# Bill's 90G High Tech Planted



## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

First off new to the forum, not new to aquariums. I've been in the aquarium hobby off and on for about 25 years when my dad bought me my first aquarium way back... I've been out of the hobby for about 5-6 years while I had somewhat of a life reboot, new house, kids (my oldest is 4, my youngest is 6mo, and I now have one on the way!).

My last tanks were a 55g community planted low tech with DIY CO2, and a 36G reef with anemone, corals, the works. Back when I did the 55G, I vowed that if I ever did a planted tank again, I would do it right, and not spare expense with DIY, and go all high tech (get everything I wanted in the start). I enjoyed the low tech approach, but had I had the money that I spent in trial and error, I probably could have gone high tech anyway.

As for reefs, I immensely enjoyed that as well, but that was a level of insane that I'm not sure I want to ratchet back up. lol. All my tanks were very successful, especially the reef, but this time I'm going for as much automation as I can and keeping the insanity level to a moderate crazy. 

After about 6 months of planning, reading, and catching up on the latest trends I have arrived at a 90G no expense spared high tech planted tank. The primary fish focus will be discus. I chose discus because one, I have never done discus, and two the coloration and variety really appeal to me and I wanted a more focal species.

Tomorrow morning I pick up the tank and begin setup (so new pics will start tomorrow), I'll try to dig up some of my previous tank pictures tonight as well. As for equipment its been raining boxes all week.  (this has to just about be my favorite part, opening boxes with new equipment!).

*Main Equipment List*
* 90G Aqueon with Cherry stand
* Rena Filstar Xp4 - I fell in love with these filters long ago.
* Lily Pipe (on order)
* 300w Inline Heater, Inline UV
* Fully Automated CO2 system from AquariumPlants.com (external reactor with probe holder & 10lbs bottle)
* AquaticLife 48" T5 HO 4x54 with moonlights
* Seachem Flourite Original - Always worked well for me in the past. 

Much of the focus is to minimize any in tank equipment and make as much exist underneath the tank or be hidden out of view.

*Livestock*
* Cardinal Tetras (Cardinal Tetras instead of Neon as recommended by Paul)
* Marble Hatchets
* Discus (not sure)
* Cleanup crew (Siamese Algae Eater, Various Shrimp, otocinclus, etc)
* Pygmy Dwarf Puffer - My son insists we must have a puffer fish! Honestly they are a very cool little fish! 

Being personally heavily influenced by a lot of the Nature Aquarium World books by Takashi Amano, this time I wanted to plan out and keep the fish somewhat themed instead of picking up the "fish of the day" and having 50 different species. Not that their is anything wrong with that. I've done it many times, its how you learn about all varieties, but this time is a little more focused.

As for discus, I'm undecided. I've been considering Red Turquoise, leopard/snake skins, etc... To go with all the same, or all different. Advice is encuraged here especially.

The hardscape will be mostly driftwood (which won't arrive until Monday), and the overall theme will be "amazonian". While I am specifying an overall theme, I don't intend for that to dominate choices in plant variety's. This is after all a personal tank, and other than maybe .01% would even notice if an African plant was in a Amazon themed tank.  

So far plant varieties up for consideration are;

*Ground Cover*
Dwarf Baby Tears (Hemianthus callitrichoides)
Micro Sword (Lilaeopsis brasiliensis)
Parva (Cryptocoryne Parva)

*Attatched to Driftwood*
Christmas moss (Vesicularia montagnei)
Java Fern (Microsorium pteropus)

*Midground/Focal Species*
Amazon Sword (Echinodorus bleheri)
Red Wendtii (Cryptocoryne wendtii)
Red Mellon Sword (Echinodorus barthii)
Red Tiger Lotus (Nymphaea zenkeri)

*Background/Sides*
Red Ludwigia (Ludwigia glandulosa)
Rotala Wallichii (Rotala Wallichii)
Corkscrew Vallisneria (Vallisneria americana var. biwaensis)
Ludwigia Broad Leaf (Ludwigia repens)
Rotala Magenta (Rotal Macrandra)

*Local Water Chemistry*
PH 8.0
GH 80 mg/L
KH 90 mg/L 

I'm somewhat happy with the local water. Preferred the KH/GH be a bit lower but with CO2 I think I can get the PH down around the 7.0 mark and have my CO2 be in the 30ppm area with little or _preferably_ no additives. From everything I read modern tank raised discus benefit more from frequent water changes than from perfect 4 KH and 6.5 PH. Given the tap water is adequate, my attempt will be to use it as is, and make it easier to do changes without having to balance additives in the water column (which can cause more damage than good).

*So... Here we are. *

 The eve of it all. Months of planning, saving, dreaming. I'm like a kid before Christmas. Tomorrow morning I pick up the tank, the filter/co2/lighting should be delivered by the afternoon, and that should give me the weekend to setup, fill the tank and iron out any issues with equipment before Mondays driftwood delivery. Then I can arrange the hardscape and substrate, finalize the plant species, and get an order placed for delivery by next weekend for aquascaping!


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Well done. Looks like you're well on your way to setting up a superb looking tank, and I for one will follow developments as you move ahead.

Couple of suggestions:
- Although you're going high-tech with CO2 (glad to hear you have expreience with that),
I suggest you don't plant the tank too heavily. Give your discus some swimming space, and arrange your planted environment so as to permit yourself to maintain a very good tank/substrate cleansing routine - very important to successful discus-keeping.

- Be sure to get reasonably-sized, more mature discus (suggest 3.5" or larger), and only from a well-known, reputable, experienced source to ensure you get good quality, healthy, well-shaped fish. I can direct you to high quality sources if you wish.

