# Salt convert, planted tank setup!!!



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

I was a salt guy for 15 years (700 gal, fully automatedand shut it all down a couple years ago. I’m thinking about starting a planted tank in my office. 

I am considering setting up a small tank in my office and need advice. I know NOTHING about fresh water/planted tanks!!! So let’s start with basics. Hardware - Tank,Flow, lighting, Co2

TANK
Can I (should I) use a tank with an overflow? I was thinking about the 24gal lifeguard crystal with the built in back filter? If not how do you hide mechanics?

FILTRATION
Ceramic/media? If above is suitable I can put it all in the sump water channels

FLOW
How much turnover do you need, if flow important?

LIGHTING
What is needed, what are quality lights?

CO2
Co2 or no Co2?

I don’t want to get in over my head, but I also don’t want to have a goldfish tank with an air stone. 

Most importantly, am I missing any of the hardware items.


----------



## Mark Fisher (Dec 29, 2011)

This blog is excellent for new planted tank enthusiasts: The 2Hr Aquarist


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Yeah, there is a lot of info there. That will help, but it doesn’t seems to answer the tank question. 

Can I use a tank with an overflow to hide filtration mechanics/technology? Is there any downside?


----------



## kaskiles (Sep 9, 2021)

I think lots of people have these kinds of tanks with plants. You might have to add a strainer or something for shrimp, not sure on that one.


----------



## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

I am also a former reefer. Planted tanks can be every bit as gear-driven as salt, but there is generally more margin for error, with some exceptions (like shrimp). But it doesn’t have to be.

I have a 25-gallon Waterbox mini peninsula with an overflow. Works great. I’ve had to do some modifications to the overflow — steel mesh between sponge and overflow teeth — to keep tiny fish like juvie Pygmy cories out.

The amount of flow you’ll want will vary by what fauna you’re keeping. I’ve seen a rule of thumb saying you should shoot for 10-15 gph. I use a sicce pump but tamped it down and arranged my planting to provide some still areas because I’ve got clown killies that don’t like flow.

I do love the fact that I can hide my heater in the back chamber, but you can also get the same result with a canister and an inline heater or even one with a heater built in (Oase). I’ve got a CO2 diffuser hidden behind some plants. My drop checker is the only thing that’s really visible.

Lots of good lighting options. I use the Aquaillumination LED fixture that came bundled with the tank. It provides plenty of light for the few medium-to-high light stem plants.

Again, it all depends on what you want to keep.


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Yes, you can use the tank you linked. If you already own it you are good to go. If you haven't bought it yet, I will say that you have other options. The vast majority of high tech setups (any tank with injected CO2) use canister filters. You can use lily pipes (either glass or steel) and no other equipment is in the tank. 

For CO2 you can use in tank diffuser, in line diffuser or a reactor. The last 2 are more typical if you have a canister filter or sump since you need a pump to create water flow through a tube to make them work. 

You should have 4-8 times actual turnover of tank water per hour. If using a canister filter take advertised flow and divide it in half to get actual flow. 

For lights... Kind of a rabbit hole. Depends on how much you want to spend and what features are important. Want to spend 50 dollars or less... Get a beamswork or nicrew. Have 200 dollars, go with twinstar or fluvial 3.0. Just a couple of examples and not necessarily the best either, it really depends on what you want out of the light. Need app support? Sun rise and sunset? Need just a light? Want really good colors? Want only single point source lights? Insane par? Etc

Check out green aqua, aquapros, aquarium co-op, and George farmer on YouTube for a lot of information on tanks from basic to advance.

Just some things to keep in mind. Good luck and welcome to the green side!


----------



## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

I have found co2 to be more challenging with all-in-one aquariums. You're more limited in diffusion methods and diffuser placement which can make things tricky/frustrating. I would just suggest thinking about where your return nozzle(s) are going to be and make your scape work with that (vs designing your return flow around the scape you want, which you could do with a canister).


----------



## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

Echoing EmotionalFescue, I couldn’t figure out an effective way to put the CO2 diffuser in the back chamber, but was able to hide it in my plantscape. Seems to get the job done.

What are your goals for the tank?


