# 40g breeder newbie



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Medium light is not compatible with non-CO2. As the light intensity goes up, the plant growth rates go up enough that atmospheric CO2 is not enough to support those growth rates. Much better to stick to low to low medium light. At 40 breeder is about 16 inches high, so you need to stick to lights that, at 16 inches, give low to low medium light, or suspend the lights high enough to reduce the intensity to low to low medium. A single T5HO light or a 2 bulb T5NO light would need to be about 22 inches from the substrate to give low enough light. Some of the older PC fixtures, which have poor reflectors, would give about the right amount of light sitting on top of the tank.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

massimo said:


> This will be my first attempt at a planted tank. I just picked up a 40g breeder, and this is my plan so far:
> 
> *Substrate:* mix of eco-complete and moon sand. I plan on adding some driftwood and rocks as well
> 
> ...


Substrate: I would use either Eco or Sand. You can get Flourite Black Sand for a comparable price also. I would still use root-tabs with these.
Me personally, if i was spending money on substrate, I would buy ADA Aquasoil, or Azoo, or another more soil type. 
If I wanted to save $, but still grow nice plants, I would use Pool filter sand & root tabs.

Filter: Get a canister. I like Eheims, you can find one relatively cheap on [Ebay Link Removed]

Lighting: A 54w T5HO bulb is 48", you need a 36". 36" T5HO are 39w. I would shop around a little, try looking at Catalina website, they're very popular & will custom build it.

CO2 & Ferts: I recommend DIY CO2 if using dry ferts (EI method i would & do use) 
If you don't want, then try the flourish line or Pfertz.

HTH :icon_mrgr


_*EDIT: Ninjad by Hoppy! lol... Listen to Hoppy, he gives very good & spot on advice.*_


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## massimo (Dec 12, 2010)

> At 40 breeder is about 16 inches high, so you need to stick to lights that, at 16 inches, give low to low medium light, or suspend the lights high enough to reduce the intensity to low to low medium. A single T5HO light or a 2 bulb T5NO light would need to be about 22 inches from the substrate to give low enough light.


Thanks! That's what I needed to know



> A 54w T5HO bulb is 48", you need a 36". 36" T5HO are 39w.


Hmm, can I use a 48" bulb anyway? It seems like that would be a cheap, easy way to go. 

I'm not really sure about the substrate, but I'll look into the sand + root tabs, and I've been keeping an eye out for Eheims filters, I'm sure I'll find one on [Ebay Link Removed] I might venture into DIY CO2 eventually, once I know what I'm doing, but I'll stick to lower light plants for a while I think.


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## massimo (Dec 12, 2010)

Ok, so I've been doing some more research, and I think for substrate I think I'll do some peat and laterite under a layer of 2-3mm gravel, and just use root tabs. Anything wrong with this?


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## Svynx (Nov 8, 2010)

I was just in your exact situation. I have a GLO fixture, with 2 T5HO bulbs. It will be hanging. I don't have the money right now for Co2.
But, as far as substrate: look into the natural stuff. I'm using "Miracle Gro Organic Choice potting mix" Purchased at Home Depot. I topped it with "Aqua Terra" sand. I did buy some laterite, but didn't use it after more research. I think I spent about $50 total, and I need to take a bag of potting mix back.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Svynx said:


> I was just in your exact situation. I have a GLO fixture, with 2 T5HO bulbs. It will be hanging. I don't have the money right now for Co2.
> But, as far as substrate: look into the natural stuff. I'm using "Miracle Gro Organic Choice potting mix" Purchased at Home Depot. I topped it with "Aqua Terra" sand. I did buy some laterite, but didn't use it after more research.


I did something similar with substrate but used Scott's tops soil originally and topped with river sand. With the addition of Reptile coconut bark on the bottom total was $8. This 3rd set up added laterite on the bottom. Why didn't you use the laterite? 

Have read that diy Co2 can only be balanced on tanks 30G and below. Read javatank doses with club soda. I am trying this with Sheltz sodium free sodium in 29G tank.


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## massimo (Dec 12, 2010)

> But, as far as substrate: look into the natural stuff. I'm using "Miracle Gro Organic Choice potting mix" Purchased at Home Depot. I topped it with "Aqua Terra" sand.


