# Effect of catappa leaves on water



## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

First, it depends on your water. The more kh you have the less it will move

My fish love catappa leaves, alder cones, cholla. At least I think they do[emoji12]


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

It may also depend on the size of the tank, how many leaves are in the tank, and how frequent water changes are done.


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## ustabefast (Jan 24, 2017)

They won't do much to soften it if you have hard water, but the shrimp should graze on the little critters they attract.
I've never seen any change in hardness nor have I seen tannin discoloration but I only use one leaf per 10
gallons.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

One to ten is about what I use. My Bolivians like to spawn on them. 


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I recently added catappa leaves to my tanks and though it would lower pH, but I saw no change. In my smallest tank it was just enough to tint the water slightly, still no drop in pH. Which is ok, but if you want it to make a different might have to add a _lot_ of leaves. (I was surprised as I'd thought it would soften the water).

Driftwood did more to lower pH in my tank than adding leaves.


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## Discusfan99 (Feb 25, 2017)

While this doesn't directly relate to question it seems to be a good place to ask, I have been trying to add tannis to my water (as well as lower ph/soften it) and have had no such luck. Currently I have a bunch of peat moss in my sump as well as driftwood in the tank, right now I am considering adding oak leaves to the aquarium but can't find anyone with an oak tree. So first question is there any other leaves (besides catappa) that will add tannis to the water, and secondly is there any other methods out there that I haven't tried?


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

If you really want tannin boil your leaves. Use a kettle you don't like. The tea will be concentrated 


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## Discusfan99 (Feb 25, 2017)

mbkemp said:


> If you really want tannin boil your leaves. Use a kettle you don't like. The tea will be concentrated
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did that with my peat, and have been adding it slowly everyday. But not much has changed, and actually my kh has gone up a little bit. 
P.S. The peat moss is Canadian sphagnum and has no added fertilizers


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

For the amount of tannins/acids in IAL, it depends a lot on time of season it was harvested, the nutrients and health of the tree, and how it was dried. 

In the aquarium, KH plays the biggest role in allowing the acids to reduce pH. Also, size of leaf affects amount of tannins / acids in the leaf. 

I generally put in a new leaf when the previous one is starting to deteriorate. This means I usually have three to four in the tank at a time. In my 29, I don't see much of a drop, maybe .2 pH though that could just be fluctations in tap... In my 20, I do the same, and I've seen up to a .4 pH change.

As for other methods, peat moss is second to only an RO system at reducing both types of hardness and the resulting TDS. It does require time and quality peat though. I'm not sure what boiling it would do though.

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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Might also look into alder cones. May or may not get the pH drop, but if you have enough cones, you will get tannins! And it doesn't take many! (not pinecones!)


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## Ganthet (Aug 9, 2017)

Hi all,

Since many people suggest that a high KH may be the culprit, I shall lay out my water parameters here, so at least that's known.

pH: ~ 8.0
GH: ~ 7
KH: ~ 2-3

A few notes: I understand my pH is high but that's actually straight out the tap, the tap water around here is quite alkaline due to municipal treatment. As for the GH and KH, that's probably due to topping up after evaporation (I use a fan to cool my tank).

I think I'll need to reduce my KH at the very least. If anyone has additional suggestions, I would love to hear them!


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## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

Your kH is actually quite low, low enough to have concerns about pH dropping unpredictability. I would by no means be attempting to lower it further.

Why are you trying to lower any of your prams anyway? 

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## Discusfan99 (Feb 25, 2017)

Ganthet said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Since many people suggest that a high KH may be the culprit, I shall lay out my water parameters here, so at least that's known.
> 
> ...


Yeah mine is
pH- 7.7
GH- 8-9
KH- 8
I haven't gotten any of them to lower either, except for my pH a couple of decimals. I was also hoping to make it a, somewhat blackwater aquarium for my discus and cories, but haven't had any luck there either. I was considering just dumping a bunch of the boiled peatmoss water in (I have added a little bit every day, but I really haven't noticed the water turning darker), but that would only be a temporary fix and may make one of the prams jump.



sfsamm said:


> Your kH is actually quite low, low enough to have concerns about pH dropping unpredictability. I would by no means be attempting to lower it further.
> 
> Why are you trying to lower any of your prams anyway?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Why is it that everybody has the water parameters that everybody else wants? :icon_roll


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## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

Discusfan99 said:


> Why is it that everybody has the water parameters that everybody else wants? :icon_roll


Anyone can have any parameters they want if they RODI lol

My params are pH 8-8.2, kH 10 and gH 15.... Up until my recent move everywhere I lived with tanks was 7.4-7.6 with kH 4-8, and gH 5-12. Only water I'd like to see out of the tap is some nice soft acidic stuff with a kH or 3 or lower lol

I'm just curious if the op is trying to lower params specifically for a reason as kH is quite low already and the water is suitable for many fish. Like what's the end goal? Sometimes knowing that information helps to help get them going the right direction. 

