# Greenhouse Breeding Tanks Algae



## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

Bumpity bumpity bumperz...


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

25 guppies in a 13 gallon tank with no filter or water changes? The will die every time.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

livingword26 said:


> 25 guppies in a 13 gallon tank with no filter or water changes? The will die every time.



It's the truth. Top offs only concentrate the pollutants already in the water. The browning/yellowing is just from bacterial blooms/ organic waste. Plants will not rectify the problem.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

livingword26 said:


> 25 guppies in a 13 gallon tank with no filter or water changes? The will die every time.


They were feeder guppies, about 1/2" each. I was expecting most of them to die, and it was $5 for all 25 together. I'm probably going to end up getting maybe 10 more just to test the temperature for fancy guppies, which I will add one male and one female -- really nice ones.



Jeffww said:


> It's the truth. Top offs only concentrate the pollutants already in the water. The browning/yellowing is just from bacterial blooms/ organic waste. Plants will not rectify the problem.


If the pollutants are already in the water and the water level drops, the pollutant level goes up... correct. But when you TO with RO/DI (few dissolved solids), the pollutant level goes back down. It doesn't concentrate the pollutants in the tank by adding TO water. :hihi:

Will the browning/yellowing from bacterial blooms/organic waste eventually ware off for the water to go back to a clear color, or will I need to do water changes? If so, I suppose I could go through the trouble of monthly water changes... :flick:


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## aweeby (Oct 1, 2011)

Uh, regardless of how little they may cost, there's no excuse to kill them off inadvertently. That's just cruel. If you don't have time for these tanks, then don't buy them in the first place. And if you don't have time to do water changes, at least buy a filter. This is pretty elementary stuff here. Top offs, RO or otherwise, may not 'concentrate' things persay, but the point I think he's trying to make is that you aren't removing any crap. It's just building up to the point where it's deadly. There's no denying the fact that you are overstocked and underfiltered.

Buying more fish, CUC or otherwise, isn't going to solve your problem. You'll just make it worse. Spend the money on a filter. Even a tiny one would be better than nothing. I'm sure you can shell out 10$ for a cheapo walmart filter or something. If you can't provide minimum care, then you honestly should not be doing this.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> If the pollutants are already in the water and the water level drops, the pollutant level goes up... correct. But when you TO with RO/DI (few dissolved solids), the pollutant level goes back down. It doesn't concentrate the pollutants in the tank by adding TO water. :hihi:


First, if all your fished died and you have algae issues, it's not good to assume you are right. Secondly, look up "old tank syndrome"


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

aweeby said:


> Uh, regardless of how little they may cost, there's no excuse to kill them off inadvertently. That's just cruel. If you don't have time for these tanks, then don't buy them in the first place. And if you don't have time to do water changes, at least buy a filter. This is pretty elementary stuff here. Top offs, RO or otherwise, may not 'concentrate' things persay, but the point I think he's trying to make is that you aren't removing any crap. It's just building up to the point where it's deadly. There's no denying the fact that you are overstocked and underfiltered.
> 
> Buying more fish, CUC or otherwise, isn't going to solve your problem. You'll just make it worse. Spend the money on a filter. Even a tiny one would be better than nothing. I'm sure you can shell out 10$ for a cheapo walmart filter or something. If you can't provide minimum care, then you honestly should not be doing this.


The greenhouse has no electricity as of now, and I plan to add filters and possibly heaters once I get electricity out there! The feeders guppies were JUST to test the waters, literally. I figured out that I can't put any tropical fish out there as of right now. I'm not being unserious about this stuff, it's just that this is a greenhouse for plants, not breeding fish, and that is where the majority of my money is going. I'm trying my best to sustain a healthy environment for the fish, which I'm trying to get going with your help right now.

I just put four containers of water in my greenhouse to raise the humidity and I want to breed coldwater fish out there now, which I am going to do with pygmy sunfish, killifish and white cloud mountain minnows. I just set them up with plants like a week ago.

I can most certainly provide minimum care, and I have for three saltwater tanks for four years almost. I have three pairs of clowns, one spawning and another getting ready to spawn. Why else would I drop $200 on a pair of designer fish? :tongue:



talontsiawd said:


> First, if all your fished died and you have algae issues, it's not good to assume you are right. Secondly, look up "old tank syndrome"


The tank was set up for two weeks with just water and no plants until I put the feeder guppies in. The water temperature was 50F and they came from 80F, it wasn't the tank that killed them because I know they're the hardiest fish on earth. They were feeders and they would have suffered a gruesome death anyways. :icon_evil

I figured out a way to tremendously raise the water temperature, which was keeping the lid on. It builds up heat into the 70s during the day and falls into the 60s at night, which should sustain the cooler water tropicals, which I'm actually not going to keep. This is during the winter though... In the summer, it will be 80s and 70s. 

