# LED grow lights



## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

I was recently interested in the use of LED's for growing plants. They are getting cheaper and better so I emailed a company called Solaroasis about there ruby grow bar product http://www.solaroasis.com/. It turns out they haven't conducted many tests on aquariums since these were designed to grow terrestrial plants. We've been talking for a while and as result I've been given the opportunity to try out these terrestrial lights.

The primary purpose for me getting these lights is to use them as supplemental lighting on my planted tank. I'll probably end up trying a few different configurations but for now I've put two of the bars over my 90 gallon. My tank already had pretty good lighting with 4x55watt CF lighting but there were a couple of dim spots due to shading that could be made better. I've noticead two things over the past 4 days 1) Pearling starts to occur earlier in the day, 2) once started, pearling can continue with just the LEDs on.

The ouput spectrum of these lights is strange to view but it's stated clearly in the pamphlets that came with them "lights for plants not people". This means the colour they give is heavy in the blue and red with almost no green or yellow, or very little visible light. Pics will follow when my camera gets fixed but for now I've scanned a graph showing the output of these and several other types of light. Probably of most interest to us is the flourescent lights compared here, I've been told they are Sunwave (CF lights) and Growlux normal output.










For a closer look:
http://www.pricenetwork.ca/gallery/albums/userpics/16226/light output.jpg


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

OK, being a gadget lover, I'm subscribing to see what happens with this!!


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## daFrimpster (Mar 7, 2005)

Very intriguing! I am looking forward to following your adventure! thansk for sharing.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

only thing i could see worry some is the lumen output. LED's dont have the technology behind them yet to have good lumen output for reasonible prices. in a short tank this wouldnt be a problme but they might have trouble getting into a deep tank. plus if the plants started to grow over the top of the tank the light wouldnt be able to get around the plants as easy as say a PC


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

TheOtherGeoff said:


> only thing i could see worry some is the lumen output. LED's dont have the technology behind them yet to have good lumen output for reasonible prices. in a short tank this wouldnt be a problme but they might have trouble getting into a deep tank. plus if the plants started to grow over the top of the tank the light wouldnt be able to get around the plants as easy as say a PC


That's a very valid point and part of the reason I'm trying this newer LED technology out. These particular lights haven't been tested beyond 18 inches from what I've been told so I'm pushing the limits here. As far as lumen output is concerned I know what you mean but I think we'll have to throw that exact type of measurement out the window since lumens are a measure of visible light to our human eyes. According to that graph I put up we're not supposed to see much light ourselves but the plants are. If needed we can probably get more technical data from the company but for now all I can do is look at plant 
growth.

The price for one of these bars may be high initially, but over the long term keep in mind that you won't have to change the bulbs for something like 8 years, and the amount of power they use is much less saving you money. We'll have to do some cost assessments though to see how it works out.


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## hOAGART (May 13, 2004)

how bout some pics with the LED's on your tank ?


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Yup, for sure, lots of pics will follow as long as things stay interesting. My camera is just getting fixed at the moment, apparently it doesn't like rain.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

The bars don't look useful for aquarium use. The lights look like they are too far apart. The individual lights look like they have great potential though, I bet you could cluster up six of them over a 10 gallon and kick butt.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

They actually have a fairly decent spread of light but I see your point. I'll have to try them out longer but I think the individual lights would be perfect in situation where you have say a wimpy light demanding plant that you want to keep but don't want to add another whole cf bulb, due to size and heat issues. In that situation you could position it directly above your plant of interest. I should add though that I wouldn't want to use these as my sole source of light, just supplemental, you simply can't see much and the colours are weird but early indications are that they can really make my plants grow. 

Supplemental is what I wanted here. I already have a well lit tank but some shaded areas crop up when the plants grow in. I've managed to position these LED bars over my light demanding plants to give them a real test. This morning I did another simple test and turned them on 3 hrs before the rest of the lights, my ludwigia inclinata and rotala wallichi soon opened up with these lights on. I have two more bars that I can use, I might be able to stagger them so the light spread is very even. Pics soon, I promise.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I will also be following this thread with interest.

Note that if you have minimal electronics skill, and more time than money, you could build identical LED clusters for a lot less.

