# Bga Is Back!!!! Why



## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

A few weeks ago I had a bad case of BGA and used maracyn to clear it up. 

I have been doseing KNO3 and KH2PO4 the day of the water change and then everyother day.
On the off days I have been doseing CSM-B.
I have been useing the estimative index.
Now the BGA is slowly comeing back (I have been picking it out like crazy) and it is starting to get the best of me.
I do a 50% water change every week.

I don't have my water perameters right at the moment because I am at work. I can get them later tonight and post them when I get home. 

What could I be lacking? Should I dose more KNO3 and KH2P04 right now I am doseing 2.5tbls of KNO3 and 3/4 of a tablespoon of KH2P04. The CSM-B I am doseing 1-tbls on the off days. 

The tank is a 200 gal with alot of fast growing stem plants.

MAN BEING A TOTAL NEWBIE IS FRUSTRATING.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Clownknife said:


> MAN BEING A TOTAL NEWBIE IS FRUSTRATING.


Haha, hang in there..
Along with dosing KN03 you need to up your C02 to 30ppm


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> you need to up your CO2 to 30ppm


That seems to be the key! High levels of CO2.

Craig, you are a big advocate of Tom Barr's EI. To me, it seems the EI method just won't work to its full potential without the ability to maintain CO2 levels of at least 30ppm. Is that correct?

Mike


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Thats correct Mike, C02 is a big key.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

On another note Mike, I have a couple of smaller tanks, a 10 and a 20, no C02, low light, weekly H20 change, and they are doing great..
The EI is an excellent way of doing things, the only downside I have found is a bit wasteful on fert's by dosing an excess, but hey they are cheap enough roud:


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

where are you getting the BGA growth from? I find sometimes that if your tank doesnt have enough flow, dead spots are more prone to BGA.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Clownknife said:


> A few weeks ago I had a bad case of BGA and used maracyn to clear it up.
> 
> I have been doseing KNO3 and KH2PO4 the day of the water change and then everyother day.
> On the off days I have been doseing CSM-B.
> ...


Rather than fighting it, do a blackout for 3 days, do the 50% water change a remove all you can, then add the KNO3 back, wait 3 days, repeat water change and KNO3.

Now keep up on it. Keep CO2 up.

CO2 issues are 90% of the problems folks have with algae.
Add more.

Regards, 
Tom BArr


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

My C02 has been at 24ppm for weeks now and still haveing problems.

I am going to do the black out and start over.


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

Clownknife said:


> My C02 has been at 24ppm for weeks now and still haveing problems.
> 
> I am going to do the black out and start over.


Needs to be more. 30ppm seems to be the "magic number" as it were. I've not had to deal with BGA (unless I had it and the medication to deal with columnaris killed it off ... a distinct possibility,) but I do know that other types of algae also seemed to retreat once I upped my CO2 to keep the ppm at 30 or so.


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## Barbels (Aug 3, 2004)

*I don't think I can get Co2 right at 30.*

Mmmkay. I use a digital timer to count my bubbles. I set the timer for 5 seconds while counting the bubbles. 
I found that if I use 13b/5 sec. = 2.6bps = Co2 of 43 :icon_eek: 
So I reduced to 11b/5 sec. = 2.2bps = Co2 of 15 :icon_frow 
Now I have it at 12b/5 sec. = 2.4bps = Co2 26
My KH is 5.5.
I can't seem to adjust to 30. Can I?
Hope 26 is okay. :icon_conf


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

Okay, from what I've learned (being not much more than a newbie at this myself,) you don't need to keep it right at 30, but you do need to keep it in that general neighborhood, a bit more is not going to hurt (charts notwithstanding) as long as your fish are not gasping at the top. Counting BPS or BPM isn't going to do it for you from what I understand. CO2 levels are inextricably wound up with KH and Ph (don't ask me how ) With a KH of 5.5 you need to inject enough CO2 to reduce your Ph to about 6.7 or a smidgeon less. There are things that can interfere with "true" Ph readings although I don't know what they are right offhand. Just know I've heard of such. 

Anyone feel free to jump in if I'm wrong in this !


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Right on Cindy, you got it..

bpm/bps will not give you a reading of how much C02 is in the water column,
At this point there are two way's of testing.
1) test ph, test kh, then compair to C02 chart
http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/table_01.shtml
When testing kh, test from the sorce/tap, let it sit for a day or so, or ask water board for a water report, kh is usually in a set range in you're particular area, meaning it does not fluctuate alot, so, say you're kh is 5, it will usually remain like that for period's of time, a monthly test, then in a year's time, you will know you're kh general range. 
Keep in mind that these $10 test kit's are a bit flakey so it take's a bit of getting use to them to determin an amount of accuracy.
2) drive C02 up till fish stress then back off some...a bit extreme but effective. caution is advised when using this method...

