# The 120 gallon high tech discus tank



## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

O this is a high end build! looking forward to updates!


----------



## Hadouken441 (Mar 19, 2010)

Its looking very good so far! Get some hardscape asap and post pics!


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

I've looked into plants a bit more.. and personally decided I like tanks that feature a lot of the same type of plants... I think ill stay away from swords and keep my background plants to just l. Aromatica, and water sprite. midground a lot of blyxa, with some anubias onthe drift wood/towards the foreground, and then hopefully some carpeting glosso in the foreground..


----------



## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

I think getting your hardscape going now is a must.later it will be a lot more difficult. Set up looks great so far. The light is kind of on the high side. How many inches is it off the rim?


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Joel, I'll tell you this now before you have issues, the sump design has a big problem.

Can you guess what it is?

When the water spills over the over flow, and drops a small amount, that is not it, but when it enters the standpipe and goes down the tube, there's a lot of degassing there, this water exits in the sump, and unless recaptured...........is degassing really really well.

How does one recapture it?

By adding the wet/dry chamber and sealing it up. 
This catches and recaptures the degassed CO2.
The water exits the bottom below the water/gas line and thus the cO2 is redissolved back.

The wet/dry chamber itself acts like a secondary CO2 reactor(if it's sealed).
Water still exits out the bottom.......you still get O2 dissolved into the water(CO2 and O2 concentrations act independent)

This will make the system much much easier to adjust the CO2.

FYI.......

ATI are great hoods, but.......you only need 4x 54 W lights, so turn off 2 and add alot more plants to the tank as well.
I had a 120 this same shape and had some of the same issues.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Yeah, co2 is not hooked up yet, I knew the sump would be an issue id run into with off gassing.. I hadn't exactly pictured what I was going to do yet, but sealing the sump to limit or stop off gassing will obviously be a must with pressurized co2. Thanks for the advice though everyone. I've got a big piece of manzanita on order, other than that and a few stones im not real sure what else is going to contribute to the hardscape....but yes looking down an actual more permanent aquascape is next in line on the big to-do list.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Oh, and on the Ati pendent I never planned on running all 6 bulbs.. I figured it was suicide


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Looks great so far. If you don't mind my asking, how much was the Oceanic? I'm in the market for a 120g and like the fact that there is no center brace.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

It was about 850 dollars if I recall correctly... retail was up around 1200 but I got it for cheaper because they were discontinuing the line and replacing it with a new line. You can get something custom constructed and possibly nicer for only a little bit more though (I was priced at 1100 for a slightly nicer tank)


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Whoa, that's pretty expensive. I've been getting price quotes in the range of 500-600 for 120g tanks, but that braceless euro is quite nice!

~ joel mac


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Starfire glass, polished edges, eurobracing, and the overflow makes it expensive.. but all of those things might not be necessary on a freshwater tank.. especially the overflow.


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Oh, I missed the fact that it has a starfire front panel! That's not a bad price at all then.

Do you have a photo of the full stand? I like the extra 2' workspace idea.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Sure, ill upload later tonight. Plan is actually to place a piece of granite countertop on the extra 2' of workspace.. that way it will match the kitchen even more


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

So i was thinking a little bit tonight... 

and of course i could be wrong... but the amount of turbulence created by my current sump set-up is very minimal... when the sump is running at the proper operating height the tank is dead silent, you can't hear the water entering the overflow, entering the overflow pipes, or entering the sump. You also don't see any air coming up from the submerged drain pipe (because it's running at a full siphon)..

I'm wondering if due to the way i have it set-up off gassing might not be as much of an issue as people think? Surely all HOB filters cause more off gassing...and some people still use those, don't they? (I don't know, maybe they don't on CO2 tanks).

only issue would be that i would need to stay right on top of the water level in the sump, as if the water level drops too far then some noise is made as the drain pipe is no longer submerged... however this probably wouldn't be too difficult especially since i'm doing weekly water changes anyways..

Just thinking out loud here... what do you guys think?


