# The Rescape! Chlorophile's Mini M - Now with driftwood!



## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

That's gonna look great! Lovin' the towel rack inside the cabinet, that's really neat


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

Very nice work! That is going to look sweet when you are complete.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> That's gonna look great! Lovin' the towel rack inside the cabinet, that's really neat





demonr6 said:


> Very nice work! That is going to look sweet when you are complete.


Thanks guys! I'll keep the pictures comin' when I have more to show. 

Don't know if you can tell but the back pane of glass on the Mini M is frosted too, should look nice for iwagumi.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Just ordered 9 Liters of aquasoil, 4 pots of HC, and a bunch of Cabomba Red.
Hopefully the cabomba will look good in the rear of the tank. 
Here is the rock I'm going to use as a focal point. 
























Not sure if it's very good. I am probably going to need more stones. =[


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

What an awesome looking stand.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> What an awesome looking stand.


Thank you, I am actually thinking about making more and selling them but the seller system on planted tank is complicated - I can't take preorders so I really can't sell them because I wouldn't build one and just hope it sold.
I'm also worried about what kind of ADA copyright infringement I could be stepping into if I sold them.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Where are you located? I'm actually looking for a new stand for a 20g long rimless....30 inches wide...


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Okay so a little update. 

My plants got here today, I'm still waiting on new aquasoil, but in the mean time I'm playing around with rock placement. 

So here it is - this is what I like the best, although any of the rocks angles could be tweaked. 

I'll also have more soil so I will have the central rock higher up and the rocks that lay flat with the soil will be steeper. 


Pictures are in order of fiddling. 


























































































































































Critiques please!

I'm not sure how I feel about the far left rock that protrudes out towards us...


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Alright - how about this, better, worse?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Moved the bottom left two rocks closer together


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## bmwguy525 (Nov 14, 2011)

I thought DSC_0744 looked great, but then I scrolled down and saw 0772. Amazing! That one is my favorite layout by far.

I love the simplicity and clean look of your setup. I LOVE that cabinet! Too bad you didn't document the build of that cabinet, it just looks so good.


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## bmwguy525 (Nov 14, 2011)

I also love the coloration of that rock. Where did you get it?


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

I like picture #11, 12, 13, 14 on post number 9.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

bmwguy525 said:


> I thought DSC_0744 looked great, but then I scrolled down and saw 0772. Amazing! That one is my favorite layout by far.
> 
> I love the simplicity and clean look of your setup. I LOVE that cabinet! Too bad you didn't document the build of that cabinet, it just looks so good.


Haha thank you for the kind words, I think I like this other set up more though - I'll post pics at the end of this post.



bmwguy525 said:


> I also love the coloration of that rock. Where did you get it?


They're ohko stone I purchased from Aquaforest aquarium



sayurasem said:


> I like picture #11, 12, 13, 14 on post number 9.


Thank you - I am attached to this as a set up now, let me know what you think. 




I will add more soil to bury the bottom right rock a bit more, I'll also add more soil everywhere, especially the back right corner.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

HC Planted..
Well sort of...

I Sprinkled it all over the substrate and pressed it down a bit. 

I've had good results with this method in the past so lets hope it works. 










I am injecting co2 into the tank, drop checker is bright yellow right now, but in this picture its green.


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## Mosake (Jan 24, 2012)

Wow! I am really looking forward to see how this set up is going to turn out, keep em updates coming! :bounce:


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

Threads like this make me wish I had room to do an "ADA-style Iwagumi" tank. 

Awesome build in progress.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Day 2 of the HC Grow In. 

Much of the HC is putting down roots, and the buds on the ends of the stems have gotten larger and started facing towards the light. 

You can also see that my water level is non existent, there is only condensation. 
All the soil is moist, the glass is moist, the HC is moist - but there is no standing water. 
This is so I have very very little to worry about as far as algae - I have gotten hair algae during a dry start that killed everything. 

I've also had root rot - don't ask me how an aquatic plant gets root rot.. I have no idea .

I also believe the roots have access to more oxygen this way, and I think that helps also. 



























Very low water level - practically no standing water. 










New roots.









New root dead center - can you spot it? 









Another new root dead center up against the glass, very short, but its on it way into the ground!









Another new root


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Has anyone else tried the sprinkle method? 
Last time I had a lot more die off but this time everything seems to be doing just fine - I wonder if its the co2 i injected into the tank.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Wow I never tried sprinkle method. But I did "press" down my HC with my fingers, after planting it with tweezer.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> Wow I never tried sprinkle method. But I did "press" down my HC with my fingers, after planting it with tweezer.


Yea I've found that burying the hc is only needed if you are going to flood the tank. 
It will gladly take root just laying on the surface if everything is kept moist enough.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You do not want a really good seal, some air needs to exchange, HC can handle lower humidity eg, 50% RH, adding CO2 does not help really either.

Best to log with 1-2 week interval pics.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> You do not want a really good seal, some air needs to exchange, HC can handle lower humidity eg, 50% RH, adding CO2 does not help really either.
> 
> Best to log with 1-2 week interval pics.


I do a spray every other day which should provide plenty of air exchange - I keep co2 at around 500ppm - can't hurt anything and can only benefit - no reason to have lower humidity, not even sure how I would target that as a goal - thanks for your input - I'll be doing photo updates every 2-4 days at the beginning to log root development and then every 5-7 days after root development isn't worth logging.

At the end I'll post the longer interval pics in one post. 

Thanks Tom, what do you think about doing a dry start with no standing water? Do you think there is much to gain out of increasing root o2 and decreasing risk of root rot or substrate algae?

Also I am not paying any attention to measuring relative humidity - I dont keep tree frogs anymore so I dont even own a humidity monitor - besides mine always read 100 percent no matter what. I think for my method which doesn't involve any substrate burying (sprinkled shreds of HC)it is important to keep enough humidity that the leaves stay moist - none of my hc is under the soil - it is all sprinkled on top so increasing co2 should close the stomata, decrease water loss, and allow me to have less water to increase root o2 and decrease risk of root rot or any other sort of moisture dependent root/leaf pests.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

I cut out little foam inserts for the holes the lily pipes come through.

I'll make slits for the hoses to go through once the dry start is over. 

This is so my mechanical timer isn't as noisy. 



















More roots today - this one has gone from 1 to 3.










Here is a picture actually showing the cabinet and my messy floor. 
Flash washes out the color - it's much darker than that really.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

*Day 8*









Roots are getting deep!


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## keilatan (Jan 22, 2011)

Very cool! Looking forward to how this one pans out.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Very nice aquarium you have there. I really like your stand as well. 

I actually have the same stone in my aquarium right now along with HC so we are pretty similar flora wise! I need to get my CO2 going though and my rocks take up 80% or so of the room in the aquarium.

-Andrew


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Yea I had a hard time with rock placement, most of the rocks are very buried because I was trying to create an eroded monolithic look. 
In the end I ended up sacrificing some of what I wanted visually for what I thought would be the most appealing to everyone else, which I actually feel bad about now, but I think I will like it in the end.

I might put some S. Repens in the back right of the tank. 

Anybody think that would look okay?


A Hill said:


> Very nice aquarium you have there. I really like your stand as well.
> 
> I actually have the same stone in my aquarium right now along with HC so we are pretty similar flora wise! I need to get my CO2 going though and my rocks take up 80% or so of the room in the aquarium.
> 
> -Andrew


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

dood it would be cool if you have a tripod, take pictures of the same frame everyday, then silde shows over 3 weeks period!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> dood it would be cool if you have a tripod, take pictures of the same frame everyday, then silde shows over 3 weeks period!


Oh I do have a tripod and I tried that before but I don't have the diligence to take the pictures every day and I rarely leave my tripod in one spot for more than a week because I like to photograph weird stuff that needs a long exposure.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

*Week 2 - Day 14* HC is growing in quick - interestingly the stuff in the shade on the right side of the tank is growing faster - I wonder what that is about..














































Please pardon the HC cupcake sitting on my big rock! 
Saving it for a wabikusa once I have funds to make a light for it.

I also noticed you can't really see my fifth rock.. makes it look like I have 4 which isn't so great.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

And here is an HDR of the tank! 
Not the most realistic but it was fun to make anyway.


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

How do you make an HDR? Growth looks great


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Keep us posted! I'm really interested in how the final product of your HC carpet is going to look considering the fact that you are keeping the HC "moist." Most journals I've seen show the substrate very saturated with water.


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## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

You're dry start is going very well. I've got to try your technique of not actually planting them, seems to work better.

I tried a dry start a few months ago. Didn't go so well, half of it yellowed and the parts which managed to spread were overcome with some sort of emergent hair algae. 

Very clean combined set up, digging the foam cut out for the stand's openings. Slick!


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

whats your lighting schedule like? doing it the way you are is a basic aeroponic set up with a couple things changed, which is why u will have much better growth and no root decay. if your shaded side is growing faster that could be a sign that its getting to much light (time/intensity) but if its just growing up thats normal as its shaded and trying to grow to the light. either way u should know soon either way if that side fills in try toning down the light if its just growing up then u know its just from shade, if thats the case just tape some aluminum foil to the side to help light get around that rock and back to the substrate

there are little tips and tricks to make it even faster not really needed and u have down what u need imo. if u can cover all the sides so no light can get in or out might help out, and id do a 14hrson 10off or 18on 6off light sched. just watch your plant it will speak to u when its happy or not.


