# Didiplis diandra



## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

I've had this plant for a month or so and having a hard time getting it to grow, 
Is there an ancient secret to this plant? it will seem to be doing fine then just start rotting at the stem base, cut, prune, re-plant, clean up mess, will seem to start growing good then bam same thing again.

My tank perims are in check

flourite substrate

dosing: iron, flourish, potassium, kn03,p04 and root tabs, ordered some Plantex from gregwatson.com should be here tomarrow, will try some of that too.

as for lighting I have tried 192w pc then added an allglass with 3 aqua rays F30WT8-AR-FS, a 90watt fixture totaling 282 watts over a 46g tank
DIY co2 w/homemade reactor on the output flow of canister. (photoperiod 12hours)

I'm begining to think it is the DIY C02 any clues? ideas? experience =D

Who is familuar with this plant? and did you have any luck?


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## pineapple (Jan 22, 2004)

Didiplis diandra has delicate stems which easily get damaged when planting in Flourite. I experienced a bit of trouble with this in the past and now tend to plant in a sandy layer overlying a Flourite base.

Also, I noticed that even if the lower planted stem turns black and rots, very often the upper plant puts down ‘water’ roots into the substrate thereby keeping the upper part of the plant alive. When that has grown some height, I nip the top off and replant it – and remove the old basal section.

Otherwise, I have found it easy to grow in New York City’s very soft water along with high lights (3.66 wpg) and DIY CO2.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

It is a 'cool water' plant that requires a lot of light. You can keep if from turning black if you provide excessive amounts of light and keep the water below 74°F. If the water temp rises above this for an extended time, the plant acts like summer has come and it goes through the seasonal cycle. It is a temperate North American plant after all.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

It didn't even dawn on me about the temp, thanks for that info, I bet thats it, i keep my tank around 80/82 degree.


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Well even though, it is from a temperate zone, I have found that this plant grows like a weed under metal halides. I must say though it would be of real benefit to have pressurised CO2 especially with that amount of light.

In my tank I run the temp at 81-82F and it does not have a problem. So this might be a problem for you but I would think that light is not getting to the lower stem and this is causing the bulk of your problem. Rounded substrate also helps with this plant too; so you may want to consider this also.

Paul


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## pauline29 (May 2, 2004)

I've got the Diplidis planted but also with the same problems of rotting. Simply bring it back up and cut up the rotting part then replant. I use river sand so quite loose and easy without hurting the stem if done gently. Yes, CO2 is extremely important since its a reddish plant. Lighting also a must and u can see the upper half of the stem growing pinkish leaves.

Temperature is not too demanding for this plant. Sometimes my tank is as high as 88F/31C but still grows like crazy! There's a time when I needed to prune once a week!


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## pineapple (Jan 22, 2004)

The temperature in the tank in which my Didiplis diandra is growing gets as low as 68F and as high as 86F, according to the season. I understand that this is a plant more common in the south of the USA. Temperatures in lakes can fluctuate quite a bit and I would not be surprised if they reach quite high levels in the shallows.


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

You have 6 WPG with DIY ! ??

Too much light ??

Bahr recommends 2-3 WPG.


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## Verminaard (Dec 4, 2003)

I had a few bunches about 2 months ago. It was very healthy when I received it but I just simply had no luck with it. I had the same problems you had (rotting, blackening, etc.). I eventually gave up. I have somewhat hard water :gh-14, kh-15, maybe that had something to do with its demise.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

I still have my fingers crossed, its looking good on top, I can run my tank with 2 or 4+ or 6+ watts per gal, I know I am getting 100% C02 dessolution with the yeast, 2/2ltr bottles changed weekly.

Everything else I have tried to grow boomed with no problem, jury is not in yet, but im betting on it being pressurized C02 :roll: with 2 younger daughters in highschool oldest in college along with my misses, im not ready to fork over $200 for presssurized system just so I can grow this plant. but who knows...eh! :wink:


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## FobbyBobby (Mar 7, 2004)

could it be potassium deficiency?? i heard that signs of it can be seen in the decay of old growth, and since potassium is usually not found very much in water unless you add it...it caaan be! i duno maybe im wrong, just throwing out an idea


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

This Peter Hiscock book says "Light: Very Bright Temperature: 75-92 F Difficulty 3 (hardest).

