# Hawaiian Red Shrimp Issues and Breeding



## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

I've been keeping H. rubra for about 6 months now and until last month had few, if any, real problems. They haven't bred for me yet, but it is apparently fairly common that they don't start for a year or more. I keep them at 1.019 salinity (RO plus appropriate artificial salt blend), 78 degrees, and there is plenty of algae to eat, supplemented infrequently (every 2 weeks, perhaps) with crushed flake food and spirulina. My nitrogen levels are all zero (tested with salt kit and fresh kit). The tank is fully cycled with an oversized, air powered sponge filter. 

Recently the shrimp have started dying. Since they've got a 20 year lifespan, potentially, this was kind of a surprise, as they're supposed to thrive on neglect and instead they're dying in what ought to be a shrimpy paradise. So far I think I've lost a third of my colony of 60 shrimp. They hide a lot, so I find corpses, or pieces of corpses, from time to time. I've done a couple of water changes, but that hasn't helped.

Any suggestions for other avenues to search? The remaining shrimp are still molting occasionally and eating, but 20 shrimp down in a month for a colony that should lose ~3 shrimp per year due to old age is obviously more than a little out of whack.

I don't really want to, but I'm considering tearing the entire thing down and restarting it in a freshly scrubbed tank. The major downside to this will be losing the cycle and the brackish/salt algae that I've got going.

ETA: I'm changing the title of this thread a bit, as it now encompasses both the problems that I was having with them and subsequent breeding information.


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Are there enough hiding spots?
I mean, really enough hiding spots for that many shrimp?

I'd get some salt tolerant plant to help you keep the water clean rather then need to do water changes.

-Gordon


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

They don't have anything to hide from, and all 60 could effectively hide under a single stone, but yes, there is a vast area for them to hide in, in fact I rarely see more than a half dozen at a time. You don't need to do water changes with these guys normally, the algae that they eat keeps the water reasonably clean. I only did water changes because they were dying off, to try to reduce any contaminant that might have gotten into the tank by accident.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

*What size tank? Water a little too salty?*

How big of a container are you keeping yours in? I've read that they do best in water that is 1.008-1.012. When I started with my dozen, I lost three the first six months. I don't know if that was a natural die-off due to acclimation, or the fact that thru a misunderstanding with the seller, I had them at 1.025. I do a 20% water change every month or so and otherwise just leave them alone. They have so much algae to eat they aren't even interested in their treat food now.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

could be something else besides what your testing for is wrong with your water. technically you shouldnt need to do a water change ever, just top off with ro. i have a couple of small jars about 1/3 liter that have been doing fine this way for 8 years plus with no deaths. my main tank is larger (ada 30c) but again, no maint except to top off. that said, i would do a partial water change and maybe vacuum your substrate, you could be getting anaerobic spots and they are letting off some bad juju. these guys are tough as nails and it takes alot to kill them so if your getting multiple deaths, something is wrong with your water/substrate.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

What about temperature? Any chance its getting to cold for them at night?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk


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## ykh (Jul 21, 2006)

copper in the tank by any chance? Double check nitrate,nitrates and ammonia level.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

Indeed dhavoc, that's what I was doing the water changes for, in case there was something wrong. Thermometer reads a steady 78 degrees. There isn't any substrate to speak of, just a bed of largish lava rocks. I can't think of any reason they'd start being poisonous all of a sudden after months of no problems. It's a 10g tank. 

Probably going to reset the whole thing... I was thinking of doing the same with my 20L that is above it, so it would make a whole day of messy fun to just get both done.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

Good luck.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

jasonpatterson said:


> There isn't any substrate to speak of, just a bed of largish lava rocks.


Could be the lava rock is leaching something in the water? I know that they live in brackish pools that contains lava rocks but not all lava rock are the same.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

dhavoc said:


> technically you shouldnt need to do a water change ever, just top off with ro. i have a couple of small jars about 1/3 liter that have been doing fine this way for 8 years plus with no deaths.


 Are you using any small sponge filter in those containers?


