# Shrimp molted, then died. literally.



## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Your ph has already nullified the effects of ammonia damage. I don't think ammonia is to blame. 
The stats you posted are fine, you will have to think outside the box of what may be causing it as it may not always be the most obvious reasons (ie. improper stats).


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

something also to consider is the lack of calcium supplement so that their soft shell is strong enough to pull through a molt. I've been considering adding one of those calcium stones that you see for turtle tanks. ive only been witness to 2 bad molts and any death is a terrible one...


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

acitydweller said:


> something also to consider is the lack of calcium supplement so that their soft shell is strong enough to pull through a molt. I've been considering adding one of those calcium stones that you see for turtle tanks. ive only been witness to 2 bad molts and any death is a terrible one...


I was thinking this... I use 1.2 mL of Fluval Shrimp Mineral Supplement per 1 Gallon of RO water. Thus that gives me the 5 GH. What hits me is when they die, their gills? the front part of their body opens up like wings.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

5gh is perfectly fine for them. And ammonia shouldn't cause deaths after molting, just in general.

Not sure really whats wrong.. this has been going on for a while you said?


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> I was thinking this... I use 1.2 mL of Fluval Shrimp Mineral Supplement per 1 Gallon of RO water. Thus that gives me the 5 GH. What hits me is when they die, their gills? the front part of their body opens up like wings.


I just peeled back the label off my fluval mineral supplement bottle.
it doesnt list calcium or any ingredients for that matter and has affect on Calcium.

Did you recently perform a Water change? This may cause them to molt albeit prematurely at times.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

A PH of 6.0 is not that good for Cherries...are they breeding? if they are then I'm surprised.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> 5gh is perfectly fine for them. And ammonia shouldn't cause deaths after molting, just in general.
> 
> Not sure really whats wrong.. this has been going on for a while you said?


Yeah like 1 week. One little cherry or two die per day.



hedge_fund said:


> A PH of 6.0 is not that good for Cherries...are they breeding? if they are then I'm surprised.


No they are not breeding. I just moved them to this tank from another tank.
Maybe 6.0 PH is the cause... because the tank they came from is like 6.8 or 7 PH.

I have been changing the water 1 Gallon per day in the last 2 days. I use Glacier Drinking water vending machine and Fluval Shrimp Mineralizer only.

I guess lacking of calcium? What should I get?

Maybe just the tank is new? Its only been setup for like 6 weeks.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

I'd bet the pH is too low. 
Are you using a pH pen to test it?
If not it is possible it is even lower


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## NeonFlux (Apr 10, 2008)

Did you do anything to the substrate, by any chance? Sorry to hear your cherries dropping dead.. it has happened to me before, and it wasn't nice..


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Chlorophile said:


> I'd bet the pH is too low.
> Are you using a pH pen to test it?
> If not it is possible it is even lower


No I'm using API ph liquid test kit.
The color is Pretty yellow means ph 6.0 or lower.



NeonFlux said:


> Did you do anything to the substrate, by any chance? Sorry to hear your cherries dropping dead.. it has happened to me before, and it wasn't nice..


No, its a newly setup tank. Its been more than 6 weeks. I use 5kg/ 11 lb of substrate called Yubao.
It is an experimental substrate... I never try it, I cant even read it because its all printed in Japanese. No info over the internet either. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/153412-substrate-choices-pros-cons-9.html#post1786691

Anyone can read Japanese would like to help me?


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

I would get something to up your PH a bit and see if that helps. As well as some calcium suppliment to put back in the water. I think those are the big issues. .25 ammonia is not a good thing, but I think it would cause death in a more dramatic form of more shrimp being dead. 

How did you acclimate the shrimp when you moved them, slow dripped I hope? Not a plop and rop.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I have cherries breeding like rabbits in this tank with 5.7/5.8 pH. So not sure the 6.0 pH is an issue. Anything from 6-8 is perfect for Neos.

The Ammonia could be the issue but as others have mentioned, you would have likely experienced deaths prior to now.

