# Fixing Vintage Fish Tank



## DestinyJ (Apr 23, 2017)

I went to a thrift store recently and found a metal frame, slate bottom tank for only 5 dollars! I had to buy it even though the glass was super scratched. I'm planning to call the glass shop in town and see if the scratches can be buffed out or if I will need to replace the glass and of course the pricing on that. I've never even re-sealed a tank so replacing the glass completely will be an adventure. If anyone has some good threads or tips on fixing up a vintage tank, please tell.

Its a 20 gallon high but the dimensioms are a tiny bit different than standard now. Sorry for the bad picture, I broke the front and back camera on my phone so cheap tablet pic it is.









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk


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## SBPyro (Dec 15, 2009)

There are a couple of good threads on this.
I've ended up with multiple tanks that need to be resealed.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/74575-restoring-vintage-metal-frame-tank.html


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## Esteban Colberto (Mar 7, 2017)

Hey that's cool looking as well as the cart on which it's resting. Very cool. Subbing.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

I've got a bunch of the MetalFrame tanks. I collect and refurb them. Many of mine had broken glass so I took the entire thing apart and removed all the asphaltum. As an aside, I was talking about the asphaltum with my ink supplier (offset printing) and it is actually a linseed oil product not petroleum.
Anyhow, patience is required. Along with a putty knife and a heat gun. I melted the tar and slowly put the knife in to separate the glass. It takes a while. There is a sequence to removing the glass. First the slate must come out. Then the side panels and finally the front. Installation is the reverse of removal. I bought tanks from the $1 per gallon sale and used that as replacement. It's cheaper but you do have to take apart the tank. The good thing is the glass can be a bit smaller than the frame itself. Mine has about a 3/16" gap between the panels but since it is not structural like a glass tank it is not a problem.

I tried a bunch of different solvents to get the residual tar off with varying degrees of success. Mineral spirits. Denatured alcohol. Naptha. Among others. Toluene works about the best but it requires care in handling. 

Putting it back together is not that hard. I used Dow Corning 795. It is what Disney uses on their tanks and rock work and it sticks to slate. 
That is important. It sticks to slate. Other silicones like the GE stuff will not stick to slate.
Lay down a good thick bed of the silicone and press the glass into it. You need a decent bed or the stainless will show through when you're finished. After all the panels were in and the slate I then go along the interior corners and give them a seal same as you would for an all glass reseal. 

The biggest tip I can give you is to have patience. It will be rewarded.

I've got about 15 of those tanks and love them. Two of the 55s are in the house and I've never had to reseal them. One did leak for a couple of weeks and it is a dirt tank. As the dirt filled the voids it stopped leaking. Funny thing is when I set it up outside to test it never leaked.

I've got a 20 tall I am currently toying with for my son and since the glass is in decent shape I've scraped out the silicone put in by others and all I will do to that tank is reseal as if it were all glass but I will use the 795. First I am going to hit the tar with a heat gun. I just want to smooth out the tar I can see on the outside of the tank. I do not expect that to really hold water though. More for the aesthetics. The 795 on the inside will do all the water sealing for me.

One thing I've learned is if the glass isn't broke, and I can live with moderate scratches that may or may not be noticeable I will just hit the inside with the 795. Alas most of the tanks I've been given or collected had broken panels. So a total tear down was needed.


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## Esteban Colberto (Mar 7, 2017)

Damn @GraphicGr8s that's a guide right there. Talk about some good information. How about some images?


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Esteban Colberto said:


> Damn @GraphicGr8s that's a guide right there. Talk about some good information. How about some images?


It took a lot of research to get the right stuff to do it. That's my story. The truth is I fell into the right silicone in another conversation I was having at our society meeting and that led me down to the silicone to use. The info on the old asphaltum was an accidental conversation with the guy that makes our inks and he is quite knowledgeable on the material. And that stemmed from talking about what we did over a Christmas break.
A lot of the knowledge of getting the tank apart was just by looking first, taking my time, trying different things and noting what didn't work. It helped that in the first tank I did I was trashing the glass anyway. That led to how it was put together. And that is an important point to note. The glass has to go in in a certain order.
Another thing I did was to make sure I never put too much pressure on the stainless. I am not good at metalwork so trying to straighten out any kink I could have put in would have been my downfall. I'll say this again. The MOST IMPORTANT THING ON REFURBING THESE TANKS IS PATIENCE.


Maybe on my next refurb I'll take some. I've got some shots of the before but that's about it. Maybe a video of some of the highlights if I am up to it. 
It takes me a while to do the teardowns because I have limited time slots. I do the work outside because of the potential fumes and right now it's darn hot and humid down here. And I can think of many other things that need my attention to keep the ball and chain off my back.
Even the 20 I am working on now has been scraped of the old silicone and is awaiting my to get the want to finish it. 


One thing I did forget to add to my post is I generally take some sandpaper and smooth out the slate a bit. I sand it dry and just enough so it's smooth and all the tar is off it. That of course is on a complete tear down. A reseal the slate is left alone.

Never, ever be afraid to ask questions. You may not get the right answers the first time. Or maybe not even the 30th time. But you'll never know if you don't start with that first question.

Here is the thread I did put together a while ago.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/753737-four-more-metaframe-tanks.html


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Besides the fact that nobody would eat it.. Isn't the orig toxic (most tar is) or contains heavy metals??

Something nagging in the back of my head about that..
anyways GREAT write-up
Just a bit more..



