# Red plants and Led's



## Cap10Squirty (Feb 2, 2014)

I can't help you much with the LEDs but I sure would like to see a picture of your current tank. I'm sticking with the T5 HO route for now until. 

I can say though that a Finnex Ray 2 by itself will bleach everything out a lot. I used one over a smaller tank. Definitely consider the Monster Ray as an addition, or perhaps the Planted+

An all in one would be a BML fixture...might run you the same in pricing, or just a little more considering you're looking at two Finnex fixtures. Others can chime in on this.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

The Ray 2 sucks with red plants unless they are pretty much next to light. I know because I owned one. With my new LEDs I found it very easy to keep red plants when I started to blast them with chlorophyll A peaks of 660nm and 405-415nm.

Dealing with algae right now on plants as tank is new and still trying to get it dialed down.


























PAR wise my pantanal and senegalensis are only getting ~110 PAR in the pic so they are not close to the light at all considering my light is 3ft high from substrate.


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

wow, new to this forum i and i butchered adding photos give me a few and ill have some for u


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/album.php?albumid=17490&pictureid=64474


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

i guess if u want to see pics of my tank check out my profile because adding photos to this thread must be beyond me, I'm just a lowly pool guy and its nothing like adding photos on other forums


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

cool white+deep red leds ~4:1. cover pretty much all needed colors. for fun you can add cyan and ultraviolet if you like


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## Cap10Squirty (Feb 2, 2014)

Nathan.G said:


> i guess if u want to see pics of my tank check out my profile because adding photos to this thread must be beyond me, I'm just a lowly pool guy and its nothing like adding photos on other forums


I took a look at them. That carpet looks pretty nice, and are those red cherries flooding the plains in one photo? 

Anyway, I'm guessing people are suggesting the route of DIY LED...unless you can select these options in a custom LED fixture build.

Alternatively, a hydroponic/aquaponic quad T5HO fixture will cost you $80-$120 for one big enough to cover your tank...I spent $64 for a brand new one on e-B*A*Y and it came with 4 lights. You could always upgrade to one of these with potentially better reflectors than what you currently have, and new ballasts


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

I'm using two "cheap" Beamswork LED (36" .5watt 6500K) fixtures on my 40B and have never had an issue with red plants. You need the full balance of light, ferts, and C02 to bring out plant pigments. Light alone is not going to do it. The two fixtures I use, I paid just a little over $100 shipped for the pair of them. While there are benefits to using all these expensive high end LED units...you can pretty much drive yourself mad trying to figure out which one is "best". I went cheap and haven't regretted it.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

TekWarren said:


> I'm using two "cheap" Beamswork LED (36" .5watt 6500K) fixtures on my 40B and have never had an issue with red plants. You need the full balance of light, ferts, and C02 to bring out plant pigments. Light alone is not going to do it. The two fixtures I use, I paid just a little over $100 shipped for the pair of them. While there are benefits to using all these expensive high end LED units...you can pretty much drive yourself mad trying to figure out which one is "best". I went cheap and haven't regretted it.


Ageed red is more than just light:
nitrates
phosphates
iron
CO2
genetic predisposition
ect..

IF I read it right.. Display tanks use Nitrate (Nitrogen) starvation to color their plants ....at times.. 


> Now, I can tell you exactly how to get bright red plants and it is simple. Bright light, high CO2, high GH, lean nitrogen (nitrates as low as 5 ppm's) and lean phosphorous (phosphates less than 1 ppm's). There you have it. In two weeks you will have unbelievably red plants. Failing that, try Adobe Photoshop. That's actually how most people do it. Really. I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you all this.


http://www.aquaticplantenthusiasts....-want-red-plants-then-you-must-masochist.html


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

My tank hovers in the 40ppm Nitrate region...


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## ThisDarkDivide (Jun 24, 2014)

Ive a Mr. Aqua 60 cube (24x24x24) with 2 Kessil Amazon Sun A150WE's on it. My Ludwigia Peruensis was recently trimmed as it was over 2 feet tall on several stems.

These plants LOVE the kessil led's and they look awesome under it. A nice blood red color 

:icon_twis


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

LED's can grow colorful plants all day long, but it depends on which LED light you get. There are some LEDs that will grow and show great reds, and others that will not. It also depends on CO2 and ferts, as TekWarren mentioned above. 

