# Fin Rot: When to do a salt bath?



## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

A salt bath treatment consists of a continuous low dose of salt added directly to aquarium. With this you would add 1 tsp aquarium/non-iodized salt per gallon for 10 days. Make sure to dissolve the salt first in a cup of aquarium water before adding to aquarium so that the Betta is not burned by direct contact with salt.

Each time do a water change ( daily is best) add back amount of salt taken out. For instance, if do a 50% water change, add back 1/2 dose per gallon of salt. 

If you are seeing rapid changes in fins from rot then I would go right to the salt treatment. Or, if the changes to fins have been over time and you want to try water changes first- that's fine too. If do water changes alone, do so for 5 days and if no improvement then go to salt treatment. 

Salt is very therapeutic for Bettafish, much more so than for many other species we keep in aquarium-- so it will not harm, only benefit.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

I figured a bath would be brief like a dip, in a quarantine; I didn't know it was done inside the tank itself. I'm worried my plants will suffer if I dose the tank directly, but then, I can always get more plants--there's only one of my betta.

#1. How many water changes a day? Can I do a 50% water change daily or do I need to do two 25% water changes spread out?

#2. I do the salt bath once a day, correct? I was thinking right after a water change--I would reduce the dosage based on the amount of water removed, as you said.

I just performed a 50% water change so I'll add the salt now. The fin rot was very sudden and progressed over night to the pictures above, so I definitely would like to act fast and prevent it from getting to his body.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Ryan Mosby said:


> I figured a bath would be brief like a dip, in a quarantine; I didn't know it was done inside the tank itself. I'm worried my plants will suffer if I dose the tank directly, but then, I can always get more plants--there's only one of my betta.
> 
> 
> A lower dose, prolonged exposure to salt is considered a bath. It can be anywhere from 24 hours to 10 days. Depends on why using treatment.
> ...


_I think this is smart. Better safe than sorry. _

I added some text directly under your questions in _italics. _


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Will activated carbon affect the usefulness of the aquarium salt? I can remove the carbon if it does.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Ryan Mosby said:


> Will activated carbon affect the usefulness of the aquarium salt? I can remove the carbon if it does.


No, its fine to leave carbon in.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

@Discusluv Once ten days have passed, how often should the water change and salt baths be?

Edit: I realized I messed up the salt calculations. Instead of 5 tsp for my 5 gallon, I initially dosed with 1 Tbs/3 tsp, underdosing the salt bath. Every time I did a daily 50% water change, I put in 0.5 Tbs/1.5 tsp instead of 2.5 tsp.

A few days into the treatment his fins stopped getting worse, and the red lining has gone away.

Do I dose (at the accurate dosage) and add on a few more days?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Ryan Mosby said:


> @*Discusluv* Once ten days have passed, how often should the water change and salt baths be?
> 
> Edit: I realized I messed up the salt calculations. Instead of 5 tsp for my 5 gallon, I initially dosed with 1 Tbs/3 tsp, underdosing the salt bath. Every time I did a daily 50% water change, I put in 0.5 Tbs/1.5 tsp instead of 2.5 tsp.
> 
> ...


 Good to hear your Betta on the mend. Do the salt bath for 10 days total- the days when used the insufficient amount of salt can be included in this total because you have seen improvement despite that.
Then, change water as often as necessary to keep nitrates under 20ppm.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

Im happy to hear he is on the mend. I had a fish come in with fin rot... I used a salt bath and meds and it cleared up; however it did hurt some of my plants. It was a trepidation time, but its all ok now.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

@livebearerlove Yeah, I was concerned about the plants, but I figure it's better to replace any that die than risk the health of my betta. At this point I'm trying to figure out how I'll detect further rot or healing if the changes are slow.

The bloody red lining around the caudal fin that developed quickly disappeared a few days into the bath treatments. A month ago he did develop some faint red on his pelvis fins, then on his tail. I had come to the forums and they said it was more likely some coloring coming in. I can't see any red on his tail anymore, but the pectoral fins still have 

Some time ago he developed some faint red on his ventral and caudal fins. I went to the forum, concerned that it was blood, and was told it was likely some coloring coming in. I realized he had fin rot when more than a week ago I saw his tail was missing chunks on the edges and lined with a dark bloody color in some areas. This disappeared a few days into the salt treatments, and the faint red on his tail has seemed to disappear too. However, the red seems more pronounced now on his ventral and pectoral fins. Not on the edges, but in the middle of the fins. I still don't know if this is from fin rot or coloring.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

@Ryan Mosby
Oh dear... You have been working so hard. I have had limited amount of sick fish...
I learned two things: 'failure to thrive' or 'failure in your environment'
I know you re being diligent and deserve an award for it at this point.... Those gills look red. I always look at gills- they can say a lot about health. Excessive ammonia, etc. I know for a fact you are testing it. But could you test be old?

