# Ok to add stress coat & prime together?



## Scipio

I was wondering if it was ok to use both Seachem Prime and API Stress Coat together after a water change. I do 50/50 RO/tap WCs and I add the prime to the tap water before I add the RO/DI. 

I have 25 Galaxy Rasboras in a 10g Q tank and added 2ml of stress coat to help them with any stress during the water change and since I've only had them for less then a week I thought it would help them. 

Will I be ok adding both after WCs or am I asking for trouble? Any advice will be appreciated.


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## Wö£fëñxXx

You should be fine adding both, but why not just one at a time.
Prime is all you will ever need.


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## Complexity

Ditto. There's no harm in using both together, but there's no point in it either. The so-called stress coat isn't something you need. Just use Prime.

I used to use Stress Coat and even had a gallon size jug of it, and then I learned how much better Prime is. So I've been using up the Stress Coat when I do bleach treatments or whatever. Sometimes I'll use it up on my smaller tanks. After I use it all up, I'll only use Prime.

To help with stressed fish, drip acclimate, keep the tank dark and don't overfeed. However, I don't think this is necessary beyond the first 24 hours, if even that much. Keep them in their own Q/T for a couple of weeks so you can observe them closely to ensure they're healthy, and then put them in your regular tank.


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## Scipio

Thank you for the info  I'll be keeping the Galaxy rasboras in the 10g Q tank for about another 2 weeks, then they are going in my 125g planted tank.

I only bought a 4 oz bottle of Stress Coat thinking it would help them with "The Healing Power of Aloe Vera" that replaces slime coat.. once that is gona I will keep on using Prime alone for WC.


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## jaidexl

Plus me on the Prime only suggestion. I just can't imagine how fish wild or captive would ever need the healing power of aloe vera. :hihi:


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## OverStocked

Stress coat is junk. In which stream, river, or lake do you find aloe vera oil floating around? Also notice that after using it, you have a ton of proteinbuildup on the surface of your water--all those "good" things are up there.... They have no magical properties. This is like a lot of the "black magic" products in this hobby that claim to help when they either do nothing or may cause harm.


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## jaidexl

Yeah, any product that contains "herbal extracts" is snake oil taking advantage of people who don't realize that fresh, clean water is doing all the work. Kind of like those herbal detoxifyers people take before an interview, it's actually the gallon of water they tell you to drink before hand that "detoxifies", that's why the results are only temporary, water dilutes the body for only a few hours.

All these herbal fix-its for slime coats and fin damage hold about as much weight as Penac, or the sub-clinical doses of ginseng in softdrinks that are supposed to center mind and body and all that witchdoctor mumbo jumbo.


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## bradac56

jaidexl said:


> Plus me on the Prime only suggestion. I just can't imagine how fish wild or captive would ever need the healing power of aloe vera. :hihi:



Because that's not why you use Stress Coat or Prime there only useful
function is as a chlorine & chloramine remover and a very minimal amount
of ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and heavy metals (very minimal).

Buy whatever one is on sale or at Wal-Mart and forget the hype.

- Brad


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## epicfish

bradac56 said:


> Because that's not why you use Stress Coat or Prime there only useful
> function is as a chlorine & chloramine remover and a very minimal amount
> of ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and heavy metals (very minimal).
> 
> Buy whatever one is on sale or at Wal-Mart and forget the hype.
> 
> - Brad



Actually, Brad, the ingredient in Stress Coat, sodium thiosulfate, doesn't remove chloramines, despite what the packaging says. That, or you need a higher dosage which leaks to ammonia build up in the tank.

Here's a great site: http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm


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## jaidexl

bradac56 said:


> Because that's not why you use Stress Coat or Prime there only useful
> function is as a chlorine & chloramine remover and a very minimal amount
> of ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and heavy metals (very minimal).
> 
> Buy whatever one is on sale or at Wal-Mart and forget the hype.
> 
> - Brad


Stress coat doesn't remove ammonia or neutralize nitrate or nitrite as Prime does. 

My point is that Stress Coat contains Aloe Vera, which AFAIK does not occur naturally in any fishes' environments, so why add it to the tank? Prime does state it assists the slime coat as well, they don't specify what this is other than a "mild stimulant that does not coat" (read more here), but the other aspects of the product make it a wiser choice over something that pushes the Aloe Vera addition in their marketing, IMO. Prime is also much more concentrated than other conditioners I know of. It's true that it takes a hefty dose to affect NO2 and NO3, which I've confirmed with my own tests, but the extra concentration makes up for it. One cap is usually sufficient as such a mega-dose in most small to medium containers.

