# Medicineman's 260 gal open top tank#2 journal (56k warning)



## medicineman

Hi fellas.

For this holiday I have myself a present... another 260 gal open top tank for me! Perhaps some people will call me a nut :icon_roll 
This one finally came out of the assembly, built everything from scratch. The tank measures at 197 cm x 70 cm x 76 cm, slightly differs from my old 260 gal (#1 tank). The glass is 12mm and polished all around the, including the rims as well. I'm placing this one on the 2nd storey of the house, which is at the balcony. The location is protected from rain and excess sunlight by a huge canopy at the 3rd storey. It is dreched by sunlight at an angle from 2-5pm, so I can save some lighting bills  
It is quite a pain to get the tank to 2nd level. It took 6 men to painstakingly lift it up the stairs (and it got my toe too... :icon_cry: )

Welcome new tank!



















The cabinet is teakwood with some ornamental traditional carvings done by handycraftsmen in central java.

As you see I ordered the cabinet to have many doors and those many grille to improve air circulation.










And another set of overflow system... the one that I love and trust. Overflow is 2" pipe and return line is 3/4" pipe. The height is set so I will have a nice level of water line at around 70-71 cm, leaving just a little space from the top.










This is the bottom "filter tank". Useful as always due to multi functional usage. (you cannot see the whole thing in the picture, but it continues to 60% the length of the main tank).










For the mean time, I'm filling it to test for leaks and to adjust the overflow/return height (just to minimize the splashes and outgassing)
Next will be lighting system, gravel, CO2 and another DIY chiller, not to forget all other stuff. This one is going to be another planted tank.


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## jimmydrsv

I can't wait to see what you do with this tank.


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## Loubard

Congrats on a very cool tank and I can't wait to see more of it!


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## Georgiadawgger

Good gosh...that's a monster! What are the plans? Equipment?


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## Lorenceo

Man thats a nice tank.
I love that stand, looks awesome.
Will be watching this thread.


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## medicineman

As some of you may have noticed, this tank #2 is an entirely different set from its sister tank www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23361 which is my 260 gal #1 downstairs

Due to availability and results, I decided I'm going to use some similar methods on the new tank.

Things to do :
1. Fine tweaking of the overflow filtration system
2. Soak the tank for 3 days then clean it thoroughly
3. Get some of "billboard" metal halides like the one on tank #1 (which is done and I did some homework moving all the ballast and heavy stuff to a remote place). Get some fluoroscent lighting for secondary "viewing" light. Perhaps another T12 or T8. Looks like this in the sister tank










4. Get the air con man to fix in one of those DIY "freezer" chiller like the one in my tank #1 www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23212
5. Get another CO2 tank and regulator set (which is done and working)
6. Get a good reactor (well this will do the job cheaply - I will need a powerhead for this)










7. Substrate (done). Volcanic gravel 2-3mm, graded and cleaned. 6 sacks of them.
8. Base fertilizer (done). 3 bags @11pounds of JBL aquabasis. Some plant tablets. Some coco peat. Some fern peat.
9. Custom lighting bracket (again I failed to hang them from the ceiling)
10. Several packets of filter floss and friends.
11. Plan for an air ventilation system
12. etc etc... that I will update and will consult with the forum if I'm lost or not sure.


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## Gmoney

Beautiful tank and stand. Can't wait to see it aquascaped. Keep the pictures coming.:thumbsup:


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## Urkevitz

Jawdropping :eek5: The teakwood stand is beautiful, and I love the glass bricks behind the tank!


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## Hop

Nice layout there. When do we get the full virtual home tour?


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## bigstick120

Very nice, looks like you have a nice home as well!


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## medicineman

> Jawdropping The teakwood stand is beautiful, and I love the glass bricks behind the tank!


I tried to look for a decent location to place the tank. It seems that this layout works well enough. The granite floor will also withstand all water and weathering. Kinda risky inside though with those sensitive marble one.
Kinda reminded me of amano's exibition house layout. Remember that? The one tank under stairs in front of glass bricks.



> Very nice, looks like you have a nice home as well!
> Nice layout there. When do we get the full virtual home tour?


Well.. I think home sweet home, though some people would over appreciate it. The house's no architec's masterpiece but merely a rough DIY design. Frankly it kinda stands out here but I'm not going to boast now.. there are so much more nicer home out there. It must have been the selection and materials that people will love. Thank you for the kind words and appreciation on the house. Well.. virtual home tour.. a little bit around the tank maybe.

Back to the tank...

And so today I hacked off a bit of the top of the return pipe, just to fine tweak it at a desireable level which is 2-3 cm under the water surface. This way I will get just nice agitation on the surface to make those nice water ripples. At the current level, the squirting of water is considerably controlled and I will not get any splash of water to the underside and on top of the rims as well as the sides.

However this proves a new problem as there is more water gushing back to the filter tank below when the pump is off. I'd better add a check valve soon inbetween the return line.

I check out the driftwood I bought several weeks earlier.They are sinking all right. Several weeks of a dip inside the koi pond does the job. Lets see how they look inside the tank later.










Some of the pond inhabitants. I have some shrimps and a shoal of breeding sumatra tiger barb in there as well. They seems to be happy when I add those woods inside.


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## medicineman

A bit "glass brick" tour...










The balcony features afternoon basking in the sun facility and a high flowing air circulation. There would be some surface water movement due to this air flow every now and then.
Might be too much sunlight from 2-4 but not to worry as it doesnt beam all day. If I'm getting much more than I need, a black sticker will do the job.


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## matthewburk

Awesome all around. Wish I could find some black pipe like that to use in my tank, what is that?


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## medicineman

matthewburk said:


> Awesome all around. Wish I could find some black pipe like that to use in my tank, what is that?


Whoops... those "black pipes" are just sillhuette ... tehehe  
You see that I took the pictures in the afternoon when the sun is shining from behind.

Seriously, those are just regular grey pipes "rucika" brand. If you desperately needs a black pipe, just make a joint connection and paint the pipe black (spray can will do). Just be sure to prep the pipe well. It should last a year or so until you have to undone the pipe, paint it and install it back. (It has been done in saltwater tank by my tank fabricator)


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## matthewburk

medicineman said:


> Whoops... those "black pipes" are just sillhuette ... tehehe
> You see that I took the pictures in the afternoon when the sun is shining from behind.
> 
> Seriously, those are just regular grey pipes "rucika" brand. If you desperately needs a black pipe, just make a joint connection and paint the pipe black (spray can will do). Just be sure to prep the pipe well. It should last a year or so until you have to undone the pipe, paint it and install it back. (It has been done in saltwater tank by my tank fabricator)


Just paint it :icon_eek: I think ill try that, any suggestions on what paint to use or not to use? How should I prep the pipe?


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## lumpyfunk

Stunning setup tank, stand room koi all of it! I cant wait to see it planted!


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## medicineman

A quick fill to the overflow filter. I use some leftovers filter floss from the pond last year. Another chamber is filled with coarser, uneven substrate that I graded last week (volcanic river gravel/sand).










I've had my lesson on ungraded gravel. The bigger pieces will surface over time leaving the finer ones at the bottom. So I removed the bigger ones this time.

Ready in sacks for use after washing. I hope real soon in a few days.










Tomorrow the custom made stand for new lighting will arrive (looks alike the one on my 260 gal #1). So I'm going to circuit the control system for the metal halides and make some planning on the wiring. I'm expecting the "freezer" man to come over to install plumbing and wiring with some leftover DIY chiller parts from the sister tank.


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## medicineman

This is how the substrate looks like when graded. I use only the smaller particels which are 1-3mm in diameter. This kind of substrate proved to work well in my other tanks. The longer it runs in a tank the better it is seasoned. It does not grow compact either. The colour contrast scape layout and forgives some amount of algae that might grow on it. The only downside perhaps is the texture and weight which are beaten by silica sand. However silica sand does not have any CEC quality and too light in colour.


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## jhoetzl

In a nutshell - wow! Both your house and tank(s)!

The size and capacity a lot of us dream for...

Best of luck with the new tank and can't wait to see some pics when you are done (and I enjoy the in progress pics as well!).


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## medicineman

.. and so the base fert goes in. The tank uses up 3 bags of @11lbs JBL aquabasis. On top of that a sparse spots of fern peat.










Next will be substrate and lighting... coming real soon.


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## medicineman

The substrate came in. I use almost all of the sacks and end up with an average of 5 inches in depth. A little bit of countouring and it's done. 










The metal halides philips control box all went remote in order to minimize the strain to the top of the tank. Like tank #1, the halides sits on a custom made aluminium bracket.










I did some wiring for the halides and lighting bracket and test the whole system. They work just fine  Again... twice it worked on tank #1 and tank #2.


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## medicineman

*planted at last!!!*

Ah... planted at last.

It's christmas and Santa Claus visited me this morning ....:biggrin: yaay.. yaaay... it's time for a christmas present. Suddenly my tank is already scaped.. 
(kidding.. it was just me and my brother doing the job). 

So we took a trip to the local fish and plants center where there are 60+ fish shops in a row. Like usually, I prefer to visit on saturdays and sundays when the selection and stock are at its max. We have a look and went home with a trunk full of plants (again I bought too many :icon_mad: ... what a waste)

Like the sister tank #1, the chore is a pain an a huge mess. It took a whole day to prepare for the scape. The driftwood from the pond were taken out for a cleaning and sticking some moss and pellia. Another wood goes with fern and several kinds of bolbitis. I had a bad luck since the main wood somehow floats so I tie it to a brick. 

Behold the scaped tank... still murky.




























Next is cooling or the tank and the CO2 system (waiting for installation)

Lets wait until the water gets clear and I'll show you around. I'm just too tired to finish the scape right now. Just let them be and wait for another free time for some adjustments.


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## ValorG

wow nice tank and house dude. i can see that ur living large and in charge down der. lol g/j!


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## sarahbobarah

I like the detailed walk-through of your setup. Thanks for sharing your process!


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## medicineman

*cleared up a bit*

Here's the tank after 18+ hours since scaped. The water has cleared up a bit, so I'm taking more pictures as I worked the tank.

I'm delighted to find that the tank stays at 28 C (which cools down over 1 C during the night).










The freezer man arrived to install DIY cooling system. I'm out of luck.. the condenser was leaking. So the guy ran to the nearest store to get a replacement. I took in some in process work while he was away :biggrin: 

The half way installed hardwares










look at his stuff..










after he was back, another mishaps happened. He ran out of O2 for welding :icon_roll :icon_roll ... my oh my... Then it was the time for filling the refrigerant after vacumming the compressor stuff when his refrigerant bottle got clogged! oh boy..... :icon_eek: 
Ok..ok... he fixed it and the system finally ran smoothly that afternoon


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## medicineman

back to the tank and some details. Clear enough yesterday morning for some picture taking.

The center part










The right part. The driftwood is covered by pellia and moss, personally attached by myself (painstakingly while doing the whole tank). The shops ran out of moss so I tried out pellia. 










The left part. 










Notice the ferns on the drifwood. I love the look how the driftwood seems to be a tree growing under water, with the ferns as the leaves.










Things get clearer today and the system is running better each day. Temp gets lower and the whole tank looks less messy. Still a long way to go attending the tank, not to mention the scape.


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## medicineman

The O2 regulator on an adapter. The tank went in the cabinet right now.










For now as an emergency, I use this flower shaped glass diffuser. It is a charm and a real cheapo deal at around $4


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## unirdna

<subscribed>

Fantastic! I really enjoy "look through" aqaria. And nothing beats halides beaming through ripples roud:. That's a heck of a plant package you've started with. Looks like 40+ plants.

Any plans for fish?


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## medicineman

> Looks like 40+ plants


started counting... (even though I dont know the names)

2 Anubias nana
3 pots H difformis
4 pots H Poliserma sunset
6 bunch java fern
1 giant fern
1 tray of moss
1 tray of pellia
2 bunch baby tears
8 pots vallisneria
10 pots amazon
2 giant bolbitis fern
12 pots mini fern
25+ pots cryptocorine
4 pots tiger lotus
10 pots of grass-like plant
30++ pots of other plants that I do not now exactly the names (but they are regular tank plants and you probably know each one of them)

I think there are more than 100 in the tank :icon_roll 


> Any plans for fish?












definately will add in. for now there are these 2 shrimps I took from the koi pond and I'm still waiting for people's responds towards the creature. slowly but sure I'm cycling the tank. There are some fish I already have at bay and waiting for the right time to put in. There are SAEs and Hengeli rasboras.

The CO2 tank goes inside (and I have to drill the bottom of the cabinet to do this... all for the sake of tidyness.










The DIY chiller is running great. I got 25,5 C reading within less than 10 hours.


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## TheOtherGeoff

absolutly incredible!! you have 2 VERY awesome tanks.


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## medicineman

TheOtherGeoff said:


> absolutly incredible!! you have 2 VERY awesome tanks.


Thanks. I will have to try to cope with three tanks now. Hopefully each tank will get enough attention.

Quick update :

More wire routing stuff. Installed the reactor in the tank and match it with a powerhead from the storeroom (an old freebie), plug it to the CO2 tubing and it works like a charm. I'm cycling the tank in steps. There are 5 ghost shrimps, 4 SAEs and 5 hengel rasboras in the tank right now. I hope they all will make it through the week.


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## A Hill

LIKE WOOOOOW!:eek5: :eek5: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: 

LIKE ITS AWSOME!!!

its really nice and i thought i had good plant selection near me.... well ill have to rethink that... like unbelievable tank

nice shrimp too is that by chance a vampire shrimp kinda looks like it... 
ur pond sound and looks amazing more pics? *drools....*

great tanks 

FISH NEWB
/subscribes


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## logan

*dude*

more pictures, come on! let's see those sae's in there or something...


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## medicineman

logan said:


> more pictures, come on! let's see those sae's in there or something...


I have taken some more pictures to update. Real nice and some details  

Foks just have to be patient. The internet connections here are totally crap. Local connection is OK, but uploading files is a PITA. I will have to wait for a time when the international for uploading is back on the line. 

It is a promise for sure!


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## medicineman

*more pics on inhabitants*

Ok ok... the connection is all on again. Now I will show some inhabitants in cycling process.

The SAE is always a reliable fish for me in all my tanks. It is difficult to find otos down here(and they are so sensitive not to mention cost 3-4x SAE). I'm glad they seems to be doing well. The batch inside the tank is already tamed for months and likely to be accliminated to the house's water. See how they do the job well  










And here is a pack or wild caught hengeli rasbora. I added another 5 from my small tank (and there are another 40+ to go) and soon all 10 of them school. They are smart enough to know feeding time..  










Another picture of one of the shrimps.


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## medicineman

This is the cheapo reactor I was talking about (refers to the equipment section). Now it is installed and running on a powerhead. I remove the glass difusser right now (you know very well those diffusers are more suitable for small tanks).










And the retainer for the bulkhead overflow is done. It is made out of aluminium mesh, cut and rolled to match the diameter of the bulkhead. Simple and effective. Just pull it out for cleaning and put back in. No more worry that the little guys will get sucked into the filter.


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## medicineman

Night shots of the tank. I thought of taking in distance since the water is getting clearer.

left part










right part










I love the contrast between the green and red variety. I'm so lucky to pick both plants as they turn out to work well on each other


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## A Hill

nice new pics you gotta love the contrast of the albino cories and the black substraight lol... nice fish u got there =D

Fish newb


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## ShortFin

Awesome tank! Wouldn't the aluminium mesh rust inside the tank?


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## medicineman

> Awesome tank! Wouldn't the aluminium mesh rust inside the tank?


Aluminium can last for a long time in freshwater (unlike in saltwater). The swimming pool broom stick, etc are made of aluminium and they last years before getting oxidized.



> gotta love the contrast of the albino cories and the black substraight


If you like it, here's another shot of the cory (the cory was taken from my other tank).


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## medicineman

Here's another shrimp. She's pregnant with tiny green eggs. I wonder if the little shrimps once hached will ever survive to adulthood.










The "tree" of fern. I hope these ferns are really aquatic... I have never seen them before. It seems that they can grow under water because they are not rotting yet..


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## TheOtherGeoff

medicineman said:


> Ok ok... the connection is all on again. Now I will show some inhabitants in cycling process.
> 
> The SAE is always a reliable fish for me in all my tanks. It is difficult to find otos down here(and they are so sensitive not to mention cost 3-4x SAE).


wow that is crazy!! Atleast where i live, true SAE are very hard to find and they usually are 5 to 6 times more then ottos! i can get ottos for ~.99 give or take a few pennies but every SAE i have seen is atleast5 bucks or more. the one place that always carries them sells them for 7 dollars i think. its nuts!!

But the tank looks wonderful and i enjoy that red/green contrast alot too. looks very nice


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## medicineman

TheOtherGeoff said:


> wow that is crazy!! Atleast where i live, true SAE are very hard to find and they usually are 5 to 6 times more then ottos! i can get ottos for ~.99 give or take a few pennies but every SAE i have seen is atleast5 bucks or more. the one place that always carries them sells them for 7 dollars i think. its nuts!!
> 
> But the tank looks wonderful and i enjoy that red/green contrast alot too. looks very nice


well.. look again right here. These are real SAEs and they work like one, in each every one of my tank. SAE happens to be a local fish that can be found in sumatra, malaya and thailand. Sometimes it is extremely difficult to get one because mostly are wild caught and they are available in season. When there are stock they are sold at around $ .60 each. Ottos are still mostly imported and even harder to get. I'll be lucky enough to get my hands on one, which is sold at around $ 1.75-2.00.


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## A Hill

really nice pics i decided i have to find out what that shrimp is so im gonna go find out now lol it REALLY looks formiliar. well ill have your answer soon "hopefully":icon_roll 

Fish Newb

im also not a big fan of albino cories but i like the contrast youve got goin there i like panda and such... albino is a little far for me X0


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## A Hill

well from lookin around quick it ISNT a vampire shrimp... those are big black/gray filter feeders but i know ive seen urs befor ill have to look around more..


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## medicineman

Another fish taken out from the other tank. This is a bicolor labeo shark I guess. I know they might be territorial, harras the SAE, grow to be 4inch+ and such. There are only a pair and I'm sure there are too much space to claim for themselves


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## bigstick120

medicineman said:


> I love the contrast between the green and red variety. I'm so lucky to pick both plants as they turn out to work well on each other



Your tank is comming along very nicely. What is the name of these red and green plants. I dont think I have even seen them before.


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## magicmagni

Medicine Man:

Great job on the journal. I don't think you've skipped a single detail! I really admire the work you've done on the hardware side of things. Very neat install overall. The only thing that surprises me is that you're running the Co2 reactor in the main tank. Why not run it in the sump and get it out of sight?


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## medicineman

magicmagni said:


> Medicine Man:
> 
> Great job on the journal. I don't think you've skipped a single detail! I really admire the work you've done on the hardware side of things. Very neat install overall. The only thing that surprises me is that you're running the Co2 reactor in the main tank. Why not run it in the sump and get it out of sight?


Very funny when you see that everything seems to be looking clean and there is this big long reactor in the tank. I'm agree with that, even though where I put it doesnt seems to clearly messing the view.

I'm actually planning on how I can plug the big output of the pump down in the overflow filter to the small diameter reactor input, then back to the big return line. That way I will have a cleaner look in the main tank while running one pump less. I just have to figure it out and pay a visit to the local plumbing store and try it out. My worry is that the main pump will not be strong enough to push the water out the top because the reactor is on the way, but I think that will prove ok. That will be one of the things to do, along with a check valve in the return line to avoid any backflow.

For now, I'm going to let it work as is for the plant's goodness. Time for another research.


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## medicineman

More plant close up pics

This one looks neat, so I took them from the store. I have no idea what they are










Tiger Lotus. You know it, you love it. I hope to keep this one in current condition. Broad short leaves.










Anubias nana. Flowering as a great bonus.










update on fish:
I observe the bicolor labeo shark to resemble a SAE. You can see they share many features, that is including the appetite for algae. The shape of the body, the burbels on the mouth, the fins. They graze for algae at 1/4 the job of SAE. Not a bad fish after all.


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## medicineman

Another one of the red plants. A different species from the red-green combo above. Havent look for the name yet, and here they just called it "cemara merah" which means "red pine"










update on fish :
added 5 more hengeli rasbora from my other tank. I'll be adding slowly day by day until it reaches 40+.


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## A Hill

lookin good... i wish i had a plant selection like you have! thats incredible! and i thought i was luckey,,,,:eek5: :eek5: :eek5: 

if im ever looking to take a trip to get fish stuff i know where im goin :icon_eek: 

Fish newb


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## Goldfishcrazy11

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/4571/labeo8fe.jpg

That's a redtail black shark.


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## Buck

Holy smokes ! :icon_eek: 
What a beautiful setup. I dont know what I am more impressed with ...the equiptment used, the aquascape , the plant selection available to you locally , the growth you have achieved , your photography skills or your home ! 

Great thread , I enjoyed reading it thorougly and the photos are beautiful. I dont know how I have have missed this thread until now but I am sure going to return ! roud:


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## magicmagni

Buck said:


> Holy smokes ! :icon_eek:
> What a beautiful setup. I dont know what I am more impressed with ...the equiptment used, the aquascape , the plant selection available to you locally , the growth you have achieved , your photography skills or your home !


No kidding huh?

Medincineman: well I've never had the pleasure of working with a sump, but what some folks do with sumps around here is just put the whole pump/ reactor assembly in the sump. Will that fit in the sump next to the pump on the left side? You would still be using two pumps, but it does get equipment out of the tank, which is always a good thing. Another thing you want is a tight seal on the sump (although somthing as simple as styrofoam over the top works) so that Co2 does not escape, this is beneficial no matter where the reactor is.


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## medicineman

> That's a redtail black shark


. 
I'm also still quite confused. A redtail black shark (_Labeo bicolor_) is quite jet black with red tail fin. The dorsal, pectoral, etc are black. Perhaps this is a breed variety.



> Holy smokes !
> What a beautiful setup. I dont know what I am more impressed with ...the equiptment used, the aquascape , the plant selection available to you locally , the growth you have achieved , your photography skills or your home !
> 
> Great thread , I enjoyed reading it thorougly and the photos are beautiful. I dont know how I have have missed this thread until now but I am sure going to return !


Glad you have found the thread and I'm happy that people can share the joy of my new tank (hopefully to share the problems as well).



> Medincineman: well I've never had the pleasure of working with a sump, but what some folks do with sumps around here is just put the whole pump/ reactor assembly in the sump. Will that fit in the sump next to the pump on the left side? You would still be using two pumps, but it does get equipment out of the tank, which is always a good thing. Another thing you want is a tight seal on the sump (although somthing as simple as styrofoam over the top works) so that Co2 does not escape, this is beneficial no matter where the reactor is.


Thanks.
Will consider into that (which is easy to do with two pumps if I still have ample space left)


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## medicineman

*flower flower flower*

Pics a bit fuzzy.. lighting is out already (on timer).

I didnt notice it until its flowering. I wonder how the flower stem of this vallisneria grows so fast in a night??  



















And this Cabomba finally opens up.










I sure miss the view of a tank full of flowers, like the one occasion below in my 260 gal tank #1. Hey.. sometimes I'd do that again for fun!



















And that red fin shark.. it is grazing like SAE. How useful


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## unirdna

medicineman said:


> This is a bicolor labeo shark I guess. I know they might be territorial, harras the SAE, grow to be 4inch+ and such. There are only a pair and I'm sure there are too much space to claim for themselves


Got yourself a rainbow (red-finned) shark there, Medicinman. Possibly a local fish for you . So many pretty (and some huuuuge) minnows in your neck of the woods.

http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_frenatus.php

edit: _Ninja_


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## medicineman

Ok ok.. now I have moved the reactor downstairs to the overflow filter.










No more stuff inside the tank. No reactor, no difusser, no tubing, no wiring. Just the tank, a tiny termometer and the 2inch+ mega overflow pipe. I think this is as clean as the tank can be (havent figure any other method to shave it down further).










I hope the CO2 would not get gassed out while pumped up into the tank. I'm still wondering if I get enough CO2 in the tank. The powerhead turning the reactor is too slow I think. Maybe I'll get myself a pH meter this weekend and then I'll get a stronger pump if needed.


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## medicineman

More plants details

The undergrowth

Cyrptocorine Balansae










another Cyptocoryne










I just love cryptocoryne. They grow strong and steady when accliminated to the tank. Maintenance less too.


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## medicineman

The fine, small leaved plant

Is this happens to be called baby tears? I think I can grow this one as a low foreground plant. It can even grow on the driftwood, feeding only from the water collumn.


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## Goldfishcrazy11

Yes, I think that's baby tears.


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## spinjector

medicineman said:


> I didnt notice it until its flowering. I wonder how the flower stem of this vallisneria grows so fast in a night??


Isn't that a flower stem of an aponogeton? Mine go up very fast also. Depending on species, ferts, and light, they grow anywhere from four to eight inches per day - thus putting them at the water surface and blooming in three days or less. I started cross-polinating them with a cottton swab, and two or three made it to maturity, and budded off and started to grow new little aponogeton plantlets.


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## medicineman

> Isn't that a flower stem of an aponogeton? Mine go up very fast also. Depending on species, ferts, and light, they grow anywhere from four to eight inches per day - thus putting them at the water surface and blooming in three days or less. I started cross-polinating them with a cottton swab, and two or three made it to maturity, and budded off and started to grow new little aponogeton plantlets.


Hey there are more coming up to the surface. I'll pollinate them and see what will happen  

Boy how fast the plants in the tank are feeling at home. In another week I think they will need some heavy pruning.

Another plant from the tank (taken several days ago)


----------



## medicineman

Last picture for this year.

The red stuff.










Happy new year folks!

It has been a great first year for me of knowing the world of planted tank.


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## A Hill

beautiful pics as always! is that cabomba flowering? ive never seeen it flower before thats awosome!:eek5: 

fish newb


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## medicineman

Fish Newb said:


> is that cabomba flowering? ive never seeen it flower before thats awosome!


Yes those are the types of cabomba blooming, all over the tank. It happens some time ago in my old 260 tank #1. Kinda miss that week... a special time when all blooms. Reminds me of those giant lotus. Hey #2 tank is outside. Perhaps lotus will survive in it. But one the second thought the huge thing will outshade everything. If you love that camomba flower so much, pay a visit to my tank #1 at http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23361


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## medicineman

New year with new spirit. After the night before getting into old and new celebration with all bbq and paper trumpet frenzy, I headed to the local fish center again. For those of you staying or visiting jakarta, you can ask taxi to take you to Jalan Sumenep and you'll not be dissapointed!  