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

no, they have a thin layer of sand, and rock and thats it (small containers). my larger main tank has a sponge filter though because of the density of shrimp in there.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

shrimpo said:


> Could be the lava rock is leaching something in the water? I know that they live in brackish pools that contains lava rocks but not all lava rock are the same.


Anything's possible, but it's your standard lava rock, not clinkers. I also don't know why it would take so long to have an effect if it was from the rocks. I've got some amano zoeas going in there that I want to see develop, so I'm going to give it another week before resetting it, but I think I'm just going to go with sand and a few larger rocks and get rid of the filter altogether.

Dhavoc, do you aerate your water or anything like that?


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

yes on the 30c, no on the small containers. pic of my 30c. color is off as i did not color correct. actual tank is much more white color wise. simple sponge filter.








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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

dhavoc said:


> yes on the 30c, no on the small containers. pic of my 30c. color is off as i did not color correct. actual tank is much more white color wise. simple sponge filter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


can you repost the full pic, it didn't come up properly.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

I pulled out all but 3 lava rocks today, fairly small chunks, and added some sand. I haven't seen much of the shrimp in the tank lately due to the large amount of space they had to hide in, so it was nice to get a head count, of sorts, and confirm that the majority are indeed still alive. They can hide behind the sponge filter still if they really need a place to be completely hidden, as well as around the stones. 

My amano zoeas are doing insanely well in that tank. It's frustrating because I've spent $50-100 setting up a system where they could develop and have access to phytoplankton and all the rest, but have only had 1 completely successful shrimp. In this tank I threw about 20 in and gave them no support whatsoever. I now have at least 4 that are nearly ready to transform into adults and another 6-10 that are promising. Unless there is a major dieoff, that's a 25-75% success rate versus a 0.25% success rate with the others. This tank will never be able to support hundreds of zoeas at a time, but I don't really want hundreds of amano shrimp, so that's just peachy.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

*Whatever happened with the HRS?*

Did the die off stabilize? Did you figure it out? 

We seem to be crossing paths on HRS and Thai micro crabs a lot recently.


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

Is this a brackish species? I have never heard of it so I cant say too much but I can say that you've got it in full saltwater ranges. If they are brackish I would lower your salinity/sg greatly. If saltwater, I'd raise it and check to see if your calcium and alkalinity are at the right place. I would also add to their diet. Throw them in some brine or mysis shrimp every once in awhile.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

sampster5000 said:


> Is this a brackish species? I have never heard of it so I cant say too much but I can say that you've got it in full saltwater ranges. If they are brackish I would lower your salinity/sg greatly. If saltwater, I'd raise it and check to see if your calcium and alkalinity are at the right place. I would also add to their diet. Throw them in some brine or mysis shrimp every once in awhile.


The Opae Ula can survive in a huge range of parameters but will only breed in a brackish environment. But generally they can live through anything, even without filtration.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

*What if it was just an unidentified disease spike?*

I was thinking about this--that's why I asked for an update. You said you'd had them about 6 mos. I assume you bought them from the same stock. What if it had nothing to do with you? What if a few of them had something and like most epidemics, it just kind of simmered for a while before it hit flash point, killed all the vulnerable ones to it, and now is dormant/gone because the shrimp left are resistant?

They know so little about shrimp diseases and the fact that you'd had them only 6 mos. and can't find anything you may have done/problem with the tank makes me wonder about this...seriously. I'd just bought "Back to Nature Guide to Nano Aquaria" by K. Fohrman et al. and they focus a bit on freshwater shrimp (nothing brackish unfortunately-crabs or shrimp, treat nerites like freshwater) and mention several diseases the freshwater shrimp can show up with and it got me wondering...So, if the problem seems to have gone away, that is my guess as to what happened. If you'd had them two years or something then I wouldn't be suggesting it. Here's what the book mentions about bacterial diseases "Sometimes a couple of shrimps die every day for a few days or even weeks..." None of the diseases mentioned end well.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

It's hard telling what was happening, but it seems to have stopped. Since I redid their tank I have had one shrimp death, and it looked like a molting problem. Still no breeding.

