# Sarahbobarah's 29g (8-22-05)



## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

You did it perfectly Sarah, good photo.
Quite a variety of fish and plants, everyone seems happy and healthy and I also see you are the proud parent of some baby swords. 
As soon as they show a few small roots they can be cut off and stuck in the gravel to stretch their legs :icon_bigg 

Nice tank.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Ah yes I see the picture- great shot. Tank looks great! As for constructive criticism, looks like you have plenty of light in the tank- foreground plants would do very well in there.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Foreground plants _are_ doing well..... when they're not being knocked out by cories!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Looks like a good looking tank. As for the foreground plants, give it a bit more time. Once they're a bit more established the roots will hold them down and the cories won't be kicking them up.


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## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

hi sarah, great tank! 
what's the plant in front of the powerhead prefilter (i think that's what it is) in the back toward the right? not the grassy stuff on the far right, but the stuff just left of it that's kind of behind the little sword...

Oqsy


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

The bulbs?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Might be the Marsilea (four leaf clover) that you're referring to Oqsy?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

You may find yourself having to remove the swords in the next couple of months as they will tend to fill a 29 gal tank to capacity (spoken by someone whose initial 40g setup included 11 swords, includung 2 Red Rubins  ).

Give it a chance to settle and you'll get a better idea on how the stem plants can be trimmed/relocated. Also, keep in mind that most here are constantly modifying their tanks...whether it be through new plant additions, plant removal, or relocation of existing plants. So it may take some time before you stumble upon a 'scape that really strikes your fancy...and even that may only last for a few months before the plants force your hand to try something new.


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## newshound (May 9, 2005)

sarahbobarah said:


> Foreground plants _are_ doing well..... when they're not being knocked out by cories!


A Botia kubotai tears my foreground plants out leaf by leaf. 
Guess it is not fond of my aquascaping skills.


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## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

i suppose it's the marselia... i always though marselia was a smaller-leaved ground cover similar to glosso.. that looks more like hydrocotyle with clover leaves... 

i like very much... i'll be keeping an eye out for it

Oqsy


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

That's the emersed form of Marsilea (discussed in another thread). You also get taller shoots of Marsilea like that in shaded areas of the tank.

Great start, Sarah. Lookin' good!


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

*One weekish later....*

Here's the tank tonight. I think I'm getting the hang of taking these tank pics.










I moved some things around. Can you tell the difference. I would like to move the larger plants back more to create more depth, or should I just take them out and put finer-leaved plants in? I think the Amazons make the tank look small.

What do you guys think?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

I'd pull them out and replace them with something else (would do so with the Vals that you have in the back also). A 29 gallon is really small for most varieties of swords.

If you really like the look of these plants, then I would take a look at some of the smaller varieties of swords (or even Crypts.). Some other via replacements for these include Cyperus helferi and Crypt. balansae.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Thanks, Ibn (who happens to live in the next city over :tongue: ) I took your advice and put the swords in a different tank. 

Over the past week, I was admiring my tank when something caught my attention. One of my plants, a purple-stemmed one, with purple serrated leaves, was missing all it's leaves! I thought it might be a terrarium plant, but there are new leaves growing. Then I saw what was happening. One of my angels was eating the leaves off! Only that plant? Nope! She's eating all the tips of the vals and sags! Grrr....  

Stupid :fish: !

Ah well. Maybe if I feed her more she'll quit doing it.

So I now have an unidentified anubius, which I think may be lancealota, and cryptocoryn ciliata instead of the swords. I kept the vals in because they match the angels :icon_redf 

Oh, and she ate one of my threadfins :icon_frow Turned around from the computer just in time to see a tail disappear in her mouth.


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## Troy McClure (Feb 22, 2004)

It's a nice tank and everybody looks healthy and happy, but I can't focus. Just some a few thoughts: I see too many water roots, many different plants, equipment, multi-colored gravel, and too much space between stems. I just can't stop my eyes from darting around and it's frustrating. Maybe 'too busy' is the phrase I'm looking for? It's hard to describe.

I would move the large sword to the very back left and go from there. Plant the stems in definable and dense groups, use two to three stems per hole. I think what you had in the first picture was better, it just needed to grow in a bit. It had some order to it, a composition, and I could better focus my eyes on different groups. roud:


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## g8wayg8r (Dec 24, 2003)

How did you get the 4.6 watts/gallons? I sure could use a little more white light in my tank. The lighting is sweet.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Troy, I love your name btw, I totally agree with what you've said. I've been having a lot of trouble getting this tank to come together, but it just hasn't been right yet. I was trying to put my finger on it, and I think you've decribed it perfectly. It's too BUSY!

