# Where to Find Dirt Substrate? Clay?



## mason01 (Sep 29, 2016)

Hello all! I am new to the forum and want to begin another planted tank. I have recently got my hands on a 10 gallon half moon tank and want to turn it into a beautiful planted tank. The light I have for the tank is here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LIL7YPE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
I wanted to do have dirt and a little clay underneath the gravel substrate to allow for a lot of nutrients and overall better health for the plants. My only problem is, I don't know where I can find a small amount of dirt because there is no need for a 20 lb bag. I think 5 lbs would be plenty. So I guess my first question is where I could find a smaller bag of dirt substance for my tank.
The other question I had the was a follow up is if it would be okay to buy red clay from Michaels or the local art store near me. Anything would help! thank you!

UPDATE
Okay so I went to my LFS and he recommended a mix of soil for my planted tank. He recommended a mixture of Peat moss, Top soil (organic), and an organic potting mix I believe. He gave me some in roughly 1:2:2 ratio and told me that it should work really good. I did some research and found positive results for the Peat Moss but couldn't really find anything about them all mixed together. I also found some pure clay that I am going to mix into the soil as well before topping off with fine gravel. Does anyone know if this mixture will be okay? I heard straining the soil out to help get it as fine as possible is a good option too. Just wanted some opinions before I add it to the tank and have it get ugly!


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

If you live almost anywhere but a big city you can just go to a wooded area, or a riverbank, or a fallow farm field, and use a shovel and 5 gallon bucket to dig some dirt from an area where plants have been growing. Take it home and mineralize it. See http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...eralized-soil-substrate-mts-aaron-talbot.html Do not buy clay from an art store unless you can verify that it is pure clay, with no artificial ingredients. You might find that at a pottery making supplies place. If you can't find any, just don't use any. It is good, but not critical for a successful substrate.


----------



## mason01 (Sep 29, 2016)

Hoppy said:


> If you live almost anywhere but a big city you can just go to a wooded area, or a riverbank, or a fallow farm field, and use a shovel and 5 gallon bucket to dig some dirt from an area where plants have been growing. Take it home and mineralize it. See http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...eralized-soil-substrate-mts-aaron-talbot.html Do not buy clay from an art store unless you can verify that it is pure clay, with no artificial ingredients. You might find that at a pottery making supplies place. If you can't find any, just don't use any. It is good, but not critical for a successful substrate.


Okay thank you! I am going to see if I can find any dirt around my that I could use, but if not I may be buying as small of a bag as I can. When you say pure clay do you mean non toxic? I have heard good things about using clay in the substrate so I was just trying to find some places that I could get some near me, maybe from Walmart or Michaels.


----------



## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

mason01 said:


> Okay thank you! I am going to see if I can find any dirt around my that I could use, but if not I may be buying as small of a bag as I can. When you say pure clay do you mean non toxic? I have heard good things about using clay in the substrate so I was just trying to find some places that I could get some near me, maybe from Walmart or Michaels.


Pure clay means pure clay.
Clay is basically a kind of dirt. When people sell it for arts, crafts and hobbies, they purify it by removing sand and chunks of roots, etc. but then they may also add something to give it extra color, or it may not be an actual clay at all, it may be a polymer clay, which isn't the same thing. If you're going to put clay in the tank, you can either find a river bank and dig up some, or buy it. If you buy it, just make sure it doesn't have any additives. You probably won't find someone at michael's who knows if the product does, or does not have any additives unless the container states "100% all natural clay" or some such. You may have much more luck at a pottery shop or online, as people who make pottery would sell you some, and the bonus is, the purer it is, the cheaper.

I suppose you could try Michael's but I don't see any pure clay on their website. You don't want modeling clay which is about all they offer. And if Michael's doesn't carry any, I'd be surprised if walmart did.


----------



## mason01 (Sep 29, 2016)

Okay so I went to my LFS and he recommended a mix of soil for my planted tank. He recommended a mixture of Peat moss, Top soil (organic), and an organic potting mix I believe. He gave me some in roughly 1:2:2 ratio and told me that it should work really good. I did some research and found positive results for the Peat Moss but couldn't really find anything about them all mixed together. I also found some pure clay that I am going to mix into the soil as well before topping off with fine gravel. Does anyone know if this mixture will be okay? I heard straining the soil out to help get it as fine as possible is a good option too. Just wanted some opinions before I add it to the tank and have it get ugly!


