# DYI CO2 for 36 Gallon Tank



## zyn1 (Aug 26, 2010)

Need advice, sort of new to CO2 systems, I am planning on making my DYI C02 system this weekend. After reading few articles I am still unclear about following:

1. Is one 2 liter bottle enough to supply sufficient C02 levels for rich growth in 36 gallon tank?

2. What happens once a mixture runs out and no replacement bottle has been used, does the Ph drop dangerously low possibly killing fish? Any way to avoid this?

3. Where can I find tubing specific for CO2 gas, I cannot find any in my LPS?

THX


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

1. Is one 2 liter bottle enough to supply sufficient C02 levels for rich growth in 36 gallon tank? Nope.

2. What happens once a mixture runs out and no replacement bottle has been used, does the Ph drop dangerously low possibly killing fish? Any way to avoid this? Nope. And you've got the relationship backwards. Anyway, DIY produces very little CO2, so you won't have a problem.

3. Where can I find tubing specific for CO2 gas, I cannot find any in my LPS?
Check the forum sponsors. I just bought some from GLA.


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## zyn1 (Aug 26, 2010)

thanks, looks like i need to read up on this before i get started.. too many noob mistakes....haha


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## zyn1 (Aug 26, 2010)

what would be the optimal DYI set up for 36 Gallon tank, right now i am getting about 1.33WPG, is this much WPG worth the trouble of a DYI CO2?


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

zyn1 said:


> what would be the optimal DYI set up for 36 Gallon tank, right now i am getting about 1.33WPG, is this much WPG worth the trouble of a DYI CO2?



If I were you, I wouldn't bother. The amount of CO2 generated is so small that I doubt you'd see any perceptible difference.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

The addition of any CO2 will be beneficial to your plants, while 1 2L bottle is probably not enough, you could set up 2-3 2L bottles and that will definitely supply you with a good amount of CO2. With multiple bottles you can change one every week which maintains a near constant flow to avoid any drastic changes in CO2. As for tubing, just regular old airline tubing will be fine. 

How do you plan on dissolving your CO2? I would suggest setting up an inline reactor, this will vastly improve the efficiency of the DIY CO2 set-up.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> The addition of any CO2 will be beneficial to your plants, while 1 2L bottle is probably not enough, you could set up 2-3 2L bottles and that will definitely supply you with a good amount of CO2. With multiple bottles you can change one every week which maintains a near constant flow to avoid any drastic changes in CO2. As for tubing, just regular old airline tubing will be fine.
> 
> How do you plan on dissolving your CO2? I would suggest setting up an inline reactor, this will vastly improve the efficiency of the DIY CO2 set-up.



You can ghetto fab a whole bank of yeast bottles, but it's still a bad solution to a very easily solved problem.


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

I use three 2L bottles of DIY CO2 in my 10g tank. 2 of them contain 1 tsp of yeast and the last bottle has 1/2 tsp of yeast.


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## littlefish (Aug 6, 2010)

I am using this co2 DIY system and I recommend it: 
http://freshwater-aquarium-passion.blogspot.com/2010/07/do-it-yourself-carbon-dioxide-injection.html


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Booger said:


> You can ghetto fab a whole bank of yeast bottles, but it's still a bad solution to a very easily solved problem.


Please elaborate...

Many people myself included have managed to use DIY CO2 with great success. To throw out a blanket statement like 'it is pointless and won't do any good' is wrong. Some people either can't afford a full CO2 system or they simply enjoy DIY projects and experimenting. DIY CO2 is certainly a viable alternative and these people should not be scared away from doing it if they want to just because you have a preconceived notion that it is 'bad solution'. Sure it is not the 'best solution' but sometimes the best solution isn't the best solution, you know what I mean.


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## Cbwmn (Nov 30, 2007)

tharsis said:


> The addition of any CO2 will be beneficial to your plants, while 1 2L bottle is probably not enough, you could set up 2-3 2L bottles and that will definitely supply you with a good amount of CO2. With multiple bottles you can change one every week which maintains a near constant flow to avoid any drastic changes in CO2. As for tubing, just regular old airline tubing will be fine.
> 
> How do you plan on dissolving your CO2? I would suggest setting up an inline reactor, this will vastly improve the efficiency of the DIY CO2 set-up.


I used to use two 1 gallon bottles hooked in tandem to my 46 gallon BF.
It did produce enough CO2 but I did change one bottle a week. 
I diffused the gas through the intake of my XP2 canister. It did work well but I got tired 
of mixing a new batch every week. I went pressurized.
Good luck
Charles


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## davinci27 (Jul 27, 2010)

Booger said:


> If I were you, I wouldn't bother. The amount of CO2 generated is so small that I doubt you'd see any perceptible difference.


I'm new to this planted tank stuff, I've only been going for a couple of months. But it seems like just saying nope won't work isn't really fair. I'm running DIY CO2 on my 75G and my drop checker stays a nice bright green. I'm running 2 - 1 Gallon bottles that are staggered started. I also dose some excel to augment and control algae just in case my CO2 gets out of wack. 

You can see my tank here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/114161-75g-version-1-0-my-first.html Look at the first shot and the second shot a little further down. My plants are growing well, and algae isn't a big problem at the moment. My plants had a noticeable increase in growth when I added the DIY CO2. 

I've spent all my money on plants, and any more money I get for a while will be for fish. Right now I don't have the $200 to do CO2 tanks and DIY CO2 is working well for me. Eventually I'll get a reg and a CO2 canister, but until then I do what I have to do.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> Please elaborate...




How many threads are dedicated to the desperate avoidance of pressurized CO2? Chemicals, yeast, magical hardware, and of course having to tailor your entire aquascape around a lack of CO2. People will spend thousands of the rest of their setup, but always seem to run short when they need CO2.

$0.50 incandescent light bulbs from the hardware store are cheap and I'm sure produce some minimal amount of PAR, but they still suck for growing plants. DIY CO2 is in the same category. Better than nothing, but not by much. People spend money on lighting because it's easy to understand and provides an instant, visual payoff (OMG bright). Pressurized CO2 requires a little more study and patience, so hobbyists talk themselves out of it.

