# Is it possible to get rid of BBA?



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Barbels said:


> Have any of you guys ever had the _personal experience_ of having had bba infest your tank and then gotten rid of it for good?


Yes.

First I checked tank parameters, and where necessary modified them. I lowered photoperiod to 8 hours, raised CO2 a bit, and played with filter setup for better circulation.

Proper tank parameters are important and can prevent an algae outbreak. They can also sometimes eliminate an outbreak once established. But I like to simultaneously treat outbreaks in a more direct manner.

So once a week, I removed BBA-infested driftwood and sprayed it with H2O2, let it sit a few minutes, then rinsed and replaced it. Filter outflows with BBA were removed and scrubbed, or at least wiped with a paper towel soaked with H2O2 if the BBA was accessible that way.

Two or three times a week, I measured 2ml H2O2 per gallon of water and applied it as a spot treatment on any BBA I could find; hitting spots multiple times if I had H2O2 left over. That quantity is also enough to be a mild whole-tank treatment. This only took a few minutes each time, and I found it rather enjoyable to watch the BBA bubble into oblivion. I also found it further enriched the experience if I wore a maniacal grin and shouted "DIE! DIE! DIE!", though I'm not sure if this had any actual effect on the BBA.

It kept coming back, but progressively weaker. Was visibly gone after about six weeks. I continued the same treatments for a few more weeks, performing them on all areas where BBA previously existed, to remove any remaining invisible strand or spore.

This apparently exorcised the BBA demon, and I've not seen a trace of it since.

I still do a whole-tank H2O2 treatment whenever I scrub GSA off the acrylic every few months. I figure this helps kill the GSA I've dislodged while it's in a vulnerable state. And it probably also deals a blow to any other algae that might be lurking somewhere, struggling to establish itself.


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## Whitebeam (Jul 29, 2010)

Could you please talk us through how you "spot treat[ed] any BBA I could find"?

Did you take the plants out, or did you somehow do this underwater?

Peter


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## Gilga (Jun 18, 2010)

You can use a dental syringe or something smilar. I'm battling it currently and went from litteraly everything being covered to only plants. I've been overdosing excell and my oto cats have actually been eating some but i'm getting a bunch of amanos to eat most of the dead stuff. The excell killed a lot and vastly decreased its spread/growth to almost nothing.


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## Gilga (Jun 18, 2010)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/112698-help-me-out-please-id-what.html

This is the topic I posted a couple weeks ago. You can see how bad I had it. I however also want to know if H202 can be done on plants from someone who has had the experience with it.


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## jclee (Jul 15, 2009)

I manually removed all that I could but it kept coming back for a while. I started planting more densely, and added DIY CO2 to my tank, and now the plants seem to be out-competing the BBA for nutrients. It hasn't been coming back. Once in a while, I'll see a little tuft of it that I missed the first time around on one of my older plants, and I just remove and dispose of the plant leaf in question. From what I had read, I didn't think ottos would eat it.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Whitebeam said:


> Could you please talk us through how you "spot treat[ed] any BBA I could find"?


Turn off the filters and anything else that causes water movement.

Measure 2ml of common drugstore H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide, sold at 3% concentration in the US) for each gallon of water in the tank. For my 46g, I assume there's 40g of water in it (some space is occupied by substrate and other stuff), so I measured 80ml of H2O2.

Suck up the H2O2 with a large syringe with no needle. By now, the water is nice and still. Gently squirt H2O2 underwater directly onto BBA, taking a little care not to move too much water around with your arm. After a few seconds, you'll usually see vigorous bubbling from the treated algae, meaning the H2O2 is reacting with it.

Continue until you're out of the measured amount of H2O2. If you run out of spots before you run out of H2O2, go over the same spots again. If you run out of H2O2 first, don't measure out more - you'll just have to treat different spots during the next treatment, in a day or two.

Leave the filters off for a few more minutes to let the H2O2 continue to react with the treated spots, then turn them back on. Any unreacted H2O2 will then be circulated around, having a much weaker whole-tank algicidal effect. In my experience this secondary effect often isn't enough to significantly remove algae by itself, but stunts algae growth enough that other measures in combination (proper tank parameters, future spot treatments, manual removal) are more effective; which helps to tip the scales in your favor. It does also stress the fish/fauna/biofilter slightly, but as long as all were healthy to begin with, it's not enough to be a concern even with daily treatments; though I usually wait a day between treatments to allow some extra recovery time, just to be sure.

Some plants are too sensitive to safely use any amount of H2O2 with, as they resemble algae too closely (I hear riccia is one example). Others may only tolerate reduced doses of 1ml/gallon (in my experience, hornwort and anacharis). And there's special cases with algae too - cladophora in the form of Marimo balls tolerates H2O2 well as long as you don't squirt it directly on, but the evil free-growing invasive clado form is almost totally immune. And there's other ways to treat with H2O2, different recommended doses, etc. More detailed info, or debate on H2O2 use and treatment specifics, is off-topic for this thread and well-discussed elsewhere, so I recommend you research other threads to get more info.


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## jefft72 (Jul 17, 2008)

I have read multiple accounts for treatment and all consist of a high level of persistence. H202 and Excel have been used as the weapon in the war. 