Ok... so after a week of unexpectedly quick growth, I bought some plants and re-locate those plants that are growing too fast and too big to be placed at the foreground.

Those red-green plant goes to the back, as I figure that they are the same as the huge version I had before. In their place I plant this one. I had some of the green ones in my other tank, and they grow small size forever.










The visit was quite a good one as I've managed to spot several fish that I love. What are the fish is next...


----------



## medicineman

OK now to the fish.

I like corys. Small cute corys. Always active and moves silly. So I'm getting some more.

Trio panda cory










Still shy (wonder if they are naturally shy, unlike the outgoing albino ones). They are still in a pack since they are young - and cute for sure.

why's with all the tiny fish in such big tank? Ok ok I got the point. So here is a bigger fellow. It is not so easy to find a suitable bigger mate, not to mention I would want a good speciment.

A lone male pearl gouramy, full size (3 inch+)










I was going to get the female as well, but then it was not attractive at all. So poor lonely fellow.


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## A Hill

nice cories and plants! i would grab the other one just to keep it company... there will be pleanty of fish in your tank so if one isnt the best looking and keeps another fish happy why not get it  


cories have to be my favorite fish.. ive bought 2 twice the first two i bought one died right away after a few days and then the other one was always shy. now i just bought two more larger possibly full grown cories and they are extremely energetic and always nosing around the plants looking for food i really love their barbles hanging down from their mouth reminds me of a beard on an old wise man that is like from se aisa china or japan... like you see in cartoons or something/:icon_roll 

fish are like humans they all have diffrent personalities your corries will most likely stay in a loose group because they are very social fish

fish newb

ps i have seen your other tank looks awsome idk if i posted there:redface:


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## medicineman

I'm having the idea that keeping some bigger fish with the smaller shoals will tighten the pack (just like what happens in the wild). So I'm getting something that loves to swim around, does not harras or eat other fish and looks good too. Not only that, the great bonus is that they are schooling fish as well. 

So here they are... a pack of 8 Congo Tetra the size of 3 in+.










Cant differentiate yet between males and females


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## magicmagni

ooooh congo tetras. Nice looking fish. Used to have in my tank until they started eating anubia leaves. Apparently not all are "salid shooters" though, but just something to watch out for.


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## mrbelvedere

I have to say I'm jealous. I really like the fine leaved red stem plant. Is planted aquaria a big deal in Indonesia as it is in Singapore, Japan, and Taiwan?


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## medicineman

> Used to have in my tank until they started eating anubia leaves


Gack.. no warning about that earlier. I hope I'll be able to keep up with regular feeding routine so that they will not look for alternative salad meals.



> Is planted aquaria a big deal in Indonesia as it is in Singapore, Japan, and Taiwan?


Not as big. Considering 200 million+ population, only some are fortunate enough to own a tank, not to mention going for a planted tank that needs special knowledge and additional equipments. 

It is just because I'm lucky enough to stay in a desireable proximity of Jakarta, as the center of the republic that's why I have a certain better access to a wider selection of plants. 

When it comes to equipment, you cannot rely fully. Especially when you have a bigger tank. All that are available are those affordable eastern brands with a very limited western/japan stuff. To get the maximum out of those, you have to custom build and do some DIY.

Overall if you ask aquarium business is around jakarta... I can say yes. In this city alone, there are at least 4 fish store center with 60+ shops each, not to mention the other several more fish center with 30+ shops. Then those farms that exclusively export millions of fish overseas.


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## Adrian

Fantastic photography! You are doing evryone at the forum a great service by sharing and documenting your tank-building experience.:thumbsup: 

btw, what is your fert regime like?

cheers


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## medicineman

Eum... err yeah dosing regime...

Not a thing I'm strong in. Seriously not a thing to copy at. I use IE or may say PMDD fertilization. MgSO4, KNO3, liquified K, trace element and chelated iron. P goes in rarely as I'm afraid of algae bloom. The dosing is alternated between macro and micro three times a week. The amount is based on ppm count from molecular weight and tank volume. I have no idea if I'm a bit overdosing or underdosing (which is likely due to the unbelieveable growth rate so far). But not to worry should I'm late at dosing ferts because this tank has a JBL base fertilizer under the substrate.

Frankly, perhaps I'm the only one here with a big tank and no test kit (which is a shame). I think I have to try harder in looking for a correct kit.

I installed this one way check valve today. No more back flow to the overflow tank on maintenance and power failure. I highly recommend this one along with a ball valve for those of you over flow-ers and cannister-ers.


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## Ðank

Really great work here *MM*. Love this thread, can't wait for more!


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## medicineman

Well those great work wont happen without those sunlight and metal halides. I never expected some of the plants to take over the tank at such a quick rate. Given another week or two I think I'll be trimming loads of them.

To illustrate the wonders of sunlight when the day is clear (after mid day)










Yes those big pearling on this riccia happens without the halides. Just plain ol sunlight. The evening time though, halides will take over for a short 3 hours.


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## azn_fishy55

gosh your tanks look soo good.I wonder if I can't have tanks like yours in the Philippines if I live there when I grow older.I am so jealous of your tanks XP


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## medicineman

Well if you ever reach and stay in the Philipines, I'm pretty sure you can copy exactly the way I work the tank; those lighting and chiller stuff. 

For now back to the congo tetra. These fish are still shy, but they stay as a close, tight group. Here is the pic with all the 8 of them. I wonder when will they come out and school around the tank. They are even still shy enough to eat the food I gave. They are barely eating. However they are looking good, so I figure out must be a bit stressed or shy.


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## Hop

medicineman,

I'm entertaining the idea of turning my 370 gallon reef tank into my planted tank, and my 125 into my reef... Just due to operating costs... Electric bill on my reef in about $200 a month. Not a big deal, but it's a car payment I may need to free up

At anyrate, how much flow are you pushing through this thing? I'm going to retire the sump, and just run the tank normal, but I'm trying to plan filtration etc...


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## medicineman

Hi. 

Ok planning to switch the tanks. It would be a wise decision when you need to free up a car quick. Lesser power is needed. Lesser maintenance cost also. Wise for not losing either one.

I'm running the tank on a megaflow bulkhead sump as you already see. There are two pipes in the tank, drilled through the bottom and there is another small tank in the cabinet bottom (the rest you know very well). I've lost the container box of the pumps for any GPH, but for an illustration those 20W eheim pump in my other 260 gal do the job just fine. You will still get the ripples out of the metal halides on those pumps provided that you place the return line submerged near the surface (not above surface). 

370 gal? Lets see... that monster will need 1.5 times the pump I had. You can retire the top powerhead(s) inside the main tank (saltwater setup needs strooong current) or use only the smallest and only one by the area where the current is slowest. No need to worry as long as the water is not stagnant.
Planted tank only needs slow moving current to survive.

You can use the old filtration system you already had, but make sure to modify should it is wet n dry. And the lighting will go just nice if you take out those artinics. I'm sure the remaining will still can considered very high light.


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## cozmo

beautiful tank medicineman :thumbsup:


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## zephyr

medicineman said:


> I'm having the idea that keeping some bigger fish with the smaller shoals will tighten the pack (just like what happens in the wild). So I'm getting something that loves to swim around, does not harras or eat other fish and looks good too. Not only that, the great bonus is that they are schooling fish as well.
> 
> So here they are... a pack of 8 Congo Tetra the size of 3 in+.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cant differentiate yet between males and females


hey just from my congo tetra knowledge(as a big congo tetra fan), those 8 u have are all males. Males are much more colorful, longer finned, and have the distinct orange stripe. On the otherhand, females are a duller, light gold color 

nice tank btw, keep it goin !


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## GreenerSideofLIfe

How about a current photo of your whole tank? A wide view  I'm anxious to see it again!


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## eusair

this must be some kind of record for setting up a tank. unbelievable! not even 2 weeks. i can't imagine what it is like to have so many resources so close to home. i have absolutely nothing in my area to make this hobby any easier. i need to move.


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## medicineman

> How about a current photo of your whole tank? A wide view I'm anxious to see it again!


There are some remarkable growth considering one week worth of growing not to mention the cycling that is just started. Ok.. the full shot will come again tonight.



> this must be some kind of record for setting up a tank. unbelievable! not even 2 weeks. i can't imagine what it is like to have so many resources so close to home


I would like to share some secret on the tank. 

I have not let the forum know that I'm using 2 packets of a product called "Bio-lite". It is a local korean licensed product that goes for a low $ .60 each. A packet will treats around 75 gallons worth of tank/pond. It contains several kinds of bacteria spores that will reanimate once wet and in the correct condition. This is just like seeding heavily your tank with cycled stuff. Another thing is I use a portion of the filter chamber with stuff I took out of my pond. 

Another different thing is that the tank is heavily planted since day 1. I think this will quicken up the cycle while eliminating ammonia spikes as well as introducing micro organism. I purposely rinse them, no bleach and no serious washing. 

Lastly is the blessing and the curse of sunlight. I'm sure you would have noticed if you have read from the beginning that my tank is positioned at the balcony, basking in direct sunlight for 2-3 hours a day. This sunlight combined with halide lighting and nutrition makes a great combo. A warning though I'm sure this can go wrong quickly esp algae should I screw up. In the long run the tank may become a maintenance tank and I should be choosing wisely in the future for easy to trim plants.


----------



## Ðank

medicineman said:


> **I have not let the forum know that I'm using 2 packets of a product called "Bio-lite". It is a local korean licensed product.....contains several kinds of bacteria spores that will reanimate once wet**


Maybe you could tell us more about this product? When I googled it all I found(quickly) was weight-loss pills and a product that _kills_ the bacteria in your drinking water. Hopefully there is an ingredients/mixture label on the package.

I can't wait for the wide shot and a (wow! already!) before and after shot.


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## medicineman

> Maybe you could tell us more about this product?


Like I have said, this product is limited to local market only, and can be found at koi sellers, not aquarium store. They would not say the kind of bacteria used on the package, only mentioned that it contained several kinds of benficial bacteria. The product is commonly used for new setups ponds and aquariums and to treat stress due to bioload spike.



> I can't wait for the wide shot and a (wow! already!) before and after shot





> How about a current photo of your whole tank? A wide view I'm anxious to see it again!


Well the wait will be over soon  
It just a matter of time before the connection goes up and imageshack running again. I'll present it as a before and after format.


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## medicineman

Sorry about the update. It seems that I cannot upload things well enough. I've tried imageshack, picbucket, zorpia, free image hosting and all failed. I must sue my ISP for performing so poor  

Ok despite all the giant growth and all the tiny plantlets growing here and there, like always in every tank, I'm battling algae problem. Diatom algae for specific. Those dust-like algae that grows on your tank walls and plants. I will do a more frequent WC and see if ammonia is the cause. Should I fail, I will look for a bigger powerhead and the CO2 reactor will be back at the top, pumping more CO2 into the tank. The last resort would of course would be the chemical algae fix thingy. But not to worry to much, the one I fear the most is beard algae.

Now when will the connection will be up again. Darn ISP...


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## medicineman

Sneak peek at 8 days old (3 january 2005)










more to come...


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## unirdna

There is a LOT of dimension to that tank for having just been planted. I'm particularly fond of that "tower" on the right side. Unique.


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## medicineman

photobucket is the only one running for now. I'm still waiting imageshack to run again. Until then, small pictures and no more wide view.

I returned the pearl gouramy and change for 2 red rainbows. I'm quite in luck that the LFS carry a nice specimen. Nice red colouration up to the tip of the fins










The floating plant. It grows so fast that it developed 5 additional plantlets and increase some 3-4 times in size. Unbelieveable.










another sneak peek at 8 days old










Next is before and after presentation ... coming soon


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## g8wayg8r

Beautiful. The selection for contrast in form and color is easy on the eyes.

I don't know what I would do with a tank big enough to grow plants more than a week without getting out the hedgehog. Plus, I love the fact you can go to the "store" and get a wide variety of really nice looking plants. 

One day I'm going to replace most of my dining room furnature......one day.


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## mrbelvedere

I think it's fantastic. One of the best hobbyist's tanks I've seen. Right up there with Rain's. Anyone seen that? Damn! If I may offer one piece of constructive criticism, however. After looking at it for a good 3 minutes, I finally decided that I thought it had too many red plants in it. Hey, I'm only 16 and I've only been in the hobby for a year, so if my opinion is wrong, nevermind. Just throwing it out there.


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## TheOtherGeoff

Stunning. absolutly stunning. you are the man


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## medicineman

Thank you for the kind words.



> I'm particularly fond of that "tower" on the right side. Unique.


The "tower" of overflow bulkhead. From this two pipes










and later camuflaged into this










now lets take a look at the bottom parts

left










center










The baby tears is growing well and developed long rooting system, which is a good sign. Those moss are taking their place and I hope to see them grow long.

and right










The tiger lotus is growing nice. I'm glad I have had the experience with these plants before. I have seen cloudy days growing it.

That awesome looking red and green plants turned out to be the same as the big one on the left. They grow so fast and no longer suitable as foreground. In their former place the tiny bushy plants.

So they are moved to the back. Just look how huge they have grown. Not seen yet from the front but I'm sure they will in a week or so.


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## Lorenceo

Looks great man. roud:
Just goes to show - you can have a great looking planted tank with lots of different species.
Also shows you can do this in a large tank without problems (yay!)
I think you need more fish. A big school of cardinals would look awesome in there.


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## killerbee

Absolutely Stunning. Beautiful, keep up the great work


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## medicineman

Lorenceo said:


> Looks great man. roud:
> I think you need more fish. A big school of cardinals would look awesome in there.


Bio load quick count :

30 or so Hengel rasbora
8 congo tetra
2 red rainbow fish
2 red fin shark
8 or so ghost shrimp 
7 SAE
2 panda cory
3 albino cory
another 20 or so rasbora waiting at the other tank.

I would like to have cardinals. But at around $ 1 each they will prove a challange to get, esp I have not tried out how well can they cope with my water. That sounds like a $50 budget, but I'm willing to try out in the future (get some first as experiment). Neon is another story though, yes they are less colourfull but I already had big sucess keeping them for months. And at $ 0.10 each, I would have no trouble at all getting one hundread of em.


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## anchor10

Medicineman, Thanks for sending me to this thread. You gave me some good advice on the lighting -- now I have to see If I can find the DIY Halides in Virginia. this is truly an impressive undertaking. Us newbies have so much to learn!


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## medicineman

> Medicineman, Thanks for sending me to this thread. You gave me some good advice on the lighting -- now I have to see If I can find the DIY Halides in Virginia


Youre welcome. I'm just trying to share the experience with fellow hobbyist who are limited on fund or availability.



> Just goes to show - you can have a great looking planted tank with lots of different species


Thanks to the LFS center. I mean it when I said to the forum some time ago that Indonesia is a plant paradise. Those selection I brought home in all three (four) of my tanks does not reach 1/3 of total availability. There are still much more species to pick, especially if I pay a weekly visit for several months. New stock arrives from two to three times a week with the greatest on saturdays and sundays (by then I wil try to be there).

I just picked em up at the stores relying on experience (you see, I havent tell you yet that I have scaped the other 260 gal three times and the 25 gal two times), taking into account the quantity and size. After sorting and cleaning, then I started to group plants into their size, texture, colour. Then I plant them wherever I like. No rule. No previous careful planning. It goes instantly as the plants goes in the tank. 

update : the red rainbow I put in proved to be useful. It provoked the shy congo tetra into eating well, although they are still avoiding people and excessive light. These rainbows sure are not affraid of people and they have some reaction at feeding time.

As I fear earlier, the algae takes it tolls. Tomorow I'm going to bleach the anubias. It just my fault putting slow growers right at the blast of the light, not to mention into an unestablished tank. These anubias are hard to get here and they cost a lot more than other plants.


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## medicineman

*before and after*

Before and after

in order : Back then before christmas 2005, at christmas day... planted at last, and 8 days after setup.




























The left side




























The right side


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## medicineman

Throwing in the wide view version of the tank










Now is the time for me to go get some bleach and visit the LFS center for any algae fix and new stuff.


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## Kyle

Totally awesome tank! I'm so jealous, and your home looks as beautiful as my good friends in Jakarta. Someday I hope to come visit, once things settle down a bit


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## dan888

Amazing tank with great effort.


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## medicineman

I added more bioload.

30 rummy nose (none died so far...yay!)
15 guppy (males only, so no babies!)
5 tiny clown loach (why with so many cons? they behave ... so far)
2 Long finned angelfish 

Not much addition into a big tank, but somehow I find the total scene to be too.... chaotic  
The guppy appears to be all over, not to mention those rummy nose school over and over non stop to and from left front and right front. My theory about schooling fish and bigger species works too well. Those rainbows and congo tetras are like sheperd dogs that keeps the small fish pack tight.
Perhaps I'm adding too many number of species in the tank :icon_roll . Looks too much for me, but I dont know what people will say. Perhaps a part trade in for a change of some cardinals will do? Those cardinals does not school tight and they seems to be all over inbetween those plants.

Plants :
swap the mondo grass and some of the soft leaved plants that are too ravaged by dust algae (yikes... algae!). Will update the looks later... after they settle in better and water clears up. I tore apart half those floating plants because they just growing out of control. To the koi pond they go and who knows if my koi are fond of it.


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## medicineman

Here are the long-finned angels. No altums for me to buy right here. They are quite passive fish. These two glide slowly in the tank (perhaps the long fins gets in the way) and approach slowly at feeding time.










One of the guppies. I see that nowadays they are able to create some funky coloured ones. I've seen colours ranging from albino, fluoroscent, red, blue, markings, etc.










The pack of rummy nose tetra. They survived after several days with 0% mortality rate. Quite an accomplishment thanks to the forum suggestion. I asked for a bigger plastic bag and another 2-3 gallon of additional water from the shop's tank. I do a slow drip method for a whole day and it worked well. Always forms a tight pack at all time.










With this much fish I got a feeding frenzy. Perhaps too much for me and the tank. Not to worry, there are many more space in the other tanks.


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## medicineman

*mondo grass out*

The mondo grass were swapped. I was going to bleach and replant them (because of thin dust algae layer) when I found the roots are not growing and they are not white in colour. Some thin leaved stem plants that are too ravaged by algae are also changed (bleach and peroxide are out of question for them - they will certainly melt).










I replaced the bolbitis ferns that are not thrifing (perhaps they are not suited under water or need very strong current to live. I suspect they are taken from natural cliffs where water gushed down the walls). 

I love the contrast alhough some people will find it too red and prefers more green.










No full shots for now. The right most MH light is out again... and I was zapped.. again. I must do something drastic about that. A whole new wiring and a electrician are a must.


----------



## Buck

I still cannot believe the quality of the fish and plants you have available to you, beautiful stuff man !  My wife would have me in divorce court or buried by now if I lived where you live and could buy whats available to you...LMAO !

The only fish choice I didnt care for was the guppys , they are a beautiful fish but just dont seem to fit the setup...

Definately a beautiful tank, Im usually not one for all the dutch style plant coloring in a tank but you are making it work nicely.


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## medicineman

*leaving the tanks*

I have to leave all my tanks for a week trip out of town..... quite hard to do that with all the plants and tank inhabitants. I have someone to daily feed and fertilize twice when I'm away, so not to worry to much. I'm just concerned about how algae will do in a week, especially in this newer tank.

Moreover I have not yet finished repairing the rightmost halide... I pray that sunlight will do its magic so the right area will not get much screwed within a week.

At times like this I can feel the advantage of low tech sun-lit tank like my 15 gal quarantine. I almost never touch it for a month except feeding and change 20% of the water every two weeks.

Sunlight to this setup works like magic (and curse). My swords are growing well there are seedlings prouting everywhere on each bunch. I cant believe it. The vals are settling in, sending lots of runners and grow taller than my tank. (the curse is as you guessed.... algae. Dust algae, spot algae and some green thread algae) 

Buck: I'm quite agree with you. The guppies seems to be out of place, especially at such number. I mean there are just too many guppies loitering around, making the scenery too chaotic. I should move them later into another tank and leave several inside.

For now... goodbye tank. See you from this closed doors. I hope it will stay well until I'm back (at least I still have people to look after it... not as bad, eh?)


----------



## Raul-7

Wow! What an impressive setup, I especially like your plant selection. The red frilly plant (Myriophyllum tuberculatum) makes a great contrast with the frilly green plant (Myriophyllum pinnatum); and you a really nice contrast of red and green plants. Are you going to add more Rainbows?


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## medicineman

The last pic from left to right consist of several plants: cabomba (caroliana?), cabomba (furcata?), M tuberculatum, M pinatum. Behind and next are different plants and I did not remember the name. There are so many selection of the cabomba family alone right here. You got the light green, reddish top, purplish top, whitish top, yellowish, dark green and all can be indentified from the flower. They flower different colour from each other. So there are red, green, white, purple, etc.

I never thought I'd be growing some of the most difficult plants due to the light requirement. The limiting factor here perhaps temperature, pH and hardness.



> Are you going to add more Rainbows?


Well lets see if they have perfect boesemanis around  .... 3 or 4 will do great. I can always make extra space for them (removing those already exist)



> I still cannot believe the quality of the fish and plants you have available to you, beautiful stuff man !


Tropical paradise, man  

See ya all next week!


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## TheOtherGeoff

i know you are gone, but i will throw this up there anyway. that crypt you posted back on the bottom of page 4 or 5 i lost track, the on where you arent sure what it is. that is crypt pontederiifolia. and the tank is amazing looking as usuall.


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## medicineman

*equipment failure : heat wave*

I'm back to find (expected) more algae, dust and thread algae. Still managable and not a real problem. The men came when I was away and installed bamboo curtain. Now I can regulate how much is too much sunlight.

One thing I did not anticipate when leaving the tank is the failure of my DIY chiller. The alumunium condenser in the catch tank leaks coolant slowly and eventually failed. I found the temp raise to 29 C and the tank is a mess. Many plants that are not capable of surviving higher temperature shows. They rots, melts, leaves falling, turning brown, etc. This is a proof of how important your tank temp is!!

The condenser in the tank is different from the one I have in my other tank (which is running for months now at 24-25 C without any problem). I called the fridge man and ask him to find me a quality replacement ASAP  . Why is he giving me such bad product. Alumunium that corrodes in fresh water? get real!

Those plants that dies off are likely a total loss, even though they bounce back in the future, they will look so ugly that it is cheaper to replace them (there you go... another excuse for a visit to the LFS center).

Back to work. Now I'm going to fix the rightmost halide and waiting for the fridge man to come with the replacement.



> that crypt you posted back on the bottom of page 4 or 5 i lost track, the on where you arent sure what it is. that is crypt pontederiifolia


heheh... missing for several days, eh?
Thanks for the id. I do plant several crypts in my tanks and I cannot afford not to use them (they survived the heat ordeal BTW).


----------



## medicineman

After thinking when I saw the two tanks, esp the small one downstairs which survived better than this one. I'm going to have those bamboo curtains drawn down from the morning till 1-2 pm and see only short period of direct sulight hit the tank and expect less algae problem. But I have a gut feeling that the tank is not matured yet (and with all much bioload) and that is the main problem.

The previous experiences and people's posts seems to help right now with my heat problem. I use a portable houseware fan and mount it up to blow at the top of the tank. I just cant get some fan big enough for the tank as fast as possible. Thank goodness the temperature quickly drops down to 27 C. But it is quite too late. The damage is already done :icon_sad: I will kinda miss the plants that might not make it. Some are already uprooted and stems weakened.... the look are just not the same (dieing?).


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## unirdna

Equipment failure is frustrating . Especially when you are out of town. 

Chin up, Medicine man. You'll get it back. I wish I could send you some of my "cold". I need a 300w heater (running continuously) in my 46g to keep it at 25C.


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## A Hill

unirdna said:


> Equipment failure is frustrating . Especially when you are out of town.
> 
> Chin up, Medicine man. You'll get it back. I wish I could send you some of my "cold". I need a 300w heater (running continuously) in my 46g to keep it at 25C.


i second that. but in ri its been warm this year. my 200watt is runnings semi constent because light helps out during the day it averages 26.6c/76.6F daytime and 24C at night usually without the lights...

you will bounce back donw worry maybe those stems just need a bit of time...

good luck!

-=- fish newb -=-

(i finally got some rummynose! i got 6 atm and they have ick so im treating them, probably will get about 12 of them eventually for my 55g.)


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## Steven_Chong

nice tank man-- to be honest though, the ferns I saw in before did not look like bolbitis.


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## medicineman

> nice tank man-- to be honest though, the ferns I saw in before did not look like bolbitis


You are right. Those are various wet ferns that resembles bolbitis. I did not know that back then. I realized that they are terrestrial ferns which grows on damp, low lit places with constant moving water supply. I paid extra attention during my journey this time and observed there are many species of ferns that grows on the walls of streaming cliffs and waterfalls.



> I wish I could send you some of my "cold". I need a 300w heater (running continuously) in my 46g to keep it at 25C


Lol. I wish I could do the same with the heat. 300 W over 46 gallon? If so, I'm feeling quite lucky here for being able to escape with merely the same wattage to keep it 25 C (and on cheapo made chiller that runs on timer).



> you will bounce back donw worry maybe those stems just need a bit of time...


I will salvage what I can. From my previous experiences, those plants that melts are usually not usable (esp when the stems rots and floats). If the chiller is not working any soon to pull it 25 C (now stays at 27,5 C with fan and temporarily 27 C with ice). I might end up losing 15-25% of the plants, but it is not a big deal. I have gone through this many times. No pain no game.



> (i finally got some rummynose! i got 6 atm and they have ick so im treating them, probably will get about 12 of them eventually for my 55g.)


 Good. Now what did I said before about rummies. Next time look only for the best batch, ask for the biggest bag and do a dripping acclimitation. I hope they will make it.
ps: at least the rummies are still there, healthy and in the same number despite what I have lost.


----------



## lumpyfunk

This is the first time I made it back to your thread since before christmas. . .All I can say is stunning!! oh and I want one of your LFC within an hour drive of me.


----------



## medicineman

Today I salvaged the tank for whatever I can keep. After checking all the plants, I decided to remove all plants that does not survive. Yes, they might bounce back but two or three more days would never be quick enough. So in the trash they go. With falling leaves and broken rotting stems, uprooted and battered. I have a feeling that what I did will be good thing later on. Those plants that are not making it will definately pollute the tank. I still cannot re-stock plants with this kind of temperature, at least until the fridge man install the replacement part. So for now I just take some stems that are growing outside in huge buckets (I'm glad I have some spares and did not throw them away. They thrife with no tech and minimum fertilization for almost two months) which will survive in the tank at 27-27,5 C.