The multi-gravel substrate, though, I don't know what to do about. It was given to me by a friend in a large bin - flourite and gravel mixed together. 

I'm really tempted to tear everything out, let the tank sit empty for a few days, then start over just to clear my head.

What do you guys think?


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## Troy McClure (Feb 22, 2004)

It doesn't have to be that drastic at all, but if you feel that's what has to happen and you have no worried about a tear down, go for it. If you take out the plants for a day or two and put them into another tank, you should be able to change out the gravel no problem. It's not necessary though, 75% flourite is great. Maybe a few riccia mats as a foreground to cover the gravel? E. tennellus would work well in that tank as well, especially given the type of fish you have. With your high lighting, you might get a kick out of trying to grow H. micranthemoides (baby tears) low as a foreground. Glosso?? That may be too much work. Let's just toss around some ideas until you find something you really want to do.

Can I ask what those powerheads are used for?


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Here is my suggestion, Sarah.

First, I'd add some hardscape. Some "bones to flesh out", so to speak. A good hardscape is going to make the aquarium easier to plant. The hardscape will almost dictate where you are going to place your plants. Given the substrate you have in place (which I like, BTW), look for an interesting piece of _Malaysian_ driftwood. The Malaysian will take on a nice, dark brown color that I think will play well against that gravel. You may also want to find some larger stones _that match your gravel_ and place them about for accent. Odd numbers on the stones. 

Next, simplify your plants. You have quite a few species. You may need to cut down on the number of species of plants, and increase the number of the plants you keep. Follow? More of less!  

Mike


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## Troy McClure (Feb 22, 2004)

What he said. Mike- can you explain what what you mean by "larger stones that match your gravel?" Rocks of varying color? Multicolored rocks? Red rocks?

Sarah - You might consider checking ebay for some driftwood as well. I picked up some really amazing pieces that I can't wait to 'scape into the 85gal. They were dirt cheap compared to what the LFSs charge for driftwood. Granted, most of the stuff isn't malaysian driftwood, but there's a lot to choose from.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

All right. I did it. Tore out the plants and started over. Pics to come. I'm starting to think this tank is cursed or something. It's just NOT coming together!!! Argh!!!!

*Bangs head against wall*


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

sarahbobarah said:


> It's just NOT coming together!!! Argh!!!!
> 
> *Bangs head against wall*


Don't feel bad. I have a 29 gal that people would laugh at if I posted pics. I have good growth and nice looking plants, but it is disorganized and forget the whole foreground, midground, background concept.

If there was a plant god, I think he threw up in my tank.


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## Troy McClure (Feb 22, 2004)

Hey Sarah, I just checked ebay and there are some really gorgeous pieces of driftwood up right now. There are some really intricate pieces from the Ohio similar to what I bought. In fact, the sellers are only about an hour down river from me. It's good stuff but not all of it will sink. There is also a lot of mopani for sale.

http://search.ebay.com/driftwood_Pe...QfromZR40QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ1281QQsojsZ1


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> Mike- can you explain what what you mean by "larger stones that match your gravel?" Rocks of varying color? Multicolored rocks? Red rocks?


Sure, I'll try. 

IMO, stones that are placed in an aquarium using gravel as a substrate should match the color of the gravel closely, unless the substrate is covered by a foreground plant. The way I look at it, a gravel bed is basically comprised of bits of larger stone. The larger stones break down into the smaller gravel. So for a more natural look, it would follow that the gravel bed and the larger stones in the aquarium match up a bit.

At least thats my take on it.  

Mike


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Took the suggestions re bones. Check out the first post now that it's updated.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

I don't know why my plants grow kind of leaning one way or the other.....


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

sarahbobarah said:


> I don't know why my plants grow kind of leaning one way or the other.....


Is your middle name Eileen? 

I bet you have one of those flourecent tubes that puts out more light on one end than the other.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

*Sarah's 29 gallon grow out tank.*

Tonight: 









Updateage. 
I used to have one stem of ammania senegalensis, and now I've got 8. The limno is really coloring up, and the sunset hygro - though it's lost a little of that mauve color, has grown 6 inches!!! 
The only plant that hasn't been happy is the rotala macranda.
And does anyone know what the two plants in the lower right corner are? 




Before: 8-22-05


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## Troy McClure (Feb 22, 2004)

Plant growth is looking really nice. Good mix of colors and leaf structures. Any hardscape or plans for some hardscape?


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

It took me a while to get the macranda to the way i liked it so give it some time. Things are looking great in the tank.

