# Experimental lighting in nano...



## Mavvy (Aug 15, 2004)

Anyone ever tried these?

http://www.elwirecheap.com/coldcathodes.html

I just ordered the dual 12" computer kit, in white. If it's not enough light, I'll just order another kit, and double up. I have a spare computer power supply sitting here, along with a 2.5 gallon tank that was meant to be a reef (sadly, it failed...my fault). I'm going to make a hood of poplar and line it with Mylar, use an AZOO Palm flter, and see what (if anything) I can grow.


----------



## Darks!de (Oct 19, 2004)

I'm trying to find mylar...is the mylar banner that they sell at party stores alright to use? or does it have to be in metal sheets?


----------



## Mavvy (Aug 15, 2004)

Darks!de said:


> I'm trying to find mylar...is the mylar banner that they sell at party stores alright to use? or does it have to be in metal sheets?


I'm gonna use the banner stuff.


----------



## co2 (Sep 13, 2004)

That would be really cool if it works well, please update the thread with your results.


----------



## Mavvy (Aug 15, 2004)

Okay...just got the lighting tubes-the ceramic rods the 'light wire' is wrapped around are broken...EXTREMELY shoddy practice (box with the rods was placed right along one side of the shipping box during packing, THEN the shipping box was stuffed with styro peanuts...no protection for the box with the rods on one full side). I've emailed the company.


----------



## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

who would have expected it from a company with the word "cheap" in their name... :tongue: 
seriously though, best of luck getting that worked out, and i'm quite interested in the results once you get it up and running.

Oqsy


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Very interesting. Not sure how many of them you would need to reach Rex' "Minimum Threshold Level" for plant growth, but I guess if you use a bunch and reflectors you'd get there.

Why hasn't this been used before? Is it really more energy efficient than fluorescent lamps? Does the emitted light have any photosynthetic value? The candela/cm or whatever measurement they use doesn't really compare to Watts... so how many would equal say 20 Watts?

Let us know...


----------



## Mavvy (Aug 15, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Very interesting. Not sure how many of them you would need to reach Rex' "Minimum Threshold Level" for plant growth, but I guess if you use a bunch and reflectors you'd get there.
> 
> Why hasn't this been used before? Is it really more energy efficient than fluorescent lamps? Does the emitted light have any photosynthetic value? The candela/cm or whatever measurement they use doesn't really compare to Watts... so how many would equal say 20 Watts?
> 
> Let us know...


Well, the truth is...I just DON'T know. That's why I'm doing this. It seems it's gonna be a long-range experiment, so I'm just hoping for the best, at this point. I probably could have used a more efficient power source, but as I said, I had a computer power supply nearby (it's another thang I like to do).

I think at least one of the positives will be less heat. Insofar as photosynthetic value, I haven't a clue...but I'm sure willing to find out! It sure doesn't hurt to try. (I'm just waiting for the numerous naysayers to try to place the proverbial wet blanket on the whole thing. Any of those that are out there, please...Let fly. Just have proof to back up your statements, please. I don't want anyone to look foolish.) :icon_roll


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

After a google search I managed to pull out a few tidbits, but I'm still looking things over.

CCFs:

produce up to 80 lumens per watt

deliver the equivalent light output of a typical halogen fixture for 25% of the power

lasts up to 20 times as long, create little heat, and are dimmable

are designed to hold up under shock and vibration and resist elements causing corrosion

spectrum chart on this interesting site  

More specifications can be found here 

I think its possible they could have applications over aquariums, not just as car and computer case modifications. Keep us in the loop on your experiment.


----------



## Mavvy (Aug 15, 2004)

Okay...the little boogers are bright, but I don't think they're bright enough for my purposes (medium-light dwarf plants on my 2.5), so I ordered a second set. I'm also going to try a different power source. I'll advise when I do that. I'm making a canopy tomorrow. I want to see the difference between the light wood and the Mylar coating. 

ONE 'plus' is that the canopy won't need a fan (MINIMAL heat from the bulbs), so I can use narrower wood strips/boards for the canopy sides. With my little 8" power miter saw, this makes life much easier when fabricating the canopy...I can cut a dado the length of the board to slide the plywood top in, then cut the boards at a 45 degree angle on the ends, use glue and brads to put it all together..voila...nice canopy, minimal cost. Whole thing doesn't need to be any more than three inches deep, and that includes covering that little trim strip at the top of the 2.5. :icon_idea


----------



## bigpow (May 24, 2004)

CCFL are always on sale elsewhere
e.g.: www.svc.com

I've bought some stuff from SVC and their service was top notch.
Frankly I find CCFL not bright enough to lit anything (they're more for glow effect)


----------



## Mavvy (Aug 15, 2004)

bigpow said:


> CCFL are always on sale elsewhere
> e.g.: www.svc.com
> 
> I've bought some stuff from SVC and their service was top notch.
> Frankly I find CCFL not bright enough to lit anything (they're more for glow effect)


Well, as some say..it may NOT work the way I'd like it. But, what a fun project!
And...what if it DOES work? :biggrin: Gettin' there is half the fun!


----------



## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

How did this work out then?? Being almost 2 mths  hehe.

I am looking at alternate light sources and just found this post roud:


----------



## Osteomata (Jan 6, 2005)

The way I read the specifications chart linked earlier, the single linear 12 inch CCFL is putting out almost exactly the same light as a 16 watt standard fl (T12 or Tt8 I assume), and drawing half the power. Looks promising.


----------



## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Thats what I thought hehe and lasts twice as long, no heat..... easy enough to rig up... and perfect for the smaller tanks 

So now I just wanna hear how they worked on plant growth etc.


----------



## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

Mylar on Ebay: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42225&item=4337695392&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V


----------



## Mavvy (Aug 15, 2004)

Sorry for the delay. Still working on it. More later...I promise.