Some hardy plants survived the several days heat. Vals, swordplants, cypsus, cryptocoryne, Java fern, etc looking good (some Vals growing 1m+ with many runners and swordplants growing lots of seedlings). I dont know about my java moss.... they look terrible. The colour is darkening and dreaded green thread algae loves to grow in it. I hate that algae, esp in this condition. I use toothbrush and bleached some thick plants, but that stuff keeps bouncing back. Perhaps I need to start to utilize the bamboo curtain to limit sunlight to 3-4 hours a day.


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## Steven_Chong

unfortunately my initial reaction was that the "java moss" didn't look like java moss either-- my impression was that it looks like terrestrial moss.

Though, either way, terrestrial or java, 27 C is on the hot side. Mosses like it cooler in general.


----------



## medicineman

greenmiddlefinger said:


> unfortunately my initial reaction was that the "java moss" didn't look like java moss either-- my impression was that it looks like terrestrial moss.
> 
> Though, either way, terrestrial or java, 27 C is on the hot side. Mosses like it cooler in general.


There are so many species of java moss, as there are so many kinds in my tank. There are at least three kind of moss inside the tank and it is difficult for me to indentify when I buy them (all the time they are grown half emersed). I have been having some problem in getting moss in one kind, which is the long and fine hair like variety. The ones I have seen are owned by some damn stingy aquarists who wont tell me where to get one... not even selling me some. What they want is I have to buy the whole driftwood (which I'm considering now. I can always rip the moss and seed them to other wood) or decorate a whole tank with many moss for unlogic price. How about plan B? ....... punish them for their sins of being such stingy people :icon_evil 

From what I have tried in my other tank at 24-25 C, those kind of moss you have seen in this tank does survive. But I would not deny if some might be not suitable grown submerged for a long time or on a stagnant current.


----------



## medicineman

So far I have lost quite a number of fish in the tank, despite the surviving majority (due to tank condition that might not be suitable and possibly poor health of the fish when I bought them). Death list roughly goes like:

2 panda cory (one died in an hour)
1 albino cory (sucked by CO2 powerhead  and is repaired by pre-filter mesh)
3 clown loach (yes...classical reason due to ich)
2 angelfish (sucks.. I havent been able to keep the fancy long finned type)
2 hengel rasbora (stuck behind powerhead  and is repaired to prevent similar case)
2 congo tetra (one died because it was to stressed and the other one got eye disease and died by overdosing :icon_eek: )

Today I did a thorough inspection on the plants (having some time to do that). I found that many plants are way too devastated. I pulled the myriophyllum buches and find the bottom part much too bald and partially rotting. Not only that, some of the top parts are growing sideways and it looks ugly. Ceraptoteris leaves are growing many roots and they break off, leaving the mother plant skinny looking. I'm blaming high temp and one failed MH lamp for that mess (I havent got the time to shop for replacement cable and re-wire the whole thing). My higrophylla difformis is too much screwed, they growed too tall with bald leaves underneath. I did so much pulling and re-planting some of the usable tops. There is quite thick layer of debris of fine dust and rotting matter down the buch, and the tank became a mess once I did the job. I think I'll get a special tank syphon very soon (regular hose would always get jammed by the debris) and clear up all gunk.

Sun light control seems to work well. Combined by twice WC, now there are less algae growth for the last 3 days. Green thread algae grows at slower rate and dust algae seems to be declining. I still have a long way to go as I suspect the tank is too dirty by debris of floating junk as well as the layer of gunk, and that just screws up N and P level.

Well... the fridge man is not coming any soon and I'm stuck with a house fan at the top of the tank. Looks bizzare :icon_sad: 
At least with heavier evaporation and more frequent top ups, now it stays at 26,5 - 27C.


----------



## Steven_Chong

24-25 degrees C sounds good for moss.

I think when most aquarists internationally refer to "java moss," they mean _Taxiphyllum Barbieri_, which is a specific species of aquatic moss. There are many mosses that grow emersed that can be transitioned to aquatic growth, or can survive for a long time submersed, but mosses of Taxiphyllum or Vesicularia genus are probably the most reliable-- look for triangular fronds for most species of these genuses.

If you want some help identifying/caring for/sometimes even obtaining, true aquatic mosses, try the forum www.killies.com


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## jho51e

I am visiting Jakarta on the weekend of the 3Feb (but leaving tomorrow morning from Sydney), is there an aquarium shop there that is worth a visit??


----------



## medicineman

jho51e said:


> I am visiting Jakarta on the weekend of the 3Feb (but leaving tomorrow morning from Sydney), is there an aquarium shop there that is worth a visit??


Check your pm box.

A bit off topic, but I'm going to share my sources in Jakrta for building this tank.

Aquascape Stuff:
1. Aquarista. ITC Roxy Mas block E2. 
2. Fish Paradise. Jalan Kartini Raya 56F. (also SAE, exotics)

Flora and Fauna (aquarium shop center and equipment):
1. Jalan Sumenep
2. Jalan Barito
3. Jalan Kartini Raya
4. Jalan Melauwakile (under fly over)
5. Jalan Petojo

For those of you who loves this hobby too much and visiting Jakarta, I'd recommend any of one of the closest fish center to you for a good spectacle you will never find locally (that is if you are not from southeast asia). Happy hunting!

Update: the fridgeman come today and install a replacement evaporator. This time he install a used window AC evaporator (it seems anything will work for cooling). I expect the tank to cool down in a couple of hours. When the tank gets stable and cold, it is time for me to start over again... yay!


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## jho51e

Thanks Medicineman! 

by they way, do you think I will find Dupla products?


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## medicineman

*Road to recovery*

The tank is running at 25 C at last, thanks to a new window AC evaporator. I even got ice forming down the cooler line.  A very good news for the building of this tank.

I did a vaccum cleaning to get rid the remaining of the dead stuff. I kept thinking of a better way to do this and came up with a simple way. Using a soda bottle cut into half and stuck a hose and start syphoning. The large volume creates just the right velocity and vaccum power, keeping the plants planted while its covers large area, easing the job. I cleaned many things this way; the gravel, java fern huge leaves, wood and even java moss (no need to take em out for a wash). The result is satisfactional. I got cleaner water and more attractive grounds.

Some plants looks like they will not make it. More than a week of 27C+ kills them and no sign yet of bouncing back, while others seems to thrife, back to life. I'm still amazed by the other "hot" plants that throw ups many plantlets and runners. If I had been living in the USA, I might have made some money from selling them  

It seems that the new bamboo curtain does its job too well in regulating just the right amount of sunlight into the tank. I'm slowly winning the battle against dust and spot algae, while thread algae growth is much more manageable, all without the aid of three treatments worth of aglaecide I have at bay. I believe the best is to let the tank mature and balance it well. My 260 gal #1 is on the way to that and I have seen it done before on my 25 gal tank with 3,5+wpg, I dont have to scrub it for a week and yet it is growing like jungle! :thumbsup: 

I'll post some updates later.


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## medicineman

Some for some update!

After getting back on track and another re-scaping, several days old.

I present to you the whole shot of the tank










You can note useful bamboo curtain on the background. Regulating sunlight never have been this easy  

More pics to come...


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## medicineman

The trio cabomba species. I just like to replace frilly part with another frilly stuff, only with a fresher package.



















Look closely and you will find all three. What do you think of the combination? If you ask me I'd say the two types of green and the texture contrast nicely with the surroundings. The red one knocks me off... I couldnt resist planting it! It looks like red roses underwater


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## TheOtherGeoff

tank is gorgious. i like it very much. still looks wonderful


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## qoperator

The tank looks great. Very clean, and a lot of room to grow. That cabomba looks awesome. The red, "OH MY GOD." Great tank. One day i'll get me one that big, but I will have to learn how to tame a bobcat before I try a lion.:thumbsup:


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## medicineman

The right part where MH lights is out for a week before I repaired the wiring. Some plants that doesnt make it are replaced.










lower portion


----------



## Wö£fëñxXx

Very nice setup man, Impressive!!:thumbsup:


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## Happy Camper

HO-LEE cow, what a sweet tank. I like your lighting setup, very innovative. Do you achieve good levels of co2 with your internal diffuser?

Very nice tank indeed. :eek5:


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## medicineman

Happy Camper said:


> HO-LEE cow, what a sweet tank. I like your lighting setup, very innovative. Do you achieve good levels of co2 with your internal diffuser?
> 
> Very nice tank indeed. :eek5:


Well... I think I managed to reach the wanted level. The problem is, sometimes a fraction of tiny CO2 bubbles would escape from the reactor and they end up drifting micronized C02 that (depending on how you like it) might be a nuisance. Such escaping bubbles, in my opinion, are a waste. They are better useful when competely dissolved.

Back to the tank...

These amazon swordplants I have in the tank are making themselves at home, despite all the mishaps that happenend for weeks. They have gone through 30 C, partial lighting failure and algae from excessive sunlight. They are still there and threatening the tank with all those many stems with tiny plantlets. What a hardy species!


----------



## cozmo

who makes the co2 reactor? what size powerhead does it require?
thanks


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## medicineman

cozmo said:


> who makes the co2 reactor? what size powerhead does it require?
> thanks


You can see the details on the reactor right http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/e...-reactor-review.html?highlight=cheapo+reactor

The size of powerhead I'm using now is around 400 gallon/hour. For smaller tank, simply reduce the amount of balls used and less powerfull water current.

To the tank again...

The front lines and the dark spots are on average cryptocorines. Plenty of cryptocorines in this tank. I've seem people using much more cyptocorines the height of 50 cm+.... unbelieveable. I guess you cannot trust on the books on how huge some of those crypts can be.


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## lumpyfunk

wow, Great looking tank, I really like the "trio" and your Congos! Please keep up with the pics.


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## dudleystinks

how do you keep your cabomba so bushy i baught some and it has grown twice its height in 2 weeks but is no longer bushy.

also how do you keep it planted mine always uproots and floats around the tank its a very annoying plant. How do you trim it because if you cut it at the top it looses the nice shape

nice tank though wish i could have one that size!


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa

Wow amazing tank! That red cabomba is fantastic, I think this is the first time I've seen the red variety. Keep up the great work


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## colombian4lyf

Wow, I just went through all 10 pages and it's very impressive.


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## medicineman

> how do you keep your cabomba so bushy i baught some and it has grown twice its height in 2 weeks but is no longer bushy.
> 
> also how do you keep it planted mine always uproots and floats around the tank its a very annoying plant. How do you trim it because if you cut it at the top it looses the nice shape


You will want high intensity lighting to keep cabomba species bushy with short internodes. Not just lots of watt, but area intensity. In short, metal halides will do the job. I keep them at bay by platinh them in a bunch of 4-5 using small clay pots or by tying them gently to a small piece of stone. You want to look at your tank temperature also, make sure it is not too hot. There are several species of cabomba which can be differentiated from the shape of the leaves, the internodes and the flower. Some does not tolerate low-medium-high light and thrife only under very high light, cool, soft water.
Dont trim the top. Cut half of it and replant the tops. That way you get the bushy look with shorter internodes.



> Wow amazing tank! That red cabomba is fantastic, I think this is the first time I've seen the red variety


Now you see it. Be aware that this variety of cabomba is the most difficult one to keep. I have no idea how long this one would last in my tank. I hope months.


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## medicineman

The leftmost driftwood was replaced by other driftwood which I kept inside my pond. A good way to store driftwood you want to use at bay (even though drifwoods rot faster this way). I just want to update a fresh look without a major tear-down.

As I expect.. the new growth of my rotalas are a bit greenish red. I wonder how the plant farmers manage to create totally red rotalas. Perhaps my lighting at 5000-6000K is not high enough.

The sides of the tank

Left










Right


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## medicineman

The gigantea vals on the background. They are notorious for dying off when transplanted. Give them some time and a good condition to cope with. Mine survived through high temp and thrife from sunlight supplement for more than a week. Slowly but sure taking the tank over and reaching length of 1+ meter. I'm waiting towards all individuals to even out reaching giant growth.


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## medicineman

The center part










I love how all the fish turn out nowadays. My SAEs are hardworking grazer and not liotering pigs that waits for feeding time. The rainbow sharks, even though are quite territorial, proves to be as useful as SAEs. The tank comes alive during feeding time now that they know that they are being fed. No more shy congo tetras. The red rainbows always initiate feeding frenzy, followed by a swarm of rasboras and red noses. Then the congos would comes into berserk, diving into the food (and even my fingers). God I love them fish when they are tamed!

The battle agaist algae has been good so far. I got less dust algae growth on the glass, even though those on the leaves are the main problem. The thread algae dissapears magically. Must have been lighting control, or perhaps the gunk and trash, maybe the fake java moss and rotting driftwood that I swapped. The battle is still far from over but I'm winning for sure. It usually will never be over on a high tech tank, not to mention the tank is still far away from maturity (especially the way I keep changing plants and all those species selections that are too hard to keep under most tank).


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## medicineman

*Feb 16 2006*

Today's update:

A funny thing that my red plants are turning greenish while my green plants are turning reddish.

My ambulia actually turns from green to yellowish red, with huge bulge by the tops. I guess this is the result of blasting high light and some direct sunlight onto a plant.

Watch this rotala. I still have not get it right to induce red into the new growth. However, I'm still satistied to find it actually grows without any issue in the tank. The leaves are growing normally and quite fast. This pic is taken around 10 days after planting.









My furcata cabomba is not too happy with the tank condition. I have to do more research on this plant to find out what it hates. I want to keep the plant healthy since it is too good to be missed.


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## jimmydrsv

I can't get over how different that rotala looks from mine. The stem seems so much larger in proportion to the leafs and so oval.


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## medicineman

jimmydrsv said:


> I can't get over how different that rotala looks from mine. The stem seems so much larger in proportion to the leafs and so oval.


As I'm writing this down, the pic is already outdated by some 5-6 days. Now they grow longer leaves on a thinner new stems and the green colouration seems to change a bit to reddish. I have no idea if this is just an adaptation process or my rotala and yours are different variety. Time will tell.


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## medicineman

Sure I got a nice tank, a nice selection, nice combination, blah blah etc...

But frankly I'm not quite happy as yet right now with what I got. I feel that something else is very wrong. Not all plants thrife in there. If you think hygrophylla poliserma is an easy weed, it surprises me that this plant does not do very well in here. I highly suspect that I have been poisoning my own tank with ferts that I dont really know if I need them in current amount. If you look closely, it seems that only plants that are able to withstand high hardness and high pH can cope well. It gets to me that dosing KCl do more harm than good due to excess Cl content that might damage plants thin cells.

What do you think? I still need serious help here and hope someone can lead me to a right way.

For now I'm trying a 40% WC with no MgSO4 and less KCl added and lets see how plants react.

anyway, here is ambulia that turns funky from green origin (and it seems to cope in the tank as well)


----------



## fredyk

Let's use an anlalogy
let's say if there a range of 1-9. 
plant A likes it at 1, 
plant B likes it at 9, 
and most plants do well in the 5 range. 

You're providing a generally good tank condition which some plants may be on the edge of that curve and not like it 

Get everything going nicely with plants growing well. then after awhile, adapt a fewer difficult plants, which may never take to a generalized condition. 
By the way, I always reduce ferts for algae infestation, which i have to do right when i get home to get rid of some algae LOL
And most plants do well in that reduced fert condition.
Mark


----------



## BSS

First chance to take a good look at this thread. Great job of documenting the progress. You seem to have a very good eye for contrasts and layout. I love the differing shapes and colors. 

Thanks for the ride!
Brian.


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## medicineman

> First chance to take a good look at this thread. Great job of documenting the progress. You seem to have a very good eye for contrasts and layout. I love the differing shapes and colors.
> 
> Thanks for the ride!
> Brian.


Great that people are enjoying the documentation. I hope it can help others on doing their planted tank as well as being a good eye-pleaseing entertainment. The ride is going to be a long one as I'm far from finished... there are too many things I have not achieve.

Fredy - thats why it is time for me to stop doing gut feeling and guessing what do I need based on own/other's experiences. I'm determined and quite desperate to get some quality brand name test kits for KNO3, phosphate, pH, kH and gH. Tomorrow I'm going out just to look for them. At least hardness and a good pH indicator that is better than pH strip. First thing is first, I need to know how hard my water is, then determine how much CO2 do I have. After that doing some research about any ill effect of Cl- in KCl. I mean that is a form of chloride and I have no idea in state of ion will it hurt plant cells. From here things may get better because I will not be critically overdosing/underdosing anymore, then do a plant selection gradually. In the end each of my tanks might be home to different plants of common demands.


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## medicineman

Funky colours of ambulia must be coming from over exposure. The lower parts are looking normal and green. Anyway.. they grow just nice. Colour gradient from top to bottom, nice and bushy with no deformation and excess breakage. Never though that intense MH lighting can have such adverse effect... just tough choise of lighting from the beginning with deeper tanks. 









As I'm writing this, the condition of the rotalas seems to be changing gradually as the stems are getting thinner and the green leaves are turning some red hue. I should keep this on track


----------



## jimmydrsv

Hey, I was wondering how you managed to attach the baby tears to your wood. Did you just tie it down or wedge a small piece in and let it grow?


----------



## medicineman

jimmydrsv said:


> Hey, I was wondering how you managed to attach the baby tears to your wood. Did you just tie it down or wedge a small piece in and let it grow?


I obtained all my baby tears as a patch, more like patches of carpet moss. All I did is tie them up to the wood with some lines. I've tried thumtacs as well, but proved not as tight fitting as the lines . I cannot guarantee that they will grow as good as moss does on wood. But it always last for months at my place, under uncertainty because I did not have damn test kit to keep delicate things in check (I'm just desperate for some time to take a good tour to find good german test kits).

By the way, my rotalas looks more like the ones in your avatar as days goes by. Now the new green parts are slowly turning some red hue. Perhaps the plant farmers cultivate it in shallow running water that it look so red, stout and sturdy?


----------



## wildiana

why have a contest? just give this guy the 200.00 bucks, and some extra for having the best house and camera! 


but on the seriuse tip. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: awsome!!!


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## medicineman

wildiana said:


> why have a contest? just give this guy the 200.00 bucks, and some extra for having the best house and camera!
> 
> but on the seriuse tip awsome!!!


I'm flattered...
There are also many good tanks and pictures out there, you know. Anyway I'm kinda too far to collect the prize :icon_roll 

Anyway...

This is how the rotala become today (fresh pics). Pinkish hue start to appear from the green new growth. Hopes it get to be totally red someday.










Latest pic of my rainbow shark. I would not recommend more than one in a tank. There are two in my tank and they harras each other for grazing territory, but not agressive towards other fish (just a bit to SAE).
This one is a pig, grazing algae all day long. Just take a look at how big its belly is  










One of 40ish Hengeli rasbora in the tank. It is quite tricky to shoot these guys. They are always on a move in a school, occupying mostly mid to upper level. This one still has a big belly from lunch.










An albino chinese algae eater. I know how people wont recommend this one. I wonder how long will it last before growing too big and causing problems. For now it does its job well with a big belly of algae and a heap of crap hanging from its backside.


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## unirdna

Wonderful rainbow shark. Best color I have EVER seen! If they looked like that in the pet stores, I might have been convinced to buy one - always passed them up for red-tail sharks. Nice rasbora shot, as well. So hard to get a good, focused photo of those fish; they are _always_ zipping around.

Great stuff, Mr. Medicine roud:


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## Wö£fëñxXx

2 is a bad number for Rainbow's or Redtail's, they should be kept in number's of 1,3 or more, with just 2, one will be dominate and the other will be stressed. 
I keep 4 in my community tank, this way one is not being constantly harassed, and they all have very vibrant color.

As for the Macrandra, pale growth is usually a sign of low iron and micro's.


----------



## medicineman

Ted said:


> Wonderful rainbow shark. Best color I have EVER seen! If they looked like that in the pet stores, I might have been convinced to buy one - always passed them up for red-tail sharks. Nice rasbora shot, as well. So hard to get a good, focused photo of those fish; they are always zipping around.
> 
> Great stuff, Mr. Medicine


It has been quite a makeover for the rainbow shark from when I bought them. You can see in my previous shot of that fish on early january that my rainbow sharks are not as attractive as tiny juvenille. Now that they grow up a bit and supplied with plenty of algae (despite that I have too much algae crew), they just turn from ugly catterpilars to butterflies.

The shots are taken on well lighting, and some luck (not to forget a SLR camera to do that). Another key is to observe the fish behaviour, pick your spot for best lighting, set the camera well and wait. You have to do it free hand because fast action is needed.



Craig said:


> 2 is a bad number for Rainbow's or Redtail's, they should be kept in number's of 1,3 or more, with just 2, one will be dominate and the other will be stressed.
> I keep 4 in my community tank, this way one is not being constantly harassed, and they all have very vibrant color.
> 
> As for the Macrandra, pale growth is usually a sign of low iron and micro's.


Quite reasonable on the rainbows. I'm agree with that (and looking for one more to accompany the two).

I added more micro and iron than usual just to look at how the macranda will react. I should be thinking of some PMDD mix for trace and iron. All my tanks are consuming much brand name Fe/trace mix and frankly will cost me something on the long run.... you know with two 260 gallon to dose the bottle is going to be empty in two weeks.

All right... time for more pics!!!

Now is the turn for Rummynose tetra










http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photoplog/index.php?n=5

and in school










http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photoplog/index.php?n=6

I was told there are at least three types of rummy nose in the market and luckily I have the right one (without knowing it when I brought them home).

Another one of the CAE. This one had light eyes and spotless yellow body. Another one had black eyes and someday with some luck I will get that one and show you here.










http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photoplog/index.php?n=7


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## mr.gaboozlebag

Great tank, do you know how many species of plants are in it?


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## medicineman

mr.gaboozlebag said:


> Great tank, do you know how many species of plants are in it?


There are pretty much plant in this one tank. From the starting in late december until now, it has seen many species come and go, mostly to stay. There must be at least 20-30 kinds of plants inside and I'm not too sure and dont care as long as they end up beautiful, just rescape and look for the best configuration and they wil always find a place in any of my tanks. There are more than the pictures can show, like blyxa japonica inbetween that went into camuflage, aponogeton crispus that is on the back of the wood and unseen, two types of aquatic moss that are hard to differentiate and spot, anubias petite that is covered by jungle, three types of java fern that looks just the same when you do not pay attention to the features, cryptocorines of mixed kind, some pulled old plants that lays dormant and appearing back from inside the substate, etc. Sounds like a mess but it works fine.

If I'm forced to list it right now, I'm sure I will miss some as I dont remember what I notice and I dont notice what I remember. I didnt see what I look and I dint look what I see. You will get the point...


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## Lorenceo

I can only see the small versions of the pictures 
When I click the link to the bigger one, I get this message:
We are sorry but you do not have permission to access this page.

Only Supporting members have access to this feature. If you would like to support the site please click the button below

Surely I can view the photos without being a supporting member?

Just thought I'd point this out.
Tank looks good as always medicineman. roud:


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## medicineman

Lorenceo said:


> I can only see the small versions of the pictures
> When I click the link to the bigger one, I get this message:
> We are sorry but you do not have permission to access this page.
> 
> Only Supporting members have access to this feature. If you would like to support the site please click the button below
> 
> Surely I can view the photos without being a supporting member?
> 
> Just thought I'd point this out.
> Tank looks good as always medicineman. roud:


I see. I just wanted to test out the new feature added for support members and I did not know that it is not viewable by the public. So it is time to update those pics to some image hosting sites. Will be fixed soon!

Anyway I plan to tear up my other tank (260 gallon tank #1), replacing all the substrate with some silica sand. I dont know what my current substrate contains, and so far I have only seen healthy huge tanks on silica. The #2 tank will remains as is as a control tank. Time for tiring job again.... and time to hunt more plants after that ... yay!


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## medicineman

*sister tank as a control comparation*

So the reality comes and the plan went into action. This #2 tank is the control tank to compare how things go in #1 tank. Tearing up the sister tank is not a happy job... but it is for the good and it will be one of my ultimate experience. Should the new substrate works as how it works well on local gurus tanks, all of my tanks will never be the same again. I will escape my problem about how some plants can never survive in my tanks.


----------



## lumpyfunk

Wow that is a large project. I wish you the best of luck with it and I will follow your progress. btw thanks for keeping such detailed records and sharing them with all of us!


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## Architect1

wow amazing tanks. but wheres the discus lol. thats amazing its a whole like eco system i only wish i had the money and time to do that. vary good work.


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## medicineman

lumpyfunk said:


> Wow that is a large project. I wish you the best of luck with it and I will follow your progress. btw thanks for keeping such detailed records and sharing them with all of us!


Hey it was a pleasure sharing my joy with the forum members. I'm happy and people who stop by are also happy and motivated when they see other's tanks.



Architect1 said:


> wow amazing tanks. but wheres the discus lol. thats amazing its a whole like eco system i only wish i had the money and time to do that. vary good work


A good eco system (if you like to build that way) is also doable in a smaller scale. Smaller is not always less beautiful, so you better cheer up! One day in the future you migfht have thefund (and hopefully some spare time to spend) to do it. There is no discus in my tanks... because I have problem with high temp. Discus love it at slightly warmer condition and most plants hates it. I have tried two times keeping anglefish in the tank (they require same warm condition as discus) and each time they end up dead. Perhaps one day in another tank. Really, I love discus especially the good (and would be expensive) specimens. I kept discus before in the past about a decade ago. They gone to a friend who bought them all, and he had better luck and suceed in rearing them to produce fry. After that I played with oscars, mean and hardy fish.



> The shift key is your friend


what shift key? the one on my keyboard? Yes it is one of my friend. Comes in handy when I have to open multiple screens while browsing the forum


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## medicineman

I did a little experiment on the substrate since it seems not to be rated and quite unfamous to use in aquascape right here. 1/3 gallon of distilled water (kH and gH = 0), fill it 20% with my substrate and leave it for three days to simulate WC in the tank. I did a reading and kH =0, gH=0. So it is proved scientifically that the substrate does not leach any hardness into water. That makes it extra save and stable in terms of hardness management.

