# Celestial Pearl Danio Help



## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

Hi all,

I have a 2 gallon heavily planted tank with cherry shrimp and 3 CPD's (2 male and one female I think). The shrimp and the CPD's are both breeding, but I think two of the CPD's generally stay together and the other one is on its own. 

I noticed today that one of them is sitting at the bottom of the tank/resting on decorations. I tried to coerce it to move and it swims away with short spurts rather than fully swimming. The other CPD's (the female especially) come out from hiding and swim around every once in a while perfectly normally. 

I tested the water with pH around 7.4-7.6, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Phosphates at 0. GH is 8, KH is 7. Temp is around 23 C. Did a water change to see if that would help and there's no change. 

I also noticed a red spot on its right side that doesn't look healthy. Pics of the fish and tank attached. 

What do you think it is/what should I do?


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

Looks like it's injured. I'd hate to isolate a danio, but it might be the best way for it to heal. Of course, keep the water quality pristine while it does.


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## monk1boy (Sep 20, 2014)

Most likely injured. Do you have a hospital tank available? If not, you could probably pick up a 10g at Petco for $10 and use it as a hospital tank.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. I can put something together as a hospital tank. Any idea what would've caused it?


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## essabee (Oct 7, 2006)

It looks like injury. Don't fuss it, give it time to recover. Separating it will add trauma. Keep off all tank activity for the time being.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

Also, what medication, if any, should I put in the tank with it?


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## essabee (Oct 7, 2006)

You said the other 2 CPDs are breeding - so no medication - if you have a dry almond leaf, you may add that to the tank.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

Ok thanks. Any idea what could've caused it?


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

You've had them for awhile right?

It looks like a injury from physical damage (caused by getting rammed by the other fish, or it swam into an object really hard either on accident or while attempting to dart away from attacks from another fish -rival male-).

If the other fish are leaving the injured one alone, it would be best to leave the injured fish alone for best chance of recovery.
But if the hurt fish is getting further harassed by the other fish, it would have better recovery chances being put in a hospital tank. 
As mentioned by essabee, transferring fish to a new environment (hospital tank) causes a great deal of stress and that sudden stress shock alone, severely hinders it's state of health even more, and could even potentially kill the fish, but as I mentioned, if the other fish are bullying the sick fish, that stress is usually greater (depends on amount of "torture") than transferring, so in that case transferring would be better (better actually if you could leave the sick fish in the same tank and remove the aggressors -most likely the rival male, if the female isn't a threat I actually think conspecifics relieve stress bettering recovering chances, rather than the sick fish being alone).
If trying to catch any fish, cause as minimal chaos (chasing, fish darting, water tumbling everywhere, amount of time "threatening" fish net is in eyesight) as possible.

It could be more severe internal bleeding (not much you can do really) than just a "bruise", so there is a chance the fish could die.

I wouldn't use any medications since it is a physical injury, not a disease. But if you did want to try to help the fish, as mentioned you could add Indian Almond Leaves, Alder Cones, or Cholla wood to the tank (don't add too many at once, as they do reduce pH a bit). These have natural medicinal properties and can help the fish relieve stress, recover faster and prevent the already weakened fish from contracting any illness. 

Melafix (Tea Tree Oil) is usually regarded as a gentle med and can aid in healing and preventing some sickness as well.

Other things to aid in the fishes best possible recovery is to make sure it can still eat, so if it has a hard time getting around, try aiming the food toward the hurt fish.
I doubt this is a problem for this particular tank, but if the current is too strong for the weakened fish, it can overwork it and stress it out to the point it succumbs. But it sounds like the fish has found a resting spot, which is good so it can rest and use the majority of it's energy healing.
Lighting can stress out vulnerable fish as well, especially if the hurt CPD is in a area that isn't exactly it's preferred "territory", adding a cave/hiding spot near where that fish usually rests, could offer some relief to the fish. Reducing or eliminating lighting will help too (ambient/room lighting as well).


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

Hello Grant...

Danios are active swimmers and need a minimum of a 20 gallon tank. Being shoaling fish, they need to be in groups of no less than 6. Your tank set up isn't a good environment for Danios.

B


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

Thanks for the super helpful reply WaterLife. I'll keep an eye on him and see if he's being harassed. 

