# Painted Fire Red Shrimp?



## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Anybody know where to find these??


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

It took me 2 years to get my RCS to this color. I did this all using selective breeding and a healthy diet 

I also have a blood red strain (kinda maroon)

So you could do this yourself with some time and patience and get a nice colony yourself!!!


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Psst, O. Message me


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

From what I gather these are a selective breed? "Fire Red" possibly not your average cherry? 

*
PM coming at ya!!!!*


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> From what I gather these are a selective breed?


Yup. Took a bit of time.


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Selective breeding? With RCS it's pretty much impossible to prevent them from breeding.

Do people just keep the reddest ones and cull the rest? Also, it's pretty hard to tell the color intensity until they get to adulthood.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> From what I gather these are a selective breed? "Fire Red" possibly not your average cherry?
> 
> *
> PM coming at ya!!!!*



Fire reds have been selectively breed to be a very red, with red legs as well. The difference between an average RCS that has been breed to be more red, and fire reds, is that as juveniles, Fire Reds, are bright red as well. Even the babies are pretty darn red as well.









Painted Fire Red









Super red RCS


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

TLE041 said:


> Selective breeding? With RCS it's pretty much impossible to prevent them from breeding.
> 
> Do people just keep the reddest ones and cull the rest? Also, it's pretty hard to tell the color intensity until they get to adulthood.


Give away the lighter ones.

As for the coloring... Mine start showing intense reds at a very young age.

Side note: a major factor in shrimp color is its comfort in a tank. When i took all of the fish out and dedicated the tanks to shrimp, the colors brightened a bit. Any preditors in the tank will instill a natural desire to hide and show less color, or blend in.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

Painted fire red. A selection of a best specimen in the group of Fire reds.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks guys and gals for all the lighting fast feedback. Within minutes of posting this thread it appears I have found my source for them. 

PS.
I changed the title to
*"Painted Fire Red"*


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## LedxZep (Sep 25, 2009)

EntoCraig said:


> Give away the lighter ones.
> 
> As for the coloring... Mine start showing intense reds at a very young age.
> 
> Side note: a major factor in shrimp color is its comfort in a tank. When i took all of the fish out and dedicated the tanks to shrimp, the colors brightened a bit. Any preditors in the tank will instill a natural desire to hide and show less color, or blend in.


I too agree that you can definately breed cherries to be extremely red. Im about a year in now from buying normal looking cherries and have culled the colony many many times and am getting close to those fire red shrimp. Im not sure about predators having to do anything with the cherries color because I keep mine with a dwarf cichlid and it seems that their colors haven't faded since he was introduced.


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## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

its not that hard to selectively breed yourself, mine Ive been doing only a year and they are ALLMOST as nice as the ones pictured. I just call em super reds tho


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

So, same species,same blood, just the cream of the crop?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Even when you do selectively breed to get the cream of the crop, they dont necessarily breed true IME. Its an ongoing process for me. I think good males are the hardest to find because they arent colored as boldly as the females, so are harder to pick out from the juvies.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> So, same species,same blood, just the cream of the crop?



Pretty much. They have been breed to run true to the red even as babies. That's about it.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

msnikkistar said:


> Pretty much. They have been breed to run true to the red even as babies. That's about it.


Just to clarify. Do all of you babies turn out to be as bright as the mom? Mine do not. I still have to pick lighter colored ones out, even off of the same mom. Is this your experience also? Some of mine look just like mom and some are what has been called "super reds"


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

So housing these with regular rcs will weaken the genes because of interbreeding correct?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Moe said:


> So housing these with regular rcs will weaken the genes because of interbreeding correct?


Yes. I havent found thes to be a self sustaining strain either. Constant kulling is required or you eventually end up with regular RCS or a low grade super red. Along with adding new genes to your gene pool.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

chad320 said:


> Just to clarify. Do all of you babies turn out to be as bright as the mom? Mine do not. I still have to pick lighter colored ones out, even off of the same mom. Is this your experience also? Some of mine look just like mom and some are what has been called "super reds"


No, not all of the babies breed as red. They are however, redder then your average RCS.



Moe said:


> So housing these with regular rcs will weaken the genes because of interbreeding correct?


It would basically turn your fire reds back to regular RCS


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

If anyone else is interested in these, they should message me now before its too late.


