# Grobbins 75 Gallon Rainbowfish Tank (Updated filtration Dec 2020)



## Grobbins48

Hi Everyone-

I am converting over from African Cichlids to a planted rainbowfish community tank, and wanted to share a bit of what I have been doing, as well as welcome feedback and hope to continue to learn in the process. I have been keeping fish for well over 15 years at this point, but made the splash into planted tanks with a 29 gallon 6 months ago. Anyways, this is about the 55 gallon, so here are some of the specs.

*Tank: Marineland 55 gallon with custom build stand (stand 4 years old now...)

Filtration: SunSun 303B canister with a SunSun 603 pre-filter canister with the mechanical filtration using spray bar, SunSun 304B with lava rock and drilled out spray bar.
Filter Media: 2L of MarinePure Balls and 2L of Matrix. 

Substrate: Black Diamond Blasting Sand, little less than 2 bags (~80 lbs)

CO2: DIY cerges reactor, 10 lb tank, running off Aquatek regulator supplying two tanks at 40 PSI. Dwyer flow meter running ~25 cc/min

Ferts: Dry dosing from GLA, Macros 1x weekly frontloading (calculated for 45 gallons), Micros 3x weekly of DIY custom mix (from Burr740) for 

Weekly Dose (ppm)- (This is not updated- see most recent dosing sheet in other posts)

NO3	25
N	5.65
K	39.05
Mg	8
S	18.7
PO4	8
P	2.61
dGH	1.84

Fe	0.6
Mn	0.15
B	0.15
Zn	0.15
Mo	0.00525
Cu	0.006
Ni	0.0015


Lighting: Beamswork DA FSPEC 48' and Beamswork DHL 6500K 1W 48'. 105 PAR at substrate with glass lids on

Plants:


staurogyne repens
micranthemum monte carlo 
Helanthium bolivianum "angustifolius"
Myriophyllum Red Stem
Limnophila Aromatica "Mini"
Pogostemon Kimberley
Clinopodium brownie
Limnophila Indica (Ambulia)
Limnophila Rugosa
Bacopa Colorata
Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan'

Stocking: 

7 Boesmani Rainbow 
6 Turquoise Rainbow 
3 Roseline Sharks (dennison barbs)
5 Elegan Corries
8 Otocinclus catfish
1 Apistogramma Steel Blue
18 Cherry Barbs 


*

Here are some photos. After draining the tank, I scooped out as much sand as I could, finishing it with a Dry/Wet shop vac. Then After much washing of the BDBS, I added it in. Wanting a mound in the back right, I used some plastic supports I created to hold the sand in place. One thought is, that is all sand under the rocks. Should I have used lava rock first to build some height? Do I need to be worries about gas pockets? Feedback appreciated.

Then time for the initial hardscape. Plants will still be a few weeks, and I'll post my thoughts on those when I get to that point!

Thanks for those who read and comment, and I am looking forward to some good discussion and feedback with this tank!


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## Greggz

You had me at Rainbows.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Subscribed.


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## ChrisX

Good start. I think those wavemakers will make all the stems lean over. I have those sun sun wave makers and they are too strong for my 50g.


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## Grobbins48

ChrisX said:


> Good start. I think those wavemakers will make all the stems lean over. I have those sun sun wave makers and they are too strong for my 50g.


I actually did have that worry. Maybe run just one of them? The other issue is they are INSANELY inconsistent, meaning they don't always push water. I think it might be something with catching the 60 hertz cycle wrong and spinning the propeller backwards.... I mean, they are really cheap.

Any thoughts for alternative flow? The SunSun is enough filtration with the bio media I have, but not nearly enough flow.


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> I actually did have that worry. Maybe run just one of them? The other issue is they are INSANELY inconsistent, meaning they don't always push water. I think it might be something with catching the 60 hertz cycle wrong and spinning the propeller backwards.... I mean, they are really cheap.
> 
> Any thoughts for alternative flow? The SunSun is enough filtration with the bio media I have, but not nearly enough flow.


I have a couple of those sun sun's, and when they are running right, they put out a lot of concentrated flow.

If you think you need more flow, I would look at the Koriala Evolution series. A much more broad gentle flow than the Sun Sun's.

And IMO flow is sometimes a bit misunderstood. You want good flow, but you don't want plants waving around frantically bending over. It's a fine line between getting it correct and total mayhem.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> You had me at Rainbows.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing where this goes.
> 
> Subscribed.


Thanks! Your tank has also been an inspiration both on here and your videos on YouTube! Really helped me decide planted rainbows are where it's at!

Bump:


Greggz said:


> If you think you need more flow, I would look at the Koriala Evolution series. A much more broad gentle flow than the Sun Sun's.


I'll check those out. Broad gentle flow sounds much better than what these SunSun's are putting out. For a 55, what would be a better size? I see some are over 1,000 GPH, which is a lot of flow for a 55 that will be planted IMO, depending on the strength of the flow.


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## ChrisX

Grobbins48 said:


> I actually did have that worry. Maybe run just one of them? The other issue is they are INSANELY inconsistent, meaning they don't always push water. I think it might be something with catching the 60 hertz cycle wrong and spinning the propeller backwards.... I mean, they are really cheap.
> 
> Any thoughts for alternative flow? The SunSun is enough filtration with the bio media I have, but not nearly enough flow.


My 50g is similar to a 55g. I found that with a 6" spray bar mounted on the side, the water movement was increased dramatically. You probably won't need the wavemakers.


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## Grobbins48

ChrisX said:


> My 50g is similar to a 55g. I found that with a 6" spray bar mounted on the side, the water movement was increased dramatically. You probably won't need the wavemakers.


I have the spray bar right now, I can see if that will work when I get planted. The canister filter is <400GPH rated, and with a pre-filter canister and 4L of media, I would guess flow is somewhere in the high 200GHP.


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## ChrisX

Grobbins48 said:


> I have the spray bar right now, I can see if that will work when I get planted. The canister filter is <400GPH rated, and with a pre-filter canister and 4L of media, I would guess flow is somewhere in the high 200GHP.


SunSun filters already have large surface area capacity vs. their flow. Why do you need a pre-filter canister?

I have a 303b that will be going on a 75g tank and I think it will be plenty for your 55g without the extension. If anything, you should be running a Griggs reactor inline with your filter, not another pre-filter.


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## vanish

Well, I disagree with ChrisX on this one. I have a Sunsun 304b on my 75g (with a Griggs Reactor), and the flow exists, but its fairly weak. I use a ~350gph powerhead to supply most of the flow to the tank.


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## Grobbins48

So I run the pre-filter because I find the SunSun canister has a tremendous amount of water that bypasses the filter media with the loose fitting baskets. Every time I would open it up, the bio media would be COVERED with filth. I put the pre-filter to have all the mechanical filtration happen external of the canister so only very clean water was going to the canister, keeping my bio media healthier. Also makes maintenance MUCH easier, as I rarely need to open the actual canister and remove the bio media, just the pre-filter.

As far as the reactor, I am debating exactly what to run the CO2 into right now. Part of me really wants to make a reactor, and part of me is thinking simple diffuser...


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## The Dude1

Ok let me get organized.
1. Did you test those rocks to make sure they are nonreactive?
2. The flow from the 304B on my 75 is almost non-existent. Even with a supplemental AC70 it isn't good enough... but the Sunsun powerheads are too strong especially for stems. I would add a secondary filter like an AC for sure.
3. Do you plan on keeping all of those rainbows or growing some out, keeping best males and rehoming the rest. There are some gorgeous Rainbows and mass produced Bosemani aren't a good representation. I would leave some room for yellow rainbows, Kamaka, Red Laser, Goyder River, Wanamensis, Dorityi.... there are some stunning Rainbows. Just presenting the idea up front for your consideration.
4. The FSPEC was not adequate on my 75 which has the same depth. I added a DA and that got me where I needed to be. Both come on at 930am. The DA shuts off at 2pm and the FSPEC shuts off at 9pm. Once I got some good plant mass I was able to extend my viewing hours, but you may need to have a shorter photoperiod. 
5. Rainbows jump. Make sure you have a lid.
6. A reactor is so much more efficient and easier to maintain. The diffuser will clog up and need cleaning and give you the soda water effect... with less diffusion. A reactor is like $30 in parts and maybe 10 minutes of work.


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## ChrisX

vanish said:


> Well, I disagree with ChrisX on this one. I have a Sunsun 304b on my 75g (with a Griggs Reactor), and the flow exists, but its fairly weak. I use a ~350gph powerhead to supply most of the flow to the tank.


Its actually a 304b I got for my 75g and have yet to set up. Its supposed to have a 500gph pump, sized for 150g??? I haven't run it yet.

I also have a 302b on my 50g doing all the filtration. It has a griggs and the 6" spray bar at the end, everything in the tank sways and moves a little bit. 

IMO, a shorter spray bar creates a better jet and more water movement.


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## Grobbins48

The Dude1 said:


> Ok let me get organized.
> 1. Did you test those rocks to make sure they are nonreactive?
> 2. The flow from the 304B on my 75 is almost non-existent. Even with a supplemental AC70 it isn't good enough... but the Sunsun powerheads are too strong especially for stems. I would add a secondary filter like an AC for sure.
> 3. Do you plan on keeping all of those rainbows or growing some out, keeping best males and rehoming the rest. There are some gorgeous Rainbows and mass produced Bosemani aren't a good representation. I would leave some room for yellow rainbows, Kamaka, Red Laser, Goyder River, Wanamensis, Dorityi.... there are some stunning Rainbows. Just presenting the idea up front for your consideration.
> 4. The FSPEC was not adequate on my 75 which has the same depth. I added a DA and that got me where I needed to be. Both come on at 930am. The DA shuts off at 2pm and the FSPEC shuts off at 9pm. Once I got some good plant mass I was able to extend my viewing hours, but you may need to have a shorter photoperiod.
> 5. Rainbows jump. Make sure you have a lid.
> 6. A reactor is so much more efficient and easier to maintain. The diffuser will clog up and need cleaning and give you the soda water effect... with less diffusion. A reactor is like $30 in parts and maybe 10 minutes of work.


Thanks for you comments! Here are some answers/ thoughts:

1- Yes, passed vinegar test and used in aquarium for over a year prior to this scape. Just did a bleach and waster clean, rise, and dry, then added to new scape. 

2- Thanks, good to know it's not just me with the SunSuns. I'll keep working to figure out flow source. I eventually want an inline heater, and possible reactor (more below) so maybe a 2nd canister would be best, one with heater, one with reactor.

3- Agree with this on mass produced rainbows. My thought is run with these guys for a while and see what they grow into, with the idea of rehoming some down the road. I like the idea of having only a few species at this time, that being the boesmani and turquoise. Good news is there are lot's of hobbiests who enjoy the rainbows where I live so not too concerned with potentially fining a good home for some in the future.

*What I do have available right at my LFS are Millineum, Red, Wapoga, Wanamensis, Boesmani, Turquoise, and Praecox

I also want to add bottom feeders, thinking some kind of cory, and either Roseline Sharks (dennison barbs) or a smaller schooling fish. Anyone have thoughts on this? Headed to the LFS tomorrow to mostly finish stocking.:laugh2:*

4- Good to know. The DA is the 6500K, correct? That would be good to add down to road to help balance some colors out. I have on my 29 gallon the same FSPEC, but also run 2 6ft strips of Phillips Hue Gen 2 Led Strips (color, intensity, and temperature can be modified through Hue app and or/ SmartThings. True RBGW strips.) to bring more intensity during the day and allow for a ramp up/ down. Note those are pricey lights that I happened to get an amazing deal on, and have extras lying around the house. Might use some on the 55 also to tune the colors. If I didn't already have them, I would not use them.

5- Yup! Just switched from the black cheap lids with stock led to glass lids to run the lights and keep fish in the tank!

6- Yeah, I really think I'll build a reactor. I just looked over at the 29 gallon tank, and already it needs a bleach dip... yuck.

I am thinking planting will be a few weeks out still. I want to really think it through. Some nice compact plants would be nice around the rocks on the right, and some larger either ferns or crypts (I have a MASSIVE cryptocoryne undulatus red in the 29 reaching the top of the tank right now) on the left side? Not sure if I am wanting demanding stems at this point in time. Maybe do some more demanding plants in the 29 gallon, and keep this one more about the fish.


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> 2- Thanks, good to know it's not just me with the SunSuns. I'll keep working to figure out flow source. I eventually want an inline heater, and possible reactor (more below) so maybe a 2nd canister would be best, one with heater, one with reactor.
> 
> 3- Agree with this on mass produced rainbows. My thought is run with these guys for a while and see what they grow into, with the idea of rehoming some down the road. I like the idea of having only a few species at this time, that being the boesmani and turquoise. Good news is there are lot's of hobbiests who enjoy the rainbows where I live so not too concerned with potentially fining a good home for some in the future.
> 
> *What I do have available right at my LFS are Millineum, Red, Wapoga, Wanamensis, Boesmani, Turquoise, and Praecox
> 
> *


*
I was going to suggest a second canister. That alone should provide enough flow. Plus when you clean one, the bio field on the other is not disturbed. Or if one fails, the tank is OK while you repair or replace. Once you get a bunch of mature Rainbows several years old in there, you will understand the value of that. 

And Rainbows appreciate lots of oxygen, so I would keep spray bars aimed up at the surface. A nice gentle ripple assures good healthy oxygen levels. 

Millenniums are very nice. Females stay tan, and have some of the worst female color of all Rainbows. So I would stick with males. They stay smaller than Red Irians, and will better for your 55 gallon. Irians get huge.

I would go with Wapoga vs. Praecox. In general, Praecox are the weakest strain of all LFS Rainbows. They have been over bred, and just tend to wither and die for no apparent reason. It's been that way for decades. Wapoga is fairly new to the hobby, so the bloodlines are much more pure. Colors are very similar, but Wapoga seems to be more healthy in general. 

Cory's are personal preference. I had some for a very short time. I didn't like they way they shot up to the surface all the time, as it seemed to break up the fluid tranquil vibe of the Rainbows. But hey, I know many adore them, so it's whatever YOU like. 

You will find Roseline's in many Rainbow tanks. Helps with layering. They stay more toward the lower third of the tank, Rainbows in the upper two thirds. Great healthy fish that are easy to care for, and good looking too.*


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## The Dude1

I forgot Milleniums. I've got 2 gorgeous males and they are striking. The red is just crazy.
I've got Panda Corys with my Rainbows. There cool, but they need a big group to be social with such active tankmates. I almost bought a group of 5 Zebra loaches the other day. Super cool and so active. The only issue is I have a large group of syno's in my 150 and the aforementioned Corys with my Rainbows.


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## vanish

As far as a second light, I think its depends on what you want to achieve. I'd say you're right on that a single 48" DA FSPEC is _medium_ light. It will grow most plants pretty well with co2. However, you're not going to be driving them hard like a dutch tank. It depends on what you're looking for: high growth rate, high maintenance or slower growth rate, but healthy plants ( as opposed to no co2 ).

I'm running a single 48" DA FSPEC on my 75g and its enough for my tastes at the moment, but it doesn't get the crazy inch per day growth rates I hear about on tanks with high par.


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## Grobbins48

So a few updates from this weekend, nothing crazy yet. Finished my stocking, I'll update the first post this week to reflect everything, but added roseline barbs and a school of elegan corrys. So far really enjoying everyone as they settle. Today did a fairly large water change and added in my meds as a preventative measure. Using General Cure and Erythromycin which I plan to keep in the water column for 7 days then will water change. 

I should probably run some carbon after that change to make sure all meds are out. I have never used carbon in a canister filter before, so any recommendations would be appreciated. Not sure what brands to go with, and guessing to get something like seachems 'the bag'? 

As far as CO2, working on getting the fittings ordered and in, and deciding between the Fabco NV-55 needle valve or a dwyer RMA-151 flow meeter (for the right price...). Either way need to run this tank and the 29 gallon (oh boy is that tank rough right now, pressurized CO2 from DIY about 2 weeks ago and massive algae bloom. Will have to reconfigure ferts, lighting cycle, and do a couple massive back to back water changes to reset, not to mention probably taking lots of the plants out for pruning/ H2O2 sprays).

While on the topic of the 29, what would make more sense, having a new thread for that tank, or updating this one to 'A Tale of Two Tanks'? 

Thanks for the feedback on the lighting, I want to keep in the medium for right now. One complaint I have about the FSPEC is the red led's are showing up on the rocks. It's almost as if the lenses isn't wide enough to disperse the light. I suppose for the price of it you can't have it all. Still considering adding one of the RBGW strips later to tune the color more. 

No pictures to share tonight, but I'll see if everyone has settled in a bit more tomorrow and try and grab a few of the fish to share.

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## Grobbins48

Got a deal on a used RMA-151 SSV on the auction site today for $23 shipped. Hope it works well being used, but for the price I had to give it a shot. Seller guaranteed it works, so figured little risk at this point. There are some more on the site right now, but it seems they do not have valves incorporated, just the flow meter. I'll keep and eye out depending on how things go with this one, but would really like to get two of these to keep things consistent, and easy to dial back in after a CO2 refill. 

Drop checker for the 55 gallon is on its way also. Slowly but surely getting all the parts in!

Also, found a local company who deals Fabco, Clippard, Dwyer, etc. Talked to a rep there and I can order whatever I need, pick up locally and will not need to worry about the outrageous handling and shipping fees (Clippard and Fabco each had $10 handling for ordering through them!). Now to get my list of fittings, etc. together and grab everything. Then a run to Home Depot to get reactor supplies and air line tubing. Just need to figure out what design I want to go with. As far as the tubing for CO2, I have read almost every post on the CO2 tubing, and have decided that for me, using the cheaper available tubing at Home Depot 3/16 ID 5/16 OD 20 ft for under $5 would be best. Not too worried about line loss, permeation, or pressure (rated 55 PSI max). 

I'll work on getting a few pictures this afternoon/ evening!


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## Grobbins48

Here are a few shots. Too bright in the room right now so get lots of reflections. More photos another time that I'll take after the sun goes down. 

Bright side is I super thinned out the 29 gallon tank (1 pic also included- after only), had way too much plant mass, and was just out of whack. I need to figure out some crypts that don't grow so tall and some decent stems for the 29. Also cleaned up and replanted the s-repins. Hope they take hold and take off! The dwarf hairgrass is rocking pretty good. Did a H2O2 treatment to that and the anubias nana. Things should dial in after this scrub. EI dosing, and thinking I'll do micro macro on the same day, just deciding on 2 or 3 times per week. Would really like to dial in good and not need anything chemical to prevent algae in the future, though in the past had used excel.






























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## Greggz

Looks like you are getting somewhere now. You will enjoy the Dwyer once you get it set up. To me, much better than a bubble counter.

Curious did you get those Boesemani from a couple different sources??

I notice that most have a yellowish tail, but one is a really nice orange? 

And the Roselines are a very nice addition.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Looks like you are getting somewhere now. You will enjoy the Dwyer once you get it set up. To me, much better than a bubble counter.
> 
> Curious did you get those Boesemani from a couple different sources??
> 
> I notice that most have a yellowish tail, but one is a really nice orange?
> 
> And the Roselines are a very nice addition.


Thanks, really enjoying the roseline interacting in the tank. I did use two different stores for the rainbows. The one where I got the bright orange one only had the one Male. 

I am not sure on the sex of the others. Are they female, or low grade males mixed in? Will the colors come in more down the road?

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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks, really enjoying the roseline interacting in the tank. I did use two different stores for the rainbows. The one where I got the bright orange one only had the one Male.
> 
> I am not sure on the sex of the others. Are they female, or low grade males mixed in? Will the colors come in more down the road?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Hard to tell from the pictures, but the more yellow ones look like two females/two males. 

The colors will not change much. The yellowish ones will stay yellowish, the bright orange one will get even brighter orange. A good example of breeding, and the different strains that are available.

The more orange one is most likely the Lake Aytingo variety.


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## Grobbins48

Thanks for the overview. Still have a lot to learn about rainbows. Read a lot and saw YouTube videos explaining it, but seeing it is another thing. The one orange on is really nice, but I do still enjoy the yellow ones too!

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## Grobbins48

Today the RMA-151 came in, so I decided to test it on the 29 gallon tank. I'll end up needing a bit of advice by the end of this.

Off the Aquatek regulator, I used a 1/8 NPT female coupling to a 1/8 NPT 1/8 ID barbed fitting (this will eventually T-off to two barbed fittings- need to test the whole setup). Then I run into the RMA-151, to a Clippard check valve ( MCV-1BB-V with two 10-32 to barbed fitting) and then into the diffuser in the tank. I used Everbuilt .170 ID tubing from Home Depot to connect everything. It's a fit, but possibly a little loose? Using bubbles (soapy water) I check for leaks, and everything is good, MINUS the Clippard check valve. 

Now here comes where I might need advice. What could be causing the leak? My guess is that its the tubing that is .170 ID. Should I be using 1/8 ID (.125) tubing instead of this? What about this (https://www.amazon.com/ATP-Vinyl-Fl...id=1524079048&sr=8-3&keywords=1/8+id+tubing)?

Or could the issue be that the 10-32 barbed fitting only has one barb? I cannot imagine that is the issue, my guess would be more towards the ID of my current tubing is too big. Thoughts are appreciated on this one!


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## Grobbins48

In case anyone is curious, .170 ID tubing does NOT work with 1/8 ID brass barbs. CO2 turned on this morning and after 10 min the line on the barb off the regulator blew off. Thankfully I was in the room when it happened and shut CO2 down for the day, did an excel dose, and cut the lights to low. The 1/8 ID tubing should be here tomorrow (Home Depot and Lowes do not carry it besides bright orange fuel line). 100 ft for about $12 (see link above). I could have purchased the Clippard tubing at about $20 for 100 ft, even had it in my hand (oh hindsight) - I just hope the stuff from Amazon works, otherwise super expensive tubing lesson. Hopefully someone else can at least learn from my mistakes!


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## Grobbins48

Just a quick update tonight. I ended up redoing the hardscape, adding 5lbs of lava rock under the BDBS to make a tall slope, and try and aid in prevention of compacting sand. I again used my homemade substrate supports to try and keep everything in place nicely. Hopefully this works! 

The water Sprite is just in there for now, probably not part of the long term play for the tank, and definitely not there, thought it might be good to start to have a fast growing plant like that to help balance.

I have also added the CO2 as of today. Created a DIY cerges style reactor as seen on other posts on TPT. So far seems pretty good. Have not yet had a dull day running it so, and figure it will take a bit of time to dial it in. Want to be conservative as not to cause any issues with an accidental overdose. Right now running 40PSI into it at about 20cc/min.

As far as plants, I'll most likely do some dwarf sagittaria foreground in the middle to left side. Thinking maybe s.repins between the rocks up high right? Or maybe that is too close to the light for them, and do something like montecarlo? Looking for suggestions there. 

Right now in my 29 gallon I have the dwarf sagittaria converting from emersed form, as well as some new stems of rotala wallichii, ludwigia peruensis, and ludwigia broadleaf I grabbed yesterday from the lfs. Thinking the peruensis would be a good plant for this tank with its bigger size.























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## Grobbins48

Some updates to the tank, which is now far more planted, but not yet complete (are we ever 'complete'?). Note- I know there needs to be some maintenance done, as there is some slight algae. I think I am finishing up a diatoms phase right now, and just recently got some green hair algae (I think?). I attribute this to running the CO2 for a about a week or two with no real plant mass, and with that no dry dosing of ferts. Wanted to work on dialing in the CO2 level before the next step. That being said, I think I have found a good spot, where the flow meter is running about 14 cc/min at 40psi into the reactor. Getting the light green color I desire now, and have it on the same timer set-up as the 29 gallon.

I am still running a bag a carbon I put in a couple weeks ago to strip meds out. Also running 2 bags of purigen. This is the first time I am using it in the hobby, and first year of planted tanks, so we will see how I feel about it. Reading through other posts it seems people love it. @Greggz I saw you put the purigen back in as well in your journal, so I'll be sure to keep following along to learn more. 

I have also been running the UV a little bit every week. My concern with running 100% is reading/seeing YouTube videos of the UV bulb actually eating away at the SunSun baskets. I don't want to run into that. I did have a little green water outbreak in the 29 gallon this week as the dwarf sag was melting as it transitioned to submerged form. Some of that translated over to the 55, but two days of UV and it seems to be under control. I'll keep it off for now, and probably run it for a day post every water change. 

Side note, the 29 gallon is getting a SunSun 702 this week (with UV), so that is exciting to change to that from a HOB. Should help out a lot of things.

Here is what I am dosing currently in the pictures below. For some reason, I cannot seem to figure out how to make the pictures show up in the body of the post...

For plants, most everything was stated out in my 29 gallon to get it going, and has now been moved over (besides the monte carlo and crypt wendtii bronz which were planted right in the 55). Here is the plant list:

*Current:*
ludwigia peruensis
ludwigia ovalis
rotala wallichii
dwarf sagittaria
water sprite- will come out
crypt undulata red
crypt wendtii bronze
micranthemum monte carlo 

*To be added*
staurogyne repens- growing out in 29 gallon
some other stems- not sure, will see what the LFS has, or the for sale/ RAOK section of the forum has.

Finally, for anyone who enjoys cameras (I am learning more about my DSLR every day) here is what I am using. Note, that pictures were taken during the day with lots of ambient light, and I am by no means a professional. Just used auto-focus this time.

Camera- Nikon D3300
Lens- AF-S NIKKOR 18-55mm
Filter- Vivitar CPL (helps with glare, really amazing and the reason I did not use my Galaxy S8 phone camera today)

I think that covers just about everything right now.


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## Grobbins48

Almost forgot to include a FTS...


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## Grobbins48

Sharing this thread I started on my SunSun filter... 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_tid=1264218&share_fid=4235&share_type=t



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## Grobbins48

So I moved most of the s.repins out of the 29 and into the 55, as well as a few blades of DHG. I figured I should get them used to this tank and going. I really want the s.repins to thrive an propagate, the DHG is more of a see what happens kind of thing. 

I have a few posts out on Ca, Mg, and csmb trying to decide if I need to make any adjustments. Still undecided at this point, though I may up the micros per some feedback and just dose early in the morning like I do everything else to keep it simple. Not sure if I want to go daily or not yet. More reading to do!









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## Grobbins48

Update and some thoughts. 

Some parameters of the tank today:

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 10

Phosphate 2

Kh 7

Gh 9

Ph 6.6

TDS 285

Some baseline measures:

Tap TDS 200

Tap ph 7.4

Calcium test is due to arrive on Saturday, at which point I'll do some testing and math to see what my tap water runs at, and then see what my Mg concentration is from the tap.

Plants are doing well so far. I think the dwarf sagittaria is still transitioning a bit. There are some taller leaves that are beginning to melt, and the new growth is actually starting to do what I wanted, that is stay relatively short and make a kind of carpet on the left of the tank around the rocks. No pictures right now. 

The rotala wallichii new growth is looking great. Biggest issue I seem to be facing with it is a strong current blowing the stems to always lean to the right, which is funny because the only flow is from the SunSun 303 spray bar. The water is blowing towards the surface to create agitation. It goes all 4 ft of the tank, hits the left glass, goes down, and creates some rather strong current back to the right side of the tank below the surface. Not going to take any action at this point, but will keep and eye on it as the new growth continues. 

MC transitioning, but I think I am seeing some small new growth pop up. Very exciting. I did have a few floating portions I replanted today on the left side of the tank. That side is further from the light, so it will be interesting to see if the 6 inches does much in terms of how it impacts growth. 

All the crypts are doing the thing... growing slow! Wendtii bronze transitioning, and my guess is will be for a while.

S.repins looking good so far, and continuing to grow in this tank coming from my 29. Makes me happy! 

All ludwigia species seem to be doing well and growing. Really enjoying the broadleaf on the right side of the tank, 5 stems there just looks so great to me. 

I downloaded Aquarium Logger on my phone tonight. I am going to try and start logging better what I am doing. Daily ferts and TDS, then weekly on the other numbers. Figured actual TDS trend could be interesting. Being on the phone will be much easier for me tankncomputer. 

I do need to dial in my ph better, but the pen I bought from Amazon I really struggled with so I returned it. It was about $12. I may try another one here in the future. The ph drops test kit is difficult to get accurate. 

The CO2 is now running at 18cc/min at 40psi, no issues today. I did extend the photoperoid two hours to 9 hours (10am to 7pm). The CO2 is still turning off at 4pm, but I figure with the CO2 built up a bit in the reactor at this point in the day the concentration will stay high long enough to push the light longer. The drop checker id a nice green color. I want to get a 7pm ph reading. That will be my goal over the next few days. I really should get a working ph pen....

Only struggle right now is a bit of cloudy water. I am wondering if it is due to some of the plants that were emersed that are transitioning to submerged. I have two packets of purigen, 300ml carbon, and had been running UV for a couple days. Still a little cloudy. Water change coming soon, I'll see if that helps.

Also, there is some green algae still present on the glass and rocks. I have been letting it go a bit and will give a deep clean during the next water change. 

Wondering if I should add some Ottos or some other smaller algae eaters. I have four ottos in my 29, and really enjoy them. The biggies issue is how fragile they are when you first get them home from the store. No matter what I usually lose 1 in 3. Strange, because the ones that make it have nice big stomachs and are happy and fun to watch. 

All fish are looking good and happy, eating well and enjoying the plants.

This turned into a much longer update than I planned, so if you made it this far, tha is for reading and I'll work on pictures soon!

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## sdwindansea

Sometimes running the UV actually makes my water cloudy during the first 48 - 72 hours. I'm assuming it is because it is killing off something in the water. I typically run it after tank maintenance when I'm pulling up plants and lots of organics are pulled up with them.


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## Grobbins48

sdwindansea said:


> Sometimes running the UV actually makes my water cloudy during the first 48 - 72 hours. I'm assuming it is because it is killing off something in the water. I typically run it after tank maintenance when I'm pulling up plants and lots of organics are pulled up with them.


Interesting. I'll see what happens, as last night I turned off UV. I'll see what it's like tomorrow morning, and will likely try for a water change in the next day or two. 

It's also just a SunSun build in UV, so not the most powerful from what I have read, but I figured it could help with some smaller issues that happen. 

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## Grobbins48

Decent update here including cleaning, water change, water testing, and some new plants (will need some ID help).

Did a massive tank cleaning to remove all (haha not all...) algae from the glass and rocks on Saturday morning. Water was crazy cloudy when cleaning, so now I of course see a few spots that I have missed, however the tank is looking much nicer now. TDS maxed out around 290 before the change, and after the water change was about 250-- this was after adding my macros and micros for the day (my tap seems to be about 200). This left me to the huge calcium in my water debate, which I have another thread for. The short of it is, after using an API Ca test kit, I have determined my tap contains about 40ppm Ca, giving me ~10ppm Mg. With this, I will keep with my Mg dosing of an additional 7ppm or so weekly.

I think I am at a place now where I want to keep things consistent and give the tank a few weeks, with only my regular maintenance, water changes, and ferts. For the time being I'll keep with 3 days of macros, and daily micros.

Then I did some work with the plants. Today I purchased three new ones from my LFS, and I am not sure what everything is, so help is appreciated. Name or question at the top of each picture:

hygrophila pinnatifida- one portion gave me 3 plants










Some kind of hygrophilia- not sure what type, ID if you can!










Cannot at all remember what this one is










Here is a shot from the right










And the FTS










Thinking I am at a good place with plants for now. The dwarf sag will need to keep being trimmed until all new submerged growth is at a lower height than what it there now. The cyrpts are still transitioning to submerged, but beginning to throw out a few new leaves, which is good! The rotala wallichii is a bit funky at the moment, but I think with some time will come around. The ludwigia peruensis seems to be a bit of a slow grower right now, but again, I think a lot of the plants are just getting used to the new environment. I am thinking this tank will be more of the nature type aquarium, minus any wood. I am really starting to like how the right side of the tank is filling in, and how the plants will hopefully have some overlapping happening.

Stocking has remained the same for now, the bows are doing well and seem to be enjoying the tank, and the corys are loving the spot under the ludwigia broadleaf.


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## Grobbins48

Checking out the tank on lunch, and one of the turquoise was displaying pretty nice to one of the female turquoise. It is amazing to me how vivid the stripe can get, and how he can turn it on and off so quickly. It's reminds me of watching discovery channel back in the day and one of the cuttlefish changing colors. Caught a short video too. The rainbows are still young, so I don't get to see a whole ton if this behavior yet. What a beautiful fish!


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## ChrisX

Grobbins48 said:


> Interesting. I'll see what happens, as last night I turned off UV. I'll see what it's like tomorrow morning, and will likely try for a water change in the next day or two.
> 
> It's also just a SunSun build in UV, so not the most powerful from what I have read, but I figured it could help with some smaller issues that happen.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


I bought a 7W SunSun standalone UV last year and it definitely helped clear up some persistent cloudy water. Water was crystal clear!

I also have the 304B ready for my new 75g, and I've seen the deteriorating plastic in videos. I've also decided not to use the UV unless absolutely necessary, but if the baskets did break down, I would probably just carve out the middle of the trays and use a piece of PVC.

It might be worth modifying the on/off switch on the UV filter so that it can be put on a timer and it only runs a couple days out of the week. I had some great success in that tank raising keyhole cichild fry and every single one was healthy, never a disease in that tank, possibly because of protection from the UV.

However, I did use the 7W UV filter 24/7 for the past 9 months and the bulb just recently burned out. I didn't see any damage to the plastic last time I looked.

---------------
Your tanks are looking great. How did the lava rock under the sand work out? I've been trying to figure out how to terrace with sand and I figured it would always just slide down and expose what was underneath.


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## Grobbins48

ChrisX said:


> Your tanks are looking great. How did the lava rock under the sand work out? I've been trying to figure out how to terrace with sand and I figured it would always just slide down and expose what was underneath.


Thanks! So far it is working well for me. I did also keep with the substrate supports (corrugated plastic sign material) as well as the lava rock to hold things in place. The lava rock definitely helped me build higher, and the supports are placed such that I am not having issues with sand rolling down. Once the monte carlo gets rooted, I'm sure that will help also.

As for the built in UV, I have been trying to only run it one day a week, 24hrs after a water change. I figured I could add the PVC sleeve others on YouTube did if needed, but prefer to avoid that if possible. I don't want to destroy all the bio media from UV exposure before I catch any issues! I suppose I could be preventative and sleeve it before failure. I wonder if anyone on the forum has had that issue. Maybe I'll start a thread on it.

Someone locally to me is selling 36W coralife standaling UV pretty cheap, and I'm trying to control my impulses. That also seem like a massive amount of power, but is standalone. I wonder of that amount of power would kill off everything, including disease? I could easy put it on a timer too... :-X exercises impulse control... 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

So a while ago on my 29 gallon tank, I added 12 total feet of Phillips Hue Gen 2 LED strips to bring in some color (6,500K on top of my Beasmswork DA FSPEC at 10,000K) and have been enjoying the look, plus the higher light range that is becomes (no idea on PAR with the Phillips Hue added). With that said, I happen to have 12 more feet 'laying' around the house, so how could I resist the urge to DIY something out of them for the 55 gallon. 

The Beamswork DA FSPEC I have on it now does a decent job with pearling some plants, but leaves some shaded areas, and is not exactly giving me all the color I am looking for. So with some of the material I used for the substrate supports (corrugated plastic signs) I cut a 48 x 4 inch section, and placed the 2 6ft strips on it. Here is what it looks like from the underside and top.



















Now here is a comparison of the colors (if you can tell... in person it is extremely evident!)

Only Beamswork DA FSPEC 









All lights










I have no idea what the PAR values are, however I did use my phone as a Lux meter 1 inch under the light. Here were the readings:

DA FSPEC 48" LUX ~26,000
DIY Phillips LED LUX ~14,000

It 'seems' to me that it's not quite like adding a Beamswork DHL 6500K 1W that I have been thinking about (which would I believe more than double my current PAR), but this should add a decent amount of light. Maybe give me ~50% more par? All very rough. For what it is worth, my 29 gallon with the same set-up gives me the same LUX readings.

According to this thread (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...-fspec-dhl-6500k-par-lux-kelvin-pur-data.html) at the substrate I should have ~50 PAR, so maybe up to around ~75 now?

Almost right away (water is saturated with CO2 already) I noticed a substantial increase in pearling of the plants. I'll have to keep an eye out for nutrient levels, TDS, and any other signs of imbalance, but already am pretty excited about this.

The coolest part about the Phillips Hue strips is they are completely controllable for kelvin tempature, dimming, and even RBG color (they are RBGW LED Strips). So now I have both tanks on a little ramp up and ramp down. Cool little DIY toy to play with.

Note: I would not recommend anyone go out and purchase these strips for this purpose. They cost ~$80 each, and I have no idea the PAR values. The ONLY reason I did this is I ended up getting these a couple years ago at an AMAZING deal and had some extras (most used for under-counter lighting purpose, which they work amazing for!). Just felt I should give that PSA! :wink2:

Also, another side note, the black backdrop has those water marks from the previous inhabitants of the tank (African Cichlids) and are battle scars of the splashing that would happen from the endless fights. Its just simple acrylic paint from the craft store, so easily scratched and shows water marks like none other. Should be fine once plants start growing in, I hope... :grin2:


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## Grobbins48

I waited nearly a week to post, but I have added six otocinclus catfish as of 5/23, and I am happy to report that all are doing well. They should be, as I have enough algae to support at least a dozen of them... Here is a pic of when they were first introduced:











Now as for day, I also did a little upgrading of my DIY phillips hue lights, they are now mounted to a 1x4 rather than a corrugated plastic sheet:laugh2:! Hopefully this will hold up better. Only issue is I somehow damaged a few of the white LED's, maybe six of them in one section, but life goes on.




















Went through a did a water change and cleaning of the tank today, the whole holiday weekend thing threw stuff off. Did the normal scrape the algae off the glass, but didn't have time to get after the rocks as I only had about an hour for the two tanks. 55 gallon TDS was 350 pre, 285 post (and after a dose of macros) on tap water of 200. I did take some time to trim back melting leaves, any dwarf sag that was growing too tall, and also trimmed the monte carlo for the first time. The MC is showing some nice new growth and roots, so it was nice to take away some of the melting leaves. Still more to go. It is also very evident there is a lot of algae left on the rocks- just not enough time today to get at it. I didnt realize how much there was in person, it was the pictures that made me go oh wow! I am thinking this is spiking right now because of so many plants transition and having melting leaves. The EI dosing is staying the same for now, though after much reading I am considering front loading the macros and moving away from CSM+B and using custom micros. Still thinking and reading up on that, might make the change in a couple weeks if I do.










I did trim up the rotala wallichii, it was just growing awful strange to me. So here is to using hope as a strategy (for now) that they will grow in nicer and that they can reach the top before I trim them again.

I moved the hygrophila pinnatifida sections to a better place to get more light, flow, and space to grow. They are already showing new growth after only a week. I feel that I am going to be enjoying this plant.










Staurogyne repens growing well, though I cannot keep this algae off the leaves. Quite frustrating as I really want a nice lush carper of this.










Shot of the left side










This guy wanted to say hi!










And last but not least, the FTS- those rocks though... need to bust the toothbrush out. If anyone had feedback on something I might be missing for this algae, it is more than welcome!


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## Grobbins48

Lot’s going on over here-

New Plants
New custom micro dosing
Cleaning
Purchased new light (waiting on delivery)
pH meter- separate thread

So to start with, I added some stems of hygrophila angustifolia, baby tears- Micranthemum micranthemoides, and ludwigia ovalis. Will update the first post with all plants in the tank, but at my count there are 16 different species. I think I need to stop for the time being, or at least if I get something new, pull something out to put into the 29 gallon (which is a disaster… yikes…)



















After a lot of reading, research, and contemplating, I have decided that using CSM+B for micros is not the way that I want to go. Some of the trace elements are such small quantities there is no telling what my tank is getting every time I dose. I also wanted to use DPTA Fe vs the EDTA that is in the CSM+B. With that said, I reached out to @burr740 who has put together an amazing package that includes the 6 micros in reasonable quantities for an amazing price. I added on the DPTA Fe as well, so in the mail today came all 7 trace elements. The Fe will be the first element to run out on me, and I have at least 3 years’ worth. The NiSO4.5H2O I have over 19 years’ worth!! I feel like I got an incredible value, and at the same time saved some $$$ not buying large, unnecessary quantities of everything. I know there is a thread on this, and that people are already working together, but it is the way to go IMHO!

Now for the dosing. I am starting with that Burr recommended that people have been using which is the following:

Fe - .15 ppm
Mn - .075 ppm
B - .03 ppm
Zn - .055 ppm
Mo - .0015 ppm
Cu - .002 ppm
Ni - .0005 ppm

I added all of this (by the mg- using rotallabutterly.com) to a 16 oz bottle with a 1.25oz pump. I am not sure if it is 100% metered, however testing 8 pumps about 10 time, I came up with the same number of ml which was 10 (10/8 = 1.25). I then added 10 ml of distilled vinegar to 450 ml of distilled water, and added everything into the 16oz bottle. Capped it tight, and shook it like crazy. Everything looks dissolved, but as per recommended I am letting in sit for 24 hrs before my first dose. Right now I think I will stay with macros 3x and then micros 3x. Once things settle in a bit more I may experiment with front loading, but not ready to make that move yet.

On my latest cleaning and water change today, the tank has been showing noticeably less algae. I have been working on getting the CO2 to a high level (more on this next). The rocks seem to be what is collecting the most green algae, and are a lot of work to scrape off. I did most of them, but did leave a few rocks. Not sure if in time it will go away on its own, or if I have created myself a bigger issue. The only other thing I do see, is some of the rocks are getting a dark brown to black algae that is showing in little spots. Again, only on the rocks, and it did not scrub off. I am wondering, could this be BBA? I’ll keep an eye on it…










Now for the lighting. I could not resist, as I was able to find a Beamswork DHL 1W 6,500K for about $40 shipped from a certain website who shall not be named. It is set to be here on Wednesday. This should put me at 100+ PAR at the substrate according to the Beamswork thread measurements (including the DA FSPEC). I am really excited for this, and think I have my CO2 dialed in pretty good at this point.

Which brings me to the pH meter that I purchased from Amazon this week. I have a seperate thread on it here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...-ph-drop-review-levels-co2-concentration.html

The short of it is I am getting, according to the pH meter and degassed tank water, a ~1.8pH drop. Seems pretty crazy to me, but there are absolutely no issues with the fish in the tank. I still have a hard time believing this drop, so I will keep checking. This is more for my education and discovery at this point. I know that if the plants are happy and pearling, and the livestock is happy and healthy then the actual number do not really matter. I think for me it is knowing things are going well before upping the lighting to double Beamswork fixtures.


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## burr740

Tank is coming along nicely. Interested to see how the new micros work out


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## Greggz

Nice update!

You have got a lot going on now. I like it!

This should be fun to watch. 

And of course, the bows are nice touch.:wink2:


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## OreoP

Nice setup!! Rainbows are a big plus too. I have a combination of otos and nerite snails - they just wipe up all the algae


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## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Tank is coming along nicely. Interested to see how the new micros work out


Thanks burr! I really am excited about the micros too. In the pre custom micros world it was amazing to see the new growth on the ludwigia ovalis starting to color up after just 3 days in the tank! It will be fun to see how things work out in this new world.


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## Grobbins48

*Changing EI Dosing- Front load and up PO4*

I will have more of an update later on lighting (added a Beamsworks DHL) but before WC day comes up, I wanted to gather some feedback on dosing. @Greggz I have put my dosing in your format to keep things simple for everyone (thanks for sharing your file!).

My thought is going to front loading all the macros. Take a look, and please feel free to provide feedback on this. The main change from what I am doing right now is nearly doubling the PO4 to 8ppm. I am getting some annoying green algae and I thought giving this a try might help. CO2 and lighting should be good.

Thanks for any feedback and discussion on this, much appreciated.


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## Grobbins48

This is a partial update again here. I'll give a real nice one when I get a few moments to organize it, but I wanted to share a trim and little rescape I did (waterchange will happen tomorrow morning, so forgive some algae on rocks and glass...)

I have removed the water sprite as it was just out of place and I never really wanted it to begin with. I also pulled out the rotala wallichii :-(. It was growing poorly and just seemed to be an algae magnet... out of 20 or so stems, there were maybe three nice ones. Oh well, moving on. Finally down to just one of each crypt. There were just too many before. Now my 29 is loaded with them, but that tank will get an overhaul sometime this month.

I did a massive trim on the ludwigia broadleaf, leaving the rooted parts and expanding the section, replanting the tops. Also the ludwigia ovalis was trimmed, replanted and expanded. Between them I replanted the baby tears and then gave it a good trim. My hope is this gets it growing well, as the store growth is pretty poor. 

The hygrophila angustifolia section is now a little larger and in place of the watersprite. The baby tears former space is where my single pogostemon erectus stem is. It seems the main stem was abandoned when planting in my tank, but there is new growth that I am trying to encourage to take off. I would really like a few stems to come out of this for the tank. Will take time and patience it seems!

The monte carlo is growing well, though some older leaves are getting algae growth. I am thinking before water change time tomorrow I'll trim and siphon the MC. 

Dwarf sag is doing well and growing runners everywhere. I'll let it go a bit more before pruning it. Also the hygrophila polysperma is being to really take off. Curious to see where this plant ends up. 

The pinatifada is doing alright. I think it may be abandoning the old stem and focusing on new growth for each plant. Old leaves melting and falling, but starting to get some new shoots that seem to grow pretty quick.

Here is the before and after. Like it better, but still not there yet. The left side seems off to me.


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## Grobbins48

Did the cleaning on the tank this morning. Trimmed the monte carlo, and tried to remove the utricularia gibba that I found entwined within some of if. Quite irritating.... and hard to see...










I am still tossed up on keeping the algae on the rocks. In the pictured it looks way worse than in person, and it takes a tremendous amount of work to clean them. Last night I scrubbed one (you can tell in the picture in the post above), and did not do anymore today before the water change. Really torn on this one. I might have to give one good scrub with the stainless steel brush next week to get rid of any stubborn BBA spots that have formed, then let it go, only spot cleaning going forward.

I also cleaned out the pre-filter canister today, it was pretty dirty and may have been adding to some of the algae issues. I added in a 100 micron polishing pad on the top. We will see if this helps, and how long the pad lasts before needing cleaning. I just hope it can last a week without killing my flow!

The dosing is now the same from two posts above, front loaded macro for the week and upped the PO4 to 8ppm.

Also, I am now running dual Beamsworks fixtures: DS FSPEC and DHL 6500K 1W. Looks like substrate should be just around 100 PAR at this point in time. Really digging the look of the lights, and really enjoying the major amount of pearling that I am getting! Right now I am running the DHL at the back of the tank. It has a little more PAR, and is a bit yellow, so having the FSPEC up front seems to help balance the light. I am also hoping this will help the stems grow a little straighter, not trying to bend to the most powerful light. Now that the ludwigia stems are mainly growth from my tank, things should start to come in nicer. 

Moved the drop checker to near the bottom of the tank, opposite the canister filters spray bar. Still getting the same yellow color as before, so it seems the CO2 dispersion and flow through the tank is good. All the pearling is a good sign too!

I also noticed my flowmeters dancing a bit with their flow rates, and would you believe it, I am out of CO2 (well down to ~550PSI, but that means only gas left). So I did find some time today to run to the beer store and grab a new cylinder. This time I opted for the 10lb tank. So according to my math, and this is very rough math to be taken with a grain of salt, the 10 lbs should last about 130 days, or just around 4 months (this is my 55 and 29, which use around 25 and 15 cc respectively. Added 5 cc/min to be conservative allowing for error and any CO2 loss in the line... no science there). 



















Also in are the pH calibration packets, so tomorrow I'll re-calibrate and keep some 4pH solution to keep the pen in when not being used. Hopefully I'll get some good readings now!


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## finfan

just read through this.. very nice progress, like how the plants have taken off and filling in all the spots, looking forward to the update!


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## MCFC

A sea of green... Where's the colour?


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## Grobbins48

finfan said:


> just read through this.. very nice progress, like how the plants have taken off and filling in all the spots, looking forward to the update!


Thank you- I have been enjoying working on this and learning, and at the same time documenting this to recall my progress! It is starting to fill in a bit better.



MCFC said:


> A sea of green... Where's the colour?


Oh, I am with you on this one, and those pictures make it even more green. The ludwigia peruensis is just not yet dominant enough, and I am getting algae growth on the old leaves, so only the top 5 or so look red.

The ludwigia ovalis is really starting to get a nice pink'ish color to it right now, but not there yet, and also is right next to the peruensis and the broadleaf, who is having the same issues as the peruensis.

Might try to get a full tank shot tonight when there is not so much glare everywhere.

I am thinking some AR Mini would be nice, or maybe even just full on AR. What else could bring some nice color into the tank?


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## Grobbins48

Here is a new FTS as of right now- still fighting some dust algae on the glass











Here is the view from my desk (the side)












Some pictures of the fish (and plants)


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## Greggz

Well the Bows sure do have a lot of color!

Looking good!


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Well the Bows sure do have a lot of color!
> 
> Looking good!


Thanks, I am really enjoying them. So happy I decided to go this route from the african cichlids. They are a ton of fun, beautiful, and peaceful. 

Side note, I have been feeding them flakes and frozen blood worms. Fed once a day, and the blood worms maybe 2-3 times a week. Anything that you would recommend being a keeper of bows for many years?


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Side note, I have been feeding them flakes and frozen blood worms. Fed once a day, and the blood worms maybe 2-3 times a week. Anything that you would recommend being a keeper of bows for many years?


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## SkyLight

Greggz said:


>


This is super helpful Greggz! Thanks for sharing. Is there a particular routine you follow / recommend? I currently have 4 type of food (blood worms, frozen shrimp, flakes, pallets) that I cycle through - i.e., the fish get each of these four once every 4 days. I want to make sure I learn from your tried and tested (and successful!) practices.


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## Greggz

Personally New Life Spectrum pellets are my staple food. I feed one tsp per day, lightly dropped on the surface in small pinches. Only enough each time that it is mostly all eaten on the way down. Loaches get whatever makes it to the bottom. After that they get a couple of pinches or cubes of one of the others shown above. I feed five times a week and only once a day.

If I have really small ones growing out, I might add a dash of NLS flakes, Tubiflex, blood worms, or black worms to anything else, as they are smaller and easier for the small ones to get. I want to make sure they are eating, which can be tricky with a bunch of very fast moving large Bows in there.

I don't feed any frozen foods, as I found a correlation between frozen foods and algae. When I cut them out, I noticed an immediate change. I use all dry/freeze dried foods. Other than the pellets, I soak the others in a cup for maybe 20 minutes before I toss them in. 

In general, I feed a lot less than most might imagine with a fully stocked tank of mostly mature Bows. I'd rather err on the side of too little than too much. It takes a bit of self control, as Rainbows are always hungry, and you could feed four or five times per day, and they would eat. Problem is that is not really good for the Bows or the tank in general, so best to resist the urge.

Hope that helps. In general, if your Bows and plants are healthy and growing, then I am sure you are doing just fine.


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## Grobbins48

@Greggz thanks for sharing your experience and advice on feeding. I will have to try the pellets. Good to know about soaking freeze dried before feeding too. I have always hated using freeze dried because of how it just kind of floats and sticks in the tank. I'll give it a try.

I have been using frozen blood worms, but maybe at some point I'll try cutting them and see if I notice anything. I feel like there are many things contributing to my algae right now!


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## Grobbins48

*Micro Mishap, perhaps?*

So I was just looking through my math on the Micros, and realized that I used the ZnSO4.7H2O for my calculations on rotalabutterly vs. using Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate 35.5%. So this give me 1.65 grams added vs. the 1.04 that should have been added to my 450 mL of water. If I do the math on the calculator, adding 1.65 grams of Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate to my 450 mL actually gave me 0.09 ppm of Zn vs. the 0.055 recommended. 

I am still far too new to this to know, but anyone have thought to the effect this can have? I have been dosing this just about two weeks at this point, and things are surely looking better than with CSM+B. Algae seems to be slowing (not stopped), colors seems to be coming in. I also started front loading macros at the same time, so a few changes happening.

Thoughts on the Zn?


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## ChrisX

Greggz said:


> In general, I feed a lot less than most might imagine with a fully stocked tank of mostly mature Bows. I'd rather err on the side of too little than too much. It takes a bit of self control, as Rainbows are always hungry, and you could feed four or five times per day, and they would eat. Problem is that is not really good for the Bows or the tank in general, so best to resist the urge.
> 
> Hope that helps. In general, if your Bows and plants are healthy and growing, then I am sure you are doing just fine.



I wish I could resist the temptation, but I've been trying to maximize the growth of my Keyhole Cichlids. This is why I admire your tank so much Greggz, amazing plants and big fish. Hopefully when mine are grown I can cut back on the feedings.

Over the past year I've experimented with different things, CO2, fertz, lighting, and the only thing that seems to *really* make a difference in algae is prodigious maintenance and cleaning, frequent trims, treating problem areas as they arise, and cleaning the canister on a bi weekly basis. Over filtration is probably the key.

Algea is like grafitti. Once there is some grafitti, there will soon be ALOT of grafitti. You have to stay on top of it. Clean up all the trash. Clean it off the walls, and hopefully the neighborhood will stay nice. I don't know if the pro tanks are so nice because they are constantly working on them, or because they have reached stasis.


----------



## Greggz

ChrisX said:


> Over the past year I've experimented with different things, CO2, fertz, lighting, and the only thing that seems to *really* make a difference in algae is prodigious maintenance and cleaning, frequent trims, treating problem areas as they arise, and cleaning the canister on a bi weekly basis. Over filtration is probably the key.


Chrisx you have said a mouthful there. 

While there are entire threads here devoted to Ferts/CO2/Lighting (and rightly so), you don't see any devoted to tank maintenance. And in my view it is equally if not more important. 

When any trouble arises, my first instinct is to get things uber clean. Then trim/prune and create some space between species. Can cure a host of ills, and allows for more leeway with everything else.

Bump:


Grobbins48 said:


> So I was just looking through my math on the Micros, and realized that I used the ZnSO4.7H2O for my calculations on rotalabutterly vs. using Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate 35.5%. So this give me 1.65 grams added vs. the 1.04 that should have been added to my 450 mL of water. If I do the math on the calculator, adding 1.65 grams of Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate to my 450 mL actually gave me 0.09 ppm of Zn vs. the 0.055 recommended.
> 
> I am still far too new to this to know, but anyone have thought to the effect this can have? I have been dosing this just about two weeks at this point, and things are surely looking better than with CSM+B. Algae seems to be slowing (not stopped), colors seems to be coming in. I also started front loading macros at the same time, so a few changes happening.
> 
> Thoughts on the Zn?


Personally I wouldn't worry about it. Keep an eye on the plants, and if nothing gets wonky I'm sure you are fine.

Now if the plants start doing back flips and growing out of the tank, then report back. Maybe you will you discover a great new recipe by accident!:grin2:


----------



## burr740

I dosed .065 ppm Zn every day for a couple of months with no ill affects, at least none that were obvious.

Zn has a pretty low potential for toxicity. Worst case having that much is it may inhibit the uptake and utilization of Fe. 

Nothing to freak out about but I'd probably go ahead and make a new batch


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> I dosed .065 ppm Zn every day for a couple of months with no ill affects, at least none that were obvious.
> 
> Zn has a pretty low potential for toxicity. Worst case having that much is it may inhibit the uptake and utilization of Fe.
> 
> Nothing to freak out about but I'd probably go ahead and make a new batch


Thanks for sharing. I'll work up a new batch. I also did some more poking around because I remembered a picture you shared with the element relationships. I finally found it in the phosphate thread. 










Your post was also quite informative, as well as the link about the elements. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=11006866

It made me think of the macro front loading. I am only one week in and seems like things are going well so far. I know a lot of people do this right now with great results. Just interesting to see so many of these elements have antagonistic relationships with each other that by the end of the week I wonder how much has precipitated out, or been rendered ineffective due to these interactions. I know it's a million dollar question!

Anyways, I'll keep the frontloading (also makes life easier!) and likely mix up a new batch of micros (though I may go another week, we'll see if I get a chance to mix before next micro day! Ha!).


----------



## burr740

I think the general ranges we use and see recommended in this hobby are not much to worry about. It's like reading a medical book, focus too much on the symptoms and you'll come away thinking you have everything in the book!

But it's important to be aware of what can to what to something else. Like say a person's tap water comes with 100 pm Ca, they'll probably have to adjust several other things around having that much

Or when you hear someone say K or P isnt toxic so it doesnt matter how much you add. Well, yes and no. It may not be toxic but extreme levels of just about anything can induce deficiencies in some thing else

So that Mulder's chart is nothing to obsess over but it can be an important diagnostic too when something is out of whack and we cant figure out why.

Here's a better pic, the colors make it easier to tell whats going on. Also if you google mulders chart nutrient interactions you'll find lots of informative articles and studies that go further into it


----------



## Grobbins48

Did the normal maintenance routine last night and today. I have been really unhappy with the left side of the tank, so naturally I moved a bunch around. The hygrophila polysperma is an absolute weed, and will likely not be in the tank long term. I had to move that from front and center to the back left and planted it to grow vertical. 

I cleaned up and moved the ludwigia peruensis from the center back to center middle/ front. Hopefully this will get it even more light and help keep it growing straight and with less to no algae. 










Then behind the peruensis I moved the hygrophila angustifolia, which I think now has more room and will do better. I am really learning the limitations of the 55 gallon depth... really wish it was a 75, but that would end up 6 inches into the window...

The dwarf sagittaria was getting out of control also, so did a major thinning and replanted, with some extras going into my 29 that is unsure of what is it right now. 29 picture below (loving my mini dwarf hairgrass carpet though). I need to figure out my scape for that tank someday.










The three rocks on the left were just taking up too much room, so I removed all but one of them. The one I did leave I flipped over to expose the clean side. I want to see how much algae accumulates this week. Likely won't stay long term.

The monte carlo got another good trim. Trying to finally kick the algae that seems to love it. I think I an getting close here, but not yet. I did not clean the algae off the rocks. Between lack of time and desire to do so. The good news is it seems the algae slowed. So maybe someday I'll give a good clean and hope for even more slowing... I know hope is not a strategy!










Digging the Ludwigia ovalis and how it is coming in.










Kept my same macro front load dose from last week. Of course I forgot to test the nitrates and PO4 before the water change, so I'll try and remember next week. 

The 100 micron filter pad did its job all week. It was dirty but still had flow to it. Swapped it out for a fresh paste and ill clean this one for next week.

Overall things are progressing. I need to figure out the left side here. I do want some more color added, some reds, and some purples would be great. We'll see.

And the FTS for today:










All of today's pictures taken using my Galaxy S8.


----------



## The Dude1

Wow... that looks spectacular. You may see the left side as unfinished it makes a great contrast to the right. Can't wait to see what you do with it. I'm envious of people that can maintain long term scrapes with stems. I don't have it.


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## Grobbins48

The Dude1 said:


> Wow... that looks spectacular. You may see the left side as unfinished it makes a great contrast to the right. Can't wait to see what you do with it. I'm envious of people that can maintain long term scrapes with stems. I don't have it.


Thank you for the kind words. That's a great point about the left side, I'll have to keep that in mind!


----------



## Grobbins48

Nitrates- ~40ppm
Phosphate- >5 and <10
GH- 10
KH- 7

Will keep the same frontloading schedule going this week. Water change tomorrow, but mixed the ferts tonight, sitting dry in a cup to speed the water change up.

Mixed up a new batch of micros, this ti.e with confirmed right amounts of all elements (Zn now at 0.055 ppm). Excited to see what this will do.

I have decided to do a round of glut for a few weeks to try and clear things up a bit. I don't want this to be a forever solve, but want to get things clicking along then back off when I feel more comfortable. Metricide 14 will be in this week. For the time being I had a little leftover Excel from my DIY CO2 days (dosed daily then due to inconsistent CO2). 

I may really scrub the rocks before tomorrows water change knowing I will be using the glut. Give it a good clean start and make that weekly maintenance easier. We'll see how much I can get done.

The monte carlo seems to get the algae the worse, and is also right below the spray bar. I figured they are not getting enough flow, so this week I added one of the SunSun crazy narrow banded wavemaker back to the tank. What I did was point that to the surface for agitation and some flow, and then the spraybar now points down. I can see the increased flow for sure, and around the MC too. The pearling blows around a bit now, not just a slow rise to the top. 

This sunsun wavemaker is too much though, too directional. I am really considering a hydor koralia 425, but have yet to pull the trigger. Part of me wants another canister, but that's a lot to justify when I can get a wider, gentler flowing wavemaker for $25. The more I think a out it the more I might just get the wavemaker for now.

I am also considering getting a few more purigen pouches for each tank to keep a good rotation going (some in canister, some recharging/ on standby). Now that I type this I'm likely going to order them tonight.

I did pick up some tissue culture AR from PetSmart this week, so I'll plant that tomorrow. Try and bring a bit more reds to the tank.

Otherwise things are going well. Hopefully the glut will help the monte carlo carpet fight this algae, along with the other annoyances. 

Pic from two nights ago, so a little more growth since then.


----------



## Grobbins48

Here is the AR just planted. Did in two spots to try and increase success chances. High light good flow areas. Also a couple stems went in the 29.










Also move two smaller hygrophila pinnatifida over into the monte carlo. I think the intertwining look could be cool with these plants.










You will also noticed I only scrubbed some of the rocks, and removed a few. Tons of work, and had to take some out and put back after a scrub. I also miss the look a bit, so I decided I can spot clean any really bad algae, but for ascetics I don't mind the algae on the rocks. We will see how it grows back now that I'm doing the glut dosing. In the past I noticed glut can help with plants algae, but would still get it on wood, so I am thinking it will grow back on the rocks over a few weeks.


----------



## Grobbins48

Light maintenance and waterchange. No trim, though I may need to make a few cuts midweek. 

The frontloading macros and custom micros seem to be rocking, as I feel like growth exploded this past week. The glut is helping with algae on plants while still allowing some aesthetically pleasing algae to grow on the rocks.

I did get the hydo korila 425, and the flow is so much nicer, broad and gentle. Really happy so far.

I did have a minor scare today when cleaning the pre filter. I use the little valves to shut off water flow to completely remove the pre filter canister. Well when turning one back on, the valve handle popped off, and water started flowing everywhere. Luckily I keep everything in a 30 gallon container, so the leaking g eater was contained and I was able to stop the flow by removing the intake from the tank. Ling story short, after three tried, I finally found the little O ring and reassembled with no leaks. What a scare that was for about 15 min!

The new AR has spouted its first submerged leaves, so hopeful on that plant.

And here is the new FTS.


----------



## Grobbins48

Man dwarf sagittaria and hygrophila polysperma grow uncontrollably in my tank. Had to pull them out, was just too much to try and maintain every week. I did put a few pieces in my 29 gallon that is finally getting going, so not all is gone.

The pogostemon erectus propagation project is bo underway. Starting to get somewhere with them, so I have them a more open area to hopefully help some growth along.










I took some of the s. Repins from a trim and moved them to the 29 as well as replanted some tops in this tank. It grew in and even spread much better than I though would. Pretty pleased with the results so far.

The monte carlo is going along, but not quite where I want to see it. I again tried adjusting things to get some better flow to it. We will see.










Hygrophila angustifolia is also exploding. I spaced them out a bit more as backdrop plants, but man, they are huge. May need to go to fewer stems of this beast. Might need to find an outlet to sell off some of these plants as they grow. Maybe I'll have luck with the local Facebook club. Trying g to keep algae to a minimum.

Speaking of which, I have been doing the metracide daily, about 12ml or so. Jury is still out, but it seem to be helping most plants algae free. But the hygrophila angustifolia seems to be shading some lower leaves really bringing the organics in the water up. 

I also added two more purigen packets today I got off the bay. They came in the same packaging, but the purigen packets themselves were quite a bit smaller than my existing ones. Curious. 

I also removed the carbon from the canister and cleaned the bio media in a 5 gallon bucket of tank water. Next I'll need to clean the lines, they are getting gunked up pretty good.

Overall happy with the progress and positioning of the plants for the time being.


----------



## Grobbins48

This is why I cannot have a dirt substrate! I move things too much!!










The tank has been having algae issues, and I think it is mainly due to organics in the water. Between leaves that broke off and were not fished out, to feeding the fish, there is just a lot happening.

That made me want to try and make my life a bit easier. As much as I enjoy working on the tank, I need to try and make it a bit simpler to maintain right now, just due to life. So I did a pretty big reset. Here is where it was before the move.










I really like it from a distance, but up close it is rough. And I sit up close to it all day 5 days a week!

So saved some of the nice looking plants and pulled rough leaves off. Here is what I ended up replanting. 










Also decided that because the s. repins is growing so well I will expand on that carpet, and may try a slope effect with it. 

As for dosing I need to make a call in the morning on it. Thinking of bringing it down to 1/2 of what I have been doing, but not sure yet. Need to sleep on it. I do still want to frontload. 

As for the metracide, I am going to continue to run with it for a while. I think that even using that, there was too much organic matter in the tank which drove algae. Live and learn (I mean I knew this, just blah... still learning more!).

Here is where the tank is at now. Simple and small, and lots of potential (imo). The AR is in grow out mode. The hygrophila angustifolia is in let's salvage a bit of it incase I want more someday. 











Oh yeah, did I mention that I love having black diamond blasting sand?? Ahahah.....


----------



## Grobbins48

I think I like where this is going. More details to come, but wanted to share a little something I did with the tank tonight.


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## Grobbins48

So I have been feeling recently like I am fighting a losing battle with algae, and I am getting tired, but not feeling defeated yet. The main algae I face are dust, spot, and even green water the past two weeks. CO2 is good and holding with the 1.3-4 pH drop. I have not messed with ferts really, running similar to what may others run who use BDBS (or PFS) (Thinking Greggz, Burr, MCFC to name a few). Even dosing Metracide 14 every day at ~15ml for 55 gallon, and running the UV light for a couple days could knock it. 

I have decided I need to level down my light for a while and see what happens. I do not have dimmers for the Beamsworks right now, so what I have decided to do this week is run only the DHL 1W 6500K fixture. I removed the FSPEC completely for now. Initially the look what a shock to me-- not as bright and much warmer. Now I did this last night, and this morning as the lights turned on, I actually am enjoying the look right now. Calmer feel (or maybe I just feel calmer with some of these moves?)

That being said, the water still had a green tint to it when looking through the tank the long way (~70% WC last night). I did not turn on UV last night (trying not to use it too much as the SunSun has the bad reputation that we have talked about where the plastic is not suited to prolong UV exposure) but have decided to turn it on today and see how things look tomorrow. I also will continue to dose ~15ml daily of glut for the next couple days. I'll be away from the tank for about 3 days this week, so there is that too.

I also am trying to be as good as I can with keeping a clean tank, but I'll tell ya, getting every melted/ melting leave out can be tough, and I know I miss a lot. That being said, I feel like I am getting a lot less melting now, so that is a positive.

During the cleaning last night I used H2O2 on some of the MC to try and clean that up a bit as well.

For ferts, I will continue the same mix, as right now I feel light was my major issue. The big reset from last night left me with about 5ppm NO3 and .5ppm PO4. Should be around 30 and 8 of each respectively now. Micros remain the same as well. Let's see how the week goes.

I also have removed the spray bar, and am using just the outflow elbow for now (like I have seen in Burr's videos). Just thought I would try it and see how the flow is. Right now, all flow is on the right side of the tank, to the left side. The intake is also on the left side of the tank (opposite the output and wave maker). Now ideally I would have two filters (maybe someday?) and have an input and output on each side of the tank. But with only one filter, does anyone think I could improve my setup? My thought is having the input on the opposite side helps to keep moving the water around, and the skimmer on the side with less surface agitation helps to keep it clean and breathing. Anyone think I should get all the flow on one side? And if so, what side would you recommend? 

As for the new scape, I am just really enjoying it right now. The fish seem to really be enjoying it. I also added my three Apistogramma Steel Blue from my 29 over to this tank. The scape in this tank suits them much better I believe. As for feeding, today they had no issue. I'll keep an eye on them, but feel they will do very well in here.

I really hope this lower light can help things out a bit here, and maybe in time I can add back the FSPEC to bring me back to the 100+ club. Might even need to invest in a dimmer to slowly get there. 

Patience, right?


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## burr740

I wouldnt dose that much metricide because in my experience large prolonged overdoses can kill the bio filter. Ive had it bring on diatom blooms and gda, both signs of an immature tank (it could explain the green water too)

And I say this as a big fan of glut. I used it heavy for a couple of years before switching to real co2, and many times since in various applications.

But dosing for an extended period of time, I'd stick to 5-7 ml for a 55, which is still around 2x the recommended Excel dose if you're using Metricide.


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## Grobbins48

@burr740 thabk you for the advice. And now that you mention it I do feel like some of the problems got a bit worse right after starting dosing the metracide (green water). I guess I just thought other things were a mess so I overdid it a bit...

I'll definitely cut it down to much less and see what happens. Actually, I may not dose any more until my next water change and give the tank a chance to rebuild if I did indeed accidently take a hit on the bio filter. Thinking out loud, but yeah, I'll see how it does the balance of the week and make a call how to go forward.

I long to be at the point where I do not need it at all. And who knows, maybe I was close to there, or am there now and just made things worse by dosing too much.


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## Grobbins48

This view from my desk (looking down left side) is pretty cool, but also shows the water clarity issue a bit more pronounced. No glut dosed today. And been two days since a water change (though I ded dose after water change, so only one day no dosing so far).


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## Grobbins48

Coming back to the tank a week with no added metracide there was no green water, noticeably less algae then weeks prior (remember I removed the FSPEC also), and overall looking pretty good.

Cleaning and water change, along with cleaning the tubing for the SunSun. Continuing to use a 100 micron polishing pad in the pre filter as a final stage before media. Overall pretty happy.

I am really enjoying the colors the tank is giving off with just the DHL 6500K, it's really a calming kind of look. No pictures right now, I'll owe them tomorrow maybe.

Going to run at same fert dosing this week. And keep off the glut (give the BB more time to colonize, though they are probably back with full force now). Just have to keep and eye on the tank and enjoy it.


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## Grobbins48

Here are some shots from this morning.

The action in the tank is great. No color saturation or sharpness or anything edited to these photos. Only thing is a polarized filter to cut reflections.

This is the same shot with two different focal points. Thought is was pretty interesting.



























My newer addition from my 29 gallon- Apisto Steel Blue- total of 3 in here now









This view gives a bit more depth I feel.










And the FTS, because why not (its bright in the room now, filter cuts reflections, but so bright cannot eliminate them. More night photo shoots are in order...)


----------



## Grobbins48

Because why not...


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## Grobbins48

Really feeling the shallow front to back in my 55...

So I am thinking of removing the rock, at a minimum, in the upper right corner. I feel like it is space wasted where I could grow out some plants. Only thought is the outflow is there. I could go back to using the spray bar to disperse the flow a bit more. 

Also I may need to just trim the stems shorter and more frequently. Thoughts??


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## Grobbins48

Water change, clean, and trim tonight. Things are doing quite well right now. Get a dist algae on the glass, but not big deal. Did end up removing the one rock to free up some space. Spread out on ludwigia broadleaf and ovalis for the time being up there.

Same dosing, and started 5ml glut a few times a week after a 10 day break from it.

Still working on my 29 gallon. Went to 1/2 EI frontloading as it is not overly heavily planted. I'll likely get something going with that in a week or two. Just trying to keep my dwarf mini hairgrass and a few other plants going until I get my act together with that tank.






























Added some more pictures:


----------



## RainbowRob

Quick question, have you noticed any difference in fish and plant color with only the white and blue lights vs. the fspec? I'm upgrading and kind of torn on which one.


----------



## Grobbins48

DiscusRob said:


> Quick question, have you noticed any difference in fish and plant color with only the white and blue lights vs. the fspec? I'm upgrading and kind of torn on which one.


The light on now is only my DHL 6500K 1w. It gives off a soft, 'natural' feeling to the tank in my opinion. Quite calming, with decent coloration for the price (~$50). 

The DA FSPEC was a much cooler look to it that tended to make things pop a bit more.

That said, for a while I ran both (DHL in the back, DA FSPEC in the front) and liked the colors. The reason only running one light right now is I was overpowered for my experience and needs. 

Now that said, I am considering adding the FSPEC back in a week or two, but on a separate timer and run it a few hours as a 'noon' light. 

I have not tried dimmers on them, so not sure how true the colors stay as they dim.


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## RainbowRob

See that's where the problem starts. I'm not going to both, to me that would be too much light. I'm currently running a current sat. and a marineland single bright(yuck). Like the sharpness they provide but would like as you put it, More Pop in the colors, so the fspec would be the one I would go with for plants and pop


----------



## Grobbins48

DiscusRob said:


> See that's where the problem starts. I'm not going to both, to me that would be too much light. I'm currently running a current sat. and a marineland single bright(yuck). Like the sharpness they provide but would like as you put it, More Pop in the colors, so the fspec would be the one I would go with for plants and pop


Let me grab a couple pictures right now. Note that the color and saturation may look different depending what screen you use to view pictures. Give me 20 min or so.


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## Grobbins48

DHL back of tank










FSPEC back of tank










Both (DHL back FSPEC front)










Full Tank from left side (I never get to take this shot with glare on the tank all day)

DHL back of tank










FSPEC back of tank










Both (DHL back FSPEC front)










Hope this helps. The FSPEC really helps reds show (look at ludwigia ovalis in the first three and the ludwigia peruensis in the second three pictures). Now that I have done this, I do miss the FSPEC being on. That was the light I had first, before I bought the DHL. The DHL has slightly higher PAR values (based on a thread on this forum) which is why I chose that light when I bumped down to one.

Now with the timer though, I'll likely keep the DHL at 8 hrs and might start the FSPEC at 2-4 hrs for a coupe weeks and see how things are.


