# Ram breathing heavy



## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

I had a very similar issue with my female. I did add some stress to her by moving her into another tank but other than that, everything else was the same. I used water from the old tank, plants from the old tank and gravel from an established tank. Unfortunately after a couple days she lost color and died. She was eating fine one days and then the next she stopped eating. Like you all my water tests came out just fine. Sorry I don't have any advice for you but hopefully everything works out ok.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

She may have laid eggs somewhere and the male has chased her off.
I have several pair that once eggs are laid I need to remove the female and give her a little extra TLC.
It is ram breeding season if such a thing exist?They know more then us!
I don't see her ovipositor but she looks like some of my girls after laying eggs.
Watch to see if she is hiding from the male,it will clear to see once he sees her.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

I've seen them spawn several times and this is nothing like that. During those situations, they usually take turns patrolling. At some point, every single time, they get in a fight and only one guards them while the other isn't welcome in any way. He's swimming around foraging for food, pecking at wood, pecking at the airstone, etc. When he sees her, he swims up next to her and shows his fins but she swims a few inches away from him and he'll continue foraging the tank while she stays in the corner.

This was taken a few minutes ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6_C8nJmdGI


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Don't know what else to do for her.  She has clean water, lights out and 3 airstones in the tank. I put some frozen bloodworms right in front of her face and she looked interested but just didn't bite. She even guarded it and acted territorial when the Neons came to get some, pecking at them and running them off. After a minute, she just let them have it.

It's so bizarre that yesterday they chose their spawn point and were cleaning the area. Any fish that got near it was quickly chased away. They both ate bloodworms and the little nugget of Omega One Veggie Round last night. Then suddenly this morning she's hiding, not eating, and is no longer sociable with the male. The left gill also looks a little inflammed but what could have caused it is beyond me. There was no ammonia this morning and she's the only fish of 13 that isn't acting normal.


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## iamtechno (Sep 23, 2013)

This is one fish that people have more problems with than any other fish and its due to poor breeding practices and terrible genetics. These fish more than most others can be very delicate as the genetics you'll get from most places are crap leading to these fish not living more than a year or so and having a number of other problems. Never buy these fish from Petco/Petsmart as they have some of the worst around. You'll see a number of these threads involving GBR and them dying or getting sick for no apparent reason. Well, there is a reason and there it is. The difficult thing is I have even gotten what I thought were "good" GBR from a good LFS that turned out to be crap so with these little guys it can be tough. I'm not trying to turn anyone off to these fish as they are great little guys but make sure you get good stock from a trusted source. Best of luck to your little gal.


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

Looks like gill flukes
Fluke pattern for Rams... 

fish begins breathing fast, then fish swims off to be alone somewhere hidden, then fish sits at the bottom of tank, then fish is found at the surface, then fish dies. 

This is a pretty typical pattern of Ram death by Flukes.


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## iamtechno (Sep 23, 2013)

Yeah that could be but its typically brought on by something, poor water or stress or something else which it doesn't sound like there was so its hard to say. I just know GBR are notorious for having crap genetics leading to problems just like this which makes people think they did something wrong or that Rams are bad fish which most likely neither are the case.


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

Could be from frozen or live foods or hosts like snails.
Maybe even some new fish that were added recently 
It`s a tough call and I agree with you that more people have problems with rams than any other fish or maybe its cuz so many ppl keep them so we hear about there problems more often.
It`s truly a great little fish though !


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

I treated this tank with PraziPro a couple months ago, and no new fish have gone in since. Stress more than likely, as the 55g was tore down and had substrate replaced. They were staying in a 20g long holding tank before going back to the 55g. Also, these guys were shipped directly from a breeder in California that doesn't expose his fish to inbreeding or hormone injection. The below video shows how good she looks when they're comfortable. This was before the tear down, btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvnP1m6_1Q0

So I turned the light off in the tank around 5pm to alleviate any unwanted stress. After a while, I peaked in there and noticed she had moved to the opposite end of the tank and was pecking at the sand for the first time. Shortly after, I noticed she was straining (momentarily clamped dorsal and caudal fin) to push a big poo out. Each time I checked the tank, she was in a different spot so I took that as a positive sign. I checked around 10pm and noticed another really large poo near where she was resting. I don't know if it's constipation, stress, or a combination of both. Really hoping she bounces back quick.


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## iamtechno (Sep 23, 2013)

Well thats a bummer. Sounds like you got good stock so might just have to chalk it up to bad luck. Hopefully she is looking a little better. Good luck to you


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

This morning she has her color back and is eating frozen brine shrimp. When the male approaches her, she shows full finnage and flashes her colors so looks like we're in the clear.  Not sure what yesterday was about but in the ~8 months i've owned these fish, neither have ever rejected food and showed listless/hiding behavior before. Even while guarding fry, they always ate. I'm just glad she's okay.

Taken a few minutes ago:


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

Maybe they were on a break and she was depressed and then he couldn't find anyone else so they started talking again. Or maybe she pooped on the floor and then he mistook it for food and he got mad about it and then there was some domestic tank violence and she had no place to go but sulk in the corner of the tank and threatened him that she wasn't going to eat until he apologized.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

FewestKitten896 said:


> Maybe they were on a break and she was depressed and then he couldn't find anyone else so they started talking again. Or maybe she pooped on the floor and then he mistook it for food and he got mad about it and then there was some domestic tank violence and she had no place to go but sulk in the corner of the tank and threatened him that she wasn't going to eat until he apologized.


Haha, something like that.  The breeder I bought them from fed them a mixture of flake, frozen and live foods when they were fry. Once they arrived, they were too small for pellets and didn't recognize them as food. They went bananas for New Life Spectrum H2O flake though, so they've been on that since they were 5 months old. Now that the male is pushing 3 inches I felt they should be on a pellet diet. I'm not used to feeding the NLS Cichlid pellets so I guess I overfed and it bound her up good. Each poop last night was half the size of a popcorn kernel which is scary for such a small fish. I'm just going to have to feed sparingly and not spoil them so much.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Spirulina is said to help with digestive process and help with immune system.
I believe the new life spectrum has spirulina as well as lot's of other good stuff.
Are you still offering the NLS flake?
Are you using the NLS pellet's for small fish?


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

roadmaster said:


> Spirulina is said to help with digestive process and help with immune system.
> I believe the new life spectrum has spirulina as well as lot's of other good stuff.
> Are you still offering the NLS flake?
> Are you using the NLS pellet's for small fish?


I have replaced the flake with pellets. The tetras get NLS small fish formula (0.5mm) and the Rams get NLS Cichlid formula (1mm). This is staple, with various frozen foods offered on the weekend (daphnia for regularity, brine shrimp and blood worms). Once or twice a week I also throw in a tiny nugget of Omega One Veggie Round which is loaded with spirulina. They are beyond spoiled as far as diet goes, I think I just got a little overzealous in my feeding the day before last.


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

beautiful fish, I'm glad she's doing better!


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Culprit said:


> beautiful fish, I'm glad she's doing better!


Thanks, i'm very relieved that she's okay.


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