# !URGENT! Ammonia 8ppm! Nitrite 5ppm! Nitrate 40ppm! OVERNIGHT



## |GTO| (Oct 9, 2006)

Don't quote me here but I am pretty sure the capsules do not release ammonia. 

It is most likely from moving plants around and messing with the substrate. 1 dead fish can release a lot of ammonia as well


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

|GTO| said:


> Don't quote me here but I am pretty sure the capsules do not release ammonia.
> 
> It is most likely from moving plants around and messing with the substrate. 1 dead fish can release a lot of ammonia as well


no plants were moved that day, I just felt like I should have added in some capsules. Nitrate spike from 5-10 to like 40ppm overnight seems also impossible, but that could be the nitrite messing with the results.

It seems weird how both times I placed capsules in, I had a spike this high. My tank has been stable until both times I put in capsules. I used tweezers so I didn't really disturb anything..

It's also been a while since I first recieved hem and put them in dnow


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## |GTO| (Oct 9, 2006)

Not sure then it could be that. I put a capsule in my 4 gallon under a crypt and didn't have a spike in anything. Maybe you didn't put them low enough in the substrate and you are getting major nutrient leeching into the water column


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

There may be a few that slipped out of the tweezers close to the surface of the gravel, the gelatin disintegrates pretty fast lol.

I'll see how things look in an hour or so


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Oofda. Ok, lets take this 1 at a time. The capsules did not cause any noticeable ammonia in your system, particularly this much. If you put the whole package in the tank, just floating, it wouldn't do this. They release the nitrogen over long term, not in one dose. I promise. 

Second, did you get liquid? If you did, how heavily planted/lights/co2? how much are you dosing. It contains Urea, but again, you'd have to grossly overdose to begin noticing ammonia. Plants snatch up ammonia very quickly. Urea is (NH2)2CO, Ammonia is NH3. 

You were treating for ich. From the start you had an ammonia reading from the start and there is no way your tank made it through a cycle in the middle of this. Something else very fishy going on. ONe thing to remember, when a fish dies, the decomposition starts right away. They produce a great deal of ammonia, Particularly in a smaller tank. 


Lastly, test kits are horrible inaccurate, and if you do not calibrate them the readings mean very little. Saying anything caused 8ppm of ammonia when they are not calibrated is impossible. The tank might have been cycled to start... but you doubled the bio load, then started dealing with disease. 

I assure you if used properly, no rootmedic product would ever do this. I literally overdose my tanks to the level of irresponsible and have had no deaths in over a year.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Also, you mention that you DID move plants around last night. You are likely dealing with some organics to boot. You need to let your tank stabilize. You say it was... but there is no way in 5 days it is magically all better from your first problem.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

Doesn't take much for a small tank to go south quick. Then add to it the tank doesn't seem to be cycled/matured yet.


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## diveshooter (Jan 20, 2010)

What medicine did you use to treat for ich? Some medicines will wipe out the beneficial biological bacteria in your filter.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Ditto: small tanks crash so fast!

I would keep up the water changes. Use a dechlor that locks up ammonia. (Prime is one)
If you can find Nitrospiros bacteria these are the actual work horses in the nitrogen cycle. Add some to the tank. This will help with ammonia and nitrite, and will turn these into nitrate. It will be sold in a bottle, probably refrigerated. You can store it in the fridge and add some when the medication is done, and when you add new fish. Do not waste your money on any other 'bacteria in a bottle'. 

The water changes will help with the Ich problem, too, by removing a lot of the Ich that falls to the floor of the tank to breed.


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks justin for the response 

Nothing has died in the tank since the 2 cory cats so nothing is decomposing anymore, levels were fine before and after last nights water change, and woke up to this. I work for a whiles longer then ill be able to update better. I apologize for the quick conclusion that it was the rootmedic, I really love the product. I am using the complete dosing kit justin, and that hasn't affected anything but my plants  

This is really frustrating, it seems like this tank is never going to balance out nd staba?ize but im doing everything as i should be. Daily 50% water changes (ich), using prime, 

Im just going to assume i really released something from the gravel somehow each time. But that much ammonia? That's nuts!

