# Bubble Counter w/ Built in Check Valve



## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

I personally run a safety loop and let gravity resolve my issue here, very simple. Never had a problem. Just like with electrical cords, if you follow the best practices in terms of general aquarum safety loops, you will be fine. That counter & check valve in one with the double metal heads is the same one I have been using for my tanks for the last year with zero issues. 

Not to get off topic, but those Fluval in the tank bubble counters are poorly made and not a “set it and forget it type of solution” otherwise. 


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## changaroo (Aug 16, 2017)

DigityDog70 said:


> I personally run a safety loop and let gravity resolve my issue here, very simple. Never had a problem. Just like with electrical cords, if you follow the best practices in terms of general aquarum safety loops, you will be fine. That counter & check valve in one with the double metal heads is the same one I have been using for my tanks for the last year with zero issues.
> 
> Not to get off topic, but those Fluval in the tank bubble counters are poorly made and not a “set it and forget it type of solution” otherwise.
> 
> ...


Could you elaborate on safety loop for an air line? I understand how they work for electrical cords.

I guess my main concern is causing damage to the solenoid if the check valve in the bubble counter fails.








is this the bubble counter you were referring to?


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

The solenoid and regulator are above the bubble counter and check valve, water isn't going to flow upward. Like I was saying, let gravity do the work. I run Co2 tubing down below the solenoid and then I attached my bubble checker and check valve. There are no power cables though as shown in the picture, but I had pulled it out when I took the picture. I'm on a lunch break and don't have time to make a diagram. Yes, those Fluval bubble counters that you attached have been banned in my fish room. 

DD


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## Hyue (Oct 11, 2017)

DigityDog70 said:


> The solenoid and regulator are above the bubble counter and check valve, water isn't going to flow upward. Like I was saying, let gravity do the work. I run Co2 tubing down below the solenoid and then I attached my bubble checker and check valve. There are no power cables though as shown in the picture, but I had pulled it out when I took the picture. I'm on a lunch break and don't have time to make a diagram. Yes, those Fluval bubble counters that you attached have been banned in my fish room.
> 
> DD


In his setup and picture, the water in the bubble counter is above the level of the solenoid and regulator. A loop would not help if the check valve in his bubble counter failed. 

I'm building a regulator rig as well and will probably do an inline check valve. Everyone says they'll fail at some point and I'd rather not take the risk. Perhaps someone with more experience can reassure the OP and me.


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

Hyue said:


> In his setup and picture, the water in the bubble counter is above the level of the solenoid and regulator. A loop would not help if the check valve in his bubble counter failed.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm building a regulator rig as well and will probably do an inline check valve. Everyone says they'll fail at some point and I'd rather not take the risk. Perhaps someone with more experience can reassure the OP and me.



Check valve + gravity = answer. 2nd check valve + = more security. Also and I mean this as a suggestion to help, the search feature in this forum is extremely helpful. If you “really” want to know research it more by searching, this is a fundamental concept and there’s a plethora of info. already posted.


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## changaroo (Aug 16, 2017)

Completely understood. I did a search before making this post.

Just never saw anything with regards to an additional check valve under the bubble counter when its attached directly to the regulator setup / needle valve.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

My aquarium is upstairs and my CO2 setup is in the basement, so I have a big concern about check-valve failure. I have three in place. One is a foot from the surface of the water (behind the tank), another is after the bubble counter (in the basement) and the last is just before the needle valve. I also have a big loop in the basement which would, hopefully, contain enough to allow me time to notice it, assuming a slow leak.

The type of check valve is important. Get one with a low crack pressure which will allow the CO2 to flow freely. I have two good quality valves made of Kynar. They are relatively cheap, have a Viton diaphragm and have a cracking pressure of .5 psi. You can get them at usplastic.com. Put "Kynar Standard Check Valve with Viton Diaphragm" into their search bar. Those two are the first in my three-series placements.

Above the needle valve is a high quality, and more expensive, Dennerle CO2 Check Valve.

I replace the Kynar valves annually. The Dennerle last for years.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

changaroo said:


> Could you elaborate on safety loop for an air line? I understand how they work for electrical cords.
> 
> I guess my main concern is causing damage to the solenoid if the check valve in the bubble counter fails.
> 
> ...


OP, I used the same style of bubble counter with built in check valve as you and after replacing them a couple of times I decided to go with an inline BC. I've been using a Fluval bubble counter for years with no problems. I wasn't aware that it was made for "in tank" use, as mentioned by another poster. If that's how it's being used perhaps that's an issue. Mine is inline, out of the tank, and works perfectly. It doesn't include a check valve although I have seen similar BC's that do.


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## benstatic (Oct 15, 2017)

heh, never installed a bubble counter - but its good to worry about your solenoid.
I just run a line out of the solenoid to the check valve to the tank.
I am about to change my set up though and run the line from the solenoid to a reactor - but I will definitely keep my check valve between the air and the water.


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

That bubble counter will fail 90%, if you have opened it you will see how poorly its designed. 


Also make sure you replace the check valves every year or so, they fail too.



Running loop for a back pressure!! Good luck on that...lol


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

What is wrong with that Fluval bubble counter?


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Watercrayfish said:


> That bubble counter will fail 90%, if you have opened it you will see how poorly its designed.
> 
> 
> Also make sure you replace the check valves every year or so, they fail too.
> ...


Hasn't failed yet for me and it has been going for a few years. Is this personal experience or conjecture on your part?


