# Freshwater LED fixtures



## Johny_Dough (Nov 30, 2010)

Ok... So if I have to shell out $300 bucks for new lights. 4x24 T5 HO which seems to be one of my best options at this point (Thinking Catalina)... And you have to replace the bulbs at $100 a year roughly...

I'm thinking of sucking it up and trying to go LED. (money is a concern but the high cost won't really put me out)

Most quality High Power Led Fixtures I am finding seem mostly geared toward reef lighting.

Anyone have a product recommendation for Planted tanks?

Don't have time to DIY right now and after reading Hoppy's 50 page post on LEDs my brain hurts.



75 gallon 30" deep


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I don't think you will find any pre-made LED light that will work for a 30 inch deep tank. The ones I see advertised are just not designed for that. It is encouraging that there are now several manufacturers producing LED aquarium lighting, but I think it will take at least another year before they really get serious about it. Unfortunately, the trend now seems to be towards "bells and whistles" instead of just good uniform aquarium lighting.


----------



## Johny_Dough (Nov 30, 2010)

OK Thanks

i need to stop obsessing over this and just get the t5s


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Johny_Dough said:


> And you have to replace the bulbs at $100 a year roughly...


I applaud your intentions on going LED whatever the expense... there are some cropping up that should work, like the Ecoxotic strips, but costs will be up there.

Regarding your statement above, I find that I don't have to replace my T5 bulbs yearly, they last two years and some actually longer. I still have some Starcoat T5HO bulbs that I bought probably 5 years ago.

Also, if you shop around, take advantage of promotions, discounts, free shipping offers etc, your cost can be much lower. Some bulbs can be had for $10-12. If on the other hand, only the best will do (Giesemann?), then I agree, it will be costly.

Even then I doubt you will recoup the cost of an appropriate LED fixture anytime soon.


----------



## barbarossa4122 (Jan 16, 2010)

My Geissman are one year old and they will be OK for at least another year, imo.


----------



## Johny_Dough (Nov 30, 2010)

Your taking all the fun out of me trying to talk myself into a high cost gadget that doesn't work that I don't need 

I do have 2 Ecoxotic Panorama modules supplementing my PC lights right now. Surprising how bright they are. And about the only thing growing at a fast rate in my tank is right under them.

I have a 20gallon that is getting all my trims that I might put them on. When the T5HO's show up.


----------



## Mxx (Dec 29, 2010)

Look on Ebay, buy one or two 5 metre waterproof LED strip along with the transformer. All you have to do it connect the two wire ends which is easy enough with a twist tie and doesn't require any soldering. Stick it to the underside of your hood, plug the transformer into a plug-in-timer, easy, done, cheap.

I'm not sure what size tank yours is, so you might require more than one spool. 

I'd recommend the 5050 super high-output high-efficiency ones which have 60 diodes per metre (or secondly the 3528), to give you 300 LED diodes per 5m spool. (They're not as high output as CREE's but they also don't run as hot and therefore don't require a heatsink(. A spool with transformer will run you about $60. Some of them are listed at producing 400-450 lumens per metre (or 7 lumens per diode), and consuming 14.4 watts per metre. Anyone have any idea how that compares to say 2 florescent watts per gallon though?

I have a combination of warm-white and cool-white on my tank. I prefer the look of the warm-white much better, but have it combined with cool-white for now. I'm not exactly sure which one is better for plants, but having seen the spectral analysis for each, they both seemed to have a decent spectrum to cover the appropriate necessary wavelengths. They had similar light output across most of the spectrum but the cool-whites have an enormous output spike in the bluish range. I can't seem to find the link to the spectral analysis right now though. I'm testing this out on a small tank right now myself, while I'm planning out a larger 200-300 gallon tank. For that tank I know that to achieve 2 watts per gallon, I'd need 5 spools, but as those are LED watts instead of florescent watts that might still be overkill.


----------



## Mxx (Dec 29, 2010)

Sorry, 75 gallon, missed that. You'd need to confirm the intensity drop-off yourself for a 30 inch deep tank, but perhaps three 5 metre spools of LEDs would do it. At about $180 that's cheaper than florescent actually, at least if you're buying directly from the manufacturer's in China on Ebay. 

