# Cherry Shrimp Breeding Project



## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I have had recent success in a 5 gallon tall with a Betta, babies popping up everywhere with more pregnant females on the way. I have since learned about the grading system from "Cherry" to "Fire Red" with "Sakura" in the middle. Obviously I want the reddest shrimp possible, and I have grades all over the place from the store. 

Should I be removing the cherry grades? If a cherry breeds with a Sakura I could just end up with a bunch of cherry grade right? 

What if a Sakura breeds with a Fire Red can I get some fire red babies? I do see some dark red tiny ones and a pregnant one that is on the smaller side and also on the cherry side that I may want to remove. 

Even more important is, can a high grade Sakura or Fire Red give birth to lower grade shrimp even if I have dark red males?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Yes...remove less desirable shrimp from your breeding tank. They will degrade your population. And yes...high quality shrimp will still throw low quality babies. Cull them once they are large enough to tell that they won't be up to standards but before they are old enough to breed. Aim for sakura or better. As they breed, select the best of the best and keep them together to breed and over time you will have a nice highend group of breeding shrimp. Keep the culls in another tank or sell them or whatever. There's still plenty of people that like even the low grade cherries and you could always even use them for other projects. I ended up with some really nice chocolates from letting low grade cherries just do their own thing for a few months.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thank you!  very good information here! 

That is a bit discouraging that high grade will give birth to low grade but overtime I can see that becoming less of an issue. 

I am still trying to identify the grade at a young age it is hard because they have not fully colored up yet. 

Is it true calcium supplements will make them redder?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Well...I don't think it happens often once you get a good stable stock of high quality shrimp. But there's always going to be some stinkers produced. Just pull them so they don't breed with the nicer stock and spread their lower qualities into the gene pool. 

As far as calcium...it's definitely good for their shells and health. Some nutrients might bring out the color more but won't create a higher quality shrimp. That's based on the amount of color coverage on the shell. That's genetic. What's there is there. You might enhance what's there through diet, but you can only increase what's there through selective breeding.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

It's recommended to keep a "cull" tank, in case any of the lesser colored babies end up becoming more colored as adults.

I'm kind of doing a similar thing. There is the "main tank", aka the "cull" tank (well, main tank is being broken down, so everything in a temp tank), then my breeding tank (where-in I have all the nicer colored shrimp, or just some saddled females). All the males in the tank are really nice reds, where-as the females are, for the most part, not as nice looking... so my hope is to get nicer colored offspring from the males, then cull the lesser desired females and offspring into the main tank. 


The current setup is only 3 months old though, so still in the beginning stages.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

So in other words, I can get a Sakura from a cherry mix it just may not be as common as getting a cherry out of a Sakura mix??

I can use my grandmothers 5 gallon planted tank as this "cull orgy" thing, and then use my planted 5 gallon tall as my breeding tank. 

How long after I start seeing them will they begin breeding?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Basically you throw a bunch of cherries together and wait for them to breed. Once they are old enough you can grade them, take out the less attractive ones and leave the nicer ones. Keep doing this until you get nicer and nicer shrimp. Eventually, you'll have only really nice shrimp. Once they breed and stabilize, it won't be common for them to throw low grade babies. It takes 4-6 months for a female to mature enough to breed. A male probably half as long. 

Honestly, unless you just want to do this for fun to produce your own line of sakura/fire red/PFR shrimp...I'd just pony up the money and but some high end shrimp and breed them. You can easily sell the babies and make your money back. Considering the time it takes a female to mature...you could be looking at years to go from low grade to high grade shrimp.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Pretty much.... if you really wanted to put the time and effort into it. Of course, it's recommended to throw in new shrimp every now and then for new genes, and if you get new shrimp, you can always get higher grade shrimp to breed into your own shrimp.


I can get low grade cherries (that can color up nicely, but still, cherries) for $1 (or less) from a local breeder. Mid grade or low grade sakuras I can get for $5 from the LFS. Mid-High grade sakura/low grade fire reds I can get for $4 from the Petco's.


So the majority of my females are the $1 ones, where-as the majority of the males are the $4 shrimp. (cause for whatever reason, none of the females are of the same grade as the males are at Petco... and it's the only place I can get such "high grade" male shrimp locally! that is, if I'm lucky enough to find them!)


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I am doing this mainly for fun, I have very large high grade females ready to breed but I was worried about how long I can allow the babies to grow before they mess up my genepool. 

I buy all mine from Petco @ $3.99 reguardless of grade, but lately they have had some very high grade Sakuras. 

This will be fun  I setup a 1 gallon Betta tank specifically for the lowest grade shrimp as I move them to friends tanks. So now I have 3 tanks for this project.

