# Please help - algae and plant growth issues



## cruwl (Jun 19, 2015)

You need way more plants for that strong of a light. 

And you need some faster growing ones to out compete the algae. I used pennywort and anacharis is mine while all my other plants have been slowly growing in. I would have to trim these 2 plants weekly almost to keep them from getting to big. I'm slowly removing them now.

Co2- are you using any? Highly recommend seachen excel, but it may kill your vals I've heard.


Just my 2 cents.


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## ShukiAi (Jan 20, 2015)

cruwl said:


> You need way more plants for that strong of a light.


I have an old T8 that I could use, or some lamps with daylight bulbs. Should I use one of those until my plants (hopefully) start growing better?



cruwl said:


> Co2- are you using any? Highly recommend seachen excel, but it may kill your vals I've heard.


I'm not using any Co2 and I've heard that about Excel as well. I could possibly try dosing in small doses until they are used to it. I've read that's what some people have done. 

As for the plants you suggested - I'll give those a try!

Thank you SO much for your reply! :smile2:


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

too much light, too high PH, too few fast growing plants.

dimm the light with evilbuy remote dimmer if fixture uses external PSU. (https://www.diodeled.com/remote-control-inline-led-dimmer-switch.html)
dillute water gradually with RO to get yout PH down by at least 1 degree.
add easy fast growing plants (you have those inthere already)
add BN pleco and few ottos.


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## ShukiAi (Jan 20, 2015)

dzega said:


> too much light, too high PH, too few fast growing plants.
> 
> dimm the light with evilbuy remote dimmer if fixture uses external PSU. (https://www.diodeled.com/remote-control-inline-led-dimmer-switch.html)
> dillute water gradually with RO to get yout PH down by at least 1 degree.
> ...


Thank you for your feedback!

Unfortunately it doesn't look like I can use a dimmer with my LED lights. :frown2: So if I use an older T8 or some clip lamps, will that be okay? I've always used bulbs that had a rating of 6500K to grow plants, but I had issues with algae with those too... so many I should get less powerful bulbs???

Also, I heard RO water can get expensive when buying it by the gallon. Is there any other way to lower my pH?

Thank you again.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

ShukiAi said:


> Also, I heard RO water can get expensive when buying it by the gallon. Is there any other way to lower my pH?


You can get an under-the-sink RO system. Will still cost you $$$, but if going through a lot of RO water, it will be much cheaper in the long run.

However, usually the recommendation is to adapt to your water type rather than try to change it. My pH is higher than yours. Yes, I have algae, but it's kept under control with some adjustments to light, ferts, plant types, and the addition of algae eaters. I would never consider the hassle and cost of RO water unless maybe it was just for one small low tech tank. Oh, and I already have an RO system. I installed it to improve our drinking water. So even though I already have one, I still don't think it's worth the time or the cost of more frequent RO filter changes to use it to lower the pH of my freshwater tanks.


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## ShukiAi (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks for the info... yeah, I was really hoping not to get into RO water. 

So, for now, I think what I have to do is...

1. Change my lighting - the LEDs are too powerful. Could I hang the LED strip higher? Would that help? Or again, what type of bulb should I use if I switch to a T8 or compact florescent? I think the daylight/6500K bulbs are too strong too... or maybe not?

2. Get more plants

3. Add ferts - I think I'll try doing small doses of Excel 

Does that sound like a decent plan?


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

> 1. Change my lighting - the LEDs are too powerful. Could I hang the LED strip higher? Would that help? Or again, what type of bulb should I use if I switch to a T8 or compact florescent? I think the daylight/6500K bulbs are too strong too... or maybe not?
> 
> 2. Get more plants
> 
> 3. Add ferts - I think I'll try doing small doses of Excel


A single T8 build? Hard to get too much light out of that. However, I'd start with raising your LED lighting. You can also add some surface plants that spread quickly.

Yes, more plants, and a variety to see what works.

Yes, add Ferts to help with growth. Excel is not a fert. It's a carbon source meant to help with low CO2 conditions in low tech tanks. It will help with growth and also kills some algae. You'll also want to look for a fert source with macros and micros.


