# *PIC HEAVY* Crypt problem... Need some expert advice please.



## neilshieh (Sep 6, 2010)

what kind of fish do you have in there? could be something (or snails) eating them.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Lots of fish but I am 100% sure its not fish or snail damage.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

What size tank is this?

Are the damaged leaves only on new or old leaves, or evenly spread on both?

Are any of your other plants showing bad growth?

What are your other plant species?

What snails (nerites?), and fish species are in the tank?

Why are you so sure it isn't snail or fish damage?


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Zapins said:


> What size tank is this?
> 
> Are the damaged leaves only on new or old leaves, or evenly spread on both?
> 
> ...


the damage leaves are all older ones. no other plants are really showing the same symptoms, I do have slower growth because I am low tech but it's generally healthy growth.
Amazon Sword
-	Anubius Barteri
-	Anubias Nana
-	Anubius Petite
-	Anubias Unknown
-	Aponogeton Crispus
-	Aponogeton Undulatus
-	Aponogeton Ulvaceus
-	Bolbitis Heudelotii
-	Crinum Natans
-	Cryptocoryne Crispatula Balansae
-	Cryptocoryne Green Gecko
-	Cryptocoryne Nurii
-	Cryptocoryne Parva
-	Cryptocoryne Pontederiifolia
-	Cryptocoryne Spiralis
-	Cryptocoryne Wendtti (Red, Green, Brown)
-	Cryptocoryne X Willisi
-	Hygrophila Corymbosa Compacta
-	Hygrophila Angustifolia
-	Hygrophila Pinnatifida
-	Java Fern
-	Lace Fern
-	Oriental Sword
-	Red Melon Sword
-	Red Tiger Lotus
-	Vallisneria Natans Tiger

I have very few snails (ramshorn) left in the tank how's my yoyo loaches eat them all. I never see the snails on any of the crypts as the few remaining snails stay at the tops of the Val's where I have cut and the plant leaves slowly die.

Tank is 75g

Fish are 


24 Cardinal Tetras
-	7 Yoyo Loaches 
-	7 Kuhli Loaches
-	7 Peppered Corydoras
-	5 Siamese Algae Eaters
-	4 Pearl Gouramis
-	1 Blue Gourami aka 3 Spot Gourami
-	1 Bristle Nose Pleco


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

That is how crypt leaves die. Perhaps they need some root tabs so the individual leaves will live longer. I notice that the leaves on my big wendtii red lose the red color on the underside of the leaves when they are about to die and if I manage to catch them at that stage I can avoid the yellowing and holes and dissolving stage.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I will try and stick a root tab under each large wendtii and see if that helps. I suspected old age but wasn't sure.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

philipraposo1982 said:


> the damage leaves are all older ones. no other plants are really showing the same symptoms, I do have slower growth because I am low tech but it's generally healthy growth.


See, this is what makes me seriously question the deficiency possibility. Crypts are probably one of the toughest, if not the toughest aquarium plant out there. They very rarely develop deficiencies if ever under almost any circumstance. If you were going to get a deficiency you'd expect nearly any other of the species you own to show problems. Particularly the stem plants like the hygrophilas to show symptoms first. Even if the crypts were deficient every other plant in the tank certainly would be too.

Crypts also have long lasting leaves that can accumulate damage over time. Older leaves would have more damage than younger leaves.

Also, deficiencies generally don't tend to have jagged edges and also usually have yellow chlorotic leaf tissue surrounding damaged areas. If you look at the photos you can clearly see that while there are open holes through some areas of the leaf, you can also see that other areas have been damaged but the damage has not yet worn through the entire thickness of the leaf. This is highly suggestive of something rough scratching the leaves repeatedly until they wear through into holes. 

All of these things tell me that it is fish damage causing the problem. If I had to guess I'd have my money on either the bristle nose or the Siamese algae eaters. The pleco is nocturnal and is often the culprit when you have holes on broad horizontal leaves. They work at night when you wouldn't see what they are up to. Over time the leaves are damaged by the rough rasping mouth and end up with holes. This is why older leaves have holes and not newer leaves.

By all means try adding the fertilizer tab, but I can nearly guarantee you that the issue isn't a fertilizer issue. You will need to remove the pleco first to see if that solves the problem. If not, then try the siamese algae eaters. But I'm fairly sure it is the pleco.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

That seems like it could be a possibility for sure. I don't plant t regime fish till I tear down the tank due to a more or a major rescape so until then I may just have to deal with a bit of days here and there. 

But the sae's are on the list to go and have been considering the same for the bn.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Sounds good. Let us know how it turns out. I'd like to know which species of fish is causing the problem.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I will try new root tabs in the mean time just for good measure. But will keep you guys updated.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

You wouldn't happen to live in Fort Williams, Onterio would you? There are a few places in Ontario with soft water. I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility other then Pleco scapegoating. Exploring the GH and the possibility that Mg is limited seems no more difficult then catching the little feller. 

_"Incredulity doesn't kill curiosity; it encourages it."_ - Umberto Eco, Foucault's Pendulum. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Foucault's_Pendulum


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