# ADA Aquasoil vs Eco Complete vs Dirt



## Milkman

Hey guys, I really need help making a decision on a substrate for my new tank.

I'm setting up a 4ft (350L) tank which will be planted. I have used Tropica Plant Substrate and Tetra Complete Substrate in the past with moderate success but nothing great. My biggest obstacle is cost and as this is a big tank I need to find the most economical way to do this.

My options are:

ADA AquaSoil - I would need about 6 bags which is £167 :|
Eco Complete - I would also need about 6 bags which is £149 :crying:

Organic Potting Soil - I would only need one bag which is £8.49 and I have plenty of fine black gravel to cap it with :grin2:

As you can see, there's a massive difference in price. I also follow Dustin's Fish Tanks on YouTube and he exclusively uses dirt in his aquariums. I am new to dirt so I'm just wondering if it's worth the hassle? I heard the dirt can cause a mess when messed around with. It sure would save a lot of money which I could use for plants/fish. I don't intend to run CO2 on this tank so a good substrate is definitely necessary.

The dirt is mainly to put my Amazon Swords and Crypts in (I have loads).

Anyone got any advice or have tried this out before? I don't want to mess it up as this is a display tank in my family home :laugh2:


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## Xiaozhuang

Did you know that Eco-incomplete is just crushed lava/volcanic rock and has no significant nutrients ? The listed minerals are locked up in the crystal matrix and are unusable for plants. (like say silicon/oxygen in glass) The only use is that it has some CEC that allows nutrients to bond to it / and being a porous rock, allows root growth and bacteria action. A 2 dollar pack of dirt costs 20X less, and has carbon, nutrients etc.

You can read more on barr report... Is Eco-Complete inert substrate? How come? - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report


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## Dr. Acula

It's true that Eco Complete is basically an inert substrate that allows some nutrients to be "absorbed" from the water column, but it is also pretty decent for root development, and it won't break down over time when compared to something like Aquasoil. Though I've used it before and I don't believe it's worth the price. Aquasoil is definitely pretty good, but pricey. Dirt works, and obviously costs almost nothing. I've run a dirt tank, and the plants were happy, but it was sort of a pain to work with.

If you want another low cost option, look for fired clay products that aren't marketed to the aquarium hobby. They have good cation-exchange capacity, similar to Eco Complete, and also won't break down, etc. Something like kitty litter works well, if you can find one without any additives. Also Turface and similar products, the stuff used for like baseball infields, work great. It's available around here for something like $30 for a 50lb bag, I'm not sure what's available for you.


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## Milkman

Dr. Acula said:


> It's true that Eco Complete is basically an inert substrate that allows some nutrients to be "absorbed" from the water column, but it is also pretty decent for root development, and it won't break down over time when compared to something like Aquasoil. Though I've used it before and I don't believe it's worth the price. Aquasoil is definitely pretty good, but pricey. Dirt works, and obviously costs almost nothing. I've run a dirt tank, and the plants were happy, but it was sort of a pain to work with.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want another low cost option, look for fired clay products that aren't marketed to the aquarium hobby. They have good cation-exchange capacity, similar to Eco Complete, and also won't break down, etc. Something like kitty litter works well, if you can find one without any additives. Also Turface and similar products, the stuff used for like baseball infields, work great. It's available around here for something like $30 for a 50lb bag, I'm not sure what's available for you.




When you say it's a pain to work with, what kind of issues does it have?


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## Dr. Acula

For one, going through the process to mineralize the topsoil was somewhat time consuming. But mostly for me it was that once in the tank, the dirt slowly makes it way on top of and mixes with whatever you use for the cap. It was especially the case for areas where I was planting, pruning, replanting, and that sort of thing. Once that happened it was very easy to stir up the dirt and it would cloud the water or settle on plants. You also have to worry more about the soil compacting, or getting bubbles out, or preventing anaerobic spots. It works better in some tank types than others, but there's something to be said for a no muss or fuss substrate, that's not going to break down or really need to be maintained.


