# Chaos' 20 Gallon Long



## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

I'm just getting started on my second attempt at a nice planted tank and I am committed to getting this right. Last time I never got good plant growth (epic algae - leading to jokes along the lines of "Chaos' tank is right") and took down the tank after it sprung a leak.

This is my setup so far (thanks again to Darkblade48 who helped a lot with this):
Acrylic 20g long,
Coralife T5 lamp, 
2 bags, black flourite sand. 
Eheim ecco 2232
50W heater ( left from my 12g, this enough?)

Planned:
Pressurized CO2
HC and maybe Dwarf Grass
Lemon tetras
some shrimp, whatever I can get probably. 


Right now I am planning on emmersed HC growth (I had lots of trouble with it not rooting last time) and am looking for some imput on what to do with the rest of the layout. I like the iwagumi look but realize it is quite difficult to pull off. My main question is, as a beginner, are my chances of success significantly better if I go fairly heavily planted?

At the moment I am planning to order plants for emmersed growth asap. Also, I collected some local rocks and need advice on weather or not to get more (based on deciding iwagumi vs heavily planted). 

And now for some pics:










I just put all the rocks in there, this isnt a suggested layout. I will head back for more rocks this weekend if it makes sense to do so. 





































In the very bottom left there is a sticker which says 'Clear for life" the aquarium brand. Any ideas how I can get it off without scratching things?


Id love some input. 

Chaos.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

The black flourite sand is beautiful. I haven't seen many tanks with this substrate and I am intrigued to see the HC growing in it.


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> The black flourite sand is beautiful. I haven't seen many tanks with this substrate and I am intrigued to see the HC growing in it.


Thanks, I am hoping the plants root in it well. Last time all my HC just floated away. Clearly it wont be a problem during emmersed growth though and that should get it rooted well anyway. I think the green on black should look pretty nice.

I went ahead and ordered the HC and hairgrass so I will hopefully receive them Friday and can do some planting over the weekend. 

Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

So, I spent a bunch of time looking at Nature Aquarium contest winning tanks and feeling intimidated earlier and started playing with my layout (and limited hardscape). What i ended up with seems a bit non traditional, or would be different from what I have seen, but I am trying to incorporate at least a bit of what I learned about composition from photography classes. 




























So, first the white line is just a midline for perspective. I am thinking the following for plants. Im just guessing that there are plants like this for 3-5 so suggestions would be great. 

1. HC
2. hairgrass
3. a taller wide blade grass
4. a nice red plant, 8" tall
5. Something tall and green, mostly. I will have to find a pic of one that I like, but may be signifcantly too large. 

The kind of idea here is that the plants (3-5) kind of slope up following the lines on two of the rocks. 

Also, whatever i do I want the lemon tetras to have a good bit of open space which is part of why I have nearly the whole left side open, while the right should be good for hiding the heater and such. 

Chaos


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

looks like a good plan! i like the slope up on one side. i have a couple suggestions for your undecided plants
3. Blyxa japonica, c. wendtii, or some sort of sword
4. L. aromatica or ludwigia
5. rotala ( i like them all personally)


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## roznalos (Aug 18, 2008)

I would get bigger rocks, since the DHG would cover most of them. Plus, the rocks are way to the left. I would move them about 3-5 inches to the right. Or, if you're getting more rocks, I would get bigger ones to place on the right side side. Make your tank asymmetrical. It looks better that way.

Tip would be base your tank from a tank that you admire.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Yes, bigger rocks definitely needed with DHG. Some more rocks extending to the right would be good as well.


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, thanks for the feedback. 

*JannaH* - I think the L. aromatica is exactly the plant I was thinking about for five. I love the colors towards the tips. I do wonder how tall it gets (couldn't find a reference) and if I trim it to keep it the 12" or so my tank will allow if I will get that great color. I sure hope so. 

*
malaybiswas and xximanoobxx* - Im going to go 'rock shopping' again Saturday and see what i find. I kept finding cool rocks that ended up being mostly buried and therefore way to large, or so it seemed. These look smaller in place. Still, I think they would stay visible if they are kind of a boundary containing the DHG. The one in the back will get covered, but thats probably ok. I think i will also play around with some other scattered rocks in the HC area. I wish i had more sand so the HC could be made less flat. 


Also, the plants come tomorrow and i have an emmersed growth question. Should I mix up some water with ferts and get that into the sand or use to spray the plants?

Thanks, Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Plants in the mail today


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey, there was a hitchiker on my plants, a small red worm, couldn't get a better pick without a microscope (thats HC in the water). I assume there are others, allready in the tank. Is this an issue at all? 

