# New to Planted: 10 gal dosing? Advice?



## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

I have a 10 gallon planted tank that's leaking. So, before I begin dosing I need take apart my set-up and replant in a different empty 10 gal tank I have on hand.

All seems to be working well, but I'd like to begin a dosing routine. Based on the information below, does anyone have any recommendations? I plan to purchase products from Greg Watts but don't have a clue where to begin.

This tank is located at work -so nothing happens to it on Saturdays and Sundays.

All input is appreciated! roud: 


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10g (L20" x W10" x H12") 

1” layer of peat moss, 3" of flourite with light gravel topping (75/25)

2 WPG by two 10W Pink screw-in Mini Compact fluorescent bulbs by colormax, in original incandescent light hood, timed for 11 hours daily (Approx. 6500k equivalent light output of 50 watts)

Hagen Aquaclear-mini/20 HOB with foam sponge and 2 Biomax Inserts to expand biological capacity. I keep water level high so HOB filter flow not splashing and reducing the C02

DIY C02 DEVICE USING POP BOTTLE: Diffusion through filter intake using in-line check valve. Remixing formula every 2 weeks by funnelling 2 cups of sugar, 1/2 teaspoon of yeast, and 1 teaspoon of baking soda. The baking soda buffers the pH and keep the reaction rate more steady. Bubbler on timer for night time to drive off residual C02

50W heater with temperature of 81° F 

Flora: Anubias barteri var. nana, Cryptocoryne wendtii "brown", Cryptocoryne wendtii "green", Cryptocoryne x willisii, Microsorum pteropus 

Fauna: 
5 gro-lite tetras 
4 neon tetras 
2 panda cory’s 
1 Otto Dwarf Sucker 

Flourish fertilizer tabs deep into the substrate and dosing water with Hagen’s Plant Gro (NPK 0.6-0.3-2.4). 

Ammonia = 0.5
N03 = 5ppm.
kH = 90 ppm 
pH = 6.2
C02 = 94.6 (they say this number is inaccurate and caused by the peat moss)


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## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

A Typical Dosing Routine
1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 Potassium Nitrate 3-4x a week (every other day)
1/16th-1/32nd teaspoon of KH2PO4 Mono Potassium Phosophate 3-4x a week (every other day)
Traces added on off days as the macro nutrients, so 3x a week, 5mls each time. 
SeaChem Equilibrium 1/8 teaspoon after water change.


So the aquarist dose only 3 things really, KNO3, KH2PO4 on the day of the water change then every other day there after, traces of the off day till the next week rolls around. Do a 50-70% water change, dose the macro nutrients back, add the traces the following day and repeat. You can slowly back off this amount till you notice plant growth differences to tailor your individual tank’s need, but all you will do is waste some macros and traces by adding more than the plant needs. You should give each change in your routine about 3 weeks before making another change. This will take time but is worth the time spent. It will not cause algae unless you over look something, namely CO2 or under dosing KNO3 which both of these account for about 95% of all algae issues. If you focus on the plant’s needs, the algae will no longer grow. I hope this helps and ends much frustration for the aquatic gardener so then aquarist may focus on aquascaping and growing plants rather than asking how to kill algae. The aquarist does not have to stick with merely a weekly routine with the water changes or accept 50% as their volumes. This will level off the dosing at 2x the dosed amount so that nothing will ever be overdosed beyond 2x the target range.


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## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

BTW, Nice looking tomato clown you've got there. Regards,


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

THANK YOU so very much!!! This is awesome! roud:


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## stcyrwm (Sep 1, 2005)

actioncia said:


> A Typical Dosing Routine
> 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 Potassium Nitrate 3-4x a week (every other day)
> 1/16th-1/32nd teaspoon of KH2PO4 Mono Potassium Phosophate 3-4x a week (every other day)
> Traces added on off days as the macro nutrients, so 3x a week, 5mls each time.
> ...


The info above is a quote from Tom Barr's article "The Estimative Index". The full text is available at "barrreport.com". That sample dosing schedule is for a 20 gallon high light tank. Given that your tank is 10 gallon and relatively low light I would cut that dosing schedule at least by half. Greg at "gregwatson.com" can also guide you in this regard.

Good luck, Bill


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## Kyle (Jul 19, 2005)

This is what I use on my high light / pressurized co2 10gal.

