# Peacock gudgeon breeding journal.



## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

I have a 10 gallon planted tank with a growing colony of RCS and a pair of peacock gudgeons. Originally it was one but a little while ago I introduced a second. I read that they like to have short pvc pipe sections to hang out in so I put a couple pieces in there for them. They've been inside the pipes together off and on and today when I came home there was EGGS! In the pipe with one of the fish. Assuming it was the male. Later in the evening I went and looked to find one of them devouring the eggs. Now. For the questions. 
1. Is it normal for peacock gudgeons to eat their eggs?
2. If they spawn again, which I assume they will, when do I remove the pipe with the eggs to another tank? 
Any other peacock gudgeon spawning advice appreciated. 
Thanks


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Mine never ate their eggs . Could be your eggs were infertile , could be something else . Anyway , they'll probably spawn again within a few weeks . See what happens then . If they eat the eggs a second time , then I'd consider pulling the eggs . I'd pull them asap after you find them . Put them in a small tank with a very light water current , maybe a drop or 2 of methylene blue or acriflavine to prevent any fungus spread from the inevitable infertile egg or 2 . IIRC it's a couple of days between hatching and free swimming . Fry are pretty small , infusoria , cyclopeeze , micro worms for first food , moving on to BBS after a few days . If you've got a small bit of java moss or maybe some frog bit , water sprite , or other long rooted floaters , put some in the fry tank before they hatch to provide a source of micro foods for the newly free swimming fry.

Just a second thought re: acriflavine/methylene blue . It might not be a good idea to add it to the tank where the pair and shrimp are . Not 100% sure but I think both are copper based .


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

I agree with everything the above poster said except I have one question. 

Are you sure you have a male and female or is it possible you have 2 females and the eggs aren't being fertilized? 

If they aren't fertilized they will be eaten everytime.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Peacocks are very easy to sex. If you want to verify what you have, the males heads have a rounder, almost phallic look and the females head is pointed, kinda bullet look. Females often have black dotting/striping on their lower fin too.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks everyone! I'm pretty sure that I have a male and female. They definitely have different shaped heads and bodies. And one has no black on its find while the other has black tips on all its fins. I had one in the tank for months and I added the second and they were doing their thing in the pipe starting almost as soon as I added them. I'll try to post a pic of each of them but they won't stay still in the open for long.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Can't figure out how to post pics but there's a pic of both in my gallery. I can't get my phone to copy the whole code.

Bump: Figured it out on the ipad, not the best pics though


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## AJR930 (Jan 8, 2014)

My gudgeon pair are like wizards. They mysteriously disappear every couple of months.

Last month they disappeared for almost 5 days. I turned and flipped everything over in my tank looking for them and never found them. I told my wife they were dead. A day later there is the female and two days later the male. No fry though.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Definitely male and female you have there.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Today I saw them in the pipe again. Looks like a ton off eggs. As the female was still in there she was starting to go for the eggs again. The male kicked her out and is guarding and fanning the eggs now. I'm filling up a small 3 gallon tank with their tank water and am going to move the pipe tonight. I'll take the sponge filter in their tank and put it in there too. I'll throw in some Java moss too so if they hatch they can maybe get some nutrients from there. Anyone else got some advice it will be welcome.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Best picture I could get of him in the pipe fanning the eggs.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

The fry will need small live food at first(vinegar eels,infusoria,possibly microworms).
Good luck!


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks cb, I hope I can get a hatch. I'll go to my lfs first thing to see if they have something I can feed the fry. He definitely is not letting her or any shrimp get in there with him. It's pretty cool to watch these guys behavior.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Putting in the sponge filter is a good move . Usually there's all sorts of micro foods that live on/in the sponge . If you can grab a micro worm culture or brine shrimp eggs locally,that'll get you going , if not try either 'First Bites' or Cyclopeeze as a first food , no substitute for live food but they'll give you a shot.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

someoldguy said:


> Putting in the sponge filter is a good move . Usually there's all sorts of micro foods that live on/in the sponge . If you can grab a micro worm culture or brine shrimp eggs locally,that'll get you going , if not try either 'First Bites' or Cyclopeeze as a first food , no substitute for live food but they'll give you a shot.


