# FYI Black Substrate Options w/ PICS (56k warning!)



## lauraleellbp

From left to right, Fluorite black, Fluorite black sand, Colorquartz black T grade, AquaPebbles black gravel









*In order from easiest to wash to most difficult:*

*AquaPebbles (30lbs)*









*Fluorite black (31 lbs)*









*Fluorite black sand (62 lbs)*

















*Colorquartz (50lbs)*


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## James From Cali

Great the colorquartz will be hardest to clean  lolz thanks lauralee


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## lauraleellbp

Yeah, that really surprised me, actually! Took twice as much rinsing than the Fluorite sand, I'd say I washed the CQ about 5 or 6 times, the Fluorite sand only took about 3 rinses, and the Fluorite black only 2x. Seachem must have taken some feedback and started prerinsing their substrate?


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## gumby

Great post! Will come in very usefull!


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## dekstr

Great post! This will be excellent reference for black substrates!


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## kvntran

Laura,

Great info. I'm shopping for black substrate as well.
If possible can you post price/unit?

Thanks.


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## allwet

i had to wash my 100Lbs 3m t-grade for about an hour which isnt to bad.was still little cloudy but after filter was turned on it cleared in a couple of hours.

before i got my 3m cQ i tried estes sand...never again! nasty stuff to say the least...35 Lbs i had to toss in the trash.

glad im using the cQ now.its just the right size for me.allwet.....


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## lauraleellbp

kvntran said:


> Laura,
> 
> Great info. I'm shopping for black substrate as well.
> If possible can you post price/unit?
> 
> Thanks.


I took back my Eco Complete to my LFS b/c of the quality control issues so my LFS gave all the Fluorite to me for the same price; $19.99/bag (15.4 lb/bag). They said they normally retail it for $24.99/bag.


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## SeaSerpant

How do you wash out the colorquartz?


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## James From Cali

Good question. I assume very similar to the process of Flourite or Sand am I right?


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## chicken

I wonder if some bags of colorquartz are dustier than others, because I barely rinsed mine at all. I put some in a bucket, rinsed it a couple times and that was it. There was a little clouding in the tank, but the filter cleared that up in no time.


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## allwet

i put about 15Lbs or so in a bucket and went and outside and turned the hose on and just filled the bucket up while swirling my poor frozen hand in the bucket i dumped the dirty water and started again till it became somewhat clear.went thru 100Lbs in no time.allwet....


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## lauraleellbp

That's what I did too, about 20lbs at a time in those 3gal buckets. The colorquartz was VERY dusty, and the water that came off was totally black! Took about 5 or 6 rinsings per bucket. 

Needessl to say, just washing 175lbs of substrate took me hours...


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## Craigthor

Good info. I used Tahitian Moon Sand in my tank as I couldn't get any other black sand locally.Didn't rinse just put it in the bottom filled slowly and had almost no cloudiness.

Craig


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## SeaSerpant

Lucky u guys are somewhere warm i'm in an igloo in canada.


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## lauraleellbp

FYI again- if you let the substrate dry before adding it to the tank (this was left outside on that white sheet on a sunny day, then sat in my tank overnight without water, you get NO CLOUDINESS) this is RIGHT after planting:


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## JustOneMore21

Awesome thread, Laura!

Do you think the Flourite Black is about the same size as Eco, or smaller? I haven't seen it in person yet....but I love the color of it.


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## lauraleellbp

I'd say the regular Fluorite black is the same size as regular Fluorite. 

I'm not sure what Eco is SUPPOSED to look like, since the bags I bought were all off, and varied grain sizes? (I took it all back and that's why I got the Fluorite instead...)

If I had it to do all over again I'd skip the Fluorite sand and just mix the regular black with CQ. :thumbsup:


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## Ryzilla

Did you mixed it all together?


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## lauraleellbp

Yes and no - there's a detailed setup in my "New World" thread in the Photo forum, with pics


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## fusQer

does anyone have recent experience on where to order from to get the best shipping rate? I am looking for black flourite for a 90 gallon (48" x 18" footprint). I need about 7 bags for ~4" depth right?


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## lauraleellbp

Dr. F&S tends to have pretty reasonable shipping. They've actually lowered their shipping costs since I first priced out ordering Fluorite through them.

BigAls has price matching, so that's the other place I'd price it out.

GreenLeafAquariums.com I haven't priced their shipping on Fluorite, but if you want it quick- they're the way to go.

I don't think 7 bags will you get 4" in a 90gal. I used 6 bags of Fluorite, 50lbs of Colorquartz, PLUS 35lbs of black gravel in my 90gal and my substrate is between 3-5" (it's sloped pretty steeply). You might see about trying to find some Colorquartz to mix in if you want a cost-effective way to stretch your Fluorite, I like the way they mixed together in my tank.


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## fusQer

thanks. how many bags of flourite black do you think i need to get 4" in a 90 (48" x 18")? did your 6 bags of flourite give you 3"?