I had an Ecoxotic Stunner Strip on my small test tank, but took it off as I actually prefer the LED strips I bought myself no Ebay.


----------



## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> I applaud your intentions on going LED whatever the expense... there are some cropping up that should work, like the Ecoxotic strips, but costs will be up there.
> 
> Regarding your statement above, I find that I don't have to replace my T5 bulbs yearly, they last two years and some actually longer. I still have some Starcoat T5HO bulbs that I bought probably 5 years ago.
> 
> ...


I replaced my 96 watt PC fixture with leds (hoping that it's approx 4:1 watt ratio cree LED to PC, according to some non scientific internet research comparing par values of LED,T5 and PC's) My payback calculations are approx. 7 years, (energy costs + replacement of tubes every 2nd year) not the greatest, but my plants are doing quite well in my LED only tank, even with my calculations and the cost of T5HO fixtures (catlalina's for example), I think for now T5HO's are more cost efficient


----------



## Jeff.:P:. (Sep 8, 2009)

If you got the dough here you go..

just make sure to ask for all white LEDS.

http://www.reefledlights.com/led-fixtures/maxspec-led-aquarium-lighting/

check out the 48" fixture.. sexy

http://www.reefledlights.com/led-fixtures/commercial-led-fixtures/

also checkout these new t5/led fixtures from nanotuners, might have to do 2-3 fixtures over 75g. Contact Evil he might be able to put something custom, truely a god of LEDs, but will be $$$


http://www.nanotuners.com/product_info.php?products_id=669&osCsid=9fue60nkneb5g4prmbp9rdk404


----------



## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

Jeff.:P:. said:


> If you got the dough here you go..
> 
> just make sure to ask for all white LEDS.
> 
> ...


wow these are pretty baller! thanks for the link, hopefully they'll drop in price next time i set up a new aquarium =)


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Mxx said:


> Look on Ebay, buy one or two 5 metre waterproof LED strip along with the transformer. All you have to do it connect the two wire ends which is easy enough with a twist tie and doesn't require any soldering. Stick it to the underside of your hood, plug the transformer into a plug-in-timer, easy, done, cheap.
> 
> I'm not sure what size tank yours is, so you might require more than one spool.
> 
> ...


I was actually looking at these rolls the other days. ~$65 for the 5m length. Not for aquariums, but for under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen. I'll play around with them a bit to see how they compare to our T5's. Might be a good simple DIY solution for shallow or low tech tanks! Not sure what the lifespan of those 5050's is, but they do output a lot of light considering that they don't need a heatsink.

If you find the link to the spectral output go ahead and post it...


----------



## Jeff.:P:. (Sep 8, 2009)

No prob 

Also if you can DIY a little these guys have the retro fit kits which contain everything you need. Overall very easy to put together and you can save some $$$. Just remember to ask for a mix of warm/cool white LEDs and no blues. all you need is a heatsink

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-DIY-Retrofit-Kits/Categories

heatsinks are purchased here

www.heatsinkusa.com




rwong2k said:


> wow these are pretty baller! thanks for the link, hopefully they'll drop in price next time i set up a new aquarium =)


----------



## sanj (Jan 11, 2004)

I dont really agree that Leds are not upto it so to speak at the moment although I do believe that they will get even better. On one of my tanks 27" deep, I use TMC leds 3" above the water line. The first gen marine whites combined with growbeams. Although it has been a while when I last checked, PAR readings were 30 at the substrate. This is not major lighting but, it is enough for most plants.

On the reef side of the hobby I had an Eco-lamps KR92 which kicked out 160 PAR at the substrate on the same tank when it was a reef tank. Thats too much for a planted tank. However as mentioned leds will improve further not just in strength, but colour rendition and beam angle. Prices will come down slowly.


----------



## mylittlefish (Oct 5, 2010)

Johny_Dough said:


> OK Thanks
> 
> i need to stop obsessing over this and just get the t5s


:bounce::bounce::bounce:

No , Just pay my son and he will build you a nice little LED light.

