# About to give up!



## KentCurtis (Jan 22, 2009)

I had thread/hair algae as well as clado on my HC. Tom posted in the thread I started about the clado and I followed his instructions of blacking the tank out for 3 days, dosing excel, and manually removing as much as possible. I used to be THAT GUY that always has threads in the algae forum...now my tank is great. As far as the hair algae, It can be kind of nasty....you can stop its growth but the nasty stuff thats dead kinda hangs there on your plants....it may be in your best interest to remove the infected plants. Dont give up!


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

If you want targeted answers, you need to give full complete tank specs. 

As an aside, true SAE's are the best hair algae eaters I've ever encountered. Although nothing will touch clado ime and anything that helps plants grow will help clado grow.


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## Sarkazmo (Jun 22, 2009)

Start dosing with Flourish and Flourish Excel and limit your light cycles. 4-5 hours on, 4-5 hours off. Algae being a very simple life form cannot adapt to the short photo periods and dies off.

Hope this helps.

Sark


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Most of my spec info is under my tank info if you click on the picture of my tank. 

I tried the black out which temporarily works but the algae comes back soon after the lights go back on. I have the CO2 so high that I cant tell how many bubbles per second it is and the checker finally turned greenish/yellow. The fish look fine although I'm a little nervous. I think I am going to just have to toss the rotalia (sp?). 

I also tried reducing the light but the problem with this is the that system is a closed loop. Without the second light it doesn't work. Could I maybe use a actinic or something? Ideas (that don't cost thousands ;p )?

Thanks for the responses.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

I would strongly suggest dosing Flourish Excel. It has removed almost all types of algae for me, and it's not that expensive.


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## sean117Ply (Jun 28, 2009)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> I would strongly suggest dosing Flourish Excel. It has removed almost all types of algae for me, and it's not that expensive.


I see people recommend Flourish Excel for an algae problem all the time, what exactly does it do? It doesn't say anything about algae on the bottle? If anything you would think it promoted algae because it's good for the plants.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

I cant remember why I didnt use it before, isnt it toxic to some sort of plant? Which I think I have but I cant remember which plant it is. 

And to follow up on sean117Ply's question, why is it so wonderful? I used dry fertilizers, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Sulfate, Mono Potassium Phosphate, and Plantex CSM+B from GreenLeafAquariums. I use the overdosing method, what is it called the EIS or IES or something method with weekly water changes. I also use Nature Aquarium Goods bottom stick fertilizers. 

Should I be gravel vacuuming? So much nastiness comes up that I am worried if I don't I will accidently pull up a plant and cause a huge nitrate spike and kill everybody.


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## Sarkazmo (Jun 22, 2009)

sean117Ply said:


> I see people recommend Flourish Excel for an algae problem all the time, what exactly does it do? It doesn't say anything about algae on the bottle? If anything you would think it promoted algae because it's good for the plants.


Excel is essentially liquid CO2, it's carbon in a form that can be absorbed by the plants readily. Here's the thing, algae needs very little in the way of nutrients and such to grow, it's a simple life form. Plants need those same nutrients but also need others as well to grow. So if the plants aren't utilizing (using up) those same nutrients that the algae needs then the algae grows and grows using up those available nutrients, snowballing, depriving the plants of those essential nutrients and eventually you'll end up with a tank of algae and dead plants. So if you feed the plants well, there's not enough left over or so little left over that you either have no algae or very little.

Sark


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## Sarkazmo (Jun 22, 2009)

Trio123 said:


> I tried the black out which temporarily works but the algae comes back soon after the lights go back on.
> 
> I also tried reducing the light but the problem with this is the that system is a closed loop. Without the second light it doesn't work. Could I maybe use a actinic or something? Ideas (that don't cost thousands ;p )?


I'm sorta confused by what you mean by a closed loop system?

You don't need to reduce the amount of light, JUST the amount of time that the lights are on. With a short llight period of 4 hours on then 4 hours off the algae cannot adapt to these short photo periods and just dies off. The plants and fish will adapt though. The tank will be getting as much light as it normally would, just at different times.

Sark


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Excel contains glutaraldehyde, which is an algaecide. Seachem doesn't mention this due to legal mumbo-jumbo.

From wiki- _A polymerized isomer of glutaraldehyde known as polycycloglutaracetal is a fertilizer for aquatic plants. It is claimed that it provides a bioavailable source of carbon for higher plants that is not available to algae. Though not marketed as such due to federal regulations, the biocidal effect of glutaraldehyde kills most algae at concentrations of 0.5 - 5.0 ppm. These levels are not harmful to most aquatic fauna and flora. Adverse reactions have been observed by some aquarists at these concentrations in some aquatic mosses, liverworts, and vascular plants._


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Sarkazmo said:


> I'm sorta confused by what you mean by a closed loop system?


What I meant was that if I take out one bulb the other one won't work because the electricity can't go around the entire circuit. Others had suggested I reduce the light by taking out one of the bulbs.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Ok I have changed my timers to have two 4 hour photo periods from 7am to 11am and 3pm-7pm. I will also try this Florish Excel, it really doesnt matter if it kills the Valisneria as it it just dieing off slowly anyway. 