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## Milkman

Dr. Acula said:


> For one, going through the process to mineralize the topsoil was somewhat time consuming. But mostly for me it was that once in the tank, the dirt slowly makes it way on top of and mixes with whatever you use for the cap. It was especially the case for areas where I was planting, pruning, replanting, and that sort of thing. Once that happened it was very easy to stir up the dirt and it would cloud the water or settle on plants. You also have to worry more about the soil compacting, or getting bubbles out, or preventing anaerobic spots. It works better in some tank types than others, but there's something to be said for a no muss or fuss substrate, that's not going to break down or really need to be maintained.




Thanks for your help! Very informative  


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## Ilikefish

why ADA AquaSoil so cheap in euro. of coz ADA AquaSoil the first choice if just £18 difference
ADA soil like about 3X expensive than eco complete here T_T


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## Smooch

A phone call to Carib Sea will provide the answer that Eco-Complete is inert. It isn't a big secret. LOL

OP: If you opt to use Aquasoil, make sure you cycle it first if you will have critters in the tank you plan to use it in. If you will be going to the fishless cycle route, then you won't have to. The ammonia it leaches will simply be used / processed as your tank cycles.


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## micheljq

Depends on the definition inert, sand is inert, it cannot hold a great bacterial colony. Eco-complete's clay is porous and has a high CEC (good for bacterial colonization, which is good for the plants), but it must be used in conjonction with fertilisation, it does not release nutrients itself, maybe some micros but not much (same for Seachem Flourite). 

Dirt is good but will deplete with time of its nutrients, and it is messy. Personally i tried and don't like the mess it can create. Also you can introduce a lot of organic matter, which i see as a potential issue later on. I would however, not hesitate to tell anyone to try it and see if it fits his needs, since the low cost.

Eco-complete and Flourite may cost higher but they last practically for ever.

Michel.


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## Milkman

I may stick to using Tropica Plant Substrate then. I've used it in the past and it's not bad, it has moderate CEC, really easy to plant in and stays at the bottom. I could also do my whole tank for £50  I will be using additional fertilisers no matter what I go with. 

When I get the aquarium in a week or so I will post the link of the tank journal. It will be picture heavy 


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## micheljq

You don't have to have a substrate composed of 100% of the Tropica's. You could mix it with some lower cost substrate, or put the Tropica's underneath another one lower cost.

Michel.


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## Milkman

micheljq said:


> You don't have to have a substrate composed of 100% of the Tropica's. You could mix it with some lower cost substrate, or put the Tropica's underneath another one lower cost.
> 
> 
> 
> Michel.




Yeah last time I capped it with some fine black gravel. I have around 25kg still.


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## HaeSuse

Eco! Lots of Eco-hatred going on. It's expensive but I love the way it looks, it never breaks down, plants seem to love it, and it is a lovely charcoal kind of color.


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## HaeSuse

***RANT***


I know that Mr. Barr has said repeatedly that Eco's list of minerals is NOT available to the plants via the root system, or to the water column. I get it. And I'm no scientist, nor do I have any real proof of what I'm about to claim. However, it seems clear, and would be a great test to run, one day.

If it is true that Eco and Flourite have very few, if any at all, available nutrients, then wouldn't it, ipso facto, not be great at growing plants? Say, for instance, you set 2 tanks up, one with Eco, and one with regular old aquarium pebbles. Everything else 100% identical. Plant them, dose them, track them.... The ones in Eco will look like someone has a green thumb, and the ones in the pebbles will fail to flourish, or die outright. 

So, maybe it is just the CEC. I don't know. Not hypothesizing on the why/how. However, I have had plants absolutely go freaking insane, using very few (if any at all) ferts, no CO2, and average lighting, in pure Eco. Over and over. Through months of neglect. No water changes. No ferts. Just lights on in the morning, lights off at night, in Eco. And it has always been an absolute jungle.

I haven't tried the control group. i.e., the same tank, but with generic pebbles. But I'd put a lot of money on the guess that it wouldn't do half as good as Eco. 


And so, in conclusion, it seems a little judgemental (at best), or duplicitous (at worst) to attack Eco (calling it Eco-incomplete, etc) for its lack of available nutrients. The amount of happy customers that Carib-Sea has is absolutely insane. Not that that alone means it's good. But, I think the overwhelming set of evidence points toward Flourite and Eco-Complete being very strong substrates for a planted tank. And, if you aren't going soil/dirt based (like ADA), or topsoil, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better alternative, at any price point.