Another shot of a plant that I did not show well enough so far. This one, I believe is a kind of bacopa and it has been in the tank since the second/third week. The lower leaves are not in so good shape because in the past this tank has gone through the worst days (check catasthrope on previous posts). The top leaves, however are quite satisfactionary with green, clean foliages. I hope I will never see any plants darken and badly algae covered again in this tank...


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## medicineman

*trace and fe experiment*

Ok... now it has been around 6 days since I find out that my tap is already 9 kH and 12 gH and since then I have stopped totally the use of MgSO4 and Calcium supplement.

I have started higher dose of trace and Fe+3 treatment in form of commercial product, dumping more than what I usually did and add it in small doses every day.

I have not yet see significant growth/recovery on the vals. Some that are good are just ok, but those that are creasing and turning white are shedding. The swordplants are ok actually, the only issue is the tiny leaflets that are sprouting from the aerial stems which does not look at best. 

However.... I did notice some of my plants are getting the benefit of less hard water (and definately more trace and Fe+3). Check this out

Look at the tops of this alternanthera(?) (dont look at the bottom as they are victim of all maltreatment in the past). Growing taller and new leaves are satisfactionary.










How about these rotalas? Man I'm surprised to take a good look at them, how they grow so tall (background for comparison) these days while remaining thick-stemmed. The red hue is not there yet though. Only the underise and a bit on the top side are reddish.










But not these sunset hygro... even though they do improve a bit, there are still some that sheds. They are not exploding yet and it makes me sick  Why such invasive weed cannot thrife in the tank? Those much more difficult rotala and althernanthera(?) can do well enough  










I will resume the experiment and see how plants and algae respond. There is nothing but learning everything first hand. Because all tanks are never the same


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## medicineman

*feeling sad*

It is getting obvious that the sister tank which is re-set up with a different substrate two weeks ago is growing better than this one. Even those weed hygro poliserma are growing bigger with robust stems. In two weeks time I managed to harvest some 1/2 lb of hornwort from that new setup which is far from stable.

So it is getting obvious that this tank is shortlived and its days is numbered..... and it makes me kinda sad.... I will miss the dark substrate very much :icon_sad: 

I'm actually not too fond to have light coloured substrate, especially now I have to do it in each of my tanks just for the sake of having healthy, normal plants. A very expensive price to pay. I have to buy some 300-350 lbs of new substarte, painstakingly wash them clean, throw away another tank of old substrate (along with 4 bags worth of precious base fertilizer), risk all my hard hunted good specimens fish dying from stress (I will try a system using that koi pond for a shelter), etc..... :icon_cry: ... as if the lost from the sister tank is not enough.

I will have to swallow this bitter pill because it seems the only way to cure my aquascape illness... and likely to be the last decisive factor that limits me from reaching the ultimate healthy plants. I can always limit my plants to very narrow variety in order to keep using the old black substrate.... but then.....  

Any suggestion and kind words are welcome to ease this poor soul....


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## medicineman

Looking again at the now better growing sister tank I'm hopeless but feeling like a jack ass donkey...

The days is really numbered and running out.

I already driven my pickup truck last weekend to get some 500lbs+ of silica sand. I will get sore hands for sure from cleaning then (so are the boys who will be helping me clean em good).

After that a good hunt on base fertilizer which is currently a rare item. Luckily a fellow local scapist happens to stock some and let me buy them, which is a good news that the delay will not be prolonged.

Just a few days more for cleaning and it will be the time to tear up. I'll be collecting some huge drums of buckets to hold the fishies and hope that they will make it trough. If you have any idea on how to make use of my koi pond without releasing them small fishies inside, it would be great! They will be alive until balance for sure. I can spare some more of the rasbora school in the quarantine tank (as they were there before... all 45-50 of them for almost three weeks without any isuue). I'm really concerned with those 40 rummy nose, they are so sensitive... will they make it for several days in a huge bucket of 10 gallon or so with only aerator.... My other tank can only support some and not all since it is already occupied, and it would be a PITA to catch them back. SAE definately will go to 25 gallon tank so it will be easy to get them later.


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## TheOtherGeoff

the top red plant you posted up above is ammiana gracillis. its one of my favorite plants and it looks pretty good still.


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## bastalker

Your tank is an awsome picture of health for sure! You definitely have all the params goin in the right direction.

Great job!!roud: 

That shark looks like it is in heaven!! Ya ever wanna just go to the LFS, pick up a few of the employees, drive em over to your place, an just watch their jaw drop??:hihi:


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## lumpyfunk

if the koi pond has a flat bottom, you could make a "fence" out of nylon screening and some type of framing material like egg crate for fluorescent lighting, weight it down and hope for the best.

I am sad to hear that you are tearing this one down, imo the tank looks wonderful. But I am sure that like me you are your own harshest critic. good luck on this!


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## medicineman

Hah! I just found out something interesting yesterday.... (still washing those darn dirty substrate right now).

1. I remembered about the city's water company line that we have by the yard.
2. Has not been used in ages... it is there for emergency because our well water is already good (why buy when you have it by your own yard?).
3. The good thing is that line is running strong. So I let it ran for 5 minutes and take some sample. 
4. Did some measurements with the calibrated test kit I have.... and EUREKAAA!!! gH=4 and kH=3.... now we are speaking good water for soft water plants...  

No chloramine is used in our city's water. Onlys some chlorine which is easy and cheap to get rid of... just let it stay in open container for 2-3 days and it is ready to use.

Looking good for the future


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## medicineman

*total tear up*

Today the time is up. I have had enough with limited growth and poor plant health so far. Even though I prefer black over any other substrate, it still got to go!

With new substrate all washed and enough laterite-based fertilizer at bay (thanks to a friend), the tank undergone a complete makeover.

The job is not finished yet but it already took almost a day to set up the basic scape. I'm quite dead beat right now...

So I tore up the tank, take out all plants and hardscapes, prepare them right by the kinds in buckets and wet newspapers. The water is drained next. 



















It is proved to be very difficult to catch all the fish, even in shallow water condition. So I stack the substrate a bit, dividing the tank into 3 puddles then drain more water. With three tiny puddles to escape, the job is very easy... like those storks dining on drying pond.

Those fish goes into huge buckets with lids, which proved to be critically useful as those jumpers started to do their jobs as soon as they are removed into the buckets. Not as bad as I thought, with some java ferns and anubias inside now that they seems to settle down. I just have to make sure to change some 20-30% of the water each day to minimize ammonia and such toxic waste. 










Painstakingly get all 300+ lbs of black substrate form the tank on the second floor to downstairs and carry some 300+ lbs of new substrate to the second floor. Man... this is killing me! (even though I had some hands to help).

A good, very funny spectacle to watch... look at that big fish I got!










Poor guy he had to go inside to clean all the mess :icon_evil 
I'm just far too big to go inside while he is almost half my size :icon_roll ... lol

After everything is painstakingly cleared enough, the fert-substrate cocktail went in, followed by a layer of substrate-only. The substrate is somewhat different from the sister tank. It is less white with lots of gray-white mix, and slightly bigger too. So no worries of it getting anaerobic later on.


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## medicineman

I use some of the old hardcape with some re-positioning. There are still some woods in the pond and well see if I can use any, which will be a slow imaginary process...










Some plants goes in. There are still many more inside the buckets and I'm running out of time and stamina. An unfinished job for tommorow while waiting the water to be stabilised enough for fish.










I definately need some new plants and possibly some woods. Lets see what can I find at the local market this weekend.


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## leemacnyc

Hey Medicineman: Looks like an adventure...Wish i was there to help out...Good luck with everything!


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## esarkipato

Ummmmm . . . seeing that child/fish in there really gave me some perspective on how big these 260's are! Lookin good, hard work and research is paying off! 
What's new plan for foreground?


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## bastalker

Is that a bottle I see in there? Going for the natural look?:hihi: 

Good start again for sure!!roud:


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## medicineman

leemacnyc said:


> Hey Medicineman: Looks like an adventure...Wish i was there to help out...Good luck with everything!


Well... the hardest delicate part was removing the fish since they are the only thing that can go wrong easily. I had some help but yet not finished... tired like when I did #1 tank 3 weeks ago.



esarkipato said:


> Ummmmm . . . seeing that child/fish in there really gave me some perspective on how big these 260's are! Lookin good, hard work and research is paying off!
> What's new plan for foreground?


Actually he is not a child.... lol
Just a young man which happens to be local standard size.
Some more plants will go in as I'm not finished (still in buckets). Since there are many damaged/unhealthy plants, I will need some new plants. Foreground will be filled with trimmed stems, crypts and probably whatever carpet plant I can find (riccia on metal wire mesh as the most common, but quite troublesome to maintain).


----------



## medicineman

leemacnyc said:


> Hey Medicineman: Looks like an adventure...Wish i was there to help out...Good luck with everything!


Well... the hardest delicate part was removing the fish since they are the only thing that can go wrong easily. I had some help but yet not finished... tired like when I did #1 tank 3 weeks ago.



esarkipato said:


> Ummmmm . . . seeing that child/fish in there really gave me some perspective on how big these 260's are! Lookin good, hard work and research is paying off!
> What's new plan for foreground?


Actually he is not a child.... lol
Just a young man which happens to be local standard size.
Some more plants will go in as I'm not finished (still in buckets). Since there are many damaged/unhealthy plants, I will need some new plants. Foreground will be filled with trimmed stems, crypts and probably whatever carpet plant I can find (riccia on metal wire mesh as the most common, but quite troublesome to maintain).



bastalker said:


> Is that a bottle I see in there? Going for the natural look?
> Good start again for sure!!


Ow... please do not mind the bottle. It is just a part of my DIY syphon that fell off and I forgot to take it out. Any other odd stuff within the tank in the picture is not part of the scape  . Nice start... back ache and sore feet, bruised fingers and tired soul.... lol


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## unirdna

medicineman said:


> Actually he is not a child.... lol
> Just a young man which happens to be local standard size.


LOLOL. This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time :hihi:

Heck of a redo, Medicineman


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## medicineman

See... I told ya it was funny  

I'm thinking of some camuflage to cover those pipes. Perhaps some rounded wood tied up/jigsawed together, then cover it with some moss wall (this time I order original, either willow/taiwan/singapore moss from a fellow) and some ferns. Time to go for hunting. A long way to go to maturity, so we will be looking at many stem plants real soon to help it out. Maybe I will try out that furcata again with kH3 and gH4 I have this time.


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## lumpyfunk

I am already getting jealous just thinking of the things you will find on your little jaunt to the local market. . .the selection you have would put me in the poor house in short order.


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## medicineman

lumpyfunk said:


> I am already getting jealous just thinking of the things you will find on your little jaunt to the local market. . .the selection you have would put me in the poor house in short order.


Hunting on the local plants "flea" market is like mining gold in a landmine dotted area. You just have to be someone who knows plants very well or otherwise as I have proved that there are so many bog plants on sale. Pick the wrong one and you will wonder if you have failed in keeping plant - the fact is that it is the plant that failed you and not otherwise.

But somehow you are right about the wide selections (well.. there are virtually many more of exotic tropica stuff and imports by a friend's house for sale at special price). Lets see what I have picked today... they just got to go inside the fridge for now as I will continue my work tommorow.

I have cabomba furcata, caroliana, aquatica. Rotala macranda, rotundifolia. Bacopa moneri, bacopa caroliana. Gigantea and tortifolia vals. African hygrophylla, sunset hygrophylla, and another hygrophylla that I dont know the name of. Some tiger lotus. Trying another bunch of stellata and try my luck at L aromatica... many more...


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## esarkipato

> Actually he is not a child.... lol


geeez, tank's bigger than I thought . . .

And about the bottle, don't worry about it - I'd be drinking heavily too if I had to tackle a project that big LoL, plus who would want to go swimming after all that work?


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## TheOtherGeoff

looks like fun. 

i think the new hardscape is very promiseing looking. should be really nice once its all said and over with.


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## medicineman

*getting into shape*

I scaped what I can within my limited time. Tomorrow I will finish it for sure with the whole weekend to spend. Some plants are still in the buckets, and some others in the tank, remain unplanted. It would take some time for planning and planting and make a nice combination. How do you like it with one side green and another one contrast red?

Latest whole shot. Some plants are out of place since they are yet achored down.










With partial well water, some 60-70% of city's tap water is filled into the tank, resulting in 5 kH and 6gH. With another 20-30% WC tomorrow and 30 gallons of RO on monday, I'm sure those figures will drop down 1-2 points.
I decided to try some of those soft-medium water plants since now I have ample source of such water.

Here is L aromatica, still in emersed shape and it will take some time to morph. I'm dreaming of those long, colourful leaves out of this one.










Stellata. Said to be very difficult and I have failed badly in the past. With new substrate and softer water... why not give it another shot?










You see I love the red stuff.. and so here it is another furcata to try... (of course with aquatica/caroliana companion for contrast)


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## medicineman

Since it is considered a weed and in the old setup it always died, so here it is hygrophylla poliserma. I'm sure this time it wont die and hopefully grow tall and bushy (optimistic with new substrate and softer water).










I renew the creasing vals. Just look at how thick and dark green these gigantea vals are! I wonder how did the farmers treat it?










On my visit to the market, I cannot help myself with succulent looking green bacopas... so here they are ending up inside the tank to add more light green (and I heard that it wont grow too tall under water).










Since the rotalas are going strong in the old setup, I use it again with some more addition from the market. The new plants are slightly bushier with shorter internodes. I will try to achieve that look!










That is it for today. Tomorrow is the time to do more tweaking and preparing small driftwood to attach those ferns (and I will nail those wood onto bigger wood - tieing is not practicable in some position).


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## yoink

Even unfinished, the tank looks really good. I wish we had that kind of plant availability here in indiana.


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## A Hill

stunning as always... one question tho what are those wierd plant weights on the stem plants? i think its the 4th from last pic. those look interesting are they tericada?:icon_roll 

o and i really like the half red half green thing. REALLY dramatic.

-=- fish newb -=-


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## medicineman

Fish Newb said:


> stunning as always... one question tho what are those wierd plant weights on the stem plants? i think its the 4th from last pic. those look interesting are they tericada?:icon_roll
> 
> o and i really like the half red half green thing. REALLY dramatic.
> 
> -=- fish newb -=-


Those weights actually just some potting clays. I dont use them when I plant because they are too small, restricting plant growth and some plants seems doesnt like it. Some other weights are just ingenious and natural... by pieces of rocks and bricks and I'm not using them either this time. The substrate has good holding capacity and I can even plant stems one by one with no problem



yoink said:


> Even unfinished, the tank looks really good. I wish we had that kind of plant availability here in indiana.


Just some imagination, really. In fact mostly I did not plan for something when I shop. I dont know what to buy and I just buy from experience and what I like. Well... it is just a tropical paradise here with those farms by the mountainside in areas where bottled mineral water factories are located. So the water is pretty good and plants grow well. I'm also sometimes stunned by the quality of some plant sources.


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## bastalker

I see ya went shopping!!roud:

Man what I would do for a market like that around here. There are no LFS's around me that carry quality plants, or very many plants at all for that matter..All I get is "I can order whatever ya want."
So can I bud... It would be nice to just walk to a place, pick out what ever ya want and save the shipping cost. Nevermind the wait!!

Looks like yer fixin to kick it into high gear, an it will be an amazing tank by the looks of things!!


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## medicineman

Fixed some patch and the tank is almost done. A little bit of fish, will be returning them back gradually since I have purposely left the filter tank untouched. There are still some plants and I'm still thinking about where to place them. I have two pieces of wood, right for the pipes and some taiwan moss on order to skin it up, with additional ferns. Time to rest a bit and continue one-two hours later.

Silhuette from natural lighting... murky water again due to planting


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## Betowess

Whoo... This is quite the thread and It is a GAS to read !! :thumbsup: Some of your fish and most of your plants will sure be happier with that softer water! Glad you figured out a new water source. I like this new 'scape even better. I don't know how I missed this thread for so long. I didn't realize it was on your second tank, let alone, the fourth of your big tank 'scapes. It sure is a pleasure to follow along MM! 

I'm curious, how do you clean the sides of the tank? You don't take off the lights do you - so there must be room to get your arms in the sides? And you must have some long tools and such. Also, why is the silca sand considered to be better for ultra big planted tanks? It seems to me that not many in the USA go that way, although I see it in various Asian and European tanks. I always thought it was too prone toward compression and anaerobic zones.

Lastly, if you don't like the white substrate, you could always top dress it with some darker pebbles and stones. Just a thought.

Anyhow, thanks again for sharing your whale of a tank! Its beautiful work. 
Cheers, bob


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## medicineman

Betowess said:


> Whoo... This is quite the thread and It is a GAS to read !! :thumbsup: Some of your fish and most of your plants will sure be happier with that softer water! Glad you figured out a new water source. I like this new 'scape even better. I don't know how I missed this thread for so long. I didn't realize it was on your second tank, let alone, the fourth of your big tank 'scapes. It sure is a pleasure to follow along MM!
> 
> I'm curious, how do you clean the sides of the tank? You don't take off the lights do you - so there must be room to get your arms in the sides? And you must have some long tools and such. Also, why is the silca sand considered to be better for ultra big planted tanks? It seems to me that not many in the USA go that way, although I see it in various Asian and European tanks. I always thought it was too prone toward compression and anaerobic zones.
> 
> Lastly, if you don't like the white substrate, you could always top dress it with some darker pebbles and stones. Just a thought.
> 
> Anyhow, thanks again for sharing your whale of a tank! Its beautiful work.
> Cheers, bob


Glad you are here bob!

Yea.. I rescaped my tanks more than four times, thanks to the wrong choise of substrate 

I can reach the sides of the tank, although it is the most difficult part to work on. Some tools can help a bit, but the limited space and such angle makes it a pain to work. Well you can see that a person can go inside with my light fixture on. Glad I designed it that way. Everytime I need to touch anything inside it is best that I go topless since I'll be washing my armpits as well.... :hihi:

I use silica sand because all sucessfull scapes, big and small are using it. Yes it is famous right here with the pros, but it is merely inert grains of sand. It is so far the best substrate that I have worked on. I can even plant my stem one by one without any weights! Imagine that. On regard with the concern of going anaerobic, it is just a matter of choosing the right grade of silica sand. Go for more homogen grains the size of 3-5mm (less than that is in danger) and preferably the smooth edged one. These sand is mainly mined off coast of the Indonesian islands, so choosing the right source is crucial. Washing is a PITA though... you will need to clean those sea traces for good (mud, salts, sometimes dirt and sticks). The plus of silica sand is because of availability, result and pricing. Using silica sand means you have to use some kind of bottom fertilization in form of prepared high CEC materials.


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## medicineman

Soooo... those tall slender, slightly curved driftwood that I bought went to the boiler last night and ready to use now. Attached some ferns and it is done. Some fine positioning... and... darn it they are not tall enough (or my tank is way too tall). I guess I had to look for more small wood next time and stick them on top.










Planted lots of crypts from the old setup as the foreground. For now I have to focus on low maintenance since my primary goal is growing healthy plants. Fancy riccia, glosso HC carpet can go in later on maturity.

And I'm almost done (still need some tweaking and leave them grow a bit.. then time to hack and slash)...










Some fish gradually went in. They seems to be at home inside those buckets... they do feed in there... But I'm not going to stress them for too long. So far casualties are one shrimp and one rainbow (which is not healthy to begin with).


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## medicineman

*settling down...*

More of the fish went in (I still have to thought on some fish - since it will be hard to catch them back). Taiwan moss arrived from a fellow local scapist and I tied them on some wood. Looking good so far with no sign of stress form the plants. I'm still waiting for my 25 gallons of RO water to arrive, hopefully tomorrow, mixing them with partial tap water to bring down gH to 4 and kH to 3. 

Since the gravel is no longer disturbed, the water slowly turned clear and I here are some pics :

front whole shot









side


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## A Hill

still looks amazing.......


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## medicineman

Some details :

Hygrophylla corymbosa "compact". The one inside the other tank is growing ever compact with attractive light green leaves. Hope these will also be great.









To the left of rotala macranda are these rotala indica. Still in cuttings, and we'll see if it ever reach full glory.









To the right of the rotala are amania gracilis (?). Continuing some its own in the old setup.


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## Planted punk

howz the hygrophila polysperma?


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## medicineman

planted punk said:


> howz the hygrophila polysperma?


Looking better than using the last substrate. New white roots are growing out by the sides and stems. Leaves looking OK, turning a bit red and no rotting stems. Perhaps this time it will work just fine.

I planted that difficult cabomba furcata at the back near rear glass so it will get light from above as well as from sunlight. It seems to be thriving with new white roots in medium soft water (kH around 5 and gH around 6). The figure will drop down a bit 1 point at least each by the time I do my next WC (tap is kH 3, gH 4)










Medium hard water plant such as this bacopa caroliana is also coping in softer water. How you love that green.... (a bit hairy because I bought it as half emersed plant).
I'm not trying egeria densa though as that plant needs super hard water to stay on top condition.


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## Planted punk

looking good now you must be chuffed


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## medicineman

*good so far...*

Things seems to be going into the right direction since I replaced substrate. I've been very careful at feeding, fertilizing and changing water more frequently (this week I changed 3x). So far no speck of algae yet, but I expect some dust algae coming somewhere in the future as that kind of algae is almost immposible to eradicate.

This sunset hygro is growing new white roots and colour is slowly changing redder. Pity though that some fish seems to love the young leaves as some appeared to be partially nibbed.










Same as this furcata cabomba... looking good so far, not leggy, still a bit red and lots of new roots.










L aromatica looks just ok and the colour is changing gradually from that plain green to reddish/purplish. Again some fish I dont know off seems to nibble on the plant at night. Those aromatica are military style short leaved now... :icon_roll 










Placing the anubias as the last (that is around 3-4 days in a bucket with no serious lighting) seems to unexpectedly help me clean the plant. Look... no more ugly specks, just the remnants of old scars


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## medicineman

Lets take a look this ammania gracilis, the same stem which I salvaged from the last setup. Dont look at the bottom as they belong to the past. Check out the tips! I've never seen any ammania gracilis in my tank growing such sweet leaves!










And these hornwort all of a sudden change into golden colour with a hue of reddish/purplish colour by the tips.










How about these old rotalas? Those new leaves sure are better and a lot redder than before.










This time I've went into the right direction for sure!


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## esarkipato

very nice. good reds in the tank. Are you using water from the newly discovered water main in your yard?


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## medicineman

esarkipato said:


> very nice. good reds in the tank. Are you using water from the newly discovered water main in your yard?


Yes I did use that water right away. But right now it is still some 25% well water (kh9, gH12) and 75% tap water (kH3, gH4). The mixture result in kH4 and gH6.

Since the water is pre-treated with some chlorine (no chloramine), I added it slowly, directly into the tank, making it fall from some 25-30cm high. There is a powerhead I set to blow the tank water to the surface and a double pumper aerator. No casualties (it does smell chlorine btw).

Speaking of good direction, this is not a water change pearling I assure you, because it was more than 30 hours ago since I swap 20% of the water. Enjoy the fine champagne, sparkling elegantly under metal halide and ray of the sun....


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## GreenerSideofLIfe

I'm amazed at the quality of the plants you can get! Everything that I manage to get...umm... looks pretty bad. Im *so* jellious!


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## medicineman

*the other perspective*



GreenerSideofLIfe said:


> I'm amazed at the quality of the plants you can get! Everything that I manage to get...umm... looks pretty bad. Im *so* jellious!


Well.... the beauty of tropical land with ample rainfall and extra fertile soil I guess (and my town is also a strategic meeting place to those farmers). You have seen nothing yet (as I havent seen everything yet). There are unbeliveably more kind of plants by the specialists who keep tropica plants, not to mention I'm pretty sure there are still more aquatic plants out there in the jungle waiting to be discovered (better hurry... the illegal loggers - the legal ones as well are destroying everything as I write  )

Now I'd like to show you a bit the beauty of having an open top. Just a different perspective of seeing the tank... high from above.

If you wonder how that sunset poliserma is doing, check this out... it is getting really pink by the tops. Note that furcata are still there, no melting yet (hope they cope in now softer water). 









I told you about funky hornwort.. believe it they change as such when the condition is met. From the top you can see well how compact and golden-pinkish the top parts are.









Now to amania gracilis. The quality difference between the old leaves and the two new rows is obvious.









Its hard to resist something like this... so if you have what it takes, do it open top!


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## medicineman

*11 days old*

After 11 days since planting the tank, slowly getting into shape and those emersed leaves are still there. 

Fish poo is building up, and I hope things soon reaching balance. Nothing is better than natural supply pf N and P from bioload.

The whole tank. Plants seems to be filling in. Must be nice to see them take over the tank...










L aromatica. Though eaten, they survive and start to look attractive. Still on the way from emersed form though, as the tops are getting colourfull...










...and the bottom appears good


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## medicineman

Dunno about this stellata... still green but thrifing. It is kinda difficult plant as I have experienced. I hope with now kH3 and gH5 it will eventually turns well


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## TheOtherGeoff

man this tank is so cool.


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## medicineman

TheOtherGeoff said:


> man this tank is so cool.


Yea.. I liked how things growing now after I do a major re-do on substrate and a new soft water source.

Still far from being nice with all emersed leaves on some plants. It is just the price of buying plants at a wide variety and cheap cost because they are mass cultivated outside water.

It bothers me that some plants are consumed (especially those buds of soft ones like stellata and L aromatica) . I guess it is time for me to retire those SAE to a hard leaf tank and start looking for amanos and ottos.

One thing I dont like too much is the slightly stainned water... those woods sure leach for a long time. I cant do a thing about it, I have no human-sized cooking pan :icon_roll 

Anyway I started to dose my own brew of fertilizer, formulation by myself... 










Time will tell if it is of any good  

The only product around here that I can believe are expensive denerle and trusty TMG :thumbsup: ... though a bit costy for big tanks...


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## medicineman

Time for a good update.

Nothing better than taking pics periodically for growth comparisons.

Full front shot. Hornwort is feeling at home, I have to throw away some every few days to keep them in check.










This rotala indica is growing ever taller. I wonder if it eventually reach the top, which is more than 70cm tall...










Taiwan moss that I bought from a friend. Settling in nicely onto the driftwood with lots of new leaves. The best moss I got so far...










It turns out that stellata can survive in the tank now. The only problem is some ugly stems with torn young leaves, was damaged by some fish. I think they are going somewhere else now, that the plant is getting better than last time. No funky colours yet, but alive and thrifing.


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## medicineman

Glad that these Hygrophylla corymbosa "compact" remains compact so far. The dark green emersed leaves are dissapearing, replaced by attractive light green ones.