If you can't afford or don't want pressurized, then stick with plants that do well without it. Otherwise, get a pressurized setup (you can always buy used, trade, DIY from ebay parts) and be done with it. Don't fool yourself into thinking that a bank of soda bottles with yeast water is what you need.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

I think you are missing the point...clearly a pressurized CO2 system is easier and more efficient, but that is not what the TS was asking. Your dissmissive answer to his questions were misleading and wrong. Sure it is less stable and more inconvenient but it is still possible to maintain high levels of CO2 capable of growing a wide variety of plants.



Booger said:


> If you can't afford or don't want pressurized, then stick with plants that do well without it.


Why? 

Just because you didn't have the patience 10 years ago to mix sugar/yeast and water together doesn't mean it can't be done or it is somehow a pointless endeavor. You are stating that DIY CO2 is useless, but it clearly is not. Many people are capable of developing a DIY CO2 system where they can maintain 30 ppm and grow great looking plants. 

I am not fooling myself that DIY CO2 is what I NEED, but it is what I HAVE until I can upgrade. In the meantime I will optimize it to the best that I can. There are countless threads showing great successess with DIY CO2 so in my opinion it seems kind of silly to be patrolling threads telling people it is pointless.


anyways sorry to totally derail this thread...


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## davinci27 (Jul 27, 2010)

Some people do spend thousands, but some people have to buy a little at the time. I have T8 lights because they were cheap and convenient. Would it be nice to have a nice t5HO? Sure. Would it have cost me twice as much? Yes. Are my plants still growing well with the T8s? Absolutely. The same applies to CO2. So far my DIY CO2 is doing well. My plants are growing and pearling like crazy. Would a pressurized CO2 setup be better? Sure. Until then, DIY will fill the gap and let me enjoy watching things grow.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> I think you are missing the point...clearly a pressurized CO2 system is easier and more efficient, but that is not what the TS was asking. Your dissmissive answer to his questions were misleading and wrong.


Read my original response again. I'm not sure what you're taking issue with.




tharsis said:


> Just because you didn't have the patience 10 years ago to mix sugar/yeast and water together doesn't mean it can't be done or it is somehow a pointless endeavor. You are stating that DIY CO2 is useless, but it clearly is not. Many people are capable of developing a DIY CO2 system where they can maintain 30 ppm and grow great looking plants.


Where are these tanks? Seriously. If people are maintaining a consistent 30ppm with soda bottle DIY CO2 on anything larger than 10 gallons, it's news to me. I hope you're not going to claim that any one of your tanks is even close to 30ppm.




tharsis said:


> I am not fooling myself that DIY CO2 is what I NEED, but it is what I HAVE until I can upgrade. In the meantime I will optimize it to the best that I can. There are countless threads showing great successess with DIY CO2 so in my opinion it seems kind of silly to be patrolling threads telling people it is pointless.


Great successes? Where? You HAVE 3 tanks that are all CO2 deficient (if we use 30ppm as a benchmark). Great. It's a hobby and should be about whatever brings you the most enjoyment, but don't tell someone that a couple DIY CO2 soda bottles is going to *"provide rich growth in a 36 gallon tank."*


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

davinci27 said:


> Some people do spend thousands, but some people have to buy a little at the time. I have T8 lights because they were cheap and convenient. Would it be nice to have a nice t5HO? Sure. Would it have cost me twice as much? Yes. Are my plants still growing well with the T8s? Absolutely. The same applies to CO2. So far my DIY CO2 is doing well. My plants are growing and pearling like crazy. Would a pressurized CO2 setup be better? Sure. Until then, DIY will fill the gap and let me enjoy watching things grow.




I did not say that you need pressurized CO2 to grow plants. However, I would bet that you can remove the DIY CO2 setup from your tank with little effect on plant growth. Try it. If I'm wrong, you can easily add it back.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Have a good day :biggrin:


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## davinci27 (Jul 27, 2010)

Booger said:


> I did not say that you need pressurized CO2 to grow plants. However, I would bet that you can remove the DIY CO2 setup from your tank with little effect on plant growth. Try it. If I'm wrong, you can easily add it back.


I could remove the CO2, but why. My plants growth doubled after I added the DIY co2, and my drop checker has stayed a bright green using just DIY CO2. Like I said. I'm new to planted tanks, but I don't think simply saying "It doesn't work" is reasonable advice when others are using it with good luck. 

Good luck with the Tank zyn1. I'm a newbie too and I'll be using DIY until I can afford a reg. So far it has worked for me.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

davinci27 said:


> I could remove the CO2, but why. My plants growth doubled after I added the DIY co2, and my drop checker has stayed a bright green using just DIY CO2. Like I said. I'm new to planted tanks, but I don't think simply saying "It doesn't work" is reasonable advice when others are using it with good luck.
> 
> Good luck with the Tank zyn1. I'm a newbie too and I'll be using DIY until I can afford a reg. So far it has worked for me.



If your plants are growing well, there's a reason. You are assuming a cause and effect relationship. I very much doubt your assertion that DIY CO2 plays a significant role in the health of your plants and there's an easy way to test. At best, you don't have to mess with mixing CO2 anymore. At worst, plant growth slows a little for a few weeks.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

OP, Personally I wouldn't mess with DIY co2 and wait until you can buy a pressurized co2 setup.
I have only been able to provide enough co2 with DIY in a 10 gallon.
I have tried a 6 2l bottle rig of Diy co2 on 10, 15, 20, 29, 40, 55, and 75 gallons. The only ones that Really worked were the 10, 15, and 20 gallons I had good pearling and everything. 
The others simply passed, but the 55, and 75 gallons both developed a nasty case of algae after a little over 3 weeks of using the 2l bottles changing out the mixes every week.

Long story short I spent $50 on mixes for a month and only got minimal plant growth. You would be better off not going through the hassle of Diy.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

get a 5 gallon water cooler jug. they are tricky to seal up with a screw on top but I can instruct you if you wish.


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## BaltimoreGuy (Dec 23, 2009)

DIY Co2 is a fun experience learning and understanding how it works. Sure it will get tiring after a while, but hopefully you'll have the $$ to go pressurized by then. I used it 2 months before going pressurized and I seen a huge difference (20g w/ one 2l bottle). Go with DIY untill you can afford pressurized. Not everyone is rich here.

*Back on topic.....*

Check the sponsor forums, GreenLeafAquariums sells Co2 tubing. Although I have regular airline on mine for about 8 months now and I haven't noticed it getting brittle like some sources said it would.


