# Ordered Killifish eggs, let the game begin!



## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

About 3 weeks ago (from yesterday December 31, 2015) I ordered a batch of "Killifish/ Mixed/ 6 Type/100 eggs + Atermia 20000" off a seller called "Killipun" on aquabid from Thailand. Why did I mention all of that? Well, I know this seller is one of the larger cheap sellers on AquaBid. I saw a lot of autions for the same thing under the same seller. So, this will either end up being a waste or being a success. Only time will tell, I guess. 

Our email conversations of gone like so: 
Killipun: Here's how much you owe. Please pay it and I'll ship the eggs (12/11/15 9:24 am) 
Me: Okay, money sent. (12/11/15 9:51 am)
Me: Could you tell me when they eggs are shipped please? (12/12/15 1:51 pm) 
Me: Have they shipped yet? (12/14/15 9:25pm) 
Killipun: Hi, I've shipped your order on December 15, 2015. It generally takes 21 to 28 days to arrive depending on if customs holds it for inspection. (12/14/15 10:22 pm) 
Me: Thank you, I will inform you when I receive them. (12/14/15 10:37 pm) 

So, there you have it. My experiences so far. I've done all of the research needed and I'll admit that this was an impulse buy for sure. I'm hoping that they will arrive okay (it's taking longer than I had hoped and the weather here has taken a turn for the worst). If I get even two of the eggs living past their one month mark I'll be happy. 

If anyone bothers to reply then I'll probably answer back. If no one does then I'll just update this when the 28 days have gone by or when the eggs arrive, which ever comes first. I'm expecting delays thanks to the holidays, but we'll see. 

Since I bought the eggs I have: 
Gotten 6 different containers for the eggs in hope that they will all be separate from each other according to species. According to my research, I have Nothobranchius Rachovii (top left) Nothobranchius Eggersi (red, middle left) Nothobranchius Foerschi (bottom right) Nothobranchius fuscotaeniatus ((?) Middle right). 










I'd look the rest up, but I'm afraid I'm out of time for the moment. ​The 28 day mark will be here on the 12th of January, 2016.


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm an AKA member and longtime killifish keeper. Welcome to the killifish hobby and let me know either here or via PM if you need any help. 

Get some vinegar eels and microworm cultures going, and make sure you have the bbs hatching routine down. 

The eggs from Killipun are going to arrive in one bag, and the species will all be mixed together. If they make the trip OK you will at least have some eggs to try out. 

I have two recommendations for you;

Try and find an inexpensive pair of killifish to work with. The eggs and fry can be a challenge, especially with the X factor of shipping thrown in. Kept in a small species tank, adult killies are actually very hardy (most species) and easy to spawn. You will then get multiple batches of fresh eggs to practice with. Having a few actual fish and multiple tries with the eggs will give you a much better chance of "getting over the beginner hump" with Killi keeping

Also, join the AKA if you can. You will get access to inexpensive fish and eggs that are only offered to members and a ton of info that will help you.....

Enjoy, and reach out any time!
Scott


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## cpwebsite (Dec 12, 2012)

Killifish are some beautiful fish and they are fun to raise. Good luck, I look forward to following your experiences.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Thank you, cpwebsite. They haven't arrived yet. I'm still anxiously waiting :laugh2:


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

i have ordered the same auction from killipun before. i got about thirty to hatch. as SDK said, they arrived in one mixed bag. 

a few of the fry died, but most of the them survived. i ended up with six males. two different male species, bottom left in the picture and middle left. 

all in all, i was quite happy with it and will likely buy from him again at some point.


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

interested to see how this turns out.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Now I am thinking of doing that. How are they being shipped? What was the cost?


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Hilde said:


> Now I am thinking of doing that. How are they being shipped? What was the cost?


I actually asked Killipun about the shipping and this is what I got: 

_Hi,

for your question about all eggs will put in plastic box in that contain peat and soil for protect egg and cover plastic box by aluminium foil. For hatch rate each buyer have different experience some have high hatch rate and some have low rate to hatch that have factor is experience, time , heat, temperature or other but we have many repeat custome for this eggs  and for species of eggs you will get same with photo you bid thanks.

_The eggs themselves cost $2.99 and the shipping was $18. He does offer replacement eggs if something happens to yours, but you would have to pay shipping again. If I end up not getting the eggs or not having any hatch (due to weather) then I'll either try for eggs from someone here in the U.S. or I'll go with the suggested adult killies.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

TurtleShark said:


> The eggs themselves cost $2.99 and the shipping was $18. If I end up not getting the eggs or not having any hatch (due to weather) then I'll either try for eggs from someone here in the U.S. or I'll go with the suggested adult killies.


