# 25g long & low rimless - it's actually pretty square now



## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

So after growing up in a house full of tanks and a couple of years of basic experience, I decided to spend what little disposable income I have on setting up the low-tech rimless tank of my dreams. Practically everything that could go wrong has done, Scottish Water supplier is sick of me tweeting them, and my friends think I'm mad (my constantly wet sleeves don't help) but I'm having a great time doing it. 

Here's the most up to date pic (06/03/20)










And here's the first pic - 1 month after set up.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

*Equipment*

Tank dimensions are 80cm long x 40cm wide x 30cm high and I ended up getting it custom-made due to a distinct lack of rimless tanks in my area. The stand is also custom-made using reclaimed wood and steel and I've been assured that it can hold the 300lb+ weight of the tank - let's hope they're right!

It's currently very low-tech with equipment as follows:
-800 l/h All Pond Solutions HOB filter
-All Pond Solutions heater

That's it. I haven't been able to source the sort of light I'm looking for yet, so right now the tank is running on sunlight alone. The crypts and anubias seem fine with this, but winters get DARK up north, so I'll be investing in this soon.

I've planted some long grassy plants in front of the filter and heater, so they'll hopefully be less obvious in future.

*Updated Equipment List (August 2019)*
- Asta Luminigrow Lights x2
- Eheim Ecco Pro 300 with Eheim modular spraybar
- Generic heater


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

*Stocking*

This is where I prove myself to be a bit of an idiot; I've spent the past year or so convinced that my pH is 7.4 as it was showing as the lowest on the "High pH" test and the highest on the "Low pH" test. It turns out that this is NOT the case and that my pH is just too low for the test, at around 6, throwing all previous stocking plans out the window. My kH and gH are also much lower than previously thought.

So current stocking is:
- 2x blue star endler (I'd been at my wit's end trying to work out why they wouldn't breed, now I know)
- 10x pygmy cory
- 4x zebra nerite and 1x ramshorn snail
- An ungodly number of malaysian trumpet snails that I give away en-masse every few months

After the whole water hardness revelation the other day, my planned stocking is as follows:
- 10x pygmy cory
- 10-15x chili rasbora
- 6-8x sparkling gourami
- 6x otocinclus
Aqadvisor tells me that this is pretty heavily stocked, but as the tank has a larger footprint than average, I may skip the otos and extra chilis, overfilter and add another group of something small

If I get chance, the endlers and snails will move to a smaller tank on the bottom shelf with hardness-increasing rock/substrate but that's for another journal.

*Plants*
I'm an absolute novice when it comes to plants, so I've stuck to supposedly hardy species:
- c. beckettii
- a. hastifolia
- a. nana
- java fern
- mystery dark grass
- mystery reedy grass
- mystery tiny crypt (no longer in state of mega-melt)

Once I've got lights, I'll be adding more hardscape rooted plants, especially on the rocks.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Looks like a nice start  The tall stuff in the background looks like vallis, and at a guess your reedy stuff could be hairgrass. 

I've a feeling sparkling gouramis can be territorial so you might want to double check that - you might find you'd do better with a trio - male and two females.

Best to just ignore ph altogether and focus on the gh instead. Otherwise, as you've found, you can drive yourself crazy. It's very variable and will change just with the lights (or sun) on/off in a planted tank as they photosynthesis.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks!  Vallis definitely seems right for the tall stuff, the other grassy stuff I was on about is the dark stuff on the left of the cory pic. It seems to be doing pretty well though, so I'm happy with it.

From what I've gathered, they're one of the few gouramis who can be kept in groups - the current plan is either a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio m:f but we'll see how that goes. Original plan was 3 honey gouramis (1:2), but I can't find the wild-types anywhere and am not a fan of the colourful strains.

Do you have any tips on bringing up gH? It's something i'm looking into, but my maintenance schedule is a bit odd right now - more on that in the next post.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

How low is your gh? You can use a 'gh booster' lots of brands available e.g. Seachem Equilibrium or remineraliser designed for RO (water with zero harness). Some increase just the GH or KH and some both. You can do DIY options like crushed coral but then it's hard to control exactly how much it's raised and keep it steady during water changes, so my preference is a measured amount.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks for the suggestions! I've done a little research and Seachem Equilibrium seems like the best bet, especially as I've loved the other Seachem products. Just need to figure out how on earth to use the stuff.

Parameters seem to be:
gH less than 3
kH 3-6
pH 6-6.4

Maintenance has become a weird one recently, after Scottish Water started using Chloramine instead of Chlorine to treat the water supply. Took me a little while to figure out what the heck was going on, and I'd initially attributed the sudden tank-wide fitting and mass deaths to be some sort of virus/neurological issue. Needless to say, Scottish Water were less than helpful and I think they may have blocked me on twitter.

To combat this I'm doing 10% water changes every other day and triple dosing Prime in the new water. So far, so good, and tank water readings are coming through at 0ppm Ammonia, which means no chloramine, which is what we like really. More maintenance also means that I can siphon up all the bits of crud that the wood's shedding, although the corys seem to love the stuff.

Oh, and here's some more photos:
I've added a (slightly tacky) bubble wand to increase surface agitation as I was having some issues with surface film
The terrible anglepoise lamp and tannins from new wood mean that the tank's pretty yellow, but I suppose this will sort with time.
I really like the view from the top though, still umming and ahhing over floating plants as my other tank has just been taken over by water lettuce. Looking forwards to having more shoaling stock to watch from above


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

I like it! I'd enjoy the tannins whilst they are there as a different look, and they'll clear up by themselves in time. Won't cause any harm. It's kinda of a nice effect actually 

The next step is deciding what you want your GH to be. I'd decide that based on your livestock, so think about what your final inhabitants will be and pick a number, then you can do the maths. For example, I pick GH 6, and I have fish that like softwater, but also cherry shrimp that don't like it too soft, GH 6 is about the minimum for them so that's what I go with.

You might find a TDS pen helpful for mixing water. They are about £7 and give an instant electronic reading. That way you can mix the water up once by measuring powder/testing GH, then check the TDS reading and use that in future to mix it the same.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks! I love the look of other people's tanks with tannins, but I'm kind of over it in my own tanks. My old fluval flex used to look like it was full of tea!

That's an awesome tip on the TDS pen, thank you! Nice to see someone else here from the UK


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Pygmy cories are so darn cute. I tried to keep some once, and was really disappointed it didn't work out (my betta objected to tankmates). Nice tank.


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> *Stocking*
> 
> This is where I prove myself to be a bit of an idiot; I've spent the past year or so convinced that my pH is 7.4 as it was showing as the lowest on the "High pH" test and the highest on the "Low pH" test. It turns out that this is NOT the case and that my pH is just too low for the test, at around 6, throwing all previous stocking plans out the window. My kH and gH are also much lower than previously thought.
> 
> ...



I've been there...


As a fellow UK hobbyist who spent every year in the hobby dealing with the worst, most fluctuating water parameters, in a developed EU country aka London... Trust me I've been there. But here's the thing, you can stock whatever you want. *IF* you can find it in an Edinburgh LFS you can keep it. The PH thing is slightly distorted as it refers to the parameters of fish's natural habitat. The difference is that our tropical fish are bred in Croatia, Czech Republic, and Lithuania. I've kept and "bred" ornamental shrimp that "require" specific PH and a low TDS in TDS of over 400 with ease.

I found out by mistake that if you can find a species in your LFS then, to a large degree, it's already acclimatized to your parameters. Another example, I found a rare apistogramma a couple of years ago. And by "Rare" I mean I've only ever seen it on sale once here in the UK. Breeding PH was reportedly 5-6. My PH was 8.something. Within 3 days the apistos spawned and I raised the fry through to juvies without issue.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Glad it's not just me. I grew up in an area with liquid rock and stable parameters so this absolutely blindsided me. You're right, if a fish has survived long enough in an LFS, then it will probably be alright, but I'll be sticking with soft water as I've always liked them but never been able to keep them.

Bump: ...Which brings me to my next update - endler fry!

This shouldn't be surprising really, but I initially bought 2 pairs from down South about 6 months ago and never saw any fry. Lost one of the males very early on, but he hadn't been right to begin with. Out of the remaining 2 females, one was very territorial, wouldn't let the other 2 near her, and was very skinny (will attach a photo below.) She'd body-slap and bite the other much healthier & pregnant looking female and I'd just assumed that I wasn't getting any fry because of these issues. Lost the "healthy" female during chloramine issues, but since then, "skinny" female has mellowed out a lot, is a much better shape, and is now dropping fry! 

Currently at 13 fry and have been since noticing them 8 days ago. We'll see how they grow in such soft water, but there's been no predation whatsoever. If they sell well locally then I'll put off the sparkling gouramis for a while, if not, I'll rehome some of these and bring in "population control" before I get overrun.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I always think I don't know what I'd do if I had fry- room to grow? where to put them when they mature? but when a cherry barb fry showed up in one of my tanks, I sure was eager to help that little guy grow. And I'm always enthralled when I see tiny livebearer fry at the pet store. Just stare at them- so small, so perfect.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

They really are very sweet, which makes just finding one dead in my filter pretty brutal.

Just came home to find a dead cory stuck to the filter intake and a fry dead inside the media, both pretty recently deceased. Don't think they got sucked into the filter alive. Tests show tank at 0.5ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, <10ppm nitrate, so have done a minor water change and dosed prime. Don't want to do too large of a water change as my local water is treated with chloramine and god knows what else and I still don't trust it 100% even after prime. 

Thought the corys were looking a bit timid last night so was looking about for them, could only count 8 but thought they were just keeping out the way somewhere, definitely wasn't one stuck to the filter then. Had just finished a 12 hour shift so thought I'd be better doing water changes today as less likely to make mistakes. Just goes to show that you really need to trust your instincts and do a water change whenever things are looking off. Counted 7 just now, so could well have lost another 2 without realising.

Not sure if the ammonia spike caused the deaths or the deaths caused the ammonia spike, I doubt a small cory & a titchy fry could take a 25g up to .5 ammonia in less than 24 hours though. Both corpses had minor popeye too, although nothing living does so it could well be decomposition. Life has been busy/$#^t recently so I'd only been doing water changes every 3 or 4 days and my boyfriend has fed the tank some mornings as I leave very early. Need to make more time for them even if life is busy, have learnt my lesson. 

Just scared of losing the lot, I lost 6 pygmy corys to fitting earlier this year, horrible drawn out experience over 2 weeks where I had no clue what was going on and couldn't bring myself to euthanise. Turned out that they'd started dosing chloramine and my previous dechlorinator didn't work anymore.

Feeling a bit disheartened right now, will get back into it though.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Spoke to my SO immediately after he got home on 8th and it turns out that he's been overfeeding, which explains a lot, and is easily fixed at least. Have done more water changes and tests since then and all seems fine, but will keep an eye on it. 

Aside from this blip, things are going well! My parents gifted me some plants recently, all seem to have acclimatized well apart from the anubias, but that's no surprise. Fry are growing quickly and are still at 10+, some of them are getting a nice blue sheen too. The anubias hastifolia has sprouted a new leaf, mondo grass is doing well after I finally ID'd it and moved it out of the water, and the emergent moss is has some strange little sprouts - excited to see what these become!

Excuse the terrible quality photos, I still don't have a proper light and haven't got round to getting out my camera. Considering that this isn't a particularly ground-breaking tank anyway, this journal is more for myself than anything.


