# Good Substrate Heater



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

"good" substrate heater? There is no good reason to use substrate heaters.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> "good" substrate heater? There is no good reason to use substrate heaters.


And that's the truth!


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## R_Barber001 (Oct 5, 2011)

I thought it would create a convection cycle raising the unwanted nutrients with heat so new nutrients can settle into the substrate?


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## sajata (Aug 21, 2009)

that MAy be try but the biggest problem is that the roots from the plants will get hopelessly entangled and you will be constantly tearing up the substrate just to replant. I was considering on when i first started and not in retrospect i am glad i did not...


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

R_Barber001 - Substrate heating was a popular concept in Europe for planted tanks about 20 or so years ago. We've learned it really isn't needed.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

R_Barber001 said:


> I thought it would create a convection cycle raising the unwanted nutrients with heat so new nutrients can settle into the substrate?


In 1980 we thought this... however if you have any flow at all in your tank, this is just a waste of money. No one in the US uses them anymore... because of this.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

Doesn't it serve to heat the water as well?


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## KrazyFish (Dec 23, 2010)

Along with convection currents they also aid in the prevention of Anorobic gas pockets.

While many will tell you that they are not beneficial at all, and I won't disagree that many, many people are successfull without them, there are benefits to using them and the only real downside is the issue with roots clinging to them which makes uprooting the plants a bit more challenging.

My advice to you is you can definitely get by without them, but if you really would like to use one and don't mind spending an extra $50-60 or so go for. Hydor makes one.


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## R_Barber001 (Oct 5, 2011)

Does the hydro make one for a 90 gallon?


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## KrazyFish (Dec 23, 2010)

http://www.aquatichouse.com/Pumps_files/hydor hydrokable.asp

Here it is.


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## R_Barber001 (Oct 5, 2011)

KrazyFish said:


> http://www.aquatichouse.com/Pumps_files/hydor hydrokable.asp
> 
> Here it is.


 the 100 watt 35 foot one is rated for 40-65 gallons


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## KrazyFish (Dec 23, 2010)

It's enough. Although you should still have an additional heat source for the water column. I have this in my own 90Gallon.


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## dundadundun (Apr 8, 2010)

i'm going to disagree. rope style heaters depend on the distance from one length of the rope to the next to create the appropriate heat. i'm not sure this works on the inverse square rule like light does, but it's pretty close. this means that section "A" and section "B" being "X" distance away from each other may create the perfect temperature while an extra inch may make the whole unit useless or decreasing the distance may triple that heat output.

the ropes are literally good for heating a specific footprint with a small margin of error. no more, no less.

let alone the fact it's an unnecessary added expense with no quantifiable added value. plus the fact they get put somewhere that if there ever is an issue it's going to create the necessity to completely uproot the entire tank to remove one.

you can't monitor the actual temperature they're putting out. too hot and roots can't grow there. too cold and it's useless even for temperature control. that's a small margin of error unless you're willing to set them up somewhere between perfect and too hot and add a controller unit. more expense for little gain...

there's also no foolproof way to keep them from moving around in your substrate creating hot and cold patches when you uproot a plant.

if you really want a temperature controlled root zone/substrate, i'd personally opt for a UTH adhered evenly to the underside of the bottom glass and sealed in with a layer of foil tape around the edge to keep an evenly distributed temp. :gasp: not a desert pad... something a little more subtle. then you could touch it with your hand and confirm the temp without having to uproot your entire tank.

again... it's still an added, wasted expense, IMHO.


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## R_Barber001 (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm starting to change my mind about heating my substrate seems pointless and a lot of work for nothing


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

OverStocked said:


> "good" substrate heater? There is no good reason to use substrate heaters.





OverStocked said:


> In 1980 we thought this... however if you have any flow at all in your tank, this is just a waste of money. No one in the US uses them anymore... because of this.


Just because people thought they would help in a planted tank years ago and it was disproved doesn't mean that there is no good reason to use one. I can think of one good reason. How about so you don't have to have a heater visible in your tank. Sure you can run a heater inline but what is wrong with going this route instead. I have a hydor hydrokable and hydroset in my 90 gal along with a Eheim 2126 that has a built in heater and the heater in my Eheim hardly ever turns on. I have had this setup for over 2 years and has worked great. I bought the Eheim 2126 just in case anything ever happened to the Hyrokable and didn't want to tear apart the tank to replace it. This method of heating your tank is no more of a waste of money than running it through a inline heater. I have never encountered any problems of having hot and cold spots or the cable moving around as others have stated. Without actually having experiece using such equipment themselves others just spew what they have heard.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

But you end up with a cable running into your tank still. I you have a heater in a filter you're really just spending money to "hide" something that is already hidden. I don't see what you accomplished. The downsides, particularly roots getting tangled make it bad enough I will stay away. 

The same thing with ugf. I like them a filters but they get clogged with roots in planted tanks. 

A 100 watt cable will work twice as hard as a 200 watt heater to heat the same water. Then factor that it is passively doing it through the substrate and you're definitely losing some. 