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## zyn1 (Aug 26, 2010)

thanks appreciate all the input. i will probably end up getting used pressurized system


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## debdp (Apr 9, 2008)

If you can afford a pressurized system by all means get one. I would love to get one but my $$ is split between 4 SW tanks and 1 FW planted. I tried lo-tech with low light plants Excel and no CO2 and then just last week added a DIY CO2 and what a difference in the plants in one week. So for now I'll be using a DIY system. A pressurized system might be inline in the future, but with having read how fast plants grow with a pressurized system it might be a while. 

One of the guys at my local LFS had a DIY system for years and went to pressurized, so of course he touted how great pressurized was, wish he did it sooner...but he also said that DIY is doable. Good luck and enjoy your tank.


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## genEus (Oct 10, 2009)

I've been away from this forum for a while but this post caught my attention, and I wanted to share my experience.

I want to say to the OP - try DIY - with one or two 2L soda bottles. For my setup with only one 2L bottle on my 29G I used the $10 Hagen Elite 3g filter reactor setup (search the forum for it and you'll see how to set one up). 

I was like you when I was starting out my CO2 endeavors. I wanted a pressurized CO2 setup, but didn't want to spend the money. So, I started a 2L bottle on my 29gallon tank. You know what happened? I got sick and tired of my plants overtaking my tank!! A couple months ago, I was very busy with work and school and didn't have time to worry much about my tank looking pretty, so I disconnected the CO2 bottle for a while because I was in my tank, ripping out and throwing out BAGS of plants every week to 2 weeks. Since then, the growth has considerably slowed down and the the plants that I had there started changing shape and growing algae on their leaves. I didn't like that, so yesterday I hooked the bottle back up. I got some more free time on my hands now and want to aquascape again.

Now, when I was buying plants, I did not look for the ones that everyone knew were a b!tch to grow and required pressurized CO2, because I don't get a hard on from aquascaping with the most finicky of plants - I just wanted a lush green tank in the middle of my living room - (but at the same time, I bought a package of 10 different plants from a forum member here and every single one of them grew amazingly well.)

But, my point is that not only was one CO2 yeast/sugar bottle enough for my 29G, it was so much that I had to turn it off. For reference, take a look at my tank one week after I started with CO2 (I stopped dosing Excel because I didn't find it made any difference) - now imagine that but filled in about 5 times more, to the point that my fish couldn't be seen. heh.

As far as tubing - I just used regular air tubing. It's held up just fine for me for over 9 months now.

Hope this helps.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

genEus said:


> I started a 2L bottle on my 29gallon tank. You know what happened? I got sick and tired of my plants overtaking my tank!!



I bet you used to spend $20/month on paper towels, too! What were your approx. CO2 PPM readings before and after? Let me guess - you don't know?

I see a lot of newbies who want so badly to believe, but no one here has bothered to document the basic changes in water chemistry? Your claims are all easily verifiable, if true.


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## genEus (Oct 10, 2009)

Booger said:


> I bet you used to spend $20/month on paper towels, too! What were your approx. CO2 PPM readings before and after? Let me guess - you don't know?
> 
> I see a lot of newbies who want so badly to believe, but no one here has bothered to document the basic changes in water chemistry? Your claims are all easily verifiable, if true.


Don't understand the $20/month on paper towels thing... Why would I spend $20/month on paper towels?

Anyways, no - I don't know my CO2 PPM readings. I judge my tank by whether my plants look healthy and growing or whether they're ridden with algae and are not growing. For me, that's enough.

The funny thing is, there is an abundance of evidence that DIY CO2 does work and works very well. You've been told this many times in this thread, there is undeniable evidence of it all over this forum and other forums on the internet, plus there are decades of people's experience combining sugar, yeast and water and creating beautiful tanks with the resulting CO2.

Are you saying DIY CO2 doesn't work? I am not saying it is as good (or nearly as good) as a pressurized CO2 setup. But, for what it costs (close to 0), I think every person needs to step back and try it, at least to see the results that are achieved. I thought that I wouldn't be happy with it, that it wouldn't be enough, and I had a pressurized CO2 setup in my shopping cart from one of the sponsors, ready to buy. Turned out I didn't need it and I didn't know what to do with the plants that grew in my tank from one 2L bottle. The addition and removal of CO2 and the drastic difference in plant life is "cause-and-effect" in my mind.

I don't have any reason to lie or gain anything from what I am saying. I am simply telling the OP of my experience of the past 9 months with my current tank.

You, Booger, on the other hand, seem to simply want to insult everyone and everyone's personal experience, because you believe that you alone are right. Not sure why.


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## davinci27 (Jul 27, 2010)

I use a drop checker in my 75 and as I sit her looking at it, the color is a very bright green. I us a 4kh solution and 4 drops of regent in the solution. From the information I've read, bright green would put me in the high 20s low 30s PPM. I'm attaching a picture of my drop checker. If I'm reading it wrong somebody please let me know.

Also attached is a picture of my setup. I have 2 1gallon jugs that are stagger started 1.5 weeks apart. These 2 jugs run into a soda bottle setup as a drop checker and then the line from that runs up to the in take on my filter. So far I've been happy. I generally have to trim and move plants twice a week. At the rate I'm going another month and I'll have more stems then I actually have space.


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

Booger said:


> Read my original response again. I'm not sure what you're taking issue with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
OMG! Dude! You are sooooo wrong! I run 3 glass bottle DIY Co2 on a 46 bowfront with 4dkh solution in my drop checker. Ei dosing for just over 3 months.

Pics,











After 3 glass 2L DIY Co2 running at full force, looks like a nice light even yellow green to me! No?










DIY Co2,


















Inline defuser,










Tank,

This is before DIY Co2,








.

These are after,



























DIY Co2 if implemented right produces LOTS of Co2. Even in a tank as large as this 46 gallon tank!

These two pictures are only 5 weeks apart! 


















I'd call this successful, and one very nicely growing tank! No way it would be growing this fast with no algae using EI method with out stable Co2! I'm 10 full weeks into EI using DIY Co2 with ZERO signs of BBA.


Booger, YOU are dead wrong!


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

What I am saying-


 I have not seen evidence to suggest that 2-3 bottles of DIY CO2 are capable of raising CO2 to a consistent 30ppm in a tank > 10 gallons. Photos of a drop checker or some plants that easily grow with or without supplemental CO2 don't count, for obvious reasons.