Thanks


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## Barbels (Aug 3, 2004)

I realize that.
Should have been more clear.
When I had the 2.6bps it gave me pH of 6.6 and KH of 6-ish = Co2 of 41-43.
When I had the 2.2bps it gave me pH of 7.0 and KH of 5.5-ish = Co2 of 15.
Now, with the 2.4bps it gives me a pH of 6.8 and KH of 5.5 = Co2 of 26.
I do test my pH and KH to get my Co2 reading.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

If fishies seem fine, but still have a bit of algae here and there, up you're C02 a bit more, that will help utilize the nutrient's in the tank that much more and improve plant growth also.

Thanks


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

The big thing is that BGA doesn't spontaneously appear in your tanks. It gets in there from somewhere, usually new plants. If you completely wiped it out in your tank with Maracyn, you might have reintroduced it by not cleaning your equipment. Nets and cleaning brushes or pads could be the cause. Once it is in there, I am not a big advocate of messing around with your parameters to get rid of it. It seems that NOTHING will get rid of it completely, except Maracyn. The best you can do with water parameters is hope to slow it down. I say nuke it again and make sure to clean all your equipment so that you don't accidently reintroduce it at a later time.
-Aphyosemion


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

BGA are airbourn spores, highly unlikely new plants will bnring it in, also, how can that occur when no newe plants where added after using antiobiotics etc?

You are welcomed to research the vectors of this genus, it can get around very easily.

Back to the issue, test kits can give false readings, plants and algae never lie.................so if you see any traces of algae, go after it and then double check the conditions.

Do the full treatment process.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Aqua Dave (Feb 23, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> BGA are airbourn spores, highly unlikely new plants will bnring it in, also, how can that occur when no newe plants where added after using antiobiotics etc?


That's interesting. So BGA gets transported from say a local pond into your tank via air? If I had my tank in a clean room would it never get BGA?

Just interested as I always thought BGA came in on the plants or fish.

David


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Yes, like bacteria spores, they are bacteria in a certain sense, although radically different than any other group of bacteria and radically different from anything really. 

Mt St Helens after the explosion had BGA in the pools of rain water in 20 days.
Intense fire ecology also shows about 20-25 days.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

Do the full treatment process.

Regards, 
Tom Barr[/QUOTE]


Tom refresh my memory on the full treatment please. 

Thanks 

Duane


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> BGA are airbourn spores, highly unlikely new plants will bnring it in, also, how can that occur when no newe plants where added after using antiobiotics etc?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


I had it licked then after adding a few fish from the LFS it showed up just two days later. Could this quote be the reason? Is the LFS the problem?


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

After a 3 day blackout my tank has never looked better.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Full treatement:

Either 3 day blackout of Antibiotics

Clean off all you can prior
Do 50% water change
Disconnect CO2
Cover tank with blacktrash bag(2 thick), towels etc so that no light gets in.
Add 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 per 25 gal of tank. *Do not delete this step!*
BGA will return other wise.
Wait 3 days.
Remove cover, reconnect CO2, do another 50% water change and add the same amount of KNO3 back and then thereafter 2-3x a week depending on light/plant density/fish load etc.

This KNO3 method works for either killing method of blackout of antibiotics and the KNO3 is the cure, the AB and BO are merely killing what's there, not addressing the plant growth issue.......which is why you have the algae in the first place.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

UH Tom I did exactly what you just described except I left the CO2 hooked up. 
Why do you want to disconnect the CO2? The PH stayed at 7.4 the whole time it was blacked out.


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

While it is true that most algae have airborn spores, I will bet that no one spontaneously got blue-green algae without it coming in on fish or plants, unless you maybe have an evil pond right outside your door that is covered in the stuff. In 12 years of keeping fish, I have only gotten the stuff directly from my LFS or the online plant companies. If you go look carefully in the tanks of your LFS, you will likely find many different types of algae floating around in there. The scary part is that there are probably a lot more that are in spore stage because of lack of light. With the constant influx of new fish and plants it is nearly impossible for them to keep the undesirable algae out of their tanks
If you told me that you hadn't added a single new fish or plant in the last year and had never had it before and still got BGA, I would say you forgot about something.
Oh, and as for the blackouts, I did a complete blackout of a week on my 75 gallon tank and when I flipped the light back on, the BGA was completely gone. Then, a week later it was covered in the stuff again. A complete regimen of BGA removal includes 7 days of treatment at the dosages recommended by the instructions in the Maracyn box and that is prettymuch it. They only recommend 5 days, but I treat my tanks for 7, since after 5 days, I can usually still see some of the BGA isn't dead yet. I also didn't make any water changes during that time, so that I would keep the dosage at it's max strength. It worked fine. I had to treat all 7 of my tanks, but it wiped the BGA out in every one.
-Aphyosemion


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

I used the maracyn and it worked great the only problem was just over a couple of weeks later it was back. I just finished the blackout a week ago along with raising my CO2 to over 30ppm and it hasn't been back yet.