If you don't feel like soldering dozens (or hundreds) of LEDs together, you can trade some money for time and use the big guns - 1W leds. SolarOasis says their clusters use less than 2W of power; most of the output is in red. So two 1W reds (2x $11 = $22) and a few standard blues (~$2) will exceed their cluster's output. Add a few more bucks for PVC enclosure, perfboard, resistors, etc. A laptop power supply ($10 surplus) can power lots of clusters. Still around 1/2 the price of their product per unit of light.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

Some of those companies are making LEDS in up to 5watts now. they are getting hem to breach into the multi hunderd lumens but they are SOO expensive. i am definilty interested to see how they turn out. another thing to consider is the beam housing that the LED is in. is it a wide angle, narrow angle, projecter?? all these things are going to come into play with the led being effective or worthless


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## Safado (Jul 10, 2005)

DarkCobra said:


> If you don't feel like soldering dozens (or hundreds) of LEDs together, you can trade some money for time and use the big guns - 1W leds. SolarOasis says their clusters use less than 2W of power; most of the output is in red. So two 1W reds (2x $11 = $22) and a few standard blues (~$2) will exceed their cluster's output. Add a few more bucks for PVC enclosure, perfboard, resistors, etc. A laptop power supply ($10 surplus) can power lots of clusters. Still around 1/2 the price of their product per unit of light.


I am seeing a great DIY project. Where can you find the 1W LEDs? How many volts do they use? What is the light output of a 1W LED? Would you use a resister, or wire them in series?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Safado said:


> I am seeing a great DIY project. Where can you find the 1W LEDs? How many volts do they use? What is the light output of a 1W LED? Would you use a resister, or wire them in series?


I found 1W LEDs here. Found them last night for use in a non-aquarium related project.  The manufacturer's spec sheets are linked and I recommend you read that for all the gory details.

Any wiring configuration will work as long as you don't exceed the maximum current for the LED.

Most large multi-LED illuminators are series/parallel. For example, if you have a 12v supply and want to drive 2.5v LEDs at maximum brightness, you'd string 4 LEDs together in series, along with a resistor to trim off the extra 2v. Add additional strings of LEDs/resistors as necessary. The resistor produces heat, so use one with appropriate wattage rating. If you're clever with your power supply and LED configuration, you could omit the resistor altogether and reduce heat/energy consumption; but the resistor also provides some protection to the rest of the string in case one LED shorts out.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Safado said:


> I am seeing a great DIY project. Where can you find the 1W LEDs? How many volts do they use? What is the light output of a 1W LED? Would you use a resister, or wire them in series?


As any geek will tell you, you can find LEDs at Radio Shack (a Tandy Company).


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I am continuing the DIY discussion in a new thread to avoid cluttering this one further. Check it out if you're interested, I have some great new info:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=208825#post208825


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

The camera isn't back yet but I just thought I'd update now that the plants have had a couple of weeks. I've gotta say I'm impressed so far with these LED's. Everything is growing noticeably better under them. Not only is the rate of growth increasing but the morphology and colour of the plants is also different, and for the better. The wimpy high-light plants are taking off under them now, that includes: rotala wallichii, rotala macandra, and ludwigia inclinata. There is a noticeable difference in one plant in particular though.

I had a mound of sunset hygro in my tank that I trimmed down recently, most of it is directly under a new 55 watt ge 9325k bulb which gets alot of fanfare for its ability to grow plants. Another section of this plant has some of the LED light beaming directly down upon it and wow, is that part of the plant ever red on top, it has also grown about 5 inches higher than the rest.

The camera might come back this week.


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## Jerm (Sep 26, 2005)

OOOO thats interesting. If we keep this thread alive long enough, someone will set up and experiment to test, and of course to try to prove you wrong, and when they find out you were right, pretend that was not the motive. And that somone will not be me. That someone has to have MONEY. Very important. Very.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

I actually want to try out a few different configurations Jerm, but for now without a camera there is no point. That way if they work it will be harder to prove me wrong They are supplemental light so at this point I'd like to see if they can do much on there own. I have two more grow bars that I'm thinking of putting over a 10 gallon as the only source of light. Maybe then I can make stronger claims. 