Do you guys think I should replace the hang on the back filters with a canister filter so I dont lose so much CO2?

Should I be gravel vacuuming? Do you?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I have double dosed Excel for long periods and never had a problem with Val nana. Maybe a certain concentration or different species makes a difference. It's worth a shot anyway, it's not a problem for everyone.

HOBs are not always an issue either, especially if you keep the waterline high enough to allow the outlet to 'roll' across the surface rather than breaking it. If it's a biowheel that exposes water to air then a high water level probably doesn't help as much. Anyway, I've used HOB x 2 on an injected tank and everything was fine as long as the tank was topped off. I've seen the same issue happen with a canister where the low level allows the incoming water to fall and break the surface, or the flair nozzle was adjusted to high to create too much disturbance. Certain nozzle adjustments can make diffusion _too_ effective, as well, and end up sending fish to the surface.


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## Sarkazmo (Jun 22, 2009)

Trio, it sounds like your CO2 diffuser isn't diffusing properly if you have to crank the co2 to max to get any showing with your tester. The amount of CO2 you need is going to be affected by your water's PH and KH. I found a chart the other day... lemme see if I can find it again. Ahh, here it is: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

If you look at the chart, a low KH and high PH will require MUCH more CO2 than High KH/PH.

This could be a part of your CO2 problems.

Sark


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Ok so there were several problems. First, I dont regularly fill my tank to the top so that the HOB filters roll across the surface. So I'll do that. Next my KH is rather high. And third (and foremost) The pump wasn't pumping! I didnt realize because I have it tucked behind a log. The propellor needed to be cleaned. Thank you for pointed out all that stuff... I'll get some florish excel, keep my water level up, replace the rotalia (it is just too entangled in the plant to salvage it), and regularly dose all the fertilizers and see what happens. I will be sure to tell you guys if this thread bore some fruit. :fish:Thanks :fish:


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## Sarkazmo (Jun 22, 2009)

I certainly hope we've been able to help you. Such problems can be terribly frustrating and even drive people from the hobby and we certainly don't want to see that happen. Good luck and keep us up to date!

Sark

:thumbsup:


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

So I said I would tell you guys what happened. I have been trying for the past month to get the correct balance of everything. I got a better diffuser and the CO2 is correct. But that didnt seem to help. I started adding Florish Excel and more Nitrates because they were very low and my Phosphates were high. The helped some but now I have BBA exploding and the green hair algae slowing down but still present. The Nitrates are at 15 mg/l and the phosphates are at 0.1 ppm. 

I have new bulbs waiting for me to pick up in the store and I have no idea why I wasted mone on them... the tank is so ugly I dont even want to see it. And I have no idea what to test/change... it's hopeless  Maybe its just Leesburg's water.......


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## Preeths (Jan 29, 2008)

Have you tried black mollies? they are the best hair algae eaters. dont feed them any thing and they will eat all the hair algae in a matter of days.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Advice below, in point form:

Are you still using the EI method? If so, there is no need for testing nitrates and phosphates. What are you dosing and how often?

You have to be patient whenever you change anything. I know it is hard, but the system may take a while to adjust.

Most people have trouble with CO2... even when they think their CO2 is "correct". Move the drop checker around the tank and make sure that there are no spots with inadequate circulation.


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## o snap its eric (Jan 12, 2004)

Sarkazmo said:


> Excel is essentially liquid CO2, it's carbon in a form that can be absorbed by the plants readily. Here's the thing, algae needs very little in the way of nutrients and such to grow, it's a simple life form. Plants need those same nutrients but also need others as well to grow. So if the plants aren't utilizing (using up) those same nutrients that the algae needs then the algae grows and grows using up those available nutrients, snowballing, depriving the plants of those essential nutrients and eventually you'll end up with a tank of algae and dead plants. So if you feed the plants well, there's not enough left over or so little left over that you either have no algae or very little.
> 
> Sark


Doesn't that bump heads with the EI dosing method where one basically gives more than enough nutrients for all the plants to intake? I've been dosing EI for a while and the majority of the time my plants are algae free but every few months the tank likes to throw me a curve ball.


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## Old Salt (Aug 11, 2009)

have you tried or thought about putting some fast growing stems in the tank. Hornwort or Wisteria will suck up enough of the nutrients to combat your algae.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

jart said:


> Advice below, in point form:
> 
> Are you still using the EI method? If so, there is no need for testing nitrates and phosphates. What are you dosing and how often?
> 
> ...


I was dosing the EI method but I was told by a local fish store that hair algae is usually the result of low nitrate and high phosphates. I tested the tank and it did have very low nitrates and high phosphates so I reduced the phosphate and added more nitrates.

This weekend, I will move the drop checker around and see what happens.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Old Salt said:


> have you tried or thought about putting some fast growing stems in the tank. Hornwort or Wisteria will suck up enough of the nutrients to combat your algae.


I have Giant hygrophila and Rotalia which grows very fast but doesn't look healthy (black beard all around the edges, green hair algae laced through out, and yellow splotches all over the bottom leaves). I have been slowely tossing all the plants because they all keep getting algae covered. Haven't bothered buying anything, as it would also just get covered too.


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