What I am not saying-


 DIY setups are incapable of providing CO2
 You need pressurized CO2 to grow plants
 All tanks with DIY CO2 suck (though most do, IMO)



Where is all the evidence you speak of? You'd think after all these years and success stories, _someone_ would have bothered to actually measure the difference. No? Weird. You can be the first.


Set a baseline. Use a reasonably accurate meter/test kit to determine PH and KH throughout the day over a reasonable period of time (couple weeks?).
Implement a DIY CO2 solution and test PH/KH at similar intervals
Compare results


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## genEus (Oct 10, 2009)

I would like to set a baseline, and quote tharsis's previous post:



tharsis said:


>


The point of this thread was not to discuss merits of DIY CO2, as they have been proven here, and many times before (regardless of whether you _choose_ to accept that proof or not). 

OP's original questions were simple:



> Need advice, sort of new to CO2 systems, I am planning on making my DYI C02 system this weekend. After reading few articles I am still unclear about following:
> 
> 1. Is one 2 liter bottle enough to supply sufficient C02 levels for rich growth in 36 gallon tank?
> 
> ...


Those are simple questions from someone starting out. Most people starting out are not looking to become the next Takashi Amano... I will attempt to bring this thread back on point and answer the three original questions.

1. It's possible. Depends on other things, such as lighting, the species of plants, and other factors, such as ferts, etc. It's fun to experiment. That's the fun in aquarium keeping. You can research what species need lots of CO2 and which ones don't. Without mentioning the specific plants that you want to grow, it's hard to say, since plants have very different CO2 requirements. You can certainly achieve lush growth with DIY CO2's help. Will one 2L bottle be enough? I think it may be making it, but 2 will be an improvement.

2. The CO2 actually lowers the water's pH level, so it would actually rise a little if the CO2 runs out. In my experience, no harm done to the fish, because the increase is not immediate and not drastic.

3. Some people report disintegration of air tubing due to CO2 gas going through it, although I personally have not experienced it, and neither have many other people. You can use cheap air tubing until you notice a degradation, and if you do notice it degrade, it should be easy enough to replace or upgrade.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

genEus said:


> 1. It's possible. Depends on other things, such as lighting, the species of plants (their CO2) requirements, and other factors, such as ferts, etc. It's fun to experiment. That's the fun in aquarium keeping. You can research what species need lots of CO2 and which ones don't. Without mentioning the specific plants that you want to grow, it's hard to say, since plants have very different CO2 requirements. You can certainly achieve lush growth with DIY CO2's help. Will one 2L bottle be enough? I think it may be making it, but 2 will be an improvement.


Any plant that will grow with 1-2 bottles of DIY CO2 will grow just fine without any supplemental CO2.




genEus said:


> 2. The CO2 actually lowers the water's pH level, so it would actually rise a little if the CO2 runs out. In my experience, no harm done to the fish, because the increase is not immediate and not drastic.


Agreed, but you are contradicting yourself. What are you implying about DIY CO2 if removing it has little effect?




genEus said:


> 3. Some people report disintegration of air tubing due to CO2 gas going through it, although I personally have not experienced it, and neither have many other people. You can use cheap air tubing until you notice a degradation, and if you do notice it degrade, it should be easy enough to replace or upgrade.


Agreed. For this type of thing, air tubing is fine. For pressurized, use CO2 specific tubing. If you want CO2 tubing, I think I have some extra I can send if you PM me your address.


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## davinci27 (Jul 27, 2010)

//Start Feeding Troll
Clearly Booger is the end all be all in planted tank knowledge. Regardless of what experiences I or other users have had, we are wrong. I'm just glad I didn't take his advice otherwise I'd currently have a half planted tank.
//End Feeding Troll

To the OP, in my limited experience DIY CO2 has dramatically improved my plants growth. Prior to DIY CO2 I had slow growth and no pearling. After DIY CO2 I trim at least one to twice a week and my plants pearl most of the day. I haven't been keeping a planted tank long enough to know how easy or hard my plants are to grow. I know that pretty much every plant I've planted has been trimmed and replanted at least once. 

Here's a list of pretty much what I have. Don't know what's hard and what's not. I just know that the growth was lackluster at best prior to diy CO2. Now everything is growing great. If you actually have any questions about DIY CO2 and would like to ask another CO2 newbie about their experiences, please PM me. 

hygrophila bold
pogestemon stellatus
rotala macandra green
clinopodium cf brownei
althenanthera reinickli
sphaerocaryum maleccense
rotala sp butterfly
Limnophila Aromatica
Hygrophila Difformis variegated
Limnophila sp Guinea Needle leaf
Eichornia Diversifolia
Lindernia sp India
rotala colorata
ludwiga repens
ludwiga ovalis
bacopa caroliana
bacopa monieri


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

davinci27 said:


> //Start Feeding Troll
> Clearly Booger is the end all be all in planted tank knowledge. Regardless of what experiences I or other users have had, we are wrong. I'm just glad I didn't take his advice otherwise I'd currently have a half planted tank.
> //End Feeding Troll



Well, you're definitely wrong in saying that much :tongue:. I rely on objective data because I don't know everything. Don't take it personally. We're all on the same team.


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## zyn1 (Aug 26, 2010)

once again, appreciate all the advice, i will attempt at two 2 liter bottle DYI setup this weekend, i'll see if i'll get any decent results in the near future


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Booger said:


> Well, you're definitely wrong in saying that much :tongue:. I rely on objective data because I don't know everything. Don't take it personally. We're all on the same team.


Objective data? What objective data are you basing your claim that DIY CO2 is useless? 

From what I can gather you tried DIY CO2 for a grand total of one day because you didn't have the patience. No offence intended as I am sure you know your way around an aquarium, but you hardly have a wealth of experience from which you can draw the conclusion that DIY CO2 is useless. 



Booger said:


> Any plant that will grow with 1-2 bottles of DIY CO2 will grow just fine without any supplemental CO2.


Where is your proof of this? Where is your objective data? 

Any CO2 will benefit plant growth regardless of the concentration, sure the plants will grow OK if DIY CO2 is not used but there is a huge amount of evidence that suggests that the plants will grow BETTER if used. The DIY CO2 users want improved growth and this method serves that purpose. Pressurized CO2 will provide optimum constant levels for plant growth and allow more difficult plants to be grown but that doesn't mean that anything less is pointless. 