Rotala macrandra. Growing nice for sure, but I havent got the way to make them fully red from top to bottom.


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## medicineman

More pics bombardment.... 

Hey, this tank can still do massive pearling. Must be a good sign (perhaps my own fert brew does work well?)










Amania gracilis is doing better every day. This one from the old setup is getting fatter by the day...


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## medicineman

Update on L aromatica.

It is surviving the initial attack (by some SAE I suppose) on the new and soft leaves. Somehow they are eaten when I'm not around and the vandalism recede now. The huge buch growed more than twice the initial size and currently turning colour from its green origin.

The top turning yellowish hue










While the bottom still purplish










Too bad it was attacked that the leaves are shorter than it supposed to be right now. I'm really waiting towards the time it grows very long leaves with great colours


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## unirdna

Great photos, Medicineman. You have solidified my identification of that plant. How would you describe the growth (speed) of L. aromatica? Do you have any other observations to offer, such as optimal N, P, Fe, temp, CO2, etc etc? Thanks for any info you can give.


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## medicineman

> How would you describe the growth (speed) of L. aromatica? Do you have any other observations to offer, such as optimal N, P, Fe, temp, CO2, etc etc?


Well Ted, I would describe the plant growing in my tank as a medium speed instead of a slow grower. It actually growed at least some 5-6 cm from two weeks ago, and I'm sure about that when I compare my full tank shot and make a comparation.

I dont know yet the optimal conditions for the plant, but my params right now:

N : 15-20 ppm
K : 15-20 ppm
temp : 25-26 C
CO2 : injected via reactor. lots of it (dont know the ppm)
gH : 4-5
kH : 3
Fe : as per own brew which consist of Fe and trace elements. (time will tell if it is any good - at least I find it not bad for now)
lighting : 2.3W/gal (remember that is it a big tank and I did not count in sunlight supplement)


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## medicineman

A new own-formulated Fe & trace fert. This time it turns out a fluoroscent green, clear solution. Initial testing proved it to be freely soluble, is not toxic enough to fish and shrimp, does not cloud or alter water colour and quite stable while in the bottle. I have stopped the use of local commercial product which proved not so great and the use of the old brew which is blood red and started using this green one. Some of my friends right here says it looks like JBL ferropol, and hopes it can be as good as one. Further testing and refining-formulation will answer that.










While this is, if you care to know is a anyhow made PMDD... just look at the mark it left on this bottle... gives the the creep to think of someone pouring this stuff into their tank.


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## jeffboyarrdee

thats amazing, its interesting to test out these new concoctions. what do you test them on? another tank? or on your 260?


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## medicineman

jeffboyarrdee said:


> thats amazing, its interesting to test out these new concoctions. what do you test them on? another tank? or on your 260?


I'm playing high stakes with two different formulations on two 260 gallon tanks. It is risky business, but I made them as save as possible (not anyhow made them, I did my little research, textbooks, pharmacy science, etc). I'm always the guy who suffers from experiments and enjoy the end results :icon_roll


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## medicineman

Time for a good update, because I bought some plants for testing and replacement.

E stellata. Now this plant is really growing, and I mean it. The damaged stems not only bounce back, but with additional 3 branches and bushy growth.










It mostly reached the side glass and I need to move it away tomorrow, with some minor re-scape. You can see the bushy new branches here. 










Hornwort is adapting again. It looks so full right now, but colour turned green.










Vallisneria gigantea is becoming a real giant with those leaves reaching the surface, some are more than 160cm long (one reaching 190cm).


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## medicineman

The next time you see this tank it will be after maintenace and some minor re-scape. The last full shot of the week before some changes is made...


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## unirdna

Congrats on your stellata recovery. It looks perfect now! 

I find it humorous that you take such good care of your Ceratophylum (hornwort). I can't bring myself to keep the plant because I'll spend the entire summmer removing tons of it from the boat propeller .

Your congos are huge :icon_eek:


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## PiecesofKenneth

ok.. to tell u the truth i just looked at the pictures.. and read a few posts but how much had it cost you so far?


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## medicineman

Please do not mind the algae scraper wrapped in cloth... it is the only save way to scrape. I have had some scratches on the outside, inflicted by the scraper and I have no idea how can it be done outside unlike inside where it is much more susecptible because you have fine dust and substrate to cause you a misfortunate accident.

@unidrna
Yea, those congos are sure full sized ones. Initially I have 8 of them, but 3 didnt make it through the first month. It is difficult for me to find similar sized congo in the market. I guess these big ones are wild caught as there are only tiny congos less than half the size on sale. I'm waiting towards Puntius, a big schooling species which is very nice to keep in aquascape.
Well I still have to keep some hornwort to keep balance in check, my tank is high light setup and hornwort help me (even though it is one of nitrate blaster that I have to dose nitrate every other day to keep it above 15ppm). Anyway hornwort is stil quite uncommon in the local market, and I hope they will be selling this stuff more frequently for newbies.

@piecesofkenneth
The cost of work and failures is more expensive than the cost of money that I have spent. I think this one tank cost me less than $1700 so far, that is including the tank set, all equipments and several total scapings I have done, plants, hardscapes, fish, fert, substrate, etc. Ah... the beauty of running planted tank right here with lots of DIY... I know it is so damn cheap by western/japan standard. 

If you speak of how expensive it is, I say this tank is quite expensive because I have failed many, many times using the black substrate and harder water and it cost much more than the money spent.

OK... it is time for me to do this tank a good job. Working time!


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## medicineman

Sneak peek of what new i have put inside..

Water lily. I'm going to find out which species. Just decided to try it out. Turns out looking good under water as well, perhaps I will train it to stay short (like tiger lotus).










Ludwigia inclinata, still in cuttings form. I have seen this stuff in full glory at a friend's.


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## dan888

Nice Update. Hope to see more progress.


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## medicineman

The aerial lily pad is growing so fast, shooting for the surface. I think it must have grown some 30cm in 2 days and I expect it to reach surface by tommorow morning.

I was a bit frustrated by furcata which is too much for me. Probably it needs even much softer water like 1kH and 2gH. So I replace them with another kind of cabomba. This time it is purple cabomba, complete with the flowers.










This is rotala wallichii I'm trying out. There was also rotala nansejhan in the shop and I did not take it, perhaps some other time. 










I've had enough of too much SAE in my tank. They are far too greedy at eating stuff (that is including munching some of the new tips). I will be trapping 2 of them out of the tank, leaving only three remaining, at least that will do less damage while still controlling algae. I'm also targetting one rainbow shark, so one is left inside.
Once I find some otto, surely there will be 2 SAE at most in this tank. The excess algae squad will go inside my other tanks/pond so nothing is wasted/thrown away. 
Boy... this is going to be a slow process. I should have reduced them while I can during the tear up (along with those excess CAE and guppies).


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## medicineman

The latest full shot, featuring some growth and some minor re-scape. Still a long way to go from a total scaping, I'm still in colectoritis dan trying out new stuff (and testing own made ferts).

photo taken on 4/17/2006










I'm waiting towards some puntius denisonii as a great addition into the tank. Fortunate enough I still can locate some for myself as it is a very difficult fish to get here (not to mention that the price is much, much higher than other tropical fish, something like 10-15x the price of a rainbow fish)


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## medicineman

*growing into a thick jungle*

It turns out that Ludwigia inclinata, the plant which is considered as very difficult to keep can be a noxious weed in my tank. It grew more than twice its original size in a week with lots of new leaves. I never thought such difficult plant can turn into a weed in optimum condition.

Those nuphar "lily" grows so fast that now there are 3 leaves that reached the surface. I plant it in a pot with soil and hopes that it can flower inside my tank.

At last... these Puntius deniisoni fell into my hands. Even though just five, it satisfy my need for the fish :icon_smil 
Note how big they are compared to the puny full size red nose.


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## unirdna

medicineman said:


> At last... these Puntius deniisoni fell into my hands.


Wow, you are one lucky guy. A local store gets them in once in a while, and they cost $50 a piece :icon_eek: . I have tried a local, alternative to Puntius deniisoni called the Southern redbelly dace, but the stream fish doesn't fair well in permanently warm water.

GREAT acquisition!


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## medicineman

Well Ted, I'm just in luck being the right guy with the right tank. Actually there has been many who have seen these last 5, and at merely $8 each but did not take them home because their tank is too small. These fish are quite big and they need lots of space to swim around.

All right.. update again on growth.

So far people have talked about how darn difficult it is to grow and keep Ludwigia inclinata healthy and beautiful, but no one ever told me of monster Ludwigia inclinata! Here it is : 










It was shorter than the bacopa on the right one week ago, yet is is already twice that size in a very short time 
That makes this plant appropriate only as background, even in extra large tank because of the alarming speed it grow. Perhaps it is just in my tank or what, or could it be something that I put in my own brew PMDD...

It is Ludwigia inclinata all right, just take a good look at the leaf close up pic


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## medicineman

These nuphar "lily" aerial leaves reach the surface at last. Perhaps it can flower sometime in the future...










I didnt know that purple cabomba (not furcata!) can turn blood red by the top, as shown here after one week of treatment in high light and nutrition.


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## Raul-7

Absolutely stunning! Well done! The plants look MUCH better than before. If you ever get bored of the Rummynoses try Penguin's instead, a large school of those slanted fish would look amazing in such a setup.


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## medicineman

Thanks Raul.

I find the plant condition to be much better than before (and ever), thanks to new substrate, balanced lighting dosing and enough fertilizer (that is including own brew PMDD). Sun light management for the last one week proved to reduce algae growth significantly, now that I allow the curtain up for 2 hours a day.

I think I'm not yet bored with these rummy nose yet, as I have found one secret to making them interesting and school as a whole, that is channeling all water current (and added powerhead) into one way, creating water movement for them to swim to. They form a pack to swim up the current, something like trying to reduce drag. Those Puntius deniisoni makes it even perfect, acting like giant red nose  

More pic update :

Rotala wallichii. Now this is the plant that I must have more! The condition differs from last week, now they turn very preety with pinkish colouring. This one definately going into my next shopping list.










Stellata after 8 days of relocation and root trimming (this plant grow such a massive rooting system), spacing out inbetween so each stem can grow well. No sign of rot/melt as feared by many when disturbing stellata.


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## A Hill

looks stunning! 

i never had luck with Rotala wallichii. it just really doesnt like algea eaters like pleco's and algea. it was doing GREAT then it died all the sudden...


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## dan888

Nice Update.


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## medicineman

Time to update that Ludwigia inclinata. After marking it as a monster weed, third week is not far from the name. It grew up to the surface, wich make it more than 70cm tall :icon_eek: 










As if I cannot believe that this plant is considered very difficult to grow. It is more like a weed. Dont know what it will grow into in another week, but I will patiently wait, so no trimming any soon.










What a luck... my weeds are static (except for that hornwort which require up to twice trimming sessions per week) while difficult plant grow like a weed.


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## medicineman

Well now almost a month later I find out that the plant does grow longer and longer for light, it simply bends and fill up the top space. Be aware that makes this stuff capable of growing more than 1,5 meter long with no problem at all.










Without realizing it, the taiwan moss is now looking great.










I think it is almost time for me to try other plants while changing those plants that are not coping well with the current condition. I guess you can never keep all kind of plants optimally under one same condition.


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## Steven_Chong

I've read at APC that ludwigia inclinata, if its requirements are met, grows much faster than other ludwigias, and can reach huge lengths. Obviously, the case here.  In other words, it's kind of a hit or miss plant maybe?

doesn't look like taiwan moss to me . . .


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## jeffboyarrdee

looks more like java moss


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## medicineman

Uh... I dont know exactly what kind of moss do I have here, but everyone locally call it taiwan moss (including the guy I bought it from). It does look somewhat different from local "java moss" (remember that I live on the island of java). 

I guess I'm in luck with inclinata, too much luck indeed :icon_lol: 

Did some minor pruning and replaced Metal Halide bulb with venture 6,500K - CRI 90. The now bulb looks so white and bright (old one was yellowish osram 5,200 K).


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## medicineman

Latest side shot









Turns out that relocating and hacking stellata will cause it to stress out and curl it new leaves. Like it did before, it grows out new stems from the sides of the top. Quite a weird plant.

I hack off those long inclinata and re plant them (having something in mind for later use, and I will need more of them). No problem as they get straight up again, however new buds from the hacked part does not re-appear so soon.

Like usually some plants does well and some does not. I'm willing to try again though, with pots and soil and see if high nutrition will help.

Algae growth has slowed down considerably, but the casualty is already there. SAE does not help good enough and I'm running out of otos around here. I guess I need serious help from 50-75 cherry/taiwan shrimps, so will open my eyes wide open for them in the market.


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## medicineman

Time for another good update, while still newly set up and a bit murky!  

So today I went for a visit to my favourite LFS center, but not much of good plants. But I did found something nice. It is said as the bark of a giant fern, it is woody, roundish like a huge pipe and has this nice looking holes which are created naturally from where the leaves branched out. So It strikes to my mind that this is the ultimate stuff to cover up my bulkhead overflow pipe.










Did some experiment on the inclinata. Mine looks quite skinny and not so dark red, so some goes into a pot with extra layer of fert and laterite at the bottom and we will see how good it is after 2-3 weeks.










What do you think? With some ferns and moss attached later on, it will be looking great.

I did some major replanting, relocating plants, hack and slash, throwing out some weeds and adding in some more. The treatment of moving the plants into a bucketfull of CAE works like charm, my plants are so clean right now. No excessive pesky CAE in my tank (well, there are merely 4 of them) so get them stay in the bucket.










I like the new look, even though I'm not finished yet and the plants are far from mature.

Tilting the light coloured substrate proves to be important as well. It looks so much better now that the greenish algae covered layer is mixed up (and will serve as fertilizer later on).


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## Planted punk

that looks better


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## shuks

I think so too


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## medicineman

More civilized look indeed, as I have figured out how each of the plant grow to be. The messy tank I had was worth it as a valuable lesson.

I try another shot growing Aponogeton crispus. So far no real luck as they eventually grow thin in the long run despite of given fert tabs. So I'm trying them on pots with laterite layer (the stuff proved great on nuphar japonica which leaves are 30% bigger).










I did the same to some of the amazon sword as well, while leaving some as is as a control group.

Still it puzzled me how well some plants like vallisneria react positively to simpler treatment. I have a bunch more behind inclinata and they will give a more balanced and contrast look when reaching maturity (still cant see while still stout).

A bit of detail (god.. I love these denisonii). I like hygro corymbosa compact and added in some more, still in emersed form and the plant will shed leaves quite soon, growing total submersed leaves within 3-4 weeks.


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## A Hill

lookin stunning as always....:eek5: 

-=- fish newb -=-


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## medicineman

A bit of close ups..

Left side










Right side










On the you can notice another piece of driftwood with fern added (actually it was lying vertically before and I happen to accidentaly knocked it over when doing potting. Turns out looking good, so it is re-arranged that way).


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## fresh_lynny

what a gorgeous transformation. Keep up the good work!


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## donaldbyrd

looking great.


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## medicineman

Things clear up and some minor tweaking, plants settle in slowly.










Not the best of me, my biggest problem is the colectoritis stage as currently I have too many kind of plants to blend in things nicely. This includes too many kind of fish. Perhaps I have to made up my mind by choosing one from two huge schools of rasbora or red nose, and give up red rainbow to another tank. The good thing is the tank is clean-looking and fresh right now, thanks to management and algae squad.

Some details :










1. Vallisneria gigantea 
2. Amannia gracilis 
3. Ludwigia inclinata 
4. Taiwan moss (driftwood, 2 pieces) 
5. Rotala macrandra 
6. Hygrophylla corymbosa var compact 
7. Rotala walichii 
8. Bacopa caroliana 
9. Anubias barteri var nana 
10. Tiger lotus 
11. Echinodorus amazon 
12. Microsorum pteropus mini 
13. Aponogeton crispus 
14. Microsorum pteropus var windelov 
15. Microsorum pteropus giant 
16. Blyxa japonica 
17. Cryotocoryne wendtii 
18. Rotala indica 
19. Pogostemon stellata 
- Bacopa monieri 
- Nuphar japonica 
- Hyrophylla poliserma 
- etc 

Fauna (approx):
- 6 congo tetra XL 
- 4 congo tetra S 
- 4 denisonii XL 
- 20-25 rasbora harlequin 
- 35-40 rasbora hengeli 
- 25-30 red nose tetra 
- 4 CAE S 
- 3 SAE M 
- 3 botia loach S 
- 3 bandit corydoras M 
- 2 bronze corydoras M 
- 2 red rainbow 
- 2 rainbow shark 
- 5 ghost shrimp 
- 40-50 cherry srimp


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## unirdna

What a gorgeous shot! I've been waiting for somthing like this . The eye is just sucked towards that java fern. You haven't sold me on the light substrate yet , but your aquascaping is looking great! The Rotala walichii is in a perfect place; covering the dark patch created by the java.

Great update, MM.


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## medicineman

The tank is looking much too linear to me, and the blend in is not that great. But the heck with that, just have fun and try new stuff until I got bored and really start something with concept and much lesser species.

Aponogeton crispus flowering. Maybe it will do just that in the future (hopefully) with richer media soil in pot.



















I manage to get some emersed tenellus and blyxa. Planted them right in the front and will update.


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## medicineman

If you see back 5-6 months time, you will see that this rainbow shark as a puny, dull coloured fish. It does grow into a fat bastard and showing off colours. Look at that pot belly! It does grow from algae alone I swear, timid during feeding time I suspect it solely live from algae so far.










I came across a strange looking albino congo and decided to take it home. It does have that glitter of a regular congo, plus it looks brighter. Too bad this one is a juvenille, a long way to go to go along the full size congos in the tank.


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## DrAzE03

WOW!!..never seen an albino congo before..... nice.


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## heavyD

*Rotala*

Wow, your tank and plants are stunning. I just read through the entire thread and I am in awe of someone having material and resources like that to work with and not the least to mention, the scale..... somewhere to have a tank of that magnitude. Well done and thank you for taking the effort to share your work. Just an idea, as much as you like the rotala wallichi, one of my favorites, you could really juice up the rotalas by adding a few different varieties like rotala sp. Vietnam, sp. hippuris, etc. Both have a very similar leaf structure to wallichi, but are different colors and have more of a dramatic look to them. I have stands of both in my tank and they add a bold look and compliment the wallichi as well. Anyway, I don't even know what kind of access you have to plants, but if you can find them, they are worth thinking about for a project like this. Like your expeirence with the ludwigia sp. Inclinata, they can and will under good conditions grow to the surface. You can see photos of them by looking in the plant finder on Aquarium Plant Central. Good luck. Darrell


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## medicineman

@headyD,
What can I say... I live in a tropica paradise (well... with the hazard also, if you are looking at the news how earthquake rocks Java). Plants are cultivated on the mountainside, fresh from nature which means there is no artificial lighting, no CO2, no fertilizing (just base fert = soil). They grow very well and grown in large quantity for local as well as export. Only those plants that are still rare (eg: tropica exotics) and those that are not yet imported or out of reach from the local farmers due to prices and availability are not yet mass-cultivated. There are literally many kinds of plants all year long, and sometimes can get seasonal (still can get them but sometimes difficult). All for a very, very low prices if you know what I mean.

@DrAzE03,
That is what dazzled me... so there are 4 of them in my tank now.


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## mrbelvedere

Medicineman.....I am loving that red tailed black shark....the ones I see are always crowded, disease ridden, and underfed...... I've never seen one in it's full glory.....awesome.


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## medicineman

@mrbelvedere

I guess that pig fish ate all the algae it can have all day long, I mean the tank got much algae until a squad of 5 CAE was introduced, then brown algae decline significantly to a level of managable growth.

Anyway I played with the scaping again, just a minor one. Still like to try several kinds of plants and studying them on how they grow in this particular tank. I mean every tank is different, not to mention this tank is the only one with different water source than the rest.

Trying out some glosso and tenellus as well. In 3-4 weeks the result will be seen and by then I can decide the next step, hopefully taking away 3-4 species.

klick for large image


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## attack11

your aquarium is very inspiring.


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## Ktulu_JL

medicineman,

I just caught back up on this thread. I absolutely love the pictures, there are great!

I might have missed it along the way, but:

How is your DIY chiller working out?
What does your current CO2 reactor setup look like? I know you had been moving it around, into the tank and into the sump, to try and get the CO2 levels up to par.
How much outgassing of CO2 do you think your sump is doing to your tank and what do you think your target and observed CO2 PPM is of lately?
Did you, or do you plan on sharing your most current pictures of the sump and eq area underneath the tank? I saw some MH ballast wires (maybe?) moved around up top. Did you have to change something recently that I missed?
Thanks so much for sharing!!


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## medicineman

Ktulu_JL said:


> medicineman,
> 
> I just caught back up on this thread. I absolutely love the pictures, there are great!
> 
> I might have missed it along the way, but:
> 
> How is your DIY chiller working out?
> What does your current CO2 reactor setup look like? I know you had been moving it around, into the tank and into the sump, to try and get the CO2 levels up to par.
> How much outgassing of CO2 do you think your sump is doing to your tank and what do you think your target and observed CO2 PPM is of lately?
> Did you, or do you plan on sharing your most current pictures of the sump and eq area underneath the tank? I saw some MH ballast wires (maybe?) moved around up top. Did you have to change something recently that I missed?
> Thanks so much for sharing!!


Glad you like it. You can also look at the similar sister tank
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/p...emans-260-gal-open-top-tank-5.html#post273677

The DIY chiller works just fine, but I find it to be way too small for the tank. It is more suited for 100 gal, for I find such cooling way works best when utilizing 1W for each liter of water. Another thing is one should only use non degradable evaporator in contact with water, such as titanium ones. Other metals does not work safely in the long run. Iron based ones will corrode, aluminium will oxidize and copper is not too safe for inhabitants. I will be looking for titanium evap, better still if I can salvage to save $$. The next project in mind is 1 hp air conditioner machine with a titanium evap, that will do the cooling fast enough while working for merely 5-10 minutes every hour. The AC machine is cheap enough, around $150-200 for 1-1.5 hp and I just have to set it to a titanium evap, hook it to a control mechanism, probably a timer or a thermostat. This is the only way I know of cooling extra large tanks out there. The total should be extra cheap below $300 which (I think) no chiller in the market can match in terms of price, durability, eficiency and cooling power. Just think of any other way to cool those 1000gal+ tanks! The only downside is obvious. AC machine is bulky and needs to be placed outside, just like your home AC system.

My CO2 reactor is back to the top, blown by a powerhead. It does look a bit ugly, but I try to hide it. Perhaps one of these days I should consider making a huge reactor from 1.5" pipe and put it in the cabinet, thus making the tank cleaner. For outgassing, I can tell it cannot be that bad from gut feeling. I have no special pH test kit and there is no way for me to pinpoint the reading with regular pH kit which reads every one digit (5,6,7,8). This tank actually needs two CO2 outflows for good, but one still do it well enough, and it can be observed from daily pearling. I use lots of CO2 somewhere 6-7 bps (note that the bubbles are extra large, if you put it in a commercial counter it could be some 12-14 bps) to the limit of my reactor can deal before it gets choked. I cannot go further than that because of it, and my fish are all OK with that. Occacionaly I can find some micro bubbles of CO2 flying around (could have mistaken it with O2 though).


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## A Hill

wow the tank is still stunning! you make me want to get a rainbow shark like that... but my tank is probably too small he will look out of place. 

also lovin the albino congos those are sweet

good luck with the tank!

- fish newb -


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## Ktulu_JL

> Glad you like it. You can also look at the similar sister tank
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ph...tml#post273677 (Medicineman's 260 gal open top tank #1 (56k warning) update 06/04/06)


Don't worry, I watch your two big tank threads like a hawk! Thanks so much for providing updates to your CO2 and chiller setup!


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## Architect1

Nice I like the up dates, beautiful tank, your red tail shark is really huge, hes been eating well. beautiful tank yet again.


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## medicineman

Time for a growth in update on the tank.

Another current full shot










The tennelus are almost finished in changing from emmersed form with lots of submersed form runners.

The overal growth has been quite rampant, I have harvested almost 3 cups of moss and cut around a foot of vallisneria leaves. I still cannot believe that in such tank plants can grow that quick. If you compare the full shot to the last one on 06/05 which is less than three weeks ago.. just wow. Those ammania gracilis will require another bottom trimming. Those bacopa become long and almost messy again. Cannot believe it they grow more just from home made fert brew addition to the tank  

Enjoy the close ups! click for huge pics.


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## unirdna

Now this I like! Great scape. Open space and a simpler layout. The "echo" on the left add very nice balance. Keep on top of those "running" plants roud:.


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## TheOtherGeoff

looks great man! possibly one of the best yet


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## tom855

You are an inspiration to my collectoritus. 

I was also interested in your comments about your SAEs eating your plants. I HAD two of them that just took my Rotalia Walechi and L. Aromatica down to the stems. I hadn't seen any other postings talking about thier habit of destroying certain plants.

Again, thanks for sharing the pix!


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## medicineman

Yeah guys, I have to learn to keep it tidy and less messy after I'm learning all I want from plants in the tank. Some less species and a more dominant groups will certainly help. I kinda like the terracing style, perhaps will even learn to go for nature scenery sometime.

@tom855, You will know the hard way how evil SAEs are. The little fellow are useful for a limited time just say 4-5 months in a well fed tank (underfed and smaller tanks can keep SAE small for almost a year as I observed), and the bigger ones must go into a hard plant only tank or face the consequences. I have lost many leaves and dying plants just because of the fish. For the similar limited time, I'd rather go for CAE because they are cleaner in the act. The end is still the same, you have to get rid of it to a hard leaved tank. Ottos and shrimps are still the saviours for long term and they are permanent till death.

A close up on rotala indica. The plant is quite old already in my tank, one of the thrifing kind, gone through several topping sessions.



I did tried some potamogeton and here how it turns to be after several weeks... looks a bit like skinny bamboo effect.










The stuff easily reaches the surface just like jungle val










You can sees some jungle vals top as well. Watch for the flat tips that I cut off to keep them short. It is just a normal way to trim jungle vals, you just have to keep them healthy and there will be no problem as they grow back.


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa

It's looking really nice. I especially love the vals, stunning!


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## medicineman

StUk_In_AfRiKa said:


> It's looking really nice. I especially love the vals, stunning!


