# CO2 mist vs. Rex style reactor



## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

What are everyone's thoughts about mist or a reactor?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

I vote for mist


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

I agree! I have been seeing more results with mist! I know that you waste for CO2 but come on, it's not that much, right?

I have read more then once that plants take in CO2 more easily with mist vs. reactor. So... I just wanted everyone's input. :icon_smil


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

lol....looks like you already had your mind made up...but i like the clear dissolved CO2 look

looks like my fish float in the air as opposed to swimming thru a tank of sierra mist


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

So..... The folks voting for the reactor,.... Tell me/us your experiences and why you choose to go that way. I understand that you get the most out of your co2.... Besides that, why do you choose the reactor? Is that the only reason? Do you have better results?


I want to hear everyone's experiences.

I am happy with misting right now. The only "down side" is the "haze" in the water. It really doesn't bother me much though. 

Feed back everyone!


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

It's not that I have my mind made up, per say.... I want to hear everyones thoughts and experiences. Of course I could live without the "haze". I just want to hear everyone's thoughts about both angles.. I have found that the mist works better for me. I want to hear personnel experience from others.




MrMoneybags said:


> lol....looks like you already had your mind made up...but i like the clear dissolved CO2 look
> 
> looks like my fish float in the air as opposed to swimming thru a tank of sierra mist


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Neck and neck folks! Keep the votes coming! Share your opinion too!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

i have been misting for about the last year. i was okay with the fog for a while. just yesterday i hooked up my first reactor. i can't comment on differences of effectiveness yet but i sure can see into the tank easier now.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I use a cerjes reactor. It seems more efficient than rex style, but occasionally at high bubble rate I can get some misting...


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

whats a cerjes reactor?


and i chose the RG style for 4 reasons...1)it gets stuff out of the tank (no small powerhead) 2)its more efficient 3)no churning sound as the bubble goes thru the powerhead and 4)you have clear water

not to mention when my plants are pearling...I know that it is EXACTLY that...plants giving off O2

...which makes it cooler IMO and when I explain it to people that ogle my tank(s)


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## fooledyas (Feb 22, 2010)

MrMoneybags said:


> whats a cerjes reactor?
> 
> 
> and i chose the RG style for 4 reasons...1)it gets stuff out of the tank (no small powerhead) 2)its more efficient 3)no churning sound as the bubble goes thru the powerhead and 4)you have clear water
> ...


 Cerges 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/110100-cerges-reactor-diy-inline-co2-reactor.html


.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

I tried the Cerge Reactor for a couple of weeks but got tired of the gurgling sound. I went back to a powerhead with a split impeller. Yes the powerhead makes noise everytime a bubble hits the impeller so, I attached a Boyu diffuser to the input of the powerhead. The combo of Boyu diffuser and powerhead is kind of big but at least it's quiet so, I just hid it behind some stem plants.

I haven't changed my needle valve or regulator output settings and the 4 kdh drop checker is still yellow so I don't think the efficiency difference is that significant.

I angled the output of the water pump so the mist bounces off of the glass back into the input so the mist gets recycled throught the impeller several times. This seems to make the mist appearance less obvious.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

hmm. I don't really hear anything with mine.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

over_stocked said:


> hmm. I don't really hear anything with mine.


My reactors are all running off controllers with the bubble rate so high I can't count it. I have 'overloaded' one of the reactor chambers to where I could hear water gurgle when CO2 built up in the top.(but not often) Dialing back slightly on the bubble rate things go back silent.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

A few years ago, I used a Rex style reactor inline with a Rena XP2 filter. I used it for at least a year. I could hear gurgling later in the day but not quite as loud as the Cerge. I only stopped using the RG because sometimes, it made priming the filter difficult. Also, I wanted to keep CO2 injection separate from filtration. For me the Rex style was nicer than the Cerge. Of course there are quite alot of reasons why one would be better for a person, pump size, Reactor length, whether it's inside the stand etc...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

In you add the dual venturi, then you have the rapid dissolving of the mist+ not gurgling since the venturi purges larger bubble bubble build up and recirculates back into the reactor chamber.

Most reactors can be modified like this(Eg even AM 1000's etc)

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## abcemorse (Jul 24, 2008)

I kinda run both, with the degassing tube from the reactor fed into a powerhead intake, chops up the extra gas and circulates. Works well, good efficiency and minimal fine bubbles floating around...I like the clarity of the reactor set up.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

abcemorse said:


> I kinda run both, with the degassing tube from the reactor fed into a powerhead intake, chops up the extra gas and circulates. Works well, good efficiency and minimal fine bubbles floating around...I like the clarity of the reactor set up.


hmm....I think I will try it again with the degassing tube.