Have you google to see if there are any aquarium clubs near you? Through a club is where I have gotten some killifish.


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## spdskr (Nov 14, 2005)

I understand your excitement in awaiting the egg shipment. I have raised annual killies for over 20 years and still find it amazing when I get fry from a bag of dirt that I either collected from my tanks or received from another killie breeder.

Some general thoughts to echo what was posted by SDK:


If you have never raised egg-layer fry before, you could be in for a steep learning curve. Get a practice pair of adult non-annual killies before you hatch the Nothobranchius eggs.

Overseas shipments can be unreliable in terms of arrival dates and hatch rates. Factor in the season, winter, and it is doubtful that you will hatch a multitude of fry.

Learn how to culture live food in advance of hatching the eggs. Nothobrachius fry will generally only eat live foods and require copious amounts as they grow.

Join the AKA, or at least a local aquarium club. The knowledge you gain from an experienced and preferably local breeder is priceless.

Don't give up. If at first you hatch no eggs, re-dry the peat. If it still doesn't produce fry, network with the locals for other killie species.

Lastly, I'm happy to provide you with eggs that will most likely hatch numerous fry. But I only ship when I know temperatures will be above freezing for both your location and mine.

Best of Luck!


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## Smitty83 (Sep 19, 2008)

Can't wait for updates!!! Thought about doing the same thing!

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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

Following for updates, too


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Okay! Eggs are here! I have lots of pictures!!! 









































































Bump: My main concern is the yellowish-tint to the eggs... Are they still alive? 

The hatch date is 1/14/16. Not sure if this'll post it's own post or if it'll just update my old one but I wanted to try to keep the fish species on a different post. We'll see...


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## CharleeFoxtrot (Jan 29, 2004)

Following along, I've always wanted to hatch out some killies!


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## spdskr (Nov 14, 2005)

TurtleShark said:


> Okay! Eggs are here! I have lots of pictures!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Bump: My main concern is the yellowish-tint to the eggs... Are they still alive?


Amber eggs are viable. Ready to hatch eggs will look back at you with well-defined eyes. Dead eggs will turn cloudy and mold, or dissolve altogether.

Congrats!


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

spdskr said:


> Amber eggs are viable. Ready to hatch eggs will look back at you with well-defined eyes. Dead eggs will turn cloudy and mold, or dissolve altogether.
> 
> Congrats!


Okay, thank you!


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## tims880 (Jun 29, 2006)

This is to cool following for sure....


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Day II 

No pupils yet, that I can see. I think I can see the iris but there's no black in them yet. So I'm going to wait a few more days. 

My worm cultures have started to take off but man do they smell if I take the lid off :|. I think I'm going to have to start taking them outside to "air them out". I have holes in the lid, covered with coffee filters. I was not thinking last night. I took the lid off from one box and I thought "are the air holes not working?" So I checked them and sure enough, all of the holes were covered with this masking tape like stuff! Did someone else in the house put tape over the holes? So I took one of my pipettes and started poking the holes open again.

Then I realized that the "masking tape" was the coffee filters that I put on to keep the "mites" out. Opps.... 

But I have a bunch of vinegar eels swarming around in their mixture, and I saw two or three walter worms emerging in their mixture as well. So that should be good to go. 

My infusoria cultures are still going strong, as well.


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

Good luck and keep an "eye" on those eggs lol...

If its microworms that are stinking, I've got a five spot you are using oatmeal. Switching to potato flakes will give you cultures that last longer and have much less smell. It also gives you a nice, smooth surface for the "two paper towel method" of harvesting, which is light years ahead of swiping worms off of the sides....


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

Potato flakes? Make these yourself or buy online?

Thanks!


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Hmm.... I'll have to try that when I start new cultures. No point in doing it now and risking not having any food for the fry later... 

Here's some information that I have gathered on the killies for anyone who doesn't know much about them (just because I have nothing better to do...) 

Seems like they like higher pH levels (at least the Nothobranchius do). 7-8.2 was the most common range that I found. 

Temperatures are on the low side: 68 to 74 degrees F (20-24 celcius). 

I've heard that one pair needs 2.5 gallons of water and that fry are best when raised with about 5 gallons of water. I'll probably have mine in 10 gallons because I only have one 10 and that's for my betta. 

They should be fed on live foods, although in some cases introducing dried food to the fry can lead to them accepting it as adults. This should not, however, be the staple food for your fry as they tend not to do as well on it. 

Java moss is considered a must-have for the fry. I don't have any myself; I wish I did but I don't. I might end up just making up a bunch of "spawning mops" out of yarn. No one near me sells java moss... 

