# ADA pipes and tools VS knockoffs



## Cypranid Kid (Sep 23, 2013)

Hey folks,

I have been lurking on the forums for a long time, but I am planning on starting some planted tanks in the near future and I'm hoping to get some feedback on equipment. Specifically here I am referencing the knockoff brand maintenance tools and lily pipes that seem to be replicas of ADA equipment. At often less than half the price of legit ADA equipment, are these worth getting? Is there much difference in quality? I see ADA also has a child company called Do! Aqua. How does their equipment compare with ADA branded equipment and the knockoff stuff? All opinions and inputs are welcome.


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## Vermino (Jun 14, 2012)

ADA - your buying a brand name
Do!Aqua - Heard they are made from ADA just the "non brand" version
VIV - comparable to the others
Cal Aqua - same thing
DIY - you can make your own customize one

It's not like pipes are trademarked or patented. They are just acrylic or glass pipes that intake and output water. They all break under a certain amount of force and all accumulate algae within it's see-through piping. I would suggest any brand on that list. I never heard anything bad about them, where i've heard horror stories about buying Ebay and some other auction sites. here is some more information on VIV vs ADA I found (it's in chinese but google translate will cure that). Also here is a comparison of Do!Aqua vs ADA. and last but not least here is Cal Aqua vs ADA

For maintenance tools, I found trying to find the "right size" to be the most important compared to anything else. The job is as simple as trimming and tweezing so I couldn't see expensive brands being anything better than just having the name engraved into the steel.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Cypranid Kid said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I have been lurking on the forums for a long time, but I am planning on starting some planted tanks in the near future and I'm hoping to get some feedback on equipment. Specifically here I am referencing the knockoff brand maintenance tools and lily pipes that seem to be replicas of ADA equipment. At often less than half the price of legit ADA equipment, are these worth getting? Is there much difference in quality? I see ADA also has a child company called Do! Aqua. How does their equipment compare with ADA branded equipment and the knockoff stuff? All opinions and inputs are welcome.


Go to AI on Kennedy in the GTA and you'll find all these brands you're mentioning. The knock offs can be good. The lily pipes are slightly thinner glass, the drop checkers are not as easy to clean as the real thing, but for the most part they're pretty good for the price. I would just steer clear of any co2 regulators, lights, filters etc. They tend to be made to a different standard ime, and don't last. Some are not even SA approved.


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## Cypranid Kid (Sep 23, 2013)

Thanks a ton Vermino. Those comparison articles are great

exv152,

I have been to Aqua Inspiration before. Its a cool store but I had no reference for comparison since I had never really seen actual ADA stuff in person. Appreciate the feedback all the same


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

I got these glass inflow and out pipes from [Ebay Link Removed] I loved the intake but it shattered one day when I was removing it during maintenance. I think it could've been avoided. As for the outflow, i think it was just a design flaw since the water flowed down rather than across the tank more horizontally. So I got a do aqua poppy glass. I love it. I notice the glass is a bit thicker so in terms of build quality yes I think its better than cheap ones from [Ebay Link Removed] But, i still think it would easily shatter if I wasn't careful. 

As for tools, ADA tools simply are overpriced scissors that have range. You can get cheaper ones that will work just as well from people here in the for sale threads. Personally, I use a pair of curved scissors, curved pincets, and a sewing scissor. All pretty much under $10 each.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

puopg said:


> As for tools, ADA tools simply are overpriced scissors that have range. You can get cheaper ones that will work just as well from people here in the for sale threads. Personally, I use a pair of curved scissors, curved pincets, and a sewing scissor. All pretty much under $10 each.


The ADA tools are really overpriced. I like the TDA knock offs, good quality stainless steel too.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

when shopping for tools, a quality scissor will have some weight and solid blade that will hold up to sharpening. If it feels light and flexes, keep looking. 

Longer blades will allow for more trimming in less time.

angles need to be factored as you may be trimming overhead or at a 45 degree viewing through the aquarium glass. Tall tools may not always be the best match for nano/pico setups.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I have never used ADA, just Do!Aqua. Honestly, the main reason I went with Do!Aqua over generic was I went with the Poppy Glass which isn't knocked off much. ADA was far too expensive for me to consider.

To my knowledge VIV is a total knock off of ADA/Do!Aqua. I am not positive but I am told they have the same supplier so they are likely the exact same. I saw some in person and couldn't see any obvious differences. They actually had ADA/Do!Aqua so I should have asked to compare. 

I have to admit though, as much as I am pro cheap goods, I am very anti-knock off. Unless Viv is has paid ADA/Do!Aqua for it's intellectual property, I am not a fan. I can't find anything on the subject. They didn't just take their designs, they took all the branding too. I honestly didn't even realize that I was looking at VIV stuff when I first saw it, I thought it was Do!Aqua. I know others may not care, I do for various reasons.


