# PAR required for elatine and reineckii mini



## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Added e. triandra and a. reineckii mini a couple of weeks ago. The triandra lasted a week or so before melting; the reineckii is fading, turning greenish/brownish. I'm dosing EI standard, temp is 73-74F, and the CO2 is high enough to have the fish hanging out at the surface near the end of the 6-hour photoperiod. Based on Hoppy's chart, PAR should be about 65 mmol (2x Catalina T5HOs 18" above the substrate and 4" apart in a 29g). Do these plants simply require even higher light? 

One thought: The bulbs are probably around 27 months old. How significantly does that affect output?


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Cant find the thread, think it was a tank journal, but somebody recently replaced their T5HOs after a couple of years and PAR went up from like 40 to 90. This is just to the best of my recollection mind you. But yeah after that long it can make an extreme difference.

Though I will say that melting after a week seems to point to something else besides too little light.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Ok, I'm going to replace the bulbs today. I suspect the elatine problem could be pH or dGH related but haven't found any solid data.

Perhaps a better question would be how much PAR is required to keep reineckii truly RED.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Rainer said:


> Ok, I'm going to replace the bulbs today. I suspect the elatine problem could be pH or dGH related but haven't found any solid data.
> 
> Perhaps a better question would be how much PAR is required to keep reineckii truly RED.


http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...etails.php?id=202&category=genus&spec=Elatine


> Once plants have adjusted to their new home, the hardest part is over. As long as certain requirements are met, _Elatine triandra_ does not pose any particular problems. More than anything, this plant is a �nutrient hog�. Surprisingly high levels of iron and macro nutrients are necessary if the plant is to thrive; don�t skimp on either. If a nutrient-rich substrate is not used, heavy water column fertilization is recommended. Important too are abundant carbon dioxide and unobstructed lighting. Finally, _E. triandra_ does best if the temperature is not allowed to exceed about 76 degrees Fahrenheit (24C).


reneckii seems to like high Nitrate levels..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35447&page=2


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Shouldn't dosing EI be enough for either plant?

New bulbs have been ordered.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Rainer said:


> Shouldn't dosing EI be enough for either plant?
> 
> New bulbs have been ordered.


Maybe.. all depends on the plants and "exactly" what you are dosing.. ie. including iron??

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html

I'm not ruling out a lack of proper lighting though.. Just giving a few more possibilities..

Like trying root tabs vs water column feeding..

Also 6 hours seems short.. 
I tend to think lighting first, since it is easier to quantify initially..
but it is more expensive to correct..

IF (since you don't quite state it) are running a dual or what? What bulbs? Standard daylight ect..
http://www.aquatraders.com/30-inch-2x24W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52121sp.htm

This would correct any low light problems: 
http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Aquarium-Lighting-EVO-Quad-Freshwater-Plant-p/56575p.htm


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm dosing 1/8 CSM+B 3x/week but no additional iron. I've been away from the hobby for awhile and thought I remembered that EI was designed to cover all potential shortages. I'll start supplementing iron today.

Substrate is eco-complete and granules from years-ago root tabs still pop up when planting.

I'm running a Floramax bulb along with a standard daylight bulb, with Giesemann equivalents on the way. Even with this dosing and older bulbs, I'm getting thread algae on the cyperus blades and amorphous blobs in the DHG. CO2 is still too high, depending on water level.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

How much iron should I supplement beyond the CSM+B using liquid Fe?


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm dosing an extra 2 ml of liquid iron on micro days and the AR mini is turning red again, though not the vibrant hue it had been.


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

Don't think the ARs require all that much light actually, even though good examples that I have are all under 100ish PAR.... even under shade/crowded conditions they don't lose their coloration. I think it may be more of a substrate, regular fertilization issue. Or a combination of having better quality lighting and other factors.



















can watch the vid here: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHr2SPsoxg

I'm dosing slightly less than standard EI... for quite a dense tank, so don't think its particularly sensitive to high Fe levels for coloration in that sense. However, I do dose daily


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Wow, those are some beautiful pics. Mine looks nothing like that, despite all the high lighting, CO2, and EI. 

You mentioned substrate, possibly in connection with other factors. I'm using eco-complete but having issues with a film of scum on the glass just above and just below the substrate. There are brownish patches away from the glass; I'd assumed that was mulm but it could be the scum.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

"other factors" could include genetics...


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> "other factors" could include genetics...


Ha, I'm using the AR mini and rosenavig from Tropica tissue cultures, so those are pretty standard I think

I think good CO2/flow helps, my AR minis in low tech high light tanks get more orange red than truly red. Tom barr mentioned that using a richer soil/dirt substrate might be helpful as well...

Lighting helps on the visual front if using bulbs/leds that are heavy in red/blue for stuff to appear redder


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