I was wondering what the stats were on this tank. I am not sure if it's the plants but the picture looks a lot brighter than the last one.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Troy, 
ROFL..... what a great way to start a Friday.... sacrelicious... oh man...... my side hurts.....
:icon_bigg 
No plans for hardscape. This tank doesn't want to be scaped. At least not yet. So, since I've been getting such good growth, it has become my "Let's plant this and see what happens" tank. 

Jimmy,
Stats are:
Fluval 404
2 Marineland sponge powerheads
DIY CO2 with powerhead reactor
hagen CO2 system
2-4 inches 50/50 flourite gravel mix (a friend tore down his 100g and gave me his substrate)
Coralife CF with 65 watt 6700 and 65 watt 6700/acticinic. - I think I *did* upgrade between the two pics.

Light set on timer: 9 hours on.


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## Troy McClure (Feb 22, 2004)

LOL! "I know I shouldn't eat thee...."


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

sarahbobarah said:


> The only plant that hasn't been happy is the rotala macranda.


EDIT:
I can only get that to look right when it's no MORE than 3" from the surface, otherwise it looks really ragged.


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

Do you happen to know how tall it is. I have heard macranda does better in a tall tank. 

It usually hits the surface before looking it's best for me but i can still get good coloration on the short stems.


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

I had to edit my post, it was exactly the opposite of what I meant to say. The R. macrandra from my avatar was in a 10g, and was the best-looking I ever had it- and the most shallow tank with 6-7wpg. All my other tanks are fairly deep, and my 65 is two feet deep. The R. macrandra gets looking OK at about 5" from the surface, and the color, leaf size and health of the plant continue to improve the closer it gets to the surface. I let it grow across the surface a few more inches before trimming back, and then toss the bottom and replant the top. The beautiful tops will degrade after being set further from the surface, and once they are about 12" from the surface, the leaves go half-green, the red that remains looks cruddy, and the leaf tends toward ratty edges and some algae. It is probably my most difficult plant to maintain. Zero tolerance for shading as well you may imagine.

here it is in my 10 (under ODNO 9325Ks, so reds are enhanced).. just left of center in the back, behind the Bolbitis leaf:










Sorry for the hijack Sarahbobarah.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

red rubin sword = cool.


Major trimmage.


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## Safado (Jul 10, 2005)

Your tank is looking great!


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

Is that the same tank?


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Wow Sarah, you really did a hack job to that tank!! This ought to be fun to see how it grows in. Any plans for cramming other species in there? :icon_bigg


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Ok, so I'm a lil overdue with an updated pic. I'll have one tonight, hopefully, if my camera quits being wonky.

But, I just wanted to share this tidbit. I switched off my 6700 lights on my tank and used the 50/50 only for a while now. About 2 weeks, I would guess. What I've noticed is that the internodal spaces on the stem plants have decreased. I'm getting very compact, bushy growth, along with holding back a brush algae invasion that threatened to overwhelm my slow growers.

In-ter-es-ting.......


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

Shalu pointed this out to me when i was over at his house. Less lighting decreases the internodal space and leaf size. His sunset hygros were very compact.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Okeedokee!!! Got the new Eheim all set up and boy it packs some punch. I also took all the plants out and am going to put them all back in. Turns out I had more ottos than I thought:icon_eek:


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

jimmydrsv said:


> Shalu pointed this out to me when i was over at his house. Less lighting decreases the internodal space and leaf size. His sunset hygros were very compact.


More is not better

If anyone local wants some 50/50 40 watt 20" PC bulbs, I have some fer free.
Keep up on the CO2 and you might consider 100% flourite or ADA substrate(just the soil).

I have some flourite sitting around as well as some onyx sand.
It ain't growing plants in the bucket

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

OMG.... We went on the SF plant tour yesterday and O.....M......G......

I couldn't have gone with a better mix of people. It was like....... I can't even describe it. You know how some people look at you in a "special" way when you get carried away and start spouting the scientific names of plants and fish? Or get super excited about a new killie or a new barb? O....M...G.... It was sooooo awesomo. 

Well, we went to the famous Amano store Aqua Forest and it was like...... as Jay put it - like being a kid in a candy store! I couldn't even make up my mind what to buy. So I walked around the store like 3 times and finally got:

a fuzzy plant
lobelia cardinalis low form (purpleish leaves underneath)
a ready made tightly grown mat of HC for a steal I tells ya! - A steal!
mermaid weed
more potomogeton gayii
ranunculus

and then we went to Ocean Aquarium and it was awesomo - the owner had obviously set up EACH tank, and I mean EACH tank as a planted tank and then let things grow where they were. It was like buying from DISPLAY tanks! Every "nook and cranny" *has* to be investigated or you'll miss something really really kewl (not cool - _kewl_)

And I bought new plants there too!!!

