# Hair algae



## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

bunches of amano shrimp.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

do otos eat it?


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

Hey man, you should definately check out this site that Naja gave me awhile back. It's such an awesome site for algae

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

(I bookmarked it :hihi

Click on the pictures to make them bigger! If only they include more pictures. I just love that site! I guess I owe Naja, I bet he's keeping score, too, grr :tongue: )


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Natty said:


> Hey man, you should definately check out this site that Naja gave me awhile back. It's such an awesome site for algae
> 
> http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm
> 
> ...


Thanks...


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

hey my otos do a good job of of cleaning it up. i just put them in the tank yesterday and its basically all gone. shrimp help too!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

cool, I may go grab some ottos tomorrow and some galaxy rasboras if I can find some.

Craig


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

hey craig, i have the same stuff as u i believe, i am going to try to get otos today, if i do, i'll tell u how it wrks out


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

Hair algae, as with most any green algae is a nutrient issue. At the top of the pyramid is CO2, then nitrogen, then phosphorous. I'll assume you have enough K. Oto's won't solve your problem. Any yellow or translucent leaves? That's nitrogen deficiency. Running PO4 low will often cause hair algae with seemingly no major issues, but usually you'll see green spot before that happens. None of the above? Increase your CO2 or create better circulation. If you do this and you have plenty of plants, it will go away on its own in about 2 weeks provided it's not too bad of a case.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Avalon said:


> Hair algae, as with most any green algae is a nutrient issue. At the top of the pyramid is CO2, then nitrogen, then phosphorous. I'll assume you have enough K. Oto's won't solve your problem. Any yellow or translucent leaves? That's nitrogen deficiency. Running PO4 low will often cause hair algae with seemingly no major issues, but usually you'll see green spot before that happens. None of the above? Increase your CO2 or create better circulation. If you do this and you have plenty of plants, it will go away on its own in about 2 weeks provided it's not too bad of a case.


Dosing is EI dosing 20-40 g full strength. I can dose extra PO4 if I have to. CO2 levels are from 50-60 ppm via a 5 dkh drop checker being completely yellow. CO2 is injected inline of my Eheim ecco 2236 via a Mazzei Venturi. A few yellows on the lower set of leaves on a couple of my erios. The tank contains Eriocaulons, Toninas, and UG. Decided earlier not to add Fuana as I really like my tank plant only. Soil/ Peat base covered in 1/2- 1" of Tahitian Moon Sand for a total substrate depth of 3.5-5". I did clean out my filter today as it was really dirty and flow is back up. Started a couple of days ago so hopefully its not too far gone..

Thanks


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

I'm not sure what the 20-40g EI dose is, but since I have a ballpark to play in, I'll estimate my estimations.  Increase your nitrates (KNO3?). I've noticed that Tonina's love nitrogen and like to be saturated in it. I think Erio's are very similar to Tonina's in their growth enviornments, but maybe slightly pickier. They still like N I've noticed. P can be low, but you don't want to get too low with it. Keeping it stable will keep you from serious problems. Given stability in dosing, P deficiencies will gradually rear its' ugly head over time. From what I've read in this post, N has scraped the bottom a little too often. N can be deceptive when testing for it because its' quantity (ppm) can change so rapidly from lights on to lights off. When a tank has a proper supply of CO2 and other nutrients, the use of N can skyrocket. In my current 29g, it's using about 5ppm of NO3 per day with only 65w of light. Frankly speaking, I dose a LOT of KNO3.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Avalon said:


> I'm not sure what the 20-40g EI dose is, but since I have a ballpark to play in, I'll estimate my estimations.  Increase your nitrates (KNO3?). I've noticed that Tonina's love nitrogen and like to be saturated in it. I think Erio's are very similar to Tonina's in their growth enviornments, but maybe slightly pickier. They still like N I've noticed. P can be low, but you don't want to get too low with it. Keeping it stable will keep you from serious problems. Given stability in dosing, P deficiencies will gradually rear its' ugly head over time. From what I've read in this post, N has scraped the bottom a little too often. N can be deceptive when testing for it because its' quantity (ppm) can change so rapidly from lights on to lights off. When a tank has a proper supply of CO2 and other nutrients, the use of N can skyrocket. In my current 29g, it's using about 5ppm of NO3 per day with only 65w of light. Frankly speaking, I dose a LOT of KNO3.


Thanks for the advice, here is what I dose and when:

20~40gal
50%H20 change-Sunday Morning
1/4Tsp-KN03 Sun, Tues, Thurs
~1/16Tsp-KH2P04 Sun, Tues, Thurs
~1/16Tsp-K2S04 Sun, Tues, Thurs
5ml or 1/16Tsp-Trace Mon, Wed, Fri
2ml-Fe/Iron Mon, Wed, Fri

I will start dosing a tad extra KNO3. I will start testing over the next few days after dosing and before lights out to get a ball park usage. Thanks for the great advice and look forward to more of your replies.

Craig


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

Avalon said:


> Hair algae, as with most any green algae is a nutrient issue. At the top of the pyramid is CO2, then nitrogen, then phosphorous. I'll assume you have enough K. Oto's won't solve your problem. Any yellow or translucent leaves? That's nitrogen deficiency. Running PO4 low will often cause hair algae with seemingly no major issues, but usually you'll see green spot before that happens. None of the above? Increase your CO2 or create better circulation. If you do this and you have plenty of plants, it will go away on its own in about 2 weeks provided it's not too bad of a case.


