# Dimming multiple fixtures??



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I would like to know if I could dim 4 separate fixtures from the same controller. 2 Beamswork fixtures and 2 supplemental fixtures. The tanks are above each other so I was hoping I could just mount the controller on the rack. Beamswork fixtures are a 48" DA and a 48" FSPEC. I'm thinking of adding an Emerson supplement bag from RapidLED. I would like the easiest option that will do those 2 things regardless of whether it is the most expensive. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yes but the key is you need (well there are work arounds like parallel-ing ps's but NOT recommended) a new bigger power supply and another for the Emerson board.
http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/mo.jpg

you are going to have to do the TC-420 hack to work w/ the Emersen effect board..and work around the 30+ V power needed for it..
Connecting high power LEDs to the TC420

There many be fancier ways to do it but this is about the easiest I'm aware of..
Will take a bit of explaining but the primary problem is mixing constant voltage fixtures w/ constant current ones.

At the TC420 diagram you would "decouple" the 12V supply, substituting the new 15V highr amp than orig one.. ?Only tying grounds together..
Diagram of mod linked below. Currently having a hard time w/ images.
http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/TC420emerson.jpg

not "exactly" sure if the common ground for the 2 ps's is necessary..

You can do some "magic" using "normal" 5V PWM controllers and running the pwm to either gates of MOSFETS or Transistors but above my paygrade..

Hmm digital relay boards should work. 

Above is probably the simplest and actually cheapest route,,
Real electronics geeks please verify..

Dang, like I say, blink and things change..
Looks like you can use these w/ any PWM controller..


> 5V-36V PWM Adjust Control MOS FET Trigger Switch Driving Modul 400W 15A With LED
> Output Capacity: DC 5-36V/15A/400W
> 
> Trigger Signal Source: digital high/low level (DC 3.3-20V)


Bluefish mini, Stormx ect.. pick one.


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

jeffkrol said:


> Yes but the key is you need (well there are work arounds like parallel-ing ps's but NOT recommended) a new bigger power supply and another for the Emerson board.
> http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/mo.jpg
> 
> you are going to have to do the TC-420 hack to work w/ the Emersen effect board..and work around the 30+ V power needed for it..
> ...


I would need a power supply capable of powering all 4 lights run into a buck connector and then into the TC420? And then... I'm not wanting to control individual colors just entire light bar dimming. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## SpringHalo (Oct 13, 2017)

I'll warn you that you won't get very much red light out of the Emerson boards. At 660nm, the red light is only 20% the brightness of regular 625nm reds, and 740nm is invisible to your eyes. These boards are essentially PAR boosters without the benefits of being brighter. If you need more PAR you can go this route, but if you want "color boosting" supplement you should look at RGB led strips or "grow" lights.

You don't need a new power supply for the two beamswork to connect to the TC420. You can connect the positive of each supply to its own fixture, and connect the negatives of the power supplies to the negative TC420 terminal, and the negatives of the beamsworks to channels 1 and 2.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea, he's doing 4 though and to be honest "my" preference would be 1 ps vs 4 cheap bricks regardless...
At worst 108W 15V ps
still need to tap one or a buck converter to power the TC-420
And even "big ones" aren't unreasonably priced..and room for expansion..
https://power.sager.com/se-350-15-2...MI2Yr356KI3AIViAFpCh0_Vw7fEAkYAyABEgLUxvD_BwE








If you get one w/ a tweakable 15V rail you can also squeeze more power (or less) out of the Beamsworks...(keep heating in mind)


> 13.5 ~ 18V adj.


still need to tap one or a buck converter to power the TC-420










you can use the orig. ps's w/ the dual MOSFET boards I listed as well.
And as mentioned any 3.3-5V PWM coontroller or fully modified TC-420 (421/wireless)


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Oh... I may have to do 2 TC421's. It's not a bad thing that they put out so little added brightness. (Emerson boards). I dont want them any brighter. In fact I want to dim the Beamswork fixtures. I would need to run 2 Beamswork and an Emerson board on each tank. That would be 6 outputs.
Am i correct that I would need a 15v power supply and a 36v power supply, 1 700mh driver, 1 TC421, to run 2 Beamswork fixtures and one Emerson board. 
That would be for each tank? Wire it up according to the diagram and I could dim each fixture individually? Sorry I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. 
I really appreciate the help! I'm very much looking forward to this!
Or would one of those Meanwell power supplies be enough?
$45 per Meanwell
$32 for TC421
$8 for LED driver
$100 for Emerson board... and another $30 for a power supply

As I'm thinking more about this and wanting as little opportunity to mess things up.. since the Emerson board doesnt really add any visible light I could leave it on it's own with a $30 power supply. I could just run the TC421 to dim the 2 Beamswork fixtures. Is it as simple as a new power supply (Meanwell) and running the positive and negative as mentioned? Power the TC421 and both Beamswork off of 1 power supply with as few "pieces" as possible? 
Could I run the Emerson board on the same power supply? If so, which one?

