# DIY canister filter with built in heater.



## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi. Just started making a canister filter and need a bit of advise. The last of these photos shows a part I think I will need but I'm not sure what to ask for online. To all intents and purposes it will act as a bulk head. I want to be able to attach an 8mm tube so I guess it would need to be around a 6mm diameter.


























And this is what I guess the part ought to look like that I need.








All fairly low tech but lots of fun. Any thoughts very welcome.

John.


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm interested in progress on this, it does look like a lot of fun. Your best bet may be to go to Home Depot or similar and see if they have what you're looking for. What size tubing/hose do you plan on using? Have you decided on a spray bar/intake yet?


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

josolanes said:


> Have you decided on a spray bar/intake yet?


No thoughts on either as yet. If it works I will be using it on my 3 gallon planted nano. It's home to a dwarf puffer so it will need to keep the temperature up to around 80 degrees Fahrenheit. The power head is relatively small so the tubing won't be any larger than 8mm otherwise I imagine the pressure would not be sufficient to provide a fair amount of circulation. I would have thought that an 8mm tube would fit nicely over a 6mm fitting. This is all supposition at this stage. Is Home Depot a US store. I'm on the UK so I guess it would be B&Q's for me. Should be working on the lid in the next two days. Updates to follow.


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh sorry, I didn't notice you were in the UK. Yes Home Depot and Lowe's are both US-based hardware stores. They carry many, many home improvement parts including a large plumbing section, which is where I suspect you might find something to suit your needs

Though maybe someone will chime in with a definitive place to find a part like this

I'm also thinking about it more and remembering that many plumbing barbed fittings like this are metal...so that may not be ideal

I'm assuming this will go through the lid? 

I searched "8mm barb fitting" and "8mm hose fitting" to get some results. I used Google's Shopping site to get an idea of what to find, maybe give that a shot and see if you come across anything that looks like it might work for you?


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

How is water going to drain into the canister? You would all the air removed to start a siphon to keep it going and that is going to put that container under a lot of pressure and pop that plastic clips like they were made of butter.


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

josolanes said:


> I'm assuming this will go through the lid?


They will. I checked google and the preliminary investigations look good. http://www.hydraulic-shop.co.uk/reducing-straight-barbed-hose-connector-nylon-2674-p.asp thanks for the tip.



GeToChKn said:


> How is water going to drain into the canister? You would all the air removed to start a siphon to keep it going and that is going to put that container under a lot of pressure and pop that plastic clips like they were made of butter.


I know very little about physics but I would have thought that as the container is airtight and assuming the inlet and outket pump are below water level the water would automatically drain in. Am I wrong? Even so. Should the Cannister need to be syphoned prior to starting I'd imagine that's possible right. The whole unit is fairly small (1.1litre approx if memory serves). Therefore getting it going shouldn't take more than a good pull with my lungs . It will be fun finding out. As for the pressure... That's an interesting point. These containers are not designed to be filled TI the brim and used as aquarium filters. However I can't see how the pressure inside the canister would be significantly high enough to blow the clips. The fact that the water is heating up could make a difference if it wasn't going anywhere but the evaporation will happen in the tank. Not sure where the pressure would come from. Admittedly if the clips were being removed enough they would wear but they are designed to be opened and closed several times a day right? Can't see that being a problem.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Here's a thread where someone wanted to do the same kind of idea with a bucket.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/178353-possible-permanently-seal-used-5-gallon.html

The math in the thread determine that a 150lb of force is on the lid of the bucket. Give it a read as most suggested that even a sealed 5gal paint bucket, which is made to be sealed tight, would still probably pop eventually unless it was bolted on like a sandwich.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

You might try something like this Uniseal

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store...its-overflows-uniseals/bulkhead-tank-adapters

None of the Home Depots or Lowes here carry any type of bulkhead fittings nor can I find them on their sites. Nor do the contractors plumbing suppliers.

