# DIY co2 29 gallon (yeast and sugar help)



## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

do you not beleive me or are you looking for a second opinion?


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## Stemwinder (May 29, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> do you not beleive me or are you looking for a second opinion?


I'm going to be in the same situation soon... And I'll believe whatever you tell me. :icon_smil


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> do you not beleive me or are you looking for a second opinion?


 
bellive you with what?


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

i appolige, i found it




timwag2001 said:


> if you can make the hose from the 2 liter go into the gas seperator, make it go 3/4 of the way into the gas seperator. and then fill the gas seperator half way with water. this will make it act like a bubble counter. that way you can see how much co2 is going into your tank, this makes it possible to see when your mixture is starting to die off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 whats the diffrence between cane sugar and regular sugar?


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

lol. here is a link to the thread of yours from two days ago. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/110239-please-help-doseing.html

read the last post to the thread and follow the link. 

it brings you to a link you started may 29th. 
i posted it at the end of that thread


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

cane sugar is the white sugar that goes good in coffee.

brown sugar is the brown stuff you bake with


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> cane sugar is the white sugar that goes good in coffee.
> 
> brown sugar is the brown stuff you bake with


 
will the grocery store have cane sugar?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

MPevine11 said:


> will the grocery store have cane sugar?


It should.


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## TheVisionary78 (Mar 6, 2010)

I don't mean to butt in but! What type of plants are you going to be feeding CO2 to? If you have low tech plants then one DIY CO2 bottle will be fine. If you have faster growing plants and strong light then I would go with another bottle. I would not listen to the last post that you need multiple. 2 DIY will put you in the proper CO2 range even at heavily planted from personal experience since I have this same tank. CO2 isn't something that should be played with as you can and will most likely gas your fish. DIY are unstable, unpredictable. With no PH controller you will have frequent crashes. I am to the point were I am going to shell out the money for a complete mini system.


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

having just one diy bottle will cause fluctuations in co2. fluctuating co2 can cause algae.

the idea behind changing one bottle out per week is because one of the bottles will be slowing down and not be producing co2 like the newer ones. 

i ran that setup on my 29 with 2wpg of pc lighting without any problem


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

MPevine11 said:


> have plants comming soon, (2 days) would like to stary CO2 tommrrow. i have it built just need to know how much yeast and sugar i need to add and how to add it
> 
> 
> thank you
> -mike pevine-





timwag2001 said:


> diy recipe i've answered for you before
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/109243-co2-building-help.html


 



I took a look at this "recipe". It's just foolishness. Sorry

 If you use tank water you'll not need to do any boiling and regular white suger works just fine.

Fill your bottle with tank water add 1 cup sugar and 1/4 teaspoon baking soda to 1.9 liters water, mix until clear. I believe it is the chlorine in the tap water that kills the yeast and or produces unstable Co2 production but to be honest I'm not entirely sure. However, since I switched to using tank water I get completely stable as well as much increased Co2 production, *every time.* 

After you’ve mixed the sugar and baking soda add 1/2 teaspoon yeast, *do not mix*. Let it sink on its own, you can jostle the bottle a little to help it sink if you wish. It will start producing Co2 in about 1 hour, however it will take about 24 hours to push the oxygen out before any Co2 makes it's way into your tank.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...0-my-short-term-solution-pressurized-co2.html
Check my link above. I have a massive amount of experience with DIY Co2 and pretty much have it down to a science.


I posted this twice sorry. I ment to post it here but had to many windows opened and got confused. LOL

Good luck,

Shawn


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> having just one diy bottle will cause fluctuations in co2. fluctuating co2 can cause algae.
> 
> the idea behind changing one bottle out per week is because one of the bottles will be slowing down and not be producing co2 like the newer ones.
> 
> i ran that setup on my 29 with 2wpg of pc lighting without any problem


 
Partly true, but I have found the biggest interruption is during the change out when the newer bottle only pushes out oxygen for the first 24-36 hours. Having 2 or three bottles going shortens this period considerably. When a bottle is changed the oxygen rises up into the tubing and gets pushed out quicker when there is more production (2 or 3 bottles). I run three 2 liter glass bottles and have proven that 3 brand new bottles will push out most of the oxygen in just over 36 hours. So, when a three bottle system is up and running and new bottle is added, the oxygen should be pushed out in about 12 hours. If you do your bottle switch an hour before lights out the tank will not even notice it as the oxygen will be pushed out during the night.

Multiple bottles are definitely the way to go and I think 3 is the perfect number. My recipe lasts for just over 3 weeks with solid consistent production for 2 1/2 weeks but it will continue to produce for over 3 weeks. Also as a bottle is about to die down the liquid becomes very clear. If you use glass you can more accurately see what bottle to change. I number my bottles and have a chart that I check off each time I change a bottle so I now which one was changed last.

