# LED Lighting Compendium



## samamorgan

This thread is here to try and keep new and seasoned aquarists informed about LED lighting. Please post any information, especially relating to PAR vs Distance you have for the various LED lighting fixtures and emitters out there. I will add more information to the top post as people throw it in here. Please provide source links wherever possible.

:angryfire *Please do not post here asking for suggestions about a certian light or recommendations for what light to choose.* :angryfire This is a place for people to come and find actual information about commercial LED fixtures. If you want some suggestions, make a new thread in the lighting forum. This serves the dual purpose of not cluttering this thread and your issue getting more exposure for a suggestion. Thanks!

*Deciphering This Thread*
_PAR Values_(Source) -_ Thanks Gnomecatcher for the suggestion!_
Values between 10-30 are considered low light.
Values between 30-80 are considered medium light.
Values between 80-120 are considered high light.
_Keep in mind that these values are what is currently accepted by the community as accurate, and aren't set in stone._

_Symbols_
 - Fixture designed for marine applications. This can be a problem in terms of high output or bad color for planted tanks.
:biggrin: - Fixture designed for freshwater planted applications. You shouldn't have to worry about output or color with these.​
*AquaIllumination Sol* 
_PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
400+ PAR @ 24"
300 PAR @ 30"
200 PAR @ 36"
*Notes:* Above information doesn't really do this fixture justice. Check out the source link, gives spectral output and PAR vs. distance with coverage. This fixture is meant for marine setups, so has very high PAR values. Dimming or raising the light high above the surface would be necessary for a planted setup.

*AquaticLife LED 0.5W Expandable Fixtures*
_PAR Data not available_
*Notes:* In response to an email i sent out, Dave Troop at AquaticLife responded saying their lights don't put out enough for plants, and are only meant for accent lighting or fish only setups_ (Source)_.

*Current TrueLumen Pro LED StripLight*
_PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
350 PAR @ surface
96 PAR @ 6"
57 PAR @ 12"
42 PAR @ 18"
31 PAR @ 24"
*Notes:* Numbers are for a single fixture. The source link shows numbers for multiple fixtures configured like a T5 setup as well, worth checking out.

*E.Shine Systems 3G LED Aquarium Lights*
_PAR Data_(Source)
*Notes:* The different configurations of this light series are much too extensive to list in this thread. Click on the source link for a full list of the 3G LED fixtures offered by E.Shine. Each page has very comprehensive PAR data, so just poke around a bit.

*E.Shine Systems Aqua Washer*
_PAR Data_(Source)
*Notes:* Complete graphical PAR data is provided in the source link for this fixture.

*E.Shine Systems 60W CREE Classic*
_PAR Data_(Source)
*Notes:* Complete graphical PAR data is provided in the source link for this fixture. Looks to be very high powered, more suited for marine use. Could use for plants if it was hung fairly high above the tank, or good for deep tanks.

*Ecoxotic Panorama Freshwater Module* :biggrin:
_PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
161 PAR @ surface (3" through air)
101 PAR @ 7"
60 PAR @ 12"
36 PAR @ 18"
*Notes:* One should easily cover the footprint of a 10 gallon tank with medium-high light.

*Ecoxotic Stunner Strip*
_PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
105 PAR @ surface (3" through air)
86 PAR @ 7"
71 PAR @ 12"
59 PAR @ 15"
49 PAR @ 18"
*Notes:* Please note that the above reading is for a 4 strip array. I don't know why the testers did this since it gives us no real basis on which to judge this fixture. Good catch Erica.

*Finnex FugeRay*
_PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
10" fixture: 49 PAR @ 6", 18 PAR @ 12", 9 PAR @ 18"
12" fixture: 62 PAR @ 6", 25 PAR @ 12", 13 PAR @ 18"
*Notes:* Amazingly low cost for an LED fixture that puts out medium light for nano tanks. Nice slim design, too. It's a good idea to check out the source link on this one, gives offset PAR values so coverage can be approximated. One of the easiest to read PAR charts i've seen. Also comes equipped with blue moonlights. Big thanks to Lowe for the data on these.

*Finnex Ray II*
_PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
16" fixture: 130 PAR @ 6", 49 PAR @ 12", 27 PAR @ 18"
18" fixture: 153 PAR @ 6", 72 PAR @ 12", 37 PAR @ 18"
24" fixture: 179 PAR @ 6", 87 PAR @ 12", 55 PAR @ 18"
*Notes:* Great value priced fixture for various sized tanks. It's a good idea to check out the source link on this one, gives offset PAR values so coverage can be approximated. One of the easiest to read PAR charts i've seen. Big thanks to Lowe for the data on these.

*Innovative Marine SKKYE Lights* 
_PAR Data(Source)_
Just look at the source link on this one, PAR data is very well explained.

*Kessil A150 LED Aquarium Light* 
_PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
2888 PAR @ 0"
2000 PAR @ surface (4" through air)
400-500 PAR @ 8"
80-90 PAR @ 15"
*Notes:* Very powerful lights, designed for reef applications. If you go through the thread in the source link, there is a lot more information pertaining to this light. An example I found interesting was the 20g long lit with a single one of these lights hung pretty high above the tank, and still growing corals (view here). Credit for PAR data goes to Frick.

*Kessil A150W Amazon Sun* :biggrin:
_PAR Data(Source 1, Source 2) PAR vs. Distance from source_
56 PAR @ 18"
42 PAR @ 21"
34 PAR @ 24"
*Notes:* Seem to be about perfect for getting medium light to most medium sized aquariums. Great coverage for such a small light. Credit for PAR data goes to propsi.

*Marineland Single Bright*
_PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
18-24" fixture: 8 PAR @ 12", 3 PAR @ 24"
24-36" fixture: 10 PAR @ 12", 4 PAR @ 24"
36-48" fixture: 11 PAR @ 12", 4.5 PAR @ 24"
48-60" fixture: 16 PAR @ 12", 6 PAR @ 24"
*Notes:* Probably not suitable for even low light plants unless the tank is very shallow.

*Marineland Double Bright*
_PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
18-24 inch fixture: 30 PAR @ 12", 17 PAR @ 24"
24-36 inch fixture: 35 PAR @ 12", 19 PAR @ 24"
36-48 inch fixture: 54 PAR @ 12", 26 PAR @ 24"
48-60 inch fixture: 73 PAR @ 12", 35 PAR @ 24"
*Notes:* Should provide low light for most tanks, depending on fixture size.

*Marineland Reef Capable* 
_PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
1876 PAR @ surface
253 PAR @ 6"
170 PAR @ 12"
110 PAR @ 18"
80 PAR @ 24"
*Notes:* Would probably have to be hung at least 1 foot above most tanks to prevent lots of algae. Great for high light on a tall tank as well. Thanks goes out again to AquaNerd blog, much better than the information in Marineland's catalog.

*Maxspect Mazarra LED Lighting System* 
_PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
350 PAR @ 20"
*Notes:* Check out the source link on this one, gives coverage data as well. This system is designed for reef applications, so put out very, very high PAR. They use the newest CREE XM-L emmiters, which are very powerful. Probably too powerful for anything a plant enthusiast could use. Click here for an image of what a reefer has done with this setup, and the extremely high PAR he's getting. Credit for PAR reedings on that image goes to Acrotrdco.

*TMC AquaBeam 1500XG Ocean White* 
_PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
231 PAR @ surface (7” through air)
161 PAR @ 10”
104 PAR @ 14”
78 PAR @ 19”
52 PAR @ 25”
*Notes:* Uses 10 x 9000K Cree XP-G diodes.

*TMC GroBeam 1000 Natural Daylight*
_PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
195 PAR @ surface (7” through air)
120 PAR @ 10”
80 PAR @ 14”
52 PAR @ 19”
41 PAR @ 25”
*Notes:* Uses 10 x 6500K Cree XP-E Compact PowerLEDS.

*WingoLED Fluval Edge Savior*
_PAR Data(Source)_
*Notes:* Click on the source link for par data here, shows PAR values for various points at the bottom of the aquarium. Very nice solution for the Fluval Edge line of aquariums, where space and coverage are in inherent issue with this tank design. Credit for PAR data goes to WingoAgency.

*WingoLED PAR38 Bulbs*
PAR38 15x1W WingoLED DayLight 12,000K
PAR38 12x1W WingoLED TriBand 60 degree
PAR38 18x1W WingoLED Perfect Sprectrum
PAR38 15x1W WingoLED DayLight 6,700K
*Notes:* Just click on the links for these individually, great graphical par data is provided. Credit for PAR data goes to WingoAgency.


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## samamorgan

*Not all spectrums are created equal!*
_Analyzing photosynthetically active radiation (PUR)_

*Please keep in mind that the following is purely informational, and should be taken very lightly if at all when considering an LED fixture purchase!*

One of the reasons LEDs can be so much more efficient than T5, compact flourescent, and even metal halide is spectrum output. The chlorophyll pigment is green in color, which means that it reflects the green spectrum of light to our eyes so we see it as green. This means that it absorbs all other spectrums of visible light. Check out this graph:







As you can see, plants absorb visible light very well between ~400-500nm and ~650-700nm. The absorbtion rate drops off significantly in the green and yellow spectrums. Here are some LED emmiter comparisons in terms of specrum. Big thanks to redfishsc for doing the footwork on this. Notice that the warm white LEDs put out significantly lower blue spectrum spikes, but much higher red-yellow spectrum spikes. Essentially this tells us that cool white LEDs are almost always better for plant growth.

LEDs put out very specific spectrums of light, which are defined by the manufacturer. LED manufacturers can fine tune emmiters to put out exactly the spectrum specified by the client. Since PAR meters measure light between 400-700nm, an LED array putting out less par than a broad spectrum flourescent fixture may actually be putting out more photosynthetically usable radiation (PUR).

*Why is this concept important?*
Say two LED emmiters read around 100 PAR on a meter. The first LED spikes highest in the 550nm range. The second LED spikes highest in the 450nm range. So while both emmiters have the same PAR value, emmiter two would actually grow plants very well because it is in a range that can be absorbed by the plant, while emmiter one would probably keep plants limping along, if they could even survive.


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## samamorgan

Placeholder.


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## Storm

Great job!  I have a feeling that in the next 3-6 months there are going to be a ton of nice LED lighting setups hitting the planted aquarium world. This should be interesting! /popcorn


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## Gnomecatcher

Could you possibly explain what the PAR number means? I know what PAR is, but I don't know what the number means. Thanks for the info! Very helpful to see them all compared next to each other.


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## WingoAgency

Flickr 上 WingoAgency 的 PAR38 15x1W WingoLED DayLight 12,000K PAR DATA


Flickr 上 WingoAgency 的 PAR38 12x1W WingoLED TriBand 60 degree PAR DATA


Flickr 上 WingoAgency 的 PAR38 18x1W WingoLED Perfect Sprectrum PAR DATA


Flickr 上 WingoAgency 的 PAR38 15x1W WingoLED DayLight 6,700K PAR DATA

Source: WingoLED


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## WingoAgency

Sam, can you put the values over a coverage on your charts as well?


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## samamorgan

WingoAgency said:


> Sam, can you put the values over a coverage on your charts as well?


This would have to be done graphically, and i dont want to have to make a new graphic every time i add a new fixture to the list. Fixtures with coverage charts will be just sourced to like the SKKYE lights are. Adding a bunch of extra information in text format to each line would make this much harder to read though too. If someone can think of a better way to do it, by all means let me know!


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## WingoAgency

samamorgan said:


> This would have to be done graphically, and i dont want to have to make a new graphic every time i add a new fixture to the list. Fixtures with coverage charts will be just sourced to like the SKKYE lights are. Adding a bunch of extra information in text format to each line would make this much harder to read though too. If someone can think of a better way to do it, by all means let me know!


But without coverage, the data given is of very little meaning, because the LEDs are angular and most fixtures are length wise and thus 6 inches off center is very different from the center value. Furthermore, 6 inches to the left vs 6 inches to front is a big difference too. We need to find a precise way of charting them.


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## samamorgan

Coverage is going to vary from fixture to fixture, depending on fixture size and array layout. Patterns are never going to be the same between all fixtures, as they have multiple light sources. So there is really no way i can think of to accurately chart every manufacturers coverage in an easily readable format. Especially considering this is just dug up information, we would have to contact every manufacturer and get PAR data at different depths and offsets or just do it ourselves, which would be wayyyy beyond anything im willing to do.

This is really meant to be a place to come to get an idea of what a fixture is capable of that someone may be looking at buying, without having to go through all the research that i did to find this information out.


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## WingoAgency

Reasonable.




samamorgan said:


> Coverage is going to vary from fixture to fixture, depending on fixture size and array layout. Patterns are never going to be the same between all fixtures, as they have multiple light sources. So there is really no way i can think of to accurately chart every manufacturers coverage in an easily readable format. Especially considering this is just dug up information, we would have to contact every manufacturer and get PAR data at different depths and offsets or just do it ourselves, which would be wayyyy beyond anything im willing to do.
> 
> This is really meant to be a place to come to get an idea of what a fixture is capable of that someone may be looking at buying, without having to go through all the research that i did to find this information out.


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## DishyFishy

I have been looking for something like this for a while. Thanks much for the info and the work!


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## Atheris

Thank you! I literally just came here to investigate lighting and was wondering about LEDs. Unbelievable timing.


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## samamorgan

I'm glad this is proving useful 

I'm thinking about just emailing all the led lighting manufacturers i can think of and asking for PAR vs distance data.


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## pandacory

Please do!

That would he incredibly helpful! I am also on the verge of new lights, either upgraded flourescents and wait 2years or so for led tech to mature, or bite the bullet now and get led to keep for 5 years.

Lighting always seems to be a two fold problem. 1. Finding data on available lights or DIY stuff with decent qualitative assessments and 2. Agreeing what light ranges qualify low, med and high as I have seen such different answers out there!

Thanks a bunch, this is a great resource!


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## Storm

Could we make this a sticky? This is very useful information.


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## samamorgan

Storm said:


> Could we make this a sticky? This is very useful information.


That would be cool. Is this something a mod would have to do?

I have emailed all the manufacturers that I know of who sell led aquarium lighting asking for par cs distance data. Already have several replies, TMC notably said they would get right on it and give me the information in a couple days. So this thread may get much bigger soon.


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## samamorgan

Response from AquaticLife to my multi manufacturer email:



> Thanks for thinking of us for the planted tank forum. I’m sorry to say but *our current LED strips are not really geared for plant growth*, they are weighted heavily to the marine side and even for the marine we are using them *only for accent lighting or fish only systems*. We are working on a freshwater version that we hope to release soon but again this would be used for a fish only system.
> 
> As for growing plants we will have some higher wattage LED soon and we can assist in getting PAR values, spectrums and additional details when the product is released.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave Troop
> 
> Aquatic Life, LLC


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## samamorgan

Response from Tropical Marine Center to my multi manufacturer email:



> Following your email of yesterday, I’ve taken some readings from two of the units we recommend for planted aquaria. These were taken using an Apogee Model QMSS meter. The lights are mounted 7” above the water surface (this is the height where we achieve the best balance between shimmer effect, light spread and sufficient PAR, given maximum water depth of 20”. For deeper displays or where higher PAR is required at substrate, the lights would be mounted closer to the water surface).
> 
> The readings I got were as follows:
> 
> *AquaBeam 1500XG Ocean White (10 x 9000K Cree XP-G diodes):*
> 
> 231 PAR @ surface (7” through air)
> 161 PAR @ 3”
> 104 PAR @ 7”
> 78 PAR @ 12”
> 52 PAR @ 18”
> 
> *GroBeam 1000 Natural Daylight (10 x 6500K Cree XP-E Compact PowerLEDS)*
> 
> 195 PAR @ surface (7” through air)
> 120 PAR @ 3”
> 80 PAR @ 7”
> 52 PAR @ 12”
> 41 PAR @ 18”
> 
> I’ve attached the relevant pages from our aquatics catalogue – if there is in further information you require, please let me know.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Gyles Westcott
> AquaRay Lighting Consultant


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## samamorgan

Got a long response from EcoTech about their Radion light, no help there. This isn't surprising considering that they are marine geared. I won't post the whole thing as they said they havent done any research and it shouldn't be considered an official statement from EcoTech, but heres the overall statement:



> Please investigate for yourself.


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## monkeyfish

Great thread, definitely sticky worthy. Subscribing as the next two tanks I have planned will be getting LED's for sure.


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## samamorgan

Added some educational information on spectrum pertaining to LEDs.


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## madness

Great thread. Not sure how I didn't notice it before.


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## Hoppy

samamorgan said:


> *Not all spectrums are created equal!*
> _Analyzing photosynthetically active radiation (PUR)_
> 
> One of the reasons LEDs can be so much more efficient than T5, compact flourescent, and even metal halide is spectrum output. The chlorophyll pigment is green in color, which means that it reflects the green spectrum of light to our eyes so we see it as green. This means that it absorbs all other spectrums of visible light. Check out this graph:
> 
> As you can see, plants absorb visible light very well between ~400-500nm and ~650-700nm. The absorbtion rate drops off significantly in the green and yellow spectrums.
> 
> LEDs put out very specific spectrums of light, which are defined by the manufacturer. LED manufacturers can fine tune emmiters to put out exactly the spectrum specified by the client. Since PAR meters measure light between 400-700nm, an LED array putting out less par than a broad spectrum flourescent fixture may actually be putting out more photosynthetically usable radiation (PUR).
> 
> *Why is this concept important?*
> Say two LED emmiters read around 100 PAR on a meter. The first LED spikes highest in the 550nm range. The second LED spikes highest in the 450nm range. So while both emmiters have the same PAR value, emmiter two would actually grow plants very well because it is in a range that can be absorbed by the plant, while emmiter one would probably keep plants limping along, if they could even survive.


Just because plants are green doesn't mean they reflect all of the green parts of the light spectrum. It means they reflect more green than red, primarily, and blue secondarily. Another reason plants look green is that our eyes are very sensitive to green, but not at all sensitive to red. But, plants absorb all parts of the spectrum to some extent. Most LEDs don't have the very high spikes in output that we see with fluorescent lights. The ones I have seen have a peak, for sure, but it is a broad one, and there is still a lot of light emitted that isn't in that peak.

Until we know how much PAR we are getting with various lights in various configurations it makes little sense to try to complicate matters by also worrying about PUR. PUR was of much more importance when it was hard to get enough light to grow plants, and anything that would increase the amount of usable light we were getting from a light fixture was something good to pursue. Now, the biggest lighting problem we have is having way more light (PAR) than we can easily use on our tanks. So PUR becomes much less relevant.

I find the collecting of PAR data for various manufactured LED light fixtures very useful, and I hope we can expand it eventually to include all such lights that are available. Let's not complicate it.


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## samamorgan

I actually added this because i see a lot of questions like "why wont my incandescent/actinic lights grow plants? I've got enough wattage!"

I know that light reflection and human eye perception is much more complicated that i made it out to be, but actually adding that information in there would just complicate the idea i was trying to get across. You can see in the chart that the other spectrums are absorbed by the plant to a point, but not at nearly the rate that the proper spectrums are.

Also, wouldnt this factor in quite a bit from emmiter to emmiter? I know a lot of fixture manufacturers order patented emmiters from cree that put out the spectrums they want. Those patented emmiters vs a regular cool white would be significantly different in useable plant light, right?

If you really think this complicates things too much or its really just not useful end-user information, i'd be glad to take it down. If you think it is useful and can think of a way to improve the information in a concise way, i'm all for editing it. I'd like this thing to be a knowledge base from the community - for the community, not just from my point of view.


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## manini

Great information on LED lighting. I am about to begin my experiments on the AI Sol product on a 18 gal tank. Cant wait to see what kind of results I will be getting.


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## samamorgan

manini said:


> Great information on LED lighting. I am about to begin my experiments on the AI Sol product on a 18 gal tank. Cant wait to see what kind of results I will be getting.


Nice! I kinda wanted to get that fixture myself, but it's so much moneys!


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## WingoAgency

manini said:


> Great information on LED lighting. I am about to begin my experiments on the AI Sol product on a 18 gal tank. Cant wait to see what kind of results I will be getting.




That seems VERY OVERKILL! 24 3-5W over a 18G! Do you mean the nano?


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## samamorgan

WingoAgency said:


> That seems VERY OVERKILL! 24 3-5W over a 18G! Do you mean the nano?


I thought this too, have to hang it pretty high


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## akpoly

I have some TrueLumens that I just got. I'm waiting for my hands on a par meter. I can let you know what those get once I find out.


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## monkeyfish

I sent a request for info on the trulumen pro fixtures to current-usa. I'll post their response if i get one.


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## JoeGREEEN

SUBSCRIBED 

I smell a SticKy on this
Awesome!


