# Keeping Neos with Tiger Shrimp - Water Parameters?



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

The problem is using aquasoil, trying to increase pH or gH, the aquasoil is just going to lower the gH and decrease the pH and you're going to be constant battle to keep them stable. Neo's like higher pH/higher gH.


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## Bananariot (Feb 28, 2012)

pH 7, gH 6-8, kH 0, TDS 200

If you're using aquasoil, you're wasting your aquasoil on these shrimp because they don't need buffering. lol.


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## jncme (May 29, 2012)

ph 7
kH 4-8
gH 6-10
TDS 100-180
temp 18-23

for mixing them


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

Can I try to increase TDS to around 200ppm (which would raise GH higher) and hope for the best?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

no matter what you do the aqua soild will bring the gh/ph down that is what it is for. i would get some crs or cbs for the aquasoil tank and do something diff like sand for the tigers and neo's cause you will never keep the ph or gh up where is needs to be for them to be happy its just how the soil works and if you up the tds it can cause probs in molting


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Newman said:


> Can I try to increase TDS to around 200ppm (which would raise GH higher) and hope for the best?


Doesn't matter what you do with TDS and GH/KH. The bottom line is pH is too low.


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

ok, what if I changed the DI water out with my tap water?
maybe that will help keep the pH near 7?
And what if the pH doesnt go lower than 6.5 (assuming i am using tap water instead now)? thats good enough for both species right?


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## tom855 (Jan 31, 2006)

What is the "perfect" pH for Neos considered to be? What about Tigers?

If you were using a non-buffering substrate and RO water, how would you suggest you get the water to the "perfect" parameters?

Thanks!


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

IMO, pH of 7 would be good for both. I think that neos do better at 7 or higher up to around 7.6-7.8. Tigers, people keep them at anywhere from low to mid 6 up into the 7's. I'm keeping both in one tank at pH 7.4. I think that when you get into OEBT's, it's a little different and they appreciate lower pH.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Newman said:


> ok, what if I changed the DI water out with my tap water?
> maybe that will help keep the pH near 7?
> And what if the pH doesnt go lower than 6.5 (assuming i am using tap water instead now)? thats good enough for both species right?


6.5 isn't good for neos, at least in my experience. They will live but not thrive. Some people have had different experiences, but I think that most see better results out of neo at least when the pH is above 7.


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## tom855 (Jan 31, 2006)

Right now I have substrates that are affecting my pH, kH, and gH, correct? Is there a way to use these substrates and get a pH of 7.0 with the gH and kH I need.

If I completely dump this substrate, how do I use RO plus Mosura to get the params I need?

Thanks!

Tom


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

ok so 6.5pH isnt high enough, got it... hopefully I'll wind up with higher pH, but if not I'll just do Tigers.

Tom, if youre using shrimp stratum or aquasoil, then yes they are buffering the water to a lower pH. I am not yet sure if you can get a pH of 7 with them. going to try. Most likely though the aquasoil will raise no higher than 6.6pH or around there.

if you use a diff substrate, you can use just RO water and then add enough drops of mosura to get to the TDS you need. for crystals thats around 100-150TDS. tigers and Neos around 200TDS.


I am going to post up a new set of parameters of my water after I the change is complete. i changed out my water (or rather diluted it 4 times, five gallons at a time.) The water is now around 7.2pH but this is inaccurate as it needs to settle more.
Once the aquasoil begins to act on the water it will likely go down in pH, so i'll report back in one day on the new params.

Thanks for the help guys.


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## tom855 (Jan 31, 2006)

Newman said:


> if you use a diff substrate, you can use just RO water and then add enough drops of mosura to get to the TDS you need. for crystals thats around 100-150TDS. tigers and Neos around 200TDS.


IF I had an inert substrate and added Mosura to get the TDS right, what the heck does that mean for the pH? How do I know what the pH will be?

Thanks!


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

you can just test the pH as you go along or you can try to use the TDS to estimate what the pH is going to be using only RO water.

