# ADA aquasoil



## boink (Nov 27, 2006)

3-4 9L bags would be sufficient


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

I use the powersand in all of my tanks. 

and compared to some substrates it's only dollars more for something much better.


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## ebichu (Mar 22, 2007)

Multiply the length and width of your tank, then multiply the depth you want the substrate to be.
Then convert it to litre, it should give you a rough idea of how many litre of substrate you need.

Its may be expensive, but check out the photo album for the results.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

eklikewhoa said:


> I use the powersand in all of my tanks.
> 
> and compared to some substrates it's only dollars more for something much better.


I heard too many complaints about how the PowerSand floats to the top when replanting. 


While I agree ADA is great for planting and aesthetics, it may not be the best solution if you're looking for something long-term (2+) years. Overtime it slowly turns into fine silt, the more you play with your tank - the faster it will break down. It all depends on your budget and how frequently you'd like to tear your tanks down.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

True that it doesn't allow you to go in and rip things up... powersand does not float and when layered properly it's not much of a problem...thin layer of powersand to a thick layer of aquasoil works perfect and in fact I just removed some plants from my tank that has super long roots and no powersand surfaced.

with the long term thing there are lots of people who have had aquasoil for a long amount of time and there was no problem with it turning to fine silt...and with other substrates they lose all their nutrients so I don't think it makes much difference if it did turn to mush.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

eklikewhoa said:


> True that it doesn't allow you to go in and rip things up... powersand does not float and when layered properly it's not much of a problem...thin layer of powersand to a thick layer of aquasoil works perfect and in fact I just removed some plants from my tank that has super long roots and no powersand surfaced.
> 
> with the long term thing there are lots of people who have had aquasoil for a long amount of time and there was no problem with it turning to fine silt...and with other substrates they lose all their nutrients so I don't think it makes much difference if it did turn to mush.


True. But all substrates will lose their nutrients overtime. You must also note that PowerSand contains all the nutrients (peat, laterite, macros, etc.) while AquaSoil is used for it's high CEC.

The difference is that with other substrates; the longer they remain in the aquarium, the better they get. Overtime it becomes loaded with beneficial bacteria that help in the breaking down of nutrients for plant use, it becomes an efficient relationship between the plants and bacteria. With AquaSoil you're going to have to throw it out and will lose a lot of that. AquaSoil would be too costly on larger aquariums (75G+).


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

So everyone is saying different stuff about this and it making me not even want to get it. Try and convince me why I should get it now.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Raul-7 said:


> True. But all substrates will lose their nutrients overtime. You must also note that PowerSand contains all the nutrients (peat, laterite, macros, etc.) while AquaSoil is used for it's high CEC.
> 
> The difference is that with other substrates; the longer they remain in the aquarium, the better they get. Overtime it becomes loaded with beneficial bacteria that help in the breaking down of nutrients for plant use, it becomes an efficient relationship between the plants and bacteria. With AquaSoil you're going to have to throw it out and will lose a lot of that. AquaSoil would be too costly on larger aquariums (75G+).


How would other substrates get better when aquasoil has to get thrown out? The way I see it either substrates will become loaded with "bacterial colony" and both substrates will slowly lose the nutrients the once provided. 

Also how would the aquasoil lower pH/KH like they advertise when all the stuff is in powersand? Have you ever seen powersand or aquasoil? Aquasoil is advertised to lower pH and KH while powersand is advertised to provide circulation and fertile nutrients as well as fertile nutrients.

Price wise.... it's not that much more when you break it down.. also 9L of aquasoil will give a std 10g 3-4" of substrate and have enough left over for an ADA mini-m which is a 5g..... Flourite has enough for a 2" thick layer in a std 10g.... maybe that's where the price comes in... there's more:icon_idea 

Aquasoil 9L = $26
Flourite 15lbs = $18.99 
Eco-complete 20lbs = $21.99
Florabase 12lbs = $21.99

now lets look at it again....looks like aquasoil is probably equivalent to the others when you judge them weight to weight and having used all of it I have to say that florabase is the only one that will come close to holding a dime to Aquasoil! and guess what....it's $21.99 for only 12lbs.


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## boink (Nov 27, 2006)

i think he meant that aquasoil breaks down over time and that the other ones dont, or dont do it as fast


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

boink said:


> i think he meant that aquasoil breaks down over time and that the other ones dont, or dont do it as fast


Which one doesnt? Flourite or Eco-complete?