Just thought I would ask this here, crystal shrimp seem to like softer water so can I keep them together? Will cherry shrimp breed with striped/banded crystal shrimp? Not like I can find them but I eventually might, preferably mostly red with 25% white such as red wine shrimp.


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

Caridina and Neocaridina cannot interbreed so no worries on that front. The real concern is whether your Cherries will take the pH/gH requirements well.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I had cherries in CRS suitable water before and they survived but did not like it. Several months and they were just meh...and no breeding. I eventually moved them to a more standard neo parameters and within a few days I saddled females.


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## Lonestarbandit (Feb 7, 2013)

Ive had quite a few lovely nice grade Sukura or so grade Cherries from petco but so far the buggers won't breed.
Its getting annoying lol. The Amanos try, the ghosts do and the cherries don't..... sigh......


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

So I will not mix the shrimp then  

My cherries will not STOP breeding lol I have so many babies it is crazy with more pregnant females. The only thing is I am not sure you can see if high grade non-transparent females are pregnant or not, at least I can't so none of my high grades appear pregnant to me.


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## Lonestarbandit (Feb 7, 2013)

Yes I am sure if I could only get going exponentially the colony would balloon lol. Its just the getting going.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

What do you think about keeping shrimp in one of these 1/2 gallon Marina tanks? They are $12-$15 shipped, and they hang on the wall if you find some studs of course. I would probably just use Anubias, Java Moss, Coonstail, and floaters. It matches my 5 gallon Marineland Contour tank that I would be pulling undesirable shrimp from and putting them in this temporarily. Does not come with a filter though so I would need to use a Whisper 3i


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I'm not a big fan of tanks smaller than 10 gallons, personally, and I find even those on the small side. You may want to get a bigger tank anyway because once a colony of shrimp gets well established, they'll breed like rabbits! Unless you plan on selling the offspring to other local shrimp enthusiasts or taking them to a pet store for credit, thus keeping numbers low.


The best filters for shrimp are sponge filters. There are several different styles, but the ones I'm speaking of use an air pump to create flow through the sponge, thus filtering water.


This style (there is single and dual) are popular with many shrimp keepers.
https://www.amazon.com/XY-2831-Sponge-Filter-Aquarium-10-gallon/dp/B0056XVF82


Although there are these sponge filters, too. Different sizes and thickness. Can even get some designed for the corner of a tank.
Kw E-Jet Sponge Filter - Kw E-Jet Sponge Filter Importer, Manufacturer, Service Provider, Distributor, Supplier, Trading Company, Delhi, India


Or another option, the HMF Filter. It's also a sponge, either goes across the aquarium on one end, or in the corner. Also works with air.



Sponge filters are recommended for shrimp because it serves two purposes. One, baby shrimp can't get sucked up into the filter. Two, it' provides an excellent place to graze for food!


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I agree that sponge filters are best...however...if it's a display tank and you don't want a huge ugly sponge in there...you can also get sponge pre-filters that slip over your HOB/canister filter intake that serve the same purpose though to less effect. At least as far as providing a grazing area. You can also check out one of the stainless steel mesh pre-filters too. Not so much a filter as it is a screen to keep shrimp from getting into your filter.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I ended up buying it anyway, because I do not plan on necessarily using it to breed them. I am only using it to temporarily house shrimp for a few weeks as I spot undesirable ones, until I am ready to give them away or sell them in a lot together they can stay in the 0.5G

I found a picture of someone who used the same tank as a pico shrimp tank, although these shrimp are likely spending their entire life in 0.5G which I do not agree with. I understand how a sponge filter would be best for grazing, and I do not have much room. Since the cover has no opening for something like a Whisper 3i maybe a tiny sponge filter would be best, they need oxygen anyway so I may just do that...center it in the back hiding behind a centered plant. The only thing I will leave in the tank all the time is 1 horned Nerite snail.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

In my high grade tank I have had this odd female that I thought just had some sort of backline defect, but I swear it is spreading and I am worried it could be a fungus or disease. I have some with white lines down their back (sharp line edges) and I have others with no line at all just all red (my fav) but this one looks bad. What do you think?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Can you catch her...maybe see if you can net her and try to wipe it off. If it's a growth or fungus...I'd think it would come off. If it did, QT or euthanize her immediately. Don't put her back in the tank with the others.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

That would be so hard to wipe her back, I will see what I can do. Has anyone seen this before?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I'd net her and use a q-tip. Just a quick swipe and see if anything comes off. I've had plenty of shrimp with a racing stripe...happens as shrimp age it seems. But like you said, they have a defined line.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

The PFR line, is to my knowledge, all "racing stripe". That is, they have been bred to the point that the racing stripe covers the entire body. This gives them a very opaque, or "painted" look.