Besides, the op thought they were "good" for planted tanks.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

I have rescaped my tanks a couple of times over the past few years and never have the roots get so tangled around the cable that it was a problem. And I really don't see the difference in energy consumption on my electric bill every month and I doubt you would either. As far as spending money that wasn't needed since I have one in my filter I'm sure all of us in this hobby have spent our fair share of money on stuff that wasn't needed but this is my hobby so it's either waste money on fish stuff or drugs and women. And I'm married and sober now!:hihi:


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I didn't say it would cost more to run. 100w it 100w. What I said is that it will work HARDER. Thus the heater will run more and burn out quicker. And just because we HAVE spent money where it isn't needed, doesn't mean we should keep promoting the cycle. 

I once shot myself in the leg with a .22. That doesn't mean I'm going to recommend it... 

Back in the mid 90's I used a few substrate cables and when I had plants like Swords or crypts they would get soooo tangled. You won't even realize how bad it is until you take the cable out. 

My point is simple: they do not offer anything that can't be done better or more efficiently. They do not offer any of the purported benefits that the OP seemed to think they did(based on old information). 

There are lots of ways to fold a buck. It just happens this isn't one that I think is worth it in any way. If you want to hide your filter, run it inline. Or, as you have already, in your canister. 

A big draw to a heat cable... if it goes bad, you'll have to remove everything to get it out.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

R_Barber001 said:


> substrate heater for a 90 gallon tank? I live in florida. Would it be worth it? I cannot find one for sale in the US!





DogFish said:


> R_Barber001 - Substrate heating was a popular concept in Europe for planted tanks about 20 or so years ago. We've learned it really isn't needed.


Next Summer stick you hand into the substrate of a local body of water where plants are growing. You'll see how cold it gets just a few inches down. Watch out fer them gators while doing it, ok ?





fresh.salty said:


> Doesn't it serve to heat the water as well?


It might, but that wasn't the reason for it's invention or promotion. It was thought to create a very slow flow of water through the substrate. Then just few years later after the book called The Optimum Aquarium came out it was discover rooted aquatic plants transported water through their tissues like terrestrial plants ( transpiration). In aquatic plants this process is called *guttation. *Aquatic plants suck up interstial water through the roots and expel it through their leaves. This process creates a slow flow of water down into the substrate.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

ua hua said:


> Just because people thought they would help in a planted tank years ago and it was disproved doesn't mean that there is no good reason to use one. I can think of one good reason. How about so you don't have to have a heater visible in your tank. Sure you can run a heater inline but what is wrong with going this route instead. I have a hydor hydrokable and hydroset in my 90 gal along with a Eheim 2126 that has a built in heater and the heater in my Eheim hardly ever turns on. I have had this setup for over 2 years and has worked great. I bought the Eheim 2126 just in case anything ever happened to the Hyrokable and didn't want to tear apart the tank to replace it. This method of heating your tank is no more of a waste of money than running it through a inline heater. I have never encountered any problems of having hot and cold spots or the cable moving around as others have stated. Without actually having experiece using such equipment themselves others just spew what they have heard.


Not only have I used them, I've actually made them from the raw electrical components, spent 10 years using them.

The only thing I can say as far help......they heat the water a little bit.

There's no effect on plants and the flow rates produced are TOO HIGH to provide optimal flow for plants.

This is measurable using a redox probe inserted into the sediment over 8-12 weeks etc. This same method is done in wetlands to gauge sediment for aquatic wetland plant roots.

I never noticed any difference in growth, or roots etc when they turned off during the hot summer for 3-4 months.

An in line Hydor heater does the same thing 2x, no heater in the tank and no need for supplement heat.

At least they are cheap these days like they should have been 20 years ago.



Steve001 said:


> This process creates a slow flow of water down into the substrate.


And the aerenchyma sends lots of O2 to the root zone creating higher levels of O2 and bacterial cycling which respiration consumes and produces CO2, which bubbles up cause significant patchy flow.

Those roots take care of all the diffusion business we would ever need down there.

Warmer plant roots are good for nurseries where the temp in the green house is cooler due to heating cost issues, good for helping seeds germinate, but clonal cuttings have no such requirement/benefit near as anyone has been able to show.

Maybe someone will falsify and show they work, but no one has come forward with convincing results to show this since they started selling them, so the "myth" lives on 30 years later.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

I don't Buy it either, but I can Tell you a great way to do It. Stick a 100 watt light bulb in a safe fixture under your tank then seal the stand. I used to heat my tank like that. Cost a dollar and ran no risk of voltage leaks from a heater in the water... but what's that you ask? efficient? why yes! an incandescent 100 watt light bulb gives off about 4 watts of light and about 96 watts of heat. each 100 will warm about 30 gallons about20 degrees, but you can use dimmers or multiple bulbs of various wattages to tweak the heat. The trick had many benefits, but i retired it after switching to a dirt substrate and reading a number of scientific papers discrediting the use of substrate heaters in dirt.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