Sampster, they can survive in anything from freshwater to brine, basically, but supposedly breed best in 1.012 or so. Their pools in nature vary greatly as well and they breed successfully in all sorts of salinities (though not entirely fresh water.) A number of people reported success with getting their colonies started breeding by increasing the salinity from 1.012 to 1.019 or so, so I gave it a try. It didn't work, so I gradually brought the salinity back down to 1.012 and am just going to wait them out. 

They're still molting and pooping like mad, so things can't be too far out of whack in there.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

I finally have a berried shrimp! It was hard to see, but there is one in the tank now. When I bought my first batch, I had one shrimp arrive berried, but she dropped her eggs. This shrimp has much smaller eggs than that one had had, but they are eggs nonetheless. Equally important to me is that it is one of the palest shrimp in the tank that is berried (though not one of the completely white individuals.) It's very easy to come by the red morph shrimp, but the white morph seems to be a tougher thing to find; I'm happy to have her be the first to berry.

I've been making no particular effort to stabilize salinity, and I add water every once in a while when I notice that the level is getting lower through evaporation (along with knocking the salt creep back into the tank.) 

I had been adding amano zoeas to the tank so that they could develop, and that was working fairly well (relatively speaking) but I quit doing that about 3 weeks ago since I want the zooplankton in the tank to grow well for the red shrimp zoeas. Hopefully I'll get a chance to see how they do in the coming months.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

Congratulations! Especially since it's a pale one. I've got one that is close to opalescent. They are so neat. You've been doing everything right for so long. Glad this finally happened. Keep us posted.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Awesome news.

I am, as always, living vicariously through your experiments.


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## SurfsUP (Nov 3, 2011)

Can I put these shrimps into my reef tank?


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

SurfsUP said:


> Can I put these shrimps into my reef tank?


People used to use them for 'feeder shrimp' for reef fish.

An actual reef tank might be too far out on the parameters though. Be interesting to find out.


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## SurfsUP (Nov 3, 2011)

madness said:


> People used to use them for 'feeder shrimp' for reef fish.
> 
> An actual reef tank might be too far out on the parameters though. Be interesting to find out.


I was just wondering if it were possible to keep them alive and happy in my 30g reef. I never really check the water but wanted something that would help keep the algae under control. Strange cause on the reef forums the Hawaiian red shrimps are not discussed.

Now I just gotta find someone that still has these available for sale. Hmm maybe I might get my relatives from Hawaii to ship me some?


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

I know that a lot of people keep them in full salt water, so as long as you don't have anything predatory in there, I don't see why it would be a problem. They aren't going to keep your algae under control unless you've got hundreds though. These guys are tiny, and they really don't eat much. They just graze on the existing algae and it grows and grows and grows. I've got to scrape down the front glass of my tank every month or so because it's getting coated. I'm using 2x13W CFLs for a 10g tank. Mostly they're just pretty little red shrimp. 

That said, they will be more than happy to live in your tank. I don't know how long it will take them to breed, but they should do that as well, eventually, at least in theory. They're capable of living in all kinds of crazy conditions, so a standard saltwater tank is a cozy place.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

I agree with Jason. As long as you appreciate pretty little red shrimp that are as tough as nails and don't expect algae miracles...and if you have enough of them they should breed "in theory." :icon_smil They are great. You don't have to get them in HI. Google them. Many places in continental sell them too. One guy in HI sells them by lots of 25 for sea horses. Can't remember his name. I honestly don't understand why more people don't keep them. Is it bc they are so small? They're afraid of mixing the Instant Ocean??


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

The only reason I wouldn't keep them is the brackish breeding conditions. I really wish that there were other brackish shrimp that they could mix with easily so that the tank had a bit more variety. I'm hoping that their breeding is successful and that eventually it's swarming with them.