I was so excited about going I couldn't sleep the night before and then I woke up way too early that morning! Wow! I totally stocked up since it's such a hassle for me to drive through the city. Cheers to Christine for driving!

I'll post pics once these awesome new plants are situated in their new homes!


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

Sarah that must of been my ranunculus that I traded in to them. If you don't mind me asking how much did they sell it for? I brought them about 25-30 nodes of that stuff. It is a nice store, did they have any amano rocks at the time?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You might give the ADA soil a try if you go by AF again.
I think that and EI+ CO2 mist is the way to grow.

It's actually cheaper or as cheap as onyx and flourite per tank.
28$ would do it for your tank size.
You can also submit for an open house for the SFBAPPS and folks can rescape your tank for you etc, we've done that a few times now. 
Mike is going to have a tank tear down event sometime soon also.

We had plenty of HC, better shape than the stuff there at AF at the last couple of plant swaps as well as some of the other weeds you got.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

They did have a bucket of rocks that the guy said amano uses. I didn't find anything in particular that caught my eye but my artistic vision is very limited to say the least.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Yes, Tom, I know I prolly coulda gotten most of the stuff from other members, but to me, it was part of the whole experience - finally buying some weeds I've been keeping an eye out for :bounce: 

I will, however, definately hit you all up for some inverts at the next OH! 

I'm seriously considering putting together a huge tank and using the ADA substrate and going all out on the aquascaping, but for now, I'm really into just getting things to grow well  :icon_wink 

Also, still don't know about this year's living situation. 

:fish1: :fish1:


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I fully understand hunting plants and wabbits, I too like going after them. I ran out of LFS a long time ago, so I go out in air boats, kayaks and look for vile weeds causing problems in the environment and rare ones we should save.

But the plant swaps are fun for the different plants we see.

You should try your hand at a nice scape though. 
Poke around and see the entire start to finish threads for some of the hardscapes.

A 50 or a 75 is nice. Moving is a hassle, but basically one extra trip when doing the move. The tank and ADA substrates are worth the cost. 
You can get the glass stuff locally from Greg as well as the rest of the items locally.

Jimmy, the rocks are variable there, they get picked through.
They are quite nice, but you need a lot of them to do a scape.

I use mainly wood, but I have a couple of OKHO rock tanks, they are worth the cost and look etc.

The basalt might not be so worth while. I've seen a lot up in the mountains.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Tom, would it ever be possible for you to take people out on these hunts? I think it would be a great experience!

I just found out too that I'm supposed to be getting a CO2 system for my birthday this year (but shhhhh... it's supposed to be a surprise).:icon_redf


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

It's a little ragged looking right now, since I've just torn out a whole bunch of plants and put the new ones I got at the SF tour in. I've put in some smaller wood pieces for hardscaping.

I'm pretty happy with the left side growing in, and now I'm waiting for the right side grasses to fill out.

I've reset the tank prams with a 70% water change today.

Added 15 ml. of Flourish Excel.
2 ml of phosphate to get 1 ppm per Chuck's calc.
1 teaspoon of potassium sulfate dry.
2 ml of Flourish Iron (noticed the yellowing of leaves this weekend.) 

Tomorrow will be 15 ml. CSM trace mix.


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## hoffboy (Feb 20, 2005)

How many plant species are in this tank? I count 16. Looking good!


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

hoffboy said:


> How many plant species are in this tank? I count 16. Looking good!



Thanks! Currently, there are 20 species, but I'll be pulling some out as the other plants grow in.

Right now, I'm holding my ground in my fight against pirate algae, and most of the plants look haggard from being uprooted and moved. However, I'm really happy with the choices so far. 

Does anyone know what the pinkish plant is in the lower right half of the tank?


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

I think if you gave your filter tube 1/8 of a turn counter-clockwise, you might be able to make the "EHEIM" slightly more prominent! 

Kidding aside, beautiful tank.
If this is how it looks ragged, I can't wait to see it when it shapes up.
Really nice mix of color and textures.
Manages to not look distractingly "busy" despite the plethora of species.
Can be enjoyed either as panorama of entire tank, or upon closer inspection.
Very nice.