*Now back to the point of this thread, can somebody please help me pick out a CUC that will be okay in 60F waters?* :help:


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> The greenhouse has no electricity as of now, and I plan to add filters and possibly heaters once I get electricity out there! The feeders guppies were JUST to test the waters, literally. I figured out that I can't put any tropical fish out there as of right now. I'm not being unserious about this stuff, it's just that this is a greenhouse for plants, not breeding fish, and that is where the majority of my money is going. I'm trying my best to sustain a healthy environment for the fish, which I'm trying to get going with your help right now.
> 
> I just put four containers of water in my greenhouse to raise the humidity and I want to breed coldwater fish out there now, which I am going to do with pygmy sunfish, killifish and white cloud mountain minnows. I just set them up with plants like a week ago.
> 
> ...


Not going to work. NO filter, no oxygen in tank, stagnant water. Even if the fish could make the change from tropical temps to 60 degree temps, they would die in a minimal amount of time due to oxygen starvation and ammoinia poisoning. Adding a lid to raise the temperature will only make this process worse. This will not work without a filter and proper temps.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> The tank was set up for two weeks with just water and no plants until I put the feeder guppies in. The water temperature was 50F and they came from 80F, it wasn't the tank that killed them because I know they're the hardiest fish on earth. They were feeders and they would have suffered a gruesome death anyways.


If the tank didn't kill them, what do you think did?


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> They were feeder guppies, about 1/2" each. I was expecting most of them to die, and it was $5 for all 25 together. I'm probably going to end up getting maybe 10 more just to test the temperature for fancy guppies, which I will add one male and one female -- really nice ones.


YOu are not going to get much compassion here for killing fish to test theories. There are basic minimal things that have to be done for any give kind of fish, they need oxygen, food, a given temperature range for each type of fish, and clean water, What you are doing deprives them of the oxygen, heat, and the clean water. It will not work without a filter of some kind, and some kind of water change schedule.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> The tank was set up for two weeks with just water and no plants until I put the feeder guppies in. The water temperature was 50F and they came from 80F, it wasn't the tank that killed them because I know they're the hardiest fish on earth. They were feeders and they would have suffered a gruesome death anyways. :icon_evil


I was not implying you had old tank syndrome, I was saying that what you are saying is incorrect about topping off and that describes it.


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## aweeby (Oct 1, 2011)

nb I said INADVERTENTLY. If they were fed to a larger fish, that's justifiable. There's a reason why you'd do that. If you've kept any sort of tank, you must know that throwing 25 fish in 13 gallons of water with no filter or air is going to be fatal. You do not need to prove it, there was no reason to do it. What needed to be tested here? Wait until you get electricity if you must 'test the waters'. 

Without clean water and tanks bigger than 13g, breeding probably not going to work so great for you. In any case, wait until you're hooked up to the grid before you add more fish.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

CUC = ?? Cucumber is the only thing that comes to mind...

IDK ANY fish that's going to do well in an uncycled, unfiltered tank. Unless you plan on doing daily 100% water changes to keep the nitrogenous wastes in check? Or just have one or two small fish per tank, with lots of live plants.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

Gonna go to the pet store tonight and buy 50 feeder guppies just to test my 13.5g tank. :hihi:

Okay, I screwed up... But seriously, HOW DO YOU SUPPOSE A POND WORKS? I had a pond in my yard that was stagnant with at least 25 full sized fancy guppies in there and they survived until I took up the pond.

CUC = clean up crew. *CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE JUST INFORM ME ON WHAT KIND OF FREAKING ANIMALS I NEED IN A CLEAN UP CREW?*

And you didn't read the part where I said ONCE I GET ELECTRICITY OUT THERE, THERE WILL BE FILTERS AND HEATERS?! 

Didn't come here just to get flamed, I came to get help. Y'all are worse than 4chan.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

You do not need a clean up crew. It isn't going to fix the problem. It will just add to the waste load and cause more problems. 

No one is flaming, but we're not going to give bad advice just because that is what you want to hear.

Ponds don't have nearly the problems small aquariums do. A glass box in a greenhouse fluctuates in temps drastically. It is likely algae caused by sunlight. NOt a lot you can do about that but shade the tank.


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## CookieM (Feb 7, 2012)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> Gonna go to the pet store tonight and buy 50 feeder guppies just to test my 13.5g tank. :hihi:
> 
> Okay, I screwed up... But seriously, HOW DO YOU SUPPOSE A POND WORKS? I had a pond in my yard that was stagnant with at least 25 full sized fancy guppies in there and they survived until I took up the pond.
> 
> ...


You're a cruelty to animals. You won't get any help with what you provided. Buying fish as a test subject to watch them die. Flame or whatever you call it you'll never get my feedback. End your hobby if you are too busy for a simple cleaning or too poor for a filter.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

CookieM said:


> You're a cruelty to animals. You won't get any help with what you provided. Buying fish as a test subject to watch them die. Flame or whatever you call it you'll never get my feedback. End your hobby if you are too busy for a simple cleaning or too poor for a filter.


