown out. I'll post a new pic later this weekend.
Fish are getting fatter. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

MissMTS said:


> Tom,
> 
> I absolutely love this tank. The simplicity of it is really refreshing, and really demonstrates how a low tech tank with no Excel and CO2 can be done nicely and look amazing. This tank has definitely given me some inspiration for my low tech setups
> 
> Katie


Well, the tank can have as many water changes..............or not..........as you want.

If you do the water changes, then you'd better dose, particularly with Pennywort and water sprite, then are Nitrogen hungry plants.

You can dose very little say 1-2x a week............feed the fish heavy etc.
The other option is to spray the plants with a general fert once a week and just feed the fish well.

This way almost all the ferts hits the leaves above the water, and even less goes into the water. Note, this is also an ideal tank for shrimp and CRS's(but a too warm for CRS's, Zebras are warmer water fish, so not compatible).
Fire shrimp do well, even at 84F.

I keep the temp at 80-82F for most tanks, 78 for others.
CRS: 68-73F

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## ukamikazu (Jun 4, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> Well, the tank can have as many water changes..............or not..........as you want.
> 
> If you do the water changes, then you'd better dose, particularly with Pennywort and water sprite, then are Nitrogen hungry plants.
> 
> ...


How about this, and this is how I roll usually, and let's say I'm going to do one of my own in exactly 250 liters:

A general fertilizer like Seachem Flourish, 5 mL / 250 L twice a week, like the bottle says.

Say, a population of 18 brown pencilfish and 18 pygmy cories, fed well once a day.

48 watts of T5 HO, one bluish 10,000K bulb and a roseate bulb.

Monthly water change? Does that sound hands off enough?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

ukamikazu said:


> How about this, and this is how I roll usually, and let's say I'm going to do one of my own in exactly 250 liters:
> 
> A general fertilizer like Seachem Flourish, 5 mL / 250 L twice a week, like the bottle says.
> 
> ...


Sure, but feed them smaller amounts 2x a day if possible, or more.
Better yet, add an autofeeder. Set for 6x a day small feedings, that's plant food you are adding!!

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Tank is pretty easy to care for, I use a sponge prefilter on a Rena 3 that gets cleaned about once every 3 months. I'll pick off dead leaves, but it's easy since they grow out of the water, easy to get too, moss acts as the water conduit for higher growing plants.

There is a lot more Anubias than you can see.
I'm letting the pennywort and Water sprite take over a bit more.

The roots and the shoot of the water sprite are both trimmed, not just the leaves/stem/shoot.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Fish:










Zebras need new larger Bamboo, I likely will drill some out of manzy if I find the right pieces to better match the tank.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Amazing!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)




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## ukamikazu (Jun 4, 2010)

Very nice!

And that's all just being held together by the driftwood snag you created? Simple brilliance...

How are the babies doing?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Glad to see you traded in the water sprite for an anubias. Looks 10x better. Although I like the fern look of the sprite, it just got too big too fast. Have you ever tried any terrestrial ferns in a setup like this? Spleenwort or something along those lines would be very cool.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Anyone who wants to see what good "surface ripple" looks like, see the last photo above! As I recall, most of Tom's tanks have a similar amount of ripple. No splashing, but lots of water movement, which keeps the O2 content in the water high.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Guess I have to work on my surface agitation a bit.


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## mysticalnet (Dec 2, 2007)

more pictures of zebras please


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Gets better every time. A tank that never fails to inspire.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Bred Red Farowellas in this tank(there are 6 adults).

Spotted 3 fry, roughly 3/4" long, likely more.

L010a 

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=747

Nuggets and Zebras are a year or so away.
Need to check for the Leopard frogs in the 60 Gal I guess.
I also have bred Sturisoma aureum in a 350 Gal tank last week for a client.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=1167

Bummer...........all these folks claiming these ferts causing bad issues for fish. See how many of these same folks are breeding semi rare catfish?
Not many/any..........yawn, what new myths do you have?



