# Planted meets ... Planted?



## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

During my move I've decided to retire my 35g hex and replace it with two 60-P tanks side by side for my office. The idea is having a drastic constrast between the two, one being planted and one a reef. The planted tank will have horizontal lines, using manzanita branches, and green (hopefully!) plants. Mainly moss and possibly marsilea as ground cover for it's different shades of green and small size. The reef will be vertical, small columns of live rock rising up, and probably a two color palette (blue pink?) of zoanthids. That's the plan as it stands now, it could change.

As for the equipment I'm running two 24" Sundial T5HO fixtures, each with 4x24w and moonlights. They are sitting on some light bars my buddies put together for me, mounted to the back of the stand. You can see the bar reflects a lot of light where the fixture sits on them, they're going to put a matte black finish on there to kill that. Also cord clips are being installed to the back of the light bars to route all the cords down and out of view. They are still a work inprogress but I'm digging them. I have a couple Koralia Nanos to push water around, and an internal surface skimming Subcurrent filter. Not sure if I'll use that as I want to keep the water surface as clean as possible. I'll be using a dosing pump to keep the water levels stable.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

Oh wow! I am SUPER JEALOUS. I want that tank and stand! Can't wait to see how this comes out!


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Looks great already and there's not even water yet.
Keep the updates coming!

-Ryan


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## fritz (Jun 3, 2008)

That is such an awesome idea. I love the setup too! Please keep this thread very very updated.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

That is going to be amazing!

You know, i don't think i've ever seen someone use an ada tank for reefs. Then again, this is mostly a planted tank forum lol.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Sounds VERY cool!

Won't you have issues with salt creep getting into the FW tank with the 2 that close, though?


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## kittytango (May 7, 2008)

This will be interesting.........


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

charge your camera batteries and get ready to take some pics!! i'm ready for the step by step, play by play description. very cool equipment so far.

jd


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## Jack Gilvey (Jun 16, 2008)

Love this idea! I've been thinking of buying another 30-C and doing the same.
What stand is that?


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## Renegade545 (Oct 28, 2007)

Aboslutely awesome, and good luck. Can't wait to see how this turns out.


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## Ozymandias (Jan 17, 2008)

set up looks good and this should be an interesting build on both part good luck and defiantly post lots of pictures


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## Adhlc (May 4, 2008)

Subscribed!


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

marufovega said:


> charge your camera batteries and get ready to take some pics!! i'm ready for the step by step, play by play description. very cool equipment so far.
> 
> jd


X2 - can't wait to see more!


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## adamprice271 (Jun 10, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> Sounds VERY cool!
> 
> Won't you have issues with salt creep getting into the FW tank with the 2 that close, though?


Unless he is going to be using a HOB filter on the salt tank, there will be no issues with salt creep. It is caused by water splashing onto the sides and then evaporating, leaving the salt. As long as he has a canister, there should be no splashing about.

This is going to look great, almost makes me wish I didn't take all of my salt tanks down  Waiting for the final looks!

Adam


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## digthemlows (Dec 17, 2007)

can't wait to watch this progress!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i bet it will look really cool when done. is the reef going to be just zoas? IME they arent much to look at, comparing to LPS and SPS, or even a xenia. im not familiar with your light fixture, but it think some more "shapy" corals would also survive in there that would give more of a contrast to the planted tank.


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## stargate_geek (Mar 31, 2008)

This will be wicked cool! 

You could also always do a freshwater planted next to a saltwater planted  That would be killer!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

The stand is made by Aquatic Fundamentals. It's pretty nice. It was easy to assemble, sturdy, and it's got a nice finish to it. I really liked the door placement and lines of the stand, it matched up well with the light fixtures.

Regarding salt creep, adamprice271 touched on it. Splashing is responsible for all that nasty stuff. I'm planning to have controlled surface agitation to keep salt from jumping ship!

I just bought a 1/15 HP chiller for the reef side. I hope the planted side isn't jealous. I think that's going to make me go with lily pipes and a XP1 on each side. (instead of the internal filter/powerheads) That way I'll have more room in the tanks and can put stuff inline (co2, heaters) and out of sight.

Any opinions of the cheap glass pipes on eBay from Hong Kong? Cal Aqua and ADA pipes are a little more than I want to spend on that portion of the tank.

@[email protected] - I was thinking zoas for a few reasons. They are small, so a good fit for a tank this size. They are easy to care for, which is a huge plus in my eyes. I'm still open to other options, but I'm trying to stay away from the common "lets shove in everything we can" mentality you often find in reef tanks. I want to limit the number of different species and colors. Just going for something a little different than the norm.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

LOL
thats exactly my mentality with my nano reef. you should see what i crammed into 6 gallons; everything from green star polyps to birds nests.
but here is my problem with zoas, they will cover up your rocks, and then what? IMO you will need 1 or 2 easy LPS or obviously-a-coral softies (what i call obviously-a-coral are those corals that people with no clue will still know its a coral) to add some shape to the tank. but its your tank and your taste.

im interested in though, is how you plan on doing a planted tank full of low light plants next to a reef.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

There's nothing wrong with a lot of color and different species. It can look really bold and nice.

I actually like how zoas can cover a rock. And if there's some nice features in the live rock, you can always trim them back to uncover it. I like small specimens for a small tank personally. I'm not experienced in reef keeping, so I'm going to continue looking to see what else is suitable for a small tank. If you have any specific suggestions I'm all ears!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Oh yeah, the light spill issue! The lights are 6" off the water surface right now. Then there's the pipe, acting as a 3/4" shade between the two. Hopefully that keeps it down.
I was kicking around the idea of a black acrylic divider, but I think it'd look weird.

And please share if you can find that link. It'd be great to gain the knowledge without having to act out all the same mistakes!


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

This looks like one to watch. 