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

Is that HC growing in the front?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

sarahbobarah said:


> Tom, would it ever be possible for you to take people out on these hunts? I think it would be a great experience!
> 
> I just found out too that I'm supposed to be getting a CO2 system for my birthday this year (but shhhhh... it's supposed to be a surprise).:icon_redf


Yes, I go to Marin or the Sierras typically, sometimes the delta.
You'd be amazed at the number of plant species in the mountains.
There's a quacking bog that is really bizarre, Tahoe has a couple of neat marshes, there are some alpine lakes that have some rare plants also.

One location(actually 2) in Marin has about 10-12 species of submersed plants. I also look for wood and rock anytime I go out(which is where the plant thing grew out of. I've found petrified wood in many locations in Sonoma as well as Darters and other fish, FW clams etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## cbennett (Oct 20, 2005)

Does anyone know the name of the plant in the red circle? I got some too and couldn't remember the name. The closest thing I could find was maybe Mayaca sellowiana? I remember there was a name written on the tank it was in - something like Euclaviceae (sp?) but I don't even know if that was for a different plant or what.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

TOM! Your mailbox is full. Popular guy


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

cbennett said:


> Does anyone know the name of the plant in the red circle? I got some too and couldn't remember the name. The closest thing I could find was maybe Mayaca sellowiana? I remember there was a name written on the tank it was in - something like Euclaviceae (sp?) but I don't even know if that was for a different plant or what.


Eriocaulon setaceum/ pipewort Christine!

oh yeah, I found that missing bag of weed. My cats were playing with it.

Ok. Day 2:

3 ml. of excel
2.5 ml of Greg's trace mix


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Sarah - I'm liking the varying colors and textures in the plants you've got. It'll be interesting to see what grows well and how you end up 'blending' them.

You mentioned Lobelia a couple days back. The purplish underneath is an indication of emersed growth. Those leaves should quickly die off an be replaced with solid, lighter green leaves. Quite nice, IMO, but no more purple. I hope yours does turn out to be dwarf, because my didn't and I'm now phasing it out.

Keep those updates coming!
Brian.


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

plantbrain said:


> There's a quacking bog that is really bizarre...


Couldn't let this one pass - a WHAT?!


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## Gilmith (Dec 29, 2005)

I think it was a typo of a "Quaking bog"


wrong place but same thing more or less

http://www.whrc.org/capecod/critical_habitats/Quaking_Bogs.htm

now back to Sarah's tank


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

Well, you've gotta admit a bog that quacks would certainly qualify as "bizarre"!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Err yes, Quaking, not quacking. Walking on a quaking bog is weird and should be done at least once.
Strange.

But there are quite a few places that have aquatic plants in CA.
If we get the chance, the club may have a field trip to Santa Barbara county to The Santa Ynez River canyon(about 3000ft deep) where the only known species of native CA sword plant lives. It's about 3 hours from SJ, there are other aquatics that do well there also. Great place to camp etc and the mountains, water falls, swimming holes and rock formations are quite nice.

I'll be at Mike's this weekend for the open house, I'll bring by some Onyx sand for folks as well as some Soil Master.

You will never know the scaping part unless you try it. The more you do, the better you will become. Honest. You know how to grow so this is the next step.

I tend to do dutch type scapes at home for some of test tanks. Mainly plants forming the scape rather than any hard scape to speak of.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Added a sloping piece of driftwood to the left side. Still waiting for cherry shrimp babies... :icon_cry:


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

sarahbobarah said:


> Added a sloping piece of driftwood to the left side. Still waiting for cherry shrimp babies... :icon_cry:


I have, I'm not kidding, 300 Cherry shrimps.
I'll bring some to the OH on 2/17.

Where's that Onyx sand(flourite also?) I gave you in this scape?
Or was it for another tank?
Looks like things are coming along well.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Tom, I'd love your babies if you have any spares! 

300... sheesh.... I wonder if mine are being sucked into the new Eheim, though I've placed a mesh net over the intake. 

The onyx sand is awaiting a new tank.... There's going to be a big business meeting this Thursday that decides my future for the next few months, and that will tip the first domino.

However, I couldn't wait and snuck some into a new nano tank with your rocks. Oh boy is it purty.


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## [RK] (Aug 11, 2005)

Whats that grassy looking plant in the foreground towards the right? Is it true aquatic?

Tank looks GREAT btw!


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

I wouldn't worry about them breeding. They breed much more rapidly in a tank of their own however. You might draw them out if you feed them waffers. I see mine breeding a lot more now that I upped their feedings to twice a day.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

[RK] said:


> Whats that grassy looking plant in the foreground towards the right? Is it true aquatic?
> 
> Tank looks GREAT btw!