----------



## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

Spend a few days looking through the tank journal forum here. Find one that you like and see how they set it up. The answers to most of your questions are found here on TPT. Read first and then ask questions to get clarification. Once you start building then start your own journal so we can follow you.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have been digesting information from this forum, YouTube, and other places for a while to see if this is something I want to get into. 

I have seen that most Planted use Canister filters, actually I have not seen anyone with an AIO. Overflow is all I know so I naturally tend to gravitate there, but I am open to change.

Here are the challenges I see with a canister
1) This will be on an office cabinet that has a granite top.
a) I am planning on drilling a 1" hole in the granite and house Co2, power, Automation, ATO... in the cabinet. I am concerned that I will need to drill a larger or multiple holes if I go canister. Will a 1" hole work?​
2) The Glass supply/return look very nice and do not bother me. All these seem to be mounted on the side, but no one shows how the tubes obstruct the side view of their tank. How do you deal with this. 

3) how do you do ATO in this type tank or is that not an issue in fresh water?

@mourip I am reading, learning. If you don't want to reply, don't.


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

The-Russ said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice. I have been digesting information from this forum, YouTube, and other places for a while to see if this is something I want to get into.
> 
> I have seen that most Planted use Canister filters, actually I have not seen anyone with an AIO. Overflow is all I know so I naturally tend to gravitate there, but I am open to change.
> 
> ...


By office cabinet, do you mean you don't have access to going around the side or behind the cabinet? That's how most people do it, so I am guessing you mean this is a long counter top and the tank is somewhere in the middle? If you look at my shallow tank journal (in my signature) you can see that its possible to put a canister filter next to a tank, but it will be very obviously next to it. I hide mine behind some wood but that might not be feasible for you. A 1" hole might be enough to squeeze your hoses through if you are using 3/8 tubing (which has an outside diameter of 1/2 inch). Likely for 20 gallon tank you will want more standard 5/8" tubing which has an outside diameter of 3/4 so a single 1" hole is likely not enough. 2 and you would be golden.

Its not that all in one systems are unheard of in freshwater tanks, but rather most people are chasing an aesthetic that uses a clear back pane of glass. One of my first planted tanks was a fluval spec v which uses an all in one type filter system. Its definitely doable, but its also very limiting.

As for where to put tubing. You can just put the lily pipes on the back if it bothers you. Most tanks are designed to be viewed primarily from the front and not 3+ sides. Having the tubing on the sides is usually easier for maintenance purposes.

Most people do not bother with auto top off systems on freshwater because you need to be doing 50+% water changes each week (that's usually the minimum, I try to do 70-90%). So if your water drops an inch or 2 during the week its not a big deal, you will be doing water change too soon for it to matter.


----------



## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

The-Russ said:


> 1) This will be on an office cabinet that has a granite top.
> a) I am planning on drilling a 1" hole in the granite and house Co2, power, Automation, ATO... in the cabinet. I am concerned that I will need to drill a larger or multiple holes if I go canister. Will a 1" hole work?


For a 20+ gallon tank, I think your lines will probably be 5/8" ID, so a single 1" hole wouldn't cut it.



The-Russ said:


> 2) The Glass supply/return look very nice and do not bother me. All these seem to be mounted on the side, but no one shows how the tubes obstruct the side view of their tank. How do you deal with this.


It's all a trade off... with an overflow you don't have anything hanging off the side or back of the tank, but you're more limited visually by the box itself, the position of your return(s), and the nature of your filtration intake (all surface and no deep water). With a canister, you've got external lines and you have to choose where they go. On the side is fine to prioritize front viewing because the mirror effect will keep you from seeing them. But, as you note, kinda screws up viewing from the side. You can run the lines down the back, but will then see them from the front unless you black-film the back of the tank. Etc...



The-Russ said:


> 3) how do you do ATO in this type tank or is that not an issue in fresh water?


ATO for freshwater is really just for convenience and maintaining a clean water line on the glass. There's no salinity to maintain, so it's not important from a tank-health perspective. I've recently started putting ATOs on all my freshwater tanks both with sumps and with canisters. For the canister-filtered tanks, I just run the ATO line discretely over the side of the tank near the intake/return lines. I have been making little wooden hose holder things that sit on the edge of the tank and look pretty nice. For a 20ish gallon tank, you may be content to just top off manually.


