# LED build for 6' tank --- Good Enough Par Readings vid page 7



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

justincgdick said:


> I want to build a LED fixture for my new tank, 72"x24"x22"tall and I'm think LED is the way to go. I want to be able to have a full sunrise, sunset and moonlight program as well as enough light to be able to grow whatever I want...........I am thinking I should get 6 royal blues for moonlighting, but I don't know about the rest.


I don't think the RapidLED controller will do moon cycles. You'll need to find a different way to power the LEDs than using the Meanwell and the RapidLED controller. 

A Buckpuck (dimmable!) on a timer, dialed WAY WAY WAY down, would work. Or just leave them running 24/7, at such a low drive current, the LEDs will run for eons (a decade at least). 




> These are the parts I'm thinking so far, but I have no sweet clue if it'll work out the way I'm intending. I use a 6500K and 10000K combo on most of my tanks. I like the way it looks in general so that is the look I'm going for with this fixture.


Should work just fine. I haven't used the RapidLED controller but I am very, very familiar with this model driver. I own two P models and two D (analog voltage dimming) models.

Be sure to turn the current down inside the Meanwell using the SRV2 screw before you juice the LEDs, sometimes they come pre-set at 1300mA.




> I am thinking of using aluminum cantruss for the heatsink to save some cash. I'm thinking 72 3w Crees should do it, 12 per driver. I'm not sure what type of Crees I should get. Maybe 50/50 of cool and neutral white?



Don't use a 50/50 combo. That's way too blue. If you are running them all on the same driver, use more like a 4:1 white:blue combo if you like a higher K temp look. 

I'm using 13 Crees over an 11g rimless right now and the array is was once over my reef. It has a 50/50 white/blue combo (6:7) and with both white and blues at 1,000mA, it looks odd. 

I run the blues at about 250-350mA and the whites at 1,000mA, looks great to me.






> Will the controller be all I need to control the lighting or do I need something else as well?



I don't recall if the RapidLEd controller needs a DC voltage wall wart, but if not, this is all you need, other than a cheap power cord (like a spare drop cord) for power to the Meanwell. 

And of course, nuts-n-bolts like thermal epoxy, 60/40 solder, heatshrink, etc...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I suggest you plan on having the light hanging at least a foot above the tank, to give more uniform PAR from top to bottom of the tank, to give you some shimmer from having fewer LEDs, and to make tank maintenance easier. And, you might as well go with the Cree XM-L LEDs instead of XP-G, for more power capability, in case you need it. I think, but I'm not sure, that you need fewer than 72 LEDs - just a couple of rows, close together, perhaps 40-50 total LEDs. Once I finish building my latest one and get some PAR data I may be a lot more sure of this.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

redfishsc said:


> I don't think the RapidLED controller will do moon cycles. You'll need to find a different way to power the LEDs than using the Meanwell and the RapidLED controller.
> 
> A Buckpuck (dimmable!) on a timer, dialed WAY WAY WAY down, would work. Or just leave them running 24/7, at such a low drive current, the LEDs will run for eons (a decade at least).
> 
> ...


Okay. For the moonlights ill use something else and drive it with my aquacontroller Jr to similate moon cycles. It can also do the dimming for me. 

I am planning on using 6 drivers that each drive 12 leds of a single color. That way I can fine tune it. Will I be able to adjust the full-on intensity of each string while still having the sunrise/sunset?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Hoppy said:


> I suggest you plan on having the light hanging at least a foot above the tank, to give more uniform PAR from top to bottom of the tank, to give you some shimmer from having fewer LEDs, and to make tank maintenance easier. And, you might as well go with the Cree XM-L LEDs instead of XP-G, for more power capability, in case you need it. I think, but I'm not sure, that you need fewer than 72 LEDs - just a couple of rows, close together, perhaps 40-50 total LEDs. Once I finish building my latest one and get some PAR data I may be a lot more sure of this.


Okay, so how about 4 drivers of 12 leds each, one of neutral, two of warm white and one driver doing a mix. 

I was planning on having the fixture hanging with room to raise it even more to have full adjustment. Would 40 degree lenses be ideal?

How many rows of cantruss should I have? I was thinking four but I don't know how much space I need between each led and the rows. 

Thanks for the help guys.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

At this time I think 48 LEDs will be enough, in two rows of 24, with the rows stopping about 6 inches from each end of the tank. I think the rows could be about 6 inches apart and give you good uniform coverage of the substrate, with no spill over.

With most, if not all optics, the center half of the beam is much brighter than the outer half. At 36 inches, 60 degree optics would give a total beam width of about 36 inches, with the center part being about 18 inches in diameter. I would try to get that 18 inches end just about at the glass, with the rest of the bean being reflected off the glass to the substrate. At the top of the tank, the beams would be about 12 inches in diameter, big enough not to look disturbingly like spotlights. With the LEDs 6 inches apart, the beams would extend to 3 inches from the glass at the water line. That leaves only a small wedge of water at the top of the tank, front and back, with very low light.

40 degree optics would give beam diameters too small to look good, in my opinion.

Those drivers produce 1.3 amps from the factory. You could adjust the internal pot on each of them to reduce that to 1 amp, if you want to limit the maximum current. With the heatsink you are using, that is probably a good idea.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

So with strips mounted 6" apart the center of the tank will be highest light with the intensity decreasing slightly towara the front and rear glass, and more as you move up the glass towards the rim?

And you mean a 18" circle within the 36" beam footprint will have the greatest intensity, correct? Are the strips so close togethe to limit spill beyond the tank?

Would it be worthwile to mount a few small heatsinks to the cantruss? Contact could be an issue but I could cut out the sides of the channel where the sink could sit flat on the opposite side of the LEDs. 

I'm probably going to use spring nuts to make up a simple double rail design with the rails spread 6" apart and a few cross members and then wrap it with a piece of sheet metal. I made actually add two more rails outside the two housing the LEDs to have a flat surface to bolt the sheet metal to. Hopefully I can make it look clean like an ada fixture. I might get a welder to weld on two semi circular end caps which will finish the fixture and be a place to mount a fan to draw the heat up away from the tank, past the LEDs and through the fixture for cooling and keep the heat rising away from the water.


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

If you are running XPGs, at 1,000mA or less, you can actually run 14 of them per Meanwell (48v). Might as well get those two extra in there .


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Two reasons for having the strips close together. One is to allow for more shimmer, and the other is to get a higher light intensity. The 6 inches lets the circle of maximum intensity just reach the glass, both front and back. I don't think there will be much drop off in PAR front to back, but at each end it will probably drop over the last 6 inches or so, but should still be around half of the maximum. But, as I said, until I get some PAR measurements on my light, which is designed in a similar way, I can't be sure.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

redfishsc said:


> If you are running XPGs, at 1,000mA or less, you can actually run 14 of them per Meanwell (48v). Might as well get those two extra in there .





Hoppy said:


> Two reasons for having the strips close together. One is to allow for more shimmer, and the other is to get a higher light intensity. The 6 inches lets the circle of maximum intensity just reach the glass, both front and back. I don't think there will be much drop off in PAR front to back, but at each end it will probably drop over the last 6 inches or so, but should still be around half of the maximum. But, as I said, until I get some PAR measurements on my light, which is designed in a similar way, I can't be sure.


Ahh, makes sense. A nice shimmer would be fantastic. About the extra two XPGs, I'll have to wait for Hoppy's par readings to make a final decision on which LEDs to use. I want to have enough power that I never need to worry about lighting, but also make it cost effective in terms of power, and price.

If I can use less of the XPGs overall, as in 42 on three drivers, that would be even better, but I'm thinking 48 XML is what I'll do on four drivers. The flexibility will be nice, as this tank could become anything over the next 10 years. With the extra two rails I'll have, I could later add two more rows of LEDs for a reef, if I lose my mind and abandon planted tanks. I want to be able to grow a carpet of anything I want, even though the tank will probably be a lot lower light. Tom Barr I believe has mentioned around 30 par at the substrate is good for most crypts, etc. and I don't want to be in this tank every week trimming. I like the overgrown look and up to a month between large trimmings.