Thanks RK!

The grassy plant is blyxxa japonica. True aquatic. Propagation is by division. Turns pinkish under high light, stays kermit green in more moderate conditions.


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## jhoetzl (Feb 7, 2005)

Wow, tank is looking pretty spiffy! 

What is that reddish stem plant you have in the back, left-middle?


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

jhoetzl said:


> Wow, tank is looking pretty spiffy!
> 
> What is that reddish stem plant you have in the back, left-middle?


Thanks jhoetzl,

That's Jimmy's famous rotala macranda. Finally got it to survive and grow (lol. stopped uprooting and moving it).


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

sarahbobarah said:


> Tom, I'd love your babies if you have any spares!
> 
> 300... sheesh.... I wonder if mine are being sucked into the new Eheim, though I've placed a mesh net over the intake.
> 
> ...


Sarah, 
A little bird mentioned to me that Albany was looking for a good long term manager for the store. The owner is nice, but needs someone that cares about the fish and plants and can can be trusted and competent.

If you are interested, I can ask the owner to speak with you.
He wants to "not need to be around" as much and still have the store run well.

For shrimps:
Try a sponge filter over the intake, reduces cleaning and prevents the shrimp from being sucked up. I have HOB filters and they do fine.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

All my shrimpies died :icon_cry:


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

CSM+B strikes again? So sorry for your loss. 

Switch over to TMG or Flourish and we'll get you a new set of Cherry Reds at Matt's open house.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Bill, I haven't dosed trace for a week. I did, however, double my macros. Could that have done it?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

I've kept my Cherries in 30+ppm of NO3 and 2+ppm of PO4 with no die offs.

How long were you dosing the CSM+B? Even if you haven't dosed it in a week, the accumulation of Cu and other heavy metals may have finally overcome the shrimp.

Was there any other odd happenings to the tank?


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

I dosed CSM + B since.... December, I think, always with a 50-60% water change weekly. But yeah, maybe the heavy metals built up without me knowing.

Other odd happenings? I took two pieces of driftwood out and added two pieces of lava rock. 

Personally, I'm beginning to suspect that it was the new plants I added from someone's pond. Could that have been it? I prolly didn't rinse them well enough.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Hard to say. Unless the plants were treated with somthing toxic, or they introduced some lethal organism I'd lean more toward the CSM+B.

Do some larger water changes and get some Flourish or TMG. We'll set you up with more shrimp at the next meet (if not sooner).


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Thanks Bill. Like Jimmy once said: I love Bill.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

also what are you using for water changes? Amquel, prime, etc? I've had problem with amquel killing my shrimp. Ever since I switched to prime no problems at all.


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

Don't get too sad, you know you can always hit me up for more.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

I'm using a Kent product for freshwater/saltwater conditioning. I can't remember the name and I don't have the bottle anymore (I decant into small bottles for ease of dispensing.) I've been using it for a while now and the shrimpies just suddenly died about 5days after the last water change, unless they were dying before and I didn't notice. 

Jimmy, you're so sweet. The macranda you gave me is finally looking awesome. After putting forth only tiny brown leaves, it finally started growing fat round red ones after I doubled up and started dry dosing macros.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

Sarah my shrimps did that too. It was fine for a of couple times, then all of a sudden half my shrimps died. They did this weird swim up to the surface then a dart backward and then just kind of drifted down. This happened twice to me, the first time I lost half of my cherries (I had hundreds at the time). The second time I learned and once I saw this same behavior I did 2 massive water changes and they seemed fine. Since I started using prime, I have had no problems.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Prime is also one of the more economical water treatments as its recommended dosage is 1ml per 10g of water.

Too bad it has to smell like sewer water. :icon_lol:


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

So I hooked up my regulator and CO2 tank this weekend. Tonight, I noticed that there were no bubbles coming from the wooden airstone, but I was running about 2.5 bps according to the bubble counter. I sprayed the regulator with body spray (I have no windex) and found the leak to be at the top of the bubble counter. 

I figure, that's ok, I was gonna refill the thing with mineral oil anyway. Might as well do it now. So I unhook the whole thing, put the mineral oil in, use some plumber's tape to seal the threads, and restart the thing. Still no bubbles..... I spray again and it looks like it's still leaking. So I take it apart, re-tape it, check the O-ring, everything one does to fix a leaky connection. 

30 minutes later, I've succeeded in cracking the bubble counter. 