The book recommends good lighting and an availble source of iron. It prefers fine substrate. High light and the end will become red.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Thanks for the reply's all 
I don't have a way of determining the amount of Potasium, but I do know that the water column has it via KN03,KH2PO4,K2SO4 have also used Flourish Potasium.
I should do a search for a reliable tester :?: 

I've ran my lights from medium to very bright, I have read about the light Very Bright, but what exactly is "Very Bright"! MH only? curious, hmmm, I run between 4 and 7 watts per gallon. 

I knew it was a difficult plant through the NFO I have read www.tropica.com I lowered the temp to 78 degree per Sean's post :idea: ,
I have been dosing 2 to 3ml of iron week with Flourish Iron, and started dosing CMS+B today.
I also have black sand mixed with flourite, surely that isn't to corse? but then again it is a delicate plant.
There shouldn't be a problem growing this plant, unless my 1 weakness which is DIY C02 holding me back.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

I stuck 3 flourish root tabs under this plant, it is finally showing signs of life.. so far it helped alot!!
Very little stem rot now


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

One week later and it has doubled, I think I got it figured out...awesome little plants it is!!


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Okay, I understand the problem of lower stems rotting from lack of light, but the problem I'm having is the tips rotting. The original stems that I got have tripled in height and width, but on numerous stems it'll start turning black about 1/2" from the tip. I've been trimming the rotted tips off and the remaining stem seems to be producing side shoots so it doesn't appear terminal. But it does look bad to see these black tips.










This is in my 40gal tank with two 96W PC strips (10000K and 8800K). I dose 1ml of Flourish every other day, plus KNO3 and PO4 to keep levels at 5ppm and .5ppm. I also add about 3ppm K2SO4 twice a week, and 2ml of Flourish Iron once a week. kH is 3.5, gH is 13, pH is 6.9. Water temp is 79°-82°. Everything else is doing great so maybe this is just not a plant for my tank? 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Bill

Full tank shot:


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Your tank looks very good!
From the looks of the nodes on the plant, it looks like it is growing slow, try to get it to grow faster by placing some fert spikes under it,

It seems to have made a big difference for me when I started adding Plantex CSM+B you can purchase this stuff @ www.gregwatson.com for cheap!

Your tank perims look good except kh, throw ya in a little less than a 1/2 teaspoon Backing Soda to get that up to 4 or 5 on that 40 gal.

with that amount of light, are you injecting C02?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Thanks. Yeah, I have pressurized CO2 with an external reactor. When you mention raising the kh, are you meaning that I should look at increasing the CO2 concentration?

I didn't add any fert sticks beneath the stand mainly because there used to be a group of sword plants there an I had previously inserted some (about a month and a half ago). Maybe it's time to do a "recharge". Isn't CSM+B a trace mix, similar to Flourish?


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## corigan (Feb 22, 2004)

bharada said:


> Thanks. Yeah, I have pressurized CO2 with an external reactor. When you mention raising the kh, are you meaning that I should look at increasing the CO2 concentration?


He is referring to Carbonate Hardness, that can be raised by using such products as baking soda. Do a search on the forum as there is atleast a good 30+ posts out there explaining how to raise your KH.




> I didn't add any fert sticks beneath the stand mainly because there used to be a group of sword plants there an I had previously inserted some (about a month and a half ago). Maybe it's time to do a "recharge". Isn't CSM+B a trace mix, similar to Flourish?


CSM+B is indeed a trace mix similar to flourish, and much cheaper as well might I add. It contains quite a bit more Fe than flourish does though. I've posted this link all over the forum, but here is is again for a comparison of the common trace mixes being used out there:

http://www.gpodio.com/fert_table.asp

Enjoy,

Matt


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

I understand the process of raising the kh using baking soda. I just haven't read anything on D. diandra that suggests that it needs a high kh to thrive. With the mention of injecting CO2 and raising my kh I was trying to get clarification on whether he thought my CO2 concentration wasn't high enough to support the plant with the lighting I run...but then, this wouldn't be the first time I was a victim of my own faulty logic. 

On the CSM+B mix: if it contains more Fe than Flourish I'll need to think about it before replacing Flourish with it. I already have a hard time with hair algae buildup on my driftwood (it really goes into overdrive whenever I dose any Flourish Fe).


