# 70 Gallon Dutch-Inspired



## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Plant list
https://flic.kr/p/2jv2WSC


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Very nice. Great plant health, good grouping and trimming... I'm working on those skills myself.

Are you in Japan? I've never seen that soil before.



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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Beautiful! I like the dimensions of the tank. You have used the 24" depth very effectively.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

gjcarew said:


> Very nice. Great plant health, good grouping and trimming... I'm working on those skills myself.
> 
> Are you in Japan? I've never seen that soil before.
> 
> ...


Thanks!
Yes, I'm living in Japan ATM. 
The soil is quite nice and cheap. Low in nutrient though. I often use it (in powder form) to cover ADA aquasoil.
I think it's quite popular in Europe too. Saw some stores in Hungary promoting this aquasoil.

Bump:


billb said:


> Beautiful! I like the dimensions of the tank. You have used the 24" depth very effectively.


Thanks!
24" gives lots more space to create depth. I've had 18" tank and found it's difficult to add midground groups without feeling cramped.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Wow!

Not often someone comes out of the gate with a presentation like that!!!

Beautiful mix of healthy looking plants. All colors well placed and meticulously trimmed. 

Very, very well done. 

I love it. Subscribed and keep the updates coming.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> Wow!
> 
> Not often someone comes out of the gate with a presentation like that!!!
> 
> ...


Thank Gregg!
You're always generous with kind words!
Glad you enjoy the pic!


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## fatblonde (Jul 14, 2020)

Your tank is absolutely stunning! So gorgeous!

Bump: I can't imagine anyone criticizing it. I'm just trying to figure out how to subscribe and/or follow you!


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## Notg2009 (Feb 6, 2016)

A beautiful piece of art!! Is the wall a collection of those 2x2 meshes?

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## Nature Freak (Sep 30, 2019)

You're new to this? Wow just wow. It's beautiful. 

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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

fatblonde said:


> Your tank is absolutely stunning! So gorgeous!
> 
> Bump: I can't imagine anyone criticizing it. I'm just trying to figure out how to subscribe and/or follow you!


Thank you!



Notg2009 said:


> A beautiful piece of art!! Is the wall a collection of those 2x2 meshes?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Yes, they're all 2x2" meshes. As the moss grows in, you can't see the boundaries between the meshes. This way, I can change the size and shape of the moss wall easily. 



Nature Freak said:


> You're new to this? Wow just wow. It's beautiful.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Thanks!
Yes, compared to many others here, I'm pretty new to the hobby. This is my second year. I still have a lot to learn :nerd:.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

nntnam said:


> Yes, compared to many others here, I'm pretty new to the hobby. This is my second year. I still have a lot to learn :nerd:.


From what I can see, you have been a quick study! 

Not sure how it can get much better, but I get the mind set to keep learning and improving. I've been doing that for years.
@burr740 you should drop in here.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

I for one am not much for Dutch gardens normally but this one is fantastic. Think the covered walls is what makes it special in my eyes, together with healthy plants and pleasing composition of course.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Great journal! Im glad you posted this tank here. looks even better than the last time I saw it on fb. You entering the aga right?


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

Damn! Wasn't expecting to see something this nice when I opened the thread. Incredible Dutch tank and plants! Well done.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> From what I can see, you have been a quick study!
> 
> Not sure how it can get much better, but I get the mind set to keep learning and improving. I've been doing that for years.
> 
> @burr740 you should drop in here.


Thanks! I also love reading and learning new stuff everyday. 



Hujeta said:


> I for one am not much for Dutch gardens normally but this one is fantastic. Think the covered walls is what makes it special in my eyes, together with healthy plants and pleasing composition of course.


Thanks! Moss wall is one of the reason I love Dutch tanks. 



burr740 said:


> Great journal! Im glad you posted this tank here. looks even better than the last time I saw it on fb. You entering the aga right?


Thanks burr!
Your journal really inspired me to try Dutchstyle. 
Yes, I'm thinking about entering AGA. Just to see how the judge would comment :laugh2:. 
Actually I didn't intend to enter any contest since it's my first try. So the timing is bad. The walls are deteriorating. Both the moss and hydrocotyle are getting yellow at the base and detaching. 
Also still need to get rid of at least 2 more species. Trying to make small changes without destroying the scape.

On the side note, I recently decided to switch to T5 and T8 in the farm tank. 
For some reason, my mac variegated decided to grow the biggest, fattest leaves I've ever seen, coincidence? >
This plant always gives me headache. It rarely stunt but the leaves are often curled and ugly. 

https://flic.kr/p/2jvrC87


https://flic.kr/p/2jvrCZT​


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

LRJ said:


> Damn! Wasn't expecting to see something this nice when I opened the thread. Incredible Dutch tank and plants! Well done.


Thank you!


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## FischAutoTechGarten (Jul 11, 2003)

nice plants. i don't know why, but one of those tanks reminds me of a DIY conversion van my dad might have had in the early 70s...


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## n70me (May 8, 2017)

Stunning tank!!! 

Can you please tell us what Fe ,trace mix you are using CSM+B? or DIY?


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## eethomp (Jul 20, 2020)

This is stunning! You have a great eye for composition and the plants look vibrantly healthy.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

The AGA deadline is exteneded to mid-Oct this year due to covid. There's plenty of time to tweak a few things. You should definitely do it!


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

n70me said:


> Stunning tank!!!
> 
> Can you please tell us what Fe ,trace mix you are using CSM+B? or DIY?


Thanks. I use CSM+B for Fe and trace.

Bump: Checked the moss tile yesterday. They're all brown and dead underneath...
https://flic.kr/p/2jw6KTb​
This probably due to the lack of trimming, or maybe the bad quality moss (small, chopped up pieces) that I used to make the tiles. I though they would fuse together after awhile. 

Strongly suspect the later reason as this never happened before, when I use big chunks of moss. 
Coral moss can grow really thick without any problems. (see image below)
https://flic.kr/p/2jwadjE ​

Decided to remake the wall.
https://flic.kr/p/2jw6KUt​


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## butchblack (Oct 25, 2019)

Absolutely gorgeous tank. Do you have an art or design background?


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

butchblack said:


> Absolutely gorgeous tank. Do you have an art or design background?


Thanks. 
I work as a researcher :nerd:
However, one of my hobbies is photography.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Redid the Lud. sp. red today. 

Right after the trimming
https://flic.kr/p/2jx4REQ

After the replanting
https://flic.kr/p/2jx8dV2

Fishes have been acting weird last few days. Hiding and not eating well. Signs of too much co2. Probably due to the remaking of moss walls. 
This was also previously observed by burr. Moss wall probably acts as a co2 sponge.


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

Beautiful tank! Thank you for sharing it here.