Kicking the bucket right after a molt leads me to believe it's an issue with their diet. Consider adding some cuttlebone to your tank, feeding spinach and other foods rich in calcium and go easy on the animal protein-rich foods.

Don't do anything to your tank for a week or two just to be safe and make sure everything is stable.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> I have cherries breeding like rabbits in this tank with 5.7/5.8 pH. So not sure the 6.0 pH is an issue. Anything from 6-8 is perfect for Neos.
> 
> The Ammonia could be the issue but as others have mentioned, you would have likely experienced deaths prior to now.
> 
> ...



So really Fluval Shrimp Mineralizer things dont have any calcium in it?
For cuttle bone, dont they sell the whole big bone at petsmart/ petco.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep - you can usually pick up a cuttlebone for about a buck at either of those stores.

The Fluval stuff is okay but a better option would be Mosura Mineral Plus Ultra - available from a couple different sellers in the SnS & Power Sellers section.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

somewhatshocked said:


> I have cherries breeding like rabbits in this tank with 5.7/5.8 pH. So not sure the 6.0 pH is an issue. Anything from 6-8 is perfect for Neos.
> 
> The Ammonia could be the issue but as others have mentioned, you would have likely experienced deaths prior to now.
> 
> ...


Mine stop breeding when the PH drops below 6.4.


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## shrimp pliskin (Mar 16, 2012)

A once a month dose of Kent iodine will put an end to your molting deaths.


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## foogie (Dec 26, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> No, its a newly setup tank. Its been more than 6 weeks. I use 5kg/ 11 lb of substrate called Yubao.
> It is an experimental substrate... I never try it, I cant even read it because its all printed in Japanese. No info over the internet either. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/153412-substrate-choices-pros-cons-9.html#post1786691
> 
> Anyone can read Japanese would like to help me?



the substrate is called shrimp best sand- it's a heat treated sterile natural granulated volcanic ash soil. It has water retention capabilities, air permeability, and water permeability, and helps to prevent sudden changes of water quality during water changes.

It's all natural, environmentally friendly, and does not contain coloring. It will help water stay at neutral pH to slightly acidic. It is functional as water filterer, helping to clear water of discoloration from driftwood or other impurities, and contains nutrient weeds. it says its ideal for breeding and rearing of shrimp (for the size of granule as well as the ability of small shrimps to clean the surface of the substrate), and promotes development of aquatic plants (though I don't think it contains fertilizers).

It's principal components are 48.2% silica, 23.9 aluminum oxide, 11.3 ferric oxide. The other chart on the bag tells you how much of the substrate to use for different sized aquariums (90cm aquarium holding 157 liters requires three 8kg bags of substrate)

It says you don't need to wash/rinse it before using, it says not to mix with other gravels. Says something about collapsing in shape during water changes, so be careful. It also says that when the tank is first set up, you will get unstable nitrite levels. there's also other things like be careful with filter flow not to disturb the substrate etc, not to use undergravel filters etc etc etc... also the substrate isn't suitable for cichids or koi or satwater/brackish tanks because of the alkalinity.


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## ucantimagine (Jan 8, 2012)

If considering a different substrate, why not akadama double red line? All the most successful shrimpkeepers here use it. You can buy it here too.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

foogie said:


> the substrate is called shrimp best sand- it's a heat treated sterile natural granulated volcanic ash soil. It has water retention capabilities, air permeability, and water permeability, and helps to prevent sudden changes of water quality during water changes.
> 
> It's all natural, environmentally friendly, and does not contain coloring. It will help water stay at neutral pH to slightly acidic. It is functional as water filterer, helping to clear water of discoloration from driftwood or other impurities, and contains nutrient weeds. it says its ideal for breeding and rearing of shrimp (for the size of granule as well as the ability of small shrimps to clean the surface of the substrate), and promotes development of aquatic plants (though I don't think it contains fertilizers).
> 
> ...


Thank you so much dude!
But the weird thing is no nitrite spike is visual when I test the water. But it does shows some ammonia still .25




ucantimagine said:


> If considering a different substrate, why not akadama double red line? All the most successful shrimpkeepers here use it. You can buy it here too.