Just in case it matters... looks like output on 1 is 15v and the other is 21v. So I'm assuming the single Meanwell would be maxed out running TC421 and both lights?


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

[email protected] you got the 1W one, yea that complicates things..

you can still use the Tc-421 but probably tap all the MOSFET bases and use the "relay"boards..










Emerson board requires 2 "channels".. didn't notice that at first either....


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Both of those power supplies pictured are for the 2 Beamswork fixtures. The 21v is for DHL and 15v is for FSPEC. I dont know what these other parts are. Would one of the other controllers be easier to work with? StormX? If this is too crazy I could get a new dimming Fluval to use the the DHL and emerson board on my 150. I could use 2 FPEC's on the 75 gallon tanks and use TC421's on those. That should be adequate reds at least. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea the Beamswork w/ the "1W" LED's uses the bigger than normal power supply..
Inside the TC-420 is a MOSFET and at it's base receives a 5V logic signal from the "aduino-like" insides..

Those little boards I posted basically are the same circuit "outside" the TC-420..

So no you can do ALL w/ one controller. Even gang on one channel if using the 5V "signal"...
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=12577&pictureid=107405

On the left side you attach the controller.
On the right the ind. power supplies and lights..

It is an electronic relay really , a fast relay..

I'd recommend the HurricaneX over the StormX but be aware there is some bug on ch 8-16..
But if you just need 7 or less (they still work 8-16) it's a piece of cake..

Maybe an image will help, you are making things a wee bit more complicated than necessary..
BTW freaking site is stripping out my direct images.. so hit the link.
opps image is back, for awhile?

The little black boxes to the right of the new wires is the internal MOSFETS.










http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/tcmod1.jpg

They are all "easy" to work with, w/ the right external parts..
Maybe think of it this way.. The Beamsworks (constant voltage) get the MAIN current/powr chopped by the dimmer. The LDD's use a secondary circuit to to signal to chop the current/power.


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The first picture that you posted. Is that 2 LDD drivers on a board? I'm thinking I may just have to buy a couple things to see what you are talking about. 
If I want to run both of those lights on one controller what do I need? I just want to dim or brighten each entire fixture.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

This was my idea.. Now its NOT complete. Still thinking about the grounds to the dim channel on the external mosfet boards..
Thinking you can just tie ALL the ps grounds and the ground to the mosfet dim channel together, 








http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/control1.JPG

All the parts can be bought cheap on the bay of the e..
12V step down and MOSFET "relays"..


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

It looks like it may be easier to just buy a couple controllers. I'm not super confident on being able to wire all that up and make it presentable and clean looking for tanks on a rack. I think I'm going to start on the 150 first. Ill just wire a TC421 between power supply and fixture on the FSPEC and in addition to raising both fixtures hopefully that gives the spread I need. 
I appreciate the diagram. I'm going to try that once I get the 150 squared away.


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I finally "SEE" what you've been saying!!


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

@ Jeffkrol would there be a way to run the 1w Beamswork fixture on say channel 1 and a handbuilt fixture on the other channels?
Specifically how to I get past the 4 amp limit for the TC421 and still leave the other channels open to run 3 colors on the fixture you hypothetically designed in my log?? I dont think I would need any of the MOSFET boards, but at like $2 each I'll probably buy 5 or 6 anyway.
I'm guessing I would need a larger power supply than

Power supply
https://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-se-350-48/

3 Dimmable drivers
https://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-ldd-1000h-dimmable-driver/

1 LDD driver board 
https://www.rapidled.com/ldd-h-4s-driver-board/

I still need LED's and heat sinks.

The second fixture will run an Fspec in place of the DHL... since I already have these... or if I can do a full fixture maybe I would need the Beamsworks at all?


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> @ Jeffkrol would there be a way to run the 1w Beamswork fixture on say channel 1 and a handbuilt fixture on the other channels?


Yes
It's 4A per channel BUT you will only run the 1W "normally"..
Only one that would effect the system really..
hook the 21V ps to the tc-420.
hook the DHL to ch1


Ch2-5 will use the low level tap off the internal MOSFET gate..
This is 5v and like 20mA circuit.