Yea.. my vals are growing crazy, reaching some 6 feet long if left unchecked. They grow fast with runners and thick dark green leaves despite of what folks say about needing hard water do grow it good. The tank is still running kH3 and gH4 straight from the city tap water.


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## fresh_lynny

BEAUTIMOUS!
I love the fauna as well.
Very peaceful and cohesive scape.


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## medicineman

Tank full shot a month later...

I did almost no radical changes as the plants remains exactly where they were planted. Heavy trimming sessions were done several times during the period, especially cutting off valls for 3-4 times and the amanias grew to the surface were cut down to half tank size (and you can see it bounced back to full height in no time  ). The tennelus spread well and it start to take over the open ground as expected. I'm kinda busy lately, but still able to maintain the tank as is. The wooden tower on the right is taking shape with moss and ferns taking their places, filling up the structure. Now it is a really nice leavy camuflage for the return line pipe.

And I thought that I have killed the last of that water sprite early this year, but see what happens as it reanimate from remaining bits! 

With a whole project going on, a re-scape is still not possible in near future. I guess it is time to enjoy everything growing nice and big, cutting as necessary


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## dan888

Very nice update.


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa

Wow it's amazing how much better the tank looks after some growth! Keep up the good work!


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## medicineman

Yeah, sometimes you just have to give the plants enough time to overgrow before they look nice and bushy and leave them be before started pruning any.

The CO2 reactor is still up there inside the tank. This time I hide it behind the tower of cammuflage on the right, further enhanced by ferns and moss growing on it. Now there are less of those un-natural objects in the tank  

A very strange but interesting thing I found is how the cherry shrimp lives within the system. Pregnant females would end up through the bulk overflow pipe down to the filter tank below. There they hatch their young and what puzzled me is that those shrimps that are big enough in size could do the journey up the pipe back to the main tank. That is climbing through a vertical wall of strong water current, more like a waterfall which is some 3-4 feet high!


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## Y0uH0

Really very nice growth,it's amazing that u went without a background. The val background looks really neat.If i were you,i'd just leave the tank in it's current scape because i am already so impressed by it's look.Great job!


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## the_noobinator

that's amazing, so the cherry shrimp mothers go to the filter tank to hatch their young and then come back to the main tank? how do the little ones get back to the main tank? just eat until they're big enough and then make the climb themselves?


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## medicineman

Uh yeah, it appears so. Sometimes there are more shrimps by the filter, less shrimp by the tank and sometimes they just dissapear vice versa. This also happens very clearly in my 20 gallon tank with a built in overflow filter where I witnessed the shrimps to me migrating to and from the filter chamber, with the smaller shrimps tends to stay at the filter. They gone through narrow channels with strong current, and it is pretty obvious because I can see them doing so. I started with 15 shrimps and end up with some 30-40ish almost two months later.


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## fresh_lynny

MM it is looking great!
I wouldn't change a thing. Everyone looks happy and healthy, and the scape is very pleasing.


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## medicineman

Thanks for the support on the current shape! I will keep it mainly the same until I go bored with the scape, perhaps doing a bit of changes in the process.

Another thing I find about java fern. These ferns are the kind which grow very big that it increased more than four times its original clump size. They not only go well in a low-medium light but do thrife in very high light quite well, as shown here. That is the position for couple of months, directly under Metal halide ray. The leaves (esp the young ones) turned reddish from the tips, despite of its non-red microsorum origins.


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## the_noobinator

it's my theory that you don't need a background if you have healthy plant growth and a good scape, and you're proving that.


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## medicineman

Yup, plant background does very well as a background  

Nothing much new (only a bunch of new plant), just testing 77mm lens and making a big poster of the current tank.



Thans for the support on current scape, I will maintain it as is, or at most will do some minor changes only as neccesary.


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## TheOtherGeoff

still looking very nice


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## medicineman

Not so good news for now on the overal condition which degrades slightly for the last one month.

Lower plants are suffering from shedding of leaves (esp higro compacta) and turing bald. I pulled one vallisneria by the edge of the tank to find its roots are partially black - a bad sign of substrate problem.

Right now I'm trying to adjust several parameters. I highly suspect that anaerobic substrate is to blame as the ultimate cause, second is perhaps the lack of light (I did reduce the lighting period for 1 hour) for prolonged time. For now all I can do is increasing photoperiod by 1,5 hour, wait for some time and see the reaction. I will also do heavy vaccuming of the substrate by using stronger suction power over longer time per each area plus disturbing the substrate to tilt the lower part free from too much debris and possible deposits of anaerobic stuff (pyrite, sulfur and iron compounds).


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## unirdna

Bummer, MM. Black roots on vals? Very bad sign since that plant can handle just about any substrate you throw at it. Also, vals can get by with little to no light. I KNOW my substrate is somewhat anerorbic, yet my plants do quite well in it. I think that healthy plants "aerob" the area around their roots. This info leads me to think that you're problem may start at the top, not the bottom.

Best of luck to you.


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## medicineman

@unirdna,

You might be right... problem may come from other than substrate (people use the same substrate as mine for years without tearing up/reconditioning). I have to check several changes I did for the last 1-2 months that has something to do with blackened roots and bald leaves and restore the things used to be. My guess would be lighting issue or water distribution and movement issue.

- Lighting : reduced a tad bit (not a serious issue because I see that many other plants can handle it well). I'm going to increase photoperiod to prior plus a bonus of 1/2 hour and observe closely how algae reacts to this.
- Water distribution : changed the position of reactor output to the back of the tank. There are tall plants by the back, not to mention barricade of overgrown ferns, moss and vals which blocks the flow. The tank has also somewhat has a dead spot of water flow ever since plants grown too big. Java fern somewhat blocked the filter outflow water, long val leaves also did the same as well to the returning surface scum. STAGNANT could be the issue. The problem eased a bit by pruning some older leaves of the fern (but still they are just too big) and heavy shortening of val leaves. I'm also going to change the reactor output to the front of the tank where no bigger plants could block the flow. Further carefull picking of top fern leaves will also result in better filter outflow rate, so I'm not going to be easy anymore on the peak java fern.


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## Betowess

Wow, I just looked at the picture and its so clear! How big/long are those Conga Tetras? Would a few extra powerheads help the flow abit as well as some trimming? Good luck! You always keep some beautiful and BIG tanks, MM!


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## the_noobinator

i'm pretty worried that the lower level melting will happen on my tank since it's a tall one and planted heavily.


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## medicineman

@noobinator, 
The melting only started rescently with lighting not as the main cause (MH over here and dont forget I did supplement some sunlight). Some plants would not get bald by the bottom at all even though light is not at high level, for instance higro compacta (proved in my medium light tank) which grow out lots of new leaves from the sides and lower part. That is the problem here, even such plant is going bald.

@betowess,
Thanks. The congos are full sized ones, as large as congos can reach (they remained almost the same ever since I got them). The white small ones are albino congo (check few previous pages for close ups on fish). 
Adding powerhead would certainly help.... and I have to go to LFS to get another one. But before doing so, positioning of reactor outflow I'd say is more important. Blocked (barricade of plants) CO2 outflow will cause CO2 to travel short distances while not helping extra water movement. 

Did some necessary trimming on the top plants (ferns).
I repositioned CO2 powerhead and outflow to the open space by the front (it does look ugly but time will tell if that works well and by then I will think of some way to make it pretty). Already it looks as if this is working, slight CO2 haze traveled to the other end of the tank, promising more even distribution. An additional small powerhead would certainly help if installed in the other side of the tank to push the water surrounding the dense val area.
Lastly photoperiod is added for 1.5 hours.


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## guitardude9187

dumb question but i wsa wondering are u planning of telling us the secret fomula of ur fert?


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## deeplove

Then it wouldn't be so secret.


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## medicineman

> i was wondering are u planning of telling us the secret fomula of ur fert?





> Then it wouldn't be so secret


What so secret about the formula? you mean the PMDD which I use in all my tanks? Well perhaps I must keep the details secret for now in case I decided to market it one day (dreaming.....)  

I made it out of my concern of fertilizing my two big tanks which can get expensive over time.

Lol... actually it might be simple enough for some of you chemistry/pharmacy geeks. I got my basic guideline from Tropica's TMG content (see the back of the product) and doing a bit of reverse analysis. After enough reading from several literatures and websites, I get the ingredients from chemical suppliers (hydroponics are quite rare around here). Then try to re-make TMG composition with modifications in own formula and methods of compounding that I learned. I tried many times to find the correct ways and mix using several chelators and other excepients.

Testing includes but not limited to toxicity (short and medium term), product clarity, solubility (clearness when dissolved in water) and trial to planted tank.
After several trial of error and field testing (which takes some time to see the result because 3 tanks are all I have), I stick to one mix which result is somewhat satisfactionary. 

There are still some minor flaws such as minute salting out after several months of opening seal, slow gradual decrease in stability after opening sealed container, microorganism growing inside the container. That could be fixed over time should I have more time to access lab and if have more tanks to test on.

The rightmost is some 2 months since seal was broken. It turned darker slowly because I suspect too much preservatives were used. Microorganism is not fould there, just a bit of deposit from minor de-stabilisation. The center is around 1 month old since the seal was broken. It remained lighter as preservatives is considerably less but with some microorganism growing inside. Both bottles are 1 liter and were filled and sealed around 3 months ago. 









This is how the product looks in dosing vial (I use one of the test kit tubes). Yellowish green and almost crystal clear.


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## hughitt1

thats very nice. out of curiosity- how much time do you spend on the tank on an average day?


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## medicineman

Weekly WC maintenance takes around 2 passive hours for all the tanks, that is because it takes some time for water to drain/fill through hoses (should start thinking of making automated system or get bigger hoses). On average day I'd spend several minutes just meeting all my tanks, never missing a chance because there always be a good reason such as feeding, fertilizing. That makes time spent each day at least for 5-10 minutes at all tanks. Then every several days inbetween WC the bigger tanks needs to me topped off using a bucket of water and perhaps using net to catch floating leaves which are not sucked through the overflow, that would cost extra minutes.

If you are talking about time spent enjoying the tank (not doing any maintenance) which include feeding (it is everyone's favourite session), sometimes the time gets much more because Its still quite hard not to enjoy plain looking at healthy tanks (just re-scape when you cant take it any more).

People should just go for automated WC system should they want bigger and multiple tanks in their hands and make their lives much easier. However automated dosing and feeding by my view are not necessary (except for the times when you are not around for several days) since you tend to lose quality time with the tank/scape/fish.


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## Petrus

I find the greenish appearance of your solution quite odd. Normally trace solutions are brownish due to the iron. Are you using a different chelating agent that's not EDTA or DTPA? Since these are the typical chelators, just wondering if you found these to be inferior to the ones you're using? Thanks!


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## medicineman

I


> find the greenish appearance of your solution quite odd


I'm not alone with green clear solution out there. There is a european product called ferropol made by JBL, and it is also a liquid fertilizer product which colour is green and is very clear. I did tried several chelating agents that I can reach my hands on retails and I ended up with this one because back then it was the only one which stays clear for a very long time in series of test tubes on accelerated stability simulation. Stable enough in fact after several months in stays that way with no sign of salting out or sedimentation.


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## medicineman

Back to the tank...

I did major vaccuming last friday, taking extra time and depth (almost half the substrate height). The substrate turns out to be saturated with mulm and sediment. I cant believe that it is so filthy just by skipping vaccuming for 2-3 months :icon_eek: . Could have been the bio load and accumulation of other things such as blocked waterway, blocked current from reactor, lack of vaccuming, position (the tank is outdoor and gets more dust than most tanks), etc. BGA is also noticed by the substrate edges, and the stuff is also cleaned by suction, the rest are now treated using erythromicin tablets and started to dissapear gradually. It is surprising on how clean the substrate became after a single vaccuming session that I get new white substrate feeling back in no time, and it is more full and loose as well from de-compaction.

The sump filter material is no different, and it is quite hard not to kill or wash away any cherry shrimp that hich on the floss (it is their breeding ground and I think there are more than 100 inside the filter alone) so casualties is expected.

Another thing to learn, I'd like to warn one more time to those of you who want to follow my footstep of using DIY chiller. Make sure you use titanium evaporator! The tank's problem could be contributed from my DIY chiller system as well. I use cheapo regular evaporator which is made of steel, aluminium and copper. Of course I wrapped it up in plastic to avoid direct contact with tank water. Unfortunately the evaporator material gets oxidized over time and they dissolve into water and to make things worse the plastic wrapping leaks without my knowledge (the rest you can guess... metal poisoning - remember scooley case). I cleaned the deposit and oxidized material and get a double plastic liner to make sure nothing leaks for a short time while I'll be on the lookout for titanium evaporator.

Now, several days later I can see the difference right away in water quality. It has been some time since I had a crystal clear tank in weeks :icon_roll ... all the cleaning worth it. It is still too early to say that it solved all problems, time will tell if the plants can get back to the former glory.

For now there are still some missed spots to vaccum, and this weekend I'll make sure to take care of them (and perhaps go shopping to fill/replace the bald spots).


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## medicineman

The anaerobic condition does not only take effect on the plants but some fish as well. After taking a good count, I figure I have lost several during the "bad period". Most are tiny rasboras and unfortunately some I failed to collect the body. The last one is a big red rainbow suffering from unknown ilness plus it has a form of fungi infection by the fin. A prove how stagnantcy and layer of mulm could do nasty thing to a tank. The good thing is now I have a more balanced bio load (even though before that the tank is far from overcrowding) thanks to natural selection survival of the strongest.

I did another vaccuming session yesterday, cleaning spots that I missed; behind, by the corners, inbetween plants and under smaller driftwood. These spots are filthy :icon_eek: .... for sure it will take several vaccuming session to clean up well enough. 

The water clears quickly thanks to lesser debris in the tank and improved filtration efficiency (cleaned media and restored water flow).



(I know after looking at the pic you will want to say that the tank looks OK but actually it is not)
You can see very well that some spots are bald, notably hygro compacta, tennelus, rotala wallichi. The background val also fell victim but they still thrife (I'll pull them out, vaccum the ground and re-plant if necessary). My moss looks crappy from thread algae and needs to be re-done (even though it looks kinda neat with algae on). 

I guess this means a good excuse for shopping and minor re-scape!


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## TheOtherGeoff

i would still be happy to call it my own or sit and watch it for hours.


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## medicineman

*teaser pic*

@TheOtherGeoff,
I like it better now than a few weeks before, but still things are not right and needs to be repaired.

This weekend I had the time to shop a bit and do some work on the tank. Too bad because the water is so clear just now and I had to tear things up  After throwing away some plants, trimming (nothing better than harvesting several cups of moss), relocating and planting new plants the tank became very murky. I failed to get several kinds of plants in mind because around here plants are selling by the season, so I decided to use whatever available.



Guess I need to vaccum the tank again in a week of two as stuff (fine mulm, dust, etc) will settle down and clog up the substrate again over time if nothing is done to remove them.

I will give out more details in two or three days after the water is crysal clear again. The hardscape remains almost the same (too big to move around) but with minor repositioning. The whole scape features more open space and wider foreground now, plenty for new growth.


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## medicineman

And so a day later it gets quite clear to reveal what is behind the cloud.

I did get rid of those bacopa by the lower right part and all of the tennelus (they are too crappy from damage). The whole hardscape sifted a bit to the back, allowing a bit more open space by the front (I use the shaded part for anubias). It seems that I have to re-work some ferns and moss as they are already coming loose and thick.










Rejunevation on rotala waliichi. Now I know the secret behind of these fat from average rotalas on sale, simple enough they are grown on shallows with rich soil and constant slow water current. 








And so a part of the plant would form emmersed growth which is very sturdy and free of algae which upon harvesting they simply soak in aquarium for a week or so to transform.

The left part is re-planted with classic echinodorus bleheri (most are actually originated from this tank, you just unable to see it this far because of the placement which is out of camera view). 










Foreground is partially stuffed with dwarf sag (which is shown still in very short emmersed form).

The open space from this spot continued to the front left and ends up to the front right allows fresh effect and ample space for schooling fish.

Any idea or input you have to improve the look of the tank is highly welcome because such job (aquascaping) is neverending


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## Y0uH0

Your plants are always so healthy and that really adds on to the "wow" factor which the scape has created. Very beautiful.


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## TheOtherGeoff

still looks great! hows tank #1 doing? havent heard anything on it in a long time


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## fresh_lynny

mm nice job. healthy and clean and your inhabitants look happy.


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## medicineman

@Y0uH0,
Thanks. The supplies also contributed to this that almost any batch I get are good ones.

@TheOtherGeoff,
The other tank #1 is not in a good shape in fact in its worst condition so far. The problem is quite different though, sice it is located indoor and has minimal bio load. It is because I ran out of CO2 when I was away for a week or so. After that some business to take care of so this one was quite neglected and taken its toll. Now with CO2 on the refill, I'm still waiting for a one whole day free time to do tear up, vaccuming and re-stocking with some fresh plants (hopefully next week). I ought to have a small spare CO2 tank for times like this.

@fresh_newby,
Yes, the cleaning (vaccuming) when doing WC is worth it. I should do it more often (once a month) just to make sure. MTS would help a lot and still looking for them to take home.


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## the_noobinator

your tank and from what i can see of your house look amazing!


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## medicineman

> your tank and from what i can see of your house look amazing!


Heheh... just a lucky man (hiding something of huge surprise under the sleeve).

Anyway no update pic for now (saving for growth pic next week or so).

Still battling the pesky green thread algae. Sure they look OK and some might say it look neat and want some but they must not be there because they are choking plants (especially the fine one like moss, rotalas, milfoils, etc). No matter how I tried to reduce N and P to a lower level (never attemt to crash!)and trim the algae, it always grow back faster than the plants. To make things worse it loves CO2 and nutrition as well, just like plants :icon_eek: 

Perhaps a good drastic measure is to tear up all the moss I have (mainly they stick with moss) and re-did all the moss decor using thin layers of fresh moss I harvested earlier (now algae free).


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## medicineman

Got myself a huge clump of blyxa from outtown trip. I collected this one from a pristine clear shallow stream. Some locals would have fun and wash/bathe along the stream (bonus spectacle as such scene is non existent in cities). There are more of these where it comes from and I did collected some specimens for my tank.

Check out the size! (as big as a bucket)










So it went inside the tank. I use a pot, fill it with special potting soil mix (coco peat and burned husk) and top it off with gravel. The origin stream is very bright, so I placed the plant right under MH light with two bricks support to make it a bit high.










And here is a kind of echinodorus species that I collected from the same stream.


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## unirdna

Great post, MM!! Any chance you saved any of the water from the stream where you found the Blyxa (for testing)? I would love to know the conditions in which it was growing naturally.


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## Nightshop

Wow, I wish I could go out and find native plants like that for my aquarium!

Hope it adapts well to your aquarium.


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## medicineman

@unirdna, 
Unfortunately I was *stupid* enough not to fill a mineral water container bottle with the water from that stream... :redface: . The plants were collected in plastic bags and go straight to car fridge for safe cold storage. I did not go all the way out town just to collect plants, it just happens I have a family member who knows the area from experience and suggested that we should stop at one of the stream on the way back home because he knows that I play aquatic plant.
BUT not to worry, a friend of mine (a kind of botanical person) tested a river where blyxa can be found (borneo) and it tends to be soft water flowing river, dkH is less than 2. Both the stream and that river are very brightly lit, so the plants loves high light.

Thinking of it, I should prepare a way of collecting some substrate from such river/stream on next trip. The stuff could be ADA soil substitute for me, undoubtly better than my current using of silica substrate.

@Nightstop,
I hope so... my dkH is 3-4 and dgH 4-5 which is slightly harder than the condition from where the plant comes from. It is just too expensive to get RO system running locally (no cheap RO system like in USA) so I can mix and soften water.


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## medicineman

Huge poster of lastest setup!

Featuring growth and changes, going to maturity and hopefully thread algae will not grow uncontrollable again.

-The new plants (wild harvested blyxa and echinodorus)
-Re-did moss thinly (harvested a bucket of them) 
-Some plant growth

Sorry for the big pic. 
I like to take shots of tanks and honing photo skill.
Pic taken with nikon D70s using f 2.8 80-200 nikkor 77mm lens
Enjoy!


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## fresh_lynny

looks fabulous MM! I love the texture the extra large Blyxa and the new sword adds. WOW....great depth. Love it! I bet your fish appreciate the mansion they live in~


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## the_noobinator

big score on that natural blyxa. hope the bathers weren't offended that you were yanking plants out of their stream ha!


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## Y0uH0

I simply love your scape. Very nice balance on the use of colours. Large species collection of plants yet it is not the least bit messy. Simply beautiful.


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## medicineman

I've had enough of internal tiny bity wee CO2 reactor. The thing is just measuring around 11" and less than 2" in diameter. Sometimes it gets choked out, it spits out bubbles of CO2 despite strong powerhead I use. The reactor with powerhead needs to be camuflaged also, because they look a bit ugly inside the main tank. Really, it is undercapacity to serve such big tank.

So I went to a local building material shop and bought some items to assemble the big gun. 4" in diameter of pipe cannot be wrong  










It measures 60cm tall and fits nicely inside the tank's cabinet.
I'm not giving details on parts and how to make this reactor because this is already been discussed over and over again in DIY section (unless you asked me so)










The big buldge will be able to retain large amount of CO2 without letting it got away. Reactor diameter and length will make sure of enough mixing space. A dedicated powerhead serve as strong water source. Without disturbing the main pump at all, I can maintain good flow within the main tank.

Since I have a big sump under the tank, there is a difference in installation from the average DIY external reactor. The main pipe to the "T" section is not glued, so it can be broken apart into 2 sections for cleaning. You cannot do this in true external reactor because sometimes you will be out of luck when the unglued part leaks and wet your house :icon_eek: . I simply place the reactor inside my big sump, so hairline leaks are no problem at all and I can be sleep well enough knowing that there is no way the reactor leaks water (even if it breaks apart) and wet the house


----------



## plantbrain

It would be wise to place the outflow from this reactor into the suction side of the return pump from the sump.

If you can get a needle valve(or 2 or 3) and make a Tee so you can add another CO2 line, I'd do so.

From there adding a disc inside the tank near the return's outflow will give you both the mist and the reactor options to get enough CO2 into the tank.

A combo of both will help and allow you the flexibility to control the CO2 in 2 different manners.

Yes, the little dinky 2x11 will not do!!

The Rhinox disc diffusers Mike sells from Aquaticmagic are nice and dirt cheap.
So far they are entirely comparable to the ADA Beetle series except 4-5x the cost. They do not have CO2 line holders and the choice or grey/clear suction cups and pretty ADa box, but they come with a similar black suction cup.

I think adding one of those below the outflow would be ideal in conjuction.
Would not cost much, maybe 20$ and 20$ for the valve shipped.

Scape wise, running a longer row of the red plants on the left towrds the back might be useful. Rather than bunching them up, try extending them back towards the corner gradually up towards the top and increasing the grouping towards the rear.

Consider removing ther water sprite on the right.
It's a weed and needs a lot of tending.
Maybe more Bylxa running towards the rear corner? That would open up that space and make it more oragnized.
Think about easier plants that just needed topped to beat them back or no trimming at all in that spot.


If the vals get too weedy, try Cyrpt balansae in place, they get about as tall as the tank unlike those vals!

You can make such changes slowly over time.
If you are ambitious, use some long flat pieces of driftwood and make a border between the foreground plant(E tennellus? or a Sag?) and make a terrace. Attach Xmas moss to the wood.

Think about these ideas and see what you think.
Try them out and sit and think about what might help make the tank easier to maintain over time and what might improve to the look in your eyes.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## medicineman

Tom, thanks for dropping by and giving valuable comment on the tank.

Replacing the relatively tiny reactor with a much bigger external reactor instantly proves to be a wise step. It work well with no visible bubble gurgling from the outflow of the reactor, even if I give more CO2 than the usual amount. I can eliminate CO2 factor should anything goes wrong in the future.... because now I definately got more than enough ppm at disposal.

Micro bubbler via disc (or something similar to ceramic diffuser) by the tank outflow? That would give much more CO2 into the tank. Just a tee and a needle valve to split the CO2 line would be easy and cheap to find. However I must try this out first by testing using the exsisting old line to a ceramic diffuser and blow it using tank outflow. A tank that is too bubbly is not too great for my taste :icon_roll 

I kinda sceptic for our local balansae... sometimes it gets too demanding to grow without obvious reason. But I might try out a piece or two and see if it can grow well enough (back to colectoritis mode  ). Learning from practice is priceless.

I also kinda have problem with blyxa (definately not japonica because the thing is huge). Dont know what is wrong, but the huge bunch I got from a river is thinning out. I suspect CO2 and water hardness play the main role.

Thinking of your ideas and love it. I also consider making island effect. Terrace? That gives me an idea of a balinese rice terrace (also called subak) at Ubud, Bali. I've done terracing once in my 20 gal and it does look nice. I will wait until the tank is boring and already too much for me, then tear it apart for something fresh. A new scenery will be great! Speaking of which.... I plan to tear apart the sister tank. It is already too messy from neglect and no CO2 for several weeks (technical problems). I make sure I fix the hardware and then rescape with something fresh and lower maintenance.


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## medicineman

The echinodorus-lookalike turns out not to be echindorus at all. It belongs to the family of ottelia, not so common plant used internationally. After growing for some time, it unexpecedly reaches super size and shoots out 4 flower stalks, all petalae are eaten by fish once they started to bloom when just about reaching surface  ... so no chance to see them for myself. 










close up on the flower stalk









The overall condition of the tank improves eversince I swap the rector into much bigger capacity, allowing more CO2 (improving efficiency) in the tank. Even though I still got clado and BBA to battle (the thread algae was long defeated by ripping out my moss and re-did them all), some plants decided that the condition is getting right for them. I thought I've lost/thrown away this weed last year, suddenly it appeared out of nowhere, looking good.










That goes the same for other plants. This bacopa gained enough energy and growth to finally climb up to escape water (which is 85cm+  )










Hopefully things will get better and better as I cannot afford to tear up the tank again. Backbreaking and need lots of free time to do that (and yet I havent been able to tear up the other really messy tank :icon_sad.


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## Subotaj

please more photos!


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## andbigdaddy2

all i can say is wow the tank is amazing and so is the house.


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## A Hill

medicineman said:


> -Re-did moss thinly *(harvested a bucket of them) *
> 
> ne2/DSC_4798.jpg[/IMG]


could you PLEASE take some photos of the moss, its a (SMALL) obsession of mine and i love seeing what other people collect:icon_excl 

tank is lookin great!