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## Shrimpz (Jan 11, 2011)

nntnam said:


> 24" gives lots more space to create depth. I've had 18" tank and found it's difficult to add midground groups without feeling cramped.


Man, thats exactly what I was afraid of when deciding against a 90 gallon (48x18x24) vs 120 galllon (48x24x24). I ended up with the 90 gallon because I found a good deal, and thought 18" would still be ok.


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## belka085 (May 10, 2020)

Absolutely gobsmacked. If this is 2 years culmination, I cannot wait for what the next 2 years will bring. Hopefully the moss wall stops being so stubborn! But really fantastic job and thanks for sharing.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Shrimpz said:


> Man, thats exactly what I was afraid of when deciding against a 90 gallon (48x18x24) vs 120 galllon (48x24x24). I ended up with the 90 gallon because I found a good deal, and thought 18" would still be ok.


18" is fine. Most nicer Dutch tanks I've seen are 18". 
Recently I found that 24" causes trouble too. It's harder to make a street/group/bush that stretches from the front to the back glass without becoming too big and overpowers the neighbor bushes/groups.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Look what the cat dragged in!
https://flic.kr/p/2jzA1Mi 

48" 10-bulbs-fixture from KZ. Made in Germoney! Brandnew and at a bargain price. 

Decided to abandon all my LED and move to T5. 
I blame all the nice journals here for this >


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## SirNut (Aug 21, 2020)

nntnam said:


> Look what the cat dragged in!
> 
> 
> 48" 10-bulbs-fixture from KZ. Made in Germoney! Brandnew and at a bargain price.
> ...





Absolutely gorgeous tank. Definitely subscribing




Care to elaborate on the switch from LED to T5? I've been in the hobby for a while, but I've just recently been expanding my online resources!


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

SirNut said:


> Absolutely gorgeous tank. Definitely subscribing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks.
It's just personal preference I guess. I recently installed a 4-bulb t5 fixture for my farm tank. Then I just realize I spend more time looking at the farm tank than my main tank lol. 
T5 may lack that punchy Red/Green contrast of high-end RGB led, but it seems to render colors much better. You can easily see the subtle differences between similarly shaded color like yellow-ish green vs green, or orange-ish red vs red. 
The ability to mix T5 bulbs to create the color you want is another big reason.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

The bulbs are here! 

From left to right:
1. Giesemann Aquaflora
2. Giesemann Aquaflora
3. Giesemann Aquapink
4. 2700K 
5. PowerVeg 660
6. Giesemann Actinic plus
7. Giesemann Midday
8. Giesemann Aquapink
9. Giesemann Aquaflora
10. Giesemann Aquaflora
https://flic.kr/p/2jBxMKV​
All bulbs ON
https://flic.kr/p/2jBtw24​
The color saturation is INSANE!


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## zer0signal (Jun 10, 2015)

WOW - the looks glorious!


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## sudhirr (Apr 12, 2019)

Mesmerising. 


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Very interesting to see the T5's over the tank. Most don't realize that most of the best Dutch style tanks in the world use T5.

Stunning picture with excellent color separation. 

Of course, helps to start with good subject matter, and you have got that covered.

Wonderful tank. Looking forward to seeing what if any other differences you notice.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Amazing tank and the new lights bring out all of the color. Well done!

I notice you incorporated some hair grass. Is it E. vivipara or E. acicularis?


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> Very interesting to see the T5's over the tank. Most don't realize that most of the best Dutch style tanks in the world use T5.
> 
> Stunning picture with excellent color separation.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
I'm just following the steps of the masters >. Switching to T5 is inevitable >
Need to see how the plants react to the new light. I'm worrying the intensity could be too high. 

Been growing very nice looking rotala mac variegated and sunset in the farm tank. The Rotala sunset is almost triple in size.
https://flic.kr/p/2jBKCwB 
https://flic.kr/p/2jBPLzw

Seriously thinking about using the Mac Variegated in the display tank. Just need some more time to master the plant and their habits. Due to their leaves size and stunning neon color, they could be used as a small midground group of a few plants, just to draw attention to their area. 
Still, no idea how to use the sunset lol :grin2:

Bump:


billb said:


> Amazing tank and the new lights bring out all of the color. Well done!
> 
> I notice you incorporated some hair grass. Is it E. vivipara or E. acicularis?


Thanks. 
Not a hair grass. 
It's the Eriocaulon sp. feather duster.


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## ryubui (Jul 14, 2014)

Very nice scape! I left T5's for cost reasons and not wanting to change out the bulbs every 1-2 years....But i do agree they're the best.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

nntnam said:


> Seriously thinking about using the Mac Variegated in the display tank.


I've kept a group of R. Mac Variegated for over three years now. Have stunted it a few times, and it barely survived a couple of "events" I have had over the years. 

But all in all, while it is moody, it also offers a fantastic display when it's happy. I look at it as being an early indicator. In general, if it's happy, so are most other plants.

And in the pic above, it looks very happy. I would use it.

Now the Sunset. I get it's rare and difficult, but also don't really know where I would use it.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Dat light!! :hihi: Great bulb choice, looks amazing


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> I've kept a group of R. Mac Variegated for over three years now. Have stunted it a few times, and it barely survived a couple of "events" I have had over the years.
> 
> But all in all, while it is moody, it also offers a fantastic display when it's happy. I look at it as being an early indicator. In general, if it's happy, so are most other plants.
> 
> ...


Yes, I feel the pain of keeping the Macrandra lol. It's really hard to keep it happy for a long time.
In Asia, people have almost no problem growing the plant. Probably because the fertilizers are usually supplied via roots. I've known a guy keeping it under direct sunlight, no co2, no filter, no flow. Just uses super-super-rich substrate and does daily waterchange. And it grows beautifully in such conditions...

In my tank, the sunset is far less of a hassle. It sometimes stunts but never dies. But I've never been able to grow it this big until now. I've heard it likes higher kH water. My tap is super soft.
https://flic.kr/p/2jBSGb5 

It's a hard plant to scape IMO. Similar texture to the Tonina Fluviatilis, just different colors. Unfortunately, the color is quite dark. Dark green stem with dark orangeish/reddish leaves. Polished internet photos may show a vibrant color. But in my tank, the plant looks hardly visible if placed near any off-green plants. 

IMO, to use it as a group, it needs to be next to or in front of bright green and fine texture groups to make it really visible. This way, the plant is used as a "dark spot" to enhance the contrast of a bright area. Then again, a moss log probably works better for this purpose > . 

Tom Barr used the plant to make a row, which, I think, can be also an effective way to use it.

Bump:


burr740 said:


> Dat light!! :hihi: Great bulb choice, looks amazing


Thanks! 
Coming from LED, my eyes still want some green. Couldn't go all colored bulbs like you or Greggz or Dennis :grin2:.