They should be kept on a bare bottom if you want to breed them. Darker bottom tanks can make it more difficult to breed them and may lead to the fish spawning on the floor of the tank. To breed them, fill a small dish or cup with peat moss (it's recommended that it be boiled first to sterilize it) and sink it in the tank. After about 48 hours take it out and look though it for the eggs. I watched a video once where the guy used a microfiber cloth to roll the peat and the eggs out, both drying the moss and revealing the eggs.

The eggs are ready to be hatched when they are "eyed up". This is when you can see the eye of the fish inside of the eggs. I believe you are meant to see the color of the iris as well as the black of the pupil. 

Adults do jump and lids are required. 

They tend not to like water movement too much so large filters are not a good idea. 

Water quality is important, of course, but they aren't really too much more sensitive than your normal guppies and tetras. 

They can be kept in a community tank with one male per one or two females and only with fish around their size. They are small fish, after all. 

The incubation period for the eggs is around 3 months or more, depending on the type of fish. The best advice I can give is to check on the eggs every day or every other day to make sure you don't miss the hatching time. Some, like the rachovii (I think) can go 2-3 years passed being "eyed-up". 

Question: 
Is there any negative side effects to wetting the eggs too early?


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

TropicalAquarist said:


> Potato flakes? Make these yourself or buy online?
> 
> Thanks!


Instant mashed potato flakes that you buy at the supermarket. Just grab the cheapest store brand and make sure they are plain (unless microworms au gratin are your thing lol)


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I've decided to try wetting the eggs and see what happens. Good idea or no? And when I do, how long do I leave the peat in the water?


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

TurtleShark said:


> I've decided to try wetting the eggs and see what happens. Good idea or no? And when I do, how long do I leave the peat in the water?


If you can see all of the eggs and there are no black pupils visible, try to be patient. Read this to keep you busy. 

http://www.mkka.net/articles/Introduction_to_Killifish.pdf


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

SDK said:


> If you can see all of the eggs and there are no black pupils visible, try to be patient. Read this to keep you busy.
> 
> http://www.mkka.net/articles/Introduction_to_Killifish.pdf


Aww, but I've already read that one :wink2:. Okay, I'll wait a few more days... 

Thanks!


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

Lol. I know it's hard, but you will be happier with a larger initial hatch out. You still have to do almost the same amount of work for two or twenty fry, and your odds will be better of getting some up the the magic 1/2" mark.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Why did you decide to raise annual killifish?


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Hilde said:


> Why did you decide to raise annual killifish?


I wanted a challenge and I like how they look. :grin2:


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## sakanajanai (Jan 5, 2016)

I've always loved killies, and was just dreaming about hatching some myself! I can't wait to see your progress. 

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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Hopefully I won't disappoint us all... :wink2: I killed my last batch of betta fry though ick... I'd probably kill these ones with velvet now. Hopefully not.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Ugh!!! Those worm cultures SMELL. They smell like someone threw up all over the floor. The vinegar eels have quickly become my favorite (and I can't even stand the smell of vinegar!) 

Man, if I wasn't going to need the cultures for the killies I'd start them over. 

Anyway, it looks like my banana worm culture needs an update. It's molding... Should I try restarting that one with the potato flakes? Is the recipe for that pretty much the same? Add a little water till not quite watery but still holds it's shape? 

The vinegar eels are doing great. Every pipette of them that I take out has worms in it, not hundreds but at least 10. 

Question: 
Anyone know why clumps form on the bottom of the vinegar worm cultures?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

You can grow grindal worms in dirt or coconut fiber. They're about twice the size of vinegar and banana worms.

No smells.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

mistergreen said:


> You can grow grindal worms in dirt or coconut fiber. They're about twice the size of vinegar and banana worms.
> 
> No smells.


If they appear in mid air, I'll go for it. 

Joking aside, still... I don't want to go bigger; I need small for the babies. Maybe if the babies live to be adults I'll do grindals. I've heard that they are very good for killis :grin2:


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## gsvanwinkle (Jan 14, 2016)

Patience! I bought N. Rachovii Beira eggs from this seller. The eggs were in great shape, but the seller listed a hatch date way too soon. I checked the AKA's web site (The Genus Nothobranchius | American Killifish Association) to see when I should wet them. It was about 2 months after the seller recommended. I waited and was rewarded with a ton of fry. Within a day, they were swimming free, exploring the hatching tray, and swarming the vinegar eels I dropped in.