----------



## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

The-Russ said:


> @mourip I am reading, learning. If you don't want to reply, don't.


Not sure that I understand your intention with that remark but it reads as defensive coming from someone asking for help. Hopefully I misinterpreted it.

Unfortunately there are a lot of threads started here these days by folks who could have found their own answers by a bit of upfront reading. Some literally say "Please plan my tank for me". Glad to hear that you have already done your research. From your questions that just did not seem clear.

An AIO tank sounds like a good choice. There is at least one journal thread here with a nice tank doing that. That one is DIY but contains a ton of information. I considered AIO when I thought that I would put a 16g or 25g gallon on our bedroom desk but the issues with potential water spills caused us to choose the basement. I ended up with a 75 gallon with equipment placed beneath it in a stand. With an AIO tank you can hide pretty much everything except your CO2 tank and power cords. You might add Waterbox to your AIO search.


----------



## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

My Waterbox is AIO. It‘s great. It’s a peninsula style so the chamber is on a short side so the display is clear on three viewing sides.

I haven’t really noticed any disadvantages. I like being able to see and reach inside the chamber. It’s easier to maintain than a canister.

That said, it’s really up to you.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Bootsy said:


> My Waterbox is AIO. It‘s great. It’s a peninsula style so the chamber is on a short side so the display is clear on three viewing sides.
> 
> I haven’t really noticed any disadvantages. I like being able to see and reach inside the chamber. It’s easier to maintain than a canister.
> 
> That said, it’s really up to you.


THIS IS GREAT!!! I just ordered the 24.6 gal Lifeguard AIO. 

I think I may go with the Radion Freshwater XR15 G5 Light. I am familiar with that brand in the salt world so I feel comfortable and I don't know any of the fresh water brands.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

mourip said:


> Not sure that I understand your intention with that remark but it reads as defensive coming from someone asking for help. Hopefully I misinterpreted it.


I was being a bit of a jerk. I apologize as I assumed you were being one too. I get it, people don't do their research, throw out thoughts and you never hear from them again. I am the opposite. I did saltwater for 15 years and had 30k invested in a system that had was fully automated, had a sump room that was 13' x 13' that was amazing. I know what goes into having a tank and have been researching fresh water, planted, Low/Hi Tech... for over a month and regardless of my thoughts, I need and want to hear from people that have experience. "Read first and then ask questions to get clarification" is a typical response people give on the salt forums, I have seen it for years and those people are usually not the coolest. We got off on the wrong foot. Again I apologize. 

I really liked the thread you sent. I have skimmed though it, and I will read it with more detail later. I loved how he built acrylic boxes for his filter media that can be quickly/easily removed. Very clever.

I actually have a 30 gal AIO that I used for a QT tank back in the day. It was an always on tank that I only used to QT all my fish. I kept all my fish in that tank for 30 days after they were for sure eating and without disease before I put them in my display. I don't want to use that because I want a rimless, but I wanted to hear from people that have used a AIO before I made a purchase. I purchased my tank today.

I am going to get my light soon, but I anticipate that it will be 3 months before I put water in it. I have a lot to learn. I will start my hardscape soon, but anticipate I will redo it over and over again, until I find the pieces I like and a look I like. The tank is so small, I am afraid it will be difficult to get a multi zone aquascape, but I am going to try.

Before I pull the trigger, I will have everything setup and ready. I will have all hardware installed, I will have a solution for ATO, how/where I will make RO water in my warehouse, how I will do maintenance/water changes... Once I have all that done and have set looking at the tank for a couple weeks, then I will move forward. The reason is, if I don't have a good plan, then I will make a mistake or be unhappy with my setup and tear it out/start over and I don't want to do that. ALSO, I have ZERO knowledge on Plants and or fish. I know marine and corals, but not freshwater.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

minorhero said:


> By office cabinet, do you mean you don't have access to going around the side or behind the cabinet? That's how most people do it, so I am guessing you mean this is a long counter top and the tank is somewhere in the middle? If you look at my shallow tank journal (in my signature) you can see that its possible to put a canister filter next to a tank, but it will be very obviously next to it. I hide mine behind some wood but that might not be feasible for you. A 1" hole might be enough to squeeze your hoses through if you are using 3/8 tubing (which has an outside diameter of 1/2 inch). Likely for 20 gallon tank you will want more standard 5/8" tubing which has an outside diameter of 3/4 so a single 1" hole is likely not enough. 2 and you would be golden.
> 
> Its not that all in one systems are unheard of in freshwater tanks, but rather most people are chasing an aesthetic that uses a clear back pane of glass. One of my first planted tanks was a fluval spec v which uses an all in one type filter system. Its definitely doable, but its also very limiting.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it is a long counter and the tank will be somewhere in the middle. I am going to go with the AIO because I am familiar with that style and it will be good for the space. Thank you so much for all your help. I hope you continue to offer your support.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Bootsy said:


> My Waterbox is AIO. It‘s great. It’s a peninsula style so the chamber is on a short side so the display is clear on three viewing sides.
> 
> I haven’t really noticed any disadvantages. I like being able to see and reach inside the chamber. It’s easier to maintain than a canister.
> 
> That said, it’s really up to you.


Do you have a build thread for your tank? I have searched here for AIO tanks and there are not any recent ones and the only real one was recommended to me on this thread?


----------



## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

I don’t have a build thread. Just lazy, lol. I was also frustrated when setting up because I didn’t see much out there on these types of tanks, especially since it is peninsula-shaped.

Honestly, though, it hasn’t been that different from other tanks I’ve set up — just a bit neater. 

The only thing I’ve had to do is set up a smart plug with a switch that turns off the heater when ever I turn of the pump. I forgot once and the chamber the heater was in overheated and cracked the false wall. It didn’t affect the structural integrity of the tank, but I did have to drain and seal the crack. But you may not be a space case like me.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

I have an old Apex controller from my salt days so I will remember to program that in so the same doesn’t happen to me. 

TBH, a lot of the info seems to be old and you are right there is only 1 build thread with our kind of tank which is the one noted above from @mourip , from what I saw.


----------



## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

The-Russ said:


> I have an old Apex controller from my salt days so I will remember to program that in so the same doesn’t happen to me.
> 
> TBH, a lot of the info seems to be old and you are right there is only 1 build thread with our kind of tank which is the one noted above from @mourip , from what I saw.


My Oase filter(external) has a built-in heater with a separate power cord. I use Alexa with Akasa smartplugs to employ voice commands for turning off the pump/heater together and then back on automatically. It has worked really well. I have my CO2 set for on/off on a smartplug also. It turns the solenoid on an hour before lights on and then an hour before lights off. Details in my journal. See sig below.


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

The-Russ said:


> I have an old Apex controller from my salt days so I will remember to program that in so the same doesn’t happen to me.
> 
> TBH, a lot of the info seems to be old and you are right there is only 1 build thread with our kind of tank which is the one noted above from @mourip , from what I saw.


Here is another: Tiger barb species tank (55g DIY all in one aquarium)

There are a lot that are only a few posts long, not nearly so many that go on for more then one page and unfortunately the search engine doesn't allow you to additionally filter for thread length. One common theme I saw for some of the shorter ones is that they would shut the tank down when flow proved to be too much for plants and/or fauna. Definitely keep an eye on this with your tank, you may need to take steps to muffle the flow. The fluval spec V I used (which is an all in one as are any of the fluval tanks), did not have a means of slowing flow enough for a betta. Most people would stick a sponge over the outlet to restrict flow, but there are a variety of other methods people employed to slow down the flow.


----------



## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

I’ve got my pump throttled back and heavy planting around the outflow that tamps the flow back. I think I could probably turn the flow up a bit without too much disturbance. I’ve got clown killed and ember tetras, neither of which appreciates a lot of big flow. Plants don’t move much except for the plants screening the rest of the tank and even those don’t move much.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

*THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR ADVICE!!!! *

Honestly you have been a huge help. I think I have all my questions above answered. What do y'all think of the direction I am going?

*TANK* - Lifeguard Crystal 24g AIO Rimless
*FILTRATION* - Will use AIR cavity for various media
*FLOW* - Not as important in planted as long as I cycle water multiple times an hour
*LIGHTING* - Chihiros RGB VIVID GEN 2 (I was also thinking about the Radion G15FW, but I don't see much info for planted tanks so I will go with a more industry standard)
*CO2* - Yes

*Aquascape* - I think I am leaning towards some Bansi Trees.