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## kcartwright856 (Jan 16, 2012)

Love the rock pieces that you chose! With the plants, it reminds me of a hillside in Great Britain.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

HypnoticAquatic said:


> whats your lighting schedual like? doing it the way you are is a basic aeroponic set up with a couple things changed, which is why u will have much better growth and no root decay. if your shaded side is growing faster that could be a sign that its getting to much light (time/intensity) but if its just growing up thats normal as its shaded and trying to grow to the light. either way u should know soon either way if that side fills in try toning down the light if its just growing up then u know its just from shade, if thats the case just tape some aluminum foil to the side to help light get around that rock and back to the substrate
> 
> there are little tips and tricks to make it even faster not really needed and u have down what u need imo. if u can cover all the sides so no light can get in or out might help out, and id do a 14 8 or 18 6 light sched. just watch your plant it will speak to u when its happy or not.



I don't get what you mean by 14 8 or 18 6 light sched.


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## xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx (Jul 12, 2011)

Loving the setup, really love the Ohko stone you have in the tank!!!!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Doc7 said:


> How do you make an HDR? Growth looks great


You can make an HDR in photoshop CS5 or in Photomatix by combining multiple pictures that are taken at different EV (exposure values) 



thief said:


> Keep us posted! I'm really interested in how the final product of your HC carpet is going to look considering the fact that you are keeping the HC "moist." Most journals I've seen show the substrate very saturated with water.


Thanks for the interest! It is growing quite well, the coming 2 weeks will be where most of the growth happens, the first 2 weeks are all adjustment and roots.
You can see how all there is in the tank is condensation - all the soil is moist from the constant evaporation and condensation that repeats as the tank warms and cools.










synaethetic said:


> You're dry start is going very well. I've got to try your technique of not actually planting them, seems to work better.
> 
> I tried a dry start a few months ago. Didn't go so well, half of it yellowed and the parts which managed to spread were overcome with some sort of emergent hair algae.
> 
> Very clean combined set up, digging the foam cut out for the stand's openings. Slick!


Sprinkling the HC on the surface definitely seems to give more of a headstart and the HC puts down roots just fine - if you have the patience to not flood it for a while this is the way to go, but if I flooded right now I think about half of it would float. 

I've had issues with yellowing the past, and the emergent hair algae - it was a nightmare and eventually killed all my HC, this method is much better for preventing algae, although you do see a good bit of yellowing where some leaves and roots die off as a result of just laying on the surface. 



HypnoticAquatic said:


> whats your lighting schedule like? doing it the way you are is a basic aeroponic set up with a couple things changed, which is why u will have much better growth and no root decay. if your shaded side is growing faster that could be a sign that its getting to much light (time/intensity) but if its just growing up thats normal as its shaded and trying to grow to the light. either way u should know soon either way if that side fills in try toning down the light if its just growing up then u know its just from shade, if thats the case just tape some aluminum foil to the side to help light get around that rock and back to the substrate
> 
> there are little tips and tricks to make it even faster not really needed and u have down what u need imo. if u can cover all the sides so no light can get in or out might help out, and id do a 14hrson 8off or 18on 6off light sched. just watch your plant it will speak to u when its happy or not.


I'm on a 16 on 8 off light cycle right now.

I think the stuff in the shade is growing better because of moisture issues. 
It doesn't get as much light so I think it's not drying out as much but the stuff in the middle is doing good, just not quite as good. 

There is a bit of what you mentioned too - leggier taller growth in the shade, but the leaves are bigger too and it looks a lot fuller as a result.

Hadn't thought about it as a makeshift aeroponic set up - it does meet certain criteria!



kcartwright856 said:


> Love the rock pieces that you chose! With the plants, it reminds me of a hillside in Great Britain.


Interesting! My mothers side of the family actually lives in Stoke-On-Trent and I recently visited and we went up to Wales which did have a similar kind of look now that you mention it!



sayurasem said:


> I don't get what you mean by 14 8 or 18 6 light sched.


He's talking about how many hours the lights are on vs off - but made a little booboo on the hours in the day when he said 14 8. :hihi:



xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx said:


> Loving the setup, really love the Ohko stone you have in the tank!!!!


Thanks! I like them a lot, they are an underrated stone IMO. 
I really love the blue and red tint they have - even more pronounced when underwater too!


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

lol fixed, its due to those days that feel real short and u dont know why ;p.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

HypnoticAquatic said:


> lol fixed, its due to those days that feel real short and u dont know why ;p.


That explains it!
This year is a leap year, I guess its to make up for when we all have a day with only 22 hours in it haha!


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

if your seeing better growth from the side that is retaining more water then u really should spray once a day, or use a humidifier *lazymansway* you can also have water standing in the bottom where no roots will get to might help with a little extra humidity just keep about 1.5 inch min away from the root, then u could also use a heat pad to heat the water and provide more humidity and faster growth depending on curent temps. there are other things u can do but you should get and be pleased with the growth soon(gotta keep some secrets) ya know.


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## akpoly (Aug 23, 2011)

I started my tank a week before you did and flooded my soil. Got some fungus problems that took half of my HC. I gotta say I took out most of the water in my tank (about 2 inches below the surface) and the hc isn't having any fungus problems now.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

HypnoticAquatic said:


> if your seeing better growth from the side that is retaining more water then u really should spray once a day, or use a humidifier *lazymansway* you can also have water standing in the bottom where no roots will get to might help with a little extra humidity just keep about 1.5 inch min away from the root, then u could also use a heat pad to heat the water and provide more humidity and faster growth depending on curent temps. there are other things u can do but you should get and be pleased with the growth soon(gotta keep some secrets) ya know.


Eh I'm not too concerned with it, I'm seeing good growth. 
I had wanted to use a heatpad but I don't have one anymore! =[


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## TRIG (Jul 2, 2011)

lookng great, what do you plan on stocking it with?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

TRIG said:


> lookng great, what do you plan on stocking it with?


Lol... I have no idea!

I am not okay with any fish really being in a tank this small - I could maybe do 2 dario dario. 
Not sure really, I'll definitely have shrimp.
Hopefully Black Tigers or Shadow Panda or something cool like that.


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## TRIG (Jul 2, 2011)

Sounds great man! You have been doing a good job of keeping everyone updated so far, please keep it up. I made a thread in the shrimp forum last week and am looking to do pretty much the same thing. I basically want a high tech iwagumi with shrimp, so this journal is one I'll be keeping a close eye on


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

TRIG said:


> Sounds great man! You have been doing a good job of keeping everyone updated so far, please keep it up. I made a thread in the shrimp forum last week and am looking to do pretty much the same thing. I basically want a high tech iwagumi with shrimp, so this journal is one I'll be keeping a close eye on


High tech is fun - I have an obsession with equipment and gear and technology so it's awesome to get to work with co2 equipment. 
The more weird stuff I have to work with the better!


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## FooDog (Jun 28, 2010)

That is such a beauty!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Got some staurogyne - thinking about planting it around the main rock and behind it. 
Wonder if it would transition to emersed very well...


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## Robotponys (Sep 7, 2011)

For stocking how about looking at some of these (not necessarily together):
-Any shrimp you want pretty much 
-Micro rasboras (boraras maculatus for example)
-CPD's (celestial pearl danios)
-betta, but no shrimp or other fish then
-small neon/cardinal tetras
-pygmy cories (they do swim in mid water column mostly)
-otos
-dario dario
-lots more


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Tank looks great. I really love the work on your stand. The foam inserts was a great addition (I assume you will keep them and cut a hole for the pipes). Should turn out great.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Robotponys said:


> For stocking how about looking at some of these (not necessarily together):
> -Any shrimp you want pretty much
> -Micro rasboras (boraras maculatus for example)
> -CPD's (celestial pearl danios)
> ...


I have CPD's in my living room tank - so I could probably get babies for this tank if I wanted so that is a good possibility. 
I had thought about Chili Rasboras but they swim a little high for an Iwagumi. 

I'm gonna get tiger shrimp for sure - the fish choices will come later but I have considered Dario Dario. 



talontsiawd said:


> Tank looks great. I really love the work on your stand. The foam inserts was a great addition (I assume you will keep them and cut a hole for the pipes). Should turn out great.


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## TRIG (Jul 2, 2011)

CPD's are much nicer than chili's IMO, sounds good to me.


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## Chunks (Jul 12, 2011)

Love the stand very professional! Are you a cabinet maker?


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## TRIG (Jul 2, 2011)

update!


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

update indeed, lol! Seriously awsome tank stand and tank.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Chunks said:


> Love the stand very professional! Are you a cabinet maker?


Hah no I am not, just a sort of jack of all trades.
I like to work with my hands, I guess I get it from my dad, he's done carpentry, he made his own canoes by hand and sold them, is an awesome mechanic, and was an electrician for a while too . 



