# 5g Walstad Method Tank - High Nitrites/Nitrates!?



## AnlgvsDgtl (Apr 28, 2018)

Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to planted tanks and tanks in general. I adopted a cute betta fish from my coworker who was moving out of state, she wanted to leave him in the office! He was in a plastic bowl with no heater, plants or filtration. I knew he would die there so the rest is history...
Anyway, in the past 6 months or so I've made a lot of mistakes, but I'm learning which tank methods I like and don't like. Long story short, my betta was getting sick and I was frantically researching a healthier and more efficient way to maintain his tank. I found the walstad method and thought that it was worth the learning curve.

So I've put my betta in a temporary tank and redid his tank earlier this month, on April 6. I used organic soil, used a blended substrate layer of small pebbles and seachem red clay. I originally planted the tank with hornwort, baby dwarf tears, cardinal plant, creeping charlie, ludwigia repens, and spiralis. I later added an amazon sword I already had. I had an led lamp which was contributing to some algae growth, so i swapped that out with a 6500k cfl. I used a sponge filter for about a week, then decided to take it out. A few days ago I got rid of the hornwort because it wasn't doing so good and added foxtail and brazillian pennywort. Since I have started the tank i've must have done 2 50% water changes and 2 smaller water changes, mostly for cleaning small amounts of algae and getting rid of excess detritus. The plants are growing well and sprouting roots, some have already rooted themselves.

My main problem are the nitrate and nitrite levels, which today measured out to be 1ppm nitrite and 20ppm nitrate, Ammonia was less than .25ppm. These levels are better than what I measured out last week and I preformed a 25% water change yesterday. Is this normal for 3 weeks? Also, Ive noticed this debris buildup? I usually try to brush it off the plants when I see it. I've tried using my gravel vac but it never gets all of it.

I want to put my betta in there so he can be happy and healthy, but I know the tank is not ready yet. And yes I know the tank is small, but i didn't know any better when I bought it and I am trying to work with it.

Any suggestions or recommendations?

Photo order as follows:

1 .Day 1
2. Day 2
3. Day 3
4. Day 9 (with amazon sword added)
5. Today
6. Brazilian hornwort (will it grow like this?)
7. Creeping charlie and ludwigia repens
8. Debris build up (which isn't as bad as it was earlier because I brushed some of it off)


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Is there no filter?? I understand the Walstad method is the "New thing" but fact is your aren't reproducing nature by sticking water in a 5 gallon bucket. It's silly. Flow and passing through various inorganic surfaces filters water in nature. Stagnant pools become resovoirs for disease and parasites. Put a little filter on there.
Second... yes... it can take 6 weeks for a tank to fully cycle... Maybe more then you have no filter media for bacteria to colonize. There is a reason Walstad hasn't taken the hobby by storm. It is flawed from an ecological / biological perspective. Alot of unsupported hypothesis. The smaller the tank, the faster the swing in parameters... which is why in nature bodies of water are massive.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> Is there no filter?? I understand the Walstad method is the "New thing" but fact is your aren't reproducing nature by sticking water in a 5 gallon bucket. It's silly. Flow and passing through various inorganic surfaces filters water in nature. Stagnant pools become resovoirs for disease and parasites. Put a little filter on there.
> Second... yes... it can take 6 weeks for a tank to fully cycle... Maybe more then you have no filter media for bacteria to colonize. There is a reason Walstad hasn't taken the hobby by storm. It is flawed from an ecological / biological perspective. Alot of unsupported hypothesis. The smaller the tank, the faster the swing in parameters... which is why in nature bodies of water are massive.


I beg to differ: there are plenty of "natural" tank examples on TPT, including filter-less ones.

A small dose of factual advise would have been a lot more helpful then a collection of ignorance and arrogance.


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## AnlgvsDgtl (Apr 28, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> Is there no filter?? I understand the Walstad method is the "New thing" but fact is your aren't reproducing nature by sticking water in a 5 gallon bucket. It's silly. Flow and passing through various inorganic surfaces filters water in nature. Stagnant pools become resovoirs for disease and parasites. Put a little filter on there.
> Second... yes... it can take 6 weeks for a tank to fully cycle... Maybe more then you have no filter media for bacteria to colonize. There is a reason Walstad hasn't taken the hobby by storm. It is flawed from an ecological / biological perspective. Alot of unsupported hypothesis. The smaller the tank, the faster the swing in parameters... which is why in nature bodies of water are massive.


Literally no help whatsoever. I guess I've posted in the wrong forum. You should read up on the Walstad method before you knock it. It is actually very interesting and works quite well, even in small tanks. My question is how can i reduce my nitrites/nitrates or possibly an explanation for why they are so high.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

The short of it is that your tank is still cycling. Your A, N, and N numbers look totally nomal to me and it is mostly a waiting game now. I would just let it be. You are getting very close to the end of the cycling.


