# My leap of faith (aka 220 Gallon Low Tech)



## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

I decided on two large SunSun filters. 

Why? I have a Fluval 306 that I am very irritated at -- two months and the flow is awful. Probably worth another story, but that annoyance meant instead of an FX6, decided on two (or maybe 3) of the 404B's. They are rated at 500+ GPH, seemed more than adequate.










The good news is they came very quickly, were exactly what I expected (plain, simple, relatively cheap materials). But they worked.

Well, almost. I did a 5 gallon bucket test in 1 minute 8 seconds. That's about 278 gph. That's with NO media.



















OK, at least I didn't play Fluval prices for less flow than promised. That might still be adequate, or I can add a third and still be under the FX6 price.

Set the filters aside to work on Substrate.

Lots of discussions, found a good cheap supplier of Ecco-Complete, then finally after a lot of reading here decided on Black Diamond sandblasting sand.

Off to Northern Tools and pick up a bag, and ... it's awful. Fine, very fine. Too fine.

A lot of it floats:










Back to reading... Oh... it comes in lots of sizes. Northern has fine, but Tractor Supply has medium (and fine). Road trip -- nearest TSC with enough is in LaBelle, FL, about an hour or so.

I get 300 pounds and decide on dinner. The Log Cabin there in LaBelle has, we discovered, the best Bar-B-Que I've had south of North Carolina, bar none. Well worth the trip just for that. Anyone in the area who likes real BBQ - go there. Cheap. Really, really good. 

Anyway... 

So what does one do with 300 pounds of sand to wash it? 

My wife has a kiddy pool she let's the dog play in (the big kid is far too big and gone). I fill it up with sand, and wash there. Turn it over and over with a shovel, have it sitting on a slope and let the nasty water run off the side.

For hours....

And hours... 










Note: Not enough hours, it's still dusty in the tank. But eventually.... 










I piled it up and let the top of the pile dry and water run off. Periodically I shovel off the water, then later siphon it. The sand drains very fast, the top 50# or so dries very quickly, then just keep piling it up t get more dry sand. (Did it need to be dry? Probably not, but lighter and easier to spread in the dry tank).

While we were travelling for Substrate, stopped off at Bayshore Concrete and picked out some rocks. After looking at all sorts of possibilities, we decide on a "tumbled wall" theme, and picked up some what I think is pink quartzite: 










Here is after pressure washing. Yes, it's regular and won't look "natural", but I just didn't see truly nature stuff I liked that would let me have enough caves, crannies, etc.

Now ready to start setting stuff in the tank. More on that next....


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

So, time to start adding to the tank.

First, double check square on stand (move it a tiny amount), level... good.










I decided on a heavy rubber mat under the rock instead of egg crate. No dead space, doesn't float, and I doubled it up so it added a bit over an inch in heigth in the center.

And started adding the sand, a bucket at a time. You can tell it's still damp, the white on the edges is condensation.










Now you may have noticed the next big mistake -- the driftwood didn't get tied to anything. But I didn't find that out for several days.

In goes the water... 










It's going to take a while. It's coming straight out of a small RODI system. 

It ended up taking about 3.5 days, though probably almost a day it was turned off (cumulatively). It's a 75 GPD system I think, so it seemed to be running right on track. 

At this point no lights (well, in the shot there's one I borrowed from the other tank), no plumbing... but as it fills I have plenty to do.

So how to arrange it. Here's my trial balloon for flow: 










Two intakes at one end, and two spray bars on the cross supports at 2' and 4', pushing water to the opposite end at the top, hoping to get flow back low in return to the filters.

Not at all sure it will work. But I'm still thinking I might need a third filter.

I am trying hard to avoid a powerhead at the far end to push water back (low), as it will be very visible.

So might as well plumb - PVC is cheap, if it doesn't work out... 

So filters in place: 










Tied in to PVC to the tank:










Over the top (this will be covered later):










Now... I didn't use the SunSun intake or spraybar, mostly because there wasn't a nice, reliable way to connect it to the PVC, but also because it looked a bit frail and small. So I ran 3/4 PVC (the cheap SDR stuff so it's thinner than schedule 40, more flow) into a pond filter for the intake. For $10 each I got a good course media prefilter on it, and lots and lots of intake area, with a screw connection, plus one spare sponge. 

The spray bar is just PVC capped off with holes (1/8th) drilled every 1/2 inch.










Tank isn't full yet but I managed to get the filters to prime and ran them a while to see how it looked. Lots of splash, and noise, so didn't leave it on.










Tank still filling, so I glued up some (but not all) of the pipe, and then painted the part that will show black. 

And.... 










<expletive deleted> driftwood floated up. I've never done this before; the driftwood was sold as "straight out of another freshwater tank, nicely soaked so most of the tannins will be out of it". I never said "will it sink. Maybe it will later.

Wait a while for fill while I start shopping for plants. No real progress there yet.

A bit more to tell to bring it up to current... will get some more pictures tomorrow...

Feel free to let me know if there are more unpleasant surprises you can already tell I'll get!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Ok, in the continuing tales....

I tweaked the plumbing angles a bit and got all four lights in place, more or less where I wanted them.










The idea is not to have a canopy. Not sure how that will work, but the low profile and tall tank and stand hopefully will make it visually nice.

Here's the side view: 










That's from my eye level (I'm 6'), so there's no light glare unless you are taller. I will likely cover some of the open water with plastic or glass to cut down on evaporation, but with luck I only need a 8" +/- cabinet to cover the plumbing, not the top of the tank. We'll see.

Last night though was tough with the drift wood. It won't sink.

Try #1: Rock and fishing line -- decided I didn't like the look of the rock, didn't even tie it off.

Try #2: Pantyhose filled with gravel as a weight, in the substrate (planned to cover it), tied off with fishing line. Looked like keystone cops, with my wife, trying to tie it off, and just gave up. It's too float-y, too un-even, and every time it shifts a bit (it rubs on 3 sides of the tank) one side popped up.

Try #3: Pantyhose filled with gravel in the stump. The good news is it worked. The bad news is it looks awful.










Suggestions welcomed. I HOPE it will eventually sink on its own. It is a used piece, was in another freshwater tank, was reportedly sunk but dried out in the resellers warehouse. 

If I end up having to leave it like this -- lots and lots of moss. Will something like Flame Moss grow directly on the nylon? By the way, I dumped a whole bucket of substrate on top of it, and 98% of it just ran off. You can see all that was left.

The RIGHT way would be a plate under the driftwood, glued/screwed on, plate under the substrate. but it's pretty late now for that.

Anyway... going to start cycling today I think, some media movement and ammonia then look for plants.

Corrections, comments, criticism, etc. always welcome. This is now up to date in real time, so any help is more actionable now.


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## AnonAnona (Jul 2, 2014)

Really enjoyed reading all that! I love long posts and seeing all the ins and outs of what your doing (that's sounds creepier than intended) :icon_roll

I like the crumbling wall effect that you've got going on in the left side of the tank... Reminds me of a tomb raider scene or a the lost city of Atlantis :icon_mrgr

I too am suffering from a floating piece of driftwood although mine is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller (8" long). I've managed to partially bury it in the substrate and then pin it down with another (heavier) piece of driftwood. I'm not sure if this info helps but perhaps you could mix the stones and driftwood together and use them to pin it down? Although that would mess up your aquascaping plans I guess. Failing that, wait until it waterlogs? That does mean having a bag of gravel sat in there for a while though :icon_cry:

Good luck!
Rad91


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Radiation91 said:


> Failing that, wait until it waterlogs? That does mean having a bag of gravel sat in there for a while though :icon_cry:


Thanks.

I wish it would be an answerable question "how long will it take" but I've seen the thousands of times that's been asked and the standard answer "days, weeks, it may never sink".


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

What fish are you planning to keep? 

From a aquascaping stand point I don't really like the brick. But you may have a plan for them.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> What fish are you planning to keep?
> 
> From a aquascaping stand point I don't really like the brick. But you may have a plan for them.


Still working on that, but community tank, definitely a good sized school of Congo Tetras, a cleanup crew of pleco and cat probably. Some other schooling fishes I think.

I wasn't crazy about the rectangular shape of the rock either. I wanted a center mound though, since the tank is going to be viewed from both sides. I wanted fish swimming by to be seen mostly against the rock, not against the living room sofa.

But I also was paranoid about weight. Initially we were going to use Feather Rock, and build a fairly large, somewhat thin center wall. But too many people cautioned against it because of how sharp it was, and might damage some fish. Plus I had no idea how to sculpt it (I know how to cut/drill it, but I don't know how to make it pretty). 

All the more natural rock was either ugly in a pile (and didn't leave suitable size holes), or I had to pile very carefully and probably glue (was not keen on that, because I was not certain I could hide the silicon well), and/or were very unstable. 

I did see a few very large pieces of rock, but I could not even pick them up on dry land, wasn't about to try to set them in the tank. So I felt the limit of weight to position was in the 40-50 pound range (standing on stool, bending over, reaching down 30" to glass), which isn't a very big rock. 

Long, lame excuse, but we took the easy way out. The color is nice -- it's got some pinks. I didn't want anything to compete with plant/fish color, but it's complementary.

But I don't like the "tumbled wall", but it is where we ended up after two days of looking.

Any suggestions how to make what I do have prettier?

Bump: Update: 

Moved a bit of media from my existing tank over. I had doubled it up about a week ago, and took the new media, so it's not well infested but hopefully a bit. Also took one piece of old floss and replaced it.

Added about 1L matrix to each filter in one basket. I'll probably add another basket of matrix later in each, but wanted to keep lots of mechanical filter in to try to get the water more clear. 

Added about 200 ml of Microbe Lift Special Blend. Not sure how much it helped but LFS strongly recommended it, and it did seem to help clear up my small tank when it was new. Smells like bottled sewage, so it must be good.  

25 ml of ammonia (10%). Let the cycle begin.

I'm also struggling with pH. I mixed Alkaline and Acid buffers (from Seachem) in 2:1 ratio. An hour or so later it was 6.4, 24 hours later it was 7.6, and today it is 8.0. There's no limestone anywhere, it's quartzite or something similar, strong pressure washed. Sandblasting sand should be inert. No idea what's happening there.

KH also ended up a bit high, I aimed for 6, I got 9. So something went wrong in the initial dosing somewhere. But I did it very carefully by weight on a gram scale. 

GH also high, I added Equilibrium to aim for 5, got 8. Now that's possible (though a bit extreme) as I used 220 gallons, but with rocks and sand and driftwood I"m probably more like 180 or so. 

But am baffled by the ph going so high. Any ideas? 

PS. Here's the actual dosing: Fresh RODI water, 293 grams Equilibrium, 264 Grams Alkaline Buffer, 132 grams Acid buffer. Alkaline and Equilibrium added to filter #1, run for about 30 minutes while I added Acid to filter #2, and it started. Total run time now about 36 hours. No CO2 injection or such, just filtration agitation.


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## Lilyth88 (Jun 30, 2014)

Subbed.


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

how much flow loss are you getting with the cansiters? that is quite a few 90s.

as far as your rock conundrum, check out this thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156103&highlight=

Plantbrain is also a seller. If you are interested, I don' think it would hurt to ask if he has any on hand. It would probably solve your weight vs hidey holes vs natural aesthetics concern.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

pandacory said:


> how much flow loss are you getting with the cansiters? that is quite a few 90s.
> 
> as far as your rock conundrum, check out this thread:
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156103&highlight=
> ...


Thanks for the pointer, will look more carefully later (about to be leave for dinner). 

re: Flow loss in 90's -- I tried hard to use an equal number of left and right turns, doesn't that end up the same as straight pipe?  

Yes, it is, but short of just a straight nozzle at the end, not sure what else to do. I'm seeing decent water movement most places. I appear to have a dead surface space between the first spray bar and the intakes -- makes sense, it's trapped space. That's where the 3rd filter would go I guess. I'm not sure about low level movement though, whether the water is going down deeply enough before making its way back.

And thanks for the suggestion. I did buy a few plants today from three places, one hobbiest who sells (of course by far the best deal and best looking but he only had one kind), two prepackaged from Petsmart to see how they do, and two from a LFS that looked good. That will keep me occupied for while. I added some ferts to a QT for now to keep them happy overnight, and planting tomorrow.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

The rock you added could be driving pH up.

Pull it out and dry it.and pour vinager on it and watch to see if it sizzles, if it does than its not suitable for aquariums

Bump: A big school of Congo tetras will look awesome!!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> The rock you added could be driving pH up.
> 
> Pull it out and dry it.and pour vinager on it and watch to see if it sizzles, if it does than its not suitable for aquariums
> 
> Bump: A big school of Congo tetras will look awesome!!


Yeah, I got a few of those in another tank, and I love them -- incredibly fast, makes it hard to feed the little serpae tetras as those things are so much more aggressive at eating. And great colors.

Anyway... I said quartzite, but I think it's quartz. Regardless, just to be sure (since Geology was taken long enough ago I think we are in a different eon) I pulled it out and put Muriatic acid on it - no fizz.

I use Muriatic acid for the test as a lot of limestone-like rocks won't react to vinegar enough to notice. 

So it's not the rocks. 

I just did another test and it's at 8.3 now, so still rising. I have no clue what's going on. I could just add more acid buffer I guess, but I'd really like to understand.

I've got a very white bacterial bloom going on -- can that change PH?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Just to be complete I also took a handful of the sand and test it with Muriatic acid -- no fizz.

I also have rubber in the tank under the rock. To be safe I had a piece of that sitting in a glass of water since before it went into the tank, to make sure I saw no oil film, etc. (and I haven't). I tested that water and it's actually lower than tap water, so it has gone down while sitting with the rubber in it.

All that's left is driftwood, and the Seachem stuff I added, and air (no injected CO2, just surface agitation from the filters). And the bacterial bloom.

Somehow I still blame the driftwood, just not sure how it can be.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Man outstanding log! I can't help much with the rising PH. As for the stones I'm not crazy about them like that, but take a few and cover them in Flame moss and cover that with a hair net, then stick some Anubias Nana petit and a couple ferns in there and I think it will look killer. 
It doesn't help for now, but perhaps next time just do a 50/50 mix of tap and RO and see where it is. Adding all the buffers and such sounds complicated. I've got two water Chemistry's amongst all of my tanks... Inert sand with driftwood and DIY C02 and a PH of 7 - 7.2 or aragonite sand and cichlid sand and lace rock for a PH OF 8 - 8.2. All water comes from the same tap.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

The Dude said:


> It doesn't help for now, but perhaps next time just do a 50/50 mix of tap and RO and see where it is. Adding all the buffers and such sounds complicated.


Actually to me it SOUNDED simple because it looked quantitative, just do 2:1 and presto. My tap water is all over the place, and I really made a mess of the first tank, and still am working with RODI water changes to get it back down and keep it under 8.

Not at all sure what's going on here. I'm just going to proceed for a few days and see what happens, I think.

---- 

OK, this is impatience at work. I took a tour today and picked up some plants from 3 places - one hobbiest, one chain, one LFS (two other LFS' plants were just awful). 

So here's the first attempt at planting. I'm fully expecting to have problems due to the PH and other issues, but this is going to be some trial and error.

First I dosed with Flourish Comprehensive and Iron. No Excel, wasn't sure how that would work especially newly planted. There's also a bit of Osmecote Plus under the substrate.

Here's the first -- it's an Anubis Hastifolia that I liked the looks of and looked healthy (that was at the LFS). This is in a lower light area, and guards the entry to one of the caves in the rock. Two groups (4 and 3) with a root tab in the middle of each group. I hope the rhizome is in the right depth, it wasn't pronounced and horizontal like I've seen before, just a knot.










Not at all sure if this will survive (say) a catfish living in there. I've only seen a Raphael on a thicker substrate (ecco-complete) so he doesn't dig much, but I understand in sand they do (I do have a frying pan if one gets too big and tears up too many plants).

Incidentally these photos are better than the tank looks (I'm a photographer so I cheat). The water is very white-cloudy, though the stringy stuff has mostly settled out, so maybe it's on the downhill. 