It's going to be harder for you to calculate the best hatching date because you have 6 species of eggs in one container. The best thing to do is use a powerful magnifying glass and watch for eyes to show in the eggs. Check every few weeks. Once you see those eyes, it's time to hatch.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

TurtleShark said:


> ....fry are best when raised with about 5 gallons of water. I'll probably have mine in 10 gallons because I only have one 10 and that's for my betta. [/ QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Fry have one job, eating!
> ...


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

Yes, the potato flakes should be the same consistency. After switching, I won't have oatmeal cultures in the house. Vomit is the perfect description of the smell. 

If you do start getting into killifish more seriously, I would second mistergreens suggestion of getting grindal worms going as well. They are very easy, smell free and much more practical to culture than white worms. 

Once the fry start getting too large for microworms, they can transition right to grindal worms, and they get large enough that adults love them as well. I have 4" + size Blue Gularis males that will still take grindals, although they are more a treat for that size fish.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I'd think that because of the smaller dimensions of the 5 gallon that would be easier for the fry to find their food. That way you wouldn't have to feed as much and end up with as much going to waste. After all, they probably won't be able to find every eel/worm/shrimp that I give them.


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

5 and even 2.5 gallon tanks and comparable plastic tubs are great for killifish fry. I would recommend going even lower than half filled. Start out with just an inch or two of water and slowly top it off with the exact same batch of water over the course of two weeks. Newly hatched Notho fry can be sensitive to water changes, so slowly topping off and keeping everything very consistent are keys to success.


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

I also set up for Notho fry ahead of time. Get an inch or two of water into a container now with a bit of leaf litter and some Java Moss and let it sit in a bright area. They fry will have a better survival rate if there are some microorganisms in there with them to eat during the first critical 24 to 48 hours.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm going to get the containers ready now. 

As an update on the eggs: 
I took a close look at 10 of the eggs. 
3 of them had the beginnings of eyes. 
2 of them had eyes for sure (one of which I'm pretty sure has pupils already). 
The rest weren't quite there yet. 

I've decided to give them until Friday to try again. I should get a few hatch, I think. 

Based on my sample of ten: 
50% should not be ready yet. 
20% should be almost ready. 
30% should be right on the line. 

So, we can only hope (imagine if I got 20 hatch :wink2:, but I know that's not going to happen.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Okay! I put the eggs in water on Thursday. No hatches yet.

BUT: 
I can see eyes on most of them! 

So: 
I'm going to dry them out again. Should I wait one more week or two more weeks?


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

I'd give it 2 weeks . An extra week will probably not affect the resting eggs . Just out of curiosity , did the seller gave you any approximate dates as to when ,and how long the peat was in the spawning tank(s)? If you have that date , and the species that are supposed to be in the media , some research will give you an approximate time until hatching.

EDIT: I went back and looked at post 13 . His hatch times are really optimistic . GSVANWINKLE has it right … check the AKA website , and wait .Been a long time since I kept Nothos , but IIRC the dry time for guentheri is around 3 months , rachovi around 5 , no experience with the others . Maybe drying them out and rewetting once a month would be a good idea . Might also enable you to keep species relatively separate , if you remove the fry from each hatch into their own container . Wouldn't be foolproof , but it's worth a shot .


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Well, I have clear and obvious eyes on at least 5 of the eggs. No mistaking that. 

So, I've decided to try 1/2 of them in water. I put them in about 2 inches of water (or less). I lined the container with coffee filter to make it easier to dry should I have to. 

We'll see what we get out of this... If not, I guess I'll force myself to wait a few more weeks. 

Also: Several of the eggs are turning white and fungus-ing.... Any ideas?


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## daworldisblack (Jan 12, 2012)

I've heard about putting a bit of methylene blue in the water when hatching the eggs.. Also those that are fungused, u need to remove them ASAP 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

daworldisblack said:


> I've heard about putting a bit of methylene blue in the water when hatching the eggs.. Also those that are fungused, u need to remove them ASAP
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yup, those that turn white are taken out as soon as I can see them.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

The coffee filter is a great idea . I used to put a small amount of salt in the hatchlings water , maybe 1/2 teaspoon/gallon instead of the methylene blue . If your bad eggs seem to be sending out fungus threads , maybe rinsing the peat in some water containing a bit of methylene blue before re drying would be a good idea.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I may try to contact the seller to find out when the eggs were laid. Here are their incubation times: 

N. eggersi: 10-14 weeks 
N. guentheri: 12-16 weeks
N. foerschi: 12-16 weeks
N. rachovii "black": 20-48 weeks
N. rachovii: 20-28 weeks
N. fuscotaeniatus (?): 10-12 weeks

The eggs may have been laid around the time that I bought them, which was the beginning of December. 