Here are a couple more items I could use help with:

*Fertilizer*

What type of ferts are you using, Liquid, Dry?
What brand are you using?
Is anyone using a dosing pump
is there any issue not refrigerating the ferts, if I use a dose pump
*Substrate / Soil*

What substrate are you using?
If I am building up a mound, do I do it with something cheap (lava rock) then add soil on top?


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

The-Russ said:


> *THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR ADVICE!!!! *
> 
> Honestly you have been a huge help. I think I have all my questions above answered. What do y'all think of the direction I am going?
> 
> ...


I used to recommend chihiros to folks since I was very happy with my wrgb 2. Then the light died after less then a year of service. Some other folks who bought the same light also had it die. Since the company does not really 'officially' import into the united states there was zero support (all emails ignored). I purchased a replacement part but it requires some soldering and experimentation to even attach it so I am left without a light. I'd suggest going a different direction, but only because of my own bad experience. Honestly, when it was working the light was great.

For fertilizer I use 2 different types. I have liquid Nicolg Thrive and I have dry salts I mix for a PPS-PRO method on my 120P tank. For the 120P I am using a dosing pump. Honestly that tank is growing so darn well its really turning me onto pps-pro and dosing pumps. For the regular nicolg thrive I dose it once a week after water changes. Ferts do not need to be refrigerated regardless of what you use.

For soil I use and recommend sand. I use pool filter sand because its already washed and ready to go. If you don't mind a lot of extra work, play sand also works fine and will save you a couple bucks per bag. But it comes filthy and needs to be washed about 15 times.

If you want to use aquasoil that also works, you can just use it straight or you can put like 1/4 to 1/2" in the tank and then cover it with 1.5+ inches of sand. It will eventually work itself to the surface though so I am kind of turned off to aquasoil right now. This is purely an aesthetic consideration on my part.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

minorhero said:


> I used to recommend chihiros to folks since I was very happy with my wrgb 2. Then the light died after less then a year of service. Some other folks who bought the same light also had it die. Since the company does not really 'officially' import into the united states there was zero support (all emails ignored).


Thank you a ton for this. I did research and saw others with the same issue. Further I emailed them to see if they would reply and have not got a reply. This is not the light for me.

I have been all over about what light to get. Now I think I am leaning towards the UNF Flat One+. 

Tank gets here tomorrow and I ordered a few Bonsai trees that will get here soon. They shipped, but it will take a while as it is USPS for one and I don't know for the other. Once I get the trees, I will start to plan. This is going to take a while as it is new to me and I will not fill until I am completely comfortable.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

So I pulled the trigger. I thought it would take me a couple months to do the hardscape and two months later I am filling the tank. I am going to run it a few days with only filter floss and a sponge. Next week I will add filter media and start the cycle. I am doing the cycle I am comfortable with, let it set for 3 week to a month to build bacteria. I will dose a little Ammonia... 

Here is a picture of the hardscape.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Quick update... I have never done this before and I used Dr Tims Ammonia to dose and like an idiot I did not check the ammonia level before dosing? I just followed his instructions. I went on a business trip came back and ammonia was off the chart >8. I had to do 2 large water changes and got it to around 3 - 4. Now I am officially starting my cycle. Not the end of the world, I have lots of time. There is a lot of cleanup I need to do as the soil has gotten on the riverbed..., but I will do that later. For now, testing water is my job. 

The wood is putting off a lot of tannin and it keeps my PH pretty low. I read you should not does Baking soda in planted tanks, but I did since I only need my PH to raise for the BB. I will do multiple water changes before I plant it and figure out my KH/GH then. Any recommendations?


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

The-Russ said:


> Quick update... I have never done this before and I used Dr Tims Ammonia to dose and like an idiot I did not check the ammonia level before dosing? I just followed his instructions. I went on a business trip came back and ammonia was off the chart >8. I had to do 2 large water changes and got it to around 3 - 4. Now I am officially starting my cycle. Not the end of the world, I have lots of time. There is a lot of cleanup I need to do as the soil has gotten on the riverbed..., but I will do that later. For now, testing water is my job.
> 
> The wood is putting off a lot of tannin and it keeps my PH pretty low. I read you should not does Baking soda in planted tanks, but I did since I only need my PH to raise for the BB. I will do multiple water changes before I plant it and figure out my KH/GH then. Any recommendations?
> 
> View attachment 1037734


I totally missed your previous post. If I had seen it in time I would have told you you don't need ammonia dosing in an aquasoil tank because the aquasoil will release plenty of ammonia all by itself.

