# 2019 - curing BBA forever



## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

sfshrimp said:


> What advances have been made? Or are we arguing about EI/ high light / nutrient defficiencies?


Also curious. 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

There was a very recent thread surrounding how to deal with BBA. The content in there varied greatly, but the overall just was, very clean water and stable co2 will eventually get rid of it.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/1295875-bba.html


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Don't awaken the spores :surprise:

It's not one thing. Any variable in your tank can be the trigger. Light, organics, plant mass/uptake, fish load and husbandry all can play a role whether a threshold is surpassed and spores become full blow algae.

With that being said, clean water is the key, but the definition of "clean" water is different from tank to tank based on the above.


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## slipfinger (Jun 8, 2016)

This has been beat to death!

Personal experience here. 

I have 4 tanks 2x40g and 2x75g, all were high light, high Co2 tanks full of fast growing stem plants. Life became very busy for me, all four tanks received little to no maintenance for close to 5 months. Lights were not altered at all, all set at a 8 hour photo period. Zero nutrients add to any of the tanks, zero water changes on any of the tanks, just topped up when the water started to splash all over from being too low. All tanks received injected Co2 until the cylinders ran out, except my main display tank which is in full view, I switch that cylinder out to make sure the display tank continued to receive Co2. There was never a day in the whole neglect period the display tank did not have injected Co2 with at least a 1 point drop.

Out of the four tanks which one do you think had literally zero BBA? 

Just my 2 cents.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Discusluv said:


> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/1295875-bba.html


 Thanks,
Here is one more, quite entertaining, https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/1288075-bba-help.html .


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

slipfinger said:


> This has been beat to death!
> 
> Personal experience here.


I hope you don't mind me linking to your thread, but your battle with BBA is a great read. 

You demonstrate how to encourage BBA......and then how to fight and beat it back. 

Still one of my favorite posts and lots to learn there. You have to read a few pages, but the picture of the snail with BBA still makes me LOL!:wink2:

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1179321-75g-dutch-weed-farm-8.html#post11107499


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## slipfinger (Jun 8, 2016)

Greggz said:


> I hope you don't mind me linking to your thread, but your battle with BBA is a great read.
> 
> You demonstrate how to encourage BBA......and then how to fight and beat it back.
> 
> ...


Thanks Greggz. 

Ya it always amaze me when people would post pictures of their tank and ask, how can I get rid of the BBA it's taking over my tank. In the picture is a heater covered in BBA all the filter pipes covered in BBA........ First steps to getting rid of BBA is to actually get rid of it! If hardware can be removed, remove it, bleach it and then scrub the BBA off the equipment! 

I am happy to report, I currently have some pretty nice looking BBA in my 75g grow out tank. But I'm not looking to get rid of it so its ok to post pictures of it all over the equipment.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

New Avatar available, anyone?


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

I'm told that, once they beat cancer and the common cold, they are going to work on the much more challenging BBA problem.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

slipfinger said:


> Thanks Greggz.


That’s one way to reduce flow of those wave makers. See BBA has its uses,


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

slipfinger said:


> Thanks Greggz.
> 
> Ya it always amaze me when people would post pictures of their tank and ask, how can I get rid of the BBA it's taking over my tank. In the picture is a heater covered in BBA all the filter pipes covered in BBA........ First steps to getting rid of BBA is to actually get rid of it! If hardware can be removed, remove it, bleach it and then scrub the BBA off the equipment!
> 
> I am happy to report, I currently have some pretty nice looking BBA in my 75g grow out tank. But I'm not looking to get rid of it so its ok to post pictures of it all over the equipment.



Dont have CO2, do have a nice green BBA (GBA I guess). If I could figure out a way to control it wow could make some money lol. It looks impressive however does a number on certain plants.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

It's the million dollar question how to defeat the tank cancer. Did Tom Barr really figure it out or he's just a photoshop wizard? Out here in SF there is a great fish store - guy never changes water, runs little to none c02, all tanks look great, super healthy. He has high substrates generally, and doses with special blend.

Bump: So basically no advances have been made. Also did this low filter / no filter / low flow thing - what happened? fish died.

Bump:


slipfinger said:


> This has been beat to death!
> 
> Personal experience here.
> 
> ...


The three tanks were ok with nothing. The display tank had no BBA.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

One more question - does anyone have BBA inside of their filtesr?I clean my eheim quarterly and never see anything in there that looks bba. I use a microscope occasionally and all the bio balls are clean of the lunar dusting. Never see it attached to any pipes either.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

sfshrimp said:


> One more question - does anyone have BBA inside of their filtesr?I clean my eheim quarterly and never see anything in there that looks bba. I use a microscope occasionally and all the bio balls are clean of the lunar dusting. Never see it attached to any pipes either.


If your talking about a canister filter, probably not, it does need some light to grow.


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## slipfinger (Jun 8, 2016)

sfshrimp said:


> The three tanks were ok with nothing. The display tank had no BBA.


The other way around. 

The tank with consistent Co2 remained free of BBA the whole time.


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## Leeatl (Aug 8, 2015)

I see the consistent Co2 angle about BBA all the time , but if you do not add CO2 isn't that consistent ? I mean the balance with the atmosphere doesn't change that much does it ? I am ignorant when it comes to CO2 injection .


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

I think it's a little more complicated than simply having consistent CO2. I can easily induce BBA with a sudden increase in daily light levels (and have done so many a time), even with consistent everything. Once I adapt my plants to the new levels, BBA fades away. So, I personally believe that it is consistent everything that dampens BBA. If any one thing varies significantly (I have not tested for what those variations are), then BBA can take advantage of it and, what I am really saying is that consistently healthy plants are what impedes BBA. If CO2, as an example, is inconsistent, then plants falter and, I think, this is what signals algae to get going.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

slipfinger said:


> The other way around.
> 
> The tank with consistent Co2 remained free of BBA the whole time.


Nice. I like your tank. I run inline c02, but I still get some BBA. I just redid my tank to a sort of African river biotope and trying to see if my situation with BBA will change. I got rid of the old wood and all the old java moss, and java fern so I'm curious how it will do with fast growing stems. Also turned my lights down to 20 perecent power which seems really low - but it's a current USA light and I think it's fairly high PAR. at one point I was running it at 60 percent power or more. I also turned down the blue light spectrum to half of the other colors.