They don't break down but yet they aren't on the same level when it comes to nutrients offered or even lower pH/KH. Is Florabase not almost exact to aquasoil when it comes to structure? it is almost twice as much as Aquasoil but yet Aquasoil is the expensive one?


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## boink (Nov 27, 2006)

well he said that aquasoil has all the nutrients in it and it cant get better--it loses nutrients and breaks down and accumulates bacteria colonies. The other substrates may not be as great as ADA stuff in regards to nutrients, but they get better in the sense that they accumulate bact. colonies. Im not saying anyone is better or worse, just clarifying what i think he said


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Anything and everything in contact with the tank will build bacteria colonies...


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

boink said:


> well he said that aquasoil has all the nutrients in it and it cant get better--it loses nutrients and breaks down and accumulates bacteria colonies. The other substrates may not be as great as ADA stuff in regards to nutrients, but they get better in the sense that they accumulate bact. colonies. Im not saying anyone is better or worse, just clarifying what i think he said


Raul does not know what he is talking about. He stated that the "You must also note that PowerSand contains all the nutrients (peat, laterite, macros, etc.) while AquaSoil is used for it's high CEC." That is not true. Aquasoil itself also has macro nutrients in it. I personally can say that it does not break down fast or as fast as he thinks. You will have no problem with the soil after a few years.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

55g should be 48x13, but pretty much the same.
You should be just fine with 4 bags. You'll probably have some left over. I used 4 1/2 bags on my 90 (48x18) and it was plenty. 
Also, I second what Ian said. Why is it that so many people use aquasoil ALONE if it doesn't contain high levels of nutrients (it does)? I use aquasoil with powersand and, yes, PS comes to the surface if you're not careful. I was a little sloppy with moving the substrate around and have to push down white pebbles every so often. No big deal though, it's a quick fix. The bottom line is, Aquasoil is head-and-shoulders above everything else I've tried (fluorite, gravel w/root tabs, sand w/peat). I'm getting stellar growth, less algae and I don't even dose every day like I used to! If you buy from ADA's website, you should be able to get 4 bags for $104 + shipping, I think. It's DEFINATELY worth it. I'll use it on all my tanks until something better comes out.


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

OK. 
Im going to get this stuff. I want the amazonia. Would 3 9L bags be enough plus like a layer under it of Power Sand SPECIAL-S 2 liter??? Is that what most do?


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Just wanted to throw in here:

I think a standard question for folks getting ready to try Aqua Soil for the first time should be:

What kind of water do You have? (Hard, Soft, What?)

I am one of the Hard water people whose first experience with Aqua Soil was Horrible, because I was *Unaware* of the Hard water effects. Seems I'm not alone.

Just wanting to try to get that thought out there to help prevent others from having such high-hopes just to have it all blow up in our face.......roud:


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

I have hard water from the tap. But i will be using DI water in the 55.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Naja002 said:


> Just wanted to throw in here:
> 
> I think a standard question for folks getting ready to try Aqua Soil for the first time should be:
> 
> ...



Check my ADA AS Melting [email protected] thread. There's a link on there to how to properly cycle your ADA AS before use. We have hard water here in LA and it wreaked havoc on my plants. They're growing now, but those first few weeks were pretty depressing.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hey epicfish,

I did, and that's what explained to me why my out-come was so bad. And it will help others *before* they go through our negative experience! And that's why I am bringing all of this up--I think we all need to keep that question (What kind of water do You have?) in the back of our mind in order to start asking folks and then giving them proper guidance.

I spent $165 shipped--for a *Disaster!* Wish I would have known then--what I know now! :hihi:


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Exactly. I think you and I should put together an ADA AquaSoil thread and have it stickied with proper cycling guidelines for people with hard water, etc...

Man, mine was about $180 shipped and what happened wasn't very pretty. I also lost close to $150 in plants too.


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## howie (Mar 27, 2007)

I am thinking about getting ADA AS. I have hard water. How should I go about this?


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

howie said:


> I am thinking about getting ADA AS. I have hard water. How should I go about this?


Read through this thread:

ADA AS + Melting Plants?!

And then followed the link to Shrimpnow.com posted by Fish Newb in post #52.