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## Grobbins48

*New Plants*

This tank looks quite a bit different this week- and I owe that to @Greggz for graciously providing me with his most recent trim of the beautiful tank he keeps. That being said, all credit goes to him for how wonderful the plants are looking right now. The challenge to me is to see what ones enjoy the recipe that I serve them, and how can I do them justice moving forward! Extremely grateful for this, and excited to work with them going forward.

Right now the plants are in recover mode after two days of moving. That being said, what a great job of packaging these plants! So much care was given to each set of stems.










Here is the list of plants received this week:

Helanthium bolivianum "angustifolius"
Myriophyllum Red Stem
Limnophila Aromatica "Mini"
Sagittaria subulate 
Pogostemon Kimberley
Clinopodium brownie
Limnophila Indica (Ambulia)
Rotala Macrandra Variegated
Mayaca Fluviatilis
Helanthium Quadricostatus 
Limnophila Rugosa
Bacopa Colorata
Ludwigia Inclinata Cuba
Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan'

I do not have specific pictures of each one of them, but as they adapt and adjust to my water, I'll be documenting how they do. 

What is really neat about this is receiving some plants I never have really thought about. Did I mention I am excited for this?










Dosing will be staying the same as previous, with a new batch of micros whipped up this morning (same recipe). 

Lighting is going to change slightly. I have the Beamswork DHL 6500K 1W that will remain on its 8 hrs schedule (noon - 8pm). I have added back the DA FSPEC on a secondary timer this time, which will start off at 4 hrs per day (2pm - 6pm). I am hoping this extra blast of light will help with the Monte Carlo that is struggling a big, as well as the new plants that are used to that 100 PAR at substrate. I am also hoping the 4 hrs will limit the algae growth, as for some reason I still cannot get past light dust algae (although the amount of algae sticking to plants has drastically reduced since removing the FSPEC). Hope this can strike a balance. I'll be watching closely. 










Regular maintenance is something that I feel like I am on top of. Every week (usually Friday nights) the tanks (including my 29 gallon- more to come another day on that one) get a good cleaning and 60% or so water change. Most recent parameters before water change were:

NO3: 40ppm
PO4: 5-10ppm (closer to 10 probably)
Tank GH: 11
Tap GH: 8
Ca: 40ppm
Tap MG: 10.5ppm

Nothing seems crazy off to me, but I'll keep an eye on PO4 levels through this week to see if there is any fluctuation. 

And that brings me to the most recent FTS:


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## Greggz

Glad to see the plants arrived in good shape. 

A few days of reaching for the light and they should bounce back from the travel.

Will be interesting to see how they do. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## RainbowRob

Looking great, can't wait till mine starts to look like that and a few other guru's here, won't mention any names:smile2::smile2::smile2:


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## burr740

A boatload of new plants is exactly what it needed! Looks great and will be even better when everything poofs out a little bit


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## Grobbins48

Yeah I am really enjoying the 2 gallons per species right now!! I think the total had hit 24 at the current moment.


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## Grobbins48

Update on how the plants are adjusting, as well as playing with some of the Galaxy S8 pro camera settings. Note- I am trying to match things up the best I can, things being plant names. If you see something off, please correct me. I take no offense, and would love to learn and have the right names.

Keeping an eye this week:
PO4: ~5ppm - 10ppm (might run some control tests to dial in my colors better...)
NO3: ~40ppm

*Helanthium bolivianum "angustifolius"*

Too soon to say on this one, no new growth seen, however some of the old leaves look tired. My feeling is this will be one that will take a while to adapt and get going. No picture

*Myriophyllum Red Stem* & *Limnophila Aromatica "Mini"*

The Myriophyllum Red Stem seems to have not skipped a beat, and is doing really well early on. Stretching for the light and nice new growth. Some new growth on the Limnophila Aromatica "Mini" as well. 










*Pogostemon Kimberley*

Now this one was all curled up when it got out of the bag. It is slowly reaching, but more of the new growth is straight then the old correcting its-self. There is new growth though, and that is exciting, because I have wanted this plant for a while now!










*Clinopodium brownie*

What a neat little plant. Seems to be adjusting well.










*Limnophila Indica (Ambulia)*

WOW. How beautiful is this one... I really hope I can keep it going. So far it is stretching for the light nicely, bending through the day, and even has some nice looking new growth. Fingers crossed!










*Rotala Macrandra Variegated*

For being delicate stems, this one is doing well. Gaining its structure nicely, along with some new growth. I think I might try and move this one forward a bit, but I do like to contrast is has against the green. But might do better closer to the light? We will see.










*Mayaca Fluviatilis*

Pearls nicely, but otherwise has not really done much yet.










*Helanthium Quadricostatus*

Would be great for this one to stick around. From research they are pretty cool plants. 










*Limnophila Rugosa*

Rather delicate, a lot of the stems that came in melted hard at the bottom. The tops left seems to be doing well now though. I think it was any stems left below a node that was cut melted away.










*Bacopa Colorata*

I used to have Bacopa Carolina (I still cant believe I tossed it). Really excited to have this one in my tank though, and get some neat colors from it.










*Ludwigia Inclinata Cuba*

I have seen online that this one can get absolutely stunning. There is some new growth happening, which makes me happy. Seems delicate, at least at the moment, so trying to be careful with it.










*Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' *

I honestly never thought I would have something like this, but how cool! I will say I was nervous on day two, because all but one of the old leave fell off during shipping. However I have 4 new leaves and one new bud. I think this weekend I will want to move it more central in the tank. Could look really cool growing around the driftwood. 










And if you got this far, FWIW, Galaxy S8 pro settings:

ISO: 50 or 100 (depending on the shot)
Shutter: 1/50
Standard
Focus: Auto
White Balance: 4600K (DA FSPEC and DHL on- Ambient light in the room. I'll need to try at night sometime)


----------



## Greggz

Nice job Grobbins48 you got them all correct!

Here are some notes on my experience with them.

Myrio Red Stem - Very, very fast grower. Cut tops and replant. Leave the bottoms in, and they will propagate, but it does take some time.

Pogo Kimberly - If left to grow tall, stems get really thick and strong. Propagates easily sending out new shoots. I never replant bottoms, as always too many tops to work with. 

C Brownie - Each stem will start throwing out side shoots, you might have 4 or 5 stems in one rooted bunch. Let those grow a bit, then separate them. Each individual stem will not start throwing out more. Easy to get a big bunch pretty quickly. Grows straight up vertically so easy to make a nice neat grouping.

Ambulia and Mayaca - Once they get going, no need to help propagate. They do it naturally. Leave either one with no trimming and they can fill up a tank in no time. I never re plant bottoms, just tops.

Rotala Mac. V - If it likes your tank, easy plant. I cut tall stems planting tops and leaving the bottoms in place. The bottoms will produce new growth creating a nice thick batch over time. Every once in awhile I completely remove it and trim back everything hard. Can tend to start choking itself if left to get too bushy.

L. Rugosa - Will produce loads of side shoots. Sometimes I toss the large plants and just start over with the shoots. Can get really large if you let it go, and does take a good deal of trimming. Mine comes completely out of the tank about every two weeks to get hacked down properly. All of those were side shoots that came off of larger plants.

Limno Aromatica Mini - You can do whatever you want with this plant. Grows like mad and creates loads of side shoots. Can become a thick patch pretty quickly. Again, every once in a while I need to pull it all and tame it. It just gets too thick if you let it go.

L. Cuba - When it gets going, stems get thick not delicate at all. Those were all small side shoots I just took off the main stems. Sometimes one stem will throw 4 or 5 new shoots which turn into beautiful flowers. Like the Pogo, I never replant the bottoms, the new tops just come naturally, it doesn't need to be helped along.

Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' - Once it gets going you won't believe how this thing can grow. I pinch off the tallest leaves a few times a week, just too keep it tamed, otherwise it will grow out of the tank. Does take some work, but not too bad if you stay on top of it.

Bacopa Colorata - Once it gets taller, cut the tops and replant. Leave the bottoms in place. They will each produce two or three new stems. This is a slower but solid grower, and doesn't take a great deal of maintenance like some of the others. Color improves as it gets closer to the light.

Helanthium Quadricostatus - That little one was back behind my driftwood, under the Pogo K and L Cuba, so pretty well shaded. It grows by throwing runners, so it will propagate naturally, no need to help it along. If it does well you will get to a point where you just pinch the runners, as left on it's own it will spread all over the tank.

Anyway, probably more than you wanted to know, but thought those tips might help. Good luck and looking forward to seeing how they do as they settle in more. You never know when going from one tank to another, but so far looks promising.


----------



## Grobbins48

@Greggz, thank you for that detail. It is extremely helpful to have that experience centralized!

Fingers crossed, as minus the remineralized RO water I run a very similar tank to yours with ferts, BDBS, par at substrate (estimated, though T5HO vs. LEDs). I'll post updates as I see pogress.

Excited to have so many things to watch now, it's like a whole new game!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

@Grobbins48 Myrio red stem and bacopa colorata can be prolific growers.
Not a bad thing but I trim them short and only keep tops.
Myrio can do 6-7" per week and colorata about 4"
@Greggz has sent me some of these genetically modified plants too, and they really like capped soil! >

Needed to subscribe to this thread anyway!:grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> @Grobbins48 Myrio red stem and bacopa colorata can be prolific growers.
> Not a bad thing but I trim them short and only keep tops.
> Myrio can do 6-7" per week and colorata about 4"
> 
> @Greggz has sent me some of these genetically modified plants too, and they really like capped soil! >
> 
> Needed to subscribe to this thread anyway!:grin2:


The myrio has already taken off and seems like it's going to touch the surface before the weekend. Good tip on the trim!

And thanks for the heads up on these mutant plants! He warned me that they are quick growers, and though I obviously believed him, like most things, seeing is beliving... and wow! :grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Experiment time. For me it has been quite difficult to distinguish PO4 levels on the API test kit, specifically between 5ppm and 10ppm. This made me want to run a little experiment with solutions of known values of PO4 from KH2PO4. It is a good thing I have a scale, because to get 2L of water to 5ppm is 14mg of the powder.

I decided to measure Tap, 2.5ppm, 5ppm, and 10ppm. THe 5ppm and 10 ppm I created from 14gm and 28mg of KH2PO4 to 2L of water, while the 2.5ppm was created using 5mL of the 5ppm solution with 5mL of tap water, then taking 5mL of that solution and measuring. Hindsight I should have done all of these measurements off the 10ppm solution I created, and then half that down to 1.75ppm or so. Maybe another rainy day (literally here... rain all day!).

Here are the results:



















And here is my tank today:



















So based on the images, I put myself somewhere between 5ppm and 10ppm in my tank.

Now my next thought, and action to gain a more accurate measure due to the color scale, is that if I mix my tank water 5mL sample with 5mL of distilled water, I may be able to produce better resolution, being in the 0.5ppm - 5.0ppm part of the chart. Then just multiple those results by 2x.

Here is the result:



















So somewhere between 2ppm and 5ppm, but seems somewhere in-between and darker then the 2.5ppm test I ran (are the colors linear?). Maybe 3.5ppm to 4ppm?

So this has me thinking the levels are around 7ppm-8ppm PO4 in the tank. 

I could be completely off with all of this, but just trying to gain a deeper understanding of my levels to see what works for my tank.

I dose ~8ppm worth of PO4 each WC, which is around a 50% - 60%. The 8ppm is based on 45 gallons of water (~100lbs of sand and some rocks, assuming takes up ~10 gallons). When I test before a WC, the color is still dark in that 5ppm to 10ppm range. So between dosing, WC, plant uptake, and the waste produced by my fish, it seems I hover around that 8ppm range.

Quite an effort, and maybe it's worth nothing, but here I am!


----------



## Grobbins48

The fish just did not want to get out of the way tonight. Things progressing well, lots of new growth and even had to trim the myrio for the first time as one stem was touching the surface. 

Some good colors on the turquoise bows too!


----------



## Grobbins48

Seems like paramaters have stayed consistent through the week. I do have a little bit of green water right now, not bad, but a little. Not sure what is going on. Water change woll be tomorrow but I think I'll run the UV starting now until then. 

I did dose a very little bit of Met 14 this week, less than 5mL maybe two times? Next week I'll just skip on this all together. Not sure of it is part of the green water but worth a shot.

Other thought is I do leave the filter on when I feed, and sometime a lot of food gets sucked down my skimmer. I am trying to do better at getting my hand in the water with the food to get it to sink, as I don't want to forget to turn the filter back on!

Anyways, here are the API tests. PO4 left is today, right a few days ago.


----------



## Grobbins48

Pearling nicely! Normal friday night cleaning. Same macros dosing. Going to to keep UV on through the night. Goal is no Met 14 this week in either of my tanks, we will see how that goes! Need to keep the green water away, still a bit perplexed by it. 

Little new BBA on some of the rocks (old stuff red and dead for a while). Overall though algae has been okay. I'm pretty sure under the substrate up on the glass I am getting trace amounts of BGA, but nothing horrible. It is where the sand never gets stirred, s.repins and monte carlo are there. My 29 had a little of it too where the DHG grows. I do use a razor blade to clean down low, could I accidently be pushing algae down there and promoting BGA? Anyone else experience that?

More plant updated to come later this week.


----------



## Greggz

Tanks looks better every update.

Based on how some of those fast growers are looking, you better sharpen your scissors!


----------



## RollaPrime

Can I ask what this is and how you use it?


----------



## Grobbins48

RollaPrime said:


> Can I ask what this is and how you use it?


Courgated plastic (like the kind uses for outdoor signs). I used white because I have it around, otherwise I would have purchased black. I use them as substrate supports for the sloped areas, to keep the sand from rolling down. Working very well, and I highly recommend this method to anyone who wants to bank up their substrate.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Tanks looks better every update.
> 
> Based on how some of those fast growers are looking, you better sharpen your scissors!


Thanks Gregg! Feels good to be moving forward and seeing things come to life. Excited for these to come in and replant some trimmings between this and the 29, which has become more of a farm tank right now. I have been looking through some of the pictures in your journal to get an idea of what some of them will become as they grow in. 

The P. Kimberly looks as if it makes an excellent background plant once its happy and growing. Is that a slower grower, or just adapting to my water right now?

My fastest growers seem to by your myrio and the L. Ovalis, each which seem to be able to achieve an inch a day!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> The P. Kimberly looks as if it makes an excellent background plant once its happy and growing. Is that a slower grower, or just adapting to my water right now?
> 
> My fastest growers seem to by your myrio and the L. Ovalis, each which seem to be able to achieve an inch a day!


Yes one of the good things about the Pogo K. is that is a med/slow grower. It's also easy to grow and care for, not too picky about fert changes and such. 

Once it gets going, stem will get thick and new shoots will form. I've sent out 10 or so shoots in the last few weeks. Still have a nice large bunch. 

And wait until that Ambulia gets going, right up there with the Myrio, grows like a weed.


----------



## RollaPrime

Grobbins48 said:


> Courgated plastic (like the kind uses for outdoor signs). I used white because I have it around, otherwise I would have purchased black. I use them as substrate supports for the sloped areas, to keep the sand from rolling down. Working very well, and I highly recommend this method to anyone who wants to bank up their substrate.



My hardscape plan is to create an island surrounded by stone and a carpet. The island should be 4 inches while the substrate around it 2 inches. Please excuse the rough paint job











The island's height will be supported with a layer of lava rock underneath. So basically

Substrate > Lava Rock > Substrate 



Surrounded by and encased by rock. Do you think I should add some substrate supports? My apologies for the mini thread jacking but I've never attempted anything like this before so I'm trying to get as much info as possible.


----------



## Grobbins48

RollaPrime said:


> My hardscape plan is to create an island surrounded by stone and a carpet. The island should be 4 inches while the substrate around it 2 inches. Please excuse the rough paint job
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The island's height will be supported with a layer of lava rock underneath. So basically
> 
> Substrate > Lava Rock > Substrate
> 
> 
> 
> Surrounded by and encased by rock. Do you think I should add some substrate supports? My apologies for the mini thread jacking but I've never attempted anything like this before so I'm trying to get as much info as possible.


What kind of substrate are you using? Will the island be a different substrate from the rest? Will rocks surround the island holding the substrate back? 

I use the supports progressively through the slope of the substrate, kind of like a stairs approach. I put them in partway through scaping, then top with more substrate. 

If the 4 inch part is all 4 deep (not sloped) then you are probably good with rocks retaining it (or supports being rocks for extra security if using different substrates between island and the rest of the tank). If you are sloping the island, then I suggest adding supports as well.


----------



## RollaPrime

Grobbins48 said:


> What kind of substrate are you using? Will the island be a different substrate from the rest? Will rocks surround the island holding the substrate back?
> 
> I use the supports progressively through the slope of the substrate, kind of like a stairs approach. I put them in partway through scaping, then top with more substrate.
> 
> If the 4 inch part is all 4 deep (not sloped) then you are probably good with rocks retaining it (or supports being rocks for extra security if using different substrates between island and the rest of the tank). If you are sloping the island, then I suggest adding supports as well.


I'm using a crystal quartz 1-2mm gravel
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001N02HD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And the island will be using the same product. I chose this because it's catfish safe and doesn't require washing. I know the latter is a regularly misused claim but having use this substrate before, I can confirm that it doesn't need any cleaning. 

Can you tell me the thickness of the courgated plastic you're using. I found some on ebay but I'm not sure which one to purchase in that regard.

Thanks.


----------



## Grobbins48

RollaPrime said:


> Can you tell me the thickness of the courgated plastic you're using. I found some on ebay but I'm not sure which one to purchase in that regard.
> 
> Thanks.


What I use is 1/4 inch corrugated plastic. I inset it vertically so that the substrate can fill the holes and hold in place quite well.


----------



## Grobbins48

Based of discussion on some other threads, I decided to give Osomocote Plus a try. Placed individual beeds around the roots of a few plants, and left some without as a kind of control. My main focus is the monte carlo. Below is a picture of the patch I placed maybe 6-7 balls under. I'll also be watching the pogostemon erectus. They are offshoots I have been trying to get to take for a while now, maybe 6 or more weeks. Let's see if this helps!


----------



## Grobbins48

So one thing that had happened the past two weeks is BBA showing up on some of the old/weak/ dying leaves. This is new for me to experience. I did pull out most the leaves that are infected, but have just found a fresh more to go after. The Helanthium bolivianum "angustifolius" and Helanthium Quadricostatus seem to be hit the hardest right now. The angustifolius I am not sure if it will make it. I'll need to uproot it and see if there is any new growth. I'll do all this tomorrow.

Doing well is the clinopodium brownie along with the limnophila rugosa. Both growing nicely with offshoots. The bacopa colorata is coming along nicely and showing hints of some pinks, while the p. kimberly in both spots of the tank has some nice looking new growth.










Huge fan so far of the Limnophila Rugosa 'Taiwan'. Growing pretty rapidly in a couple places, and is keeping very clean.










Rotala Macrandra Variegated doing well, and holding decent on color, maybe a bit duller than the old growth. Really pearls nicely near the end of the day. 










Limnophila Indica (Ambulia) is just awesome, really enjoying it. New growth looks amazing, though some of the d growth is getting light algae on it. Strange as most other plants are finally starting to be 'algae free' ::knock on wood::










Limnophila Aromatica "Mini" has some beautiful new growth. I'm going to like this one once it gets going. 










And a few other shots:




























And the hybrid FTS:


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> I'll also be watching the pogostemon erectus. They are offshoots I have been trying to get to take for a while now, maybe 6 or more weeks. Let's see if this helps!


I've found this to be a strange plant but not difficult.
Seems to need a long settle in time from tank to tank.
Once acclimated it can really get wild.


----------



## Mike!

Grobbins48 said:


>


This is really stunning now! I really appreciate your aesthetic, partly, I think, because it's the kind of thing I am striving for. Lush, even a little shaggy without being a jungle. A kind of middle ground between the extremes of Dutch, nature and jungle, in fact. I like that your choices are much more restrained than mine. I'm well over thirty species at this point and it shows, where you've got decent representation for each type and an over all balance.

Anyway, well done!


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> I've found this to be a strange plant but not difficult.
> Seems to need a long settle in time from tank to tank.
> Once acclimated it can really get wild.


Good to know. I really do want this plant to make it, so I am trying to be patient with it! I'll keep waiting!


Mike! said:


> This is really stunning now! I really appreciate your aesthetic, partly, I think, because it's the kind of thing I am striving for. Lush, even a little shaggy without being a jungle. A kind of middle ground between the extremes of Dutch, nature and jungle, in fact. I like that your choices are much more restrained than mine. I'm well over thirty species at this point and it shows, where you've got decent representation for each type and an over all balance.
> 
> Anyway, well done!


Thanks Mike, I appreciate the kind words. I really was not sure where I wanted to take things when I got started, but I like the way you put it! Sounds much better than saying my tank is confused! Maybe we need to dub a term for it!


----------



## Mike!

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks Mike, I appreciate the kind words. I really was not sure where I wanted to take things when I got started, but I like the way you put it! Sounds much better than saying my tank is confused! Maybe we need to dub a term for it!


It may not surprise you to learn I have given naming a fair amount of thought.

There's an obvious choice, just borrow the names of the two styles it most heavily cribs, call it "Nature Dutch Aquarium." It borrows Dutch's thick clusters of many plant varieties and Nature's love of elevation and emphasized hardscape.

My novel name suggestion is "Botanical Garden Aquarium." The aesthetic starts with a landscape that is deliberately unnatural. It's a garden built for the display of a wide variety of species. Maybe just "Botanical Aquarium."


----------



## Grobbins48

Mike! said:


> My novel name suggestion is "Botanical Garden Aquarium." The aesthetic starts with a landscape that is deliberately unnatural. It's a garden built for the display of a wide variety of species. Maybe just "Botanical Aquarium."


I am a fan of Botanical Aquarium!

As for right now, a little trim and moving things around. Oh yeah, as soon as think I am good I have now added three new species: rotala indica, crinum calamistratum, and cardamine lyrata. Detail pictures later once I see how they settle. I really need to stop with new things!

Here is how we are looking now in the 55:











And the farm tank 29 gallon:


----------



## Grobbins48

Just making a note to myself right now, and I'll do more of an update later.

CO2 exchanged today-- new 10# tank. I believe June 9th was the last time. So that gives 80 days on CO2, running the two tanks 8 hrs a day. When I have some more time I'll run some numbers, etc.


----------



## RollaPrime

Grobbins48 said:


> Just making a note to myself right now, and I'll do more of an update later.
> 
> CO2 exchanged today-- new 10# tank. I believe June 9th was the last time. So that gives 80 days on CO2, running the two tanks 8 hrs a day. When I have some more time I'll run some numbers, etc.


Looking forward to the breakdown!


----------



## Grobbins48

So very glad we had the CO2 tank discussion on Greggz thread, really saved me some possible headache. Luckily I had time to run out and exchange, only being without CO2 for about an hour. Still contemplating the numbers because I really thought I would get more than 80 days. 

I run CO2 on two tanks, 8 hrs a day. Combined CC/min probably around 40-45. Doing the math 45 cc/min * 60 min/hr * 8 hrs/day * 80 days = 1,728,000 cc of CO2. Seems my run rate is about 21,600 cc of CO2 per day. 

Based on my math last time around, one lb of CO2 is 8.741 cubic feet. This should equate to 28,316.8 cubic cm. So multiple that by 10lbs we get 2,475,171.5 cubic cm.

Somewhere I am missing?? 747,171 cc of gas, which my math would tell me should be about 30 more days, give or take? Okay, so I turned the tank in with 200psi in it or so, but I highly doubt that would last 30 days.

Now, all that being said, Greggz did mention in his journal that a 10lb tanks @ 45cc/min 8 hrs a day last him about 9 weeks, and I was just about 12 weeks. So if we look at it anecdotally, I suppose our results are close.

Overall, not a big deal (now that I know to mark my calendar sooner!), just a curiosity. Not sure if line loss plays in here, but oh well!

Anyways, onto other things. I tried something new with the tanks this week. No added Mg. All other dosing staying the same. There are a few threads talking about this, so I decided why not give it a shot this week. Results as of about a week (dosed on Friday night, now Thursday afternoon) are things seems to be doing quite well! 

Disclaimer: I did a terrible job with these pictures. White balance is a mess... But I uploaded 9 pictures to imgur, and by the time I realized they were crap the site said I maxed out my hourly upload. So maybe some other nice shots later... So forgive the colors..

For example, take a look at the Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan', which has become an absolute beast. Now, it also could be these plants are becoming established in the tank, but either way, WOW!











Also doing well are the Bacopa Colorata, Limnophila Rugosa, and Clinopodium brownie. I'll likely do a little re-organizing this coming weekend, working to make some nice little patches. Pretty excited about these ones.











Now, this picture is sort of a mess, and I didn't do a good job capturing the color, however I am really liking how things are progressing with Limnophila Aromatica "Mini". The way it is growing up, around, and through the Ludwigia Ovalis is really neat. I think I'll work to keep that look, but what I do need to change is the location of the Pogo K. but I am struggling where to put it.










The Helanthium Quadricostatus seems to be adjusting well. Pulled it up, pealed back the dead leaves, and replanted. Even have a little daughter plant starting. Pretty exciting.










Also propagating, but not doing well as a main plant is the Helanthium bolivianum "angustifolius". I trim the parent plant leaves when they start getting BBA, but I have not pulled it yet as I am trying to let it propagate as much as it can. Once the daughter plant/s start taking off, I'll toss the original. Below you can see the two daughter plants in the S.Repens, which really need a trim soon!










As for the Rotala Macrandra I don't really think I have much to complain about. In my eyes it looks pretty good, and still pearls nicely (though not seen in this pic!).










One plant that I might lose, though I am trying not to is the Ludwigia Inclinata Cuba. The original stems have completely melted back, and all that is left is the new growth in my tank. Struggling, but hope I can bring it back. I do have some osmocote plus with it now to try and help it out.










And then the rocking and rolling Ambulia, which is putting some nice side shoots where I trimmed it. 










With most of these new plants I am trying to propagate as much as I can right now to keep things sustainable. So far feeling pretty good about a majority of the tank, new plants and old alike.


----------



## Grobbins48

FTS I couldn't get up earlier. Definatly need some rearranging this weekend.


----------



## RainbowRob

Is that back to both lights or ??????

Bump:


Grobbins48 said:


> FTS I couldn't get up earlier. Definatly need some rearranging this weekend.


Rearrange what, that looks awesome, asked about the light because I getting ready to pull the trigger on fspec. Tank is rocking:smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2:


----------



## Grobbins48

DiscusRob said:


> Is that back to both lights or ??????
> 
> Bump:
> 
> Rearrange what, that looks awesome, asked about the light because I getting ready to pull the trigger on fspec. Tank is rocking:smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2:


Both lights were on in that pic. I run the DHL 6500 1W on the back of the tank for 8 hrs. The DA FSPEC is the front light and rus for the middle 4 hrs right now. Seems to be working well for the time being. Pearling like mad!

As for moving things, considering putting the Pogo Kimberly in the middle back, moving the AR somewhere, not sure where, and splitting up the ludwigia broadleaf and ovalis. Then maybe move something smaller from the left side over to the top of the hill on the right. 

But who knows! I'm sure as I get my hands in the tank I'll figure something out!


----------



## RainbowRob

Starting out, do you think the fspec would be a good starting point? as I'm planning on heading to co2 etc. type stuff


----------



## Grobbins48

I think the DA FSPEC is a great one to start with. Make sure you know what one you are getting. There is an EA FSPEC also. Mine, the DA has 5 rows of .5W LED's, while the EA has 3 rows of them. 

That being said, I never ran it with no CO2, so you may want to invest in a dimmer for it, or be prepared for a shorter photoperoid. There is a thread somewhere (I'll look for the link) that's gives lots of par data on the DA Fspec and DHL I have. 

Also, thank you for the kind words on the tank! I really have been enjoying it even more these past few weeks!


----------



## Greggz

Tank looks better and better as it fills in. Big difference from a few weeks ago. 

Glad to see the new plants seem to be adjusting well.

And moving stuff around is a never ending process. It seems I do it every week. When you find yourself drifting off to sleep thinking about what you will put where, then you'll know you got the disease bad!:wink2:

Keep the updates coming.


----------



## RainbowRob

Thanks G. I'll being doing the da, already saw the difference, trying to talk my neighbor out of his co2 tank and regulator in his deceased keg cooler, he hasn't used it in a very, very long time. we'll see. 
Thanks again for the info on the lights.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Tank looks better and better as it fills in. Big difference from a few weeks ago.
> 
> Glad to see the new plants seem to be adjusting well.
> 
> And moving stuff around is a never ending process. It seems I do it every week. When you find yourself drifting off to sleep thinking about what you will put where, then you'll know you got the disease bad!:wink2:
> 
> Keep the updates coming.


Yikes... I got it bad. Between plant placement and fert dosing, I always have something I am thinking of. 

And thank you for the kind words! I am really excited most all the plants took to my soup! Looking back sure is a blast. It's amazing how much I have learned these past few months, and I know I am just barely scratching the surface.


DiscusRob said:


> Thanks G. I'll being doing the da, already saw the difference, trying to talk my neighbor out of his co2 tank and regulator in his deceased keg cooler, he hasn't used it in a very, very long time. we'll see.
> Thanks again for the info on the lights.


Ha I had to laugh when when you called me G, haven't been called that much since college days! Between that and Grobbins, haha.

Good luck with the CO2 kit, hopefully he let's go of it at s good deal to you!


----------



## Grobbins48

Just a few pictures to share. Thought a few came out nice!


----------



## Immortal1

Guessing you have been following along various threads regarding using the PRO mode when taking pictures 
Great looking set! Second pic is my favorite.


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Guessing you have been following along various threads regarding using the PRO mode when taking pictures
> Great looking set! Second pic is my favorite.


Ha, yes definitely have been following along. I go between using my DSLR or my Galaxy S8. The nice thing a out the DSLR is I have a polarized lense cover that helps cut glare out. Just takes longer to upload pictures that way. 

The pro mode on my phone works pretty well, just takes adjutlating depending on where in the tank I shoot (ISO and shutter speed- mainly ISO up or down to keep the higher shutter speed). Some of the pictures are slightly underexposed, but the plants become more true to their colors. The white balance sitting has been key to getting that to work.

And thanks for the compliments! I really love the colors of the ludwigia ovalis when it touches the surface.


----------



## Grobbins48

For the first time that I have measured it's my NO3 and PO4 levels dropped by water change day. Nothing crazy, but neat to see it happen. Ended up just over 20ppm NO3 and right at 5ppm of PO4. 

Kept the same dosing as last week-- no added MG. Micros are the same, 3-4x per week. And maybe a little splash of met 14 1-2x per week.

Overall happy with where thing are as far as plant growth.


----------



## Grobbins48

Tank got me feelin' good tonight! Really like how it's looking so had to share!


----------



## Greggz

Very nice, the best so far.

More plants is just what you needed. Nice work!


----------



## Immortal1

Agree with Gregg - Great Pic!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Very nice, the best so far.
> 
> More plants is just what you needed. Nice work!





Immortal1 said:


> Agree with Gregg - Great Pic!


Thank you both! This one just felt good taking it!


----------



## RainbowRob

That's an awesome shot. Looking really, really good. I'm green(pun intended) with envy


----------



## STS_1OO

Goes without saying that this is fantastic!

Might I suggest (and in full disclosure, I haven't read thru all 11 or so pages) a large piece of driftwood to add a focal point and some more natural structure to the tank? 

Your plants look so healthy that it almost seems like a production quality grow out tank! (don't tell me that's what this is or else I'll feel stupid LOL).


----------



## Grobbins48

DiscusRob said:


> That's an awesome shot. Looking really, really good. I'm green(pun intended) with envy


Haha thanks Rob!


STS_1OO said:


> Goes without saying that this is fantastic!
> 
> Might I suggest (and in full disclosure, I haven't read thru all 11 or so pages) a large piece of driftwood to add a focal point and some more natural structure to the tank?
> 
> Your plants look so healthy that it almost seems like a production quality grow out tank! (don't tell me that's what this is or else I'll feel stupid LOL).


Thank you! And the funny thing is, there are two pieces of driftwood on the left side! Just completely overtaken right now with the plants!


----------



## Grobbins48

So a few weeks ago @Greggz had an issue where his canister was leaking into the container that holds them. Well... I had the same thing exact thing happen this week, and of course I was traveling back from out of town. My phone started going absolutely insane with messages (samsung smart things notifications) from my leak sensor. Now one thing I do not have set up anymore is that when the leak is detected it turns off the filter automatically (needed that smart plug elsewhere).

Well, I get home and there was about 3 inches of water in the container that holds my filter (3 gallons maybe). I did not snap a picture as one; I was frustrated, and two; I just got home so had other responsibilities to tend to as well. 

My guess is the apparatus that locks the intake tube and output tube to the canister had a slow leak that forced it's way through the filter head (common with SunSun). I took all apart, cleaned quick, added some vaseline to the o rings, and resealed. We will see how it goes. This was the worst so far, but not the first time this has happened. May be looking to upgrade/ second filter that is not a SunSun...


----------



## Immortal1

Sorry to hear of the situation - never much fun. I guess something I am curious about - my AquaTOP filter looks nearly identical to the same size SunSun. So, who copied who? Could one be better than the other? I will say my old Eheim Pro II filter is made from significantly thicker plastic that the AquaTOP. I have never seen a SunSun so I can't comment on them.

I guess the point being - if you like the SunSun filter more or less, would you consider an AquaTOP filter if it was the original design?


----------



## Grobbins48

The initial reason of getting thr SunSun was kind of two fold. One being the low cost of under $100 was quite attractive. Second, the built in UV was a nice feature to have. I will say the UV has helped a bit here and there with green water mistakes. That being said, I completely understand that the UV will degrade the plastic over time if used a lot, which will cause massive problems. 

So not really set on the SunSun design. The biggest drawback seems to be the way the hoses connect to the canister head. The tolerances are seemingly quite low, allowing for wiggling of the fixture and the leaking.

Not sure what I would go with though. That will require some research. Is something like an FX4 worth it? Pretty pricey it seems. If it will move the water and not leak, that's really what I need. Also, I only run one filter right now, and I know on this tank Inqould probably do better with two.


----------



## Wobblebonk

Immortal1 said:


> Sorry to hear of the situation - never much fun. I guess something I am curious about - my AquaTOP filter looks nearly identical to the same size SunSun. So, who copied who? Could one be better than the other? I will say my old Eheim Pro II filter is made from significantly thicker plastic that the AquaTOP. I have never seen a SunSun so I can't comment on them.
> 
> I guess the point being - if you like the SunSun filter more or less, would you consider an AquaTOP filter if it was the original design?


I'm pretty sure aquatop, sunsun, and marineland canister filters are all made by the same chinese company, possibly with slightly different specs but I think it's not so much a who copied who as they're from the same manufacturer and probably share more parts than not. I believe aquatop is essentially just a rebranded sunsun? I have only used 1 and it was okay but I stopped using it because I had to put it under this thing that made it a huge pain to prime as I just couldn't get a good angle to put weight on it. Now I am willing to spend a lot more to not have to ever worry about that, though I only really use a few canister filters anyhow. (As in 3 out of 30+ tanks have a canister filter. 3 sumps, 3 canisters, and a ton of sponges :/ it's just not cost effective to run 30 canister filters or sumps, or heaters)


----------



## Grobbins48

The more I look at then I would agree that they all have the same basic framework and likely produced in the same factories. 

Some canisters get pricy... wow... but I do only have two tanks to worry abou and, and the 29, worst case could run a HOB I have, though it is on a SunSun 702b right now.

Bright side, no leaking on my 55 gallon filter since pulling it apart last night.


----------



## Grobbins48

I think I need to trim...


----------



## RainbowRob

Just a wee bit, looking great, even bushy


----------



## Grobbins48

After:


----------



## RainbowRob

Awesome, I'm in a holding pattern at the moment, waiting to see what a couple rather large thunderstorms due next week. Still a bit gun shy after Irma last year. But looking forward to trying to be half that good. That's beautiful.


----------



## Grobbins48

DiscusRob said:


> Awesome, I'm in a holding pattern at the moment, waiting to see what a couple rather large thunderstorms due next week. Still a bit gun shy after Irma last year. But looking forward to trying to be half that good. That's beautiful.


Always good to have the emergency backup plan. For me, I have a generator that I can use to power part of the house, including the tanks. Now, I did it have this a couple years ago during a huge March wind storm that knocked out my power for four days, and took out many of my African Cichlids with it. I always hope no one has to experience that, but if you do that you have the right tools to make it a bit easier to deal with.


----------



## RainbowRob

Grobbins48 said:


> Always good to have the emergency backup plan. For me, I have a generator that I can use to power part of the house, including the tanks. Now, I did it have this a couple years ago during a huge March wind storm that knocked out my power for four days, and took out many of my African Cichlids with it. I always hope no one has to experience that, but if you do that you have the right tools to make it a bit easier to deal with.


I lost a lot of rather hard to get Lake Victoria cichlids last year when Irma came through. Have a generator, but that only does so much when you need it for medical devices and refrig. I happen to live in a condo on wheels as many of us "elderly>" Floridians do. It was scary. More prepared this year than I was last year. But, on a happier note, you tank is rocking. Can't wait for the next set of pics.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ah yes, Florida weather is quite a bit different than Upstate NY! Good luck, I hope everything goes well this season!

And as always, thank you for the compliments!


----------



## Wantsome99

Awesome looking tank. I just bought some black diamond sand. Are you using root tabs or just straight up sand? I glanced through the thread looking at the pics but I'm too lazy to read every post.


----------



## Grobbins48

Wantsome99 said:


> Awesome looking tank. I just bought some black diamond sand. Are you using root tabs or just straight up sand? I glanced through the thread looking at the pics but I'm too lazy to read every post.


Thank you! Up until about three weeks ago I was doing only water column dosing. I have since started putting a few osomocote plus balls here and there, not a lot thought. So far can really say what help they have given. I am sure a little boost here and there, but I have nothing scientific. 

I run rather high levels of macros which are all front loaded right after a water change, and micros are dosed 3-4 times a week.


----------



## Grobbins48

How have I never really done this view before? Looking up at the tank with only the 6,500K light on, few hours after a water change. I did pro mode it, but then decided to try Lightroom CC and see what the autocorrect would do. Looks crisp, and actually pretty close to reality right now.


----------



## Immortal1

Great looking FTS @Grobbins48 !


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Great looking FTS @Grobbins48 !


Thanks! I thought it was a pretty neat shot. Good to take a picture like this and feel good after a rather frustrating water change. Getting tired of SunSun products...


----------



## LiQuiD SmoKe

Grobbins48 said:


>


Beautiful progress. What species is the red plant? I love it!:grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

LiQuiD SmoKe said:


> Beautiful progress. What species is the red plant? I love it!:grin2:


Thank you! That is ludwigia peruensis. Nice and solid slower stem. Maybe an inch a week for me. Takes up a lot of real estate though so I am down to two stems in this tank (two more in my 29).


----------



## Grobbins48

So on the side of the road at a neighbors house was a very new looking Cascade 1000 canister filter. Naturally I picked it up, cleaned it up and tested it with a 5 gallon bucket of water. All seems well (there was also a tank stand, but no tank). Went to Home Depot and picked up 10 feet of 7/8 OD 5/8 ID tubing. I think this can be I corporate into my 55 gallon setup as a secondary mechanical filtration.

This leads to a question. How should I set up the flow? Should I do opposite sides, flowing to each other, with each other I take at the opposite side to keep water exchanging sides? Or do I keep it directional and have all the flow going one direction, but have the new intake also on the outflow side to bring water in on both sides? 

Not in a rush to hook this up, and will clean it again, but should be nice to have. Might even order up a second skimmer for the intake (the output seem decent as is). 

Any feedback is appreciated. And for those who had read this far, here is a FTS of a much needed trim and re-organizing. Gotta get on that in the next couple days.










These guys are still little










Roselines grow fast though!


----------



## Immortal1

Hopefully @Greggz will pop in as I seem to remember he has 3 canisters set up on his tank. He likely will be able to offer pros/ cons to each method to setting up multiple filters.

Otherwise, tank is looking great!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Hopefully @Greggz will pop in as I seem to remember he has 3 canisters set up on his tank. He likely will be able to offer pros/ cons to each method to setting up multiple filters.


Ah yes thats right, the three XP's I think? If I remember correctl, he does a back to front flow?


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Ah yes thats right, the three XP's I think? If I remember correctl, he does a back to front flow?


Yes, a back to front flow, basically across most of the width of the tank. In my 4' long tank, I pump all the water into the tank on the right side at the surface. It flows to the opposite end of the tank, across the bottom and/or the surface, then into the returns (surface and substrate) also at the right side. Better? hard to say.


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Yes, a back to front flow, basically across most of the width of the tank. In my 4' long tank, I pump all the water into the tank on the right side at the surface. It flows to the opposite end of the tank, across the bottom and/or the surface, then into the returns (surface and substrate) also at the right side. Better? hard to say.


So I run a similar setup, only my return is on the left ride, and the output is the right side, aimed at the surface. I do not run the spray bar anymore, just a 90° elbow output pipe aimed slightly up to create a ripple across almost the entire tank.

My thought for putting the Cascase intake opposite side was to gather more detritus thay collects under my current output.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


>


First of all....holey smokes that tank is filling up fast! 

I am thinking you are beginning to understand that getting plants to grow requires a commitment. Left too long and a well growing tank will literally choke itself out. 

Trimming will soon become a weekly ritual for you.

Now as to flow, I know what works for me, but there are lots of options. I think the important thing is to keep things moving in a somewhat circular flow. That is, no opposing flows and dead spots. 

I have spray bars aimed up to the surface, so flow is across the surface back to front, down the glass, across the substrate to the back of the tank. All of my debris ends up in the bottom back, where the filters pick up. When I vacuum, all the accumulation is right there at the very back. 

Works for me, but I'm sure there are loads of other methods that work well as well.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> First of all....holey smokes that tank is filling up fast!
> 
> I am thinking you are beginning to understand that getting plants to grow requires a commitment. Left too long and a well growing tank will literally choke itself out.
> 
> Trimming will soon become a weekly ritual for you.
> 
> Now as to flow, I know what works for me, but there are lots of options. I think the important thing is to keep things moving in a somewhat circular flow. That is, no opposing flows and dead spots.
> 
> I have spray bars aimed up to the surface, so flow is across the surface back to front, down the glass, across the substrate to the back of the tank. All of my debris ends up in the bottom back, where the filters pick up. When I vacuum, all the accumulation is right there at the very back.
> 
> Works for me, but I'm sure there are loads of other methods that work well as well.


Thanks for the feedback on the flow. The circular pattern makes sense. I'll give the right to left for both filters a shot, putting the new intake opposite the old (intskes at both ends of the tank).

As for the plants, my goodness there are some fast ones. The nymphodies tiawan is crazy fast, I completely understand pinching a few big leaves a week now! And the Ambulia, well now I know that once you have a good bunch of stems going, just toss the bottoms! Even ludwigia ovalis hits the surface every few days. Crazy the transformation over the past 6 weeks. Now I'll need to strategically trim, seeing as some of those fast growers even now are weekly trims. 

I did mix up a new batch of micros I'll start using this week. I have a new dosing sheet updated I'll post later on. 

On a side note, there is some BGA that had popped up. Strange part is, it seems to grow right in the middle of where new growth buds, then disappears when it emerges, and appears again in the buds. As I trim and water change this week I'll do a deeper vacuum, especially in the back, hard to reach places. Anyone ever have luck ridding of BGA without the use of erythromycin?


----------



## Grobbins48

The cascade canister filter is not yet setup or ready to be, though I did order the SunSun skimmer kit with tubing from Amazon, which should arrive next week.

I got behind this week and missed a water change, finally getting to it tonight (11 or 12 days between). Nothing horrible happened, just a massive amount of plant mass (@Greggz seriously these things do not stop!). I went hard at the left side of the tank, and moved the nymphodies tiawan to switch it with the myrio. This should make trimming back the nymphodies easier as the base is much more accessible. 

Oh yeah, I also really went after the s.repins. It was beautiful, but needed to be hacked back, as old bottom leaves were too shaded and starting to gather algea. I decided while trimming to rip everything out and start over. This was one of the hardest things ever to do, timing out something I have wanted to achieve so long! The roots were so deep and strong, but I still feel like clearing it out and starting fresh was the right thing to do. Perhaps more frequent trimming will prevent this rip up again for a while.

The right side of the tank still needs work, as I am not sure where I want to go with it. The monte carlo is showing signs of hope, so I'll hold onto it a bit longer. Also, hygrophila pinnatifida everywhere! Went pretty hard at it, still a ton left.

I'm starting to gain more confidence in trimming and tossing out what I don't need. Actually so much so that my 29 is no longer my holding tank, but a simpler to maintain tank (I hope). Heres a shot of it:










Nothing crazy, but not too bad for 45 min of work. 

And for the records, FTS of the 55. Not my best work, but as always the journey continues.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> I got behind this week and missed a water change, finally getting to it tonight (11 or 12 days between). Nothing horrible happened, just a massive amount of plant mass (@Greggz seriously these things do not stop!).


I warned you about that. It's the old "be careful what you wish for"........once plants really start growing, it's a whole new level of trimming/maintenance.

And I think it would more difficult in a 55G. Less real estate to work with, and less height too. 

Plants all look like they have settled in nicely. Glad to see the progress you have made, really getting somewhere now.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> I warned you about that. It's the old "be careful what you wish for"........once plants really start growing, it's a whole new level of trimming/maintenance.
> 
> And I think it would more difficult in a 55G. Less real estate to work with, and less height too.
> 
> Plants all look like they have settled in nicely. Glad to see the progress you have made, really getting somewhere now.


Ha oh I know, you did warn me! It is one of those thing where you think you understand what fast growing means, and experiencing it and living it is a whole new world!

Don't get me wrong, I am loving it. Really hethy growth and well. I just wish I had the 75/90/120 gallon 4ft tank right now! 

Side note, the micros are updated, I attached a picture of current dosing below. 










I'll be away from the tank a bit over the next two week, so this trim should last, but will likely need to go heavy again next week! Maybe the. I can figure out something for the right side of the tank and get the cascade going!


----------



## Grobbins48

Fun times have been had playing around with the tank recently. Big trim and replant, nice large gravel vac (larger than normal) and added the Cascade 1000 (but it is louder than I would like).

The flow on the cascade is tremendous, as I only have sponge filters inside it, and a tiny bit of ceramic media on the bottom to catch the big stuff (not intended as bio filter). Right now I have it hooked to a spray bar on the right side (SunSun intake and returns). The intake was too large to put at the right side with my slope, so it is behind the pogo K to have a second area to pick up gunk. We will see hot this works. Lots of flow (might need to slow it) and I'm not yet certain if I like the flow pattern. 

The Rotala mac really is enjoying the new micros. I had a bunch of stunted, and in the past week it took off. Hope this can be a sweet spot for the tank for a while, as really everyone seems mostly happy. I did have some AR that stunted, but it was one stem of five, and I needed to thin it anyways, so no worries there.

And now, really playing around with photos, including what lights I use on the tank, what pro settings, and what post shot editing. Here is a look:

Pro mode (don't remember all settings) with both lights on (rather cool lights combined)










Now the exact same photo with some post shot editing (saturation, contrast, etc.)










Now here is pro mode with just my DHL 6500K on










And same photo with the post photo edits again (same level of edits as the other one)










WOW! Pretty crazy what you can bring out in these pictures. I feel like so many times I see the bacopa colorata with that color in pictures, but only when it hits the surface can my eye see it. Same with the hygrophila pinnatifida. Now I am not buying or selling anything here as far as what you 'should' or 'should not' do from a photo standpoint, I just thought it was neat.

Just shows what both light, photo settings, and editing can do to the perception!


----------



## Grobbins48

In need of canister filter recommendations. The SunSun is driving me nuts and keeps leaking.

Requirements are easy to service(specifically 
Mechanical filtration), reliable, unlikely to leak. Thought and experiences to share? 

More of a tank update later on!


----------



## burr740

Buy another Sunsun. One in five is a dud but the other features and price point make it worth the risk - specifically the UV and skimmer. Plus they're quiet, strong, and very easy to service.

Have you tried lubing the gasket that's leaking, silicone grease it best but vaseline works too

Out of six total Ive had one that started leaking around the main gasket after about a year, just a slow trickle. Greasing the gasket helped for a month or two but then it would start again.

Anyway for 100 bucks I just consider them a disposable piece of equipment. Yes, I love them that much


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Buy another Sunsun. One in five is a dud but the other features and price point make it worth the risk - specifically the UV and skimmer. Plus they're quiet, strong, and very easy to service.
> 
> Have you tried lubing the gasket that's leaking, silicone grease it best but vaseline works too
> 
> Out of six total Ive had one that started leaking around the main gasket after about a year, just a slow trickle. Greasing the gasket helped for a month or two but then it would start again.
> 
> Anyway for 100 bucks I just consider them a disposable piece of equipment. Yes, I love them that much


This is quite the endorsement! I suppose viewing as disposable vs. equipment is a way to soften the blow (mentally). I have tried living, etc. but it seems the connector is just loose. I do have a spare one I suppose I could try and use. Also, my pre filter canisters on/off switch broke. It's a $20 canister, but I cannot find it right now on the bay. 

Whole situation just had been making me dred maintenance, which used to be much more enjoyable. Now I stress every time I touch this filter.


----------



## kaldurak

I agree with burr, buy another, but at least try the maintenance points he mentioned.

I used to be all over sun sun, but my latest canister is an eheim easy 35 because I just wanted to grab everything while i was at my LFS. I can see how people have broken the latch/handle/locking mechanism of this model of eheim....conversely I can see that by not forcing the snot out of it - it's a sweetly designed piece of kit.


----------



## RainbowRob

Grobbins48 said:


> In need of canister filter recommendations. The SunSun is driving me nuts and keeps leaking.
> 
> Requirements are easy to service(specifically
> Mechanical filtration), reliable, unlikely to leak. Thought and experiences to share?
> 
> More of a tank update later on!


Wet/Dry, trickle filter, I love them, looking for an overflow box as I type this, all sorts of cool stuff, I guess I'm old school, all sorts of pluses with those acrylic boxes.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Pro mode (don't remember all settings) with both lights on (rather cool lights combined)


Sorry missed this post on the photos above.

I like the first pic best. To me the ones with post processing look post processed. I would just stick with adjusting the brightness if needed. If you dimmed the photo above a little it would help make the background disappear a bit. 

Now as to filters, I think in many ways they are all pretty much the same. If you look up any filter and leaks, you will find plenty of stories. I think the important thing is learning how to service and repair whatever it is you have.

I've had two Rena Filstars for at least 15 years. I know every little thing that needs to be replaced, and keep extras of anything I might need on hand. I finally just replaced the motors this year, and they are going stronger than ever. 

And by the way, tank continues to look better and better.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Sorry missed this post on the photos above.
> 
> I like the first pic best. To me the ones with post processing look post processed. I would just stick with adjusting the brightness if needed. If you dimmed the photo above a little it would help make the background disappear a bit.


Thanks Gregg. I agree. Here us a shot from today after a major thinning (and common theme to your journal, I had just too much mass-- kept lots of daughter plants tossing the parents). ISO 150, WB Auto, SS 1/90. No post editing. I thought this one came out pretty good!
As to the filters, I hear you and that makes sense. To Burrs point I feel like for the money you do get a lot. I wl have to try the new connector that I have stashed, and if that is a no go I'll have to figure out next steps and not be impulsive!
@RainbowRob I would love to run a sump, I feel like a filter sock would be the best thing to change, though not sure how you pull water from the bottom of the tank too. Never ran a sump myself. Maybe one day on a larger tank!


----------



## Grobbins48

@burr740 what SunSun models are you using? I have issues with the 303B, but my 702B is working great. Just curious as you have had many of them, what models worked best so far for you.

In the meantime, I ordered up some replacement valves for the pre filter canister, as well as a larger one for my 29 gallon (smaller one gunks up way too fast, in a couple days with a 100micros filter floss, which has been taken out). I'll also replace the quick disconnect on the 303B as I happen to have an extra one. Likely will do that later this week.

Also, I see they have SunSun canisters that now has variable speeds? Only 3 reviews on Amazon, curious to know if anyone has experience yet.

Sunsun HW-3000 UV 9W 5-Stage External Canister Filter w/Media, 793gph https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BG9GBM2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_hBkVBbVMNK752


----------



## burr740

I mostly use 304B and 704B, have one 303B on the 50 gal. I put ball valves on every return line to adjust the flow. In most cases they need turning down a little bit. Except for the 303 which is running through Sera 500 reactor, which reduces flow a good bit on its own. Need to upgrade that one to a 304B really.

Other than a different casing, there's no real difference between the 304B and 704B.

I dont use the spray bars, just the open end of the return pipe. If you put both 90 degree elbows on it you can aim the direction any way you want, up down and side to side. If you use only one elbow it's a little more flow but you can only move it left-right.










Something else to pay attn to is which style of skimmer it comes with. The 304/704s usually come with the one on the right. It works 10x better than the style on the left. My 303B came with that one. It works but not as good. Doesnt always float at the right level. I believe this is the older style but some still have it. Ive seen some 304Bs showing the old style so its a good idea to make sure the one your buying shows a pic of the new style on the right.










If you're buying a new one I'd go with 304/704 and put a ball valve on the return line so you can turn the flow down if needed. Can get the valve and fittings for like 10 bucks at Lowes or wherever


No idea about that new model but I dont like the skimmer, its too bulky


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> I mostly use 304B and 704B, have one 303B on the 50 gal. I put ball valves on every return line to adjust the flow. In most cases they need turning down a little bit. Except for the 303 which is running through Sera 500 reactor, which reduces flow a good bit on its own. Need to upgrade that one to a 304B really.
> 
> Other than a different casing, there's no real difference between the 304B and 704B.
> 
> I dont use the spray bars, just the open end of the return pipe. If you put both 90 degree elbows on it you can aim the direction any way you want, up down and side to side. If you use only one elbow it's a little more flow but you can only move it left-right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something else to pay attn to is which style of skimmer it comes with. The 304/704s usually come with the one on the right. It works 10x better than the style on the left. My 303B came with that one. It works but not as good. Doesnt always float at the right level. I believe this is the older style but some still have it. Ive seen some 304Bs showing the old style so its a good idea to make sure the one your buying shows a pic of the new style on the right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're buying a new one I'd go with 304/704 and put a ball valve on the return line so you can turn the flow down if needed. Can get the valve and fittings for like 10 bucks at Lowes or wherever
> 
> 
> No idea about that new model but I dont like the skimmer, its too bulky


Thanks for the feedback Burr. I have the 'new' style skimmers (actually for a cascade canister that I picked up for free I purchased a set off Amazon, I do like them that much as well!) and they are pretty great, never had an issue with them sticking. I'll make sure I keep an eye out, but the good thing is I have three of them between two tanks. I have been running one canister on a spray bar, and the other one (with the CO2 reactor) with just the single elbow, but that is a good idea to use both of them to get it more adjustable. I do have two ball valves currently for the reactor, but that is a good idea to use them through the system, or filters with no flow regulation, and can oversize the filter flow.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks Gregg. I agree. Here us a shot from today after a major thinning (and common theme to your journal, I had just too much mass-- kept lots of daughter plants tossing the parents). ISO 150, WB Auto, SS 1/90. No post editing. I thought this one came out pretty good!


Funny tank still looks nice and full after a trim, so things must be growing well.

And I like that shot the best of the ones you posted. Very nice look there.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Funny tank still looks nice and full after a trim, so things must be growing well.
> 
> And I like that shot the best of the ones you posted. Very nice look there.


Thanks! It actually felt good to do that large trim. I have been timid about timing because I wanted to be sure I had enough of the plants, and knew how they grew in, etc. Now I have much more confidence in that, and feel like the tank is breathing a bit more, not so on top of each other (as much
as you can in a 55!).

Side note, boesemani looking good tonight. Very clear that there are two strains in this tank. This is the first time I have seen all 3 males showing off, and it is the end of the light cycle. My turquoise always show in the morning right when the lights go on.


----------



## Grobbins48

Figured I would take a stab at the new tank overview sheet that Greggz posted. I made a few minor adjustments to fit my tank, but it has the same basic feel.


----------



## Grobbins48

Some things in need of being documented here. Right now I am starting the fight against BBA, which is very new for me. It started, seemingly, after adding the cascade 1000, which had a high flow rate due to only having filter foam in it. I also went a little nighter on my fert dosing last week, and today PO4 tested at maybe 2ppm vs the normal probably 10ppm. So I feel like I got out of my routine a bit.

I also have ordered a SunSun 304B that will be coming this week. The cascade 1000 was found for free for a reason, its just junk (this specific one). So I'll trash that, and add the second SunSun (trusting the advice of the community!). Also I will be replacing some parts on the 303B currently running to try and savage it (I already have the parts, did not need to buy them). My thought it move the bio media over to the new 304B and then run the reactor off the 303B with no media and throttle the valve after the reactor to regulate flow rate (I have a 10 inch cerges, those 20's are like $40 minimum!). I am also thinking of adding an online valve on the output of the 304B to regulate flow.

Here is some BBA action. The driftwood got direct shots of Met 14 today while I was trimming (no water change, that will come Friday with the new filter install and swap). We will see what that does. 










Not looking forward to it, but I think I need to uproot and replant, stripping off the BBA leaves. Just replanted about a month ago too, but it did grow back fast and nice.










On the bright side, something is going right with the Monte Carlo, as it really has never looked better (though far from perfect). Never been this thick and bright. Pretty excited to have this going well right now.










And finally, I am reaching the point where I feel I may have too many plant species... I know, is there such a thing? It has become hard to manage good looking groups, but that hard part for me is not knowing what to cut. I think I am at 16(edit:20) right now in a 55. More to come, have not yet pulled the trigger on anything.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> And finally, I am reaching the point where I feel I may have too many plant species... I know, is there such a thing?


Wish I could help you, but I suffer the same affliction. 

PO4 from 10 to 2 is a big drop. Consistency is important, as wide swings can create issues. 

And interesting on the flow and BBA. I do believe there is a correlation. Will be interesting to see how things stabilize with the new filtration.

And all in all, tank is looking great with lots of good growth. Very nice!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Wish I could help you, but I suffer the same affliction.
> 
> PO4 from 10 to 2 is a big drop. Consistency is important, as wide swings can create issues.
> 
> And interesting on the flow and BBA. I do believe there is a correlation. Will be interesting to see how things stabilize with the new filtration.
> 
> And all in all, tank is looking great with lots of good growth. Very nice!


Yeah my fault on the PO4, I didn't think it would drop like that between the two weeks and slightly lowering my levels last water change. 

The BBA is strange, really only ever had small, little bits show up before, never full scale like this here.

Also, the BGA seems gone at this point. The erythromycin worked like a charm. 

And as always, thank you for the kind words!


----------



## Grobbins48

Gave the tank a good reset right just now. 60%ish water change. Maybe a bit more. Manual removal of as much BBA as I could, including a hard trim of the s repins. I did not replant those tops, they went in my 29 gallon which is driving me nuts recently (staghorn algae? Really???). I also went with the Greggz H2O2 preventative spray hardware and equipment method, including the BBA on the wood. That has now had glut two days ago, and H2O2 today. I feel like it should not survive. 

Anyways, the new SunSun did not come, so status quo right now on filtration. Only change is not running a micron pad at all right now. Probably goo seeing as I will be gone next week in case anything funky happens.

I also did grab the 4 Otos out of the 29 and threw them in the 55, giving me a school of 10 now. Figured they would be happier all together in a large school vs. 4 and 6 in the two tanks. 

Dosing was my full normal dose, both macros for the week as well as the day micro dose ( though come to think of it should have waited until the morning for micros maybe... oh well).

Side note- for my 29 gallon, I am not sure what I want to do. I have had nothing but algae issues with it, cannot get a scape I like, etc. I do love the cherry barbs in there, however I am beginning to lose interest in the 29 as a high tech tank. Black water seems kind of a neat idea, with some tetras and apisto pair (not the steel blue I have now...). I just dont think it would be wise to move 18ish cherry barbs over to the 55 gallon. That would be overstocked to the max. Although, I could sell off a few of the rainbows and dwindle the pack from 13. 

Who knows right now, really just thinking here and writing it down to look back at my thoughts, though community input is always welcome!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Although, I could sell off a few of the rainbows and dwindle the pack from 13.


What? Blasphemy!:grin2::grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> What? Blasphemy!:grin2::grin2:


I know!!!! I know.... like I said, thinking out loud (well through writing). 

Haha!


----------



## Grobbins48

Didn't post any photos either my last update. I have a few ideas for moving some things around.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> Although, I could sell off a few of the rainbows and dwindle the pack from 13.


I will send you a ship to address and you cover shipping.
Have you failed @ the "free" lease program??? >>>


----------



## Immortal1

Great looking tank - would never know it's only 12" deep. Nice work


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


>


Great pic of the Oto!


----------



## ChrisX

Grobbins48 said:


> In need of canister filter recommendations. The SunSun is driving me nuts and keeps leaking.
> 
> Requirements are easy to service(specifically
> Mechanical filtration), reliable, unlikely to leak. Thought and experiences to share?
> 
> More of a tank update later on!


I have a couple SunSun filters. The new 304b is still water tight, but the older 302b is on it's last leg. The plastic tabs that hold on the tubes are almost completely broken and worn away, despite being very careful whenever I unlock and remove the tubes.

If they start to leak around the tube attachment, I've decided that I will use silicon gasket sealant and permanently attach the tubes. I will also install quick connects on each of the lines.

No reason to replace the filters.. I believe with aftermarket quick connects it can be better than new.


BTW, I just caught up on your thread and didn't see it mentioned, but you could use H202 direct sprays on your MC carpet. That should make a very noticeable improvement in cleaning up the carpet algae.

Looking great! I hope my tank has as noticeable an improvement.


----------



## fishfearme

Love the tank! I'm just starting a 55 gallon and you've really given me some things to think about. Great job!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Great looking tank - would never know it's only 12" deep. Nice work


Thanks, it has been a challenge, but made me think creatively, and is now making me need to be more selective on what I will keep. As these plants mature and have adapted to my water they each need a bit more breathing room between them!


Maryland Guppy said:


> I will send you a ship to address and you cover shipping.
> Have you failed @ the "free" lease program??? >>>


Haha! Never though of entering into it before; however, now I feel like I need to hold my rainbows closer!


----------



## Grobbins48

ChrisX said:


> I have a couple SunSun filters. The new 304b is still water tight, but the older 302b is on it's last leg. The plastic tabs that hold on the tubes are almost completely broken and worn away, despite being very careful whenever I unlock and remove the tubes.
> 
> If they start to leak around the tube attachment, I've decided that I will use silicon gasket sealant and permanently attach the tubes. I will also install quick connects on each of the lines.
> 
> No reason to replace the filters.. I believe with aftermarket quick connects it can be better than new.
> 
> 
> BTW, I just caught up on your thread and didn't see it mentioned, but you could use H202 direct sprays on your MC carpet. That should make a very noticeable improvement in cleaning up the carpet algae.
> 
> Looking great! I hope my tank has as noticeable an improvement.


That is some really good feedback on the SunSun filters. Never though of bypassing the stock quick disconnect for something hardwired into the canister, and creating an aftermarket version. For the time being things are holding on the 303 with maintenance being done carefully, and tubing at more gently angles. I am excited to get the 304 running, hopefully next weekend. 

As for the H2O2 on the monte carlo, that might be a good step here soon. It is starting to really come out, and I feel like once in the past I did use H2O2 on it and the plant took a beating from it. Though come to think of it that was early on and could have also been a heavy hand of H2O2 vs. an appropriate amount!


----------



## Grobbins48

fishfearme said:


> Love the tank! I'm just starting a 55 gallon and you've really given me some things to think about. Great job!


Thank you for the kind words. What are you thinking with your 55? For a planted tank it can be a challenge to scape at times, but is still a good solution for a 4' tank where you dont have a ton of room for depth.

For example, mine is in a corner next to a window, and the stand and tank come out to line up just before the window. With a 120, or even just a 75, I would be blocking part of, or up to half the window. That is why I have been so reserved on pulling the new tank trigger!

Anyways, I always enjoy seeing what others can do and think of with the 12" depth of the 55. I tried to document what I did as best as I can, so hope something can help you! Best of luck!


----------



## nbgolds

Very nice journal — just now getting caught up with reading. The Monte Carlo carpet is looking great, for sure! I’ll be interested to follow along and see how your BBA reacts. Either way, the tank is looking really great!


----------



## Grobbins48

nbgolds said:


> Very nice journal — just now getting caught up with reading. The Monte Carlo carpet is looking great, for sure! I’ll be interested to follow along and see how your BBA reacts. Either way, the tank is looking really great!


Thank you! I am curious to see how the BBA reacts this week with all the work put in, and things back to a precious state from flow, ferts, etc. 

The only variable off is I'll be away, so won't be monitoring/ fiddling with it daily. The one thing I did different this week is having all 3 micros doses 3 days in a row. I have done this in the past, so I dont expect any negative effects. We will see later though if my hypothesis is correct!


----------



## Grobbins48

Made some progress on the BBA this week, even with being away. Pretty excited about that. Algae all around is much less than ever before, so feel like I am getting somewhere. Will need to trim a few more leaves here and there, but much better. 










Also, the new SunSun finally came. I plan to set it up sometime this weekend. Thinking of grabbing some lava rock (if I can find it this time of year) for some extra bio media and to keep them flow decent. I'll also likely put a ball valve inline on the output to help regulate also. 

MC carpet is looking good. I feel like a trim will be needed in a few weeks to keep healthy, though that will be a hard one for me to do!










Tonight did not get to maintenance, so here is a before picture. Lots of growth this past week, need to cut back hard when I can get to it. May even thin out a few species to simplify things. 

Thinking of moving the Ludwigia Ovalis to the left of the tank for one, otherwise not sure where else to go. May have inspiration while I work, though feedback appreciated.


----------



## RollaPrime

Grobbins48 said:


> Made some progress on the BBA this week, even with being away. Pretty excited about that. Algae all around is much less than ever before, so feel like I am getting somewhere. Will need to trim a few more leaves here and there, but much better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the new SunSun finally came. I plan to set it up sometime this weekend. Thinking of grabbing some lava rock (if I can find it this time of year) for some extra bio media and to keep them flow decent. I'll also likely put a ball valve inline on the output to help regulate also.
> 
> MC carpet is looking good. I feel like a trim will be needed in a few weeks to keep healthy, though that will be a hard one for me to do!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight did not get to maintenance, so here is a before picture. Lots of growth this past week, need to cut back hard when I can get to it. May even thin out a few species to simplify things.
> 
> Thinking of moving the Ludwigia Ovalis to the left of the tank for one, otherwise not sure where else to go. May have inspiration while I work, though feedback appreciated.


That MC carpet is my idea of tank goals. Really like your pics and update @Grobbins48


----------



## Grobbins48

The SunSun 304B has been installed. It is a much larger filter than the 303B, and I did not realize that the hose would be 3/4" vs. the 303's 5/8" hose. This made me think a bit on where to install the outputs. 

I ended up filling the 304 with the white filter floss it comes with on the bottom (did not come with coarse foam) and a full bag of lava rocks. I also installed a ball valve, though in my haste of installation, I turned the canister around to fit properly, and did not realize until after the deed was done that I installed it on the input, not the output. I'll need to fix this, as the flow I believe is too strong. Not really looking forward to correcting this error...

I am using the full length of the spray bar the 304 came with, which is wide and long and does not seem too powerful, but right now have a tornado effect happening in a few places. The ball valve should be able to help this. The CO2 will remain on the 303, which nothing has changed with. 

The 304 has its intake on the right side, and output on the left, while the 303 (with CO2l has its intake on the left and output on th right. I figured this would be my best best to ensure homogeneous water!



















I did a hard trim, and ended up tossing ludwigia broadleaf all together. Did some other re-arraning. The ludwigia ovalis is looking great right now as it was up to the surface. Beautiful large and colorful leafs. I ended up moving them over to the left side to get some more color on that side of the tank. I did trim them back a bit as you can see in the picture below.










Right side had a hard trim, not perfect, but something.










Four of the 10 otos hanging together.










And the FTS of the new trim.


----------



## Grobbins48

So much reading to catch up on in just a couple days! I missed the posting opportunity in many other places, but have some thoughts to post here. Both specific order.

1- The increased surface agitation of the new canister filter is absolutely gassing off more CO2 than before. Here lies my issue; the 10" verges reactor I feel can handle no more. The output has small bubbles coming out of it. Throttling the ball valve on the output and I still have the bubbles. I have yet to try running it partly closed all day, and maybe will try that tomorrow. My gauge right now is my drop checker, and my pH pen needs to be calibrated. Will find time to do that and get a good measure. Do I need to eventually upgrade to 20"? We shall see.

2- I shut off the CO2 to the 29 gallon. Decision has been made to go blackwater in that tank (timing pending). I found for the current time in my life, two hi tec tanks with essentially the same plants just did not do it for me. Also, the 29 gave me nothing but troubles. Excited to go Blackwater soon though!

3- With having only one tank on CO2 and an inert substrate, I am starting to consider the benefits of a pH controller. Just an idea, but it is growing. I know there are many systems out there to learn about, including the new one, Felix. Sti trying to learn more about that system before I commit to the Kickstarter. 

https://youtu.be/9rUbpWZaj84

https://www.felixsmart.com/#

4- What to do with the cherry barbs? I wish I had a bigger tank; they would like awesome with the rainbows in the 55, but there are 18 of them.

I feel like I am missing something, but I'll go with this for now!

Edit:

5- Noticably less pearling happening than before. Probably a result of many things; lower CO2 due to agitation, higher overall flow, and only using the DHL light right now (though to be fair that light still give me pearling, and adding FSPEC makes soda water). Just an observation (I know Greggz journal is discussing this with localised O2 saturation).


----------



## nbgolds

I think the tank is looking great, very nice after the latest trim! I thought of one question: you mention that the new canister is absolutely gassing off more CO2, but I wonder how you are measuring that (other than less pearling)? Is is just with your drop checker, or do you use a pH pen? Just something for me to consider, because I'm running both a HOB biowheel and a 304B canister on my tank, and if I end up adding CO2 sometime in the near future, I'll want to keep track of CO2 dosing as accurately as possible to see about off-gassing.


----------



## Grobbins48

@nbgolds thanks for the compliment on the recent trim!

It is interesting you ask that question; I just finished calibrating my pH pen to measure the drop and understand where I am at (had not used it in a while, so let it sit in distilled water overnight, and calibrated just now with the buffer powder packets and distilled water). Here are my findings right now:

pH 6.05- Tank w/ CO2 on for 5 hrs (55 gallon)
pH 7.40- 29 gallon tank with no CO2 on (multiple days- do not consider my baseline for degassed water)
pH 7.55- FRESH tap water, not degassed

KH for 55 gallon tank is sitting at 6 right now (down from 7 a few months ago- guessing seasonal water stuff)

Previously in June my degassed pH sat at 7.80, and my pH drop was down to 6.25 (the daily max was 7.4, so a daily swing of 1.15, and overall drop from degassed of 1.55). Again, the calibration of my cheap amazon pH pen gives all relative results. 

I currently have a cup of water from my 55 gallon hanging out on my desk, which I'll check the pH for tomorrow to find a degassed number for this time of year. I still have the pH calibration solutions also, so I can validate (or re-calibrate) and at least compare numbers relative to each other, with samples taken at the same time. Will be curious to see what I get tomorrow.

To answer your questions, the drop checker is my 'litmus test' that prompts me to investigate more. Usually it shows as a pale yellow, and since adding the 2nd canister it has been the light green color most people shoot for. I also did notice less pearling, but as mentioned in a post above, there are many factors that could be playing into that.

Overall, I believe I want to play with the new filters spray bar, allowing good water turnover and filtration, but disperse the flow a bit more. Maybe drilling out the holes as @Greggz did with his spray bars is exactly what the doctor ordered? Some of the plants are doing the tango, and I feel like they will get tired of that eventually!


----------



## Grobbins48

pH 6.05- Tank w/ CO2 on for 5 hrs (55 gallon)
pH 7.20- Tank water sitting for 24 hrs (going to continue to let it sit out)
pH 7.60- 29 gallon tank with no CO2 (up .2 from yesterday? maybe re-calibrated after yesterdays test? who knows...)

Either way, my hypothesis is that I am getting about a 1.4ish pH drop, but I'll test the sitting tank water again tomorrow to get a better baseline measure. 

Overall, things are seeming okay. I'll probably mess around with the flow on my new spray bar today- the hygrophila angustifolia is growing directly in front of it, so need to decide what to do there.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Great looking tank! Especially with it being a 55 gallon. I have one also, and the minimal depth makes it difficult to landscape, but you've done a really good job.

How do you trim the MC? Mine needs trimming, it's about 2" thick, and I wondering if I should just trim off the top or remove, clean the gravel, and replant with smaller portions of the removed plants. Thoughts?


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Great looking tank! Especially with it being a 55 gallon. I have one also, and the minimal depth makes it difficult to landscape, but you've done a really good job.
> 
> How do you trim the MC? Mine needs trimming, it's about 2" thick, and I wondering if I should just trim off the top or remove, clean the gravel, and replant with smaller portions of the removed plants. Thoughts?


Thanks Ken! 55 has been a challenge, but I believe has really enhanced my skills in aquascaping. I don't even know what I would do with myself if I have 18" or more depth front to back! What a dream!

As for the monte carlo... it has been a long time since I trimmed it. Took a while to get going, but is over an inch deep now. To be honest, trimming it makes me a bit nervous, but everything I read and watch about it says trim it down and it will grow back stronger. Seems like the roots get established and are able to send off new shoots. If anyone else has insights I would love to hear about it!


----------



## Grobbins48

Testing a post, since I cannot start a new thread...

Edit: Well this reply worked... I wonder why a new thread will not?

Need advice on Oak branches and bark in black water tank!


----------



## Grobbins48

Well... Quite a bit has changed/ happened since my last full update. I am writing this on the computer and will edit later with pictures through tapatalk (much easier for me, that way I can use the picture right from my phone!).