This is some type of wisteria, also the LFS. It was really long, some I trimmed up a few inches. It also had both types of leaves, I wasn't sure if I should trim the air-produced leaves? This area is around the stump, and in a higher light area (plus they are high). I hope to get a lot of growth around the stump and hide the ugly pantyhose eventually. Plus this is toward the end with plumbing, so when you look from the far end I want to see plants, not pipes.










Final one for tonight (I have two more from the chain in packages that should keep). This is some kind of Ludwigia that had beautiful reds. I don't know if I can keep those growing in my light, but I put this squarely under the doubled area of fixtures so it's the best chance. It's planted in three bunches with a root tab in the middle. I just shoved the stem a couple inches into the sand, they were all twisted from floating around in the guys tank for a while. These were from a hobbiest, and by far the best deal I got today.










That's it for tonight. Planting in a 30" deep tank means a lot of water on the floor, by the way. Fortunately it's tile.


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## greaser84 (Feb 2, 2014)

Some driftwood will never sink. I have a piece I've had for a very long time, it floats and it will probably always float. Here's a picture of mine and how I was able to get it too sink and conceal how I did it. I'm sure there are plenty of different ways to do it. I simply zip tied a rock to it. First pic is the view from the front. Second Pic is view from the back.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

greaser84 said:


> Some driftwood will never sink. I have a piece I've had for a very long time, it floats and it will probably always float. Here's a picture of mine and how I was able to get it too sink and conceal how I did it. I'm sure there are plenty of different ways to do it. I simply zip tied a rock to it. First pic is the view from the front. Second Pic is view from the back.


Nice. I might get a couple more similar works to mine, extend the "broken wall" a bit under the stump, and maybe do the same -- zip tie it to a couple roots. The problem is balance -- it has maybe 10-15 pounds upward force now, so I need to tie it at least on two if not three points around the perimeter to keep it down fully.

Thanks for the example. 

---- 

Oh... one more interesting thing -- I dosed enough ammonia to get to 3ppm, and this evening it's barely readable (before plants). Not sure what's up with that. I did jump start with a tiny amount of media from another tank, but I would not have thought it was enough to make a dent that quick. Going to bring it back up again.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

So today is more plants. I decided to bring down the PH a bit artificially, so added one dose (one tablespoon) of Acid Buffer. We'll see tomorrow if it help. 

The other plants are not dead yet.  

So I had purchased some Dwarf Hair Grass from Top Fin from Pet Smart (also some Annubis)










They are pricey, $7.99 each, but this is a grand experiment so wanted to see how this tissue cultured stuff works in comparison to others.

They came in a clump in each package. They are packed in some kind of gel, it's not very visible when you open it, but you can feel it. I decided to sort it out in water (based on a You Tube recommendation). Most planting instructions show pieces several inches long, with well distinguished roots. This stuff is very tiny, and much of it (once you separate) is actually hard to tell which is the root (well, not really, but when you get a bunch all going every which way, it's not easy to sort so they are all roots down).










One word of caution. The gel makes a MESS in a tank. Definitely clean it off thoroughly somewhere else. i did this in a QT, and it had little translucent globes everywhere. But being in water did make it easier to sort.










So this is what I ended up with, in arbitrarily sized groups.










Two packages actually goes quite a long way if pulled apart. I wonder if Top Fin expects you to plant it as a glob, however. Anyway... 

Short handled tweezers in hand (since I had no long ones yet, they are coming in to a LFS soon), shirt off, towel in hand, I planted. One by one. Tedious, very. Shutting off the pumps helped, I could see better.

I'm planting in sand -- based on what I saw in videos, I just shoved much of it under the sand, definitely some of the non-root portion, in fact probably most have the majority of the length in the sand. I have no idea if that's correct, but the "roots" on these little bitty plants are so short they will not stay in sand unless a lot of the green in also pushed in.

Here's what it looks like. The goal was to have some low grasses at this end, nothing that will obstruct the view from that end. The two packages wrapped about a foot around on each side, so maybe 6" by 3-4' linearly the way I planted it. 

I do not have high hopes for this -- it is the darkest part of the tank (well, other than right under the stump), and I know carpet type plants do poorly in low light.

I also ran out of root tabs, need to order some, and scatter a few in this. I was going to pick up some from the local LFS, but they are 50% higher than online. I don't mind paying a bit -- even the tax -- but really? 50%? 




















I was going to do the Crypts, but got quite tired of pending down for that many clumps, so tomorrow is another day.

As always, advice welcome.

PS. Water still cloudy but long stringy stuff is gone, and I think maybe, just maybe a bit less cloudy. Doing nothing about that.

PPS. Oh... forgot to test Ammonia... off to do that and dose if needed.


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## Tributary (Jun 30, 2014)

The DHG looks great! What a cool project.

What type of lights are you running? It looks like Current Satellite Plus from the photos. I would worry that will be too low light to penetrate down to that grass... (at least that was my experience with a 125 gallon)...


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Tributary said:


> The DHG looks great! What a cool project.
> 
> What type of lights are you running? It looks like Current Satellite Plus from the photos. I would worry that will be too low light to penetrate down to that grass... (at least that was my experience with a 125 gallon)...


They are LED+'s, four x 48". And yes, that's a big worry whether they will be bright enough for any of what I'm doing. But I really liked them (have one on a 45G tank).

I'm optimistic -- with two the light at the bottom is visually as bright as one is at the bottom of the 45G (18"), as measured with a camera meter. That's not the same as usable power of course.

Time will tell. I got four cheaper than two x 36" e-series, which might be more appropriate, but two would cast a lot of shadows. And four e-Series are awfully expensive. 

And I really wanted the toy-effect of remote control and adjustable colors. Totally not needed for growth of course, but this is all a toy, right?


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## Lyfeoffishing (Jun 14, 2014)

Oh fun I wish I could do a huge tank like this it would definitely happen once I get my own place right in the living room!!! 

Sub to the thread and look forward to seeing how it turns out for you. I enjoy watching people do builds to help me learn as my 55 was my first go. And a 60p is in my near future. 

Best of luck and I will be watching this closely. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DayOlder (Jul 12, 2014)

Love your journal. Just read it up to date. There is so much to be learned from all this.
Thank you for sharing and the time you put into it.


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## Portland Amateur Aquarist (Jan 6, 2014)

Thanks so much for sharing your progress, I can tell it's gonna be amazing. The setup is my favorite part of the hobby, so enjoy!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

OK, time for an update as I am in a bit of a holding pattern.

The good news is the white (probably) bacterial cloud is gone. Just vanished. I assume whatever it was eating exhausted, it died.

And the tank smelled awfully for about half a day -- sour, stale laundry type smell (not sulfide, more musty). I did nothing, but it went away later. Dying bacteria?

But something is wrong with the water chemistry. One as mentioned is the PH is still high. I added now two doses of Acid Buffer (Seachem) to try to lower it down into the 7's. I still do not know the cause, but will does and check before I do the first big water change.

Now the bigger problem. I dosed for 3ppm Ammonia. The next day I had barely detectable (I suspect that test was wrong somehow), so I added a bit more, enough collectively to bring it up to 5ppm (but I thought I was bringing it back to 3ppm). 

And it zoomed to a bit north of 8ppm (off the scale, but I test now by diluting the tank water with 50% RODI water, then doubling the reading). 

I've had people recommend to do a huge water change, but a variety of reasons keep me from doing it, mainly I have to make a lot of water for that and wasn't quite prepared yet expecting my first change to be 30 days or so from now.

So I waited a day (no change, maybe a bit worse), and decided to try adding Ammo Chips, aka Zeolite. I put it into a HOB filter (Aqueon 75) that I had lying around (horrible, horribly noisey filter but it moves a lot of water) to see if I could take the ammonia out without a huge water change.

My goal was to get the Ammonia down around 2ppm or so, and stop -- if it went back up, the Ammonia was being generated by something in the tank (and since nothing live was there, except plants, that was a real problem). If it then stayed the same or started down, I write it off to some kind of ham fisted initial dosing and move on.

I also got a quick circulation test, that was unplanned: 










This was API Ammo Chips, and it's VERY dusty. Should have known that but didn't pay attention. The shot above was about 30 seconds after, and this from the other side: 










was about 40 seconds later, and shows a pretty uniform coverage, which I'll take as good news that the flow is pretty complete. Not that I intended this test.

After about 4 hours I tested the water again, and it seems definitely lower, maybe 5ppm or so (i.e. a bit darker than 2, doubled). The greens start looking alike, but it sure seemed lower.

The HOB actually wasn't very full of the Zeolite, so I bought some more (Petco this time) and washed it thoroughly in RODI water and added another 1/3 liter or so.

I didn't add more plants yet, waiting for this to work out.

Anyway... it could be the Ammonia is coming from the death of the bacteria bloom (though I've never heard of that), it could be it is soming from the Osmocote+ I have in the substrate -- that I've seen lots and lots of postings on (now that I look for it). But it's high enough it may be killing the plants, so waiting now to see if this band-aide of Zeolite will work.

Oh... I ran out of DI media, which is one reason I'm not overly interested in doing a water change, that and it will take 2 days to make enough water for a real dent in the ammonia levels (and I have only storage for 80 gallons, which might not be enough if I have to do it with pure water changes). Which would mean having the tank half-full, and probably no filters running, for a while - not great either.

And no, I don't want to use tap + prime to keep going, I'm having enough unknowns right now, and our tap water is awful, don't want to introduce more unknowns.

A new filter ordered, I'm going to move my (very low flow) Fluval 306 to this tank, just to add a bit more, primarily surface agitation in the 3rd section that has none now, and put another SunSun on my 45 G tank where I'm surprised the fish are getting any oxygen. The flow is down to a quarter or so what it was new (despite several cleanings). Piece of junk -- I plan to replace it, then take it apart and thoroughly test to see if I can tell the problem. 2 months old!!! And people decry "you are buying bad quality with SunSun" - at least there I'm not paying for high quality. Fluval I did.

Another update when there's news....


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

OK, it's going to be a waiting game for a while. My ammonia is still over 8ppm, the Ammo Chips are not doing much (or if they are, the source is rising faster). 

I got some DI media and am making water into an 80G tank, plus I can put another 10 or so in buckets. My dilemma here is whether to tear the tank down and start over (with the idea the problem is in the substrate, namely the Omsocote), or try to dilute the ammonia enough with water changes that the cycle can proceed.

So I put four little Omsocote+ spheres in a glass of about a pint of RODI water:










I did not cover with substrate, but if I see a sharp rise in Ammonia then I'll pretty much condemn the Omsocote+ as the source of my problem. If I see just a trace... well, no idea. But at this point my priority is less to make the ammonia go away, than to determine if it's accidental (something I did in dosing), or being continually generated by something in the tank. And I can keep cycling -- the 8ppm is a bit high but probably won't kill the BB. It may kill the plants, but if I have to pull out the substrate and redo, they are dead anyway.


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

I would recommend you take your anubias out of the substrate and attach them to the driftwood. I cannot tell if you buried the rhizome or not. If you did, it will eventually kill the anubia. I love your DIY dual spray bars.


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## Lyfeoffishing (Jun 14, 2014)

Linwood said:


> OK, it's going to be a waiting game for a while. My ammonia is still over 8ppm, the Ammo Chips are not doing much (or if they are, the source is rising faster).
> 
> I got some DI media and am making water into an 80G tank, plus I can put another 10 or so in buckets. My dilemma here is whether to tear the tank down and start over (with the idea the problem is in the substrate, namely the Omsocote), or try to dilute the ammonia enough with water changes that the cycle can proceed.
> 
> ...



Yeah I heard osmocote can do that if you put too much into the substrate. I actually just made root tabs instead of placing directly into substrate and hopefully that will release the ammo slower. I haven't had a reading of ammo yet and it's been about a month of using it now. And I have 12 or so tabs in a 55 gallon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

ForensicFish said:


> I would recommend you take your anubias out of the substrate and attach them to the driftwood. I cannot tell if you buried the rhizome or not. If you did, it will eventually kill the anubia. I love your DIY dual spray bars.


I did not bury the rhizome. I was hoping to cover the driftwood (which is in a lower light area) with something like flame moss, i.e. something a bit more of a complete cover. These Anubis have really nice, fully formed leaves, more like a land plant.

Won't they be OK in sand with the rhizome out? 



Lyfeoffishing said:


> Yeah I heard osmocote can do that if you put too much into the substrate. I actually just made root tabs instead of placing directly into substrate and hopefully that will release the ammo slower. I haven't had a reading of ammo yet and it's been about a month of using it now. And I have 12 or so tabs in a 55 gallon


I used one of the little cups that come in the bottle, eyeball guess a bit less than a tablespoon, in the whole tank bottom. I really went light.

I also put quite a few Seachem root tabs, but I assume they are not the problem.

I'm starting to doubt that is the issue. The glass test so far is showing zero (though it's only been about 6 hours, so that may be way too soon). 

I also dragged out my big 80 gallon water tank and found it was only 65 gallons - so much for my memory. It's about a third full. Still haven't decided what to do. A part of me wants to tear it all up, fix the floating driftwood properly, remove the rubber mat (just in case) in favor of egg crate. But it's probably a lot harder getting that substrate out than putting it in. :icon_sad:

Another possibility that I'm leaning toward is removing about 100 gallons, then I can put about 75 back (65 + 2 buckets), and the rest should make up over about 12 hours or so, and I think the filters can stay off that long without harm to any developing bacteria. Actually I can probably run them part of that time, it will just be noisey.

That's a lot of water to waste if the problem isn't solved, but it's a lot easier (other than my impatience) than yanking everything.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

I say just give it some time. I cycled all of my tanks with 8 ppm ammonia. I kept it at 8ppm for a week and then it dropped to 3ppm, kept it at 3ppm until I saw nitrite. From there the cycle went fast, in about a week. When the ammonia and nitrite dropped. I added 3ppm ammonia and it was gone within 24hrs, nitrate was the only one showing. You are dealing with a large amount of water. Fix the driftwood, secure everything and it get running. Give it a few weeks and plan out your back up options while you wait. And figure out your r/o storage and easy water change options. Don't rush or make a hasty decision.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, today was interesting.

I work up to a minor flood, the storage tank I was filling was leaking around a spigot on it. Just a bit. I (half asleep) started tightening it, not realizing it had a reverse thread. Now I had a more major flood. My wife came to help and and we got it mostly sorted but it was still leaking a bit. This forced my hand -- if I was going to rebuild the tank, I would have to discard this water. Seemed a waste.

I did a quick couple of water tests though -- the ammonia was still 8ppm or so, about the same. My test with the Osmocote showed 0.5ppm, so it was rising, but slowly. What did that mean? I think the Osmocote was contributing to the ammonia, but it doesn't seem strongly enough to be the real problem.

Regardless, what I decided to do was pull about 100 gallons out of the tank, and put what I had stored up (about 70) back in, and make new water for the rest. I did that, in a comedy of errors - the water pump I was using to fill the tank from buckets would not pump from the floor (only about 12" up -- and the tank was on the floor). Lots of similar issues.

But it's done. The Ammonia is now at about 3ppm.

Now to see what it all looks like after sitting over night. If the ammonia is growing -- time to pull it apart, as there's nothing normal that should be generating more. If it's stable or dropping, either I dosed wrongly and started all this, or whatever caused it is over.

There is a cautionary aspect of this for people starting with bigger tanks, as I was - nothing scales well. If a bucket has a slow leak you pour it into a new bucket, or carry it outside. Can't do that with a 65 gallon tank.

My pump that worked great to fill my 45G (I just pump from a 5G bucket on the floor) can't pump up the extra 2' or so. Just wouldn't do it -- it drained the tank to about 12" above the floor and just stopped.

And siphoning out 100 gallons -- I started with a 1/2 tube as usual; that was very slow, so switched to a regular 5/8ths garden hose. Stretched it down about 12' to the canal and it still seemed to take forever. 

And mixing -- 1 teaspoon of equilibrium and a quarter of acid, a half of alkaline -- easy to mix in a 5G bucket. Try 10 times that amount. Can't do it in a tank -- half the equilibrium will just end up in the bottom. Can't mix it in the tank really. Ended up mixing it in several 5G buckets and adding over time as I pumped in the big tank to try to keep the dilution about right in the tank.