I really hope they work, as they appear to be doing so far. It sure was nice to get them sent to me for a try out, but I won't let that bias me.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Oh, I don't doubt they work. The science behind them is proven, in the form of the fluorescent grow-lights that have been around for decades..

What I'm *really* interested in is the changes in morphology that you report. Can't wait until you get your camera.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I just wanna revive this thread to see how everything is working out, and I'm still waiting to see some pictures. I might try this out on one of my 10gal tanks if the results prove to be worth the effort. I'll probably build it DIY as I like to fart around with little projects like this.

Marcel


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Mmm, yes. I'd also like an update. Bumpity-bump-bump.

Did 66north ever get back his camera?

Did the plants mutate into a mobile, carnivorous variety and eat him?

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode.


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## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

I wonder if Tom Barr, Plantbrain, would like to give his input on the specifics of aquatic plant chlorophyll and if differs from terrestrial plants at all. Especially in the wavelength absorption properties specific to aquarium plants.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Mine are being shipped on Friday. They are currently redesigning the lights. I'll post pics of mine after I get them installed.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

My camera is back so now I can start to actually document something with these LEDs. I'm quite confident they are bringing out the reds in some of my plants and improving growth overall. I'll set up an experiment very soon to try them out on there own and post pics. Here's the tank they've been on with 4 55watt compacts.


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## hoffboy (Feb 20, 2005)

Wow! Would love to see more pics of this tank.


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## Ðank (Dec 29, 2005)

I am glad that your camera was fixed 66, you can continue to share(and now show) your results. This is very interesting...

EDIT: I have found another experiment with LEDs. Here

On page 7, the last post, is a link to a very recent LED test.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

I asked the guy who sent me the ruby grow bars about the possibility of making your own by buying the parts yourself. He says that most of the LEDs used in their products are custom made for them, which makes it tough for people to copy. He also says the Luxeon
Star series of lights is certainly bright enough to compete with traditional white lighting products. Finally, in the independant tests that people have performed (e.g. NASA) he says scientists are starting to see, with the help of his products, that plants need a very wide spectrum of light for health, taste, and color, and that's why his products output such a wide spectrum of
light. They're redesigning the ruby grow bars at the moment he also sent another figure showing the new output spectrum but I have to convert the file before I put it up.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

I've been talking a bit more to SolarOasis and got some more info about the lights. I will be setting up an experiment soon now that I've built a rack for my tanks. I have done a small experiment however, inadvertantly by being really busy this past week. I actually didn't have the lights on over my 90 gallon this week and noticed a decline in my ludwigia inclinata, one of the wimpier plants I keep. I'm going to keep the ruby grow bars on this week to see if there's a change, pics will come over the week.

In the meantime, I've got some more interesting pics of the lights themselves from SolarOasis that show the lights under different filters. I think they are pretty relevant to understanding how these lights work.

The first is the human eye view









Pic using and infra-red filter









Any finally what I find most interesting a pic using a wide-spectrum Sony camera. Basically this is a "plant-eye" view, and is showing us what a plant sees when under these LED lights. Only about 40-60%
of the light emitted by the ruby grow bars is visible to the human eye, and personally I find them to be pretty intense/hard on the eyes.










Also, this is kind of pointlesss but some of you may have figured out that I went to Iceland for a while as well. This company says their lights help improve taste as well as colour and growth rate. I like the sound of that because I was eating the worst, most tasteless tomatoes and cucumbers ever while I was there. They were grown in greenhouses under metal halides with almost no sunlight since Iceland is dark for much of the winter. Maybe I should bring them with me if I have to go back LOL.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Ðank said:


> I am glad that your camera was fixed 66, you can continue to share(and now show) your results. This is very interesting...
> 
> EDIT: I have found another experiment with LEDs. Here
> 
> On page 7, the last post, is a link to a very recent LED test.


Thanks, I've seen a few experiments out there on the forums. It looks like most of them use luxeon stars so at least I'm doing something different. The thing about these lights is almost everything goes into photosynthetically active light while the luxeons produce mainly white light which plants don't use well. If anyone wants me to send me their luxeons I promise to try them out too LOL. I've built a rack for some tanks though and will be setting up a couple of ten gallon tanks soon to try these out against some t8s of similar wattage.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Disclaimer required by Solar Oasis: These lights were designed for growing terrestrial plants. They made me promise to say that.  