HTH



epicfish said:


> Exactly. I think you and I should put together an ADA AquaSoil thread and have it stickied with proper cycling guidelines for people with hard water, etc...
> 
> Man, mine was about $180 shipped and what happened wasn't very pretty. I also lost close to $150 in plants too.


I have no problem with that. If You want to start it I can throw in my experience and maybe 2 cents worth. As much as AS is touted--the Hard water deal needs to be passed around, so people know what's going on and what to expect and how to circumvent it. I didn't have a clue what was going on! I have decided to keep the AS I bought, but came very, very close to tossing it in the field! :hihi:


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

ianiwane said:


> Raul does not know what he is talking about. He stated that the "You must also note that PowerSand contains all the nutrients (peat, laterite, macros, etc.) while AquaSoil is used for it's high CEC." That is not true. Aquasoil itself also has macro nutrients in it. I personally can say that it does not break down fast or as fast as he thinks. You will have no problem with the soil after a few years.


I've read plenty on AquaSoil. AquaSoil only has a little NH4, other than that - it offers nothing but a water softner and high CEC (to bind to cations). The rest comes from the PowerSand, which acts as a bacteria medium and houses all the nutrients. Why do you think ADA markets all those substrate supplements that are supposed to be added before the AquaSoil? 

Now prove your latter statement. Show me ADA soil after 2 years of use where it's still rigid?


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

eklikewhoa said:


> Anything and everything in contact with the tank will build bacteria colonies...


True. But when you replace the old AquaSoil with new AquaSoil you're going to lose it all. The only bacteria left is in the PowerSand. But since most people don't use it, you lose out. 

As for the KH and pH, how long does it produce this water softening effect? No more than 6 months and it will stop, it will become saturated with Ca++ and Mg++.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

eklikewhoa said:


> How would other substrates get better when aquasoil has to get thrown out? The way I see it either substrates will become loaded with "bacterial colony" and both substrates will slowly lose the nutrients the once provided.
> 
> Also how would the aquasoil lower pH/KH like they advertise when all the stuff is in powersand? Have you ever seen powersand or aquasoil? Aquasoil is advertised to lower pH and KH while powersand is advertised to provide circulation and fertile nutrients as well as fertile nutrients.
> 
> ...


Maybe intially it outweighs the competition, but I can use Flourite for 10 years without replacing it. I cannot use the AquaSoil for 2 years without replacing it.


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

Raul... i think you should state your experinces with aquasoil over the last 10 years... 

how many tanks with aquasoil have you kept over the last 10 years? 
how many tanks have you setup with aquasoil in it and kept them running for over 2 years?

and what is it about fluorite, or ecocomplete that makes the substrate richer over time as compared to aquasoil?


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

Raul-7 said:


> I've read plenty on AquaSoil. AquaSoil only has a little NH4, other than that - it offers nothing but a water softner and high CEC (to bind to cations). The rest comes from the PowerSand, which acts as a bacteria medium and houses all the nutrients. Why do you think ADA markets all those substrate supplements that are supposed to be added before the AquaSoil?
> 
> Now prove your latter statement. Show me ADA soil after 2 years of use where it's still rigid?




Raul your previous statement was wrong. In essense you said aquasoil has no nutrients and all the nutrients were in the powersand. And now you change your statement saying there is ammonia in the aquasoil? What is that? Is it not a nutrient? lol. I cannot show you ada soil that is still rigid after two years but I can tell you after over a year it still is rigid. Jeff Senske has stated that he has had aquasoil for over 2 years with out it breaking down. BTW, Raul do you have ANY experience with aquasoil? ANY is the key word. If so please post about personal experiences.


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

i just checked Raul-7 profile and he is 19.... lets be nice. but knowing that does answer all my questions...


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

aquanut415 said:


> i just checked Raul-7 profile and he is 19.... lets be nice. but knowing that does answer all my questions...


He can read all the information he wants but with out the ability to apply it, it means nothing.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

ADA AS has NH4 and other macro nutrients including PO4.
It has less NO3 than ADA PS however.........

I have had the ADA AS for about 2 years in a 20 gallon and it did not appear to break down much if at all. If you set and maintain a good design and do not redo the tank often, I think it should last 5 years or more. 

While I had some issues on a massive tank, I still very much am a convert for smaller systems.

