# Iwagumi Hardscape Critique



## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

Put the hardscape into my tank a couple of nights ago. I haven't gotten much feedback in my journal so I though I would post it here. Please let me know your critiques.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7432704660/http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7432708576/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7432723160/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7432713822/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7432719164/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7432687540/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/
Since putting in the scape, I have tilted and burried the smallest rock in the high part to match the angle and height of the biggest rock. 

Also, is the aqua soil to shallow in the low part?

Till next time,
-T


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

The one in middle bugs me. It just kinda fit too unnaturally well in that area. It's too parallel to the other faces of the rock. Other than that, it looks fine.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

What if you pull the middle rock and push the one beside it that's higher down a little?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Not sure how attached you are to those stones but I have 120 pounds of ohko stone just sitting at my place. You could take the whole box, build a scape and give back the rest if you want. I paid between $2.50-3.50 (I need to check the sticker at big Al's. I think it was $2.50) per pound and I'd sell it to you at cost. 

Just an idea if you care to try. Most people don't have that much stone to choose from.


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## TheNamelessPoet (May 17, 2012)

well i dont knwo much about this scape type to be honest but what I dont like is the shadow on the middle rock and the totaly flat left side. I would say just turn it around 180 degrees...


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## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

jcgd said:


> What if you pull the middle rock and push the one beside it that's higher down a little?





TheNamelessPoet said:


> well i dont knwo much about this scape type to be honest but what I dont like is the shadow on the middle rock and the totaly flat left side. I would say just turn it around 180 degrees...


I'll see what I can do about that middle rock. I have a couple of other rocks i could use or take it out completely. Then I would have 5 rocks which I think goes with the whole iwagumi thing anyways.


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## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

jcgd said:


> Not sure how attached you are to those stones but I have 120 pounds of ohko stone just sitting at my place. You could take the whole box, build a scape and give back the rest if you want. I paid between $2.50-3.50 (I need to check the sticker at big Al's. I think it was $2.50) per pound and I'd sell it to you at cost.
> 
> Just an idea if you care to try. Most people don't have that much stone to choose from.


Thanks for the offer, maybe if you have around on my next scape I'll take you up on the offer.

Plus, I'm kinda attached to these stones... I spent a lot of time trying to find them and cleaning them. I realize they aren't the typical "Iwagumi" rock but I think they are kinda neat. I would have gone with the seiryu stone, but it is expensive and you don't know what you are getting usually.


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## cookymonster760 (Apr 30, 2011)

im in no way a master at iwagumi scape but i say this looks awesome because it looks good from all three sides


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Trenton, I love the equipment you've chosen so far. My plan is to test a cheap bookshelf aquarium, and then move to a setup like yours. I have ADA tank lust bad! Great idea on taping on the golden mean lines to assist with your layout. 

I don't feel qualified to make suggestions, but you might want to think about your focal point. Right now, it appears to be near the center of the tank and relatively static other than the flow created by the sloping substrate. I'm sure other more experienced aquascape designers will have great suggestions.

I look forward to following your progress and learning from your experience.

Salty


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## Ptyochromis (Mar 16, 2012)

As a novice, here is my 2 cents. In the 5th picture, the diagonal gap between the large middle 2 rocks is an eye sore. Maybe if you pushed the large leftmost rock down so that it touches the flat rock it may fix it. Other than that I think it looks good.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Trenton,

As a quick follow-up to my earlier comment, I was mainly referring to the first photo where the middle stone is bookended by two similar-sized stones. One of the concepts of iwagumi is to have a father stone and mother stone, and then to build around those. In the 5th photo, perhaps that stone on an angle could be the father stone, and one of the two similar sized stones could be pushed deeper into the substrate to reduce its dominance in the layout to create the mother stone.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I like the way the flat planes of the 2 major rocks line up. May not be what is found in nature (yes, the middle rock is a bit extreme), but I think it will look just fine once it is planted. It makes a very strong statement, draws the eye when it is just rocks and nothing else. Plants will soften that, but hopefully not hide it too much. 

I like the progression from high to low the way the 3 rocks are lined up. 

It is also interesting, a good composition, viewed from several angles. Will the tank be centered in the room to be seen from more than one side? 

Makes me think of a single massive rock, under the soil for thousands of years, coming to light as the soil is washed away. Exposing the cracks in the rock. I can see in that arrangement that all the rocks are actually part of one large rock that is still buried in soil.


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## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

Woah, I’m not used to this many comments to contend with!



cookymonster760 said:


> im in no way a master at iwagumi scape but i say this looks awesome because it looks good from all three sides


That’s what I was going for, thanks!



SaltyNC said:


> Trenton, I love the equipment you've chosen so far. My plan is to test a cheap bookshelf aquarium, and then move to a setup like yours. I have ADA tank lust bad! Great idea on taping on the golden mean lines to assist with your layout.
> 
> I don't feel qualified to make suggestions, but you might want to think about your focal point. Right now, it appears to be near the center of the tank and relatively static other than the flow created by the sloping substrate. I'm sure other more experienced aquascape designers will have great suggestions.
> 
> ...


Haha, based on “qualifications” I would have none seeing as how I knew nothing about planted tanks before April this year. I see what you mean about no focal point, but I think that as you walk around the tank, the focal points really dynamic and don’t stay the same.

I hope you can learn something, that was my aim in this Journal.



