# Heavy nitrates, BGA still present.



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

IME once you got BGA, sometimes even elevated NO3 levels don't kill it.

I would nuke it with a 5 day EM treatment.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You can also do a blackout - a total one, with no peeking, no light leakage, for a few days. Then, you could try to improve the water circulation, and block light from the edge of the substrate if that is where it starts.


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## Tino (Jan 9, 2005)

mrbelvedere said:


> Here's something that doesn't happen often.
> 
> I have a BGA outbreak in my 15. This is the cursed tank. Always something wrong with this tank. I've tore it down many times, to no avail.
> 
> ...


Probably low CO2.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Hoppy said:


> You can also do a blackout - a total one, with no peeking, no light leakage, for a few days. Then, you could try to improve the water circulation, and block light from the edge of the substrate if that is where it starts.


I think the circulation is acceptable. The 2213 is on full blast. I suspect this isn't going to go away on it's own. I am not sure which method to use. They both have their merits. 




Tino said:


> Probably low CO2.


That could be the problem. DIY CO2 and Excel are present. I think I could use a better diffusor though. I'll see what that does. I thought with my relatively low light (LOA screw in) I could get away with a half-assed job, but then again, nothing is ever simple......


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

If your talking about the same BGA that is commonly described as "slime aglae", it is not a true algae. It's a bacteria. Dose your tank with EM tablets at 1/2 the instructions' dosing rate.

Tommy


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

LS6 Tommy said:


> If your talking about the same BGA that is commonly described as "slime aglae", it is not a true algae. It's a bacteria. Dose your tank with EM tablets at 1/2 the instructions' dosing rate.
> 
> Tommy


I'm fully aware that it is cyanobacteria. And I'm fully aware erythromycin phosphate kills it, often with a lot of other bacteria in the tank, creating heavy cloudiness. I've been doing this for a while, bud. You also shouldn't dose antibiotics unless absolutely necessary. 

Killing it is easy. That much I know. I'm trying to figure out the cause, usually bottomed out nitrates. But not this time.


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

Has the growth stalled out at all? If you manually remove it as much as you can and dose nitrates, then it still comes back right? How fast is the growth rate? Does it double in size in a day? Two days?


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

It doubles in size every few days. Growth hasn't stalled in the slightest. I'm dosing a ton of nitrates and I'm blacking it out the whole labor day weekend. Getting a new CO2 diffusor whenever it becomes convenient.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Update. 

More nitrates have been added. Co2 in form of a gallon size bottle run into the filter. BGA growing that much faster. I laugh to myself, as this tank is being torn down into a terrarium when I sell everything off. 

I still would like to know what's wrong. Other than the tank is cursed.


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## rrguymon (Jul 10, 2005)

You sure you did not mix up your nitrate with one of the other powders? Easy enough to do. 

Rick


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

This seems like one of those rare occasions when being able to test for nitrates would be very helpful.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm actually wondering if perhaps my nitrate mix went bad, reacted w/ something, or precipitated out.

Updates when I test.

Also: I have found you can get rid of massive amounts of BGA from the tank with a 1" diameter hose for a water change, as long as your plants are rooted well. It just sucks right off.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Tino said:


> Probably low CO2.


Low CO2 has nothing to do with BGA ...BGA is phtotosynthetic and usually gets opportunity in high light and low NO3....CO2 plays no role in its eradication.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

mrbelvedere said:


> I'm fully aware that it is cyanobacteria. And I'm fully aware erythromycin phosphate kills it, often with a lot of other bacteria in the tank, creating heavy cloudiness. I've been doing this for a while, bud. You also shouldn't dose antibiotics unless absolutely necessary.
> 
> Killing it is easy. That much I know. I'm trying to figure out the cause, usually bottomed out nitrates. But not this time.



No insult was intended. BTW, I have never had cloudy water after a 1/2 dose of EM. Guess I've been lucky?

Tommy


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

LS6 Tommy said:


> No insult was intended. BTW, I have never had cloudy water after a 1/2 dose of EM. Guess I've been lucky?
> 
> Tommy


Sorry, that does not excuse rudeness on my part. You were only trying to help. I was a little distraught that day. 

Just when you think you've got it all figured out.......here comes that algae.....


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Have you cleaned that filter good and the gravel vaccuming as well?

Search some of the threads I've posted, you need to get rid iof the organics in there and then go back to routine dosing, good plant growth etc.

There might be some indirect CO2 issues with most algae.
So good CO2 will help in all cases.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

plantbrain said:


> Have you cleaned that filter good and the gravel vaccuming as well?
> 
> Search some of the threads I've posted, you need to get rid iof the organics in there and then go back to routine dosing, good plant growth etc.
> 
> ...


It's fairly new gravel. I replaced it back in August. However, I believe it has been awhile since I cleaned the Eheim. I'll see what that does.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

mrbelvedere said:


> Sorry, that does not excuse rudeness on my part. You were only trying to help. I was a little distraught that day.
> 
> Just when you think you've got it all figured out.......here comes that algae.....


I didn't take your reply as being rude. I just figured you took my reply as condescending.:icon_redf 

Tommy


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

mrbelvedere, this is also a mystery I would like to solve in my tank

high nitrate (about 30) but sudden BGA breakout.

my guess would be lack of circulation and imbalance in CO2 levels in the tank, at least that I think is the cause of my BGA breakout. I did major pruning and added circulation to the tank, hope it works.


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

I'm in the same boat belvedere.

I did a massive prune back, and for some strange reason I'm getting horrible bga, and it reappears overnight.

