# went big on my first real tank! opinions?



## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

So, I've had a 10 gal fish only tank for about a year and I put that one away about 3 years ago. I decided to get a new tank a few months ago and I've been reading up and it seems that everyones regret with their tank is that they wish it were a little bigger... so I found the biggest one I could afford (220gal 72x24x31) and figured out a way to cram it in through my front door!

I liked the idea of having a refugium because im into fish breeding and I was also kinda inspired by some of the RDP sumps I've seen on FW tanks. So I picked up a 55gal for my sump tank and built 2 glass baffels into it making 3 chambers. One for the pump/s one for bio balls and one for the refugium. There is nothing in the sump atm, just one mag 7 pump.

No CO2 atm and I dont think I will ever afford a high tech setup, But im thinking I will make a rather large diy CO2 setup, but im not sure where the best spot to inject it to would be, I think I'll outgass any CO2 above atmosperic concentration where the display tank water splashes down into the sump on both sides. So it would have to be anywhere but there. Do you guys think it would even help considering I have about 260gal of water? 

For lighting I have a 48" ocean sun zoo med 10,000k bulb, it came with the 55gal I got so I figured it was better than nothing... But I also have it up against a window. It dosent get much direct sunlight but does get some. So when I bought plants from aquariumplants.com I got mostly low-light stuff, there listed on my tank profile. Im thinking of getting 3 clamp on lights from homedepot and using 3x 45-60watt daylight spec CFL's to suppliment and a fourth for use in the refugium.

For substrate I used 60lbs eco-complete on the bottom, 100lbs landscapers gravel on top with about 20lbs of reg size gravel in a few spots. a couple found rocks and peices of driftwood.

I haven't used or bought any ferts yet but I would like to get something soon, any recomendations? I think I'll need alot for 260 gal of water so something cheap, but all inclusive. 

I'll be getting a second mag 7 or maby a mag 9.5 for the other side of the tank, but probably not for a while.

My plants have been in there for about 5 days now and they all look either the same or slightly worse since I planted them. Im hoping they are just adjusting to a lower light environment then where they were before and adjusting to my water. I dont have any test kits yet so I cant speak to the water quality yet but I used 25 5ml doses as I was filling it, of water conditioner because I have city water.

Any comments good or bad, tips, or techniques to help me out would be awesome. I have no fish yet but tomorrow or the next day I will be collecting fish for work in a local lake, so I think I'll grab a dozen or so to help cycle the tank and maby they will help fertelize my plants a little. Should I be trimming any of my plants? planting them any differntly than I did? I have very little money atm so what do you guys think I should focus on first to keep my plants alive? once I get the first step done then what would be the next thing I should focus on to keep them more than alive, but healthy? Thanks in advance, and Im sorry m post is so long... Its my first and I dident want to leave anything out!


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## jwm5 (May 9, 2010)

wow. go big or go home I guess...

from what I have seen above 55 gallons or so DIY CO2 would require so much in terms of bottles/sugar etc that it would cost more than just getting a pressurized co2.

with the amount of lighting you have I would say dont even worry about co2 yet anyway. Clamp on lights will help, but I am not sure what type of bulb/wattage will be effective on a tank as deep as yours, plus you would probably need about 6 or so (in addition to what you already have) to evenly light a wide and deep tank like you have.

get some pictures up, big tanks are another ball game and I cant offer much help. Sounds like you are off to a ok start. Hopefully the landscape gravel did not have anything in it that will effect your water quality


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## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

I don't think trying to do DIY co2 on that tank will be worth the time and effort. You'd be better off just going pure low-tech, no co2. Might even want to make it a mineralized top soil (MTS) setup so that you can "set it, and forget it" - (c) Ronco


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## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

ok so I'll skip the DIY co2. I think after work tomorrow I'll stop by homedepot to get some clamp on lights. Any other opinions on CFLs? I can get the right light spectrum in a CFL but has anyone used them before? I guess its either that or reg incandesents... which im not a fan of. Any advice on the best way to fert the water? I hear dry ferts are cheapest, where can I get em and do I need to mix a bunch of different nutrients or can I buy a bag of pre-mixed or a blend somewhere?

* and I posted a few pics under "my tanks" let me know what you guys think! My Vals are looking transparent and ... not good on the tips and its moving downward. should I trim em? leave em?


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

220G? Anything that's not low tech moss/java fern/anubias will drive you crazy.


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## Gotcha38 (Apr 13, 2010)

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a two bulb shop light and sit it on top of the tank instead of buying a bunch of clip ons?


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## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

Shop lights might be a better bet... I just got back from home depot and I got one clip on and a 6500K CFL 100watt equivilent and uses 26 watts of energy... so does that mean I can add 26 watts to my over all wattage? or 100? lol. No real good spot to clip them either, I dont want them to fall in the aquarium. Ill at least keep this one for my fuge, but Im thinking maby a shop light of some sort. can anyone recomend anything? preferably cheap. I can never find stuff over 48" and Id really need a 72". and how much wattage would be too much for a no co2 at all and all low light plants. keep in mind it is next too a window also.


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## redmary51 (Mar 17, 2011)

I'm thinking you can't lay shop lights on the top. You would need to hang them somehow and put daylight bulbs in them. You could get two of the 48" ones end to end and overlap them (side by side) for a few inches. I'm not knowledgeable enough with lighting to know if that would be enough light for low light in that large a tank.


