# New quad t5 ho!



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Ordered a quad t5 ho light off Amazon.
Went with hydroplanet because I liked the smooth gloss white casing. It also is a bit deeper than some of the others. 
The deeper reflectors cut down on how much bulb you see.

It came with some nice rope hanging things that are easy to adjust and seem plenty strong.

The color on the included 4 6500k bulbs seems good. 
Immediately could tell my reds pop much much more!
Can't imagine what they'll look like with a geiseman super Flora or something.

So. What bulb recommendations do you guys have?
Don't wanna mess up the CRI too much where things look fake or what have you.

Here's an imgur gallery of photos.
I'm on mobile so it's a lot of work to post them all.
New light https://imgur.com/gallery/pRvbv

The thing was like 79 bucks so great deal.
Plants immediately started pearling like crazy.

BBA I'm sure will go nuts too.. let the struggle begin.

You can see how there's no reflectors on the sides (duh) so its a lot of glare, but from 3/4 on there's barely any glare or light bleed from the front.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Can you shut off 2 bulbs?

Can't give you real world choices.. but this looks fun:
https://www.fullspectrumsolutions.c...finition-fluorescent-tube?variant=45464551694

5900K a bit lower than usual but not as much of an issue like w/ LED's..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Can you shut off 2 bulbs?
> 
> Can't give you real world choices.. but this looks fun:
> https://www.fullspectrumsolutions.c...finition-fluorescent-tube?variant=45464551694
> ...


Yes it has two switches on it to turn 2 bulbs off, only one power cable though so wouldn't be able to control separately very easy. 

Those do look fun, nice and cheap too.
I'll probably order one bulb at a time and see if I want it redder, bluer, etc.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Throw one Powerveg 633 in there, or the 660. Low par and high pur, and extremely red.

To the eyes I think the 633 looks better than the 660. The 660 is much "cooler" looking

Then be prepared to add something like an ATI purple or even a 420 actinic to balance out the red. If youve seen @Greggz Seneye tests, that ATI is a really nice plant bulb. 

A 10000K or 12000K...might balance it out, just depends on what you think looks good.

The other two can be a 6500K and red/pink flora type.

If you want to go warmer try a 3000K in place of the flora bulb. Plants love 3000K but be warned they are typically BEASTS when it comes to par

Whatever route you go you'll need at least one 6500K to maintain nice greens 

Keeping it simple do a 1:1 6500K and flora types. Decent color and good for plants. PAR will remain pretty high though.

Be better to get down in the 90s compared to the 110s or 120s, which I suspect is where you're at now


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

burr740 said:


> Throw one Powerveg 633 in there, or the 660. Low par and high pur, and extremely red.
> 
> To the eyes I think the 633 looks better than the 660. The 660 is much "cooler" looking
> 
> ...


Thanks for the recommendations! 


Powerveg 633 
Wow! Just looked at the spectral graph, what a peaky light! Has that little burst of UV too.. 

Hmm tons of good info, scared to buy bulbs though haha, it's like a full commitment.
The ATI purple seems really good too

It's easy to adjust light height, but I do have to get on a ladder lol. 
Can only go about 3 more inches higher before there will be light bleed when viewing from the couch.

Probably gonna run one BlueMax as my full spectrum, has a CRI of 96 so that should get me some good greens.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Chlorophile said:


> Probably gonna run one BlueMax as my full spectrum, has a CRI of 96 so that should get me some good greens.


Yeah those look nice. I knew @jeffkrol had to be good for something besides preaching the gospel of LED  

I just ordered a Bluemax 5900K and one of the Maximum 5000K. Back in my CFL days 5000K was my favorite spectrum, we'll see how these look

Bulbs were $9.00 each, shipping was......$21.99!! 

So $20 each shipped, thats not too bad really


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

now, now, just because I like computers over an abacus is no reason to insult me..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Lol I was just talking about how I don't know how to use an abacus to someone the other day, how odd!

But yeah the pricing seems well worth trying! Let me know what you think when you get yours @burr740


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> now, now, just because I like computers over an abacus is no reason to insult me..


You guys crack me up! Figured Burr740 would have alot of good suggestions on bulb choice. I suspect that knowledge comes with a few years of experience is finding exactly what works.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> ATI purple or even a 420 actinic to balance out the red.
> Powerveg 633 in there, or the 660
> A 10000K or 12000K...might balance it out,
> If you want to go warmer try a 3000K
> you'll need at least one 6500K





> Be better to get down in the 90s compared to the 110s or 120s


and people think LED's are confusing.. 

...as I take my Android and dial in each and every above combination.. well no UV... 

Sorry couldn't resist..it's an illness...


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Is there a spectrum chart for that bluemax bulb?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> > ATI purple or even a 420 actinic to balance out the red.
> > Powerveg 633 in there, or the 660
> > A 10000K or 12000K...might balance it out,
> > If you want to go warmer try a 3000K
> ...


There is some UV in some of those is there not?
At any rate, how do you feel about UV?
Was considering adding something like the eyehortilux FS+UV full spectrum UV light..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

well I was referring to no UV in LED fixtures/diodes "normally"...
Point was taking a R/G/B/WW/CW LED array and dialing in all sorts of "colors" and then dimming/brightening w/in reason of course...

almost all "tubes" ar just various combinations of R/G/B phoshpors...

no fan of UV..but on a more personal choice.. figure almost anything UV related is accomplished in the vis. spectrum.. (400-700)
and AFAICT many UV effects are a coupling of UV-a and B..and mostly for defense..