I need to get some pics of mine. I had them cut down a bar so it would fit all three clusters over a 20-inch wide, 14 gallon bowfront to keep the light in the tank. I set them up in the place of a dual 36 watt fixture and put a single 36 watt fixture behind it to keep some level of visible light available. 
I've noticed 3 things: 

 No heat. The fixture I installed them in is absolutely cool.

 The level of light is greatly increased if I have both lights on together, just the LED is *VERY* dim to the eye, but the LED seems to multiply the white light from the PC and make it brighter when they are on together.

:hihi: Foreground plants that were doing ok in this tank with 3x36 watt PC lighting are flourishing under the mix of LED and PC. This is only a week and a couple days but I'm already enthusiastic. The LED is positioned about 18 inches above the substrate.

I'm using the second bar I bought as a grow light for an emersed set up so this is my only aquarium set up at the moment. I'm making plans to have them cut down another bar or two for ten gallon tanks. The second biggest selling point for me is going to be the energy savings. I was running 3x36 watt bulbs over this tank, I'm down to the one and the LED bar. The bar is rated at 6 watts, so I'm down by 66 watts from before. The light might pay for itself in three years or so. :thumbsup: 

Three years is a reasonable amount of time if you figure I've been running several AHSupply fixtures for five or six years now.

Edited 2/28/2006: I found out that the LEDs use 2 watts per cluster, so the bar is 6 watts not 2 watts like I previously thought.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

66 north, and SCMurphy, thanks for the updates, Please keep them and the photos coming. 

Can't wait to see what this will do to the WPG rule.
"according to the Planted Tank Forum tests of 2006, you should have about 1 LED watt per 7 gallons"


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I started a thread for my LED tank.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/26464-seans-led-growlights.html#post227347


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

This is great news for me Sean....and now there are two. I'll be really interested to see how your tank does. As I mentioned I will be setting up an experiment soon now that I've built a rack for my tanks. However, in the meantime I have inadvertantly done a small, poorly designed, experiment by being really busy this past week. I actually didn't have the LED lights on over my 90 gallon last week and noticed a decline in my ludwigia inclinata, one of the wimpier plants I keep. I'm going to keep the ruby grow bars on this week to see if there's a change, pics will come over the week.

Here's my ludwigia which was LED-less for a week, in this pic I've had the ruby grow bars on it all day and more importantly I haven't seen a bubble like that on it since the last time the LEDs were on. When things are good for it has much bigger brighter leaves so hopefully we will see some changes. What do you guys think...a pic every couple of days?










and with the power compacts off, LED's only


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

*66_North*: I couldn't help but notice, in both the visible and IR pictures, that every 3rd LED in the outermost two circles seems to be different. To your eye, are they a different color, or a different dispersion angle?

Enjoying the pics and progress, thanks.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

The cluster is made up of a bunch of different LED's so if you see a difference it is there. Whether it is color or dispersion angle I don't know and I'm not going to worry about it, you really can't look at the lights when they are on, they 'feel' brighter then they look. All you can see when they are off is a cluster of colorless LED bubs.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

SCMurphy said:


> The cluster is made up of a bunch of different LED's so if you see a difference it is there. Whether it is color or dispersion angle I don't know and I'm not going to worry about it, you really can't look at the lights when they are on, they 'feel' brighter then they look. All you can see when they are off is a cluster of colorless LED bubs.


Sean, it appears you have the Standard series product, whereas 66_North has the Professional. The spectrum and LEDs differ between the two.

So my question still stands to 66_North.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Actually I have the 2006 profesional model.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

SCMurphy said:


> Actually I have the 2006 profesional model.


Hmm, strange. I don't see the blue LEDs in your photos.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

DarkCobra said:


> *66_North*: I couldn't help but notice, in both the visible and IR pictures, that every 3rd LED in the outermost two circles seems to be different. To your eye, are they a different color, or a different dispersion angle?
> 
> Enjoying the pics and progress, thanks.