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## TacitBlues (Aug 4, 2016)

lookin' good, though.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Thank you! Doing some maintenance tonight, will try and get a good FTS as it's changed a little recently


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Note for self: 
Aquarium Lab Test-
Tap water pH ~7.5
Tank pH ~7
Tank kH ~2
Tank gH ~4

Test strip-
Tank pH 6.4 (lowest)
Tank kH ~4
Tank gH ~4

Please disregard.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Change of focus around this tank as I wait for everything to fall into place.

*Livestock Update*
I ended up losing all but 3 of the pygmy corys, once again to sudden fitting. This has happened twice now after large water changes, so am looking into pH/gH/kH but three different tests are giving 3 different readings. Of course I always match temperatures and treat with Prime. Not stressing too much about it now though as I won't be getting any new stock for a while, and certainly won't be trying pygmy corys again.

Fortunately, the endlers are hard as nails and doing great! Juvenile fry are now 6 weeks old and colouring up nicely, I believe I have 12. There's also 3 fry that I'd guess are around 1-2 weeks old. Predation from siblings was pretty heavy this time, but I suppose that's the way nature is - and it stops me from getting overstocked too quickly. I'll be selling a trio later this week, but am still gauging local interest and plan on keeping the best of the juvies a) in case they do sell well locally and b) to mature the tank ready for later inhabitants...

Although not 100% set in stone yet, my mum is planning on raising some of the fry from her breeding group of Gold Laser Corys (CW010) as the current shoal is getting a bit older and no eggs/fry have reached maturity since adding other tankmates a few years ago. Realistically, I won't be taking any fry until after the new year, probably Spring, so this allows for the tank to mature and for me to work out water parameters/additives etc. Hopefully they'll thrive up here as the water is a bit softer, but they've been pretty hardy in the 8+ years that my family have kept them, who incidentally can't seem to keep pygmy corys alive either. Should they thrive, I'll certainly think about setting up a breeding tank as odd corys are popular round here.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

*Plant Update*

Everything doing well enough apart from my largest clump of anubias nana petite, which melted to nothing in less than 48 hours. I had it out of the tank for 20 minutes or so while rearranging some rocks, so perhaps it dried out. Everything else is growing slowly but surely, which is fine by me, although I could do with getting some more root tabs. Thinking about getting a dwarf lily/tiger lotus for the back-right of the tank as I've now got a large space there, but that will need more light than I'm currently providing.

*Equipment Plans*

*Lights*
No new equipment as of yet, but I'll finally be getting actual lights for the tank later this month. I'm thinking 2 of these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075D9N...olid=3VOKG9IJ7ORCR&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it 

As the tank is in a bay window, I've not wanted to try out new lighting until now, simply because winter's dark enough that I _should_ be able to figure out lighting periods, intensity, etc. without too much of an algae breakout. My plan for the first attempt is to have them on 7am-9am and 4pm-10pm all at 50% brightness, and then work it out from there. We'll see how it goes - I've certainly been wrong before!

*Cover*
Another plan that won't begin until the new year, but I've starting planning a DIY collapsible cover. The thread is here https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...lapsible-tank-cover-tell-me-why-im-wrong.html, but here's a very scientific & accurate post-it note mock-up should you not fancy reading it. I'm lucky to have a friend who specialises in laser-cut acrylic, so will be using this, netting, and non-permanent adhesives.


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## TacitBlues (Aug 4, 2016)

*25g long &amp; low rimless - now with 800% more endlers*

I really like those endlers. When I think about what kind I’d like to get I waffle between these blue ones or lime green ones. Or some sort of straight wild type. Or or or... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@TacitBlues I can be a bit of a purist when it comes to these things, so these are n-class wild type blue star endlers, supposedly traceable back to when they were first collected. That said, there's a lot of beautiful hybrids out there, but their fry won't sell for as much as the wild types of course. Have you looked into Micropoecilia?


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## TacitBlues (Aug 4, 2016)

I haven't really, they don't seem to be very easy to come across here at least. I really like the idea of having n-class endlers, too, since it seems that they're mostly gone from the wild.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@TacitBlues I get you, it's nice knowing that there's so many n-class endlers thriving in captivity seeing as it's not looking great for their wild counterparts.

Finally got round to taking another full-tank photo, almost exactly 3 months after set up. If anyone's wondering what plants can be grown with minimal light and ferts, this is what's working for me:

Anubias Hastifolia
Anubias nana petite
Anubias barteri nana
Cryptocoryne Beckettii
Java fern
Marimo moss balls
Water lettuce
Duckweed

Vallis was also doing quite well, but I've moved it over to a different tank. Attaching a photo of this too as I'm quite happy with it, considering it's entirely decorated with spares.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Love how those water lettuce roots look. I used to have a few in an outdoor container, but when I tried to bring them indoors for winter, they didn't transition well, all died. Must try again with some that are already tank-grown.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@JJ09 I bought mine off amazon, although accidentally bought normal water lettuce instead of the dwarf variety, so am not sure how it was grown. These have proven super hardy and fast growing in tanks, although need a reasonable amount of light to grow larger than an inch or so. The few that I gave to my parents for their pond have taken over the entire thing (about 5' by 5') and are about the size of my palm now. Would totally recommend trying again if you can!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

*Update: Let there be light!*

*Equipment:*

I finally got round to getting lights and am really happy with them so far! They're some sort of Chinese knock-off called Luminigrow, but they seem relatively decent quality and are more than enough for my plants. The gooseneck is easy to use and the dimmer isn't bad either - the only concern I have is that they quite very warm after running for a couple of hours. 



















I also chucked in a super cheap internal filter as I'd noticed an increase in detritus as the endler fry grew. Wouldn't trust the filter by itself, but it's done a great job of getting the water crystal clear. It's recently hit me how much easier the hobby is after you've spent some time doing it - not just because of experience etc. but because you have the spares on hand for what you need.

*Plants*

Everything seems to be doing well enough so far, although I'm keeping an eye of for algae. I recently added some "TNC" fertiliser plugs so we'll see how those do.

Anubias Hastifolia is sending out more leaves:










Mondo Grass is doing well both submerged and emersed. The moss needs tying on tighter and a bit of a trim, hopefully that will get it to attach better.










The java fern seems to have gone a very bright green recently and is sending out lots of plantlets:









I've also planted a dwarf tiger lotus bulb on the right-hand side of the tank, but it's not much to look at right now. If it goes well, I'll plant one in the left-hand corner as I'd like some more surface cover there too. Just planning on letting it grow to the surface.

Anyone have any idea on this mystery crypt? I'm thinking maybe crypt parva, not that it matters anyway as it was given to me for free due to its extreme state of melt.











*Livestock*

Lost the last little cory, leaving me with the two originals. I'm wondering if it's possibly some sort of disease that they could have been carrying. Not worrying too much though, just sticking to endlers for a while, while I get more experience. Endlers are doing great though, managed to count up 7 juvie males, 5 juvie females, 3 fry, and of course the adult male and female, so 17 total.

All 17, shortly after a water change:










And the adult male posing with some ferns:










Next steps are moving the right-hand clump of java fern to the far-right portion of the wood, so that it hides the equipment. Will also need to get something low-light and low-effort to plant behind the wood, potentially on both sides. Maybe water wisteria?


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

*Things going wrong. Again.*

Weekly update, not a great one.

Lost at least one, probably two young female endlers in the last 72 hours. Timeline below:

Thursday Night:
- Water change done. Parameters before change: gH 3 kH 2 pH 6.6ish. Tap water 7.6 so clearly experiencing swings. Tried adding snail shells but later tests have shown no difference, will gradually start using bicarb in WCs
- One 2 month old female looking very large and pregnant, had a weird bulge on one side of ribs. Swimming and eating fine so gave her the benefit of the doubt as she looked ready to pop.

Friday Morning:
- Fed fish and all seemed fine. Fry had been dropped at some point in the night, only one survivor and some "nibbled" fry seen.
- Checked tank in the evening, all fine

Weekend:
- I work 12 hour shifts on Saturdays and Sundays so fish are fed by my SO who knows how much to feed. He doesn't spend much time watching the tank though and doesn't really know what to look out for. 

Monday Morning:
- Checked tank and found an endler head in the filter intake, max time there 48 hours although pretty decomposed. Removed head and checked ammonia - 0. Headed out to work, planning to do WC today as usual. 
- Only fish missing was previously mentioned large juvie female, assumed that she'd had a bad time dropping fry

Today (Tuesday):
- Fed fish and all seemed fine but males severely harassing the adult female, who also seems to have dropped fry overnight. No survivors seen yet.
- Water change started, 2 gallons removed, sand vacuumed, potential low flow spots stirred up with a turkey baster and detritus removed.
- Checked the filters and both were working fine, it was only then that I noticed a juvie female alive and stuck to HOB intake. Turned off straight away and she then stuck to the second filter, also turned off. She floated to the bottom and is still alive. She has a curved spine, but it doesn't seem broken, and a broken pectoral, but she seems to be trying to swim even though she's sat on the floor. Haven't euthanised yet as I keep telling myself that she may have a chance, although not sure I believe it. Nothing bothering her so I'll leave her be until the morning and reassess.
-Finished topping off tank (+4 gallons due to evaporation) and turned on filters. Piece of sh*t second filter has now cut out. Wrapped sponge around the HOB intake just in case, although nothing living has been sucked in since covering the skimmer.

I have no idea what's going on with this tank, the pH swings really aren't ideal at all and I won't be adding any new stock until I have a fix (and stop losing fish) but all the endlers were bred in this situation. I'm now down to 2 or 3 juvie/adult female endlers and 8 males, so it could be that they're being harassed until exhaustion, especially as they're all dropping fry for the first time. Doesn't help that what I think are "females" keep growing gonopodiums and turning out to be late bloomers.

Setting up my spare Spec V in a moment with the biomedia from the broken filter, sand, plants, and stones from the tank and will chuck in stability too. Once settled and temperature matched, I'll move a few of the males in to give the females some breathing space and see if that helps at all. Any help on this would be hugely appreciated.


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## csp (Dec 15, 2013)

oh, this is beautiful. I hope you get it fine tuned since it's a lovely tank.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@csp thank you! That means a lot  

Moved the 5 least desirable males into the spec v today to give the females some breathing space - would have been better if I could have put them in the flex, but I don't trust the betta with them at all. The adult female is still getting harassed a little so will see how it goes. Not sure what to do with the 5 males, might sell them or might wait until I get round to setting up a tank at work. Either way, my bf isn't too enthusiastic about having 3 tanks in the living room, but he'll live haha

Welcome to juvie jail:









And its slightly sub-par inhabitants:


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Overdue update:

I forgot to upload a bunch of photos from late last month, and the tank looks quite nice in them, so here we go:

FTS









Crypt corner









The two remaining corys - unsure on what to do with them really









Fern nursery









Unfortunately, my large bunch of crypt beckettii, new crypt nevilli, and the majority of my anubias nana & barteri has suddenly turned yellow and/or melted. I'd imagine it's some sort of deficiency as they were experiencing fantastic growth for a couple of weeks after the TNC tabs and then have suddenly started deteriorating - manganese perhaps? The dwarf tiger lotus is doing fantastically, and I think that may be the culprit. Will start dosing ferts (probably TNC Complete) but am very busy over the next few weeks, so this is going to have to wait a bit. 

Finally, here's a quick update on the spec v - even though it's a different tank, it still hosts part of the endler colony, so I'd like to keep track of this too. Currently housing 4 "ugly babies" as they were picking on the "ugliest" so he was moved back to main tank. 

FTS - did some quick decorating with spares as SO thought it looked "depressing" before. Incidentally, does anyone know how to keep terrestrial ferns alive? 









