# Photoperiod with Co2 + medium/high light



## frrok (May 22, 2011)

I am planning on upgrading my lighting and adding co2 into my non-co2 setup. I am currently running a 13w compact fluorescent over an Ada mini-m with a photoperiod of about 9hours with a 4 hour "siesta" period in between. I am planning on upgrading to a Aquaray mini 400 LED which will give me med/high light in this tank based on PAR readings. Will I have to switch to a straight 8-9 hour photoperiod without the "siesta"?The reason I run the siesta is to save electricity and let co2 build up. (walstad method) as well as so that so that i can have my lights on early in the am before work and when I return from work. I'm nervous by changing so many things at once this will cause problems. any advice?[censored]Any good articles worrying on this subject that you can reccomend?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

No, you will not have to change your photoperiod. It's actually a good idea to not make too many changes at once on a stable tank. That way, if you get results you're not happy with, you know what changes led to those results which can better help you make adjustments.

Having more CO2 than the plants can use due to lower lighting is not a problem. The problem most people run into is the opposite: not having enough CO2 due to increased lighting.

So you can add your CO2 and leave your lighting as it is. Once you feel comfortable, you can increase your photoperiod a little to see how that affects things. If all is going well, you can increase your photoperiod even more. Keep doing this until you get the photoperiod you want or you run into problems. Either way, you'll be able to track what changes created what affects which makes it easier for you to know what other changes you need to make if things go wrong.


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

Ok. Thanks for the advice. I guess I can add the new low light at a high level so it's so much of an abrupt change then slows lower it. Then I guess I can keep my siesta period or no? Will shutting the co2 on and off daily have an affect on the solenoid functionality overtime. That's really what I'm asking. I'm not sure that it's natural to have the light go on and off. I would have to acclimate the plants back to a straight schedule.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Shutting the CO2 on and off should not have any harmful affect on the solenoid. Some people, like me, run their regulators from a pH controller which turns the solenoid on and off multiple times each day.

It isn't natural for the lights to go off in the middle of the photoperiod, but the plants can adjust.

The only issue you'll need to be concerned with is getting the CO2 raised to high levels by the time the lights go on and then back to low levels when the lights go off. There's usually a lag time which will be compounded since you'll be doing it twice. You'll just have to play with it until you figure out when to turn it off and back on to get the levels right.

As far as acclimating the plant to different photoperiods, I wouldn't worry about that. Just change them to whatever photoperiod you want and be done with it. They don't need a slow transition.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

frrok said:


> Ok. Thanks for the advice. I guess I can add the new low light at a high level so it's so much of an abrupt change then slows lower it. *Then I guess I can keep my siesta period or no?* *Will shutting the co2 on and off daily have an affect on the solenoid functionality overtime.* That's really what I'm asking. I'm not sure that it's natural to have the light go on and off. I would have to acclimate the plants back to a straight schedule.


First off, do you understand a siesta period isn't a complete cessation of photosynthesis, just reduced photosynthesis ? Like what would be created on a partially cloudy day or during a rain storm 

There's no sound reason (writ in stone) that co2 needs to be shut off. Nature doesn't stop at night. Some sources of co2 come from chemical processes taking place in ground water or subsurface water before entering into the stream, lake or pond. These processes don't stop at night. Bacteria still metabolize at night releasing co2. Now if you chose to inject 24/7 you'll do so at a reduced rate then you'd do if you use a solenoid on off. This advice is given from decades of experience plus reading science articles on the subject. Like the one linked below



Complexity said:


> Shutting the CO2 on and off should not have any harmful affect on the solenoid. Some people, like me, run their regulators from a pH controller which turns the solenoid on and off multiple times each day.
> 
> *It isn't natural for the lights to go off in the middle of the photoperiod, but the plants can adjust.*
> 
> *The only issue you'll need to be concerned with is getting the CO2 raised to high levels by the time the lights go on and then back to low levels when the lights go off. There's usually a lag time which will be compounded since you'll be doing it twice. *You'll just have to play with it until you figure out when to turn it off and back on to get the levels right.


Agree.

A reason too run co2 24/7. It's really not necessary to get levels low before lights out. Many bodies of water are supersaturated with co2. 
*Carbon dioxide supersaturation in Florida lakes*

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=153685


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

This great advice. Thanks guys. I have a good idea on what to do.


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

Steve001 said:


> First off, do you understand a siesta period isn't a complete cessation of photosynthesis, just reduced photosynthesis ? Like what would be created on a partially cloudy day or during a rain storm
> 
> There's no sound reason (writ in stone) that co2 needs to be shut off. Nature doesn't stop at night. Some sources of co2 come from chemical processes taking place in ground water or subsurface water before entering into the stream, lake or pond. These processes don't stop at night. Bacteria still metabolize at night releasing co2. Now if you chose to inject 24/7 you'll do so at a reduced rate then you'd do if you use a solenoid on off. This advice is given from decades of experience plus reading science articles on the subject. Like the one linked below
> 
> ...


Also, the reason for the shut off is so I don't gas my fish/shrimp.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

frrok said:


> Also, the reason for the shut off is so I don't gas my fish/shrimp.


You did read the article I linked to and understood its implications ? Contrary to what is stated by many running co2 24/7 won't gas fish if you run it at a low enough rate. Use the PH method to determine if you have enough co2. By this observation your PH should be between 6.6-6.9, but no higher than 7. This is assuming your KH/Gh runs in the moderate range. Or your water isn't soft and has adequate buffing capacity. The reason is any ammonia created during biological processes is transformed into the readily usable form by plants ammonium.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Key phrase is "at a low enough rate". 

I think 24/7 is ideal for lower light tanks that don't need co2 but will do well with the addition.


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

Yes. I am readingthe article in the link uou attached and understand what your saying. I'm converting to a higher lighting setup so I'm not sure that running co2 24/7 is an option for me. I'm beginning to do my research into co2 and trying to fully understand what I need to do for my set up, so please exuse my ignorance. I will look up the ph method to test co2. But I will also have a drop checker as a general guide line.


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

I also have soft water. KH 2 GH 2. Generally this is considered a good thing. But should I up KH to up buffering?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

The best guide is your eye. Drop checker give you a ball park... Two hours after the fact. And the ph chart is most accurate when you re constitute RO.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Have at least a kh of 1. You don't need much more than that.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

frrok said:


> Yes. I am readingthe article in the link uou attached and understand what your saying. I'm converting to a higher lighting setup so I'm not sure that running co2 24/7 is an option for me. I'm beginning to do my research into co2 and trying to fully understand what I need to do for my set up, so please exuse my ignorance. I will look up the ph method to test co2. But I will also have a drop checker as a general guide line.


My tank uses natural light with some supplemental fluorescent lighting. The tank, depending on the time of the year, receives some direct sunlight through low light and low light on cloudy days for a portion of the day. At no time do I adjust the rate of co2. 
Supplemental light is provided in addition not in conjunction. The supplemetal light is turned on manually so the level of light and duration varies from day to day.

Keeping track of qualitative co2 content via PH was around a long time before drop checkers. 

Here's 2 recent photos of my tank under the supplemental light.


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