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## lauraleellbp

I used a total of 175lbs of substrate. It's kind of hard to say, since I also mixed different sizes of substrate in my tank, though... I'd guess 8-9 bags of the regular FL. black should get you between 3-4"? A 90 is a nice wide tank, and that extra 6" does make a big difference in the amount of substrate you need over a 55gal.


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## Joetee

How I washed my Flourite was I just pour it into the tank. Level it out the way I want it. Slowly cover it with water to about 3 inches without disturbing it. Then with my hand I just swish the top 2 inches or so around. Drain it and repeat a couple times. I don't worry about rinsing all of it out because it is on the bottom anyway.
When I plant or replant, I only get just a little bit of dust up and it clears up fast.
This was much easier than rinsing every bag.

Joe


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## Chrisinator

Awesome tank!


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## fusQer

how is flourite black when vacuuming the gravel with a python? is it heavy enough to fight the suction or do you have to be very careful not to suck it up?


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## fishsandwitch

where can I buy colorquarts


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## lauraleellbp

fusQ- no, you can't use a Python on any Fluorite IME without it being sucked up. You have to stir up any detritus into the water column and then suck it up from there. I've heard some ppl attach a chopstick or something similar to the tip of their Python to help stir stuff up, and I thought that sounds like an excellent idea.

fish- I went to www.3M.com and located a local pool supply company that sold a bag to me. Was $23 and some change for a 50lb bag. You can get lots of different colors, and it comes in S grade and T grade. S grade is super, super fine- I used T grade.


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## Left C

fusQer said:


> does anyone have recent experience on where to order from to get the best shipping rate? I am looking for black flourite for a 90 gallon (48" x 18" footprint). I need about 7 bags for ~4" depth right?


Here's a substrate calculator: http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html


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## willie3

*More substrate...*

Has anyone used Aquarium Plants.coms own Freshwater Plant Substate?It is cheaper than Eco-complete but is it decent quality & does itwork well? Thinking of redoing my 65 gal planted tank Need some input. Thanks!!


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## lauraleellbp

Rumor has it that AquariumPlants "Own" is just repackaged SoilMasterSelect substrate. I have no personal experience with either, but I hear they are light grey in color, and lightweight to the point that sometimes it can be difficult to get plants to stay down.

www.Lesco.com distributes a similar product called Turface that also runs about $25 for a 50lb bag. You can have a bag delivered to a local John Deere store and pick it up from there.


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## motoNC

lauralee, thanks for posting this thread! This is something I was trying to figure out! I saw black flourite in a planted tank at the LFS and I love the look! It is a beautiful contrast to the plants and fish. 

I'm looking at doing a similar thing in my new 75g setup I'm working on. I'm trying to decide whether to use black flourite/colorquartz or just black flourite. Via the substrate calculator, I need 80lbs total of flourite for a substrate depth of 4". 

As I understand it the colorquartz has absolutely no nutrients for the plants. 
Would a 50/50 mix with black flourite be a good way to go? 

Was the size of aquaquartz and black flourite similar in the batches you got? 

If its close on the money, I'm thinking to getting just black flourite. Would I just be spending extra in this case with no real benefit?


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## macclellan

To make this more comprehensive, you should include: Tahitian Moon Sand, Onyx Sand, Aquasoil, and charcoal Soil Master Select. At least Tahitian moon sand is pure black. Aquasoil is pretty close. The other two are more dark greys, but pretty close.

Nice start though!


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## lauraleellbp

Mac- If anyone else has pics of those others to post, that would be great.  

I only posted the ones I've personally dealt with.

I do have some AquaSoil now, though, so I can post some pics of that later.

I'm interested in exactly how TMS compares with ColorQuartz, b/c I've heard several rumors that they're one and the same.

moto- I felt the colorquartz and black fluorite mixed well. The CQ will go to the bottom over time b/c most of the grains are smaller, which is part of why I added peat at the very bottom of my tank for some extra nutrients.

It's a judgment call whether to just go with straight up Fluorite or add CQ. I think you can get good results either way. I also use WonderGro root tabs with my mix.


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## fusQer

i ordered 9 bags of flourite black from F&S for $213 shipped (5 different tracking numbers). thanks for your help lauralee.

i'm also getting new lights to replace my two year old AHsupply bulbs, im thinking of getting the inexpensive 9325K ones. any experience? ill look in the other threads under lighting too


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## lauraleellbp

5 different tracking #s?  I hope you weren't charged shipping each time? LOL

I like the looks of the 9325k bulbs quite a bit- I wish they made T5HO in that spectrum :thumbsup:


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## fusQer

ok ordering 6 x 9325 
and yes 5 different tracking numbers, 3 boxes arrive tomorrow, 2 boxes arrive day after tomorrow. each box is 33~ pounds, except for one that is ~16 pounds that has only 1 bag of flourite in it. 

i only got charged $14~ for shipping. amazing!


