# Really pushing the envelope on low tech/DIY...



## Star.fish (May 27, 2011)

First off... Hello! I have been reading this forum like mad via google search results. Obviously this forum covers nearly everything I've been searching for! Well, NEARLY everything.. You'll see that I've got a very interesting scenario.

Okay, so here's the sitch (situation): I used to dabble in aquarium keeping about 7-8 years ago. Just recently, I got a sudden impulsive passion to dive back into it. And boy, what a dive. I figured I would possibly get a 30-55 gallon tank. Mmhmm. Right. Came home with a 6' 125 gallon tank the next day (couldn't resist- 1970's era stand, plus hundreds of dollars in "stuff"- $175 for the whole lot). "Stuff" includes: Several HOT filters, tons of pumps (at least 6), dinky heaters, a sump (with bioballs), and various other odds and ends (previous owner did saltwater). 

So, I am on an extreme budget (whoo college student life!), but I am determined to make this work. It has been constant research, hours a day for 2+ weeks now. Here is the plan:
Filtration:
I have decided to do nothing with the HOT filters (partially because there is a wooden frame that fits over the tank that prevents anything from hooking over the side because of the extra width, but also cause they generally are worthless, or so I've read). I was looking for a canister filter, but they are WAY out of my price range, and I am scared of the cheap ones. I have decided to work with the sump. For media, I think I am going to do bioballs mixed with plastic wool (the dish scrubbers), sponges, filter floss, and some Purigen. Very DIY-style.
Substrate:
Okay, don't gasp in horror. I really read up on this (A LOT), and decided to go for it. Bottom layer is organic potting soil with peat moss and coconut husk (sold for terrariums, etc.) mixed in, second layer is gravel, and the third is river sand (ACTUAL river sand, i.e., I shoveled it myself.. from the river). I assure you, I rinsed it and rinsed it and rinsed it more. All day today. Biggest pain ever. Layered substrate only about 2" deep.
Lighting:
Really need help here. Everyone has their own opinion, and this is incredibly confusing. Mind you, I am going as el cheapo as I can here. I have picked up 1 48" 2x32w t8 shop light from Lowes just to have it on hand as I researched and measured. I plan to get 2 of them. Things get tricky here..
I want to make an amazing aquascape. I plan to get this (down the road, obviously): http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/PAP/11APP They base your order on the specifics of your tank, and I don't want to get shorted on awesome plants because my tank isn't up to par. I read that wpg are important, then I read that they're not, that it's the kelvins; I read that in larger tanks you can get away with less wpg, but then others say you can't. Nearly going grey just trying to figure it out.
Would like to think I can get away with the right mix of t8s and no extra work, but I am doubting it. I will OD *if* necessary (then I'll hop on over to the DIY section :icon_wink) and do some DIY reflectors (paint, foil, whatevs). Trust me, if I could afford it, I would spend thousands setting this tank up..
C02:
Yes, I will be doing this, and yes, pressurized. A friend is going to give me a 20gal c02 tank, so half the battle is won there. The regulator prices make me shiver, and the DIY on that makes my head spin.

I don't think I'm forgetting anything (heaters and such will come a bit later). Keep in mind that I have no fish to kill (but a 13 cent goldfish that has a 5 gallon tank to hang in during renovations- there was just something about having 1 inch of simple fish vs 125 gallons :biggrin and no plants to poison.. A [poor man's] masterpiece in the making!

Thank you for reading through all that! I know us novices are always fun:hihi:. I am open to ANY and ALL suggestions and advice. With all my searches on google and wading through the web page by page (currently 23 tabs up on aquariums), I always ended up on this forum, so I KNOW I'm in the right place, and hopefully you can help me get through this mess I've gotten myself into. I am stoked to be here as a member!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

just a note on your plants. i would think of a scape you had in mind, then order from different people via swap and shop. typically online retailers for plants dont have as good of quality or quantity you will get at the SNS. other than that, there isnt much i can say for the rest of your plan, as i know nothing about larger tanks


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I assume your tank is 72L x 18W x 22H. With a 22 inch height, the 2 x T8 shop lights will barely give you enough light for low light plants, and only right under the lights. Add a couple of 24 inch long 2 x T8 lights, so you have two rows of light across the top of the tank, and you get more light, probably enough to grow all low light plants well. Add good CO2, with the pressurized CO2 system - get a drop checker to guide you to having enough CO2 in the water - and you should be able to grow most plants, including a lot of high light plants. (We are wandering away from low tech now.)

