# My co2 line exploded...



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

...and ended in disaster. My 5.5 gallon's back glass panel shattered and I had rcs all over the floor including some puddles. Somehow my gla atomizer quit working I guess? I don't know what happened exactly all I know is I heard a gun shot and I looked up and my aquarium was empty. The girlfriend helped me clean everything up. I have a picture of my shattered aquarium that's about it. I grabbed a 5 gallon bucket that had some water in it for water changes and just tossed shrimp in there. Not the warmest of waters but water none the less. So I have my filter running on the bucket. My plants floating around in that and now I don't know what to do. All I know is I'm not allowed to get another tank probably so I'm gonna have to through the rcs in my 10 gallon or something. I'm not very happy right now... Things haven't been going my way 

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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

The line exploded and shattered glass? Crazy! You sure it wasn't the diffuser or something else entirely? like a heater?

That's nuts, I hope I never experience something like that!


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

The line exploded. I know this because I found the split line right above the diffuser. It was white instead of clear.

Do you think the gla bubble counter fluid could have somehow gotten through the line and clogged the diffuser?

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## JRMott (Jul 30, 2010)

Very strange. I can't see how a clogged co2 line would blow a tank out, rather than the line blowing off elsewhere (like at the check valve).


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## Hcancino (Jun 18, 2011)

I feel like it might have gotten clogged before the diffuser and the built up pressure caused it to shoot out and hit the glass


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Pressure won't "build up". The max pressure in the line will be the level the working pressure is set to. If the line actually exploded, the regulator, for whatever reason, put out a heck of a lot higher psi than we would ever use. Or the tubing was defective.

An Atomic diffuser won't work at below around 30psi. If the working pressure of the regulator is set at, say, 20psi, no bubbles come out of the diffuser. The bubble counter will show no bubbles. The pressure in the line will be at 20psi all the way down to the diffuser. And it will stay that way for as long as the pressure is set under the cracking pressure of the diffuser. Nothing will explode.


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

that is just... bizzarre


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

It was a paintball setup. The bubble counter was still working I just figured the pressure needed to build to break the diffuser so I left it go.

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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Aah. Okay, that explains it. If there was some sort of blockage, then yes, the pressure would begin increasing to a max of 800psi, but the tubing would definitely blow out long before then.

That's one of the problems with using a paintball cylinder without a regulator. And one of the reasons I won't ever mess with a paintball ASA valve rig.

Just out of curiosity, were you using any barbs, or just compression fittings with the tubing? And now that I think of it, maybe it's a good idea to make sure there's at least one barb along the line (for everybody else using this setup), so that hopefully the tubing would blow off a barb rather than explode, given some sort of blockage.


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## ghotifish (Feb 16, 2009)

Wow, that sucks. At least you were at home when it happened. Our 40 gal sprung a leak once while I was at work and flooded half the living room. It damaged the flooring and everything. I hope that things turn around for you quickly.

Good luck!


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

Wow, that's kind of scary. Are your shrimp okay? If not, in a month or so I might be able to send you some F1 PFRs.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Eek! Sorry to hear, that's terrible. 



Salmon McCloud said:


> Do you think the gla bubble counter fluid could have somehow gotten through the line and clogged the diffuser?


It's quite possible. I've heard that glycerin, which is what bubble counter fluid usually is, will definitely clog the atomic diffusers. And sometimes when first turning on the system, the initial rush of gas can force fluid out of the counter and into the diffuser.

I play it safe with my CO2 systems by avoiding any scenario that may lead to a large increase in pressure due to a clog. So I have no bubble counter connected to my Atomic inline diffuser. And I never use _any_ diffuser that can clog with an unregulated system; even with DIY I avoid glass diffusers and airstones.


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

kevmo911 said:


> Aah. Okay, that explains it. If there was some sort of blockage, then yes, the pressure would begin increasing to a max of 800psi, but the tubing would definitely blow out long before then.
> 
> That's one of the problems with using a paintball cylinder without a regulator. And one of the reasons I won't ever mess with a paintball ASA valve rig.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, were you using any barbs, or just compression fittings with the tubing? And now that I think of it, maybe it's a good idea to make sure there's at least one barb along the line (for everybody else using this setup), so that hopefully the tubing would blow off a barb rather than explode, given some sort of blockage.


