# API Algae fix and moss



## antbug

chad320 said:


> I had a pretty major catastrophe this Summer in my moss that caused a bunch of hair algae. Has anyone used API Algaefix with their moss and would know which ones it will kill for sure? I know its not safe with snails or shrimp, but has anyone rinsed the moss and tossed it into a shrimp tank without losses? Just thought id test the waters here before I begin testing at home. Thanks!


PM Tom. He was using this on one of his tanks. Not sure if moss was present.


----------



## chad320

Ok. I did a search and got the usual answer of "you need to fix the root of the problem" Well the root of the problem was that I couldnt get to them to adjust for evaporation or adjust ferts or Co2, so the cause of it is fixed. And I could sick the army of Amanos on them, but it would take alot of time that I dont have. I am really just wondering if some of the tender algaes like Pellia, Mini Pellia, and Rosemoss will make it. If any Taxiphyllum sp. will survive, I would assume all of them will. I hope theres good feedback on this thread or its going to become a little experiment thread in the next few weeks


----------



## chad320

Well after some research, it seems that it doesnt contain Copper. It limits O2 intake to inverts so I am going to assume that if its treated in quarantine, then rinsed, and returned to the tank, it will be safe for shrimp. I will experiment with this as well. As for now, the Algaefix is ordered and awaiting arrival. When it gets here I will post up pictures and results from samples of all 22 varieties of moss/liverworts that I keep and see which ones work well with it and which ones melt. If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to chime in. Remember that this treatment is for hair algae only though.


----------



## sayurasem

Maybe rinse/ soak afterward with water + prime mix? It works on bleached purigen. Although I never try algae fix.


----------



## james1542

Depends on the kind of hair algae you have. Hydrogen peroxide could kill some of them, or flourish excel, or bleach. If you have fixed the root of the problem, usually the best course of action is to prune off any algae covered leaves/moss and wait for it to grow back.

I have always loathed these algae killer products, right up there with pH down, and those cloudy water reducers as one of the stupidest products on the market, but of course that is just my op.


----------



## chad320

sayurasem said:


> Maybe rinse/ soak afterward with water + prime mix? It works on bleached purigen. Although I never try algae fix.


API says its invert safe after 48 hours. I will experiment with some culls to see if this is true. I will for sure quarantine to treat, then rinse before putting it in with shrimp. If it will kill shrimp I would think it would be fairly fast, as in a few days. Good idea on the prime, I have no idea how effective it would be against Algaefix either.



james1542 said:


> Depends on the kind of hair algae you have. Hydrogen peroxide could kill some of them, or flourish excel, or bleach. If you have fixed the root of the problem, usually the best course of action is to prune off any algae covered leaves/moss and wait for it to grow back.
> 
> I have always loathed these algae killer products, right up there with pH down, and those cloudy water reducers as one of the stupidest products on the market, but of course that is just my op.


I am with you on the products. I dont like them either and havent used them since my beginning plant days years and years ago. I have a major dilemma now. I have 22 kinds of moss. Each kind is tied to its own 3 foot dowel rod. They are smothered in algae. Theres way too much to pick it other than some basic pulling and twisting with a skewer. Theres also too much for Amanos to eat. H2O2 was a consideration, as was Excel(doesnt work for this hair algae) and bleach but they kill the moss as well. What I was hoping for here was an easy answer like "Yes, I used it and it killed all of my Pellia." but it looks like I have to use a cup and sample each one individually. If it works, the shrimp test will follow with culls for the experiment.


----------



## plantbrain

In this case, it will work as suggested when used as directed.
Busan 77 is the herbicide name.

It had no impact on any mosses I've tried it on(about 6 species), nor any plant, kills shrimp moderately well, maybe 50-60% losses. Had no impact on a wide range of touchy fish.

You cannot beat this algae with black outs or dips really.
You toast the moss.

Algae eaters are some what effective but most that eat hair algae well.........also eat moss.

Moss gets algae bad and it entangles, making it nearly impossible to remove. I'm hardly the algicide promoter, but this does work as it says, stay away from the copper though.