My landlord lives upstairs and OKed this tank (I think he's nuts, but an awesome guy) and he's gonna hook me up with a guy who can weld up the fixture case for me. ADA style, nice and clean, probably polished sheet metal.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

justincgdick said:


> My landlord lives upstairs and OKed this tank (I think he's nuts, but an awesome guy) and he's gonna hook me up with a guy who can weld up the fixture case for me. ADA style, nice and clean, probably polished sheet metal.


You need to buy health insurance and life insurance for that landlord! He is too good to ever lose.:icon_smil


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

As we were carrying it down the stairs, I said "here's your three year lease."
He said, "what happens if this breaks..."


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Okay, I'm thinking of getting the 48 Ultra Premium LED DIY Kit with Dimmable Drivers from rapid LED to make things simple. It comes with XPGs. Mike at Rapidled said I can mix and match any colours I want. I'm looking for a colour temperature of around 8000K.

I first thought 25:75 cool to neutral but Mike said that would be very yellow.
He recommended 1:1:1 cool:neutral:royal blue

That seems like it would be a lot of blue, but the spec sheets on the Cree website says this:
Cool white is 5000-8300K
Neutral is 3700-5000K
Royal Blue 450-465nm

Anyone have some experience in this department?


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

justincgdick said:


> Okay, I'm thinking of getting the 48 Ultra Premium LED DIY Kit with Dimmable Drivers from rapid LED to make things simple. It comes with XPGs. Mike at Rapidled said I can mix and match any colours I want. I'm looking for a colour temperature of around 8000K.
> 
> I first thought 25:75 cool to neutral but Mike said that would be very yellow.
> He recommended 1:1:1 cool:neutral:royal blue
> ...



1:1:1 sounds about right. You need to remember that the XPG's are a heck of alot brighter than the royal blue XRE's. Just dim down the royal blues to achieve the color temp you want by turning the current adjustment screw on the driver. You'll still be able to dim the lighting for sunrise/sunset with the controller. Easy as pie :biggrin: .


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

O2surplus said:


> 1:1:1 sounds about right. You need to remember that the XPG's are a heck of alot brighter than the royal blue XRE's. Just dim down the royal blues to achieve the color temp you want by turning the current adjustment screw on the driver. You'll still be able to dim the lighting for sunrise/sunset with the controller. Easy as pie :biggrin: .


Cool. Hopefully this baby has enough power.

I think I'm going to leave out the controller for now, and build an arduino controller once I figure out how, or find someone to make me one. That way I can have the sunrise/sunset and also use the royal blues for moonlights. If I can find someone good enough at code, I can get a program that will dim them like the actual moon, and just have the day cycle override them so I have the colours I want.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I recieved my Arduino Duemilanove along with a real time clock, lcd screen and prototype board in the mail. Total cost as about $38 shipped. 
The Duemilanove has 6 x 5v PWM outputs so I can dim 6 channels independently. This is one reason I chose the Duemilanove over the the Uno and other models.

I also put my order in for my LEDs and other supplies from LEDgroupbuy.com:



Cart Items SKU Qty Item Price Item Total
Arctic Silver Matrix 2.5g
MTX-2.5G 3 $4.83 USD $14.49 USD
CREE XM-L Cool White T5
(This product is available for pre-order only)
XMLAWT-00-0000-0000T5051 28 $6.80 USD $190.40 USD
CREE XP-E Royal Blue
(This product is available for pre-order only)
XPEROY-L1-0000-00B01 12 $3.39 USD $40.68 USD
CREE XP-G Neutral White R3
(This product is available for pre-order only)
XPGWHT-L1-0000-00FE5 12 $4.97 USD $59.64 USD
Heatsink 5.886 inch x 12 inch
(This product is available for pre-order only)
B012 4 $22.00 USD $88.00 USD
OEM Digital Multimeter DT-830B
DT-830B 1 $6.96 USD $6.96 USD
XM-L Optic
(Degree: 40)
(Degree: 40)
(This product is available for pre-order only)
LLC01W-40 28 $2.48 USD $69.44 USD
XP-* Optic
(Degree: 60)
(Degree: 60)
(This product is available for pre-order only)
LL01CR-DF60L-M 24 $1.59 USD $38.16 USD
Subtotal: $507.77 USD
Shipping: $86.05 USD
Insurance for shipping: $17.23 USD
Grand Total: $611.05 USD

I bought thermal grease as I have decided to drill and tap the four heatsinks instead of gluing them on. As there aren't many people out there who are yet using the XM-L LEDs, I found it very difficult to find information on what I would need. Hoppy, O2Surplus and Evilc66 were very helpful and gave me whatever info they could, as well as Milad at LEDgroupbuy. However, most info I could find was geared towards Reef tanks.

O2Surplus told me he was using 48 XP-G over a 200+ gallon tank running at 1000mA. I compared the specs of XM-L T5s, T6s and XP-Gs and the spec sheet indicated that the T5 XM-Ls would give me a little more than double the lumen of the XP-G when running at 2000mA. The cost per lumen is also a little under half. If I jumped to T6 XM-L, the cost was more per lumen, but still cheaper than the XP-G

At 1500mA: XPG were 44lm/$, T6 were 60lm/$ and T5 were 75lm/$. Obviously I can't compare the XPG to XML above the XPG max current of 1500mA.

I will be using (4) 12"x5.8" heatsinks mounted close to the ceiling. The two middle HS will face down and the outside two will likely be tilted slightly in. I will have to play with them later. I got my pendant ideas from this build. I chose 40 degree optics due to the height above the substrate, likely 6' or so. I do want to have some spillover so I can grow houseplants around the tank. I live in a basement and natural light is limited.

I also ordered 12 neutral white and 12 royal blue xpg. I want the RB in case I want a bluer look and some colour pop. I'm aiming for around 8000K and the CW XML should be between 5000-8300K. The neutral white are to add red back in as well as colour pop. I also intend to bring the RB down at night for moonlights. The NW and RB have 60 degree optics as I intend them to be more for colour rendering than power, but I still believe they will pack a punch.

For drivers I am getting (2) meanwell 24V, 13A power supplies. I am using drivers with (4) 1000mA channels each. I am ordering (4) drivers and will parallel three channels on each for running the XM-L at 3000mA max. The remaining 4 channels will be for the XPG and XPE running at 1000mA max. I do not however think the XML will need 3000mA and if that's the case they will get 2000mA max instead. All this will be controlled by my arduino. 4 Channels will control groups of 6-7 XML and the other two channels will control the neutral whites and royal blues.

To be completely honest, I think I will have waaay more power than I need and if that is the case, I may use some of the LEDs for another build for my 360 osaka. I also want to build a small fixture for in my window for plants, so that is another use for some of the XPG if they are not needed.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

This is the link I used for my Cree LED comparisons. Make sure you select the correct flux type in order to get lumen numbers for the actual bin you are ordering. 

http://pct.cree.com/


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Check my built for the SW tank, hope that helps with the build a little bit http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/diy-do-yourself/81156-cree-led-light-write-up.html


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

smoq said:


> Check my built for the SW tank, hope that helps with the build a little bit http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/diy-do-yourself/81156-cree-led-light-write-up.html



Thanks for the link. I just read through it and that a nice little write-up you did there.

Did you ever take par reading for it?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

justincgdick said:


> Thanks for the link. I just read through it and that a nice little write-up you did there.
> 
> Did you ever take par reading for it?


You might consider placing lights front ot back, maybe 4-6 of those blocks like at RA forums, but with only 12 lamps per block and space them 14-12" apart and have them be say 4"-6" wide x 16" long. These 16" long strips will be front to back depth. Scaped out like this, it will give you nice even spread.

