# ADA Gallery Pictures * My Trip To Japan* Warning 56kers New PICS 2/18/05



## Thanks

wow. :icon_bigg 

i especially love pic 1 and pic 8... who scaped these??? Holy crap. Awesome pictures too! Incredible use of narrow leaf java ferns... looks kinda like in my tank. There is a LOT of substrate in some of the tanks!

3/4 inch thick glass?! wow. All of these are simply amazing.


----------



## Buck

Stunning...
What a great experience that must have been Marc, you must have spent a few hours there I imagine. Thanks very much for sharing those photos with us, someday I would love to share the same experience !


----------



## m.lemay

I love those open top frameless tanks. Absolutely gorgeous. Some day I wil build one of my own. Theres gotta be something better than silicone to hold those corners together, especially the big ones. Theres a lot of pressure on that glass.

Marcel


----------



## GTApuffgal

*ADA Gallery Pictures*

Absolutely breathtaking, Marc. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. Those photos are stunning and inspiring. 

Kathy


----------



## scolley

So Marc, what's with the lights? Is that actually 1 MH per 2 feet of tank? It looked like there might be some exceptions though. Like the big tanks near the stairs. Those looked like two rows of MH+PC lights.

Do you remember?


----------



## brookline45

Fantastic pictures. There is something on a suction cup in the each tank with a thin tube coming out. Is that some type of a low tech co2 diffuser?


----------



## Silent Running

Man, those are amazing!!! That must have been fantastic. How were you able to get in to see them? Is that open to the public?

The only thing I would do differently would be to paint the walls of the room black and get rid of all of the windows so that there's no competing light .


----------



## PinkRasbora

*Amazing!*

These tanks are so breathtaking!!!! The pictures you toke are awsome also, you have a good eye for photography. I would like to know what kind of camara you used.


----------



## fishfry

brookline45 said:


> Fantastic pictures. There is something on a suction cup in the each tank with a thin tube coming out. Is that some type of a low tech co2 diffuser?


that is a CO2 diffuser, ADA has an entire line of their own diffusers


----------



## Hop

Marc,

A few questions about some of these set ups.
1. What was the flow through the aquariums like? heavy or low. It seems like the tanks would have very little movement based on the looks. Not like mine where all the plants grow toward the east, not becuase of light, but due to the high velosity water streams pinning plants against the glass.
2. does the ambient light of the room contribute to the tanks, or is most of the lighting acheived from the HQI lights suspended from above.

You know I love the tanks, but I'm more drawl into the behind the scenes approach to the HQ.
Thanks again for the great pics!


----------



## Marc

Thanks said:


> i especially love pic 1 and pic 8... who scaped these???


Thanks, Thanks  From my understanding the tanks are maintained once a week by his helpers/students. Not exactly sure if Amano himself scaped the tanks.



Buck said:


> Stunning...
> What a great experience that must have been Marc, you must have spent a few hours there I imagine. Thanks very much for sharing those photos with us, someday I would love to share the same experience !


He Buck, Yes! I was there for HOURS! I just couldnt get enough of his tanks.



scolley said:


> So Marc, what's with the lights? Is that actually 1 MH per 2 feet of tank? It looked like there might be some exceptions though. Like the big tanks near the stairs. Those looked like two rows of MH+PC lights.
> Do you remember?


Hey Steve, the 2 tanks by the stairs have one MH lamp and 2 PC on the side.
The tanks seem to house his lower light plants. All the other tanks run just MH lamps if i remember correctly. The big wide tank with the sump, run 6 of the MH + PC fixture. Here is a bit better picture showing the wide tank.
GAH I WONDER WHAT THE ELECTRICITY BILL LOOKS LIKE!











Silent Running said:


> Man, those are amazing!!! That must have been fantastic. How were you able to get in to see them? Is that open to the public?


Hi Paul- Yes the Gallery is open to the public only during certain times of the month. I think it was every other weekend or something. Its free also!



PinkRasbora said:


> These tanks are so breathtaking!!!! The pictures you toke are awsome also, you have a good eye for photography. I would like to know what kind of camara you used.


 PinkRasbora you are too kind :icon_redf I think the pictures are okay. The camera is a Canon PowerShot A70. Still practicing though :tongue:


----------



## Marc

Hop said:


> Marc,
> 
> A few questions about some of these set ups.
> 1. What was the flow through the aquariums like? heavy or low. It seems like the tanks would have very little movement based on the looks. Not like mine where all the plants grow toward the east, not becuase of light, but due to the high velosity water streams pinning plants against the glass.
> 2. does the ambient light of the room contribute to the tanks, or is most of the lighting acheived from the HQI lights suspended from above.
> 
> You know I love the tanks, but I'm more drawl into the behind the scenes approach to the HQ.
> Thanks again for the great pics!


Hi Hop,

1) The flow in the aquarium was low. you could hardly see the water current. Very slight ripples at the top of the tank. I think his glass returns are part of the reason. They open up so wide that its not like a super jet pushing everything around. The plants in the tank dont seem to move much. 
2) Beside the light fixtures from the tanks, the room we very cleanly lite. But i also think that alot of the light comes from the tank fixtures.

Here are a few more pictures for everyone! Thanks for looking and the compliments! roud: 









My Friend Chung who is currently teaching English in Japan- He was my translator and the main reason i was able to visit ADA.








Under The Hood!








Mainly Rice fields around ADA








ADA's New Project? Biotopes








Entrance as well as the exit of the Gallery!


----------



## Hop

Marc,

Thanks again! I've seen several posts of pics from the ADA headquarters, but yours were definately the best.


----------



## Robert H

I look at all those MH lights ad I cringe, the electric bill to power all those lights has to be huge! Not a spec of algae in any of those tanks. That ought to say something for how well Amanos system works.


----------



## Hypancistrus

I did a little searching and found the company web pages:

http://www.adaeurope.com

http://www.adana.co.jp

It's too bad their web page layout isn't as well designed as their gallery. I was hoping to find a list or catalog of their products... no such luck.


----------



## scolley

Look here...

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com

and click on the Shop ADG link at the top.


----------



## GulfCoastAquarian

Robert H said:


> I look at all those MH lights ad I cringe, the electric bill to power all those lights has to be huge! Not a spec of algae in any of those tanks. That ought to say something for how well Amanos system works.


 True, but having a bunch of adoring students willing to work for a mere pittance helps, though!
Awesome picstures, Marc! Once again, Amano is an inspiration for us all.