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## ucantimagine

So to bottom line this, if we can: Is LED made specifically for aquariam lighting better than, equal to or not as good as a comparable T5 HO light?


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## galabar

samamorgan said:


> *Not all spectrums are created equal!*
> _Analyzing photosynthetically active radiation (PUR)_
> 
> One of the reasons LEDs can be so much more efficient than T5, compact flourescent, and even metal halide is spectrum output. The chlorophyll pigment is green in color, which means that it reflects the green spectrum of light to our eyes so we see it as green. This means that it absorbs all other spectrums of visible light. Check out this graph:
> View attachment 40237
> 
> As you can see, plants absorb visible light very well between ~400-500nm and ~650-700nm. The absorbtion rate drops off significantly in the green and yellow spectrums.
> 
> LEDs put out very specific spectrums of light, which are defined by the manufacturer. LED manufacturers can fine tune emmiters to put out exactly the spectrum specified by the client. Since PAR meters measure light between 400-700nm, an LED array putting out less par than a broad spectrum flourescent fixture may actually be putting out more photosynthetically usable radiation (PUR).
> 
> *Why is this concept important?*
> Say two LED emmiters read around 100 PAR on a meter. The first LED spikes highest in the 550nm range. The second LED spikes highest in the 450nm range. So while both emmiters have the same PAR value, emmiter two would actually grow plants very well because it is in a range that can be absorbed by the plant, while emmiter one would probably keep plants limping along, if they could even survive.


Would it be possible to roughly estimate this by using green and yellow filters? If you were to get some photographic filters that block the green and yellow light that aren't all that useful, you might get a better idea of the PUR values of these LEDs.


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## samamorgan

monkeyfish said:


> I sent a request for info on the trulumen pro fixtures to current-usa. I'll post their response if i get one.


Sweet! I've got an email sent their way about a week ago with no response yet. The more people that chime in the better.

List of who I contanced on the mass email sent out 1/08/2012:

AquaticLife -responded, information added
Current USA
EcoTech - responded, useless information
Ecoxotic
Elos
Hydra Aquatics
Ista
JBJ
Kessil - responded, information added.
Marineland
Maxspect - responded, information added
Orphek
Tropical Marine Center - responded, information added
UP Aqua

The fact that its been over a week now and i havent gotten so much as a wink from most of these manufacturers is kinda disheartening. I would think that the prospect of free advertising and the potential for a broader customer base would be extremely appealing. For those who did respond so far, most responded within the first two days. Good customer service for the win!


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## samamorgan

galabar said:


> Would it be possible to roughly estimate this by using green and yellow filters? If you were to get some photographic filters that block the green and yellow light that aren't all that useful, you might get a better idea of the PUR values of these LEDs.


That's an interesting idea. I honestly don't know if that would work or not, but it sounds reasonable. My thought is: if it was really that simple, wouldnt the manufacturers already have done this to their sensors?


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## samamorgan

Here is the response i got from Kessil:


> Hello Sam,
> 
> Thank you for presenting us with this opportunity.
> 
> We currently do not have official PAR measurements. There are people who have done so and I can include a link. What we have found is that the value even between units that perform the same differs greatly. We also see that different meters have different results and some do not measure UV or near UV. This is one of the reasons we spend over 1 year of independent testing on reef tanks, and we allowed our local stores in the SF bay area to test first hand as well.
> 
> I hope this link helps and feel free to let me know if you have any questions. I get a lot of feedback that Post #10 & #114 are very helpful to end users. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2040877&page=5
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> David Lowry
> Sales Manager


Oddly enough, i found post #71 to be more relevant.


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## WingoAgency

Par data of couple Edge Saviors


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## samamorgan

WingoAgency said:


> Par data of couple Edge Saviors


Im now noticing that you don't have a website for information on your products. Could you put up some kind of site I can link to for consumer direction? The par values don't help anyone if they can't access the product.


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## madness

ucantimagine said:


> So to bottom line this, if we can: Is LED made specifically for aquariam lighting better than, equal to or not as good as a comparable T5 HO light?


From what I have read the answer is probably 'better.'

One benefit of LEDs is that they can mix different spectrum LEDs in one fixture to target specific spectrums of light whereas in flourescent lighting they have to coat the bulb with a specific phosphor to get a certain wavelength light out of the bulb and I think that there is a limit to how many different phosphors that they can efficiently use.

That doesn't even address secondary features like energy savings, dimming features, light penetration, increased life span, ability to create 'shimmer', etc.


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## galabar

galabar said:


> Would it be possible to roughly estimate this by using green and yellow filters? If you were to get some photographic filters that block the green and yellow light that aren't all that useful, you might get a better idea of the PUR values of these LEDs.





samamorgan said:


> That's an interesting idea. I honestly don't know if that would work or not, but it sounds reasonable. My thought is: if it was really that simple, wouldnt the manufacturers already have done this to their sensors?


Does anyone have a PAR meter and a few photographic filters? Maybe put a green filter over the PAR meter probe and see what they get with various light sources?


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## WingoAgency

samamorgan said:


> Im now noticing that you don't have a website for information on your products. Could you put up some kind of site I can link to for consumer direction? The par values don't help anyone if they can't access the product.


LOL, true!:biggrin:


We are building a new site so please excuse our appearance. And not all links are functioning yet.  
http://www.wingoled.com/sample-page/

Contact info are available in the site adn we are happy to answer any inquires or support questions and we can direct you to dealers nearest you or internet sellers.


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## Ibn

Custom LED fixture built by a buddy. Fan cooled by 2 10mm fans. Forgot the details of the bulbs and driver. 



















PAR readings from what's currently run (12 bulbs out of 18; first channel whites 100% output; 2nd channel 4 blues, 2 whites 25% output; 3rd channel all blues off). 7" above the waterline or 16" to substrate depth in the front.









PAR readings taken with Apogee unit.


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## galabar

Ibn said:


> Custom LED fixture built by a buddy. Fan cooled by 2 10mm fans. Forgot the details of the bulbs and driver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PAR readings from what's currently run (12 bulbs out of 18; first channel whites 100% output; 2nd channel 4 blues, 2 whites 25% output; 3rd channel all blues off). 7" above the waterline or 16" to substrate depth in the front.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PAR readings taken with


Nice, he needs to market those.


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## Algae Beater

i have 5 Vertex Illumilux strips. they use 6 x 3 watt cree Xp-E diodes per linear foot, i have had nothing short of phenominal colour and growth from these lines. I also have an ecotec fixture on one of my SW tanks and some 12 x 1 watt par38s of a few of my nano setups.


----------



## samamorgan

Ibn said:


> Custom LED fixture built by a buddy. Fan cooled by 2 10mm fans. Forgot the details of the bulbs and driver.
> 
> PAR readings from what's currently run (12 bulbs out of 18; first channel whites 100% output; 2nd channel 4 blues, 2 whites 25% output; 3rd channel all blues off). 7" above the waterline or 16" to substrate depth in the front
> 
> PAR readings taken with Apogee unit.


Thats a really sweet fixture! I'm a little jealous. Not really anything i can add to the starter post but someone might find it useful when digging through here


----------



## bassmjm

Any word on the tmc 500/600?


----------



## kalawai2000

Any word from Marineland?


----------



## samamorgan

bassmjm said:


> Any word on the tmc 500/600?





kalawai2000 said:


> Any word from Marineland?


No need to ask me for word, as soon as i get any information from manufacturers I will update the page promptly.


----------



## dewalltheway

samamorgan said:


> *Not all spectrums are created equal!*
> _Analyzing photosynthetically active radiation (PUR)_
> 
> One of the reasons LEDs can be so much more efficient than T5, compact flourescent, and even metal halide is spectrum output. The chlorophyll pigment is green in color, which means that it reflects the green spectrum of light to our eyes so we see it as green. This means that it absorbs all other spectrums of visible light. Check out this graph:
> View attachment 40237
> 
> As you can see, plants absorb visible light very well between ~400-500nm and ~650-700nm. The absorbtion rate drops off significantly in the green and yellow spectrums.
> 
> LEDs put out very specific spectrums of light, which are defined by the manufacturer. LED manufacturers can fine tune emmiters to put out exactly the spectrum specified by the client. Since PAR meters measure light between 400-700nm, an LED array putting out less par than a broad spectrum flourescent fixture may actually be putting out more photosynthetically usable radiation (PUR).
> 
> *Why is this concept important?*
> Say two LED emmiters read around 100 PAR on a meter. The first LED spikes highest in the 550nm range. The second LED spikes highest in the 450nm range. So while both emmiters have the same PAR value, emmiter two would actually grow plants very well because it is in a range that can be absorbed by the plant, while emmiter one would probably keep plants limping along, if they could even survive.


So when you are saying 450nm is that the same as 450 lumens because I have seen lumens abbreviated as lm and wanted to make sure I was reading the chart correctly.


----------



## samamorgan

dewalltheway said:


> So when you are saying 450nm is that the same as 450 lumens because I have seen lumens abbreviated as lm and wanted to make sure I was reading the chart correctly.


Nothing in this thread has anything to do with lumens. A lumen is a measure of light visible to the human eye, and has little to nothing to do with plants. Nm is nanometers, and 450nm is the measure in nanometers between any two crests in that wavelength of light.

This should help:


----------



## Hoppy

*ATTENTION MODERATORS:* This thread is getting harder to find now. It needs to be a sticky so we can locate the collected data on LED lights more easily. This has been mentioned by several people, but hasn't been done yet. *PLEASE!*


----------



## samamorgan

Seconded.


----------



## bereninga

Thirded! I've actually subscribed to this thread, but it should be sticky for sure. Very useful info here.


----------



## redfishsc

This is a fantastic thread. Absolutely fantastic. 

I have frequently thought of doing this with DIY LEDs (single LEDs, no optics, standard drive current) for data for Hoppy to run through his magic brain since he's the most capable person I know for predicting PAR levels. 

FWIW, since many of those units you linked to are using Cree and Rebel LEDs, here is a thread I started a while back of some spectral analysis of Cree, Rebel, Bridgelux, and Satistronics LEDs--- taken via the radiometer at UNC Wilmington. Those LEDs now sit over my own 45g planted and my reef. 



Feel free to link my thread in your original post if you think it's useful.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/136519-spectral-analysis-leds-use-over-planted.html



Hoppy said:


> *ATTENTION MODERATORS:* This thread is getting harder to find now. It needs to be a sticky so we can locate the collected data on LED lights more easily. This has been mentioned by several people, but hasn't been done yet. *PLEASE!*


Agreed. MAJOR agreed.


----------



## dundadundun

Hoppy said:


> *ATTENTION MODERATORS:* This thread is getting harder to find now. It needs to be a sticky so we can locate the collected data on LED lights more easily. This has been mentioned by several people, but hasn't been done yet. *PLEASE!*


post reported and plea made. looks like it might have worked.

EDIT: thanks to the mod team.


----------



## Gatekeeper

dundadundun said:


> EDIT: thanks to the mod team.


That's an admin decision straight from the boss himself Kyle. Man, stickies are a rare thing on this forum, we don't hand them out like comps at a casino, that's for sure. You must be doing something right, keep up the good work folks.


----------



## samamorgan

Gatekeeper said:


> That's an admin decision straight from the boss himself Kyle. Man, stickies are a rare thing on this forum, we don't hand them out like comps at a casino, that's for sure. You must be doing something right, keep up the good work folks.


Thanks a bunch! I'm glad this is proving to be of use to people.

I'm still wondering what the community thinks, and Hoppy in particular, do you really think that the spectrum analyzation thing over-complicates things, or isnt helpful information? Is there a way to make that information more applicable?


----------



## Hoppy

samamorgan said:


> Thanks a bunch! I'm glad this is proving to be of use to people.
> 
> I'm still wondering what the community thinks, and Hoppy in particular, do you really think that the spectrum analyzation thing over-complicates things, or isnt helpful information? Is there a way to make that information more applicable?


I think it is hard enough to get an appropriate PAR amount for our tanks, without introducing another complication. Perhaps in a few years PAR will be easy to handle, and then we can move up to more sophisticated analysis of light needs.

At this point I don't know of any testing that demonstrates that a given level of PAR works better if the PUR is optimized vs. an ordinary T5HO or LED light. If it works better I would expect it to allow usage of more light without more algae. The odds on that are pretty small though.


----------



## samamorgan

Hoppy said:


> I think it is hard enough to get an appropriate PAR amount for our tanks, without introducing another complication. Perhaps in a few years PAR will be easy to handle, and then we can move up to more sophisticated analysis of light needs.
> 
> At this point I don't know of any testing that demonstrates that a given level of PAR works better if the PUR is optimized vs. an ordinary T5HO or LED light. If it works better I would expect it to allow usage of more light without more algae. The odds on that are pretty small though.


I see your point. I added a disclaimer to the post that hopefully people will pay attention to. I think it's valuable information, but you're right, it really shouldnt factor into purchases on the list.


----------



## WingoAgency

Couple members have asked me about the Spectral Dash that I put on Beta Test Program

The Product Page is here
The Par Data Charts are here


----------



## samamorgan

WingoAgency said:


> Couple members have asked me about the Spectral Dash that I put on Beta Test Program
> 
> The Product Page is here
> The Par Data Charts are here


I will add it once it's out of beta and is a purchasable product, unless it is already and I'm missing something? Let me know.


----------



## WingoAgency

samamorgan said:


> I will add it once it's out of beta and is a purchasable product, unless it is already and I'm missing something? Let me know.


You and I never sleep. LOL


----------



## samamorgan

Haha, yeah. I'm up till 5am nearly every night researching crap and doing math for college, because my classes dont start until 1pm. Since my mind doesnt work well in the mornings, I just stay up late


----------



## mubender

Any estimations on the ECOXOTIC "Ecopico" arm light?....was curious as to what the PAR readings may be for the light set up with three strips...I.E.
8x12000k white led's
1x453nm blue led.

i have this running over a 12x12x12 cube with 2 inches of substrate...the strip sits roughly 2 inches above water level.

I'm wondering if i need to add another arm, or if i would be fine with what i have for high light plants.


----------



## samamorgan

mubender said:


> Any estimations on the ECOXOTIC "Ecopico" arm light?....was curious as to what the PAR readings may be for the light set up with three strips...I.E.
> 8x12000k white led's
> 1x453nm blue led.
> 
> i have this running over a 12x12x12 cube with 2 inches of substrate...the strip sits roughly 2 inches above water level.
> 
> I'm wondering if i need to add another arm, or if i would be fine with what i have for high light plants.


You should be in the medium/high range with three strips at that depth. This is just an estimate based on my experiences with the panorama fixture though, which appear to use the same LEDs. A single panorama with 9 white emmiters and 3 blue emmiters provides around 70 par at the substrate for me, same depth as yours, hung 4 inches up. I would assume 9 emmiters on your fixture would provide roughly the same for your setup as well.


----------



## hoffman

Hoppy said:


> Just because plants are green doesn't mean they reflect all of the green parts of the light spectrum. It means they reflect more green than red, primarily, and blue secondarily. Another reason plants look green is that our eyes are very sensitive to green, but not at all sensitive to red. But, plants absorb all parts of the spectrum to some extent. Most LEDs don't have the very high spikes in output that we see with fluorescent lights. The ones I have seen have a peak, for sure, but it is a broad one, and there is still a lot of light emitted that isn't in that peak.
> 
> Until we know how much PAR we are getting with various lights in various configurations it makes little sense to try to complicate matters by also worrying about PUR. PUR was of much more importance when it was hard to get enough light to grow plants, and anything that would increase the amount of usable light we were getting from a light fixture was something good to pursue. Now, the biggest lighting problem we have is having way more light (PAR) than we can easily use on our tanks. So PUR becomes much less relevant.
> 
> I find the collecting of PAR data for various manufactured LED light fixtures very useful, and I hope we can expand it eventually to include all such lights that are available. Let's not complicate it.



I'm a little confused. I see a lot of reefers and lighting companies use PUR for LED comparison. Not saying it's right, just an observation. TMC, for example, boasts it's PUR ratings, and they seem to be regarded as one of the best manufacturers. At least they've paid rights to use the most advanced patents. They don't score very high on the PAR values, based on this thread. 


Are you suggesting that because LEDs emit a broad, even spectrum, any light in the green range which is not utilized does not weigh heavily on the PUR rating as say a fluorescent light which spikes in the green? I think I understand the logic, but it may be swaying results more than "nominally."


----------



## galabar

hoffman said:


> I'm a little confused. I see a lot of reefers and lighting companies use PUR for LED comparison. Not saying it's right, just an observation. TMC, for example, boasts it's PUR ratings, and they seem to be regarded as one of the best manufacturers. At least they've paid rights to use the most advanced patents. They don't score very high on the PAR values, based on this thread.
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that because LEDs emit a broad, even spectrum, any light in the green range which is not utilized does not weigh heavily on the PUR rating as say a fluorescent light which spikes in the green? I think I understand the logic, but it may be swaying results more than "nominally."


I think they are arguing that they don't have a way of testing PUR, so that aren't considering it. I would tend to lean towards the spectrum of light being critical, so I'd love to see more PUR information. I suggested possibly using various photographic filters to try to tease out this information (if in a very crude way).


----------



## samamorgan

LEDs don't emit a broad, even spectrum. They emit fairly spiky spectrums, and only emit visible wavelengths. this is unlike MH and flourescent, which emit lots of ultraviolet and infrared.

LED spectrum analysis is fairly well documented in post #2, click the link in there to see.


----------



## galabar

samamorgan said:


> LEDs don't emit a broad, even spectrum. They emit fairly spiky spectrums, and only emit visible wavelengths. this is unlike MH and flourescent, which emit lots of ultraviolet and infrared.
> 
> LED spectrum analysis is fairly well documented in post #2, click the link in there to see.


Your post is what got me thinking about this. If we could filter out/block light in the 550 nm to 625 nm range, we might get more interesting information. Of course, this would mean that we would actually have to have the lights being tested, as well as a PAR meter, and some form of filtering to block that range of wavelengths.


----------



## Hoppy

samamorgan said:


> LEDs don't emit a broad, even spectrum. They emit fairly spiky spectrums, and only emit visible wavelengths. this is unlike MH and flourescent, which emit lots of ultraviolet and infrared.
> 
> LED spectrum analysis is fairly well documented in post #2, click the link in there to see.


Fluorescent lights don't emit ultraviolet. The glass tube stops any ultraviolet emissions, and the phosphors convert UV to visible light. (That's why the phosphors are there.)



hoffman said:


> I'm a little confused. I see a lot of reefers and lighting companies use PUR for LED comparison. Not saying it's right, just an observation. TMC, for example, boasts it's PUR ratings, and they seem to be regarded as one of the best manufacturers. At least they've paid rights to use the most advanced patents. They don't score very high on the PAR values, based on this thread.
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that because LEDs emit a broad, even spectrum, any light in the green range which is not utilized does not weigh heavily on the PUR rating as say a fluorescent light which spikes in the green? I think I understand the logic, but it may be swaying results more than "nominally."


All I am saying is that it is a mistake to assume that green plants mean that no green light is being absorbed by the plants. Plants do use green light, just not as well as they use red and blue. Our eyes are not very good for seeing red light, but very good for seeing green light, so whatever green light is reflected by the leaves looks brighter than it really is on an absolute scale. Or, perhaps I could say, "don't believe your lying eyes!".


----------



## galabar

Hoppy said:


> Fluorescent lights don't emit ultraviolet. The glass tube stops any ultraviolet emissions, and the phosphors convert UV to visible light. (That's why the phosphors are there.)
> 
> 
> 
> All I am saying is that it is a mistake to assume that green plants mean that no green light is being absorbed by the plants. Plants do use green light, just not as well as they use red and blue. Our eyes are not very good for seeing red light, but very good for seeing green light, so whatever green light is reflected by the leaves looks brighter than it really is on an absolute scale. Or, perhaps I could say, "don't believe your lying eyes!".


There doesn't seem to be much going on in the 525 nm to 625 nm range:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll
http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html


----------



## samamorgan

Hoppy said:


> Our eyes are not very good for seeing red light, but very good for seeing green light, so whatever green light is reflected by the leaves looks brighter than it really is on an absolute scale. Or, perhaps I could say, "don't believe your lying eyes!".


Hence why green dot weapon sights are starting to become more of a standard than red, easier to see in most conditions.

Also, flourescent lights do emit UV, in small amounts. Even LEDs do, but its so sicnificantly lower than everything else it might aswell not be considered.


----------



## Hoppy

samamorgan said:


> Also, flourescent lights do emit UV, in small amounts. Even LEDs do, but its so sicnificantly lower than everything else it might aswell not be considered.


Yes, you are right. It is a very tiny amount of UV.