The other option is a bar the entire length of the tank (say 72" x 8")of them with the lens, and tilt each lens 10 degrees opposite of the adjacent to increrase spread. 40 degrees or 60 degree lens will help.

I might do 2 bars like this, but spaced 20" apart for the 180 Gal I have.

The reason for this is to direct the light away from the front and rear panel of the glass. Less algae, but also, better reflective light to the viewer, due to the angle of light bouncing off the plants/coral etc.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> You might consider placing lights front ot back, maybe 4-6 of those blocks like at RA forums, but with only 12 lamps per block and space them 14-12" apart and have them be say 4"-6" wide x 16" long. These 16" long strips will be front to back depth. Scaped out like this, it will give you nice even spread.
> 
> The other option is a bar the entire length of the tank (say 72" x 8")of them with the lens, and tilt each lens 10 degrees opposite of the adjacent to increrase spread. 40 degrees or 60 degree lens will help.
> 
> ...


I was planning on setting my pendants up like in this picture:









Is that what you meant Tom?

I already ordered my heatsinks, however they are about 5.8" by 12". It's too late to get them in 16" lengths.

Are you purposing that I mount them so the longest side of the sink is running front to back of the tank? You really think the spread would be nicer?

I was originally planning on having the long side run side to side on the tank. I have 40 degree optics for the XM-L which are for main lighting power, and 60 degree optics for the XP-G and XP-E which are more for colour rendering than anything else. The plan was 6-7 XM-L and 6 of the XP-G (3 RB + 3 NW) on each sink.

I'm pretty much flying blind so help is very appreciated. To spin the heatsinks 90 degrees is no biggie. I just thought the spread would be better if I had the sinks running lengthwise with the tank, but if you think perpendicular is better maybe I'll do that. I can always try both.

I'm trying to find a mounting bracket that would allow the sink to rotate and tilt in every direction. Any ideas for this?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I paid for my drivers and power supplies today and they should be on their way. I got two 24v/13A Meanwell power supplies and four drivers that have (4) 1000mA channels each. So in total I will have 16 possible controllable channels all at 1000mA.

The plan is to run 4 channels of 6-7 XM-L at up to 2000mA using two channels in parallel, controlled by the same PWM signal. There will also be 2 channels of XP-G neutral white and 2 channels of royal blue running at 1000mA. This should utilize three PCB boards and only one power supply, leaving a spare of each for another possible build.

If I use the arduino duemilanove I currently have I can only have 6 PWM signals, so all the NW and all the RB will only get two channels. If I decide to upgrade to a Mega instead I will separately control every string of 6.

Should be sweet...


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

All my orders have finally arrived. Took forever due to the Canada post strike and customs. 

Tonight I got to work and started marking out all my heat sinks so I can tap them this weekend. I also did a diode check on all the LEDs. All the XPGs lit up and most of the XML did as well except for a few. Turns out the +/- on a few of them is printed backwards. I'll have to keep that in mind for when I mount and wire them so I don't fry those LEDs. I have to say I'm a bit disappointed by that. At $7 a LED there shouldn't be problems like that, but I'll make due. 

Anywho, here are some pictures of my progress. Most of my pictures will be with my Iphone cause I won't remember to take pictures if I use my camera.

All my LEDs laid out. 24 XPG and 28 XML.









Thermal paste (they sent me 3 extra I think) and lenses. 60 degree for the XPG and 40 degree for the XML.









Here is my arduino with the LED screen on the left. I don't think I'll use the screen but I have it anyway. There is also the real time clock so I can set and have the arduino run properly.









These two photos are my Meanwell power supplies. Each can supply up to 13 amps, 24vdc. I will probably only need one for my build.


















Here is the heart and soul of this build. My drivers... thanks a bunch to Aaron who kindly helped me out with these. It was around $140 for a supply and two boards which will drive 48 XPG. You could probably squeeze 56 XML onto two boards. This is pretty close to the price of 4 meanwells except my mine will be dimmable in groups of 6/7 and they wont clip out at 15%. Aaron has informed me they should come on at around 2% when the Leds are still cold and dim all the way off once they are warmed up. The boards also have outputs for 12v fans and I can power my Arduino as well. There are analogue trim pots to adjust the max current to less than 1000mA and also pwm inputs for the dimming control. If I don't use a pwm signal I can bypass the pwm with a jumper so the lights simply come on if I choose to use a basic timer. Aaron thought of everything with these babies!


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Testing all my LEDs to make sure they work. The multimeter is the one ledgroupbuy.com sells. I actually got all the LEDs, heat sinks, thermal grease and lenses there. Can't beat the prices.











Marking out my heat sinks for the XMLs. You can see where my CW will be going. I wrote CW next to the cross hairs. The other six circled cross hairs around the perimeter of the sink will be royal blues and neutral whites. Obviously three of each isn't ideal so they will alternate in a triangle pattern. The next heat sink will be spun 180 degrees so the RB will zig zag all the way down the tank. I'm trying to get decent coverage.


















Next I had to mark out my holes that need to be tapped. I have it planned so all my screw will be down a channel between fins. The channels on each side of that channel will have all my wiring. I will drill more holes so I can feed the wire through and have most of it hidden. All the solder points and screws will be squared up. No zig zagging for me.

First I did up a template. I should have marked the holes for my wiring while I was at it but it didn't occur to me till I was done.

Lining up a star and punching holes in cardboard:









Test fit:









Double check:









Triple check:










Finally all four sinks are marked out. I got tired so I'll mark the wiring holes another day.











That's all I got done for now.


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## h2oaggie (Feb 28, 2011)

Wow, this is going to be one heck of a build. I look forward to seeing pictures of the completed fixture.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Justin, 

Thanks for the compliments, I'm glad that you like the drivers. I can't wait to see this system up and running, it's gonna be awesome.:biggrin:


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## cggorman (May 9, 2009)

Loving this!


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

This is a very interesting journal of a LED build. I like the idea of aligning all of the mounting holes, and wiring holes so they correspond with the deep grooves on the back of the heatsink. That makes for a lot of careful planning and probably a more difficult soldering job, but the results will be worth it.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

h2oaggie said:


> Wow, this is going to be one heck of a build. I look forward to seeing pictures of the completed fixture.


It's going to take a while, but hopefully I can get a little bit done each day. The hard part is finding all the little things you need, namely info. For example, I need to find out the proper bit and tap for predrilling holes for my mounting screws. I find the work easy but making up my mind is more difficult. 



O2surplus said:


> Justin,
> 
> Thanks for the compliments, I'm glad that you like the drivers. I can't wait to see this system up and running, it's gonna be awesome.:biggrin:


Thank you, for all the help and advice you've given me. This build will be way better thanks to you!


cggorman said:


> Loving this!


Thanks!



Hoppy said:


> This is a very interesting journal of a LED build. I like the idea of aligning all of the mounting holes, and wiring holes so they correspond with the deep grooves on the back of the heatsink. That makes for a lot of careful planning and probably a more difficult soldering job, but the results will be worth it.


I agree, it's going to be a pain, but I want to keep it clean looking as it might we visible with the Pendants mounted up so high. The hard part will be aligning every led so the wire goes up between the fins and back down to the proper terminal on the next led. The backwards labeling on the XML means I'll have to check everything as I go.


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## cggorman (May 9, 2009)

Mark the incorrect stars with a sharpie marker indicating the neg pad.

Slip a folded piece of construction paper between star and sink so you don't have to fight the heat.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

cggorman said:


> Mark the incorrect stars with a sharpie marker indicating the neg pad.
> 
> Slip a folded piece of construction paper between star and sink so you don't have to fight the heat.


Wow, aha. I can't believe that didn't occur to me. Duh.

