# Super deep substrates: How does Amano do it?



## alexei (May 8, 2012)

I am perplexed on how Amano keeps his substrates happy. I've seen enough videos of him pouring in bags upon bags of aquasoil up to depths of 12+". How do these depths not go anaerobic?


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## CatB (Jan 29, 2012)

Mts?
that was weird, it didn't let me capitalize the whole thing


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Its definitely not MTS. It is limited or it should be limited to lower depths. The deeper the substrate the higher compact risk which creates anaerobic bacteria. Not good. AS is different, it allows better water flow than other substrates. Its probably the highest cost substrate out there but I hear nothing but good stuff about it. If you think about it, its not much more than Eco lb per lb. 

I have asked on the depth subject in a few post on the MTS thread recently and some other thread. Pretty useful info. Check it out. You could use something underneath the substrate to give it height first and then go with your finer planting substrate. The few suggestions I got was eggcrate structures, lava rock and chick grit. My intent is to save money on substrate. Especially with the large footprint tank I am planning. If your not using AS you will want to be alot more cautious on your depth.


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## zchauvin (Apr 16, 2011)

All you have to do is buy all of the Ada substrate and bacterias then get a few people to put it into containers ect for you and pour it in. Then you must take down the tank every 6-24 months and re do the display. Simple!!!

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## alexei (May 8, 2012)

I have seen the same suggestions of using eggcrate or something to build up a false floor. I have given that some thought, but that adds in more issues with setting up the tank than it solves. I think he uses Power Sand-L as a base layer in these big tanks, I guess this could act along the lines of lava rock to help prevent compaction (I think the L is fairly chunky). I hope someone like Frank could help and weigh in on this, as I have not a clue and am only guessing.


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## PamAndJim (Sep 15, 2010)

CatB might be referring to MTS as in Malaysian Trumpet Snails. They can help keep a deep substrate stirred up and aerated. Although I don't recall ever seeing snails in Amano tanks. They would be hard to see in tanks of that size though.


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## s_s (Feb 15, 2012)

Basically, Amano's tanks aren't set up long enough to go anaerobic.

To be perfectly honest, it's kind of like how not everyone gets to drive concept cars.


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## alexei (May 8, 2012)

I did have in the back of my mind the idea that he doesn't leave them setup long enough for this to be an issue...


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## vincenz (Jan 29, 2012)

flight50 said:


> If you think about it, its not much more than Eco lb per lb.


That's not entirely true. Here, a bag of AS is about $45. You can get a bag of EC for $17 from Petco.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

AS is so light, and the power sand is chunky so it allows water flow underneith.

Who has had anarobic pockets here? I had one in a tank with 5" of playsand and that wasn't poked or disturbed for a couple years. That's it in 14 years of planted tanks.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Some believe that as soon as Hydrogen sulfide makes contact with oxygen in the water that the gas is rendered harmless, but I wonder if creatures near the bottom, or bottom dwelling fishes, would not be affected more readily as oxygen at lower levels would maybe not be as high as that near the surface?
I am more inclined to place trumpet snails in deeper substrate tank's and poke at it occasionally.
I have sand tank's no deeper than two inches that have never been disturbed, and fishes,shrimps do well.


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## BS87 (Apr 9, 2012)

I have them like crazy in my 29g. 1" of MGOCP, + 1" of aquarium sand. At least once per day i see bubbles pop up from the dirt layer, and boy do they smell nasty. My parameters are fine though, the fish actually seem to enjoy _playing_ in them when they float up, so :shrug:


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## Aquaticfan (Oct 30, 2011)

alexei said:


> I did have in the back of my mind the idea that he doesn't leave them setup long enough for this to be an issue...


This. 

There is alot of difference in someone looking to have an aquarium for keeping and growing and doing what alot of us normal folks do vs some of the high end scape's.

There are even folks that do scape's that dont have any fish in them til its time to take pictures then they get the fish toss them in and bang take breathtaking shots. But in reality its quite possible/probable that to get the scape the way they did the Co2 levels and such are so crazy high that fish wouldnt survive. So they kill it before adding fish add the fish and take the pics. 