For starters, @Greggz it seems like the drilled out spray bar method is working well. I took the holes from 5/32" (I believe) to 7/32", as well as added an additional section I found, and wow, I must say I am ecstatic with how it came out and the performance so far. Only been a few hours, so time will tell on pH levels, etc. but the overall motion of the plants is decreased without throttling the canister filter! I also added the spray bar back on the CO2 side with the normal size openings. Overall really pleased as of now.



















The BBA has not completly receded, but is much more manageable. Really only hitting sickly leaves of plants at this point. I must be honest as well, I missed my water change this past weekend, so I am writing this 10 days since the last change. I this time there have been three micro doses early last week, and the one front-load of macros. Just being transparent here to what I have been up to!

What is also pretty cool is the extremely low amount of algae on the glass week over week. Past month has been pretty great and only needing a light wiping down every water change. 

I did end up taking the dive with the 29 gallon tank... It is now a full on blackwater tank! I am extremely excited for this journey to begin, and will decide if it deserves a journal (only will have some java moss and amazon frogbit as of my plan right now). Now with this setup came the decision on the cherry barbs... They are now added to my 55 gallon. I know, I know, way overstocked at this point, but it is absolutely stunning to watch everyone in there. I'll keep an eye on things, and if I need to I can sell off/ gift away some fish.

The blackwater tank is now home to a pair of apistogramma agassizii fire red and 14 pencil fish. Really digging the look so far!










Will also insert a few plant pictures below when I get to my phone.


----------



## Immortal1

Pictures of the 55 are looking great!
Gregg's method spray bar layout dies seem to work very well. As you noted, your tank turn over rate has not changed (same GPH), but I suspect your overall tank will be happier.


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Pictures of the 55 are looking great!
> Gregg's method spray bar layout dies seem to work very well. As you noted, your tank turn over rate has not changed (same GPH), but I suspect your overall tank will be happier.


Thanks! Feeling good about where I am at right now.

As for the flow, I am going to watch it for a while, then decide if I need to up to 1/4" holes or if this is exactly what I needed.


----------



## Grobbins48

The pH in the tank is holding at 6.05(ish) well into the CO2/ light cycle. The surface agitation is remaining strong, though not broken (before drilling out the spray bar it was breaking the surface). 

Interesting is that I am seeing an increasing in pearling today. All of this AND I have only been running the DHL 6500K 1W for the past 3-4 weeks. For the time being I am actually enjoying the less light and color... I am sure one day I will change my mind and go above the ~100 PAR... but today is not that day!

Water flow... an interesting subject for sure!


----------



## Grobbins48

Light and dark?


----------



## Grobbins48

Just a quick thought: floating plants are nitrate animals. Put about 10-12 ppm NO3 and K into the 29 gallon blackwater tank 7 days ago. Notices new growth on the Amazon Frogbit was yellowish, just not good looking (see below), so I tested the N levels, and wow, nothing at all. Comparison below is to the 55 gallon. 

Guess I need to check a bit more often right now until I can figure out where I need to be on the 29!


----------



## Immortal1

I have noticed in the past when I had dwarf water lettuce that I really needed to up my fert regiment. 
I guess think of it this way, your carpet plants are way down at the bottom of the tank and get a fraction of the light that the surface level plants get. As with any of our plants, the more light you give them the more nutrients they need and the faster they will grow.


----------



## Grobbins48

So it has been a while since the last update, probably the longest gap I have gone since starting this journal; and until tonight the most I have neglected my tank since starting this journal and going to planted. 

I had been chugging along nicely with minor issues with BBA that really were not bothering me, then I was hit with staghorne... I HATE that stuff... I had given the tank a nice 'weekly' cleaning and trim the week before Thanksgiving so it would be looking nice for the company we had-- and that was the last time I touched it (minus a small trim) until tonight. No micros, no nothing-- just feeding the fish. I am not sure if I was not into it, pre-occupied, or what it was, but I feel better now that I got after it tonight.

It is funny, I saw that @Greggz and @Immortal1 both did massive hacks to their plant mass, and that is the exact same thing I did tonight, including the removal of a few different species (I had just too many for a 55 and was losing breathing room for them all. 

Here are a few shots of where I stand now! I am once again energized to where this can go and a little bit of a new look!


























































And the blackwater tank!


----------



## Immortal1

Well @Grobbins48 - judging by your trash bag I think you might have removed even more than I did :grin2:

I like the end result!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Well @Grobbins48 - judging by your trash bag I think you might have removed even more than I did :grin2:
> 
> I like the end result!


Ha, thanks!

It actually felt really good. Once I started I just keep cutting back. That bag had to weight around 5lbs or so (wet)!


----------



## Greggz

We all have a lapse from time to time. Sometimes it's planned, sometimes not.

But the good thing is, if you roll up your sleeves, and get to work, there is not much you can't solve.

Usually involves good old elbow grease, and a good sized bag of trimmings like you had there.

Amazing what a good whacking can do to bring a tank back to life. My guess is you are back on the right track and soon things will be better than ever.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, that's a lot of trimming you performed, but the tank looks good!

For dosing it looks like you stopped for a few weeks. Have you considered getting a automatic doser? Once I installed mine I kicked myself for not getting one earlier. It's made my dosing regime so much easier, frees up time, it's very consistent, and the plants have done much better. Something to think about.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Wow, that's a lot of trimming you performed, but the tank looks good!
> 
> For dosing it looks like you stopped for a few weeks. Have you considered getting a automatic doser? Once I installed mine I kicked myself for not getting one earlier. It's made my dosing regime so much easier, frees up time, it's very consistent, and the plants have done much better. Something to think about.


Thanks Ken! I have considered it for micros to help keep things more consistent. On the macro side I front load everything after a water change and would probably keep it that way as I find it works for me an is really easy to just dry dose them (I mix them with 16oz of water then pour in).

I usually do micros every other (ish) day for 3 doses then do not does them again untill water change, which in the past worked when I was doing weekly water changes! Haha

Still, it is food for thought!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> We all have a lapse from time to time. Sometimes it's planned, sometimes not.
> 
> But the good thing is, if you roll up your sleeves, and get to work, there is not much you can't solve.
> 
> Usually involves good old elbow grease, and a good sized bag of trimmings like you had there.
> 
> Amazing what a good whacking can do to bring a tank back to life. My guess is you are back on the right track and soon things will be better than ever.


That is a really good point, that even when life gets in the way, with a little care we can get things back on track. I know for a fact there will be more times that there will be some minor neglect to come, but I'll try and plan better for it!

It felt good to get back in there and get to work. It will be a while before it's back to prime, but it already feels refreshed!


----------



## Grobbins48

You know, as I sit here taking a moment to look at the tank, one form of algae I have not had issues with in a LONG time has been GDA on the glass. For the cleaning about it was about 3 weeks or more since I had scrubbed the glass, and it really did not have much build up on it at all. Just interesting all the different phases an aquarium can go through as you try to achieve whatever your ultimate goal is.

Also, the extra space between plants, overall lower height/ plant mass has really brought the fish out! They are more active than they have been in a while. I am sure a massive water change made them happy as well!

Finally, and we will see how good of an idea this is... I have turned the 2nd Beamworks-- the DA FSPEC-- to being on for 4 hours a day in the middle of the light cycle. It has been over for quite a while, and the S. Repins did not enjoy it. They grew almost skinny and tall, vs. the gigantic bushy leaves of times before. Already I can see that insane increase in pearling from everything, and even the few stems of Rotala Mac. Var. are putting off some nice read colors and good growth (also having good fertilizers including micros is helping!).

It is good to feel re-energized about my take after a little breather!


----------



## Immortal1

Great group of pics! Really like the first 3 or 4


----------



## Grobbins48

Just for fun, here is the first video I put together on the tank. Hope you enjoy!

https://youtu.be/6AjHWPnWbqc


----------



## Greggz

Very, very nicely done. 

Love all the production effort that must have went into that.

And the tank is looking great! (fish too!).


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Very, very nicely done.
> 
> Love all the production effort that must have went into that.
> 
> And the tank is looking great! (fish too!).


Thanks Gregg. The tank had a nice look to it so I figured I would give it a shot. I actually had a lot of fun creating the video!


----------



## Grobbins48

So my true inner nerd is coming out today. Backstory- When I feed the 55 I most often shut off the filters for ~10 mim. This allows some food to float, some to sink, and I can keep a consistent feeding area in the tank. The shut of the filters is also quite beneficial as I run two skimmers that quickly clear the surface-- a good thing, but during feeding time quite counter productive.

Now what I had been doing was turning off the power strip manually each time, hoping to remember to turn it back on (only forgot once so far for 30 min, not too bad). Now here comes the nerd part: I didn't want to bend under the stand and manually turn it off, and I wanted a fail safe so it can click back on, even if I forgot about it. So here it is:

I had some extra smart plus hanging around the house (thanks Black Friday...). I run Samsung SmartThings as the main hub for my smarthome (yes... another hobby... on another forum...). So what I did was plugged the power strip that powers the CO2 (with another smart plug), both filters, and the heater into this new smart switch. It gets better. I also have programmed so that if this switch is turned off it will click back on automatically after 10 minutes! Now for a safety for water changes (as they take more than 10 min) I can still shut off the power strip itself like I have been doing! Pretty cool!

Now for those of you following along, one thing I said I did not want to do was bend under the stand to turn the power off and on (no reason other than I found a better way!). So I have paired this with my Amazon Echo (Alexa- my 3rd child, or 2nd wife? not sure...) and all I need to do is say "Alexa, turn 55 gallon filters off" and BOOM! They turn off, and 10 minutes later they turn back on!

In the world of automation this is quite simple and straight forward, but I figured I would share as the aquarium hobby still seems quite behind from the automated standpoint.

Side note- These same smart plugs control my lights, CO2, and filters. I also keep a leak sensor under each tank in the rubbermaid container that houses the filters that alerts my phone as soon as it detects moisture. At one point I even had it set to shut off the canisters if it signals water, but have since undone that (re-purposed some of the switches elsewhere- it;s Christmas time and needed to automate the tree, etc.).

Anyways- just thought I would share!


----------



## Grobbins48

As I look at the tank I have some thoughts. Not sure where this one will go, but feedback is welcomed. After the holiday season passes us I am looking to possibly change some things up with the tanks plant selection and scape. Some things I want to keep: I like the 'river bed' layout with the MC for now, the S. Repins are growing back nicely, and some other assorted plants I want to keep for sure. I also THINK I want to keep the wood for now. It gives a nice accent that I enjoy, and a place for the Oto's and Cory cats to hang out. Here are some thoughts (and pictures):

The Rotala Mac. Var., althought I do enjoy it, I struggle to grow it. With so many other species that I do well with (none of them being rotala) I may end up tossing this one. My biggest issue is my lack of anything but green!










I am working to grow back some bacopa colorata as I think that would go well somewhere and gets some decent color as it nears the surface. Also, since bumping up the lights the Limnophila Aromatica "Mini" is geeting some nice color again. That is also on the keep list. Along with the Ambulia and Pogo K. 

I do want to have more stems of Pogo K. though, and in the past have not been able to propagate it by replanting tops an leaving bottoms (maybe need to move to higher light area?), so any advice on propagating them is welcomed!










The Pogo Erectus has been doing well, and I did replant a ton of shoots for that (again, theme of fewer species with larger groups). On the keep list.

For the A.R. I lost a TON of it due to staghorne algae, but have these 4-5 plants left. They are doing well, and will hopeful help bring some reds back to the tank. On the keep list (SLOW grower).

What else I noticed from this photo, more so when I looked top down was how there is some much of the same green color, although different leaf shapes. I think the Limnophila Rugosa, Clinopodium brownie, and Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' will stay, but the Helanthium Quadricostatus may be the next one to go. Last trim I should have tossed the mother and kept the daughter plants, but did the opposite. The mother plant is tired. For the three I will keep, I need to re-arrange them a bit, and again I think larger, cascading groups may work well for the Limnophila Rugosa and Clinopodium brownie (Feedback welcomed through this whole thing!). Also the hygrophila pinnatifida I have can stay on the wood for now. Pretty cool pant IMO.










The Myriophyllum Red Stem is a fun plant that grows like crazy, however I am down to like 1 1/2 stems (the 1/2 is a stunted stem with a shoot). I am contemplating if this one is a goner. 

Helanthium bolivianum "angustifolius" can stay, it adds a nice flowing aesthetic and takes up no room. 

So I guess I have not chopped too many (potentially) and may need to go after some more species, while at the same time add some variety. Suggestions seriously are welcomed!

And finally, some bows, and a Monday FTS.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Have you thought of ludwigia sp. red for a bit of color? :grin2:
It's an easy grower and handles trimming well.


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> Have you thought of ludwigia sp. red for a bit of color? :grin2:
> It's an easy grower and handles trimming well.


That may be a good fit. I have had lots of different ludwigia in the past and it had all done really well in my tank. I don't have any currently, but maybe that is one species to swap in.


----------



## Greggz

What's your latest dosing schedule? pH drop? 

Any idea at all on the PAR? Back to weekly water changes?

The reason I ask is that some of the plants you have now are capable of more color. Things like Rotala Mac. Var., Pogo K., and Bacopa Colorata can provide some nice color, but they all need some pretty high light to do so. 

They should all be pretty easy to grow too, given good light/ferts/CO2. And same with the Myrio. Should be easy and provide another interesting color. 

Getting more color out of most plants is simple. More light. But that means getting everything else in good order, and staying on top of maintenance. 

As to Pogo K, when it's happy it should be throwing side shoots. At least that's what it does for me. I've never replanted a stump, as it propagates well without any help. 

And by the way, the Bows are starting to really show some nice color. Will only get better over time.


----------



## Grobbins48

@Greggz here is the dosing:










Back up to using both lights, but only 4 hrs of both on. No idea on PAR- no one here that I can find has one to share, and no LFS seems to have to share either. Would be nice to know for sure.

Weekly water changes are back up (2 weeks now after a 3 week slip).

As for the pogo k. maybe it needs more light to throw side shoots off. I can try a stem elsewhere and see what happens.

The bows are getting there. Using new food now, hikari vibra bites, and loving them! Everyone eats, and seems to bring out some nice colors!


----------



## CMcNam

Bows and cherry barbs, my two favorites. I almost went with a tank full of cherry barbs but decided last minute to go with bows. Looking great, and I second the recommendation for Ludwigia red.


----------



## Grobbins48

CMcNam said:


> Bows and cherry barbs, my two favorites. I almost went with a tank full of cherry barbs but decided last minute to go with bows. Looking great, and I second the recommendation for Ludwigia red.


I actually had two separate tanks, one with bows, one with cherry barbs. I decided I wanted the smaller barb tank to be a blackwater apistogramma tank, so the 18 barbs ended up in with the bows! They are working really well together, and the tank is a blast to watch. Those barbs are not shy about eating either!


----------



## CMcNam

Grobbins48 said:


> I actually had two separate tanks, one with bows, one with cherry barbs. I decided I wanted the smaller barb tank to be a blackwater apistogramma tank, so the 18 barbs ended up in with the bows! They are working really well together, and the tank is a blast to watch. Those barbs are not shy about eating either!


I find cherry barbs to be highly underrated, both the males and females. I loved the way the males would turn such a deep red and chase each other around, flashing their fins harmlessly. Even the females are beautiful when they turn a deep bronze/brown color with red and black highlights. Watching my bows, they have a lot of similar behavior. Keep up the great work!


----------



## Rush3737

Pics and video look great. Following this will be a great reference given how similar some of our systems will likely end up being.


----------



## Grobbins48

Rush3737 said:


> Pics and video look great. Following this will be a great reference given how similar some of our systems will likely end up being.


Thank you! Its a fun, never ending journey-- which is really what I like about the hobby.


----------



## Devin187

Great tank! Lovely rainbows.


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## Grobbins48

Happy new years eve everyone. Have a safe and happy evening.

Just a couple pictures; finally getting back into things after the madness of the holidays and travel. 55 needs work to get back in order. 29 blackwater got a rescape today. Trying to make it look more like a trees root system with some broken branches. I'll have to work on a better picture in the evening with less ambient light, but I think it looks pretty good for take #1!

















Adding another blackwater pic:


----------



## Grobbins48

I have been quite, yet lurking on the forum for the past month or so. Things getting in the way of making any serious progress to the tank, thought I am trying to end that now and keep some focus!

One thing that had me thinking deeper was @Greggz lowering his dosing of K, with the hypothesis that it may be interfering with the uptake of other nutrients. Others have been mentioning ratios, etc. Then I took a look at my dosing, and it really seemed out of wack to me. My K was, on average, at least 10ppm higher than my N. As I type this I believe the reason I always kept K high was when I started out I remember reading that K is_never_ an issue. Well I have been having some weird algae issues (staghorne on the plants) and BBA on the wood (which for the time being.... has been removed....). I really want to get things back into control, so I am going to experiment a bit here. I am going to dose this week (water change right now) of 20-5-25 and see what results I can achieve. I'll keep the micros of .2 FE 3x weekly.

The staghorn is quite annoying to me. I never had it before, and prior to making my 29 gallon a blackwater, when it was still a hi tec, it got hit hard with staghorn. I believe I contaminated the 55 gallon from that tank, and have been battling it since. Sometimes it is not too bad, other times it attacks. 

It is strange not having the wood in, but it was hit hard by BBA and the like. We will see how long I keep it out. Its nice to have some extra room for the plants now, but I feel the corys and oto's will miss it. I'll keep an eye on things, and foremost this tank is about the fish (albeit a lot of them in here!).


----------



## Grobbins48

So one of my LFS has a PAR meter in just found out they do one day rentals for $35. 
Trying to decide if this is worth it for one day.

It is an Apogee quantum par meter. Any feedback is appreciated!


----------



## Discusluv

I like your black-water tank, very nice. 
What type of fish do you have in here? 
Some leaves, cones, catalpa bark, etc... on substrate would look nice as well.


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> I like your black-water tank, very nice.
> 
> What type of fish do you have in here?
> 
> Some leaves, cones, catalpa bark, etc... on substrate would look nice as well.


Thank you! I have been enjoying and it is a work in progress. The wood is mopani mixed with some oak from my backyard. I just added some Japanese maple branches as well to add some details, as they are smaller, more intricate and delicate. 

The fish are apistogramma agassizii fire red pair, a dozen or so pencil fish, and 8 oto's. 

I currently have some mini catapa leaves on the substrate and do want to place an order from tannin aquatics at some point. With the mopani being so new it leaches a TON of tannins so I have not needed to add much yet! I just did the rescape to try and make it look more like a root system vs. a pile of wood. Seems all the fish are much happier not too!

Also, the dwarf water lettuce and Amazon frogbit add a nice little touch, though they need to be thinned weekly! Amazing how fast they grow!


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> Thank you! I have been enjoying and it is a work in progress. The wood is mopani mixed with some oak from my backyard. I just added some Japanese maple branches as well to add some details, as they are smaller, more intricate and delicate.
> 
> The fish are apistogramma agassizii fire red pair, a dozen or so pencil fish, and 8 oto's.
> 
> I currently have some mini catapa leaves on the substrate and do want to place an order from tannin aquatics at some point. With the mopani being so new it leaches a TON of tannins so I have not needed to add much yet! I just did the rescape to try and make it look more like a root system vs. a pile of wood. Seems all the fish are much happier not too!
> 
> Also, the dwarf water lettuce and Amazon frogbit add a nice little touch, though they need to be thinned weekly! Amazing how fast they grow!


 The way you did the wood made a huge difference in giving it that underwater root feel that is important when attempting to do a biotope. Or, at least biotope-ish . 

I like the minimal plants in here- which shows good restraint on your part. The floating plants are all you need and the because the roots themselves have such a dramatic effect. 

Do you have the three lined pencil-fish? What variety?


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> The way you did the wood made a huge difference in giving it that underwater root feel that is important when attempting to do a biotope. Or, at least biotope-ish .
> 
> I like the minimal plants in here- which shows good restraint on your part. The floating plants are all you need and the because the roots themselves have such a dramatic effect.
> 
> Do you have the three lined pencil-fish? What variety?


Thank you! Biotope-ish is exactly it, haha! Not hardcore enough to go full biotope, but loving this setup. Here is a fresh picture.










And I believe the pencil fish are Nannostomus trifasciatus. Here is a picture of them:










Really happy, healthy, and always spawning. The males get a beautiful red back color when showing off or sparing. The floating plants are their absolute favorite as well.


Also, though the a few things I the 55 were looking good today, so here are a few pics!


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## Grobbins48

For anyone who may be interested in following along a tad more closely on the 29 gallon blackwater, I have started a journal for it here.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1285537-29-gallon-blackwater-journey.html

I thought with how much I am enjoying it that giving it a place to shine might be nice. And it is planted, with floaters! Haha!

We will see where it goes, how detailed it gets, what interest it generates. But overall I find writing and sharing what I am up to is good for my hobby, and tends to give back to others as well.


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## Greggz

Great pics above!

Nice planted tank eye candy for sure!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Great pics above!
> 
> Nice planted tank eye candy for sure!


Thanks Gregg. The clinopodium brownei has been really fun to work with, and seems to grow nice and clean. I tried to take a lesson from the Burr book, planting little stems one at a time flowing tall in the back to short in the front. Man it is no joke the patience and effort that takes. I love the effect is has, and every time I attempt doing that I gain more and more respect for the hardcore dutch tanks!


----------



## kaldurak

Grobbins48 said:


> So one of my LFS has a PAR meter in just found out they do one day rentals for $35.
> Trying to decide if this is worth it for one day.
> 
> It is an Apogee quantum par meter. Any feedback is appreciated!



I would rent that in a heartbeat. 

I have not found a par meter for rent in the PDX and surrounding area - which is unlikely, there probably is one, I just haven't found the right people to ask yet.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> I tried to take a lesson from the Burr book, planting little stems one at a time flowing tall in the back to short in the front. Man it is no joke the patience and effort that takes.


That's funny. Most don't understand how much time it takes to present a tank like Burr's. It looks like you are finding out it doesn't happen by accident!:grin2:


----------



## Rush3737

For the PAR meter, I was kinda curious if a place near me would do such a thing and I googled it, and the first thing that came up was rather interesting: Apogee MQ-510: Full-Spectrum Underwater Quantum Meter RENTAL

So the plus is it's $30 and you get it for 30 days, the downside is you're without $495 during the course of the rental.


----------



## Grobbins48

Rush3737 said:


> For the PAR meter, I was kinda curious if a place near me would do such a thing and I googled it, and the first thing that came up was rather interesting: Apogee MQ-510: Full-Spectrum Underwater Quantum Meter RENTAL
> 
> 
> 
> So the plus is it's $30 and you get it for 30 days, the downside is you're without $495 during the course of the rental.


You know what is funny is I never thought to google a rental. That seems like a pretty good deal if you don't mind the hold. Might want to make sure you do it withing your credit cards billing cycle so you don't get hit with the actual charge.


----------



## Grobbins48

More to come soon!


----------



## Greggz

I like the engineering on the holder!

Necessity is the mother of invention.....nice work.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> I like the engineering on the holder!
> 
> 
> 
> Necessity is the mother of invention.....nice work.


Ha thanks. It actually work quite well for the substrate and middle of tank readings. Not so well up high with LEDs that are so close to the water surface- but that is what a hand is for!

Some experimenting and learned some today. I'm trying to arrange some screenshots and comments to post later.


----------



## TheUnseenHand

That is a Seneye, correct? How do you like it? I have one and have wondered how much I can trust it as I've never checked it against something like a Li-Cor or Apogee.


----------



## Greggz

TheUnseenHand said:


> That is a Seneye, correct? How do you like it? I have one and have wondered how much I can trust it as I've never checked it against something like a Li-Cor or Apogee.


Here's a link to a shootout between the Seneye and the Apogee. Pretty close readings, and who knows which one is really more accurate??

PAR Shootout! Seneye Reef Monitor v2 VS. Apogee MQ-510 Full Spectrum Underwater Meter - Reef Central Online Community


----------



## Grobbins48

TheUnseenHand said:


> That is a Seneye, correct? How do you like it? I have one and have wondered how much I can trust it as I've never checked it against something like a Li-Cor or Apogee.


Here is a link to a YouTube video I was watching on them earlier today. Seems pretty legit based on this one test.


----------



## TheUnseenHand

Grobbins48 said:


> Here is a link to a YouTube video I was watching on them earlier today. Seems pretty legit based on this one test.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hUkufXBb3I&t=821s


Haha yeah, I watched the same video. Amazing that even the LiCor wasn't calibrated properly.

I may need a correction factor for the sides of the tank. From what I remember of that video, the Seneye kinda fell apart at wider angles.


----------



## Grobbins48

I have been fortunate enough to have been loaned a Seneye PAR meter to get some real light readings! I am extremely excited to be doing this, and quite grateful for the opportunity.

As you can see from a couple posts above, I did rig up something with some PVC, spare plastic, and hot glue to try and hold the meter as still and level as possible to get accurate readings. The cord is always twisting the meter to the side to it needed a little rigidity and this worked quite well.

As I started with the testing—and this is the first time I have ever used a PAR meter—I wanted to establish a sort of baseline. To me that was having both lights on and the glass lids off. The filters were running, which I just realized as I type this may be the reason the readings would jump +/- 5 PAR ever second. I’ll have to do reading again tomorrow with the filters off (and please feel free to provide any other feedback on better ways to do this if you know any!).

Here are the results. The comments on placement are in each of the photos. Would love to hear thoughts, input, etc.

First here is a picture of the tank right now so you can judge where the S.Repins are. Also, the photo above shows how the readings were taken.










And here are 4 readings so far:




























And the only reading with the glass on so far (difficult to get accurate on a 55G tank with two LED;s that are only inches from the water!)


----------



## Greggz

Very, very interesting. 

The glass lids cut PAR down quite a bit. So with the lids, you are right at about 100 PAR, which looks like a good number for your tank. 

Can those lights be dimmed? Might be interesting to see how adjusting them affects the PAR.

And yeah, filters should be off. At least for me made readings much more stable.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Very, very interesting.
> 
> The glass lids cut PAR down quite a bit. So with the lids, you are right at about 100 PAR, which looks like a good number for your tank.
> 
> Can those lights be dimmed? Might be interesting to see how adjusting them affects the PAR.
> 
> And yeah, filters should be off. At least for me made readings much more stable.


They can be dimmed-- however, I do not have the inline dimmer for them. I think I saw a post/ thread somewhere where there are some cheap ones on Amazon ($6ish?) that work. Maybe I'll look around again and see if I can find and order them.

It would be nice to see what that would do, and potentially control things a bit more. Sometimes the 100 can be a bit much. I run both lights for 4 hours in the middle right now, with one light (the DHL) running a full 8 at about 60PAR when it's the only light.

I'll shut those filters off tomorrow when I play around some more!


----------



## Grobbins48

I took some time to do better readings with the filters off (wow what a difference that made from consistent readings!) and compile in a more organized way. I have also taken addition readings to understand how my tank receives light through the day, with glass lids on, based on my lighting cycle.

Current cycle is:

12pm – 2pm: DHL 6500K 1W Only
2pm – 6pm: DHL 6500K 1W & DA FSPEC
6pm – 8pm: DHL 6500K 1W Only

Main takeaways- see bottom of this post.

Here is a reference to where measurements were taken









Here are some reading around the tank with just the DHL 6500K1W on. This light sits on the back of the tank. I took the readings with the glass lids on, and the light placed where it always sits. More details are in every picture in the bottom right.

*Only DHL*
Position 1








Position 2








Position 3








Position 4








Position 5








Position 6









Here are the reading with both light on and the glass on the tank. I did the best I could with positioning, and was able to replicate the results a few times, so I do feel confident with the measurements.

*DHL and DA FSPEC*
Position 1








Position 2








Position 3








Position 4








Position 5 ( I feel is under-reported due to shadow from PAR meter holder- but good enough)








Did not capture Position 6 it seems

Main takeaways:
Overall, I am happy with what I found, and it really was as expected per the Beamswork thread with the readings. Now I feel I can make some more educated decisions on my lighting cycle when changes are made in the future. 

It was clear to me by the way the plants reacted that running only the DHL every day for 8 hours and nothing else was not going to satisfy my desire. Perfect example was the S.Repins. Under both lights for 8 hours/ day they stay very short and get FAT. I mean they were stunning. Then came the issues with the BBA and I cut back to just the DHL. I also completely ripped up and replanted the S.Repins. As they grew, they stayed thin and reached for the surface. This was not at all the look I was trying to achieve.

Now that I have this mixed lighting cycle for the past few weeks (and after another large trim of the S.Repins right before the change) I am beginning to see the growth that I would like.

My biggest issue right now is staghorn algae. I’ll have to do another post on that later, but some plants it won’t touch, others is a killer (or the plants are not doing well and attracting the staghorn!).


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> I took some time to do better readings with the filters off (wow what a difference that made from consistent readings!) and compile in a more organized way. I have also taken addition readings to understand how my tank receives light through the day, with glass lids on, based on my lighting cycle.
> 
> Current cycle is:
> 
> 12pm – 2pm: DHL 6500K 1W Only
> 2pm – 6pm: DHL 6500K 1W & DA FSPEC
> 6pm – 8pm: DHL 6500K 1W Only
> 
> Main takeaways- see bottom of this post.
> 
> Here is a reference to where measurements were taken
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some reading around the tank with just the DHL 6500K1W on. This light sits on the back of the tank. I took the readings with the glass lids on, and the light placed where it always sits. More details are in every picture in the bottom right.
> 
> *Only DHL*
> Position 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the reading with both light on and the glass on the tank. I did the best I could with positioning, and was able to replicate the results a few times, so I do feel confident with the measurements.
> 
> *DHL and DA FSPEC*
> Position 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Position 5 ( I feel is under-reported due to shadow from PAR meter holder- but good enough)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did not capture Position 6 it seems
> 
> Main takeaways:
> Overall, I am happy with what I found, and it really was as expected per the Beamswork thread with the readings. Now I feel I can make some more educated decisions on my lighting cycle when changes are made in the future.
> 
> It was clear to me by the way the plants reacted that running only the DHL every day for 8 hours and nothing else was not going to satisfy my desire. Perfect example was the S.Repins. Under both lights for 8 hours/ day they stay very short and get FAT. I mean they were stunning. Then came the issues with the BBA and I cut back to just the DHL. I also completely ripped up and replanted the S.Repins. As they grew, they stayed thin and reached for the surface. This was not at all the look I was trying to achieve.
> 
> Now that I have this mixed lighting cycle for the past few weeks (and after another large trim of the S.Repins right before the change) I am beginning to see the growth that I would like.
> 
> My biggest issue right now is staghorn algae. I’ll have to do another post on that later, but some plants it won’t touch, others is a killer (or the plants are not doing well and attracting the staghorn!).


Really beautiful. Wow!


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> Really beautiful. Wow!


Thanks! You know what is kind of funny to me is how different the tank seems in B&W vs. full color. Really give me a different view on how things are arranged. 

There is surely no shortage of things to do in this hobby!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, big difference in your plants from your photos on 12/31, the tank is really looking good today! It's amazing what can happen in ten days.


----------



## Greggz

Good to see the numbers. Should help others as well. 

Can you adjust the color on those lights? Would be interesting to see how more color would affect PAR and PUR. One thing I noticed is that the PUR value is lower than with my T5 colored bulbs. 

And I say that in relation to the photo in post #262. The tank looks great, but I think you could bring out more color, and a better separation of colors with more blue/red in the spectrum. 

But overall, I am impressed with the PAR values. Solid. Would you ever run the tank without the glass lids? I have never used them, but imagine they must get dirty or get build up on them that reduces light over time? Do they need to be cleaned a lot?


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Good to see the numbers. Should help others as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you adjust the color on those lights? Would be interesting to see how more color would affect PAR and PUR. One thing I noticed is that the PUR value is lower than with my T5 colored bulbs.
> 
> 
> 
> And I say that in relation to the photo in post #262. The tank looks great, but I think you could bring out more color, and a better separation of colors with more blue/red in the spectrum.
> 
> 
> 
> But overall, I am impressed with the PAR values. Solid. Would you ever run the tank without the glass lids? I have never used them, but imagine they must get dirty or get build up on them that reduces light over time? Do they need to be cleaned a lot?


Unfortunately I cannot change the color on the lights. The good think is for about $100 total I have 100 PAR ar substrate, but the negative is the only thing you can really do is dim the lights. 

More learnings along the way- I am happy with the performance, but knowing what I do now I wouldn't mind having invested in better and more versatile lighting. Maybe another day if/when I upgrade this tank!


I have been thinking about the color spectrum quite a bit recently too, wanting some more red. Not sure if I can achieve that right now without some serious light upgrade considerations. 

As to the glass lids I actually would like to run without them, however I have yet to make a canopy for this tank (I keep making excuses saying I'll just get a bigger tank). My worry with nothing over the tank, especially with the rainbows, is jumpers. Would love to hear what other do an their experience with open top and rainbowfish ( @Greggz @Immortal1).

I clean the lids maybe once a month? Could do it more. I use invisible glass and it makes them like new each time I clean. 

But overall, I agree that is it pretty impressive PAR levels, both with and especially without glass lids.


----------



## Immortal1

Well @Grobbins48 I can only say about my tank full of bows - have been lid less / canopy less for more than a year and have only lost a couple Panda Garra's and one Bow to jumping. In my last posted video I believe you can see the silver "jump guards" on the back of the tank. Have they helped? Can't say, but I have not lost any fish lately.

As for your lights - yes, the bonus is getting a good PAR for not much money. My biggest reason for changing to the Radion lights was the inability to generate enough blue and red. Now my PUR is in the 63% range from mid 50's with the old Satellite setup. Regardless of all that - your tank is looking great!!


----------



## Grobbins48

@Immortal1 I will need to go back and take a closer look at the video today. Maybe I'll give it a shot when I am in the office and see how it goes, thinking through how to best execute with my setup. I'll have some more evaporation too, which is a issue I dont really have right now with the 55. The 29 blackwater loses about 1/4 gallon a day.

On the other hand I'll go from 105-110 PAR at substrate to 135ish, so in all maybe the lids help in my current situation. I think 135 would be a new game.

I'll do some final measurements with the PAR meter today with the same methodology from yesterday, only this time with the lids off. Figured I should get all the measurements in that I can think of! Hardest part really is making sure I catalog everything properly for future reference.


----------



## Quagulator

You know... Them Sunblaster NanoTech T5's are cheap and could bump that PUR up... @kaldurak will preach as well.

A FloraSun T5 + LED combo is an attractive pairing 

Of course, you'll likely have to splice in some dimmers on the LED's to keep PAR in your sweet spot but...


----------



## kaldurak

Quagulator said:


> You know... Them Sunblaster NanoTech T5's are cheap and could bump that PUR up... @kaldurak will preach as well.
> 
> A FloraSun T5 + LED combo is an attractive pairing <a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
> 
> Of course, you'll likely have to splice in some dimmers on the LED's to keep PAR in your sweet spot but...


I'm in total agreement with this 🙂


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> You know... Them Sunblaster NanoTech T5's are cheap and could bump that PUR up... @kaldurak will preach as well.
> 
> A FloraSun T5 + LED combo is an attractive pairing
> 
> Of course, you'll likely have to splice in some dimmers on the LED's to keep PAR in your sweet spot but...


I'll re-read your journal posts on this, but it is a single bulb unit? So _if_ I were to do something like this I would select one of the LED units and run the single bulb? The 55 give me no space for any more fixtures on top.




kaldurak said:


> I'm in total agreement with this [emoji846]


You guys are making me thing!

The other thing I may be able to do is use some LED strips (used very early in this build) where I can control the colors. Very little PAR is put out by them, but I think it helps the reds pop a bit more. I would need to figure out a way to fix them to the current LED fixtures I have, maybe on the edged. Some pictures below for reference from testing (this is the the Red LED's and the DHL on).

Just the DHL (baseline)










DHL and Phillip's huge set to Red


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> I'll re-read your journal posts on this, but it is a single bulb unit? So _if_ I were to do something like this I would select one of the LED units and run the single bulb? The 55 give me no space for any more fixtures on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are making me thing!


The SunBlaster w/ NanoTech reflector is not even 2" TOTAL in width, I think you could sneak one on there with Both LED's?? 

Coverage is what really sparked my interest with the T5 bulb.


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> The SunBlaster w/ NanoTech reflector is not even 2" TOTAL in width, I think you could sneak one on there with Both LED's??
> 
> Coverage is what really sparked my interest with the T5 bulb.


Ohhh... so the recommendation would be 2ft over the 4ft tank, putting it in the middle center, or back center?


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> Ohhh... so the recommendation would be 2ft over the 4ft tank, putting it in the middle center, or back center?


No no no lol

You'll want a 48" fixture. 

It has the dimensions of: 48" long x 1.5" tall x 1.5" wide 

I'll get an exact measurement later today.


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> No no no lol
> 
> You'll want a 48" fixture.
> 
> It has the dimensions of: 48" long x 1.5" tall x 1.5" wide
> 
> I'll get an exact measurement later today.


Okay that makes more sense- needing to find 2 inches, ha! I clearly misread your previous post. I see 2" now (in my head saw ') and I also see clearly width! 

I'll have to do some research, and then likely need to find/ borrow a PAR meter again if I make that addition. Things to think about....


----------



## Ken Keating1

Grobbins48 said:


> As to the glass lids I actually would like to run without them, however I have yet to make a canopy for this tank (I keep making excuses saying I'll just get a bigger tank). My worry with nothing over the tank, especially with the rainbows, is jumpers.


An easy solution is four pieces of 3/4" x 4" pine boards around the perimeter, nailed together, painted black, sized to fit around the top of the frame, with small internal blocks to hold it place over the aquarium top. I can sketch someone up if your interested, it would be based on how my canopy is built. You can't have the boards on top of the frame because the fixtures won't fit. Unless you have some Olympic type fish, they won't be able to jump over this "perimeter wall". Even better is if you could round the top and corners with a router.


----------



## Greggz

Egg crate is another possible solution.

I have never used it, but know some who have.


----------



## Rush3737

Ken, I've been considering doing something similar for my 75g tank. As it stands now there are no fish in my tank, so no issues now, but once they do get added the potential issue is two fold. Along with any jumping I also have four cats to contend with, and although they have been good with water and plants I expect they (one in particular) may become more curious once fish are added, and so a deterrent from jumping on top would be nice along with the advantage of keeping the fish from jumping. With that said I'm thinking of designing mine with an inner railing along the sides to sit on the tank and then have the front board attach to each end with strong magnets. That way when I go to work on the tank instead of having to take the whole thing off I'd simply snap off the front piece.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> An easy solution is four pieces of 3/4" x 4" pine boards around the perimeter, nailed together, painted black, sized to fit around the top of the frame, with small internal blocks to hold it place over the aquarium top. I can sketch someone up if your interested, it would be based on how my canopy is built. You can't have the boards on top of the frame because the fixtures won't fit. Unless you have some Olympic type fish, they won't be able to jump over this "perimeter wall". Even better is if you could round the top and corners with a router.


This would make sense, and would be rather easy to create and make look nice. I'll have to see how this no glass test goes (~145 at substrate right now... yikes...) before I pull the glass. I also need to watch the tank temp, water loss, etc. It is about a degree or two F cooler right now with the lids off. I'll be traveling tomorrow so they will likely go back on tonight!



Greggz said:


> Egg crate is another possible solution.
> 
> I have never used it, but know some who have.


That could be an idea too. Not a pretty, but functional. I wonder what shadows it would cast, and how it would interfere with the light being LED's.

All I know is, more testing, thinking, reading, etc.


----------



## Grobbins48

This should be the last PAR info for a while, but I did want to do another round of testing with no glass and both lights running. I did spots 1-6 again, but also did some distance from water surface measurements as well.

Hopefully this can be helpful to others who use these fixtures. I may create a post to add into the Beamswork thread as well for easier finding.

All comments on where measurements were taken in the tank are in the readings.
Tank Positions








Position 1








Position 2








Position 3








Position 4








Position 5








Position 6 








Just under surface








5 inches








10 inches








15 inches


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## Rush3737

Wow, that's a lot higher from the Beamswork pair than I would have expected. With one fixture in common and another that will have very close readings I can expect my pair to have very similar output. Frankly I didn't think I had nearly that much PAR in the tank, and for the price it's tough to beat that kind of color and output, with a sacrifice to features for sure.


----------



## Grobbins48

Lot's of updates this week- As you do one thing with a tank, lot's of other stuff happens!

I took time last night to really give the tank a good go through. I noted a few times that I am seeing some staghorn and slight BBA through the tank, specifically staghorn on older leaves, and BBA on some of the rock work. 

I broke down both filters and gave them a good clean, media and all. Purigen packets still have a lot of life left in them, so no need to replace/ recharge as of right now. Everything deep cleaned except the tubing (next time I'll get to that). I have decided (and I have always known this, just have not been good at it) that I need to get into the canisters more often. Even with the different filter foam, even when I ran floss, stuff still gets into the canister. If I just commit and make it a more regular part of the routine I feel confident conditions will only improve more.

As to the pre-filter sponges over the intakes, those are a total bust (at least the ones I purchased). They are so fine the clog nearly instantly. This actually caused a lot of issues with air getting into the filters as it was sucking way too much from the skimmers. Just overall a failed attempt. I could look for some course foam to put over them, but really I don't feel that this specific tank requires them if I just stick to better canister breakdown and cleans.

The Monte Carlo was hit pretty hard by algae with too much dead growth hanging around. I took the scissors out and went after it HARD. Took off a softball side total of trimmings. What a mess it created, though it should put everything at a nice fresh start. 

I also selectively trimmed the S.Repins as some old growth left over from a previous trim were being staghorn attacked.

After I did this I also did an H2O2 blast to the rocks where there was BBA. It is only one day in so we will see how things look tomorrow, but the rocks were bubbling fairly rapidly. I don't mind a little algae on them, I actually prefer some, but they were getting a bit out of control.

Then the normal 70% water change and things are looking pretty good today. I did run the tank with no lid today and the pearling increased quite a bit. Here are a few photos of that:















































Finally, and maybe I am taking this too seriously, but I have been looking at the feasibility of the Sunblaster NanoTech T5 HO with possibly the FloraSun bulb (thanks @Quagulator - haha). Here is a shot showing the room I can make on the tank. Any thoughts on if I could make it work? I may be venturing into dangerous territory (and I'll read and research some more) but it also seems fun!


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## Greggz

Oh my you have really caught the disease!:wink2:

I know all the things you are going through. Did you ever imagine this hobby would get so complicated? I didn't.

I really like all the directions you are going. Looks like a good deal of experimentation and searching for the sweet spots. And it looks like it is paying off. Great pics and plants are looking better and better. 

Watch out with all that pearling. The right amount is good, too much tells me I am right on the edge. Might need to back it down just a notch. 

Yours is a perfect example of there being more and more better tanks here all the time.


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## Quagulator

Hahaha loads of room for a SunBlaster  

What I did with mine was run the T5 directly over the rear stem plants and now run my LED’s of the centre / front of the tank. The stems were “leaning” in towards the main LED so the T5 directly above them “straightened” them back out. 

Good thing with DIY lights is you can move them around quite a bit. 

In your case the T5 may be used for increasing PUR (you have loads of PAR already). 

Looking back at my journal I can clearly see an immediate response to the T5 compared to the LED in terms of plant colour. Literally an instant response, exactly what I was after (red stem plants popped within 24 hours).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Oh my you have really caught the disease!:wink2:
> 
> I know all the things you are going through. Did you ever imagine this hobby would get so complicated? I didn't.
> 
> I really like all the directions you are going. Looks like a good deal of experimentation and searching for the sweet spots. And it looks like it is paying off. Great pics and plants are looking better and better.
> 
> Watch out with all that pearling. The right amount is good, too much tells me I am right on the edge. Might need to back it down just a notch.
> 
> Yours is a perfect example of there being more and more better tanks here all the time.


Yeah, it was fun to see what would happen with no lids today, but I think they will go back on for the time being. As I experiment and either add or don't add another light we will see where I go. Inline dimmer or two on the two LED's would be needed. Don't feel like I really need 150 PAR at substrate right now!

And thanks for the kind words on the tank!




Quagulator said:


> Hahaha loads of room for a SunBlaster
> 
> What I did with mine was run the T5 directly over the rear stem plants and now run my LED’s of the centre / front of the tank. The stems were “leaning” in towards the main LED so the T5 directly above them “straightened” them back out.
> 
> Good thing with DIY lights is you can move them around quite a bit.
> 
> In your case the T5 may be used for increasing PUR (you have loads of PAR already).
> 
> Looking back at my journal I can clearly see an immediate response to the T5 compared to the LED in terms of plant colour. Literally an instant response, exactly what I was after (red stem plants popped within 24 hours).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Okay, makes sense. I'll need to keep thinking through what to do and where to go with things. It is crazy tempting though to boos PUR and get some more reds out of the plants... you did a great job in your journal documenting the changes from adding the T5!


----------



## Grobbins48

With all my years off keeping aquariums I have never had a temperature controller for any of my tanks, and to date have yet to have an issue (knocks on wood). I did think it was time with all that I have invested into two tanks to give a little insurance policy. 

They are just cheaper Azoo units, the Micro Temperature Controller. My thought is to use it as a fail safe (set about 1 degree C above where I want the tank) and let the heater set the temperature. I am not sure if this is the proper use, but I have the 55 set to 26 C right now with the shutoff at 27. I think I should probably be at 25 C ideally, but they were just installed and I did bump the temp slightly. I also added a new sticker thermometer just to see where things were at. Really new, but so far seem decent. Would love to hear from anyone else who has experience with this unit, or temp controllers in general.










Over in Ken's journal we have been talking about tank sized, and the idea of upgrading. I wanted to share a few pictures of where I am at and thinking. 

When you look here you can see that a 75G at 18' deep would SLIGHTLY overlap the window, but a 120G at 24" deep would go a bit over a quarter into the window. This paired with being on the 1st floor and having the basement under me, leads me to think a 75G is the biggest I _should_ go without structural modifications in mind. The floor joists do run parallel to my 55.










The final thought though, is the tank is in the corner of the house next to two load bearing walls.... so there is a bit more strength in this area (but I also have an L shaped desk right next to it... Thought part of me wished I got a smaller desk on only one wall for more tank space.. HA!).


----------



## Ken Keating1

From the basement, how accessible are the joists? Accessible enough to double up the joists or to add a supporting jack? 

Regarding the window, the curtain is already covering 1/4 of the window, so it does not appear much would be lost if the aquarium covered the window. Heck, just drill a hole in the bottom front side of the tank, install a ball valve, open the window and your good to go for WCs!!!

I've just installed an Ink Bird controller on my wife's tank. One huge advantage of controllers is one quick look and you see what the temp is, plus it comes with a over and under temp alarm, I'm definitely hooked on them.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> From the basement, how accessible are the joists? Accessible enough to double up the joists or to add a supporting jack?
> 
> Regarding the window, the curtain is already covering 1/4 of the window, so it does not appear much would be lost if the aquarium covered the window. Heck, just drill a hole in the bottom front side of the tank, install a ball valve, open the window and your good to go for WCs!!!
> 
> I've just installed an Ink Bird controller on my wife's tank. One huge advantage of controllers is one quick look and you see what the temp is, plus it comes with a over and under temp alarm, I'm definitely hooked on them.


Quite accessible... wide open. Here is a picture.




















And way to be an enabler... now not only do I still want the 120, I want it with a sump and a quick drain bulkhead with ball valve out the window!!! It is fun to plan, isn't it?

And thanks for the feedback on the controller. I already really like looking up and seeing the temp in actual numebrs (though it is making me brush up on Celsius, as these don't have degrees F!)


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, that's a busy basement corner!! Notches and big holes in the joists, and an electrical panel right underneath, you're not making this easy! What's the dimension from basement floor to the underside of the joists?

Funny on the enabler part, I just what you to change your aquarium out first so I can learn what to and what not to do!!


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## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Wow, that's a busy basement corner!! Notches and big holes in the joists, and an electrical panel right underneath, you're not making this easy! What's the dimension from basement floor to the underside of the joists?
> 
> 
> 
> Funny on the enabler part, I just what you to change your aquarium out first so I can learn what to and what not to do!!


It is busy, and yes the electrical is a joy being under an aquarium!

It is just over 7 ft to the bottom of the joists.

The first two are 7 on center, balance are 16.


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## Ken Keating1

OK, that 7' height is good to work work with, so it looks doable. Because of the holes and notches though, I'd recommend you sketch up the details, take lots of photos, and approach a licensed structural engineer and see what he would charge to determine if the floor is adequate, and if not what upgrades are required. I work with numerous structural engineers, so don't hold back if you have any questions.

When are you going to start a new thread titled "Grobins48 120 Gallon Tank Journal"?

Boy, talk about an enabler!!!


----------



## Greggz

Come one guys you might as well just get it over with.

Both of you would look good in a 120G!

And in my experience, once you start looking at the basement and measuring out sizes..............it's pretty much a done deal.:wink2::wink2:

Looking forward to see where this goes (and that means you too Ken).


----------



## Rush3737

Greggz said:


> Come one guys you might as well just get it over with.
> 
> 
> 
> Both of you would look good in a 120G!
> 
> 
> 
> And in my experience, once you start looking at the basement and measuring out sizes..............it's pretty much a done deal.:wink2::wink2:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to see where this goes (and that means you too Ken).


Guess this is the one time to be thankful not to have a basement. [emoji14]

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> OK, that 7' height is good to work work with, so it looks doable. Because of the holes and notches though, I'd recommend you sketch up the details, take lots of photos, and approach a licensed structural engineer and see what he would charge to determine if the floor is adequate, and if not what upgrades are required. I work with numerous structural engineers, so don't hold back if you have any questions.
> 
> When are you going to start a new thread titled "Grobins48 120 Gallon Tank Journal"?
> 
> Boy, talk about an enabler!!!



Ohh boy... It will take some thought and planning. We will see if/ when ever it happens, but likely will be months off. As for the journal, maybe I'll have to do like @burr740 and name it 55 Gallon Rainbow (Now with 2.2x more water!).



Greggz said:


> Come one guys you might as well just get it over with.
> 
> Both of you would look good in a 120G!
> 
> And in my experience, once you start looking at the basement and measuring out sizes..............it's pretty much a done deal.:wink2::wink2:
> 
> Looking forward to see where this goes (and that means you too Ken).


A 120 would look nice...

If I recall, a few months back when Burr set up the aquasoil tank you mentioned you may have a second tank going up over the winter... Well, it is winter, and past the holiday! 

I can be an enabler to others too! :wink2:


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> If I recall, a few months back when Burr set up the aquasoil tank you mentioned you may have a second tank going up over the winter... Well, it is winter, and past the holiday!
> 
> I can be an enabler to others too! :wink2:


Touche my friend!


----------



## chayos00

Yeah Greggz, when's that resealed tank being put up?! 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

Before I jump into the land of a larger tank, I am seriously considering the SunBlaster NanoTech T5HO single unit. It comes with a 6400K bulb in it, but to the point @Quagulator made he was/ I am looking to bring out some more red in my plants.

That being said he suggested the ZooMed FloraSun 5000K lamp. Looking through his journal the results were wonderful and seems like a great option.

This is where I am seeking some other opinions on bulbs to run, and wondering if @Greggz and @burr740 would be willing to add a couple pennies worth of thoughts, as this is a brand new world for me. I did go back and read through your guys journals on different bulbs you have used, and noticed one, the Powerveg 633, or similar. Not sure if this is too much red, or really what I am doing yet.

I would like to continue to run the two Beamsworks fixtures that give me around 6-7000K with the glass on and 8 - 9000K light with the glass off when both running according to the Seneye. I would also grab an inline dimmer or two for the LED fixtures (or maybe need to research another controller and see if I can control channels on the Beamswork fixtures vs. on and off- is it worth it/ can it be done relatively easily?). I would like to eventually switch to not running the glass lids I think, and will likely create some sort of fixture like @Ken Keating1 mentioned a few posts back. 

Early stages of learning, but any feedback and thoughts are appreciated!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Great post @Grobbins48, I'll be following the responses closely as I also want to add a SunBlaster NanoTech T5HO single bulb unit. I have a little concern I'll end up having too much light but with this hobby one really doesn't know unless we experiment and see the results.


----------



## burr740

With that much PAR already I'd probably look into using LED color strips because thats all you really need is better color

One Sunblaster is going to add a ton of PAR especially sitting right on top even with the LEDs. Think 50 at least, maybe more depending on the bulb

Another thing about the Sunblasters is the reflector doesnt extend down all the way to cover the bulb, which means a ton of light spillage. This wont matter if you have it in the middle of those two LEDs, or in back. But say in front or just hanging by itself, couch viewing could be very unpleasant. It would be for me at least. All depends on how you incoroprate it, just some thing to keep in mind.

As for bulbs. The zoomed flora, or pretty much any aquarium brand with "flora" in the name is going to help color. You'll just have to try one and see how you like it

Powerveg 633 is a very strong red. Might be too much without another strong blue to balance it out. But maybe not. Ive never seen one between two daylight LEDs so idk really

Corlaife Colormax might be a good option. Generally I feel like Coralife bulbs are overpriced junk. But the colormax has very good rendition, really brings out the colors - and its very low par, relatively speaking. Might be just the ticket.

Another option is replace one of the Beamswork with a Finnex Monster Ray. Or it might even fit in between those two, it'd be close. Its a color enhancing unit designed to use along with a daylight. Vin had one on his Dutch along with a BML and it made a huge difference. That's the only tank Ive ever seen one used but its a really good look.


----------



## Ken Keating1

burr740 said:


> One Sunblaster is going to add a ton of PAR especially sitting right on top even with the LEDs. Think 50 at least, maybe more depending on the bulb



Wow, that's a lot of PAR for a single lamp. I didn't realize they put out that much.


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> With that much PAR already I'd probably look into using LED color strips because thats all you really need is better color
> 
> One Sunblaster is going to add a ton of PAR especially sitting right on top even with the LEDs. Think 50 at least, maybe more depending on the bulb
> 
> Another thing about the Sunblasters is the reflector doesnt extend down all the way to cover the bulb, which means a ton of light spillage. This wont matter if you have it in the middle of those two LEDs, or in back. But say in front or just hanging by itself, couch viewing could be very unpleasant. It would be for me at least. All depends on how you incoroprate it, just some thing to keep in mind.
> 
> As for bulbs. The zoomed flora, or pretty much any aquarium brand with "flora" in the name is going to help color. You'll just have to try one and see how you like it
> 
> Powerveg 633 is a very strong red. Might be too much without another strong blue to balance it out. But maybe not. Ive never seen one between two daylight LEDs so idk really
> 
> Corlaife Colormax might be a good option. Generally I feel like Coralife bulbs are overpriced junk. But the colormax has very good rendition, really brings out the colors - and its very low par, relatively speaking. Might be just the ticket.
> 
> Another option is replace one of the Beamswork with a Finnex Monster Ray. Or it might even fit in between those two, it'd be close. Its a color enhancing unit designed to use along with a daylight. Vin had one on his Dutch along with a BML and it made a huge difference. That's the only tank Ive ever seen one used but its a really good look.


This is very interesting. I have some Phillips Hue LED strips that I can run on the tank. Give off very little PAR, but did enhance the color of the plants when set to just red. Over a few days of new growth I wonder if this would help them red up even more? Good thing is I can try this at essentially no cost, just need to rig something up to mount the lights temporally. If this works that would be great. 

And I am with Ken- I had no idea I was looking at adding ~ 50 PAR. I would likely need to dim the Beamswork fixtures substantially to land back at that 110-120 ish area. That is on hesitation of running with no glass right now, is the 145 PAR at substrate as it sits today.

I really appreciate the feedback, and information on the bulbs. Either way it is fun to learn about. I'll also have to take a look at Vin's tank with the Monster Ray. The color enhancing is really what I am looking for when it boils down to it.


----------



## burr740

I ran a few single bulb tests a couple years ago just to compare PAR between bulbs. Using the hydroponic fixture about 6" above a 75. Various bulbs ranged from 45 to the upper 60s. 

Im not sure why having 60 from one doesnt translate to 240 from all four (maybe somebody can explain it) but thats what they measured individually.

The reflectors in these hydroponic units are good but not as good as the sunblaster

So either way you'd see a very large increase, probably more than you want, especially having it sit right on top


----------



## kaldurak

Just want to chime in that I am also running a Sunblaster t5ho with a zoomed flora sun bulb - extremely happy with the color results I have been seeing over the weeks. My plants that turn Red or orange or yellow all darkened in their color within a few days of starting the t5ho. My regular Ludwigia almost looks like burnt orange/yellow. My limno aromatica is a gorgeous magenta. The Ludwigia super red looks like blood under the lights.
@Greggz seneye just arrived via @Grobbins48 yesterday, so I finally get to find out my par levels. Thank you both!
@Greggz I shipped you some plants yesterday!
@Grobbins48. Pm me your address and I'll ship you stuff from my tank as well. RAOK style - free plants and free shipping.


----------



## Grobbins48

@kaldurak glad you got it- curious to see what you come up with for PAR and PUR levels when you can post details. And more feedback on the Sunblaster is always a good thing- I'll need to keep thinking on this one and see where it goes. 

The red LED's are on the tank right now. Not doing a whole ton of work, but I'll snap some pictures later and see where things go. It is the same fixture from earlier in the tank journal with the Phillips Hue lights- right now just balancing between the two Beamswork fixtures. Short term solution to see how things look.


----------



## Ken Keating1

kaldurak said:


> Just want to chime in that I am also running a Sunblaster t5ho with a zoomed flora sun bulb - extremely happy with the color results I have been seeing over the weeks. My plants that turn Red or orange or yellow all darkened in their color within a few days of starting the t5ho. My regular Ludwigia almost looks like burnt orange/yellow. My limno aromatica is a gorgeous magenta. The Ludwigia super red looks like blood under the lights.


Thanks Kaldurak, you sold me on the Flora Sun. I have similar plants and I like your results.
@Grobbins48 : Looks like your are quite the enabler yourself!! I just placed the Amazon orders for the Sunblaster and Flora Sun, they're supposed to be here on Thursday, I can't wait!

I'll post the before and after PAR results in my Journal this weekend.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Thanks Kaldurak, you sold me on the Flora Sun. I have similar plants and I like your results.
> 
> @Grobbins48 : Looks like your are quite the enabler yourself!! I just placed the Amazon orders for the Sunblaster and Flora Sun, they're supposed to be here on Thursday, I can't wait!
> 
> I'll post the before and after PAR results in my Journal this weekend.


Happy to help :wink2::grin2:

Really looking forward to seeing what you end up with for the results and the looks. I am trying to not be too impulsive right now, but I will say that those two items are sitting in my cart, ha!

On a serious note thought, I'll need to have the dimmers come in, and will likely need to use a PAR meter again if I go this route.


----------



## Quagulator

Damn.... I need to get my hands on a PAR meter now... 

Unless.... You guys can get me some SunBlaster w/ FloraSun Readings... I could add that on top of my Fluval 2.0.... But then there is my 90 gal running 2 x FloraSun's (worse reflectors than the SunBlaster tho....) and a Fluval.

A screw it, any Canadian followers here with connections to a PAR meter send me a PM


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Damn.... I need to get my hands on a PAR meter now...


This is how I feel again now that I have used one and am thinking about making some changes- I can completely see the value of it. I can also see it sitting in a drawer for a while once things get dialed in!

Looking forward to seeing some of the other readings from these fixtures over the next few days.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> On a serious note thought, I'll need to have the dimmers come in, and will likely need to use a PAR meter again if I go this route.


That was exactly my thought. Might be making a complete circle and coming back your way. 

As to the bulb, any of the Flora types should be a nice addition. 

Problem with the Powerveg 633/660 is that they are SO red. You really need some blue/purple to balance them out, or it might be overwhelming. 

Interesting to see the difference adding just a single T5HO has made to a few tanks here. Great stuff to follow and looking forward to seeing how it works out for you (since we both know you are ordering the sunblaster!).:wink2:


----------



## Ken Keating1

Quagulator said:


> Unless.... You guys can get me some SunBlaster w/ FloraSun Readings... )


My Sunblaster and Flora Sun are supposed to be here on Friday, I'll take some readings and post in my Journal the results, either Friday night or Saturday morning. I'll mention you and Grobbin48 so you'll receive a notification. Since substrate depth and height of our tanks will vary, @Quagulator and @Grobbins48, post some dimensions of where you want the measurements taken so they'll be applicable towards your tanks.

If the PAR readings are high, most likely I'll start off with them being on only a few hours a day and slowly increase the hours depending on the results. I'd hate to start them off at six hours a day(my tanks photo period) and then have a bunch of algae a week later.


----------



## Quagulator

Ken Keating1 said:


> post some dimensions of where you want the measurements taken so they'll be applicable towards your tanks.


Mine is towards the back of the tank and 2" above water surface. Open top = No glass lid

Tank: 36" L x 12" W x 14" T

So:

Directly under the bulb up to 16" depth. 
Increments outward up to 12" from directly under the bulb @ various depths. I can add my Fluval PAR to these values within the overlapping areas (might be a scary high number).


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> That was exactly my thought. Might be making a complete circle and coming back your way.
> 
> As to the bulb, any of the Flora types should be a nice addition.
> 
> Problem with the Powerveg 633/660 is that they are SO red. You really need some blue/purple to balance them out, or it might be overwhelming.
> 
> Interesting to see the difference adding just a single T5HO has made to a few tanks here. Great stuff to follow and looking forward to seeing how it works out for you (since we both know you are ordering the sunblaster!).:wink2:


Thanks for the additional thoughts Gregg. And perhaps it will circle back... You are getting to know me pretty well! I feel like many of us have just enabled each other over the past few days between tanks and lights. Should make for an interesting and fun couple of weeks coming up! Talk about a support system!:laugh2:



Ken Keating1 said:


> My Sunblaster and Flora Sun are supposed to be here on Friday, I'll take some readings and post in my Journal the results, either Friday night or Saturday morning. I'll mention you and Grobbin48 so you'll receive a notification. Since substrate depth and height of our tanks will vary, @Quagulator and @Grobbins48, post some dimensions of where you want the measurements taken so they'll be applicable towards your tanks.
> 
> If the PAR readings are high, most likely I'll start off with them being on only a few hours a day and slowly increase the hours depending on the results. I'd hate to start them off at six hours a day(my tanks photo period) and then have a bunch of algae a week later.


Thanks Ken. My substrate is 2-3 inches deep on the left, so 15 to 16 inches is great. The other reading would be about 10 inches with a 4 or so inch front offset for the monte carlo carpet area on the right of my tank. Looking forward to seeing these readings... And perhaps hitting 'Buy' in my cart...


----------



## Quagulator

@Grobbins48

Here are some snap shots of my SunBlaster, you can judge the spillover for yourself:


----------



## Grobbins48

@Quagulator thank you for sharing this! Really seems like it is doing a world of good for you- good color, and seems like not horrible spill. Nothing worse than I have right now with the DA FSPEC being in the front raised up about 3 inches with its mounting brackets.

I cannot tell from these pictures, but how are you mounting this to the tank? Are you using the side brackets (it looks like its low to the water).


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> @Quagulator thank you for sharing this! Really seems like it is doing a world of good for you- good color, and seems like not horrible spill. Nothing worse than I have right now with the DA FSPEC being in the front raised up about 3 inches with its mounting brackets.
> 
> I cannot tell from these pictures, but how are you mounting this to the tank? Are you using the side brackets (it looks like its low to the water).


I'll grab a pic when I stop in at home for lunch 

Stay tuned....


----------



## Quagulator

@Grobbins48

Glued walnut wood scraps into a framed bracket that sits on the rim of the tank, 2.5" above. Painted with black Tremclad rust paint and then sealed it with Tremclad outdoor UV resistant clear coat. Small overlap at all 4 corners ensures it does not move forward or backward, nothing is stopping it from sliding left to right. BUT --- There is a single strip of wood attaching the left and right sides at the back of the bracket at the tank rim height with a small tab that presses against the tank rim and acts as a small brace (the connecting piece flexes the wood tab against the back of the tank rim to "hold" it in place). The SunBlaster also acts as a brace connecting the left and right sides together .. I purposely let the mounting screws pull the bracket inwards a bit, notice in the first picture how the legs are not flush with the tank rim corner like I originally had them because I pulled them in using the SunBlaster mounting brackets / screws (second / third picture).


----------



## Grobbins48

@Quagulator, this is quite helpful, thank you for sharing. Nice setup with the fixture to hang the lights on.


----------



## Grobbins48

Been a while since I posted all the parameters, and finally converted over to the new sheet. I think this is the first time I have readings for everything.


----------



## ipkiss

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks for the additional thoughts Gregg. And perhaps it will circle back...


I like it. 

Brotherhood of the traveling par meters.

I'm laying claim to that name and its variations right here when someone comes along to make that movie.


----------



## Rush3737

Grobbins, a lighting question since our setups are so closely related. 

I see you currently run 8 hours total between the two fixtures, but with only 4 hours overlap.

I currently run 8 hours total but with 7.5 hours overlap (one fixture from 1-8:30, other from 1:30-9).

Did you at some point run them both 8 hours, or with more overlap similar to my setup? If so what got you to change and what were the positive results that have you sticking with that now?


----------



## Ken Keating1

@Grobbins48, @Quagulator : Bad news, the Sunblaster did not arrive today, it got storm delayed due to snow over the Sierra's. It's supposed to arrive on Monday.


----------



## Greggz

Ken Keating1 said:


> @Grobbins48, @Quagulator : Bad news, the Sunblaster did not arrive today, it got storm delayed due to snow over the Sierra's. It's supposed to arrive on Monday.


Monday's a Holiday.........good luck!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Greggz said:


> Monday's a Holiday.........good luck!


I've have it on will call to pick it up in West Sacramento at the UPS Distribution Center. UPS does not observe Monday's holiday. But the issue is the PAR meter technician may be up skiing on the slopes on Monday!


----------



## Grobbins48

Rush3737 said:


> Grobbins, a lighting question since our setups are so closely related.
> 
> I see you currently run 8 hours total between the two fixtures, but with only 4 hours overlap.
> 
> I currently run 8 hours total but with 7.5 hours overlap (one fixture from 1-8:30, other from 1:30-9).
> 
> Did you at some point run them both 8 hours, or with more overlap similar to my setup? If so what got you to change and what were the positive results that have you sticking with that now?


Good question! I have tried running just one fixture for 8 hours, as well as both for 8 hours. Initially bother were running. This was a few months back. Things were doing really well for a while but then I had a pretty rough BBA outbreak. I was also traveling a lot and didn't have the best maintenance happening. I cut down to just the DHL for a while to tackle these issues. The problem I faced when I did this are the plants were growing more leggy, specifically the S.Reppins were not nice a bush (previously were huge a beautiful). 

Adding the DA FSPEC back on for 4 hours in the middle has helped the overall growth to be more bushy. Still finishing fighting some algae issues (doing pretty well) before I bump it up anymore (and/or add the sunblaster... plus waiting on some readings!). 

This also has me thinking... In my office there is plenty of ambient light. I do not have the lights go on until Noon for more viewing time through the day. When lights do go on many of them are bent forward trying to grab the ceiling light. This is fine, as in the first hour they are upright again, but my question is, by the 6.5-7th hour, the plants seems to be getting ready to close up. I wonder if the ambient light is using some of their time for collecting light and stimulating growth? Maybe I am overthinking this (they plants are almost all doing really well right now).




Ken Keating1 said:


> I've have it on will call to pick it up in West Sacramento at the UPS Distribution Center. UPS does not observe Monday's holiday. But the issue is the PAR meter technician may be up skiing on the slopes on Monday!


This is a pretty good reason. I'll likely be digging out of 24" of snow here! Supposed to hit about 1pm this afternoon through all day tomorrow!


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## Grobbins48

Took around two hours today to completely overhaul the tank- Nearly every plant was taken out, trimmed of any leaves that were issues, etc. and replanted.










I also did some rearranging when doing this too. I will say it felt really good to do this overhaul. Here are some pictures and descriptions below:

Completely uprooted the S.Repins. By hand trimmed each leaf off that had algae on it separating bunches of stems in to smaller bunches or singles and then replanting. Should take a few weeks to root solid again, but pretty pleased with out it came out today after doing something so invasive.










Clinopodium brownie is one of the only plants (beside Monte Carlo... for obvious reasons) that I did not uproot today. Is is growing really well and has many offshoots. Decided to let it go for another week or so before I pull it up. This plant is in my top 5 for sure- nice shape and color, and grows amazing in my tank. 










The Limnophila Rugosa has been working out really well. Trimmed all bad leaves, some stem shortening, side shoot replanting, and moving placement in the tank. I think this will be good placement for a while.

The Bacopa Colorata is starting to show some nice life to it. Again here (common theme today) removed any leaves with any algae, trim, and plant in a slightly different space. Trying to use the color of it to break up the abundance of green all over the tank. I would say, especially for me not letting it grow too tall yet, that the color is pretty decent (better in person thatn I captured with the camera today). Now I know a T5 HO flora bulb would help... In time :wink2:










The AR has been struggling a bit overall for me. I continued to get staghorn and slight BBA on old leaves. I took off anything that had any sort of issue, shortened them, and gave them 'better' placement in the center middle of the tank. This plant used to be rock solid for me- so hope I can bring it back to that status. I really like have at least one super red plant.

Pogo. K is doing well. A few small offshoots were starting at the base of a few, so I cut the main stem off and left the rooted section the replanted the tops. Hopefully the shoots will continue to grow, as I have only been able to top these so far- no propagation for me here yet.










Ambulia is rocking as always. I have been letting this send many offshoots to get it very nice a full- and have no issues in doing so. The Limnophila Aromatica "Mini" is doing amazing over in the corner, and has a really neat growing pattern. I did rip everything out, trim and then replant. 










Here is the before FTS:










And here are two shots after.

This one is just the DA FSPEC:










This is both:










One other thing that I did was swap the DA FSPEC to the back and make that the 8 hr light, and put the DHL up front as the 4hr light. Not sure if it will do anything, but seeing as I am taking my time on the Sunblaster (at least a week maybe... we will see) I figured it would be interesting to see what happens. 

And for fun- here are a few other shots.

What I think is a stunning female boesemani










Some other shots




























And some of the cherry barbs


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## Greggz

Nice update.

I like the maintenance routine. Your tank will be better off for it.

And not so sure that is a female Boesemani. Time will tell.


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## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> Took around two hours today to completely overhaul the tank- Nearly every plant was taken out, trimmed of any leaves that were issues, etc. and replanted.


You are doing way better than I.
Hour 6 now and it's going to be a long evening.

My yearly tank clean up on a 3 day weekend with 3 tanks on the schedule! >


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## vijay_06

Everything looks to be in top condition. Didn’t you have Hygro Angustifolia in the tank sometime ago? Any reason for not having it anymore?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

vijay_06 said:


> Everything looks to be in top condition. Didn’t you have Hygro Angustifolia in the tank sometime ago? Any reason for not having it anymore?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. 

I did have it for a while, and many other species. It did really well in the tank, almost too well. I needed to thin things out, and that one got cut. It took up far too much room in a 55. Great plant. And I would use it again possibly in a 18" or deeper tank. 12" is hard to work with having larger plants.


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## Grobbins48

I cannot believe I had not thought about this before, but I have finally removed the center bracing from the glass lids. No PAR meter to see any impact, but visibility there are no more shadows. Such a simple little thing to do, and not sure what the final impact will be, but happy I thought of it today.










Over the past couple days the tank has seemed pretty happy. I am really glad I was able to do some deep maintenance, I feel it is already paying off and will continue to with a good routine. 

On another note, there has been a lot of talk about Mg ratios. I have been running around 3.8:1, right from the tap, dosing nothing. This is Ca at 40ppm and Mg (based on calculations) at 10.5ppm. I again tested tank GH and Ca content today with results of 8 and 40ppm respectively. Really good to see stability over months from the water source. With that said, I decided to add some Mg with Epson Salt- 10ppm more to get a 2:1 ratio, and a total of 20.5ppm Mg. Based on RB calculator and 45 gallons of water, I needed to add 3tsp + 1/8 tsp, which I did. A few hours later I decided to measure the GH of the tank and see what impact it had. GH came in at 10, and after doing the math with 40ppm Ca, I now have 19.5ppm Mg in the tank! I know it is supposed to work out that way, but it is really cool when things actually do work properly!

Now it is time to watch over the next few days and see how things react. Really I want to keep and eye on the AR, which I believe has been deficient now that I think about it. Time will tell, but I feel there are a lot of things working in the right direction in this aquarium right now.


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## Immortal1

Always hated those opaque dividers between the lids. I understand why then did it, but...
Pretty much the reason I did what I did with the lids on my tank.


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Always hated those opaque dividers between the lids. I understand why then did it, but...
> Pretty much the reason I did what I did with the lids on my tank.


You were absolutely an inspiration for this venture! I thought about it more and with a 55 being only 12" deep there is not much reason to make any cuts, but the missing center brace already makes me feel 10x better than before!


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## vijay_06

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I did have it for a while, and many other species. It did really well in the tank, almost too well. I needed to thin things out, and that one got cut. It took up far too much room in a 55. Great plant. And I would use it again possibly in a 18" or deeper tank. 12" is hard to work with having larger plants.


I saw this Hygro for the first time in your tank and loved it right away. Thanks to you, I now have a bunch of them in my 21 inch tall 75G now [emoji4]. Waiting for them to grow taller and fill out. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

I have a 10g on my desk with a Finnex Planted+ and have it biased towards the back due to that brown plastic glass divider/hinge. Guess I'll be taking mine off tomorrow too! "It's the little things that make the difference!" 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

vijay_06 said:


> I saw this Hygro for the first time in your tank and loved it right away. Thanks to you, I now have a bunch of them in my 21 inch tall 75G now [emoji4]. Waiting for them to grow taller and fill out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is a great plant, and easy to propagate and grow. Glad my journal was able to help you there!



chayos00 said:


> I have a 10g on my desk with a Finnex Planted+ and have it biased towards the back due to that brown plastic glass divider/hinge. Guess I'll be taking mine off tomorrow too! "It's the little things that make the difference!"
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


That has been my exact thought. Such a simple little thing, I am not sure why I didn't think of it sooner!