Seeing through "hype" is precisely why I _don't_ use products such as Stress Coat, melafix, pH adjusters, other sake oils etc etc, and _do_ use Prime, RO, DIY GH booster.


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## bradac56

epicfish said:


> Actually, Brad, the ingredient in Stress Coat, sodium thiosulfate, doesn't remove chloramines, despite what the packaging says. That, or you need a higher dosage which leaks to ammonia build up in the tank.
> 
> Here's a great site: http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm




Yes your absolutely correct sodium thiosulfate is the most common 
ingredient that almost every brand uses to remove chlorine. But 
where exactly does your website state it's sources on what's in Stress
Coat since API or Seachem doesn't list there exact active ingredients
on there bottles or websites as far as I can find and I've had these
fanboy fights before on other forums and I've actually looked into this
exact argument.

I'll be happy to agree with you if you can show me company sources
instead of random websites. I've interchanged Prime and Stress Coat
for about ten years without any negative effects on multiple tanks
and have never lost a fish to chlorine/chloramines (tho I've lost them
to my own stupidity in the past).

As a matter of fact I never said there was anything wrong with Prime
and I agreed with you about not mixing them together so I'm a bit 
surprised at your continued hostility over a product that's used by
millions of hobbyist around the world for water conditioning.

- Brad

EDIT:

I will preface all this with if your using Purigen you probably only want
to use Prime with it there is a very small chance of an amine based 
conditioner to harm slime coats when you mix them. I'm thinking about
using Purigen in my community tank and I'll only use Prime in that tank.


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## epicfish

http://aquaweb.pair.com/forums/archives/loach1/index.cgi?read=8594

US Patent Office search:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=4500510.PN.&OS=PN/4500510&RS=PN/4500510

Pertinent quote:


> Also present in preferred embodiments of the composition are a dechlorinating agent, such as sodium thiosulfate or asorbic acid, in an amount effective to neutralize the free chlorine or organic chlorine compounds, such as chloramine, in the water. Sodium thiosulfate is presently preferred. To be effective, it is believed that the sodium thiosulfate should be present in an amount of about 12.5 to about 60 g/l of the composition.


Makes no mention of any other compounds that are used for decholorination.


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## bradac56

epicfish said:


> http://aquaweb.pair.com/forums/archives/loach1/index.cgi?read=8594
> 
> US Patent Office search:
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=4500510.PN.&OS=PN/4500510&RS=PN/4500510
> 
> Pertinent quote:
> 
> 
> Makes no mention of any other compounds that are used for decholorination.



Batabing! thanks that was very helpful, look up '*diazolidinyl urea'* 
it acts as a formaldehyde releaser to bond them away into heavier
material to be removed by your filtration which is what I *think* 
Prime does with a different compound to bond chloramines as well. 
I know for certain that several brands of water conditioners use 
formaldehyde releasers for that exact purpose.

I'll have to look into that a bit more but I'd say that API isn't lying about
being a chloramine neutralizer *but* I'll look into the patents more before
I shout I'm right.

I do want to repeat you can't go wrong with Prime I use it myself when
it's on sale and I think it's better at removing ammonia which is a whole
different conversation from the chlorine/chloramine one we are having.

I also want to repeat that the use of Aloe Vera is minimal at best tho
I can dig up some studies on betta's from the IBC that say it can help
in some cases.

- Brad


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## epicfish

Seems API is using the diazolidinyl urea as a preservative for the aloe vera gel.



> A preservative should also be included so that the aloe vera extract retains its curative properties during storage. A suitable preservative is diazolidinyl urea.


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## bradac56

epicfish said:


> Seems API is using the diazolidinyl urea as a preservative for the aloe vera gel.



Yea but it would still function as a bonding agent for chloramine which
is why it says that on the bottle.

BUT with that said after looking into it a bit more I'd say Stress Coat
is perfect for 30% or less water changes for removing chloramines but
Prime would probably be a bit better at 50%+ in emergency water 
changes as they have a better bonding agent.

I'm still reading up on how Prime does there bonding so I might post
more on this in a bit.