Nothing scales well. Planning is key. I clearly needed more.

No pictures now (during the interesting part, like the flood, too busy). More news tomorrow.


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## subcontrariety (May 26, 2011)

Is it possible that something got stuck in your driftwood when the previous owner removed it from their tank? A fish corpse or just dried up debris stuck inside it might be decaying now that it is in water again, raising your ammonia levels. Also, have you tested the water with the rubber matting? Could be that some sort of soluble material is leeching out and breaking down - wouldn't be visible as a film but could still affect parameters. Some additives might also affect pH. Just some thoughts - and maybe you've already tested these ideas and I didn't catch it in your notes. 
Your setup is off to a lovely start - I look forward to seeing it progress!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

subcontrariety said:


> Is it possible that something got stuck in your driftwood when the previous owner removed it from their tank? A fish corpse or just dried up debris stuck inside it might be decaying now that it is in water again, raising your ammonia levels. Also, have you tested the water with the rubber matting? Could be that some sort of soluble material is leeching out and breaking down - wouldn't be visible as a film but could still affect parameters. Some additives might also affect pH. Just some thoughts - and maybe you've already tested these ideas and I didn't catch it in your notes.
> Your setup is off to a lovely start - I look forward to seeing it progress!


It's nothing large. I confess -- I did not wash it. A mistake, didn't think of it until done (because it had come out of a freshwater tank I knew no salt, etc., but the obvious biological issues did not occur). So I don't know.

I am pretty confident I have the ph issue sorted, at least somewhat. I dosed the RODI water with Acid and Alkaline buffer in a 1:2 ratio, which Seachem says gives 7.0. However, what they don't say is ratio by volume, or ratio by weight. I used weight.

Their dosing, in teaspoons, if you do the math gives a 8:7 ratio with acid being heavier by 10%. I took a half cup of each and got about 35% heavier.

This means if you does by weight you will under-represent acid significantly, how significantly depends a bit on measure accuracy and in particular packing.

Well, in subsequent correspondence with them they said in affecting the ratio to use volume. This is despite a posted answer that says for each chemical individually you are more accurate using weight. 

So that's my theory on ph -- I used weight, the Acid buffer was substantially under-represented by 35%. That would give me a bit over a 3:1 ratio, which isn't on their chart but would by interpolation put it in the high 7's. 

Why I saw 8.4 I can't quite explain, but at least a substantial portion of the difference I think I can.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

The test I was running with Osmocote+ in a glass of water -- after about 44 hours, the Ammonia reading is rising, now at 1 ppm.

The new tank this morning however is showing promise. The test says the ammonia is down slightly at 2.0, though I suspect that's testing error from the 3 I got yesterday. But at least it does not look higher. The rest of the chemistry looks decent - PH about 7.6, KH at 6 (which as my target) and GH 8 (which is a bit over the target, but I wonder if all the stuff that washed off the Zeolite contributed to that.

I turned off the Zeolite last evening as well, I want to see what the natural process is in the tank. I am suspicious it was not really doing anything (at least not rapidly enough to notice), but this way I will know for sure.

Now off to some furniture work while the tank cooks a bit more.


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## Lyfeoffishing (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm so happy I don't have to mess around with my water. I hope your water comes around and you figure it out as your tank will be beautiful when settled. 

55 gallon community


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Here's a suggestion for those with taller tanks if you have a Harbor Freight nearby.










$1.99. It's plastic, it takes a bit of care with squeezing to move smoothly, but it's a heck of a deal. 36" +/- long you can stay dry, and I found I could (with a little practice) plant things in sand. The end is wider than tweezers, even the plastic aquarium long-reach ones I've seen, so it disturbs more dirt, but if you shake and twist a bit you can retract it leaving dirt around the roots.

But regardless -- for $2 it's handy just for picking up small things you drop. It's not for 10 pound rocks -- not secure enough, but anything light works great.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

The tank's presence in the living room is predicated on the stand eventually looking like furniture. I can build strong, but never really tried pretty, so this is going to be interesting.

I'm trying first to do panels inside of a frame. I gave my wife a choice of oak boards and what I think was some light poplar (most importantly about $30 a stick vs $8). I let her pick the stain, showed her the boards. You already can guess which one she picked.

So... I routed a slot on the back (not shown) for the panel and then tried to cut miter cuts and glue it together. I was a bit lazy -- no biscuit or dowels in the joints. I don't have a biscuit cutter, nor a dowling jig, and I think trying to free hand it will make the alignment worse than the lack of strength in a straight glue job.

So with a cheap frame clamp in hand, my first attempt:










The good news is it stayed square and the glue set up nicely over night, the bad news is the strap-type clamp asymmetrically applied pressure, so the bottom had less than the top (which was at the middle of the strap. A couple boards twisted in a bit, opening a crack on the back side. But it's not too bad, a filled it with glue and moved on because this panel is in the least visible spot, and it's also an experiment to see if my wife will even accept the style.

And now for colors.... 










The initial choices of stain colors did not sit well when seen on wood (I was smart enough not to stain the assembled frame yet, not smart enough not to do the one piece of panel board).

So at this point we have all combinations of stain, and sit-time, and none are making her happy. 

So off later today to Lowes and see if they have a better supply of wood than Home Depot, and/or for some more small cans of stain.

Note I only bought wood for one panel (I'll need 7) as I've been married long enough to know this may take a few iterations.

The interesting part is how I'm going to fit the panels together so 4 of them are removable, without doubling the vertical boards between, and without cutting them in half so the joint looks funny. I'm thinking of having 2 of the 3 panels NOT have a board on one side, but the plywood extending, and literally slide under the board it is adjacent to. That may take more experimentation. I'm also considering making the entire 3-panel sides removable as one unit, but not sure if they will be stiff enough.

This furniture making stuff -- for someone who's most finished work is usually a pressure treated wood deck -- is going to be interesting.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

While I'm on the subject of discoveries, wanted to show what I am using for intake. I didn't particularly like what Sunsun had (seemed small and dinky), nor Fluval (on the x06 series I saw) as it was white and ugly. Though Fluval had a check valve that made priming much easier.

I found these in the pond section of Home Depot: 










That's 3/4 PVC and a male adapter hooking it up, it fits directly into the fitting that comes with the filter (though it only goes in a couple threads). It's nice and black so unobtrusive, and has a huge prefilter screen that fits nicely (and a spare with it). It was something like $9 for the filter and maybe another $1 for the PVC fittings and pipe.

What I like about this also in a large tank (wouldn't do in a small one as it's just so big) is very low flow velocity into the intake. That plus the screen means less uptake of small snails, shrimp, fry (if I ever have any), etc. And of course a lot longer before it clogs up due to surface area.

I'll have three of these all across one end, and then piping to distribute the outgoing water to each third of the tank at the top with a spraybar in each. The last (the one closest to the tank end) will be my old Fluval 306, which is not doing well in my 45G due to low flow. But I'm hoping I can clean it, and get enough flow to disturb the water surface in that third, even if it's not doing a lot of filtering. More on that soon - the SunSun just came in to replace it on the 45G.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Unless you plan on permanently using them I wouldn't use buffers.
I would let the tank mature for 90 days(at least) and then check the PH/GH as it is
with no buffers. Then I would find a suitable nylon filter media bag and use a measured amount of Peat in it in one of the filters. Changing that Peat monthly would regulate the perams naturally and be much more economical than chemicals. Just adjust the quantity of Peat according to needs.
I find that drilling holes in my driftwood helps sink it. 1/8" holes look natural in driftwood anyway and some hobby shops carry longer drill bits.
A couple of pieces of Nana Pettet(will look up how to spell that one day) stuck between the rocks will multiply and I would think the light for them would be correct, especially to avoid algae on the leaves.
I would sugest mini Fissiden on the rocks but you might hate me later down the line as it seems to break off pieces and new clumps of it just seem to sprout up in places that I know I didn't plant it all over my tank. That would be hard to remove at that depth.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Raymond S. said:


> Unless you plan on permanently using them I wouldn't use buffers.
> I would let the tank mature for 90 days(at least) and then check the PH/GH as it is
> with no buffers. Then I would find a suitable nylon filter media bag and use a measured amount of Peat in it in one of the filters.


I'm using RODI water. I would expect, certainly in that 90 days, but maybe later, that lack of buffers would make for wide PH swings, e.g. day to night from CO2 cycle shifting, or most anything. At least that's what I keep reading. Am I missing something? 

These chemicals are not terribly expensive. I'd love to cut the cost, but I'm not sure how to do anything quantitative with peat. Actually, I'm not even sure where to get peat.



Raymond S. said:


> A couple of pieces of Nana Pettet(will look up how to spell that one day) stuck between the rocks will multiply and I would think the light for them would be correct, especially to avoid algae on the leaves.
> I would sugest mini Fissiden on the rocks but you might hate me later down the line as it seems to break off pieces and new clumps of it just seem to sprout up in places that I know I didn't plant it all over my tank. That would be hard to remove at that depth.


I'll look into those. I am really looking to find things that spreads and grows (even if a bit wildly) in low light. I'm not looking for a sculptured garden so much as lots of green (etc) everywhere.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

*And we have agitation!*

Hopefully the final bit of plumbing is now down. I received my 3rd SunSun 404B filter, but this one was destined to go on my 45G where I felt I had inadequate surface agitation, and no desire for a air pump. 

So the fluval goes to the new tank, the 404B goes to the 45G.

The goal here with the Fluval on the big tank was obviously not a lot of flow (I probably had that with the others), but to give me surface agitation for the 3rd section of the tank. For this I built another home-made spray bar, but this one I did differently. Besides being a bit shorter to fit within the other plumbing, it needed to accomodate maybe a third of the flow rate, and still spray pretty hard. 

So in this case I used Schedule 80 pipe (which is thicker) and much smaller holes (.1 inch) and fewer of them due to the width and the "T" in the middle (which I did not drill). 

The result seems to work well. Here's the spray bar itself, from the top: 










And here's the result, as seen from the bottom looking toward the top of the tank water. The two 404B's are agitating the sections to the photo-left, and the Fluval to the photo-right.










I am hoping not to loose too much more flow still in the Fluval (if I do it will be going backwards -- I'm really disappointed how it has reduced). I left a lot of the dirty media in it, to try to jump start this tank better (I did save the Matrix material and four filter pads and transferred them to the 404B so as hopefully to not cycle the 45G).

But at the moment, essentially the whole surface of the tank is disturbed, but gently enough there is no noise (though it does start making some as the water level drops-- I think of it as a low water alarm). 

I'm hoping that will serve to provide enough gas transfer so as not to need an air pump here either. I mean -- if it's supposed to look natural, how many natural lakes or rivers have air bubbles coming up.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Today's water test was pretty much a duplicate -- about 2-3ppm Ammonia and .5 Nitrites. The good news is is either the same or going down, it is definitely not going up.

I conclude at this point, despite some indication that the Osmocote+ may contribute, that I screwed up. Some how in the water test that followed the initial ammonia dose I must have had a bad reading; the redose and/or the first dose and/or the calculator I used I think just plain put in too much ammonia.

Now that I've got it diluted with the water change, I think I'm back on track.

The bad news is that high ammonia may have hurt the plants. The Wisteria, the frilly top leafs, on a few plants are flaking off and floating away (they are still green interestingly). And the dwarf hair grass is turning brown in most clumps, some of it now all brown.

But... with the ammonia down, I am going to keep going. And mostly now convinced the osmocote+ didn't cause the problem, I adopted the scheme I've seen here elsewhere of putting a few in gelatin capsules.

So here are some Petsmart Top Fin Crypt Wendtii (both green and red, separately), cleaned of gel and separated. I wasn't sure how much longer they could sit around anyway (much less how long they had been at PetSmart).










So I stuffed 4 capsules, about 6" apart, well under the sand, then planted the crypts: 










Sorry about the reflection, didn't notice it (Its a white step stool). I planted these well into the sand, roots well buried, and rhisome just below the top of the sand. Hope that's correct. And I put a bit more Flourish Comprehensive and Iron in the water column.

I keep hoping to see the cycle soon. It's a bit tank, but it has a fair amount of old media in it. I'm hoping both the ammonia-hungry and nitrite-hungry ones are just breeding away.

Oh... two days still of shopping for new stain colors and wood and now possibly covering the panel in fabric. Maybe in the next day or two I'll get one panel made and approved.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Today I decided I really wanted to get rid of the pantyhose on top of the stump. This was to distract me from the tank still cycling, nitrites up, ammonia down a bit, still too early for fish.

So this is what I had before, holding down the stump that floated up: 










So I started discussing what I can cover the blob with, and the more I thought about it the less i wanted to cover it, so much as remove it.

So here's what I did: First, about $3-4 worth of slate from Lowes, broken so as to be a piece about 12x8 or so.










Drilled a hole in each corner and tied a decently long string of 40# fishing line on each corner. I also have some fish hooks:










Through lots of contortions, sneak the slate under the stump. Before doing so, I moved about half the sand away to the sides.










For each of the four corners, I pulled the line up, found a root, and tied the hook a bit short for that root. I then lifted the line (i.e. the slate) and hooked the hook into the wood, pulling tight into it with pliers. 










I'm guessing the hooks will rust away eventually, so I took the leftover line (now that the line to the slate was under tension) and tied it as tight as I could around the root, hopefully to hold it if the hook vanishes.

Add some sand to cover the slate and presto: No more pantyhose. Total cost about $8.










I really, really, really did not want to try to get the root out of the tank and back in, so trying to glue it to slate or otherwise, which would appear to be more straightfoward, just were not attractive. Hopefully this will hold, and I plant to have long jungle val or similar at that end of the tank, hopefully the vertical stems will hide the visible string (I could have probably used much thinner lower test, but I wanted to be able to pull pretty hard setting the hook).


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## derik999 (Jul 24, 2014)

Great build and documenting of your progress! Look forward to seeing how it looks when the plants really start to take off.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

OK, time for an update. It's been a frustrating few days.

First, tank is still not cycled, nitrites are still sky high. Hoping for it to finish soon.

Secondly, I had an idea to deal with the 4 different transformers for the 4 LED+ lights by hooking up my own 12V power supply. I had old PC's lying around, grabbed one, hooked up green to black (to turn it on), cut off most of the wires but a bunch of yellow (+12V) and black (ground), hooked up some CCTV power adapters (which are 5.5/2.1 or size M which is what the LED+ is), and the lights turned on. So now I had a single plug, albiet larger, fan cooled (those LED+ bricks run hot), figured it would be more stable, I could put it's one plug on a timer (or use its on/off green wire from my Raspberry PI)... all good, right? 

Well, I decided to take some measurements. First, if anyone is curious, under the full spectrum, on a 48" fixture, I get 11.8 V and 2.1 Amps, which is just shy of 25 watts. Open circuit voltage on the brick is 12.3V. The specs say 30 watts, not sure if that is to allow for inefficiencies in the transformer or just optimistic.

So on the PC power supply I got 1.9 Amps and 11.3 V, which is significantly lower at 21.5 watts, or 16% loss of consumed power due to the voltage drop. Which I presume is translating into lost light.

So back to the bricks. I may get a more capable power supply at some point that can hold 12V, and may get a bit more light, but I don't want to get less. But the old power supply was free (well, $10 for screw-terminal power plugs)

Next frustration was the skins for the stand to turn it into furniture. I built one panel as directed/negotiated with my wife. Just one panel and photoshop turned it into this: 










Neither of us really like it. We're going to spend some more time figuring out what to do. We tried it with and without the cross pieces, and a few other variations I could do with photoshop. Maybe inspiration will strike.

Anyway... so today I picked up 4 bunches of java fern. Spread them out: 










I had not realized they came as individual plants tied in string. Took a bit of pain to cut carefully and separate them out.

I wanted to use these to cover up some of the attach points holding down the drift wood.










And also shoved some down into cracks and crevices hoping it catches on and wasn't too squeezed. A problem with the stump is that it's hard to find a good place to tie thread around.










