# Apex uses in freshwater planted aquarium



## jnboone (Aug 1, 2011)

I'd love to hear what different things you're using your Apex to control/monitor. Thinking seriously about getting one. I've been to the Apex forum, and there's no freshwater section - but have searched posts and seen some things people are using them for. I can't tell for sure, but it looks like if I buy the new ApexEL, I may be able to eliminate the purchase of a pH controller and the Kessil controller for my lights - which will help offset the cost of the controller. Just trying to see if there are other costs it may offset, or just things I could monitor/control that I'd like to.


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## samue202 (Apr 20, 2015)

I have two on my saltwater tanks, while there is a bit more to control there you could definitely do quite a bit with freshwater. Thinking timing and ramping of lights, ph control, temperature control (really dialed into to +- .1 degrees), power head control if you use it to disperse CO2. It's a great tool for redundancy as well, it has saved my tanks from 2-3 disasters.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

You can do whatever you want with the apex. Using it on freshwater vs saltwater is irrelevant.

You can do the same level of automation on a freshwater tank just like a saltwater one. Some of things I can think of.

Light control
pH control
CO2 control
Temp control
auto top off
auto ro water creation
pump control
auto feeding tied with pump control

The only thing where I feel they dropped the ball with the EL is no 0-10V connections. With that it would have been the perfect freshwater unit.


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## jnboone (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks! Yes I was thinking heater control and powerhead control (but if I go with EcoTech MP40QD's it won't save me any money because they come with a controller, and it will actually cost me money to buy the additional module, but I will have the convenience of controlling all that stuff from a single place). I will ultimately be going to a new tank with a sump, and would be able to control the pumps in the sump as well - currently running FX6's.

I like the thought of the leak detector - again another module/more cost, but it's a 240 gallon tank, and I think that's a worthwhile expense. What I'm wondering is do people monitor nitrates, kH/gH, or other things that I haven't thought of. I've seen auto top off (which would be nice to have someday), dosing of ferts (which would be nice, but not sure if I could control a Jebao doser - I'm not gonna spend the money for the Apex one for freshwater ferts). I'd love to also monitor ammonia and nitrites, but haven't heard of anyone doing that. I see value in monitoring TDS (and think I've seen that done) as a way to alert me when I need to do water changes (I try to keep them to a minimum).

Bump: I hate electrical! What would you use 0-10v for? Sorry, I'm just ignorant when it comes to electricity!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Dimming lights


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

jnboone said:


> Thanks! Yes I was thinking heater control and powerhead control (but if I go with EcoTech MP40QD's it won't save me any money because they come with a controller, and it will actually cost me money to buy the additional module, but I will have the convenience of controlling all that stuff from a single place). I will ultimately be going to a new tank with a sump, and would be able to control the pumps in the sump as well - currently running FX6's.
> 
> I like the thought of the leak detector - again another module/more cost, but it's a 240 gallon tank, and I think that's a worthwhile expense. What I'm wondering is do people monitor nitrates, kH/gH, or other things that I haven't thought of. I've seen auto top off (which would be nice to have someday), dosing of ferts (which would be nice, but not sure if I could control a Jebao doser - I'm not gonna spend the money for the Apex one for freshwater ferts). I'd love to also monitor ammonia and nitrites, but haven't heard of anyone doing that. I see value in monitoring TDS (and think I've seen that done) as a way to alert me when I need to do water changes (I try to keep them to a minimum).
> 
> Bump: I hate electrical! What would you use 0-10v for? Sorry, I'm just ignorant when it comes to electricity!


For dosing fertz I actually prefer the BRS single doser 1.1ml/per min unit. Much harder for it to fail and it's a beefy unit. Those are easily controlled with an Apex.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-2-part-doser-1-1-ml-per-minute.html
If you wait for black friday they are usually around 60 bucks or less.

Also an ATO is not optional when using a sump.

Also you don't have to go with MP40's. You can buy a WAV pump or two or three and connect them to the Apex. WAV pump is $175 each and nothing extra required if you get the ApexEL as they connect directly to the energy bar.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/wav-single-pump-neptune-systems.html

I have a Neptune COR-20 pump and it's a nice unit. Better than the Vectra's for less money.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cor-20-intelligent-return-pump-neptune-systems.html

If you go with the Apex I also recommend you get yourself a cheap Amazon Fire tablet and mount it on your stand for a visible control center where you can do all the stuff in Fusion and see all parameters.


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## DimitriSF (Oct 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> Dimming lights


In the case of Kessils, you can use 0-10V to control the color too.

The EL doesn't have the VDM control. Neither does the Apex Jr.

But, you can just buy a separate Neptune VDM module, to add such 0-10V support. It's plug-and-play. Nothing to configure. Just connect the module to your Apex and it instantly works.

It costs $100, new, on Marine Depot (or $50-60, used, on eBay).

