# New 60 gal ... - High Tech - !!!!



## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Was up at LFS getting some bulkheads for the sump and they gave
me a good deal on a 36" 4x39W T-5 fixture by Wave-Point.

Of course it was full of marine bulbs so I also talked them into opening
it up and swapping bulbs out for me too. :thumbsup:

Has 
(2) - Wave-Point "sun-wave" bulbs which are a nice white 12,000k bulb
(1) - Current-USA 10,000k bulb
(1) - Current-USA "freshwater" bulb - this is a pink bulb like you see for freshwater plants.


30gal sump is pretty much done. Just need to get the bulkheads fitted.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

looks like you did a nice job when you built the stand. But I think it looks better without that canopy, it didn't match as well. The new fixture sounds like it was a good deal.


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## jnaz (Apr 12, 2009)

Your other light was going to supply around 3 watts per gallon and the new one will only be 2.6 per gallon. You are going to have to go toward the low light plants. 

How do you plan on cutting down on the oxygenation of the water caused by using a sump? Won't this counteract the CO2 injection?


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

jnaz said:


> Your other light was going to supply around 3 watts per gallon and the new one will only be 2.6 per gallon. You are going to have to go toward the low light plants.
> 
> How do you plan on cutting down on the oxygenation of the water caused by using a sump? Won't this counteract the CO2 injection?


You have to take the "watt per gallon" rule with a grain of salt.
The T5's put out more Lum's per watt than the PC's. Still plenty bright, maybe
even brighter than the "higher wattage" PC's would have been

Why would adding O2 mess with Co2 ?


I might ditch the light hood. Would make tank maintenance easier.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

El Sump-o is done.

Figured it out to be just under 30 gallons 18X18X24high
Gives me a massive evaporation reservoir and filtration system.

Figure it will have about 3-4 large canister filters worth of bio-media and
mechanical filtration, plus a 50% of tank volume sump.

Bulkhead fittings and plumbing in place to add a Fluval canister filter
to pump thru UV light, add even bio-media and have a place to put
carbon or other resin based water de-toxers if needed.

Start testing pump, tank overflow and standpipe tomorrow.
Get everything flowing right and the scaping should go quick.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That's a great looking stand. That wood looks great too.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

clwatkins10 said:


> That wood looks great too.


 Cherry plywood. ..... runs about $150 a sheet :icon_eek:


oh yeah, total cost to make the sump was about $130 including bulkhead fittings.
would probably cost $500 in LFS.


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

Looks good. if it were me.. I would paint the top rim of the tank black to match the stand more. I don't like the wood grain look up there. IMO it would make it look cleaner. 

Keep up the good work!


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Torpedobarb said:


> Looks good. if it were me.. I would paint the top rim of the tank black to match the stand more. I don't like the wood grain look up there. IMO it would make it look cleaner.
> 
> Keep up the good work!


I am going to use my matching top. It hides the upper rim.

Also adding a 24" 65W 10k Power Compact fixture I had in the closet in
the back corner of the aquarium and replaced one of the 12k T5 bulbs with a 6,700k.

Now will have
(1) 24" 65W 10k PC
(1) 36" 39W 12k T5
(1) 36" 39W 10k T5
(1) 36" 39W 6700k T5
(1) 36" 39W pink "plant" T5

Total Watts: 221 / 3.7w/gal

It's bright to say the least.



Also, cant say enough nice things about this Wave-Point T5
light fixture. EXCELLENT engineering. Whole thing is sealed with nice
glass cover, not some flimsy lexan. Included mounting legs are very
user friendly and infinitely adjustable

http://www.wave-point.com/Lighting_folder/FixtureMain.html


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

That is alot of light.. with alot of light there can be algae issues quickly if not cared for properly. co2, ferts etc.

I have a 216w catalina solar t5 fixture and it does extremely well for my tank I have a 10hr photoperiod with 5hr burst of 10K bulbs. the other bulbs are 6700K bulbs. close to 2.8 wpg or so. I have had no problems with growing anything. I think that one of the most important things to do is to have the lighting placed at the proper height over the tank to make sure that there is even distribution.

After I switched my fixture from the normal legs that come with it to a custom set of legs that put the fixture at 9" above the tank rim I noticed a difference with plant growth. everything was getting light evenly and becoming more healthy. 

just my experience.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Well I've been playing around with my Durso standpipe all evening
trying to get super quiet flow and have made a few discoveries.

No matter how much I messed with the air hole on top of the pipe it
was always sucking a ton of air cause it could out flow the pump
so water is falling all the way down the pipe to the sump.

It was incredibly noisy and totally unacceptable. From I could find on-line
the air in the pipe is normal though.


After much tweeking and playing around I found if I close the overflow pipes
ball valve to just barely match the output of the pump, the drain pipe fills
with water and ALL the bubbles go way and the whole system is bone quiet.

All you here is pump, otherwise you would not think any water was flowing.