Yeah I was always skeptical of the paintball systems, but decided to give it a whirl... and look how that turned out. I'll have to use a barb of some sort when I set it back up.


ghotifish said:


> Wow, that sucks. At least you were at home when it happened. Our 40 gal sprung a leak once while I was at work and flooded half the living room. It damaged the flooring and everything. I hope that things turn around for you quickly.


yeah, but I think I alsmost had a heart attack. lol. I just sat there in shock i think, scared the bejesus out of me. I heard my girlfriend yell what happened, and she came in and I was just sitting there staring at it.



Fishly said:


> Wow, that's kind of scary. Are your shrimp okay? If not, in a month or so I might be able to send you some F1 PFRs.


most are okay as far as I can tell. couldn't rescue the tiny babies though :icon_frow
I'm curious as to what f1 PFRs are though.

also my girlfriends brother who saw the after math is giving me his 5.5 gallon that he just was going to get rid of, so I've got a tank to put everything back into. I'm just scared of my paintball co2 now lol.

and to my friend DarkCobra,
I think I have learned my lesson. now I have to figure out how to unclog the diffuser because I would love to use it again. anybody have any suggestions?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Salmon McCloud said:


> now I have to figure out how to unclog the diffuser because I would love to use it again. anybody have any suggestions?


I've seen a few reports that the glycerin can be removed by forcing alcohol through the diffuser, like PatrickW describes here.


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

Salmon McCloud said:


> most are okay as far as I can tell. couldn't rescue the tiny babies though :icon_frow
> I'm curious as to what f1 PFRs are though.


Sorry, that's breeder's notation. F1 means first generation, F2 would mean second generation, and so on. F0 or P would be parent stock or original cross (if you're crossing two existing lines). So the shrimp I have are the first batch of offspring from the parents that I bought.

Glad to hear your shrimp are okay!


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

DarkCobra said:


> I've seen a few reports that the glycerin can be removed by forcing alcohol through the diffuser, like PatrickW describes here.


I'll try that, as soon as I get everything all settled down. My carpet was still damp this morning so I'm going to run my shop vac over it again to see If I can extract more water. Then I'll have to see If the girlfriend will allow me to set it up again lol. she told me no more co2 after it exploded... so I'll have to see.



Fishly said:


> Sorry, that's breeder's notation. F1 means first generation, F2 would mean second generation, and so on. F0 or P would be parent stock or original cross (if you're crossing two existing lines). So the shrimp I have are the first batch of offspring from the parents that I bought.
> 
> Glad to hear your shrimp are okay!


Only some of the shrimp made it. At least the ones I could grab... I think, they are in a bucket, with a heater and the filter running, and In a dark room, I plan on leaving them there through tonight, hoping the stress goes away.

So your shrimps are RCS's still? I'm slightly confused still lol. Anyway, I'll see what happens with my shrimp, and observe them for the time being.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

The likely culprit sounds like vinyl tubing. It may have hardened the and then detonation.


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

I don't know about that. I bought the stuff from home depot, could have been vinyl, but the tubing has only been used for about 2 months or so.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

Maybe we need a sticky to warn against the ASA on/off method? It just seems way too risky and now we are dealing with the consequences.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

The whitening does sound like the CO2 and water combined to form carbonic acid, which attacked the tubing in that location. I've had it happen to some of my own non-CO2 rated vinyl tubing (which I use for non-pressurized DIY CO2 only) at the same location - the tip, where it's exposed to the most moisture. And it does weaken the tubing, which feels both gummy and brittle.

But not even CO2 rated tubing will hold back a full 800psi. I'm wondering just how much that pressure increased before rupture, that it was able to shatter glass. :eek5:


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

So, if I understand this correctly, during a blockage, the pressure on the output side of the needle valve will build until it reaches the same pressure as that on the input side.

In the case of the ASA on/off and needle valve combination, the output line will either (a) build up to 800 psi and hold, or (b) rupture at some point before it reaches 800 psi.

Am I wrong in guessing that the CO2 line or something on the line will rupture, perhaps catastrophically, before it reaches 800 psi?

p.s. Wouldn't it be likely that the rupture would happen when the individual notices that there is nothing coming out of his diffuser and attempts to "adjust" it by fiddling with the line, putting the individual front and center during the explosion?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

galabar said:


> So, if I understand this correctly, during a blockage, the pressure on the output side of the needle valve will build until it reaches the same pressure as that on the input side.
> 
> In the case of the ASA on/off and needle valve combination, the output line will either (a) build up to 800 psi and hold, or (b) rupture at some point before it reaches 800 psi.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's all pretty much what will happen. But, remember, we're talking about what amounts to a heavy-duty balloon here. There won't be shards of silicone tearing through your flesh if it decides to blow while you're fiddling with it.