You still need to address the root or plan on using this stuff every so often and have less than optimal growth.


----------



## chad320

Thanks for the feedback Tom. I did well with the mosses until I had my accident this Summer and couldnt get to them for a few months. So the root of the problem is solved. I am only concerned with getting back to where I was with them. I guess if Taxiphyllum mosses are fine theres no need to experiment with them. I am a little concerned about Rosemoss, Mini Rosemoss, Pellia, Mini Pellia, Subwassertang, Riccia, Mini Riccia, Queen moss, Notocyphus, and the varieties of Fissidens.


----------



## iscerus

I can vouch that it works on hair algae. Surprisingly, doesn't work on Marimo balls. Yeah, I accidentally left the ball in the tank when I put the Algaefix in (the 2nd time I dosed didn't hurt it either). Also the tank had mosses and those weren't hurt.

My Marimos have lasted through multiple H2O2, Excel and Algaefix treatments. It suffices to say, if it ever becomes a pest...I'm in trouble.


----------



## chad320

Thanks iscerus. Im pretty sure Marimo is a form of Clado and would likely be hard to kill. I would however like to know if you know what varieties of moss you had in the tank when you treated?


----------



## Tom Barr

I would doubt it has any impact when used as directed on moss. 

It did not kill Cladaphora IME, test.

Gettign those last bits of hair algae is tough,m so this product actually works well and takes care of the remainder's that can hang o for about 1-2 months, even if you are very aggressive. So it can be cured with chemicals, but.........it is extremely hard to do labor wise and even worse with moss.


----------



## iscerus

I had a little java and an unidentified moss in that tank.

I got the unidentified moss from Manini; and he thinks it's spikey moss, but is unsure. It's a really nice moss. I suppose I should get some pictures of it some time.

Also, I note that while it didn't affect the Marimo ball (clado algae)...it absolutely nuked the hair algae. All the hair algae was dead within a day.


----------



## chad320

If you can get a pic and its something I dont have id like to trade you some moss. I have alot of varieties. All of them are also emergent so you wont get any hair algae with yours


----------



## chad320

I got the API algaefix in the mail today so the testing will begin tonight. Ill post up some pics later this evening when I get it all set up.


----------



## h4n

Subscribed!

I can't wait to see the results!


-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


----------



## chad320

First off, let me start this portion of the thread by saying I DO NOT advocate the use of this stuff. I have been keeping planted tanks for two decades and have never owned a bottle of this stuff. For multiple good reasons with the biggest being good tanks dont need it. At all. Period. But the porpose of using it is this. I was hit by a truck this Summer on my bicycle. that left me unable to get down the stairs to maintain my moss collection. There are 22 kinds of moss, tied to 3 foot dowel rods. Its alot of moss. My reservior tub ran dry, burned up my $130 pump, and my moss collection got hair algae so bad you almost couldnt tell what moss was what. Some of them I only salvaged a small golfball of. This product is my final attemp at recouping some of my losses. I didnt need this stuff before, and I wont need it after, but this is just too much algae to pick by hand or Amano. That being said, heres what were looking at...
The main ingredient in this stuff is Poly[oxyethylene(dimethylimino)ethelyne(dimeethylimino)ethylene dichloride]
Go ahead and say it twice to make sure you got it, ok? 
It say to use 1ml per 10g. Thats a pretty small amout and it sure seems like one drop could OD the whole thing but whatever the directions say is what I did. I used established tank water in a new 10g to mix it. I then added it to seperate specimen containers to see what, if any, moss/liverworts its going to melt. It say to repet the dose every three days until the algae is under control. Here are the test specimens...

Riccia










GDA/GSA










Pellia










Fissidens










Mini Rose moss with bad hair algae










Willow










Notocyphus










BBA










Xmas










Spirogyra algae










Blue Green algae










Blanket Clado










Mini Pellia










Rosemoss










Subwassertang










Queen moss










Taiwan










Who has all of these algaes hanging around the house??? I do!  I will be sending samples to Sewingalot for proper IDs through a microscope, but im pretty sure of the IDs for now. I will correct anything that might be wrong if she proves me wrong(as usual)  So this is day one. I will repeat the treatment every three days until i want my kitchen table back :hihi:


----------



## AoxomoxoA

:hihi: lmao Chad. That _is_ a really nice collection of *algae* you have there too 

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.


