# Assembling a CO2 regulator



## Dalban (Nov 21, 2004)

BTW, any welding place will carry the CO2 inlet fitting (which is properly called a nipple). Should cost about $5-6 -- and they'll probably put it on the regulator for you if you bring it in.

If you have a regulator that has already has an Argon/Nitro/Air nipple (looks like it in your case), then the corresponding nut is the same as the CGA 320 nut, so you can just reuse what you already have.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

So, I already wasted about $5-6, buying the nipple with the nut online. That makes my current error rate 20% - one bad purchasing decision out of 5. Not a good sign:icon_redf


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

This is nothing short of a miracle: I purchased the regulator on Ebay yesterday, and it arrived today! It is everything I thought it was, a professional, lab quality, two stage regulator, a monster when viewed alongside the Milwaukee regulator. Now I wonder if the weight of this thing will tip the CO2 tank over!


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

Hmm looks suspiciously like my matheson 3810 SS except in brass.








yes i know the solenoid is backwards in this pic


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I thought it was unlikely that Air Products would be making regulators like this, but nothing I could find identified who did make it. It looks like Matheson is the one. How does yours work? It is a piston type regulator instead of a diaphragm type, so it should be very rugged and reliable, based on my experience from years ago when I worked a lot with regulators.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Hey Hoppy, Not sure about the perspective from the camera, but that does look like a monster. I have a nice 20lb CO2 tank that looks like it would fit on nicely.


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

no its not piston, the product sheet says "High-purity 316 stainless steel diaphragm", seals metal to metal with teflon seats so it should last a very long time, i ve only been running it for a week with the only problem i had was solenoid backwards and only holding back about 10psi, well that and it wants to tip over my tiny 5lb tank. The threads on the front are for panel mount, delivery gauge is vac-0-60 wich is just about ideal for this purpose. still looking for an extreme resolution needle valve, have a crummy clippard on there and use the reg to dial it.


top view, im almost 100% certain looking at your pic and the one on the auction its either a matheson or matheson are also rebadges.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Today the CGA320 nipple and the pressure gage arrived by mail. A trip to the Ace Hardware store let me get an outlet hose barb with 1/4 NPT male end on it to match the regulator. So, I assembled the regulator half of the project today:
The main parts:









And, the assembly, using pipe dope as shown except on the gage, which just wouldn't tighten to the right position with dope, and had to be done with teflon tape:









Before the end of next week I will have the needle valve and hose barb fittings for it.

Total cost: For the regulator - $52.95, and for the needle valve - $40.76, for a grand total of $93.71. If the regulator works well, this will be a bargain for a two stage, high quality regulator assembly.


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

definatly a bargain, dual stage realy is the propper setup for this application


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

I sure am pleased that folks like dual stage regulators.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Hoppy, where did you order your 320 mount from? Trying to find one in SS or Nickel finish.

Craig


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I got my CGA320 nipple from http://shop.vendio.com/supplyndemand. I was looking for low price, not appearance, so I didn't try for a plated one. This one is shorter than usual, which should be an advantage in making the regulator/tank assembly more stable, and less likely to tip over from the regulator weight.


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## houstonhobby (Dec 12, 2008)

Let me just go ahead and reveal my ignorance. Could someone define the difference between a single and a dual stage regulator?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

http://www.scottecatalog.com/scottt...a7f5c80b3c5a399e8525694a0053a98b?OpenDocument

http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200108/msg00348.html


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

houstonhobby said:


> Let me just go ahead and reveal my ignorance. Could someone define the difference between a single and a dual stage regulator?



All you need to know is that you won't get that end of tank c02 dump with a dual stage vs a single stage regulator. This is where, just when your c02 is almost empty there is an influx of a huge amount of c02 into the tank. This may not harm the plants but your fish could end up SOL. I have a single stage regulator and 2 c02 tanks. I let the c02 go as low as possible without completely hitting rock bottom and replace it. I know that this is a waste of c02 and I should get a dual stage regulator(cannot afford one right now and am not much of a DIY person) so I would rather waste c02 than end up killing a bunch of fish.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hello All,

I want to trade in my crappy Red Sea Deluxe Co2 system for something else and when I do things I like to go all out with the best alternatives that I can get for the money (on a budget of course). I have read the benefits of the two stage regulators here and want to put one together for myself. I have been on ebay and do not see any that have the cga-320 connection off the bat so I saw this and wanted your opinion on whether it'd be a smart move to go for it.

Here are the specs: 

Western Enterprises Medical Grade Two Stage Regulator, model M2-346-PG, max inlet pressure 3000PSIG with a CGA-346 connection. Outlet pressure 0-100 PSIG.

I know this thread belongs to someone else's project but thought it was the most relevant to my question considering it is still in its early stages of progress and my question might help those that are in doubt.

Thanks!
-core212


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

The CGA-346 fitting is for oxygen. You'll probably be hard pressed to find a CGA-346 -> CGA-320 adapter/fitting.

Try to find a M2-320-PG which has the correct connections for CO2.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

I would be able to find a CGA-580 -> CGA-320 fitting/nipple though correct?

edit:

reason i ask is because there is someone selling one on CL here by me. Here are the specs: https://new.fishersci.com/wps/portal/!ut/p/c1/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3iTQCdLP3MPIwN_U39TAyMvP39DZyNvQ38LM6B8pFm8n79RqJuJp6GhhZmroYGRmYeJk0-Yp4G7izEB3cGpefrhIDvxmwGSN8ABHA30_Tzyc1P1C3IjKjx1HRUB-i8U3Q!!/dl2/d1/L0lDU0lKSWdra2trIS9JSFJBQUlpQ2dBek15cXhtL1lCSkoxTkExTkk1MC04MXcvN180UUI5TjdIMjAwUjJFMDJGVFZOR1BHMzBWMi9zYS5Qb3J0bGV0TkFWQWN0aW9u/?LBCID=18...&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fprodwcsserver%3A9060%2Fwebapp%2Fwcs%2Fstores%2Fservlet%2FFisherItemDisplay&catalogId=29104&productId=2803184&parentProductId=748326&langId=-1&distype=0&fromCat=[Ljava.lang.String%3B%401d6a78c&catCode=RE_SC&brCategoryId=58413&hlpi=true&highlightProductsItemsFlag=true&fromSearch=


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Western%ae-CGA5...3-810-NEW_W0QQitemZ180255772414QQcmdZViewItem

And you'll need a CGA-580 male x CGA-580 male to go from that piece to your regulator.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

houstonhobby said:


> Let me just go ahead and reveal my ignorance. Could someone define the difference between a single and a dual stage regulator?