> The hot water trick works if the tar is still somewhat pliable. After 40+ years though, most of the tar in the stainless tanks around is pretty dried out.
> 
> The Innes formula for the black goop/tar is equal parts Gilsonite bitumen (check the bay), thickened linseed oil, and heat. Thickened linseed oil isn't "boiled linseed oil". It's raw linseed/flaxseed oil that has been cooked down by about 25%. A VERY smoky, messy, stinky project to thicken linseed oil, and only do it OUTDOORS, in a disposable pot.
> 
> ...


http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/10764-old-frame-aquarium-leak/

The mineral Gilsonite is categorized as a solvable material in oil solutions such as CS2 or TCE (Trichloroethylene).

Maybe it was the solvent for it...


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> Besides the fact that nobody would eat it.. Isn't the orig toxic (most tar is) or contains heavy metals??
> 
> Something nagging in the back of my head about that..
> anyways GREAT write-up
> ...


If I'm not mistaken William T. Innes talked about sealing old metal framed aquariums in his old book, and the 'asphaltum' is a linseed oil based product. But the problems with what he was recommending for a DIY sealant based on this linseed goop, in his book: Exotic Aquarium Fish, was he was saying to add litharge ( white Lead ) or red Lead as a filler for the sealant, and that stuff is pure Lead oxides and is toxic as all get out.

So there's a chance you might encounter a DIY fixed classic with the mixture from Innes' old book. Remember that this book was written in the 1930's and Asbestos and Lead weren't considered as toxic then as they are now.

BTW the OP should NOT use that wheeled cart for the tank stand, it's far too weak for the weight of the aquarium. Please get a real 20H stand or build a sturdy one from plywood and 2X4's, if you have the skills.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Besides the fact that nobody would eat it.. Isn't the orig toxic (most tar is) or contains heavy metals??
> 
> Something nagging in the back of my head about that..
> anyways GREAT write-up
> ...


It could be toxic. At least the fumes from melting with the heat gun. That is why I do it outside. It also could contain lead. I bet most of us that are in the late forties early fifties have been exposed to more lead and asbestos than we care to admit. And most of us are (almost) just fine.

That right up isn't too bad. If I have the slate I am going to use it. I am not putting a piece of glass on the bottom then covering it with the slate. The DC 795 sticks to slate fine. It was made for it. (Sort of)

Having taken apart a few of these tanks that "tar" can still be pliable. No. Soaking it in warm water won't work generally. It needs to be heated in a low oven for a longer time. It will melt and seal. Hard part is knowing the right length of time so in my opinion it's not worth it. If the glass is OK as it is in my 20 I am doing I am leaving it and just using the 795 to seal same as I would do for a glass tank. 

Using the linseed stuff you would put a bedding onto the stainless not the glass as he stated. You lay the glass into the bed while it is still hot and pliable and press the glass firmly into the bed to get a good seal. Let it cool a touch and them use a blade to remove excess and then a heat gun or alcohol lamp to finish the surface of the tar that shows so it is nice and smooth. 

Way too much work for no real benefit.

As an aside:

Trichloroethylene was an anesthetic and as an inhaled obstetrical analgesic in millions of patients.


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## Oughtsix (Apr 8, 2011)

My first Aquarium was a 20 gal metal cornered aquarium that my middle school science teacher gave me because it had a broken pane of glass. I think I was about 12 yo at the time. Mine had an opaque tempered glass bottom if I recall but otherwise looked identical.

I used my fathers propane torch to remove the broken glass... but a heat gun would be better. At that time, circa 1980, they hadn't invented toxic substances and fumes yet so I had nothing to worry about. I used the regular silicone sealer of the time and the repair lasted for years... even though the replacement glass was a bit thinner than the original.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Oughtsix said:


> My first Aquarium was a 20 gal metal cornered aquarium that my middle school science teacher gave me because it had a broken pane of glass. I think I was about 12 yo at the time. Mine had an opaque tempered glass bottom if I recall but otherwise looked identical.
> 
> I used my fathers propane torch to remove the broken glass... but a heat gun would be better. At that time, circa 1980, *they hadn't invented toxic substances and fumes yet so I had nothing to worry about*. I used the regular silicone sealer of the time and the repair lasted for years... even though the replacement glass was a bit thinner than the original.


I just love that. :laugh2:

About as good as the "State of California has found this to be cancerous. Well I am OK then since I am not in California."

(No. No sarcasm intended. It was funny)


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

*OOAK Jewel Restoration*

I am attempting to remove the bulb edge glass from a one of a kind 1920's Jewel Aquarium that I acquired earlier in the year. I need to remove the glass intact as it is irreplaceable. One end piece had already come loose from the frame on its own but the remaining pieces defy my efforts to remove them. I've tried every solvent mentioned that would dissolve asphaltum but nothing touches it. I know Jewel sold their own aquarium cement so it may not be asphaltum. I've tried: Acetone, Mineral Spirits, Toluene, Tetrachloromethylene, Methyl Chloride, and Xylene to no avail. I tried a heat gun with a 500 degree and 1000 degree setting and the 1000 degree just started to melt tiny bits of it but the major portion of the piece I tested remained brittle. I'm afraid to use the higher setting or a torch for fear of cracking the glass. I've been told a wire saw or PVC saw may be able to cut it out but I'm not sure how to do this but it will be my next try. If I could put it in an oven and let the whole thing reach around 350 degrees I might be able to soften everything enough to remove the glass but the tank is too large to fit in a standard sized oven.
I need to remove the glass to have the corrosion on the cast metal frame bead blasted off.
Any help would be apprectiated.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

davrx said:


