# Has anyone tried Landen aquatic soil? Feedback?



## Fisherking (Feb 27, 2012)

I saw it for sale today at Han Aquatics and wondered the same, but there were no reviews yet.

If they sold it in less than $30 bags, I'd just buy some and experiment, but I can't find a smaller size bag.


----------



## Hojae84 (Jan 20, 2018)

I know this is an old thread but i tried it out. Only had it 5 or 6 weeks so far but i can say it doesnt leach ammonia like amazonia. Have been doing fishless cycle adding pure ammonida to feed bb. Also seems like it doesnt crumble and break down as easily when replanting


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's not that old, @Hojae84. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I've had two separate batches of it (one obtained via Amazon, another from a shop in the DC area) and have found it to be... average. Takes a lot of it to maintain buffering capacity and nutrient content appears to vary drastically from batch to batch. One batch I have grew really nice crypts and bacopa. The other didn't do much at all. 

Both of my batches leeched ammonia at varying points. One tank was about 2PPM for a couple weeks and the other was about 4PPM for 7-8 days. 

I'd use it again if someone gave it to me but I wouldn't pay for it when there are better, more affordable products readily available.


----------



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> It's not that old, @Hojae84. Thanks for sharing your experience.
> 
> I've had two separate batches of it (one obtained via Amazon, another from a shop in the DC area) and have found it to be... average. Takes a lot of it to maintain buffering capacity and nutrient content appears to vary drastically from batch to batch. One batch I have grew really nice crypts and bacopa. The other didn't do much at all.
> 
> ...


Such as? I'm looking to order some substrate asap for a new tank and looking for suggestions. I know I can't go wrong with the standard ADA but I'd like to see what some other better priced but similar quality options are out there.


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Nubster said:


> Such as? I'm looking to order some substrate asap for a new tank and looking for suggestions. I know I can't go wrong with the standard ADA but I'd like to see what some other better priced but similar quality options are out there.


I almost bought the Landen substrate. But Fluval Stratum is $2.10 per pound if you buy the big bag on amazon. It's 2.61 per pound if you buy 8.8 pound bag. The landen substrate is 2.60 per pound for their 10 lb bag. So basically the same price or slightly more expensive then Stratum.


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

I have a 20L with 18lbs of Stratum and a 10 gallon tank with 5L (about 10lbs) of Landen soil. The 20 has been running for a few months, but I just started the Landen tank yesterday. It's a bit of an experiment for myself to see which I prefer.

It's early in the process, but I am definitely experiencing an ammonia spike right now in the Landen tank. I did not have such a spike with Stratum.

With Stratum, I had a great big dust storm when I flooded it. With Landen, there has been literally zero dust in the water. I wonder if this difference is solely due to packaging: Landen is vacuum packed, and Stratum is packed like a bag of potato chips.

I will try post more about my experience as the tank matures.


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

Landen appears to be sucking up all the PO4 I can feed it. I have been giving it close to 3ppm per day, and every time I test it, PO4 is back to what I call "very zero" where it looks like the 0ppm on the saltwater card, which is yellower than the 0ppm on the freshwater card. I have not been dosing NO3, just KH2PO4 and K2SO4 (and micros). NO3 is down to 5ppm today, and ammonia is down to 1.5ppm. So it looks like I might start dosing NO3.

Saturday was day 0. Sunday, no WC; Monday, 57%WC followed by a 77%WC; Tue, 68%; Wed 57%; Thu 65%. Today, none. Tomorrow is WC day for the other tanks, and I will probably change this one again as well.

Naturally, during my WCs I have had to re-plant some HC and a stem of Cabomba. I am still amazed that there is literally zero dust from this soil during these activities in stark contrast with the Stratum. I'm very curious to see if this continues with age.


----------



## sudhirr (Apr 12, 2019)

Interesting observations. Following this thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I have one tank about a year old and one about 3 months. I like it a lot, better than my last batch of ada which stated breaking down almost immediately (that was a bad batch I believe, not typical) I plan to change a couple more tanks over to it in the near future

It only comes in one size bag as far as I know












zivvel said:


> Landen appears to be sucking up all the PO4 I can feed it. I have been giving it close to 3ppm per day, and every time I test it, PO4 is back to what I call "very zero"


It will do that for about a month and then starts to slow down. I usually dose about 10 ppm PO4 after water changes for the first month, plus the 5-6 ppm it gets from regular dosing per week. This is with high light and hungry stems, slower tanks probably wouldnt need that much but the soil will do its thing regardless. That first month it will zero all that out completely in just a few days. And then say 5 extra for a couple more months. ADA aquasoil does the same thing.


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

@burr740, I thought your tank used BDBS? I must have missed the transition.