I have four plants now:

tiger lotus
parva crypts
chrismas moss
red ammannia
almond leaf litter

And around forty odd fish in a 12g long:

(16) black diamond cories
(4) ember tetras
(10) green tetras
(2) lamplight tetras
(1) black tetra
(1) albino loach
(1) golden dojo loach
(1) vietnamese rostrata loach
(1) clown loach
(2) rummy tetras
(6) albino raspboras

The golden dojo loach is 7" long at this point. Tough to keep the plants under the soil with her, but she is cool. I finally got a cover because I've rescued her twice from being out of the tank for 6+ hours. Amazing swamp mud creature.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I was going to stay out of this because I can only add anecdotal evidence (any of which is of very limited value) but this anecdotal evidence has shown to be pretty consistently true. My one remaining passive CO2 tank doesn't get it. When I ran pressurized I never saw BBA in those tanks. I believe I posted about it here at the time, but I took BBA infested Anubias and put it in my high tech tanks and the BBA slowly but surely died off every try. It must be noted that there were entirely other set of conditions such as dosing daily ferts, stronger lighting, fewer fish/feedings, and use of Excel in the low-techs since at the time I mistakenly thought it was a source of carbon for the plants (though we know BBA does not like Excel, I never added it to my injected tanks out of not truly understanding glutaraldehyde at the time). All four of these high tech tanks had their own issues over time, but BBA was never one of them. I remember testing each parameter value to report online, thinking someone could help make some sense of it. Why could this be? I used the same source water, same substrates, in a couple of cases the same lights. So I felt at the time that the key difference was consistently higher CO2 levels. And 10 years later I haven't seen much to make me not think that. 

But I have tanks that almost *should* have BBA and don't! Most of the plants for those 4 new 20 gallons I set up for shrimp this summer -I took them out of my current BBA infested tank. It's not a "bad" infestation but it's visible. I won't even RAOK the crypts in that tank because I can see a touch of it on some leaves. But I ripped up at least 30 crypts and threw them in these new setups. And there's no BBA growing in these not too bright, low flow, no CO2, no Excel tanks with active soil. There's a 0.0% chance I didn't introduce any because they were on the plants I cycled the tanks with. It kind of turned red, then pale, then the next thing you know I wasn't seeing any. So _that_ would suggest that there has to be a set of conditions it thrives in. Longest post ever to say that while I know ways to kill it, I have no idea what conditions BBA wants or why it sets up house in one low tech tank and not the next.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> If your talking about a canister filter, probably not, it does need some light to grow.


I guess we can check that box - BBA needs light. I never see it inside the cannister.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

The common denominator for me in regards to BBA will always be organics. BBA will grow in both co2-enriched and non-co2 systems. It's all a matter of how much organics each system can handle based on your parameters. Maybe we need a BBA Likelihood Index or even a calculator. If you have high light, no co2, light plant mass, heavy stock your likelihood of co2 is 10 (10=being most likely). If you have low light, co2, heavy plant mass, light stock your likelihood index is 1 or 0.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I was going to stay out of this because I can only add anecdotal evidence (any of which is of very limited value) but this anecdotal evidence has shown to be pretty consistently true. My one remaining passive CO2 tank doesn't get it. When I ran pressurized I never saw BBA in those tanks. I believe I posted about it here at the time, but I took BBA infested Anubias and put it in my high tech tanks and the BBA slowly but surely died off every try. It must be noted that there were entirely other set of conditions such as dosing daily ferts, stronger lighting, fewer fish/feedings, and use of Excel in the low-techs since at the time I mistakenly thought it was a source of carbon for the plants (though we know BBA does not like Excel, I never added it to my injected tanks out of not truly understanding glutaraldehyde at the time). All four of these high tech tanks had their own issues over time, but BBA was never one of them. I remember testing each parameter value to report online, thinking someone could help make some sense of it. Why could this be? I used the same source water, same substrates, in a couple of cases the same lights. So I felt at the time that the key difference was consistently higher CO2 levels. And 10 years later I haven't seen much to make me not think that.
> 
> But I have tanks that almost *should* have BBA and don't! Most of the plants for those 4 new 20 gallons I set up for shrimp this summer -I took them out of my current BBA infested tank. It's not a "bad" infestation but it's visible. I won't even RAOK the crypts in that tank because I can see a touch of it on some leaves. But I ripped up at least 30 crypts and threw them in these new setups. And there's no BBA growing in these not too bright, low flow, no CO2, no Excel tanks with active soil. There's a 0.0% chance I didn't introduce any because they were on the plants I cycled the tanks with. It kind of turned red, then pale, then the next thing you know I wasn't seeing any. So _that_ would suggest that there has to be a set of conditions it thrives in. Longest post ever to say that while I know ways to kill it, I have no idea what conditions BBA wants or why it sets up house in one low tech tank and not the next.


Was there wood in any of the tanks? I have really high current in my tank using a jet style outflow from an eheim cannister. My friend at the fish store says high current is bad. I had one experience where I had changed the filter from cannister to a really low-flow HOB, and all the BBA disappeared, but it also killed a bunch of fish because the filter could not handle the bioload.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Deanna said:


> So, I personally believe that it is consistent everything that dampens BBA.


Agreed. And I might add you need to have the right levels, and then keep them consistent. 

Light. Too much relative to plant mass/CO2/ferts is a major cause of BBA. But too little can be so too. Without enough light, many stems will wither, fade, and be an easy target for BBA. So it may be counter intuitive, but sometimes MORE light is the answer. 

CO2. The right level relative to your plant mix is required. Too little CO2, even if consistent, can lead to weak plants at less than peak health. BBA hates healthy growing plants, so get CO2 level correct. Amazing what a little more CO2 can do for plant health and keeping all algae at bay. Take the time to really dial it in.....then keep it there. 

Flow. BBA loves areas of high flow, but also loves areas with too little flow. Plants waving around is not good, but either is stagnant water. Take the time to get it right. IME, wide laminar flow is best. 