BBradbury, I agree. The danios are in there temporarily. I'm in the process of setting up a 32 gallon that they'll be going into, and I wanted to see how they act etc before stocking a main tank with them.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

The tank is definitely too small for CPDs. That said, it is a beautiful tank for your shrimp. Both shrimp and CPDs will be better off once you set up the larger tank. 
I second the almond leaves and alder cones, easy on the fish and can't hurt. Mardel Maracyn or erythromycin from API would be my choice of medication but it is easy to overdose in a tank that small as most packages are measured for a 10 gal tank and you would have to split a package into 5 portions.
Are you sure they are breeding? They are group spawners but I guess 3 is a group, lol.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

I have at least 6 fry in the tank. This isn't the first time either. This is the best picture I could get of the biggest one.


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## TheAnswerIs42 (Jul 10, 2014)

essabee said:


> It looks like injury. Don't fuss it, give it time to recover. Separating it will add trauma. Keep off all tank activity for the time being.


Agreed. These are sensitive fish and hate being moved around. If it is injured, best to just leave for a couple days and watch closely to make sure the spot doesn't get worse/bigger/infected, etc. CPDs find comfort in being around each other, and moving it will just cause it undue stress, potentially making it worse.

I have kept CPDs for a couple years now and they are curious, mischievous little fishes, that get stuck in drift wood, jump out of the tank, and try to squeeze into narrow gaps while they "hunt". they get scrapes occasionally and, unfortunately sometimes they get themselves into trouble and die. I had a male alpha male once wedge himself in a crack of the driftwood, head first, and he died that way.


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## LionelC (Feb 27, 2014)

I think that is the other two paired up he may be getting bullied by the others. CPS may be cute and all but they are still micro predators and in small groups this is going to happen. I had 10 CPD in my 55 and noticed that some would get picked on. I now have about 30 and they seem to be much happier....




LionelC


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

So yesterday I was having a hard time finding him in the tank, until I saw him hidden in the rotala bonsai on the right side of my tank, face first in the hair grass. At that point I figured he had very little chance in my tank so I got him out and put him in a separate bare bottom tank with an air stone and with the piece of cholla wood with Anubias and weeping moss on it that was in my tank. 

He's not swimming properly yet, but I didn't expect a 24 hour turn around either. How long would this take to heal roughly?

Also, now that the cholla wood isn't in my tank, the reminding male seems to be chasing/harassing the female quite a bit. Is this normal? This is my first tank so by no means am I an experienced fish keeper. 

Thanks again for all of the replies.


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## Rion (Dec 29, 2006)

Almost looks like a swim bladder problem which will sort itself out or it won't =( , make sure the flow in the hospital tank isn't too strong, feed good food, and wait. Best thing you can do is try and eliminate as much stress as you can and don't futz with the tank. Keep lighting dim on the hospital tank and give plenty of cover. The fish should start turning around in a week or so. Also the sick one looks to be female, hard to tell from the picture.

The male chasing the female everywhere is because he's trying to mate with her but she's having none of it or not in the mood, this is normal. I would highly advise not having less than 6 CPDs in a tank though as males constant chasing can stress the females out.

As a side note if you want to try raising CPD fry go get a clean turkey baster (a nice tool in fish keeping) and visit the sites you see the male and female shimmying together and suck up around that area. Place the water in a clear container an look closely an you might be able to find some 1mm clear eggs. Those are the CPD eggs, place a air stone (set really low) and a drop of meythl blue (optional, to prevent fungus of eggs) in that container and in 24-48 hours those eggs should hatch. They are now wigglers, keep the temperature stable and perform small frequent water changes and eventually ( a week I think) they will become free swimming, and you can now begin feeding small food such as microworms. once they get 5 mm in length you could put them back with the parents given that the filters on the tank have sponge pre-filters to prevent them from getting sucked up. They take a long time to grow to adult size but it's a lot of fun.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

Thanks for the reply. I've just left them in the tank with the adults to see if they grow on their own. I didn't want to go through the trouble of raising them separately. If they make it then great lol. I've just been using normal flakes and crushing them really finely so that the fry can eat them. They've been in there for 2-3 weeks now.