Still, for a lot of folks, there's no doubt as to the efficacy of ADA As on plant growth. It' is very good, better than EC or Flourite.
That's with non limiting water column fertilization also, so the difference is due to the sediment, and not other factors.
Some species really like ADA AS also, Rotalas, HC, Gloss, Tonias among others. Still, the nicest Erios I've seen where grown in EC...........

But the person used good water column ferts and kept them clean.
Time and patience can get you far and you can force a good scape and results, the issue is whether it makes life easier for you and the routine and what trade offs are at play.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## paradise (Dec 11, 2003)

hmm, I live in LA , I have hard water, I use aquasoil and no plants ever ever melted on me, I can't stop them from growing. It's all about knowing how to do it initially. I was taught correctly by people who do it for a living (Jeff Senske among others) and I have never had a problem with it. 

Raul DOES need to show us at least one tank. I am so tired of people talking about it that have never tried it, it's really quite tiring.


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

So, so much for my original question..... 3 bags is all i need or should i buy something else like power sand to put under it??? Im already paying 50 bucks to ship it ground might as well get something else that will work along with the AS.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

Tom this might change your statement about the nicest grown erios are in EC. This is an Eriocaulon Matto Grosso its about 10 inches+ across.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

If you want to do powersand get 3 bags of aquasoil and 2 small bags of powersand special. I would used a SS mesh over the powersand to prevent mixing.


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## paradise (Dec 11, 2003)

Agree with Ian, use a metal mesh, and lay it only where you need it, i.e. back of the tank. Then if you do a slope from front to back, it will be in the thicker area, and not in the foreground where it can come up.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

ianiwane said:


> Tom this might change your statement about the nicest grown erios are in EC. This is an Eriocaulon Matto Grosso its about 10 inches+ across.


Nope, it does not, but that is nice one
The nicest one is still in EC and was in Ohio actually.
Massive, clean, well formed.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Nope, it does not, but that is nice one
> The nicest one is still in EC and was in Ohio actually.
> Massive, clean, well formed.
> 
> ...


Hahaha, ok. Maybe I can change your mind as mind gets larger. hahaha


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

paradise said:


> Agree with Ian, use a metal mesh, and lay it only where you need it, i.e. back of the tank. Then if you do a slope from front to back, it will be in the thicker area, and not in the foreground where it can come up.


Why bother using ADA PS to begin with?
You can do any type of slope and not have to deal with any of that.
You can also replant/uproot easier without pulling it up or bothering with mesh.

You can argue about ADA AA vs other substrates, but can you honestly suggest that PS is doing such great things or .........is it due to the ADA AS alone? I have not heard much discussion there...........

Have you tried ADA AS alone with some water column ferts which are cheap and not such a nuisance?

Have you tested what PS is and has in it?

As far a space for movement, all things settle to the bottom, the finer stuff will. I do not buy that argument. Never did either. So that leaves nutrients alone, PS has primarily NO3 and some Osomcoat like fert balls in there for longer term sources, but not a lot. Some peat and pumice, that's about all.
So how is it so useful vs say ADA As alone?

You folks argue with these folks about "trying things and seeing for yourselves", can you take your own advice about this?:icon_idea 

Or are we suppose to believe the only way ADA tanks work well is to do the full line of all their products? Some work and some don't.
This is true of every product line.

What if you get ECA for 1/10th the price?
You saw you did not need PS?
Or that Green Gain is not a lot more than mere Superthrive for 1/20th the cost?
Or that ADA used high light only for a little bit?

 
As you have told others, you really don't know unless you try and see if you make some good assumptions in the test.

I did and that's why I say what I say, not because I'm full of beans:icon_lol: 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## paradise (Dec 11, 2003)

Tom I never said you MUST or even SHOULD use PS. I just suggested a method of placement. Re-read the post. I use it because people whose opinions I respect said it was something to use. I have only done planted tanks for less than 6 months, and have not had time to setup multiple tanks under same conditions with same equipment, with only PS being the difference and test it  I have not even set up multiple tanks at all with ADA products. So, there was no advice in my statement about whether to use something or not. But whatever....


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

paradise said:


> Raul DOES need to show us at least one tank. I am so tired of people talking about it that have never tried it, it's really quite tiring.