----------



## chad320

Lol, I warned you at the top of the post that things went South this Summer. *OH, MY EYES!!! Theyre BURNING from the algae!!!*:hihi:


----------



## iscerus

Good luck chad, thanks for the help with that moss! I just set up my hex splitter on a 20# tank so 6 more tanks should end up in my siggy within a few months.


----------



## chad320

Thanks and no problem! 6 tanks? Wow! Nice work! I cant wait to see them get set up. LOTS of pictures 

Theres a little progress this morning already. The Spiro is all curled up and the BGA looks melted pretty bad. Ill get some more pics up tonight.


----------



## jester56

I've been using the API stuff since I saw this thread, Chad. it hasn't hurt any fish or plants. I've actually seen a little improvement. I use the instructed dose in my 50 along with Flourish Excel as directed. It has eliminated the hair, turned the majority of the BBA red and much more palatable to the snails and the tough matted green algae brought its stool and mike on stage to tell jokes about how it was "Bubba" to API in their fight... Didn't touch it. I ended up pulling plants and hand picking the stuff off. 

This thread has been extremely informative and interesting... Thanks for sharing it all. Looking forward to more!


----------



## Tom Barr

Chad, I've already tested it on those moss/liverworts without issues.

A couple I do not have, but the others, I do, some are pest species which I have not removed in some tanks, while others I actively keep.

If it killed things like "Pellia", Riccia, and some moss, I'd actually be very pleased. 

Or snails.........

I also tested a single 1x time dose and it had no impact on Fire shrimp.
I spot treated some moss and then refilled the tank during a water change. Killed the algae and did no harm to anything else.

This treatment works if you catch the earliest stages of the hair algae growth.


----------



## chad320

Well so far, as you guys said, the mosses seem to be taking it well. The Spiro, BBA, GDA/GSA, and hair algae seem to be taking it rough already. I really didnt expect this stuff to kill Blanket Clado. I am going to wait the recommended 3 days, then im going to nuke the crap out of the mosses and Clado and see what it takes to kill them. Any suggestions on a starting overdose amount? Tom says he spot treated, then refilled the tank and the moss didnt die so im guessing it will take alot. 5X the recommended amout to start?


----------



## HD Blazingwolf

Well, i just needed to clear some hair outta my rotala... api is a 4.6 % concentration.
i used tetra's brand. its 5.4 % and it says same dosage

i have around 36 gallons with my sump total volume. i put 4 ML in and fish/ plants are fine 3 days in. ammonia has't spiked.. so 1.5-2 x the reccommended amount would be a SAFE place to start i would think


----------



## m00se

Never had any luck with it working on BBA. I either have a super strain of it or.... It works well on GSA and hair, but BBA? Not in my experience. I called API and talked to a rep there and he told me it wasn't effective on it. YMMV

I've even overdosed it once by going past the recommended 3 day regimen. Don't do that. I nuked several of my crawling plants of which none survived. Had that not happened I could say confidently that everything in the tank lived through even the OD and looked healthy.


----------



## chad320

Hmmm....I cant say for sure yet Moose, but the BBA is grey instead of Black like it was yesterday. If it turns Red we will know for sure. what kind of crawling plants are you referring to?

HD, I will start with the double dose then  Dang. I wanted to nuke some stuff right away


----------



## m00se

Dwarf clover (marsilea minuta): http://goo.gl/UBD9j

and River Buttercup (ranunculus inundatus): http://goo.gl/d8ucO

Two of my favorite cool looking plants, too. It wasn't overnight. I had large areas of my tank floor covered with both, as they were well established. Over 1-2 months they both died back to nothing. I had some of the clover in another tank so I could restart it but the buttercup...oh, my buttercup how I miss you so


----------



## chad320

Well good to know on the Marsilea. I have a whole carpet of that. I would hate to lose it.