***RANT OVER***


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## Xiaozhuang

HaeSuse said:


> ***RANT***
> 
> 
> I know that Mr. Barr has said repeatedly that Eco's list of minerals is NOT available to the plants via the root system, or to the water column. I get it. And I'm no scientist, nor do I have any real proof of what I'm about to claim. However, it seems clear, and would be a great test to run, one day.
> 
> If it is true that Eco and Flourite have very few, if any at all, available nutrients, then wouldn't it, ipso facto, not be great at growing plants? Say, for instance, you set 2 tanks up, one with Eco, and one with regular old aquarium pebbles. Everything else 100% identical. Plant them, dose them, track them.... The ones in Eco will look like someone has a green thumb, and the ones in the pebbles will fail to flourish, or die outright.
> 
> So, maybe it is just the CEC. I don't know. Not hypothesizing on the why/how. However, I have had plants absolutely go freaking insane, using very few (if any at all) ferts, no CO2, and average lighting, in pure Eco. Over and over. Through months of neglect. No water changes. No ferts. Just lights on in the morning, lights off at night, in Eco. And it has always been an absolute jungle.
> 
> I haven't tried the control group. i.e., the same tank, but with generic pebbles. But I'd put a lot of money on the guess that it wouldn't do half as good as Eco.
> 
> 
> And so, in conclusion, it seems a little judgemental (at best), or duplicitous (at worst) to attack Eco (calling it Eco-incomplete, etc) for its lack of available nutrients. The amount of happy customers that Carib-Sea has is absolutely insane. Not that that alone means it's good. But, I think the overwhelming set of evidence points toward Flourite and Eco-Complete being very strong substrates for a planted tank. And, if you aren't going soil/dirt based (like ADA), or topsoil, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better alternative, at any price point.
> 
> 
> ***RANT OVER***


Most of us have done run different tanks with the different commercial substrates available before reaching such conclusions. That's why you won't find competition grade scapers using Eco ever - it's too coarse and not worth the price. They tend to use either aquasoils or cosmetic sand. 

If budget conscious; cheap dirt still grows stuff much better: All these are my dirt-based tanks. We did not reach this point in the hobby by making poor substrate choices.


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## houseofcards

Xiaozhuang said:


> .*..That's why you won't find competition grade scapers using Eco ever *- it's too coarse and not worth the price. They tend to use either aquasoils or cosmetic sand.


Your tanks speak for themselves and I agree with much that you said except here, where I'll disagree a bit.

The context of this discussion is not about competition grade scapers, it's someone fairly new to planted tanks and what best to use. The use of soil IMO is not always easy to use without messing up your water. For a newbie it could be fatal mistake. Eco is the cleanest and easiest to use if someone is new at setting up an aquascape and might disturb the substrate. If you dose the water column you should have no problem growing plants.


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## Smooch

HaeSuse said:


> ***RANT***
> 
> 
> I know that Mr. Barr has said repeatedly that Eco's list of minerals is NOT available to the plants via the root system, or to the water column. I get it. And I'm no scientist, nor do I have any real proof of what I'm about to claim. However, it seems clear, and would be a great test to run, one day.
> 
> If it is true that Eco and Flourite have very few, if any at all, available nutrients, then wouldn't it, ipso facto, not be great at growing plants? Say, for instance, you set 2 tanks up, one with Eco, and one with regular old aquarium pebbles. Everything else 100% identical. Plant them, dose them, track them.... The ones in Eco will look like someone has a green thumb, and the ones in the pebbles will fail to flourish, or die outright.
> 
> So, maybe it is just the CEC. I don't know. Not hypothesizing on the why/how. However, I have had plants absolutely go freaking insane, using very few (if any at all) ferts, no CO2, and average lighting, in pure Eco. Over and over. Through months of neglect. No water changes. No ferts. Just lights on in the morning, lights off at night, in Eco. And it has always been an absolute jungle.
> 
> I haven't tried the control group. i.e., the same tank, but with generic pebbles. But I'd put a lot of money on the guess that it wouldn't do half as good as Eco.
> 
> 
> And so, in conclusion, it seems a little judgemental (at best), or duplicitous (at worst) to attack Eco (calling it Eco-incomplete, etc) for its lack of available nutrients. The amount of happy customers that Carib-Sea has is absolutely insane. Not that that alone means it's good. But, I think the overwhelming set of evidence points toward Flourite and Eco-Complete being very strong substrates for a planted tank. And, if you aren't going soil/dirt based (like ADA), or topsoil, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better alternative, at any price point.
> 
> 
> ***RANT OVER***