This sounds similar to what Tom was suggesting.


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

I use Rex Grigg and like it. Everything is hidden and no maintenance whatsoever. I barely hear any gurgling and the total dissolved co2 is very high.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

I wanted to do a Rex style But the parts have been a pain to find. I have been to lowes and home depot with no luck. I hear they reduce your flow rate allot also. So that makes me stand-offish...


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ I had to go to both the home depot and lowes to find all the parts. Any reputable irrigation supply company would have what you need. 


Edit. The flow reducing factor sucks though. I feel like my 29g needs a xp4 instead of its xp2.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

So do you think I should pick up an XP2 to run a reactor with? I have an XP3 on my 75g now. But if it will slow the flow rate that much, do you think an XP1 or XP2 could work okay?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Dempsey said:


> So do you think I should pick up an XP2 to run a reactor with? I have an XP3 on my 75g now. But if it will slow the flow rate that much, do you think an XP1 or XP2 could work okay?


My xp2 seems to be doing a great job running the reactor. I don't know if a xp1 would have enough flow to be able to desolve the amount of co2 you'd need for a 75g. Unless you need the added filtration an external pump might work better.

I also should note that even with my reactor hooked up, there's really still enough flow. I think I like current stronger than it needs to be. That's why I made the comment about needing the xp4.


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

I don't have experience with the xp's. I have an eheim and yes, flow is reduced but not much. What I do know is when the co2 comes out, very little is wasted outgassed. Then my 2 powerheads circulate the enriched co2 water around to the plants. I've had bubble ladders, diffusers, etc, and cleaning it is kind of a pain so the reactor is maintenance free. 

I bought all the pvc stuff at HD. I'm surprised you're having a hard time ....they should have it.

Best,


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I started up my CO2 for the first time today. My first reaction is that I don't much like the mist. I also don't like the idea of reduced flow. I don't mind the idea that reactors aren't as optimized for the plants, I'm not trying to win any awards I just want healthy plants.

So, what's the ultimate solution? Isn't there a cerces reactor that has a built in powerhead, from aquariumplants.com? Or, is the reduced flow overblown?

I already miss my crystal clear water, so I'm gonna start learning about different techniques of adding CO2 and find what's right for me.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

misting ftw.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> misting ftw.


 Indeed! Mist is King!


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Maybe I'm just not misty enough 
Orlando, thanks again for your help today!


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

Dave-H said:


> I started up my CO2 for the first time today. My first reaction is that I don't much like the mist. I also don't like the idea of reduced flow. I don't mind the idea that reactors aren't as optimized for the plants, I'm not trying to win any awards I just want healthy plants.
> 
> So, what's the ultimate solution? Isn't there a cerces reactor that has a built in powerhead, from aquariumplants.com? *Or, is the reduced flow overblown?*
> 
> I already miss my crystal clear water, so I'm gonna start learning about different techniques of adding CO2 and find what's right for me.


the reduced flow is overblown

there is some loss of head...but in the tubing/pipe sizes we run...its negligible

fact is...if you have a particularly long tank to begin with (foot print)...youre most likely using power heads in the tank to create good flow

if your filter puts out enough gph so that you have a good flow rate into the tank...the extra 20+" of 2"PVC pipe (90 degree turns and all) to the filter output causes minimal losses


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

I dont like 7 up, I vote Reactor.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Wait, so folks are saying there is no reduction in flow from using a 25-30" long x 2" diameter reactor with 2 90* elbows? Being that most folks use Filters that push 250-350 GPH at best I would think there would be some loss there. Different strokes for different folks, mist is king


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

So why doesn't the mist dissolve the CO2 into the water like the reactor does? Is it the mechanical action in the reactor in the reactor?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Its all about dwell time with mist. You can see where co2 is traveling throughout the tank and not with mist. With reactors you get 100 saturation, dialing bubble count is important as you dont want build up at lights off. 

Watching co2 bubbles fly around sticking to plants is a sight I enjoy, but its not for everybody. Good circulation and not a ton of surface agitation and you can achieve more than adequate co2 levels any time of the day. 

Try them both and see what works best for you


*If I could use a Mazzei loop on every tank I would. Complete snowy mist in every tank at 1-2 BPS  *


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Wow that looks pretty cool. It would probably slow down my Eheim 2236, though.