I think I might have to fight the heat on one side of each led. Otherwise I wont be able to apply the artic silver once they are soldered. I guess I could leave enough slack to be able to spin the led enough to add it.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Justin,

Get your hands on a 40 watt or higher soldering iron w/ a blunt tip and use "real" solder instead of that "lead-free" crap. I've always soldered the stars pre-mounted to their heat sink and never had any trouble with them, as long as I had enough heat.:biggrin:


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Sounds good. I will be sure to get a decent iron.

So I went out after work today to try to find screws, nylon washers and a tap. Home Depot had the 4-40 3/8" screws I needed but no tap or washers. I headed to Rona next and they had the screws but you got less than half the screws for the same price as at HD. They had nylon washers too, but only for #6 screws and they were $0.09 each! There's no way I'm spending $10 on washers alone. They also only had 6-32 taps, not 4-40. What a pain. I think I'm going to end up just drilling holes a touch smaller then the 4-40 screws and just foregoing the tapping. I'll just screw them straight in. I still have to find the washers somewhere though. What a pain!


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## cggorman (May 9, 2009)

I looked all over locally and couldn't find any fiber washers for #4 screws. I made my own for the testing phase out of a gift card and a couple punches, but ended up ordering the ones for the final build from Newark. Of course, a lot of my other materials came from there, too, so shipping $3 worth of washers didn't give me heartburn.


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## h2oaggie (Feb 28, 2011)

> Get your hands on a 40 watt or higher soldering iron w/ a blunt tip and use "real" solder instead of that "lead-free" crap. I've always soldered the stars pre-mounted to their heat sink and never had any trouble with them, as long as I had enough heat.


GREAT advice. It took me a very long time to solder 12 LED's using a 30 watt iron. I had to snip off the pencil tip to get enough heat to melt the pre-tinned star connections.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I got some work done on the pendants tonight. Kill me now...

I spent the morning driving around to get parts. Managed to find my 4-40 screws, nylon standoffs that are close to what I wanted for washers only twice as thick, fuses + holders, terminal strips, drill bits and a tap kit + one extra tap. 

Drilled 104 pilot holes no problem. Drilled out 52 of them large enough for my wiring and then I started tapping. Tapping was the worst! I broke my first tap on my second hole. I couldn't get it out so I have to move the star over 2mm which sucks cause I had it laid out so nicely. Anyways, I got through that and the next two pendants done just fine with my next tap. I got about 2/3 done the last pendant before my tap broke. So now I need to move that star and go ge another tap. Canadian tire was the only place I found them and they only had the one, or else I would have bought more. 

It took me under an hour to drill the holes and then from about 5:30pk to 12:30pm to tap about 42 holes. Talk about brutal. I ended up watching the first season of breaking bad while I did it. Looooong night. 

I'll post some pics tomorrow of the progress, as well as a little video on how to tap holes if anyone is interested. Obviously my technique was wrong at first, Obut I managed to get 40 hole out of the second one. I think that's pretty good.


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

What kind of oil were you using for taping?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I used kerosene. It seemed to make a big difference.

A lot of people use WD-40 but I heard that it isn't ideal. I forget where, but I read that you use kerosene for drilling aluminum.


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

Cool, can't wait to see this come together.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Hah, yeah me too. I can't believe how long it took me to tap those hole. I thought it would take an hour or two... not six.

I need some input on a few things:

How do I polish up my heatsink again? I've heard you use acetone or 91%+ alcohol but I need to get some fine scratches out first.

I'm going to run the wiring up the wall in loom or some other cable management system but I need to have some sort of connector/ disconnect at the pendant level that I can disconnect to remove a pendant at a time. I wont have enough hands to take down 4 at the same time. Ideas?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

What do you guys think of this article? I took it straight from this page: http://www.overclockers.com/why-heatsink-polishing-might-be-a-bad-idea/


```
[B]Why Heatsink Polishing Might Be A Bad Idea[/B]
 							 						
 Posted by [URL="http://www.overclockers.com/author/admin/"]Simon Watkins[/URL] in Uncategorized 						
 				
 I used to be involved in the manufacture of Acousto-Optic devices for use
within high power laser cavities.  One of the products was called a Q
switch.  It was basically a piece of quartz with polished ends through  which 
the laser passed, and a piezoelectric transducer fitted on one  face parallel
 and in line with the laser that could cause diffraction in  the beam when it was energized.  

  Anyway to cut a long story short, the quartz block, because of optical losses and heating 
by the laser, not to mention high levels  of RF energy being fed into the transducer would get 
very hot – we were  pumping 50W CW of NdYag energy into the quartz, and the q-switching 
 effect would result in peak powers of several thousand watts – so hot  that the quartz would 
be destroyed in the laser cavity very quickly if  it wasn’t cooled.

  I remember being involved in a number of experiments during the  development of the product 
that investigated means to cool the device  efficiently.  In the end, water cooling blocks were 
used to sandwich the  quartz.  We experimented with improving the interface between the  
quartz and the aluminum blocks, and used exactly the same techniques  people are using today 
with H/S and CPU.  Heatsink compound, lapping  etc.  

  The aluminum water blocks were made optically flat using the same  lapping tools used to flatten
 the quartz.  We are talking extreme  flatness here – but [B]flatness being key rather more than 
smoothness[/B].

  Anyway, one thing we found was that [B]if we made the mating surface of the aluminum block
 too smooth, we lost cooling efficiency[/B] – similarly if it was too coarse.  To the extent that if
 we polished the surface, [B]we  got significantly worse performance than when the heatsink surface 
was  matte after lapping with, say, 400-600 grade carborundum.[/B]  

  Our conclusions were that the micro pits and valleys left behind after  finishing with coarser grade 
carborundum left micro cavities within  which the heatsink compound could fill, but the micro peaks
 of the  aluminium would provide good physical contact to the quartz when the  whole assembly was
 squeezed together under pressure; the micro peaks  would flatten slightly providing millions of micro 
plateaus of contact  surface.

  On the polished blocks, there was nowhere for the heatsink compound to go, other than out the 
sides of course, but you could never exert sufficient pressure to squeeze ALL the heatsink compound 
out, so you got poor quality thermal transfer through the HS compound sandwich. Whereas on the 
rougher surfaced blocks, given a sensibly thin  application of heatsink compound, there would be a very 
high proportion  of aluminium making contact with the quartz and any pits would be taken  care of by 
the HS compound.  If we went too coarse, there was too little  of the aluminum in direct contact with 
the quartz and temperatures  worsened again.

  We found the results hard to believe at first, as we all believed somewhat blindly that the polished 
surface would be best, yet the flat surfaced,  but coarser finished heatsinks outperformed the polished 
ones  significantly. Basically with a polished sink, you’ll never put a thin enough coat of H/S
compound on it for it all to be expelled, given the relatively limited pressure you can apply.   So what is 
key to achieving optimum thermal conductivity is a high aluminium to CPU contact – micropeaks and perfect
flatness will ensure that you achieve that.  [B]Try using only up to 600 paper on your heatsinks, no finer.[/B]
  The manufacturers are possibly aware of this fact as well.  Take an FOP38 heatsink for instance.  Its 
base is very flat (I measured mine with an  optical flat), but pretty coarse (too coarse I think).  Now 
GlobalWin is  perfectly capable of machining the thing somewhat smoother – the sides  of the heatsink 
are finished to a much finer finish than the base.  

  I suspect the reason for their reasonably coarse base finish is to  accommodate the somewhat viscous 
phase change material, as recommended  by AMD.  So lapping the heatsink to a finer degree and using 
heatsink  compound instead will help in reducing temps to a degree (groan). Additionally, the somewhat 
more viscous nature of Arctic Silver will  also help with a coarsely finished interface, because it has a lower  
thermal resistance than silicon HS compound – that is, IF they are both  applied so they are forming the
 filling of a sandwich! In a more professional application of the heatsink compound, ideally you  need a 
less viscous substance so that maximal metal to CPU contact can  occur.  If you can’t achieve that 
because you are making a compound  sandwich, you will never get optimum temps. Anyway, take that info 
for what it cost you.  I just thought it may be of interest, and provoke some discussion.
```


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

*Woot*

All finished tapping the sink. Here are some pics to show what I did.