Also remember that while water doesn't compress (the entire force of an explosion is transferred to the opposite side of the fluid, though force is spread out as the diameter of the "blast area" increases), air compresses, so the explosion would be cushioned.

And, just to clarify, this can only occur if you're using an on/off valve (like in the cheap paintball rigs), or some sort of catastrophic regulator failure, where, in addition to that failure, the relief valve has been blocked or removed.

*AND* I'm betting (this is just a guess, but it seems to make sense) that if the tubing were attached at some point via a barb rather than a compression fitting, the tubing would most likely blow off rather than explode.

P.S. even the Milwaukee regulator has a relief valve.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

kevmo911 said:


> Yes, that's all pretty much what will happen. But, remember, we're talking about what amounts to a heavy-duty balloon here. There won't be shards of silicone tearing through your flesh if it decides to blow while you're fiddling with it.


Well, it blew a hole in his tank. I'm sure it would have done some damage if he had his hand near that point of explosion (which might be likely if he was reached into his tank to try and "fix" the diffuser).

I agree, though, that it should only happen with non-regulated on/off setups.


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

Salmon McCloud said:


> Only some of the shrimp made it. At least the ones I could grab... I think, they are in a bucket, with a heater and the filter running, and In a dark room, I plan on leaving them there through tonight, hoping the stress goes away.
> 
> So your shrimps are RCS's still? I'm slightly confused still lol. Anyway, I'll see what happens with my shrimp, and observe them for the time being.


Yes, they are painted fire red cherry shrimp. Let me know if you need some.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Salmon McCloud said:


> ...and ended in disaster. My 5.5 gallon's back glass panel shattered and I had rcs all over the floor including some puddles. Somehow my gla atomizer quit working I guess? I don't know what happened exactly all I know is I heard a gun shot and I looked up and my aquarium was empty. The girlfriend helped me clean everything up. I have a picture of my shattered aquarium that's about it. I grabbed a 5 gallon bucket that had some water in it for water changes and just tossed shrimp in there. Not the warmest of waters but water none the less. So I have my filter running on the bucket. My plants floating around in that and now I don't know what to do. All I know is I'm not allowed to get another tank probably so I'm gonna have to through the rcs in my 10 gallon or something. I'm not very happy right now... Things haven't been going my way
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk



picture? Shattered aquarium? what about the diffuser? what about the co2 line? what about the paintball tank?
Describe them please.

Why blaming the jaggedfurry setup?
vinyl can't hold 800 pressure.
blame the gla atomizer that failed because of build ups. + You are suppose to clean/ soak the diffuser once a weak with bleach dilution.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> picture?
> 
> Why blaming the jaggedfurry setup?
> 
> blame the gla atomizer that failed because of build ups. + You are suppose to clean/ soak the diffuser once a weak with bleach dilution.


Because there may be many different causes of a clogged CO2 line and an explosion should not be a result. I would give everyone the advice of absolutely not going with the paintball, ASA on/off setup. Way, way too dangerous.

Don't clean your diffuser and your tank explodes? No thank you.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

galabar said:


> Because there may be many different causes of a clogged CO2 line and an explosion should not be a result. I would give everyone the advice of absolutely not going with the paintball, ASA on/off setup. Way, way too dangerous.
> 
> Don't clean your diffuser and your tank explodes? No thank you.



Yes there are many ways to clog a co2 line, one of them is not cleaning/ maintain them properly.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> Yes there are many ways to clog a co2 line, one of them is not cleaning/ maintain them properly.


And when that line clogs, for whatever reason, boom. :angel:

*[Use a regulator!!!]*


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

sayurasem said:


> Why blaming the jaggedfurry setup?
> vinyl can't hold 800 pressure.
> blame the gla atomizer that failed because of build ups. + You are suppose to clean/ soak the diffuser once a weak with bleach dilution.


Say what? Atomic diffusers are cleaned every couple of months, or as necessary. If it's necessary to clean every week, then something is seriously wrong.

No need to blame anything. Just understand that all components have certain limitations, and recognize that some combinations may lead to trouble.


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

I'll post a picture that I took shortly after I cleaned the mess up. I will do this tomorrow, I just worked 19 hours so I'm not up to much tonight, especially since I go back in to work in 5 hours.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

oldpunk78 said:


> The likely culprit sounds like vinyl tubing. It may have hardened the and then detonation.


800 psi in a system designed for 50psi sounds like the culprit to me...


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

The way people rabidly defend things amuses me to no end... 