Mine is working great roud: roud: roud:

He is in North Carolina

That Engineer degree is serving him well.


Ps.

I have my T5HO sitting on the shelf...... I am using his homemade LED since x-mas........ Great look and the plants are growing.

He is such a great kid.


----------



## Mxx (Dec 29, 2010)

Wasserpest said:


> I was actually looking at these rolls the other days. ~$65 for the 5m length. Not for aquariums, but for under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen. I'll play around with them a bit to see how they compare to our T5's. Might be a good simple DIY solution for shallow or low tech tanks! Not sure what the lifespan of those 5050's is, but they do output a lot of light considering that they don't need a heatsink.
> 
> If you find the link to the spectral output go ahead and post it...


The Spectral Graphs for standard warm white and cool white LED's are at this link - http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=/compcool_warm.htm And I'd heard the following: 

_Plants have two types of chlorophyll: A and B. Chlorophyll A absorbs light at 405 and 640 nm. Chlorophyll B has peak absorptions at 440 and 620 nm. Plant lamps are designed to emit light at red wavelengths to duplicate the light of the sun, but too much red color can cause aquatic plants to grow tall and thin. For best results, use a daylight (5000K) lamp in combination with an actinic white or actinic day lamp._

But I'd also seen statements elsewhere which use slightly different numbers, and it's obviously not as if plants only use a single wavelength of light. I'd also seen 420 mentioned as the peak absorption point for chlorophyll A, and that chlorophyll can use light from 400-550 nm and 650-700 nm. So perhaps we all need to look at this matter a little more closely. 

In any case, LED lights do provide some light in the red and blue parts of the spectrum which plants utilize. Personally, in terms of how it made the tank itself look, I prefer warm-white over cool-white, or at least a combination of the two. It would be easy enough as well to add some supplementary bars or strips of Red, Blue, and/or violet LED's to provide some additional coverage at those points in the spectrum, but you probably would not want to make that the predominant lighting in your aquarium as it might make it look a bit funny. You can inexpensively get 5 metre spools which have alternating Red, Green, and Blue LED's even, and they have some of those that are controlled by remote controls so you should be able turn off the greens if your plants aren't going to use that and if you don't happen to like the look of it. 

As for myself, I just received my latest supplementary LED lights, which include small wands of Red and Blue, but I'm yet to have a chance to attach them to my hood to see how they look. I'm thinking that perhaps I should have tried to find a wand of violet as well though. 

I'm actually going to be working with a lighting designer shortly to light almost my entire house extension indirectly with warm-white LED's hidden in alcoves, so I'm confident they are up to the task of lighting a tank, if you use enough of them. With three spools as I'd suggested, that would give you 900 individual LED diodes, and it's not as if the photons from LED lighting are different than the photons of any other lights, in contrast to what some had practically suggested elsewhere (in suggesting LED light won't penetrate as deeply). 

The 5050's are supposed to last 10,000 hours, and I think I read that they're still producing more than 90% of their rated output after a year, which is far superior to any other type of lights inluding florescent. I suspect that as 5050's are not as hot as CREE's they do not require a heatsink. They're not as bright as Crees either, but if it's the same cost and efficiency to use hundreds of these as it is for a few dozen CREE's then that's rather irrelevant.


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Wasserpest said:


> I applaud your intentions on going LED whatever the expense... there are some cropping up that should work, like the Ecoxotic strips, but costs will be up there.
> 
> Regarding your statement above, I find that I don't have to replace my T5 bulbs yearly, they last two years and some actually longer. I still have some Starcoat T5HO bulbs that I bought probably 5 years ago.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I think Hoppy did the tests, could be wrong, that showed minimal drop in par at 1 year old bulbs.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Mxx said:


> I'm actually going to be working with a lighting designer shortly to light almost my entire house extension indirectly with warm-white LED's hidden in alcoves, so I'm confident they are up to the task of lighting a tank, if you use enough of them. With three spools as I'd suggested, that would give you 900 individual LED diodes, and it's not as if the photons from LED lighting are different than the photons of any other lights, in contrast to what some had practically suggested elsewhere (in suggesting LED light won't penetrate as deeply).
> 
> The 5050's are supposed to last 10,000 hours, and I think I read that they're still producing more than 90% of their rated output after a year, which is far superior to any other type of lights inluding florescent. I suspect that as 5050's are not as hot as CREE's they do not require a heatsink. They're not as bright as Crees either, but if it's the same cost and efficiency to use hundreds of these as it is for a few dozen CREE's then that's rather irrelevant.