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

I've read about putting wax paper over LED's to soften/spread the light angle, so they aren't so intense. It's easy and cheap. I've not tried it.


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## mikluha (Dec 4, 2015)

> Nitrate: 30 ppm (this is really high - normally it’s around 5 to 10pmm. Could be ‘cause I haven’t done a water change in almost 3 weeks because of the holidays… oops)
> Phosphate: 0.5ppm


This is the reason. You have "free food"+light and not enough "eaters". So here comes the algae for free snack.

Your only long term solution is:

1) Reduce nutrients (that's why phosphate filtration helps - if you need to filter phosphate skip buying overpriced stuff and get GFO on eBay - dirt cheap) - change water more often
2) Increase number of plants, especially fast growers.
3) Fertilizing and CO2. Yes, surface agitation reduce O2 concentration in water


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## jr125 (Mar 5, 2015)

mikluha said:


> This is the reason. You have "free food"+light and not enough "eaters". So here comes the algae for free snack.
> 
> Your only long term solution is:
> 
> ...


You can add reduce light to this list.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Also, please read:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...-help-me-understand-ei-dosing.html#post773801

Debunks excess ferts as the cause for algae. You should not have to reduce your nitrates or phosphates. My nitrates are 50ppm out of the tap. However, you do need to make sure you have enough of everything to meet your plants demands, so you probably need to dose other ferts. With ample ferts in place, you then need to look at CO2 and lighting. Too much light and too little CO2 equals algae. That does not mean you need to add CO2. You can also go with lower lighting. However, CO2 with low lighting is probably the easiest to keep algae free.

My low light tanks (no CO2 or Excel) are for the most part algae free except on some really old anubias leaves (I'm sure the amanos and nerites are helping here). My high light tank is much more of a challenge, even though it has CO2. There is some algae that algae crew just doesn't care to eat, like GSA and BBA. If/when it turns up, I need to do some adjusting. Fortunately it only seems to turn up when I've neglected the tank (skipping weakly 50% water change, skipping daily EI dosing, not keeping up with the DIY CO2).


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## ShukiAi (Jan 20, 2015)

Wow... I love this forum. You are all so very helpful and I'm so appreciative! 

For the lighting, I think I may try that wax paper trick and/or try to hang the fixture. This may sound like a dumb question, but how high should I hang it? Are we talking 6 inches above the tank? A foot? Two feet? I don't want to reduce the light too much.  Otherwise, would purchasing a Finnex Stingray LED strip (or other "lesser" LED) be better in the long run? 

Also, I'm going to be getting more plants. Where would you guys suggest buying from online? I love Planted Aquariums Central, but she's out sick for a few weeks. 

And my last questions... what ferts would be best? Would Flourish and Flourish Excel be good? Or is there another kind that's better? Also... was that a no to the air stone? 

THANK YOU for putting up with me and all my questions!


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

For the height of the light, you just need to experiment. I'm not sure how bright the FugeRay is. From the specs it uses about 33% more wattage than a Stingray. I'm not sure if it is also close to that much brighter. If it is, then it's not excessively bright and maybe you don't need to raise it that high. I'd start with 4", and work your way up if needed. You might even want to bring it back down after you get all the other changes in place and the algae is under control, or up further if you still have problems.

For fertz, Flourish is just micros. You need to make sure you have macros to. I mix my own. There's some good info in this thread:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html

And all the stickies on this page:

Estimative Index - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report

Most of the EI info is w.r.t. high light CO2 tanks, but I use it in my low light tanks too. I just use 1/3 the amount.

And if you are new to EI, in short, you dose an amount of ferts (usually daily) that you know is at least enough for your plants. Since this means you are likely overdosing, you do a 50% water change each week. This prevents any nutrient level from getting to levels where they can cause problems. You don't need to bother with testing, other than you'll want to know initial levels that come out of your tap so you can adjust how much of everything you need. For example, I don't add any KNO3 since mine is already 40-50ppm coming out of the tap. I think the estimate is that even high light high growth tanks generally don't use more than 30-40ppm. Therefore there's no point in me adding more.