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

fishsandwitch said:


> its not that hard to selectively breed yourself, mine Ive been doing only a year and they are ALLMOST as nice as the ones pictured. I just call em super reds tho


Same, that's what I call them.

As mentioned above, yeah, the males are the hardest to deal with as they tend to be the lighter colored / smaller sized ones. 

I also have introduced "new genetics" several times in my colony to keep the gene pool diverse. I trade 'super reds' with other people in exchange for their 'super reds'. That way i can maintain a great color gene without inbreeding too much. Inbreeding is a great way to breed in/out certain traits, colors, and patters, but can result in deformities, or compromised immune systems.

I really enjoy watching my colony grow and change


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

These shrimp have already been inbreed so much theyre dumb, for lack of a better word. They dont act the same as regular RCS.


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## LedxZep (Sep 25, 2009)

chad320 said:


> These shrimp have already been inbreed so much theyre dumb, for lack of a better word. They dont act the same as regular RCS.


How so?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

They dont act carefree and flighty like others do. They sit or they hide most of the time unless excited, whereas other varieties of shrimp float about freely and are frequently making laps around the tank.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Painted red are like a cooked lobster, not like a see-through red.

You cannot see a saddle on a painted red shrimp


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

chad320 said:


> Even when you do selectively breed to get the cream of the crop, they dont necessarily breed true IME. Its an ongoing process for me. I think good males are the hardest to find because they arent colored as boldly as the females, so are harder to pick out from the juvies.


They do not produce the same coloration when you selectively breed.
I suspect they dope them.

The F1's are really fast and robust, but lack the color, the F0's are sluggish, wimpy, a few might die even with optimal breeding conditions for CRS's etc.

This seems to me that they are painted, colored.

I could be wrong, however, having breed them and having most of the F0's still, the isolated group, not even 1 of the F1's possesses the same coloration.

Not 1...........

Food?
Maybe......

Doubt it though.
F0's are still the same color.

If it was a recessive gene, at least some would have the F0 coloration, but that is lacking as well.

This fact leads me to believe that they are dipped or painted.
Perhaps some food etc. Otherwise if it where really genetic, we would see some like the F0.

So there's some other factor(not sure what, but it's not in the genes or general environment etc). I'm also wondering why the F0's are sluggish and slow, dumb sort of.......and much likely to die vs the other F1's which are that which you cannot kill.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

chad320 said:


> They dont act carefree and flighty like others do. They sit or they hide most of the time unless excited, whereas other varieties of shrimp float about freely and are frequently making laps around the tank.


But the F1's do.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

That's interesting, Tom... Perhaps the ones you received were doctored somehow?

There are tricks to make their shells appear denser (without paint or putting something onto them), but even without using those tricks (which is done mainly for show or photographs) you can breed them true.

I'd have to say that maybe your f1's aren't old enough to tell yet, or maybe you had some regular cherries in there throwing everything off balance? Or maybe you just got someone's painted fire red culls, or an unstable line. I hope you didn't pay too much for them


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> They do not produce the same coloration when you selectively breed.
> I suspect they dope them.
> 
> The F1's are really fast and robust, but lack the color, the F0's are sluggish, wimpy, a few might die even with optimal breeding conditions for CRS's etc.
> ...


Just a clarification. There are 2 types of Fire reds. Taiwan Fire reds, and Sakura Fire reds. Sakura Fire reds will throw out sakuras or normal cherry offsprings. Taiwan Fire reds were first achieved by a breeder in Taiwan whom had successfully selectively bred 5-7 generations to give off offsprings of only Taiwan Fire reds or Painted Fire reds. There is alot of controversy over Painted Fire reds because they are selected from the best colored Taiwan Fire red and are given the name Painted Fire red due to the intensity of color. Some people argue about the color and so not many people like selling Painted Fire reds since it is so silmilar to Taiwan Fire reds.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

These are pictures of my shrimp taken by Thomas Ng. Well except for that 5 gallon tank with about 150 of them which is his.


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

hmm how much do sakura and fire reds go for anyway?


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

Very nice dark red coloration!


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

jiang604 said:


> These are pictures of my shrimp taken by Thomas Ng. Well except for that 5 gallon tank with about 150 of them which is his.



I like this


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yes, these are nice. But take note that there a no babies or juviniles in the picture for breeding reference. I have shrimp just like these and better. Still dont breed true.


