# Bentonite / montmorillonite clay and its benefits



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Rather than continuing to hijack another members thread, I thought I'd start this in my own. Can someone explain the benefits to me? I used it in my tank and a few of my plants started to melt, did I add too much? Does it affect water parameters? I am hearing this is a great product, but I can't find out much about it when I google.

What are the benefits? What are the risks? Any help would be appreciated. My husband is getting me CRS for our anniversary and I want to learn as much as possible about supplements before I get them.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

It adds calcium and helps raise GH to aid in molting. Yes, you could add too much. A TINY bit goes a very long way. It dissolves slower than most calcium supplements. 

I can't remember, but know we've talked about it.... is your water hard or soft? If hard already, usually you don't need it. If it is soft, a little at change time helps.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

It's moderately soft water according to the water reports, about 108 ppm GH. I noticed my downoi immediately started dropping leaves within a short time period. Maybe the raise in GH was too drastic all at once for the plants?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

It could have been. Do you use any other calcium source? I know you posted about another recently. You shouldn't need more than one. 

GH changes are hard on pretty much everything(animals, plants). I've never grown downoi, but for instance my blyxa freaks if you change hardness quickly. 

More sensitive species will definitely suffer. Long term it is likely fine, but changes must be done slowly.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Beyond the mineral benefits, it also is fully of negatively charged ions, and works much like the "ionic breeze" air purifier by attracting and trapping toxins. It also polishes water. A lot of people see my water and ask how I get it so clear, this is part of it.

It's true, the dosage in a fish tank, would be very minute. The product I sell has a suggested dosage of .12cc of powder per 10 gallons! At this dosage, it will raise the GH of the water minimally, and as far as I've seen, it's a temporary increase. By minimally, I mean around or less than one GH point.

As far as it melting your plants, I have no idea what could have caused that. I've never had a problem like that, and I quite a few extremely sensitive soft water plants. Although the reason I've never had that problem could be because I've always used a clay supplement, therefore the plants haven't had to get used to it. (although I rarely have a problem with newly purchased plants either)

Hope that helps!

-- liam


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Good memory. I am using calcium sulfate in another tank of mine as an experiment. This one I've avoided adding anything because of the downoi. The way the clay was explained to me, it sounded like it was a multivitamin and didn't effect water parameters. My fault for not researching more and asking more detailed questions. 

Once I did a large water change 80%, the plants have shown signs of recovery. From what you are telling me, it sounds like I may have shocked the plants. I'll need to find another way to help out my shrimps and their snail friends with brittle shells.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Beyond the mineral benefits, it also is fully of negatively charged ions, and works much like the "ionic breeze" air purifier by attracting and trapping toxins. It also polishes water. A lot of people see my water and ask how I get it so clear, this is part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> -- liam


Yes, it has a very high negative charge, thus binding to and neutralizing things like heavy metals and fish waste. This is the same way montmo/bentonite clay works.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

A mineral rock might work, as it will be slower. 

If you use these clays, put literally a tiny pinch in, and work up from their. 

High calcium foods will help your shrimp and snails, too.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

It must be that I put too much in the tank. I am going to put in a tiny pinch like you suggest and go from there. I am feeding the shrimp a high calcium diet and rarely feed proteins. I haven't seen a shrimp die for a while since I started feeding them more calcium sticks and there are a ton of babies, but the snails are still really brittle.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

mordalphus said:


> Beyond the mineral benefits, it also is fully of negatively charged ions, and works much like the "ionic breeze" air purifier by attracting and trapping toxins. It also polishes water. A lot of people see my water and ask how I get it so clear, this is part of it.


Ok, now I'm curious. I've used this stuff in my soil-based substrates before, but I've never heard that it can polish water. Do you just put some in a filter bag and use it like you would activated carbon? My water is liquid limestone as it is, so I'm not worried about it raising the gH at all.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I've read this, Lego when doing research on the plants. I don't know if this will help. http://www.aquaticquotient.com/foru...-or-Montmorillonite-as-graval-filter-material

From what I've been reading the last forty minutes is that you should use caution when adding to softer waters. Something about the salts in it. I am going to see if can find more.


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## Loachutus (Aug 27, 2010)

Thought this might be helpful, http://www.chelatedtraceminerals.com/montmorillonite_minerals.html .:icon_smil

@sewingalot, Do you have calcium or sodium montmorillonite?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

it's a mix of calcium bentonite and montmorillonite


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

And lego, i just dose the water column after water changes. I suppose quite a bit of it gets pulled into my canister filter, and the rest settles on the floor of the tank where the shrimp pick over it and eat it. It's pretty innocuous at the amounts I dose (.12cc per 10 gallons)


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## Aqua'd (Dec 20, 2009)

Bentonite Clay is also used in the Nishikigoi (koi) industry by many hobbyists in the US. Many claim it to be a "wonder supplement". This might be because it raises their hardness to the perfect amount and has a wealth of minerals in it (thought to be a large factor of color intensity in koi). 

