# Stalite - I found a new product



## metageologist (Jan 10, 2008)

this looks to be a nice alternative to pool filter sand and based on the laboratory reports it looks to be very stable, and contain trace minerals but being a slate is will be difficult to get them into solution


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

From what I've seen, pool filter sand is mostly white to off white. I believe a white substrate would show off the detritus and dirt etc more. Stalite has a dark gray color when under water which may look a little better and hide crap etc better.
I understand that the mineral content may be slow, if any, a source for the plants. It is very porous with a lot of surface area, like carbon, so it can also house a lot of good bacteria. The roots may be able to get some of the nutrients but I think using Jobes or equivalent may be the answer like so many other substrates. I'm going to be testing this more to see how it works. But first I need to do a water test on the soaked sample of Stalite I have setting in a glass of water. I made the mistake before not testing some paver leveling sand that I tried and it made my water extremely hard.
I don't have enough tanks to set up two identical tanks with plants, one being with Jobes, and the other without. If anybody would like to help out with this task, it would be much appreciated to all of us in the hobby.
I know there has to be something that is much cheaper than the designer substrates that will work good that is really easy to use. Stalite rinses real easy and quickly too. And if needed, Jobes are so easy to add when needed with a pair of tongs or tweezers. Also, as far as I know, not all plants need root fertilizers.
I am hoping that Stalite will prove to be an outstanding substrate that does not cost an arm and a leg. $9.00 versus $50.00 for a .75 cu ft is in my opinion a very good deal. I know people can use plain old sand at a lower price. Some compacts and the color is light. Stalite doesn't compact and has a dark color and if the minerals are available to the plant roots this would be a plus.
Joe


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## wondabread (Apr 23, 2009)

This looks extremely promising. I use play sand in my main tank - and the sight of detritus is annoying. 

Please post your results of the water testing. I will switch in a heartbeat if there are no changes.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

wondabread said:


> This looks extremely promising. I use play sand in my main tank - and the sight of detritus is annoying.
> 
> Please post your results of the water testing. I will switch in a heartbeat if there are no changes.


Stalite company says it is inert, but I'm checking it anyway. I'm going to give it three or four days to make sure, steering it daily.
I post my findings.
Joe


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## metageologist (Jan 10, 2008)

Joetee said:


> From what I've seen, pool filter sand is mostly white to off white.


the pool filter sand i get is a medium tan but i have seen the white stuff and passed on it. 

being that the material is slate it should be innert unless it is a calcarious slate (rare) im looking forward to your results since i will be looking to set up a 75gallon low tech in the next 6months. im hoping i will be able to find this in my area seing that it is being used primaroly as a agrogate and up here in the northeast we have a large suppy of local agrogate.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Can you put a small amount on a white plate, lay a dime on it and take a picture? That will show us what it looks like. Then add water so we can see it wet. The only problem I can see that you might run into is the very light weight, which might make it hard to keep plants in place. But, SMS has that problem too.


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## kali (May 8, 2009)

can we get this stuff local?? if so where please?
thansk


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## jrafael (Jan 7, 2009)

I jus found this website with additional info

http://www.permatill.com/

http://www.permatill.com/More_Info_Permatill.html

Dealer Locator:

http://www.permatill.com/LocateNEW.aspx


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## ESK07 (Mar 16, 2009)

There's a place near me that carries it

I couldn't find pics of what it looks like out of the bag, anyone got any info?


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

OK, On Sat 5/9/09 I placed lightly rinsed Stalite in a glass of my tap water, and also filled another glass with the same tap water to age along with the Stalite for comparison. 

Now it is Thur 5/14/09. This is my first attempt at doing a test like this and I am not sure how to interpret it, but it seems to look ok to me. I would like all you experienced people to comment on my results please.

Stalite:
PH - 7.4
P04 - 0 to not measurable
KH - 50 ppm
GH - 180 ppm

Aged tap water:
PH - 7.4
P04 - .5
KH - 40 ppm
GH - 100 ppm

I find it very interesting that the PO4 went down in the Stalite water sample and the KH\GH went slightly up but I imagine that the difference is probably within a acceptable limits. What do you think?

Joe


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## wondabread (Apr 23, 2009)

I don't like that kh and gh went up. With even the smallest change in kh, wouldn't pH change accordingly?

I would buy a bag and test my results myself (to add to your tests) - but the nearest retailer is 25 miles away and not answering their phone right now.