I'm adding Landen to my list, if I ever need a new substrate.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

OVT said:


> @*burr740*, I thought your tank used BDBS? I must have missed the transition.
> 
> I'm adding Landen to my list, if I ever need a new substrate.


I have seven tanks  The main Dutch is still BDBS. Its next on the list to swap but probably wont get done until after this year's AGA in Sept


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

I didn't get to the Landen tank WC until Sunday, and I changed 57%. Ammonia is 1.5ppm again today, and nitrates 30ppm -- I dosed NO3 & PO4 after WC, but I hadn't measured anything.



burr740 said:


> It will do that for about a month and then starts to slow down. I usually dose about 10 ppm PO4 after water changes for the first month, plus the 5-6 ppm it gets from regular dosing per week. This is with high light and hungry stems, slower tanks probably wouldnt need that much but the soil will do its thing regardless. That first month it will zero all that out completely in just a few days. And then say 5 extra for a couple more months. ADA aquasoil does the same thing.


 @burr740 I recall reading about your AS vs. PO4 battle, but I did not realize the same would happen with Landen. Have you also seen massive ammonia spikes with it? (Did you ever buy an ammonia test kit?) 

Have you had any bags of Landen that produce dust when you flood them or move stems around?

Based on your experience, I'm going to ramp up my PO4 dosing even further post-WC. I was doing 3ppm post-WC, and I was planning to dose 1.5ppm 3x/week now that I'm moving to weekly WC. I'm going to try 10ppm post-WC and see where it goes.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

zivvel said:


> I didn't get to the Landen tank WC until Sunday, and I changed 57%. Ammonia is 1.5ppm again today, and nitrates 30ppm -- I dosed NO3 & PO4 after WC, but I hadn't measured anything.
> 
> @*burr740* I recall reading about your AS vs. PO4 battle, but I did not realize the same would happen with Landen. Have you also seen massive ammonia spikes with it? (Did you ever buy an ammonia test kit?)
> 
> ...



Haha I did finally break down and grab some ammonia dipsticks but thats the extent of it. The latest 75 with Landen hit around 1.5- 2 ppm every couple of days for about 2.5 weeks. Then all of a sudden stopped, it went from that to zero in one day and never showed up again. Probably a lot to do with the cycle maturing. No fish so I wasnt too worried about what it did besides melting sensitive plants. More idle curiosity than anything

None of my Landen has been dusty at all, either at first or a few months later. Think Ive used a total of 11 bags so far


----------



## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

burr740 said:


> I have one tank about a year old and one about 3 months. I like it a lot, better than my last batch of ada which stated breaking down almost immediately (that was a bad batch I believe, not typical) I plan to change a couple more tanks over to it in the near future
> 
> It only comes in one size bag as far as I know
> 
> ...



@*burr740* great tank pic!


What are the 3 plants I've circled in red?


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

rzn7z7 said:


> @*burr740* great tank pic!
> 
> 
> What are the 3 plants I've circled in red?


Thanks! Pic isnt showing for me?


----------



## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

burr740 said:


> Thanks! Pic isnt showing for me?



D'oh....try this


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

rzn7z7 said:


> D'oh....try this



Left to right- Persicaria cf glabra, Hygro corymbosa 'parawitota', Erio kannurense


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

The 10gal is still battling ammonia (ammonium more like). Still, I'm only doing weekly WC on it lately. Also, it has slowed down its PO4 sink rate. I can at least measure some in the water column now the day after dosing it.

I threw a bunch of plants in there that I got from @fablau. Completely melted a few stems of Limnophila aromatica (they were in bad shape already) along with half of a stem of mermaid weed from @burr740 this week. Cabomba (green & furcata), Bacopa caroliniana, HC, Syngonanthus 'giant', and a couple stems of Rotala rotundifolia are doing well. AR and Ludwigia red are not sure what to do in there yet. Oh, I also have a single rescue-stem of Rotala wallichii in there. It's growing, but it's not pretty. It's not pretty in the Stratum tank, either.

I have 3 more bags of Landen soil sitting next to my 36BF tank. There are many new plants in that tank right now that are recovering from shipment. Once I feel good about those plants, I will replace the Flourite-capped dirt with Landen soil.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Im currently fighting the urge to swap the main Dutch over from sand. Will probably wait until after Sept contest time


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

burr740 said:


> Im currently fighting the urge to swap the main Dutch over from sand. Will probably wait until after Sept contest time


I'm looking forward to following along when you do it. Half of me wants you to make the swap now so the summer will host an exciting battle resulting in another top-3 finish.