Trying to get a copy of this paper. 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0098847215001185


























Related:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2017.00278/full


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> well I was referring to no UV in LED fixtures/diodes "normally"...
> Point was taking a R/G/B/WW/CW LED array and dialing in all sorts of "colors" and then dimming/brightening w/in reason of course...
> 
> almost all "tubes" ar just various combinations of R/G/B phoshpors...
> ...


I had always thought anthocyanins are visible for two reasons.
A. GROWTH: the plant grows quicker than it can produce chlorophyll to color the new leaves(i.e. inverse of fall color)
B. UV radiation: extra of the pigment is a UV protectant.

So my assumption was that a UV+fs bulb could do things for color.
Some of the bulbs Burr posted have spikes in the UV range too


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Forgot 
C: genetically pre-disposed...... 

I'll still hold by this:


> The results suggest exposure to ultraviolet-A (but not ultraviolet-B) directly affects photosynthesis, observed as a loss of photosystem II electron transport efficiency and increased radical formation. This research indicates that the accumulated beta-carotene in D. bardawil prevents UV-related photosynthetic damage through blue-light/ultraviolet-A absorption (supported by trends observed for antioxidant enzyme responses).


Think my point would be "violet" or deep blue would be effective w/out the side effects..
Like you can get red plants through Nitrogen starvation (can't manuf. chlorophyll) but... ????

as I said a bit of a personal thing..I'm sure UV will add color...

Oh and *A* is more like.. Collecting too much energy, need to shunt it off b4 damage occurs (usually from heat)

too much light zero UV.. Not a Nitrogen problem..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Forgot
> C: genetically pre-disposed...... <a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
> 
> I'll still hold by this:
> ...


Haha agreed on all points
Well the eye hortilux fsuv bulb is 30 bucks which is kinda crazy for me right now.. 79 dollar fixture lol
They claim it does a lot for their industry though..

Gonna go with one of those BlueMax first cause it's cheap and then try a powerveg 633 or a 3k(k) spectralux.
Then if I'm very red I'll decide what to do with the last two slots...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Err ,yea.. not something I'd want to look at.. 

https://youtu.be/3VN87crY67g
https://youtu.be/Ts5zHlXRsOU


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Err ,yea.. not something I'd want to look at.. <a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
> 
> https://youtu.be/3VN87crY67g
> https://youtu.be/Ts5zHlXRsOU


The spectrum doesn't look too bad? Probably just on the cool side?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Because I am NOT an expert on these things, it interests me how this bulb in particular can generate "spikes" in certain ranges such as 435nm. Almost as if there is a planned "flaw" in the coating at exactly that wave length. The curve in the 300 to 360 seems more logical to me - a focused range.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Immortal1 said:


> Because I am NOT an expert on these things, it interests me how this bulb in particular can generate "spikes" in certain ranges such as 435nm. Almost as if there is a planned "flaw" in the coating at exactly that wave length. The curve in the 300 to 360 seems more logical to me - a focused range.


It is quite interesting, presumably very specific phosphors? Idk how it works.
The geiseman super Flora does the same thing


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Immortal1 said:


> Because I am NOT an expert on these things, it interests me how this bulb in particular can generate "spikes" in certain ranges such as 435nm. Almost as if there is a planned "flaw" in the coating at exactly that wave length. The curve in the 300 to 360 seems more logical to me - a focused range.


The spikes ar the naturally occuring Mercury lines.. All the phosphors are the smoother areas..










https://publiclab.org/notes/cfastie/10-06-2015/twin-peaks-tb-or-hg



> The prominent mercury lines are at 435.835 nm (blue), 546.074 nm (green), and a pair at 576.959 nm and 579.065 nm (yellow-orange). There are two other blue lines at 404.656 nm and 407.781 nm and a weak line at 491.604 nm.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Well, that is interesting - did not know thats how it works.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Chlorophile said:


> The spectrum doesn't look too bad? Probably just on the cool side?


Was referring to the eye damaging UV..


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Hmmm, so I have a 36" UV-B bulb in each of the 2 bearded dragon enclosures....
Guess maybe I should not stare longingly into the enclosures???

Honestly did not know.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> It is quite interesting, presumably very specific phosphors? Idk how it works.
> The geiseman super Flora does the same thing


Keep in mind that Geisemann Super Flora has very high PAR. Strongest PAR I tested a short time ago.

And looking forward to seeing where this goes from here.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Zoo-med Flora and TruLumen Floras are good cheap bulbs that wont break the PAR budget.

Ive never been able to "turn plants red" by starving them for nitrogen. They always just turn pale and/or stunt for me. Apparently it works for some folks though.

Healthy plants have the best color. Focus on that. Then you need a good light to reflect that color back to the eyes.

Never tried strong UVs, I'll leave that to the folks growing "tomatoes"

As for damaging the eyes, I would think the main thing is not to stare directly at the bulbs.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Yeah I'm not sure the UV is even close to what you'd get just by being outside.
Lets just say it's not gonna give you a tan. 

If the UV+FS was cheaper I'd try it for sure. 

the bottom of the light is 5 inches above the water, and the reflectors are 2 inches deep so the bulbs are closer to 6.5 inches from the water. 
I can raise or lower it as well, but probably wouldn't go more than 2 inches higher than it is now for aesthetics. 

*Some observations from switching lights. *
My peak pH drop went down by .3 with these lights. 
Kinda an interesting metric but not all that accurate I'm sure. 
The fish were breathing slower towards the end of the day, and the oto's were actually the most active I've seen them. 

Pearling is.. its absolutely insane lol. Wallichi has started pearling which I hadn't seen before. Pantanal still doesn't for me though. 
Blyxa is oozing bubbles everywhere lol. 

