# Mininum Photo Period to Grow Plants



## emptyhead (Mar 7, 2010)

My tanks are low tech (no CO2), but one tank only has lights on for 5 hours a day to help control algae growth. If algae starts to spread - I stop feeding for a couple of days to encourage the algae eaters (SAE, ottos, plecos) to eat the algae - and they do.


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## The Rockster (Aug 2, 2007)

I don't have any algae eaters, nor do I have the knowledge of which eat BBA. My ottos died or where eaten.


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## emptyhead (Mar 7, 2010)

The Rockster said:


> I don't have any algae eaters, nor do I have the knowledge of which eat BBA. My ottos died or where eaten.


I would add an SAE to your tank for sure. What other fish stock do you have in the tank?


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

I have always regretted the day I got my SAEs. One bullied the other two. After he managed to chase the other two out of the tank and to their deaths he has been terrorizing all other fish. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR ALMOST SIX YEARS. I hate him. I hate him I hate him. But he will live out the rest of his life in relative luxury in my 90. I mean he chases all the fish in his tank but really doesn't do any damage.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

First how long inbetween all the adjsutments are you giving? Forget the PH swings probably had nothing to do wiht th problem. What are you dosing fertilizer wise? How much light? Pictures of your CO2 split setup, are you runnign 2 seperate needle valves and bubble counters? Search the forums for dosing Hydrogen Peroxide, some have had better luck then excel and much cheaper. How many fish? Pictures can help aswell.

Craig


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Maybe this is time to just take a big handful of cash and sprinkle it directly in the tank?:icon_mrgr

I faced this problem too, and finally decided that when a hobby becomes a baldness inducing chore, it is time to do something else. So, I went to low light only, then to ripariums. I sold my CO2 system, bought different tanks and now I enjoy my hobby again - and my hair is growing out!


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> Maybe this is time to just take a big handful of cash and sprinkle it directly in the tank?:icon_mrgr
> 
> I faced this problem too, and finally decided that when a hobby becomes a baldness inducing chore, it is time to do something else. So, I went to low light only, then to ripariums. I sold my CO2 system, bought different tanks and now I enjoy my hobby again - and my hair is growing out!


Hmm... I love my tank now... but my hair keeps getting thinner, and thinner.


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## Tuiflies (Jan 14, 2010)

Craigthor said:


> First how long inbetween all the adjsutments are you giving? Forget the PH swings probably had nothing to do wiht th problem. What are you dosing fertilizer wise? How much light? Pictures of your CO2 split setup, are you runnign 2 seperate needle valves and bubble counters? Search the forums for dosing Hydrogen Peroxide, some have had better luck then excel and much cheaper. How many fish? Pictures can help aswell.
> Craig


+1

If your plants are looking healthy now, reducing the photo period by an hour won't do anything to them that you won't be able to fix by increasing the photo period back up if they look like they need it.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Hoppy said:


> Maybe this is time to just take a big handful of cash and sprinkle it directly in the tank?:icon_mrgr
> 
> I faced this problem too, and finally decided that when a hobby becomes a baldness inducing chore, it is time to do something else. So, I went to low light only, then to ripariums. I sold my CO2 system, bought different tanks and now I enjoy my hobby again - and my hair is growing out!


Eyebrow "hair" doesn't count 
haha

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

In addition what has been said, ensure the current is good, do not fall for that malarkey about low/no current for the discus.

This will ensure more O2, and more wiggle room with dosing CO2.

Slow and progressive adjustments, watch the fish, particular their coloration/feeding.

Do not adjust then leave for work all day, only adjust when you can watch things closely.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Another simple thing to try is the Excel treatment *with the filters shut off, and powerheads shut off.* If you squirt Excel right on the BBA, so it can dwell there for awhile, it should kill that portion of BBA. I admit that I often failed to do that, preferring to just dose 50% overdose with the water still circulating. That wasn't nearly effective enough. 

On that same subject: if you drain off 50% of the tank water, then dose the Excel right on the effected plants, wait a few minutes then refill the tank. It will be more effective too.

Ultimately you will need to get the CO2 ppm in the water up as high as you can without harming the fish, and, probably reduce the light intensity a bit. You didn't say how much light you have, nor what the tank dimensions are, so I'm not sure if you have way too much light or just the "right" amount. But, BBA grows with high light and low CO2, much of the time.