Last tank everything I planted grew well and healthy EXCEPT java fern and java moss, which promptly died. I have no idea why, my understanding is that it is hard to kill. But literally not a leaf or piece survived, but anubis and swords and crypts lived. The crypts didn't even melt first. Go figure.

I guess I'll find out with this new attempt. Wife is home... time to negotiate on the furniture again. Maybe need a cabinet maker to come out and stop being a DIY.


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

What are you talking about? The stand panels look fantastic, you have some impressive talent with woodworking. Does that go around the sides as well?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay180 said:


> What are you talking about? The stand panels look fantastic, you have some impressive talent with woodworking. Does that go around the sides as well?


Very kind but you misunderstood -- I only made one panel. I then used Photoshop to fake the picture so we could see what it would look like if I built the other 6 I would need (one side has drawers).

It's a LOT easier to do in photoshop than with wood. :hihi:

Too bad it's hard to transfer to reality. Next upgrade perhaps, with a 3D printer.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

No progress on the trim, still talking about it.

Cycling is seeming to take forever, though there's a break today -- nitrites had been running 10ppm, today they are around 5ppm, so maybe I'm on the downhill slide.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Cycle finally done.










Added my 5 plecos which had been in the QT, 15 snails I'd been saving, and bought 40 ghost (feeder) shrimp. 

The ghost shrimp are dropping dead -- I've pulled 5 out so far, but I suspect they were just not healthy. Most of them looked quite milky color when I got them. If these don't do well will try another source.

Pleco and snails look nice and happy to have room.

Now to find some other livestock. And work on the trim - wife is getting antsy.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

The cleanup crew is going to work.

Here's the footprints of the Ramshorn: 










OK, it's not perfect, but it's only the first pass.

And here's my one Albino BN Pleco; he's got his food on his chin. He's easier to find in the new tank than the rest. 










This little standard color is harder to find (he also doesn't seem to be as engaged in cleanup duty as he should be!)










And here's the next member of the cleanup crew. I found seven very healthy looking Ottos at Petsmart, of all places. I was very pleasantly surprised at this one how good all the tanks looked, and an employee actively cleaning.










They are doing a poor-man's drip acclimation (pinhole in a bag of aquarium water). I threw an algae pellet in there in case it distracts them, despite people saying "don't feed". But they seem to be ignoring it.

Now my dilemma. I did a major water change (like 95%) in the quarantine tank when I moved the pleco's out, mostly because it was cloudy, not because anything seemed unhealthy. Not expecting fish today though, I put in about 1ppm ammonia dose in the morning to make sure I had enough BB running (I removed the minimal substrate I had in it). And... the ammonia is still there. Not sure how quickly it will cycle through. So I end up with the choices of dunking these guys into ammonia, and keeping the rest of the big tank safer, or letting them into the big tank.

I'm going for the latter. I've heard that Ottos are a fragile in moving between environments. The QT is not a very friendly environment for them (no plants, no substrate (now), no good places to hide but one plastic plant). Moving twice is obviously stressful as well. The new tank has lots of room and water is better. I'm putting at risk the 5 plecos but... well, I'm probably putting the ottos at more risk going through the QT. 

And it also gives me the QT to put the congo tetras through which is what I want to buy next, avoiding the dilemma which would otherwise come up of whether I mix the ottos and congo's together, and whether even the tank is big enough for both. So rationalization rules, and once they acclimate a bit, the Ottos are going into the big tank with fingers crossed. And partly because I really was impressed how healthy everything looked at this petsmart -- very different from the other in town, perhaps more reassuring than it should be.

Ah, we humans can always rationalize what we want to do....


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

Love the plecos!

Nice to see it coming along so nicely.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Can't let the pleco's get all the press. Here are the new Otocinclus'. They've been in about 20 hours and are alive, so I consider it a win so far. They gained weight overnight also, all that I can find look like their bellies are significantly bigger.

These are not the same one, just different angles.



















I've got plants everywhere, but it's a bit rare to see them on it, at least in daylight they are on the glass or plumbing moreso. 










What I really like (no pictures though as they are awfully fast) is them swimming. They go much further up in the middle of the tank and water, and swim around rapidly for a bit before settling (as opposed to the plecos that seem to scuttle along the surfaces).


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## Lyfeoffishing (Jun 14, 2014)

Love those plecs man!!!! I wish I could get some for my 55 but no room :-( also otos are very cool I have 4 and barely see them unless I do a water change they like to swim in the current of my bowl lol. 

Tank is looking good man keep up the work!!!

55 gallon community


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

OK, since I took a real chance on the Ottos and no quarantine, I figure while I am out on that limb I might as well go for the Congo Tetras. Found they had 10 (the exact number I wanted) at a local LFS, all a couple months old there and healthy looking. Decided to get them. 

See... this morning I checked the QT expecting it to be clear of ammonia and nitrites, and found nitrites. Really? I figured plenty of time, but that little tiny filter... so... 

So along with the "leap of faith" theme, I decided to go for it anyway. If something bad happens at least it won't be a long established tank with a bunch of known healthy stock.

So here's the school of 10 (5 more are in my small 45G tank -- not going to move them for a couple weeks to make sure all is going OK). I'm hoping 15 will make a good number, though it's a big tank when you see them like this!










And yes, my glass isn't clean -- a side flash will really show you poor glass cleaning. Too bad. It's not done yet!

I found it interesting -- they are not hiding. They are hanging out near the top (about 8" down). They'll move to the opposite side if you go stand there, but they don't go and dive into all the wisteria, which is what I expected.


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## TheMonaLisa (Jun 24, 2014)

Awesome setup


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Might as well fill this up with more photos.

Yesterday went to an Aquarium club in town, and they had a talk by Andres Ryan, a marine biologist and local fish farmer (http://bioaquatix.com/). They always have a big auction and I got some of his Cherry shrimp (Neocaridina heteropoda). He also brought some blue ones, but someone bid me up too high and I didn't get those (and too bad as I see he doesn't even have them on his web site). 

So my QT (which finished its mini-cycle before i got home) is now a shrimp tank. I'm going to wait to see what happens with the Ghost shrimp before putting them in the big tank, but also people are telling me that they might not survive having Congo Tetras around (i.e. even the adults). So not sure if these will go in the big tank or not. I plan to move my small tank Congo's to the big tank, so may put the RCS into it.

Anyway, some shots from the RCS: 

Swimming - they are pretty fast!










Hanging out in the guppy grass I also picked up there (BIG bag for $2):










One of them came already carrying eggs (I'm guessing pretty early in their term?):










And finally just cause I have no plan at all for aquascaping, I decided to see what guppy grass will do if you shove it in substrate. I've seen some say it rots and dies, and some say it grows like mad. If the latter maybe this corner can be a home for shrimp. I still REALLY need some moss and low grass type stuff.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

I have some guppy grass growing in a my angelfish tank, which has large gravel substrate and just some light bars, not plant lights. I went away for a week and came back to it having grown 8 inches!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Latest update - I gave a try at really covering a rock in moss. It's going to look out of place with just one, but you have to start somewhere. I have no idea if this will work -- I used cheese cloth to hold the moss down. It's cotton and will rot in a few weeks or months. But it's also too small of a mesh, so the moss is not sticking out much. Not sure what happens now. But this is becoming a grand experiment.










On other fronts, one oto dead of unknown causes, can't find two others but suspect they are just hiding. Everyone else is happy.

Finding it is very hard to get my congo tetras to find food quickly, they run away from me rather than to me at this point when I add food.


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

Those rocks would look amazing covered with moss. Let me know how this experiment works.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Several updates: 

Found a large power supply (850W Corsair) from an old, unused PC, and tried it to power the four Satellite LED+ lights. Not only did it work, it worked better than the OEM power supplies. This held the voltage to a full 12V, which provided 11% more current, and presumably 11% more light.

Here's the power supply, mounted up under the tank and out of the way. notice that extra little cable dangling down. 










Here are the connectors for the actual fixtures. It's just speaker wire wrapped in electrical tape - cheap wiring harness.










Remember that little wire hanging down? Well, it was time for the first routine water change since adding fish. Maybe a bit early, the nitrates were only about 20 +/- reading error, but I figured it was time to get some of the original cycle crap out of the water, and also some organic matter (leaves, diatoms, etc) out.

My problem was the refill -- my little pump would not lift water that high, and last time I had a mess, transferring to buckets then to the tank. I've been looking for a pond pump or power head with relatively low flow but high lift. And cheap. No luck at all.

But... as anyone who has had boats, you probably have an old bilge pump lying around. I ran across one, and decided to try it -- it has the advantage that it won't burn up if run dry. But they are twelve volts. 

But hey... so are the LED's. So I put an extra plug onto the power supply, and hooked it to the bilge pump (more speaker wire): 










The black wire is a pond pump -- it's in there without a hose acting as a mixer, as (at the time of the shot) the bilge pump. Trying to dissolve the equilibrium and buffers. 

So here's the setup:










Water going out is going through a 50' hose and into the canal out back. It's got about a 14' drop so it gets a decent speed draining, but it is slow enough I had plenty of time to position the hose to vacuum. PLENTY of time.

The tank beside it is an old stock tank we had from life on the farm, and I use it to make RODI water. It's not a great place to mix it, but it works.

Filling with the bilge pump worked great. My estimate is that it ran about 300 reduced toward the end to 200 gph (it is an 800gph bilge pump). It took a 3/4" hose (which I had left over from the filters), and ran fast enough I could stand to stand there, but slow enough it did not blow things away. 

All in all free (well, parts I already had) and worked nicely. So water is changed.

Now the bad thing -- when I brought home the first set of fish (plecos) I had a quarantine tank, in they went, and stayed a couple weeks.

But when I bought some congo tetras and ottos I didn't have enough space, so I dumped them into the main tank.

Big mistake.

Now the plecos (which I am sure did not have it) have Ich. At least two of them have a few white spots. And I mean few -- one on one of them 4 on another. But I think they are unmistakable when I look close.

The Congos look fine - no visible cysts, and no flashing or other signs (in fact lots of mating behavior). 

The otos also look fine, but are dying rapidly. 5 of 7 ended up dead, the last today. I have heard they die frequently when brought home, but this is silly. However, they did not show any signs of ich, either behavior or on the skin (I looked at the most recent dead one under magnification - nothing). 

My presumption is that the congo tetras brought it in. I know that LFS has frequently had Ich, but there was no sign the day I was there. However, they use a common sump for a huge wall of tanks, so I am now convinced every tank has some ich all the time.

My presumption is they are carriers, and now the tank is infected. 

I'm going to give it until tomorrow (I first noticed yesterday) and see if there is any change. If they don't disappear magically (and pretty sure they will not), I will start cranking up the heat.

Except I don't have enough heater for 13 degrees over ambient, so I ordered a new 300 watt in-line heater. Been meaning to get something regardless, I guess it is time. This also means I need a Rasperberry Pi temperature monitor, as I do not trust that heater -- there have been quite a few notes that it can run amok and cook fish. But Hydor appears to be the ONLY in-line heater. 

It arrives tomorrow, will get it hooked up, and see if I need to do a heat treatment.


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## Lyfeoffishing (Jun 14, 2014)

Congratz on finding a fix to your water changes. As for the otos I was afraid the same would happen to my four. If the survive the first week you are usually safe. Hopefully the ich is small and you get it under control quickly. 

55 gallon community


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Try malachite green if you can't do the heat, it might be expensive but it works.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

HybridHerp said:


> Try malachite green if you can't do the heat, it might be expensive but it works.


I'll do some more reading, but I thought it was not great on plecos, and I also have lots of shrimp (two kinds) and snails and plants....

Heat worked great last time (different tank, different fish; suspect same source of ich) and everyone (though I did not have RCS then) seemed quite happy to be warmer. I thought I would give that a go.


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## BigJay (Jun 30, 2009)

The Ottos have a lot of competition for food with the snails and plecos. Is there anything for them to eat? Your tank must be squeaky clean. I haven't added any Ottos yet because I don't have enough algae, not that I'm complaining.

Sorry to hear about the ich. Hopefully all of your fish pull through okay.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay said:


> The Ottos have a lot of competition for food with the snails and plecos. Is there anything for them to eat? Your tank must be squeaky clean. I haven't added any Ottos yet because I don't have enough algae, not that I'm complaining.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the ich. Hopefully all of your fish pull through okay.


Oh, there's plenty. It's a 220G so there are a LOT of walls, and the plants still have some diatom on them. Plus I periodically put in a cucumber just for variety.

The dead ones were, sadly, nicely fat.


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## aja31 (May 25, 2013)

Looks great so far, love the details! 

Hope you get the ich sorted out, I always have trouble with new fish. 

My last batch of fish were in QT for 3 weeks, added them into the main tank, they were fine for 3 more days and then 80% of them died. 

Usually once you have them for a month in the main tank they are good to go.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Never.

*Never ever.*

*Never ever under any conditions use cheese cloth for securing moss (etc) to rocks or wood.*

Here is what it looks like after two DAYS. Yes, just a mere 48 hours.










It just totally and completely fell apart.

It had a bit of help, a little albino pleco adopted the rock and would push his head into the threads, get a bit stuck, and push on through. But he did that really only after it feel away from the rock and started letting moss out.

So I removed it, as I lifted it about 60% of the moss floated away in the tank. What a mess. HUGE mess.

I guess in one sense the experiment was a success -- cheese cloth does indeed rot in the aquarium.

Two days! A long, long way from the 2 months it likely takes.


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Aww bummer lin.. epic thread here.. save the good stuff for tpt huh


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

brooksie321 said:


> tpt


OK, I'm feeling dense... tpt?


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Linwood said:


> OK, I'm feeling dense... tpt?


The planted tank!!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

brooksie321 said:


> The planted tank!!


Well, I said I was feeling dense. Algae growing in the brain, perhaps.

While I'm on the update theme, I have 6 new angelfish in the quarantine tank. I figured 1 in 32 chance of no pairs, right? Even my luck can't be that lucky. And I have two more in another tnak, so it's 1 in 128 if I need to include those.


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Heheh I hate brain algae.. worst.. I'm not all that great with odds and angels but I'd bet a dollar you get a pair there..


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

brooksie321 said:


> Heheh I hate brain algae.. worst.. I'm not all that great with odds and angels but I'd bet a dollar you get a pair there..


Only if you're offering 32:1.

:tongue:


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## BigJay (Jun 30, 2009)

Pics of the Angels!

Do you have a stocking plan go this monster?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay said:


> Pics of the Angels!
> 
> Do you have a stocking plan go this monster?


Oh, that QT is so ugly. but I'll try.

And plans? What's a plan. Are we supposed to plan what we do? And what, next you want me to decide what I want to be when I grow up also? :confused1:

Angels first.

I may get a bigger catfish (than the 5 plecos, and 2 remaining otos). Our raphael in the other tank does such a good job (and zero plant destruction) we may just do that again, but he is completely invisible in the day time, so not the best for a display tank.

My impression (am I right?) is that the plecos do not do a whole lot with the bottom crud, they are more algae on sides, plants, etc. Whereas the raphael seems to just, overnight, remove any trace of food and some poop still lying on the substrate.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Update: 

I got very tired of seeing how cramped these tall angels were in the QT. I did some mass rationalization -- I'm treating the main tank with heat for ich, if these have ich they will get the treatment also, and angels are happy hot. Plus these came from a hobbiest and I know how much care he takes. 

So after a couple days I put the angles in the big tank. They were much happier -- after a few hours they were hungry and following me around the tank (well, 4 of 6), and by the next day all six raced over to the corner to eat.

Now here's the strange news -- despite being in the tank only a day, two are paired off. I noticed them cleaning a corner, and then later they started attaching eggs and fertilizing.










They picked a filter pipe. Unfortunately a lot of the eggs are not sticking, not sure why (it's just flat black spray paint on PVC). A few are. Maybe the new mother did not have the technique correct at first. You can see one making a run up the pipe in the photo and a few eggs near the top.

I am very surprised that this new to the tank-- and to each other, these two came from different tanks at the person who raised them -- would pair off and already be laying eggs. 

One's a "chocolate" and one is, I guess it's called, a striped with pearled scales? 

What happens when two of different... types? species? what are these? ... mate? Do we get sterile hybrids?