Nitrites have been peaking for a week it seems, ammonia has been going down but my tap water brings it back up closer to .50ppm ammonia, which i also assume is causing the high nitrites once it gets processed. It should be any day that i start seeing less nitrites :/ 

I need a larger tank,


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## zjones (Mar 24, 2010)

Sorry have to ask the obvious but did you remember to add the declor with any water changes?


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

Yep, im 100% sure. I use 1mL per 5 gallons, 2x normal dose of seachem prime.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

ridethespiral said:


> Thanks justin for the response
> 
> Nothing has died in the tank since the 2 cory cats so nothing is decomposing anymore, levels were fine before and after last nights water change, and woke up to this. I work for a whiles longer then ill be able to update better. I apologize for the quick conclusion that it was the rootmedic, I really love the product. I am using the complete dosing kit justin, and that hasn't affected anything but my plants
> 
> ...


If you really want to cycle that tank, I would not add anymore live stock and stop the water changes until the cycle completes. Especially if your water is adding more ammonia in. It'll never cycle at that rate.


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

Don't worry, i haven't for a while, and I'm not adding any more live stock from now on.

By not changing the water im allowing the nitrite to spike to dangerous levels.
at 8pH+, nitrite is near harmless, but my tank has been getting a little more acidic (7.6pH)

Total ammonia was about 1ppm still when I got home, so I did another 5 gallon water change. Free ammonia stayed at under 0.05ppm accoring to seachem ammoalert 

I wont change any more water if you can reassure me the nitrites aren't going to kill anyone. I had my feelings the constant addition of ammonia from fish and tap water is creating abnormal amounts of nitrite as well. This whole mess has been going on since the first ammonia spike (the 8ppm one, not the .5 i saw after having the betta and all 6 corys) Nitrtites and ammonia were at decent levels before the first spike. Nitrites have been really high since doing water changes, before the first spike I was using aquarium salt, and didn't change the water every day.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Ammonia and nitrite levels _need _to spike during the cycling process in order for the cycle to complete. While it is true water changes will reduce these levels, you are in reality delaying the completion of the cycle. Your tank will cycle much quicker if you do not perform a water change until the ammonia and nitrite levels drop to zero, and the nitrate level starts rise.

As far as reassuring you that the nitrites won't kill anyone, I cannot without being ludicrous. Exposing a fish to the stress, water changes, salt, introducing too many fish at one time and the ammonia at 8 ppm is more dangerous than the nitrites. 

Get some hornwort, duckweed or other nutrient sponge to help suck up some of those excessive nutrients. 

In the meantime, stop trying to look for things to blame other than this simple fact: Your tank is NOT YET cycled. It'll be much easier on you if you accept this advice many have given you and focus on this before worrying about the rest. 

If you loose fish, it sucks, but wouldn't it be better to loose a few fish than to keep killing dozens of fish due to an non-cycled tank? Plus, fish cannot fight off diseases such as ich in a tank with poor water conditions. I would feed sparingly, stop adding new fish and let the tank cycle.

Other than that, I have no more advice to give. Perhaps others may shed light on the situation that completely disagrees with me. The bottom line is you need to do the research and draw your own conclusions.


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## Finalplay10 (Jun 29, 2010)

Do you use ADA AS ? I do and find that when I disturb my substrate the ammonia levels rise quickly. It takes quite awhile for it to stop leeching ammonia into the water column and moving the substrate seems to prove that u have to wait a while more before its done leeching. My tanks been cycling (fish free) for about a month and half to two months now and I'm still getting ammonia readings. My plants are thriving but I don't dare put anything else in. Hope this helps.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

That ammoalert in tank monitor is garbage... I agree with sewingalot though. You just need to slow down and let your tank establish itself. You keep changing things and treating this and adding this and in the end all you have is a continuous new tank. It is hard to just leave things be, particularly in the beginning, but sometimes you have to.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

There is nothing like time to fix problems associated with a new tank. It just sucks that in this case the fish have to suffer though it.