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## The Rockster (Aug 2, 2007)

Most of the specs are listed under my signature. It easier than listing them for every post.
The good news is that my ear hair is growing like mad....................:bounce:


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You should have only medium light, possibly low medium light. With that, if you can keep a consistent supply of CO2 from day to day, and kill off the BBA you now have, you might be able to avoid it growing back. Unfortunately the top part of almost all tanks is at high light intensity, so BBA tends to grow very well on any plumbing or other hardware near the top, then I think it just spreads to the rest of the tank.

If your BBA is bad on the filter tubes, etc. at the top, one thing you could try is keeping the light fixtures close together and closer to the front of the tank than the back. That would greatly reduce the light on those filter tubes.


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## The Rockster (Aug 2, 2007)

*Still At It*

Well after a 6 month, 6 hour per day photo period, I am slowly increasing the hours per day. The algae seems to have stopped growing. I still have some, but its not getting worse. I bought 5 sword plants a few months ago. Prior to adding the new plants I installed additional substrate (3 gallons). The original substrate wasn't deep enough. I also added my DYI root tabs made of Osmocote Plus. The plants are starting to look rather ragged with algae growing on the leaves, some holes, (clown loaches?) and very slight yellowing. 
On a weekly basis, I prune the distressed looking leaves, as close to the substrate, as I can.

My next course of action is increase the CO2, (which I dread after gassing my discus before) and increasing the length of the photo period.....


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

holes and yellowing are signs of nutrient deficiencies. Did I miss in the thread where you mentioned you dosed fertilizers? Twould be a good thing to know if your algae problems have NOTHING to do with light, but nutrient deficiencies instead. (yes, deficiencies)

Give a quick rundown of how much of what you dose on what schedule and it'll be a lot easier to tell what's going on in there. You obviously have enough flow, light and you've worked on your Co2 as well as adding Excel, but haven't mentioned your fertilizing routine.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

The Rockster said:


> Hi,
> Having some issues with BBA.
> 
> I need to slow down the spread of BBA spores, while I still have some plants left.
> ...


 
Am completely unfamiliar with CO2 injected tanks, but for my attempts at low tech planted aquariums, Reducing photo period ,along with raising the light fixture higher has helped. Perhaps osmocote could be pushed further down near the bottom of substrate?
Excuse me for asking, but I am assuming that most of the filter media is mechanical/ biological? (no carbon,or chemical media)
I used to dose micronutrients (until recently ,ignorant of macros) directly after water change but believe conditioner was possibly binding up some nutrients and began dosing 24 hours after water change and things improved with respect to growth albeit slow growth.
I also used to use Chemipure in nearly all tanks but noted that the list of things removed that appeared on the container/tub,, also included CO2. 
While it may be of little concern in CO2 injected tank, In low tech with no CO2 injection It may be counter productive.
I also employ Malaysian Trumpet snails that seem to keep leaves on Anubia's from gathering much algae.
Do hope you find the root of the problem and am sorry for the loss of your Discus.


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## The Rockster (Aug 2, 2007)

*Dosing 72 gallon planted tank*



jargonchipmunk said:


> holes and yellowing are signs of nutrient deficiencies. Did I miss in the thread where you mentioned you dosed fertilizers? Twould be a good thing to know if your algae problems have NOTHING to do with light, but nutrient deficiencies instead. (yes, deficiencies)
> 
> Give a quick rundown of how much of what you dose on what schedule and it'll be a lot easier to tell what's going on in there. You obviously have enough flow, light and you've worked on your Co2 as well as adding Excel, but haven't mentioned your fertilizing routine.


Hi,

I have been using Seachem Liquid Ferts since 2006. I was bought 1/2 gallons of each, years ago. When I run out I am switching to EI. I follow the dosing schedule* on Seachem's site. The only exception is that I ran out of Excel. I did purchase a small bottle of it for spot treating algae.

http://www.seachem.com/support/PlantDoseChart.pdf

The pic under my user name is with the new plants. I know its hard to see anything. Maybe I can borrow a camera and take more. The plants seem to be declining in health, but not dead.

Monday: Flourish=5ml
Iron=6ml
Phosphorus=4ml
Nitrogen=4ml

Tuesday: Trace=15ml
Iron=6ml 

Wednesday: Potassium-10ml
Iron=6ml

Thursday: Trace=15ml
Iron=6ml
Phosphorus=4ml
Nitrogen=4ml

Friday: Potassium=10ml
Iron=6ml

Saturday: Flourish=5ml
Iron=6ml

Sunday: Water change (40%) + Prime

DYI Root Tabs/ Replaced in 4 month intervals near the swords

* 60 gallon net


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

2006... could the bottles of fertilizer have gone through any temperature fluctiations that caused anything to come out of suspension? You'd be getting far lower results than intended if this were the case. It's hard to determine anything from a distance, but you might check your fertilizer bottles. See if there is anything settled to the bottom. (there shouldn't be) If so, you might want to make the switch to EI now. It feels like a "waste" of fertilizers, but the dry ferts are cheap (very) when compared to just about any other piece of your system.