About to stamp my foot in frustration, I remember something that Bill mentioned.... something about a water bottle bubble counter..... so I do a quick search, and from a photo on Rex's site, get the idea to build this:
(This is my first DIY how-to post so bear with me)

Here are the parts:









juice bottle, airline, baby hemostat, and test tube stopper with double predrilled holes.










The hemostat is used to pull the airline through the hole in the stopper. Creates a nice snug fit if you pull with a gentle twist. 










Closeup of the hemostat doing its thang.










I filled the juice bottle half way with mineral oil. And, as a bonus, I can use the half-full mineral oil bottle as a bubble counter too.










Closeup of the bottle top. So I have an airline going from the regulator to the bubble counter, and another airline from the stopper goes to the tank.










And here's the finished product. I turned it on and tested it out. I was getting twice the amount of CO2 into the tank at half the bubble rate. Sweeeeeeet....


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Not the first time I've heard these bubble counters going to s____t. Very nice DIY documentation! 

Did you use any sort of sealant between the tubing and the bottle cap?

Also, what's the purpose of the mineral oil? Just that it won't evaporate like h20 bubble counters?


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Ernie, thanks!

I didn't use any sealant. And there are no leaks. I'm testing it out this morning too and I've got it down to 1bps and still a lot of action in the tank.

Yeah, the mineral oil cuts down the evap.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Sarah, post that on the local site, that's an nice series of photo's for the DIY BC.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

Sorry to intrude in the middle of this GREAT TANK post, but what's the big deal with CSM+B. Is it just a problem with the shrimp, or has it been bothering fish too?? 

Now about the tank. It looks GREAT!! I LOVE the color contrast! I always end up with either too much red or too much of 1 shade of green! You are doing a super job of scapeing! :thumbsup: 

Well keep up the good work!
Drew


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

I've had continuing problems with killing shrip for no apparant reason. Only recently have people suggested to me that it could be the Cu level in my micro mix. Once I've got the money for shrimp, I'm switching to Flourish or TMG. 

I'm sorry to hear about your loss Sarah, that's never fun!


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Had a 7 hour power blackout on the block yesterday. Right in the middle of my weekly water change. Total casualties: 3 emerald eye rasboras and 2 gold neon tetras, 1 pygmy cory.  I'm starting to think this tank is cursed.....


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

What's the cause of death? Electrocution? Freezing?

Very, very sorry to hear about that Sarah


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

About 5 hours into the blackout, the power flickered on. I think some of the fish were near the powerhead and filter intake - they got sucked up.  
Then the power went out again, and after roughly 7 hours, the power turned on for good. Again, fish next to the powerhead and those got sucked up. 

Found their bodies later when I was trying to figure out why the water flow was so slow.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Ok people, there's some kind of caterpillar in my tank. Seriously. It's about 3/4 inch long and looks like a green, fuzky caterpillar (fuzzy/spiky). I found it halfway out of a piece of leaf it rolled up to be its home. Lately, my leaves have been looking chewed up, and I'm beginning to suspect that it is the culprit. 

Anyone know what it is? If it's dangerous? How to get rid of it without introducing loaches? 

Looks like a green, freshwater bristleworm.... :icon_evil


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## spdskr (Nov 14, 2005)

Sounds like a caddis fly larvae. The aquatic larvae form homes from leaves, pebbles and detritus. They typically feed on plants, both live and decaying. The adults are terrestrial and have a moth-like appearance. I would guess the easiest way of removing them is to just reach in and manually remove the larvae and their case-like homes.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Thanks spdskr,

Is there a threat to them overpopulating my tank? Or will I eventually be able to eradicate them?


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## spdskr (Nov 14, 2005)

The larvae will not multiply in your tank unless the flying adults have access to it. I'm guessing they came in with some new plants. Other than continuing to eat your plants, they should cause no other problems.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Thank GOD! The first time I saw them, I thought I was seeing things! A Caterpillar underwater fer crying out loud!!!! 

Thank you for allaying my fears.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Well, I'm getting a little fed up with this tank. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of nice growth. But along with that growth have come some problems. 

Here's the tank right now:









You can see some uprooted plants and some plants that are growing willy nilly blocking some slower growers. 

Here's a big problem for me:









The dwarf lobelia was doing fine, but ever since the blackout, some of the bigger mother plants have been melting from the top down. It's like something is eating them from the inside out. 

The agenda today will be to take Tom's advice and try my hand at aquascaping this tank. I'll be keeping some of my favorites and moving some of the others into the holding tank upstairs. 

While I'm at it, I'll be looking for random pests and hopefully eradicating them with my thumb! Mwah ha ha... :icon_twis


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Looks like you are growing the plants perfectly fine, they look really healthy. What do you plan on adding when you scape? any wood?