I definitely want to try the SuperFlora.. like it's calling my name lol. 
I'm thinking SuperFlora, Bluemax, Superveg 633, and one of these stock 6500K bulbs. 
I'm afraid of what the superveg will do to the color though more than anything so that one might be delayed. 

Based on observations regarding the pH drop today and the fish breathing(Probably oodles more oxygen than usual from all the pearling?) I'd be willing to try disgusting levels of par. 

Still on 3x a week Trace dosing so I'm trying to observe and look for signs that I may need to increase. 
But I wondered if the negatives I saw weren't from traces but rather from traces interacting with my macro dosing by doing it same day.. Maybe space them out morning and night would help. 


Rearranged my L. SP Red and moved ammania gracillis to the mid-front as a focal plant. 
Still gotta work on my foreground big time though!
Gonna add some of my emmersed Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis and see if it does well. 
For some reason Hydrocotyle Japan does NOT grow in this tank at these parameters but it was a WEED when I was on tap water. 

















































edit: I have hesitations about going with bulbs that are too colorful or not balanced.. 
I HATE when I see coral tanks that exploit actinic so much and it looks like a blacklight, hurts my eyes and reminds me of rainbow puke gravel. 
So I'd like to really keep it natural, but also love the way it looks when done right. So I'm tornnnn


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

I find that if you are going to use a multitude of colored bulbs it's best to go with a really crisp white to balance it all out. 6500K is just not white enough. 12K White is very white without getting into blue and you can throw insane amounts of red and actinic before it starts to drown it out. The 12K white will look stale if used by itself but when you throw in some reds and actinics it can look quite awesome.

This is blyxa and erio compressum on a 60p with quad t5 hyodrofarm fixture.

12K white
UVL red sun
Wave point ultra cola
wave point actinic

Tons of red for a single white bulb to be able to handle but still doesn't get washed out plus the added benefit of red tips on blyxa and the erio which is not that common. This was done without nutrient starvation.









Side benefit was erio parkeri flowering like a beast. I'd have to pull out that many flowering stalks every couple of weeks. Was awesome because then the parkeri would split so needless to say it spread insanely fast.









And here you can see the light over the small tank. The light covered the entire thing and I never had algae issues which brings me to my belief that you can drop tons of T5 bulbs on a tank and not get algae as long as you balance the bulbs.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

@gus6464 what brand of 12000K do you use?

On a different note - CRI is not really the best metric for whether a light is gonna make our plants look good

https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/is-color-quality-scale-better-than-cri


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

gus6464 said:


> I find that if you are going to use a multitude of colored bulbs it's best to go with a really crisp white to balance it all out. 6500K is just not white enough. 12K White is very white without getting into blue and you can throw insane amounts of red and actinic before it starts to drown it out. The 12K white will look stale if used by itself but when you throw in some reds and actinics it can look quite awesome.
> 
> This is blyxa and erio compressum on a 60p with quad t5 hyodrofarm fixture.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that info and the pics.

What I'm not fond of, and it may be the camera cause I don't notice it as much in the last picture, is when the glass or substrate starts to look colored too much.
I'm not sure how a 12k can be much brighter white than a lower Kelvin though? I would think 12k would be very blue?

The flowering thing seems really nice though, so I would like to throw some red on there for sure... So many choices and so much to think about!


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

burr740 said:


> @gus6464 what brand of 12000K do you use?
> 
> On a different note - CRI is not really the best metric for whether a light is gonna make our plants look good
> 
> https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/is-color-quality-scale-better-than-cri


The whitest 12000K i have found is the wave point sun wave. I have put it side by side to an ati coral plus and the ati has a bluer tinge to it.


Chlorophile said:


> Thanks for that info and the pics.
> 
> What I'm not fond of, and it may be the camera cause I don't notice it as much in the last picture, is when the glass or substrate starts to look colored too much.
> I'm not sure how a 12k can be much brighter white than a lower Kelvin though? I would think 12k would be very blue?
> ...


I find 6500K bulbs to have a yellow tinge to them. The substrate looks more colored in the side pic because the red bulb was directly under it. I put my white bulb in the front of the fixture so that when I am looking at the tank head on I don't see the red. That's why the last picture doesn't look red. If you take a picture from the side of the tank you can definitely notice the different colors more.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Good point about the color quality.
I definitely notice phones with an AMOLED Display are much more vibrant and saturated compared to LCD and it's a similar debate.
The LCD is accurate but not as nice to look at.

I'm so about don't vibrancy, just scared to go too far.
Gonna check various LFS stores Tomorrow for good deals, maybe a Hagen or something..


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

gus6464 said:


> And here you can see the light over the small tank. The light covered the entire thing and I never had algae issues which brings me to my belief that you can drop tons of T5 bulbs on a tank and not get algae as long as you balance the bulbs.


Gus nice looking tank and nice post.

But I've got say, dropping tons of T5 on a tank, without doing a lot of other things right, could definitely result in a fast growing algae farm, regardless of balance of bulb color. In my experience, the color of the bulbs is about the least important thing to avoid algae. 

I do believe it can affect growth, but mostly it changes how things appear to the naked eye (and camera!!)


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Greggz said:


> Gus nice looking tank and nice post.
> 
> But I've got say, dropping tons of T5 on a tank, without doing a lot of other things right, could definitely result in a fast growing algae farm, regardless of balance of bulb color. In my experience, the color of the bulbs is about the least important thing to avoid algae.
> 
> I do believe it can affect growth, but mostly it changes how things appear to the naked eye (and camera!!)