- Discus tankmates: Avoid Neons - the don't deal well at all with the higher discus temps and would not last long. Consider Cardinals instead.
Hatchets are jumpers, so keep your tank well-covered. 
Most shrimp would quickly become lunch for the discus. Amanos may be ok.
Be careful with SAE's, and Otos. At times, when they get older,larger, and lazier, some may tend to take a liking to discus' slime coats as part of their diet. 
The Puffer may be ok, but I don't know if it will do well at the higher discus temps.

As for discus strains, colors and patterning, it's all a matter of personal preference.
Suggest you may want to have a look at various strains & pricing on the simplydiscus.com forum. Click on the 'message board' & go to the sponsors section - check out Kenny's Discus, Daly City, Ca. - he's an importer of very high quality discus - find his thread on 5th Anniversary Promotion of Forrest discus from Malaysia. You'll see his price list and many pics of his discus.

If I can be of any help at any time, please don't hesitate to PM me. Meantime, it may be helpful for you to have a read of my Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus, located here in the 'Fish' section - first thread - the sticky - click on that that for my guide.
Best of luck to you.
Regards,
Paul


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

This is all terrific information Paul, thank you!


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

We have tank!

Man, the size of this doesn't do justice until you see it in person. Tank is in great condition, seems hardly used at all.

Now we wait for the lighting and CO2 system then I can finish routing all the plumbing, and fill for a test run. Happy happy!


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

That is going to make an outstanding, very striking showpiece with discus in it !

Can't wait to see it all set up.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Last night I was able to get the Filter, CO2 system, lighting, and heater all set up. Filled the tank to leak test everything. I was again reminded of the tenacity of water to find every possible route outside of its intended path. The reactor had at least a dozen joints that needed Teflon tape, as a tip I would recommend on a minimum of 6 trips around any threaded joint. Its better to over do it than have to dissemble plumbing full of water, which I had to do on multiple occasions. I now have a greater appreciation for the shutoff valves on both sides of the reactor!

The UV sterilizer was missing pieces which made it non-functional, but I don't need it anyway for a while, so no big deal.

Here is the reactor and filter;










Another picture with the doser. Very cool doser, almost makes setup a no brainer. Want 4 bubbles a second, turn the knob, done.










Lighting all set up and mounted in the canopy. The automated timers are awesome, and the led night lights turn the tank into a deep royal purple. Looks beautiful and nothing is even in it yet. 










Overall very happy with the CO2 performance, dropped the tank from 8.0 to 7.0 in about an hour and has stayed rock solid on 7.0 consistently.

So far so good. :red_mouth Now we wait for the hardscape to arive.

Until then here are a couple of pics from my saltwater reef days.










and my anemone and the gold stripe maroon.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

That's a nice saltwater setup


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Thank you! I really enjoyed reefs, and DFW marine aquarium society is a great organization. When I tore it down, all the corals were given to members.

OK... Hardscape and substrate are done. Plants are ordered and should be here Friday for the aquascaping, and refill!

Driftwood was a little larger than the design I had in mind, but isn't it always.  What you can't see in the pictures is the 13" ceramic tile all the pieces are mounted too. They seemed very buoyant so I took extra care to make sure they don't start floating up mid-fill! :icon_eek:

Anyway.. Long day, but nice having it ready for Friday since the next two days are Halloween, and dinner with the wifey. She deserves it after all this madness! (although shes super excited too!)


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

This is going to be a AWESOME TANK!!!

I had a 110g X-High which is th same foot print of the 90g but was 30" tall! Same look to the stand and everything, except it was all Oceanic, and I got it used too! It was a awesome tank too, but I took a bath every time I had to do maintenance! So the 90g is the way to go! 

Wood looks very nice too! 

a couple of things I noticed and a question or 2. First is the tube you are using for the Co2, actual Co2 tubing or silicone? IF it is silicone I would change it ASAP! You will loose a lot of your Co2 before it gets to the tank, as it leaks through silicone tubing! Also hopefully you have better luck with the plastic check valve in the Co2 line then I did! The check valve I had looked similar, and failed pretty quick. I don't know if it was the Co2 breaking it down or what but I would get a good brass/SS inline check valve! You can find them in the Classified section on this site!

As for the questions, where did you get it and what brand is the tubing you have connecting your filter and stuff together? It looks very bendable without kinking, like regular poly tubing is! 

Lastly did you rinse the Flourite? I started off with Flourite, and it needed to be rinsed VERY WELL to keep from clouding up the water for long periods when planting! I read you used it before, so you are probably aware of it, I was just checking!

AGAIN I think this is going to be a AWESOME SETUP! I just wanted to point out a few things to save ya some trouble at a later date! Also HAPPY to see another Texan here! Are there any good Fish shops in the DFW area that deal with plants? The family Farm is on the north side of Corsicana so it isn't a far drive to DFW!

Best of Luck with the new setup!!!
Drew


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

P.S. Your Reef looked AWESOME TOO! 

I too was into salt water/ reefs for a long time, but cash flow has kept me out of it for a while now! I miss the beautiful fish and inverts, but not the extreme maintenance need for the reefs! Also if I loose a fish now I am not flushing a hundred bucks or more either! Since I have gotten into planted tanks I find a well laid out and taken care of planted tank just as beautiful as a reef anyday! Especially with discus and some of the beautiful shrimp that have hit the market in the last 5 years!

Maroon Clowns are one of my all time favorites!

Thanks for the pics of your reef!
Drew


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Drew, really happy to have some others to join the journey with me! Sometimes I get so excited in my vacuum with no one to share with, which is what makes forums like these so great. 

The CO2 tubing came with the reactor, and says its "CO2 resistant tubing", but I'll keep a close eye on it, and a metal check valve couldn't hurt.

As for the Flourite, I did not wash it (gasps). My experience with it in the past was that no matter washed or not, its going to make a mess (and I fully expect to have some staining as well from the driftwood for a while). In the past I had best results by trying to minimize disturbing the dust by filling the first few inches very very slowly (with a plate). Washing 6 bags of flourite would just be a nightmare that I'll let time sort out instead.