And the best of the ugly babies - interesting dorsal fin, although I'm unsure if this should be happening in supposed n-class offspring


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Not too much to update but I've finally got round to taking some photos of the tank. 

The lily has taken off and looks incredible. I'd like to let it reach the surface and see how it looks.










Everything else is doing okay, the yellowing seems to have stopped. Only difference is that the tank lights weren't turned on while I was away for a few days, so it just received sunlight.



















Crypt nevelli with new growth after initial melt. That male endler has been the slowest developer and had to be moved back from the spec v due to bullying.










The endler colony is doing well, expecting new fry in the next week. One of the 2nd set of juvies is showing colours, hopefully the other will be female.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Few changes over the last couple of weeks, I'll get the parameters out of the way first. Scroll down for photos of new plants and tank rearrangement.

Was advised by a family friend to use JBL Aquadur for gH and kH instead of Equilibrium and Baking Soda. As she's kept and bred fish in extremely soft water for ~50 years, I thought I'd give it a whirl. First dose today with water changes in all tanks.

Water parameters out of the tap: 

2dgH 
1.5dkH 
7-7.2 pH

Water parameters in tank: 

5dgH (had dosed Equilibrium the previous week) 
1.5kdH 
6.4-6.6 pH

The instructions state that 18.75g raises 100l by 2.5dkH and 3.2dgH, so a 20l water change requires 3.75g and should result in new water having 5dgH and 4dkH. After a few weeks of water changes, the tank's ~80l of water should be at the same level. Will test gH, kH, and pH this evening once settled and will update. If anyone is reading this, please let me know if my maths checks out!

I also started dosing TNC complete at about a half dose today - 5ml per week, in addition to root tabs already there. Although the lily has taken off, everything else seems to have suffered as the nutrient needs increase. A lot of reviews recommend using the liquid carbon alongside - does anyone use liquid carbon? I can't seem to find any definitive info on why or how it works, other than CO2 being good in general. Would love a CO2 set up at some point, but don't have the time for it right now.

Have been getting small amounts of hair algae for the past month, but nothing that can't be removed. Have reduced lighting times, but need to get some better timer plugs. 

*Now for the bit with photos!*

A box of Echinodorus Ozelot Green and Cryptocoryne Parva arrived yesterday after being lost in the post for over a week. Both plants seemed surprisingly alright, although were a little battered. Originally I was just going to plant them, but 4 hours later and I was surrounded by bits of soggy rock, thread, and plant trimmings as I'd ended up doing some major rearranging.

Full shot, complete with the Victorian ex-slums I live opposite from:










Rearranged the wood on the left-hand side to create a taller cave and replaced the stone with a few thinner bits. I also removed some of the larger rocks on the right-hand side to make room for the crypt parva, who has been planted throughout. Hoping to grow some light carpeting over the next few decades... C Beckettii and Nevelli were pulled and younger plants separated to spread round the tank too. 

Left-hand side:










All that java fern is two rhizomes - one on the wood and one on a piece of dragon stone at the back. Both wood and stone need some anubias, some buce too perhaps? Either way, that moss needs _something_ doing but I'm not sure on what. Tank inhabitants are already enjoying poking about the plants and cave, hopefully it'll provide much-needed hiding space for fry too.

Right-hand side:










Ditto for the moss on this side. Eventually I'll get a lovely canister filter with heater compartment, but right now I need something big and bushy to hide the equipment and mossball wasteland below it. I really like the texture of water wisteria and bolbitis fern, but can't find either anywhere. I've got a new lily bulb and the old one off the current plant currently tucked in to the back, might keep the resulting plant there, might move to a different tank. 

Oh and here's a photo of the underside of a lily that I trimmed - I never realised how purple they are!











Livestock-wise, everyone is doing fine and I spotted 6 or 7 fry on 30/12. 5 seem to be remaining and are now big enough to avoid being eaten. I've now separated 5 juvie males into the Spec V to sell as I still have a major ratio imbalance. If all seems to go well with parameters in the next few weeks, I may add either a couple of honey gouramis or a few corydoras. Still waiting to see if I'll end up with gold-stripe corys from my family, but they've ended up raising rainbow fry for now. I can make room for them either way though.

If corys, I'm stuck between trilineatus and sterbai - the trilineatus are a little smaller and I believe a little hardier, but the sterbai are less likely to be wild-caught. Tank is 25C so is on the upper bounds for first and lower bounds for second. Any thoughts?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I would definitely want c. sterbei over c. trilineatus. No challenge there. 

Your tanks look really great. I love its naturalness- but, that is the way I like my own tanks. I love the view out your window, even though it is buildings. The brick looks like it is from an older, but refined building. 

You should be raising some of those rare, soft water species that everyone would die to raise but dont have the soft, acidic water to do so. You have excellent water.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Beautiful tank, I like the layout. Keep posting photos, it'll be fun to see how the tank progresses.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@Discusluv Thank you for the kind words, it really means a lot! I absolutely adore your Geophagus tank and have wanted Surinamensis since meeting aforementioned friend's one as a kid  Your new biotope is looking really exciting too! The buildings opposite are early 1800s, like much of Edinburgh.

The sterbai are definitely the nicer option, but I'm concerned as to how delicate they are. Nothing new is going into the tank until I'm certain that my pH has stopped swinging and all is fine, but I'm trying to stick with the hardiest fish possible and set myself up for success. I grew up helping run ~14 tanks, but there's a *big* difference between helping and doing it myself, so I don't want to get too ahead of myself with only a couple of years' actual experience. One thing that really concerns me is that my water is treated with chloramine and so reads at 0.25ppm ammonia straight out the tap. Of course Prime binds this and the 0.06ppm (assuming 25% WC) is processed very quickly, but would this concern you?

And that's the aim one day! Just need to get the relevant experience first - and move to a bigger home with floorboards I can trust!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

If your tank is well-established, over 3 months without any mini-cycling incidents, then I wouldn't worry at that level of ammonia because between the plants and the cycle it will be converted quickly. 

I would ask the store that you get them from to feed them. Look that they move towards the food and eat- not stay still in the corner when food is dropped in. No clamped fins, eyes bright, active, no sunken tummies. 
Get at least 6-8. 
Weekly water changes, high-quality foods, and sand ( which you have).


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Thelongsnail said:


> ........
> Oh and here's a photo of the underside of a lily that I trimmed - I never realised how purple they are!


Wow that is a vivid color.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@Ken Keating1 I'm so sorry, I've just seen your comment. Thank you so much! Your advice on other threads has helped me a lot  
@JJ09 I was really surprised too! They don't look overly purple until they're out of the water, but they're incredible once they are.

I was going to post photos of the new amanos and ferns, in addition to a couple of photos of other tank set ups, but they won't load. Will update this comment in the morning.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Very lovely tanks! 
What's the air temp humidity in your home (by the 25g long)? I'd love to let my anubias grow above the water line (have a big dream to get my hands on anubias gigantea some day) but always worried the air is too dry here to let ti get emersed.

As for keeping terrestrial ferns alive:humidity but not drowning them in water. Many people put a shallow tray of water under them in the warm months. I kept a rabbitsfoot fern in a 20g high with 1" water at the bottom pot was raised just above water line, and a lid-kept it humid, misted roots 2 times a week.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@AquaAurora the air humidity can't be very high at all, the tank is next to a window and the flat has been pretty chilly while we sorted out heating suppliers. In fact, the anubias has had some browning round the edges recently, and I think it might be due to that. Heating sorted now though, so hopefully it will bounce back. Thanks for the tips on the fern! I think it's too far gone this time, but I'll remember this next time I try again.

Pic of the edges here:









Speaking of heating, I noticed a few days ago that the tank was at 21C and probably had been for a few days. Cue lots of grumbling as I clattered about to find a spare heater, but have swapped the old one out for something more substantial. I've been raising the temperature up slowly, so they're currently at 23C and will be back at 25C by the weekend. No casualties fauna-wise, even the tiny babies were fine, but I'm keeping an eye out for white spot etc. Some of my crypts yellowed as seen below, but it hasn't spread after pruning this off.










I was going to do a bigger update but my photos aren't loading. Will get round to it tomorrow.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

*Fry Control Suggestions?*

Very busy recently and still can't get half my pics onto Google Photos for some reason. A few dozen fry have appeared over the last few days, the higher gH and lack of pH swings has increased numbers of fry dropped dramatically. 

I'm going on a 10 day holiday in March, so "Population Control" will be brought in soon, possibly tomorrow if I have the chance. A couple of friends will be tank/flat sitting, and although they'll be fine with doing top-ups and feeding pre-measured food, I could do without a population explosion just now. 

Just going to see what the shop has in stock, would love something weird and wonderful, but will probably end up with honey gouramis. Key factors are:
1. Fits in with my relatively soft water
2. Will do okay in a relatively new (6 month old) tank 
3. Will eat titchy fry
4. Social - would like a pair of something if possible
5. Will not constantly try and fling itself out of the top of my tank (Yes, I know all fish can jump, but I keep the water line >1 inch below the top, and some fish are less likely than others)
6. Will not breed and result in me having even more fry

Anyway, here's some photos of everyone enjoying an algae tablet that was supposed to be for the shrimp



















And one from a bit of a different angle:


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Not really felt like taking too many photos as I've had a bit of hair algae and BBA. Gave the affected plants a good trim and removed the java moss so the tank could do with a little bit of time to grow out again. The tank has been set up for 6 months now though, so I was expecting something like this to happen soon. I'll be getting an Eheim Ecco 300 for my birthday at the end of March, (happy 24th to me!) so hopefully the increased flow will help - it will certainly help my electricity bill either way.

The endlers are fine and the harder water seems to be better for fry - no surprise there. Something has set the amanos off on a mating frenzy the last few days, and the males are still zooming around the tank. Here's one taking a well-earned bloodworm break between rounds:











I finally went out to get honey gouramis this week, but unfortunately they were still being quarantined in the shop. However...




























They had a single m/f pair of Scarlet Badis that I couldn't not take home. I'd looked everywhere for a pair for my 60l, and I'd wanted a group for this tank long before getting the endlers, but couldn't find anything more than a couple of males here and there. Apparently they'd been in the shop for a while and were happily taking frozen food, so I snapped them up.

The male is much smaller than the female, and a little skinny, but has rounded out a bit and brightened up in the last 48 hours. Unsurprisingly, he spends most of his time hunting around the crypts for microscopic creatures to eat, but seems to be settling in well. He doesn't seem sure on frozen food yet, but tried a bit of mysis shrimp earlier after I waved it in front of him with some tweezers. I'll keep an eye on him and may do some moving around so he can have the 5g to himself, should he still look a touch skinny in a few weeks. Neither pays the other any attention in the slightest right now, but it would be great if they pair off once he matures a bit.

To give an idea of size, the endler fry pictured here is about 1 week old and they're both next to some nerite eggs.









The female, on the other hand, has rounded out considerably in the last 2 days, and is spending nearly as much time in the mid/top section of the tank as she is in the crypts and caves. She's taken well to bloodworm but was wholly unimpressed by today's mysis shrimp, and spends most of her time trying to eat fry half her size. I'm not sure if she's been successful yet, but she's giving it a good go - especially after the lights turn off.










