# ammania gracilis problems



## jolywoo (May 6, 2006)

This plant has been difficult for me to grow and i've been trying for several years already. I think this is my 3rd attempt.
Recently, I started making progress with this plant when I increased both circulation and co2. As a result, the new growth wasn’t burned looking or deformed, which was my main problem with this plant in the past. New growth has been much better, but still kinda small and droopy. Now the problem I am seeing is with the older ammania leaves which are very cupped at the edges. 

This is a 30 gallon tank
96 watt pc lights
I am using EI fertilization 3 times per week and 2 tsp of gh booster after water change.
Pressurized co2 with 5dkh solution in drop checker showing light green in the morning, and yellow in the afternoon.
Co2 diffuser - rhinox 2000


This is what the plant looked like about a month ago. You can see the new growth from one badly stunted stem. This was about the time I added an extra powerhead and increased the co2 bubble rate significantly (bubbles too fast to count), and started adding excel.









A month later I have several stems. Usually, new growth would stunt after a few days. So far so good, but you can see the cupped leaves on older growth.









Heres a full tank shot. I have no problem growing the other plants (stargrass, M. umbrosum, java fern, marselia). No algae problems either.









any ideas on whats causing this?


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## jolywoo (May 6, 2006)

Thanks, I'll try increasing the traces. Im thinking maybe I'll use my liquid solution of csm and dose 6ml everyday.
My tank is tall, it’s a hexagon tank that’s almost 2 feel tall. I've been really wanting to grow a nice stand of ammania in the background to add some color to the tank.

Just wondering, how much traces are you dosing, and what size tank do you have?


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Why are you dosing gH?


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## jolywoo (May 6, 2006)

thanks for the tank stats ashappar. I forgot to mention that I also increased my kno3 from 1/4tsp to 1/2tsp for the past 2 weeks, but I did not see any difference. Im definitely going to try increasing traces starting tomorrow (water change day).


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## jolywoo (May 6, 2006)

Overfloater said:


> Why are you dosing gH?


I started dosing gh booster a while ago to see if it would improve ammania gracils. It may have helped slightly, not sure though. I am keeping it in my dosing routine just to make sure I am not limiting on Ca or Mg. My tap water gh is around 3.


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Your conditions are similar to mine and I grow ammania no problem. The only thing different in your tank is your low pH. Are you using RO water to keep your pH that low? Or is your CO2 driving it down that much? What is the pH of your tap water?


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Ahh alright I thought that was his pH....wow that low huh? Thats crazy.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Personally, I would skip the gH booster. I have had a tank running with 1 degree of kH and gH for quite some time and have never seen any deficiency. 

Since Tom has been a prominent figure in the dosing arena, I have seen many people dosing quite alot of nutrients. IME I have had much better luck dosing very lean than rich as Tom has endorsed over the years. On a related note, most nice tanks I have seen are run on the lean side and do not use EI.


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## jolywoo (May 6, 2006)

Hi Overfloater, I agree with you on the gh booster. I probably dont have to add so much after water change, and will probably lessen, or stop adding it completely in the future. For now, Im going to see how the plant responds to the traces. I'll be changing one parameter at a time till I find the solution.

As for EI, I feel I need a lot of nutrients especially with the plant mass I have, plus I have some really fast growing plants in the tank such as stargrass, hornwort, and floating water hyacinths. EI is also easy for me to use.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

You are welcome to do what you like but I suggest you skip dosing for a few weeks and see what happens.


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## jim lockhart (Apr 26, 2007)

Wanted to chime in on this thread. Like you I have stuggled with this plant for years, but I'm glad to say, had some success lately. 

1st though, are you sure you have A. gracilis ? those downward arcing leaves are more typical of A. senegalensis ? However the plant is not doing well so it just may be a related problem.









In this pic, the pink plant on the left is Ag, as is the pink ugly one on the right. I'm getting most stems these days look more like the one on the left ! 

I've seen the plant prosper in some different conditions, which has thrown me off in the past. What I recommend from my experience:

N03 5ppm
PO4 .5 ppm
K ~ 12ppm 
Ca 30-40
Mg 8-10
I use Tmg for micros, dosed at 1.5 to 2 times recommended dosing.

However I think the secret to successful growth is a consistent environment. I would suggest you dose your EI daily, same dose, just figure out what it would be spread out to a daily basis. You may even one to spread it out over two weeks with a WC at the end of each 2-week period, I dont think heavy fertilization is really nec for Ag. The plants in the picture are still growing in that same tank, < 2 wpg, moderate fertilization

Hope you can turn this around, this is a really beautiful plant when it is healthy. You can tell something about the health from the stem, it should not really be dark red, more a pinkish green, and the centre of the growing tip should be a luminescent green, turning to that nice ping color about 1/4" into the leave. older leaves will be a more brownish pink (champagne color ?). If the stem at the growing tip darkens to deep red, the leaves are likely about to deform or stunt. I still get this happening, but most stems are healthy with this regime.


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## jim lockhart (Apr 26, 2007)

ashappar said:


> awww, and I like the deep red stems. I'm still nailing mine with TMG at higher doses, the rest of the tank seems ok with the change and I'm getting lots of branches on the Ag. Jollywoo - good luck. and Jim thanks for sharing your experience with the plant. Its nice to see more in the Plants forum than just 'ID my plants please'


Ashappar, Ag became a bit of a science project for me, and wanted to share what I came up with. I'm certainly not saying this is the only way, no, not by a long shot. I'm still amazed at what happens to plants in different hobbyest's tanks. I know I can turn it more red by upping PO4, but the result is not a healthy looking plant IMO. I think more Fe would be the next thing I would try if I wanted more red, sounds like more TMG will do it !


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## jolywoo (May 6, 2006)

nice post Jim. What a difference between the two stems in your photo. Did you do anything different in your tank that would have caused the ammania to finally grow in normally?

Thanks to everyone for providing some really good advice. I will let you guys know if I find the solution to my problem, hopefully more traces will solve this.


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## jim lockhart (Apr 26, 2007)

Jolywoo, 

it's a little bit misleading the good plant grew some weeks after the deformed one. Just wanted to show the contrast. Pic was taken a while ago, and I dont really remember what occurred exactly.

Generally , try for consistent daily conditions, with ferts on the lean side. Give what ever you try a couple of weeks to show improvement.

Good Luck with your Ag !

Jim.


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