The canister tubing is what comes with the Rena (now API) Filstar filter (16mm (5/8")). I agree it is really nice tubing, very thick walled.

I'm really liking the 90G size. I had worried about the depth a little, but last night with the canopy off it didn't seem too bad. Although with it full of water, there isn't much chance of reaching the bottom, so trimmings are going to be a bit of a bear. Hopefully my plant choice and aquascaping will ensure I shouldn't have to do that very often.

A few comments on the driftwood. I'm really excited about how it came out. I've never had a tank with hardscape that had any height to it, and the "tree" looking piece on the right should come out really nice. I plan to use the Christmas moss to to do something similar to this;










You can read that full article here


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

COOL DEAL!!!

Thanks for the info on the tubing too!

Yep the "Tree" on the right is really really cool! after posting I was looking over your pics more, and thought the same thing about some kind of moss on it would be awesome!

The 90g can be a bit difficult to trim the lowest plants, but a good pair of long handle double bend scissors will help, I bet! They kind of look like a squished "Z", with the handles being higher, but parallel with the blades. Ya get what I am trying to describe? LOL The 110g X-High was soo high it was dangerous for me! I am only 5'9", but I have a long reach. I would have to stand on the edge around the top of the stand take my shirt off and with the tip of my fingers or long tweezers plant cuttings! All the time having to turn my head to the side and almost put the water level up to my Ear to reach the back of the substrate! All of this was going on a month or two after having my 3rd Spinal Fusion!!! So after almost falling a few times I decided to sell it before I had to spend another $100K to redo the surgeries that had been done the few years before!!!! This is NO BS EITHER! So I will NEVER have a 30"+ deep tank again unless it is big enough for me to SCUBA in!!!! The stand for the 110 was 36" tall, so that is why I had to "work" on the tank like that! With the hood on the tank and the Metal Halide Pendants resting on the top of the hood the cords of the pendants touched the ceiling! I wish I could find the pics of it, but after looking through my pic cds I still haven't found them. But I do have some, somewhere! LOL 

Anyway sorry for the side track! 

The Co2 Tubing will be fine then! There is a blue co2 tubing, and it is hard to tell which is which in pics! 

Well keep up the great work!
Drew

P.S. Any local fish shops with good fish and plants you can recomend in your area?


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

"Things didn't happen the way I had planned" seems to be a theme going here, but honestly I don't mind, its a fun trip and everything seems to be turning out well. 

The plants I had ordered didn't ship, so instead of getting delayed another week, I went to the LFS and was able to pretty much find everything I wanted. Maybe not in the best of condition, but good enough and cheaper to boot. Everything will improve from here on.

Overnight, still a little cloudy, but improving all the while..









Glad to see all the driftwood staying in place. 



















The tree turned out pretty neat, whether I keep it long term or not I don't know, but for now its fine. The java moss is beneficial stuff at any rate (if you can keep it in check).










Lots of pearling already.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Nice start


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Its been a week, so a little update. First off, everything is going swimmingly. /rimshot

I added 4 otocinclus, 18 cardinals, 6 hatchets, 3 SAEs, and my betta is hanging out in there as well. Everything is going good, growing out. Little BGA started in on the dwarf tears, so I added a Koralia Evolution 750 power head to get a little more movement. Currently its wired into the CO2 so it kicks on when the CO2 starts dosing.

Fertilizer dosing regiment is based on the Seachem dosing chart more less. Starting some NPK this week. Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate all registering NIL all week. Dosing a little heavy on iron since I can't seem to keep any in the water column. 8ml flourish iron is gone in about 30 minutes, then by a couple hours the red plants are showing signs of dullness again. Good tip BTW, if you have red plants in your tank, usually they start getting dull when they are lacking iron. The reason I love Oriental swords so much, they are like an iron deficiency indicator.

Kh has dropped a little to about 6.5 which is perfect, so keeping the ph around 6.9-7 to get around 25ppm CO2... Temp around 81.


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## ccbeauch (Jul 29, 2012)

looks good! love the hardscape. keep up the good work.


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## alipper (Nov 6, 2012)

Nice looking tank. I do have one question though; are you running all 4 lights at the same time?


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

alipper said:


> Nice looking tank. I do have one question though; are you running all 4 lights at the same time?


Most of the time yes. I run 2 in the morning, 4 during the day and 2 in the evening again.

I am dosing using the PPS-Pro method, and running the lights by that recommendation trying to keep 24 Wpg per day;

https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/light


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Added about 15 Glowlights this week, everything going well. Some pics and video I shot tonight. Have a feeling this is going to lead to a better camera. 

Quick Video walk around


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

See my 14g Biocube journal in my signature. There you will see a moss tree I made out of manzanita and zipties. I recently took it out if the tank due to hair algae accululation from the light intensity. You maybe interested in purchasing it from me. 

Beatiful tank, keep up the good work!


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

tylergvolk said:


> See my 14g Biocube journal in my signature. There you will see a moss tree I made out of manzanita and zipties. I recently took it out if the tank due to hair algae accululation from the light intensity. You maybe interested in purchasing it from me.


Yea, I'm having the same problem with hair algae and in fact threw away a bunch of the moss today. I'm considering riccia instead, or just keeping it trimmed, or just letting it go. Right now just letting everything go 70's style to get good growth. :hihi:


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Well I wish I could say things have been all "rainbows and bunnies"... Lost a SEA or two from jumping out of the tank. I've been looking for a glass top but can't find one that doesn't have a middle brace, and alas... I've got algae everywhere! :icon_sad:

I've never had this kind of algae, but then again I have never started with planted tank, my previous was an established tank that I went planted, so I assume this is a normal right of passage.

This stuff seemed to have originated on the java moss I got from the LFS, which was of poor quality, and my gut feeling when I bought it was to avoid it, but I didn't listen.