SUBSCRIBED


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Finally received all the equipment in the mail. Finished up the light bar. (no camera with me at the time) I'm going over to paint the room it's going in tonight, and should be able to start assembling things over the weekend.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Oh man, I can't wait to see more pics after this weekend.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

They might also have a buddy, a zero edge might join the family and shake up the plans a bit. We shall see..


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## youareafever (Mar 18, 2008)

nice setup! cant wait to see more!

zero edge aquarium?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

ashappar said:


> there was a tank years ago like just what you are planning and I can't find a link to it. :icon_redf
> 
> between the planted fw and marine tanks was a wall of christmas moss to keep light spillover down, I wish I could find the link -- I seem to remember there being a lot of detail about design and problem solving.
> 
> ...










http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/christmasmossalbum/album1.html
Here, there are some pics of the tank


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Always talked about doing something similar!

Cool that you are actually doing it!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

That looks like a nice setup. Too bad there isn't a full tank shot of those in the gallery.

My planted tank may never have a reef neighbor... 
It was going to be pretty tight fitting 2 canisters, 2 inline heaters, co2 tank and equipment, 2 auto top off reservoirs, chiller, etc in that cabinet. I also got a great deal on an outer orbit fixture, 150w hqi, 130w pc actinics, and moonlights to sit over my Oceanic 30g cube. So that is going to house the reef. The 20x18 inch footprint will allow me to do more elaborate rockwork, as well as fitting the equipment in the cabinet.

Time for a picture, some test rock formations. I busted up my biggest (awkward) piece of seiryu stone, giving me a lot of extra pieces to work with. Also got some nice rubble that I can scatter around the base to give a nice transition to the sand. 

I'm thinking of marsilea ground cover, and bushes of anubia petite at the base of the rocks.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Hmm. I like the 2nd one the best


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## Mangala (Jul 23, 2006)

omg... I just found this...

I love the idea and I just got another idea! I know you were wanting something that was a TOTAL contrast, but wouldn't it be cool if you scaped the tanks exactly perfect so that it looked like land that was sloping down to the sea?! So that like, the FW tank had a somewhat taller hardscape, and the same color sand on the side that borders the marine tank, and then the marine tank slopes down at the same angle? 

... it's making me want to say "Duuuuuude" over and over.

:wink:


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

i like number 3 the best


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## trigun808 (May 18, 2008)

Mangala said:


> omg... I just found this...
> 
> I love the idea and I just got another idea! I know you were wanting something that was a TOTAL contrast, but wouldn't it be cool if you scaped the tanks exactly perfect so that it looked like land that was sloping down to the sea?! So that like, the FW tank had a somewhat taller hardscape, and the same color sand on the side that borders the marine tank, and then the marine tank slopes down at the same angle?
> 
> ...


Duuuuuuudeee so really awesome!i can imagine it!
GReAT IDEA!!!


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

I like number 2 the best


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

I like number 3 the best


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

My vote is for #2


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## metageologist (Jan 10, 2008)

i vote #2


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## Mangala (Jul 23, 2006)

trigun808 said:


> Duuuuuuudeee so really awesome!i can imagine it!
> GReAT IDEA!!!


Thank you. :wink: 



Ok, for the rocks, I like number 3 and I like number 1 - I like number 1 because it will be SO evenly balanced white space to black space that it will feel very balanced, even though it's quite lop-sided - especially if you were making a moss tank of some kind. 

If you were planting tall all over, I'd use 3 to keep the feeling of the rocks throughout the tank, without feeling like you're in a mountain range, which is what you get with #2

That's just my take on it, anyway.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

definitely #2.


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## jazzlvr123 (Jul 16, 2007)

awesome tank


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Mangala: What would be even cooler is having a taller tank, planted, next to a lower tank, reef, and work the transition that way. That would allow for a more seamless shore look than the identical sized tanks, in my opinion.

---

Thanks for all the comments, and preferences on the rock formations. I went with a modified #2. I wanted an overhang to cast shadow, so I adjusted the largest piece. Under that overhang is a nice shelf I'll be able to plant.

I am a bit worried about the sand naturally leveling itself and the rocks shifting. I propped the rocks up on each other (with only about 1/2" of sand in the tank and didn't really use the substrate to support weird angles. Hopefully it works. I'd hate to see a rock fall and shatter the tank! :biggrin:

I got some extra pieces and rubble I might arrange about the rock base to ease the transition to the sand. I'll try that after I plant it. Speaking of planting, I need tools! It's easy to work with your hands when you have 18" of depth. This 11" makes my fingers attempt gymnastics they cannot do!

Here's a shot 20 minutes after filling. Two 24w 10000k T5's on. I'm waiting for the remaining two 6400k to be delivered.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow, awesome. I really like those rocks!!


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

it looks really good. i think, if it were my tank, i might try a little deeper substrate on the right side, especially the right rear corner.

overall, a really nice balance of rocks.

i'm kinda bummed about no salty next door.

jd


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'll definitely increase the sand depth a little bit to help the illusion of hills. It's about 2.5" back there, and an inch up front.

I'm also bummed about the reef thing. At least the cube's dimensions will allow for some wicked 3 sided viewing and more livestock.


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

what about reef?


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

My vote is for the mirror image of #1. I think there will be more balance (open space and rock terrain), plus you're adhering to the Golden Rule of having the main focal point just to the left of center.


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## Bill109 (May 5, 2008)

i have a reef tank at home in addition to planted tank. and if you can keep it clean and thriving.. they are really beautiful.. i love my 90 gallon reef
best of luck


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## Saraja87 (Jul 18, 2007)

I love those rocks, they look very natural and unique at the same time.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Ringram: I decided to build up the right side because this is the tank on the left. I figured the taller hardscape elements should be where the tanks meet, and trailing down towards the sides to give wider viewing angles.