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## shaonrahman

Been reading this thread for a while. What an amazing journey you are having man!!! Fantastic job!


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## Grobbins48

shaonrahman said:


> Been reading this thread for a while. What an amazing journey you are having man!!! Fantastic job!


Thank you, I appreciate that. It really has been a journey, and one that I am really enjoying. I'll also say, I really have not lost interest in the aquarium itself; from the fish, plants, and all the 'things' that go along with it. It seems like some months focus turns more towards one aspect (lighting, flow, fish, dosing, etc.) then maybe the next month something else pops up that I toy with. I like that I can feed accomplished with my results, but never fully feel finished with where I am at.


----------



## Grobbins48

The added Mg dosing seems to be working well (still early, I know...). I put some thought into where to go from here. I added 10ppm Mg for a total of 20ppm in the tank. In order to sustain this level with a 70% weekly water change, it seems I'll be doing 7ppm weekly ongoing. I made some edits to @Greggz sheet for accumulation levels, removing the plant uptake (for simplicity) and adding in the fresh waters Mg levels (10.5ppm). But to be sure, here is my math and thought process:

I start this week (week 1) at 21.5ppm (10 added, 10.5 from tap). At the end of the week I'll remove 70% of the water, leaving the concentration of that water at 21.5ppm Mg still. Then I add back tap water which is concentrated at 10.5ppm Mg. The math would be (21.5ppm * 30%) + (10.5ppm * 70%) = 13.8ppm in the water pre dosing.

This is where I played with numbers to see where I can stabilize around the 20ppm ish level. This is where the 7ppm of Mg comes in weekly post water change. With this level, as @Immortal1 pointed out in another thread, give the law of diminishing returns!

I think what is funny to me is that when I started with planted tanks and used straight EI dosing, I was adding 7.5ppm of Mg weekly. It was sometime over the summer, for whatever reason, that I stopped doing this. Oh well, back to it!


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## Grobbins48

Just a few.

This is just after the DHL turned off, and only the DA FSPEC is on, in the last two hours of photo period.


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## Immortal1

Looking great!


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## Greggz

Nice pics!

Always good to see some planted tank eye candy!


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## Grobbins48

Few of a turquoise who was looking good yesterday. Was looking at just the time time and had my phone on me.


----------



## Greggz

Yeah sparring/flashing is really something to see in person. Bows can really turn on the colors when they want to. 

That's a good looking young one. You will enjoy watching him mature. He has a long way to go.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Yeah sparring/flashing is really something to see in person. Bows can really turn on the colors when they want to.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good looking young one. You will enjoy watching him mature. He has a long way to go.


Out of all the rainbows this one is the boss of the tank. Every morning just before and at lights on he turns it on, displays beautifully. 


All these fish are almost a year since purchase. It's amazing how slow, relative to other fish in the tank like the barbs, that these bows grow. The boesemani have quite a long way to go, they seem to be a bit slower.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> All these fish are almost a year since purchase. It's amazing how slow, relative to other fish in the tank like the barbs, that these bows grow. The boesemani have quite a long way to go, they seem to be a bit slower.


Yeah it's funny....I've been saying this for a long time but I don't think people believe me.

And Boesemani are probably the slowest. Takes many years to get to full size.

Here's what's coming........but it will probably be 5 years from now!!!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Few of a turquoise who was looking good yesterday. Was looking at just the time time and had my phone on me.



Very nice! I have 2 male turquoise bows and one of them does this display - especially on water change day. I actually have been trying to get the above pics you have for several months and was never this successful.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Yeah it's funny....I've been saying this for a long time but I don't think people believe me.
> 
> And Boesemani are probably the slowest. Takes many years to get to full size.
> 
> Here's what's coming........but it will probably be 5 years from now!!!


Planted tanks have taught me a new level of patience, but Rainbows are bringing that to a new level! 



Immortal1 said:


> Very nice! I have 2 male turquoise bows and one of them does this display - especially on water change day. I actually have been trying to get the above pics you have for several months and was never this successful.


Thanks! 

I have been wanting to get a nice video, but the time of day that he is like this there is usually a ton a glare, and by the time I can get a good shot he's onto me and turns it off!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> I have been wanting to get a nice video, but the time of day that he is like this there is usually a ton a glare, and by the time I can get a good shot he's onto me and turns it off!


Here's an old vid of mine you might like...........................I'll try to get a better one.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Here's an old vid of mine you might like...........................I'll try to get a better one.


Great video Gregg! I really like the music choice. It is funny- as I write this right now two of the Turquoise are sparing. Lights are out though, so no video or pictures this time around. Still fun to watch- especially coming from being an African Cichlid keeper for so long, it is nice to see these displays without fear of imminent death and destruction!

Interesting though is I rarely, if ever see the Bosesmani displaying. I wonder if they are just not mature enough at this point? Or if the bigger Turquoise just rules the tank?


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Interesting though is I rarely, if ever see the Bosesmani displaying. I wonder if they are just not mature enough at this point? Or if the bigger Turquoise just rules the tank?


Yeah Boesemani take a bit longer to start flashing. In general they just grow and mature slower than others. 

And when they display, it's less of the bright streak down their nose, it's more of an intensity of all color. Blue gets almost deep purple, and orange gets a darker shade. 

And it's interesting, Bows mostly spar with others of the same species. There are exceptions, but they tend to keep to their own.

Fascinating to watch, that is for sure.


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## moonwasaloon

If you had to pick one Beamswork DA FSPEC 48' or Beamswork DHL 6500K 1W 48' due to the color tone, which one would you pick? Do they provide the same par?


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## Grobbins48

Attention: Purigen has been removed. Let's see where we go from here.

the Met 14 seems to be doing a job on the algae it directly doses to, along with a boost of H2O2. I may do another direct dose tomorrow when I see a few spots that were missed.

Goodbye to Pogo Erectus. The staghorn completly engulfed it, took it out... Always struggled with that plant.

Nice big rearranging of the clinopodium brownei- always a ton of work, but I think worth it for the look. It lasts about a month between replant for me. This time extended my 'street' (and no- I don't for a moment begin to call this dutch- I just liked the look!).

For some reason pictures are not uploading right now, so I'll try again later tonight.




















Bump:


moonwasaloon said:


> If you had to pick one Beamswork DA FSPEC 48' or Beamswork DHL 6500K 1W 48' due to the color tone, which one would you pick? Do they provide the same par?


Well that is a tough one. Here are some thoughts:

DA FSPEC: Seems to bring the colors out a bit more, but also is quite blue with the 10,000K white LED's in it. I just swapped this to be the one running for 8 hours, but previously this was my 4 hr light.

DHL 1W 6500K: This gives off a softer feel to it, seems more natural and relaxing to me when watching the tank with just this light- which is really nice, though can tend to yellow things out. I prefer this to be my 8 hr one, but moved it to my 4 hr one for now seeing if the DA FSPEC will bring out more color.

Overall they are pretty close with PAR at substrate, withing 5-10 based on my testing (55-65ish at the 16 inches or so).

There should be some pictures comparing them earlier in the thread, but let me know and I can post new ones later tonight (hopefully the Tapatalk upload will work).


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## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


>



Great looking FTS!


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## Greggz

Rainbow tanks are taking over the board!!

My master plan is working.:grin2:

Great FTS. 

And I like the use of the pan. The first time my wife saw me using one she just stood there shaking her head. She didn't say anything but she didn't have to........I could read her mind!

Needless to say I have my own dedicated cookie sheet now.


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Great looking FTS!


Thanks!! I like the direction things are heading.


Greggz said:


> Rainbow tanks are taking over the board!!
> 
> My master plan is working.:grin2:
> 
> Great FTS.
> 
> And I like the use of the pan. The first time my wife saw me using one she just stood there shaking her head. She didn't say anything but she didn't have to........I could read her mind!
> 
> Needless to say I have my own dedicated cookie sheet now.


I have noticed that influx of rainbow tanks over the past 6 or so months! Really is a wonderful combination for a fish tank with plants!

And yes, that sheet must be as old as or older than I am. It ended up at my house from my mother at some point in time. Needless to say we made sure she has some nice baking pans now. I previously used pyrex 9-13 pans and I got that same look from my wife you did from yours... so I dug out the old baking sheet!

If you look closely at the picture you can see my new tool; 4.5" inch spring loaded scissors. They are amazing so far. Got a straight and curved pair for like $12 total on Amazon. Really helps with fine tuning things. I find myself making good cuts and pruning more, stuff that I never would have done before as it was too difficult with the big aquascaping scissors.


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## moonwasaloon

Do you have Males and Female Rainbows?

Bump: Do you have Males and Female Rainbows?


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## Grobbins48

moonwasaloon said:


> Do you have Males and Female Rainbows?
> 
> Bump: Do you have Males and Female Rainbows?


Yes, maybe a 1-1 ish ratio. Honestly dont know the count 100%. They are still young so the verdict is out on a couple of them!


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## Grobbins48

Did another water change today and little trim- working to win the battle against the staghorn. 

The S.Repins got hit hard again, so after a few Glut/ H2O2 blasts cut it back to the substrate. 

As the water was filling up I thought some of these guys were looking good. Lots of bubbles from fresh water, but wanted to share some photos anyway!


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## Maryland Guppy

You guys are hurting me really bad! >
I will not purchase Boes, almost time for a recall against the free lease program. :grin2:

All joking aside the rainbows look great, please keep posting pics.


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## Omar EAZi

very nice tank bro, I like how the white rocks changed color to look like this, no one would suspect that these rocks were once black


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## Grobbins48

I broke down and finally got one- pH Controller. I went with the Milwaukee MC122, from Dr. Fosters & Smith, with a 20% off coupon... Really could not resist. I almost went with the Pinpoint, but figured I could save the extra few dollars and put them towards other future plans for the tank. >:wink2:










So far I am pleased with the purchase (only a few hours into having it). I decided to just have it in the tank for a couple of days before using it to control the CO2 itself. The meter came pretty spot on from a calibration standpoint which was neat to see. Much easier to calibrate that the cheap pens of the past. My tank bottomed out at a pH of 6.5 today, and I have some tank water sitting out to get a relative degassed reading over the next day or two. From this point I'll work to determine the set point, which I am guessing will be 6.4, but more data (degassed pH), time, and testing will tell me the final answer. I am curious to watch the rate of pH drop when the CO2 first kicks on too. If it is slower than I think then I may toy with bumping up the injection rate to see what that does. Lots of things to possibly toy around with now, with the benefit of finding the critical threshold and having a safety in place.

My biggest complaint right now is the horrid, yellow pH probe it comes with... Such an eyesore in the tank. I really need to figure something out with placement, disguising, etc. as I am struggling with this yellow stick just hanging out.










The myrio red is HUGE this week- I feel like I have stated to find a good spot with the ferts. It is also sending more offshoots than ever before, and some aerial roots. I feel like it grew 2x as fast this week then previous. Really most everything is looking good right now. With traveling this past week the tank only had two doses of my micro mix, so I am wondering if that may also play a bit into it. I'll need to do some comparing of my current dosing to others and see if I notice anything substantial- but open to feedback and thoughts as well:



















Here are a few others shots:


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## Ken Keating1

A sump sure would take care of the pH probe!!! I'm not sure which is brighter, the probe or reflection!!

I bet a piece of black heat shrinkable tubing would hide that pretty quickly.


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## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> A sump sure would take care of the pH probe!!! I'm not sure which is brighter, the probe or reflection!!
> 
> I bet a piece of black heat shrinkable tubing would hide that pretty quickly.


HA! Yes a sump would be a perfect place for that! And in person it is even brighter- such an eye sore! The prob is WAY bigger than I thought it would be. Perhaps just another reason upgr.... nope... can't say it yet...

The black heat shrink is a pretty good idea- And I think I have a whole bunch; just need to find it.

I'll have to think about that one, and possibly give it a shot.


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> My biggest complaint right now is the horrid, yellow pH probe it comes with... Such an eyesore in the tank. I really need to figure something out with placement, disguising, etc. as I am struggling with this yellow stick just hanging out.


The American Pinpoint is a nice blue.....:wink2::wink2:

Now if you put a batch of Mayaca Fluviatilis in the corner, you will never see it again.

And I am guessing you will really like having the controller. You can turn up the CO2 flow rate a bit, which will bring down the pH faster, and not have to worry about it.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> The American Pinpoint is a nice blue.....:wink2::wink2:
> 
> 
> 
> Now if you put a batch of Mayaca Fluviatilis in the corner, you will never see it again.
> 
> 
> 
> And I am guessing you will really like having the controller. You can turn up the CO2 flow rate a bit, which will bring down the pH faster, and not have to worry about it.


No buyers remorse at this point! 

As for placement, should I try and keep the pH probe away from the heater, or wouldn't it not matter? The left side would hide the probe much better I think, but that is where the heater is.


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## Rush3737

I see I was a trendsetter with my shiny new pH controller! 

FWIW I just put mine in an area where it sunk behind plants, similar to how I tried to hide my heater. 

Tank is looking awesome, in particular I like the few blades of "grass" the AR, and especially the carpet around the rocks on the right hill. That has come out looking spectacular. 

I'd have a lot of hacking to do to make my tank look half as neat and tidy.


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## Grobbins48

So here is an interesting one... Degassed tank water, about 5 days of sitting in the cup reads a pH of 8.0, and my tank hits 6.5 at peak pH drop. Looks like I run ~1.5pH drop in this tank (which is not far from the 1.45 I previously thought with the cheap-o pH pen).

Also, things have been progressing quite well in the tank. For the most part it seems the BBA and staghorn are a thing of the recent past (knocks on wood), and there has been a slight uptick in green spot algae, though not too bad.

Need to make up a new batch of micros tonight, so will be looking through to see if I need to review and update anything.


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## Plain Jane

May I ask why you removed the Purigen? Is it a bad product, or did you just like temporarily remove it during setup, or whatever? I have not used it before but I am thinking of getting some.

Bump: May I ask why you removed the Purigen? Is it a bad product, or did you just like temporarily remove it during setup, or whatever? I have not used it before but I am thinking of getting some.


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## Grobbins48

Plain Jane said:


> May I ask why you removed the Purigen? Is it a bad product, or did you just like temporarily remove it during setup, or whatever? I have not used it before but I am thinking of getting some.
> 
> Bump: May I ask why you removed the Purigen? Is it a bad product, or did you just like temporarily remove it during setup, or whatever? I have not used it before but I am thinking of getting some.


Not a bad product at all. Some of us have been toying with the idea that beyond organics, including tannins, that Purigen MAY strip other elements from the water that otherwise would benefit the whole system. I have no definitive proof of this or what those elements may be, but I will say for my tank right now, things are going quite well. Very low algae, strong, fast, and robust plant growth, and of course happy fish.

Main focus for me with keeping the tank clean is gravel vac weekly with 70% water changes, and pulling the canisters apart every couple of weeks to ensure they are nice and clean. 

My question for you would be why do you want to add it in? It does help keep crystal clear water, but IMO that is it completely possible to achieve this without purigen as well. Not trying to talk you out of it because I have used it and liked it (especially when I kept African cichlids!).


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## kgbudge

ooooo, nice 'bows.


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Main focus for me with keeping the tank clean is gravel vac weekly with 70% water changes, and pulling the canisters apart every couple of weeks to ensure they are nice and clean.


As you know, I have used/not used Purigen quite a few times now.

I do believe I saw benefits some time back, but like you when I stepped up my filter cleanings, no longer saw any need for it. 

To me Purigen is much like Excel/Glut, and cleanup crews. They serve a purpose in many tanks and I am not against them and have used them. But if you step up your maintenance and get into better balance, then they have little (if any) benefit.


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## Grobbins48

More thinking- and I like it!

There has been plenty of discussion on macro dosing recently- including lowering levels, looking more at ratios, and focusing on are we dosing macros to tank water or water change water.

Each week I change 30 gallons, but have been dosing macros at 45 gallons (estimated total water volume). I do frontload, and will continue with this trend, but this made me think; What are the 'true' (or closer to actual) ppm of each compound I am adding to the tank. Well here are the results:

What I believed I was dosing based on 45 gallons of total tank water:










What I was *ACTUALLY *dosing based on 30 gallons of water changed (using the same mg measurements of each compound): 










You can see levels were elevated by about 33% more than I believed. Now, things have been going well with the tank, but I do want to experiment with lowering things a bit. The K has been WAY higher than I believed, and I initially wanted to lower it to about 20ppm, but I am concerned about doing too much at once.

My thought for this next week is to actually dose what I thought I was previously. So essentially reducing each compound by 33% (not MgSO4- that was already being done at 30 gallons- silly me).

Here is what the actual dosing will look like- unless someone can tell me to just 'Hey- go for lowering K from an added 10ppm to 5ppm'. No seriously, I really am considering it, but my brain is telling me keep the same ratios for this week, and next week reduce K by 5ppm more (seeing as I will be pulling about 13ppm out this week. Okay, I convinced myself that I'll keep my ratios the same, and reduce everything to previously thought ppm, but based on the 30 gallons of water change.










Am I nuts? Maybe, but not only does this make more sense to me, it gets me going in the direction I wanted to, and give me another aspect of the tank to play with now that the BBA and Staghorn have been dealt with.


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## Quagulator

Can someone please explain this to me:

Front loading targeted dosed macros (in my mind) have always been @ tank volume levels.... TANK VOLUME is dosed 20ppm NO3 for example, regardless of residual NO3 levels.

Why are we thinking that the values dosed are more? Yes, obviously dosing 30 gallons with a 20ppm / 45 gallon shot of NO3 will yield a higher value, but you aren't dosing 30 gallons, you are dosing 45 gallons because you add the 30 gallons to the existing 15 gallons. 

So, 45 gallon to 20ppm NO3 = 5.56g KNO3. 
5.56 KNO3 into 30 gallons = 30ppm
66% water change - 1/3 of 30ppm = 10ppm
So you are still dosing 20ppm of NO3??

Your levels weren't higher than you originally thought...


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## Greggz

There is only one way to see if it has a positive effect........and that is to try it.

Worst case is going back to where you were. 

Only thing I would add is to have patience and change things slowly. As you know, I am going down a similar path, but it will take about 5 weeks to get where I intend to go. 

Just saying if you rock the boat too hard at once, plants can rebel a bit.


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## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Can someone please explain this to me:
> 
> Front loading targeted dosed macros (in my mind) have always been @ tank volume levels.... TANK VOLUME is dosed 20ppm NO3 for example, regardless of residual NO3 levels.
> 
> Why are we thinking that the values dosed are more? Yes, obviously dosing 30 gallons with a 20ppm / 45 gallon shot of NO3 will yield a higher value, but you aren't dosing 30 gallons, you are dosing 45 gallons because you add the 30 gallons to the existing 15 gallons.
> 
> So, 45 gallon to 20ppm NO3 = 5.56g KNO3.
> 5.56 KNO3 into 30 gallons = 30ppm
> 66% water change - 1/3 of 30ppm = 10ppm
> So you are still dosing 20ppm of NO3??
> 
> Your levels weren't higher than you originally thought...


Here is my thinking on the math. When I remove 30 gallons, the remaining water is still at 30ppm NO3 (In my mind previously was 20ppm). Then I add back in 30 gallons of water, which dilutes the ppm in 45 total gallons. Then yes, adding fresh water brings it to 10ppm total in the tank:










Then I was adding what I thought was 20 ppm (as I have been previously dosing), but was actually 30ppm. So yes, I was hovering around 30ppm in the tank while at the time thinking I was around 20ppm.

Where I wanted to be thought was 20ppm in the tank. So all I am doing here is reducing what I am dosing to 20ppm. Essentially, it is just a view point. I have been consistent with the amount in the tank week to week, just elevated vs. what I thought I was doing. After this first water change of 70% I'll likely be around 23-24ppm.










So now I just redid my math to actually hold 20ppm vs. 30ish ppm. Your thought process is correct with the water change- my dosing amount was simply higher than I thought!



Greggz said:


> There is only one way to see if it has a positive effect........and that is to try it.
> 
> Worst case is going back to where you were.
> 
> Only thing I would add is to have patience and change things slowly. As you know, I am going down a similar path, but it will take about 5 weeks to get where I intend to go.
> 
> Just saying if you rock the boat too hard at once, plants can rebel a bit.


Yes- completely agree with taking the time on the changes- I'll make this change this week, then take some time to watch what happens over a couple of weeks. Really there is no rush on it, and why risk and overly negative result by moving too fast!


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## Ken Keating1

Quagulator said:


> Can someone please explain this to me:


There's the fish contribution and plant uptake that's needs to be taken into consideration. If the net result between these two is positive, say the fish are adding a lot more NO3 than what the plants uptake, then the NO3 value will slowly go up over time above the dosing rate. The rate of rise and final value depends on what this positive net value is and the amounts and frequency of WCs.


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## Quagulator

Ken Keating1 said:


> There's the fish contribution and plant uptake that's needs to be taken into consideration. If the net result between these two is positive, say the fish are adding a lot more NO3 than what the plants uptake, then the NO3 value will slowly go up over time above the dosing rate. The rate of rise and final value depends on what this positive net value is and the amounts and frequency of WCs.


Yes, but when we are saying "I thought I was dosing 20ppm but I was actually dosing way more" its false.... 20ppm into 30 gallons is way less NO3 than 20ppm into 45 gallons. We aren't dosing the volume of changed water, we are dosing an additional 20ppm above what residual levels are within the tank from livestock (if it is a positive value) 

It would easier to understand (in my mind) if we were saying we wanted to reduce NO3 dosing to target a lower number, because of accumulation factors. 

20ppm into 45 gallons on top of the 10ppm from the 15 gallons within the tank = 30ppm NO3 (0 from new water, 10ppm from residual NO3 and 20ppm dosed into total tank volume)
20ppm into 30 gallons on top of the 10ppm from the 15 gallons within the tank = 23ppm NO3 (0 from new water, 10ppm from residual NO3, 13ppm dosed into total tank volume -- or 20ppm into 30 gallons diluted into 45 gallons) 

Instead, all we should have been saying is "I'm reducing my NO3 to a targeted dose of 13ppm to yield 23ppm NO3 after my waterchange and front load"


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## Ken Keating1

@Quagulator: Whoops, I mis-interpreted your post! Funny, you were clear in what you said, I just read it differently. Looks like this morning it's best to have some coffee before I make any more responses!!!


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## Quagulator

See below for my thinking. 

As we can see, all we are doing is lowering NO3 dosing overall...

and as time moves on the residual levels will be lower, leaving the total NO3 levels lower.


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## Greggz

Since I feel responsible for dredging up this gobbledygook, I'll give you my take.

The basic idea is that there are many ways to look at the same exact dosing.

Let's take my tank, and an identical 12.96 grams dose of KNO3. And for the time being let's not included any fish waste or plant uptake, just a tank full of dosed water.


Ex. 1

12.96 mg KNO3 into 105G = 20 ppm NO3
5 week accumulation WC 70% = 30 ppm 

So with 70% water change, dosing is 20 ppm to reach 30 ppm with accumulation.


Ex.2

12.96 mg into 70G (amount of WC) = 30 ppm NO3

Same exact dosing, but no accumulation math to solve. Very direct. I want to reach 30 ppm, I dose 30 ppm.

Now, to complicate things further you can look at the same exact dosing but with a 50% water change.

Ex. 3

12.96 mg KNO3 into 105G = 20 ppm NO3
5 week accumulation WC 50% = 39 ppm 

Now accumulation goes up to 39 ppm.

So the point is, all three are the exact same dosage. Which is easier to understand?

PS. I just re-read this post, and I concluded none of it is easy to understand!!:wink2::wink2:


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## Quagulator

Greggz said:


> So the point is, all three are the exact same dosage. Which is easier to understand?
> PS. I just re-read this post, and I concluded none of it is easy to understand!!:wink2::wink2:


The easiest to understand is dose the tank 20ppm above whatever your residual levels are after you weekly 50%+ water change 

Don't take into account accumulation (unless your levels are getting very high of course, lets no forget about common sense  )

Just dose your tank volume up 20ppm, and if you "need" a real number, measure NO3 pre and post water change to come up with a number to add onto your 20ppm dose. 

BTW, I like how you have set out in your examples a dose of 12.96g of KNO3. You aren't lowering your NO3, you are just using different numbers to tell the same story. roud:


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Yes, but when we are saying "I thought I was dosing 20ppm but I was actually dosing way more" its false.... 20ppm into 30 gallons is way less NO3 than 20ppm into 45 gallons. We aren't dosing the volume of changed water, we are dosing an additional 20ppm above what residual levels are within the tank from livestock (if it is a positive value)
> 
> It would easier to understand (in my mind) if we were saying we wanted to reduce NO3 dosing to target a lower number, because of accumulation factors.
> 
> 20ppm into 45 gallons on top of the 10ppm from the 15 gallons within the tank = 30ppm NO3 (0 from new water, 10ppm from residual NO3 and 20ppm dosed into total tank volume)
> 20ppm into 30 gallons on top of the 10ppm from the 15 gallons within the tank = 23ppm NO3 (0 from new water, 10ppm from residual NO3, 13ppm dosed into total tank volume -- or 20ppm into 30 gallons diluted into 45 gallons)
> 
> Instead, all we should have been saying is "I'm reducing my NO3 to a targeted dose of 13ppm to yield 23ppm NO3 after my waterchange and front load"


Agree- My statement should read 'My previous dosing was 30ppm based on my dosing methodology. I actually believed I was dosing 20ppm by adding 5.56g of KNO3, when I should have been dosing 3.7g of KNO3 to achieve my desired concentration levels. I am now targeting 20ppm in my tanks and I am adding 3.7g KNO3 to achieve it.'

I'll accomplish that by accounting for residual from water changes, and taking fish waste and plant uptake as a wash (are they or not is up for debate, just my current methodology).

Bump:


Quagulator said:


> The easiest to understand is dose the tank 20ppm above whatever your residual levels are after you weekly 50%+ water change
> 
> Don't take into account accumulation (unless your levels are getting very high of course, lets no forget about common sense  )
> 
> Just dose your tank volume up 20ppm, and if you "need" a real number, measure NO3 pre and post water change to come up with a number to add onto your 20ppm dose.
> 
> BTW, I like how you have set out in your examples a dose of 12.96g of KNO3. You aren't lowering your NO3, you are just using different numbers to tell the same story. roud:



Never refreshed my browser! Oops-

Yes, same story with different numbers, you are correct!

I will now change my numbers :wink2: just because it is fun! Haha! But seriously, that was the confusing part is I was changing the way I presented things, while at the same time changing the numbers. Doing too much at once I suppose!


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## Greggz

Quagulator said:


> BTW, I like how you have set out in your examples a dose of 12.96g of KNO3. You aren't lowering your NO3, you are just using different numbers to tell the same story. roud:


Precisely.

And I will bet you that many (maybe most) people here have no idea how the math of EI dosing with accumulation works.

Many probably think you dose 20ppm, so your water column is 20 ppm. Well, no, not exactly....with 50% water changes it's closer to 40 ppm after 5 weeks of accumulation. 

Why it ever got started that way is beyond me.

Now I don't intend to start a revolution, but for my own purposes I am changing my spreadsheets to target dosing. But I will still list my dosing in traditional EI as well (with both 50% & 70% water change too).

To do so I just added a couple of lines to my spreadsheet. Take NO3 below. Target dose is 30ppm. I was formerly posting it at 21 ppm (70% water change). If I want to show it in equivalent units to Burr's or most others (50% water change) it's 15.75 ppm.










Now one other thing to keep in mind is that if you perform smaller water changes, that accumulated level goes up significantly. But again, I doubt many ever really look at it that way or think about it.


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## Quagulator

Greggz said:


> To do so I just added a couple of lines to my spreadsheet. Take NO3 below. Target dose is 30ppm. I was formerly posting it at 21 ppm (70% water change). If I want to show it in equivalent units to Burr's or most others (50% water change) it's 15.75 ppm.


Yes, see this makes sense. 

Higher dosed ppm incoming water vs lower dosed ppm tank volume = same amount dosed, just expressed in different ppm.


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## Ken Keating1

I'm starting to miss the good old days when I just dosed EI three times a week and didn't know what ppm stood for!! :grin2::grin2:


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## Quagulator

Ken Keating1 said:


> I'm starting to miss the good old days when I just dosed EI three times a week and didn't know what ppm stood for!! :grin2::grin2:


I think we should all go back to using Flourish a couple times a week, root tabs for the "heavy root feeders" and fish waste for the rest... OH! and keep our drop checkers a healthy green color :grin2:


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## Discusluv

Ken Keating1 said:


> I'm starting to miss the good old days when I just dosed EI three times a week and didn't know what ppm stood for!! :grin2::grin2:


Thats me! Ignorance is bliss


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## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> I think we should all go back to using Flourish a couple times a week, root tabs for the "heavy root feeders" and fish waste for the rest... OH! and keep our drop checkers a healthy green color :grin2:


Eh... Just shake in some KNO3 when the plants look hungry... It doesn't matter that much anyways! >:grin2::laugh2:

Bump:


Quagulator said:


> Yes, see this makes sense.
> 
> Higher dosed ppm incoming water vs lower dosed ppm tank volume = same amount dosed, just expressed in different ppm.


I knew I could count on @Greggz to decipher what I was trying to say! I like that view on the sheet. For some it does not matter, for others its cool to see!


----------



## Immortal1

I guess the part that makes me laugh a bit - when each of us started (me included) I wish we all could have read thru the last few pages here. Then written down our thoughts about what we read. 
Now jump forward to today and read what each of us had written :grin2:
"Eh... Just shake in some KNO3 when the plants look hungry... It doesn't matter that much anyways!"


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## Discusluv

I am making an attempt to understand all this complicated stuff ( as it whizzes right over my head) by reading your journals. 
Figuring eventually it will sink in --- sorta like osmosis.

What does this all mean to me atm? ~ You'all speak a foreign language- but, its nice to read your chatter.


----------



## Greggz

Discusluv said:


> I am making an attempt to understand all this complicated stuff ( as it whizzes right over my head) by reading your journals.
> Figuring eventually it will sink in --- sorta like osmosis.
> 
> What does this all mean to me atm? ~ You'all speak a foreign language- but, its nice to read your chatter.


You are not alone.

I had a similar reaction when I started reading Burr's 75G journal years ago. I distinctly remember thinking at the time that these folks have got no idea what they are talking about, and this is all a bunch of mumbo jumbo hooey gibberish. 


Turns out I was wrong. Just took a long time to sink in.


----------



## Discusluv

Oh, no-- I am well aware that you guys know exactly what you are talking about. I just know I am not at all capable of putting its alphabet into a workable language to communicate with you.


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## Maryland Guppy

Greggz said:


> Since I feel responsible for dredging up this gobbledygook, I'll give you my take.
> 
> So the point is, all three are the exact same dosage. Which is easier to understand?
> 
> PS. I just re-read this post, and I concluded none of it is easy to understand!!:wink2::wink2:


Should have been listed as A, B, C, and D.
Of course "D" would read "None of the above" >>>

I see where this is going.
Next you will begin to figure out daily consumption and eventually only dose what the tank needs plus a wee bit more. :grin2::grin2::grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> I see where this is going.
> Next you will begin to figure out daily consumption and eventually only dose what the tank needs plus a wee bit more. :grin2::grin2::grin2:


Now this is a slippery slope... ha!:nerd: Who has the lab equipment and 10 tanks laying around? I'll read that journal! 

At the moment convenience does mean something to me, so at least macro front loading will stay.


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> Should have been listed as A, B, C, and D.
> Of course "D" would read "None of the above" >>>
> 
> I see where this is going.
> Next you will begin to figure out daily consumption and eventually only dose what the tank needs plus a wee bit more. :grin2::grin2::grin2:


You have to be deep in the weeds to get how funny this is......and I am, and I do!!:grin2::grin2:


----------



## tetra120

I wish i would have taken the BLUE pill.




Kind of.


----------



## Grobbins48

Less thinking... more picture sharing!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Less thinking... more picture sharing!


Yeah after that last discussion it's a good idea to "cleanse the palate". 

And I can't think of a better way than more pics.

Tank is really filling in nice now, and that's a lot of progress from you started not that long ago.

Well done!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Yeah after that last discussion it's a good idea to "cleanse the palate".
> 
> 
> 
> And I can't think of a better way than more pics.
> 
> 
> 
> Tank is really filling in nice now, and that's a lot of progress from you started not that long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Well done!


Ha yes, exactly!

Not getting all the colors I want right now- I feel like the Beamswork LEDs are just limited in what they can bring out for reds. 

That being said, I am really pleased with the clean and robust growth. I am letting it grow in a bit to see what it would look like fuller (not jungle- just full). 

Larger trim will likely come next week.


----------



## Immortal1

Great looking tank @Grobbins48 - as Gregg said, really filling in nicely! Camera work is looking good as well


----------



## Ken Keating1

Great photos Grobbins, the plants are looking perfect! 

BTW, what did you do to hide the pH probe?


----------



## Grobbins48

Thanks Ken! Turns out the heat shrink I had was not large enough, so I ended up lowering it and attempting to hide it behind the limnophila aromatica. You can see a bit of the blue top of the probe right now.

The tank is running low, but not out yet, so I did set the pH controller up to cut the CO2 just below the 6.5pH level. I'll work to get a refill this week.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks Ken! Turns out the heat shrink I had was not large enough, so I ended up lowering it and attempting to hide it behind the limnophila aromatica. You can see a bit of the blue top of the probe right now.


Got it, I see it now! That's a great spot, it's pretty well hidden.


----------



## Grobbins48

Pretty large trim- and there is more I could have done. Things seem to be going well, so keeping dosing the same this week. Nothing too much more to update, so here are some pictures (uploaded to Imgur first, so hopeful the quality will be better than TapaTalk uploads)!

Before:










After:










Misc. pics:


----------



## Immortal1

@Grobbins48 - please stop posting pics like these. I simply cannot keep up with that level of quality!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> @Grobbins48 - please stop posting pics like these. I simply cannot keep up with that level of quality!


Thanks @Immortal1 

Your photos are looking great, but if I recall correctly a while back, were you the one using the vintage filter on the iPhone? Going to resurrect that anytime??

On another note, I know my CO2 is emptying, but have yet to change it out. Well I get home today, and though my pH controller was set to 6.4, however the tank was at 6.3pH and the controller was still on. Lesson here is the dial is quite touchy and not very clear on where it sets. 

On the bright side, there was no sign of distress in the fish, and that is .2pH lower than I keep it (6.5pH normal low every day). Degasses is 8.0pH, so pretty large drop happening here. 

Other side note, looks like I was experiencing the dreadful 'end of tank dump' from my aquatek regulator. Just happy nothing went wrong, that I caught it, and that I now have the pH controller set properly.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks @*Immortal1*
> 
> Your photos are looking great, but if I recall correctly a while back, were you the one using the vintage filter on the iPhone? Going to resurrect that anytime??
> 
> On another note, I know my CO2 is emptying, but have yet to change it out. Well I get home today, and though my pH controller was set to 6.4, however the tank was at 6.3pH and the controller was still on. Lesson here is the dial is quite touchy and not very clear on where it sets.
> 
> On the bright side, there was no sign of distress in the fish, and that is .2pH lower than I keep it (6.5pH normal low every day). Degasses is 8.0pH, so pretty large drop happening here.
> 
> Other side note, looks like I was experiencing the dreadful 'end of tank dump' from my aquatek regulator. Just happy nothing went wrong, that I caught it, and that I now have the pH controller set properly.



LOL, yeah that was me using the vintage filter... hated those pics. If you are using the Milwaukee pH controller - yes it is a bit touchy on the adjustment! Good to hear you didn't loose any fish.
Interesting side note - was doing some various maintenance on my system which involved me moving the solenoid poser from the Milwaukee controlled outlet to just an outlet that is on the mechanical timer for the Milwaukee - then forgot I did that for 3 days :surprise: Needles to say my odd way of delivering co2 actually worked as it is supposed to. Does that mean I will get rid of the Milwaukee - NEVER! like my bows too much for that piece of mind.


----------



## Grobbins48

I don't think I could be more thankful for yesterdays experience and the pH controller in general right now. After waking up this morning I went down to check on the tanks, and the pH in my 55 was at 6.4! The routine to shut down the CO2 outlet last night somehow did not fully execute, for the first time ever. This led to the CO2 being 'on' all night. Thankfully the pH controller was able to keep it at 6.4, and not gas my fish. 

Just goes to show, even when things seem to be running well and smooth, something can always creep up and catch you off guard. Best money spent recently on this tank is that controller- so thanks to all who have shared their experiences, helping to nudge me in this direction!


----------



## Grobbins48

Thanks to the discussion over at @AguaScape journal, I now realized why my CO2 smart outlet failed; it is plugged in backwards. I need to first plug in the smart outlet so it always has power, then plug the pH controlled outlet into the smart outlet. This way I can cut CO2 at the right hour, but always have power to see the pH.

Two nights ago the smart outlet must have not had power going to it when the pH dipped below the threshold, so it never received the off signal. That way when the pH went back to above threshold and triggers on, the controlled outlet had power after lights out.

Just goes to show little mistakes can always happen! At least I learned with no negative effects, and can make the correction.

I believe most people shut off the CO2 at night, but does anyone with a controller keep it on 24/7? If so, what is your through process? Just curious as to what others are doing.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> I believe most people shut off the CO2 at night, but does anyone with a controller keep it on 24/7? If so, what is your through process? Just curious as to what others are doing.


I shut off the controller itself.

No particular reason. Just don't see the need to have it on.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> I believe most people shut off the CO2 at night, but does anyone with a controller keep it on 24/7? If so, what is your through process? Just curious as to what others are doing.



Guess I am in the other boat... my controller is on 24/7. At any time, day or nite, I can see what the pH of the tank water is. At a specific time (mechanical timer), an outlet is given power which then sends power thru the Milwaukee relay to the co2 system.
Now for the $1,000,000.00 question - by leaving my controller running 24/7 I assume that means the pH probe is also energized in some sort of way? If so, does that shorten the life of the probe or extend it? Gregg turns his controller off when not in use and I know he has mentioned having the same probe for 3 years? If so, obviously turning off the controller does not hurt things. In that 3 year time, I have replace the probe once - mostly because the time that it took to calibrate the probe was taking longer and longer (was 1-2 minutes, extended to like 10-20 minutes to stabilize at 4.01ph, then another 10-20 minutes to get back to 7.whatever my tank was at).


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> I shut off the controller itself.
> 
> No particular reason. Just don't see the need to have it on.





Immortal1 said:


> Guess I am in the other boat... my controller is on 24/7. At any time, day or nite, I can see what the pH of the tank water is. At a specific time (mechanical timer), an outlet is given power which then sends power thru the Milwaukee relay to the co2 system.
> Now for the $1,000,000.00 question - by leaving my controller running 24/7 I assume that means the pH probe is also energized in some sort of way? If so, does that shorten the life of the probe or extend it? Gregg turns his controller off when not in use and I know he has mentioned having the same probe for 3 years? If so, obviously turning off the controller does not hurt things. In that 3 year time, I have replace the probe once - mostly because the time that it took to calibrate the probe was taking longer and longer (was 1-2 minutes, extended to like 10-20 minutes to stabilize at 4.01ph, then another 10-20 minutes to get back to 7.whatever my tank was at).


See now this is interesting- we are all in the same boat that CO2 goes off at night (and we experience the pH swings), but I suppose I never thought about the unit/ probe being energized and its effects on longevity. Either way one additional timer is needed (to ensure shut off at night time), guess its just a matter of placing it on the pH Controller or before the pH controlled power unit.


And 10+ min to calibrate? Yeah I could see myself tossing in for a new probe at that point too!

Side note: did replace the CO2 tank just today, and use the brass leak stopper this time around. Not sure when I swapped last time- will need to look that up!


----------



## Grobbins48

Looks like last CO2 tank was purchased on 11/11/2018, so just a tad bit over 100 days (still had about 400psi left, so probably had more time left, but oh well). Pretty happy with that result.

And here is the most recent dosing I figured I would post here as well.


----------



## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> still had about 400psi left, so probably had more time left, but oh well


With my 20lb tank, 400psi would give me like a good week or so. I think as soon as I see the PSI drop, I've got about 2 weeks with 80-100cc/min of flow.


----------



## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> With my 20lb tank, 400psi would give me like a good week or so. I think as soon as I see the PSI drop, I've got about 2 weeks with 80-100cc/min of flow.


Yeah for sure had maybe 5-7 days before I would have been worried- for me it is balancing when the CO2 runs out vs. when I can get to the beer store to swap. Its a 25 min drive to a part of town I rarely go, plus I was traveling this week!

Bright side I was able to get an aluminum tank back vs. the massive and heavy steel one the gave me last time. Looks nice again under the tank!


----------



## chayos00

Totally understand that dilemma about getting to swap a tank out. My local place now closes at 4pm and I get off work the same time. Gotta shift swap with someone normally. Also got this beautiful tank when I was thinking the one that was painted purple around the top was ugly.... I was like WTF this is even worse! LOL









Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

Lot going on, but did want to share the massive (2/3 of the tank) trim. No other changes to note right now.










Post water change bubbles a few hours later.


















Trying to get this little pogo k to keep!










Lots of plant mass...









Before










After


----------



## Immortal1

Oh WOW - and I thought I hacked out a lot....
You win! Looks pretty good to.


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Oh WOW - and I thought I hacked out a lot....
> 
> You win! Looks pretty good to.


I should have gone after the left side, but just ran out of time for today!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> I should have gone after the left side, but just ran out of time for today!


Know the feeling - far left side of mine needed more. Guess I have something to do tomorrow :grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Know the feeling - far left side of mine needed more. Guess I have something to do tomorrow :grin2:


Ha exactly. And I keep wanting to add more plant diversity and color, but with my style of scape I feel like I am limited right now in the 55!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Great trim job, plus the fish look like they're enjoying the extra room!


----------



## Grobbins48

Welp... missed a water change last week as life got in the way, so playing catch up tonight. Nothing rebelled, just a bit more algae on glass, no plant issues. This is even more interesting due to the fact that there has been zero dosing of anything since last Sunday due to traveling, and before that was the normal front load macros, and 3 micro doses.

Forgot to take a before picture, but here are some shots of the tank. Enjoy!


----------



## Grobbins48

@Greggz , @Immortal1 , and anyone else who may be using a pH controller- what solutions are you using to calibrate? I will need to order up some now and want to be as economical as possible. Do you purchase a larger bottle and put some in a cup? Packets?

Any details you could share on the process would be appreciated!:grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> @Greggz , @Immortal1 , and anyone else who may be using a pH controller- what solutions are you using to calibrate? I will need to order up some now and want to be as economical as possible. Do you purchase a larger bottle and put some in a cup? Packets?
> 
> Any details you could share on the process would be appreciated!:grin2:


Personally I have a large container of 7 & 4. 

I bring a plastic cup over of RO water and swish the probe around. Then I wipe it dry with a small microfiber cloth I keep in the stand. 

Then the probe goes right into the large container. 

I also have some of the smaller single packets too. Every so often I double check with one, and it's always right on. I just hated dealing with the small packets, much easier to dunk it in the bottle.

And I can tell you that the American Pinpoint probe drifts very, very little. I calibrate once every month or so, and it's barely off if it at all.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Personally I have a large container of 7 & 4.
> 
> I bring a plastic cup over of RO water and swish the probe around. Then I wipe it dry with a small microfiber cloth I keep in the stand.
> 
> Then the probe goes right into the large container.
> 
> I also have some of the smaller single packets too. Every so often I double check with one, and it's always right on. I just hated dealing with the small packets, much easier to dunk it in the bottle.
> 
> And I can tell you that the American Pinpoint probe drifts very, very little. I calibrate once every month or so, and it's barely off if it at all.


Okay, good to know. I was thinking of doing something just like that, but using distilled water to wash (don't have RO).

Thanks for the overview!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> @Greggz , @Immortal1 , and anyone else who may be using a pH controller- what solutions are you using to calibrate? I will need to order up some now and want to be as economical as possible. Do you purchase a larger bottle and put some in a cup? Packets?
> 
> Any details you could share on the process would be appreciated!:grin2:


The LFS near me carries the small packets of calibration fluid. I think they are like $1 or $2 each. Milwaukee - Calibration, Maintenance & Cleaning Solutions

I know I have seen them on Amazon before. They are basically 1 use only compared to Gregg's setup.


----------



## chayos00

Granted I don't have a problem, but I do use what Greggz is using for my pH meter. I got the big bottles vs the mix yourself packets for the ease of things. 

General Hydroponics Ph 4.01 & Ph... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HE7W42

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Thanks everyone! Appreciate the input!

And a couple pics tonight.


----------



## Grobbins48

Things have been deteriorating over the past couple of weeks with lower overall dosing. I am writing this from my phone right now, so I will need to post an updated dosing sheet a bit later on. 

Water column NO3 was maybe 20is or less, and PO4 was probably around 2 or so. These are super low lever for what I have typically run.

I am not sure exactly what the culprit is, however I decided to go back to dosing from about 5 or so weeks ago when things were rocking. Here is some of what I noticed.

This pogostamon Kimberly has taken a hit and this is one that really upsets me. Stunted tops... I really hope I can recover th is plant.



















More algae showing up on glass and plants. Limnophila aromatica took a hit as well. Pretty sure I can recover though.





































Massive trim to try and really clean things up good, and the a good water change! 





























Here is before and after:


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Water column NO3 was maybe 20is or less, and PO4 was probably around 2 or so. These are super low lever for what I have typically run.


Interesting update. It's good to figure out the range where your tank does best. 

I know my tank would hate me at those water column numbers. If mine get lower than NO3 30 ppm and PO4 5 ppm there can be trouble.

And I wouldn't worry too much, every one of those plants can and will recover nicely. Looking forward to seeing the next update.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Interesting update. It's good to figure out the range where your tank does best.
> 
> 
> 
> I know my tank would hate me at those water column numbers. If mine get lower than NO3 30 ppm and PO4 5 ppm there can be trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> And I wouldn't worry too much, every one of those plants can and will recover nicely. Looking forward to seeing the next update.


Good to know they are resilient plants! I was shocked when I saw the NO3 test and it was light orange. Usually it is a nice shade of red. Good thing is there was a difference in the test readings. If I was unable to see that anything changed it would be way more concerning.


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> I was shocked when I saw the NO3 test and it was light orange.


Our hobby is fascinating, any shade of orange means good for my tank and red means bad right now. I love that there are so many ways to grow plants. Even within the same tank nutrients and plant mass is always changing. 

I have to say your Kimberly is my favorite on this fourm, it gets my attention every time. I'm looking forward to see how they respond to your old recipe.


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Our hobby is fascinating, any shade of orange means good for my tank and red means bad right now. I love that there are so many ways to grow plants. Even within the same tank nutrients and plant mass is always changing.
> 
> I have to say your Kimberly is my favorite on this fourm, it gets my attention every time. I'm looking forward to see how they respond to your old recipe.


Thank you for the kind words. I agree it is fascinating how all this works out. Each tank truly is unique, and that is just another part of what makes this hobby so enjoyable!


----------



## Grobbins48

Here is the latest dosing. So reading through the last few journal entries and looking at the pictures, the Pogo K started deteriorating in this missed water change cycle... Yet again this serves to show what consistency means in these little glass boxes of water!

I'll likely run with this for a couple of weeks, and this week will also test the water column a couple of times to ensure I achieved the levels that I wanted to.


----------



## houstonreef

Grobbins48 said:


> This is a partial update again here. I'll give a real nice one when I get a few moments to organize it, but I wanted to share a trim and little rescape I did (waterchange will happen tomorrow morning, so forgive some algae on rocks and glass...)
> 
> I have removed the water sprite as it was just out of place and I never really wanted it to begin with. I also pulled out the rotala wallichii :-(. It was growing poorly and just seemed to be an algae magnet... out of 20 or so stems, there were maybe three nice ones. Oh well, moving on. Finally down to just one of each crypt. There were just too many before. Now my 29 is loaded with them, but that tank will get an overhaul sometime this month.
> 
> I did a massive trim on the ludwigia broadleaf, leaving the rooted parts and expanding the section, replanting the tops. Also the ludwigia ovalis was trimmed, replanted and expanded. Between them I replanted the baby tears and then gave it a good trim. My hope is this gets it growing well, as the store growth is pretty poor.
> 
> The hygrophila angustifolia section is now a little larger and in place of the watersprite. The baby tears former space is where my single pogostemon erectus stem is. It seems the main stem was abandoned when planting in my tank, but there is new growth that I am trying to encourage to take off. I would really like a few stems to come out of this for the tank. Will take time and patience it seems!
> 
> The monte carlo is growing well, though some older leaves are getting algae growth. I am thinking before water change time tomorrow I'll trim and siphon the MC.
> 
> Dwarf sag is doing well and growing runners everywhere. I'll let it go a bit more before pruning it. Also the hygrophila polysperma is being to really take off. Curious to see where this plant ends up.
> 
> The pinatifada is doing alright. I think it may be abandoning the old stem and focusing on new growth for each plant. Old leaves melting and falling, but starting to get some new shoots that seem to grow pretty quick.
> 
> Here is the before and after. Like it better, but still not there yet. The left side seems off to me.


How high is the substrate at the right back corner? Do you think blasting sand can go higher comparing to your back corner?

Thanks


----------



## burr740

Mini aromatica gone pale, looks like typical Fe or NO3...but its probably PO4. Going back up should help.

If those kimberly tops dont get right again pretty soon, just cut them off and let it start over with new side shoots. It's a prolific side shoot maker. Cut it down to about 3-4" stumps. The new ones will come out better and you'll have 3x as many


----------



## Grobbins48

A couple of days in and things are already beginning to turn around. I do have some cloudy water which I did have last week as well. I turned on both UV lights just now, and we will see what they can accomplish over the next day (assuming it is something they can tackle, and not a bacterial bloom). Here is the long view, you can see how it is cloudy (and makes all pictures hard to focus).










Testing the water parameters I have:

NO3: 30ppm (likely)

PO4: 2-5ppm (this test always bothers me!)













burr740 said:


> Mini aromatica gone pale, looks like typical Fe or NO3...but its probably PO4. Going back up should help.
> 
> If those kimberly tops dont get right again pretty soon, just cut them off and let it start over with new side shoots. It's a prolific side shoot maker. Cut it down to about 3-4" stumps. The new ones will come out better and you'll have 3x as many


Thank you for the feedback on that- It is crazy what I have seen in just two days. The mini aromatica is bouncing back strong. The Pogo K not so much. I have not had good success in the past with offshoots (though in the pic below you can see I am trying to save a few). Base on this I may have to make the cut on one or two of them and hope for side shoots. I really hope for them, as I have been wanting much more of this plant for a while now.






































And here are a few things that seem unphased by this whole experience. Myrio 'Red Stem' and bacopa colorata.




houstonreef said:


> How high is the substrate at the right back corner? Do you think blasting sand can go higher comparing to your back corner?
> 
> Thanks


Wow- look at those pictures! What a different tank this was just a year ago! 

As for the blasting sand in the corner, it is at least 9" tall, maybe more. It does have the lava rock under it to help add stability, along with a few homemade substrate supports. If you are asking if it can go higher than I have it, I would say I do not see why not. The biggest issue you will likely face is holding it sloped like that long term. The Monte Carlo carpet has really helped me with that, along with the lava rock and substrate supports. Just note that the higher (deeper) you go the more strategy that must be placed on retaining! 

FWIW: No issues with gas pockets, etc. over the past year of running this.


----------



## Greggz

Like Joe said, if the Pogo K. doesn't bounce back, cut it and some new shoots will form.

But I would give it a bit more time. When I changed my dosing, mine looked similar for a short time. The good news is that they bounced back and now they are better than ever. 

So don't give up on it by any means. All in all, it's a pretty resilient plant, and when it bounces back it does so quickly.


----------



## Grobbins48

Look what I found... The little gems we find in our e-mail and checking the clearance section.

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/4699/pinpoint-ph-controller?pcatid=4699&c=747+6780+4699

For those of you who are thinking of a pH controller- cannot regret getting my Milwaukee, but man this one would be nice!


----------



## Snapdragon

Read the whole thread today while sorting out all the photos on my phone and computer (and I'm still not done...). It's fascinating to see how much your tank has changed and matured over time!


----------



## Grobbins48

Snapdragon said:


> Read the whole thread today while sorting out all the photos on my phone and computer (and I'm still not done...). It's fascinating to see how much your tank has changed and matured over time!


Thank you for the kind words, I am glad you enjoyed the read. It has been a wonderful journey so far!


----------



## Grobbins48

We made it to one year (missed the posting anniversary by a few days, but close enough)! A lot has changed over this time, and even more has been learned. I first want to thank the community as a whole, as well as some of the regulars (too many to name) who give constructive feedback and amazing support.

With that said, things seem to be humming along fairly well. I just completed a MASSIVE trim (no before pictures- I just dug in and forgot to document that). I have been okay with the tank, but finding myself tired of some of the massive weekly trims with a few of the faster growing plants (I am taking to you Ambulia and Myrio Red Stem...). The thing with the fast growers is they also grow amazingly well. Right now thought I must say most everything is growing quite well. 

I did come to a realization right before this trim that led to me chopping so much: I have been keeping too many plants of each species which has been overcrowding the entire tank. I found myself trying to save every stem and replant it vs. keeping a cleaner look. Now that I have thinned things out and tried for cleaner groupings I am hopeful it will keep be entertained and happy for at least a little while!

This is where I get conflicted on what to do next. Part of me wants to try some other things out, some slower growers perhaps. I also continue to think of how I want the tank to look. I have found myself missing the hardscape element in this tank right now. Then I begin to remember that it is a 55 gallon and has no front to back room to actually scape things and have plants. Then I begin to think of upgrading to a 75 or ::cough cough:: a 4ft 120G... with the 120 though I really need to think through execution including possible structural support, and of course what filtration will be (sump... obviously>).

Part of the great thing of this forum is to write things down (say them out loud) and reflect. For now I think I will keep the 55 going and may over the next few weeks play with some hard scape ideas in it. Coming to that conclusion as I type. I want to make sure that if/when I get another tank I take my time, do it right, and make decisions I'll be happy with and that will last.

Anyways- I really hacked things back to clean it up. 

The Monte Carlo is growing really well right now. Quite impressed with it now vs. two months ago.











For those of you keeping track the Pogo K. is coming back strong. Some side shoots are growing really well, and two of the original stems are bouncing back well. I tossed two of the other ones that were not doing well (with having healthy shoots I didn't want to keep the unhealthy plant in there even with a trimmed top).










AR seems to be good- one stunted top was tossed, and most all others are doing well.










Bacopa Colorata has been growing amazing










FTS


----------



## Immortal1

Funny you mentioned a few things that almost sounded like me talking "I have been keeping too many plants of each species which has been overcrowding the entire tank" "I found myself trying to save every stem and replant it" Can't tell you how many times I have trimmed something decent looking out of the 75g and turned around and shoved it into one of the other tanks. Or in many cases simply gave it away to somebody wanting plants. 

Your Bacopa colorata looks very similar to mine, color wise. I keep hoping one of these days it will be bright pink but...
Good to hear your Pogo K is on the mend. Really is a tough plant.

Ok, now the tough part... your FTS looks great as always, but there is simply no "depth" to the scape. Your really should consider a tank with more depth - at least 18", with 24" being preferred.

(ok forum, do you think I twisted his arm enough?)


----------



## Greggz

Good to see the Pogo K. rebounding.

Funny you mention the Ambulia and Myrio, I just got a rid of mine. Like you said, great growers, but I've had them a long time and also got tired of them growing to the surface every single week. 

And every so often it's good to beat everything down, makes the entire tank healthier. Got to do it once in awhile. 

FYI 120G also comes in 5' x 18", which is what I have. You might as well get a bigger tank now, as we all know it's just a matter of time!:grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Your Bacopa colorata looks very similar to mine, color wise. I keep hoping one of these days it will be bright pink but...
> Good to hear your Pogo K is on the mend. Really is a tough plant.


I have been thinking that same thing with the bacopa myself. That is what initially got me wanting the sunblaster mini (though I have not purchased that yet... waiting for that larger tank first :wink2



Immortal1 said:


> Ok, now the tough part... your FTS looks great as always, but there is simply no "depth" to the scape. Your really should consider a tank with more depth - at least 18", with 24" being preferred.
> 
> (ok forum, do you think I twisted his arm enough?)


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: HA! This is one amazing quote... I know I bring it on myself but you guys get me every time!




Greggz said:


> FYI 120G also comes in 5' x 18", which is what I have. You might as well get a bigger tank now, as we all know it's just a matter of time!:grin2:


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: You too!!! 

And yes, honestly I would probably really enjoy the 5' version of the 120G, but my office can only hold a 4' tank with the corner L shaped desk that I have. I have thought of other ways to arrange things but the desk is 6' x 6', so not many options at this point.


----------



## RainbowRob

But, there is a solution that is still there, everyone forgot about the 110 high, best of all worlds, just a thought. Hey G


----------



## Grobbins48

RainbowRob said:


> But, there is a solution that is still there, everyone forgot about the 110 high, best of all worlds, just a thought. Hey G


Hey Rob- good to see you back! There are for sure some options... it will happen at some point. I think right now the spring time has me jazzed up for some outdoor activities! 

Planning anything with your tank?


----------



## RainbowRob

Grobbins48 said:


> Hey Rob- good to see you back! There are for sure some options... it will happen at some point. I think right now the spring time has me jazzed up for some outdoor activities!
> 
> Planning anything with your tank?



Actually after having a couple rough months health wise. Yes, I'm thinking of doing a deep sand bed in the tank, in the study stages so any comments or thoughts will be welcomed. Tank took a serious hit, will be getting back to work on it tomorrow cleaning wise.

Happy Easter.


----------



## Grobbins48

Welp... so much for cutting back on number of plant species. At the LFS and they had some things I wanted back, so I got them. Really excites to have these back and see how I do with them with more experience and a stable tank.

Ludwigia Broadleaf 

Ludwigia Peruensis

Pogostamon Erectus

Rotala Indica


Then someone on my local Facebook aquarum club asked if I would sell them some Bacopa Colorata and Ambulia. He had some AR Mini Variegated and Blyxa Japonica, so which I proposed a trade. So I now have 5 new stems of each of those.



So I went from scaling back to adding 5 species over 5 days... but I am really digging the look the the tank right now!










































































And the FTS this week


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> At the LFS and they had some things I wanted back, so I got them.
> 
> Ludwigia Broadleaf
> 
> Ludwigia Peruensis
> 
> Pogostamon Erectus
> 
> Rotala Indica
> 
> Blyxa Japonica


Broadleaf & peruensis transition well for me.
Peruensis will slowly drop emersed leaves from the bottom up.

Erectus I have never been able to transition to submerged growth.
I cannot explain why, just my bad luck maybe, tried 3 times.

B.japonica for me is a really dense grower.
Every time I pull one it has turned into 4 or 5.

I too made the mistake of visiting the dreaded LFS yesterday.
Came home with more peruensis and ammannia gracilis.
The ammannia was 10" stems and the top 5" was already converted to submerged, now I won't kill it as in the past! :grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> Broadleaf & peruensis transition well for me.
> 
> Peruensis will slowly drop emersed leaves from the bottom up.
> 
> 
> 
> Erectus I have never been able to transition to submerged growth.
> 
> I cannot explain why, just my bad luck maybe, tried 3 times.
> 
> 
> 
> B.japonica for me is a really dense grower.
> 
> Every time I pull one it has turned into 4 or 5.
> 
> 
> 
> I too made the mistake of visiting the dreaded LFS yesterday.
> 
> Came home with more peruensis and ammannia gracilis.
> 
> The ammannia was 10" stems and the top 5" was already converted to submerged, now I won't kill it as in the past! :grin2:


Can't wait to see what you do with the ammannia. What a beautiful plant! I'll need a bigger ta... nope, still can't say it...

I am really excited for the blyxa japonica, and they are really nice looking plants so have a nice start. 

The ludwigia has historically done really well for me. Tons of offshoots, especially the broadleaf. 

As for the pogo erectus, I struggled hard with it a few months back when I got hit by that staghorn invasion. When I had it previously it was a single stem of submerged that I nursed for months to have maybe 5 weeks of great looking plants. It is an awesome species when growing nicely, so hope to make it work this time.

The AR and new mini variegated versions... we will see. They struggle a bit and stunt in my water. Not sure what it is, and not overly interested in chasing a thing to try and make it work. Too many good things going right now.


Also forgot to mention I did completely uproot and start over with the s.repins. just was time to begin again.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> The AR and new mini variegated versions... we will see. They struggle a bit and stunt in my water. Not sure what it is, and not overly interested in chasing a thing to try and make it work. Too many good things going right now.


If it's any consolation, same for me. AR just not worth chasing. Maybe someday I will figure it out, but plenty of others to keep my attention.


----------



## Grobbins48

One thing I forgot to document was my pH controller probe calibration adventure.... and oh boy was it one.

This was the first time since being new I had calibrated the pH probe, and let me just say I learned a lot along the way. I started by cleaning the probe with a quick soak in bleach/ water mix. It was crazy to see the pH JUMP so high and so quickly. I then cleaned with tap and then distilled water. Then I put the probe in the 4.00pH solution (I know... rookie mistake...) to calibrate that point. Seemed pretty close, cannot remember exactly the number of tenths off, but I adjusted. Then cleaned the probe with distilled water and used the 7.00pH solution. Got everything adjusted and plopped it in the tank.

Here is where things get interesting. I knew the pH of the tank had to be around 7.6ish as it was a couple hours before the CO2 was scheduled to kick on. The results I got were somewhere in the high 6's.... I was so confused. Did some reading and realized I should set the 7.00pH level first, essentially to set a neutral point. Did the calibration over again in the correct order (not really off- if at all...) and still had wacky results on the tanks pH.

Next I decided to try another set oh pH calibration solution- maybe the bleach/ water mix did not come off all the way and it messed up the pH of the calibration solutions? Nope... Spot on and VERY quick reactions to the pH level of the solutions.

At a loss for what is happening I decide to put it in the tank and leave it for a while. About 30-45 min later, it seemed to be reading the correct pH.

So would love to hear thoughts from others, but for some reason it seems my pH probe (Milwaukee) gives readings very quickly in calibration solution, but took a lot longer to give the reading of the tank. After that 45 or so min things have been working great.

Really scared myself for a little while that I busted the probe or something!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> So would love to hear thoughts from others, but for some reason it seems my pH probe (Milwaukee) gives readings very quickly in calibration solution, but took a lot longer to give the reading of the tank. After that 45 or so min things have been working great.


Pretty typical. With pH calibration solutions my American Pinpoint Marine always goes right to it. From one water sample to another takes maybe 20 minutes and slowly gets there.

Funny thing is if I turn the pH controller off, then stick the probe in a sample for five minutes, when I turn the controller back on the reading is correct immediately. Go figure. I have no idea why, but seems to be consistent.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Pretty typical. With pH calibration solutions my American Pinpoint Marine always goes right to it. From one water sample to another takes maybe 20 minutes and slowly gets there.
> 
> Funny thing is if I turn the pH controller off, then stick the probe in a sample for five minutes, when I turn the controller back on the reading is correct immediately. Go figure. I have no idea why, but seems to be consistent.


Phew... It was an hour of slight panic for sure... But thank you for validating what I experienced!


----------



## Grobbins48

Nice big trim was done this past weekend. @Maryland guppy the Pogo E. did not make it- wouldn't transition to submerged growth, and was not worth the hassle it was creating for me so it got tossed. That being said, I have had some BGA present for a while now, but the past couple weeks it has gotten pretty bad. I took a bunch of time to clean out as mush as I could during the maintenance. Then I decided that it was time for an Erythromycin treatment to knock it out. I put in 60 gallons worth of the API packets (6) last night. We will see how this works. In the past it has done well for me. The limnophila aromatica mini was hit HARD by the BGA, and because of this was trimmed back to just a few stubs. It should grow back just fine, but most everything was just covered in BGA.










Most things are growing quite well right now. The Pogo K. is rocking, as well as both ludwigia broadleaf and peruensis which I have really happy to have back. 




























The rotala indica is transitioning, but will need more time before the first trim. 

Blyxa Japonica is taking well to the water and growing at a decent rate. 










Clinopodium brownei and limnophila rugosa are not the healthiest right now- but usually bounce back pretty well. For the time I am good only keep a few stems of each of them vs. the large dramatic displays I was attempting before.

Dosing is staying the same for now. Things are going well. The BGA was more my fault than anything- Spring time and not keeping on the filter cleaning as much as I should be. Water changes only go so far! 

Only change is I'll run just one of the lights for a little while. I had bumped up the time the two lights were one, but that was just too much for right now. DHL 1W 6500K it is for the time being...

Before:









After:


----------



## Ken Keating1

The tanks looking great!


----------



## Grobbins48

Amazing how well the erythromycin had worked. Things are looking really good right now. I did order some Ultra Life blue green slime remover from Amazon. Figured I can dose that after the next water change to make sure I have a fresh start.

I did lose one cory, but I feel like that is unrelated, as the other four are doing just fine.


----------



## Grobbins48

pH dropped super fast today, bottomed out in less than an hour. Checked the tank and regulator and I was less than 500psi in the tank and over 60psi for the output. Really happy with the investment of the pH controller more and more all the time! With the holiday weekend coming up I was lucky enough to have a bit of time to get to the beer store and grab a fresh 10lb!


83 days, so a bit shorter than the 100 days for the last tank.


----------



## cl3537

Maryland Guppy said:


> Erectus I have never been able to transition to submerged growth.


Pogostemon Erectus does not do well with high water column ferts particularly EI Micros, same with Rotalas and most of the Lythraceae family of plants, although some species are more sensitive than others.


----------



## Grobbins48

cl3537 said:


> Pogostemon Erectus does not do well with high water column ferts particularly EI Micros, same with Rotalas and most of the Lythraceae family of plants, although some species are more sensitive than others.


Yeah- in the past I did okay with it when it was already submerged- not the best though. This time around was no good transitioning. 

Ludwigia does quite well in my water parameters, always branching off.


----------



## Nlewis

Grobbins48 said:


> pH dropped super fast today, bottomed out in less than an hour. Checked the tank and regulator and I was less than 500psi in the tank and over 60psi for the output. Really happy with the investment of the pH controller more and more all the time! With the holiday weekend coming up I was lucky enough to have a bit of time to get to the beer store and grab a fresh 10lb!
> 
> 
> 83 days, so a bit shorter than the 100 days for the last tank.




I hope you got beer as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Maryland Guppy

cl3537 said:


> Pogostemon Erectus does not do well with high water column ferts particularly EI Micros, same with Rotalas and most of the Lythraceae family of plants.


@cl6567 I'd bet micros in my tank are well below others by far and well below EI levels.

I always have at least 20-30 stems of this on hand.

The issue: transitioning to submerged as previously stated.
All those hard brittle leaves hit the substrate, looking like a pine in the forest dying. >
All in less than 48 hours. :|

Few years ago I happened on a nice bag of already submerged growth. :smile2:


----------



## cl3537

Maryland Guppy said:


> @cl6567 I'd bet micros in my tank are well below others by far and well below EI levels


There are two major isotopes of Chlorine, Cl35 and Cl37 , 65 and 67 wouldn't be Cl anymore .


> The issue: transitioning to submerged as previously stated.



I am referring to slow, branched, stunted growth. In my tank at weekly dosing levels of 0.45 Fe I stunted it. It doesn't need much to grow healthy, in Macros or Micros. I unstunted new growth by floating it in very lean dosing for a week or two.

For me the health of new leaves is more important, the old stem could lose its needles but if new growth is fast and healthy long term its manageable. Its pretty common for TC plants to lose their old leaves when being transitioned whether it be P. Erectus or somethingelse.



> All those hard brittle leaves hit the substrate, looking like a pine in the forest dying. >
> All in less than 48 hours. :|


I didn't see anything that dramatic in my tank from Tropica TC, but I was dosing very lean with Tropica Aquasoil.
I don't know if high ferts causes problems with the transition or not but if new growth is stunted the plant isn't going to do very well.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

cl3537 said:


> There are two major isotopes of Chlorine, Cl35 and Cl37 , 65 and 67 wouldn't be Cl anymore .
> 
> In my tank at weekly dosing levels of 0.45 Fe I stunted it. It doesn't need much to grow healthy, in Macros or Micros.
> 
> Its pretty common for TC plants to lose their old leaves when being transitioned whether it be P. Erectus or somethingelse.


35, 37, 67, 93, 97 chlorine doesn't matter, detrimental to our eventual outcome anyway.

Might as well dosed .5ppm of Fe and called it EI dosing!

I've never professed EI micro dosing.
Having measured daily uptake @ .015ppm of Fe with colorimeter test.


----------



## cl3537

Maryland Guppy said:


> 35, 37, 67, 93, 97 chlorine doesn't matter, detrimental to our eventual outcome anyway.
> 
> Might as well dosed .5ppm of Fe and called it EI dosing!
> 
> I've never professed EI micro dosing.
> Having measured daily uptake @ .015ppm of Fe with colorimeter test.


If your dosing 0.3 and your uptake is only 0.1 weekly. Your excess is 0.2 and you are only doing 20%(?) water changes. You could end up with 1.0 Fe in accumulation over time.


----------



## Hendy8888

cl3537 said:


> I am referring to slow, branched, stunted growth. In my tank at weekly dosing levels of 0.45 Fe I stunted it. It doesn't need much to grow healthy, in Macros or Micros. I unstunted new growth by floating it in very lean dosing for a week or two.


I dosed 0.5 Fe/week for months, now at 0.4 Fe/week, P. Erectus is an absolute weed in my tank. It has never tried to stunt at those Fe levels. Arn't plants fun?
Here's a pic at 0.5 Fe:


----------



## Maryland Guppy

cl3537 said:


> If your dosing 0.3 and your uptake is only 0.1 weekly. Your excess is 0.2 and you are only doing 20%(?) water changes. You could end up with 1.0 Fe in accumulation over time.


Change even less than 20%.

I don't dose three times a week, target the water column only.
Try to keep .25ppm in the water column.
Roughly every 10th day Fe micro dose is .15ppm
This is very different than EI dosing just using the same bottled solution.
On the 10th day it reads .05 to .08ppm of Fe before dosing.


----------



## cl3537

Hendy8888 said:


> I dosed 0.5 Fe/week for months, now at 0.4 Fe/week, P. Erectus is an absolute weed in my tank. It has never tried to stunt at those Fe levels. Arn't plants fun?
> Here's a pic at 0.5 Fe:


Beautiful, Vin's testing on the Rotala Kill Tank showed clear stunting at 0.6ppm FE dosed weekly.
https://barrreport.com/threads/rotala-kill-tank.13975/page-25#post-144188

But his dosing was a little higher maybe 0.6 - 0.7ppm Fe weekly and the x-factor which is probably the OTHER plants you have in your tank whereas his tanks were not so heavily planted. Also Substrate(CEC or Inert) his was inert and Kh will be factors.


----------



## Hendy8888

cl3537 said:


> Beautiful, Vin's testing on the Rotala Kill Tank showed clear stunting at 0.6ppm FE dosed weekly.
> https://barrreport.com/threads/rotala-kill-tank.13975/page-25#post-144188
> 
> But his dosing was a little higher maybe 0.6 - 0.7ppm Fe weekly and the x-factor which is probably the OTHER plants you have in your tank whereas his tanks were not so heavily planted. Also Substrate(CEC or Inert) his was inert and Kh will be factors.


I think what I'm getting at and the tone of what post's I did read in Vin's thread is that these are general observations not bold statements. There are so many variables tank to tank I find it difficult to reach a conclusion like 'x' amount of Fe will stunt 'x' species. I'm much more comfortable seeing advice like 'x' species prefers lower micros.


----------



## cl3537

Hendy8888 said:


> I think what I'm getting at and the tone of what post's I did read in Vin's thread is that these are general observations not bold statements. There are so many variables tank to tank I find it difficult to reach a conclusion like 'x' amount of Fe will stunt 'x' species. I'm much more comfortable seeing advice like 'x' species prefers lower micros.


He was able to show stunting and then unstunting when placing about 30 species of plants belonging to the Lythraceae family as well as others like Pogotstemon Erectus in a tank with leaner ferts.

I have demonstrated the same thing in my tank, I had stunted P. Erectus and R. Rotundifolia and they have both improved when moved to a rescaped tank with leaner ferts.

You and others comparing someone's tank to yours should keep that in mind in your differential diagnosis, instead of assuming its always a deficiency (CO2 or Ferts).

P. Erectus is not the most sensitive species, so its fine in some people's tanks, but it does exhibit stunting in others and that is the point.
Toxicities are much more difficult to reverse than deficiencies.


----------



## ipkiss




----------



## burr740

Its not just micros, p erectus like lower ferts in general.


----------



## cl3537

burr740 said:


> Its not just micros, p erectus like lower ferts in general.


But what is low enough especially if you have a some higher demand stems in the same tank?

/barrreport.com/threads/rotala-kill-tank.13975/page-25

"This (below) is what two stems planted in Tank A at the same time turned into. This tank had unlimited fertilizer - 30 ppm nitrates, 4 ppm phosphate, 27 ppm potassium per week, along with 0.2 ppm Fe as CSM+B three times a week. Rich CO2 and plenty of light. In other words, everything a plants non-existent heart may desire. If I may sound presidential for a second, 'Sad!' "


----------



## burr740

cl3537 said:


> But what is low enough especially if you have a some higher demand stems in the same tank?


Its tank specific, no one size fits all.

My old 75 at 15/3/15 macros and .3 micros weekly. Sand substrate, high co2 and 130 par at the sub


----------



## cl3537

burr740 said:


> Its tank specific, no one size fits all.
> 
> My old 75 at 15/3/15 macros and .3 micros weekly. Sand substrate, high co2 and 130 par at the sub


Nice and that is probably pushing it for most people who don't have such a tank full of healthy stems.
Do you know what your uptake rates were like in that tank?