Pressure would be determined by the height difference between tank and canister.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/59440-diy-canister-filter.html


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

If TS doesn't try this I might, if nothing else as a project. I'm really curious now. I have a spare large bucket that I can have act as my "tank" (so I don't actually drain my tank), I have a maxijet 1200 (way overkill I'm sure) and I can pickup a tupperware container for an experiment. If it does pop, it'd be fun to experience I'm sure (where it's not an actual aquarium) and if it doesn't than I'd probably let it run a while to see if it can withstand the forces well enough

Really I just want to understand or see this happen now lol. I also have a week off work starting Thursday so I'll have some time to play with this some


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

TS, please keep us updated. If you'd like to let me try it first, please let me know 

I'll likely get the same type of container as you but mine won't be filled with filter media. I'll subscribe to this so I can keep updated


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

josolanes said:


> If TS doesn't try this I might, if nothing else as a project. I'm really curious now. I have a spare large bucket that I can have act as my "tank" (so I don't actually drain my tank), I have a maxijet 1200 (way overkill I'm sure) and I can pickup a tupperware container for an experiment. If it does pop, it'd be fun to experience I'm sure (where it's not an actual aquarium) and if it doesn't than I'd probably let it run a while to see if it can withstand the forces well enough
> 
> Really I just want to understand or see this happen now lol. I also have a week off work starting Thursday so I'll have some time to play with this some


I tried it about 15 years ago. Had it running for a few months before I went another way. Of course that was before I knew it wasn't suppose to work.


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

Hmm so it can work then, it seems. It may save me the trouble of doing it just to do it - if I can find everything locally I may give it a try some time, though. Maybe try to help my brother with his tank (very tall 47G, about 3ft+)

Thanks for posting GraphicGr8s


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry! Sounds good, works bad! 

Many have tried to build a canister and failed. Some are able to find a solution to the pressure question but by the time they do, they have a canister which takes more time to open than a bank vault. 

The way water works is that once you have the syphone started, it will try to make the level in the canister the same as tank water level. This usually stats the leaking problem. The Tupper ware container is designed to seal only against room air pressure. An air seal is much less than water pressure. 

A simple test is available. Put your mouth over the hole going into the container and blow so that it is under pressure. You will likely find it leaks or the lid blows off. 

Again, Sorry. Part of the learning process. Better to find out before spending money that can't work.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

You may get lucky and get the perfect combination of in/out flow so what is coming in is being pumped out at exactly the same rate it coming in. You're also using a powerhead which aren't meant to pump for head height but rather just directly around a tank, so they are made for vertical water movement, not horizontal and if the canister is on the floor, you're going to need the powerhead to be able to pump water up 2-3-4-5-6? feet. That will probably choke most powerheads. I have an internal fluval filter. If I lift it just out of the tank, it can blow water about 2-3 feet vertically. Tilt it 90 degrees and it can only blow water about 4 inches directly upwards. I was going to use it to pump water out of a reserve of water and it was useless for that.


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

^ the powerhead is likely an issue unless the canister is run beside the tank where it won't need to raise the water much

As for pressure, I can see that it could take a considerable amount of pressure (my Rena XP1, for example, has some very aggressive clips to keep it shut). An option I've seen previously for DIY canisters was this: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/.../62265-diy-pvc-pipe-canister-filter-step.html

The canister above, I imagine, should hold pressure very well.

It was what I thought about doing before getting my XP1, I opted for the XP1 as there's much less DIY (though the DIY looks fun)


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

To clarify. The powerhead will be near the too of the filter. The filter will sit (potentially) behind my nano tank so at a guess the power head will be about 4 inches below the tanks water level. I could of course raise the canister level on a platform so that both water levels are the same. I am really pleased that there are so many potential problems. It means this going to be more fun than I anticipated. All of your comments so far are really appreciated. To give you an idea of scale this is a picture of the container next to the tank.







As you can see, my puffer will need TI give full approval before she allows it to be used so I will be testing it on a bucket that I use to keep plants in. Just got some in line connectors and blanking grommets from the local motor supply store for the lid. I would imagine the lid will be ready in a day or so. Other half is coming over tomorrow eve so I will have to turn the workshop back into a living room


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

Nice little nano tank! And dwarf puffers are one of my favorite fish! I'm looking forward to seeing the progress


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

PlantedRich said:


> Sorry! Sounds good, works bad!
> 
> Many have tried to build a canister and failed. Some are able to find a solution to the pressure question but by the time they do, they have a canister which takes more time to open than a bank vault.
> 
> ...