It's obviously a balance of a multitude of factors and I was just trying to convey that light is not the only cause of algae. The reason I say that is because on most "why do I have algae" threads everyone always goes to blame the lights immediately. Or you have the that's too many bulbs on that tank blanket response when that might not be the case at all. I mean on the old way of thinking that tiny 60P should be an algae farm based on the amount of T5HO I have over it.

T5 let's you play with a ton of light combos without worrying about color banding and visual aesthetic. If you wanted to push insane amounts of red with LED light you are going to have a hard time keeping color banding in check.

Bump:


jeffkrol said:


> well I was referring to no UV in LED fixtures/diodes "normally"...
> Point was taking a R/G/B/WW/CW LED array and dialing in all sorts of "colors" and then dimming/brightening w/in reason of course...
> 
> almost all "tubes" ar just various combinations of R/G/B phoshpors...
> ...


That article was a good read and the whole journal as a whole has some good stuff.

Plant-responses-to-red-and-far-red-lights
Can-a-high-red--Far-red-ratio-replace-temperature (basically using far red as a heater of sorts)


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

since i've never obtained a "hard copy".. care to at least interpret the different lines on the charts?
like black/orange/blue "dead ends"..
why black not orange ect..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Raised the light up 7 clicks, probably about 2-3 inches..
Why?
BBA on my substrate. Horrifying thing to start seeing and it starts to spiral out of control fast.
I'm only 4 days from my last water change but I'm thinking about doing another and doing a massive trim also...
Wanna nip this in the bud asap


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

If possible vac any substrate you can get to.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> If possible vac any substrate you can get to.


Oh boy did I ever!

Pulled out every plant except the Blyxa
Vacuumed as much as I could, it is AQUASOIL after all so it's very dusty...
My bathtub is BLACK where the python drains lmao. 
Threw away 2 long baking trays full of Ludwigia, Bacopa, Clinopodium.. Those plants are just beastly aggressive lol. 
Could have probably sold some but there was BBA on some leaves and I'd rather not be responsible at this point. 


























Water is still cloudy, may need to clean the filter tomorrow lol. 

Also had to throw away my Hydrocotyle Japan, hopefully I can replace it with something soon. For now I moved the AR mini and variegated over to that side. 
I'm also now just keeping one Limno Rugosa as a sort of center piece as A. I find it incredibly hard to replant without it floating away
and B. I don't have much room in the tank. 

My mystery Ludwigia is also starting to turn peachy pink, still don't know what it is and even debating if its Hygro Polysperma as it branches SOOO aggressively now under this lighting, even more so than the L. Red. 
It also.. magically had ZERO BBA on it, and ZERO leaf loss lower down... 
either its because its right next to the filter inflow and it gets good laminar flow over all the leaves.. or its magic.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Cant beleive you tossed Clinopodium. There probably arent ten people in the US who have that plant.

Oh well, congratulations on making it that much rarer.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

burr740 said:


> Cant beleive you tossed Clinopodium. There probably arent ten people in the US who have that plant.
> 
> Oh well, congratulations on making it that much rarer. <a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>


Seriously? Lol I had like 20 stems I got rid off.. it sprouts up from the roots for me.
It had BBA on lower growth cause I'm a bad plant keeper.
It's under some lasagna in the trash now, still alive I bet....


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Ok you made me feel bad, just got some out of thetrash that wasn't lasagnafied.
Ten stems..


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Haha, that's the spirit! Probably be OK as long as they're still moist. Cut the nicest tops off and use those.

In the tank, make a tight cluster and put them in front of something red


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Not to be argumentative but why is it considered so rare..?



> Clinopodium brownei (= Micromeria brownei, Satureja brownei, "Creeping Mint Charlie"), family Lamiaceae, native to the southern / southeastern U.S., Mexico and Central America.
> Pics of my plant:


https://www.thatpetplace.com/Clinopodium-brownei-mint-charlie-244773


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Not to be argumentative but why is it considered so rare..?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thatpetplace.com/Clinopodium-brownei-mint-charlie-244773


Well 10 people may have been a slight exaggeration. Its not widespread in the hobby for some reason. This was brought back from a Singapore nursery that supplies US wholesalers. Im sure some box stores and dealers will be stocking it soon.

https://www.flowgrow.de/db/aquaticplants/clinopodium-cf-brownei-lindernia-anagallis


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

burr740 said:


> Haha, that's the spirit! Probably be OK as long as they're still moist. Cut the nicest tops off and use those.
> 
> In the tank, make a tight cluster and put them in front of something red


For now I have it in front of bacopa again as I'm out of red plants lol.
I'm trying to use it as a sloping kinda hedge maybe 3 stems thick.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Wow.. co2 was off all day, guess my timer lost memory from being unplugged so long yesterday.
Came home and saw zero pearling and immediately knew.
Oh and my freaking ro water was on all day and my office is squishy with water.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Ok, so what your saying is today must have been a Monday!
Chuckle aside, sorry to hear. Hoping "a" day without co2 won't cause too many issues. The squishy office flooring - ok that sounds like a lot more work. At least it's "pure" water ;-)


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Immortal1 said:


> Ok, so what your saying is today must have been a Monday!
> Chuckle aside, sorry to hear. Hoping "a" day without co2 won't cause too many issues. The squishy office flooring - ok that sounds like a lot more work. At least it's "pure" water ;-)


Thank you, lol. 
Yes definitely feels like a monday. 
Good thing god invented Scotch. 
Luckily I have the skills to replace a floor no problem. 
Moreso worried about BBA from a day with zero co2 and 120 par.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> Wow.. co2 was off all day, guess my timer lost memory from being unplugged so long yesterday.
> Came home and saw zero pearling and immediately knew.
> Oh and my freaking ro water was on all day and my office is squishy with water.