Here are some objective observations from several posters:

Before CO2 addition, plants grew slowly and poorly. After CO2 was added the plants grew faster, were healthier looking and were pearling. Allowing the CO2 to run out led to the plants slowing down and pearling stops. The observation of pearling should lead an 'objective observer' to draw the conclusion that DIY CO2 is providing enough CO2. The removal of DIY CO2 causes pearling to stop, therefore one could pretty easily draw the conclusion that the pearling is due to the DIY CO2. 

How is a drop checker showing green not objective data? The drop checker is showing high levels of CO2 and the plants are pearling. Correlate this to improved plant growth and healthier looking plants......sounds like a functioning CO2 system to me. 

Is a drop checker showing green in a DIY CO2 tank compared to a presurized CO2 tank any different? CO2 is CO2, it doesn't matter where it came from, and the concentration is what matters for the drop checker. The plants don't seem to care either, just you do. 

You mention cause and effect... that people should not assume cause and effect in aquarium keeping. While I agree with you for the most part especially when it comes to keeping algae at bay, there are certain areas where direct cause and effect relationships can certainly be infered. And I think the above example certainly falls under the category of cause and effect. 

If you truly believe that the elevated levels of CO2 from DIY CO2 has nothing to do with the pearling and faster/healthier plant growth that myself and others here have observed than what is it? Is it some divine providence? 

Time to take your own advice and draw conclusions from objective data. If you can prove to me that it does nothing than I will concede and never use another bottle of sugary yeast again. I have however seen first hand the benefits of using it as have many others and for all intents and purposes you have never even tried it. Nothing personal but I will believe first hand obseration over arm waving and 'cause and effect' speeches.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> Objective data? What objective data are you basing your claim that DIY CO2 is useless?


When someone tries to sell me on something and their argument is "well, prove that it _doesn't_ work," I tend to be skeptical. However, you make a point. Why don't we perform some simple tests?

You have an appropriate sized tank and a DIY CO2 setup already. Do you have a quality PH meter and KH test kit? A significant increase in CO2 concentration will yield an easily measurable decrease in PH (given other conditions are held reasonably constant). I wouldn't consider it super reliable data by any means, but certainly a lot better than anything provided here.




tharsis said:


> Any CO2 will benefit plant growth regardless of the concentration, sure the plants will grow OK if DIY CO2 is not used but there is a huge amount of evidence that suggests that the plants will grow BETTER if used. The DIY CO2 users want improved growth and this method serves that purpose. Pressurized CO2 will provide optimum constant levels for plant growth and allow more difficult plants to be grown but that doesn't mean that anything less is pointless..



Yep. DIY CO2 increases CO2 concentration. The question is by how much. I keep asking the same simple question. If it works, you can measure it. The data could prove useful to other hobbyists such as the OP.




tharsis said:


> Before CO2 addition, plants grew slowly and poorly. After CO2 was added the plants grew faster, were healthier looking and were pearling. Allowing the CO2 to run out led to the plants slowing down and pearling stops. The observation of pearling should lead an 'objective observer' to draw the conclusion that DIY CO2 is providing enough CO2. The removal of DIY CO2 causes pearling to stop, therefore one could pretty easily draw the conclusion that the pearling is due to the DIY CO2.


Pearling as a *measure* of DIY CO2 efficacy? I don't think so.




tharsis said:


> How is a drop checker showing green not objective data? The drop checker is showing high levels of CO2 and the plants are pearling. Correlate this to improved plant growth and healthier looking plants......sounds like a functioning CO2 system to me.


That's like licking your finger and holding it up in the air to measure wind speed. Even pretending the drop checker to be an acceptable measure, how can we quantify the difference?




tharsis said:


> If you truly believe that the elevated levels of CO2 from DIY CO2 has nothing to do with the pearling and faster/healthier plant growth that myself and others here have observed than what is it? Is it some divine providence?


Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. Asking for someone to measure the change in CO2 concentration is precisely that.




tharsis said:


> Time to take your own advice and draw conclusions from objective data. If you can prove to me that it does nothing than I will concede and never use another bottle of sugary yeast again. I have however seen first hand the benefits of using it as have many others and for all intents and purposes you have never even tried it. Nothing personal but I will believe first hand obseration over arm waving and 'cause and effect' speeches.


I will make it my mission in life. While I'm at it, stay away from substrate heater cables, most of Amano's voodoo fertilizers, the eco-aqualizer, and anything marketed by Marc Weiss.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

If a drop checker is reading high CO2 concentrations, and the plants are pearling and they are growing healthy, then YES I will use that as a measure of CO2 efficiency. 

If it isn't good CO2 distribution causing these things than what is it? Why do they occur when the CO2 is added and why do they stop when the CO2 is removed? If you made these observations with a pressurized CO2 system would you assume that your CO2 levels are good?



> You have an appropriate sized tank and a DIY CO2 setup already. Do you have a quality PH meter and KH test kit? A significant increase in CO2 concentration will yield an easily measurable decrease in PH (given other conditions are held reasonably constant). I wouldn't consider it super reliable data by any means, but certainly a lot better than anything provided here.


No I don't have a fancy PH meter but I have eyes to observe. When I first set-up the DIY CO2 I had it going through a bubbler and the change was nearly imperceptible because a great deal of the CO2 was gassed off. I then changed to an inline reactor and I immediately saw a difference, the plants started to pearl within 12 hours of hooking it up, I almost gassed my fish the first night because I didn't take the CO2 out. I have to unhook my CO2 at night so as not to kill my fish. These observations should be enough to indicate that the CO2 levels rose dramatically. 

I do however have a crappy PH kit and I have measured my pH straight out of the tank and then 24 hours later and there was a measurable increase in the pH from the degassing. So that should count as objective data to support my previous observations (improved plant growth, healthier looking plants, and pearling). Add to that the copious amounts of anecdotal evidence from posters on here and other forums reporting healthier faster growth and I think there is a sound theory that DIY CO2 does improve the growth of plants and is well worth it if you can't have a pressurized system.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> Sorry but if a drop checker is reading high CO2 concentrations, and the plants are pearling and they are growing healthy, then YES I will use that as a measure of CO2 efficiency.