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

This is a question for andy in AA. those are spectacular looking angels lin... question?? Is it OK to submerge spray paint? Just out of curiosity not scrutiny.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

brooksie321 said:


> This is a question for andy in AA. those are spectacular looking angels lin... question?? Is it OK to submerge spray paint? Just out of curiosity not scrutiny.


I had seen a lot of people painting PVC, I assumed so. Enamel ends up being pretty inert, I wouldn't have hesitated to eat off of it. But I just assumed so.

The angels are not doing well as parents -- they come back and eat their eggs. My wife did some reading and said that happens sometimes the first time. Guess we'll see.


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## BigJay (Jun 30, 2009)

You know your fish are satisfied with their environment when they start trying to reproduce in it.

Nice work so far, and gorgeous Angels. Any chance of getting a full tank shot or two?

PS: You're making me regret going with rainbows over Angels. Nothing is prettier than a striped or gold angel.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay said:


> You know your fish are satisfied with their environment when they start trying to reproduce in it.
> 
> Nice work so far, and gorgeous Angels. Any chance of getting a full tank shot or two?


They ate all the eggs. Strange. 

As to photos, good idea for some now so I can compare later. Here are the three sides.

This is the side people see first as they enter the room, the short end: 










Right "front" that people will generally see from standing: 










And left "front" that people will see from the living area generally seated (competing with the TV on the other side). 










The wisteria is just taking over the middle, it needs to get a hair cut real soon. Sort of by accident it is in the highest light area. I'm hoping the crypts (last shot, right third) will grow up and be a bit bushy. They (on one side) and the anubias are in the highest light area (at depth) on the other side. The crypts are half red, half green -- green doing well (to the photo-right), the red OK but not growing much (between/behind green and wisteria). Oh, there's also ludwigga in front (as shown) of the wisteria. The jungle val is on one side of the stump and is growing like mad also. 

I'm not sure what to do on the other side of the stump, originally it was going to be jungle val also, may still be as I get more runners, but I stuck a few pieces of guppy grass in the substrate and it took off also, so I cut it a few times and stuck the cut-off portion back. Might leave it just for somethign different, but I think I like the jungle val better. 

It's hard to see but there's a ring of pieces of java fern around the outside of the stump top, hoping it takes off, but it is doing very little.

The remains of the attempt to plant dwarf hair grass at the front can be seen, most of it died, but some pieces are still coming up, so just going to wait and see. 

So far I'm loving the blasting sand -- real easy to plant and remove things, and the plants are staying put. Note I lack a serious bottom feeder though (just 5 small BN plecos), so if I get a real catfish I may change my mind about that "staying put".

PS. Please don't notice the wire hanging down or the 2x4's still showing, we are still negotiating on skinning the stand.


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## BigJay (Jun 30, 2009)

That's coming along nicely. I love the wisteria in the middle.

Try some dwarf sag instead of hair grass. Sag should actually do great in a low tech no-co2 medium light tank. It's doing well in mine so far.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay said:


> Try some dwarf sag instead of hair grass. Sag should actually do great in a low tech no-co2 medium light tank. It's doing well in mine so far.


OK, but I'm going to wait a bit, mostly out of curiosity to see if the DHG actually comes back. What's left is looking nicely green. Just curiosity. Right now just keeping up with the fish, skinning the stand, and moving some plants around is taking enough time. I found in my other thank that jungle val was growing across and getting tangled up with my one little anubias there, and also I had a volunteer crypt -- it jumped about a foot from the single plant. So I saved them from the val; going to constrain it to one tank half, and leave the other for more well mannered plants. :angryfire


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## Lyfeoffishing (Jun 14, 2014)

Love that "left" look and that driftwood. Your hair grass might take some time to grow. If you want a nice carpet that's controlable might I suggest S. Repens mine have grown really nicely and plush but haven't really spread too much and looks very nice.

Here's a pic of progression of my carpet 










Anyways keep up the good work and I'm sure the tank will get more attention then the TV hahaha

55 gallon community


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

+1 on the staur, love that in my tank! Looking great lin!! That has to be a very welcome sight upon enteing your abode angels can take a few go's to get the whole "good parenting" thing, similar to rams. I guess some cichlids get it right away and others need a few tries..


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, my wife caught a three Congo Tetra in the act of catching and eating a Red Cherry Shrimp. And I haven't seen any lately, so they may have all become lunch.

I'm also not sure about the ghost shrimp -- there should be about 40 in there, and I could only see one today. I know they can hide, but I have a feeling they are not hiding well enough from the fish. I also saw an angle go after one way down under the stump -- surprised the angel could even get in there. Missed, but clearly was trying.

So maybe time to go catch some shrimp. If they are becoming food, well... better than buying it I guess. I think if some can get really big (they are quite big in my other tank) they may be safe. At least the females (bigger, probably meaner). 

Still working on trim, trying to find a paint that wife likes (we settled on color, at least for this trial, but not on how glossy...).

No new angel eggs yet, but one (I think, assume, the female) is VERY fat, looks like she swallowed one of the congos. Or maybe too many shrimp, but I suspect lots of eggs waiting.

Bump: Oh... almost forgot... Nitrate test today was about 5ppm. It's actually going DOWN. Love those plants. I hope I don't reach the point where I have to start adding nitrates.


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

They're hiding.. I've had amanos roaming a tank for months, added some rams and they disappeared..figured they'd become ram poo.. every so often I'd see an exoskeleton or molt.. when I rescaped the tank I found them all clinging to the bottom of a chunk of dw.. the rcs are probably dead.. brighter bait usually goes first. .


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

I'm still trying to make my boss happy with the skins.

I made one panel again, and have been doing some photoshop to get approval. I think we've narrowed down to blank + a material she chose for the interior. The black is an issue -- she wants it to be glossy and flat, no wood grain. Working on that with lots of coats and sanding. 

So soliciting opinions, both in general, and one specific decision. Here are two examples. One is made with 3 frames each of which has a border around the center panel. The other is made of one big frame with just one single width divider between the panels, so the fabric is larger.

I am still not quite sure what to do about the top section to cover the plumbing but I'm leaning toward the sides being solid wood (black) with the wide panel on the back (right side as shown) having the fabric in the center to match the bottom.

Again, these are photoshop fakes to try to decide what we want to do. opinions welcomed.



















PS. Yes, there's an actual defect in the fabric on the right side, which was cloned to each panel. We will either put this on the seldomly seen back (right) side, or just replace it.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

I like the double border version much better, but it would just be the photoshopping lines.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

A brief update on the construction...

Having decided on color and panel types, I'm starting to make all of them now. Unfortunately the one I made as a sample turned out to be slightly the wrong size for how I plan to arrange them. 

I also painted the drawer set. It's Oak and it was harder to get the grain not to show, but I decided to give up, as the side that shows will be difficult to see the grain in the light.










This gets a frame around it. It's a bit asymmetrical to fit around the drawers and still hide the bottom: 










The glue is setting on it now (the paint on the top is just where I was testing some spray I decided not to use). It turns out a deep pile carpet is nice to work on, as the little plastic corner braces on the strap are too tall for the 1x wood, if you tighten them good and tight it actually twists the wood, as the center-of-pull is slightly over top of the wood. With the carpet I can push the corner down lower than the bottom of the wood, and the wood still has something holding it level. 

Here are 4 of the 7 other panels waiting to be sanded and primed and painted. With each coat taking 24 hours it is miserably slow. I'm also doing it indoors (despite the smell) as I was getting too many marks from insects and dust outdoors (I'm still getting a lot indoors but not nearly as much). I've got a 4x8 sheet of plywood I work on to protect the floor, so I can work on at most a few pieces at a time. 










Now I've got to find a good way to attach the panels that will be permanent, the one around the drawers, the two on each side of the drawers, and the far end. Unfortunately the drawers being in place make it hard to screw any of these in; I'm thinking glue at the moment, but still trying to find a way to screw them. Glue is so final, in case I make a mistake.


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## navarro1950 (Jul 25, 2014)

I to have a ph problem but everything read about using the chemicals to change ph is very bad. I use of 50% tap water 50% ro water is best. I also read using the di part of the ro/di system is used for reef tanks. Maybe you might check that out.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

navarro1950 said:


> I to have a ph problem but everything read about using the chemicals to change ph is very bad. I use of 50% tap water 50% ro water is best. I also read using the di part of the ro/di system is used for reef tanks. Maybe you might check that out.


Well... no.

I use RODI water (no tap), that means I must add "chemicals" to manage ph buffering. If I don't, I'll get very wild PH swings. 

What I think you are referring to is trying to change ph, mostly downward, by adding chemicals like acids. While that works, the core problem with high ph water is the presence of carbonate hardness, i.e. in order to effectively reduce ph you have to take something OUT of the water, and adding stuff to water is a bit problematic, as what often happens is the buffer is consumed temporarily, and reforms.

But when you "make" the water from distilled or RODI water you have to put the appropriate buffers into the water targetting a "natural" ph based on how much you add.

What I'm finding is I can hit that PH, more or less, with raw water, but after it goes into the tank and mixes, it remains a bit high. I have no carbonates (rocks, etc.) in the tank, but there's a lot of other stuff in the tank (fertilizers for example) that I suspect is having an impact. 

I'm not too worried about it, as it is ph swings that are bad. I'm starting to add a bit less alkalinity as I make new water, I want to edge it more toward neutral but it is not really causing a problem.

Note I don't use tap water as it is quite inconsistent here. Depending on what's flaking off our aging steel pipes, and how fresh our city's RO filters are, we get wide variations of sediments, ph range, and TDS. So even if on any given day I found a good mix ration of RODI water + tap, a few days later it would not be the same mix. By mixing my own, I can control (well, as best I can measure chemicals) consistency of what goes into the tank. That is my main reason for using RODI -- not that I specifically need the purity, but that I want the consistency.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Time for an update. 

Whatever you do, don't decide you want a high gloss deep finish on your stand. Paint, wet sand, paint, wet sand, paint.... repeat until insane. Then find out you don't have it smooth enough, sand some more.... 

Most of it will be panels like this -- fabric covered plywood in the middle, but the outside is supposed to be smooth and glossy.










I started making the part that will cover the pipes at one end. Same principle, except it has solid sides.










I'm painting inside, despite the fumes, because there's just too much dust and insects outside. And it's oil paint, as latex is just too soft to effectively wet sand to polish. Though I'm starting to wonder if I should have looked harder.

I also planted another set of the TopFin Crypt Wendtii Green along one side and part of the end. There's some a couple months old on the other side that is doing wonderfully. Very surprised and impressed by their packaged plants -- I was not expecting much, but they just go in and start growing immediately; no melting. At least so far, at least for the crypts.










And just for run, a cross section of the tank with some of the fish shown:










But a larger view of that part for any opinions:










The plants in the background are wisteria, planning to keep it trimmed in the spot it is in. It's a monster in terms of growth rate.

In the right foreground is ludwiggia, and on the left foreground is something that came in with some guppy grass I got. I planted one or two strands, it grows very long, I cut it up and plant it again, it keeps growing.

I want something on the left to start hiding the plumbing. On the other side (also viewable) I'm using jungle val, and it's growing well.

On this side I was going to use the guppy grass (or whatever it is), but am thinking of using the ludwiggia instead, just propagating it to the left, keeping it trimmed to 5-10" or so tall. It doesn't have the nice red color but it's pretty. The downside is that it sprouts a lot of roots at the middle of the stems, whereas whatever kind of grass that is does not.

Opinions? Or other suggestions?


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Could have sprayed it black and hit it with high gloss poly after. Looks good so far, tank looks great! Maybe a crypt balansae to hide the plumbing? Or some rotala?


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

I like this tank a lot. Your angels are gorgeous


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

brooksie321 said:


> Could have sprayed it black and hit it with high gloss poly after. Looks good so far, tank looks great! Maybe a crypt balansae to hide the plumbing? Or some rotala?


Thanks, I'll look those up.

I tried spray first (I'm not a masochist by design). It wasn't acceptably smooth and glossy enough, the grain showed pretty strongly in the wood, and it still had irregularities from application.

Maybe if I had real spray gear (instead of spray cans) and a spray booth to keep dust out.

I am still thinking of the poly, but I've heard poly over paint (in this case oil based paint) will eventually peel off? 

I'll look up the two plants mentioned, thanks.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

I also decided to do a trim today of the Wisteria. Second trim this month.

This is only the first half from one side, I got almost as much from the top and other side.










I think it may be an alien sent to take over the world; I'm fighting the good fight!

Is it edible? Can we make Wisteria Souffle perhaps?


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

Did you put primer down first? Primer and sand smooth for 2 coats would cut the finish work down. If you are using cans, boil a pot of water, remove it from the stove and place the cans in them. Helps lay an even coat on wood.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Italionstallion888 said:


> Did you put primer down first? Primer and sand smooth for 2 coats would cut the finish work down. If you are using cans, boil a pot of water, remove it from the stove and place the cans in them. Helps lay an even coat on wood.


I'm using Zinsser BIN primer, but have been doing only one coat. It is much faster to dry and easy to sand, so I think the idea of a second coat is a good one. I have two more panels yet to assemble, will definitely try that.

As to boiling -- are you talking spray? Not using that.

Or are you talking oil paint in cans, they should be heated? I've been thinning the 2nd and subsequent coat heavily with thinner, but heating?


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Enamel undercoater is by design thicker and easier to sand.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

I was talking about spray cans. I thought you mentioned you were using those. Don't heat up the oil based. I agree an enamel will cover thicker and require less sanding in the long run.

Don't thin, if you thin the paint it is more likey to fall down into the "grain" but really 2-3 coats of primer and sanding will make the grain near invisible by the time you start putting your final coats on.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BruceF said:


> Enamel undercoater is by design thicker and easier to sand.


Yeah, I went by a store's recommendation, I didn't know. I've only got two more (of 8) panels to prime, not sure if it's worth switching. Might.



Italionstallion888 said:


> Don't thin, if you thin the paint it is more likey to fall down into the "grain" but really 2-3 coats of primer and sanding will make the grain near invisible by the time you start putting your final coats on.


I'm using pine which is not showing much grain; I shouldn't have used that word. It is more sanding irregularities, and brush strokes. I thought if I thinned it would dry slower for more gloss and lay down flatter. I'm painting with Rustoleum which is like buttermilk, or maybe a light honey. 

Here's an example. This is after: 

1 primer code, sanded dry with 220 grit 
1 base code of paint, unthinned, sanded wet with 220 grit
1 top coat of paint, thinned 2:1, not yet sanded.

I was planning one more coat, but you can see the the different depths of paint that are sort of brush marks, sort of how it settles out.










My bigger problem is I can't sand raw wood worth a darn to get it flat. I can get it smooth - grain out, etc., but later when it gets a high gloss finish it is not FLAT. I've tried using the belt sander more, and on the larger scale that keeps it flatter, but a moment's inattention and I have a deep valley somewhere. Sanding with a hand sander or by hand with a block for rough work is even worse about being flat on the larger scale. This whole idea of getting a mirror finish that looks flat -- I lack the right tools or talents or both. A giant table belt sander is probably what I really need. Or skills.

Taking all lights out of the living room so no one can get a reflection is my next plan.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

You need to find someone with a benchtop planer if you want it flat and level. You won't get a mirror finish unless you can uniformly level the top at the same time. Another option is to wrap the wood in black vinyl.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

It will look fine in the end. Paint always looks better than you think in a week or so. Most people are going to be looking at the fish and they are looking great.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Italionstallion888 said:


> You need to find someone with a benchtop planer if you want it flat and level. You won't get a mirror finish unless you can uniformly level the top at the same time. Another option is to wrap the wood in black vinyl.


Yeah, that's not going to happen I think.

But wrap it? I've never seen anything like that -- something you could wrap what is basically a picture frame? And have smooth edges and square corners? 



BruceF said:


> It will look fine in the end. Paint always looks better than you think in a week or so. Most people are going to be looking at the fish and they are looking great.


