# Otocinclus Help!



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

stress would be my guess on the color shift

Here otto won't touch any veggies the first 24hrs and it seems like they wait until it softens some. the pleco are on things right away but the otto are always on the leftovers. 

I prefer to have more than one in a tank but with introduction losses at times a single will remain for months alone. Most offered in the U.S. are wild caught, starved and stressed beyond belief before we get them so losses can be at a very high ratio. I recommend use of a quarantine tank on all new additions to avoid larger problems.


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## touch of sky (Nov 1, 2011)

I'd suggest putting in a slice of cucumber. I weight mine down with a straightened out plant weight pushed into the side of the slice like a lollipop. It is the only thing I have found that my otos will eat. If you don't have a strip of plant weight, you can use a small fork stuck into the side of the cucumber. My otos love cucumber, and you will be amazed at how quickly they find it.
p.s. I would try to get it in fairly quickly, because your little guy is looking thin.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

I tried giving mine the cheap Aqueon wafers and they never touched them, recently I bought some quality wafers from my lfs and my oto will eat them. Also, I found mine dont touch a lot of veggies most people feed their otos but have found blanched cabbage leaves to be devoured. As someone mentioned, it can take a little while(a day) before theyll start munching on the veggies.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I'll try some cucumbers and zucchinis, do you blanch it first? Maybe an avocado slice? He doesn't touch Hikari algae wafers, or even somewhatshock's veggie sticks (which everything else in the tank eats). He does nom on the surface of an Indian almond leaf every now and then.

At least now I know he doesn't like leafy greens, the chard and lettuce has been sitting in there for a while, it was blanched when I put it in, he just ignores it.


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## touch of sky (Nov 1, 2011)

No, I don't blanche the cucumber. Just cut a slice and put it in, skin and all. They will eat the center out first :icon_bigg Mine didn't seem to bother with the zucchini (that was blanched).


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

How long has your tank been set up? Otos are very sensitive fish and often do best in mature tanks (3+ months old). 

What method did you use to introduce them into your tank?

An alternative to blanching veggies is to freeze them: slice up a cucumber or zucchini, then take them out as needed and put a slice in your tank (you'll need to weight it down because the oto will not come to the surface to eat it). They are nocturnal, so you likely will not see him eating it during the day at all.


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

When did you take the picture when he was pale. Fish react to lighting so if the lights were off in the tank before you took the picture that may be the problem. Both my otos and green neons have very little color in the morning when the lights first come on but after 20 mins. they have full color.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

jmowbray said:


> When did you take the picture when he was pale. Fish react to lighting so if the lights were off in the tank before you took the picture that may be the problem. Both my otos and green neons have very little color in the morning when the lights first come on but after 20 mins. they have full color.


Ah that might be why. I took the picture at night after the light had been off. Did not know they reacted to light. The large one was very skinny when I got him and he's stayed that way. 

The tank is a little over 3 weeks old with media & substrate from an established one, I did some more heavy planting last week before introducing fish. 

To introduce the fish I acclimated them very slowly with a turkey baster adding water from the tank to the tub of water they came in over an hour or 2. 

They both survived the first 24 hours, the little bulgy one (very big stomach for its size) died on day 5, it laid sideways on the ground then floated up to the surface. It was still alive when I put it in quarantine and very energetic, but died the next day. The stomach was yellow-ish when it was sick and turned a completely opaque yellow when it died. I know some varieties have a yellow hue, but these two were completely black and white without a spot of yellow when I got them. 

I guess my main concern is food, the LFS I got them from feeds a combination of tropical flakes, Top Fin algae thins, and Top Fin vacation feeders. All their otos I've seen are very skinny, except the one that died, which leads me to believe that it was probably a tumor and not a food belly.

I will try feeding different veggies at night. Maybe grow some algae in a jar, they seem to die off in my tank or get eaten. The pearl snails whose shells were completely covered in algae when I got them are now pretty clear.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

Another thing you could try. Msjinkzd sells Repashy Soilent Green, which is a gel based food. From what I've read about it (mine should be here in the next day or two), the otos love it, as do other kinds of fish. You might try some of that.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Try zucchini instead of cucumber, it has more nutrients. Get another oto or two as soon as you can. When you buy them ask how long the store had them (if less than a week, don't get them) and what they are feeding them. Ask when they are feeding them and return at that time. Or ask the store employee if he could be so nice and add just a small bit of food and explain to him your trouble with the oto you have at home. Then buy 2 of the otos that are eating. Take them home and they will show your oto what food is. Some otos will starve to death right next to a slice of zucchini because they don't recognize it as food. But once one oto understands it is food he seems to tell the others.