Ocean Rider sells them for $2 each for seahorse food, dunno if that's what you're thinking of. If it is, I'd go with Hawaii Opae Ula Farm, they do $1 each minimum order 50.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Good to hear, I've been keeping mine @ 1.01-1.012. Had some sporadic die offs because my tank crashed when I increased the salinity (used freshwater bacteria, newbie mistake). Have since read that bacteria cycled @ 1.01 is the most tolerant to salinity shifts. 

I got mine from manini here on the forums for $0.50 each. Sent me ~62 shrimp for $25+shipping  They're incredibly tiny, should have ordered more.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

Yes, it was Ocean Rider.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

Just wanted to post that I've got zoeas! There are at least 4 of them, quite probably more. I'm surprised by their size, compared to microcrabs, ghost shrimp, and amano shrimp, these zoeas are huge, perhaps 3 mm in size with heads that are 1mm across. I knew to expect relatively developed larvae because of the egg size, but this was a surprise. I actually thought that the first zoea that I saw was a fragment of a dead adult shrimp, since it was so red and bulky.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Great news!


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

Of the 6 zoeas I found, at least 3 survived to transform. They really really like to hide, so it's difficult to tell whether I'm seeing the same 3 shrimp or if they all 6 lived and I only see 3 at once. They are now, roughly 2.5 months later, approaching adult size and doing well. I've got another berried and she should be hatching out relatively soon. If the size of her brood is any evidence, it ought to be quite a few more than 6 zoeas. 

The main reason I'm on here right now is an odd reaction that they've just had. I occasionally try feeding them small amounts of various foods, usually spirulina, but occasionally something like pulverized turnip greens or the like. Very rarely I'll give them something with a reasonable amount of protein, but they almost always ignore it (crushed fish flakes, for instance.) 

Tonight I decided to try a couple of sinking fish pellets on them and the results were pretty amazing. I smashed two New Life Spectrum pellets and dropped them into the tank. The shrimp are now going insane, dancing everywhere, though they are completely disinterested in the food. Assuming they don't all die tonight or something like that, I'll try again in a couple of weeks and see if the reaction is due to the pellets or another factor. I'm very wary of post hoc reasoning, but I've not seen them this animated except immediately after a very stressful event. Additionally, I'm going to watch for berried shrimp, as that is something that is generally expected after an event like this. If I get several berried shrimp in the next few days, I'd consider that to be relatively good evidence for these pellets acting in the way that breeding drops are generally intended. 

Any worthwhile conclusions would require multiple testing events, of course.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Congrats with the zoea surviving! Hopefully you can perfect the method and survival rate to help the species.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

There wasn't much to it, honestly. Once the shrimp finally berried it became more or less as automatic as any other shrimp. I fed spirulina a few times while the babies were still larval, but I don't know whether they ever actually ate any of it. 

My ultimate goal is to have a colony of thousands in a very large tank, but at their current rate of reproduction the population will double once every couple of years, so they'll finally be dying of old age by the time my plan comes to fruition. If they ever really get going breeding that might change, of course, but they're known to be slow, slow, slow in nearly every regard, so I'll keep my hopes reasonable.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

jasonpatterson said:


> There wasn't much to it, honestly. Once the shrimp finally berried it became more or less as automatic as any other shrimp. I fed spirulina a few times while the babies were still larval, but I don't know whether they ever actually ate any of it.
> 
> My ultimate goal is to have a colony of thousands in a very large tank, but at their current rate of reproduction the population will double once every couple of years, so they'll finally be dying of old age by the time my plan comes to fruition. If they ever really get going breeding that might change, of course, but they're known to be slow, slow, slow in nearly every regard, so I'll keep my hopes reasonable.



I thought they lived like 20 years though?


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

So would you say that the key was to have an established tank with a lot of microfauna/algae/etc. so that you didn't have to target feed them as much and destroy the water quality?


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

I never fed them much or destroyed the water quality, just a tiny amount of spirulina and/or flake food once every other week. Even if they ate none of it and it all decomposed, it was far less than what would be required to overwhelm the algae/filter's ability to clear. I still don't know why they started dying on me, to tell the truth. I suspect that the major factor that caused them to start breeding was that I scrubbed out their tank and then reset everything and just left it alone.



