# Photography



## Negaprion (Oct 27, 2003)

Just splurged and bought the Nikon D100 SLR. Any good photography tips for shooting a planted tank?


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## asmodion (Jan 26, 2004)

I recently bought a Canon Ditigal Rebel SLR, and an EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM lens (canon). I don't know the specifics of your camera, but I can give the following advice.

If you want the subject(s) to be in focus and looking good, you're going to need a decent low-light lens and you will want to crank your aperature nice and tight. I go with an f-number of between 9-20 depending on what I'm shooting. This is with my macro lens though, which is a lot more sensitive (up close) to focus-range issues. 

In order to use a tighter aperature, you're going to need a TON of light on the tank, or you need to leave the shutter open forever. I currently use my flash in addition to 360w of overhead tank lighting. This isn't really the best way to do it. From what I've read, the best way to go about this is to build an overhead flash canopy and use a remote flash on top of the tank. This way you have natural top-down lighting on the plants and fish, and avoid glass-reflection issues, as well as unnatural looking shadows. With a regular camera flash, you end up with tons of problems if the flash hits the glass and reflects back into the lens or even if it illuminates the room behind you, which reflects on the the surface glass. You want everything else in the room off, and the glass perfectly clean, etc.

Another issue is ISO and shutter speed. If you're taking pics of a planted tank with no fish, or if you don't care that they're a blur, you can ignore the flash issues and set your camera for a long shutter opening. I have done this with my camera on a tripod and a delay set so that you don't wiggle the camera when pushing the shutter button. You may be able to get a remote camera control too, though I don't know specifics on the Nikon.

As for ISO, you should try to shoot for the lowest possible ISO setting on a digital camera, since this will be the "native" mode for your CCD chip. Anything above the lowest ISO setting will introduce noise, which is a result of the increase in gain on the signal coming from the chip. The noise is likely not noticable though until higher settings. My Canon camera shows a little noise at ISO 1600, but lower than that I cannot tell. If you want to test it, I suggest taking identical photos of something which has a pure-black area (shadow or black color). Compare the shadow/black areas on each photo. This is where the noise will be most evident. 

I hope this was helpful.. I am new to this as well, and currently looking into an overhead remote flash system. I'll let you all know what I end up doing.


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

ISO in a digital camera? That is just silly. (Yes I know the camera manufacturers have this built into higher end digitals) ISO is the films sensitivity to light, by setting this on a digital camera, you are just making a "virtual" adjustment. It is just adding or subtracting from the baseline value the ccd captures and compensates the light meter accordingly. You can do the same by adjusting the brightness in post production (photoshop, et. al.)


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## asmodion (Jan 26, 2004)

That's not exactly true. They don't adjust the light meter, they actually up the voltage to the CCD chip to increase the 'gain' and amplify the apparent light on the chip. I agree that it's silly to call it ISO though, but I guess they're trying to make life easier for real photographers who are coming from the film world. I never dealt with film though so I don't really care for the ISO setting.


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

asmodian: Since the light meter is probably coming from the CCD data, you're probably right, no adjustment is necessary. I was assuming a separate light meter like in a film camera.


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## Negaprion (Oct 27, 2003)

Thanks for all of the info. I've got a 90mm f/2.8 Macro lens. I'll do some experimenting with it. It has a very narrow depth of field, so I expect this will be challenging. 

For shooting the entire tank, do you want all of the room lights off? 

Any suggestions for shooting fish; always moving, so as you said, blur problems.


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## asmodion (Jan 26, 2004)

To tackle the depth-of-field problem you must adjust the aperature. I would set up a piece of paper or something approx the distance you're going to be shooting from when doing fish close-ups, and then take a bunch of different shots with increasing f-number (smaller aperature) settings. Examine each shot so you can determine what the difference is going to be, and how much depth you get from each setting. The larger the setting, the less light you're letting in, but the more of the scene will be in focus. At the higher end, you're going to start seeing some distortion though, so keep it reasonable. Also, the higher the setting, the more light will be required. An intense flash helps this but will introduce all new issues. I think under f-20 is a safe range though (for f-number). I do some fish shots at 9, but if you want plants and other stuff in focus, or if you're REALLY close up, go higher, or move your camera further back. 

For shooting the entire tank, I would make sure that everything in the room is off. You're definitely going to have flash problems too, if you are using the camera-mounted flash. Your choices for dealing with insufficient light are not pretty though unless you go with an external flash. You can decrease shutter speed (blurry fish/anything moving, must use tripod and either remote shutter or delayed shutter), increase ISO (probably won't be enough, and will cause "digital noise"), or decrease your f-number down to the 2.8 of your lens... though that's not likely going to be sufficient.