GDP said:


> update indeed, lol! Seriously awsome tank stand and tank.


Hah thank you!
The stand was a lot of fun to make!
Update is coming in the next post!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

*Week 3 - Day 23*

Full Tank shot



























Somehow my white balance changed halfway through shooting =[


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## keilatan (Jan 22, 2011)

I love root shots against the glass! I think this tank is so excellent.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

keilatan said:


> I love root shots against the glass! I think this tank is so excellent.


Thank you - I've been taking root shots to demonstrate HC's ability to put down roots and how fast they do so when you simply sprinkle HC on your substrate. 

Also to anyone thinking about trying this, it is probably not the greatest idea to do with submersed HC.. I don't know for sure but it might wilt off a lot more. 


Also I added some S. Repens which you can see in one of the above pics!


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## forrestp38829 (Nov 17, 2010)

Tank looks beautiful! Question regarding the stand: Did you use plywood and laminate it? Or is it just painted? Thanks


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## chiefroastbeef (Feb 14, 2011)

Your entire setup, attention details is amazing! Thank you for sharing.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

forrestp38829 said:


> Tank looks beautiful! Question regarding the stand: Did you use plywood and laminate it? Or is it just painted? Thanks


Yea I used plywood.
I bought the best stuff they had at homedepot but any would probably do, and I had to custom order the laminate from Formica, the color is mouse grey!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

It will have been 1 month from planting in 2 days... 

I wan't to flood it!
I don't dare!
Everything always goes wrong once water is in the tank!

What say you!?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Also anybody use Rotala Rotundifolia in an iwagumi?

I'm wondering if it would look good in the back of the tank...


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## Hayden (Feb 21, 2012)

I love the tank Chlorophile! I would vote against the Rotala, as I think it would ruin the simplicity of the tank. Also, do you mind telling me how you achieved the background? Thanks!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Man what a stunning little tank... i'm totally jealous!
Always been a huge fan of the iwagumi style, especially with ohko stone. I really like your arrangement.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> Also anybody use Rotala Rotundifolia in an iwagumi?
> 
> I'm wondering if it would look good in the back of the tank...


I haven't but it has been done. It looks good but I like your tank as is. If anything, I would consider a shadow box background or the like instead.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Hayden said:


> I love the tank Chlorophile! I would vote against the Rotala, as I think it would ruin the simplicity of the tank. Also, do you mind telling me how you achieved the background? Thanks!


Fair enough.. I think HC and S. Repens will look really good when I get more of it!


The background is a frosted window film. 
All you need is a squeegee to apply it, and some soapy water and a spray bottle.
It is applied the same way that automotive window tint is applied - it comes in a roll which you can cut to slightly larger than you need for the back of the tank. 
Then you fill a spray bottle with a teaspoon or so of dish soap and fill it half way with warm water - the water in the spray bottle just needs to be slightly sudsy. 
Spray the back side of the tank with the solution. 
Try to peel off the protective layer of the window film - it is hard but you'll find it eventually. As you peel off the protective layer spray the adhesive side (yes the adhesive side, the side that was just covered with the protective layer) with the soapy water. LOTS of soapy water, you can't use too much. 
Now spray the tank again just to make sure the back of it is nice and wet. 
You can now press the adhesive side of the window film gently to the back of the tank - just press down in the middle for right now. 

It will slide around and be easy to maneuver into the position you want. 
Now spray the back side of the film to reduce friction between the film 
once you think you've got it centered, use the squeegee or your hand (a squeegee will work much better) and slowly work the air bubbles out from the center towards the edge, this is the hard part and you must be methodical and not go too fast.
once you have all the air bubbles squeegeed out cut off the excess with a razor blade. 
It is easy to mess up and pull some of the window film off when you cut it and make a divot into the film so be careful.
Some people wait a day before cutting the edges because by then it will be stickier and wont pull off, but I have done it many times, on cars and on tanks, so I don't bother waiting. :thumbsup:

You can get the window frost film from a lot of places but I got mine from Tapplastics. 
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=324&


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

AzFishKid said:


> Man what a stunning little tank... i'm totally jealous!
> Always been a huge fan of the iwagumi style, especially with ohko stone. I really like your arrangement.


Why thank you!
It has been a long time in the making - I got this tank December 2010 - my Solar Mini M was back ordered for 6 months... The HC carpet has self-destructed 3 times, twice during a dry start and one time underwater. 

I later discovered my dry start disasters may have been from too much o2 and not enough co2 from leaving the tank sealed for too long resulting in poisoned Rubisco enzymes.
The Vacuoles of the plant cells must have filled with poisoned Rubisco and a chain reaction of death occured with the leaves blackening and slowly dying off to complete nothingness. 



talontsiawd said:


> I haven't but it has been done. It looks good but I like your tank as is. If anything, I would consider a shadow box background or the like instead.


Thanks! I've considered mounting some LEDs on the back of the stand for ambient lighting when the light goes off, probably use red and blue so I could adjust the color how I want. 
The frosted background does a good job of diffusing light and color behind the tank so the LEDs would be all that I'd need I think.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Is it time.....

For?



THE FLOOD!?












I wanna sink this sucker!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Here she is... 

I think.. she's going underwater.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Looks like ur good to go. Good luck!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Take it nice and slow bro. Theres no sense in getting in a hurry after this long of a wait. Good luck!


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

id wait it out, its not filled in yet an ive always noticed much better turn over with a larger/fuller plant mass but in the end its your choice, sounds like its just you wanting water in it if thats the case just hold off for a little longer. 

as for aesthetics just with a simple background will do i like the idea of a frosted/cloud look idk if you can put more than one piece on to give it more of a cloud effect might look sick doing a whole piece then small extras over it for the clouds to block out just a hair more light.. everything else looks good less is more imo and gets overlooked.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Alright tank is flooded... 

Got co2 atomizer on full tilt so tank looks like seltzer water right now haha.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Lemme tell ya.. Getting the eheim 2213 and this giant dual stage regulator to fit in this cabinet... was... well it tested my patience that is for sure. 
I had to contort and twist everything every which way... 
If the regulator is mounted in the normal orientation the door wont shut!
I need a shorter stem on it so it's not pressed up against the filter. 
And the thing is so heavy I have to have it braced to the inside of the cabinet to keep it from falling over. 
You can see my copper plumbers tape and wingnut assembly haha. 









Here's a quick dirty shot!








Alka-Seltzer.

And my friggen lens has some hair on it or something.. 


Can't wait for the staurogyne to grow in - please PM me if you wanna gimme a good deal on some staurogyne repens!


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

Good luck with the transition! Love the layout.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Just keep on it bro. Leave the water changes alone and let it acclimate to your water. Test and tweak the Co2 and lights for the next couple weeks. It will come together.


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

if you dont want a shorter stem just make a stand/brace for the tank so it lifts the whole system up a few inches, then you might be able to have it at a 45º angle to view the psi and bc.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Currently on 7 hours of light.
Will aim for 8 in the end.

Woke up this morning to my drop checker being a color I have never seen before...
It is seriously like.. copper.. brownish yellow. 
And the air pocket in the diffuser is larger than when I went to bed. 
Atomizer must be spraying bubbles everywhere and filling the drop checker with co2 gas. 
Very interesting - I turned it down a bit, my pH is at the limit of my test kit, so it is probably lower than that. 
I used 50% RO and 50% tap water for the fill. 
Haven't checked the combined GH KH yet, but I assume it is low because my tap KH and GH fluctuate around 3-5 depending on what month it is.

Is it possible to have too much co2?
I'm thinking the plants love the co2 but probably not the insanely low pH it might bring about.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

KH 2-3
GH 2-3
Ammonia - probably a billion, not even gonna test it till after my first water change!

Should I start dosing K right away?

I had a bad experience dosing EI right away after a dry start - I doubt it was actually because of EI but I will try the ADA way this time haha, let the soil do the work for the first month or so, just dose K.


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## alfalfa (Jan 19, 2012)

Chlorophile said:


> And my friggen lens has some hair on it or something..


Sensor dust?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

How long have you been dry started for? Your tank should be fully cycled by now no?


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

the dc can fill with the pearling bubbles ive had several plants pearl fast enough to fill that in a few hours so its most likely that and having it full = more surface area = faster reading. that being said you can have to much co2 for plants above water so should stay the same for under, one of the more important things is to have good o² levels for the roots!! one reason why it grew faster to start, i noticed a huge improvement on my plants by adding more surface movement with high co² levels. an dose some ferts except N if u have high ammo.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Jeromeit said:


> How long have you been dry started for? Your tank should be fully cycled by now no?


Dry start for 30 days.
I don't know that it would be completely cycled but I'm sure I've got some bacteria started. 

We will see in a minute!
I suspect ammonia will still be around 2-4, I bet I will have zero nitrite, and I bet I will have a nitrate reading. 




HypnoticAquatic said:


> the dc can fill with the pearling bubbles ive had several plants pearl fast enough to fill that in a few hours so its most likely that and having it full = more surface area = faster reading. that being said you can have to much co2 for plants above water so should stay the same for under, one of the more important things is to have good o² levels for the roots!! one reason why it grew faster to start, i noticed a huge improvement on my plants by adding more surface movement with high co² levels. an dose some ferts except N if u have high ammo.