In fact I think ive seen Tom Barr mention this very thing. For alot of us this is not what keeping plants or fish is about. For most of us we keep them together and at all times. Its unfortunate I think cause it gives alot of unrealistic ideas. Im not knocking anyone or trying to down play. But I think its important for those of us doing real aquatic planted tanks with life in them to know what is actually what.


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## s_s (Feb 15, 2012)

Aquaticfan said:


> ... For alot of us this is not what keeping plants or fish is about.


Right. Amano is a concept designer. Most people here are aquarists. Different goals. 

He creates coffee table books--not living, breathing, sustainable habitats.


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## CatB (Jan 29, 2012)

PamAndJim said:


> CatB might be referring to MTS as in Malaysian Trumpet Snails. They can help keep a deep substrate stirred up and aerated. Although I don't recall ever seeing snails in Amano tanks. They would be hard to see in tanks of that size though.


yeah, that's what i meant, not mineralized topsoil. my bad.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

I agree completely. I've heard they relentlessly clean the tanks before they take these glamour shots. That means they take all the rocks out carefully and scrub them to perfection, scrub the glass and detail the tank like they do at a car dealership before they resell a car. its crazy. I never got into this hobby so I could take breathtaking pictures. I'm just a guy trying to grow some plants and keep some fish healthy and happy. Just sayin


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

The Trigger said:


> I agree completely. I've heard they relentlessly clean the tanks before they take these glamour shots. That means they take all the rocks out carefully and scrub them to perfection, scrub the glass and detail the tank like they do at a car dealership before they resell a car. its crazy. I never got into this hobby so I could take breathtaking pictures. I'm just a guy trying to grow some plants and keep some fish healthy and happy. Just sayin


That same hard work ethic is then applied to the photography as well.
They also invest a lot more labor per nit time for each aquarium than the typically hobbyists might do.

I have tanks with ADA that are 6-7 years old and 10-12" deep in the rear without issues. My 180 has been going since Feb 2006. 


If there is not much organic matter in the sediment, then the reduction CANNOT take place at an intense level. So you will not get hydrogen sulfide etc. Also, strong root growth will add a lot of O2 to the sediment, this fact is over looked in most sediment discussions. Same is true for MTS tanks, but the redox will be more negative at a shallower depth depending on how much organic matter is added, they do tend to mineralize the MTS prior to use for this reason. 

About Amano's tanks, they are live tanks with ample fish, they are not mere displays, they require a fair amount of labor and care, many in the USA do not put that much work into their tanks. Same is true for their landscaping gardens. 

ADA has gassed fish and over/under shot CO2 plenty, we all have if you set up enough aquariums. But most of the larger tanks have a lot of fish and also wet/dry over flow filtration systems.

You can see the video of the 4 meter tank with the lava stone set up on you tube with translations in English. There's no trickery, but that quality and level of work does not come cheap.


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

s_s said:


> He creates coffee table books--not living, breathing, sustainable habitats.


Really?? Fish look happy to me. Have you watched his YouTube channel? Some of those tanks have been set up since September. Still going strong...


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Oh I agree 100% Tom. Their tanks are amazing, and the attention to detail is unparalleled. But you're also right in the fact that we don't all have the time to dedicate that much time and effort into making our tanks look as pristine as Amanos. I guess when youre Takashi Amano and your entire life and career is dedicated to aquariums, plants, photography etc., than that's where all your focus goes. I wish I had time for all that. Work and college doesn't grant me that luxury lol


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## Aquaticfan (Oct 30, 2011)

s_s said:


> Right. Amano is a concept designer. Most people here are aquarists. Different goals.
> 
> He creates coffee table books--not living, breathing, sustainable habitats.



And you know the biggest problem with it is?..........