My tap is liquid rock. I will wait to make any judgements until I see some more comments.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

I should probably explain the glass of water with the Stalite.
I put into the glass about 3 inches of Stalite. I filled with water and poured this back and fourth between two glasses a few times to rinse it out and it became clear. I refilled the glass to about 1 inch above the Stalite and let it set on top the refrigerator along with the other glass of water. Two days later I pour the stalite into another glass back and fourth and let it set until today.
I'm thinking in this very concentrated Stalite with very little water, the KH\GH readings would not be so different in a 18 inch tank with only 3 or 4 inches of Stalite. Especially when we do weekly water changes.
What do you think?
Joe


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I think the readings are fine, and like Hoppy suggested, you should take a picture with some of it on a piece of paper to give us an idea of the color and granularity.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Wasserpest said:


> I think the readings are fine, and like Hoppy suggested, you should take a picture with some of it on a piece of paper to give us an idea of the color and granularity.


I might be able to get a photo this weekend.
In case your wondering, the test kits I used was:
PH Aquarium Pharmaceuticals
P04, KH/GH was Nutrafin.
Nothing special, but these work good enough for me to see about how thing are going.
Is there any other test that I should do? I wish I could test for FE. But after reading that the FE test kits aren't very reliable I never bought one.
Joe


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## wondabread (Apr 23, 2009)

Is the stalite causing a change in water chemistry? If you take the numbers at face value, it is making the water harder.

Is there something that would cause in increase in gh and kh that is not stalite related?


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Don't know. I just filled a glass and set it on top of the ice box and let is set uncovered for 5 days.
But you have to remember, if you filled your tank up with substrate at about 2 inches from the top and then topped it up with water, do you think what ever substrate that you used would or could change your water parameters?
Joe


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Joetee said:


> Is there any other test that I should do?


One good test would be to throw a couple of shrimp into that stalite soup. If they survive a couple of days, you can conclude it doesn't leach anything dangerous, like copper, mercury, arsenic or potassium cyanide. :fish:

There was definitely an increase in GH, might or might not be a problem.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Wasserpest said:


> One good test would be to throw a couple of shrimp into that stalite soup. If they survive a couple of days, you can conclude it doesn't leach anything dangerous, like copper, mercury, arsenic or potassium cyanide. :fish:
> 
> There was definitely an increase in GH, might or might not be a problem.


This is a good Idea. I think I can do this.
Joe


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

One problem with the top of the refrigerator test is that I don't know the results for any other substrate. If SMS was tested that way what would the result be? Or Flourite?

My initial reaction is that the Stalite stuff is leaching something into the water, which could end up being a problem unless the aquarium gets 50% or so water changes weekly. The problem from just a GH increase would likely be negligible, but a KH increase could be a concern. But, I used SMS for about 3 years, with no known aquarium problem, and I didn't do a test of this type at all.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Go figure, no one carries it within a 100 miles of my place or my parents. Booooo!


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

The closes to my house in in Luiseville, ky. The the manufacturer will ship it to you. No idea what a 40 pound bag will cost to ship. I think I am going to order 2 bags pretty soon.
Joe


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

This is an interesting test. The detrius in my mini m is really annoying. How bout them pictures?


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Well I finally broke down and ordered 2 bags of Stalite. I called the office late on Friday evening thinking that they would be closed and low and behold, they answered. They said the lady that I need to talk to has left but gave me her cell phone. We had a very positive conversation as she took my order and said that she would call me Tuesday after the weekend to give me my total because of the shipping cost would have to be verified in the office.
She explained to me that the size offered, (0), was made possible because of the Bonsai growers use it and like it very much.
Each bag is $9.00, about 45 pounds (.75 cu ft) she said and that shipping is about $18.00 or so a bag. She'll call and let me know exactly on Tuesday.
So for about $56.00 I am getting more than enough for a 50 gallon tank. Probably enough for a 90, but I am not sure. One bag may have been enough.
I really like the look of this substrate in a glass of water. Real dark gray almost black.

If anybody would like to call and ask questions, ask for a sample, or make an order, please call:
Debbie Stinger
1-704-906-5953

Stalite office
1-877-737-6284

All the tests that I was able to do came out fine. I am really interested to see if any of the nutrients within the Stalite can become available to the plants. This would be great.

I should have it by next weekend and I hope to have it in my tank. I will then be able to put some photo's up on here.

Joe
Joe


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## wondabread (Apr 23, 2009)

I'm still very interested in your progress. The two not-so 'local' companies that carry this in my area don't answer their phone, so I may have to make a trip.

I may just buy an extra ten to try this stuff for myself.

