# BGA blackout nitrate question



## funlearning (May 24, 2015)

I have read and learned lots from this forum, thanks for posting all of the great info. BGA is growing in my tank. I tested for nitrate, and the test reads zero. I ordered some dry KNO2 to "test" and calibrate my test kit, and then to use to bring up the nitrate level. I learned that a 3 day blackout (with an airstone) is a quick way to at least kill what is in the tank. Bringing up the nitrate level should be included in the things I do to likely keep the BGA from coming back. 
My question is should I bring up the nitrate level before I do the blackout, or does that not matter? Thanks


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## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Kno2 or kno3 ? Kno2 is poison to fish (nitrite). For me I just raise the nitrate level regardless of when as long as my plants get enough nitrate.

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## TexMoHoosier (Dec 14, 2016)

No need to dose anything before/during the black-out. No light = no photosynthesis = (essentially) no nutrient uptake. Do a big water change right before you black out. You'll also want to aerate well during and do a large water change afterwards. There will be lots of "stuff" decaying during the black out. Also don't be alarmed when your plants look like they're in rough shape when you are finished. They'll perk up in a few days.


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## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

I recommend raising nitrate from 0 because I read somewhere that higher nitrate level not good for bga survival? Just need to check 

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## herns (May 6, 2008)

I dont do blackout. I never did. But, I usually raise KNO3 dosing in my tank when attacked by BGA.


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## funlearning (May 24, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I ordered KNO3 (not NO2). I put an airstone in the tank after reading a few comments of what might happen without one.
The KNO3 won't arrive for a few days. I am anxious to start the blackout to try to get rid of the BGA. I probably waited too long before attacking this problem. Even though just raising the nitrate level might eventually solve the problem, getting rid of all or most of it in a few days is too tempting to pass up.
Thanks again.
.


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## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Just remove as much bga as possible before blackout 

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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

blackout will help to kill what you have now... just be wary that if you do not solve the underlying reason(s) for why you have BBA in the first place it will probably come right back. have a plan before you do this and potentially waste time / are back in the same scenario.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I question that BGA is caused by low nitrate. I have had tanks with very low nitrates (~0 in the water column) yet no BGA, and tanks with more moderate levels that are still afflicted. Rather it is an issue of bacterial imbalance and high organics. Usually I see BGA when CO2 is too high (suppressing more beneficial bacteria species and giving BGA room to invade) or organics are high (plants in poor shape, dead livestock, etc.). 

Low nitrate may be correlated with BGA if it causes plants to do poorly and deteriorate (releasing organics and shedding leaves that then decompose), though I suspect the association is usually because BGA sucks up all available nitrates. If you look on the reef side of things you will not see people dosing nitrates in their tank to stave off cyanobacteria... 

Depending on how established and virulent the BGA has become just a blackout may not be enough. In severe cases erythromycin works well.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

klibs said:


> blackout will help to kill what you have now... just be wary that if you do not solve the underlying reason(s) for why you have BBA in the first place it will probably come right back. have a plan before you do this and potentially waste time / are back in the same scenario.


+1 blackout or chemical kill of BBA is not a long term solution. If your conditions are ripe for BBA, it will be back before you know it.

My advice would be to post as much information as possible about your tank along with pictures. The more information you provide, the chances of you being helped are greatly increased.


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## funlearning (May 24, 2015)

Thanks for the info. This is a long post, but hopefully will give more information to get some help.

I did try to clean up as much as a I could before the blackout. The blackout ends tomorrow morning. Curious what the unveiling will show! I understand that I need to get at the cause. For the temporary fix, if the blackout does not work, I have read conflicting reports as to whether erythromycin will kill the "good" bacteria. I ordered Ultralife Blue Green Slime Stain Remover as a potential back up.

Interesting comment about too much co2. My tank is an ADA, 60-P. No Co2 (at this time I don't have the time to get involved with the set up, monitoring, etc.). Tank is stocked with 5 amano shrimp, and about 10 smaller fish (i.e. cardinal tetra, galaxys, etc.). I lost a few, so now I need to settle on what I want to have and take some back to the store and reconfigure (but that is another story). I might get a few otos to help with the algea, and they are interesting to watch, and from I read do not add much to the bioload.

The filter is an Eheim 2313. I read that some use a 2315 for the 60-p, but I think that would blast the heck out of the tank. I wonder if moving up to a 2315 would help, but I would need to close down the flow somewhat or get a lilly output pipe? The guy running my local LFS, an experienced planted tank guy, thought that a 2313 would be fine for the 60p. 