Sunday - 50% Water change, 1/4tsp NaHCO3
Monday - 1/8tsp KNO3, 1/32tsp K2S04, 1/32tsp KH2PO4
Tuesday - 3ml trace
Wednesday - 1/8tsp KNO3, 1/32tsp K2S04, 1/32tsp KH2PO4
Thursday - 3ml trace
Friday - 1/8tsp KNO3, 1/32tsp K2S04, 1/32tsp KH2PO4
Saturday - 3ml trace

You may or may not need the NaHCO3, I do to get my KH up to 4.


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

Just a quick comment: 1" of peat moss is alot of peat. Normally you just want to sprinkle some on the bottom; not even enough to cover the bottom glass.


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Kyle, what light set up do you have for your 10 gal? I dread more money into what could turn into an algae farm, but maybe I need to up my lighting?!

As for too much peat, I learned that after the fact. They sold it in hard-formed bricks and so I simply COVERED the entire 10 gal in a 1-2" layer. OVER KILL! :icon_roll 

As an aside, the tank has sprung a slow leak, so I bought a new 10 gal tank and more flourite ($30 ouch!) and will not lay peat down this time - at all - as many have said it was not necessary in the fist place. 

I went to the LFS with a list of those strange sounding acronyms from the Barr Report. (Thank you btw for advising me it was for a 20 versus 10 gal). They sent me home with four products and the following advice

 Flourish™ for trace (5 mL/half capful twice a week).
 Flourish Excel™ for carbon (extra C02) few drops of daily
 Flourish Iron™ (half capful once a week).
 Flourish fertilizer tabs deep into the substrate for rooted plants
**SeaChem Equilibrium 1/8 teaspoon after water change. (they were out of this but have some on backorder for me.)

None of these things sound remotely close to the stuff printed above and all that aquarium over-my-head stuff. Is the LFS clerk leading me down the garden path again? She's the same one who had me fill my tank with the thick mass of peat!?!

P.S. I so appreciate all your advice and input everyone.


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## andrewwl (May 3, 2004)

stcyrwm said:


> The info above is a quote from Tom Barr's article "The Estimative Index". The full text is available at "barrreport.com". That sample dosing schedule is for a 20 gallon high light tank. Given that your tank is 10 gallon and relatively low light I would cut that dosing schedule at least by half. Greg at "gregwatson.com" can also guide you in this regard.
> 
> Good luck, Bill


What implications does the high vs a long have on this dosing routine?


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

the idea of using peat is kind of outdated-- unless of course your tayloring to soft water craving plants (toninas come to mind). Flourish products are more basic, or general need covering products meant mostly for the beginners, though I think they're also very useful for the smaller tanks (especially excel on thos puny tanks you can't figure out how to put a CO2 regulator on).


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## stcyrwm (Sep 1, 2005)

andrewwl said:


> What implications does the high vs a long have on this dosing routine?


Do you mean a high tank versus a long tank????? 

If so, it affects the lighting factor a little bit but IME not nearly as much as things like quality of reflector and type of bulb. Dosing routines are based to a large extent on lighting with tanks above 2 wpg compact fluorescent needing CO2 and lots more ferts than below 2 wpg which can manage well without CO2 (although it still helps) and with simpler fert regime.


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## Kyle (Jul 19, 2005)

andrewwl when I said high light I meant lots of high powered lighting. I have a 2x40watt current-usa fixture over my 10gal. I realize that WPG formula breaks down a bit on large and small tanks, but 2x40watts over such a small tank is considered "high".

Here's the fixture I use: http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/current/Class//T1/F52+0434+0055/EDP/44120/Itemdy00.aspx


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Very cool light, Kyle, but more expensive than I wanted to get into. Maybe in a few months if my plants don't prosper under 2 wpg.

If I'm reading the feedback correctly, the flourish products I've bought is for beginners (which I am - new to plants and scared to death about the fertilizing stuff) and probably suffice for a low-light set up like mine (2 wpg) which infuses DIY C02.

So, based on that, do yuo think the following regieme looks right? 

Flourish™ for trace (5 mL/half capful twice a week).
Flourish Excel™ for carbon (extra C02) few drops of daily
Flourish Iron™ (half capful once a week).
Flourish fertilizer tabs deep into the substrate for rooted plants
SeaChem Equilibrium 1/8 teaspoon after water change.