But you're probably right to wait. :smile2:


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

The 10gal always seems to keep somewhere between .25 & .5 total ammonia/ammonium now. It took about a month to get there because I think I had to re-cycle the filter. It's still phishless, so I really don't care. It will still eat up the PO4 pretty fast: Late Sat night, after a 82% WC, I dosed 22.5:6:25.63 ppm NO3O4:K. 15 hrs later, I measured PO4 at 0.5 ppm and dosed another 4ppm PO4. 3 hrs later (9pm), I measured 3ppm PO4. 34 hrs later, 0.5ppm again, and another 4ppm dosed. I've been trying to keep 2-4 ppm in the water column because I seem to get less algae that way.

Here's what happens when I let PO4 go to zero:










In the 36 bowfront, I spent most of the day on May 16 siphoning out flourite & soil and starting over with Landen. I used about 1/4" of Stratum first (since I have it...), then sprinkled in O+ because I'm nuts, and then about 14L of Landen. Daily 17gal WC for the first week. WC every 2 days the next week, and now I'm on week 3 where I'll go 3 days between WCs. Yesterday I put my fish back in after WC. Total ammoni[a/um] down to 0.5ppm after 2 weeks. Dosing is PO4-heavy as with the 10gal. Algae has been minimal. Plants are loving it. Here's a FTS from a few days back after adding some plants from @burr740, but before removing the HOB and returning the fish to their home. Please ignore my ugly AR while I figure out how to make it pretty!










I just ordered another couple bags (from natureaquascapes.com -- Amazon out of stock, eBay $50/bag!) to finally redo the 20 long that sits on my bar using Landen. That's my last tank. This stuff is great. No dust, and a nice near-black color.

Here's a "before" for that tank, from about a week ago:










I hate seiryu stone right now -- the stuff in this tank needs another bleach treatment for GSA. I'll probably remove 2 of the 4 rocks when I redo it. I'm curious how the KH leech of that stone will mesh with the KH sink of the Landen soil.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Great update @zivvel . Interesting to see the PO4 rates, thats not unlike what happens in mine. Nice tanks too!


----------



## sudiorca (Apr 7, 2020)

Hi,
I will be resetting my 20 high soon. I have mostly fast growing stem plants, some eriocaulon species and pogostemon helferi red. I have ordered Landen soil from 
https://www.natureaquascapes.com/products/landen-aqua-soil-black-normal-5l-ships-free
There is a 10% discount when using the code 'SAVE10', if anyone is planning to get this aquasoil. I am also upgrading my light from Chihiros rgb60 (old model) to Nilocg's Prizm led light.
I am using remineralized ro-di water currently and I am prepared to do large frequent water changes upon resetting with Landen soil. I will be keeping the lights on for 6 hours initially and at low intensity. I will be adding extra phosphate after every water change (thank you all for this information) along with ei dosing.
Is there anything else important during the initial setup?
Thanking you all in anticipation.


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

sudiorca said:


> Hi,
> I will be resetting my 20 high soon. I have mostly fast growing stem plants, some eriocaulon species and pogostemon helferi red. I have ordered Landen soil from
> https://www.natureaquascapes.com/products/landen-aqua-soil-black-normal-5l-ships-free
> There is a 10% discount when using the code 'SAVE10', if anyone is planning to get this aquasoil. I am also upgrading my light from Chihiros rgb60 (old model) to Nilocg's Prizm led light.
> ...


Sounds like you have a solid plan to me.

I replaced the soil in my 20 gallon tank 9 days ago, so I am on to every-other-day WCs. I just had to throw a big dose of Excel in yesterday, as my rocks are already getting dusted with green.


----------



## sudiorca (Apr 7, 2020)

zivvel said:


> Sounds like you have a solid plan to me.
> 
> I replaced the soil in my 20 gallon tank 9 days ago, so I am on to every-other-day WCs. I just had to throw a big dose of Excel in yesterday, as my rocks are already getting dusted with green.


Thank you so much for the encouragement. My filter is fully matured and I will use the same tank which should have some bacteria on the glass as well. These will definitely help to speed up the nitrification process. How long will it still take to eliminate ammonia if I do daily 80-90% water change?
Thanks again for your suggestion.


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

sudiorca said:


> Thank you so much for the encouragement. My filter is fully matured and I will use the same tank which should have some bacteria on the glass as well. These will definitely help to speed up the nitrification process. How long will it still take to eliminate ammonia if I do daily 80-90% water change?
> Thanks again for your suggestion.


I can't tell you that for sure. First, I'm only doing 50% WCs. Second, and more important: every tank is different.

I now have 3 Landen tanks, and only one of them has really shown large quantities of ammonia. All 3 still show some ammonia on the API test (0.25 - 0.5), though, even months after setup. 2 of them don't even have animals yet. I move pretty slowly. But I don't worry about .5 total NH3 & NH4 which is what that test tells us -- my tanks are all around or below 6 pH, so almost all of that will be non-toxic ammonium.