Lol the heim 2213 is giving verrryy good surface movement.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Lol and sure enough!

Ammo - 4
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10


my pH is very low so the bacteria probably hate their lives. 
Presumably all the ammonia remaining will be taken up by plants and taken out via water changes.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)




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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Ooo good call lol


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## simply amazing (Aug 2, 2011)

love everything about your setup! where'd you get your nano drop checker from?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Jeromeit said:


> Ooo good call lol


:icon_smil
So looks like my nitrite bacteria are keeping up with the ammonia bacteria, just gotta get them both to grow some more!



simply amazing said:


> love everything about your setup! where'd you get your nano drop checker from?


I got it off [Ebay Link Removed]
Came from china and took a while but it's good quality and nice and small.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Man I don't know if this is pearling or just CO2 from my inline atomizer sticking to the HC. 
Typically this sort of thing is gone within a day, and I'd think with the high flow of my 2213 this stuff would already have blown but it seems to keep coming back.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Surface Ripple


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

And here is a cropped and photoshopped pearling picture...


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Woah awesome bro!


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## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

Blast that C02! Nice drop checker color, your definitely doing it right haha. I like your photos, in particular the test results. Typical ammonia/nitrate spike from the aquasoil. With my resent set-up the nitrates have remained descent with minimal kno3 dosage for almost 2 months now, it'll be interesting to see how high they stay in your set-up.

How do you like your inline atomizer? Any bubbles left in the current by the time it's up the hose and into the tank? I'm considering picking one up.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

synaethetic said:


> Blast that C02! Nice drop checker color, your definitely doing it right haha. I like your photos, in particular the test results. Typical ammonia/nitrate spike from the aquasoil. With my resent set-up the nitrates have remained descent with minimal kno3 dosage for almost 2 months now, it'll be interesting to see how high they stay in your set-up.
> 
> How do you like your inline atomizer? Any bubbles left in the current by the time it's up the hose and into the tank? I'm considering picking one up.


Yea the bubbles definitely come out into the tank.
If I had a longer outflow tube maybe they wouldn't but they do come out - in this size tank for a green drop checker you don't really need much more than 30 bubbles a minute. 
At that rate you can't see the bubbles in the tank because they are few and far between, and tiny.
I can only see the bubbles when I look through the side of the tank at the outflow, from straight on they are mostly invisible except from certain angles or in the corners where they kinda swirl about.


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## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

I see. Does the tubing from your filter go directly up to your outflow? Or are there any bends forcing the water to go down at all? I have quite a bit of outflow tubing to work with and figured I'd arrange it so the bubbles would rise against the current, just like the effect of a DIY pvc reactor.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

synaethetic said:


> I see. Does the tubing from your filter go directly up to your outflow? Or are there any bends forcing the water to go down at all? I have quite a bit of outflow tubing to work with and figured I'd arrange it so the bubbles would rise against the current, just like the effect of a DIY pvc reactor.


The bubbles are so small they wouldn't rise against the current.
The reason we make reactors out of 3 inch PVC is because it slows the flow once it reaches the 2 inch section, the slower flow will allow bubbles to actually rise. 
In regular tubing they will just get flushed right out, no matter what size they are. 
I'd say you are better off just building a reactor if you want something to act like a reactor.
I like the atomizer because it is small, doesn't take up space, and it sprays micro bubbles all around the tank that will come into contact with the plants which is better than just dissolved co2 imo.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Did a 50% water change today.
Checked ammonia after and it was about 2ppm so half of yesterday, go figure.

Still trying to get the tank level, adjustable feet are hard to adjust when they are sunken into the carpet. 

Noticed some stringy algae on some of the HC, it's greyish in color.
Dosed 4ml of Excel, which is about 2x the recommended initial dose.
There is no livestock and that level shouldn't melt the HC but hopefully will kill the algae.
I can't risk losing my entire carpet again.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Hmmm...

Today there is still some strands of greyish algae on some of the HC.

I could make the co2 even higher, no problem... Can I get some opinions on that?

I had been dosing iron and Micros but I think I will stop in case this is hair algae just loving on my iron!


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

Keep the ferts up and squirt the algae with Excel if it bothers you. Otherwise just physically remove it via a WC and some small tubing that won't suck up your HC. Not sure what's causing it but I remember Tom mentioned having some "grey snot algae" in his HC tank that got fixed with a WC.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

freph said:


> Keep the ferts up and squirt the algae with Excel if it bothers you. Otherwise just physically remove it via a WC and some small tubing that won't suck up your HC. Not sure what's causing it but I remember Tom mentioned having some "grey snot algae" in his HC tank that got fixed with a WC.


Excel is not something you want to use with HC. Spot dosing excel and HC don't mix. It will melt off and you loose your carpet. Normal, this is OK but with HC, not a good idea.


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Excel is not something you want to use with HC. Spot dosing excel and HC don't mix. It will melt off and you loose your carpet. Normal, this is OK but with HC, not a good idea.


Odd....only thing I have issues with when spot dosing HC is peroxide and it melts the daylights out of it. Excel, no problems. Might help that I only use very tiny amounts (something like a 10cc syringe that dad has hundreds of for insulin).


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

Chlorophile said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> Today there is still some strands of greyish algae on some of the HC.
> 
> ...



I think raising CO2 even further and/or stopping ferts is the wrong way to go. I only resort to excel as a last resort to fight bba. I would take the opposite approach.

Adjust the CO2 to the point where it's safe to add amano/otocinclus, make sure you have plenty of NPK + micros, avoid dead spots, and try to hold everything else constant. Change the water, keep it trimmed, and wait out the growing pains. HC will test anyone's patience.


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## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

Hope it's not silk algae . . are the hairs in clusters or are they scattered and hard to see?


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## daphilster08 (Oct 21, 2009)

So in love with your tank! Get us some more pics


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## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

curious but what was your daily light timing like when it was going through DSM?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

freph said:


> Keep the ferts up and squirt the algae with Excel if it bothers you. Otherwise just physically remove it via a WC and some small tubing that won't suck up your HC. Not sure what's causing it but I remember Tom mentioned having some "grey snot algae" in his HC tank that got fixed with a WC.


This stuff won't be pulled off by water changes, very clingy. 
I'm doing Excel 2x Initial dose on water changes every other day, and on non water change days doing 3x the daily dose.
The tank is still leeching some ammonia from aquasoil so I think that once that clears up the algae might be squelched.



talontsiawd said:


> Excel is not something you want to use with HC. Spot dosing excel and HC don't mix. It will melt off and you loose your carpet. Normal, this is OK but with HC, not a good idea.


Yep, I've melted HC with excel many times. 
The algae I have is not worth spot treating anyway, it is very very lightly populating a large area of the tank, no real dense clumps. 



freph said:


> Odd....only thing I have issues with when spot dosing HC is peroxide and it melts the daylights out of it. Excel, no problems. Might help that I only use very tiny amounts (something like a 10cc syringe that dad has hundreds of for insulin).


I've had h2o2 melt HC as well, but not as much as excel. 




Booger said:


> I think raising CO2 even further and/or stopping ferts is the wrong way to go. I only resort to excel as a last resort to fight bba. I would take the opposite approach.
> 
> Adjust the CO2 to the point where it's safe to add amano/otocinclus, make sure you have plenty of NPK + micros, avoid dead spots, and try to hold everything else constant. Change the water, keep it trimmed, and wait out the growing pains. HC will test anyone's patience.


I am gonna keep dosing excel.
I am laying off Micros in case it is hair algae or rhizoclonium.
This tank has nooooo deadspots, the 2213 is moving all the water very very well. After all this is only a 5.5 gallon tank, with enough soil and rocks to bring it below 5 gallons of actual water, with a pump rated for 116 GPH. 
Realistic GPH for filter with media is closer to 95 GPH, still around a 20x turnover rate. 

Tank is still cycling a bit, and I don't wan't any livestock for a while, I've encountered this type of algae before and the amano's didn't touch it. 
Otocinclus are pretty useless for this tank also. 

I'm doing a good bit of trimming, especially any pieces I see that have algae on them.
Also important at this stage to keep the HC low to get it rooting more. 




synaethetic said:


> Hope it's not silk algae . . are the hairs in clusters or are they scattered and hard to see?


eh... they're easy to see I guess, I'll get some pics up in a minute. 



daphilster08 said:


> So in love with your tank! Get us some more pics


Alright will do in a couple minutes!




Also I noticed that my Ohko stones still have quite a bit of red clay caked into some of the holes... They could be providing a good bit of iron to the tank, which may be to blame for this algae and the trouble I have had with these stones before with similar algae.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Sorry they are kinda smudgy - I tried to clean my sensor but I made it worse. 

Gotta go for a run now but I will take more later on.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Trimmed the HC pretty good just now. 
Gonna go get some random stems from the LFS tomorrow to float in the tank.


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## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

curious but what was your daily light timing like when it was going through DSM?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

gnod said:


> curious but what was your daily light timing like when it was going through DSM?