Ferts. I've never seen too many ferts cause BBA. But too little sure can. Weak starving plants are a magnet for BBA. Many times I see folks eliminate dosing in an effort to fight BBA....when they are only making it worse. Think growing plants, not defeating or starving BBA.

Maintenance. Maintenance. Maintenance. IME, uber clean conditions are the #1 way to avoid BBA. Keep dissolved organics as low as possible. Large regular water changes, vacuuming substrate to remove any built up detritus, regular filter cleanings, removal of any dead/decaying plant matter, good plant mass management (a little elbow room between species goes a long way!), regular plant trimming, don't overfeed, don't overstock, etc. etc. 

And here is the thing. If you have a problem with BBA, then you have got problems with your tank. Something is not right. Start looking carefully at every single aspect of your tank, and take the time to get everything right. And that means light/CO2/Ferts/Flow/Maintenance. Once you get a good balance, keep it there consistently.....and that means no slacking. 

Now these are just things I have observed over time, and come from my frame of reference. But I can tell you this......if I see ANY BBA anywhere, it gets my attention right away. The last time I had some, it was on my driftwood. I had just replaced a filter motor, and my flow was much higher, and the BBA developed right in the path of the highest flow. I drilled out my spray bars to create a more gentle flow, and as quickly as it appeared it receded. The point is sometimes it's a very small adjustment that can make the difference.

As always, just my experience and your mileage may vary.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> The common denominator for me in regards to BBA will always be organics. BBA will grow in both co2-enriched and non-co2 systems. It's all a matter of how much organics each system can handle based on your parameters. Maybe we need a BBA Likelihood Index or even a calculator. If you have high light, no co2, light plant mass, heavy stock your likelihood of co2 is 10 (10=being most likely). If you have low light, co2, heavy plant mass, light stock your likelihood index is 1 or 0.


When you say organics what exactly do you define that as? Wood? Fish food? Plant mass? And how could you test whether you have high organics or low?


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Weird but even in the tank I have BBA in it's in the highest and deadest zones of waterflow, nowhere in between. Maybe it likes things "just right" like Goldilocks! I rarely have problems with it, but it's so maddening the tank it's currently set up shop in. 125 gallon with 20 chili rasboras and Neo shrimp. Near zero bioload and the same tank, same filter, same lights, same substrate tank next to it has 75 white clouds and doesn't get a bit.



sfshrimp said:


> Was there wood in any of the tanks? I have really high current in my tank using a jet style outflow from an eheim cannister. My friend at the fish store says high current is bad. I had one experience where I had changed the filter from cannister to a really low-flow HOB, and all the BBA disappeared, but it also killed a bunch of fish because the filter could not handle the bioload.


Wood in every tank I own, pretty much. It's a desired place for BBA to stick to but removing it didn't work when it just grew on my wood in better times. I swear, I think @Greggz is onto something with the strong plants theory. Somehow if you outcomptete it from them, they can't even grow on unoccupied driftwood.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

sfshrimp said:


> When you say organics what exactly do you define that as? Wood? Fish food? Plant mass? And how could you test whether you have high organics or low?


Organics would be anything that will decompose and release toxins, ammonia. So of course fish waste/food and many don't think about it, but plants as well. As @Greggz points out about maintenance removing bad leaves/dying leaves is very important before they decompose and release ammonia, etc.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Weird but even in the tank I have BBA in it's in the highest and deadest zones of waterflow, nowhere in between. Maybe it likes things "just right" like Goldilocks!


Yep exactly my experience.

Too much or too little flow can be a problem. And getting it right is tricky and takes some trial and error and effort.


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## Shazwazer (Jan 28, 2011)

I recently won a battle with hair algae and at the end of that changed my lighting and all of a sudden see BBA becoming a problem.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> The common denominator for me in regards to BBA will always be organics. BBA will grow in both co2-enriched and non-co2 systems. It's all a matter of how much organics each system can handle based on your parameters. Maybe we need a BBA Likelihood Index or even a calculator. If you have high light, no co2, light plant mass, heavy stock your likelihood of co2 is 10 (10=being most likely). If you have low light, co2, heavy plant mass, light stock your likelihood index is 1 or 0.


I like the ideas going on in this thread. Another thing re: Greggz's post could be some kind of stationary we could design that is like a master checklist. The problem with this is so many things always change at one time that it's hard to pin point one specific thing. I have high flow and C02. My friend at the fish store never changes the water, and tells me that changing the water is bad because the tap water here in SF has ammonia in it. He only does top off, supplements with special blend, no tanks have c02, all tanks have super light weight filters (like a hob with low flow on a big tank), and all his tanks look awesome. Substrates are all inert sand with pebbles.

Things he has told me:

1). high current is bad
2). cannister filter is bad
3). high flow is bad
4). water changes are bad - only do top off
5). ph should be 6.8
6). nutrition should be in the substrate, not the water column
7). when doing water changes use special blend to mitigate ammonia
8). supplement water with disqus buffer + neutral ph to get to 6.8ph

There is no BBA in any of his tanks.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Disturb allelochemicals produced by plants and you get BBA.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

sfshrimp said:


> And around forty odd fish in a 12g long:
> 
> (16) black diamond cories
> (4) ember tetras
> ...


On a side note, i can't believe you have 40+ fish in a 12G Long (same tank I have), including a clown and dojo loach. I have 7 Black Neons, some otos, shrimp and I was considering adding a colorful school of something since my black neons have decided to become very shy again.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> On a side note, i can't believe you have 40+ fish in a 12G Long (same tank I have), including a clown and dojo loach. I have 7 Black Neons, some otos, shrimp and I was considering adding a colorful school of something since my black neons have decided to become very shy again.


Several of these fish I've had for years. Everyone is super healthy. I only buy from one vendor that I trust here in San Francisco that fully quarantines his live stock. I will take photos and update my tank journal. The dojo is 7" long and the clown + vietnamese are around 3". Also amazing is that the dojo is super gentle - doesn't eat the cories or mess with the other fish. The black diamond cories shoal up, it's cool to see them in a clique. Unfortunately cannot keep any shrimp with the current inhabitants, but at one point my tank was shrimp only and up to a colony of 300+.

Bump:


Edward said:


> Disturb allelochemicals produced by plants and you get BBA.