Also definitely do not go dosing baking soda. I suppose you already did, but definitely do not do it again. Many people purposely run their tanks with a ph of 4 to 5 and their bacteria are doing just fine. So just leave it be and your bacteria will grow just fine. Alternatively you can dose bottled bacteria to jumpstart your cycle a bit.

Get used to aquasoil being in your river bed, its definitely not going to get better once you have livestock in the tank  This is one reason I won't do a formal path in an aquasoil tank and instead am just using straight sand.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Thanks @minorhero, I will not dose Baking soda again . I know that the Bacteria is happiest in neutral water so I did it to try to get it running. I have a long time before But plants in the tank and plan to do multiple water changes before hand so I assume there will be no issue. Right now my PH is around 6.5. 

I am on day 3 since I reduced my Ammonia from off the chart to about 3-4ppm and there is no sign of the cycle starting so I am waiting, but I have plenty to do. I will set up my ATO this week, once I get some free time. My tank evaporates 3 solo cups a day so it is not difficult to replenish, but last week I was gone for 3 days and it was an issue. I also need to get my CO2 hooked up... Lots to do and the cycle give me time to do it.

There are quite a bit of tannins in the water. will that stop of will I need to use something in the filter to remove it once I want it to be clear. Right now, I don't care.

Russ


----------



## niget2002 (Dec 20, 2020)

I came from a highly automated reef setup too. Welcome.

I use Nilocg Thrive+ on my tank. I dose it daily using a doser instead of doing a couple of pumps a few times a week. It's not refrigerated, but I do have a mixing magnet that gets ran prior to injecting the dose.

I'm considering switching to hand mixed salts and a second dosing pump, but haven't read enough about it to make that decision yet. The all-in-one(ish) dose seems to work well for my plants.

I top off my tank every other day or so just to keep the water high enough in the tank for the probes I have mounted on the edge. I'm a fan of automation and data collection, so I have a small microcontroller doing some stuff on the tank.

I've thought the AIOs always looked nice. Good luck.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

*TANK UPDATE!!!*

My Ammonia is now 0 and my nitrites are nearing 2. I have been cycling for about 4 weeks and used Dr. Tims Ammonia. I have not used any aquarium light this whole time, but I do have florescent light on 8+ hrs a day.
I have what I assume is some bacteria issues on the trees (white & black fuzzy stuff). This is easily removed with my fingers. However, there is another orange ?algae? that just developed on the tops of the trees. This is not easily removed with fingers.
Once cycled, I will do a few water changes to remove nitrates and to remove the tannins from the water. What should I do, if anything to address the bacteria/algae issue.

I have NO IDEA what to plant, when to plant, or how much to plant. Suggestions?

Here is the alge/bacteria stuff I was speaking of. This is easily removed with fingers


















Here is the new stuff that is not easily removed


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

The-Russ said:


> *TANK UPDATE!!!*
> 
> My Ammonia is now 0 and my nitrites are nearing 2. I have been cycling for about 4 weeks and used Dr. Tims Ammonia. I have not used any aquarium light this whole time, but I do have florescent light on 8+ hrs a day.
> I have what I assume is some bacteria issues on the trees (white & black fuzzy stuff). This is easily removed with my fingers. However, there is another orange ?algae? that just developed on the tops of the trees. This is not easily removed with fingers.
> ...


The stuff on the wood is a fungus that is pretty common to new wood underwater. If it bothers you, you can use an old toothbrush to remove it. BUT once you get shrimp/snails/fish in the tank they will eat it and it will be gone within a few days to a few weeks. 

So in other words, you can ignore it, even though it is quite unsightly.