Here's the problem. If the ball valve is just the slightest bit off the water 
level in the pipe will slowly fall and you get air again. Or its not draining
enough and the aquarium starts to overfill.


Solution I have come up with is to close the main standpipe ball valve to
where it just barely will not keep up with the return pump. This will create
the slightest trickle of extra water over filling the tank

I will drill another hole in the back of the aquarium for a secondary overflow
pipe that will just have a simple upturned 90 elbow that will allow the extra
trickle to overflow down it's own small pipe that will dump into the top of the sump.
Its flow should be so minuscule that it will not make any noise on its own.


Right now the standpipe ball valve is dialed in "just right" and matching the
pump so I may see how this holds up for now and let run a few days while 
I'm around to watch.


Really is cool how quiet I got it. Just a slight hum from the Mag-5 pump.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Been running for little over an hour now.
Everything seems stabilized and happy.

Whole thing is as quiet as any canister filter I've ever had :thumbsup:


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## demosthenes (Aug 23, 2008)

wow, looking good so far. i cant believe you built that stand! thats awesome! 

i like how much of this youve done yourself, itll be cool to see how this tank progresses. haha, whenever i DIY something, it always end up with either a LOT of hot glue or a LOT of leaks, and then i have to go buy the Eheim or Fluval version of whatever i was trying to make in the first place. not to say yours will do that though, haha, yours looks fantastic!


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Well not sure how I got this working but its been running all night
with rock steady water levels in the overflow


The Durso standpipe is in full siphon mode with top hole completely sealed
with small piece of tape.

I closed the valve at the bottom of standpipe and it seems to have matched
pump output perfect.

Didnt think I could get the inflow and outflow balanced perfectly like
this, but seems to be working fine.


Time for some scaping :redface:

Got the ADA Aquasoil already and wood is soaking in big plastic tub now.
Think I found nice rock in the back yard for the tank too :thumbsup:


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Drew up small picture to explain overflow design I figured out.


Main drain will closed until it just cant keep up with return pump
99%

Water will rise in overflow box to an open tube at top.
The remaining 1% of return water the main drain is not handling
will trickle down this pipe and into the top of sump.

Dialing back the main ball valve so that the the small overflow pipe
is only getting a tiny bit of water should keep the whole system bubble
free, whisper quiet and fool proof.

No Durso stand pipes with holes to be adjusted or any of that junk.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

Whoah! I bet that's gonna look great! It looks expensive. Check out my aquarium journal.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Vladdy said:


> Whoah! I bet that's gonna look great! It looks expensive. Check out my aquarium journal.


All materials to make the sump and the return pump cost
same as an Ehiem canister filter ..................


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

4 bags of ADA Aquasoil later and main scaping is done.
Pretty happy with it. 

Might add a small rock or two in center or dig out
some Aquasoil and make center valley little more pronounced.

Filter is running with couple of bags of Purigan in it.
If clears up tonight, I'll post some better pics.

Be about week or so now before get plants in there to finish
filter and pump arrangement and let water stabilize.

Let me know what you think.
Kinda hard to see right now and no plants, but does it look balanced to yall ?


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

I bet that's gonna look awesome. Check out my journal.


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## chunkylover817 (Apr 25, 2008)

hehe nice ideas, why buy the grass if u can just paint it!lol, if i were to add anything to ur tank, it would definitely be placing some java fern needle/narrow on the top left, just and idea


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Is all the wood of same variety or different? Different varieties of hardscape in the same tank can be distracting based on what type of scape you want to do.

Also noticed you have a few pieces of rocks to hold one of the driftwoods. You might want to cover them with some plants like anubias or java fern.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Ordering my controller today.

Which would yall use ? Reef Keeper Lite .... or .... Aqua Jr. ???





malaybiswas said:


> Also noticed you have a few pieces of rocks to hold one of the driftwoods. You might want to cover them with some plants like anubias or java fern.


Only the one branch sticking out is different wood.

Yes, lots of plants and moss will "blend" the wood and rocks and
other hard lines you see now.

Tank will be *heavily* planted


Water is still very cloudy and leaking tannins like mad today.


Thought would clear out over night. Has to pass thru 8+ inches of
packed filter floss and 2 bags of Purigan in the sump.

18hr












Now THIS is a filter ............


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Having hell getting water clear.

Done an 80% water change

Dug two old Magnum HOT filters out of storage and running
those with one micron filter and other with carbon.

Up to 12" of filter floss in sump

Have enough Purigan in the sump to treat a 2,000 gallon tank
and just will not clear up.

Wood had been soaking for weeks in plastic tub too.
Had also been turning water brown whole time too.

Purigan and filter floss are turning brown so they are working

Try another massive water change tomorrow.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Patience young jedi.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Been giving everything time to soak and leech out tannins.

Looked in tank this morning to see about doing another 90%
water change and maybe starting with some plants this week.


Noticed large rock is covered in small cocoons with little red worms
coming out of them. Worms are super small, string like and wiggle around
and are starting to inch warm crawl across rock.