Ouch, just burnt out my retinas looking, yes every third one on the outside appears to be more of an orange-reddish colour. Honestly, I haven't really seen anything like it in other LED bulbs. Mine say version 8.7 on the top the them.

Here's a pic of how they look on my hood next to the PC's that are inside ah supply reflectors. The top is a 55 watt 6500k eiko bulb, the middle is obviously the LEDs, and the bottom is a GE9325k.









Just to let you know the LEDs aren't actually mounted to the canopy yet, I just put them on top of the glass. They create almost no heat so it doesn't matter.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

66 north said:


> Ouch, just burnt out my retinas looking, yes every third one on the outside appears to be more of an orange-reddish colour.


Hehe, sorry about that, and appreciate you checking. That color would suggest that they're also hitting the Chlorophyll B red absorption peak. Interesting.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

The LED clusters hit or come very close to the Chlorophyll B blue and red peaks and the Chlorophyll A red peak. They miss the Chlorophyll A blue peak.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Here is one of the new shoots which has appeared over the last 2 days, there are several.

Pic under all light PC's and LEDs








Under the LEDs only, this part of the plant is directly under the beam.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

One thing I was dying to put up when my camera was broken, and have now seen several times, was a pic of my sunset hygro. I just hacked it down recently and the stem closest to the LED beam is always the first to realigned itself with the lights and then, as you can see, turn red/pink. Some of this probably has to do with the GE9325k above, but not all because the stems further from the LED haven't done this. I took this pic a few days ago and now this stem has grown much taller than those not under the LED.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

This just in....the plants still appear to be liking the LEDs

The sunset hygro continues to redden directly under the LEDs










This stem is directly under the LEDs and as you can see from this pic it has grown substantially more than the rest of the stems.











Now this is something I've seen 3 times by now so I don't think it's a coincidence. My echinodorus "red special" keeps throwing out plantlets and each time a runner hits an LED cluster is puts out some leaves.












Just to show you, this is a pic with the compacts off, as you can see this planlet is being blasted by the LEDs it seems to have "chosen" to be under.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

No updated pics but I just thought this was an interesting link.

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/print/1293


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Check this out too, gives you an idea of what the mix of reds and blues can do to growth.











Also a short article explaining this experiment a bit more. DAP stands for "days after planting" by the way.

http://rtreport.ksc.nasa.gov/techreports/94report/lsf/ls04.html


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Just for the more scientifically-minded here is a link to another article, it takes a minute for the PDF to load.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/94/5/691


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

The LEDs are bright- but does it have the intensity to bring out deep red colors?


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Marc said:


> The LEDs are bright- but does it have the intensity to bring out deep red colors?


Marc, how do you mean, "to bring out deep red colors"? Do you mean for viewing the plants or just how the plants grow reddish, i.e. _Limnophilia aromatica_ being starved for NO3? 

The LED lights turn my endlers into little glow fish when they are under them, but the plants don't reflect this color red. The plants however grow wonderfully under the lights and they reflect the reds from the PC lighting I have for viewing the tank. Does that answer your question?

Another report that has some interesting information can be found here:
http://rtreport.ksc.nasa.gov/techreports/2003report/600/605.html


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## Solace (Feb 12, 2006)

SCMurphy said:


> The LED lights turn my endlers into little glow fish when they are under them,


New species of fish... Glowing endlers


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Marc said:


> The LEDs are bright- but does it have the intensity to bring out deep red colors?


I believe they do help. I have some ludwigia repens which reaches out under the LEDs and grows bright red, more red then the rest that is under the 6500k pcs. I just did a major pruning so it may be a while before I can post a pic of this but L. repens does grow like crazy for me.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

I guess i'm trying to find out what the ideal goal is for using an LED set up like this.

I can see that LEDs are really bright but does it have the intensity to bring out reds in plants? For example running 2 x 55 watt bulbs versus 1 x 96 watt bulb. Running 2 X 55 can be very bright but the intensity doesn't compare to a single 96 watt bulb.

Limiting no3 isn't the only way to bring reds out- intense lighting will also accomplish the same.

I'd like to see some pictures of the Repens- they are my favorite plant!