Not much else to report other than this. pH, gH, and kH all seem stable since using JBL and all 3 tanks are ticking over nicely. Here's a quick pic of the wood muffler I "made" to slow the flow in the fluval flex - it's a bit of curved spiderwood (or similar) with a torn up moss ball, anubias coffeefolia, and a bit of mondo grass chucked on. Not sure where the java fern came from, but it's a welcome addition, along with the occasional titchy springtail that appears. The coffeefolia here has grown much faster that its underwater counterparts.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

V. cool. I've always liked the look of badis. Hope they do well in your tank!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Nice dario dario (scarlet badis). I've thought abut getting them for my 5-12g tanks before but the if-y-ness of them taking frozen foods makes me just stick to easy betta instead.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@JJ09 @AquaAurora Thank you both!

Hoping they are both in fact Dario Dario, I wouldn't be overly surprised if the female turned out to be a juvenile Badis Badis, due to the darker stripes, dorsal and tail spot, and the fact that she's already 2.5cm. We'll see how she turns out. 

I'm more open to keeping them than I was previously as the shop had already weaned them onto frozen food while in quarantine (or so they said). The size of the tank (around 25g) also means that it will host more microorganisms than a 5g, especially as the footprint is larger than average at 3.2m square (80cm long x 40cm wide). If I can find ghost shrimp, I'll introduce a colony so that they can hunt the larvae, and I'm hoping they can eat the amano shrimp larvae, if they even hatch. The female is already eating well however, we'll just have to see about the male.

I've kept a few bettas and although they're nice enough fish, I've found them to be pretty hit and miss regarding both health and personality. My current betta is very much loved, but I don't see myself getting any more in future.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

I can't believe it's been nearly 2 months since I updated this, life has been busy recently. Thankfully all three tanks were fine while we were in Taiwan, just had a bit of algae that crept up. Pretty boring update below, this is more for me to get a plan in place and a reference post rather than anything exciting.

Big tank:
I changed the HOB filter for an Eheim Ecco Pro 300 on 25/03, moving over old filter media etc. It's practically silent and the flow is great, surprisingly not too much for the tank's inhabitants. I feel a bit safer regarding stocking considering the filter rating, although there didn't seem to be any issues previously. The tubes and in/out flow are bright green and much too long for the tank though, so I'll be swapping these out for clear & stainless steel when I get the chance.

The tank is getting a fairly wide array of algae right now, mainly hair, some bba on the bolbitis fern and c. parva, very mild cyanobacteria on the front patch of sand, and a general dusting of green here and there. I wouldn't call it a crisis though and have been on top of the cyanobateria, I think this is just because the tank only received top ups for 12ish days and of course it's in a window. Lighting has been cut down to the hours between 3:30pm and 10pm so we'll see how it goes. I'd like to get a group of 6 otos soon though so will always need to have at least some visible algae for them to graze on.

Plants are growing well enough, although took a bit of a hit as they weren't being fertilised while we were away. The bolbitis fern and anubias have a fair amount of algae and the java ferns are looking a tad battered, but the crypts and two tiger lotuses are doing well. The second lotus is growing in much more green than red, but it's a nice plant nonetheless. C. balansae is thriving and should make a nice wall in the back. I'll tear down the 5G in a couple of months and move all the vallis into this tank but have no idea where it will fit. I got some buce with the shrimps too, but it needs properly attaching to the wood.

Badis:
The large female is pretty much confirmed as a badis badis at this point, she's now 3.5cm+, very stripy, and a fry/frozen food eating machine. Although I'm not happy that I was mis-sold a fish, she's a lovely little thing and possibly my favourite fish that I've kept. I've noticed her being a little nippy on occassion, but only ever with fish that are getting in her way, no chasing etc.

The male badis wasn't looking great once we came back from the holiday, nitrates didn't seem particularly high from what I remember, but I think he was getting out-competed for food and territory by the chameleon badis. Cue some minor stock switching, in which I filled the 5g with a bunch of cherry shrimp + shrimplets, planted much more heavily, and moved him into there by himself a few weeks ago. Although he was active in there and his stomach rounded out, I found him dead yesterday morning. No external symptoms aside from being pale, but the shrimps had got to him before I did. I never actually saw him properly take frozen food, and definitely should have known what the LFS was saying was too good to be true.

Endlers:
The colony is doing well, although I think it would take a nuke to make any difference to them. That said, I've had the original pair for just over a year now, and the male is starting to look a bit older. Numbers have leveled at around 30-40 thanks to the badis. I'll be taking 6 or 7 males down to my parents' house next week as they're tearing down the 2 & a bit tanks they have and moving everything into an old 4ft.

Going forwards
I need to do some moving about and try and get back down to 2 tanks instead of 3. The main issue right now is separating the endlers so that in 6 months I'll only have fry if I want them. Things are nowhere near critical now but I also don't want to put myself in that situation.

Current plans are:
1. 7ish males go in the 5g spec ASAP and hope they don't decimate my cherry shrimp.
2. 7ish males go down to my parents' house.
3. 7ish females stay in the big tank for the next 6 months.
4. Sell/trade the rest of the colony. Worst comes to the worst, I'll give them to a local shop.
5. Slowly stock the tanks with the stocking lists below, starting the pygmy corys in the main tank to grow out a bit before going in the flex. 
6. Once females stop self-fertilising, move them into the flex with the betta. There is no way he'd be able to keep up with the fry if they were moved now, nor do I have any desire to try and catch fry in that tank. 
7. Move males into the big tank (so long as the badis don't appear to be a threat to them.)
8. Finish stocking whatever is left.
9. Relax and enjoy my tanks (as if that would ever happen)

Eventual Stocking Lists (for now):
Main Tank - 25g, 80cm l x 30cm h x 40cm d
2x Badis Badis, m/f
7x male Endler
6x Oto
10x Harlequin Rasbora (or similar shoaling fish)
6x Kuhli loach (or perhaps mid-size cory)
5x Amano shrimp
??? x Cherry shrimp

Fluval Flex 15g
1x male Betta
7x female Endler
6x Pygmy Cory

We'll see if it works, but I have several back-up plans if not. Good luck to me over the next 6ish months I guess!


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Thelongsnail said:


> . . . .
> 9. Relax and enjoy my tanks (as if that would ever happen) . . . .


Hm, somehow I never reach this point, either. Always end up finding something to change, or new to try.

Too bad you lost the male badis.

No pictures?


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@JJ09 I'm mainly just trying to wrap my head around what I need to get done, but I'll attach a photo of my tank below so you can have a laugh at the monstrous tubing situation going on right now. 

I'll stick up a photo of my boldest shrimp too - they're mixed colours and not great quality, but I only bought them so the scarlet badis could eat the shrimplets. This particular one would not let go of the badis's body when I found it, part of the grimmer side of fishkeeping I suppose. Was a bit gutted to find him, but not surprised. Serves me right for listening to the advice of someone trying to sell me something, no more impulse buys for me.

Edit: I don't think anyone is ever 100% happy with their tanks here, it's nice to know we're not alone haha


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Photo update!

I bought 6 otos yesterday, all farm raised and all with fat little tummies. They seem pretty full-grown to me, but my sense of scale regarding fish seems to be a little off, probably due to all my fish being nano fish. They're settling in but were a little jumpy when I left for work this morning.










I also picked up some Crypt Undulata - you can just about see it mixed in with the rest of the crypts here:










Crypt Balansae is growing well in the back, I hope to have a nice wall of it eventually. As you can see though, the bolbitis fern on the left is not doing well regarding algae.










I threw it in the spec shrimp tank for them to sort out - they did such a good job sorting out the c parva that this is their job now. The yellow shrimp was on it in seconds, and there were 12+ on by the time I went to bed last night. The yellow shrimp seems to be some sort of matriarch (if shrimp have those) and definitely calls the shots around the tank. She's berried again but the last ones came out blue. Not expecting much from cheap shrimps off facebook though, so anything is a bonus.










The female badis is doing well and is interested in everything. She's been named Belinda after a friend of ours who was flat-sitting while we were on holiday. She's also a confirmed Chameleon Badis! I asked in the shop yesterday and they had a tank full of them, most are bigger than she is now, so I can see how she got mixed in with the scarlet badis a couple of months ago. Most seemed to be males so she's a little paler, but a much nicer shape and quality I think - although I'm probably biased. The anubias in this photo will be going in with the shrimp once they're done with the fern.










And here she is in full stripy-mode - this was actually taken 2 months ago but she's camera shy and I don't have any others.










The endlers are doing well, as seen by them photo-bombing pretty much every picture I take. They never seem to stay still for an actual photo though. Turns out that my bf likes the shrimp tank and I'll hold onto anything that he likes in the hopes that he'll start liking fish, so that's staying. 5 male endlers will go in there soonish, just want to let my shrimp population expand first.

Unsurprisingly, I've changed my mind regarding future stocking ALREADY. I actually really loved watching my parents' CPDs while visiting, so think I might go for a group of 15. My LFS also had rosy loaches in yesterday - I'd seen them online and liked them, but loved them in person. They'll be the last addition, but I'd like a group of 12. It would be fantastic to see two groups of fish that are from the same habitat, and according to Seriously Fish, the water tends to be no deeper than 30cm (the same as my tank!) and full of vegetation (working on that bit!) Once the endlers and pygmy cory are moved, it will be a (very very loose) SE Asian biotope, which would be nice. I've also ordered clear tubing and glass filter tubes - I wanted stainless steel but glass was much cheaper. They'll take a while to arrive but should be a huge improvement. C parva and some frogbit are also winging their way over.

Last of all, here's a quick photo of the planted mound/filter muffler in my fluval flex - the anubias coffeefolia is flowering, and I'm really happy with how the mystery buce and java fern have adapted!


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## redneck joe (Mar 13, 2019)

Very nicd.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I believe I have the same Badis... I’m not sure the species. Having seen Badis Badis before I’m pretty sure they are not the same fish.

I believe they may be species tuivaiei or juergenschmidti.

Here they are...











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

This is an enormous help, thank you so much. 

Looking at the photos and the species' Seriously Fish profiles, I'm leaning towards female Badis tuivaiei. I suppose I'll find out as she matures, I'd rather she didn't reach 8cm though. If you have any further information on them, I'd love to read it.

Not ideal though - the shop has several male badis the spitting image of her being sold as Badis Badis.

Edit: I've fallen deep into looking at pictures of described and undescribed badis and I have no idea anymore. I'm very attached anyway, so I suppose it doesn't matter as long as care is similar to other badis species.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@vvDO it's a slow morning at work and I just stumbled across this:

http://www.senckenberg.de/files/con...60-3/04_vertebrate_zoology_60-3_schindler.pdf

It states that juergenschmidti can be distinguished from congeners by the lack of spots on the opercle and superficial part of cleithrum, which I believe is the gill plate. All of the badis in our photos have a spot on the gill plate, so that rules out juergenschmidti for me.

By the way - do you think that your badis benefit from being in a group? Yours have fantastic colour, and although they appear to be more mature, I'd be interested to know if it's also linked to stocking. I'm pretty sure dietary and parameter requirements are being met. Incidentally, what size are yours and are they still growing?

And now for some photos:

Stripy gal - definitely still growing and maturing. More active in the evening but is out and about whenever. Great fry control - if there are survivors then it's so few as to be unnoticeable in current numbers of 30-40.


















Some spotty guys too (taken right before water change, excuse the detritus). All endlers seem to be doing fine and head counts show that numbers are stable. No losses since November as far as I can tell.









And a cheeky FTS










Glass lily pipes arrived the other day, so I'll be swapping them in soon - hopefully tonight, probably in the next week.

Still plenty of algae, but it's manageable and to be expected considering tank placement. Unsure on the exact numbers of otos I have as they can never be found, but the ones I have seen have looked healthy and haven't found any remains anywhere. Might increase numbers to 9 once I know the tank can sustain them and that these have settled in fine. I can always keep the lights on for longer than recommended in winter to keep the algae growing, and perhaps higher numbers would give them the confidence to be out and about more.