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## butchblack (Oct 25, 2019)

nntnam said:


> Look what the cat dragged in!
> https://flic.kr/p/2jzA1Mi
> 
> 48" 10-bulbs-fixture from KZ. Made in Germoney! Brandnew and at a bargain price.
> ...


Awfully strong cat. :grin2:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

nntnam said:


> *Fertilization*:
> Macro dosed twice a week, right after the water change.
> Micro dosed daily
> 
> ...


 @nntnam I hope you don't mind me adding something to your journal here.

I was looking at your post in the bulb thread, and thought I would bounce over here to look at your dosing.

One thing that caught my eye is the 80% to 90% water change.

Other folks need to understand how much of a difference that makes when comparing their numbers to yours. For some reason the "normal" way is to post ppm in terms of regular EI 50% water change standard. 

So when you say you dose NO3O4:K at 18.74/7.24/27.49 with 80% water change, that is the same as about 12/4.5/17 if they were 50% water changes.

Just saying it is not as rich as it seems. 

Most folks do not understand or take into account accumulation. You have much less accumulation at 80% water change.

On a side note I tried to get folks here to start thinking in terms of "target" dosing. That is dosing the "new" amount of water to a target. Makes more sense to me because you take the WC percentage out of the calculation. After several convoluted attempts, I gave up.


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## zer0signal (Jun 10, 2015)

Greggz said:


> @nntnam I hope you don't mind me adding something to your journal here.
> 
> I was looking at your post in the bulb thread, and thought I would bounce over here to look at your dosing.
> 
> ...


I never thought of it that way, but that makes absolute sense! Thanks, I'm going to play with this idea with my daily testing!


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## JCombra (Oct 11, 2018)

nntnam said:


> Look what the cat dragged in!
> https://flic.kr/p/2jzA1Mi
> 
> I swear my lights dimmed here in the States when you fired that up !!! :laugh2:
> ...


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Just a minor update.

Bought a PowerVeg 633. Decided to remove all the "white" bulbs.

For comparison, the 660 is the deep red bulb on the left, 633 is the red/orange one on the right in this photo. 
https://flic.kr/p/2jVWdFy

Absolutely love the color of my sunset under the new light. 
Using it in my main tank now. 
https://flic.kr/p/2jVX1XH


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

That Sunset looks fantastic!


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Thanks, Gregg!

Since I won't be able to compete in the AGA 2020, I want to share an FTS from a few weeks ago. 
The tank is a mess with so many mini-groups. Just wanted to try more exotic plants in my tank. To see what works and what doesn't in this tank. 
https://flic.kr/p/2jVZB9t

BTW, this was a recovery from a BBA outbreak from too many rescapings in a short period of time.

Some lessons learned:
- The Pantanal didn't work so well in a diamond shape group. Some stems grow so fast that they can easily stunt the neighbor stems. This makes it difficult to maintain the shape of the group as they're growing in. They were okay when planted in a row. So maybe I'll change it back. 
- The sunset turns out a nice surprise. They color up real nice and contrast well against the hygro. Drama-free too!
- The variegated mac was OK-ish in this tank, but nowhere as nice as the one growing with super-rich substrate and lean water-dosing in the farm tank. 

I guess there's a reason why we don't see those plants being used often in a scape. Too much drama! Growing them beautifully in a farm tank is one thing. Keeping them beautiful in a scape is a totally different story.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Couple of thoughts.

First is I keep a file of my favorite tanks for inspiration, and this is one of them.

Second is that I hope people realize the effort that goes into a presentation like this. The amount of trimming required to create this look is far more than most understand.

You should post before and after trimming pics some time. There is some real attention to detail there. 

Well done sir!


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

ughhh your last pic just makes me drool and think about what would T5 do vs LED but I hate the idea of upgrading bulbs every year. 

Looks beautiful and I am very jealous of your natural water softness


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## Hendy8888 (Mar 6, 2008)

monkeyruler90 said:


> ughhh your last pic just makes me drool and think about what would T5 do vs LED but I hate the idea of upgrading bulbs every year.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks beautiful and I am very jealous of your natural water softness


I do not and don't plan on changing my t5ho bulbs due to old age. BRS investigates did an episode dealing with this subject and found useful bulb life to be much longer than once thought. Much more important in a reef tank than planted tanks. I'm quite fine with any spectrum shift and even with a 20% reduction of PAR If I really want to I'll lower the fixture height to compensate. Almost all the bulbs I'm using have 2-3 years of service so far.
@nntnam Love your tank, keep the pics coming! How do you like the KZ fixture? I don't think I've ever seen one before, do you happen to have some close ups of the fixture itself? Is yours dimmable or multiple power cords?


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> Couple of thoughts.
> 
> First is I keep a file of my favorite tanks for inspiration, and this is one of them.
> 
> ...


Thank you! 
Definitely will show before/after pics next time!
Some people would think it's too much work to keep a Dutch tank. I think this style is perfect for me as I love messing with my tanks.



monkeyruler90 said:


> ughhh your last pic just makes me drool and think about what would T5 do vs LED but I hate the idea of upgrading bulbs every year.
> 
> Looks beautiful and I am very jealous of your natural water softness


As Hendy8888 pointed out, there is no need to change the bulb every year. They last a lot longer than most people think >. 

Agreed that soft water makes things easier, but then again I have to spend more $ on salt to remineralize it. 



Hendy8888 said:


> I do not and don't plan on changing my t5ho bulbs due to old age. BRS investigates did an episode dealing with this subject and found useful bulb life to be much longer than once thought. Much more important in a reef tank than planted tanks. I'm quite fine with any spectrum shift and even with a 20% reduction of PAR If I really want to I'll lower the fixture height to compensate. Almost all the bulbs I'm using have 2-3 years of service so far.
> @nntnam Love your tank, keep the pics coming! How do you like the KZ fixture? I don't think I've ever seen one before, do you happen to have some close ups of the fixture itself? Is yours dimmable or multiple power cords?


Thanks!
Yeah, the fixture not so popular, only seen it in Japan. I don't think KZ makes it themself. It was made by a German company called Seaqualux. My model is SEAQUALUX – F. 
People here say that the PAR is not as high as an ATI fixture. A 10 bulbs KZ fixture only produces about the same PAR as an 8 bulbs ATI fixture at the same distance. 
I like lit. It's super wide which perfectly covers my 24" wide tank. I think they work well for an even wider tank. Made of aluminum so it's quite light and runs cool. 
Not a dimmable fixture. It comes with 3 cords for separate 3 channels. 
It produces more than enough light for my tank. Haning it at 12inches from the water surface ATM. Only run 10 bulbs for 2 hours. The rest of the time is 6 bulbs. 