This was 3 days after removing the majority of the java moss. This stuff grows like wildfire!


Brown hair algae, Diatoms, Rhizoclonium? by bbrackeen, on Flickr

It "was" isolated to the java moss, but after kicking the hornets nest, it spead to everything in the tank.


20121201-DSC_0558.jpg by bbrackeen, on Flickr

As best I can tell from google, and these forums is its a form of brown hair algae most times refered to as "Rhizoclonium". Its VERY fast growing, very fragile, slimy, and difficult to remove without spreading all over the tank. I broke out the microscope and this is what came up at 40x.


Rhizoclonium? by bbrackeen, on Flickr

Today did a rather large (60%ish) water change, removed as much as I could in the 3 hours my back would allow me (mostly by rubbing leaves with my finger and thumb), and dosed Excel by the 5ml/10G initial dosing regiment the bottle recommended. We'll see what happens...

I've been doing the PPS-pro method, and my nitrates have stayed pretty much around the 5-10ppm mark, amonia/nitrate @ 0, and generally phosphates have remained almost undetectable by days end. Have been sticking with 24 watt per hour light cycle as recommended by the pps-pro method... Well sort of..

A little back story on when this started and became a real problem. About a week and half ago it had pretty much taken over the java moss tree, so I figured I would do a WC and remove it and just call it a loss. After removal it disintegrated and went all over the tank. Two days later, it started growing on everything! I immediately went into panic mode, stopped pps-pro dosing, turn off the lights, and paced around the room a few days.

The plants did really bad, started getting weak, turned translucent, and the stuff still grew. Hell, grew faster! If the stuff is going to keep growing, I might as well have healthy plants with algae, than dead plants with algae. So I kicked the lights back on, started back on the PPS-pro.

Plants started recovering a little, so today I thought well... If the ship is going down, I might as well try doing a huge cleanup effort and water change, and start dosing excel. So here we are. We'll see where it leads.

Lights still on, skipped PPS-pro today, will resume tomorrow (unless anyone else strongly disagrees). Might do another small WC and try to vacuum up what is floating on the substrate after today's massive cleaning. 

Wish me luck. :thumbsup:


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## discusplantedtanklover (Nov 17, 2012)

Very nice drift wood, I love it.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Maybe it is something like this. 
http://westerndiatoms.colorado.edu/taxa/species/Melosira_varians

no idea really.


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## Cardinal's Keeper (May 19, 2012)

Stumbled upon your thread as I am planning a 80-90g tank within the next few months and building upon my own ideas for this new one by seeing what other have done. Sorry to see the troubles you've had based on a solid beginning with very nice tank/equipment (im really thinking about that ultimate setup form aquariumplants!). Im not sure what advice I could give from the point of where you stand now. But these are things I do when starting a new tank that have always worked for me and may give you some perspective..?

First is your water source, even though the tap water may be good on the surface of things (hardness/Ph/nitrates) it may be high in other undesirables such as phosphates or silicates. With that your only option is to source some good RO/DI water. I have had a RO/DI unit running for about 15 yrs, so the cost of the unit has long diminished form my mind, but buying water was not something I wanted to deal with. I have never had good plant tank results when going high tech by using tap water. Always had algae issues. 

Also on new tank setups, I usually plant as heavily as possible and then let the plants establish for at least a month or longer with signs of high growth before introduction of fish (usually looking for plant growth to double). Keeping CO2 very high and only dosing ferts with the goal of "minimum effective dosage". Something I have just got a feel for over many years of plant tanks. Then moving up from there while watching the plants and keeping up with their needs. I have read where many others have been able to fight back against algae with excel and peroxide, but I have not used these methods myself. 

What I would do is try to go with RO/DI water changes and reconstitute the water for the tank. Lower ferts drastically while experiencing alagae growth. Get as many shrimp as you can to help combat diatoms and other algae. Experiment with less full light for shoter periods until algae is under control. It will be alot of trial and error until you see a balance taking place which will allow the plants to take over and be more efficient at absorbing the nuts than the alage can. 

Other things I would do if I were in your shoes (not that they will help), but I would avoid the air stone to keep CO2 concentration higher and move the surface skimmer to its maximum depth while still allowing the surface skimming portion to be effective on the surface. Help to draw water from the deeper part of the tank. 

Please do not take anything I am saying as a critique on you or your tank. I really like your tank/equipment and hope you the best! Just trying to give a different perspective 

Best of Luck and hope to see things improve!


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

> Please do not take anything I am saying as a critique on you or your tank. I really like your tank/equipment and hope you the best! Just trying to give a different perspective


Oh of coarse not. If I didn't want advice or other peoples perspective, I wouldn't post in a public forum. I always appreciate advice! Without a doubt, I don't have all the answers, and you have some very good ideas. Thanks!

I had a RO unit when I did my reef tank, and originally had one in my budget for this tank. Buying water at this scale would be an unnecessary cost when RO units are so cheap online. 

I'm still not out on the idea, and after the holidays, I might get another one. Honestly I just really wanted to avoid having to store jugs of RO water, but we'll see. I do miss knowing exactly what is in my water and building it up from nothing.

As for the tank, things really seemed to be improving since Saturday. The combination of excel, massive cleaning, and large water change have done wonders for everything, and I did a smaller change on Sunday to pick up everything that had settled overnight. A lot of plants showed over 1/2" growth in one day and algae grown seems to be better in check.

I expected problems from the beginning. That's part of the "fun", figuring everything out. Not to say you can't have problem free tanks, just that I never seem to have one, so I expect some challenges along the way. Like all things if you pay attention, and react soundly, things work out well.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Everything is looking fantastic, pearling like crazy.

I can only attribute this to dosing excel... I've never seen a large water change have such a drastic effect, but I could be wrong. I'm sure its a little column A, a little column B. 