So, it (possibly) has been 10 weeks so far, which would explain the few eyed up eggs. 

I'll give these ones a few more days then I'll dry and wait until the 19th.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

I've always found the hardest part of annuals , both African and South American , is the waiting . Especially Peat divers , I can never find eggs , so it becomes an article of faith that there's some in the peat.


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## spdskr (Nov 14, 2005)

someoldguy said:


> I've always found the hardest part of annuals , both African and South American , is the waiting . Especially Peat divers , I can never find eggs , so it becomes an article of faith that there's some in the peat.


Exactly what makes it so exciting when you end up with fish. :wink2:


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## pauliewoz (Sep 22, 2015)

Just curious how the eggs are doing. 

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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

pauliewoz said:


> Just curious how the eggs are doing.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Nothing yet :frown2:. I put them in water last night and I haven't found anything yet... I'm going to dump everything out of the coffee filter, I think. It's kind of hard to see into... 

If it doesn't work this time then I'm going to be stuck waiting a few more weeks... 

I read some where that adding more peat could help. Ideas on that?

From what I have found: 
I should have two species ready to hatch. Perhaps I never received those two eggs, or maybe I'm not doing something right. I haven't gotten any babies yet. 

I'll give them until tomorrow night. If there is still nothing then I'll wait until April or so to try again. 

Again: 
Adding more peat can't hurt, right? 

What have I learned? This is no simple process. It's taking a lot of time and patients. The rest of my family has written them off as a scam, but I know the fry are still alive. I see their little eyes. Maybe I can get my hands on a microscope just to prove that they are living... 

Maybe more fresh water is the key? 
Maybe the peat extract is the key? 
Maybe cooler or warmer water is the key? 
Maybe they need a storm to move through to hatch? 
Maybe the water needs to be moving slightly? 
Maybe they are starving to death before I find them? 
Maybe they just don't like me? 

Whatever the case is, I'm not giving up. 

I'm going to try my hand at breeding emerald dwarf danios (rasbora)! Stay tuned for a link on my attempts at that (hopefully it'll go better than my killifish raising has...)


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Adding a bit more peat can't hurt . Might not help , but won't hurt. Two things I've tried , but never with annual eggs . 1. put a SMALL amount of micro worms in the hatching dish along with the eggs .The theory is that the worms will produce C02 that will trigger the hatch . 2. Put the eggs into a pill vial , fill the vial to the top , add the eggs , cap it and drop the vial into the deepest tank you have . Can't be any air in the vial . The theory is that the increase in pressure on the eggs will trigger a hatch . 
Just try these with a few eggs as both methods are not foolproof . Your big problem is that you have eggs from a bunch of species , with varying incubation times , and when you look at the eggs , you don't know what fish's eggs your looking at . Keep trying , wetting your eggs monthly . I wouldn't give up until maybe July as you might have rachovii which have a longer hatch time than the others .


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## spdskr (Nov 14, 2005)

TurtleShark said:


> Again:
> Adding more peat can't hurt, right?
> 
> What have I learned? This is no simple process. It's taking a lot of time and patients. The rest of my family has written them off as a scam, but I know the fry are still alive. I see their little eyes. Maybe I can get my hands on a microscope just to prove that they are living...
> ...


I would add the eggs to 0.5 cups of slightly damp peat and continue the incubation process for another month, especially if you see eyes in the eggs. Typically eggs are shipped in very small amounts of media to save on postage. In my experience, incubating in larger volumes of peat or coco fiber produces better results.

Not sure water quality or atmospheric conditions affect hatching in annual eggs. When they are ready to hatch, they hatch if flooded with water, usually within 24 hours.

Glad to see you are not giving up.

PM me if you want some annual killifish eggs from the USA that should hatch upon arrival. :wink2:


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I have one baby killie now. :laugh2:

Just one. I put it in a little container with some java moss for now.


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

YAY!!!
Very exciting.
Congratulations!!!!


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Well , ya got one …… bet there'll be more on the next wetting . Give the fry live BBS , micro worms , maybe first bites or cyclopeeze and watch how fast it grows . Don't let the water foul up in the fry container , though .


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

It's still alive! 

I have it in about 1.5 gallons right now. The bottom has a lot of strange buildup going on. 

Yesterday I thought I lost the killie. I had moved some stuff and fed it my usual surplus of vinegar eels and worms. I couldn't find the fish. Anywhere. So of grabbed the brightest light in the house and started searching. Eventually I found the little thing, but I had also noticed something. 

The build up patches and clumps were MOVING!!! I just looked like unbeaten food. But, how can dead food move? And then I noticed the worms. The little eels and worms were clinging to the buildup. So strange... 