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## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

anyone have experience with the catalina aquarium lighthouse hoods? they have a 72" with 3x 65w (195 total). It dosen't say if its a T8 or T5... Ill try to look into it, but that seems like a decent deal and about the wattage I was thinking, unless someone has experience with a low light / low tech, Big tank that would recomend something else. probably cant afford that unit for a while though.


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## cheeman (Jan 26, 2011)

Try ebay and craigslist. you always find good deals and the swap n shop! but if you have the ambition to get a 220 over a 55 75 .. you will prob end up with a hi tech co2 tank sooner or later ..


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## naturelady (Dec 14, 2009)

Well, I must admit, I am confused why you would choose to buy a tank so large that it took all of your budget, and now you can't afford lights to put on top of it. But I guess the whole thing is massive if the sump is 55 gal...

But I can answer your question regarding the CFLs. For the lighting equivalents, if you want to use the watts per gallon estimate, you must use the number of watts that the CFL bulb actually uses, not the number of watts the bulb is rated at. So, in your case, the bulb uses 26 watts and is rated at 100 watts. So this adds a maximum of 26 watts to the total number of watts above your tank.

I say it adds a maximum of 26 watts because a number of factors affect how many watts are actually above your tank, one of the most important of them being the positioning of the lightbulb. If the lightbulb is straight vertical above the tank, a larger percent of the watts will be effective than if you have the lightbulb at an angle, which is likely if yours is clipped onto the side of the tank.


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

220gallon, dammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnn...

With the ammout of yiest/sugar for that DIY Co2, you will be spending way over a pressurized co2's worth.... Invest in a P.co2 and you'll never look back. I promise you.


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## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

yeah, I chose to put 90% of my budget into the tank because I figured if I got anything smaller, then I would want to upgrade in a year or 2, and that would be more expencive. 

The reason (aside from the fact that I have no money) that I wanted to try no co2 injection was because I thought it would be fun to try a RDP fuge on a FW tank. Everyones first assumpion when it comes to a planted tank and a sump is that it is doomed to fail from the beginning. And if I were to use pressurized co2 then I think it would be doomed. All the Co2 I put in would be gone when the water passed though the sump. (theres a lot of bubbles and splashing going on in there) so I would have to keep it cranked up all the time. And for that reason you (I) never see that combo. But I also figure, if there is alot of splashing then could you assume that your levels of o2 / co2 and any other gasses would always be the same concentration as atmospheric. So that is my baseline co2 conc, anything I add in (post splashy part of sump) would bring it up over that baseline. And my thought as the best way to bring up that co2 is an RDP sump. If I plant the sump super heavy with a rich substrate and regular dosing for the display tank, then put the sump lights on a timer opposite as the display (on at night and off during daylight). Then during the day those plants will be adding co2 to the display tank and at night they will be adding o2 to the display.

Its common practice in a SW tank (moreso for the ph regulation) but I liked the theory and I havent seen it done for a long time in a planted, low-tech, FW, sumped, tank. Granted I think the amount of co2 added wont be alot, but that, along with a tank that has a healthy stocking of fish (all wild FW fish from Connecticut). Maby I can get some nice growth in a low-light no-co2 tank. 

Sorry, as you can see Im a fan of long posts...


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## jwm5 (May 9, 2010)

A non CO2 low tech is definitely possible and sounds like the way to go till you budget allows if you even want to go medium/high tech. And in that case a sump is not an issue, as you said the issue with Sump is for people with pressurized CO2 and if you do not do a lot of planning and other things to the water flowing into you sump, then you will off gas the CO2, but again low tech no CO2 there is no cause for concern with the sump setup.

low lights plants like Java fern, most anubias and a lot of crypts should do fine in your setup. and depending on how much indirect daylight you do get other things could do well also. I had a 30g X-high (24" high) near a window that got indirect light and I had a amazon sword plant that got huge (tank was low tech and only had a 15watt standard tube). So even in low tech setups plants can do great, try some out and see what works for you.


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## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

its been a week now and the Dwarf HG looks the same (good). amazon swords are gaining leaves, anubis congensis hasen't changed, and dwarf baby tears look same/good. crypt wendtii is doing the best by far, lots of new leaves. My only problems are the java fern look slightly worse, but not by much. And the vals (spiralis) aka italian, isen't looking so good. they are turning transparent and floppy on the tips and kinda yellowish. there my tallest plants atm (they reach about 15" little less than half the hight. I wanted them to kinda fill in the back and top of this tall aquarium but now they are doing the worst... any suggestions? im still working on buying some kinda ferts, gatta put substrate and plants in the sump, and I need fish.

Also, can you guys see my tank pictures under view user tanks? I cant figure out how to add pics into the thread and the sticky dident help me 8/.


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## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

Finally getting my fish tonight, well see what I get. Im thinking a few bluegills a few pumpkinseeds and I would like to get some redbreast or green sunfish, but well see what happens. 

The plants are still growing, My congensis is putting up a new leaf. My vals keep floating up and I have to re-plant them, but all of them have either one or 2 runners on them now, although they original plants still are looking floppy and transparent.

Lastly, I have algae... its like fine hairs about 2 inches long. mostly on the dwarf baby tears and some of my rocks. But it is also starting tiny spots on the glass (pea sized atm). I only have one 48" 37watt on this tank and recently added a clipon with a 26w 6500k cfl. not even close to 1 wpg. I was gearing up to buy either a 2 bulb 80w t5 (160w) or a 4 bulb 80w t5 (320w) 72". Is that going to just make things worse? my plants seem to be ok at 0.2 wpg (lol). but I figured getting near 1-1.2 would be standard for low light no co2... No ferts yet, hoping the fish will help with that.


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