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

When I mentioned raising kh. it was more so to help get your tank within target range.. with a kh of 3.5 and a ph of 6.9 that puts your C02 at 13.219ppm ( below target) which in turn can lead to some problems, target for C02 is 15 to 30 ppm. 
Since you mention hair algae after adding iron that is another sign that your not within target range.. and or your over-dosing, your gh is a little high but do-able no less.

Flourish is good stuff I agree, I have been using it for awhile also, But since I started dosing Plantex CSM, I have noticed a conciderable difference in plant growth and overall health specifiaclly with the D.Diandra and the rest of my plants too. I dont dose the flourish like I was since I started using the plantex, flourish is good, but plantex is way better. from what I have experienced with my tank.

I bet if you get that kh up a bit and watch the ferts close, your hair algae will vanish.

And with some tanks its better to dry dose, just makes it easier to control which fert your adding.

Quote:With the mention of injecting CO2 and raising my kh I was trying to get clarification on whether he thought my CO2 concentration wasn't high enough to support the plant with the lighting I run End Quote.

That about sums it up, your c02 & kh are below target.

Keep us informed on how it goes roud: 

I keep my 46g with 2/96 watt CF within the target range as close as I can get it with these $10 test kits and it works, I have no algae, rarley have to even clean the glass on the tank, water is crystal clear plants pearl and grow like mad.

Cheers!

Craig


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Thanks, Craig. I'll up my CO2 concentration and see how it goes. As for the hair algae, I finally realized that the excess iron is leaching out of the laterite that has been pulled up in the gravel due to me recontouring the grave/positioning driftwood/pulling out swords/etc. Hopefully upping the CO2 concentration will lean out the iron in the water and starve off the algae.

Wish me luck.

Bill


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

You bet buddy  & Good luck!


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Week 2 and still growing good since introducing Plantex CSM+B with regular pruning. Starting to make a nice foreground.


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

Looking good, glad you got it figured out.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Interesting use of diandra for the foreground , that will require a lot of trimming to keep it that way, once this stuff gets happy it really takes off and grows long stems. 
As you are finding out Im sure, when it gets a trim the plant throws out side stems rapidly and that is what created my problems with shading of its lower leafs which caused it to shed the lower leaves. Before long I had 12" stems with only the top 4" having leaves and the bottom 7-8" were bare...
The tops however were beautiful with a lot of red hues. Elevated CO2 and iron levels I found made the tips get colorful. I think it is best used as a fill plant behind lower growing mid ground plants, that way there the bottoms dont ever need to be of concern. 

I definately enjoyed experiencing this plant in my tank. :icon_bigg


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Howdy Buck

Good to see ya on the boards again 
I see you have had experience with this plant..lol 
you nailed it, it is a high maintanance plant, no doubt! I have found you "must" keep it trimmed, and it grows fast. 
I am going to try doing a foreground with it, if I can keep up  

I am having fun with the plant for now though..:fish:


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Glad to see you're having success. Unfortunately mine is history. I pulled the lot today hoping to find a few healthy stems, but what was there wasn't worth making space for. Part of the die off was due the the micranthemoide "hedge" that had developed next to it. In any event, the resulting space allowed me give my alternanthera a bit more space.

What I'd like to try next is some of the needle-type leafed Ludwigia ('cuba'?). Anyone have any ideas where to get some?


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## chrisl (May 6, 2004)

Craig, Yup, I too am having a bit of a rough time w/ my Didiplis. Dosing csmb and flourish 15ml total 3x/wk. Think I'll try some root tabs like you did. Used the whole piece?

Chris


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Hi Chris
Sorry to hear your having trouble also 
Yes use the whole cube, I actually placed several in the vicinity, 4" to 6" apart,
Are you dosing any K2S04? also try trimming them, replant tops, leaving the rooted system to sprout sideshoots.


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## chrisl (May 6, 2004)

No Craig, I stopped the kso4 after reading about alot of people saying that the K in kno3 is enough. Im dosing this: 1/2tsp kno3 and 1/8tsp monophosph. 3x/wk., and 10ml's csmb w/ 5ml Flourish 3xwk. Also giving 3tbsp of Hco3 for low kh value I got from local water supply. 
Accord. to the Chuck's Calc, I'm giving 11ppms of K thru kno3 alone.

I got


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## clay (Nov 28, 2003)

has anyone noticed the little red flowers between each leaf? i did not realize what those were until a fellow plant geek informed us all at a local fish club meeting.


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