That's my hope. Though I'm not sure it so much looks better as you get used to it, like a bad smell. :icon_sad:

I just finally had to go un-screw and re-drill all the mounting of the pre-made drawers. They were about 1/8" out of true. The floor was level, but one side was lower on the drawer cutouts. A pain as it was too small of a move to avoid making all new holes on that side. But now it doesn't smell quite so badly.

Perfection is the enemy of good. I hate "good".


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

You can get stick on vinyl at your local hobby stores, I know the hobby lobby here has it. Typically comes in rolls or you can have them cut the length you need. I've used this on several projects around the house that I didn't want to paint. Just cut to the size you need and slowly/carefully remove the backing and stick it on. It won't be a 100% mirror but will come out 10x better than painting the wood, plus it would give you some water proofing.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Hmmm... need some fabric for the center, will look at this. I can see how it would work on big flat areas. Not sure about shaping it on the corners. Probably not follow the miter cut on the 45, but go across with a strip? Or buy a huge sheet and not cut it at all, just waste the center perhaps? That sounds promising if it's not too pricey.

I'm going to keep sanding and painting but I have a spare frame (made it the wrong size, slightly) and may test some vinyl as a backup.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

it's easier to just get a bigger piece and reuse the middle parts for another project. For the corners you want to cut a slit into the corner so it will lay down around the edge and come together when applied. You might see a little seem but it's not very distracting.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

I never found the vinyl. I kept painting. I didn't finish but we had guests coming this week, so I was told to put what I had together. Time for pictures. There's at least three of the panels that need repainting (unless I get depressed and think ALL of them need another coat), but at least it is starting to look like the final product. 




























The wood colored piece at the top is unfinished as it is where the wiring will go for the 4 LED+ light IR receivers and the computer control transmitted. Haven't figured out quite how to attach that, but that piece is separate from the periscope-like piece that hides the plumb, so that the plumbing can be accessed without disconnecting the wiring (this small wood colored (will be black) piece will stay behind. 

It's downright hypnotic now to look at it when sitting in the living room. I had never just sat and looked before (was always working on it, painting, sanding the paint off, painting, repeat). 

I'm a bit annoyed that it has some haze in the tank. Two of the three filters were freshly cleaned about 4 days ago. Up close it looks like tiny particles, it's been there for a while and not changing much. And there's a bit of scum on the top, so it might be bacteria of some sort. There's a lot of aeration, but the scum doesn't go away, so maybe not enough. A project for later I guess.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Looks great!


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

Well done sir, that came together perfect.

You have a beautiful tank, but no house plants with those huge windows?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Italionstallion888 said:


> You have a beautiful tank, but no house plants with those huge windows?


That's my wife's job, but she puts most of her efforts into the outside plants (we do not have all that many either). 

So I needed a planted tank! (Doesn't bode well perhaps for those plants peace of mind, but... )


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Nice house man. If I may ask, what do you do for a living? I see you got the house, boat, and even a piano! =\


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

Very nice setup!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Time for an update. We had visitors (winter in Florida - no one comes here in the summer!), so I've been sidelined on painting.

But I revived work on the lights. I have four Satellite LED+ fixtures, which have remote controls, but have no timer. So I decided to use a Raspberry Pi to make a remote control for them.

Here's the breadboard of the circuit for testing:










I mounted the Pi itself under the cabinet and powered it from the ATX power supply I had made up some time before. Here's the power supply with me pulling off the new wiring, and the pi on the center/left for testing.










I found the power supply (basically an old computer supply I would have otherwise thrown away) had plenty of power on the standby line for the Pi (purple wire if you're curious). I thought about using the Pi itself to turn the power supply "on" (short green to ground) but I measured some currents -- the no-load "on" power is 150ma (121V) and the no-load standby is 89ma, so there is not much power savings (though the fan does not run in standby, it's silent). 

So I'm leaving the power supply "on" all the time, and driving the lights, controlling their IR receivers by the IR Transmitter. 

Here's the completed Pi under the cabinet (the micro USB runs to the power supply, I added a headset adapter to take the IR sensor up to the top).










This is the part of the cabinet that will hold the wiring. It will remain on top when the back cabinet is removed (which hides the plumbing) so the wiring is not attached to the normally-removed part.

This has not been sanded and finished yet; the black paint is because I reused a piece of wood that already had paint, but all this gets cleaned, sanded, and painted later (along with some hooks to hold the extra wire underneath).










In the above each sensor is in a little niche cut into the wood. That raw wood piece (paint comes later) will back up to the rest of the cabinet.

The emitter is an issue. It is a bit too directional to be this close, it does not illuminate the receivers uniformly, and sometimes they "miss" a signal. At the moment I have a little hood made of aluminum foil over the top, which works (mostly), but isn't permanent. Here's the front side you can see it better.










I'm going to look at a diffuser instead of a reflector. But at the moment it works good enough to go back to painting, and now I don't have to manually control the lights.

Here's what the web based remote looks like. I can run it from any web device (phone, computer, tablet, etc.) in the house, plus it has a schedule (at the bottom) it follows if not told otherwise.


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## DBridges (Sep 22, 2009)

Wow, that's a wonderful looking aquarium. It's a great centerpiece for that beautiful living room.

David


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

*BAD BAD BAD* Scotch Brite Heavy Duty Scour Pads* BAD BAD BAD*

Never, ever again.

I thought these could not scratch glass, but was I wrong. Brand new pad in hand, thoroughly rinsed in filtered water, I set off to remove some scum on the glass. Two swipes and I see something that looks like a spider web (but under water). Swipe again - maybe a long thin root -- now I have two.

Brand new glass and it's scratched, fortunately in a way visible mainly looking down from above. 

No, I didn't touch the sand first, I was very careful. I was about 18" above the sand, just cleaning scum and a tiny bit of GSA. 

Never gain.

I looked around on the internet and see a few other places people say it does/can scratch glass, and despite all those who say it cannot -- they are wrong. 

Maybe there are types that will not, but I'm not going to be the test subject to find out. No more scotch brite.

I'm back to my long razor scraping blade. Razor blades will not scratch glass!! It just takes a bit longer to clean scum with them.

*BAD BAD BAD* Scotch Brite Heavy Duty Scour Pads* BAD BAD BAD*


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## Regenesis (Apr 12, 2011)

Such a wonderful build! Love the progress


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

A razor can scratch glass, and I did so on my 180 gallon oceanic reef. The same thing happened using those garbage "algae float" magnet things. What's worse is that algae ALWAYS manages to grow in the scratches first, making them all plainly visible.

On this tank, I usually use a plastic credit card for stubborn slimy stuff. Once a week I give the inside of the tank a quick "10 minute" wipe-down with a folded wet paper towel. Yes, I totally ripped that idea off of Tom Barr. Anyways, it's something to do other than just sitting there waiting for the tank to fill up.

Other than once a week, I don't bother cleaning the algae. Not enough of it grows to really notice.

Bump: PS: You're a genius with the electronics. That's awesome.


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## SleepyOwl (Sep 23, 2007)

What a gorgeous aquarium!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay180: I think a razor can scratch only glass if it gets something like a grain of sand in it, or you actually hit it hard and chip it. It shouldn't be able to scratch normal annealed glass. It shouldn't be hard enough. Unless they changed that since I took geology a bazillion years ago? That said, it's pretty easy to get a microscopic piece of dirt on the razor edge. 

SleepyOwl, Regenesis: Thank you.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the scratch Lin... Is it bad? How far from the upper rim is the scratch? Maybe there's a way to drain and repair?

Best of luck.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

It's about 10" down, so it is possible at a water change, though at present it is invisible unless you really get at the right angle and look carefully, so not going to do anything about it unless (as suggested above) something makes it more visible.

I'm also not keen on "fixing" glass right above the water, anything I have seen to polish with, I don't think I want in my tank. Is there something that would be OK?


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

I have no idea. I'm with you in that Id just leave it especially if it's not very noticeable. I brought it up because it is an option for you if you wanted to fix the scratch. I think is very difficult fix though.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

If your tank looks good enough, people won't notice it. You will know is there. Don't let it drive you nuts.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Time for an update. Mostly I am still painting but hope to be done with that in a day or two.

However, on a bit of a lark I wanted to try a pleco cave. Our 5 plecos in the tank are now six -- some combination apparently raised a spawn somewhere in the tank. We saw (we think) 3 at one time, but now can only find one, but he's almost big enough to be safe from predation. Though I would put in a cave to make it easier next time.

Decided to try an experiment and make my own, as I wanted them to blend in. So here's a story. Note I know absolutely nothing about working with this media, so advice welcomed; but I'm not letting absolute ignorance stop me.

Here's what I used, picked more or less at random as the first black I ran into in a hobby store (Michaels):










It's a polymer clay which can be baked in an oven. First I rolled it out (I used waxed paper to keep from staining the cutting board, and rolled with a rolling pin). I used the bottle as a rough mold.










Next I wrapped the bottle loosely for shape, then using a knife worked the bottle out, leaving the shape behind. I used a wooden down to push out against my fingers to refine the shape.










Because I didn't want it too smooth inside, I used a dull knife to scratch up the interior. Note that I pinched the top and bottom together permanently. I know a lot of people make them removable to open up and look inside -- I'm going for innocuous in the tank, so it won't be up and all that reachable.










Now what I did wrongly -- I wanted it to match the substrate, so I took some of that blasting sand thinking I could cover the outside. Well... not really.... 










I could cover it, but it did not stick. It was very hard to press by hand into the clay, the clay is too firm. 

What I should have done is laid down a bunch of sand, then clay, then rolled it with the rolling pin forcing it into the sand better. But too late for this one. It has some sand.










Baked it at 275 for 30 minutes -- after cooling still felt a bit soft. Baked again for about an hour - better. Pronounced it ready once cooled over night: 










Will anyone move in? No idea. But it achieved what I wanted -- a way to hide the structure reasonably and have it blend in with the tank. I put it facing and close to an end, which may annoy the parents, but will give us some chance of seeing activity. We'll see. 

I may make another and learn from this, but going to wait a bit and see if it gets inhabited. Or collapses. Or dissolves. Or ... who knows...


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

That is really clever putty work Linwood. Are there any caves in the brickwork? Im sure someone will move in, either shrimp or a pleco.

And don't feel bad about the scratches. Before I knew better I did something similar to an expensive Oceanic 180 reef tank with drilled overflows. Everyone raved about the corals and fish, but I couldn't see past the scratches. Eventually I got over it.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay180 said:


> That is really clever putty work Linwood. Are there any caves in the brickwork? Im sure someone will move in, either shrimp or a pleco.


There are gaps between each block, but all of them I think are open at each end, and I understood they preferred closed end caves. 

No shrimp left, sadly -- about 60 of them over time became lunch, the Congos discovered a real taste for shellfish.

Which is too bad, I find ghost shrimp fascinating. They lasted a few weeks, the RCS I added a few days max.

Bump: Well, interestingly I just found another baby. This one VERY tiny albino, about half the length of the other non-albino baby, so it makes me wonder if it is actually a different spawn (otherwise it grey much slower).

It is fairly brave, it is hanging out in plain sight today, so not sure how long he will survive. So here just in case a portrait (for scale maybe 1/2 or 3/4" long).


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

Clever cave idea roud: Would think they'd like that. And they'll get used to being spied on. Mine are accustomed to the flashlight and the camera


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

doggo said:


> Clever cave idea roud:


Thanks. Is that a full size BN adult? If so, how big is your cave opening, I had no idea how big to make that.


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

Yep, young adult male 3+", plus just-hatched orange wigglers. The cave opening's around 1-1/2" and tapers at the end. Paz is probably just under a year old.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

You should sand it after you bake it. Get some contact spray can glue and pour/roll the sand. Worked well for me that it blended in and I forgot about it months later. Nice work


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Italionstallion888 said:


> You should sand it after you bake it. Get some contact spray can glue and pour/roll the sand. Worked well for me that it blended in and I forgot about it months later. Nice work


It's interesting, one pleco came over but didn't go in, but he cleaned off the outside of sand for an inch or so on top. Maybe just looking things over.

I'm going to leave this one as-is, but if I do another will try getting sand to attach better. Do you not think it can be done pre-bake? I figure rolling the sand into the clay would make it permanent when baked?

I always worry about glues when a sucker fish is involved.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

Put cotton balls in the opening, you can also grab gloves, and hand spread the aquatic goope at ace hardware where you want sand and roll it in the sand. Then it's safe and you can really pack the sand on. 

I built clay, rock, slate you name it caves for mine. All he cares about is one Terra cotta pot I've had since I got him. (8 yrs ago)


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

The fact that fish are breeding in your tank is a sign that your water quality and parameters are good for them - and that they are content in their environment. Stressed and sick fish don't spawn.

That's awesome.

PS: more baby pleco pics!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Plecos are hiding at the moment but I have some new denizens: 

to work on the staghorn algae I've been getting, I bought 6 Siamese Algae Eaters and brought them home to quarantine. I put them in a little 1G bucket in the inch or so water they came in, and started dripping in about an equal amount of water from the QT.

I came back 20 minutes or so later and... three fish. Three. Count again.

Look down, look more closely, and deep in the shag carpet are three dead fish. 

They can jump. I knew they could jump, but they can *JUMP!*

So... back to the local hobbiest I bought them from, and three more. Now the dilemma... my QT is small (10G) and has no top. Perhaps I could make up something from a towel or aluminum foil or... but decided to just risk it. These came in yesterday from a farmer, and has a good rep, so ... I just put them into the main tank, where they are exploring.










The one above is just resting on his tail. They are very interesting to watch swim as they sink if they are not actively swimming, gives them a whole different appearance than the other fish. And they are FAST. 

The main tank is mostly covered, has a few open areas but with a lot of plumbing around it, plus it is quite deep (30") so am hoping there are no more fish on the floor.

A more head-on shot. You can see the 2 (vs 4) barbels. I hope these are really, truly the SAE and not the various fake ones.










And, since this would leave the QT clear, having just been cleaned and water changed, I had to bring something else home, so there are 5 Boeseman's Rainbowfish, 2 male, 3 females. Here's the largest male:










I'm a bit worried about them - so far they are reluctant to eat anything I have offered other than some bloodworms. Flakes and pellets they either ignore, or taste and spit out. But will see. They also stay completely at the bottom of the tank, so only even see the food if it settles by them.


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Nice find lin!! Havnt ever seen them around here you could hit home Depot for a light diffuser panel and cut it in as a top??


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

brooksie321 said:


> Nice find lin!! Havnt ever seen them around here you could hit home Depot for a light diffuser panel and cut it in as a top??


Yeah, this was more rationalization I guess, but also those are $14, for a couple week's real use. Or about $20 at the LFS. But it's $0.05 cents of plastic, just irks me to pay so much for so little.


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

Rainbows are gorgeous, I need to take a pic of mine begging sometime. I keep five bosemani and four Millenium reds. 

Rainbows like my hard water, which is perfect so I don't have to adjust it, and I can change 70% every week if I want.

They take a few days to eat. I would do a water change and vacuum up the uneaten food. Give it another day or so, and try bloodworms. They probably won't mind your liquid Rock hard water at all, in fact they will probably spawn in it.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay180 said:


> They take a few days to eat. I would do a water change and vacuum up the uneaten food. Give it another day or so, and try bloodworms. They probably won't mind your liquid Rock hard water at all, in fact they will probably spawn in it.


I'm not sure it is that hard, I mix it to be 6 dKH and 6 dGH, the KH seems to actually be about half that now. I'm using RODI, not my tap water, which is a scary mess.

Bloodworms they are eating, but I need them to learn to eat pellets preferably (that's what almost everyone else eats daily) or flakes.

I'm vacuuming up the uneaten food after a couple hours with a syringe (got it for H2O2 treatment but it's surprisingly useful). It's such a small tank I figure this keeps it a bit cleaner.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

And we have MORE baby plecos. I came in to see what I thought was an adult beside a baby, and realized the adult was really a slightly smaller baby. I think this is a third generation all in a matter of a few weeks, so they are definitely finding some place to breed.

Sadly we have one from the first generation, and not sure about the second as haven't seen them lately (the albino was in that group).

Here's the latest one, first him close up (bad shot, very blown up and at a slight angle), then a pull back shot to show a real adult (though still small -- about 2.5 to 3") for scale.



