----------



## Hardax

Would having 2 sets of LED fixtures double the PAR value like it does for T5HO?

I have 2 of the Marineland Double Brights on my 18" high tank and wonder where I am at for light levels?


----------



## Hoppy

Hardax said:


> Would having 2 sets of LED fixtures double the PAR value like it does for T5HO?
> 
> I have 2 of the Marineland Double Brights on my 18" high tank and wonder where I am at for light levels?


It would only double the PAR if the two lights were sitting right together. That light doesn't spread out a lot, so two widely separated lights would each light up the substrate directly under them, and between them the PAR would probably be a little less, but might be about the same.


----------



## Drewsplantednutz

*20g lowlight plants LED suggestions???*

Thank you so much for this post. I'm new to having plants in my tank and love leds. I seen the marineland single bright 18-24 at petsmart and had to buy it. I did a little research onit before that and was only comparing it to their double bright model. I have a low light plant package I bought from plantedaquariumscentral.com. After about a week using this light, my anacharis looks like its tips are starting to curl downward. Soooooo, I packed that light back in its box and will be returning it today and putting that $50 towards a real led light. I want a strip type that will sit on top of my open 20g high. I'm looking at the ecoxotic panorama or stunner because I want to be able to upgrade to a 55g and only have to buy an extra strip to add to what I would have. Anyone recommend a led strip/bar type for under $100 for my 20g high? I have Java fern, Java moss, anacharis, a marimo ball, crypto wendtii, crypto retrospiralis and dwarf baby tears. From what ive read, the baby tears are out of my league but I wanted that nice lawn look for my foreground. Any led suggestions?


----------



## samamorgan

Drewsplantednutz said:


> Thank you so much for this post. I'm new to having plants in my tank and love leds. I seen the marineland single bright 18-24 at petsmart and had to buy it. I did a little research onit before that and was only comparing it to their double bright model. I have a low light plant package I bought from plantedaquariumscentral.com. After about a week using this light, my anacharis looks like its tips are starting to curl downward. Soooooo, I packed that light back in its box and will be returning it today and putting that $50 towards a real led light. I want a strip type that will sit on top of my open 20g high. I'm looking at the ecoxotic panorama or stunner because I want to be able to upgrade to a 55g and only have to buy an extra strip to add to what I would have. Anyone recommend a led strip/bar type for under $100 for my 20g high? I have Java fern, Java moss, anacharis, a marimo ball, crypto wendtii, crypto retrospiralis and dwarf baby tears. From what ive read, the baby tears are out of my league but I wanted that nice lawn look for my foreground. Any led suggestions?


Glad this helped you out! When it comes to your light needs, you cant carpet HC without at least medium/high light. If i remember correctly, your tank is 24"x13"x17". At that depth and width, i think two 24" stunner strips would give you medium/high light and get you on your way to a good carpet. You'd better be running Co2 though.

http://www.ecoxotic.com/aquarium-led-lights/stunner-led-strips/stunner-led-strips-12-watt.html Get the 8000k white ones. The initial cost is going to be a bit, so you might be able to just start with one strip for now, and upgrade when you've got the money. $80 for one 24" strip, $16 for a power transformer, and 2 x $7 for two reflectors (not required, but recommended). $96 without reflectors for one, $110 for one with reflectors, $204 for two with reflectors.

If you take the HC out of the equation you can probably get away with just one, and add another when you go to 55, since it's 48" long instead of 24". These stunner strips are probably your best option for modularity, since you plan on upgrading. Or a couple panorama fixtures, they cover a little more area. Thats a higher cost though.

A second option would be: go down to IKEA and get a light fixture you wouldnt mind hanging above your tank and are big enough for spotlight bulbs, and get a couple of the WingoLED PAR38 bulbs, they screw into a standard E26/27 bulb socket. I have no idea what these cost, but it's worth looking into, and you could make it match your home decor.


----------



## tankies

is anyone using marineland reef capable fixture and successfully growing high-light plants in their tank?


----------



## tankies

another question for those who uses par 38 = any suggestions on how far to hang it above the tank (thinking of getting a 25gal(24x12x20) and planning to keep plants that require high light)? which angle is better?


----------



## madness

tankies said:


> another question for those who uses par 38 = any suggestions on how far to hang it above the tank (thinking of getting a 25gal(24x12x20) and planning to keep plants that require high light)? which angle is better?


This can just vary so much with LEDs because the angle of the lenses varies.

Someone like WingoLED would be a great person to try and ask specifics though. I think that some specific PAR charts from some of his lights on the first page. Looking at one it shows that at 24" from the substrate (6 inches over the top of the tank assuming 2 inches of substrate and that my math is correct) then in a circle starting at the center of the light you would have 6" in every direction of the light where the PAR was ~60mmols (which is a good number). Due to overlap and other issues you might be able to use 3 of these PAR38 bulbs and get good and high light coverage over the whole tank.

Sort of hard to visualize even with the chart.

Again the best option (after consulting the PAR charts yourself) would be to contact someone like WingoLED and ask them.


----------



## tankies

madness said:


> This can just vary so much with LEDs because the angle of the lenses varies.
> 
> Someone like WingoLED would be a great person to try and ask specifics though. I think that some specific PAR charts from some of his lights on the first page. Looking at one it shows that at 24" from the substrate (6 inches over the top of the tank assuming 2 inches of substrate and that my math is correct) then in a circle starting at the center of the light you would have 6" in every direction of the light where the PAR was ~60mmols (which is a good number). Due to overlap and other issues you might be able to use 3 of these PAR38 bulbs and get good and high light coverage over the whole tank.
> 
> Sort of hard to visualize even with the chart.
> 
> Again the best option (after consulting the PAR charts yourself) would be to contact someone like WingoLED and ask them.



thanks!!! thinking of getting 2 and hang the same distance as you mentioned. dont need to have all corners to be bright as im thinking of getting other plants that require less.


----------



## WingoAgency

tankies said:


> another question for those who uses par 38 = any suggestions on how far to hang it above the tank (thinking of getting a 25gal(24x12x20) and planning to keep plants that require high light)? which angle is better?


60 degree.

If you are using 2 15x1W 6,700K type PAR bulbs and space them 12" apart, 
you get an estimated PAR along the center axis:

58+(left), 102(under the bulb), 116(center), 102(under the bulb), 58+(right),

when the lights are set 30 inch from the bottom of your tank.

The front and the back of the tank is expected to be 58+


----------



## tankies

WingoAgency said:


> 60 degree.
> 
> If you are using 2 15x1W 6,700K type PAR bulbs and space them 12" apart,
> you get an estimated PAR along the center axis:
> 
> 58+(left), 102(under the bulb), 116(center), 102(under the bulb), 58+(right),
> 
> when the lights are set 30 inch from the bottom of your tank.
> 
> The front and the back of the tank is expected to be 58+


most helpful....thanks!


----------



## sockfish

Can any of the Lighting Gurus tell me anything about this light at aquatraders? I have an 18" tall 30 gal tank with just anubias, javas and crypts....

http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Freshwater-Bright-p/56204.htm

How to figure out the PAR?

thanx,
sox


----------



## samamorgan

sockfish said:


> Can any of the Lighting Gurus tell me anything about this light at aquatraders? I have an 18" tall 30 gal tank with just anubias, javas and crypts....
> 
> http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Freshwater-Bright-p/56204.htm
> 
> How to figure out the PAR?
> 
> thanx,
> sox


Odd, that looks exactly like the Marineland Single Bright fixture. Looks like Marineland is probably importing from China and rebranding. Wouldn't be the first time. That fixture uses very low power LEDs that aren't very close together. Wouldn't be suitable for plants beyond low light in a very shallow tank. 0.06W LEDs are laughable.

The only way to figure out PAR is to use a very expensive PAR meter and measure the light output with the fixture on hand at different distances. You can estimate around where the output will be by knowing the values of a similar fixture, but for real accuracy from fixture to fixture you need to actually measure it with a meter.


----------



## SSGWJ

Hoppy said:


> It would only double the PAR if the two lights were sitting right together. That light doesn't spread out a lot, so two widely separated lights would each light up the substrate directly under them, and between them the PAR would probably be a little less, but might be about the same.


I currently have a ML Double Bright (24") on my 29G non-planted tank and I love it. My question... I am in the process of upgrading to a 75 gallon tank for my rainbows (building stand now), and want this to be a low-light planted tank. I'm mainly interested in java moss, ferns, anubias and crypts. The aquarium is in my living room, so aesthetics are important (one of the reasons I love the slim double bright). Based on the PAR ratings I should be OK with low light plants using this fixture, correct? Since the 75G is 48x18x21 there would be plenty of room for two of these fixtures if needed. If I did this, could I even add some medium light plants? Thanks in advance.


----------



## samamorgan

SSGWJ said:


> I currently have a ML Double Bright (24") on my 29G non-planted tank and I love it. My question... I am in the process of upgrading to a 75 gallon tank for my rainbows (building stand now), and want this to be a low-light planted tank. I'm mainly interested in java moss, ferns, anubias and crypts. The aquarium is in my living room, so aesthetics are important (one of the reasons I love the slim double bright). Based on the PAR ratings I should be OK with low light plants using this fixture, correct? Since the 75G is 48x18x21 there would be plenty of room for two of these fixtures if needed. If I did this, could I even add some medium light plants? Thanks in advance.


Yes, you would be in the low-medium range of light. I would get the 48-60" fixture though, it provides better numbers and more coverage. If it isn't enough back to front just get two like you said.


----------



## dasob85

Thanks! This is very informative and just what I was looking for regarding LEDS. I think I will go with the marineland double brights


----------



## burtonman

Did anyone ever explain why I'd want a marineland reef capable light a foot off the top of the tank? Is it too bright?


----------



## madness

burtonman said:


> Did anyone ever explain why I'd want a marineland reef capable light a foot off the top of the tank? Is it too bright?


That is exactly the reason.

50mmol seems to be a good target at the low end of the 'enough light to grow anything' range and any extra light intensity beyond that is just going to go towards increasing the speed of plant growth (and probably also the growth speed of algae unless you have CO2 and ferts perfectly balanced to the amount of light).

The Marineland Reef Capable light is over 100mmol in most common tank sizes and way more than that in shorter tanks.


----------



## madness

Any true and high quality reef lighting system is likely to be significantly overpowered for planted tank applications (not to mention perhaps not being the correct light spectrum).

Doesn't mean that they can't be used but just that you need to do some research first to figure out how to adapt them to planted tank use without causing an algae farm.


----------



## burtonman

Great. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## samamorgan

madness said:


> Any true and high quality reef lighting system is likely to be significantly overpowered for planted tank applications (not to mention perhaps not being the correct light spectrum).
> 
> Doesn't mean that they can't be used but just that you need to do some research first to figure out how to adapt them to planted tank use without causing an algae farm.


It's actually not so much a spectrum for plants problem, it's more of a spectrum for viewing problem. Marine tanks look amazing under very blue light, brings out those great flourescent colors in the coral. Planted tanks look stellar under very crisp white light, making those greens vibrant.


----------



## BillU

I have a quarter cylinder 50 gal tank. I need a new light fixture and want to consider a led. With all of the information i am a little lost as the info is quite extense. the Tank measures 21" deep and is 24" along each flat side. Here is a pic of the tank with a 18" light over it. Could you recommend a couple LED light fixtures - i have pressurized CO2 

thanks in advance.


----------



## akpoly

I borrowed a par meter from SCAPE and posted my results there.

But I thought other people might be interested as well..

All measurements were taken directly perpendicular to the light. Some measurements went beyond the par meter so nothing accurate can be given. >2,000

I took some measurements of the following:
TrueLumen 24" Pro LED 8k and 12k
AI Nano Sol
Super Bright LED LBFA Luxbar 6"
Fluval Edge stock MR11
13W CFL w/ reflector
8W T5 (from a kit aquarium, probably old bulb)

First up is the Truelumen 24" Pro LED strips
..........8K..........12k.........Both
@1"....350.........450..........487
@6"....110.........110.........185
@12"....55..........56..........100

AI Nano Sol @ 100%
.........White.......Blue.........Royal......All
@1"....1,967......>2,000......1,880......>2,000
@6"....235.........258..........315.........836
@12"...70...........66...........106.........244

Super Bright LED LBFA Luxbar 6"
@1"....80
@6"....21
@12"...6

Fluval Edge stock MR11 halogen
@1"....1,500
@6"....99
@12"...26

13W CFL w/ reflector
@1"....512
@6"....52
@12"...14

T5 8W
@1".....96
@6".....15


----------



## exv152

Any thoughts on the new Marineland Aquatic Plant LED set to come out this spring??? Here are some of their posted specs...

PAR/LUX at 12", 172/10530
PAR/LUX at 24", 83/4810

http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/Detail.aspx?id=4653


----------



## Hoppy

exv152 said:


> Any thoughts on the new Marineland Aquatic Plant LED set to come out this spring??? Here are some of their posted specs...
> 
> PAR/LUX at 12", 172/10530
> PAR/LUX at 24", 83/4810
> 
> http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/Detail.aspx?id=4653


I hope it is designed for easy hanging. Most tanks are 24 inches or less high, so to get that 83 micromols of PAR down to a much better 40 micromols, it would need to be as much as 16 inches above the top of the tank. (However, I suspect just using a shorter light, and hanging it a few inches above the tank, would work fine.) And, I wish it included a way of adjusting the RGB LED output.


----------



## madness

That light definitely won't come up short in PAR.

If it falls inbetween the double bright and the reef version in pricing it might be a useful/popular option.


----------



## monkeyfish

Integrated digital timer with separate white and blue light controls, I like that. At 24" height and 6" from center par drops to 43, here's a link with par and spread data: http://www.marineland.com/uploadedFiles/Marineland/Products/AquaticPlantManualQSUG.pdf


----------



## hedge_fund

samamorgan said:


> Glad this helped you out! When it comes to your light needs, you cant carpet HC without at least medium/high light. If i remember correctly, your tank is 24"x13"x17". At that depth and width, i think two 24" stunner strips would give you medium/high light and get you on your way to a good carpet. You'd better be running Co2 though.
> 
> http://www.ecoxotic.com/aquarium-led-lights/stunner-led-strips/stunner-led-strips-12-watt.html Get the 8000k white ones. The initial cost is going to be a bit, so you might be able to just start with one strip for now, and upgrade when you've got the money. $80 for one 24" strip, $16 for a power transformer, and 2 x $7 for two reflectors (not required, but recommended). $96 without reflectors for one, $110 for one with reflectors, $204 for two with reflectors.
> 
> If you take the HC out of the equation you can probably get away with just one, and add another when you go to 55, since it's 48" long instead of 24". These stunner strips are probably your best option for modularity, since you plan on upgrading. Or a couple panorama fixtures, they cover a little more area. Thats a higher cost though.
> 
> A second option would be: go down to IKEA and get a light fixture you wouldnt mind hanging above your tank and are big enough for spotlight bulbs, and get a couple of the WingoLED PAR38 bulbs, they screw into a standard E26/27 bulb socket. I have no idea what these cost, but it's worth looking into, and you could make it match your home decor.


That's actually a really nice set up...i can't seem to find their mounting brackets that they show in the video.


----------



## samamorgan

hedge_fund said:


> That's actually a really nice set up...i can't seem to find their mounting brackets that they show in the video.


Mounting brackets? AFAIK they just stick on with 3M tape, or there are two screw holes to put them inside a wood hood. I did notice some sort of aquarium edge holders though in the video i've never seen before, are those the ones you're talking about?


----------



## hedge_fund

samamorgan said:


> Mounting brackets? AFAIK they just stick on with 3M tape, or there are two screw holes to put them inside a wood hood. I did notice some sort of aquarium edge holders though in the video i've never seen before, are those the ones you're talking about?


Yup, exactly. I don't have anything to mount these to so I don't know how I would even proceed. Hence why the edge holders spiked my interest. Unless there is some other way install these without me being aware of...


----------



## IndyMatt

*Please help me!*

I am a novice to planted aquariums and my plants are not doing well at all. My tank is 36x12x18. I have 3" of EcoComplete substrate. I have been doing regular water changes and using tablet and liquid fertilizers. I am using a 36" TrueLumen 12,000k Diamond white LED light 3" above the water. Is my lighting the problem?


----------



## samamorgan

IndyMatt said:


> I am a novice to planted aquariums and my plants are not doing well at all. My tank is 36x12x18. I have 3" of EcoComplete substrate. I have been doing regular water changes and using tablet and liquid fertilizers. I am using a 36" TrueLumen 12,000k Diamond white LED light 3" above the water. Is my lighting the problem?


Nope. You need to add Co2 and probably go dry ferts, it's hard to get a good balance with liquids.


----------



## TheWonderfulWub

I don't know if anyone has mentioned these lights yet (unlikely, since they're basically brand new), but Sunshine Systems has come out with a new LED plant pendant, a variant of their reef and grow LED lights.

http://www.sunshine-systems.com/AquaUFO-Plant-LED-Aquarium-Light-p/au-936pl-aq.htm

I and one of their reps prototyped it, and I have the original prototypes for these lights hanging over my plants tanks in my store, and they've done an amazing job keeping the plants alive and healthy. Obviously they'd be overkill for smaller tanks, but for people with larger tanks they'd be plenty powerful.

*edit*

I've got four of their reef lights over my reef, and they're giving me amazing growth and color from the corals.


----------



## samamorgan

Beautiful reef! And wow, those lights are really powerful. That's a new one on me.


----------



## styxx

So based on the following data:

TMC GroBeam 1000 Natural Daylight
PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source
195 PAR @ surface (7” through air)
120 PAR @ 3”
80 PAR @ 7”
52 PAR @ 12”
41 PAR @ 18”

If I purchased (2) of these units, over a 36"x18"x18" tank with a 3" substrate, would my PAR double to around 100? Or is PAR not cumulative...I might be thinking of umols? I just want to be certain that I have enough for HC/Glosso, etc. should I so desire...


----------



## Hoppy

If both lights are shining on the same area it doubles the PAR, but if one is at one end of the tank and the other at the other end, each end is lit by only one light, so no doubling. The missing parameter is the size of the area that those lights will cover.


----------



## robbowal

styxx said:


> So based on the following data:
> 
> TMC GroBeam 1000 Natural Daylight
> PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source
> 195 PAR @ surface (7” through air)
> 120 PAR @ 3”
> 80 PAR @ 7”
> 52 PAR @ 12”
> 41 PAR @ 18”
> 
> If I purchased (2) of these units, over a 36"x18"x18" tank with a 3" substrate, would my PAR double to around 100? Or is PAR not cumulative...I might be thinking of umols? I just want to be certain that I have enough for HC/Glosso, etc. should I so desire...


I have two of these over a 75 x 45 x 45 so i think you will be fine. i cant find the chart now but your tank is the upper limit in width for two units side by side (just divide your tank in half and mount one centrally to each half) looks like you will have a par reading between the 12"+18" levels, you can increase this by mounting the lights closer that the 7" above the tank.
I would recommend the multi 8 controller as that way you can run both lights from one socket. it also allows you to expand if you need to in the future. (note each tile uses two channels from the controller) so on the multi 8 you can run four tiles using just one power socket.

Mine currently run at 80% power when ramped up fully and plants start to pearl by the time the lights start to ramp down.

pm me if you want any more info.


----------



## Lludu

Hello, this thread has been very informative! I am starting an ADA Mini-L soon and was curious on buying an LED lamp for it. Do you happen to know the par ratings for these two lamps below. I just want to be able to grow high-light plants in the mini-L without a problem:

ARCHAEA LED LIGHT FIXTURE 45CM (CLAMP-ON)

ARCHAEA LED LIGHT FIXTURE 30CM (CLAMP-ON) ALL WHITE LED


Thanks


----------



## styxx

Hoppy said:


> If both lights are shining on the same area it doubles the PAR, but if one is at one end of the tank and the other at the other end, each end is lit by only one light, so no doubling. The missing parameter is the size of the area that those lights will cover.


Well they'll be situated next to each other, so I'm sure there will be some overlapping coverage but not shining directly on the same spot. Perhaps the better solution would be to lower them closer to the surface of the tank? Robbowal, please see my PM.


----------



## samamorgan

Lowering them a few inches would produce the desired effect. Honestly 100 PAR is an unreasonable number to shoot for though, it will just creat issues. I'd recommend somewhere between 50-70 PAR and you will easily grow anything you please.


----------



## styxx

samamorgan said:


> Lowering them a few inches would produce the desired effect. Honestly 100 PAR is an unreasonable number to shoot for though, it will just creat issues. I'd recommend somewhere between 50-70 PAR and you will easily grow anything you please.