----------



## Hypancistrus

*!!!!*



scolley said:


> Look here...
> 
> http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com
> 
> and click on the Shop ADG link at the top.


Holy cow, considering how cost conscious people are here, that's outrageous!

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=113

$465 for an empty CO2 tank that's a foot and a half tall and four inches thick and only holds the equivalent of 18 small CO2 cartridges?

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=26

They charge $380 for their smallest filter, yet they publish no specs, no photographs, no details of their internal workings, and the information they do present is inconsistent! (There's at least 9 different models in the photograph, but three models listed, and no indication of which model is which, for which size tank, flow rates, etc.) They actually expect me to click "add to cart" for this and pay $780 without _any_ specs?

People jump on me all the time and tell me I have more dollars than sense for using Seachem products instead of Greg Watson products... I wonder how they feel about their fertilizers?

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23

They charge $11 each for 250mL, and they have it formulated and marketed in a way telling you to buy "Step 1," "Step 2," "Step 3," saying each "step" is formulated differently for each stage of the plant's growth!

This almost reminds me of stereo cable manufacturers who charge hundreds of dollars for audio and video interconnect cables. Either that, or "professional" installers and services can use all of this equipment and bill rich clients an arm and a leg for their setups and justify the expenses!

I'm sorry I sound so harsh, the gallery pics are really great, but the products and prices are totally nuts!


----------



## Marc

I don’t think anyone is going to disagree with you that the prices are definitely more expensive. BUT I would like to add that even though the prices are high, it doesn’t mean that the quality isn’t there. They probably do not mass produce their products, everything is probably hand made, and since they are imported to the US. I'm sure additional charges could have been added. 

I also believe that you DO NOT need all or any of his equipment to be successful or enjoy the hobby. Amano just takes it to a different level. 

With that being said, I’d like to keep this thread headed a certain direction, enjoying the pictures, promoting the hobby and inspiration for all.

I hope everyone is enjoying the pictures! roud:


----------



## scolley

Marc and Hypancistrus, I'm in a rush so I'll try to be brief (HARD for me)...

The reason why people are "ooooh"ing and "aaaahh"ing over this thread is, among other things, because WE DON"T KNOW HOW HE DOES IT. Look at Amano books - some information sure, but definately not enough to reproduce a given scene.

Well one of Hypancistrus gripes is that there isn't enough detail. No info. Well look at an Amano book - no info. Pretty pics instead...

I'm going to get in trouble here, but I studies bonsai for many years before turning to this hobby. And I think this is just the way of the Japanese culture. They are big on "DO". Very low on "WHY", or even "HOW". It's a culture of "do as I say, understanding will come with time."

_We see this philosophy in the tanks, the books, and in the products._ They are all related, and all a product of how that culture teaches.

Otherwise, those tanks wouldn't be such an aluring thing to us. We'd all know how he does it.

Also (don't want to hijack the thread topic, but do keep in mind that the exchange rate between the Yen and the US or Canadian dollar is killer - tough to buy a glass of orange juice using those currencies, much less nice equipment).


----------



## Jackfrost

Marc said:


> I hope everyone is enjoying the pictures! roud:



This is great !

I love to see these tanks up close.

Just the ideas one gets of trying new things is priceless.

Thanks for the photos !

Nick roud:


----------



## Hypancistrus

scolley said:


> The reason why people are "ooooh"ing and "aaaahh"ing over this thread is, among other things, because WE DON"T KNOW HOW HE DOES IT.
> 
> ...
> 
> Otherwise, those tanks wouldn't be such an aluring thing to us. We'd all know how he does it.


Then what's the point of the forum? :icon_lol:


----------



## IUnknown

Because our culture is different. We want to figure out how its done, and share our experiences. Both me and scolley have applied what we've learned from ADA aesthetics to our tanks, and have shared what we've learned. We've also figured out how to make it affordable. The next project for me is getting an ADA style tank. There are ADA products that are unique and IMO worth the money (substrates and MH bulbs). The rest is probably not for the average consumer.

Oliver has some good photo's if anyone missed them,
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/special_event


----------



## wintermute

Marc, what's going on w/ those "biotopes" in the clay pots? not sure what these are and i'd like to know if you have any info on them


----------



## Urkevitz

As usual, looking at Amano's tanks has made me change my aquascape around :icon_idea


----------



## Overfloater

Great photos. I especially like the fact that there are benches in front of the tanks. Makes it hard to want to leave. :icon_bigg


----------



## Marc

wintermute said:


> Marc, what's going on w/ those "biotopes" in the clay pots? not sure what these are and i'd like to know if you have any info on them


Well basically its a planted aquarium but to house outdoor stuff, sorta like having your own mini pond! When i looked inside them, some of them had fish!
Anyways i think its because of the general lifestyle of Japan and its people. Space if very limited in Japan, and not everyone can have pond or live by the river. Same idea as our aquariums. It brings nature to our home.
ADA has a whole line of these pots as well as substrate and other things.


----------



## wintermute

does anyone know of any information on the web regarding those little baby biotopes?


----------



## Marc

I got some information on paper- i'll try to scan them in at work tomorrow.


----------



## PJAN

Amazing photo's! Thanks for sharing. It inspired me te get me a new tank, complete with a new design. When ready, I will share the pictures here.

One question : how tall (length, depth, height) are the regular tanks. Like the tanks in the back or your 'favorite'?
Perhaps you can give me an idea?
Thanks in advance.

PJAN


----------



## Marc

PJAN said:


> Amazing photo's! Thanks for sharing. It inspired me te get me a new tank, complete with a new design. When ready, I will share the pictures here.
> 
> One question : how tall (length, depth, height) are the regular tanks. Like the tanks in the back or your 'favorite'?
> Perhaps you can give me an idea?
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> PJAN


PJAN- i'll get the dimensions of the tanks when i get home from work. I have a catalog with a bit more detail, i'll see if its in there.


----------



## Marc

wintermute said:


> does anyone know of any information on the web regarding those little baby biotopes?


Here you go. Prices are in yen so move a decimal to places over to the left for USD.


----------



## PJAN

Thanks for looking it up. Maybe it canbe estimated by the size of the lamps?
We'll see.

Ordering the new tank next tuesday..
I own already a very big planted tank, so I will introduce myself soon in this forum.