Tomorrow my plan is to do a 50% water change in the a.m. and a full water change in the p.m. to clean up the mess. I'm also going to being the fish to about 2 or 2.5 gallons.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

just dump a catfish in there


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Careful with large water changes, baby fish don't handle parameter shifts too well. Whatever's living on the bottom is probably just a colony of scavengers, they won't eat your fry. 
Definitely don't add a catfish.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Probably a good thing to get that scuzz off the bottom of the tank , don't want to wake up one morning and find it's morphed into The Monster That Devoured Cleveland …As said above , be careful with water changes . You also might want to put a small snail in the fry tank to bring order to the uneaten food/accumulated crud situation . A bit of java moss or maybe one or 2 pieces of frog bit or salvinia if you have it probably isn't a bad idea either .


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA8sUkC-ReA

You may enjoy this video, the guy is a pro and shows a few techniques.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Well... 
Tested the killifish's tank. 
Ammonia is well above 0. 
Dead snail in the tank. 
No baby killie to be found. 

I filled the tank up with fresh water. I didn't want to change any just in case I sucked out the killie. 

I'm not expecting to find it. 

I counted the remaining eggs as well. 
10 eggs at most. 

Ten. 

Out of "a hundred". 

:|

None of them are eyed up. 

They all should have hatched by now, according to their average hatching times.... I'm going to keep trying, but I think I'm out of luck now... 

:crying:


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Not sure what I'm going to do now. I guess I'll start small daily water changes on the killie's old tub. I guess I could try to get a good culture of infusoria going in it for now. I would clean the whole thing but you wouldn't believe the critters that I've found in there. I'll try my few eggs again around the 20th or something like that.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

The fry's water probably fouled up a bit resulting in its' demise . When you looked at your eggs , any sign of development at all , (I'm assuming you looked with a magnifier or low power microscope) ? If the eggs are translucent , look for any patterning on the outer shell ,or a line going maybe 1/3 around the shell ( start of a backbone ) . I've got the feeling that the eggs are stuck in diapause . Best I can say is re-dry and leave them for a while , maybe until June , to give them a chance to get going . Might want to take SPDSKR up on his offer , too .I've never had much luck with getting stuff from the Far East via Aquabid . Europe was OK ,though .


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm so sorry to hear that

Although I'm glad you tried it as I was thinking about it, but now I'm glad I didn't! Maybe try a non annual, but still easy to breed killie if this doesn't work?


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I think I've found a source for some Nematolebias papilliferus eggs. 

Not the Nothos like what I've been trying to hatch, but from what I've found they are pretty easy to raise. 

I'll update this as we go, I won't give up yet :grin2:


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

I can't help but think, given the diverse collection of hatching times these various annual's egg require, if this was not a great first attempt from the get-go.

Not to be negative about your experiment, but, years back I talked to a Killi breeder about annuals, and his first question to me was, " Are you a patient person?" You have to be honest with yourself as some of these fish's eggs can take up to 4 months to become ready to hatch.

I'm not sure that all those soakings and dryings haven't seriously compromised the viability of the remaining eggs. I salute your effort, but also reservedly think that trying hatch out this group would have been challenging for someone experienced with breeding Killis.


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## spdskr (Nov 14, 2005)

GrampsGrunge said:


> some of these fish can take up to 4 months to become ready to hatch..


or much longer for several species I can think of.....

Let's hope the OP has better success during his next attempt.

It is great that he has shared these experiences here. Helps those contemplating raising annual killies for the first time understand that there can be a steep learning curve. Reminds us more experienced breeders what is was like the first time we got a bag of dirt in the mail: great expectations with less that great results. :wink2:


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

spdskr said:


> ...Let's hope the OP has better success during his next attempt...
> 
> :wink2:


Hear hear! It's why I'm watching his myself, some Killis in my future.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

From what I've seen these new eggs are coming from a much better source and from the US at that. :grin2: 

I did have high hopes, and when I ordered the eggs from aquabid I had expected them to all come separate, not in one container. It makes me wonder if the fry could have ended up being cross bred and if the parents were all housed in one tank. If that's the case then maybe it's better that I failed. 

I made this thread to help others like me along their journey with the fish and I must say that it's become quite the experience. 

I already have all of the food and the tanks for killifish so I'm going to keep trying. It's a good lesson in taking things slow, for sure.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I got the new eggs! 

Alrighty, so, for pictures.


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## Natasha (Nov 22, 2015)

Really excited to see how this goes! Hope this batch is better


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

And!!!! 

We have tiny newly hatched killies! 