Ok, thanks Samamorgan! Everyone's feedback has been very helpful. :icon_lol: I'm excitedly looking forward to see what kind of results I can produce with LEDs. They're definitely the future of the hobby, IMHO.


----------



## samamorgan

Theyre the future of the entire lighting industry. Until plasma lighting comes out, that is.


----------



## carpalstunna

BillU said:


> I have a quarter cylinder 50 gal tank. I need a new light fixture and want to consider a led. With all of the information i am a little lost as the info is quite extense. the Tank measures 21" deep and is 24" along each flat side. Here is a pic of the tank with a 18" light over it. Could you recommend a couple LED light fixtures - i have pressurized CO2
> 
> thanks in advance.


I have a similar question,
I am about to purchase a very similar tank that is 22 inches deep and is a 54 gallon corner tank. I currently have a standard 55 gallon planted setup (2.5 wpg) and I would like to continue that in the corner tank. I also have a aquabeam500 24" 12watt 6500K led unit in my current tank that I like very much and am considering going all LED in the new tank. It seems the ecoxotic products are a good option for planted LED tanks. 

Does anyone have suggestions for a tank this deep and with the odd configuration. I am not concerned about lighting the back corner as it will be blocked off and not planted. I dont need a high light tank I would consider my needs lows/moderate. 

I am thinking 2-24" ecoxotic stunner fictures 8k in addition to the 24" 6500 I have?Thoughts?


----------



## madness

Anyone with the Ecoxotic Stunner LED strips know if I could run two strips (double tank stand, two tanks) off of one power transformer with a splitter?

So much additional hardware needs to be purchased it can get a bit confusing.

I would need two strips, a splitter, one power supply and the appropriate number of reflectors (if I wanted them) and either one or two dimmers (depending upon if I wanted to dim the strips individually - correct?


----------



## samamorgan

madness said:


> Anyone with the Ecoxotic Stunner LED strips know if I could run two strips (double tank stand, two tanks) off of one power transformer with a splitter?
> 
> So much additional hardware needs to be purchased it can get a bit confusing.
> 
> I would need two strips, a splitter, one power supply and the appropriate number of reflectors (if I wanted them) and either one or two dimmers (depending upon if I wanted to dim the strips individually - correct?


Yes.


----------



## madness

samamorgan said:


> Yes.


Cool.

I think that the parts list above (which should allow me to light two 20H tanks) added up to ~$210. This comes out to $105 each which is more than a 24" Marineland Double Bright but cheaper than just about any other option (and provides a dimming option).

Think that there is any easy way via DIY to create a low-med light dimmable fixture for significantly less than that?

BTW, Innovative Marine now offers the Skkye lights in a more traditional strip light fixture. 

http://www.marinedepot.com/Innovati...-Innovative_Marine-0I10230-FILTFILDTN-vi.html


----------



## samamorgan

Yeah I had seen those. Have yet to see any PAR values for them though so they're not on the list yet.


----------



## madness

samamorgan said:


> Yeah I had seen those. Have yet to see any PAR values for them though so they're not on the list yet.


Seems likely that the LEDs are the same as in the clamp-on lights but until they release PAR data or someone tests them I guess we won't know for sure.


----------



## samamorgan

They look like the same internal unit as the small clamp on light, but a bunch in a row like that would give significantly higher numbers.


----------



## samamorgan

Bahaha the Lightsaber Lightsabering Compendium! I almost want to rename it that now. Happy April Fools everyone!


----------



## Dutchworks

so here is a question, I was just about to click the button to purchase 3 grobeam 1000 ND lights for my 155 (60X24X~24) and ran across this thread. They say that these lights which are 8in x 8in have a spread of 24in x 24in @ 6in above the water and since my tank has 2 cross bars on top that would fit perfectly in between them. I'm wondering now if these lights will be enough for the tank? substrate to the top of the tank is 21in, add 4-5 to that and we are looking at 26". is the Par at that height going to be enough to grow out HC and glosso? 

Great thread!


----------



## samamorgan

I think you should be fine. 40 par is enough to grow anything, and these do 40 par at 18 inch depth 7 inches above the water. Lower it a few inches and you should be right in your target area.


----------



## frrok

Hey guys, Need some advice. What kind of lighting am I looking at if I use one of these 8w Innovative SKKYE leds on a mini-m? according to the PAR graph at 12 inch above the substrate its about 20-50 PAR. but goes up to 80 PAR at 6 inches. this is for a 12 x 9 area. the mini-M is 14 x 8. so it would be a couple of inches cut off in the back... I want to replace my lighting soon but def want to find something more efficient and dont want to spend the $$ on a ADA light. The 8w LED is about $100. Not a bad price and i like the look of it. I want med-high lighting because I will eventually add co2. I think I am ok but I wanted to get a second opinion and make sure I'm looking at the numbers correctly.
thanks for your help.


----------



## samamorgan

frrok said:


> Hey guys, Need some advice. What kind of lighting am I looking at if I use one of these 8w Innovative SKKYE leds on a mini-m? according to the PAR graph at 12 inch above the substrate its about 20-50 PAR. but goes up to 80 PAR at 6 inches. this is for a 12 x 9 area. the mini-M is 14 x 8. so it would be a couple of inches cut off in the back... I want to replace my lighting soon but def want to find something more efficient and dont want to spend the $$ on a ADA light. The 8w LED is about $100. Not a bad price and i like the look of it. I want med-high lighting because I will eventually add co2. I think I am ok but I wanted to get a second opinion and make sure I'm looking at the numbers correctly.
> thanks for your help.


I think you would be right in the medium, possibly medium-high range with one of those. Make sure you get one of the 10k versions though, the 14k is way too blue. Another option would be the Ecoxotic EcoPico arm light. Very similar but the ecoxotic is modular. You can have up to three strips of light in one arm, and you can connect them to the inline dimmer to use as moon lighting as well. One strip is around low light, two is medium, and three is high. I use one of these in my 12x12x12 cube with two strips and it provides medium light with good shimmer using two 10k strips. Plants are very happy with it.

I would assume that the ecopico and the skkye light are both pretty similar in terms of output. I just liked the ecopico a little better because of its modularity. One thing to note is that there isn't any PAR data out for the ecopico yet, my light estimations are simply from personal experience.


----------



## frrok

samamorgan said:


> I think you would be right in the medium, possibly medium-high range with one of those. Make sure you get one of the 10k versions though, the 14k is way too blue. Another option would be the Ecoxotic EcoPico arm light. Very similar but the ecoxotic is modular. You can have up to three strips of light in one arm, and you can connect them to the inline dimmer to use as moon lighting as well. One strip is around low light, two is medium, and three is high. I use one of these in my 12x12x12 cube with two strips and it provides medium light with good shimmer using two 10k strips. Plants are very happy with it.
> 
> I would assume that the ecopico and the skkye light are both pretty similar in terms of output. I just liked the ecopico a little better because of its modularity. One thing to note is that there isn't any PAR data out for the ecopico yet, my light estimations are simply from personal experience.


Sam. Thank you very much for your input. Much appreciated I will take a look at the ecoxotic.


----------



## styxx

Dutchworks said:


> so here is a question, I was just about to click the button to purchase 3 grobeam 1000 ND lights for my 155 (60X24X~24) and ran across this thread. They say that these lights which are 8in x 8in have a spread of 24in x 24in @ 6in above the water and since my tank has 2 cross bars on top that would fit perfectly in between them. I'm wondering now if these lights will be enough for the tank? substrate to the top of the tank is 21in, add 4-5 to that and we are looking at 26". is the Par at that height going to be enough to grow out HC and glosso?
> 
> Great thread!


Hey Dutchworks, I just bought one of these and will soon buy a 2nd one. I was very skeptical at first about LED lighting considering my past 8 years with CFLs and T5HOs. However, after plugging this bad boy in, I'm impressed. They are bright, but not in the same way. More directed light, and I've noticed after the first use, the fixture tends to warm up and brighten after an initial 30 minutes or so. What I find particularly useful is the exact nanometer target for these, the lower electricity usage and of course the aesthetics. Ultimately, I have yet to start my tank up so we'll see, but my tank is 36x18x18 so maybe my results will differ from your own considering the depth, but 3 should definitely do the job!


----------



## Soujirou

*Need Confirmation*

The light on my 30g planted tank is dead and I need a replacement quick. Previously I had been using a single 96W CF in a Lighthouse fixture w/reflector from Catalina. Tanks dimensions are 36" long x 12" wide x 18" deep. I believe I have medium growth plants.

Based on what I've read I believe it would be best to use a 36" - 48" Marineland Double Bright or an Ecoxotic Stunner strip. The former sounds easier. Does this sound correct?


----------



## robotsongs

Thanks for the wonderful database you're curating here. 

Just want to let you know that the link for the *E.Shine Systems 60W CREE Classic* has one more "l" than is necessary at the end, so instead of .html, you have .htmll.

Thanks again.


----------



## frrok

Just thought I'd add the following two nano lights offered by Aquabeam. There is a 15w 10k led and a 12w 65k led. HERE is the link for more info. There is no PAR information but I can email the company to find out if they have any PAR readings for these lights. Might be good option for nano planted tanks. Only thing is that the lights look a little bulky and the mounting brackets are sold separately.  and @ $30...hmmm.


----------



## mcqueenesq

frrok said:


> Just thought I'd add the following two nano lights offered by Aquabeam. There is a 15w 10k led and a 12w 65k led. HERE is the link for more info. There is no PAR information but I can email the company to find out if they have any PAR readings for these lights. Might be good option for nano planted tanks. Only thing is that the lights look a little bulky and the mounting brackets are sold separately.  and @ $30...hmmm.


The mounting brackets and hardware are included with the GroBeam 500 (12w 6500K). I have a couple that I'm currently using for emersed tanks. I'd definitely like to see PAR readings. They're significantly brighter than my Marineland Doublebright, but nowhere near my TruLumen Pro Strips. And the GroBeams look like 2x4's compared to the Pro Strips.


----------



## frrok

Well. I emailed American aquarium products and quickly got a long email
With tons of info and NO PAR readings. I've already read the article. It's quite long and technical. Looks like a decent light but wouldn't work for me as the fixture arm is too long for a mini-m. I guess I could try to hang it but not sure if it would work for the 500/400. Mini. ...


----------



## frrok

mcqueenesq said:


> The mounting brackets and hardware are included with the GroBeam 500 (12w 6500K). I have a couple that I'm currently using for emersed tanks. I'd definitely like to see PAR readings. They're significantly brighter than my Marineland Doublebright, but nowhere near my TruLumen Pro Strips. And the GroBeams look like 2x4's compared to the Pro Strips.


Cool. How's your growth? The bracket I was referring to was for the mini light that's is a single fixture with 4 LEDs. 

I believe we already have PAR readings for the 1000xg and 1000.


----------



## mcqueenesq

frrok said:


> Cool. How's your growth? The bracket I was referring to was for the mini light that's is a single fixture with 4 LEDs.
> 
> I believe we already have PAR readings for the 1000xg and 1000.


Growth has been slow and steady under emersed conditions. The lighting was adequate for UG to fill in and carpet a Mini M but E. belem never spread. It has also been sufficient for several Erio varieties and Lillaeopsis 'Mini" in a 45-F. I'm not sure how the growth would transition once the plants are underwater. 

I've ordered the adjustable aluminum mounting brackets for the TrueLumens, which are for a 60-P. I'm curious to see whether they can be adjusted/bent enough to make the 12" version work on the Mini M. If so, then that's the way to go, both in terms of light and aesthetics. 

I also ordered a couple 16" Finnex Ray II lamps. Their arms are supposed to be adjustable too, so I'll let you know how that turns out.


----------



## frrok

mcqueenesq said:


> Growth has been slow and steady under emersed conditions. The lighting was adequate for UG to fill in and carpet a Mini M but E. belem never spread. It has also been sufficient for several Erio varieties and Lillaeopsis 'Mini" in a 45-F. I'm not sure how the growth would transition once the plants are underwater.
> 
> I've ordered the adjustable aluminum mounting brackets for the TrueLumens, which are for a 60-P. I'm curious to see whether they can be adjusted/bent enough to make the 12" version work on the Mini M. If so, then that's the way to go, both in terms of light and aesthetics.
> 
> I also ordered a couple 16" Finnex Ray II lamps. Their arms are supposed to be adjustable too, so I'll let you know how that turns out.


cool. would love the feedback. im looking for an led upgrade for my mini-m.


----------



## samamorgan

Added another 3 LED fixtures to the list, and updated some of the intro text. The new Finnex fixtures look very promosing.


----------



## Assassynation

Have you seen this one, check out the video

http://veritascontrols.com/index.php?p=1_9_Eclipse-Smart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xmEWOLUBo4&feature=youtu.be


----------



## mcqueenesq

Finnex Ray 2 Unibody Ultra Slim LED:

Single lamp over Mini-M








Recommended dual lamps over Mini-M


----------



## samamorgan

After seeing the par output for those ray 2 fixtures, I would recommend against using more than one fixture per tank. Just asking for trouble. You won't have problems during dry start but once you throw water in there it's an algae battle. Looks like par in the 150+ range.


----------



## mcqueenesq

Yeah, I was just reading your thread on the FugeRay and thinking that I have way too much light here. And the second Ray2 is maybe 6" away from the E. belem. Sounds like I need another Mini-M. 

If it's to be only one Ray 2, then where should it be positioned? Will I end up with massive algae on the rocks if I place it in the middle?


----------



## samamorgan

mcqueenesq said:


> Yeah, I was just reading your thread on the FugeRay and thinking that I have way too much light here. And the second Ray2 is maybe 6" away from the E. belem. Sounds like I need another Mini-M.
> 
> If it's to be only one Ray 2, then where should it be positioned? Will I end up with massive algae on the rocks if I place it in the middle?


Always awesome to have an excuse to buy another ADA rimless!

I would put it in the middle for even coverage. Youll probably get algae on the rocks, but thats a pretty standard thing in aquariums as far as i''m concerned. Pretty easy to scrape it off during water changes with a toothbrush, or my favorite, a short clipped paintbrush (so the bristles are nice and stiff).


----------



## Erica

I was just looking at the source for the par info for the Stunner strips. They measured the par using 4 strips, not one. Just thought the original post should reflect that


----------



## second

Any info on the Aquaray Grobeam 500?


----------



## samamorgan

Erica said:


> I was just looking at the source for the par info for the Stunner strips. They measured the par using 4 strips, not one. Just thought the original post should reflect that


Doesn't mention anywhere in that post that they used 4 strips for the readings. There is a picture of 4 strips together in the dark to illustrate color differences. Why would they use 4 strips to measure PAR for a fixture? That wouldn't be useful at all.

Edit: You are correct, he said it down in the comments section. That's unfortunate, makes the readings there pretty much useless. I always thought those numbers were a bit high considering the product. Will make a note.



second said:


> Any info on the Aquaray Grobeam 500?


I post all information as soon as i get it, and have never heard back about that particular model. If you contact TMC and get some numbers from them, post what they said on this thread pretty please!


----------



## Lowe

samamorgan said:


> *Finnex FugeRay*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 38-42 PAR @ 10" (12" model)
> *Notes:* Amazingly low cost for an LED fixture that puts out medium light for nano tanks. Nice slim design, too. Also comes equipped with blue moonlights.
> 
> *Finnex Ray II*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> Look at the source link for PAR data on this one, very hard to represent with numbers.
> *Notes:* Another low cost option in the LED market.


Thank you for getting everything together. Great post. After getting more data from our manufacturer, I hope the graph attached is easier for you to interpret. I will post the RAY II specs I received in a similar format.


----------



## Lowe

Remaining fixtures:


----------



## samamorgan

Thanks a bunch for that Lowe. That is the easiest to read chart i've ever seen for PAR representation. I am sure I can speak for everyone in the hobby when i say that companies who work to keep their consumers informed are second to none. Unfortunately that isn't a business model i've encountered often when trying to put this compendium together.


----------



## styxx

You know I have to admit, the more I look at the True Lumen PRO LED fixtures the more I like them, strictly in terms of aesthetics. That they work (particularly when used in multiples) makes them even more attractive. I do however think that the need to purchase the power supply separately is unattractive. For many of these strip-type fixtures, I'm waiting to see what Marineland's Planted Aquarium LED fixture is going to be like given it's potent PAR ratings and streamlined, digital controller. BTW, Samamorgan, thanks again for your hard work on this compendium! You should come over to the East side and get a taste of the Palouse some time!


----------



## Lowe

styxx said:


> BTW, Samamorgan, thanks again for your hard work on this compendium!


Ditto that


----------



## samamorgan

In the words of Robin Williams in Bicentennial Man: "One is glad to be of service." Seriously though, I never thought this would get as much appreciation as it has, or grow as big as it has.


----------



## styxx

*Fyi*



mcqueenesq said:


> Growth has been slow and steady under emersed conditions. The lighting was adequate for UG to fill in and carpet a Mini M but E. belem never spread. It has also been sufficient for several Erio varieties and Lillaeopsis 'Mini" in a 45-F. I'm not sure how the growth would transition once the plants are underwater.
> 
> I've ordered the adjustable aluminum mounting brackets for the TrueLumens, which are for a 60-P. I'm curious to see whether they can be adjusted/bent enough to make the 12" version work on the Mini M. If so, then that's the way to go, both in terms of light and aesthetics.
> 
> I also ordered a couple 16" Finnex Ray II lamps. Their arms are supposed to be adjustable too, so I'll let you know how that turns out.


Here's an example found from this forum here, that shows what the GroBeam 1000ND can accomplish and it's light output. Of course you should also notice how high it is positioned above the tank and the footprint of the tank itself, along with the plant types involved, however, if the fixture were lowered, I imagine HC, Glosso, etc. wouldn't be much of a problem until tank dimensions become deeper and larger, thus necessitating more than a single tile:


----------



## somebizarredude

Just adding my readings and findings for an Led emitter I found that produces excellent plant growth. when I find a PAR meter I can borrow I will take some PAR readings. 



http://www.imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/avagomoonstone450ma.jpg/

Avago part# ASMT-MYE2-NKM00


----------



## DrMiller357

Thanks for the thread, very informative!


----------



## wintu

hi guys ,great thread. i'd like to replace my fishneed it 2x24w for led light and looks like that finnex ray 2 24" would good choice , this will be going over 60p tank and i dont mind raising the light a little . what you guys think?


----------



## samamorgan

wintu said:


> hi guys ,great thread. i'd like to replace my fishneed it 2x24w for led light and looks like that finnex ray 2 24" would good choice , this will be going over 60p tank and i dont mind raising the light a little . what you guys think?


Please read the big red disclaimer at the top of this thread.


----------



## wintu

> Originally Posted by wintu View Post
> hi guys ,great thread. i'd like to replace my fishneed it 2x24w for led light and looks like that finnex ray 2 24" would good choice , this will be going over 60p tank and i dont mind raising the light a little . what you guys think?
> Please read the big red disclaimer at the top of this thread.


sorry , my bad. anybody have finnex ray 2 , how hot does it get? also is there way to hang it?


----------



## samamorgan

wintu said:


> sorry , my bad. anybody have finnex ray 2 , how hot does it get? also is there way to hang it?


Same suggestion. If you want help or information about a fixture, ask in the forums, This is a place to post information about fixtures.


----------



## pandacory

Please add radion, and any info you can find about using its individual diming on reds for better freshwater application.

Thanks for the post! I use it as my led bookmark for everything from considering replacement to just drooling! :icon_bigg


----------



## styxx

*Grobeam 1000ND*

Hello all. Just thought that I would post a few additional pics of the fixture I'm using for reference. Samamorgan, I hope you don't mind me jacking your thread by posting these photos here, I just thought that for people considering LED fixtures (as I was not that long ago) pictures really do speak for themselves much more effectively than descriptions do. You will note below in these photos, that I only have one light tile on the metal rail, but a second is waiting to be added. The entire top of this Grobeam 1000ND is extruded metal (aluminum I imagine) and acts as a heatsink. Within that are channels of metal onto which the rail slides and from which the tile hangs to wire spring hangers that screw into the ends for attaching to the ceiling with a ferrule.



As you can see in this photo below, it is quite bright for an LED fixture and this is a raw image fresh from the camera with no white balance adjustments (flash off).



Here is an example of the light intensity 34" from the light fixture, down to my driftwood sitting on my bedroom floor (waiting for it's new 90P home, lol).


----------



## frrok

wow! awesome.. i want these if i ever get a 120p in the way way distant future..lol!


----------



## samamorgan

Great post, and I don't mind at all. That's what this thread is for, getting the information out there.


----------



## styxx

samamorgan said:


> Great post, and I don't mind at all. That's what this thread is for, getting the information out there.


 Ah ok, thanks my fellow Washingtonian!! :icon_mrgr


----------



## daworldisblack

I wonder if anyone has PAR stats for the Eheim 7W PowerLeds? Been looking for a while but nadda so far. Thanks!