Chaos


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

may be tubifex?
check this thread http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/40061-whats-bug-how-recognize-them.html


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

JennaH said:


> may be tubifex?
> check this thread http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/40061-whats-bug-how-recognize-them.html


Hey, that's a great thread thanks. I cant tell, because it is so small if it is smooth like the tubiflex or if its segmented like a bloodworm, but that's pretty reassuring that its not probably dangerous. 


So, I went ahead and planted the tank and think it went pretty well, though I probably seprated the first pot of HC into pieces much small than needed, but probably didnt hurt anything. I really am amazed by how far you can spread out those little pots. 

Now its time for me to be learn some be patient and also figure out all the things I dont have yet, CO2 and Canopy in particular.




























So, I have the following ferts. Should I be using any of these now?



















Chaos


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## mumushummus (Sep 16, 2009)

nice black on black with the HC on top you got there


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## leaf (Jun 27, 2009)

Nice goodies you got there, chaos! Big :thumbsup: to the dry start method. 
You probably could've planted the hc even thinner. Some would even recommend cutting each stem into multiple pieces. 
It doesn't matter much though, because once your hc starts running you won't be able to stop it!

Goodluck!
-leaf


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Seeing the tank on that lovely desk reminds me of when I had a 10 gallon on top of an oak bookcase. Where it was I have deep water stains. For when you put you hands in and out water drips on the wood. You may want to put something under or in front of the tank to protect the wood of the desk. It looks like is solid maple.

For ferts I would start with the potassium sulfate.


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hilde said:


> Seeing the tank on that lovely desk reminds me of when I had a 10 gallon on top of an oak bookcase. Where it was I have deep water stains. For when you put you hands in and out water drips on the wood. You may want to put something under or in front of the tank to protect the wood of the desk. It looks like is solid maple.
> 
> For ferts I would start with the potassium sulfate.


Thanks, I like the desk quite a bit and will generally put a towel down when messing with the tank. I got this for free and it would need a lot of refinishing to be nice, but I probably should avoid doing more damage. 

For K2SO4, I am obviously not dosing a whole tank, would just mix up a solution to drip on the plants so what concentration makes sense for that?


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

leaf said:


> ... once your hc starts running you won't be able to stop it!
> 
> Goodluck!
> -leaf


That kind of sounds like a problem I would like to have. 

To document this for myself and determine if there is growth Ive decided to go the picture route, though ive got so much condensation that only top down would work. On one very small plantlet I can see a difference vs the photos from thursday. (by the way I put a bunch of photos together into the panorama using a free program called AutoStitch. 

Also, I just commissioned a canopy ( I have noticed its not a popular idea for a tank which is rimless, but I am going to use one ) which should be done by the time I flood. 

Condensation :icon_lol: - Also I mixed up some ferts in water and sprayed down everything today, Some of the higher HC was yellowing a bit compared to the rest. 









So, We can see some growth here very quick which is impressive to me. Also, HC apparently gets more 'focused' over time.











November 5, 2009 - 










More pics to come as things fill in. 


Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

So, I noticed some algae starting to grow in the 1mm or so of water I have, Happily not on the plants but I would bet on it spreading quick. I kind of buried it, and hope that will slow things down. 

Thoughts? Would be kind of hard to get the rest of the water unless I remove the plastic wrap for a few days.


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## leaf (Jun 27, 2009)

I wouldn't really be worried about algae since it can't really proliferate emersed and doesn't seem to effect plant growth. A little excel in the spray bottle definitely wouldn't hurt however. If the water level gets too high from misting use some airline and siphon it out.


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Another week and more HC growth. Again, not that exciting generally, but I am happy to see growth. 















November 5, 2009 - 









Nov 7, 2009 - 









Nov 14, 2009










Chaos


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## husonfirst (Sep 12, 2009)

Can't wait to see the tank when it's done. I like the time lapse pictures.


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

husonfirst said:


> Can't wait to see the tank when it's done. I like the time lapse pictures.


Hey, thanks. I cant wait either. Ive been trying to figure out some kind of plant list that makes sense and am expecting to flood in 2 or 3 weeks, I hope. 


So, I noticed that my hair grass has not been doing great, probably because each of the bunches were stuck together so i uprooted them all and spent probably too much time separating all of the blades, ending up with more bunches than I started with and removing the dead blades so things are looking better on that front. 










Also, I am getting two kinds of algae growing. One grows on the sand in the back and looks brown, but i can cover that with other sand. On the front edges I am getting a green variety. Probably no big deal, but any thoughts are always great. Also, I decided to spray everything down with just tap water, vs my fert water. 