GeToChKn said:


> I thought they lived like 20 years though?


Yep. I've got something like 35 shrimp left, and if they double every two years, in 20 years I'll have 36,000-ish of them. Should be enough to populate my gigantic aquarium.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

jasonpatterson said:


> Of the 6 zoeas I found, at least 3 survived to transform. They really really like to hide, so it's difficult to tell whether I'm seeing the same 3 shrimp or if they all 6 lived and I only see 3 at once. They are now, roughly 2.5 months later, approaching adult size and doing well. I've got another berried and she should be hatching out relatively soon. If the size of her brood is any evidence, it ought to be quite a few more than 6 zoeas.
> 
> The main reason I'm on here right now is an odd reaction that they've just had. I occasionally try feeding them small amounts of various foods, usually spirulina, but occasionally something like pulverized turnip greens or the like. Very rarely I'll give them something with a reasonable amount of protein, but they almost always ignore it (crushed fish flakes, for instance.)
> 
> ...


 Did you try the pellets again? What happened if so?


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

Have you ever tried acclimating them to freshwater (not for breeding)?


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## moosenart (Feb 18, 2012)

Koi Kameon said:


> Have you ever tried acclimating them to freshwater (not for breeding)?


+1

also i totally want to setup a small tank with these some day...


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

Koi Kameon said:


> Did you try the pellets again? What happened if so?


I have not yet tried the pellets again. The first time I tried I saw 2 molts in the tank the following day and 4 days after there was 1 additional berried shrimp. I wouldn't consider that to be anything out of the ordinary compared to their normal state of affairs. I've got a bunch (well, 10 of them anyway) of zoeas in there now from another female that was already pregnant, so I'm trying to avoid stressing them out prior to their transformation. 

I'll give it another shot once the zoeas have transformed. Again, I'm very wary of poor thought processes with things like this, and it's very easy to fall prey to confirmation bias (only noticing events that support a hypothesis) and post hoc reasoning (Event B followed Event A, therefore Event B occurred because of Event A.)



Koi Kameon said:


> Have you ever tried acclimating them to freshwater (not for breeding)?


Yep, it's pretty easy, just plop them into fresh water and they live. There's no need for acclimating them, at least in my experience. [Note: Koi later tried transferring his to freshwater and his died. I don't know what the difference was.]


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

jasonpatterson said:


> Yep, it's pretty easy, just plop them into fresh water and they live. There's no need for acclimating them, at least in my experience.


Yeah lol... they won't breed or anything but survive perfectly fine. I've seen several LFS keep them in freshwater set ups as well.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

Yep, it's pretty easy, just plop them into fresh water and they live. There's no need for acclimating them, at least in my experience.[/QUOTE]


As long as they seem to still live happy, healthy, longish lives in freshwater, yeah, I'm going to give it a try.


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## moosenart (Feb 18, 2012)

Koi Kameon said:


> Yep, it's pretty easy, just plop them into fresh water and they live. There's no need for acclimating them, at least in my experience.


 
As long as they seem to still live happy, healthy, longish lives in freshwater, yeah, I'm going to give it a try.[/QUOTE]

Same... they're pretty neat little guys.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

This was my original idea, along with the long-shot hope that they might someday breed in fresh water. I changed my mind when I found out the way that they are typically raised and sold, lots of habitat destruction, careless farming of them as feeders, etc. I don't know that the opae ula themselves are really in trouble, but the several related species are. I decided to try raising them in a brackish tank to get them to breed instead.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

So I got impatient and tried another pellet. Nothing happened that was out of the ordinary at all. I guess the swarming must have been the usual naughty pheromones and that event happened to coincide with an unusual feeding.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