All the other constant current "stuff" is a completely seperate system except for attaching the dim wire and attaching the 2 power supply neg grounds
Connecting high power LEDs to the TC420

I'm international.. 
http://www.acvariu.ro/forum/posts/list/200/36620.page


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Alright Jeffkrol. Started ordering parts. I went with a wider heatsink housing. I think I'll have room for 4 rows. 
Wiring different colors in a criss cross pattern has me a little worried. I think I'm give RapidLED a call so they can help me with drivers, led's, configuration, etc. I think I'll shell out the extra cash for the plug in ones. 

After pouring over your diagrams (which I can't tell you how much I appreciate... seriously) I've decided the Beamswork and Marineland fixtures just aren't needed and will add more complexity than I want. 

It's not that I'm untrusting, but I greatly appreciate disinterested knowledgable opinions. 

1. Would the single 36v Meanwell 350 be adequate for each fixture? 

2. I would like 4 channels. I was thinking perhaps 6500k, 660nm reds, and what 2 other colors??

3. What LED's do you suggest? Larger 6500k 3w and the rest 1w or all 1w?

I'm going to start copying threads into an index, but there are vastly different opinions on this. I think i would get better spread with 1 watt led's. I see RapidLED has some expensive lenses. Your opinions on lenses?


----------



## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

What size tanks is this going on again a 150?

With 36v it's likely at most each channel will be <36W unless you get into cobs or stuff running over 1A, so with 4 channels only 350W is probably more than double what you would need? Unless maybe you start running high current drivers and parallel strings? Might need to do more than 4 channels... (or power multiple units from the same 350w?)

Are you trying to do the wrgb thing?

For the 1w stuff you're pretty much looking at chinese stuff from the bay (OR ordering surface mount parts from mouser etc I'm pretty sure you don't want to deal with that.)? Not that there's anything wrong with that it's certainly cheaper... (well maybe not if you're ordering equivalent wattage? still probably cheaper), but I don't believe any of the websites I've looked at (rapidled / steves / ledsupply etc) really stock 1w diodes. I'm guessing for singles he's gonna recommend luxeon. I also prefer the luxeon stuff myself...

If you're doing rapidled solderless (is that what you mean?) I'm pretty sure there's like no 1w diodes there... If you mean dip sockets for the ldds you could potentially do that on most ldd boards, though theirs come like that already.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Amps add in parallel sooo.as a simple concept just add LDD's up (normally this will be quite high from reality but easy)
4 channel 4LDD 750's = 3Amps needed or 48 x 3= 108Watts

36V 350 will be good for 3 fixtures..plus.
12 750 LDD's...
JUST remember this doesn't power the TC-420(1)

Easiest is warm white, cool white, blue (normal not royal) w/ a few cyan thrown in, 660nm red

If you want to go cheap the 3W Luxeon Rebels on that marketplace (about $1 each) have been good to me.
I don't trust eek for any "CREE" diodes and Epistar/Bridgelux eggs burn out easily..Though dirt cheap at like 10 cents each.

Do it like this and no issues..
just remember to use the new wires soldered onto the MOSFET gate.
http://www.tc420.net/images/TC420/TC420-High-Power-LED-Circuit.png









at 36V assume 33V are "available".. Just add up V(f)'s per string..
10 3V V(f) diodes per series string..


----------



## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

How much current can it put out from the mostfet gate, it can most likely control multiple ldds from a single mosfet if he wanted to, that barely uses any per driver? and still be "4" channels...? Nevermind it clearly shows it doing that in the diagram.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Wobblebonk said:


> How much current can it put out from the mostfet gate, it can most likely control multiple ldds from a single mosfet if he wanted to, that barely uses any per driver? and still be "4" channels...? Nevermind it clearly shows it doing that in the diagram.



Yes , theoretically one can do 10's of LDD's per gate pulse.. 

At least if they didn't throttle the current..
Most Aduino type PWM pins are capable of like 20mA . The LDD's requires micro amps..
"I" never measured the current at the gate pin though..
voltage and frequency (hope they don't change it) and it follows expected..490-ish Hz 5V



In practice, I'd probably not go more than 4..
Theory contradicts someones experience argue against "many" Ldd's per gate..but who knows..Who is going to put 20 LDD's on one pulse..


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Wobblebonk said:


> What size tanks is this going on again a 150?
> 
> With 36v it's likely at most each channel will be <36W unless you get into cobs or stuff running over 1A, so with 4 channels only 350W is probably more than double what you would need? Unless maybe you start running high current drivers and parallel strings? Might need to do more than 4 channels... (or power multiple units from the same 350w?)
> 
> ...