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

Who cares if they dont breed true all the time, the point is you can get them !!!

Even 'major' breeders of these dont have true breeding colonies. Its just good genes vrs bad ones. 

Some of the most beautiful people still have ugly babies....


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

> Some of the most beautiful people still have ugly babies....


 HAHAHAHA!!! This made me laugh today, thanks


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> HAHAHAHA!!! This made me laugh today, thanks


Thats because its true and you know it :hihi:


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

AAHHHH! Funny again!! I have seen some stuff in my day.......


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

chad320 said:


> Yes, these are nice. But take note that there a no babies or juviniles in the picture for breeding reference. I have shrimp just like these and better. Still dont breed true.


In your experience maybe. But if your doing this from a stock with breeding history your unsure of than possibly. But lets let the other people decide for themselves. 










here is a picture of some of the peewee sizes im going to send out. give it 3-4 weeks and we shall see if all will color up with same thickness. People can quote me on this. I GURANTEE THESE ONES WILL COLORUP JUST AS RED AS THOSE IN MY PICTURES ABOVE. With only a possibility of 1 or 4 out of 50 being sakura fire red type of coloration. It takes 6 to 7 generations to get consistent results and not 2-4 generations.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

What is a Sakura fire red? Same as Painted Fire red? Did I miss something? Im just trying to learn here!!!


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

here ---> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1201677-post30.html


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

I see now..


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I am learning here too. Its the sakura coloration that I thought was fire reds. I am making pointless nonsense now. So the dark, almost maroons are sakuras? The bold ones are Taiwans? and the rest are super reds? All of mine eventually turn out to be just like the adults. Except for a few which I am understanding are sakuras? Please inform us better, jaing604.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

This can get so confusing with all of the variations in one species.. I hope folks who start selling these can keep the blood true to there names.


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

I just hope I can understand it all! lol


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

You and me both. Really makes your head spin just reading all this.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

That's why I leave it to Frank to explain to me about it. LOL


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

chad320 said:


> I am learning here too. Its the sakura coloration that I thought was fire reds. I am making pointless nonsense now. So the dark, almost maroons are sakuras? The bold ones are Taiwans? and the rest are super reds? All of mine eventually turn out to be just like the adults. Except for a few which I am understanding are sakuras? Please inform us better, jaing604.


Think of it this way: Cherries (normal cherries) lowest grade and cheapest ones. Then there were Sakuras which were much redder than that of normal Cherries. Within Sakuras some ppl are able to get fairly red and solid Sakuras which is your Fire red Sakuras aka Sakura Fire reds aka (but never heard of) super reds. These arent selectively bred enough to give a 90 percentile of the same coloring and intensity as the parent. Also the red intensity is usually found in the females and males are still rather clear. The selectively bred out and stable line of Sakura Fire reds with a tad bit more red intensity to it and gives out 90% + same intensity and coloring as its parent is known as Taiwan Fire reds because it was first successfully achieved by someone in Taiwan. The males are still no match in terms of color and intensity of the females but its does have a higher coverage of red and greater intensity. Then theres the Painted fire reds which is just a selection of the best Taiwan Fire reds in the brood.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

So there you have it!!! Painted Fire Reds are the ones Im looking for! Thanks again for taking the time to explain all of this. There must be a hidden club or book somewhere with all of this info. I did see many loft type shrimp auction houses in Hong Kong so I dont doubt there may be a secret handshake I might need to know in order to get these.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Here is some German Shrimp Madness video! HAHA!
http://www.aquanet.tv/Video/189-zu-besuch-im-garnelenhaus-die-gebrueder-logemann


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## tw33kerloki (Aug 24, 2009)

Holy! GLA did you just link us to a German _*Scheiße*_ video? :hihi: Man those 3yrs. of German language 20yrs. ago... and I can only figure out 1 in maybe 5 words. Sad.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Now thats a cool video! Whats the moss from 9:36-9:40? That OEBT crypt tank at the end is awesome I want to see more video of that one!!!


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Not sure, but I will find out


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Ive got a little of it and cant find anyone who can name it. I like it because each "leaf" is a little wider than other mosses.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Pictures! Please!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

My daughter dropped my cam off a 150-200 ft. cliff. I cant even update my journals now that they are grown in. Figures! I do know this, its NOT flame, erect, willow, tiawan, peacock, java, or X-mass.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

It's probably plagiomnium affines sp. "pearl moss"... It looks different depending on light levels. Mine looks similar to that. It's also known as sulawesi moss, but I don't know that it's from there.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> It's probably plagiomnium affines sp. "pearl moss"... It looks different depending on light levels. Mine looks similar to that. It's also known as sulawesi moss, but I don't know that it's from there.