Just remember, regardless of what Apex controller you buy (even one that has built-in 0-10V support) you still need to buy Kessil's Neptune Apex cable, if you want to control the color and intensity. Marine Depot sells them for $20.

(Or, if you're so inclined, and have spare cables laying around, you can just splice together an RJ45 and 3.5mm cable; the schematics are published on Neptune's site).

I control two Kessil A-80s, with one Apex Jr controller + one VDM module + one Kessil Neptune cable.

Technically, one would need 2 such Kessil-to-Neptune cables, but I was cheap, and decided to just buy one cable, and daisy chain the 2nd Kessil with a generic 3.5mm male-to-male connector I had laying around.

Also, to be clear: you don't even need the VDM module or controller cable, if you don't intend to automatically controller the color/intensity. If you just want to run the Kessils on a schedule, just plug them into any available Apex outlets.


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## jnboone (Aug 1, 2011)

great advice. Thank you!


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## reddhawkk (Dec 28, 2011)

I just got an Apex EL for a tropheus tank I am setting up. I am totally looking forward to setting this up. They also have a PAR monitoring kit in case you want to check on your lighting.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

I don't think that any of the apex models (or any other aquarium controller) has parameter monitoring built in. BUT, this device is getting a lot of attention on reef forums: https://www.reefkinetics.com/

It apparently can handle multiple different company's test kits and can do SW and FW testing (including titration tests). $700 (the expected price) is pretty hefty though.


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## MrT. (May 21, 2018)

aubie98 said:


> I don't think that any of the apex models (or any other aquarium controller) has parameter monitoring built in. BUT, this device is getting a lot of attention on reef forums: https://www.reefkinetics.com/
> 
> 
> It apparently can handle multiple different company's test kits and can do SW and FW testing (including titration tests). $700 (the expected price) is pretty hefty though.


APEX has a PAR Monitoring Kit that sold as an add on module for $300.00. 
The Reefkinetics Reef Bot is strictly for testing for Nitrates, phosphates, etc, etc. That is all it does.

The APEX system allows your to monitor a lot of different parameters, mentioned above by other contributors, but what I really like is that it can automatically do something about a problem it detects. As an example on my Fresh water planted tank I recently took apart both external cannister filters for cleaning and about an hour after I put everything back together and left the house to go to an out of town meeting, one of the filters developed an external leak. Typically Not Good! However, my APEX immediately shut off this canister and sent me a text and an email letting me know that I had a problem with this aquarium and specifically what went wrong and what it did to help the situation. This was a life saver for me and my fish as this tank is located upstairs. If the canister had not been shut off the 300+gph of flow would have emptied this tank rather quickly and I would have incurred a lot of water damage to my house and probably lost most of the fish. Instead I knew about the issue, it had a temporary fix and I was able to continue on with my meeting. When I returned home later that night there was less than a quarter of a cup of water beneath the aquarium and no damage whatsoever to the floors or downstairs ceilings and all of the fish where healthy. So for the most part, I love the APEX system and for me it was money well spent. I love all of the automation and monitoring it can do, but my only complaint is that Neptune Systems has made it very clear that they are in the Salt Water Reef and Fish market only. Fortunately most of their products will work for freshwater but they do not make anything specifically geared towards freshwater aquariums.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

MrT. said:


> APEX has a PAR Monitoring Kit that sold as an add on module for $300.00.
> The Reefkinetics Reef Bot is strictly for testing for Nitrates, phosphates, etc, etc. That is all it does.
> 
> The APEX system allows your to monitor a lot of different parameters, mentioned above by other contributors, but what I really like is that it can automatically do something about a problem it detects. As an example on my Fresh water planted tank I recently took apart both external cannister filters for cleaning and about an hour after I put everything back together and left the house to go to an out of town meeting, one of the filters developed an external leak. Typically Not Good! However, my APEX immediately shut off this canister and sent me a text and an email letting me know that I had a problem with this aquarium and specifically what went wrong and what it did to help the situation. This was a life saver for me and my fish as this tank is located upstairs. If the canister had not been shut off the 300+gph of flow would have emptied this tank rather quickly and I would have incurred a lot of water damage to my house and probably lost most of the fish. Instead I knew about the issue, it had a temporary fix and I was able to continue on with my meeting. When I returned home later that night there was less than a quarter of a cup of water beneath the aquarium and no damage whatsoever to the floors or downstairs ceilings and all of the fish where healthy. So for the most part, I love the APEX system and for me it was money well spent. I love all of the automation and monitoring it can do, but my only complaint is that Neptune Systems has made it very clear that they are in the Salt Water Reef and Fish market only. Fortunately most of their products will work for freshwater but they do not make anything specifically geared towards freshwater aquariums.


I meant parameters as in chemical parameters of the water. I know that Apex systems can monitor other parameters (PAR, temp, pH, salinity, etc.). I"m not recommending the reef bot as a substitute for the apex (or really recommending it at all, just thought it was a neat niche product).


