# Trouble with my java fern.



## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

Java fern shouldn't be buried. The roots need to be in the water. Java is usually tied to driftwood, rocks, or decorations.


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

As long as the rhizome is out of the substrate, it's should do fine. My java fern's roots get really long and when I pull the plant out, its attached to small chunks of dw, the root has adhered to a lot of sand; as if it was rooting itself.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

ya, i made sure the rhizome was in the water. only the roots were buried


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

so... what do I do about by ferns? i don't think i can keep dosing my ferts, because my cherrie shrimp refused to come out after dosing until i put some activated carbon in the tank to take the ferts out..


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

blueberry said:


> ... plants came as separate leaves wraped together in a lead weight. so i plucked the plantlets off the leaves and planted them in the gravel with the only the roots in the gravel.


Is the rhizome above the gravel line? Are you familiar with java fern?


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## jsuereth (Dec 21, 2010)

How high is your lighting and what type of substrate?

I havent dosed ferts, besides extra fish food, for months and its doing great. My substrate is flourite with root tabs from six months ago.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

yes the rhizomes are all above the gravel line, no Im not familiar with any aquatic plants

i just have 9 watt florescent (its kinda old), 5 gallon tank

and i just have normal blue coloured aquarium gravel

edit: and i have like 12 ferns in there


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

I'm not a fan of unnatural coloured substrates, but it doesn't matter for the java fern. I use tahitian moon sand, no nutrients what so ever. From what I've read and what I experienced, JF doesn't take in nutrients from the roots; if they do, then it would be very minimal. I cut all the roots of my JF before I tie them to rocks/dw. They still do great.

What are you dosing? How much?


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

Im dosing about 12 drops of the stuff, that’s about 1.2 ml

its sera florena, and it says no nitrate or phosphorus contained in it

i think its just trace elements

I'v only dosed for a day or 2 though, but my shrimp all went into hiding after i dosed it


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

anyone?


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

I think your light is too low IMO. Try a higher watt or plant grow bulb. If you have a hood on your tank, they sell plant grow bulbs that will fit on both sides. I don't use any ferts and mine grows great.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

i though java ferns were really low light...

also i don't thnk my tank light can be replaced...


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## jsuereth (Dec 21, 2010)

blueberry said:


> Im dosing about 12 drops of the stuff, that’s about 1.2 ml
> 
> its sera florena, and it says no nitrate or phosphorus contained in it
> 
> ...


Try to find something with phosphorus. I had crazy algae problems when attempting to grow java fern solo in gravel substrate. Switching to flourite or other high cec substrate is definitely worthwhile, although temporarily stressful for fish.


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## Disco Dan (Mar 17, 2011)

I was under the impression that Java Fern took in nutrients from the bog wood it is attached to through the roots. 

Try raising the Fern closer to the surface - A large tall section of bog wood with ferns just below the surface on it do very well in my tank (high light though). They do appreciate co2 blown onto their leaves.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Could you post some pictures of them?

Where did you get them (bought from an LFS, here on the forum, online somewhere else)?

It may be that they're just still transitioning to your tank. Or they may have been killed in shipping, if they were mailed to you during a freeze, or they may have been grown emersed.... lots of different possibilities.

What's the bioload in your tank?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Even for java fern that 9watt bulb is incredibly weak and growth will be very slow. The existing leaves will probably not make it through the transition. I think your best bet is to cut off most of the existing leaves this will allow the plant to channel more energy to new leaves and allow more light to hit the rhizome.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

houseofcards said:


> I think your best bet is to cut off most of the existing leaves this will allow the plant to channel more energy to new leaves and allow more light to hit the rhizome.


I would agree with you... except the OP said there's only 1 leaf per rhizome (which is part of why I was questioning the source of the plants, b/c I personally wouldn't send out only one leaf on a rhizome...)

I think a 9 watt bulb may be OK for a 5gal tank if it's a tube or U-shaped bulb. Probably not if it's a spiral, though. And sounds like the bulb probably does need replacing.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> I would agree with you... except the OP said there's only 1 leaf per rhizome (which is part of why I was questioning the source of the plants, b/c I personally wouldn't send out only one leaf on a rhizome...)
> 
> I think a 9 watt bulb may be OK for a 5gal tank if it's a tube or U-shaped bulb. Probably not if it's a spiral, though. And sounds like the bulb probably does need replacing.