Thanks Mordalphus! It looks like this... http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:17&biw=1259&bih=576

Not for sure if its the exact species or not but im closer than I was. Thanks again!


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

mine looks like http://www.aquaportail.com/fiche-plante-1490-plagiomnium-affine.html

Some of the specimens (although none of mine) get very large, sometimes the individual leaves can be 1cm or larger around


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

jiang604 said:


> Just a clarification. There are 2 types of Fire reds. Taiwan Fire reds, and Sakura Fire reds. Sakura Fire reds will throw out sakuras or normal cherry offsprings.


I do not have that, there's no assortment. That is how in fact.........artificial selection occurs, *you have to have some trait you select for. *
The parents are still a notch above the F1's. I've had the F1's for awhile they are growing fairly good sized now.

If there is no phenotype trait, hard to do any selective breeding eh???
That is not present here(all the same F1's). Hence the strong suggestion that this is not genetic. More dye related/food coloring agents etc, and........ the poor behavior + weaker health(others have mentioned this repeatedly), etc......would certainly suggest this alternative as a much more likely hypothesis. Or perhaps some hypothesis not yet stated.



> Taiwan Fire reds were first achieved by a breeder in Taiwan whom had successfully selectively bred 5-7 generations to give off offsprings of only Taiwan Fire reds or Painted Fire reds. There is alot of controversy over Painted Fire reds because they are selected from the best colored Taiwan Fire red and are given the name Painted Fire red due to the intensity of color. Some people argue about the color and so not many people like selling Painted Fire reds since it is so silmilar to Taiwan Fire reds.


Aquarist are very good at splitting hairs and suggestions wild speculation(which may or may not be the least bit true), but very poor at resolving much or ruling much out. I know good breeding can go a very long way. But for the line to be a good one and assortment to occur, thus selection..........I should have seem some of the assortment, different colorations etc, nope........
I'd suggest it's just a way to hype the sales of the doped dyed shrimp........rather than some pure "trade secret" or the "source is such a good breeder and did a lot of work" etc.......perhaps they did a little of both dope and work. 

I cannot figure out why the F0's have such behavioral and health related issues that are clearly lacking in the F1. Never seen that before in any shrimp. Does not mean I'm not wrong.......so.....I want some real evidence, not some sales pitch, followed by parroting of said sales pitch on down the line to forums etc. Heard enough of that over the decades to fill several public aquariums.

I still like the F1's thoughroud:

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Not taking sides here Tom, and don't think I am. 

I am not sure I would agree with your statement stating that they are "dope dyed" to hype sales, and that there isn't something in the genetics that over a period of generations, hasn't been perfected.

In all honestly, the Asian and European breeders are so far in advance in regards to shrimp, that us mere US folks only usually get to look and stare at. I, for one, being one as I will likely NEVER have the money to spend 1500 on one shrimp. lol

I mean, if the case is that these are "dope dyed" an not due to genetics, then how would all the other variations like Red Wines, Blue Bolts, Pink Bolts, Pandas, Rili Shrimp, etc.... be out there? 

How would one, provide evidence to several generations of breeding? Documented images and what not? I am not sure, what is needed. lol Heck, I am not even sure how what you would provide as evidence. LOL

I see so many cool variations on shrimpnow.com, that for me, it isn't impossible to think that it would be possible to be able to genetically make the shrimp produce better offspring after many generations. All of the shrimp we have that are "rare" and highly prized (BKK/Pandas/Red Wines) were all variants to begin with, and after many many generations, they were able to be bred pretty consistently as well.


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

I've got Sakura shrimp.

Shrimplets as standard clear then redden up very fast.

Some come out standard, others come out Sakura.

Just gotta keep line breeding them.

I now have 4 tanks. Setting up tank number 5 this winter. Muhahaha


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> I do not have that, there's no assortment. That is how in fact.........artificial selection occurs, *you have to have some trait you select for. *
> The parents are still a notch above the F1's. I've had the F1's for awhile they are growing fairly good sized now.
> 
> If there is no phenotype trait, hard to do any selective breeding eh???
> ...