PJAN


----------



## wintermute

Thanks Marc! now i have alot more to drool over. gotta love those really small lillies! must find a web forum about this stuff!


----------



## Lou T.

This thread makes me ill. I mean SERIOUSLY physically ill. I've lurked and watched it grow long enough that I can't help but register and state how revolted I am at the utter hypocrisy of you people. Anyone can aquascape a beautiful looking tank and have it look good for several days to a month at least. The fact that they are selling equipment that is a blatant rip off with prices that are at least 10 times the normal costs is reason enough to see it's plainly evident that their "gallery" is there to back it up.

They do a lot of things that are not only wrong but are also downright abusive to their animals. Over a foot of substrate on the tank bottom is going to mean that the slightest disturbance in any one of those tanks is going to release a crapload of hydrogen sulfide and other biological toxins.

Those "container water gardens" are deathtraps. I and many others have gone on a campaign in the states to stop the explosion of "container water garden" articles that have appeared in recent years. These things are toxic fish hellholes. Many of these articles actually tell people to seal a flower pot, paint it with lead based paint, fill it with water, throw in a lilypad, several goldfish, and a pinch of bio zyme, and they will have a beautiful container garden! In reality it turns into an algae-laden cesspool of organic waste within a couple weeks, the lilypad turns to mush, and the fish die a slow toxic death. Seeing that container garden catalog above sickens me because it perpetuates the idea of doing this. It CAN be done, but you need to follow exact steps, and install pumps, bubblers, CO2 injection, filters, and in short, ALL the SAME equipment that goes in an aquarium. The catalog above of course (like all the others) makes no mention of that.

Finally, I can't believe the attitude of people on this forum. Just because this "Marc" guy posts pretty pictures, all anyone can do is OOO and AAAH the pics. When ONE person here points out the fact that this outfit is charging exorbitant prices for equipment and fertilizers, EVERYONE jumps on him telling him it's all about the different culture, and no one should "question" how they do it, their techniques, etc.

Think about this seriously folks... would YOU buy a $1000 aquarium filter with no specs? What are you trying to say Scolley, that I should lay down $1000 and not question the why and how of it? How the hell am I supposed to hook it up based on tank size, scale, etc.? FOR GOD'S SAKE, THEY ARE SELLING THIS EQUIPMENT AS A BUSINESS!!!!

Meanwhile, in other threads, everyone all OOOs and AAAAHs they CHEAPEST equipment. Forget Kent Botanica, forget Seachem, forget Flora... it's all about Greg Watson's cheap bulk "Poor man plant" products, filling your eheim with polyester from a fabric store, etc. Yet here, just because the pictures are pretty, ADA is seen as awesome and their ridiculous prices are justified.

EVERYTHING YOU SEE IN THE ADA PICS CAN BE DONE WITH EQUIPMENT THAT COSTS AT LEAST 10 TIMES LESS THAN WHAT THEY ARE SELLING.

JUST BECAUSE THE ADA PICTURES LOOK PRETTY DOESN'T MEAN THERE AREN'T BIG ISSUES WITH THE SETUPS (HUGE LAYERS OF SUBSTRATE TRAPPING ORGANIC BY PRODUCTS)

SO CALLED "CONTAINER WATER GARDENS" ******WILL NOT WORK****** UNLESS THEY ARE INSTALLED EXACTLY LIKE AQUARIUMS.

Use your brain people. QUESTION things that are obviously way out of place and don't fit. ***REALLY*** QUESTION Marc's insistence that we only "OOH AND AAAH" the pictures rather than pointing out the BLATANTLY obvious issues.

I see people ripped off and fed misleading and misunderstood information in this hobby constantly. I encourage everyone to be skeptical, use their brains, and question methods and techniques. When someone says, "Don't question the user/company/culture because they posted pretty pictures," REALLY be skeptical and use your brain.


----------



## wintermute

Lou, I agree w/ you whole-heartedly, so let me caveat my oooohhhhing and aaaaahhhhing.

1) I would never spend money on ADA equipment. The mark-up for buying the brand name if just g-d ridiculous.

2) No matter what, you have to admit it's pretty

3) With those biotopes, I would NEVER put any type of animal into that type of situation. I just like the idea of having a potted plant set-up for emersed plants instead of terrestrial plants. for example, tell me a potted anubias nana planted in good soil in it's emersed form, maybe on a window sill, would not be cool. plus it wouldn't be abusive to the plant, as long as you re-pot as it gets bigger.


----------



## Urkevitz

Who says you have to keep goldfish or any fish in those container gardens?

Who cares about how much ADA charges? Don't buy from them.

I think everyone here is smart enough to know that you don't need ADA products for a successful tank.


----------



## wintermute

Urkevitz said:


> Who says you have to keep goldfish or any fish in those container gardens?
> 
> Who cares about how much ADA charges? Don't buy from them.
> 
> I think everyone here is smart enough to know that you don't need ADA products for a successful tank.



What he said!


----------



## Jackfrost

I think that everyone in this hobby agrees that Amano has brought much to the world of planted aquaria. 

He is very talented and creative.

I own all his books, and they have provided me with lots of insight into aquascaping and the use of backgrounds and plants.

However, we must also agree that he is a very successful business man.

His clientèle is for the most part large corporations and very rich individuals that seek to have a "piece" of Amano in their environment. These are companies and people that for the most part don't care how much it costs, as long as it looks good and they can say at their next party that they own an Amano aquarium.

Most of his income is derived from that market. That is the market he caters too. Price and quality is adjusted and dictated by that market. Selling a handcrafted Amano return tube, (one that could be copied in China for pennies), for $10 would just appear "cheap" in that market. Put a price of $50 for it and all of a sudden "we got game" !

Presentation and Marketing is everything.

There is also a number of people, as in any hobby, that believe that owning an ADA product is a "must have". These are the folks that are on the outside of the mainstream business market. They are still a good income source for ADA but not their primary market.

These are the people that want to own an ADA product, for whatever reason. 

Thats fine too... but question the fact that even though you are buying a quality product, you are paying a very high premium price.

Once again, that is because you are paying the price structure that was not designed for your/our end of the market.

Amano is a business man and a hobbyist. He has to be. His facilities in Japan and his product line requires him to do so. 

So... if you MUST have that ADA product by all means go out and get it, we don't want your Karma upset. But please, don't try to rationalize your purchase. Impulse is impulse, and "must have" products at any cost are the dreams of Marketing departments worldwide.