> I am attempting to remove the bulb edge glass from a one of a kind 1920's Jewel Aquarium that I acquired earlier in the year. I need to remove the glass intact as it is irreplaceable. One end piece had already come loose from the frame on its own but the remaining pieces defy my efforts to remove them. I've tried every solvent mentioned that would dissolve asphaltum but nothing touches it. I know Jewel sold their own aquarium cement so it may not be asphaltum. I've tried: Acetone, Mineral Spirits, Toluene, Tetrachloromethylene, Methyl Chloride, and Xylene to no avail. I tried a heat gun with a 500 degree and 1000 degree setting and the 1000 degree just started to melt tiny bits of it but the major portion of the piece I tested remained brittle. I'm afraid to use the higher setting or a torch for fear of cracking the glass. I've been told a wire saw or PVC saw may be able to cut it out but I'm not sure how to do this but it will be my next try. If I could put it in an oven and let the whole thing reach around 350 degrees I might be able to soften everything enough to remove the glass but the tank is too large to fit in a standard sized oven.
> I need to remove the glass to have the corrosion on the cast metal frame bead blasted off.
> Any help would be apprectiated.


Should have started a new thread on that. Might have gotten more response.

Forgetting that however I would say your best bet would be to look into finding someone that specializes in that era. Maybe a restoration expert or an appraiser. They might be able to tell you the material and how to remove it. Also give advise on what NOT to do.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

I’ve already consulted with a collector with experience with these Jewel tanks but he has other people do the restoration for him. He told me that his “metal guy” suggested I use a wire saw. I’m going to get one today but still not sure how to use it with this application. 
The cement is tan colored with white particles throughout and the surface is glazed black.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Normally screwing w/ antiques doesn't necessarily increase their value...

https://theaquaticgazette.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/jewel-aquarium-co/

then again..
An incredible Jewel "Seahorse" Aquarium* ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

As a guess.. white lead putty... Or Scotts cement.. 

https://books.google.com/books?id=J...v=onepage&q=white lead putty aquarium&f=false


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

It’s funny, the first link, from the aquarium gazette is some material I provided the gazette several years ago, my name is at the bottom in the credits. Also the link to the Ebay “Jewel” hexagon is one of the 1990’s reproductions. If I remember correctly, the seahorse legs on this particular tank are solid whereas the original 20’s - 30’s tanks had hollow seahorse legs. I’ve been offered an original of one of these but it was beyond my means. Also the glass shelf on the original stand has a pattern in it rather than just plain glass.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

As far as restoration of antiques, you don’t see collectors leaving cars in their original rusted condition. It depends on the antique, wooden furniture, you’re right, it’s more valuable with its original finish.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

It might be Scott’s cement or lead putty but I would think that aquarium cement would have advanced from 1856 when that book was published and the late 1920’s when my tank was made.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

davrx said:


> It might be Scott’s cement or lead putty but I would think that aquarium cement would have advanced from 1856 when that book was published and the late 1920’s when my tank was made.


Teaser...



> *Jewel Aquariums*
> My grandfather and my father owned the company from 1953 until it was sold in 1985. I worked there during summer school vacations until 1979. One of the worst jobs was making that special cement that was used to glaze the tanks, which were welded angle iron. The cement was supposed to last virtually forever thanks to a secret ingredient, linseed oil. It was made in a small shed in the alley behind the plant on West Armitage. That shed had a tin roof and would get to be well over 100 degrees on summer days, which was perfect for the cement but not much fun.
> 
> We had one of the most beautiful tanks ever made in our home. It was made in the earlier years of the company when it was located on North Rockwell St. After my dad died, my mother sold that tank for a pittance. Whoever has it today is very lucky.


Antique Aquarium? - The Reef Tank


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

I saw this quote many years ago but had forgotten about it until now when you posted it.
Since there's a good possibility that the cement in my tank has a linseed oil base, I looked for something to dissolve linseed oil based cements/caulks.
I found a reference to using a 50/50 mixture of linseed oil and household bleach to soften old window putty which was a linseed oil based caulk.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Well that said.. here is another possibility.. based on color..


> Niche or declining uses
> A mixture of PbO with glycerine sets to a hard, waterproof cement that has been used to join the flat glass sides and bottoms of aquariums, and was also once used to seal glass panels in window frames. It is a component of lead paints.


REd, white, yellow lead seemed to all be used to some extent as a water proof sealant....

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Lead_monoxide#section=Melting-Point


> Insoluble in water, alcohol; soluble in acetic acid, dilute nitric acid, warm soln of fixed alkali hydroxides


...

none of the above solvents should attack the glass.. though I'd probably avoid the fixed alkali hydroxides (Drano)
..

suggest taking a small piece and seeing if any of those dilute acids attack it..
hmmm.. avoid nitric as well. Dilute shouldn't be a problem but hot concentrated will etch glass.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/1-Quart-...9194&wl11=online&wl12=723815742&wl13=&veh=sem

Glacial acetic acid is pretty nasty.. but I bet that will do the trick.. may need to dilute it.. Doubt if vinegar is strong enough..