Fair enough, http://www.blue-tiger-shrimp.com/blog/red-fire-sakura/ This was more than a year ago. And now 1 year later http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/5388-Painted-Fire-Red


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> not some sales pitch, followed by parroting of said sales pitch on down the line to forums etc. Heard enough of that over the decades to fill several public aquariums.


Also, can you indicate where I said I was selling them? I only said i was "sending them out". Don't assume I'm selling something until I list something that is a clear indication that I am selling something. I'm giving away a good sized colony to a friend so that they can have first hand experience of keeping and raising them. I'm known to be extremely generous and always give out freebies. You have an account on BCA. Go check it out yourself. It was very nice of you to give out staurogyne to the Vancouver community when you came to give a lecture. Did you declare it when you crossed the border? a whopping 300 stems?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Let's stay on topic, folks.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

jiang604 can you post us a pic of one of your males, good or bad? My males are better than regular cherry males but I think I have some work to do with mine for better quality. Or is this typical for the males to not be completely covered? Thanks for your help.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

chad320 said:


> jiang604 can you post us a pic of one of your males, good or bad? My males are better than regular cherry males but I think I have some work to do with mine for better quality. Or is this typical for the males to not be completely covered? Thanks for your help.


sure thing =) wait till I get home. I got 2 midterms today and my last one ends at 8:30 at night -_- And its very rare to have males the same intensity and solidity as females. But there are males that are surprisingly red and thick. Also, there is a breeder in Taiwan that has such specimens.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks jiang604. Id just like to compare mine to some sort of reference point. Mine are painted red looking and darker than normal, just a little spotty on the color in the tail and on the legs. Just wondering if mine are up to par, or if I need to consider finding some others.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

I have a shipment coming in on Monday!


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Grats!


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Babies are in the tank Very red and tiny


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Nice, now get them breeding. I started another Sakura colony, 19 strong. I fished at least 8 berried females, a few other saddled along with some males 2 weeks ago. Now, I have about 20+ shrimplets that I can count hanging around all over the place. Best $60.00 I ever spent.

I think the fire reds are better looking then the Sakura though.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Wish these would become more readily available. Just need to wait a bit longer....


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Exactly, a little bit longer and you will have some for very cheap. Glorified water cockroaches really.


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

Must you call them "cockroaches"? cockroaches are nasty, and you couldn't give them to me for free. LOL


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Lots of little legs!!!  I guess you could be right. The bugs here in Florida are much worse.


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## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

Let us know when they come in.... Take lots of pics!



Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> I have a shipment coming in on Monday!


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

Post #71... said he has them


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## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

Any pictures??? How do they compare to jiang604 colony?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

msnikkistar said:


> Not taking sides here Tom, and don't think I am.
> 
> I am not sure I would agree with your statement stating that they are "dope dyed" to hype sales, and that there isn't something in the genetics that over a period of generations, hasn't been perfected.
> 
> ...


I think uncertainty is what drives some of the comments, rather than any real knowledge. There could be many things going on........and it's all just heresay as far as I can tell. And have seen enough of that in this hobby and in each sub group in the aquarium hobby to make me and my horse puke pennies.

It might take some more time to get consistent types.
Or other lines with the same phenotypes to cross with to strengthen the line/biotype. These are not natural slected critters anymore, they are artificial breeding/livestock.

I had a good long look the other night and found a few differences and some crosses in my other tanks with the RCs and these painted types.

I think they are nice and should be offered to the US Market certainly, 100% etc. But I question some of the methods used, seems something was rushed to get them out asap. Where is the cut off there?
I do not know.

Should they spend a longer time perfecting them?
Or get some out now........and sell them, then keep perfecting them or?
Not an easy call, and most dump the culls for sale, and keep the higher grades, different lines etc. So that might be what 1st came in initially.
Many unknowns and far fewer knowns.

Orlando's comments are similar to my own shrimps.
Still, a nice addition and worth trying out.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

Not to open a can of worms but how about them "Blueberry Shrimp". I bought several for years hoping to get a blue offspring but all I got were colorless to light brown offsprings that never resembled they're parents.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

l have the same shrimp hollywood but mines haven't bred yet. l do however have some blueberry shrimp that are currently brown. Maybe it's what they eat or water conditions?