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Marc, 

I was not saying that limiting NO3 is the only way to bring out reds, I wanted to know if you meant the way the plants grow or the effect the lighting has on how your eyes see the plants. "Bring out the reds" has several connotations and I wanted to give you the answer you were looking for. 

The LED's are very bright, to the plants. They aren't very bright to us, which is why you shouldn't stare at them, you don't realize you are hurting your eyes, in fact you kind of wonder why your eyes feel like you are looking into a MH bulb when the LEDs just aren't that bright. 

Because the clusters are mostly red, obviously red plants look red(der) under them. Green plants look brownish. To make the green plants look nice you have to add a white light source, hence the PC bulb I have over my tank. Now, do red plants grow redder under the LEDs? I can't say yet. So far everything is growing and looking very healthy, I am hoping for the best of all worlds. 

What is the goal:

My goals are to grow healthy plants, to save on electricity, and to reduce heat output from my lights. With six planted aquaria (including two 75's a 65 and a 56) in my basement I get a lot of heat from my lights which is nice in the winter but drives the air conditioning cost through the roof in the summer. These lights would be a nice alternative if they work out.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Sean- I do hope you have good results with the LEDs particularly if they are intense enough to bring out nice red colors in plants. 

I like the whole idea of using LEDs because they are small and can be easily used in a fixture or bring in more light to a specific area of the tank.

Imagine a whole fixture running only LEDs- You would have a nice sleek thin fixture. That would be very appealing.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

To see how the lights perform alone I set up a tank over the weekend, the substrate is 50% turface and 50% regular gravel, I have dosed with PMDD and excel, and it has a quickfilter filled with filter floss for water movement. A couple of days ago the water had cleared up so I put in a clipping of ludwigia repens along with a few others. I figure using repens should indicate that these lights are intense enough to have leaves grow red. We'll see how it goes, if the repens grows at it's usual rate I might have an updated photo later this week.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Why not add some (cheap, common) white LEDs to the setup?

Shouldn't hurt the plants, and it would make it more attractive to us human viewers.

Sort of combining this setup with what was done somewhere else with Luxeons.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Wasserpest said:


> Why not add some (cheap, common) white LEDs to the setup?
> 
> Shouldn't hurt the plants, and it would make it more attractive to us human viewers.
> 
> Sort of combining this setup with what was done somewhere else with Luxeons.


Personally, I'm not that talented.  I wonder what Gomer would charge to do that.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Why not add some (cheap, common) white LEDs to the setup?
> 
> Shouldn't hurt the plants, and it would make it more attractive to us human viewers.
> 
> Sort of combining this setup with what was done somewhere else with Luxeons.


This is just a test to isolate what these lights can do since I've already been using them in combination with power compacts on my other tank. It sounds strange saying it but my goal here is not to make the tank look nice, just to grow some plants. Maybe I could add some white LEDs in the future but after finding out what the ruby grow bars do alone.

I think the addition of white LEDs is where I can see things going with this technology. Just think we could get the benefit of a nicely lit tank, and great growth with a small fraction of the wattage and heat. As a bonus I've noticed they create a 'ripple effect' now that I'm using them on their own.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

What size is the tank and how many of the LED Grow bars did you put over it?

Isn't this the experiment Wasser asked me for in the other thread, LED's alone?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

SCMurphy said:


> Isn't this the experiment Wasser asked me for in the other thread, LED's alone?


Correct... IMO the only way to determine if todays LEDs are usable for growing plants. Adding a PC lamp to the setup makes all conclusions worthless (just IMO... could be way off). From that point of view, this is the experiment that needs be done. And I understand that this is not to make the tank look nice... just ignore my "white LED" comment.

Looking forward to results on this one... something amazing, like 1 Watt of LEDs = 10 Watts of fluorescent lighting.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I took the white LED question as a 'future posing' and went to the people who make the LED Bar and asked. When I have an answer back from them I'll let you know what they say.

Here's what they say:


> We've done some work on this and had decided that LEDs are not up to the task yet. The problems related to using LEDs for white light fall into several categories, cost, power consumption, color, and performance. At this time the only LEDs capable of outputting enough light energy, with a good color, are the Luxeon Stars. However, these LEDs are very expensive even at wholesale cost, the actually use a lot more power than people think, and still don't hold a candle to a cheap fluorescent tube.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

SCMurphy said:


> What size is the tank and how many of the LED Grow bars did you put over it?