- Fish newb


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## medicineman

More CO2 with enough light equals to more fuel burned and increased growth. Lately I dose more nitrate and just started liquid phosphoric acid within a week, the tank is burning more fuel that nitrate level remains under 15 ppm despite slightly increased dosing. Already I can see my amania, as never before turning a bit greenish from the usual reddish. Shows a positive thing, but not too desireable by most aquarist who prefer reds from "deficiency". It is very apparent on most fast growers. To back it up, I even prepared a new batch of 2 liter of my own brew micro PMDD just in case I need to double the dose as well.

Here is the tank in one of its gloomy day. For comparison of how it will turn out later (I strongly believe a lot better).


@Subotaj,
More coming up later. Let the tank grow some more (and I will hack them down). Lately the condition is getting alot better from steep decline some time ago.

@andbigdaddy2,
Thanks 

@Fish Newb,
If you like harvest photo so much, that is too bad also because some time ago I've just thrown away about 2-3lb of ceratopteris out of my tank (yet leaving a lot more remaining in the tank). The plant is everywhere, growing from the bottom up over the water surface. Some even broke loose and form huge floating colony. No good, they are choking the tank so off they go inside my koi pond :icon_twis . The fish loves it that they finish it to the stems.

Too bad I didnt shot the whole mass of moss that day. Already sold some and I even throw away bits into my pond filter, letting the moss grow itself to fate (and later I found some cherry shrimp... perhaps in months I'll have cherry harvest as well )
But I have some a pic to show the idea. What you see here is around a quarter of what I ripped out. It is pure moss ball to the inside, growing on nothing.









Speaking about harvesting moss, I think I have to re-do my tower of moss and fern, some spots are already very thick and started to get thread/string algae infestation. This always happen when I let any spot of moss in the tank getting too thick for too long. Soon it will be time to rip it up and tied it again in very thin layer. It works for me very well to defeat string algae and it still puzzles me of that kinda like symbiotic relationship between algae and moss.


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## medicineman

I just left my tank for a week for out of country trip. Today I got back to find my tank... holy cow.... everything looks like they've exploded (in a good way of course). I say this because 3 days prior to leaving the tank, I did a good hack job to some of the plants. Now in short time the tank is overgrown again.

This time I pre-dose each fert in single bottle and ask people at home to pour it in according to my given schedule. That goes in with double dose of my green PMDD solution. Something different I did for the last 2 weeks is switching production made phosphate fertilizer to strong phosphoric acid (warning : this stuff is highly corrosive and should be handled with extra care), 5 pipette drops every 2-3 days. It looks like the original phosphoric acid stuff is the real deal with enough P to boost overall growth of current setup and fert dosing (that includes enough CO2). I guess you cannot rely 100% anymore to gardening products judging from this case.

Lets take a good look tommorow when the light is on. The tank is bouncing back for sure, perhaps at better rate than ever :icon_smil


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## medicineman

Here you go. Not the best detailed pic, now you cannot see the fish but with different style of photography. Keep in mind that most plants are constantly under trimming. Take a look at the improved quality and size of the hygro compacta, biggest I've achieved in the tank so far. Rotala walichii also thrife well, reaching quite high. Those vals bounced back and took over the surface again. I got 4 anubias flowers at once.. not a common sight. Those ottelia flower stalks burst out and now I'm left with 3 unburst stems. Dwarf sag fills in nicely, I hope they dont grow too big. Soon enough I need to trim (again within less than 2 weeks apart) some of the weeds. Need to keep keep check especialy those vals and water sprite of else they'll create too much shadow.










Pesky clado and BBA are still there, but not as a real threat. I'm going for manual removal later and see if it helps further.


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## A Hill

Tank looks great!

Yeah I really like going and collecting plants! Maybe one day I'll have to come and meet up with you:hihi:. If you ever collect too much moss and you need to get rid of some let me know, I would be glad to pay for shipping! In my area its pretty hard to get good moss, my best find so far is stringy moss. And it was my first so I'm hooked:help: . The moss you collected looks really healthy! Its a weed you say, well that is always good!

I'm not sure why but your tank seems to be getting dark, maybe its time for a big trim since you are too good at growing these plants??

- Andrew


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## medicineman

@Fish Newb,
Heheh.. collecting some specimens is just my side hobby, that is if time allows when I'm travelling out town. Too bad here in island of java hunting plants is not that fun (tainted rivers, care to try the paddy fields? :hihi: ), but still possible. In island of sumatra or borneo things will be different where they are still pristine nature reserves (decreasing in alarming rate).

The tank is getting darker? It is still the old tank you saw all this time, just with significantly improved growth quality. So no photoshop to darken those area or any new black background.
Several things to explain that:
-plants choked the tank, needs trimming
-photoshoot at night time
-photography effect. exposure and shutter speed factor.


The dark parts are jungle of vals or jungle of ferns and some partial driftwood. I swear I spectate more and more flowering ever since I upped CO2 and switch to phosporic acid. Upon carefully looking today when doing WC and minor trimming (thrown away another dustbin full of plants: lots of water sprite, some ambulia that I collected from a river and tangled mass of valis leaves), I counted:
-4 anubias flowers
-3 blyxa flower stalks (I'm just guessing because it looks different, like a metal wire going for surface)
-6 ottelia flowers
-more vallisneria flowers, it is creating spiral mess


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## medicineman

One of the ottelia flowers made it to the surface, surviving fish attack (my anubias flowers are also victims). This means just 1 out of 7 stalks survived to bloom.










It is so white...
I hope to see this frequent enough, provided that my fish leave the flowers alone (should have seen 7 of these in the first place).

And here is what turns out to be asian ambulia. I collected it along with the ottelia in a river. The plant used to be short leaved, hairy and looks like some kind of ugly weed. I tried it anyway because I found it laying around the bottom of the river. This thing grow well and fast, I started with a single ugly stem and now I got lots of it. The single stem was tucked to a wood cranny and it did surprisingly well with no substrate at all.


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## medicineman

I repositioned the oversized ottelia a bit to the rear. It reacts not too well, stopping its growth and no more flowers. I guess it hates getting touched.. not too worry 'm sure it'll grow back again.

The ambulia proved to be too invasive for the top part, so It is repositioned, replacing I'm-bored-of water sprite to the right. 

And after some minor positioning and trimming later, the tank is already getting brighter. (well... still a bit dark at some spots, I'm not bold enough to cut down my super sized fern)









Fortunate enough I've got the time to do this :icon_lol: 

I like how the tank is improving lately. Learning to handle high light tank (esp harnessing MH) is never so easy. Since the compacta appears to love my local water well enough (check out how it improves to later treatment) I think I will be using much more on my next overhaul.

There must be a minute leak of some sort somewhere in the CO2 system. All 15lbs worth of CO2 gets depleted in around 3 months... I'm not too sure if my rate of CO2 usage is that bad. Upon checking the line, check valve and counter I failed to find any leak. It leaves to the regulator.... going to take the whole tank out of the cabinet and check it soon (a bit too late, the pressure is already some 100 from initial 1500). This time I have a spare 6lbs tank on stand by, so no more screwing up tank because of some CO2 refill.


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## TheOtherGeoff

looks awesome!! im so jealous you have hygro. corybosa. i love that stuff but cant find it over here anymore since the LFS i worked at ordered it...on my accord. bah


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## medicineman

TheOtherGeoff said:


> looks awesome!! im so jealous you have hygro. corybosa. i love that stuff but cant find it over here anymore since the LFS i worked at ordered it...on my accord. bah


Dont worry, I'm quite sure you will get them soon enough. It is already in season, I can find them at large amount on the local market that some even did not sell out until partially turning into submersed form. I think if the LFS ordered some in emmersed form (and imported from around asia) there should be no availability problem, it is already monsoon right here and aquatic plants are getting plentiful.

Today I checked at the CO2 tank and use some soap bubbles to test for leak. No good... I cannot find any leak along from the tank to the reactor, which means that I must have been using much CO2 than before ... addicted to it I guess :icon_lol: 
Anyway in several days it is almost dead at near 0 PSI. Time to swap to small reserve tank and refill the big one.


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## A Hill

Tank looks great. Well I bet it's easier for you to get tropical plants by collecting them than me:hihi: .. 

That flower was Very White!

- Andrew


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## TheOtherGeoff

medicineman said:


> Dont worry, I'm quite sure you will get them soon enough. It is already in season, I can find them at large amount on the local market that some even did not sell out until partially turning into submersed form. I think if the LFS ordered some in emmersed form (and imported from around asia) there should be no availability problem, it is already monsoon right here and aquatic plants are getting plentiful.


youd think and hope so but plants are hard to come by in may area. its all the same basic plants, nothing thats too unsual per say. too bad you cant ship the stuff over here.


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## medicineman

I never thought that I will ever resolve to this condition ....










Better than nothing, frantically made, 3 bottles (only 3 because I ran out of any more line connector) that may spare the tank from death. 1-2 bps of precious CO2.

As you guessed it, I'm out of CO2. The whole city is running out of CO2, supply has been little and late for the last 1 month. Even my spare 6lbs bottle given up the ghost and I have no more. This is the worst that even plan B failed.

I reduced a tad bit of regular photoperiod, that goes the same with the ferts.
I hope supply will come very soon. I left all my tanks at the station, on the first queue (it goes differently here, you do not hire tanks, you buy them) hoping the best to assure.

Perhaps next time I should consider a 60lbs tank as a spare...


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## sayn3ver

dude that sucks. I don't see how they can be out with the planet's abundence of co2 from global warming. If anything there should be a surplus.


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## brianemone

I have always been impressed with your tanks Medicine man. Your plants look fantastic.


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## Pen3

Medicineman nice tank, but have you though of adding a UV sterilizer to your filter loop? I run MH in my tank to and it helps make it hassle free from algae growth. I set mine to run about 12hours a day when all lights are out.


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## donaldbyrd

Pen3 is there a advantage to running your uv when your lights are out?


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## Pen3

not really, but i didnt want to change bulbs too often and figure that best time to have it off is when plants are taking in some neutrients that uv removes. Just being a little efficient even if it doesnt really effect much.


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## medicineman

@brianemone,
Thanks. Those great ones are the true survivors.
I did try what I can but some plants are not meant to be in my tank.
This CO2 shortage will cost me dearly and I'm pretty sure of that (well... not to the point of wrecking my tank)

@sayn3ver,
Perhaps I did not try hard enough :icon_lol: 
I'm sure there are refilling stations out there with stock, esp those factory-run ones. The shortage upon my research is likely to be caused by some government project desperately taking whatever production available, because they are late on finishing some public job. Kinda stupid of them....

@Pen3,
Never run UVs before. I think I never need them, but in reality they could have helped a lot to clear up remaining pesky algae problem in my tank. Perhaps I should get one one of these days.

CO2 shortage has taken its toll, but not as bad as I expected. Notably algae is slowly taking back the throne, and I can expect a nasty battle afterwards.
I really hope my tank will get filled soon enough.... sigh...


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## Pen3

medicineman it also makes your water crystal clear, almost as good as a diatom filter. I have a portable UV for my other tanks that doesn't have inline UV alreadyand it only takes 6-8 hours and tank is crystal clear after water changes or planting/arranging plants.


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## medicineman

It has been around a week since my CO2 tank is back from refill and hooked on. 

Without CO2 for prolonged time, the damage is already done. To make things worse, I admit that I replaced my usual medium-soft water with my well water for the last two months ... all because the city tap water is running quite low, and it does not have the pressure to climb up to second floor where the tank's at. I know I should get myself in the future a plug in pump that can handle H max of 6 meters or more. Harder water means death to some plants, and slower growth rate to some other. 

Despite of all that damage and algae, I can see this tiger lotus of mine actually bounce off against the odds. It has been laying there almost dormant for months... until now... puzzles me :icon_roll 









It rocks all right :smile: 

I'm going to look and spare some time and see if I can get this one year old setup back on track (fixing stuff, improving circulation, vaccuming, removing dying and dead plants, getting reliable softer water back, some root tabs, replacement plants and definately some minor rescape).


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

Pen3 said:


> not really, but i didnt want to change bulbs too often and figure that best time to have it off is when plants are taking in some neutrients that uv removes. Just being a little efficient even if it doesnt really effect much.


you know... the most stress for time for a light bulb is when it is turned on. I saw this on mythbusters and the light bulbs defiantly die faster and faster if you turn them on and off more.


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## crazy loaches

MM - just read this whole thread front to back! Wow, nice setup and wish the best for recovery after co2 mishap. Without CO2 would it have been better to stop fertilization and darken the tank?



CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> you know... the most stress for time for a light bulb is when it is turned on. I saw this on mythbusters and the light bulbs defiantly die faster and faster if you turn them on and off more.


I have read somewhere (cant remember exactly where) that lights are rated with so many turn on/offs. But also shutting them off and letting them cool helps thier life too. The best lifetime I think they said was 1 on/off cycle per day. Not sure how true this is and how much the type of light/ballast can effect this.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

med. Man Try using a 5 gallon water jug for co2 generator. they work well for large tanks. my 72 gallon goes on for a month or more! I am not sure how long. I accidentally popped my last one. The on down stairs has been going for 2 months though!.


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## medicineman

@crazy loaches,
Glad you find it and drop in 
I did reduced my photoperiod and ferts... added DIY CO2 as well. 
Futile attempt, my plants are so used with 7+bps of CO2 that they refused to cope with the absence. To make matters worse this tank is on the balcony and I have no easy, convenient means to cover it up from excess indirect sunlight spilling onto it.
The measures I've taken did some good but did not prevent the tank from going into doom.

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
I was in despair when I thought about that. 19 liter mineral water bottle that we use on our dispenser. That would hold 7-8 pounds of sugar easy (accordingly to soda bottle scale) and think of the amount of CO2 it can produce each second...

After all now I have all my CO2 tanks back and filled and I did not intend to run out again in the near future so perhaps extra tanks will certainly help. I think of those huge industrial gas tank but they are too nasty for our house.

Several days ago I'm reviving the tank, step by step since I did not want to tear up the tank. The damage was not that far in the first place.
I pulled out a lot of plants and vaccum the ground (mostly the left part). I also grabbed the top layer of gravel which is infested with BBA, bleach them and wash clean before returning to tank. Those plants that can stand bleacing are dipped, those which cannot are taken out to trash or trimmed to the uninfected leaves. While doing this, I also added lots of root tabs to rejuvenate most roots type plants.

Realizing that the problem did occur (although not as bad) since before the mishaps, I blame poor water circulation and lack of CO2 as the cause. The tank has grown into thick jungle with plants blocking the way of water. I need to find a way to restore the flow while not seriously hacking off all the plants. So I re-route the water outflow using a pipe extension in such that the return flow from filter reaches the dead spot first and let physics take over the other side trough the negative area of overflow.


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## medicineman

Not stopping there, I also added back a rather huge powerhead into the main tank. Additional 578 gph of flow cannot be wrong to make sure the flow reaches the other side and go trough the dead spots. To perfect the system, I also follow Barr's suggestion on bigger tank by adding a diffuser on the intake of the powerhead and have it micronized and blown all over the tank.
Now with double the CO2 from mist/micro bubble and dissolved via inline reactor, the concentration and distribution must be on target.
Of course the only drawback is the mist it creates. It kinda blocks the view to certain degree.

Already it looks much better after a few days of changes with greatly improved surface clearness










Next would be the right part and the huge fern on the center. They need some care but not to be taken care of. It is already too thick and dark with all that towering structure blocking the lower part from light.


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## fresh_lynny

MM nice recovery. SO many neat projectes over there...how do you find the time?
I live that otellia flower and glad you got a shot of the rarity since it makes for good fish snacking!


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## Zulu

CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> you know... the most stress for time for a light bulb is when it is turned on. I saw this on mythbusters and the light bulbs defiantly die faster and faster if you turn them on and off more.


Yep. Ever had a lightbulb just burnout randomly? It's always when you turn it on. 

There was a thread about UV and Iron tho, so, might be handy to have it off during the day if you're dosing. I'm too ghetto for that, tho. Dosing, that is.


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## unirdna

Just finished catching up, MM. Quite an ordeal with the CO2 and the water pressure. It looks like you called the right audible. I think the photoperiod reduction was a very good move. Your congos are getting huge. They make your tank look like a 180g.....until you look over at the tiny rasboras and rummies.


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## red406

MM...i am so envious of your tank and what a recovery...roud: 

just want to ask, maybe it's my monitor, but your plants are like a shade of 'pale' green? lack of iron?


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## medicineman

@red406,
To answer that, it is mostly because of overexposure in the photograph. My tank is lit by very strong MH lighting which are hanged very close to the water surface... too close indeed of just merely 18cm - not the distance people would set their MH at (well, at least those with MH of excess than 70W each)
To make matters looks as in the pic, gradient between the bright part and the dark part of the tank is so extreme; the top part is shimmering with those plants directly on the way of the light, while the lower parts are blocked by the giant growth (just like a rainforest).
The plants are actually not too damaged or too undernourished. You can look my lotus and quick growing hygros says otherwise.
I could have set it to show up the right exposure for the bright part, but then large part of the tank would appear pitch black 

@fresh_newby,
I did the job partially, stealing time on the afternoon and weekends.
Yeah, those ottelia keeps on flowering until now, maybe 2-4 buds a month. And like usual, it is seen as tasty treat. 

@unirdna,
In the first place I would have hacked all the towering, huge plants and save all my problems, but I intend to save them giant growth for my future pond/tank.
Actually those are some of the replacement juvenille congos I got earlier. The original full sized congos died eventually and I have three of them left.


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## medicineman

Days later... surviving from Jakarta's great flood (70% of the city was under water). Luckily I live in a safe-ever from flood area, and electrical supply to my place is not distrupted at all by the catastrophe. Just imagine should I stay elsewhere and my house is flooded.. that would be sucks.










Green plants can also turns funky colour

Looking at these ambulia, I think now I'm getting back in the right track :icon_bigg


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## red406

medicineman...

good to know that you're safe...


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## medicineman

@red406,
Thanks. Fortunately, there has been no record of flooding in my area. Quite safe on higher grounds and I can sleep easier when it is raining cats and dogs all day long.


Since the tank is getting ever more cramped, this otellia flower (again) survived from fish predation.










I can expect more of these in the future










For the flowering is induced by a quality local product. Even though it is still hand made and disintegrates easily in water (a treat that we all hate), the mixture is quite great to promote growth and flowering. I've tried it, my friends as well with great result. People have witnessed more flowering, greater plant size, faster growth and even plants rebounding from dying.
The stuff is made by a local aquascaping shop in Bandung. A small package cost a bit more than a dollar and can treat a few roots type plants for 2-3 months.










I nickname this product "rat poo". Kinda looks alike the actual thing dont you think? :hihi:


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## medicineman

Well... the flower was great and beautiful. But I'm quite surprised it last for a short one day. This time the flower was not harmed at all, I witnessed it wilt out of the water. What a shame for such beautiful flower!

Anyway the "rat poo" stuff is quite effective for most plants with strong rooting system/root nutrient uptake. My zenkeri is never as big as today... even when I mix some commercial root balls to the base of the plant. I will update in a week or two on how big the leaves can be for now it keeps going bigger and bigger to almost palm size!

I wish they make it in ball/tablet form which is much more durable and resist disintegration for a few minutes to buy some time jabbing it in place.


----------



## medicineman

Update on the zenkeri lotus.
I added in own made roots tablets around 2-3 weeks after the initial "rat poo" treatment and sure the combo is great for the growth. I think it almost tenfold in size right now.










You can use the full sized Puntius or the jumbo red nose tetra for comparison.
I've never had any huge zenkeri before such as this one .... the ones I've seen reaching almost this size is those aerial leaves that are grown outdoors on rich soil.

There is also this Aponogeton crispus which is already over a year in the tank that I almost forget it. The plant is cramped in a clay pot with some soil mix in it, and the positioning is such that it has been crushed by bigger plants, out of sufficient light. I moved the mangled plant left with very thin 3-4 leaves to light and jabbed in some of the same root ferts combo. Weeks later, it grew many new leaves and looks healthy again.










Not stopping there, while in the dwarf form, the plant throw out a flower. What a bonus 









The size of flower is still much smaller than the last flower I had before. Probably it was because carried over energy resource and was not my tank at that time.


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## fresh_lynny

sweet! That lotus is gorgeous and the A. crispus flower is quite the bonus~


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## crazy loaches

Yes, very nice. I'd be keeping that lotus trimmed though, mine had gotten away from me and grew so big I was trimming usually about four 12" wide leaves a week for many weeks till I got it back smallish again. The leaves were huge... and I am not using any ferts accept in the water colum (EI). My big lotus


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## Jessica

Mind boggling. Beautiful home, tank, everything. Glad to hear that you and your home are unharmed.

Stunning.


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## Architect1

medicineman I love your tanks I wish I had the time, money, and skills like you to do what you do. I'm wondering if you have a huge planted discus tank? If Not do you have any intentions of starting one?


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## medicineman

@fresh_lynny,
A bonus during hard time indeed :icon_lol: 

@crazy loaches,
Interesting. My lotus never reached the current size (which keep getting bigger as I write this down) in any one of my tanks with just EI via water collumn. I guess zenkeri species is a hard one to grow within the lotus variety (green, red, pink, rubra, etc).

@Jessica,
Thanks 

@Architect1,
Nope, I've never kept any discus in a planted tank. I would want a warmer setup should I start one. I've kept fish only tank with discus by mid 90's though, beautiful fish but they require proper maintenance.


OK... time for update.

I must admit my tank is kinda messed up again. I've been lazy enough not to clean thouroughly (good vaccuming) of dust, dirt and mulm out of the tank. Some plants are great, better than ever but the overall tank is a PITA. I've been losing my battle with BBA, and a bit of BGA is making a comeback. 
I guess letting a tank near sunlight is a very bad idea :help: 
Late CO2, degrading water circulation, choking tank are some reasons to blame. I've lost several fish also, 5 congos, 1 denisonii, 1 red nose and one of my rainbow shark turned blind. My tank is invested with evil!

So I decided it is "exorcist" time. No, not that extreme tear-down, I'm not in the position for that :
1. Too risky to be done. I will lose more fish and plant on the process.
2. Time consuming (and I'm running out of it), a tear down will take at least 2 days if done efficiently, 3 days to set it back with partial replacement plants.
3. Expensive. Think of the labour and material I will need. Time is also money. Think of what happen if I fell sick like last time when I pushed myself to complete a tear down dan finish the re-setup within a day.

Instead I did heavy maintenance, which is done half day :
1. Pull out as many plants as possible.
2. Good cleaning and vaccuming.
3. Take out that boring driftwood and replace with something with more character (Good that I sink lots of DW inside my pond).
4. Get rid/sterilize of infected parts. Next I plan to H2O2 spot treatment to help further BBA eradication.
5. Make double CO2 outlet, diffuser and reactor combination.
6. Trim overgrown plants.
7. Go to the LFS and get some replacement plants.
8. Set the tank again.

Now behold... I know that you are going to love this and wish that you were here to take the trimmings/leftovers.

I started with several vals and end up with this harvest (this is maybe nothing and it is common enough to have vals overgrowth). A big scissors and newspapers for comparison.










But I assure you, when you have started with a plate sized microsorum it is rare enough to reach this kind of size (unless that is you give it plenty of time and sufficient room to grow). 









Note a single bunch of microsorum colony, forced to fit into big bucket (you can see how dense it is). A mineral water bottle for size comparison.


----------



## philoserenus

ur harvest will definitely earn u a few good bucks to help u cut down the cost of aquarium keeping eh? haha.... man, this is nuts, haha


----------



## TheOtherGeoff

holy crap!! i totally wish i could get ahold of that vail!!!


----------



## medicineman

@philoserenus,
It may, even though at this side of the world such harverst will never reach good selling value. But I decided these plants are too precious to throw/sell away, esp I value the bucket sized microsorum which you do not find everyday on any market, even right here. I'm saving for future use, with a much bigger pond-tank coming soon enough and I'll be throwing in the big clump of microsorum. 

@TheOtherGeoff,
Like they say... vals can take over your tank :icon_lol: 


Most of the plants you saw on the pics are re-used, so the final product after this heavy maintenance should not differ so much that you can still recognize this as my old tank. Right now it looks bulky and so full with that mature tank look despite all the trimming and repositioning I did.

As expected, such maintenance has always cost some casualty, not to mention if I tear up the tank completely. 2 rummy nose end up dead overnight. With the rest of the pack swimming actively, I should not worry too much.
Lets wait a little bit more for the water to clear up and see how it looks like.
I added in a DIY mechanical filter to speed up the process (a simple powerhead connected to a cut-off bottle filled with filter floss).


----------



## TheOtherGeoff

medicineman said:


> @TheOtherGeoff,
> Like they say... vals can take over your tank :icon_lol:


Mine arent spreading in the 75 where i want them to. they just keep getting taller and taller. haha. 

i cant wait for pictures


----------



## medicineman

Frankly, mine has stopped growing wildly lately as well. You can see the roots are not so white anymore though the vals still can grow for more than 6 feet with no problem.

So here you go, the tank after it clears up a bit

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/DSC_0054-1.jpg

The DWs are not so visible and I'll probably take another shot later on with more exposure. 
I'm not too happy with that blocky microsorum right now, perhaps if I look for a long, slim twig and stick it inbetween will work to break out the blockyness.
It cant be helped really, my tank is still so cramped because I cannot throw anything yet :hihi:


----------



## medicineman

Not finished with cramping plants yet... my pal Jeffrey called me to notice that there was a shipment of more rare anubias... those bigger anubias barteri "broad leaves" and anubias minima. Here goes again collectoritis problem... without waiting, several of them are now in the tank. These are really my savings for future setups and I do not mind too much having a cramped tank right now :icon_lol: 

Again a shot (with the extra plants from Jef) on improved detail and exposure










:sigh:
The tank is getting less lively laterly that I have only two of the big congos left. And as expected, I found another red nose victim, totalling of 4 just from tearing up the tank.
Perhaps I should be looking for replacements, or even better, some more denisoniis (they are just so hard to come by around here) :icon_smil


----------



## jt20194

*Workaholic*

Medicineman, you do have a number of projects!!! All of them well documented and beautiful!

Jim


----------



## TheOtherGeoff

thats prolley my favorite version of the tank youve shown us yet.


----------



## medicineman

Found something going out from aponogeton crispus. I thought it was a flower stalk. Later on it shows something different from usual. An aerial leaf!