First I'll say that I wouldn't get a Ray 2 if you want red plants. It'll grow them and they'll be red, but they won't be the same red, and furthermore they won't pop under that light. The Ray 2 does grow plants like crazy, but I never liked the red colors I got.

Below is a real world (mostly controlled) comparison. The two pics below are from the same tank with most of the same plants, and taken with the same camera. The first pic was all grown with a Ray 2. I then proceeded to do dumb things and nearly killed all of the plants in my tank. I then nursed them back to life with 2 Current Satellite Plus lights.

So, same CO2, same fert dosing, same substrate, mostly the same plants but different lights.

First, full disclosure in the interest of science: the lighting of the Current Satellite Plus picture is not FULL bright. It's a dimmed sunset mix that's a bit warmer and prettier for photos. This is how my lights run from about 8pm until 10pm. The Ray 2 light also has 4 auxiliary strips of 5050 SMD RGB LED's running at 100% red, so it's also looking better than it normally would. Yes, the CSP sunset mode does enhance colors and make everything more beautiful, but the Ray2 is getting some help too. 

That aside, you can clearly see the difference in the ludwigia sp. red leaves in the back left corner, and the alternanthera reineckii mini in the middle. It's not just a different lighting mode — the reds are far more red with the CSP. With the Ray 2 the reds are darker and more purple. 

If you want a full bright CSP picture that's not in sunset mode for a more real comparison, I can take one tonight.

Ray2:










Dual Current Satellite Plus:


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

wow guys! thanks for all the quick responses,

1) as far as water chemistry and ferts, its not my first planted tank. I do EI dose, add iron, and CO2. My current loss of color in tank is due to the failure of half my lighting system, but Im glad the post on ferts were added more so for the people who just scan through post looking for (how to get red plants), Stressing Plants Is NOT The Way To Get Red.

2) Its seem that finnex are great lights and work well at growing plants but they don't appear to be what in looking for as far as coloration and saturation of reds.

AnotherHobby, I would like that if u don't mind. 
And am i correct that i will still need 2 fixtures to cover the 36''x18" footprint? Because when i bought my current 4x T5 setup it left too much of the front and back of my tank looking dark so i disassembled it and used the parts to make a diy


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Nathan.G said:


> Stressing Plants Is NOT The Way To Get Red.


Yes it is.. just not a very "healthy" way..


> The argument for less NO3 is well founded for more stressed plants = more red. But this is walking the tight rope so to speak. Too much limitation of N= stunting and BGA. Too little limitation= not the desired effect.
> There are many other factors relating to Red color than iron and N however.


Just going off Mr. Barr's report.. 
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/10332-Iron-amp-Red-Plants


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

i just so a pic or one of Tom"s tanks (at least I'm pretty sure it was him, same username) it was on a nother forum. Titled "dutch something or the other'' awesome tank wonder what light he used, pretty sure it wasn't led tho


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

Nathan.G said:


> AnotherHobby, I would like that if u don't mind.
> And am i correct that i will still need 2 fixtures to cover the 36''x18" footprint? Because when i bought my current 4x T5 setup it left too much of the front and back of my tank looking dark so i disassembled it and used the parts to make a diy


You would want 2 CSP fixtures for that, or probably 1 of their new Eco series elevated above the tank. Check out Brian_Cali77's journal to see that light.

Below is an unedited shot of my tank just now with 6500k whites at full bright (which is why the fish are in focus). Not optimal photo time since on Sunday I just did a big trim of the DHG belem in front and heavy trimming of the hydrocotyle tripartita sp. Japan. I didn't even bother to remove my surface skimmer for this. 

I feel this is a much more _fair_ comparison than my sexy sunset pics, which is why I offered to take a pic for you.

During my Sunday trim I cut down a bunch of ludwigia sp. red in the back corner, so that's hard to compare. The color is overall warmer and the alternanthera reineckii mini looks way better. The light is also more evenly spread out since I have two fixtures (which was $166 off Amazon).