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

i would have to find a few textbooks...but i could try to find the loss of head with the 90degree elbows and typical 20" reactor

also...how does that "thing" work you posted orlando? like...direction of water flow and where is CO2 introduced etc? whats the ball valve do? or the compression fittings? looks serious business tho!!

**EDIT**

just looked it up and its a pretty cool design...my only question now is...how do you control the amount of CO2 introduced? all of the systems that I saw were for irrigation systems where you use the bypass to adjust pressure in the loop...therefore changing the pressure gradient in the loop and controlling how much of whatever is "sucked" into the mazzei inlet. its not very accurate...but with irrigation systems who cares? so how does your regulator/bubble counter cope with the negative pressure between it and the inlet? or is it just not large enough to force a response?

@DaveH

the reason that the reactor works so well is that (i remember I looked it up before, but dont have the source anymore) a typical bubble flows at a velocity of ~25-30 cm/s

and with a 2" pipe on the "normal" gph output of a filter...you would get pretty close to that velocity...say something like 22 cm/s (with bigger filters, you use a bigger pipe to keep it close to that)

so as the bubble comes in the center of the reactor...the bubble travels up as the water flows down (buoyancy)...the bubble is faster so it moves to the top of the reactor tube (very buoyant)...because the CO2 is dissolving, the bubble shrinks (less buoyancy) so that the velocity is the same as the water (net 0)...and then gradually slows down and moves down the reactor with the water (hardly any buoyancy left)...youre hoping that the bubble dissolves fast enough that the bubble all but completely dissolves by the time it reaches the bottom outlet

and then i remember that when you agitate the water...the CO2 dissolves exponentially faster but dont remember the source for that either (think pouring sugar into water and letting it sit...or stirring the water, which one dissolves the crystals faster)

so blowing mist bubbles vs a reactor is essentially the same principle...


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

MrMoneybags said:


> i would have to find a few textbooks...but i could try to find the loss of head with the 90degree elbows and typical 30" reactor
> 
> also...how does that "thing" work you posted orlando? like...direction of water flow and where is CO2 introduced etc? whats the ball valve do? or the compression fittings? looks serious business tho!!
> 
> ...


Ahhhhh.... thanks for that, now I get it. I wonder how much a Rex style reactor would slow down my Eheim 2236. It's already a little bit of a pokey filter but I have a powerhead to help it out. I really do like the idea of clear water.


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

it really cant be that much...i have an 2-Eheim 2232 that I run on a 20L and a 10g into 20" reactors

flow is GREAT...the difference is negligible Im sure **goes to storage trunk**


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Dave-H said:


> Wow that looks pretty cool. It would probably slow down my Eheim 2236, though.


 Its a Mazzei loop, but you need a good pump with some muscle to work this correctly. Co2 enters the black thing in the middle, there its reduced to a tiny bubble that is pushed through a tiny hole. This is where the ball valve comes into play. Water will choose the path of least resistance, so if I pinch flow off with the ballvalve, more water is pushed through the Mazzei.

This is where water pressure and co2 come together to form super mist.

These loops create the finest mist you can get. But, they get clogged with debris and need big pumps to work. More energy spent, more work.. Thats not for me these days. But one day I will have one again when Im old and only have one tank


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Off the topic, I just ordered some more ferts from you


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

Not to sound like a noob or anything, but what is this mist you are talking about? I have a glass diffusor located under my spraybar for the 2217 and it shows me where the microbubbles go throughout my tank and it has that "7up" type feel...is that what this "mist" is that you are talking about?


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

That's it!

It can be more intense depending on out you mist. IE: Powerhead


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Here's a question:

If the RG reactor is able to dissolve the CO2 completely by giving it enough time in the water (i.e. seconds that it spends trying to float up while the current goes down) then why not just put it on the intake of the filter?

That way, the filter motor doesn't have to work harder to push water through more curves/tube/etc, in fact, the siphoning effect that helps bring water to the canister would essentially power the reactor. 

My understanding is that you don't want CO2 coming into your intake because the tiny bubbles can form larger pockets of gas or otherwise disrupt the motor and ruin it. Is this the correct understanding of why you don't just put CO2 on the intake? If that's the case, then if the CO2 is 100% dissolved before it reaches the filter then it should be no problem.

Is this correct, at least theoretically?

thanks! Dave


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

This could be a separate topic for discussion but how about people posting what types of algae they're currently battling while using their favorite CO2 injection method. As we all know it, CO2 is the hardest piece of the pie to nail down for most people. Insufficient CO2 ties into most algae woes that people encounter. IMO misting def takes alot of guess work out of the equation. Most people use bubble counters on their reactors to nail down the "correct bps" just so they don't poison their fish... when misting you rarely have to worry about fish gasping. You can go 10bps all day and fish are as happy as can be. 