----------



## Stu (Feb 16, 2004)

I'd love to see some updates when available as I'm thinking of doing the same thing.

My thoughts on their "feasibility", based on a nano tank of approx 18"x10"x10" in length...

```
[i]12" PCFL             12" NOFL       12" CCFL[/i]
   [b]Light Intensity[/b]  Very high/size      Reasonable    Unknown - possibly high?
     [b]Heat Buildup[/b]   Very substantial  Only a little   Negligible
[b]Min. Hood Depth[/b]  50mm                 25mm          10mm
     [b]Power Usage[/b]   High                  Quite low       Low
     [b]Bulb Lifespan[/b]   2 Years?            1 Year          3.5 years
```
*Advantages*
Cheap tubes
Negligible heat output
Long life span
Very compact
Low power usage
Lightweight

*Disadvantages*
Light output may not be high enough for demanding plants
Very high output voltage = possible danger to tank.

The way I predict, (if light spectrum of CCFL successfully promotes photosynthesis) is that CCFL is a much better way of getting light into a tank (especially smaller/shallower ones) than standard flourescent tubes, but may not be as powerful as power compacts, though brings none of the dificulties associated with PCFL's.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I doubt the "high light intensity". They look bright because of their tiny diameter, just like a LED blinds you when you look into it. But you want to light up an entire area, and that is where lumens count, not millicandela :tongue: 

Another thing you'll need to look into is the spectrum. Plants need some of the blue and red waves to grow normally, which is a given with all regular ways of lighting. LEDs and CCFL on the other hand might not have this complete spectrum. Time to do some spectral analysis, to look at some curves roud: 

A 10mm hood sounds sweet though! Maybe even a grid of them floating on the surface, seriously, no loss from reflection of the water surface, and since they don't get hot...


----------



## Stu (Feb 16, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> I doubt the "high light intensity". They look bright because of their tiny diameter, just like a LED blinds you when you look into it. But you want to light up an entire area, and that is where lumens count, not millicandela :tongue:


18000(±3000) cd/m2 I would say is bright. Isn't candela the equivalent of lumens?

With regards to LED's (and to an extent, perhaps CCFL), what I think you are trying to say is that LED's have a restricted viewing angle, which is true. Usually about 30°, meaning that they throw out light only within that 30° like a spotlight. I believe they are high intensity, just restricted in directional output.


Wasserpest said:


> Another thing you'll need to look into is the spectrum. Plants need some of the blue and red waves to grow normally, which is a given with all regular ways of lighting. LEDs and CCFL on the other hand might not have this complete spectrum. Time to do some spectral analysis, to look at some curves roud:


Yeah, if only you could obtain curves for those types!















I was thinking perhaps a combination of a few different colour tubes would produce a bit of a spectrum (with the size of each tube, this is easily possible), even if perhaps not giving a perfect sweep of colour, it will at least provide some critical areas.


Wasserpest said:


> A 10mm hood sounds sweet though! Maybe even a grid of them floating on the surface, seriously, no loss from reflection of the water surface, and since they don't get hot...


I wouldn't want them touching the water at all.... the inverted output running to each bulb is somewhere in the region of 200-1000 Volts!

*Average specs of a CCFL...*
Brightness: 18000±3000 cd/m2 
Average Life: 15,000 hours 
Voltage: 200-1000v 
Input Voltage of Inverter: 12v 
Output of the Inverter: 5mA 
Power: 2.85±0.3

I will be experimenting at some point by making a complete new hood for either my frog tank (25 litre in sig) or for a new nano style tank to test CCFL as aquarium lighting fully. For the time being I have installed one white 12" and one blue 12" into the hood of my frog tank to accompany the 8 Watt normal output flourescent (Arcadia Original Tropical) I have been using.
The whole tank is considerably brighter, and I have seen much faster growth in; Lemna minor, Microsorium pteropus, Vallisneria tortifolia, Vesicularia dubyana and Hygrophila corymbosa "compact".
I appreciate these are plants that do not require higher light to grow, *but* I have deffinately noticed much better growth in these species with the addition of the cathodes.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Stu said:


> With regards to LED's (and to an extent, perhaps CCFL), what I think you are trying to say is that LED's have a restricted viewing angle, which is true.


No, that's not what I am trying to say. The CCFL bulbs don't have a restricted viewing angle, they are just as round as a normal fluorescent bulb. What I was referring to is that if you have two lamps of the same wattage but different dimensions the smaller bulb seems brighter. Like if you compare a T12 with a T8 with a (NO) T5 the larger T12 seems dimmer. Or if you look at a short PC bulb compared to a longer one etc.

In any case, this is interesting stuff, and I should shut up and buy some and start experimenting instead of thinking about it. Sean posted a link to a spectral curve earlier and it looks actually pretty good.


----------



## Stu (Feb 16, 2004)

I understand your point now.









I didn't notice there was a spectral curve linked here earlier, it does look interesting! Some perople here with excellent tank experience say that all flourescents can be used to grow plants, and I think this will be true for CCFL as well, as after all, they *are* flourescents by design.

I've got some Mylar from a seller on ebay which I plan to use as a total in-hood reflector with the CCFL's


----------



## Mavvy (Aug 15, 2004)

Stu said:


> I understand your point now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Boy, am I glad I started this. *LOL* Please let me know how it works out. My experiment has been stalled...we moved into a new apartment, got a new motorcycle ('05 Harley Sportster 1200...yup, I'm bragging), and other 'life happens' things. I CAN tell you I've converted the moonlights on all my 10 and 15Gs to one little 4" blue cathode. The evenness of the light is amazing. I'm goilg to use two 6" blue tubes on my 55G planted that I'll be setting up shortly.


----------

