# Critiques needed before I finalize hardscape



## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

That looks good. Some housekeeping things. Do you have room on the side of those rocks to clean the glass/substrate? Also why don't you embed the photo right in the thread you would get more feedback.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> That looks good. Some housekeeping things. Do you have room on the side of those rocks to clean the glass/substrate? Also why don't you embed the photo right in the thread you would get more feedback.


Good point, I'll have to check about being able to scrape around them. I'll add the photo to the thread too.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

I like it. My concern was the same as Asteroid about having room to clean the glass. Otherwise I think its quite nice.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I like it. I would consider breaking off the vertical portion of the branch on the left (in the middle depth of the tank) because it is almost perfect 90 degrees.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

AcidGambit said:


> I like it. I would consider breaking off the vertical portion of the branch on the left (in the middle depth of the tank) because it is almost perfect 90 degrees.


Funny, I did just that before reading this. 

I had to make a change mid hardscape after I raised the back because the wood didn't quite fit the same. In my frustration I removed a few rocks on the right and ended up keeping them that way for a place to hold some mid ground plants.

I'm not entirely happy with the shape of the trail to the back but I think I can fix that with some small lava rocks later.

Now I need to figure oit plants besides the carpet. I figure I'll stick the smaller stem plants ear the back trail and choose bigger ones to fill up behind the rocks.

Moss and plants for the front and midground? /sweat

New update with back raised, hardscape glued and baby tears planted for dry start.

I don't plan on actually taking up every visible inch with babys tears but figured I'd use what I have and let them go to town.

The first thing I want to do is make the path up to the back flow more and pinch itself towards the back for better depth.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Beautiful!! Maybe some plants on the upper parts of the branches? The top of the hardscape looks a little bare. I would add some small mid ground plants on top of the hardscape.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

aquanerd13 said:


> Beautiful!! Maybe some plants on the upper parts of the branches? The top of the hardscape looks a little bare. I would add some small mid ground plants on top of the hardscape.



Thanks!


The top middle is bare and I'm not sure what I can do about it yet. My initial plan was to fill it with smaller looking stem plants. Both back corners have plenty of space ready for stem plants in general. Edit: actually I just broke off a few of the smaller drift wood branches and placed them in the back and they added even more depth while filling in the middle back a bit. Cool!


I definitely plan on putting moss or plants on the hardscape pieces but I'm not sure what those will be yet.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Perfect! I think after you do that it will be good. Maybe add just some shrimp at first to eat algae in hard to reach places?


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

aquanerd13 said:


> Perfect! I think after you do that it will be good. Maybe add just some shrimp at first to eat algae in hard to reach places?


12 amanos are ready for duty in the 10 gallon 🙂


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Good. They will love the carpeting plants. What kind of carpeting plants are they? Do you have co2?

Bump: Where did you buy the rocks?


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

aquanerd13 said:


> Good. They will love the carpeting plants. What kind of carpeting plants are they? Do you have co2?
> 
> Bump: Where did you buy the rocks?


Babys tears, and yeah I have the full co2 setup with a 5lb tank from my old setup.

I got the lava rock from nature aquarium in santa monica. He sells ada stuff and scapes a few nature style tanks there. He also mentioned that he likes to hand pick the rocks he brings to his store, and for the lava rock in particular he likes to find ones with faces that aren't the typical set of holes all over. You can see that in the big one on the right for sure.

When deciding on what to scape I saw that he was setting up a new tank with the lava rock and branch wood combo and I thought the colors worked well with each other so I tried it too.

Small update via twiggier branchwood pieces, mostly in the center right back. The dip to the right of those will have stem plants filling in the hole, or I might go back and grab more medium-small lava rock to see if they can fit in that area nicely.

I also reshaped the path with the intention of adding midsized plants surrounding the path as it curves up.


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## Ryan.Waite (Jun 20, 2019)

This looks awesome, great job.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Ryan.Waite said:


> This looks awesome, great job.


Thanks! It my third tank and its leaps and bounds beyond my first one.

Also, I think I've finished the dry start hardscape. I created a fork in the path up the hill, with one trying to get up the "mountain" on the right. Plants will fill in the elft and right of the main curve up the hill.

I also filled in the mountains on the right to add a bit more to the midground.

Sidenote: using super glue and cigarette filters is pretty fun. The reaction smells EXACTLY like when they bond a filling in your tooth.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This is going to be a magnificent tank!

Have you decided on the type(s) of moss you plan to use?


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> This is going to be a magnificent tank!
> 
> Have you decided on the type(s) of moss you plan to use?


Thanks! No pressure lol....

I have no idea what kind of moss I'll use or where it will be but I'm open to suggestions. On my last tank I did a half assed iwagumi that just required slanted substrate and two big rocks opposite of each other with some steam plants in the back.