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

Sounds like it really wasn't anything you did wrong... the oto was likely sick when you got him. I'm sure the little guy you have now will begin to eat soon, and like others have said, get him a few friends.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

Another issue is that often stores will treat new livestock with antibiotics. Because otocinclus (and a lot of plecos) have specialized bacteria in their extra long intestines, this not only kills bad bacteria but teh good bacteria they need to be able to digest their food. If this is the case, there is nothing youc an do.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

msjinkzd said:


> Another issue is that often stores will treat new livestock with antibiotics. Because otocinclus (and a lot of plecos) have specialized bacteria in their extra long intestines, this not only kills bad bacteria but teh good bacteria they need to be able to digest their food. If this is the case, there is nothing youc an do.


I had this discussion with a guy at my lfs... I told him that I'm surprised that some company like Seachem or someone else hasn't come up with bottled/food probiotics to put in tanks after antibiotics have been used to help fish re establish the good flora in their guts.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

msjinkzd said:


> Another issue is that often stores will treat new livestock with antibiotics. Because otocinclus (and a lot of plecos) have specialized bacteria in their extra long intestines, this not only kills bad bacteria but teh good bacteria they need to be able to digest their food. If this is the case, there is nothing youc an do.


Hadn't even considered that. But good news is I saw him eating, in broad day light, shortly after I introduced 2 new otos today!

Found a pair of golden otos (last 2) @ the LFS. They're very small but looked healthy enough. I thought better my tank than Petsmart's overstocked cube, and they have a 14-day dead fish refund/exchange policy. I drip acclimated them then introduced them to the tank. 

Shortly after the pair started munching on the chard that had been there since last night, and my old oto started feeding on a veggie stick. They still all spend most of their time going up and down the dracaena (lucky bamboo) shoots, not sure if there's any food there.









new golden pair, very attached and inseparable 









3rd wheel, stomach looks fuller than last night's discolored photo; he also seems a lot calmer (no more thrashing around the tank and hitting the glass)









too bad he won't eat hair algae, or whatever's growing on the snail shell


Have yet to try cucumber & zuchini, will have to make a grocery trip tomorrow. Thanks for all the suggestions  I hope they stay healthy.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Do the zucchini. My 5 new zebra otos totally destroyed 1 2 by 2 inch zucchini slice (remove the seeds) in 2 days. I used a veggie clip to attach it to the tank wall. Yesterday I added another slice and they are almost done with it too. I love my zebra otos. Best buy I ever did online.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

How long can you leave fresh vegetables in there before they start messing with water parameters? Decaying vegetables add ammonia? But I'm thinking it won't matter too much in an established and heavily planted tank?

They didn't start munching on the leaves till about 18 hours in... they might just be eating the biofilm? Lol I haven't had zucchini in forever, will need to run to Publix in the morning.

Also getting one of those veggie clips, placing something in just right is a pain.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

go for the veggies labeled as organically grown to avoid chemical pesticides. Costs slightly more but since I made the switch my fish health improved and I'm sure it helped. Tropical temps in the tank the slice will be good for about three days before becoming mush if too large a slice is used.
served skin on and raw not blanched just remove the seed core.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

So you didn't quarantine the 2 new ones?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Did not, I was eager and introduced them on day 1. And I don't have a quarantine tank around :/ everything is filled.

Zucchini hasn't worked so far, I cut a little vertical slice and is hanging it with a clip near the bottom. Another little piece is held down with a rock on the almond leaf. Maybe when it softens up. 

I got one of these vacation feeders @ Petsmart (one of the things they were feeding them) and they seem to like it, don't know how healthy it is though, and there's copper proteinate in there which may mess with my shrimp in the long run. They suck the white powder that falls off (I put it on a large almond leaf), looks like they're snorting coke


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

*Always* quarantine new fish for a minimum of 2 weeks, and 4 weeks is better. No matter how "good" your LFS is, you always run the risk of introducing exciting new bacteria/fungus/parasites into your tank with new arrivals.

The issue isn't just the new guys, it's the established tank residents that may pick up wonderful new diseases.

I don't have anything to add to the responses of the others about treating the disease except that you're asking for trouble by not having an available QT tank for new arrivals. I have a 10g in my kitchen half a dozen non-plant-friendly fish, low-light plants, and a thin substrate that I always (*ALWAYS*) QT new arrivals in. If anything ugly occurs, I can always dose the tank and not worry much about losing established plants or livestock They're all expendable. The fish and plants in my other tanks are not.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Otos don't have the rasping power of others such as plecs. Definately want to ensure the zuc is a bit soft for them. After it sits in the tank a while, it will of course soften up. Best thing to do is to locate it where they hang out most. They will eventually hit it and then it's game on.