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## Yassmeena

lauraleellbp said:


> fusQ- no, you can't use a Python on any Fluorite IME without it being sucked up. You have to stir up any detritus into the water column and then suck it up from there. I've heard some ppl attach a chopstick or something similar to the tip of their Python to help stir stuff up, and I thought that sounds like an excellent idea.
> 
> fish- I went to www.3M.com and located a local pool supply company that sold a bag to me. Was $23 and some change for a 50lb bag. You can get lots of different colors, and it comes in S grade and T grade. S grade is super, super fine- I used T grade.


Hey Lauralee - great great thread!!! :thumbsup: 

I am wondering about the 3m CQ in S grade. Do you think if I use it in conjunction with some fertilizer tabs only, I will have a nutrient rich substrate?

I am currently growing amazons, crinums, valls , bacopa and anubias in Eco and gravel, but need to replace it with something finer in order plant HC.


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## lauraleellbp

Yassmeena- The S grade is REALLY fine, I'd worry about compaction and hydrogen sulifde with that grade, personally. You'd also have problems sucking it up with any sort of vacuuming... IMO the T grade should do a good job for you as far as size goes, but I think almost all carpeting plants grow better in nutrient-laden substrates, and fert tabs usually work better under larger plants so you can position them right in their root zone... 

In your shoes, I'd probably go with the Fluorite black sand instead of CQ in the areas you want carpeted.


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## Yassmeena

lauraleellbp said:


> Yassmeena- The S grade is REALLY fine, I'd worry about compaction and hydrogen sulifde with that grade, personally. You'd also have problems sucking it up with any sort of vacuuming... IMO the T grade should do a good job for you as far as size goes, but I think almost all carpeting plants grow better in nutrient-laden substrates, and fert tabs usually work better under larger plants so you can position them right in their root zone...
> 
> In your shoes, I'd probably go with the Fluorite black sand instead of CQ in the areas you want carpeted.


Hi Lauralee - I came to the same conclusion this morning, and will be picking up the flourite black sand from my LFS Weds! :thumbsup:


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## lauraleellbp

Let us know how it works out for you, and some pics would be great too!


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## Yassmeena

lauraleellbp said:


> Let us know how it works out for you, and some pics would be great too!


will do! i'm thinking of posting a journal to track my progress and share any lessons learned, etc


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## VertiGoat

I know this thread is older but wanted to revive it just to say thanks for posting the substrate comparison. you don't get to see too many straight up comparisons on these forums.. a lot of anacedotal stories, which are great too. just really nice to see a simple sort of 1 for 1 comparisons and photos and methods the same for use of each product. thanks lauralee


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## lauraleellbp

Hey you're quite welcome!

Still waiting on some good pics of Eco Complete and AquaSoil, if anyone wants to post some.

(I still haven't set up my AS tank yet...)


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## scada57

lauraleellbp said:


> Hey you're quite welcome!
> 
> Still waiting on some good pics of Eco Complete and AquaSoil, if anyone wants to post some.


Me too! I'm still seriously considering Eco Complete for the 175G I'm putting together. I'd hoped that the delays I've had would have given them enough time to sort out their reported quality problems. 

I'm looking for that 'natural-but-black' look, together with the nutrients. Looking at the photos of EC on various web sites selling it, it seems to vary from 'perfect' to looking like regular gravel with bits of red in there.

I'm interested if anyone has recent (last couple of months) experience with EC, and photos? 

Thanks for starting the thread Laura - I think a table showing all the products, unit pricing, plus/minus would be very useful as a sticky.,

-Steve


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## motoNC

If no one beats me to it, I'll post up some pics of eco complete soon (I have to borrow a camera). 

I just setup two 8 gallon tanks with it, one for my grandfather and one as a breeding tank for some blue rams for me. As far as size and appearance, I think its one of the most attractive of the "natural looking" substrate types. 

Lauralee, Is the colorquartz 'S' grade size on the order of sand? 

I'm looking for an attractive and inexpensive sand and it certainly is inexpensive!


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## chase127

heres a close up of some eco in my 5.5. i love the natural look. it looks like its from a volcanic river or something  theres more pics in my journal of it zoomed out. does anyone have some closeups of SMS charcoal or Turface?


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## lauraleellbp

motoNC said:


> Lauralee, Is the colorquartz 'S' grade size on the order of sand?
> 
> I'm looking for an attractive and inexpensive sand and it certainly is inexpensive!


The S grade is EXTREMELY fine- I'd really recommend the T grade instead.

Scada, the price on all of these substrates actually fluctuates quite a bit from source to source, especially depending on shipping costs.


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## motoNC

lauraleellbp said:


> The S grade is EXTREMELY fine- I'd really recommend the T grade instead.
> 
> Scada, the price on all of these substrates actually fluctuates quite a bit from source to source, especially depending on shipping costs.


Too late! I got some black s grade yesterday. It does look about the size of very fine sand. We'll see how it goes.

Like lauralee said, shipping is usually the deciding factor on who is cheapest on substrate. Purchasing black flourite recently, Drs. Foster and Smith had the best deal on black flourite by a few bucks for that reason. They only charged me $15 on a $200 order that included 4 bags of substrate. Their black flourite price is higher than big al's, but with shipping considered, they were cheaper.