Back again, by ... uhhh.... popular acclaim, is the closeup on that not so small plantlet which shows some great progress. 













Finally, the full tank time lapse


November 5, 2009 - 









Nov 7, 2009 - 









Nov 14, 2009









Nov 17, 2009










Also, its getting to be the time to buy some equipment\supplies, a bunch of which I dont know where to find it. Ill need a CO2 tank/regulator/diffuser/drop checker. Also, a power strip/timer/plug in GFI. A spraybar (probably with the filter I got). Thermometer. Probably missing a fert of some kind, test kits. 

Im ok with some of this and will start asking questions on other things. 




Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

Hope you are enjoying the run-up to the holiday (if in the US). 

I think I have decided on the CO2 issue. I am going to go for one of the green leaf aquariums regulators, either the Primo or Ultimate. I see the difference in price there, but not so sure if the extra 40 for smith is worth it. I will also get a difuser and drop checker from them. (Thanks to Orlando for the fast customer support this week answering questions)

I found that there is an Airgas retail store right near me so I shouldnt have any trouble getting CO2 via tank exchanges. 

Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

More progress

11/28/2009










Full Tank Shot (prelimenary filter in and out tubing)











Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Ooooh, time to check that "Whats that bug?" thread again. Looks like ive got a nice little breading population of Springtails. The thread says they are fish food so that sounds fine with me.


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## Green024 (Sep 19, 2009)

Thats crazy how fast the HC grew emersed. Looks great!


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Yeah, im really happy with the growth, though a lot of it is a single layer of coverage. 

I can see up againts the front glass that the HC is rooted down a cm or more which is great, because last time I did this it just floated away. 

My patience is starting to run a little low so I think I will probably flood the tank soon. 

Chaos


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## seds (Jan 30, 2009)

> So, We can see some growth here very quick which is impressive to me. Also, HC apparently gets more 'focused' over time.
> 
> This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 765x222.


I LOL'd

HC is looking mighty fine.


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

Awesome start Chaos. Looking forward to following.

AB


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## foxfish (Nov 30, 2007)

Great pics, please keep them coming.


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## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

loks like the hc is taking hold nicely i cant wait to see it fill in submerged. keep it up


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

*Green024, seds, NJAquaBarren, foxfish, vtkid* - 

Thanks for all the feedback and encouragment. Dont think I can get a photo easily, but after trimming the dwarf grass and spreading the leaves I finally have a few runners going out. 

I think I will flood in two weeks, as things are very busy for me now and I feel I should have all the ferts and CO2 in place before i do so.I do keep wondering about this process though, mostly about how sudden it should be.

Currently ive got my plants 'dry,' getting misted with ferts and water and recieving a 16 hour photoperiod. I feel like I should take a week to back off on the lighting and maybe, because I have the time, flood slowly (taking a few days to cover the HC).

Once its flooded i assume I should start CO2 and dosing right away (following the sticky on the ferts board), along with planting the stems. A couple days of water changes and then in go the fish, say 6 of them. In theory I have cycled the sediment, so things should go smootly with the chemistry/fish. 

Does that sound right? I do want to make sure I dont start things off by doing something which will let algae get a hold or melt all my HC, if it is subject to melting. 

Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

More growth and cool stuff in the mail. 

November 5, 2009 - 









December 3, 2009 -









Fun stuff from GLA, thanks Orlando






































Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

Good news, I figured out where I can get CO2 so with any luck I will have that Monday, plants Tuesday ( I ordered kind of a random group of stuff which I will just kind of have to figure out a layout ), Drs foster and smith order wed or thurs and a few other things I need thursday from home depot. Im excited to flood soon, finally. I can see three kinds of algae growing different areas where there has been a little standing water or moisture, so I am a little worried there but im hopefull it wont be a problem. 

12/12/2009 - More progress in my dramatic HC growing story. Ive gotten to the point where I really dont immagine I need more progress before flooding. Also, it feels like if I dont get other plants in there soon i will only have HC. 










Also, I am finally getting some runners out of my hairgrass, I think the delay was mostly because I left the blades stuck together for so long. 









Finally, a FTS ahead of the flood, just for reference. It will be great once its flooded to be able to see clearly into the tank as I will be able to get all the dirt and condensate off the acrylic.


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

So a quick post, just because I am excited. Ive got a CO2 tank on hand and with plants arriving today I will be flooding the tank tonight. 

I will take final HC growth pics and then will have to figure out some decent composition for the tank which may be difficult. 

Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

So, things went pretty well last night with planting and setting everything up. Ive got an 8 hour photoperiod with the CO2 turning on with the light. I think I have an OK composition but its a little hard to tell as it will fill in significantly and the tiger lotus is just a bulb now. 

That said I am pretty happy with how things have turned out so far. I planted the tank while it was still dry and managed to fill it without making it cloudy ( Im kind of impressed with myself here because its flourite sand which normally makes the tank grey for a few days). 

I am amazed though with the plants, they look great, but they are also so much larger than I though. The crypts are big, like 6 inch leaves and the sword is deceptivly small, because it is jut a baby and will go all the way to the top of the tank. Also, the taller grass is much taller than i though and to top it all, the four leaf clover I got, which I expected to be 2" was more like 7". I trimed it down because I know it will melt the leaves it has in favor of new under water ones. This is kind of amazing because almost everything I bought was foreground or mid ground... makes me want a bigger tank, but not too badly. I think it will look good, I will just have to keep things in line. 

Interestingly, the HC (probably because it was out of water in the bright light and had been photosynthesizing strongly) was pearling right after I filled the tank, but I dont expect that result when I get home today. 

Also, the light, which seemed so bright before, without the water now seems dim. Oh well, thats 1.8wpg for you. Maybe i will get another light, but I will wait a while before deciding. 

The worst part were the springtails which had colonized my dry HC, they tried, hundreds of them, to get to saftey as the tank flooded, but it didnt work... Oh well. I hope the tank will start to cycle well, it will be at least a week before any fish are added. 

Pictures later today


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

I just read this to find there is no water? I like that tank, I have one that must be made by a sister company Sea Clear. I really like it, but you have to baby the acrylic. 

Looking forward to seeing water. That is a really nice desk, have you thought of buying a cheap stand?


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## kcirtappatrick (Mar 16, 2009)

i would bump the co2 up for a day or two just to help your plants transition from the emersed form into the submerged form. i'm really jealous of your HC! it really took off after a week. keep us posed!


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## seds (Jan 30, 2009)

COOL that is a lot of HC!


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

Now its time for the 'I just planted my tank and Im really excited about it' monster post!




Reginald2 said:


> I just read this to find there is no water? I like that tank, I have one that must be made by a sister company Sea Clear. I really like it, but you have to baby the acrylic.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing water. That is a really nice desk, have you thought of buying a cheap stand?


Its a great looking desk in the pictures and is nice woodwork but in real life it needs a ton of refinishing. Also, i got it for free so its a good cheap stand in my book. 



kcirtappatrick said:


> i would bump the co2 up for a day or two just to help your plants transition from the emersed form into the submerged form. i'm really jealous of your HC! it really took off after a week. keep us posed!


Thank for the idea. I pumped up the CO2 a bit and my drop checker is green. The plants are reacting well and I am seeing pearling from a couple different plants which is really exciting. 

I'm now going to recommend the emmersed growth to anyone who will ask, because its worked so great. 



seds said:


> COOL that is a lot of HC!


Thanks, im quite happy with the growth. Here is the last pic and my first pic as well. 

Just after planting, November 5, 2009 - 










Just before flooding, 12-18-2009 only 5 weeks later. The HC is well rooted, generally well colored, but only one layer thick in many places so it has much progress to make. 









This is how I ended up planting things out









With water!


















The plants:



























I read that I am supposed to cut to tops off the clover which I did, but the few that were left are pearling.









HC, with pearls. Also, 









A little sword. according to the aquariumplants.com site, this is the 'compact' version, but I am not sure if this is a real variety or if its just a baby. As it is I am hoping it will grow to the top of the aquarium. Also I think this is the best plant I have for allowing the filter to draw water around it. 










So, things are looking good in general so far. I have some questions and would love some advice. 

*I have noticed a few snails and some eggs, they are very small snails, no idea on species and am wondering if I should make an effort towards eliminating them now or not. 

Any thoughts on the composition? This was the best I could come up with given the kind of random selection I purchased. 

The crypts which are in an amongst the HC and the lotus which has no leaves yet will both shade the HC, is that going to be a problem?

How intense should I be about removing anything that may melt, or little bits of algae?

Ive got a ton of bubbles coming from the difuser which is great in general, but they kind of fog up the water. For the time being I will leave it, but later on if I put it under the filter intake will that leave me with clearer water?

Im doing EI dosing and would appreciate it if some one with experience could look at my thread from the ferts forum. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...s/98193-dosing-regimen-math-sanity-check.html


*

Thanks for all the info and advice so far. This forum has been the key to me getting this far and this well informed. 

Chaos



Also,

Noche the cat wants to know if he can eat the plants.