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I'll get some more Zebra pics and some shrimp, also, I have some real nice Cladophora growing, took off, then died back, but since I've fed more, it's coming back more. The Terrestrial ferts spray seems to help for the emergent plants. Maybe both?

Anyway, it's quite lovely and non invasive in this tank. 
Pennywort has grown more since the last pics.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Make that 7 total fry found in this tank now.
About 3/4" inch long.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Beautiful tank and a great inspiration. I'm in the planning stages of a tank like this except without the rare fish. Definitely gonna us water sprite, it looked awesome


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## lrbs (Dec 1, 2009)

Really Inspiring...


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

Am I mistaken Tom, or weren't you against "silly pipes" at one point?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Really like the farlowellas I have been trying to track down some royals but pickins are pretty slim. I have ways been fascinated by their general structure, very elegant and fragile looking while also looking rough and rugged.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Update, as far as neat cats go, these guys are some of my favs:










I have 4 in a client's tank, looking for another 5-8 also.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Looks prehistoric. What is it?


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

What a tease! Where are the Zebra pics? Also, lets see some pics of that new tank in the background. :biggrin:


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You mean this tank:










Rimless starfire on all sides, nice ADA grade seams, ADA type stand, 48" long, 30" depth and 18' high?

Nawwww..........


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

Very nice Tom! Looks heavy though. I'm glad Jose helped you. :hihi:


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

antbug said:


> Very nice Tom! Looks heavy though. I'm glad Jose helped you. :hihi:


Ah the wonders of photo shop, the tank is not nice, it's really ugly, the pic make it look nicer than it really is. If Jose says otherwise, he 's a lair:hihi:


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Nice work! Looking forward to the new photoshop-enchanced tank!


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

How many tanks do you have up at this moment? Seems there is one against each wall in every room. Hobbyist paradise


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

That tank is awesome, Tom! My wife wants me to do one like that in a 20L... Not sure how I would be able to pull that off though. I think that the height of the tank and the DW make a huge deal. In a 20L I just don't see it working. Not like yours anyway.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Gotta find that nice piece of wood that pokes out and then moss the sucker good about 2" in and 2-3" out of the water.

Or slowly lower the water level for things like Anubias as their roots grow farther into the water.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

malaybiswas said:


> How many tanks do you have up at this moment? Seems there is one against each wall in every room. Hobbyist paradise


There are rooms where aquariums are off limits for many reasons, any bedroom, and the kitchen, anywhere near a TV. Computers? Nope, there's one right next to me.

I have a limit of 5 tanks in my home period.
Now the garage??? Well, no planted tanks, only shrimp and test, and quarantine tanks, no light etc. 5 small sponge tanks.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

So what kind of cat is that tom?


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> There are rooms where aquariums are off limits for many reasons, any bedroom, and the kitchen, anywhere near a TV. Computers? Nope, there's one right next to me.
> 
> I have a limit of 5 tanks in my home period.
> Now the garage??? Well, no planted tanks, only shrimp and test, and quarantine tanks, no light etc. 5 small sponge tanks.


Yeah, u guys in Cali have option to use the garage. Here it's either too cold or too hot.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

bsmith said:


> So what kind of cat is that tom?


Wicked eh?
I kept these about 20+ years ago........loved them.

They are sometimes called "circular" cats.
Likely due to the rounded nose.

Very active and love grubbing on the sand.
Easy on plants, hardy, and stay out in the open areas, unlike many species.
I have 4 in a client's 350 Gal. Would like to bred these. Bred 9 species of pleco family thus far.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Dempsey said:


> That tank is awesome, Tom! My wife wants me to do one like that in a 20L... Not sure how I would be able to pull that off though. I think that the height of the tank and the DW make a huge deal. In a 20L I just don't see it working. Not like yours anyway.


i was thinking of doing something like this for a 20 long i have as well. on the fence about it, but, like you, im not sure the 20L would be suitable either


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

How do you keep the emmersed growth from drying out as it transitions from underwater growth to out of water? Or did you just start with plants that were grown emmersed?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> Wicked eh?
> I kept these about 20+ years ago........loved them.
> 
> They are sometimes called "circular" cats.
> ...