As for how many plants to buy, well it depends on what style of aquascape you are going for and budget considerations. Generally though I recommend covering 2/3rds of a tank with plants. Something like stem plants will come in bunches if you order online, typically 5 to 10 plants per bunch. In local fish stores you can get a much better idea of how much and what quality you are buying so I HIGHLY recommend buying from a fish store. Also know that whatever plants you buy will probably not be the permanent plants for this tank. Chances are that some plants will do really well and others will die. Also you may find yourself really enjoying certain types of plants while really hating others. Only personal experience here will tell you. So in other words, if I were you, I'd buy easily available plants from a local fish store and hold off on things that are overly expensive or hard to obtain until you get the swing of things. To be clear, you can plant literally at any time, including right now. You do not need to wait for the cycle to end and indeed, plants help to end the cycle quicker. Once you do add plants you will want to start regular fertilizer dosage and light schedules. Hopefully helpful. Good luck!


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

minorhero said:


> e


Thank you so Much. Unfortunately there is not an LFS in my area that is good at fresh water aquariums. there are a lot of LFS that focus on reef, but not planted tanks. One is near me that focus on fresh, but has very poor looking plants and is very dirty. Therefore, I will buy Tissue culture online.

I need to wait a bit because I am not completely ready. I have the CO2 ready to setup, but not the Ferts it is all ordered and should be here soon. 

Here is an image of my planning. 
The goal is to have a variety of different plants, color, and texture. In the image I have color coded areas of my tank.

*YELLOW* – Carpet Plant (Hemianthus Callitrichoides)

I feel like I may something to break up carpet? See red dashes in front of rocks sitting on soil
*GREEN* – Tree Covering (Vesicularia ferriei)
*RED* – Variety areas

Left side - Anubias Nana Pinto out front
Something else behind it? Or reverse

Right side something that would add color and stick to the rock under the roots of big tree look like shade
*BLUE* – Something nice in the back that adds color and texture

There is also a little stick tree in the middle I don’t know what to do with. It would be nice to make it stand out. Also there is that cave…?


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Plant options are literally legion. I'll throw some out there but, I wouldn't want to give you the impression I am offering the best options, merely ones I am familiar with and know work in my water. Your water WILL be different. 

Things to break up the carpet could be blyxa japonica. It will grow as grassy bushes and is an easy grower that doesn't spread much on it's own.

For the red option that would grow under the tree, I would go with a smaller variety of bucephalandra.

And for the back area you would be looking at either something very green and fluffy like myriophyllum, something green a wavy like giant hair grass, or something red like Alternanthera reineckii or rotala

One thing I will say is that you are definitely setting yourself up for a very high maintenance tank. That may be your goal, or not, just thought I should say so incase you were thinking otherwise. Moss on the trees by itself is a nightmare to maintain because it will need to be trimmed or risk falling off and the trimmings sink instead of float (other plant trimmings will float). You will also have a hard time maintaining a carpet under the trees because the trees will shade out the plants.

Another thing to consider (not sure if you already solved this or not), but those trees are going to want to float when you fill the tank. If they are glued to big enough rocks they will stay down (or if heavy rocks are placed ontop of them), otherwise they will bob around in your tank for weeks until they water log. I routinely boil my wood which stops the weird fungus from forming on new wood when flooded for the first time, and also makes them sink right away. BUT those trees are manufactured products, meaning they are not all one piece of wood but separate pieces that have already been glued together. I do not know if they can survive being boiled for an hour or two (but I strongly suspect they can not). 

Hopefully this is helpful, good luck!


----------



## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

So you went with the WRGB2 after all? Those acrylic leg stands are nice.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Jaguar said:


> So you went with the WRGB2 after all? Those acrylic leg stands are nice.


Yeah!!! I haven’t used it much, but it looks good, seems to be bright, and it is controllable. 
The acrylic legs look so much better than the wire ones.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Thank You @minorhero!!! I glanced at your suggestions and will figure out exactly what I’m doing very soon. Maintenance is not what I want…. How often will I have to trim the moss and what other option do I have?

Trees are glued and not floating , and I did not boil for the exact reason you mentioned. Yesterday, I used an elec toothbrush to clean the crap off trees. Sine the tank is in my office I’ll se how it looks this AM.