----------



## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

cant wait to see the manzanita. once you are ready to get the plants in place, i would recommend that you seperate each stem more. if you get more light to shine on the lower parts of the stems, it will encourage the stems to shoot off more side stems. then the plants will fill in quicker.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> cant wait to see the manzanita. once you are ready to get the plants in place, i would recommend that you seperate each stem more. if you get more light to shine on the lower parts of the stems, it will encourage the stems to shoot off more side stems. then the plants will fill in quicker.



awesome, thanks for the advice! That's exactly the kind of insider advice i was hoping this forum could provide me with.. lol. For anyone who's interested Tim was the man nice enough to donate all of my current plants roud:.

I'll be sure to post up pictures when the manzanita gets in... i've also got some frogbit coming in this week...


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I'd try the setup with co2 added and see what kind of bubble rate it takes to get to your target co2. If it's too much, then make changes to the sump.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

macclellan said:


> I'd try the setup with co2 added and see what kind of bubble rate it takes to get to your target co2. If it's too much, then make changes to the sump.



Yeah, that's probably what I'll do. Upon a lot of consideration i think I've actually got a pretty good sump for a co2 pressurized planted tank... but time will tell.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Two things im pondering at the moment...

Is the aquarium plants electronic regulator the way to go? I've heard some really good reviews about it in the reef world.. but it doesn't seem to many people use it around here.. is it just because of price? It seems as if a lot of people on here budget more and try to be more cost effective as opposed to reefers who like splurge on the best possible equipment. Anyways, im just wondering if the reason I don't see too many people using them is because they're expensive, or if its because there's an equally as good or better regulator option out there..? I suppose a good quality body with a real high quality needle valve and solenoid would work well too.. and probably cheaper. What would you recommend? 

The other thing im pondering is drift wood, im trying to visualize whether or not I want a really large show piece that takes over a very large portion of the tank, or a smaller less obtrusive piece..


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Joel A said:


> Starfire glass, polished edges, eurobracing, and the overflow makes it expensive.. but all of those things might not be necessary on a freshwater tank.. especially the overflow.


Oh course they are require items :icon_cool:









You'll note no built in over flow.
I use a hang on prefilter which takes up less space and then a standard wet/dry sump that's been sealed up. This reduces the CO2 loss to that of a canister filter, since both are sealed.

This may be confirmed with a pH meter for differences(canister vs wet/dry etc).

I did not spend much on the tank of mine, about 1000$.
Satrfire all the way around, ADA like seams.
Lights are 8 bulbs, but I only use the outside 2 pairs, so it's 1.8-1.7w/gal

I use Victor regs(Dual or single stage) and then high grade check valves, burket solenoids and then either a high grade Nupro/Swagelok needle valve with a vernier handle or an Ideal valve. Then Tygon thick tubing. Needle wheel for CO2 feed into the return.

I go high grade on CO2.
Same for light but not high light.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

50 cardinal tetras arrived today... they look awesome in there.

Also my ferts arrived today so i can start the EI dosing system...

Also on order to show up before long is a nice HUGE show piece of manzanita driftwood (Maybe a little bit too big, we'll see how it looks..) along with new light bulbs (giesmann midday and aquaflora).

Also might be starting up co2 here sooner rather than later... right now i'm contemplating how i want to diffuse it... was originally thinking inline with my canister filter via one of the GLA atomizers, but two things are holding me back... i'm worried that the co2 mist will be distracting in the display tank, and they don't have my size in stock... thoughts on this?


----------



## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

I just run the co2 tube into the intake on my fx5, I run enough co2 that there is no way to count the bubbles and have not noticed any mist. Not sure how it would be with your filter, but it is worth a shot. It hasnt caused any increase in the noise from the filter either.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

So you don't use any sort of diffuser? Wouldn't this be less efficient, or is it really that simple?


----------



## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Joel A said:


> So you don't use any sort of diffuser? Wouldn't this be less efficient, or is it really that simple?


No I dont use any other type of diffuser. I honestly cant tell you if it is more or less efficient because its the only way I have ever done it. But I would assume it is extremely efficient, the co2 enters the intake and there is no mist coming out of the output. One would have to assume that it is being fully absorbed, where else are the bubbles going?


----------



## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

theres always a grigg style reactor. you can put it under your stand and you'll never see it.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> theres always a grigg style reactor. you can put it under your stand and you'll never see it.



Yeah, i've looked into those a bit now. Im actually thinking that if i use the inline diffuser and it mists into the back left hand corner of the tank behind all of my tall stemmed plants i wouldn't notice/mind the look much... in the GLA youtube videos the inline diffusers seem to mist a lot less than the in tank diffusers... 

im just having trouble finding the parts.. GLA is out of that inline diffuser, as well as the drop checker... ADA carries only glass diffusers, which don't seem to be as fitting for me... and other than that i don't know where else to really look..