A cat that stays out in the open. That's a rarity. I'm sure if you could breed them it wouldn't be hard to sell them. What is their max size and what do they run?

Speaking of breeding, check out the 183 journal in my sig. After about a year and a half, last Monday I was very happily suprised to see about 50 fry scattered all over the tank. Hopefully in a few months I'll be able to get some out to the forum members. Paying $20+ for wild caught 183's is crazy. They require such strict parameters to even survive that it puts keeping them out of reach for the normal hobbiest.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

bsmith said:


> A cat that stays out in the open. That's a rarity. I'm sure if you could breed them it wouldn't be hard to sell them. What is their max size and what do they run?
> 
> Speaking of breeding, check out the 183 journal in my sig. After about a year and a half, last Monday I was very happily suprised to see about 50 fry scattered all over the tank. Hopefully in a few months I'll be able to get some out to the forum members. Paying $20+ for wild caught 183's is crazy. They require such strict parameters to even survive that it puts keeping them out of reach for the normal hobbiest.


They get about 10" body, but the filaments can get as long as the fish.
They are not small fish.

They likely run about 30-40$.

Tanks like this non CO2 emergent submersed interface are ideal for many breeding tanks and can still look very good in the home.

You can add plenty of current, temp, whatever......
Most plecos tend to be high O2 critters. Which is likely why few planted CO2 folks bother with them. They kill them. There is a wide range of tolerance for CO2/O2 with the family.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

IWANNAGOFAST said:


> How do you keep the emmersed growth from drying out as it transitions from underwater growth to out of water? Or did you just start with plants that were grown emmersed?


Moss acts as a conduit from below to the above. Anubias can grow roots well over 1 ft also, and the roots pretty much just sit in the water etc, the leaves grow up top and fill in.

You can start with either, do not matter as the new growth fills in in either form.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> They get about 10" body, but the filaments can get as long as the fish.
> They are not small fish.
> 
> They likely run about 30-40$.
> ...


The 183 setup I have is quite acidic (ph well below 6) with all the drift wood, almond leaves and alder cones also water changes come by way is 100% straight RO water. I have two filters (2213 and 2217) with their spraybars breaking the surface for o2/water interface and there is a Hagen mini at the surface causing turbulence. Since the tank is kept at 84 it is very important to keep as much o2 in the water. 

Planet catfish is where I got the info that was used to get my cats to breed. I'm sure if there is any info on your cats that would be the place. If not their forum is quite productive since there are multiple international members that breed fish on there.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Moss acts as a conduit from below to the above. Anubias can grow roots well over 1 ft also, and the roots pretty much just sit in the water etc, the leaves grow up top and fill in.
> 
> You can start with either, do not matter as the new growth fills in in either form.


Plantbrain, do you know if the Moss can act as a conduit from frond to frond, or does part of the same frond have to be submersed to keep the other part moist?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

houseofcards said:


> Plantbrain, do you know if the Moss can act as a conduit from frond to frond, or does part of the same frond have to be submersed to keep the other part moist?


Capillary action will transfer it up pretty well.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

bsmith said:


> The 183 setup I have is quite acidic (ph well below 6) with all the drift wood, almond leaves and alder cones also water changes come by way is 100% straight RO water. I have two filters (2213 and 2217) with their spraybars breaking the surface for o2/water interface and there is a Hagen mini at the surface causing turbulence. Since the tank is kept at 84 it is very important to keep as much o2 in the water.
> 
> Planet catfish is where I got the info that was used to get my cats to breed. I'm sure if there is any info on your cats that would be the place. If not their forum is quite productive since there are multiple international members that breed fish on there.