Supplies, tools:

My landlord had a drill press which made things pretty simple. If I had to use a drill it would have been possible, but much less accurate and clean.









I've heard that kerosene is a better lubricant for drilling aluminum. I've also heard of WD-40 working if you are in a pinch. Don't use the syringe though... it melted the rubber on the plunger... long story short, the body of the syringe is now in the bottom of the kerosene container.










The 3/32" bit is for my holes to be tapped and the 3/16 bit is for my hole to feed wire through. I also used a 1/4" bit to dill counter sinks at each end of the wire's hole to clean up the edge and flair it so there will be less pressure on the wire's insulation. It kinda looks neat too.










I bought the tap kit because the handle alone was the exact same price. I also went through two taps before finishing the job with the third.










Just a close up of the tap info. I've heard that 6-32 screws will fit the stars as well, but you would be pushing it. You wouldn't have any play room and the nylon washers might overlap the pads (terminals) on the star.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

This isn't quite the finished product. Just after I got this far I used the 1/4" bit to ream out the 3/16" hole. There were a lot of burrs between the fins which just wouldn't do. I should have done that before I tapped the holes because shaving may have gotten in there. Too late now.











And since I broke two taps I had to move two stars over about 2mm which totally ruins everything. It was going to line up so nice too. I tried my best to get out the tap but once it broke the tips were just too brittle to grab. I only had about .5mm sicking out each side of the heat sink so I just left them. I tried drilling them out which was pretty futile. Taps are made to do the drilling so no such luck with that.











I'm pretty confident that if I really took my time I could have tapped every hole with one tap, but it took me about 7 hours total. Just the tapping. My patience was tested by the end of it and in retrospect, I should have paid a machine shop to do it. I would've charged myself nearly $300 for the time. However, in the end I'm pretty happy with the result and I will do it again on my next build. It's just so clean looking and I wont have epoxy all over my heat sink. Or wires!


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

7 hour marathon just tapping heat sinks! You're either really patient or a glutton for punishment.(jk) The finished product is going to look really,really nice. Nice work Justin.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Did some more this weekend. I was looking for a soldering station and while I was browsing the Wellers the shop worker recommended a Hekko. It was the same price but had a few features I like such as temp readings in both ferinheit and celcius. He also said he found it doesn't drop it's temp like the Wellers do. I can't comment because I have no experience with either. All I know is the Hekko worked well for me. I set the temp to around 850F because 750F wasn't quite hot enough.










I pre ran all my wiring so I didn't waste any and I could think about my layout. I wanted all the connections to be somewhat close together so the harness wouldn't need to split all over the place. I'm aiming to keep everything clean. The wiring jumping fins looks messy, but I won't be seen when I'm done.










Here is the sink all wired and soldered up. I wish I could have ran the wire into the LEDs differently, but I didn't have as much room as I thought I would and I had to make due. I didn't want any shorts and the stars aren't very forgiving.




















Here you can see the wiring harness I quickly did up. Each wire will go into a disconnect for easy pendant removal. I labelled each wire within the fins with a white (CW), yellow (NW) or blue (RB) piece of heat shrink for identification. Once the wires come out of the bundle they are marked with the string colour and a red (+) or grey (-) piece of heat shrink for easy hookup.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I fired it up when I went back inside, just for fun. Before I did this I took a few precautions. First I went through and double checked all my wiring and +/- terminals. If you have one led backwards you could blow through the junction, destroying it. I also checked for each LED with the diode check to insure I didn't ruin any while soldering and also in insure the terminals were marked correctly (a few where backwards from the factory) and finally I check to make sure there wasn't any continuity between any LED terminal and the heat sink. I forgot about it at the time, but I will be grounding each sink later just in case. 


















Here I dialed back the CW and maxed the NW and RB at 1000mA










Here I did the opposite. These CW are at 1000mA, half of what I'm planning.









Here's a bit of the blending the fixture is producing. The fixture is on my bed and my arm is close to the 7' ceiling.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Now these pics are just to show some example of the colour and power of this baby. I did have to string together the NW and RB as I only have three per pendant and I wanted to properly load the string. In the first pic of only the RB and NW and it's really blue. 










This next one is the CW turned up with RB + NW turned down.










Next we have the fixture dimmed and then the fixture full blast. It's about midnight and the lights are off with a pitch black room to start.




















My iphone messes with the contrast a bit in the photos, but it's not a terrible representation of what I saw.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Justin,

Awesome work so far! I can't wait to see this system running over your tank. How do you like those drivers- now that you've had a chance to fire them up? From what I can see in the photos, it looks like you'll be able to dial in the color temp to anywhere you want. Couple that with the Arduino and this system is gonna be nuts!:icon_surp


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

O2surplus said:


> Justin,
> 
> Awesome work so far! I can't wait to see this system running over your tank. How do you like those drivers- now that you've had a chance to fire them up? From what I can see in the photos, it looks like you'll be able to dial in the color temp to anywhere you want. Couple that with the Arduino and this system is gonna be nuts!:icon_surp


Thanks Aaron. I'm pumped. I need to get moving on the other three pendants, but they are very time consuming. I only really get anything done on the weekends.

The drivers are awesome. Once I have all four pendants hanging the colour should be easy to fine tune. So far I am pretty impressed with the colour of the LEDs I got. The CW look like they have a nice colour to them, the royal blue are nice and blue and the NW have just enough yellow to work for colour adjustment. I've only tested one board so far but it worked seamlessly. 

I've played with the Arduino a bit but I need to get the RTC hooked up before I can really do anything.


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## nickc (Aug 12, 2011)

Awesome fixture build, being able to dim for sunrise/set is an awesome feature to have. 

One thing to think about is adding a splash shield using standoffs or if your comfortable with acrylic make an enclosure box out of black for each pendant. 

Will be following to see how the arduino works out, I was super close to going the same route but went for a pre-done fixture.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I'm torn on whether or not to add the splash guard. The fixtures will be pretty high up so it might be a waste. I was planning standoffs but I forgot to drill the holes before I got to work soldering. If I add the guard now it will slide into the fixture. 

I scored a piece of 1/4" white acrylic that's 12"x72" long to build enclosures. I will use wood stained blonde or whitewashed or white buckboard to skin the stand. I think it would look pretty slick if it all looks like an apple product.


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## nickc (Aug 12, 2011)

Do you notice any color banding at the distances your planning to run the fixture at? 
This was the one visual issue I had with DIY fixtures and spacing of LED's/use of optics is that shadows cast were multi color and slight surface agitation was enough to give a faint disco effect at the bottom of the tank.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Yeah, I did. I'm not sure if I will have a issues or not. 










The banding is actually pretty bad. I'm hoping the multiple pendants will help. The two outside pendants will be slightly angled towards the middle while the two center pendants will be pulled a few inches forward and angled a bit towards the back on the tank. Maybe this will help fade out the shadows.


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## nickc (Aug 12, 2011)

Oh wow, you may have issues with multi colored shadows. If you have any type of surface agitation/slight ripple you are going to have a disco effect(this effect drives me crazy personally), if you can setup a 10 gal with some cheap sand or something to see what its going to look like with the lights hanging at the intended height it would be worthwhile. 

I had a DIY led test fixture that I played with spacing and optics, was never happy with the color banding produced by optics. 