I didn't see that. That first post is kinda confusing, but if the leaves are all brownish, if that is the case, I don't think they have any chance so I would still cut them all off and take my chances with just the rhizome. I did this a few times with Bolbitis and I grew some incredible pieces, but again that was with co2 and good light.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

oh, sorry for the confusion. it wasn't one leaf per rhizome, mostly it was just leaves with no rhizome, all the leaves had plenty of plant-lets on them, so I plucked just plucked the plant-lets off and planted them. they have been there for 4 months. it is still sprouting plenty of new leaves but they all grow and curl inwards and turn brownish after awhile. I bought it from my lfs, its called M&J aquarium if you happen to know it.

the bioload of my tank is very little. just 5 cherry shrimp and the other random bugs that grow(cyclops and stuff). i also have tons of algae but the algae isn't particularly green either.. i see plenty of poop floating around though

do you think putting some fish food in is enough for phosposus

i will try to take a pic tomorrow, because my tank light is off right now 

i will also try to find a replacement bulb for my tank,
it is a U shaped one


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Oh- leaves without rhizomes are doomed from the get-go, so you might as well toss those once they go brown and stop throwing plantlets! Glad you at least got some plantlets off of them... though plantlets are pretty slow-growing so you'll be waiting a long time for those to do much unless you do upgrade your lighting and nutrient setup.

I think your tank would be a good candidate for a DIY CO2 setup, either with your current lighting or an upgrade.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

oh, no, no, i already threw the leaves out, I just have the plantlets now,

the plantlets are growing fast, just not well..

i tried diy co2 a while ago, the plants did pearl, but i don't think it made the plant grow better.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Java ferns in general are so slow-growing that it's hard to notice growth. Best way for me to see growth in my low tech tanks is to compare pictures that are a few months apart.

In general, the more light, CO2, and ferts you give them (in the correct balance), the more quickly and lushly they will grow, though.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

i took a picture today, its kinda blurry though


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## Blue_Ram (Sep 6, 2010)

The plants look like they are doing ok. Not great but not bad also. Get rid of that blue rock gravel. There is no iron or any nutrients in those things. You need to get some substrate for plants if you are going to have the ferns grow in the substate like you have them. Since you are not doing any fert. dosing and no good substrate the plants don't have the nutrition they need to grow. Imagine if you only had water to feed on and no food.LOL.

I personally would get some driftwood and tie them on to that using some of that garden tie stuff. If you can get some ferts start to use them also. 

Also even if you had some good plants to start with, it takes a while to see some good growth. I just transplanted some well growing Java Ferns from one tank to another just last week. I don't expect to see good growth for another month or so. All plants need time to adjust to their new homes. 

And it looks like your plants are doing fair, but need a bit of food, ie ferts and maybe more light. CO2 will help also. Remember using all this it takes time for you to see improvement. 

Good luck and happy planting. Stay green :confused1: and keep the fish and shrimp smiling.


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## bonaparte (Feb 21, 2011)

I am not familiar with how Microsorum plantlets grow, but curling of new leaf growth can be caused by three things: a plant virus, pests or (sometimes) poor nutrients. Aquatic plants must have some pests, but I think that's unlikely in this case. If you up your fertilization and your ferns continue to have leaves that are still curling or rolled, it could be a virus. The only cure in that case is to destroy them and start over.


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## chaws (Apr 7, 2011)

Substrate or dirt, is the most important thing in a planted aquarium before light. You could grow a plant with substrate and low lighting quite easily in a micro. Your setup without substrate will only last a few months, even with high lighting. Unless all you're going to grow is moss?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IMO there's no reason at all to worry about substrate in a Java fern tank, since they're epiphytic.

To me everything in there looks pretty normal.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

ok, i will try to dose some ferts. i have a bottle of Sera Florena. i going to try dosing a little bit at first and then slowly up the dosage so i don't shock my shrimp. 

i will also try to get a some diy co2 going on.


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## bonaparte (Feb 21, 2011)

chaws said:


> Substrate or dirt, is the most important thing in a planted aquarium before light. ...


Actually, many aquatic plants need no substrate at all. Think of it as hydroponic gardening. While it's best to have a high quality substrate in a lot of cases, you can make up for a lack of humus with a good dosing regimen.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

ok, dosing was a bad, bad idea, i dosed 3 drops and then the next day my cherry shrimp droped her eggs...