As for taking action shots, I have my shutter set to 1/4000 sec, and I use a flash. You may have to be more conservative with f-number because with a fast shutter like 1/4000 you're not letting a whole lot of light in to begin with. It's all about lighting with fish photography it seems.


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## Aurore (Jan 20, 2004)

Hmm... I'm new to planted tanks and fish but not to photography, so forgive me for any strange comments. But... why must the 'blur' problems neccessarily be overcome? It seems like you might also try working with the ever-moving fish. I've never seen a panned fish photo... now that would be cool.  

Personally, I would suggest, if you really really want a nice shot of your fish, high-speed film. I mean, let's face it, affordable digital just doesn't do high-speed. But film can. So don't rule it out. You might find that film works better for your purposes, and you can still have it put on CD to work with in PS. I'm sure you or somebody you know has a nice older manual canon or nikon. Add some professional high-speed color film and you shouldn't have a problem getting a good shot with the right aperture and shutter speed. I would suggest f/8 at 1/125. Under typical planted-tank-lighting that should work out. 

Forgive me for being a traditionalist (and I'm only 22 - go figure). I've just seen it proven time and time again that digital can't do quality action shots in anything but sunlight. But hey, if there's a window nearby, maybe you can reflect some of that great light into the tank. 

And as was already said, for shooting the whole tank, shut off the lights in the room, add any possible light to the tank, and keep the 'iso' low. However, you will also get noise with longer exposures. At a distance far enough to cover the whole tank, you should be able to get away with keeping the aperture low (f/4) and using a higher ss (at least 1/30).

Good Luck!


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## Negaprion (Oct 27, 2003)

Aurore, Asmodion;

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'll do some experimenting with the D100 tonight and see what I can come up with. I can tripod mount and use a delayed shutter. The camera has aperature priority modes, so I'll set the aperature as you have suggested and see what the camera meters the shutter speed at. As for film, I also have an N50 body. I may give that a try as well. Perhaps I can do a comparison. 

On nice thing about the D100 is that you can shoot in RAW mode and using the Nikon capture software, you can adjust just about everything afterwards, including exposure.

I'm sure your Canon has something similar.

Anyway, I'll see what I can do tonight and post some photos.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Asmodion, great info, thanks for sharing. I noticed that the non-SLR digitals (with a smaller LCD chip) have an amazing depth of field, and most blurry pictures are caused by (camera or subject) movements rather than being out of focus. I found the solution for my camera when setting it to a flash sync timing of 1/250 instead of the default 1/60s.

I have played around with my nice external flash, using it at various angles, and placing it overhead. It's funny... is still get the best repeatable results when using the little built-in flash. The strength is just right for closeups, and using telephoto setting and a slight angle to the glass, reflections are not a problem. The issues with placing the flash on top have been that 1) Fishes don't behave "naturally" if there is something strange on top of them 2) the narrow angle of the flash makes it difficult to use for larger tanks (you mentioned a flash _canopy_) 3) any floating debris shows up as bright white spots.

For full tank shots, I suggest to NOT use the flash. For long tanks, you might consider taking separate shots of the left and right part and then stitching them together.

Aurore, you are right in saying that cheap digitals are not suitable for high-speed shooting. But not so much due to the light issue, but because of the slow autofocus and shutter lag. What is affordable? It is still quite a chunk of change for a camera like asmodians, but prices have (and still do) come down so fast, if you are serious into photography I think the choice today is clearly digital :mrgreen:

How about that for a panned fish photo?


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## asmodion (Jan 26, 2004)

Does your camera have a manual mode (M)? 
If so, you should probably consider using it rather than aperature priority mode. This way you can control shutter speed yourself, as your camera is likely going to significantly lower the shutter speed in order to compensate. This is how I do it. If you guys want to check out a couple of pics I have online (greatly reduced in size), here are links. Keep in mind that I'm new to this, be gentle. Note the algae on my plants in the last image.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~edward.work/fish1.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/~edward.work/fish2.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/~edward.work/fish3.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/~edward.work/fish4.jpg


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

erm something small, if your pumps create enough current to move the leaves of your plants, even slightly, switch it off for a minute or two while you do the shots to keep leaves still and crisp.


