# [PICTURES] Hair algae, green chunky algae? Can't fix my algae problems..



## wade0328 (Jul 10, 2013)

Any help is appreciated! Thanks!


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

*Light:* You have a Finnex Fugeray 30" over a 20L (30" x 12" x 12"). According to Finnex's specs:










You have somewhere in the medium light (30-50 PAR) category at the substrate. This is indeed enough light to grow pretty much anything, though if you were _expecting_ high light, you might be disappointed there.

As [TekWarren] said in your "20 Long College Planted Journey!" thread, part of the light output of this fixture is actinic, meant for reef tanks, and isn't contributing much to real PAR as plants get little benefit from it. I'm assuming Finnex's specs properly account for that, and it doesn't affect your estimated light level. I mention it mainly because some folks believe that certain algae can utilize actinic light better than plants, giving them an advantage when such lighting is present; but this hasn't been absolutely proven.

*Ferts:* Using [NilogG]'s macro and micro liquid solutions. If you're emulating EI, then using macro and micro on alternate days at one squirt each, plus a 50% weekly water change should cover you. I could not find your dosing regimen to verify how you're using these.

*CO2:* Looks like you're still working on this. Have you achieved a green drop checker yet? Is the drop checker filled with a 4dKH solution, and then indicator drops from a pH test? Or something else, which may be suspect?

*New Tank Syndrome:* Not really a "syndrome" in itself, but a nice catch-all phrase that covers a variety of issues you're likely to encounter in a new tank setup. In your tank, I suspect the following factors:

* Low plant mass. Plants alter the environment in ways that aren't fully understood to help prevent algae growth. And algae can sometimes do the same, except in its own favor. That's why it's helpful to absolutely pack the tank with plants from the start, even if it's with cheap and disposable fast growers (wisteria for example); then gradually transition over to the plants you actually want.
* New plants adapting to new tank conditions, perhaps lower light than they were previously accustomed to. All trimmings are fairly short and cannot yet take advantage of the higher light levels at the top of the tank. The plants know this, and they're putting all their resources into growing tall fast, sacrificing old growth in the process. (You've been talking with [Art By Stef*] in PM about Limnophila aromatica, and this is we prefer to send it out around 18" tall. Even though the tops are the best looking part, we include the not-so-nice bottoms, so that you can plant it at any height required to get it started quickly.)
* Low and fluctuating CO2. Big issue!
* New Eco Complete and rocks probably leaking nutrients algae is taking advantage of.
* Some plants came with algae already on them, giving it a head start. A dip was performed which did not eliminate the algae.

This has been kind of rambling/unorganized, so to sum up, here is an immediate battle plan:

1) Get CO2 up to 30ppm, which will result in a green drop checker. Verify you're using a 4dKH solution for accuracy. Keep water level regularly topped off to prevent the HOB from causing level fluctuations.
2) Verify you're dosing ferts within recommendations, and performing a 50% weekly water change, or something roughly equivalent.
3) Verify your photoperiod is in the 8 hour range (give or taken an hour).
4) If possible, add some fast growing stem plants where ever possible without shadowing existing plants.
5) Wait and observe. Over the next week or two, which is gaining ground faster, plants or algae?

If the answer for #5 is _algae_, then it is likely too well established to turn around via environmental control and/or trimming alone, and you'll need to attack it directly. Excel overdoses will work best on the BBA. Algaefix (using my modified dosing scheme for increased fish safety) will work best on the hair algae. I wouldn't do both simultaneously, so attach whichever is the biggest threat to plants first. Of course, my One-Two Punch treatment will pretty much knock out all the algae fast, but that is also the harshest treatment, and so I recommend it only when other treatments are insufficient.

Details of any of these treatments upon request, since it's possible you will not need any of them. Keeping fingers crossed for you.


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## wade0328 (Jul 10, 2013)

Thanks so much all of this helps! I will do everything you said and raise my co2 until I see green drop checker. Just replaced the 4dkh fluid and ph drops in my drop checker to make sure it is working correctly. I am pretty sure it was turning green though. I have a ton of star grass in there that is growing like a weed.. Will keeping those in there help to kill out the algae? Also what kind of stem plants do you recommend putting in here quickly? As you can see my tank looks kind of bare because most all of the bottoms of my plants except star grass has died. So I cut and replanted and spaced them out well. This is mostly the Rotala magenta and limnophila dieing at th ebottom. I also have Some reineckii that is doing decent but it it sending out long chutes of roots to reach the bottom from the top of the plant, the star grass is doing this also.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

wade0328 said:


> I have a ton of star grass in there that is growing like a weed.. Will keeping those in there help to kill out the algae?


Absolutely. The more growth occurring in the tank at this point, the better.



wade0328 said:


> Also what kind of stem plants do you recommend putting in here quickly?


Wisteria, anacharis, hornwort, Ludwigia repens are some I've used. There are others. What do you have fast, cheap and easy access to? Any LFS near you which still sell these in large bunches, rather than tiny packages? Or fellow aquarists nearby that could supply you with trimmings?



wade0328 said:


> As you can see my tank looks kind of bare because most all of the bottoms of my plants except star grass has died.


