# 1 month on with serious hair algae problem + Macro/Micro and CO²



## breakaway (Jan 21, 2010)

I've got a 50Gal (200L) tank, with pressurized CO² and a Rhinox 5000 diffuser. It is lit by Two Twin 39W Glo T5HO Fixtures (156W total). Filtration is a Fluval 205 Canister. 

I'm dosing Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish Potassium, Flourish Phosphorus as per the instructions on the back of the bottle on Tuesday and Friday. I'm dosing Flourish Comprehensive on Wednesday and Sunday. I do 50% water change on Sunday BEFORE dosing Flourish Comprehensive. I designed this dosing regime so as to maintain the maximum amount of nutrients in the water column for plants at all times.

I've had this hair algae problem for a while now, and I just can't seem to shake it. It's everywhere:

On the plants









On the substrate/substrate plants



















On the filter inlet/outlet









and also on the tank walls.

It's incredibly hard to remove (I use a toothbrush), as there's just so much of it and I can never get it all off. Also, if I remove it, it's back to just as bad as it was within about 36 or so hours.

So far I've tried:


Reducing lighting (down to 8 hours)
Getting pressurized CO² (only had DIY CO² when this problem started)
Dosing NPK and Flourish comprehensive as per recommendations made here.
Tried bleaching really badly affected plants - however this had a very detrimental effect on the plants - they lost all their leaves and it didn't really seem to help in the long run - the algae just grew back.

And none of it seems to have helped. It didn't even slow down the algae. I'm on the verge of tearing everything down and rebuilding, just because I can't get rid of this.

I was expecting to see at least some improvement after 1 month, but there seems to be none.

*Now what is the next step?*

I want to try H2O2, but for that I have to move all my fish (7 dwarf puffers, 4 khuli loaches and 3 oto cats) to a smaller tank for a while. 

I'd rather not do the full-tear down and re-start as that'd mean having to re-cycle the tank.


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## ryndisher (Jun 1, 2010)

You said you tried flourish comprehensive but if im correct i believe the one that kills algae is flourish excel. Maybe you could try that if you haven't, Or you could allways do a 5 day blackout to remove it all.


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## breakaway (Jan 21, 2010)

I started dosing flourish comprehensive so that the plants grow well, and then the algae problem would 'correct itself'? Is this not the way it works?


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## Lycosa (Oct 16, 2006)

I haven't seen a full 'scape' shot of your tank, but it looks like your heavily planted. I wouldn't stop using your ferts at all for any reason unless you are completely overdosing. Stopping your ferts is never the answer.

Are you getting enough water movement with all those plants? Low water movement means less nutrients available to the plants, means less oxygen to aerobic bacteria = algae. 

Nutrient transport is required in order to get those nutrients to your plants. Having them in the water column isn't enough. Increase water flow in your tank and you should stimulate the growth of some of the underfed plants. 

If detritus is an issue on the bottom of your tank, either stock a bunch of 'shredder' type inverts like snails or shrimp or carefully vacuum your gravel to get as much of those large decomposing organics out of the tank. 

Step up the oxygen in the tank in order to give the aerobic bacteria a boost so they can break down the rest of the smaller decomposing organics into plant-usable food efficiently.

You are correct that algae issues can/will correct themselves in a balanced system.. but, once they have a good strong foothold, it's a long and difficult road without some intervention. The other worry is that some of your plants will weaken and die before the battle is won. Manually remove as much as you can without disturbing your plants too much. Dying algae release food for a new generation to grow so the more you can get out, the better off you'll be.

Just be vigilant with your water changes, correct the imbalances, and get those plants to maximize their growth given the equipment you have on hand. Try to not let CO2 become the limiting factor in your plant's growth. If you are low on CO2, dim/raise the lights (or increase CO2 a bit if possible) keeping all other factors the same.


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## boink (Nov 27, 2006)

I would do several 50% water changes throughout the week, vacuuming as much of the hair algae as possible. After the week is up, do a blackout. Turn off lights, co2 and fert dosing.


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

A diffuser is a very inefficient way to get CO2 into the water column. Couple that with poor circulation (you didn't indicate that you have any power heads for that purpose) and combine it with a lot of light and you get algae. Forget counting watts: a T5 HO bulb is bright... period. I have a GLO fixture also (108watts T5HO) over a 55g. The fixture is over a foot above the tank and is only on for 8 hours. I run a huge reactor with a bubble count that is uncountable and 3 Hydor Nano power heads. Granted I loose some CO2 because I run a sump and siphon overflow but I think you get the idea.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

As much algae as there is in that tank, it's probably consuming the nutrients faster than the plants!

Though correcting the issue that led to this situation is very important, at this point I would also do something more drastic to knock the algae down to a manageable level - Excel, H2O2, or blackout.

It's a shame no hair algae eaters would survive in that tank with the puffers and loaches.