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## Negaprion (Oct 27, 2003)

Asmodion, yes I have a fully manual mode. I'll use that. Great shots, btw. 

Wasserpest, awesome loach shot. I agree, the blur works well in this photo. I tried doing some shots with my previous Olympus C5050. Excellent camera, but I never had much luck with fish or aquarium shots. The shutter delay is a killer.


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## BOTIA (Dec 23, 2003)

A few simple tips.
Shoot with room lights off.
Use a macro setting on your camera.
I also use a spot focus setting for individual fish pics
No flash 
Play with -/+ exposure stops
If your tank uses standard tubes use some 6500k T8 tubes just for pics.
Take lots of pics and experiment with photoshop
Good Luck
8)


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## salito718 (Jan 9, 2004)

with d100 you have much greater control than with typical point and shoot digital cameras, You have an actual dslr, so all those settings and stuff forget about them, shoot on manual and set your preferences ...aperture, shutter, iso. you can take great pics with this camera, I have a 10d I absolutely will never shoot with film again, if you have a raw mode, shoot in that, you will get greater post proccesing control in the end, you won't be sorry..

but the best advice is practice, and see what works for you, you have one of the best consumer cameras out there...you are definately not lacking in equipment


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## jojomichael (Sep 16, 2003)

Negaprion said:


> Just splurged and bought the Nikon D100 SLR. Any good photography tips for shooting a planted tank?


Head over to Nikonians.org

They have a forum dedicated to your D100


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## Negaprion (Oct 27, 2003)

Thats a great site. Thanks for the tip!


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

This is a great thread. I just got a Digital Rebel and my head is spinning with the freedom of adjustability that I am totally not used to. Have any of you guys used the White Balance adjustments to compensate for the blue fluorescent light? There is a "Fluorescent" WB mode that I can't wait to try. 

I'm a totaly newb when it comes to manual photography. So far my best luck has been in the Tv mode (with no flash) where I simply set the shutter speed as low as possible without blur, and go with as big an aperture (low f stop) as it allows to get the right exposure. But asmodion is right, the pictures still come out somewhat underexposed.

I need to try out some flash photography, like Wasser suggested - with the camera at an angle to move the reflection out of view.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

Just an additional tip, if you're shooting a single fish, spot meter.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Does anyone know how to do center-weighted, or spot metering on the 300D, other than being in the full manual, M mode?


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

On both my new Nikon Coolpix 4100 and former Canon A40, I got my best shots with the WB Flourescent setting. Actually, I seem to recall the A40 also have a Tungston setting that worked pretty well also. I take shots when I can turn off all house lights, leave on just the tank lights (still deciding if I like all tank light or only some tank lights), turn off flash, set WB as above, set the timer, set the camera on a tripod and snap off a few.

Major camera novice,
Brian.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Sam, if you have a decent size memory card, try shooting in RAW instead. That way, you won't have to worry about using any of the preset WB and can change it afterwards at your leisure. It's also always better to tweak with the RAW files before hand and then converting it over to jpeg. 

Also, consider trying out the aperture priority mode. It'll give you a baseline as to where to start with your existing lighting and will at least show you what kind of shutter speed is possible. I've been shooting in this mode for awhile now, and also in manual when I put one of the older lenses on the camera (both older macro lenses).

As for what aperture to shoot at, it really depends on what kind of lighting you're dealing with here. If the tank is dimly lit, you're gonna have to shoot it wide open. This unfortunately leaves you with a very small DOF, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially for isolating a certain fish as the subject. Stopping down will increase the DOF, but unless you have adequate lighting, the pictures will turn out very dark or even pitch black. One way to get around this is to use an off camera flash. Brings in a whole new world of possibilities, allowing you to freeze motion and also change the lighting directions (if you only have the onboard flash, then definitely considering snapping the pictures at an angle). Don't even worry about using the flash if you're doing full tank shots.

It's also dependent on which lens you will be using. Most lenses out there are at their sharpest when stopped down one to two stops.

BTW, don't worry about using the macro settings on either the D100 or the 300D. You'll get better results out of either the manual, aperture priority, or shutter priority modes. 

If you're trying to freeze fish motion, it really depends on how fast the fish is moving. Most pictures of these guys will come out blurry unless you're shooting at higher shutter speeds; along the lines of 1/125 secs. or faster.

Flash. If you're considering using one of these, then invest in a diffuser of some sort. The SB-800s that I own have an omnibounce on their heads which diffuses the light down a bit (still not as well as softboxes, but does the trick).