16 hours on 8 off.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Nice work, hope the algae disappears soon.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Ammonia is still off the charts. (edit: okay it's not off the charts, it's around 4ppm)

Did another 60% water change today.

Algae is still hangin around, it may be spreading too. 
I noticed some leaves of my S. Repens are yellowing/browning and dying off. 
The algae is growing only where the leaves are dying off....

I can't tell if this is the algae killing the plant or the plant is dying and the algae is just taking advantage of it.

Many leaves of HC with this algae on them are also grey and falling off, some whole stems come off too. 

Grrrrrr.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Algae seems to be better today...
Don't know what from though..

I have been trimming, dosing, doing water changes, using excel, adding MgSo4, floating bacopa caroliniana and rotala indica on top of the tank, keeping co2 really high, I even added a bit of prime..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

ARGGGHHH!!!

It killed 2 stems of Stauro.

And it's on the glass!?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

This is it before it kills the leaves...


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

And here it is after it has killed it!












And a Close up!










Anybody have any clue what this is?

I've also got some other gunk going on.. =[

Lights are only on for 7 hours.

Co2 is plenty strong, flow is good, co2 well distributed.

Excel every day, more than any sane person would use. 

Started dosing full EI today to see what happens.. 

Epsom Salts.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

My Bulb in my Solar Mini M is getting close to a year old...
I always figured it was a myth, but maybe I should replace my bulb?


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

More water changes, and don't dose anything except KH2PO4 since the AquaSoil is going to produce the nitrates. Try to suck out as much of the algae as possible. The HC looks to be melting from the transition to submersed form.

From experience with transitioning HC after a dry-start, this looks completely normal. This will be my 4th time in my 10g doing a DSM with foreground plants.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> More water changes, and don't dose anything except KH2PO4 since the AquaSoil is going to produce the nitrates. Try to suck out as much of the algae as possible. The HC looks to be melting from the transition to submersed form.
> 
> From experience with transitioning HC after a dry-start, this looks completely normal. This will be my 4th time in my 10g doing a DSM with foreground plants.


Hmm weird - I have never had any melting, especially with good co2. 
Maybe there is a first for everything.

It is only the HC that has the algae on it that is turning grey and dying too.
Sometimes the algae attaches to the stem of the HC and a healthy part at the end is still growing, but the stem breaks and the algae and healthy part detach to stick to something else. 

It looks like grey stringy boogers. really thin stringy boogers but still.

Oh yea and you can't suck this stuff up - doesn't even budge. 
Very very stuck on and very strong. =[


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Chlorophile said:


> My Bulb in my Solar Mini M is getting close to a year old...
> I always figured it was a myth, but maybe I should replace my bulb?


no myth. 
i never replaced late in my planted tanks, but once was swindled and sold a used MH bulb for my reef. 8 months later, my corals werent growing and algae was and i had no idea. when i replaced the bulb, the difference in lighting was visible. and the light was so much better, that my corals actually got scorched a little before they acclimated.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> no myth.
> i never replaced late in my planted tanks, but once was swindled and sold a used MH bulb for my reef. 8 months later, my corals werent growing and algae was and i had no idea. when i replaced the bulb, the difference in lighting was visible. and the light was so much better, that my corals actually got scorched a little before they acclimated.


But is the same true for freshwater?

I just ordered a new bulb, but still don't know if I believe I needed to.


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

Get a tooth brush and gently scrape the algae off the plants. It worked wonders for when I did a DSM with hairgrass. Worth a try at least...


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Get a tooth brush and gently scrape the algae off the plants. It worked wonders for when I did a DSM with hairgrass. Worth a try at least...


Yea I will do that if it gets thicker - I tried just now and it was impossible to get anything without burying the toothrbush and uprooting everything. 
I think with hairgrass it would be much easier.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Also I just took some readings. 

pH - I didn't test because I'm sure it is still the lowest my kit reads!
GH - 5, I have been mixing RO and tap water, but also adding MgSo4, either way I like this number. 
KH - 2, first drop turned it blue, second drop turned it yellow. 
Ammonia - 2ppm (edit: i should really look at the color chart before I decide what PPM I have, it is actually between 0.50 and 1.0)

Will do another water change tomorrow and do another 4ml of excel.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Grarrl algae is worse today!


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## kb_74 (Nov 10, 2011)

So what next?


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

algae or not i just LOVE this little tank. Its going to be SWEET when you get it on track.

good luck


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I started at your help thread but wanted to see more photo after you stated that you are now dosing full EI, that might be a good idea but I would think AS would carry you without any water column dosing but with that said I have gotten rid of a hair/thread type algae before by increasing my micro nutrients, so it may be good you started EI but just make any changes slowly and wait a week to get the result for a single change.

But I think 3 days of macro, 3 micro, 6 Fe at a reduced rate for your tank size might do the trick in keeping a balance. I do have one question, why are you dosing Excel if you have C02 or did I miss something?

I would reserve the Excel and just add the ferts.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Chlorophile, this link may help you out. I hope you get a handle of it.

Dan


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

150EH said:


> I started at your help thread but wanted to see more photo after you stated that you are now dosing full EI, that might be a good idea but I would think AS would carry you without any water column dosing but with that said I have gotten rid of a hair/thread type algae before by increasing my micro nutrients, so it may be good you started EI but just make any changes slowly and wait a week to get the result for a single change.
> 
> But I think 3 days of macro, 3 micro, 6 Fe at a reduced rate for your tank size might do the trick in keeping a balance. I do have one question, why are you dosing Excel if you have C02 or did I miss something?
> 
> I would reserve the Excel and just add the ferts.


Excel acts as an algaecide - especially at higher doses. 

This algae I have might be more similar to a high-order plant because I spot treated it and nothing happened.... And I mean I spot treated it with quite a good bit of excel.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

dantra said:


> Chlorophile, this link may help you out. I hope you get a handle of it.
> 
> Dan


Thanks, unfortunately my algae doesn't look like any of those, and it doesn't respond to any of the normal things you do to get rid of it.. 

I guess it is possible it is like a diatom algae... 
Or Rhizoclonium but grey... but it is long and stringy instead of balls of clumps - I am wondering if it is because of the current that it isn't forming like normal.


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## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

At the moment there are no critters in the tank, right? I recently had success using h202 to rid my tank of some algae. I'd recommend about 1.5ml per gallon... i used about 2.5per gallon and suffered some losses aside from all my algae, plants look fantastic though. I was hesitant to try it at first, but am glad I did in the end. Perhaps such a direct attack would do the trick for your situation, however I am unsure of any melting issues your HC might go through...


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

synaethetic said:


> At the moment there are no critters in the tank, right? I recently had success using h202 to rid my tank of some algae. I'd recommend about 1.5ml per gallon... i used about 2.5per gallon and suffered some losses aside from all my algae, plants look fantastic though. I was hesitant to try it at first, but am glad I did in the end. Perhaps such a direct attack would do the trick for your situation, however I am unsure of any melting issues your HC might go through...


I'll give it a shot. 
I'd been debating h2o2 but I suppose it is worth it now!


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

Chlorophile said:


> I'll give it a shot.
> I'd been debating h2o2 but I suppose it is worth it now!


excel + h202 + stressed HC =


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

That's a shame it was a nice setup. This is what I would do (you might have already done it), but just in case: 

.Do a very aggressive trim and then suck everything that was trimmed off with a 1/2" hose. 
.Clean out your filter and add a good supply of carbon and purigen. 
.Start running a 5 hour light cycle. keep up with water changes and dosing (probably K and micros at this point)

Good luck!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Booger said:


> excel + h202 + stressed HC =


Really?

Hmmm maybe I won't try h202 then..


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## dafil (Jul 17, 2010)

H2O2+ HC....dont even think about it 
only excel
actualy,I use easy carbo-3-4x initial dosage is not a problem


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Seems it may be clearing up a bit.

I've been putting 10mL of h2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) into the tank every day, along with 2 ml of Excel.

I am very upset that it destroyed 2 stems of S. Repens.
They were completely healthy one day, and the next day they were grey and white and see through and completely dead. 
Other stems that don't have the algae on them are completely healthy and beautiful.

This is some sort of stealth attack algae. 
It acts parasitic!
I hate it, and I hope it dies. 

I hope that my new bulb gets here soon, the HC is kind of leggy - I am trimming it really low with my nice Rumford Aquatics wave scissors, but I remember it used to grow a good bit more compact on previous attempts. 

That is all. =]


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## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

Glad to hear it is clearly up, sorry to hear about your losses. When I dosed h202 recently, it only took the initial dose of 50ml to kill all the spirogya in my tank . . . I did not do a water change afterwards under the impression that it would break down quickly with light and time, however the next morning and for a few days I lost a few shrimp, the deaths have since then stopped and there is no remaining spirogya. Riccia was hit the hardest, but my mosses didn't seem very effected.

Goodluck!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

synaethetic said:


> Glad to hear it is clearly up, sorry to hear about your losses. When I dosed h202 recently, it only took the initial dose of 50ml to kill all the spirogya in my tank . . . I did not do a water change afterwards under the impression that it would break down quickly with light and time, however the next morning and for a few days I lost a few shrimp, the deaths have since then stopped and there is no remaining spirogya. Riccia was hit the hardest, but my mosses didn't seem very effected.
> 
> Goodluck!