One picture as reference...

http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-i8opz/products/100/images/404/PFR__79187.1415864425.1280.1280.jpg?c=2




I'm not really a fan of PFR, nor the racing stripe. Even purchased a nicely colored red male that developed the racing stripe. No doubt, he's from the PFR line! So I've separated him into another tank... I prefer the nicely colored fire reds or bloody mary's myself.... don't have any bloody mary though...


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Zoidburg said:


> The PFR line, is to my knowledge, all "racing stripe". That is, they have been bred to the point that the racing stripe covers the entire body. This gives them a very opaque, or "painted" look.
> 
> 
> One picture as reference...
> ...


Good to know! Now I look around I have some with this stripe developing but in a triangle shape, the lines move outward at the tip of their scales. I also have some with no line at all just all red, they are my favorite and my goal in breeding.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Seems like we have the same goal!


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Does anyone use mineral rocks with RCS? Or only crystals? 

eBay has mineral rocks and mineral "balls" I am not sure what to add for them. Any suggestions?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I know some have used them in their tanks even for RCS. I've never tried it...but perhaps this time around I might...if I can get my hands on some shrimp. Not sure what the rocks/balls do to the water so you might want to keep an eye on that to make sure the minerals don't make your water parameters go out of whack.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I feel as if the mineral balls are unnecessary as long as you have a proper remineralizer for shrimp, if one is necessary. (i.e. using either RO water or soft water would result in needing a remineralizer)

Did get a few from a breeder and was using them, but didn't have enough for the size tanks, and I don't really know if they helped or not. Right now, I don't know where they are at! LOL All I do know is that they were not enough for our soft water, and we needed a remineralizer.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

They aren't for the water...the shrimp eat them. Graze off of them and ingest the minerals. Similar to adding cuddle bone to the tank for calcium. You still have to remineralize the water if you use RO water or don't have the proper GH/KH.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I haven't seen any shrimp graze off of the mineral balls....


And unless you have plenty of mineral balls, I'm not really sure they do much for the water at all. I could be wrong, though! Just, they don't break down very quickly, so I don't know that they'd be very helpful, especially if the person does frequent water changes.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

There's a lot of debate as to whether they really help or not. Many think they don't and have done comparisons with and without and noticed no difference in shrimp tanks without compared to tanks with. IMO...if your shrimp are getting a good diet and you are using a quality remineralizer or you have good tap water...save the money. Spend it on better food or more shrimp or keep it in your pocket...lol


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Nubster said:


> They aren't for the water...the shrimp eat them. Graze off of them and ingest the minerals. Similar to adding cuddle bone to the tank for calcium. You still have to remineralize the water if you use RO water or don't have the proper GH/KH.


Exactly. I have no issue with my RCS, and I am not trying to feed them mineral rocks as a primary food just as an occasional supplement.


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

The original PFR didn't have the racing stripe at all. The ones sold nowadays have been polluted with it and it's now common to see "PFR" grade with racing stripes. As far as the original classification goes, they wouldn't qualify.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

What does PFR stand for?

They would not qualify for what?


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

Painted Fire Red


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I thought the PFR's were bred to the point that the stripe encompasses the entire body??? Thus the reason they look, well, painted?


So a PFR with a racing stripe technically wouldn't be a PFR then? But rather a high grade sakura?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

They look painted but painted with a nice deep red. Basically a PFR is a RCS that has 100% red coverage on the shell including the legs. It was once the highest grade until the Bloody Mary came along.

This is a PFR I had once...


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## greenteam (Feb 8, 2012)

Like others have mention the racing stripe is normal part of the Cherry shrimp. 

Mineral Balls are said to release trace minerals into the water and help improve their health. Similar products are Mineral stones that are said to provide similar effect. Regardless whether they do or don't is not a big deal when dealing with Cherry shrimp, but when people make the leap to more high end shrimp like Pintos, Pure Lines, etc.. then it becomes a small investment to assure you did the best you could to provide the most ideal environment for the shrimp. 

The only things I truly would say make the most beneficial impact in any tank is A. Leaf litter B. Diftwood C. Moss. Some of the best moss I find for keeping them happy is basic java moss. I feed 2 times per week and the rest of the time the shrimp survive just find off biofilm. 