Now I'm supposed to clean my diffuser weekly? 

If we just use a regulator this won't be a problem...


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Yeah I think I'm definitely getting some kind of regulator, The atomizer still looks spotless, its less than a month old I think


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

The exploded tank.
notice my 20 Long project tabled in the corner
and my beautiful popcorn. amidst the chaos everything got messy.




Fishly said:


> Yes, they are painted fire red cherry shrimp. Let me know if you need some.


definitely! cost?


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

Salmon McCloud said:


> definitely! cost?


PM sent.


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

*Shrimps are okay.*

My shrimp seem to have adapted well to the bucket, tons of babies were in there, had a hard time moving them all to the new 5.5 gallon.
Here are some pics.



























































































Excuse the crappy cell phone pics.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

By the way, where did you purchase thay ASA on/off valve from? Were they recommending it for aqarium use? If so, you should have them pay for your tank and your troubles.

If someone sold you a dangerous product like that, they should compensate you for what happened.


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Asa valve was bought from somewhere on planted tank. Can't remember who.

It wasn't directly the valves fault. My carelessness while using the gla atomizer was at fault here. I was only out whatever I paid for the tank. Gave me a reason to rescape and all is well now

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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

Salmon McCloud said:


> Asa valve was bought from somewhere on planted tank. Can't remember who.
> 
> It wasn't directly the valves fault. My carelessness while using the gla atomizer was at fault here. I was only out whatever I paid for the tank. Gave me a reason to rescape and all is well now
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


It was definitely the valve's (and seller's) fault. That valve/setup can not be used safely, no matter how well you maintain your atomizer. Usually, I'm all for personal responsibility, but you were sold a defective, dangerous product and you should (in my opinion) go after the seller for this.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

What if you had used co2 tubing instead of vinyl?


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

mach_six said:


> What if you had used co2 tubing instead of vinyl?


CO2 tubing is not going to hold up to 800 psi. That is what happens if the line clogs (for any reason). The people selling these as solutions for CO2 injection should be ashamed of themselves.


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Crap happens. Not like they knew it was going to happen. These systems aren't too dangerous if my example is the only one we have right now. Yes, I agree it should have a regulator, found that out through experience.
But you can't really condone the system, it works like it should, cheap alternative.
May not be the safest, but people should know that going into it, I know I did. Regardless of the issue I really think you need to calm down a little bit telling everyone they shouldn't go this route. If they know the risks they can make that decision on their own, not you trying to force everyone to quit.

Also I did use co2 tubing.

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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

Salmon McCloud said:


> Crap happens. Not like they knew it was going to happen. These systems aren't too dangerous if my example is the only one we have right now. Yes, I agree it should have a regulator, found that out through experience.
> But you can't really condone the system, it works like it should, cheap alternative.
> May not be the safest, but people should know that going into it, I know I did. Regardless of the issue I really think you need to calm down a little bit telling everyone they shouldn't go this route. If they know the risks they can make that decision on their own, not you trying to force everyone to quit.
> 
> ...


I don't want to be rude, really, but you should look up the word condone (for future reference).

If you want to continue down this path, be my guest. I can't "force" anyone to do anything. However, I can inform folks about how dangerous this is and you can't "force" me to stop.


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## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Condemn* happy?

It's just rude that you're highjacking threads to "inform" people

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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

I agree. It's the buyers responsibility to be informed.

SMcC was, and unfortunately it didn't work out. Blaming others and whining for them to cover your mistakes is a pitiful way to go through life.

Salmon, glad you got back up and running so quickly and were able to save some shrimp.

Like I said, if you want any help restocking, let me know, I'm in the Kettering area and would be more than happy to toss some plants or a few shrimp your way.


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## Rich Conley (Jun 10, 2008)

galabar said:


> It was definitely the valve's (and seller's) fault. That valve/setup can not be used safely, no matter how well you maintain your atomizer. Usually, I'm all for personal responsibility, but you were sold a defective, dangerous product and you should (in my opinion) go after the seller for this.


 No, he was sold a product that did exactly what its supposed to do. He was just using it in a system that isn't designed to work with that valve.


These are made for paintball, and paintball guns are designed to handle 800psi. 

He made a choice to use a risky system without controls, and it backfired.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

Rich Conley said:


> No, he was sold a product that did exactly what its supposed to do. He was just using it in a system that isn't designed to work with that valve.
> 
> 
> These are made for paintball, and paintball guns are designed to handle 800psi.
> ...