My 55g became infested and I became disinterested and defeated. Around the same time I set up a 65g reef tank, which did not help to maintain my interest in my ugly BBA infested planted tank. My options for the freshwater tank were to dismantle it or make it a fish only tank. Neither of the options were good ones in my opinion. 

I have regrouped and am going to take on the BBA with persistence and I want my planted tank back. Regular water changes and filter cleanings I believe will go far in ridding the tank of BBA. 

Good luck with it. It sucks.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Gilga said:


> I however also want to know if H202 can be done on plants from someone who has had the experience with it.


It can. See my last post for details and a partial list of caveats.



jefft72 said:


> I have read multiple accounts for treatment and all consist of a high level of persistence.


^^^ +1, and I'd give more if I could. Also important is attacking it from multiple angles simultaneously; always by proper tank parameters, but in combination with trimming, H2O2/Excel, etc.

Persistence has never been an issue for me, just as long as I know the war can eventually be won.


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## Barbels (Aug 3, 2004)

Wow, peroxide? That's fantastic news to someone who is as terrified of this stuff as I am.

As far as my Otos eating any of it, well it seems they hated BBA as much as I do. However, they absolutely relished eating if off my driftwood _if_ I boiled the driftwood first, and then stuck it in the freezer for a couple days. Put it back in the tank and the Otos had a good old time.

If I only boiled the wood, they ignored it. If I only froze the wood, they ignored it. Boil _and_ freeze - yum.


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## dmagerl (Feb 2, 2010)

I have found that there are many types of algae that Otos wont eat while alive. But kill it with some Excel or H2O2, and the Otos happily chow down on it.

BGA is one such. I killed a whole tank of the stuff and within days it was all eaten, yet while alive, the Otos wouldnt touch it.


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## urbguy (Sep 24, 2009)

Yes, just got all of mine cleared took a while but I was able to get rid of the stuff by overdosing my tank with excel. 2-3 capfuls and it was gone. Have hope!


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## miko12 (Nov 5, 2006)

H2O2 works for algae control but it breaks down Aquasoil. I applied some peroxide to my dwarf grass last week and saw the grains of aquasoil break down to pieces.


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## J.farrand (Jul 12, 2010)

Great info. I let the bba go for awhile when I knew alot less about aquarium keeping. I had to remove lots of plants and removed large rocks and drift woods. This was 1 year ago. I still have small amounts of bba. When I see it starting to come back in force I remove affected areas. H2O2 is new to me thanks.


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## jczernia (Apr 16, 2010)

You have to be careful with H2O2 when you have any type of Vallisneria and Blyxa Japonica. I have BBA on my dwarf hairgrass and I can’t spot treat because it will melt my valls and blyxa, dose any one know any way to help me, with out me pulling all of hairgrass out to do a dip in H2O2. 
I have amano shrimp and Siamese Algae Eater and I will fire them for not doing there job my other fish are starving b/c of them.


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## jczernia (Apr 16, 2010)

You have to be careful with H2O2 when you have any type of Vallisneria and Blyxa Japonica. I have BBA on my dwarf hairgrass and I can’t spot treat because it will melt my valls and blyxa, dose any one know any way to help me, with out me pulling all of hairgrass out to do a dip in H2O2. 
I have amano shrimp and Siamese Algae Eater and I will fire them for not doing there job my other fish are starving b/c of them.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

jczernia said:


> I have BBA on my dwarf hairgrass and I can’t spot treat because it will melt my valls and blyxa, dose any one know any way to help me, with out me pulling all of hairgrass out to do a dip in H2O2.


Some ideas:

Check all your tank parameters. If needed, increase CO2 and circulation, decrease lighting intensity and/or duration, and make sure all plants have necessary nutrients for healthy rapid growth. If you're not sure, post your info; sometimes it helps to get a second opinion. This alone may sometimes eliminate what's there, sometimes not. But it will always slow its growth - and that may be enough to win the fight over the long term by trimming.

A three-day blackout will help cripple BBA too.

Excel works against BBA almost the same as H2O2, but unfortunately it can melt vals too (not sure about blyxa). I've noticed something interesting though. Some plants that will normally melt when exposed to Excel, will not melt when Excel is very gradually introduced; instead, they just grow slower. Note that this is very experimental territory, attempt this at your own risk! Start with 1/4 of a normal Excel dose, repeat for three days. Then raise it another 1/4, for another three days. Repeat until you reach the desired dosage. If the vals look stressed at any point, perform a 50% water change and stop Excel use.


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## bigboij (Jul 24, 2009)

i had a pretty bad bba problem on my DHG before i went pressurized, the swing of Co2 levels due to DIY caused my BBA, once i got that taken care of i was able to OD excel for a few days till the BBA started turning red (at that point i did a 50% WC due to the massive amount of excel that was present, i was triple dosing the first two days and double dosing the last 3 days), at that point the shrimp ate it all red stuff up, its been gone ever since.

the excel OD will help you remove it, but without getting your lighting, ferts, and Co2 where they need to be it will be back. In my experience having steady Co2 1st and not overdoing the lights 2nd are the two biggest factors.

the H2O2 spot treating works great but can be a big job depending on what plants you have, and how big your out break is. The excel OD is the easy way but can be dangerous as you are OD'ing something that could easily kill all your livestock and some types of plants (they usually bounce back tho) if your not careful.

i had corkscrew vals in my tank and even @ 3x od i didn't have a problem with melting, granted this success will vary.