It's not a measure. It's an indicator. I have many plants that will pearl and display healthy growth without supplemental CO2.




tharsis said:


> If it isn't good CO2 distribution causing these things than what is it? Why do they occur when the CO2 is added and why do they stop when the CO2 is removed? I really would like to know.


Missing the point. You are claiming that 2(3?) bottles of DIY CO2 mix is causing your tank to go from a deficient (<10 ppm?) state to a steady state of ~30ppm concentration. I'm saying that I have not seen empirical data that can support that claim. It's definitely in the best interest of the hobby to collect a small amount of data and make it available.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> If you made these observations with a pressurized CO2 system would you assume that your CO2 levels are good?


No. I use PH controllers and regularly test because I know my eyes introduce bias. I am under the impression that DIY CO2 users don't go to this extent because the small amount of CO2 injected represents little danger to the fish.




tharsis said:


> No I don't have a fancy PH meter but I have eyes to observe. When I first set-up the DIY CO2 I had it going through a bubbler and the change was nearly imperceptible because a great deal of the CO2 was gassed off. I then changed to an inline reactor and I immediately saw a difference, the plants started to pearl within 12 hours of hooking it up, I almost gassed my fish the first night because I didn't take the CO2 out. I have to unhook my CO2 at night so as not to kill my fish. These observations should be enough to indicate that the CO2 levels rose dramatically.
> 
> I do however have a crappy PH kit and I have measured my pH straight out of the tank and then 24 hours later and there was a measurable increase in the pH from the degassing. So that should count as objective data to support my previous observations (improved plant growth, healthier looking plants, and pearling). Add to that the copious amounts of anecdotal evidence from posters on here and other forums reporting healthier faster growth and I think there is a sound theory that DIY CO2 does improve the growth of plants and is well worth it if you can't have a pressurized system.



Lots of heresay. It's hard to understand how all these users could experience such positive results, but not one of them ever bothered to measure?


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Booger said:


> It's not a measure. It's an indicator. I have many plants that will pearl and display healthy growth without supplemental CO2.


Sorry indicator..not measure, arguing semantics doesn't change the observation that a green drop checker, pearling and healthy growth are all suggestive of an efficient CO2 system. If people made these observations on a tank with pressurized CO2 system they would think the system is running well, so why not with DIY system?




Booger said:


> Missing the point. You are claiming that 2(3?) bottles of DIY CO2 mix is causing your tank to go from a deficient (<10 ppm?) state to a steady state of ~30ppm concentration. I'm saying that I have not seen empirical data that can support that claim. It's definitely in the best interest of the hobby to collect a small amount of data and make it available.


To be honest it is still you that is missing the point. I would still like an answer to the question, if it isn't the CO2 causing pearling/good plant growth than what is it? I never said I had steady 30 ppm, what I said that I had a noticeable increase in CO2 concentration (gasping fish + and pH swing) that lead to observable healthier growth in my plants. Thus making DIY CO2 a viable method to improve plant growth if done properly.

I would also like to hear your response to my last two paragraphs. It seems to me that you are simply ignoring all of the evidence that is being provided. You are fixated on getting your high quality pH measurement data and ignoring all of the other evidence in the process. 

To quote Dylan, 'You don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows'. Sometimes you need to believe what your eyes are telling you and not become a slave to fancy doo dads. But if you have a fancy meter then by all means send it to me and I will gladly do the measurements.




> Lots of heresay. It's hard to understand how all these users could experience such positive results, but not one of them ever bothered to measure?


How is measuring a change in ph, seeing a drop checker measuring high concentrations of CO2 , gasping fish (being corrected by CO2 removal), healthy plant growth (correlated to the addition and removal of CO2) all heresay? It is a fine line between stubborness and trolling and I have yet to figure out where you fall. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.


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## genEus (Oct 10, 2009)

Booger said:


> Lots of heresay. It's hard to understand how all these users could experience such positive results, but not one of them ever bothered to measure?


lol. How do you know that a CD recording sounds cleaner than a cassette tape? You can a) listen to it and say "yeah, I can definitely hear the difference" or you can b) use expensive equipment to analyze the level of background noise and distortion from analog audio (tape) vs. digital audio (CD).

Another idea. How do you know that one brownie is sweeter than another brownie? You can a) taste the difference, or b) try to scientifically measure the sugar content of each brownie in the lab.

This entire battle between everyone here and you is that for everyone, a) is enough. For you, unless you can scientifically prove what can be easily observed with a naked eye, you won't be happy. 

In the end, this is a hobby that focuses on beauty, nature, and most importantly (and most fun, I think) - experimentation! Sounds like OP's original questions were taken into a completely new direction. The answer to the question "can lush growth be achieved with DIY CO2" should be a resounding YES. And, I'm happy that the OP is going in this direction first, regardless of what he ends up doing in the end.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

> No. I use PH controllers and regularly test because I know my eyes introduce bias. I am under the impression that DIY CO2 users don't go to this extent because the small amount of CO2 injected represents little danger to the fish.


Ahhh, I am beginning to understand now, you are a techy! I guess we will have to chalk it up to fundamental differences in the philosophy of aquatic plant keeping then. I work in a lab all day with x-ray diffractometers, thermogravimetric analyzers, measuring minute changes in the hydration state of minerals. I am a slave to the data in the lab. For me aquariums are a way of pulling away from being a slave and to go with my observations and intuition. And as a scientist, all of the subjective and empirical evidence that has been presented in this thread suggests that DIY CO2 works well and improves plant growth.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> Sorry indicator..not measure, arguing semantics doesn't change the observation that a green drop checker, pearling and healthy growth are all suggestive of an efficient CO2 system. If people made these observations on a tank with pressurized CO2 system they would think the system is running well, so why not with DIY system?


Indicators are very different than measures given the context of this thread. And no, I wouldn't run a pressurized setup without monitoring/testing, no matter what my eyes tell me. Again, you are missing the point. I am not interested in the specific level of CO2 concentration in your tank. I am questioning the role your DIY CO2 setup plays in *increasing* CO2 concentration.




tharsis said:


> To be honest it is still you that is missing the point. I would still like an answer to the question, if it isn't the CO2 causing pearling/good plant growth than what is it? I never said I had steady 30 ppm, what I said that I had a noticeable increase in CO2 concentration (gasping fish + and pH swing) that lead to observable healthier growth in my plants. Thus making DIY CO2 a viable method to improve plant growth if done properly.