I never claimed it wasn't worth it. It is definitely worth it, probably the best out there in terms of ease of planting, granule size, and color. However, the fact that the granules can turn into a dust simply by moving plants around or the fact that it needs to be changed within a couple of years seems to outweigh the initial excitement. 

http://www.barrreport.com/general-plant-topics/2955-i-hate-ada-aqua-soil.html


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## paradise (Dec 11, 2003)

Raul, NO it does not need to be changed every 2 years, and that link you provide is an extreme case, Tom knows it is, because of many reasons including:

1. A huge size tank where they had to literally move huge pieces around and stand in the tank itself.

2. An owner who CONSTANTLY tinkered with the tank, moving things around, resulting in cloudy water and lots of fine particles.

I just pulled out EVERY plant and redesigned the whole tank and the water is fine, 2 days later. So it is not just AS. there are other reasons.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

There is a guy over at shrimpnow.com that has had his AS for a little over 3yrs I believe..with pics too.

Then there is the Senske brothers who I have noticed will tear into their tanks when there is doubt about their scapes just to be the best and I think one of them has even stated that they have tanks with some really old AS. 

I have done 5 tanks so far with AS and only one tank with melted plants.... I blame myself for not doing the research.


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

Thanks all! I think I am just going to get the AS and no PS as it seems like it might be a PITA. Thanks for all of your help of this topic.
Jeb


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Let me make a comment here, I am by no means anti-ADA or AquaSoil. In fact I was all for it. I was weighing up the options myself for an upcoming 90G, I want to go with AquaSoil but at the same time I want to be sure I'm making a one-time investment. I don't want future tear downs just because I find out my money is turning into dust. Going by people's expierences it seems like it's a 50-50 chance and one thing's for sure, you need to be extra careful when moving and removing plants. Is the risk really worth it when afterall all substrates tend to become neutral overtime?


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

I am not careful at all with uprooting and redoing my tank. If you take a look at my 120p thread, all the blyxa was uprooted pretty much in one day. Clouding was present but only lasted less than a day. As in with all substrates you do want to do a periodic cleaning of the substrate (syphon). It will remove any aquasoil that may break down. I am not saying that it does not break down, but I am saying that it really is not very significant. It does not just go poof and all of a sudden the whole thing is dust.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

paradise said:


> Tom I never said you MUST or even SHOULD use PS. I just suggested a method of placement. Re-read the post. I use it because people whose opinions I respect said it was something to use. I have only done planted tanks for less than 6 months, and have not had time to setup multiple tanks under same conditions with same equipment, with only PS being the difference and test it  I have not even set up multiple tanks at all with ADA products. So, there was no advice in my statement about whether to use something or not. But whatever....


Hi Edward, this was never directed at you personally,heck, that is never my intent, sorry if it came across that way. 

The idea is that: is it even needed and that there is a causal effect? Everyone is going to do what they want, it's a free country, I'm not suggesting anything less. Just because someone is experienced does in no way imply they are correct. It just means they are experienced. But about what, using the the ADA system without the PS? And comparing it to ADA AS alone and with PS?

That's a real question and one that should addressed before considering dealing with PS.

It's not a personal attack, it's not poo pooing on anyone personally, it's not some agenda driven thing, it's an honest basic question folks should ask and consider.

I can add CO2 and add Superthrive and claim that the combo works and we should use both, see the result that they produce, but it does not suggest Superthrive is really the reason for nice growth. We would have to do a simple test. New folks have little idea about what is useful or not. Many are in the same boat, they are not going to test it nor have the tanks available to them to do so.

I doubt Jeff Senske is particularly interested in doing such test. He has a lot going on, hundreds of clients. I have research and test facilities. We each have our own role and interest in aquariums. 

Experienced folks also have the same lack of knowledge when they 
start using something and have not yet tried to manipulate things to see what does what. They just want something that works and really do not care why. Jeff has freely stated as such. Tinkers tend to figure out what makes things works and are able to explain what and why. 

The only way to gain that knowledge is do the a simple test and see.
Then you know and can see for yourself. 

But many simply do not do that, I cannot blame them, but to suggest that it works when they do not really know is not good. They are guessing.
You will always learn more from a simple test than guess. Management just does some set of routines and if it works, they do not care as much as to why and how.

I've taken the time to see if the ADA products work and do as claimed. I'm certainly interested and ADA has peeked my interest and gained some loyalty.

Jeff is great guy, I harbor nothing but praise for one of the nicest folks in the hobby. He really is. Amano is also extremely nice in person. 