Thing is there really won't be that much pressure since he's keeping the container just a little lower than the tank.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

It will work fine as long as it is at about the same level as the aquarium. I use those containers to hold flours and I have found that the fold down clips thzt hold the top on break at the fold eventually. But, that will probably take a couple of years. 

Starting a canister filter is tricky even for commercial ones. Starting this one could be difficult. You need the water path from the tank to the powerhead to be full of water or it won't start. That requires bleeding the air out. I like the way the Rena Filstar canister filters are designed for easy starting. They put a tee in the input hose to the filter, with one end pointing up. To start it you pour water in that open end of the tee to fill the inlet hose, cap that opening, then turn on the pump. The water in the inlet hose dropping down to the filter generates enough suction to pull water up over the tank rim and the siphon is then completely started. I have used their idea on a Fluval filter and it worked equally well on that one. It would be easy to DIY that for this filter.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

To start my filters, I always just grab the outlet and suck the air out. Gave up on all the fancy priming buttons and plungers and things. lol.


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## DerekFF (May 24, 2011)

To start it you can use a powerhead or large syringe to push water through the intake hose to start the syphon. Arent these technically sumps not really canister filters?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## In.a.Box (Dec 8, 2011)

As long there way water to get out it will hold.
How long will it hold up is the question and time will tell.

It will be better if water go through the bottom and not the side with those holes.
Picture down up instead of side up.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

GeToChKn said:


> To start my filters, I always just grab the outlet and suck the air out.


You'd be sucking a long, long time on my XP4 canisters! :icon_lol:


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

I have an XP3 running on one of my tanks and it's the way that the water doesn't come to the too that makes me think the water in this filter won't need to either as long as the suction end of the powerhead and the inlet tibe are both below the water line.


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

In.a.Box said:


> As long there way water to get out it will hold.
> How long will it hold up is the question and time will tell.
> 
> It will be better if water go through the bottom and not the side with those holes.
> Picture down up instead of side up.


I can see the logic in that. However I really wanted to incorporate the heater and I figured that would require a baffle of some sort to allow it to do it's work. That meant when doing the initial plan I was considering the most effective way for the water to flow in order for the filtration and the heating to take place. If I was not incorporating a heater I would have either the outlet or the inlet at the bottom (would it make a difference which way round it was?).


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## jeremyTR (Mar 21, 2012)

I wanna do this!

Would I be able to do this using a maxijet 600?

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

DerekFF said:


> To start it you can use a powerhead or large syringe to push water through the intake hose to start the syphon. Arent these technically sumps not really canister filters?
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


Would it have to be draining as opposed to using suction in order to be a sump?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Canister filters are a closed loop - like a swelling in a loop of hose from the tank back to the tank, with a fully enclosed pump pushing the water along. A sump is not closed loop - the sump is vented to atmosphere, where the canister filter always has a head of pressure in it, equal to the distance from the top of the tank to the canister. This DIY clearly is a canister filter.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

i really like the idea and design. good luck and looking forward to seeing how it turns out!


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> A sump is not closed loop - the sump is vented to atmosphere, where the canister filter always has a head of pressure in it, equal to the distance from the top of the tank to the canister.


I am currently running 3 internal filters on seperate tanks, 1 Rena XP3 and I have two tetratec ex700 canister filters waiting for some thing to do (won't be long). This project is about learning for me. It is the sharing of knowledge, ideas and opinions - as yourself and everyone else has - which makes it fun and worth while. Thank you all.


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

josolanes said:


> TS, please keep us updated. If you'd like to let me try it first, please let me know
> 
> I'll likely get the same type of container as you but mine won't be filled with filter media. I'll subscribe to this so I can keep updated


Sorry, completely overlooked this post (in truth, I've just found out what TS stands for). I really hope you try this and I look forward to hearing how you get on if you do.