========
No update today, just want to show off this >
My Buce sp. Ghost is producing a pink variegated stem :grin2:
https://flic.kr/p/2jWiWj6


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## Hendy8888 (Mar 6, 2008)

nntnam said:


> My Buce sp. Ghost is producing a pink variegated stem :grin2:
> https://flic.kr/p/2jWiWj6


What year, make, and model is your Ghost? I really really need to have some restraint seeing all these beautiful 2011 Ghost pictures lately. Such a nice plant.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Year, make, model. . I see what you did there. How about vintage?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

nntnam said:


> https://flic.kr/p/2jWiWj6


That right there is some great plant porn!:grin2:


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Hendy8888 said:


> What year, make, and model is your Ghost? I really really need to have some restraint seeing all these beautiful 2011 Ghost pictures lately. Such a nice plant.


It's the 2011/2012 one. So... the real deal hehe >.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Today I saw a Facebook post which claims roots are pretty much useless in a hi-tech tank. I too believed the same thing when I discovered EI dosing. 

However, recently as I'm moving away from water dosing and focus more on feeding via the roots, I found out that root play just as much an important role as any other parts of the plants. Here are some reasons. 


1/ Root pumps oxygen to the substrate, Mr. Barr said this many times. Coming from the bonsai hobby, it puzzles me how aquatic plants' root can survive in such an anaerobic environment. We can easily "drown" the potted plant if we water it too much or plug the water hole. It turns out aquatic plants can supply oxygen to the roots. This oxygen then leaks to the surrounding areas and helps the bacteria to break down the organics, which then can be consumed by the root. This helps a lot to stabilize the tank, especially during the first few weeks of the tank. IME during this period, the tank usually suffers from the high load of organics from the aquasoil (which may cause algae) until the plant's root is established. 

2/ Root is believed to have a better mechanism to absorb fertilizer than leaves, especially in Lythraceae family (Rotala, Ammannia, etc). I also believe some plants just want to feed via roots. One example is the Eriocaulon Quinquangulare aka King Crimson. Failed so many times with this plant. No amount of co2 or light or fertilizer could grow it. They wouldn't die but wouldn't grow large either. They grow well with new aquasoil but slowly wither away as the soil ages. This happens when I start putting a crazy amount of roots tabs under the plant:
https://flic.kr/p/2k17QPi

3/ With super fast-growing plants like the Pantanal or some fuzzy limnophila, we have to cut them frequently because they reach the surface too quickly. In a Dutch tank, in order to keep the bush pretty, we also tend to keep them at a certain height. So the trimming frequency is even higher. IME this may weaken the stem. After a few times of trimming without letting the root established, I feel the plant takes longer to recover, loses lower leaves. The stem becomes thinner and the top becomes smaller. The ones that spend a long time in the substrate (and have a good roots system) grow bigger and much thicker. 

BTW, this is what happens in my tank. YMMV. 
My theory is that those kinds of plants don't like to stay underwater. They would spend everything to reach the surface as quickly as possible. They become weaker after each attempt. Having a good root system might keep them from starving themself trying to reach the air. I also observed that Tom Barr used to cut his Pantanal pretty short in his 120g journal >. This probably would give the plant time to grow some roots before it needed to be trimmed again. 

Started this group of Lud. Araguaia with the crowns as big as the Pantanal. After weekly repeating uprooting and topping, the crowns are no bigger than the top of a Lud. sp Red. If I cut them short and leave them be, the crowns would grow big again.
https://flic.kr/p/2k19JZZ 

4/ Root is where the plant often stores food. (This is however not true for all the species). Some plants would abandon their old roots as soon as they're exposed (eriocaulon, most stem plant,...) but some plans like P. Helferi or Cryptocoryne would keep the old roots. I usually keep the roots when replanting those plants. Plants are resourceful, perhaps they can salvage their old roots?!:grin2:

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert or major in biology, so take those with a huge grain of salt.>


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## n70me (May 8, 2017)

nice post.

Are you using any root tabs currently or any time before?


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

n70me said:


> nice post.
> 
> Are you using any root tabs currently or any time before?


Thanks. I've used them before. The ADA root tabs. Had to stop because they caused algae when uprooting plants. Also, it was too expensive. 

I've only experimented with root tabs again recently and found that some of my plants grow much much better, especially the Rotala and Eriocaulon. 

Using osmocote mix with some clay-type fertilizer. The capsule size is #1. There are some #000 in the mix too. 
https://flic.kr/p/2k1BboS

Not all root tabs would work well. I've tried about 5 types. Most of the time, the clay-type works best but also more expensive. It causes a bad smell when uprooting the plant, but it grows the fattest Eriocaulon. The slow-release types (like osmocote) only work well if they contain NH3/NH4 or Urea.

I remember Dennis Wong or Tom Barr mentioned that aquasoil can bind PO4, K, iron, and trace but not NO3. Any NO3 in the substrate would leak to the water column quickly. The aquasoil, however, can hold NH3/NH4. Therefore it's better to use the root tab that has plenty of NH3/NH4.


----------



## n70me (May 8, 2017)

Thanks again for sharing this info.

Few Questions:

Are are those brown ones(clay) from ADA or a different product any idea where to buy and what are these called ? 

Have you mixed these clay type and osmocote into gel capsule yourself or you purchased this entire kit somewhere?

Thanks,


----------



## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

n70me said:


> Thanks again for sharing this info.
> 
> Few Questions:
> 
> ...


The ADA one is called Bottom Plus. It's really rich in NH3/NH4 just like amazonia. I was using the whole stick as instruction. And it is supposed to leave undisturbed for a few months. 
Obviously it didn't work well with my weekly uprooting :grin2:. 
If I've ever used it again, I would have cut it into small pieces and used it very sparsely.

I bought the ingredients and made the capsule myself.
I'm from Japan so I have no idea how to buys those stuffs in other countries.


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## n70me (May 8, 2017)

Thanks.

Another question hope you wont mind me asking so many questions .

When you decide to use root tabs under any specific plant/plants...do you alter the water column dosing for that week , like reducing the water column dosing to compensate for any leaks into the water column?


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

n70me said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Another question hope you wont mind me asking so many questions .
> 
> When you decide to use root tabs under any specific plant/plants...do you alter the water column dosing for that week , like reducing the water column dosing to compensate for any leaks into the water column?


I keep the water dosing the same. I don't want to make things too complicated.
I'm making substrate replenishing a part of the tank's maintenance.
ADA Amazonia substrate has a "magic" period (about 1-3 months after setting up) that plants grow amazing well. 
After that, the growth rate significantly slows down. About 12 months in, I think there's no Nitrogen left in the substrate. 
Here in Asia, people often change the substrate when it's depleted of nutrients. 
As a cheapskate, I don't wanna change the substrate every year but still want to maintain a good growth rate. 
Using root tabs is one of the best ways to do so IMO. 