----------



## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

Sounds like a good plan. You will have difficulty mixing the clay and soil. Don't let that bother you. You can mix the clay with a lot of water till it's more liquid than solid and then mix it all up and wait a few days for everything to settle to the bottom, and drain liquid off the top. Time intensive, but offers a thorough mix. Personally it seems most people just ball the clay into little marbles and scatter them throughout the mix. Much easier. As for sifting or sorting the soil, it's a good idea. The mix is going to be mostly organics: peat moss, bark sheddings, etc, which is fine, but removing the big chunks is a good idea, they won't quickly break down. The easiest way to do this in my opinion is what I already stated I believe. Pour it all in a bucket, soak it in water. Most will float. The bigger the chunks, the longer they will float. So simply mix it up in water, then wait a day or two. Just reach your hand in, and you can feel how much is floating and how much has sunk. When most has sunk, toss the big solids on top, pour off the water, you now have soaked potting mix. I know this worked for me, but I never used moss, it may float indefinitely for all I know, so take that into consideration. Once that's done mix in your clay nuggets and toss it in the tank!


----------



## mason01 (Sep 29, 2016)

Blacktetra said:


> Sounds like a good plan. You will have difficulty mixing the clay and soil. Don't let that bother you. You can mix the clay with a lot of water till it's more liquid than solid and then mix it all up and wait a few days for everything to settle to the bottom, and drain liquid off the top. Time intensive, but offers a thorough mix. Personally it seems most people just ball the clay into little marbles and scatter them throughout the mix. Much easier. As for sifting or sorting the soil, it's a good idea. The mix is going to be mostly organics: peat moss, bark sheddings, etc, which is fine, but removing the big chunks is a good idea, they won't quickly break down. The easiest way to do this in my opinion is what I already stated I believe. Pour it all in a bucket, soak it in water. Most will float. The bigger the chunks, the longer they will float. So simply mix it up in water, then wait a day or two. Just reach your hand in, and you can feel how much is floating and how much has sunk. When most has sunk, toss the big solids on top, pour off the water, you now have soaked potting mix. I know this worked for me, but I never used moss, it may float indefinitely for all I know, so take that into consideration. Once that's done mix in your clay nuggets and toss it in the tank!


Awesome thank you for your advice! I took all the soil and sifted it so I have a more fine soil with no chunks really at all. Once I get my clay I'll be in business! Do you think I should do the balls of clay or smash it so it's almost like a powder and mix it with the soil substrate? And am I supposed to let it dry out and get hard before adding it to the tank?


----------



## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

It's up to you. Grinding up the clay isn't as easy as it sounds, but if you want, go for it. If you do balls mixed in the soil they will disperse into the soil some when you wet things. If you don't soak the organic soil before flooding the tank you will have a real mess when things try to float, unless you use a thick, heavy cap.


----------



## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

I've had great success with just plain old top soil from the big box stores. No mineralization no nothing. Dumped it in, planted it. Waited for a while then added fish.


----------



## mason01 (Sep 29, 2016)

Blacktetra said:


> It's up to you. Grinding up the clay isn't as easy as it sounds, but if you want, go for it. If you do balls mixed in the soil they will disperse into the soil some when you wet things. If you don't soak the organic soil before flooding the tank you will have a real mess when things try to float, unless you use a thick, heavy cap.


I guess I'll have to decide which clay route I want to do, maybe a mix of the two. But since my soil is already very fine I will soak it in water just to be safe thank you! After it's done soaking I'll add some clay and then begin to add it to the tank. How moist do you have the soil before adding it? I've seen some people make it like pudding and other just have it damp and not runny. Do you have any experience with this?


----------



## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

Just depends on what is easiest for you. If you make it into a soup then you can't really put a cap on it, as the sand or pea gravel or whatever will just plink right down through it.
Personally I've put it in a pillow case to let the water seep out, but that can take a very long time depending on the fabric. Remove any standing water from the container, and scoop things out. If you can grab it in your hand in big clumps, it's dry enough. If it's like trying to grab water... well you've got too much liquid.

For lack of a better way to say it. When you pour out your soil into your tank, it should splat, not splash.