Just because I am critical does not mean I have any ill will towards them or anyone personally.

I'm just very curious and want to know why and how things work, not "buy this and it'll work for you". I want to know what each thing does and what role it plays.

I learn a great deal that way and no longer need to rely on the speculation. Yea, it takes work, creativity, time and so does a nice ADA scape:icon_wink
In that respect, it's not much different. 

And for those worried about my experiences with a behemoth, the deal is differnt for smaller tanks, I've said this over and over again.

The filtration is a mere 1-2x turn over's per hour, contrasted to many that use 5-10X per hour and remove detritus from the lower edge, 4 ft high is a long way for mulm to reach the filter box. Cleaning is also a bear labor wise, so simply removing detritus is a chore. Walking on the sediment was done a little at the initial stage, from then on, using the rocks and wood was done. 

I just think the low flow, the lack of bottom filter intakes, some neglect as well contributed to it. Still, the client and I both know that the change was for the best given what he expected.

I doubt many would agree at the typical smaller scales most folks keep are an issue using ADA. I plan on having all ADA soil at my larger tanks once I move into a good size home this summer. I like the plant growth and have gotten use to it and have no issues redoing tanks with it one bit at that scale.

1600 gallons worth?
No way.

There are trade offs at that size for many things.
I had to redo the CO2 system that was jerry rigged as best as we could at the time and we moved the system inside close to the tank, did a hard brass line instead of CO2 tubing from a remote location. The entire process was a learning and testing experience.

I honestly, nor anyone, would had predicted it.
White pine dealing with the 16ft up in WA also has had similar issues on their tank, but they are not about to replace the substrate. I'm brave about stuff like that however.

I've added ADA AS directly into a full tank with fish without issues 5X now.
No clouding etc. I've mauled tanks replanting and pulling things up, I've never had the issues I had on that large tank however. Pissed me off and caused me a lot more work as well as the client.

Still, I must be fair about this.
The trade offs are not applicable to most cases that most hobbyists encounter.


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

i spoke with george Lo yesterday at aquaforest in SF and asked him about his experiences using AS for longer periods of time, and what he thought about some of the complaints people are making about the subtrate causing cloudiness after setup.

here is what he said roughly...

in his opinion, AS performs best when it gets as little disturbance as possible throughout the tanks life. constanty trimming plants and replanting stems tends to compress or crush the soil particles faster than they would otherwise degrade, and can create siginificant amounts of mulm compared to AS that does not get constantly replanted in. 

also, in general, great care needs to be taken during WC's and general tank maintenance to cause as little disturbace to the substrte as possible to avoid AS dust.

he also said that he does not think that this is very different to the proper maintenance of any aquatic plant soil. he also suggested indirectly that maybe AS is not an appropriate soil for those who want to constantly replant and rescape. 

*******************************************************
so here is what i got from this....

1. do not replant trimmed stems into aquasoil unless mandatory
2. be EXTREMELY gentle doing WC's and general tank maintenance to avoid stirring substrate unnecessarily
3. AS might not be the best soil for you 1st planted tank

all that being said, it is still the best substrate i have ever used, and will continue to support the ada line cause of its aesthetic qualities and great performance, not price!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Yep, I'd agree with Andrew's assessment, adding that massive tanks are not the best for this product either.

Otherwise, it's super.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

hey tom, what measurements of tank would you stay away from when using aquasoil?

like over 100 gallons? or anything deeper than 24"?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Tanks deeper than 30" and depending on the type of layout, such as those with plain sand/gravel foregrounds etc are likely okay and depending on filtration engineering.

I do not think anything over 30" is a good size for height.
Your arm is just not long enough and the maintenance of a garden becomes very difficult as a result.

While other hard sands will allow less issue when getting into the tank and makes cleaning/replanting easier.

Cleaning a 100-300 gallon tank is easy vs a 1000 or more gallon tank that's deep.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

hahahhaa... yeah... 30" would be bad for most people i think.

thanks for advise!


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## paradise (Dec 11, 2003)

Like Ian, I have planted and replanted 100s of blyxa stems which are pretty invasive and several hundred Rotala stems, and have changed the COMPLETE layout including moving big rocks twice now, and the water cleared after 1 day with No special treatment for cleaning. I had amano shrimp, cherry shrimp and tiger shrimp in the tank while doing a complete revision and none that I know have died from this. I may have killed a few while moving the rocks. I also have about 40 Harlequin rasboras in there, and no adverse effects at all. 