==========================================
Tank update
Straying away from a traditional Dutch tank >. Too many colors. 
The left side is okay. The right side needs some more work. I need to propagate more lotus blossom and sunset to use them as mid-background plants in the right side. 
https://flic.kr/p/2k2wZzq 

https://flic.kr/p/2k2wZzR

Sunset grows extremely well if kept at the right height. It struggles a lot when planted too close to the substrate. But when it's about 15cm or 6 inches from the surface, the plant suddenly changes to beast mode and grows almost as fast as the Pantanal. 
https://flic.kr/p/2k1AHTB

Left side.
 
BBA on the nana and ghost is dying off after I fix the co2.


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## n70me (May 8, 2017)

Great layout of plants. That tripartita is nicely used to cover the filter hoses.


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## Notg2009 (Feb 6, 2016)

Could you comment a bit on your maintenance routine? Substrate vacuuming? How do you trim when stems are too compact next to each other? Uproot a group, trim, and replant?

Your maintenance and husbandry levels are amazing!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

n70me said:


> Great layout of plants. That tripartita is nicely used to cover the filter hoses.


Thanks. The tripartita wasn’t planted there. They grow themselves out of the tank . I thought it would look cool so I leave it there. 



Notg2009 said:


> Could you comment a bit on your maintenance routine? Substrate vacuuming? How do you trim when stems are too compact next to each other? Uproot a group, trim, and replant?
> 
> Your maintenance and husbandry levels are amazing!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Thanks, 

Daily maintenance is mostly removing dead leaves while watching the tank. This is to reduce the organics in the tank. Dead leaves can dissolve very quickly. 

Water change is done twice a week. About 80-90% each time. 

Substrate vacuuming is done once or twice a month while doing WC. It’s highly recommended. Every time I get red algae (BBA or staghorn algae), I always do more vacuuming and within a few weeks, they’re gone. BBA mostly appear due to too much flow/fluctuation of co2 or too much light, but apparently it is also caused by too much organics. Frequently uprooting plants makes the matter worse. When I see BBA on the hardscape or equipments, but not the plants, I know that the tank needs more substrate cleaning. 

Filter cleaning is done every two months or monthly if I have time. This is not recommended in other type of aquarium since it disturbs with the BB colony in the filters. However, in a planted tank, plants remove most of the ammonia. Filter cleaning removes the organics which then reduces the biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) of the tank. Since we don’t need a large colony of BBs to chew all the organics waste, there is more oxygen available to the plants and the fishes. This hugely improves fish and plant’s health.

IMO, all the reducing organic waste above is crucial in a high energy system with the canister filters. It’s almost always oxygen limited. If you’re using a sump or running a low energy tank, I think it’s not really that important. 

Plants maintenance is done whenever any of the plant groups reaches the surface. First uproot the plant -> remove the bottom -> lightly vacuuming the area -> replant the tops. Leave some space between the groups, like 2 inches/5cm so the group would barely touch each other when they grow out. This helps improving the group-to-group contrast.

Space between the stems within a group is also important. Sometimes it’s for plant health. Touchy plants like Pantanal or macrandra don’t like to be too crowded. The stem in the middle of the group is prone to tip stunting if the neighbor stems out grow it. Sometimes it’s for the visual effect. Depending what kind of texture you want.

Sorry for the wall of text.
Here is a photo of the tank today  
https://flic.kr/p/2k3P2eE


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Wow, 80-90% twice a week! Do you have an auto water change set up?


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

gjcarew said:


> Wow, 80-90% twice a week! Do you have an auto water change set up?


Yes, it’s fueled by rice and elbow grease though, not electricity > jk


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

@nntnam great post about maintenance above.

I agree with every single thing you said. 

Everyone is looking for the "secret" to a great tank. It's mostly just working harder at it.


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## Notg2009 (Feb 6, 2016)

Greggz said:


> @nntnam great post about maintenance above.
> 
> I agree with every single thing you said.
> 
> Everyone is looking for the "secret" to a great tank. It's mostly just working harder at it.


I agree. I always tried to find ways to reduce algae through magic bullets but then started focusing on plants and more detailed maintenance and have already seen very good results. "Focus on plant health" was the greatest advice for me!

Omid


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## ED3 (Sep 14, 2019)

Your tank is absolutely gorgeous, well done!


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Thanks, ED3!

Tank update 2020-11-12

Tank looks nice today. All the groups are near their optimal height except the rugosa. Could be a little bit taller. 
I wish it looked this nice a month ago  

https://flic.kr/p/2k5DxFK 

https://flic.kr/p/2k5HQYg


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

You ever run in to problems with plant trimmings getting caught in your planted walls? Mine always end up looking like a mixed salad and it drives me nuts.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

gjcarew said:


> You ever run in to problems with plant trimmings getting caught in your planted walls? Mine always end up looking like a mixed salad and it drives me nuts.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


I have the same problem too. Just have to manually remove the trimmings.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

A freshly trimmed Dutch tank can look very mature. It just takes a lot more time and effort than simply cutting everything with the scissors. 

Here's an example. 
Limnophila Aromatica before and after trimming. 
https://flic.kr/p/2k5PHgW 

https://flic.kr/p/2k5KhqC


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Gorgeous as always!

Love the color on the Limno Aromatica mini, much better than mine.

How deep is that tank front to back? And are you running all ten bulbs for full lighting period?

Any idea of the PAR at substrate? Maybe I need to turn mine up!


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> Gorgeous as always!
> 
> Love the color on the Limno Aromatica mini, much better than mine.
> 
> ...


Is this the mini variant? I honestly don't know. We only have one type here. Do you have a comparison photo?
I like the plant but it's a hard to predict one. The color can swing from green to red within a few days. So many time I have to remove it because of that. The plant gets too red and destroys the contrast of its surrounding area. 

The tank is 24in front-back. 

No I don't run all ten LOL. Not (yet) that crazy or skilled to do so >. All ten bulbs are only on for 2 hours in the middle of the photo period. Total period is 7hrs. 

Sorry I don't have a PAR meter. Can't tell you the exact number. However, based on the number of other tanks and rotalabutterfly calculator, I guess it's somewhere between 100 and 170umol. The former is when I run 6-8 bulbs, the latter is when all 10 are on.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Just minor update

The red erio grows insanely fast with the new diet: daily EI + lots of root tabs. 

This is, surprisingly, the fastest growing Erio in my tank. Takes less than one month to grow from a baby to a adult plant. They multiply like rabbits too. 

Still now sure how to use it in the display tank. This is one of the hardest erios to scape with. It has really high CO2 demand for such a short plant. Being so short in a tank full of tall and hungry plants, this plant always struggles to get enough CO2.

https://flic.kr/p/2k7xKRv

https://flic.kr/p/2k7xc45

The macrandra variegated also goes crazy for the new diet.
https://flic.kr/p/2k7yaDR


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Those are some very good looking plants there.