The intake is on the back left side (facing the tank), and the output is the spraybar, on the right side of the tank. I had to cut a few inches off the bar for it to fit. I drilled one hole angled 45 degrees up to point at the surface, and the other holes are angled about 45 degrees or so down. I will work on a way to have independent adjustments to the up and the down holes. Would a different output help?

I am due for cleaning of the filter, which have not done for about 5 months (I know, too long).
Plants are the "basic" starter plants, a few crypts, repens, etc.

Regarding CO2, I have a drop checker, which I used a few months back near the surface of the water. It showed the lowest level of CO2 (blue). Tomorrow I will run it again near the bottom of the tank.

Some of my plants are doing well (HYGROPHILA CORYMBOSA STRICTA, and Cryptocoryne undulata), but other are wilting and dying (wisteria, Ludwigia repens, Broadleaf). From one of the above posts, maybe this is a sign of low nitrates. 

My water is fairly hard, with a ph just above 8.0 from the tap (Los Angeles water). I might need to settle on plants that do well in hard water. I read that some can get the carbon from the hard water.

One other question I have is about fertilizers, root tabs vs. liquids. If I want to use root tabs instead of liquid fertilizers, would that get enough nitrate into the water to help keep the BGA from coming back?

So, my plan is to clean the filter this weekend, up the nitrates, and see what happens.
Thanks,
David


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## Oso Polar (Apr 22, 2015)

funlearning said:


> I am due for cleaning of the filter, which have not done for about 5 months (I know, too long).


IMHO this (and bad cleaning in general, too much organics in the water) is the most common cause of BGA.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

funlearning said:


> I did try to clean up as much as a I could before the blackout. The blackout ends tomorrow morning. Curious what the unveiling will show! I understand that I need to get at the cause. For the temporary fix, if the blackout does not work, I have read conflicting reports as to whether erythromycin will kill the "good" bacteria. I ordered Ultralife Blue Green Slime Stain Remover as a potential back up.


When I had a severe case blackouts didn't work. I'd remove as much as possible, blackout, and it looked like it worked. But the stuff came back with a vengeance very soon. If it's virulent to the point of needing antibiotics erythromycin is safe for nitrifying bacteria in my experience.



> Interesting comment about too much co2. My tank is an ADA, 60-P. No Co2 (at this time I don't have the time to get involved with the set up, monitoring, etc.).


Like anything it's a balance. Too much CO2 (to the point where the livestock are stressed) is not good for bacterial balance. Yet in tanks with overly bright lighting and no CO2 BGA may also thrive.



> I might get a few otos to help with the algea, and they are interesting to watch, and from I read do not add much to the bioload.


Otocinclus do not eat BGA. Nothing eats BGA.



> The filter is an Eheim 2313. I read that some use a 2315 for the 60-p, but I think that would blast the heck out of the tank. I wonder if moving up to a 2315 would help, but I would need to close down the flow somewhat or get a lilly output pipe? The guy running my local LFS, an experienced planted tank guy, thought that a 2313 would be fine for the 60p.


I'm not sure what the volume is of the 60p, but for reference my 120 gallon tank requires 2x Eheim 2217. One is rated for tanks up to 164 gallons but was not enough. Take manufacturer ratings with a grain of salt. 



> The intake is on the back left side (facing the tank), and the output is the spraybar, on the right side of the tank. I had to cut a few inches off the bar for it to fit. I drilled one hole angled 45 degrees up to point at the surface, and the other holes are angled about 45 degrees or so down. I will work on a way to have independent adjustments to the up and the down holes. Would a different output help?


Spraybars actually weaken flow considerably. If you need a stronger flow consider just running the j-shaped outlet tube into the tank directly. However too strong a flow isn't good for plants or fish - you just want to avoid any stagnant areas.



> I am due for cleaning of the filter, which have not done for about 5 months (I know, too long).


This is another big factor. Once a month is a good starting point.



> Regarding CO2, I have a drop checker, which I used a few months back near the surface of the water. It showed the lowest level of CO2 (blue). Tomorrow I will run it again near the bottom of the tank.


If you are not injecting CO2 then of course CO2 levels will be very low.



> Some of my plants are doing well (HYGROPHILA CORYMBOSA STRICTA, and Cryptocoryne undulata), but other are wilting and dying (wisteria, Ludwigia repens, Broadleaf). From one of the above posts, maybe this is a sign of low nitrates.