I would be careful not to use too fine sand, to avoid any anaerobic pockets in the substrate. Also, really fine sand will quickly migrate down under the gravel, so it doesn't do you much good. What do you mean by gravel? I don't see any benefit to using 3 layers of substrate. Just the nutrient rich soil layer, and a layer of 1-3 mm sand will do all you need it to do. Pool filter sand is cheap and a good substrate material. Or, screen the river sand to get rid of the really fine stuff.

For plants, I agree with orchidman, use the Swap n Shop forum for all of your plants. That is one of the best features of this forum.


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## Star.fish (May 27, 2011)

I've read up on the sand, and also got a tip from someone who used a similar layering. Plan on getting a healthy amount of trumpet snails to make sure the sand is being moved around. It's not very deep, so I don't think the anaerobic pockets will be a big issue. 

As for the plants, I surfed around the site http://freshwateraquariumplants.com/index.html Not only do they grow most plants themselves (as opposed to shipping from elsewhere) they claim to be avid hobbyists. I read through their "About Us" section, customer reviews, and saw some pictures of customers tanks. Only place I've seen that takes every bit of your tank's specs into consideration, hand picks your order, and even adds extras! Even if they only gave me the bare minimum of 85 (which they say there are always extras in the large package-- customer reviews prove it), it would only be $2 a plant. Buying for a 125 gallon couldn't get any cheaper!

So, you say the lighting is definitely a no-go? If I am understanding how to OD the lights correctly, then I oughta be able to pump out 2.04wpg. I guess I've still got some things to figure out with lighting *sigh*.

Any thoughts on the sump? I think it'll be fun to put together, and mostly physics doing the work, with only one pump working to push the water back to the tank. Is a sump only as good as it's media?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd personally go with three rows of T8s- that should give you enough light to get a low-light carpeting plant going if you want, and enough light to keep a few of the easier stems in addition to the "traditional" low tech plants like Anubias, Java ferns, crypts, mosses, etc. 

You don't have to OD the bulbs- IMO that just makes them burn out more quickly, and I think it would be a better choice to add an extra row (3 rows would give you better back-to-front light coverage across the bottom of the tank) instead. 

I often will buy from an online site when putting together a big tank or a specific plant selection- it is typically cheaper than paying individual shipping and trying to find everything I want from individual hobbyists. But I agree that you usually do get much more and better quality plants from hobbyists, especially as the acclimation die-off isn't usually as bad (most commercially produced plants are grown emersed so have to go through a very big die-off when put into an aquarium).

And yes, a sump is only as good as the media you use, since the media ARE in effect the filtration. That's not to say that you have to buy expensive media- what you've got planned sounds pretty workable. The only thing I'd encourage you to consider is how to add more mechanical filtration to your setup. Planted tanks are some of the messiest types of aquarium setups and produce TONS of debris, so good mechanical filtration and the flow to make sure that debris gets pushed into the filter will significantly reduce a hobbyist's job in keeping the tank clean and free of algae. You might want to add a filter sock and/or some sponges early on- something easy to remove and clean.

You likely also will need some additional powerheads in the tank for flow if you're planning on just a gravity-fed sump. Without good flow, debris will just build up in dead spots in the tank, and debris buildup leads to algae issues.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

Patience. Trying to turn a 125 into anything except a swamp with no budget is hard, so tackle one issue at a time. I know because my college roommate had one we were both poorer than poor :tongue:.


Here is what we did:

- (2) 48" shop lights, 4 5500k or whatever cheapest grow bulb I could find at home depot
- Don't waste your time trying to nutrient load the substrate. We used a mix of sand and pebbles from the local building supply store as well as locally collected driftwood/rocks. _The hardscape is what makes or breaks a tank like this, IMO._
- Filter was an ancient Eheim classic that was purchased used for I don't even remember how much. Not a lot. 
- 2 penguin powerheads placed at one end, again purchased used and of the biggest GPH available.
- No CO2, but this was years back when pressurized CO2 was for millionaires. You have a CO2 tank, so scrounge up a few bucks for an all-in-one type regulator.
- Plants were mostly big vals (I fertilized the roots with cheap jobes sticks back then) and mature anubias nana, but plenty of other aquatic weeds rotated through. Focus on growing super easy plants in aesthetically pleasing ways.
- For fish, it was stocked with a handful of bass and a few plecos (including a zebra that was purchased for <$20 at the time)

I wish I had photos, but I was too poor to have a camera back then! The tank was in the main living area and was very well received. Because of the all the locally collected hardscape materials, it ended up as an unintentional local biotope.


