# What black substrate for 50 gal?



## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

While I have not personally used it, at this point Flourite Black is probably your best bet for an easily available and consistently good quality black substrate.


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

shipping from drs. foster and smith is super cheap for the black florite. 3 bags should do it, 4 if you want the substrate really deep. they also have some lights on sale super cheap. I just set up a 58 gallon, same footprint as yours just 3inches taller.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

How does this compare to eco-complete? Because I notice 3 bags of this (45 pounds) would cost close to $80 with shipping, while 3 bags of eco-complete (60 pounds) would cost under $60 from petsolutions.com. Or to cut down on the price, can you mix this with black gravel?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes, you can mix with black gravel, or black Colorquartz, if you can find a local supplier.

I mixed about 50/50 black Flourite and black T grade CQ in my 90gal and am quite happy with the results.


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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

I've been very happy with my eco-complete
and even low maintenance plants really appreciate a good substrate
cheers-K


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

You can use 100% black Colorquartz if you've got a local supplier. Much cheaper than Flourite and just as good for low light.


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

dm76 said:


> How does this compare to eco-complete? Because I notice 3 bags of this (45 pounds) would cost close to $80 with shipping, while 3 bags of eco-complete (60 pounds) would cost under $60 from petsolutions.com. Or to cut down on the price, can you mix this with black gravel?



I didn't know petsolutions. had cheap shipping on substrate. thats a great price for eco, I would just go for it. unless you have black gravel already I don't think you will save any money doing a mix.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok maybe I will just order that then. I was just thinking if gravel looked better, but I guess if buy 3 bags of gravel in the store, thats about $50 with tax, so I'm not realy saving anything.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Gravel will grow them just as well as sand, some smaller foreground plants might appreciate the smaller grain, but that might not be relevant in a low tech tank. For what it's worth, it seems like most people regret using gravel after the fact, and decide they want a smaller grain or sand for aesthetic purposes. Then again, it seems like most people regret their first choice no matter what it is, unless it's a specialized plant substrate like Eco or Aquasoil.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

I guess the only thing I am worried about is what it will look like. I want something that is a nice dark black color. I have seen some people say that eco-complete makes the water cloudy, and some say it doesn't. Some say it has other colors in it, some say it doesn't. So I am just a little confused. If I can put it in there, and it is a nice black color, and looks nice (doesn't look like dirt) and it won't make a big mess when I vacuum it, I will be happy. I just want to be sure before I spend that much on something without seeing it, and then end up being stuck with it if I don't like it.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

The inconsistency of eco-complete is why I suggested the black fluorite. I have eco, and I like it, but I got mine years ago. The fact that caribsea is now including a pouch of flocculant with their product speaks volumes, that combined with the other issues that have been reported, I'd prefer to steer clear of that product from now on. It's too expensive to play roulette with the quality of the substrate. Even though it's said to be messy to initially rinse, at least flourite is a manufactured product, you can expect consistency. Also, there is no silly magic juice in the bag, so you're getting more actual product for your money. 

At least if you mix a sand with a plant substrate you can sift it apart in the future if you choose. Don't use ordinary gravel, it's epoxy coated, and if it is even thoroughly coated in the beginning (which is doubtful), it'll eventually wear off and start effecting your water parameters. Especially don't mix regular gravel and a plant substrate, you'll be kicking yourself down the line, I know I did, essentially a waste of that bag of eco.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Flourite Black and Black Sand, as well as 3M Colorquart Black are as black as it gets.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yeah, from your description, those are probably what you want. I don't think you'd like the earthiness of Eco, whether it turns out to be a good batch or not.

Imeridian, good point about the gravel, I don't think I kept the stuff around long enough to remember that. Now I distinctively remember a pink pebble that kept showing up. :red_mouth


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Heh, I had a big chunk of bright red in my eco... and some neon green in the black gravel. 

I spent an evening a couple months ago sifting out the gravel from the eco, I was only semi-successful, but at least I got rid of most of the nasty semi-coated black gravel.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks for pointing that out not to get epoxy coated gravel. So Flourite black or black sand is what I want? Is black sand flourite, or just a regular black sand?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

No, I think flourite sand is a type of clay. 3M Colorquartz is quartz if I'm not mistaken.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Colorquartz is quartz coated in colored enamel. It's actually manufactured to go in pools, so it's completely inert. They've got it in just about every color of the rainbow... LOL

Flourite is fired clay, so it contains some nutrients (especially high in iron so it's a great substrate for swords and crypts) and also has a high CEC, so will absorb nutrients from the water column and hold them for the plants to pull in through their roots.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Laura, did you rinse each one separately, and if so which would you say held shape better? I'm thinking of using one of them to cap mineralized soil in the new tank. I'm leaning toward the Flourite since I'm a clay lover already.


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## Fish for Brains (Mar 9, 2009)

The 3M Colorquartz also comes in two sizes, one that is small, spherical grains like sand (S-grade) and one that is slightly larger and angular, like small gravel (T-grade). The 3M website will list distributors in your area. My local distributor has it for about $20 per 50 pound bag, including tax and it can be picked up to avoid freight charges. But they also have a three bag minimum. That probably varies from distributor to distributor.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Which grade are people using? Or does the grade really depend more on preference?