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## AnlgvsDgtl (Apr 28, 2018)

OVT said:


> The short of it is that your tank is still cycling. Your A, N, and N numbers look totally nomal to me and it is mostly a waiting game now. I would just let it be. You are getting very close to the end of the cycling.


Great! thank you


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

AnlgvsDgtl said:


> Literally no help whatsoever. I guess I've posted in the wrong forum. You should read up on the Walstad method before you knock it. It is actually very interesting and works quite well, even in small tanks. My question is how can i reduce my nitrites/nitrates or possibly an explanation for why they are so high.


I do think he was trying to be helpful. Filters offer a lot of benefits for water quality, especially when you're trying to lower ammonia/nitrites. You can do without, but there are plenty of good reasons that most people put some sort of filter in every tank.

For what it's worth, lots of people on this forum have heard of the Walstad Method. When I saw the title of this thread I thought "Another small Walstad tank? Let's check out the algae farm." I'm not trying to be antagonistic - there are beautiful Walstad tanks out there, and right now your tank looks great. Just be aware that many people have ended up frustrated with this style of tank.

I wish you luck! Keep us posted. You have the makings of a beautiful betta sanctuary.


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## nbr1rodeoclown (Feb 6, 2015)

with dirted tanks, floating plants are your friend. get a hold of some salvinia or frogbit, and it will speed up the last bit of your cycle.

either way, this looks fine to me just give it a couple more weeks.


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## MultiTankGuy (Jan 8, 2018)

*Walstad Tank Method*

Hello TPT...


I found the Walstad method of keeping a tank to be flawed for a couple of reasons. One, the substrate loses its nutrients in a few months and you have to find other means of fertilizing the plants. Second, and more importantly, is water that's not changed routinely loses it's ability to accept and hold oxygen and water that sits in a cube like a tank changes chemically. The longer the water sits, the more the minerals in it change. If you understand how chemicals in the surrounding air affect standing water, you understand the importance of removing and replacing a lot of tank water and doing so regularly. I'm guessing Diane didn't do well in her high school chemistry classes.


M


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

MultiTankGuy said:


> Hello TPT...
> 
> 
> Second, and more importantly, is water that's not changed routinely loses it's ability to accept and hold oxygen and water that sits in a cube like a tank changes chemically. The longer the water sits, the more the minerals in it change. If you understand how chemicals in the surround air affect standing water, you understand the importance of removing and replacing a lot of tank water and doing so regularly
> ...


Could you please elaborate for my education,
Thanks!


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## MultiTankGuy (Jan 8, 2018)

OVT...

I'd be glad to. Tap water contains traces of iron, manganese, copper, zinc and some others. Fish and plants use these for good health, so if the tank water isn't changed often, whatever you have living in the tank becomes unhealthy. When these elements are exposed to oxygen and hydrogen, which you have plenty of in the surrounding air, they begin to change chemically. The process is called "oxidation". Nitrogen is another element that's found in most tap water sources. There's up to 10 parts per million (ppm) in tap water and 20 percent in the air. We know from keeping fish tanks, that nitrogen from the dissolving fish waste drives off oxygen (O2). There's more I could go into, but don't get me started. Anyway, with tank water not being changed regularly, like in the Walstad tank method, you're not keeping a tank with a stable and healthy water chemistry.

M


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

MultiTankGuy said:


> OVT...
> 
> I'd be glad to. Tap water contains traces of iron, manganese, copper, zinc and some others. Fish and plants use these for good health, so if the tank water isn't changed often, whatever you have living in the tank becomes unhealthy. When these elements are exposed to oxygen and hydrogen, which you have plenty of in the surrounding air, they begin to change chemically. The process is called "oxidation". Nitrogen is another element that's found in most tap water sources. There's up to 10 parts per million (ppm) in tap water and 20 percent in the air. We know from keeping fish tanks, that nitrogen from the dissolving fish waste drives off oxygen (O2). There's more I could go into, but don't get me started. Anyway, with tank water not being changed regularly, like in the Walstad tank method, you're not keeping a tank with a stable and healthy water chemistry.
> 
> M



Nitrogen itself doesn't deplete O2 levels, it's a process called eutrophication. Atmospheric nitrogen is closer to 80% than 20%. Still not sure what this has to do with actual O2 levels in our tanks.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

AnlgvsDgtl said:


> My main problem are the nitrate and nitrite levels, which today measured out to be 1ppm nitrite and 20ppm nitrate, Ammonia was less than .25ppm. These levels are better than what I measured out last week and I preformed a 25% water change yesterday. Is this normal for 3 weeks? Also, Ive noticed this debris buildup? I usually try to brush it off the plants when I see it. I've tried using my gravel vac but it never gets all of it.
> 
> Any suggestions or recommendations?


It takes a little bit longer for the nitrite bacteria to develop, but you are on the right track. The plant selection is good and you seem to be doing all the good things to improve your odds of success. I would encourage you do do more frequent 25% or 50% water changes in the beginning as the soil releases a lot of "stuff" at first. A typical soiled :icon_wink tank gets more stable after 6 months.

