# Do I have enought light for Glosso?



## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

I've been trying to grow a carpet of glossostigma elatinoides for a few weeks now, but most of the plants just grow vertically. Some of them look like they are beginning to try to grow horizontally, but it doesn't seem to be able to want to stay horizontal. I have a CurrentUSA Nova Extreme T5HO 2x39W fixture 4'' about the tank (~18'' from substrate). I have Coralife 6700k and Colormax tubes, brand new. If it turns out I don't have enough light for glosso, I am considering HC instead, but I figured I'd check and see first. I am using EI dosing macros and micros, 10hr photo period, CO2 w/ drop checker on yellow-green. The glosso is not shaded at all. Is it the lighting or could it be something else preventing it from growing horizontally?


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## Pooch (May 2, 2011)

If find that if my gloss does not get enough CO2, it turns leggy in a hurry. I am able to get carpeting glosso using a 4x32w T8 shoplight over a 75g. (read: you have more then adequate light.)

Your drop checkers may show 'optimum', but do some things to verify this; such as replace the 4dh fluid, reagent, cleaning. Also, consider how co2 is diffused and _spread_ around in the tank... Is it getting to all areas in your tank..? I found that I got great co2 diffusion via a Rex Grigg-style reactor, but the flow did not reach the floor of the tank; hence the glosso was starved for co2 and was leggy. I put a drop checker very low, nearly right on top of the glosso, and low and behold, the color showed a darker green that what it was indicating higher up in the water column. I adjusted my canister outflow and a powerhead to create greater flow near the floor of the tank. Now the glosso is carpeting very well....

Good luck!


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

Pooch said:


> If find that if my gloss does not get enough CO2, it turns leggy in a hurry. I am able to get carpeting glosso using a 4x32w T8 shoplight over a 75g. (read: you have more then adequate light.)
> 
> Your drop checkers may show 'optimum', but do some things to verify this; such as replace the 4dh fluid, reagent, cleaning. Also, consider how co2 is diffused and _spread_ around in the tank... Is it getting to all areas in your tank..? I found that I got great co2 diffusion via a Rex Grigg-style reactor, but the flow did not reach the floor of the tank; hence the glosso was starved for co2 and was leggy. I put a drop checker very low, nearly right on top of the glosso, and low and behold, the color showed a darker green that what it was indicating higher up in the water column. I adjusted my canister outflow and a powerhead to create greater flow near the floor of the tank. Now the glosso is carpeting very well....
> 
> Good luck!


I turned up my CO2 until my fish started showing signs of stress, then turned it down slightly, so I feel pretty confident that my Co2 levels are as high as they can safely be. I have 2 Aquaclear 30 HOB filters that I'm running right now, each rated for 150gph as well as a Koralia 425gph circulation pump. I have the diffuser located under one of the filter intakes. All the plants in my tank gently sway in the current, including the glosso, so I believe the circulation is pretty good. I just bought a Fluval 306 that will be replacing the Aquaclear 30s and it should come in next week. Thanks for the info! It's nice to know that I do have enough light.  I will try moving the drop checker around and I'll recheck my dosing to make sure I'm adding enough of everything. I'll keep trying and hopefully I'll figure it out. From all the reading I've done, it appears growing carpets of glosso is an art form that takes know how and practice. Hopefully it will start carpeting nicely before too long.


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## Pooch (May 2, 2011)

AUvet14 said:


> From all the reading I've done, it appears growing carpets of glosso is an art form that takes know how and practice. Hopefully it will start carpeting nicely before too long.


....and patience.

I'm curious to see if switching over to a canister will help your situation. I understand that your co2 levels appear 'good' from multiple indicators (fish, D/C), but I just have some suspicions about the diffuser being placed under the intake of the HOB. 

What size tank is this? 

If your tank is larger, I'd look into a Grigg-style external reactor plumbed into the canister...

