# Breeding: Dario Dario



## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

I am very interested in breeding the Dario Dario Fish.

From what I've read about them the process sounds pretty easy.

Can anyone offer advice on the best way to do this?


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Rearing the fry is harder than breeding itself.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

Chrisinator said:


> Rearing the fry is harder than breeding itself.


Do you have any recommendations on what food to feed the fry? I heard Infusoria/Micro Worms is good, but are both required?

What size Breeding Tank is good/What size tank for rearing the Fry?

Any other advice?


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

I have a 20 long lying around that I may want to use?

Would a 10 gallon be better for breeding?

Any more advice?

This is my first breeding project, so perhaps someone has a suggestion for other species I may want to try breeding first?


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## Adri. (Sep 6, 2012)

I'm interested in what people have to say about this, since I'm getting a male and two female Dario Dario soon.


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## theshadybird (Sep 25, 2012)

Ditto.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I'd imagine raising Dario fry would be a lot like raising betta fry. Infusoria, bbs, then grindal worms. You can use Microworms or bbs when they're big enough.

I just bought 3 pairs myself. I'm waiting for the females to get fat..


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## ducky14523 (Aug 29, 2011)

This is a fish i'd try in container ponds during the warmer months. From what i've read they havve adecent temperature range and what not. I'm going to try it next spring. I usually do paradise fish and this year i added drape fin barbs to the selection. I got 25 or so good sized paradise fry and 10 or so drape fin fry of good size with zero spot feeding of the fry. I did feed the adults every three days once i noticed fry. The natural prey items that appear in the ponds makes keeping micro predators happy. This year i am trying to keep a handful of leaves and pond water on the window sill to see what grows. It's an easy way to grow copepods but i wonder if they might be too large of prey items for dario? Certainly what lives on decaying leaves should be small enough.


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## DBlauj (Apr 17, 2012)

Awesome little fish but let me warn you that they are really picky about their food. I had four males and was able to grab some juvies from a fella who was getting out of the hobby. The males took to frozen brine shrimp and blood worms about two weeks after I got em. Other than that the juvies only ate live foods which I only had BBS. The fella I got them from said java moss was the trick to breeding them and he had em in what I believe was a 10g. Females are the ones that are hard to come by because they lack color so importers or LFS don't really care for them. I gave them up because it took a really long time for the juvies to grow so I could breed the females with my older males. Juvies were about seven months and the juvie males were showing just a little color. Took longer than I would have wanted so I sold em all. Really cool fish but I suggest a species only tank cause the will struggle for food against other fish. GL and sorry for the long post.


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## theshadybird (Sep 25, 2012)

Yup yup. I'm not especially planning to breed, just keep them, but their pickiness about food is why I'm planning to keep them only with some Hara Jerdoni, which has similar food needs. I've heard people have good results from Grindal and White worms, which are pretty easy to grow, as well as Daphnia, black worms, and blood worms. Msjinkzd, who's a really nice dealer of D. Dario, has had luck with some frozen foods as well. 

Not impossible to feed, but definitely tricky!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

They take grindals well and grindals are easy to raise too unlike whiteworms.


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## theshadybird (Sep 25, 2012)

Oooh, are whiteworms harder to grow? I've never kept live foods, only researched. Grindals were going to be my choice since they are smaller, and D. Dario are teeeny fish, as are the Hara Jerdoni. 
So, what are the differences in care between Grindal and White? :curious:


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Whiteworms are bigger and only breed well in cold temperature like 50F. People raise them in a spare fridge. Grindals' population can grow in room temperature.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Grindal Worms are definitely waaaay easier to grow.

Container of moist dirt with air holes poked in the top, occasionally add fish food or a crushed chuck of dog food and bam, population thrives.

I have containers in several cabinets and closets and my better half is constantly freaking out over them.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I use coconut fiber in the reptile section. And make a .5 inch hole in the lid and stuff it with filter floss or cotton balls so insects can't get in. You might have to deal with little ticks that hitch-hike with the worms. Don't overfeed and they wont be too annoying.

I keep 4 containers in the aquarium stand so not to freak anybody out.