----------



## medicineman

When the main lights are off...


----------



## CampCreekTexas

Good*NESS*, that is *gorgeous!!!* Incredible job, Medicineman! Man, I can only dream about having a tank that nice looking one day. 

What are those light green plants in the bottom left of the first pic directly above? They look like they're planted in orange pots. Those are darling little things! This is the pic I'm talking about:


----------



## medicineman

@CampCreekTexas,

If you are referring to the compact growing bright green plants that is on the foreground of the left part of the tank, they are called Hygrophila corymbosa "var compacta". 
On good condition, it grows lots of side shoots and does not lose/goes bald on the lower part so long as you keep it not too shadowed. A good trick is to re-plant the bushy part of the plant and discard the bottom every several months. But then again, it is a matter of personal taste for the bottom part has its own appeal, forming mangrove-like root once the plant settle down.

Here is a large group that I used on a 20 gallon tank. You can always trim it down a bit to avoid this kind of "jungle" feeling when used in a smaller tank.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/DSC_0150.jpg

The orange pots you see (I cant believe you spotted them!) are actually for test purposes. There are several of the pots scattered within this tank, more that you cannot view from the photo. Those are initial test for my own line of prototype root tabs :

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/concept-3.jpg


----------



## CampCreekTexas

Wonderful! Thanks for the name. I MUST have some of those, so they're on my "Want Real Bad List".  I know what you mean about the bottoms of the trimmed plants ~ I can't throw them out either and am finding I prefer them, especially after they get very bushy.

I've read another thread about your fert tabs. You were coming up with a label design. So, are you marketing them yet? And how do you get the tabs such a nice, compact shape ~ do you have a form you press them into? Or hire that part out?


----------



## medicineman

Well... the tablet is made out of careful formulation and trials. You need the correct composition, appropriate excipients in right amount, correct binder, just enough forging force and so on. They are made by automated tableting machine, such in fashion they use to make drugs. The process involves raw material control, weighting in, mixing, granulation, oven-drying and so on which may take several days to cure properly and complete to a tablet.

For now all the products (liquid and tabs) are sold locally and currently under early testings in Singapore.

It would be a big challange to get any sample to USA. I havent find a cheap and easy way to do so, even just for non-mass-commerical purpose (just for the test and have you guys giving approval).


----------



## FelixAvery

haha you really are the medicine man
you should make a hit 70's cop show


----------



## barfly

Hey medicineman, when will your root tabs be ready for purchase? i'd like to try it out. will you be selling them here?


----------



## medicineman

@barfly,
Check in AQ forum for thread. Cek your PM.

Here is what I got today :










4 aponogeton flowers all at once. Even though I have 4 of them, it is not smelly/foul at all, unlike what people thought.


----------



## octopus44

Do you have any issues with water condensation on the outside of your aquarium? It must get pretty hot in Indonesia, and there must be quite a temperature difference from the air and the water in your aquarium. 

The reason I ask is because I will using a chiller on my aquarium here in New Orleans, Louisiana where it also gets hot and humid and I am worried that condensation will be an issue.

Beautiful tank by the way!


----------



## medicineman

@octopus44,

I've never had any issues with condensation on aquarium glass, even when setting the chillers as low as 24C. Yes it is quite hot around here all year long (Jakarta), temp ranges from 26-34, humidity is 65-90%+.


----------



## octopus44

medicineman said:


> @octopus44,
> 
> I've never had any issues with condensation on aquarium glass, even when setting the chillers as low as 24C. Yes it is quite hot around here all year long (Jakarta), temp ranges from 26-34, humidity is 65-90%+.


Great! Thats good news. I was afraid I was going to be cleaning water off of the glass all day long. Thanks!


----------



## supaflyz

when i become a dentist I'm going to get it like that lol. For now just a dream.


----------



## medicineman

The tank goes into roller coaster as I spend less time tending the scape, though maintenance routines were done.

Becoming more and more of a jungle tank









Excuse the soda bottle diffuser. The internal reactor was busted loose just when I was about to travel away for a week.

Floating plants almost take over the tank that some started to creep out of water, and it would be best to do a hack job soon.









Another victim of my testing.
These crypts were skinny and not too long eversince they were introduced into the tank. Half a dozen of my own tabs and several weeks later, they morph into fat and lush group.









I wish I could share this joy of root tabs with theplantedtank members... it is just too far away for me to market small amount for the test. Anyone wants to volunteer?


----------



## unirdna

Nice Update, MM. Seems that you've really homed in on those root tabs. The crypts look perfect. This has been my favorite photo of your tank. I love the look of Hydrocotyle climbing out. That stuff is relentless - gives the look of untamed nature. Redline sharks are awesome, too. Those suckers cost $40 a piece in my part of the world.


----------



## tropicalfish

Looks nice! What is that big bottle doing?


----------



## will5

*Hi*

This tank will always be one of my favorites.  Great job.


----------



## medicineman

@unirdna,
Sure love roseline sharks. They can die misteriously though, for I initially have 5, now left with only just 3. 









I can say these are expensive as well around here, fully grown ones like the one you can see is nowhere to be found and may cost in excess of $10 each.
Luckily, some smart guys bought all denisoniis available a year or so ago and managed to find a way to breed them. Now we can sometimes find $4 denisonii babies on sale in local market and I'm going to get more one of these days.

The Root tab (I named it Wonder-Gro Root+) is great! Cannot wait until some samples can be distributed in USA.

@tropicalfish,
The soda bottle acts as water flow diffuser, slowing down powerful burst from the powerhead (micro bubbler) without restricting it.
My internal reactor was busted when I was about to leave for a long period, so a small airstone into powerhead is the way to go. Works great even though it looks strange. Now if someone will make a form of lily pipe of something out of this principal, could be selling.


----------



## medicineman

I've had quite enough of the messy jungle and since my project sunken garden is ready for planting, I decided that some plants from this setup could be put into good use as donor.

So 2-3 weeks ago I stripped most of the plants and do vaccuming job before making selection, pruning and replanting. I purposely leave some plants that easily melts away when disturbed (in this tank is vallisneria americana).

Surprisingly enough, eversince I use micro bubbler CO2 injection (done by using a small ceramic diffuser inside a large powerhead) most of the algae in this tank dissapear.
.... amusing because I did not add any extra BPS of CO2 and considering that some people argue and swear that dissolving CO2 is better than giving CO2 mist! BBA is the most notable one, I used to have them all over, even on the substrate - now almost clean, even on lower anubias leaves.

So here it is some time after the fix









No fancy scape for now :icon_redf , but this will do it for me.
In essence, still a jungle even though I hack it badly. You cant even see those driftwoods inside.


----------



## Landon

Beautiful tank!! Im really liking your set up. I just read the first 10 pages or so, and the last 3. I have a few questions going back a few years  

Is your drain pipe just a typical stand pipe? Is there any noise you can hear from the water going down? How much flow do you have coming/going through the sump?

Im just about to set up a 110 and am trying to get ideas for eliminating parts within the tank. Ive got an idea for a drain pipe, but assumed it would need the typical (of reef tanks) 'overflow box'. Apparently im wrong, or dont understand your set up.

Thanks,
Landon


----------



## medicineman

@Landon,

Yes, my overflow pipe is just the simple straight one. Below at the sump there is a pre-filter basket filled with coarse media to silence the falling water.

It is best not to copy that overflow pipe of mine if you hate it sticking right in the middle of aquarium and go with overflow box at the back corner of the tank using blackened glass, straight to the bottom. Another option is to make an overflow box and drill it out of the tank, then down to the sump.


----------



## Landon

I think Ill be going out of the back of the tank because its not drilled yet. Ill have a large stack of root wood in the corner, and should have no problems hiding it there. It would be harder to hide the box though.

I was mainly concerned with the suction noise at the surface. If flow isnt too high this is not a problem, but with no other water movement in the tank at all, Im wondering if Ill get enough for the whole tank run through the sump.

I saw how you 'muffled' the sound in the sump, I do something similar with my set ups, and will continue as its a good, effective idea 

Thanks for your information.


----------



## medicineman

The tank now, after overgrown and cut over and over again.
At this point BBA is totally gone by itself. However some bits of thread algae still exist, forming a bond with this tank since the early days.


----------



## A Hill

Looks Great Medman!

I would be willing to give a go with the root ferts! I will be redoing my 55g tank sooner or later, probably in the next few months. 

Let me know if you're planning on sending any over.

-Andrew


----------



## medicineman

@Fish Newb
Sure, how about if we arrange a mass order and handle the burden together. I'm half a globe away and the parcel cost isnt going to be pretty at small number  

Anyway, the other side,


----------



## ikuzo

those denisonis are absolutely beautiful. how big can they be?
do keeping three of them as adults made them less aggresive? i read it should be kept in more than 6 to make them behave nicely and school.


----------



## medicineman

The biggest group I have can reach as big as 6 inch and I'm pretty sure it wont go further.

They are not at all agressive even towards small fish. Keeping in larger number would be better as they school, just be sure to have a big tank ready as they grow out.


----------



## medicineman

A pic to show update on the tank

It has been quite some time the tank is left to grow as is, with just trimming and maintenance routines.










One thing you mention is that the tiger lotus decided to die out because it was moved to the background where it received less light and somewhat crushed by neighbouring plants.

One of these free days I should be doing a major work on this tank and give it a fresh look.


----------



## mnellis3023

wow, I thinnk that is amazing looking as is. What are your plans for the rescape?


----------



## loachlady5

I think it looks awesome now! I'm liking the dark space on the far right -kind of gives it a jungle or amazon feel. What floating plants are those?


----------



## medicineman

@mnellis3023,
Maybe a fresh new layout on the hardscape. Driftwood hunt perhaps.

@loachlady5,
Thanks. Though personally I think it is getting boring because it has stayed like this over the time, with a slightly new look every time it grow out and trimmed down.
The floating plants at the right side are a mix of ceratopteris, utricularia, lesser duckweed. The huge leaves are from ottelia alismoides.


----------



## remy

Nice setups you got going there, buddy :thumbsup:


----------



## medicineman

Update

This tank has been left to grow as is without real interference from outside, namely excessive pruning.

The lack of control and attention (limited to dosing, feeding and WC) has caused things to went out of control. Sights are getting dark at spots. BGA started to grow at the tops section due to poor water flow, blocked by many plants, surface dwelling and giant growth alike.

So a major hack job was done. Minor positioning/uprooting to balance the growth, and mass cleaning of the areas from gravel gunk and balls of thread algae from in between plants.

All old plants back into use.

3 days after :










Fellow CAE helps with cleaning leaves from dust collected by the cleaning and uprooting.










I'd prefer ottocinclus and actually put around ten long ago. But half tearing up my tank proved that I have around 2 or so left two years after. I swear I have never seen any of them for months until now!


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Dedy send the US some Lemon Algae eaters.


----------



## dantra

Orlando said:


> Dedy send the US some Lemon Algae eaters.


That would be awesome... count me in :biggrin: :thumbsup:


----------



## medicineman

@Orlando and dantra,

Ha ha ha.... that would be a problem for me.
Perhaps some experienced exporter from Singapore could do it to fulfill US demand.
I guess these sucker fish is still uncommon there. It is much harder than your regular fish, and lighting fast too that you wont be able to take it out without tearing up a tank. Probably the last fish to be taken out.


Back to tank story

Late last year I received a gift of an emmersed plantlet of Echinodorus pink "Oriental" from a friend and it ended up inside this tank. It has always been there though you cannot notice it in pics before the fix.

Tropica claimed that the plant is a task to keep alive in a planted tank though I found that it just need a sure supply of substrate nutrient.

Here it is now, grown into mother plant size.









Second set of plantlet thrown.









I do not know where are the first plantlets are right now. They are just hidden somewhere in one of my setups :icon_roll 

The pale pink color exist on young buds and become gradually greener as they grow old. Good substrate supplement boost it to striking pink/lavender.


----------



## James From Cali

Medicineman, your tank has been such a joy to track. I have not posted but have followed. Your tank is so lush and lively yet tranquil at the same time. I could only imagine what it feels like to look at it daily as the fish swim by. Your plants and scaping are wonderful


----------



## deleted_user_16

that is a awesome tank!!!!! I wish my parents would let me......


----------



## Buck

Nice photos and the trim looks fantastic, that must be quite a task in a tank that size ! Also your Echino pink is a beautiful plant, first time I have seen one that large and healthy. 
If you are feeding it these magic root tabs , count me in on that group order !! :hihi:


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Dedy you keep teasing us with these beautiful plants and great photos. When are you going to invite all of us over for a swim in the tank/pond and the 260's


----------



## medicineman

@James,
Thanks.
I just make use of maturity of the tank and tidy up a bit.

@fishman,
Need to wait some years and get your own. I'm sure parents would this kind of tank is no longer a regular toy (and indeed these are big toys). But dont be detered for smaller sized tanks could also be made very nice and much easier to handle.

@Buck,
Group buy has ended I'm affraid.
But I believe you still can get some of the extra stocks for sale from Andrew or Orlando.
Sure enough I put the Root+ tabs under it, around 1 every 4 weeks to keep it colourfull and ever bigger.

@Orlando,
Ha ha ha.... half a globe away. Though if you happen to be here it is allowed to pay a visit. No swimming. :icon_roll


----------



## lauraleellbp

I love that sword- I love swords in general- but that one *really* lovely!

I'm with Orlando- I totally want to be a fish so I can swim in one of your tanks!!!


----------



## medicineman

More pic of plant.

Limnophila aquatica.










The descendant of the plants I collected from a stream in Sumatra last year, trimming upon trimming later. They keep on growing in this tank and never dies out.

Versatile enough, with the look of a cabomba but I'd say it is easier to handle (at least in all of my tanks).


----------



## medicineman

Several weeks later and after regular dose of Substrate fertilizer (W-Gro Root+), I end up with plantlet vaganza from my echi pink. No less than 5 plantlets from 3 stalks.

more are coming :icon_eek:


----------



## medicineman

The tank has overgrown (again) and like what have happened before, all critters are having a hard time navigating the tank. Bars of plant mass sticking for the surface and the view is getting dimmer by the days. 

A good excuse for a major trimming session, and may as well do overhaul job all the way!

Since doing a tank of the scale is time consuming, I cannot afford to tear it down and start anew as a clean tank - not to mention shopping for replacement plants. I just lifted up all of the hardscape and pulled out most plants and did a vacuuming job afterwards. During the session I kept the sump filter running on a loop to keep it functioning (do not want to end up a filter of less colony of bacteria)

Utilizing whatever I have available around the house, this time I decided to use some volcanic rocks as a component of hardscape.










It is a murky tank the day after I replanted using trimmed old plants.
I'll be refining any lack of details, small steps each time.


----------



## medicineman

Waiting for clear up...


----------



## medicineman

Keeping promise for a shot of clear tank

Background plants for the left part start to appear above the midground area (limnophila aquatica and poliserma). You can notice 12" crypts surrounding 5 feet long crinum. On the right, echinodorus oriental remains where it was, backed by now fluffed up echinodorus uruguayensis - I'd say a good candidate to replace invasive and long-leaved vallisneria gigantea.










List of plants roughly remains the same:

Crypt wendtii (green, brown)
Echinodorus pink
Echinodorus red flame
Vallisneria gigantea
Ottelia alismoides
Anubias nana
Anubias agustifolia
Limnophila aquatica
Hygrophila poliserma
Hygrophila corymbosa
Microsorum pteropus
Microsorum pteropus var windelov
Taiwan moss (hijacker)
Hydrocotyle sp


----------



## medicineman

The cycle returns.

It has been quite some time since the tank ever received heavy maintenance, and it needs quite a major overhaul now. I guess too much ignorance is to blame.

Current latest condition 









Not exactly ruined, but is not tidy by standard. To add another reason overhauling this setup, it started to develop BBA. I blame inconsistent CO2 as the cause. You see, I have replaced my CO2 line some time before and it is one crappy product. Connection to and from the bubble counter would just pop out every now and then, sometimes not noticed for two or three days. I have the problem fixed in the end, but the damage is already done.

Tearing the tank down carefully









I left the sump filter running on a small loop, hoping that it may help to jump start the coming new setup.

It is always be a mess. Even worse when the setup is larger and you need to overhaul everything.









Some of the plants and all of whatever creatures I can collect out of the tank goes in buckets. This one is a 70-75 gallon container. Notice how fearful some swords can grow into.









Cleaning and evicting substrate is the worst part. Working in cramped tank (aint me in the pic!), scraping down algae (yuck, tons of hard BGA at the sides and back, some GSA along as well) and 600+lbs of gravel.


----------



## rountreesj

crazy rescape there...


----------



## medicineman

Quite tiring as usuall and it takes some time. I have additional 2hands for help to speed it up (or else my plants will face the consequence).

Choosing lava rocks and driftwood for the hardscape.
This time I try slanted stacked rock and wood formation instead of more traditional flattened/sloped style.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Definitely looking forward to the finished product!


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Another huge green masterpiece!


----------



## medicineman

Satisfied with the hardscape now, and proceed.
But so far the choice of plants are not so good, as I mostly recycle my old plants. I have no nowhere to properly dump them yet. It is very probable that I will want tear up the plants only in the next few months.

As predicted, now that I have just finished laying out plants, with lots of spare to throw. My plants are just too huge for this tank and they have somewhat made the hardscape sinks again :icon_roll

Waiting again for a glimpse of a clear setup.


----------



## medicineman

It's been extra instant clear up from setting murkiness for such tank size. Within several hours (planted in the morning), by nightfall it is reasonably clear enough to view.



















I will leave it much as is for several weeks, waiting for accelerated tank cycle (the filter is fully functioning and I left part of the old gravel mixed with the new one with finer particle size) before attempting any further plant change.

All the fish will remain for a while inside huge holding bucket, while they will be added in gradually over course of several days.


----------



## MrJG

Awesome! I know how much work I put into doing something like this on my comparatively tiny tanks, I can only imagine how much work you've put into the re-do. 
It looks fantastic. 

Does it not scare you a bit to have a full sized person moving about in the tank while doing work like that? I know there are few other choices to get the job done but it seems frightening to me. :O


----------



## medicineman

Actually it does bother me a bit of having a guy inside the tank. Worst case would be someone topple over while doing the tank and that may/may not cause notable damage.
However it is the best way to deal the job well. Removing crusts, tough GSA and lots of muds. Not to mention hard to reach spots, even by big men standard.

The tank rated to hold reef setup, reinforced glass bracings and reasonably strong cabinet. It is a common practice done around here, esp by reef builders where the setup is usually big.

*update : inserted most of the fish now. 
Turns out that I have some of my initial critters lost all these time, and find creatures that I thought does not exist anymore (4 ottos, never been seen in almost a year). The old setup sure was a jungle! :icon_roll


----------



## lauraleellbp

The new 'scape is amazing, I love it!

How deep is the substrate in the back?


----------



## CL

Awesome! I love you new scape!


----------



## medicineman

Substrate is about 8-9 inches at the back and 1.5-2 inches at the front.
It is getting perfectly clear and maybe I'll give a better shot, with the plants starting to fluff up (but not well rooted yet).


----------



## Renegade545

Great tank, i like the new design.


----------



## Saraja87

I love the contrast between the wood on one side and the rocks on the other. Is it just your photographs or are your lights really blue/crisp? 

What kind of swords are those in the bucket??? They look amazing!


----------



## medicineman

I use 6500K rated MH and PL tubes.

They are white with just a slight tint of blue. The picture turns out slightly more blue than original due to reflection of the white substrate and my camera settings (fluorescent WB).

The swords inside holding bucket are echindorus pink and the large one is echinodorus uruguayensis (potential of a hundread leaves when allowed to grow so).



Anyway,
Since I have all the fish back into the tank, and the water is almost crystal clear again, so I take a proper shot to show the initial stage of this setup.

Front full shot. You can notice at last the echinodorus plantlet made it trough the open top surface.









Spec review
Aquarium : approx 200 x 71 x 79 cm
Filter : overflow skimmer type sump filter with 5 chambers, approx 140 x 55 x 60 cm
Lighting : 3 x 150W Metal halide (venture 6500K), 4 x 36W neon PL (Osram 6500K)
CO2 : Press 8kg via reactor, 3-4 bps
Ferts : Wonder-Gro series (macro+, micro+, root+)
Temp : 26-27 C, DIY chiller dengan 2 buah kipas mini

Flora :
Anubias nana
Anubias minima
Cryptocoryne wendtii "green"
Cryptocoryne wendtii "brown"
Crinum calamistratum
Echinodorus oriental "pink"
Echinodorus uruguayensis
Echinodorus "red flame"
Hygrophila corymbosa "compacta"
Microsorum pteropus "windelov"
Vallisneria gigantea
Vallisneria nana
Vallisneria spiralis

Fauna :
CAE
Cherry shrimp
Corydoras albino
Puntius denisonii
Rasbora heteromorpha
Rasbora hengeli
Red nose tetra
Rainbow shark
Ottocinclus affinis


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## Chrisinator

Beatiful! I love your Torpedo Barbs! I'm hoping to keep them in the future!


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## medicineman

Torpedo barb is one unique fish, though you should not be fooled of the size they sell at LFS. It gets big, moves a lot and fast. Ample sized tank is a must. Keep them in a group so they will behave normally and school.
Some may uproot fine plants, but this behavior is never observed in any barb within my tanks.


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## SearunSimpson

How much do Torpedo Barbs go for over there? Over here they retail for $15.00/each in a certain store that I go to.


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## gabeszone247

Awesome work!! You just inspired me to set up a new planted tank!


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## medicineman

@SearunSimpson,
Denisonii used to be much more exclusive and very rare several years back as every single fish was imported. The fatality rate was high too, making the fish even more expensive. A 2" juvenile would worth at least $10.

Nowadays the import price has gone lower (but shipping price increase), better know how to press fatality rate and even better a limited success in local breeding. I can get one 1-2" for just $3-4 each. 

@gabeszone247,
:icon_redf
I thought the Japanese zen inspired me. But then :icon_roll


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## unirdna

What a great jouney! Thanks for sharing all the details, MM. I always enjoy your updates.


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## medicineman

Just some humble one month growth update since tearing down the tank

then:










now:










Not much of changes in terms of layout and plants. 
The crinum grows mad, spots filling in densely (uh.. may have to heavy trim again next month :icon_roll ) and I have lots of new succulent replacement shoots on the uruguayensis, perfect reason to trim all the old, ugly and BBA infested leaves.

Note the whitish cotton-like stuff all over some spots, as I have nuked those persistent BBA that comes along since the old setup. I've had enough of them surviving though actions like more CO2 was taken.


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## medicineman

Latest update feb 2009,

The tank is left to grow as in original plants and layout. They just fill out and gets pruned to keep things in place.

_dial up beware_









So far I'm facing BBA problem which does not cease so easily. Making sure CO2 spreads well, I revert back to fine CO2 mist method utilizing ceramic diffuser in line with powerhead. Now the tank is looking like some carbonated drink whenever CO2 is on.
Other than blaming the lack of CO2 distribution or concentration (the tank use CO2-robbing overflow filter), I suspect another thing, and will share it if my suspicion proves true.


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## medicineman

And so... the tank is overgrown again.
Making good use of long weekend, I did a bit of unrooting job of most plants in the tank. Since most of the part is now ruled by crypts, the job is quite easy.
I decided to swap the massive rock on the left with a wood stump.
Good deep vacuuming, plant trimming and algae disinfection (on anubias and hardy plants) later, and the tank is set.










Most of the original plants are re-used while some others are actually evicted.
Notably is echinodorus uruguayensis by the right side, which is now moved to more spacious pond setup.









The plant is this tank sure take up space and overshade many other shorter plants.

While in exchange a plant from the pond is introduced. Here is a plantlet of red special/indian/whatever (which I happen to lost track name of). As this one grows up, it should be easier to ID later on.


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## sewingalot

medicineman said:


>


Amazing grass skirt you have there! Beautiful plant, wonderful tank. I am simply speechless. I love your journal! roud:


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## CL

Beautiful tank! I truly love the way it looks. Well done! roud:


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## Hedgie

I'm loving this new layout. It's simple, but very nice to look at.


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## asianplanter

very nice looking tank u got there .. big too .. can i know what is that white substrate you are using ? the only white substrate i know is crushed coral sand ..


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## medicineman

It is quite easy to get such. Those white sand is plain silica/quartz. A quite popular and cheap choice here. 1-3mm particle.

Keep away from crushed coral for aquascape, it raise water hardness alter water parameters too much.


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## dizguy

That red one looks like Echinodorus osiris. I had a specimen like that in my first tank a long time ago. Get this, the product label stated it was a low growing foreground plant. It was the biggest thing in my 55.

Thanks for the new pics Medicineman, looking great!


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## chris.rivera3

any updates???


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## CL

lol, Chris. You keep bumping all of the legendary threads of PTF


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## medicineman

Hello.

Sorry for the lack of updates and activity in the forum. I'm tied up this far and quite busy, leaving most of the hardscape layout as is ever since the last rescape.
The tank is not torn down, but is switched to more manageable medium light setup by swapping all the MH lighting into tubes.

Nothing too great deal now. But I will update on latest pic when I have the opportunity


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## lauraleellbp

Welcome back Dedy! I hope your "busy" is a good kind of busy!

And we look forward to seeing updated pics whenever you've got time for them! roud:



And [email protected] chris- are you going through my subscriptions bumping my fav threads? :hihi:


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## cheddar254

Amazing tank! Im blown away! Sorry im too lazy to look through these 31 pages to see what substrate, ferts and c02 you're using. Can you please tell me? I know you're using Silica but are you capping something with it?


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## medicineman

@Cheddar,
This is going to be a long, long postponed reply, for now I am back for a while.
Please be dilligent and dont be too lazy to read up, as much can be learned from this journal and others too.


For you all folks out there, it has been some time and it is not so easy for me to log in anyways, as there seems an auto change in password and I was unable to log in the last few years.

I have a disheartening news to share.
One day some months ago I went back home from a trip out of town when I noticed that the floor around the tank was dreched.

Curses!! My tank finally met the maker for good.
Yes it leaked from the sealant seams. As every long time and experienced aquarium keeper knows, a small leak will tear into a big one.
And one leak will lead to another as the aging process of the stuff is equal.

So I decided to tear down the tank for good and put it into retirement.
The glass pieces are torn apart and put into good use, as I will demonstrate and show later on in this journal.

So short of almost 10 years of service as a tank, but yet so long.
Farewell old tank, and thank you for all the memories so far.


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