The individual who sold it was claiming that it was fit for a particular purchase, which it was not. Consumer law is pretty clear on this. Most people seeing these items for sale, on this forum and elsewhere, won't understand the hazards involved, especially when the sellers offer them as safe solutions.


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## Rich Conley (Jun 10, 2008)

galabar said:


> The individual who sold it was claiming that it was fit for a particular purchase, which it was not. Consumer law is pretty clear on this. Most people seeing these items for sale, on this forum and elsewhere, won't understand the hazards involved, especially when the sellers offer them as safe solutions.


You should really read the thread that these are being sold out of. The risks are made pretty clear.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

Rich Conley said:


> You should really read the thread that these are being sold out of. The risks are made pretty clear.


Here are the threads:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...5582-fs-new-paintball-co2-setup-complete.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/115850-paintball-co2-injection-diy-setup-tons.html

Neither mentions the safety of this approach in the first post.

Jaggedfury, from his PTrade rating, looks to have sold over 100 of these. Yikes! I hope he doesn't have any assets. That is class action lawsuit territory.


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## Rich Conley (Jun 10, 2008)

Notice how I said "Read the thread" not "read the first post of the thread"


its clearly stated in each thread that you will have 800 psi to the diffuser, and needle valves, and they're not rated for that.


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

This seems to be the point that has gotten galabar so sandy. I think he REALLY, REALLY wants JF to put a disclaimer in the OP of his sales threads.

But you know... that has nothing to do with salmon's thread here, since they're just a user, not a seller.


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## Rich Conley (Jun 10, 2008)

Its one thing to think they need a disclaimer, its another thing to find every paintball co2 thread, and start telling people their tank is going to explode.


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

Indeed.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

Rich Conley said:


> Notice how I said "Read the thread" not "read the first post of the thread"
> 
> 
> its clearly stated in each thread that you will have 800 psi to the diffuser, and needle valves, and they're not rated for that.


Yes, everyone is going to read through 100 pages of a thread to determine if the product advertised on the first page (without a warning) is safe.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

Rich Conley said:


> Its one thing to think they need a disclaimer, its another thing to find every paintball co2 thread, and start telling people their tank is going to explode.


Clearly, a lot of people have purchased this setup without realizing the risk. I'm making some effort to inform them, in, wait for it, ..., the paintball CO2 threads. Go figure.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

Rich Conley said:


> Notice how I said "Read the thread" not "read the first post of the thread"
> 
> 
> its clearly stated in each thread that you will have 800 psi to the diffuser, and needle valves, and they're not rated for that.


On what page, exactly, does Jaggedfury mention any danger with this setup or 800 psi? On what page does anyone mention this?

On page #7, I see this:




fishboy199413 said:


> Hello I may purchase option 4 *but I was wondering how safe is this system*? Will I REALLY need anything else? Also what is the teflon tape for? Thank you.:icon_bigg





Jaggedfury said:


> Awesome!
> 
> 
> The system like any other pressurized system is safe if you take the necessarily percautions in using it. These systems are now being sold at fish aquarium shops also, although they uses another alternative, it works the same way as injecting pressurized co2 gas into your aquarium.
> ...


Really? As safe as any other pressurized CO2 system? Works the same way as injecting pressurized CO2 gas into your aquarium?

Is this what you are talking about?


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

Question, have you tried have a calm, non-threatening conversation with JaggedFury and the others you have an issue with?

Perhaps said, "Hey, why not toss a disclaimer on the OP?"

Also, why do you care SO MUCH?

JWJW


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

MoeBetta said:


> Question, have you tried have a calm, non-threatening conversation with JaggedFury and the others you have an issue with?
> 
> Perhaps said, "Hey, why not toss a disclaimer on the OP?"
> 
> ...


Polite message sent to JaggedFury.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Vendor reviews are not allowed on this forum. If you have an issue with a seller, you need to take it up with them directly. However, the original poster is not even blaming the seller. There are a lot of unknown variables and one instance is not indictive of a faulty product. 
Also, some of you need to read the rules on not insulting others.



galabar said:


> I don't want to be rude, really, but you should look up the word condone (for future reference).
> 
> If you want to continue down this path, be my guest. I can't "force" anyone to do anything. However, I can inform folks about how dangerous this is and you can't "force" me to stop.


But moderators can.  

Since this thread is now violating several policies, and is heading now where good, topic closed. I suggest some of you rehash the user agreement you acknowledged when joining this forum.

OP, sorry about the mishap. I hope you find out the cause of the explosion in order to prevent such an issue in the future. If you do, let us know.


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