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

If you are running DIY CO2, you shouldn't need *excel*.
What are your kh/gh out of the tap? You may not need the *equilibrium*.
Don't think they'll hurt anything, but you might as well save your $ to spend on more fun things.
One thing I don't see in your regimen are any macros - nitrate, potassium, phosphorus - for the water column. Your plants probably need those more than the iron you are presently adding. 
I believe *Seachem* makes liquid products for them, but you should compare the cost of even a small bottle of each, to what will be a several years' worth supply from *Greg Watson*.


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Wow, great advice. I will run a test of my tap water this afternoon and repost.


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Also, how the heck does one measure 1/32 of a teaspoon??? :eek5:

And what the !?#%?! is NaHCO3?


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

julesann said:


> Also, how the heck does one measure 1/32 of a teaspoon??? :eek5:
> 
> And what the !?#%?! is NaHCO3?


Use a measuring spoon or a good eye.
* Dash = 1/8 teaspoon 
* Smidgen = 1/32 teaspoon 
* Pinch = 1/16 teaspoon
Spoons are available at Walmart, but I’m not sure they have invaded Canada just yet. Check around I’m sure you’ll be able to source a set locally.

As for the NaHCO3? Personally never heard of the stuff till you mentioned it. 

If anything go to Greg Watsons site and get an idea of what you'll need beside the micros in the trace bottles you have. You can source items in your area like PO4 from liquid enema found at any Rx.

We need to know your tap perameters after you have allowed the sample to gass out...Trust me it's good to get a baseline for starters.

Keep the questions comming...


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks - I didn't realize that they made tsp's so small!

*From the tap*
PH:7.3
KH:30 
GH:60
Ammonia: 0.05 
Co2: 2.5
N02: 0.1

*Oct 21 (last Friday)*
PH:7.2
KH: 90 
GH:300 
Co2: 9.5 
Ammonia: 0.05 
N02: 0.3

*Oct 26 (Today)*
PH: 7.3
KH: 90
GH: 220
Co2: 7.5
Ammonia: 0.05
N02: 0.0

My nitrates seem REALLY low. I'm worried that this has caused an outbreak of grey slime. See my post in the algae section!


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

julesann said:


> Thanks - I didn't realize that they made tsp's so small!
> 
> *From the tap*
> PH:7.3
> ...


Youll need to start adding the NO3 soon or you will start getting a BGA outbreak. See if you can order from Greg Watson or another supplier for the following.
Potassium Nitrate=NO3
Potassium Sulfate=K2SO4
Potassium Phosphate=PO4
Magnesium Sulfate=Mg (Epsom Salts)

Along with the seachem trace and iron you'll have all that is needed to dose the tanks for a while.

If your ordering from Greg pick up some CSB+B and Iron so when your trace and iron bottles run out you can mix up a batch and just dose this for the trace and iron requirements.

You'll probably have to use RO water for the water changes to drop the GH a bit... I use water scrubbed for drinking at a local water mill. This will also bring down the KH a bit so you stay within around the 60 mark.

If your injecting CO2 try and keep the PH around 6.8 to 6.4 so you know it's working and your around 30ppm of CO2 dissolved in the water column.

Unless you have a major fish population and the plants are heathy you should't worry about ammonia. I havn't tested that for over two years. 


Anyone else have ideas or did this cover it?


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

AWESOME INFORMATION!!!

I'll head to the LFS to pick up the Trace, Nitrgen, Potassium and Phosphorus. It's a 10 gal so buying it liquid andkeeping it to the same line of product (seachem) works for me.

There seems to be some early signs of algae - too soon yet to determine which kind, so I'm eager to fertilize without causing more headaches!

What exactly does RO water mean?

Also, how do I bring down my pH? I once used pH down but it didn't seem effective and a lot of people advise against it. Could I add some baking soda -a pinch at a time? Or buy it bottled?


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Back from the LFS.

They only carry Flourish, Iron and Excel. The manager there said not to use anything else. Adamantly refused the notion of me adding Flourish Nitrogen. 

I explained that people were concerned that it was so low and could cause BGA and he said nonsense... that adding KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2S04 would only cause an algae outburst.

OK, the idea of that scares me. 

So, now I'm really baffled. 

AND, he's the only place in town that sells seachem!

Maybe I need to email Greg now for help!


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

you measure tiny amounts by making a solution. A standard strengh solution for plantex is 2 tablespoons to 500 ml. (so 1 tbs/250ml, 1 tsp/83ml, 1/4 tsp/21ml).