Here is some of the tanks I keep super basic and colonies exploded in.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I was at the LFS looking at their shrimp tank, which 95% of the time only has cherry shrimps. I noticed these ugly orange shrimps I thought were just extremely low grade cherries. The clerk tells me they are orange bee shrimp, but I thought bee shrimp were crystal shrimp? These look way more like orange cherries than crystal shrimp. Also if you look in the very front there is a cherry red with a clearish white stripe, they are also stocking "striped cherries" which I did not even know existed! I thought if you wanted stripes you have to graduate to crystals. 

On another note as I look the tags over I notice lots of tags for crystal shrimp in the same tank (they never have any ever). Then I thought back to our convo here about not mixing cherries with crystals but they claim they have no problem with it?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Bee shrimp are, to a degree, crystal shrimp. If I understood it correctly, the name "crystal shrimp" was trade-marked, so if you didn't have anything that looked like a crystal shrimp, it was called a bee shrimp. There are now hybrids between crystal/bee shrimp and tiger shrimp.


The striped cherry you see is a "rili" shrimp. They come in red, orange, blue/carbon, and if you're lucky enough to find them, sometimes green and yellow, too.


Cherry shrimp are very hardy and can stand a wide range of parameters as long as the GH is within the correct range. Crystal shrimp on the other hand prefer a specific pH range to breed in. They may live in higher pH, but wont necessarily breed.


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## greenteam (Feb 8, 2012)

The true Caridina cantonensis sp. "Orange Bee" look like Tiger shrimp (will add photo 2nd photo). http://www.planetinverts.com/Orange Bee Shrimp.html

They look like Yellow Neocaridina to me specially with that racing stripe down the back(The picture of the ones that look like yours 1st photo). Since they seem to be in inert substrate giving me the impression that it's most likely a Neo species.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Wow the original orange bee looks mean as hell! 

You are right they looks much like Yellow Card.

This is my breeding project tank, they seem to have no problem in here. Sourcing some nice red males is not easy since they are so small, but I have two males in here and these are the best I have found yet for males.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Looks like some super tigers I once had....


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

A local Petco has some orange bees... They look the same as the ones at your store, Teebo.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Funny you say that, this photo was taken at PetCo in Fitchburg/Leominster, MA.

Regarding the undefined racing stripe I have made a relation between moulting/old age. They are always the largest ones that have this undefined line, and they often die a few weeks later I think from old age. When they molt I think the separation begins along the racing stripe and works down from there, the undefined lines just may be the old shell being separated from the body and as they get old they have a hard time keeping it attached along their back. I had a few develope a white slit in the center as if they were trying to molt, but their body under was not red and they soon died.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Leave it to Petco and their supplies for sending out shrimp with generic names.... that said, it still wouldn't surprise me if they are indeed Caridinas and not Neocaridinas.


You're last post is kind of confusing me though.....


This is a photo showing molting problems
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/attachments/attachment-php-attachmentid-95948-d-1337633255-jpg.6676/



And a video of a shrimp molting - forewarning, there is music! Might be annoying...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM3EcGbZ_8g




Another video, also with music, and a less graceful shrimp...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNkbE1B8jS4


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

They look like neocards to me; I've never seen a caridina with a racing stripe. If they're caridina they might be orange sunkist or something like that.


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

One of the 6 RCS I bought had this racing strip, which was berried. Now I have lot of baby shrimps. Hopefully I can start a NASCAR event with all this Racing Car Shrimps...lol


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Wow! That [censored][censored][censored][censored]e slit was very deceiving as to what is underneath! Maybe my shrimps are having a hard time moulting or something because they develope that white slit then die before they molt. This never used to be a problem, and I also add traces of Iodide to my tanks (controversially for moulting).

PS - This forum censors the color that starts with 'W' ......


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I scanned back through but didn't see it...might have missed them but what are your water parameters? Molting is often times due to improper water parameters. Too high or too low GH/KH.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

My gH is around 75ppm and the kH is usually around 20-35ppm


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Higher GH would be ideal.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Best way to go about this? My tap water is 70ppm gH & 50ppm kH. The Carbonate must be getting "eaten up" in my tank since it is lower than topoff water?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Ideally, you want a dGH of 6-8. My tap is about 3 dGH, which equals about 54 ppm.


The best way to "fix" this is to get a shrimp remineralizer. There's SL-Aqua Blue Wizard, Shrimp Nature GH, Shirakura Liquid Mineral, Salty Shrimp, Lowkeys GH Mineral Balance, Tantora Mineral Liquid GH+, etc.


You only need one product, but there is a choice between powder form (which doesn't always dissolve well in water...) or a liquid form that easily dissolves.


