# turning a 75 planted on no budget. help!



## Chartreuse Boots (Nov 16, 2007)

so i have a friend with a 75. it currently contains plain gravel, some cheesy ornaments, and one huge oscar. he hates that osar. why? it's a long story. the gist of it is: new hobbyist + stupid fish store employees + neon tetra + oscar = fail. so he's trying to get rid of the oscar. when he does, he'd like me to turn it into a planted tank for him. he wants to keep lots of tetra and corydoras, no oscars alowed. :flick:

now my delema is turning a 75 into a planted tank, on no budget. right now all he has that is worth anything is 1-the tank 2-the stand 3-the filters/heater. i am willing to spend some money on this since he is a good friend, but i'm kinda broke right now (blew it all on a high tech 16). he's also willing to spend some money on this, but he doesn't have much to spend either, and i don't want to bully him into a bunch of expensive lighting and such.



so i need cheap substrate, cheap light, cheap low light plants, and cheap fish.

i can get free large-ish rocks from the 'rocks to small to use' pile of a rock guy i know. i might need to splurge on some wood if i can't get some from a friend (i know a guy who is _always_ geting rid of some aquarium stuff, but it's hit or miss what that stuff is).

as for substrate i'm thinking playsand and worm castings. both are cheap, but i don't really know what much about that sort of thing... how much of the worm castings will i need? should i mix it into the bottom layer of the sand? or just leave it unmixed under the sand? do i need to rinse that stuff first? is there something that would work better? or somthing cheaper? is playsand inert? is it safe for corydoras?

omg lighting! his lighting right now is prolly 1x40w. bleh!
so i was thinking i'd try this:
http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Overdriven-Normal-Output-ODNO/18/
how much light would that give me?
prolly still low light, but more reasonable right?

then o'course plants... i'd give him some from my tanks... but i don't think that would work since my tanks a high light nanos. even if the plants survived, they'd be dwarfed in that tank. i think the best thing to fill in a tank that size on a budget, is a few 'tank buster' plants. giant hygro, water sprite, and jungle val..? (sugestions needed!) i'm hoping i can find some of those cheap on the S&S.

anything else i would need? i figured diy co2 in a tank that size is kinda silly...

...oh right, fish! is there a cheap way to get lots of little fish? ya know, _besides_ livebearers? like somewhere i could buy them in bulk? i was looking on aquabid, but it seems like it would be cheaper to just buyout the lfs. any fish sugestions? we're aiming for 40-ish small schooling tetra,








(silver tip Tetra are spiffy)

and 15-ish large-ish corydoras...








coydoras agassizii maybe?

and maybe a really cool betta for a birthday or something... because why save your money if you can't blow it on a $25 fish....











and because that is alot to read here's what i'm really asking for:
what kind of sand should i buy*?*
what should i put under it*?*
is ODNO a good idea*?*
what plants*?*
what fish*?*


----------



## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

Have you thought of a soil substrate? I have had good success with them. Walstad in "Ecology of the planted aquarium" covers it well. Essentially you get plain old soil with nothing added about $1 for 40 pounds. Then you cap it with substrate, I used Soilmaster (also cheap)

I have run 4x odno lights on my 90 for years, I am pleased with them. However I would probably only overdrive 2x If your 75 is 4' wide, you can buy 2 shop lights (the cheap ones) and combine them.

Good luck!


----------



## rat49f6 (Jan 28, 2008)

do two 4" shop lights each bulb overdriven 4x...$120 (fixture, ballasts and bulbs)

this is what i plan for my 55 gallon but doing a "natural" light cycle with the bulbs


----------



## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

rat49f6 said:


> do two 4" shop lights each bulb overdriven 4x...$120 (fixture, ballasts and bulbs)
> 
> this is what i plan for my 55 gallon but doing a "natural" light cycle with the bulbs


I dont know for sure, but I dont think that the light output is increased that much by overdriving x4 instead of x2. When I looked at it (a long time ago) there was not a lot of data to analyze. 

That being said, I have 2 odno x4 I did build a light and hood for a 55 that has 2 x2 but I do not believe it is up and running yet.

You should be able to do the x2 for less than $20 not including bulbs. 

If you want pm me if you have questions on the wiring.


----------



## Chartreuse Boots (Nov 16, 2007)

so i'm going to do topsoil/sand... but how much dirt do i use? i've read that you can use too much and then your tank becomes too rich. then boom! algae! i could really see that becoming a problem in a lowlight tank without a ton of plants to suck the nutrients out of the water. so how many pounds for a 75?