This is proving much harder. Now that I spent so much time on the hardscape I don't want to ruin it with poor plant choice or placement!


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

I'm about half way there. Today I just got done filling it and planting mosses, buces and anubias.

Next up is stem plants in the back right and left. I also want to shore up weak spots like the left back side of the carpet up the hill. 

I'm going to sit on it for a bit and ponder for a few days as I continue to walk by it.

Anyone have any ideas for plants or sore spots?


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

If you could fit a lilly into the picture for some surface cover that would be quite nice. Never planted one before myself but I have seen them in others tanks. Would be nice to cover some of the mossed wood.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

minorhero said:


> If you could fit a lilly into the picture for some surface cover that would be quite nice. Never planted one before myself but I have seen them in others tanks. Would be nice to cover some of the mossed wood.


I ended up trying a lily but took it out. Couldn't quite get it right. I'm drawing a fine line between nanoscape and nature style and the lillies favored the nature style a bit too much.

I'm mostly finished planting now and this is what I ended up going with. I dont think I'm going to keep the emergent plants on the right for the same reason as the lillies.

Everything needs to grow out and a quarter of then plants have completely melted so it doesnt look very lush yet but I'm hoping for the best. Only two stem plants were floating this morning after planting last night! Ha.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Very nicely done. Looks great on the granite countertop.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

You did a real nice job with the hardscape and the submersed planting, but since your asking for suggestions I think the emergent part is too distracting and pulls you away from the main submersed focal area. I think you can do some plants up there, but it should be more subtle. What plant is that on top? it looks like an ivory.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Discusluv said:


> Very nicely done. Looks great on the granite countertop.


Thanks. That (quartz!) countertop was a story in itself. I bought the wood cabinet first, not realizing the top wasn't perfectly flat. That's just the rustic look I guess.

I went through thinking I'd shave it down to flatten it among other crazy ideas until I realized I could just get someone to shim the countertop you see on it. 

I went through 8 local places before a guy who also has aquariums agreed to stop by, use a spare piece he had laying around and install it. The others said they only do full kitchen jobs. I will say that countertop was not cheap but I was already in too deep with the cabinet.



Asteroid said:


> You did a real nice job with the hardscape and the submersed planting, but since your asking for suggestions I think the emergent part is too distracting and pulls you away from the main submersed focal area. I think you can do some plants up there, but it should be more subtle. What plant is that on top? it looks like an ivory.


Yep definitely agree. I cut those from my wife's plant to see how it would look and I don't like it. The problem is she said I have to keep them in the water until they root so she can replant them lol.

Wife says it is a pothos. I had it hanging in my other tank and does beautifully well. The leaves don't get damaged by the water and it roots like crazy. Grows very slow though.

Do you have any ideas for more subtle plants there? I need something to cover up the cut sides of the driftwood. Moss will cover some bit a few ends (there) stick out of the water a bit.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

If you want to keep it subtle I would just continue with what you have in the tank. If you put some anubias up there right below the water line, some will transition to the emersed growth . The moss you can actually put above the water line as long as some of it is below. The water is transferred to the emersed leaves through capillary action. The dreaded Mondo Grass that Petsmart sells as aquatic also can look really nice and does quite well as long as the roots are submersed. 

I haven't done an emersed dominated setup, but those journals probably have a whole list of plants that can go up there. Those tanks usually don't have what you have going on underneath.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> If you want to keep it subtle I would just continue with what you have in the tank. If you put some anubias up there right below the water line, some will transition to the emersed growth . The moss you can actually put above the water line as long as some of it is below. The water is transferred to the emersed leaves through capillary action. The dreaded Mondo Grass that Petsmart sells as aquatic also can look really nice and does quite well as long as the roots are submersed.
> 
> I haven't done an emersed dominated setup, but those journals probably have a whole list of plants that can go up there. Those tanks usually don't have what you have going on underneath.


I ended up buying a mixed pack of buce from buceplant. I'm going to try those since I believe they can be emersed and submersed too.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Your tank puts Oliver Knott's to shame.

Register here.
https://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Some m. quadrifolia might be interesting if you could get it to do its emergent leaves thing coming up around branch at that end.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

aquanerd13 said:


> Your tank puts Oliver Knott's to shame.
> 
> Register here.
> https://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/


Thanks aquanerd! I think I still have a bit to go until I can build fully cohesive pieces that seem effortless but I appreciate the compliment!



DaveKS said:


> Some m. quadrifolia might be interesting if you could get it to do its emergent leaves thing coming up around branch at that end.


Ok, this is a cool one. I'll check it out after I see how the new buces look.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Ddrizzle said:


> I ended up buying a mixed pack of buce from buceplant. I'm going to try those since I believe they can be emersed and submersed too.