----------



## burr740

cl3537 said:


> Nice and that is probably pushing it for most people who don't have such a tank full of healthy stems.
> Do you know what your uptake rates were like in that tank?


No idea


----------



## Maryland Guppy

cl3537 said:


> Do you know what your uptake rates were like in that tank?


FWIW don't know any trying to determine uptake other than myself @ this time.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

burr740 said:


> Its tank specific, no one size fits all.


According to "Frank" it's all good, God rest his soul!!! :|








Evelyn, a modified dog!!! >


----------



## cl3537

Maryland Guppy said:


> FWIW don't know any trying to determine uptake other than myself @ this time.


Its not one size fits all, but I know Rotala R and Pogostemon E stunt easier in a low uptake tank than they would in something with higher density and hungrier stems.

The more sensitive species of Ammania on the other hand stunt both with too much competition and also with excess Micros.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> @Maryland guppy the Pogo E. did not make it- wouldn't transition to submerged growth, and was not worth the hassle it was creating for me so it got tossed.


 @Grobbins48 after reading this over again, if you received this plant from me it could have only been submerged growth.

Sorry for hijacking this thread lately.:|


----------



## Grobbins48

Been meaning to reply all weekend but have been in The Great North (Canada) and even though I had service it didn't want to connect to the TPT server. Anyways..


Maryland Guppy said:


> @Grobbins48 after reading this over again, if you received this plant from me it could have only been submerged growth.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for hijacking this thread lately.:|


At one point I had a few stems looking really nice if you rememver- then had a nasty staghorn invasion that took them out. 

I would try it again, only this time with already submerged versions vs. trying to get it to convert myself. I may hit you up later on, pending other tank plans. No need to be sorry- always enjoy the coversation.


----------



## Grobbins48

Opening up the windows this morning the bit of natural sun that hit the tank really make me take a second look. Couldn't get any shots of the front with the glare but these side views show some nice color in the morning sun!


----------



## Immortal1

I am always amazed at how nice the plants look when the sun shines thru the window and yet, with some fancy LED lights I can't quite generate the same look.
those end of tank shots like great!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> I am always amazed at how nice the plants look when the sun shines thru the window and yet, with some fancy LED lights I can't quite generate the same look.
> 
> those end of tank shots like great!


Agree, there is something special about that morning light! Thanks!


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> I am always amazed at how nice the plants look when the sun shines thru the window


Agreed. Always good to see a different perspective of the tank. 

Very nice pics!


----------



## Grobbins48

Soooo....

What other plants should I be trying? Feel like I need to branch out a bit. Some things that interest me are ludwigia super red, I think there is another red one but cannot remember the name, Atlantis I believe is one that was talked about a lot recently. Other than those (because ludwigia does really well in my tank) I am not sure what to try.

This is where the community comes in! I am hoping for some suggestions of thing I might be able to get ahold of and try!

Let the suggestions and discussions begin!


----------



## burr740

Everybody needs some reds in their life! Senegalensis is a nice ludwigia, small.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Ludwigia sp. red is a very red plant for sure, don't get much redder!!!
Atlantis has tone more toward orange, polycarpa can be a tri-colored plant with high PAR @ the top of the tank.

Rotala H'ra is an easy grower with pink/red growth.
An inexpensive rotala species that grows well.

Brevipes with yellow to orange tips looks nice.

Arcuata has red narrow leaves but can get stringy with roots @ too many nodes.


----------



## Grobbins48

Make sure your toddler does not topple over your glass lids- though this was a quick way to bump up par!










NO3 ~30ppm
PO4 ~ 5ppm










BGA all gone, and all is doing well after a trim and water change. Here are a few plant shots:


















































































And a few of the fish too!


----------



## Greggz

No surprise that I love the Bow pics.......nice shots.

Plant pics are great too. Glad to see the BGA is gone. Any changes in dosing or lights?

And is that L. Peruensis?


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> No surprise that I love the Bow pics.......nice shots.
> 
> 
> 
> Plant pics are great too. Glad to see the BGA is gone. Any changes in dosing or lights?
> 
> 
> 
> And is that L. Peruensis?


Thanks Gregg! 

Dosing has remained the same for the past few months- adding the following after each 70% water change:

NO3: 30ppm
PO4: 8ppm
K: 30ppm
Mg: 7ppm

Lighting is the same, though have a broken glass lid for the back, and running no lids at the moment.

Lighting cycle remains the 8hrs with 4 hrs in middle with both lights on. Considering making the 110ish par portion longer now that BBA is gone and things are humming along.

And yes, it is L.Peruensis- my second go with it, and I am glad I have it back! You have it in you tank right now, right Gregg? What is it looking like?


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> And yes, it is L.Peruensis- my second go with it, and I am glad I have it back! You have it in you tank right now, right Gregg? What is it looking like?


Started with small stems, and only about 6" tall now, so a long way to get near the light.

So far, so good..........................


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Started with small stems, and only about 6" tall now, so a long way to get near the light.
> 
> 
> 
> So far, so good..........................


Looking good. It is quite the slow grower, maybe an inch a week or so. 

Mine was emersed grown and converted over to submerged quite well. During its transition it threw out more daughter plants than I had room for, so I have these four large stems at the moment. The tallest is about half way to the surface, so we have a while!


----------



## Grobbins48

Just a few more for fun- playing with shadows and highlights in the pro settings. Not an every day thing, but fun to toy with!


----------



## Grobbins48

Just a water change!

With no glass lids right now the PAR levers are much highet. According to post #284 I am anywhere between 130 and 155 PAR at the substrate right now... hmm might need to fix that soon...

This led to a slight algae uptick, but nothing horrible. I also think some of the older emersed growth leaves that are dying off led to a little algae as well. 


Did a nice little trim to rid of all remaining emerged growth and we should be good to go!


----------



## Grobbins48

@Quagulator I now have experienced what you mean about the Monte Carlo getting too much and trapping a fish. Lucky for me (at least for the time being) he seems to be okay, although banged up pretty good. This carpet needs to be trimmed, and may be seeing its final days...

In other news, with running no glass lids the PAR levels are 80/145- And I am gonna keep it up for a little while just to experience it. Both the AR and AR mini variegated are collecting staghorne algae, but they never really do that well anyways.

My micros bottle ran out, so while mixing up a new batch I decided to lower B to .03 from .05. No other reason besides the stories of too much B being toxic, figured I would lower and see if anything happened.

I do have one Pogo K stem that looks like it is about to stunt. My plan, if all goes well, is to water change tonight (last one was Thursday, but I'll be traveling next week, so trying to keep things clean and good) and see if anything changes balance of the week.

Here is the latest dosing sheet


----------



## Grobbins48

Here is the quick picture I grabbed- he is doing well and eating today.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Crazy how they'll get way underneath. I lost two of my dwarf rainbows because of lifting MC.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Crazy how they'll get way underneath. I lost two of my dwarf rainbows because of lifting MC.


That's right, I knew someone else had that same issue, just forgot it was you!

It will get fixed this weekend. Water change quick last night to keep things clean. Only running one light right now, no lids. It is summer time, I am okay if the plants allow down a bit!


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> It will get fixed this weekend.


Once you start pulling the carpet up, just yank the whole danrn thing out and start from scratch, don't try and "save" the existing carpet. 

YMMV....


----------



## RollaPrime

Ken Keating1 said:


> Crazy how they'll get way underneath. I lost two of my dwarf rainbows because of lifting MC.


Are we talking Dwarf Neon Rainbows? If so they remain the craziest species of fish I've ever kept.


@Grobbins48 I know you've been advised against it but is there no way to save the carpet. Perhaps give it a light trim and let it flourish. It looks way too lush to discard in my humble opinion.


----------



## Grobbins48

RollaPrime said:


> @Grobbins48 I know you've been advised against it but is there no way to save the carpet. Perhaps give it a light trim and let it flourish. It looks way too lush to discard in my humble opinion.


Jury is still out on what I will do- I have a few ideas right now, but only time will tell.

It is super healthy, lush, and beautiful right now. I shared that picture of the rainbow above on my local aquarium Facebook group and within a few minutes had three or four people want to buy some of the monte carlo off me.

Now, that's not what I am in the hobby for, and I would rather trade with someone or gift it to them in place of selling it, as I had some people support me with donations when I was getting started! 

I have done the trim in the past where I keep the roots and let it grow back. Really depends on how things look post trim.


----------



## RollaPrime

Grobbins48 said:


> Jury is still out on what I will do- I have a few ideas right now, but only time will tell.
> 
> It is super healthy, lush, and beautiful right now. I shared that picture of the rainbow above on my local aquarium Facebook group and within a few minutes had three or four people want to buy some of the monte carlo off me.
> 
> Now, that's not what I am in the hobby for, and I would rather trade with someone or gift it to them in place of selling it, as I had some people support me with donations when I was getting started!
> 
> I have done the trim in the past where I keep the roots and let it grow back. Really depends on how things look post trim.


Trimming and selling it is a good idea. If I was in the market I'd definitely buy some from you. When it comes to monte carlo your overgrown plant looks as healthy as healthy gets so why not?


----------



## Ken Keating1

I agree with @Quagulator, just rip the entire carpet up and clean the gravel underneath. If you want another carpet, just replant small portions here and there and it'll grow back in no time. But the 2nd time around mow the carpet every couple of weeks to keep it low, otherwise it gets overgrown pretty fast. I didn't do the mowing and I wish I did.
 @RollaPrime, yes, it was Dwarf Neon Rainbows that got caught underneath. Not sure how they did it as the lifted portion was right next to the glass. Crazy buggers!


----------



## Grobbins48

Have not done a trim yet, but snapped a few pictures.


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> Have not done a trim yet, but snapped a few pictures.


What is the third plant down? I love the red stem and feathery green foliage.


----------



## Streetwise

Well done! Excellent balance in scape, fish, and photos.


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> What is the third plant down? I love the red stem and feathery green foliage.


Are you thinking of the Myrio Red (Myriophyllum heterophyllum)?


----------



## Grobbins48

Streetwise said:


> Well done! Excellent balance in scape, fish, and photos.


Thank you, I appreciate the kind words!


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> Are you thinking of the Myrio Red (Myriophyllum heterophyllum)?


I guess, I dont know. Ill look it up. Very pretty plant.


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> I guess, I dont know. Ill look it up. Very pretty plant.


First picture is ambulia, second is the myrio red stem and third is ludwigia broadleaf. 

The myrio red is a super fast grower, an inch a day in my tank, and needs weekly topping and replanting. But I agree with you, it's a beauty and easy to manage despite the frequent trimming and I love it!


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> First picture is ambulia, second is the myrio red stem and third is ludwigia broadleaf.
> 
> The myrio red is a super fast grower, an inch a day in my tank, and needs weekly topping and replanting. But I agree with you, it's a beauty and easy to manage despite the frequent trimming and I love it!


 Geezo, your right. It is the second picture. :redface:
Yes, thats the plant. You think it would do okay without Co2?


----------



## Ken Keating1

Beautiful colors and photos G48, especially that 1st photo. Well done!


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> Geezo, your right. It is the second picture. :redface:
> Yes, thats the plant. You think it would do okay without Co2?


Haha I thought it might be the second one! I honestly have no idea how it would grow with no CO2 as I have never tried. I originally got some trimmings from @Greggz so this plant.


Ken Keating1 said:


> Beautiful colors and photos G48, especially that 1st photo. Well done!


Thanks Ken!


----------



## Grobbins48

So I did a thing.....


----------



## RollaPrime

If I lived in the states I'd make you an offer asap for that thing!


----------



## Grobbins48

Here are a few more shots. I had been growing out some java fern in my blackwater tank. Today I took out all the little plants and brought them to the high tech tank. I hope to see them take off and do well here. Used super glue to fix them to the small driftwood. 

The monte carlo was quite frustrating to me to replant, so I didn't replant a whole ton of it. Part of me wants to move on and try something new, but I'll leave it for right now.

Happy fathers day to all the dads out there!


----------



## Grobbins48

Ludwigia broadleaf at the surface a couple days ago.


----------



## Grobbins48

Wow, lots of mass and little maintnance... 

Pretty big trim, some BBA, but enjoying summertime.

Have been running 150ish PAR, but will bump down to one fixture for a while. Just no need for all the power right now!


----------



## Grobbins48

Hi Everyone,

I hope everyone is having a great summer! Been just over a month since my last update- and like most on this forum I have summer fever; I try to soak in every moment of summer I can here in Upstate New York. Not spending much time on TPT, though I am sure it will pick up over the coming months.

That said, I have also not spent a ton of time on the tanks- and things have not rebelled too hard; actually some things are much better with a few changed I implemented the past few months.

As some of you know one of my glass lids broke, leaving me with a choice: Get a new glass lid or run no lids. I opted for the latter. Initially I kept running both Beamsworks lights, giving me ~150 PAR at the substrate. If I stayed on maintenance and water changes, etc. I was able to manage this PAR, however it also took a lot of balancing with the fert levels and all other inputs. Given that it was early spring then, I made the decision to pull off one of the lights and run a single Beamswork (the DHL 6500K 1W). This put me somewhere between 60 and 75 PAR at the substrate, a much more manageable level for the coming months.

Some of you may remember the Pogo K. giving me some massive issues. Well, I think the way I have the tank running now is just about perfect for this plant. I have tons of shoots that are thriving!










Overall the summer has been really enjoyable for me so far, and this hour and a half session I just put into the tank feels good (rainy day here in UNY), and give the fish quite a bit more swimming room, as they are really starting to grow as well. 

Going to keep the single light running for a while, keep with the same ferts I have been running for a while (micros are only 1 or 2 times per water change, with water changes currently being 7-14 days apart). 

Here are a few photos, enjoy!

Few weeks ago before a trim... oops....










After that trim:










Today before:






































Today after the trim, with lots more swimming room!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Good to see you post G48 and good to know your having a fun summer also. As much as I enjoy the tank, for me I wouldn't be able to keep 100% of my focus on it year round without worrying about getting burned out, so it's nice to sort of sit back on the care a few months and let it ride out the lack of maintenance. And I learn something when this happens, as some plants do much better, some not so better.

You're tank is looking great. Interesting about cutting back on the light by 1/2, and it still looks really good. Did you notice any decrease in algae or other significant observations?


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Good to see you post G48 and good to know your having a fun summer also. As much as I enjoy the tank, for me I wouldn't be able to keep 100% of my focus on it year round without worrying about getting burned out, so it's nice to sort of sit back on the care a few months and let it ride out the lack of maintenance. And I learn something when this happens, as some plants do much better, some not so better.
> 
> 
> 
> You're tank is looking great. Interesting about cutting back on the light by 1/2, and it still looks really good. Did you notice any decrease in algae or other significant observations?


Completely agree Ken! I enjoy the ebb and flow of the whole thing.

Yeah, crazy about the tank still doing so well with only changing light. Algae is less for sure, though BBA had increased, likely due to not cleaning the canisters in at least 8 weeks. I'll get to them at some point, but I gave gotten better at changing the water weekly.

I figure when the frost and snow and cold hit I'll be right back at it!


----------



## Grobbins48

Just a few


----------



## Streetwise

Awesome tanks. I find I need multiple tanks to give each one the neglect they deserve when thriving. 😉


----------



## Grobbins48

Another summer style water change. All is well!

Start off with some fish





















































And the rest




























Hope everyone is doing well, I expect to be on more in the coming few months.


----------



## Grobbins48

Hope all are doing well! Three weeks between water changes, with only one front load of macros and one dose of micros. Pretty impressed how things have been holding up. More details to come in a later post, but here are some pictures. Enjoy!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Grobbins48 said:


> Hope all are doing well! Three weeks between water changes, with only one front load of macros and one dose of micros. Pretty impressed how things have been holding up. More details to come in a later post, but here are some pictures.


Yes, do tell us more!! I need to leave my tank on it's own for 3 weeks and any insight would be appreciated. The fish and tank will be watched over, but I don't trust anyone with the ferts and WC.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Yes, do tell us more!! I need to leave my tank on it's own for 3 weeks and any insight would be appreciated. The fish and tank will be watched over, but I don't trust anyone with the ferts and WC.


Hey Ken- Sure, I'll detail out what I have been doing, albeit not very scientific!

First and foremost was only running the one Beamsworks fixture all summer. This gave me a maximum of 80 PAR at the substrate. Once I got the numbers out of my head and looked at the tank, the 6,500K fixture is quite a relaxing blend that looked more 'nautral' to me. I also have not been running lids since about March or so, so the one fixture with no lids still gives off quite a bit of PAR. Lights are running 8 hrs a day at full (12pm - 8pm)

With that in mind, the CO2 has stayed the same. Full degassed is ~8.0 and I drop to between 6.4 and 6.6 (the trigger points on my controller). No issues with the fish at this level, plenty of surface agitation and a surface skimmer running on one of the canisters. Running for 2 hrs before lights on (getting to 6.6ish) and stopping one hour before lights off. 

For ferts I have keep things the same since March as well, which is the dosing I was using at ~145 PAR. I'll add that dosing picture below. I have been front loading all the macros after the water change and then adding a single dose of micros as well. After that I usually add a dose of the Met 14, but that tends to be the only dose I am giving the tank over that time.

Weekly I have been topping of the tank when I begin to hear the sounds of the water coming from the outputs. It is in my office so I hear it quite well. Simply just add water and Seachem Safe, nothing more. I have not even been pulling out dead/ floating leaves, etc. Really, quite the opposite of what this journal preaches most of the time!

As for filter maintenance, I have probably not opened them up since May? Again, against everything I have said, but just have not gotten around to it. I am sure they are horribly nasty inside, and I do need to get to them...

Feeding this fish has been super simple, just using a few different foods and feeding 4-5 times a week. When I am not around (usually no more than 3 days in a row) I just let them be. A few times I have left API test tubes filled with the right amount of dry food for the family to feed them, and at times they remember, at times they forget! Using primarily Hikari Vibra Bites and New Life Spectrum pellets. At times they will get some cubes of frozen blood worms, maybe once a week? Mainly because it is fun to watch them eat those. 

As for the plants, between water change the ones that hit the surface I may rip up and replant, or at times just top them and let them keep growing. Right now the plant selection is fairly simple as you can see by the pictures. The limnophila aromatica mini did not take well to this routine, and was tossed back in June time I believe? It would do fantastic after a water change, but after missing 1 week of water change it would stunt. Ludwigia Broadleaf couldn't be performing any better- it loves my water. The ludwigia peruensis is good for 2-3 weeks before it wants to stunt, otherwise does well. The Pogo K, which I had issues with earlier in the year, is doing amazing. Not super think with the stems, but TONS of them. Really happy with the presentation. Others are pretty well status quo. Maybe some stunting after the 3rd week (usually this will be water change time for me) otherwise pretty happy. 

The algae as been interesting to me. When I first started these tanks and joined the forum, my goal was tanks like George Farmer, Green Aqua, etc. which were virtually algae free. It really bothered me when I could not achieve this. Now that I have did achieve that in the past for a few months, with high light, etc. I have reached a point where I am balancing between enjoying the fish and the pants. A bit of algae does not bother me, but I suppose it depends what kind. There are select areas where there is BBA, specifically the rocks, S. Repins, and Java Fern. I have come so accept that, and live with it- and let me tell you I am much happier for it! I am not in competition, just enjoying this for myself and my family and visitors to the house (and maybe some here? haha!). There is really no other forms of algae on the plants, no green spot, or dust or hair (knock on wood) or anything really. The glass gets some GDA by week 3, which comes off easy, maybe a little BBA in the back corners as well. Nothing horrible.

You also know about the H2O2/ Met 14 mix spray bottle I do use on water changes to spray the hardware. I take care not to hit any of the plants with this mix, trying to avoid potentially burning them. Every few months all the hardware comes out and get a bleach/ water soak. This removes anything that accumulated over time. 

I think this covers most everything, but If you have a question on something I missed I would be happy to add some more. Like I mentioned above, nothing too scientific. I think the key is the 'lower' light level, keeping CO2 bumped high, and some luck? Haha.

Now that the temperatures have swung from 88 as a high to 35 as a low... I suppose I'll be a bit more active on here. Missed lots of conversation over the summer, but hope to get back up to speed and see how everyone is doing!

Reminder: The lighting is 80 for 8, never more. The Micros tend to be just one dose.


----------



## ipkiss

Yup. Sounds like the way I run my tank . Right down to the random hidden tufts of bba and 2nd-3rd week green dust algae that signals that it's time for a water change. I believe the reduction of light is key as it is the "gas pedal.". While I don't do 80 for 8, I spike it for 100 for 2 and probably 30 for the other 6. Probably when overgrown, it's much less. The point is, as you can see, it seems that there is a lot of leeway in this lower light range. 

I couldn't give up some of my pickier stems so I've given up on front loading micros and went back to daily. They definitely liked that. Front loading macros work okay but I feel odd throwing down so much after a water change so I throttled it to weekly. Otherwise, I have no doubts that I can let alone for 3 weeks if I had to go away. Especially if it's only one time away and not some regular reoccurring business trip situation. You probably wouldn't even use up your plants' reserves in 3 weeks. For the same reason, I usually cut light intensity and duration in half for long trips for a little extra insurance or just leave as is if it's just a long weekend away.

PS @Grobbins48 , don't worry, we're also in the same no filter maintenance club. Haven't opened it since the January update in my journal. Then again, it's just poret foam in there with a poret foam pre filter. Probably not much need to. When I last checked, only decomposed mulm makes its way there or whatever makes its way there, it quicky becomes that, so it's like extra substrate. Unless I get reduced flow, it's just a water mover. Probably wouldn't preach this style of tank keeping for everyone, but in the right situation, it seems to be okay.


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## Ken Keating1

@Grobbins48 : Thanks for the thorough explanation on what you're doing, this helps me out a lot in trying to figure out what to do with my tank while I'm away. I like the reduced lighting approach. Currently my lights are one only 6 hours, so I may reduce that a little bit, but definitely will reduce the intensity. 

And I'm on the same boat as you, I'm much happier when I don't fret about the tank not being perfect. It's a balance with our tanks and other activities. Plus sometimes it amazes me how I fret over plant/tank issues and work hard to resolve it, and nothing happens, when other times I'm too busy and do nothing and the tank rights itself without outside help. 
@ipkiss : Thanks for your input also, it good to know others are doing the same thing successfully.

But for the both of you, you need to get in there and change those filters!!!! Otherwise I'm gonna start questioning how often I clean my filters and I don't want to go down that rabbit hole!


----------



## Greggz

Ken Keating1 said:


> @Grobbins48 : Thanks for the thorough explanation on what you're doing, this helps me out a lot in trying to figure out what to do with my tank while I'm away. I like the reduced lighting approach. Currently my lights are one only 6 hours, so I may reduce that a little bit, but definitely will reduce the intensity.


The first time I went away for two weeks I cut light intensity/duration way back as part of my strategy.

It was interesting. Some plants hardly blinked, while others rebelled. Of course, the complainers were light hungry plants like L. Pantanal, Rotala Mac. Var./etc. They raced to the surface trying to get nearer the light, and the fast growth was very thin and weak. Took a while to recover. Others went from rich color to more greenish, like L. Sp. Rubin and Peruensis.

Just saying it can be a mixed bag depending on what you have in the tank. If I was leaving for an extended period now, would cut back light very little and continue normal ferts. I would just hack things down before I left. 

Now as to filters, I think that could be light related as well. The more light, the more you are on the edge and need every advantage. Lower light likely provides more room for error.

And here is the thing. I am sure less light would make everything easier..........but I can't drive 55!!:wink2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> [MENTION=348418]
> 
> But for the both of you, you need to get in there and change those filters!!!! Otherwise I'm gonna start questioning how often I clean my filters and I don't want to go down that rabbit hole!


So very true- Literally complete opposite of what I say all the time! Maybe in the next couple of weeks... HA! Though honestly I am on the search for new canisters. The SunSun's are just getting loud, and it is in my office all day. Funny thing is, the SunSun on my blackwater tank is silent. Strange...

Taking recomendations on silent canister filters, gonna need two of them!



Greggz said:


> And here is the thing. I am sure less light would make everything easier..........but I can't drive 55!!:wink2:


Ain't that the truth! However, at one point I was getting sick of driving all together (figuratively speaking about the tank, of course) so I figured letting off the throttle would be my best bet, for the time being at least!

Now for the rainbows, I am really enjoying them! It is interesting, I feel like since taking the light down there is much more livelihood in the tank. More activity, and the cherry barbs are non stop spawning, which is great because the females were getting bloated and egg bound. Overall, I feel like I hit a healthy stride with the tank (minus the filters... yes I need to service them!)


----------



## Grobbins48

Added the driftwood back in today during maintenance. Also move all the otos over to the blackwater so they are all together in a group of like 14 or so? Hard to count them all. The LFS has some panda gara's and I think I'll grab a few this week for the 55.

Thought a little change would be good!


----------



## Grobbins48

Grabbed 4 of these beauties today. Could not resist!


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## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> Grabbed 4 of these beauties today. Could not resist!


Beauties, indeed. Excellent color on these.


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## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> Beauties, indeed. Excellent color on these.


The LFS I go to now is a year old, and has fantastic business practices. All fish are quarantine in a separate area (basement) to ensure maximum health. This guy is sure doing LFS the right way!


----------



## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> Grabbed 4 of these beauties today. Could not resist!




Glad to see you picked up 4, they usually like hanging out and seem to play. They can surely jump so keep a lid on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

Scrubbed and clean out both filters today. I feel clean myself now!!!


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## Grobbins48

One of my LFS has a few plants I want to try- ludwigia Cuba, and limnophila hippuroides. My concern is they are emerged stems, and transiting them to submetged... ludwigia had been a solid genus in my tank, so maybe not as worried.about that vs. Thr limnophila (which I recently just lost my aromatica mini). 

Water parameters have remained stable since March, but I feel like with this deep canister cleaning the plants will be much happier. 

Old water (before the change) was high in N03- no shock there with all the organics in the filter. Somewhere between 40-80ppm. The new tested out around 20-30, which is where I dose.

PO4 between 5-10ppm for both.

Looking to get more consistent with the filter cleaning. Back to every few weeks could really make an impact.

On another note, it seems the Panda Garra may eat BBA? Still trying to figure it out, but the rocks seem to be clearing up. The BBA grows, then if I use some Met 14 in the tank it does back from the rocks, becoming a bit red. I know that is common, but cool to see a few pumps work like that. So long as its not on the plants, I am okay with the rocks! Looks kinda nice for now.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> One of my LFS has a few plants I want to try- ludwigia Cuba, and limnophila hippuroides. My concern is they are emerged stems, and transiting them to submetged... ludwigia had been a solid genus in my tank, so maybe not as worried.about that vs. Thr limnophila (which I recently just lost my aromatica mini).


I would try and find the Cuba already submerged.
Aromatica usually transitions well.


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> I would try and find the Cuba already submerged.
> 
> Aromatica usually transitions well.


Good to know. I had some small shoots of Cuba from @Greggz last year, but they did not survive. For like $3 maybe worth a shot? I the pogo erectus (as we talked about earlier this year) did not transition on me either...

Just figured it is time to try a few new things!


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## Maryland Guppy

P.erectus likes a lean water column yours seems a bit rich.

I tried to convert this to submerged twice.
Evenly distributed across all 3 tanks.
Some lived longer than others but all in all a flop.

Found 5 submerged stems @ a local meeting years back.
Still growing it but the algae bomb dropped my stock of 60 stems to about 15.


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## Grobbins48

My last CO2 exchange was on May 22nd. That tanks had lasted 83 days. I noticed the pH dropping FAST, and (thankfully again for the pH controller) realized that I was sub 500PSI on the CO2 tanks. The exchange is in today, and that bring this tank to lasting 160 days!

This is the longest ever between exchanges. Maybe a combination of the pH controller, lower light levels (using less CO2?), and only having 1 skimmer vs. 2 running?

No matter why, I'll take the 160 days!


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## Grobbins48

Uprooted nearly everything today to clean things up. Gave the opportunity for a deep gravel vac and to rethink some arrangement of the plants. Never a final setup, but working with the wood again is fun. Biggest move was the java fern to on top of the other wood.

Limnophila hippuroides is new to the tank, and as @Maryland Guppy mentioned, seems to be transiting well. I did add ludwigia cuba as well, and I can totally see why this is a tough one to transition. For fun I'll give it at least a few weeks, but talk about a substantially different structure between immersed and submerged growth!

Also added is an Amazon sword compact. Though it should be an interesting transition, first time keeping a sword. 

Hope all are doing well!


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## Immortal1

Tank is looking great @Grobbins48!


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## chayos00

I have to laugh about swords being compact. I've done a few and what should be a small plant always grows to the surface in my tank. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Greggz

Very nice!

Always good to get in there and really trim and clean things once in a while. Always seems to bring out better new growth. 

I like the new look. Has a good vibe. 

Tanks are always in transition, and yours has had a lot of different looks over time. Looks like the Bows like it as they are all out and active.


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Tank is looking great @Grobbins48!


Thank you! 



Greggz said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Always good to get in there and really trim and clean things once in a while. Always seems to bring out better new growth.
> 
> I like the new look. Has a good vibe.
> 
> Tanks are always in transition, and yours has had a lot of different looks over time. Looks like the Bows like it as they are all out and active.


Thanks Gregg. Felt good to get after it today, and yes, the bows have always been really active and doing well. 



chayos00 said:


> I have to laugh about swords being compact. I've done a few and what should be a small plant always grows to the surface in my tank.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I'll be curious to see how this grows being my first sword. I have no doubt it will grow massive. If that is the case I am sure I'll be able to give it to someone who will enjoy it!


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## burr740

Looking great man, really nice pics.


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## Quagulator

Looks real good. I'm always a sucker for swords, don't know why. I had a "compact" flame sword that stayed small ish low tech, put it in high tech and it out grew the tank in 2 months lol. Hopefully you can manage yours.


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## Grobbins48

Thanks to @Greggz I now have some Hygrophila Corymbosa Compact and Barclaya bulbs in the tank. Very curious to see how they do over the coming weeks. 

Did the normal maintenance, and decided to pull out the larger piece of wood to make some more room. The smaller piece still helps with some lines between species. 

I also decided to add back the 2nd beamswork light on a limited timer of two hours per day to start. We will see how things do over the next week or two.

The dosing is remaining the same from March still.

Pogo K is rocking!



Overall pretty happy with things.

I am on the lookout for a Fluval 407 in the coming weeks. The large SunSun is just so loud a is really getting annoying, as I sit next to it in my office all day! Trying to see if I can get it better than $199.

And a few pictures to enjoy.


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## celticfrog42

Beautiful tank!!!. You have aspiration-inspiring plants. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

Ludwigia Cuba has been making a transition the past few weeks. I have been trying to grab pictures every few days.

Day 1:










Here is early on:










Here is a few days ago:










Here is today during water change:










Pretty cool to watch a plant with this drastic of a transition from emerged.

On another note, I also replaced my SunSun 304B with a Fluval 407. So much quieter... so far pretty pleased! I did end up using the intake and spray bar from a SunSun setup- those parts are great IMO.


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## Grobbins48

Sending a few e mails and I just thought the tank was looking real good tonight, so I figured I would share. Sometimes things just seem right.


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## Ken Keating1

The tank is looking good!


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## burr740

Sweet nighttime pic. Tank is looking great!


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## Desert Pupfish

Maybe it's just my computer, but some of your pics are pixellated, and the others just fine. Odd....


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## Grobbins48

Desert Pupfish said:


> Maybe it's just my computer, but some of your pics are pixellated, and the others just fine. Odd....


Two pictures from post 557? I am seeing the same, not sure what happened. Thanks for letting me know, I'll pull those ones out.


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## Grobbins48

The ludwigia Cuba has made a good transition. Snapped another picture today before a water change. 

The bump in the lighting (2hrs at 150, 8 at 80ish) has led to some GDA and GSA on the glass, but nothing else bad so far. I'll keep rocking with just the 2 hrs burst for now.

As my journey in this hobby continues, I find myself wanting more out of my lighting overall. I feel the beamsworks were solid to get me started and are a good light to use to lean, however I think there is much left to be desired from a color perspective.

I keep coming back to the sun blaster nano- but do I want to change things up more than that? I suppose I could start with the sunblaster and a flora bulb paired with one of the beamsworks (probably the 6500K one) and see where that gets me.

My other though is a better quality LED with higher CRI and control, or dive I to T5HO 2 or 4 bulb unit. 

Quite undecided- as I want to future proof for a 75 or 120 gallon even.

Would love any input or perspective on different fixtures (but not ones that run me grad...)

All of the cuba stems have transitioned, only some of the emerged leaves/stems left.









Pogo K, of course!










You can see the algae in this picture below:


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> or dive I to T5HO 2 or 4 bulb unit.


T5HO! Come on in, the waters fine! 

And that Cuba will get some beautiful red highlights, but it needs a good amount of light to do so. It's a bit of a wild animal, in that it tends to twist and turn a lot. Takes some management to keep it tamed. And a very fast grower and propagator once it's gets going.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Greggz said:


> T5HO! Come on in, the waters fine!



G48, watch out for the T5HO folks, before you know it they’ll be trying to talk you into a larger tank!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> T5HO! Come on in, the waters fine!
> 
> And that Cuba will get some beautiful red highlights, but it needs a good amount of light to do so. It's a bit of a wild animal, in that it tends to twist and turn a lot. Takes some management to keep it tamed. And a very fast grower and propagator once it's gets going.


So with the T5- have you ever done measurements of PAR on single bulbs? Not sure how many I would want... I though you may have done this in the past, but cannot remember for certain. I know different bulbs will give different PAR, and I though it ranges from like 30 to 50ish depending on the bulb? 

And good to know about the Cuba. It is already branching a ton!


Ken Keating1 said:


> G48, watch out for the T5HO folks, before you know it they’ll be trying to talk you into a larger tank!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know... it is a scary thought! I have been resisting for quite some time. Didn't bite on your enabling of purchasing new bows yet, but I am sure I will in time!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> So with the T5- have you ever done measurements of PAR on single bulbs? Not sure how many I would want... I though you may have done this in the past, but cannot remember for certain. I know different bulbs will give different PAR, and I though it ranges from like 30 to 50ish depending on the bulb?


The measurements I took were about 2" below the water surface and 10" from the light. The purpose was to show how bulbs can have a wide variance of PAR. If you recall, Giesemann's were beasts, as expected. 

But if you decide to go this route, you are welcome to use the PAR meter. On a 55, which is only about 12" wide, two bulbs may be enough. Of course, three or four will provide a lot more punch and color options, but that depends on your goals.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> The measurements I took were about 2" below the water surface and 10" from the light. The purpose was to show how bulbs can have a wide variance of PAR. If you recall, Giesemann's were beasts, as expected.
> 
> 
> 
> But if you decide to go this route, you are welcome to use the PAR meter. On a 55, which is only about 12" wide, two bulbs may be enough. Of course, three or four will provide a lot more punch and color options, but that depends on your goals.


Yes, I recall now. Thank you, and I may take you up on the offer!

I was thinking to maybe start with two sunblaster nanos, and using two Giesmann's; one being the super flora and the other one the 6500K Tropic.

I can always add a 3rd is my thinking. They seem to be a quite fixture vs. some of the multi bulb fixtures on the bay and amazon.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Yes, I recall now. Thank you, and I may take you up on the offer!
> 
> I was thinking to maybe start with two sunblaster nanos, and using two Giesmann's; one being the super flora and the other one the 6500K Tropic.
> 
> I can always add a 3rd is my thinking. They seem to be a quite fixture vs. some of the multi bulb fixtures on the bay and amazon.


The Sunblaster Nano's might be a very good option for you.

Like you said, you could go with three, and control each one individually. You could roll them on/off with a midday burst if you wanted to.


----------



## Grobbins48

@Greggz @burr740 where are you guys getting your bulbs these days? Seems like most places are carrying only a few bulbs for planted tanks each.

Thanks!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> @Greggz @burr740 where are you guys getting your bulbs these days? Seems like most places are carrying only a few bulbs for planted tanks each.
> 
> Thanks!


Giesseman at Bulkreefsupply.com.

Powerveg find the local retailer from the Hortilux site and they will order them for you...pick up locally.

Bigalspets.com carries both Giesemann and Zoo Med.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Giesseman at Bulkreefsupply.com.
> 
> Powerveg find the local retailer from the Hortilux site and they will order them for you...pick up locally.
> 
> Bigalspets.com carries both Giesemann and Zoo Med.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Yes very helpful. Thank you.


----------



## Grobbins48

So I am trying to be certain I understand the Seneye PAR, but specifically, spectrum readings. If I look at this graph below, am I correct by assuming that:

1) The color on spectrum with the peaks in Blue and Red represent the PUR for plants
2) The black line over lay on the graph represents what spectrum the Seneye is currently registering
3) PUR ~ 58% means that my current reading is covering 58% of the usable spectrum for plants
4) I have NO idea how to read the chart on the right!

So really, ideally for plant growth and overall better color I would want the black curve to include more of the blue and red parts of the spectrum?

Trying to kick things up a notch for my understanding!


----------



## Greggz

It might help to look at two different colored bulbs.

The top one is a Powerveg 660, a very, very red bulb. The bottom one is an ATI Purple Plus.


----------



## Grobbins48

Yes, that is helpful for sure.

I have ordered one of the sun blaster nano fixtures. I figured I could see how things look with that fixture paired with a beamswork. Can always order more if I want to fine tune things some more. 

I'll give it a try with the bulb it comes with initially, but want to try a few other bulbs over time.


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> I have ordered one of the sun blaster nano fixtures. I figured I could see how things look with that fixture paired with a beamswork. Can always order more if I want to fine tune things some more.
> 
> I'll give it a try with the bulb it comes with initially, but want to try a few other bulbs over time.


Keep us updated on them with your experiences. I'm leaning the way of the Sunblaster's eventually, just for ease of DIY and hiding them in a nice canopy. 
@MCFC had a bunch running, but is MIA.... No updates in a long time.


----------



## Greggz

Quagulator said:


> @MCFC had a bunch running, but is MIA.... No updates in a long time.


Funny you mention this. I was going through my subscriptions, and there are a quite a few that are no longer posting, with @MCFC being one of them. 

Might have to send out a siren call to see if any respond with an update.


----------



## Quagulator

Hey @MCFC are your mentions on email notifications?? lol

Tag, mention, quote, like etc. until they start responding


----------



## Grobbins48

It would be good to hear back from some of the usual suspects! Summer break is over people, time to get your hands wet again!!!!


----------



## chayos00

When people go MIA on the board, got to wonder if it's just bailing on the internet, forgetting about things, or if something else happened to them in real life. For example the guy I got my DIY LED PCB's from passed away....


----------



## Grobbins48

Well I do hope everyone is doing well.

Got the tank ready for hosting Thanksgiving tomorrow! It is always a conversation starter with family and friends!


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> It is always a conversation starter with family and friends!


"You're telling me everything in here is alive and growing?!?!"

"Why do you have all those tanks and wires hooked up to it?!"

and my all time favourite....

"What does all this cost?"


----------



## Greggz

Quagulator said:


> and my all time favourite....


My all time favorite is......................

"That's saltwater.......right?".

Happens almost every single time.


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> "You're telling me everything in here is alive and growing?!?!"






Greggz said:


> My all time favorite is......................
> 
> "That's saltwater.......right?".
> 
> Happens almost every single time.


I get these two every time, plus"

"How much work does it take to keep it looking nice?"

And after I give my answer....

"Oh, no way... you mean you have to change the water!?"


----------



## Grobbins48

The Sunblaster arrived today, and one critical thing I forgot about was the mounting of it.

Time for a DIY build as a temporary solution. 

I must say though, that the color, even with the standard 6500K provided, is much more vivid than my beamswork fixtures. I may grab a couple more of this. And need to build a hood...


----------



## Grobbins48

Quick look at some changes coming soon....


----------



## Ken Keating1

And the new tank size is??? Don't keep us guessing!!!


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> And the new tank size is??? Don't keep us guessing!!!


I know... I did a good job at hiding the size! 

Hint: not too large, but much better for scaping. I suppose I need to bring my skillset to the next level!


----------



## Grobbins48

So the 75 project will be quite the undertaking. I have plenty of decisions to make, such as...

What type of scape, including wood/ rock, etc.?

Exactly what to do with lighting?

Should I get an inline heater?

Black or frosted background?

Timing and transitioning from the 55?

Reuse the BDBS from the 55, supplemented with some new?

I am sure there are other things to think of as well. I would also like to make a canopy for this tank. The design is pending on the lighting and how much, if any at all, cooling I'll need. I figured either way there will be open space in the back for ventilation. 

One thought for lighting is to use one Beamswork fixture with two T5HO fixtures. This should give good PAR, but also give some flexibility with coloration. The Beamswork would likely be the 6500K DHL, as it would fit in a canopy (DA FSPEC is a bit longer). 

I am excited for where this build will take me, but it is bitter sweet. I'll miss the unique scape of the 55 and will need to challenge myself to do something new with the 75.


----------



## Greggz

You are going to love the extra space. 

I would go with 4 x T5HO (surprise!!:wink2.

Loads of possibilities. Very much looking forward to seeing where this goes.

I'm guessing Ken K is out shopping today!!!!!:grin2:


----------



## Ken Keating1

Great purchase, I'm sure your going to love the 75G. First thing I would do is change your tank journal title to *Grobbins 55 Soon to Be 75 Gallon Rainbowfish Tank*!

It's going to be fun to follow along with your Journal to see the progress. Take your time and enjoy the process of setting up a new tank. Perfect timing with Christmas happening in a little over three weeks. In my household Santa has been know to leave aquarium presents under the tree and none of the other family members seems to recall purchasing that item. Strange how that works out!

@Greggz: Funny, yesterday I spent twenty minutes eyeing the same tank at Petsmart. It would of been quite the coincidence if G48 and I purchased the size tank on the same day, but darn that G48, he had more guts and pulled the trigger first!


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> @Greggz: Funny, yesterday I spent twenty minutes eyeing the same tank at Petsmart. It would of been quite the coincidence if G48 and I purchased the size tank on the same day, but darn that G48, he had more guts and pulled the trigger first!


Still have time to grab it today for $299!


----------



## Immortal1

75g is such a nice tank size - not so deep that you can't reach the bottom and a nice 18" depth for more layout options. As for lighting, Radions for the win (lol)
As for a scape - probably more options than I have room to type - looking forward to your decisions. 
Now, to figure out how to twist Kens arm a little more from the East side of Iowa...


----------



## Freemananana

I loved my 75g! Great tank size. You'll be very happy with the move from the 55g! It is a complete toss up for everything, I know island scapes are popular with the additional depth. Just throwing it out there, but cheap lighting options tend to work best for me. I had $9 shop lights with spiral CFLs on my 75g, super awesome growth.


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> 75g is such a nice tank size - not so deep that you can't reach the bottom and a nice 18" depth for more layout options. As for lighting, Radions for the win (lol)
> As for a scape - probably more options than I have room to type - looking forward to your decisions.
> Now, to figure out how to twist Kens arm a little more from the East side of Iowa...


You know, the Raidons or AI Prime freshwater versions seems to be the LEDs I would use based on their spectrum. That said, 2 Raidons or 3 AI Prime run around d 6 to $800 right now. Perhaps in the future!

That said, I have some more T5HO fixtures on the way. Looking like I'll be T5HO with just some LED viewing lights (Philliips HUE RGBW for those who have been following along for a while!) inside the hood I will be building.


Freemananana said:


> I loved my 75g! Great tank size. You'll be very happy with the move from the 55g! It is a complete toss up for everything, I know island scapes are popular with the additional depth. Just throwing it out there, but cheap lighting options tend to work best for me. I had $9 shop lights with spiral CFLs on my 75g, super awesome growth.


For scape, I know I want to use BDBS, but have been thinking of a hardscape that is island-based. That has always been an aspiration of mine, but will need to think through how the black sand will work/contrast with it. Not 100% there on island, but it's high on the list.
@Greggz I know you at one point had fans inside your hood (been going way back in your journal on the lighting build). If running 4 x T5HO would there be enough heat that I would want a computer fan to exhaust out the side/back?

Also, still like your hydor inline heater? I was thinking of grabbing one, and as @Ken Keating1 suggested, having it appear under the tree in a few weeks!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> @Greggz I know you at one point had fans inside your hood (been going way back in your journal on the lighting build). If running 4 x T5HO would there be enough heat that I would want a computer fan to exhaust out the side/back?
> 
> Also, still like your hydor inline heater? I was thinking of grabbing one, and as @Ken Keating1 suggested, having it appear under the tree in a few weeks!


Yes I use fans hooked up to an Inkbird controller for cooling. But they are not exhausting out side/back. They are blowing over the surface which cools the water. Only come on when temp hits 80*. 

Now that being said, constant exhaust venting might work? I have never tried it. 

In any event, who knows if heat will even be an issue for you. I wouldn't address it at all until you were set up and running and see what temps you are getting. 

And highly recommend the Hydor in line. Very reliable and being out of the tank is a huge plus. Mine does not run all that often, especially in the summer, as I keep it at 76*.


----------



## Freemananana

Grobbins48 said:


> For scape, I know I want to use BDBS, but have been thinking of a hardscape that is island-based. That has always been an aspiration of mine, but will need to think through how the black sand will work/contrast with it. Not 100% there on island, but it's high on the list.
> @Greggz I know you at one point had fans inside your hood (been going way back in your journal on the lighting build). If running 4 x T5HO would there be enough heat that I would want a computer fan to exhaust out the side/back?
> 
> Also, still like your hydor inline heater? I was thinking of grabbing one, and as @Ken Keating1 suggested, having it appear under the tree in a few weeks!


I have used BDBS on all but one of my tanks and highly recommend it! I think rock barriers between the BDBS and pool filter sand are pretty popular as well. I have installed computer fans in my new hood that I am making as well, it isn't particularly hard BUT free handing circles turns out kinda of rough. I would suggest a hole saw.


----------



## Grobbins48

Starting to get the new canopy going. It will be painted black to match everything else, so I decided to stick with dimensional pine boards. There will be a piano hinge in the middle to open it up, and I'll make two doors for feeding, etc.

Got the basics put together tonight, and so far so good.

Also have a total of five, yes 5, sunblaster nanotech on the way, along with a small assortment of bulbs.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Looks good, but I'd recommend verifying the length of the Sunblasters with the cord coming out of the end. Using plywood pieces to support the canopy onto the tank frame decreases the open length distance. On my canopy I had to remove the supporting wood pieces and replace with inverted 1/2" x 1/2" x 2" long aluminum angle iron pieces to be able to fit LED fixtures. You may be fine, but better to find out now if there's a problem rather than later on.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Looks good, but I'd recommend verifying the length of the Sunblasters with the cord coming out of the end. Using plywood pieces to support the canopy onto the tank frame decreases the open length distance. On my canopy I had to remove the supporting wood pieces and replace with inverted 1/2" x 1/2" x 2" long aluminum angle iron pieces to be able to fit LED fixtures. You may be fine, but better to find out now if there's a problem rather than later on.


Thanks Ken, very good point. The daisy chain is what makes the fit a bit tight. Those plugs have the stiff coupling on them, however it does just 'fit'. In an ideal world the lights would be hard wire daisy chained, however I think I can make this work for simplicity. 

The ends of the hood sit outside of the tank covering the trim, so I get a full run of the inside of the tank. I could have made the hood an inch longer (ID is currently just under 50 inches) to accommodate, with some sort of trim to avoid spillover light, though I think this will work well.

Appreciate the input, because that would have been a huge miss!


----------



## Greggz

Canopy looking great!

Love the use of the Kreg's pocket hole jig.

What are you going to do for doors on the openings??


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Canopy looking great!
> 
> 
> 
> Love the use of the Kreg's pocket hole jig.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you going to do for doors on the openings??


Thanks Gregg.

For the doors, I am going to attempt to make them. I have the router bit to make all the cuts, so we will see how they come out!

Here is what I'll be using. I'll take any advice you have to give!

Craftsman 2 pc. Ogee Stile & Rail Router Bit


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks Gregg.
> 
> For the doors, I am going to attempt to make them. I have the router bit to make all the cuts, so we will see how they come out!
> 
> Here is what I'll be using. I'll take any advice you have to give!
> 
> Craftsman 2 pc. Ogee Stile & Rail Router Bit


When I built mine, I ended up ordering the doors. But I wanted raised panel doors, which would have been a lot of work to make. In your case, you probably want to match the lower cabinet.

You use the doors a lot more than you might think. Daily feedings, picking out any floating leaves, etc. So I went with lift up hinges. Makes them work as a "flipper" door. Lift up, and the door stays in place lifted up. 

https://www.hardwaresource.com/lift-up-hinge-for-overhead-compartments.html


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> When I built mine, I ended up ordering the doors. But I wanted raised panel doors, which would have been a lot of work to make. In your case, you probably want to match the lower cabinet.
> 
> 
> 
> You use the doors a lot more than you might think. Daily feedings, picking out any floating leaves, etc. So I went with lift up hinges. Makes them work as a "flipper" door. Lift up, and the door stays in place lifted up.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hardwaresource.com/lift-up-hinge-for-overhead-compartments.html


Perfect, exactly what I was looking for with hinges. 

I may actually just router doors with a round end to match the bottom. That is a good idea and quite simple, single piece construction. I'll need to see if I have enough scrap!


----------



## ChrisX

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks Gregg.
> 
> For the doors, I am going to attempt to make them. I have the router bit to make all the cuts, so we will see how they come out!
> 
> Here is what I'll be using. I'll take any advice you have to give!
> 
> Craftsman 2 pc. Ogee Stile & Rail Router Bit


Make sure that you design them so there is no light leakage. If you are viewing the tank at night, you probably don't want that.

You might be able to do inset doors that swing out and have an inner "bib" to block the light.


----------



## Gillionaire

Greggz said:


> When I built mine, I ended up ordering the doors. But I wanted raised panel doors, which would have been a lot of work to make. In your case, you probably want to match the lower cabinet.
> 
> You use the doors a lot more than you might think. Daily feedings, picking out any floating leaves, etc. So I went with lift up hinges. Makes them work as a "flipper" door. Lift up, and the door stays in place lifted up.
> 
> https://www.hardwaresource.com/lift-up-hinge-for-overhead-compartments.html


Do you have a picture you can share of the hinges on your "flipper" doors? My open up but don't stay open (PITA).

Bump:


Gillionaire said:


> Do you have a picture you can share of the hinges on your "flipper" doors? My open up but don't stay open (PITA).


NVM you provided a link! Doh!


----------



## Grobbins48

ChrisX said:


> Make sure that you design them so there is no light leakage. If you are viewing the tank at night, you probably don't want that.
> 
> You might be able to do inset doors that swing out and have an inner "bib" to block the light.


Good thought- I'll need to think this one through on how to prevent light leaking out.


----------



## joemomma

Another note on the canopy - I had to do some last-minute "engineering" on mine, as the wire feet for the light fixture (Nicrew LED+) sat on the edge of tank rim. I had to router out the frame of the canopy to allow it to sit flush on the tank rim. You may run into the same issue, depending on how your lights sit on the tank.


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> So the 75 project will be quite the undertaking. I have plenty of decisions to make, such as...
> 
> What type of scape, including wood/ rock, etc.?
> 
> Exactly what to do with lighting?
> 
> Should I get an inline heater?
> 
> Black or frosted background?
> 
> Timing and transitioning from the 55?
> 
> Reuse the BDBS from the 55, supplemented with some new?
> 
> I am sure there are other things to think of as well. I would also like to make a canopy for this tank. The design is pending on the lighting and how much, if any at all, cooling I'll need. I figured either way there will be open space in the back for ventilation.
> 
> One thought for lighting is to use one Beamswork fixture with two T5HO fixtures. This should give good PAR, but also give some flexibility with coloration. The Beamswork would likely be the 6500K DHL, as it would fit in a canopy (DA FSPEC is a bit longer).
> 
> I am excited for where this build will take me, but it is bitter sweet. I'll miss the unique scape of the 55 and will need to challenge myself to do something new with the 75.


 Congrats on the new tank. 
Its pretty...


----------



## Grobbins48

Some more work on the canopy this evening. Did some sanding and added top trim. Really enjoying the wood work, it's been a while. Only downside is that its 30° outside, and not much warmer in the garage! Bringing the canopy in each night so the glue can cure properly. 

I want to add some trim to the side as there is a slight, 1/8 gap between the front face and side. I need to look around and see what would work. I need like a 1/4 or 1/2 inch by 1.5 to 2 inch piece of wood. Then I could mount it to the left and right side, overlapping the gap. I didn't properly account for the size of the piano hinge, so that is why the gap is there.

Not sure I want to add any trim to the bottom... torn right now. I like the crisp, clean look it has the way it is below. Simple.

If I mirror the top trim to the bottom I'll need to raise the whole canopy by 1/2 inch from the rim. I could just add some spacers, not a huge deal, but still unsure. The way it sits now the bottom of the canopy completely covers the rim, and I don't want to lose any more viewing space.


----------



## Immortal1

Do you have a table saw in addition to the compound miter saw? Thinking 1/4" x 1" strips cut from some scrap wood could be used as corner trim.


----------



## Ken Keating1

*Grobbins 55 Soon to Be 75 Gallon Rainbowfish Tank*

Great change to the tank journal header!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Do you have a table saw in addition to the compound miter saw? Thinking 1/4" x 1" strips cut from some scrap wood could be used as corner trim.


Good idea. I have access to one, so I'll think this through.


Ken Keating1 said:


> Great change to the tank journal header!


I had some pretty good inspiration!


----------



## Immortal1

Basically what I was thinking. Should be pretty easy on a table saw. And if you have enough extra, you could add the exact same trim to the base cabinet to make them match.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> I want to add some trim to the side as there is a slight, 1/8 gap between the front face and side. I need to look around and see what would work. I need like a 1/4 or 1/2 inch by 1.5 to 2 inch piece of wood. Then I could mount it to the left and right side, overlapping the gap. I didn't properly account for the size of the piano hinge, so that is why the gap is there.


You might want to shim the front panel so that it has a uniform gap to the other panel. If you trim it as is, it may not look right as it won't be perfectly vertical, and I don't think the trim will hide it. From the side it still won't look square. A thin felt strip might even do the trick.

And no need to create a trim piece, there are plenty that are available that would work just fine.

As to further trim, all goes to personal taste. If you do trim the front gap, I would trim the back too. IMO would look more uniform and finished.

Here's mine (Before the doors were added).


----------



## KayakJimW

Greggz said:


> ...A thin felt strip might even do the trick.


Genius! Block the light and silence the "tap" when it closes


----------



## Grobbins48

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Adding a small felt pad was perfect for the gap. I was going to do this at the end after paint anyways, but good to know it solved the problem. 



















With that, I decided on a trim style to create an overlap on the front. Keeps the front simple, and adds slight style to the sides. Functional style that is!

I'll let things marinate for a couple days before moving over to primer. In that time I'll focus on the new scape. Part of me wants to do a peninsula style, with a strong hardscape and heavy planting on the right, to a bit of open space on the left. 

Biggest drawback I see to that setup is my current planting style! A new challenge would be fun though!

As always, what I say is subject to change! But the planning in quite enjoyable.


----------



## Immortal1

Ah, I have a better idea of how your hood is set up. I like the minor change with the round pad.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Looking good G48, the canopy build is looking great!


----------



## Grobbins48

So another thread got me thinking a bit, and I thought I would reflect here.

Most of us on this forum are NOT the average aquarium hobbyist. Even in the 'planted aquarium' world, many of us are a subset who are deeply involved in their tanks on a weekly, and even daily basis. That being said, other who are not in as 'deep' as some of us may find certain aspect of what we do as 'strange' or 'unnecessary' or in the case of a post I made on a local Facebook group last night, I 'must be doing something wrong'.

That almost struck a nerve with me, but then I remembered I am not the average planted tank hobbyist. I am in deep, and enjoy many aspects of the hobby; the plants, the fish, the hardscape, the experience based learning, etc.

What I did was post this picture of a water change, with the comment "Don't forget about those water changes!" The post was intended just to be fun, as that is what this local group is for. Someone asked how much and how often I do water changes. My comment of 70% weekly broke the internet for a couple people. I'll let that post go silent at this point!

I suppose overall, this is a fantastic community to be part of for people like me, who get deep into what they do. For every aspect of my life, if I am going to do something I really dive in a learn about it, going beyond what would be considered by most as 'average'.


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> So another thread got me thinking a bit, and I thought I would reflect here.
> 
> Most of us on this forum are NOT the average aquarium hobbyist. Even in the 'planted aquarium' world, many of us are a subset who are deeply involved in their tanks on a weekly, and even daily basis. That being said, other who are not in as 'deep' as some of us may find certain aspect of what we do as 'strange' or 'unnecessary' or in the case of a post I made on a local Facebook group last night, I 'must be doing something wrong'.
> 
> That almost struck a nerve with me, but then I remembered I am not the average planted tank hobbyist. I am in deep, and enjoy many aspects of the hobby; the plants, the fish, the hardscape, the experience based learning, etc.
> 
> What I did was post this picture of a water change, with the comment "Don't forget about those water changes!" The post was intended just to be fun, as that is what this local group is for. Someone asked how much and how often I do water changes. My comment of 70% weekly broke the internet for a couple people. I'll let that post go silent at this point!
> 
> I suppose overall, this is a fantastic community to be part of for people like me, who get deep into what they do. For every aspect of my life, if I am going to do something I really dive in a learn about it, going beyond what would be considered by most as 'average'.


 I can always tell those hobbyist's who will be in and out of the hobby within a very short time.
Their first question/concern is "How often do I have to change water"?
They are busy people and/or the "idea" of an aquarium with plants/fish is a lot more appealing than the actual day to day processes involved in keeping one. 

Much like the pets taken to shelters when they no longer look like cute little puppies or kittens-- the aquarium ( with the eventual algae, sick fish, cloudy/green water) quickly loses its "luster" for some and ends up on Craigslist.


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> I suppose overall, this is a fantastic community to be part of for people like me, who get deep into what they do. For every aspect of my life, if I am going to do something I really dive in a learn about it, going beyond what would be considered by most as 'average'.


Especially on non-planted aquarium forums. I've made posts about root tabs, pH drop's, inert substrates etc. the list goes on.... and got absolutely piled on, even by experienced members of those forums with 1000's upon 1000's of posts... 

But, like you and many others here, my views are completely different than the average hobbyist. Not saying I'm better or worse than any other hobbyist, know more or know less, I'm just more active at updates / following others in the same camp and dig deeper than the average aquarist. 

Makes me really want to join up with the local aquaria society and share some knowledge... Judging by the local auctions, there is only 1 or 2 of us that are truly into the plants / planted tank game. Tons of swords / java ferns / anubias but that's about it.


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Especially on non-planted aquarium forums. I've made posts about root tabs, pH drop's, inert substrates etc. the list goes on.... and got absolutely piled on, even by experienced members of those forums with 1000's upon 1000's of posts...
> 
> But, like you and many others here, my views are completely different than the average hobbyist. Not saying I'm better or worse than any other hobbyist, know more or know less, I'm just more active at updates / following others in the same camp and dig deeper than the average aquarist.
> 
> Makes me really want to join up with the local aquaria society and share some knowledge... Judging by the local auctions, there is only 1 or 2 of us that are truly into the plants / planted tank game. Tons of swords / java ferns / anubias but that's about it.


Yes, exactly. I absolutely am no better or worse than any other hobbyist, just do something different than most others in this area do. In my area there are a lot of people breeding discus, plecos, shrimp, flowerhorns, and other stuff (no rainbows that I know of so far!), but only a couple of us who are deep into planted aquariums, and even fewer running the high tech style setup.

Our local aquarium club, if you can call it that, has disintegrated into solely this Facebook page I mentioned. There is no leadership or funding for local events, which I completely understand, as I would not have the time to dedicate to running a club at this point in my life. With that, the 'debates' and 'education' really are just Facebook posts which lead to no real discussion or learning.


----------



## Discusluv

Quagulator said:


> Makes me really want to join up with the local aquaria society and share some knowledge... Judging by the local auctions, there is only 1 or 2 of us that are truly into the plants / planted tank game. Tons of swords / java ferns / anubias but that's about it.





This is true of most aquarium societies. The knowledge base is on fish, but they are very interested in making their tanks more appealing with the addition of plants. Your experience/knowledge and variety of plants offered at auctions would be very appreciated by them.

Bump:


Grobbins48 said:


> Y
> Our local aquarium club, if you can call it that, has disintegrated into solely this Facebook page I mentioned. There is no leadership or funding for local events, which I completely understand, as I would not have the time to dedicate to running a club at this point in my life. With that, the 'debates' and 'education' really are just Facebook posts which lead to no real discussion or learning.


 Thats a shame :frown2:We have a very vibrant, active aquarium society in Sacramento, Ca.


----------



## Quagulator

Discusluv said:


> This is true of most aquarium societies. The knowledge base is on fish, but they are very interested in making their tanks more appealing with the addition of plants. Your experience/knowledge and variety of plants offered at auctions would be very appreciated by them.


Thanks for the kind words. My local society is very active too, they have bi-annual auctions (usually last 8 hours or so), and monthly meetings with live jar shows and mini auctions, bus trips to bigger city local fish stores etc. My old man was a member in his early 20's... I wonder if some of the old timers there recognize the last name... I doubt it, makes a cool story if anything.

Mostly live bearer breeding, cichlid breeding and old school equipment, oh and those pesky swords / crypts / java ferns etc. Shrimp are coming more popular but... too many skittles tanks for my to trust the linage of the shrimp breeding that's happening. 

They could use some plant variety / modern or newer techniques for growing more demanding plants and the required info to do so. Heck I bring extremely rare in Canada plants to the auction that sell for $5 (which I'm fine with, I don't do it for the money, I do it so another hobbyist can enjoy them instead of me dumping them on my front lawn) and yet a mitt full of java moss loaded to the nines with algae goes for $10 LOL

My biggest hurdle would be overcoming the age gap / gain trust in the lifers that have been there for 50-60 years. But, anything is possible, I'll likely give it a shot and sign up for a membership one of these days and see how things play out. Should be an interesting experience to share and hopefully give someone else the motivation to sign themselves up as well.


----------



## Discusluv

Quagulator said:


> Thanks for the kind words. My local society is very active too, they have bi-annual auctions (usually last 8 hours or so), and monthly meetings with live jar shows and mini auctions, bus trips to bigger city local fish stores etc. My old man was a member in his early 20's... I wonder if some of the old timers there recognize the last name... I doubt it, makes a cool story if anything.
> 
> Mostly live bearer breeding, cichlid breeding and old school equipment, oh and those pesky swords / crypts / java ferns etc. Shrimp are coming more popular but... too many skittles tanks for my to trust the linage of the shrimp breeding that's happening.
> 
> They could use some plant variety / modern or newer techniques for growing more demanding plants and the required info to do so. Heck I bring extremely rare in Canada plants to the auction that sell for $5 (which I'm fine with, I don't do it for the money, I do it so another hobbyist can enjoy them instead of me dumping them on my front lawn) and yet a mitt full of java moss loaded to the nines with algae goes for $10 LOL
> 
> My biggest hurdle would be overcoming the age gap / gain trust in the lifers that have been there for 50-60 years. But, anything is possible, I'll likely give it a shot and sign up for a membership one of these days and see how things play out. Should be an interesting experience to share and hopefully give someone else the motivation to sign themselves up as well.


 They were wary of me-- the first meeting I came very overdressed: slacks, low-sensible heel, jewelry, makeup. Its just me- Im a 50 ( um, okay, 51) year old woman that likes to dress up when I leave the house. But, they were in jeans/sweatpants -the same aquarium society t-shirt. Lol! 

Actually, next meeting I wore a flat shoe and took of half my jewelry before walked out the door- thats the best I can do. Im me. :smile2:

There are mostly men hobbyists with women accompanying their husbands at the meetings where Im at. There are a few women who hold the primary interests in hobby- but vastly fewer. 



I lost a huge amount at the last auction on the fish I brought. From what I actually paid for them. Like you I donated to the society.
Its nice to have a place to talk about a hobby no one else in my life ( friends or family) find interesting. A place for camaraderie.


----------



## Gillionaire

Grobbins48 said:


> So another thread got me thinking a bit, and I thought I would reflect here.
> 
> Most of us on this forum are NOT the average aquarium hobbyist. Even in the 'planted aquarium' world, many of us are a subset who are deeply involved in their tanks on a weekly, and even daily basis. That being said, other who are not in as 'deep' as some of us may find certain aspect of what we do as 'strange' or 'unnecessary' or in the case of a post I made on a local Facebook group last night, I 'must be doing something wrong'.
> 
> That almost struck a nerve with me, but then I remembered I am not the average planted tank hobbyist. I am in deep, and enjoy many aspects of the hobby; the plants, the fish, the hardscape, the experience based learning, etc.
> 
> What I did was post this picture of a water change, with the comment "Don't forget about those water changes!" The post was intended just to be fun, as that is what this local group is for. Someone asked how much and how often I do water changes. My comment of 70% weekly broke the internet for a couple people. I'll let that post go silent at this point!
> 
> I suppose overall, this is a fantastic community to be part of for people like me, who get deep into what they do. For every aspect of my life, if I am going to do something I really dive in a learn about it, going beyond what would be considered by most as 'average'.


If it works for you that's all that matters!


----------



## Quagulator

Gillionaire said:


> If it works for you that's all that matters!


Them be fightin' words on a Facebook page >


----------



## Greggz

Great posts above.

I remember when I got started in the hobby. I would show my wife pictures of elaborate set ups and posts. At the time my point was these guys are nuts! Made me seem more normal.

Of course, now I AM one of those guys!:wink2:

And let's face it, to most hobbyists we are speaking in tongues.

That's why we hang out here........our craziness is not only accepted.... but celebrated!:grin2: 

Got a new gadget.......got a new plant.......got a new strategy......plants are peaking......in the real world no one cares, so we share it here. 

And 70% water change....heck, I was doing that before I went high tech. If there is one thing I have learned, it's that large regular water changes can cure a lot of ills, and fish absolutely love it.


----------



## Discusluv

70% water changes? Pfft! par for the course.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Grobbins48 said:


> So another thread got me thinking a bit, and I thought I would reflect here.
> 
> Most of us on this forum are NOT the average aquarium hobbyist. Even in the 'planted aquarium' world, many of us are a subset who are deeply involved in their tanks on a weekly, and even daily basis. That being said, other who are not in as 'deep' as some of us may find certain aspect of what we do as 'strange' or 'unnecessary' or in the case of a post I made on a local Facebook group last night, I 'must be doing something wrong'.
> 
> That almost struck a nerve with me, but then I remembered I am not the average planted tank hobbyist. I am in deep, and enjoy many aspects of the hobby; the plants, the fish, the hardscape, the experience based learning, etc.
> 
> What I did was post this picture of a water change, with the comment "Don't forget about those water changes!" The post was intended just to be fun, as that is what this local group is for. Someone asked how much and how often I do water changes. My comment of 70% weekly broke the internet for a couple people. I'll let that post go silent at this point!
> 
> I suppose overall, this is a fantastic community to be part of for people like me, who get deep into what they do. For every aspect of my life, if I am going to do something I really dive in a learn about it, going beyond what would be considered by most as 'average'.


Well thought out post G48. I'm involved with a couple different hobbies and forums, and the one thing I found is the folks that ask a lot of questions, are always willing to learn, and willing to make changes are the ones that have a better knowledge base of the hobby they're in and in the long run turn out to be very successful in that hobby. And yes, there are those folks that make crazy statements about what you shouldn't do, are very opinionated, but yet have never tried that technique so they really shouldn't be knocking something they're not truly knowledgeable about.

And by far TPT is the best forum community I'm involved with. TPT has a lot of great folks, very helpful, and they've really brought the hobby up to level that probably couldn't have been reached without their posts and insights. I can't imagine where my tank would be without this forum.


----------



## Streetwise

I just wish this forum did not have a photo upload limit. Member photos add value to this site.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Discusluv said:


> 70% water changes? Pfft! par for the course.





Greggz said:


> And 70% water change....heck, I was doing that before I went high tech.


I most likely change the least amount of water.
It is by choice and experimentation for sure.



Discusluv said:


> There are mostly men hobbyists with women accompanying their husbands at the meetings where Im at. There are a few women who hold the primary interests in hobby- but vastly fewer.


Near me there are many women involved in the hobby.
Every aquatic plant club meeting is @ least a 50/50 cut!


----------



## Discusluv

Streetwise said:


> I just wish this forum did not have a photo upload limit. Member photos add value to this site.


In posts there is a limit on photos?


----------



## Grobbins48

Streetwise said:


> I just wish this forum did not have a photo upload limit. Member photos add value to this site.





Discusluv said:


> In posts there is a limit on photos?


TPT site does limit pictures, however most use a 3rd party to host pictures.

I personally use Tapaalk when on my phone, or Imgur when on a computer. For Imgur just use the BB code to insert into your post. That way there is no limit on pictures!


----------



## Streetwise

I just haven't gone to the trouble of setting up photo hosting. Maybe I can do it with my iCloud photos. However, none of the other forums I have been on have had per-user photo upload file limits. As a result, I've deleted more photos than I have up.


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> I can always tell those hobbyist's who will be in and out of the hobby within a very short time.
> Their first question/concern is "How often do I have to change water"?
> They are busy people and/or the "idea" of an aquarium with plants/fish is a lot more appealing than the actual day to day processes involved in keeping one.
> 
> Much like the pets taken to shelters when they no longer look like cute little puppies or kittens-- the aquarium ( with the eventual algae, sick fish, cloudy/green water) quickly loses its "luster" for some and ends up on Craigslist.


You make an interesting point here- and sort of hit on in another thread as well. What brought me to planted tanks from african cichlid keeping (besides the annoying aggression all day) was seeing videos on YouTube from places like The Green Machine (so sad they are in liquidation...). Those videos were quite soothing, and I thought to myself, "wouldn't it be nice to have something like this in my home?". I initially though that my ability to care for such style tank was out of reach when I first started.

My journey began in a 29 gallong tanks with DIY CO2 (yuck...) and lots of mistakes (H2O2 soak on my anubias for 30 min? what could possibly go wrong...HA!). Now here I am building the 75 gallon with T5HO, CO2, etc. I have learn many lessons along the way, and have many more ahead of me, but still enjoy the hobby almost every day.

I suppose the allure of planted tanks is strong to the general public, as we see these beautiful pictures online that are truly works of art. Bringing it back to the other thread, as Dennis pointed out, we don't actually know how long those work of art tanks are up and running. Many of them for contests are scaped for the one perfect picture, then dismantled. That can give a sense of 'false hope' to some who wants that type of artwork in their home, much like Photoshop in advertising to remove 'imperfections' from someones skin. For me, it is about what is beautiful and sustainable (though I understand sustainable means different things to different people!). 

It is great that this hobby is getting a bit more attention (saw some video by Business Insider I think it was, that gave an overview of Aquascaping), but the line between temporary art and sustainable, stocked, planted aquariums can be fuzzy to the newcomer!


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> You make an interesting point here- and sort of hit on in another thread as well. What brought me to planted tanks from african cichlid keeping (besides the annoying aggression all day) was seeing videos on YouTube from places like The Green Machine (so sad they are in liquidation...). Those videos were quite soothing, and I thought to myself, "wouldn't it be nice to have something like this in my home?". I initially though that my ability to care for such style tank was out of reach when I first started.
> 
> My journey began in a 29 gallong tanks with DIY CO2 (yuck...) and lots of mistakes (H2O2 soak on my anubias for 30 min? what could possibly go wrong...HA!). Now here I am building the 75 gallon with T5HO, CO2, etc. I have learn many lessons along the way, and have many more ahead of me, but still enjoy the hobby almost every day.
> 
> I suppose the allure of planted tanks is strong to the general public, as we see these beautiful pictures online that are truly works of art. Bringing it back to the other thread, as Dennis pointed out, we don't actually know how long those work of art tanks are up and running. Many of them for contests are scaped for the one perfect picture, then dismantled. That can give a sense of 'false hope' to some who wants that type of artwork in their home, much like Photoshop in advertising to remove 'imperfections' from someones skin. For me, it is about what is beautiful and sustainable (though I understand sustainable means different things to different people!).
> 
> It is great that this hobby is getting a bit more attention (saw some video by Business Insider I think it was, that gave an overview of Aquascaping), but the line between temporary art and sustainable, stocked, planted aquariums can be fuzzy to the newcomer!


 Living things are fluid-- art is timeless ( for instance: artwork painted on a canvas, a form set in bronze statuary, a novel by Herman Melville or George Eliot-- sorry, but my personal favorite artists .
Aquascaping is certainly a form of art- no doubt. But, it is also more than that. An aquascape becomes a living thing with a beginning, a middle, and an end when we add plants, shrimp, snails, fish. And with a bit of knowledge and care the hobbyist can keep this cycle going where required or where they choose to intervene. Plants increase, snails/shrimp reproduce, fish spawn- and so on...



Seems like this goes without saying. But---


When you repeatedly see newcomers to the hobby so frustrated by their first bout with algae that they shut a tank down, you can see that their is a disconnect. 

Some people truly cannot understand that a photo is a "still" of a moment in time in this process. That there were changes that came before the photo and more to come after. Or the effort and maintenance involved by the aquarist to get to that stage. 

Those that have difficulty understanding this would have a better experience by putting that photo of an amazing aquascape in an album and opening it up every once in a while to admire it.


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> I most likely change the least amount of water.
> It is by choice and experimentation for sure.


And I find it fascinating!

But I would guess if you had a fully stocked tank of Rainbows or other harder to come by fish like many here that you would be changing more water. 

I do it for the fish. Nothing perks them up and brings out the color like a large water change.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Greggz said:


> And I find it fascinating!
> 
> But I would guess if you had a fully stocked tank of Rainbows or other harder to come by fish like many here that you would be changing more water.
> 
> I do it for the fish. Nothing perks them up and brings out the color like a large water change.