And please, no more attacks on Amano and his product line. Accept him for what he is. A successfully Artist and a successful business man.

I would just settle for a trip to Japan to see his wonderful tanks up close. I think I would learn more from looking than buying.

Nick


----------



## GDominy

Okay lets steer the thread back on track, this thread is not here to discuss costs or the evils of water gardening, we are here to dicuss Marc's trip to ADA, so lets re-focus on that.

The arguing stops here or I will start editing non-relivent posts.

Marc, please continue to share your experience with us, this thread contains a lot of interesting stuff.


----------



## Hypancistrus

That's quite a rant Lou. Jeeeeez. :icon_conf 

Sorry I opened the worm can.

Jackfrost, that's what I suspected... they are a service who does big companies and people who want a service-managed aquarium rather than a self-managed one. My take on them is they are the "rolex" of aquarium equipment. 

Getting back to the pics, I wonder how long those tanks have been established?


----------



## Steve Hampton

Excellent pictures Marc. Thank you so much from all of us that only dream of being able to view the ADA Headquarters in person.

For those wishing to know more details of how Amano does it, you need to join the AGA and order the DVD from the 2004 AGA convention (he visited the US and was the key speaker). Amano details how he gets the inspiration, how he plans, plants, and maintains his aquariums. He also describes his use of metal halide lighting.

Thanks again Marc and please don't consider the lone loud voice of a complainer...we sincerely appreciate your efforts and time it took for you to unselfishly share.


----------



## Marc

*Thanks Everyone...*

Enjoy the pictures! 
Someone asked for dimensions of his tanks. Im still looking...


----------



## PJAN

Marc said:


> Enjoy the pictures!
> Someone asked for dimensions of his tanks. Im still looking...


Yep. I did.
I am going to replace my big tank (it's too big for my living room, see photo-gallery) for a smaller one. I like the dimensions of those ada-tanks. So that's why.

Gr. PJAN


----------



## rwong2k

I checked out the prices for the lily pipes and his line of canister filters, wow they're quite $$$ but you have to admit they sure look really nice (and i thought eheim's top line of canister filters were $$$)

although something I am considering purchasing soon is maybe those lily pipe tube things =)


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Thanks a bunch Marc for sharing your pics and experiences w/ all of us. It seems like something inspirational & positive doesn't take long for someone to put a negative spin on things. I've got 2 of the 3 Amano Nature Aquarium books and know that I can't afford his products, but I can surely afford to look at some of the most immaculate and well aquascaped tanks in the world.
It's like getting an inside peak into a Ferrari factory, sure most can't even think of owning one, and they're surely more sensible automotive purchases out there, but hey, why not get a look into "their" world, if only through our PC~Hope you keep the pics up, so other apreciative members can enjoy them


----------



## Nolan W.

I really like how the tanks have no tops. They look so delicate. I wonder if they have problems with the fish jumping out. I'd love to have one of those if we didn't live right next to the San Andreas Fault, lol! Being near one of those things in an earthquake is something I don't want to imagine...


----------



## spleen93

Hi guys ... long time lurker, first (or second) time poster.

I read Japanese and I was reading the brochure on the containers that Marc so kindly posted.

It's interesting because the plants come as matched sets to the containers (the S plant sets match the S containers, etc. etc.) and the sets come complete with "biosoil". For the larger sets, they also come with "minnows" (but the smaller sets come with none). I can see the market for turnkey gardens like this though I have to admit that the prices are outlandish. I certainly wouldn't be paying these prices. 

But the photos ARE gorgeous ...

Spleen


----------



## Marc

Pjan- this tank is 180x60x60 (cm)








The other smaller tanks are about 1-2 feet shorter in length. Taller tanks are same size as the small tanks but 1 foot taller.
No dimensions on the big wide tanks with the sumps.


----------



## fishfry

Great pictures Marc, thanks for sharing!! Ignore the haters, nobody can deny the pure beauty of the ADA gallery....even if it may just be a front to steal our money and deceive us all </sarcasm>


----------



## locus

I'm moving to Niigata just so I can visit ADA HQ every week and stare at the pretty tanks 

Seriously... great photos, it is interesting to note that many of these aquascapes have appeared in recent issues of AquaJournal - you get a good idea about the work that goes into preparing these aquascapes for photographing by comparing Marc's photos with the ones in AJ, the scapes just get that much better!


----------



## PJAN

Marc said:


> Pjan- this tank is 180x60x60 (cm)
> The other smaller tanks are about 1-2 feet shorter in length. Taller tanks are same size as the small tanks but 1 foot taller.
> No dimensions on the big wide tanks with the sumps.


Thanks Marc roud: 

Still a big tank, I wouldn't have thought that.

Well, I have an idea now and will discuss the new tank with the local tank-manufacturer. Main problem is the lack of "safety-strips" on top. 
W'll see what's possible.

Gr.PJAN


----------



## Rolo

Marc, I may be wrong, but aren't the largest tanks in the ADA gallery the 180x60x60? Those larger tanks with THREE metal halides look like the 180cm ones. The tank in your last post with TWO pendents looks like a 120x45x45. I've been trying to eyeball dimensions onto all these tanks myself and _thought_ I had it down... :icon_conf Again, I may be wrong!

Thanks Marc for putting up these pics!


----------



## PJAN

Rolo said:


> Marc, I may be wrong, but aren't the largest tanks in the ADA gallery the 180x60x60? Those larger tanks with THREE metal halides look like the 180cm ones. The tank in your last post with TWO pendents looks like a 120x45x45. I've been trying to eyeball dimensions onto all these tanks myself and _thought_ I had it down... :icon_conf Again, I may be wrong!
> 
> Thanks Marc for putting up these pics!


Yeah, that's why I asked Marc. If we just knew the size of the pendants...

My first guess was 120 x 60 x 50 for "the favorite tank". The height must be 60 cm, according to the little fish. 

Mmm, time for another look at the pictures with a calculator?

Gr. PJAN


----------



## StLouisGuy

First, Marc, thanks for posting the pics to allow so many of us to see tanks we would usually not have the opportunity to see. To me these tanks are an inspiration and maybe even something to try and copy or at least learn from. I didn't seem to be born with much in the area of artistic talent so I can only hope I might possibly absorb some from contact with real talent, be it through observation of photographs. As to the cost of anything, what I do remember of Economics says that you should basically charge as much as you can get away with. 
As for the tanks themselves, one thing that I noticed was something that's not there. Not a single tank had a background of any kind. No matter if the tank was against the wall, backed up to a stairway, or where ever, no backgrounds. That would seem to be something about the tanks that would be easy and dare I say, free, to copy. Any thoughts about backgrounds or lack there of?