Luckily I have no livestock at the moment so I can put whatever in the tank!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Also on a whim I tested my nitrite and found that it's really high!

I guess my tank wasn't even close to cycled yet haha.


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## mougliblore (Jan 18, 2012)

Chlorophile said:


> Really?
> 
> Hmmm maybe I won't try h202 then..


I had a very bad bga attack on my 15 gallon HC tank and added to my woes, my co2 tank was empty for a couple of weeks. HC was almost at the verge of melting. I dosed my tank with h2o2 for 3 days and filled up my co2 tank. Its been a week, no sign of bga and HC is recovering pretty well...​


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

Chloro,

I have the answer to your question, and the solution is not so bad. The algae you are experiencing can be dealt with fairly swiftly and easily.

However, I must say to avoid H202 and Excel overdoses at all costs. These are chemicals that negatively cause more harm to your aquarium's ecosystem than they provide help. Excel, when dosed appropriately, straight into the water column, as a carbon additive, is a good supplement. 

Here's what happens when you add H202 and Excel Overdosing to your aquarium:

1. If you do it right, you kill the algae
2. You also jeopardize the plants
3. You kill off millions and millions of beneficial bacteria which keep your system stable (not just bacteria related to nitrogen cycle)

The result: More Algae because your ecosystem is weakened. It's a vicious cycle.

So here's your solution:

1. Before doing anything else, add 5-10 Amano shrimp. You can remove 5 later to maintain numbers of 5.

2. Add 1-2 otocinclus cats. 

3. Use airline tubing and siphon off dead material and algae decay around plants without sucking up algae. You will remove much of the debris and built up particles this way.

4. What are you running in your filter right now? At month two you should be 20% mechanical, 80% biological + 1 packet of Tourmaline F for water purification if need be. First month is 20% mechanical 80% biological. 

This is important for keeping your beneficial bacteria colony thriving.

5. What is in your substrate? Just aqua soil?

6. Use Phyton Git and Green Bacter after water changes: Green Bacter replenishes Beneficial Bacteria and Phyton Git helps eliminate algae. Dose some with excel. 

7. Trim off excessively bad or overrun portions of the plant. 

8. Are you dosing appropriately? You should only require 1 squirt of Brighty K (potassium) and 1 squirt of Step 1 at this point, and a minimal dosing of ECA (iron, etc) once a week.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

I would restart. But that's just me. If you need some more Stauro, I can send a little for just shipping. I feel bad, the same thing happened in my spec.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Francis Xavier said:


> Chloro,
> 
> I have the answer to your question, and the solution is not so bad. The algae you are experiencing can be dealt with fairly swiftly and easily.
> 
> ...


Thanks but I don't use ADA additives. 

I don't change filter media to suit my current tank issues unless it would be to add Carbon or Purigen. 

Yes, just Aquasoil.

This algae can be siphoned now that it has died and clumped up but before, it was unbreakable except by pulling small clumps off with tongs. 

The HC is now thriving and the algae has subsided.

A new bulb for my Solar Mini M and a double daily dose of Excel = 1ml, 10ml of h2o2 every day, and EI dosing plus constant trimming of the HC, as well as 10 stems of floating Bacopa Caroliniana and doing water changes with pure RO seems to have cured it. 

I don't know which did what but the combination seems to have done the trick. 

I lost some Staurogyne Repens, which is unfortunate, but all will rebound. 

I don't add livestock until I know I won't need to tear the tank down or use more drastic methods. 
Although I do like using amano shrimp in established tanks, I am still blasting co2 and excel/h2o2, I wouldn't wan't to harm any animals for the sake of algae removal.
O-cats don't do anything for this algae anyway other than uproot my HC.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> I would restart. But that's just me. If you need some more Stauro, I can send a little for just shipping. I feel bad, the same thing happened in my spec.


Hah, I refuse to restart!
You have no idea how long I have been working on this!
A month of dry-start will not be sacrificed simply to rebuke some puny algae!
I SHALL DESTROY IT.

Oh yea, I did destroy it. 

No need to feel bad, but thank you for your kindness. 
I will probably buy more Repens from you soon. 

Tank is doing well, I will post up some pics tomorrow. 

The tank DOES have some Rotala Indica planted in it right now, I just wanted some more plant mass.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> Hah, I refuse to restart!
> ...
> 
> ...
> ...


That was the two things I was going to say. Let things start to grow and the algae will subside. Maybe shorten the photoperiod if you haven't (haven't been keeping up with every update).

The second, you already did, add some plant mass. If you have a LFS or a Petco/Petsmart that still sells aquatic plants, you may want to spend like $5-10 on some fast growers. I have done this before when I don't have stems and it works great. I actually took my extra plant mass out of my carpet only tank (my other tank needed it after some major trimming) and algae hit pretty quickly. You don't even have to plant it, I just put some in with some weights, or rubber band a small rock if you don't have any.


I am sure this will bounce back with some patience, plant mass, and not a lot of work.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Chlorophile said:


> Hah, I refuse to restart!
> You have no idea how long I have been working on this!
> A month of dry-start will not be sacrificed simply to rebuke some puny algae!
> I SHALL DESTROY IT.
> ...


I see. Then this is grounds for an update!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> That was the two things I was going to say. Let things start to grow and the algae will subside. Maybe shorten the photoperiod if you haven't (haven't been keeping up with every update).
> 
> The second, you already did, add some plant mass. If you have a LFS or a Petco/Petsmart that still sells aquatic plants, you may want to spend like $5-10 on some fast growers. I have done this before when I don't have stems and it works great. I actually took my extra plant mass out of my carpet only tank (my other tank needed it after some major trimming) and algae hit pretty quickly. You don't even have to plant it, I just put some in with some weights, or rubber band a small rock if you don't have any.
> 
> ...


Yea the tank has Bacopa Caroliniana floating in it also. 
Photoperiod is 7 hours, maybe it's 6 and 1/2 I don't remember.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> Yea the tank has Bacopa Caroliniana floating in it also.
> Photoperiod is 7 hours, maybe it's 6 and 1/2 I don't remember.


I have gone as low as 5 hours, while still getting growth. Or you can try the mesh screen over your light with a regular photoperiod. I have grown HC in pretty low light so that could work.

Mainly, my point was to just wait it out and let things settle, seems like you are confident in that. People have 500 ways of dealing with algae but unless you have way too much light, you usually don't have to be super proactive or start over. Obviously, your light is pretty "catered" to this tank, in the style you are doing it so I see this turning around. 

Sorry for the long post, I just think it won't be hard recover and though I have had my algae free tanks, I usually expect about 1-3 months what you are going through on this type of setup (or plant choice more so). 

Anyway, good luck.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> I have gone as low as 5 hours, while still getting growth. Or you can try the mesh screen over your light with a regular photoperiod. I have grown HC in pretty low light so that could work.
> 
> Mainly, my point was to just wait it out and let things settle, seems like you are confident in that. People have 500 ways of dealing with algae but unless you have way too much light, you usually don't have to be super proactive or start over. Obviously, your light is pretty "catered" to this tank, in the style you are doing it so I see this turning around.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comment.
I definitely prefer reducing photoperiod over reducing intensity, atleast in this specific case. 
The light was "designed" for this tank, and I find that any less light makes my HC too leggy. 

I like to be as proactive as possible, but I don't wan't to go overboard. 

I am, sadly, on my third or fourth attempt at an iwagumi in this tank, so patience runs thin at this point in the endeavor, but the benefit may be that I have dealt with nearly identical situations three times already. 
As long as I can protect the carpet, and make sure it reproduces faster than it dies, then it is a win. 

Never anything wrong with a long post, thanks for showing interest!
That is the only thing that makes keeping a Journal enjoyable!


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

How about an update?


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

geniusdudekiran said:


> how about an update?


+1!!


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## TRIG (Jul 2, 2011)

+2!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Sorry ive been preoccupied with my other tank, keep losing more and more shrimp in that tank... 
The mini m is doing so so, algae keeps killing more stauro and hc but the hc is keeping up.
I'll take some pics when I get home today.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

^^^That was days ago  lol


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> ^^^That was days ago  lol


Hah did my trim and water change today but forgot to take pics again...


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Chlorophile said:


> Hah did my trim and water change today but forgot to take pics again...


Waaaaaa


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Smaller tanks are often hard to get the right amount of CO2 into them.

Ask your self why that is.

Hint, it has a lot to do with evaporation.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Smaller tanks are often hard to get the right amount of CO2 into them.
> 
> Ask your self why that is.
> 
> Hint, it has a lot to do with evaporation.


Hmm.. that is an intersting concept but I have no idea how evap would play any part in co2 levels. 

Enlighten me?