One day CO2 not bad, many days look out.

And a float valve is your friend.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Greggz said:


> One day CO2 not bad, many days look out.
> 
> And a float valve is your friend.


how does that work? 
Can it shut off the entire ro system?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> how does that work?
> Can it shut off the entire ro system?


Yes. Precisely. 

Are you making RO to go directly into tank?

Or filling a reservoir?


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/auto-shut-off-kit-for-reverse-osmosis-systems.html


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Greggz said:


> Yes. Precisely.
> 
> Are you making RO to go directly into tank?
> 
> Or filling a reservoir?


reservoir


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

My guess would be you could set up a mechanical float system that would shut off water flow (think inside of your toilet) or an electrical float system that would turn off power to your RO system


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Immortal1 said:


> My guess would be you could set up a mechanical float system that would shut off water flow (think inside of your toilet) or an electrical float system that would turn off power to your RO system


Exactly what Immortal1 said.

Just like with a drinking water RO system. When the faucet it off, RO not producing anything. Run the faucet, RO kicks on until reservoir filled. In that case the reservoir is the small holding tank. 

So just think of the float valve like the faucet. Valve open, RO on, valve closed RO off.

And you can use the system for drinking water as well. That's what I do. Then you do need to be aware that when the system starts filling the reservoir, the drinking water holding tank empties first, so you loose pressure at the faucet. 

I use an electronic solenoid on a timer so that my large storage tanks only fill up over night. That way pressure at sink in kitchen is always good during the day.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Greggz said:


> Immortal1 said:
> 
> 
> > My guess would be you could set up a mechanical float system that would shut off water flow (think inside of your toilet) or an electrical float system that would turn off power to your RO system
> ...


We have a separate unit under the sink and never use it lol.
My ro for the fish is in my laundry room and it's split off the water for the washing machine.
Nothing electronic involved just turn a knob to let water in and it starts going.

Are you saying if I close off the output it will stop the waste water from coming out too?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> Are you saying if I close off the output it will stop the waste water from coming out too?


Yes, just like at your sink. You are not using the system, it's not making any RO, and no wastewater being produced. 

Turn the faucet on (opening the float valve), and unit begins to produce RO, creating wastewater. Turn faucet off, unit keeps going until the storage tank under sink is filled (closing float valve), then it's off again until the next time you run the faucet.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Interesting! 
Okay I might have to do that lol.
Right now I'm just filling a large trashcan with water but maybe I can get a better reservoir too


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

I use pressure switch along with barrel tender for my rodi as i use a booster pump and auto flush unit.

The barrel tender has a high and a low sensor. The float valve is there as a backup in case barrel tender fails. When barrel tender senses water in bucket is low it turns on that solenoid. The drop in pressure triggers on the pressure switch on my ro unit which turns on my booster pump and auto flush. System purges all water for 30s through the system before the flow restrictor kicks in to make water through ro. My inlet line is always on.

The barrel tender allows me to make water only when I go through 10 gallons so my booster pump is not going on and off constantly but once a week.

Then my auto top off pulls water from those buckets. Pump for that is a litermeter 3.









The blue big container is auto water change holding tank. I have a dual head stenner pump pulling the same amount of water out of the sump as it's pushing in from the big blue reservoir.


Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> Interesting!
> Okay I might have to do that lol.
> Right now I'm just filling a large trashcan with water but maybe I can get a better reservoir too


Trash can should be just fine. You'll just drill appropriate sized hole for the float valve. 
Here's the one I bought.......

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030065YW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And there are a lot of different storage tanks out there. I use the following food grade barrels, but I am storing over 100 gallons.


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

Chlorophile said:


> Wow.. co2 was off all day, guess my timer lost memory from being unplugged so long yesterday.
> Came home and saw zero pearling and immediately knew.
> Oh and my freaking ro water was on all day and my office is squishy with water.


Been there done that...my boss(dad) has been VERY accommodating to my tank addiction. I've got a 55gallon barrel, RODI, air pumps and heaters setup in the utility room at my office. A few weeks ago, I didn't put my 5 gallon bucket into the mop sink when I started the siphon into it from the 55gallon barrel. 5 minutes later, I realize I had forgotten about it and went running into a nice and sloshy utility room. I could see my dad questioning his decision to allow this at that point hahaha. 

As far as leaving the RODI on, I've set my barrel up on the drain in case I make that mistake...which I have...repeatedly. Lol.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Got a powerveg 633 from the hydroponics store, it's pretty!
I'm wondering if I should return my coralife 10k bulb and try a powerveg 460. It's like a cyan color, maybe with the greens and yellows from full spectrum I'll get more white?
Very tempted to try it..


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> Got a powerveg 633 from the hydroponics store, it's pretty!
> I'm wondering if I should return my coralife 10k bulb and try a powerveg 460. It's like a cyan color, maybe with the greens and yellows from full spectrum I'll get more white?
> Very tempted to try it..


Oh my another one going down the rabbit hole! I love it.

The Powerveg 660 is VERY red. IMO, I wouldn't pare it with the 633, as I think no matter what you matched them up with, it would probably be too red.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Greggz said:


> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> > Got a powerveg 633 from the hydroponics store, it's pretty!
> ...