Ok, but can you explain in English? I'm not a biochem major.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

sfshrimp said:


> ....
> 
> Things he has told me:
> 
> ...


The problem with this list is it's not really planted tank focused. You couldn't run the majority of setups you see here this way.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> The problem with this list is it's not really planted tank focused. You couldn't run the majority of setups you see here this way.


But all his tanks are heavily planted... You can look it up on youtube. "Ocean Aquarium San Francisco"

Bump:


Asteroid said:


> Organics would be anything that will decompose and release toxins, ammonia. So of course fish waste/food and many don't think about it, but plants as well. As @Greggz points out about maintenance removing bad leaves/dying leaves is very important before they decompose and release ammonia, etc.


So in my new tank setup I have two ripped up Almond leaves. Is that going to cause BBA? I guess let's wait and see... But what do you guys think?

Bump:


Asteroid said:


> The problem with this list is it's not really planted tank focused. You couldn't run the majority of setups you see here this way.


It's basically a tweaked walsted style.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

sfshrimp said:


> But all his tanks are heavily planted... You can look it up on youtube. "Ocean Aquarium San Francisco"


Well I just viewed the Ocean Aquarium Tour video and as I expected, pretty much ALL tanks are low-light with mostly moss and other easy grow plants. They don't reflect anywhere near the scope of planted tanks that would work with the methodology described.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Hmm. U know, I saw this thread a couple days ago and thought for sure it was bait for another vehement argument thread. Surprisingly, it is anything but. I also thought to say that, no, we are where we were before. But, standing far enough back, I can see the common denominator surfacing in all the posts. And @Greggz and a few others touched upon it. 

Strong, healthy plants. That's your answer.

I suppose saying that is almost useless as it gives no direction on how to get there. As enigmatic as Tom Barr used to say, (i probably paraphrased ) grow the plants, don't fight the algae. Took me a while to somewhat interpret what that really meant. I mean, how do I grow the plants if the algae is interrupting and overruning? Over the years since, I think he means focus on strong, healthy plants -- also mentioned by Greggz earlier. Do whatever it takes in your tank to get your plants to that state and it will take care of the algae for you--even more so in the case of BBA. Sure, if you're overrun, by all means, do something drastic to eliminate the infestation, but after that, pay attention to the plants and listen to what they want. I feel that no matter who posted, whatever their conditions, whatever their process, getting their plants to a healthy state simply counteracts bba. The solutions all seem so contradictory only because our tanks are so contradictory. One must find what the plants want in their style of tank and when one finds that balance, the plants begin to work. 

My tank is overdue for a water change and even more overdue for a trimming. Priorities in life along with a dose of slacking had taught me that I can coexist with a little BBA. A few tufts here and there along some sadder mosses in the path of flow perhaps accumulating some organics. They also hide out deep in the midst of that monte carlo patch. 

























But, that's all they do. When they're tired or have grown through their cycle, they grey out and fade away. Or I do a little reaping during my water change. Those pictured tufts are in there right now and will probably be there until my next water change -- hopefully by the end of the week. The point is, I've not found the need to "scorch earth" them. Not even excel or h2o2 anymore. My plants seemingly keep them at bay. 










Am I tempting fate? Perhaps. There definitely was a time when I dreadfully feared BBA. In remembrance and humility to the strength of nature, I shall knock on some wood now. So your answer is strong, healthy plants with a little superstition and luck peppered in.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

ipkiss said:


> Hmm. U know, I saw this thread a couple days ago and thought for sure it was bait for another vehement argument thread. Surprisingly, it is anything but. I also thought to say that, no, we are where we were before. But, standing far enough back, I can see the common denominator surfacing in all the posts. And @Greggz and a few others touched upon it.
> 
> Strong, healthy plants. That's your answer.
> 
> ...


I haven't been on this forum in a few years. My intention was to stir the pot, but it's cool that the pot has not been stirred, and a rather inflective discussion emerged. It's a hard hobby, and one that is maybe mastered over years. I do think there is a way to figure this out maybe, and certainly I've seen the heated discussions about this or that there are right ways to do things or not. I must admit I'm on a selfish understanding journey since I changed my tank layout and expunged all the old wood, plants, etc. hoping the bba doesn't come back.

Bump: @
;


Asteroid said:


> Well I just viewed the Ocean Aquarium Tour video and as I expected, pretty much ALL tanks are low-light with mostly moss and other easy grow plants. They don't reflect anywhere near the scope of planted tanks that would work with the methodology described.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCUKeBEZoo8


He has almost all plants and the tanks looks great in person, video or not. There is also an ADA sponsored store in town up the street. Have seen tons of BBA there and yes, they might have some "show" style tanks like in the magazines, but who knows what they do on those. They even have a new giant tank which faces their window glass. I'm sure that tank's vegitation was informed by the amount of light facing that glass.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

ipkiss said:


> Hmm. U know, I saw this thread a couple days ago and thought for sure it was bait for another vehement argument thread. Surprisingly, it is anything but. I also thought to say that, no, we are where we were before. But, standing far enough back, I can see the common denominator surfacing in all the posts. And @Greggz and a few others touched upon it.
> 
> Strong, healthy plants. That's your answer.
> 
> ...


Also, do you believe plants have a memory or rather a life cycle? I had several specimans of pennywort which once thrived, but then held on, always decayed from BBA and never could get off ground. I sort of believe this which is why I removed all my old plants. The java ferns would reproduce, but never with the same vigor as the first time they grew strong and firm.


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## Randy_Cook (Oct 22, 2019)

sfshrimp said:


> Also, do you believe plants have a memory or rather a life cycle? I had several specimans of pennywort which once thrived, but then held on, always decayed from BBA and never could get off ground. I sort of believe this which is why I removed all my old plants. The java ferns would reproduce, but never with the same vigor as the first time they grew strong and firm.


A form of memory yes, in that genetic and metagenetic traits get passed on to new cells. New cells also get their dose of conditioning from existing signals in the plant.

But what you describe has more to do with nutrient storage. Plants at nurseries are well fed and come to fish stores with nutrient reserves. If you are lucky enough, you buy them fast they grow for a while. Sooner or later or never (depending on light, CO2, fertilizer, water) storage of one or more nutrients runs out, plant begins stressing... Lower poorer growth, absorbing old tissues etc. That damaged tissue leaks organics and is a great substrate to develop BBA. So it's not that the plant decayed from BBA, but BBA took advantage of the local increase in organics (see Greggz post on growing healthy plants). 