I can't tell you which product is best, since I went the "lazy" route and got a general remineralizer rather than a shrimp remineralizer, and not exactly happy with the product now... but it is MUCH BETTER than not using one at all! Higher survival rates with shrimp, especially offspring!

I also chose to switch to RO water to remineralize. You don't have to, you can remineralize your tap water.



A local shrimp breeder is using tap water as well, with similar/same water as what I'm on, and does 25% or so weekly water changes. Her tank parameters, at least in her breeding tank, are largely different! What I tested was about 7.3 pH, .25 ammonia, 0 nitrites, about 30 nitrates. dKH was 5 and dGH at 6 with 10+ phosphates. I was kind of shocked! She doesn't add anything extra to the tank although she also keeps fish in there and the driftwood leaches craploads of tannins, even though it's been in there for months, if not years? And she might overfeed some, too... somehow though, all her shrimp excessively reproduce.

Our tap is generally about 7.2 pH, with about 3 dKH and dGH in comparison.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

SaltyShrimp GH/KH+ is awesome. It will take RO water to the proper level and only be at around 150 TDS which is great. Means that it's a clean product. I've used other stuff that the same GH/KH got my TDS well above 300.


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

*Is RO mineralized water necessary*

Please help me, I have linked the thread.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...-mineralized-water-necessary.html#post9488594


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

Watercrayfish it would be easier to answer your questions if you could make your own thread. We'll get a lot of cross-talk otherwise and it helps no one.
Are you absolutely sure that your ammonia is at 0? I've had mystery deaths I stopped with a combination of cuttlebone and bottled bacteria.
If it's bad molting then it would be a good idea to add a little shrimp remineralizer. Salty Shrimp is recommended for most but it doesn't really matter if you're supplementing for neos.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Yukiharu said:


> They look like neocards to me; I've never seen a caridina with a racing stripe. If they're caridina they might be orange sunkist or something like that.


The caridinas (usually a hybrid of OEBT x TB bred back to TB) have the "racing stripe" if they are "bred" for it... such as skunk pintos.

image_zpsdda4c7f8.jpg Photo by Betta_lover | Photobucket

http://i.imgur.com/LSrz397.jpg
Pinto German Shrimps - Imgur

http://garnelenfee.de/Skunk/IMG_6552.jpg
Taiwan Bee Skunk Pinto

http://www.hedefinternet.com/akv/Skunk-pinto.jpg



They are definitly not neos! 


I haven't seen any orange or yellow neos with the coloration of the supposed "orange bees".


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## greenteam (Feb 8, 2012)

:laugh2: If indeed they are Caridinas possibly some Golden Bee or Snow White Bee then they will just die in neutral PH. If they do survive their young certainly wont.



Zoidburg said:


> The caridinas (usually a hybrid of OEBT x TB bred back to TB) have the "racing stripe" if they are "bred" for it... such as skunk pintos.
> 
> image_zpsdda4c7f8.jpg Photo by Betta_lover | Photobucket
> 
> ...


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Is there a liquid form comparable to SaltyShrimp GH/KH? eBay sells their product for $20 @ 85G

Do you let them scratch off the cuttlebone themself or grind it into powder? Also does the cuttlebone affect both GH & KH or just one?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

There are at least 3 or 4 liquid remineralizers, I think? I listed a few already.


I just put cuttlebone in whole... and I don't know if it effects the water chemistry or not. I would imagine it does, over time, but I've never tested it to see.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Cuttlebone is calcium. Just put a piece in the tank and the shrimp munch on it. That's the idea anyways. Many report that they never see the shrimp do anything with it. Maybe it's a matter of the shrimp knowing what they need and if they don't need the calcium...they won't bother? I don't know. I don't think it does much or anything to the water though. 

Liquid remineralizer...no experience with it. It will cost more but that's the price for convenience. I've never had a problem with the powder. Once you figure out how much you need to reach a specific parameter...it's super easy. You can determine by weight and/or TDS how much you need to hit your goal GH/KH. Then you won't have to test the water everytime you mix. Just add remineralizer until you reach the known TDS. Easy peasy. Works the same with liquid too. Add until you hit your TDS. You just don't get as much for the money. My container of SaltyShrimp treats 1100 gallons of water. For my one tank...that will last me about 21 years. Most of the liquids seem to treat a couple hundred gallons or so for the same price...so it's still a lot and for one small tank probably several years worth of treatment...so it all depends on how much water you'll be treating per week. One small tank...yeah, liquid isn't a bad way to go. A large tank or several small tanks...I'd probably opt for powder because it will be much cheaper over the long run.