Bill109: I hope to have a nice looking reef. I'm going to start really simple, no fish, until I figure things out. I'm also going for more of an open look with the reef.

Saraja87: Thanks. I tried to get some unique overhangs and formations. Hopefully it works out nicely when planted.

nate_mcnasty: Reef got rejected from the side by sides. Couldn't fit all the equipment into that space. It got upgraded to an Oceanic 30g cube though, so I'm sure it's feelings aren't hurt that bad.

---

Now I'm trying to figure out what to do in the remaining side. I'm torn between a nice colorful collection of stems with some low sprawling driftwood, or a tank with a tangle of manzanita, moss covered branches, a bunch of anubias and subwassertang around the base of the wood, and a background of crypt spiralis.

I like the moss covered branches because they're a good contrast to the hard vertical rocks in the other tank. Problem is moss, anubias, and spiralis are all green, same as the marsilea and anubias petite in the other tank. That's why I'm considering a bunch of stems, to bring in oranges, reds and pinks. I'm not sure how much I'll like stems in a smaller tank though.. Only 14" tall and 11" front isn't especially roomy..

Any input or ideas?


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## lekyiscool (May 27, 2008)

amazing what kind of substrate or sand is that it looks amazing


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

lekyiscool said:


> amazing what kind of substrate or sand is that it looks amazing


It's a pool filtration sand, made by redflint.com

I had to call all over the city to try and find some pool sand that wasn't white in color. It was worth it though, as I really like this color. And the grain size is nice, easy to plant in and the sand is big enough to not stay suspended in the water column when disturbed.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Ok, finally got the tanks RUNNING. I forgot about the XP1 and it's stock intake, needing to be filled with water to prime the canister. No easy filling of glass pipes. So yeah, I had to suck down some aquarium water, _fun._

Anyways, here is a phone picture of the tanks. 

Left tank, put a few anubia petite on the main mountain. Need more. Planted the marsilea. Need to get tweezers to plant the rest of it more densely. Random floating stems to help battle early algae.

Right tank, used more stone in lower ground hugging arrangements. Blyxa back left, java fern windelov tree back right, moss covered stones scattered about. I'm planning to build up that back left corner with stems, or maybe another windelov if I can find one. I might use dwarf hair grass as a carpet, but I'd love to try UG, leaving a little winding sand path down the center.


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

That is looking so nice. Now I really dont feel bad that I didnt get the remainder of the stones. 

This is the things that dreams are made of. ( I just heard that in a commercial as I was typing LOL)

I cant wait to see this come together.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

They look awesome


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## youareafever (Mar 18, 2008)

im bummed about the reef thing going down the drain. either way tanks are looking good.


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## Mangala (Jul 23, 2006)

Ah, the reef thing, it might not happen, but I still like to think about it. 

What if the tank stand had two levels, like a step ladder type thing, and you could have a really tall reef tank on the lower level, and a half as tall tropical tank on the upper level. If they worked out to be exactly the same height at the surface of it all, you could do some really interesting things with it. 

Even better is if you could put a third tank underneath the freshwater one, and just fill it up with branches, dirt and shells, to give the impression of like you took a slice of the earth and are keeping it to show.

... I feel like I should make an illustration...

ah well. 

What you've got is really looking quite nice, though. It will be really really awesome if you can somehow make it look like it's all one big tank, and all goes together, like those paintings you find sometimes that come in different panels. 

Panel Tank, you could call it.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

looking really awesome!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

*And disaster strikes!!!* :thumbsdow 

Tank on the left has some white powder substance forming on the plant leaves. I see little non-moving things that look like white worms, maybe 2-3mm long. Powder comes off the leaves if I rub them, but there's a LOT of leaves and the worse ones break off. That is the tank using an XP1 that was originally on a reef tank. Uh oh. I washed it good (or so I thought) and let it bake in the sun, then rinsed it before using. 

Hopefully it clears up, otherwise we might get a reef there afterall, haha. Any ideas or suggestions? If I have to do a full breakdown of everything, I might just go reef.. I'm hoping I can replace the filter tubing and sponges. Just don't know how to clear this up in the tank.

Here's a shot of it's neighbor. No signs the nasty white plague has jumped over. I added some crypts upfront, still need to beef up that back left corner. Not sure what's going to end up there yet.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Are you trying to create a tree on the right with Windelov? Very interesting and creative. Can't wait to see it grow out.


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## youareafever (Mar 18, 2008)

white worms, i hardly believe they could have came from a reef tank. the difference in salinity and and all other variables would absolutely killed everything. 

but if this means your reef is gonna happen after all, its gotta be fate. :icon_wink 

ive been thinking about your lighting problem about how to prevent the lighting from spilling over, and i figure if you are willing to do reef again and possibly rethink your lighting system you can go MH over your reeftank and direct the light with external reflectors, should be easy since MH is a point source lighting.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hmm, maybe the fish tank gods are telling you you should have never changed your mind about doing a reef


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## midazolam (Sep 2, 2007)

sounds like planeria. Its harmless.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

youareafever said:


> white worms, i hardly believe they could have came from a reef tank. the difference in salinity and and all other variables would absolutely killed everything.


That's what I thought. Like I said, these things aren't moving so I doubt they're alive. I'm guessing more debris is coming out of the filter pads that I didn't see or wasn't able to clean. But it's weird that this white stuff isn't settling on the sand or rocks, just the plant leaves..

As for the lighting system, it really doesn't spill over much. I tested it out with actinics and it doesn't really show up in the other tank.

---

Cah925: Yup, going for a tree look. I didn't want to do the branches and moss thing, thought this could work out nicely. And my coral red pencilfish love that big plant, hopefully it will make them comfortable enough to not want to jump!