I've tried ceramic disc, filter inlets, DIY's, and of course misting. From my experience misting is what plants love best and also kills a hellava lot less fish. Who cares about the 7up look anyway when your plants are happy, they're happy. You can always unplug the solenoid during picture taking time if you don't like 7up .


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> This could be a separate topic for discussion but how about people posting what types of algae they're currently battling while using their favorite CO2 injection method. As we all know it, CO2 is the hardest piece of the pie to nail down for most people. Insufficient CO2 ties into most algae woes that people encounter. IMO misting def takes alot of guess work out of the equation. Most people use bubble counters on their reactors to nail down the "correct bps" just so they don't poison their fish... when misting you rarely have to worry about fish gasping. You can go 10bps all day and fish are as happy as can be.
> 
> I've tried ceramic disc, filter inlets, DIY's, and of course misting. From my experience misting is what plants love best and also kills a hellava lot less fish. Who cares about the 7up look anyway when your plants are happy, they're happy. You can always unplug the solenoid during picture taking time if you don't like 7up .



Well put..


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I was just reading about how the lowered ph can also reduce biological activity in the filter, but again no detailed discussion of the extent to which that is true. So, that is another possible reason not to put the CO2 on the intake. 

If the Co2 could be on the intake, it seems like it would solve the flow problems so I'm trying to learn exactly how this works.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

I've used both mist and a reactor and currently I'm diffusing CO2 through one of my canister filters. IME, I had the best growth, least algae and clearest water when I was misting through a needle wheel pump. Misting produces the best results, hands down, in my opinion, but after a while I get tired of the look and go back to a reactor. Then as I remember how much better I thought my tank was doing with mist I go back to that and the cycle keeps repeating, lol.

I wonder if anyone has tried modding the impeller on a Koralia for use in misting. I have a nano sitting in my closet......


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

Dave-H said:


> I was just reading about how the lowered ph can also reduce biological activity in the filter, but again no detailed discussion of the extent to which that is true. So, that is another possible reason not to put the CO2 on the intake.
> 
> If the Co2 could be on the intake, it seems like it would solve the flow problems so I'm trying to learn exactly how this works.


CO2 in the intake can cause your filter to lose its prime which can burn out your motor if you're not around to catch it.

I've used the mist before...it works good...but I can see some of the fine mist hit the surface and pop into the air...lost co2. Also, over time it get dirty and you have to clean it and its another piece of equipment in your tank (unless you like the look of it).

The rex works good. Flow is minimally reduced IMO. I can hear co2 get pumped into the reactor and shaken, mixed and stirred. Then I'd look at my return flow and see very little bubbles come out and it they do they are so small (mist size) that I know the saturation is close to 100%.

Done both, went with the reactor.


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

theres a few reasons you dont put the CO2 on the inlet side of the filter

the pump can move water faster than gravity can accelerate it, so...the siphon effect used to fill a reactor isnt as fast as the pumps speed of moving the water out

pumps are designed to push water...if you use them to pull water...you create this amazing phenomenon known as cavitation due to the negative pressure zone
which will eat away at your pump's impeller slowly but surely (theres a deep long drawn out scientific explanation to this...but i dont really remember it all and dont want to look it up...) essentially...the pump feeds energy into the water and creates a small shock wave...the shockwave makes microscopic bubbles that take out little pieces of impeller everytime they hit

also...if you dont have a large enough reactor...youll feed your filter small air bubbles again...which will build up and make gas pockets in the filter...shortening impeller lifespan as well

youre just all around better off putting it on the output side



also...looking into the head loss of the different fittings involved in a reactor i was AMAZED
a 30" reactor has the same amount of head loss of about 10' of 1/2" tubing used on my eheim filter - i didnt even bother to look at friction losses and such...tho I still think they are negligible for the small scale pumps/flow rates we use
*********************************
on an OT note...Im amazed to see the polling results...I thought most people would agree on the RG style... efficiency is king!

I had a cheap ebay ceramic diffuser first (crap)...then a ladder (double crap)...then an in-tank reactor (good) ...then a boyu diffuser which had GREAT results...

now I use the boyu to feed CO2 into my RG reactor and its my absolute favorite!


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Ahh.. gotcha..
you know, I am starting to realize how much the length of the tubing and the number of turns makes a difference. I think I'm going to shorten the tubes to make them straighter.

I am seriously considering trying a RG reactor, just to see how it would go. I would love to see a clear one so I can check out the action inside. I'm not in the mood for a DIY at the moment, though.