Sent from my JSN-L22 using Tapatalk


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Randy_Cook said:


> A form of memory yes, in that genetic and metagenetic traits get passed on to new cells. New cells also get their dose of conditioning from existing signals in the plant.
> 
> But what you describe has more to do with nutrient storage. Plants at nurseries are well fed and come to fish stores with nutrient reserves. If you are lucky enough, you buy them fast they grow for a while. Sooner or later or never (depending on light, CO2, fertilizer, water) storage of one or more nutrients runs out, plant begins stressing... Lower poorer growth, absorbing old tissues etc. That damaged tissue leaks organics and is a great substrate to develop BBA. So it's not that the plant decayed from BBA, but BBA took advantage of the local increase in organics (see Greggz post on growing healthy plants).
> 
> Sent from my JSN-L22 using Tapatalk


I buy this. But at what point can a home owner do the plant? I suspect you are talking about larger farm tanks... I do believe that the BBA preys on tissue, but we still are not further into this game unless out competing is the goal. I really do think this puzzle can be solved.


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## Randy_Cook (Oct 22, 2019)

sfshrimp said:


> I buy this. But at what point can a home owner do the plant? I suspect you are talking about larger farm tanks... I do believe that the BBA preys on tissue, but we still are not further into this game unless out competing is the goal. I really do think this puzzle can be solved.


When, has too many variables to be able to estimate. For example, a hardy plant even in the absence of phosphate addition to the high tech aquarium, can take several weeks for the symptoms to manifest. Symptoms that to an inattentive eye might be overlooked, especially when healthy lush growth is missing as comparison. Two manifestations, a lower leaf size and less growth would be easy to miss, exploited by fertilizers approach that dose very low phosphate. Add in that most systems add fish food... a long discussion better reserved for another thread.

Back to BBA, I don't see any indication we can speak of predation, maybe parasitims? But as you say hard at this point to differentiate from simple colonization of damaged tissue due to deficiency, abiotic factors, bacteria etc. A quick indication should be the ability of BBA to colonize any hard surface.. Rocks, wood, glass, silicone have already been mentioned 

It would be great to solve the puzzle, even if you have to build a 3D model around it for a solution. 

Sent from my JSN-L22 using Tapatalk


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

sfshrimp said:


> Ok, but can you explain in English? I'm not a biochem major.


This is going to take us on a slightly different tack toward the control of BBA, but allelochemicals are chemicals produced by plants that are designed to suppress other plant life nearby so that the producing plant has no competition. They have been proven to exist in the terrestrial world and are strongly suspected to exist in the aquatic world, but proof has been elusive. In our case, we are hoping for plants that will produce chemicals that will kill algae. As I recall, anacharis is a plant that has shown the strongest possibility of this process. Allelopathy is a relied-upon part of the Walstad method. 

I believe that @Edward was implying that, if allelopathy exists and is active enough to control algae, unhealthy plants will be disrupted in their ability to produce these chemicals, but he will have to clarify this if I'm interpreting him incorrectly. Perhaps, another implication here is that we do too many water changes, which would dilute these allelochemicals. So, in a sense,we are back to the prime objective of ensuring healthy plants.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

ipkiss said:


> ....
> 
> My tank is overdue for a water change and even more overdue for a trimming. Priorities in life along with a dose of slacking had taught me that I can coexist with a little BBA. A few tufts here and there along some sadder mosses in the path of flow perhaps accumulating some organics. They also hide out deep in the midst of that monte carlo patch.


This is so true for many. The BBA comes out when we slack off from a daily routine. Many who come here with BBA all of a sudden have it appearing after having a BBA free tank probably do this over time, it's just human nature and yes life gets in the way. Lifestyle and time spend obviously tied to the whole maintenance thing. 

I do also agree that healthy plants play a large role, but as i stated earlier you can't always rely on plant mass since it doesn't cover every tank. That's why for me the main culprit is organics and how they are controlled, removed, processed. Usually more water changes, better maintenance or if you believe in the awesome power of allelochemicals then do the opposite.

EDIT: Posted same time as @Deanna


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

sfshrimp said:


> Things he has told me:
> 
> 1). high current is bad
> 2). cannister filter is bad
> ...


Yeah there are many set ups that can avoid BBA.

In this case, the thing he is leaving out is light. All of those plants are low light very slow growers. And nothing wrong with that. But looking at the video there is a VERY low level of light. Many of those plants would grow in a bucket left in a closet.......slowly, but no algae and healthy.

Current/flow/canister are all the same, he's keeping the flow low. Add a power head to one of those tanks and see what happens. Low pH is good for most plants. Not a deal breaker, but tilts things in your favor. If there is truly ammonia in the source water, then yes good to avoid it. 

And he has managed to create a good environment for those slow growing plants. Good, but not great. If you look closely you can many plants that appear to be deficient in something. Alive, but not in peak health. And put some more difficult high light loving fast growing flowery stems in there.....and well you can probably guess what happens.

IME, better to stay very low light or go all in. Once you increase light energy and add stems, you need to start getting all the others details right. Not that mixing low light/high light species can't be done, but it is tricky. 

I speak of this from personal experience. I kept low light (crypts/swords/anubias/ferns/etc) plants for decades. The key for me was keeping the light very low. When I decided to branch out and add a few stems, it didn't work out too well at first. They would do well for weeks or a month, and then like mentioned above they ran out of their reserves and started to whither. So then I decided to get a new light. Stems did slightly better, but slow growers were easy targets for algae in the higher light. 

Then I decided to add CO2, more ferts, and more light. It was entirely new ball game for the stems, but one by one I ended up removing every low light plant over time. 