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Just because your shrimps dropped the egg, it doesn't mean that it was due to the ferts. Alot of members here dose fertilizers and their shrimps are top notch.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

*yeah... but....*

yeah, but all the other shrimps turned a shade lighter, became less active and the one that droped the eggs had like practically no colour, like a ghost shrimp but not as transparent..


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

If you have a small piece of cured driftwood, take a pocket knife and cut a few slits in the wood. Take the plantlets and a toothpick, and just genlty jam the roots in the slits, just enough to keep the plants in place. This has worked well for me, and I have a piece of wood in my 10 gallon shrimp tank that has many plantlets growing on it. I'll try to get a pic and post it here once I get hold of the camera. Some of the plantlets will grow rather fast, but some will grow quite slow. Good luck!


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

how do i cure drift wood?

and why does putting it on driftwood make it grow better? i though java fern only absorb nutrients from the leaves


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

ok, i just did some research, and found that things like potassium and nitrates, are needed in the range of 10-20 ppm

and the other nutriunts such as iron, are needed in a concentration of about 0.02 ppm

so, i did a quick calculation, and found that a tiny drop of my fert(assumed to be about 0.1ml) would provide an iron concentration of about 0.04 ppm

and the other nutrents would be in concentrations of aboout 100-1000 times less.

so, why does the bottle say that i have to dose 5ml of the stuff for 5 g

my calculations:

ferric chloride= 0.89%

0.1mg of water * 0.89%= 0.00089 grams of ferric chloride

when added to 5 g tank.

ratio of water to ferric chloride is: 20000mg of water : 0.00089 grams of ferric chloride

1 million / 20000= 50

50 * 0.00089
= about 0.04 ppm


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

blueberry said:


> how do i cure drift wood?
> 
> and why does putting it on driftwood make it grow better? i though java fern only absorb nutrients from the leaves


To cure driftwood, I usually boil it for an hour or more IF it's mopani (african) driftwood and rinse it off in cooler aquarium water. If it's the other kind, which is usually malasian, 45 minutes of boiling will do the trick.

It really depends on how big the plantlets are. If they are still firmly attached to the mother plant, I would let them grow a little until they are loose. If they are already loosely hanging from the mother plant, you can goahead and pluck them off carefully and plant them on the driftwood.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

.. i only have plantlets right now... and they are all rather firmly attached to the gravel


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

The Java Fern in my 46g hi tech attatched to driftwood looks terrible and has made no progress at all. The Java Fern in my low-tech shrimp tank that has rooted itself in the Florite is growing like crazy. New leaves all over, beautiful green, plantlets all over, and growing taller. I'm baffled.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

is this fluorite as in calcuim fluoride?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

blueberry said:


> ok, i just did some research, and found that things like potassium and nitrates, are needed in the range of 10-20 ppm
> 
> and the other nutriunts such as iron, are needed in a concentration of about 0.02 ppm
> 
> ...


I think you're comparing apples to oranges. No way those levels are needed on low tech tanks. 

I'll say it again- if you want to get these java ferns growing more quickly, you'll need to raise your lighting and CO2. Those two factors are much more important at this point. You can provide all the other nutrients you want, but without those two it's a moot point.

Also, no matter how many nutrients you provide, Java ferns are simply very slow growing plants. If you want to watch some plants grow, get some faster growers like Hygrophila.



blueberry said:


> is this fluorite as in calcuim fluoride?


No, Flourite is a commercial planted tank substrate produced by Seachem.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

ok, ill try to do some diy co2,
[STRIKE]
and for the lighting,
do you think leds would be good?

im thinking of some white ones + some red and blue ones[/STRIKE]

EDIT: ok, leds are a really bad idea... much, much too expnisive for something that will actuually light the aqarium.. 

i dont think i can upgrade the watt of my flouresent though..


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## jsuereth (Dec 21, 2010)

You can always try seachem excell instead of diy co2. A bit of excell makes my fern start perling.


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## blueberry (Apr 3, 2011)

still, though,.. im not worryed about it growing slowly. its just that the leaves are growing really weird. i even hava few leaves that grow in the this weird crumpled shape, and is coloured like iceberg lettece. and practically all the other leaves are curved


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