Scada, If you want a mostly black substrate, then you probably won't be pleased with eco complete. Mine is primarily black but with lots of grey and some red. It's a beautiful substrate, but again not a consistent black/dark color.


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## motoNC

I got some black s grade colorquartz. Its a very fine grade, which is what I was looking for. Great price on a beautiful product. 

I poured off ~ 5X before the water was clear cleaning ~ 2-3 gallons at a time.I did have a strange experience cleaning the stuff. The wash off residue stained my hands, and the inside of my bucket. It is supposed to be non toxic, but anything that stains like that concerns me. That said, after cleaning off the residue from inside the tank a few times, it hasn't been a problem. 

anybody else have this happen with colorquartz?


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## lauraleellbp

That's bizarre! Stained as in dyed, or stained as in the dust was so fine it made a mud on your hand?


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## deeda

The black CQ S-grade is the worst to clean. It stained my hands & cleaning pail but it does wear off. Stained as in dyed. I'm sure it is just residue from the manufacturing process. Everyone that has posted on this stuff has had varying comments. I found it a non-issue and am very pleased with mine. You can always wear rubber or vinyl gloves to wash the stuff.


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## motoNC

lauraleellbp said:


> That's bizarre! Stained as in dyed, or stained as in the dust was so fine it made a mud on your hand?


like deeda said, dyed.

Good to hear that you haven't had any real problems after cleaning either, deeda. 

I would recommend gloves. I'm rough around the edges so stained black hands looked natural!


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## lauraleellbp

Has anyone reported the same issue with T grade?


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## moogoo

hey lauralee...

I'm in the process of planning a redo of my 30 gal. looking for a nice, black substrate. I'm pretty disappointed with eco-complete's varied grain size. I'm not too keen on the jaggedness of flourite and assume flourite black is very similar.

How is the grain size of the flourite black sand? it is pretty uniform? Thanks for your help. great thread and awesome tank


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## lauraleellbp

Yes, the sand is very uniform, and the texture of just that- fine sand.


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## moogoo

great. thanks for your input. btw, i tried to rescue some cardinals from petsmart the other day, but after a few days in QT, they succumbed to their ailments....


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## lauraleellbp

I'm sorry they didn't make it.

IME it's really really hard to "bring back" a sick Cardinal. They tend to go fast by the time you can tell anything is wrong...


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## Rua

Great photos of the substrates! I just picked up some Flourite Black Sand yesterday - was warned by lfs guy that it would need LOTS of rinsing so I'll post back on that later ...

Just a comment on the CQ S grade - is the 'staining' comparable to washing very fine charcoal/carbon? I'm sceptical that there would actually be remaining dye compund left in the product (imagine the responses from the pool owners that put the stuff in OR maybe it's only ever sold to aquarists lol); charcoal dust 'stains' as it adheres to the skin & the million tiny abrasions in plastic buckets; if you think about how charcoal/carbon is used for it's binding properties, it's easy to understand why the residue sticks so thoroughly.

Re Eco-Complete I first bought this several years ago, loved it; moved to Ireland in 03, used this absolutely awful off-white floaty stuff as it was the only plant substrate available, then Carib Sea brought Eco-Complete into the UK, so I switched over to that in 04: great stuff. Moved back to Canada & got 'new' Eco-Complete in 07 - the label on bag is the same but the product is completely different grain size & color! I was glad that I only picked up a single bag.


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## lauraleellbp

Welcome to TPT, Rua! :smile:

Please do let us know how it works out, and I hope you post some pics of your tank once you're done with it. 

I also have a bag of Seachem's Onyx sand that I'll be washing next weekend; I'll post some pics of that to compare to the Flourite black sand. From appearance, I think the Onyx sand is a little lighter in color. In chemical composition I know that they are a bit different; Onyx sand has some carbonate content so tends to raise and buffer pH and hardness a bit.

I also will get some pics of ADA AquaSoil Amazonia II if I get a chance to get started on that tank as well.

Anyone want to post some pics of Eco Complete?


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## forddna

Eco Complete. Click to enlarge - the pic is very big.


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## forddna

A pic with more lighting.


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## lauraleellbp

Cool, thanks!


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## forddna

*cursing the Blyxa* sure, no problem! (I took that second pic today)


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## chase127

does anyone have any pics of soil master select charcoal/turface?


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## chase127

hey LL where did you pick up your black cq?


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## lauraleellbp

chris127 said:


> hey LL where did you pick up your black cq?


There's a pool supply store off of old 41 and 41 in North Naples. I found the place on www.3M.com. I picked up their last 2 bags of black T grade last week, but they can always order in more. Price has gone up though, I paid $27 a bag this time instead of $23 last time.


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## chase127

i cant find the store with all their filters  do you remember the address?


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## bradac56

lauraleellbp said:


> Rumor has it that AquariumPlants "Own" is just repackaged SoilMasterSelect substrate. I have no personal experience with either, but I hear they are light grey in color, and lightweight to the point that sometimes it can be difficult to get plants to stay down.
> 
> www.Lesco.com distributes a similar product called Turface that also runs about $25 for a 50lb bag. You can have a bag delivered to a local John Deere store and pick it up from there.