Whats going on here ???? What do I need to do ???


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

where did you get the rock? Guessing it is not from a pet/fish store. If you collected/found it elsewhere, it needs to be sterilized before itis introduced in tank.

IMO, take it out from the tank immediately and soak it in bleach water (pure bleach, 1:20 bleach to water ratio) for 1-2 days followed by rinsing and soaking in plain water for another 1-2 days to remove the bleach from the rock. That should kill all the worms and any other organisms in it.

Make sure that the bleach is removed from the rock before you re-introduce it in the tank. 


Another thing to check is whether it is inert or not. A low tech way is to drop some vinegar on it and see if it fizzes. If it does, then it might change PH of the tank water.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Yep, rock was from the back yard, just got a good scrubbing and rinse.

Torn down and soaking in bleach water


Got my controller on the way
Went with the Neptune Systems Aqua Jr.

also ordered a Mag 7 pump to replace the Mag 5 in the sump now.
Just was not moving enough water.

Going to run Mag 7 with 1" feed pipe. Calculator say it should move
about 440gph at my head height with the 1" pipe vs only 380gph with 3/4" pipe.

Mag 5 isnt even putting out 300gph with 3/4" pipe right now.

Should be here Friday from MarineDepot.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Christmas in May :icon_bigg

Love the Brown Truck

MAg 7 pump, check valve for return and Aqua Control Jr.


The Aqua Control Jr. is kick ass. Super easy to follow instructions
and get it set-up.

Will control heater, fan, lights and Co2 injection ..... for now.
Lots of neat features for such a small box.

Peace of mind and tank stability is well worth the $280 cost to me.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Ok, wood has been soaking in bleach, pressure washed and soaking
in clean water for over week now. Should be clean.

In meantime I've finshed the pump, filter and controller install.
Its been a LOT of work to get everything plumbed up

Final specs:

30 gal sump with 20+ real gallons of water.
10 gal of bio-media
8-12" of filter floss for mechanical filtration.
25W UV sterilizer - controlled by Aqua Jr.
Fluval 305 running thru the sump with Purigan bags for media
Mag 7 return pump with 1" pipe - 400+gph real flow at tank.
Magnum HOT filter with Micron cartridge hanging in overflow box.
Neptune Systems Aqua Jr. controller
Co2 injection into overflow box - controlled by Aqua Jr.
300W heater - controlled by Aqua Jr.


Aqua Jr. will keep PH rock steady at 6.9-7.0 thru Co2 injection

If temps get too high it will kick off lights, UV light and turn on small fan
depending on how hot its getting.



Sump is also setup for easy water changes. Stick a hose out the window
and turn a ball valve and the Fluval will empty the sump. Just refill sump
for quick no buckets no mess water changes.

Get some scape and water back there tomorrow and hopefully start getting
some plants in there first of next week.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Wood and everything is back in.
Fingers crossed little red worms dont come back.

Up to about 4.5 large bags of Amazonia in the tank now :icon_wink

Think I like this scape much better anyway.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

wow, that tank has got a lot of technology under the hood. i definitely like it! 
cant wait to see it planted!


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

monkeyruler90 said:


> cant wait to see it planted!


Me too .................


LOL, turned into 5 times more work, cost and time then originally planned


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Got the new sump/overflow/drain design kick'n now for about an hour.

Absolutely bone dead silent. roud:

Anyone wants to know how to do a fool proof dead quiet overflow/sump
set-up drop me a pm.

This has surpassed all expectations in noise reduction. :smile:


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Well here's the planting plan.

Been doing massive water changes to try and knock down the
typical ADA aqua soil bacteria bloom.

No creepy crawly critters showing up either so looks good there.


Let me know what you think of the planting plan.
Really want to stay away from tank filling stemmed plants that require
a lot of trimming and seem to just take over the tank.

If everything stays good over the weekend I'll start ordering plants
first of next week.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

nice. you found an awesome rock and stump. they seem almost a little too big for the space, but i bet they will scale better when the plants grow in. good call removing that other piece of wood, as someone else remarked it did not match the stump and it also had a naughty appearance.

i think that i have those same worms in some of my livebearer tanks, although yours look somewhat larger. i don't think they hurt anything at all. i would guess that they help to clean detritus and maybe fish eat them too.

you got really nice stuff for this tank. i wonder how i missed this one before. 

subscribed


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

What a cracking bit of wood. It reminds me a lot of this charming little scape.


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## SPECIAL||PLANS (May 27, 2009)

i'm pretty sure those little red worms are some kind of insect larvae waiting on some moisture to awaken them from their slumber. worms usually dont sun themselves on rocks and leave cocoons laying around. but mosquito eggs look like dirt that sticks when lightly rinsed and could easily find its way into your tank. if they havent turned into little bugs and flown away by now then they'll just be a live treat for your first fish. bon appetite.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't think you should put the anubias on the tip of the wood. It would look better towards the bottom. Also, is it even possible to grow cryptocoryne epyphitically?