Left C said:


> Some people want to understand the differences between single and dual stage regulators a little more as well as how they work or don’t work in some cases. "End of tank dump" is explained even though that phrase is not mentioned.The following comes from a Matheson catalog. It is well written and easy to understand.
> 
> *DUAL STAGE* regulators reduce the source pressure down to the desired delivery pressure in two steps. Each stage consists of a spring, diaphragm, and control valve. The first stage reduces the inlet pressure to about three times the maximum working pressure. The final pressure reduction occurs in the second stage. The advantage of a dual stage regulator is its ability to deliver a constant pressure, even with a decrease in inlet pressure. For example, as a cylinder of gas is depleted, the cylinder pressure drops. Under these conditions, single stage regulators exhibit a “decaying inlet characteristic”; where the delivery pressure increases as a result of the decrease in inlet pressure. In a dual stage regulator, the second stage compensates for this increase, providing a constant delivery pressure regardless of inlet pressure conditions. The dual stage regulator is recommended for applications where a continuous supply of gas is required; such as the gas supplied to analytical instruments where constant delivery pressure is critical.
> 
> ...


/////


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Most regulators are manufactured so they can be used with several different gases, so the inlet port on the regulator body is usually a 1/4 NPT female threaded hole. Then the appropriate nipple with the right CGA connector is screwed in. That means you can buy almost any regulator that has an output pressure range of 0-40psi to 0-120psi, and replace the inlet nipple with a CGA320 nipple, as I did.

So, you look for a two stage regulator, with a fighting chance to be in good condition, with an appropriate output pressure range, an inlet pressure of 0-1000 up to about 0-4000psi and it can be adapted to work with CO2. It just costs a little bit more money to replace the inlet fitting - $10 or so.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Today my needle valve and the 10-32 hose barbs arrived. That valve and the barbs are tiny - I mean TINY! Here is a photo of what I have:









The barbs I got are made of nylon instead of brass - I thought I was getting brass, but maybe they don't come in brass. They are self sealing, with a lip that seals on the flat area around the threaded hole. The valve is just so tiny!

It has a panel mounting threaded area, with a couple of jam nuts, so I'm planning to make a bracket to let me attach the valve to the regulator body. That should be the next episode in this adventure.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Thanks so much for the info guys! Hoppy, here are the exact details of the pressure range:



















Can you link me to the 1/4 CGA-320 nipple you purchased?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

core212 said:


> Thanks so much for the info guys! Hoppy, here are the exact details of the pressure range:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See Post #13 in this thread.


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## jjp2 (May 24, 2008)

Don't mean to get off topic, but thought this might be better than opening a new thread.

How do you get the CO2 tubing off the barbs? I have a heck of a time and end up cutting them off. I've needed to do this a couple times when rerouting the tubing or changing the tank.

Thanks,


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I have always had to cut the tubing to get it off the barb. I just cut it close to the barb, then make a small cut at the end of the tube and that usually lets me work the tube stub off the barb.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The resgulator is fully assembled and installed, and works great! First I removed the old Milwaukee regulator, and to emphasize the size difference I took a pic of the two side by side with the gages in a row:









Then I removed the solenoid valve from the Milwaukee regulator, one I had installed when the original one failed. First surprise! I had already installed a hose barb on the outlet of the new regulator - dumb move, that's where the solenoid valve goes. So, I needed a reducer pipe nipple going from 1/4 NPT of the regulator port to 1/8 NPT of the solenoid port, and a 1/8 NPT to 1/8 hose barb to go in the solenoid output port. $5 later, I finished installing everything on the new regulator.

2nd Surprise! There isn't room to twist the solenoid valve around to screw it into the regulator with the gage installed, so I had to remove the outlet gage first, install the solenoid valve, then reinstall the outlet gage.

I tried to find a good way to make a mounting bracket for the needle valve, but finally gave up and used a cable tie to hold it in place - actually two of them to get it long enough. That works very well. The assembly:

























3rd Surprise! Because of the short CGA320 inlet nipple the regulator gage interferes with the valve on top of the CO2 tank. Tilting the regulator about 45 degrees solved that problem. When I first turned it on, I backed off the regulator knob, just to be safe, cracked the tank valve, and the inlet pressure was instantly 700 psi. No noise, no explosion, no apparent leak. So, I went ahead and opened the tank valve totally, and plugged in the solenoid. Yikes!!! The needle valve was wide open! Well, that purged the CO2 line very nicely. I unplugged the solenoid and turned the needle valve almost closed, plugged it back in, and still a huge CO2 flow, but about one turn on the needle valve brought it back into control.

Soap solution test - passed.

Adjusted the regulator to 9 psi - I can set pressure to within less than 1 psi! Adjusted bubble rate to what I have been running, roughly, with needle valve. Very smooth easy adjustment. Great needle valve!

I'm 100% satisfied with this regulator! Elated, actually.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

<toasting to Hoppy's success!>

Enjoy! I can't wait to have mine come in...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Yes, that will work for CO2. You will need to replace the inlet fitting, that attaches to the CO2 tank valve, and install a good needle valve and solenoid.

For the inlet fitting, I used this one: http://shop.vendio.com/supplyndemand/item/968100008/index.html

For a good needle valve at a good price I used the Fabco NV55 from their store at: http://store.fabco-air.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-55

That valve has 10-32 tapered threads in the ports, so you need special hose barb fittings. I used these: FT-MS-4 from http://www.omega.com/pptst/tube_fittings.html

I get my small brass fittings, whatever I need to put things like this together, from my local Ace Hardware store, which has a bank of little drawers with lots of odd sized fittings in it.

If you need a solenoid valve, the one I have is from Rex Griggs, or it can be ordered from the manufacturers store at: http://www.spartanscientific.com/product_detail.asp?subid=69. P/N is 3823-06-A287 (I notice Rex now sells Clippard solenoids) Of course you can also get a solenoid from Ebay.

For a bubble counter, I use a 1 Liter plastic soft drink bottle, with two pieces of tubing through cap, filled with water.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm having doubts that this is a two stage regulator from the looks of the picture. It is laying flush it seems with the gauges. Aren't two stage regulators suppose to have a hump of sorts?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Where'd your post go Left C? I got update just no post here.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

My final good news: I just sold the remainder of my Milwaukee regulator for $15 to a member of our local aquatic plant group.:hihi::icon_lol::bounce:


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

core212 said:


> I'm having doubts that this is a two stage regulator from the looks of the picture. It is laying flush it seems with the gauges. Aren't two stage regulators suppose to have a hump of sorts?


Yes, that should have a bulge on the back. Maybe the seller thinks two gages means two stages. It could still be a good buy, but it won't be as good as a two stage regulator.