I'm a member and have been for awhile.

I doubt the acidicity matters, the KH does however.
Sort of like the whole business with pH and plants, they do not care, but the KH will be less, so will the pH. KH and TDS perhaps seem far more important than pH. Food is also critical.

Still, tannins are like chelators that help reduce metal toxicity and this can help in some cases........and perhaps as anti bacterial agents as well.
But the pH matters little IME. I've bred enough fish in my day to not even worry about that. Soil and clays add the same attributes as do the tannins from wood or leaves. High tannins can help with some bacteria though.
There might be some merit to that.

My clients have wild discus/altums/Apistos and I know several amazon and Peruvian importors in LA. You might ask snookn21 on aquabid, I get my fish from a wholesaler, but you'd need a license. They seem to come in 2x a year maybe. These are pretty large fish, you would need a large tank, 50-55gal min with nothing else in it really.

For the 60p?

Zebras and there abouts as far a size is good, not much more than 3-4".
They are still growing and I have not come up with a nice piece just yet for the bamboo replacement for the caves made from manzanita just yet, but I have some pieces soaking and I'll carve them up to make the right sized caves for them that still matches the scape.

You might consider the open growth above the tank as a method to add plants to such tanks, you can do whatever you want with the pH etc.....it's not going to bother the plants, they will still grow well.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Here's the flat circular cat. Spoon nose might be another common name the wholesaler's use.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?species=planiloricaria+cryptodon&image_id=2300

Really a nice fish._
Planiloricaria cryptodon_

The whoelsalers will rarely use the species name for this one.
Same for many plecos.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I finally killed off the last few RCS that I could never get all of them.

Used pyrenthin.

I've added some new wood and made the submersed region more rooty looking.
I took the Zebras out, likely will sell them.

Not sure what species I'll add.


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## roni (Aug 28, 2006)

Interested to see what the new scape looks like...Tired of the zebras?


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## slicebo123 (Jan 4, 2010)

I've seen this thread several times, and I always noticed something new about this tank. You've matched the aquarium design/layout so perfectly with its location in your house. The clean, white tile with the dark grout really matches the clean sand bottom and dark hues of the tank. Meta-scape: just blew my mind.


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## TwoStrokeKing (Mar 24, 2011)

Tom Barr you are my hero. Keep up the good work man.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

New pics, the tank is evolving still, the wood in the lower part will change a little and the moss and Anubias will grow in more on top.



















I have not added fish yet, the zebras just where too boring for the tank.
Not sure what yet though.

Some day I ought to clean the glass and remove the equipment for a fuddy duddy picture.

Naw.........



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

How about L134 (Peckotia compta)? They are slightly bigger, more active and way less shy. I see mine scurrying all over my tanks all the time. I don't have H. zebra so cannot compare directly, but my friend who have them say they never see them.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

2wheelsx2 said:


> How about L134 (Peckotia compta)? They are slightly bigger, more active and way less shy. I see mine scurrying all over my tanks all the time. I don't have H. zebra so cannot compare directly, but my friend who have them say they never see them.


Mangos will not work, they fight, get big, 
Lepoard Frogs fight, Queens are nice, but a bit too big.
Same with vampires and a few others. 

I might do a nice figure 8 puffer or some NG threadfins or galaxy rasboras, or C compressiceps pike cichlid and few other things that will get along with them.

Tank is too small for many other fish.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

That's probably true, since you don't have any rocks/caves in that scape to establish territories. My 100 gallon cube is littered with rocks and stones so the L134 and L066 I have in there have some border skirmishes, but rarely any knockdown dragout fights.

Probably true for most plecos in your scape, since the bottom is quite open.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Looking good! I like the emergent section and the wood is as alway; amazing. Have you thought have doing like maybe 50 small fish? Like chili rasboras? Or maybe something like a bunch of ember tetra? Just a thought.