+ reputation scale for you... oh wait..


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

Given that, I would increase KNO3 substantially, KH2PO4 should be ok, but you may need more. K2SO4 should be increased if you have Hygrophila's or a lot of fast growers. Traces should be increased to 10mL, and 1-2mL iron (Seachem) every day. This is a moderate light w/ good CO2 regimen for your average 30g well planted tank.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Avalon said:


> Given that, I would increase KNO3 substantially, KH2PO4 should be ok, but you may need more. K2SO4 should be increase if you have Hygrophila's or a lot of fast growers. Traces should be increased to 10mL, and 1-2mL iron (Seachem) every day. This is a moderate light w/ good CO2 regimen for your average 30g well planted tank.


Thanks, any doses for Macros you would start with.

I have 100 watts of lighting. 30 watts of Flourescent 5000k via 2 18" 15 watt tubes for 10 hours a day and a burst that includes 70 watts of 8000k MH HQI for 5 hours a day. Mostly slow growers in this tank; Eriocaulon Mato Grosso, Eriocaulon Cinerium, Eriocaulon Thialand, Tonina Fluviatilis sp Lotus Flower, Tonina Manuas, Hydrocotyle Verticallata, Lots of slow growing UG. I do use Seachem Iron for my Iron source and dry ferts for the rest. Thanks for taking the time to help me get this straighted out.

Craig


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

I'm unsure of your exact tank size, but I would go with 0.75tsp KNO3, 1/8th tsp KH2PO4. Dose K2SO4 the same as KH2PO4. Traces and iron as mentioned above. Iron must be dosed daily for best health. Keep that stable for a couple of weeks. Make for dang sure CO2 is 100%.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Avalon said:


> I'm unsure of your exact tank size, but I would go with 0.75tsp KNO3, 1/8th tsp KH2PO4. Dose K2SO4 the same as KH2PO4. Traces and iron as mentioned above. Iron must be dosed daily for best health. Keep that stable for a couple of weeks. Make for dang sure CO2 is 100%.


 
Cool, CO2 isn't a problem. tank is a 20g 24x12x17. Should I continue to dose Macros 3 times and Micros opposite with iron everyday; or dose them each every day? Thanks for your time.

Craig


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

You can dose it all together, every other day, except for the iron which needs to be dosed daily. The dosing regimen I gave you is a little aggressive for a 20g, but since you use MH lighting, it may work out ok. If you have N & P test kits handy, dose the ferts, then after 48 hours (before you need to dose again), test N & P and see what you have left over or are short on. This will give you an idea of what your nutrient uptake is like. Honestly, the P still might be a little low once plants adjust and start to take off, but I think you'll have plenty of N.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Thanks, I will post some results in a couple of days.

Craig


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

Keep us updated on this, I am fighting the same battle and will let you know my results.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I will be testing the wanter in the am then dosing and tesing again the will test right before lights out.

Craig


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

yeah, i'm waging war on hair algae myself. i'ld like to know what works for you. i've read up on a lot of forums about different strategies. most people admit that this algae can be difficult.

anyway, i've had a raging case for the last 2 months. so far i've tried:

decreasing light(1.7wpg)
increasing light(3.4 wpg)
excel standard dose
excel 2x dose then 2.5x dose
adding cherry shrimp, amano shrimp, and SAE's
EI ferts
increasing CO2(40+ppm)
three times per week water changes(70-80%)
vigorous manual removal
adding stem plants
minimal fish feeding

the hair algae was doing great all the while. so i went nuclear holocaust on it. 3 day blackout, 2x excel daily, daily 70% water change. that has really tore the algae a new one. finally, it seems to be going away. traces are left but doing poorly. haven't lost any plants yet and the fish and shrimp survived. hope it stays gone.

marufovega


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

NOTHING WILL EAT IT!!!

I battled it in my Mini-M for a while. It's a horrible thing to have to deal with and in a tank with Erio's !!!

Avalon has given you a great amount of info that will more then likely clear it up for you over a few weeks.

I eventually Nuked the tank with Excell, and cut my lighting from 26w to 15w.

Good luck.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

just curious how your battle with the hair algae plague is going.

jd


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

bsmith782 said:


> NOTHING WILL EAT IT!!!


hair algae?
no, nothing eats it. except, of course, for: amano shrimp, most other shrimp, SAE, and the occasional oto (only when short though). 
it is the favorite algae for SAE IME. never had a problem with it in a tank with a SAE.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

man, i've got 3 sae's, 6 amano shrimp, and 4 cherry shrimp in a 14 gallon tank and they don't touch the hair algae. thank god, the blackout worked.

jd


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they dont really help much in a bloom, they are however very good at keeping the bloom from happening. also, fish that are well fed with flakes and veggies, dont really go for algae.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

well, when the outbreak first started, i wasn't feeding the sae's or amanos anything and there were no other fish. this went on for a month and they demonstrated no interest in the hair algae. now that the blackout has wiped out 99.99999999% of the algae, i have noticed both the shrimp and sae's appear to be at least picking at a spot or two where the algae has just started to reappear. i think that they are keeping it in check. it's been almost four weeks since the blackout and the tank looks great.

perhaps they do help with hair algae but they're no cure for a major outbreak. that stuff just grows and spreads too fast.

jd


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