The Tamron 90mm lens is tack sharp. Given a fair amount of lighting or using an off camera flash you can get some great images even when it's stopped down. I've been able to get pictures at f16 with the flash on half power.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

GulfCoastAquarian said:


> Does anyone know how to do center-weighted, or spot metering on the 300D, other than being in the full manual, M mode?


The Canons don't do spot, just center wegihted average and the camera decides what you want. That's why I'm waiting for something else, I have a feeling that Canon will add that feature in it's next incarnation.

I really can't believe they didn't have it in the current version, my local shop said it was basically going to be a film rebel with a CCD, I was rather disappointed really.

Something comes to mind though, if you have a 300D, and live in the US, please tell me you bought it from a good dealer like B&H, the 300D is a grey market in the US, the warranty is only as good as the place you bought it from, the Canon USA warranty is void.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

IBN, I'm pretty sure the Rebel synchs at 125, and if you're using the onboard flash, buy a rubber collapsible hood, you can use it to seal out ambient light and reflections from the flash by putting it up against the glass and it gives you a fair range of motion. Beaware thoguh that if the subject is to close, you'll get a shadow from the lens/hood, it's better to use an accesory flash anyway. I have a couple cheapo slaves, I diffuse them with tissue paper.

A softbox would be nice, I use to have a JTL digital studio setup, but I sold it for another toy. But I was quite happy with it, the guy I sold it to has a nice digital studio setup for catalog work.


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## FMZ (Jul 13, 2004)

I have a suggestion. Shoot in ISO 800, this way, you won't have to worry about the noise. The camera D100 is basically noise free upto 800. Trust me on this. And yes, the problem with shooting with a film is that you have to wait for the results to come, and with digital, you dont have to wait.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

glass-gardens.com said:


> The Canons don't do spot, just center wegihted average and the camera decides what you want. That's why I'm waiting for something else, I have a feeling that Canon will add that feature in it's next incarnation.
> 
> I really can't believe they didn't have it in the current version, my local shop said it was basically going to be a film rebel with a CCD, I was rather disappointed really.
> 
> Something comes to mind though, if you have a 300D, and live in the US, please tell me you bought it from a good dealer like B&H, the 300D is a grey market in the US, the warranty is only as good as the place you bought it from, the Canon USA warranty is void.


Don't have the 300D, so can't help you in regards to spot focusing. Also, most of the 300D are under US warranty, especially if you bought it from a reputable vendor, such as B&H, Adorama, etc.

Canon does have a second iteration of the 300D. It's called the D Rebel XT. An 8 megapixel addition to their lineup with a nice set of features, putting it on par with the Nikon D70 and in some areas even above it. It's still not the same as the film version, especially with the shutter speeds, but it's a big step toward it (for something closer, you would have to take a look at some of the higher end offerings). What this has done, however, is cannibalize the 300D market. I've seen the prices of 300D's drop like rocks, especially in the used market. People are letting go of their 300Ds, some of them with less than 500 actuations, for around the $500-550 mark.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

glass-gardens.com said:


> IBN, I'm pretty sure the Rebel synchs at 125, and if you're using the onboard flash, buy a rubber collapsible hood, you can use it to seal out ambient light and reflections from the flash by putting it up against the glass and it gives you a fair range of motion. Beaware thoguh that if the subject is to close, you'll get a shadow from the lens/hood, it's better to use an accesory flash anyway. I have a couple cheapo slaves, I diffuse them with tissue paper.
> 
> A softbox would be nice, I use to have a JTL digital studio setup, but I sold it for another toy. But I was quite happy with it, the guy I sold it to has a nice digital studio setup for catalog work.


The rubber lens hood is a great idea. Only problem I can see is the minimum focusing distance of the lens that's being used. The Rebel sync of 1/125 I'm guessing is referring to the onboard flash and not the shutter?


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

Ibn said:


> The rubber lens hood is a great idea. Only problem I can see is the minimum focusing distance of the lens that's being used. The Rebel sync of 1/125 I'm guessing is referring to the onboard flash and not the shutter?


Yes to the onboard, but not sure, it could slower, I'm thinking that was a point of discussion at my local store though.

B&H and other good dealers sell grey market and cover the warranty themelves or use a third party warranty, but as far as I know, you could not take it to a US Canon service center under factory warranty, that's why you pay less for grey market, but not that much really.