Wilting and dying can occur for a plethora of reasons; not necessarily low nitrates. Low nitrates would have to be a problem for quite a while to cause outright death.



> My water is fairly hard, with a ph just above 8.0 from the tap (Los Angeles water). I might need to settle on plants that do well in hard water. I read that some can get the carbon from the hard water.


Vallisneria really love hard water. There are some smaller varieties out there.



> One other question I have is about fertilizers, root tabs vs. liquids. If I want to use root tabs instead of liquid fertilizers, would that get enough nitrate into the water to help keep the BGA from coming back?


 Root tabs generally don't contribute much to water column nutrient levels. 

But like I said water column nitrates probably aren't the value you should be chasing. Focus on keeping the tank clean and growing the plants well. 

If your BGA is not too bad (not yet to the point of completely coating plants or being all over the tank) and confined to a small area, another solution I have had luck with is applying ADA bacter balls (or bacter 100) to the area in conjunction with the above cleanliness measures.


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## funlearning (May 24, 2015)

Thanks for all of the advice. The blackout removed virtually all of the BGA! There were a few very small areas left (or, it could have been green algae). I removed what I could of that by hand/siphon. Also, not sure if this was a good idea or not, but I also spot treated the few spots with hydrogen peroxide with a syringe. It all seems to be gone, at least so far.

I also cleaned the filter. I had saw this article which has a cleaning procedure once every three months. Eheim Classic Canister instructions This is an old article. Maybe since then the consensus on filter cleaning has changed?

The tank size is 17 gallons. If two 2217s are ok for a 120 gallon, then one 2213 seems like it should be ok for a 17 gallon.

I will see if any vals fit the look of the tank that I want.

I need to work on getting the no3 level up, if not for treating BGA then for the plants. 

I am unclear on the spraybar and the reducing flow issue. I thought that the water comes out with more force the smaller the hole for the output. For example when you put your thumb on the end of a hose, the water comes out with more force than without covering the hose. 

I will experiment with moving the spraybar to the same side of the tank with the intake to see how that changes the circulation. (From what I read, that might be a better setup than what I have now).
Thanks


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

for reducing flow,you could always drill the spraybar holes out a little bigger.go one size at a time until the flow is reduced to the point you want it.

you'll still have the same volume,but less force.Guess I should have said to reduce current instead of flow.


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## Tony Bailey (Aug 2, 2016)

I had a similar problem and the 3 day blackout helped but then the BGA came back...took about 3 weeks but still came back.
I have since cut down on feeding (amount and frequency), increased my co2 and also direct dose onto affected areas with Flourish Excel, this is working a treat and the BGA is on the decline.
I would test for Phosphate as well, this has a huge influence on algae growth, if you can reduce your phosphate level to below 1 ppm (50% water changes every 4-5 days works well) it greatly increases your plants chance of competing with the algae for nutrient. I would refrain in adding chemical to get rid of the algae as this can also affect many plants.
That PH of 8 is also a concern, most plants don't do too well above 7.5, I would try and get this down to around 6.8-7 as well. 
Another thing to consider (as if you need more!!) is how long are your lights on for? I upgraded to an LED panel on 540lt tank and within a week had algae growth all over the tank as it came pre programmed and was way to strong for my tank..... I'm just getting it under control now after about 6 months of trial and error.
So many things and that is why we love it


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## Eric Mraz (May 17, 2016)

Not sure if anyone has ever tried this product, but this is what i used to get rid of my BGA when everything else failed. Its red slime algae remover by Chemi-Clean. BGA was gone i a little over a week and never returned. My plants and Discus were all fine with the treatment. I did under-dose because i was worried about my discus and it still worked. 

https://www.amazon.com/Boyd-Enterpr...21980&sr=8-1&keywords=red+slime+algae+remover


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## funlearning (May 24, 2015)

The BGA has not come back. What ever I was doing wrong hopefully has been corrected.
Tony: I will get a phosphate test kit. As far as the ph goes, I don't want to get into adding stuff to mess with that. I will just stick with plants and fish that can live in my water conditions. I do have an LED light. I have it on for 9 hours a day. I added two otos. Boy, do they clean up the algea! I will drop in some veggies about once a week to supplement their food source. I also got Ken's vegi food to see if the otos will eat that. Your right, that this is a hobby of constant tweaking (but that is the fun).


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