Not sure about the fascinating part! >

I would never give my method as advise to another, I would most likely stress doing WC's since most don't know what's in their water.

If I had a nitrate factory with phish yes I'd change plenty of water.
Still feed phish every 4th day and ferts every 7-9 days.
Them little soil cups saved everything in my tank, it was the very "hot" soil used in these cups by the way.

Tend to notice a constant drop in TDS, Ca, Fe, GH, PO4, etc.....
Just keep adding compounds @ a moderate level and the jungle thrives.
Wonder how many will opt for an Fe Hanna Checker for Christmas??? :grin2:
It is the unmeasured variable??? :|

One bad plant left that has acclimated to the inert sub, S.repens.
Been watching the BBA slowly fall off of the little stems.
Now mind you it's certainly not growing to a 6" height including all of the branching that comes with soil, but!


----------



## Quagulator

Maryland Guppy said:


> Wonder how many will opt for an Fe Hanna Checker for Christmas??? :grin2:


Add me to the list :wink2:


----------



## Ken Keating1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Wonder how many will opt for an Fe Hanna Checker for Christmas??? :grin2:


I think Santa already ordered mine!>


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> I think Santa already ordered mine!>


Santa has ordered a few things for me too. Namely 5 T5HO, some bulbs, and soon an inline heater. 

Maybe he will bring some hardscape too??


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> an inline heater.


Hydor? 300w?


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Hydor? 300w?


Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking.


A few bad apples in the bunch... Those reviews always stick out like a thumb after being hit with a hammer. Vast majority are happy customers. Heck, go look up reviews on any heater and you'll see disasters everywhere. 

You'll be happy with it, I've been running my 200 watt for years now, after they changed from blue/black to red/black but before they hiked the prices... money well spent.


----------



## Grobbins48

On to priming and possibly making some doors tonight? We will see what happens.










Last week the ludwigia cuba was massive with lots of side shoots. Seems to be growing a bit smaller diameter this week.



















And some fish/ plant pictures from a few days ago



















This guy was all fired up, tried my best to capture it


----------



## Ken Keating1

Interesting about the Cuda, sometimes mine has a lot of side shoots, other times very little. It seems to have it’s own agenda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Interesting about the Cuda, sometimes mine has a lot of side shoots, other times very little. It seems to have it’s own agenda.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is quite interesting Ken. I am trying to think if anything is different? I did trim them lower, so perhaps being further from the light? Macros stayed the same, and micros I went back to 2 or 3 doses a week. I really should review what my micro mixture is and get more regular with it. I am sure it could use some tweaking!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Since I’ve stopped upfront loading with daily dosing to obtain the same ppm levels in the tank throught the week and have switched to daily dosing only where nutrient levels slowly increase from one WC to the next, all plants are doing better, including the Cuda. Here’s what it currently looks like. Not perfect, but doing well.


----------



## Greggz

Ken Keating1 said:


> It seems to have it’s own agenda.


This.

L. Cuba has a mind of it's own and can't be tamed.

I kept it for years and could never find a correlation to it's behavior and tank parameters.

Sometimes would stunt a bit, and sometimes grow like mad!

Wish it grew straighter. It gets a bit wild as it twists and turns.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Greggz said:


> This.
> 
> L. Cuba has a mind of it's own and can't be tamed.




Mine does the same, I just never know what to expect out of it. Funny, in my photo above both stems were at the same height a week ago and look at the difference today.


----------



## Greggz

Ken Keating1 said:


> Mine does the same, I just never know what to expect out of it. Funny, in my photo above both stems were at the same height a week ago and look at the difference today.


Dang you guys are making me miss it.........


----------



## Grobbins48

I was warned about this one. But see, interesting enough mine looks more like Gregg's then Ken's. Oh well, let's see where it goes. 

I need to start thinking more about this new scape and what new plants I'll be wanting. Should probably start lining some of that up now, as the plants go fast!

For sure need to get some more reds, especially with the new lighting.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> On to priming and possibly making some doors tonight? We will see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some fish/ plant pictures from a few days ago. This guy was all fired up, tried my best to capture it



LOL, your bow pic looks all too familiar to my Sunday water change norm. Kudos on actually getting a good pic. Also, hood is looking good!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> LOL, your bow pic looks all too familiar to my Sunday water change norm. Kudos on actually getting a good pic. Also, hood is looking good!


Thanks! Every morning just before and just after light on this guy is flashing and spawning. Roseline Barbs love it as they feast on the eggs. 

Then the rest of the day the cherry barbs are spawning and sparing what seems non stop. The males get incredibly red! 

The boesemani flash and spar early every morning before the light, and rarely show off when the lights are on. Still amazing to see with only ambient light. Colors are amazing.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks! Every morning just before and just after light on this guy is flashing and spawning. Roseline Barbs love it as they feast on the eggs.
> 
> Then the rest of the day the cherry barbs are spawning and sparing what seems non stop. The males get incredibly red!
> 
> The boesemani flash and spar early every morning before the light, and rarely show off when the lights are on. Still amazing to see with only ambient light. Colors are amazing.


Oh man sounds like you have got the Rainbow fish bug bad!!!!:grin2:

Good thing you'll have more room soon!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Oh man sounds like you have got the Rainbow fish bug bad!!!!:grin2:
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing you'll have more room soon!


I know- hard part is I am pretty much still at/ close to limit for the 75 as well... 13 rainbows in there right now. Just the two species though, and I think I would really like some variety. 

Lot of figuring to do.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> I know- hard part is I am pretty much still at/ close to *limit for the 75 as well... 13 rainbows* in there right now. Just the two species though, and I think I would really like some variety.
> 
> Lot of figuring to do.



opps - guess I forgot to pay attention to that limit


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> opps - guess I forgot to pay attention to that limit


My thoughts exactly, ha!

Right now something like this is in the 55:

13 rainbows
16 cherry barbs
3 dennison barbs
4 panda gara
1 apisto steel blue
1 guppy that will not quit!


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## Immortal1

Yeah, I would say your tank is a bit full 
Wouldn't have it any other way


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> My thoughts exactly, ha!
> 
> Right now something like this is in the 55:
> 
> 13 rainbows
> 16 cherry barbs
> 3 dennison barbs
> 4 panda gara
> 1 apisto steel blue
> 1 guppy that will not quit!


Holey Smokes that is quite the stocking!

You don't need a 75G, you need a 120G!!:grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Holey Smokes that is quite the stocking!
> 
> 
> 
> You don't need a 75G, you need a 120G!!:grin2:


Right? Stocking was not intended this heavy. The cherry barbs were in another tank initially, but when plans changed there, they ended up in the 55.

Everyone will appreciate the room, and yet another reason I do massive water changes! Ha!


----------



## Quagulator

More stand / canopy updates! I like seeing carpentry as much as I like seeing new tanks being set up 

With that said, tank looks really good, that 75 has some big shoes to fill


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> More stand / canopy updates! I like seeing carpentry as much as I like seeing new tanks being set up
> 
> With that said, tank looks really good, that 75 has some big shoes to fill


I'll keep them coming as I get things moving. The primer is pretty much done. Moving onto the black paint. I think I may leave the inside of the hood just grey primer, and only visible parts black. I'll see how it starts to look as I paint.

Making sure I sand the primer first for a better finish, and between coats of black as well.

Still need to make the doors, but been focused on the overall canopy first. The hinges that @Greggz provided the link for came in. They should work perfect for what I am doing.

And this is a planted tank forum. So here are a few pictures to share. 

Ludwigia Cuba left, Pogo K. right










And some colors showing here


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> I'll keep them coming as I get things moving. The primer is pretty much done. Moving onto the black paint. I think I may leave the inside of the hood just grey primer, and only visible parts black. I'll see how it starts to look as I paint.
> 
> Making sure I sand the primer first for a better finish, and between coats of black as well.
> 
> Still need to make the doors, but been focused on the overall canopy first. The hinges that @*Greggz* provided the link for came in. They should work perfect for what I am doing.
> 
> And this is a planted tank forum. So here are a few pictures to share.
> 
> Ludwigia Cuba left, Pogo K. right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some colors showing here


 Love the fluffy green plant in last picture. 

So pretty. I think if I was a fish I would like to hang out in between the stems or take a nap there.


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> Love the fluffy green plant in last picture.
> 
> So pretty. I think if I was a fish I would like to hang out in between the stems or take a nap there.


Haha! You know what, they do love it! The cherry barbs are always hanging out there, although usually spawning, not napping! 

Ambulia is the plant if you wanted to know. Super fast grower. In the high light and CO2 the nodes are super close. Gets more leggy in low tech, yet still does quite well!


----------



## Discusluv

It is? My Ambula looks nothing like that in my low tech tank. Dang!


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> It is? My Ambula looks nothing like that in my low tech tank. Dang!


For 8 hrs it gets around 100-125 par, with a 2 hrs blast of 200ish...

Lot of light!!!


----------



## Grobbins48

First coat of black went on tonight... what a pain it is to brush this color on...

Many more coats for sure!


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> First coat of black went on tonight... what a pain it is to brush this color on...
> 
> Many more coats for sure!




I did all my aluminum fascia with a $100 CAD (so like 5 cents USD lol) amazon spray gun... worked like a charm once I thinned the paint to the right consistency for the spray pattern to work, planning on spraying my next stand with it too. 
I agree, brushing on black is a pain at best. 

Looks good, keep the updates coming  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> I did all my aluminum fascia with a $100 CAD (so like 5 cents USD lol) amazon spray gun... worked like a charm once I thinned the paint to the right consistency for the spray pattern to work, planning on spraying my next stand with it too.
> I agree, brushing on black is a pain at best.
> 
> Looks good, keep the updates coming
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Had I been doing this during any other season besides winter I would 100% spray it. Issue is my garage is 32° (farenheit for the friends in the great north!) and the garage is the only place I can spray.

Actually, for the background of the new 75 I purchased two containers of plasti dip and will brush that on as well (unless anyone has a better solution?). The current 55 has acrylic paint from the craft store as the background and I do not like it. If it gets wet the color changes, and you can probably see that in some of my photos.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Ludwigia Cuba left, Pogo K. right


Will be very interesting to see how these plants do under T5HO.

My guess is that you will see more color on the tops of both of these.

Here's Cuba when it gets near the light and really gets blasted.............










And Pogo K. same thing..........


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Will be very interesting to see how these plants do under T5HO.
> 
> My guess is that you will see more color on the tops of both of these.
> 
> Here's Cuba when it gets near the light and really gets blasted.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Pogo K. same thing..........


Goals! Just need to get a power veg or two in at some point!


----------



## Squisher

Tank and project hood/tank look fantastic. I've enjoyed following this and reading your journal. Thanks. 

I recently used adhesive shelf liner for the background on my tank. A vinyl decal. Applied it with some soapy water and a credit card to smooth it out and it worked flawlessly. I got a 18x72 roll for just under $10cdn at Home Depot, enough to do my tank twice. I saw it in 20" too.


----------



## Grobbins48

Some more work this evening, including doors and painting.

Made a little jig for the router










Here is the frame










The insert is 1/4 finished plywood










Here is the glued door










And the paint is starting to get somewhere. I'll leave the inside grey, contrast is nice.


----------



## Streetwise

Very nice!

Cheers from across the lake.


----------



## Immortal1

Finish work and doors are looking great!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Nice work on the canopy. 

Out of curiosity, have you thought about painting the interior of the stand white also?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Streetwise said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Cheers from across the lake.


Thank you! I don't see your location, are you over in Canada?



Immortal1 said:


> Finish work and doors are looking great!


Thanks!



Ken Keating1 said:


> Nice work on the canopy.
> 
> Out of curiosity, have you thought about painting the interior of the stand white also?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Ken. Honestly did think about white... then realized I do have a TON of light blasting out, so probably don't need that extra edge of reflection. It is also one less thing to paint!


----------



## Gillionaire

The stand is looking great! Fantastic job!


----------



## joemomma

Looking good. I left the inside of my stand unfinished wood, but sprayed the inside of the canopy white. I had a couple of rattle cans of white handy, so that's what I used. I figured with the humidity in that area, it would help the wood hold up. I too left the back open and didn't think about light bleeding out. I may have to revisit that and put some sort of back on there.

Bump: Looking good. I left the inside of my stand unfinished wood, but sprayed the inside of the canopy white. I had a couple of rattle cans of white handy, so that's what I used. I figured with the humidity in that area, it would help the wood hold up. I too left the back open and didn't think about light bleeding out. I may have to revisit that and put some sort of back on there.


----------



## Streetwise

Grobbins48 said:


> Thank you! I don't see your location, are you over in Canada?


The other lake! I'm in Vermont, the west coast of New England.


----------



## Grobbins48

Starting to look like something. This black paint does not sand well, so may not get the exact finish I am looking for, but that is okay.


----------



## Grobbins48

Streetwise said:


> The other lake! I'm in Vermont, the west coast of New England.


Oh very nice, I have some good friends living in the Montpellier area! I am about u hrs from there by car though!


----------



## Streetwise

I'm in Waterbury, the beer tourism capital of Vermont. How many is u hours? Do you know of any cool stores just across the lake, like in Plattsburgh? If you ever come this way, there is a good LFS in South Burlington (Pet Advantage), and another in Barre (One Stop Country Pet). If you do reef stuff, there is a spot with great stuff, but inconsistent hours in Waterbury Center (Green Mountain Coral).

Cheers

Edit: u is near 7 and 8 on a keyboard, so you are probably closer to OH, PA, and ON, than VT!


----------



## Ken Keating1

What’s that LED box doing in the background, I thought you were going the T5HO route!!:smile2::smile2:

Odd, if you open the photo in another tab it shows up in the correct orientation.

The setup is looking great, I like how it's coming together.


----------



## Greggz

Looks like the canopy came out very well. 

Good looking woodwork and matches the stand nicely. 

Now let's get it filled up and get it planted!!:grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Streetwise said:


> I'm in Waterbury, the beer tourism capital of Vermont. How many is u hours? Do you know of any cool stores just across the lake, like in Plattsburgh? If you ever come this way, there is a good LFS in South Burlington (Pet Advantage), and another in Barre (One Stop Country Pet). If you do reef stuff, there is a spot with great stuff, but inconsistent hours in Waterbury Center (Green Mountain Coral).
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Edit: u is near 7 and 8 on a keyboard, so you are probably closer to OH, PA, and ON, than VT!


Haha, yes 7 hrs is correct! My bad. I am in the Rochester, NY area. Thanks for the recommendations on places to check out when I make it that way!



Ken Keating1 said:


> What’s that LED box doing in the background, I thought you were going the T5HO route!!:smile2::smile2:
> 
> Odd, if you open the photo in another tab it shows up in the correct orientation.
> 
> The setup is looking great, I like how it's coming together.


I was wondering who would notice the LED after I took the picture. Its the one that came with the the tank- and it is horrible!! Something like 700 lumens. I'll find a home for it somewhere or for someone who doesn't need much light. 




Greggz said:


> Looks like the canopy came out very well.
> 
> Good looking woodwork and matches the stand nicely.
> 
> Now let's get it filled up and get it planted!!:grin2:


Thanks Gregg. I figure two more weeks and it will be wet. Still have no real plan of attack on the hardscape right now.

The move will be interesting. Thinking I may swap the 75 into the 55 spot the week or so before to make the final move easier?

Need some more planning for sure.

Right now just excited to fire up the T5HO- and figure out what other bulbs to order!


----------



## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> I was wondering who would notice the LED after I took the picture. Its the one that came with the the tank- and it is horrible!! Something like 700 lumens. I'll find a home for it somewhere or for someone who doesn't need much light.




You can always use it to light up the inside of your stand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

vvDO said:


> You can always use it to light up the inside of your stand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I could do that, for sure. Still probably quite dim.

What I'll likely do us use some Hue smart LED RGBW strips I have laying around (got a super good deal on them a few years back), and couple that with an open close sensor on the door (also have laying around from some good desks a few years back) to automate them being on and off. 

I'll probably put some of those strips in the hood and well for viewing lights. Super low PAR (yes, I measured it last year!).

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/philip...xx5Bh8LTsJUDP_vI-evsWsTmOCrrkLpBoC-F4QAvD_BwE


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> I could do that, for sure. Still probably quite dim.
> 
> What I'll likely do us use some Hue smart LED RGBW strips I have laying around (got a super good deal on them a few years back), and couple that with an open close sensor on the door (also have laying around from some good desks a few years back) to automate them being on and off.
> 
> I'll probably put some of those strips in the hood and well for viewing lights. Super low PAR (yes, I measured it last year!).
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/philip...xx5Bh8LTsJUDP_vI-evsWsTmOCrrkLpBoC-F4QAvD_BwE



Great idea on the door switch! As for the supplied LED light, yeah probably not even good enough for under cabinet lighting, lol


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> I could do that, for sure. Still probably quite dim.
> 
> What I'll likely do us use some Hue smart LED RGBW strips I have laying around (got a super good deal on them a few years back), and couple that with an open close sensor on the door (also have laying around from some good desks a few years back) to automate them being on and off.
> 
> I'll probably put some of those strips in the hood and well for viewing lights. Super low PAR (yes, I measured it last year!).
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/philip...xx5Bh8LTsJUDP_vI-evsWsTmOCrrkLpBoC-F4QAvD_BwE


Lordy! My husband is putting these Hue smart lights all over the house. If there is a "smart" house-- ours is definitely "hooked up" in every way to tech.

Problem is, when he is gone I can barely turn on a light or open the front door. .


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> Lordy! My husband is putting these Hue smart lights all over the house. If there is a "smart" house-- ours is definitely "hooked up" in every way to tech.
> 
> Problem is, when he is gone I can barely turn on a light or open the front door. .


I love our 'smart home'- it is another hobby of mine.

Simple solution- 'Alexa, turn kitchen lights off'. :grin2:


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> I love our 'smart home'- it is another hobby of mine.
> 
> Simple solution- 'Alexa, turn kitchen lights off'. :grin2:


 Then you and he would get along swimmingly 


Yes, it was Alexa, now its Siri turn off lights with the Hue "stuff". When you are tired its hard to keep all these things straight. 



I like just turning a light on and off the good old fashioned way. :|

Edit: Did you see the news with the creepy guys infiltrating home cameras-- the Ring systems? 
My husband was going to put cameras and I emphatically said "No, way! Thats the line right there.


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> Did you see the news with the creepy guys infiltrating home cameras-- the Ring systems?
> My husband was going to put cameras and I emphatically said "No, way! Thats the line right there.


Yes, super creepy and extremely unfortunate that people behave that way. MLA (multi layer authentication) is a way to keep this from happening.

Anyways... I couldn't resist myself...


----------



## Greggz

Love it.......T5 porn!:grin2:


----------



## Quagulator

Looks great, are the reflectors covered up in a protective film? If so make sure to take it off before letting the bulbs get too hot lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Looks great, are the reflectors covered up in a protective film? If so make sure to take it off before letting the bulbs get too hot lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha yeah that would not be good. I pulled all the film off. Thanks for looking out for me!


----------



## Grobbins48

Taking lots of pictures as I start to countdown the final days of this setup.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> Taking lots of pictures as I start to countdown the final days of this setup.


One pic doesn't look like "lots" to me. :frown2: :frown2: :frown2:


----------



## Ken Keating1

The tank’s looking beautiful right now, can’t wait to see what it’s gonna look like with a 50% increase in depth!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> One pic doesn't look like "lots" to me. :frown2: :frown2: :frown2:


Be careful what you ask for!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


>



Love the photo bomb!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Love the photo bomb!


Ha, yes me too! At some point with so many fast swimming fish I just take the photos.

On another note, painted the back of the tank black today. Took many, many layers of plasti dip to get full coverage, but it looks great as a background. I would prefer to spray it vs. brush it (it killed my brush, but worth the sacrifice!) however winter dictated I brush.


----------



## Grobbins48

Installed some of the Hue strips for under cabinet lighting. The sticky backing of them has worn off, so I used mirror clips to hold in place. 

These will be fully automated with an open/ close sensor once moved into place. 

Full color control too with RBGW and 1600 lumens. Works well, I have them under all my cabinets in the kitchen as well as my desk!


----------



## Grobbins48

And here are two of the right strips installed in the canopy. At 6500K light they should be about 3200 lumens, with low PAR. I'll validate that in time, and decide if I want to add two more or not. These are just viewing lights to extend the time I can enjoy the tank. Plus, there are times where I really like the lower light, in the evening, to unwind. 

I also ended up making a other pair of doors. The original ones had the face panel cut 1/16 too long and I realize that too late. They ended up curled a bit on the ends. The new set is great, and just needs to be primed, painted, and mounted. Not upset about doing it twice, as it was a good learning experience and not very costly. 

Still working on scape ideas... 

I'll try to keep these daily blog type posts going during this project.










6500K









3000K


----------



## Streetwise

This is like a concert stage prep where the production staff has done this before.


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> And here are two of the right strips installed in the canopy. At 6500K light they should be about 3200 lumens, with low PAR. I'll validate that in time, and decide if I want to add two more or not. These are just viewing lights to extend the time I can enjoy the tank. Plus, there are times where I really like the lower light, in the evening, to unwind.
> 
> I also ended up making a other pair of doors. The original ones had the face panel cut 1/16 too long and I realize that too late. They ended up curled a bit on the ends. The new set is great, and just needs to be primed, painted, and mounted. Not upset about doing it twice, as it was a good learning experience and not very costly.
> 
> Still working on scape ideas...
> 
> I'll try to keep these daily blog type posts going during this project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6500K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3000K




I like the idea of daily blog like postings. I wish we did more of them. Not just reporting what we’re doing, but how what we are doing gets changed by what we learn along the way — and how we feel about it. 

Makes it much more interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Quagulator

Discusluv said:


> I like the idea of daily blog like postings. I wish we did more of them. Not just reporting what we’re doing, but how what we are doing gets changed by what we learn along the way — and how we feel about it.
> 
> Makes it much more interesting.


Stay tuned for my journal(s) I think I'll follow a similar path until mods get angry over the amount of updates I'm posting, I'll keep them aquarium related to the best of my abilities lol :wink2:


----------



## Immortal1

LOL, I see the Marineland LED is still banished to the corner.
Canopy is looking great so far - agree with having very low PAR lights for evening relaxing.


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Stay tuned for my journal(s) I think I'll follow a similar path until mods get angry over the amount of updates I'm posting, I'll keep them aquarium related to the best of my abilities lol :wink2:


Looking forward to this! I see great things coming! 



Immortal1 said:


> LOL, I see the Marineland LED is still banished to the corner.
> Canopy is looking great so far - agree with having very low PAR lights for evening relaxing.


Yes... That light can continue to hang out there!


----------



## Grobbins48

The 55 needed a massive trim, as plants were starting to choke themselves out. I was trying to hold out for the 75 to be set up, but there is still a ton of plants. I'll need some space for some new ones too.
@Maryland Guppy I saw your post in for sale... I wish I had some more space right now, but I'll likely hit you and Burr up in the coming weeks as the new tank gets flooded. 

Below is a picture of barclaya longifolia that came from @Greggz who got it from @Immortal1. Just a tiny bulb, but it seems to be holding on, putting out a new small leaf each week. It is not getting a ton of light where it is due to the position of the light and the Pogo K. behind it. There are 3 other bulbs scattered in the tank, but so far this is the only champ. I'll continue to give it time, and I know that for Gregg it took a while to get going.










The compact amazon sword is doing quite well. Not too large... yet. This one will probably make the move to the 75 initially. It is nice to have a few slower plants!










Now here is what I need to decide on: Will I make use of a carpeting plant in the 75? I had a successful dwarf mini hairgrass in my 29, this monte carlo has done quite well in the 55. I suppose it comes down to the scape design, but I am leaning twoards keeping something like this going.










Trimmed just about everything else in the tank, including the hygrophila compacta, keeping some smaller offshoots that have been grown in my water (older leaves falling off and getting BBA).

With all the new tank work it was nice to do a trim in the 55. Water change will hopefuly come tonight.


----------



## Grobbins48

As a person who preaches patience I really messed this one up this evening. The 55 has been looking great, so I though I would throw the canopy from the 75 on it until I was ready for the swap. That way I could play around a bit with the new lights.

Well, the hood did not fit, too tight for the 55, so as I was trying to take it off and move it back, it slipped a bit and landed right on the T5's, blowing two of them out....

Quite frustrating, and my own fault. Lost the purple and the tropic... and had a mess to clean up. Even some glass in the 55 I have to remove as best I could.

Little setback, but I'll power through. Just frustrated with myself, as I knew better than to let this happen. 

Back to square one with bulbs, as all I have now are all the sunblaster 6500k and the super flora.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Below is a picture of barclaya longifolia that came from @Greggz who got it from @Immortal1. Just a tiny bulb, but it seems to be holding on, putting out a new small leaf each week. It is not getting a ton of light where it is due to the position of the light and the Pogo K. behind it. There are 3 other bulbs scattered in the tank, but so far this is the only champ. I'll continue to give it time, and I know that for Gregg it took a while to get going.


Good to see the Longifolia is alive. 

And yes, took a LONG time for mine to settle in. But once it did, my goodness a really good steady grower. It does like light, so the more the better. And don't count out those other bulbs. Mine was nothing but a bare bulb with no leaves when it perked up.

And sorry to see the accident with the bulbs. It stinks but things happen. Bet you won't make that mistake again!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> And sorry to see the accident with the bulbs. It stinks but things happen. Bet you won't make that mistake again!


Thanks Gregg, and you got that right! 

Where do you get the TrueLumen Flora? They are tough to source. 

Looking at all the Agro Max bulbs and I feel like they may be worth a shot to try, mixing a pure par, pure bloom, bloom, and maybe a 5000K or something like that.

Lots of bulb options, but they are all sourced from different places!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Where do you get the TrueLumen Flora? They are tough to source.
> 
> Looking at all the Agro Max bulbs and I feel like they may be worth a shot to try, mixing a pure par, pure bloom, bloom, and maybe a 5000K or something like that.


Haven't bought the Truelumen in a long time. I took a quick look and can't seem to find them anywhere. 
Might not be available any longer.

So yeah, maybe the Agro Max is a good option. If you pick some up want to hear more.


----------



## Immortal1

Interesting about the Barclaya. Suppose I should mention that my "copy" came from the one and only @burr740. Its a great plant for sure and I would guess Joe has made many others happy with his "copy"


----------



## burr740

Ah yes I have children all over the country. Just like my father before me and his father before him.

Think they discontinued TL Floras.


----------



## RLee

burr740 said:


> Ah yes I have children all over the country. Just like my father before me and his father before him.
> 
> Think they discontinued TL Floras.


True Lumen has discontinued everything florescent. I purchased some of their last bulbs at the beginning of the year directly from them off fleabay. Good price at the time $30 for 2 shipped.


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Ah yes I have children all over the country. Just like my father before me and his father before him.
> 
> Think they discontinued TL Floras.





RLee said:


> True Lumen has discontinued everything florescent. I purchased some of their last bulbs at the beginning of the year directly from them off fleabay. Good price at the time $30 for 2 shipped.


Ah, well this makes sense why I cannot find them then. Pretty hard to find any flora bulb in 54 watt beside the Giesemann PowerChrome Super Flora and the Wavepoint Ultra Growth (which seems more purple than pink?).


----------



## Hendy8888

What about Zoomed flora sun? I think they are a bit more pink than the Giesemann if I remember correctly.


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> What about Zoomed flora sun? I think they are a bit more pink than the Giesemann if I remember correctly.


I did find them at petswarehouse.com in the 46 inch. I could grab two and have them shipped here for ~$45, which I may consider. 

Wish there was a local place where I could grab a bulb here and there, and not be fragmented all over the internet with $20- $40 shipping each time!


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> I did find them at petswarehouse.com in the 46 inch. I could grab two and have them shipped here for ~$45, which I may consider.
> 
> Wish there was a local place where I could grab a bulb here and there, and not be fragmented all over the internet with $20- $40 shipping each time!


Adding to cart:

"Free Shipping***"

At checkout:

"*** - Free shipping applies to orders not containing bulky items or light bulbs"


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Adding to cart:
> 
> "Free Shipping***"
> 
> At checkout:
> 
> "*** - Free shipping applies to orders not containing bulky items or light bulbs"


HA!  Yes, always the case. I don't mind paying shipping for the bulbs not being broke, its just the fragmented supply that is tough.

I did grab two of the ZooMed Flora Sun from that site I found.

So right now I have:

One Aquaflora
Two Flora Sun
Four 6500K Sunblaster

Thinking of ordering from AgroMax the following:

3,000K
Pure Bloom (red with 660 peak)
Pure Par
10,000K

This gives me some things to play with. I think I will like the ZooMed flora sun to keep the PAR down (found a post from the past where Burr measured them new at ~32 PAR at substrate).

This way I should be able to get some good color going with 5 bulbs without blasting 200 PAR at substrate!

I have not yet placed an order for AgroMax- probably will later tonight. I'll take any thoughts/ feedback on bulbs to try!

Here is the place where the AgroMax are https://www.htgsupply.com






Oh, I also have a PAR meter on the way:nerd::surprise::grin2:

Rabbit hole...


----------



## RLee

I have been tempted to try these from fleabay "4 Pack T5 Bulb 54W Aquarium Light Bulb HO for 48" 4 ft 6500K 10000K Actinic Pink" $33 for 4 shipped, almost seems to good.


----------



## burr740

Wasnt that Flora Sun measurement with an older bulb? Seems like it was. They have pretty good par, about like truelumen, hold up well too. 

I have a couple of the pure par. Color-wise I like them just as much as the ATI purp but they arent nearly as bright. 

Looking forward to see all the readings from the new meter!


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Wasnt that Flora Sun measurement with an older bulb? Seems like it was. They have pretty good par, about like truelumen, hold up well too.
> 
> I have a couple of the pure par. Color-wise I like them just as much as the ATI purp but they arent nearly as bright.
> 
> Looking forward to see all the readings from the new meter!


Looks like the new vs. old you did was on the truelumen flora, 30 vs 43, and a new flora sun at 32. Either way I am excited for them! Glad I have two coming, plus the aquaflora for lots of combination possibilities. 

Sad I lost the tropic 6500K, but I'll see how these sunblaster and AgroMax ones work out. before getting any others. 

I am excited to flood the 75 and play around with all of these!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

All this damn bulb talk! :|:|:|


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> All this damn bulb talk! :|:|:|


I was considering using solely these... thoughts? :laugh2::laugh2:>


----------



## Immortal1

Perfect! Now add in the Vintage setting on your cell phone and you will have some great pics


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Perfect! Now add in the Vintage setting on your cell phone and you will have some great pics


Ha! Yes!

Very nice work on the callback!


----------



## Grobbins48

PAR meter arrived today- should be fun to play around with in the coming days/ weeks. 

Headed out to the local TSC and grabbed two BDBS 50lb bags of medium grit. Just couldn't sell myself on going any other way. $20 is pretty sweet for all the substrate.

Also stopped at the garden center to look at some stones for the tank. Everything mostly covered in snow, but I did find some that I think will work well. If they do not work out, the bright side is the employee working didn't want to get the scale out and weight them, so he looked in my trunk and said "$5 sound good?". So the two 5 gallon bucket work of landscaping stone may or may not be used! Will be nice to have plenty to work with though.

Finally got around to painting the doors. One more coat tomorrow and we should be good to go.

All the bulbs should arrive on Monday. Once the tank is flooded I'll do some detailed analysis on each one.

I ended up getting an Aqueon Pro 200w heater for this tank. Chewy had it on sale for $20 (a $55 heater, they are fantastic), and the local Pet Supplies Plus matched the price. Manager was shocked, but honored it with no problem. I figured I run a black background, with black intakes. This can be hidden pretty well, and is nearly indestructible. 

I was asked this evening percentage wise how close is this tank to being done. I answered probably 50% at this point! Feeling accomplished, but a long way to go!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> I was considering using solely these... thoughts? :laugh2::laugh2:>


Just ordered several of these to replace the LED's >


----------



## Discusluv

Maryland Guppy said:


> Just ordered several of these to replace the LED's >


Good thing for Thomas Edison-- he can use the money for Christmas presents. :grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

So actually getting the Seneye to connect and register to my computer is slightly infuriating...

Brand new device and I am having issues. It is telling me the deceive is not registered to my account. Correct... it is new! There also seems to be nowhere to register it?

Needless to say an e-mail is out to Seneye to resolve this. Don't expect to hear back for a while with the holidays. 

This is kind of like being a kid with 'batteries not included ' and the parents forgot to buy the batteries! Excited to have the toy, but I just sits there for now! Ha!

All 6 AgroMax bulbs came in. The two ZooMed Flora Sun are still waiting to be shipped. 

Started to get some sand and rock in the tank. Hitting a bit of a wall with the scape and where I want it to land. Thinking triangle, with a slope. Similar to what I have now but a different rock structure.

Will likely end up changing a few time before I decide!


----------



## Squisher

Good stuff. I like the updates. 

Possibly this link will help you register your seneye? https://www.seneye.me/


----------



## Greggz

Have you tried here? Click on Seneye.me.

Welcome to seneye answers - Seneye


----------



## Grobbins48

Squisher said:


> Good stuff. I like the updates.
> 
> Possibly this link will help you register your seneye? https://www.seneye.me/





Greggz said:


> Have you tried here? Click on Seneye.me.
> 
> Welcome to seneye answers - Seneye


Yeah, I tried those links, searching, etc. Here is what I get...


----------



## Squisher

I'm not probably fully aware(understatement, lol). Do you already have an account/device? You are adding another one?

Attaching multiple seneye devices to your account - Seneye


----------



## Grobbins48

Squisher said:


> I'm not probably fully aware(understatement, lol). Do you already have an account/device? You are adding another one?
> 
> Attaching multiple seneye devices to your account - Seneye


Yeah, I had an account. Couldn't even get to that point in setup where I could add a device. 

I tried deleting my account and starting over, which is when I ended up at the screenshot above. 

I am sure they will resolve it for me, just in a couple of days!

Appreciate the support!


----------



## Squisher

Ahh. I see, hopefully they sort you out soon. I have no experience with the seneye was just trying to help out, sorry if it just added to the frustration. I will be interested to read your experience with this device.


----------



## Grobbins48

Squisher said:


> Ahh. I see, hopefully they sort you out soon. I have no experience with the seneye was just trying to help out, sorry if it just added to the frustration. I will be interested to read your experience with this device.


All good, I appreciate the support of others. No longer frustrated, its Christmas Eve! 

Hope everyone has a wonderful holiday for whatever you and your family celebrate!


----------



## Grobbins48

Just have to say, Seneye customer service was fantastic. The connected the device to my account quite quickly and I verified things are working. 

Next up is to move these tanks and flood the 75!


----------



## Grobbins48

Early today marked time to move the tanks. The 55 where the 75 had been staged, and the 75 into its final position. Still work to do on the 75, including leveling. 

Here was the draining of the 55










Then moved to the other position










Empty space to clean up for the 75. Had a tank here for 5 years










75 in it's new home










Now with the hood on. Already feels so much better having the back stand and hood!










Looking under the 55 after moving it gave me a bit of a panic, until I realized these are actually roots! Blyxa japonica are the main ones shown here










Three tanks looks good, right??? Haha!










And finally, what the 55 looks like after a nearly 100% water change. No trimming today, just scrapped the GSA, which showed up over the past two days. I forgot to check the parameters, but my assumption is PO4 was probably quite low and caused this. Been a long time since it had been this bad. 

Also, I think I will move to measuring out my ferts by weight. I know other have done this experiment before, but I weighted out my measurements and compared to what they should be, as as expected there was quite the variance. It is super easy to weight them out. Using the @Maryland Guppy red solo cups and the tare function on the scale it maybe added 60 seconds to dosing ferts. Can't believe it had taken me thing long to chage!

Next up is to do some wiring and setup I the 75, probably today. Then can play with the scape and flood it to play with some bulbs. 

Not yet sure when the final swap over will be, but feel really good to have moved the tanks! Only about an hour or so of work!

Anyways, here is the picture finally!


----------



## Greggz

Very nice!

The stand and canopy look great together.

Really looking forward to seeing the 75G planted, and how a little extra room changes things.

Keep the updates coming!


----------



## Grobbins48

Spent the balance of the mor.ing setting up a few things on the 75. Added a mat to the bottom of the cabinet, as well as open/ close sensors to automate the Hue lights under the cabinet.




























I then played with the Seneye a bit on the 49 breeder blackwater. I am having a BGA issue, and I think I it is because of zero NO3 coupled with much stronger light than I thought. I'll post more about it over on that thread, but this Asta 20 with a 90° lenses pushed out something like 225 PAR 2 inches below the water (with the fixture 8 inches above water). At 16 or so inches pushed out 80ish.

Pretty impressive little light!










Finally get the chance to play with the scape. I don't want to go too massive and thematic with it, as I know I'll want plenty of plants all around. This is my first thought. I have the picture and some time to think on it.


----------



## Immortal1

Really liking the new tank setup - looks very much at home there. Always a bit shocking seeing a fully planted tank from the underside. I remember my fist time seeing all the sword and crinum roots. 
Looking forward to what you come up with for a layout.


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Really liking the new tank setup - looks very much at home there. Always a bit shocking seeing a fully planted tank from the underside. I remember my fist time seeing all the sword and crinum roots.
> 
> Looking forward to what you come up with for a layout.


Thanks Linn! It really is interesting trying to plan how it will look planted. Not only with what plants I have now but with future additions. 

I suppose yet again, another reason that I love using BDBS. I do not need to commit to anything, as it is easy and clean to rescape!


----------



## Immortal1

Very much a bonus of the BDBS. Lately I have been spending as much time re-arranging as I have been trimming. 
From my point of view - soil tanks are best left to those who know what they are doing and how they want it to look before they start - I fit neither


----------



## Grobbins48

Just for fun- not yet flooded so not sure if PAR readings with the Seneye mean anything (not sure if it corrects for water or anything?). I may flood it tomorrow and play around! 

Left to right:

AgroMax 10,000k
AgroMax Pure Par
AgroMax Pure Bloom
Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax 3,000k


----------



## Greggz

Love it!

Yet another full color T5 display.

Now get that thing flooded and let's get going!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> From my point of view - soil tanks are best left to those who know what they are doing and how they want it to look before they start - I fit neither


I would like to propose a test.
Maybe not with the horrible red mini solo cups I use but another small container of your liking.
Plant something in a capped soil cup and place it right beside the same plant in the inert substrate and wait 1 month.


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> I would like to propose a test.
> 
> Maybe not with the horrible red mini solo cups I use but another small container of your liking.
> 
> Plant something in a capped soil cup and place it right beside the same plant in the inert substrate and wait 1 month.


I like this idea. Wish I would have tried sooner actually in the 55. 

Perhaps once things get settled with the 75 I'll do this!


----------



## Grobbins48

Teaser... more to come...


----------



## Streetwise

You melted crayons on your water!


----------



## Grobbins48

The final picture of the 55. It is the end of a year, decade, and for this journal, the end of an era!


----------



## Immortal1

Looks like pretty impressive ending. Very much looking forward to the new beginning.


----------



## Grobbins48

I began the day yesterday by taking multiple readings of some new AgroMax bulbs with my Seneye PAR meter. I posted that information over on the share your bulb thread linked here: 

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...re-your-bulb-combo-thread-5.html#post11290379

Once that was complete, I decided to dive in and make the transition from 55 to 75. I had an idea on how I would approach it, but figured things would come up to make me wing it as well.

I had been playing with the hardscape, and was quite unsure of where it would land, but realized that with BDBS, it really is not a big deal and can be changed. I began to add the final bit of BDBS into the tank, and flooded it. None of the BDBS was rinsed, and it was all new- right from the bag into the tank. No problems what so ever with this. The few floaters that did show up were either skimmed off by me, or eventually caught by the surface skimmers of the filter intakes.






























Once the tank was filled (and the PAR readings completed) I thought I would try to add some wood and see how it looked. Played around for about 5 min, and these two pieces combined actually looked pretty good (will see pictures at the end). I would not have been able to pull this off in the 55 (I tried) as it was just too tight. 18 inches paying off already!

Then, after quickly taking the final photo of the 55, I pulled the first filter off. This was the one that has the inline reactor attached to it. I figured it would be good to start with that one and get everything secured and working properly. 

I left the Fluval 407 running on the 55 while I plant by plant deconstructed it. I had an initial vision of the planting, but knowing things will change and I want to swap around a few species and try some new things too (@Maryland Guppy - so sorry you tossed so many stems! I'll reach out to you about your next trim and try out some new plants!).

Once all the plants were transferred over, I transferred the Fluval 407 as well. Between these two filters I have plenty of media, so I had very little concern about the substrate and hardscape being 'fresh'.










I dose the tank with an inaugural dose of ferts, dosing to 70 gallons to get my current target levels.

The 55 was drained down low at this point to begin transferring the fish over. Rainbows absolutely love to freak out in a net, along with roseline sharks! The good thing here is I didn't mind if some of the BDBS from the 55 made it into the net (which absolutely happened!), making the catching much easier. In all I transered:

13 Rainbows
14 Cherry Barbs
3 Roseline 
4 Elegan Cory cats
4 Panda Garra
1 'Steel Blue' Apisto
1 Female Guppy

They all made the transition and are already loving the new tank (colors are also beyond amazing with the current bulb setup!).










Then, just needed to add the finishing touches (few more things to do still) to the stand and canopy.










Added the curtain from the front of the 55 to the back on the canopy of the 75 to keep light off the wall. Added an open close sensor to the canopy that I'll tie into the lights to turn off specific ones when I open the canopy as not to blind myself. This sensor also report temperature to me, currently at 90F in the canopy after 3 hrs of all 5 T5's running Tank sitting at about 75F and holding steady so far.

Current bulb combo (the ZooMed Flora have not yet arrived, maybe Thursday they will be here)

Left to Right:

AgroMax Grow (6500K)
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure PAR
Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax 5400K Specturm










Yesterday this combo put me at 100 PAR at substrate, with the bulbs 10 inches from the water, and readings 16 inches under the surface. Today that reading after the bulbs being on for 3 hrs and being planted is 90. 

We will see where the ZooMed Flora end up from a PAR perspective. I was initially thinking the 105 – 110 range, but I’ll let 90 run for a while. The AgroMax Pure Bloom puts out some good red, but is quite weak on PAR (12ish at substrate).

The colors from this combo though, I must say… are pretty amazing…

Next post will have the unveiling pictures…


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> I want to swap around a few species and try some new things too (@Maryland Guppy - so sorry you tossed so many stems! I'll reach out to you about your next trim and try out some new plants!).


Any time, it's not really a next trim, I am always trimming! :grin2:


----------



## schooldazed

"Next post will have the unveiling pictures..."

You big tease!











The unplugged plug seems terribly apropos and somewhat poignant if not all together sad. Without knowledge of the 75 across the way, that is.


----------



## Grobbins48

Happy New Year to all, and happy new tank!

As promised, here is the 75 gallon. I am very pleased with it. Only thing I am unsure of is putting the monte carlo in or not. Currently it sits in a bag on my desk!


----------



## Immortal1

Good morning and Happy New Year. The new tank is looking great considering 24 hours ago it was just a glass box. Having that extra 6" of depth certainly gives you the option of having a little more exposed substrate in the front - I like it. Guessing the fish will like have a few extra gallons of water to swim in as well. Nice work


----------



## Streetwise

That looks very nice!


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Good morning and Happy New Year. The new tank is looking great considering 24 hours ago it was just a glass box. Having that extra 6" of depth certainly gives you the option of having a little more exposed substrate in the front - I like it. Guessing the fish will like have a few extra gallons of water to swim in as well. Nice work


You know what is funny? I feel like I don't yet know how to use those extra 6 inches! Once I get some new plants in I am sure that will change!

I am sure there are a few tweaks here and there to make with the wood placement. Want to try to push it back a bit more and get the pogo k in front of it more. 

The ZooMed flora sun should be in tomorrow. I added the 3000K and took out the 5400K today and gained 5 PAR at substrate, getting to about 95. Will be fun to play with a total of 3 flora bulbs too! Have lots of ideas for different combinations to try.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> I am sure there are a few tweaks here and there to make with the wood placement. Want to try to push it back a bit more and get the pogo k in front of it more.


Maybe move the wood feature little more to the left and back? Thinking that would fit more in line with the rule of thirds (assuming I really have any idea exactly how that works).


----------



## Grobbins48

Couple of bulb combos:


Left (Back) to Right (Front):

Giesemann Super Flora

AgroMax Pure Bloom

AgroMax Pure Par

AgroMax Finisher 10,000K

Agro Max Grow 5400K




















Left (Back) to Right (Front):

Giesemann Super Flora

AgroMax Pure Bloom

AgroMax Pure Par

ZooMed Flora Sun

AgroMax Finisher 10,000K


----------



## Immortal1

Liking the 2nd pic - based solely on the color of the Pogo K


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Liking the 2nd pic - based solely on the color of the Pogo K


You know what is funny?? I use the pogo K as my judging plant too! Ha!

I currently have it at the 2nd one. Looking at the picture it is interesting how much more purple the 2nd if from the 1st, with just a single bulb change.

Camera is on auto white balance, and inset ISO to 125. 

At 7:30 it will be only the two flora bulbs and the pure bloom for about an hour. Should look interesting! 

Having too much fun!


----------



## Grobbins48

This is just the flora sun, pure bloom, and super flora running.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> You know what is funny?? I use the pogo K as my judging plant too! Ha!
> 
> I currently have it at the 2nd one. Looking at the picture it is interesting how much more purple the 2nd if from the 1st, with just a single bulb change.
> 
> Camera is on auto white balance, and inset ISO to 125.
> 
> At 7:30 it will be only the two flora bulbs and the pure bloom for about an hour. Should look interesting!
> 
> Having too much fun!


I like the second one too.

And glad to see you are having fun with the bulb combos. It's amazing how just changing out one bulb can create a new hue.

From 8:00 to 8:30 I run only a Powerveg 660 (RED) and a Super Purple......it's a crazy cool look as the day winds down. I think you will like it.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> This is just the flora sun, pure bloom, and super flora running.


 For what it's worth, I really like this pic simply because the colors don't look washed out. There is a real contrast in colors in the upper 1/2 of the tank.
I think the thing that Burr740 and GreegZ have mastered with their bulb combos is getting the colors to pop (like above) and still have the rest of the tank look bright. 

Definitely something I have not been able to ultimately achieve with my LED lights.


----------



## Squisher

Just some stunning pictures. Really cool to have been able to follow and continue to follow this whole process and changeover.


----------



## Grobbins48

Little afternoon project. I enjoy customizing these final little touches!


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> Little afternoon project. I enjoy customizing these final little touches!


Puts the dumpster fire inside my stand to shame!


Really liking the quick setup of this tank, looking really good. Bulb selection is always a hot topic, I like the 2nd pic above as well.


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Puts the dumpster fire inside my stand to shame!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really liking the quick setup of this tank, looking really good. Bulb selection is always a hot topic, I like the 2nd pic above as well.


Mine used to be the same dumpster fire as well! Couldn't let that happen again in a new setup! 

The goal was to have this transition completed by the new year, and the time off this past couple weeks really helped to speed things along.

Bulb selection is fun to play around with. Now time to let the combo I am running hang out for a few weeks and see how plant growth nd color may change.

Also, I have some amazing new plants that should be here early next week. Tonight/ tomorrow I'll get things set and ready for them. Some plants I have really wanted!

I may get rid of the amazon sword and the java ferns. Still thinking it through though.


----------



## Immortal1

I used to have a couple of swords and a java fern in my tank. The swords just got too big - even in a 75g tank. So I understand your delema.


----------



## Quagulator

Me as well, I started to actually care about my tank for around a month or so and now my flame sword is already showing signs of it becoming a monster, low tech too....

I had a java fern easily 24” long when I spread it out a few years back. 

Unless you’ve got a very large tank with lowish light these plants get huge, easy excuse to grow some out, make a few pennies and reinvest in some smaller plants though! 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vvDO

Immortal1 said:


> I used to have a couple of swords and a java fern in my tank. The swords just got too big - even in a 75g tank. So I understand your delema.




I was in much the same boat as you were... in. 40B, I had a huge Crinum and 2-3 variety of swords which were getting out of hand... I ended up giving away the large Crinum, kept a small offshoot, and gave away most of the swords. After that java ferns were growing too large and thick, so out they went... Now I’m at the same spot as before. Crinum grew large and the remaining sword is sending many offshoots off a flower stalk. Local club meet coming and they will probably be up for the swap if I can make it.


G,
Loving the new setup... looking great right from the start... I think you can add your carpet back, should be easy enough to tear it back out if you decide on something else. My guess is with the new plants coming in you’ll be needing some space.


----------



## Grobbins48

vvDO said:


> I was in much the same boat as you were... in. 40B, I had a huge Crinum and 2-3 variety of swords which were getting out of hand... I ended up giving away the large Crinum, kept a small offshoot, and gave away most of the swords. After that java ferns were growing too large and thick, so out they went... Now I’m at the same spot as before. Crinum grew large and the remaining sword is sending many offshoots off a flower stalk. Local club meet coming and they will probably be up for the swap if I can make it.
> 
> 
> G,
> Loving the new setup... looking great right from the start... I think you can add your carpet back, should be easy enough to tear it back out if you decide on something else. My guess is with the new plants coming in you’ll be needing some space.


I decided to move the java fern over to my 40 Blackwater. Thinking it looks pretty good!

As to the carpet, I did replay a portion of it. I had the same thoughts, easy to rip out!

Not just to decide what to do with the wood... hmmm...

The 40 with the java fern:


----------



## Grobbins48

Just a few pictures of some of the plants tonight. Java fern and sword moved out to make room for some plants coming in.

Not sure how long the driftwood will last!!!


----------



## Immortal1

Some real nice colors showing thru with your bulb combination! 
Look forward to the new additions.


----------



## Greggz

C'mon now.....let's here it......what are the species that are coming??


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> C'mon now.....let's here it......what are the species that are coming??


Haha, yeah, I suppose! Placed an order with Joe, and this is what is coming in:


Ludwigia sp red (super red mini) 

Limnophila belem

Hyptis lorentziana

Limnophila chinesis

Ludwigia senegalensis

Penthorum sedoides

Blyxa alternifolia

Pretty excited to see how these do. Limnophila genus in general have me a bit nervous. Have done well in the past, but I think my cherry barbs have a sweet spot for them. Catch them nibbling from time to time on the hippuridoides, and the aromatica mini I when I had it in the past. Not really any other plants though.

We will see if it's just the aromatica mini and the hippuridoides or the whole genus!


----------



## Immortal1

Thats a great looking list of plants!


----------



## Grobbins48

As I suspected... Had to take the wood out to fit all the plants! Perhaps when things settle I'll make it more of an aquascape, but for now I am thrilled on how healthy these plants are, and how they are looking in the aquarium. Here is to hoping they settle well and enjoy my water! Thanks again @burr740!

Here is how they were packaged- absolutely amazing!



















All laid out on the tray, here is what they are:

Gratiola viscidula
Crypt spiralis red
Ludwigia sp red (super red mini)
Limnophila belem
Hyptis lorentziana
Limnophila chinesis
Ludwigia senegalensis
Penthorum sedoides
Blyxa alternifolia










Here are some other shots. Not an arrangement yet, just wanted to get them into the sand. Once they settle I have some ideas of where to move things around.




















This is the tank right after I put everything in. I'll post another picture once things start to reach for the light!











Oh, and looks like I'll be giving snails a try :laugh2::laugh2: Not mad at it at all! Embracing my ecosystem!


----------



## burr740

Looks great man! And thanks for the order!


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Looks great man! And thanks for the order!


Thanks. The goal now is to keep them looking as great as they are coming from you! 
@Quagulator moving the topic of dosing pump over here. Thinking of doing family micros and the only way to pull that off is with a dosing pump. What are you using? I have been thinking of going the cheap route with the Jeabo one:

Jebao Programmable Auto Dosing Pump DP-4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014KKCILE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_R98eEbZJ35V6D

Would love to hear thoughts on this pump, as well as going daily.


----------



## Grobbins48

As the 55 gallon was winding down over the past few weeks, I had noticed an uptick in GDA/ GSA on the glass and some of the plants. I had some suspicions on what may cause a bit of this, but I was caught up in the new 75 build. I decided to look back over my records and review my PO4 dosing. It I had been adding 8ppm worth after each water change. This 8ppm was based on 70% of the water volume. I had been figuring this was enough. I then went to test my water in the 75 gallon, and it came up >2ppm and <5ppm... interesting I told myself.

So little experiment... I added another 2ppm worth to the tank (dosing it to the 70 gallons total water I estimate is in the system). 30 min later I tested again, and now I am >5ppm and <10ppm PO4. Mind you between the NO3 I add and the fish load I am between 30-40ppm NO3 in the water column (tested and validated). 

Looking back at the dosing and how I am changing water, I think I want to add closer to 12ppm PO4 to my 70% water volume change. This should put me at a much better level for the week, and hopefully mitigate this slight uptick in GSA/ GDA. 

Here is what I am thinking for my next water change:


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> @Quagulator moving the topic of dosing pump over here. Thinking of doing family micros and the only way to pull that off is with a dosing pump. What are you using? I have been thinking of going the cheap route with the Jeabo one:



Sorry for the late reply, I’ve been at a work conference and not on here too much. 

I went the cheap route as well and picked up a Marine Magic and the pump itself is decent, super easy to program, decent battery memory, 4 controllable speeds, up to 16 doses per day from each pump, 3 pump heads (replacements come from China so I buy lots, and being in Canada makes them cringe worthy expensive) the power supply is garbage, I’ve got the connections electrical taped tightly together otherwise they come loose and you go a few weeks without any doses (hello algae) and the tube mounting bracket is garbage, gets the job done on tanks less than 55 gallons, but not big enough for larger rimmed tanks. 

But, easier than remembering to dose 2mL’s of this and 4mL’s of that each day. 

Calibrating it is not very fun because there is no standard set amounts it will pump. Trial and error until you get the right amount of pumping time to yield what volume you’re after given tube length, tube diameter, head height and check valve resistance. 

I use check valves to avoid back-siphoning, and I have the tubes above the water line to avoid any back siphoning and to limit mold growth on the tube itself. 



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## Grobbins48

Wanted to cross post this from the Share Your Bulb thread:

Trying out the above-mentioned combination, minus one of the Pure Par. Lots of interesting thoughts that I’ll try to document. I took all pictures at the same time and set the white balance to the K value my Seneye gave me (can be see in the snapshots below). This makes it as close to what I actually see as I can get things. The ISO is set to 100 and shutter speed set to 1/45. All taken on my Samsung Galaxy S8. Ignore the slight glair on the left side of the tank, these photos were not taken at night, but I did the best I could to eliminate other light sources. Probably would have been better done at night- another time.

Here is the testing setup for PAR readings









First off, as a baseline here is my current setup in the tank. A cooler purple look to it.








And here are the Seneye Reading for it









Next I switched to the about suggestion, but using only one Pure Par (only have 5 slots.) This is much brighter, and more powerful then my current configuration.


























Finally, based on GreggZ post with the red vs. 3000K bulb, I decided to try a 3000K in place of my Pure Bloom. Bumps the PAR a bit, and warms everything, purples are not really pulling through.


----------



## Grobbins48

Happy Friday! Did a trim and need to do the water change later on. Some things are settling well, while some are doing some melting. Hopefully just an adjustment phase.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Happy Friday! Did a trim and need to do the water change later on. Some things are settling well, while some are doing some melting. Hopefully just an adjustment phase.


I think this is something that is under discussed. I have had many plants I received go through an "adjustment" phase. Sometimes mild, and sometimes a complete melt. 

I've learned over time to have patience and stick with them. Many times they may look like they will not make it, and then suddenly beautiful new growth starts.

Then again, sometimes they just don't make it. It happens. Always a roll of the dice.

Good luck and hope they all hang in there and end up doing well.


----------



## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> Happy Friday! Did a trim and need to do the water change later on. Some things are settling well, while some are doing some melting. Hopefully just an adjustment phase.




That Kimberly has really taken off!


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## Deedledee

Beautiful !


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## Grobbins48

vvDO said:


> That Kimberly has really taken off!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, it is doing absolutely fantastic these past few months, and I have enough stems that when one stem stunts a bit and send out 3-4 new shoots its not even noticed. 



Deedledee said:


> Beautiful !


Thank you!



Greggz said:


> I think this is something that is under discussed. I have had many plants I received go through an "adjustment" phase. Sometimes mild, and sometimes a complete melt.
> 
> I've learned over time to have patience and stick with them. Many times they may look like they will not make it, and then suddenly beautiful new growth starts.
> 
> Then again, sometimes they just don't make it. It happens. Always a roll of the dice.
> 
> Good luck and hope they all hang in there and end up doing well.


So what is interesting with this is there are certain species that are doing really well in my water, not missing a single beat. Some of my best growers are:

*ludwigia broadleaf*- prolific, strong, and branching growth. Gets a nice burnt orange color under the high light. 

*ludwigia peruensis*- Slow grower, but steady. Have a few stems going, but fighting some green algae on mid level leaves. 

*pogostemon kimberly*- Probably my best grower right now, and the best I have ever had it. 20-30 stems in the tank right now.

*nymphoides taiwan*- as most, a few times a week I need to pinch off some leaves, and ever few months I reset and toss out the mother plant, keeping only the daughters. 

*Myrio red stem*- Not a lot of branching, but super healthy and super fast growth

*Limnophila Indica (Ambulia)*- Usually a weekly uproot and replant, super fast and super healthy, around 15-20 stems right now.

*bacopa colorata*- I have about 5 stems that are growing well, but the tops consistently have BGA

Some that I am struggling with:

*limnophila hippuroides*- three tiny little stems, will likely loose them soon...

*blyxa japonica*- not a struggle, it grows rather well, and is getting a red tint to it now. My struggle is for some reason this go around it will not stay in the BDBS. I was fine in the 55! I'll get it figured out.

l*udwigia cuba*- So funny to put this one here if you look back a couple pages, but right before making the transfer from the 55 to the 75 this plant was large, but in rough shape. It is like one day it hit a wall. Now I am left with about three little stems that only have the top inch looking anything like a healthy plant. I'll be honest, I am quite shocked to see this after the fantastic transition from emersed, and the massive size growth.

*bacopa colorata*- I have about 5 stems that are growing well, but the tops consistently have BGA, and the lower leaves getting some green algae. 

As for the new plants the Blyxa alternifolia is putting off new growth, but seems to be melting a bit as well. All others it is too soon to tell. New growth is happening, no doubt about it, but I am only 5 days in with them.

Also, the above photo was with a completely different bulb arraignment, and one that I am enjoying quite a bit:

Back to Front

ZooMed Flora Sun
Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax 10K
ZooMed Flora Sun

To Burr's point in the Share Your Bulb thread, this makes the BDBS look jet black, while also having good green and red pop. Will not be a forever solution, but enjoying it for the time being.


----------



## Hendy8888

Tank is looking great! I'll miss the kimberly under your LED's though, always liked the colour of it. Also thanks for giving me the itch to get the bulb stash out, always fun to change up the look once and a while.


----------



## vraev

Looks fantastic. So clean and algae free.


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Tank is looking great! I'll miss the kimberly under your LED's though, always liked the colour of it. Also thanks for giving me the itch to get the bulb stash out, always fun to change up the look once and a while.


You know, it is kind of funny. These past few years I have been chasing some color that I was not able to attain with the LED's, however the growth I did get on the Pogo K. was unique. Really was a beautiful green color with a slight purple to the new growth. I am glad people enjoyed it as much as I did, but I am also excited for the different mix I can get now. I remember early back in the journal someone made the comment it was a 'sea of green'. I suppose I am pretty far from that now!

The change was pretty quick. Here is LED growth:



















And here it is a week or so into the T5HO:



















And I would say now it has even more of a red hue to it (I suspect it is a mix between how it grows now, and how my eyes perceive it with the bulb combo).

Also- I suppose my avatar picture shows a different way it grew from over a year ago as well. This is an interesting plant I have seen grown a few way in my tanks now. Thanks for pointing this out. It has been interesting to look at old pictures!



vraev said:


> Looks fantastic. So clean and algae free.


Thank you, but don't let a FTS from a couple feet away fool you- there absolutely is some algae in this tank. Right now I get a weekly dust on the glass that I clean off at water change time. You can also see the rocks are starting to grow it, which typically I welcome it (I tried keeping them clean in the 55, but ultimately embraced it and it looks pretty good). A few of the species are having their older leaves develop a thicker green algae on them. Perhaps the bump in PO4 will help this?


----------



## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> You know, it is kind of funny. These past few years I have been chasing some color that I was not able to attain with the LED's, however the growth I did get on the Pogo K. was unique. Really was a beautiful green color with a slight purple to the new growth. I am glad people enjoyed it as much as I did, but I am also excited for the different mix I can get now. I remember early back in the journal someone made the comment it was a 'sea of green'. I suppose I am pretty far from that now!
> 
> The change was pretty quick. Here is LED growth:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is a week or so into the T5HO:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I would say now it has even more of a red hue to it (I suspect it is a mix between how it grows now, and how my eyes perceive it



I also notice the size of the leaves, much thicker and growing closer together.

This is a plant that if you keep topping and replanting just grows bigger and bigger. Stem gets really thick and the crown follows. Every now and then I trim and leave the stumps on a couple, this brings in 2-3 smaller stems which over time will continue to grow.



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## Greggz

Yeah that color looks better on the Pogo K.

My guess is you see more color on other plants, and better color separation in general between plants.

All in all I think this has been a very good upgrade for you....both tank size and lights.

Looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.


----------



## Grobbins48

Something just caught my eye... the Hygrophila kompakt was trimmed back to just my new growth this past weekend. Now, all the new growth from the past few days is a darkish red. 

Two different pictures below to show this. I am sure it has to do with the lighting I am running, but thought it was interesting and wanted to share!

You can also see the blyxa alternifolia is showing some new growth, so hopeful there!

Also, some GBA creeping up on a few stems, so I'll treat with Ultra Life today.


----------



## jeffkrol

Grobbins48 said:


> Something just caught my eye... the Hygrophila kompakt was trimmed back to just my new growth this past weekend. Now, all the new growth from the past few days is a darkish red.
> 
> Two different pictures below to show this. I am sure it has to do with the lighting I am running, but thought it was interesting and wanted to share!



Yea bronzing is fairly normal under high light and possibly high blue spectrum..











Wait till it changes from "compacta" to "gigantea"..


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Something just caught my eye... the Hygrophila kompakt was trimmed back to just my new growth this past weekend. Now, all the new growth from the past few days is a darkish red.


I think it's a combination of the higher light and being trimmed back.

In my experience, when you trim/thin it down and replant the plantlets, the leaves tend to lay flatter and soak up the light and you get some nice red highlights. When the plants grow and get thick with leaves again, it tends to grow more vertical and the leaves are bunched together, and it's more green.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> I think it's a combination of the higher light and being trimmed back.
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience, when you trim/thin it down and replant the plantlets, the leaves tend to lay flatter and soak up the light and you get some nice red highlights. When the plants grow and get thick with leaves again, it tends to grow more vertical and the leaves are bunched together, and it's more green.


Good to know, thanks for sharing. Very neat colors right now.


The tank was treated with the ultra Life to hopefully stop the BGA from even becoming an issue. Let's hope I caught it early enough. It is not new to me, the 55 also had a few spots creep here and there, and the bacopa colorata always seems to have a tid bit in the top new growth.

In other news I officially have lost the ludwigia Cuba and limnophila hippuroides.... they were truly at the point of no return, and some leaves even had some BGA creeping in too. Sad day, however it does give me a bit more breathing room not tying to save these two. I think my count is 21 or so species at the moment. 

Did a little surface cleaning of the water, and moved a few things around too.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> It is not new to me, the 55 also had a few spots creep here and there, and the bacopa colorata always seems to have a tid bit in the top new growth.
> 
> Did a little surface cleaning of the water, and moved a few things around too.


At least it's not just me with colorata, always @ the very top!

I am surfacing cleaning too with the new eheim skimmers. >>>
They are running with that German guy auto! :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> At least it's not just me with colorata, always @ the very top!


You guys think that is BGA? I get the same thing with the Colorata, but never really thought about what it was. 

It would be strange, as I don't have it anywhere else in the tank. 

If you dose for it, does it go away? And if so, then stay away? Or do the Colorata tips end up getting it again?

Very, very interesting.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Greggz said:


> You guys think that is BGA? I get the same thing with the Colorata, but never really thought about what it was.
> 
> It would be strange, as I don't have it anywhere else in the tank.
> 
> If you dose for it, does it go away? And if so, then stay away? Or do the Colorata tips end up getting it again?
> 
> Very, very interesting.


For me the tanks with it have the BGA only in the top 2-3 leaves.
Always the newest growth.
If I'm dosing I blow it away with a pipette only to return the next day.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> You guys think that is BGA? I get the same thing with the Colorata, but never really thought about what it was.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be strange, as I don't have it anywhere else in the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> If you dose for it, does it go away? And if so, then stay away? Or do the Colorata tips end up getting it again?
> 
> 
> 
> Very, very interesting.


I have pretty much always had it on The colorata, even after treating in the past. Usually it is just there and nowhere else, however I saw it creep to the ambulia tops of one or two stems, and the few dying plants mentioned above as well. With all the new stems adjusting to my water I really didn't want to risk it spreading. 

I'll keep things updated on if this runs its course and goes away or if it stays/ comes back.


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> For me the tanks with it have the BGA only in the top 2-3 leaves.
> 
> Always the newest growth.
> 
> If I'm dosing I blow it away with a pipette only to return the next day.


This makes me feel a bit better! I am in good company!


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## Maryland Guppy

Note:
During my "algae bomb" I dosed liquid ChemiClean among other unique algaecide cocktails.
The BGA on the tops of colorata was unaffected during all treatment.
Always reappeared the next day or two.
All stems but two were lost to algae infestation.
I've kept another sampling of this plant in the 33G so as to not lose the species.


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## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> This makes me feel a bit better! I am in good company!




+1 to the group...

I see it come and go always on new growth and especially on B. colorata many times increases after I have trimming and tank maintenance... first I thought it was a collection of stuff I had scraped off the glass that settled into the”nooks” then closer inspection has the same look and smell as BGA. After being away for 2 weeks had seen it creep up on substrate and many more plants had it on tips so I hit the tank with chemi-clean... so far it’s been ok, haven’t seen it in the one tank that was dosed... thinking of doing the same to the other tank.


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## Grobbins48

@Asteroid posted some great close up shots a couple days back, which motivated me to finally buy a clip on macro lenses. I have been considering this for a while! It also came with a 120° wide angle lens. 

Here are just two shots for now, after playing with it for 5 minutes. I am sure you all know I'll be posting more soon!


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## Immortal1

I had some of those clip on lenses - now I have to go find them!!!!
Love the Panda Garra pic - thought I was the only one that had some of those fish.


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## Asteroid

@Grobbins48 Those look great!


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> I had some of those clip on lenses - now I have to go find them!!!!
> Love the Panda Garra pic - thought I was the only one that had some of those fish.


Yes, go find them! You have some fantastic variety in bows, and those shots would be amazing. The panda garra is such an awesome fish. I have four of them in this tank, and watching them interact with each other and the environment it so interesting!



Asteroid said:


> @Grobbins48 Those look great!


Thank you. The clip on is a 15x macro lens. Getting to focus is a bit tough- they need to be super close to the glass. This also make it difficult to capture the entire fish in the frame- perhaps a 10x would have worked better for aquarium photos. The rainbows are curious to they get close- but I need to use a 1/125 shutter speed with how quick they are. This puts my ISO around 400 on the phone.

I'll try using manual focus next time I get it out to play. Either way, still takes 10+ photos to each good one.


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## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> Either way, still takes 10+ photos to each good one.


Sounds like the same thing that happens when someone takes my photo! :laugh2:


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> I had some of those clip on lenses - now I have to go find them!!!!


Me too.

I remember I bought one, but I could never get a really good picture.

Seeing these may make me rethink. 
@Grobbins48 which kit did you get??


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Me too.
> 
> I remember I bought one, but I could never get a really good picture.
> 
> Seeing these may make me rethink.
> 
> @Grobbins48 which kit did you get??


Here is the kit I picked up. Fantastic review and good comparison somewhere online.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AYY840Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here is the other one I considered. Same manufacturer, but the Macro lens is a 10x vs. 15x (I went with 15). I am not sure if the 10x would be better for the aquarium application- still need to play around more with my 15x. Focusing is just tough, need the fish to be really close. A manual focus is probably the best vs. the camera trying to auto focus.

https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Wide-A...HR55KXF2ZH6&psc=1&refRID=A4GD6M645HR55KXF2ZH6


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Here is the kit I picked up. Fantastic review and good comparison somewhere online.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AYY840Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Here is the other one I considered. Same manufacturer, but the Macro lens is a 10x vs. 15x (I went with 15). I am not sure if the 10x would be better for the aquarium application- still need to play around more with my 15x. Focusing is just tough, need the fish to be really close. A manual focus is probably the best vs. the camera trying to auto focus.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Wide-A...HR55KXF2ZH6&psc=1&refRID=A4GD6M645HR55KXF2ZH6


Interesting.

Glad you are trying this out. Might be a good topic for more discussion.

So far it sounds like getting the right macro lens is the tricky part.

I'll wait to dive in until you get some more time to experiment with it. Maybe the 10x would be better?
@Asteroid any thoughts??


----------



## Grobbins48

Few more...


----------



## Asteroid

Those look good. 

I"m not that familiar with the clip on macro lenses, but if you can't get the full fish in the frame because it requires you to be very close, it's either the sensor on the phone isn't strong enough when your further away or it's the way the lens is designed. Have you tried taking a photo outside or in good light inside and see if you could be further away. If yes, then it's a lighting issue. 

The cell phones also use a very wide aperture for light purposes (usually like 1.6 - 1.9) so that's why your seeing only the head in focus. I don't know if you could change that on your phone, but again if you did you would probably need more light to obtain at least a 1/100 shutter speed to catch a moving fish clearly. With a regular macro lens you could be far away and still get a macro shot since the lens itself has a much long focal length. So it opens up more possibilities.


----------



## Greggz

Asteroid said:


> I"m not that familiar with the clip on macro lenses, but if you can't get the full fish in the frame because it requires you to be very close, it's either the sensor on the phone isn't strong enough when your further away or it's the way the lens is designed.


Interesting that was my concern, not getting the full fish in the frame and the depth of field.

Probably will take some experimenting with different lenses and settings to fine tune things. 

Keep the experiments going @Grobbins48. I like where you are going and those are some great pics. 

Let me know if you have any thoughts on a different lens you think might work.......I've been known to experiment a bit myself and may have to get one.


----------



## Grobbins48

New project: Dosing pump. More details on the whole setup later this week, but some thoughts.

I am historically extremely inconsistent with micro dosing. With this new tank I am trying to keep things as stable as I can. With that, I figured to go with a dosing pump and daily micro dosing. This way, even when out of town the dosing continues and keep stable.

Here is my thought on weekly values (7 days worth of micros)

Fe 0.4500
Mn 0.1350
B 0.0900
Zn 0.1200
Mo 0.0045
Cu	0.0075
Ni 0.0015

When breaking this down into a daily dose, here is what the pump would add daily

Fe 0.0643
Mn 0.0193
B 0.0129
Zn 0.0171
Mo 0.0006
Cu	0.0011
Ni 0.0002

I would achieve this by adding either 1 or 2mL per 10 gallons to the tank. Here is what I am trying to decide... 1 or 2 mL/10 gallon? My initial gut instinct told me to go with 2mL/ 10 gallons. This way if I wanted to increase or decrease dosing during a given batch of micros, then I can simply do the math and add or subtract a few mL from the 14mL (70 gallons) that the 2mL/10 gallons per day would give me.

With my DIY dosing containers (more to come on this soon) holding about 600mL of solution, I would make batch every 6 weeks or so. I feel like this is quite often compared to what I do now, however it also give the most flexibility. Only other concern is when making this daily solution it will only tank 11mg of Ni, so that will be fun to measure out (I do the put a quarter on the scale thing after taring it, helps with the sensitivity)!

Anyone have feedback or thoughts on the dosing values, going daily, or dosing size? Always accepting input!

Bump:


Greggz said:


> Interesting that was my concern, not getting the full fish in the frame and the depth of field.
> 
> Probably will take some experimenting with different lenses and settings to fine tune things.
> 
> Keep the experiments going @Grobbins48. I like where you are going and those are some great pics.
> 
> Let me know if you have any thoughts on a different lens you think might work.......I've been known to experiment a bit myself and may have to get one.


The focusing has been challenging. I would suspect that a 10x (the one I posted above) would work much better to get the entire fish in the shot. @Greggz Did you ever find your kit? How about you @Immortal1 ?


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> The focusing has been challenging. I would suspect that a 10x (the one I posted above) would work much better to get the entire fish in the shot. @Greggz Did you ever find your kit?


I looked but I have no idea where I put it.

Still interests me though. Was browsing what's available earlier today.

I actually just took a few pics with Galaxy Note using the 2x optical zoom (F 2.4). Came out pretty decent I think. I'll post in my thread and you can let me know what you think.


