# Total beginner looking for help with cheap substrate



## byviolet (Jun 12, 2014)

Hi!

I'm trying to get a 55 gal and a 3 gal aquarium set up -- but I'm pretty much a total beginner at this point. I think I have a rough idea of how substrates work, but I'm clueless so far as to how to fertilize the water column (like what do I buy?) I have been browsing the forums and I have been leaning towards a few options. I want them to be cheap because I don't have a lot of money to spend!

1. Soil. I've heard some good stuff about organic miracle grow, but it seems to suck if you want to clean out the tank.

2. Diamond blasting sand. I know that this has no CEC, would that be a problem? I am going to try and have the tank heavily planted. Otherwise it looks really nice!

3. Turface/T-sorb. Not sure on this one. I know they have high CEC but I also heard that they never rinse out and get very messy/turn back into clay after a while. Also, I live in a pretty small town in canada so I don't have access to either of these products. If there is a similar product available in canada that would be great!

any help would be awesome, I can't wait to set up the tank!


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Lots of people just use pool filter sand as it's more uniformed in grain size/lack of trash
that may be in other types of sand. 
CEC is not critical but does balance the amount of ferts which the plants has available to them. It absorbs when the level is high and releases when the level gets lower.
Try reading some of this link for a general "starters guide" type thing.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107303


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## byviolet (Jun 12, 2014)

thanks that was really helpful. I'm still looking for a high CEC substrate though, I think it'll help me out and if I dose, it will keep nutrient levels more consistent.

However, what do most people use to dose? Is plain liquid fert for terrestrial plants ok?


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## sewoeno (Apr 12, 2014)

i love my black diamond. i wish i would have knew about it with my first few tanks.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

When it comes to substrate anything works. Crap in a tank cap it with some pea sized gravel and poof you have plant food. 

Seriously though. It really depends how much you want to dose and how much light you use and CO2
I've used soil, Eco complete, gravel, sand, and I'm about to try amazonia for the first time (crosses fingers). 
No matter what you use sooner or later your tearing down to rebuild your substrate or you're dosing and popping pills into the substrate. No regular system is infinite (except some of the stuff I've seen Tom Barr do but I'm not a plant whisperer).

It really does just come down to preference and how much work you're wanting to do or not do. 

As for dosing most do EI and even that has options. I have two pump bottles that I do alternating days, three squirts and done.


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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

I use MG organic soil, capped with pool filter gravel or pea gravel.  I don't know what you mean by 'cleaning out the tank', if you mean starting all over, yeah, it reeks, with all the anaerobic bacteria that has built up. Or if you mean water changes/syphoning, I don't syphon my tanks, but I don't think many people do syphon their planted tanks. 

But, for me, MG soil grows my plants like mad, and is $6 a bag. Economically speaking, you can't go wrong with dirt. My tanks haven't been going forever, but I haven't added anything to the substrate yet, fert-wise. You would still most likely need to fertilize the water column regardless.


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## byviolet (Jun 12, 2014)

I have no problems with fertilizing, and miracle grow seems a little too messy from what I've read (unless you can tell me otherwise), like sticking to things and making rescaping a pain.

About the blasting sand... isn't the fact that it has no CEC a big problem? How will you ensure a consisten supply of nutrients to the plants?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Any soil based substrate will be a mess when you rescape. With those you set and forget it or you'll ed up with muddy waters. 

For inert substrate you dose the water column and add fert tabs to the substrate.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

> Is plain liquid fert for terrestrial plants ok?


Not really. Most people use either aquarium specific products (wet or dry) or else agricultural grade chemicals like KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO2 and similar materials.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

I wouldn't recommend a dirted tank if you like to rearrange plants a lot. Trimming stem plants and replanting the shoots wouldn't be much of a problem, but if you want to dig up crypts and swords and vals and move them around, it will make a hell of a mess.

Otherwise, I think a dirted low-tech tank is the way to go. You won't need to do much fertilizing, as the dirt itself will provide most of the nutrients. It's also pretty cheap. And if you have a dirted tank, the dirt itself has a high CEC value, so what you use as a cap is less important.

As to capping material, I'm not sure what's available up in Canada. I picked up a bag of safe-t-sorb at a Graingers (it's a bit more expensive then some other places, but the location was convenient for me). I haven't used it yet, but I like the color of it, pretty natural looking with slight variance in colors. I've heard of people using Oil-Dri, but I think I've also heard that it's more prone to breaking down after a while. If the specific brands aren't available in Canada, maybe check and see what people use to clean up spilled oil, paint, etc. in car shops and stuff, or what they use as soil amendments. 

I think Akadama (some stuff used for bonsai) is something that people were using for a while, but I haven't heard much about it. Might want to see if there are any local bonsai folk, and ask what they use, as I've heard of bonsai people down here using turface and safe-t-sorb.


