# Eco-Complete for Planted Aquariums black sand being fazed out...



## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

In spite of the manufacturers claims Eco Complete will not give nutrients to your plants
according to many people on here. Good CEC value though. I have no knowledge of the sand version. But in my mind a sub needs to be in contact/w the nutrients to have a CEC value so putting it under some other sub will cancel that out...theoretically ?
I also think that unless they charge a fairly high amount for a sub, the shipping cost
being added to that may be why they discontinued it...just lack of sales for just black sand...but I still wonder why they removed it from their selling list.
The Eco will still absorb nutrients from the Amazonia, it just doesn't seem like it could get any from the water if covered.


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## bradleyheathhays (Oct 19, 2011)

Glad I got your recommendation before I spent all that dough. Read other recommendations that the Eco for Planted was good so I didn't look any deeper than that. Makes sense they're discontinuing it then if it's really not that great a product.

What's a CEC value? I've seen this before but still not sure what it is.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Don't know what the letters are for but it is tha subs capacity to absorb nutrients and
then release them back into the water. The water is heavy with them just after you add ferts and then the sub absorbs some of this if it has a good CEC value.
Black blasting sand does not have this capacity it is said on here.
But then when the plants use most of the ferts from the water and it has little of them the sub will release some of what it absorbed back into the water so your plants don't
have such a drop in the level of ferts that way. This is mostly related to when people use ferts in the water. Plants with well developde root systems like Sword plants and Crypts can get just as much ferts from the sub as they can get from the water.
Other types of plants get most of their ferts from the water.
It is beneficial to cater to both ways for them to get the ferts but not at all necessary.
If you use this Amazonia it will greatly benefit the plants which have these well developed root systems. Eventually it will run out of these nutrients also and it will need to be suplimented by using root tabs if you wish to continue the benefits from root feeding. The length of time this takes is at least in excess of a year and twice that according to some.
Some don't like the white color but I know a few who only use pool filter sand in their tanks/w no root tabs and good looking Crypts plants also. Pool filter sand is sometimes prefered because it is more uniform in size and cleaness but it is white.
Mostly saying you are doing the "extra mile" thing with your sub which is great.
Ask more questions before spending all that money and look on the section for that especially at any question that seems as if it may contain info you might want.
Petco has a black sand sub also in their on-line.
Other people may say something different about it so don't stop asking about this but I think putting eco between two or just say under a sub is stopping it from getting nutrients from the water for that CEC effect. In other words I might prefer to use either just the Eco on top of the Amazonia or just the sand on top of the Amazonia.


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## Aurie (Jun 3, 2013)

IMO the black sand (no matter what brand you use) will eventually settle below the regular eco complete. 

Eco is really hard to plant in for fine plants. Would probably be ok for a large aquarium. I used it in my nano (cause I have spare) and I have to just let things root on it's own. My Monte Carlo seems to have no issues with it though. (pics in my journal )


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

eco complete is lighter, mix with others it will eventually shift to the top.

and eco complete is good for many years, but only 1-2 years to provide the nutrition if you have heavy rooted plants(rotala rotundifolia, heterandera zosterifolia, ...) after that, need osmocote plus or laguna fertilizer stick.
I don't dose, because most of the plants are rooted, fertilizer goes into the substrate is better than goes into the water directly, and much less work.


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## Shawn123 (Jan 24, 2013)

If you can afford it, I would say do the whole tank with aquasoil or a comparable alternative. I believe the sand you want to cap with will end up settling to the bottom, so it will not work for you as a top layer. 
I have a 40b with eco complete right now. I like the look of it and it seems to grow plants fine, but sometimes it is hard to get plants to say put in the substrate (like new unrooted stems, blyxa, etc...) I now have 3 bags of aquasoil ready to redo my tank in the near future after I get a new light. 

If you can't do all aquasoil, maybe you could do the inch of aquasoil like you said, then a layer of sand. Maybe as long as the sand layer is thicker, even if it settles down in the gaps of the soil, you will still have sand on top?


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> eco complete is lighter, mix with others it will eventually shift to the top.
> 
> and eco complete is good for many years, but only 1-2 years to provide the nutrition if you have heavy rooted plants(rotala rotundifolia, heterandera zosterifolia, ...) after that, need osmocote plus or laguna fertilizer stick.
> I don't dose, because most of the plants are rooted, fertilizer goes into the substrate is better than goes into the water directly, and much less work.