----------



## Squisher

Grobbins48 said:


> New project: Dosing pump. More details on the whole setup later this week, but some thoughts.
> 
> I am historically extremely inconsistent with micro dosing. With this new tank I am trying to keep things as stable as I can. With that, I figured to go with a dosing pump and daily micro dosing. This way, even when out of town the dosing continues and keep stable.
> 
> Here is my thought on weekly values (7 days worth of micros)
> 
> Fe 0.4500
> Mn 0.1350
> B 0.0900
> Zn 0.1200
> Mo 0.0045
> Cu	0.0075
> Ni 0.0015
> 
> When breaking this down into a daily dose, here is what the pump would add daily
> 
> Fe 0.0643
> Mn 0.0193
> B 0.0129
> Zn 0.0171
> Mo 0.0006
> Cu	0.0011
> Ni 0.0002
> 
> I would achieve this by adding either 1 or 2mL per 10 gallons to the tank. Here is what I am trying to decide... 1 or 2 mL/10 gallon? My initial gut instinct told me to go with 2mL/ 10 gallons. This way if I wanted to increase or decrease dosing during a given batch of micros, then I can simply do the math and add or subtract a few mL from the 14mL (70 gallons) that the 2mL/10 gallons per day would give me.
> 
> With my DIY dosing containers (more to come on this soon) holding about 600mL of solution, I would make batch every 6 weeks or so. I feel like this is quite often compared to what I do now, however it also give the most flexibility. Only other concern is when making this daily solution it will only tank 11mg of Ni, so that will be fun to measure out (I do the put a quarter on the scale thing after taring it, helps with the sensitivity)!
> 
> Anyone have feedback or thoughts on the dosing values, going daily, or dosing size? Always accepting input!


I'll be eagerly following this and look forward to seeing what you do for dosing containers. I am ordering the jebao dosing pump which I think is what you're using too? I was considering the reservoirs that Amazon (.ca) links up with it but am holding off until I see what you've come up with.


----------



## Grobbins48

Squisher said:


> I'll be eagerly following this and look forward to seeing what you do for dosing containers. I am ordering the jebao dosing pump which I think is what you're using too? I was considering the reservoirs that Amazon (.ca) links up with it but am holding off until I see what you've come up with.


Sneak peek is Voss water bottles (glass). You can see the tops of them in the left corner. Not my original idea, I found it here:

https://reefdudes.com/equipment/6-diy-dosing-containers.html

Just have water in them right now for testing purpose. Waiting on graduated cylinder to get here, and a few other things to compete this setup.

Pump is the Jebao.


----------



## Hendy8888

Squisher said:


> I'll be eagerly following this and look forward to seeing what you do for dosing containers. I am ordering the jebao dosing pump which I think is what you're using too? I was considering the reservoirs that Amazon (.ca) links up with it but am holding off until I see what you've come up with.


Voss bottles is where it's at, 800 ml glass. Nothing too fancy.


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Voss bottles is where it's at, 800 ml glass. Nothing too fancy.


Yes! Exactly!

What are you dosing? Macro and micro? Anything else?


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> Yes! Exactly!
> 
> What are you dosing? Macro and micro? Anything else?


Macro + Mg and Micro - Ni, get 2 sets of bottles that way you can make up a new batch with a lid that doesn't leak.


----------



## Squisher

Fantastic. Thanks for sharing that. Makes way more sense than an expensive reservoir that would be hard to put in and pullout to fill. Also thinking it would be good to shake up the solutions once in awhile. Not to mention saving a bunch of money too. I was just planning to use a glass measuring cup any particular reason for the graduated cylinder? Also might ask before finalizing my order what you are using to mount the lines on the aquarium? I was looking again at the fancy acrylic holder they recommend and had planned on using airline check valves too.


----------



## Grobbins48

Squisher said:


> Fantastic. Thanks for sharing that. Makes way more sense than an expensive reservoir that would be hard to put in and pullout to fill. Also thinking it would be good to shake up the solutions once in awhile. Not to mention saving a bunch of money too. I was just planning to use a glass measuring cup any particular reason for the graduated cylinder? Also might ask before finalizing my order what you are using to mount the lines on the aquarium? I was looking again at the fancy acrylic holder they recommend and had planned on using airline check valves too.


I'll have more detail on this mounting tomorrow likely. When the parts arrive. As to the the graduated cylinder, it is much more accurate and precise than using, say, cooking measuring cups. When dealing with only dosing a few mL at time, I want to get as close as possible to the true measurement. 

In other news, solo Super flora with LED strip lights:


----------



## Grobbins48

I have some catching up to do on TPT. Did a big trim, the tank needed it badly. Here is before and after. Also switched out bulbs to brighten things up a bit. Dosing pump update to come. Just finishing setup.

ForaSun/SuperFlora/PureBloom/PurePar/ForaSun (last night, white balance was a bit off, hard to capture this one)











FloraSun/SuperFlora/PureBloom/PurePar/10,000K/FloraSun (auto white balance, brightness turned down)


----------



## chayos00

Just read through about 300 posts over the last two or three days on your thread alone! Talk about feeling left behind LOL

Congrats on the new tank setup! You got me thinking of my stand that's built for a 6'x2' footprint and I'm only using 6'x18" for my 125g.... dang lack of money to get a 180g or 220-240g! LOL Also using the Jeabo pump for a good year or so now with no issues.


----------



## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> I have some catching up to do on TPT. Did a big trim, the tank needed it badly. Here is before and after. Also switched out bulbs to brighten things up a bit. Dosing pump update to come. Just finishing setup.
> 
> ForaSun/SuperFlora/PureBloom/PurePar/ForaSun (last night, white balance was a bit off, hard to capture this one)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FloraSun/SuperFlora/PureBloom/PurePar/10,000K/FloraSun (auto white balance, brightness turned down)




That additional 10K bulb really brightened things up, also washed out the reds a bit and the greens do look better, still looks great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> Just read through about 300 posts over the last two or three days on your thread alone! Talk about feeling left behind LOL
> 
> Congrats on the new tank setup! You got me thinking of my stand that's built for a 6'x2' footprint and I'm only using 6'x18" for my 125g.... dang lack of money to get a 180g or 220-240g! LOL Also using the Jeabo pump for a good year or so now with no issues.


Good to see you here! Looking forward to an update from you soon!


vvDO said:


> That additional 10K bulb really brightened things up, also washed out the reds a bit and the greens do look better, still looks great!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I didn't like it. Tried, but lasted about an hour ha! 

Here is what I have now:

FloraSun/PureBloom/SuperFlora/PurePar/FloraSun

More purple, which I don't mind- photo is a bit more purple than real life. Greens pop and reds are stronger.


----------



## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> Good to see you here! Looking forward to an update from you soon!I didn't like it. Tried, but lasted about an hour ha!
> 
> Here is what I have now:
> 
> FloraSun/PureBloom/SuperFlora/PurePar/FloraSun
> 
> More purple, which I don't mind- photo is a bit more purple than real life. Greens pop and reds are stronger.




Yes, much better!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## celticfrog42

Looks great!


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## Grobbins48

Few things to update on at this time.

*Dosing Pump*

I decided to use the following for daily dosing into the tank. I made up a 2mL/ 10 gallon batch, so with daily dosing will last ~6 weeks. 

Weekly Totals:
Fe 0.4500
Mn 0.1350
B 0.0900
Zn 0.1200
Mo 0.0045
Cu 0.0075
Ni 0.0015

When breaking this down into a daily dose, here is what the pump would add daily

Fe 0.0643
Mn 0.0193
B 0.0129
Zn 0.0171
Mo 0.0006
Cu 0.0011
Ni 0.0002

Also, a topic that may be widely debated- but I am going to give it a try for the time being is daily Met 14 dosing. Algae is not bad at all in this tank, but I do get some creeping around. I have played with flow a bit, and shading of the plants. I am going to try this and see if there is any noticeable effect on the tank. I believe I set up for 8mL/ day, which really is not a lot at all for a 70 gallon system. We will see....

To actually get the doses into the tank I used the following fittings and bent them (with much effort). Just duct tape to hold for now, not an elegant solution but works. Found these on Amazon.





















*BGA*

The UltraLife seems to have done the trick... for now. We will see if it comes back over time, but no signs of it on the tops of any plants right now

*Lighting*

Running around 95ish PAR. What I have been playing around with is the actual positioning of the bulbs in the hood. All this time I was set on having the Red bulb dead center, but moving around has proven to be useful!

Back to Front

AgroMaxPure Bloom
ZooMed Flora Sun
Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax 10K
ZooMed Flora Sun

If I sub the 10K for a 6400K things get quite yellow. As soon as BRS or some other site has a sale on bulbs I'll grab a couple different blue/ actinic ones to try out. I did play with the 3000K, but really need a stronger blue bulb than the 10K or PurePar to make it work for me personally.










*Plants*

About half of the new plants I trimmed down to new growth only earlier this week. The old growth completely gave up, as expected- but new growth is looking good. Some are taking longer than other to settle in, and once I have no bubbles on the glass I'll go through and do a plant by plant update.

*Other stuff*

Did some filter foam replacing, as well as the impeller on the SunSun 303B. The filter would be quite at times, but at other times would get quite loud. So far the new impeller is working quite well. The old was was over 2 years old at this point.

I am degassing some tap water, as when the pH has been hitting 6.4 the rainbows gather in a group at the bottom and are not very active. I bumped my shutoff point to 6.5. I also turned down the flowmeter, as the pH was dropping not only super fast, but clicking the solenoid on and off multiple times a day. I am going to see if I can flirt with keeping it right at 6.5 - 6.6 range. Another day or two of degassing and we will see what the 'natural' pH of my water is. My guess is 7.9 or 8.0... We will see!

The Macro lens is pretty much a bust. the 15X is just too difficult to work with in an aquarium full of fast moving rainbows. Perhaps a shrimp tank? Good new is that my phone still takes great pictures without. If anyone experiments with an alternative macro lens I would love to hear about it/ see the pictures.

More pictures to come soon!


----------



## Greggz

Nice update!

I am the same way with 6500k bulbs.....just too much yellow to my eye.

Will be interesting to see if there is any difference with Metricide. My guess is no, but who knows maybe will be different for you.

And good idea to check degassed value again. Tap KH values can fluctuate over time, so good to know what you are dealing with. With my dosed RO water, my KH is rock solid, and yet I still check mine every so often just to be sure. 

I also appreciate the update on the macro lens. I held off buying one until I heard more from you, and now I am glad I did.


----------



## Squisher

Good stuff. I got my jebao pump and all the stuff to set it up(I think). Even collected the voss bottles as recommended in this thread. I broke down and ordered this line holder https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07V8765ZX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 to hold the dosing lines on the rim of the aquarium. Seems pretty slick but grossly overpriced for what it really is. I won't have mine going for a few days yet, looking forward to hearing how yours works out for you.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Nice update!
> 
> Will be interesting to see if there is any difference with Metricide. My guess is no, but who knows maybe will be different for you.


I agree- my hypothesis is no impact, however, in the spirit on experimentation I figure I can play around with this. The fact that I had the Metracide sitting around, and now have the dosing pump. Perhaps this can shed some more light on the topic, with extremely consistent dosing... Who knows? Only time will tell here!




Squisher said:


> Good stuff. I got my jebao pump and all the stuff to set it up(I think). Even collected the voss bottles as recommended in this thread. I broke down and ordered this line holder https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07V8765ZX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 to hold the dosing lines on the rim of the aquarium. Seems pretty slick but grossly overpriced for what it really is. I won't have mine going for a few days yet, looking forward to hearing how yours works out for you.


I was initially thinking of something like that as well, but with the giant rim on the 75, and the fact that I have a hood, I went with the stainless steel 'U' pieces. Looking forwards to seeing where yours goes from here too. The one thing I did do for calibration Was set the length of tubing and the head height I would be using. This way the calibration cycle accounts for all the line/ back pressure there will be. It was interesting the difference between the pump head 1 and 2. The computer stops at 250 rotations, which was about 98mL for me on the first pump. The second pump I had to stop at about 189 rotations, which gave me 100mL. Moral of the story here is defiantly calibrate! After I calibrated them I did test it by setting a 10mL dose for 1 min past the current time and measuring it (if that makes sense). I wanted to be sure the 100mL calibration was correct, as some online said they calibrated to 50mL. For me 100mL calibration was spot on.


----------



## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> I agree- my hypothesis is no impact, however, in the spirit on experimentation I figure I can play around with this. The fact that I had the Metracide sitting around, and now have the dosing pump. Perhaps this can shed some more light on the topic, with extremely consistent dosing... Who knows? Only time will tell here!


I tried different strengths of it and didn't really notice a difference... Went like half strength (compared to excel) and even double dosing of it. Granted it was BBA I was fighting, but not sure if it would make a difference for anything else. I was using my Jeabo dosing pump for a daily dose.


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## Squisher

I see you just have your micros and the metracide hooked up to the doser. How are you administering your macros? Do you plan to use the doser for macros too?


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## Grobbins48

Squisher said:


> I see you just have your micros and the metracide hooked up to the doser. How are you administering your macros? Do you plan to use the doser for macros too?


As of right now my plan is to keep macros front loaded for the week after the water change (dry dose by weight into a solo cup, dissolve in water, and pour into the tank). I want to see if I can notice any impact from daily micros, then I may try a daily macro dosing in the future. 

My thought is that front loading macros has worked well for nearly two years for me, and my most inconsistent aspect of dosing has been micros.


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## TheUnseenHand

Sump + Doser = Elegant. Just sayin' :grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

TheUnseenHand said:


> Sump + Doser = Elegant. Just sayin' :grin2:


Oh I would LOVE a sump- Just have not made that jump yet. Actually the canisters have been better in this setup- specifically with the cabinet being 18" deep, as well as each canister being in its own container vs. one massive rubbermaid bin. This way I can just pull a single container out for service with no issues or worry of spilling. The things we learn to make life simple through experience.


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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> Oh I would LOVE a sump- Just have not made that jump yet. Actually the canisters have been better in this setup- specifically with the cabinet being 18" deep, as well as each canister being in its own container vs. one massive rubbermaid bin. This way I can just pull a single container out for service with no issues or worry of spilling. The things we learn to make life simple through experience.


Yeah a triple container like mine is a pain for different mixes, as you can't clean one without doing the others. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

Update on a few of the plants and how they are doing

*penthorum sedoides*

New growth has been fantastic. I had to uproot and replant, as all the original growth from when I got the plant essentially melted back. There are a couple small offshoots, so all signs look as if this will be a keeper that should do well.










*Hyptis lorentziana*

This has been a solid performer, and really has not missed a beat since joining the tank. Really enjoying the super dark red colors on the new leaves. No branching or new stems, but the original ones have been solid.










*Blyxa alternifolia*

This plant has plenty of new growth, branching, and even flowers, however the old growth quickly attracted algae and melted back. This past weekend I did a large uproot of 70% of it, trim back and replant. I tried to leave a couple stems that seemed rooted to give a change to branch off after trimming.










*gratiola viscidula*

Super slow grower, but I am loving this plant. The old growth did not really adjust, and is attracting algae, but I am getting new, clean growth. I did trim back a few 'taller' stems and leave the roots planted to try and promote branching. Hope this one can clean itself up!










*Limnophila belem*

So far this one has not become a snack for the cherry barbs! Pretty excited there. It has taken a while to adjust to the water (common theme here...), but I am seeing some strong new growth on the tops, as well as some offshoot at the base. Old growth looks pretty much dead and covered in light algae, so later this week I may cut it at the base, keeping the shoots in tact, and replant the tops.










More updates on some plants to come soon!


----------



## Grobbins48

Pogo K has never looked better. Absolutly love the colors that are coming out in this one!










I found a piece of hygrophila pinnatifida floating around the tank! Glued it here and hope it can make it. I always wanted to try to being some deep colors out of it.










Ludwigia super red mini is growing, but catching some green algae. I have not trimmed this one yet, as I have been hoping to let some of the offshoots develop more. Hopefully by this weekend when I need to trim it some of those offshoots will be good enough to go on their own. It is interesting, there are a ton of shoots, but they are super tiny (mini I suppose... ha!).










ludwigia senegalensis is starting to come in strong. Some good offshoots and color. Looking forward to propagating this one more. A trim is likely this weekend.


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## Greggz

No question the color of the plants has really improved since going to T5.

Like you said, the Pogo K. (and many others) has never looked better.

Very, very interesting transition. Keep the updates coming.


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## fortyneck

Super nice work Grobbins48!!! roud:


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## burr740

Great updates! I was 2 weeks behind it seems. Plants look great. Yeah Gratiola will come out of its funk soon judging by the new growth.


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## Grobbins48

This past week has been interesting. Last night(returning from a trip) I noticed the tank had some fantastic growth, however it also was the worst GDA I have had since setting up the 75. I quickly wondered if the daily micro dosing let the plants better utilize all nutrients, and thus depleted the NO3 and PO4 in the tank. Testing for these compounds I discovered normal levels (NO3 30-40 ppm and PO4 5-10 ppm). The PAR is still around that 100 mark or so, maybe a bit less, so no massive change there. I really was scratching my head at this one...

Then I looked back at my records and realized, for some reason, I did not dose any MgSO4 into the tank after water change last week. That equates to about 7-10 ppm less of Mg. Now I wonder if this change in Mg may have spiked the GDA outbreak? I would love to hear from others on your thoughts to this.

Water change will be later today or tomorrow, but I did toss a bit of MgSO4 into the tank last night.


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## Immortal1

Will be interesting to see how this turns out. GDA has been my nemesis for a very long time. In my case, my tap water has roughly 60ppm CA which results in 20ppm MG (based on GH). So obviously I have plenty of both
Would find it hard to believe there is a magic amount of MG by itself. As a ratio to other, that I could believe. But I would think it is more of a general ratio and not something specific. 
In looking at the Share your dosing thread, I see CA levels ranging from 7-65ppm and MG levels ranging from 4-19ppm with resulting ratios from 2.1 to 16.3. Hmmmm.
So, back to your issue... I don't have the magic answer :-(


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> So, back to your issue... I don't have the magic answer :-(


I was counting a quick magic... bummer! Ha!>


----------



## Grobbins48

Not much of an update, but wanted to share the before and after picture. Moved some things around to try and position better for colors and growth. Pulled out about 6-8 stems of the pogo k and added them to the low tech tank. They were starting to crowd things out.

Before:










After:


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## Immortal1

Really liking the after pic! I will have to post a pic of my Pogo K tomorrow - starting to look a lot more like yours


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## Grobbins48

I did an incremental mid-week water change yesterday...

Noticed the tank looking kind of... cloudy? This led to a few tweaks, mainly that MET 14 has been shut off. I was not dosing a lot, however, I saw no positive effects on GDA, and only have experience negative effects (this cloudy water). I experience this type of water before when dosing MET 14 at higher levels in my 55 gallon take. @burr740 pointed out that overdosing may induce a bloom of bacteria/ kill off some of the nitrifying bacteria. Not 100% certain if this is the case, but shutting off as I see no positives right now.

I doped the Micro dosing from 14mL/day to 10mL/day. Reason: I am historically extremely inconsistent with micro dosing, so essentially I went from 1/3 of my target levels weekly to 100% (I typically dosed one time a week- hence buying an autodoser....). Not a massive decrease in micros, but we will see what happens.

Lighting is swapped up a bit. Was feeling to yellow to me. I am about 85PAR at substrate, which is good by me at this time. Here is what I am running today:

Pure Bloom
Flora Sun
Pure Par
10K
Flora Sun

Give a crisp color, that still pops the reds. If I drop the Pure Bloom PAR drops by ~8-10 at the substrate, but the reds really disappear. I'll have pics of both later when lights are on and there is no glare.


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## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> This led to a few tweaks, mainly that MET 14 has been shut off. I was not dosing a lot, however, I saw no positive effects on GDA, and only have experience negative effects (this cloudy water). I experience this type of water before when dosing MET 14 at higher levels in my 55 gallon take.


Thanks for reminding me... I've been meaning to drop back my Met14 dosing, going to adjust my dosing pump now :wink2:


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## Grobbins48

To show the combo above:










And the same but taken out the pure bloom (red). Only 4 bulbs.


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## Grobbins48

My algae pearls better than yours!!! [emoji1787][emoji1787]









Then again, my myrio red stem pearls pretty strong too!


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## celticfrog42

So beautiful! Nice work!


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## Grobbins48

I'll end up having a more detailed update this weekend, as I feel a few changes have made a positive impact. 

I did a pretty large trim and rearranging to clean and clear things up. I feel like I am getting somewhere now with the groupings.


----------



## Grobbins48

One thing I noticed again, as I have before, is that I cannot stand the API NO3 test kits. I'll order a different one up this week.

Anyways, my NO3 was bright, deep red. This made me think my NO3 dosing has been a bit high. I decided to lower my target dosing to 20ppm NO3 and leave everything else the same. Running just over a week this way and wow, the tank has vastly improved. Noticeably less GDA, to the point where the panda garra's are actually cleaning off the rocks to almost nothing! 

With all that said here is where I am at right now.


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## Immortal1

@Grobbins48 - can't say enough good things about the Salifert NO3 kit. One of the best features of the kit is if you look at the supplied cup straight down you get a 1 to 1 reading. If you look thru the cup from the side it magnifies the result 10 times. VERY helpful!

Also, FYI - pretty sure my GDA algae issue that I have been dealing with for a long time was due to excessive amounts of NO3.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Anyways, my NO3 was bright, deep red. This made me think my NO3 dosing has been a bit high. I decided to lower my target dosing to 20ppm NO3 and leave everything else the same. Running just over a week this way and wow, the tank has vastly improved. Noticeably less GDA, to the point where the panda garra's are actually cleaning off the rocks to almost nothing!


Will be curious to see the effects after a few weeks or a month. When you increase dosing, it takes time for the water column (max accumulation) to catch up. Same thing on the way down. It will take several weeks to actually get to the new target. Could be at some point plants will run out of reserves.....but then again, maybe not. Will be interesting to follow, and looking forward to seeing what happens. Just remember you may not see the real effect for some time yet.

I've actually been doing the same, but not down as low as you (yet). Have taken my target NO3 from 36 ppm SLOWLY down to 30 ppm over the past five weeks. Going to keep it here for at least several weeks, then maybe go even lower. My gut tells me at some point some stems will suffer, but like you, will just have to wait and see.

Bump:


Immortal1 said:


> If you look thru the cup from the side it magnifies the result 10 times. VERY helpful!


What? Now I have to walk right over and grab my kit and try this out.

This forum is the gift that keeps on giving!!:grin2:


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## Grobbins48

@Immortal1 I am going to grab one of those kits. Good to know it has a strong following here on TPT! Oh, btw, I love the cows! Fantastic crossover post you had there!
@Greggz I feel like I'll need to get back up on NO3 in a few weeks, but to your point in order to lower things a bit quicker I did a larger drop. The GDA is the most noticable, and instant change. Some of the plants new growth, such as ludwigia senegalensis is looking better.

Time will tell- but as always things are ever changing!


----------



## Grobbins48

Cross post from share your bulb:

I think I found a combo that makes me happy for a while with a reasonable PAR
for the time being (90 ish at substrate).

Pure Bloom
Flora Sun
Pure Par
10K
Flora Sun

Picture of tank is quite true to colors I see


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Will be curious to see the effects after a few weeks or a month. When you increase dosing, it takes time for the water column (max accumulation) to catch up. Same thing on the way down. It will take several weeks to actually get to the new target. Could be at some point plants will run out of reserves.....but then again, maybe not. Will be interesting to follow, and looking forward to seeing what happens. Just remember you may not see the real effect for some time yet.
> 
> I've actually been doing the same, but not down as low as you (yet). Have taken my target NO3 from 36 ppm SLOWLY down to 30 ppm over the past five weeks. Going to keep it here for at least several weeks, then maybe go even lower. My gut tells me at some point some stems will suffer, but like you, will just have to wait and see.
> 
> Bump:
> What? Now I have to walk right over and grab my kit and try this out.
> 
> This forum is the gift that keeps on giving!!:grin2:



Just an FYI on what I have been doing. 1/4 tank water + 3/4 distilled water. Take your sample from the diluted mix. Do the test per instructions. After the 3 minutes, look thru the side of the cup and compare to the chart. In my case, the chart says 25ppm. Note, this is 10 times greater than the actual amount. 25 / 10 is 2.5ppm. But because it was diluted 1:4, you multiply your 2.5 by 4 and you get 10ppm. It's actually a lot easier than what the typed version sounds like.


Using various dilution methods, you should be able to accurately determine the amount of NO3 regardless what the actual source concentration is.


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Just an FYI on what I have been doing. 1/4 tank water + 3/4 distilled water. Take your sample from the diluted mix. Do the test per instructions. After the 3 minutes, look thru the side of the cup and compare to the chart. In my case, the chart says 25ppm. Note, this is 10 times greater than the actual amount. 25 / 10 is 2.5ppm. But because it was diluted 1:4, you multiply your 2.5 by 4 and you get 10ppm. It's actually a lot easier than what the typed version sounds like.


Glad you cleared that up. 

I looked from the side and it was reading quite high....but only about 25 ppm from above. Didn't catch the part about the 10x magnification.

Will have to try the diluted mix method out tomorrow.


----------



## Grobbins48

@Immortal1 I just ordered the kit, thanks for the details. Seems like it can be quite versatile!

I suppose I could always do the 1/4 ratio with the API kit, but after reading @Greggz experiences documented in his journal again from a few years again, I think the Salifert is the way to go!


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## Streetwise

All of your forum friends know you will keep trying different bulb combos.


----------



## Grobbins48

Streetwise said:


> All of your forum friends know you will keep trying different bulb combos.


Everyone is getting to know me too well. Just too much fun playing with different combos! 

Next time I see blues on sale I'll grab one. I'll let that be my sign to try something new!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Next time I see blues on sale I'll grab one. I'll let that be my sign to try something new!


Honestly I could tell little difference between actinic blue and something like ATI or Giesemann Purples when mixed with red/flora/daylight bulbs.

But that is just me, and we have all have different perceptions of color.


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## Streetwise

Here is an idea:

Use some gaffers tape to secure a tripod.

Take some videos/photos from the same spot, with each light combo you try.

Make some sort of transformation/time-lapse so you can scrub through it and see what you like.

Cheers


----------



## Greggz

Streetwise said:


> Here is an idea:
> 
> Use some gaffers tape to secure a tripod.
> 
> Take some videos/photos from the same spot, with each light combo you try.
> 
> Make some sort of transformation/time-lapse so you can scrub through it and see what you like.


This has been done many times here. I did it a few times in my journal, and others have too, like @Grobbins48 here in his journal. No question color of light has a huge influence on our perception of a tank.

The tricky part is dialing that in. Not as easy as it sounds.

Here's a couple examples from my journal. And if you go back in this journal, many examples too.


https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1020497-greggz-120g-rainbow-fish-tank-new-video-12-28-2019-a-197.html#post11292173

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1020497-greggz-120g-rainbow-fish-tank-new-video-12-28-2019-a-171.html#post11220149

And a complete thread devoted to it too......

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1293429-share-your-bulb-combo-thread.html#post11219711


----------



## Streetwise

I've enjoyed those threads. The camera consistency is vey nice. Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Grobbins48

A few thoughts:

When I started up the dosing pump, I put my Micros at 100% of my target... This turned out to be quite the mistake to make, as I have historically be extremely inconsistent with micro dosing- probably getting 1/3 of my target dose weekly, on average, and only after the water change.

I am pretty sure this is what led to the stunting of the following (painful... I know...)


ludwigia peruensis
pogostemon kimberly
Ludwigia senegalensis
Limnophila belem

Overall, all plants seemed to suffer. This has led me to turning daily micros WAY down to 7mL/ day from 14mL/ day. Only been a couple days of this so far, but I see progress in a positive direction.

I also had some hazy water, but not green. Not sure what was going on, but flipped on the UV light in the SunSun and things have cleared. I know- this will make the iron drop out of the water much faster, but today I'll turn the UV back off and see where I am after 3 days of it running.

At the LFS yesterday I did grab the following


rotala vietnam h'ra tissue culture
Rotala Indica
pogostemon helferi
ludwigia needle leaf

Rotala has been historically a HORRIBLE plant for me- but there is really no reason for this- So I figured I would give it a try. The Vietnam h'ra was clearance off to me by the owner- he stated that if anyone of his customers could grow it, it would be me! Let's see if I can hold up to my reputation! 

Overall things have been a bit frustrating, watching the stunting, cloudy water, and losing a few plants (blyxa alternifolia completely melted away...)

I'll keep the progress updated coming- no pictures as of now, but I'll work on it.


----------



## chayos00

As Greg has put it, plants like stability and going from low to high was a WTF moment for them. So yeah I bet over a month or two upping the dose 1ml a week ought to bring them up to what you wanted. 

Also as far as the UV, first I've heard about it taking the iron out... I've been running UV myself daily.... Hmmmm now I'm curious what will the plants do if I shut that off for a bit. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> As Greg has put it, plants like stability and going from low to high was a WTF moment for them. So yeah I bet over a month or two upping the dose 1ml a week ought to bring them up to what you wanted.
> 
> Also as far as the UV, first I've heard about it taking the iron out... I've been running UV myself daily.... Hmmmm now I'm curious what will the plants do if I shut that off for a bit.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Yes- I agree with stability, but of course I went and did this anyways!

Just another good example of stability!

Really hope to get things back. Looking at some pictures from before this the Pogo K was a much better color- now it the leaves are a much darker green. I miss the almost yellow/ red color they were. It shall come back!


----------



## Squisher

Don't take this wrong way. But it's nice to read of some of the trials and tribulations of the more seasoned planted tankers here. As a newb to planted tanks it makes it easier to suffer through the growing pains as well as helps the learning process. The honesty and modestness with which most of the regular posters here contribute their success and setbacks is refreshing for a forum. Thanks. 

I appreciate you updating about your jebao doser too. I have mine setup now and calibrated. But have been reluctant to switch from my dry dosing regime in part due to not wanting to mess with the bit of success I'm having. So your experience gives me some food for thought.


----------



## Grobbins48

Squisher said:


> Don't take this wrong way. But it's nice to read of some of the trials and tribulations of the more seasoned planted tankers here. As a newb to planted tanks it makes it easier to suffer through the growing pains as well as helps the learning process. The honesty and modestness with which most of the regular posters here contribute their success and setbacks is refreshing for a forum. Thanks.
> 
> I appreciate you updating about your jebao doser too. I have mine setup now and calibrated. But have been reluctant to switch from my dry dosing regime in part due to not wanting to mess with the bit of success I'm having. So your experience gives me some food for thought.


Although never fun when they are like this, I am more than happy to share my experiences. Transparency and honesty can make or break a person in this hobby (not long ago I was a beginner as well- just look at the first few posts in this journal!). 

My idea when starting this journal was not just to document and share my progress, but to have open dialogue and honest conversations to drive the hobby forward. I appreciate those who take the time to follow along, as well as comment. I know there are many more people reading who do not comment as well, so at some point I feel like it is almost a responsibility to be transparent and help/ inspire others where and when I can!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> When I started up the dosing pump, I put my Micros at 100% of my target... This turned out to be quite the mistake to make, as I have historically be extremely inconsistent with micro dosing- probably getting 1/3 of my target dose weekly, on average, and only after the water change.
> 
> I am pretty sure this is what led to the stunting of the following (painful... I know...)
> 
> 
> ludwigia peruensis
> pogostemon kimberly
> Ludwigia senegalensis
> Limnophila belem
> 
> Overall, all plants seemed to suffer. This has led me to turning daily micros WAY down to 7mL/ day from 14mL/ day. Only been a couple days of this so far, but I see progress in a positive direction.
> 
> I also had some hazy water, but not green. Not sure what was going on, but flipped on the UV light in the SunSun and things have cleared. I know- this will make the iron drop out of the water much faster, but today I'll turn the UV back off and see where I am after 3 days of it running.


Curious, what was the 100% micro target??

As to the hazy water, how bad was it and for how long?

I ask because you may recall I had some horrible hazy water after my "oil spill" disaster. Took weeks and weeks to completely get rid of. I believe it was more of a bacteria bloom than an algae bloom, as my bio field was hit hard.

Many plants suffered from what I believe to be a lack light. I tested my PAR at the peak of the bloom and the light levels getting to the bottom of tank were horrible. If you think about it, makes sense as I could barely see to the back of tank at times. 

You mentioned the lack of color on the Pogo K, so just wanted to point out lack of light would do the same thing. I have had Pogo K for years through loads of dosing strategies, and while some tops might stunt occasionally it never lost color.

Anyway.....could be completely wrong but just a thought.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Curious, what was the 100% micro target??
> 
> 
> 
> As to the hazy water, how bad was it and for how long?
> 
> 
> 
> I ask because you may recall I had some horrible hazy water after my "oil spill" disaster. Took weeks and weeks to completely get rid of. I believe it was more of a bacteria bloom than an algae bloom, as my bio field was hit hard.
> 
> 
> 
> Many plants suffered from what I believe to be a lack light. I tested my PAR at the peak of the bloom and the light levels getting to the bottom of tank were horrible. If you think about it, makes sense as I could barely see to the back of tank at times.
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned the lack of color on the Pogo K, so just wanted to point out lack of light would do the same thing. I have had Pogo K for years through loads of dosing strategies, and while some tops might stunt occasionally it never lost color.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway.....could be completely wrong but just a thought.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> Curious, what was the 100% micro target??
> 
> 
> 
> As to the hazy water, how bad was it and for how long?
> 
> 
> 
> I ask because you may recall I had some horrible hazy water after my "oil spill" disaster. Took weeks and weeks to completely get rid of. I believe it was more of a bacteria bloom than an algae bloom, as my bio field was hit hard.
> 
> 
> 
> Many plants suffered from what I believe to be a lack light. I tested my PAR at the peak of the bloom and the light levels getting to the bottom of tank were horrible. If you think about it, makes sense as I could barely see to the back of tank at times.
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned the lack of color on the Pogo K, so just wanted to point out lack of light would do the same thing. I have had Pogo K for years through loads of dosing strategies, and while some tops might stunt occasionally it never lost color.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway.....could be completely wrong but just a thought.


Micro target was:

Fe 0.45000
Mn 0.13500
B 0.09000
Zn 0.12000
Mo 0.00450
Cu	0.00750
Ni 0.00150

Hazy water was not too long- I feel like it was a bloom of some sort, as the water was not green at all. PAR was still around the 90 to 100 mark, which is where I want it, tested with Seneye (actually pleased I purchased this!).

Bulbs are the two zoo med, one red, one purple and one 10K, so color wise we are looking good actually. 

Here are a few shots... were we not just saying that struggling plant shots made us cool kids, and I am The Fonz? Ha!

Pogo K some better looking new growth on the non stunted shoots. Stunted ones will likely throw off three new stems. 


















Ludwigia peruensis should recovery in time










Ludwigia senegalensis is already on then rebound. Really like this one, so looking forward to it pulling through. 










Even my ambulia, which has been bulletproof and amazing for me took a hit. Trying to propagate some here










Bright side is bacopa colorata is looking much better these days. Not 100% where I want to, but progress!










And the FTS as of right now


----------



## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> Micro target was:
> 
> Fe 0.45000
> Mn 0.13500
> B 0.09000
> Zn 0.12000
> Mo 0.00450
> Cu0.00750
> Ni 0.00150
> 
> Hazy water was not too long- I feel like it was a bloom of some sort, as the water was not green at all. PAR was still around the 90 to 100 mark, which is where I want it, tested with Seneye (actually pleased I purchased this!).
> 
> Bulbs are the two zoo med, one red, one purple and one 10K, so color wise we are looking good actually.
> 
> Here are a few shots... were we not just saying that struggling plant shots made us cool kids, and I am The Fonz? Ha!
> 
> Pogo K some better looking new growth on the non stunted shoots. Stunted ones will likely throw off three new stems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ludwigia peruensis should recovery in time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ludwigia senegalensis is already on then rebound. Really like this one, so looking forward to it pulling through.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even my ambulia, which has been bulletproof and amazing for me took a hit. Trying to propagate some here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bright side is bacopa colorata is looking much better these days. Not 100% where I want to, but progress!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the FTS as of right now




Definitely looking better.

Just curious what you GH and Ca level is in the new tank?

Some of those same plants looked the same for me when my water went really soft.

Also what’s you NPK dosing like?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Marc Gallagher

There were some folks on the local Facebook fish group page saying they'd had some cloudy water, possible bacterial blooms or mini cycles happening over the past week or so, it was occuring after their water changes. I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary myself though.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Micro target was:
> 
> Fe 0.45000
> Mn 0.13500
> B 0.09000
> Zn 0.12000
> Mo 0.00450
> Cu	0.00750
> Ni 0.00150


Those numbers aren't really high at all, and should not be enough to cause any problems.

That being said, every tank is different, so who knows?

Any chance the auto doser amounts could be off?

Will be interesting to see where things go from here.


----------



## Grobbins48

vvDO said:


> Definitely looking better.
> 
> Just curious what you GH and Ca level is in the new tank?
> 
> Some of those same plants looked the same for me when my water went really soft.
> 
> Also what’s you NPK dosing like?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


GH is 8 or so I believe, Ca is 40ppm, and I bring MG to 20ish ppm. A page or two back has the latest dosing, minus micros. 



Marc Gallagher said:


> There were some folks on the local Facebook fish group page saying they'd had some cloudy water, possible bacterial blooms or mini cycles happening over the past week or so, it was occuring after their water changes. I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary myself though.


Hey Marc good to see you here! I have actually been wondering the same thing when I saw that post... the UV seem to have done the trick, so I am curious to see what happens after this next water change tomorrow or Saturday. 



Greggz said:


> Those numbers aren't really high at all, and should not be enough to cause any problems.
> 
> That being said, every tank is different, so who knows?
> 
> Any chance the auto doser amounts could be off?
> 
> Will be interesting to see where things go from here.


So I agree completely. I want to check my dose this weekend when I have time. Cutting dosing in half for now is my 'safe' spot. 

Also- I think my lighting was off, and I am learning a lot about tubes vs. LED. I had two ZooMed flora sun in, and did not have the giesemann super flora. Swapped one of those an PAR bumped up 12 or so. Also balance out what bulbs are where to get stronger light over the back stems. 

While doing this and playing with the PAR meter I seem to have stumbled upon something. 

When using LED, the PAR at the substrate would be, say 100. At the surface it would be around 250+. I am guessing because of the directional lenses built into the chips?

The tubes, however, seem to only jump slightly from the substrate to the top of the water. Maybe 50% or so? My guess is because of how the tube is on directional and where the spread gets focused with the reflectors. As we get closer to the surface, the light from a single bulb gets stronger, but you also start losing light/ spread from the other bulbs. So overall seem to be a much more consistent light.

Also, the ambulia, tucked in the corner, was only getting around 50 PAR pre bulb swap/ ordering. Again, with LED I never worried, this plant was always growing tight node to node. Now with the new setup u am closer to 70 - 80 PAR. Seems the left and right sides and corners are substantially weaker than I initially believed. 

Not sure why I didn't check this before... I do own the PAR meter now!

Anyways, long winded, but that is where my head is at... for this moment at least!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Anyways, long winded, but that is where my head is at... for this moment at least!


LOL yeah ain't that the truth?

A planted tank is like solving a mystery.....clues are everywhere....but still difficult to figure out who done it!!:grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> LOL yeah ain't that the truth?
> 
> A planted tank is like solving a mystery.....clues are everywhere....but still difficult to figure out who done it!!:grin2:


Lol, so very true! As I would like to add - the clues are there, but in what language? So you guess at the language and things get worse... wrong guess. Or, thing really improve but did you guess right “today” or with last weeks guess??? Ahhhh


----------



## Grobbins48

Pogo K is making its comeback. Wouldn't it be cool to have it this color all the time??



















Ludwigia Narrow Leaf making its transformation quite well. Hope this one keep it up and is here to stay unlike the Cuba...










Rotala Vietnam H'ra transitioning 










Getting better on algae, not 100% in the clear yet. Water still clear this week so some good progress.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Just catching up to what's been going on with the tank since December and it's good to see all is going well. Great posts and fun to read.

One item to note, have you thought about removing the spray bars and just using the elbows for water intake into the tank? That's what I did with my tank and the plants didn't miss a beat. I felt my tank looked much better without the spray bars. Something to think about, it may be worth it experimenting with.


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Just catching up to what's been going on with the tank since December and it's good to see all is going well. Great posts and fun to read.
> 
> 
> 
> One item to note, have you thought about removing the spray bars and just using the elbows for water intake into the tank? That's what I did with my tank and the plants didn't miss a beat. I felt my tank looked much better without the spray bars. Something to think about, it may be worth it experimenting with.


Hey Ken- good to hear from you. The past few months has been quite the journey and learning experience. 

I have done both with and without the spray bars. It has been a while since without, but I have really like the flow with. 

Right now trying to get some things dialed in on this tank, but perhaps in the future I can try without again.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Also- I think my lighting was off, and I am learning a lot about tubes vs. LED. I had two ZooMed flora sun in, and did not have the giesemann super flora. Swapped one of those an PAR bumped up 12 or so. Also balance out what bulbs are where to get stronger light over the back stems.
> 
> While doing this and playing with the PAR meter I seem to have stumbled upon something.
> 
> When using LED, the PAR at the substrate would be, say 100. At the surface it would be around 250+. I am guessing because of the directional lenses built into the chips?
> 
> The tubes, however, seem to only jump slightly from the substrate to the top of the water. Maybe 50% or so? My guess is because of how the tube is on directional and where the spread gets focused with the reflectors. As we get closer to the surface, the light from a single bulb gets stronger, but you also start losing light/ spread from the other bulbs. So overall seem to be a much more consistent light.
> 
> Also, the ambulia, tucked in the corner, was only getting around 50 PAR pre bulb swap/ ordering. Again, with LED I never worried, this plant was always growing tight node to node. Now with the new setup u am closer to 70 - 80 PAR. Seems the left and right sides and corners are substantially weaker than I initially believed.
> 
> Not sure why I didn't check this before... I do own the PAR meter now!


Interesting observation on the LED PAR levels as you get closer to the source. I did notice that with my LED lights but never really gave it much thought. Now that you have noted the PAR levels generated by tubes I am wondering if I should try out the diffuser panels that are made for my lights. Hmmm, another interesting puzzle to solve.


----------



## Grobbins48

Today called for a fresh start. Temps outside got into the high 50's, so spring cleaning is what I'll call this. 

I took nearly everything out. I mean nearly everything. 










This was a great vacuum opportunity along with the decision to add back some hardscape. I know, I have been down this road many times, but I really enjoy having some hardscape, I actually think it helps to accent the plants.

This also gave the chance to look through the plants and make sure they are healthy, and toss any dead/dying parts. 

I must say I am pretty pleased with how this is coming along. Needs more work, but needs time for some things to grow in as well.























































And a few bows...


----------



## Grobbins48

Little bit more to add:

Grabbed a few new plants- just plopped for now, no time yet to place.

Golden nesaea- this is new to me, but seems like it should bring some fantastic color if I can transition it well. There are lots of little flowers at the nodes. Hopefully it won't be too difficult, but we shall see.










Hygrophila araguaia in a pot was available. From what I have seen this plant can become I am quite excited for it. Honestly was looking for hygrophila pinnatifida, but none was in stock locally. I'll still grab some of that for the wood at some point when I find it again. Always did well.

Curious how the araguaia will transition and transform. 










I also will give limnophila hippuroides a other try. These stems just came in, looking quite fresh. The color is just amazing on these, and I have seen other tanks with it looking extremely rich in color when transitioned. 











Now the potential for a sea of color. Quite a change from the sea of green a few short years ago!


----------



## vvDO

Grobbins48 said:


> Little bit more to add:
> 
> Grabbed a few new plants- just plopped for now, no time yet to place.
> 
> Golden nesaea- this is new to me, but seems like it should bring some fantastic color if I can transition it well. There are lots of little flowers at the nodes. Hopefully it won't be too difficult, but we shall see.



Only plant that hates me right now!! Would love to see how it does for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

vvDO said:


> Only plant that hates me right now!! Would love to see how it does for you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, it seems like the reviews are mixed on this one. If I can get it to stick it should be a stunning contrast in the tank.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Grobbins48 said:


> Now the potential for a sea of color. Quite a change from the sea of green a few short years ago!


Wow, I really like the color layout. Can't wait to see photos of the tank in about three weeks. Plus you can't see the spraybars!!(ha ha, just kidding!)

Interesting, as when I read others journals they almost always start off with a green plants that are pretty much the same color. But as time goes in the journal, they start playing around with different colors and it really makes for quite a better improvement. It really makes a difference.


----------



## Quagulator

Ken Keating1 said:


> Interesting, as when I read others journals they almost always start off with a green plants that are pretty much the same color. But as time goes in the journal, they start playing around with different colors and it really makes for quite a better improvement.


"And for my next trick, I will start with all red plants and begin playing with green plants as time moves on!"

>


----------



## Grobbins48

@Ken Keating1 thanks for the kind words- I think this weeks picture pops even more.
@Quagulator I can't wait to see what you come up with next. Hope you are getting close!

Algae is subsiding quite a bit more this week. Getting back in pace with better vacuuming and regular canister after cleanings. Did the SunSun last week and the 407 this week. I may go on a ever other or so cleaning rotation. Mayne ever 3 weeks so I can throw the (super neclected) 40 low tech tank canister in the rotation as well.

I have not yet sprayed any of the plants with H2O2 or Glut yet, but I may take a few moments to do some of that tomorrow.

I did put new foam in the 407- thinking I need a couple sets so I can really clean the foam good after the water change is done. Easier to throw fresh ones in!

Hoe often does everyone toss their foam?

Anyways, here are a few pics!



















Kept the hygrophila araguaia in the pot for the time being. Waiting for some good new growth to prune off of it.




























A shot for @Ken Keating1 with the spray bars, and one without!!!! Haha!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Gotta say I really like the layout you have with the 75G, so much more depth than the 55G. I'm sure your pleased you did the switch. And you've done a great job with the planting arrangement. I've very envious!


----------



## burr740

Looks great man, gonna be sweet when it fills in.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> @*Ken Keating1* thanks for the kind words- I think this weeks picture pops even more.
> @*Quagulator* I can't wait to see what you come up with next. Hope you are getting close!



Looks like I'm gonna need to print out a new FTS for the office wall :grin2: Looking Great!


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Looks great man, gonna be sweet when it fills in.


Thanks Burr- A solid,clean fill in is what I am looking for. Need those three new stems to fully transition, and do it cleanly. So far looking pretty good. The Limnophila Hipp is so far so good as well. I actaully just tossed each of these plants in and left them with the weights on for now. Maybe another week or so and I'll be able to give a little trim and replant. I am cautious though, as sometimes things transition well for the first few weeks, and all the sudden stall out. I am trying to me much more consistent in the tank this time around though.



Immortal1 said:


> Looks like I'm gonna need to print out a new FTS for the office wall :grin2: Looking Great!


Thanks! Hopefully there will be a super full shot in a couple of weeks. Still working on some grow out and recovery!


----------



## Grobbins48

I had to make a new dose of micros today, and I decided to keep the same recipe as before, using a target dosing and 2mL/ 10 gallons. After reworking the math a couple times to be sure here is what I have been putting into the tank for the past month (I dropped daily dosing to 7mL, from 14mL from that first week). This is probably much lower than most of the tanks that I follow on TPT.

Daily Dose
Fe 0.03214
Mn 0.00964
B 0.00643
Zn 0.00857
Mo 0.00032
Cu	0.00054
Ni 0.00011

Weekly Dose
Fe 0.2250
Mn 0.0675
B 0.0450
Zn 0.0600
Mo 0.0023
Cu	0.0038
Ni 0.0008

I also added a few O+ balls under a couple species to see if I could boost them. Finally, I have been doing some daily spot treating of algae with a Met14 H2O2 mix. Only about three days into this, but beginning to see some results. Daily Met14 dosing (besides the spray) is 10mL before lights on.


----------



## andrewss

Lookin good! Maybe one day I'll start dosing micros :hihi:


----------



## Grobbins48

Another weekend, another maintenance session!

Slowly turning things around here. Interesting that PO4 tested about 2ppm before the water change. I have been adding what should be 12ppm to the 50 gallons of water I change. I'll check the tank levels tomorrow. NO3 around 25ppm or so.

Algae is getting better, but not completely going away. I have been focusing on good gravel vac and cleaning one of the two filters every week.

I decided to add back in purigen this water change. We will see what impact this has. I know I have been down this road before, but perhaps it will help with a few plants still transitioning and shedding leaves. 

Overall enjoying the tank!


----------



## Immortal1

Interesting, your running into similar issues to what I am. My NO3 is roughly 25ppm before I do my water change. This week, I dosed 7ppm PO4 after water change and then another 4ppm PO4 part way thru the week. Now its testing about 2ppm PO4. Odd.

Now, as for the tank - impressive! Really like the 2 tanks together


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Interesting, your running into similar issues to what I am. My NO3 is roughly 25ppm before I do my water change. This week, I dosed 7ppm PO4 after water change and then another 4ppm PO4 part way thru the week. Now its testing about 2ppm PO4. Odd.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, as for the tank - impressive! Really like the 2 tanks together


Yeah, tested this morning and it seemed between 2-5 ppm. I am going do do some math and check again this afternoon now that I had coffee and am awake!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Yeah, tested this morning and it seemed between 2-5 ppm. I am going do do some math and check again this afternoon now that I had coffee and am awake!


My tank has always used more PO4 than is commonly suggested. One of the reasons I have always dosed it pretty high.

But now with the soil......holey smokes it seems I could dump the jar in there and it would be gone in the morning!!


----------



## burr740

Thats interesting about PO4, you and Linn both. Ive never seen uptake like that in the sand tanks. Most they ever seem to use is , actually use, is maybe 3-4 ppm week, depends on how thick the plants are.

Gregg, told you!  It'll slow down after 3-4 weeks.


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Thats interesting about PO4, you and Linn both. Ive never seen uptake like that in the sand tanks. Most they ever seem to use is , actually use, is maybe 3-4 ppm week, depends on how thick the plants are.
> 
> Gregg, told you!  It'll slow down after 3-4 weeks.


Yeah, it is strange. I'll monitor more closely this week. 

I did add another 2ppm to 70 gallons today.


----------



## Grobbins48

New growth is really making some progress. Still doing some daily underwater spraying of H2O2 and Met14 mix. During the next water change I'll go heavier on the H202 spray before pulling the water out. 

Here are a few shots to show the new growth.




























And the hygrophila araguaia was finally trimmed from the pot and planted. So far a very slow grower. Hopefully the trim stimulates it to focus on the new growth a bit better!


----------



## Grobbins48

Tested PO4 again today, and again had strange readings... So I check the exp. date, which is listed as March 2020...

Not sure if this is influencing the results, so I'll order up a new kit. I'll save this one until the new one comes to compare the results as well.

Did a mid week water change to try to aid in the fight against this GDA. We are getting somewhere, as new growth is looking really good. At least once, if not twice a day I am clearing the surface of any floating leaves. I think between the stunting a month ago, and some new plants transitioning it is adding to the floating leaves. I am sure purigen is helping clean this as well, but always better to get it out.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> New growth is really making some progress.


Interesting how these 2 pics look so much like my 75g tank. 

At one point in time I was only adding around 6ppm KNO3 weekly and the GDA seemed better. Then I switched to the RO water hoping that would help other problems, and knowing I was stripping out the nearly 10ppm NO3 from the tap water, I raised my KNO3 dosing. Now several of my plants look like the pics above. Using the Salifert NO3 test kit I typically get around 25ppm NO3 - does not seem excessive. My PO4 was running low (imo) so I changed the weekly dosing to more like 8ppm. Seems to be helping some. 

Not sure about your tank, but every Sat/Sun I seem to trim out enough plant mass to fill a 1 gal bucket so I can only assume the plants are growing well. 

So, on to a theory - the wifes take gets the same RO water, same micros, roughly the same macros as my tank. Only real difference is she has much less fish and I feed them a lot less food.

"Could the amount of fish food given, and the amount of fish I have be contributing to the excessive amount of GDA?"

Lets assume the statement above is correct. How does that fit into your tank situation? 

I honestly think minor tweeks in Macros / Micros is not going to miraculously fix the GDA problem. I could believe, more tank/filter maintenance "might" fix it "if" my above guess is correct.


----------



## Grobbins48

Linn- all really interesting points, and I do agree, my Macro/ Micro dosing seems comparable to many successful tanks on this site, and has been working fine for me in the past. Tap water remains the same, and is honestly pretty good water (Upstate NY). I have made the commitment to up my filter maintenance, so each week one of the two filters is getting cleaned out. Lighting is not excessive, and the new growth looks fantastic for about a week or so before it gets hit.

I am really focused on uber clean conditions right now- so we will see if that can help bring me through this annoyance!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> I think between the stunting a month ago, and some new plants transitioning it is adding to the floating leaves.


Transitioning plants can have an effect on the entire tank.

Especially if any of the leaves are melting. I had a similar thing when I added some Erio Vietnam. It melted badly, and seemed to cause some melting/poor growth/algae on others plants, particularly ones that were close by. 

I was having a conversation with Dennis Wong about this, and he said it's for real and he thinks it might be an over abundance of microbial decomposers (I had to look that up!) or bacteria. That's one of the reasons he is very focused on removing any dead/decaying plant matter.

Not saying it is the cause, but who knows might be contributing.

I think you are on the right track doing some extra water changes. Will be interesting to see what comes next.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Transitioning plants can have an effect on the entire tank.
> 
> Especially if any of the leaves are melting. I had a similar thing when I added some Erio Vietnam. It melted badly, and seemed to cause some melting/poor growth/algae on others plants, particularly ones that were close by.
> 
> I was having a conversation with Dennis Wong about this, and he said it's for real and he thinks it might be an over abundance of microbial decomposers (I had to look that up!) or bacteria. That's one of the reasons he is very focused on removing any dead/decaying plant matter.
> 
> Not saying it is the cause, but who knows might be contributing.
> 
> I think you are on the right track doing some extra water changes. Will be interesting to see what comes next.


This makes a ton of sense. 

Here are a few of the plants and how they are performing right now:

limnophila hippuridoides seems to be transitioning well this time. You can see the old emerged growth is starting to get ratty. I have trimmed these back once, but have been waiting for them to put on more height before doing it again out of fear of killing them like I did last time.










Hyptis lorentziana 

Getting some great new growth on this. Really interesting plant. Depending on the angle you look at it, the top leaves will either be greenish, or at a lower angle they turn a beautiful red!










hygrophila kompakt got a bit of a trim back to focus on healthy growth. Strange that in my formerly non-CO2 40 breeder this grows substantially different, and much larger! In this tank it almost crowds itself out if not trimmed back every month or so.










ludwigia glandulosa starting to show some life. I had 5 amazing stems of this pre- stunting issue (stupid micros...). I really hope this one pulls through. No side shoots right now, so hopefully this top will continue to recover...


----------



## Immortal1

Hmmm, have noticed the same thing with my hydro compact - very dense in the co2 tanks and more natural looking in the low tech tank.


----------



## vvDO

Greggz said:


> I was having a conversation with Dennis Wong about this, and he said it's for real and he thinks it might be an over abundance of microbial decomposers (I had to look that up!) or bacteria. That's one of the reasons he is very focused on removing any dead/decaying plant matter.
> 
> .


Definitely noticing the same. I was really struggling with GSA on old leaves. I ended up doing a massive clean, including vacuuming substrate, cleaned out many plants that were not looking as good as others. Trimmed and replanted to get rid of the GSA covered leaves. I also thoroughly cleaned out my canister, beyond usual replacement of sponge and filter floss, I also cleaned tubing after a bleach dip. I also found that I had my canister’s coarse sponge in the wrong spot, and fixed that. Since then I’ve had a significant reduction of GSA and now only 2-3 plants rather than all still have GSA. I had also upped my dosing a bit from 14 ppm of NO3 to 18 along with whatever K comes with KNO3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Hmmm, have noticed the same thing with my hydro compact - very dense in the co2 tanks and more natural looking in the low tech tank.


Good to know it is not just me! I feel like I like it better with the lower light. I'll be curious to see if the growth in the 40 breeder changes now that it has CO2- I kinda hope not, since the light is the same!


----------



## Grobbins48

Here are a few of my new additions! Excited to see how I can do with these. I will be putting the brownie purple in the 75, and the other clumps will probably split between the 40 and the 75. Curious to see how they grow different in the different tanks.

Brownie Purple plant









Brownie Jade clump









Black Pearl clump


----------



## Immortal1

Kinda want to say, LOL wish you luck on the Buce. And that really is based on my own personal luck with Buce. 
Now with that said - the Buce that I have in the wifes tank is really starting to look good and actually grow. 
The other odd observation - her light is not as brite as mine. BUT, the R. Rotundifolia is looking healthier and pinker in her tank that it ever did in my tank. Really confused, LOL.

Anyway, your pics look great - maybe one of these days I will add more Buce to one of my tanks (probably hers)


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Kinda want to say, LOL wish you luck on the Buce. And that really is based on my own personal luck with Buce.
> 
> Now with that said - the Buce that I have in the wifes tank is really starting to look good and actually grow.
> 
> The other odd observation - her light is not as brite as mine. BUT, the R. Rotundifolia is looking healthier and pinker in her tank that it ever did in my tank. Really confused, LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, your pics look great - maybe one of these days I will add more Buce to one of my tanks (probably hers)


Sure hope these hold on! Will be interesting to see how they do between the two tanks!


----------



## Grobbins48

PO4 kit comes today, so a side by side test between old and new will be interesting.

Over the weekend I was thinking of the GDA issues that is annoying me. I have decided to change up the lighting a bit. I'll go from 5 bulbs to 4 bulbs- still need to test the PAR on this later, but here are my thoughts:

Bank 1: Giesemann Super Flora (back most bulb, call it Position 1)

Bank 2: Pure Bloom and 10K Finisher (Position 3 and 5)

Bank 3: Flora Sun and Pure Par (Position 2 and 4)

And the schedule will be:

Bank 1 from 11:45 am until 1 pm

Bank 2 from 12:00 pm until 7 pm

Bank 3 from 1 pm until 8 pm

Should still give good color, but with pulling the Giesemann out for most of the day, I should drop at least 20 PAR (testing to come).

As always I am subject to change my mind on this one- but I really want to get into a GDA free state, and dropping the light in the past was the way there for me.


----------



## Grobbins48

PO4 kits absolutely do expire....

Look at the difference. The new kit is on the left. Old one if on the right...

No wonder I have been so confused about PO4...

Advice to all- if you PO4 kit is withing a few months of expirations toss it and get a new one ( well get then new one, do this side by side for yourself, then toss the old one!).


----------



## Hendy8888

So what one is correct? It's API after all..[emoji1]


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> So what one is correct? It's API after all..[emoji1]


Haha right? Probably neither! But...

I would go with the new one for sure- it is actually a color on the scale, where the old one is just crazy cloudy. At least I'll be able to measure relative to itself. 

Yet another reason calibration solutions for these kits are essential!


----------



## Immortal1

Thanks for the info & comparison pics. So I go and look at mine - assuming they are just fine, lol. Expires 02/2020 :frown2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Thanks for the info & comparison pics. So I go and look at mine - assuming they are just fine, lol. Expires 02/2020 :frown2:


Guess you will be placing an order too! Haha...

To think we were both so lost and confused on PO4... something I have been fine with for YEARS now!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Guess you will be placing an order too! Haha...
> 
> To think we were both so lost and confused on PO4... something I have been fine with for YEARS now!



Funny but true - wife reminds me that just last month she thru out a trash bag full of over the counter medicines and medical supplies that had expired. Some by more than a few years.
Oldest daughter has on more than one occasion gone thru the pantry, tossed a bunch of items, then written expiration dates in permanent marker on the remaining items...


Guess I really should pay more attention to these things and what is written in really fine print somewhere on them.


Now, has anybody seen my reading glasses?


----------



## Grobbins48

Trim and a water change. Let's see how things are over the next week with reduced light. I think it is going to be a good move!


----------



## Greggz

Will be interested to see the effect of the lower light. Some may like it.....and who knows others may not.

How much PAR are you figuring?

And that lighting brings out some nice color on the Bows. The orange on the Boesemani looks great!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Will be interested to see the effect of the lower light. Some may like it.....and who knows others may not.
> 
> 
> 
> How much PAR are you figuring?
> 
> 
> 
> And that lighting brings out some nice color on the Bows. The orange on the Boesemani looks great!


Measured between 70 and 80 PAR at substrate. I spent a while here, a little less when running the single beamswork fixture. Until things settle a bit I think this PAR, coupled with the good PUR and overall color will work well.

I was thinking the same- I really like the color of this- makes it hard to place an order for the 420 bulb!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Trim and a water change. Let's see how things are over the next week with reduced light. I think it is going to be a good move!



Great looking pic! Worth posting again 
I'm just amazed at the range of colors


----------



## Grobbins48

New growth on the brownie jade is showing some really neat coloration. Excites to see what purple looks like, and I'll need to get some of the black pearl buce in this tank and see how it colors up.










Lagenandra Meeboldii Red tissue culture added this week. Split 5 plants from the cup between the two tanks. Excited to see what this one bcomes.










Pogo K. looking much better these days! My goal is no more stunting!!!


----------



## plantedman

Grobbins48 said:


> New growth on the brownie jade is showing some really neat coloration. Excites to see what purple looks like, and I'll need to get some of the black pearl buce in this tank and see how it colors up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lagenandra Meeboldii Red tissue culture added this week. Split 5 plants from the cup between the two tanks. Excited to see what this one bcomes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo K. looking much better these days! My goal is no more stunting!!!


Is this Black Diamond Blasting sand?


----------



## Grobbins48

plantedman said:


> Is this Black Diamond Blasting sand?


Yes, it is! About 100lbs in this 75 gallon.


----------



## plantedman

Grobbins48 said:


> Yes, it is! About 100lbs in this 75 gallon.


Thankyou, I just setup mine last week.


----------



## Grobbins48

Just to show what a crazy transformation rainbows can make, here is a picture two years ago today when I got them. This is a boesmani, and a higher quality one. The white sand, bright lights, and no scape or plants really washed his guy out. Oh yeah, he's also young and really had no color.










Here we are about two years later with the exact same fish, in a well established planted tank with great T5 lighting, well fed, and overall healthy and happy.










Just thought some may enjoy seeing this side by side!


----------



## Greggz

Nice comparison.

There is no question that a heavily planted tank with dark substrate and the right lighting brings out the best in Rainbows.

And that Boesemani is a stunner!!


----------



## Immortal1

Agreed with GreggZ - great comparison! Remember when I got my only bosemoni. Was told it was from good stock but was not colorful (not as pale as yours, but similar). Now it genuinely stands out in the tank.


----------



## Grobbins48

As the lights warm up for the morning I caught a glimpse of some amazing colors. Quite true to what I see. This is the Giesemann Super Flora, ZooMed Flora Sun, and AgroMax Pure Bloom (all pink/ red).


----------



## Grobbins48

I realized that I never posted this sheet with my latest updates, so here it is. Biggest updates are the PO4 being lowered, and reflecting my true micro dosing right now.


----------



## Grobbins48

For those who are curious (@Greggz ) here is where I spend my days on Zoom. Could be worse! 

Had to do one with lights off of course, to highlight the tanks!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> For those who are curious (@Greggz ) here is where I spend my days on Zoom. Could be worse!


Nice!

The two tanks together are a great look. 

Has anyone noticed them on Zoom yet??


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> The two tanks together are a great look.
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed them on Zoom yet??


Oh yes! Quite the conversation piece, and no need for virtual background with having these tanks.

The usual questions like are the saltwater, etc...

Someone did tell me that I had a lot of fish tanks. I said really, two is a lot? Her response was "Well we have zero, so I suppose for me to is a lot!" Haha!

Some others have actually reached out after calls to ask for some advice on keeping nice, clean tanks at home.

It is funny, I typically work from home when not traveling, but rarely used video before the shelter in place. Now that all office based employees are WFH, I am on video all day!


----------



## Grobbins48

Progress is being made on the algae front. I think the new dosing (SLIGHLY lower PO4) coupled with the new lighting, and consistent maintenance are paying dividends! 

I did a trim this morning, and a water change just now. 

Still have some progress to be made, but until the bubbles clear up for some more details here is the before picture from this morning.


----------



## Immortal1

LOL, looks like the Pogo K is really hating life there 
Now if I can just get the one in my tank to look that healthy. I have also made some changes - hopefully in a month I will know the result.
Look forward to the post trim pics


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> LOL, looks like the Pogo K is really hating life there
> 
> Now if I can just get the one in my tank to look that healthy. I have also made some changes - hopefully in a month I will know the result.
> 
> Look forward to the post trim pics


If you remember over the past few months I really struggled with it- stunting and algae made me nervous for a bit. I am finally getting to the point where I like it more than ever! 

Post trim not looking amazing scape wise- things need to grow in a bit.

Here are a few shots though:

Rotala H'ra Vietnam is finally starting to look like something. Very small, but honest keeps going. I think I put a few O+ balls under them a few weeks back. Would love to get this as a bush in the background someday.










Hygrophila araguaia is really making me scratch my head... is it just not adapting to submerged or what? Been 6 weeks in the tank now and so little growth...










Moved the buce black pearl in this tank since I shut the CO2 off in the 40 breeder. 










And the crypt is starting to get there. Leaves seem good for like 3 weeks then fade out... maybe it will continue to improve though. It does have some O+ also, for maybe 4 weeks now.


----------



## andrewss

Lookin great, really like the shot of the office setup, they look really good so close to each other and I can only imagine all the comments from the zoom meetings with them in the background!


----------



## Grobbins48

The trimming of the pogo K is strange because I am letting a fresh stems grow out. I also swapped the ludwigia super red mini with the ovalis.


----------



## Grobbins48

Been busy around the house, especially with some nicer weather. Doing some gardening, taking care of the lawn, and replaced/ rebut almost all the screens on the house (did 18 of them I think?). 

I have kept up on the water changes, but otherwise have not spent much time on the tank- which changed this morning with a nice little session.

Did some trimming, arranging, and a good water change. Things seems to be growing quite well these days. Little GDA still on the glass, nothing horrible though. Older buce leaves get a bit of algae, but new growth looking good.

Overall happy with things- letting it continue to sail! Nice weather goes away for a while after today's so maybe I'll be a bit more active with the tank.


----------



## Grobbins48

Not a whole lot to update. Things with the tank are going well, no real changes. Did a decent trim this week.

One thing to note is it seems the barclaya longifolia bulbs are making a resurgence. @Greggz it must have been 6 months ago I got these from you? This is the largest growth I have seen so far. Still small, but looking hopeful!


----------



## Immortal1

Yeah, another happy Barclaya


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Yeah, another happy Barclaya


I really do hope it stays happy!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> One thing to note is it seems the barclaya longifolia bulbs are making a resurgence. @Greggz it must have been 6 months ago I got these from you? This is the largest growth I have seen so far. Still small, but looking hopeful!


Isn't that crazy? Barclaya is an interesting one. 

Twice now I have had it go into hibernation like that.......then suddenly reappear. Does not seem to like sudden or large changes. I can tell you when it gets happy and starts sending out long leaves, it's just a solid steady no drama grower. 

Hopefully it keeps going and gets there for you.


----------



## Immortal1

Immortal1 said:


> Yeah, another happy Barclaya


What I find a bit funny about this quoted post is the names of those who "liked" it. 

Burr740 - who gave me my original plant.

GreggZ - who received a plant from me which was from Burr740

Grobbins48 - who received a plant from Greggz which was from me that came from Burr740.


Ok, my Monday chuckle is done.


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> What I find a bit funny about this quoted post is the names of those who "liked" it.
> 
> Burr740 - who gave me my original plant.
> 
> GreggZ - who received a plant from me which was from Burr740
> 
> Grobbins48 - who received a plant from Greggz which was from me that came from Burr740.
> 
> 
> Ok, my Monday chuckle is done.


Nothing like a great, great grandchild finally getting its act together!


----------



## Grobbins48

Things have been going well overall with the tank. Can't seem to shake the glass GDA, but tank is generally happy these days. 

As I look at the tank and already think towards summer and balancing time with other, socially distant, activities, I wonder to myself what I want to do with the tank the next few months. This may be crazy, but I feel I have too many plant species, and that I want a simpler overall look and feel to the tank right for the time being. 

Here is where some thoughts and feedback from the community would be great. Simple question:

What would you do to this tank to make it not look as much of a flower stand right now?

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the flower stand look, just for the time being maybe something simpler, yet still impactful!

Anyways, enough rambling. Hope this grabs some good ideas and starts some fun conversations!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Things have been going well overall with the tank. Can't seem to shake the glass GDA, but tank is generally happy these days.
> 
> As I look at the tank and already think towards summer and balancing time with other, socially distant, activities, I wonder to myself what I want to do with the tank the next few months. This may be crazy, but I feel I have too many plant species, and that I want a simpler overall look and feel to the tank right for the time being.
> 
> Here is where some thoughts and feedback from the community would be great. Simple question:
> 
> What would you do to this tank to make it not look as much of a flower stand right now?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the flower stand look, just for the time being maybe something simpler, yet still impactful!
> 
> Anyways, enough rambling. Hope this grabs some good ideas and starts some fun conversations!


What would you do to this tank to make it not look as much of a flower stand right now?
Change water, vacuum substrate, add ferts :grin2: I think it looks great as is! But, I can understand your question. I also have too many species of plants. At the moment I am really looking to see what does the best. Obviously I can grow the $#!^ out of several of them - just need to figure out the rest of the top 10 so to speak.
In your case, I suspect the same would apply - which are the best 10-12 growing plants? Make bigger clumps of those 10-12 groups. For now I think I will stick with the 25-30 groups in mine LOL


----------



## Greggz

Funny I am trying to get even MORE flower stand, and you are going the other way!!:grin2:

It all depends on what extreme you want to go to.

Like Linn said, pick your favorites then boost up the groups. Mow them down hard, then it's a long time between trims. And get rid of the real weeds like Ambulia. Turn down the lights a bit, and growth will be even slower. 

Or get more dramatic, and get rid of most of the stems and add a bunch of slow growers like buce/crypts/swords/etc.

Either way, looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


----------



## Asteroid

What I would do might be different than your objective, but I would go with one foreground / carpeting plant. Doing that and placing some rocks midground separating the background stems would bring it all together. Using multiple foreground plants will always make it look less scape and more "flower standish" Not that there's anything wrong with that. LOL.

Tank looks great.


----------



## Grobbins48

Asteroid said:


> What I would do might be different than your objective, but I would go with one foreground / carpeting plant. Doing that and placing some rocks midground separating the background stems would bring it all together. Using multiple foreground plants will always make it look less scape and more "flower standish" Not that there's anything wrong with that. LOL.
> 
> Tank looks great.


You know the foreground is what has been bothering me the most I think. The Monte Carlo is not thriving on the left. I am not sure what to go with.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Micro sword or something might be cool if it stays small enough?


----------



## Ken Keating1

The tank looks great overall. The back half looks good, leave as is, but the front half could be improved, I feel there's too many different plants. Also, I feel there needs to be a smoother transition from the background to the foreground, right now it almost seems like there's a straight line separating the two. Break that line up by inserting some curves in the landscaping. Experiment and try different carpeting plants and see what works best for your tank.


----------



## Asteroid

Grobbins48 said:


> You know the foreground is what has been bothering me the most I think. The Monte Carlo is not thriving on the left. I am not sure what to go with.
> 
> Any thoughts or suggestions? Micro sword or something might be cool if it stays small enough?


I'm surprised about the MC. Anything different on the left? The micro sword would work or don't know how you feel about good old glosso?


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> You know the foreground is what has been bothering me the most I think. The Monte Carlo is not thriving on the left. I am not sure what to go with.
> 
> Any thoughts or suggestions? Micro sword or something might be cool if it stays small enough?


Micro sword should work... It get's everywhere eventually and is quite a task to thin out. Here's mine from awhile back:










You can look at hygro compact, blyxa, s. repens, hair grass, chain sword, pogo helferi, lobelia cardinalis, hygro araguaia, dwarf crypts, pogo gayi, gratiola viscidula, Ammania bonsai etc. to help soften the transition to the background plants.


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Micro sword should work... It get's everywhere eventually and is quite a task to thin out. Here's mine from awhile back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can look at hygro compact, blyxa, s. repens, hair grass, chain sword, pogo helferi, lobelia cardinalis, hygro araguaia, dwarf crypts, pogo gayi, gratiola viscidula, Ammania bonsai etc. to help soften the transition to the background plants.


Wow that is thick!

Do you know how the micro sword would be vs. a chain sword? I am floating that idea right now. Not sure if hair grass would be substantial enough? But perhaps...

Bump:


Greggz said:


> Funny I am trying to get even MORE flower stand, and you are going the other way!!:grin2:
> 
> It all depends on what extreme you want to go to.
> 
> Like Linn said, pick your favorites then boost up the groups. Mow them down hard, then it's a long time between trims. And get rid of the real weeds like Ambulia. Turn down the lights a bit, and growth will be even slower.
> 
> Or get more dramatic, and get rid of most of the stems and add a bunch of slow growers like buce/crypts/swords/etc.
> 
> Either way, looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


You know... the Ambulia is one I wrestle with. It grows absolutely fantastic in this tank- I have about 20-30 stems of it right now. That said, ever two week I need to rip it up and start over, which does get a bit tiring- Just grows sooo fast!

Light is defiantly lower right now with the 4 bulb combo I run most of the day. That said... I may have ordered a few new blue and purple bulbs this week... Should be here within the next week or so!

I also am really enjoying watching your transition and what you do with some of the new plants! Collecting new species is a blast!


----------



## monkeyruler90

I've been grueling with the idea of how much i'm spending on my tank now vs when things go back to normal and I'll be busy again

do you take a lot of time for tank maintenance? i've spent some $ and time now trying to automate as much as possible so that when I go back to being busy the tank won't suffer a ton. water changes, feeding, dosing

The ambulia looks beautiful but yeah if it's a higher growing plant then it'll be hard to keep up with. 
excited to see the direction the tank takes


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> You know... the Ambulia is one I wrestle with. It grows absolutely fantastic in this tank- I have about 20-30 stems of it right now. That said, ever two week I need to rip it up and start over, which does get a bit tiring- Just grows sooo fast!


I had Ambulia for some time.

Like you, just grew like mad, couldn't slow it down.

Eventually I pulled it. I try to balance the amount of weeds like ambulia with other slower/medium growers, and it just got to be too much.