Keep us posted.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

It's a 30 gallon. 36''x12''x16''. I will need to get a 2nd reactor so I can have one to use when I'm cleaning the other. I considered getting the GLA atomic diffuser that goes inline with the filter outflow. I will be moving the drop checker around in the mean time to check CO2 levels in various parts of the aquarium.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

Oh, forgot to mention, my current diffuser is the GLA 60mm atomic diffuser.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

Pooch said:


> If find that if my gloss does not get enough CO2, it turns leggy in a hurry. I am able to get carpeting glosso using a 4x32w T8 shoplight over a 75g. (read: you have more then adequate light.)
> 
> Your drop checkers may show 'optimum', but do some things to verify this; such as replace the 4dh fluid, reagent, cleaning. Also, consider how co2 is diffused and _spread_ around in the tank... Is it getting to all areas in your tank..? I found that I got great co2 diffusion via a Rex Grigg-style reactor, but the flow did not reach the floor of the tank; hence the glosso was starved for co2 and was leggy. I put a drop checker very low, nearly right on top of the glosso, and low and behold, the color showed a darker green that what it was indicating higher up in the water column. I adjusted my canister outflow and a powerhead to create greater flow near the floor of the tank. Now the glosso is carpeting very well....
> 
> Good luck!


Drop checker right over the glosso might even me more in the yellow than the initial spot i had it in. Based on some weird signs of deficiency in several of my plants (i.e. plant stems dying from the bottom up, fragile stems, stunted growth in a few), despite me increasing circulation and macro dosing, I think I may have identified the problem, or at least one of them. I was trying to dose according to EI using Flourish products but it was kinda difficult to figure out if I had everything right. It turns out I was only dosing 5mL of Flourish comprehensive 3x a week, which it turns out, according to http://calc.petalphile.com/ , is about 3 times too little. I wasn't entirely happy with Flourish comprehensive to begin with, but I just received the dry powders for EI dosing so now I will be dosing with CSM+B 3x a week, which should give me much higher levels of micros which hopefully will turn things around. Not saying this is the problem with the glosso, but i guess it could be at least part of it.


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## Hadouken441 (Mar 19, 2010)

Glosso grows like a weed. Be careful lol. If you have your settings tuned right after a month, it doesnt stop growing. You can almost sit there and witness it spread


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

Oh, I have read about how invasive it can me, and I'm ready to trim it back as needed. I'm just trying to get it to make a carpet right now.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

So I was just taking a closer look at my tank tonight and I noticed what looks like several small buds popping up next to established stems of glosso that appear to be growing vertically. I can't tell if they have put out runners or not. This is only 5 days after I increased micronutrient dosing. Hopefully it keeps it up! I realize it can go crazy in no time. I know the picture is kinda blurry, but you might be able to see the smaller leaves popping up next to established stems.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

New growth is very flat, as long as you keep it mowed, it should not grow vertical unless there's a CO2 issue.





























And back to:









Then got tired of it:









New weed:


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

What is that plant in the bottom image? the ground cover plant. It's still a bit early to tell with mine I think. I know that most of the stems have grown vertically and not horizontally like I would like. I have been adjusting CO2 and ferts and circulation. Judging by signs positive signs in some of my other plants, I think I might get getting close to a nice balance. I was just commenting that it looks like I might have some low horizontal growth beginning but it's difficult to tell right now. I'm about to move my tank home for summer (at college now) and I plan on removing the black layer of gravel then and replacing it with something with smaller particle size so it might be able to grow along the substrate easier.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

I had the same issue as you, glosso growing tall, and at 2.6 wpg even with HO bulbs, I'd say the light is a bit low. This plant will grow like a rug with more intense light. Trimming it low, and planting it deeper into the substrate also helps. Another indicator that my lights were not intense enough was the rotala wallichii was not red enough.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