*starting acclimation*

All right. I started acclimating my HRS to lower salinities. Changing the water about 20% twice a week from 1.008ish to start. Working on 1.005 bc that is what I have on hand and then will divide to 1.0025 and then if gutsy enough--fresh with a cuttlebone to help with molting. The only thing I am concerned about is these little guys who have been molting successfully for years may have problems molting in fresh water so may chicken out and leave it at 1.0025. The plants in the tank I want to put them in can handle that level and I want to slowly get the algae on their rocks acclimated so I can just move a pile of algae-covered lava rocks in there in the back for them.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Molting won't be affected by fresh/salt water, but rather the nutrients dissolved in the water. If you're worried add a tiny bit of cuttle bone or seashells to the water.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

*Down to 1.005 sp. gravity*

They seem to take it all in stride. On an up note, the aponegenaton bulb that I had thrown in there just to see if it would do anything had been struggling at what was supposed to be 1.008, but had somehow turned into 1.012 spg started to immediately take off even with ambient window light within two days of getting down to 1.005. So, even if I chicken out and leave them at 1.005 (I've had these guys for years and am quite fond of the 9 of them), it would be nice to give them a piece of greenery to pick on and rest on and perk up the lava rock/algae look.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

Best of luck. The shrimp should survive the transition with no problems whatsoever. 

I have been trying to decide what kind of macro algae I want to try to adapt to 1.012. There are several that can make the change, supposedly.


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## dougolasjr (Mar 3, 2010)

Does anyone on the forums sell them?

Thanks


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

I don't know of anyone dougolasjr, but if you post a Want to Buy thread in the Swap and Shop subforum you might find someone. You can also order them online fairly easily. 

There is a place called Hawaii Opae Ula Farm that I bought some from and was happy with. They go for $1 a shrimp, basically, minimum order of 50. I wouldn't ship any shrimp that far with the current heat though, personally. One thing I liked about them was that they sent along a few pieces of lava rock that were already covered with algae that the shrimp actually want to eat. You can also get them from ebay for $1.50 or so, or from Ocean Rider for $2 each (as feeders for seahorses.)

My first batch came from ebay, not the guy who is always listing on there now, but a different seller. I wish I could get ahold of her to see if she has anymore to offer, but I haven't been able to do so, unfortunately. She had both the white and red color morphs, and I'm very eager to keep both going in my tank.


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

*The shrimp don't care about 1.005*

It's been awhile, and they are just fine. I also moved them into a larger container last week and like with everything else, they took it in their stride. I think I am going to stick to 1.005 as many plants can tolerate that and I am a chicken about fresh water after having these guys so long. Right now willow moss, frog bit, and a nana petite are there for them. Does anyone know where to get a black mountain-looking 2"x3" rock? I'd like to have it as a focal point in the new container with their salvaged algae-covered small lava rock pile behind it.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

I've thought about getting some of these myself. Had marine aquaria years ago, including a very tame and interactive octopus. My bud, King Tut. 

I have seen these shrimp for sale in our forum, a time or two.


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## eco (Feb 23, 2012)

I can sell you some or a lot!


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

*Tempting...*



eco said:


> I can sell you some or a lot!


What parameters? Specific gravity, specifically?


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

*most people seem to keep them at 1.012 to 1.015*

I have kept mine anywhere from pure saltwater (an early miscomminacation from the seller) to the above for quite awhile and then down to 1.008 for quite awhile and now 1.005 for a few months. I went lower for two reasons: I have a brackish crab in another tank which requires it at 1.005 and now I don't have two different batches to mix up and I wanted a few brackish water tolerant plants in there with them. They enjoy them. Many have posted that they will also tolerate fresh water. A seller in HI suggest 1.010. As you can see, they are not picky.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

I've ordered some online since my last post. Been drooling over the thought of having some for months. Willing (more than!) to buy some from someone willing (hint, hint!) to sell some here in our forum! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy III using Tapatalk 2


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

Rob in Puyallup said:


> I've ordered some online since my last post. Been drooling over the thought of having some for months. Willing (more than!) to buy some from someone willing (hint, hint!) to sell some here in our forum!
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy III using Tapatalk 2


 When I die, I'm deeding mine to James Patterson.