That Macranda is about as fat and sassy as I have seen it.

What exactly is the new diet??


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> Those are some very good looking plants there.
> 
> That Macranda is about as fat and sassy as I have seen it.
> 
> What exactly is the new diet??


Thanks Greggz.
It's EI daily and tons of root tabs right underneath the plant >. 
They both have similar diet. The erio gets more root tabs than the macrandra though. 


The root tab mostly consists of Osmocote. The capsule size is #1. 
One capsule can feed 2-4 Macrandra stems. I put in new capsule everytime I uproot and replanting the plant. 
https://flic.kr/p/2k1BboS


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

nntnam said:


> Thanks Greggz.
> It's EI daily and tons of root tabs right underneath the plant >.


What is EI daily?

Do you know total weekly NO3:KO4??:


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> What is EI daily?
> 
> Do you know total weekly NO3:KO4??:


Weekly N:K:Fe/trace is about 18:7:18:0.7 ppm. Divided by 7 and dosed daily. 
The farm tank only gets one WC per week btw.


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## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

If you don't mind me asking. What are those little red balls and the chocolate looking bits in your capsules?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Just to clarify, that dosing is daily but you are performing 80% water change twice a week? If so, in terms most people use the dosing is half that, about 9/3.5/9 between water changes. Which is interesting to me, as I've been lowering mine and am at 8/3/12 right now.

And now you have my curiosity with the root tabs.

Are you using them with all plants? Or just a select few?

And I imagine you do a lot of uprooting in your tank. Any issues with the Osmocote or the capsules coming up onto the substrate?

And thanks for letting me pester you with questions!:grin2:


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## Notg2009 (Feb 6, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Just to clarify, that dosing is daily but you are performing 80% water change twice a week? If so, in terms most people use the dosing is half that, about 9/3.5/9 between water changes. Which is interesting to me, as I've been lowering mine and am at 8/3/12 right now.
> 
> And now you have my curiosity with the root tabs.
> 
> ...


----------



## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Notg2009 said:


> The underlying theme in your questions and answers is to make things normalized and universal to avoid confusion! I love that!! To me, some take x:y:z as literal and apply it without knowing WC schedules, source of the nutrients, effect of substrate, etc.


Yeah that is exactly what I am trying to do. Both for myself and others. Clearly the results are very good, which always perks my interest.

And now if you want to get deeper down the rabbit hole, if you factor in accumulation over time that 9/3.5/9 between 80% water changes is about the same as about 6/2/6 at 50% water change. 

So the point is this tanks dosing is much less than EI, and is more like light water column dosing with richly dosed substrate. Which is an interesting strategy and clearly working out well.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> Just to clarify, that dosing is daily but you are performing 80% water change twice a week? If so, in terms most people use the dosing is half that, about 9/3.5/9 between water changes. Which is interesting to me, as I've been lowering mine and am at 8/3/12 right now.
> 
> And now you have my curiosity with the root tabs.
> 
> ...


I really don't mind the questions. Answering the questions helps me understand my own method even better. Please keep them coming. 

Sorry if I caused any confusion. The whole time I was talking about my farm tank (a 40B). The waterchange and dosing schedule of my main tank (the 70gal Dutch) remain the same as shown in the front page. 

https://flic.kr/p/2k7zDdx 

The goal of farm tank is growing plants as fast as possible. So each species has their own diet. I put different amount of root tabs in the pots depending on the species. 
Total weekly water dosing is N:K:Fe 18:7:18:0.7ppm. Dose daily. 
WC: once per week. As much water as possible. So 90-95%?!
Light: 4 T5HO bulbs and 3 T8 bulbs. 
Generally, the ludwigias mainly feed via the water column. They get root tabs sometimes to fatten up.
The rotalas and erios get lots of root tabs. These kind of plants loves being fed via the roots. They improve almost instantly. 
The trick is the root tabs MUST contain ammonia/Urea to be effective. This is due to the fact that aquasoil can bind ammonia, PO4, K, Fe, but not NO3. Any NO3 in the substrate will leak right to the water column.

In the Dutch tank, due to the frequency of uprooting, I don't insert as much root tabs as the farm tank. Just enough to keep the soil rich. I also use them for super fast growing plants like the Pantanal when I feel the stems getting too thin.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Econde said:


> If you don't mind me asking. What are those little red balls and the chocolate looking bits in your capsules?


Hi,

These are not commercial osmocote, which is the first generation. These are the 3rd gen, and are only sold for the farms/companies. The balls are much much smaller. 
The off-color (in this case, red) balls are just used to color-code the product. Bags with some red balls may dissolve in 4-5 months. Blue may last 7-8 months. Brown, 9-10 months or something. 

The chocolate pieces are clay-type fertilizer, similar to the one sold by ADA. They're IME more effective than the slow release ones like the osmocote. Probably due to higher ammonia concentration. I'm not sure. They're quite smelly when uprooting. Similar to mud or rotting stuff. But my erios love this type of root tabs. 
They're also more expensive. The ones in the photo are just left-over from the last patch. I'm moving to full osmocote soon.


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## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

nntnam said:


> Hi,
> 
> These are not commercial osmocote, which is the first generation. These are the 3rd gen, and are only sold for the farms/companies. The balls are much much smaller.
> The off-color (in this case, red) balls are just used to color-code the product. Bags with some red balls may dissolve in 4-5 months. Blue may last 7-8 months. Brown, 9-10 months or something.
> ...


Awesome! Thanks for clearing that up.


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## n70me (May 8, 2017)

@ nntnam thanks for explaining 

I am so curious to learn the root feeding stuff like you are doing but it doesn't work for me practically.

I have osmocote and osmocote plus ( so i guess these are called as commercial osmocote per your last post). I use it very sparsely (not even one full gel cap like you)may be not more 2-3 pellets in my 120L tank. If i go beyond the limit says 5-6 pellets i see heavy green dust algea on the glass.

How do you manage using lot many osmocote capsules without any algae issues?So are these 3rd gen osmocote very slow at releasing nutrients ?


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Notg2009 said:


> Greggz said:
> 
> 
> > Just to clarify, that dosing is daily but you are performing 80% water change twice a week? If so, in terms most people use the dosing is half that, about 9/3.5/9 between water changes. Which is interesting to me, as I've been lowering mine and am at 8/3/12 right now.
> ...


----------



## Notg2009 (Feb 6, 2016)

nntnam said:


> Notg2009 said:
> 
> 
> > People often ignore Tom Barr when he talks about topics like substrate or O2 in a planted tank. Water dosing, CO2... get way more attention.
> ...


----------



## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

n70me said:


> @ nntnam thanks for explaining
> 
> I am so curious to learn the root feeding stuff like you are doing but it doesn't work for me practically.
> 
> ...