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks all.




Axelrodi202 said:


> . is it even possible to grow cryptocoryne epyphitically?



Thats actually 3 pieces of wood arranged and buried to look like
one mass.

The crypt in the center and behind the wood will be planted in substrate.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Yikes, came back from being gone all day.

All lights off, just pump and UV light running
Temp in house got up to about 80* and tank is at 84*

Even a fan isnt going to do me much good .... is it ???
Main lights weren't even running.

Ideas ???
I got a chiller for my 100 gallon going in the den for this very fear.

Cant spend another $400+ on this 60gal though

What do you think ........ ?????
Turn it into an Amazon sword and Discus tank ???


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

hmmm, is there any way to put your sump in the basement, or is your house on a slab? i have seen reefers do that and it can make a substantial difference with the sump sitting on the cold cement. would probably require a lot of complicated re-plumbing.

a fan or two might help quite a bit, especially if you can blow them right at the water. are you going to run AC this summer?


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> hmmm, is there any way to put your sump in the basement, or is your house on a slab? i have seen reefers do that and it can make a substantial difference with the sump sitting on the cold cement. would probably require a lot of complicated re-plumbing.
> 
> a fan or two might help quite a bit, especially if you can blow them right at the water. are you going to run AC this summer?


Slab ......... makes for easy tank placement at least.
I'm going to try some fans on the tank water see what that does.

Summer starts in mid-march down here so A/C is always on/off.
If gone for the day though I turn it way up or off. Easily gets to about
80+ in the house by late afternoon.

Its really expensive to cool an empty house all day just to keep an 
aquarium cool. 

I bought a chiller for my big tank, but thats not feasible for this tank.

I'll see how the fans do. If they keep it at 80 I should be ok I think.
Water is coming out of the tap at 80.5 right now and will just get worse
as summer goes on too, so I've got an uphill battle from the get go.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

you mention that you don't even have lights on yet, but when you do start running lights you might also shorten photoperiod and try running them either early or late so that they are off during the hottest part of the afternoon.

have you seen this fan?

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Giesemann_Stainless_Steel_Aquarium_Fan_Cooling_Fans_for_Aquarium_Lighting~vendor~Giesemann~idProduct~GL4311~idCategory~FILTACAF.html

that one is pricey, but it seems like somebody else makes one comparable for much less(?). maybe your canopy doesn't have room for something like that(?).

80+ from the tap...wow that is warm. is it like that everywhere in Texas? maybe your water comes form a reservoir or something.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Luke warm water from tap is norm down here.

Water sits in above grnd storage tanks all day heating up and comes
from 78* lake to start with. Low is only about 78-80 over night
so it never has a chance to cool off.

Seen 90*+ water come out of my tap before in late July-August.

plus side is I get to play golf in February and dont shovel snow ever .... much less in April :hihi:
Gotta love the Gulf Coast


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## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

rbarn said:


> Its really expensive to cool an empty house all day just to keep an
> aquarium cool.


Thats funny, I keep my house 72 deg year round just for all my aquariums, plus I like it also. If I let my home heat up to 80+ deg the ac units run more then normal just to cool the house back down to a comfortable temp. 
That said, between central air, half dozen aquariums, half dozen computers, half dozen tv's, numorus other electrical devices "smart home", and a 24x24 workshop my electric bill is 100$ - 250$ per month. And that is nothing, I know people with 200 to 600 gal reef tanks that use that much power per month just to run there aquariums.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Went and got a small $6 4" fan from Walmart.

Seems to do the trick

Same scenario, but I had the lights on this time as well and little fan blowing
on tank and temps were only at 80.5 today.

Also, after doing some research last night it seems the Mag pumps
are somewhat notorious on the reef forums for adding heat to tanks.

Might try a QuietOne 3000 pump, this Mag 7 is fairly loud in my opinion too.



Dont know about being more expensive to cool down house then keep it cool
My A/C has entire house nice and cool in 5-10mins. Although it is a modest
house of only 1,900 sqr feet.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

i wonder if you could put your AC on a timer so that it would run just long enough to cool the house, then shut off again, during the middle of the day while you are out(?).

oh i do remember hearing that about the Mag pump. 

i'd have to go back and look at you pictures, but could you also direct a fan at the water in the sump?


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Yep, could put small fan on sump too.

Also, going to have Aqua Jr. Controller controlling everything
just need to go thru and set up its program now.

Something like :

1. Temp above 79.0 .............. fan on
2. Temp above 79.5 .............. UV light off
3. Temp above 80.0 .............. Light 2 off
4. Temp above 80.5 .............. all lights off.


The Aqua Controller Jr. will also interface with the X-10 control system.

So, theoretically I could have the Aqua Jr. turn on a window unit A/C or
even control the whole house's central A/C system if need to.

Neptune Systems Aqua Jr .......... Kicks Butt !!!!!!!!!!


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

I can't wait to see this tank completed... very interested..