The tank is 28x14x14, it's an odd sized scratched up freebie that I picked up a few years ago. The substrate, which I forgot to mention previously has thin layer of peat pellets in addition to the turface and gravel. This means that the lights are approximately 12" from the surface of the gravel. I am using 2 ruby grow bars that are on twelve hours a day. My heater is a freebie from a couple of weeks ago and seems to be a bit wonky, swinging from high to low temps, I might have to change that soon.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Update, the plant clippings have grown a bit. I did however have to replant with weights since they didn't stay down so they lost a day or two under the lights. The heater was acting a bit odd too. To get neutral light these pics were taken under a normal warm white T8 with the LEDs pushed to the back. Just to repeat, these plants have been under the LEDs exclusively since the last update, with a bit of excel and PMDD added.

Here is the sunset hygro. the top leaves are new, and the second ones down were about that small when I put this stem in. You may notice that the leaves are turning pink as they should under good light. 









Here is the L. repens, again there has been some growth and the top leaves are turning red, they were totally green before.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

Update from mars, the plants are still growing and reddening. I'll let the pictures do the talking

The sunset hygro is getting nice and pink despite a couple of flagfish attacks.











If you look near the back you can see a new branch is growing in, and the original stem is growing against the substrate indicating to me that the intensity is more than adequate. If you can't see it, the new branch is also pink on top.











The L. repens has a some more new leaves as well, they're not totally red, but they have that hue.












Back on earth (the 90 gallon planted) these lights are still acting very suspiciously.

This is my rotala rotundifolia, they are in the middle of the tank (the middle 4 or so inches width wise), sort of a higher midground plant in my tank. This photo is a side view of my tank. These stems are directly under an LED cluster, and certainly do not recieve any other DIRECT lighting. Notice how they are growing horizontilly and growing pinkish-red, also notice at their tips how they are becoming green again, this coincides with limit of the LED light beam.










I include this picture simply because I'm convinced these lights are the real deal. I can now say this happens everytime I cut down my sunset hygro, the stems directly under the LEDs grow up the fastest and pinkest. Notice all the other stems of this plant down below, they are growing fine but much slower directly under a 3 month old GE 9325k bulb.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

I worked out the theoretical costs of running two of the ruby grow bars (12 watts total)in comparison to two 55 watt power compacts. I chose this particular comparison since in my experience I think the resulting plant growth between these two types of lighting systems is comparable, perhaps there is a little less light spread with the LEDs but that can be discussed later. The comparison assumes that the bulbs are run 10hrs per day, for 10 years (the LED bulbs have this lifespan). Also, this comparison assumes a cost of 0.20 per kwh, as is the case at Southern California Edison. Feel free to make and corrections. https://www.sce.com/forms/ApplianceEnergyEstimator.aspx

Power compacts (2x55 watt, 110 watts, 10hrs per day)

$1.68 per week
x52= $87.36 per year
x10 years = $873.60

Now I factor in bulb replacement every 2 years, at a modest $40 for both bulbs.

$40x5= $200

So in total when you add electricity and bulb replacement over ten years
$873.60 + $200= $1073.60


For these LEDs (12 watts total)

$0.17 per week
x52 =$8.84 per year
x10= $88.40

no bulb replacement

So in total there is a very significant difference in cost over ten years. According to my calculations it's exactly $985.20, and I think that probably justifies the initial higher price of getting one of these LED lighting systems.

$1073.60 - $88.40 = $985.20


Just to go a little further a 2x55w kit from ahsupply costs $64.99 + $40 (for 2 bulbs) = $104.99

Two ruby grow bars cost $319.98

So the initial difference in cost is $214.99

Factoring this difference into the previous total still puts the LEDs ahead by $770.21

$985.20 - $214.99 = $770.21


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## Stan the Man (Dec 12, 2005)

Hey 66 north,

Great post! Very informative. I've also been following your thread on Pricenetwork.ca with interest.

Stan.


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