I usually change 4 UK gallons (about 25%) once or twice a week but could do with doing 8 gallons instead of 4 every now and then. All parameters are where I want them - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10-20 before change, but the filter isn't picking up as much detritus off the sand as I'd like, and organic waste is probably contributing to my algae growth.

I added frogbit a couple of weeks ago and it seems to be doing fine. I still need more foreground and background plants though and REALLY need to get round to attaching the buce I've got just floating about. I also really need to find some more emergent plants too, as that was the whole point in going open top, there's just never really anythin in my lfs and I don't know where to start with them online. Any recommendations?

Slowly moving the dullest cherry shrimp into the tank to see how they cope. All seemed fine when they went in, but I haven't seen them since, not that that means anything with shrimp. My one female amano is certainly over 2 inches and built like a tank now.


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> @vvDO it's a slow morning at work and I just stumbled across this:
> 
> http://www.senckenberg.de/files/con...60-3/04_vertebrate_zoology_60-3_schindler.pdf
> 
> ...


I'm loving the tank, really adore the long and shallow look. I see you've added some nice tall plants in the back, I think it makes the tank look so much more densely planted. That's not just regular vallis is it? Is that crypt spiralis? 

That badis looks really interesting. How big is it? It seems to be quite young, maybe it will be easier to ID once it has grown a little more.

I'm glad you've had no losses since November! When do you think you'll be adding more fish? Some bottom feeders would really be nice. I know you're looking at corydoras or kuhli loaches but dwarf chain loaches might be a nice option, especially if you don't have snails you want to keep (or have snails you want to be rid of!).


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@chicken.nublet thank you, I appreciate it! It's C. Balansae, I'm really happy with how tall it's grown, although new shoots are very slow to appear. Might buy some more, but eventually I'd like a solid wall in the back. The second lily is also taking off, which helps.

She's around 3.5cm right now but is growing fast. I'm hoping I will be able to identify her, especially as there's such a size difference between species. I'd also hate to be keeping a social fish alone, but don't want to keep her with other badis and end up with hybrid offspring. It's fun watching her mature and guessing what she might be though!

Me too - I was very concerned back then, but since starting to use JBL Aquadur everything has been fine thankfully. I love the look of dwarf chain loaches and keep thinking about them actually! I've also been looking at rosy loaches and CPDs though as they're from the same locality and their requirements fit what I'm already providing. Need to get rid of 75% of these endlers first though and keep spending fish £££ on more plants (not that that's a bad thing  )


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> @chicken.nublet thank you, I appreciate it! It's C. Balansae, I'm really happy with how tall it's grown, although new shoots are very slow to appear. Might buy some more, but eventually I'd like a solid wall in the back. The second lily is also taking off, which helps.
> 
> She's around 3.5cm right now but is growing fast. I'm hoping I will be able to identify her, especially as there's such a size difference between species. I'd also hate to be keeping a social fish alone, but don't want to keep her with other badis and end up with hybrid offspring. It's fun watching her mature and guessing what she might be though!
> 
> Me too - I was very concerned back then, but since starting to use JBL Aquadur everything has been fine thankfully. I love the look of dwarf chain loaches and keep thinking about them actually! I've also been looking at rosy loaches and CPDs though as they're from the same locality and their requirements fit what I'm already providing. Need to get rid of 75% of these endlers first though and keep spending fish £££ on more plants (not that that's a bad thing  )


Ooo CPDs and rosy loaches sound like a great idea. The loaches look adorable. I've only ever seen them once before here. CPDs are gorgeous but I've never been able to keep them alive. I tried them once before and they all died out on me :frown2: probably because my water was too warm. I'm sure they'll do well in your tank though. Looking forward to more updates!

Now that you mention it, the green lily in the left does look incredible. That's not the same one as the red one you posted awhile ago is it?


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Just found a dead oto wedged in a plant. Floated once I moved it, barely decomposed with no external signs of anything except a slightly green underside(?). Tummy round and no signs of starvation. I'd guess it died Monday night or Tuesday, although I'm confused as to how the shrimp didn't get to it in that time.

Headcount done on Monday 06/05 when I moved around some hardscape to clean underneath and all 6 looked healthy then. Filter was turned off for about 20 minutes as I tried (and failed) to install the glass pipes. I broke the intake inside the tank but couldn't see any glass shards at all.

All other otos looking well, although still hiding. I never see them really eating algae, they all just hang out on/under the large chunk of wood on the right-hand side. They have full tummies though so must be eating when I'm not looking - there's certainly a vast array of algae in there for them. Endlers, badis, cory, and assorted shrimps absolutely normal.

Parameters: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrates, pH 7-7.2, gH 5-6, kH 1-2, exactly where they should be. Temp 24C, although we did have a cold snap over the last few days. The heater is more than enough for the tank though and should have been able to keep up.

Will keep an eye on everyone for a while.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Finally taking the tank in a new direction!

I sold 20-25 of the endlers the other day to a local hobbyist with large community tank - typical guppies, endlers, neons, and corys type thing. Let them go for far less than they're worth, but it seems they'll be going to a good home, which is the main thing.

A final family photo:










I did keep the best 5 males and my favourite 5 females however - the males are in the spec v shrimp tank and females in the main tank. I did try the females with the betta in the flex, but that did not work out. Thankfully managed to get them out before he did any damage, but still feel awful about it. Either way, I really love that the females have a bit of peace and quiet - I'm actually really attached to them and they deserve a break from all the males.

None of the fish shops near me have any of the plants/fish that I want, so went on a minor online shopping spree yesterday, and have ordered:
- 15x Celestial Pearl Danios
- 2x crypt balansae
- 2x crypt albida 
- 2x crypt beckettii petchii
- 1x large anubias barteri
- and some thread to finally sort out my floating buce.

CPDs will be arriving Thursday, plants should be here before then. Will be overfeeding the tank in the next few days to keep BB up, but will keep an eye on parameters of course.

And a quick photo of the badis:










Oh, and if anyone's wondering what Edinburgh's like in the Spring:


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@chicken.nublet sorry, I missed the last part of your post - no, they're two different lotuses! The green one has certainly got much larger, but the red is still doing well enough.

Had to delay the CPDs until Friday 24th as I've ended up doing an 8-day work week. It's things like this which are the main reason why I've stuck to under-stocked, low-tech tanks.

In the meantime, all my plants have arrived and have been stuck haphazardly into the tank, waiting until my day off on Tuesday to be planted. 

The C. Albida looks fantastic, can't believe it was only 2 bunches. Please excuse the clarity (or lack thereof) of the water, I'd literally just shoved it all in before the photo. If you look to the right, you can see a couple of cherry shrimps - the badis doesn't seem to see them as food (yet)










To be honest, everything was great apart from the C. Beckettii Petchii, which was tiny and half melted. I'll get photos of everything before planting on Tuesday.

The rest of the otos are fine, even the one who arrived with a deformed tail. They're still very skittish, but seem to enjoy algae wafers if I leave them at the back. That's sand on the back oto by the way, not whitespot.










I've been looking through old photos of the tank and although there has been an increase in ambient light over the last several months, there's definitely been an increase in detritus since swapping out the HOB for the canister, which I think has also been causing the algae problems. Instead of stainless steel filter tubes, I've purchased the Eheim modular spray bar and intake instead. The nodes can be twisted to face any direction, so I'm hoping an increased flow through the plants and across the sand will help decrease the amount of detritus sitting about between water changes and therefore limit algal growth.

And finally the photo I actually came here to post: my gals basking in the morning sun. Yes it's silly to have a tank in a window, but with views like this, I don't regret it yet.


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> And finally the photo I actually came here to post: my gals basking in the morning sun. Yes it's silly to have a tank in a window, but with views like this, I don't regret it yet.



That looks amazing. I think you plants appreciate the sunlight! Btw, looking forward to seeing the CPDs!


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## catz (Apr 4, 2019)

Beautiful tank!!


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## 25cube2019 (Jan 21, 2019)

Look great I like the natural look. Your top down shot look very cool


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## LadyWonkyMcJankeypants (Nov 7, 2018)

I've been lurking on your post for quite some time. I'm really enjoying the view of the old bricks as a backdrop. I've been playing around working on a few low-tech riparium type tanks and I have found this list of emergent plants very helpful https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/25-riparium-terrarium-vivarium/951834-riparium-plant-list.html

I've personally had really good luck with the following:
Purple Waffle (_Hemigraphis alternata_)
Prayer Plant (_Maranta spp._) - I've tried two color variants and they both seemed to do well as long as there was enough stem out of the water. 
Pothos - Probably the most common I see in tanks but it does amazingly well.
Wandering Jew - it can be finicky, but I have one stem in a planted bowl (no water flow) and it loves it there.
Polka Dot Plant (_Hypoestes phyllostachya_) - I've not had a lot of this in my actual tank yet, but it has done well in just a cup of water until it gets transplanted to my tank. The only thing is that it does require higher light than most of the others and will get leggy if not cut back every now and then.
Pilea “Dark Mystery”

I was actually able to find almost all of these at my local home improvement store in the indoor plant section, but I bet you can find an on-line source as well. There are a few I haven't tried because I have dogs that really enjoy eating things off the floor so I try to be cautious about what plants I keep in the house. I hope this helps!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

catz said:


> Beautiful tank!!





25cube2019 said:


> Look great I like the natural look. Your top down shot look very cool





LadyWonkyMcJankeypants said:


> Purple Waffle (_Hemigraphis alternata_)
> Prayer Plant (_Maranta spp._) - I've tried two color variants and they both seemed to do well as long as there was enough stem out of the water.
> Pothos - Probably the most common I see in tanks but it does amazingly well.
> Wandering Jew - it can be finicky, but I have one stem in a planted bowl (no water flow) and it loves it there.
> ...


Thanks everyone, especially @LadyWonkyMcJankeypants for the fab list! 

Quick FTS:










CPDs are tiny but settling in well, you can just about see a few here:










I finally swapped the horrible green tubes for a much nicer grey spray bar and intake:










Here's a photo of the tank from a different angle:










And here's my increasingly fat badis:


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I love this tank. The natural light is obviously doing well for your plants as well as your fish.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Nothing much has changed since the last post, but here's some photos...

CPDs are gaining weight and colour, have had them for 3 weeks. Pretty sure I have 14.




























Tore down the spec a couple of days ago. Had to cut out the back compartment after an endler got stuck in there. Replaced the filter with my only spare, but it was too strong and flung 3 endlers out overnight, despite the lid being on. The 2 remaining males and all cherry shrimp are now in the main tank. Most of the shrimp are transparent, but there's a few mixed ones.










Big shrimp, little shrimp (cardboard shrimp)










Keeping the right-hand side of the tank darker is the only way I ever see my otos:










Anubias Hastifolia is slowly growing some new leaves. Frogbit is also settling in well.










Some pretty ratty water lettuce from the spec. I'll probably throw most of it out, but didn't know if any shrimp were in there during the move. Maybe life with better lights and ferts will be good for it.










Still no idea what this buce is, but if the algae continues, I'm going to have to name it Bucephalandra var. Hairy










Some pics of Belinda the Badis, although I keep thinking of her as "Fatty" recently. I haven't fed any frozen food in weeks in an attempt to curb the obesity, but she seems to be living the life and eating fry, shrimp, and snails and continuing to grow more "rotund". Still praying she doesn't get too big.



















And finally, no FTS but when did this tank become such a jungle???