Clwatkins10: First thing I thought is "oh, so this is my punishment?" Hopefully it sorts itself out. Or maybe I try stuffing all the equipment under there anyways and run with a reef.

midazolam: Doesn't look like the pictures I've seen. Like I said, they're dead. This is a new clean tank, I wouldn't expect to find them in there.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

...so baller. Peel money rolls til your thumbs get paper cuts.

What are the plans for livestock?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I've given some thought to the livestock but don't have any concrete plans.

I love my coral red pencilfish, and I have 4 in the tank on the right, and I plan to add a small school of corydoras hastatus. For the mountain tank on the left, if it ever gets right I'm going to put a large school of embers or micro rasboras in there, along with some shrimp.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

prototyp3 said:


> I've given some thought to the livestock but don't have any concrete plans.
> 
> I love my coral red pencilfish, and I have 4 in the tank on the right, and I plan to add a small school of corydoras hastatus. For the mountain tank on the left, if it ever gets right I'm going to put a large school of embers or micro rasboras in there, along with some shrimp.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Sounds perfect to me!

Perhaps the stuff on your plant leaves is just some calcium deposits blowing out of the filter media? I don't think I would have kept the same media, IME SW does tend to leave all kinds of residues all over the place... Is it still coming out of the filter, or did it just happen once when you first turned it on?


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## pvtschultz (Jun 17, 2008)

Well, I've seen his last tank so I know that these will look good when he gets them put together. 

I counted all the rummies and there are 11 of them and they have taken to my tank rather well. I managed to get the SAE's in there without any dancing on the carpet as well. Thanks for the fish and I'll be following your new tanks. Give me a shout if you ever plan on going reef. I've got a few years worth of experience that I can pass along.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

lauraleellbp: It kept coming out of the filter. I finally replaced the filter tubing, tossed the media out, and put in filter floss and carbon. Seemed to have done the trick, no more white debris, and no more leaves turning white and dying.

pvtschultz: Good to hear we got them all out! I'm glad they've settled in nicely. When I get to that reef stuff I'll definitely pick your brain if I hit any snags.

*UPDATE!* Tanks are alive and OK. They're kind of messy, floating plants and extra stems to help keep away algae. No CO2 in there yet, I finally got all equipment needed to get it running. 

Left tank's marsilea minuta has been growing out nicely. I also got my anubias petite placed in there. Next up is growing out and trying a low background of rotala colorata, I'd like to see that splash of color contrast against the deep green leaves and dark rocks.

On the right I've added some needle leaf fern. I like how it reaches out around the rocks. The moss took off and needs some serious trimming. The blyxa is hurting, I think it wants the CO2 and all lights on.. (I've been running only 48w without the CO2) The front right foreground is a mess, I'm growing out some fissidens for a friend. I miss that open sand bed!


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

AGA 2009 here you come!


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## Saraja87 (Jul 18, 2007)

Wow, those tanks look so clear. I love the dark rocks in the left tank and the ferns in the right look so lush.


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## Bk828 (Mar 11, 2008)

Very beautiful and I agree its very clean/natural and spacious


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

MedRed said:


> AGA 2009 here you come!


i so agree with this, great tanks.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for the comments.

I finally hooked up the CO2 today, I'm sure the plants are celebrating. I need to get a couple check valves so I can run my night time air pump for extra oxygen. The low surface agitation is scary.. On one hand I can raise up the pipes to agitate the surface, but then I deal with a little extra noise. Or I go with the air pumps at night, but that adds to the clutter in, and under, the tanks.

And I need all the room I can get, as I still want to setup some form of an auto top off system. I'm not trying to achieve a perfectly consistent water level, so no float switches. I'm either going to pump water constantly at a slow rate (a few mL per hour) or setup a timer to power on a pump for a few minutes each morning to replenish the evaporated water. Any input on the pros and cons of either method?

Noise is important because this my workplace/home office. Messy cords and clutter because I haven't settled in after the move! (How long can I get away with that excuse?)


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That looks great. Hmm, I bet you get a lot of work done eh


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

beautiful set up!!! what show is on?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

clwatkins10 said:


> That looks great. Hmm, I bet you get a lot of work done eh


I've given up on trying to convince people my work is _work_. Making games is a job, I swear! :hihi:



fishman9809 said:


> beautiful set up!!! what show is on?


It's a music video channel, and that adorable lady is Taylor Swift. I'm targetting her for marriage.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Pardon the stupid question, but what happened to planted meets reef?


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## Bk828 (Mar 11, 2008)

^^ They divorced and planted found someone else he had alot of things in common with..

updates?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Update time. Tanks went down the drain after being neglected after I was in an auto accident. I decided to break them down and start over rather than wasting time trying to rehab them back into shape.

I didn't like cleaning the lily pipes so I replaced them. I'm using customflo kits which allows for much better circulation. Each tank has two intakes, one swiveling output near the top to give surface agitation, and one spray bar that blows across the substrate kicking debris up and into the filter. Much better than the glass pipes, and they should be more hidden once things grow in.

I kept the tank on the right similar in feel. Back corners of needle leaf fern, midground of cryptocoryne x willisii lucens.

Tank on the left got the manzanita treatment. It's got anubias petite and marsilea minuta. I'm considering cryptocoryne spiralis or lily pads in the back corners. If the marsilea doesn't recover I might just turn the tank into a moss and bolbitis heudelotii tank. I'd be selling a ton of anubias petite then!

Here they are immediately after setting them up.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

tanks look nice. i like the contrast of the 2 different hardscapes.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

They really look nice. Why is the water level so low? The bolbitis idea sounds really cool . I hope you are recovering well from the accident.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

It almost looks like a continuous tank. They'll be nice when they fill in.


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

Nice symmetry between the two tanks, I like how yo have the equiptment identical and respective of each other. Looks like a minor case of OCD. LOL

Why get rid of the Anabias nanas you may want to keep them to fill in the foreground along with the bolbitis.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

great tanks..