----------



## mason01 (Sep 29, 2016)

Blacktetra said:


> Just depends on what is easiest for you. If you make it into a soup then you can't really put a cap on it, as the sand or pea gravel or whatever will just plink right down through it.
> Personally I've put it in a pillow case to let the water seep out, but that can take a very long time depending on the fabric. Remove any standing water from the container, and scoop things out. If you can grab it in your hand in big clumps, it's dry enough. If it's like trying to grab water... well you've got too much liquid.
> 
> For lack of a better way to say it. When you pour out your soil into your tank, it should splat, not splash.


Lol that makes sense to me thank you! Excited to get it going and see how it looks, once I get everything going I'll put some pictures on here


----------



## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

I would like to stress that the 'soil' most are talking about is a subsoil. The stuff you find about a foot or more deep under lawns and such. It should be somewhat friable, meaning it doesn't hold together well when slightly damp. It would be the stuff you find when moles push up soil in molehills. 'Topsoil' from a store could have just about anything in it, and IMO, I wouldn't be inclined to use it because it could possibly have far too much organics. Subsoil should be sort of sandy-clayish-loamy and nutrient poor, that means no rotted manure, worm castings or other nitrogenous breakdown products. The link on making mineralized soil pretty much describes what you're looking for.


----------



## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

GrampsGrunge said:


> I would like to stress that the 'soil' most are talking about is a subsoil. The stuff you find about a foot or more deep under lawns and such. It should be somewhat friable, meaning it doesn't hold together well when slightly damp. It would be the stuff you find when moles push up soil in molehills. 'Topsoil' from a store could have just about anything in it, and IMO, I wouldn't be inclined to use it because it could possibly have far too much organics. Subsoil should be sort of sandy-clayish-loamy and nutrient poor, that means no rotted manure, worm castings or other nitrogenous breakdown products. The link on making mineralized soil pretty much describes what you're looking for.


I've heard this myself, but I find it rather interesting that this is recommended even though it is a complete contradiction (in methodology) to those who use potting mix which is pretty much 100% organics, and have no major problems.
If I'm honest, from the things posted here, I'd wager that straight sand, subsoil, topsoil, and potting mixes are all viable options. It just depends on how they are used, and the luck of the draw so-to-speak given the wide wide range of things included under the term "soil" or "dirt".

Also, how well dirt holds together when damp surely has more to do with clay content than simply whether or not it is top vs sub soil?


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I have read many times about people using Mexican red pottery clay. Walmart carries it. Then there is laterite gravel.


----------



## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

This is what I found and use, its messy if you pull rooted plants. Anyway its a dirted tank which doesn't matter.

AMACO® Mexican Pottery? Clay


----------



## mason01 (Sep 29, 2016)

Watercrayfish said:


> This is what I found and use, its messy if you pull rooted plants. Anyway its a dirted tank which doesn't matter.
> 
> AMACO® Mexican Pottery? Clay





Hilde said:


> I have read many times about people using Mexican red pottery clay. Walmart carries it. Then there is laterite gravel.


That is the type of clay that I bought and it's supposed to be here tomorrow so I'll be able to get everything completed! Did any of you use clay in your tank? If so did you do little balls of clay or smash it into a powder and add it to your dirt? Thank you all!


----------



## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

Make small balls and layer it before adding substrate, you dont want this any where near the surface.


----------



## mason01 (Sep 29, 2016)

Watercrayfish said:


> Make small balls and layer it before adding substrate, you dont want this any where near the surface.


Okay thank you, I saw someone smashed it then added it to their dirt before covering it with substrate. I figured the small balls would probably be the way to go


----------



## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Blacktetra said:


> I've heard this myself, but I find it rather interesting that this is recommended even though it is a complete contradiction (in methodology) to those who use potting mix which is pretty much 100% organics, and have no major problems.
> If I'm honest, from the things posted here, I'd wager that straight sand, subsoil, topsoil, and potting mixes are all viable options. It just depends on how they are used, and the luck of the draw so-to-speak given the wide wide range of things included under the term "soil" or "dirt".
> 
> Also, how well dirt holds together when damp surely has more to do with clay content than simply whether or not it is top vs sub soil?


Well that does apply, but subsoil from our 'neck of the woods' is clayish intermixed with some sand, tiny charcoal bits, some odd wood chunks, and a bit of degraded sandstone. There might be a little root fibers also.


----------