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## theshadybird (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks! Good info to be on a D. Dario thread, to be sure! I know I'm glad to know this!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Oops, +1 on stuffing filter floss or cotton in the holes you poke in the container. Absolutely do that.

Not only will you get flies? You'll maybe have Grindals crawling out if your container is shallow or the walls of the container are moist. (This is why I get in trouble)

For me, it's not so much the getting in trouble part but the problem of worms congregating on top of the container and then drying to a crisp.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

mistergreen said:


> I'd imagine raising Dario fry would be a lot like raising betta fry. Infusoria, bbs, then grindal worms. You can use Microworms or bbs when they're big enough.
> 
> I just bought 3 pairs myself. I'm waiting for the females to get fat..


Infusoria when they're their smallest? Then BBS/Grindal Worms when they are larger?

Do you know if BBS is required, because I was hoping to avoid hatching those.



ducky14523 said:


> This is a fish i'd try in container ponds during the warmer months. From what i've read they havve adecent temperature range and what not. I'm going to try it next spring. I usually do paradise fish and this year i added drape fin barbs to the selection. I got 25 or so good sized paradise fry and 10 or so drape fin fry of good size with zero spot feeding of the fry. I did feed the adults every three days once i noticed fry. The natural prey items that appear in the ponds makes keeping micro predators happy. This year i am trying to keep a handful of leaves and pond water on the window sill to see what grows. It's an easy way to grow copepods but i wonder if they might be too large of prey items for dario? Certainly what lives on decaying leaves should be small enough.


What did you feed the adults?

Do you have details of your setup? Plants, pumps, container used, shady area/well lit area, etc?

Sounds really interesting and probably something I would enjoy doing.

I already have a pot w/semi aquatic plants and some goldfish that live in there, so maybe I wouldn't even need to set anything new up (I'd just have to say goodbye to my goldfish).



DBlauj said:


> Awesome little fish but let me warn you that they are really picky about their food. I had four males and was able to grab some juvies from a fella who was getting out of the hobby. The males took to frozen brine shrimp and blood worms about two weeks after I got em. Other than that the juvies only ate live foods which I only had BBS. The fella I got them from said java moss was the trick to breeding them and he had em in what I believe was a 10g. Females are the ones that are hard to come by because they lack color so importers or LFS don't really care for them. I gave them up because it took a really long time for the juvies to grow so I could breed the females with my older males. Juvies were about seven months and the juvie males were showing just a little color. Took longer than I would have wanted so I sold em all. Really cool fish but I suggest a species only tank cause the will struggle for food against other fish. GL and sorry for the long post.


Thanks for the tips. I'll probably only be doing this if I can get ones that are already on frozen. There's too many other species I could choose from to breed that don't require live food (especially since this is my first attempt).

Any sources you know of where I can get guaranteed females and that are eating frozen?



theshadybird said:


> Yup yup. I'm not especially planning to breed, just keep them, but their pickiness about food is why I'm planning to keep them only with some Hara Jerdoni, which has similar food needs. I've heard people have good results from Grindal and White worms, which are pretty easy to grow, as well as Daphnia, black worms, and blood worms. Msjinkzd, who's a really nice dealer of D. Dario, has had luck with some frozen foods as well.
> 
> Not impossible to feed, but definitely tricky!


Those Hara Jerdoni are really cool 

I may have to PM Msjinkzd, thanks.



somewhatshocked said:


> Grindal Worms are definitely waaaay easier to grow.
> 
> Container of moist dirt with air holes poked in the top, occasionally add fish food or a crushed chuck of dog food and bam, population thrives.
> 
> I have containers in several cabinets and closets and my better half is constantly freaking out over them.


Sounds easy, I'll do some googling and learn a little more.



mistergreen said:


> I use coconut fiber in the reptile section. And make a .5 inch hole in the lid and stuff it with filter floss or cotton balls so insects can't get in. You might have to deal with little ticks that hitch-hike with the worms. Don't overfeed and they wont be too annoying.
> 
> I keep 4 containers in the aquarium stand so not to freak anybody out.


Why such a large hole?