I say this because: I had Ick once. I was devastated. 6 years later.... another sick fish I didnt quarantine, I thought for sure it was some sort of mouth fungus and fin rot... but I changed all the water over and over in the tank....... she is more than fine now, she is prego! 
Finally realized it was my KH/GH fluctuations that caused the pH to spike up and down with light and caused stress and led to problems. I corrected it and added a liquid vitamin, and she is wonderfully and strong.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

livebearerlove said:


> Those gills look red. I always look at gills- they can say a lot about health. Excessive ammonia, etc. I know for a fact you are testing it. But could you test be old?


He does have some red on his gills, and has for several months. I'm not sure if this is because he's white in color or a sign of high ammonia. What levels would be considered high? I got a new ammonia test and confirmed both it and the older one work. Ammonia was listed today as 0.5. The last water change I did on the tank was two days ago.

At this point, I'm not sure if the 0.5 ppm of ammonia is an issue, but I think _nitrites_ might be. I reviewed my parameters for the last two years and found them occasionally recorded as 0.5 ppm.

Sometimes the nitrates are also listed as higher than 10 ppm (but lower than 40) though the test says that this range (and the 0-0.5 ppm of ammonia) are still within safe levels.

TDS has skyrocketed due to the salt baths.

Water Parameters - 04/11/2019
Nitrate: 10 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
GH: 8.4
Chlorine: 0
KH: 0
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: 0-0.5
TDS: 147 (x10) 1470ppm
Temperature: 79.9


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

@Ryan Mosby
*Any ammonia* I consider high with delicate fish (or fish with compromised immune systems, elderly, fry). 
Im my case, I had a tank of 'other people rejects' that I would try to nurse back to health. I allowed my ammonia to get to .25 and my fishhie friends flipped out. I could always tell as they seemed agitated and gills would get red. Without enough plants to use the Nitrates, the nitrates also spiked. So my solution was quite litteraly a water change daily and that gave the biofilter time to establish back to where it was before.... Now they are great, but those same ones are the first to show signs if I overfeed or skip a water change.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

@livebearerlove @Discusluv His fins haven't been doing any worse, but lately he has been listing about like he has swim bladder disease. I haven't fed him for two days and he hasn't showed any signs of improvement. Recently he's been really lethargic and hiding a lot. After a large water change, he had trouble breaking away from the surface. Now he's trying to pin himself under some driftwood to keep from floating upward.

I'm going to buy some peas and blanch one for him. Should I also add some aquarium salt?


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## etam (Dec 26, 2015)

With the peas, you should look up an epsom salt bath for fish, I've had success with epsom salt baths when swim bladder / bloating didnt go away for my fish.

In terms of the fin rot, water changes and some Melafix should heal him right up. I use Melafix every time my betta decides to bite off chunks of his tail.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

He won't eat any bit of the pea, which is very alarming since he's usually very opportunistic. Went to the grocery store to get epsom salt and what they had wasn't pure (had stuff like fragrance in it) so I'll have to visit my LFS. How much epsom salt do I add to the tank? I've read contrasting advice from 5 tsp for 5 gallons to 1.5 tsp per 5 gallons.

Update: There's a problem; my LFS has closed for tonight, I'd have to get it tomorrow. I'm really worried if he'll even make it that long. I really hope he does manage to poop tonight.

Update #2: I remembered the grocery store's website had multiple listings of epsom salt. I went through them and found the one with only epsom salt as an ingredient, then hunted it down in the store. I gave the betta a salt dip (not a bath). Really hoping that helps.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Neither Epsom salt or melafix is going to fix this situation. He has an internal secondary bacterial infection. This is indicated by the listlessness, weakness. 
Treat with kanamycin asap.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Neither Epsom salt or melafix is going to fix this situation. He has an internal secondary bacterial infection. This is indicated by the listlessness, weakness.
> Treat with kanamycin asap.