Well I was thinking of that but can't find any local... Plus if there any, it would be a 2 hour drive to get akadama and its 30 bucks per bag.

This substrate was an impulse buying because... idk lol.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Akadama has it's own problems too, hah!

The pH is too low. I'd guess around 5 if you had a digital pH meter or low range test kit.

Neocaridina just are not suited to that pH, they die slowly, over the span of months. Believe me, I had a struggle to get my pH up for keeping and breeding them, because my pH with no additives and just aquasoil (any brand) is pH 5. They do that death thing with the open gills (which is symptomatic of a difficult molt). What I did to fix my pH for neocaridina was put a handful of crushed coral in the filter or on top of the substrate. Wait a week test the pH again, and if it's still low, put another handful on the substrate or in the filter. In my 50 gallon with akadama, it took 3 pounds of coral to get my pH to 7.5


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Akadama has it's own problems too, hah!
> 
> The pH is too low. I'd guess around 5 if you had a digital pH meter or low range test kit.
> 
> Neocaridina just are not suited to that pH, they die slowly, over the span of months. Believe me, I had a struggle to get my pH up for keeping and breeding them, because my pH with no additives and just aquasoil (any brand) is pH 5. They do that death thing with the open gills (which is symptomatic of a difficult molt). What I did to fix my pH for neocaridina was put a handful of crushed coral in the filter or on top of the substrate. Wait a week test the pH again, and if it's still low, put another handful on the substrate or in the filter. In my 50 gallon with akadama, it took 3 pounds of coral to get my pH to 7.5


So you boosted kh to buffer the acidity of the water?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Yes, I suppose I did! Neocaridina have no problem with a higher KH, and actually prefer it. This would probably not produce great results in a tank with crystal shrimp though. My crystal shrimp tanks and all tiger tanks are all pH 5, and that is working great for them.

EDIT: be sure to take care of your ammonia problem before raising the pH. Once pH approaches 7, ammonia will be toxic.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

On the crushed coral front... 

If you've got a dark-colored substrate and don't want to make things messy, it's easy to put crushed coral in some black pantyhose/stockings and hide it behind moss or plants.


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## ucantimagine (Jan 8, 2012)

Yea I don't think anyone has found the perfectly flawless substrate yet. lol But at least there's plenty of experience here with akadama. That other stuff...could be great but how would we know? Sometimes experiments lead to headaches. lol
I tried to find something else because of the price, but I'm glad I went the the akadama. Other than it being terribly dusty, it's been good. Somehow, I think the shrimp like it. lol They pick it up and carry it around sometimes. haha "My pebble!" 
1 bag was enough for my 20 long.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

ucantimagine said:


> Yea I don't think anyone has found the perfectly flawless substrate yet. lol But at least there's plenty of experience here with akadama. That other stuff...could be great but how would we know? Sometimes experiments lead to headaches. lol
> I tried to find something else because of the price, but I'm glad I went the the akadama. Other than it being terribly dusty, it's been good. Somehow, I think the shrimp like it. lol They pick it up and carry it around sometimes. haha "My pebble!"
> 1 bag was enough for my 20 long.



Hmm so I guess the amount of substrate is the problem maybe. I am using 5kg/ 11lb of this substratefor a 10 gallon tank. Maybe I need to cut it in half perhaps?


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## plamski (Sep 25, 2009)

Your PH is too low and you have too much water changes.I have CRS,CBS,blue tiger,BKK,Red tigers and K14 all of them are kind of OK and they are breeding exept RCS.I lost more than 300 for a year.PH 5.5-6.7,GH4-5 KH0.I have one 10gal tank at work with tap water PH 8 Gh3 kh3,water changes every 4 months,nitrate are 20-40.There are swordtail pair,some neon tewtras and one male betta and 200-300 cherry shrimps.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

shrimp pliskin said:


> A once a month dose of Kent iodine will put an end to your molting deaths.


please explain.. 

it looks like a cardinal did that..