When estimating planting density, I like to look straight down into the tank. For a new tank I prefer that substrate and hardscape occupy no more than 50% of what I can see (if possible). That ensures a fair amount of light is being converted to growth. I don't have a top-down pic of your tank but I'd imagine probably 80% of what I'd see is non-plant.



wade0328 said:


> I also have Some reineckii that is doing decent but it it sending out long chutes of roots to reach the bottom from the top of the plant, the star grass is doing this also.


My Alternathera reineckii makes a lot of aerial roots too, especially tanks where I add lots of ferts to the water. Maybe it thinks the entire stem is in substrate, LOL. Doesn't hurt to cut off those roots if they're unattractive, but mostly I'm too lazy.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=506393&highlight=
There are ferts of three kinds on here all good. Your plants are starved for nutrients and algae can survive with lots less nutrients than they can. But just like the plants it's driven by the light. Except in extreem cases attacking the algae only removes it, but doesn't remove the cause which should be worked out before.
Plants do use actinic in the 460nm range but you would need to know which range yours are in to know if it's usable by the plants or not.
At your leisure, read this thread for more info on actinic light.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5378130#post5378130
But since you don't have many bulbs in that it's incidental only.
This one would be more important for you to read.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107303
After you absorb the info in that one you will be much better equiped to understand
what is happening in your tank. In this case a nutrient deficiency is openning a door for algae to enter the picture due to the poor health of your plants.
Also I would do no more than 7.5 hrs of light till this is better.


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## wade0328 (Jul 10, 2013)

Okay the drop checker is back in the green! I've been dosing accordingly every day and have the lights on 7.5 hours! Hopefully this helps. Will try and get some plant mass very soon!


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## wade0328 (Jul 10, 2013)

Okay, update on hair algae. I've been dosing ferts every single day. Hair grass is still growing and there is even more. All my stargrass is growing like a weed. Plants do seem to be doing a bit better than they were. Hair grass is jus thorirble now though and is all ove rmy DHG and rocks. Alot of BBA is gone.



> If the answer for #5 is algae, then it is likely too well established to turn around via environmental control and/or trimming alone, and you'll need to attack it directly. Excel overdoses will work best on the BBA. Algaefix (using my modified dosing scheme for increased fish safety) will work best on the hair algae. I wouldn't do both simultaneously, so attach whichever is the biggest threat to plants first. Of course, my One-Two Punch treatment will pretty much knock out all the algae fast, but that is also the harshest treatment, and so I recommend it only when other treatments are insufficient.


Should I do this now? If so how much excel in a 20 long should I dose, how long etc.? Thanks!


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Ok, the plants are growing better, and BBA is disappearing. This is definite progress! :thumbsup:

Speaking practically, the hair algae is one of those which tends to like similar conditions to what's optimal for plants. Some folks can get it to slow down or even disappear by getting the environmental conditions _just right_. More power to them, but I think the majority aren't that lucky.

It was certainly worth trying that route first just to see. Further environmental modifications may still result in resolution of hair algae, but as this may take a while with uncertain results, we don't want your tank to become overrun in the meantime. So there's no shame in resorting to algaecides in my opinion.

Algaefix is the most effective treatment for hair algae. It can harm inverts, so before proceeding with any treatment, list any you have.

The usual way of dosing Algaefix is to add 1mL per 10G, every three days, until algae is eliminated. _Sometimes_ this will harm fish as well. It affects their gills in a way that reduces their ability to uptake oxygen. They can often tolerate this with only mild stress, but not always. Better yet, if the chemical is introduced gradually then kept at a constant level, they can adapt and completely negate the effect; but the usual method of large doses every three days doesn't lend itself to this adaptation.

So I favor an alternate dosing scheme. Add 1/6mL per 10G daily. In a test I performed, this dosage didn't kill hair algae, but rather stopped growth dead in its tracks. At which point I was able to grow my plants without interference, and gradually pick and trim away all the hair algae at my leisure until it was completely eliminated. I've been dosing this in some tanks (that don't actually need it) for months continuously now to verify that long-term and low level dosage doesn't cause any problems, and I haven't seen any.

Alternately, I could have _slowly_ increased the dosage until the hair algae began to shrink away on its own; which started happening for me at about 1/3mL per 10G.

While some may prefer to see all their algae massively die off in a matter of a couple of days, it isn't necessary to do it this way. The slow and steady approach is safer for fish. Probably safer for inverts too, though my tests on that are limited, and I can't guarantee absolute safety for all of them.

Of course, the decision on which method to use is up to you.

[Edit: Forgot to mention, Stef has been experimenting for a year with use of dried banana leaves. This also seems to have a suppressive effect on hair algae, as well as some others. Worth a try if you have ready access to them. We have multiple banana trees in our yard so it's super convenient for us.]


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## wade0328 (Jul 10, 2013)

I only have like 10 harlequin rasboras, 2 ottos, and a bunch of nerite snails. Will it hurt the nerites? I'll be honest I don't like how many are in there right now. I only like a small bunch. What brand algae fix should I use?
Thanks for the response!


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Haven't tried it with nerites personally, but from others' reports it should not harm the nerites. This is the one I used for all tests:










Though there are others which will work the same, as long as they contain the same sole active ingredient and concentration:

_Poly[oxyethylene(dimethylimino)ethylene (dimethyliminio)ethylene dichloride] 4.50%_

Hope I spelled that right, LOL.


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