Now, Cal Aqua makes some very nice stuff. Many say their pipes are stronger, I can't verify this but my diffuser and drop checker are going on 4-5 years, both have been dropped on soft surfaces and not been taken care of as much as they should. Still going strong. They also make unique products that are distinctly their own. I would say they are more innovative in their product line than other companies, not to say that it's necessary but I do like how they take an idea and go a step further with their products. I would probably go Cal Aqua over Do!Aqua but I can buy Do!Aqua locally with no shipping/no waiting.


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## Chronados (Jan 28, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> To my knowledge VIV is a total knock off of ADA/Do!Aqua. I am not positive but I am told they have the same supplier so they are likely the exact same. I saw some in person and couldn't see any obvious differences. They actually had ADA/Do!Aqua so I should have asked to compare.
> 
> I have to admit though, as much as I am pro cheap goods, I am very anti-knock off. Unless Viv is has paid ADA/Do!Aqua for it's intellectual property, I am not a fan. I can't find anything on the subject. They didn't just take their designs, they took all the branding too. I honestly didn't even realize that I was looking at VIV stuff when I first saw it, I thought it was Do!Aqua. I know others may not care, I do for various reasons.


There was a discussion over this on a sponsor forum too, and my take on it is that unless there was actual patent/trademark infringement (which I doubt as companies are openly selling it here), copycatting encourages competition and keeps manufacturers honest. If ADA truly created something revolutionary, some new technology, then they should have had the common sense to patent it prior to introducing it to the market like every other company out there. As for branding, reading VIV's website, it sounds like it was their goal to compete with ADA strictly from a cost basis, so it makes sense to copy them as much as possible (hard to compare apples to oranges, etc)

There has been reports of some ADA tanks slipping in quality (bubbles in seams, etc) ever since they moved manufacturing from Germany to Taiwan or wherever it is now. With the introduction of Mr. Aqua tanks (and now low-iron versions that supposedly have seams rivaling ADA quality), this puts pressure on ADA to justify its higher cost through better QC. Likewise, if VIV imitates ADA pipes, ADA had better do something to show/justify why their pipes cost twice as much (better QC, even higher quality craftsmanship), or reduce pricing.

In the end, with the introduction of (legal) copycatters, the end consumer usually ends up with a better, cheaper (or both) product.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Chronados said:


> There was a discussion over this on a sponsor forum too, and my take on it is that unless there was actual patent/trademark infringement (which I doubt as companies are openly selling it here), copycatting encourages competition and keeps manufacturers honest. If ADA truly created something revolutionary, some new technology, then they should have had the common sense to patent it prior to introducing it to the market like every other company out there. As for branding, reading VIV's website, it sounds like it was their goal to compete with ADA strictly from a cost basis, so it makes sense to copy them as much as possible (hard to compare apples to oranges, etc)
> 
> There has been reports of some ADA tanks slipping in quality (bubbles in seams, etc) ever since they moved manufacturing from Germany to Taiwan or wherever it is now. With the introduction of Mr. Aqua tanks (and now low-iron versions that supposedly have seams rivaling ADA quality), this puts pressure on ADA to justify its higher cost through better QC. Likewise, if VIV imitates ADA pipes, ADA had better do something to show/justify why their pipes cost twice as much (better QC, even higher quality craftsmanship), or reduce pricing.
> 
> In the end, with the introduction of (legal) copycatters, the end consumer usually ends up with a better, cheaper (or both) product.



See, that's where I am on the fence. I can't even find a VIV website, not that I looked tremendously hard. I also don't see them sold by companies in the US that don't import a lot of Chinese goods that are not sold on the US market. That leads me to believe that they were not intended to be sold on the US market but I am not sure. There is a big difference in intellectual property law in China compared to the US, and even with their laws, most companies outside of China don't get involved as it's hard to do anything about it. If they are developing their own product, I don't see a problem. If they are just taking products out of the same factory without any care, I do see a problem. As someone who has had my intellectual property stolen from me and then distributedwithout my permission, things like this are a bit more personal to me than I would ever expect another who has not been through it to understand where I am coming from. 

As said, I could have been fooled into buying a VIV pipe of a Do!Aqua almost because it's not just the pipe, the packaging is not only the same color, but it is the same size and seems to be the same plastic packaging as well. It's only my guess but I believe they are an actual knock off, an imitation good, a boot leg good. I can not find anything to tell me I am right or wrong, just my gut feeling. Again, I have my _personal_ views on the matter, however, so I don't want to go too deep without info.