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## FDNY911 (Dec 6, 2009)

Great Job man! I am looking forward to starting my HC Tank aswell. I cant wait to see this with some Fish! Good Luck.


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## foxfish (Nov 30, 2007)

A great start, I dont mind snails, in fact I like to see snails as long as they are the small varieties.
In my mind, part of the fun revolves around developing the composition as the plants & tank evolves.
Having patience is a crucial part of our hobby & adjusting your own tank to satisfy yourself is what really matters - it normally comes together after a few months.
I would remove any algae if possible but dont disturb the plants if you can help it.
Personally I still use the "stem plant attack" (solution) on algae.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Im loving this journal! Subscribed! ^_^


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

*Chaos' 20 Gallon Long (now with water/fish)*

FDNY911, foxfish, Kittysnax, 

Thanks for the kind words. Im glad you guys like the tank so far. 


There has been some pretty exciting progress in the tank this week. I bought some rummy nose tetras. I got six who looked health at the store and I was amazed to see how pale the were when I got them home (the red was gone from their noses and the stripes on their tails were also gone), but they quickly started to color up again. One was injured and only lived about a day, but the other five seem to be doing well. They stick together pretty close, but are showing more and more that they are comfortable in their environment by spreading out a little more and swimming more freely in the open water. I am still getting a bunch of schooling behavior though which is a lot of fun to watch. 

Noche the local cat saw the fish and was very surprised by them, but early indications suggest he will not be too troublesome which is good. 

My tank is clearly playing host to a bunch of snails which came with the plants, im sure someone can tell me what they are called (they are in the pics below). I got a bunch of mylasian trumpets from my LFS for free which is good because I noticed there were bubbles in the substrate so I think it will be very beneficial for it to get mixed up. It was very fun to drop them onto the sand around the dwarf hairgrass and see them all burrow within a few minutes. 

Below are some tank shots and a bunch of little comments and notes. 



















Here are the rummys - they wont stop swimming 


















I apparently didn't trim the clover low enough, thus all the brown stems, but what is growing looks to be in good shape. 









The cryps are looking good, in general, but I have noticed some apparent problems. 









here is the snail, also, this leaf is much lighter than the others on this plant. 









One of the Cryp Wenditi leaves, looking deficent. 









The cryp is getting holes on the large leaf here and the smaller one which is just trying to grow. 









Nice bubbles on this leaf. 










The Lotus is starting to grow, probably time to burry it I think. It looks like there is some fungus on it, but at the moment I am not to worried. 










The dwarf hairgrass is clearly establishing a network of runners in the substrate and the blades are beginning to get more dense. There at least a few MTS in the sand here, but you cant tell. 











The frilly rotilla is showing some die off, and is growing roots which are kind of 'dripping' down from the plant where the stem is not vertical. 









The other rotilla is showing the most growth, pretty much all the light green is new. Im not getting much color on the new leaves yet. These stems are also growing roots above the substrate. 









HC is getting some algae growing on it, beard algae I think. Also, where it is overshadowed by the cryps and in a few other places there are a bunch of leaves which are pale and or transparent and might be melting. 









Vals are melting a bit, not sure if its problematic or just minor. 










A little minor damage and discoloration on the sword. Also, the sword is growing a flower stem which is nearly at the surface of the tank. 










My current plan:

Im going to try to get the CO2 to absorb better by having the difuser put bubbles into the filter intake. 

Im getting a powerhead to help circulation, which seems decent now, but when the plants fill in I think I will need more. 

Also, Im working on getting some shrimp to help keep things clean. 

Any input would be great. 

Chaos


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

More co2, more flow, double dose and increase your water changes for a couple of weeks. Also, trim out all the bad leaves/plant mass. 

Plants are pretty humble with their requests regarding light, it's just co2 and flow where they're greedy.


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

garuf said:


> More co2, more flow, double dose and increase your water changes for a couple of weeks. Also, trim out all the bad leaves/plant mass.
> 
> Plants are pretty humble with their requests regarding light, it's just co2 and flow where they're greedy.


Thanks for the advice. I fixed the CO2 a bit, by getting the bubbles to go into the filter, which does seem to be working pretty well. It does seem to only capture the smallest bubbles, which is a bit inefficent. 

I did loose another fish, but the remaining four seem to be quite health and active. They are currently playing around in the current from the filter and generally swimming in the open water even more than before.


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## ashman8080 (Dec 27, 2009)

This tank has been a true inspiration to me! I'm going to be doing something very similar to this but not exactly because what fun is that? I do have Two questions.