One more time - the growth characteristics of the plants in your tank are beyond the scope of this conversation (DIY CO2 efficacy). Quantititative testing is the only reasonable method to estimate the effect of your DIY CO2 setup. The conditions you describe sound very much like a tank with 30+ ppm CO2 concentration, so measure it and share your methods with the rest of us.




tharsis said:


> I would also like to hear your response to my last two paragraphs. It seems to me that you are simply ignoring all of the evidence that is being provided. You are fixated on getting your high quality pH measurement data and ignoring all of the other evidence in the process.
> 
> To quote Dylan, 'You don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows'. Sometimes you need to believe what your eyes are telling you and not become a slave to fancy doo dads. But if you have a fancy meter then by all means send it to me and I will gladly do the measurements.


Sweet Dylan quotation, but we're not talking about which way the wind blows. We're talking about a measurable increase in CO2 concentration. We each have our own opinions, so the only way to extract value from this is through the collection and evaluation of objective data. Fancy doo dads are the best tools I can think of to facilitate this analysis.




tharsis said:


> How is measuring a change in ph, seeing a drop checker measuring high concentrations of CO2 , gasping fish (being corrected by CO2 removal), healthy plant growth correlated to the addition and removal of CO2 all heresay? It is a fine line between stubborness and trolling and I have yet to figure out where you fall. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.


I hope you don't leave it at that. You have answers to every question except the most basic one.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

OK fine forget about the obvious observation that adding CO2 makes the plants grow better. Answer these then...

Why do I have a measurable pH swing when my tank water is left out for 24 hours?
Why do my fish gasp at night if I leave the CO2 in but they don't when I take it out?

I would say those are both very good indicators of elevated CO2 concentrations. What do YOU think they are evidence of?



> I am not interested in the specific level of CO2 concentration in your tank. I am questioning the role your DIY CO2 setup plays in increasing CO2 concentration.


You agree that my evidence suggests elevated levels of CO2 yet you are questioning that the DIY set-up put it there?How else is the CO2 increasing??? Is there a CO2 fairy that I am unaware of that deposits CO2 into my tank if I am good?

And as for the Dylan quote, whether it was intentional or not, you missed the point... again.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

genEus said:


> lol. How do you know that a CD recording sounds cleaner than a cassette tape? You can a) listen to it and say "yeah, I can definitely hear the difference" or you can b) use expensive equipment to analyze the level of background noise and distortion from analog audio (tape) vs. digital audio (CD).


For most people, downloading whatever itunes sells is enough, but why shouldn't a hobbyist take an interest in audio compression algorithms?




genEus said:


> Another idea. How do you know that one brownie is sweeter than another brownie? You can a) taste the difference, or b) try to scientifically measure the sugar content of each brownie in the lab.


Most of the top ranked restaurants in the world now practice molecular gastronomy. Crazy, huh?




genEus said:


> This entire battle between everyone here and you is that for everyone, a) is enough. For you, unless you can scientifically prove what can be easily observed with a naked eye, you won't be happy.


I want to know why and by how much. In this case, there's an easy way to measure. The fact every single proponent of DIY CO2 patently refuses should raise an eyebrow. If someone told you a certain type of lighting worked really well, but refused to provide any PAR/MOL/Lumen/Efficiency data that is easily obtained, what would you think?




genEus said:


> In the end, this is a hobby that focuses on beauty, nature, and most importantly (and most fun, I think) - experimentation! Sounds like OP's original questions were taken into a completely new direction. The answer to the question "can lush growth be achieved with DIY CO2" should be a resounding YES. And, I'm happy that the OP is going in this direction first, regardless of what he ends up doing in the end.


This hobby means different things to different people, but I agree everyone should experiment and stick with what works for them.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> OK fine forget about the obvious observation that adding CO2 makes the plants grow better. Answer these then...
> 
> Why do I have a measurable pH swing when my tank water is left out for 24 hours?
> Why do my fish gasp at night if I leave the CO2 in but they don't when I take it out?
> ...


I agree. Gasping fish especially is a sign of elevated CO2. Should make for an easy experiment.





tharsis said:


> You agree that my evidence suggests elevated levels of CO2 yet you are questioning that the DIY set-up put it there?How else is the CO2 increasing??? Is there a CO2 fairy that I am unaware of that deposits CO2 into my tank if I am good?


Let's find out. If you have a way to inject that much CO2 into the water column, I think we'd all benefit from it.





tharsis said:


> And as for the Dylan quote, whether it was intentional or not, you missed the point... again.


It's going to keep me up at night.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

LOL ok you have to be trolling at this point, so this will officially be my last post on this subject. 

I have shown both empirical and subjective evidence that I have elevated CO2 levels in my tank. You have agreed that my evidence suggests elevated CO2 levels, yet you disagree that it is due to the addition of 3 x 2L CO2 bottles?

...At this point it is ridiculous to continue.


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

tharsis said:


> LOL ok you have to be trolling at this point, so this will officially be my last post on this subject.
> 
> I have shown both empirical and subjective evidence that I have elevated CO2 levels in my tank. You have agreed that my evidence suggests elevated CO2 levels, yet you disagree that it is due to the addition of 3 x 2L CO2 bottles?
> 
> ...At this point it is ridiculous to continue.


He is a Troll.

Like I stated befor I runn 3 2L glass bottles changing 1 per week. 

I am able to grow "very quikly" Ludwigia Glandulosa, a medium difficulty stem plant in this tank, It is bright red and needs good Co2 in order to do well.


Drop checker with 4 dkh solution and remember thia is a 46 gallon tank! Diy can and does work but you need to set it up right and have a very efficient deffusing method.

First put in,










After one hour it turns dark green,










Two hours after put in tank it turns light yellow/green and stays this way for the week untill I put in another solution at beginning of next week.










Glandulosa,

When I first put it in the tank,










One week later,










two weeks,










Glandulosa dose not grow this fast thias red without good stable Co2 and the right lighting conditions,


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

> Diy can and does work but you need to set it up right and have a very efficient deffusing method.


That is indeed the key, setting up a DIY CO2 system and then having it pass through an air stone won't do much good. To make this efficient on larger tanks it needs to be diffused by a rex grigg or a cerge style inline reactor.