And repeated from above for an easy side by side comparison, the Finnex Ray 2:










Keep in mind this is not nearly as warm as the Ray 2 normally is. I had 4 two foot strips of SMD 5050 RGB LED's at 100% red to help it out. Also the background color difference in the two pics above is because I've painted the room neutral gray since the pic was taken, so the Ray 2 also has a warmer terra-cotta background helping it.

This was an animated GIF comparison I made back when I first installed the RGB's to show how much more red I got when I turned them on (took a pic with them on, then off, then animated it):










I'm not trying to bash the Ray 2. Seriously, I got excellent growth from that light, as evidenced by the above picture. 

I just don't think it's as warm and colorful of a light, and I don't think it promotes red plant growth as well as my new ones. 

There are other LED lights that can do red plants well too, so I'd do a little research if red plants are something you really want.


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

ThisDarkDivide said:


> Ive a Mr. Aqua 60 cube (24x24x24) with 2 Kessil Amazon Sun A150WE's on it. My Ludwigia Peruensis was recently trimmed as it was over 2 feet tall on several stems.
> 
> These plants LOVE the kessil led's and they look awesome under it. A nice blood red color
> 
> :icon_twis


I checked those lights out, my concern is the spread of light, looks like i would still need 2. and thats a steep price for a first outing in to led lights, plus whats the distance from water surface to the light?


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## djronin47 (Jun 30, 2014)

What fixture(s) are you running on that tank?



AnotherHobby said:


> You would want 2 CSP fixtures for that, or probably 1 of their new Eco series elevated above the tank. Check out Brian_Cali77's journal to see that light.
> 
> Below is an unedited shot of my tank just now with 6500k whites at full bright (which is why the fish are in focus). Not optimal photo time since on Sunday I just did a big trim of the DHG belem in front and heavy trimming of the hydrocotyle tripartita sp. Japan. I didn't even bother to remove my surface skimmer for this.
> 
> ...


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

djronin47 said:


> What fixture(s) are you running on that tank?


Current Sat+ x2.


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## djronin47 (Jun 30, 2014)

guess i skimmed over that part a little too quickly.

wish i knew what depth substrate is there from the lights

I am in process of trying to figure out what second LED light to get.

I have a 26G tank, between 15-16" back to front slope from the single CSP+ I have on it now.

Not sure and keep debating getting a second CSP+, a planted+, ray2, or such.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

djronin47 said:


> guess i skimmed over that part a little too quickly.
> 
> wish i knew what depth substrate is there from the lights
> 
> ...


Get a second CSP+.


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## djronin47 (Jun 30, 2014)

would with the depth I have still be able to support both medium, and a few plants that require borderline medium to high lighting?



gus6464 said:


> Get a second CSP+.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

djronin47 said:


> wish i knew what depth substrate is there from the lights


Does this help? It's spot on.


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## djronin47 (Jun 30, 2014)

It does help.
How wide is your tank?


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

Just to toss some buildmyLED.com pics in there...here you go using 10,000K fixtures on my 135gal. I absolutely love the red colors I get out of the ARs & L. reds. I've got about 100 PAR at the substrate in the front. They grow like crazy under these LEDs as well...the tank literally looks different every 2 weeks. So, staying up on trimming can be a bare at times...I also think dimming them to 75-85% power looks even better.

pic from April (BML 10,000K at 100% power)







[/URL]


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

jfynyson said:


> Just to toss some buildmyLED.com pics in there...here you go using 10,000K fixtures on my 135gal. I absolutely love the red colors I get out of the ARs & L. reds. I've got about 100 PAR at the substrate in the front. They grow like crazy under these LEDs as well..
> 
> [


You must be injecting CO2 as well I suppose Jfynyson.

Michel.


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

Yep. 20 lbs refilled every 80 days.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

djronin47 said:


> It does help.
> How wide is your tank?


60cm, which is just under 24" wide. It's 12" deep.



jfynyson said:


> Just to toss some buildmyLED.com pics in there...here you go using 10,000K fixtures on my 135gal. I absolutely love the red colors I get out of the ARs & L. reds. I've got about 100 PAR at the substrate in the front. They grow like crazy under these LEDs as well...the tank literally looks different every 2 weeks. So, staying up on trimming can be a bare at times...I also think dimming them to 75-85% power looks even better.
> 
> pic from April (BML 10,000K at 100% power)


Another excellent example of LEDs that grow and show reds well! roud:


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

What about me?