Those are all good questions and food for thought. For example, each of the 5050's eats .24 Watts, so the entire 300 LED reel uses about 72 Watts. If the light output would be comparable to two 4ft T5HO bulbs (???) then we are getting into "I want to replace my T5's" territory.

However, in my experience lots of low wattage bulbs do not equal the intensity/output of few high wattage bulbs. In other words, 72W used by 300 LEDs could result in lower light output than 72W used by 24 LED higher output LEDs. I don't have a PAR meter, but I am planning to do some comparisons once I get the roll'o'leds.


----------



## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

Marine land has a new led fixture for reef use. It looks to be much brighter than the double right fixture. I have that one and it is doing well lighting a lo tech 33g, 20" from the substrate.


----------



## Mxx (Dec 29, 2010)

I also found a graph which shows the spectrum of light that chlorophyll does actually use, albeit chlorophyll taken from a stony coral. I'm not sure if there is any difference between coral chlorophyll and plant chlorophyll, but I would be surprised if there was. 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007...searchterm=led
(It's the graph in the section entitled Photosynthetically Usable Radiation. 

This spectrum utilized by chlorophyll actually seems to mirror the spectrum of light produced by warm and cool white LEDs much more closely than I had expected. As such, perhaps it comes down to finding a light combination which we happen to find most appealing ourselves, as it is in any case already meeting the plant's requirements quite well?

I'm personally quite happy with the colour rendering of my combination of cool & warm white LEDs. Although the white LED do produce a decent amount of colour in each of the red green blue ranges, you could equalize that out even further with an RGB LED strip, particularly if you're starting with warm-white LED's as with cool whites you might otherwise end up with too much blue and looking a little washed out. (The colour 'aqua' is the one part of the spectrum where white LED's have a big drop, but you could supplement this as well with additional LED's of that colour). 

And the cool whites in particular do produce a great deal of light in the 6500K wavelength . If you want to add light above that then it's certainly easy enough to supplement your lighting with additional LED strips of ultra-violet light, which tend to have an average peak colour of around 375-405 nm, (8000-7400K). 315-400 nm is considered to be the 'blacklight' part of the UV spectrum with the wavelengths below that being the dangerous ones. Nevertheless, it is suggested that you do no stare into a UV LED. 

That's the great thing about LED's in any case, they can be small, flexible, and inexpensive so that you can weave in whatever extra colours you want to fill out the spectrum as you see fit. 

By the way does the 'yellow' part of the spectrum actually boost algae growth, which I heard a rumour about? If so then you'd be better off with just RGB LED's but your colour rendition might then be off. 

P.S. To convert back and forth between NM and K, divide by 3,000,000.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

mylittlefish said:


> :bounce::bounce::bounce:
> 
> No , Just pay my son and he will build you a nice little LED light.
> 
> ...



Dave?


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

mylittlefish said:


> No , Just pay my son and he will build you a nice little LED light.
> 
> Mine is working great roud: roud: roud:
> 
> ...


You have posted this same comment at least 3-4 times now, on various threads. It isn't clear what you are asking or selling. I suggest if your son wants to get paid to design and/or build LED lights he or you should post an offer on the Swap n Shop forum here, offering his services. It would help your "business" a great deal if you were to post a thead that describes the light your son made, gives some data about how well it works, and offers some rough estimate about how much this would cost someone. If you just want to tell us you think your son is great, you have now done so. I think my grandchildren are great too.:icon_smil


----------



## faltaren (Jan 11, 2011)

pacific sun i releasing a ledfixture the 15th. Look very intresting. White, blu and red leds(cree). All dimmable and you can st the kelvin with the software . aquariumled.eu


----------