The buce should work as well. I actually planted a small group just below the water line in my setup. Between topoffs/water changes they do get exposed to the air so I think some will convert to emersed growth and continue to thrive without needing misting.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> Ddrizzle said:
> 
> 
> > I ended up buying a mixed pack of buce from buceplant. I'm going to try those since I believe they can be emersed and submersed too.
> ...


Yeah, I was wondering how a half in/half out buce would do. I'm not sure if the half emersed section would need to be misted or not. I hope not!

Unrelated: I was watching a video on amano making a nature scape and answearing questions. He got asked why he chooses certain plants vs others. He said he doesn't use anubias much because they dont look like aquatic plants as much as the others, which I agree with.

He also stated he doesnt use stem plants in his nature scapes because they dont mesh well with the non stem plants. There is a reason there are nature vs dutch styles afterall.

I was subconsciously thinking about both of those points while making this tank but couldn't point it into words like him. Well, I used both of those so I'll see how I like it soon enough!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Ddrizzle said:


> ...
> Unrelated: I was watching a video on amano making a nature scape and answearing questions. He got asked why he chooses certain plants vs others. He said he doesn't use anubias much because they dont look like aquatic plants as much as the others, which I agree with.
> 
> He also stated he doesnt use stem plants in his nature scapes because they dont mesh well with the non stem plants. There is a reason there are nature vs dutch styles afterall.
> .


Well he's not around anymore, but he (ADA) always used stem plants and anubias in their nature scapes so I'm not sure in what context or timeframe possibly he was talking about.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> Ddrizzle said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


It was recent and he said you don't see excessive anubias in the uh.. IAPSL or whatever the competition is.


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## shattersea (Sep 6, 2013)

Ddrizzle said:


> Yeah, I was wondering how a half in/half out buce would do. I'm not sure if the half emersed section would need to be misted or not. I hope not!
> 
> Unrelated: I was watching a video on amano making a nature scape and answearing questions. He got asked why he chooses certain plants vs others. He said he doesn't use anubias much because they dont look like aquatic plants as much as the others, which I agree with.
> 
> ...


I have a buce that is half in/half out. It gets a little more water coverage after I do a water change, a little less as the water level drops due to evaporation. Although there are leaves that are always out of the water, it seems to prefer being submerged as the leaves do wilt during the drier times. I do have HC "mini japan" that is happily living half in/half out:










I've also got an anubias "nana petite" that after several months has finally adapted to being emersed and is putting out new leaves.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Ddrizzle said:


> It was recent and he said you don't see excessive anubias in the uh.. IAPSL or whatever the competition is.


If you talking contests like IAPLC, then yes they are definitely more hardscape dominated with moss these days then stems. I never really focused on whether the anubias was in decline as well.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Just added the buces I got. We'll see if the ones on the right that are emersed make it or not. 

Water is starting to get a little cloudy as it's still cycling.

I think this will be the last major update and I'll let things start settling in. Can't wait to see how the steam plants in the back and moss fill in!


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Update: added a few more buces and some things have grown out. Just replanted a few spots that melted and never came back. Very happy with the top down view but still waiting for plants to grow in at the back side of the tank for the head-on view.

Not happy with how yellow the water us from what I assume is the humic acid in the aquasoil. I didn't have this problem when the gh was extra high from my dragon stones in the previous setup.

Fish wise I bought some samurai gourami which just look awesome to me and are just small enough to put in this tank. The rest of the fish are scarlet badis, neon tetras and white/red crystal shrimp.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Really inspiring tank! Love everything about what you have done here. Following!


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Beautiful!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

That view of the tank from above is outstanding!


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

A few things I've learned since the tank has been up:



Less is more with plants - I used a bunch of different moss and buces to experiment with. Now that I know which ones look best on which hardscape and at which distance from front to back, I would place them differently. It's kind of messy imo now.


Light obstruction matters - I got very creative with the hardscape and am proud of that, but it has put me in a place where I cannot get adequate light to plants in the corners or directly on the outside face of the rocks.


Loaches - The ones that are slender and slither like eels will never go into a tank that has carpet again. They tear everything up over time.


Fish looks - Certain fish look better in certain scapes. I don't like how my neon tetras look in this tank but the samurai gourami look stunning because they are simpler looking. The scape is pretty enough.


Aquasoil - Low GH turns the aquasoil water yellow, and trying to add more back is a losing battle especially with shrimp and TDS considerations. Aquasoil sucks up the GH constantly.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

somewhatshocked said:


> That view of the tank from above is outstanding!


Swear I was about to post the exact same thing! This is really coming along, great job!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Any updates?


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> Any updates?


I'm not happy with the plants atm. I used so many different mosses that it's messy and needs a trim/slight redo in some areas.