I found a distributed about 60 miles away. I'm going to call tomorrow to see what they charge and if I can pick it up, minimum, etc.


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## Fish for Brains (Mar 9, 2009)

I think the grade primarily is a matter of preference. I know both grades are being used by people here. 

Jargonchipmunk has some good close shots of the T-grade in his journal, here:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...rgonchipmunks-first-scape-pics-03-15-a-2.html

That's what convinced me to go with it.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Looks good!

Hopefully the T grade is not as lightweight as the Flourite black sand, that stuff gets blown all over my tank with just an AC20 on the lowest it can go! Couldn't imagine it in my 40g breeder with a powerhead or something. Love the color/look though.


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## marrow (Feb 4, 2007)

No the t-grade does not get blown around at all. It holds plants exceptionally well and can even hold a reasonable slope. I have had SMS and eco and ADA and have liked the colorquartz the most and it is really black not grayish etc.


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

after hearing what people are saying about eco, I'm going back to my original suggestion of flourite. I've been using it for around two years and all my plants have grown well, just rinse the heck out of it or you'll have cloudy water for days. 

I've also have black sand in my nano shrimp tank, and although it looks great at first and is easy to plant in, its very hard to clean, after a year it looked so bad that I tore down the tank just to rinse the sand. I would hate to have to do that to a larger tank.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

I'm glad you posted that about the black sand being very hard to clean. I think I will probably go with the flourite. I called a local store and they had flourite dark for $20 a bag. How does that compare to flourite black? I think I will rule out eco-complete since I'd want to see it first to make sure it looks good, and the only place I found it locally costs $40 a bag! So forget that.


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

the dark isn't black. If was looking for black substrate I would just order the flourite from Drs, foster and smith. when you figure in tax and gas driving around not to mention time. your not really saving anything. 

I recently ordered 3 bags of regular flourite, a 96 watt power compact fixture, A bunch of filter media, food, and some other stuff that I can't remember and it was only 13 bucks shipping, the light was on back order and they shipped it the following week no extra charge.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Big Al's has free shipping for $100+ orders. Good time to grab bulky stuff along with all the miscellaneous things you'll need. 4L of Prime and Fluorite blk should be close to the free shipping limit.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Unfortunately, that free shipping offer excludes heavy-weight items.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Bummers. But is the Flourite any more than the 4L seachem products? I just ordered both 4L Excel and Prime along with smaller stuff and got no shipping charge.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

You only have to pay extra shipping if the item has the "weight charge" logo, like the Flourite Black does. Fortunately the 4L seachem products don't have the extra weight charge.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

I just called another place that said they have the black and it is in 20 pound bags. Does this stuff really come in 20 pound bags, or do you think they messed up and its really 15 pounds? It was $30.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

$30 is too much, and the Flourites do come in 15lb bags. You'd be much better off paying shipping from DFS, they have it for $22 a bag.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok, yeah I guess I may as well. They had a picture of it on the site, and of the black sand. I'm glad someone mentioned the sand was harder to take care of or I might have ordered it because it looks nice! But I'll just the flourite black. According to their calculator, it looks like 4 bags should give 2 inches of coverage for 36" x 18". That should be enough, right? I need a heater too so I may as well get it all, they have it for a decent price. Any other ferts or anything I need that I should get now too? I think I may hold off on the light fixture for now, and just order a bulb for the T8 fixture that came with the tank. I think that along with the coralife T5 fixture at Big Al's might be ok according to others in the forum, but I am a little concerned that it seems difficult to find replacement 36" T5 bulbs. All the ones I see are HO bulbs. Well my filter is supposed to arrive Tuesday, but I guess I can wait a few more days to get this going. Thanks for all your help.


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

I bought 3 bags, and used about another bags worth from another tank. I put the 3 in the tank first and thought it was plenty, there was a good 2 inches all over. with 4 bags worth I have the substrate sloped from around 2 or 3 inches in front to 4 or 5 in the back. I have the same 36x18 tank. so if you just want a nice flat layer 3 bags should do ya, but I like the big slope so I would get 4


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Yeah that might be good idea to get 4 then, I think some sloping looks good. Any ferts or anything else I should order while I'm ordering things?


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

I'd get a pouch of Purigen, the 100ml size that comes in a bag. It's super-awesome. Seachem Flourish would be good, if you don't already have a micro nutrient mix. Other than that, it's a bit difficult to suggest stuff you might need when not knowing what you have.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

jaidexl said:


> Laura, did you rinse each one separately, and if so which would you say held shape better? I'm thinking of using one of them to cap mineralized soil in the new tank. I'm leaning toward the Flourite since I'm a clay lover already.


Yes I rinsed them separately.

As marrow said, the CQ seems to hold shapes really well and is heavier than Flourite.

If cost is no issue I'd go with Flourite for the high CEC, though.


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