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

jjp2 said:


> Don't mean to get off topic, but thought this might be better than opening a new thread.
> 
> How do you get the CO2 tubing off the barbs? I have a heck of a time and end up cutting them off. I've needed to do this a couple times when rerouting the tubing or changing the tank.
> 
> Thanks,


thats a good thing, hose is cheap, clippard hose and fittings are incredibly difficult to separate whitout cutting, much better connection with alot thicker hose than standard parts imo


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## houstonhobby (Dec 12, 2008)

I have a JBJ regulator, which I think is probably not one of the best. Picked it up (for enormous money) at a local LFS on impulse. I know it is two stage because I have watched it go thru end of tank a couple of times and it behaves very nicely. But just looking at a regulator and not reading the specs, I guess there is no way I could know it was two stage? If it has a hump anywhere it is not prominent enough for me to notice it. Probably don't know where to look.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

houstonhobby said:


> I have a JBJ regulator, which I think is probably not one of the best. Picked it up (for enormous money) at a local LFS on impulse. I know it is two stage because I have watched it go thru end of tank a couple of times and it behaves very nicely. But just looking at a regulator and not reading the specs, I guess there is no way I could know it was two stage? If it has a hump anywhere it is not prominent enough for me to notice it. Probably don't know where to look.


 I highly doubt your JBJ is 2 stage. 2 stage regulators have a large protrusion out hte back of the regulator. If you read this thread there are several spots where it is explained and pictures of 2 stage regulators.

Buying it through a local LFS atleast doubles the cost of buying one online through a vendor.

Craig


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Info and pics of single and 2 stage:



Left C said:


> /////





Hoppy said:


> The resgulator is fully assembled and installed, and works great! First I removed the old Milwaukee regulator, and to emphasize the size difference I took a pic of the two side by side with the gages in a row:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Homer_Simpson said:


> All you need to know is that you won't get that end of tank c02 dump with a dual stage vs a single stage regulator. This is where, just when your c02 is almost empty there is an influx of a huge amount of c02 into the tank. This may not harm the plants but your fish could end up SOL. I have a single stage regulator and 2 c02 tanks. I let the c02 go as low as possible without completely hitting rock bottom and replace it. I know that this is a waste of c02 and I should get a dual stage regulator(cannot afford one right now and am not much of a DIY person) so I would rather waste c02 than end up killing a bunch of fish.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

You must be very weary of the folks listing as double stage, two stage, etc. on eBay as i've had to have my money refunded three times already due to this. I am now out of commission and at the mercy of paypal until they decide to remove the hold on the funds and return it to my account.

Please make sure that it has a hump/bump/rump/portrusion/extra lil' something on the back and it doesn't lay flat!


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Here is some information detailing the differences of a Single Stage vs. Dual Stage regulator:

*Single-Stage Regulators









* 
Gas enters the inlet (high-pressure) chamber and its pressure is indicated on the inlet pressure gauge. When the pressure adjusting knob is turned counterclockwise and completely backed out to the stop, a valve and seat assembly located between the inlet chamber and the delivery flow pressure chamber prevents gas from moving any further. A filter located at the inlet to the valve and seat assembly removes particulate matter from the gas stream to help protect the seat area.

Turning the pressure-adjusting knob clockwise causes the adjusting screw to push against a spring button that compresses pressure adjusting spring. The force of the compressed spring, in turn, causes the diaphragm to flex and push against the valve. This opens the regulator allowing gas to flow from the inlet chamber to the delivery chamber of the regulator.

Gas entering the delivery pressure chamber begins to build pressure and creates a counter-force (counter to the pressure adjusting spring) on the diaphragm. This pressure is indicated on the delivery pressure gauge attached to the delivery chamber. When pressure builds sufficiently to counteract the spring tension, it pushes the diaphragm away from the poppet allowing the regulator to close. In this manner, pressure in the delivery chamber is controlled or regulated by the amount of spring tension placed on the diaphragm and is selectable by turning the pressure adjusting knob until desired pressure is indicated on the delivery pressure gauge.

When gas from the delivery pressure chamber is sent to the end process, the resulting decrease in gas volume in the delivery chamber causes a pressure reduction in the chamber. When this occurs, the spring tension again causes the diaphragm to push the valve open, allowing additional gas to enter the delivery chamber.

*Dual-Stage Regulators*










These regulators incorporate all components of a single-stage regulator. In addition, however, they also contain a second pressure adjusting spring, diaphragm, valve and seat assembly. The first stage is not user adjustable with the pressure adjusting spring “pre-compressed" at the factory. This allows the first stage to feed pressure at approximately 250 to 300 PSI to the second (adjustable) stage. The inter-stage pressure will be higher when the desired delivery pressure is higher. The normal maximum delivery pressure for dual-stage regulators is 500 PSI.

The second stage then performs in a manner similar to that of a single-stage regulator, except that the inlet pressure to the second stage is relatively constant. The two-step pressure reduction produces a final delivery pressure showing little effect from changes in cylinder pressure.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

houstonhobby said:


> I have a JBJ regulator, which I think is probably not one of the best. Picked it up (for enormous money) at a local LFS on impulse. I know it is two stage because I have watched it go thru end of tank a couple of times and it behaves very nicely. But just looking at a regulator and not reading the specs, I guess there is no way I could know it was two stage? If it has a hump anywhere it is not prominent enough for me to notice it. Probably don't know where to look.


Your JBJ is a single stage regulator.

Here are some pictures of three of my dual stage regulators. You can see the hump on the back.

Front









Back


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Hoppy/TheRac25,

Not sure if you guys are still running by for visits to this thread but wanted to share with you that i've picked this guy up on eBay (hope the wife doesn't see my adventures via ebay/paypal and the three payment holds from regulators that I purchased that were listed as dual stage and turned out to be dual gauge!) Anyhow, here are the images below: 





































Am I on the right track now???


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## houstonhobby (Dec 12, 2008)

If my JBJ is single stage, then single stage seems to perform okay in end of tank situations, contrary to what I hear. As the tank loses pressure, the high-side gauge begins to go down. The low side pressure stays rock-steady, just under 2 bar. The high side goes all the way to zero, then the low side starts down, going to 0 in half an hour or so. No end of tank dump for me.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

core212 said:


> Hey Hoppy/TheRac25,
> 
> Not sure if you guys are still running by for visits to this thread but wanted to share with you that i've picked this guy up on eBay (hope the wife doesn't see my adventures via ebay/paypal and the three payment holds from regulators that I purchased that were listed as dual stage and turned out to be dual gauge!) Anyhow, here are the images below:
> 
> ...


You have the chrome plated version of my regulator! You are definitely on the right track now. The needle valve on that one may even be usable, but it is unlikely. I am so pleased with the Fabco NV55 valve I have, and the price is so reasonable, I may never even look at another needle valve again.

Incidentally, if you figure out how to hide the cost of your adventure from your better half, let me know how you did it. I just avoid mentioning the subject in my house.


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## airborne_r6 (May 2, 2008)

Hoppy said:


> Incidentally, if you figure out how to hide the cost of your adventure from your better half, let me know how you did it. I just avoid mentioning the subject in my house.