To my knowledge, there are no nutrients in Eco, no NPK. It's inert. It must be added via column dosing or substrate tabs. It will last forever.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

bradleyheathhays said:


> Glad I got your recommendation before I spent all that dough. Read other recommendations that the Eco for Planted was good so I didn't look any deeper than that. Makes sense they're discontinuing it then if it's really not that great a product.
> 
> What's a CEC value? I've seen this before but still not sure what it is.


Cation (cat-ion) Exchange Capacity. The higher the number, the more cations (e.g. Fe, Ca, etc.) it can hold on to and give out (exchange), the more nutrients are accessible for plants for uptake.

You'll have to dose fertilizers for it to work, however, so don't expect it to grow plants right out of the bag. It won't.


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## aja31 (May 25, 2013)

Here is what I have found while using Eco-Complete in my tanks:

Pros:
1. Looks good, dark substrate
2. Doesn't break down. Many of the nutrient rich substrates (like aquasoil) turn to essentially mud/mush after a few years. Eco-Complete will hold it's shape and consistency longer than your house will. 
3. High CEC. If you dose ferts eco-complete will hold and maintain the nutrients and help regulate them and feed them to the plants. This is probably the biggest reason people use it.

Cons:

1. Expensive. it's about $1 a pound, whereas you can get 50lbs of sand for $10. 
2. Hard to plant in for some plants. I always have a terrible time getting stem plants to stay down.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> To my knowledge, there are no nutrients in Eco, no NPK. It's inert. It must be added via column dosing or substrate tabs. It will last forever.


sure the eco complete is inert clay granules, and good for many years, but inert doesn't means it is lack of elements/nutrients that for the plants, it only means it doesn't break down.
Eco complete does have nutrients mixed in when it is baked from clay(inert), check the label outside of the bag you will see. 
but the nutrients and the lush growth only good for 1-2 years, then need to pull out the eco complete and sun baked, or simply add fertilizer

Since it is inert, it doesn't break down that easy and release the nutrients, so every 1-2 years, need to pull the substrate out, dry and sun baked.

I use bags of black eco complete for many years on different tanks, and almost each time a major tank break down, I ordered new bags...
then put the old substrate in the garden, more flowers.

\mix eco- complete with play sand, about 2-1 ratio, and 3-4 inches in the tank, so the substrate is heavy enough to hold dedicate plants.


.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> Eco complete does have nutrients mixed in when it is baked from clay, check the label outside of the bag you will see.
> but the nutrients and the lush growth only good for 1-2 years, then need to pull out the eco complete and sun baked, or simply add fertilizer
> 
> I use bags of black eco complete for many years, and sure the eco complete is inert and good for many years.
> ...


I think you're referring to aquasoil which is clay. Ecocomplete is crushed lava rock.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Also, it should be noted that Eco comes in two grain sizes, the fine and the large. The fine grain is better for planting small stem plants such as HC, Glosso, Eleocharis.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I think you're referring to aquasoil which is clay. Ecocomplete is crushed lava rock.


hey, spend a little bit more time to dig around, and make sure to correct others only if you are familiar with the things that you are talking about.

and calm down a little, you are getting jumpy, especially when you see me around.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> hey, spend a little bit more time to dig around, and make sure to correct others only if you are familiar with the things that you are talking about.
> 
> and calm down a little, you are getting jumpy, especially when you see me around.


Eco is crushed lava rock, not clay. It's the same a Floramax with the bacteria. (You should take your own advice.)


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Eco is crushed lava rock, not clay.


well, LMAO.
you sure are getting jumpy.

Lava rocks, they are everywhere in my dad's hometown, and houses, bridges, roads, walls, temples... were made from the lava rocks.

what is clay, what is lava rock?
when you crush certain type of lava rock, what you get?
and how the eco-complete substrate are made, do you have any idea?


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> well, LMAO.
> you sure are getting jumpy.
> 
> Lava rocks, they are everywhere in my dad's hometown, and houses, bridges, roads, walls, temples... were made from the lava rocks.
> ...