Maybe try moving all the LED's as close as possible if it does turn out to be an issue(if its not too late). The diodes in my fixture are about 1/4" center to center. Even with out optics and the clustering the fixture can put out 260+ par in the bottom corner of a 24" wide 24" deep tank when cranked to 100% this is about the same as a 400w 10000k halide but uses 1/3rd the power or less. 

click the link in my signature for a picture of the tank with the LED's on it, you can see the shadows are soft and there isn't any color banding in the shadows. The effect looks in-between T5 and halide lighting in person.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Yeah.... I should have done some testing before hand. Everything is drilled and tapped so it's not going to change. 

I put wider optics on the rb/nw so the light spread would be better. I might have to pull them. This is all an experiment for me, so I'll have to wait and see what happens.

I wont have a lot of surface ripple. I usually have the surface close to glass and all the current below.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Any more progress? updates?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Yep, I got a bit done. I finished 90% of the soldering, I just have to finish the wiring harness. I'm leaving that until I decide on my enclosure design. Something fantastic happened at work the other day, and my design is once again undecided. 

Originally I was going to copy this fixture, but do four pendants with the same look instead of one.










Then because fabricating them would be a pain with my limited resources, and four would be a pain to hang with cable from EMT (can't use the rented ceiling) I was thinking straight up copying the design would be ideal. I already have all the acrylic. I scored it free from my local shop a few weeks ago.

Then my boss had the guys demo a bunch of lighting and he said I could pillage the garbage before it went out the door. I scored 44... yes 44 polished aluminum reflectors from t5 fixtures, and these two housings...


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

With a bit of aluminum angle I can make brackets to hold the heat sinks and cap the ends at the same time. There are slots that are designed to be screwed into, so the build would be easy as pie.

My issue is that I need a housing that is five feet long at minimum. So I can either cut these down into pendant size or down to three feet each and find a way to join them without them looking terrible.

I need ideas...


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

Looks GREAT!

The color shadows won't be bad at all over the tank unless you want to get seriously nitpicky about it. 

You should see what my wall looks like, from where the light comes from the wood pendant that holds my LEDs. I have 4200K, 5500K, 6500K, 15,000K, royal blue, cyan, and red. In ONE pendant (3 Meanwell strings). I only did this because I had these LEDs laying around. The color shadows on the wall are insane, but the tank itself looks just fine.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

redfishsc said:


> Looks GREAT!
> 
> The color shadows won't be bad at all over the tank unless you want to get seriously nitpicky about it.
> 
> You should see what my wall looks like, from where the light comes from the wood pendant that holds my LEDs. I have 4200K, 5500K, 6500K, 15,000K, royal blue, cyan, and red. In ONE pendant (3 Meanwell strings). I only did this because I had these LEDs laying around. The color shadows on the wall are insane, but the tank itself looks just fine.


Oh man, that makes me pretty happy. I noticed from other people's pictures that you can clearly see the light beams on the wall, but I wasn't sure if mine would look bad with the blue in there.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I found two x eight foot housings at work today and brought them home. I also scored some *********** cable and the adjustable hanging hardware the fixtures used. Now I can go one piece and avoid having to join two sections.

I really wanted the pendants, but thinking about it, it doesn't fit into the philosophy of my whole build. I want it to look very clean and simple, yet be sophisticated. I feel like the four pendants and all the wiring will be too busy. Now I can have a simple ADA style stand in white with the eurobraced tank and the white fixture hanging above.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

So you're gonna cut the 8' down to 6'? That should be a lot easier and look much better than trying to rejoin two 3' into 1 unit. I think your on the right track- housing all your components together in one long enclosure will make wiring and cooling everything much easier. Are you gonna try to squeeze your power supply in there too?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

O2surplus said:


> So you're gonna cut the 8' down to 6'? That should be a lot easier and look much better than trying to rejoin two 3' into 1 unit. I think your on the right track- housing all your components together in one long enclosure will make wiring and cooling everything much easier. Are you gonna try to squeeze your power supply in there too?


Yeah, I'm going to cut it down. My only option for joining two pieces was brazing, and I don't know how strong that kind of joint is so I would rather not. It'll be simple enough to add fans now as I can cut out holes in the housing. I don't have plants to put everything in the fixture, but now that you mention it, I may be able to put all the drivers inside it. I will have a 5" gap between all the heatsinks so it may be enough space. I don't want to mount them above the sinks themselves because space is very limited there and I'm sure the area will be quite warm. Either way the power supply will be kept below the stand.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I have a few videos to share. The first two show my method for tapping heatsinks, the last is just one I did while I was testing all the components of my build. I have a few kinks and issues to work out, but in general it's going pretty good.

Excuse my spaciness in the last video, I was kinda out of it. I also apologize for the fingers in the frames.

How to tap part 1

How to tap part 2


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Leds fired up!


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I'm going to try to emulate this chart for my sunrise and sunset. I want the right panels so fire up first and continue to the left. At night the right panels will shut off first and continue to the leftmost panel. The nw will be first an last on/off. The royal blue will probably be the moonlights, though very dim. If it is too blue I'll mix in some nw.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Justin
Thanks for posting the videos. I may be able to offer some help,I think you may be able to get the drivers to run a bit cooler if you were to attach a small heat sink to them. I have a smaller version of the same board design with a CPU heat sink attached, and they never clip due to overheating. I used a small amount of arctic silver thermal epoxy applied to the vias under each chip to attach the driver board to the sink.
Those same boards are running full tilt in my BridgeLux retrofit fixture right now. It's been running an impromptu SPS "growth test" at a LFS for the last six weeks. The leds are running at 2 amps each and nothings failed or caught fire yet.... so I think it's gonna continue working for a long time. The heat sink mod should help with your situation, and allow you to run your XML's to 2 amps without issue.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Do you think air moving past them would help? When they are mounted in the fixture air will rush past them as the fan pulls the warm air from the housing. I will need a way to mount the boards inside the housing, so maybe I can use a piece of aluminum bar that will act both as a sink, and something to mount to the fixture.

I also think the boards simply need to supply too much voltage when the xml are at 2000mA. The supply needs to put out about 26v at that current. Do you think that is okay?


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

The aluminum mounting bar and some air flow will help. I think most of the extra heat is coming from the voltage imbalance between the two led types. Have you tried running both power supplies with 1 type of led dedicated to each? That will ultimately solve the problem, as each supply can be adjusted for the optimum voltage drop across the driver ic's.

I've been running my BridgeLux arrays at 26 volts for a while now and the CAT4101's haven't malfunctioned.......yet. I'm going to let them continue to run that way until I can replace the drivers with a newer design that I've recently finished. I still have to order the boards and build a few to see if they perform to the specs that I have set.
They're supposed to drive 2 amps with a 27 volt input. If they work as planned I'll share the board files and parts BOM with you as they would be perfect for your XMLs.The driver uses the LM3409 ic that has been talked about over on that "S*** Water" forum that we both visit.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Okay, but how are you supplying the 27v? These power supplies are only rated at 24v. Are you going to use something different than the meanwells? For future build I might have to get you to build me some more parts if your up for it. Do you think the outputs on the meanwells can be hooked up in series to put out 48v?

Haha, S*** water. I have to say, the knowledge base over there is huge. I like to drag everything back here.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

The power supplies you have now can be cranked up to 27 volts. You just have to keep in mind that they're rated for 320 watts, so 11- 12 amps may be all you'll be able to get rather than the rated 13.
I still have to build the first few examples to see how well they'll work, but I'll be sure to keep you posted with the results.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Okay, cool. It must be the chips that are limiting me right now then. I might have to swap out some of my boards for your new design down the road. I can use the ones I have on other builds.

Do you mind sharing how much it is to have the pcb boards made up? Is it hard to make your own design?


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

jcgd said:


> Okay, cool. It must be the chips that are limiting me right now then. I might have to swap out some of my boards for your new design down the road. I can use the ones I have on other builds.
> 
> Do you mind sharing how much it is to have the pcb boards made up? Is it hard to make your own design?