How much did you use? How long have you had the tank? I've heard using too much can cause anaerobic conditions or algae blooms. I'd like to use soil, but I'm just a little worried.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

massimo said:


> How much did you use? How long have you had the tank? I've heard using too much can cause anaerobic conditions or algae blooms. I'd like to use soil, but I'm just a little worried.


There is a whole section on tanks using dirt in El Natural section on APC forum. Here is how Ms Walstad does hers. 

I mainly get algae when I over feed the fish.


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## Svynx (Nov 8, 2010)

I haven't even put water in the tank yet. As far as anaerobic areas go, that usually isn't a problem as long as you keep the soil under 1.5"-2" in depth. My total substrate ranges between 2"-3.5" depending on where you measure from. I used 2 full 8 quart bags of the potting soil.
Laterite: In my situation, the laterite isn't needed because the potting soil does the work. It's an option, but not necessary.


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## massimo (Dec 12, 2010)

I think you two have swayed me on soil. I'll give it a try.


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## Svynx (Nov 8, 2010)

If you want a hill, put small pebbles there before putting the soil in. That will keep that area from going anaerobic.


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## Svynx (Nov 8, 2010)

Here is the detailed reason I didn't use Laterite. This is taken out of an email I got from Sweet Aquatics. We were talking about using the potting soil along with the Laterite:

The problem with adding an iron-rich underlayer (like laterite clay) is that the bacteria in the soil will free it too quickly, and can actually cause problems with too much iron. Possibly algae blooms, and worst case would be dead fish due to iron toxicity. Soil has some iron, and fish food has an amazingly high amount. Bacteria in the soil will break down the excess food, and make it into a form usable by plants.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Svynx said:


> The problem with adding an iron-rich under layer (like laterite clay) is that the bacteria in the soil will free it too quickly, and can actually cause problems with too much iron. Possibly algae blooms, and worst case would be dead fish due to iron toxicity.


Interesting!! After set up with laterite I had string algae. Used Scott's top soil ,which probably doesn't have iron, and the old substrate, which has organic charcoal in it. At thread here was told string algae was probably to over feeding fish. In the 2 years had tank up never had string algae. Thought the difference was feeding apistogramma cichlid. I logically initially thought cause of algae to be the laterite.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Svynx said:


> . My total substrate ranges between 2"-3.5" depending on where you measure from. I used 2 full 8 quart bags of the potting soil.
> Laterite: In my situation, the laterite isn't needed because the potting soil does the work. It's an option, but not necessary.


I find the addition of reptile coconut bark cuts down dosing of Seachem excel from 6ml daily to 4ml daily. This is for 10 G tank


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## Svynx (Nov 8, 2010)

I'm going for a "no fert" tank if at all possible. I'm taking some tap water to get tested, and I hope it has enough "nastyness" that the plants will have plenty of things to use to grow. Although adding the bark might help. I'll look into it.

Anyway, my apologies massimo for thread-jacking.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Svynx said:


> I'm going for a "no fert" tank if at all possible. Although adding the bark might help. I'll look into it.


At some pet stores it is $3. Cost just seems to depend on the brand. Tanks I have seen that don't dose ferts usually have well water. Ferns, moss, and anubias don't need much to survive. I had them in a 10 gallon tank in a south window with no light or dosing ferts.

Oh, also if you have high ph, low gh and kh adding potassium nitrate and baking soda in the substrate helps. For 10 gallon I use 1 cup of each.


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## massimo (Dec 12, 2010)

> Anyway, my apologies massimo for thread-jacking.


Not at all, I'd like to know how your tank works out. I might end up doing the same thing.


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## mkiiisupradude (Nov 15, 2010)

Club soda, thats about as low tech as co2 gets! i cant believe more people arent doing that. 
I think it would be interesting to find out what a daily dose would be. no bottles, no mixes, no needle valves or filling tanks. just hit isle 4 once in a while to stock up and feed your fish and plants together... 
I wonder if this could work as an algea remedy?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

mkiiisupradude said:


> Club soda, thats about as low tech as co2 gets! i cant believe more people arent doing that.
> I think it would be interesting to find out what a daily dose would be. no bottles, no mixes, no needle valves or filling tanks. just hit isle 4 once in a while to stock up and feed your fish and plants together...
> I wonder if this could work as an algea remedy?


This gets discussed often, and the consensus is always the same - it isn't cost effective, or even very effective as a source of CO2.


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