As well I'm seeing half the normal algae on the glass (normally a daily wiping is necessary). Its not a very scientific judgement, but I have zero... I mean ZERO brown hair algae. I do see some green hair algae, but nothing I find alarming. As far as I can tell it could have been there all along, we'll see how it reacts in the next few days.

Removed the air stone and adjusted the skimmer, I like the look. Much cleaner, and I had it in there for no better reason than I had one laying around.

Nh3 0
No2 0
No3 <5
P04 0
KH @ 7
PH 6.8-6.9 (CO2 should be knocking at 30ppm)
TDS 205ppm (was 247 before Saturday, tap is 167)

Been skipping on the PPS-Pro Macro dosing (NPK), only doing the plantex, excel, and some iron in evening. Tomorrow I'm going to go back to fully dosing with the macro nutrients.

Current Daily Dosing (morning unless noted, would it help to split the PPS dosing morning and evening?);
8ml PPS-Pro #1 (Macro/NPK)
8ml PPS-Pro #2 (Plantex CSM+B)
16ml Excel (8ml morning + 8ml Evening)
8ml Flourish Iron in evening

Notes on initial Excel dose after water change was 40ml (5ml per 10G as per bottle), daily dose is 2x recommendation spread over the day morning and evening. One interesting note, the Amano shrimp come out of the wood work about 60 seconds of dosing excel. I never see more than one every few days, but apparently I still have at least 6 of the 8 I bought a few weeks ago. :icon_eek:

Full tank pic, hope this keeps up.


December by bbrackeen, on Flickr


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## Cardinal's Keeper (May 19, 2012)

Looking great man roud:

Just keep at it and making adjustments as things progress


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## Cardinal's Keeper (May 19, 2012)

Just thought I would drop this here in case you have not read it before. Even though it looks like you have a got things going well again. Interesting method and dead simple for the most part. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=173827&page=4


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Its been a week or so, and in this case no new is good news. 

Everything is going great, algae is under control, brown algae is non-existent.

Dosing is more less the same although I've moved to dry dosing plantex as the 500ml I created started molding up badly.

8ml PPS-Pro #1 (Macro/NPK)
1/8th tsp Plantex CSM+B dry
16ml Excel (8ml morning + 8ml Evening)
8ml Flourish Iron in evening

I've had small daily occurrences of BGA, but after upping my nitrates to about 10ppm+ they seemed to have lessened. Algae on glass has been minimal, and the green hair agae on the plants is all disapeared, and is minimal on the wood. Its enough to look nice and provide food for the SAE and amano shrimp.

Also lowered temp to from 80 to 76 degrees to see if that has any effect on slowing BGA growth. I think its safe to say discuss are all but out of the question, as my maintenance level is at a comfortable roar. 

Maybe a few angels, but I'm in no hurry at the moment. Just trucking along for a while.


20121214-DSC_1282.jpg by bbrackeen, on Flickr


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

You seem to be doing a lot of the right things, as your tank is looking just great !.

But I'm wondering why you're now saying that..... 'discus are all but out of the question' ?

Doesn't look like it to me - your tank appears, to me, to be just begging for 5 or 6 discus - lol ......but why is it you're seemingly backing off ? Just because of your lowering of the tank temp ?
Why did you feel the need to do that ?
Am i missing something ?
Very curious.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Haha!! Paul! 

You know I said that and then started looking at discuss again tonight talking to the wife. 

I sure would like to... my concerns are water changes and a little fear of the unknown.

I'm really pretty happy with my 40% weekly water changes. If a side effect of doing 40% weekly changes is that my discuss stay smaller, then it would be a benefit to me.

Lowering the temp is kind of an experiment on the BGA (cyanobacteria). I had read that it blooms under low o2 and accelerates under higher temperatures. So I figured I would see if I noticed any effect. That with higher nitrate should eradicate the issue.

Saying discuss are out of the question is untrue. I'll retract that statement. Nothings going to happen over the holidays, but the wife keeps saying she wants something bigger in the tank, and I would really like for that to be discuss.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, that really helps.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Glad to hear that.
And I can certainly appreciate your concern about wcs, and a little fear of the unknown - many of us go through that prior to taking up discus-keeping.

However, if you're comfy with 40% weekly wcs, you can get away with that without difficulties, IF you first get good-sized, more mature discus from a good quality, well-experienced & reliable source from the get-go, and are prepared to pay a little extra attention to a good tank-cleansing routine at wc time.

The rest is a piece of cake, as healthy discus stock with reasonably well-developed immune systems, are a very hardy aquarium fish.
They're just a touch more intolerant of poor water quality and conditions, that's all.

I really hope you eventually decide to give it a try - and you know I'll be there to help you every step of the way.
Regards,
Paul


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

*January Update*

Things are going well, pearling away like crazy! I'm thinking by next month I should be ready to add some discuss. :fish:

*Dosing*
8ml PPS-Pro #1 (Macro/NPK)
1/8th tsp Plantex CSM+B dry
8ml Excel
8ml Flourish Iron (evening)

*Parameters*
No3 ~5
P04 0
KH 5
GH 4
PH 6.8
TDS 186ppm (Switching to RO, was 260 before last WC)
Temp: 80

*Misc Notes*
No carbon in the filter (never have)
Seachem Purigen for chemical filtration

Lesson learned this month...

Never trust a single source for your PH... and I took it a little lightly over the holidays, with so much going on its hard to spend any real time working on the tank, but something didn't seem right. I'm not fully sure what the malfunction was, but I can only assume there is some issue with my calibration liquid, probe or something else. At any rate my PH has been higher than I would have liked (7.4ish) which means that for my target KH the CO2 level was much lower than I had wanted. Lost a few Otocinclus, but the other fish have been troupers. Any rate I have 4 PH sources now (2 meters & 2 test kits) and they all show the right numbers.  Thread details here if you're more interested.