----------



## OVT

Great information. TY for the time and effort involved.

Any CRI data?
If a red tiger lotus looks blue under a specific LED fixture, I might have an issue regardless of everything else


----------



## CalmSeasQuest

Great thread - Thanks for all the work!

I just ordered the 36" TrueLumen Pro 8,000K for use over a 12 long. I expect the actual 8,000K PAR numbers to be slightly higher than reported as the tests conducted by AquaNerd used the marine version and the MQ-200 underestimates PAR when measuring very blue light by up to ~20%. I'll share PAR data once set up if interested.


----------



## NWA-Planted

Very very very awesome thread thank you for putting this all together!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


----------



## CalmSeasQuest

PAR results for TrueLumenPro 8,000K

PAR measurements taken with an Apogee MQ-200.










These PAR measurements were taken in "open air". Based on my experience, they will differ little when measured with water in the tank. The fact that these lights use surface mounted emitters without any optics _might_ provide different results through water - I'll remeasure once the tank is wet.

More photos in my 12G Long build thread.


----------



## tank0211

Lowe said:


> Remaining fixtures:


I'm considering the 16" fixture for a 24" long tank & would like to know if these front to back PAR measurements can also be applied off of each lengthwise end of the light as well?


----------



## Hoppy

tank0211 said:


> I'm considering the 16" fixture for a 24" long tank & would like to know if these front to back PAR measurements can also be applied off of each lengthwise end of the light as well?


No, those numbers won't apply off each end. The reason is that off to the side there are several LEDs contributing light to any spot, but off the end, the number quickly becomes only one that contributes light. And, that is because LEDs far from the spot where you are measuring PAR have most of their light reflected off the water instead of refracted down into the water. This is also why the ends of the tank, even with a full length LED light, don't have as high a PAR as the center of the tank.

It would be nice to have the charts for lengthwise distances too. I'm sure they are available.


----------



## tank0211

Hoppy said:


> No, those numbers won't apply off each end. The reason is that off to the side there are several LEDs contributing light to any spot, but off the end, the number quickly becomes only one that contributes light. And, that is because LEDs far from the spot where you are measuring PAR have most of their light reflected off the water instead of refracted down into the water. This is also why the ends of the tank, even with a full length LED light, don't have as high a PAR as the center of the tank.
> 
> It would be nice to have the charts for lengthwise distances too. I'm sure they are available.


Thanks for the reply Hoppy. That's pretty much what I suspected though being that there are only 2 LEDS on the short lengthwise ends to contribute where as there are 44 on long sides of the 16". 

I'm very interested in knowing these numbers. Maybe Lowe could get them for us? :help:


----------



## samamorgan

Just a quick update to let you all know that I probably won't update this for a while. Things in life are hectic right now and I simply don't have the time to pursue the research and recreational activities that I usually do. I've been pretty absent from these forums for the last month and this is going to continue for the forseeable future.


----------



## Hoppy

samamorgan said:


> Just a quick update to let you all know that I probably won't update this for a while. Things in life are hectic right now and I simply don't have the time to pursue the research and recreational activities that I usually do. I've been pretty absent from these forums for the last month and this is going to continue for the forseeable future.


I'm really sorry to hear this. :icon_cry: I'm sure this is up to date enough to go without a lot of revisions for several months. Good luck settling things down.


----------



## CalmSeasQuest

Hoppy said:


> I'm really sorry to hear this. :icon_cry: I'm sure this is up to date enough to go without a lot of revisions for several months. Good luck settling things down.


+1 Thank you for all your work on this.


----------



## madness

The great thing about the internet is that if you get the ball rolling on a project then often times one or more people can carry the project once you are done with it. Often times it just takes that person to do the initial work and make it seem less intimidating and then other don't feel so afraid to get involved.


----------



## JoeD323

samamorgan said:


> *Not all spectrums are created equal!*
> _Analyzing photosynthetically active radiation (PUR)_
> 
> *Please keep in mind that the following is purely informational, and should be taken very lightly if at all when considering an LED fixture purchase!*
> 
> One of the reasons LEDs can be so much more efficient than T5, compact flourescent, and even metal halide is spectrum output. The chlorophyll pigment is green in color, which means that it reflects the green spectrum of light to our eyes so we see it as green. This means that it absorbs all other spectrums of visible light. Check out this graph:
> View attachment 40237
> 
> As you can see, plants absorb visible light very well between ~400-500nm and ~650-700nm. The absorbtion rate drops off significantly in the green and yellow spectrums. Here are some LED emmiter comparisons in terms of specrum. Big thanks to redfishsc for doing the footwork on this. Notice that the warm white LEDs put out significantly lower blue spectrum spikes, but much higher red-yellow spectrum spikes. Essentially this tells us that cool white LEDs are almost always better for plant growth.
> 
> LEDs put out very specific spectrums of light, which are defined by the manufacturer. LED manufacturers can fine tune emmiters to put out exactly the spectrum specified by the client. Since PAR meters measure light between 400-700nm, an LED array putting out less par than a broad spectrum flourescent fixture may actually be putting out more photosynthetically usable radiation (PUR).
> 
> *Why is this concept important?*
> Say two LED emmiters read around 100 PAR on a meter. The first LED spikes highest in the 550nm range. The second LED spikes highest in the 450nm range. So while both emmiters have the same PAR value, emmiter two would actually grow plants very well because it is in a range that can be absorbed by the plant, while emmiter one would probably keep plants limping along, if they could even survive.


So I get the importance of PAR ratings vs depth and all that, but I am still a bit confused.

It is my understanding that plants (and even corals) are best able to utilize yellow light (in the 65-10K area) yet corals show best color in the actinic 14-20K range and that's why those are the ranges most commonly used for corals. Right? And the whole watts per gallon thing gets thrown out the window when discussing LEDs, anyway. Right?

So my question is this: Regardless of PAR ratings (which seem to be ridiculously high in most cases because the lights are meant for reefs), aren't the vast majority of LED fixtures on the market relatively useless to the planted tank keeper because of the spectrum they put out? In other words, before taking PAR into consideration, shouldn't we be first looking at spectrum?

Sorry if we already went over this or if I am confusing the subject lol I am having trouble wrapping my head around it. 

Joe


----------



## Hoppy

Joe, we have lots of people successfully using LEDs to grow plants, so they can't be said to be ineffective. Most of us use "cool white", possibly with some "warm white" or "neutral white" mixed in. Those aren't really specifications, just general descriptive names. If you look at the spectra for a few cool white LEDs, for example, you find that they look very similar to each other. So, it is pretty safe to say that cool white LEDs are good plant lights.

The whole point of using PAR to determine how effective a given light is for plants is that the PAR is the light intensity in the band of light that plants respond to. So, PAR is the measurement of how much light, you get, in the spectral range that plants can utilize. It is also a mistake to assume that because chlorophyl absorbs blue and red light well, means that plants don't absorb other colors. They do, but they also reflect more of the green and yellow light striking them then they do the red and blue light. If you were to try to grow plants with just yellow and green light, you could do it. And, if you were to use the same PAR intensity for the yellow and green light as for blue and red light I suspect the plant growth would be comparable. I have seen no reports of tests to try to determine if that is true, for typical aquatic plants, so all we can do is guess.


----------



## JoeD323

Thanks for clearing that up Hoppy. I think I get it now. It all kinda makes me feel a lot less knowledgeable than I did yesterday lol

I work at an aquarium shop, and we cater to everything from goldfish and betta bowls to high tech planted and reef set-ups. I just got this overwhelming guilty feeling for some of the advise I've given people coming to me for help. Its funny cause I'm supposed to be one of the plant guys at the store yet now I feel like I've been steering people in the wrong direction when it comes to LEDs and t5 replacement lamps/fixtures. 

I guess I've been stuck in the old ways when I thought I was up on the new teaching and logic on the subject. So, just so I am clear on all this...

PAR ratings refer directly to available light, regardless of spectrum, but are all of these bands of light usable (PUR)?. And plants can in fact utilize the white light put out by 10K bulbs as well as they do the 65-67K ones? Also, since plants absorb the blue and red spectral range, is it safe to say that actinic and 50/50 lamps are more useful in planted applications than I was originally taught? 

I also have a question relating to the above breakdown of the TrueLumen fixture's PAR ratings. That fixture only puts out 8000K light, correct? Correct me if I am wrong, but is a single spectrum of light (in this case 8000K) sufficient for plants to thrive? I was under the impression that it was better to have several different spectra of light available to the plants for photosynthesis. For example, I am currently running both 6700K and 1000K t5 lamps over my plants for this reason. So what I am asking is: Are these fixtures marketed at a specific spectrum worth the buy? I mean, based on everything we've said so far, it seems that the reason LEDs are so great is the wide range of wavelengths they put out, right? So when I see these TrueLumens, which ONLY put out 8000K, it seems to me that this fixture alone would not be enough to promote the growth we have come to expect from our lighting. 

Sorry for all of the questions, I ask them as much for myself as I do for the customers I will be helping in the future...I take pride in giving the best advise in my area of expertise lol


Joe


----------



## samamorgan

Just checking in, and replying to your post Joe. Kelvin rating has nothing to do with spectrum. Spectrum generally determines the kelvin rating, but they are not related systems of measurement. Spectrum refers to the intensity of light at certain wavelengths. Wavelengths are the scientific measurement of light waves in nanometers(nm) at the crest of each wave of light, since light travels in waves of harmonic motion like other forms of energy like sound and electromagnetic radiation. So basically spectrum is the measurement of light intensity.

Now Kelvin or color temperature is the measurement of visible light emitted by a black body radiator as far as I understand. I don't fully understand the concept of kelvin, but I equate it more to light visible to the eye. Essentially color temperature is a measurement of visible color, as compared to spectrum which is a measurement of light intensity in the entire electromagnetic spectrum.

Now, another problem with trying to use kelvin as a base for usable radiation: the rating varies widely. Two bulbs with a completely different spectrum that emit completely different PAR ratings can have exactly the same color temperature. One can be just awful for plants and the other could be very good. This is also more readily apparent if you look at graphical representation of the kelvin color temperature scale. 10,000k can be pink, white, blue, blue-green, or any color inbetween. It's a fairly inaccurate way to try and measure visible light, and i actually prefer to use chromacity to try and accurately describe things, though it's a bit harder to use universally because color temperature is already prevalent on the consumer side of the lighting industry.

A good example of the difference here: The x-ray spectrum, which we utilize for the common x-ray imaging in hospitals, is far outside of the visible spectrum. You couldn't rate something like this in terms of kelvin because the spectrum emits no visible light. This is the same with the commonly known infrared and ultraviolet light spectrums. The others that are less though of as being light are gamma rays, radio waves, and microwaves. There are some pretty crazy concepts out there, gotta love college physics and chemistry. Time to go take some more derivatives that I will never use when programming!


----------



## samamorgan

Oh and a little tidbit for reference. I had mild success growing low light plants under completely blue actinic LEDs designed for corals. This leads me to believe that actinic light would work just fine for plants if it met the PAR right requirements of the plant in question.

Oh and about these posts, I am still AWOL and busy with life, just got some free time during my break between quarters. If you have any questions about these two posts hopefully someone will clarify (bless you hoppy) because I probably won't be around to do so. Happy growing!


----------



## JoeD323

Thank you so much. For the first time, I think I actually have a comprehensive understanding of the values and stuff that I am looking at when I purchase or research lamps and fixtures. I really appreciate your simple explanations and examples, but I still have one question left unanswered, this being more application oriented than technical:

Given that the fixture/lamps are putting out desirable PAR ratings at various tank levels, are the color temperatures offered by LED fixtures (designed for reef applications) desirable for planted applications? For example, many LED fixtures are classified by color temp (which I now understand is not the whole story) but it is still the largest chunk of information I have on the lamp at my disposal. So, can I use 10K mixed with actinic LEDs over a planted tank with equal growth and health to what I would see out of a tank that uses comparable t5s of a plant specific color temperature?

Sorry if I made that confusing lol you guys must hate my questions.

Joe


----------



## apuhl20

Does anyone have any info on the 36" EVO LED 6500K by Green Element??


----------



## JoeD323

What about the Innovative Marine Utility light? It comes in actinic, 10KK and 65KK. Theres a good chance two or three of these will be my next lighting purchase.

It says 120 lumens per watt on the website but I feel like thats not enough info...They don't say anything about its spread or coverage at x inches over the substrate. Just from fooling with them at the store I'd say you'd need one per 15". Theyre designed for refugium use.


Joe


----------



## MadDiscus

it really help me a lot.

Great info and thank you for sharing


----------



## dicuslover777

does anybody have any par ratings on the finnex ray 2 48"?


----------



## sayurasem

dicuslover777 said:


> does anybody have any par ratings on the finnex ray 2 48"?


+1

And 36" version too also. After looking several threads I would make a wild guess Ray II 36" DS would be 205 PAR @ 6"??

It's for my 12 gallon and it's height is only 9"... And my substrate is 1.5" thick :icon_eek:


----------



## Lowe

sayurasem said:


> +1
> 
> And 36" version too also. After looking several threads I would make a wild guess Ray II 36" DS would be 205 PAR @ 6"??
> 
> It's for my 12 gallon and it's height is only 9"... And my substrate is 1.5" thick :icon_eek:


They just sent me that data. I'm putting in graph form now. And yes, for shallow tanks it's looking like too much light :icon_lol:


----------



## sayurasem

Lowe said:


> They just sent me that data. I'm putting in graph form now. And yes, for shallow tanks it's looking like too much light :icon_lol:


I hate my life.


----------



## Hoppy

This is a graph of data from the first post here. It can be useful for quickly locating LED lights that might work with your tank. Once you do that, you still need to do further research to see if the other specifications make that light suitable for you.


----------



## frrok

Dude! You are the man!!


----------



## frrok

Just an FYI. I got this info from another forum(ape). The Aquaray mini-400 65k was measured @14 inches in a dry tank with a PAR reading at the substrate of 55. Not sure if this helps or not but I couldn't get any info from the company or one of the sites that sells this light.


----------



## Hoppy

frrok said:


> Just an FYI. I got this info from another forum(ape). The Aquaray mini-400 65k was measured @14 inches in a dry tank with a PAR reading at the substrate of 55. Not sure if this helps or not but I couldn't get any info from the company or one of the sites that sells this light.


Thank you I updated my chart to show that.


----------



## sayurasem

I don't know if anyone ask this before.... 80-120 par are high light. Is there a limit of par for aquatic plants?


----------



## jcgd

I had 100+umol at the substrate and can't get my co2 high enough to prevent stunting in some plants. That's with a sump and overflow, so lots of o2.

Now, that isn't the light saturation point. I believe that is 600umol or more, but dot quote me. In my specific setup, with my livestock, after 130umol a the substrate or so I can't add any more co2 due to negative effects on the fish. I only double my par from the bottom to top because my light is raised so high. I'm not sure how others are running such high light tanks.


----------



## sayurasem

Lowe said:


> They just sent me that data. I'm putting in graph form now. And yes, for shallow tanks it's looking like too much light :icon_lol:


any official par on the 36" ray2?


----------



## SoapDoctor

sayurasem said:


> any official par on the 36" ray2?



http://i46.tinypic.com/14wsrcx.jpg


----------



## dafil

Does anyone have any PAR info on something like this http://www.ledtek.com.cn/led-Spotlights/led-gu10-bulb-4x1w.htm


----------



## rvel

*Need advice to make final decision please*

Found my answer. Thanks for making all this information available.


----------



## rvel

*My PAR measurements for a Marineland 18" - 24" Double Bright LED*

Just measured my Marineland 18" to 24" Double Bright with a PAR meter and got seriously low readings. 

For "reference":

The tank is 10G. 20"L x 10"W x 12"H
The substrate is 3" @ highest point and 1" @ lowest sloping diagonally.
Glass lid (required for this fixture) on top and it has a brown opaque hinge at the center...
The fixture is centered on top and mounted on the tank's edge (as close to the lid as the mounting legs will allow it)
Water level up to the rim.
Apogee PAR meter QMSS-ELEC 

I am not an expert in measuring PAR and what I did is place the sensor in the tank and kept it upright. Also the PAR meter is not mine so I can't say when was it last calibrated, etc.

On the corners: 005-008
front and back sides: 012-015
left and right sides: 008-011
Center lengthwise: 025-034 

Like I said before, these measurements may be off since I am not an expert and can't vouch for the instrument's calibration but my plants do show signs of inadequate PAR.


----------



## jcgd

The electric meter probably isn't accurate with the LEDs, so the numbers could be low. They seem about right to me though.


----------



## Hoppy

Does that brown hinge get in the way of the light? A useful measurement would be with no glass cover on the tank to compare with what you got.


----------



## rvel

The hinge does block the blue LEDs in the center...

Without glass lid I am getting about the same measurements except directly underneath the fixture

On the corners: 005 - 011 
Front and Back sides: 012 - 015
Left and right sides: 010 - 012
Center lengthwise: 020 - 054

The Center lengthwise fluctuated a lot and within very short distances. It would be over 50 right under the center of the fixture and then a little bit to the right or left of that it would be somewhere in the 20s. Then 30s or 40s as I moved the sensor underneath the group of LEDs on either side and then 10s on the tank's edge... for example [10-34-20-54-24-38-14].


----------



## Hoppy

That fluctuation means you get "spotlighting" with that fixture at that distance. Either the LEDs have optics or they are spaced too far apart. With any LED light there will be a fluctuation in intensity as you move from directly under one LED to directly under the next one, but that fluctuation shouldn't be that extreme, in my opinion.


----------



## S&KGray

rvel, check out this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134094
the op had 2 double brights on top of his 12g and ended up using just one around 8" above the top of the tank.

raising yours up would at least help to reduce the fluctuation of PAR across the substrate


----------



## rvel

Thanks guys for your replies. It is my understanding that the longer ones like the 36" used in the thread link S&KGray posted are better that the short one. In my case, I decided that this fixture doesn't work for me. It requires a lid because it is not resistant to water at all and that makes summer temperatures hard to deal with. Also I wanted a more uniform spread at the substrate but being so close to the top this will not happen and by rising it higher I lose PAR which is already very low in some areas of the tank... And most important, my plants don't like it.


----------



## bluestems

any par info on these two:

Archaea SLIM-PRO Aquatic Plant LED fixture

and the new Aquaksy

Thanks for a very informative thread!


----------



## accordztech

The finnex ray II, I dont see any par values for a 36'' fixture. I was trying to estimate it but I cant lol. Can anyone help me?

Finnex Ray II
PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source
16" fixture: 130 PAR @ 6", 49 PAR @ 12", 27 PAR @ 18"
18" fixture: 153 PAR @ 6", 72 PAR @ 12", 37 PAR @ 18"
24" fixture: 179 PAR @ 6", 87 PAR @ 12", 55 PAR @ 18"
Notes: Great value priced fixture for various sized tanks. It's a good idea to check out the source link on this one, gives offset PAR values so coverage can be approximated. One of the easiest to read PAR charts i've seen. Big thanks to Lowe for the data on these.


----------



## plantChap

mcqueenesq said:


> The mounting brackets and hardware are included with the GroBeam 500 (12w 6500K). I have a couple that I'm currently using for emersed tanks. I'd definitely like to see PAR readings. They're significantly brighter than my Marineland Doublebright, but nowhere near my TruLumen Pro Strips. And the GroBeams look like 2x4's compared to the Pro Strips.


Hi mcqueenesq,

Are you saying that 2 grobeam 500's are not as bright as one truelumen pro? (to your eyes)


----------



## artega

samamorgan said:


> _PAR Values_(Source) -_ Thanks Gnomecatcher for the suggestion!_
> Values between 10-30 are considered low light.
> Values between 30-80 are considered medium light.
> Values between 80-120 are considered high light.
> _Keep in mind that these values are what is currently accepted by the community as accurate, and aren't set in stone._
> ​ *Finnex FugeRay*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 10" fixture: 49 PAR @ 6", 18 PAR @ 12", 9 PAR @ 18"
> 12" fixture: 62 PAR @ 6", 25 PAR @ 12", 13 PAR @ 18"
> *Notes:* Amazingly low cost for an LED fixture that puts out medium light for nano tanks. Nice slim design, too. It's a good idea to check out the source link on this one, gives offset PAR values so coverage can be approximated. One of the easiest to read PAR charts i've seen. Also comes equipped with blue moonlights. Big thanks to Lowe for the data on these.
> 
> *Finnex Ray II*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 16" fixture: 130 PAR @ 6", 49 PAR @ 12", 27 PAR @ 18"
> 18" fixture: 153 PAR @ 6", 72 PAR @ 12", 37 PAR @ 18"
> 24" fixture: 179 PAR @ 6", 87 PAR @ 12", 55 PAR @ 18"
> *Notes:* Great value priced fixture for various sized tanks. It's a good idea to check out the source link on this one, gives offset PAR values so coverage can be approximated. One of the easiest to read PAR charts i've seen. Big thanks to Lowe for the data on these.