Using only RO, if you have about 100TDS, you will have an acidic pH. 
in order to get a basic pH, you will need to add more than just GH with that mosura. you'll need some KH value, which the RO doesnt have. RO water has a KH of 0 dKH.
I forget exactly how you boost KH...i think crushed coral added into your HOB filter can raise KH...

But if you want to raise Neo you could just use plain tap water. if you want to add tigers, then mix tap with RO 50/50 and see what levels that gets you.


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## tom855 (Jan 31, 2006)

My concern about tap, quite honestly, is who knows what's in it, and who knows how it changes over time. I know we have nitrate issues from farm runnoff, etc. On the other hand, I have a 58G that is ALL tap, heavily planted with Excel, and I have a ton of RCS and even a few Tigers running around in it. Maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing. I do know that what I'm doing now is not working so good, as least for the OEBTs and Yellows (RIP).


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## tom855 (Jan 31, 2006)

Here is a specific question.....

I have a good TDS meter. My liquid pH test kit is crap.... or at least is not accurate.

Is there an exact (+/-) correlation of TDS to pH? If I add Mosura Mineral Plus Ultra to RO, can I use TDS as an reasonably accurate estimator of what my pH is? If so, I could just use inert substrate, add Mosura to a reasonable TDS and 7.0 +/- pH, and would be good to go!

Thanks for the advice!

Tom


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

yes for those OEBT you will want conditions similar to crystal shrimp, so thats KH 0, TDS around 100-150ppm, and an acidic pH.

can you get a working liquid pH test? API?

Its unlikely that you can get a pH of 7 with using only RO and mosura. but try it out.
get your TDS to 150 and see what your pH level will be. it should be fine for the OEBT, but idk if it will be ok for the yellows. if its close to 7pH then it might be good enough for yellow shrimp. since yellow shrimp do not like acid conditions, maybe it has to do with molting and calcium and all that. add a small piece of cuttlefish bone to the tank for them. maybe that will help out. the problem of getting pH7 with RO is because you dont have any KH value which has the role of buffering the water at higher pH (the higher the KH value). try things out. 

I will be testing my water soon and will post up what i wound up with...
my goal is to keep Neo and tangerine tiger together and breeding. ALSO to have good plant growth which the aquasoil ensures. (never seen moss grow this nicely. its not even root feeding!)


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

here are the new parameters after the water was replaced with tap:

Temperature: 75F in winter 80F+ in hottest summer months.
KH: 8dKH
GH: 11dGH
TDS: 300ppm
pH: 6.5-6.6pH (Aquasoil)


unfortunately the pH still lingers at the lower limit of Neocaridina's liking


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

tempted to try things out and see how they breed. Neos will be going in first. *maybe* these new parameters can work?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Good thing is the neos will live in those parameters. Just give them a nice long drip acclimation unless they come from similar conditions. If they don't breed, you can always move them to better parameters later.


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## tom855 (Jan 31, 2006)

Newman,

Any guess if there is a product that can raise the kH slightly that is shrimp safe and will allow the pH to be stable? If there is, perhaps I can use that plus Mosura and I'll be set!

Thanks,

Tom


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

the ph will stay low because of the substrate nothing you do will keep it up long do to the buffering of the soil


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## tom855 (Jan 31, 2006)

That was my question ASSUMING I change the substrate to something inert. Sorry I wasn't clear.


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## Drift Monkey (Mar 26, 2012)

FWIW Newman, all my shrimp tanks use Fluval Shrimp Stratum + Prime'd tap and sit at 6.8-7.2 pH consistently.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

see FSS drops my tap water from 7-7.5 down to 5 if i let it sit long enough with out water changes. i would go with a black aquarium sand or something like eco complete if your doin a planted tank.either way i would go with a dark substrate to make the shrimp pop


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## Drift Monkey (Mar 26, 2012)

my water is at a relatively high pH straight outta the tap, so I guess that has something to do with it.


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

crushed coral is the best for upping and buffering KH, tom.

I will try out my current setup guys and will report on what i find. It'll be great if the Neos breed.


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