----------



## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

which inline diffuser are you looking at?


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

The GLA 16/22mm inline atmoic diffuser or whatever fancy name they give it.. its on their website.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

sorry guys, not a whole lot to update here recently. Everything is settling in pretty good though, I'm ashamed to admit i did lose a few plants, but the L. Aromatica is really taking off, as is the amazon forgbit, and blyxa. 

I never received my piece of manzanita, as there was an issue with the supplier, but i got my money back so no hard feelings... 

I'm thinking about placing an order from aquariumplants.com , I've put together an order of some anubias nana, corkscrew vals, java fern, an amazon sword plant, and some baby tears planted on driftwood. Will i have any problems growing/sustaining these plants?

Thanks!


----------



## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

Contact Tom or PC1 for manzanita, it is awesome!


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

i'm having someone assemble a "frakenstump" for me.. i've seen some of his other pieces and they look quite good.. so i'm optimistic.

Any thoughts on the plant list that i'm hoping to order from aquariumplants though?


----------



## nature boy (Apr 4, 2011)

I was going to fill you in on that aquariumplants.com regulator. I bought one for my calcium reactor on my reef tank about 2 months ago and it is a much better design. It electronically regulates the bubble count and you can control the size of the bubble with the pressure. Pretty much limitless as far as control. I have a visual bubble counter on my calcium reactor and it is always right on with the flashing led on the regulator.

My problem now is that I think it is overkill for my calcium reactor which is controlled and safegaurded by my reef keeper and ph controller anyway. My plan is to move this regulator over to my 90 gallon planted tank I am setting up right now and find a cheaper regulator for my reactor.

Basically it would be the cat's meow on a planted tank and worth the price.

I might be a little biased too because I live about 10 miles from the aquariumplants.com physical location.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

finally ordered some wood from a member on here... luckily i didn't have too much plant growth that would make it too difficult to construct a hardscape at this point...

here's a picture of the wood... it's very "stumpish" with a lot of different branches coming off of it, i think it will look quite nice.


----------



## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Tharsis has some sweet wood. He hooked me up with a big box (hardscaping about 6 tanks) and I couldn't have been more impressed. Cheap as it gets too.

I like manzanita but I hate the premium price tag.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

so here's a picture of it as of last night...

sorry for the slow moving progress here... wood actually just went in the other day.. I've had it for a while but i was just being lazy and not putting it together... but here it is!

I like the way it looks though...

I've got a lot of floating plants that are impeding the light a bit obviously... but i'm not growing too much in the tank itself anyways... a few more rocks and one more smaller piece of wood are going to make up the rest of the hardscape, and then i can focus in more on planting and figuring out exactly what i want for plants and where... i think i want to keep it to only 5 or 6 different types of plants... i think tanks look best that way.











discus should look nice in there though... if i could ever pick a strain!


----------



## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

looks pretty good now. it'll look awesome when it fills in


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> looks pretty good now. it'll look awesome when it fills in



Thanks Tim! All the original plants you sent me, only thing i obtained elsewhere was the frogbit.. !

I'm thinking about adding co2 soon as well... if i can wrap my head around all of it that is.. haha


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

I think I decided im going to stay away from co2 for now.. I think that high light, high nutrients and co2 could potentially just lead to a lot of issues that im not looking for at the moment... I think that I can create a good looking tank with the "low tech" style tank keeping.. the blyxa is doing quite well, and I think im going to pick up some swords, maybe some vals, and some java fern... in the future if I want to go co2 and add 2 more t5s ill always have that option.. but for the time being I think im going to keep it simple, especially because I want the discus to be the centerpiece, not the aquascape itself... but feel free to stay tuned for more updates soon!


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Just placed a big order online for java fern, jungle vals, anubias bateri, and amazon sword... should fill out the aquascape nicely I hope... 

Fish coming soon as well!


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

also just ordered 5 mata limpa semi royal blue discus!!! They will be here Tuesday morning....

Everythings starting to come together a bit here!