> Glass, both Polyethylenes and Polypropylene are resistant to all grades of Acetic Acid.


https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/storing-28-acetic-acid-glass-or-plastic.127035/

Just spit-balling here..

history.. See 33610...
https://books.google.com/books?id=L...cetic acid lead aquarium seams cement&f=false


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

jeffkrol said:


> Well that said.. here is another possibility.. based on color..
> 
> REd, white, yellow lead seemed to all be used to some extent as a water proof sealant....
> 
> ...


Wow, I am impressed with all the information you are providing me. 
Do you have a chemistry background? I'm a pharmacist but it's been about 40 years since I had my inorganic chemistry classes so it's not fresh in my mind anymore.
Well if lead is the major component then I have been exposing myself to it as I have chiseled some of the cement away and I may have exposed myself to lead fumes when I tried the heat gun on it! 
I don't believe this is asphaltum as it is insoluable in any solvents that would dissolve or soften any petroleum based product and even under 1000 degree heat it still failed to melt. If concentrated acetic acid would dissolve it then that would be nice but it would also corrode the cast iron parts of the tank so I'm not going to attempt that. What I may do is get a lead tester used to test for lead paint and see if I can verify lead in this Jewel cement. 
I think I'm going to try a fine tooth, thin saw blade and see if I can saw the cement away without putting too much stress on the glass. I'll need to get a mask to protect myself from anymore lead exposure if this is what's in the cement.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

GraphicGr8s said:


> Should have started a new thread on that. Might have gotten more response.
> 
> Forgetting that however I would say your best bet would be to look into finding someone that specializes in that era. Maybe a restoration expert or an appraiser. They might be able to tell you the material and how to remove it. Also give advise on what NOT to do.


I hope I'm not being too forward but I think it's a good idea to have this as part of your thread since anyone attempting to restore an antique or vintage aquarium may run across different types of aquarium cement. Yours is asphaltum if I'm not mistaken but it's looking like mine is some nasty lead based cement.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Perhaps moving into a grey area with trial needed but when faced with wanting to move things like this that solvent doesn't touch, I now find a new tool is working. Got any way to get hands on an oscillating power tool? They seem to be able to take such tiny hits on things that they work even though they are not cutting. When looking at taking mortar off things that I want absolute minimum damage like a chisel might do, the oscillating gets it done. I'm also finding good for speeding the removal of glass from metal window frames. I used to use haet and torches but it was slow and also really easy to get too much heat but a careful touch with the new tool is working wonders. 
Might be worth a try as the tool can be pretty cheap compared to the time saved. This is one that I use due to having the air handy but there are also electrically powered for somewhat reasonable prices. 
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-22-Piece-1-Speed-90-PSI-Air-Oscillating-Tool-Kit/50297917


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

PlantedRich said:


> Perhaps moving into a grey area with trial needed but when faced with wanting to move things like this that solvent doesn't touch, I now find a new tool is working. Got any way to get hands on an oscillating power tool? They seem to be able to take such tiny hits on things that they work even though they are not cutting. When looking at taking mortar off things that I want absolute minimum damage like a chisel might do, the oscillating gets it done. I'm also finding good for speeding the removal of glass from metal window frames. I used to use haet and torches but it was slow and also really easy to get too much heat but a careful touch with the new tool is working wonders.
> Might be worth a try as the tool can be pretty cheap compared to the time saved. This is one that I use due to having the air handy but there are also electrically powered for somewhat reasonable prices.
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-22-Piece-1-Speed-90-PSI-Air-Oscillating-Tool-Kit/50297917


Thanks for this information. I've already tried a WEN Rotary Tool with a flex shaft and tiny diamond burrs but this didn't work. 
I'm going to try a thin, fine toothed, hack saw blade next.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

jeffkrol said:


> Teaser...
> 
> 
> 
> Antique Aquarium? - The Reef Tank


This guy is right on with the address of the original plant. I have one of their original 1937 catalogs and the address was 2855-57 N. Rockwell St. in Chicago.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

Here's a page from my Jewel catalog. Unfortunately doesn't list the ingredients but it does say that it's proprietary so the post from the grandson of the owner may be correct, it may have linseed oil in it afterall.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Normally screwing w/ antiques doesn't necessarily increase their value...
> 
> https://theaquaticgazette.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/jewel-aquarium-co/
> 
> ...


Jeff I meant that if the work was done wrong, or in some cases done at all it might lose value not increase it.

Bump:


davrx said:


> I hope I'm not being too forward but I think it's a good idea to have this as part of your thread since anyone attempting to restore an antique or vintage aquarium may run across different types of aquarium cement. Yours is asphaltum if I'm not mistaken but it's looking like mine is some nasty lead based cement.


Not too forward at all. This isn't my thread though. I was only thinking about you getting more exposure for your question was all but I also see your point.

Unfortunately I have no viable options to help you in your endeavor here. Wish I did. If it were a linseed product the methods for asphaltum should have worked since that is also a linseed based product. (Not a petroleum base as the name would suggest)

Good luck and I hope you're successful.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

davrx said:


> Thanks for this information. I've already tried a WEN Rotary Tool with a flex shaft and tiny diamond burrs but this didn't work.
> I'm going to try a thin, fine toothed, hack saw blade next.