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

i dont consider a RG reactor a "true" DIY project as it can be done in about 10mins or less
then ready by the next morning (when the solvent dries)

also...if you want one thats clear...the price practically doubles (which is crap btw...why is clear pvc so expensive?) ~$30 instead of $16 or so...not to mention its not carried readily in the big box stores (lowes or HD) and has to be ordered


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

10 minutes? maybe I'll just DIY after all! 

I've never worked with PVC but I'm starting to realize it's pretty easy 

I think I'd be willing to pay extra for it to be clear, especially so that I could see that it's clean and functional inside.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> Indeed! Mist is King!


Orlando, are you still using Danner fractionating pumps?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Jeff5614 said:


> Orlando, are you still using Danner fractionating pumps?


 Yes indeed. I have needle wheel pumps with Emkemat (sp) impellers. I even have one with an inline diffuser hooked up before the inlet of the pump, mist is unbelievable, but as you and I both know, snow blizzard affect is not for everyone. But the plants love it!


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

@DaveH

lol...you sure you wanna do that??

itll be clear for the first week....and then the bioslime comes <_<
think about how your filter pipes look...also...you can tell by sound if it is functional

if you can hear it - its not working right:hihi:
...or you bubble rate is too high

basically...theres no "real" purpose for it to be clear unless you dont have a bubble counter...and even then the argument is pretty weak

save the $15 and get some extra ferts/fish/equip...


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Hmm.. yea I think your right..
Ok, I'm gonna hang on with the diffuser for a bit and see how it goes, but I'm thinking a RG reactor could be good for me!


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

I've used both and prefer the Reactor, and I still have a bit of a mist. I think this is due to making my reactor about 12-14 inches in length. Also I personally like to minimize the amount of equipment within my tank.


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## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

I recently switched over from the mist to the RG reactor with DIY co2. I was tired of the noise and the bubbles from the internal filter I was using. I wasn't experiencing much growth at all with the mist, everything seemed to be surviving and not thriving.

I've had the RG reactor up and running for 4 days now. My drop checker is a brighter green now and in just a couple of days my plants really took off. 

My tank being silent again, my water being crystal clear and my plants taking off has made me love the reactor.


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

Chafire said:


> I've used both and prefer the Reactor, and I still have a bit of a mist. I think this is due to making my reactor about 12-14 inches in length. Also I personally like to minimize the amount of equipment within my tank.


Yep, longer the reactor, the more resistance and mix the co2 get, which gives you great co2 saturation. 

Mine is about 30 inches. I think that's perfect with the eheim but make it any legth you think is best.

Also, I know there are different types of co2 tubing out there but I found the co2 tubing rex grigg supplies are awesome. its rigid, thick, and resistance to co2 corrosion. It also will slide into the hole you drill into the reactor and seal nicely!


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Great info everyone! I am still at a cross road...... I guess most of us are though.... lol


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Another question about the RG reactor:

I looked at the parts list and it sure seems simple enough! I might have go to for it just to see what it's like. But, drilling a hole and just sticking the CO2 tube in it seems like a weak point in the design.

Has anyone attached a hosebarb to the end for the CO2 connector? Some sort of like this but hopefully made of nylon and the right size, etc/ ?


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

Dave-H said:


> Another question about the RG reactor:
> 
> I looked at the parts list and it sure seems simple enough! I might have go to for it just to see what it's like. But, drilling a hole and just sticking the CO2 tube in it seems like a weak point in the design.
> 
> Has anyone attached a hosebarb to the end for the CO2 connector? Some sort of like this but hopefully made of nylon and the right size, etc/ ?


I first thought that the tubing was a weak link in the system but the rex grigg tubing is stout and thick. You want to make sure you're drilling the right size hole rex recommends, then clip the tubing a steep angle and shove into hole and pull with pliers hard. It will seal nicely.

You can go the hose barb way too. That might be the better way if I had to do it all over. So far, the reactor has not leaked from the tubing into the reactor area.

Best,


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't have Rex's tubing so I'm not sure if it's any different from mine. A barb seems like a better way to go, though..


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

More votes! I am kinda shocked with the results so far.... Well, maybe not... Forget the 7up look. What do you think is better for the plants?


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm interested in that, too. But also I want to know the degree to which one is better. If the mist is a bit better for the plants but the plants can still go great without it I'd go for the reactor just for the clear water. 

What is interesting to me is that my diffuser produces tiny bubbles slowly circulating through the tank. I have tried to follow a single bubble with my eyes and they seem to just float on and on. Why do bubbles dissolve inside of a reactor in a few seconds while a bubble in the tank can go much longer? is it the turbulence?