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

@[email protected]
If I couldn't get the contrast of a salt next to fresh, I thought I better distance the fresh water tanks from each other as much as possible!

clwatkins10
I was/am still messing around in the tanks and didn't get to filling and cleaning 'em up. And I'm as good as new now, some unattentive driver can't put me down. 

Tex Gal
Now that you mention it they do kind of look blended into one another. I wonder if it will still give that illusion when they grow and fill in!

rekles75
Good call. I'm sure I can find some areas to fill with the petite, even with a bunch of bolbitis. I have a couple ideas now where they could be used as the tank fills in.
My buddy helped with the rebirth of the tanks. I use the term "helped" lightly, as I'd rearrange every filter pipe he suctioned to the tank. He just didn't have the eye, haha.

Down_Shift
Thanks. Hopefully I can keep them in order this time around!

---

I just picked up 3 small bolbitis plants to see how they'd work in my tank. I'm interested to see what leaf color I'd get. They're turning a little brown after a quick bleach dip to rid them of fishstore ickies. Not what I had hoped for. I want green!

I also picked up a school of 16 cardinals. Couldn't pass them up after seeing them school. They reminded me a bit of my rummynose I loved in my 40g tank, only smaller and more suited for this smaller setup. The all survived the acclimation, they're eating and acting fine, but I noticed ICH spots. Figures! Not sure whether I should try the Ich-Rid+ med treatment or if I should get a UV sterilizer and try that out. I don't want to damage my plants or stain my tank's silicone. Any tips?


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## youareafever (Mar 18, 2008)

catch all of them and put them in a QT tank to be treated there? <--thats how saltwater ppl do it.......acctually rule of thumb is to QT fish prior to introducing to the tank. 

uv wont do anything, u ever heard of the bounce method?


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## MARIMOBALL (Mar 18, 2007)

you can raise the temp to 84F for about a week and the ich usually goes away and you don't use chemicals. Plants may or may not suffer a bit though.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

even if you treat all the fish outside the tank, the larvea can live in the tank without a host for a month. so i would suggest treating the tank. 
i would use medication, and bump the temp up to 80F at least (and 80 wont hurt plants. i even kept moss at 80). maybe a tiny amount of salt, like a pinch which is a total underdose (ive done that with plants before too). 
of course, the best for the plants and the fish would be for you to take the patient route and take out all the fish, treate in another tank with high temp, a bit of salt, and meds. and then let the tank stay plant-less for a month and half (just to be sure) at a slightly increased temp before adding the fish.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Bounce method? I haven't heard of that, what is that?

I picked up a 9W Green Killing Machine UV sterilizer from Petsmart for $35 bucks. I have the temperature at 82F. The fish are acting just fine, so hopefully the combination of temp, water changes, and the UV sterilizer will do the trick. I really don't want to raise the temp and medicate. I tried that in my last tank and it did the plants in.

As for quarantine tanks, it'd be nice. But when you have a lady dead set against aquariums it's hard to get the green light on something like that. I'd probably have a quarantine tank with OJ, coffee, or whatever she has handy dumped in there! I don't add fish that often, but maybe I could hide one away in the basement somewhere. :thumbsup: 

I'll keep this updated as the days pass by..


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## youareafever (Mar 18, 2008)

well then the bounce method is out of question for you then, its a procedure that involves placing the fish in a brand new tanks (QT) at key stages of the ich life cycle. done enough times the ich will eventually disapear from your fish. 

whats with this raising temperature deal? dosent that just speed up the ich lifecycle. i dont get how that could kill them off.

and of course if you did the QT thing you would have to leave ur tank fishless for 4-6 weeks but that is the best way to guarantee ur inverts or plants wont suffer.


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> even if you treat all the fish outside the tank, the larvea can live in the tank without a host for a month.


A month? Got any references? 

I'd medicate as well. I've used Rid Ich+ without any harm to the plants, or staining the silicone. Just follow the directions and treat a few days after all white spots are gone. 

BTW, raising the temperature alone (unless it's really high) won't kill ich, but will speed up the life cycle, so you can kill the susceptible stage quicker.


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## blazeyreef (Mar 17, 2008)

prototyp3 said:


> Thanks for the comments.
> 
> I finally hooked up the CO2 today, I'm sure the plants are celebrating. I need to get a couple check valves so I can run my night time air pump for extra oxygen. The low surface agitation is scary.. On one hand I can raise up the pipes to agitate the surface, but then I deal with a little extra noise. Or I go with the air pumps at night, but that adds to the clutter in, and under, the tanks.
> 
> ...


with taylor swift AND two awesome fish tanks to drool over, I would never get any work done :icon_roll


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Update time: 

Ick is a thing of the past. I ended up pulling the fish and treated them to higher temps, a bit of salt, the UV sterilizer, daily water changes and a ton of food. They are big and healthy now. I'm keeping them in their quarantine tank because I'm not quite sure they're what I want for my new scape.

Yes, a new scape already.. I lent my brother my 8g finnex tank awhile back and he ran it into the ground. No water changes, no top offs, thing had about 2" of water left in it. So after slapping him around for a bit, I decided to set it up as a joint effort with my bestfriend. It's on his kitchen counter and we stuffed it with anubias petite and marsilea minuta, a couple branches of manzanita and seiryu stone. I'll have to get a picture of it next time I'm over there.

My tank here turned into a hill scape. I wanted a tree stump with exposed roots but all of my great stump pieces are a little too big for the tank. That 11" front to back doesn't give much room. (do I setup a deeper tank or sell these pieces..) So I skipped that part and instead went with some anubias nana to hopefully give the impression of a forest's edge. The rest is filled with Taiwan moss, and a couple nodes of marsilea minuta scattered about. I'd love to get a few different mosses for different spots of the scape. Like weeping moss overhanging the rock faces, flame either in the back or as a field to the left. If anyone has a bit of those mosses, please PM if you have some available.