With something sticky, I might doubt trying to cut it as the teeth on the tool will get gummed up. What I find on the multi-tool is that just a plain edge scraper gives thousands of tiny whacks on the mortar or glue/junk and I can gradually force it back off things like glass when I would not be able to force a regular scraper in to do it. 
Like mentioned, I have not tried it on a tank but it does work good for the gunk they use on aluminum and metal framed windows. Kind of one of those times when I had a tool and ran out of good ideas to do the glass removal without breaking it , so got desperate? I bought the tool for small delicate sanding and trimming the bottom end of door trim but now that I have it, it works for a lot of other things. Good luck with the project.


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

davrx said:


> As far as restoration of antiques, you don’t see collectors leaving cars in their original rusted condition.



The VW crowd has become obsessed with driving around rusty messes simply because the crusty finish is "original" and they call it _patina._ Some dudes have weird taste, and to the right person, the "as-found" look is important. (I drive a 73 super beetle daily, BTW)

I don't mind freshening up an antique, especially if I'm not intending to sell it, and I have the intention of keeping it around another fifty years. 

I've redone a few steel frame tanks, and each one that I replaced panels on I swapped out the bottom for a pane of thick glass, since I'm not likely to be heating my tanks with oil lamps :wink2:

I did opt for black aquarium silicone though, just to match the tar-like coloration of the removed asphaltum stuff. Looked pretty nice too.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

Lingwendil said:


> The VW crowd has become obsessed with driving around rusty messes simply because the crusty finish is "original" and they call it _patina._ Some dudes have weird taste, and to the right person, the "as-found" look is important. (I drive a 73 super beetle daily, BTW)
> 
> I don't mind freshening up an antique, especially if I'm not intending to sell it, and I have the intention of keeping it around another fifty years.
> 
> ...


Wow, didn't know that about the VW crowd. If I saw one of the "patinated" ones on the road I would think it was a junker and the driver(s) were poor but then I don't know much about collectible VW's. I did have a VW Westfalia camper once though.
I've restored several Jewel tanks from the 20's, both models 90 and 91. They're my favorite because I like the design in the cast iron frame which I think is a cross between art deco and art nouveau. 
The standard 90 and 91 in the 20's came with either bronze paint over the cast iron (most common) or silver paint. Both had bulb edge glass. You could special order tanks from the company and could have the iron frames actually bronzed and I've seen one that was brass plated with brass top edges on the glass rather than bulb edge. Later in the 30's the 90 and 91 became taller and the end pieces came to a point to accommodate a thin stainless steel light and there were two glass pieces on the top front and back acting as a glass roof. These 30's models had a thinner slate bottom and were available in bronze or chrome plating; gone was the cheaper paint and gone was the bulb edge glass. The 30's models are extremely rare, probably due to the depression.
The one I'm referring to in this post looks like a 91 but is a third longer. It may have been a special order, one of a kind tank, or possibly a prototype that never went into production, a possible model 92.
I have a model 91 that I dismantled without damaging the glass and had it bronzed. It turned out really nice. It's glass was already loose in the frame, not tight like the one I'm currently working on.
I also use black silicone when the tank is reassembled.
I have a late model 90 from the 30's that is chrome plated and came with the original stainless steel light strip. It's the only one I've ever seen other than in my 1937 Jewel catalog. I have seen one other late model 91 that was also chrome plated and came with the original light.


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

davrx said:


> Wow, didn't know that about the VW crowd. If I saw one of the "patinated" ones on the road I would think it was a junker and the driver(s) were poor but then I don't know much about collectible VW's. I did have a VW Westfalia camper once though.


This sort of car will draw a bigger crowd and get more offers to buy than anything that's been restored-









Some of us VW guys are a little off...


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

Lingwendil said:


> This sort of car will draw a bigger crowd and get more offers to buy than anything that's been restored-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe because cars in this condition are a lot less expensive than the restored ones?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Funny how the mention of lead now gets such a reaction. It was not that long back that lead was a total different idea. In telephone work the cables were lead outside covering paper insulation inside so to cover and seal the splices underground, lead had to be melted and poured and wiped onto the end of lead cadmium sleeves as a safe way to solder the thing shut when torches couldn't be used due to gas lines that might be leaking. The guys on top melted the lead in pots over propane burners and then passed it down to the underground where they dipped the melted lead to pour onto the sleeve. Think of the amount of lead exposure when seated in a hole in the ground next to a pot of melted lead! Since there was no water to wash, it was normal to sand, file, and cut the sleeves, stop for lunch with black hands and then go back to the lead! The working guys were just tougher then or did they just die quicker? I know I was eating lead every day when I was thirty!


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

PlantedRich said:


> Funny how the mention of lead now gets such a reaction. It was not that long back that lead was a total different idea. In telephone work the cables were lead outside covering paper insulation inside so to cover and seal the splices underground, lead had to be melted and poured and wiped onto the end of lead cadmium sleeves as a safe way to solder the thing shut when torches couldn't be used due to gas lines that might be leaking. The guys on top melted the lead in pots over propane burners and then passed it down to the underground where they dipped the melted lead to pour onto the sleeve. Think of the amount of lead exposure when seated in a hole in the ground next to a pot of melted lead! Since there was no water to wash, it was normal to sand, file, and cut the sleeves, stop for lunch with black hands and then go back to the lead! The working guys were just tougher then or did they just die quicker? I know I was eating lead every day when I was thirty!