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

Jeff5614 said:


> Hasn't failed yet for me and it has been going for a few years. Is this personal experience or conjecture on your part?


Personal experience...I have two of the inline type bubble counter(which can attach tube on both ends), so its visible the liquid finding its way pass the inbuilt in check valves. I had to insert another check valve between the bubble counter and needle valve.,

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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Just so everyone is on the same page, this bubble counter










is just that - a bubble counter. It doesnt have a check valve and isnt meant to function as one.

As a bubble counter they work great. I use them on all my tanks


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Watercrayfish said:


> Personal experience...I have two of the inline type bubble counter(which can attach tube on both ends), so its visible the liquid finding its way pass the inbuilt in check valves. I had to insert another check valve between the bubble counter and needle valve.,
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


No check valves in the Fluval bubble counter.


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

Jeff5614 said:


> No check valves in the Fluval bubble counter.


I am referring to OP's picture.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Watercrayfish said:


> That bubble counter will fail 90%, if you have opened it you will see how poorly its designed.


It's definitely a cheapy, but mine has been running flawlessly for about a year.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Watercrayfish said:


> I am referring to OP's picture.


Gotcha.


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

Hyue said:


> Perhaps someone with more experience can reassure the OP and me.


I see you've made two posts (hope OP didn't create this account out of impatience, but I digress). Yes, the solenoid and regulator sits behind the tank up on a shelf with a safety loop above the water inline and it currently has a cheapy (2nd check valve that I use mainly for my airlines), the type you purchase in a pack of 10 or something for $5.

Bump:


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

With regard to the Fluval Bubble counters, I prefer the inline approach with a valve checker as well as a second inline valve check, you could use just about any one I have in the picture I took below (and I do use all of the below still with the exception of the (Fluval Bubble checker)and here's why. 

The Fluval Bubble counters are just one more non-integral piece of equipment in the tank (debris) and most of my tanks are less than 40Gal. I really don't prefer the dual lines in and out of the tank (sure it's not a lot of work, but again, a preference). I am not sure that you could tell if the fit was snug or had become lose after a while and was leaking water inside the tank? Never tried to test it but the thought did occur to me. My first one started to leak after about three months. I figured $3, you get what you pay for, not to sound cliche. 

Moving on from the Fluval, I also prefer a different approach and prefer "in-line" co2 bubble counters/check valves, regardless if your solenoid is very expensive or middle or the road or low end. I like to be able to determine my BPS just like everyone else and I like to have some insurance in the event that one valve checker should fail, so keeping the equipment 'down' the line is my approach (away from the regulator and solenoid) and I'm pretty certain that people make messes with the bubble counters and check valves frequently being right next to the regulator and solenoid.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Biggest problem Ive had with cheap plastic check valves is not failing, but that they leak. Ive had every one in that picture and a few other types. They all leak eventually if not right away. Probably because they're designed for air pump pressure not co2.

Ive had the best success with these check valves - https://www.amazon.com/ISTA-Spring-aquarium-Diffuser-counter/dp/B00SE9VU0I

The stainless steel versions are crap. Im talking about the Ista brand. Ive never tried the $20 "good" kind

That's what I like about the Fluval bc, it's not prone to leak ime


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## ice9 (Aug 15, 2016)

just my $0.02 - I use the Fluval bubble counter as well - I put 2 Clippard brass check valves (I think they were about $14 each), one between the needle valve and counter, and one between the counter and the reactor. 

I kind of assume the bubble counter will fail at some point, so used an easily replaceable part.

On a side note - anyone know where to get JUST the all-plastic CO2 connector piece with a standard NPT thread, as on the check valve in previous comment? Most compression fittings I can find are brass, and I am looking for one to connect to the reactor.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

DigityDog70 said:


> With regard to the Fluval Bubble counters, I prefer the inline approach with a valve checker as well as a second inline valve check, you could use just about any one I have in the picture I took below (and I do use all of the below still with the exception of the (Fluval Bubble checker)and here's why.
> 
> The Fluval Bubble counters are just one more non-integral piece of equipment in the tank (debris) and most of my tanks are less than 40Gal...


Fluval bubble counters aren't made to be put in the tank. They're inline outside of the tank. Why do you think they go in the tank?


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

burr740 said:


> Biggest problem Ive had with cheap plastic check valves is not failing, but that they leak. Ive had every one in that picture and a few other types. They all leak eventually if not right away. Probably because they're designed for air pump pressure not co2.
> 
> Ive had the best success with these check valves - https://www.amazon.com/ISTA-Spring-aquarium-Diffuser-counter/dp/B00SE9VU0I
> 
> ...




Thanks, I picked up one of the ISTA check valves and am adding the data to my tank journal, we’ll see how long it lasts once I get it installed. I tend to agree in that I have never had one fail either, but that may be due to me only running Co2, 12 hours a day as well as proactively changing the check valves once every 4 months (likely an occupational hazard ?). BTW, speaking of ISTA I have had great results using the ISTA MIXMAX med. sized Co2 reactor~diffuser hooked up to a 210gph pump. 




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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

Jeff5614 said:


> Fluval bubble counters aren't made to be put in the tank. They're inline outside of the tank. Why do you think they go in the tank?




They can actually be used inside or outside. I personally would not recommend them on the outside but since I don’t use them I digress. 


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## changaroo (Aug 16, 2017)

Just to follow up for anyone that searches for this in the future. I put a stainless check valve underneath my bubble counter and left the bubble counter where it was. 










Thank you all for the input.


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