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

Cuttlebone very slowly raises gh/kh so it's more of a safeguard than anything else. I just break off a piece and throw it in.
I also have a bottle of Fluval Shrimp Mineral Supplement but I don't know if it's even sold anymore.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I only have a 5 gallon shrimp tank to worry about, I do 10-15% weekly water changes so I am only mixing a gallon of top off water that will last me the entire week. All my ferts are Seachem liquids and 500ml bottles last me a very long time, so long in fact I store all my ferts in the refrigerator and use small travel bottles near my tank that I replenish every few months with refrigerated ferts. 

Sorry for a repeat question, I know you listed a few but if SaltyShrimp is the best, which of your listed liquid products is considered "the best liquid product" was my question or are all your listed liquids equal?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

The one most recommended is the SL Aqua Blue Wizard when it comes to liquid remineralizers.



I think the main thing is is that it comes down to a preference.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Sucks they are all so expensive to try, powder or liquid. I started using Kent's RO Right and it's junk. So don't look at that one. It's dirty. Raised my TDS up a lot to hit the GH/KH numbers I wanted. It might be good for fish but I didn't like it for my shrimp. After lots of reading, for a powder it was SaltyShrimp hands down being the highest recommended. It gets my GH/KH to the same number with half the TDS as the Kents. If some of the companies would give or sell samples...enough for a few gallons...that would be sweet. Who knows...maybe they would if asked. I mean I guess it's not a huge deal...but still nice to try a few products before you dive in to one. While they aren't _that_ expensive, it would just suck to buy years worth of product to find out quickly it wasn't working for you the way you want and then it just goes to waste. Unless you sell it or RAOK it off to someone else to try.


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

Yukiharu said:


> Cuttlebone very slowly raises gh/kh so it's more of a safeguard than anything else. I just break off a piece and throw it in.
> I also have a bottle of Fluval Shrimp Mineral Supplement but I don't know if it's even sold anymore.


I tried a little bit of TUMS Tablet and Shrimps went nuts over it. Just a quarter of the tablet, it kind of clouds the water.
The nerite snails also was munching on it.


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

Nice idea. You can also use crushed eggshells.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Looking at SL Aqua Blue Wizard - a 250ml bottle treats more than an 85G container of SaltyShrimp, and the SaltyShrimp costs a little more @ $22 shipped for 85G. 

The SL Aqua Blue Wizard lists things such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. Where the SaltyShrimp makes no reference to its composition! I am curious on percentage differences. 

So if I am using a mineralizer there should be no need for cuttlebone right??



Watercrayfish said:


> I tried a little bit of TUMS Tablet and Shrimps went nuts over it. Just a quarter of the tablet, it kind of clouds the water.
> The nerite snails also was munching on it.


Calcium Carbonate may be good for shrimps but what about the side effects of PH/Other swings?


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

Teebo said:


> Calcium Carbonate may be good for shrimps but what about the side effects of PH/Other swings?


I didn't noticed any swing, the quantity I am adding is very minute to cause a swing I believe.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Teebo said:


> Looking at SL Aqua Blue Wizard - a 250ml bottle treats more than an 85G container of SaltyShrimp, and the SaltyShrimp costs a little more @ $22 shipped for 85G.
> 
> The SL Aqua Blue Wizard lists things such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. Where the SaltyShrimp makes no reference to its composition! I am curious on percentage differences.
> 
> ...


You may not need it anyways. I've never used it and had perfectly healthy shrimp. Feed them quality food and you won't have issues. As far as SaltyShrimp vs. the liquid...again...price vs. convenience. I don't remember what I paid for my container, it wasn't that much, but it treats 1100+ gallons of water. In all likelihood, with one tank or if I add my other tank...I'll never have to buy remineralizer again. Or at least not for 10+ years.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Well I need SOMETHING, I have random RCS that die big and small lately, I loose one almost every week. I feed them quality food too. 

If the liquid is cheaper than why not choose convenience AND price...?

SaltyShrimp 85 grams for $22 = 112 gallons

SL Aqua Blue Wizard 250ml for *$18 = 250 gallons*

See my point now? Cost of convenience has no role in this.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

My bottle of SL Aqua Blue Wizard came in today, not a single word of English on the bottle haha. 

This is going to take some dialing in to understand this solution, my GH/KH are low or all but nonexistent. So I gave my 5 gallon 1 pump of the solution and I will test it tomorrow to see where it brought my GH/KH levels to. Once I hit my target ranges, I will need to find out how much I need to add weekly with my water changes to maintain my levels without them slowly rising off the chart. It must not be that big of a deal since it is not measured in ML the way Seachem products are, it is rather measured by the pump.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Teebo said:


> Well I need SOMETHING, I have random RCS that die big and small lately, I loose one almost every week. I feed them quality food too.
> 
> If the liquid is cheaper than why not choose convenience AND price...?
> 
> ...