Well I've had my canister filter (Fluval 306) up and running for a week now. I have the intake in the back left corner and the outflow nozzle near the front of the left side pointing longways across the front of the tank. It appears I have pretty good flow throughout the tank. All the plants are swaying gently. I just trimmed my glosso that was growing vertically and I noticed several stems that are growing horizontally. I think part of my problem is my substrate. My top layer is black gravel and it looks like several plants are trying to put down roots to pull themselves down to grow horizontally, but they can't hold on in the gravel. I am removing the gravel next week when I move my tank home for summer and replacing it with Fluorite Dark. Maybe the finer substrate will work better. I am also planning to build a stand and canopy this summer and was considering retrofitting and additional T5HO bulb to provide more light. I haven't decided yet though. I do notice that since changing from Fluorish line to the dry powders in solution, several of the plants seem to have perked up a bit. My ludwigia arcuata is beginning to look healthier and might be showing some red color.


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## cradleoffilthfan (Jan 19, 2009)

very informative threads. There are quite a few things in here I will try as well since I am having the same issue. I have to try moving the drop checker around to see what I have near the Glosso as well. I am also using a GLA atomic diffuser and my drop checker reads yellow, but I guess I don't really know for sure what it is down low......and I have new lights coming soon.....


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## chirping_blue_bird (May 5, 2012)

3/4 watts per gallon lighting is the rule. Lights with 6500K color temperature and CRI 90-95.
With this any carpet plant will grow.

Cheers!
Ravi


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

chirping_blue_bird said:


> 3/4 watts per gallon lighting is the rule. Lights with 6500K color temperature and CRI 90-95.
> With this any carpet plant will grow.
> 
> Cheers!
> Ravi


The problem with wpg is that it doesn't account for the various types of lighting available today. 3wpg Compact fluorescent is not the same as 3wpg T5NO which is still not the same as 3wpg T5HO, etc. So that basically still tells me nothing. I know that 3 to 4wpg is supposed to work, but that system is obsolete now. Thanks for the input, but believe me, I have done as much reading as I could find trying to compare wattage equivalents among the various types of lighting. The more I read, the more the wpg rule makes absolutely no sense these days. Seeing as I don't have a PAR meter to see how much effective light I really have, I'm left to guess and judge by the plants. Sorry if that comes of a little rude, I don't intend it to be. I've just read that so many times, but it just never makes sense because it hardly ever specifies the type of lighting used, nor the distance from the substrate at which the lights are suspended, nor the quality/effectiveness of the reflectors used in said fixture. There's just too many variables to consider.


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## chirping_blue_bird (May 5, 2012)

Please check if your lights have the full spectrum(5500K - 7500K) with CRI above 90. You can use any lighting capacity based on the gallons, but ensure the light output is 6500K with CRI 90-95. Also the macro/micro nutrients dosage once every two days with enough CO2 injection. To some extent the flow of the filtration through the outlet should be a complete( no stagnant water). This is to ensure again the CO2 gets distributed evenly. I used to have a 12000K T5HO not aware of the fact that its for a marine setup. With 6500K my plants are green and i have started growing carpet plants as well ( hair grass).


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

chirping_blue_bird said:


> Please check if your lights have the full spectrum(5500K - 7500K) with CRI above 90. You can use any lighting capacity based on the gallons, but ensure the light output is 6500K with CRI 90-95. Also the macro/micro nutrients dosage once every two days with enough CO2 injection. To some extent the flow of the filtration through the outlet should be a complete( no stagnant water). This is to ensure again the CO2 gets distributed evenly. I used to have a 12000K T5HO not aware of the fact that its for a marine setup. With 6500K my plants are green and i have started growing carpet plants as well ( hair grass).


I have been using Flourish comprehensive, but I've switched to CSM+B as of a couple weeks ago, dosed every other day, as well as KNO3 and KH2PO4 dosed on opposite days from CSM+B. I have 2x T5HO. Coralife 6700K and Colormax bulbs. Not sure where to find the CRI.


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