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## littlefish (Aug 6, 2010)

The best way to combat Brush algae is by maintaining CO2 at 30ppm, nitrates at 15ppm and phosphates at 0.5ppm. Leaves that are badly overtaken should be discarded.


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## jczernia (Apr 16, 2010)

OK the tank is a 26 gall bowfront with 48 watt of light for 8 hr and with in the 8 hr my other 24 watt comes on for 2hr only for a burst. Pressurized CO2 one bubble per second only when lights are on. Water changes 2 times a week 25% plus filter cleaning the fertilizers that I use are NPK, Iron and Flourish comprehensive supplement, I read some where to stop dosing fertz to starve bba??
NO2 0.3 mg/l
NH3/NH4+ 0 mg/l
How do you guy figure out the ppm of co2 nitrates and phosphates??? how do you calculate this .
Thanks for all the help


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## bigboij (Jul 24, 2009)

seems like a lot of light you might try to raise em a bit,


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## jczernia (Apr 16, 2010)

bigboij said:


> seems like a lot of light you might try to raise em a bit,


From the bottom of the tank to the light is 2ft should I just use the 2x 24watt bulbs ??


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

BBA is a hard algae to kill. I spot treated the hell out of it with H2O2 for a week and it just laughed at me until I had enough, and took all the infected plants out and dumped the whole bottle of H2O2 on them. That pretty much melted the algae on the spot and within 5 minutes of being in the tank the BBA was red/white and my plants were licked clean by my Otos.


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## Barbels (Aug 3, 2004)

Is the peroxide not terribly dangerous to fish?


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

Barbels said:


> Is the peroxide not terribly dangerous to fish?


If you use it right it wont be a problem. 1-2ml per gallon with a 50% water change after 30 min is fish safe. Anything over and I would be scared it may hurt the fish.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

jczernia said:


> I read some where to stop dosing fertz to starve bba??


This generally makes the plants suffer more than the algae, and weak plants lead to more algae.



jczernia said:


> How do you guy figure out the ppm of co2 nitrates and phosphates???


For CO2, best to invest in a cheap drop checker. You'll also need some 4 DKH solution to put in it, which can be bought or made. I suggest buying at least the first time; later if you want to make your own you'll have the bought version to compare against, to make sure you made it right.

I suspect you'll find your CO2 to be low, perhaps about half what it should be.

Nitrates and phosphates can be tested with cheap kits from the LFS (about $6 each). But the results from those can be questionable. Even after verifying that my test kits are functioning properly through mixing and testing a variety of reference solutions of known concentration, I still find that in my high-tech tanks, plants are deficient if I dose based only on my tank's tested nitrate/phosphate levels; which are naturally more than sufficient due to the high fish load. I suspect that there are multiple nitrate/phosphate forms, that not all are equal when it comes to plant growth, and that the forms in ferts may be superior.

It's better to watch for signs of deficiency, although it takes a little experience to interpret the signs. A good experiment is to increase all ferts by 50% for a week or two, and observe any changes in plant growth. If you notice a substantial difference, then something was indeed deficient. Common 50% weekly water changes will be enough to avoid anything building up to the point of toxicity.


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## jczernia (Apr 16, 2010)

Can any one tell me what would be the best brand to buy Nitrate and Phosphate test kit there are some many choices, and where can I get 4 dKH solution?? Green leaf aquariums is out of stock and I don’ know about eBay and my LFS when I asked about 4 dKH solution they looked at me funny.
Thank you


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## csmith (Apr 22, 2010)

Make your own 4 dKH solution.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/42429-kh-standard-how.html


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## Aubzilla (Mar 2, 2008)

So, if a tank doesn't have any fish, how much H2O2 could one use?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

With no fish, I've gone as high as 8 ml/gallon. This is certain death for anything known to be sensitive to H2O2. Non-sensitive plants still tolerate it well, at least in my limited experience (I've only done this a few times, with a handful of plant species, and not in years).

Apply it all as a "spot" treatment for maximum effect on algae. 6 ml/gallon treats a LOT of spots.

Then circulate it throughout your tank. You'll need to provide some alternate method of water movement, or remove the filter media and put it in a bucket of untreated tank water. Otherwise, concentrations this high will damage the bacteria in your filter media. After an hour, do a complete water change, then restart/replace filters. Keep an eye on ammonia levels for a few days, since you've still killed bacteria on everything else in the tank.

You might be able to go higher. In essence, this is a whole-tank H2O2 plant dip, so look up some threads on H2O2 dips as guidelines for what concentrations and soak lengths are effective and tolerated. With extreme concentrations, note it may take multiple drains/refills to sufficiently flush out the H2O2; and with long treatment times, you might need some way to keep your filter media bacteria provided with circulation and oxygen.


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