If you don't have a sustantial amount of the short green algae in your tank/conatainer for them--grab some spirulina powder from a health food store to tide them over til it grows. They do eat bio film too but that might not be enough, esp. if you ordered a lot. Just put a TINY amount of powder on top of the water with a toothpick like once a week. They really do not eat much.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

I ordered 50 shrimp with live rock, "live" water and the rest. I have set up a Bookshelf tank (it's plastic and will probably scratch like crazy with the rock). I put live sand, live rubble and some cultured live rock in it. Have an airstone blowing and a fluorescent burning for about 12 hours daily to encourage algal growth. 

Would like to know what plants will live in this tank, and hope to have some snails in it to help keep the algae under some control. 

I'm really excited about trying these guys after having a bit of success with cherries, tigers, blueberries and crystals! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy III using Tapatalk 2


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I'd try some nerites, some can transition between fresh and salt. I would think any macros that can grow in shallow water would deal with some fluctuating. Maybe turtle or shoal grass.

If you use crushed coral substrates or aragonite sand don't think you need to add calcium supplements or buffer the water. 

Saltwater mix contain calcium depending on the brand, levels vary. 

www.live-plants.com sell a good amount of macros but most are out of season. I never purchased from them.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Fantastic Mach! Thanks for the link... I had caulerpa years ago. Don't think anything grows as fast as that!


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

horned nerites do great at 1.005. Don't know about above that. The larger nerites would probably wipe out your algae needed for the shrimp. Japanese moss balls, nanas, java ferns, all the mosses do well at that sp. gravity too. Above that, I think it's Japanese moss balls up to about 1.010 and java fern up to about that. You could always try the others and see. I've had willow moss and the moss balls do fine at 1.008.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Thanks Koi, my tank is in the 1.012 and 1.014 range. 

I'm thinking of sticking to the pair of MTS and macro algae at this point. I do have a small java fern in the tank, watching it closely, though. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


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## Koi Kameon (Apr 25, 2010)

*HRS>freshwater ends in massacre*

Yep, it's pretty easy, just plop them into fresh water and they live. There's no need for acclimating them, at least in my experience.[/QUOTE]

Uh, no not for me this week. I had spent 2 mos. acclimating them from 1.005 sp (same as my brackish crab) and got it down to 1.002. I wanted to keep them in the container that I have a couple of newbie blue jellies in. I figured with the proper back and forth of adding water from each container into a separate container and then gently scooping them out with a plastic spoon all should go well. I kept their container up for 48 hours in case of emergency. They seemed fine, so I took it down. Colors were good. They were feeding, etc. They all died between the night of 48 hours to 72 hours. At first I thought maybe the two jellies had gone rogue, but no, I saw the last of the HRS die right in front of me. Good coloring, swimming around as I am removing dead shrimp parts and suddenly he is on the floor in a u-shape unable to move his back legs which quickly progressed to his front. It really saddened me as I had had my HRS for years.

I don't think you can move them down to freshwaterish and then put them in a different tank that is established and freshwater. Something was off, but it took several days to get them. I was leery of just moving them without acclimating them bc on some website somewhere, a guy in HI had bought some at a store not realizing they had been kept in brackish water there and he dropped them in his tank and they died in 24 hours.

Maybe mine were just too old to handle the adaptation. They could adapt to all kinds of brackish sp readings though...I would suggest someone lowering them to freshwater and then leaving them in that same tank and bringing the plants they want in to that tank, but since freshwater shrimp are so sensitive to salt, not more shrimp.

Maybe it was the almond leaf, although the container was still in the low 7's for pH....

I am going to be taking a break from them for a while. That was a bit of a shock.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

Koi Kameon said:


> I am going to be taking a break from them for a while. That was a bit of a shock.


I'm sorry to hear that they didn't make it; that's awful. 

I put a note on my earlier comment in case people decide to give this a go - just so that they know that while it went well for me it didn't for you.


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