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Yes, I suppose I did! Neocaridina have no problem with a higher KH, and actually prefer it. This would probably not produce great results in a tank with crystal shrimp though. My crystal shrimp tanks and all tiger tanks are all pH 5, and that is working great for them.
> 
> EDIT: be sure to take care of your ammonia problem before raising the pH. Once pH approaches 7, ammonia will be toxic.


I am wondering if this is my problem. My cherries and yellows are been dying off, the cherries not so much but the yellows in my 10gal looked like they molted or were half molted and then died. I tried to pull some off but didn't help, and had deaths every other day. Lost half my population, treated with all kinds of meds, no cloudy bodies, just dead shrimp half molted or 99% molted. pH is 7.6, gH is 8, kH is only 3. My tigers are doing fine and tested their tank pH 7.4, gH is 8, kH is 6. I think the eco-complete/fluval mix is buffering the kH down or something and it's affecting the shrimp. The tiger tank only has black sand, and they both have tap water. In fact the tiger tank has distilled mixed in so the tap pH is probably 7-8, and the yellow tank is dragging it down to 3. Hope they do better in the tiger tank. No deaths since they've been moved there.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

i add, 1/4 teaspoon of gh booster to my 10 gallon rcs tank once weekly. i try to get clumps because my shrimp munch on it 
gh starts at 4 from my tap

i don't have molting deaths but i also feed a wide variety of food which i hear helps.. i feed biomax #2
cooked zuchini, bloodworms, mysis shrimp, and dried veggie flakes sometimes


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## kai1682k (May 13, 2011)

I did couple experiment myself with ph 5.0-6.0 temp 74 tds around 150-190 in 55 gallons tank i try cherries/blue rili/yellow/blue pearl/green 

the will slowly die


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

kai1682k said:


> I did couple experiment myself with ph 5.0-6.0 temp 74 tds around 150-190 in 55 gallons tank i try cherries/blue rili/yellow/blue pearl/green
> 
> the will slowly die


Yup, obviously the people that have them in low pH tanks have some special in their substrate/water/etc that helps keep them alive but for most of us, it seems a low pH = death over time for neo's. 



As for my yellows, no deaths yet since going into the tiger tank. I think the eco/fluval mix is doing something weird to the water and buffering the kH down too low for my neo's. I have more crystal babies than cherries. People breed cherries in ponds, cups, water jugs yet mine aren't doing well. Only thing I can think is my eco/fluval mix is about 14months old and doing something weird to the tap water. I'm going redo my tanks and ditch the soil and go inert gravel.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

One low grade red rill died.
Case settled. Neos can't live in <6.0 PH environment.

btw how to test ph lower than 6.0?
inexpensive one preferably.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> One low grade red rill died.
> Case settled. Neos can't live in <6.0 PH environment.
> 
> btw how to test ph lower than 6.0?
> inexpensive one preferably.


Some of the test companies do make a liquid low pH test kit or get a meter. I got one from fleabag coming for about 6bucks that does 0-14pH.


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## gtu2004 (Feb 17, 2010)

sayurasem said:


> No I'm using API ph liquid test kit.
> The color is Pretty yellow means ph 6.0 or lower.
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't say much except promoting the substrate is good for shrimps+plants. healthy plants keep water clean, and that this substrate is not suitable for cichlids that like alkaline water.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Remodeled my tank. I'm going to use this substrate as PH buffers 
I think its better than peat moss. It doesn't leech tannins so I think its good.
5kg of ph buffering for $20 do you think its cheap?


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## jemminnifener (Nov 23, 2011)

I added cuttlebone that I got from the bird's section at the petstore. It was less than $2 and I broke off a small piece and threw it into the tank. Before, I would see shrimp with what looked like pieces of old shell still on their body after an incomplete molt but I haven't seen that since I put in the cuttlebone.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

I've never had luck with cherries in low ph/extra soft water. They don't all die off, but they don't thrive either and deaths after molting are much more common. They prefer alkaline, slightly hard water. They'll breed like crazy in typical Southern California tap water.


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