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Another full-tank pic just for the sake of it:










The right-hand piece of wood needs something, there's too much negative space. Suggestions more than welcome!!


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> Another full-tank pic just for the sake of it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good! Plants look like they're on steroids. The lilies especially are incredibly eye-catching.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Thank you! @chicken.nublet, I'm really impressed with how easy they are to care for!

*Badis Update* - the badis has started getting aggressive with my female endlers. One was giving birth yesterday and she was harassing it periodically, trying to get the fry. On top of that though, she's been squaring up to other females, flaring her colours, and doing some sort of dominance shake. Their behaviour has been more subdued recently because of this, and they've been hiding in groups as opposed to picking about the tank. I suppose it might be because they're the largest fish in the tank and are in "her" territory? The badis is totally fine with the CPDs, male endlers, etc. just has an issue with the females.

Here's a quick photo of her anyway, she's around 4-5cm now I'd guess:










On top of this, the betta in the 15g flex has been slowing down, spending a lot of time resting and less time patrolling/flaring. He was an adult (or near enough) when purchased from a chain store last May, so I'd hazard a guess at him being 2 years old. I think the height of the tank is causing issues as he has very long/heavy fins and has consistently bitten them. He's not got the best eyesight anymore and I noticed a very small growth at the base of his dorsal fin the other day. Basically, I think he's getting a bit old.

Here he is:










As he's too large for the Spec V (and as I had that unfortunate incident with the trapped fish -> barrier removal -> carpet surfing fish) I'm looking for a shallower tank for him. Turns out that the Dennerle 55L Scapers' tank is under £100 inc. glass lid and would fit on a well-made desk. Could do something really nice with the wood in the flex and some sort of bank, so that the betta has a solid place to rest near the surface, in addition to the swords etc. Going to try and sell this idea to the bf tonight as we don't have much space, but am hoping that the promise of dwarf frogs once the betta does go will get him to come round to the idea.

Incidentally, does anyone have any experience with ADFs?

If the betta moves into the new tank though, that means that the female endlers can have the fluval flex, the males can join their brethren at my parents' house, and these poor female endlers can finally live their lives in peace.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Just checked in again and the poor things are terrified. Going to have to separate within the next week I think.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Nice tank!. Mondo Grass is a nice plant when done the right way like you have it. Any problems with the zebra nerites and the open-top?


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@Asteroid Thanks! Really love your tank by the way, it's super clean-cut and something I'd like to emulate in my new tank. Wish the 12G longs were readily available in the UK!

I found a nerite on the floor once, months ago, but popped it back in and it was fine.

They don't tend to try to leave the water unless something is bothering them - e.g. tankmates or water parameters, but obviously there is still a risk. I've also kept helmet nerites in open-top tanks without issues though.

________________________________

Bought the Dennerle tank, lid, and desk last night, my bank account is *not* happy with me. The tank will be here within a week, but the desk is custom made and will take 4-6 weeks. Also ordered a cheap 300lph mini internal filter with spray bar, so if things continue to go south, the female endlers can be moved temporarily to the spec v. Obviously it's unfortunate that I'm having to move things around, but I'm pretty excited for this new set up!

Here's a sample photo of the desk - the one I ordered is 160cm long, 66cm wide, so will comfortably fit the tank lengthways at one end. The wood is 6cm thick and from scaffolding, and the legs are reinforced steel, identical to the stand for my main tank.










And here's the tank!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

CPDs showing minor signs of internal parasites, 50% dose of ESHA Exit today, in line with advice from family friend. Dosing tomorrow and Sunday, will see how it goes. Half dose is supposedly shrimp safe.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Thelongsnail said:


> CPDs showing minor signs of internal parasites, 50% dose of ESHA Exit today, in line with advice from family friend. Dosing tomorrow and Sunday, will see how it goes. Half dose is supposedly shrimp safe.


The concern with half doses is there is not enough concentration of active ingredient to do any good. What are the active ingredients in this medication?

Edit: I found it : Esha Exit ACTIVE INGRED:
diaminoacridine 6.3 mg, veride malachitum 0.31 mg, methylrosanilinii chloridum 0.79 mg, methylthioninii chloridum 3.98 mg ad Aqua. 
Basically its Acridine ( a dye much like the MG and MB), Malachite Green, , Meth. Blue.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@Discusluv I'm not at all well-versed in medicating issues, and have managed for the last few years to avoid medications outside of meth. blue.

We'll see how they fare, my concern is that there is no way for me to remove all shrimp and snails and the resultant ammonia spike from a full dose killing all leftover inverts will do more harm than good. 

I trust the advice as the person giving it has been keeping fish to a very high standard for over 50 years, taking part in breeding programs etc. so will give this a go and see. I'm not hugely concerned about the majority of the CPDs right now as they're maturing well and behaviour doesn't seem to have been impacted, but would obviously like to get this sorted asap.

I'd ask for other recommendations as you're very experienced in these matters, but the availability of medications in UK vs US is just so different. Really appreciate you commenting though and would apprectiate any thoughts of course 

Edit: Fairly sure that I saw an endler pass a worm earlier. Disgusting but a) shows that there is a parasite issue and b) the medication is at least somewhat working


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Good news that medicating is working.

Troubles aside, I really love the jungle-ish, natural look of your tank. It doesn't look overdone or forced in any way.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@somewhatshocked thank you! I'm not sure I know enough about the theories behind aquascaping to make things look forced haha

____________________________________________________________

Quick update while I'm here:

Summer is a very busy time for me work-wise so haven't done much outside of a big trim around mid-July and the above medication. W/Cs happening whenever I get a day off, so every 5-7 days. Have increased the amount of water changed though and all seems well.

Moved the heater from the left-hand side to the right side as the number of plants was starting to cause warm spots.

The badis hasn't been bothering anyone recently, but I'm still keeping an eye on things.

Turns out that I do in fact have at least 4 otos, see if you can spot them below (I'd like to call this "Spoto the oto")










Shrimp population is bouncing back (for now.) No idea how many are in the tank now, but I think I lost 50% of those thrown in after hastily emptying the Spec V. Have seen a reasonable number of berried females and the odd shrimplet here and there though, so who knows. Colours include black and brown (as below), blue, red, red/carbon rili and clear/wild. Hopefully won't lose the lot during this medication, but I have to admit that the fish are the priority.










And a "creative" shot I took the other evening after a drink (or three)


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Not the best update, but I'm a big believer in updating journals when things go wrong as well as well, well.

Euthanised a CPD last night, the only one to have not improved since treating the tank. Symptoms started as what looked like a missing scale and so I gave the fish the benefit of the doubt, did an extra water change, and did a second round of slightly stronger dosing. Wound continued to be minor until suddenly progressing over 48 hours, and the fish began showing signs of stress.

Photo shortly before euthanasia:









No other fish showing any symptoms, and no fuzz, parasites, or discoloration were around the hole. It's got me paranoid though, so keeping a close eye.

Parameters:
0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, ~5 Nitrate (Have been doing larger water changes, haven't been dosing ferts during the issues, and tank is an understocked jungle right now. Shook the sh*t out of the nitrate test & bottle)
pH between 6.8 and 7, 2dkH, 4-5dgH, temp 24C.

All other CPDs showing natural behaviour, including the beginning of what looks like spawning. Might separate some to breed in the 5g after all this flat moving is done and if all is well.










In happier news, look at the difference in my badis! Very very attached, can't believe how big she's grown.

Pic taken 22nd Feb:









And pic taken 8th August:









P.S I know the tank is an algae farm, just really don't have time to be dealing with algae right now. The shrimp seem to enjoy it at least.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Thelongsnail said:


> Not the best update, but I'm a big believer in updating journals when things go wrong as well as well, well.
> 
> Euthanised a CPD last night, the only one to have not improved since treating the tank. Symptoms started as what looked like a missing scale and so I gave the fish the benefit of the doubt, did an extra water change, and did a second round of slightly stronger dosing. Wound continued to be minor until suddenly progressing over 48 hours, and the fish began showing signs of stress.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the update!
I love your tank--- it is one of my favorites on the forum because of its natural ( as opposed to stylized) beauty. I enjoy it very much to see pictures!


Speaking of scale injuries--- I had a gorgeous male African tetra, a _hemigammopetersius pulcher, _that got a scale injury while sparring with subordinate males. With these fish the alpha male will get this bright copper colored area around its tail. It is really something to behold! All subordinate males will have a much duller ( more subdued) copper color; and the female, in this same area, has a light, barely there golden-yellow. 

Anyways, I noticed a couple damaged scales, but the male was still eating and not at all expressing internal bacterial issues as a result. Next day, looked at it and had been covered over with fungus ( bacteria). Scooped him out and put in quarantine and added Paraguard for benefit of acriflavine ( and other antibacterial/anti fungal proprieties. By evening began to fade, and by next morning dead. It was very fast. From external to septic. It was strange to me because the normal signs of whether so serious that antibiotics were needed were not there. If I would have known had become septic would have used kanamycin. But... 

This fish was worth saving because was a wild-caught, very rare African tetra. 

Sometimes these illnesses defy logic. 



Next day, another subordinate male made himself alpha of the group and his formerly subdued copper tail became just as brilliant as the one that had died. 

:smile2:
*
*


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Update: Things Are Continuing To Go Wrong.

All CPDs have been removed from the tank after another started to show strange symptoms: this time, a lesion that gradually go larger until the entire area pineconed. Eventually the fish passed; I would have euthanised but a) it wasn't being bothered by the others, and b) I needed to know if it would rupture. It didn't rupture, but I could still possibly believe that it was related to the last CPD I euthanised.

Enter the world's worst diagnostic photo:










That's not going to help, but the issue was identical to the photos found in this thread here:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/white-lesion-on-celestial-pearl-danio.413084/

I've found several other threads on the net with identical issues and nobody seems to know what it is. Thankfully, it appears to be species-specific at least. 

I finally got to do a proper headcount of the CPDs upon removal and only had 11, 10 now that I've lost the one with the lesion. They're in the dennerle tank going through at least 1 course of strong anti-parasitic treatment. All the others seem to be fine so far.

Here's the tank on my lovely new (and huge!) desk - for reference, than tank is 15 US gallons and lengthways. Ignore the computer, that's not mine.










Thankfully everyone else in the main tank is doing well, and I finally had the chance to have a trim the other day. Wish I'd got a before-shot, but the algae was far too embarrassing. Here's the after-shot anyway


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> Update: Things Are Continuing To Go Wrong.
> 
> All CPDs have been removed from the tank after another started to show strange symptoms: this time, a lesion that gradually go larger until the entire area pineconed. Eventually the fish passed; I would have euthanised but a) it wasn't being bothered by the others, and b) I needed to know if it would rupture. It didn't rupture, but I could still possibly believe that it was related to the last CPD I euthanised.
> 
> ...


The tank looks beautiful and lush!

Sorry to hear about the CPDs. I used to have some but never had any luck with them and I lost them one by one, although for me I think it was a temperature issue since I don't have a chiller on my tank.

How warm and hard is your water? I think they prefer cooler temperatures and moderately hard water. You did mention previously that their requirements match your water though... Could these strange marks be injuries from fights or something?


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@chicken.nublet temp is 24C, water cooling isn't so much of an issue over here! pH is just under 7, kH 2, gH 6, so on the lower bounds but definitely within parameters.

Just came home to find that I've lost my largest male at some point today, main symptom was a sort of stick/lump coming out from under the jaw. There was a red patch on one side, but I think the poor thing had got stuck to the filter when it was weak. It had been fine last night when I checked before bed. So done with these. Water change once they're done eating and then another round of dewormer.