----------



## ua hua

Very interesting thread indeed. Although I would be seriously surprised if it killed BBA. I have some of this that I have never used but bought it just so I have it. I try my hardest not to put too many chemicals in my tank and try to figure out the problem that the algae are there in the first place but there are times that you just need to go chemical warfare on some algae. I will be interested to see your results.


----------



## Tom Barr

chad320 said:


> Well so far, as you guys said, the mosses seem to be taking it well. The Spiro, BBA, GDA/GSA, and hair algae seem to be taking it rough already. I really didnt expect this stuff to kill Blanket Clado. I am going to wait the recommended 3 days, then im going to nuke the crap out of the mosses and Clado and see what it takes to kill them. Any suggestions on a starting overdose amount? Tom says he spot treated, then refilled the tank and the moss didnt die so im guessing it will take alot. 5X the recommended amout to start?


Cladophora is relatively easy if you can get at it, but if it's infested the moss, you might as well treat it like a Riccia infestation............pick pick pick.


----------



## Tom Barr

chad320 said:


> Any suggestions on a starting overdose amount? 5X the recommended amout to start?


I would Not recommend it at all, you will kill many things, it is a herbicide actually, but is selective at lower dosages to algae.

So you will kill all the inverts and the fish, then the plants.

Wiser to give it more time, wait a week etc and then see.
More is not usually wise with these types of herbicides.


----------



## drewsuf82

I'm with Tom here remember that your tank is a closed system what goes in you have to take out, I recently just about melted my jungle Val's in my fight against BBA, it was a painful lesson to learn


----------



## HD Blazingwolf

I'll add this here
i've done two doses of this, once before my water change, and once after. i've been dosing excel because my co2 distributer's compressor was down and i was without co2 for 2 weeks. needles to say, i got some hair and black algae on some leaves. i was lss concerned with black as it just needed to be trimmed off. the rotala looked pitiful and i didn't want to thrash that plant.

i missed a few spots of the black algaes when i did my water change this past time. tuesday was water day so i performed my trimmings, changed my filter pads after stirring up all the muck i could, chagned 80% water. added ferts, 3 ml of the tetra algaecide. and my co2 is back up and running. i continued my dosage of excel which was 5ml. lights were turned back to full on, instead of half (4 bulb fixture)

by thursday the few strands of black algae in the tank were red. TO MY UTTER SURPRISE. i'd love to get some samples to sewingalot. under bleach this stuff turns green. but its dead and red, and brittle at this point and rubs of with my fingernail now.

oh and my hair algae went POOF.. rotala is making a sharp recovery with lights and co2 back to where they should be


----------



## chad320

This is good news to hear. I like that some folks are sharing their experiences. Its not like ALL of us havent experienced the algae plague at some point. Useful information like this is what helps others to keep their stuff free and clear of the plague. As has been stated, Its no substitute for good practice, but sometimes you need that quick fix or boost to get things going back in the right direction. With that being said, I am going to switch water in the cups and give it another 3 days of treatment. Pictures to come tonight.


----------



## plantbrain

Well, generally, if you have hair algae, a minor annoyance= likely fairly good conditions for plants, but you should know what you did wrong/correct.

This will reduce the labor and the time to get rid of the annoyance.
So that has some real value with this type of algae. 

Root causes always should be addressed since good plant growth is what we are ultimately after.


----------



## chad320

plantbrain said:


> Well, generally, if you have hair algae, a minor annoyance= likely fairly good conditions for plants, but you should know what you did wrong/correct.
> 
> This will reduce the labor and the time to get rid of the annoyance.
> So that has some real value with this type of algae.
> 
> Root causes always should be addressed since good plant growth is what we are ultimately after.


100% Agreed!

After a 3 day treatment at regular dosage. I just started the second round of a 3 day treatment at regular dosage...

Spirogyra. Its dead but now I suspect I have the name of this one wrong 










BBA. It looks like its on the downhill slide, but Excel will kill this stuff in 3 days.