Please the excuse the icky glass, the floating mass, and the petite hitch hikers on the spray bar.


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## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

certainly very cool.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

looks great! would look 10x better with lily pipes instead of those ugly plastic pipes! Just kidding... well not really... lol


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## BichirAddict (Aug 19, 2008)

Looks great both very clean. Your aquascaping on the last 2 are awesome I think.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Great looking tanks. I would put those Cardinals back in the tank on the right and throw some snowball shrimp in the left one.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I think maybe I overlooked something important. I'm using sand and have about 8 inches of depth in the back. I'm sure at that depth I'll have some compacting which will lead to some pockets of nasty growing. Especially with no rooted plants in there.. Might have to overhaul it. I also don't like having my intake so high, doing a water change almost exposes it to air. Might rescape today, even though I was liking this one.. 

chonhzilla: Thanks.

MedRed: You ADA snob.  Glass would look better, until they get dirty! Seriously, no exaggeration, how long do yours take to get gunked up? I can't see going past a month. Even the hoses get gunked up and they aren't exposed to the light like the pipes are. 

BichirAddict: Thank you. I think making mistakes and having to redo the scape each week makes for good practice!

bsmith782: I think I'm with you on the snowballs. Even without a dark substrate I think they'd look nice against the dark rocks and wood. The rowdy cardinals might bring out my shy school of pygmy corys, but they'd also ravage their food. They've turned into monstrous eaters. And 14 cardinals + 14 pygmys might be pushing it. With normal weekly water changes it should be fine though.

Off to the drawing board for new layout ideas!


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

This will be a great experiment proto. I cleaned the pipes on one tank 12/9. I'd never cleaned them before. I am out of town until 1/5. I'll take pics then. I'll also take pics with rena gear in the tank. Finally i'll wait until the pipes are gross. we'll settle this once and for all!


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

How about some MTS in the tank with the deep sand? They dont eat plants, reproduce fairy slowly, clean up leftovers AND eat GDA/GSA!

Im with you on the Cardinals they are fairly aggressive at meal time. Remember they are in the same family as piranhas.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

MedRed, that's a great idea. I'm sure there's quite a few people who'd be interested in knowing how long the glass pipes stay pretty. Your 3-4 week test should provide some useful data!

Bsmith782, I thought of MTS but I read they don't like to go too deep into the substrate, especially with heavy rocks applying pressure to the substrate. I think I'm going to rescape, FUN!
And yeah, these little blue and red piranhas are ridiculous. They've been breaking the water's surface when they anticipate a feeding coming their way. Now I'm scared to put them into the topless tank, they'll probably end up on the floor during their feeding frenzy.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

MedRed, hope you had a nice trip. Any chance you remembered to snap photos of the glassware to see how clean or dirty it was after a month away? I'm dying to know! :thumbsup:


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

prototyp3 said:


> MedRed, hope you had a nice trip. Any chance you remembered to snap photos of the glassware to see how clean or dirty it was after a month away? I'm dying to know! :thumbsup:



well. they are very very clean... the reason being is that my my powerstrip reset itself. The tank had no lights for 3 weeks. Every plant in the tank except for the cyperus helferi is dead. :-(. I do have another option though.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/78153-so-whats-deal-lily-pipes.html#post760438


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Getting ready to scape the left tank again. I'm torn between showing off the rocks in an iwagumi style scape or filling it up with a bunch of bolbitis fern. 

The fern idea is attractive for it's low maintenance and general hardiness. It would also create a dim environment which shows off cardinals best in my opinion. Not sure what I'd use for a carpet around the rocks. Maybe fissidens? I know I'd want to keep open sand in the front and sides to give it that island look. 









I love the look of iwagumi pictures I've seen online, they're fantastic. I just don't know if the simplicity would be boring as an everyday tank. I'd probably want to mix the species for more interest. Like a blyxa background running down to e. tenellus with glosso upfront. (is glosso really a pain to keep trimmed up nicely?) I also love the messy flowing look of UG, I've been considering that. Here's an arragement I considered for a iwagumi look. Of course I'd stagger the heights of the rocks to create more interest and depth. My carpet is low pile and doesn't allow that capability. :thumbsdow









Any ideas?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The first scape looks insanely amazing!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

What kind of rocks?


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

I like the second rock arrangement, but I agree that a Bolbitis fissidens tank would look cool and low maintenance. 

Glosso, I had a hard time keeping it "low" like I saw in soo many pictures. I had high light and kept pruning it, but it kept growing UP. It finally got full of algae so I had to tear it out.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

clwatkins10: Thanks. I'm going to show my girl your comment so she gets off my case about "playing with rocks." Nothing wrong with a grown man sitting on the floor all afternoon arranging rocks and trying to get them balanced for a photograph, haha.

craigthor: It's seiryu stone. I wasn't really happy with stones right out of the box, but a hammer and chisel took care of that. The rock is really fragile so a few "tap tap" and you can break it along it's angular veins. The breaks can be unpredictable though, leaving you with an expensive collection of useless rubble. 

helgymatt: That's what is keeping me from jumping into the whole iwagumi thing. I've read a lot of issues like that about the various carpeting plants. I don't want to do battle with plants, I just want them to sit tight and look pretty. I definitely value low maintenance!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I got to pushing the rocks around and fell into a mountain scape. I could see a carpet of HC, patches of glosso around the rocks, and perhaps a background of hydrocotyle verticillata to give the impression of tree canopies.

I kind of wanted to plant a mix of grass plants though. Those fit better into more of a hillside type rock arrangement though. Not sure if I want to run with this scape and be stuck with the small scale plants (especially if they're difficult) or if I should re-arrange for the grassy hillside look.. I think I'll have to sleep on it.


