# The solenoid valve chase, after Parker H3L



## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Good news to anyone successfully land the Parker Hannifin H3L Metering valve, there is burkert solenoid available, about 1/10 of the retail, it is the model 2822, miniature solenoid and much better than the burkert 6011.

The burkert 2822 is $200+ retail, stainless steel, only made in Germany, you can't even find this model on Burkert USA website, and have to special order and ship from Germany.
it is only 2 watt power consumption, the lowest power consumption I 've seen on the 1/8" npt ported solenoid from burkert.

Actually I've been eyeing this solenoid for more than a year, only see it available recently and the seller sell it at $25.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I don't see it.


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## nvladik (Jan 12, 2012)

31 each now, seller has 68 of em it seems. Search for burkert 2822 on evilbay.


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## TexasCichlid (Jul 12, 2011)

I don't even need another regulator but a Burkert 2822 with a Parker H3L is a ridiculous combo for as cheap as they are. Sorta jelly here!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

The problem is that the seller has them listed as an auction. I imagine the price we'll end up paying shipped will be close to $50. Plus you still need a 24 volt dc power supply. Still, not bad for what you get...


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Got some of these valves already, runs cool and sturdy, look good on the full stainless steel setup with this valve.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

Bettatail, I PMed you. I found a valve and wondered if it might work.


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## jbrady33 (Jun 7, 2012)

zero results on this right now, must be all gone.


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## nvladik (Jan 12, 2012)

Sold at $35.


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## daworldisblack (Jan 12, 2012)

Hmm.. dont see it any more.. anyone can confirm its still available?


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

daworldisblack said:


> Hmm.. dont see it any more.. anyone can confirm its still available?


The seller has a ton of them. Unless the buyer buys them all, he'll just relist them.


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## Mostro (Aug 26, 2012)

I bought just one with my winning bid, so I'm sure there will be another auction or BIN shortly. Maybe over the next few months if they're sold one at a time! I capped my bid in hopes of keeping prices down for future buyers.

Thanks Bettatail for posting this, I've been trolling evilbaby looking at solenoids for a loooooong time...


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

Mostro said:


> I bought just one with my winning bid, so I'm sure there will be another auction or BIN shortly. Maybe over the next few months if they're sold one at a time! I capped my bid in hopes of keeping prices down for future buyers.
> 
> Thanks Bettatail for posting this, I've been trolling evilbaby looking at solenoids for a loooooong time...


Very nice! I messaged the seller on eBay and he agreed to sell me 2 valves at the winning bid price. Just a heads up folks. 

Update: I purchased 2 valves from him for $78 shipped (2 x $35 + $8 shipping). Very easy to deal with.


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## sspark (Oct 30, 2012)

Bettatail said:


> Good news to anyone successfully land the Parker Hannifin H3L Metering valve, there is burkert solenoid available, about 1/10 of the retail, it is the model 2822, miniature solenoid and much better than the burkert 6011.
> 
> The burkert 2822 is $200+ retail, stainless steel, only made in Germany, you can't even find this model on Burkert USA website, and have to special order and ship from Germany.
> it is only 2 watt power consumption, the lowest power consumption I 've seen on the 1/8" npt ported solenoid from burkert.
> ...





Bettatail said:


> Good news to anyone successfully land the Parker Hannifin H3L Metering valve, there is burkert solenoid available, about 1/10 of the retail, it is the model 2822, miniature solenoid and much better than the burkert 6011.
> 
> The burkert 2822 is $200+ retail, stainless steel, only made in Germany, you can't even find this model on Burkert USA website, and have to special order and ship from Germany.
> it is only 2 watt power consumption, the lowest power consumption I 've seen on the 1/8" npt ported solenoid from burkert.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up!! I just ordered on today.

But would anyone know if this adapter will power the solenoid correctly?

Solenoid calls for: 24VDC 2W

Power Adapter OUTPUT: 24VDC 700mA 17W



Thanks!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes, that power adapter will work fine.


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## sspark (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks!

Sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.


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## blink (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up, I'll be ordering one of these once the seller gets back to me with a shipping quote.