Why not make pin sized hole all over the container?

Do you know the specific species of tick/other hitchhikers?

I'm a little worried about having unknown insects in my house.



somewhatshocked said:


> Oops, +1 on stuffing filter floss or cotton in the holes you poke in the container. Absolutely do that.
> 
> Not only will you get flies? You'll maybe have Grindals crawling out if your container is shallow or the walls of the container are moist. (This is why I get in trouble)
> 
> For me, it's not so much the getting in trouble part but the problem of worms congregating on top of the container and then drying to a crisp.


Hitchhiking flies?

I need someway to prevent these hitchhikers from getting out and infesting my home or the rest of my family won't approve of this project :icon_sad:

I have a shed in the backyard and room in my garage (I keep crickets in the garage for my Chameleon) so either of those would work.

But, how warm do the worms need to be?

Would either of these places work for them?

The other thing I was thinking is keeping them in an airtight lock box (stored in a cabinet) and only opening it up outside.

I would think they don't consume that much oxygen, so I could probably leave them in there for a week or two no sweat?

Thanks for all the advice everyone, I appreciate it :smile:


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

> Infusoria when they're their smallest? Then BBS/Grindal Worms when they are larger?


yes
They sell frozen daphnia and BBS so you don't have to hatch them.



> Why not make pin sized hole all over the container?


pin holes are actual large enough for the worms to get out and fruit flies to get in.



> Do you know the specific species of tick/other hitchhikers?


Don't worry about these. They're actually mites (not ticks) that can only live in that dark damp environment. I've manage to get rid of all of them by not feeding for a month and dusting a little diatomaceous earth around. The majority of the worms survived.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

mistergreen said:


> yes
> They sell frozen daphnia and BBS so you don't have to hatch them.
> 
> 
> ...


They will eat frozen Baby Brine Shrimp and Daphnia?

In that case, could I feed something like Cyclop-Eeze or another small frozen food? I thought the fry needed live food?

What size container do you recommend for the Grindals?

Thank you for the reassurance, however I still would rather avoid the bug issue altogether. What are your thoughts on keeping the cultures in an air tight container and only opening them outside?

Would storage of the cultures in a Shed or my Garage work?

Thanks- Wizzy


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

You live in California so the shed should be fine. Plug the ventilation holes with cotton balls. Air tight is not good.


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## theshadybird (Sep 25, 2012)

Theoretically, would a bare bottom ten or 15 gallon with a good amount of Java Moss over the bottom be sufficient, if you were wanting to raise the fry separate? 

Here's a paragraph on the subject from Seriously Fish:


> Post-spawning the female is ejected and the male takes sole responsibility for the territory. If you want to maximise the numbers of fry raised now is the time to either remove the medium to a container containing water from the spawning tank or the adults as the fry will be preyed upon once hatched. The incubation period is 2-3 days after which the fry may need up to a week to fully absorb the yolk sac. They are very small indeed and will require an infusoria-type diet until large enough to accept microworm and/or Artemia nauplii.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

mistergreen said:


> You live in California so the shed should be fine. Plug the ventilation holes with cotton balls. Air tight is not good.


Even for short periods of time?

What would make it not good?



theshadybird said:


> Theoretically, would a bare bottom ten or 15 gallon with a good amount of Java Moss over the bottom be sufficient, if you were wanting to raise the fry separate?
> 
> Here's a paragraph on the subject from Seriously Fish:


Are you saying without other food supplies?

Just Microorganisms in Java Moss for food?


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

I just acquired a pair of Dario Dario and I think they have laid eggs.

Does anyone have pictures of what the eggs look like so I can confirm?

More importantly though, I need help on feeding the adult fish.

I added quite a few frozen foods (brine shrimp, blood worms, a mixture of filter feeder foods (including golden pearls), and cyclopeeze to (maybe) no avail.

The food definitely excited their senses and both adults were swimming around my pico, but I only saw the male snap a couple times and I don't know if they really ate anything.

The store I purchased them from was feeding live bloodworms.

What foods should I buy to feed them?


