# Any idea how fast my crypts will grow?



## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

I have a few cryptocoryne wendtii that I got last week. I have T5HO 2x 39W on my 30 gal (36''L x 16''H x 12'' W). I'm dosing with Flourish Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorus, Complete, and Excel, pressurized CO2 at about 1.5 bps. I know crypts are slower growing, but how much faster will they grow under high light? I don't expect my anubias nana to grow very fast, but I was wondering if my crypts would fill in faster under high light.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I'd offer that your better off not using Excel. Some of us feel it may harm crypts. Wendtii is an easier crypt. I should grow well for you.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Typically you wont notice a difference in the speed of crypt growth under high light. It tend to grow thicker plants with shorter petioles and slightly different leaves but I wouldnt really say they grow faster.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

DogFish said:


> I'd offer that your better off not using Excel. Some of us feel it may harm crypts. Wendtii is an easier crypt. I should grow well for you.


Just curious, but how does excel harm the crypts?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

In a Crypt Becketti only grow out tank, they seems to just stop growing. I had C. Keei in two tanks sub & emerged. The Sub tank just disintegrated yet other plants did o.k.
i also lost all my java fern leaves and new ones grew back mutated.

I stopped using Excell, Flushed the tanks with massive water changes. Haven't had those issues since. No other changes, replacement crypts do well. Not seeing any lack of grow without Excell.

Here's the stunted C. Becketti now after replanting in another tank NO Excell used now:



















When I transplanted the largest was as big as the smallest in the 2nd pic.

Today (2mos later)most of them are taller that the ones in the middle of pic #2

I have C. Becketti that's almost 13" tall, low-med light, no frets, NO excell, no CO2. There's 4 Ceylon Combtails & 3 Zipper loaches in the 40gl tank with them.


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## cookymonster760 (Apr 30, 2011)

i believe i heard speedie say that it melts them


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

Hmm. Well I can try stopping excel and see how it does. Weird how it only affects the some plants.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Call me a chem nerd, but I believe the chemical formula for usable carbon in CO2 has a much lower bond strength so it's easier to separate for plants and add to existing compounds. It is also a more simple molecule which usually has a better ability to form larger compounds known in this case photosyntehtic intermediates.

On the other hand, excel has a few more "complex" compounds that aren't named, of course. My guess is that *some* plants such as some crypts don't the ability necessary to adjust to these changes. I could be completely wrong, but I've noticed the same. I have a feeling it's simply biology and chemistry at work.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

fishykid1 said:


> Call me a chem nerd, but I believe the chemical formula for usable carbon in CO2 has a much lower bond strength so it's easier to separate for plants and add to existing compounds. It is also a more simple molecule which usually has a better ability to form larger compounds known in this case photosyntehtic intermediates.
> 
> On the other hand, excel has a few more "complex" compounds that aren't named, of course. My guess is that *some* plants such as some crypts don't the ability necessary to adjust to these changes. I could be completely wrong, but I've noticed the same. I have a feeling it's simply biology and chemistry at work.


What's funny is I understand every bit of that. I did my B.S. in biochemistry and molecular biology. I guess that explanation would make sense.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

They grow pretty fast with CO2 and ferts, but not super fast like some stems do. Stems grow inches per week while crypts grow some new leaves every week and anubius grow one leaf per week depending on the starting size of the plant and number of rhizome growing points.


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## DesmondTheMoonBear (Dec 19, 2011)

My crypts (wendtii varieties) put out several new leaves a week, but it takes a while for the leaves to get very big. Maybe a month(?) for a 2.5 inch leaf.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks a lot for all the info! i just didn't know what to expect from them. My stem plants have grown super fast and my vesuvius puts out at least a couple new leaves a week but I've never had crypts before.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Growing slower has it's advantages. Imagine only mowing your grass once every other month whether it needs it or not.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

fishykid1 said:


> ... It is also a more simple molecule which usually has a better ability to form larger compounds known in this case photosyntehtic intermediates.
> ...


Did you just take that off the SeaChem website??? :eek5: :biggrin:

If there is a causal effect involving the untimely death of my Rare crypts due to Excell I'd guess this is the reason:

"Glutaraldehyde is an antimicrobial, bactericide, fungicide, and virucide, commonly used to sterilize medical instruments. It is also used as an embalming fluid, as an ingredient in Anti-Freeze, an antibacterial agent in cooling towers, a leather tanning agent, a biocide in water treatment, a sanitary solution for portable toilets, and is used to sterilize ballast tanks in ships moving from one water source to another (to kill off pathogens and critters that may be transferred in the tanks from one water way to another).

Glutaraldehyde is also an algaecide."

- http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/equipment/114-buyer-beaware-seachem-excel.html


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Yuppers. We use it at our hospital to sterilize surgical instruments that can't be autoclaved such as bronchoscopes and endoscopes.

Real nasty stuff if you read the MSDS sheets.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

DogFish said:


> Did you just take that off the SeaChem website??? :eek5: :biggrin:


Actually no. We had gone over this unit this past 2 weeks and that's what my organic chemistry text/professor uses. photosynthetic intermediates are the compounds that plants are able to use in their process to create the energy (sugars) that plants need. I'm still not convinced that Crypts and some other species can change it but I don't have a lab to test it unfortunately.

I had done research in the past (few months ago) for seachem excel having compounds that weren't equivalent to the CO2. I could never find the exact compounds in the excel :angryfire. Otherwise I probably could have made it myself. 

EDIT: Just looked at the seachem site out of curiosity... lol :hihi: What bothers me is after looking at that more is that "excel also aids in reducing iron Fe3+ in to ferrous iron Fe2+)" <-- was taken from the site. Interesting stuff.


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## DerekFF (May 24, 2011)

The "carbon" in excel and the "carbon" from CO2 arent even comparable lol

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

DerekFF said:


> The "carbon" in excel and the "carbon" from CO2 arent even comparable lol
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


I understand that. But obviously Seachem won't open it up to the public. Co2 is a simple molecule.


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## amcoffeegirl (May 26, 2009)

I use excel with my crypts and they dont melt maybe in a new tank. Ive grown them the same with or without excel. the excel ones are fuller and bigger but that may also be the light on that tank helping with that.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I did 2x the daily dose for a week and no crypt issues in my tank. Didn't seem to hurt any algae either


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