There should be an entire topic devoted just to hiding the aquarium expenses from the other half. My wife works at the bank it is nearly impossible.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hoppy, 

Ahh, only took me four shots at the ebay purchase to get it right. I actually paid $41.00 shipping and all for this and was hoping to use other items that I currently own without having to spend much more. 

Here's my inventory:

1. Red Sea Needle Valve: http://www.aquariumguys.com/co2-needle-valve.html

2. Red Sea Solenoid: http://www.aquariumguys.com/co2-solenoid-valve.html

3. Red Sea Bubble Counter: http://www.aquariumguys.com/co2-bubble-counter.html

4. Red Sea Reactor: http://www.aquariumguys.com/redsea-co2-reactor2.html

Hopefully the needle valve it has already is a swagelok or something and won't need to rely on the red sea.

The only gripes I am having with the equipment listed above is the reactor. I have to keep it on 24/7 otherwise when I have it hooked up to the timer I have to manually reset this thing every time. The reset involves me sticking my arm into the tank and inverting the reactor so it can kick in again. This is a pain in the ass to say the least and I am actually going to look to replace it with something better. I just don't know what that "something better" is and i'm looking for a second opinion. Ideally, i'd love to replace it with an inline reactor (out of sight somewhere in the far reaches of the tank's cabinet). I don't know how those work though. How is the co2 distributed? Does it go connected to my Eheim 2213 somewhere along the path with the UV sterilizer? 



I'll be sure to let you know the outcome of the situation with the wife once the smoke clears and all is set up.


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

i use something like this just before the spraybar http://www.barrreport.com/articles/3444-dual-venturi-diy-external-co2-reactor.html

but i have c02 input before the powerhead/pump instead of directly in the reactor


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Just thought i'd swing by to let you all know that my regulator came in today! Just waiting on the other parts to get it all together. I can't wait!


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Core, did you find a chrome plated nipple for your regulator and if so could you provide a link?


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

your gonna pay 30$ or more for a chromed or ss nipple, just get a cheapy brass nut/nipple i paid 6$ at a welding shop.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Nipple*

Hey, I just ordered the one that Hoppy recommended on this thread. This thing is gonna be sitting in a cabinet so paying $30-$40 dollars for a SS nipple doesn't cut it for me.


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## Squawkbert (Aug 21, 2008)

houstonhobby said:


> If my JBJ is single stage, then single stage seems to perform okay in end of tank situations, contrary to what I hear. As the tank loses pressure, the high-side gauge begins to go down. The low side pressure stays rock-steady, just under 2 bar. The high side goes all the way to zero, then the low side starts down, going to 0 in half an hour or so. No end of tank dump for me.


You've been lucky so far. End of tank dump is more likely to happen when 
1) the last of the liquid CO2 changes to gas and 
2) there is an increase in temperature, causing an increase in pressure within the tank. All other things being equal, more pressure means more CO2 flow...

Safest measure is to weigh your tank and mark your tank pressure gauge w/ a piece of tape or something when your new (or newly filled) CO2 tank has had a chance to come up or down to room temperature. As soon as you see deviation from that mark, reweigh. If it's lighter by roughly the fill volume you paid for, it's time to refill. If the deviation is maintained for more than a day, it's probably time to refill...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Not all single stage regulators are equally bad. I know for sure what the Milwaukee regulator does, but not the others. Theoretically, they will all do a poor job maintaining the right pressure as the tank runs out of CO2, but without testing one who knows?


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## msc (Mar 10, 2008)

Thanks for the links hoppy. Just used them to get a valve and fittings.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Hoppy,

So i've got the stuff in the mail today and i'm stuck on the solenoid part. I see that you had to buy nipple reducers for the solenoid connection. What was the exact part you purchased? Was it a female to female reducer adapter? 1/4" x 1/8" NPT? 

Would I be able to find this at a local home depot store? Or would I have to order it online?

Thanks,
Sandy


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## Dalban (Nov 21, 2004)

core212 said:


> I see that you had to buy nipple reducers for the solenoid connection. What was the exact part you purchased? Was it a female to male reducer adapter? 1/4" x 1/8" NPT?
> 
> Would I be able to find this at a local home depot store? Or would I have to order it online?


The outlet hole on your regulator will probably be 1/4" NPT. The particular fittings that you'll need will depend on the inlet on your solenoid. In my case, for example, I have a solenoid with a 1/8" NPT female inlet. So, I have a 1/4->1/8 bushing (adapter) in the regulator and then a 1/8" coupling that connects the adapter to the solenoid.

In any case, you'll probably be able to find these parts at a home depot, Ace or equivalent. I recommend you take both the regulator and the solenoid in with you so you can be sure you have the right parts. The parts will probably be in or near the plumbing department. (Otherwise, ask for their brass pipe fittings.) Don't forget to buy teflon tape if you don't already have it.


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

i find ace has a wider selection of useful parts


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## rolloffhill (Jan 18, 2008)

Hoppy said:


> Today my needle valve and the 10-32 hose barbs arrived. That valve and the barbs are tiny - I mean TINY! Here is a photo of what I have:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Piece of Aluminum cut and drilled, works great and is solid...


----------



## kingfish92 (Aug 18, 2008)

Left C said:


> Your JBJ is a single stage regulator.
> 
> Here are some pictures of three of my dual stage regulators. You can see the hump on the back.
> 
> ...


you should start making more and sell them, i would definetly buy one, im just to lazy to go searching around and buying parts


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

kingfish92 said:


> you should start making more and sell them, i would definetly buy one, im just to lazy to go searching around and buying parts


Orlando at Green Leaf Aquariums has a nice one. It uses the chrome plated medical grade VTS253A-1993 (320) Victor dual stage regulator.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s320/Left_C/GLAvictor-dual-regulator_zm.jpg


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## kingfish92 (Aug 18, 2008)

Left C said:


> Orlando at Green Leaf Aquariums has a nice one. It uses the chrome plated medical grade VTS253A-1993 (320) Victor dual stage regulator.
> 
> http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s320/Left_C/GLAvictor-dual-regulator_zm.jpg


looks pretty high tech and useful, but $279 :eek5: is just out of my price range


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

core212 said:


> Hey Hoppy,
> 
> So i've got the stuff in the mail today and i'm stuck on the solenoid part. I see that you had to buy nipple reducers for the solenoid connection. What was the exact part you purchased? Was it a female to female reducer adapter? 1/4" x 1/8" NPT?
> 
> ...


I have a very good old time hardware store near me, which is now an Ace Hardware store. They stock probably 800 little bins of small brass fittings of all types, so that was where I got mine. But, my local Home Depot also has a section with small bins, maybe a quarter of that many, and I have seen that same brass reducer nipple (with hex in the middle) at HD. I just installed it in the regulator, then screwed the solenoid onto it. You can almost always get the alignment right with an additional 1/4 turn, so I don't use couplings - one less place to leak. I used pipe dope too, not teflon tape.


----------



## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Great, i'll be on my way to home depot in the morning then! Will circle back with results...