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

^^^Likewise


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> Smaller tanks are often hard to get the right amount of CO2 into them.
> 
> Ask your self why that is.
> 
> Hint, it has a lot to do with evaporation.


hypothesizing here, tell me if im getting it right:
-if water evaporates more from smaller tanks, then CO2 would be likely to outgas more, since evaporation of H2O and outgasing of CO2 are both the process of overcoming intermolecular forces. 
its easier for CO2 since it forms dipole-dipole with water, where as water forms H-bonds which are the strongest case of dipole-dipole.
this means that increased evaporation by a factor of 10 would be associated with increased outgasing of a factor greater than 10.
-water evaporation also lowers the surface level, so the light needs to penetrate less, and as a result the light the plants receive is more intense. increased light means increased need for CO2. as the water level fluctuates so do CO2 needs, which plants take time to adapt to (and algae takes less time to adapt to).

was i at least close?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> hypothesizing here, tell me if im getting it right:
> -if water evaporates more from smaller tanks, then CO2 would be likely to outgas more, since evaporation of H2O and outgasing of CO2 are both the process of overcoming intermolecular forces.
> its easier for CO2 since it forms dipole-dipole with water, where as water forms H-bonds which are the strongest case of dipole-dipole.
> this means that increased evaporation by a factor of 10 would be associated with increased outgasing of a factor greater than 10.
> ...


Hmm... Sounds convincing!


I'd question if it is the case in my tank though as my co2 is definitely higher than any livestock beyond snails should be able to survive.


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## muntwo (Sep 6, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Smaller tanks are often hard to get the right amount of CO2 into them.
> 
> Ask your self why that is.
> 
> Hint, it has a lot to do with evaporation.


smaller tank = greater impact of evaporation on water volume (as a % of total volume)

decreasing water volume with the same rate of CO2 input = increasing CO2 concentration in the water

you make a very good point, plantbrain.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

muntwo said:


> smaller tank = greater impact of evaporation on water volume (as a % of total volume)
> 
> decreasing water volume with the same rate of CO2 input = increasing CO2 concentration in the water
> 
> you make a very good point, plantbrain.


I don't think that is correct, and if it is correct then that makes no sense, at least as far as I interpret what Tom said. 
I assumed he meant it is hard to get enough co2.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

well all fluctuations in CO2 are stressful for the plants. however, i feel that fluctuations downward are more stressful then fluctuations upward, assuming the fluctuations are of equal magnitude.


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## muntwo (Sep 6, 2011)

Chlorophile said:


> I don't think that is correct, and if it is correct then that makes no sense, at least as far as I interpret what Tom said.
> I assumed he meant it is hard to get enough co2.


Tom said, "Smaller tanks are often hard to get the _right_ amount of CO2 into them.", but didn't mention getting too much or too little CO2 dissolved in the water.

Try to think about it this way - if we move away from dissolved gases and use Flourish Excel for example: You add the recommended dose to your 2 L nano tank, but over the next few days, you lose 1 L of water (50%) due to evaporation. Since only water is leaving your tank and is Excel staying in solution and assuming your plants haven't taken up most of these added nutrients yet, you've nearly doubled your concentration of Excel. However, evaporation of 1 L in your 80 gallon tank only represents a 0.3% change in water volume and will not impact your Excel concentration significantly.

Now, if we go back to the CO2 example - if you have a constant flow of CO2 into your 2 L tank and the right concentration of CO2 per L of water, but then lose 1 L of water, then you've doubled your CO2 concentration (assuming all of the CO2 gets dissolved in the water) and probably altered the pH of the water.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

What changes/precautions did you make when you transitioned from DSM? Co2 is only going to do so much since you have low plant mass and you would then have a plant that is going to slow up as well once submersed. Keeping the tank incredibly clean organically and beefing up the biofilter is key.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

muntwo said:


> Tom said, "Smaller tanks are often hard to get the _right_ amount of CO2 into them.", but didn't mention getting too much or too little CO2 dissolved in the water.
> 
> Try to think about it this way - if we move away from dissolved gases and use Flourish Excel for example: You add the recommended dose to your 2 L nano tank, but over the next few days, you lose 1 L of water (50%) due to evaporation. Since only water is leaving your tank and is Excel staying in solution and assuming your plants haven't taken up most of these added nutrients yet, you've nearly doubled your concentration of Excel. However, evaporation of 1 L in your 80 gallon tank only represents a 0.3% change in water volume and will not impact your Excel concentration significantly.
> 
> Now, if we go back to the CO2 example - if you have a constant flow of CO2 into your 2 L tank and the right concentration of CO2 per L of water, but then lose 1 L of water, then you've doubled your CO2 concentration (assuming all of the CO2 gets dissolved in the water) and probably altered the pH of the water.


Co2 and excel are not even in the same world as each other. 

As was said earlier, I believe that co2 bonds to individual water molecules, and since it is a gas I am sure it has no problem leaving with an evaporating water molecule. 
The chemicals in excel are solids, and wouldn't evaporate.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

houseofcards said:


> What changes/precautions did you make when you transitioned from DSM? Co2 is only going to do so much since you have low plant mass and you would then have a plant that is going to slow up as well once submersed. Keeping the tank incredibly clean organically and beefing up the biofilter is key.



That was probably the cause, I think.

There was a good bit of dead stuff from the dry start. 
The algae is still there but it is weakened every day, I don't do anything to fight it now that the HC is growing so fast. 


_The thing that really blows my mind about this type of algae is that everything it touches turns grey within 12 hours and dies except the stems and roots... It's like it feeds off the plant but leaves the part it knows will create more victims for it.
_

I had 2 stems of S. Repens that were doing fine, hadn't been attacked, completely healthy and growing fast considering they are s. Repens.

That morning I noticed a piece of HC near the S. Repens had a small strand of the grey algae(looks kind of like a stretched out piece of wool, very thin strands clumped together, similar texture too) and I decided when I got home I would trim that hc and pull it out with tweezers but I had to leave so I couldn't do it right then.

I got home not 8 hours later and there was a grey transparent spot on the Repens! I trimmed that leaf but it was too late, it's like a virus or something.
Every leaf on the stem self destructed with the weird fuzz and died, I had to cut it to just stem..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Quick pic, can you tell I'm literally walking out the door?


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## muntwo (Sep 6, 2011)

No need to blow up at me - I'm only trying to help. If you don't want my suggestions, I won't post on your thread.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

muntwo said:


> Tom said, "Smaller tanks are often hard to get the _right_ amount of CO2 into them.", but didn't mention getting too much or too little CO2 dissolved in the water.
> 
> Try to think about it this way - if we move away from dissolved gases and use Flourish Excel for example: You add the recommended dose to your 2 L nano tank, but over the next few days, you lose 1 L of water (50%) due to evaporation. Since only water is leaving your tank and is Excel staying in solution and assuming your plants haven't taken up most of these added nutrients yet, you've nearly doubled your concentration of Excel. However, evaporation of 1 L in your 80 gallon tank only represents a 0.3% change in water volume and will not impact your Excel concentration significantly.
> 
> Now, if we go back to the CO2 example - if you have a constant flow of CO2 into your 2 L tank and the right concentration of CO2 per L of water, but then lose 1 L of water, then you've doubled your CO2 concentration (assuming all of the CO2 gets dissolved in the water) and probably altered the pH of the water.


excel and CO2 are both sources of carbon. their chemical properties are very different.
glutaraldehyde is CHOCH2CH2CH2CHO, and is a liquid at room temperature. as a liquid, it is miscible in water (can be dissolved in any proportion). meaning the dissolution of gultaraldehyde with water is a one-way reaction, not an equilibrium:
CHOCH2CH2CH2CHO(l) => CHOCH2CH2CH2CHO(aq)
thus evaporating water will concentrate the solution.

CO2 is not miscible with water. it is only mildly soluble, and will exist at an equilibrium with its dissolved hydrated form H2CO3 (carbonic acid).
CO2(g) + H2O(l) <=> H2CO3
as water evaporates, less and less of a reactant (H2O) is left in the system. according to LeChatliers principle, the equilibrium will shift create more reactants, counteracting the change. this means CO2 will come out of solution.
additionally, conditions for increased evaporation are conditions for increased outgas.


Chlorophile said:


> Co2 and excel are not even in the same world as each other.
> 
> As was said earlier, I believe that co2 bonds to individual water molecules, and since it is a gas I am sure it has no problem leaving with an evaporating water molecule.
> The chemicals in excel are solids, and wouldn't evaporate.


actually it does have a problem leaving with a water molecule. evaporation is the process of changing to gas phase. in the gas phase, there are 0 (well almost 0) intermolecular reactions taking place. evaporation is the process of breaking those forces (breaking the dipole-dipole attraction (hydrogen bonds are a kind of dipole-dipole) between a group of water molecules). these attractions are weak (much weaker then covalent bonds) and break and reform all the time. the majority of CO2 in a closed system would exist as a gas at STP.
gultaraldehyde is a liquid at room temperature. it doesnt evaporate as easily as water, however (boils at 186C).


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> excel and CO2 are both sources of carbon. their chemical properties are very different.
> glutaraldehyde is CHOCH2CH2CH2CHO, and is a liquid at room temperature. as a liquid, it is miscible in water (can be dissolved in any proportion). meaning the dissolution of gultaraldehyde with water is a one-way reaction, not an equilibrium:
> CHOCH2CH2CH2CHO(l) => CHOCH2CH2CH2CHO(aq)
> thus evaporating water will concentrate the solution.
> ...