I've seen many posts with people trying to get a neutral pH, while keeping live bearer fish because they assume they have to have that neutral pH from erroneous fish store advice or any number of websites that spew misinformation. Like I said though the reasoning for lowering parameters can be important in providing the proper information to help.  

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## Discusfan99 (Feb 25, 2017)

sfsamm said:


> Anyone can have any parameters they want if they RODI lol
> 
> My params are pH 8-8.2, kH 10 and gH 15.... Up until my recent move everywhere I lived with tanks was 7.4-7.6 with kH 4-8, and gH 5-12. Only water I'd like to see out of the tap is some nice soft acidic stuff with a kH or 3 or lower lol
> 
> ...


Translation: "Anyone can have the water parameters the want if they can drop half a grand on it" lol

Yeah tbh, I've found, as most anybody who has kept fish for a while knows, keeping your parameters steady is a lot of times more important than what they are. That being said, I would like to lower my GH and KH as well as add some tannis to the water. That must have been nice where you used to live, I would consider that almost perfect aquarium water (for most freshwater fish, obviously not lake Tanganyika and such).


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

Discusfan99 said:


> Translation: "Anyone can have the water parameters the want if they can drop half a grand on it" lol


It doesn't take anywhere near that much money to get a decent RO setup going...


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## Discusfan99 (Feb 25, 2017)

Lingwendil said:


> It doesn't take anywhere near that much money to get a decent RO setup going...


True, I hadn't checked in quite a while, prices have gone way down. Of course you're going to have to for the cartridges which run about 20-40. (not sure how often they have to be replaced).


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## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

Discusfan99 said:


> True, I hadn't checked in quite a while, prices have gone way down. Of course you're going to have to for the cartridges which run about 20-40. (not sure how often they have to be replaced).


Depends on the tap water. The system that I have tossed around for a cardinas experiment is less than $50 and cartridges are about $8-9. It only does about 4 gallons a day, but doesn't have to be plumbed in. 

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## Ganthet (Aug 9, 2017)

sfsamm said:


> Anyone can have any parameters they want if they RODI lol
> 
> My params are pH 8-8.2, kH 10 and gH 15.... Up until my recent move everywhere I lived with tanks was 7.4-7.6 with kH 4-8, and gH 5-12. Only water I'd like to see out of the tap is some nice soft acidic stuff with a kH or 3 or lower lol
> 
> ...


Hi, I see your point. Allow me to clarify the purpose of lowering my parameters. 

I have kept cardinal tetras, harlequin rasboras, RCS, and Amano shrimp happily for years using the parameters I've mentioned (pH 8 GH 7 KH 3). 

However, I recently acquired some Crystal Red and Crystal Black shrimp. They have generally done okay with my water, even though the pH and GH is higher than most would recommend (perhaps being locally bred they are more used to the water here).

That said, I am a bit greedy and I would like to try to get them to breed. In order to do that, I would definitely have to lower pH and GH by some amount. I tried using a water softener pillow, but the drop in GH was quite drastic (from 8 to ~5 in 48 hours), and I suffered a few losses of CRS.

I am looking for natural ways to lower my parameters, because I'm definitely not ready to commit to an RO system at this time.

Thank you all for your kind comments and suggestions, please keep them coming!


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## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

Have you tried using the softener outside of the tank in bucket or tub and slowly changing out a small amount of water daily to slowly change them over? Once you get the pramaters similar you would be able to return to your previous maintenance schedule and just use your "aged" water. I know keeping a bin of water around even a couple days is impractical for some people but you'd have consistent parameters if you can accommodate it. Also as I'd stated earlier the RODI system I have tossed around is less than $50 to start and cartridges are less than $10 to replace but it's only going to get you about 4 gallons a day but it does successfully (I know a couple people using it) get you to a zero TDS so you can make your perfect water with a bit of patience and planning for a considerably smaller investment than many rodi systems and doesn't have to get plumbed in under the kitchen sink, they're being ran off washing machine connections where I know they are used, easy installation and easy removal. 

I think I'd read you were trying sphagnum, may try peat, I do not know the difference but have heard references to a difference in effectiveness. Though if memory serves it was more to do with where the sphagnum was harvested and how it was handled making it potentially less effective. It's been a while since I've read that though so take it with a grain of salt but something worth looking into maybe? 

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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

You're better off starting up a new tank for your fancy Caridinas with correct buffering substrate, RO/DI water and minerals rather than trying to change a current tank.


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