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

jfynyson said:


> Just to toss some buildmyLED.com pics in there...here you go using 10,000K fixtures on my 135gal.
> 
> 
> just got off the phone with BML. they suggest 2 of the h.o, because of how deep my tank is 1 of the 10k and one of the 63k plus a dimmer to run half power am i missing anything cause its getting spendy


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

Nathan.G said:


> jfynyson said:
> 
> 
> > Just to toss some buildmyLED.com pics in there...here you go using 10,000K fixtures on my 135gal.
> ...


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

FlyingHellFish said:


> What about me?


Nice! There is plenty of room. Jump on board!


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

yeah the h.o is the is the original series and the V.H.O are the xb, now i have the three choices to decide between all have pros and cons

c.s.l.+ most budget friendly and cool features, but least powerful and most of the features are not my thing

Ray2, good par to sub. but fixed color and i have email the company live 3 times no response or help. i would like to see it in person but no one sells it around here

BML looks to be the front runner, best output-almost overkill, sleek design, but it gets a little pricey. almost triple of the others, definitely going to put it on my ADA p120 (and that will i get my divorce, or the cause of it!)

Bump: Once u have the current sat + set the way u like it, will a standard light timer mess with the set up (the loss of power when off?)


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ Take a look at the E-series, you can control the colour leds and it has a timer. 

You can also play around with the fertilizers to get more red/less colour/diff shape. 










You can starve the plants of Nitrogen for a quick red hue, but I wouldn't keep them starving too long. I notice that "wide" or "full spectrum" lighting gets my plants turning red faster than plain 6500K, well in my tanks anyways. 


@jfy

The light in my picture is 2x MicMol, I'm not sure if it's full spectrum but it is defiantly a "wider" spectrum. I was going to put the E-series on my 60P but decide to go for a long ADA 60-F instead, indecisive ..... it's the male version of shoe shopping.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

AnotherHobby said:


> 60cm, which is just under 24" wide. It's 12" deep.
> 
> 
> 
> Another excellent example of LEDs that grow and show reds well! roud:


Might as well be the CO2 injection or the light or both. 

Michel.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

micheljq said:


> Might as well be the CO2 injection or the light or both.
> 
> Michel.



How would the CO2 injection explain the difference between my two lights when they both had identical CO2 injection? I don't follow.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

AnotherHobby said:


> How would the CO2 injection explain the difference between my two lights when they both had identical CO2 injection? I don't follow.


Sorry I was looking at Jfynyson's quote in your email for example.

You do not speak about CO2 levels in your example either or i misread something. I could have assumed CO2 levels were the same but anyway if you say so i believe you.

Edit : found it i must take the habit of reading all, all, and all. I have to hit my head to remember this.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

FlyingHellFish said:


> You can starve the plants of Nitrogen for a quick red hue, but I wouldn't keep them starving too long. I notice that "wide" or "full spectrum" lighting gets my plants turning red faster than plain 6500K, well in my tanks anyways.


Nice tank BTW. When you say full spectrum gets them red faster than 6500k what are you referring to as full spectrum?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

In theory, the more useable light the plants get, the faster results you get. Maybe full spectrum not the best description, I believe a wider spectrum is better.

I got better colouring from a full spectrum CFL vs the bulb that lights up my kitchen.


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

checked e-series thats about the same cheddar as bml but less power mores features, is that about right? 

Thanks for the suggestions keep em coming. got about 2-3 weeks before i make my decision and due to all the input from ya'll the list of lights is growing and here i though it was going to be hard to find some


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

Ok made my decision, doing the BML 63k &10k with the splitter and dimmer, call me crazy but I'd rather have too much light that i can dial back than not enough. i have yet to hear anyone complain about their lights, but have herd complaint about all the others. and as far as features like rain storms or a remote, don't need em cause ill never use em.

But if any one thinks I'm making a fatal error please speak up! nothing worse than buyers remorse


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

Getting the manual or auto dimmer? If you're thinking about the manual dimmer then make sure you read the positives and negatives. Also are getting XB or standard series BML?