Hair algae on Mini Rose Moss is untouched.










Blanket Clado looking slightly weaker(or wishful thinking) 










Clado in Subwassertang holding strong.










I didnt put up the pics of the rest of the mosses that I shot the first round because they werent affected by the treatment at all. If one should start to show distress, ill post it up. Its nice to know some of these more delicate mosses arent affected by it. I was sure they would be. At least somewhat


----------



## plantbrain

The hair algae on the rose moss should die in the next 2-3 days, I gave things a week.

This assumes that the tank is actually running good CO2 etc, in those pics, it looks like just cups and water and maybe some light.

It took a little longer, 5-7 days, after the 1st treatment, but it did all die in a similar non CO2 test tank.


----------



## chad320

Yes, the tank this was pulled from has Co2. You are right, I didnt want to treat the whole tank with the possibility of melting down all the Mini Rose, so these are specimen containers(deli cups). Im not sure how much impact that will have versus a tanks conditions. 

EDIT: In a tank I should still be dosing the ferts at regular dose right?


----------



## plantbrain

I'd do everything the same in the planted tank. But I'd likely up to the CO2 progressively very slowly and obverse plants, fish carefully, never do this and then leave for the day etc. 

Hit with 3 doses, one each day, it will kill any green hair algae.
It had no effect on Cladophora, which is about as close to moss and plants are anything we ever see.

I've only seen 100% kill for 3 dose for the same stuff on the rose moss. 

If you catch the hair algae early on.....then 1 single dose and very few shrimp losses will occur.


----------



## m00se

I want to caution you once again, Chad. I wouldn't go beyond this last series of treatments for awhile. The problems I had happened when I ignored the directions on the bottle and went past the 3 day dosing/once a week top off. I went daily for a week, and that's when I got into trouble. YMMV of course. I would also continue fertilizing as well.


----------



## chad320

The bottle says 1 ml per 10g every three days. I am running it like this for now. I am going to up the dose to see if I can damage the Clado without damaging the moss later on, but its per directions for now. Its all experimental in cups for now. Theres no way I would risk the contents of ANY of my tanks for the price of a ten dollar bottle of evil.


----------



## chad320

Now im impressed. I see some of the tips on the blanket Clado is clear. AKA, dead. I already feel like ive won the battle of getting my moss collection back in order. Saving it from hair algae was the biggest battle and this is just a bonus effect. Some of the MP is hard to separate from the Clado it got from being split up and tied on a dowel rod.


----------



## HD Blazingwolf

I guess i should post a picture of some of this dead algae  i just gotta find some


----------



## plantbrain

Chad, I did a similar thing, same similar experiences........ the next step was a real live planted tank with fish and shrimps.

The shrimps took a real beating, did not all die, but.....I would not suggets anyone do it with shrimp they do not care to lose.

Same result for myself and most folks I've spoken to, the product has very consistent results.

Which is rather surprising given the poor history of snake oil algae cure. But it's pretty limited to green hair algae.


----------



## chad320

Tom, nice to se youve got your account back  This is one snake oil I can sure put good use to right now. And hopefully never again!


----------



## ChadRamsey

any up dates on this experiment?


----------



## Cardinal's Keeper

Sorry for the resurrection, but I have read all I can find on the specific use of Algaefix to treat spriogyra on this an every other forum that comes up on Google. However I have read conflicting info a couple of times. Everyone clearly states to follow the recommended dose and directions of 1ml per 10 gallons, but I have read that people are using it for 3 days... Although the bottle says to use every 3 days... Is it "use for 3 days consecutively" or "every 3days for three treatments"? With the suggested 50% WC before and after treatment, it would seem that what is being suggested is the 3 consecutive days and not the every 3 days per the label.

So if a participating member of this thread could confirm, I would be very appreciative.

And yes I know my cause, its fixed, never had spiro before and hope to never again.


----------



## plantbrain

Water change then Treatment.

Water changes after 3 days, 

Another treatment

Water change after 2-3 days

Done.


----------



## Cardinal's Keeper

Much appreciated


----------