My tap water has turned for the worse, out of the tap has been fluctuating between a TDS of 200 to 250 and the KH has been over 8, which is way too high. The overall instability of the tap has lead me to what I wanted to do anyway, go RO. So I installed a RO unit, and have begun the transition with a 25G change over the weekend. I didn't buffer it since my tank water was very high as it was (KH about 8 and GH about 10), this dropped everything to my goal (KH of 4-5). I wouldn't mind seeing the TDS lower, but that will happen over time. The long term replacement water will be buffered with Seachem Equilibrium.

Algae is under control except the damn BGA (Cyanobacteria), its been a daily struggle, and I'm getting good at my cleanup techniques.  I'm expecting this to remedy itself as I make the full RO switch, I can only assume something in the tap water that is making it thrive. Oddest thing, I've always done RO in the past, and never seen this stuff, so lets hope. :icon_cry:

Anyway thread is useless without pictures.  


January by bbrackeen, on Flickr


20130106-DSC_1503.jpg by bbrackeen, on Flickr


20130106-DSC_1505.jpg by bbrackeen, on Flickr


20130106-DSC_1516.jpg by bbrackeen, on Flickr


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

I call all out war on the BGA (Cyanobacteria), and have resorted to a EM (erythromycin) dosing. I know EM is a last resort, and if you have any ideas on what I might be doing wrong speak up.  Otherwise if I spend any more time cleaning and working on this tank my wife is going to think I'm obsessed... Wait.. :biggrin:

I dosed 1600mg erythromycin (200mg per 10gallon). 24 hours later I dosed another 1600mg.

I have seen within the first 24 hours all of the BGA turn pale and translucent.


Cyanobacteria vs Erythromycin by bbrackeen, on Flickr

After 48 hours it appears that it has all disintegrated; what is left is very pale and no longer iridescent as it usually is. I can report no problems with ammonia or perceivable stress to the livestock (including amono shrimp). I know you normally should do another 2 doses of EM, but I bought all the EM at the fish store (it takes a lot to dose this size tank). I think if I can just get a foot hold on this stuff, the elevated nitrate (shooting for 15ppm+) and cleaning regiment should keep it away for good (crossing fingers).

After 2 days I did a 25% water change and have started using replacement water of the following makeup.

*RO Remineralization (per 5 Gallons)*

4g Seachem Equilibrium
2.5g Seachem Alkaline Buffer
.47g KNO3


This results in replacement water with the following primary parameters


3 dGH
4 dKH
200ppm TDS
.2ppm Fe
15ppm Nitrate


In my effort of finding a better way to clean the BGA, I repurposed some of my beer brewing equipment. Without further adieu, I am pleased to introduce..

*The Siphonator 2000*










With the smaller hose and regulated flow it makes cleaning the BGA off leaves and the dwarf tears a cinch.

Also a few shots of the "Fish Lab".









and a full under tank shot (lot going on under there) :bounce:









Finally an update on the PH situation. Seems like the PH probe is dead, which is a inconvenience but not a huge issue. I need to know how to work without it (its taking about 5 seconds per bubble to maintain about 6.6-6.8ph) . So I added a drop checker ($7 eBay special). Since my makeup water is 4 dKh its as simple as adding a few PH indicator drops.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

*February Update*

The BGA is gone, and I've been fighting a little staghorn and hair algae, but nothing I would find threatening. I added a couple of SAE to replace the jumpers, some amano shrimp and a group of Panda Cory cats for substrate cleaning.

I've had a new algae appear, that looks like BGA, but is powdery when it is fanned off, and is mostly on the java moss, which is doing phenominal. I've added a Magnum 350 canister filter and moved the intakes around and I'm much more pleased with the amount of flow. I think a single canister is just not enough for this tank especially with the eminent threat of discus.  Just not enough turnover. It came with a bit of activated carbon, and I've been running it a few days. Why not, and so far the results have been pleasing, as I've had less of that powdery algae on the moss. I assume its the reduction of organics the carbon is absorbing.

Temp has been steadily increasing, and I'm around 81 now, and my goal is to hinge on 82. All other parameters are the same as before, TDS is slowly falling and is around 250ppm now. I expect it to stay around this range as my makeup water is at 200ppm using Seachem Equilibrium and Alkaline Buffer.

Did a lot of trimming, everything was getting way to bushy and I put the canopy back on. Next post hopefully will be with new fish from Kenny. 


February.jpg by bbrackeen, on Flickr


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## raulfd4 (Dec 20, 2012)

Wow - this has been a fun thread to read. Your tank has come a long way and looks really good now.

I'm with DiscusPaul in thinking that you should definitely go about adding some discus in there...


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

that last shot is gorgeous. great job


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks for the kind comments! It’s been a labor of love for sure. 

So I've been thinking.... 










That tank was one of the inspirations for doing discus, and obviously played into some of my decisions on this tank.










I'm thinking of removing the center log, the stems (which is kind of growing tired and shedding a lot), and thinning out the hygro. Letting the tears and spread out to the rest of the tank... Much like the Amono tank, but with my current hardscape on the left and right.

Its feeling a bit too busy right now, and I think a little simplification would help in maintenance overall.

Which by the way...:wink: I received 4 discus from Kenny's Discus Wednesday. They have been settling in and doing well. I had to settle with a little smaller fish to get the strains I wanted, but I think things will work out fine.

Anyone have thoughts on the re-scape?


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## Frank Abagnale (Jan 31, 2013)

Looking good!


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Ok, so here is the re-scaping. I'm really liking it. For the first time the tank is really staring to show some design. I still need the carpet to grow out, which shouldn't take more than a few weeks.


20130210-DSC_1622.jpg by bbrackeen, on Flickr

The discus really like hanging out by the tree, which was the plan. They can still run into the left side and hide out if they want, but the majority of the time they are staying out.