If you need quanties smaller than 1/4 tsp, then start with a more dillute solution - say 1 tablespoon/500ml or even 1/2 tbs/500ml. At 1/2 tbs/500 ml, 1/32 tsp would be 10 ml - which is an easily measurable amount. 

For my 58 gallon I use 1/2 strenth solutions - just to make measuring easier. I have a macro solution based on 1/2 strengh kno3 (and then add other macros proportion). Also have a micro solution of plantex. I have them in different shape white bottles to keep track of them (I have had no algae issues in the bottles since they allow very little light inside)
------
EI is unconventional - it is a fairly new thing. All the LFS I talked to also thought it was crazy - but it is working pretty darn well for me. Also understand that there is no profit in the LFS selling the raw chemicals, but there is profit in you comming into the store every couple months - you will always buy more than just a bottle of fert.
------
Working with the raw chemicals was a bit confusing. I went home for the weekend and talked with the son of the local farm grain store. He used to stock most of the stuff greg sells - for a local hydroponic farm. Greg helps us by splitting the 50lb bags which would be multiple liftime supplies.


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks. The idea of measuring makes me queezy. I can't follow a basic cookie recipe! GULP!


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## krazykidd86 (Jul 27, 2005)

Measuring out Greg Watsons chemicals is a piece of cake. Hardest part of it all was probably opening up the ziplock bag that was taped shut. Get your NPK and traces from that guy and you're good. 

People make it too complicated sometimes by toying with the measurements. People have similar tank specs to you, and dose, I'm sure if you look it up you'll find a baseline for how much to stick in the tank. Of course there are more specifics to dosing, but generally just do the baseline dosing to get moderate- great growth. You can do a baseline like this:

Macros - NPK
Potassium Nitrate (N)=NO3 - 1/8 tsp 3x week
Potassium Sulfate (K)=K2SO4 - 1/32 tsp 3x week
Potassium Phosphate (P)=PO4 - 1/32 tsp 3x week

Micro - Trace Elements
Plantex CSB+B - 1/32 tsp 3x week offdays of macros

50% water change weekly. 

Dose everything dry, no real need to make a solution for your trace of plantex. Just do your weekly waterchange and you're good. 

Buy 1lb of each chemical. Will probably last you 1+ year

I'm sure you can do it..hell..I did. Good luck


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Thank you for the encouragement. I'll place my order. roud:



> Dose everything dry, no real need to make a solution for your trace of plantex. Just do your weekly waterchange and you're good.


I see plantex CSB+B listed - is this also trace or should I order something called trace too from Greg?

And no need for iron supplements either?


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

I'm far from an expert, but I'd think that you can pretty much stop asking your LFS guy for advice concerning plants.
I can imagine someone who is interested in doing planted in a casual kinda way might think some of the folk here go a little bit overboard. And I am loathe to criticize a retailer for recommending what he has in stock.
But this guy is recommending something that I think most folk would agree is unnecessary (excel given your DIY CO2), and expressing an opinion that is contrary to just about anything else I've encountered. While there are few absolutes in this area, I think a pretty clear majority of folks would accpet it as given that your macros are at least as important as - if not more important than - your iron and micros.
No reason to argue with the guy, but I would suggest there are reasons to not give him any more of your $ than absolutely necessary!


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Agreed. I have lost faith in all LFS now as these guys were the cream of the crop here. Thank you! I am begining to understand that I know as much, if not more, than some of these LFS retailers! Thank you!


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

not sure if my first post made complete sence or not. 

But basically make a solution by starting with a known volume of water (example 500ml/.5 liter bottle) and a figure out how many dosages you want that bottle to make. If you want 16 dosages, your dosages would be 500/16=31.25 (say 30ml), and you would put 16 of the daily dry dosage in the bottle. (So if you wanted to dose 1/32 tsp, you would put 16 1/32 tsp's in the bottle - or 1/2 tsp).


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

It makes perfect sense now - thanks.


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## csfish (Sep 29, 2003)

If you haven't ordered yet from Greg, you can get all those macros from the hydroponics place on Quadra. They're available in 500gm bags. You can use your Flourish (do you have the Trace or regular Flourish?) for the trace elements or try Tropica's Master Grow available at Specht's or Safari. Saves you a whole lot on shipping and should last awhile for a 10gal tank.


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

roud: Thank you. No, I haven't ordered from Greg yet. I think I still will and in the mean time, run and get the stuff from Quadra and Spechts. Thank you for your localized help!!!


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