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Cherry Shrimp = C/B Grade
Sakura Shrimp = A Grade
Fire Shrimp = S Grade

Fire shrimp is a better looking grade then cherries. 
Lol


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

sure do wish someone would post a pic of a fire red male. Ive got one thats as red as the females but is missing just a hair of color on the tail. Is this right or should they be just like the females?


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## dxiong5 (Sep 28, 2008)

chad320 said:


> sure do wish someone would post a pic of a fire red male. Ive got one thats as red as the females but is missing just a hair of color on the tail. Is this right or should they be just like the females?


It's tough getting males that are as red as females, you really have to be selecting the reddest of the red, which is entirely not impossible but time consuming. I too would like to see full red males. The males I have are relatively similar in color to normal RCS females.

Here are two pictures comparing a regular berried RCS to a Painted/Sakura/Fire (whatever you want to call it or grade it as):


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

These guys have tripled in size already and a number of females are saddled.


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## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

Any pictures of the baby shrimps you got before and how they look now?

Can't wait!!!


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

My Sakura females look like the second female pictured. Some you cant see the saddle at all.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

Does anyone know what the price would be on these guys? I bought 3 listed as RCS at Absolutely fish in NJ, for 6$ each. I wasnt really worrying about the price at the time, cause I made the trip there, didnt want it to be a total waste. Mine are really really red, exactly like in the picture, one of them is saddled right now and one has a pink stripe down its back like in the first picture in the OP. Excited to see what happens when they breed!


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## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

Any pictures ???? 



Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> These guys have tripled in size already and a number of females are saddled.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

I recently got some cherries and one of them is so red I cant tell if it is a male or female. Are there any other ways to tell males and females apart without being able to see the saddle? 
I'll try to get some pictures of it here in a bit.


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Pink stripe on the back means it is a hybrid.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

HOLLYWOOD said:


> Any pictures ????


Not yet! I can definitely see I do have males tons of saddled females. females are far more red than the males. But both are really nice and I expect as they get older they will darken up, few months I guess then I will take pictures...


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

I've never really bought into this sakura fire red painted jazz either. I have a colony I've been continuously keeping for the last five years now. Very selectively bred, and I'm getting to the point where females are a deep maroon color and males can be very red. I am currently trying to develop the males to be orange bodied as well, it'll take a few more years at this rate:icon_roll

Here in AZ people keep thousands of RCS in their ponds. You should see the shrimp they pull out, some are the size of amanos, some males are super red, etc, but it is all pretty random there are also plenty of clear ones. 

Also, if you subject RCS to very cool weather (40s-50s) over a long period of time, or more severe temperatures over a shorter time, they will change to put it simply. I'm not sure I buy into the artificial dying arguments, but there are other simpler methods to do things to shrimp to produce more intense coloration.



gordonrichards said:


> Pink stripe on the back means it is a hybrid.


I dunno what that comment even means, all RCS can develop a stripe, it is normal for the species.

With that said, I think this thread is really lacking photographs, so here are some of my purpler cherries... (in the first picture between the two ramshorns and on top of the MTS is one of my younger males, pretty red I'd say)


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

A Hill said:


> With that said, I think this thread is really lacking photographs, so here are some of my purpler cherries... (in the first picture between the two ramshorns and on top of the MTS is one of my younger males, pretty red I'd say)


Here's some photos. Since Orlando got them from me, I can provide both when they first arrived to what they are now. 

When first arrived, they were tiny little guys. These are peewee size, and were pretty small.










Two and a half weeks since arriving, they are now considered Juvenile size. Even at this size, it is hard for me to detect true sexes.

Possible Male PFR

















Possible Female PFR


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

I cant wait for mine to look like this!


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## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

I do hope yours turns out as red as well.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Heres a picture of one of my males that i bought from a member.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Thanks for sharing the photos, it looks like my males may be pretty similar. Someone told me it was the males that are really the impressive part. I think that female coloration is strage and interesting.

-Andrew


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Sharing a photo of one of my adults :^)


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)




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## Snikerz (Jul 8, 2009)

Here's one of my fire reds. Sorry for the watermark (found people who were stealing my photos) and algae.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)




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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

and then comes ... the babies in mass....


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## Snikerz (Jul 8, 2009)

Nice pics! What camera are you using? The pics look so clear. I wish I had money for a dslr but I can only use my point and shoot for now. Here's some pics of my juvies and subadults (1st pic is of juvies and 2nd is of subadults)


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Snikerz nice adults!