I'm taking the lid to a friend who has a cone drill bit and by his own admission knows a lot about drilling. He has made some interesting suggestions regarding the grommets I was going to use in the lid to thread the cable through. He is aware of the thread so he may pitch in. Either way I'll keep you posted. The lid should be drilled by tomorrow at which point I will set the heater and powerhead in place.

I got some 8mm barbed in line hose for the inlet an outlet points on a well known auction site which should arrive today or tomorrow.










So the lid should be fit for trial on Thursday or Friday.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

If the plan is to keep the outside container water level equal to the tank water level, this would seem to be more of a modified HOB, rather than a canister. If the water in and the water out can be made to equal, it may work as a HOB filter which sets rather than hangs. 
Whether it is workable for the amount of media, ease of cleaning and expense is still an open question to me. 
Many people have failed at doing a DIY canister but I see few trying to design HOB because they are so reasonably priced that buying the parts can exceed the price of buying ready made. HOB filters can be found at less than $25 and they work very well.


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## DerekFF (May 24, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> Canister filters are a closed loop - like a swelling in a loop of hose from the tank back to the tank, with a fully enclosed pump pushing the water along. A sump is not closed loop - the sump is vented to atmosphere, where the canister filter always has a head of pressure in it, equal to the distance from the top of the tank to the canister. This DIY clearly is a canister filter.


This doesnt seem close looped to me. Its working off of an overflow or siphon? If water return is faster than water supplied it is not a closed loop.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

It will work by siphoning water into the air tight (hopefully) container as the powerhead pushes it out.

Should be able to test this over the weekend. I should be able to record the test and upload it to a well known video sharing site.

I will test it without filter media first and then add the media. I'm thinking ceramics at the bottom where the water meets the media first, then coarse sponge, then floss at the top. Any thoughts?


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## DerekFF (May 24, 2011)

Usually media is the other way around but for design purposes it may just have to be that way. Doesnt really matter all that much 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## longbeach (Nov 2, 2011)

Bulkhead fittings? Find a boat shop...the fittings for the drain plugs are nice bulkhead fittings and not expensive.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

longbeach said:


> Bulkhead fittings? Find a boat shop...the fittings for the drain plugs are nice bulkhead fittings and not expensive.


But they are one sided fittings. There isn't any way to attach hoses or pipe to both sides of the bulkhead. At least that's how the fittings are on my boat. The drain on my boat is also brass. The livewells are plastic but are a pressfit.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Potential problems to think about? 

If the filter tank is about 4 inches below the water level in the tank, do you have provisions to stop the water from overfilling the filter tank? The syphon will attempt to keep both levels equal. While the power is on, one might be able to match inflow and outflow well enough but what happens when power is lost or the pump impeller becomes somewhat less effective? A bit of sand jamming the impeller may cause a flood.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

It is (from descriptions given) a sealed system, like a canister not a sump. So long as it stays sealed why would power matter? Does a canister overflow during an outage?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

GraphicGr8s said:


> It is (from descriptions given) a sealed system, like a canister not a sump. So long as it stays sealed why would power matter? Does a canister overflow during an outage?


Exactly! That's why this is a closed system and not an open system.


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## CatB (Jan 29, 2012)

cool concept, hope it works out...
but one thing that nobody has mentioned...are you sure this tupperware won't melt with a heater housed in it? most of these tupperware plastics melt at high temperatures, i guess 80 degrees isn't that hot but i'd be worried at least about where the heater is mounted?


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

CatB said:


> are you sure this tupperware won't melt with a heater housed in it?


Good point. The element of the heater should be far enough away from the bottom of the container to not be a problem. Even so, convection and flow should ensure that the container doesn't get too hot in one place. The top of these heaters do not (in my experience) heat up. Glass does conduct heat but not exceedingly well so I would think that it will be ok on that count. Add all of this to the fact that these containers are microwaveable and can presumably withstand temperatures that are considerably higher than this and I would hypothesise that the heat won't be a problem. We will probably know by the end of tomorrow


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

The question of power comes up due to this not being a canister. It is not going to be sealed if it exposed to water pressure. If it is used so that the water level stays the same as the tank, there will be no pressure but when any pressure hits this lid, it will not be sealed. This is a very flexible plastic container. If we compare this plastic to any canister material, the difference is obvious.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

PlantedRich said:


> The question of power comes up due to this not being a canister. It is not going to be sealed if it exposed to water pressure. If it is used so that the water level stays the same as the tank, there will be no pressure but when any pressure hits this lid, it will not be sealed. This is a very flexible plastic container. If we compare this plastic to any canister material, the difference is obvious.