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

just the original series , and i was going for the manual figured that would work best if i still wanted to us my automaton i have now, pool guy so i had an automation system that i comverted to my aquarium its even set up to work in conjunction with my co2 (built in ph monitor)


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

back on the fence $600 is an awful lot of cheddar, thats more than i wanted to spend


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

so i received 2 of the sat+ with a dual ramp timer. A coming for T5HO lights i was highly disappointed. First one of the lights didn't work out of the box. Second the dual ramp timer did not work as i had hoped. like i said before i don't really care about the features of he light just need to come on at a certain time and shut off at a certain. the timer will not shut the light all the way off just to 7% and thats not good enough for me. and third damn are those lights dim! even one t5 hanging 12" above tank was brighter than on sat + almost on tp of the water. So if u are using t5's and thinking about led's stay away for the sat +, I knew i should have just bit the bullet and went BML! Now i have to wait for my refunds to come through


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Nathan.G said:


> timer will not shut the light all the way off just to 7% and thats not good enough for me. and third damn are those lights dim! even one t5 hanging 12" above tank was brighter than on sat + almost on tp of the water. So if u are using t5's and thinking about led's stay away for the sat +, I knew i should have just bit the bullet and went BML! Now i have to wait for my refunds to come through


You do know the BML'd don't dim to zero either.. You will need a secondary timer.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

Nathan.G said:


> so i received 2 of the sat+ with a dual ramp timer. A coming for T5HO lights i was highly disappointed. First one of the lights didn't work out of the box. Second the dual ramp timer did not work as i had hoped. like i said before i don't really care about the features of he light just need to come on at a certain time and shut off at a certain. the timer will not shut the light all the way off just to 7% and thats not good enough for me. and third damn are those lights dim! even one t5 hanging 12" above tank was brighter than on sat + almost on tp of the water. So if u are using t5's and thinking about led's stay away for the sat +, I knew i should have just bit the bullet and went BML! Now i have to wait for my refunds to come through


Current publishes the PAR numbers right on their site. 36 PAR at just 12" deep is the low end of medium lighting. It's not like they advertised them as being really bright. I loved the color customizing, dimming, and fading with mine (used my own external controller), and I liked the spread of having 2 lights, but they weren't bright. They seem about right for their rating, and they did grow nice plants for me.

Now I have an E-series, and it's a lot brighter than the dual Sat+ setup. I don't have quite as even of a spread as I had before, but it's still pretty good and I'm much happier with this light. It also costs 2x as much as the Sat+ (but I won mine for free!).


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

Nathan.G said:


> Ok made my decision, doing the BML 63k &10k with the splitter and dimmer, call me crazy but I'd rather have too much light that i can dial back than not enough. i have yet to hear anyone complain about their lights, but have herd complaint about all the others. and as far as features like rain storms or a remote, don't need em cause ill never use em.
> 
> But if any one thinks I'm making a fatal error please speak up! nothing worse than buyers remorse


I am also replacing a T5HO setup... I have a 3x fixture over a 75 gallon and the spread is terrible / I am going to need new bulbs soon. Tanks is way too wide for that light - all my tall stems lean towards the middle...

I just ordered prettymuch this same combo... I have a 48" tank so it was expensive ($800 shipped for everything). Both fixtures have very similar PAR (the planted 10000K is much more powerful than other fixtures so I paired with the dutch XB)

6300K Dutch XB - 90 degree spread
10000K Planted Original - 90 degree spread
SoLunar timer / dimmer

Like your previous post I figured that having way more light than I need any having the flexibility to dim them and use sunrise/sunset is great for long-term. I've already spent too much money on crap that I will just want to upgrade eventually. I'm hoping I get at least 2-3+ years out of these (AT LEAST). Read a lot of good things so I'm ready for them to be awesome. If not then I will return and accept the loss in shipping $$$

Also I don't care that the dimmer only goes down to 10%... I can easily put them on the timer my T5HO lights are on now... Timer comes on -> lights come on already dimmed at 10% -> sunrise -> sunset to 10% -> timer off. Not a problem

if you are unhappy with your fixtures I will be posting about how this setup works out in a few weeks when I get the fixtures / have time to see a difference. Not surprised that you are disappointed because those sat fixtures are very low par / weak. Wayyyyy less output than your T5HO had... The BML setup will produce stupid amounts of light - cost is very heavy up front but long term I think it will be worth it. Looking forward to it.