It's a community tank with lots of hungry congos and two angels, so I'm surprised they survive, but a few are.


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## rustbucket (Oct 15, 2011)

Nice, I have a tank full of Congo's and still find baby plecos. Their biggest adversary is actually starvation, they don't dare to leave the plants for the cucumber, but there's just not enough edible algae to sustain them, so when I can I remove them so they have better access to food.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

rustbucket said:


> Nice, I have a tank full of Congo's and still find baby plecos. Their biggest adversary is actually starvation, they don't dare to leave the plants for the cucumber, but there's just not enough edible algae to sustain them, so when I can I remove them so they have better access to food.


Yeah, I worry about that, I through algae pellets in, hoping even if the small ones don't come out for them the big ones will be less hungry and maybe leave some leftovers of algae for the babies.

But it is survival of the fittest, I guess, even in an aquarium.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

I put wafers in the cave, no one goes in but him to eat.


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

Linwood said:


> Yeah, I worry about that, I through algae pellets in, hoping even if the small ones don't come out for them the big ones will be less hungry and maybe leave some leftovers of algae for the babies.
> 
> But it is survival of the fittest, I guess, even in an aquarium.


This is what you get if you don't have predators (4 spawns) :icon_lol:


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## Aquaticz (Dec 26, 2009)

That is to cool


Regards,
Aquaticz


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

Aquaticz said:


> That is to cool
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Aquaticz


They're very entertaining :icon_lol:


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## ROYWS3 (Feb 1, 2014)

I just read through this from beginning to end. It is amazing! All of it - the hardware, the stand, the aquascaping, the fish spawning, the plants - all of it!!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

doggo said:


> This is what you get if you don't have predators (4 spawns) :icon_lol:


Wow... you must have to have separate tanks out in the sun making algae. :eek5:


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

Linwood said:


> Wow... you must have to have separate tanks out in the sun making algae. :eek5:


They wish, LOL! They get fresh veggies and Repashy gel foods. I'd have more than 4 spawns if I hadn't removed daddy.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

That's an awesome photo


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

doggo said:


> This is what you get if you don't have predators (4 spawns) :icon_lol:


holy [censor]! That's a lot of plecos! (and tons of tiny poop)


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

AquaAurora said:


> holy [censor]! That's a lot of plecos! (and tons of tiny poop)


Too true, LOL! That's why I use petri dishes to feed (localizes the mess somewhat), and vacuum the front of the tank at least every other day :hihi:


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I had one pleco (but a big breed) that was more poo than I ever want to deal with again (even clogged the hugest eheim canister I got JUST for the pleco(pro 3xl or something like that?) x.x) it wasn't even done growing yet!! Was only at 13.5 of 18"... Had to rehome him but found a good place for him to go. I was also doing water changes every other day just to get all the crap out..soooo much poop


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

AquaAurora said:


> I had one pleco (but a big breed) that was more poo than I ever want to deal with again (even clogged the hugest eheim canister I got JUST for the pleco(pro 3xl or something like that?) x.x) it wasn't even done growing yet!! Was only at 13.5 of 18"... Had to rehome him but found a good place for him to go. I was also doing water changes every other day just to get all the crap out..soooo much poop


Yep, now that I'm retired poop cleaning has become my day job :hihi:


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Not a good day... Camallanus worms have shown up.

In both of my tanks. I thought them both healthy and exchanged some stock - bad idea.

Here they are from the pleco: 










Gross things.

Some sites recommend throwing everything away and sterilizing the tank. Hope I don't have to start all over.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

And just in case anyone wants to give me good news that I'm wrong, here are two more different fish (the above was BN pleco, these are angels, two different ones):


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

Sorry to hear that man. Are you going to treat your tanks with a de-wormer?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah, been driving all over looking for levamisole, ordered some online ( I'm hoping to have it in a few days), and found some fenbendazole 10% today and going to start trying to soak some food in that and get it into their systems. 

Not sure if the two together will implode, but one seems to be a bath, and one seems to be best ingested, and they'll at least start a few days apart.


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## Regenesis (Apr 12, 2011)

I used Levamisole HCL when my tank had Camallanus Worms and it proved effective after a treating for a week. Best of luck with treating it, Linwood!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

I've completed the first treatment - two losses, one pleco, one congo. Angels are stunned and not eating, but congos look back to normal. We'll see how it develops; another treatment in 3 weeks +/-.

In the meantime while doing the big water change, this little fellow showed up. Is it possible to have a half-albino pleco?










Haven't seen it after the refill, hope he stays out of the way, he's only about half or three-quarters of an inch long, he would make just a quick bite for those congos.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the worm infestation. Man, that looks painful for the fish. How do you think the worms got in your system?


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

tylergvolk said:


> Sorry to hear about the worm infestation. Man, that looks painful for the fish. How do you think the worms got in your system?


I've had callamanus in my tank as well. Treated the tank with levamisole, but my fish sadly still ended up dying. I at least treated to prevent a further infection because these worms were resilient. It was ridiculous. Lost a school of neons and a my angels back before redoing my tank.


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## mattjm20 (Nov 2, 2013)

Hey guys,
I stumbled across the camallanus mention while looking at this tank journal. I recently had a camallanus issue, I don't know where the hell it came from, I hadn't even gotten any new fish. In any case, I bought levamisole from a site called Subquaria and simply followed the instructions in my 90G and it actually treated everything... at least as far as I can tell about two months later 

I did lose one angel who was too far gone. The worms were clearly dead, I could see them hanging out of his/her vent, but the fish couldn't seem to fully expel them and I think was badly compacted. It was a slow two week death, sadly.

Anyway, the point is the levamisole definitely works, you don't have to tear down your tank and start over.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

mattjm20 said:


> Anyway, the point is the levamisole definitely works, you don't have to tear down your tank and start over.


Good to know, still about 2 weeks from the end of the treatment cycle, so we'll see.


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## MountainPool (Jul 13, 2014)

Have hope, dude, I had callamanus and lost 2/5 of my stock before i bought some beaphar bird wormer as a source of levamisole. I treated to 5ppm, twice, and haven't had a problem in the four months since, fry and all. 

That marble pleco fry looks fantastic, I hope it makes it! How do you get such crisp macro shots?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

MountainPool said:


> That marble pleco fry looks fantastic, I hope it makes it! How do you get such crisp macro shots?


I'm a rank amateur at aquariums, but not so much photography. :hihi:

I haven't seen him since -- is that what you would call it -- Marble?


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## MountainPool (Jul 13, 2014)

Maybe! Its what you call bettas that have variable colour gene expression across their skin. I wonder if its like tortoiseshell colouration in cats: one chromosome from the albino parent, one from the 'wildtype' and one of the two is active in each patch, decided epigenetically during early development, resulting in dense colours, rather than a summation of the two genes causing in an intermediate colouration.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, I hope he is under there somewhere and survives. We had a pure albino some time ago, haven't seem him in a couple weeks. Only one (from the earliest spawn) has grown to a "safe" size, in another couple months he'll be easy to mix up with the adults. The rest have to stay hidden.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, new happenings... 

First, I'm having a bit of an ammonia crisis. I do not know why. My only theory is that the Levamisole and/or fenbendazole I used killed the beneficial bacteria, as I'm having ammonia in both tanks now. There's no visible die off of fish or stock to account for it if the BB was normal. Making water to try to keep it changed until it can normalize.

But... some good news... today we saw some small fish in the bottom, almost certain they are baby mollies from the Sailfin I picked up at a nearby marsh. Here's a shot of one (we've seen at least two and I think three): 










For scale that's medium blasting sand that looks like bolders and the stems are leaf stems from young crypt wendtii, and that's a small ramshorn on the top left. So they are really small. So far they are staying hidden, but they need to at least double or triple in size before they are going to be safe from their tank mates.

However they are not that much smaller than their parents when I picked them up, and added to the tank thinking they would just be lunch -- and they survived. So maybe.


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## MountainPool (Jul 13, 2014)

Ahh, it might be useful to know that levamisole wiped out my physia snail population over the course of two days, and dead snails rot pretty quickly. Could be contributing to the ammonia load, if you've got/had pond snails.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

I have ramshorn and MTS only, plus four nerites. Three of the four nerites died, the other is MIA and I presume dead. The snails all looked stunned with the medicine in the tank, but most came back -- I'm sure a few died, but not many (visible -- not sure about the MTS). 

But yes, it's possible some are dead, it just doesn't look like it.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, as I fight my worms, I find both tanks are in a cycle, so I am doing a lot of water changes so taking the opportunity to make it a bit easier. 

Today on the big tank I installed some aides. First, I flipped one intake prefilter and lowered it.










That puts that intake at the level it is not uncovered even at about an 85-90% water change. Then..











Way too many hose clamps, two valves, and a T later, I have a mechanism to direct water either to the normal output, or to a hose thread adapter on the end of the tubing. So... 










Now I can just hook up a hose leading outside, and turn off the other two canisters leaving this one on, and the tank is pumped out. No need to fight starting a siphon, trying to protect fish from the hose (e.g. getting sucked out), etc. 

Very fast to set up and empty.

I could use it also to pump water into it by the spray bar, but I think that splashes too much. Still thinking about an easier way for that.


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

Nice solution for the water changes Linwood.

I used to have to do them the "hard way" back when I had a reef tank. Now I can't imagine changing water without a python.

Don't feel bad about losing fish, I recently had a couple of red Rainbows die. No visible parasites, no ammonia or nitrite, and my tank is overgrown with plants. Just laying on the bottom one morning, and none of the other fish are affected in the least.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay180 said:


> Now I can't imagine changing water without a python.


Yeah, I'm repeatedly tempted to switch to tap water, but then I look at the condition of the RODI pre-filter and don't. :eek5:


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

Linwood said:


> Yeah, I'm repeatedly tempted to switch to tap water, but then I look at the condition of the RODI pre-filter and don't. :eek5:


That's probably after thousands of gallons though.

Is everything okay with your tank now?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BigJay180 said:


> That's probably after thousands of gallons though.
> 
> Is everything okay with your tank now?


It looked pretty bad after a few hundred, very red/muddy on the sediment filter.

The tank ... no. It's still in a cycle, the ammonia is now zero but the nitrites are through the roof, so I'm still changing water about as fast as I can make it up. 

I'm also doing (started yesterday) the second of two Levamisole HCL treatments, but so far no sign of any remaining Camallanus worms.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Linwood said:


> It looked pretty bad after a few hundred, very red/muddy on the sediment filter.
> 
> The tank ... no. It's still in a cycle, the ammonia is now zero but the nitrites are through the roof, so I'm still changing water about as fast as I can make it up.
> 
> I'm also doing (started yesterday) the second of two Levamisole HCL treatments, but so far no sign of any remaining Camallanus worms.


How will you be able to tell if your treatment is successful after completion?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> How will you be able to tell if your treatment is successful after completion?


It's the usual "how do you prove a negative" -- watch for worms, if I see any, I know it failed.

If I don't see any, either I just haven't looked in the right place, or it worked.

Sadly I've read many horror tale of them reappearing in weeks or months, so it won't be a quick vigil.


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## BMueller777 (Feb 5, 2008)

wow man.. awesome journal til I got to the part about Camallanus Worms... I didn't even know those things existed =/ I hope things turn out in your favor, that'd be a big tare down/re-do... Makes my Ich in both tanks seem like nothing... Good luck linwood..


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BMueller777 said:


> Makes my Ich in both tanks seem like nothing... Good luck linwood..


Thanks. Yeah, the second time (this tank) I got ich, it was kind of a non-event -- crank up the heat, set my calendar for when to lower it -- done.

These worms though, scary reading out there of tales of complete destruction. But I'm hopeful, tomorrow I flush the last (second) dose of levamisole hcl out of this big tank, the next day the small, then cross my fingers.


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## taco (Jan 14, 2015)

Really enjoyed reading through this and seeing both your successes and failures. Tank looks great - subscribed.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Been a while, time for an update.

First the strange -- I have been using a 55 gallon drum since treating for worms as extra water storage (so I could do large water changes - before I could only get out about 70 gallons or so at a time). I bought the drum at a feed-and-seed locally, and it was said to be "food safe" and "had food product in it". It had been washed, I rinsed it again, I soaked it in our recently shocked pool for a couple days, rinsed again... 

I thought it was fine. It wasn't. I still do not know what was wrong with it, but.... 

Flashback to soon after I started this with dewormer. I had tested the water in my main tank with Potassium permanganate, led by someone who knew what they were doing. It turned brown almost instantly -- in a tank with reasonable organics it should last much longer, as much as 4 hours before changing from pink. Added more - changed quickly again. Mystery, but I was absorbed in the worming mess.

Well, late last week I decided to do an experiment. I put the PP in the water BEFORE it went into the aquarium, and ... it turned brown very quickly. Hmmm... 

I mixed the same proportion in a 5G bucket... stayed purple. in fact to skip ahead it stayed purple for 2 days, showing there was nothing there to react. 










So... this storage barrel had SOMETHING in it that was reacting with Potassium permanganate. That could be metals, or something organic, or who knows what. But something leaching out (had to be leaching out -- all that rinsing and washing and then being used daily for a month). 

Incidentally, I knew nothing about using Potassium permanganate until this all started. It's very cool stuff (and cheap). Mixed up at under 2ppm, it doesn't harm anything in a freshwater tank (I know nothing about salt). It turns the water bright purple/pink, then slowly either fades, or turns a brown/yellow. 

The color change shows consumption - it is reacting with organics (usually) in the water, and producing a precipitate that is brownish (and harmless in these quantities, less harmful than what was there). You should get at least about 4 hours of pink, otherwise it shows your tank has excess organics (but the treatment itself also reduces them). 

In higher quantities it makes a good dip for fish for external parasites or bacteria, or (in higher quantities still) for plants to kill snails and other bad hitchhikers. 

The main downside is that it is a bit dangerous, or at least a nuisance, if misused. In typical quantities you would handle to mix the additive it can seriously stain your hands (or other things). At the 2ppm level it doesn't stain anything in the tank, but I mix a 1,000ppm concentrate from powder, and there's nothing as purple in the world as that mixture. And in too high quantities (like 4+) it can kill the good bacteria in a tank, so you need to be very accurate in mixing.

And my thanks for Joe Roun here for the education (and any errors I made in the above are of course mine...)

Anyway... my theory is this SOMETHING was causing at least some of my cycling problems. At the very least I was putting something unknown and almost certainly undesirable into my aquarium.

So I decide to get rid of that tank, and went out and bought a couple rubbermaid 44 gallon trash cans. Cleaned them well, and will use them as additional storage. 










Now for the next problem -- it's a pain getting the water near the tank. I had bought a dolly which worked, but... it worked on really flat, really smooth floor. Getting over even tile joints was a pain and left marks, and getting over carpet was impossible.

So I also decided to build a dolly specifically for this.










First, the dolly has a rope in the middle which I can use to pull from the bottom (ever think about it -- pushing things on a dolly means pushing them OVER whenever the dolly stalls, say at a door threshold). Also, I bought BIG, specifically non-marking wheels: 










Those are 5", the ones on the original are probably half that size or smaller. Now it rolls nicely, and (though I am not yet full and ready to try it) I think even with 40 gallons of water will step nicely over carpet and thresholds. 

So I'm planning one more massive water change in all the tanks I have to get most of whatever this garbage was out of the water. 

The two tanks (45G and 220G) have both now almost completely cycled, the big no longer showing nitrites, the small just a trace after 4 days. 

I am still unsure whether something I did (maybe something in that big tank) killed the good bacteria, or just added so much organic that it overwhelmed them. But at least I seem to be coming to the end of that event. I hope.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Been a while, some fresh photos: 




























It's harder doing a 3 sided tank and keeping things looking clean and nice from both sides.

The wisteria is growing like mad, I cut a couple handfulls off each month.

The crypts are growing in nicely as well, a remain amazed how well those packaged, literally off-the-shelf cuttings did, no deaths or die-back at all. Though a lot of the fish root around in them and I have some broken leaves regularly.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Linwood said:


> However, on a bit of a lark I wanted to try a pleco cave. .... Decided to try an experiment and make my own, as I wanted them to blend in. So here's a story. Note I know absolutely nothing about working with this media, so advice welcomed; but I'm not letting absolute ignorance stop me.