Most people that see his and others scapes dont realize or know the facts behind it all. Its kinda like a magic trick and the illusion is done but real aquarist dont know that. So they try really hard to do the same things and then run into tons and tons of issues and wonder why they cant get that to work as a living breathing sustainable habitat. Especially new comers to the hobby that see it and want to pull it off.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Im sure they're perfectly established and functioning aquariums. The problem is people see them and think that they're going to get a tank that looks just like ones you see in the pictures or videos ADA takes. In order to do this you need three things. 1. A large staff to maintain these aquariums every hour of the day to keep them looking perfect at all times. 2. Lots of time to dedicate to everything that goes into keeping the tanks looking the way they do. And 3........wait for it......wait for it......money. lots and lots of money to pay a staff, the best lighting, equipment and a large space to do all this. Everything come down to money in the end


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've noticed that he will use a plant with good roots in a deep substrate, not always but mostly. I have 5 inches of Flourite and I see roots spread all across the bottom glass, so I'm sure the roots go a lot deeper in a rich substrate like AS, even on smaller plants.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I am a fan of deep substrate, I've never once seen my aquasoil burp, 5-6 inches deep in some tanks


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

s_s said:


> Right. Amano is a concept designer. Most people here are aquarists. Different goals.
> 
> He creates coffee table books--not living, breathing, sustainable habitats.





Aquaticfan said:


> And you know the biggest problem with it is?..........
> 
> Most people that see his and others scapes dont realize or know the facts behind it all. Its kinda like a magic trick and the illusion is done but real aquarist dont know that. So they try really hard to do the same things and then run into tons and tons of issues and wonder why they cant get that to work as a living breathing sustainable habitat. Especially new comers to the hobby that see it and want to pull it off.





The Trigger said:


> Im sure they're perfectly established and functioning aquariums. The problem is people see them and think that they're going to get a tank that looks just like ones you see in the pictures or videos ADA takes. In order to do this you need three things. 1. A large staff to maintain these aquariums every hour of the day to keep them looking perfect at all times. 2. Lots of time to dedicate to everything that goes into keeping the tanks looking the way they do. And 3........wait for it......wait for it......money. lots and lots of money to pay a staff, the best lighting, equipment and a large space to do all this. Everything come down to money in the end


These are grossly inaccurate posts.

I dont know what else to say other than that.

jB


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Jason Baliban said:


> These are grossly inaccurate posts.
> 
> I dont know what else to say other than that.
> 
> jB


Yeah, I'm with Jason on this one. Amano's tanks aren't setup and torn down. I've seen countless scapes that span years. His whole mantra is about recreating nature and having as healthy an aqua scape as possible. 

I asked it before, I'll ask it again. Who has found anarobic pockets in their tanks? Everyone worries about it as if it's a plague. How many threads have you seen that say "omg, anarobic pockets killed my fish!!!?!?!". Countless treads about ei killing fish, prime killing fish, excel killing fish, Martians from Mars killing fish. In all my years of this forum I remember maybe one tread about an anarobic incident.


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## takadi (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm speculating but I did have an incident a while back when I was first trying out mineralized topsoil. My guess is that something in the soil must have poisoned the water because a whole school of my swordtails and cories have I've had for over a year just dropped dead within a couple weeks. The substrate just kept burping, so I wondered if my MTS just wasn't mineralized enough or there were impurities in the topsoil I used that killed the fish. Half a year later, the fish are doing fine...I only get burps from the sand portion of my tank. I use turface btw


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

The Trigger said:


> Oh I agree 100% Tom. Their tanks are amazing, and the attention to detail is unparalleled. But you're also right in the fact that we don't all have the time to dedicate that much time and effort into making our tanks look as pristine as Amanos. I guess when youre Takashi Amano and your entire life and career is dedicated to aquariums, plants, photography etc., than that's where all your focus goes. I wish I had time for all that. Work and college doesn't grant me that luxury lol


True, not everyone's goal will be at the same level.
But it is nice to know that it can be done and taken to that level.
That promotes and enhances the hobby.

I've seen a number of well designed and neglected tanks, I often do these for clients since they often cannot/do not care for the tanks that much.
There's no reason ADA does not also do this for many practical and aesthetic reasons.
Some tanks are not and they require more labor, but on a larger tank, this is more once every few months type of thing, on a 60p? Well, weekly is not bad and then it only takes a few minutes.
Same with a water change or wipe the glass, good craftsmanship is not impossible.

Still, the anaerobic myth is well.....a myth, ADA or most any other sediment I've used and tried. 
MTS might have issues for many reasons, but the sandy clay loam from a good clean source is excellent and never caused any poor plant growth and I've used 100's of pots of the stuff growing aquatic weeds for the lab.