*snickers*

I have Eco-Complete in all three of my tanks along with Flourite ( Seachem) and two of them also have Flora Max.

What makes me laugh about discussions about Eco-Complete is people act as though it is some big conspiracy including Tom Barr. Sometimes I think the welcome wagon into this hobby should hand out tinfoil hats. 

Then to add some more spice to the whole lava rock conversation, there are people that will say Eco-Complete is wonderful, but to use lava rock in a filter as bio-media is a bad idea. Yes, lava rock is porous and can hold stuff from the water column ( good and bad) so why it magically turns to crap when used as bio-media in a filter is beyond me.

Sometimes you have to take things with a grain of salt or the whole box if need be.


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## Milkman

I'm thinking a mix of substrates in different areas of the tank could be beneficial now. There will be some hairgrass and staurogyne repens in the front which will appreciate the small grain of tropica, eco complete in the back for the large rooted amazon swords and crypts etc. I'm not bothered about it mixing up too much. This also makes it a lot more affordable.

Just to clarify, I'm not actually 'new' to planted aquariums, I've been doing it for years, I'm just new to the concept of dirt. I know it has some good results but ultimately I'm not prepared for the potential mess and headache as this is a display tank in my family home. Somewhere down the line I will definitely set up a dirt tank though 


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Bump:


Xiaozhuang said:


> Most of us have done run different tanks with the different commercial substrates available before reaching such conclusions. That's why you won't find competition grade scapers using Eco ever - it's too coarse and not worth the price. They tend to use either aquasoils or cosmetic sand.
> 
> If budget conscious; cheap dirt still grows stuff much better: All these are my dirt-based tanks. We did not reach this point in the hobby by making poor substrate choices.


*Amazing* tanks by the way! Are you running CO2 on these tanks? It looks that way but if you're not please share you're magic :grin2:

Bump: The poll results are also interesting. So far mainly ADA aquasoil, with eco complete just behind. 0 votes for dirt


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## Xiaozhuang

Thanks... Yes, CO2 for these few. I had a couple of low tech dirt tanks as well, but switched to running larger CO2 injected tank over the years

This is one of the low tech tanks I grew out; dirt based, slightly higher lighting. Mostly low tech plants except the DHG


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## Milkman

Xiaozhuang said:


> Thanks... Yes, CO2 for these few. I had a couple of low tech dirt tanks as well, but switched to running larger CO2 injected tank over the years
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the low tech tanks I grew out; dirt based, slightly higher lighting. Mostly low tech plants except the DHG




Looks awesome! Was there any CO2 in that tank or was it completely low tech?


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## Xiaozhuang

Milkman said:


> Looks awesome! Was there any CO2 in that tank or was it completely low tech?


Completely low tech; no dry start rubbish etc. Dirt works well


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## BioChemWorld

Xiaozhuang said:


> Most of us have done run different tanks with the different commercial substrates available before reaching such conclusions. That's why you won't find competition grade scapers using Eco ever - it's too coarse and not worth the price. They tend to use either aquasoils or cosmetic sand.
> 
> If budget conscious; cheap dirt still grows stuff much better: All these are my dirt-based tanks. We did not reach this point in the hobby by making poor substrate choices.



Your scapes are gorgeous!!!


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## Hoppy

HaeSuse said:


> Eco! Lots of Eco-hatred going on. It's expensive but I love the way it looks, it never breaks down, plants seem to love it, and it is a lovely charcoal kind of color.


I haven't seen any hatred of Eco-Complete here. All that we who comment negatively about it say is that, *contrary to their advertising*, it does not supply nutrients to the plants. I agree that it is a good substrate material. There are a lot of good substrate materials.