Oh not the 660, I'd like to try the 460!
It's cyan
I think they'd balance well
I'm quite red already with this bulb.
I also looked at ATI coral plus and purple.
Wish it was easier to test them out without returns and wait times.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

@Greggz
One thing that's really bugging me after reading your testing with the seneye.
It's making me wonder.. if the bulb has a fixed wattage, and the multi phosphor bulbs like geiseman or ATI purple have the best color and a single phosphor kind of bulb like the 660 has the least.
Its like you can only really push the one color band so hard.
So if I put two bulbs in, one at 633 and one at 460
Would I not be better off with just one super Flora or super purple? Lol.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Coralife's are overpriced junk. Those 10000Ks are way too green and dim as hell. All their bulbs Ive tried are are dim. They dont hold up well either. In 6 months expect 30% less par and a whole different spectrum. Return it while you can is my advice!

Swap it for an ATI purp or maybe that 460

Got those Bluemax yesterday. First impression they seem pretty solid, puts out "clean" looking light if that makes any sense. Got one 5900K and one 5000K. 

Here's how each one looks with a Truelumen flora on the 50 gal. Pics are sorta crappy, just took one shot and done, and it's the middle of the night in two so the plants are closed up, just a reference for the lights

Before with a 6500K + tlf










5000K + tlf










5900K +tlf


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

burr740 said:


> Coralife's are overpriced junk. Those 10000Ks are way too green and dim as hell. All their bulbs Ive tried are are dim. They dont hold up well either. In 6 months expect 30% less par and a whole different spectrum. Return it while you can is my advice!
> 
> Swap it for an ATI purp or maybe that 460
> 
> ...


Sounds like a plan!
Gonna go get that 460 and see how they blend.
If it looks less red that'll be great lol. 
I'm just not sure what color those will combine to make... Purple? Lol
The ATI super purple I'd have to order unfortunately..
Here's hoping!

That BlueMax does look good..
It's subtle but seems like a solid pick.. 
I feel like two of those instead of my 6500k would really force the color back to a more neutral area after I've added these two wacky bulbs..

They also had agromax purePar purple bulbs.. sounds scary though, like.. I'm already scared of par right now haha.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Sooooo... guess I'm not "just" for LED's...(taking credit for digging these up).. 

Personal opinion and since based on photos hard to determine anything really..

5900k looks "cooler" but w/ better yellow/green-yellow separation than the 6500k
5000k def warmer bit a bit better green separation than 6500k as well..

none are "bad" but your comment of "clean" is what I think of as the benefit of high CRI.. 
It is all a game though since it all depends on our own "color separation" and physiological "expectations" of "correct" color..

Can't say much about the reds w/ the flora in there....

You are the ultimate judge though...


btw tlf clearance:
https://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13823


Was trying to find a spectrum for the TLF.. no luck
Even went to Current-USA (go figure go to a supplier for details)
ZERO anything tube wise..
https://current-usa.com/


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Yeah the 5k looks the best to me.
@burr740 do you think a 460 or 420 is better? Regarding the powerveg line..I know you'd just be guessing. The 460 has a little yellow peak which I wonder if will make it more neutral looking.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Reds look crisper on the 5900K. Washed out on the others. Might just be camera though.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Hmm.. I got the 460.
Holy moly it's blue blue blue..
Kinda ugly.
With this I can understand not wanting ANY lightspill out into the room..

Powerveg https://imgur.com/gallery/H8Bnn


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> @Greggz
> One thing that's really bugging me after reading your testing with the seneye.
> It's making me wonder.. if the bulb has a fixed wattage, and the multi phosphor bulbs like geiseman or ATI purple have the best color and a single phosphor kind of bulb like the 660 has the least.
> Its like you can only really push the one color band so hard.
> ...


I'm guessing you meant the Geisemann and ATI have more PAR compared to the Powerveg.

And that does bring up a good point. If I take out my Powerveg 660 and put in the Plantmax 3000, I actually like the color a bit better, but then my PAR is just too high. I'm trying to stay about 110 PAR or less at substrate. 

So yeah, you have to balance color and PAR. As you saw, some bulbs are much stronger than others.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Found a local shop with the PowerVegs. Going to try their FS + UV and 633. This is what I'm thinking now for 8 bulb combo on my ATI.

Wave Point 420
Wave Point 12000K
Wave Point Ultra Cola
PowerVeg 633
PowerVeg FS + UV
Wave Point Ultra Cola
Wave Point 460
Wave Point 420


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

and people make fun of multi-colored LEDs.................


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

gus6464 said:


> Found a local shop with the PowerVegs. Going to try their FS + UV and 633. This is what I'm thinking now for 8 bulb combo on my ATI.
> 
> Wave Point 420
> Wave Point 12000K
> ...


Looking forward to seeing that. 

What size tank are you running 8 bulbs over??

Bump:


Chlorophile said:


> Hmm.. I got the 460.
> Holy moly it's blue blue blue..
> Kinda ugly.
> With this I can understand not wanting ANY lightspill out into the room..
> ...


Pics??? We need pics! 

And man you are going off the deep end......compulsive buyer??..........nice to see someone else do it too!!


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Greggz said:


> Looking forward to seeing that.
> 
> What size tank are you running 8 bulbs over??
> 
> ...


Going over my old reef tank. It's a custom 24x24x16. I finally sold the last of my saltwater fish so I can clean the sump this weekend. I might need 1 more bag of Controsoil though.

Bump:


Chlorophile said:


> Hmm.. I got the 460.
> Holy moly it's blue blue blue..
> Kinda ugly.
> With this I can understand not wanting ANY lightspill out into the room..
> ...


That is insanely blue. Not even the ATI Blue+ is that blue. Don't think I've ever seen a reef branded T5 bulb that blue. Most are a soft blue.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Greggz said:


> gus6464 said:
> 
> 
> > Found a local shop with the PowerVegs. Going to try their FS + UV and 633. This is what I'm thinking now for 8 bulb combo on my ATI.
> ...