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Setup is complete and will be posting photos later tonight. I have an immediate question though. I am concerned as the Cylinder pressure is reading pretty high at approximately 1800 PSI. I know its suppose to be sitting at about 800-1000 PSI. Is this something that I should worry about and if it is how do I remedy the situation?

Thanks!


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

kingfish92 said:


> looks pretty high tech and useful, but $279 :eek5: is just out of my price range


It is a really nice regulator, though. 

A year ago, those Victor regulators in mint condition were really cheap on eBay. Then you had to purchase the brass parts, solenoid, needle/metering valve, bubble counter, etc.

Here is some info and a pic of one that I built for less than $85. I got the Swagelok SS-31RF2 Metering Valve for for 99¢ plus shipping from eBay. It lists for $134.18.


Left C said:


> Rex Grigg, SuMo and GLA make excellent regulators.
> 
> Several of us are buying good regulators and building our own. I suggest that you use a Victor, Matheson or Concoa dual stage regulator. Then you can get the brass parts, solenoid, bubble counter and needle/metering valve from the places above. Here are some instructions on how to build one. Here is a thread about them.
> 
> ...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

core212 said:


> Setup is complete and will be posting photos later tonight. I have an immediate question though. I am concerned as the Cylinder pressure is reading pretty high at approximately 1800 PSI. I know its suppose to be sitting at about 800-1000 PSI. Is this something that I should worry about and if it is how do I remedy the situation?
> 
> Thanks!


The only way a tank of CO2 can be at 1800 psi is if it is almost entirely full of liquid CO2, a total No-N0! CO2 tanks are never supposed to be full of liquid, because they need space for gaseous CO2, and because a rise to room temperature with a totally full, cold CO2 tank would raise the pressure very, very high and possibly rupture the tank - explosively.

But, you may be reading the gage wrong too. Make sure you are looking at the "psi" band and not the other one.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi Hoppy,

Thanks for the reply! Here's a picture of the gauges.










Here's a quick video of the setup: http://www.aquariaspot.com/videos/id_5/title_DIY-Dual-Stage-Regulator/

Should I swap the tank out for another? I am only allowed to trade in, not refill here in New York City.

One other note that I forgot to add before was that this cylinder was sitting for approximately 8-9 months before I got it in me to retry the planted tank route... Would this play a part in this? The cylinder was always stored at room temperature under my tank...


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## Dalban (Nov 21, 2004)

> Should I swap the tank out for another? I am only allowed to trade in, not refill here in New York City.


I woudln't worry about it. However, when this tank is empty you might take your regulator in to check that its inlet gauge is actually accurate -- the place that you get your refill at can tell you. IMHO, you needn't worry about the tank itself. Tanks are hydro tested to much higher psi than this and even the hydro test is much lower than they their true holding capacity.

If your gauge is accurate, then this tank is probably a little fuller than the usual "1/3 empty" that we normally consider "full." Consider yourself lucky.


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## brion0 (Sep 28, 2008)

Read this thread 3 times. I know have a Matheson two stage regulator on its way, that I got of Ebay for $27 shipped. Along with a Fabco needle valve, an the rest of the parts I'll need, from a few other places. Got a Parker solenoid of Ebay also, for cheap.

Thanks Hoppy, your a wealth of information, an have been a great help to me in all my DIY projects.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

brion0 said:


> Read this thread 3 times. I know have a Matheson two stage regulator on its way, that I got of Ebay for $27 shipped. Along with a Fabco needle valve, an the rest of the parts I'll need, from a few other places. Got a Parker solenoid of Ebay also, for cheap.
> 
> Thanks Hoppy, your a wealth of information, an have been a great help to me in all my DIY projects.


I will be very interested to see how well that Parker solenoid valve works. If it does well, it is a very nicely priced item to remember. Of course, the ebay dealer will probably have them all sold by the time one of us wants one.


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## Dalban (Nov 21, 2004)

Hoppy said:


> I will be very interested to see how well that Parker solenoid valve works. If it does well, it is a very nicely priced item to remember.


I use it and it works fine. I only wish I could find a solenoid that was both cheap and low power (e.g., less than 6 watts) -- but that's a topic for another thread.


----------



## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

From what i was able to gather the lower power solenoids are of a different design and are more likely to fail than the ones rated at higher wattage.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

core212 said:


> Hi Hoppy,
> 
> Thanks for the reply! Here's a picture of the gauges.
> 
> ...


I would immediately trade that tank in. It may not have CO2 in it. And, when a system is set up for 800 psi operation and then subjected to 1800 psi, it is time to get uneasy. True that the regulator is rated for 2000 psi, but nothing good can come from overfilling the tank with CO2, or having it full of nitrogen or, even worse, oxygen.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

I'd take it back too and see if they can check the accuracy of your gauge.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

I was actually getting the same reading from the Red Sea regulator which made me replace it. I thought that it may have been broken or malfunctioning due to it's cheap-like construction (mostly plastic).

The Red Sea regulator would actually circle all the way back to where it'd tip the 0 again. I don't think that this there is an inaccuracy with the readout to be honest. 

I'm now torn on whether to consider it an advantage that I have a surplus packed cylinder or whether this is too dangerous to have like this...


----------



## brion0 (Sep 28, 2008)

core212 said:


> Hi Hoppy,
> 
> Thanks for the reply! Here's a picture of the gauges.
> 
> ...


You have already put the regulator on, an opened the tank, if some thing was going to fail it would have done so already. Both the tank an regulator are capable of dealing with this psi. I deal with Argon CO2 mix for welding, all our bottles come right around 1700 psi. Some of the regulators we use are cheap compared to yours. Call the people who filled it, an ask them what to do.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

If the tank is at 1800 psi now, and the temperature goes up much, it could be at 2800 psi pretty quickly. Please, get the tank back to the dealer, or better yet, just take the regulator off and open the valve a bit to bleed off some of the liquid CO2. If you get gas and not a blast of solid CO2 snow, you can be pretty sure it doesn't contain CO2 - possibly a mix of CO2 and some other welding gas. Why risk it?


----------



## Dalban (Nov 21, 2004)

Hoppy said:


> you can be pretty sure it doesn't contain CO2


Hoppy, we all appreciate your concern, but you've now suggested twice that it is likely this tank has something other than Co2 in it -- that suggestion is not realistic. There is almost no chance that this tank does not contain Co2 -- each gas filler has a unique CGA fitting according to the gas type so that there's no risk of accidentally filling a tank with the wrong kind of gas. None but the Co2 gas filler would have fit on the tank.