Using root tabs is like playing with a double edged knife. 
This is my fourth or fifth tries at the root tabs and I've got algae outbreak almost every time, regardless of the type of root tabs I used. 
Unfortunately, there's no fixed formula for this. 
But there's some useful tips I've found
- You need to insert it as deep as possible. Any leaking would be quickly consumed by the plants. 
- It's more effective if used with aquasoil.
- Avoid using or use it very sparely under areas with high frequency of uprooting. 
- Avoid using it near ammonia-sensitive species like Bucephalandra, Crypt, UG,...


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

nntnam said:


> But there's always room to improve. Substrate maintaining probably falls into the last bit of optimization, where almost-as-good becomes just-as-good.
> Tom and Dennis (both master growers) actually have very similar substrate maintaining method.
> Tom: removing muddy stuff in the substrate by WC after uprooting plants. Dennis: often vacuuming the substrate.
> Tom regularly put new ada aquasoil, which is very rich in ammonia, in his tank. Dennis: often inserting osmocote in the substrate.


I was actually talking with Dennis about Osmocote a while back. He said he uses them sparingly. He'll take a couple of individual balls and wrap the roots around them when replanting certain plants. Takes a lot of dedication, and demonstrates his attention to detail. 

And both Tom and Dennis are meticulous about husbandry in general. As you know, general dosing is probably the least of the reasons for their success.

Have to say I really enjoy your input. Some really good stuff there. I still have to digest some of it.:wink2:

Haven't ordered any Osmocote yet........but I'm easily influenced so likely on the horizon.:grin2:


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Just wanted to share a picture of the buce in my tank.

https://flic.kr/p/2kaNonE

There are two kinds of buce in this picture.
The one in the lower left has smaller, rounder leaves and has more blue in its color. 
The brownie ghost has more red; hence, it looks more purple.
Both are pretty difficult to keep compared to other kinds of Buce/Annubias. 
They're quite sensitive to ammonia. 
Prone to BBA (and sometimes melting) when I do too much uprooting in the tank.
This is similar to the crypt. Flamingo. 
They don't like unstable environment. 
People always think they get BBA because of the high light but I think the number one cause is the ammonia spikes.
Sure, the high light intensity will cause more harm if the water parameters are unstable; but as long as you keep the tank clean and stable, they can grow well under pretty much any light intensity.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Trying a new combination of bulbs. 
Removed an aquaflora and aquapink and replaced them with a tropic and a aquablue+. 
This increases green and reduces red/blue intensity. 

https://flic.kr/p/2kdebZx

Preparing for a new layout. I'm planning to use more colored plants while trying to maintaining good local and overall contrast. 
It would be like a reversed Dutch-style where the green plants become the focal points. 
Using more colored plants is also going to make the scape look darker. Adding more greenish bulbs is to counter this and make the green pop.

https://flic.kr/p/2kdaos7

https://flic.kr/p/2kdanhM


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## ytz (Dec 1, 2020)

התחברתי לאתר בכדי להגיב ולומר לך שיש לך יצירה מדהימה ממש יפה!


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## LarryMac (Jun 5, 2020)

Wow! Knock my socks off! Great job!


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Long time no update  

Here is the tank today. 

https://flic.kr/p/2koyKup

Not yet decided the final scape so I'm growing all the potential plants together to see how they look next to each others. 

Trying red erio in the front. To be honest it doesn't look very good. The color seems to blend in with the aquasoil. Probably will replace it with the Eriocaulon sp. Matto Grosso. 
Using the Barclaya longifolia as background plant for now. I will swap the mini myrio and the limno. rugosa to enhance the contrast in the back left corner of the tank. Too many big-leaved plants in that area. 

New erio: minas 2010
https://flic.kr/p/2kozrFs

Finally some plant po*n
Pantanal showing striking color when it's growing well. 
https://flic.kr/p/2kozi9x


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Another stunning presentation!

That takes a lot of dedication to keep Pantanal trimmed for display like that.

Very, very well done as always.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> Another stunning presentation!
> 
> That takes a lot of dedication to keep Pantanal trimmed for display like that.
> 
> Very, very well done as always.


Thanks Greggz,

Actually the Pantanal in this tank doesn't grow that fast. It only requires trimming once per 1.5 week.
However, it is tricky to keep the Pantanal in a tight group like this, especially at the back of the tank where the flow is really weak. 
These stems are only about half the size of the ones in my farm tank and prone to tips stunting. Probably due to the lack of co2 or competition for co2 between the stems, which explains the slower growth rate and smaller size.


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## butchblack (Oct 25, 2019)

Absolutely gorgeous.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

nntnam said:


> Actually the Pantanal in this tank doesn't grow that fast. It only requires trimming once per 1.5 week.
> 
> However, it is tricky to keep the Pantanal in a tight group like this, especially at the back of the tank where the flow is really weak.


That's interesting. I trim my Pantanal sometimes twice a week!

And keeping Pantanal in a tight group like that is like trying to tame a wild animal! I admire your dedication.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Tank looks amazing, so stunning and viibrant.


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## rajdude (Apr 13, 2020)

Oh my God! I have never seen a more beautiful and colorful tank!
WOW:nerd:



nntnam said:


> Long time no update
> 
> Here is the tank today.
> 
> ...


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Finally decided to remake the walls. (sorry for the messy plant groups)

https://flic.kr/p/2ks4pMy

I'm using coral moss on the back and right walls, phoenix moss on the left wall. 
This time I'm too lazy to make the moss tiles again so I just sandwich the the moss between to pieces of plastics mesh. 
I've done this before but abandoned this method because it took too long for the moss to grow out of the mesh. Dennis Singh actually reminded me of this method during one of our facebook chats >.

One benefit of this method is that, once the coral moss sticks out of the top mesh, I can just separate it from the bottom mesh and use it to make another moss wall. 
This creates an infinite supply of coral moss since I can just keep removing the moss from the mesh every 2 months and it will always grow back. 

Getting the king of erios (Matto Grosso) ready for the next scape >
https://flic.kr/p/2ks4zq1 

Plant po*n (NSFW)!!
https://flic.kr/p/2krLb2G


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## rajdude (Apr 13, 2020)

Hello @nntnam , I have been drooling over your plants. Amazes me every time I see your photos!

Could you please tell me the names of these plants....


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## ntu (Feb 3, 2021)

Your tank is so beautiful. can you show me where to buy flamingo in japan


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

rajdude said:


> Hello @nntnam , I have been drooling over your plants. Amazes me every time I see your photos!
> 
> Could you please tell me the names of these plants....