Being the nooby i am what is HC? Does it like to carpet?
And also where did you find the black fluorite sand?


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

ashman8080 said:


> This tank has been a true inspiration to me! I'm going to be doing something very similar to this but not exactly because what fun is that? I do have Two questions.
> 
> Being the nooby i am what is HC? Does it like to carpet?
> And also where did you find the black fluorite sand?


 
Glad you like the tank. This is my second planted tank and the first one where I am trying to do things 'by the book' so its nice to see things going fairly well so far. I guessed a lot with the first tank and it went badly, but this is a great place to get info. 

HC is Hemianthus_callitrichoides. Its a great carpeting plant, ive had very good sucess growing it out of water. Since I have flooded the tank things are not going as well, but I hope to get that sorted out. 

Here is a great HC carpet (this does take a while to get to) - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/84613-starfire-50-a.html

Also, this is where I got mine. Im sure thare are other places in the states that have it. I do keep seeing stories of people getting sold something as HC at their LFS and having it not actually be it so look at some pics before buying. Just keep in mind the leaves are like 2-3mm tops across. If they are much different you are looking at the wrong plant. 
http://www.aquariumplants.com/Dwarf_Baby_Tears_Hemianthus_callitrichoides_p/po212.htm

The flourite sand wasnt hard to find, I think Big Al's and aquariumplants both have it and others will to. The important thing is flourite is very dusty and needs to be washed significantly to keep it from mucking up your water. flourite sand is even worse. It took a ton of washing and very careful flooding to keep from making my water very dirty. That said, I do like it. 

Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Ahh, so I just realized that one of my habits from my old community tank might be causing me some problems. Ive been wondering in particular why my Vals are falling appart so bad and while i am not yet discounting snails (dont know what damage they produce would look like) ive got one positive change I can make. 

I was adding salt to the tank, which i did in my fish only tanks. Time for a series of water changes to get the salt out this week. Hopefully there will be a noticeable improvement from this. 

Also, running the CO2 into the filter seems to be going ok, but I am hearing a 'dripping' noise so maybe its not a great idea.


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

So it looks like my chemistry is a good bit better than before. In particular Nitrites were bad but bag on the path to zero. 

I ordered a power head but appraently sent for the wrong one (required an expensive controler). 

*The Good*: Stems, cryps, sword are all growing well. Lots of snails too, but they seem to be helping. Also, I was not able to read my drop checker but some white nail polish and I am all set. This seems like a much better start than my last tank so I am pretty pleased. 

*The Ok:* HC and fish. HC seems to be growing, without much algae encroachment but its struggling where the cryps shade it. The fish which are still around look good, but thats only half of those I started with. I will drip a climate the new residents when the arrive. Also, hairgrass looks ok, but not much change recently and the clover look ok as well (finally the dieoff seems about done. 

*The Bad*: The Lotus bulb died. it had started to grow but the bit that sprouted fell off (its still in the tank if I am wrong and the bulb might have a chance). Also, the Vals seem to be melting (no Excel, I was dosing Salt and have cut that down significantly with a few water changes) and I dont see any runners which is a little concerning. 

Comments or suggestions appreciated as always. 

Full tank shot. So much stem growth :bounce::bounce:










The HC has thined out arround the Cryps. What is left seems to be growing, but maybe something taller (HM?) could grow around the cryps without choking them? The cryps are getting more and more leaves and I immagine the problem will increase









Vals are struggling, most of the dead leaves have been pruned, but it seems a bunch are a little injured and getting worse (might this be pond snails?)









My stems, I really will get the species names on here at some point. But I think these are looking good, just much less red than the old leaves were. Do I need much more Iron?










Nail Polish is the key to seeing the color of my drop checker against the black background (I was very careful to dry it until I couldnt smell the polish at all because I am sure it would be very bad otherwise)


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, so things are going well right now. 

Mostly the problems I am having are little and I am happy to say that the help wanted sign can be tanken down from my tank. I was able to get some tiger and amano shrimp at my LFS so the bits of algae I am seeing should get taken care of. 

Todays update is a youtube vid (I feel like we should be able to imbed these but I cant figure it out) of feeding the rummys which are looking happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAzAuXvwn8I

Enjoy.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

looking good


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

Its been a little bit and things are going well. I gave the rotalla a haircut and got rid of all the unhealthy stem sections. Also, trimmed off the smallest leaves that the sword has and cleaned out some algae. Also I have a power head now which seems to help. 

*The Good* Most things, ive got the water quality under control so Im not having any more fish dieoffs. Well... one is just gone, but im not sure what happened. The vals are growign now and put out a runner which seems positive. The stems were growing well, so i trimmed and replanted. Also I have shrimpwhich is cool, but all the small ones are gone. 