20130210-DSC_1629.jpg by bbrackeen, on Flickr

The dark one is normally a little lighter purple, but I guess I caught him on an off moment. They are eating well, mostly frozen blood worms, but I'm going to start weaning them off FBW, and onto tetra color bits this week. I installed a eheim dual automatic feeder into the canopy; half flakes, and the other half color bits. They nibbled on them, but spit them out after. I give them a couple of days and they'll have this down to a science. 

All is well!


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## OKnights112 (Oct 17, 2012)

Absolutely stunning tank. I love the driftwood. The discus look great.


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## iter (Apr 24, 2012)

Amazing! You really integrated the swords well!!!

The only thing that is bugging me is the big driftwood on the right.....I just think it stops the wonderful flow of the aquascape that is coming from the left side of the tank. I understand that your idea of a "tree", but the "uprightness" of the driftwood is halting that flow made by the slope coming in from the left.

As you can see in Amano's tank that you pictured earlier, there is little or no vertical lines at all because it stops the flow of the aquascape.


Sorry if what I said was a little too harsh, that was the critic in me talking :iamwithst.
But I seriously think that you should do something about that driftwood.

Good luck!!!


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Overall, your tank and the discus look just superb ! Keep up the good work - I'll bet it's a great satisfaction to you.
All the best for the future.
Regards,
Paul


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

No worries at all...  I love to talk about designs.

When I did the layout I did so with the "Golden Selection" in mind. If you were to draw intersecting triangles from the top left to the bottom right (following the hardscape slope), and then the same from the right treetop to the left; the layout follows the 3/5ths rule (well at least was my intention). The layout style I chose was based off Amano's U-Composition. (See Nature World Aquarium book 1, page 156-159). My success, as with most things artistic, is subjective to the viewer.

Not much I can do about it now though since its attached to 18" of slate under 3-4 inches of substrate. lol... (makes it easy to come up with excuses to keep it doesn't it) :biggrin: 

The discus seem to really like it since they all hang out around it most of the time. When I added it my thoughts were of the lakes around where I grew up (east Texas), most of the fish seemed to congregate around tree tops sticking out of the water; as most of the lakes are flooded valleys. 

The idea was the discus would do the same, without some type of structure on that side of the tank I worried they wouldn't spend time over there.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

discuspaul said:


> Overall, your tank and the discus look just superb ! Keep up the good work - I'll bet it's a great satisfaction to you.
> All the best for the future.
> Regards,
> Paul


Thanks Paul, without your added nudge, I might have not gone through with discus. They are just fantastic to watch... Amazing fish. They are establishing their pecking order, and so far the carnation turk seems to be the leader, everyone follows him around (or her). roud:


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## iter (Apr 24, 2012)

bbrackeen said:


> No worries at all...  I love to talk about designs.
> 
> When I did the layout I did so with the "Golden Selection" in mind. If you were to draw intersecting triangles from the top left to the bottom right (following the hardscape slope), and then the same from the right treetop to the left; the layout follows the 3/5ths rule (well at least was my intention). The layout style I chose was based off Amano's U-Composition. (See Nature World Aquarium book 1, page 156-159). My success, as with most things artistic, is subjective to the viewer.
> 
> ...


Well, I think a way to incorporate that driftwood back into the scape a bit more is to have plants behind it.

One idea from the top of my head is medium-sized swords in the back in a way brings movement from the left side with larger cryptocorynes surrounding the driftwood tree. I also understand it will look better when the carpet fills in :biggrin:.

Keep it up! BTW your Discus looks great!


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## Meganne (Sep 3, 2012)

the tank is lovely, but I tend to agree with Kevin about the tree. I was thinking that instead of moving it turn the tree so the curve of the branch brings your eye back into the tank, as it is the lines of the tree visually send you out of the tank.
a small thing in a over all beautiful tank. nice job


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Meganne said:


> the tank is lovely, but I tend to agree with Kevin about the tree. I was thinking that instead of moving it turn the tree so the curve of the branch brings your eye back into the tank, as it is the lines of the tree visually send you out of the tank.
> a small thing in a over all beautiful tank. nice job


Thank you very much Meganne.

While we as humans define things as we see them; this is pretty and that is wrong... and the other such and so... It appears the real truth is through the looking glass. From the eyes of the fish, are they happier? It seems so.

Although it might not appear astatically pleasing, the tree seems to have value for these fish. It seems to be the congregation point for all feeling comfortable.

What that really means at times for me seems to blur; but for them it seems to be where they are at a comfortable state in their consciences because they keep going there because they cannot leave this glass cube that I have defined for their lives. (to which I do my best)

So I'm ok with the tree, lets move onward.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

*March Update*

Everything is going fine, the discus have adjusted well and seem to be more comfortable every day. I've not been as heavy on the dosing, and it shows in the HC (Dwarf Baby Tears). The carpet is showing some signs and the cory cats are doing a good job of tearing them up as well. I'll up my dosing for the next month and that should help. Algae is pretty much non-existent (well within reason and non-nuisance), so that's a great. :thumbsup:

Parameters;

PH 6.8
Temp 83
NO3 5-10
dKH 7
dGH 3
TDS 214 (IMO, perfect given my makeup is about 200ppm TDS)

Water change 25% every 2 weeks with the following;

RO Remineralization (per 5 Gallons)

4g Seachem Equilibrium
2.5g Seachem Alkaline Buffer
[STRIKE].47g KNO3[/STRIKE] removed; seems to be a nice balance of NO3 naturally.

On to the pics. First of the discus, whose coloration has really improved.

Maxie, the Marlboro Red, started showing some peppering after the first week (inherent to pidgin bloods) but other than that seems healthy. Maxie is the most aggressive and first to eat and out and about of the group and seems to do the most pecking (although it doesn't seem to be the leader).

Maxie by bbrackeen, on Flickr

This is Penny, a Penang Eruption, and the shy one out of the group. My personal favorite. Its color has really started to pop in the last week or so with very iridescent blues.