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

The-Russ said:


> Thank You @minorhero!!! I glanced at your suggestions and will figure out exactly what I’m doing very soon. Maintenance is not what I want…. How often will I have to trim the moss and what other option do I have?
> 
> Trees are glued and not floating , and I did not boil for the exact reason you mentioned. Yesterday, I used an elec toothbrush to clean the crap off trees. Sine the tank is in my office I’ll se how it looks this AM.


Unfortunately with this style of scape you are always going to have maintenance issues. Moss will need to be trimmed every 4 or so months most likely. But it will leak moss onto your substrate and into other plants throughout that time as well. The only thing you can do to try and make things easier is to use marimo moss balls for the trees instead of a true moss. Basically you break them up into tufts and glue (or better yet, wedge) them into place. They also need to be trimmed but it will take a more then a year before you need to do anything, and they don't spread like moss does. 

Assuming you are happy with the scape, just run with it for a while and if 5 or 6 months from now you are like 'this is not what I was looking for' you will be in a much better place experience-wise to redo the tank into something you do like. Some folks look at rescapes with a lot of hesitation, but they really can be a lot of fun and don't need to take more then a few hours to accomplish.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

minorhero said:


> Assuming you are happy with the scape, just run with it for a while and if 5 or 6 months from now you are like 'this is not what I was looking for' you will be in a much better place experience-wise


Great advice, I know nothing and have no idea what I am doing or what I like or don’t like. It has been a fun journey though.


----------



## Jekk (Jan 11, 2022)

I have a large Java moss tree and yes, the trimming is a challenge. The offcuts sink and manage to spread everywhere even with the filters off. You then have to siphon all areas to pick up trimmed pieces.
I have to trim mine every 2-4 weeks depending on what direction it decides to grow in. A net to catch as you trim helps a little.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Jekk said:


> I have a large Java moss tree and yes, the trimming is a challenge. The offcuts sink and manage to spread everywhere even with the filters off. You then have to siphon all areas to pick up trimmed pieces.
> I have to trim mine every 2-4 weeks depending on what direction it decides to grow in. A net to catch as you trim helps a little.


Would you put the moss there again? How much time are we talking? What other option is there for the tops of the trees?


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

edit: forum problems ignore this post.


----------



## Jekk (Jan 11, 2022)

The-Russ said:


> Would you put the moss there again? How much time are we talking? What other option is there for the tops of the trees?


Absolutely. Despite it being a challenge, I enjoy the maintenance work of a planted tank. All the trimming and shaping and cleaning, I find it therapeutic and satisfying. The whole process including the water change takes about 1 - 1.5 hours once a week.

I believe someone far more experienced (than me) suggested Marimo balls as an alternative? They would be much less maintenance I assume.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Quick update!!! 

I planted some Dwarf Tears and Buse a couple weeks ago and it is growing quite well. Since then I have also added some moss to my trees. Below is a picture of the day I planted and then 13 days of growth. The only creatures I have living in my tank are 10 "Panda" Caridina shrimp. They are black and blue and were about 3/8" long when I got them. They seem to be doing well and growing, but I never see all 10 at one time. I think I am going to get 10 more. One thing to note. I have my lights running for 8 hours and have never cleaned my glass. Today I get some aqua scaping tools and I will trim the baby tears and plant any large pieces. I used to have a drop checker in the tank, but I understand the CO2 chemistry much better and now only use PH as my CO2 measurement.

Day 1









Day 13


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

Today is day 14 and I plan on trimming the dwarf tears and try to plant the clipping in empty spaces. There is 1 area that the roots are long and I don’t want that. If I cut the leaves off will new leaves develop from the roots? 

I got some pimped out tools. Any thoughts on how to keep them closed when I lose the little plastic bit? Also a couple tools don’t have the plastic pieces.


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

If you can trim top leaves while leaving lower leaves, that is best. 

I never worry about those little plastic things that keep the tweezers closed. I just store them without that stuff. If they are nice quality, they won't rust. If they are lower quality, they will develop rust unless dried after use.


----------



## The-Russ (Dec 8, 2021)

minorhero said:


> I never worry about those little plastic things that keep the tweezers closed. I just store them without that stuff.
> 
> Yeah, I’m mostly concerned with my spring loaded scissors. I think I will try a piece of airline tube. On pair didn’t come with anything to keep the closed so it snags getting it into the bag.


----------