Well, this whole Sculpy (it wasn't, but I understand that term is almost generic now) cave did not work.

I do not know why. It looked good, was the right size (more on that in a moment), I tried it on a couple different places (thinking the first had too much flow). I had plecos come explore it frequently, but no breeding.

Yet breeding is happening in the tank. At least one place is a bad cave in the driftwood -- bad as it has slits down the side and babies escape too early. Maybe other places, we have 3 or 4 different spawns based on size. None from this home made cave.

So on a whim I bought a clay cave from a LFS, from Cobalt I think. ALmost exactly the same size inside, just red instead of grey. I put it in another tank, and moved a male into that tank (where there was a female who had been there for a while).

Instant impact -- within a couple weeks the tank had a ton of babies come out. Now sadly they were all but two gone the next day, and none visible by the end of that day. I THINK mostly a raphael catfish ate them (he's the only thing big enough to eat that many and not explode). 

But... clearly the plecos are willing to breed, just not in my home made cave. At all.

So I removed and discarded it.

Bad taste to the hobby clay? Needed something real and seriously fired to be more like rock?

Too rough inside? Too smooth? (More likely the latter if texture is an issue). 

Didn't like grey? (Can they even see color?)

No idea... but experiment failed.


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## jimbo662 (Aug 4, 2013)

Great looking tank...loved the pics earlier of the angels / congos. I'm waiting on delivery on a DSA 175g with the overflows on one end. Plan was to put that end against a wall and kind of partition off my desk area. After seeing how you set it up behind the couch has me rethinking my plan. 

How did the worm infection turn out?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

jimbo662 said:


> How did the worm infection turn out?


So far as I can tell, completely cured by the Levamisole. My screw up with a bad water storage barrel got mixed in with it and made a mess, but the actual treatment seemed to go fine. I guess it will be a couple months total (so maybe end of March) before I know for sure, but optimistic.


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

Hey Linwood,

Its nice to read this journal.

I've read most (maybe not all) parts of your journal & I can relate to it in multiple ways. -The recent problems you are going thru - even I went through a forced overhaul of my tank in Dec/Jan. Its a test for how much you really really love this hobby I guess 
-I started keeping congos recently, stunning gems arent they!
-And I see that you started keep boesemanis recently, thats one more of my most favourite fish.


Nice writeup about PP and your experiments. Will read it fully later.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

adive said:


> -The recent problems you are going thru - even I went through a forced overhaul of my tank in Dec/Jan. Its a test for how much you really really love this hobby I guess


Yeah, maybe... Or a warning to people who plan a tank as a major piece of furniture. Once you commit to that, you HAVE to keep it going correctly. :help:


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## BulletToothBoris (Jan 17, 2013)

Great tank.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Digging the Congos. I recently got about 6 in my 125 and I love them! Beautiful color and very active. Great looking tank!


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## BeardedCrow81 (Mar 6, 2015)

Incredible tank and photos!
I'm happy but confused on why you used that filter? I bought a sunsun (same as yours) for my 120. I worried it was too cheap, how is yours fairing?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> Digging the Congos. I recently got about 6 in my 125 and I love them! Beautiful color and very active. Great looking tank!


Thanks. I like them as well, the males just keep growing bigger and bigger and more orange, and they seem happy with about a 1:1 ratio with females. The Rainbows I understand are the opposite, needing a large ration of dull females like 3:1, one reason I did not keep going with them.

The SAE's are becoming extremely entertaining also, very active, VERY fast. And the pleco breeding makes for some interest as well. I can sit and stare for hours and see new things the whole time.




BeardedCrow81 said:


> Incredible tank and photos!
> I'm happy but confused on why you used that filter? I bought a sunsun (same as yours) for my 120. I worried it was too cheap, how is yours fairing?


On this tank I have two SunSun 404's and a left over Fluval 306. Probably any two of those would be adequate, this gives me a bit of backup. 

I like the SunSun's a lot -- very large media areas, very easy to clean, and quiet. I just can't see a downside. I always do my own intakes and spray bars ever since I saw how easy it was, but the SunSun's work -- if a bit flimsy. But the Fluval only came with a nozzle, not a spray bar, and I hate their proprietary ribbed hose as I can't connect it to other stuff as easily as standard vinyl (which SunSun has). 

Does that help, or did I misunderstand your question?


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## BeardedCrow81 (Mar 6, 2015)

No, that was what I was looking for.
Yeah I would say for how large this filter is, it's the most silent filter I've ever had, even the tiny hang ons.
I'm wondering if the UV 9 watt would even do much? 

I'm using the factory tubing for the sunsun, so far it's working fine. When I did a water change, i noticed it was shooting a lot of water, so it seems the flow is fairly good still.

Since this is my first canister, I'm avoiding the addition of carbon to the canister, I don't want to open everything to get carbon in there, oh why didn't I do it before I setup?? Haha


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

BeardedCrow81 said:


> Since this is my first canister, I'm avoiding the addition of carbon to the canister, I don't want to open everything to get carbon in there, oh why didn't I do it before I setup?? Haha


I've tried it with Purigen (sort of like carbon) and without and frankly can't tell the difference. I have the purigen now so will likely keep recharging it, but the water was clear either way.


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

Linwood said:


> Thanks. I like them as well, the males just keep growing bigger and bigger and more orange, and they seem happy with about a 1:1 ratio with females. The Rainbows I understand are the opposite, needing a large ration of dull females like 3:1, one reason I did not keep going with them.


Dont give up on the bows  They are the best and you will keep seeing something new in them almost everyday. You can always keep only male bows. They will do fine with the congos (similar feeding speed)

In your congos does their orange-pink color extend into their finnage? In mine it does. Mine are just about an inch so I expect much more color to develop in the future.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

adive said:


> Dont give up on the bows  They are the best and you will keep seeing something new in them almost everyday. You can always keep only male bows. They will do fine with the congos (similar feeding speed)


I thought that the Rainbows would not develop strong colors with only males? 



adive said:


> In your congos does their orange-pink color extend into their finnage? In mine it does. Mine are just about an inch so I expect much more color to develop in the future.


Yes. The larger males are probably 3" long now, and the dorsal fin in particular is getting quite long and has a bit of orange in it. I'll try to get some closeups when I get a bit of time.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

I should get some pictures of my six bosemani rainbows that I put in my 125. I've got the Ich under control and their colors look phenominal. I do really like your congos. Beautiful tank btw, love reading through your journal. I'm always learning something. I too am going to start using potassium perm.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> I should get some pictures of my six bosemani rainbows that I put in my 125. I've got the Ich under control and their colors look phenominal. I do really like your congos. Beautiful tank btw, love reading through your journal. I'm always learning something. I too am going to start using potassium perm.


Please.

AS to the Potassium Permanganate, I remain a bit puzzled there. Every time I add it, the purple dissipates very rapidly (30-60 minutes) which means I have excess organics. It does that even after a hefty water change. It does it after a long period between water changes at about the same rate. 

I trust that it is doing good things, but I also think that is telling me I have some other problem I need to address, I just do not know how. Well, other than to keep adding it, but I am lery of using it too often. I need to go read and research a bit more.


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## Hetzer (Sep 23, 2012)

Beautiful tank, I think the stones look great with the shape and color contrasting well with the plants


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Hetzer said:


> Beautiful tank, I think the stones look great with the shape and color contrasting well with the plants


Thank you. I had hoped they were a bit more pink when wet, but they at least add a bit of color.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

*A few photos*

Didn't get a clear shot of the rainbows, but here are a few other denizens with concentration on the Congos that people seem to like.

These are unknown mollies, I think sailfins, but there's something weird with them, the first male was a large, bright yellow sailfin, but most new ones are more grey, tiny in comparison. This female looks like she is a sailfin as well. My guess is the three originals were different species and I'm getting hybrids. 










One of the SAE's, who rarely sit still long enough to shoot. Very fast, very entertaining. And the tank is clean of most algae except right up at the spray bar, which I think is too much flow.










and some congo shots: 




























OK, I'm sexists, I only shot the males. The females are half the size, a nice off tan but not nearly as colorful.

The male dorsal fin is very pretty but almost never extended up, always back. Some (like the second) have more color in it than others.


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## jimbo662 (Aug 4, 2013)

Great looking fish. I actually like the coloring on the mollie.


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

Linwood said:


> I thought that the Rainbows would not develop strong colors with only males?


They would I think. Maybe you wont see the "different colored line" extending from their heads backward that the males display while showing off to the females. A number of people have kept male only tanks. The males like to keep showing off to each other all the time and that brings out their color too IME.



Linwood said:


> Yes. The larger males are probably 3" long now, and the dorsal fin in particular is getting quite long and has a bit of orange in it. I'll try to get some closeups when I get a bit of time.


Great pics. The congo dorsal fin gets so long it just starts trailing I guess...

If a congo has "3 extended points" in its tail is it definitely a male? How do you sex them when they are 1 inch or lesser in length? What I mean is if I observe all my congos' tails, none of them have a regular shaped tale. All my congos have "3 extentions" in their tails - one each at the top, center and bottom when viewed from the fish's side. Does that mean they are all males?

By the way, not sure if you have your angels still. Did you ever face a concern that your angels were not getting their share of the food? The congos hogging it all up?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

I haven't updated anything in a long time as nothing much is happening - plants are growing (though more slowly than I thought), fish are swimming and eating. Life goes on.

I was killing some algae in a different tank (shrimp) and realized I never showed off my H2O2 squirting tool. I found the deep water in the 220 quite a challenge to spot treating algae, so made this:










It's a turkey syringe (one of the things for injecting flavor into a turkey before baking, about $4-6 most places, throw away it's needle which opens sideways), plus some stiff tubing (not airline, this is ridig) I got at a LFS for about $3, and a bit of hot glue (apply slowly as it will melt the plastic otherwise).

Works perfectly, I can inject all the way to the bottom without my hands disturbing the water.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I like the wisteria from the front. It is sad that it blocks out the driftwood from the other side, but that is the difficulty of a 3 sided tank. How does the H202 work for spot treating algae? I have some on my spray bar and some moss that is up near the surface. How much do you apply?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Freemananana said:


> I like the wisteria from the front. It is sad that it blocks out the driftwood from the other side, but that is the difficulty of a 3 sided tank. How does the H202 work for spot treating algae? I have some on my spray bar and some moss that is up near the surface. How much do you apply?


For my spray bar, I wait until i am changing water and it's exposed in air, pull off any long stands (any kind of brush works great, like an old tooth brush just to tangle in the strands), then I pour H2O2 on it to soak it. Works better than spot treating in water. 

I am pretty liberal with it. In the 220G I probably do a half dozen syringes full so probably almost 200ml. 

It works well for BBA, hair/staghorn, BGA. It does nothing at all to GSA, and whatever mystery black looking algae growing on my rocks, but I've started to think of that black (or very dark green) as part of the scenery. It may just be concentrated GSA.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

That's good to know. A rough estimate is all I really wanted. It gives me some ideas.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Freemananana said:


> That's good to know. A rough estimate is all I really wanted. It gives me some ideas.


I'd say a lot depends on the fish and how curious they are. If they are investigating I would use less, I think. or throw some food on the other side of the tank.

That's why I love this long thin tube -- it has almost no water disturbance to attract them. Very non-intrusive. Fish get bored with it quickly.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Very interesting! I'll have to come up with something similar. As much as I put my hands in my tank, my fish really don't see to come and check them out. At least, not within nipping range or anything.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Freemananana said:


> Very interesting! I'll have to come up with something similar. As much as I put my hands in my tank, my fish really don't see to come and check them out. At least, not within nipping range or anything.


Mine think any water disturbance is food, I think, so getting h2o2 in without disturbance keeps them away. 

But when I use my hands and say a small syringe, pulling my hand away moves a lot (relatively speaking) of water just above where I squirted, and it doesn't stay there. So being able to get it dispersed without your hands nearby is good regardless of fish, it needs some dwell time on the algae without water moving.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

It's been quite some time since I posted. My large tank has begun to reach a steady state, which is what I hoped. I am doing water changes only every month (and nitrates build only up to 25-30 in that time). The plants are a bit of a mystery, but are doing somewhat well. The Water Wisteria which had grown amazingly fast mostly died off -- it just stopped growing then melted away. The rotala slowed in growth and the leaves are smaller, but it is still growing reasonably well. The Crypt Wendtaii is going nuts, and is quite a forest around one end. I planted some small sprigs of it where the wisteria had been.

The Hydro which I had used as a fillter is doing well, though its growth slowed also (slow in this case is still pretty fast). I am slowly pulling it up as crypts and val take their place.

The Jungle Val is weird. In my smaller tank it is tiny but long; in this large tank it is huge and thick as well as long. It is as though it somehow is wider in the bigger environment. Recently it took off on a spreading spurt, after the prior 6 months or so of growing in length but not spreading. Within about 45 days I had about 3 times as many individual plants as before all growing rapidly. I now have to cut its length with some regularity in order to keep the flowing wide blades from casting too much shadow on the rest of the plants.

The Annubias keep growing fast (for them) but each leaf after a while gets covered in green spot algae and starts to yellow and die. It nets out as reasonably healthy but is pretty ugly, and I do not know what -- there's very little GSA anywhere else in the tank.

My plan (ok, "plan" is a bit of an exaggeration) is to let the crypts and val and rotala keep spreading more or less randomly to cover the substrate, not let the Vals go much further toward the "front" (left in the first shot), since that is where most people view the tank, and remove the Hydro as Crypts and Rotala fill in. I'll probably transplant some of one or the other into the guts of that stump at some point, only Hygro is there now. I put lots of java fern around the outside, some is looking OK, but it is not growing much or spreading.

My guess is that these changes (e.g. the failure of the wisteria) are from some kind of slower chemistry changes in the substrate and water over time, making is less attractive for it, but (for example) setting the Val's off on a take-over-the-tank growth spurt.

But I have mostly achieved the low maintenance I was looking for -- I change water once a month, and clean a filter most water changes (one of three) or maybe every other time. The biggest task now is feeding (every two days) and fertilizer (I do add something every day, aiming to get the balance right and testing and adjusting where I can). I keep thinking about a dosing system to get out of the daily add, but it takes all of about 1 minute to do two tanks.

Anyway, some recent photos.

Right side (people approach from the left of this photo toward the end of the tank):










Normal viewing end: 










Back side, facing the seating area of this room: 










I should have cleaned the sides, the photos highlight water spots pretty badly, but didn't notice them until I had downloaded the shots and am too lazy to go back and redo it.

Oh... stock... the Plecos breed like mad, but mostly feed the other fish. Each spawn seems to yield maybe one new pleco. I take a half dozen every few months in to the club meeting to give/auction. The Congos just keep getting bigger and bigger and more colorful. The tank used to look under-stocked, now with no additional fish, not so much (partly due to more plants taking up more space). 

There's 3 rainbows (one male) in there, plus 6 SAE and one lone Otto (there were seven, but six died in the first week -- darn pet stores).

What's also interesting is the Ramshorn snails have somehow reached a nice steady state. There are dozens in there, maybe even a hundred, but I think something is eating their eggs as they seem in a relatively steady state. For a while I was culling quite a few, but not in months now. I had a half dozen or so MTS in there (wild caught) but I think they all died, as I see no signs of them. I may try again for MTS to turn the sand over a bit. The big apple snail shells are just decorations (real shells from nearby, but not alive).

As always, comments welcome.


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Lin!! That looks absolutely phenomenal man! I've basically modeled my new 30l after yours


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## kevin jan2 (Sep 5, 2015)

You have no idea how jealous I am of your tank. I can't seem to nail down my water... I recently built a stand and modeled it after yours doesn't look nearly as good but hey i'm 24 and can't afford nice things so it fits in =)


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Thank you. I need to post more photos at some point, but basically it reached a nice steady state where I change the water monthly, the filters every 6 months or so (each, on a rotating basis) and prune. Everything seems fairly healthy and happy.


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