----------



## PJAN

StLouisGuy said:


> Any thoughts about backgrounds or lack there of?


That one I know :icon_bigg 

Amano creates his own backgrounds with lighting from the back with special lamps. So he can create white, blue, blue-white, black. So he's free to choose what works best for the ultimate picture of a certain tank.

Second, glass is very easy to clean. No problem when there are algae. 

Gr. PJAN


----------



## Urkevitz

The lack of a background works really well on his tanks, it makes the hardscapes pop. My tank is right up against the wall, with the background off the light reflected off the plants hits the wall and gives the tank a sort of a yellow/green glow.


----------



## Marc

Rolo said:


> Marc, I may be wrong, but aren't the largest tanks in the ADA gallery the 180x60x60? Those larger tanks with THREE metal halides look like the 180cm ones. The tank in your last post with TWO pendents looks like a 120x45x45. I've been trying to eyeball dimensions onto all these tanks myself and _thought_ I had it down... :icon_conf Again, I may be wrong!
> 
> Thanks Marc for putting up these pics!





PJAN said:


> Yeah, that's why I asked Marc. If we just knew the size of the pendants...
> 
> My first guess was 120 x 60 x 50 for "the favorite tank". The height must be 60 cm, according to the little fish.
> 
> Mmm, time for another look at the pictures with a calculator?
> 
> Gr. PJAN


Rolo and PJAN- I have his 2004 brochure and I could be the one mistaken. Its all in japanes so its hard to translate alot of things. I'll scan the page in and let you guys take a look. He has alot of different size tanks. I'll scan the MH section also so you can distinguish the different sizes.


----------



## Marc

PJAN said:


> That one I know :icon_bigg
> 
> Amano creates his own backgrounds with lighting from the back with special lamps. So he can create white, blue, blue-white, black. So he's free to choose what works best for the ultimate picture of a certain tank.
> 
> Second, glass is very easy to clean. No problem when there are algae.
> 
> Gr. PJAN


I do know this though- the lack of a backgroung is one big reason why ADA puts all their hoses on the side. Its because when you look through the front of the glass, you cant see the equipment on the side due to the light reflection. Try it when you look at your tank- wave your hand on the left or right side and look through the front of your tank.


----------



## Raul-7

Great pictures Marc. roud: Did you buy any ADA merchandise while you were there? And did you not see the gigantic 6000L tank at the ADA HQ?


----------



## aquaphish

Really apreciate the pictures!!!! ?Seems you enjoyed your trip. 

BTW I don't complain when I see a Mercedes a Jaguar BMW Rolls Royce or any other expensive car going down the same road. I just know I can't afford it!!! I just admire and dream!!! 

Still dreaming of the great pictures!!!


----------



## locus

A few of the tank sizes (from Aquajournal)

(WxDxH)
Pic 15 - 90x45x60cm
Pic 16 - 180x60x60cm
Pic 19 - 90x45x60cm
Pic 20 - 180x60x60cm - I believe Oliver Knott (Plantella) can be seen working on this tank @ ADA's Training Day in issue 112 of AJ!


----------



## PJAN

locus said:


> A few of the tank sizes (from Aquajournal)
> 
> (WxDxH)
> Pic 15 - 90x45x60cm
> Pic 16 - 180x60x60cm
> Pic 19 - 90x45x60cm
> Pic 20 - 180x60x60cm - I believe Oliver Knott (Plantella) can be seen working on this tank @ ADA's Training Day in issue 112 of AJ!


Thanks roud: 

To give you all an update (Marc's pictures inspired me !) :

The local shop (builds tanks also) was not very pleased with the idea to build a tank without those glass-safety strips. The glass is bending without it.
As you can see on the pictures : the ADA tanks are all glass and no strips on top.

But he was interested in this project and after some calculation with special software, it should be ok using 12 mm thick glass in stead of normal 8 mm. 
But at my own risk.... :icon_conf 
The maximum dimension is about 120 x 60 x 60 cm. Less length was better so 90x45x60 is no problem. But that's a little too small for me so I wil order 120x60x50.

Well, keep you all updated... Tank should be ready within 3 weeks....O, boy, where's my swimming outfit :icon_bigg 

Gr. PJAN


----------



## Clownknife

There are days that pics like this totally inspire me. Other days they frustrate me (algae days) because I don't think I will ever get my tank to look that nice.


----------



## Marc

Clownknife said:


> There are days that pics like this totally inspire me. Other days they frustrate me (algae days) because I don't think I will ever get my tank to look that nice.


OH brother how i totaly agree with you.


----------



## RedStarFishy

Very beautiful pictures, I love how crisp and clear everything is. You can see the details perfectly. 

I have one question. I noticed in a few tanks there was grass on the bottom of the tanks. Do you know what type it was? thanks!


----------



## Marc

RedStarFishy said:


> Very beautiful pictures, I love how crisp and clear everything is. You can see the details perfectly.
> 
> I have one question. I noticed in a few tanks there was grass on the bottom of the tanks. Do you know what type it was? thanks!


Honestly i dont know- maybe someone else knows? 
There are many different species of hair grass and all of them look similar.


----------



## locus

RedStarFishy said:


> I have one question. I noticed in a few tanks there was grass on the bottom of the tanks. Do you know what type it was? thanks!


Amano seems to be using Lilaeopsis sp. a lot these days


----------



## Marc

Raul-7 said:


> Great pictures Marc. roud: Did you buy any ADA merchandise while you were there? And did you not see the gigantic 6000L tank at the ADA HQ?


Raul- i was not able to by anything, i didnt know if they sold supplies at their gallery- i didnt ask. I should have!
here is a picture of the biggest tank. It was at the main entrance.


----------



## RedStarFishy

locus said:


> Amano seems to be using Lilaeopsis sp. a lot these days


oh thanks! its is beautiful, i love how it looks like its soft and fluffy and dancing.  i'm gonna look into it for my tank now!