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## Agent Zero (Dec 24, 2008)

Sweet set up or I should say Setups!


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

If you have any petites, narrow ferns, bolbitis, etc. and want another uv sterilizer, hit me up.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

I will say that all of the scapes get progressively better. I really like how you have cultivated the ability to show a sense of depth in this tank very well. In the current scape, I reccomend staying with small plants to increase a sense of proportion between the rocks and plants.

Looks good!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

rountreesj: I don't really have a need for another uv sterilizer. But thanks for the offer.

And I decided I won't be doing an iwagumi at this time. I'm going to adjust the rocks a bit to create a central island, bolbitis in the far back, anubias coffefolia below it with anubias petite just infront of that, and glosso. Open sand front and sides, and maybe some tall red crypts in the back corners to provide a backdrop. That's the plan. 

Here's the neighboring tank, still undergoing some changes. I pulled the dual intake pipe along the back and replaced it with a surface skimmer.
Oh, and the little guys up top are the baby cardinals. They have blue eyes and a shiny stripe, so at least I think they are!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

baby cards? nice  the scape looks great. anything going in the background?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Right now the background is some c. willisii which hasn't really grown in much. I'm going to fill in the back corners with more bolbitis.

And here's a shot of the fry. They look like cardinals to my untrained eye. Anyone with experience feel free to chime in.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I changed my dosing routine to an easier everyday thing. 5ml of one bottle, 2.5ml of the other bottle, even I can't screw that up! It's the PMDD style EI outlined by Tom Barr. I must say I noticed a change in overall health after making the switch. I'm guessing it's the stability resulting from doing the same thing and same amount day in and day out. It even seems to have cleared up a weird black algae (looked like a black version of green spot) that was covering my rocks.

So I'm happy to continue growing plants until I get around to re-arranging and tidying up the tank.

Oh, and the babies are not cardinals. Now that they're bigger I can see their fins and they appear to be some sort of dwarf rainbowfish.


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## Pinto (Jan 23, 2009)

That's some awesome rocks!!
Nice setup!
"some sort of dwarf rainbowfish" meaning you didn't know you had that fish?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Pinto said:


> That's some awesome rocks!!
> Nice setup!
> "some sort of dwarf rainbowfish" meaning you didn't know you had that fish?


Thank you.
I didn't have _any_ fish when I first noticed the babies. :eek5: They showed up a few days after I introduced some new plants from the LFS. The eggs must have hitchhiked in on them. Can't wait until they get a little bigger so I can accurately ID them.


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## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

I have enjoyed reading this thread and seeing all the diferent scapes you have come up with. Will be interesting to see what you settle with for awhile, and also what the baby fish turn out to be.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Tank updates..
The left tank was thrown together using whatever plants I had laying around. The left side is a bunch of bolbitis ferns, with various mosses wedged into the cracks of the stone. I have to tie down more moss to create a little carpet spilling out from the stones. On the right is blyxa, anubias coffeefolia, and a reborn red tiger lotus that came to me as a frozen bulb. Not the most complimentary selection of plants, but my shrimp don't mind,









The right tank had the bolbitis pulled, I shifted some of the needle leaf to the left, and re-arranged some stones on the right. Planted a few sprigs of ET in there which I hope take off. I'd like to replace the marsilea with it to provide a lighter green carpet to make the dark greens of the anubias petite pop. I'll eventually move the downoi back further and into the rocks. I just planted them within the last couple weeks so I don't want to uproot them just yet. And the downoi seems to be the pygmy corys favorite hangout, so I can't mess with their new clubhouse.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Looks nice, what kind of substrate is that?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Jdinh04 said:


> Looks nice, what kind of substrate is that?


Thanks. The substrate is pool filter sand. I found a place that actually had natural colored filter sand. I like it as it's a breeze to plant in.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Close up of a wall of petite. It grows pretty quickly being in the path of the outflow.


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## naturalwonders (Dec 24, 2008)

Hey, those are some nice tanks. BTW, what kind of camera did you use to take those photos?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

naturalwonders said:


> Hey, those are some nice tanks. BTW, what kind of camera did you use to take those photos?


Thanks. I'm using a dinosaur of a camera, a Canon G3.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Looking great dude! Any chance we can get a wide shot of the whole enchilada?


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## hilikus16 (Nov 6, 2008)

I keep seeing all these nice carpets of lush, dark green marselia. I'm so jealous! Mine just won't take off, and the few runners that do, won't turn a dark green like yours...just more of a yellow. 

You sure have some great looking tanks!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Here is the shot of the whole enchilada as you enter the office. Pardon the clutter surrounding it.










Hilikus16: Are you fertilizing the tank? Injecting CO2? My new growth comes in as a lighter green but it quickly darkens up. I don't think light has to do with it, as mine all exhibit the same color whether in shade or out in the open.


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## hilikus16 (Nov 6, 2008)

> Hilikus16: Are you fertilizing the tank? Injecting CO2? My new growth comes in as a lighter green but it quickly darkens up. I don't think light has to do with it, as mine all exhibit the same color whether in shade or out in the open.


I'm dosing the PPS pro method for macros, seachem flourish comprehensive for micros, and seachem iron. I have 2x1L DIY co2 system. I'm really not sure whats going on with my marselia.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

That's weird. Even in my friend's tank with no ferts they still end up dark green in color. I've read that there's quite a few different species, maybe it's minuta's long lost lighter skinned cousin? :hihi:


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

I agree that the marsilea blends in to the anubias petites when that close to each other, I suggest keep the marsilea and let me get the Petites. LOL.

Oh did you ever get an Id on the fry? How many did you end up with?

And of course the tanks look great.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Looking good! That Downoi seems to be pretty happy, and can I assume the Blyxa pulled through?