I use a "knock off" mic preamp in my studio. It's a knock off of a Neve 1073. There are more "knock off" 1073 style preamps than "real" ones. It's a bit different because the "real" ones are not made any more (well they are but by a different company and some things have changed) but each company makes them slightly different, from aesthetics to transformers so it's really not the same. Some are cheap, some are expensive so it isn't recreated to undercut competition while using the same box/branding/etc. It's a different take on a great product and they are done legally. However, some of the "knockoffs" get "bootlegged" by factories, basically reselling the same thing under the same or different brand with some cost cutting.

That said, I probably went to deep on this for the topic. To me, a glass pipe is a glass pipe, the branding/packaging bothers me with VIV. Sorry if I went to far with this.


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## Chronados (Jan 28, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> See, that's where I am on the fence. I can't even find a VIV website, not that I looked tremendously hard. I also don't see them sold by companies in the US that don't import a lot of Chinese goods that are not sold on the US market. That leads me to believe that they were not intended to be sold on the US market but I am not sure. There is a big difference in intellectual property law in China compared to the US, and even with their laws, most companies outside of China don't get involved as it's hard to do anything about it. If they are developing their own product, I don't see a problem. If they are just taking products out of the same factory without any care, I do see a problem. As someone who has had my intellectual property stolen from me and then distributedwithout my permission, things like this are a bit more personal to me than I would ever expect another who has not been through it to understand where I am coming from.
> 
> As said, I could have been fooled into buying a VIV pipe of a Do!Aqua almost because it's not just the pipe, the packaging is not only the same color, but it is the same size and seems to be the same plastic packaging as well. It's only my guess but I believe they are an actual knock off, an imitation good, a boot leg good. I can not find anything to tell me I am right or wrong, just my gut feeling. Again, I have my _personal_ views on the matter, however, so I don't want to go too deep without info.


Ah, I missed your point on the marketing aspect, sorry. I agree that the packaging could be made a bit more distinct, but I don't think they are trying to deceive anyone in that regard. I honestly think it's just a side effect of them trying to copy everything about the ADA items to compete on price only. The stores and sites I've seen them in in China openly say that it's VIV brand, a ADA knockoff/replica. The stores that carry VIV also generally carry ADA too. And in the US, it's definitely not sold as anything other than VIV. But then again, as you said, I'm probably a bit too deep, as I wouldn't know what their actual intentions were


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## Keyboard Aquatics (Feb 24, 2012)

talontsiawd said:


> See, that's where I am on the fence. I can't even find a VIV website, not that I looked tremendously hard. I also don't see them sold by companies in the US that don't import a lot of Chinese goods that are not sold on the US market. That leads me to believe that they were not intended to be sold on the US market but I am not sure.


I'm a vendor and a sponsor of this forum. My most important concerns with getting behind the ViV line were as follows:

1. Is this a quality product. Returns stink for both the customer and me
2. Is the importer of record a reputable company that will stand by the product should my customers have returns. 
3. Was the packaging sturdy enough to enable shipping success. 



I am pleased with these pipes and offer them with enthusiasm. I have sold and shipped about half a dozen sets. No problems and all satisfied customers. As for availability, it should be soon that these are on Amazon, either by the importer or by a vendor who offers them.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Keyboard Aquatics said:


> I'm a vendor and a sponsor of this forum. My most important concerns with getting behind the ViV line were as follows:
> 
> 1. Is this a quality product. Returns stink for both the customer and me
> 2. Is the importer of record a reputable company that will stand by the product should my customers have returns.
> ...


I totally understand. My opinions (which may be unfounded) have nothing to do with the quality. From a visual perspective, they look to be the same thing as Do!Aqua, I mean exactly the same, so I would imagine they are the same quality. That quality is very good. Same with the packaging, should be the same as ADA, those make it to the US fine. 

I would imagine VIV is probably the best bang for the buck if you are striving for ADA quality. There are other, cheaper options but you have to deal with 15-30 shipping and though many are as good as anything else, sometimes you get something unexpected. Some HK vendors will sell something different than what is pictured. Some will arrive broken, and though it seems most venders are good with replacement, that can take up to 60 days to get what you want if you get a broken pipe, even more if you get two broken ones.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

I've tried ADA, do Aqua, ViV, TDA, Fire and Nag, and have not been disappointed they're all as good as ADA. I also encourage knock-offs because it makes it a much more competitive market, not just driving the prices down, but forcing them all to produce quality products with good customer service. Otherwise they run the risk of going under in such a highly competitive market. Fortunately here in Canada, we can get them all at certain retail establishments, so no need to wait 60 days, plus no shipping & handling costs either.


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## PhilipS (Jan 9, 2014)

Has anyone used the NAG-Aqua Glass Inflow Surface Skimmer?

It is a mostly glass version of all the plastic ones. I think Eheim is the original.

Tempting, it'll have to be shortened to be of use in my MrAqua 12G.


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