Interesting topic! I am looking forward to trying a reactor!


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

Dave-H said:


> I'm interested in that, too. But also I want to know the degree to which one is better. If the mist is a bit better for the plants but the plants can still go great without it I'd go for the reactor just for the clear water.
> 
> What is interesting to me is that my diffuser produces tiny bubbles slowly circulating through the tank. I have tried to follow a single bubble with my eyes and they seem to just float on and on. Why do bubbles dissolve inside of a reactor in a few seconds while a bubble in the tank can go much longer? is it the turbulence?
> 
> Interesting topic! I am looking forward to trying a reactor!


Force, agitation, and bubbles float up while current is pulling it down inside the reactor...pure and simple. 

The mist is dissolving but slower than the reactor and if you're watching that bubble hit the surface....lost co2. If your misting, I'd recommend a powerhead to mix them around inside the tank.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I have a powerhead and there's quite a it of circulation throughout the tank. So much so that I can see tiny floating bubbles in all corners of the tank - and they just cruise around endlessly. Hence my question!


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

I personally prefer misting and found better results with it than reactors. I don’t mind the 7up look but the only thing i don’t like is that i cannot keep the diffuser close to the side in order to have the bubbles to come up in front of the filter or powerhead outlet

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

I use the same bubble rate of CO2 with a powerhead and Boyu diffuser on the intake that I used with a Cerge Reactor. The 4 kdh drop checkers are the same yellow green color. For me, the trade off was the mist look vs. the gurgling sound. I went back to the mist, the noise was driving me crazy. I suppose my bubble rate was to high for the Cerge. I might try a PVC reactor again. This time 24" and a venturi to minimize the gurgling sound. I don't think you will find a dramatic difference in CO2 usage between either method. It's been mentioned that plants really only use about 5% of the CO2 you pump in either way.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

The mist isn't "really" a problem for me. I would like to have clear water for when folks come over and see my tanks. For myself also..... Yes, I could always turn the co2 off when folks come over.... Thens it's "hello BBA!"....


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Reactor is winning so far...


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I have mist going but I'm planning on building a RG style reactor this weekend. So soon I'll be able to comment on both!


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Allrighty, my new reactor is setup and running. 

This is an Eheim 2236 with a boyu/waterplant diffuser inline on the output followed by a rex Griggs reactor. So far I'm not so happy - just as much mist coming out of the filter as before! 

But, perhaps I need to tweak the placement, hoses, or something else. To the naked eye, not much of the CO2 seems to be diffusing


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Isn't having the boyu/waterplant diffuser running with the reactor kind of defeating the purpose of the reactor?


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

To me it seems like a good way to get the CO2 into the water, because it will produce small bubbles that would be easier to dissolve. At the very least, it shouldn't hurt anything I don't think. 

What makes you think it would defeat the purpose of the reactor? I am just learning about these things.


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

most people use a reactor so that there is complete diffusion of co2. meaning no bubbles.

i have always been a reactor kinda guy. just as an experiment i set up one of my diffusors on the other side of my tank the other day so i have more co2 distribution. so i'm runnin both right now.


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## TheBohunk (Apr 11, 2004)

Dempsey said:


> So..... The folks voting for the reactor,.... Tell me/us your experiences and why you choose to go that way. I understand that you get the most out of your co2.... Besides that, why do you choose the reactor? Is that the only reason? Do you have better results?


 
I've always had better efficiency using a reactor, so that's a big one for me. I also like the fact that I can use an external filter to power it so it doesn't add any extra hardware on display in the tank.

I also like that I can make them made-to-fit for about 8 bucks and even on a large tank, I may not need multiple reactors like I'd potentially need multiple discs. 

In smaller tanks (20 gallons or less) I can see the increased appeal of discs, but anything larger, no thanks.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

When you are pumping tiny bubbles into the reactor, they are so small that they just flow right out. When you have the co2 tube going directly into the side if the reactor with "normal" sized bubbles being pumped into the reactor, they want to travel up. Harder for them to just flow out of the reactor and more time in it for 100% dissolving. 



Dave-H said:


> To me it seems like a good way to get the CO2 into the water, because it will produce small bubbles that would be easier to dissolve. At the very least, it shouldn't hurt anything I don't think.
> 
> What makes you think it would defeat the purpose of the reactor? I am just learning about these things.