Also the main reason I want new lights is because my red plants are very green and I am sick and tired of it.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

klibs said:


> Also I don't care that the dimmer only goes down to 10%... I can easily put them on the timer my T5HO lights are on now... Timer comes on -> lights come on already dimmed at 10% -> sunrise -> sunset to 10% -> timer off. Not a problem


As an early "champion" for BML, even suggesting to Foster and Smith to carry the line.. I just need to be consistent w/ pros and cons.. As to why it is as it is..Just an FYI



> Hi guys. Our drivers do not have a signal to turn the fixture off. Our drivers use the 0-10V dimming standard, which is a globally recognized dimming protocol. As a dimming control, our fixtures dim from 10%-100% via the 0-10V signals. If you want to turn the drivers completely off, you need to add a relay to the power line (i.e. timer outlet, ES8 from Apex, etc.). After working with the guys at Neptune, our fixtures now work seamlessly with Apex controllers.
> 
> Nick


http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/24883-led-0-10v-dimming-controller-help/


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

Definitely! 
It's good that they make their drivers work with different controllers. A lot of people knock them for their drivers inability to perform functions like this though - definitely a con to weigh in.

It would be nice and slightly more convenient for the dimmer to include an on/off feature by going down to 0% but it's certainly not a deal breaker for me.

Would be pretty cool if DFS carried the common BML fixtures but I don't think it would work out as well as some other LED manufacturers. BML's philosophy is heavy on the fact that they hand-make every fixture fresh for your order / having the ability to customize your light to any spectrum that you would like. From what I have seen through ordering from them they take pride in customer service / the ability to fully support anyone with their knowledgeable staff. Their company is heavy on helping their customers directly and giving exceptional customer service. You can be sure that the people who are making the fixtures have your needs in mind and you feel 'special' that your fixture was hand-made just for you. Seems to me like they want to avoid being just another lighting retailer and provide a superior service. 3rd party retailers may only do them injustice in this respect.

On the flip side DFS is a very popular online retailer and the exposure could get their name out there to different people...

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread - just some thoughts after mentioning DFS selling something like this...


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

Having a timer doesn't bother me either. the biggest issue with the current dimmer is, If it won't take it to 0% and it does save all the programming when it has no power (as in an timer situation) why does it default to the manual mode, instead of the preset program? I had to hit the resume button when i got off work. and doing that every day, why have the timer at all then? 
I didn't plan on doing a product review, but i definitely don't feel the product lived up to my expectations


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

I'm pretty sure if you don't like it you can send it back to BML


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Reading this thread makes me think a couple more years of buying bulbs isn't a bad idea.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

BruceF said:


> Reading this thread makes me think a couple more years of buying bulbs isn't a bad idea.


bulbs can't do this easily.. 
http://www.marineland.com/Products/...led-aquarium-lighting-for-aquatic-plants.aspx

Each company/tech has its strength and weaknesses..


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Sure they can. Even a spiral bulb can do it. In good time the problems will be worked out. the prices will come down and the fixtures will actually merit the cost over time reputation.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

BruceF said:


> Sure they can. Even a spiral bulb can do it. In good time the problems will be worked out. the prices will come down and the fixtures will actually merit the cost over time reputation.


spiral bulb can do what fade from deep red to cool white?? 
Go from 3000k to 14000k???

Try "ramping up" a cfl over an hours time..


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Oh you do like to argue don't you! As Nathan pointed out you just can't turn the damn thing off! Lots to fix and very little actual results so far.


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

I wasn't able to stop the second order from amazon. haven't got the refund for the broken light yet either. but 2 more of the current lights showed up. and i have to say that having 3 of the lights on my tank made a huge difference! looks pretty damn good with 3. Plant are all pearling nicely. and i may just keep them. the controller is a waste for these lights tho. And will definitely be gong back.