I get the boards manufactured by Seeed studio (Services : Seeed Studio Bazaar, Boost ideas, extend the reach ) . The cost for the boards varies depending on their size. They have a fee table for each size with the largest being the most expensive. The minimum quantity for each order is 10 boards. If I remember correctly, I paid about $4 apiece,including shipping for a boards you have now.
Creating the design for the boards can be done with the EAGLE software that is available for free online. You can find and download the software from here-Downloads | Get The Latest Version of EAGLE | CadSoft EAGLE | It takes a little time to learn the software, but it's fairly intuitive for people with some training in electronics theory.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Started working on the fixture again today. I didn't want to splurge for metal blade so I just used an old carbide tipped blade that was worn anyway. It worked like a charm. 










A dry fit to see how everything fit. 










A mock up of the light hanger with another guys 6' fixture. It will only be attached to one end of the stand with a single support so that I can use the tank as a peninsula if I want to in the future. 

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx291/GRIZZtheWELDER/bfcf601a.jpg 

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx291/GRIZZtheWELDER/ccc9bfc0.jpg


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Oh WOW! That fixture looks really nice. Great Job! You hadn't posted in so long I was beginning to think that you must have frozen solid during the Winter, and I'd have to wait for the Spring thaw for you to start posting on this project again. Nice to see Ya back!


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Yeah, I kinda got overwhelmed with all the fish crap. It was getting hoarder like so I'be been clearing out everything I don't need. Rearranging the house... And battling a worm outbreak that wiped out a lot of livestock.

It's been a fairly warm winter this year but the garage isn't heated so it's uncomfortable to be out there. Today I just dealt with it while I cut the fixture and cross supports. I still have a lot to do to actually hold everything together. I need to fabricate some acrylic mounts for the drivers and arduino. I wanted to house them under the stand but with 12 different channels it's simply too much wire. I will still need two cords to the fixture this way.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

My hanger. Still need to paint it white. Maybe... might just leave it black.


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## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

subscribed


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Well thanks! What do you think of the build so far?
...

The fixture housing was powder coated and has chips here and there from handling. Before I paint it again I'm going to try a trick with super glue and baking soda that is supposed to work well as a filler to fill the holes where the paint chipped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjLptQxvQl8


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## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

I like it alot. did you decide to go white on your light hanger? Personally i think the black looks nice. im a black and silver kinda girl tho... Your wood is killer and will look awesome in it once its all filled. I cant wait to see the final product.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I think I will. The black will probably stick out against the white stand and fixture. Black looks nice but I think on something this size it could be a little much. Even the white might be overkill, I'll have to see once everything is painted. I might try to find a way to incorporate some silver accents. I kinda like white and aluminum.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)




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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

One more, hardcore teaster...


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Lookin' Good! How far away from the leds are you mounting the power supplies? I ask because there will be a certain amount of voltage drop that you'll have to take into consideration. It shouldn't matter much though, you can always crank up the voltage if needed. Just remember to adjust the voltage reading *at the drivers* to .5-.8 volt over your led string voltage and you'll be all set.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I think it'll be about 12-13 feet of #18awg wire either way, so about 25 feet total. Hopefully the drop isn't too bad. I'm already pushing it with the 7 XML in series. I don't think I'm going to be able to get the current much over 1500mA so hopefully I have enough light. I think the voltage drop on the xml loop will be about 3v but that's using quick google search numbers. 

3.1v x 7 + 3 = 24.7v ... ouch. Hopefully I can squeek out some decent current.

I still need to mount my optics somehow. I don't want to use epoxy in case I want to change them out, but hot glue really doesn't make them stay on well. After I figure that out I'm going to build a little enclosure of some sort to house the power supplies and drivers.

I'm curious if I'll need a fan for active cooling the heatsinks. Right now I have an open space and a spare circuit if I need to add it, but it's being left out for now.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

You're mounting the drivers in the fixture right? Don't forget that they each have a 12 volt regulator that can be used to power cooling fans ect... That would be the simplest way to it, with the least number of wires.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I was going to originally, but space was tight and I would have had to make some strange brackets that would have the drivers sticking out. So I am going to mount them remotely now. Do you see issues with this? I have everything wired and it woked out quite well. In the pics a few posts back you can see all the finished wiring, wire harnesses and the cable entry into the fixture. 

I have ten pairs running to the fixture, 8 channels, 1 spare and 2 for grounds.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

As long as the CAT4101's can reach a full 1 amp of output while staying under the 25 volt maximum, everything should be fine. If not, you may have to shorten the wires between the drivers and leds,or upgrade the wiring to the next larger gauge. You'll have to do some voltage checks to be sure though. But then again - who knows? You may already have more lighting power than you need right now and you'll end up lowering the current output to compensate? Problem solved, and just enjoy your new light!


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Yeah, at this point I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I'm not going to be changing anything so I'll just cross my fingers.

Got started on a project box for the drivers and stuff. I don't have saws and stuff that are appropriate for acrylic so I bend a scrap I had to form the sides and then used a router to cut the lid and bottom. It's going to be a weird setup, but it should get the job done.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Getting there with the project. I finished my little acrylic project box and I'm starting to do the wiring. There will be a lot of wiring and I've never done wire management in something this small and busy. Whatever... at this point my brain is hurting pretty bad and I just want to get this baby going. I think all I need at this point is three female cord ends.

If anyone is wondering why this thing is so complex looking, it really isn't. It's just busy. Three power supplies feed three driver boards. One board has all four xpg channels and is the "colour rendering" board. Two neutral white shrings and two royal blue. One of the remaining boards controls the XML on the left two panels, the last board controls the right two panels. From there a wire pair heads out to the panels, the positives hitting a fuse on the way out for LED and wiring protection.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

A solder got knocked off a royal blue at some point, but I had the rest fired up tonight. Just a few pics with only the XML on. You might be able to spot how some of the cool whites are more white while some others are pretty yellowish. The panel one from the left is almost entirely on the yellow end of the scale. Kinda shows the variation in LED colour even within the same bin.

I haven't tested the currents through the strings yet but the dimmer is dialed about to about 25% of max and I haven't put optics on yet. I want to find a par meter and to some testing before I add the optics.

I still need to put the end caps on the fixture to finish it off, resolder that one star and strap the cords away neatly. I was gonna leave the "ballast" outside the stand but the three fans on the power supplies are louder than I'd like so I might just tuck it away.

I'm hoping to get a few Tycoon controllers off O2Surplus that have LCD screen and push buttons that I will mount in a little box and attach it remotely to the light stand with Velcro. That way I can play with it with settings without opening up the box. My arduino isn't a cleanly put together as I'd like and I'd prefer to have the option of making adjustments on a whim. I'm just running out of patience and really have no interest in figuring out the controller. Sometimes it's just easier to get someone who has the knowledge and expertise to do things for you.


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## wastedtime (Oct 27, 2011)

Great build. Thanks for the detailed pictures and explanations. The acrylic box looks really nice too


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

wastedtime said:


> Great build. Thanks for the detailed pictures and explanations. The acrylic box looks really nice too


Thanks. I personally love having pics as they usually say way more than words. And I like the pics to be self expanatory so I try to get the little details. Some people wouldn't even know what a tap is for example so I like to show the tools and the results.

Pretty much have the light finished. I installed the optics and re-soldered the star that came loose as well as put the end caps on. All I need is the controllers to finish up but the light it functional with timers as it is. I just don't have fancy features.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Reserved


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Reserved


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

Looks great!


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

That looks really nice! ( Your LED Controllers are under construction )


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Thanks Aaron. 

See guys? That's how you DIY. Get someone else to build it!


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

TA DA!

I'm going to send these to you without any buttons soldered to the PCB. That will allow you some mounting flex-ability, as you'll be able to mount the controllers/LCD in one place with the buttons in an other.