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Who needs to monitor nitrates enough that they need a device? In fact why is nitrate even monitored at all when you supposed to be doing a 50% WC once a week to reset the fertz anyway.


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## MrT. (May 21, 2018)

gus6464 said:


> Who needs to monitor nitrates enough that they need a device? In fact why is nitrate even monitored at all when you supposed to be doing a 50% WC once a week to reset the fertz anyway.


The Reef Bot is designed specifically for Saltwater Fish and Reef Aquariums. These Reefers don't use the Estimative Index mythology so they wouldn't do 50% water changes once a week to reset Ferts because the IE is specifically designed for freshwater planted Aquariums. Nitrates are far more difficult to control in Saltwater and Reef Aquariums with corals in particular being very sensitive to them.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

MrT. said:


> The Reef Bot is designed specifically for Saltwater Fish and Reef Aquariums. These Reefers don't use the Estimative Index mythology so they wouldn't do 50% water changes once a week to reset Ferts because the IE is specifically designed for freshwater planted Aquariums. Nitrates are far more difficult to control in Saltwater and Reef Aquariums with corals in particular being very sensitive to them.


My comment was meant strictly for freshwater folk. I know why you would need such device in saltwater.


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## MrT. (May 21, 2018)

aubie98 said:


> I meant parameters as in chemical parameters of the water. I know that Apex systems can monitor other parameters (PAR, temp, pH, salinity, etc.). I"m not recommending the reef bot as a substitute for the apex (or really recommending it at all, just thought it was a neat niche product).


Okay, got it and my bad. I agree with you about the Reef Bot being a neat bit of gear but scores rather low in the cost vs. benefit for freshwater aquariums but there are some who do want to live the life of George Jetson and have everything done automatically by computers.


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## jnboone (Aug 1, 2011)

gus6464 said:


> Who needs to monitor nitrates enough that they need a device? In fact why is nitrate even monitored at all when you supposed to be doing a 50% WC once a week to reset the fertz anyway.


Some of us dose the PPS Pro method to minimize the need for water changes. I'm a low maintanence kind of guy


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

MrT. said:


> Okay, got it and my bad. I agree with you about the Reef Bot being a neat bit of gear but scores rather low in the cost vs. benefit for freshwater aquariums but there are some who do want to live the life of George Jetson and have everything done automatically by computers.


A couple of months ago i was toying around with setting up a mixed reef tank and watched a bunch of the BRS videos on setting up their 160 gallon tank. I was really blown away at the testing schedule they were recommending - KH testing daily!?! My FW tanks are pretty much on cruise control right now, sure I've got to tinker a bit and I do weekly water changes, but it the maintenance schedule BRS was advertising was daunting. I think I heard at one time you could expect a 80/20 split in terms of maintenance and sitting back and enjoying the tank. It's not nearly like that for FW tanks (at least mine); so I can definitely see something like the reefbot being more enticing to the casual reef hobbyist vs a planted tank hobbyist.


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## someguy (Nov 22, 2011)

Another advantage of a controller like Apex is illustrated by my experience Thursday. I had someone do a water change for me bc I’m out of town. He forgot to turn my sump pump and circulation pump back on. I could know that and recognize that through the webpage and turn them on from 800 miles away!

Here’s what I use Apex for in my planted tanks:
Monitor pH, temp in 2 tanks
Control by time and pH CO2 infusion (I’ve gassed fish before using Apex)
Control timing and speed of a circulation pump (Maxspect Gyre)
Dosing liquid fertilizers via Apex DOS
Control time of UV sterilizer which I run only at night
Auto top off (The Neptune Apex ATK has been finicky. I might suggest you try a different one)
Timing of various lights
I get email and text alarms if pH or temps are out of range or if pumps are left off too long.

I plan to add a leak detector.

Overall I’ve been satisfied with the Apex. Tech support has been reasonably responsive and helpful except for the ATK top off pump.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

jnboone said:


> What I'm wondering is do people monitor nitrates, kH/gH, or other things that I haven't thought of. I've seen auto top off (which would be nice to have someday), dosing of ferts (which would be nice, but not sure if I could control a Jebao doser - I'm not gonna spend the money for the Apex one for freshwater ferts). I'd love to also monitor ammonia and nitrites, but haven't heard of anyone doing that. I see value in monitoring TDS (and think I've seen that done) as a way to alert me when I need to do water changes (I try to keep them to a minimum).





jnboone said:


> Some of us dose the PPS-Pro method to minimize the need for water changes. I'm a low maintenance kind of guy


 Complexity carries expense in purchasing, calibrations, long term servicing and also increased chance of defects and irregularities. 

If I could choose from NO3, PO4, K, Mg, Ca, S, Fe, Mn, B, Zn, Mo, Cu, TDS, pH, KH and GH sensors, it would be the TDS. The TDS probe is the cheapest, fastest, last forever and requires the least maintenance. It gives warnings about something needing attention. From experience, it is usually the same trigger, either over fertilization or leaching substrate, rocks or decoration.


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