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## The Rockster (Aug 2, 2007)

*Changes to System*

I did remove the korila powerhead. With the 2 pro Eheims II (+ spraybar kits), and the Marineland C-530 supplying rippling water across the whole surface of the tank, I thought it was over kill. I can always dig out the specs of the canisters, but I believe them to be a myth.

Also I wanted to state that the fishtank while seemingly slowly succumbing to algae and poor plant growth still looks decent. I no longer freak out when problems occur with it.

When I changed my CO2 dispersal system, I purchased a CO2 splitter from GLA, and used two Rhino glass diffusers. While there are more costly & efficient ways to split diffusion, I am quite happy with this.

Thanks for your inputs!


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## The Rockster (Aug 2, 2007)

*Swords are Notorious Fert Hogs*



jargonchipmunk said:


> 2006... could the bottles of fertilizer have gone through any temperature fluctiations that caused anything to come out of suspension? You'd be getting far lower results than intended if this were the case. It's hard to determine anything from a distance, but you might check your fertilizer bottles. See if there is anything settled to the bottom. (there shouldn't be) If so, you might want to make the switch to EI now. It feels like a "waste" of fertilizers, but the dry ferts are cheap (very) when compared to just about any other piece of your system.


I will check my dates as far as receiving the ferts. I payed very little for them, as I have a source, that receives them for free from Seachem.

My gf tells me we re upped some of the ferts since 2006 (Iron & Trace). All ferts are kept under our bare bottom QT tank in the living room. The ferts are shaken and transferred to 250ml bottles for ease of dosing. The dosages are administered via a syringe. 

I have never missed a day of dosing, or a water change since I started keeping this planted tank.
However did forget to do filter maintenance & was late in changing light bulbs, in the beginning.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

I could offer two suggestions:

Get at least one drop checker with 4 KDH water, two would be better since you have a larger aquarium. Put the drop checkers in different areas of the tank to monitor CO2 levels and distribution.

Glass diffusers may not be sufficient for a 72 gallon. You might try a snipped impeller modification on one or two powerheads for CO2 distribution.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/7392-Most-efficient-DIY-needle-wheel


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## The Rockster (Aug 2, 2007)

hbosman said:


> I could offer two suggestions:
> 
> Get at least one drop checker with 4 KDH water, two would be better since you have a larger aquarium. Put the drop checkers in different areas of the tank to monitor CO2 levels and distribution.
> 
> ...


I have an oracle d/c filled with certified 4 KDH water, which changes to green, going on for years now.

I think that my gas dispersion setup is quite adequate, I can tell by the bubbles. Some of the distressed leaves are next to the diffusers.
Tonite I will check & change the light bulbs if needed, and then contemplate upping the CO2.


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## The Rockster (Aug 2, 2007)

jargonchipmunk said:


> 2006... could the bottles of fertilizer have gone through any temperature fluctiations that caused anything to come out of suspension? You'd be getting far lower results than intended if this were the case. It's hard to determine anything from a distance, but you might check your fertilizer bottles. See if there is anything settled to the bottom. (there shouldn't be) If so, you might want to make the switch to EI now. It feels like a "waste" of fertilizers, but the dry ferts are cheap (very) when compared to just about any other piece of your system.


From Seachem:

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?p=8427#post8427


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

well we've addressed the three main drives for the plants to grow healthy. If your light isn't too strong, your Co2 is at adequate levels, the only thing left is the fertilizers. Have you tried testing for nutrients using calibrated test kits, just to see if the fertilizers you're using are hitting the approximate ranges of PPM's suggested for aquatic plants? 

I trust Seachem knows what they're doing, but it might be best to test for yourself anyway. (this is why I use EI. I know exactly what chemicals I'm getting and putting into my water, so I don't have to trust a label to keep me at the right levels)

from everything you've said, it still sounds like a nutrient deficiency to me. (again, without being at the actual tank, it's near impossible for anyone to tell)


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

When using the Flourish liquid fertilizers you need to use Flourish Potassium as well as the others. Flourish nitrogen is not potassium nitrate, so you will be short of potassium without Flourish Potassium.


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