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

that sounds awesome. i need to look into the Aqua Jr.. i have only ever glanced at it. 

have you looked much into fish species selection for 80 degree water? i'd be interested to know more about that too.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Right now I'm thinking Neons and a pair of Kribs with cherry shrimp
and other clean up crew.

Kribs should take the 80 water ok
What do you guys think on Neons and Cherry's at that temp ??

New to keeping fish so need some feed back and thoughts from yall
on fauna selection. 

Let me know. Totally open for ideas at this point.


Water:

Fairly hard water KH runs about 8
Ph 7.0-7.1 controlled by Co2 injection
Temp 78-80


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## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

rbarn said:


> Dont know about being more expensive to cool down house then keep it cool
> My A/C has entire house nice and cool in 5-10mins. Although it is a modest
> house of only 1,900 sqr feet.


Your probably right! The central air on this house is a little undersized! With all the electrical devices adding heat it has a hard time keeping temps down in a range that is good for aquariums, computers and me. 

QO pumps will also add heat to your system, I have a 6000, 3000 and a 4000hh and they all run warm. Dont know if they are better then mags, as I have never owned one, but they are quiet by my standards.
I like the idea of acjr control of a 1 room ac unit, then your not cooling the entire home because of one or 2 aquariums! 
Looking forward to seeing this system up and running MD


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Well its a start












Dont know how I'm going to like the Cardinal Plant.
Might be more trimming than I want to do to keep it small.

Of course the LFS only had about 1/3 of the plants I needed.

Going to hit another LFS across town see what they have tonight.


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## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

huh I was thinking of using a similar peice of driftwood in my ten gallon. is it malasian?
This is going to turn out cool.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

vtkid said:


> is it malasian?
> This is going to turn out cool.


Thanks,

yes Malaysian driftwood.
Be prepared for HEAVY tannins. 
I love the stuff but man it leeches bad at first.

Start soaking now !!!! lol


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## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

I have a piece that was in a previous tank, but I have been re-soaking it. haha it can be a nightmare


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Few more plants.

Just about done. Few more clumps of HC in the front and going
to fill back right corner with that dwarf Japanese Fan grass that is
in mid center.


Taking good bit of Co2 to keep up with out gassing, so I need to play
with my main tank return to cut down on surface agitation.

Put my diffuser in the overflow box, Works like a charm. Awesome diffusion.


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## nickcamp12345 (May 2, 2009)

spread the clumps of hc out to get a really nice carpet.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

nickcamp12345 said:


> spread the clumps of hc out to get a really nice carpet.


nah, just buy more clumps ............ i'm impatient. lol
Those 3 are already sending out trailers after only 12 hrs.

Going to go get 2-3 more pots of HC tonight.

Still cant decide what to put in back right corner.
Thinking maybe a field of Anubias now.

Water is starting to clear up nice now too. I put some SeaChem filter
starter in the sump and it seemed to help with the bacteria bloom a lot.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Cranked the PH down to 6.8 with the controller, which puts
me right at, to a hair over, 30ppm Co2 and the Anubias on the left
started pearling little streams of o2 up almost immediately. 

Very cool. :thumbsup:


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

sweet. this is shaping up quick.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I really like the rock placement in this tank. It is really starting to look good. It'll be awesome with the HC carpeting the bottom.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Nice setup. I like the anubias most.

I would like to watch the HC growth more closely since I tried planting them like you have done and they never really took off. From most information I saw on the web, looks like they were slow because I did not try emersed growth, but if yours take off, there is probably some other factor that I need to get my arms around.

Hopefully you are going to publish updates frequently


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks everyone. Wouldnt be here with out yall for inspiration.

Well thats it.

About $350 worth of plants there.
Just about cleaned out the LFS.

They only had one more pot of HC, so I broke it up into 4 small pieces
there in front. The rest I'm gonna leave and see how it does.
Already sending out creepers ...........

Gave it a huge dose of Ferts and cranked the PH down to 6.7 which
should put me in the 40+ppm Co2 area. Most fish would probably not like this .........
but the plants should go nuts.

Running a little over 200W.
(1) 65W PC - 10k
(4) 39W T5 - 12k, 10k, 6.7k, "pink plant bulb" are the spectrums

You cant see it, but the water is full of tiny little pearling bubbles.


Back corner is filled with Anubias that was in wool pots so they
had little soil roots already. Should do ok.

Generic Java moss up on top of driftwood in the pump out flow too.
Should grow out into nice "flowing" strands off the wood.



DAY 1: 06/11/09


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Low light single 65W PC 10k


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

looks great boss. keep the updates coming. this will really look like something in a week or so when the plants have had a chance to settle in.


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## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

looks like the HC is doing alright under low light


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

This is how you do water changes the easy way.

Dug around and found an industrial carbon filter supplier here
in town and picked up one of their "smaller" filters.

20" block carbon filter with 5 micron rating.