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Plants came in today... sword, ferns and anubias look great, vals are a little rough looking but I hear they're pretty resilient, hopefully they'll come back nicely... I've got a ton of them to fill in the background.. tank is cloudy and lights just went off, so ill take some photos tomorrow..


----------



## daverock1337 (Jan 17, 2011)

subscribed. this is my plan for august. a 120 planted discus aquarium. can't wait to see it all planted with the discus in it...


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

so uhh... looks a little bit different than it did two weeks ago from my last photo.. 

full tank shot...









from the right viewing panel...









right half...









left half...









and a cardinal tetra for good measure... (still having a hard time photographing small fish, i think i need a macro lens..)











let me know what you think!


----------



## nature boy (Apr 4, 2011)

Looks great! I am setting up a 90 gallon just like this. Fill us in on how the sump is working and the discus are doing if you have them


----------



## Treekiller (Aug 30, 2011)

Yeah, what nature boy said!

Please update on the sump, more pictures of the setup would be nice for us uneducated types. Just getting started in this type of setup, I have been a reefer for a long time and this is a completely different world.

Thanks in advance


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Joel A said:


> so uhh... looks a little bit different than it did two weeks ago from my last photo..
> 
> full tank shot...
> 
> ...


Looking great so far. That giant val will make a dense screen in the background area. Once it starts growing good it goes nuts.


----------



## nickc (Aug 12, 2011)

Try using a higher F stop, like f/11 or f/22 to increase depth of field. You may need to increase the ISO as well if you are shooting manually(keep the shutter speed above 50). Should let you get more infocus. 

It also depends on your camera and lens as well as different lenses have different minimum focal lengths with macros being the shortest. I use a 17-40mm f/4 and it's minimum focal distance is 11", while it may not seem short you have to remember that's the distance to the sensor (inside back of the camera) not the end of the lens. IE 6-5" from the front of the lens.


IF you do get a macro, get a 100mm,150mm or 180mm, wou don't need one unless you want to take pictures of shrimp 20" from the glass and then you would need to worry about chronomatic abbreviation if you are not at 90 degrees to the glass(this is the blue halo around objects). But for the cost of a 180mm canon most people could set up a 120g tank.


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Hey everyone-- It's been a while here.

Basically what ended up happening was that the plants that I brought in took off with the "low tech" set-up that I was running... 









That was the tank a little while ago..

Since then, I left for school, and my mother was left to take care of the tank. With little to no knowledge of what she was doing, I was impressed by her dedication and she did a great job keeping the fish alive... the plants however did suffer.

I'm home now for a while, and am going to redo this tank... I've still got the cardinals, 6 discus, a number of bristle nose plecos, and cory cats.. However for plants all i've got left is a little bit of anubias and frogbit... so the tank will be entirely replanted.

Before I replant entirely however, I'm going to give CO2 a try (finally). I'll definitely have some questions along the way, but I'm not very intimidated by it (largely thanks to my CO2 knowledge from running saltwater calcium reactors). 

Anyways, the plan remains much the same, good maintenance, good lighting, fert dosing... but now I'm going to add some high quality CO2 to the mix as well. 

Once the lights come on today I'll post up a pick of the tank in its current condition (pretty bare).

I'd also like to add some more flow to the tank to eliminate dead spots on the substrate as well as give the plants some more flow... any recommendations on the best way to do this? I was just thinking a powerhead or two, but with the discus in the tank I'm not entirely sure how much flow I'm looking for... would LOVE some suggestions on this topic.

Thanks guys!


----------



## Joel A (Mar 28, 2010)

Also wanted to address the issue about the sump off gassing CO2, typically I could see how this would make sense... but I'm a bit curious as to the detrimental effects (if any) that my sump would have on gassing off CO2..

I use the "herbie" method overflows, which basically uses a FULL siphon in the main standpipe, allowing in NO air or bubbles... the drain pipe outlet is then fully submerged under the water in the sump level... this creates a very quiet, no splashing, no gurgling type of overflow.. when operating properly (which i admit is not all the time) the water drops ≥1" from the tank level to the overflow level... when not operating properly however the water slowly trickles over the overflow box and drops maybe 3-4".

Anyways, I'm wondering if because of the unique overflow type that I'm using if I will have as many CO2 off gassings problems as others with sump setups? Well I guess it's not that unique but most people probably still use durso standpipes?

Any thoughts on this as well as the water flow?


----------