*The OK* I now have an offical tank algae, I think. The shrimp are eating some of it apparently, based on their green stomaches but not enough to keep it at bay. Still it seems to be not too bad. Also I am having trouble getting my CO2 right. it seems to take a very long time to get to 'green' and if I bump it up at all it starts to turn yellow by the end of the day. thoughts?

*The Bad* nothing really. I am not satisfied with the hairgrass or clover growth, but am not to worried yet. 

On to the Pics:

First up are the FTS and FTS at an angle shots. 



















Tiger Shrimp









Amano









Cryps are growing well









My algae is mostly thread algae. Also, yay HC









Chaos


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

wow that looks so nice minus the algae issue but hey what can u do!

i wanted to know if i could make a recommendation?

i think u may need a rock or two on the left side to equal out the weight on the left. i could see a larger one and a same size as others on that side...just me though i love how green this is though! great job


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

problemman said:


> wow that looks so nice minus the algae issue but hey what can u do!
> 
> i wanted to know if i could make a recommendation?
> 
> i think u may need a rock or two on the left side to equal out the weight on the left. i could see a larger one and a same size as others on that side...just me though i love how green this is though! great job


Thanks for the response, crits are allways welcome. 

Im pretty happy with the un-balance of the tank right now, especially given how cold it is out, so I dont really want to go rock hunting. 

I realize the scape is a little nontraditional as I am trying to have some iwagumi and dutch both in the same tank cause I cant have two tanks right now. I hope to get a lotus on the right size as a focal feature, or something. Its hard to decide now, the right feels cramped and the left sparse so I dont know where I even could put more hard scape. Plus I hope the hairgrass grows in really well and that and the vals will de-emphaisze the rocks by filling in behind them and making them less prominent. 

Thats the hope anyway. 

Chaos


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## ryan_p (Mar 18, 2009)

I like the HC carpet, your tank overall is having great progress.(subscribed)

I got no idea HC has to be grown emersed to look like that, i am new to this plant. I also have plans of making a carpet just like yours but i got an HC from LFS and its in a pot and submerged. Will that affect the growth if I try to plant it emersed?


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Ryan_p, 

Glad you like the tank. 

I am quite sure it does not have to be grown emmerssed to look like this. 

I have noticed recently that it has grown vertically much more since the flood than before. Growing it emmersed was a good option for me because 1.) I was very busy at the time and was therefore able to be patient with the HC 2.) I had not yet figured out all the ferts, equipment and needed the time to figure that out. and 3.) I read some of Tom Barr's (PlantBrain) posts about how hard it is to mess up emmersed HC and felt like that would be a good approach b/c in my previous tank I had all kinds of problems with it (I was making a ton of mistakes in general though which contributed to my lack of success, thus point 2). 

I think the HC should transition without much problem if you want to go to a 'dry' start. 

Also, just to be safe, I would post a pic of what you purchased from your lfs with a quarter for scale just to double check you actually got HC. I have seen a number of threads recently with people who were sold HM as HC from their lfs. 

Chaos


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## ryan_p (Mar 18, 2009)

thanks for the tip chaos, still deciding what to do and looking around what is approach to this i really want a carpet like you did and it looks great. I tried the glossostigma before but sadly it just went up instead and I'd like to try this plant. 
Here is what i got from LFS looks like (currently sitting on my old tank).








I didnt get to capture it with a quarter but i got some of my tiny shrimps in there and there is my HM right at the back given to me by a friend (at left side).


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Ryan, 

Yeah, thats HC. Just worth confirming. 

Also, i realized I forgot to add the biggest benefit of a dry start. No Algae (well a little but nothing big). My tank has been up for a bit and I have a bunch of stems to help with this but my HC is still getting a bit of algae growth, but in this case its healthy with good roots (current wont carry it away, like it might the little sprigs) HC with some algae as opposed to 2 pots spread thinly over the substrate. 

Let me know if I can be of more help. 

Chaos


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## ryan_p (Mar 18, 2009)

Chaos,

Again thanks for these tips, I guess the next step is to try and see it for myself. I planned planting it submerged with some stem plants in the back to suck up the excess nutrients to lessen algae growth (its a newly set up tank) until I saw your approach. BTW which grows faster emersed or submerged? I'm excited to start my new one but I want to do this right with very little trouble and avoid major disaster.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

growing HC emmersed would be easier and faster. think of it this way like chaos said. if its out of water no current to uproot and constant planting and replanting, no algae issue and it seems to grow great if u dont pay much attention to it lol


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

awesome tank man!!