The sponge filter just seemed like a no brainer to me. I actually do have a vile of brine shrimp eggs to hatch. I've never done it before but it seems fairly simple. I'm just unsure of the timing of all these things. I'm getting ready to clean out and set up the small tank I have empty right now. Thanks for the advice everyone. I also have some frozen cyclops in the freezer.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

http://www.qldaf.com/forums/australian-png-natives-44/breeding-peacock-gudgeons-73328/
First post here has some good time line info.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

I'd start the brine shrimp eggs in the hatching jar as soon as the fry hatch . You might want to make up the salt solution for the shrimp ahead of time , and then dump the eggs into the brine when you need to . It'll take the fry couple of days to become free swimming ( first they'll be wigglers , then they'll get loose from the pipe and bounce around, sticking to the tank sides , plants , whatever , then they'll start swimming) so if you start the BBS culture when the fry hatch , you'll probably have shrimp at about the same time the fry start to dependably swim . Once the BBS culture hatches , start another . I'll get 2-3 days out of my cultures , so by starting a new culture when the first one hatches , I'll have a reasonably steady supply of BBS .


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

So I got the small tank all setup and moved the pipe. I placed one end of the pipe right against the sponge filter hoping to get some flow through the pipe. Now the waiting begins. We will see if anything hatches. Here's hoping for the best.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Update on these guys. After dealing with quite a bit of fungal eggs the remaining hatched and are growing, rather slowly, but they are alive and they eat. A few died early on but I have about ten that look healthy and eat like crazy. The parents spawned again yesterday and this toe the father is staying guarding the eggs. I'm going tinkerer him in there until they are about to hatch to see if I can improve on numbers. Anyways, looks like I'll have to set up another tank to raise more in. These little guys are still smaller than 1/4 of an inch.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Excellent !!! The next batch will be better , you just have to fine tune your procedure . Hopefully the male will do his job . What are you feeding the fry?


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

As of the this morning he was still doing his duties as a brooder. I fed him with a pipette so he didn't have to leave the pipe. The fry are eating newly hatched bbs, but I got a vinegar eel culture started for the next batch.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

What are you going to do when the eggs hatch ? Will you try to transfer them out of the community or give the male a chance to try to raise them ?


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

From my research and recent experience I have to pull the eggs right before they hatch if the male is fanning and taking care of them. If he stops they will get fungus unless you maintain some flow through the pipe. If they hatch in the tank with the parents, they will eat them. So since the father has been taking care of them I will pull the pipe when they're ready to hatch. Or pull the pipe with the male in it and when they hatch put the male back with his lady.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

When I was raising them , usually I'd pull the flowerpot with the male and eggs like you're going to do , and then net out the male before he could do any damage to the fry . For me it was probably the best way out .


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

The vinegar eels will be best used days 1-3.
If they can eat BBS then they will fill up faster. 
Make sure to harvest vinegar eels the "Wright way".Search it if you don't know(Wright way is the name).


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Fry are getting fatter and starting to resemble fish. I m still observing the new spawn in the parent tank. Today the male is still in the pipe taking care of the eggs. He's a good daddy. They seem to be maturing faster than the last time when I removed him. Also no fungus and a lot more viable eggs. I think I will have to pull them tomorrow. I gotta work and I don't know where I'm going to put them yet but I'm afraid to let them hatch in the parent tank. I don't know what would happen if I put the eggs in with the other fry. My plan was to divide a 20 long and put the fry on one side and the eggs on the other. I'm just worried they're going to hatch tomorrow. Hope I can get something set up before they do.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Got a plastic container , like a shoe box or similar ? Put the pipe in along with some tank water and maybe some plants . Not a great way out , but it'll buy you a few days until you get something better set up .


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

^+1^
I have floated fry in "Tupperware/Rubbermaid" bins before.
By floating it in tank you don't need a heater.
Might just find out what the male is all about.
With so many different pairs I find each is a different parent.
Some of my GBR need to be removed within 2 days of free swimming and I have a couple that can go a week or more.
These guys are so active lately I think I may leave my best pair with fry just to see?