Yeah, the toilet at my last house, which was built in 1962 had oakum (creosoted rope) with molten lead poured over it to seal the cast iron flange to the cast iron sewer pipe. Instead of messing with it I just cut it off and used a rubber boot to attach the new PVC flange to the cast iron pipe when I remodeled the bathrooms.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe there are still lead boots for roof vent pipes.
When I was in college we had lead sheilding that we used to protect us from Cobalt 60! which we used in a physics experiment. We were calculating the diameter of the Cobalt atom. I have forgotten what equations we used but the T.A. assured us that our short exposure to the radioactive Cobalt would not harm us and there was no mention at all of any hazards of the lead shields which we were handling with our bare hands.
In a H.S. chemistry class, our teacher had a mercury filled glass tube with a rubber hose attached to the bottom of it. We were allowed to blow into this rubber hose to see how far we could make the mercury rise in the glass tube. Talk about toxic! There would have been mercury fumes coming out of the glass column.
I think the important thing is the period of time you are exposed to these poisonous elements.
Interestingly lead acetate, also know as sugar of lead was once used as a sweetener!
As an aside, the chlorox/linseed oil mixture has no effect on the cement. I may try glacial acetic acid next out of desperation. If this works I may be able to separate the glass before too much corrosion occurs to the cast iron.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

PlantedRich said:


> Funny how the mention of lead now gets such a reaction. It was not that long back that lead was a total different idea. In telephone work the cables were lead outside covering paper insulation inside so to cover and seal the splices underground, lead had to be melted and poured and wiped onto the end of lead cadmium sleeves as a safe way to solder the thing shut when torches couldn't be used due to gas lines that might be leaking. The guys on top melted the lead in pots over propane burners and then passed it down to the underground where they dipped the melted lead to pour onto the sleeve. Think of the amount of lead exposure when seated in a hole in the ground next to a pot of melted lead! Since there was no water to wash, it was normal to sand, file, and cut the sleeves, stop for lunch with black hands and then go back to the lead! The working guys were just tougher then or did they just die quicker? I know I was eating lead every day when I was thirty!


My second job in high school was as a typesetter. A linotype/Ludlow typesetter. Our machines were all auto fed pigs of lead. 
Once a week I ran the smelter to make those pigs. And the ventilation was opening the back door. 

During the summer we ran the AC units so no fresh air in the area at all.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

*Success!*

I mentioned my restoration project to my Father-In-Law and he said he was pretty sure we could get this tank apart. He had helped me do a Jewel 91 a few years ago and got all the pieces of glass out with no breakage.
What he does is grind off the screw heads which allows the removal of the slate bottom. Then he pounds on the screw shats with a ball-peen hammer (I thought for sure this would crack the glass) and then squirts some liquid petroleum distillate product (can't remember the name) onto the screw shafts. 
He uses a locking pliers to gently attempt to loosen and tighten the screw until he feels it starting to move. Once all the screws were removed we attempted to sit the tank upright. As soon as we lifted the tank it started to fall apart. The glass and corners just started to fall away. We grabbed the glass and removed it safely and set the 5 pieces of the cast iron frame down. We then took small chisels and ball-peen hammers and chiseled away the remaining cement.
Next step is to bead blast all the corrosion and old bronze paint off in prepartion for some real bronze plating.
The screws were round slotted (domed head) and would be very easy to snap off. If this had happened they would then have had to be drilled out.
I'm convinced this is the only method to dismantle one of these Jewel model 90 or 91 tanks unless you have one in bad shape where the cement has already started to pull away from the glass/frame.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

One of the frame corners had red paint on it from when it was at the Jewel factory. This corner had part of its threaded hole missing. The machine screws coming up through the slate base, through the cast iron base and threaded up into the corner braces are the only things holding this tank together other than the cement. I believe this red paint was to indicate a damaged or second piece. This supports my belief that this is a prototype rather than a special order since I would think this corner would not have been used in a piece that was sold to the public.
This is the first time I have found red paint markings on a Jewel aquarium.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Can't wait to see the restoration.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

I will post later after I retrieve in from the bronzer and glazier sometime next year but I'll move it to Tank Journals which would be a more appropriate place to show the restoration process.


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## StainlessFrame72 (Feb 26, 2021)

GraphicGr8s said:


> I've got a bunch of the MetalFrame tanks. I collect and refurb them. Many of mine had broken glass so I took the entire thing apart and removed all the asphaltum. As an aside, I was talking about the asphaltum with my ink supplier (offset printing) and it is actually a linseed oil product not petroleum.
> Anyhow, patience is required. Along with a putty knife and a heat gun. I melted the tar and slowly put the knife in to separate the glass. It takes a while. There is a sequence to removing the glass. First the slate must come out. Then the side panels and finally the front. Installation is the reverse of removal. I bought tanks from the $1 per gallon sale and used that as replacement. It's cheaper but you do have to take apart the tank. The good thing is the glass can be a bit smaller than the frame itself. Mine has about a 3/16" gap between the panels but since it is not structural like a glass tank it is not a problem.
> 
> I tried a bunch of different solvents to get the residual tar off with varying degrees of success. Mineral spirits. Denatured alcohol. Naptha. Among others. Toluene works about the best but it requires care in handling.
> ...