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## ebrammer252 (Jun 4, 2015)

BBradbury said:


> Hello Grant...
> 
> Danios are active swimmers and need a minimum of a 20 gallon tank. Being shoaling fish, they need to be in groups of no less than 6. Your tank set up isn't a good environment for Danios.
> 
> B


Do you have some information to back this up? I'm in the process of helping my little sister set up a 10 gallon and according to aqadvisor 15 CPD in a 10 gallon is well under maximum stock. I even went as far as to check with msjinkzd to ensure this was correct and she agreed that they have a small footprint and 15 of them in a 10 gallon is perfectly acceptable.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

My understanding is that aqadvisor is good for telling you how much bio-load your tank can handle given its size and its level of filtration, but I'm not sure that it will check/tell you if your tank is an appropriate size for a given species. Smaller fish like CPD's and small rasboras are kind of a grey area in terms of what is considered acceptable for tank sizes; some people will say a 5 gallon is fine, others will say 20 gallons minimum. General consensus is the larger the better. They're breeding in my 2 gallon, which I would consider means they're happy/comfortable but I personally don't feel like it's a suitable home for them.

I personally think that CPD's are ok in a 10 gallon, but I don't think 15 is an appropriate number. I'd say 6-8 with some cherry shrimp and maybe a small school of something else and that's it. That being said, I'm not even remotely close to being an authority on the subject lol.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

So the fish hasn't really improved much over the past week, and now it looks like there might be a sore/white spot/something white sticking out of the fish where the red spot is. Any idea what that might be? I'm debating just pulling the plug.

I have plants in with him that I'd like to put back in my tank, but if this is some sort of bacterial infection/fungus what should I do with those?


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

This is the best picture of the sore that I could get.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

Anyone?


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Hard to tell from the blurry pic.
Have a look at this site
White Bumps on Aquarium Fish | Animals - mom.me

I personally never pull the plug on anything living. There has always been stories out there of lives that looked like they would not make it and/or were even in a lot of pain, but still managed to pull through and survive and live good lives thereafter. We chose to take these lives in so we should not give up and try to help them.

Have you done anything treatment wise?

At this point, considering the CPD is still alive, and from the blurry pics it does seem the red has diminished some, so he is fighting and trying to recover, but his body is weakened right now and it seems a bacterial infection has set in (or is it a anchor worm that's been there all along? How long have you had him?) so he does need some medicine to help him fight the infection if that is the case. I am not too knowledgeable on diseases/medications so it would be wise to do some research on what meds are effective on bacterial infections while also being not so harsh on the fish since he is already weak. But in general, Melafix is very well tolerated and useful to help weak fish recover from mild infections. Doesn't hurt to get more natural medicinal properties by adding more cholla wood, Indian Almond Leaves, alder cones, etc and leaving the tannins in the water. All in all, it appears to be a easy case now and the CPD looks to have good chances of recovering back to 100% if you treat/help him properly and right away so the infection doesn't overwhelm the fish.

As for the plants, it is tough to say depending on if what the hurt CPD has is contagious (anchor worm as mentioned in link) or not (bacterial infection set in on weakened fish).

Hope he makes it.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Infection of the injured area. Get some Maracyn or Maracyn TC or E.M. tablets as I suggested earlier.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

There's nothing sticking out anymore. It's straight up just a hole at this point. *Kind of* looks like this:

http://zebrafish.org/zirc/health/Disease_images/EAI_ulcer.jpg

Is there a difference between tetracycline and erythromycin?

I also just noticed that some seed shrimp managed to make their way into the hospital tank along with the plants/cholla wood that I put in there from my main tank. Could they be making the problem worse? i.e. eating away at the open sore?


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## dbest671 (Oct 18, 2015)

My CDP had something similar, a hole in its side, and it was from fighting. He now has a slight scar. I didn't medicate, but I do weekly water changes.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

I doubt the seed shrimp will make a difference. Both, tetracycline and erythromycin are used in humans to treat acne. So they are similar. If you have tetracycline on hand, give it a try. I recommended the other two because I know from personal experience that they work with infected injuries. Over the years I had to isolate and treat a few plecos that received injuries during fights.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. 

Interesting. One of them was typically cast away from the other male and the female. I can only assume that the injured one is him.


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## dbest671 (Oct 18, 2015)

Kind of hard to tell from the picture, it's kind of blurry... males and females are usually easy to identify. The males bottom fins will have a brighter orange color, much brighter... orange and black. And the females will have a pale orange/clear bottom fin.


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## GrantF (Jan 5, 2015)

So the fish is still not better. Medicated with erythromycin for a week as per the instructions, water changes since and still not swimming properly. Seems like it's spine is maybe crooked? I can't fully tell though because he spends most of his time basically lying on the bottom of the tank. What should I do?


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