Ive got good CO2, decent flow (there's a lot of wind in the tank hehehe) and nitrates past 40ppm. It's not the lack of NO3. but I'm having trouble getting good plant growth.

I'm trying but it's very hit and miss.

I'm tempted to black out and start again.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Now let me ask a question, do those with BGA issues, also have sunlight hitting their tanks part of the day?

Look at the orientation of the tank relative to the windows etc, you you see more or less BGA on that side?

Cleaning the tank out good, clean the filter, the gravel etc once ina while, then cranking the CO2, and the nutrients will help.


You can do daily to 2x a week 50% to 90% water changes, clean the filter, gravel etc, add Excel etc, do this in conjuction with a blackout etc if you want to get real agressive.

so the blackout for 3 days
No CO2, no light, totally cover the tank 2 layers thick at least, close blinds on windows etc, tilt spray upwards.

Next do daily 80% water changes, remove as much of the algae as you can.
Add 1.5 the suggested amount of Excel after water change.
Day this for 3 days and add ferts back each time.

Add light back, crank CO2, add ferts and watch CO2 closely.
If you see any BGA, fluff it off, harass it good before it gets going.

This is a very active agressive method that works on most species of algae.
You can use less labor intensive routines and achieve sucess, but some folks have more issues than others and some are less paitent.

I do think the DIY plays a large role in many species of algae for folks, they just are not consistent with the DIY CO2 ppms in the tank for whatever reason.

BGA, BBA, GDA, GW etc all can be induced to some degree by poor CO2....even if it's a minor role, the cumulative effect of low CO2, + low NO3, or NH4 higher levels, or too much light etc can really exacerbate the algae bloom and make it tough to get rid of.

It all gets back to growing plants, as said already, killing algae is easy, but..........preventing new growth is the key.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## attack11 (May 5, 2006)

you probably have a water flow issue. put a powerhead in the direction of/on the bga and watch it breakup/die. keep your lights off for a day or two and it'll be gone; unless you somehow got a nitrogen fixing type.

you can simply pick it up out of the tank also, but that just removes most of the colony. you need to correct the flow to keep it gone.


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

> Now let me ask a question, do those with BGA issues, also have sunlight hitting their tanks part of the day?


Darn right mr barr! I have several tanks but just one that is by the balcony has worst BGA issue. Sunlight can always reach my tank, even though indirectly. In the end I resolve to antibiotics, in small dose, planted deep into the substrate. It takes several weeks to completely eradicate the algae-bacteria bond.

Erithromicyn is basically a narrow spectrum antibiotic, effective towards positive gram bacteria (esp coccus and stems) and not towards negative gram bacteria. For sure this creates unbalance of natural micro flora in a tank, and may create other problems where the other kind of bacteria which are resistant start to take over the balance. Use with caution and in moderation.

Now if you talk about BBA and clado, things will go worse.


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

Okay, I've pointed my outlet so that it's shooting directly at the bga, and it still seems to be going, I threw a sack of purigen into the filter about 2 weeks ago and gave it a good clean, Now this would have the same effect as increasing the lighting, as the water was pretty tea coloured, but I figured that wouldn't have too much of an effect.

Another thing that I've done overnight is add aerator to the tank, in the hope that low O2 levels overnight could be exacerbating the issue. I have a DIY system into a Rex Reactor. So it's constant.

I'd rather not do a blackout if I can help it, but if these measures don't work, I'll be forced to resort to it. In australia Erethromycin is prescription only substance. yay


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

The aeration seems to have stopped it in it's tracks, so I'll try running it for a few days more, and see, and remove what I can of it, and we'll see how it goes.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Tino said:


> Probably low CO2.


BGA is usually due to low NO3 and poor circulation, but understand it has to be present to begin with, via another plant or something. The low NO3 and circulation just exacerbates what is already present.

Blackouts work to curb it no doubt, but IMO a 5 day dose if Erythro is the way to go. Get it out of the tank completely so you don't have to wait for another opportunity for it to bloom again.


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

I've won without having to resort to chemicals and the like.

Nor have I had to go silly with the garbage bags.

All it took was good water management, cleaning it the minute it's seen, cranking the Co2 a little and making sure that there aren't any fluctuations within the tank that the BGA can get a foothold with. Basically it all comes down to getting the plants to grow. I noticed that my plant growth had limited somewhat and that was causing the BGA to attack, lower than normal nitrates may have had an effect, but I am winning.

Circulation helps but don't fix all the problems, but mechanical removal is possibly the most effective. way of getting rid of it, once it's there.


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## attack11 (May 5, 2006)

it's mostly the water movement. i have cyano dying in cycles in my reef tank, and had it in a planted tank a year or so ago. it's a real pain once it starts up and you can't seem to get the water flow right to take it out without screwing up other things


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

sunlight huh....never occured to me

-.-;

yeah theres half of my tank getting direct sunlight, and theres more bga there


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

I made a discovery in my tank which may have something to do with it as well.

As Tom Barr constantly reminds us, if you have good growing plants you shouldn't have algae, if you have something limitng plant growth, algae will move in.

I had STACKS of rotala growing in my tank for a long time, but after a while it all started looking ratty and just plain wasn't growing.

I transplanted some Ludwigia from another tank into this one, and bought some myrophillum too, they were all looking really weak, and and new growth nodes were dying, I traced it back to a boron deficency, so I'm now dosing boron with my traces, and things are perking up, and the BGA is fading.

While boron isn't what's killing the BGA it does prove that good plant gowth is your best defence against alage


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

and with that I've decided that I'm not going to beat this thing lying down.

I'm doing a blackout.

We'll see what happens now.


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