Lol sorry they're in the imgur link, I hate doing pics from my phone!

It just made everything look kinda bad. It reminded me of when I had the current satellite plus and would mess with the rgb all wrong lol.
I grabbed a 3k just to see what it's like... But that'll probably be too much red with the other red.
The 420nm blue I saw on display it's not as vivid.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Ok I am at a computer now so I will try to summarize. 
Powerveg 633 is really nice with 3 full spectrums. 
Somehow, powerveg 633 is even nicer with 2 full spectrums and a 3000k?
Put a Spectralux 3000k bulb up and they blend well, it gives the entire tank a sort of pinkish color like what I'd assume a Flora type bulb would. 

The 633 AND 460 
























The white balance compensates a little too so.. it was worse than that lol.

2 full spectrum, 633 and 3000K

























I would like to find something a tiny bit "aquamarine" 
or greenish blue or something but I am not sure what would really set it off and get that final bit of pop.
I was thinking of either something like a 12000K super daylight style.. 
I'm looking through google images and the Aquablue Plus or Lagoon Blue look like they could be good choices. 
Not as VIVID PURE BLUE POLICE CAR mode lol. 
Aquablue Coral, Coral Plus or Aquablue Azure maybe.. 
Idk I need someone to just bring their bulbs over here lol. 

I can probably skip a super flora with this 3000k bulb, they look to be a similar color from pics as well. 
Super Purple might still be a good choice. 
Okay I'm just going in circles!

As for my pH today. 
I have been upping co2 every day lately, today the fish were stressed as heck for the first hour, my pH was a 6.5
Last night when I came home and the co2 was off ALL DAY with agitation and plant consumption I did a pH reading and it was 8.5
IDK if that pH reading would have been LOWER then degassed since there is plant consumption and low fish load/bioload, or if it would still be the same as degassed due to lots of surface ripple. 
I'm leaning towards it being lower than degassed given the mega amounts of light on the tank. 

SO, that means I had a 2.0 pH drop this morning an hour after lights on. 
Pearling picked up to alka-seltzer levels by 2 hours after lights on. 
Now an hour before co2 goes off I checked and pH drop is only 1.4
So I'm consuming the heck out of some co2.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Chlorophile said:


> Ok I am at a computer now so I will try to summarize.
> Powerveg 633 is really nice with 3 full spectrums.
> Somehow, powerveg 633 is even nicer with 2 full spectrums and a 3000k?
> Put a Spectralux 3000k bulb up and they blend well, it gives the entire tank a sort of pinkish color like what I'd assume a Flora type bulb would.
> ...


Coral+ is just white with a smidgen of blue. If you want a baby blue color go with Blue+.

I would try a Powerveg 660 and 633. Your regular daylight and a 12000K white.

That Powerveg 633 though is definitely the sequel to the beloved UVL Red Sun.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Chlorophile said:


> The 633 AND 460


Why don't you just save some time and go buy the Seneye right now.

You know you are going to eventually anyway, might as well get it over with.>

You will be glad you did, and more importantly I'd love to see the readings on all of those bulbs.:wink2:


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Greggz said:


> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> > The 633 AND 460
> ...


Lol oh greggz! But then my bulb budget would be gone lol

The 460 would definitely be a par and Pur monster I think, based on spectrum alone
I could probably go up to the horticulture store and test all the bulbs there instead of buying them all haha


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

you probably have enough power.. so sleeve a daylight one..

https://www.pnta.com/lighting/gels/calcolor-cc15-cyan/

WAY outside the box but worth considering..
$20 48" sleeve..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> you probably have enough power.. so sleeve a daylight one..
> 
> https://www.pnta.com/lighting/gels/calcolor-cc15-cyan/
> 
> ...


Very interesting..
For now I'll keep trying bulbs but that could be a good fit.
Still wanna swap one of my daylight for a BlueMax tho!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Definitely leaning towards Aquablue Special or Ati Coral Plus or a 12000k..
I'll have to order from here on out so now I need to be a bit more sure.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Chlorophile said:


> Definitely leaning towards Aquablue Special or Ati Coral Plus or a 12000k..
> I'll have to order from here on out so now I need to be a bit more sure.


You don't have a reef shop where you live? You are for sure likely to find ATI bulbs there to check out. Aquablue special might be that white you want. It has more yellow than coral+.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

gus6464 said:


> You don't have a reef shop where you live? You are for sure likely to find ATI bulbs there to check out. Aquablue special might be that white you want. It has more yellow than coral+.


Maybe.. the closest I can think of is 25 minutes drive and I wasn't in the mood.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Replace one full spectrum with an ati purple and that'll be a good light.

The hydroponic purple you mentioned might do the trick, or whatever geishman's version is.

Also Im curious have you tried the 460 with this combo,, in place of one full spectrum? That might work too

Here's my 75, I dont really like the current combo, too cool. 










Front to back

3000K
Zoo-med 420 actinic ($10 fwiw)
Powerveg 660 
6500K 










A purple would look better than the actinic. A 633 would look better than the 660. And Im pretty sure one of these blue max in place of the 6500K would crisp things up a bit.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

burr740 said:


> Replace one full spectrum with an ati purple and that'll be a good light.
> 
> The hydroponic purple you mentioned might do the trick, or whatever geishman's version is.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately no, I returned the 460 for the 3000k
The powerveg are like 30 bucks so I kindly gave it back haha.

Your pics are basically what my tank looked like with the 460, too cool and a bit neon with the mix.