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## ShukiAi (Jan 20, 2015)

This was very helpful, thank you so much!


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## cruwl (Jun 19, 2015)

cjp999 said:


> For fertz, Excel is just micros. You need to make sure you have macros to. I mix my own.



Seachem Florish Excel is CO2 - it's a carbon source
Seachem florish - are micro ferts
You also need Macro ferts as well.

The forums here have amazing sellers, you can find all the plants you need, you can find the ferts you need both micro and macro at a very affordable price. look for a post from nilocg, he has some really easy to use fert options.

Heck give me 2-3 weeks and ill ship you a ton of anacharis for just shipping.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

cruwl said:


> Seachem Florish Excel is CO2 - it's a carbon source
> Seachem florish - are micro ferts


Sorry, was typing too fast. I've corrected my post. Have always hated how Seachem tosses around the Flourish in product names, yet have one product called just "Flourish".


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## ShukiAi (Jan 20, 2015)

cruwl said:


> Seachem Florish Excel is CO2 - it's a carbon source
> Seachem florish - are micro ferts
> You also need Macro ferts as well.
> 
> ...


Fantastic! I'll browse around the forum and see what I can find. 

And really!? I would LOVE for you to send me some anacharis. I'd definitely pay for shipping. Could you PM me when you have some ready?

Thanks!


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## The Yeti (Oct 1, 2015)

I would do a DIY co2 as a cheap easy fix to help control algae. I run my lights for an easy 12 hrs and don't have any algae issues but then again all of my plants are fast growing. I don't even use ferts anymore.

In my small tank i find that nerite snails and amano shrimp are amazing at eating algae before I did a diy co2 there. Can't hurt to add them.


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## ShukiAi (Jan 20, 2015)

The Yeti said:


> I would do a DIY co2 as a cheap easy fix to help control algae. I run my lights for an easy 12 hrs and don't have any algae issues but then again all of my plants are fast growing. I don't even use ferts anymore.


I've always been a little nervous about CO2. But maybe I'll look into it more. 



The Yeti said:


> In my small tank i find that nerite snails and amano shrimp are amazing at eating algae before I did a diy co2 there. Can't hurt to add them.


And I have a few nerites in the tank already.  I just don't think they can keep up. And I'd love to have shrimp, but my tetras gobble them right up. ^_^;;


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## The Yeti (Oct 1, 2015)

ShukiAi said:


> I've always been a little nervous about CO2. But maybe I'll look into it more.
> 
> 
> 
> And I have a few nerites in the tank already.  I just don't think they can keep up. And I'd love to have shrimp, but my tetras gobble them right up. ^_^;;


I can't believe how easy the DIY co2 was to set up. On my 20g tank the citric acid/baking soda mix lasts for nearly 4weeks, while my 60g maks it to just about 3 weeks. It is super cheap and easy to do. Take it from a guy who doesn't know a thing about fish tanks. All I know is cars.

Trial and error is how I learned to keep a balanced tank because there is just so much conflicting info on the web. So many opinions makes it hard to figure out what works best.

My 20 gallon tank has 10 neons, 2 danios and 7 mollies and no one messes with my amano shrimp. The amano's are just as big as the mollies. I've watch the shrimp come out of the drift wood and snatch food away from the fish lol.


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## ShukiAi (Jan 20, 2015)

*UPDATE*










So after 6 hours of work, here is my tank now! I stopped by my local Petco and they had some really nice plants. I was quite surprised. So I started out by taking all my old plants and cleaning off the algae. I also took the plants I had in my 10 gallon (they weren't doing well either), cleaned those as well, and added them to the 30 gallon along with the new plants. So now I think I have twice as much as I've ever had. So a pretty full tank... at least for me.  I think it's a pretty good start. And I have some floating plants coming in the mail. 

So hopefully with the light raised and adding ferts I can finally have a decent looking tank! *crosses fingers*


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