Now I am dealing with brown fuzz  all over the place. Will it ever end?


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

You will now have to learn how to dose, KN03, KH2P04, Trace, C02 to keep the algae away, once you get it, it's cake...
Hang in there, you're learning.. lol


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

Thanks Craig

I have been useing the EI and think I have the BGA licked. I am fighting brown algae as explained in my other post.


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

Clownknife said:


> ...Should I dose more KNO3 and KH2P04 right now I am doseing 2.5tbls of KNO3 and 3/4 of a tablespoon of KH2P04. The CSM-B I am doseing 1-tbls on the off days.
> 
> The tank is a 200 gal with alot of fast growing stem plants.


Does anybody find this dosing regimen excessive? 2.5 tablespoons of KNO3 in a 200g (actually probably about 170g water volume) gives 39mg/l of NO3! 3 times a week?

3/4 tablespoon of KH2PO4 is 11.4mg/l of PO4 with each dose...

Can plant uptake rates be *that* high?


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

Your right Laith it is WAY excessive. Just one of the many mistakes I have made being new to the Planted Aquarium. 

I used chucks calculator and have decressed doseing a lot.


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

I really shouldn't reply to this but what the hay.

I get the impression from reading of this regime that it assumes a low bioload in the afflicted tank.

The blindly telling someone to toss KNO3 into a tank with BGA (on another forum) without asking existing tank parameters...

The afflicted tank turned out to have extremely high nitrates. Fortunately the owner was experienced enough to recognise that wasn't a good idea.

Interestingly enough, I never had more than the normalish green algae when my tank was set up previously - with plants. All I added was iron and florapride. No co2, no other trace, no phosphates (knowingly). Had a high bioload though - close to a dozen angels, several dozen assorted tetras, 4 clown loaches, a rainbow shark - all crammed into a 75. 80 watts NO lighting (the original strip light added 40 but it died). Had nice lush green sword carpet (probably needed more light to get them taller but they were far better than anything the pet store had)

Now... I still have low light (but that'll change soon), I have co2 (when the plumber's putty is sealing the tubing well), I have 6 fish total, none more than 1 1/2", and I've messed with ferts far more than I ever did before. I have BGA. Can't have come from the plants - I had none until I added the last 3 fish - can't have come from the fish - q/t tank (also planted) is clear.

I noticed a pattern though - one of the original 3 fish in this tank got ich. I treated using sea salt. Not long after that, I got thread algae, now BGA.

Same thing happened with daughter's tank (and nothing is shared between the tanks, btw) - fish got ich, used sea salt, thread algae, now BGA. Her fish was harder to cure so got more salt added. More thread algae, more BGA.

I'm almost willing to bet it's a trace overload coupled with low nitrates in both these tanks. (I did check the nitrates, btw. I also dosed the two tanks as they were both low. Mine is dying back, hers isn't. More water changes are needed I think)


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

bga is usually associated with pour water quality, low N03 and or dirty filter..one or all the above..you may have to dose Maracyn to get rid of it, and it will work, keep filter clean and N03 at a decent level, and it will not return.


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## Clownknife (Feb 11, 2004)

I have an update on the BGA. Well I have fought the algae fight and have come out victorious. 

I did a huge water change. Blacked out the tank for 3 1/2 days (per Tom Barr) added NO3 prior to and after blackout. Raised C02 level to 24+ ppm and have kept it there. I have also been useing the EI for doseing and haven't had any problems with algae since.

After all this trouble I now know what I did wrong. The tank didn't start out heavily planted. I was taking clipping from a friends tank and that is how I started mine. It wasn't until the plants grew in that the algae started to disipate. The blackout was used early on but the BGA returned within 3 days due to the lack of plants. 

All I had to do was apply what I was reading on this site instead of trying to cut corners and this nightmare would have never happened. 

It's weird now though I kinda miss the algae and how therapudic it was trying to rid my tank of it. Now the tank is crystal clear and the only therapy I get is on Saturday doing my water change and watching my fish and plants grow during the week.

Thanks to everyone on this site + Tom Barr and Greg Watson I have decided to stay with the planted aquarium. I would love to take pics and post them here but that will have to happen after I get a better camera than the sprint phone I am useing now.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Another soul saved from the satanic algae.

Regards, 
Tom Barr 

www.BarrReport.com


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