I just picked up 3 bags of eco from amazon and I love it. But, the stalite is so much cheaper, and I can get it semi-locally, so it could end up saving me a bunch of cash.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Saving money was my objective. If the nutrients are available, great. But if they are not, or are to slow at getting to the plants, then we could just use plant sticks, etc.
Joe


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Well it's been about 3 months now since I started using the Stalite. Everything seems to be ok. Plants are growing well. Fish are all fine. I only wish the Stalite was a little darker. In the tank with the lights on, it is lighter than it is in the bag, a medium grey color. Water quality is fine. The only trouble I'm having is battling some Blue green algae maybe related to being a new tank setup. I just increased my Kno3 dosing because I was only dosing 1/2 of the E.I. recommended dose. From what I have read, low kn03 can cause blue green algae. I think I'm going to give the E.M. Erythromycin a try.
For the money, I think Stalite is a good alternative for a substrate.
Joe


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Pictures?

-Andrew


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## airborne_r6 (May 2, 2008)

At this point this thread should be locked and deleted without pictures.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

airborne_r6 said:


> At this point this thread should be locked and deleted without pictures.


I found one picture that may help.

http://www.permatill.com/Hydroponics_Water_Gardening.html


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

Another link shows that this version is 5/16" which would be rather large. I don't see it in different sizes on this website. I'll keep looking.

http://www.permatill.com/Landscape_Applications.html


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

airborne_r6 said:


> At this point this thread should be locked and deleted without pictures.


You are kidding, right? :icon_conf

Or did you just establish a rule that any thread without pictures needs to be deleted? Or all those that you deem needing pictures?

I hope you are kidding.


The OP is sharing his find and knowledge, if you are interested, do some research, buy some, take pictures if you need some.

Seems like Stalite is not inert, has an ugly color, and is difficult to source. In other words, another option for a substrate.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

I can see the Permatill version from my house! :icon_mrgr
But I don't think I'll buy it if its 5/16 of an inch and yeah it looks like blue gravel in my opinion.

the website stalite.com talks about smaller versions described as "fines" that might be nice. I sent an email asking them if there is a local source for that version. If nothing else, it might be good to mix 50/50 with Flourite Black or Eco Complete.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Sorry guys, I've been real busy lately. I will try to get some photos up. I've been trying to fight the algae due to new tank syndrum, and get it cleaned up so the photo's will be better. What I ordered from Stalite is about the size of Flourite. It is gray in color under water, much darker out of the water. It don't look to bad though after it has aged in the tank. I do wish it was much darker. 
I'll have to charge my camera batt's and I will try to get a fast shot or two.

My Swords are growing real good in it. Plants seem to be doing well. Fish don't seem to mind it either.
But still without photo's, I guess I'm just babbling huh.

Joe


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

OK I have some photo's but they arn't to good though.

The first three is of some dry Stalite with a dime laying on it that I had in a bucket. The second two are from my tank. As you can see, there is some dead Green Slime Algae that I have been fighting in the tank photo's.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Here is one more photo.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

subscribed.

Interested to see how this would compare to Turface Pro League. I think the Stalite would be preferable it has more weight to it. I tried the Fullers earth product from Home Depot a few years ago and it was just to light to hold down plants.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

I need to practice a bit with my light balance on the camera. I just don't really now much about adjusting it. I know how to adjust it but don't know if I should try + or - and how much to adjust. Also the plants all seem to be like cartoon like green and unreal.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

If you go to the - side your pictures will be underexposed (darker), + will be overexposed. In your case, you could probably go -1 EV to reduce the blown out Pennywort leaves close to the surface. That doesn't do much to the green of the plants though. Since white balance deals with blue and red hues, green isn't much affected, although going a bit redder might take the extremes off.

To get less green, some "plant gro" bulbs help (they are pink), or a little post processing in an image editor.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

I vacuumed the Stalite yesterday. I normally don't vacuum the substrate to often due the all the plants in the way. But I thought that this post would be a help to someone wanting to know a little more about its weight. Its heavy enough not to be sucked out with a normal Python vacuum. I do believe it is a little lighter than Flourite though.
Joe


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

*Sorry*



airborne_r6 said:


> At this point this thread should be locked and deleted without pictures.


I'm sorry for the long time it took me to get some photo's posted of the Stalite substrate. As you can see, my photo's of fish tanks are ill at best.

Now that I have a few posted, I would like to read any commits on the Stalite that you might have.
Thanks
Joe


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## seds (Jan 30, 2009)

HA! HA! 

WHOOPS there's images... ah darn. I really wanted to use this picture....

I looked at the chemical analysis. Looks like oxygenation of the bed is unnecessary with all those oxide compounds. (Just kidding) Lots of minerals in there. Tank is looking healthy too.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

I am surprised that after all the talk about getting photo's up, that after I did, there are not any talk any more on the use of Stalite.
I've been using it now for about 6 months. As a substrate it seems to be working real good. I am curious about the silicate levels. Could this be causing all my what looks like diatoms?
Could you look over the chemical analysis and tell me what you think?
http://www.stalite.com/uploads/ChemicalComposition.pdf

Thanks
Joe


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