----------



## bastalker

Love the pics Marc!! Amano is the man for sure! Next time ya wanna venture over there, how bout givin me a call, cause i wanna go! :wink: 

Luv the Av as well! roud:


----------



## grungefreek

Those Co2 diffusers he uses, are they a sintered (spelling) glass diffuser? Cause it looks a lot like sintered glass funnels we use in chemistry labs. So maybe thats a new DIY idea, sintered glass funnels as co2 diffusers.


----------



## jsenske

That giant tank someone referred to is actually at Amano's residence. It is 13 feet long, 5 feet tall and 5 feet wide. It has been running for almost 5 years now.


----------



## Hypancistrus

grungefreek said:


> Those Co2 diffusers he uses, are they a sintered (spelling) glass diffuser?


I think they are. I think they are basically the same thing as these:

http://www.aquarium.lu/fr/dept_46.html

I suspect the ADA ones are hand blown though.


----------



## Marc

bastalker said:


> Love the pics Marc!! Amano is the man for sure! Next time ya wanna venture over there, how bout givin me a call, cause i wanna go! :wink:
> 
> Luv the Av as well! roud:


Thank you  Your avatar is funny! :hihi:


----------



## kzr750r1

Marc I found this string from a link off of Scolly's tank build string. Thankyou soooooo much for sharing your visit with us.


----------



## rubenstein

Great Pictures Marc!

I am super new to the planted aquarium idea....Only recently heard of Co2 pumps, remember only a vague sales pitch for power compacts, and haven't the foggiest idea about substrates! But these pictures! oh my goodness.
They are so exciting! Currently I am experimenting with Apongetons in a commmunity tank, hopefully one day I can mimic something as green and lush as those pictures you shared with us.


----------



## Marc

kzr750r1 said:


> Marc I found this string from a link off of Scolly's tank build string. Thankyou soooooo much for sharing your visit with us.


Your Welcome! Im glad everyone enjoys the pictures!



rubenstein said:


> Great Pictures Marc!
> 
> I am super new to the planted aquarium idea....Only recently heard of Co2 pumps, remember only a vague sales pitch for power compacts, and haven't the foggiest idea about substrates! But these pictures! oh my goodness.
> They are so exciting! Currently I am experimenting with Apongetons in a commmunity tank, hopefully one day I can mimic something as green and lush as those pictures you shared with us.


I looked up Apongetons and it looks like a great plant! I love community tanks because for me personally fish just make everything better-If i had a large tank i would definitly put in as many species as i could! Are you planning to get more plants or start setting up some equipment for your tank? Anubias would be great for your tank as well- very hardy and dont require very much light or co2.

Amano has truely mastered the hobby- Its almost scary! When i was looking at his tanks, i didnt see ANY algae and i didnt even see any dead leaves, nothing. His fish seemed well fed also- they just mind their own business while you stare into the tanks.

He makes it look so easy!


----------



## PJAN

Hello Marc,

Update my DIY Amano-tank :

Tank & cabinet are ready.
Tank is 120 x 60Wx50 H (cm) 
All glass.

I am busy with plumbing and making transparent lily-pipes etc.

So far it looks very good. 
I will post pictures as soon as I am finished with the last details ( lily-pipe, lighting etc.).

Gr. PJAN


----------



## Marc

PJAN said:


> Hello Marc,
> 
> Update my DIY Amano-tank :
> 
> Tank & cabinet are ready.
> Tank is 120 x 60Wx50 H (cm)
> All glass.
> 
> I am busy with plumbing and making transparent lily-pipes etc.
> 
> So far it looks very good.
> I will post pictures as soon as I am finished with the last details ( lily-pipe, lighting etc.).
> 
> Gr. PJAN


Hello Gr. PJAN,

WOW cant wait to see pictures! PM me when you complete your project! I dont want to miss this!


----------



## PJAN

Hello Marc,

Well, today I put for the first time water in it. So far so good.
The glass (all glass - no safety stripes) is not bending much and ok (12 mm glass).
And I made a transparent surface-skimmer for the inlet of the filter.
In- and outlet are made of transparent acryl tubes. Not glass and this stuff can't break !

Maybe tomorrow the first pictures.

In order (LFS) :
- transparent hose
- silver-grey hanging lights ( I have now black and will swap it).
In 1 - 2 weeks (??) al the equipment will be finished.

Problems :
the floor is not exactly horizontal : the length is ok but the width (back-front) has a 5 mm difference... Mmmm, should I do something about it?

But so far it looks very good & amano-like.

Gr. PJAN

I will PM you when I start the DIY-Amano project thread.


----------



## Marc

5mm difference? so the bottom piece is not a perfect 90Deg at all 4 corners?

5mm can make a big difference especially if the tank is long- it could cause the other end to be potentially off- Could you snap a picture for us? It may not be a problem if everythings fits up okay. Do you think the 5mm causes any stress on the structure?


----------



## PJAN

Well, actually everything is perfect, *except the floor*  

Some fast shots of the DIY project (work in progress...) :










The problem is that the floor is not perfect from back - front.
As shown in this picture :










The difference is about 5 mm.

The cabinet has a solid bottom and is placed on the carpet.
Here's a picture of the tank & cabinet :










What I could do is :
lift the front of the cabinet with a piece of wood, thickness 5 mm.
But I am afraid it will stress the cabinet? Al the weight would be on the back (small piece) and the plank in front. Perhaps the cabinet will bow?

I don't think the tank is stressed. It is very solid an 5 mm difference is not much. It is just a, ehhh, cosmetic thing.

Gr. PJAN 

( the tank is looking not green in real : photo white balance is way-off ).
( ahh, look at the grey cabinet :icon_bigg , looking familiar :icon_bigg )


----------



## GTApuffgal

*ADA Gallery Pictures*

OMG Pjan that is going to be a stunner when you get through with it... 

Floor schmoor, HURRY UP AND PLANT THAT THING! :wink: 

Kathy


----------



## wantplantsnotwork

Is the back edge on a tack strip for the carpet?


----------



## Marc

Gr. PJAN- I understand what you mean now. If you do decide to put a piece of wood under the front to lift it up 5mm- I think you should put a solid piece of shim down the whole length of the cabinet. This way the weight is evenly distributed. Or what could also work is a piece of carpet- you can tuck it under the front of the tank and it will still provide some support. Of course keep it hidden.

Im very excited when you get us more information about your set up~!


----------



## PJAN

Thanks for the already nice comments. I am waiting for some stuff, as said (silver lamp e.g. and transparent hose) but I am going to find some good substrate today ( or mix it myself) and start to decorate the tank.
In a week (?) the tank will be fully planted.