I wish I had seen this sooner; I didn't realize it until I looked it up, but I have kanamycin (Kanaplex). Unfortunately when I woke up today, he was gone. If I had treated him with it last night, do you think it might have saved him, or was it too late by then?

Was the secondary bacterial infection from the earlier fin rot, or contributed by the swim bladder disease? I just want to know what happened, and prevent it from ever happening again. He was only a year and a month old, he could have lived so much longer.

I have two other bettas, one in a 2.5 gallon and a 3.7 gallon. I've been considering moving the one in the 2.5 gallon to the now vacant 5 gallon; I don't think I want to get a new/third fish. It feels like three was an unlucky number. Could anything my late betta had be considered contagious?

I have to wonder if this is one of those "These things happen" things or if it's just the case of a terrible fishkeeper.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Im sorry to hear that. 

First of all- no terrible fish-keeper here. We learn as we go.
Was the fin rot first or the swim-bladder? Either could have weakened the fish and contributed to the other. But, there is an underlying condition that brought about both. Most likely environmental stress. Water quality being the biggest culprit. Overfeeding or not feeding appropriate diet the second. 

Was this fish alone for along time? If lately added new fish to his tank or if have another tank with a new fish-- could be chance of cross-contamination- possibly internal parasite (in case of swim-bladder). Internal parasites have a tendency to contribute to secondary bacterial infection of the swim bladder. 

But, we are not sure here if that is the case. 

The best way to keep fish healthy is regular weekly water changes of 25-75% depending on bio-load. 
Healthy diet with high quality food.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

First was the fin rot. I shouldn't have stressed him out by having the other betta in the breeder box, because I knew his immune system had likely taken a hit. I don't recall overfeeding him later on, but then he acted like he had swim bladder disease. Normally it would be easy to take care of but I agree, I think he was still really weak and couldn't fight it. For diet, I alternate between brine shrimp, crushed pellets, and sometimes I give them bloodworms.

He was the only fish in that tank for a long time (before that, he did share with some snowball shrimp but I moved them out) before I added the new betta to the breeder box. Then I moved her out into the newly cycled tank, not long after he began to show signs of swim bladder disease.

Once a week I do a 50% (or close to it) water change on each of the tanks. The water gets treated with Stress Coat to dechlorinate, Nite-Out II, Excel as an algaecide, and GH+ mineralizer. I try to add Thrive to the tanks once a week for ferts. In cases where the fish shows unusual behavior, such as swim bladder disease, or in the one's case, cloudy eye, I do a very large water change as soon as possible.

I'll wait for your opinion before I transfer the one betta to the now vacant 5 gallon. He's in a 2.5 with some shrimp, and it'd just be nice to give him an upgrade and give the shrimp a break. That and I feel like looking at his empty tank is depressing.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

@Discusluv I forgot to mention, there is one nerite snail in the 5 gallon, a tankmate of the late betta. Now the sole occupant of the 5 gallon. At one point (more than a month ago I think) I did put in two amano shrimp, hoping the betta wouldn't pick on them, but they disappeared overnight. I've practically dismantled the tank and never found them or any remains.

I tested parameters of the 5 gallon last night, and they were pretty good. Couldn't test TDS like I normally do because the meter broke.

Nitrate: 10 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
GH: 8.4
Chlorine: 0
KH: 2.24
pH: 7.2
Ammonia: 0
Temperature: 78.8

One thing I did notice the night before with my betta, after the salt dip, was that it looked like he had very tiny little short white stubble on his head. Nothing fuzzy or moldy looking, nor sparse. It kind of made me think of skin interaction with water. Still had it when I pulled him out today. It didn't look like any kind of worms, or anything alive really. Is this any cause for alarm?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Ryan Mosby said:


> @*Discusluv* I forgot to mention, there is one nerite snail in the 5 gallon, a tankmate of the late betta. Now the sole occupant of the 5 gallon. At one point (more than a month ago I think) I did put in two amano shrimp, hoping the betta wouldn't pick on them, but they disappeared overnight. I've practically dismantled the tank and never found them or any remains.
> 
> I tested parameters of the 5 gallon last night, and they were pretty good. Couldn't test TDS like I normally do because the meter broke.
> 
> ...


No, its fine. It was probably just shedding of mucus from salt dip.


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