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## Africancichlids637 (Sep 14, 2012)

Is there anything wrong with my burkert 2822. It seems to be pretty hot at a few hours of operation. Hot as in hot to the touch, and my milwaukee is no where near as hot as the burkert. I can't even feel the milwaukee being warm, the burkert it's hot. running on epson 24vdc .8A.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ I thought the lower power consumption could cause less heat. My Aquatic Life pulls power way more and it not hot. Now those asian DICI regulators got real hot real fast, might have to just trash the solenoid from them.

I was just about to post and ask how the heat is on these $50 dollar solenoid that retail for $200 that some guy on ebay is selling.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

They just run hot. Not as hot as the 6011 mind you. It should still outlast just about anything out there. The nut that sticks out of the 6011 will burn you if you hold on to it for too long. The engineers at Burkert swear up and down that the heat they create will not harm the solenoid.


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## Africancichlids637 (Sep 14, 2012)

oldpunk78 said:


> They just run hot. Not as hot as the 6011 mind you. It should still outlast just about anything out there. The nut that sticks out of the 6011 will burn you if you hold on to it for too long. The engineers at Burkert swear up and down that the heat they create will not harm the solenoid.


I was quite concern when I accidently touched it. At first i thought that maybe because I left it on over night. but when I had it on a timer going 2 hrs into operation it got hot. The milwaukee after 6hrs is not even warmed at all for the one I have. But, it's good to know that it's normal for the burkert to get hot and not defective.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

First, a 2 watt solenoid runs hot, but not as hot as a 4 watt, the 2 watt power consumption becomes heat eventually. 

I am going to test the solenoid, to see the actual current that flow through the burkert 2822.
at this point I believe even it is a 2 watt(24V DC, 83mA), there is no circuit inside(the solenoid or the power supply) to limit the current, so when you use a 800mA max output power supply, means more current pass through the solenoid and create heat.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

btw, any solenoid that I have experience with, if they are 1.5 watt or above, they are hot when touch, in different degree depends on how much the power consumption.

a clippard mouse solenoid never run hot....


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## Bubba_Shrimp (Jun 16, 2009)

I have two 24VDC power supplies incoming next week: 400mA and 100mA
Will see if 2822 heat up with those.


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## ekaser (Nov 7, 2012)

Recently I purchased the Burkert 6011 from AquariumPlants.com. They wired a 3 pronged cord to it so I don't need an adapter. Can this be done to this solenoid as well?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

No. The difference is in the coil. The one you got from aquariumplants is 110vac. The 2822 on eBay is 24vdc. you'll fry it if you plug it straight into your wall without a converter.


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## ekaser (Nov 7, 2012)

does this come with instructions to wired it to the adapter?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

ekaser said:


> does this come with instructions to wired it to the adapter?


As far as I know, no. 

You just have to take your adapter, cut off the barrel plug, and then connect the wires to the correct terminals.


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## Bubba_Shrimp (Jun 16, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> As far as I know, no.
> 
> You just have to take your adapter, cut off the barrel plug, and then connect the wires to the correct terminals.


Right, and I think polarity doesn't matter. 2822 has two identical wires coming out: white with blue stripe.


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

I installed Parker H3L about 2 weeks ago and it seems this metering valve would not fully close, I tried aligning the two ZEROs on the handle but the bubble rate would not fully stop.

The bubble rate I have currently is good even if this H3L would not close fully. But, I just wonder it cant be adjusted to zero rate bubble.

Is there anything I missed?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

herns said:


> I installed Parker H3L about 2 weeks ago and it seems this metering valve would not fully close, I tried aligning the two ZEROs on the handle but the bubble rate would not fully stop.
> 
> The bubble rate I have currently is good even if this H3L would not close fully. But, I just wonder it cant be adjusted to zero rate bubble.
> 
> Is there anything I missed?


Mine seems to close fine. Perhaps the vernier on yours is misaligned?


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

Darkblade48 said:


> Mine seems to close fine. Perhaps the vernier on yours is misaligned?