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

Alright everyone, I appreciate the help. I have a feeling the ich has either been killed off by now or i just cannot see it. My substrate is just a normal acrylic coated gravel.

Justin, why do you say the ammoalert is garbage? I know for sure it is accurate, but it has shown me both times my ammonia shot up, which i probably wouldn't have tested for, since i've been worrying about nitrites. 

sewingalot, trust me i have done a crapload of research, spent atleast 100 hours plus reading. Sometimes when the results contradict what should have happened, you need someone to tell you what you're doing wrong. In this case everyone told me at first to do water changes everyday


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

The only reason I would have suggested you do a water change is to get the salinity back down to zero for the sake of the cories. However, in order to cycle a tank, I would let it sit and only do top-offs. You can do water changes and this does remove the toxins from the water, but it takes longer. Adding nutrient sponge plants will help this process as they love ammonia. In my experience, less is more in the beginning. If your tank was heavily planted, then we may be talking a different story. However, this being a nano tank and the fact you've recently dealt with an illness, I am suggesting the slow and steady route.

In the end, I suggest you take all of our opinions with a grain of salt and decide for yourself if we are correct or not. After all, we are hobbyist just like yourself and not always 100% right. :biggrin:


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

sewingalot said:


> The only reason I would have suggested you do a water change is to get the salinity back down to zero for the sake of the cories. However, in order to cycle a tank, I would let it sit and only do top-offs. You can do water changes and this does remove the toxins from the water, but it takes longer. Adding nutrient sponge plants will help this process as they love ammonia. In my experience, less is more in the beginning. If your tank was heavily planted, then we may be talking a different story. However, this being a nano tank and the fact you've recently dealt with an illness, I am suggesting the slow and steady route.
> 
> In the end, I suggest you take all of our opinions with a grain of salt and decide for yourself if we are correct or not. After all, we are hobbyist just like yourself and not always 100% right. :biggrin:


Thanks  its nice to see support.
my tank really isn't that heavily planted yet, in a month once all my ludwigia repens fills in (1/4th tank is going to be a nice little forest of ludwigia and moneywort)

As for water changes, im going to only do them if i see the fish in distress, dosing prime every 24-48hrs should keep most of it locked up. Maybe a 25% change every 48hrs is all it will need. 

Ammonia was still around 1ppm, nitrite test im really having trouble telling shades after 1ppm, so its anywhere from 1ppm-5ppm. What is the ratio of conversion ammonia to NO3? If anyone has a rough estimate, it would help me understand the control of nitrite until the tank finishes cycling.

:crossfingers:

Edit: found the equation for ammonia to nitrite to nitrate


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## iliketogolf (Feb 7, 2010)

Why don't you add tetra safestart to get some additional bacteria in the tank?


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

iliketogolf said:


> Why don't you add tetra safestart to get some additional bacteria in the tank?


Cannot find it for the life of me, and money is restricted till friday  then i work all weekend. Next chance to buy it would be mondays if I could find it.

Is it biospira and TSS that are legitimate bac in a bottle?


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## iliketogolf (Feb 7, 2010)

ridethespiral said:


> Cannot find it for the life of me, and money is restricted till friday  then i work all weekend. Next chance to buy it would be mondays if I could find it.
> 
> Is it biospira and TSS that are legitimate bac in a bottle?


I know my LFS uses TSS and i've used it myself with some success


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

I see biospira has a new formula that doesn't need to be refridgerated. I could maybe express ship some, and hope it gets here fast. I almost want to just wait and see the cycle complete itself. It should stabalize shortly if I stop delaying the process. Ammonia was already dropping low, nitrites are peaking, and there are nitrates showing up slowly


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