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## theshadybird (Sep 25, 2012)

I can't help you with the pic of the eggs, but as for foods, I've heard of people having lots of success with live bloodworms as well as grindal worms and white worms. I think the consensus was that Grindal worms were the easiest to take care of. 
And post pictures!!!!! I would LOVE to see them!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Wizzy said:


> I just acquired a pair of Dario Dario and I think they have laid eggs.
> 
> Does anyone have pictures of what the eggs look like so I can confirm?
> 
> ...


Pictures from seriouslyfish
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/dario-dario-CSC_3882.JPG


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks guys. Fortunately I think my problems are solved.

I know for sure that at least the male ate a piece of frozen blood worm, brine shrimp, and golden pearls (not sure if it was golden pearls or something else from the mixture of filter foods I fed, but he ate it) and I assume the female also did this, but I can't be sure.

Do you guys think I need to also get live grindal worms or is frozen sufficient?

How often should I feed these guys?

Unfortunately, I think the "eggs" are just algae lol. It's hard to be sure, but if they don't hatch tomorrow they probably aren't eggs. Also, the mass is solid and milky white and doesn't match the picture you provided.

The last picture shows what I thought was possibly eggs. Its attached to the underneath of the driftwood.

Here's some phone pictures (I'll try and whip out the "nice" camera sometime and show the forum some quality photos).


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

Bump for how often I should feed these guys?

Do I need to get live food (i.e. grindal worms) for them or is frozen as good/better for them nutritionally?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

both. grow daphnia if you can.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

mistergreen said:


> both. grow daphnia if you can.


But what is the nutritional value of each comparatively?

Is getting them on an all frozen diet going to be healthiest or is live food a required nutritional staple?

Is one type of food going to give them something that the other won't?


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## Basilisk (Mar 1, 2004)

Wizzy said:


> But what is the nutritional value of each comparatively?
> 
> Is getting them on an all frozen diet going to be healthiest or is live food a required nutritional staple?
> 
> Is one type of food going to give them something that the other won't?


I can help you on the first question.

http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm

If you PM me your e-mail address I can send you an article with better comparative data.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

Basilisk said:


> I can help you on the first question.
> 
> http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm
> 
> If you PM me your e-mail address I can send you an article with better comparative data.


Thank you however I'm hesitant to give out my email address.

Why do you need it?

Could you pm me or post it in this thread instead?
-----

On another note, I think I may just get a culture of worms started regardless.

I'll need them anyway for raising the fry.

So, I was looking at micro worms and was wondering if those would be better?

They seem like the right size for the Dario Dario Adults as well as their fry.

What temperatures do they do well in and wheres the best place to acquire a clean culture (without pests)?

Could I culture them in my garage?

Recommended container?

Other tips?


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

So, I think I've got them consistently eating dry foods.

Pretty cool eh?

Anyway, I think I want to go micro worms for food since I can use it for the fry as well.

Anyone know if I have to also use infusoria or will micro worms be small enough for all the stages of Dario Dario?


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

bump


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## theshadybird (Sep 25, 2012)

It's awesome they're eating dry foods! Wish I could help you with the food conundrum, but alas I cannot ^^ As for fry foods, Seriously Fish is where I go for my fishy questions. Scroll down to the reproduction part and there's a suggestion to use infusoria.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

What dry food are they eating?
Mine just spits them out. They're too spoiled on grindals and frozen daphnia 7 brine shrimps.

The girls in my batch are getting round. We'll see what they'll do next. I have a spare 5G tank running just in case.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

where did you find the females?


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

theshadybird said:


> It's awesome they're eating dry foods! Wish I could help you with the food conundrum, but alas I cannot ^^ As for fry foods, Seriously Fish is where I go for my fishy questions. Scroll down to the reproduction part and there's a suggestion to use infusoria.


Thanks, I'll probably end up getting micro worms and making some infusoria when the time comes for babies.



mistergreen said:


> What dry food are they eating?
> Mine just spits them out. They're too spoiled on grindals and frozen daphnia 7 brine shrimps.
> 
> The girls in my batch are getting round. We'll see what they'll do next. I have a spare 5G tank running just in case.