So my point is, this discussion needs to be taken in the context of your goals and the type of tank you want and the plants you are keeping. To me, low light tanks were easy. Keep the light very low, and expect VERY slow but healthy growth. I had crypts/swords that were giants, with root systems that spanned the entire tank. But I did not move them and it took years sitting in the same place to get that way. But if you start adding more light and colorful stems you better start taking every other aspect more seriously or you can have a disaster. And the more light you add, the finer that line becomes, and the further out on the tightrope you are.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

sfshrimp said:


> ...
> He has almost all plants and the tanks looks great in person, video or not. There is also an ADA sponsored store in town up the street. Have seen tons of BBA there and yes, they might have some "show" style tanks like in the magazines, but who knows what they do on those. They even have a new giant tank which faces their window glass. I'm sure that tank's vegitation was informed by the amount of light facing that glass.


Not saying it's not a very nice store, just stating that you can't grow many plants that way. Not without co2 and higher light. The tanks look good and have a natural look to them. it's like saying the walstad method is good for everything, it's not. It has it's place in the planted tank world.

Firstly, I'm envious that you have multiple planted tank stores on one street. If your referring to the other store that probably starts with an A and ends with a T, yes they are an ADA distributor/reseller. Any tank can get BBA/Algae. The more light your using the more maintenance is probably needed to keep it algae clean. Even ADA sells tools to remove algae They actually have a tool called the Pro Picker. It's specifically designed to remove BBA from hardscape. 

*Description
Pro Picker is a tool to remove algae stuck on the driftwood and stones. Even the black beard type algae can be scraped off without trouble. It can remove the algae at detailed place where could not brush by toothbrush or nail, such as the end of driftwood or the spot on stone.*


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Asteroid said:


> Not saying it's not a very nice store, just stating that you can't grow many plants that way. Not without co2 and higher light. The tanks look good and have a natural look to them. it's like saying the walstad method is good for everything, it's not. It has it's place in the planted tank world.
> 
> Firstly, I'm envious that you have multiple planted tank stores on one street. If your referring to the other store that probably starts with an A and ends with a T, yes they are an ADA distributor/reseller. Any tank can get BBA/Algae. The more light your using the more maintenance is probably needed to keep it algae clean. Even ADA sells tools to remove algae They actually have a tool called the Pro Picker. It's specifically designed to remove BBA from hardscape.
> 
> ...


There is a much easier way to remove algae from hardscape, presuming that the hardscape can be removed from the tank. Put your hardscape in a bucket, immerse it in the cheap H2O2 that you buy in a grocery store and wait 24 hours. ALL types of algae will be reduced to brown mush that can easily be brushed off in running water.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Deanna said:


> There is a much easier way to remove algae from hardscape, presuming that the hardscape can be removed from the tank. Put your hardscape in a bucket, immerse it in the cheap H2O2 that you buy in a grocery store and wait 24 hours. ALL types of algae will be reduced to brown mush that can easily be brushed off in running water.


I completely agree. I was just pointing out even if you follow ADA Dogma to the letter, you can still expect algae at some point. When I first started out I actually bought a Pro Picker. Used it a couple of times when I did have BBA issues. If anyone wants to buy it, cheap, feel free to PM me, although after you comment I'll have to sell it REALLY cheap, LOL.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

We all agree that BBA hates healthy plants.

Fish only aquariums also have BBA and there is nothing we can do to get rid of it, unless we poison it or mechanically remove it. But in planted aquariums, we can take better care of plants and BBA dies. Why.

One opinion is, BBA dies because plants remove nutrients and pollutants from water. Well, with fish only aquariums we can run carbon and ion exchanger to remove everything from the water and BBA will still be there. 

Clearly, it is not what plants remove but what plants release. Plants are actively trying to poison competing organisms and so does algae. Take better care of your plants and they will poison the algae. Somehow, BBA is the most resistant algae and often starts growing after all the other types are gone. 

Plants produce and release complex chemical compounds that are proven to be toxic to algae. The best list of almost 100 scientific studies is in @Dianna Walstad book. 

And for the sceptics: Do you really believe that algae is scared to death by seeing healthy plants?


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

We need a grad student looking for a thesis project.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Pro-tip: If you want to use a VPN to create a duplicate account? Make sure it's not some crap freebie that leaks your data. :grin2:

Now that that's out of the way... I highly encourage each of you to back up a taste and check yourselves. You start insulting other members, the moderation team will permanently ban you and make things difficult for you with your internet service provider(s) because you've repeatedly violated our Acceptable Use Policy. Enough is enough.

No, the few of you pot-stirrers probably aren't afraid of having your ISP contacted but it'll certainly make your life difficult for a while - especially if you're using your mobile service. So think twice before starting nonsense. We've held people accountable before and we'll do it again. Note: Nearly every VPN provider has a provision regarding abuse of services. So think very carefully before spouting off. Because I've personally had enough and the moderation team as a whole has had enough. I also have nothing better to do than put an end to drama today.

*ENOUGH.*


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

In addition to what somewhatshocked has said, I have gone through, cleaned up this thread so that *civil* discussion can continue. 

Further derailment of discussion that leads to bickering will result in this thread being closed and not reopened again.


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## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

So first thanks mods I came to check in on this for myself as I have an odd bba prone tank and checked back out... thanks for the clean up.

On another note, not my thread and I'm here as I have 1 tank in particular that seems to get it more and more frequently. I'm going to try the focus on the plants line of thinking on this as I'm almost entirely sure that's fallen back because of my bba fears. And I know that method works for so many others buy bba is a tough one to nuke once it's there and I'm about half scared of it when it's gone since it is my main display tank. Would absolutely explain why my other tanks I worry less about don't suffer from it and the couple occasions it popped somewhere else it just faded off as quickly.... I dont fight it in other tanks but I do in the one that gets in. New approach incoming for some more anecdotal opinions on personal experiences. 

Thank for some insight into everyone's experience I'll take the common denominator and try it for myself. 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

It's actually easy to nuke w/ Gluteraldehyde..
Keeping it from coming back is the hard part..

free ammonia allows algae spores to germinate..be it from plant decay ect..
After germination the growth phase can utilize other nitrogen sources..

Now the other key seems to be CO2..


> BBA is mostly a CO2 issue for 95% of folk's aquarium.
> I've had high DOC, organics etc, but..............I also had good gas exchange and enough O2.
> Bacteria is able to break things down under those conditions.
> 
> ...