It can be used as a lining to make a natural clay pond, or to seal off practically anything.
It is relatively common in beauty/health products (think mud facial mask).

As for shrimp, my RCS didn't do anything until I added a little tiny bit of bentonite, and BOOM! Babies everywhere.

I agree, a little goes a long way, and slow changes are the key.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I'll just start out with a pinch and see what happens. Funny, I just looked in my medicine cabinet after reading your comments, Aqua'd and found my mud facial does have this as its ingredient. I could have saved a few bucks, lol.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Adding calcium bentonite and montmorillonite clay doesn't make your downoi to melt since they will do fine in both soft and hard water. It is probably something else that did it, is your lighting strong enough, CO2?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

guppies said:


> Adding calcium bentonite and montmorillonite clay doesn't make your downoi to melt since they will do fine in both soft and hard water. It is probably something else that did it, is your lighting strong enough, CO2?


I disagree. While downoi might do ok in both hard and soft water, changing it rapidly can easily cause problems.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> I disagree. While downoi might do ok in both hard and soft water, changing it rapidly can easily cause problems.


I add the clay every time I change my water, I know a lot of people doing that too with no problems. I agreed with you that a sudden change of environment can cause the melting, maybe she just move the plants from another tank but I doubt that a pinch of Bento/mont clay is a significant change of water to melt it.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I didn't use just a pinch of the clay initially. I used a _significant _amount more than that. I read the directions wrong. I haven't moved the downoi, it's been growing quite well. And oddly enough, I changed out 80% of the water and the melting immediately stopped. Trust me, I've been growing downoi for quite a while with plenty of success, so I know the proper way to keep it.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

sewingalot said:


>


Must. Have. Some.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

sewingalot said:


> I didn't use just a pinch of the clay initially. I used a _significant _amount more than that. I read the directions wrong. I haven't moved the downoi, it's been growing quite well. And oddly enough, I changed out 80% of the water and the melting immediately stopped. Trust me, I've been growing downoi for quite a while with plenty of success, so I know the proper way to keep it.


Dang, what are the specs in that tank? That's the best looking downoi I've ever seen! Freaking gigantic an puts a lot of erios to shame.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> Must. Have. Some.



I have to second that one....


SARA. PWEASE.


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## fitness2go (Oct 13, 2005)

How do you dose out .12cc per 10 gallons?



mordalphus said:


> And lego, i just dose the water column after water changes. I suppose quite a bit of it gets pulled into my canister filter, and the rest settles on the floor of the tank where the shrimp pick over it and eat it. It's pretty innocuous at the amounts I dose (.12cc per 10 gallons)


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

UG (Also shown floating everywhere)
HC
Downoi
Rotala rotundifolia sp.
Rotala macranda
Bacopa sp. japan?
Bacopa salzmannii
Erio Type 2
Lindernia 'india'
&*$(*% Riccia
Rotala butterfly is hiding in here somewhere

The secret is my root tabs. They're made with love.  Although, right now the downoi took a hit with the addition of too much clay. Here's a current picture (yellow specks are shrimpers). 










I'm ripping out a lot of plants to make room for them to restore.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

fitness2go said:


> How do you dose out .12cc per 10 gallons?



I have a .12cc scoop, the syringe doesn't measure that low, lol.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Guys, it's great if you want to sell things, but let's keep it in the S&S and private messages only. All posts pertaining to sells outside of the designated areas will be removed.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

The plants are no longer melting and for now, I refuse to add anymore clay to this tank because of the downoi. However, I did start adding it to another tank and the snails are already showing improved signs. For example, they aren't as lethargic and the newer ones aren't so brittle. The plants in this tank are much hardier, so I am not that concerned about the effect of it on plants, so I am overdosing a tad.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

sara so basically after reading all this....is this should allow the shrimp to shed easier,breed easier, and the snails will feel stronger? where do i get this?


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## kozlany (Feb 25, 2009)

You could try and hide a bit of cuttle bone behind things for the critter shells. It's soft enough so that snails can actually rasp a bit off.

Cost you all of a dollar to try.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

problemman said:


> sara so basically after reading all this....is this should allow the shrimp to shed easier,breed easier, and the snails will feel stronger? where do i get this?


Overall, I think it is a good product. I would just say follow the directions carefully if you have sensitive plants, maybe under-dose at first. A lot of people with Koi ponds have been using this stuff for years. Here's a great article I found: http://www.classykoiponds.com/html/koi_clay.html

I can tell you it did clear the water up. Probably because of the clay properties themselves acting like a sponge.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Thanks sara. Might have to try some


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Brad, you should definitely try some of this!

