# low light high tech: how could the algae possibly be coming back?????



## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Unbelievable!

After a solid year of fighting BBA I finally decided to go back to my original low light fixture (t5no over a 54g tank) but keep the high-tech setup going. With low light, lots of current, and a green-yellow drop checker I figured algae should be at a minimum.

It was, for a first month or so. Sure enough, today I noticed a velvety carpet of fuzz on the drifwood under the light. Hardly any algae on the plants, which is great, but my huge piece of driftwood isn't looking so great.

Very frustrating. My tap water is at around 6.7 (6.5 right out of the tap, but it offgasses a bit and settles at 6.7) and my ph controller is set at 5.6 with a 'more yellow then green' drop checker. So, I have reason to believe that I've got plenty of CO2.

I do a reduced EI dosage with weekly water changes and the plants look happy.

I am disappointed to see this algae growing 
What can I possibly try next?
- Dave


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## Erica (Dec 16, 2010)

I have two t5no's on my 40b spaced far apart, frogbit, and pressurized co2, and I am getting BBA on my driftwood too. It's only on a high part of the driftwood, but it's still annoying.


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

Dave-H said:


> Unbelievable!
> 
> After a solid year of fighting BBA I finally decided to go back to my original low light fixture (t5no over a 54g tank) but keep the high-tech setup going. With low light, lots of current, and a green-yellow drop checker I figured algae should be at a minimum.
> 
> ...



o no dave.That's terrible.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I recall reading a magazine article by Amano where he acknowledged having to clean off the algae on his driftwood and rocks every time he does tank maintenance. Things high in the tank will almost always be in high light, so algae will always be a good possibility. You can limit the height of the hardscape and eliminate most of that problem.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Dave I know your pain. I have gotten rid of BBA several times, and it always comes back after 3-6-12 months or so. I have a routine now, Every few weeks I do a week of Excel treatment dosing just slightly over the recommended amount. It seems to work, my slower growing plants are now staying clean, and my hardscape is clear as well. Keep on top of your filter maintenance, I noticed if I get slack on it, BBA comes rearing back.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

This algae isn't even just near the top of the driftwood where it's close to the light. I've got algae growing around 3 inches off the substrate, where there is PAR of around 12-17!


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

Dave,
I found that by decreasing the ratio of KNO3, does help in my case. If my memory serves me correctly, I read about algae and ferts on Rex Grigg's website and heeded the advice. It helped, but was only a temp solution, until I got everything balanced. 

Hope this helps.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

BBa will survive low light too.

Don't scrub the BBa in the tank. You'll just spread it around the tank. Spot treat it with h2o2.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Hoppy said:


> I recall reading a magazine article by Amano where he acknowledged having to clean off the algae on his driftwood and rocks every time he does tank maintenance. Things high in the tank will almost always be in high light, so algae will always be a good possibility. You can limit the height of the hardscape and eliminate most of that problem.


It was only when my CO2 stank.......did I ever have any BBA on my driftwood/rocks etc. I've never seen any other reason in 20 years in every case.

BBA, not a drop checker, is _the test.
_

Once you get it, you correct the issue. Then you attack the BBA.
Amano spent 10 years dealing with BBA, I spent 3.
H2O2, Excel etc can help fix the BBA that's there but it'll grow back until the CO2 is fixed.

I use a slow progress approach to cO2, I dial in what I think is about right, mayeb use the pH KH test, then..........from there.....I watch carefully every day and if I can set the lighting so I can watch for a few hours a minute or two here or there..then I slowly adjust the CO2 up, little by little and watch carefully.

Many turn the CO2 too high, or are simply not patient enough and gas their fish.

A drop checker tends to target say 15ppm or 30ppm , few folks set the drop checker up to target the right amount for cO2 for each unique individual tank, and placement and delay in response times also need factored in.

My tanks all have higher targets that a drop checker would measure with a 4KH ref and BB indicator. They would be useless to me unless I used a different target CO2 ppm range for the green color.

One tank is 70ppm, another is 55, another is 45 ppm.

They are, what they are..............I do not set them to be say........30ppm, or 15 ppm which is very arbitrary in many respects. I suggested 30ppm a long time ago based on 4 aquatic weeds that are very aggressive. Many of the 400 other species are less aggressive, so they likely need more CO2 than this to be non limited.

We can make a tank non limited easily for nutrients, light, we can measure that and set at some level, say 40 umol (any above the LCP will work....only the rate of the growth will change), we can get somewhat close with CO2, then just like increasing nutrients and watching plants.....we do the same for CO2.

Unlike nutrients however, folks play very loose with CO2 and kill their fish, no one kills their fish dosing ferts(maybe, but exceedingly rare.........).


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I've noticed less BBA with medium co2 instead of high co2. I've been told it could be due to the ph swing that triggers bba. Could be something to it.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

mistergreen said:


> I've noticed less BBA with medium co2 instead of high co2. I've been told it could be due to the ph swing that triggers bba. Could be something to it.


I have a pH swing of 1.2 to 1.4 daily.

If I notice BBA on wood........I add more CO2 and then kill what is there.
If it were due to medium CO2, adding more would NOT resolve the issue.

In everyone of my tanks, I can reduce /stop the CO2 and induce BBA, hair algae, GSA etc. Happens if the gas tank runs out and I forget/do not check it. 

Plants seem to adapt to low CO2(some species) pretty well and we find no to little cases of BBA in non CO2 tanks, *I've never had BBA in a non cO2 planted tank.*

Maybe confusing plants enzymatically with varying the CO2 ppm and allowing them time to adapt well is the key. So stability in that context seems valid.

Still, once you approach or exceed non limiting CO2, then the stability will increase. Water changes would also cause algae as well since large pH changes occur if done during the day, which I always do. I think more of the issue might be adding enough CO2 at the right time of day, mostly the first 1-2 hours. 










This is for a client's tank data logger. It takes some time to get the CO2 up to about 40ppm. In the slope was slower and not as steep/bell shaped....then I'd have algae. the faster it goes up and stabilizes, the better, then when the lights are off, the CO2 drops rapidly (there's a wet/dry helping that). Now if I also ramp up my light PAR along this same slope that the CO2 builds up, then the plant demand is optimized.

So a noon time blast might work better for this reason, gives the CO2 system time to pump plenty of CO2 before high light comes in. BBA does not seem picky about light, but the plants are if they run out.
Running out of CO2 hurts the plants but does not harm the algae.
It seems the algae responds indirectly to poor plant health.

I still got BBA even at 10-30umol in this tank till I corrected the CO2:










This tank ran around 45-55ppm CO2. I got bad BBA on the wood, but not the plants. Once I fixed the CO2, this went away.

Same deal with the 70 Gal manzy due to broken pipe in the CO2 system. Should have checked every spot with soapy water The Manzy wood got covered pretty fast with BBA, once corrected, I use H2O2, and then some excel during water changes, 3-4 weeks later, no BBA is visible, plant health MUCH better. Poor plant health= algae issues.

Hard to say and without decent CO2 measurement and data logging the range, it's tough to say, but for most of the hobby, we use algae and good plant growth as "the test".


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

plantbrain said:


> Plants seem to adapt to low CO2(some species) pretty well and we find no to little cases of BBA in non CO2 tanks, *I've never had BBA in a non cO2 planted tank.*


I assume the non-CO2 tanks were all low light? How about low light tanks with CO2?


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