# Whats better to run a canister filter or sump?



## Shamus.Flynn (Jun 11, 2014)

I got a rena xp3 filter system for my 75gallon tank and was wondering if thats better then running a sump or not. Have seen people say canisters are better n people saying sump is better. Arent they basicly same thing?


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

They are not basically the same thing.

What are your intentions for the tank? Are you thinking wet/dry sump? There is no 'right' answer to say that one or the other is better. They each have their pros and cons.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Honestly both do fine long term. If I was going to do a sump though in freshwater I would do a wet/dry instead.


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

Shamus.Flynn said:


> I got a rena xp3 filter system for my 75gallon tank and was wondering if thats better then running a sump or not. Have seen people say canisters are better n people saying sump is better. Arent they basicly same thing?


There are not even remotely the same thing. Canister filter and wet-dry filter (aka sump) work on completely different physical principles and have completely different properties.

Canister filter is an airtight/watertight system, consisting of two siphons (intake and return) exactly counterbalancing each other. For this reason canister filter is a _gravity-neutral_ system. The pump in a canister filter does not have to perform any work to lift water back into the tank, it only has to push water through the filtering media. Canister filters are insensitive to height difference between the canister an the tank (as long as you stay within pressure rating of canister seals).

Sump is an open system (not air- or watertight). Sump is a _gravity-fed_ system, meaning that the intake constantly flows by itself. The pump in a sump return has to literally _lift_ water back into the tank, which means that the pump has to be more powerful. Sump is sensitive to height difference - the higher the pump has to lift the water, the more powerful the pump has to be. 

For obvious reasons, since sump is an open system, it is much better at aerating the water. Canister filter does not aerate the water at all. 

Canister filters naturally cannot overflow (as long as they remain watertight). In a sump the intake works independently from return, which means that the sump has to be set up properly (overflow box etc) in order to make sure the intake flow stops if the pump fails.


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## tricken (Jun 27, 2013)

if running co2 a sump may not be for you due to the extra off gassing, but a sump is great for housing heaters and extra equipment out of the main tank


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## Shamus.Flynn (Jun 11, 2014)

Thanks for the info. I got a 75 gallon tank right now and been looking at getting new filter system and thought about sump. I only got small fish in my freshwater tank. About 20 fish or so of tetras and guppies. Just looking for some new things to do to tank so i can plan abit ahead. Going to make a new tank like 150gallon n my canister filter isnt really big enough for that size of tank so explorin new options. What would it cost around to setup a sump and everything? Bigger rena or fluval canister filter systems run around $500 here. And have to admit looking at a heater stuck to side of tank does look that great


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## TRENT (Nov 25, 2009)

Shamus.Flynn said:


> Thanks for the info. I got a 75 gallon tank right now and been looking at getting new filter system and thought about sump. I only got small fish in my freshwater tank. About 20 fish or so of tetras and guppies. Just looking for some new things to do to tank so i can plan abit ahead. Going to make a new tank like 150gallon n my canister filter isnt really big enough for that size of tank so explorin new options. What would it cost around to setup a sump and everything? Bigger rena or fluval canister filter systems run around $500 here. And have to admit looking at a heater stuck to side of tank does look that great


If it were me and I was upgrading I would use your existing 75 gallon for the sump. Problem solved and your out very little cash. Go to glass shop and buy precut baffles silicon in and done. Once you go with a sump you will love it. No more clutter in DT.


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## Kareen (Apr 6, 2013)

Check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZJBm89MuzU


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## Shamus.Flynn (Jun 11, 2014)

Is there a maximum distance a sump can be from the main tank? I could use my 75 gallon for sump but cant hide that anywhere near my tank lol. I got a big stand that i could fit a 20 gallon tank or so under my main tank. But my 75 gallon woul have to go in basement. Which could go right under my main tank so be like 8feet away from it


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## crazyboy (Jul 11, 2014)

Shamus.Flynn said:


> Is there a maximum distance a sump can be from the main tank? I could use my 75 gallon for sump but cant hide that anywhere near my tank lol. I got a big stand that i could fit a 20 gallon tank or so under my main tank. But my 75 gallon woul have to go in basement. Which could go right under my main tank so be like 8feet away from it


That would be doable, but you would have to get a large pump rated for that much head pressure.


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## Shamus.Flynn (Jun 11, 2014)

Thanks for the video. Got one of those shelfs in basement i dont use since wheel broke on it. How big of a pump would you need if its right under tank in stand?


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## TRENT (Nov 25, 2009)

Shamus.Flynn said:


> Is there a maximum distance a sump can be from the main tank? I could use my 75 gallon for sump but cant hide that anywhere near my tank lol. I got a big stand that i could fit a 20 gallon tank or so under my main tank. But my 75 gallon woul have to go in basement. Which could go right under my main tank so be like 8feet away from it


You can have the sump pretty much anywhere as long as you can obtain a constant gravity flow. I ran a sump about 32' away from the DT. Plumbed it under the house to the garage on the other side of the house. Just depends how much work your willing to do for what you want to accomplish. 

As for pumps I think a Mag 12/18 would work fine. http://www.marinedepot.com/powerheads_pumps_danner_mag_drive_supreme-ap.html


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

Shamus.Flynn said:


> Is there a maximum distance a sump can be from the main tank? I could use my 75 gallon for sump but cant hide that anywhere near my tank lol. I got a big stand that i could fit a 20 gallon tank or so under my main tank. But my 75 gallon woul have to go in basement. Which could go right under my main tank so be like 8feet away from it


It is not about distance. It is about height difference. I.e. only the vertical portion of the distance matters, while horizontal portion - not much. With a sump the matter of height difference simply boils down to how powerful your pump is. If you want more height difference - just get a more powerful pump and you're good.

P.S. Absolute distance does have an effect, since longer hoses will usually introduce more flow resistance due to liquid drag inside the hose. But still this is not as important as height difference.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

+1 to what has been said already.
It is all above vertical distance if you use a sump. 20G is not a large enough sump for your 150G tank. You will probably want to use the 75G or something else if you can plumb through the floor. Will require a very powerful pump... The 1200 or 1800 GPH Danners that Trent recommended would probably be fine.

Also it would be a + IMO to have it in a different room as some sump setups can be loud / annoying and require some serious DIY ingenuity to make dead silent. This is what turned me off from sumps.
If you put it in your garage you will have to do any water changes/top offs down there as well so keep that in mind. You can't just bury it somewhere you couldn't access it.


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## Shamus.Flynn (Jun 11, 2014)

If i bought everything from store what would it cost me around? Making it looks very simple just curious what pump, filter n sump would cost around


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## Shamus.Flynn (Jun 11, 2014)

For a 75 gallom tank i mean


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## TRENT (Nov 25, 2009)

Shamus.Flynn said:


> For a 75 gallom tank i mean


Do you mean using the 75 gallon as a sump? 

Sump free (you already have it.
Danner mag 12 is 125.00 (Amazon).
3 baffles of glass precut 30.00-40.00
Silicone GE1 3.00-4.00 per tube. 
Another heater (300w) 30.00-40.00 unless you already have a few laying around. 
Matrix pond media 20l 99.00 free shipping

So to do it right maybe around 250.00?


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