> Barr report suggests that BBA strives when CO2 is present but at low levels; between 10-15ppm. Non injected tanks (low tech tanks) and tanks with higher levels of CO2 are less vulnerable - to this end, it seems to occur most often in tanks where CO2 injection is used but optimized poorly.
> 
> Has no connection to nutrient levels or light spectrum unlike what some folks think.


https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/control-algae-types.html
https://barrreport.com/threads/what-bba-can’t-stand.14995/page-2


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Deanna said:


> I can induce BBA with a sudden increase in light and then maintain the BBA for several weeks (during re-balancing). I think I'll try doing water changes only if certain organic-type nutrients start heading too high (I know you like TDS as a guide and I'll keep my eye on that, as well), which will mean very infrequent water changes (I do 30% weekly now). This should keep plants healthy and allow allelochemicals to accumulate. Then, add the strong light and subjectively compare BBA growth to previous inducements. I realize that this is far from scientific but, if I have success, it will convince me that there may be allelopathy involved. Unfortunately, if I don't have success, it will not necessarily rule out allelopathy.
> 
> Until someone can actually isolate such chemicals and successfully test them, such as was done with Tenacity in the terrestrial world, we may never know for sure.


 Interesting idea. Is it increasing light intensity, photoperiod or both? I have 2 x 250W metal halide 4” / 10 cm above water and no algae. But when I leave one tiny 4W LED on 24 / 7 in the corner, BBA shows up. It is so bizarre.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Edward said:


> Interesting idea. Is it increasing light intensity, photoperiod or both? I have 2 x 250W metal halide 4” / 10 cm above water and no algae. But when I leave one tiny 4W LED on 24 / 7 in the corner, BBA shows up. It is so bizarre.


Not sure why this is argued in single variables, like light. There will NEVER be an answer that way. It's the whole setup. Light intensity or duration might not be an issue in one tank, but could be in the next, based on the usual (organics, plant mass, stocking, yada, yada.) 

Every tank will have a different threshold on what it can tolerate, before that threshold is breached and algae spores have what they need to get going. This in IMO is why this topic keeps going and going. If one takes all these variables into account from the getgo you stand a much better chance of never having BBA or any algae for that matter.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Asteroid said:


> Not sure why this is argued in single variables, like light. There will NEVER be an answer that way.


 Because @Deanna and I enjoy experiments and now you know it.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Edward said:


> Interesting idea. Is it increasing light intensity, photoperiod or both? I have 2 x 250W metal halide 4” / 10 cm above water and no algae. But when I leave one tiny 4W LED on 24 / 7 in the corner, BBA shows up. It is so bizarre.





Asteroid said:


> Not sure why this is argued in single variables, like light. There will NEVER be an answer that way. It's the whole setup. Light intensity or duration might not be an issue in one tank, but could be in the next, based on the usual (organics, plant mass, stocking, yada, yada.)


I probably should have elaborated on this. Adding an additional 50 PAR, daily, causes the destabilization cascade. It's not that the light, alone, is driving the BBA (AFAIK). There are many such variables that if suddenly and persistently are changed will cause such an effect, e.g.; eliminate potassium and see what happens.

Odd about the LED. I can't imagine that would be enough to destabilize the entire tank. Is the BBA only appearing in that corner or through the entire tank when the LED is added?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Asteroid said:


> Not sure why this is argued in single variables, like light. There will NEVER be an answer that way. It's the whole setup. Light intensity or duration might not be an issue in one tank, but could be in the next, based on the usual (organics, plant mass, stocking, yada, yada.)


Agree with above. 

There is no single answer.

Each tank needs to be looked at in it's entirety with a holistic approach.

In my example earlier, I induced BBA by increasing flow. I beat it back by reducing flow.

Does that mean too much flow causes BBA? No. But it did in MY tank. Does that mean that every tank that has BBA has too much flow? No. Again it's only what happened in my particular eco system. 

But here's the thing. No one has a single method that defeats BBA. 

And while imperfect, all we really have to go by is anecdotal evidence. That's what makes this forum so valuable. Folks share their experience, and most everyone freely shares pics so that you can better understand their tank and see their results. 

That common experience (both success and failures) collectively offers clues that are useful. If you read that many people reduced BBA by increasing water changes, keeping filters clean, and upping in their maintenance........maybe that is something to try.

If you read that many people reduced BBA by lowering their light intensity.....might want to think about trying that too. 

If you read that some folks reduced fert dosing and things got worse......might want to try to dosing more. 

Heck I've tried all kinds of things over the years. They are all documented with pictures to show the results. Some worked.....and some didn't.

I can tell you one thing for sure. The happier and healthier your plants are the less issues you will have with algae. It loves weak dying plants and hates healthy growing ones. And that is true for all algae, not just BBA.

P.S. Glad to see the thread survived, and good to hear everyone's thoughts. Hopefully all this gives someone an idea to try and it works.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Deanna said:


> I probably should have elaborated on this. Adding an additional 50 PAR, daily, causes the destabilization cascade. It's not that the light, alone, is driving the BBA (AFAIK). There are many such variables that if suddenly and persistently are changed will cause such an effect, e.g.; eliminate potassium and see what happens.


 So your plan is to increase light intensity. 
And of course the cause is not just the light. The purpose here is to see how happy the BBA is going to be in the “other water”.


> Odd about the LED. I can't imagine that would be enough to destabilize the entire tank. Is the BBA only appearing in that corner or through the entire tank when the LED is added?


 No, not the whole aquarium. Only close to the light bulb. But you know, the LED is like a candle light compare to the 500W electric arc, welding arc. 

When I have done these “other water” home experiments, it could take six weeks and then BBA turns red and turns to dust.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

To be honest, unless it’s extreme or growing on plants, I usually ignore BBA. I’ve found that keeping a clean filter, sucking up as much floating plant matter and detritus as possible, and basic plant maintenance like pruning and thinning, keeps BBA at bay. Even my slow growing crypts require weekly pruning.