I paid like $28 for my SaltyShrimp and it does 4200 liters or 1100 gallons. So yeah...it does have a role. Especially if you have more than one or two tanks. I agree...one small tank, $18 for 250 gallons of treatment isn't bad. A small tank with a gallon per week or every two weeks water change...you're looking a a couple years or more for $18. But like I said...for less than twice the price...with my one tank...I'm good for probably 15 years. When I bought it...I had like 6 shrimp tanks going so a bottle if liquid mineralizer that only did 250 gallons just wouldn't cut it.

Bump:


Teebo said:


> My bottle of SL Aqua Blue Wizard came in today, not a single word of English on the bottle haha.
> 
> This is going to take some dialing in to understand this solution, my GH/KH are low or all but nonexistent. So I gave my 5 gallon 1 pump of the solution and I will test it tomorrow to see where it brought my GH/KH levels to. Once I hit my target ranges, I will need to find out how much I need to add weekly with my water changes to maintain my levels without them slowly rising off the chart. It must not be that big of a deal since it is not measured in ML the way Seachem products are, it is rather measured by the pump.


1 pump is 5 GH in a gallon of water. Keep in mind...if using RO water...the Blue Wizard doesn't raise KH so if you don't have a buffering substrate...you'll need to add something to raise the KH to maintain pH. Otherwise you'll get swings that can wipe out your shrimp.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Nubster said:


> I paid like $28 for my SaltyShrimp and it does 4200 liters or 1100 gallons. So yeah...it does have a role. Especially if you have more than one or two tanks. I agree...one small tank, $18 for 250 gallons of treatment isn't bad. A small tank with a gallon per week or every two weeks water change...you're looking a a couple years or more for $18. But like I said...for less than twice the price...with my one tank...I'm good for probably 15 years. When I bought it...I had like 6 shrimp tanks going so a bottle if liquid mineralizer that only did 250 gallons just wouldn't cut it.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> 1 pump is 5 GH in a gallon of water. Keep in mind...if using RO water...the Blue Wizard doesn't raise KH so if you don't have a buffering substrate...you'll need to add something to raise the KH to maintain pH. Otherwise you'll get swings that can wipe out your shrimp.


Touche' on the pricing. 

I use tap water, and damn I should have gone with the SaltyShrimp to help with my KH! My substrate is not a buffering type just planted tank black gravel from the LFS. My alkalinity was all but 0 until I added some wood, then it went up but after a while it has started to come back down to almost nothing.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

You can use baking soda to increase KH but it will also affect the pH driving it up. Not sure how much it will make it go up...I guess you could play around with some water and see.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I am really kicking myself for not buying the SaltyShrimp, I needed the KH safely. I may just see if this BlueWizard solves my shrimp issues with losses and only worry about KH if there is a problem still. 

I ordered the BlueWizard from DiscoBee, and they included 2 free samples of other products. Aqua Eden Bio Protein Powder, which I assume is much more of a crystal shrimp thing? Maybe no harm in using it with my RCS though until it is gone? The other sample is L'BEE Powba'BEE which seems more like something I could benefit from, website states it is food for juvenile shrimp with a full set of vegetable protein, complex vitamins, minerals, proteins and trace elements with yeast composed of yeast, shellfish, vegetable by-products and algae.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Looks like the Bio Powder is a type of food. Can be fed to any shrimp.
https://www.discobee.com/collections/aquaeden/products/aqua-eden-bio-protein-powder

And yes, the Powba'Bee does appear to be food for juveniles!



Looks like you got a good mix! And Discobee actually recommends the Blue Wizard, so I'd say to stick with that and try it out! No harm!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Nubster said:


> You can use baking soda to increase KH but it will also affect the pH driving it up. Not sure how much it will make it go up...I guess you could play around with some water and see.


Doesn't increasing KH in general drive the pH up? I don't think any product, no matter how fancy, will let you avoid that...


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Why do shrimp like protein? I thought that was a carnivore thing, algae in my tank they eat does not contain protein does it? Wait, biofilm on the water surface is protein right?

I will feed them a mix of both samples. Good company, even included a free DiscoBee sticker.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Some algae contains a lot of protein actually. Not sure about the stuff that grows in our tanks but spirulina for one is a great protein source...even for us. I bought a tub of it off Amazon and when I make my own food...I make sure to add a couple tablespoons of spirulina to the mix for a nice protein kick. Shrimp are scavengers...so really they eat anything but since they are in a captive environment...it's up to us to provide them with a balanced diet. In nature I'd guess that they know what they need at any given time and can move along and eat according to their needs. But in a tank...they can't do that unless we give them the options.