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## alexei (May 8, 2012)

Liam, Tom, Jason and everyone else, thanks for your input. You have remove my fears I will lay it on thick


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## Cardinal's Keeper (May 19, 2012)

In regards to the OP question and how ADA approaches this dilema, here is a good video. From aprox 3:30 they discuss how they deal with the depth and continue discussing substrate until around 7:00. Should clear it up somewhat for you, not that we could all afford to do it! 

Also, there is the old dutch method of using heater cables. I have used and do use them and they help with keeping movement through the substrate. I have had tanks setup with deep substrate for over 3 years without issue. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCMe-bu4-tk

I highly recommend watching the whole video and all of their other videos. Very informative and beautiful to watch.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

alexei said:


> Liam, Tom, Jason and everyone else, thanks for your input. You have remove my fears I will lay it on thick


Well, just take good care of the plants, be a good overall hobbyists, you need not spend every min working on the tank, bu just be consistent, a little trim, a little cleaning, and little water changing (or a lot) and a I little dosing etc will go a long way. 

Observe and adjust CO2 well, that's about the hardest thing for new folks to learn.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Cardinal's Keeper said:


> In regards to the OP question and how ADA approaches this dilema, here is a good video. From aprox 3:30 they discuss how they deal with the depth and continue discussing substrate until around 7:00. Should clear it up somewhat for you, not that we could all afford to do it!
> 
> Also, there is the old dutch method of using heater cables. I have used and do use them and they help with keeping movement through the substrate. I have had tanks setup with deep substrate for over 3 years without issue.
> 
> ...


I've got 7 years without heater cables and 7 years without power sand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3VNwfNtNA0

I have not found any validity to the claim about depth, sediments or compaction. Prior to ADA, the heat cable crowd used to debate me all the time, but never offered anything other than the same exact comments that ADA also curiously promotes.

"Subtle long term stability", "not something you can see in tanks except subtle things over long time frames"

Which is to say, these additives and issues are not significant different vs not using them at all. If they want to promote them, then show me they actually help grow plants over time.

Flow is optimal according to Tropica and several other commercial aquatic plant growers without any flow, mere diffusion alone is sufficient. Ask ADA or heater cable person what optimal rates of flow at those depths. If they cannot answer it, then how can they know and determine what is even optimal? 

Adding to all these talks, ADA claims, they often bring up natural processes and bacteria/additives etc....but ignore the aquatic plant root's very own root systems which enhance and actively define sediments. Those roots act like pipes adding O2 and allowing far more bacterial biomass to exist.


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## HiepSTA (Aug 23, 2011)

is that staurugyne repens as the carpeting plant in that tank?


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## Cardinal's Keeper (May 19, 2012)

Plantbrain, good to know what has been successful for you. 

I am not endorsing ADA's methods or am I part of the heater cable crowd. Merely offering information for others to consider. 

I will add that almost all my tanks over the past 25 yrs have not heater cables. And I have not had any issues as well. So I'm not sure where all the concern came from.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

vincenz said:


> That's not entirely true. Here, a bag of AS is about $45. You can get a bag of EC for $17 from Petco.


I have yet to see AS that high but your also in NY. You can go to the AFA site itself and see it for $28-29. Your $45 would probably be with shipping and I am not referring to shipping cost. If one does not venture to Petco or purchase from their web site, majority of the internet sells Eco for $24-25ish. AS at $45 and then shipping charges would put a good portion of us in the poor house for large tanks. That would limit most to small aquariums in with some of us don't want to be limited in that fashion. There is no way I'd even consider AS in a 125+ for $ a bag. There are deals all around the internet and lfs, its all about finding them or go with a different plan.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Cardinal's Keeper said:


> I am not endorsing ADA's methods or am I part of the heater cable crowd. Merely offering information for others to consider.


I know you are not a proponent. 

I can say what works for me ...but merely stating that "it works" does not in any way imply it works ...due to the power sand or the heat cables. This offers absolutely no support for the product claims. Maybe it's simply the clay nutrients in ADA AS, or one tank had better filtration/CO2 levels/general care etc. 