Long-term, I think you'll need to reduce your lighting intensity, not just the duration.


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## breakaway (Jan 21, 2010)

Lycosa said:


> I haven't seen a full 'scape' shot of your tank, but it looks like your heavily planted.


It is a very heavily planted tank:












MarkMc said:


> A diffuser is a very inefficient way to get CO2 into the water column. Couple that with poor circulation (you didn't indicate that you have any power heads for that purpose)


I have a single Aqua One 400L/H (100GPH) power head on the far end of the tank to circulate the water. The circulation isn't exactly chaotic, but there is a good amount of flow.



DarkCobra said:


> Though correcting the issue that led to this situation is very important, at this point I would also do something more drastic to knock the algae down to a manageable level - Excel, H2O2, or blackout.


This is what I was thinking as well. I think I'm way past the point of blackouts helping though - especially since I once removed badly algae'd plants from the tank, placed them in a bucket with a lid (to provide total darkness) for about 4 days, and upon inspection on the 4th day, the algae was healthy as ever.

I'm going to read up some more on H2O2 and give that a try. I will definitely move all my fish out before hand, as I do not want to harm them in any way.



DarkCobra said:


> It's a shame no hair algae eaters would survive in that tank with the puffers and loaches.


Yes this is also a problem I'm having to contend with, making the situation that much harder to deal with  Also in NZ, freshwater shrimp are not on the import list so there's no chance of getting any.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Just to rule it out, are you using any kind of pH adjustment/buffer chemical (other than CO2)?


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## breakaway (Jan 21, 2010)

Not at all, the only 'dosing' done to the tank is NPK and Flourish Comprehensive, and CO²


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## Lycosa (Oct 16, 2006)

> I have a single Aqua One 400L/H (100GPH) power head on the far end of the tank to circulate the water. The circulation isn't exactly chaotic, but there is a good amount of flow.


Considering how much growth you have in the tank, I would run one of those wavemakers that run on a powerhead by Hydor or make a DIY spraybar to move more water through more places.. Just my opinion, but with that much growth it seems logical that you have flow problems.




> I'm going to read up some more on H2O2 and give that a try. I will definitely move all my fish out before hand, as I do not want to harm them in any way.


H202 works, but it is a band-aid unfortunately. When that algae dies, it'll release the nutrients back into your water and grow more algae. I've used it to spot kill algae, mostly on a Java fern that is an slow growing algae magnet, but be careful as from everything I've read about it, it'll destroy any thin-leaved plants as well and that (looks like) Wisteria might take a hit from it.


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## breakaway (Jan 21, 2010)

The reason I want to do H2O2 is because it'll kill all the algae, I'll drain out 75% of the water and replace it with new water, and that way it'll be kind of like starting anew, and I won't have to re-cycle the tank.


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## leaf (Jun 27, 2009)

It's gonna take alot of blackouts + trimming + manual removal but I don't see any reason to start over unless you h8 the scape.


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## Mr. Fisher (Mar 24, 2009)

You need more current in your tank. A Fluval 205 is too small for a 50+ gallon tank.

Regarding diffusers, I run my CO2 via ADA diffuser in my 55 Long, and I do not have any algae problems. George Lo doesn't have a problem with his larger showtanks at AFA using this method.

In short, I do not think diffusers are the reason for this hair algae.

Chances are, the light is just too intense and there isn't enough CO2.

Lower the light to 6 hours per day, increase flow and CO2. Keep up with the macros and micros. Also make sure to stay in top of the water changes.

Too much light, too little CO2.

Decrease light (no more than 6 hours per day) and increase CO2. Increase flow with more filtration.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

I had the same problem, and now its not as big of a problem. I lowered the lights to 5 hours a day. Also increased co2 and did water changes every 3rd day.


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## Casty (Sep 28, 2006)

It's definitely too much light. I bet you could go all the way down to just one of those twin 39x2watt fixtures for a total of 78 watts of T5HO lighting with Co2 and dosing and be much better off. The wpg rule doesn't work for T5s, it was only meant for T12s... and it DEFINITELY does not work for T5HO! 

Also, like everyone said increasing circulation will help plenty as well.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

boink said:


> I would do several 50% water changes throughout the week, vacuuming as much of the hair algae as possible. After the week is up, do a blackout. Turn off lights, co2 and fert dosing.


+1

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Casty said:


> It's definitely too much light. I bet you could go all the way down to just one of those twin 39x2watt fixtures for a total of 78 watts of T5HO lighting with Co2 and dosing and be much better off. The wpg rule doesn't work for T5s, it was only meant for T12s... and it DEFINITELY does not work for T5HO!
> 
> Also, like everyone said increasing circulation will help plenty as well.


+2

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Saintly (May 12, 2010)

I had the exact issue in my tank, and I could not get rid of it no matter how hard I tried, more CO2 less CO2, more Ferts, less ferts, more Light, less Light.