I open the knob and the zero reading aligns with the zero on the dial.
Maybe a debris is stuck inside the metering valve.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

herns said:


> I open the knob and the zero reading aligns with the zero on the dial.
> Maybe a debris is stuck inside the metering valve.


No.

You just need to adjust the zero setting to the actual closed position of the valve. It should have come with the necessary allen wrench to so along with the instructions.


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## Bubba_Shrimp (Jun 16, 2009)

Quick update. With 400mA power supply, 2822 still gets very hot. I had a Clippard solenoid once and it also was very hot and worked just fine... 

100mA power supply coming next week. Hopefully by that time Bettatail can test the actual current.


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## Africancichlids637 (Sep 14, 2012)

Bubba_Shrimp said:


> Quick update. With 400mA power supply, 2822 still gets very hot. I had a Clippard solenoid once and it also was very hot and worked just fine...
> 
> 100mA power supply coming next week. Hopefully by that time Bettatail can test the actual current.


Thanks for the update, but would the 100mA be enough to power that solenoid?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Africancichlids637 said:


> Thanks for the update, but would the 100mA be enough to power that solenoid?


According to the product specification sheet, the Burkert 2822 consumes either 1W or 2W (depending on model), so we can calculate ~83 mA current draw for the 2W model.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Bubba_Shrimp said:


> Quick update. With 400mA power supply, 2822 still gets very hot. I had a Clippard solenoid once and it also was very hot and worked just fine...
> 
> 100mA power supply coming next week. Hopefully by that time Bettatail can test the actual current.


need to dig out the multimeter, put it somewhere after I measured the actual current on some other solenoids a while ago....:icon_sad:

and a clippard solenoid does run HOT, it is about 6watts, the 0.67 watt clippard mouse is the one that feels nothing under room temp.


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## Bubba_Shrimp (Jun 16, 2009)

Update on power supplies. Instead of 100mA power supply I received 300mA one from Transtronics as they do not sell 10mA anymore.

Tested 2822 with the following two PSUs after 3 hours of work:

1) Jameco 24v DC 400mA, UL listed (eBay)
2) OEM model AD-2430L - 24V DC 300mA, UL listed (Transtronics)

With Jameco, 2822 gets very hot, can't touch. With OEM from Transtronics, 2822 stays a bit warm but not hot at all. No issues with hodling or touching it.

While 2822 was powered I measured the input voltage on solenoid (output from power supply) for both units. With Jameco the voltage reading was 27.2v and with OEM 24.8v. This may explain why 2822 gets hot with Jameco power supply.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Bubba_Shrimp said:


> While 2822 was powered I measured the input voltage on solenoid (output from power supply) for both units. With Jameco the voltage reading was 27.2v and with OEM 24.8v. This may explain why 2822 gets hot with Jameco power supply.


An extra 2.4V will make it that hot? That doesn't seem right to me...


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## mr_bob (Jun 26, 2011)

Most electronics are ok with a 10% +/- range of voltage and current requirements and if its a 24 volt transformer then yes that 2.8 volts will make a huge difference. Doesn't seem like much but it is.

Anyone know what the current needed to energize that coil is???


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

darkblade48 mentioned it, it is 83mA,

another possible reason is that first power adapter doesn't putout the right amount of current according to the using unit(83mA on Burkert 2822), current is the main reason of heat, not voltage.


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## mr_bob (Jun 26, 2011)

I wonder what the resistance of his coil is??? Its possible that once he put the transformer with the high voltage on it it shorted out a few of the winds. Cause at 24v @ 83ma that takes 1.9 watts of power and at 27.2v @ 83ma thats 2.25 watts of power which isn't huge difference but i believe you would be able to feel the heat difference. Now if his coil resistance was higher then normal it could be pull more then the 83ma


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Where is the best place to purchase a power supply for this solenoid?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

There are pretty cheap 100mA 24VDC wall worts on eBay. That's what I'm using and they seem to work well. Make sure you get one that's UL listed.