I want to make 2 identical 4' fixtures. First each will light a 75 gallon. Later both will be used to light my 265 gallon.
The power supplies are cheap enough @ $50 each. Then $35 each for TC421 controllers. I'm long term "wasting" $85. The plan is to make 2 48" long fixtures. Like you said wrgb. I am going to use them on my 75 gallon tanks which desperately need a lighting overhaul, but the eventual plan is to use both in my 8' 265 gallon that I'm slowly piecing together. At that point the 75's will go to the fish room. I have tank, stand, and canopy now. Probably wont get it up and running until after I finish PA school, but you never know. 

So other than some soldering on the mosfet gates inside and say a max of 3 or 4 drivers per channel it does look terrible. I'll stick with the 3w Luxeons as I've heard nothing but praise. 
Just shooting from the hip what number of each should I look into?
I was also thinking of grouping them like this since I've only got 5 channels
Channel 1 6500k
Channel 2 Blue?
Channel 3 Green and cyan?
Channel 4 660nm red, ultraviolet, and deep red?
Channel 5 5000k?

I'm really happy with the TC421 and it's simple to use so I would like to work within its abilities. 

I could use a simple 12v wall wart to power the TC421. 

Eventually I want to mount both units in the canopy and mount the hardware along the rear of the canopy. Diego that i need to figure out a way to cleanly box everything up while they are on the 75 gallons.

I finished setting up the Finnex CC. Its alright... it does a fair enough job, but its clunky programming it and it doesnt seem to dim as evenly or precisely as the Beamswork with the TC421. The reds and greens... I dont know if they are some kind of multi function LED, but they are weak and just not what I want. I certainly wouldn't be happy having spent nearly $400 on 2 which would be necessary on a 75 gallon or $800 for 4 to light the 265 gallon. I figure I'll probably be around $400 five or take for each 4 foot fixture.. really it doesnt even matter since I can piece it together. 

How are you guys stabalizing the wires coming from the drivers into the led's in the heat sink? Or are the drivers mounted on the heatsink? How do you get one neat set of wiring into something at the start of the heatsink so that wires aren't inadvertently tugged from the diodes? I could solve that issue mounting everything permanently in the canopy, but not on the racks that the 75's currently sit on


----------



## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

This time I have my drivers in a separate enclosure with a 10 pin panel mount waterproof plug that goes to the light, (and a 2 pin for power input and 5 pin in for pwm) inside the heatsink/actual light I used zip ties to secure the wires to screws that are basically attached to nothing just to keep them out of the way / require one hell of a tug to really pull on the diodes. If I had enough room I would have probably used a 10 pin panel mount plug on the heatsink also. Besides a wire getting pulled off is not the end of the world, it would take me longer to take the lights down and open them up than to re-solder said wires.


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Also reference the modified TC421. Are we simply soldering a wire onto eat gate pin and utilizing that wire to run the negative to each driver on that channel?


----------



## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

I don't have a TC420/421 but I believe you connect that gate pin to the pwm pin on the ldds (it should be inputs on your LDD board, whichever one you decide to use) and then you will probably need to attach "ground" to v- input on your ldd board. I don't have enough experience with a TC420 maybe jeff can help you out with this part more.

But it may be more correct to have the violet with blue? But for max current it might line up more with red, mine don't have blue channels per se. Also deep red IS 660nm.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Wire from gate goes to PWM pin on driver. (it's positive btw, as is the signal from the gate 5v-ish +) 

driver has 3 "intake" wires +/-/PWM

and 2 out..+/-
Stick to the diagram;
http://www.tc420.net/images/TC420/TC420-High-Power-LED-Circuit.png
http://www.tc420.net/images/TC420/TC420-gate-pins.jpg

Yes don't mix red w. violet/uv..
Prob best to stick them w/ blue channel.



> I could use a simple 12v wall wart to power the TC421.


Yes, but you need to join the wall wart neg. w/ the LED power supply negative..



> How are you guys stabalizing the wires coming from the drivers into the led's in the heat sink? Or are the drivers mounted on the heatsink?


Personal choice.. Having the driver board topside on the heat sink is prob the neatest..and most common.


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

jeffkrol said:


> Wire from gate goes to PWM pin on driver. (it's positive btw, as is the signal from the gate 5v-ish +)
> 
> driver has 3 "intake" wires +/-/PWM
> 
> and 2 out..+/-


Oh.... negative is coming from power supply... got it


----------



## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Oh uhhh if you're doing 6500k and another channel of whites I would go much lower K for those than 5k will be hard for you to even see the difference probably from 6.5 to 5k, may as well go 2.5k or at least like 3.5k so there's real adjustment to be had.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

"At least" 4000k and on the cheap:
https://www.stevesleds.com/Luxeon-ES-Warm-WHITE-3-Watt-LEDs-4000K_p_198.html


----------