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/21340-co2-revelations.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...iscussion/21609-co2-revelations-part-2-a.html


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## TheBohunk (Apr 11, 2004)

As I said, I use a reactor. I would be hard-pressed to witness pearling that is noticably more "intense" than what I see in my tanks every day.

Barr's observation may be accurate if you are getting the majority of your mist out into the tank, circulating and not straight up and out where it's essentially wasted, but I'm still skeptical I could have it any better.

My plants start getting "gassy" about 45 minutes after lights-on in my "high viscosity" CO2-laden water. I really don't feel the need to change anything. :biggrin:


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

This is why I ask the questions! I like hearing the experiences. Do you have high highting?




TheBohunk said:


> As I said, I use a reactor. I would be hard-pressed to witness pearling that is noticably more "intense" than what I see in my tanks every day.
> 
> Barr's observation may be accurate if you are getting the majority of your mist out into the tank, circulating and not straight up and out where it's essentially wasted, but I'm still skeptical I could have it any better.
> 
> My plants start getting "gassy" about 45 minutes after lights-on in my "high viscosity" CO2-laden water. I really don't feel the need to change anything. :biggrin:


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## MrMoneybags (Apr 13, 2010)

ive used both...had a boyu inline and moved to a reactor

I remember going from pearling after like 3hrs with the Boyu inline to pearling in 10mins with the RG reactor (but I leave CO2 on 24/7)

pearlings overrated tho IMO...if you have a tank of glosso...youll get AMAZING pearling (even HC pearls furiously)
you have hairgrass and youll be lucky to see a bubble stuck to the tip of it...
java moss and riccia pearl pretty nicely...all in all...I think pearling is cool...but I dont use it to judge the health of my tank


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Love the input, but pearling isn't the reason for this thread. Plant health, growth, fish health, algae, ect... Pearling is alway a plus IMO, though... Pros and cons of both options. :icon_smil



MrMoneybags said:


> ive used both...had a boyu inline and moved to a reactor
> 
> I remember going from pearling after like 3hrs with the Boyu inline to pearling in 10mins with the RG reactor (but I leave CO2 on 24/7)
> 
> ...


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## TheBohunk (Apr 11, 2004)

Dempsey said:


> This is why I ask the questions! I like hearing the experiences. Do you have high highting?


4x54W T5 over a standard 75 gallon.

Pearling may not be a scientific threshold or anything, but it's sure a good indicator that your plants are using a whole lot of CO2.


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## jerry1 (Oct 13, 2010)

MrMoneybags said:


> the reduced flow is overblown
> 
> there is some loss of head...but in the tubing/pipe sizes we run...its negligible
> 
> ...


Yep. I tested flow rate before and after adding my RG reactor. The difference was a fe gph. Very minimal, which is what I expected. There is no reason it should have a big impact.

I didn't vote because I have no comparison history.


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## Hookahh (Aug 24, 2010)

Mist works great, but just hate bubbles floating all over the tank, i want a clear view with nothing but fish!


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

why pick one over the other? use tom barr's dual venturi external co2 reactor and you'll get mist and dissolved co2.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I am currently running that boyu diffuser, but tonight I'm installing my (updated) reactor. I tried it a few days ago but I was still getting mist so I reworked the design. Hopefully tonight I'll have clear water and a green drop checker!

For me, I just want clear water. My aquarium is more than just plants or fish, it's a decorative part of my living room. Crystal clear water just looks great, and from what I gather the reactors and almost as good as the mist. 

I am not looking to win awards with my planted tank, I just want it to be beautiful with healthy plants. So, if the dissolved CO2 is not quite as good for the plants as the mist but it can still produce great results, I'll go with the cosmetic appearance of the clear water.


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## Green024 (Sep 19, 2009)

Maybe my issue is with my Eheim 2215, but the RG reactor slowed my flow down a lot, made bubbling noises, and did not get my co2 levels high enough. I went on to trying the boyu diffuser in line. For me, it worked better than the RG reactor, but still not so great. I saw a lot of bubbles that came out fairly large and would go right to the surface of my tank and pop.

I now am using a normal glass diffuser. I can now turn my bubble rate way down, and get much better results than the previous two attempts. This method is going to save me money and time (to refill on co2,) in the long run.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Better results from a glass diffuser? Hmmm... All tanks are different, I guess. I tried doing the glass but I felt it was more of a waste on my 75g and never got ideal co2 levels....