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## eatfood (Jan 26, 2012)

The trick is not the ma but using a switch mode power supply and not a transformer. The switch mode will put out the same voltage no matter where it is plugged in vs a transformer which will vary a little.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

eatfood said:


> The trick is not the ma but using a switch mode power supply and not a transformer. The switch mode will put out the same voltage no matter where it is plugged in vs a transformer which will vary a little.


you got me worry a little bit, :icon_bigg I tried different 24V DC power supply on the 2822 solenoid last week, and finally, see no over heat because all adapters are switch mode type, there are always circuit boards in those adapters, I think the output current were adjusted.

BTW, I also tested the 24V AC(60Hz) Burkert 6011 solenoids. I remember on a .pdf spec sheet of a different brand of solenoid, the 24V DC power supply does work on a 24V AC(60Hz), but the actual power consumption is much higher.
This is what I did, tested two Burkert 6011, 24V 60Hz on a 24V 60Hz power supply, the solenoid is warm as those Burkert 6011, 24V DC version, but switched to several 24V DC power supply on the 60Hz model, the solenoidfs were "BURNING HOT".


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Bettatail said:


> This is what I did, tested two Burkert 6011, 24V 60Hz on a 24V 60Hz power supply, the solenoid is warm as those Burkert 6011, 24V DC version, but switched to several 24V DC power supply on the 60Hz model, the solenoidfs were "BURNING HOT".


So moral of the story is if you have an AC solenoid, use an AC power supply


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> So moral of the story is if you have an AC solenoid, use an AC power supply


+1, 24V AC(60Hz) output power adapter is really, really hard to find.
only have one on hand, found it at thrift store more than a year ago, still looking for more because not only the AC input Burkert 6011, also have several more 24V AC(60Hz) stainless steel Numatics low power consumption solenoids that I got back in when I started the metering valve selection thread.


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## jbrady33 (Jun 7, 2012)

Any of these do the job for you?

This seems perfect for the super custom stuff you guys are doing, just the transformer in a sealed unit, super low mA available, several configs (mini, space limited, single/dual coil) The few I clicked on were only 10 bucks.

http://www.advancedcomponents.com/store/transformers/spk_miniature.htm


Pre made:

http://www.jameco.com/1/1/551-adu240100e0461-24vac-1000ma-output-ac-ac-wall-adapter-ac-ac.html

http://www.jameco.com/1/1/2118-mgt2420-24vac-830ma-output-ac-ac-wall-adapter-ac-ac.html

http://www.jameco.com/1/1/1010-adu240050-24vac-500ma-output-ac-ac-wall-adapter-ac-ac.html

http://www.amazon.com/Transformer-P...qid=1358521640&sr=8-9&keywords=24v+"ac+to+ac"

These seem like high load supplies:

http://www.amazon.com/Elk-TRG2440-24VAC-Transformer-Fuse/dp/B0007N5LJK/ref=pd_cp_e_0

http://www.amazon.com/24VAC-50amp-Single-Channel-Supply/dp/B004VMPNPK/ref=pd_cp_e_3


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

NICE!, getting them right now.

have a question though, is it the one from amazon suppose to be cheaper?


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## eatfood (Jan 26, 2012)

I am not an electrical engineer, but from a little research this is what I think is happening:
When you flip through the instruction booklet that comes with the Burkert 2822 it tells you to use a special $250 power supply. It produces a modulated power - "The average value of voltage (and current) fed to the load is controlled by turning the switch between supply and load on and off at a fast pace" - wikipedia. This is how a switch mode power supply works via a circuit board. transformers use two opposing coils and a magnetic field to reduce voltage (and output can vary with input fluctuations). I think what is happening is these solenoids are very precise pieces of equipment and do not handle voltage fluctuation at all (like a higher output than 24v thus getting very hot or not even working). I started out with a Jamco class 2 transformer (heavy bulky plug-in, coils and a metal housing) and it just did not work that well. I ordered a switch mode power supply (light weight small plug-in, circuit board) and now it works awesome without the added heat. switch mode will always put out a constant voltage (much like the modulated power supply Burkert suggests).


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## eatfood (Jan 26, 2012)

oh and the milliamps of the switch mode power supply does not matter as long as it is enough. The number is a max potential energy the plug-in can produce - your solenoid will only pull what it needs (2w).