Penny by bbrackeen, on Flickr

This is Elvira, a Ruby Sapphire. It has the best shape of the group and is really a fish that is growing on me. Not shy, but not aggressive ether. Seems to have the best well rounded attitude.

Elvira by bbrackeen, on Flickr

and finally "Brain", a Carnation Turquois. This one seems to be the oldest, largest, and the most humble of the group. Brain is the leader of the pack, and is really interesting in how it watches after everyone always waiting until everyone else has been fed before eating.

Brain by bbrackeen, on Flickr

Right now they are all still being hand fed frozen blood worms, which seems to be all they are interested in. I've not really starved them yet, I wanted their first month to be about getting adjusted and minimizing stress. I've attempted other foods (freeze dried black worms, tetra color bits, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried brine shrimp, frozen brine shrimp, and flakes).

I need to get them on freeze dried foods, and bits, but just have not had the heart to starve them until I feel like there is a level of comfort and trust for me is there (which is growing every day).

On to the monthly pic;


March by bbrackeen, on Flickr

I'm really loving the new layout, and its simplicity of maintenance. The tree, a source for love or hate for some , looks fantastic in real life, and the moss is doing exceptionally well and remains the main discus meeting point.


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## assasin6547 (Feb 6, 2013)

Ooo that is amazing!


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Thank you, and love the Big Lebowski reference in your sig. One of my favorite movies!

This is by far one of the most amazing things I have ever done. Its really insane in person. I'll have to post a video. 

I am very pleased with things.


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## ccbeauch (Jul 29, 2012)

The tank is looking great! Discus are just amazing. With 90 gallon tank you should maybe think about adding a couple more friends to their population. I have 6 in my 72 gallon and that still seems on the small to average size of a group. I think I liked the picture of your tank on 3,3,13 the best but it looks like it is starting to fill in again and starting to look great once more! 

I was wondering what type of lighting you use because mine seems a bit out dated and dull and I wanted to make a change. Also, what kind of substrate are you using? The dirt in mine seems to still be turning my water a tea color even after 8 months of use and I'm thinking about changing that as well.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words. I'm enjoying it tremendously, just slowly but surely simplifying my process. 



> I was wondering what type of lighting you use because mine seems a bit out dated and dull and I wanted to make a change. Also, what kind of substrate are you using?


I use a AquaticLife 48" T5 HO 4 Lamp FRESHWATER Fixture w/ Lunar Lights. I love it, the on/off timer is built into the lighting. I also use Seachem Flourite substrate. I've used it in the past with great success as well.


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## ccbeauch (Jul 29, 2012)

where did you get your light from? I'm trying to get a cheap 48" T5 HO light. right now I have 4 T12 and they just arn't doing the job I want.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

*April*

Late update, my wife just gave birth to our 3rd child (It's a girl!) and I've been very busy with that as you could imagine. In fact, its long story but I delivered the child.  A first for me.

Things are going really well, very low maintenance, very little to no algae (just a weekly scraping on the front and side glass with a magnetic scraper, letting the back do whatever). The discus are trucking along, they are eating just about anything I throw at them now. Currently they are loving the freeze dried black worms. The little blocks can be smushed against the glass and they have a time pecking at them. They still get frozen blood worms and brine shrimp daily until I run out, I am no longer hand feeding them though. I just cut the filters off and drop the blocks in frozen. They figured it out.

All parameters are (pretty much) the same;

PH 6.8
Temp 83
NO3 0 (I have not dosed it in weeks)
dKH 7 (CO2 ~20ppm which means PH 6.8)
dGH 3
TDS 250 (I dosed yesterday)

I've REALLY chilled on the dosing and not really doing any method, just an occasional Seachem Flourish when the TDS gets below 220ppm, along with all the evaporation makeup water being RO (6ppm as measured). Water changes are pure RO plus Seachem Equilibrium (4g per 5G) & Alkaline Buffer (2.5G per 5G). I'll also note I am using 350ML Seachem Purigen as chemical filtration, and 1L of Seachem Matrix for biological.

Water change @20G (preferably) once every two weeks, though I changed it at 3 weeks last Sunday and the TDS was still around 220, I think I could push this even further. The tank seems to be in a really good balance and the plants seem to be keeping the water at a pristine condition. I've seen fluctuations as high as 260ppm after a few dosing's, and then watched it drop back down to 210ppm a week or two later.

I guess you could say my dosing method has been based upon watching the TDS level and adding when it drops down around 220ppm (my base level for makeup water).

The baby tears (HC) got the boot. :frown: The Cory cats pretty much tore them up, and they were becoming a daily nuisance in the surface skimmer. Sucks because the wife really loved them, but the utility of the Cory's out weighed the need to keep them. I have very little to no mulm when vacuuming, visually none, so some one (I assume the Cory's) are eating the waste, and breaking it down into a water soluble form that the plants are using for uptake.

Well enough banter, here is the pic.


April by bbrackeen, on Flickr


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Looking just great, my friend - keep up the good work.


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## bbrackeen (Oct 22, 2012)

discuspaul said:


> Looking just great, my friend - keep up the good work.


Thanks Paul. I know some of what I'm doing goes against the grain, but I'm taking a very scientific view focusing on things I can measure and perceive. My end game is finding simplicity in what was otherwise very complex.

The Marlboro Red seems to be peppering a lot (and had been from week one). Other than visually it has not concerned me a whole lot as I know its inerrant to the breed (pidgin blood) and it seems very active and its behavior has not blemished.

Other than that they all appear to be healthy, actively being seen, and eating virulently.


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

I love the tank it looks great. And congrats on the baby girl!


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## blazeyreef (Mar 17, 2008)

ah man this is like my dream tank. One day I will be able to house discus, my dream fish. Your set up is awesome, and for what its worth, I love the tree. And your discus are beautiful.


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