I've used both and I've done some non-pro testing and it seems very likely
that Aquariumplants is just re-packaging an Oildry product (SMS) but more
importantly several very smart people on APC believes the same thing.

Oildry stopped making SMS and replaced it with several versions of Truface
the one you want for aquariums is the Pro Grey version.

- Brad


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## lauraleellbp

chris127 said:


> i cant find the store with all their filters  do you remember the address?


I don't remember the name, but here's their contact info:

239-513-0633
1095 Business Lane
Naples


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## chase127

lauraleellbp said:


> I don't remember the name, but here's their contact info:
> 
> 239-513-0633
> 1095 Business Lane
> Naples


thanks


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## moogoo

Just a quick question...does flourite black sand have all the nutrient benefits of regular flourite?


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## epicfish

moogoo said:


> Just a quick question...does flourite black sand have all the nutrient benefits of regular flourite?


It has the same as Fluorite black.

For a more comprehensive look, visit: http://www.seachem.com/support/GravelMineralComposition.pdf

Note that even regular Fluorite, dark, red, and black are different than each other.


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## Left C

The Black T grade is $28.70 at my nearest dealer.


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## Left C

lauraleellbp said:


> ... I also have a bag of Seachem's Onyx sand that I'll be washing next weekend; I'll post some pics of that to compare to the Flourite black sand. From appearance, I think the Onyx sand is a little lighter in color. In chemical composition I know that they are a bit different; Onyx sand has some carbonate content so tends to raise and buffer pH and hardness a bit.
> ...


Hi LL

I tried some Onyx Sand a few years ago. I hated it's color. It is a gray color that seems to be a bit shiny when wet.

The buffering capacity didn't bother me. I have soft water anyway.

Seachem's Gray Coast Calcite is the exact same product as Onyx Sand. It comes in a 10 kg bag vs. Onyx Sand's 7 kg bag. Also, the Gray Coast Calcite is usually a little bit cheaper per bag.
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/GrayCoast.html

Left C


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## dylanserbin

haha im form edmonton too! millwoods. Maybe we could do some swaps some time.


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## Guerillah

I'm doing a planted 120 gallon, what should I mix with my black t grade color quartz? I have 100lbs of the T grade already... should I mix with eco-complete, flourite black, or flourite black sand?


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## Hoppy

Guerillah said:


> I'm doing a planted 120 gallon, what should I mix with my black t grade color quartz? I have 100lbs of the T grade already... should I mix with eco-complete, flourite black, or flourite black sand?


Don't mix anything with it unless you want a substrate with nutrients in it. In that case look at the sticky about mineralized topsoil. If you use that, mix it with the bottom layer, only, of the colorquartz, then top it with just the colorquartz.


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## plantbrain

Black flourite looks decent.
I like the sand.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain

epicfish said:


> It has the same as Fluorite black.
> 
> For a more comprehensive look, visit: http://www.seachem.com/support/GravelMineralComposition.pdf
> 
> Note that even regular Fluorite, dark, red, and black are different than each other.


This does not tell you much FYI.
What is really needed is the types of minerals, CEC, not the elemental alone.

Touramilne sounds all great till you realize the stuff is insanely insoluble and thus not biologically available, much like SiO2, glass, is hardly a source of oxygen either...............

So you need other measurements to answer a Biological question, not a geological chemical make up question of the elements.

Big difference.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## lauraleellbp

Oh I just realized that I never posted pics of the Onyx sand or ADA AquaSoil Amazonia II... So here goes:

The Onyx Sand looks decidedly purple when under light with a high red spectrum. This is Onyx Sand mixed with a little black ColorQuartz in a 10gal tank:



















IMO the ADA AquaSoil Amazonia II definitely looks more brown than black or grey, this is in a 29gal tank:


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## marrow

Colorquartz is sprayed with a light mineral oil to minimize airborne dust during manufacturing and transport. This minimizes airborne dust but makes ultra fine dust sticky. This is what was told to me by 3M when I eventually navigated through endless voice mail menus and people until I reached the 'colorquartz guy'. Remember the stuff is not designed for the convenience of aquarists and less airborne dust is a good thing for workers and for its target users. I like it because it looks blacker under water and is easy to find in Minnesota.


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## TheCryptKeeper

I wanted to do the colorquartz.. but it was too much of a pain in the ass to find around here.. and 100lbs would have cost me over 100.00 to have it shipped.. only cost 30.00 per bag.

shame.. I really like it


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## Guerillah

Hoppy said:


> Don't mix anything with it unless you want a substrate with nutrients in it. In that case look at the sticky about mineralized topsoil. If you use that, mix it with the bottom layer, only, of the colorquartz, then top it with just the colorquartz.


I want a substrate with nutrients, im just going to 40% of CQ to save money. What would best go with the CQ that has nutrients in it? Regular black flourite, flourite black sand, or eco complete? Anyone got any experiences mixing any of those with CQ.


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## TheCryptKeeper

if you end up mixing sand with anything other than sand it will separate over time and end up at the bottom.