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## timme278 (Jan 1, 2009)

wow.... i love how you have 2.... most tanks are just one and dont realy interact with other tanks neer it.... but they are like 2 peas ina pod.... lushhh 

subscribed xD


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

rekles75 said:


> I agree that the marsilea blends in to the anubias petites when that close to each other, I suggest keep the marsilea and let me get the Petites. LOL.
> 
> Oh did you ever get an Id on the fry? How many did you end up with?
> 
> And of course the tanks look great.


I think those petites are going to be with be until the tank gets broken down for moving. And even then I'll probably pack those away to take along with me. :hihi:

9 of the them survived, I spooked 3 into the filter when I was netting them out to transfer tanks. Oops. No positive ID yet.. Leads me to believe they're a bigger fish as it's taking longer for them to mature. And they're being fed well, fat bellies on all of them. I'll have to browse some photos to see what they look like. The body has a salmon pink color, with a blue stripe that turns darker as it reaches the tail. The eyes are a reflective yellow/green. I'll try to capture a photo of them..



roybot73 said:


> Looking good! That Downoi seems to be pretty happy, and can I assume the Blyxa pulled through?


Downoi is very happy, it's been growing so well I had to give it a trim. The blyxa that I didn't give the 'haircut' to bounced back. So let that be a lesson to anyone considering chopping a damaged blyxa down, DON'T! Let the plants work their recuperative magic.



timme278 said:


> wow.... i love how you have 2.... most tanks are just one and dont realy interact with other tanks neer it.... but they are like 2 peas ina pod.... lushhh
> 
> subscribed xD


Thank you. I had been battling for awhile trying to figure out how much contrast or uniformity should be between the two tanks. Then I gave up and just went with this, haha. Right now I'm just happy to be growing healthy plants.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Last picture before I tear this tank down for a rescape. I was at the LFS and found a great deal on some driftwood. I figured it'd be nice to pull the rocks and go with a driftwood scape. Both tank have too similar of a rock scape at the moment. I plan to use the pulled rocks to complete the mountain range in the other tank. 

The downoi and ET have been growing great for me, so I plan to use those for the mid and foreground around the driftwood with the needle leaf fern tucked into the driftwood centerpiece. Then in the other tank I'm going to extend the rock formation across the tank, and have a complete bolbitis background with a possible marsilea minuta and anubias petite mid and foreground.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Your tank has grown into quite the stunner!


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

^^ Seriously! Very nice!


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## Esox lucius (Feb 17, 2009)

awesome tanks dude!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow awesome Downoi!


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## H82LOS3 (Mar 5, 2009)

wow love the tank


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

Cant wait to see, You know part of the fun of this hobby is the recape so enjoy and post plenty of pics.


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## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

A couple of nice looking display tanks! When I found this thread I was hoping you did the reef system, but having 2 planted displays are just as nice. BTW my home office looks much like yours, but with a 55 gal display on each side of my workstation. 
Anyway nice thread to read, keep us updated!
md


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks everyone. The downoi is doing fantastic. I kept it once before but never had it grow as nice or fast as it is now. Hopefully the tank shakeup won't change that.

Mountaindew: You got me destroyed in water volume though! I'm dying for more space so consider me envious. I already got the lady to sign off on one large custom tank for our next place though. (she hates tanks) I'm tinkering with the idea of a custom long shallow tank, something like 96x15x15 inches, rimless but drilled for a sump. I absolutely hate the changing water level, so that would fix that problem. I want a low maintenance and low light tank with a huge school of fish, probably rummynose.

And here's a crumby picture of the two new pieces of driftwood, not arranged correctly. But it shows the nice grain and character of the thicker front piece. Whenever I find great looking pieces they're always too long for a 60P or they have unnaturally cut ends. This one is a beauty and scaled correctly. (I hope) I wanted thick pieces of wood to show off, not to hide or disappear into the plants. I think these should fit the bill.










I


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Nice dw! I can't wait for you to get that custom tank, it sounds awesome


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Yeah, the super long tank would be exciting. Kind of close to happening, as I'm now negotiating on a new job that would be getting me into a new place where the tank would happen! :thumbsup:

And here's a quick scribble showing the basic idea I have for the tank and the driftwood island. I have a couple other ideas I want to scribble down before scaping tomorrow. I know I want exposed wood upfront, and bushy ferns behind it with bare branches poking out. I want to keep the wood visible, but broken up by the green of the plants.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I likey...


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

prototyp3 said:


>


Your mock-up is amazing. This looks fantastic. How did you do this? I am in LOVE. :redface:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

^^^
This will be sweet!
Wacom tablet?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

dude screw the real thing just draw your tanks from now on. it'll save you ALOT of money  for real, it looks like a solid plan.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Haha, just paint tanks instead of actually maintaining them? You might be onto something there. No dosing or water changing, mmm...
And yeah, I have a Wacom that I scribble with.

Here's a picture the day it was planted. Not exactly what I was aiming for but it was a long day and I just wanted to get it done and get out of the house.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

It sure looks nice!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

These tanks came out great, love the dual setup.

You wouldn't happen to be the Prototype that was in the myspace graphics forums a few years back, would you?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks guys. 
And no, I never cruised the Myspace art forums. It'd have to my doppleganger!

Here's a little over a week update on the tank. Everything is perking up a bit.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Dang that stuff is growing fast


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Well I broke down the tanks and sold off a LOT of plants. I had some bits and pieces left over so I decided to keep one for the next month or so before moving. Here is what was remaining and thrown together.










Sales will resume next month. :thumbsup:


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

It was such a beautiful setup and it was growing fast too. Too bad they had to go. Hopefully you have not sold the wood. 

Looking forward to a new setup after your move.


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## deondrec (Sep 30, 2008)

where did you get the black inflows and outflows?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I like the new scape.
Too bad it's temporary.


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## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

I like both of those setups alot


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