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

You guys think it would work if I put a breeder net in the main tank and put the pipe with the male and eggs in there till I can set up the 20? He's still in the pipe taking care of them. The eyes are visible in the eggs so they're going to start hatching soon.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

It's worth a try?
They may just keep breeding for a while, so you will get to "refine" your techniques.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

If it's your only way out then you do what you gotta do . If the eggs are eyed up , maybe it would be a good idea to just move the eggs . I think you'd have a tough time getting the male out of the net without damaging some of the fry once the fry are hatched .


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

I went ahead and put the pipe in the breeder net. Male still in. I couldn't get him out, and I was worried about putting the eggs in with the othe fry. Hopefully he doesn't eat them if they hatch while I'm at work. I was thinking of I can't get him out I could get the fry out with a pipette.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Clayman said:


> I went ahead and put the pipe in the breeder net. Male still in. I couldn't get him out, and I was worried about putting the eggs in with the othe fry. Hopefully he doesn't eat them if they hatch while I'm at work. I was thinking of I can't get him out I could get the fry out with a pipette.


 Most of my parents want to protect the fry for a day or so at least,SO I just reach into tank with my hand and catch them.They come right to me and attack so it really is pretty easy and I have no fear of netting the fry.It is way easier and safer to move parents then fry once they are hatched.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

So got a chance to setup a 10g tank to replace the little 3g half moon tank the free swimming fry were in. I took the male out of the pipe and left him in the main tank. I put the pipe in the breeder net in the 10 with the free swimmers. The eggs are starting to hatch. When is it safe to take the them out of the breeder net and let the new wigglers into the tank with the free swimmers?


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

I don't think I'd move them until they are free swimming . If they're just bouncing around they could be mistaken for a convenient source of food to be picked apart by the first batch . Maybe using the 3 the first batch was in for the second would be a good idea , at least until they're free swimming for a week or so . Then put them in with the first batch , along with some floaters , or java moss or similar . Probably the best rule of thumb is that if the little fish will fit into the big fishes mouth , it will .


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Well since I put the little 3g to use as part of a bbs hatchery I guess I'll leave them in the breeder net until they're free swimming. I don't think they'll fit in the other batch's mouths but I guess they might pick at them.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

It really does come down to if they will be eaten and if they can compete well enough to eat.You may be to mix them in a couple weeks or so?


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Update on these guys. First batch is growing and eating like crazy. Second batch I had to remove them from the breeder net because they were getting trapped in between the frame and the net. They were all free swimming. Im feeding vinegar eels and bbs and they all get along together and eat good. There's got to be at least 30 in the new batch. Everything seems well. Anyone have good experience with any tank dividers? The only one I ever tried was crap. Changing water, feeding, and hatching bbs has become routine and I'm actually enjoying seeing these little guys grow. My schedule only permits me to feed them once a day most of the time. They'd probably be growing faster if I could feed them twice a day right? If the parents keep spawning I'll definitely have to set up another tank for new fry. Got a couple more sponge filters coming invite mail.


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## sleepswithdafishez (May 23, 2013)

Is this Peacock Gudgeon breeding season or something???Mine also laid eggs ,and hatched about 2 days ago.Last year was the same thing ,they laid eggs on Valentine's day 

They(the parents) were in a 6g cube tank ,along with some Red Cherry.Despite having a coconut cave and a piece of wood with access underneath ,they decided to lay eggs behind the heater ,in a corner.....I removed the parents when the eggs hatched.

I have a big clump of Najas Guadelupensis in that tank ,it takes care of nitrate excess....I also threw in some decaying leaves from other tanks ,and I also have a sponge filter(actually a tiny HOB with sponge on the intake).Also some gravel ,but nothing is planted in it.

I don't have any source for microworms ,etc .....would throwing in a piece of zucchini cabbage etc....,help create some more microorganisms?

Last year I had a low survival rate because I only had a java fern in that tank ,and no source of microworms or vinegar eels.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

sleepswithdafishez said:


> I don't have any source for microworms ,etc .....would throwing in a piece of zucchini cabbage etc....,help create some more microorganisms?