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

I let google do some walking for me, and it pulled up this link
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=391265&highlight=arduino

Now i have no where the kind of skill to attempt something like this not even close (I have a hard enough time trying to figure out the ins and out of this forum, Hell my gmail account confuses the sh!t out of me on most days). Im pretty sure i could work all the hardware but the programing might as well be in greek. 
His design is something that current should have come up with for these lights as a controller/timer. are u kidding me that idea is awesome! i have to give Indychus his props!

Im going to talk to one of the guys at the local electronic store and see if i cant pay him to put one together for me, or if any one wants to drop a line to current and see if they won't put something like this in the works, maybe Anotherhobby seeing as they give u free lights. (Little jealous) i never win anything!


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

It all went back on monday. Sat+ are fine lights but don't really do what i bought them to do, and unless ur MacGyver automating them to ramp up and down is not going to happen, if u are just wanting the lights to come on with the remote or play with the settings great lights. 2 did not suit the intensity of light i was looking for, 3 did a awesome job on a 40b. Excellent coverage with 3, got the plants to pearl pretty good.I might be crazy but I'm sure i lost some color on my Ludwigia red and red rotolia tho. 

BML is discontinuing the regular series of lights so now I'm in XB pricing! and with the extra of the SoLunar controller were at 650. they do have the new beta testing version of the color adjusting light tho. E-series is looking better and only 550 for 2. but will 2 do the trick? i wish my LFS would put these light on some of their tanks to get a better feel. i hate buying stuff blindly. back to the drawing board!


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

2x Radion XR15FW's have all the control you want and super easy to setup and right in between the E-series and BML at $600. The ecotech light control software is also light years ahead of those two.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

gus6464 said:


> 2x Radion XR15FW's have all the control you want and super easy to setup and right in between the E-series and BML at $600. The ecotech light control software is also light years ahead of those two.


splitting the difference..
add custom spectrum:
http://reefbreeders.com/shop/photon-32/


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

thx for all the input and i did check out both of ur suggestions. 
With BML dropping the original series plus with the added cost of the controller. i decided to go with the E-series, i hoping (fingers crosses) that 2 will give me the coverage I'm looking for. if not i may come up with a way to hang them with some steel conduit or drop the cheddar on a third. Also i had quite a loss of red coloration in my Rotala with the 3 Sat+, could have been due to the change of light, or they weren't intense enough, they did bounce right back when i hooked the T5's back up. hopefully i won't have that with the E-series,they seem be pretty powerful.
Time will tell, as they should arrive tomorrow or wednesday.


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

got the lights on wed. like the looks, like the intensity and they have been running for about 5 days, starting to get a little concerned my Rotala seem to have lost some of its color. I'm just hoping this is due to the change of the light and the plants just readjusting or something. I have changed the color spectrum to the dutch planted in hopes that this will help. maybe i should ask the guys over in the e-series club.
I am definetly going to have to hang the light or get a third,I have plants in the far back of the tank that the tops are in the dark.


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

Ok 2 months in and the rotala hasn't gain the red that it once had. The lights are fine and my other red plants are good. happy with the product for the most part. It just seems that the disbursement of light is different, were the t5 would flood the tank with light these seem to be more direct. Under a piece of drift wood i have plants growing on the HC used to thrive. Now its mostly died off, its in shaded area, some thing i never had with the t5s. That being said even with all the bugs and tweaking i have had to do i am very glad i made the switch. I don't know if i would purchase the same brand again but I'm sold on the LED


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## Nathan.G (Aug 4, 2014)

I started to have some issues with my HC and decided to test and see what my par was. 2 Ecoxotic E-90's on a 40b maxed out in the white and red only gave me 120-105 in about 90% of my tank, and areas where i have plants casting a shadow i am still getting about 85 par So If some one is looking for that info... Their u go


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Nathan.G said:


> I started to have some issues with my HC and decided to test and see what my par was. 2 Ecoxotic E-90's on a 40b maxed out in the white and red only gave me 120-105 in about 90% of my tank, and areas where i have plants casting a shadow i am still getting about 85 par So If some one is looking for that info... Their u go


That is still a lot of PAR but one thing.. The Exotic is still short on red (almost zero in the 8000K's and a few watts in the rgb's).. Using 8000K whites isn't what I would have chosen.
A single is rated at 60PAR @18" Seems about what you are getting (x 2 of course)
From the sound of it, what PAR would you have liked??


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