# Alternatives to ADA stones?



## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

I could afford ADA stones. however, I am wondering if there are actual scientific names for stones like the Manten ones, and etc. Do any of you know where to find the ADA stones outside of Japan, for example, in nature sites? Do any of you know where to purchase these stones, besides ADA?

When I was vising Australia, I saw many beautiful pieces of drift wood in Australia, and it made me realize how silly it is for people to charge $10-20 for something that you can find in nature for free. I also think that the prices for the ADA stones are dumb, and it is silly that they are sold for so much because they are found in nature, and it is not like they are made by hand or something.


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## Sparklescale (Nov 22, 2013)

certainly you can collect your own...many do! It does help to know something about the make-up of the rocks and wood you collect to avoid gathering un-suitable materials, but, many native materials work just fine in aquariums with a little preparation. The reason people pay for those materials is because it is easier than finding their own, and, they can be assured of consistency in quality and performance by buying aquarium standard fare rocks and wood like the ADA stones and Malaysian driftwood, for example.


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## Vermino (Jun 14, 2012)

kidgrave said:


> When I was vising Australia, I saw many beautiful pieces of drift wood in Australia, and it made me realize how silly it is for people to charge $10-20 for something that you can find in nature for free. I also think that the prices for the ADA stones are dumb, and it is silly that they are sold for so much because they are found in nature, and it is not like they are made by hand or something.


Well shipping alone for a ton of rocks or driftwood is about $1,400+ from China to LA, this doesn't include customs, destination & loading fees. The product itself is about $.40-$2.00/pound depending on what you are buying. So after it's all said and done you make about 120-200% on what you invested for, that is if all of it sells out (remember, not all pieces are going to be a work of art).

ADA is a manufacturer company, they typically have distributors and then retailers. That means 40-60% goes to ADA, 40-60% goes to distributors and then 40-60% goes to retailers. (not including logistics) Believe they also have a MAP (minimum advertising price) to keep cut-throating to a minimum. kind-of like buying a car, they say it's MSRP but they can sell it for lower in shady ways. 

So of course you can find hardscapes out in the wild, I got my 12 gallon with a bunch of rocks from Black mountain in Las vegas and I know Dave over at Utah Aquatics picks up Utah Dragonstones locally as well. But if you want something that comes from another part of the world, then you can either travel or pay for it.

Now can you find hardscapes in other parts of the world? of course! Is there known information on where they are at? no. Sorry but it's kind-of like fishing, the people that know the spots aren't going to tell. But For like Ohko stones, it's typically a clay compound and is formed from the water erosion over time. So it's good to check around dry lake beds to find these types of stones.


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## wildcat (Jul 14, 2014)

I literally just picked up some rocks out of a Taco Bell lawn. They look just like 75% of the Ada stones....only thing they cost me was an awkward conversation.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

wildcat said:


> I literally just picked up some rocks out of a Taco Bell lawn. They look just like 75% of the Ada stones....only thing they cost me was an awkward conversation.


Hahaha I loved this. So good.


Yeah, if you're in CA, just take a weekend off to drive up the Big Sur. Visit some beaches and poke around for driftwood and rocks. Just make sure you're not taking anything from a protected ecosystem!


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

You pay for the stones being collected at the authentic location, ie - some place in Japan.

I recently had an issue with rocks being mislabel, the colour was not consistence underwater. It was so annoying because one stores' Seryiou stone was different from another store' Seryiou stone. Sometimes they are even spelled differently, it's all so confusing.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

I guess it really depends, on your own taste and whether you can really find stones that look similar to what you're looking for. I know petrified wood is a type of stone that isn't as hard to find as you would with seiryu. The lfs I work at actually sells it by the pound which is nice.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

As many said, on one side, you can find your own in nature if you want them for free. The only limitation is what you can find, and what your location is. 

Now, you can get very similar types of stone other places, but they aren't very easy to find. Bonsai shops are one of the few places I find stones similar to ADA ones. Usually though, there isn't as much of a selection of stones, both in type and quantity, than if I were to go to AFA (US retailer/distributor). Sometimes you can find great stones for about 1/2 the price but make sure you test them. I use PH down on the spot, it's pretty reliable for me. In a shop, just buy a small stone, test it out, and if it works, walk back in. Sometimes the stones are almost the same price though, even more some times. 

I bought some stuff that I didn't test, paid half price, only to have my PH off the chart high. Saving money cost me money. 

I have found one type of stone locally that I like well enough for the price, but it does lack character compared to most of the stone ADA offers. 


Lastly, if you enjoy Lava rock, that is one of the few types you can get for next to nothing out here that will be safe to fish while having some character. I personally have never used it, didn't like it for a long time, but saw a few really nice scapes that convinced of it being an option.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

We often get the idea promoted that things are sold for what they cost. That may make the bottom price point but does anybody really sell something for a low price when they can sell it for double that price? What makes a product expensive is the number of people who are willing to pay a higher price! Texas holey rock sells for $1 or more a pound in some shops when you can do a bit of labor and get it for free. But the price is not likely to come down when they can sell it for higher. Rocks from Texas or rocks from Japan, it just depends on who wants them enough to pay the price.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

PlantedRich said:


> We often get the idea promoted that things are sold for what they cost. That may make the bottom price point but does anybody really sell something for a low price when they can sell it for double that price? What makes a product expensive is the number of people who are willing to pay a higher price! Texas holey rock sells for $1 or more a pound in some shops when you can do a bit of labor and get it for free. But the price is not likely to come down when they can sell it for higher. Rocks from Texas or rocks from Japan, it just depends on who wants them enough to pay the price.