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ Good lord, 

Sometimes I forget this is a fish tank forum. 

Can someone summary all this in English? 

If I buy this "x" solenoid, it needs this "x" DIN so you buy this "x" product.


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## eatfood (Jan 26, 2012)

just get a swith mode power supply that is it least 100 ma (for a 2 watt solenoid)

I was thinking that post was getting a little out of hand lol.


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## jbrady33 (Jun 7, 2012)

Bettatail said:


> NICE!, getting them right now.
> 
> have a question though, is it the one from amazon suppose to be cheaper?


Got me  that was a small amount of electrical knowledge & experience combined with some decent Google-Fu!


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## eatfood (Jan 26, 2012)

roud: - I think you are talking to me?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

need some rest before I can understand flyinghellfish and eatfood, then sort this thing out, good night to myself 8:40AM in the morning,
r...


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ Don't mind me, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. 

eatfood just took this hobby equipment selection to another level. I will leave you gents to your discussion, good day.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

So will this one work? http://www.jameco.com/1/1/551-adu240100e0461-24vac-1000ma-output-ac-ac-wall-adapter-ac-ac.html

Does it matter that it is 1000ma


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## eatfood (Jan 26, 2012)

^ no that is a transformer, ebay search 24v switching power supply should find you what you need (for a burkert 2822). basically they look like cell phone chargers (actually cell phone chargers are switching power adapters)


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Bettatail said:


> , the 0.67 watt clippard mouse is the one that feels nothing under room temp.


if that is the case
why would we not all use this one more??


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## eatfood (Jan 26, 2012)

10/32 connections


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> if that is the case
> why would we not all use this one more??





eatfood said:


> 10/32 connections


+1. The connections are a hassle to work with. 

You can drill them and then tap them to work with 1/8", but again, a hassle.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

cool thanks!


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

saw a couple burkert type 300 solenoid valves on evil bay, anyone interests?


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

any good deal of metering v on e b ay recently?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

herns said:


> any good deal of metering v on e b ay recently?


you missed it.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2734442&postcount=238


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Some alternatives to the clippard mouse solenoid. Both of the above pics have 0.65 watts and 10/32. No idea about pricing.

I wonder why people don't go for those "cool touch" solenoid. They are low watts and are cheap, most commonly found on Aquateks. It's a chinese manufacturer if I recall correctly. There is also a 2.4 watt warm to the touch solenoid from CS (British) that is on my Aquatic Life, again, they sell for cheap. I'm not sure about the maximum pressure they can hold but I'm certain they are usable to our hobby. Why the huge love for hot burkert ?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Some alternatives to the clippard mouse solenoid. Both of the above pics have 0.65 watts and 10/32. No idea about pricing.
> 
> I wonder why people don't go for those "cool touch" solenoid. They are low watts and are cheap, most commonly found on Aquateks. It's a chinese manufacturer if I recall correctly. There is also a 2.4 watt warm to the touch solenoid from CS (British) that is on my Aquatic Life, again, they sell for cheap. I'm not sure about the maximum pressure they can hold but I'm certain they are usable to our hobby. Why the huge love for hot burkert ?


I have them.


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## hverma (Mar 24, 2011)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Some alternatives to the clippard mouse solenoid. Both of the above pics have 0.65 watts and 10/32. No idea about pricing.
> 
> I wonder why people don't go for those "cool touch" solenoid. They are low watts and are cheap, most commonly found on Aquateks. It's a chinese manufacturer if I recall correctly. There is also a 2.4 watt warm to the touch solenoid from CS (British) that is on my Aquatic Life, again, they sell for cheap. I'm not sure about the maximum pressure they can hold but I'm certain they are usable to our hobby. Why the huge love for hot burkert ?



Do you think this solenoid will work for our purposes:
http://www.ascovalve.com/Applicatio...ew&userSelection=scaleType=English&newView=no



Bettatail said:


> saw a couple burkert type 300 solenoid valves on evil bay, anyone interests?


I didn't see one on e ba y. If you still see it listed, can you let me know? Thanks in advance.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Not sure about the orifice size on that one. I think 1/8 might be too big? Blah, no idea. I know that it better to get a smaller orifice size for our hobby. 