The source link for these two fixtures links right back to this thread. I would like to see the source link for these fixtures.


----------



## Hoppy

The source is http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=145


----------



## artega

Hoppy said:


> The source is http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=145


Thanks Hoppy, I lol'd when I clicked on the source link in the op. Said to myself oops.


----------



## bigstick120

CalmSeasQuest said:


> PAR results for TrueLumenPro 8,000K
> 
> PAR measurements taken with an Apogee MQ-200.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These PAR measurements were taken in "open air". Based on my experience, they will differ little when measured with water in the tank. The fact that these lights use surface mounted emitters without any optics _might_ provide different results through water - I'll remeasure once the tank is wet.
> 
> More photos in my 12G Long build thread.


Any update with water or planted? Im looking at getting one of these for the same tank. Please let us know.


----------



## ccbeauch

Has anyone ever tested the par of a compact fluorescent light bulb like in a room light? I was thinking about changing over to those to possibly save some mula on the electric bill but keep all my plants alive. Currently have 160 watts... IK watts, that was what I was told I needed when I started my tank 6 weeks ago, over my 72 bow (4xT12 6500k). I saw something on youtube about this kid who used Compact Fluorescent light bulbs over his tank and had some good results over the two weeks. Is that a bad idea to change over and does the watts mater on those at all for PAR readings?


----------



## Squawkbert

Awesome thread. Subscribed, can't see why this is not a sticky.
I'll be back regularly *because of this thread*.


----------



## Squawkbert

Anyone have any data on Marineland Hidden LEDs yet?


----------



## Clint

Trying to gather information on the new Aqueon modular LEDs seems to be a pain as well.


----------



## Squawkbert

I saw some of those in a store - there's a Lumens spec on the box, which contains one "bulb" & the fixture. I think the 24" version is rated at 400 lumens, so if you (generously) triple that, by adding a couple more "bulbs" at ~$27 ea., you'd be right there with the Marineland single brights as far as growing plants would be concerned (not enough light).


----------



## minicrazy592

Buildmyled.com 12" Custom Spectrum Fixture: 

Right below the fixture under water: 530 PAR
3" below: 390
6" below: 200
12" below: 140
16" below: 90


----------



## Hoppy

Squawkbert said:


> Awesome thread. Subscribed, can't see why this is not a sticky.
> I'll be back regularly *because of this thread*.


It is a "sticky", but the format for listing stickies is different from what it used to be:


----------



## mizzoutank

started to explore LED's and read every page of this thread.lol

has anyone experimented/got values for the cheaper Beamworks LED? I think they are made by odyessa? They have an enticing price tag, but cannot find info on their par/spread.


----------



## spidernids

Have you looked at the finnex ray 2?


----------



## mizzoutank

If that question is posed at me...then yes! I have explored those fixtures. They are looking to be the top choice.

I'm struggling on plant growth with my t5ho and the depth of the 40b poses a challenge.

i just want my plants to grow! lol


----------



## spidernids

mizzoutank said:


> If that question is posed at me...then yes! I have explored those fixtures. They are looking to be the top choice.
> 
> I'm struggling on plant growth with my t5ho and the depth of the 40b poses a challenge.
> 
> i just want my plants to grow! lol


Yes. Forgot to quote


----------



## junglefowl

I have learned a lot from this thread...thanks


----------



## Squawkbert

mizzoutank said:


> ...has anyone experimented/got values for the cheaper Beamworks LED? I think they are made by odyessa? They have an enticing price tag, but cannot find info on their par/spread.


I looked around for more info on these too. I did not find any PAR data, but based on what I did find (I can't remember if it was lumen or lux values), they're somewhere between Marineland single and double bright fixtures. I think they were quite a bit closer to the single version... not much to hope for if you're growing plants.

In other news, I'll be deploying Finnex Ray 2 units over my 46g bow & 20T right after Christmas!


----------



## STS_1OO

Is it possible to get PAR data on stock Fluval LED fixtures?

More specifically, I'm looking for PAR data on the Fluval Spec V LED fixture.

http://usa.hagen.com/Aquatic/Aquariums/Starter-Kits-Desktop/10516

May be a shot in the dark...but a shot nonetheless lol.

Thanks!


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi samamorgan,

Here is some information on the 20 watt AH Supply LED lamp; it is also available in 15 watt and 26 watt configurations.



> The L.E.D. lamp arrays run on standard 110/120 VAC and do not require a driver/ballast. After I plugged the L.E.D. array into the 2G11 socket and inserted the LED lamp array into the holders/stand-offs it was ready to go!
> 
> I decided to run it through its paces and it performed excellently. The L.E.D.s all lit simultaneously and with equal brightness. I put it on my 20 gallon tank and it looked identical in spectrum to the 6700K PC bulb I was using which would make sense since the LED lamp is rated 6400K. GSAS has a PAR meter for our members so I immediately called and reserved the next open slot so I could run some PAR tests; here are the results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that the PAR readings shown were taken in ‘open air’ and would likely be higher due to internal reflection if I had taken them in an aquarium filled with water. I will try to take readings in one of my aquariums in the future. How do these PAR readings compare to a AH Supply Power Compact kit for example? I have a 2X36 watt AH Supply PC kit (72 watts total) on my 30 gallon. At the substrate level (13”) the PAR for that fixture is about 95 so these 20 watt LED lamp arrays put out about 80% of the light intensity of my PC's while only consuming about 28% of the wattage.
> 
> AH Supply offers the LED lamp arrays in three sizes. There is a 15 watt that is 17” long which would be great for a 10 gallon or two end to end they cover the length of a 36” long tank. There are two LED lamp offerings that are 22” long; the 20 watt which I have just tested and a more powerful 26 watt unit.


----------



## micheljq

Thanks for the information about AH supply's leds!


----------



## Squawkbert

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Here is some information on the 20 watt AH Supply LED lamp; it is also available in 15 watt and 26 watt configurations.


Could you provide a link for those of us who have looked but can find only their PC stuff??

Thanks!


----------



## micheljq

There, you have to click on "easy ordering" link to see "leds" menu.

http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=5


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Squawkbert said:


> Could you provide a link for those of us who have looked but can find only their PC stuff??
> 
> Thanks!


Hi Squawkbert;

Here is a link to the area of the website with the ordering information.

Here is a link to the thread I started on covering my experience and the test results of the AHS LED lamp arrays.


----------



## Squawkbert

I have my 18" and 36" Ray-2 fixtures installed.

I absolutely love the 18" unit. It is perfect for my 20T and looks great.

The 36" one was DOA (it is basically a pair of the 18" boards in a 36" housing - only one half would light up). The vendor (AquaVibrant) worked with me on getting me a replacement in time for Christmas and they even refunded my postage for returning the dead unit to them, so they get high marks for customer service. 

The 36" unit also works well, but is not a significant improvement (visually - plants have yet to state a preference) over the 96W PC it replaced. I guess I was expecting it to be a little brighter than the 96W, but as long as plants grow, I will be happy saving $ on my electric bill & lightbulbs.


----------



## defender.TX

*Data Graph*

While searching for a good light for the high tech 10 gallon ADA Tank I'm planning for this summer, I cam across this post. I wanted to visualize the data in the post, so I threw the data points into Excel and whipped up a quick graph. The graph gradient is outlined in the original post: low light, medium light, high light. It doesn't contain all the lights listed in the post as a lot of them are designed for marine use and have PAR values so high it skewed the graph. I'm posting it in case anyone else finds it useful.










I'm also very curious to see PAR ratings for the Marineland Aquatic Plant Lighting System [marineland.com]. It's similar to the Marineland Reef Capable light but at a freshwater temperature. Has anyone seen data for this light?


----------



## frrok

Looks like TMC has another Grobeam that's not on this list. 
TMC GroBeam 1500 Ultima Tile --65K
http://www.aquariumonline.co.uk/aqu...tiles/tmc_grobeam_1500_ultima_tile_P2999.html

Anyone know the PAR values on these?


----------



## mixermandan

*Aqueon 30" modular LED*

I emailed Aqueon for some information on this light and got a par chart for all the sizes with tank sizes, distances measured, average par values, max par values, number of bulbs, etc... would anyone be interested in that? I recently aquired one of these lights and have been experimenting with it on my tank since it is an aqueon tank it fit perfectly unlike some of the other LED arrays.


----------



## Hoppy

mixermandan said:


> I emailed Aqueon for some information on this light and got a par chart for all the sizes with tank sizes, distances measured, average par values, max par values, number of bulbs, etc... would anyone be interested in that? I recently aquired one of these lights and have been experimenting with it on my tank since it is an aqueon tank it fit perfectly unlike some of the other LED arrays.


I would be very interested in the chart.


----------



## mixermandan

*Aqueon LED Fixtures*

*Recieved this table from Aqueon about their fixtures. *​ 
*LIGHT COMPARISON TABLE*​ 
*"Growth Intensity"*​ 
*Product Sold As?*
*Tank Size*
*Area Measured (@ 12")*
*Wattage Draw (@120V)*
*Avg PAR*
*Max PAR*
*Avg. PAR % Diff.*​ 

*10 Gallon (10" x 20")*​ 
*AQ Modular LED 20'' (1 tubes)*
Open
20''
10'' X 20''
2
4.5
8
-60%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 20'' (2 tubes)*
Open
20''
10'' X 20''
5
9.5
17
-16%​ 
*AQ 20'' T8 Fluor. (18'' Bulb)*
Kit/Open
20''
10'' X 20"
14
11.3
16
0%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 20'' (3 tubes)*
Open
20''
10'' X 20''
7
14.6
26
29%​ 
*20 Gallon (12" x 24")*​ 
*AQ Modular LED 24'' (1 tubes)*
Open
24''
12'' X 24''
3
6.0
11
-38%​ 
*AQ 24'' T8 Fluor. (18'' Bulb)*
Kit/Open
24''
12'' X 24''
14
9.7
16
0%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 24'' (2 tubes)*
Open
24''
12'' X 24''
6
12.7
22
31%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 24'' (3 tubes)*
Open
24''
12'' X 24''
9
19.6
33
102%​ 
*29 Gallon (12" x 30")*​ 
*AQ Modular LED 30'' (1 tubes)*
Open
30''
12'' X 30''
4
6.8
11 
-54%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 30'' (2 tubes)*
Open
30''
12'' X 30''
8
13.7
23
-7%​ 
*AQ 30'' T8 Fluor. (24'' Bulb)*
Kit/Open
30''
12'' X 30''
15
14.8
25
0%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 30'' (3 tubes)*
Open
30''
12'' X 30''
12
21.6
35
46%​ 
*30/45 Gallon (12" x 36")*​ 
*AQ Modular LED 36'' (1 tubes)*
Open
36''
12'' X 36''
5
7.5
13
-46%​ 
*AQ 36'' T8 Fluor. (24'' Bulb)*
Open
36''
12'' X 36''
15
13.9
25
0%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 36'' (2 tubes)*
Open
36''
12'' X 36''
10
15.8
27
14%​ 
AQ 36'' T8 Fluor. (36'' Bulb)
Open
36'' 
12'' X 36''
24 
23.4 
39 
68%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 36'' (3 tubes)*
Open 
36''
12'' X 36''
15
24.4
41
76%​ 
*55 Gallon (13" x 48")*​ 
*AQ Modular LED 48'' (1 tubes)*
Open
48''
13'' X 48''
7
8.3
13
-20%​ 
AQ 55 Kit (2 X 24'' T8 Hoods)
Kit
48''
13'' X 48''
28
10.4 
16
0%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 48'' (2 tubes)*
Open
48''
13'' X 48''
14
17.1
27 
64%​ 
*AQ Modular LED 48'' (3 tubes)*
Open
48''
13'' X 48"
21
26.5
41
155%​


----------



## In.a.Box

If only I can bring the company par meter home I can do some real par test reading.
I'll have to ask and hope for the best ^^


----------



## David P.

Hi,

Maxspect has put out a repartition grid for PAR on their R420r model, they have the A8000 (8000k) for planted tank... don't know if it's valuable information for that sticky.

http://www.maxspect.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20&Itemid=21

GREAT POST!!! tons of info here!!!!


----------



## blink

Has anyone seen the new Fluval planted tank LEDs?
They look nice in pics but haven't arrived locally yet.


----------



## Yellow-Cichlid

mixermandan said:


> *Recieved this table from Aqueon about their fixtures. *​
> *LIGHT COMPARISON TABLE*​
> *"Growth Intensity"*​
> *Product Sold As?*
> *Tank Size*
> *Area Measured (@ 12")*
> *Wattage Draw (@120V)*
> *Avg PAR*
> *Max PAR*
> *Avg. PAR % Diff.*​
> 
> *10 Gallon (10" x 20")*​
> *AQ Modular LED 20'' (1 tubes)*
> Open
> 20''
> 10'' X 20''
> 2
> 4.5
> 8
> -60%​
> *AQ Modular LED 20'' (2 tubes)*
> Open
> 20''
> 10'' X 20''
> 5
> 9.5
> 17
> -16%​
> *AQ 20'' T8 Fluor. (18'' Bulb)*
> Kit/Open
> 20''
> 10'' X 20"
> 14
> 11.3
> 16
> 0%​
> *AQ Modular LED 20'' (3 tubes)*
> Open
> 20''
> 10'' X 20''
> 7
> 14.6
> 26
> 29%​
> *20 Gallon (12" x 24")*​
> *AQ Modular LED 24'' (1 tubes)*
> Open
> 24''
> 12'' X 24''
> 3
> 6.0
> 11
> -38%​
> *AQ 24'' T8 Fluor. (18'' Bulb)*
> Kit/Open
> 24''
> 12'' X 24''
> 14
> 9.7
> 16
> 0%​
> *AQ Modular LED 24'' (2 tubes)*
> Open
> 24''
> 12'' X 24''
> 6
> 12.7
> 22
> 31%​
> *AQ Modular LED 24'' (3 tubes)*
> Open
> 24''
> 12'' X 24''
> 9
> 19.6
> 33
> 102%​
> *29 Gallon (12" x 30")*​
> *AQ Modular LED 30'' (1 tubes)*
> Open
> 30''
> 12'' X 30''
> 4
> 6.8
> 11
> -54%​
> *AQ Modular LED 30'' (2 tubes)*
> Open
> 30''
> 12'' X 30''
> 8
> 13.7
> 23
> -7%​
> *AQ 30'' T8 Fluor. (24'' Bulb)*
> Kit/Open
> 30''
> 12'' X 30''
> 15
> 14.8
> 25
> 0%​
> *AQ Modular LED 30'' (3 tubes)*
> Open
> 30''
> 12'' X 30''
> 12
> 21.6
> 35
> 46%​
> *30/45 Gallon (12" x 36")*​
> *AQ Modular LED 36'' (1 tubes)*
> Open
> 36''
> 12'' X 36''
> 5
> 7.5
> 13
> -46%​
> *AQ 36'' T8 Fluor. (24'' Bulb)*
> Open
> 36''
> 12'' X 36''
> 15
> 13.9
> 25
> 0%​
> *AQ Modular LED 36'' (2 tubes)*
> Open
> 36''
> 12'' X 36''
> 10
> 15.8
> 27
> 14%​
> AQ 36'' T8 Fluor. (36'' Bulb)
> Open
> 36''
> 12'' X 36''
> 24
> 23.4
> 39
> 68%​
> *AQ Modular LED 36'' (3 tubes)*
> Open
> 36''
> 12'' X 36''
> 15
> 24.4
> 41
> 76%​
> *55 Gallon (13" x 48")*​
> *AQ Modular LED 48'' (1 tubes)*
> Open
> 48''
> 13'' X 48''
> 7
> 8.3
> 13
> -20%​
> AQ 55 Kit (2 X 24'' T8 Hoods)
> Kit
> 48''
> 13'' X 48''
> 28
> 10.4
> 16
> 0%​
> *AQ Modular LED 48'' (2 tubes)*
> Open
> 48''
> 13'' X 48''
> 14
> 17.1
> 27
> 64%​
> *AQ Modular LED 48'' (3 tubes)*
> Open
> 48''
> 13'' X 48"
> 21
> 26.5
> 41
> 155%​


Are all these PAR readings @ 12" ? Am having a hard time with how this is written up.


----------



## Bryk

Yellow-Cichlid said:


> Are all these PAR readings @ 12" ? Am having a hard time with how this is written up.


That's what it looks like. With Average and Max though it does seem to add to the confusion a little bit. All of that at 12"? My low light plants seem to be doing alright so far. 

My Anubias Fraz on a piece of driftwood, so probably 12 inches away if I had to guess has added a few leaves in 2 weeks. It is 6 almost 7 when I got it it was 4. 

My italian vals are shooting runners, but not noticeablly growing taller. 

Hornwort it shooting a branch upward towards the light. 

Red Wendetti and Giant Hygro are slower, but seem to be recovering from T8. (they are at 18 inches deep or so).

Moneywort is holding steady.

Riccia and Flame moss are status quo.


----------



## Yellow-Cichlid

Trying to figure it all out because I run TWO units. 4 Day Wites and 2 Colormax bulbs on my 36" long tank that's almost 24" to the bottom of the substrate.


----------



## Yellow-Cichlid

Does running two units (6 bulbs) basically double PAR ?


----------



## ryannguyen

I have AQ Modular LED 20'' with 2 daylight and 1 colormax. Would it increase or decrease the data of PAR below?



> AQ Modular LED 20'' (3 tubes)
> Open
> 20''
> 10'' X 20''
> 7
> 14.6
> 26
> 29%


----------



## Yellow-Cichlid

I think it would slightly decrease as the ColorMax doesn't have as many "white" bulbs. Could be wrong though. 

Still waiting to see if anyone knows if running 2 units doubles the PAR rating as well.


----------



## Hoppy

Running two lights with them sitting side by side, not separated by more than an inch or so, will double the PAR. This is true for any type of lighting, unless the light has optics that give very narrow beams of light.


----------



## ehorn

Thanks for all your contributions Hoppy. They are most appreciated.


----------



## ryannguyen

So, as I think, ColorMax has no advantage. Am I correct?


----------



## frrok

New TMC Grobeam 1500 Ultima. 
Source: http://aquarium-digest.com/2011/12/19/tmc-grobeam-1000-customer-review/#ultima
2058 Lumens, and a PAR of 148 uEinsteins/sec/m2 @16 inches.
Powerful!


----------



## mixermandan

*Colormax bulbs*

First, sorry for the way that chart came out it was that way from Aqueon and I don't have the time to edit it for the forum :frown:
Second, looking at the color spectrum for the colormax bulbs for this fixture all they do is replace a couple of the white LEDs with red ones, so if you read the chart it will give you the PAR value for 1, 2, and 3 bulbs which should be pretty similar but what you do get is a shift of spectrum from blue to red slightly because of a peak in red light from the red LED's (the spectrum is on the side of the bulb package just compare them)... 

so given that the plants absorb blue light (the daywhite bulbs have just a blue spike) better you would most likely get better growth from the day white bulbs, the red emitters will still help and not all together detract from your par too much I would think but are really only good to adjust the visible color to a warmer hue? 

I was running 2 colormax and 1 daywhite over my tank, I just switched to 2 day whites and 1 colormax, and I think my growth is slightly better with 2 day whites in place, and not much of a color difference. I'm also thinking that if I bust off the tabs that hold the bulbs and strap 4 bulbs together and add another power supply I can fit 4 side by side in the fixture increasing the output.... or maybe i'll just mod it some more (already did the moonlight) and replace the aqueon bulbs with high output LED strips. sorry... rambling


----------



## mixermandan

Yellow-Cichlid said:


> Are all these PAR readings @ 12" ? Am having a hard time with how this is written up.


yes they are all measured at 12" at the top is a legend, i'd recomend copying and pasting the section you want into a chart or excell sheet its much easier to read that way


----------



## Farmboy

One company will build an 18 watt led fixture using six-three watt emitters, another company will use 36-half watt emitters. Are there advantages of one build over the other? Does one have better light penetration then the other? Will one produce more heat then the other? Would it be adventagous for a home builder to use more smaller emitters and use a wider range of light wave lengthes of light produced? Just askin.


----------



## zackariah

Mixerman I spliced my light to add another led strip. I explain how in my moonlight mod thread.


