# Leaves turning translucent: is this a deficiency?



## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

I get the same thing, too. Don't know why but the only variables that I haven't tested are 1) potassium and 2) hardness. I'm guessing it's a K issue but won't know for a couple of weeks.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

I have seen something similar to this before twice though I am not sure if it is a nutrient issue or is related to something else in the tank. There was some thought that it might have been a micro deficiency, specifically a lack of zinc. Though it might also be a toxicity of some kind.

See this thread: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plant-deficiencies/89865-rotala-sp-woes.html

As far as nutrients go, if it was a nutrient deficiency we can rule out some nutrients. The damage appears on the new and older growth. 

*Nutrients that affect new growth:* Ca, Fe, B, Ni and Mn
*Nutrients that affect old growth:* N, P, K, and Mg.
*Nutrients that affect new and old growth:* Cu, Zn, S, and Mo.

Of these, I doubt it is Ca, Fe, or B and definitely not Ni. It is not N, P, K or Mg.

This leaves Mn, Cu, Zn, S and Mo as likely candidates. Though S seems unlikely because that shows up as general uniform yellowing not clear cells like that.
*
Can you take more photos of the leaves? Try get super clear pictures of them.

What are you adding for micros at the moment?*


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Thank you Zapins,
Here is a better picture for you:










Also, some of the Rotalas at the top have reduced size growth at their tips as you can see from these pictures (sorry, they are a little bit blurred):



















This last one has also some holes, despite that could be some drops of hydrogen peroxide I used for some algae on the last water change day... So, please, don't consider those holes since that's the only stem having them.


Finally, answering your question about micros, I dose Plantex CSM + B as EI dosing for a 75gl tank.

I will wait for your thoughts... Thanks!


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

I made an HD video which I am sure will help a big deal:






I will wait for your thoughts... Thanks!


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

How are you adding the CSM+B? By teaspoon or grams? How much exactly and how often are you adding it?


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

I use a DIY pre-mixed solution with a 500ml container. I have calculated the amount of Plantex to add to the 500ml bottle by using the rota.la calculator for my tank size (75gl) and the estimative index. I added about 217 gr of Plantex to 500ml of distiller water, and I dose 5ml every other day (alternated with macros.)

I dose as traditional EI: macros and micros on alternating days, starting on WC day (macros) and resting (no ferts) the day before WC (50-60%)

I must say though that my plants are not growing perfectly, some are ok, others are suffering, so maybe many nutrients build-up... I also have a little algae here and there, look at this video about my tank algae situation taken 1 week ago:

http://youtu.be/PJEhgMuSXqw

I am slowly trying to increase Co2 as much as I can, I have already reached a PH drop of 1.44 without noticing any appreciable improvement. I have a big wet/dry filter that degas a lot, so fish are still ok, but I want to try to maximize my Co2 to reach the max I can to rule that out and eventually try something else... This would be my plan.

Thoughts?


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## Jalopy (Aug 11, 2013)

I get this too on my rotala colorata and limnophila aromatica. The weird thing is this only happens to some stems. Others are doing great showing zero transparency.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm wondering if it's just physical damage since pressing on it can cause similar appearance.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Possibly, it does look like there might be some pleco damage on the alternantheria but I didn't get a good look in the video. Though the damage on the rotala and hygro doesn't look like pleco damage exactly since the cells are still intact on the leaves and not missing.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

And what about the Rotala stems at the surface not with little growth at the tips? That also started at the same time. Could that be related?


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Any more thoughts?


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Did you try adding more micros to rule out that possibility? 

Photos of the Alternanthera would be nice as well.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Do you mean the possibility of a micros deficiency? No, I have kept dosing at the suggested dose. Do you think that could be a micro deficiency of some sort?

Here is a picture of the Alternantheras, they have some algae on the leaves:










Alternanthera are the worst ones in my tank, and are struggling, no idea why.

I am eager to know your thoughts. Thanks!


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Zapins said:


> I have seen something similar to this before twice though I am not sure if it is a nutrient issue or is related to something else in the tank. There was some thought that it might have been a micro deficiency, specifically a lack of zinc. Though it might also be a toxicity of some kind.


As I mentioned above, the specific cause of this problem is not known. There was some discussion before that it might have been a lack of zinc or another micro nutrient. Though the answer to this was not 100% figured out and the cause is still unknown.

*How much of each fertilizer are you adding and how often?* You mentioned "Recommended levels," but many people recommend different levels and it is hard to infer how much you are actually adding from this. 

*What is the water temperature?*


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Looking at the pic, I suspect it's a micronutrient deficiency since there is algae growing on the leaves and it looks sickly.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Zapins said:


> As I mentioned above, the specific cause of this problem is not known. There was some discussion before that it might have been a lack of zinc or another micro nutrient. Though the answer to this was not 100% figured out and the cause is still unknown.
> 
> *How much of each fertilizer are you adding and how often?* You mentioned "Recommended levels," but many people recommend different levels and it is hard to infer how much you are actually adding from this.
> 
> *What is the water temperature?*


Zapins,
For the micro, here is what I wrote above:

Using rota.la calculator, I made a pre-mixed solution with a 500ml container. I have calculated the amount of Plantex to add to the 500ml bottle by using the rota.la calculator for my tank size (75gl) and the estimative index. I added about 217 gr of Plantex to 500ml of distiller water, and I dose 5ml every other day (alternated with macros.)

For macros, I also used rota.la to calculate the dry dosing for a 75gl tank.

Here are the values:

Kno3: 3.5 grams
Kh2po4: 528mg

Temperature in these days is around 80-81.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Looking at the pic, I suspect it's a micronutrient deficiency since there is algae growing on the leaves and it looks sickly.


Yes, some plants like Alternanthera look very sick! Why do you think is a micro deficiency and not something else?


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

fablau do you have a pleco in the tank?


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Yes, I have 4 bushy nose plecos. I know they may have damaged some of the leaves, but the overall health of some of my plants we are talking about here is due to something else... Their growth is stunted in some way, nothing to do with plecos. I am eager to know your thoughts.

Thanks!


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Is it possible to remove the plecos and keep them in another tank?

It would be helpful to figure out if the marks on the rotala leaves are pleco related or if they are nutrient related. With your dosing of CSM+B it seems unlikely that it is a micro deficiency.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Yes, I could remove the plecos, but it would be a pain and I am not sure if I want to do it right now.

I would discard the idea of having any sort of deficiency, I think that the problem here could be either imbalance or toxicity. What do you think?


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

There is no way to know without starting to eliminate potential problems (like the plecos). Once you whittle it down you eventually figure out what the issue it.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Do you really think that the pleco are affecting plants so much to mess up our diagnosis? I see issues with my plants that are hard to attribute to plecos, even because I used to have them even before I got that fish (stunted growth of Alternanthera and Ambulia begun long before I introduced plecos). 

Also, translucency of Rotala is most likely NOT related to plecos... Am I right?


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