I'm a total fish breeding and fry raising newb so I don't know the answer to this question. I do know that soon after they're free swimming, they can eat freshly hatched bbs. They did eat the vinegar eels and I think it helped a lot considering the first batch only ten made it to this point and this batch I counted over 30. I could send you a vinegar eel culture to get you started on that. They are so easy and there's like zero maintenance to grow them. I got them from a forum member on another site for the cost of shipping. 
My pair is in a 10g low tech planted with cherry shrimp as well. They've laid eggs every two weeks or so three times, and the male is in his pipe again tonight so they might do it again soon. Small 3 inch sections of 1/2 inch pvc pipe are the best from what I understand. If you read this whole thread, the female ate the first batch of eggs, I removed the pipe the second batch but took the male out to soon and ended up with a lot of fungus eggs,this last time I left the male in the pipe until they were ready to hatch then removed him. I just counted 40+ fry in the 10g tank I've been raising them in. My next question is when can't I stop hatching bbs and feed them normal prepared foods?


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## sleepswithdafishez (May 23, 2013)

Clayman said:


> I'm a total fish breeding and fry raising newb so I don't know the answer to this question. I do know that soon after they're free swimming, they can eat freshly hatched bbs. They did eat the vinegar eels and I think it helped a lot considering the first batch only ten made it to this point and this batch I counted over 30. I could send you a vinegar eel culture to get you started on that. They are so easy and there's like zero maintenance to grow them. I got them from a forum member on another site for the cost of shipping.
> My pair is in a 10g low tech planted with cherry shrimp as well. They've laid eggs every two weeks or so three times, and the male is in his pipe again tonight so they might do it again soon. Small 3 inch sections of 1/2 inch pvc pipe are the best from what I understand. If you read this whole thread, the female ate the first batch of eggs, I removed the pipe the second batch but took the male out to soon and ended up with a lot of fungus eggs,this last time I left the male in the pipe until they were ready to hatch then removed him. I just counted 40+ fry in the 10g tank I've been raising them in. My next question is when can't I stop hatching bbs and feed them normal prepared foods?


After a couple of months I was able to feed mine tiny frozen bloodworms.That was the batch from last year.I also had crushed flakes ,but they wouldn't touch them.
Infusoria seems easy enough to prepare.Some rotting vegetable into a jar of aquarium water.I am wondering if it isn't the same thing if you throw the veggie directly in the tank and let it rot there ,since you have Red Cherries also ,and a sponge filter.....


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

I'm removing the eggs and not letting them hatch in the tank with the parents. I've just read that this is the easiest way. Anyways these little guys destroy bbs. Can't figure out how to imbed you tube video.

www.youtube.com/embed/l0VumQZm3Hc


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Update, the first two batches of fry are growing and eating well. Still feeding newly hatched bbs and changing water daily. There's at least 50 of them. Looks like I'm going to need more space soon. The parents were in their pipe again yesterday and today the male ejected her and started taking care of a new batch of eggs. I'm going to have to setup another tank for the new eggs to hatch in. Good thing I built the stand for the 10 in my closet with a shelf that will accommodate a 5.5 gallon under it. I just don't have anymore cycled sponge filters to put in it. I might take s little media from a he parents filter and put it with the sponge. Anyways, who's gonna want peacock gudgeons in a few months?


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## lhoy (May 10, 2013)

Glad I found this thread. Been keeping reef tanks for a few decades and going to do some freshwater tanks finally. Just saw Peacocks today and I might be very interested in getting some! Congrats!


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## shattersea (Sep 6, 2013)

I'm interested, too!


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

It will probably be a couple months before any of these little guys are big enough to go. But i will be willing to sell or trade some for sure. If you're close enough to pick them up that would be even better.


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## shattersea (Sep 6, 2013)

Sounds good. Let me know.


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Well, I got a 5.5 gallon set up and moved the almost hatched eggs and the male in the pipe to it. I didn't want to put this new batch in with the other two batches, they're growing fast and I think they would pick at the new fry. I didn't have another cycled sponge filter, do you guys think it'll be ok with the daily 50% star changes. Or should I put some sort of cycled media in the tank?


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## Clayman (Jan 7, 2015)

Newest batch of fry free swimming for a few days, eating vinegar eels like crazy. Soon to switch to bbs. Old batch is growing bigger, they devour some bbs fast as can be. 

Pic of the first two batches in the 10g.


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