Naice.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

I think we all know that you won't be changed by what we say. It's your money you're putting the the furnace and I don't lose sleep over the death of a few commercially bred fish. But I am bothered by your lack of maturity in this situation. 

A few comments: 

Topping off water only concentrates wastes over time. You're not actually removing pollutants from the system. Only maintaining an equilibrium volume while steadily increasing pollutants. 

Clean up crews do not exist in freshwater. There's no cerith snails or red legged hermit crab of the freshwater world. You deal with waste by doing regular maintenance and practicing animal husbandry. 

No plants, no special old wive's trick, and nothing short of actual care and proper water management will stop your livestock from dying. Your pond may have worked because it was a larger body of water capable of supporting your bioload. A small glass box a pond does not make. 

To be honest we don't need members like you here. Take your questions to Yahoo or somewhere where incivility prevails.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

By the back and forth I have read, I strongly suspect a case of trolling.

Best leave it all be and read a more serious thread.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

Sorry for anything I have said to upset anyone. I'm not trying to be hateful in any way. I'm just trying to learn. These are my first freshwater tanks and I wanted to get off to a good start. I'm working on electricity out there and I will get heaters and filters, which I already own.

Thanks for the help finally!


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> Sorry for anything I have said to upset anyone. I'm not trying to be hateful in any way. I'm just trying to learn. These are my first freshwater tanks and I wanted to get off to a good start. I'm working on electricity out there and I will get heaters and filters, which I already own.
> 
> Thanks for the help finally!


Freshwater tanks won't convert nitrates like saltwater tanks can, due to bacteria conversion, and also removal of proteins by skimmers. So you have a steadily increasing nitrate level. Plants can remove nitrates, but depending on light levels, may require additional nutrients to keep them growing. The absence of the protein skimmer also creates the need for more mechanical filtering, everything you get out with your skimmer, needs to be removed with sponges or floss of some kind, along with water changes. There are people who run low light planted tanks, who can get away without doing water changes frequently, but these tanks are specialized, and require low bioloads, and little fertilizer. Higher light tanks grow plants faster but have a more delicate balance of CO2 fertilizers and water changes. If your idea was to use the plants as a filter for lots of fish, it just won't work. If you are just raising feeder fish, then a large canister filter would be the way to go.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

livingword26 said:


> Freshwater tanks won't convert nitrates like saltwater tanks can, due to bacteria conversion, and also removal of proteins by skimmers. So you have a steadily increasing nitrate level. Plants can remove nitrates, but depending on light levels, may require additional nutrients to keep them growing. The absence of the protein skimmer also creates the need for more mechanical filtering, everything you get out with your skimmer, needs to be removed with sponges or floss of some kind, along with water changes. There are people who run low light planted tanks, who can get away without doing water changes frequently, but these tanks are specialized, and require low bioloads, and little fertilizer. Higher light tanks grow plants faster but have a more delicate balance of CO2 fertilizers and water changes. If your idea was to use the plants as a filter for lots of fish, it just won't work. If you are just raising feeder fish, then a large canister filter would be the way to go.


My idea wasn't to use the plants for a filter, it was to simply remove some unneeded nutrients (like some nitrates, as you mentioned) and supply some oxygen to the water. I'm working on a lid that will fit over the container to allowed gas exchange on the surface while keeping the fishing from jumping out. 

All four containers are outside in direct sunlight for a few hours a day, and during the rest of the day they are in bright, filtered sunlight. They should grow really fast.

I'm receiving about 15lb of anacharis and five or six lily pads in Tuesday. Most of the anacharis will be stuffed into the vacant tanks, and a good amount will be planted in the two tanks with fish. This should provide another food source for the omnivorous fish, decrease nitrates by a tiny bit and provide oxygen.


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## greenman857 (Feb 25, 2012)

*What to do*

I didn't completely read all the posts because it seems like things kind of got out of controll
BUT
If your serious about starting/maintaining a tank/aquarium, fish are the last thing you put in.
start with plants 
Understand that you are creating an ecosystem, 
get floating plants
IMO Frogbit is the best B/c it's easiest to manage and grows so well and seems to manage the nutrients well.
You cant go wrong with Java moss too, it harbors lots of microorganisms.
Once those and other plants are growing and you can see or it seems the tank is looking OK then start thinking about fish.
I doubt there's a person on this board that has killed a fish before so no one should pass judgement just understand the process that you are trying and go from there.
White clouds are much more cold tolerant and may be a better choice as night time temps can get pretty low in a greenhouse.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

greenman857 said:


> I didn't completely read all the posts because it seems like things kind of got out of controll
> BUT
> If your serious about starting/maintaining a tank/aquarium, fish are the last thing you put in.
> start with plants
> ...


Well I'm probably not going to keep guppies out there, but I'll be keeping native North American fish that can deal with the cold temperatures. The pygmy sunfish I got can cope with the temps.

I'll look for some frogbit. Thanks!


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