What I ask is hardly unreasonable. It is merely critical thinking. Promoting the myth does nothing............to help the hobby or help increase knowledge. I have issues telling folks the earth is flat when I know it's round. I like ADA, but I do not let my brains fall out and become some obsequious fool in the process either.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

HiepSTA said:


> is that staurugyne repens as the carpeting plant in that tank?


Yep.

Gets a good mow about 1x a month.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Cardinal's Keeper said:


> In regards to the OP question and how ADA approaches this dilema, here is a good video. From aprox 3:30 they discuss how they deal with the depth and continue discussing substrate until around 7:00. Should clear it up somewhat for you, not that we could all afford to do it!
> 
> Also, there is the old dutch method of using heater cables. I have used and do use them and they help with keeping movement through the substrate. I have had tanks setup with deep substrate for over 3 years without issue.
> 
> ...





Cardinal's Keeper said:


> Plantbrain, good to know what has been successful for you.
> 
> I am not endorsing ADA's methods or am I part of the heater cable crowd. Merely offering information for others to consider.
> 
> I will add that almost all my tanks over the past 25 yrs have not heater cables. And I have not had any issues as well. So I'm not sure where all the concern came from.





plantbrain said:


> I know you are not a proponent.
> 
> I can say what works for me ...but merely stating that "it works" does not in any way imply it works ...due to the power sand or the heat cables. This offers absolutely no support for the product claims. Maybe it's simply the clay nutrients in ADA AS, or one tank had better filtration/CO2 levels/general care etc.
> 
> What I ask is hardly unreasonable. It is merely critical thinking. Promoting the myth does nothing............to help the hobby or help increase knowledge. I have issues telling folks the earth is flat when I know it's round. I like ADA, but I do not let my brains fall out and become some obsequious fool in the process either.


As PB pointed out heating cables is a myth.
A simple test to show a slightly warm substrate is necessary would be to stick your fingers into a natural substrate where plants are growing at the height of summer. There you will find the substrate just a few inches down is cold. 

A process which I think hasn't been mentioned except by me is the process called _guttation, _first studied by Ole Pedersen back in the early 90's.
*Long-Distance Water Transport in Aquatic Plants.*

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12232030


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Jason Baliban said:


> These are grossly inaccurate posts.
> 
> I dont know what else to say other than that.
> 
> jB


I'd have to agree Jason, Amano is well know for thinking out the details of how to maintain his tanks so they withstand the test of time, he is also diligent with his maintenance programs.


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

150EH said:


> I'd have to agree Jason, Amano is well know for thinking out the details of how to maintain his tanks so they withstand the test of time, he is also diligent with his maintenance programs.


My statement was based on my personal layouts and experiences as well as my conversations with Amano himself. 

Generally i do not post on these types of threads, but when three different people post the same BS it can get dangerous and has to be stopped immediately for the knowledge of the rest of the community, no offense to the posters.

jB


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

jcgd said:


> Yeah, I'm with Jason on this one. Amano's tanks aren't setup and torn down. I've seen countless scapes that span years. His whole mantra is about recreating nature and having as healthy an aqua scape as possible.
> 
> I asked it before, I'll ask it again. Who has found anarobic pockets in their tanks? Everyone worries about it as if it's a plague. How many threads have you seen that say "omg, anarobic pockets killed my fish!!!?!?!". Countless treads about ei killing fish, prime killing fish, excel killing fish, Martians from Mars killing fish. In all my years of this forum I remember maybe one tread about an anarobic incident.


I've seen plenty of tank's with anaerobic area's and tore down tank's where the smell of sulfide was/is unmistakeable.
But these were not planted aquarium's.
I agree with the premise that large thriving plant mass would provide oxygen to roots and prevent much of this, but if plant's are few,,lot's of wood or rock, lot's of organic input, then under these area's and deep substrate, anaerobic condition is not out of the realm of possibility.IMHO


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I also think its possible, and it happens, but it's not this huge issue everyone makes it out to be. Especially with aqua soil or other super light substrates. Aqua soil can only settle so much as it has little weight. Playsand is another story.