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## lauraleellbp

If you go back to the very beginning of this thread, I mixed all of those substrates together for my 90gal; CQ, Flourite black, Flourite black sand, and black gravel. 

IMO it's worked out well.

If I had it to do over again I'd go with mineralized soil and CQ, though. I'm about to restart my 46gal with this mix.


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## Hoppy

If I could have found the color quartz black sand easily enough I would have used it to cap my mineralized topsoil 10 gallon tank today. I think that would be a great combination. Instead I used Flourite black sand with the mineralized topsoil, which is also a great combination, and not terribly expensive for a 10 gallon tank.


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## lauraleellbp

Hoppy, the CQ black sand is SUPER-fine, I don't think it would work to cap anything since it would migrate to the bottom. It's like sugar-sand if you've ever been to a beach that has that?


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## Hoppy

lauraleellbp said:


> Hoppy, the CQ black sand is SUPER-fine, I don't think it would work to cap anything since it would migrate to the bottom. It's like sugar-sand if you've ever been to a beach that has that?


I understand it comes in two grades, particle sizes, with one of them being more like our usual substrate material. I quit doing research on it when I phoned around and had little luck finding some that I could buy. Flourite black sand is also finer in particle size than we are used to seeing, but it does work well. On the other hand I looked at Quikcrete play sand at Home Depot, and it looked much too fine to suit me. Is there any research that shows the range of particle sizes that work well as a substrate?


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## lauraleellbp

I'm not sure that I've run across Barr-quality scientific research )), but I know most of the hobbyist articles I've read have said that around 3mm is usually the recommended size.

The T grade CQ is the larger (it's around 3mm, and the size I have), the S grade is the super-fine.


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## SCMurphy

The S grade CQ gets blown around way too easily by filter flow, the T grade CQ is the good stuff that holds a slope. I haven't tried any of the other substrates to know what they are like in flow.


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## talontsiawd

Good post. I can take some pics of flourite black if anyone is interested. Let me know because i'm thinking of capping it with black gravel as the particles are half the size as the flourite red for some reason and after covering it, i don't want to see it again.

Also, i was very happy how easily the florite black rinsed. It took me 2 rinses, i did a 3rd just cause. Compared to my flourite red, such a difference. That stuff took me FOREVER, maybe 5x to 8x more. My tank was still much more cloudy with the red and is when aggetated, my tank can easily get some red again. I defineatly regret the red and wish i just got rid of it when i put the black in. I would have gone with the sand but i figured the black would stay on top longer. It is much finer than the red too so i'm screwed lol.


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## Church

Woohoo! I finally found a construction supply house in town that had a one single bag of the T grade left, and I snatched it up! The one question I'm wondering about now is will one 50 lb bag be enough for a 36"x12" footprint? Does anyone know? The bag seems a bit small to me...

If it won't be enough, I'll have to either wait until a new shipment gets freighted in to this place, or I'll just mix it with Fluorite black. But I really wanted 100% colorquartz.

Anyone know?


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## lauraleellbp

I think it will, Church- IME a little bit goes a pretty long way b/c of the shape of the grains (round).

If you need just a little bit more, LMK, I've got a little more than I think I'm going to need for my 46gal and could probably Flat Rate it to you.


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## Church

Thanks, Laura, that's awesome of you! I'll let you know very soon, then. Hopefully I can get it all rinsed and poured into the aquarium this evening. I mean, the truth is, for this tank I don't need any hellacious slopes or anything, so maybe this one bag will be enough... I guess I'll find out real soon!

Thanks again!


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## Church

By the way, it was fun talking to the guys at the supply company about planted tanks... they were so interested in what I was using it for! I told them it was for a planted aquarium, and they thought it was the coolest concept in the world, as if they had never heard of putting plants in an aquarium. One guy told me that he sees Google results pertaining to aquariums whenever he is Googling about color quartz, but he never knew exactly why it would be used. He said he just figured people used it to create rock walls and that sort of thing.

It felt good to educate them about it. I wouldn't be surprised if I just recruited a few more people to our hobby!


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## Ryzilla

Church,

I used 30lbs of black flourite and 30lbs of grade T in my 38g (same foot print that you have). It was more than enough. If I went all CQ T grade it would have been fine.


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## Church

Well I was actually able to do what I wanted with the entire 50 lbs, so I'm good. It didn't even require a whole lot of rinsing. The rinsing part took a mere half hour. This stuff is my favorite substrate yet, in terms of looks and ease of use. It's really easy to sculpt and mold to your contours. Here's a sneak peek of what I did with it:










So yeah, I'm happy with it. Laura, thanks again for offering some to me, you're very kind.


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## lauraleellbp

OK offer still stands if you change your mind. 

I really like the 'scape, BTW! :thumbsup:


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## Church

Thank you! And I suppose I just _might_ take you up on that offer if I determine that I need more of a slope over on the left side. I'll find out when I plant. And I'll do that when I decide _what_ I'm gonna plant in there! :icon_roll


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## hokuryu

Learning a lot in short order, thanks, Laural, for such a great thread. 