I am new to posting in Planted Tank forum but not new to reading it. In fact this is my first post and there is no more appropriate place to start than to express my appreciation to GraphicGr8s for his posts on repairing slate bottom tanks. I got my 10 gal Sternco slate bottom tank in December '72 a a Christmas present and used it until a couple months ago (with a brief 2 decade break for my military career). I made a few rookie silicone repairs over the years, which somehow held back the inevitable for longer than they should have. But the old tar ad hoc silicone could only take so much and after reading this forum, I decided to finally do it right. I followed the sage advise seen above but differed by using a paint remover called Citristrip instead of heat. I started with the aquarium upside down to get the bottom slate out first. I dabbed a glob of the stripper where the stainless steel frame meets the slate then gently inserted the corner of the razor blade between the stainless and slate and rocked gently while the orange chemical did its chemical thing, gently turning the tar into black ooze. The mess you see is only the beginning. The razor blade will only go so far, but don't force it - remove it, add more orange goo as needed and repeat, taking care to get that goo into the crack with the blade. Repeat and repeat until the side is done. Then to go deeper I use a hacksaw blade with the teeth ground flat. I ground the teeth flat to prevent damage to the stainless it was sliding against. If you find yourself feeling cocky and pushing the speed just start repeating the mantra, "PATIENCE" if thats what it takes to slow down that hacksaw blade. And whatever you do, don't PRY the stainless steel! You will never get those dents straight - you are not a body shop. Do all four sides of the bottom, then flip it over and do the same along the inside bottom edge. As you near completion begin to push up gently on the bottom to free it. Don't force it. Eventually you will feel it release its grip on one side and when that happens STOP because leverage is not your friend here. Leverage will bend stainless steel so let it back down and push on other spots as you work your blades and chemical stripper. When (not if) that bottom comes out, clean your nasty rubber gloves and your work environment, and take a few minutes to recover from the stress. I personally don't drink but after this I was ready to start. I actually did this over a 4 or 5 day period just to take breaks and avoid messing up the stainless. You will see a lot of dry tar remaining on the inside of the stainless but leave it for later. Next use the same procedure for the side glass. Then the front and rear glass. The most delecate thing with the fronts and sides is to not bend the top rail of stainless. Those sections are not supported like the sides and bottoms and are particularly susceptable to twisting, so the best technique is to free the top before the side and bottom for each glass section. And did I mention PATIENCE? Yes, constantly remind yourself of that. Use extra care to avoid breaking the glass simply because it is more dangerous to handle broken glass. With all the glass out you have a ton of dry tar about 1/8th inch thick throughout the inside. So now I introduce you to a new set of tools: Hard plastic panel removers. These are availiable from auto supply stores and cost about $10 for a half dozen various sizes. They work great, along with Citristrip, to get tar off the inside of the frame. Never scrape with a putty knife or anything metal because it will scratch the stainless steel. The stripper will only penetrate a small fraction of an inch, so apply it, wait, scrape, and repeat. And you have the whole inside to do, so while one section is letting the stripper take effect, other sections are ready for you to scrape. You may encounter dried silicone from previous repairs as well as original tar. If so . . . good luck. Its not easy to get rid of. Oil helps a little but not much. I used the plastic panel removers with some success. Don't look for great globs of silicone to come off though. I found that applyng a remover called "Un-Do" while rubbing it lightly and rapidly with a variety of the plastic tools worked best. I also tried erasers, my thumbnail, everything. again, good luck. Eventually I got it all off. The best advice I can give on silicone is to save it for last. First get that black goo off everything - your frame, your glass, your slate, your workspace, your clothes and yourself. Then your Better Half will probably grant you permission to take care of the silicone problem inside the house while watching TV. So with that done I measured carefully and ordered low iron 1/4 inch glass for the sides and regular glass for the bottom. Low Iron glass is pricy but nothing is more clear. I even got the edges polished so the new silicone would adhere to them better. The original glass was just a tad over 1/16" thick so I upgraded to 1/4" because I do'nt want to break a pane and have to go through this again! I chose to use a 1/4" glass bottom instead of the original slate because the slate appears to have had water seepage through hairline fissures. I might simply lay it on top of the glass bottom because I like the authenticity of it as an original piece and I usually left it exposed. I suspect, however, leaving it on the bottom will invite debris to work its way under it, creating an unhealthy environment. So this is where I am right now. I'll soon use silicone to put this thing together although I dread the thought of removing a frame full of silicone if I ever have to replace a pane of glass. And yes,that thought has me actually thinking of using tar again. Any suggestions are welcome.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

StainlessFrame72 said:


> I am new to posting in Planted Tank forum but not new to reading it. In fact this is my first post and there is no more appropriate place to start than to express my appreciation to GraphicGr8s for his posts on repairing slate bottom tanks. I got my 10 gal Sternco slate bottom tank in December '72 a a Christmas present and used it until a couple months ago (with a brief 2 decade break for my military career). I made a few rookie silicone repairs over the years, which somehow held back the inevitable for longer than they should have. But the old tar ad hoc silicone could only take so much and after reading this forum, I decided to finally do it right. I followed the sage advise seen above but differed by using a paint remover called Citristrip instead of heat. I started with the aquarium upside down to get the bottom slate out first. I dabbed a glob of the stripper where the stainless steel frame meets the slate then gently inserted the corner of the razor blade between the stainless and slate and rocked gently while the orange chemical did its chemical thing, gently turning the tar into black ooze. The mess you see is only the beginning. The razor blade will only go so far, but don't force it - remove it, add more orange goo as needed and repeat, taking care to get that goo into the crack with the blade. Repeat and repeat until the side is done. Then to go deeper I use a hacksaw blade with the teeth ground flat. I ground the teeth flat to prevent damage to the stainless it was sliding against. If you find yourself feeling cocky and pushing the speed just start repeating the mantra, "PATIENCE" if thats what it takes to slow down that hacksaw blade. And whatever you do, don't PRY the stainless steel! You will never get those dents straight - you are not a body shop. Do all four sides of the bottom, then flip it over and do the same along the inside bottom edge. As you near completion begin to push up gently on the bottom to free it. Don't force it. Eventually you will feel it release its grip on one side and when that happens STOP because leverage is not your friend here. Leverage will bend stainless steel so let it back down and push on other spots as you work your blades and chemical stripper. When (not if) that bottom comes out, clean your nasty rubber gloves and your work environment, and take a few minutes to recover from the stress. I personally don't drink but after this I was ready to start. I actually did this over a 4 or 5 day period just to take breaks and avoid messing up the stainless. You will see a lot of dry tar remaining on the inside of the stainless but leave it for later. Next use the same procedure for the side glass. Then the front and rear glass. The most delecate thing with the fronts and sides is to not bend the top rail of stainless. Those sections are not supported like the sides and bottoms and are particularly susceptable to twisting, so the best technique is to free the top before the side and bottom for each glass section. And did I mention PATIENCE? Yes, constantly remind yourself of that. Use extra care to avoid breaking the glass simply because it is more dangerous to handle broken glass. With all the glass out you have a ton of dry tar about 1/8th inch thick throughout the inside. So now I introduce you to a new set of tools: Hard plastic panel removers. These are availiable from auto supply stores and cost about $10 for a half dozen various sizes. They work great, along with Citristrip, to get tar off the inside of the frame. Never scrape with a putty knife or anything metal because it will scratch the stainless steel. The stripper will only penetrate a small fraction of an inch, so apply it, wait, scrape, and repeat. And you have the whole inside to do, so while one section is letting the stripper take effect, other sections are ready for you to scrape. You may encounter dried silicone from previous repairs as well as original tar. If so . . . good luck. Its not easy to get rid of. Oil helps a little but not much. I used the plastic panel removers with some success. Don't look for great globs of silicone to come off though. I found that applyng a remover called "Un-Do" while rubbing it lightly and rapidly with a variety of the plastic tools worked best. I also tried erasers, my thumbnail, everything. again, good luck. Eventually I got it all off. The best advice I can give on silicone is to save it for last. First get that black goo off everything - your frame, your glass, your slate, your workspace, your clothes and yourself. Then your Better Half will probably grant you permission to take care of the silicone problem inside the house while watching TV. So with that done I measured carefully and ordered low iron 1/4 inch glass for the sides and regular glass for the bottom. Low Iron glass is pricy but nothing is more clear. I even got the edges polished so the new silicone would adhere to them better. The original glass was just a tad over 1/16" thick so I upgraded to 1/4" because I do'nt want to break a pane and have to go through this again! I chose to use a 1/4" glass bottom instead of the original slate because the slate appears to have had water seepage through hairline fissures. I might simply lay it on top of the glass bottom because I like the authenticity of it as an original piece and I usually left it exposed. I suspect, however, leaving it on the bottom will invite debris to work its way under it, creating an unhealthy environment. So this is where I am right now. I'll soon use silicone to put this thing together although I dread the thought of removing a frame full of silicone if I ever have to replace a pane of glass. And yes,that thought has me actually thinking of using tar again. Any suggestions are welcome.


They do sell a silicone solvent. Not cheap but time is money.


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## StainlessFrame72 (Feb 26, 2021)

GraphicGr8s said:


> They do sell a silicone solvent. Not cheap but time is money.


If you come across a source for that, please post! Whatever it costs will be worth it. Thank you


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

StainlessFrame72 said:


> If you come across a source for that, please post! Whatever it costs will be worth it. Thank you


When I was looking for the DC 795 the only place I found it was at Coastal Construction Products. They were the ones that told me about it. I called them a few months later and it was about $30 per quart. That was a few years ago. It doesn't dissolve the silicone it breaks the bond between the silicone and the material. 
I've tried the usual suggestions like acetone and had very little success. Since it was taking $1 per gallon tanks apart for glass to repair the metalframes I just kept scraping and never got the stuff.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

StainlessFrame72 said:


> If you come across a source for that, please post! Whatever it costs will be worth it. Thank you








Dicone NC9 – Prosoco







prosoco.com





Worth a look.
In the careful what you wish for column .


Dicone NC9 - Google Shopping



Another listed to remove silicone.








3M® 38984 - 1 qt. Specialty Adhesive Removers


1 qt. Specialty Adhesive Removers - Part Number 38984 by 3M. Available in Exterior Department at www.carid.com




www.carid.com


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## StainlessFrame72 (Feb 26, 2021)

GraphicGr8s said:


> When I was looking for the DC 795 the only place I found it was at Coastal Construction Products. They were the ones that told me about it. I called them a few months later and it was about $30 per quart. That was a few years ago. It doesn't dissolve the silicone it breaks the bond between the silicone and the material.
> I've tried the usual suggestions like acetone and had very little success. Since it was taking $1 per gallon tanks apart for glass to repair the metalframes I just kept scraping and never got the stuff.


Thank you!


jeffkrol said:


> Dicone NC9 – Prosoco
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Prosoco product looks promising. I'll try it when I find myself in a silicone removal situation again. Much apppreciated.


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