If the water level is the same as the tank then the pump will create suction and move the water from the tank into the filter. Since it is under a small vacuum it remains sealed. If it is slightly below as OP has indicated actual pressure isn't really a problem.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I may have missed an item somewhere. Is there a bulkhead fitting of some sort to hold the heater airtight? Silicone on plastic will rarely hold. On a heater, it seems less likely. Once the plastic flexs like during lid removal to clean the media, the silicone will likely pop loose. 

Where most people run into trouble on designing the DIY filters is sealing things and still being able to remove the lid to clean the media. Threaded fittings are often tried but then it becomes a real hassle to turn the fittings to unscrew them without flexing the container enough to break the seals at various joints. Lots of small things that eventually lead to disappointing results.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

As long as there is water in the filter it can't melt anything, I think you might be better off with a large plastice jar and a screw on lid, if you can find one the is short and fat.


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## DerekFF (May 24, 2011)

After more pondering on this i do see that it is clearly designed to be a canister should it remain sealed well. Any airleaks however and its a sump!!!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

PlantedRich said:


> Silicone on plastic will rarely hold. On a heater, it seems less likely.


This is a real problem. I am aware that silicone on plastic is not a very effective adhesive. I am speaking to a friend who has an Aladdin's cave of fittings and connections in his van, we may find something in there. Alternatively. I may try perforating around the main hole for the heater in order to give the sealant an extra foothold both above and below the lid.


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

IP65 Dome top cable gland. According to a trusted friend this should do the trick. It will act as a sleeve for the heater and as it is tightened in place a rubber seal expands inside to seal the gaps. They come in all sorts of sizes so they may even work for the inlet and outlet hoses. For the record -you are a genius Danny!!!


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I use those connectors often and they work great. My DIY inline heater has one of those so I could insert my Jäger heater. The heater is upside down, entering the PVC housing from the bottom and no leaks. 

Good luck on the filter.


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## moonshinetheslacker (Sep 13, 2010)

Just so you know, I'm certain this will all work very well as long as your heater issue is figured out. My _frankenfilter MK2_ worked great... as long as there was only 6 to 8 inches of head space (the distance from the top of the filter to the top of the tank) OR when the pump was turned on. The second the pump turned off, I had some serious leakage issues with the filter being 2 feet below the tank. You can see franky here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/129415-anyone-interested-diy-canister-filter-thread-3.html

I still have him, and intend to use him someday, mounted on a wall ABOVE a tank. I might even mount a light beneath him, to light up a tank.


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## karatekid14 (Jan 16, 2011)

As a heads up, I attempted to do what you are doing a few months ago and I learned something important. Not all heaters are created equal! It was an aqueon heater and it leaked from the temperature control knob-not from around the cord grip but the knob. I would check to see how close of a fit around the knob there is before using it.


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## iamjohnny75 (Sep 26, 2011)

karatekid14 said:


> As a heads up, I attempted to do what you are doing a few months ago and I learned something important. Not all heaters are created equal! It was an aqueon heater and it leaked from the temperature control knob-not from around the cord grip but the knob. I would check to see how close of a fit around the knob there is before using it.


Thanks for that mate. I know what you mean about those heaters. I pulled the top of this one very easily. I was turning the paper around inside it as it was covered in super-nano heater logo's which were not aesthetically pleasing. Not an issue in this filter but i did it when I was intending to use the heater 'as is' in my nano tank. I replaced the paper with a black piece which helps the heater to 'disappear' a little more effectively against the black background of the tank. As I said it came off very easily and I had to re-thread the heating element around the heatproof cylindrical frame it is mounted on in the bottom of the heater (it still works.. I've tested it). After doing this however I did reseal the top section of the heater with aquarium sealant. In truth I don't think that this would have been a major issue with this design as the heater is not fully submersed in water but nice one for the heads up.


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