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Jdinh04 said:


> Looks like you are growing the plants perfectly fine, they look really healthy. What do you plan on adding when you scape? any wood?


Yes, I'll be adding two pieces of driftwood. 
The plan is to thin out the tank, do some trimming of the back stem growers. There are a few species in there that I'm still trying to grow out to a decent amount for further aquascaping presence. 

On the right side of the tank, I'm planting crypt balansae under/ within the growth of the two aponogeton bulbs. The theory behind that is to get the c. balansaes to grow out while the apons reach their full mass and slowly die down. Kind of like how one plants terrestrial bulbs with annual groundcover. 

I pushed the flourite/gravel substrate sloping more towards the back and filled the first two inches of foreground with about an inch of onyx (from Tom). I find that the finer consistency of the onyx helps downoi and other small foreground plants root better. 

The sun has come up now, and the tank is cloudy from messing with it, so I'll post pics tonight.

Oh yeah, I found a pink ramshorn snail at an LFS and they gave it to me for free. It's lost somewhere in the tank but hopefully will make an appearance for the photo shoot.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Ok, here's the tank tonight:










I must say I'm very, very pleased with how it turned out. As some plants grow in, other plants will be taken out. 

Here is what it will hopefully look like in a few months.










And here are two of the inhabitants eating dinner:


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## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

great twigs! is that manzanita? i've been considering using manzanita in the place of my big logs, but I know my plecos would revolt. they LOVE their driftwood tunnels. my bristlenose has successfully eaten my largest piece in half, and then one of the halves into 2-3 smaller pieces. the clown plecos fight over the smaller pieces, and he has taken over the bigger half. All pieces are hollow in the middle and give them a great place to hide during the "daylight" hours. If I could find hollowed manzanita logs, I would probably give it a shot with some of the branchy stuff. great looking tank! I love those tetras... but for some reason I've always thought those guys looked kind of evil. 

Oqsy


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Oqsy, I don't know what kind of wood it is. It's actually sold as a bird perch. I dunno - could be manzanita. It floats, so it's held down by my coralife light. I recently lost my clown pleco, so he's buried under the left side of the branches under the hemigraphis traian.

My tonina belem didn't fare very well because my kH is too high, and I believe it was getting too much light. I think I'd like to try it again, but under some of the taller stem leaves. 

kH: 100ppm
130 watts 50/50 coralife 10-12 hours/day
pressurized CO2 at 1bps
diffused through coralife wood airstone under aquaclear 50 powerhead. 

ferts:
KNO3: 1/4 tsp every other day
K2SO4: 1/2 tsp 
Phosphate: smidgen 
TMG: 1 tsp alternate days




day time:
pH: 6.2 

night time:
pH: 7.2

According to current discussion, the 50/50 lights would be giving me only 65 watts of "useful" light. 

If that's so, then I guess I'm running 65 watts over 29 gallons: 2.2 wpg.
(just thinking out loud)


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Dear plant tank gurus,

am I dosing too much TMG?


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Pink ramshorn. Shell is being eroded by low pH and it will soon be transferred to my snail tank.


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Some of my favorite plants:





























I love the different shades that come out of this plant. (Thanks Ian!)























Hope you like! :biggrin:


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Good pictures Sarah.


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## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

sarahbobarah said:


> Here is what it will hopefully look like in a few months.


did you do that with photoshop? if so, great work! even looking really hard i can't tell that it's edited! i just read back through this thread and realized that it was a "projected" outcome, and not a real pic of the tank. I hope it reaches that point for you soon. It's a gorgeous layout... very nice use of colors (darker colors than most tanks... a very serene look) The wood suits the layout perfectly methinks. good job! I'm jealous. by the way, what's the plant in the far right foreground?

Chris


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## sarahbobarah (May 20, 2005)

Hey Chris! Yes, it's photoshopped. Thanks for the compliment 

This aquascape is called "Gothic Garden" and I chose the darker plants with a few highlights for the effect. I'm going to put in a castle and some ceramic dragons maybe....

I think the wood looks like forked lightning.

And the foreground plant in the right corner is crypt wendtii. I believe it's the emersed form as it looks nothing like my other c wendtii's, but I'm hoping it takes a while to change because I like the way it looks right now.


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

By the looks of things, it wont be to long till yer right there where ya wanna be!! Gonna be a sweet tank for sure!!roud: 

Wish I was more computer literate, I would love to have a master plan all drawn up on photo shop. Then just plant to achieve..:biggrin:


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