$1 a pound is not bad at all, ada stones can go anywhere form $4-$8 per pound, I find it ridiculous. You are pretty much paying for the brand which to me is stupid, others have their own opinions but I dont mind sourcing my rocks locally as I live in the bay area and have lots of great sources. Also you can find VERY cheap rocks at rockyards/landscaping yards or even at some bonsai stores.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

lamiskool said:


> $1 a pound is not bad at all, ada stones can go anywhere form $4-$8 per pound, I find it ridiculous. You are pretty much paying for the brand which to me is stupid, others have their own opinions but I dont mind sourcing my rocks locally as I live in the bay area and have lots of great sources. Also you can find VERY cheap rocks at rockyards/landscaping yards or even at some bonsai stores.


Do you have a few places you frequent. I have only found one type of stone I really like up here in Concord that looks decent and doesn't effect water parameters. Most either look great and don't work, or don't look great and work. You can PM me if you don't want to clog the thread.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Do you have a few places you frequent. I have only found one type of stone I really like up here in Concord that looks decent and doesn't effect water parameters. Most either look great and don't work, or don't look great and work. You can PM me if you don't want to clog the thread.



Not really, I used to hike a lot and would just pick up rocks and driftwood here and there whenever I saw something I liked. Santa cruz mountains, yosemite, many other places I dont remember sry. Only stones that I have ever bought from ada is dragon stone as I dont think ill find that in nature and I love the look of it (it was a ridiculous price though)


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

The Seiryu stones (I get the names mixed up...), and at least one of the other types are just really weathered limestone.

If you were up for field trips, you could look for places where there are a lot of limestone outcroppings, and go hiking. If there is any classic Karst topography near you, that might be a good place to go hunting. Just make sure it's someplace where it's okay to collect rocks.


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## SupaTanks (Apr 11, 2013)

I've found most of mine in rivers that are near my place and so far...so good. Haven't had any problems (of course, I do boil/bleach before putting them into any tanks heh)


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

There are MANY landscape stores in CA. Look up Masonry, Soils, Bricks, Rock, Stone and any other name that comes to mind. They will sell stone by the pound, by the bag (often 100 lbs), by the truckload, by the ton... any way you want to buy it! 
Just google each of those words with the area you want to stay in. Los Angeles, Southern California... and I'll bet dozens of names come up. 
Then do a google map, satellite view. If they have a big yard, go there. If they have a small yard, go there only if they are near by, or you are already going close. 
Near me (San Francisco Bay Area) there are over a dozen stores that sell bulk materials within half an hour drive. I work in the Landscape industry and am very familiar with all the nearest ones. (Just went to the best of them today, in fact!)

Go to different rock yards, they do not all carry the same thing. 

Yes, indeed, also go look in nature. Depending on how far you want to go, there is probably the sort of rock you want somewhere!


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Diana said:


> There are MANY landscape stores in CA. Look up Masonry, Soils, Bricks, Rock, Stone and any other name that comes to mind. They will sell stone by the pound, by the bag (often 100 lbs), by the truckload, by the ton... any way you want to buy it!
> Just google each of those words with the area you want to stay in. Los Angeles, Southern California... and I'll bet dozens of names come up.
> Then do a google map, satellite view. If they have a big yard, go there. If they have a small yard, go there only if they are near by, or you are already going close.
> Near me (San Francisco Bay Area) there are over a dozen stores that sell bulk materials within half an hour drive. I work in the Landscape industry and am very familiar with all the nearest ones. (Just went to the best of them today, in fact!)
> ...


Hi, thanks for your advise. I live in the Los Angeles area and wouldn't mind driving a bit to find nice liking stones. I have been planning to use stones for an iwagumi setup, and also small stones to provide support for christmas moss trees. A forum member advised me to get Ying stones because they look similar to seiryu stones, and I was wondering if you know of any specific stones that are completely innert? I'm just worried about stones increasing the PH or GH of my water.

Bump:


wildcat said:


> I literally just picked up some rocks out of a Taco Bell lawn. They look just like 75% of the Ada stones....only thing they cost me was an awkward conversation.


LOL, how did the akward conversation go?


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## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

Someone needs to take a piece of Seiryu stone to a geologist at a university and ask "where in the US can we find stone like this". It'd be a great little project to start a map of stone collecting sites. Hmmm....


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

PlantedRich said:


> We often get the idea promoted that things are sold for what they cost. That may make the bottom price point but does anybody really sell something for a low price when they can sell it for double that price? What makes a product expensive is the number of people who are willing to pay a higher price! Texas holey rock sells for $1 or more a pound in some shops when you can do a bit of labor and get it for free. But the price is not likely to come down when they can sell it for higher. Rocks from Texas or rocks from Japan, it just depends on who wants them enough to pay the price.


Not necessarily true. I would be willing to guess that quarrying stone in Japan costs more than to do the same here in America. Plus, they limit the amount of stone than can be taken: that's why ADA doesn't sell Sieryu or Hakkai-seki anymore. And as Vermino already said, those rocks have to get here too.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

USGS (US Geological Survey) is remarkably detailed about what kind of rock is where. 

Parks (National, State...) that have any sort of 'science center' will often have something about the geology of the area.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

AFA still sells it, but since its been illegal for export, and harvest since 2008 whatever is still out there is the last of it. A lot of what I see I suspect is not legit, and misidentified.


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