Ooo okay that makes more sense. 

I just assumed glut was a solid dissolved in a solvent.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

muntwo said:


> smaller tank = greater impact of evaporation on water volume (as a % of total volume)
> 
> decreasing water volume with the same rate of CO2 input = increasing CO2 concentration in the water
> 
> you make a very good point, plantbrain.


You got it. 

Marko, wow, interesting idea 
My questions tend to be much more basic.

A change of 1/2 inch in the water level with a HOB filter greatly increased the CO2 outgassing making nearly impossible to maintain sufficient CO2.

I noticed this quite a bit on my nano rack I had about 6 years ago.
The 4 tanks I kept very close tabs on and refilled daily did well, the others? 
Not so well.

This is much like mame bonsai, you need to tend and water them often, unlike larger forms. Same with smaller aquariums.

Since the filters are almost always HOB, the outflow is designed to maximize O2 and degas CO2, so unless that rate is stable, there is no way to keep the CO2 stable. Even in humid environments, you will lose a lot of water to evaporation, in warmer and drier climates, this will be even more.

Larger tanks have more buffer for nutrients, growth distances, CO2, flow, filtration etc.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Chlorophile said:


> Quick pic, can you tell I'm literally walking out the door?


Since it's a canister, this likely does not apply

But, the grey slime is a function of poor growth........I've seen it and it was due to CO2 and a leak.

I'd do every other day water changes, 60-80%.

Purigen/carbon etc.........

Add ferts back after each water change.

Later, 2x a week water change, it's a small tank, might tank only 5 mins.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Since it's a canister, this likely does not apply
> 
> But, the grey slime is a function of poor growth........I've seen it and it was due to CO2 and a leak.
> 
> ...



I saw a reduction in the algae and a boost in growth when I replaced my bulb. 

Have tapered back to weekly water changes at this point but I was doing them every other day ~45% when the algae seemed like it might beat out the HC. 

Thanks for the advice!
Also it does make sense that if your injection of co2 is constant and water level decreases PPM of co2 would increase, sorry muntwo if you thought I was blasting you, good job getting it right!




The downside to having such a steep slope is that the little patches in HC that aren't filled in show up in pictures much more, almost like viewing top down. 

I have this plant sold to me as Rotala Indica, I have no idea if that is what it really is because I can't find any Rotala Indica that looks like this. 
It doesn't look like Rotundifolia either. 

It's currently planted in the Mini M because it has very small leaf structure and looks OK behind the main rock.. 

I'll get some pics up later to see if I can get an ID.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

The algae has been slain, or probably more realistically, it went away, as is the way of most algae in tanks with EI dosing and some decent housekeeping. 

No hint of blackbeard anywhere, no hint of staghorn, no filamentous algae, no green dust, no green spot, no diatoms...

I never get diatoms, must be my water. 


Here are a few photos - 
The tank is subject to my boredom as I don't really care for the rock layout, I have used these stones three or four times already in Iwagumi, so some Rotala Indica went in to the tank.
Thinking about putting some Rotundifolia in their too if I get bored.

Trying to get the S. Repens to grow out to surround the main stone and cradle the upper hill. 



















HC Climbing up that rock.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Looks great! Am I just crazy or has the rock moved farther to the right?

It's so cool to see my plants in someone else's aquascape :hihi:. Once that Staurogyne takes off, they're no stopping it. Such an underestimated plant...


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> Looks great! Am I just crazy or has the rock moved farther to the right?
> 
> It's so cool to see my plants in someone else's aquascape :hihi:. Once that Staurogyne takes off, they're no stopping it. Such an underestimated plant...


Some of the lower left rock is now covered with hc so yea it probably has less of a central presence 

I really hate these rocks.
I'm going to rescape at the end of summer I think


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

I went 2 weeks without trimming and just finished trimming the HC just now....
Woah that was a ton of HC. 
Probably about 1 cup full. 

Also trimmed the S. Repens and moved it around a bit, re-planted the rotala and added HM. 
Will get pics in a couple days when it has all straightened out towards the light.

My rotala does not know how the heck to grow straight up..


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

if you have a lot of light, it will try and go horizontal and that horizontal growth will then make vertical side shoots.
if you want a straight-up plant, try bacopa.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> if you have a lot of light, it will try and go horizontal and that horizontal growth will then make vertical side shoots.
> if you want a straight-up plant, try bacopa.


What kind?

I have bacopa caroliniana but its leaves are too large and its stem is very thick, it would throw off the scale of the Mini M big time.

I will be able to make Rotala do what I want, I just need time to propagate it more and train it.


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## mcqueenesq (Aug 29, 2011)

I know it's been said by everyone before, but great job on the tank! I'm trying the HC sprinkle method now based on your experience.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

mcqueenesq said:


> I know it's been said by everyone before, but great job on the tank! I'm trying the HC sprinkle method now based on your experience.


Good luck! Just keep the humidity up!


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## TRIG (Jul 2, 2011)

How's the tank looking? Are you still considering rescaping it?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

TRIG said:


> How's the tank looking? Are you still considering rescaping it?


Tanks looking pretty muggy. 
Diatoms (yea I know, I said I never have diatoms) are destroying everything and making the tank look pretty nasty.


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## limeslide (Jan 27, 2010)

Wow, interesting tank! I love it.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'm still under attack from diatoms!
DIE DIE DIE.




I am afraid too much HC root will die, and sub-surface stem material, etc, and it will just be an algae disaster from hear on out... 

Very scary thoughts. 





I moved around my Stauro, will get pics of it if the Diatoms ever go away.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

Have you added any amano's?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

No, I really need to get some, I have one in another tank I might move. 
In a couple weeks I am going to put about 20 PFR's in this tank which should help.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

The Amano's will devour the diatoms and it won't be an issue. If you put 5-6 in there they should be gone by the 2nd day. 

The PFR's won't eat the algae as well as the Amano - many of the more decorative shrimp actually eat biofilm on surfaces, rather than algae (at least with CRS, no personal experience with PFR here). If you got em on hand I'd just do some manual removal of the algae, then add in the Amano's til you get the PFR's so the problem is contained.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

*Got phosphates?*

No offense man, but your local water must suck, lol.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> *Got phosphates?*
> 
> No offense man, but your local water must suck, lol.


Actually, I see phosphate deficiency pretty often and have upped my P dosing because of it. 
Maybe you meant silicates?

My local water is pretty good, TDS is often <100 and tests very low for toxic chemicals, lead, etc.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Francis Xavier said:


> The Amano's will devour the diatoms and it won't be an issue. If you put 5-6 in there they should be gone by the 2nd day.
> 
> The PFR's won't eat the algae as well as the Amano - many of the more decorative shrimp actually eat biofilm on surfaces, rather than algae (at least with CRS, no personal experience with PFR here). If you got em on hand I'd just do some manual removal of the algae, then add in the Amano's til you get the PFR's so the problem is contained.


Yea I've noticed that...
I only have 1 amano, at any rate, the diatoms are clearing up and my HC has such a strong root base it is coming back with a vengeance. 

I've increased the light by 1 hour and the co2 is still quite high, and I'm dosing about 1/4th more than usual. 
No black beard, mild green dust, improved growth.. so far so good. 

I have encountered a new algae I have never seen before though!
It is green, it forms little spongy balls on things, and when you remove it and squish it it is very gelatinous!
It comes off incredibly easy, and it will opt to grow on rocks or on the glass but only on places where I missed some diatom or GDA.
I am assuming it can't grip the glass with how much flow I have but would probably do so in lower flow tanks. 

I'll see if I can get a good picture.


P.S. Frank, how do you get your ADA lily pipe hoses clean? 
I scrub mine with the spring brush bi-monthly but they are taking on an electric yellow hue!
I don't really get it..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Tank has been torn down!

Driftwood from Tom arrived today, deciding what plants to use. 

Should I start a new journal or update this one?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> Tank has been torn down!
> 
> Driftwood from Tom arrived today, deciding what plants to use.
> 
> Should I start a new journal or update this one?


I like new journals for rescapes personally. I hate going through a bunch of pages only to have things change up.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Whoa, can we get an update?


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## robnixxo (Aug 17, 2012)

Chlorophile said:


> So over the holidays I built a ADA style cabinet for a Mini M and then got home and saw how poopy my mini M actually looked and decided to do a complete overhaul and make a Journal for it.
> 
> Unfortunately I have no pics of the build for the cabinet, but I'll document from here on out.
> 
> ...


I'm new to this game. What are those two clear tubes for?


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Inlet and outlet for the filter, Noob!


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## robnixxo (Aug 17, 2012)

crazydaz said:


> Inlet and outlet for the filter, Noob!


ok, for like a canister filter? Is that just normal airline tubing that's been heated?


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

robnixxo said:


> ok, for like a canister filter? Is that just normal airline tubing that's been heated?


They are for a canister filter however they are usually made of glass or acrylic.


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## rodahl (Dec 1, 2014)

Personally, I like the top position for the stone.


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