@ Waterplantsnotwork : There is a tiny tack strip present but it is very thin and not 5 mm (??). Mmm, I will investigate this floor now carefully, but my "old" tank had the same problem on this spot. Thanks for the tip roud: 

@ Marc , well a smal piece of carpet is perhaps better indeed. 

Ok, work to do.....

Gr. PJAN


----------



## creepingdeath086

*damn*

wow, these are quite simply put; the bes aquariums i have ever seen roud:


----------



## Marc

From looking at the pictures again. It seems like Amano before starting to plant already knows what he wants to do with his tank. I noticed that he uses different substrate depending on what he plants. Moss, crypts etc- he uses a light colored substrate and with stems or rooted plants he uses a deeper darker substrate. Just an observation :tongue:


----------



## scolley

Marc - if you are inclined to believe him, you need to watch his presentation, as mentioned in this post. His claim is that, if indirectly, that he is always planning where a tank will go from the start.


----------



## Marc

scolley said:


> Marc - if you are inclined to believe him, you need to watch his presentation, as mentioned in this post. His claim is that, if indirectly, that he is always planning where a tank will go from the start.


Oh I dont doubt it for a second- He just amazes me with all the experience he has in the hobby. His understanding of how certian plants grow under different conditions definitly helps him vision the future of his tanks.


----------



## Acei

I'm speechless... What I wouldn't give for a fishroom like that... :drool:


----------



## Marc

crazy huh? :icon_bigg


----------



## alabaster

Hi everyone! GREAT pictures Marc. I enjoy looking through the pics because every one of the tanks are unique. The scope of Amano's work is amazing. I agree with whoever attributed the high costs to Japanese culture--Americans for the most part are all about saving money and buying the cheapest workable stuff, while the Japanese are all about spending it on high quality goods. However, I don't deny that marketing and image has a lot to do with the prices also. 

I have a question for you Marc: did you get a good look at the filters? I'm considering buying one to go with my ADA tank. What do they look like and how do they function? Are they made out of stainless steel? Do they use the same size tubing as normal canisters? Any idea what size tanks each of the three filter models they sell at ADG.com correspond to? Please share any insight you have into these filters, as I'm very interested in them. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Marc

alabaster said:


> I have a question for you Marc: did you get a good look at the filters? I'm considering buying one to go with my ADA tank. What do they look like and how do they function? Are they made out of stainless steel? Do they use the same size tubing as normal canisters? Any idea what size tanks each of the three filter models they sell at ADG.com correspond to? Please share any insight you have into these filters, as I'm very interested in them. Thanks a lot!


Well they are stainless steel canister filters and use the same size tubing as normal canisters. Honestly I do not know what the flow rates are of the 3 different models. I've heard from several people that ADG will be more than happy to give you detailed specs. Sorry I cant be of anymore help. Glad you enjoyed the pictures!

Marc


----------



## figgy

WOW, Marc, many thanks! I think I'll have to get a book with pics like that so I can STARE for hours and hopefully soak in some design sense.

And thank you Scully for the catalog link. I could maybe afford those little 30cm cubes...

Finally, after all my complaining about my plug-ugly eheim green tubes! Lily pipes! 


WHERE to get lily pipes????? :icon_idea 

figs


----------



## Marc

figgy said:


> WHERE to get lily pipes????? :icon_idea
> 
> figs


No problem Figgy- Check out Gregs site!
http://aquascapingjournals.com/journals/diy_lillie_pipes.htm
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19735
He is a member on this board, "IUnknown"


----------



## Momotaro

Hey! An ADA filter with Eheim double tap connectors! Was that a shot from ADA, Marc? 

If so, Amano really knows quality! roud: 

Mike


----------



## frmrreefr

Any idea as to what the canister is to the left of the filter? Is it a Co2 bottle of some sort? Maybe a reactor? I tell you what...if I had the money I would definitely buy Mr. Amano's products, they SCREAM QUALITY! It's almost like looking at a Faberge egg or Murano glass....


----------



## Marc

Momotaro said:


> Hey! An ADA filter with Eheim double tap connectors! Was that a shot from ADA, Marc?
> 
> If so, Amano really knows quality! roud:
> 
> Mike


Yep thats a shot from ADA.



frmrreefr said:


> Any idea as to what the canister is to the left of the filter? Is it a Co2 bottle of some sort? Maybe a reactor? I tell you what...if I had the money I would definitely buy Mr. Amano's products, they SCREAM QUALITY! It's almost like looking at a Faberge egg or Murano glass....



Its a co2 tank. Most of Amano's tanks use glass diffusers for co2. The timer behind the co2 tank is what I think is a solenoid with a built in timer.


----------



## figgy

Thanks for the lily pipe source but nice as Greg's are, they're still $70.00...


Dangitt, I've got stuff like that all over the lab--I'm going to go root through the glassware graveyard to see what I can find!

Fig


----------



## awrieger

Does anyone know what sort of rocks he uses?

I'm ordering a 120x60x60 tank and want to emulate this layout. Just rocks and grass. Is that green algae or moss on the rocks?


----------



## Marc

Hey Fig- Its still alot but its half the price as ADA. I've seen them first hand and they look great!

I have a buddy whos trying to make some right now. I'll see how they turn out.


figgy said:


> Thanks for the lily pipe source but nice as Greg's are, they're still $70.00...
> 
> 
> Dangitt, I've got stuff like that all over the lab--I'm going to go root through the glassware graveyard to see what I can find!
> 
> Fig


----------



## Marc

awrieger said:


> Does anyone know what sort of rocks he uses?
> 
> I'm ordering a 120x60x60 tank and want to emulate this layout. Just rocks and grass. Is that green algae or moss on the rocks?


Its some sort of algae. Not sure about the rocks.


----------



## StUk_In_AfRiKa

Wow amazing tanks, thanks for posting pics. The tank posted on this page is one of my favorites; calm, simple and relaxing. And wow that glass is thick!


----------



## frmrreefr

Man, I have got to get me some of that there ADA stuff, WHOOWEE it looks mighty purdy all shiny and stuff!



























Ok I'll stop now....


----------



## Tompy

ADA Products are SNAKE OIL.

Don't believe me? ADA filters are built with "Plocher Energy System" devices.

Take a look at what this is: http://www.plocher.de/eng/technology.htm

It's the biggest fraud I've ever seen in the industry.