I feed them this 

http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.p...category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=58

Good Luck with your breeding venture 



Couesfanatic said:


> where did you find the females?


LFS


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

what about you mistergreen?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Couesfanatic said:


> what about you mistergreen?


oh, from msjinkzd


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

cool,thanks both of you.

I just picked up a male, used to have one a few years back. Going to start a new tank with moss to try for some fry when I can find a female.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Check the wet spot. They're up in your area.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Thats where I got the male from. They don't have any females right now.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone


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## Basilisk (Mar 1, 2004)

Wizzy said:


> Thank you however I'm hesitant to give out my email address.
> 
> Why do you need it?
> 
> Could you pm me or post it in this thread instead?


PM sent.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

Basilisk said:


> PM sent.


Thanks


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

Wizzy said:


> Thanks


So, if I want to buy worms (grindal or micro) where do I buy them?

Any more opinions on which one I should get?

I don't really want to raise more than 1 type.


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## theshadybird (Sep 25, 2012)

There are some cheap auctions for both on AquaBid :]


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Wizzy said:


> So, if I want to buy worms (grindal or micro) where do I buy them?
> 
> Any more opinions on which one I should get?
> 
> I don't really want to raise more than 1 type.


Post a WTB in the SnS. I have some grindals for you but I wouldn't ship them in this weather unless it's overnight with heat pads. The cost would be too much. 

Check if anybody close by in your state who have them.


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## Wizzy (Aug 27, 2011)

theshadybird said:


> There are some cheap auctions for both on AquaBid :]


I will look, but I worry about quality when I bid on those sites.

My biggest worry is getting a contaminated culture.

Have you ever purchased these worms before?



mistergreen said:


> Post a WTB in the SnS. I have some grindals for you but I wouldn't ship them in this weather unless it's overnight with heat pads. The cost would be too much.
> 
> Check if anybody close by in your state who have them.


I will check my local Craigslist :smile:

I feel like such a Noob, but I don't know what the SnS is?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

SnS is the Swap n Shop. You probably won't find it in Craigslist.

Post a Wanted To Buy here 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=156

or Do it in the California sub forum.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39


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## Basilisk (Mar 1, 2004)

Wizzy said:


> My biggest worry is getting a contaminated culture.


It's not really like a microbial culture in a petri dish, it's just worms on peat or scrub pad.

I'd say all cultures are already 'contaminated 'with fungi, and older, maybe neglected ones can show fungi in larger colonies. Sometimes springtails appear. The common practice of starting new cultures every 2-4 weeks makes it much less of a problem.


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## minicrazy592 (Apr 1, 2010)

How does one tell the difference between the male and female? My LFS just got in a whole bunch of these little buggers and I went home with two.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

minicrazy592 said:


> How does one tell the difference between the male and female? My LFS just got in a whole bunch of these little buggers and I went home with two.


Females are largely colorless. You most likely purchased two males, as they're the most desirable for sale 


MABJ's iDevice used for this message


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## DBlauj (Apr 17, 2012)

LFS rarely have females. If your two lil guys look like the picture then they are both males. Like MABJ said, females are dull in color and are hard to tell apart unless they are almost adults.


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## minicrazy592 (Apr 1, 2010)

Well that's a shame. Here's another pic of the same one. I don't get to show off pics of my fish anywhere else, so I hope you guys will indulge me.


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## Basilisk (Mar 1, 2004)

minicrazy592 said:


> Well that's a shame. Here's another pic of the same one. I don't get to show off pics of my fish anywhere else, so I hope you guys will indulge me.



How's this for indulgence?

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75247


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## DBlauj (Apr 17, 2012)

Very nice pics.


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## DBlauj (Apr 17, 2012)

Guys anyone wanting a female there is a fella selling a pair in the SNS section right now!! I can vouch for this guys as I picked up 20 fry from him about 4 months ago. Unfortunately they took longer than I expected to mature so I gave some away and sold the rest. Here is your chance at that elusive FEMALE BADIS!!! Sorry didn't mean to give the guy some free pub for his sale lol.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

picked this one up tonight. more pics in my journal.


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