- Brad


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## jaidexl

Good luck, half of Seachem's answers for anything are "we're not sure, it was an unexpected side effect", and their msds's are even more shady.


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## lauraleellbp

I belive that API's "Stress Coat" is also a dechlor product.

I also think that the API stress coat contains amines, which shouldn't be combined with Purigen.

Since I'm a "Purigen convert" I just use Prime on all my tanks these days.


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## Complexity

When I first joined this board, one of the first discussions I entered into was Stress Coat vs. Prime. I strongly challenged the reason why so many recommended Prime.

Two main things came out of the discussion.

One, as already noted, is that you cannot use Stress Coat with Purigen. For those not using Purigen, this is a moot point.

However, the second, and really most compelling, reasoning is the price tag. You pay a lot for the Aloe Vera hype.

Stress Coat requires 5ml per 10 gallons when used as a dechlorinator. Prime uses the same 5ml to treat 50 gallons! That means you have to use 5 TIMES the amount of Stress Coat to treat the same amount of water!

However, Prime does not cost 5 times the price! So in very simple terms, Prime is a much better economical selection.

Let's say I bought a 250ml bottle of both, Stress Coat and Prime. Here's the breakdown for treating a 29g tank (rounded off to 30g) and a 75g tank.


The bottle of Stress Coat will provide me with just under 17 treatments for the 29g tank or only 7 treatments for my 75g tank.


5ml of Stress Coat / 10 gallons of water = 0.5ml of Stress Coat for every gallon of water.

0.5ml x 30g = 15ml. It takes 15ml of Stress Coat to treat my 29g tank. Therefore, a 250ml bottle will only last for just under 17 water changes.

0.5ml x 75g = 37.5ml. It takes 37.5ml of Stress Coat to treat my 75g tank. Therefore, a 250ml bottle will only last for just under 7 water changes! Wow! Only 7!

Now compare that with Prime. A 250ml of Prime would give me over 83 treatments for my 29g tank or over 33 treatments for my 75g tank!


5ml of Prime / 50 gallons of water = 0.1ml of Prime for every gallon of water.

0.1ml x 30g = 3ml. It takes 3ml of Prime to treat my 29g tank. Therefore, a 250ml bottle of Prime will last for 83 water changes!

0.1ml x 75g = 7.5ml. So it takes 7.5ml of Prime to treat my 75g tank. Therefore, a 250ml bottle of Prime will last for over 33 water changes!

The number of treatments offered by the two products can't even compare! If I was to use Stress Coat for both, my 29g and 75g tanks every week, that bottle will only last me under 5 weeks while the bottle of Prime will last me over 23 weeks! Wow!

So when you look at just the expenses involved, Stress Coat is MUCH more expensive than Prime. Plus, who wants to run out to buy bottle after bottle of water conditioner so often? You'll either spend extra on gas or shipping to buy all those bottles of Stress Coat or you'll have to buy in bulk and store it. For what? Just to get some Aloe Vera which is NEVER recommended by anyone in any form for any reason for our fish. The only source recommending it is Stress Coat.

There is one and only one reason why Stress Coat makes the claim regarding Aloe Vera. It's a gimmick to raise the price. And remember, all my figures are just to treat the water, not to treat the fish's slime. Stress Coat requires that you use DOUBLE the amount of Stress Coat that I used in my calculations, making it even that much more costly! If I was concerned about the fish's slime, I'd have to buy a new 250ml bottle of Stress Coat every 18 days! That is ridiculous!

I use a lot of API products, and for the most part, am very happy with them. I used Stress Coat way back when I had my first set of tanks over 30 years ago. So without even thinking, I started using Stress Coat again when I got back into keeping tanks. It wasn't until people on this board pointed out the differences between Stress Coat and Prime that I began comparing the two, and what I found is that they simply do not even come close to comparing. IF the Aloe Vera was known to be a truly useful additive that was suggested anywhere outside of Stress Coat, I might think that I was getting what I paid for, but I have never found one single source that suggested I add Aloe Vera to my tank for anything. I have not seen it suggested for new fish, for sick fish, and especially for established fish. So in the end, all I'm getting by paying more for the Aloe Vera is ripped off.

I have almost finished my huge gallon sized bottle of Stress Coat (used to dechlor equipment that I bleach). When I'm finally done with it, I will not buy it again. I use Prime in my actual tanks, and I have found it to work great. I am now a Prime convert, and for good reason. :smile:


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