Great looking plant by BTW


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

tharsis said:


> LOL ok you have to be trolling at this point, so this will officially be my last post on this subject.
> 
> I have shown both empirical and subjective evidence that I have elevated CO2 levels in my tank. You have agreed that my evidence suggests elevated CO2 levels, yet you disagree that it is due to the addition of 3 x 2L CO2 bottles?
> 
> ...At this point it is ridiculous to continue.




What you have not shown is empirical evidence that your DIY CO2 setup is capable of raising CO2 concentration from <10ppm to 30+ppm. Posting photos of plants and drop checkers all day long does not change this. Thank you for making it your last post as I agree this is ridiculous.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

The Plantman said:


> He is a Troll.
> 
> Like I stated befor I runn 3 2L glass bottles changing 1 per week.
> 
> I am able to grow "very quikly" Ludwigia Glandulosa, a medium difficulty stem plant in this tank, It is bright red and needs good Co2 in order to do well.



Growing plants is not a measure of CO2 concentration. I know this is a very difficult concept to grasp, but I have hope.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Plantman, I really like how you have set up your DIY system, very well done. We have very similar set-ups, 46 gallon bowfront, 3x2L CO2 bottles with an inline reactor. Do you stop your CO2 at night?

I will probably pop in to your tank thread to avoid feeding the troll


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

tharsis said:


> That is indeed the key, setting up a DIY CO2 system and then having it pass through an air stone won't do much good. To make this efficient on larger tanks it needs to be diffused by a rex grigg or a cerge style inline reactor.
> 
> Great looking plant by BTW


Yes you gotta have an efficient way to get the Co2 into the water or it wont work right whether that is with pressurized co2 or DIY co2.
What I gather from some research on the matter (Running Diy then pressurized) I think the thing plants need most is a constant source of Co2 while they are photosynthesizing. while it may be a challenge I cannot see why it couldn't be done with Diy.


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

tharsis said:


> Plantman, I really like how you have set up your DIY system, very well done. We have very similar set-ups, 46 gallon bowfront, 3x2L CO2 bottles with an inline reactor. Do you stop your CO2 at night?
> 
> I will probably pop in to your tank thread to avoid feeding the troll


No I don't stop it at night. I haven't seen any ill effects on the tank or fish. If I had a pressure system I would have it go off at night, but only to save Co2 and have the supply last longer. 

As for this set-ups Co2 concentrations, I beileve my levels must be in the 30+ range as I run a "5"dkh solution in my drop checker and I still get yellow-green color after 2-2 1/2 hours after refreshing the soultion.


This is a shot of my tank from before I got the Co2 stable by improving just about everything I was doing with it. I started running 3 bottles instead of just 2, created a Rexx style reactor on the filters exhaust and started using glass bottles with brake caliper bleeder valves soldered into the lids. I can replace Co2 hardened hose with ease, no more leaks at the bottles entrance.

More pictures of the set up,

This is from before I got my DIY Co2 right,











This is from after,











Hardware,

Soldered


















I also use plastic valves lubricated with olive oil to make them smoother and halp maintain a solid seal. These also allow me to remove/clean/replace a bottle without disturbing Co2 flow.


















My orignial reactor,










My new one larger one,










What i want to do now is get a bubble counter so I now how many bubbles I get per minute.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

The Plantman said:


> No I don't stop it at night. I haven't seen any ill effects on the tank or fish. If I had a pressure system I would have it go off at night, but only to save Co2 and have the supply last longer.
> 
> As for this set-ups Co2 concentrations, I beileve my levels must be in the 30+ range as I run a "5"dkh solution in my drop checker and I still get yellow-green color after 2-2 1/2 hours after refreshing the soultion.



How can you be at 30+ppm day and night given a constant level of injection? If you're injecting enough CO2 to get to 30ppm during the day, how are you not gassing the fish at night?


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Quesenek said:


> Yes you gotta have an efficient way to get the Co2 into the water or it wont work right whether that is with pressurized co2 or DIY co2.
> What I gather from some research on the matter (Running Diy then pressurized) I think the thing plants need most is a constant source of Co2 while they are photosynthesizing. while it may be a challenge I cannot see why it couldn't be done with Diy.


I agree, and I think the key with maintaining that supply is to have atleast 3 bottles going simultaneously replacing one bottle per week. That way at any given moment you have one that is just starting its production, one that is halfway and one that is nearing the end. It requires a little effort but in reality it takes about 10 minutes to make a new batch so the inconvenience is really minimal.


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

Booger said:


> How can you be at 30+ppm day and night given a constant level of injection? If you're injecting enough CO2 to get to 30ppm during the day, how are you not gassing the fish at night?


I believe the reason is because the surface of the water (in my tank) gasses off far more Co2 then the plants use, when I turn off my Co2, it takes just over 4 hours for the drop checker to turn completely blue (I have run this test twice). I've always found it funny that people think there plants use up so much Co2 that the levels would climb significantly at night! Maybe it depends on set-ups being different? I don’t know. I have very little surface movement, just a slight rippling from the canisters exhaust which is 1 ½ inches below the surface of the water. I’m pretty sure that gassing at the surface takes 10 times or more Co2 out of the tank then the plants use at there peak Co2 consumption. But this really is just a guess. I have tested my tank just before lights on at 12:00PM and just before lights out at 11:00pm. The difference is minimal at most. The drop checker is just a bit more yellow in the morning then it is at lights out.

I’ve been running DIY Co2 for over 6-7 years or so and never gassed fish. I ran 2 two liter bottles on this tank and never gassed them and always had a light green to green-yellow color. Admittedly it was far easier to get high Co2 in this 29 gallon but never the less it is clearly possible to do up to at least 46 gallons if done right.


My old RIP 29,













tharsis said:


> I agree, and I think the key with maintaining that supply is to have atleast 3 bottles going simultaneously replacing one bottle per week. That way at any given moment you have one that is just starting its production, one that is halfway and one that is nearing the end. It requires a little effort but in reality it takes about 10 minutes to make a new batch so the inconvenience is really minimal.



Yes, this is what I do. I get good production for just over 2 1/2 weeks by using tank water, 1 cup sugar, 1/4 teaspoon yeast, 1/8 teaspoon baking soda. Change one per bottle per week and supplement with 1 cap excel per day to assist with stabilizing it.


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