This is "block" carbon, not granule. So the water has to be forced
thru the carbon not just flow over it. :thumbsup:


Filter is rated for chlorine removal up to about 40,000 gallons !!!!!!! 
So if I do a 25% water change every week, 50 weeks a year
I should have to replace the filter in about .... oh say 20-30 years.

Probably replace the filter every 1-2 years just be safe.
At $55 a filter it quickly pays for itself over dechlorinators or HomeDepot under sink filters.

Filter housing ..... $75
Filter ................ $55
Mounting brkt ..... $25

No buckets, no mess ...... just mount it in garage near water supply
and run a hose from it thru the house. Easy Peasey



Notice the coke can on the left for scale.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Couple of issues.

1. Have very fine hair like algae starting to growing on HC.

2. HC is dieing. Some leaves are turning yellow/translucent.
but not too bad. Just started overnight.


What do I do ?

Just did big 60% water change and pulled Co2 levels back.
Do I need to shorten light ? Been running 12hrs to help give everything a boost.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

i was hoping that a better aquarist than me would chime in, but i'll give my best shot. i would say don't panic. this is a brand new setup that will be in a state of flux for at least a few weeks. before doing lots of tweeking i would advise instead to try get conditions as stable and as steady as you can. this way your plants will more readily adjust and begin to grow. you shouldn't worry about a little algae. it is a natural occurrence in a new tank. however, you could reduce your photoperiod by a few hours to slow it down so that it won't choke your plants.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

I really like your hardscape. I'm anxious to see how this fills in. You may try some fast growing stems temporarily to help with the algae problem. BTW, if your HC doesn't make it, let me know. I'll RAOK you some. Mine is growing extremely well.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

cah925 said:


> You may try some fast growing stems temporarily to help with the algae problem.


I think all this anubias under high light and ferts is going to grow like a fast growing
stem plant. 2 plants already put out a new leaf each.

When lights are on, the anubias pearls like crazy. More than any of the others.
puts out constant little streams of bubbles and builds up huge bulbs on 
underside of leaves.


Glad I got this Aqua Jr. controller too.

Been lazy and havent programmed the fan to come on and off with
temp changes yet. And temps either get too cold if I leave the fan on all
night or get too warm if no fan is left on. 

Need to set-up the control for it tonight.

Fan has been critical in keeping tank temps in check.
If just left alone, in nice a/c room, no lights on .... still hits 79.5 overnight


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Went and got better Ammonia and Nitrite/Nitrate test kit.

Ammonia ..... 0
Nitrite ......... 0.25
Nitrate ........ more than 0 but less than 5ppm


Went and bought 6 cardinals as guinea pigs ........:fish:


What else do I need to be testing for and dosing with ???
Need some schooling on long term tank up-keep here please.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

18hrs later and all 6 cardinals are still alive :thumbsup:
Good color and swimming around

Only had one get into the sump ............


Going to have to come up with little screen or something for
the overflow holes.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

That thing has $350 worth of plants in it? ...You're kidding, right?


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

I wish

Adds up quick. About $80 worth of Aunbias alone.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

for future reference, you can often do much better with purchases via the Swap and Shop forum here. it does take some effort though, and it could be difficult to find all the things that you want to fill up a tank at the same time.

_Anubias_ is generally expensive any way that you cut it.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> for future reference, you can often do much better with purchases via the Swap and Shop forum here. it does take some effort though, and it could be difficult to find all the things that you want to fill up a tank at the same time.
> 
> _Anubias_ is generally expensive any way that you cut it.


Yep, I'm too impatient for that. ...........


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

yeah that's why stores like AquaBotanic and aquariumplants.com are handy too.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> yeah that's why stores like AquaBotanic and aquariumplants.com are handy too.


I compared those sites against my LFS and my LFS was right there 
or even cheaper sometimes. .........


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Tank seems to be up and running.

Ammonia ....... 0ppm
Nitrite ........... 0ppm
Nitrate ......... under 5ppm

Thumbs up for SeaChem Filter Starter. Had my filter cycled
in less than 2 weeks. Yet another good product from SeaChem

Dosed today with complete line of SeaChem Flourish.
Got Nitrate up to about 7ppm after dosing with Nitrogen supplement.

All 6 cardinals are happily living in the overflow box and sump, rofl.
Took em about 12 hours to end up in there. Next project is figuring how
to lay some screen over the overflow holes.

When I was up at the LFS buying Florish they had some awesome looking HC
that just got in. So got another patch and put it in also.
Original patches are still living if not thriving. No plants have died, wilted
or melted. Couple of the anubias have even put on new leaves.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

sounds great! thanks for the update.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Day 6: 6/17/09


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks guys,

Decided on s. american dwarf cichlids for the tank .... aka Rams
Water is clearing out nicely now. 