In her original version Walstad says that there needs to be some circulation, granted in such small tanks you are less likely to get stratification. Later on, she starts recommending a filter. Do not know if it is in the revised edition of the book, but it is in this interview: 






If you do not want to get a filter, get a small powerhead just to move the water around. This will help your plants get a more uniform access to nutrients and push the oxygenated water towards the substrate where the bacteria can do their job. 

You can ignore all that is below, got bored at some point during the day.



OVT said:


> Could you please elaborate for my education,
> Thanks!





MultiTankGuy said:


> One, the substrate loses its nutrients in a few months and you have to find other means of fertilizing the plants.


Have you read the book ? Walstad says that additional nutrients will come form fish food and fish waste. Exactly how did your Walstad aquarium fail, do you have any documentation of such a tank for us to see ? Not saying Walstad aquarium are the best setup, but if you work within the severe limitation you can have a decent aquarium.




MultiTankGuy said:


> Second, and more importantly, is water that's not changed routinely loses it's ability to accept and hold oxygen and water that sits in a cube like a tank changes chemically. The longer the water sits, the more the minerals in it change. If you understand how chemicals in the surrounding air affect standing water





OVT said:


> Could you please elaborate for my education,
> Thanks!


 @OVT, I half expected the kind of dream-pipe scientific explanation that is by the barrel in the nutrient threads, such as: 


MultiTankGuy said:


> not changed routinely loses it's ability to accept and hold oxygen


Over time the dipole moment of water is lost. The result of water depolarizing is that it is no longer able to induce a full dipole force and thus cannot hold any more oxygen. The water matrix just changes over time and it becomes so dense that oxygen just cannot be accepted or held tight in the arms of water.>


MultiTankGuy said:


> water that sits in a cube like a tank changes chemically


It is a know fact used by many plant growers that H2O molecules in pyramids maintain their freshness and vital forces. The cube however is the antithesis of the pyramid, as such it induces deterioration and makes H2O molecules change their chemistry, they become colorful little pink elephants which dance around in circles.



MultiTankGuy said:


> OVT...
> 
> I'd be glad to. Tap water contains traces of iron, manganese, copper, zinc and some others. Fish and plants use these for good health, so if the tank water isn't changed often, whatever you have living in the tank becomes unhealthy. When these elements are exposed to oxygen and hydrogen, which you have plenty of in the surrounding air, they begin to change chemically. The process is called "oxidation". Nitrogen is another element that's found in most tap water sources. There's up to 10 parts per million (ppm) in tap water and 20 percent in the air. We know from keeping fish tanks, that nitrogen from the dissolving fish waste drives off oxygen (O2). There's more I could go into, but don't get me started. Anyway, with tank water not being changed regularly, like in the Walstad tank method, you're not keeping a tank with a stable and healthy water chemistry.
> 
> M


So, if some members get confused, let me be clear. Water is H2O, liquid water will maintain its O2 proprieties no matter how long you keep it in a glass box. How much O2 is dissolved in water when at equilibrium depends mainly on temperature, atmospheric pressure, atmospheric O2 concentration and dissolved solids. O2 does not dissolve in water by covalent bonding or ionic reaction, as implied above. The "oxidation" of metal ions does not provide any usable oxygen for fish or plants. It actually makes both the metals and the oxygen as useful to them as eating the plastic cola bottle is for you. In air you do not find N, you find N2 which is know as nitrogen gas. An atmosphere made from N2 is also known as an inert atmosphere, care to guess why ? N2 is non utilizable by plants. Some very specialized bacteria (including some cyanobacteria) are able to capture atmospheric N2 and use it /make it available to plants. The amounts of such bacteria present in healthy aquariums are insignificant. As for the nitrogen driving O2 off...










Speaking of which, looks like somebody should have paid more attention in the chemistry classes


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

I listened to those interviews, and she does mention changing some water occasionally as well. While I have not read the book cover to cover, I dont think the intent is to _never_ change water. You would have to top off evaporation at the very least.


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

I am a new member here and trying to do due diligence by studying the different disciplines of aquarium setups. Currently reading Walstad's book, latest copyright. She does indeed recommend a water change routine, though not as regular as maybe some would prefer. Her primary reason being tap water, in most cases, can be a source of nutrients for the planted tank. She also recommends some form of water circulation for a more balanced nutrient distribution. She warns the reader right up front that a dirted tank will soon "run out of gas" so there should be no surprise there. Her method to overcome this is to slightly overfeed the fish as the plants will use the excess. There is a lot more she has to say about her methods that I am completely unqualified to comment on. The biggest take away I have from her book right now is that she believes that if you keep your plants healthy, your fish will be healthy... in other words, she says to trust your plants.

_The fine print:_ I am not advocating any method over another. I have successfully kept fish only tanks in the past and after a long hiatus, am getting back into aquarium keeping. I want to try a low tech planted tank, so I am studying the different methods for now. I am finding Walstad's book interesting and worthy of a close look.


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