As you know, I've got a 20H tank, with black gravel nearing cycle completion. I am going to go with your suggestion on the other thread re: lighting, and get the BigAl's 24" strip. I'd like a mix of Java ferns and mossy or grassy carpet, to start, and wondered if you see any issues along these lines:

I don't relish buying 2 bags of Flourite, when it looks like I need about 20 lbs. total for a 2" cover. You indicate you've mixed these substrates together, and it's good to go - in your opinion, any issues with using a 15lbs. Flourite bag with whatever was needed from my existing gravel, nutritionally speaking? If it's OK to mix, would you suggest doing a bottom layer of the Flourite, and topping with gravel, or mixing is just as good?

I'd like a carpet along a portion of the tank, with a "river" cutting through of plain black gravel - do I understand properly that sand is preferred for carpet plants? is there any issue with just using Flourite sand for all my plants, or is one better off setting "micro" areas of different size substrates, depending on plants and coverage needs?

Many thanks.


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## lauraleellbp

Keep in mind that the bigger grains will migrate to the top over time, and the smaller to the bottom. So the gravel will end up on top. Personally, I'd ditch the gravel and spend the extra $15 for another bag of Flourite, though- carpeting plants do best in fine-grained substrates with nutrient content or ones that can hold nutrients (like Flourite), which sand cannot.

In a 20gal tank I wouldn't even try to set up "micro" areas of different substrates- they all end up mixed in the long run.

You can try a white sand "river" if you'd like (Carole- waterfaller1- somehow manages to maintain hers looking awesome) but personally I gave up on them a long time ago- mine always looked like crap in less than a week, between getting dirty and getting hopelessly mixed in with the other substrate LOL :icon_roll

EDIT- oh - keep the mulm from your current tank; do a good gravel vacuum just before breaking down and restarting the tank, and keep the brown gunk from the bottom of the tank. Put that underneath the Flourite when you set the tank back up, along with quite a bit of the tank water- and you should be able to maintain a good portion of your N-bacteria colony that way. Doing that was enough to cycle my 90gal; I never had any ammonia spikes in my tank at all, starting it with fresh mulm and an established filter. :thumbsup:


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## hokuryu

lauraleellbp said:


> Keep in mind that the bigger grains will migrate to the top over time, and the smaller to the bottom. So the gravel will end up on top. Personally, I'd ditch the gravel and spend the extra $15 for another bag of Flourite, though- carpeting plants do best in fine-grained substrates with nutrient content or ones that can hold nutrients (like Flourite), which sand cannot.
> 
> In a 20gal tank I wouldn't even try to set up areas of different substrates- they all end up mixed in the long run.
> 
> You can try a white sand "river" if you'd like (Carole- waterfaller1- somehow manages to maintain hers looking awesome) but personally I gave up on them a long time ago- mine always looked like crap in less than a week, between getting dirty and getting hopelessly mixed in with the other substrate LOL :icon_roll


OK, great advice - thanks very much. I presume if I ditch the gravel, I'd be starting over in terms of cycling the tank, right?

Now, a world of options, which of course leads to more questions. Came across this as a fascinating read, and am intrigued by going with your other notion of mineralized soil, bagging the commercial substrate altogether.


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## lauraleellbp

Read my edit at the bottom of my last post re: your cycling question; apparently we were both typing at the same time 

I'm about to set up my very first mineralized soil tank myself, so my personal experience is limited ATM- but I'm very excited about the prospects! :thumbsup:


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## hokuryu

lauraleellbp said:


> Read my edit at the bottom of my last post re: your cycling question; apparently we were both typing at the same time
> 
> I'm about to set up my very first mineralized soil tank myself, so my personal experience is limited ATM- but I'm very excited about the prospects! :thumbsup:


LOL - yep, crossed in the mail. 

Thanks again, Laural.


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## leafshapedheart

Hello.., My u.name is leafshapedheart, and I am new to this forum.

I have three tanks, 55 Gallon, 20 Gallon, and 10 Gallon Quarantine. All are planted to various extents. I have lots of exprience with terrestrial plants, but am fairly new to the aquatic. 

My plants are existing but not flourishing.:icon_redf I currently have regular smooth-river stones in my tanks and would like to change to sand. I keep Loaches in all my tanks, and they have delicate barbels and like to burrow. Another thought I had was that I might try to do one of those Dutch-Style aquariums. I would use big pieces of driftwood, and pile Flourite or other gravel up behind them to make planting beds for the plants. Then I would use the sand in the rest of the tank, mostly front-and-centre.

While looking out for my loaches, I would also like to look out for my plants. I would like to try one of these plant-friendly substrates, but I'm not sure which one. If possible, I would like to choose the sand with the largest particle. 

What experiences have you had with these products? Do the plants seem to prefer gravel or sand? Hopefully I'm posting in the right place and not hijacking someone's thread.

Thanks!
leafshapedheart
(maybe I shoulda put a hyphen in my name oops...)