I also had flourite in another tank, till recently, and had similar situation with it, and the effects of replanting were VERY similar. But Flourite looks terrible, aquasoil is a nice uniform look. Also the growth is not comparable at all.  IT's like night and day.

Also, Tom, I dont have time to test things, to see if PS works or not. I asked people I trust and they said it does, THAT is good enough for me, whether they tested it or not. Seriously, it definitely does not make things worse, and with proper handling, (using a mesh) does not come up. IT's not that expensive, and you dont need a whole lot (1 bag for a 75cm tank) so why not do it. IT's more of a budget decision than a "how good is it " decision. I dont know if it works, but it sure does not slow things down. Just another viewpoint


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## George Lo (Apr 20, 2007)

*George Lo*

Dear All planted aquarium enthusiasts and aquanut415,

To aquanut415,

Nice talking to you at the store, always enjoy our conversation and thanks for updating our conversation about aqua soil experiences. 

To all,

Here is my opnion and experiences about using aqua soil. 

Regarding cloudiness using aqua soil:

During the initial stage of the tank, depending on how careful you set up your tank you could have different results. If you be careful and pay extra attention, you could start out with crystal clear water even right after setting up. If you are not as careful, you could end up with cloudy water, however, it should not be a big concern and the cloudiness will go away if you do careful water changes (not to disturb the substrate while adding water) more often in the following two weeks. A CAREFUL 100% water change right after setting up will also help rid the cloudiness.

Regarding cloudiness after replanting:

Great care needs to be taken during regular tank maitenance and replanting and this applies to ALL TYPES OF SUBSTRATE. When pulling out plants, I ususally insert scissors into the substrate and cut around the roots before pulling out the plants as it avoids pulling out big clumps of substrate and reduce cloudiness problems. Water could become cloudy after replanting, however, this problem can usually be RESOLVED by doing water changes in the following few days. 
I have had NO PROBLEM constantly pulling out plants and replanting plants with aqua soil. We have several Plant selling tanks in our store using aqua soil where we constantly pull plants out for selling and have no problems so far. Those tanks have been set up since 2005 July 1. 

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,
George Lo


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

nice to see you on the board George!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Edward, no issue with your viewpoint:

How is it that folks trust someone who has *never tested or tried something* when they suggest a product?

I've given a long trial with many species, tried it on 4 tanks. Was there a significant difference? Not that I could see. 
Why would I suggest ADA AS still?
Being uniformed is not another "viewpoint", it's just uninformed.
Doesn't matter, they do not have experience without the PS.

Now will PS "hurt" your tank using it with Steel mesh?
No, but I've never made such claims either. Does it cost more and take up space and is it a hassle to add? Yes, perhaps not that much for you, but for some, more than likely they will not use the mesh.

That's fine, no issues there.

All I ask, and it's a fair question that's been unanswered, is it AS or is it PS or the combo that gives a night and day difference?
I'm not asking any other questions or implying anything more.

Whether you are careful about uprooting or not is also not the question either. I'm asking if PS works and really helps to grow the plants.

Or rather, is it the AS?

I hate the way Flourite looks myself BTW, and would suggest to folks that do decide to use PS, use the mesh.

But no one other than myself and other folks that have tried AS alone seems to have experience nor has tested whether the effects we see are from PS...........

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

I am very confused...:icon_frow 

I am going to have to read this Thread, again...










Does this look like a mixture of Amazonia Aqua Soil and Flourite?

Sorry, I just thought this would be the best place to ask.
I have no experience with either one...


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

what is confusing you yoko?


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

That looks like sand and mud.


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

hahah

jeez-- nevermind!

I like it!!!!:icon_twis


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

eklikewhoa said:


> That looks like sand and mud.


I'd say gravel and mud, haha.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

epicfish said:


> Exactly. I think you and I should put together an ADA AquaSoil thread and have it stickied with proper cycling guidelines for people with hard water, etc...
> 
> Man, mine was about $180 shipped and what happened wasn't very pretty. I also lost close to $150 in plants too.


That sounds like a good idea...M


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

hrmm im considering a 3ft high tank with aqua soil.. and I am someone who likes to replant once in a while, particularly stem plants instead of topping them.