Green024 said:


> Maybe my issue is with my Eheim 2215, but the RG reactor slowed my flow down a lot, made bubbling noises, and did not get my co2 levels high enough. I went on to trying the boyu diffuser in line. For me, it worked better than the RG reactor, but still not so great. I saw a lot of bubbles that came out fairly large and would go right to the surface of my tank and pop.
> 
> I now am using a normal glass diffuser. I can now turn my bubble rate way down, and get much better results than the previous two attempts. This method is going to save me money and time (to refill on co2,) in the long run.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

I'm with you. My 75 is in my living room. The mist doesn't "kill" me but it seems to working awesome for me now. I really want to try the reactor. It's the whole loss of flow issue, and so on.... I wouldn't mind clear water though. The one thing my wife hates is the sounds of the co2 getting chopped up in the power head. I don't even notice it! Well, kinda.... But that's not an issue for me.



Dave-H said:


> For me, I just want clear water. My aquarium is more than just plants or fish, it's a decorative part of my living room. Crystal clear water just looks great, and from what I gather the reactors and almost as good as the mist.
> 
> .


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Something to look into.....





milesm said:


> why pick one over the other? use tom barr's dual venturi external co2 reactor and you'll get mist and dissolved co2.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

Why would misting be better than a glass defuser? My powerhead blows the defused bubbles through the tank. Wouldn't this be the same?


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Using a powerhead to blow the bubbles around from the defuser would be misting. He didn't mention using a powerhead to suck the bubbles up and blowing them around.



antbug said:


> Why would misting be better than a glass defuser? My powerhead blows the defused bubbles through the tank. Wouldn't this be the same?


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Just for the record, my 2 inch wide x 15 inch long Rex Griggs reactor seems to have made no noticeable difference in flow. I judged this informally by watching the plants sway in the part of the tank that has the least flow. Also, I can see the flow quite well because of the tiny bubbles everywhere (since my DIY reactor ain't working so good)


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

Dempsey said:


> Using a powerhead to blow the bubbles around from the defuser would be misting. He didn't mention using a powerhead to suck the bubbles up and blowing them around.


 
Thanks for the clearafaction.


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## Green024 (Sep 19, 2009)

Dempsey said:


> Better results from a glass diffuser? Hmmm... All tanks are different, I guess. I tried doing the glass but I felt it was more of a waste on my 75g and never got ideal co2 levels....


Good water circulation is key with large tanks and one source of co2. Maybe your 75 woulda been better off using 2 glass diffusers on opposite ends of the tank :icon_bigg 
I'll find this out when I am ready to plant my 125g...



Dempsey said:


> Using a powerhead to blow the bubbles around from the defuser would be misting.


So thats what you meant by misting.... than That is the method I am using with my glass diffuser within my 45g.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

That is just one way of misting. I actually have my co2 tube pumping directly into my powerhead. That's the most common way to mist...


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

i have used both, but mist seems to give better results and my plants were growing like a weed with the mist style co2. the reactor does work very well too but IMO its not better than the mist, i think the co2 does not get to all the plants and for some reason mist looks cool and plant pearls as well.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

25 votes for mist and 42 votes for a reactor.... That's where we are so far.


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## b planted (Nov 4, 2010)

Maybe i can confuse things? What about a ladder diffuser? You get the Co2 in the tank, no mist (7up) and no waste. I have mine under my spray bar, if any bubbles leave the top of the ladder (which is almost non) my spary bar pushes it. Also can hide it with some plants. Just a thought.


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## ExReefer (Jan 27, 2009)

I definitely think the PVC reactor slows down flow. I get pearling on my plants, but I still have to crank my CO2 in order to get the pearling. I have a simple glass diffuser and I’m starting to think I may give it try.


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## R33 GTR (Mar 13, 2009)

Diy co2 with power head to a 20L and the plants go crazy pearling


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## barbarossa4122 (Jan 16, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> I use a cerjes reactor. It seems more efficient than rex style, but occasionally at high bubble rate I can get some misting...


Hi Justin,

Do you have any pics of a cerjes reactor ? Do you connect this to the canister tubing if yes, ti's not for me.


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## Bandit1200 (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm using a Cerges style reactor. Part of the reason was to avoid the mist, but mostly it was because I already had the entire setup already installed from a previous DIY experiment. I was using the filter in-line with my canister return to "polish" the water. It works great, for about 2 days then the filter needs to be replaced. After about a week I got tired of replacing the filters in it so stopped putting them in. This left the system open but still inline. The only thing I did to convert it to a reactor was add the down-tube and drill a hole for the co2 line. As far as the reduction in flow, it's hard to say seeing as I have a Fluval 305 hooked up to a 29g tank. It's never been set to max flow anyway. I turned it on and adjusted it to about what looked like it was before, which is still far from max flow.


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