I think I'm just going to keep the CPDs in the dennerle tank and move the badis, cory & some cherry shrimp over and gradually drop the temp to ~22C. My mum has requested the rest of the endlers, which l'm fine with as the local tap water down south is better suited to them anyway and I'm keeping them in softer water than they'd like even with Aquadur added.

This will leave me with a 25 US gallon tank with nothing but otos, snails, and shrimp in. Does anyone have any suggestions on something that will suit the tank? I just want something for soft-ish water (although I can adapt that to the fish), that doesn't often jump, temp around 25C, and HARDY. I'm so done with not being able to keep the simplest things alive when there's people out there with 10 gallon no-water change "ecosystem" tanks filled with tiger barbs, malawis, and shovelnoses or whatever.


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> @chicken.nublet temp is 24C, water cooling isn't so much of an issue over here! pH is just under 7, kH 2, gH 6, so on the lower bounds but definitely within parameters.
> 
> Just came home to find that I've lost my largest male at some point today, main symptom was a sort of stick/lump coming out from under the jaw. There was a red patch on one side, but I think the poor thing had got stuck to the filter when it was weak. It had been fine last night when I checked before bed. So done with these. Water change once they're done eating and then another round of dewormer.
> 
> ...


Don't be too hard on yourself, I had a really [censored][censored][censored][censored] time with CPDs myself. Do you have any plans with the Dennerle tank after the next round of meds? 

As for new stock, I think a big group of glowlight danios will look stunning in your absolutely gorgeous tank. From what I've seen they are incredibly active so dunno if they might add too much movement in your tank. Not too sure about jumping. Goldring danios are another beautiful little fish that you could consider. 

Since your tank is fairly big maybe you could try some of the larger bodied tetras? I think lemon tetras would look amazing swimming among those plants. 

I haven't had any experience keeping what I suggested but I think they should be fairly hardy.

Good luck with finding something you like for the 25 and hope you don't lose your remaining CPDs!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

i agree with @chicken.nublet about the CPDs. I never buy them anymore since the stock in LFS always looks bad. Don't know if you want something more exotic, but Harlequin Rasboras have always been bullet proof for me and they school nicely. Our water is very similar.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@chicken.nublet @Asteroid thanks for the suggestions and commiserations, much appreciated  The danios are known jumpers, but I'm thinking of changing up the scape and getting a lid made anyway. I've also been thinking about harlequins, maybe with honey gouramis or something similarly nice 
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

I wrote out a big post about changes in the tanks, but the website timed out and lost it. Not writing it out again but the summary is as follow:

- Slowly tearing apart bits of the main tank for the fluval flex and dennerle tank. The main tank is just a total algae trap, so I may as well move towards a scape/stocking that appreciates it.
- Started work on the flex yesterday and it's looking much better. The badis, surviving CPDs, and otos will be moved here.
- The betta will be moved from the flex to the dennerle tank. It will have a significantly lower water line, which I think will be appreciated by the betta. Plans include heavy planting with mainly crypts, and emergent plants grown on wood under the filter stream - similar to my current flex set up.
- Once the endlers go down to my parents', the tank will be empty and ready for a new project. Current ideas range from a shoal of pygmy puffers (unlikely), to a general community (more likely), or one of various ideas on a temperate Taiwanese biotope (most likely). Although I've put a lot of thought into these plans, they're on hold for a bit just now.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Quick update:

All 3 tanks are in a “transitionary period” (e.g. they’re unfinished and terrible) right now BUT I have some good news.

My flatmate very kindly “saved” some endler fry by putting them into the dennerle tank, which was actually intended for the betta. I decided not to worry and to just let the endlers grow out for a month and get the scape to my liking during that time.

But today some more titchy tiny fry have appeared! Process of elimination would imply that they’re CPDs and they match photos of young fry I’ve seen previously. Hoping to raise at least a few and pad out my adult CPD group, as I’m now down to 6. Hoping that this is a bit of a turning point in all of this...


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Just a hello to say that the tanks are still kicking!

The main tank is just being used to grow plants out right now, ready for tank re-jigging in the new year. It now features a horrible coconut hut, seen below:










I now have a total of 4 adult CPDs, having lost one as recently as a fortnight ago. Identical symptoms to those previously listed and I can't seem to find a trigger for it. BUT 5 of the danio fry have survived and are now around 1-1.5cm long. We'll see if they suffer the same issues as the original group.

The grow-out tank is a total state but the crypts are doing well floating. I also purchased some mystery emergent plants; anyone have an ID?










Incidentally, I purchased a group of 3 "captive-bred amanos" from a local chain store recently. I'm very skeptical about them being true amanos, but the shop also had some of the first UK-bred Spotted Congo puffers (Tetraodon Shoutedeni) so who knows. Either way, they're showing some interesting colouring:










The shrimps were quite blue at time of purchase and are currently kept in a low-light 15G, at 26C, pH 7, gH 6-7. I'm wondering if the colours are down to selective breeding, or whether they're down to environmental factors such as light/temp/avoiding predation from the betta. I've heard that it can also be down to diet, but the colour has deepened since purchase rather than faded.

Tank here - you may recognise the left-hand piece of wood/fern from the main tank. The rampant hair algae disappeared after moving to lower light 










All I need to do now is wait for the danio fry to grow out so that I can re-scape all three tanks. What is this hobby though, if not a lesson in a patience? 0:grin2:


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## TacitBlues (Aug 4, 2016)

Glad to see it's still going, sad about the danios though. Hope your fry do well!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

The endlers were moved down South last week - all doing well bar one female.

Here they are in the new tank:










More tank updates to come, just waiting for everything to settle. I think I'll make separate journals for each tank


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Had a good read through your thread tonight - as many before me has mentioned, really like your natural jungle but the thing that stands out the most to me is your benches! They all look so great with sturdy reclaimed wood which adds to the natural feeling of your aquariums. Really interesting to see that you've kept several species that I'm contemplating for my own tank. What's the status of the tanks now that almost 2 months have passed since last update?


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@Hujeta Hello, just saw this post!

The bench and desk were sourced from etsy, both custom made from reclaimed scaffolding wood and steel. Not cheap, but certainly sturdy enough for the weight and will last years (if not decades!)

Which fish are you interested in? If it's the CPDs, I'd really recommend trying to find a local breeder as the imports are seemingly coming with more and more problems. That said, of the 5 I accidentally bred, 4 are fairly high-quality and 2 are really robust fish.

The tanks are doing well enough but things are super hectic right now as I'm trying to balance property purchasing/subsequent move/volunteering/full-time work lol! Just focusing on getting the plants as robust as possible to minimise damage while moving them. Slowly tearing down the fluval flex and adding inhabitants to the "big" tank, but the baby cherry shrimp are proving hard to catch and I have about 40 individual vallis plants that nobody will take off my hands!

Unfortunately can't seem to get google pics to load just now, but will try and take some up-to-date photos and get them uploaded over the next few days.

Current stock is:
-4x honey gourami (need to up this to 7+ I think, they're not showing natural behaviours just yet and aggression is a bit of an issue)
-1x badis badis
-9x celestial pearl danio
-4x oto
-9(??) amano/false amano
-??????? cherry shrimp
-4??? pygmy cory

And then the dennerle tank just has my very geriatric betta, Skeletor.

What I'd like to do is get a second dennerle tank for the best of the cherry shrimp, the danios, and the corys (increasing number to 10ish) and run it at lower temps. Ideally with stands that match the big tank stand. Fingers crossed I can persuade my bf that my priorities are absolutely spot on and we absolutely need all this for the new place 0


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Horrendous photo quality, algae, filter tubes, and watermarks on the front of the glass, but here we go :grin2: 

FTS:










Mid-section:










Right-hand side:










3 of the 4 gouramis:










Berried "Amano" shrimp:










The juvenile CPDs seem to be settling in well, although one of the larger ones has had most of its tail nibbled. This happened with the weaker of the bunch when it was just the juveniles being kept together, I'll keep an eye but I'd imagine it's just down to the hierarchy being restructured. 

Already did a full list of fauna in the last post, so here's the flora. Only other changes to tank are swapping out the wood for some smaller pieces.
-C. Balansae (back-mid)
-C. beckettii petchii (mixed-mid)
-C. parva (mixed-mid)
-C. albida (mixed-mid)
-C. wendtii (mid-back)
-Other, unidentified cryptocorynes I've picked up along the way
-Marsh pennywort/Hydrocotlyte verticillata (mid-front)
-Amazon sword
-Amazon sword "Ocelot red"
-Anubias coffeefolia
-Anubias nana (somewhere)
-Unknown buce
-Frogbit
-There's some lilies in the somewhere, but they never recovered after being moved. Will put in root tabs after the move and see if they bounce back, they're not expensive if not though, and were my favourite plant in that tank.

And I managed to rip out ALL the vallis!!!! There's about 60 plants ranging from 4" to 36", so I'm hoping to trade them for some crypts/shrimp/cold, hard cash.

Lots I want to do with this tank, the dennerle tank (and the future second dennerle) but no time just yet. Unfortunately my breeding colony of around 30-50 orange sakura cherries in the fluval flex had a total population crash, literally just a tank full of bodies. Managed to net out 2 adults and there's 2 adults and a few babies still in there, but I've clearly neglected that tank so am cutting down to two tanks for the time being.

We're viewing a flat that I've really fallen in love with on Sunday - on top of having its own front door and garden, it has the perfect box room for a fish room. Fingers crossed!


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Thelongsnail said:


> @Hujeta Hello, just saw this post!
> 
> The bench and desk were sourced from etsy, both custom made from reclaimed scaffolding wood and steel. Not cheap, but certainly sturdy enough for the weight and will last years (if not decades!)
> 
> ...



It's easy for life to be busy so it's good to find something to come back to, to unwind and slow down for a little while. I've used photography for that before, now I'm getting back into aquatics. I'm more or less settled for getting pygmy cories and some smaller oto's along with some shrimp, potentially also the badis badis and CPD as well. We'll see about the CPD though, potentially I'll get a few bigger fish that's gonna eat them but nothing's set in stone yet. I really like them for their outstanding looks and the sense of scale they bring, quite obvious in your second photo below:




Thelongsnail said:


> Mid-section:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's clear that you got the priorities straight for your new home! :icon_mrgr


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Still busy busy busy, but we have a flat! Not the one with the fish room unfortunately, but still somewhere more permanent and with lots more space (and no landlord to evict me if they ever catch wind of my tanks!)

We should be getting the keys at the end of April, so things are still just ticking over in the tanks for now, not much point making too many changes really.

That said, here's another mid-section photo:










I'd like to split out the CPDs, pygmy corys, and badis into their own slightly cooler-temp tank when we move, but will have to see how funds are doing.

If you've got any fun ideas for the "big" tank though, let me know! Really looking forward to having the time to do projects again.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Strange times just now. It turns out that I'm a "key worker," so I may be away from my tanks for a couple of weeks. My boyfriend will be staying home, so he'll have instructions on how to maintain them and I know he'll do his best.

Big water change and trim the other day in preparation, so here's some pics from the night before, during, and after:

Close up of the night before:









BIG algae scrub and attempt at duckweed management:









Planting always seems so much more dense during water changes:









And a little cloudy, but clean and algae free (by my standards):









And just because I like to show when things go wrong too, check out this crypt melt in my betta tank! Topped it up in a bit of a rush and the temperature wasn't quite matched:









The emergent plants are still filling in though:









And here he is: Skeletor in all his diamond-eyed, self-trimmed glory. I don't often share pics due to his horrendous fins and subsequent cries of fin rot/neglect/abuse, but I promise this isn't the case.