Eco-complete is almost 40-50% cheaper in australia.. but 

AS looks like REAL substrate. Thats the only reason I would use it.


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

OK, if I wash and smash ADA Aquasoil together, will the texture be "muddy"???

Sorry, I've never actually seen AS in person, but have been told it is like little balls....


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

yoko said:


> OK, if I wash and smash ADA Aquasoil together, will the texture be "muddy"???
> 
> Sorry, I've never actually seen AS in person, but have been told it is like little balls....


If you apply a considerable force, then yes it will turn into mud. But why would you want that?


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

Raul-7 said:


> If you apply a considerable force, then yes it will turn into mud. But why would you want that?


Someone told me that it began to break down, simply from rinsing it in the bucket. At that point, he just decided to , I guess, from what you're describing...pulverize it??
I've seen photos of it and like the texture (from the photos).

He of course, does not have a large portion of water, as it is a Paludarium-style tank, but I am just trying to get a better idea of what the texture is like, since you guys have hands-on experience with the soil.

I am trying to get it as close to a river as possible. 

Any suggestions?


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

Whoever told you (yoko) that they look like little balls they are exactly right. thats the best descrition I could give you as well...Little balls.


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

*jebarj90*, how is the soil working for you??


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

... Im still letting it sit while it goes through huge ammonia spikes. The ammonia is at about 8.0 ppm right now. I dont know what to do... I guess just wait it out?


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

How many WC a week are you doing?


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

About 5. Stupid aquasoil!


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

So, basically, you are doing WC EVERY DAY, except on weekends??
For how long???


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

I have been doing it for about a week now. This is really pissing me off. I dont know what to do. Im a fish noob.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

jebarj90 said:


> ... Im still letting it sit while it goes through huge ammonia spikes. The ammonia is at about 8.0 ppm right now. I dont know what to do... I guess just wait it out?


Why wait it out? If you have fish sensitive fish i could see why it _might_ be a problem but that's why you do water changes. Plus if you heavily plant the tank from the get go it should be a problem at all. I think that's really why you see explosive growth from plants in the start. Fish may not love the ammonia but plants do.

Ive got AS with PS going close to 2 years now.....no problems so far. Love the stuff



jebarj90 said:


> I have been doing it for about a week now. This is really pissing me off. I dont know what to do. Im a fish noob.


why are you waiting? I mean whats going on with the tank that you have to wait beside the ammonia? You've got light, co2, lots of plants? Plant that thing and don't worry so much.


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

I read a thread from EpicFish. Ada aqua soil + melting plants. Because of the real hard water I have (along with Epic) the aquasoil will melt every plant. Its happened to others I guess. Thats what I got out of the thread, but still dont know what I should do...


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## paradise (Dec 11, 2003)

jebarj90 said:


> Thats what I got out of the thread, but still dont know what I should do...


Hmm, read the post right above yours. Marc has had it for 2 years and is telling you what to do, but you are waiting because someone who JUST added it to the tank is having a situation. And, btw if you ask Nick now (epicfish) he will tell you that everything is fine and the plants are growing out of control. Trust the people who've had it for a while and are telling you it's the freakin' mana from the sky.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

I have done 4 tanks now with AS and as long as there isn't livestock involved there was no problem with the ammoni.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

paradise said:


> Hmm, read the post right above yours. Marc has had it for 2 years and is telling you what to do, but you are waiting because someone who JUST added it to the tank is having a situation. And, btw if you ask Nick now (epicfish) he will tell you that everything is fine and the plants are growing out of control. Trust the people who've had it for a while and are telling you it's the freakin' mana from the sky.


Yep. Things are growing like mad now. 

I've just cycled a tank for some RCS and by following the guide from ShrimpNow, everything was fine. I'm in the process of cycling for some CRS.


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## Dollphoto (Jan 2, 2012)

Raul-7 said:


> I heard too many complaints about how the PowerSand floats to the top when replanting.
> 
> 
> While I agree ADA is great for planting and aesthetics, it may not be the best solution if you're looking for something long-term (2+) years. Overtime it slowly turns into fine silt, the more you play with your tank - the faster it will break down. It all depends on your budget and how frequently you'd like to tear your tanks down.


I have about 5 years on my aqua soil Amazonia. I have noticed it turning into silt. I have been having a lot of difficulties in general with plant growth and excessive algae recently. When should one replace substrate? Any indications there is a substrate problem?


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