----------



## brion0 (Sep 28, 2008)

If you wanted to bleed the tank off, you should unhook the line from the regulator, then let it go through the regulator. Then you can watch the tank psi drop to a pressure you feel comfortable with. CO2 coming straight out of the bottle could cause instant frost bite, an at 1800 psi may remove skin an flesh. Compressed air at 200 psi can puncture skin an inject air causing a balloon effect. Calling the place that filled it for you would be the best thing to do. No one wants you to get hurt.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Dalban said:


> Hoppy, we all appreciate your concern, but you've now suggested twice that it is likely this tank has something other than Co2 in it -- that suggestion is not realistic. There is almost no chance that this tank does not contain Co2 -- each gas filler has a unique CGA fitting according to the gas type so that there's no risk of accidentally filling a tank with the wrong kind of gas. None but the Co2 gas filler would have fit on the tank.


The problem is that no tank with liquid and gaseous CO2 can have an 1800 psi pressure at any ordinary household temperature. If the CO2 ever did hit that pressure, enough gas would condense to liquid to drop the pressure back to about 800 psi. Only if there is no gas space in the tank can you build up that much pressure - by filling the tank completely with liquid CO2 at the usual very cold temperature. Then as the tank warms up the liquid expands generating a very high pressure. I keep belaboring the point because this is a fatal accident just waiting to happen.

As unlikely as it is, if the tank had a gas mix meant for some welding operations, then the pressure could be no problem, and an increase in room temperature wouldn't cause it to increase much, but then you would risk killing the fish by injecting that second gas into the water.

CO2, when used with normal caution, is perfectly safe. But, when you recklessly disregard any form of caution at all, we all have a moral obligation to scream STOP, and keep doing so as long as it takes. That is one of the obligations of being an adult human being.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Note the reduction in density between 20 and 30C. 5 pounds, 2.3 kg, of CO2 occupies about 3 liters of space, but raise its temperature by 10C and it occupies about 30% more space, by stretching the container like a balloon, or it compresses the liquid, raising its pressure way up, as high as 15000 psi. This is why no CO2 tank can ever be safely filled 100%, unless it is kept at a constant temperature, which isn’t possible for us to do. A fully filled CO2 tank is a bomb, and a very unstable one at that. You would not be criticized if you called the bomb squad to handle it.


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

if it where co2 wouldnt the tanks relief valve kick in and prevent tank rupture.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

okay hoppy... with that you have just scared the everliving S out of me. I will disconnect the tank immediately although I cannot bring it in for replacement until the weekend due to my work schedule. The tank would still have to sit in the same place (disconnected) until i am able to exchange it. I cannot leave it outside as I live in a condominium building.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

core212 said:


> okay hoppy... with that you have just scared the everliving S out of me. I will disconnect the tank immediately although I cannot bring it in for replacement until the weekend due to my work schedule. The tank would still have to sit in the same place (disconnected) until i am able to exchange it. I cannot leave it outside as I live in a condominium building.


Thank you! Could you take it outside and open the valve slightly to bleed off some of the CO2? Since you have already had that valve open, that should still be safe to do.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

sure. so by bleeding you mean just take it outside and turn the valve to the open position?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

core212 said:


> sure. so by bleeding you mean just take it outside and turn the valve to the open position?


Not very open, just slightly so, and it will make a horrendous noise and should give you a big spray of dry ice crystals. Just a few seconds might be all it takes. Just be very careful, and don't let it drop or be jetted away by the blast of CO2 coming out.


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## Dalban (Nov 21, 2004)

Hoppy said:


> raise its temperature by 10C and it occupies about 30% more space, by stretching the container like a balloon, or it compresses the liquid, raising its pressure way up, as high as 15000 psi.


Eh? How do you figure that?!

The pressure of gases are described by Gay-Lussac's gas law. It's very straight forward: pressure is exactly proportional to absolute temperature. Increase temperature by X%, increase pressure by same X%.

So, Core's hypothetical 10 degree Celsius increase from 20 C to 30 C is a 3% increase in absolute temperature. So, his 1700 psi tank becomes 1750 psi. But, even a 10 degree increase in temperature is pretty silly, we already know his cylinder has been at home for awhile, so its at room temperature. It's unlikely Core's room temperature will suddenly increase by 10 degrees Celsius.

All of this discussion is totally moot anyway -- it ultimately depends on what the tank's working pressure is rated at. If it's 1800 PSI (which is pretty standard for steel tanks) then it's nicely under the tank's rated pressure. Core, you should be able to tell by looking at the stamp on the tank.

Furthermore, when they hydrotest the tank, they fill it to 2.5 times the rated pressure of pressure (AND even if it fails hydrotest, it isn't because it explodes violently at that point -- it only means the tank's volume deviated ever so slightly to exceed a predefined limit). So even well above 1800 psi is no reason to call the bomb squad.


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## brion0 (Sep 28, 2008)

This is what I found dealing with high presure in a CO2 tank. 

Normal tank pressure is in the 700 PSI range. The pressure can fluctuate from 300 psi to well over 1,000 psi 
The valve should have a pressure relief safety device. The device contains a frangible "burst disk" that is designed to rupture and safely release the CO2 contained in the tank should you accidentally overfill it or subject it to high temperature. The burst disc is uaually rated between 1,800 and 2,500psi for CO2 tanks and can be as high at 3,500 psi for Nitro tanks. 
An overfilled CO2 tank, when subjected to summer time temperatures, will quickly build up enough pressure to blow out the 3000 PSI burst disc. 

Heres the link, http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/products/co2_tank_and_regulator.html


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

If that tank had any gas space in it it couldn't have an 1800psi pressure in it. At around room temperature the pressure has to be about 600-800 psi. That is the pressure at which gaseous CO2 changes back to liquid at room temperature. If it has only liquid CO2 in it, the gas laws aren't what controls the pressure. Look at a phase diagram of CO2. It would be liquid at any pressure above about 700 psi up to about 15000 psi, where it changes to solid CO2. And, the volume change of the liquid CO2 with a change from 20 to 30C is far greater than the elasticity of the tank would allow for. So, either the tank ruptures, the blow out disc ruptures (that is no fun either), or the the tank is made of some super composite material able to accomodate the volume change and pressure involved. If that tank has an improper blow out disc installation it would be the tank that ruptured.

This debate is a little like arguing that one can drive his 1970 Ford down the highway at 120 mph, so why not do it. Some things are definitely not what should be done. Any time I am absolutely sure that something someone proposes is extremely dangerous I have no choice but to say so, repeatedly if necessary. And, that should be the case for all of us. I think we are all "our brother's keeper" in this regards.

If I start describing a project, such as an LED light fixture, that I am going to do, I certainly hope anyone who sees me headed for a dangerous situation will say so.


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## rolloffhill (Jan 18, 2008)

The sky is falling...


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Thanks guys... The rule that would most suit this situation is "Better safe than sorry" and that is the route I will take. Albeit, I have taken some photos of the tank and the numerations on it as well as changes to the PSI that have taken place. I must also add that I found the receipt for the date that I picked this cylinder up and it was 11/22/2007 which is a little bit over a year. Most of this time (until two and a half weeks ago) this cylinder was sitting under my tank without being connected at all.