The 20 gal (now almost 2 weeks in) is suffering a good bit of melt as well as GDA & the green stringy algae. I'm pretty sure the melt is my fault -- too much H2O2 several weeks ago on my Buces, and they have been headed downhill ever since; the Myriophyllum that sat in tap water all day did not adapt well to the tank with replaced soil, but a few stems from my 10gal are doing fine after transplant. The algae is tiresome, but I'm sure it will pass.

Keep us posted on your progress! I'm always interested in learning other people's lessons with them!


----------



## sudiorca (Apr 7, 2020)

zivvel said:


> sudiorca said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you so much for the encouragement. My filter is fully matured and I will use the same tank which should have some bacteria on the glass as well. These will definitely help to speed up the nitrification process. How long will it still take to eliminate ammonia if I do daily 80-90% water change?
> ...


Thank you for the tips. I was finally able to reset my existing 20 gal high tank on July 9, 2020 with Landen soil and some additives.
I first sprinkled some osmocote balls, followed by 200 g of red clay powder, I then added some Landen soil to make that layer about 1 inch deep. I further added 0.5 inch of organic potting mix (bigger particles sifted out). I capped the organic potting mix layer by using 2 inches of Landen soil. Overall substrate depth was 3 inches at front and about 3.5 inches at the back. I used slightly more than 2.5 bags of 5L Landen soil. 
I used tap water to fill the tank for the first time and started the filter (Cascade 700 canister filter, running for almost 6 six months now). I have not cleaned the filter for more than a month now. I wanted to have a larger colony of nitrifying bacteria for the initial ammonia spike. I didn't run the light (16 inch Prizm led) for the first two days and performed 75-85% water change with remineralized ro-di water each day. Ammonia reading on the first day was about 4-5 ppm. After two days, it was somewhere between 1-2 ppm. 
I decided to plant most of the plants except pogostemon helferi downoi red on the third day (July 11) and started injecting CO2 and turned the light on at lower intensity. I performed another large wc after planting. It has been 8 days since I added the plants (10 days since reset) and have been checking ammonia everyday, it is still around 0.25 ppm. Interestingly I have not seen nitrite formation in the initial period when I tested but there was 10-15 ppm of nitrate present even on the third day after reset. 
I have been doing large water changes with remineralized ro-di water every day and have performed 11 large water changes (75-90%) till today. I am adding about 9 ppm phosphate every day along with regular ei dosing. Plants are growing rapidly. The first image was made on July 12 (second day after planting) and the second one was made yesterday (6 days post planting). I increased the light to about 50% intensity yesterday and I trimmed some of the long stems today. 
I will keep posting the progress of the tank.
Thank you all for your help.


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

sudiorca said:


> Thank you for the tips. I was finally able to reset my existing 20 gal high tank on July 9, 2020 with Landen soil and some additives. ...


Looking good!

I still got 0.25ppm total ammonia readings sometimes weeks after changing to Landen soil. But with the pH as low as it is, that is nothing to worry about -- harmless ammonium. Plenty has been written about ammonia vs. ammonium and how they relate to pH.

I also did not experience much in the way of nitrites. I saw some small nitrite readings for a couple of days with one of the tanks, but that's about it.


----------



## Whatisthebest (May 22, 2021)

Hojae84 said:


> I know this is an old thread but i tried it out. Only had it 5 or 6 weeks so far but i can say it doesnt leach ammonia like amazonia. Have been doing fishless cycle adding pure ammonida to feed bb. Also seems like it doesnt crumble and break down as easily when replanting





somewhatshocked said:


> It's not that old, @Hojae84. Thanks for sharing your experience.
> 
> I've had two separate batches of it (one obtained via Amazon, another from a shop in the DC area) and have found it to be... average. Takes a lot of it to maintain buffering capacity and nutrient content appears to vary drastically from batch to batch. One batch I have grew really nice crypts and bacopa. The other didn't do much at all.
> 
> ...


What is the best affordable one you have found


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Whatisthebest said:


> What is the best affordable one you have found


'Best' is relative, unfortunately. Even when it comes to cheaper substrates. So what's best for me won't be best for someone else.

What kind of tank are you trying to set up? Something with plants that are heavy root feeders? Just looking for dirt-based for the sake of appearance? Something low-tech with only plants that don't need to be planted in substrate? What size tank? What budget?

I prefer ADA products (for some of my shrimp tanks) in terms of warranty and quality control from batch to batch. Any time I've had an issue with a bag, I've been able to get it replaced. It's honestly not too expensive for what you get - at least not in terms of substrate pricing. 9L bags are huge. But I use pretty much everything from Fluval Stratum to Shrimp Sand to Landen to Tropica to the myriad other dirt/clay-based substrates available from Asia. They're all pretty good and have their pros and cons.


----------