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

Petco is having their $1 per gallon sale.. you could pick up a bare 10g for ten bucks. All you'd need is a cheap in-tank filter that you keep running on your main tank until you need it for the QT tank, then simply transfer it over and you have a fully seeded filter (be sure to clean/disinfect it after each QT tank use before you return it to your main tank). Other than the filter, the only other thing you need is a heater and you're set. No top or lights required, no substrate either. I usually throw a few plastic plants and cheap decorations (most have them lying around from our days of clown puke gravel and sunken ship bubblers).


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

^ This is the best advise you could get.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I guess I've lucked out so far with new fish. Will just have to persuade the better half to let me get another tank, even if it's only $10. 

Think I can grab another Hagen Mini Elite for $7 online (probably too small), maybe an AquaClear 20. None of my tanks are heated, 74-78F in apartment throughout. The otos really went to town on that vacation feeder, I guess it's what they're used to. I'd prefer to supplement with fresh veggies, will keep trying. Zucchini softened up a bit this morning and they took a few nibbles.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Liam posted in a shrimp thread that the ottos you find at LFS are generally near dead



mordalphus said:


> They're not sensitive to parameters, they are usually just unfed and diseased (wild caught) at fish stores, hence the high mortality rate.





mordalphus said:


> As long as they're well fed. Stores don't put algae, or algae wafers, or even fresh veggies in their store tanks, and otos don't take kindly much to flake food.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

What is considered proper acclimation? 
a: Varies by what it is and how it was transported from source to destination.
What is an appropriate quarantine? 
a: This is another and much larger topic than proper acclimation. The experience level of the hobbyist as it develops over time may or may not bring them to use one. 
Many here with years in the hobby have posted they do not QT.

Personally I won't add fish (or plants anymore) without a substantial quarantine period. Here tanks are always available for entry quarantine.


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

xenxes said:


> I guess I've lucked out so far with new fish..


I lucked out for a long time. Then, I purchased a few fish from a reputable LFS (the best one in the area) and added them directly to my 55g betta sorority. I ended up with columnaris and wiped out about 75% of the population, including all of my female bettas (some imported from Thailand). I will never not quarantine again.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

nikelodeon79 said:


> I lucked out for a long time. Then, I purchased a few fish from a reputable LFS (the best one in the area) and added them directly to my 55g betta sorority. I ended up with columnaris and wiped out about 75% of the population, including all of my female bettas (some imported from Thailand). I will never not quarantine again.


Ouch  Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll start quarantining new inhabitants (if I get anymore for this tank). 

It didn't seem to matter when only a few platys and snails were in the tank. But now there's panda platy fry and a small colony of RCS to worry about. I ordered a second small HOB filter for the tank to sustain the increased population (for ~7.65x turnover per hour).

I love how the 3 otos school together now. Quickly becoming my favorite fish.









Last night, hanging out.









This afternoon, round bellies on everyone!

Interesting to note the 2 new otos turned a darker color similar to the old larger one.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Need some help again, remember the large oto that won't eat? He got trapped behind the SS mesh and tore his fins. Pics:


















I think they're getting infected, so I removed him and put him in a 10g quarantine w/ Melafix & Stress Coat. Could it be something else? The fins are "fuzzy", and note the yellow spots on his dorsal. Does that look like bacterial or fungal? Columnaris?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Rest of tank is healthy, I don't spot any symptoms on any other fish. 0 Ammonia 0 Nitrites. 

I dabbed some H2O2 on his affected fin with a cotton swap and left him in a diluted soak for 30 mins (1/2 mL 3% in gallon tub, half the recommended dose), not sure if I'm just killing him faster. Most of the fuzz-infested dorsal fin came off.

He's so mellow and ragged, but still alive.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

I would put him back in the tank with the other fish. Stress can kill him just as easily as the infection. And if the fin came off that may be a good thing. Fish can regrow fins if the loss did not go all the way to the base.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

The white fuzz scared me, I thought it'd be contagious, and it looked like it could be columnaris. He doesn't show signs of stress in the 10g all by himself, still good coloration and hanging on the glass. Will see if he eats tonight. 

I removed the last bit of fuzz hanging off with a tweezer, and rubbed a little neosporin on his dorsal (petroleum should stay on in water). First time treating fish, hope it works. I'll move him back to his old tank in a day or two if the fuzz doesn't return, after the antibiotics dissolve off him so I don't mess up the cycle.


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