I am more and more convinced the nice tanks (which can be done with equipment costing 1000x less) are there to get more rich suckers to part with their $$$.

For God's sake even Jeff Senske who runs an ADA dealership says



> _"From my experience with the SUPER JET filters, there is not really any performance benefit to them. It is purely an aesthetics issue- they are cool looking. If I were putting a filter into a cabinet stand, I would personally choose an Eheim anyday. Also, ADA filters are pretty sensitive to Hz/ electrical current- issues. They are really made for Japan. ADA does not even export them normally. They have only sent them to me because I special requested them and agreed to take my chances with them.
> 
> I will likely not offer them in the future- only on a special order/request basis._"


Even Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine, who lets Amano write an article now in every issue, always adds at the end of all his articles, _"Note: The hardware itemized above represents the author's specific choices; equivalent results may be obtained with other equipment and accessories--Eds."_


----------



## random_alias

The information you provided does not justify or support such a broad statement as to say that ADA products are snake oil. So their lily pipes in fact do not allow water to pass through them? Their show tanks contain fake water? Their soil is actually painted styrofoam? 

You can't take one example of a product, hold it up and then say that this means that the entire line is snake oil. Make a specific statement that is true. Don't make generalized, broad, sweeping, powerful statements and overextend yourself or your reasoning. 

To say that ADA products are snake oil is a lie. You are incorrect.

Now, to say the Plocher technology is snake oil, well ...  ... that's for another thread. "we make ecology profitable"


----------



## Marc

*This Is Not A Debate Thread!*

*I posted these pictures for people to enjoy. I'll answer any questions that people may have about the pictures or questions about products that I saw there. PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A DEBATE!!!! This thread is not about if we should use ADA products!!!!!*


----------



## Momotaro

*Agreed!*



> I posted these pictures for people to enjoy. I'll answer any questions that people may have about the pictures or questions about products that I saw there. PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A DEBATE!!!! This thread is not about if we should use ADA products!!!!!


Right on! roud: 

Why, why, why is it that every single time someone mentions an Amano product on this board a slew of people have to jump on the thread and disparage the product by stating that they are too expensive or you can get something else for less or build something for half? 

A wonderful thread going sour. :icon_frow 

Mike


----------



## Hypancistrus

Money / expense seems to be an extremely sensitive area of discussion. From my own perspective some of the most heated debates (to actually require threadlocking or deleting... not just on this forum) revolve around more expensive equipment or options vs. less expensive equipment or options.


----------



## scolley

OK - you can take the Amano/money debate here, and we can get back to business on Marc's thread.


----------



## Overfloater

I just revisited this thread because the pictures are amazing. Amano has experience and it shows in his work. I am dreaming of sitting on one of those benches for hours on end. roud:


----------



## harsaphes

Rich sucker here!
Im ooohhhhing and aaahhhhhing.
Im putting tubs of water outside on my deck....oohhhhhh
Im going to have a stainless filter on my tank to match my fridge!..wow!
Im ordering all my soil, lights, ferts ect from him!......
Hey, he is sending me some rocks from his front yard!...of course im paying!
Im going wild.....I cant help myself...........
:icon_bigg


----------



## yoko

I have to ask, what do you drive? :tongue:


----------



## Marc

yoko said:


> I have to ask, what do you drive? :tongue:


Not a Turbo Civic! LOL


----------



## yoko

*suuuure*

Whatever you say :biggrin:


----------



## ianiwane

I can attest that Marc does not drive a turbo civic, lol.


----------



## yoko

All-motor Civic??? :icon_lol:


----------



## Marc

yoko said:


> All-motor Civic??? :icon_lol:



I used to drive a turbo integra but then someone stole it. I use this host in some car forums....and here. Ive upgraded my car since then :hihi:


----------



## yoko

Marc said:


> I used to drive a turbo integra but then someone stole it. I use this host in some car forums....and here. Ive upgraded my car since then :hihi:


Ugh that sucks  Were you parked outside?

STi?? :biggrin:


----------



## CmLaracy

What are the tall grasses in the back of tanks 14, 15, and 20? I really need to 
know, I'm making an Iwagumi with HC, Hairgrass and some Seiryu rocks, and I 
would love to have a thing of tall grass in the back, but I think thin leafed Java 
Fern would ruin the grassy, thin, hair-like look.

Now I know that you can't get Dwarf hairgrass to grow that high, unless Amano 
pumped that ****e with some roids... hehe :hihi: 

So, what plant is that? please? :help: :wink: :hihi:


----------



## MrBlackThumb

I was just wondering what kind of fertilization method ADA uses. Did you ask if they use EI?


----------



## thatguy

MrBlackThumb said:


> I was just wondering what kind of fertilization method ADA uses. Did you ask if they use EI?


they use the ada line of ferts, id guess they follow the ada method of dosing, whatever that is. 

marc drives a bently, big ol pimp.


----------



## Hypancistrus

MrBlackThumb said:


> I was just wondering what kind of fertilization method ADA uses. Did you ask if they use EI?


He uses his own line of products. If you buy his books or pick up an issue of _Tropical Fish Hobbyist_, or pick up an English version of his catalog, he lists which of his products he doses for every tank pictured.

Usually it's Brighty Step 2 (trace mix) + Brighty K (potassium) (dosed daily), and ECA (iron) (dosed weekly). Occasionally he'll also dose Brighty Lights (nitrogen + phosphorous, dosed daily). I would guess he doses Lights on tanks that don't get a lot of shade coverage from stem plans, as well as very low fish loads. I notice that he uses it on virtually all of his tanks where the primary plant used is hairgrass.

As to what levels of iron, nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, and traces are added with each dose, no one knows. Someone tried to ask over on the APC forums and ADA refused to answer.


----------



## Marc

CmLaracy said:


> What are the tall grasses in the back of tanks 14, 15, and 20? I really need to
> know, I'm making an Iwagumi with HC, Hairgrass and some Seiryu rocks, and I
> would love to have a thing of tall grass in the back, but I think thin leafed Java
> Fern would ruin the grassy, thin, hair-like look.
> 
> Now I know that you can't get Dwarf hairgrass to grow that high, unless Amano
> pumped that ****e with some roids... hehe :hihi:
> 
> So, what plant is that? please? :help: :wink: :hihi:


can you tell me what page thats on?


----------



## hamstermann

Mods Please Delete this


----------