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## Snikerz (Jul 8, 2009)

gordonrichards said:


> Snikerz nice adults!


Thanks! I got them from a good breeder in Taiwan.


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## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

Getting them from a good source is always the rule of thumb when it comes to shrimps! Nice PFR!



Snikerz said:


> Thanks! I got them from a good breeder in Taiwan.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

chad320 said:


> sure do wish someone would post a pic of a fire red male. Ive got one thats as red as the females but is missing just a hair of color on the tail. Is this right or should they be just like the females?


whoops... been a tad pre-occupied


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Now that is a nice male. Wow.

-Andrew


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

jiang604 said:


> and then comes ... the babies in mass....


Snowballs with Red Cherries? C'mon Frank, you know better than that...unless you're trying to make chili shrimps?


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

jiang604 said:


> whoops... been a tad pre-occupied


That's the best male I've seen so far.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

ShortFin said:


> Snowballs with Red Cherries? C'mon Frank, you know better than that...unless you're trying to make chili shrimps?


PFFT i know that LMAO it was only used to show there was no editing. but now i see some pink snowballs LMAO cuz those ones are clear and the PFR are behind it making it look pinkish -_-


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## Snikerz (Jul 8, 2009)

Nice male. I've found a couple that looked like that but the majority were way less colorful than the females. I wonder what would happen if the snowballs and fire reds breed? Would they just come out as brown?


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

I meant to say Rili Shrimp, not Chili Shrimp for my post above. Snowballs x Red Cherry = Rili <-- guessing only :icon_smil


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

ShortFin said:


> I meant to say Rili Shrimp, not Chili Shrimp for my post above. Snowballs x Red Cherry = Rili <-- guessing only :icon_smil


That maybe worth trying as Rili's don't breed true still.


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## smg980 (Dec 28, 2007)

If you took a small mid grade cherry colony and introduced some painted fires, would you get a better grade of cherries and a more diverse gene pool? Or, would you just end up with regular mid grade cherries if you didn't selectively breed them, basically wasting money on painted fires?


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

smg980 said:


> If you took a small mid grade cherry colony and introduced some painted fires, would you get a better grade of cherries and a more diverse gene pool? Or, would you just end up with regular mid grade cherries if you didn't selectively breed them, basically wasting money on painted fires?


TOTAL waste. cross with PFR and its good luck trying to get it back


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## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

smg980 said:


> If you took a small mid grade cherry colony and introduced some painted fires, would you get a better grade of cherries and a more diverse gene pool? Or, would you just end up with regular mid grade cherries if you didn't selectively breed them, basically wasting money on painted fires?



haha, why don't you just let those painted fire reds alone and let them do their thing? Unless you only have one sex of them...


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## smg980 (Dec 28, 2007)

justin182 said:


> haha, why don't you just let those painted fire reds alone and let them do their thing? Unless you only have one sex of them...


Don't currently have painted fires, and was trying to increase the redness of my current colony of cherries. Was thinking that this could speed up the selective breeding process.

Any thoughts?


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

smg980 said:


> Don't currently have painted fires, and was trying to increase the redness of my current colony of cherries. Was thinking that this could speed up the selective breeding process.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Personally i'd keep them separate. But that's just me.


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## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

smg980 said:


> Don't currently have painted fires, and was trying to increase the redness of my current colony of cherries. Was thinking that this could speed up the selective breeding process.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Yes you could do that. The red level is gonna go up in you regular rsc. But I would think that they won't get to the Painted Fire Red grade any time soon, if you ever will. I will say just separate them at first and once you have quite a few extra painted fire red offapings, put a few of those inside you regular rcs tank as an experiment/test. This way, you can see how the regular rcs improves while also keeping the Painted Red ones.


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## amcoffeegirl (May 26, 2009)

I know im so behind the times but i just ordered some fire reds today. im so excited. i hope by now they dont seem like doped up cherries.


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## Naekuh (Oct 19, 2011)

Holy cow... painted fire reds... are they hard to get after the 1 yr this thread talked about them?


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nah they're easy to get right now.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

that was my pic to begin with in this thread, I must have 500 to 1000 in my 120 Gal Dutch tank.


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## amcoffeegirl (May 26, 2009)

i hope mine are that nice.


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