Pair of electric blue rams
Pair of gold rams
16 cardinals

I also raised temp to 80.5 for the Rams and will try and keep it there.
From what I read last night, 80 seems to be a min for keeping rams happy and alive.
Hope the plants take the heat

more to come

Day 8: 6/18/09 ....... water clearing nicely now :fish:


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

How do you guys get your fish to hold still for pics ????? :confused1:


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

those are great fish! i never hear do electric blue _rams_ before.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> those are great fish! i never hear do electric blue _rams_ before.


They are rare to find ....... and expensive.

$60 for pair of Electric Blue semi-adults
$10 for pair of German Gold juvi's

Few threads I could find from a Google search said they
were hard to keep and short lived. ....... We'll see, these seem happy so far.

LFS had a planted tank with about 30 of them in it.
Looked amazing.

They're very active, even for Rams.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

It took 2.5 weeks for water to clear.

Woke up this morning to a sparkling clear tank. Was worried about
this ADA Aqua Soil never clearing the water out completely

I really do think all the haziness with ADA is nothing but bacteria blooms.
As soon as I was able to get filter up and cycled the water cleared very fast.
With-in 2-3 days after that it was crystal clear.


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## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

those electric blue rams are awesome how big do they get, the same as the others?


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Same, they are just blue, new color breed like the Gold's
They've been around, just hard to find.

Some local wholesaler must have brought in a bunch
from some breeder. Seen them in several LFS's around in last week.

All have been selling very quickly even at $20-30 a pop


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

First day of absolutely crystal clear water !!!!!!!!! 
YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

What is that plant in the center back? Is that spiralis?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

rbarn said:


> How do you guys get your fish to hold still for pics ????? :confused1:


Flash freezes movement. With a capable camera you can flash from above the tank which looks best, but even built-in flash helps. Just need to watch for reflections from the glass.

Those Blue Rams are stunning.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Nice tank. Wish it was in my house! :flick:


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

nice! this looks awesome. congratulations. 

i also wonder about that crypt(?). i acquired some that looked just that a while back. i actually wondered if it was really a _Lagenandra_(?).


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Sorry no idea what that plant is ..........
LFS I got it from is way across town too.

Liked those electric blue rams so much I went and got another pair :fish:

(4) electric blue rams
(2) gold rams
(2) Signifer Rainbows - male/female
(16) cardinals

LFS had these really cool dark red "cardinal" shrimp and some dark dark brown with
yellow stripe shrimp (gold flake?), but they were pretty expensive.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

I think that plant in center back is a Dwarf Onion Plant, about 8 of them


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Dwarf onion? Hmm. Crazy cool.


BTW, driftwood hunk is sweet. Digging the rocks too. Not thrilled about the anubias in the back right, but I guess time will tell what your intentions are there.

Good plant selection too. The Blyxa should look awesome when it flourishes.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

gmccreedy said:


> Not thrilled about the anubias in the back right, but I guess time will tell what your intentions are there.


Thats the straight Barteri Anub. in the back.
Stuff gets pretty big.

Should be a nice big mound of big green leaves back there.
Anubias grows big and fast in bright light. 

Will grow up a good 4-5" and out over probably half of the big rock
Back corner should fill in nicely :smile:


All my hair algae has gone away on its own too :icon_smil


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

*Observation on Electric Blue Rams:*


One of main reasons I went and got more Electric Blue rams was
one of them was picking on the other pretty bad.

I put 2 more in there and they are MUCH better.

The one that was being a bully is still being a bully but its more
spread out now.

They all have their fins up most of the time instead of down like
they were. And the one that I think is a female is not constantly
running from the bully.

I think these fish are kinda like Discus in that you need to either have
just one, which the fish doesn't really care for, or you need 4 or more in a decent
size tank.

These seem much more active and aggressive than the Gold Ram pair I got.

Starting to think some of the high death rates people might with
these fish is maybe due to harassment from only buying 2.

And they dont pick on the other fish. Just the other electric blues.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Figured better test water after putting in all these fish ..........

Ammonia ....... < 0.25 ppm
Nitrite ........... 0.25 ppm
Nitrate .......... < 5 ppm

Gave it a 20% water change and it will give it another 20% this afternoon
and report back.

Starting to get some brown algae on rocks and wood. 
Time for some algae eaters


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Tank is doing good.

Brown algae and hair algae starting to take hold. 
Got an algae clean up crew in there today

(2) Siamese Algae eaters
(1) L204 Pleco - cool fish
(10) Amano shrimp

Was little worried about shrimp in with these dwarf cichlids till 
I noticed they are as big or bigger than the fish, lol.

Ammonia ...... 0
Nitrite ......... 0
Nitrate ...... >5ppm

Been adding Nitrogen fert to try and keep Nitrates up a little.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Amano shrimp ROCK !!!!!!

threw them in tank last night.
Wood, moss and plants were getting covered in brown algae.

Woke up, everything was *****-n-span clean :thumbsup:

Shrimp were way up on top of the wood when I turned the lights on
They are now hiding in the shadows just under the moss.