-Caton


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Galaxy rasboras would fit that bill.

I'm still thinking though, went and looked ata few fish in the LFS's and then the books.

Nothing yet really.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

A figure 8 puffer would be awesome in there!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Church said:


> A figure 8 puffer would be awesome in there!


Yes, but no one else.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

With all that overhead plant cover, it looks like it would make a great spawning tank for a pair of nice bettas or maybe even some killies.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

shrimpnmoss said:


> With all that overhead plant cover, it looks like it would make a great spawning tank for a pair of nice bettas or maybe even some killies.


Dried fish chips, that's what killis end up being even with 90% of the tank covered.

They'd eat the left over shrimp pretty good though.

I'm not big on bettas. They are pretty etc, macrostoma maybe.........a couple of others.........


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## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

How about gouramis and barbs?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

kalawai2000 said:


> How about gouramis and barbs?


Not a bad idea, they are easy too.

I have 30 Botia sidthimunkii I am wondering what to do with. 

They are nice and lively.

Might be okay, but the tank is a tad small for much else other than the Botia if I go this route.

Crenicichla compressiceps in an idea as well.
Apistos etc.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

L-333s and silver tip Tetras come to mind for this scape. Cant wait to see what you pick


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

chad320 said:


> L-333s and silver tip Tetras come to mind for this scape. Cant wait to see what you pick


Botia are winning out since I have few places to put them and I like them a lot.

They do well in a CO2 enriched tank but, that is no big deal.

One of my other tanks will likely become a reef and seagrass marine tank


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## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

Botia are very interesting fish... are they, the final pick?


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## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey Tom, How many tanks do you own?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

kalawai2000 said:


> Hey Tom, How many tanks do you own?


5, that's the limit in this home.


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## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

I have four..plus an outdoor tub. It only takes one:hihi:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> 5, that's the limit in this home.


There's always the garage


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

CL said:


> There's always the garage


And then there's always the couch...


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

Updates please....


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

CL said:


> There's always the garage


3 small tank limit, breeder fry tank holding tank only.
Bare bottoms only.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

londonloco said:


> Updates please....


I took the Bettas out, they jump way too much to have this tank look decent. 
the Double truck fits perfectly in here along with a particularly mean Mango Pleco. Both of these species are hyper sensitive to higher CO2 than any other species I've ever kept, so they have a nice home and no CO2 enrichment, and a nice wet/dry filter. Any left over food, the pleco will eat. The cover under the wood/plant mat, blocks the light and the elephant nose loves it. This fish I've had awhile and is more "a pet", double trunks are particularly interesting.


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## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> 3 small tank limit, breeder fry tank holding tank only.
> Bare bottoms only.


Looking really good! How often do you trim?

Can you show us your 2 others tanks journal in others rooms? They look bigger than this one...


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Jeeezzzzzzzz, I thought you were finally doing that tank, if it wasn't for antbug's keen eyes I would have never know the difference, I don't know squat about ADA tanks so it looked close enough.

The tank looks nice with the driftwood snag and plants up top, I think it would make nice Pencilfish tank, they like shaded areas, they are peaceful slow movers with fairly good colors, and have a delicate quality that always reminds me of Hummingbirds the way they graze at an angle with their delicate fins buzz'n along.




plantbrain said:


> You mean this tank:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

aquaquang said:


> Looking really good! How often do you trim?
> 
> Can you show us your 2 others tanks journal in others rooms? They look bigger than this one...


About once every month or so, I tend to pick at it here and there. No real trimming issues, most is above water so it's a small snip here or there. Anyone can trim this tank easily, like a house plant.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

150EH said:


> Jeeezzzzzzzz, I thought you were finally doing that tank, if it wasn't for antbug's keen eyes I would have never know the difference, I don't know squat about ADA tanks so it looked close enough.
> 
> The tank looks nice with the driftwood snag and plants up top, I think it would make nice Pencilfish tank, they like shaded areas, they are peaceful slow movers with fairly good colors, and have a delicate quality that always reminds me of Hummingbirds the way they graze at an angle with their delicate fins buzz'n along.