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

Nubster said:


> Some algae contains a lot of protein actually. Not sure about the stuff that grows in our tanks but spirulina for one is a great protein source...even for us. I bought a tub of it off Amazon and when I make my own food...I make sure to add a couple tablespoons of spirulina to the mix for a nice protein kick. Shrimp are scavengers...so really they eat anything but since they are in a captive environment...it's up to us to provide them with a balanced diet. In nature I'd guess that they know what they need at any given time and can move along and eat according to their needs. But in a tank...they can't do that unless we give them the options.


Do you feed spirulina powder to shrimp? Never tried its too messy.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I mix it in with my homemade food. I get several different organic babyfoods...various veggies like peas, carrots, sweet potatoes, squash, green beans, greens...whatever I can find...mix them all together then add in the spirulina powder. Enough to thicken up the mix. I spread it out on some parchment paper and dehydrate it. Break it into chunks and feed the shrimp. They love it and it gives them a pretty good variety of food. Store the food in a ziplock in the fridge. Lasts forever.

I suppose if you wanted ...you could feed just the powder. Would probably be awesome for babies. But like you said...it's so powdery I'd think it could get pretty messy. Maybe take a tiny bit of powder and mix with a drop or two of water to make a thick paste and drop that in the tank. It would sink and then I guess either sit there for the shrimp to find or kinda break apart and spread throughout the tank with the flow of the water. Either way should be good. Lets the shrimp scavenge like they are meant to do. I've never tried that though.


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

I bought spirulana to prepare my own gel food. But I haven't took that leap yet. 

I did drop some powder for the baby shrimp, no idea whether it did any good though. Probably this weekend I may make my own.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I mixed the powders in a turkey baster and shot it over them with my pump off, so that it all settles to the bottom. Makes the water very cloudy


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

The water will clear up. I know, it seems contradictory, but it helps!


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## chappy6107 (Aug 2, 2016)

Nubster said:


> I mix it in with my homemade food. I get several different organic babyfoods...various veggies like peas, carrots, sweet potatoes, squash, green beans, greens...whatever I can find...mix them all together then add in the spirulina powder. Enough to thicken up the mix. I spread it out on some parchment paper and dehydrate it. Break it into chunks and feed the shrimp. They love it and it gives them a pretty good variety of food. Store the food in a ziplock in the fridge. Lasts forever.



How do you dehydrate? Do you use a dehydrator? How crispy do you get it, lol sounds funny but depending on what gets dried out in these machines they can get pretty hard.

Bump: does seachems equilibrium have what is needed to raise KH?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Yeah...dehydrator. And I dried it until it's pretty hard. Maybe just slightly chewy in texture. Once it get pretty set, I'll score it in tiny squares so when it's done it's easy to break into small bits. Works great for me. I'll probably buy the stuff to make a batch this weekend. I'll take some pics and do a mini tutorial for anyone that might be interested...not that there's much to it. Buy food. Mix. Dry. Feed...lol


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## chappy6107 (Aug 2, 2016)

Nubster said:


> Yeah...dehydrator. And I dried it until it's pretty hard. Maybe just slightly chewy in texture. Once it get pretty set, I'll score it in tiny squares so when it's done it's easy to break into small bits. Works great for me. I'll probably buy the stuff to make a batch this weekend. I'll take some pics and do a mini tutorial for anyone that might be interested...not that there's much to it. Buy food. Mix. Dry. Feed...lol



Yes I would def. be interested to read your tutorial. disregard the post about this same thing in the other thread, I had not read this one yet to see that you will be doing a tutorial. Greatly appreciated.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Nubster said:


> Yeah...dehydrator. And I dried it until it's pretty hard. Maybe just slightly chewy in texture. Once it get pretty set, I'll score it in tiny squares so when it's done it's easy to break into small bits. Works great for me. I'll probably buy the stuff to make a batch this weekend. I'll take some pics and do a mini tutorial for anyone that might be interested...not that there's much to it. Buy food. Mix. Dry. Feed...lol


I would also be interested in reading it, I may even make up some batches and sell it. I have been selling my gelatin food on eBay, where people are lazy there is a market.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I have been mixing this Powda'Bee powder with Protein powder and feeding my shrimp with a turkey baster. I would like to buy powder form food, can anyone recommend me an all-in-one powdered food for my RCS I can feed with my turkey baster? I leave the pump off for a little while after I feed it and they go nuts for it.


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