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## Star.fish (May 27, 2011)

You guys are giving me great stuff! I knew it was the right place to come. With overdriving, I heard that yes, the lights die off quicker, but I also heard that normally, the lights lost nearly half their brightness after several months anyhow. I put the tank I bought as my avatar. Even empty, it's gorgeous!! Note the wood frame.. What do you think?? I'm in love!

Lauraleellbp, funny that you mentioned emersion. I had no idea about that until I read that website (they do not do it, and warn against it) . Although I am a novice, that site looks like they really go above and beyond. I recommend giving it a look-see (especially the pictures!!).

When I said "pumps", I shoulda said powerheads. I have a kajillion of them, so I am prime there. I'll have to test them all out, since the only one I tested sent my poor little goldfish flying to the other end of the tank! WAY too powerful!

Do you think I should have posted this in DIY, or is it at home here in low tech? I'd like to get as much input as possible on every aspect of this tank..


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

1 t8 @ 2x ODNO 12" to substrate = highlight according to the all red limno aromatica in my 5gal, it'd still definitely be low light at 23" though and you'd still likely need 4 bulbs all @ 2xODNO minimum and that should do ya for ya low tech. After that I'd go for 2 t5ho's and co2 for high-tech.That's my 2 cents on the ODNO factor. Hope it helps..

For a filter, I'd go with a sunsun hw-404b, maybe two to get across the whole tank, they're about 120 shipped a piece and you won't be disappointed


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## Star.fish (May 27, 2011)

Booger-- Made me chuckle! Patience indeed! I know that I am looking at a couple months til I will have everything in place.. 

The substrate is already down. Planning on just getting a couple of plants at a local store just to see how they do before I dump $170 on the package deal at freshwateraquariumplants.com 

Right now, the plan is: 1. Get sump set up and operating 2. Order glass top (didn't come with one) 3. Do whatever I have decided to do with lighting 4. Heater shopping 5. 3-5 various plants 6. A couple of fish 7. Finish c02 set-up

If all goes well, then I'll start loading it up (the fun part!)

P.S. Got an amazing piece of wood from the river that I'll be popping in soon (gonna sand and clean first). It's at least 50" long. Gonna be an ugly murky tank for a while, but I know in the end, it'll be SO worth it. And don't worry, I won't put any flora or fauna in danger by trying to move things along too fast. Baby steps.. And very experimental! Maybe I ought to start taking pictures now.. So we can see just how much I can get away with!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i would soak the driftwood first


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## Star.fish (May 27, 2011)

Wish I could boil it, but how the heck does one boil 50+" of wood? I'll probably soak it for a few days outside, changing out the water and such to get the bulk of tannin out, but I figured there would be little difference soaking it in my tank vs. soaking it outside beyond that, since there's nothing to hurt besides eyes.. Cause I am sure it will be an eyesore for some time. Well, til I get the sump pumpin' with the Purigen anyway.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

soak it, changing the water every few days. soak with water first time, then bleach and water, then water for the rest.


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## seadreamer (May 6, 2007)

I can't see that avatar! I'm old. Give us a big picture!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think this is a good forum to ask questions about your overall setup, but the DIY forum would be great to have different threads going about your lighting and sump design options. roud:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Star.fish said:


> Wish I could boil it, but how the heck does one boil 50+" of wood? I'll probably soak it for a few days outside, changing out the water and such to get the bulk of tannin out, but I figured there would be little difference soaking it in my tank vs. soaking it outside beyond that, since there's nothing to hurt besides eyes.. Cause I am sure it will be an eyesore for some time. Well, til I get the sump pumpin' with the Purigen anyway.


Build a solar oven out of two spaced layers of clear visqueen plastic and an insulated box. Make sure the wood is soaking wet. It should get hot enough inside the oven to pasteurize any bugs and fungi that are in or on it.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

you need to put up a larger picture of the tank.. it look neat in
your avatar but my eyes arent that great. take pity and post a larger pic :icon_bigg


if you put sand on top of gravel then add trumpet snails I guarantee the larger chunks of gravel WILL migrate up on top of your sand.


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## RickRS (Dec 31, 2010)

Star.fish said:


> I was looking for a canister filter, but they are WAY out of my price range, and I am scared of the cheap ones.


Don't be. I took a chance with a SunSun/Perfect HW302 and found it is well worth consideration for any setup and a godsend for a budget limited setup. If I were you I would seriously consider an Odyssea CFS 500, another budget champ.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Overstocked also did a favorable review on a Sunsun canister here @ TPT.


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