Ahh, I love em, but they jump out.

I have a set of glass lids for most of the tanks, but with wood poking out, some tanks are very tough to address jumpers.

I redid the 120, and this is an older pic, I trimmed the wood down some and redid it again. I'll get this done at some point or might remove the main piece and go almost a full Dutch display perhaps.


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## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> About once every month or so, I tend to pick at it here and there. No real trimming issues, most is above water so it's a small snip here or there. Anyone can trim this tank easily, like a house plant.


I like the idea of this tank

btw, How many tanks do you have?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

aquaquang said:


> I like the idea of this tank
> 
> btw, How many tanks do you have?


5 is the in house limit.
If you do not have a limit, get one.


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## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> 5 is the in house limit.
> If you do not have a limit, get one.


That's a lot! you're so addicted. LoL!

I noticed the two others look bigger than this one.
How do you manage to maintain 5 of them? (water change, cleaning/removing algaes on glass, cleaning filters, dosing ferts, etc.)

I believe with a lots of effort and time consume


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Ahh, I love em, but they jump out.
> 
> I have a set of glass lids for most of the tanks, but with wood poking out, some tanks are very tough to address jumpers.
> 
> I redid the 120, and this is an older pic, I trimmed the wood down some and redid it again. I'll get this done at some point or might remove the main piece and go almost a full Dutch display perhaps.


I think its not just me that would love a full dutch display from you.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

aquaquang said:


> That's a lot! you're so addicted. LoL!
> 
> I noticed the two others look bigger than this one.
> How do you manage to maintain 5 of them? (water change, cleaning/removing algaes on glass, cleaning filters, dosing ferts, etc.)
> ...


I spend about 1.5 hours a week on my own tanks.
A simple large 3/4" flexogen hose and a U shaped hood makes drain/refill easy and while that's going on, I clean filters, nab shrimp, trim plants, clean filters, wipe glass, etc.

So I end up spending about 20 min per tank, per week, they could look better perhaps, if I spent more time, but there's no need for me personally to do so.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Pesky flies and aphids have been attacking the Anubias and the pennywort a lot.

I think I'll net the tank and add lady bugs, but they are not easy to find in winter.

The tank dsiplay is due for an overhaul and I can place the fish ina quarantine tank till I get the wood and display the way I want.

This will happen in the next 1-2 weeks or so.
Same concept, but I'll make some tweaks based on what I have learned from this style/design.

Should look nicer.

ADA tanks and most tanks in general, need a good overhaul 1-2 years anyway. Really clean it good etc.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Took awhile to scrap off the lime and other junk.

I have 4 different sets of wood to try out, but I'm 60-70% leaning one way.
You can see the Mame prefilter on the back corner.
The eshoppes prefilter and the lily pipe will be removed.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Hahaha...good to see the pros even use the good ol' toothbrush!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Not really happy with this one, but much easier to deal with the older one.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

What's the redish plant in the back? Are you going to put ant moss on the wood in the tank or any plants. The new set up provide a lot more light to the bottom. You should make this your Buce tank.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

antbug said:


> What's the redish plant in the back? Are you going to put ant moss on the wood in the tank or any plants. The new set up provide a lot more light to the bottom. You should make this your Buce tank.


Good idea on the Buce, the Red hygro is just the same old stuff Petco use to sell years ago, not really good for submersed growth, but nice for emergent.

There's lots of moss, it's just covered by other plants.


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## Ach1Ll3sH33L (Mar 1, 2012)

What return pump are you using, looking to get one for a sump im building for my 60-p.
Thanks


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Ach1Ll3sH33L said:


> What return pump are you using, looking to get one for a sump im building for my 60-p.
> Thanks


Rio 1000


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