I don't believe the OP asked whether a substrate heater was needed or good for a planted tank just if there was a good substrate heater. You all can debate to your hearts content whether they are beneficial to planted tanks or not but from what I have experienced myself it heats my tank just fine so if someone would rather use a substrate heater than an in tank or inline heater is up to them. Like Tom said the price of these has came down quite a bit in the last few years and there is nothing wrong with doing things a different way than everyone else. I don't think the plants or fish care where the water is heated from as long as it stays at a optimal temp.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

ua hua said:


> I don't believe the OP asked whether a substrate heater was needed or good for a planted tank just if there was a good substrate heater. You all can debate to your hearts content whether they are beneficial to planted tanks or not but from what I have experienced myself it heats my tank just fine so if someone would rather use a substrate heater than an in tank or inline heater is up to them. Like Tom said the price of these has came down quite a bit in the last few years and there is nothing wrong with doing things a different way than everyone else. I don't think the plants or fish care where the water is heated from as long as it stays at a optimal temp.


Read the book The Optimum Aquarium and you'll see why substrate heating was promoted at one time. It had nothing to do with keeping the tanks water warm.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> And the aerenchyma sends lots of O2 to the root zone creating higher levels of O2 and bacterial cycling which respiration consumes and produces CO2, which bubbles up cause significant patchy flow.
> 
> Those roots take care of all the diffusion business we would ever need down there.
> 
> ...


Glad you mentioned the o2 aspect. Myths never die.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Steve001 said:


> Read the book The Optimum Aquarium and you'll see why substrate heating was promoted at one time. It had nothing to do with keeping the tanks water warm.


I know exactly why they were promoted at one time but that is not why I use one. At the same time it heats the water in my tank just like any other method of heating. I think you have completely misunderstood my posts because not once have I said that they are needed nor better for planted tanks simply another method for heating your tank.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Gold Finger said:


> I don't Buy it either, but I can Tell you a great way to do It. Stick a 100 watt light bulb in a safe fixture under your tank then seal the stand. I used to heat my tank like that.


Pretty amazing how much heat a 100wt bulb will generate in a small enclosed space. A few bulbs can heat a insulated chicken coup.


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## R_Barber001 (Oct 5, 2011)

interesting. so thats what OP stands for. Another book to read, exciting! Thanks for your help guys!


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## AquaGurl (Mar 7, 2018)

*Substraight Heaters WORK!*

I would like to respectfully disagree with the statements that dismiss substraight/substratum heaters. 

I work exclusively with planted aquariums, Substraight heaters create water cycling that is nearly nonexistent in traditionally heated tanks. 
The substrata heater heats the water that resides in the stratum layers and forces it to rise to the top of the water column, this pulls cold water into the stratum. This process pulls valuable nutrients into the stratum and helps promote a heather tank environment. Especially in planted tanks. The movement of water brings with it nutrients and oxygen. it helps the plants, It helps the fish, and impacts your Nitrogen cycle. 

This process of heated water cycling is a naturally occurring process seen in the ocean and large bodies of water 

In all my tanks, I use substrata heaters in conjunction with traditional wall heaters. I can see the difference in my adopted 10 gallon tank that is not fitted with a substratum heater. The plants seem to struggle, the oxygen levels in the tank are low, and it just seems harder to raise plants, which i feel impacts my fish that thrive in planted environments. 


Substratum heaters are not for every aquarium hobbyist/owner, but it is not a completely useless item from my experience. Especially in planted aquariums. 

that is my 2 cents. Hope it makes a difference


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## FischAutoTechGarten (Jul 11, 2003)

I have a 115V 25W Hydor HydroKable (North American Style Plug) on a 10.

I'd like to find 6 more to place one in each of 6 20L tanks that will be on a shared system. I will keep and additional 200W heater in a sump. I will have two channels of heat control... The 25W cables in each tank will come on when temp drops below 81 (measured in the sump) and the 200W when the temp drops below 80 (measured in the sump). Each channel will have independent RTDs... Basically looking to minimize the effect of any of the controllers malfunctioning or heater sticking.... One benefit will be that the individual heating cables in each tank will cycle more often than the sump heater. The 25W undersize for the 20L is intentional....


Would love to find 6 more of these...

Laterite is starting to make a comeback... You'll see these cables make a comeback as well.


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## Jonny Fly (Nov 4, 2021)

R_Barber001 said:


> substrate heater for a 90 gallon tank? I live in florida. Would it be worth it? I cannot find one for sale in the US!


You only really need a substrate heater if you have a planted aquarium. They come in the form of a cable and you snake it back and forth on the bottom of your aquarium. This creates a convection current in your substrate which provides fresh oxygen and nutrients to the roots of your plants. Have you ever noticed how nasty the stuff smells that gets sucked out when you vacuum your gravel? That is caused by anaerobic bacteria. That type of bacteria only exists in low or no oxygen substrate. When you use a substrate heater the water in the substrate is constantly circulating. Watch some YouTube videos on heating aquarium substrate. You will find out where you can find it and how to install it.


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