Plastic bottles expand and contract also causing inconsistent flow. You should also find a consistent way to defuse the Co2 (look at my link). I hope you are running a canister as most HOB filters disturb the surface to much and cause the Co2 to exit the tank faster then you can put it in.


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

thank you plantman.

i do plan to get an actuall CO2 system from ''GLA'' in the near future but the DIY co2 is untill i can get that. 
( i would get it now but i also have a saltwater project going on and getting a custom Fuge/Sump built to go in my stand for my biocube $425 later i'll have it :X )

but after i get that i plan to get the Co2 system with PH controller from 'GLA'


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

Also i have a maxijet 900, can i pug my DIY CO2 into that rather then into the filter intake?


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

MPevine11 said:


> thank you plantman.
> 
> i do plan to get an actuall CO2 system from ''GLA'' in the near future but the DIY co2 is untill i can get that.
> ( i would get it now but i also have a saltwater project going on and getting a custom Fuge/Sump built to go in my stand for my biocube $425 later i'll have it :X )
> ...


 
You and I are in a simalar boat, but you'd know that if you read my link.

As far as DIY/gasing goes I think it highly unlikely you could ever gas your fish running DIY yeast. I have never had an issue. I ran 2 bottles on a 29 gallon for over 2 years with no gasing issues. I've also never run an airstone at night. I had 15 Cardinal tetras last almost that full time with no issues as well. I think you'd need to get well over 40-50ppm in order to gas fish and this is just not possible running 2 bottles of DIY yeast on a 29 gallon. Not in my expierence anyway. If you look carefully at the picture you can see just how steady and calm the surface of my 29 gallons tank was and I couldn't get the Co2 much over 30ppm.

You can just barely see my diffuser on the right. It was simply a large diameter tube with a power head on top pushing water down. The Co2 went in the top; it worked and gave the tank about 30ish ppm. But I fought with Co2 leaks out of the bottle lid at the tube silicone connection the entire time. It was a real PITA. Maybe you should try the brake caliper valves idea. Drill a small hole with a 5/32 or 3/16 drill bit in the center of the plastic cap and then screw the bleeder valve into that, which should be air tight. You could put some silicone around it just to be safe. Keeping your Co2 consistent really is everything. 

My 29,


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

MPevine11 said:


> Also i have a maxijet 900, can i pug my DIY CO2 into that rather then into the filter intake?


 
Ya, I think so, but run at least 2 bottles. And get a drop checker. Trust us, two..at least. Change one every 2 weeks and you should be good. Aim the jet down into the center of the tank if you can.

The only way to know is to try it while running a drop checker. Don't forget 4 or 5 dkh solution in the Drop Checker not tank or tap water.


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

that looks amazing!

would it be ok to run my DIY co2 into my maxijet 900 powerhead? 
also what do you mean you run an air stone at night? where do you place the sir stone? and do you only run it when lights go out?


I just got my plants today! hopefuly get my ferts soon! 
plantman whats the plant in bottom right? i love it.


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

The Plantman said:


> Ya, I think so, but run at least 2 bottles. And get a drop checker. Trust us, two..at least. Change one every 2 weeks and you should be good.
> 
> The only way to know is to try it while running a drop checker. Don't forget 4 or 5 dkh solution in the Drop Checker not tank or tap water.


 
sorry didnt see that post. 
whats a drop checker? and whats the not tank opr tap water?

also i'll put togther another bottle, how it hook it to the system with 2?


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

The Plantman said:


> I took a look at this "recipe". It's just foolishness. Sorry
> 
> If you use tank water you'll not need to do any boiling and regular white suger works just fine.
> 
> ...


 
my "recipe" said nothing about boiling water and cane sugar is white sugar.
the only difference between your "recipe" and mine is that you use half the sugar and half the yeast, you also add baking soda to yours. chlorine may be an issue, but never thought about it or looked into it as i was using well water. the idea behind the baking soda is that the diy mixture produces acid which kills off the yeast faster. i didnt bother with baking soda with multiple bottles i didnt care if the old bottle was starting to die off though, it was expected and thats why i hooked up multiples. 

i mentioned brown sugar because i've heard reports of brown sugar being more consistant and lasting longer.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

MPevine11 said:


> sorry didnt see that post.
> whats a drop checker? and whats the not tank opr tap water?
> 
> also i'll put togther another bottle, how it hook it to the system with 2?


Drop checker:










The little bubble at the top is partially filled with a 4 DKH solution (not tank or tap water) and a bit of pH indicator (just like in a pH test kit).