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## theblondskeleton (Aug 28, 2009)

I had some really nasty anaerobic pockets in my 90 the last time I tore it down. It was old ADA AS (the stuff that fell apart so easily) that was underneath about 90 pounds of stone and had been buried for a year. There was no chance of getting roots down there. When I tore it up it stank like a pulp mill. That said: it never hurt my fish. This was a super extreme circumstance with many levels of "oops, should have thought that through better." I had discus in there, for crying out loud. 

Seems to me that if it isn't a myth, the likelihood is super low.


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## KH2PO4 (Jul 18, 2009)

So many comments from "instant experts". :thumbsdow

Too deep substrate? How deep is the substrate in nature?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

HiepSTA said:


> is that staurugyne repens as the carpeting plant in that tank?


Yep, intense Crypt like root systems. Hard to up root.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

KH2PO4 said:


> So many comments from "instant experts". :thumbsdow
> 
> Too deep substrate? How deep is the substrate in nature?


Good point.

I think by removing the plant root's impact on the sediment: this is naive. This is where much of the transformations of nutrients and cycling occur in wetlands. Bacteria as well. These processes are well understood, Reddy and Delaune have the best text book on the matter.

I've seen some weak attempts at support for power sand.
One has a pic of some BGA and muck where there are no plants or roots.
Then the next one they claim is with powersand the roots are looking good and we can see them.

This proves nothing. Cherry picking the examples to prove what you want to believe. The roots were missing from the "bad" case examples and present in the other. 

I have these same cases in several tanks (not just one) within the same tank even, without any powersand at all. The difference? One area is shaded and lacks plants(has some BGA etc and diatoms etc, but ............wait for it..........wait for it...............no.......plant...........roots for sometime). The other areas without any supposedly clogged sediment? Lots of plant roots. It actually gets more light and algae would be expected to grow better there. So we have a case where we have both in the same tank and no power sand is used. Difference? Plant roots alone are the overriding factor, not powersand/heat cables etc.
This observation can be shown many times in various sediment types, not just ADA. Plant roots can bore right into hard driftwood, extend well over 30cm long etc. Anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 of the biomass in a typical tank are roots if the plants are topped and allowed to grow their root systems fully.

Ignoring plant roots impact on the sediment is just nuts. 

For me a sediment needs to look good, hold onto the plants, not make a mess, have some nutrients stored in it for the long term.
The depth thing has long been a myth.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

theblondskeleton said:


> I had some really nasty anaerobic pockets in my 90 the last time I tore it down. It was old ADA AS (the stuff that fell apart so easily) that was underneath about 90 pounds of stone and had been buried for a year. There was no chance of getting roots down there. When I tore it up it stank like a pulp mill. That said: it never hurt my fish. This was a super extreme circumstance with many levels of "oops, should have thought that through better." I had discus in there, for crying out loud.
> 
> Seems to me that if it isn't a myth, the likelihood is super low.


This is a good case where adding a foam board or some inert type of placement liner would have helped out.

I used lava rock in a mesh bag in my 70 Gal manzigumi to fluff up the middle and not have the wood mash the soil, it also saved me 2 bags of ADA AS, so for 3$, I saved 80$ basically. I did not use it for anaerobic or depth reasons.
It's just fluff to build up and support the scape/structure.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

If you are going too go deep make sure you have your hardscape in first, do not put a a huge amount of rock on several inches of substrate and think it will be fine a year from now. You notice all of Amano's tanks are planned in advance, something most hobbyist overlook. One day of proper planning can save you alot of headaches, time and, as Tom pointed out in his example with using lava stone, money.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Amano learn the planning via disasters in the past. 
While it's GREAT to learn from experience, the best way is to make sure the experience is not your own

I'm actually quite surprised Amano did not anchor those stones in the 7 meter long tank in the Tokyo tower. Stones standing upright like that are begging to fall, he used foam boards under those. 

I would have trimmed the bottom of the stone and made them flush, then drilled flat slate/stone based onto the rocks. They would not even move and you could use them as support while trimming the tank later.

the draw back is you have more trouble positioning them, but some foam or rock shims can fix/adjust things and still maintain much better stability.


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

KH2PO4 said:


> So many comments from "instant experts".


...just add water. Ba dum splash!

jB


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