If you do a search on fleabay, there are some nice 10 - 20 dollar solenoid that look decent. Of course the drawback is that it is foreign asian made, might be a bit of a risk.


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## hverma (Mar 24, 2011)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Not sure about the orifice size on that one. I think 1/8 might be too big? Blah, no idea. I know that it better to get a smaller orifice size for our hobby.
> 
> If you do a search on fleabay, there are some nice 10 - 20 dollar solenoid that look decent. Of course the drawback is that it is foreign asian made, might be a bit of a risk.


Thank you FlyingHellFish. 

Can you please list some criteria we should look into when looking at the solenoids listed on e ba y? Like the pressure tolerance and things?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Sure, I'll try but I'm learning about them as well.

Voltage: AC 120v, if it's DC then you need an adapter.
Watts: anything under 4w will be good. After 7+ hours the solenoid gets hot. 
Normally Closed - NC
Ports: 1/4 or 1/8 ports - Depending on your build
Orifice Small size: - example 0.06 cv , the clippard mouse is 0.025
PSI: - 0 to x value. Depending on what you need.


I think I might just get a clippard mouse with the adapter, try my luck with those fragile 10/32 ports.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

The ASCO 411 valves pictured were (somebody check my facts please) Numatics "S" series valves before Numatics was folded into ASCO. They're SS, and while the .pdf says they have mounts with two 1/8" NPT ports, I've only been able to find mounts with 1/8" in and 10-32 out ports ...which makes them about the same as a Mouse.

Still, they're sexier (IMO) than Mice, and while the mount isn't SS, the price tag for both solenoid and mount is similar. So take your pick unless you can find a 1/8-1/8 mount.


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

Bettatail said:


> you missed it.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2734442&postcount=238




The one ended on $16? I saw it. Decided to pass.

Anymore comin?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

I found a low watt solenoid at 0.65 or 2, model number is G2012-5-LC-C107. It's the G and GH series of Gem's solenoid. 

The spec sheet has it listed with a manifold that has 1/8 ports. 









MOPD: 250 psi (17 bar)
CV Range: 0.018 to 0.070
0.65 Watts to 2.0 Watts

Their site list the price at 58 dolalrs, problem is you need to buy 10. I found a local Toronto dealer but it's a 100 dollar min per order. Maybe I'll buy two.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Hellfish, I see the G/GH info, including the 1/8 ports, but that's the inline one (LC). Did you see info on the mounts somewhere?

It seems to be a good bit easier to find workable solenoids (assuming you know basically what you're looking for) than it is to find a mount with 1/8 ports. I'd seen the Gems name, but hadn't looked into them - thanks hellfish! - and there look to be a few options.

With that in mind, I'm still looking for a place to purchase just a mount with two 1/8 ports, and I can't seem to find one on the Gems site. Miniature mounted solenoids all seem to work the same way, with the same 10-32 stud, but they have different measurements. A mouse is .875" diameter, which is a bit bigger than the Numatics/ASCO at .73 or the Gems at .69 or .75 (it's one or the other, the schematics make my pea brain hurt). But my *guess* is that the Numatics/ASCO and Gems will work with the same mount, though the Mouse probably won't.

Anyway, Hellfish (or anybody else), lemme know if you have a place (ideally US) that will do just 1/8 mounts (without the solenoid).

Here's a source for Numatics minis, and mounts (1/8 in, 10-32 out, same as Clippard Mouse), in the US. Basic solenoid is $40, mount is $10. Shipping extra.:
http://www.airoil.com/v6/contents/en-us/d128.html

*edit* I haven't looked into it past that page, so I don't know if there's a minimum order.