Here are the photos and information I was able to grab off the cylinder...

This photo shows an alphanumeric series that runs pretty much almost all the way around the cylinder:

_They read as follows: CTC/DOT-3AL1800X226159LUXFER11↕90 _










Photo of other numbers found on cylinder (possible date?):










Photo of the cylinder:










Another cylinder shot:










Gauge readout update:










Whole regulator shot:










I am going to bring it in to the nearest welding supply tomorrow morning for their review, opinions and for peace of mind. I will also be swapping the cylinder for another.

I originally owned an aluminum cylinder I purchased online but was forced to trade it in for one of these grungy cylinders at the welding supply because they do not do their filling there and would take a week or two for me to get it back yada yada... I am now regretting this but in NYC seems like I had no other choice.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

rolloffhill said:


> The sky is falling...


wth does this mean?


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## Dalban (Nov 21, 2004)

Hoppy said:


> Any time I am absolutely sure that something someone proposes is extremely dangerous I have no choice but to say so, repeatedly if necessary. And, that should be the case for all of us. I think we are all "our brother's keeper" in this regards.


I agree, but in this case the situation is not "extremely dangerous" so all you're doing is raising hysterics (IMHO). It sounds like Core has been sufficiently frightened, so this discussion is moot in any event. In the interim perhaps we can both brush up on our thermodynamics for next time.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

Dalban, I am seriously considering going the DIY Co2 route after this. I have a beautiful little 3 year old and a wife that I love and care for very much. I don't want anything to explode due to a 2 or 3 degree change in temperature. Why would this tank be like this? Why would they give me something that was not properly filled? Why would they fill it to this extent? Are there any situations where this type of ratio is required? The tank is clearly labeled Carbon Dioxide so I doubt that there would be a mixture of more than one gas. 

This is such a nightmare!


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## Dalban (Nov 21, 2004)

core212 said:


> Thanks guys... The rule that would most suit this situation is "Better safe than sorry" and that is the route I will take.


Fair enough. Although, I have to say, sitting in your appt for over a year should be proof enough that it was fine. 



core212 said:


> They read as follows: CTC/DOT-3AL1800X226159LUXFER11↕90


For your reference, DOT-3AL is the Dept of Transport's "cylinder type" and its corresponding hydro-test standards. "3AL" is an aluminum or aluminum-composite tank (which you already knew). The next set of numbers refer to the working pressure: 1800 psi. The next set of numbers (after the X (or including the X)) is the serial number of the tank. LUXFER refers to the manufacturer of the tank and 11/90 refers to date it was manufactured.

The numbers on the other side of the tank indicate when it was last hydro tested. In your case, it was hydro tested once in March 98 and again July '07


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

so if the working pressure is 1800 psi then i'm fine no? like i said this tank was put to use approximately 2 weeks ago and should be giving me a good run as far as use. I will hold off on bringing the tank in but will give them a call for their opinion. 

why would everyone else have their psi range from 500-1000? Is my case unique?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

core212 said:


> so if the working pressure is 1800 psi then i'm fine no? like i said this tank was put to use approximately 2 weeks ago and should be giving me a good run as far as use. I will hold off on bringing the tank in but will give them a call for their opinion.
> 
> why would everyone else have their psi range from 500-1000? Is my case unique?


If you're overly concerned of the overfill, bring it outside and release some gas until you can get a reading of ~800 PSI.


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## rolloffhill (Jan 18, 2008)

core212 said:


> wth does this mean?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky_Is_Falling_(fable)


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

thanks epicfish... I have opted to take my chances with the overfill... if you see news of a carbon dioxide explosion in a suburb of NYC then that'd be me. Otherwise, i'm going to let you all know how this plays out as psi decreases.

thanks!

@ rolloffhill: beat ya to the punch! i googled it and thought it was hilarious.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Have you/can you try another regulator on the tank? Your high side gauge may be off a little.

If the burst disc was going to do it's thing, it would have most likely done it already over the last year sitting under your tank. By finally using the the setup you're at least relieving some pressure from the tank thus making it safer if anything.

Also, putting teflon tape on the reg to bottle connection is pretty much useless.


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

jinx© said:


> Have you/can you try another regulator on the tank? Your high side gauge may be off a little..


My initial choice of purchasing another regulator was because the other regulator I had on the cylinder initially was giving me an off the meter readout as well. I mean the readout pretty much hit the stopper on the other end of the zero so I thought it was faulty and decided that if I was going to do this again, I would do it the best way possible and invest in the safest regulator possible. That led me to decide on a two stage regulator and well the rest has been well documented on this thread. 



> If the burst disc was going to do it's thing, it would have most likely done it already over the last year sitting under your tank. By finally using the the setup you're at least relieving some pressure from the tank thus making it safer if anything.


Seems like this is what most folks are saying about the situation. FYI, this morning I looked at the cylinder psi and it was at around 1,200 so much lower than last night. I was in the rush to catch the subway so didn't have time to take a picture.



> Also, putting teflon tape on the reg to bottle connection is pretty much useless.


Why is it useless?


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

core212 said:


> Why is it useless?


The washer/seal between your regulator stem and the end of your co2 tank nipple should be making a complete seal by the compression nut, making the teflon tape unneeded. If the seal/washer is bad, calling for teflon tape on the bottle threads, it's just as likely to be leaking around the regulator stem/compression nut. (If that makes sense)

Glad to hear your pressure has dropped, but if it's dropped 300lbs over night I'd say you have co2 leak or dead fish somewhere.

p.s...Sorry Hoppy for the continued OT convo this has ran into.:icon_redf


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## core212 (Feb 23, 2009)

It is on a timer and shuts off at night. There were no dead fish and I have checked for leaks before using soap and water solution. I may have misread and will update tonight when I get home with the exact number. I know it was in fact lower than it was last night though. 

Awesome sig by the way...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I will bet that the cylinder was a little cooler when the gage read 1200 psi, that would reduce the pressure. It doesn't take much when the cylinder is full of liquid CO2.

Everyone has to make his own choice when it comes to safety. You made yours. Mine would have been much different. Given how cheap CO2 is, I'm amazed that anyone would prefer to keep a bit more of it to dumping some of it for safety reasons. But, it's your choice.


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

You just had to go and start this thread, didn't you Hoppy.:icon_wink Now I'm spending more money on this hobby.:hihi:

Anyway, I couldn't find a deal like yours($16 WOW!!) but I did score this one for about $50 shipped on ebay and its stainless steel.




































I'm thinking about using glycerin filled gauges from this site
http://www.gaugestore.com/products.asp?dept=1109

What do you think?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I'm not sure that using liquid filled gages is a good idea for a CO2 regulator, and it isn't necessary, so I think I would just use the cheap gages I found - they had all pressure ranges available.

The valve is probably not a fine enough needle valve to be useful either. You got what looks like a very good regulator, but the cost of the extras will soon add up, too.