1. Syngonanthus macrocaulon
2. Eriocaulon "Mato Grosso"
3. Eriocaulon ratnagiri? Not 100% on this one...

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## rajdude (Apr 13, 2020)

gjcarew said:


> 1. Syngonanthus macrocaulon
> 2. Eriocaulon "Mato Grosso"
> 3. Eriocaulon ratnagiri? Not 100% on this one...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Thanks a lot! I wonder if I can find these plants states side?

Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

rajdude said:


> Thanks a lot! I wonder if I can find these plants states side?
> 
> Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk


It looks like someone has the synoganthus for sale in the for sale/trade section here on TPT

For Sale/Trade

You might try a 'looking for' -type post there, too, for the erios


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## rajdude (Apr 13, 2020)

rzn7z7 said:


> It looks like someone has the synoganthus for sale in the for sale/trade section here on TPT
> 
> For Sale/Trade
> 
> You might try a 'looking for' -type post there, too, for the erios


Thanks for the tip. I didn't even know that there was a for sale section here. Although it worries me a bit buying online right now... winter, low temps may kill plants in shipping. Unless they use a heat pack?

Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk


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## ytz (Dec 1, 2020)

אין מילים
זה מדהים!!! 
אתה גם אדריכל וגם מעצב


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

ntu said:


> Your tank is so beautiful. can you show me where to buy flamingo in japan


Not sure this is allowed. I won't give you any link, but you can find flamingo on Mercari or yahoo auction.



rajdude said:


> Thanks for the tip. I didn't even know that there was a for sale section here. Although it worries me a bit buying online right now... winter, low temps may kill plants in shipping. Unless they use a heat pack?
> 
> Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk


gjcarew already answered for me (thanks, btw). The last one is not Rats though. It's Erio. sp Polaris.

I wouldn't worry too much about winter. Higher temps kill plants much quicker. 
Buy from experienced sellers. They know how to pack plants best.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Update 2021-02-09

I think this would be 80-90% the look of my next scape. 

Trying to use 'curtain' plants for the first time. It's not easy to keep them there in my tank. The flow is quite strong at the front glass. It always bends the Erio. Feather Duster backward.
Some groups look rough as I just pulled them from the farm tank. Need some time to fatten up and polish up for the final photo.
The moss on the side walls has been growing painfully slow. This won't be an issue as the curtain plants will cover them up anyway.
Still need to get rid of at least two species.


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## vervatic (Oct 16, 2014)

Wow... by the way have you noticed whether the buce grows faster on the walls, or in the substrate? I've always wondered.


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## rajdude (Apr 13, 2020)

vervatic said:


> Wow... by the way have you noticed whether the buce grows faster on the walls, or in the substrate? I've always wondered.


As far as I know, the Buce. species are rhizome type plants, and that means they are not supposed to be planted into the substrate, although their roots may go into substrate (rhizome should be always outside, in water).

I am also interested in what the OP says about this.

Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk


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## ntu (Feb 3, 2021)

nntnam said:


> Not sure this is allowed. I won't give you any link, but you can find flamingo on Mercari or yahoo auction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## Spiritus-Ichthus (May 24, 2020)

Very nice tank!


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

vervatic said:


> Wow... by the way have you noticed whether the buce grows faster on the walls, or in the substrate? I've always wondered.





rajdude said:


> As far as I know, the Buce. species are rhizome type plants, and that means they are not supposed to be planted into the substrate, although their roots may go into substrate (rhizome should be always outside, in water).
> 
> I am also interested in what the OP says about this.
> 
> Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk


Buce and annubias actually grow fine in the substrate. While I don't see much difference in growth speed between the two cases, the one that grows in the substrate definitely has a better root system. Their roots also seem to less prone to melting than the ones on the wall. 

Update 2021-02-19
So... the tank looks like this after a big earthquake...
https://flic.kr/p/2kCTNqx

About 60% of the plants were uprooted. Substrate got messed up big time. I couldn't change the water and replant the plants right away due to the fear of the aftershock. 
I re-planted the plants a few days ago. Some of the slow-growing plants are having BBA now. Probably because of the stress by dirty water and/or no light/co2 for a few days,...


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

nntnam said:


> Buce and annubias actually grow fine in the substrate. While I don't see much difference in growth speed between the two cases, the one that grows in the substrate definitely has a better root system. Their roots also seem to less prone to melting than the ones on the wall.
> 
> Update 2021-02-19
> So... the tank looks like this after a big earthquake...
> ...


Wow that is something!

I hope you are safe and sound. 

Just shows how much tanks like stability. Of all the things I have had to deal with, I can gladly say an earthquake has not been one of them!!

Likely a good blast of ammonia or just general organics got released. Good luck and I bet everything gets back to normal faster than you think.


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## BlanketHogg (Feb 17, 2021)

Beautiful!!


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

nntnam said:


> Buce and annubias actually grow fine in the substrate. While I don't see much difference in growth speed between the two cases, the one that grows in the substrate definitely has a better root system. Their roots also seem to less prone to melting than the ones on the wall.
> 
> Update 2021-02-19
> So... the tank looks like this after a big earthquake...
> ...


Hope nothing more than some tank upset happened from the quake.


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## nntnam (Oct 7, 2019)

Greggz said:


> Wow that is something!
> 
> I hope you are safe and sound.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Greggz! 
I'm fine. Luckily no damage to the house or furniture except for some broken plates and bowls. 
I'm sure with some extra water changes, things would back to normal soon.



ReeferRusso said:


> Hope nothing more than some tank upset happened from the quake.


Thanks. The tank got shifted about 0.25 inches after the earthquake (you can see it from the photo). Still finding a way to shift it back  . Everything else seems fine.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

@nntnam So what have you been up to the past few months?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

gjcarew said:


> @nntnam So what have you been up to the past few months?


You aren't going to like it.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> You aren't going to like it.


Can you tell me or is it personal?

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

gjcarew said:


> Can you tell me or is it personal?
> 
> Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk


No it's not personal. 

The last time I spoke with him he was taking the tank down. If I remember right he was moving. I'll have to look up the conversation, or hopefully he will chime in here.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Goodness, I was worried he had cancer or something. I'd of course love to see that tank continue, but it's the aquarist that matters more than the aquarium. And he's an immensely talented aquarist.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

gjcarew said:


> Goodness, I was worried he had cancer or something. I'd of course love to see that tank continue, but it's the aquarist that matters more than the aquarium. And he's an immensely talented aquarist.


Yes I agree. I told him the world is a better place with his Dutch tank in it, so I hope he gets it set up sometime soon.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

I just discovered this journal, thank you for sharing it. What part of Japan are you in? I lived in Shizuoka for a while and met my wife there. She's from Shiga but most of her family's in Kyoto these days.

As a former (FINALLY!) judge of the AGA's Dutch category, I'd like to say you really should enter this tank. You do a wonderful job even if you still have a lot to learn. 

Regards,
Phil


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