Okay so maybe if my reef store has ATI I'll try a purple and a aquablue and see what looks better!
They also have a green bulb but idk what that would do lol!


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Swapped out the 6500K for the Bluemax 5000K

5000K










before w/the 6500K -



burr740 said:


> 3000K
> Zoo-med 420 actinic ($10 fwiw)
> Powerveg 660
> 6500K
> ...


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

burr740 said:


> Swapped out the 6500K for the Bluemax 5000K
> 
> 5000K
> 
> ...


Background greens seem to have more pop. Also the red tips on the pantanal in the back are accented more.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

gus6464 said:


> Background greens seem to have more pop. Also the red tips on the pantanal in the back are accented more.


I think its definitely better. The combo in general still has problems, but it's a farm tank so Im not too concerned about it. Otherwise Id get another 633 instead of the 660, and a purple instead of the actitnic.

Also note that its daytime in the 5000Ks pic so the plants are opened up better. It was middle of the night in the first pic.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

burr740 said:


> gus6464 said:
> 
> 
> > Background greens seem to have more pop. Also the red tips on the pantanal in the back are accented more.
> ...


It's subtle but better.
Would probably be more noticeable without the actinic


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Went to the local fish store and they had all the ATI bulbs, in 3 foot or longer!
I picked up a red sea reef spec blue white 15000k, hopefully that one will make the color a little bit better.
They had lots of Coralife bulbs but I'm going to skip that brand as per burrs recommendation.
They also had a Red Sea pink bulb but I already have plenty of pink in the tank so I'm probably good on that one


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

This bulb seems perfect.
Has a big green spike on the chart which is probably helping color quality and cools it off just enough.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Wow, those are some nice pics!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Immortal1 said:


> Wow, those are some nice pics!


Thank you!
This is the first bulb combo I've run where the pictures actually look like what I'm seeing with my eyes.
The white balance on my admittedly poor camera couldn't match the color of the tank very well before.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Chlorophile said:


> Thank you!
> This is the first bulb combo I've run where the pictures actually look like what I'm seeing with my eyes.
> The white balance on my admittedly poor camera couldn't match the color of the tank very well before.





> *REEF-SPEC™ BlueWhite 15000K*
> 
> This special color blend (60:40 ratio of 6000K and 22,000K) reproduces the natural lighting conditions of tropical reefs between 1m-20m depth.


so the exact set ?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

LOL @Chlorophile - "white balance" is something I have been struggling to get right on my pictures for a while. Sitting here in front of my tank it looks better than it ever has. Water is clear enough to almost appear as though it does not exist - fish just floating in space. Plant colors look amazing... now take a picture of it. Picture looks like poo. My LG-G6 has a bunch of different settings in manual mode (White Balance, ISO, S* and a few others - still have no clue how to reproduce what I see.

So, I give you credit for making good looking pictures.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you!
> ...


Haha I was actually about to ping you, curious about that software you plug bulbs into.

I'm running..

Eye hortilux powerVeg 633
Spectralux 3000k plant growth
RedSea reef spec BlueWhite
Flarescent "silhouette high output" 6500k grow

The last bulb would probably get swapped for the BlueMax but was trying not to order anything so I could pay cash... Keep the wife out of the loop a little lmao.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

https://automeris.io/WebPlotDigitizer/

Start here.. 









Download notepad++
clean data.
https://notepad-plus-plus.org/

Then import into spectra..
http://spectra.1023world.net/

Need a better graph than the one above though.. well for any hope of semi-accuracy..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> https://automeris.io/WebPlotDigitizer/
> 
> Start here.. <a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
> 
> ...


Why do you say that?
Because they have spikes and dips instead of roundiness?
I thought that was kinda weird lol.

I'll start working on it soon, curious what it'll say


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Because there are no def grid lines for alignment..
like these..








Tried tropic wave:









X axis was kind of wonky.. About 5nm out in "some" places..


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Because there are no def grid lines for alignment..
> like these..
> 
> 
> ...


Super difficult for me lol. Not sure what I'm doing!
Gonna try tomorrow some more, my brain is too squishy.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

It's just tedious..
ONE hint is the data needs to start at 380 to import..even if you don't map points..
Can't use reg notepad.. it is stupid.
Skip trying to do it "auto" Some seemed to have luck.. Me, never..




> 380, 0
> 385, 0
> 390, 0
> 395, 0.02261
> ...


"Fixing" bad points:
After clicking fix put your curser over the point, then use arrow keys..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Went to the hydroponics store today that carries PowerVeg. Got myself 2x 633 and 1x FS+UV. Finished rewiring my ATI as well to fire up how I want it. This is what I came up with.










Front to back
Wave Point 12000K white
PowerVeg 633
Wave Point Ultra Cola
PowerVeg FS+UV
PowerVeg 633
Wave Point Ultra Cola
Wave Point 12000K white
Wave Point 420nm actinic

Not too sure about the purple actinic. Think I am going to swap for either an ATI Purple+ or a Coral+. The FS+UV has all kinds of warnings in the packaging to not put your hand under it or look at it for more than 30 mins haha. Crazy though how that combo has meaningful output from 300nm to 710nm.


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

I will have to give one of these growlights a try. I would have to figure out how to hang it. I always wanted one of the 48 inch 6 or 8 bulb fixtures from Catalina Aquariums, but they closed.  

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

gus6464 said:


> Went to the hydroponics store today that carries PowerVeg. Got myself 2x 633 and 1x FS+UV. Finished rewiring my ATI as well to fire up how I want it. This is what I came up with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, pics of the tank? 
Looks good!


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

HO! Those lights looks like what Real Men would use, no playing around getting it done.


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