----------



## dtaubert (Nov 4, 2008)

you could try to diy light , use the same light and mod it for a compact florescent light or check these out http://www.fishneedit.com/t5ho-ligh.html


----------



## ohyeahcrx (Mar 21, 2008)

In for the play sand/Top soil substrate. I plan on doing that same thing. I think if you were going that route root tabs would be a good idea, or so ive read haha.


----------



## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

I will see if I can find it in Walstads book, I will try to take care of it tonight.


----------



## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

On Page 138 Walstad states she sets up the tank in the following manner.

"I layer the tank bottom with dry soil to a depth of 1-1 1/2. Next I cover the soil with part of the gravel so that the substrate is about 2" deep." (Note she does not wash the gravel) 
Next she fills the tank to a water depth of about 2" taking care to not disturb the soil she uses a dish when filling. Then she siphons off the cloudy water and then fill again with fresh water, again using the dish. You can test this in a glass jar with 1/2 cup soil covered by 1/2 cup gravel you can see if there are other issues with the soil.

This is from her book, not my words.

When I set up my tanks, I use a lot of Peat. I have had success with this, and if you are interested click on the 90 gallon link in my signature. I went in to detail in the journal.


----------



## Chartreuse Boots (Nov 16, 2007)

thanks so much!

still trying to get rid of that oscar....
any takers?


----------



## fishyj (Feb 4, 2009)

Try taking to local lfs and get what you can for him, either cash or product.


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

I am all for cutting corners to save a few bucks, but why bother if this is the philosophy...



> so i need cheap substrate, cheap light, cheap low light plants, and cheap fish.


Do yourself a favor. Instead of just rushing the tank up and doing "cheap" stuff, why not leave it empty for a few months, save up some money and put some investment into it. Maybe spend that time researching some things like lighting, substrates, type of fish, plants (and how to care for all of the above).

I find that rushing and going "cheap" never ends up being "cheap". And most likely you end up spending more money in the long run because of the headaches.

Just some experience and advise I figured I should throw out there. Do what you will with it.


----------



## Chartreuse Boots (Nov 16, 2007)

i apologize if i came off that way.
i didn't mean that i was looking for the absolute cheapest of everything. the intention of my original post was to inquire about where corners can be cut and where they should not.



gmccreedy said:


> so i need cheap substrate, cheap light, cheap low light plants, and cheap fish.


i had intended that to seem a bit acerb.
though rereading it now it does seem obnoxious i admit. 

my hope was by putting extra thought and time into the planning, i could save a few bucks without really cutting corners. also, i'm afraid it is not an issue of "saving up". the reason it's needs to be inexpensive is that it's not my money i'm spending here. and as much as i'd love to gift him a fantastic water garden... it's not something that is going to be in either of our budgets any time soon. and by anytime soon, i mean a few decades. X( and so we penny-pinch.


so in other news...
the oscar is gone!
....to the great toilet in the sky.
no, not really. he went to a local fish store.
well, not really local, it was quite a drive, but you get the idea.
the important thing it the tank is FINALLY empty.

and now to refill it....

i purchased some big bags of play sand and top soil. and as soon as i get a break from work i'm going rock hunting. then i can barge in and accost his aquarium. maybe tomorrow. bwahaha.

then i'd need to get the light together...

and then there are plants.
seriously no opinions on that?
are giant hygro, water sprite, and jungle val good choices?
is there anything better?
anything that you think would just look awesome?


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I have been researching substrates, for I believe it is the key to cutting dosing to minimum of ferts down to 1x a week. Tried El natural but since I have no gh or kh in the tap water I have to dose daily. Tried using peat but found some plants didn't grow good in it because it softens water and I have very soft water.  Recently did a mini breakdown and added natural charcoal to the substrate to add iron. 

Read people using wormcastings end up dosing with ferts. Homer_Simpson has a thread, mineralized soil vs wormstrate. Those whom use mineralized soil don't dose with ferts for the ferts are added into the substrate. It takes time and space to make it though. My favorite I have read about is fertilome seedling and cutting starter, which legomaniac89 uses here. 

