# ADA drop checker solution..why not 4 kdh?



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Amano doesn't use the ADA or any drop checkers. His company, ADA, sells aquarium equipment, but that doesn't mean Amano uses everything they sell.

I doubt that Amano or ADA knows about the use of a drop checker to measure CO2. It was originally intended as a method for monitoring pH in the tank, and using tank water is the only way that could be done.

Before I started working on making a drop checker useful I emailed ADA to find out if they recommended using distilled water in the drop checker. The answer I got was that Amano doesn't use the drop checker and had no recommendations. A few years have passed since then, but as far as I know Amano's disinterest in drop checkers hasn't changed.


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> Amano doesn't use the ADA or any drop checkers. His company, ADA, sells aquarium equipment, but that doesn't mean Amano uses everything they sell.
> 
> I doubt that Amano or ADA knows about the use of a drop checker to measure CO2. It was originally intended as a method for monitoring pH in the tank, and using tank water is the only way that could be done.
> 
> Before I started working on making a drop checker useful I emailed ADA to find out if they recommended using distilled water in the drop checker. The answer I got was that Amano doesn't use the drop checker and had no recommendations. A few years have passed since then, but as far as I know Amano's disinterest in drop checkers hasn't changed.


Whoa, thanks Hoppy. That is very interesting. I would hope Amano uses everything he sells but I guess not. If I were Amano and was at the cutting edge of this hobby, I would research and use what is best for the client's success for the hobby and that will pay dividends down the road. 

His drop checker is beautiful but I was a little sad to see I had to use tank water. I ordered 4 dkh solution instead. If all else, I could just use the drop check as a christmas ornament. 

So, how does Amano check his Co2? I'm sure he has so much experience that just by observation is all he needs.

Best,


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

When you know what you're doing there isn't a need to use a drop checker at all. When my fabco needle valve comes in I'll set it to the bubble rate I want and remove my drop checker. Enough fiddling with my tank has taught me that I need 1.5-1.6 bubbles per second, between 1.7 and 2 the fauna slow and breathes more heavily but nothings dies and the drop checker is too yellow. Higher than 2 is bad, and havn't tried it with any animals in the tank. 

I don't need it to measure my ph since with aquasoil and co2, my pH is always 5 during the day and pH is nothing for me to worry about anyway. I'll probably only use it if i ever decide to change my diffusion method and/or bubble rate, monitor for a while then stick it back in a drawer. 

They are cool doo-dads, though! All of the glassware reminds me of Christmas ornaments lol.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I doubt that any of the very experienced, very successful planted tank keepers ever use a drop checker. They can judge the CO2 by the plants and fish. All of us could once we find out what too much CO2 looks like and what the plants look like when the CO2 is about right. But, first you have to learn all of that, and while doing that a drop checker is a great guide.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

I honestly couldn't answer this question - I've used a drop checker once very briefly in my life and haven't since. We don't even stock these at ADG. I mean, we could special order them, but they aren't really a part of normal stock or a consideration for container orders unless there's a special request.

However - my recommendation would be to follow the directions and you'll get the intended results. Never a bad strategy to go with the prescribed ADA instructions.


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## blair (Feb 8, 2009)

Amano, or rather his brand ADA, likely sells it because it _can_ read pH fluctuations from dissolved CO2 in the water column. It is a beneficial piece of equipment for a beginner, but yes, a seasoned eye and more experience will prove that this tool is crude and definitely not essential. I have used them before, and with tank water, which works just fine. A special solution is not required. However, these days I don't think twice about it and the drop checkers sit patiently on a shelf in another city. Don't criticize his sale of an item he doesn't use as it does have it purpose, its just not critical. Consider it a pretty accessory for your aquarium, but at the same time it can be viewed as a distraction to the more seasoned eye.


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

All fantastic comments, thank you for setting me straight. I'm no pro so I need all the help I can get. I'm starting to understand the relationship between light, co2, and dosing. My first planted tank was successful for awhile until algae set in and then I learned the hard way that I need more co2. This second go around is so far so good...lots of co2, EI, and lights are excellent but not too much. Got all this info from you guys. 

Even though Amano doesn't use a drop checker, i still think supplying the right solution for a beginner buying his drop checker is just good customer service. If I have great experience with Amano from the get go, I will shop with him again.

Best,


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

You can use your tank water just fine without any inaccuracy problems. Just draw some water from it after the light and co2 have been off for a while


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

Francis Xavier said:


> You can use your tank water just fine without any inaccuracy problems. Just draw some water from it after the light and co2 have been off for a while


Hi Francis, thank you for your reply. As you know, the kit comes with a ph color card. So, at what color is my co2 at 30 ppm? The colors just tells me what the ph is....am I trying to target a ph of 6.5 or 6.0 with a yellow coloring? Is that telling me its 30 ppm? That's where I'm confused.... where do I stop or do I need more co2? :eek5:

With a 4 dkh solution :if its blue, add more ; green, just right ; yellow, too much.

Best,


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Francis Xavier said:


> You can use your tank water just fine without any inaccuracy problems. Just draw some water from it after the light and co2 have been off for a while


I'm sorry, but this is not entirely true. 

1) This assumes carbonic acid is all that effects KH in your tank

2) If you just try to get a green or greenish yellow color, you could get that from the start without any co2, depending on your KH. 