Some of these combinations did work to reduce the amount and growth, but it never completely removed it.

So I let the tank grow wild for 4 weeks and then……..did a complete re scape.

I then washed the plants (as best I could, and choose the parts of the plants that had no algae or very little). Then put it back together, for me it was time for a re scape so no big deal. The results are….I have zero Hair Algae problems now, I can’t find one outbreak or hair. 

Then with careful monitoring and CO2/Light/Ferts, it’s now working well. Although I did get a bit adventurous with my DIY fert dosing system and had some green water but my new UV lamp has brought that back under control and now im dosing in balance.

I believe this is really the only true way to 100% remove it from your tank when it gets a hold.


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

Will those fixtures allow you to just use one bulb? If so, you might think about just using one single 39w. That algae loves light with a passion.
IME, H2O2 or excel do nothing to harm it, but dropping light levels to the bare minimum will kill it off slowly, along with manual removal and blackouts.

Good luck!


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## Green024 (Sep 19, 2009)

Mr. Fisher said:


> You need more current in your tank. A Fluval 205 is too small for a 50+ gallon tank.
> 
> Regarding diffusers, I run my CO2 via ADA diffuser in my 55 Long, and I do not have any algae problems. George Lo doesn't have a problem with his larger showtanks at AFA using this method.
> 
> ...


+1 for this =]

This method worked for me, except I was VERY impatient with the sight of algae in my tanks so I stopped dosing fertz for a good week, and instead added 1 gram per gallon of H2o2, and excel. The first day I added 2 grams per gallon of the H2o2 I believe. Did this to 3 different tanks, all are now free of Staghorn, Hair and BBa algae. Again, i probably should have waited it out and figured out what was causing this in the first place.
I also did not have too much concern about my guppies and neons, but they all made it with no signs of being stressed.


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## breakaway (Jan 21, 2010)

I've just torn apart the whole tank recently, and ran chlorinated water through the whole loop (i.e. tap water w/o dechlorinator). Moved my puffers to a smaller tank for the time being. I've got about 20 guppies to power cycle the aquarium now. After that's all sorted out, I'll install my internal diffuser, and only use 1 light until everything is growing well. Then I'll add the second light.

I'm thinking of getting this diffuser http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en and running it in conjunction with a new power head for better diffusion than my current ceramic setup. Any tips/advice on this?

Also, any tips on a fertilization regime for a newly set-up tank? Surely you need to add less ferts than a set up sysetm?


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## Canuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Can't comment on the diffuser.

As far as ferts with an inert substrate, I'd probably start full EI, right off the bat. As you've discovered problems are alot easier to avoid then too fix.

I have a question pertaining to your original post. When you say you dosed Flourish products as per the directions, how much nitrogen and phosphate did you dose?


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## breakaway (Jan 21, 2010)

Canuck said:


> I have a question pertaining to your original post. When you say you dosed Flourish products as per the directions, how much nitrogen and phosphate did you dose?


Howmuch ever it said on the bottle: 

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishNitrogen.html
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishPhosphorus.html

So that would be about 5mL phosphorous twice a week (tuesday and thursday) and about 4mL phosporhous, with a 50% water change on Sunday

--

Anyway, here is what I ended up doing:

I tore the tank down, ran chlorinated water (i.e. tapwater) through the whole system, and then let it sit for about a week without lights, then added ~20 guppies to cycle it, (60Gal) and then finally re-planted it. When I was cycling it, I only had a 1hr photoperiod so I could feed the fish.

No sign of hair algae yet.

Things I did differently:
- No ferts yet (it's only been running for a week and a half)
- Pressurised CO² with this diffuser

I'm really worried about starting to dose ferts now. So much so, that I haven't done it as yet.

I normally use Seachem Flourish at the recommended dosage on monday and wednesday, and use NPK at recommended dosage on tuesday and thursday, with a 50% water change on Sunday.


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## Canuck (Apr 30, 2009)

From Seachem on Flourish Nitrogen:



> EXPERT: The beginner dose raises nitrogen by the same degree that 1 mg/L nitrate would. This dose is sufficient to provide approximately 4 g of growth (dry) or about 20 g (hydrated) over a 1 month period (assuming all other necessary nutrients are provided).


From Seachem on Flourish Phosphorus



> EXPERT: The beginner dose raises phosphorus by 0.05 mg/L (0.15 mg/L phosphate). The ideal phosphate level will vary, but generally ranges from 0.15–1.0 mg/L.


Directions on Seachem are intended for fish tanks with plants. If you followed the basic instructions on the Seachem products, it won't get you close to target levels of nutrients for a heavily planted tank with the amount of light you have. As a point of comparison, I have a 50 gallon tank with 72 watts of compact fluorescent lights, slow growing plants. This is dosed at 10 mg/l of nitrates and 1 mg/l of phosphates weekly, with bi weekly water changes, I don't have any algae to speak of.


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