Pleco seems to be MIA this morning though. Have to keep an eye out for him.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

6 legged Hoover Vacuum


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Tank is doing well :thumbsup:

HC is growing, but the Rams seem to like poking at it and ripping pieces off
Dwarf Onion is growing like crazy
Anubias are growing like crazy.
Cardinal plant is doing well but the Rams like to nip at it too.
Jave moss is fluffing up and starting to put on new growth too


I'm pretty sure I ended up with 4 male EBR's ...... lol

They constantly show off to each other and defend their little turfs.
tank seems just big enough to let them each have his own territory.
Sucks these rams are impossible to sex since female doesn't have the nice pink belly.

Gold Rams are growing nice too, but think the female may have ICH.
noticed small white patch behind her left gill.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Another update:


Female Gold Ram died. Never grew like the male has.
Everyone else seems fine. Started Anti-Bacteria treatment yesterday just in case

The dwarf onion plant is exploding now.

Rams love to pick at the HC. Its hanging in there but I think its going
to be an uphill battle in getting that lush carpet look.

Run lights 12+hrs every day. Dose regularly with full line of Flourish
and still cant keep Iron or Nitrates above trace levels.
Zero algae problems other than brushing the glass couple times a week.

Few snails popping up now too. Seen Rams going at snail eggs on leaves also.
They seem to love em.


Ammonia .... 0
Nitrite ........ 0
Nitrate ....... >5ppm with daily dosing of Nitrogen supplement.

Water stays crystal clear. I top off the sump and give it a 15% w/c every Sat.
has been the routine so far. Sump evaporation seems to be good for solid
2 weeks before it would "have" to have a top off.


Day 17: 06/28/09












Look how much the dwarf onion has grown in little over 1 week.


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## hyphination (Sep 25, 2008)

cool layout. really digging your DW setup


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Tank continues to plug along.

Controller keeps everything rock steady

Ph 6.9 (never off by more than +/- .03)
Temp 80.5 - 

if temp over 80.5 fan comes on
if temp over 80.8 UV light and main light go off for 30mins
if still over 80.8 they will come on and turn right back off for another 30mins.

Fan does perfect job of regulating tank temps. Lights never go off.

Running the tank warm to keep Rams happy. Cardinal plant is only
thing that doesnt like it and I'm not happy with it anyway. Be replaced soon.

Ammonia ........ 0
Nitrite ........... 0
Nitrate .......... <5ppm - with daily dosing of Nitrogen.



HC is spreading nice. All runners are hugging substrate.
I think the 3.7 wpg of T-5 and PC lighting might have something to do there ....













Pic of the lights and $6 fan that keeps temps in check
Just need an autofeeder and doser and I wont have to touch this
thing except to top off the sump once a week, and bi-monthly water
and filter floss change.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

looks great. glad to hear that your thermostat control is working well. i should study what you did again i am planning a tank for a public space that will need some automation.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Just out of interest, is that just a domestic fan? I'm having a nightmare keeping my tank cool at the moment.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

skinz180189 said:


> is that just a domestic fan? I'm having a nightmare keeping my tank cool at the moment.


$6 wal-mart 4" desktop fan

pretty quiet too.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

rbarn said:


> $6 wal-mart 4" desktop
> 
> pretty quiet too.


Cheers. Not sure how I could rig something like that to mine. Will try and figure something out.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

<cough> FTS <cough>


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

They make expensive ones that clip on to tank

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?SearchText=fan&parsed=1






gmccreedy said:


> <cough> FTS <cough>


FTS ???


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

rbarn said:


> They make expensive ones that clip on to tank
> 
> http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?SearchText=fan&parsed=1


My hood prohibits me from clipping a fan onto the side. Might try and wire some PC fans into the hood somewhere/somehow (I'm terrible with electrics, I'm a mechanically minded person!)


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

gmccreedy said:


> <cough> FTS <cough>



Whatever that long grass in the center back is, its going NUTS.
I swear some of those longer blades grow 1-2 inches a day !!!


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## jazzlvr123 (Jul 16, 2007)

plants look healthy id take out that rock its overbearing for the rest of the scape. Regards, JAzz


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## Aussie_Star (Feb 15, 2005)

any updates??


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Tanks is doing good.

Slacked on the Nitrogen dosing for a couple of weeks and Val started melting bad
and got a lot of hair and brown algae.

Algae is better and Val is coming back in nicely with some dosing again.

HC is filling in nice, could be better, but the Rams love to nip at it and pluck
little pieces off.

Bunch of Tetras and some Ammon shrimp added.

Electric Blue Rams are doing great.

Had to remove cardinal plant, it was melting and leaves were getting too
big. Would not recommend fullsized cardinal plant to anyone. Get the dwarf version.

Sump works like a charm. Water is always crystal clear.
All I do is replace filter floss every 6-8 weeks and do 20% water change
out of the sump on Saturdays. Takes all of 5mins, no buckets, no dechlorinating chems.


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

interesting setup, looking good, thanks for sharing

can't wait to see more of those electric blue rams?


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## Aussie_Star (Feb 15, 2005)

please update


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