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> I'm not sure that using liquid filled gages is a good idea for a CO2 regulator, and it isn't necessary, so I think I would just use the cheap gages I found - they had all pressure ranges available.


Thats why I wanted your thoughts on those gauges. I'll go with the regular ones then. That regulator should be 1/4" NPT correct?



Hoppy said:


> The valve is probably not a fine enough needle valve to be useful either. You got what looks like a very good regulator, but the cost of the extras will soon add up, too.


Yeah, I didn't plan on using that as my needle valve. I think I'm just going to adapt my red sea solenoid to it and use my red sea needle valve also. Then my only additional cost is getting gauges. A great regulator at a great price, right? 

I do have a spare pair of gauges from a red sea regulator but I would have to use an adapter with them because they are 1/8" NPT. Would you see a problem with doing that?

Thanks for your input Hoppy.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Using a 1/4 NPT to 1/8 NPT bushing would let you use the existing gages you have. Nothing wrong with doing that. The regulator is definitely a steal for $50.


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> Using a 1/4 NPT to 1/8 NPT bushing would let you use the existing gages you have. Nothing wrong with doing that. The regulator is definitely a steal for $50.


Huh. Thats something to definitely consider then. The other gauges would look really nice on it but would cost me another $40 including shipping.

One more thing. I checked ebay and couldn't find what I needed in gauges. Any way you can post or pm me with the store you got yours from?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

This is the Ebay seller I got my gage from, and it's a nice one too:
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/PowerTr...idZ164604393?_nkw=pressure+gage&submit=Search


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> This is the Ebay seller I got my gage from, and it's a nice one too:
> http://stores.shop.ebay.com/PowerTr...idZ164604393?_nkw=pressure+gage&submit=Search


Wow! Great prices too! Thanks for that one Hoppy.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

PRESTON4479 said:


> Wow! Great prices too! Thanks for that one Hoppy.


Maybe those gages are assembled by 6 year old children, living 20 to one room, for all I know, but the price is enough for me to think of something else:redface:


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> Maybe those gages are assembled by 6 year old children, living 20 to one room, for all I know, but the price is enough for me to think of something else:redface:


The price has me thinking go ahead and order. hopefully the kids make more than a nickel a gauge.:hihi::hihi:

I think I'm gonna get a 60psi and a 2000psi. Those are half the cost of the other ones I was looking at.


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## bigpow (May 24, 2004)

I second that.
I sure wish I could be that handy since I obviously don't have $350 to spend on a CO2 system!
Any chance of you upgrading soon? Maybe let a fellow NorCal take your old setup? 



kingfish92 said:


> you should start making more and sell them, i would definetly buy one, im just to lazy to go searching around and buying parts


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Hi Hoppy

How is your dual stage regulator preforming?

Left C


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## JPMcGuire (Aug 16, 2009)

Hi, after many years being out of the aquarium hobby, the bug has bit again. I have always wanted to try a high tech planted tank and decided to give it a go. After reading this forum for quite a while I have learned alot but am still completely confused. As I read this thread I went ahead and ordered a regulator at what I thought was a really good deal off of Ebay. Then I read this:



Hoppy said:


> That means you can buy almost any regulator that has an output pressure range of 0-40psi to 0-120psi


The regulator I bought has an output pressure of 0-30. Does this mean it won't work at all for CO2 on a tank, or is it ok? Or if it won't work as is, can I just replace that one dial and be ok? 

Thanks!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

JPMcGuire said:


> Hi, after many years being out of the aquarium hobby, the bug has bit again.


It's an addiction that keeps coming back to haunt 



JPMcGuire said:


> The regulator I bought has an output pressure of 0-30. Does this mean it won't work at all for CO2 on a tank, or is it ok? Or if it won't work as is, can I just replace that one dial and be ok?


Unless you want to fiddle with the regulator innards, the maximum delivery pressure for the regulator you purchased is likely 30 PSI. It will work fine for CO2, as long as you keep your delivery pressure below 30 PSI. I personally set my delivery pressure at 20 PSI, and have no issues.

Replacing the dial will not work, as it will only give you the illusion of being able to have a higher delivery pressure. It is the regulator itself that would need adjusting if you wanted to increase the maximum delivery pressure.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

JPMcGuire said:


> Hi, after many years being out of the aquarium hobby, the bug has bit again. I have always wanted to try a high tech planted tank and decided to give it a go. After reading this forum for quite a while I have learned alot but am still completely confused. As I read this thread I went ahead and ordered a regulator at what I thought was a really good deal off of Ebay. Then I read this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


0-30 psi is a great range for our CO2 regulators. Normally, with really good regulators, you will only have the output pressure up to about 10 psi, or possibly 20 psi if you have a diffuser which needs more pressure to get CO2 to flow through it. If I had known that 0-30 psi regulators were available I would have said 0-30 instead of 0-40, in that post.


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## tyler79durdan (Jan 23, 2010)

I believe that this thread is one of the most valuable threads ive read on co2 cylinders. I think hoppy and the others who invest time into this one should be thanked! So here's mine... THANK YOU ALL!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

tyler79durdan said:


> I believe that this thread is one of the most valuable threads ive read on co2 cylinders. I think hoppy and the others who invest time into this one should be thanked! So here's mine... THANK YOU ALL!


This thread may be helpful too!

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/72328-victor-dual-stage-regulator-pimp-club.html


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## aereolis (Mar 14, 2009)

yay go victor regulators! I did the same thing hoppy about a year ago but with a victor regulator. Bought it for $20 off ebay, went to a supplier for victor components and bought a cga 320 nipple for $10, he gave me a free plastic washer , went to a regulator supply place that maintains regulators etc in Mississauga and got him to check it all over, he changed the diaphram & got me an output adapter that put out 1/4 npt and ensure it was in good order for $20. Not bad about $50 for a 2-stage regulator that the guy in mississauga told me was worth around $350!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

What kind of manifold do you have? It looks like you are splitting your CO2 into 2 lines after the solenoid. Also, did you mount those Fabco NV55s directly onto the manifold? Aren't you worried that the fragile #10/32 threads will break?


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## aereolis (Mar 14, 2009)

Not worried, nope. I was careful with how much i tightened them. I used the proper threadlocker for high pressure purposes that work with mating two brass connectors (I asked the manufacturer to make a reccomendation )

It's a very simple manifold, just goes from the solenoid, to a pipe reduction bushing (m/f), to a T with 2 10/32 f outputs, to two m/m 10/32 and then to the needle valves. I've only got 2 aquariums connected up so i don't need any more outputs yet. I may manufacture something out of brass with my dad's machining tools when I get some more aquariums. 

I was reading on one of the aquarium sites that the most co2 is lost through these systems when you take the high pressure coming off the solenoid and put it on a barbed fitting then some tubing and then the needle valve, so i sought a better option.


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