Ptyochromis said:


> As a novice, here is my 2 cents. In the 5th picture, the diagonal gap between the large middle 2 rocks is an eye sore. Maybe if you pushed the large leftmost rock down so that it touches the flat rock it may fix it. Other than that I think it looks good.





SaltyNC said:


> Trenton,
> 
> As a quick follow-up to my earlier comment, I was mainly referring to the first photo where the middle stone is bookended by two similar-sized stones. One of the concepts of iwagumi is to have a father stone and mother stone, and then to build around those. In the 5th photo, perhaps that stone on an angle could be the father stone, and one of the two similar sized stones could be pushed deeper into the substrate to reduce its dominance in the layout to create the mother stone.



Maybe I can tilt it a bit back and push it down a bit. Don’t want to move it too much though or it will lose the flow that I wanted between the tops of the rocks.



Diana said:


> I like the way the flat planes of the 2 major rocks line up. May not be what is found in nature (yes, the middle rock is a bit extreme), but I think it will look just fine once it is planted. It makes a very strong statement, draws the eye when it is just rocks and nothing else. Plants will soften that, but hopefully not hide it too much.
> 
> I like the progression from high to low the way the 3 rocks are lined up.
> 
> ...


I was actually thinking of a rock that was cleaved apart with the flat planes facing each other. I’m thinking some taller plants between the clefts now, so that should soften up the harsh angles.

Yes, the order of the pictures is walking around it. The side with the highest substrate is by the back of the couch, so kind of hidden. The rest can be seen.

The broken apart rock is exactly what I was going for and with plants in, it will make it looks like this even more I believe. Thanks for your insights!

-T


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## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

Tried a couple of more scapes.
Here they are:
Scape #1

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484210284/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484206290/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484202828/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/
Scape #2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484198612/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484194772/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484191334/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/
Scape #3

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484182606/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484178718/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7484175466/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/
What do you guys think?
-T


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I say bigger rocks and less substrate if you want it viewable from 3 sides.

Craig


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Try to make the stones look like as if they have been there forever. If they look top heavy or like they are about to fall over, I think the whole effect is lost.


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

I am curious how this turns out. Any updates?


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Of this group of ideas:
Scape #1 is by far the best. The contrast between a strong vertical rock and a lying down rock is really good. The taller rock looks like an animal, especially in the first and third pics of scape #1. 

The other scapes just sort of look like lumps of rock.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Craigthor said:


> I say bigger rocks and less substrate if you want it viewable from 3 sides.
> 
> Craig


I concur, rocks are a bit too small, and will definitely be too small after the plants have grown in, they really eat up stone a lot more than you'd think. I've made a view successful iwagumi's and let me tell you, half of the stone will vanish after a while, sometimes more. If you're going to get new rocks because of how small they are, I'd also suggest more texture while you're at it. I feel that smooth rocks only work in iwagumi if they are slightly round like the river stones amano used in a few of his earlier iwagumi's. Here's a link to such stone.

For more texture I'd go with Seiryu, Manten, or Ryuoh. 

You seem to have the skill to make a nice hardscape, the rocks are just lacking some.

Good work regardless, I like the double side view, not any easy way to go roud:


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## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

Craigthor said:


> I say bigger rocks and less substrate if you want it viewable from 3 sides.
> 
> Craig


Good idea, I'll try to do this. Thanks.



xmas_one said:


> Try to make the stones look like as if they have been there forever. If they look top heavy or like they are about to fall over, I think the whole effect is lost.


I have never heard this before, but it makes sense. Thanks.



CmLaracy said:


> I concur, rocks are a bit too small, and will definitely be too small after the plants have grown in, they really eat up stone a lot more than you'd think. I've made a view successful iwagumi's and let me tell you, half of the stone will vanish after a while, sometimes more. If you're going to get new rocks because of how small they are, I'd also suggest more texture while you're at it. I feel that smooth rocks only work in iwagumi if they are slightly round like the river stones amano used in a few of his earlier iwagumi's. Here's a link to such stone.
> 
> For more texture I'd go with Seiryu, Manten, or Ryuoh.
> 
> ...


I would have bought stone, but I wanted to save money in some areas, so I decided to find my own. I have modified the scape by reducing the substrate level and adjusting the stones from the original scape I made. Although I had some great suggestions, I really was drawn to the shape of this from the get go... kept going back to it.

I will have to be careful with the heights of the plants that I choose so as not to hide all the rocks. I made some other mock scapes with plants that I will post in my journal.

-T


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## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

green_valley said:


> I am curious how this turns out. Any updates?


Here is the update. More back to the original one I made. (Don't mind the tape, I just used it as a quick reference for the golden ratio points that I wanted to use.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7498092474/ t

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7498086420/ http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7498083516/http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/
-T


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

What kind of plants and livestock are you planning on?
Those rocks are not inert and will raise your KH significantly!
Just put a drop of API Nitrate Test Kit Bottle #1 on them and they will foam like crazy.


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## ramen lover (Jun 22, 2012)

what type of rocks are these? are they neutral? will they affect the water?


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## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

Chlorophile said:


> What kind of plants and livestock are you planning on?
> Those rocks are not inert and will raise your KH significantly!
> Just put a drop of API Nitrate Test Kit Bottle #1 on them and they will foam like crazy.


Check out my journal, all the info is in there, and yes... the rocks are tested.



ramen lover said:


> what type of rocks are these? are they neutral? will they affect the water?


I do not know what type of rocks they are, I collected them at my cabin in BC. Yes they are neutral, see above comment.

Thanks,
-T


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