The bottom of the drop checker is filled with air, but is open to the bubble at the top.

The CO2 in the tank water slowly passes through the air into the bubble, but the actual tank water does not. Since dissolved CO2 is acidic, the pH indicator in the bubble changes color with the CO2 level. The 4 DKH solution is needed because it's calibrated so a certain amount of CO2 results in a certain pH, and thus a certain color. Green, or greenish yellow, means good CO2 level.


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

MPevine11 said:


> that looks amazing!
> 
> would it be ok to run my DIY co2 into my maxijet 900 powerhead?
> also what do you mean you run an air stone at night? where do you place the sir stone? and do you only run it when lights go out?
> ...


I said not to run an airstone at night. With DIY it's just not nessesary.

Plant is Cryptocoryne wendtii "brown"




MPevine11 said:


> sorry didnt see that post.
> whats a drop checker? and whats the not tank opr tap water?
> 
> also i'll put togther another bottle, how it hook it to the system with 2?


Use tank water in your Co2 mixture not tap.

Drop Checker, learn about them. Very excellent tool.


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

DarkCobra said:


> Drop checker:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perfect! Much better then how I could have explained it!


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> my "recipe" said nothing about boiling water and cane sugar is white sugar.
> the only difference between your "recipe" and mine is that you use half the sugar and half the yeast, you also add baking soda to yours. chlorine may be an issue, but never thought about it or looked into it as i was using well water. the idea behind the baking soda is that the diy mixture produces acid which kills off the yeast faster. i didnt bother with baking soda with multiple bottles i didnt care if the old bottle was starting to die off though, it was expected and thats why i hooked up multiples.
> 
> i mentioned brown sugar because i've heard reports of brown sugar being more consistant and lasting longer.


I'm sorry; I didn't mean to come across harshly. I apologize. 

I have tested hundreds of recipe combinations over the years and I have found that in 2 liters of water, sugar over 1 cup does not yield any significant increase in production. In fact in my experience once you go over 1 ½ cups the mixture does not last 3+ weeks. Adding ¼ teaspoon baking soda is also part of the key to get the mixture to last over 3 weeks. Any less or any more and you don’t make 3 weeks.

Having the production of each bottle over lap the others is the key to keeping total Co2 output as smooth as possible over the 3 week cycle. When one has three 2 liter bottles running with my mixture and change a bottle every week you still have 2 running at full capacity during the bottle change. The bottle that gets changed is also just 3 days or so into it’s slow down mod. Changing the bottle in the evening just about completely minimizes the oxygen that is entered into the system during a change, the biggest Co2 drop happens during the night and is back up to full production by the next morning for lights on. 

My system has enabled me to hold 35+ ppm of Co2 in a large (for DIY yeast that is) 46 gallon tank! I wonder if anyone on this site has been able to do this. My DIY Co2 method is solid.

All that being said I can't wait to get out of DIY yeast and get a low maintenance pressure system.

Current 46 bowfront with said DIY yeast on it. i'd say I'm doing pretty good!


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

i set up my DIY CO2 with yeast and sugar, at to plantman's method. 

i just need to get the checker


hope my ferts come ''GLA'' soon


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

so with the Maxi jet hooked up with my DIY CO2, i can see it spit bubbles out in the current flow. tiny,small,medium,and large all at one about 2 times a second.........


is the CO2 working or.........??


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

MPevine11 said:


> is the CO2 working or.........??


It's probably working. A powerhead cannot dissolve 100% of the CO2, but is often effective enough.

If you know your normal tank pH, test again and you should find the pH starts dropping. This indicates the presence of CO2.

If you also have a KH test kit, you can also a tool like this one to get a _very rough_ estimate of the amount of CO2.

But for a proper measurement, you will need the drop checker and 4 DKH solution.


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

DarkCobra said:


> It's probably working. A powerhead cannot dissolve 100% of the CO2, but is often effective enough.
> 
> If you know your normal tank pH, test again and you should find the pH starts dropping. This indicates the presence of CO2.
> 
> ...


 
i looked for a drop checker at my local pet store, but they didnt have any. where can i get one offline?

i'l check my ph see how that goes


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

MPevine11 said:


> so with the Maxi jet hooked up with my DIY CO2, i can see it spit bubbles out in the current flow. tiny,small,medium,and large all at one about 2 times a second.........
> 
> 
> is the CO2 working or.........??


In about 24-36 hours you should see the bubbles start to shrink up really fast once they exit the powerhead. For the first day or so your only seeing oxygen bubbles and they tend to rise to the surface very quikly and don't really shrink much.

You can make the 4dkh solution from Aquafina bottled water and baking soda.