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## smoq

chicken said:


> I wonder if some bags of colorquartz are dustier than others, because I barely rinsed mine at all. I put some in a bucket, rinsed it a couple times and that was it. There was a little clouding in the tank, but the filter cleared that up in no time.


 Thread ressurection I just wanted to say that I am in process of rinsing CQ and it's a hell of a job:icon_evil First couple of buckets were pitch black, now I am getting to the point, but still, it take a lot of time to clean this stuff. Anyway, I noticed thesame thing as other people- one bag was easier to rinse, but the second one has that oily residue from mineral oil and it is so hard to rinse it. And, you definetely want to buy gloves for that rinsing process, mine orange ones turned black very quickly


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## lauraleellbp

Bump for someone asking me about black substrates. :icon_wink


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## pandapr

lauraleellbp said:


> Bump for someone asking me about black substrates. :icon_wink


and that's me ! Thanks Laura for your time !


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## lauraleellbp

You're very welcome, hope it helped! :biggrin:


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## lauraleellbp

Bump for the same reason...


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## chad320

Thread ressurection again... so we have 3m, seachem and cirribsea that are actually black. This thread was started in '08 so im wordering if theres any others that we can add to the list of BLACK substrates. Im gettin ready to redo my 65g and am a firm beliver in the biodiversity theory. What else is a possibility for this in black only (no greyish or brownish or purpleish).


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## tuffgong

CaribSea Super Naturals Tahitian Moon



















I just mixed some of this with some Fluorite Black about 3-4" deep in my 30 gallon hex. Was fairly easy to rinse. Only took me about 30 minutes to do the entire 20lb bag. I paid 23.99 for it at a LFS. I have the tank planted with Blyxa, Cabomba, and Red Ludwigia. All were fairly easy to plant and I only some of the Blyxa floated up after it's initial planting. I also put about 12 root tabs throughout the substrate. The Blxya melted a little bit for two days, but has now bounced back completely a week later.


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## lauraleellbp

Would someone post a pic of their tank with the grey Turface in this thread?


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## fishyjoe24

I notice something that might help too, what about black silicia sand?


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## aman74

lauraleellbp said:


> If I had it to do over again I'd go with mineralized soil and CQ, though. I'm about to restart my 46gal with this mix.





lauraleellbp said:


> Hoppy, the CQ black sand is SUPER-fine, I don't think it would work to cap anything since it would migrate to the bottom. It's like sugar-sand if you've ever been to a beach that has that?


I'm a bit confused here, it sounded like you were going to use the CQ as a cap, but then were recommending against it. 

Only thing I can think of is that you don't consider the T grade sand?

I'm quite interested in this combo, so thought I'd ask even though it's an old thread.


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## lauraleellbp

ColorQuartz is no longer being manufactured, so you may have a hard time finding it.

But it used to come in 2 different grades- T grade (which was about 2-3 mm in size) and S grade (which was MAYBE a single millimeter). The S grade is the one that I don't think would work well as a cap, as it would migrate to the bottom when used with most other substrates; whichever substrate is finer in size will always end up at the bottom over time.


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## aman74

lauraleellbp said:


> ColorQuartz is no longer being manufactured, so you may have a hard time finding it.
> 
> But it used to come in 2 different grades- T grade (which was about 2-3 mm in size) and S grade (which was MAYBE a single millimeter). The S grade is the one that I don't think would work well as a cap, as it would migrate to the bottom when used with most other substrates; whichever substrate is finer in size will always end up at the bottom over time.


Thanks for the clarification, it was what I thought, that you were referencing the finer grade.

The 3M stuff is available as spectraquartz now.

Do you know if it has a high CEC?


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## lauraleellbp

It has 0 CEC- it's completely inert.


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## lauraleellbp

I just looked all over the 3M website for spectraquartz but couldn't find it- you have a link?


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## aman74

fishyjoe24 said:


> I notice something that might help too, what about black silicia sand?


You have something to help? Please share.

Do you have a good source for black silica?



lauraleellbp said:


> It has 0 CEC- it's completely inert.


It can be inert and still have a high CEC, just like Flourite and Black Diamond, etc...



lauraleellbp said:


> I just looked all over the 3M website for spectraquartz but couldn't find it- you have a link?


http://www.spectraquartz.com/


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## whosonfirst

Estes Uses a similar type of coating process as 3M did here is a link, Estes also does aquarium gravel and sand.

www.ceramaquartz.com
www.estesco.com


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## lauraleellbp

When I use the term "inert" I'm using it in terms of no bioavailable nutrients for plants. By that definition, Flourite is not inert nor are any of the other clay-based substrates, but gravel and sand (and I believe also Black Diamond) are. Black Diamond has a CEC?


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## newbieplanter

Is there a link to get colorquartz?






lauraleellbp said:


> From left to right, Fluorite black, Fluorite black sand, Colorquartz black T grade, AquaPebbles black gravel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In order from easiest to wash to most difficult:*
> 
> *AquaPebbles (30lbs)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fluorite black (31 lbs)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fluorite black sand (62 lbs)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colorquartz (50lbs)*


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