Actually, with what was posted about the D100 and noise, I have to to rethink, most of the wildlife stuff I do is early morning or evening, I currently use ISO 400 slide film, but if I could get a digital body that would even let me shoot at the 400 setting without noise issues it wouldbe a big plus for me.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

B&H and other places do sell grey market equipment, but it's clearly marked on their website and they do a pretty good job of going into details in regards to the differences in the warranty. Also, with the rebates nowadays, it's really kind of pointless to go with grey market, especially for Nikon users.

Might want to take a look at some of the digital bodies if you're interested. Not sure about the D100, but the D70 has basically no problems with noise level up to ISO 800 (same as if you were shooting at 400). Also, more of the low light issue is corrected by using faster lenses (this is where the cost of digital photography is IME). I've been shooting wildlife even on overcast days with ISO lower than 400; shoot at 200. If you're shooting on brighter days, even some of the consumer grade lenses are adequate.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

EF 300mm 2.8 L, is there a faster one I can afford? 

I also have a 100-400 USM IS but obviously it's not as fast, but handy.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

glass-gardens.com said:


> EF 300mm 2.8 L, is there a faster one I can afford?
> 
> I also have a 100-400 USM IS but obviously it's not as fast, but handy.


Both nice pieces of glass you have there. roud: 

Given a bright sunny day, the 100-400 would make a great lens. The zoom factor on it makes it easy to compose a picture and the 400mm is a great reach (I have to use a 1.4x TC on my 100-300 to get to 420). The other nice thing about this lens is the IS feature on it, making it applicable to shoot with it handheld. Not exactly a L glass, but for what it is, does it quite well.

The 300mm 2.8 L is definitely a great lens from what I've seen from it. Perfect for low light and is relatively sharp even with a 2x TC. Would effectively turn it into a 600mm 5.6 lens, which is still quite fast (you're shooting at this range on average anyways; maybe a stop or two more if you're using a polarizer). Of course, that might explain the hefty price tag of nearly $4k for this great piece of glass. As for an affordable lens that is affordable and faster than this, I don't think so. :wink: The Sigma "Beastma" has longer reach than this (300-800) and the price is just 10% more than this, but that's a 5.6 lens. Not faster, but longer and for that price is really hard to beat (optically, it's very nice).


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

The zoom is an L series, sorry bout that.

As for price, I paid exactly $1200.00 for the 300 and $1000.00 for the 100-400 both very used, the paint is ugly and on the 300, the autofocus goes hayball on occasion, but if you shut the camera off and on it comes back fine. But the optics are flawless and that's what counts.

I purchased them at a police auction. No one bid on them but me, I suppose the appearance scared them off, but I had the chance to mount them on my body prior to the auction (be nice to your loco PD it pays) so I knew they worked except for the auto focus glitch, I'll get it fixed when it dorks completely.

Unfortunately, even the 300 isn't all that great in low light without a tripod, when I say early morning and evening, I mean when the sun is just above the horizon. The only game you can get a shot at around here in broad daylight are deer. I have three CD's full of deer photo's, and probably 30 or so undeveloped rolls. I'm going after the bobcats, fox, coyotes, which are bit more reclusive if not rare.And they tend not to stand still so a tripod is a bit impractical although a monopod helps.

I'm hoping for the impossible this year, there are two confirmed cougars in the Saylorville area, visual sightings and tracks. Spring would be the best time and I have a couple of spots picked out near where the one set was found that may prove fruitful.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Wow...talk about a steal for those lenses. 

Sounds like you have some wildlife that you can shoot on a pretty regular basis. Might want to set up a hide or something to stake out the more reclusive ones.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

glass-gardens.com said:


> Something comes to mind though, if you have a 300D, and live in the US, please tell me you bought it from a good dealer like B&H, the 300D is a grey market in the US, the warranty is only as good as the place you bought it from, the Canon USA warranty is void.


I got it at Circuit City for $709. Are you talking about overseas versions, though? I head that their US warranty was void, but if you bought it in a Brick & Mortar store here, then they sure as hell better give me service here.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

Funny you should mention the word steal seeing as they came from a police auction. 

The sad fact is, these lenses came from a drug bust. As crank becomes ever more popular, it's dragging people down that you wouldn't expect, as a result police auctions around here are getting more and more upscale in offerings.

One of the houses we looked at was fresh from a HAZMAT cleanup of the garage where a meth lab was operated, the guys personal belongings were still in the house and garage waitng to be officially forfeited.

Myself, a good triple espresso is all I need.

I have a portable deer stand I use mostly, works great.


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