----------



## SeaOfGreen

TheWonderfulWub said:


> I don't know if anyone has mentioned these lights yet (unlikely, since they're basically brand new), but Sunshine Systems has come out with a new LED plant pendant, a variant of their reef and grow LED lights.
> 
> http://www.sunshine-systems.com/AquaUFO-Plant-LED-Aquarium-Light-p/au-936pl-aq.htm
> 
> I and one of their reps prototyped it, and I have the original prototypes for these lights hanging over my plants tanks in my store, and they've done an amazing job keeping the plants alive and healthy. Obviously they'd be overkill for smaller tanks, but for people with larger tanks they'd be plenty powerful.
> 
> *edit*
> 
> I've got four of their reef lights over my reef, and they're giving me amazing growth and color from the corals.


I'm still looking for info on these lights as well, shooting for high light in a 21"tall tank and if the technical specs on their site are accurate it looks like a good deal, I'm just having trouble finding any firsthand experience with them.


----------



## zackariah

I'm planning on making a diy fixture, using LEDs from superbrightleds.com does anyone know if the will work? They have LEDs that put out the right spectrum. Just not sure if they can make it through 18" or so of water. The LEDs I was wanting to put in put out 7800k for the white I was also going to add some red, blue, and green to help bring out colors in the fish and plants. Not sure if 7800k is to high. Please give any advice/knowledge


----------



## pelicanincident

zackariah said:


> I'm planning on making a diy fixture, using LEDs from superbrightleds.com does anyone know if the will work? They have LEDs that put out the right spectrum. Just not sure if they can make it through 18" or so of water. The LEDs I was wanting to put in put out 7800k for the white I was also going to add some red, blue, and green to help bring out colors in the fish and plants. Not sure if 7800k is to high. Please give any advice/knowledge


Zack, are you giving up on your Aqueon Modular LEDs? I have 2 white and 1 colormax in a 24" fixture, I'm just not convinced yet. I am in Milwaukee, WI, so Aqueon is a local manufacturer for me. Pretty much all of the LFS's I visited vouched for them, saying they are legit for medium-light planted tanks.

I am also quite interested in a DIY LED fixture.


----------



## zackariah

No I haven't given up on the aqueon. I have a 20 gallon that still has t8s. I'll post my project in diy as soon as I get everything in.


----------



## Bryk

pelicanincident said:


> Zack, are you giving up on your Aqueon Modular LEDs? I have 2 white and 1 colormax in a 24" fixture, I'm just not convinced yet. I am in Milwaukee, WI, so Aqueon is a local manufacturer for me. Pretty much all of the LFS's I visited vouched for them, saying they are legit for medium-light planted tanks.
> 
> I am also quite interested in a DIY LED fixture.


 
I have given up on it. I was hoping for low light on my 37 gallon with 2 color max and 1 white. Now it is going to be supplemental(put on front side of glass) with a ray 2 on back. If the ray2 works out then maybe I'll someday switch it to a 20 long.

I went with a fugeray for my 46 gallon.

I just ordered a Fugeray R for my house plants at work and also one for a finnex breeder box.


----------



## marthat

zackariah said:


> No I haven't given up on the aqueon. I have a 20 gallon that still has t8s. I'll post my project in diy as soon as I get everything in.


Would like to see pics, I have a similiar build I'm starting


----------



## zackariah

What build? My 48" aqueon mods or the 24" diy led?


----------



## easttech

*Illumina 260 5' LED by Aquaristik*

Hello,

Has any research been done on the above mentioned LED fixture? I have white, both blues and the optional reds. This unit came to me when I purchased my 300 gallon deep dimension tank. It was set up for reef and I am told this is a great fixture for that purpose. Mine however is for a planted Discus tank. I assume this light has enough strength and spectrum for freshwater plants but I am trying to get a handle on the intensity setings for each of the colors as they are adjustable. I do not have a PAR meter and going back to the manufacturer asking about guidance for freshwater plants was a waste of time.

Any suggestions?

John


----------



## easttech

Hello,

Has any research been done on the above mentioned LED fixture? I have white, both blues and the optional reds. This unit came to me when I purchased my 300 gallon deep dimension tank. It was set up for reef and I am told this is a great fixture for that purpose. Mine however is for a planted Discus tank. I assume this light has enough strength and spectrum for freshwater plants but I am trying to get a handle on the intensity setings for each of the colors as they are adjustable. I do not have a PAR meter and going back to the manufacturer asking about guidance for freshwater plants was a waste of time.

Any suggestions?

John


----------



## Werdna

*Finnex Ray II & Marineland Plant LED*

Chaos is coming over today and we are going to use his PAR meter to get the actual PAR on a 48" Finnex Ray II in a 75 gallon tank with the fixture resting 1/4" away from All-glass tank lids.

Here is a graphic showing what the manufacturer gives you for PAR for both fixtures. Later, I will add another image with the PAR results.

















Finnex PAR link:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189944


----------



## Werdna

Based on measurements taken a locations shown with a light meter.

Measurements not taken at the 24" depth.

Left measurement is taken directly under the light, the next one to the right at halfway between the tank wall and he light, and the far right measurement was taken as close to the tank glass as possible.

Another user also posted PAR readings for the same fixture: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=293242&highlight=


----------



## moto

*Just bought an additional kessil 150w amazon*

I've been running a single amazon 150w kessil over my 32gal Ada tank for a year now with fairly well results. Only issue would be my wendtii seems to be growing fairly tall and my liliopsis brasilinsis is not very thick. The additional light should make the tank thrive. Ill post a b4 and after photo once I've installed it and ran it for a week.

BTW these lights kick ass one just does not spread out well enought to cover the 24" tank. I have to raise it a good 8-10" above the surface to get corner to corner coverage.


----------



## nikl

I've just received the BeamsWork Green Element EVO Reef LED Light Fixture 18" from Aquatraders.com. It has 10 3 watt LEDs, three of which are Actinic 460nm LEDs. I did some simple PAR readings with my seney Reef (it's probably not as professional as some but it may give a bit of an idea for the ratings). I thought I'd share (since I couldn't find any online yet). All the ratings are taken through a 1/4" glass cover in my 90g tank without the brackets (directly laying on the glass). 21" was the lowest I could go.

All lights:
0" - 778 PAR
4" - 350 PAR
8" - 258 PAR
12" - 168 PAR
18" - 105 PAR
21" - 80 PAR

Actinic 460nm LEDs ONLY:
12" - 85 PAR
18" - 44 PAR

I've also done some readings for the 48" Odyssea T5 HO (also bought from aquatraders.com) but I'll have to find another thread to post those since this is LED only.


----------



## aja31

Are all of these measurements taken through just air and water? Most glass is only about 90% transparent, and additionally many types of glass are more strongly adsorbing in the UV spectrum. If I have a glass cover between my light and the water how much of an effect does it have on the PAR value? 

I'd suspect a 10-20% change, but that is just a guess, does anyone have any data available? It will vary due to different spectra, but a rough estimate can probably be applied to all existing data if we get a few samples.


----------



## WalterMcdaniel

samamorgan said:


> This thread is here to try and keep new and seasoned aquarists informed about LED lighting. Please post any information, especially relating to PAR vs Distance you have for the various LED lighting fixtures and emitters out there. I will add more information to the top post as people throw it in here. Please provide source links wherever possible.
> 
> :angryfire *Please do not post here asking for suggestions about a certian light or recommendations for what light to choose.* :angryfire This is a place for people to come and find actual information about commercial LED fixtures. If you want some suggestions, make a new thread in the lighting forum. This serves the dual purpose of not cluttering this thread and your issue getting more exposure for a suggestion. Thanks!
> 
> *Deciphering This Thread*
> _PAR Values_(Source) -_ Thanks Gnomecatcher for the suggestion!_
> Values between 10-30 are considered low light.
> Values between 30-80 are considered medium light.
> Values between 80-120 are considered high light.
> _Keep in mind that these values are what is currently accepted by the community as accurate, and aren't set in stone._
> 
> _Symbols_
> - Fixture designed for marine applications. This can be a problem in terms of high output or bad color for planted tanks.
> :biggrin: - Fixture designed for freshwater planted applications. You shouldn't have to worry about output or color with these.​
> *AquaIllumination Sol*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
> 400+ PAR @ 24"
> 300 PAR @ 30"
> 200 PAR @ 36"
> *Notes:* Above information doesn't really do this fixture justice. Check out the source link, gives spectral output and PAR vs. distance with coverage. This fixture is meant for marine setups, so has very high PAR values. Dimming or raising the light high above the surface would be necessary for a planted setup.
> 
> *AquaticLife LED 0.5W Expandable Fixtures*
> _PAR Data not available_
> *Notes:* In response to an email i sent out, Dave Troop at AquaticLife responded saying their lights don't put out enough for plants, and are only meant for accent lighting or fish only setups_ (Source)_.
> 
> *Current TrueLumen Pro LED StripLight*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
> 350 PAR @ surface
> 96 PAR @ 6"
> 57 PAR @ 12"
> 42 PAR @ 18"
> 31 PAR @ 24"
> *Notes:* Numbers are for a single fixture. The source link shows numbers for multiple fixtures configured like a T5 setup as well, worth checking out.
> 
> *E.Shine Systems 3G LED Aquarium Lights*
> _PAR Data_(Source)
> *Notes:* The different configurations of this light series are much too extensive to list in this thread. Click on the source link for a full list of the 3G LED fixtures offered by E.Shine. Each page has very comprehensive PAR data, so just poke around a bit.
> 
> *E.Shine Systems Aqua Washer*
> _PAR Data_(Source)
> *Notes:* Complete graphical PAR data is provided in the source link for this fixture.
> 
> *E.Shine Systems 60W CREE Classic*
> _PAR Data_(Source)
> *Notes:* Complete graphical PAR data is provided in the source link for this fixture. Looks to be very high powered, more suited for marine use. Could use for plants if it was hung fairly high above the tank, or good for deep tanks.
> 
> *Ecoxotic Panorama Freshwater Module* :biggrin:
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
> 161 PAR @ surface (3" through air)
> 101 PAR @ 7"
> 60 PAR @ 12"
> 36 PAR @ 18"
> *Notes:* One should easily cover the footprint of a 10 gallon tank with medium-high light.
> 
> *Ecoxotic Stunner Strip*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 105 PAR @ surface (3" through air)
> 86 PAR @ 7"
> 71 PAR @ 12"
> 59 PAR @ 15"
> 49 PAR @ 18"
> *Notes:* Please note that the above reading is for a 4 strip array. I don't know why the testers did this since it gives us no real basis on which to judge this fixture. Good catch Erica.
> 
> *Finnex FugeRay*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 10" fixture: 49 PAR @ 6", 18 PAR @ 12", 9 PAR @ 18"
> 12" fixture: 62 PAR @ 6", 25 PAR @ 12", 13 PAR @ 18"
> *Notes:* Amazingly low cost for an LED fixture that puts out medium light for nano tanks. Nice slim design, too. It's a good idea to check out the source link on this one, gives offset PAR values so coverage can be approximated. One of the easiest to read PAR charts i've seen. Also comes equipped with blue moonlights. Big thanks to Lowe for the data on these.
> 
> *Finnex Ray II*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 16" fixture: 130 PAR @ 6", 49 PAR @ 12", 27 PAR @ 18"
> 18" fixture: 153 PAR @ 6", 72 PAR @ 12", 37 PAR @ 18"
> 24" fixture: 179 PAR @ 6", 87 PAR @ 12", 55 PAR @ 18"
> *Notes:* Great value priced fixture for various sized tanks. It's a good idea to check out the source link on this one, gives offset PAR values so coverage can be approximated. One of the easiest to read PAR charts i've seen. Big thanks to Lowe for the data on these.
> 
> *Innovative Marine SKKYE Lights*
> _PAR Data(Source)_
> Just look at the source link on this one, PAR data is very well explained.
> 
> *Kessil A150 LED Aquarium Light*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 2888 PAR @ 0"
> 2000 PAR @ surface (4" through air)
> 400-500 PAR @ 8"
> 80-90 PAR @ 15"
> *Notes:* Very powerful lights, designed for reef applications. If you go through the thread in the source link, there is a lot more information pertaining to this light. An example I found interesting was the 20g long lit with a single one of these lights hung pretty high above the tank, and still growing corals (view here). Credit for PAR data goes to Frick.
> 
> *Kessil A150W Amazon Sun* :biggrin:
> _PAR Data(Source 1, Source 2) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 56 PAR @ 18"
> 42 PAR @ 21"
> 34 PAR @ 24"
> *Notes:* Seem to be about perfect for getting medium light to most medium sized aquariums. Great coverage for such a small light. Credit for PAR data goes to propsi.
> 
> *Marineland Single Bright*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 18-24" fixture: 8 PAR @ 12", 3 PAR @ 24"
> 24-36" fixture: 10 PAR @ 12", 4 PAR @ 24"
> 36-48" fixture: 11 PAR @ 12", 4.5 PAR @ 24"
> 48-60" fixture: 16 PAR @ 12", 6 PAR @ 24"
> *Notes:* Probably not suitable for even low light plants unless the tank is very shallow.
> 
> *Marineland Double Bright*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 18-24 inch fixture: 30 PAR @ 12", 17 PAR @ 24"
> 24-36 inch fixture: 35 PAR @ 12", 19 PAR @ 24"
> 36-48 inch fixture: 54 PAR @ 12", 26 PAR @ 24"
> 48-60 inch fixture: 73 PAR @ 12", 35 PAR @ 24"
> *Notes:* Should provide low light for most tanks, depending on fixture size.
> 
> *Marineland Reef Capable*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 1876 PAR @ surface
> 253 PAR @ 6"
> 170 PAR @ 12"
> 110 PAR @ 18"
> 80 PAR @ 24"
> *Notes:* Would probably have to be hung at least 1 foot above most tanks to prevent lots of algae. Great for high light on a tall tank as well. Thanks goes out again to AquaNerd blog, much better than the information in Marineland's catalog.
> 
> *Maxspect Mazarra LED Lighting System*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source_
> 350 PAR @ 20"
> *Notes:* Check out the source link on this one, gives coverage data as well. This system is designed for reef applications, so put out very, very high PAR. They use the newest CREE XM-L emmiters, which are very powerful. Probably too powerful for anything a plant enthusiast could use. Click here for an image of what a reefer has done with this setup, and the extremely high PAR he's getting. Credit for PAR reedings on that image goes to Acrotrdco.
> 
> *TMC AquaBeam 1500XG Ocean White*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
> 231 PAR @ surface (7” through air)
> 161 PAR @ 10”
> 104 PAR @ 14”
> 78 PAR @ 19”
> 52 PAR @ 25”
> *Notes:* Uses 10 x 9000K Cree XP-G diodes.
> 
> *TMC GroBeam 1000 Natural Daylight*
> _PAR Data(Source) PAR Vs. Distance from source_
> 195 PAR @ surface (7” through air)
> 120 PAR @ 10”
> 80 PAR @ 14”
> 52 PAR @ 19”
> 41 PAR @ 25”
> *Notes:* Uses 10 x 6500K Cree XP-E Compact PowerLEDS.
> 
> *WingoLED Fluval Edge Savior*
> _PAR Data(Source)_
> *Notes:* Click on the source link for par data here, shows PAR values for various points at the bottom of the aquarium. Very nice solution for the Fluval Edge line of aquariums, where space and coverage are in inherent issue with this tank design. Credit for PAR data goes to WingoAgency.
> 
> *WingoLED PAR38 Bulbs*
> PAR38 15x1W WingoLED DayLight 12,000K
> PAR38 12x1W WingoLED TriBand 60 degree
> PAR38 18x1W WingoLED Perfect Sprectrum
> PAR38 15x1W WingoLED DayLight 6,700K
> *Notes:* Just click on the links for these individually, great graphical par data is provided. Credit for PAR data goes to WingoAgency.


Looks great information on led lighting. I am planning to get new led flashlight for my camping activity and would love to make use of the details to get one very soon


----------



## shiftysquirrel

I'm looking for PAR data on Current's new Satellite LED+ light and haven't been able to find it on here yet. Has anyone had good/bad experience growing plants with it?


----------



## nate2005

as far as I know, no one has tested them for themselves but you can find the manufacturers par results on this thread.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=307753&highlight=satellite


----------



## shiftysquirrel

Thanks for the link, Nate! 36 at 12" gives me a starting point.


----------



## tricken

ok so the par data is as follows

at 22inch deep 18 inch of water to substraight
standard 55 gal tank so 12 inch wide

at bottem edge of glass 55

bottem middle of tank 78

bottem front of glass 56

middle of tank say 12inch down mid 120 at edges 144 middle

at almost the surface i get a 250 edges and near 300 at middle

and that is 1 light at 100% i dimed it down to 90 and saw about a 3 par drop

this was all tested with a hoppy diy par light he built and calibrated

light is the build my led 48inch 60 led show tank spectrum


----------



## ReluctantHippy

Just received one of Hoppy's DIY PAR meters and this is what I documented. All measurements are from the center of the tank unless noted.


----------



## micheljq

Wow thank you. I tought that those 10W flood lights would give better results. 

Michel.


----------



## jeffkrol

micheljq said:


> Wow thank you. I tought that those 10W flood lights would give better results.
> 
> Michel.


It looks like the surface growth is blocking the light..


----------



## micheljq

jeffkrol said:


> It looks like the surface growth is blocking the light..


Hey you are right!

You've got to remove those floaters or else those readings are falsified.


----------



## ReluctantHippy

All of those readings were taken with a clear shot to the fixture. I removed as many floaters as possible from all of the tanks and whatever remained was pushed to the very edges. I would be happy to take the readings again though with all of them completely removed. I also have several of the 20w floods I could take measurements on as well if anyone is interested. Same goes with cheap 100w matrixes. Readings on Zoo-Meds new fixtures as well as AI Sols, Vegas, and Radion 1st gens are in the making.


----------



## TwoHeadsBrewing

defender.TX said:


> I'm also very curious to see PAR ratings for the Marineland Aquatic Plant Lighting System [marineland.com]. It's similar to the Marineland Reef Capable light but at a freshwater temperature. Has anyone seen data for this light?


I'm also looking for PAR data on this light...did anyone ever find anything. Or better yet, has someone actually tested this light?


----------



## krakonosh

*Eheim Aquastyle Power LED (x2)*

Hi all,

I just got Hoppy's PAR meter, so I would like to share some readings from my 9 gallon Aquastyle shrimp cube tank (12"x12"x14")

From substrate to the top it's 13" of water column.
I have two lights over the tank, got the extra one on line ($85).
Lights are 1.5" above the water.

Readings:

at the bottom (13.5" from the light) I got 55 PAR
midway - 85
just bellow the light - 300

Cheers.
Denis


----------



## BeastMaster

krakonosh said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just got Hoppy's PAR meter, so I would like to share some readings from my 9 gallon Aquastyle shrimp cube tank (12"x12"x14")
> 
> From substrate to the top it's 13" of water column.
> I have two lights over the tank, got the extra one on line ($85).
> Lights are 1.5" above the water.
> 
> Readings:
> 
> at the bottom (13.5" from the light) I got 55 PAR
> midway - 85
> just bellow the light - 300
> 
> Cheers.
> Denis


Mahalo Denis!

I've got a similar setup w/ 2 PowerLEDs over a DoAqua 30cm cube. Was wondering what my substrate surface PAR reading would be. I have a mix of Hydrocotyle and HC that will be covering the foreground of my re-scape. I really appreciate you sharing your findings. Thanks again.


----------



## 7970

What do you guys think about a finnex fugeray 30 inch over a 20 gallon long 12 inch tall low-tech aquarium? Would I get a huge algae farm if I did this?


----------



## Boryxs

krakonosh said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just got Hoppy's PAR meter, so I would like to share some readings from my 9 gallon Aquastyle shrimp cube tank (12"x12"x14")
> 
> From substrate to the top it's 13" of water column.
> I have two lights over the tank, got the extra one on line ($85).
> Lights are 1.5" above the water.
> 
> Readings:
> 
> at the bottom (13.5" from the light) I got 55 PAR
> midway - 85
> just bellow the light - 300
> 
> Cheers.
> Denis


Any update about your tank?
I just bought similar light for my 11galon and im wondering how is hemianthus cal. Is growing, is it enought light for this kind of plants...


----------



## cfranco-p

What do you think about this lights for a planted aquarium?

http://usa.hagen.com/Aquatic/Lighting/LED-Lighting/A3981

Thank for any advise!

C.F.


----------



## jbig

Anyone been able to pull up some PAR data on the Fluval Plant/Aqua life LEDs?


----------



## cfranco-p

jbig said:


> Anyone been able to pull up some PAR data on the Fluval Plant/Aqua life LEDs?


Has anyone some information to share?? :/ 

C.F.


----------



## jbig

cfranco-p said:


> Has anyone some information to share?? :/
> 
> C.F.