But here's a .pdf for the ASCO 411:
http://www.ascovalve.com/Common/PDFFiles/Product/411_SeriesR2.pdf
And here's a .pdf for the Gems G/GH:
http://www.gemssensors.com/en/Produ...se/~/media/GemsNA/CatalogPages/GGHSeries.ashx

*edit #2*
Might as well post it here. There's a ton of useable MAC valves available on Evilbay. Just do a search for "35a-aaa" in "Business and Industrial" and cross-reference the results to the index at the end of this .pdf ...you'll have to be careful, but many of the available models that begin with "35a-aaa-d*" will work. Unfortunately, you can no longer use "*" in Evilbay, so you'll have do do either just the "35a-aaa" or make a search list of all workable model numbers. Anyway, look for all the 1.8 and 2.4 watt models. Again, check the last couple pages of the .pdf ...and the picture of what you're looking for is the first entry in the .pdf.
http://macvalves.com/Portals/97890/docs/35catalog.pdf
Plenty for $30 or less, and no need for mounts. You'll generally need a 1/8" plug for the 3rd port.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Kevin, show the public what to get only if you are 100% sure it works and works well.

Gems solneoid is something else, it is re-branded other brand, I don't want to give more info here because for a 10-32 mounted type solenoid, clippard mouse is the way to go.

Numatics valve corporation owns ASCO, I believe, but they are independent operated.
Mac 35 series solenoid, 2.4 watts or lower power consumption model sure can be found on evil bay, but I don't recommend it because this type of solenoid has a top relieve port, the gas can be relieve through this relief port.
what cause the problem is when the solenoid gets old, the internal seal has problem to stop leaking through relieve port once the solenoid is at power on position.
I bought, and tested them, actually the solenoids mentioned in fryinghellfish and kevmo911 previous posts, I do have them, and have more brands, models that no one has any clue. I only show what to get only if I am sure they work, work well, and there is plenty to get when the time that large quantity of certain models show up on evil bay.
so far the clippard mouse mounted type solenoid, the burkert 2822, burkert 200 series and 300 series, numatics mounted type, and some others, are positively confirmed that work well, and I've been showing these models are ok to use in numerous threads, as well as showing hobbyists where to get them publicly or through Pms.

I don't give out other solenoid information because if there is no large quantity in a fair way everyone has a chance to grab, some people will take advantage of the info and act evil(grab them all on evil bay), I believe some people know what I am talking about here. 
I don't against anyone who do their own research, and grab all the solenoids or metering valves that they feel suitable from ebay, but act like vultures taking advantage of others research efforts, not good.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Clippard mouse, Numatics, Gems(re-branded), ASCO, and a couple more(not list here), are miniature or have miniature models, 10-32 manifold mounted type solenoids, these solenoids are slow flow rate and low power consumption, really good choice to use for our pressurized co2 system.

here is an old picture of the clippard mouse solenoid and the Numatics miniature stainless steel solenoid, on the clippard manifold.
and the burkert stainless steel type 200 solenoid is on the left.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

For such a small request, I'm surprise they don't make the thing. The Gem is in-line and 70 dollar per unit with a min of 10. I check the other solenoids, unfortunately none of them stand out and are high watts. Davis Control (distributor) is trying to find me another option, very nice of them especially for just one person. 

The Mac looks good, but I'm just so keen on getting these manifold. Would a custom order of a manifold be logical? I remember Swagelok had a poster saying something along the lines of "if you can dream it", "we can make it" or something. 

What if we get the dimensions of the solenoids from their respective pdf, go to a shop and get them to drill the 1/8 holes. 

PS - Couldn't find anything on the MAC, fleabay is weird sometimes. The clippard mouse always seem to show up and there is usually a very good deal on them. I seen lot of 5 for 30 bucks, shipping kills it for me though.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

here is a good one, mask the name of the solenoid because I don't want to give out info before I can talk to the seller to see if he has more and lists them for sale individually(not "lot"), so everyone builds their own pressurized system has a fair chance to get one.
it is a stainless steel solenoid that can rival the Burkert 2822.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks for the info, Betta. I haven't tested the MAC valves beyond reg and metering valve tests, during which they had no issues.

Interesting that you posted a pic of a Mouse and Numatics valve on the Clippard mount. You can really see the diameter difference. I assume they both work on that mount - is that a correct assumption?

Also interesting that the Gems are re-branded.