For capping the dirt I think oil-dry, which is in the auto dept of stores is the best. PrBrianpr here told me about it. Thinking letting it soak in water would make it hold plants better. I have used pool filter sand and play sand. The play sand had a orange tinge to it. The pool filter sand from pool supply store was whiter and smaller grain but I believe some got into powerhead filter and caused it to stop working. Have read some use pool filter gravel but haven't seen it. I got tired of the 10 gallon tank that had pool filter sand, for I couldn't get the mulm vacuumed up. I should have just put some more sand on top after vacumming it. Sand can be added with tank full by putting it in a sock and opening the sock at the bottom of the tank.

What ferts you need depend on your lights, plants, gh and kh in the water. Stick with low light plants and you should be okay. 

To me the cheapest way to go is use plants that don't need substrate like rhizome and floating plants. Some floating plants, like anacharis and hornwort, can be put in the substate and are beneficial in keep algae at bay. Then make caves with rocks. The rocks can be glued with super gel glue. Gel won't melt in the water column. Test the rocks with vinegar to see if they contain lime. If it bubbles it has lime. Lime not good for most tanks for it will raise the ph up.

Trallen44 has the best low tech that I have seen here. He only has 1 32 watt, which is Zoo med ocean sun 10,000 k, over is 55 gallon tank. 
 
As to your question on giant hygro, water sprite, and jungle val good choices. I think all but the water sprite will be okay. Have read that some fish like to eat the water sprite.

From what I have read for lights it seems the cheapest way to go is to make a hood and get a recto kit from ah supplies or use shop lights and add daylight bulbs. Here is light example of different bulbs. The thinner the bulbs the more light you get to the bottom. A good reflector helps get the light to the bottom too. Can be made from gutter and shape as here. Can also buy at 
 The garden depot

I have found this to be an expensive hobby so it is best to cut corners where you can. 

Cheapest way to populate fish is to buy 1 very pregnant live bearing fish. Got a molly and put her in 10 gallon tank. To create hiding for fry put some sphagnum moss, which I boiled, in the tank. 

1 more thing check out craigslist.org. You just have to pick up the item from person.

 *
* 





*
*


----------



## Rich976USAF (Mar 27, 2009)

Platy make good fish to populate the tank, they breed often, in setting up 55g and adding fish little by little, I just built a hood with 2 4ft 40w bulbs. no co2 also of surface agitation and air stone and small doses of flora pride. but i might tear down to add sand over my old gravel, 

How can i add sand without draining water???? pm me if you have an answer.


----------



## griffin (Apr 17, 2006)

you can add sand by using a cup. just scoop the sand into the cup, dip the cup in the water, and the slowly pour the sand out. shouldn't create much cloudiness if it's been washed


----------



## Chartreuse Boots (Nov 16, 2007)

so i finally set up the tank today. me and kevin (the friend whose tank this is) had conflicting work schedules so it had to be put off... but it's done now so... yay!

i used a 45 pound bag of topsoil, and two fifty pound bags of sand. it turned out to be way more substrate than we probably needed... in the back it's like five inches instead of two... but big plants need big root systems right? i mixed the topsoil with the first bag of sand for a milder mud (it is a low light tank after all, plus i figured it'd stretch the nutrients a bit so the smaller plants could reach it). then coated it with the second bag (mud prevention and all that).

it's a bit cloudy, but better than i expected. i figure i'll give it a few days then give it a big water change to get anything that might remain.

next lights, and plants...
when i have time i'll post some pictures...

oh, and thank you everybody for your advice!


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

To maintain a slope you could put some metal splash guards in the substrate.


----------



## Rich976USAF (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks i think im gonna try to add the pool filter sand over aquarium gravel. 
The 4' two lights look perfect. added my moonlights i got on ebay. I have 2x10led sets.WOW


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Rich976USAF said:


> Thanks i think im gonna try to add the pool filter sand over aquarium gravel.


I think I read that someone did that and the sand settled into the rocks.


----------



## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

Glad to see this project moving along. . .looking forward to the pics!


----------



## Chartreuse Boots (Nov 16, 2007)

pictures!
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/yourtanks.php?do=view&id=1385

cellphone pictures, but better than nothing.
those were right after i planted, the jungle val was in awful shape. i'm hoping it's improved, but i haven't been over there... when i am i'll get more pictures tho!


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Found something better and cheaper than filter sand if river sand. Can be bought at landscaper company. Since I just needed half a bucket I got it for free.


----------



## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

What kind of lighting did you end up with?


----------