If I get a break out, it’s usually because of organics in my case. It’s an indicator to do a thorough cleaning of both the tank and filter, if it’s only a tuft here and there I’ll zap it with peroxide or Excel, if it’s a decent amount then I start cutting out all the plant matter that is affected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Since we're talking about BBA, I have a few tufts of BBA on the driftwood and on the sponge covering my hob filter intake. Haven't noticed it growing on my plants, which is a relief. I have never really dealt with BBA before but I suspect that the reason I have BBA is because of organics in the water from when I accidentally uprooted a bunch of plants a few weeks ago. I was thinking of dripping a bit of Excel directly on the affected parts during my weekly water change and dealing with it bit by bit every week because I don't want too much Excel in the water (it's a tiny tank!). Does this sound like a good idea? Or should I leave the BBA alone and hope it goes away as I maintain and clean the tank regularly? It looks to be in control now but I'd hate for it to explode suddenly.

Cheers.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

chicken.nublet said:


> Since we're talking about BBA, I have a few tufts of BBA on the driftwood and on the sponge covering my hob filter intake. Haven't noticed it growing on my plants, which is a relief. I have never really dealt with BBA before but I suspect that the reason I have BBA is because of organics in the water from when I accidentally uprooted a bunch of plants a few weeks ago. I was thinking of dripping a bit of Excel directly on the affected parts during my weekly water change and dealing with it bit by bit every week because I don't want too much Excel in the water (it's a tiny tank!). Does this sound like a good idea? Or should I leave the BBA alone and hope it goes away as I maintain and clean the tank regularly? It looks to be in control now but I'd hate for it to explode suddenly.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers.




In my experience, the only way to get existing BBA to “go away” is to get a creature that eats it, kill it, or physically remove it. Even if you fix the underlying issue, what exists doesn’t go away without some form of manual removal. Just my experience. I know some people say they’ve witnessed it disappear when they crank up the co2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> In my experience, the only way to get existing BBA to “go away” is to get a creature that eats it, kill it, or physically remove it. Even if you fix the underlying issue, what exists doesn’t go away without some form of manual removal. Just my experience. I know some people say they’ve witnessed it disappear when they crank up the co2.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks varanidguy, I guess I'll have to go with the Excel. I'll lower the water level more than usual next water change and dribble a couple drops of Excel on the wood. I might change the sponge intake as well. Cheers!


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

varanidguy said:


> In my experience, the only way to get existing BBA to “go away” is to get a creature that eats it, kill it, or physically remove it.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What creatures will reliably eat BBA? I've read that Siamese Algae Eaters will. But apparently some are better than others, and some grow from algae-eating juveniles into large, carnivorous adults. The various species look very similar when young and often mislabeled, so it's hard to know what you're really getting...


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Contrary to what some of the expert sites state, BBA doesn't discriminate between co2 and non-co2 tanks. Most non co2-tanks have lower light and it simply takes longer to develop, but once it does it can take over a tank. Most experts don't let their tanks get to that state and are VERY on top of maintenance so the chance of BBA showing up on one of their low light tanks is minimal. Any tank, whether it's planted or not the two things they have in common are light and organic load. Co2, ferts, etc in planted tanks can change uptake so they of course factor in there.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Desert Pupfish said:


> What creatures will reliably eat BBA? I've read that Siamese Algae Eaters will. But apparently some are better than others, and some grow from algae-eating juveniles into large, carnivorous adults. The various species look very similar when young and often mislabeled, so it's hard to know what you're really getting...




IME, true SAE’s are always munching on stuff and did eat BBA very well, even at 5ish inches. Until he jumped .

Other creatures would be American flag fish, black mollies (not sure why other colors wouldn’t either), and amano shrimp, with the caveat that amanos don’t touch it until it’s been killed/weakened.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> I...and amano shrimp, with the caveat that amanos don’t touch it until it’s been killed/weakened.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting thing about BBA and Amanos. _In the Book of ADA_ it states to remove BBA from rocks with their infamous Pro Picker (BBA still in tank but not attached) and then put Amanos in. So do they not like healthy BBA or they simply can't physically remove it from rocks/hardscape.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Asteroid said:


> Interesting thing about BBA and Amanos. _In the Book of ADA_ it states to remove BBA from rocks with their infamous Pro Picker (BBA still in tank but not attached) and then put Amanos in. So do they not like healthy BBA or they simply can't physically remove it from rocks/hardscape.


That is very interesting...and kind of shows just how tough BBA really is. I've seen amanos completely decimate other types of hair algae, but BBA, unless it's weakened, is perfectly fine.


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## Leeatl (Aug 8, 2015)

I have noticed that once I hit the BBA with an Excel/H2O2 spot treatment and it starts to die my Platys will pick at it . Using algae eaters is of no use for BBA . You are just adding to the bioload and maybe making things more beneficial for BBA .


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## Epitaph (Nov 28, 2007)

For those that aren't breeding shrimps, you can try the silver flying fox(Crossocheilus reticulatus). They are more voracious than the SAE and still goes after BBA after reaching adulthood(no starving required). I recommend just keeping 1 or a group of 6+ if your aquarium size allows as they create a pecking order and shoal together. They reach on average 4-5" in a aquarium and are very hardy as long as your aquarium is well oxygenated. I had a tank that was neglected for months and had BBA all over the aquarium walls, driftwood, and plants(tank was pitch black and can't even see through the walls). I added some SFF and black racer nerites and now the tank is all clear except some BBA tufts at the power cables of my circulation pumps where it sits near the water surface. There is also no need to add any chemicals to weaken the BBA first. I have to lengthen the photoperiod and feed more veg-based foods for them now.

I suggest SFFs for clearing BBA off plants, hardscape, and substrate and nerites for clearing BBA off aquarium walls. The problems with nerites are they are slow and move randomly so it takes a while before you could see any noticeable progress. It is a shame the silver flying fox are not common in the US and gets overshadowed by the SAE and other common algae eaters, but I'm starting to see them more often at LFS and online stores now; good pricing too. The silver flying fox is the most efficient algae eater so far IMO.


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## saltdiscus (Aug 15, 2013)

This is my experience with bba.I was reading this post and others for getting rid of bba.I had canister filters with high nitrate and my filter wasn't doing good job on cleaning debris and dead leaves. I upgraded to full sump and got rid of canister filter. Now after 1 week and 2 wc BBA is gone.I can't see any bba anywhere.I was also dosing 3ml metricide per day.I don't know if it was dosing or sump or both that completely cleaned my BBA.


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