Once I started adding back the rostram candy (am I spelling this right?), I am seeing some nice improvements in the shrimp. I am adding half the amount as directed just to be cautious and will slowly add more each water change. I must say I am noticing some major improvements to both the shrimps' behavior and the water. I thought my water was clear before, but WOW this is crystal clear. The biggest improvement is the snail shells. They are looking so fine that I have a feeling I am about to see some major snail population. Two thumbs up for the clay based on that alone. I'll try to get a picture soon of the shrimp and snails.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Glad to hear this worked out for you Sara! It's rostrum candy (rostrum is the 'nose' of the shrimp).

Lots of people are skeptical at first when using it, glad to see you stuck with it long enough to see the benefits


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for the spelling. I got the label wet and it's kinda smeared now.  I almost didn't try it again after the OD (my fault). I am very glad I did. By the way, what is in that food you gave me? Nicotine? The shrimp go nuts for it.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

lol, rory asked me if it had crack in it. And I told him I'm never that careless with my crack!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Here's a picture....forgive the diatoms


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## prjct92eh2 (Apr 8, 2008)

Is this the "mineral rock" stuff all over ebay?


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## anh (Jul 20, 2009)

you can get the same effect by adding a kitty litter (walmart special kitty) in the substrate.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

anh said:


> you can get the same effect by adding a kitty litter (walmart special kitty) in the substrate.


LOL. The clay in kitty litter is no where near the same as these clays. THe calcium content is negligible. People wouldn't use kitty litter as a plant substrate if it raised kh and gh. It actually usually LOWERS KH.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

although... You _CAN_ potty on it, just like kitty litter!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

i have kitty liter in my 40 that im taking down and im thinking that i hate it lol to dusty. i used the rest for the cats lol


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

anh said:


> you can get the same effect by adding a kitty litter (walmart special kitty) in the substrate.


Not in my experience, I use basically the equivalent of kitty liter (Turface) and it doesn't help. I'll get some pictures of my snails in a tank with and without the addition of the bentonite/montomorillonite clay and let you all see a visual tomorrow.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

So this sounds like it will help my nerites out and my crs?


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## VaultBoy (Nov 11, 2010)

where do you buy bento/monto clays? i have never seen this stuff for sale in any hardware stores over here, i have only ever seen it used in wineries as a wine filter medium. but they were buying it by the tonne and i only want a pinch. are there different grades and do i need a specific type for aquaria use?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Brad, I'm not sure, but it helped my snails. I need to put it in my other shrimp tank to see what happens. Vaultboy, I got it from mordalphus, but I don't know if he ships internationally. Send him a pm. Also, I have seen it in health stores and ebay, but I don't know how it compares.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

It will help our your nerites and CRS to an extent. Overall, nerites are coming from hard water, and putting them in our soft planted tanks will be a little harsh on their shells... It definitely helps, but wont stop the problem completely. As far as CRS are concerned, it's a great tool to help their white coloration stay strong, and will help keep the water very clean and polished for them 

And yes, I ship internationally


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

How much is this stuff? And for shipping?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Brad, pm him or click on his links for details. I don't remember.

Anyway, here is a tank without (pitting, breaks):









And with (no pitting, breaks):









That's all she wrote. :icon_mrgr


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## SpecGrrl (Jul 26, 2012)

About how big is a 0.12 scoop?

I have a 5 g tank. Should I start with a pinhead?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

It's tiny, about the smallest size scoop on your EI dosing spoons if you have those, or a small pinch (like a small pinch of salt)


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## SpecGrrl (Jul 26, 2012)

TI haz no EI spoons.

I put a touch on the tines of a spork. Then shook some off.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

unless you have extremely large man hands, a pinch will do


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## Trail_Mix (May 17, 2011)

anh said:


> you can get the same effect by adding a kitty litter (walmart special kitty) in the substrate.


How do you figure? Now granted, I have no knowledge of the, "Walmart special kitty" brand litter, but typically when people talk of using kitty litter in soil substrates, they're talking about diatomite or calcined diatomaceous earth, a sedimentary clay formed from the fossilized remains of diatoms from ancient freshwater lakes. It is similar to other calcined clays such as Turface MVP (calcium carbonate). While it has its own set of beneficial properties, it's hardly the same as far as practical applications. High quality calcium montmorillonite is a great addition for plants and invertebrates in established soft water tanks as well as the system as a whole by purifying the water and removing heavy metals and other pollutants bound to wind up in your mulm.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

This thread is from 2011. Not sure if the poster you are asking is still posting to the forum


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