Just when you thought YOU where done with DIY!:thumbsup:


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Have the XML at about 1500mA with 40 degree optics. 
Xpg at around 1000mA with 60 degree optics. 
Fixture about 20" off the tank, 40" off substrate. 
PREPARE TO HAVE MIND BLOWN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYymPTLxZ0I&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Justin- 
Holy Crap- that's a beautiful tank, simply Epic. I can't wait to see it after it's "grown in" a bit. (Jeez- I wish I still had the time to maintain an aquascape like that!) I had to laugh out loud when I heard your comments about growing SPS. Are you going to dial down the current a bit on the leds to reduce the PAR levels? Have you got the controllers up and running yet? You'll have to post another video showing the sunrise/sunset effects when you're done. That wold look really cool.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Nice looking tank btw. Are those the type of LEDs,current you'd find over a reef tank?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

O2surplus said:


> Justin-
> Holy Crap- that's a beautiful tank, simply Epic. I can't wait to see it after it's "grown in" a bit. (Jeez- I wish I still had the time to maintain an aquascape like that!) I had to laugh out loud when I heard your comments about growing SPS. Are you going to dial down the current a bit on the leds to reduce the PAR levels? Have you got the controllers up and running yet? You'll have to post another video showing the sunrise/sunset effects when you're done. That wold look really cool.


Thanks Aaron. I really appreciate the compliment. Hopefully all these plants take well. I have pretty hard water so some of them might not do so well. We will see though, I've seen some growth already on a few of my favourites. 

Don't have the controllers running yet, that's my next project. I really wanted the par meter so I could figure out what I was running. This fixture waaay outstripped my expectations, though now that I think about it, I kind of just convinced myself I wouldn't have the levels I original though I did. I think it's awesome that I have that much light at the substrate and on top of that, the fixture is up super high. I have 20" of room for possible emmersed growth so I'm 40" off the substrate, and I still have that much light! 

Too much light in fact, for my goals, so I'm going to dial it back a bit. I don't want to have issues with co2. I know how to use co2, and have it be effective without having to work at it, but I am not experienced enough to crank it with fish and be able to walk that rope. So I think I will back off to around 60-70 at the substrate. I believe that you can grow most plants at 40-50umol and I want high light, plus a bit. At least for the first few months. If it's too much I'll keep dropping it until the growth is acceptable to me, or the plants begin to suffer. I have a hunch that lighting will not be an issue, spectrum or intensity. This thing packs a punch, and I think the look of the tank is just beautiful. The colour of the led light is very clear. It's hard to explain. It's like a nice, clear summer day. No noticeable blue, no noticeable yellow, just a nice white. The plants are looking good, lots of colour so far, but it's too early to know. The bit of new growth I am having looks like rusty red on the Rotala macrandra and and a nice pink, like apple blossoms, on the Ammania Gracillis. No clue what they are supposed to look like, but so far it's pretty. And that's the point.

One more thing I want to add to accompany the controllers, is an ultrasonic fogger. I'll hide it behind some wood and turn it on with the dim light in the morning, like dew. Just enough to wet any immersed growth, such as (hopefully) the ferns. It'll just come on as neutral whites are ramping up for the sunrise.



mistergreen said:


> Nice looking tank btw. Are those the type of LEDs,current you'd find over a reef tank?


Well, most of the builds I see are all XPG (or earlier models) and lots of em. They seem to think that as many as 50+ leds over a 90 gallon is needed. I think they are way overbuilding, just like people do stands, and I've done my light. The idea is that colour blending needs to be good, so lots of leds in any area. They usually run at 1000mA or less, but most dial that back anyway, because the fixtures are just too bright for the corals. They are getting anywhere from 350-600 at the top down to 110 or so on the sand. So I decided to do something different. I used less, more powerful XML so I could have 28 instead of 80. I drive them at twice the current (or a the same now that I know) and raise the fixture high with tight optics. The only real issue now is heat, solved with a fan. My fixture is pretty much enclosed and runs hot with over 1000mA current. 

So my result (half luck) is nearly no spot lighting, save for one streak I can find on the right side, a little less shimmer, and lots of room over the tank. Reef tanks can be too busy with the shimmer due to so many light sources. 

The main result though, is more uniform par from top to bottom. The par levels right now drop from 1800umol or so to 170 at the substrate. 10X less. But in my tank, from the surface to the substrate the levels go from 330 to 170. Only 2x more at the surface. Huuuge difference. But if I had the light right over the tank, but the leds dimmed, I will have a much larger difference. This was 100% Hoppy's idea. He's been saying it all along, and it works great. You just need the power, and that doesn't need current, it needs tight optics. 

I also measured a 18watt par38 bulb that put out around 220umol at 24". Doing it again I would use a few par 38 with dimmers (or an analog controller?) hung as pendants. A little height and your set, light a 180 gallon with LED for $360 and two hours.

If I ever DIY again, I'll be doing clusters of XML on pendants hung very high. Pretty much a fake sun. I was going to do four pendants with this tank, and if my fixture hadn't worked out so well, I would have rather gone with the pendants. Without this aluminum housing my build wouldn't look half as tidy.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Justin-

Have you got a pressurized CO2 system on your tank? If you do and have it paired with a controller, you shouldn't have any worries about "gassing" your fish. I've been running such a system on my tank(s) for the last 12 years and have never had any losses due to overdosing. I think the trick is to provide just enough surface agitation to cause the CO2 to be driven off at a fairly constant rate.The surface agitation will cause any remaining CO2 to off gas fairly quickly after the lights go off. I normally adjust the injection rate in the morning after every large water change. I wait the first night for the Ph to stabilize to it's normal level and then begin adding CO2 from there. I've seen, from my experience, that my fish don't even flinch at 1 point drop in Ph as long as the plants are producing adequate oxygen. I normally dial back the injection rate just enough to maintain "pearling" over the course of the lighting period. Hence my screen name, as I like my tanks to have an "O2Surplus"


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I am running a pressurized system. It's blasting right now and it feeds into the return pump. I may drill a hole into my closed loop and add a connector so I can run it through the loop instead because the outlets are much lower in the tank. The pumps chop the bubbles into small mist that floats all around the tank. 

I usually shoot for a 1ph drop too (3ppm x 10 for 30ppm) and find it to be sufficient, but I've always had much less light. I don't really know how much co2 I'd need for my current lighting, maybe it would be fine. I have a ph controller, but I find I drifts as my AS and the limestone in the rocks buffer against each other. I prefer to instead run the co2 by bubbles per second (just relative, not for measurement) and monitor the ph. If it drops too drastically I have the controller cut the co2. So on/off without control, and off if the ph gets too low.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

With my current setup the fixture draws 290 watts. The XML at 200 watts and the xpg at 90 watts. I'll take some voltage and current readings soon.


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm very confident that my 12 XML array will work very well for my 90 long now.

Thanks for sharing!


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I swapped out 12 XML CW for WW. Much more yellow but hopefully the reds start to pop now. Next I will make a accessory bar to add the Ocean Coral Whites from Milad at LEDgroupbuy.com to see if it makes any difference. I will leave one half of the tank without the OCW so I can do a site by side comparison.





































I need to get a slim and quiet fan to add in. I have the 12v to run it in the fixture, just need the fan. I'm also going to recess the covers a bit more to clean up the edges and paint it white. It's just the original aluminum reflectors flipped upside down and holes drilled. It's blocking a smidge of the light right now from each LED, but that should fix itself after I recess the cover another 3-4mm.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Looks good Justin. Hopefully the new leds will do the trick for ya. I swear that every time I look at your tank, I want to de-rim and eurobrace my 225 to get that "open top" look like you've got. That tank of yours is just stunning to look at.


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## Algae Beater (Jun 3, 2011)

looks great!! 

the WW LEDs have a better CRI and their ability to bring out reds is superb. You made the right choice!


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