Hey there is a thread under lighting specifically about this LED. Shouldnt be too far back in the topics. But someone finally got a PAR chart from fluval and posted it there. Hope this helps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk


----------



## Aganor

Has anyone tested the Beamswork PowerLed fixures?

I have the 300 and 400 model,, the 300 is a 5w 56 0,1leds and the 400 is 78 0,1w leds, 9w total, making a 14w total,

I just dont know if im low or medium light with these ones, and i have no way of getting a PAR reading


----------



## alienufo

anyone have info yet on the 30" Finnex Planted+ fixture? I just got it last week and want to get some new plants, so I need to know what kind I can reasonably grow with this light on a 36g tank.


----------



## PhilipS

Fluval LED Aqualife & Plant Full Spectrum Performance LED Strip Light

Model A3981:
91 - 115 cm(36 - 46 in) (Other sizes available)

Full spectrum LED mix for FW plant growth and viewing.
Wattage: 35W
Lumens: 2980 LM
Lux: 5952
CRI: 5200K

PAR is approx 300 closest to the source measured at 3” depth, per Fluval.


----------



## rahlcepx516

Has anyone used Orphek's lights yet and tested them? I reached out and they have a Planted Tank version of their Atlantik (pendant) now. Their SW setups show high PAR out of water and decent in-tank SW setups. Can't get much info from them on what the FW system puts out and at what ranges.


----------



## kman

jbig said:


> Hey there is a thread under lighting specifically about this LED. Shouldnt be too far back in the topics. But someone finally got a PAR chart from fluval and posted it there. Hope this helps.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk


I saw that thread and that graphic, but it was only for one specific model, the 48". It sure would be nice if Fluval would release those PAR values for their full line...


----------



## Joost

Is there any PAR information regarding the following screw in LED bulbs (E27)?

http://www.tmart.com/E27-13W-60LED-1...5_p189604.html


----------



## EvilFish

Any PAR idea about AquaticLife EDGE LED?


----------



## Taekado

How does Fluval P36 light stack up, they don't list a PAR.


----------



## elo500

*Planted + par?*

I came across these par values for a 36" Finnex Planted + someone tested with an apogee tester and posted to another site. Can anyone confirm these numbers?

On center. 6" off
2" 235
6" 125
18" 95 32.5
24" 68 25.5


http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/89697-par-data-mini-review-finnex-planted.html


----------



## Taekado

webskipper said:


> Fluval LED Aqualife & Plant Full Spectrum Performance LED Strip Light
> 
> Model A3981:
> 91 - 115 cm(36 - 46 in) (Other sizes available)
> 
> Full spectrum LED mix for FW plant growth and viewing.
> Wattage: 35W
> Lumens: 2980 LM
> Lux: 5952
> CRI: 5200K
> 
> PAR is approx 300 closest to the source measured at 3” depth, per Fluval.



So 300 par at 3 inches, that sinuses like its not good. My tank is 24 inches deep.


----------



## Raymond S.

"I think" is where I'm at on this one so could anyone say "I know" ?
Is/are the bulbs(white) on a Finnex Ray II the same bulbs as the Planted+
or are the bulbs(white) on the Planted+ the same as on the Fugeray ?
This question has come up many times because the Fugeray is much lower in PAR than a Ray II.


----------



## danmd

Don't know if this piece of information is available, just want to give out my first contribution to the community. It is about the PAR values for the Finnex Ray2










According to the Finnex representative, the Finnex Ray2 is better than the Planted Plus for big tanks


----------



## pixelpunk

EvilFish said:


> Any PAR idea about AquaticLife EDGE LED?


I am looking for this as well. I'd even settle for the the ANSI lumen rating.


----------



## jeffkrol

pixelpunk said:


> I am looking for this as well. I'd even settle for the the ANSI lumen rating.


better: 



> Staff
> Thank you for your question. Per the vendor:
> The Edge will grow low-med light plants. The wattage is as listed below.
> 24” = 30w
> 36” = 48w
> 48” = 71w
> Also, if the tank is wider than 12” front to back they will need 2 Edge fixtures.


Best:


> so i just called and spoke to a rep there. he gave me the following specs.
> first, my tank is a 125g. 72"wide 18" front to back and i believe 23"deep.
> ..
> ..
> at 12" depth the par is 95-105, at 18" the par is 55-65. he did not have a rating for deeper than that. my actual water depth is probably closer to 20" when i subtract the rim thickness and the substrate depth.
> i would say i have a good 40 par at 20"?
> he also said at 16.5", the lumans are about 4240-4250.


Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...quaticlife-edge-fixture-367610/#ixzz36ROZqvK8
also:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=577321


----------



## pixelpunk

Thanks for running that down jeffkrol.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

Can we get the Fluval and Marineland planted tank light in here?

For the Marineland the (not very specific) manufacturer specs are ...our light has 1 watt, 6,500K white leds and 3 watt RGB LEDS (RGB means 460 nm blue, 660 nm red, and 660 green). Each type is a different spectrum and serves a different purpose for plant growth. PAR/LUX at a depth of 12" would be 172/10530 and at 24" would be 83/4810. These numbers are for all four models.


----------



## jpezz333

*Current LED*



shiftysquirrel said:


> I'm looking for PAR data on Current's new Satellite LED+ light and haven't been able to find it on here yet. Has anyone had good/bad experience growing plants with it?


I have had the Current Satellite + on my 46 bow planted tank for 6 months. I am not impressed. Not sure about PAR values but the fixture is dimmer than my T5 fixture and the plants are not doing as well as they were with the T5's. I still have 1 T5 bulb on the tank with the Current LED.

Several species of stem plants are rotting at the base or have totally died. I could not keep Pogostomen Helferi alive but my HC is doing fine. Growth of all plants has slowed. I am not sure it the problem is the penetration of light to the bottom of the tank or the spectrum.


----------



## AnotherHobby

jpezz333 said:


> I have had the Current Satellite + on my 46 bow planted tank for 6 months. I am not impressed. Not sure about PAR values but the fixture is dimmer than my T5 fixture and the plants are not doing as well as they were with the T5's. I still have 1 T5 bulb on the tank with the Current LED.
> 
> Several species of stem plants are rotting at the base or have totally died. I could not keep Pogostomen Helferi alive but my HC is doing fine. Growth of all plants has slowed. I am not sure it the problem is the penetration of light to the bottom of the tank or the spectrum.


What is that, almost 22" tall? Of course that's not going to do well. It's only putting out a little over 20 PAR at that depth. It's a great light for shorter tanks, not so much at all for tall ones. Heck, I have 2 on mine, and it's only 12" from the substrate.


----------



## BarryG

I cannot find the blog that described a DIY retrofit of the stock light on the Fluval Spec V with solderless Cree LEDs.Ã‚Â[censored]

Does anyone recall this discussion or have a recommendation for how this is done on the Fluval SpecÃ‚Â[censored]V? 

Your advice would be appreciated.Ã‚Â[censored]


Sincerely,Ã‚Â[censored]


BarryG


----------



## treyLcham

i was just about to buy two marineland dual led light fixtures. My tank dimensions are 36x18x18" and i will have about 2.5in of soil when i put it together. My question is that i think 1of the 36"-48" would do good for low to at most mid so i was thinking in this case that two of them would give me a high range? IS this what i should be doing or should i only be getting one fixture. Also i would like to add that they would be hanging about 1foot above the water. Hope someone can answer this question! It would really help in my decision making before i go out and blow through 500$


----------



## Aganor

Hi all, i bought a brand new TMC 1500 Ultima 6500k DayLight, does anyone have any home PAR readings? the only one i have is the one on the reviews, 148 PAR @ 16", 
I would be thankful for some hobbyst review on it since im going to use it at 16" from soil.


----------



## DayOlder

Great resource. Thank you for your time and work.


----------



## DexterFreeman

danmd said:


> Don't know if this piece of information is available, just want to give out my first contribution to the community. It is about the PAR values for the Finnex Ray2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Finnex representative, the Finnex Ray2 is better than the Planted Plus for big tanks


If my tank is 20 inches deep, and then say I have 3-4 inches of substrate, would either the Planted+ or Ray2 be enough for high-light requiring carpet plants? They would be sitting at 17 inches below the rank rim at the lowest. According to OP a PAR above 80 is considered high. I guess its cutting it too close?


----------



## Raul-7

This illustrates a point with LEDs if you notice the wavelengths they output.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198810

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...uatic-plant-club/86658-experiments-light.html

Note how T5's and MH output more light in those needed wavelengths; hence why I wouldn't use LEDs alone but rather as a supplement to MH or T5


----------



## jeffkrol

Raul-7 said:


> This illustrates a point with LEDs if you notice the wavelengths they output.
> 
> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198810
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...uatic-plant-club/86658-experiments-light.html
> 
> Note how T5's and MH output more light in those needed wavelengths; hence why I wouldn't use LEDs alone but rather as a supplement to MH or T5


not really... 
It is an option, and one reefers lean to but in no way holds w/ a proper choice of LED's.. just ask the hort. world, when factoring in cost of operation.. 
sure 350W MH beats out a 20W led setup by sheer brute force and wasted watts..

















http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/aquarium_lighting.html



> In tests for plant nurseries (Green House, Hydroponics) full spectrum LEDs such as the newer generation TMC GroBeam Aquarium Lights, 3-10w LED Grow Lights, or even the older generation LED Grow Lights have been proven to surpass even Metal Halide Lights in both growth and useful output.
> 
> The picture to the left is the plant growth results comparing the same Kelvin output LED and Metal Halide Lights as measured by a PAR Meter (please click to enlarge view).





> LED Summary; The bottom line is when you compare an LED Aquarium light to the many popular CFLs and even T5s in terms of lumens per watt, focused lumens, PAR, PUR, lower wasted yellow/green light energy, low heat output, energy consumption, long life (25,000 to 50,000 hours vs. 8000 hours), the modern recent generations of LED Fixtures are generally the best available aquarium light.
> This includes the patented emitter ultra premium high PUR per watt AquaRay AquaBeam or GroBeam LEDs as well as the still VERY capable Aqua Illuminations, EcoTech Radion, ZetLight (aka Maxspect), and few others.
> Most premium LEDs are a better light even in long term cost since (as an example) a 12 Watt Aqua Ray GroBeam 6500K daylight (either #600 Strip or Mini #400 Tile) can easily replace a up to a 80 Watt power compact (also daylight) when you compare ALL aspects of lighting as presented in this article.
> 
> When compared to even older T8/T12 aquarium lights, a forth generation TMC AquaBeam & GroBeam High End LEDs require only 15% (or less) of the wattage for the required light energy of a planted or reef aquarium.
> This is as little as .6 watt per gallon for high light planted aquariums and .8 watt per gallon for Reef for the TMC AquaRay and 1.25 -1.5 watt per gallon for the ZetLight, EcoTech & Aqua Illuminations, and 1.75 -2.25 for many other LEDs such as the Ocean Revive, Taotronics, etc. (Acroporas may require a higher wattage input per gallon)
> 
> Any flaws of LED aquarium lights are quickly disappearing and based on the energy savings for the premium high PUR LEDs with PWM technology as compared to MH.
> In fact for Planted Freshwater the top LED Lights (with the highest PUR) have few limits in their applications.


----------



## Trigger334

Hi everyone,

I recently made this Aquarium LED PAR/PUR video I was hoping I could get some feedback on. It goes into some aspect I believe are a little misunderstood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T4FKchXASs


----------



## BruceF

I skipped through most of that but did you ever give any par values or pur for that matter?


----------



## Trigger334

BruceF said:


> I skipped through most of that but did you ever give any par values or pur for that matter?


The video was not to endorse any LED, so I did not provide PAR or PUR values. Keep in mind PAR values can be very mis-leading because a LED could have a smaller PAR number, but have more PUR. Making an overall fixture with less "PAR" having much more growing power.

It's recommended to take a look at each emitter used in a LED to see our the PAR values are coming about.

Someone cannot say, oh this plant takes "this much PAR" to grow, because PAR is subjective from LED fixture to fixture.

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2012/03/pur-vs-par-in-aquarium-lighting.html


----------



## Dragonfish88

can someone recommend a LED fixture for 65-75 gallon planted tank with medium to high light plants?

so far i'm leaning toward Finnex Ray2 but the PAR value seems very low with a 24inch depth.


----------



## jeffkrol

Dragonfish88 said:


> can someone recommend a LED fixture for 65-75 gallon planted tank with medium to high light plants?
> 
> so far i'm leaning toward Finnex Ray2 but the PAR value seems very low with a 24inch depth.


almost any LED w/ 1W or better emitters.. Or "a 'lot" of .5W ones..

how much is the budget and how much control do you want?
65-75's are wide so how much shading at the surface will you tolerate?


----------



## fishnoob

*LED review please*

HI, I have an AquaOne PlantGlo, 60cm. I have no idea how good it is or its specs. Can somebody help me? thanks in advance


----------



## Aquatic Delight

Is there a more up to date list on par values with new led lights that have come out?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


----------



## clownplanted

Aquatic Delight said:


> Is there a more up to date list on par values with new led lights that have come out?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


I am also wondering this. Would be great if this thread was updated with the latest LED lights.


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## Esteban Colberto

@samamorgan I didn't really go through all 22 pages but you might be interested in this reference if you haven't already seen it. Online Excel spreadsheet with some manufacturer and measured data including offset, light spread, etc.

Love your reference. Personally I have 4 Aquaray GroBEAM 600 Ultima lights and I had no idea they were made by a company called TMC. A new clue for me right away. Thank you sir.


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## geektom

wow, this thread has been super helpful to me, as I am considering how to light my latest project, a 150g tank that is 60" wide by 30" deep by 18" high.

With an average depth of 3" of substrate, I avoid the problem normally associated with high tanks, but I don't know how to estimate how many fixtures I will need to cover the *depth* of the tank. Most of the manufacturers I have looked at don't do a great job of documenting the spread of their lights.

Additionally, I would like to suspend the lights over the tank, because it is euro-braced (leaving the top almost completely open).

Any suggestions on how to determine the actual coverage of your typical strip LED fixture? Other than expensive trial and error?

Thanks!


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## jeffkrol

Simple math gives you most data..

almost all small LED's are lensed at 120 degrees w/ a high proportion of the light in a smaller angle of ..say.. 100.
Which is why most are "close to top" mounted..
Hanging you need to look more to lensed fixtures..or DIY and choose your own lenses..

So say you have a 120 lensed fixture..and want full coverage front to back @ 18" wide..
Single (or tightly packed multiple ) row..
6" above the water line is a ballpark estimate..20" f/b coverage at the water line..

So when calculating par at the "floor" need to add 6"..approx.
need more PAR at the bottom? double up..


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## geektom

ok, I will bust out the protractor and do some work... sounds like for most of the reasonably priced units (Like the Finnex) I will need to double up to adequately cover the 30" depth, so I just have to figure out the cost comparison of multiple reasonable units vs 1-2 high-end ones.


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## jeffkrol

geektom said:


> ok, I will bust out the protractor and do some work... sounds like for most of the reasonably priced units (Like the Finnex) I will need to double up to adequately cover the 30" depth, so I just have to figure out the cost comparison of multiple reasonable units vs 1-2 high-end ones.


no need for a protractor..
tan of 1/2 the beam angle x the distance of diodes from target = radius of the light cone
2x radius = cone diameter..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1086521-led-depth.html

as to "depth".. that's a different story..
suggest looking into Beamsworks 3W versions 90 degree lenses for that..
Other alternates include much more expensive lights.
https://sbreeflights.com/16-freshwater-plant-lights/36-sbox-pro-16-timer.html
these or Even Radion XR15 gen4 freshwater..


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## geektom

I think I confused things when I used the term "Depth"...

The tank is relatively shallow (18 inches high) but is 30 inches front-to-back-- that is what I meant when I said deep. Sorry about that.

So I am trying to figure out whether a single fixture (or line of fixtures) can effectively reach both my foreground and the back of the tank, due to that 30" measurement.


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## jeffkrol

geektom said:


> I think I confused things when I used the term "Depth"...
> 
> The tank is relatively shallow (18 inches high) but is 30 inches front-to-back-- that is what I meant when I said deep. Sorry about that.
> 
> So I am trying to figure out whether a single fixture (or line of fixtures) can effectively reach both my foreground and the back of the tank, due to that 30" measurement.


Around 8" off the water line...
Rough effective depth would be 26- minus substrate..Figure 24"for PA at the substrate...
to be honest I'd still favor 2 lights 60" wide.. Which is a bit problematic..
butting LED's end to end can be problematic..Stretching 48" to 60" is a bit annoying personally..


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## geektom

jeffkrol said:


> Around 8" off the water line...
> Rough effective depth would be 26- minus substrate..Figure 24"for PA at the substrate...
> to be honest I'd still favor 2 lights 60" wide.. Which is a bit problematic..
> butting LED's end to end can be problematic..Stretching 48" to 60" is a bit annoying personally..


Yeah, and with the euro-bracing, the opening on top of the tank is 54" x 24", and there is no rim because of it, either... I am thinking I may need 4 x 30" fixtures (2 lines of 2 each), or, because the depth (front to back) is 30", I could try 30" fixtures across (perpendicular to the long side).

Lol, this is hard just using words...

I also want my hardscape to come out of the water- another reason to hang the lights.


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## Deanna

Nice to see that someone once made an attempt to characterize the many models of the burgeoning LED approach to aquarium lighting. Too bad it isn’t being maintained. I still struggle trying to calculate the amount of light that reaches across the floor of my substrate, given lens distance and model. I wonder how long before “calculators” start to appear, such as with EI dosing models, where you would enter your model and/or PAR value, best-guess PUR (based upon eyeballing spectral curves) value, LED angles, breadth, depth (front to back), lens height from substrate and water surface, etc. Then the tool is available to non-scientists for better sensitivity analysis of the light aspect of planted tanks.


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## Lingwendil

Deanna said:


> Nice to see that someone once made an attempt to characterize the many models of the burgeoning LED approach to aquarium lighting. Too bad it isn’t being maintained. I still struggle trying to calculate the amount of light that reaches across the floor of my substrate, given lens distance and model. I wonder how long before “calculators” start to appear, such as with EI dosing models, where you would enter your model and/or PAR value, best-guess PUR (based upon eyeballing spectral curves) value, LED angles, breadth, depth (front to back), lens height from substrate and water surface, etc. Then the tool is available to non-scientists for better sensitivity analysis of the light aspect of planted tanks.


Well, if you know the details of the emitters and bins used, Spectra is a useful tool-

SPECTRA

Pretty good functionality, assuming you're a "power user" enough to know the technical details of the emitters and info, good for getting a rough idea. Doesn't have all the details for lenses or reflectors, but can give you a good idea of some things if you punch in the right idea...


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## Deanna

Lingwendil said:


> Spectra is a useful tool


Interesting, but lacking much in terms of the criteria I listed. My idea was to see a model that would tell users what to expect from a product (not a DIY LED setup) and, where the user does have control, what to do. This what the EI models do.

For example: You have a tank that is 12" wide and 30" long with a water depth to the substrate of 13" and you want the light to be 5" above the water surface. You put those numbers into the calculator. You want a PAR of 70 at the substrate. You are looking at several different brands and models of LED lights (not DIY emitters). The calculator would ask for PAR and estimated PUR values at important wavelengths (blues and reds) based upon the manufacturers spectral distribution chart. Although the calculator would allow you to choose from many of the more popular brands and have all of those particular specs included, you would still have the option to input PAR, PUR estimates, beam angle, etc., if the brand wasn't in the calculators list. Is it direct lighting or do you have a glass cover that will destroy parts of the blue spectrum. Acrylic is much better, so output be different. 

Now you can play with each variable to find optimal values for your situation. You see that the GroBeam 600 is more than enough and might do best at 7" above the water surface. However, some other brands can do almost as well. Yes, you can plow through these calculations without such a calculator, but it could take hours to comparison shop or to find optimal settings for your current light setup. Such a calculator would save that time and make it so much easier, especially for novices, to get it right the first time.

If I had the know-how, I'd do it myself.


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## AquaThumb83

Don't know if this has been posted yet but thought I'd share.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

AquaThumb83 said:


> Don't know if this has been posted yet but thought I'd share.


Note the above are "open air" readings not through water and no data for PAR off the center line where if 90 degree lenses are utilized the drop off in PAR could be substantial.


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## iamaloner

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Note the above are "open air" readings not through water and no data for PAR off the center line where if 90 degree lenses are utilized the drop off in PAR could be substantial.


Air measurement for sure
I wonder how much less it will be with water. 

Goes to show you need at least 2-3 for proper coverage on any tank more than 16" depth 

Might as well buy a Kessil or a sbreef or a ecotech imo. So much better for high tech. 

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


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