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## kingfisherfleshy (Jun 4, 2010)

Plantman's co2 stuff is pretty awesome...I have the fortune of living out in the country, so I dont need to use tank water. My co2 recipe is:

2c sugar
1tea baking soda
1tea yeast

I actually love dabbling with my DIY co2 system...and think Im going to take a couple ideas Ive seen from this thread and try to incorporate them in. My DIY diffuser works pretty swell, getting a drop checker soon to even things out.


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

20-40 Gallon Aquariums 
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/2 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change



i got in the Mail:
K2SO4 -> potassium Sulfate
KNO3 -> Potassium Nitrate
KH2PO4 -> Mono Potassium Phosphate
Plantex CSM+b


what one is what?

mainly the:
+/- 1/2 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week



not sure what one is what.......


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

20-40 Gallon Aquariums 
[STRIKE]+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week[/STRIKE][STRIKE]
[/STRIKE][STRIKE]+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week[/STRIKE][STRIKE]
[/STRIKE]+/- 1/2 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change



i got in the Mail:

[STRIKE]KNO3 -> Potassium Nitrate
[/STRIKE][STRIKE]KH2PO4 -> Mono Potassium Phosphate
[/STRIKE]Plantex CSM+b
K2SO4 -> potassium Sulfate



which is trace element, and what is 'GH' boster?



thanks
-mike-


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Plantex CSM+B are the trace elements, in particular iron since that's the most important trace.

GH Booster, which it appears you didn't get, is typically used when the water used to fill your aquarium is too soft - meaning it contains very little calcium/magnesium to begin with. It's usually not necessary unless you're using purified water such as from a reverse osmosis unit, or distilled water from the store.


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

DarkCobra said:


> Plantex CSM+B are the trace elements, in particular iron since that's the most important trace.
> 
> GH Booster, which it appears you didn't get, is typically used when the water used to fill your aquarium is too soft - meaning it contains very little calcium/magnesium to begin with. It's usually not necessary unless you're using purified water such as from a reverse osmosis unit, or distilled water from the store.


 
so i should probaly ge the gh booster because i get R/O from my local pet store?


what should i dose with the K2SO4 -> potassium Sulfate?


thank you for the reply


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

yeah if you use ro than you should def get gh booster.

k2so4 is prob not needed. its good to have on hand though. you get potassium from kno3 and kh2po4. if you start to notice little pinholes in your leaves than you can dose k2s04. i notice that my hygro needs more than any other plants i have


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

can i put these powers into a bottle of my tank water, shake it up and then dump them in?


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

yes. just not csm+b and kh2po4 together.


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

all seprate would be ok?

or would just putting it in the tank as power be ok?


whats more effective


-mike pevine-


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

neither is more effective.
its usually recommended that you dose csm+b on a seperate day. something happens when iron and phosphat mix . they combine or something and then precipitate out. then the plants cant use it


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

i just found the like that i learned my diy co2 from on another forum. check this out. good info
http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

what drop checker should i order from ''GLA''? im going to order GH booster because i use R/O water and figured mise well get a good drop checker.........

should i order anything else from them?


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

the oracle is hands down the best drop checker available in my opinion. i bought the double bubble and hate it.


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

MY PLAN:


Sunday= csm+b
Monday= KN03 *AND* KH2P04 
Tuesday= csm+b
Wednesday= KN03 *AND* KH2P04 
Thursday= csm+b
Friday= Water change *AND* GH booster
saturday= KN03 *AND* KH2P04 



These Amounts:
+/- ¼ tsp KN03
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04
+/- 1/16 tsp csm+b
+/- 1/2 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only) WHEN I GET IT





does this look Good?


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

the day that you do your water changes, dose kno3 + kh2po4 + gh booster. then alternate. the day before you do your water changes you dont have to do anything. just sit back and enjoy your tank


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

what do you mean alternate?


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

between micro and macro.

sunday 50% pwc, kno3, kh2po4, gh booster 
monday csm+b
tuesday kno3, kh2po4
wed csm+b
thursday kno3, kh2po4
fri csm+b
sat nothing


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

timwag2001 said:


> between micro and macro.
> 
> sunday 50% pwc, kno3, kh2po4, gh booster
> monday csm+b
> ...


 
should i really do 50%?! 


also whats ''between micro and macro''


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

micro is csm+b (micro nutrients, aka trace elements)
macro N-P-K 

and yeah, 50% works great


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## MPevine11 (May 26, 2010)

so like 14 gallons a week?

i mise well buy a RO/DI unit huh rather then spending .50 a gallon at my local pet store......


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

its next on my list of things to get too.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Wow, you all make your diy co2 so different than I do. http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/DIY-Yeast-CO2/7/ Yours looks awesome, plantman.


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