Three that I saw so far. I thought they were dead at first... But they are alive! 

:grin2:

Thanks, spdskr, for giving me a chance to hatch your eggs. 0

I'm leaving for a few hours right now, unfortunately, so no more updates for a while. As soon as I get back I'll have pictures of these little guys.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

wow, those larvae are huge.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Nordic said:


> wow, those larvae are huge.


They seem to be a little bigger than my nothos were...


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

18 or 19 belly sliders... 

How long until they swim? 
Should they be swimming by now? 

What to do if they don't swim?

When should I move them? 

When should I feed them? 

My first fry was free swimming when I found it...


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## heatherbee (Apr 12, 2016)

I think you should join the killifish association! Looks like you can at least view & search the AKA forum. You might want to message the person that sent you this new batch to have your questions answered since they have been so helpful


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Are they bouncing around or just scooting along the bottom? Everytime I've had S.A. annuals , the hatched fry always were free swimming upon hatching . Looking at the pic of your fry , it looks like maybe it hatched a bit early . Give them 2 days or so to see if they ever come off the bottom .You might want to carefully suck them out into a separate container with a meat baster or eyedropper that has airline on the tip . If they're not off the bottom in a couple of days , they'll never be . Feed them a bit and see if that take the food . After a couple of days , I'd take out the peat and redry it for a month . 
Also, take @heatherbee's advice . The AKA's a good group , been in it for 40+ years .


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

One is sort of swimming. It's up near the top and will half-swim around when I poke it. I was told to give them 24 hours to start swimming. The rest are still on the bottom. 

They remind me of grass hoppers. Disturb them and they'll do their best to fly up into the water but eventually they fall back down. A few that I poked would spiral directly up towards the top of the container and then fall back down again.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Probably best to not poke them, let nature take it's course, they'll be free swimming soon enough.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

TurtleShark said:


> One is sort of swimming. It's up near the top and will half-swim around when I poke it. I was told to give them 24 hours to start swimming. The rest are still on the bottom.
> 
> They remind me of grass hoppers. Disturb them and they'll do their best to fly up into the water but eventually they fall back down. A few that I poked would spiral directly up towards the top of the container and then fall back down again.


If one's off the bottom ,it's a good sign .Feed them a lightly and see what happens in the next few days . Never had papilliferus , maybe what you're encountering is normal for them .Time to stay patient.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Still a bunch of bellysliders.... I moved them to a different container and fed them some food.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Might want to redry the peat if you've got the fry out . Wait a month and rewet and see what happens . Fry taking the food?


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Not sure, I couldn't really tell. Sort of looked like it to me but I couldn't clearly tell. I've got a bunch of brine shrimp going so that will tell for sure.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Update; 
I have one swimming. That one is 2x as big as the rest. 

Three or four of the remaining (numbering somewhere around 9 fish) are eating from what I can tell for sure. I'm trying to make sure everyone gets food. May the strongest survive, I guess... 

The rest of the peat has been dried. I'll try that again in a few weeks.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Kinda figured the sliders wouldn't come off the bottom , this happens and it's probably nothing within your control to prevent . See what happens in a few weeks . When I kept S.A. annuals sliders happened to me once or twice , you just have to suck it up and move on … and try again.


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Do you think the whole batch of eggs will be like this?


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Not necessarily . Remember that annual fishes eggs don't develop at the same rate . Some will develop faster , and be ready to hatch if the rains come early , most will be ready to hatch when the usual rainy season arrives , and a few will have delayed development , and will be good to go if the rainy season is late , or if something occurs to make the pond dry out after it's initially saturated , and is then rewetted . Kind of a natural fallback to ensure the fishes next generation survival . My guess is that the sliders you got were just not quite at that point in development where they were ready to go .


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm down to 8 kilies now. 

I've been feeding the sliders in a cup. I catch each one once a day and put them in a cup of their tank's water with a bunch of brine shrimp. Finally, they are eating. 

The swimmer... Is big. Probably over 1/4 of an inch now and nearly 1/2 an inch. 

I'm starting to worry. 

Do I need to seperate them? Would the biggest try to eat the smaller ones? 

Five of the sliders are eating. I can see it in their red bellies. Two are not. It's worrying, but I'm not expecting those two to make it at all. 

The swimmer has a nice red belly as well. 

The daphnia are doing a little too well. Soon, though, my swimmer should be able to make a snack out of them. For now, though, I'm stuck siphoning a bunch of dead daphnia off the bottom. Can't be helping the whole ammonia and nitrite issue. 

Oh well... I'm doing daily or every other day water changing. Since the tank isn't heated I just let the new water sit out for a while to make sure they are the same temperature. 