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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

lochaber said:


> ........ if you have a dirted tank, the dirt itself has a high CEC value, so what you use as a cap is less important.
> 
> As to capping material, I'm not sure what's available up in Canada. I picked up a bag of safe-t-sorb at a Graingers. If the specific brands aren't available in Canada, maybe check and see what people use to clean up spilled oil, paint, etc. in car shops and stuff, or what they use as soil amendments.


Just curious, I should know, I guess, but what's a CEC value? Also, why are you mentioning oil-absorbent materials as a dirt cap? I, again, should probably know, but can you break it down for me? 

Yes, dirt can make moving things around a PITA. I don't tend to move things around much in my own tanks, and some plants can be removed with care without making a mess here and there, especially stems, but with heavy rooters, like amazon swords, you would need to cut the roots and just leave them there not to make a mess. A complete rescape would do better as a tear down.

I would do inert gravel and root tabs then for cost and convenience. There is a new size of gravel available in Canada at Petsmart, called Geo-something, probably make by Hagen, but it's a smaller sized gravel than pea, and would work better for root development, imo. If I didn't have aquarium gravel in storage, that's what I would buy.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

sewoeno said:


> i love my black diamond. I wish i would have knew about it with my first few tanks.


+1.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

> but what's a CEC value?


Cationic Exchange Capacity.


Soil particles that are really small (like clay and humus) are so small they are charged particles, like ions. (Sort of). 
Fertilizer, dissolved in water is often a charged particle, too. 

The fertilizer clings to the soil. It is a secure enough bond that the fertilizer does not escape back into the water, but loose enough that the plants can take it. 
Plants can alter that attraction and take the fertilizer away from the soil. 

Thus, a soil with high CEC acts as a reserve of fertilizer for the plants. 

When I was doing the EI method very consistently the soil built up a reserve. Then, when things changed and I was not dosing so consistently the plants still did well. There was enough fertilizer built up in the soil (Soil Master Select, Turface) that they were not short of fertilizer.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

angelcraze said:


> Also, why are you mentioning oil-absorbent materials as a dirt cap? I, again, should probably know, but can you break it down for me?


Just because it's pretty common for these materials to be made out of fired clay particles, which work pretty well both as an aquarium substrate (inert, high CEC, doesn't fall apart), or for cleaning up oil leaks (cheap, absorbant, doesn't fall apart). Not all of them are suitable for aquarium use, I'm just thinking it's a product worth looking at for an idea of cheap alternatives.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

First, though I actually tend to do dirted tanks, I am not sure it's a great idea for a total beginner. The obvious reason is that as a beginner, you often don't have a clue what you want to do so you may rescape much more often. Some even tend to tear everything out, shift the substrate or do a complete restart pretty consistently as they gain new ideas. This is much harder with soil. 

The second reason is that if you have issues, you will be chasing your tail. I know that if I had an anerobic spot, I would try everything but addressing the actual problem as a beginner as I just wouldn't know what the issue is.

If you do want to do dirt, I would recommend keeping it at 1/4-1/2 inch max. I have never had issues with that amount, going more gives more chances to get an anerobic patch. Plus, it's a lot less messy as you use a bigger cap so it's far less problematic. 

IMO, the amount of substrate choices only makes it more confusing for the beginner. I remember when I started, going over every option, which I now know that most of the stuff was more or less the same. Further more, plenty of people had amazing tanks with anything from Flourite to Eco Complete to regular gravel. The DIY substrates just add more options but many are really just more of the same. Regular gravel can work, especially in lower light tanks without CO2. I would honestly say that in lower light levels, substrates become far less important than in high light, as long as you supplement ferts when you need to.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

How about an in between method which worked for me? I got into plants by accident almost and part of the reason was coming into substrate for free during a swap. It was a mix of light brown gravel and Flourite. I had been using pool filter sand in my tanks but it seemed a bit too white to look natural to me. I now use a variety mix of the three. Flourite is pretty expensive to fill a large tank. gravel less so, and pool filter sand is nice and clean while still reasonably cheap. As it gets mixed and stirred, I feel it looks much more natural than any one solid color or type would. Much a matter of preference, I believe. I dose the water column and fert pellets as needed. 
Dosing is quite cheap and easy once you get over the learning curve.


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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

Great suggestion PlantedRich!! That's awesome for a beginner. 



lochaber said:


> Just because it's pretty common for these materials to be made out of fired clay particles, which work pretty well both as an aquarium substrate (inert, high CEC, doesn't fall apart), or for cleaning up oil leaks (cheap, absorbant, doesn't fall apart). Not all of them are suitable for aquarium use, I'm just thinking it's a product worth looking at for an idea of cheap alternatives.


And thank you for the explanation.


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