Hellfish, I tried to get my machinist friend to make me a bunch of SS Mouse mounts. Unfortunately, we've been drifting apart, though he still has my Mouse and mount, and I still have his promise to make me some. But it's been over a year now, so I'm not holding my breath. Might be worth looking into making a bunch of mounts. My friend told me a while back that the going rate was $30something/hour for just labor.

One other link - I've been using one of these on a Concoa 212 for a few months with no problems. It's a 4W SS CKD. Gets hot, but not too hot. Only problem is it's 1/8 BSPT ports, so you need two NPT/BSPT adapters and 1 BSPT plug. Probably $15-20 shipped from Grainger for 304 SS. And $21 shipped for the solenoid.
Evilbay #350448675414

As far as the MAC valve availability, there are 8 or 10 workable listings on the US 'bay, many of which have multiple units.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

kevmo911 said:


> Interesting that you posted a pic of a Mouse and Numatics valve on the Clippard mount. You can really see the diameter difference. I assume they both work on that mount - is that a correct assumption?
> 
> .


Clippard mouse, Numatics, Asco, Gems, and some other brands(don't want to give out info), if the solenoids are miniature 10-32 manifold mounted, manifold inlet/outlet type,
they all work on a clippard 15490 manifold.

and clippard is the only source provide single manifold that for $5 a piece, shipping and handling charge is not friendly though.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Bettatail said:


> I don't give out other solenoid information because if there is no large quantity in a fair way everyone has a chance to grab, some people will take advantage of the info and act evil(grab them all on evil bay), I believe some people know what I am talking about here.
> I don't against anyone who do their own research, and grab all the solenoids or metering valves that they feel suitable from ebay, but act like vultures taking advantage of others research efforts, not good.



Who would do such a thing  Not sure if that was towards me, I don't even sell. Did someone hog the burket solenoids? I totally miss that deal.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

nice solenoids and low power consumption, and actually the SMC VQ100 series pneumatic circuit solenoid, it is the lowest power consumption miniature type, I try to build a aluminum manifold but fail, not be able to achieve the precision on metal working, aluminum is not good to drill or tap, not like brass.
other SMC miniature, so bad there is no 1/8 npt port version and a clippard mouse solenoid mounted type is not be able to find.



> Who would do such a thing Not sure if that was towards me


Not you, I am talking about who bought the 5 Matheson 9400 on evil bay, and it is not the only case.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Yeah, those AK 47 regulators are a beau.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Yeah, those AK 47 regulators are a beau.


edited


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Who would do such a thing  Not sure if that was towards me, I don't even sell. Did someone hog the burket solenoids? I totally miss that deal.





Bettatail said:


> Not you, I am talking about who bought the 5 Matheson 9400 on evil bay, and it is not the only case.


Eh... It probably wasn't even one of us. We often forget that saltwater folks loves them some SS regs too. If it was someone here, we would eventually see them.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Save one for me?  
It sure is a nice mini solenoid valve.

I forgot to add on 3 more solenoid with low watts, but they're mostly panel mount and in-line, not that great in my opinion.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Save one for me?
> It sure is a nice mini solenoid valve.
> 
> I forgot to add on 3 more solenoid with low watts, but they're mostly panel mount and in-line, not that great in my opinion.


check your PM!


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## hverma (Mar 24, 2011)

Humphrey makes solid, reliable, heavy duty solenoids which can be used in our applications (haven't used them, but the spec sheets look good).


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

hverma said:


> Humphrey makes solid, reliable, heavy duty solenoids which can be used in our applications (haven't used them, but the spec sheets look good).


choice is limited on regular 1/8 npt port solenoid from humphrey.

only one model(2.4watts) out of the regular 1/8 npt port 2 way solenoid, is below 4watts.
currently have them(2.4watts) on the selling units.

low power consumption stainless steel Humphrey model exist, but not available on their website or on any PDF, they are the special order.
I was lucky to obtain some of these special Humphrey stainless steel solenoids, I believe they were used in tech trade show, then liquidated after the show.
it is in the picture, wasn't ready to give the name so I masked it, but now all of you know it is a Humphrey stainless steel solenoid.


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