You can use the drop checker, identify your initial ph and kh, and relate it to the ph/co2 chart

But compared to using a 4dkh solution, this is much less accurate(and drop checkers are only "sorta" accurate to start)


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

asiansensation2000 said:


> Hi Francis, thank you for your reply. As you know, the kit comes with a ph color card. So, at what color is my co2 at 30 ppm? The colors just tells me what the ph is....am I trying to target a ph of 6.5 or 6.0 with a yellow coloring? Is that telling me its 30 ppm? That's where I'm confused.... where do I stop or do I need more co2? :eek5:
> 
> With a 4 dkh solution :if its blue, add more ; green, just right ; yellow, too much.
> 
> Best,


What you are trying to target is in relation to what your inital pH and KH is.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Francis Xavier said:


> You can use your tank water just fine without any inaccuracy problems. Just draw some water from it after the light and co2 have been off for a while


Please explain how this would work to determine your CO2 levels. How will using aquarium water allow you to determine CO2 levels accurately?


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

over_stocked said:


> What you are trying to target is in relation to what your inital pH and KH is.


Ahhh, okay....now I got it.

So, after purchasing a ADA drop checker, then I have to buy a KH test kit, test, then print out the ph/kh chart, do my math and.....voila !!....I get my co2. Do I need to do a song and dance with that? That's alot of work after paying about $44. 

All I'm saying to Mr Amano is just supply a 4 dkh solution with the drop checker so us noobs can be successful instead of beating my head against the wall and spending hours trying to get it right. Now I have to buy some chemistry beakers and mix my own 4 dkh, do my Frankenstein mixing, some more song and dance. :icon_eek:

This drop checker is looking more and more like a Christmas ornament.

Also, why doesn't the direction say this? All it comes with is a ph chart. I don't think it says how many drops of ph reagent to add.

Francis, I didn't mean to insult......its a beautiful drop checker and I'm sure you have reasoning behind this.

Best,


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

No one is always right about everything involved in planted tanks, not even ADA.  This is one of the rare times when ADA is wrong. But, I'm sure that's because the company personnel, including Amano, don't need to use a drop checker for anything. And, that is largely because Amano uses low light, or low medium light exclusively. This statement is based on some measurements of PAR from the lights ADA sells, and how those lights are used. When you use relatively low light, CO2 concentration isn't critical, and doesn't need to be even close to that which kills fish.


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> No one is always right about everything involved in planted tanks, not even ADA.  This is one of the rare times when ADA is wrong. But, I'm sure that's because the company personnel, including Amano, don't need to use a drop checker for anything. And, that is largely because Amano uses low light, or low medium light exclusively. This statement is based on some measurements of PAR from the lights ADA sells, and how those lights are used. When you use relatively low light, CO2 concentration isn't critical, and doesn't need to be even close to that which kills fish.


Ahh Hoppy, you make me "Happy". I've read many of your post and you just makes sense. Thanks. 

I'm just ranting here cause it kept me up at night. My wife says I'm obsessed about this hobby. She thinks I need to see a shrink. I always deny it but I think she's right. Doh! She doesn't know it but I think she enjoys the tank more than I do! I catch her sometimes staring into the tank like the abyss and she's starting to name some of my fish. I love her and we both need serious help. :thumbsup:


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

While I agree that once you learn how to set up and dial in your CO2 system you no longer need a drop checker (and that you certainly could dial it in as a beginner by trial and error if you want) the advice that it doesn't matter if you use tank water and to just trust the erroneous ADA instructions because ADA wrote them is simply bad advice to give a beginner.

Yes you can use tank water but then you need to figure out what color represents a safe CO2 level based on the KH of your tank water and what is affecting the carbonate hardness meaning more work, more research and more confusion for a beginner.

The reason for using 4 dKH water in a drop checker is that it standardizes variables and the reaction.... a green color with 4 dKH water means you have a good level of CO2 in the water for the plants but not enough to cause problems with your livestock. This is repeatable in everyones tank. Once you dial in a safe level you can tweak it up or down a bit by eye and once you know what you are doing you can remove the drop checker altogether if you wish.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

It's really easy. You don't need to use a chart or even buy a kh test kit. You can buy pre-made water for use wi drop checkers with a kh of 4 degrees. I got mine from eBay. 

Add a couple ml's of the 4 dkh water, add a couple drops of ph reagent, and put it in your tank and wait about an hour. 

They are mostly good for walking by the take, taking a quick glance and knowing all is well. Or at least it was an half hour to an hour ago : )

If you use tank water, the color will just indicate the pH of your tank.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

asiansensation2000 said:


> I love her and we both need serious help. :thumbsup:


You've come to the right place. Now, just lie down, relax and tell us your troubles. :icon_cool


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

The drop checker is really handy for initial CO2 set up, but you'll get tired of seeing it in your tank. At least I got tired of seeing my craptastic looking home made job.


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## asiansensation2000 (Nov 18, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> You've come to the right place. Now, just lie down, relax and tell us your troubles. :icon_cool


Haha.....now where should i start....:icon_roll


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## Mr. Fisher (Mar 24, 2009)

captain_bu said:


> while i agree that once you learn how to set up and dial in your co2 system you no longer need a drop checker (and that you certainly could dial it in as a beginner by trial and error if you want) the advice that it doesn't matter if you use tank water and to just trust the erroneous ada instructions because ada wrote them is simply bad advice to give a beginner.
> 
> Yes you can use tank water but then you need to figure out what color represents a safe co2 level based on the kh of your tank water and what is affecting the carbonate hardness meaning more work, more research and more confusion for a beginner.
> 
> The reason for using 4 dkh water in a drop checker is that it standardizes variables and the reaction.... A green color with 4 dkh water means you have a good level of co2 in the water for the plants but not enough to cause problems with your livestock. This is repeatable in everyones tank. Once you dial in a safe level you can tweak it up or down a bit by eye and once you know what you are doing you can remove the drop checker altogether if you wish.


 
+1 !!!


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