I hope readers of this thread will go back to the first page and reference exactly what was said. Also, you need to stop taking things personally. I just corrected some things you said which were incorrect so that the OP would be able to make informed choices. And what do you do? You make it personal. Calm down. This isn't the first time you've taken something personally when you were shown to be incorrect about something. There is a huge difference between clay and lava rock and they are not the same.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I hope readers of this thread will go back to the first page and reference exactly what was said. Also, you need to stop taking things personally. I just corrected some things you said which were incorrect so that the OP would be able to make informed choices. And what do you do? You make it personal. Calm down. This isn't the first time you've taken something personally when you were shown to be incorrect about something. There is a huge difference between clay and lava rock and they are not the same.


you don't simply said "no" to others responds(especially mine) without knowing anything about it.

*first, nutrients:*
from drsfostersmith
_Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate is the complete planted aquarium substrate. Mineralogically complete. Contains iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur, plus 25 other elements to nourish your aquatic plants. Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium substrate contains all the mineral nutrients needed for luxuriant plant growth.
Iron-Rich Eco-Complete Red eliminates the need for laterite. Nitrate and carbonate free - will not increase pH or carbonate hardness in long term. NO artificial dyes, paints, or chemical coating. Naturally rich substrate coloration encourages the most vibrant coloration in fishes and reduces fish stress. Spherical grains for optimum diffusion performance. Supplies calcium without raising pH. Lead Free. Biologically complete.

Eco-Complete contains live heterotrophic bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants. It establishes a natural biological balance, which makes cycling a new aquarium faster and safer. Eco-Complete is packed in Liquid Amazon buffered black water solution for immediate organic water conditioning. Unsurpassed macro-porosity for healthy roots and bacterial efficiency._

*second, clay or not clay?*

It is commercial secret that the raw materials to prepare and how the product were produced, we don't know the detail of how eco complete were made.
but it is easy to understand that to make substrate, it is the same process that once the raw materials that contain the nutrients and other materials were prepared, mixed, then mixture heated to certain temperature, and melt to bond/form the gravel like particles.
Clay, can not be missing from this process.




BTW, where you got the idea that Eco-complete are lava rock? or Crushed Lava rock?


side note, I am sorry I corrected you on the posts about the co2 systems, and looks like you took it personal, and getting jumpy on my other posts as well


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## aja31 (May 25, 2013)

I've had lots of people tell me that eco complete is crushed lava rock. Which makes sense since if you look at crushed lava rock you probably couldn't tell the difference:

http://www.substratesource.com/?p=item&c=s&i=71

Eco complete does seem to be treated with micro-nutrients however I see no mention even by CaribSea of Macro nutrients which is what most people are referring to when they say something is inert. Betta's mention of baking it in the sun may be an effective way to have it absorb some macro nutrients, i'd like to try that and see what kind of results I can obtain. 

Also the definition of clay is that is has a particle size smaller than that of silt (less than 0.004mm) which by definition means it will not be porous like eco-complete. So it is 100% not clay based. Is it possible to make eco complete into clay? possibly, but it lacks a binding agent which would need to be added. It would be an interesting experiment to see the consistency when finely ground.


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## Mr.Betta (Jul 24, 2013)

Eco complete is for sure crushed up lava rock. Im sure the nutrients they list on the bag is a combination of what they add to the water in the bag and a break down of the rocks chemical make up. Either way Eco complete is a great substrate since it has a rather large surface area for bacterial growth and supposed ability to uptake nutrients for plants to use.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Mr.Betta said:


> Eco complete is for sure crushed up lava rock. Im sure the nutrients they list on the bag is a combination of what they add to the water in the bag and a break down of the rocks chemical make up. Either way Eco complete is a great substrate since it has a rather large surface area for bacterial growth and supposed ability to uptake nutrients for plants to use.


Actually, they don't add any nutrients to the bag, just bacteria. The chemical analysis is what the lava rock is composed, which is misleading. You'll still have to dose micronutrients for good plant growth.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Eco Complete is a fine substrate, but as others have pointed out, it's very light and smaller plants have trouble getting root system established without getting moved by fish or even water movement. I'd look at Activ-Flora as a superior alternative, especially if you want to cap a soil-based base layer. Can be hard to find, however, unless you're lucky and your LFS stocks it.

See Eco Complete vs. Activ-Flora comparison:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=526105


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