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

ryan_p said:


> Chaos,
> 
> Again thanks for these tips, I guess the next step is to try and see it for myself. I planned planting it submerged with some stem plants in the back to suck up the excess nutrients to lessen algae growth (its a newly set up tank) until I saw your approach. BTW which grows faster emersed or submerged? I'm excited to start my new one but I want to do this right with very little trouble and avoid major disaster.


If you want easy I think the dry start is best. If you look at the beginning of the journal I had 6 weeks dry and 4 weeks flooded so far. In the first 6 weeks I went from two pots, spread out pretty well to a nearly full single layer across the whole tank. The following 4 weeks has seen the HC grow substantially vertically. With water it seems to be spreading slowly horizontally and the one bare patch at the front of my tank I think would have filled if I left it dry for a while longer. 

adrianng1996 - glad you like it :icon_mrgr


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## ryan_p (Mar 18, 2009)

finally decided im going to do the dry start route like you did. I read a couple of stuff about it already and i think i am ready, and this will give me some more time to think of better scape ideas although i have something in mind already. I will be starting tomorrow. Again thank you chaos for your help and also to problemman for giving some tips. I will check your HC carpet from time to time to see how they are doing in your tank


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## DreamProductions (Jan 14, 2010)

Very nice tank, I've decided to try putting HC along the bottom of my tank as well, however its already filled... 
Does HC need co2 to grow and be lively? or can I use flourish excel?


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

DreamProductions said:


> Very nice tank, I've decided to try putting HC along the bottom of my tank as well, however its already filled...
> Does HC need co2 to grow and be lively? or can I use flourish excel?


Glad you like it. I dont really know about excel, but I am sure there is info out there. The pressurized CO2 I am using now is going well with EI dosing, in my previous tank I had HC with no CO2 or ferts and I know that didnt work... Im sure there are options in between which can work. 

Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Inverts Update!

So, I had purchased 5 amanos and 5 tiger shrimps. I finally figured out today it is probably the koralia powerhead and/or my eheim filter which caused 1 amano and 3 tigers (the smallest specimens) to disappear. 

The powerhead is off untill I can DIY something and I got an ugly piece of white filter foam as a prefilter for the eheim. I went to the store and asked for 10 more tigers (I really want a breeding population). I got, apparently, 9 tigers and one which looks like an immature CRS or a cross breed of some kind. I will post a pic whenever I can get one. 

*Anyone have thoughts about whether these shrimps will eat the algae I have above* (I think its string algae, see the pic above)? I read they need to be fed actual food so I got algae wafers but it seems like when I give them any it is a huge ammount for the number of shrimp, this is like 1/8th of a wafer. Im just not sure what they are eating. I assume when they look green on the inside they are eating algae of some kind but it appears they are browsing the rocks most, where I really wouldnt be bothered by the algae so much. 

Chaos


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## ryan_p (Mar 18, 2009)

chaosmaximus said:


> Inverts Update!
> 
> So, I had purchased 5 amanos and 5 tiger shrimps. I finally figured out today it is probably the koralia powerhead and/or my eheim filter which caused 1 amano and 3 tigers (the smallest specimens) to disappear.
> 
> ...


Chaos,

I really dont know if they eat those algae, but i guess they do, but not in huge amount. Are you considering getting SAE in this tank to fight eat some of those algae?


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

*Berried shrimp and new fish in Chaos's 20 Long*

Good News Everyone!

I finally got my lemon tetras. They are not full grown yet and seem to be doing quite well. 

Also, one of my tiger shirmp is berried. Im super excited about that because I was starting to wonder if I was doing something wrong. 

Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Ive got a nice distribution of fish in the tank so far, Rummies on the bottom and lemons in the middle. So I am thinking about marbled hatchets for the top. I know they jump and I saw a recommendation that you have 5 inches or so between the top of the water and the lid. This is not possible with my tank, would that be a problem at all?

Thanks, Chaos


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey all, 

Making progress. Ive got new fish, Lemon tetras, who are still not very colorful. 










Obligatory FTS









Lots more hairgrass. 



























Chaos


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Updates?


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## chaosmaximus (Sep 29, 2009)

Caton said:


> Updates?


Yes indeed. The biggest update would be that real life intervened for a while and the tank spent too long without the attention it is due. What that means is that my HC is gone which was sad, but the tank looks pretty good right now, so its not a total loss. 

I will try to get some pics up soon and some detail on the last few months. Also... big plans are in the works, so I am pretty excited. 

Chaos


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