So this is me signing off on the tankfor a little while: hopefully I'll be back soon with grand new projects, but who knows when we'll move now and how my tanks will be if/when I have to leave them for a while. I'm glad I got this photo when I did; the red lights from the club opposite our flat have been turned off for a while now and who knows if/when they'll be back. The tank is much less algae-ridden now, with trimmed plants and clean filter tubes, but this version of the tank feels much more like mine.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

That looks amazing. You have tons of plants to keep the fish healthy.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Looks really good! Very natural and like a flooded piece of tropical nature


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@Streetwise @andrewss Thank you both very much! Much appreciated


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The tank is a triumph! One of my favorites! 

On another note-- take care of yourself and thank you for doing your part as an "essential worker" during this difficult time.
We are all grateful to you.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@Discusluv as is your geo tank for me!

Just to be clear, I work in student accommodation so although I'm necessary for health and safety reasons, student support etc. I'm not working in healthcare or anything like that, so really no thanks needed. I hope you're staying safe too!


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Tank is gorgeous, really like that last FTS. I've tried similar compositions before where it's just looked like I dropped a pile of plants and stuff in it (horrible to be frank) but you made it come together in a nice natural and unartificial way. Cudos!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Further disaster has struck! (When isn't it striking to be honest?)

My honey gouramis have all hit maturity at once and what originally appeared to be 4 females with rounded dorsal fins became 4 very definite males. Pre-pandemic, I was assured that I could swap them out at the shop if that became the case but that's obviously not possible just now.

Already had to euthanise one yesterday - he wasn't looking well so I started setting up the fluval flex to move him over. In the hour or so that took, he started with dropsy so it wasn't fair to keep him alive. 

The other 3 are certainly sparring so I have the fluval flex still set up in case things take a further turn. Keeping a very close eye and trying to rearrange what I can in the tank at least every couple of days to stop territories establishing, but trying to minimise stress to other fish - mainly the badis. Worst comes to the worst, I still have my titchy 5G so could theoretically split all 3 up, but I wouldn't feel great about keeping a gourami in that unless I absolutely have to.

On a positive note, nothing's happened with work just yet so I get to live at home for the time being :smile2: I also wanted to try out some new scapes in the tank but was hesitant due to the upcoming move, but can give them a bit of a go now that I'm having to move things anyway. Will upload photos of anything that is either good enough to make the cut or terrible enough to be a giggle :grin2:


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Sorry about the gourami and the battling teenagers! Hope it sorts itself out!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Well I said I'd post photos of my tank looking a bit silly with all the reshuffling, so here we go: 










I've wedged bits of wood vertically everywhere and ripped out the vallis to try and make some more defined territory lines. It seems to have worked so far - the 3 gouramis are still sparring on occasion but none are showing any injuries. Just want to get them through this lockdown so I can swap them - they're decent enough looking fish so shouldn't be a problem rehoming them if the LFS does backtrack on their original offer. 

Interestingly, I've seen the Badis more since moving things around like that. She seems to appreciate the cover, so I'll take that into account when I settle on a more permanent (and more aesthetically pleasing!) set up.

I also moved the filter spray bar to the back of the tank instead of left-hand side. Not sure if I prefer it, but it means that the floating plants are all over the tank, rather than pushed to the right. It's helped a little with some of the dead spots I was getting in the water flow too.

Check out that dwarf lotus on the left though - I've got a bunch of titchy ones around the tank from the original two large ones I had. Hadn't put in root tabs as the fully grown plants are a pain to transport and thought we'd be moving, but caved and popped one in about a month ago. It must be 10x the size now! Close up below with amano for scale:










Fairly certain I lost one of the adult female CPDs to whatever was causing the weird lesions a while back. Gave it the benefit of the doubt but should really have euthanised and removed as it's now disappeared and could well have spread the issues if the other danios have eaten it. With 9 large amano shrimp, ??? cherry shrimp, and ???????????? trumpet snails though, it's unsurprising that I didn't find it. Keeping a close eye as much as I can, but schedule is still all over the place just now.

Oh and I found some photos of the very first fish I ever bought myself! She was called Fish and I loved her to bits. $100NTD (about £2 at the time) and from a cup in a plant market.


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## Sarpijk (Aug 17, 2015)

Hi, I read the whole thread today! Very interesting stuff! I feel you have a natural eye in creating a beautiful jungle look but on the other hand you have an affinity for all almost any fussy fish species there is. I have kept pygmy corys and cpds ( in fact I still do) and I know from experience that they are both delicate and casualties are to be expected especially when you start with bad stock at the LFS. 

The only way to be successful is to start with quality fish and be able to provide live food. Grindal worms culture is easy and anyone can do it. Fish thrive on live food. 

Sometimes you one has to accept and stick to what's really working for them. You could stock with hardy fish like White cloud mountain minnows which are cheap as chips and extremely underrated! Hardy, lively and beautiful. It is often overlooked at the fish store but in a home aquarium and with proper care they transform completely.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

@Sarpijk Thank you! The CPDs are well on the whole and the juveniles are coming on really nicely. Once we do eventually move, I'd like to breed some more but don't fancy moving tiny fry if we are able to move at short notice. Just can't work out what these lesions are or what's triggering them, especially as it appears to be species-specific. I won't be buying anymore, but I wouldn't consider them to "not be working" as I've lost one after 6 months of no issues and none of the juveniles have shown any issues.

Live cultures are another one that's waiting until we move. I had a "daphnia jar" a few years back that was handy, but just don't have the space in the current flat. It's actually the reason why I added all the cherry shrimp though, they're a nice addition in general, but provide a constant live food source for the badis, along with smaller snails.

I did think about minnows a while back, they're beautiful fish! Their preferred temps are a bit low for my cryptocorynes though as far as I'm aware, and those make up the majority of my plants. I'd like another larger tank (again after we move) that I can have a bit warmer and then run this tank a bit cooler for the badis, CPDs, cherries, and corys, so if the CPDs do dwindle over the coming years then minnows will be right up there on my list of replacements  They were also top on my list for a loose Taiwanese biotope (they've been introduced to some areas of Taiwan) - do you happen to know if they're jumpers?


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## Sarpijk (Aug 17, 2015)

Hi, I' ve been keeping White cloud mountain minnows and crypts for more than 8 years. They work great together, I never had any problem with crypts and unheated tanks!

Not sure if it's allowed but here's a link to my setup. 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=58521&share_type=t&link_source=app


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Not much to update but here's a pic of the gourami I'll be keeping once I can rehome the other two:










I also really enjoy spotting the shrimp that have clearly been bred within the tank. Anything bright is seemingly eaten before reaching adulthood - I've spotted juveniles that are red/carbon rilis, red, and blue-ish, but only the black and wild-type offspring survive. Here's one below:


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> Not much to update but here's a pic of the gourami I'll be keeping once I can rehome the other two:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love honey gouramis, the one you're keeping looks fantastic. It's a shame they're fighting, would be nice if you could keep all three.

I'm hoping to pick up some carbon rili or similar neocaridina shrimp for my cube because I kind of figure that since they aren't as striking as your usual cherry reds and yellows they would have a better chance of not being killed by my sparkling gourami murder machines and I think I've found just a little evidence of my theory in your post today hahaha.


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

This is one of my favorite tanks here. I really love the natural, un-staged look. I am also impressed at your success without CO2.

One quick question. What are you using for substrate? Basic sand? Any amendment?

Thanks!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Thank you both for your lovely comments! 
@chicken.nublet I love any kind of rili, I did have a blue and red rili shrimp from my original group of culls that was one of my faves, but it's ...disappeared now that the badis is larger.
@mourip thanks so much! I think it helps that the tank is so shallow, although this does lead to some pretty obscene algae when left to its devices. It also really helps that I only keep low-demanding plants - no stems in sight!

I just use basic sand with root tabs. I'm sure an aquasoil capped with sand would give better results, but it's something I'd like to try in a fishless tank first I think as I understand some products can leach ammonia etc. for a while when disturbed. I also can't get my head around the kH depletion side of it, and how the pH stays stable at 0dkH?!

There were a couple of photos I wanted to upload, but the site I use to embed them seems to be down just now. Will give it a go soon and edit this post


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Never uploaded a photo of the full tank and window here. Here we go:


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Thelongsnail said:


> Never uploaded a photo of the full tank and window here. Here we go:


Lovely shot


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

I did a thing - 





















The move is back on so it's looking positive for a larger tank. I think I'll move that wood & epiphytes into it, maybe a blackwater tank with botanicals. Excuse the algae, I'm busy (as always, it seems)

ETA: I preferred the tank before but fell in love with this wood - it was £20 for a 2.5ft log so that helped. I'd really like it on a slope (been wanting to try one for a while) with smooth stones and a blackwater setup. Never used to like cardinals but they've been on my mind recently, maybe with hatchetfish (size allowing), corydoras sterbai, and dwarf cichlids. Need the get the tank mature first, might fishless cycle and then run with the CPDs for breeding, invest in some rosy loaches for this tank, and then move the CPDs back once the tank has run with fish post-fishless cycle for a while and/or I have enough CPDs. I'm thinking of getting a 4-5ft stand custom made in the same style as the coffee table used now, with space on the top for a 4-5x2x2 ft and possibly a shelf in the bottom for this tank.


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## [email protected] (Jul 19, 2020)

nice shot!


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Some good updates here! Really nice to see how the tank fits in the environment, and in this case it sits really well in front of that window, and that log sure looks good! It's placement is something I wouldn't have thought to try myself but it works really well. Regarding cardinals, a while back at LFS I saw wild caught neon tetras (or green tetras?) - they were really electric blue and think they would look amazing, especially in a blackwater. Neons doesn't have to be daft inbred starter fish! I also kept glow light tetra's in blackwater before and that was a nice mix too, albeit a bit more subdued but goes nicely with the brown shades of the blackwater.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

It's been a while. The "big" tank is currently empty and the plants and inhabitants moved from a holding tank to a 17G cube on 11th October:

Flora:
Assorted crypts
Bolbitis fern x2
Java fern
Anubias coffeefolia
Anubias barteri
Anubias nana
Unknown buce
A few other bits and bobs

Fauna:
Badis badis
Ember tetras
a few CPDs
Otos
Pygmy Corys
?? cherry shrimp
7ish amanos
Nerite snails
Whatever ramshorns haven't been eaten by the badis - a few weeks ago, she ate 2 large ramshorns (that I actually paid for?!) within 48 hours of adding. Podgy little sod.

Params:
60% WC weekly
Buffered to pH 7, kH 2, gH 5.
10ml TNC ferts weekly
Running the Eheim Ecco Pro 300 - the tank's moved to the bedroom and this filter is quiet as anything, 10/10 would recommend the brand, need to get the 100 really

The big tank is empty, as in the dennerle 55L. The fluval flex is half full of water and plants and has been since September. My lovely bog wood has been in a damp bin bag since September and I'm genuinely afraid to open it. Simply put, life's got in the way.

Next plans (subject to actually getting all the DIY done on the flat): 

- get lids cut for the tanks; saying goodbye rimless tanks, but hopefully hello to Ragdolls
- set up "big" tank (subject to aforementioned DIY) as the blackwater/Taiwanese biotope/puffer tank/EZ PZ big betta tank of my dream
- work out what on earth is wrong with my remaining 3 CPDs, cure it, and breed some more

All good fun!

My image embedding site has died while I've been gone, so here's a cheeky thumbnail. I'm happy with it for an easy-ish, low input-ish tank :


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