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## houseofcards

So this is all BS? 

https://www.caribsea.com/caribsea_floraspore.html

I'm not 100% convinced that EC is as inert as for example Pool Filter Sand. Certainly not saying it's complete, but are ALL it's nutrients unavailable to plants even over time.


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## Caelan

Oooo now I want a dirt based tank!!!


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## Hoppy

houseofcards said:


> So this is all BS?
> 
> https://www.caribsea.com/caribsea_floraspore.html
> 
> I'm not 100% convinced that EC is as inert as for example Pool Filter Sand. Certainly not saying it's complete, but are ALL it's nutrients unavailable to plants even over time.


Time is certainly a factor, but I suspect the time involved is years and not days or months. Otherwise, wouldn't the "sand" in bodies of water gradually disappear, and those bodies of water can easily be a million years old, suggesting that the "sand" would all be "mud", and totally washed away, creating a competitor to the Grand Canyon. Yes, that is an exaggeration, but, as I recall, the local biology is not a significant factor in water erosion. Also if the substrate was being used by the plants for minerals in any significant way wouldn't our substrate be disappearing gradually with time? Does it?


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## houseofcards

I hear what your saying, I guess I'm not completely convinced that there isn't 'anything' being extracted from the rock by the plant roots.


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## Chark

I am setting up my first planted aquarium. I have found this discussion most helpful. I have already purchased Eco complete and was somewhat lamenting my choice. I had purchased Eco complete after reading several "How to" articles one of them is even on this site. Now I am I am resolute that I have made the right choice for me. I can see the benefits of soil but believe that soil would be more than I am ready for. 

Thank you all for the great discussion.


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## Milkman

Chark said:


> I am setting up my first planted aquarium. I have found this discussion most helpful. I have already purchased Eco complete and was somewhat lamenting my choice. I had purchased Eco complete after reading several "How to" articles one of them is even on this site. Now I am I am resolute that I have made the right choice for me. I can see the benefits of soil but believe that soil would be more than I am ready for.
> 
> Thank you all for the great discussion.




Glad we could help [emoji106]


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## houseofcards

This is a setup I did with Eco when I first got started in the hobby. Not much of a scape but the plants grew great. I honestly don't remember if I was dosing the water column, but I think I was.


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## HaeSuse

houseofcards said:


> I hear what your saying, I guess I'm not completely convinced that there isn't 'anything' being extracted from the rock by the plant roots.


I tend to agree. I completely and totally acknowledge that my own limited experience is not enough to form an informed opinion. However, IF all nutrients are unavailable on the short time scale (and the long time scale is years or decades or longer), then I don't understand how I've grown exceptionally prolific plants without any CO2 or ferts. Have my plants lived exclusively off of snail and fish poop and light? Because I have gone years without dosing any ferts, or running any CO2, and I still had to take giant bags of extra plants to my local LFS, once every month or two. 

I just feel certain that doing the exact same thing in river pebbles, even ones that were machined to have the exact same surface properties, shape and size as Eco, would not do the same thing. 

Again, I acknowledge that it is a completely unscientific position to take.

Bump:


Xiaozhuang said:


> Most of us have done run different tanks with the different commercial substrates available before reaching such conclusions. That's why you won't find competition grade scapers using Eco ever - it's too coarse and not worth the price. They tend to use either aquasoils or cosmetic sand.


I'm no competitive scaper. To be honest, the existence of such a thing is news to me. However, I would tend to think that the main reason(s) is that it's not that pretty. The coarseness of it is a turn off, and I understand that. ADA looks much more natural. It is also less harsh on the eyes, with the smaller size, and smoother surface. It is also a more uniform color.


But, it only takes an hour of forum flipping to find dozens of scapes setup with Eco that look competition grade (to a non competitive viewer). Maybe they aren't scaped how you like. Maybe the plants aren't the ones currently cool or attractive or popular. But there are more Eco complete tanks on this forum alone that clearly have no trouble growing any plants they want to grow, than you can shake a piece of mopani at.


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## Milkman

This thread is proving to be more interesting than I expected [emoji28]


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