I'm going to try the rest of the killies the second week of May, I think. We'll see how that goes. Hopefully I'll have better luck next time.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Isn't it amazing how fast they'll grow . Don't know if the big one will eat the sliders , never been in the position to find out .Usually my sliders died fast .You're doing what you can . Think I'd put off wetting the peat for maybe another week i.e. 3rd week in May . Make it an even month since they were redried to give egg development a bit more time. It's tough being patient , but it's what you've gotta be if you're dealing with annuals .


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## MikeP_123 (Aug 31, 2008)

This is a cool new aspect to fish keeping for me. Didn't realize all of this was going on somewhere out there! Cool stuff  and Good luck! Pictures


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

All right. Largest killie is starting to get a little color. Really red in the gills and belly. It won't take bbs anymore. It is also a lighter color. The eyes are a silver blue color. I'll get a few pictures up later. 

The other killies I have right now are four belly sliders. All are eating and growing. They still have their dark color and still eat brine shrimp. 

I've managed to neglect my microworm culture to the point where I think that I have killed them all... oops.... 

What size tank should I have them in when they grow some more? 5 gallon? 10 Gallon? 

I've put a lid on their container now. My swimmer is big enough to jump, I think. Wouldn't want to lose it now. 

A diet of pure daphnia can't be good for my swimmer. Any tips as to what other food I can feed? It's hard to get it to eat anything else, since it is in a tank with an all you can eat daphnia meal plan.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

I feed my killies a pretty varied diet . Blackworms , wingless fruit flies , mosquito larva around this time of the year , flakes , frozen , daphnia when I can get it . See if your fish will take flakes , a lot of annuals won't . Never could get them to eat anything containing beef heart , either paste or frozen either . Best I can say is experiment a bit . Live beats frozen beats flakes . Try a 10 to grow your fish out . Lids are always good for killies . Try to restart your micro worm culture . I've resurrected some pretty dry ones . 
Guess another week or 2 you'll try rewetting . Good luck!


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Good news and bad news. 

First off, let me start by saying that, when you're me, something bad always follows something good. It's to the point where I'm starting to dread bad things. 

For example, about a week or two ago something good happened. I remember that something good happened but I don't remember what. Then, that night, I had a bad feeling when I looked at my goldfish tank. My oldest goldfish, a black moor (who's still quite young. About 3 inches) was a little tilted at the top. So I thought I'd do a water change. 

Bad idea. 
Long story short; I was tired. I needed to clean the sand and the large end of my gravel vacuum couldn't get the job done. So I used the small end. One of my butterfly telescopes got close to the intake so I pushed it away with my hand. As I did that my moor, who is always at the top, always, came around in my blind spot and got pulled into the tube. He didn't survive. 

So, Monday, (three days ago), I walked into the room and found, to my surprise, that my Axolotl (Mexican Walking Fish for those of you unfamiliar) had laid eggs. Of course, I was beyond happy. 

Later that night as I fed the sliders (the swimmer is too big to take brine shrimp and has actually eaten all of the daphnia (even the adults) out of the tank) I decided that I couldn't wait any longer and I put all four sliders into a breeding net. The frame I was usuing for something else so I tied an airline hose to the net to keep it floating. 

I didn't feed them last night. I was too tired. 

A few minutes ago, I got the frame for the breeding net and set it up so I could put the net in it. I took the lid off the killie tank and found the swimmer in the net. Lo and behold all four sliders were MIA. 

So, I'm going to set the rest of the eggs up tonight and remove the hatchlings in the morning to the now fully set up breeding net. 

Let's try this again. 

Hmm... Looking back this is probably a bad idea... The last two times I've messed up has been at night... But, nothing good has happened. Oh, wait, I just noticed that the axolotl eggs are indeed fertile as they are starting to develop. Great... 

I'm going to need some luck, I think. Hopefully this works... I'm not too sure now... 

I'll get some pictures and an update tomorrow. 

What could go wrong??? :wink2: :|


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## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Nothing hatched... 

I checked and I only counted two eggs. 

Am I doing something wrong? Are they melting? Is that the word for that? I can't remember... 

Those two eggs are pretty developed. Maybe in a few weeks or so they'll be ready to hatch. 

I decided to try my first batch of eggs again. I said I counted 11 earlier, right? It's been so long that I'm not sure... 

I think maybe I'll try starting from adults next. 

This raises the question: 

"What came first? The chicken or the egg?" 

I'm going to say the chicken :wink2:

So, one young killifish left alive. 
Maybe I'll try to find it a mate when it gets big enough to tell the gender.


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