Also, it's been a pain in the ass to keep the baby tears growing well without making my fish gasp. This is the last time I'll be using baby tears in a tank that takes fish seriously. For instance, my co2 ran out for one day and the baby tears shrunk up evem more than they were. Monte carlo will be used in the future.

Finally, if I had to redo it I'd just push my rocks to the back. I tried getting some form of depth in the long tank but it's just not deep enough. Instead I have pockets of plants behind the rocks that didn't add any depth and let the fish hide from sight. The flow would be better this way too as some of the carpet plants grow at different rates depending on their position in the substrate.

On the plus side, algae has been almost unnoticeable with 5 hours of light and co2 dropping the ph from about 7.2 to 6.2. I add ferts about once or twice a week, no big deal. Plants (besides baby tears) are growing fine.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

There's a lot going on in the tank, so yeah timing of everything to get that sweet moment doesn't come easy. It sounds like you are analyzing it's shortcomings for scaping contest more than simply sharing it here on the forum. 

What hardscape heavy tanks, it's sometimes hard to keep plantings more minimal. The more plants you add the more the plants will change the look and you'll lose the hardscape that you originally liked the layout for. 

No algae is a big plus!


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

The addition of plants was a big mystery in my head the entire time. I definitely took this as a learning experience and tried a lot of different moss, carpet, midground and background plants.

From an experience perspective it's a major win. After I give it some loving I'll post new pics.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

Here is the tank today. It's home to some cross band chocolate gouramis that are coloring up blue and red on their fins (wow!).

Hit a major pitfall that I've since recovered from after my last post. Essentially I was either overdosing potassium sulfate or csm +b which caused stunting in all of my plants, and their roots became weak but didnt seem to detatch. The red minis (uh forgot their name) were hit hardest and had to be replaced.

However, plants are growing fine now and algae has been a non issue besides wiping the tank glass every two weeks or so!

If I redid this tank I'd accept how thin this tank is and shove all of the rocks to the back. The front right is just one big lava rock, and I'd add rocks to the left center background instead of leaving it open for plants. I've also learned that you 100% need clearance to clean the glass around the rocks.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

I feel you on the hardscape situation. I have the same tank and it's super hard to create depth. I think these 22 gallons are really best for iwagumi tanks with carpeting plants, or otherwise low/minimal hardscape. The Aquarium Design Group really has the dimesions figured out, I'm gonna copy one of their scapes next time I redo mine. My fave 22 gallon longs below:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Nozo5jigb/
https://www.instagram.com/p/B5rVsmfpG26/
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2SYZ6yjiLH/


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

gjcarew said:


> I feel you on the hardscape situation. I have the same tank and it's super hard to create depth. I think these 22 gallons are really best for iwagumi tanks with carpeting plants, or otherwise low/minimal hardscape. The Aquarium Design Group really has the dimesions figured out, I'm gonna copy one of their scapes next time I redo mine. My fave 22 gallon longs below:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Nozo5jigb/
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B5rVsmfpG26/
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B2SYZ6yjiLH/


Yes I agree, anything more focused on 2d and rules of thirds works really well as it's accentuated by the length of the tank.

If I was going to redo my tank I'd push the rocks on the left and right back just a little bit and fill them in ehind with rocks. I'd put buces and moss on the rocks there. Then I'd try to fill in that center left with rocks up to the top.

Essentially it would look like a lopsided, half-circle from above. The problem is finding rocks thin enough to do that in the center left back.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I really like these long narrow tanks. They give the appearance of being much larger. I'm tempted to upgrade my 12 long to the 22 since i could use my light, stand and all other equipment. My 12g is only 7.5" wide so the 22 would be lots of room for me.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Asteroid said:


> I really like these long narrow tanks. They give the appearance of being much larger. I'm tempted to upgrade my 12 long to the 22 since i could use my light, stand and all other equipment. My 12g is only 7.5" wide so the 22 would be lots of room for me.


I think you'd love it. I graduated from a 12 gallon long which has currently been relegated to a terrarium grow-out since I just enjoy the 22 more! It's just more fun to work on since I can actually fit my hands in the damn thing.

I have to say that your 3 ft scape has made me want to fill up the 12g again and go epiphytes only!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

gjcarew said:


> I think you'd love it. I graduated from a 12 gallon long which has currently been relegated to a terrarium grow-out since I just enjoy the 22 more! It's just more fun to work on since I can actually fit my hands in the damn thing.
> 
> I have to say that your 3 ft scape has made me want to fill up the 12g again and go epiphytes only!


Thanks! I didn't think I would enjoy an epiphyte only tank, but this tank is really so easy to keep looking pretty good for a long time. The only thing that really takes over is the Bolbitis. Once it gets going it really grows and it is only a 12g. I think the 22 is definitely in my future.


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