----------



## Grobbins48

monkeyruler90 said:


> I've been grueling with the idea of how much i'm spending on my tank now vs when things go back to normal and I'll be busy again
> 
> do you take a lot of time for tank maintenance? i've spent some $ and time now trying to automate as much as possible so that when I go back to being busy the tank won't suffer a ton. water changes, feeding, dosing
> 
> The ambulia looks beautiful but yeah if it's a higher growing plant then it'll be hard to keep up with.
> excited to see the direction the tank takes


I have taken a bit more time and care these past couple of months of being home all the time. That said, now that the weather is breaking, I can get to other projects/ activities around the house. I know this will slow me down with the tank through the summer (happens every year), and then I pick it back up more intense in the fall. May be different this year, who knows?

I am fairly automated, and water changes are quite quick.

I am between Hairgrass (regular or dwarf) and Micro Sword right now for the carpet. I have done Dwarf Mini Hairgrass before and it grew wonderfully! 

As to the scape, I have some more stones, and can go a bit more island style perhaps? Larger groups in the back that can also taper taller to shorter and transition better into a foreground.


----------



## Grobbins48

I hope everyone was able enjoy some time this holiday weekend! I was able to enjoy plenty of time outside, but when I needed to relief from the heat I took advantage of the time to play around with the tank. Some pretty large changes below, and not yet done.

The biggest change is that I have removed some plants. There is no longer any ambulia, monte carlo, myrio red stem. Pretty big move chopping out three plants right now. I am sure more will go in time, but had to start somwhere.

Okay, I lied, that was not the biggest change. I have actually redone the scape completely. I took everything out and did a deep, massive clean of the tank. This also gave me a fresh canvas to work on a new type of scape, going for more of a nature style. I placed all the plants into a bucket with tank water for the whole scape time, which did them well to not wilt or bend.



















My thoughts were to go more of a nature scape this time, with some more pronounced hardscape and new focal points. It has only been half a day of this scape, so not yet sure where I will land with it. Once I am sold on positioning, I will add some O+ balls under a few of the plants. The Crypt actually split into two plants and has been doing quite well, so I do want to add some there, as well as a few other places.

For the foreground I am really trying to decide between Helanthium Tenellum, and micro sword. Leaning twoards the Helanthium Tenellum right now,. I really like how George Farmer has it looking in this Aquascaper 1200- that is what turned me onto the idea of changing up the scape a bit.

Also mixed up some new micros, this time using a bit of Fe Gluconate as well. It will be a few weeks until I anticipate seeing something, if anything at all. 

New bulbs will be here later today as well. So plenty to play with!


----------



## Immortal1

Well this should be interesting - like what I see so far


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Well this should be interesting - like what I see so far


Thanks Linn. What I am unsure of the most if the rock on the far left- Not sure if needs to be different, or if it even needs to be there at all.


----------



## Greggz

I like it.

Has a good vibe about it, and looks like a good home for the Bows.

Will be interesting to see how it evolves, and how the maintenance is over time.

Nice work!


----------



## Asteroid

Yay an aquascape with actual hardscape! Looks good, maybe the rest of the brat pack stem club will try something like this one day :hihi:


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks Linn. What I am unsure of the most if the rock on the far left- Not sure if needs to be different, or if it even needs to be there at all.


Interesting - I think the far left rock looks ok there - maybe a little too "new" looking. Give it a few months to darken and I think it will look just fine. Had a few minutes so I did a little "rough" MS Paint work on the rock - tried to get it to "blend" a little more.


















Thoughts?

Bump - please ignore the "chunck" of rock in the upper left of the pic. I never claimed to be a photo editing expert, LOL


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Interesting - I think the far left rock looks ok there - maybe a little too "new" looking. Give it a few months to darken and I think it will look just fine. Had a few minutes so I did a little "rough" MS Paint work on the rock - tried to get it to "blend" a little more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Bump - please ignore the "chunck" of rock in the upper left of the pic. I never claimed to be a photo editing expert, LOL


I was actually hoping for a floating rock in the corner! haha!>

I agree with the too new looking. I am good at growing algae though, so have no fear, they will look natural soon! That is what you get for using super cheap materials from a garden center vs the designer stones! I am okay with it though! 

I have some hygrophila pinnatifida I am trying to get going, and that rock may be a good base for it!


----------



## gjcarew

I like it! Could be cool to contour some stems through the gaps in the rocks. Maybe that would get rid of the cool angular lines you have right now though. Might be worth a try!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

@Immortal1 not sure if it will work, but worth a shot. Took the monte carlo and super glued it to that rock. I have seen it work before, so wanted to try. Maybe it will be wonderful, maybe a massive fail, we shall see!

Also have a lot of new plants coming to help change the direction of the tank a bit. We will see what works well and stay, and what gets cut. I expect them to be in next week sometime. 

Finally- why did I not get an atinic bulb before? This thing is amazing. More details in a future post, but I am hooked!

Pictures are with Super Flora, Pure bloom, 3000K, true atinic 420, flora sun. White balance was set to auto.


----------



## Asteroid

That should be interesting with the MC. I think i saw some Hygrophila pinnatifida in there. How does it grow for you. I've had it in my tank for about two months and it's finally starting to take off.


----------



## Grobbins48

Asteroid said:


> That should be interesting with the MC. I think i saw some Hygrophila pinnatifida in there. How does it grow for you. I've had it in my tank for about two months and it's finally starting to take off.


Yes, the hygrophila pinnatifida has been in there since March. It is just starting to take off now. In the past I had it in my 55 and it grew really fast and large. I hope it take off here, and that with my lighting setup I can get some more brown and red out of it.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, I really like the new look with the rocks!! It makes the tank look a lot more natural. Sometimes I feel we put too much emphasis on the plants, which is fine, but what you've done has such a natural and balanced look, very impressive.


----------



## Asteroid

Grobbins48 said:


> Yes, the hygrophila pinnatifida has been in there since March. It is just starting to take off now. In the past I had it in my 55 and it grew really fast and large. I hope it take off here, and that with my lighting setup I can get some more brown and red out of it.


Sorry if I missed it but what kind of PAR is it getting and no3 levels?


----------



## Immortal1

@Grobbins48 I like the new FTS ! Funny how just a little bit of color in that spot changes the rock from being a focal point to being just another piece of the hardscape.
The rest of the pics look great as well. I am still amazed at how you T5 guys can generate such nice colors in your tank.


----------



## Grobbins48

Asteroid said:


> Sorry if I missed it but what kind of PAR is it getting and no3 levels?


So I am around 25ppm NO3, and PAR has been around 80 with the 4 bulbs. I am co considering going back to the 5 bulbs (above) which will bring me to 100 or so. Have not pushed the tank too hard these past few weeks.


Ken Keating1 said:


> Wow, I really like the new look with the rocks!! It makes the tank look a lot more natural. Sometimes I feel we put too much emphasis on the plants, which is fine, but what you've done has such a natural and balanced look, very impressive.


Thanks Ken! I have been feeling I needed a change, and so far am quite happy with this layout! Some of the new plants will really change things up!


----------



## Grobbins48

When ordering the new bulbs I also grabbed a new pH probe for the controller. I decided to go with the Pinpoint model; the blue it's way better looking than the yellow of the Milwaukee. 

Calibration was quick and easy, just a bit off from the Milwaukee one, as I expected. Now that I feel I trust the probe more, I will spend a bit more time fine tuning the CO2 to the right drop point. I think right now I am a bit low on my flow rate. 

As to the bulbs, I still owe a write up on that! Now that the blue has been burning for a week, along with the 3000K everyone should be giving their true readings. Next time I have a chance I'll grab the PAR on it. 
@Greggz have you grabbed a 420 bulb yet? I feel you would absolutely love it!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> @Greggz have you grabbed a 420 bulb yet? I feel you would absolutely love it!


I'm running a Giesemann Super Actinic right now.

It replaced the ATI Super Purple and brought the PAR from 127 to about 110. Trying to keep the PAR just a bit lower while the tank transitions.

The color does look great, but I'll probably go back to the Super Purple once I think the tank can take it. As you know, fine tuning PAR is something most don't think about but has a large effect on the tank in general.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> I'm running a Giesemann Super Actinic right now.
> 
> 
> 
> It replaced the ATI Super Purple and brought the PAR from 127 to about 110. Trying to keep the PAR just a bit lower while the tank transitions.
> 
> 
> 
> The color does look great, but I'll probably go back to the Super Purple once I think the tank can take it. As you know, fine tuning PAR is something most don't think about but has a large effect on the tank in general.


Interesting you are going with the super actinic. I have one of those and a super purple too. The super actinic I found to be really purple in the blues, and struggled bringing out the right colors with all the other red I run. The gieseman 420 seems to be the sweet spot right now, and is an extremely blue bulb. 

Too much fun playing with them.

In other news, plants showed up and have been temporarily placed in the tank. More details soon!


----------



## Grobbins48

The new additions are now in the tank. Here is what I picked up.

I wanted to give some new crypts a shot, and I even found a mini TC of flamingo. Curious to see how these do

Cryptocoryne 'Tropica'
Cryptocoryne Lucens
Cryptocoryne Lutea
Cryptocoryne Pink Flamingo


Not sure if there was going to be a difference between these, so I bough both, and did a 50/50 split in the tank. Will be interesting to see if they grow any different. Some sources say the regular will give new growth with potentially red leaves, while broad leaf stays green. Time will tell.

Helanthium Tenellum
Helanthium Tenellum Broad Leaf


And a few others that I saw and decided will be fun to try.
Blyxa Aubertii
Vallisneria Spiralis Leopard

Now I know I want to cut back on species, and I still will get there. I wanted to see what will grow well out of these and how their submersed form is. After a month or more we will see how things are doing and make some calls then.


----------



## Grobbins48

As I installed the new pH pen, I decided to try to push my CO2 a bit higher. It seemed to me there was space left on the table, and I was right. The pH now goes down to about 6.3 by the afternoon, and no issues with the livestock. The plants are absolutely loving this change however. I believe between that, and the change in lighting (PAR ~100 now) the plants are pearling like the used to with the LED lights. Very pleased.

I also have noticed less algae issues overall with the tank. Quite happy with the new lighting setup.










I have been working to get my pictures as close to what it looks like to my eye. Not too dark, not too bright, and the right level of colors. Slowly getting there. It is tough with the amount of ambient room light, and I am lights out before it is dark out. Here are a couple shots with different white balance, everything else the same.


----------



## monkeyruler90

upping the CO2 would definitely make the plants happier, maybe I should start bumping it up on my tank too


----------



## Grobbins48

Walked in the office this evening and this caught my eye. Only the 3000K and the flora sun were running. Never had the Rotala H'ra pearl like this before!


----------



## Grobbins48

Just some regular maintnance.

Helanthium tenellum is starting to spread, along with the leopard val. 




















Barclaya longifolia looking great! Two solid bulbs going now.










Pulled ludwigia red mini, and put it in the 49 breeder, which is now cooking with gas again. Swapped CO2 tank this weekend. Wanted to grab a spare 10lb, but they only had one aluminum. I'll head back in a few weeks and grab another aluminum one.

I planted the rotala H'ra Vietnam in place of the ludwigia red mini. If it does well back there I think it will look much better.

Overall pleased with how things are progressing!


----------



## Sam the Slayer

Very pretty tank! And those bows... very nice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

Love the way the tank looks when the bulbs are warming up. Just a pure bloom, true actinic, and a super flora on in this pic.


----------



## gjcarew

Grobbins48 said:


> Love the way the tank looks when the bulbs are warming up. Just a pure bloom, true actinic, and a super flora on in this pic.


Is that limnophila aromatica? Also congrats on 1000 posts!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

gjcarew said:


> Is that limnophila aromatica? Also congrats on 1000 posts!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Thanks and good catch, didn't see it hit 1,000! Crazy how long this has been going, but happy it is engaging for people still! I know I enjoy it!

That is actually pogosteamon kimberly. Here is what it looks like now with everything on through nearly a full light cycle:


----------



## Greggz

The Pogo K. is looking very good.

I remember you had some trouble with it stunting earlier.

What do you think it is liking??


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> The Pogo K. is looking very good.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember you had some trouble with it stunting earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think it is liking??


Yes, was worried a while back about the stunting. I think the initial stunt happened when I went from low, inconsistent micros to using my dosing pump with a full dose. I dialed down my daily dosing to 50%, and have been rock solid consistent with my macros. On top of that the maintenance routine has not skipped a beat these past few months. Weekly 70% water changes, consistent filter cleaning, and weekly substrate vacuuming. 

Lots of things we have covered in the past, but at times we all can stray a bit from this path. Getting back on it can lead to wonderful things!


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> Love the way the tank looks when the bulbs are warming up. Just a pure bloom, true actinic, and a super flora on in this pic.


I couldn't agree more, there's just something about it. I wonder if dimming t5's would have the same effect?


----------



## Grobbins48

Lots of rain here today, so I found the time to rip up a lot of the plants and clean things up. I must have tossed about a gallon or more of plant mass this time around.

Pretty happy with things overall. The helenthium tenellum is coming in nicely. 

I have been pretty on top of water changes this summer so far, not missing any. Filters are ever few weeks I do one. 

Still seeing a little GDA at the end of the week, but nothing horrible.

The crypt tiger is great, just the old leaves get hit with algae hard. 

Hope everyone is having a great summer!


----------



## Grobbins48

Wouldn't it be cool if the leopard val stayed this small? It is so red and beautiful!

The barclaya longifolia is absolutely huge. @Greggz no joke on this one taking odd after it acclimated. Two bulbs took, and you must have sent them 8 or 9 months ago. Absolutely love this plant!

Just a few shots to share!


----------



## Greggz

That Leopard Val looks cool. Might have to get some time.

And yes, that Barclaya can sit for months, then all of the sudden it spurts to life.

I have some of that same batch that were nothing but bare bulbs for awhile and are starting to get going again.

Looks great in your tank, that is for sure.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> That Leopard Val looks cool. Might have to get some time.
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, that Barclaya can sit for months, then all of the sudden it spurts to life.
> 
> 
> 
> I have some of that same batch that were nothing but bare bulbs for awhile and are starting to get going again.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great in your tank, that is for sure.


When I need to thin them out I'll send some tour way. Amazing color and unique pattern on them.


----------



## Grobbins48

What to do with the barclaya! It is HUGE!


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## Sean09

The leopard val is crazy! Very pretty tank, lots of different colors and textures


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## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> What to do with the barclaya! It is HUGE!


I generally trim off the largest / oldest leaves until it looks right


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> I generally trim off the largest / oldest leaves until it looks right


Knock on wood, I have not pulled a single leaf off the plant in months. Something is clicking these days.

In other news she's getting ready to flower too!


----------



## Grobbins48

I have clearly been trying to enjoy what is left of summer... better get the scissors out...










Also, one of the three flowers are starting to bloom. If anything cool come of this I'll be sure to update!


----------



## Greggz

Wow that Barclaya is getting ginormous! 

When mine was that big, I kept removing the longest leaves from time to time or it wants to take over the tank.

And definitely time for a trim. You should post another pic when you get whack it down a bit.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Wow that Barclaya is getting ginormous!
> 
> 
> 
> When mine was that big, I kept removing the longest leaves from time to time or it wants to take over the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> And definitely time for a trim. You should post another pic when you get whack it down a bit.


I am still shocked how well it is doing and how large it has grown. I can now see it will take over the tank if left alone!!!

As to the trimming, I do need to get to that, but it will be a bit more difficult right now. Last Wednesday when pretending to be the next top chef I sliced my left ring finger pretty good, to the tune of two stitches. Left had will not be touching fish water for a while, but I'll make it work!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> I am still shocked how well it is doing and how large it has grown. I can now see it will take over the tank if left alone!!!
> 
> As to the trimming, I do need to get to that, but it will be a bit more difficult right now. Last Wednesday when pretending to be the next top chef I sliced my left ring finger pretty good, to the tune of two stitches. Left had will not be touching fish water for a while, but I'll make it work!


If left alone...
I left the wifes tank alone a little too long...


----------



## Grobbins48

Did a little trim the best I could for today.

The barclaya was about two feet long










The leopard val was about four feet long










And here we are


----------



## Immortal1

Looking great with a trim! Guess I'm not the only one with an oversized Barclaya


----------



## Grobbins48

Had to remove all the leopard val from this tank. Just huge and taking everything over. Just in the low tech 40 breeder now.

Deep cleaning today felt good!


----------



## Immortal1

Impressive pic Greg. I like how the Barclaya is the "center of attention" with all the other stems having a supporting roll behind it.


----------



## Grobbins48

I have a lot of catching up to do on TPT, but figured I could post a little eye candy for the time being.

Things are going well for the most part!














































Think grade growing these days! 










All the pearling you could ask for...


----------



## Greggz

Nice set of pics!

Plants are looking happy and healthy.

And those Boesemani are looking great!


----------



## Grobbins48

One more for the night... view while I work!


----------



## Greggz

Probably my favorite pic so far.

The two tanks next to each other creates a really nice vibe.

Very cool.


----------



## Sam the Slayer

Grobbins48 said:


> One more for the night... view while I work!



What kind of plant is that red one in the right aquarium? Looks like cryptlike. Very cool 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Sam the Slayer said:


> What kind of plant is that red one in the right aquarium? Looks like cryptlike. Very cool
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Barclaya longifolia. Pulled one out of the tank on the left and added it to the 40 breeder last week. Really like the vibe!


----------



## Sam the Slayer

Grobbins48 said:


> Barclaya longifolia. Pulled one out of the tank on the left and added it to the 40 breeder last week. Really like the vibe!



Oh yeah it’s very nice! The height and color really make the whole thing pop and how it spreads makes your eyes move around the scape. Well done 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

Did a pretty large trim for the first time in a while this afternoon. The Rotala H'ra Vietnam has been growing quite wonderfully. Rather than replanting the tops, I mowed it down to see how it comes back. Over the past few months I have been doing trims on it here and there and it grows back well, but this is the first complete mow. 

Some pre trim shots from above:







































And the post trim:


----------



## Grobbins48

Wow, almost a month since the last post. It has been a great great summer with some fantastic outdoor weather. This fall has already been enjoyable as well. All that said, the tank is still doing great.

I noticed today that I have been doing the exact same dosing of macros and micros since February! Overall things are growing very well. I still have this weekly GDA that just will not go away, but it cleans up non problem, so I have not been chasing after it.

The helenthium tenellum carpet is on fire... looks amazing to me. My worry now is that in another month I'll need to uproot it/ thin it out and replant so it doesn't choke itself out!

The snails are a bit out of control, so I did add two zebra loaches. I also am trying to plck the larger snails out. I also pulled the apistogramma agassizii from my 40 breeder (the big one passed and had a few small females left). Check out my other journal for the update on what is happening there! 

Anyways, it's about time to get a bit more active here, so looking forward to some conversations!


----------



## Immortal1

Clearly the helenthium tenellum carpet is happy in your tank. Carpets are one of those plants I have never really tried.
Looks like you have plenty of pearling going on


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Carpets are one of those plants I have never really tried.


Me neither. But I have to say it does look VERY good. Might have to add a patch someday!


----------



## Grobbins48

@Immortal1 and @Greggz thanks for the kind words! If ever you want to try some we can see how it ships. Sandwich baggie and some paper towels should work well!

Here is a shot of the tank with just the low level, night viewing LED's. These are on for 30 min after the T5HO's shut down.


----------



## burr740

That carpet is looking sweet.


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> That carpet is looking sweet.


Thanks Joe! Excited to see your Dutch when the time comes to share!


----------



## Grobbins48

For those familiar with barclaya longifolia- does it look like this plant has some daughter bulbs? Seeing these smaller leaves that look like when I first got some small bulbs in.

Also, does this plant stay strong year round, or does it go dormant from time to time?


----------



## Greggz

Mine stays strong all year. 

If you pull the whole clump, you will have a bunch of smaller bulbs in there. 

Pull them off and plant them and you could replant them. But then they would take over the entire tank!!


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Mine stays strong all year.
> 
> If you pull the whole clump, you will have a bunch of smaller bulbs in there.
> 
> Pull them off and plant them and you could replant them. But then they would take over the entire tank!!


Good to know! Is there any harm in leaving the smaller bulbs with the mother plant for a while?


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Good to know! Is there any harm in leaving the smaller bulbs with the mother plant for a while?


No, it will just get thicker. I pull them to tame it a bit.


----------



## Grobbins48

Deep cleaning and some rearranging this weekend. Always seems to shine after some good TLC!

Couple weeks and it will be overgrown yet again!


----------



## Greggz

The tank keeps getting better and better!

I like how the Crypts are creeping into the carpet. Never noticed them before but it's a good use.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> The tank keeps getting better and better!
> 
> 
> 
> I like how the Crypts are creeping into the carpet. Never noticed them before but it's a good use.


Thanks! I am glad you mentioned the crypts in the grass. This is actually the exact look I was going for, just took a while for them to take well. Right now with the foreground I am trying to keep a more. natural transition. That is, until I get to the stems in the back! Then it is back to grouping. 

I have never tried making the whole tank look more 'natural' and less grouped and sectioned. Hmm... maybe another time?


----------



## Quagulator

Darn it.... I thought I was going to be the first one to get a dwarf crypt carpet going

Tank looks really good!


----------



## *Ci*

Can you tell me what variety these dark coloured crypts are, please? Are they dwarf crypts?


----------



## CRS Fan

*Ci* said:


> Can you tell me what variety these dark coloured crypts are, please? Are they dwarf crypts?



They appear to be Cryptocoryne wendtii. I’m not sure of the variant.

Best regards,

Stuart


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> Darn it.... I thought I was going to be the first one to get a dwarf crypt carpet going
> 
> Tank looks really good!


Thanks Quag! I still think you will win the carpet. And if I recall it is all flamingo? Mine didn't make it out of TC...


*Ci* said:


> Can you tell me what variety these dark coloured crypts are, please? Are they dwarf crypts?





CRS Fan said:


> They appear to be Cryptocoryne wendtii. I’m not sure of the variant.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stuart
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I believe it is wendtii bronze. The high light is helping it keep keep color and compact. Digging the vibe!


----------



## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks Quag! I still think you will win the carpet. And if I recall it is all flamingo? Mine didn't make it out of TC...


I'm trying to grow out all the plantlets, it doesn't resemble a carpet just yet


----------



## Grobbins48

Just a few from tonight. Enjoying this tank and the great pictures with the early dark outside. Easy to have less glare!

Everyone doing well, healthy and happy. 

Hygrophila balsamica starting to settle in after melting very hard the first week or two. Hope it takes as I want to swap it to the back if it fills in well.


----------



## n70me

Hi @Grobbins48

I have been reading this amazing journal,interesting and plenty to learn.


----------



## Grobbins48

n70me said:


> Hi @Grobbins48
> 
> I have been reading this amazing journal,interesting and plenty to learn.


Thanks for the kind words, I am glad you have been enjoying the journal! I know I sure have been enjoying documenting and sharing with this community.


----------



## Grobbins48

After seeing @Greggz and his great water change post, I decided to document a bit of mine today. Not nearly as detailed or elegant as his, but it was a good cleaning and trim this morning.

Also, having a second CO2 tank is wonderful. This main 10lb ran out yesterday, so simply swapped to the backup 10lb this morning. Now I have time to go grab a refill, no rushing! 










Pulled up most of the background plants today. Needed a good trim and cleaning. Lots of stems growing these days!










Then the drain and refill



















And here is the trash bucket on the pink step stool!










Then the final product. Still pretty pleased!


----------



## Greggz

Those stems are looking great. Nice thick root system when out of the tank.

I also see you are doing LARGE water changes. IMO, both plants and fish love it.

And tank is really looking great and getting better and better.

But you should consider upping your step stool game!!:grin2:


----------



## rzn7z7

Really like that Helanthium tenellum carpet you've got going....makes a great border and the tank looks great!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> After seeing @*Greggz* and his great water change post, I decided to document a bit of mine today. Not nearly as detailed or elegant as his, but it was a good cleaning and trim this morning.
> 
> Also, having a second CO2 tank is wonderful. This main 10lb ran out yesterday, so simply swapped to the backup 10lb this morning. Now I have time to go grab a refill, no rushing!
> 
> Pulled up most of the background plants today. Needed a good trim and cleaning. Lots of stems growing these days!



Hmmm, I see you and @Greggz obtained your cutting tray from the same source. Surprised your both still married, LOL
Chuckle aside, tank is looking great! Have a feeling most don't realize how much work goes into maintaining a healthy tank - let alone a healthy tank full of stem plants :grin2:


----------



## Quagulator

Looking great! 

What are your dosing numbers like? What substrate are you using again?


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Hmmm, I see you and @Greggz obtained your cutting tray from the same source. Surprised your both still married, LOL
> Chuckle aside, tank is looking great! Have a feeling most don't realize how much work goes into maintaining a healthy tank - let alone a healthy tank full of stem plants :grin2:


Haha made me laugh! This pan is actually probably older than I am. It was my moms pan, and she left it here a few years ago. Works perfect for this job. Funny thing is I remember making cookies on it when I was young! 



Quagulator said:


> Looking great!
> 
> What are your dosing numbers like? What substrate are you using again?


Thanks! Dosing has not really changed since February. I don't have the sheet right now, but I'll look for it and post. The substrate is still BDBS, and I am loving it. I do dread needing to uproot the helenthium tenellum though... it is getting super thick...



Also, something strange I have been paying attention to the past few months or more. My hygrophila pinnatifida simply will not grow up, as in vertical. It is also extremely slow growing. It must be at least 4 or more months old at this point.

What is strange is I remember having this plant back a few years when I had the 55, and it grew absolutely massive! Not sure what is going on, or if anyone had any thoughts. Biggest difference would be T5HO vs the two LED beamswork fixtures. Around 100 PAR or so hitting then.


----------



## Grobbins48

Over the weekend I finally got to something that I have been wanting to do since last year; remove the SunSun filter and pre filter canister, and replace it with a Fluval 407. The SunSun setup is what has been powering the DIY cerges reactor this whole time- since the tank was the 55 gallon. Last year some of you may recall I grabbed my first Fluval 407 to see how it would work out. I really enjoyed this filter the past year; quiet, reliable, and super easy to service. I like that the mechanical filtration can easily come out- actually everything is super easy to remove!

Replacing everything went really smooth. Most of the bio media fit right from the SunSun to the 407. The top of the SunSun did have purigen in it, so that is now pulled out. Not sure if it was really doing anything for me anyways (lots of discussion about that earlier in the journal). The CO2 reactor is performing great as well. I honestly did not touch the flow meter- settings are exactly the same. pH drop has been nearly identical, after the swap, so pretty pleased with that. I have things set that one CO2 tank is powering both my 75 and 40 gallon tanks. The Dwyer flow meters control the amount of CO2, and I use my pH controller basically as a pH meter, and a fail safe for when my CO2 tank runs out and my cheap regulator give me EOTD.

I also removed the SunSun from my 40 breeder and threw a 307 on that tank. I would have liked the 407 just for the size, but the flow, even throttled back, would have been just too much. I need to throttle down the 307 as it is!



















Tank health overall has been great. New batch of Micros the other day, but same recipe as before. Macro still unchanged and frontloading. Now that it is winter time, I may play around with Macros a bit as I still get the annoying GDA by the end of the week. I think part of that may also be the organic buildup from 13 larger rainbows, among other fish!

Maintenance each week is more than just the water change. I try to always do a vacuum of the carpet- it is amazing how much gunk and funk it hold in just one week. Also around the crypts and the barclaya- tons of gunk flowing out when syphoning. 

For lighting I have all the same bulbs running, but just swapped positioning on two of them so on ramp up and ramp down, the actinic is balanced out by the 3000K, vs. those bulbs overpowering flora bulbs. Little things, but make the tank nicer for me when sitting by it all day in my office.










Not much else to report right now, so here are some photos to enjoy!





































Most of the bows here


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## Greggz

This post is timely. Recently found out they are no longer making the Rena Filstar's that I use, and parts/seals are already getting scarce. 

So I have been doing some research on filters and planning ahead. Going to have to take a closer look at the Fluval's now.

And the tank is looking great! And the Bows too!


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> This post is timely. Recently found out they are no longer making the Rena Filstar's that I use, and parts/seals are already getting scarce.
> 
> 
> 
> So I have been doing some research on filters and planning ahead. Going to have to take a closer look at the Fluval's now.
> 
> 
> 
> And the tank is looking great! And the Bows too!


After the one year trial with the 407, and lots of research, I decided it was the best choice for my application. 

I looked I to an FX4 or 6, but just was not thrilled with its overall design for being used in my cabinet. I, like you and many others, take the filters out often for full service. These one are really easy to manage moving in and out as well as opening up. Priming has been super easy as well.

Overall a solid filter. Keep an eye out for sales/ deals. They typically run 200, but i did a 'black friday' online order and pickup from a big box store, and got them for about 150 each. The savings in nice when looking at 2-3 filters! 

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


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## nightster

May I ask why y'all don't use eheims? Not that there's anything wrong with Fluval, just wondering if there was something I didn't know. Been out of fw for a bit.


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## Grobbins48

nightster said:


> May I ask why y'all don't use eheims? Not that there's anything wrong with Fluval, just wondering if there was something I didn't know. Been out of fw for a bit.


I honestly don't have a good answer for that. When I saw the redesign and reviews of the 07 series, I really liked what I saw. After a year of running one of them, I was sold, and grabbed two more.

Never really looked deep into eheim, guess marketing partially got me on the fluval train, ha!

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


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## nightster

Grobbins48 said:


> I honestly don't have a good answer for that. When I saw the redesign and reviews of the 07 series, I really liked what I saw. After a year of running one of them, I was sold, and grabbed two more.
> 
> Never really looked deep into eheim, guess marketing partially got me on the fluval train, ha!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


Oh ok, I'm in the market for a new filter and if fluval had something new I wanted to know lol. Thanks, tank looks great by the way. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Greggz

Hey forgot to add that when you run the 3000k with the Actinic must be quite a cool vibe. 

When I run my Powerveg 660 and Giesemann Super Purple it's my favorite time of the day. The Bows look crazy colorful.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Hey forgot to add that when you run the 3000k with the Actinic must be quite a cool vibe.
> 
> 
> 
> When I run my Powerveg 660 and Giesemann Super Purple it's my favorite time of the day. The Bows look crazy colorful.


That is my warm-up for the day, with an added flora bulb. Love the look of it. 

Cool down at the end of the day is the 660 and another flora bulb, which is a pretty relaxing look as well. 

These combos keep a pretty consistent look through the day. Ill try to grab my warm up combo if I can catch it!

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


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## Quagulator

nightster said:


> May I ask why y'all don't use eheims? Not that there's anything wrong with Fluval, just wondering if there was something I didn't know. Been out of fw for a bit.


I use them exclusively. I like that they are dead silent, they come with the quick connect valves in-line (so you can have them anywhere), they are very trustworthy, last a long time, they are super simple and parts are easy to find. 

Only 2 downsides I see are 1) flow is far less than ideal, they are incredibly weak and 2) The bright green tubing and intake / output are very sore on the eyes.

@Grobbins48 what size cerges are you using? Any issues with bubbles escaping? It's a toss up what reactor setup I want to go with > 

Also, now you have me looking at the Fluval line up of filters lol


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## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> I use them exclusively. I like that they are dead silent, they come with the quick connect valves in-line (so you can have them anywhere), they are very trustworthy, last a long time, they are super simple and parts are easy to find.
> 
> Only 2 downsides I see are 1) flow is far less than ideal, they are incredibly weak and 2) The bright green tubing and intake / output are very sore on the eyes.
> 
> @Grobbins48 what size cerges are you using? Any issues with bubbles escaping? It's a toss up what reactor setup I want to go with >
> 
> Also, now you have me looking at the Fluval line up of filters lol


I am using the 10" housing with a bleeder valve on top. I have had no issues quickly dropping the pH. I run about 40psi into the reactor. The 10" housing was really to ensure easy fit under my cabinet. I am sure a few bubbles pass through, but nothing that has bothered me. My tank is sprite by the end of the day anyways with all the pearling :grin2:


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## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> I am using the 10" housing with a bleeder valve on top.


Any photos / designs info on your setup?

I'm a Cerges noob as I've only ever built Griggs style reactors. I'm thinking of swapping over (currently weighing out the benefits vs each other)....

Thanks! 

Forgot to mention that was a great update post above. Good info on the lights and some good photo's!


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## Greggz

While we are the topic of filters, why didn't you like about the Sun Sun in comparison to the Fluval??


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## Quagulator

Greggz said:


> While we are the topic of filters, why didn't you like about the Sun Sun in comparison to the Fluval??


I'm curious on this as well... I have a Marineland C-220 which the SunSun's are based off (I think???) sitting in storage and was thinking of using it to solely run a reactor.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> While we are the topic of filters, why didn't you like about the Sun Sun in comparison to the Fluval??





Quagulator said:


> I'm curious on this as well... I have a Marineland C-220 which the SunSun's are based off (I think???) sitting in storage and was thinking of using it to solely run a reactor.


A few things...

The quick disconnect always threw a lot of water out, even after closing it. This water would then enter the filter head, and actually would be held in the filter head. After removing the filter from under the tank for cleaning I would need to tilt the head of the filter and drain out the water.

The UV is something I used a lot in the beginning, but probably have not turned on in the past 18 months. The bulb itself was a bit frustrating to work around, as I would need to lift the head completely off (vertically) before tilting to the side. The made the water in the head even more annoying.

Now, what I really like about the Fluval that the SunSun did not have was the ability to pull the mechanical filtration out without removing all the bio media. There is a vertical section that is the entire height of the filter that holds the foam. This is super convenient and easy to clean. The bio media side also has the media cages easy to remove with a central red bar that allows every cage to be removed togeher. Pretty cool.

Downside of the fluval is the low amount of media it can hold relative to its flow rate. The SunSun you can pack a TON of media into it. I am willing to live with this one, as I actually like the smaller size of the Fluval for moving in and out of the stand. The lower amount of media is just soemthing to be aware of.

Finally- I do not believe the SunSun brand is UL listed... That is something that the risk management side of my brain did not like once I learned that. Not saying something DID go wrong, but if it did, that would not be good... All done with those filters now though!

I did keep the SunSun spray bars and filter intakes with surface skimmers. IMO, those are some of the best in the game (if not going with glass).

The above may not be deal breakers for some, but for me, they just kinda felt cheap as well. The Fluval just feels quality, and for my two display tanks (which is all I have) I wanted to feel good about all my equipment.

Bump:


Quagulator said:


> Any photos / designs info on your setup?
> 
> I'm a Cerges noob as I've only ever built Griggs style reactors. I'm thinking of swapping over (currently weighing out the benefits vs each other)....
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Forgot to mention that was a great update post above. Good info on the lights and some good photo's!


Let me see what I can find in my pictures, and I'll get back to you on that one.


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## Greggz

Quagulator said:


> Any photos / designs info on your setup?
> 
> I'm a Cerges noob as I've only ever built Griggs style reactors. I'm thinking of swapping over (currently weighing out the benefits vs each other)....


Quag here is picture of mine.

I brought the top of the filter and small piece of filter and CO2 hose to the hardware store. The parts are all there it's just finding what you need for your hose. A guy in the plumbing area helped me gather up the parts in a few minutes.


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## ReeferRusso

Liking the clean look of your cabinet, Greg. 

Also, still jealous of the T5s! As you know, one day I will join the T5 train. 

Here are a couple of pics of the 20" Cerges I built and connected yesterday. I have it connected to a dedicated FX4. Some would say this might be overkill for a 90g "hardly planted" mess of a tank but I'm all about overkill! 

Still haven't decided between the two Dwyer flow meters or a Porter.


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## ReeferRusso

For any readers; did the pics in my previous post show up? Are they sideways? Sorry for the questions here but I'm on my phone and not overly familiar with the formatting the site has for phone browsers.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Quag here is picture of mine.
> 
> I brought the top of the filter and small piece of filter and CO2 hose to the hardware store. The parts are all there it's just finding what you need for your hose. A guy in the plumbing area helped me gather up the parts in a few minutes.


This is the exact same setup I have running. Only change is mine is 10" and it is a clear body vs. blue.



ReeferRusso said:


> For any readers; did the pics in my previous post show up? Are they sideways? Sorry for the questions here but I'm on my phone and not overly familiar with the formatting the site has for phone browsers.


yes, pics showed up, but they were sideways.

Good looking setup under that tank though!


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## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> Greggz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quag here is picture of mine.
> 
> I brought the top of the filter and small piece of filter and CO2 hose to the hardware store. The parts are all there it's just finding what you need for your hose. A guy in the plumbing area helped me gather up the parts in a few minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the exact same setup I have running. Only change is mine is 10" and it is a clear body vs. blue.
> 
> 
> 
> ReeferRusso said:
> 
> 
> 
> For any readers; did the pics in my previous post show up? Are they sideways? Sorry for the questions here but I'm on my phone and not overly familiar with the formatting the site has for phone browsers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes, pics showed up, but they were sideways.
> 
> Good looking setup under that tank though!
Click to expand...

Sideways? Kind of a little like me! 🙂

Thanks for the compliment. I would have liked to go with a clear housing but couldn't find one that was 20" with 1" in/out that didn't cost 2x's as much as the blue one. 

Going to have to figure out the pic thing on Chrome on my phone. Or maybe use Tapatalk if it's available and decent to use here.


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## Grobbins48

ReeferRusso said:


> Sideways? Kind of a little like me! 🙂
> 
> Thanks for the compliment. I would have liked to go with a clear housing but couldn't find one that was 20" with 1" in/out that didn't cost 2x's as much as the blue one.
> 
> Going to have to figure out the pic thing on Chrome on my phone. Or maybe use Tapatalk if it's available and decent to use here.


FWIW I use Tapatalk on my phone most of the time. They host most of my photos as well. I find it well worth it. I even pay the $1/ month to have no ads and be able to post up to 9 pictures at once. The only thing is the for sale forums do not work on Tapatalk, which for me is probably a good think anyways! Less impulse purchases late at night!>


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## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> ReeferRusso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sideways? Kind of a little like me! 🙂
> 
> Thanks for the compliment. I would have liked to go with a clear housing but couldn't find one that was 20" with 1" in/out that didn't cost 2x's as much as the blue one.
> 
> Going to have to figure out the pic thing on Chrome on my phone. Or maybe use Tapatalk if it's available and decent to use here.
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW I use Tapatalk on my phone most of the time. They host most of my photos as well. I find it well worth it. I even pay the $1/ month to have no ads and be able to post up to 9 pictures at once. The only thing is the for sale forums do not work on Tapatalk, which for me is probably a good think anyways! Less impulse purchases late at night!<a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/PlantedTank_net_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a>
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for the info. Good to know and will be downloading the app momentarily. I may even splurge on myself and get the subscription!

BTW - you're a better man than me if you only have impulse buying issues late at night! 😉


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## Quagulator

Grobbins48 said:


> I am using the 10" housing with a bleeder valve on top. I have had no issues quickly dropping the pH. I run about 40psi into the reactor. The 10" housing was really to ensure easy fit under my cabinet. I am sure a few bubbles pass through, but nothing that has bothered me. My tank is sprite by the end of the day anyways with all the pearling :grin2:


10 x 4.5" ??


@Greggz is your 20" housing x 2.5" or x 4.5" ??

Thanks :nerd:


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## ReeferRusso

FWIW - I'll be running the 20" x 4.5" through a RFG. It's running now without CO2 and I'll getting quite a nice flow. I'll let everyone the results once the CO2 kicks on. 

The attached pics are 3D printed RFGs that I had my daughter's boyfriend print for me. One is for a 3/4" Loc Line and the other is 1".


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## Greggz

Quagulator said:


> 10 x 4.5" ??
> 
> 
> 
> @Greggz is your 20" housing x 2.5" or x 4.5" ??
> 
> Thanks :nerd:


Mine is 5.12". Pentek 150166 3/4" #20 VIH Blue Filter Housing with Valve and Pressure Relief.


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## Grobbins48

Quagulator said:


> 10 x 4.5" ??
> 
> 
> 
> @Greggz is your 20" housing x 2.5" or x 4.5" ??
> 
> Thanks :nerd:


This is the one I purchased and am using:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CFOGH32/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Grobbins48

Not much to report, but here is from post water change a few moments ago.


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## Grobbins48

Decided to drop my PO4 a bit. Been adding 6ppm to 50 gallon dosing, yank hovers around 5ppm. Dropped to dosing 4ppm in 50 gallons this week. Main reason is the GDA is starting to annoy me! Also it is winter so really gives me more time to see cause and effect of dosing.

Here is a pretty trim shot today- hood is open so only 3 bulbs shine down, and my room becomes blue due to the 420 shining on the ceiling!


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## Grobbins48

A few candid photos from the 75 and the 40 tonight of the inhabitants. 


































































Oh, and the hava fern trident doing its thing making baby plants. Some new growth from the rhizome too. 











And I suppose a FTS... because, why not?


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## Grobbins48

I have some time off of work as we near the end of the year, and it has me taking a look at the 75 gallon a bit deeper. 

The helanthium tenellum carpet is quite dense at this point in time... so dense that I believe the only next steps is to completely rip it out, thin it out, and replant. Each week I do vacuum it, and a ton of detritus comes out. I think it has reached a point that it is just holding too much, and too difficult to properly clean. There are some spots of nasty BBA popping up on the carpet, something I have never had before.

Then I look at the tank overall. I do like it, however, if you have been following my journal, you know by now that I like to change things up. Not sure exactly what I am thinking right now though. Do I keep some hardscape? Do I move back to no hardscape for the winter and really push the stems? Do I even keep the helanthium tenellum for the winter? It goes well with the hardscape, and I can run it for a few more months before I move to something else...

Anyways, decided to write down some of my thoughts and see where this takes me. What will probably happen is I start working on the tank, and then one thing will lead to another, and everything will end up out, and a full deep clean and rescape!


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## Greggz

If you think about it long enough, the answer will become clear.

Time for a bigger tank!!!:grin2:


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> If you think about it long enough, the answer will become clear.
> 
> 
> 
> Time for a bigger tank!!!:grin2:


Well you know that this uses to be a journal for a 55 gallon!

Now, it has been 12 months, not sure I should make that swap just yet!

In all seriousness, though, I am not sure I would put more weight in the spot I have this tank, and due to the desk I have I cannot have a longer tank at the moment. 

If my office were a concrete pad, I would absolutely go with 6ft 125 rainbow tank!

In the meantime, I'll keep thinking on how to change this around. The stems just have not been as impressive as they can be in this arrangement.


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## Grobbins48

A few pictures to demonstrate my thoughts...

Algae in the grass...



















But the tiny leopard vall that popped back up looks amazing under this light!










Crypts getting large










Barclaya need to be thinned of some daughter plants. Maybe grow a few out?










Mermaid weed- saw a discussion on this in another thread. Mine is growing needle thin. Has not reached the top of the tank yet, so curious to see if the color will change.










And the overall FTS... just not coming together for me for some reason right now!

I think one issues is the Barclaya is way too centered. I'll need to find a way to offset it a bit, especially if I keep and island hardscape. 

As always, love thoughts and feedback to help develop what is next!


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## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> A few pictures to demonstrate my thoughts...
> 
> Algae in the grass...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the tiny leopard vall that popped back up looks amazing under this light!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crypts getting large
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barclaya need to be thinned of some daughter plants. Maybe grow a few out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mermaid weed- saw a discussion on this in another thread. Mine is growing needle thin. Has not reached the top of the tank yet, so curious to see if the color will change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the overall FTS... just not coming together for me for some reason right now!
> 
> I think one issues is the Barclaya is way too centered. I'll need to find a way to offset it a bit, especially if I keep and island hardscape.
> 
> As always, love thoughts and feedback to help develop what is next!


While I like the color of the Barclay's, I am in agreement with you about it being too centered. Especially if it was not your intention to have it be the focal point of your tank. I don't know about anyone else but my eyes naturally gravitate toward it. Maybe put it in the back, right corner. This will open up the left-center and entire left side of the tank for something else of decent size and color. Then again, I'm no scape master in FW tanks!

Overall, though, I still believe the tank looks great!

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro


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## Grobbins48

I started something... more details to come soon. Take one at the rescape is settling in right now... 

Barclaya has a TON of bulbs. I pulled a bunch off, and planted a few of them to see what happens! I am sure someone would be interested in them.



















The crypts had a bunch of daughter plants as well. Thinned them out and still have a bunch left over that I just won't use.



















And the carpet came up in very nice chunks. Really incredible just how much plant mass there was!





































And here is the current situation. Will look (hopefuly) quite a bit different soon!


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## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> I started something... more details to come soon. Take one at the rescape is settling in right now...
> 
> Barclaya has a TON of bulbs. I pulled a bunch off, and planted a few of them to see what happens! I am sure someone would be interested in them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The crypts had a bunch of daughter plants as well. Thinned them out and still have a bunch left over that I just won't use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the carpet came up in very nice chunks. Really incredible just how much plant mass there was!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the current situation. Will look (hopefuly) quite a bit different soon!


Gee, kind of looks like you have a good start for another tank. Like perhaps a 125g! I'm feeling I'll get agreement from @Greggz !

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro


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## Greggz

LOL well that didn't take long.

Looks like the train has left the station!

Looking forward to seeing what comes next.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> LOL well that didn't take long.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the train has left the station!
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what comes next.


Haha right? Not long at all...

Here is where we are at for today. Still undecided on the full carpet going back, but I have a day or two to think about it.

Overall I am pretty pleased with what are little rearranging can do. Things will move a bit here and there still, and may add a few new things.


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## Grobbins48

Nighttime light vibes...


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## Immortal1

I will say this - that carpet looked VERY well rooted. Must be doing something right 
New scape is looking pretty good


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## Hendy8888

I vote keep the carpet! Looks good.


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## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> I vote keep the carpet! Looks good.


Took your advice! Time to let it grow back in now. Pretty incredible that I still have about two gallons of this grass still left...


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## Grobbins48

The holiday time got in the way of tank time, so just now did the first water change since the rescape. Only issue was heavy GDA and GSA, which I expected. 

I really like having the 406 filters, as they make my maintenance and filter cleaning much easier. 

I did almost gas my fist today... oops... i much have bumped the flowmeter when turning the power off, because it was beyond 50cc/min, and I typically run 40. The cerges was also 50% full of gas, and it rarely gets above maybe 15% on a normal day. I had to run a quick errand, and when I got back all the bows were at the surface (only them though...). The pH controller had not clicked off yet, but it was at 6.3. I may need to calibrate the pH probe, but either way, turned the pH controller up a bit, turned the gas back down to 40, and aimed the spray bars up for an hour. All was well after that. Lesson is make sure you pH controller is truly set for a safety level!

Anyways, my thought is to focus in on my fertilization a bit more the next few months of winter. I kept things the same this week, but pending what happens, I was to target removal of GDA. PO4 has been lowered for a few weeks now. Perhaps NO3 and K need to go down a bit as well.

Here are a few shots from just moments ago. 

Loaches are getting comfortable in the tank now. I see them more than ever! Between them and manual removal of snails, we are making progress in their eventual demise!




















Same with the Cory cats, they enjoy being up here.



















Ludwiga Ruben is really starting to settle in and take off. Going to let it hit the surface to help it develop offshoots. 









@Greggz crazy how this hygrophila compact changes so much under high light. Only 10 days or so and it is already compressing the growth so much. Also, the cherry barbs really enjoy eating it. Glad I moved it to my 40 breeder. Now sure if it will last in this tank!










And a few others...


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## Grobbins48

Adding update dosing page to keep here as well. Thinking of bringing the NO3 and K down a bit over the next few weeks.


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## Hendy8888

Do you know what's in your tap water as far as nutrients go?

Tank is looking great by the way, I love the yoyo loach antics, surprised you have any snails left at all with them.


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## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Do you know what's in your tap water as far as nutrients go?
> 
> Tank is looking great by the way, I love the yoyo loach antics, surprised you have any snails left at all with them.


Only Mg and Ca are in the water, nothing else. Really good water in this area!

The YoYo loaches are young and small, and they have only been in the tank a couple or so months now. They do good work on the small snails, but I try to cherry pick the larger ones out.


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## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> Only Mg and Ca are in the water, nothing else. Really good water in this area!


Your very lucky! There is all sorts of stuff coming out of my tap. 

I'm interested to see how your fert changes go, especially with an inert substrate. What does your nitrate test at on average with your current dosing?


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Your very lucky! There is all sorts of stuff coming out of my tap.
> 
> I'm interested to see how your fert changes go, especially with an inert substrate. What does your nitrate test at on average with your current dosing?


Honestly I have not been testing regularly, but when I do it is between 10 and 20ppm. More of a light orange on the API kit. 

Really looking to get the GDA to retreat...


----------



## Greggz

I've been going down this road of lower dosing as well. 

Keep a close eye on the plants. Nothing will happen overnight, but it's possible some plants will run out reserves, and that takes time. K is the one I would be worried about.

I'm thinking I have hit about the limit with mine, but still experimenting.


----------



## butchblack

FWIW I have found that even a slight moving of my PH controller can throw the settings off. So besides a daily check of the ph reading, I check the high and low set point at least 1X month.


----------



## Grobbins48

Talking with a local member of our aquarium Facebook group, he is 'breaking down his CO2 tank, and going simple low tech. With that, there were some plants he wanted to remove to keep some simpler ones. 

Very generous opportunity for some new plants, and I shared a few back that should do well with no CO2.

Here is what is new:

Rotala mini butterfly and I believe tonina fluviatilis










I think hygrophila sp. bold










Two different Erio varieties. If anyone knows their names, would love to have them. @burr740 any thoughts? 










Limnophila aromatica mini and not sure the one on the right. Thoughts?










Finally one leftover staurogyne purple stem he had. 











Just plopped them in the tank for today. This weekend I'll need to move things a bit more.

I did pull the crypt wendtii bronze out of the 75 and will either give some away for find space for the time being in the 40 breeder.


----------



## burr740

Looking good man! The bright one is E lineare, the dark one in front is E vietnam


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Looking good man! The bright one is E lineare, the dark one in front is E vietnam


Awesome, thanks!! Hope they like my soup, I really like the look of them!

Once I get them in a place I like, should I do an O+ ball or two under them? I'll need to read up on these to keep them alive.


----------



## burr740

Grobbins48 said:


> Awesome, thanks!! Hope they like my soup, I really like the look of them!
> 
> Once I get them in a place I like, should I do an O+ ball or two under them? I'll need to read up on these to keep them alive.



They are both fairly easy, I grow them in sand with no O+, it'd probably give em a little boost


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> Talking with a local member of our aquarium Facebook group, he is 'breaking down his CO2 tank, and going simple low tech. With that, there were some plants he wanted to remove to keep some simpler ones.
> 
> Very generous opportunity for some new plants, and I shared a few back that should do well with no CO2.
> 
> Here is what is new:
> 
> Rotala mini butterfly and I believe tonina fluviatilis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think hygrophila sp. bold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two different Erio varieties. If anyone knows their names, would love to have them. @burr740 any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Limnophila aromatica mini and not sure the one on the right. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally one leftover staurogyne purple stem he had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just plopped them in the tank for today. This weekend I'll need to move things a bit more.
> 
> I did pull the crypt wendtii bronze out of the 75 and will either give some away for find space for the time being in the 40 breeder.


Looks like a nice score!

I like how it appears the red neon is giving a welcome to the new plant in that first pic! 

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Greggz

Wow you got some nice plants there.

Looks your hand is forced as to where you are going. Pretty soon you will be loaded with stems again.

To the right of the L. Aromatica Mini looks like it could be Syngonanthus SP. Meta. Will need more pics once it settles in, and to see if it grows tall.


----------



## Grobbins48

Caught my eye while cleaning a few leaves from the surface of the water. Only bulb on is a single Giesemann Super Flora.


----------



## Grobbins48

Moved a few things around this weekend. For the picture below the ISO was set a bit higher than usual, so a bit brighter than you typically see from me! 

I have found that most of the red plants show their most vivid and vibrant coloration early in the photo period (below picture is very end). Has anyone else noticed this? Wondering if there is something to that, or if it is just me?


----------



## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> Moved a few things around this weekend. For the picture below the ISO was set a bit higher than usual, so a bit brighter than you typically see from me!
> 
> I have found that most of the red plants show their most vivid and vibrant coloration early in the photo period (below picture is very end). Has anyone else noticed this? Wondering if there is something to that, or if it is just me?


I have a plant that does this too, can't recall its name. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

I have been spending some time thinking about my lighting the past few weeks. I did grab two more Giesemann Super Flora, and also grabbed tow 6500K Tropic bulbs. My PAR was reading much lower that I thought at the substrate (though there was a lot of plant mass), around 80. My guess is still around 100 if no plants. Anyways, I am thinking of attempting to bump PAR and color, for some fun!

I have locally sourced some PowerVeg 660 (Thanks @Greggz for the reps name!). They should be at the store in the next week or so. I also had them order me one more of the Sunblaster Nanotech T5 fixtures to bring me to 6 bulbs. Not sure if I can fit much more under the hood!

When playing around with the new bulbs the other day, I really struggled to get something I liked with the Giesemann Tropic bulbs. For what my eye is used to (heavy color bulbs) the 6500K seems to wash everything out a bit. I am hoping that with having 6 bulbs, and adding the strong powerveg 660, that I can achieve a look that I will like, and really start to push PAR.

Right now I am running:

Giesemann Super Flora
3000K
Pure Bloom
Giesemann True Actinic 420
Giesemann Super Flora

I'll try to grab a picture a bit later, but overall things are going well.

One thing to note is that I had the helanthium tenellum out of the tank a bit too long before replanting. The new growth is strong and fine, but the old growth is getting HARD hit with algae. I'll likely need to rip everything out again, and plant just the fresh, new growth to clean it up. Not looking forward to it, but definitely the right thing to do. Just need to find a couple good hours to go through everything!


----------



## Grobbins48

So, I got a little it itchy when looking at that last FTS... just not looking the way I want it. The rotala h'ra is beautiful, but in the wrong spot. That led to a quick 40 mim scape session.

I this this is a good foundation to grow thing back. Now just need to take on the helanthium tenellum!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> So, I got a little it itchy when looking at that last FTS... just not looking the way I want it. The rotala h'ra is beautiful, but in the wrong spot. That led to a quick 40 mim scape session.


LOL stare at the tank and have a sudden scape session. I know that sickness well!!

When you get it really bad, you lay in bed at night thinking about what should go where, what should be removed, what should be added, etc. It's like a puzzle that can never solved. 

And yes the G. Tropic needs a good deal of color to offset it. I have 2 x Purple and 2 x Red (Powerveg 660). And even then, I make take one of the Tropics out and replace it with a Super Flora.

And I like the changes you made to the scape!!


----------



## Grobbins48

Good to know it is not just me with the Tropic. Once the 660's are in, along with the 6th fixture I'll need to play around a bit. I do have a giesemann super purple, 420, and super actinic to play around with (420 is running now and my favorite so far), along with the super flora, some flora sun's, 3000K, pure par, etc...


----------



## Grobbins48

So I decided to bust out the PAR meter today in anticipation for the new lights and fixture(s?). I must say, much lower that I thought.

Running from back to front:
Giesemann Super Flora
3000K AgroMax
Pure Bloom AgroMax
Giesemann 420
Giesemann Super Flora

The 3000K and Pure Bloom are about a year old now, so maybe they are a bit weaker at this point (didn't test them individually). The PUR is great, so happy there. Perhaps I can push it a bit more with some incremental and fresh bulbs 

Top middle









Bottom Center









Bottom Left


----------



## Greggz

Yeah much less than I would expect.

How far are they from the substrate?

And I am guessing the 420 is lower PAR than a G. Super Purple. I have never tested the Agromax bulbs, so have no clue there.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Yeah much less than I would expect.
> 
> How far are they from the substrate?
> 
> And I am guessing the 420 is lower PAR than a G. Super Purple. I have never tested the Agromax bulbs, so have no clue there.


So I did some digging and found this:









Share Your Bulb Combo Thread


Speaking of brand new, the Geisemann Super Flora measured the other day when it was new, PAR hasnt changed at all now in 4-5 days. Still the same as day one. So maybe the typical 'burn-in' period can vary by brand or depend on the manufacturing process...or something. Or maybe this bulb I got...




www.plantedtank.net





The Pure Bloom is the PAR killer. I am 26 total inches from lights to substrate. 

Do you happen to know what the 660 is for output? I imagine higher than the 12 I got...

Maybe to start adjusting the tank I'll remove the pure bloom and put another super flora in there.


----------



## Grobbins48

Okay, so pulling the pure bloom and adding a third super flora put the bottom center to around 102 PAR, with the same 70% PUR. 

That is more of where I had been aiming. I'll let that bake for the next week or so and see what happens. Colors still seems good to me.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Okay, so pulling the pure bloom and adding a third super flora put the bottom center to around 102 PAR, with the same 70% PUR.
> 
> That is more of where I had been aiming. I'll let that bake for the next week or so and see what happens. Colors still seems good to me.


I have said this for a long time, but the actual mix of bulbs plays a large role in PAR.

The 660 is relatively weak compared to something like the Super Flora.


----------



## ReeferRusso

Based in PUR from other lamps, it also looks like the Geisemanns are responsible for a large bump in PUR.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> I have said this for a long time, but the actual mix of bulbs plays a large role in PAR.
> 
> The 660 is relatively weak compared to something like the Super Flora.


Yeah, and that is why I had ordered two tropics, as those are (my guess) low to mid 30's on the PAR at my substrate (each), while the super flora came in around 20 last time I tested them alone. Those white bulbs pretty pack a punch!


ReeferRusso said:


> Based in PUR from other lamps, it also looks like the Geisemanns are responsible for a large bump in PUR.


Yes, for sure. Looking back those AgroMax had relatively lower PUR, but they are also mostly white bulbs. More testing will be needed. Good thing there is lots of snow here to keep me inside (when not clearing the driveway!!).


----------



## Grobbins48

Repost from the share you bulb thread to keep it in my journal as well
*___*

On my journey to continue to play with combinations, I did some more measuring of single bulbs in the same fashion I did about a year ago (above in this thread). Here are some results, which I found to be rather interesting. Each bulb was give 5 min to warm up before a reading was taken. The other readings from above are still valid aside from the 3000K, which was a bit stronger when measuring this time, so I added the new one below. Thee 3000K was also used for the past year also, so my guess is that either it got a bit stronger when burning in, or I did not let it warm up enough the first time I did it.

I'll be honest... I had forgotten about my testing last year, and really though the Giesemann Super Flora would be a stronger bulb.

Overall, pretty happy with how the new combo is looking right now (I'll work to get a picture later when I can), but am also excited to finally play with a Power Veg 660 and an added fixture(s) in the next couple of weeks.

This is what happens in winter time, more light, more playing! The good news is I have a great bulb assortment to keep color and lower the PAR in the summer months when I am playing outside!


----------



## Greggz

Nice post!

I am very surprised by the reading on the G. Super Flora. I've tested individual bulbs several times and it has always been one of the highest PAR's. 

I did take all of my readings about 2" under the water surface, so different than yours. But still, that's interesting and I wonder why the difference?

But I guess makes little difference if you are dialing in a PAR and color that you like.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Nice post!
> 
> I am very surprised by the reading on the G. Super Flora. I've tested individual bulbs several times and it has always been one of the highest PAR's.
> 
> I did take all of my readings about 2" under the water surface, so different than yours. But still, that's interesting and I wonder why the difference?
> 
> But I guess makes little difference if you are dialing in a PAR and color that you like.


Yeah, it really caught me off guard, but matches my readings from last year.

For some reason my reading on the Giesemann Tropic did not post.. I'll need to find them, but my guess was somewhere in the 30's.... I was way wrong... A single 4ft measured the same way as the ones above came in at 50 PAR!

Edit: Added the Tropic above...


----------



## Grobbins48

Here is the tank from just moments ago with the new light setup from above. A bit warm going from a blue to purple bulb, but I'll rock it for a few days.


----------



## Discusluv

Wow! Pretty amazing...


----------



## Greggz

I like that combo! And how did you get that FTS in your signature??


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> Wow! Pretty amazing...


Thank you, and good to hear from you! Hope you are doing well.


Greggz said:


> I like that combo! And how did you get that FTS in your signature??


Yeah, it's not too bad! Signature was under settings I believe, then left hand side was signature setting. I saved the photo to my desktop and dragged and dropped it into the image section. I rarely use the desktop version (typically tapatalk on my phone), but with the PAR readings I used the browser today and found it!


----------



## Grobbins48

More to come...


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## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> More to come...


Oh c'mon now... the suspense is killing me!


----------



## Grobbins48

For those who have been following along for a while, or have high attention to detail, you will notice the above picture has not five, but six T5HO bulbs! Yes, that is right, I have finally upgraded myself to a normal number of bulbs, haha! 

That said, I so far am really digging this combo. I am around the same 120 PAR at substrate, but not as warm as the previous setup from earlier this week.

Back to front:

Super Flora
Super Purple
3000K
Pure Bloom
Actinic Blue
Super Flora

Here is the new setup










And for quick reference the one above










Still some more up my sleeve over the next couple of weeks.


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> For those who have been following along for a while, or have high attention to detail, you will notice the above picture has not five, but six T5HO bulbs! Yes, that is right, I have finally upgraded myself to a normal number of bulbs, haha!
> 
> That said, I so far am really digging this combo. I am around the same 120 PAR at substrate, but not as warm as the previous setup from earlier this week.
> 
> Back to front:
> 
> Super Flora
> Super Purple
> 3000K
> Pure Bloom
> Actinic Blue
> Super Flora
> 
> Here is the new setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for quick reference the one above
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still some more up my sleeve over the next couple of weeks.


Definitely quite a bit more blue. Looks quite a bit brighter too. I like it! I wonder if you would gain more brightness and possibly red with the 3000k T5 LED.


----------



## Grobbins48

ReeferRusso said:


> Definitely quite a bit more blue. Looks quite a bit brighter too. I like it! I wonder if you would gain more brightness and possibly red with the 3000k T5 LED.


Yeah, I am curious about that one. When I go to pick up the 660's when they come I think they also carry the agromax LED T5's. 

On the zoom conference calls all day the tank looks like a reef tank from the side due to the cheap webcam, but in person this looks really good!


----------



## Grobbins48

Tank caught my eye just now. This is a point and shoot in auto mode, no pro, not adjustments done by me, only auto by the camera. 

Thought it looks pretty cool! A but overexposed, but the color of the pogo k is pretty spot on right now.


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> Tank caught my eye just now. This is a point and shoot in auto mode, no pro, not adjustments done by me, only auto by the camera.
> 
> Thought it looks pretty cool! A but overexposed, but the color of the pogo k is pretty spot on right now.


Even washed out it looks good. I'm sure it looked great in person!


----------



## Grobbins48

The importance of pH probe calibration; this is not a disaster sorry. 

For the past few water changes I have been meaning to calibrate my pH probe for my pH controller. It has been a long while since I have done it to be honest (maybe since I replaced it with this new one actually). When doing my filter maintnance this weekend I must have knocked the flow meter for CO2, because my rate was off, as in no flow. Yesterday (Sunday), I put it back to the normal 40ish cc/min that I run. I did not think much else of it.

Today I looked over at the tank when the lights came on, and all the bows are hanging in the lower left corner of the tank, not doing any swimming around. All the fish really are quiet at this point in time, which is not normal for when lights click on. 

I looked up at my pH controller, and it was reading 6.5pH, which is above the cutoff point of 6.4. That made me wonder about the calibration. 

I got the solutions out, and no surprise, the calibration was off. Oops... 

After setting the controller properly, the tank was sitting around 5.8 or 5.9 pH. Mind you that my degasses pH is about 7.8. Needless to say, there was way too much gas in the water!

Good news is that I have extremely high surface agitation and two skimmers, which keeps a high oxygen concentration as well. Disaster was avoided, and I am working on dialing the system back in now.

Moral of the story is: Calibration takes about 10 minutes to do it properly. Just calibrate!


----------



## Greggz

Good story and illustrates something.

Keep good records. I keep a spreadsheet that I update every week to keep track of things like CO2 fill ups, lighting schedule, fert dosing, TDS readings, filter cleanings......and yes, pH probe calibration. I try to do it about once a month. And like you said, as long as you doing other maintenance of the tank, takes little effort to do so.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Good story and illustrates something.
> 
> Keep good records. I keep a spreadsheet that I update every week to keep track of things like CO2 fill ups, lighting schedule, fert dosing, TDS readings, filter cleanings......and yes, pH probe calibration. I try to do it about once a month. And like you said, as long as you doing other maintenance of the tank, takes little effort to do so.


Funny thing is I have been keeping a Google drive excel sheet for the past year now, but I continue to find new things to add! Time to refresh the look of the sheet and add some more X columns that are easy to read and filter on.


----------



## Grobbins48

@Greggz that gets me thinking; What are the things you are capturing on your excel records? Here is what I have so far:

Date
Tested water parameters
TDS pre water change
Water change amount (gallons)
Dosed fertilizer in ppm
Gallons I am dosing to (target dosing)
TDS post WC and dosing
What filter was cleaned
New CO2?
pH Controller Calibrated?
New Micro Mix?
General Notes

Would love thoughts on what else we can track against. Also, full disclosure- I have not been amazing at capturing all of these. I need to get better at TDS, as that is a great gauge once you know where you tanks hang around. Might be a good indicator something is off before plants/ algae tell you!


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> @Greggz that gets me thinking; What are the things you are capturing on your excel records? Here is what I have so far:
> 
> Date
> Tested water parameters
> TDS pre water change
> Water change amount (gallons)
> Dosed fertilizer in ppm
> Gallons I am dosing to (target dosing)
> TDS post WC and dosing
> What filter was cleaned
> New CO2?
> pH Controller Calibrated?
> New Micro Mix?
> General Notes
> 
> Would love thoughts on what else we can track against. Also, full disclosure- I have not been amazing at capturing all of these. I need to get better at TDS, as that is a great gauge once you know where you tanks hang around. Might be a good indicator something is off before plants/ algae tell you!


Sounds like you have the bases covered. 

And I have also been tracking TDS for some time now. If it starts creeping up there is a reason, and I do a mid week water change to bring it down.


----------



## Grobbins48

I have had some uncharacteristic BBA for the past couple of months, and I have been scratching my head a bit on it. Filters are clean, dosing is appropriate, lighting is good (recent increase unrelated, BBA has been around).

Then I has a realization- the BBA showed up when I added the 2nd Fluval 407. The strong flow of these two filters I believe is causing my issues. I watch the movement of plants very closely for a while today, and everywhere there is strong current, there is BBA. 

I has throttled both of the filters back to see how this helps. Some BBA removal is easy, some more difficult like what is in the grass. 

Time will tell, but I hope this cleans things up a bit.

In other news I did grab two 660's today from the local hydroponics store. I also grabbed one of the power veg 420's as well, because why not? They did have the agromax LED bloom tube. I did have one in my hand, but I ended up putting it back for now. I have plenty of fun bulbs to play with!

I also have another T5 fixture due to and error on my part for ordering. For now I have a backup. I think I have room for one more, so maybe I'll store it under the hood [emoji848]


----------



## Greggz

I am guessing you see a reduction of BBA with the reduction of flow.

The same thing happened to me a while back before I drilled out my spray bar holes to make them wider.

And good pick up on the 660's. It seems finding the right local hyrdoponic store is the key.


----------



## Grobbins48

Super Flora
Super purple
660
660
420
10,000K


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> I have had some uncharacteristic BBA for the past couple of months, and I have been scratching my head a bit on it. Filters are clean, dosing is appropriate, lighting is good (recent increase unrelated, BBA has been around).
> 
> Then I has a realization- the BBA showed up when I added the 2nd Fluval 407. The strong flow of these two filters I believe is causing my issues. I watch the movement of plants very closely for a while today, and everywhere there is strong current, there is BBA.
> 
> I has throttled both of the filters back to see how this helps. Some BBA removal is easy, some more difficult like what is in the grass.
> 
> Time will tell, but I hope this cleans things up a bit.
> 
> In other news I did grab two 660's today from the local hydroponics store. I also grabbed one of the power veg 420's as well, because why not? They did have the agromax LED bloom tube. I did have one in my hand, but I ended up putting it back for now. I have plenty of fun bulbs to play with!
> 
> I also have another T5 fixture due to and error on my part for ordering. For now I have a backup. I think I have room for one more, so maybe I'll store it under the hood [emoji848]


You're very fortunate to have a local store that has the 660 bulbs. I've been checking around and four local hydroponics stores do not carry those bulbs. As a matter of fact, none of them carry the PowerVeg T5 tubes, at all. 

I did find these on Amazon but know nothing about the brand. As you will see, they offer a 5 tube buy of a single color or a 5 tube buy with one of each color. For $10 a lamp, I may just pull the trigger and give them a try once I have my T5s up and running. 



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBTLCCT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_60AVYYHTCHV4MAS1B29V?psc=1


----------



## Grobbins48

This week led to having some short hair algae on many of my stem plants. I have not been testing the water parameters weekly, but with the change in light figured should keep a closer watch on the water column levels. 

PO4 was maybe 1ppm, and NO3 was somewhere north of 30. I am guessing the increased light led to my already pretty low PO4 levels to bottom out. I upped dosing this week to 6ppm for the 50 gallon water change, and added some met 14 today to help knock out the hair algae. 

I'll keep an eye on things a bit closer until things level out.


----------



## Grobbins48

ReeferRusso said:


> You're very fortunate to have a local store that has the 660 bulbs. I've been checking around and four local hydroponics stores do not carry those bulbs. As a matter of fact, none of them carry the PowerVeg T5 tubes, at all.
> 
> I did find these on Amazon but know nothing about the brand. As you will see, they offer a 5 tube buy of a single color or a 5 tube buy with one of each color. For $10 a lamp, I may just pull the trigger and give them a try once I have my T5s up and running.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBTLCCT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_60AVYYHTCHV4MAS1B29V?psc=1


I have looked at those a few times and wondered also! Curious to see what you think of them if you do grab them!


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> I have looked at those a few times and wondered also! Curious to see what you think of them if you do grab them!


I ended up contacting a total of 10 hydroponics stores within a 100 mile radius. No dice. So I ordered the set of 5 different Nobel lamps. They should be here Tuesday. 2 day Prime shipping is now 4 day Prime shipping. No biggie though because I'm waiting on macros and micros to be delivered too. Probably won't make the change from LED to T5 until after I have everything on hand.


----------



## Grobbins48

A look at the tank after the hacking yesterday. Glut seems to be helping knock out some of the hair algae, now the key is keeping am eye on things to keep it away!


----------



## Grobbins48

Although the hair algae was getting under control, I found I just did not have the time/ motivation/ patience/ want to focus in on tank parameters this week. Overall, I have decided that I want to refocus myself on enjoying the tanks more than trying to drive them hard. I also want to start enjoying the fish more thank I have recently. 

I have decided to drop down to 4 bulbs for 7 hours, with 2 bulbs for the final hour. 120 PAR was juts more than I wanted for right now, so I am back down to about 80PAR.

The current combo is 7 hrs of:

Flora Sun
3000K
Powerveg 660
Giesemann Actinic Blue

Then the last hour is a 660 and a super purple for a funky and fun look.

We will see how I feel over the next few weeks with the tanks and go from there.


----------



## Immortal1

Can certainly understand wanting to enjoy the fish more and less time with your arms in the water trimming/cleaning/detailing/cleaning...
Did I say cleaning twice? Oops.
"Then the last hour is a 660 and a super purple for a funky and fun look." I think I would like that the end of the day


----------



## Grobbins48

@Immortal1 here it is!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> @Immortal1 here it is!


Nice!


----------



## Grobbins48

Now that the weather is getting nicer the tanks get a bit less attention. If I am being honest I have lost a bit of interest for super high power flowery stems the past month or so. I think a lot of it is time, or lack there of. I am also trying to enjoy the tank in gneneral, the fish, and not trying to push as hard as I can. 

Anyways, the grass carpet took a big hit from hair algae, so that was ripped up this week. I also have been digging vibe of my 40 gallon more of a nature style. I once again added the wood back into the 75. Took about 3 min to scape it, but pretty pleased with the results. 

I am also down to 4 bulbs and am going for a warmer look. I think I am running a 5400K, 660, and two flora sun's. I'll need to do PAR reading on it, but it should be 80 or lower I think. 

We will see what the coming weeks bring and maybe find a way to reinvorgiat myself. Overall this tends to happen when the weather gets nice, and that's okay!


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## Immortal1

Kinda hate to say this - I really like the 40g tank. Somehow I can imagine bi-monthly trimming, bi weekly water changes, simple enjoyment


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Kinda hate to say this - I really like the 40g tank. Somehow I can imagine bi-monthly trimming, bi weekly water changes, simple enjoyment


You are spot on though. I rarely trim it, but do give it weekly water changes. I never really need to even clean the glass. Just an all around great tank!

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## Grobbins48

Bit of better color. Swapped the 5400 for a 6500 Tropic.










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## Grobbins48

Wow... not sure if I have ever gone this long without an update since starting this journal. With summer here and the world opening back up, work getting busy, and family time, the tank has taken a back seat. That said, I was prepared for this and set myself and the tank up for success. The tank was not/ is not neglected, rather changed a bit to a low maintenance, lowered power phase. 

Igniting is simple and balance, with two bulbs running most of the time, and a two hour spike with 4 bulbs. Weekly water changes still happen, although I'll admit that is what they are: water changes. 

Filter cleanings are few and far between, but not bad with the lower power and slower growth of plants. 

With that said, there is not amazing, peak condition growth, however most species are doing well. I am enjoying the tank and they fish as they are right now, and perhaps in the cooler months will kick things up again. 

I'll try to pop in a bit more to keep in touch- I do miss talking with this crew! 



















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## Greggz

Good to here from you and see an update.

And I get it what you mean in the summer. I've been very busy myself and trying to enjoy every minute that I can.

Tank is looking great in the current set up. I'm sure it's much easier to manage and a lot less trimming. Nothing wrong with that. 

And the Bows are looking great too!!


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## Grobbins48

No real update or changes, but it had been about 6 weeks so I figured I would drop back in. Starting to thing about what changes I may want to make to the tanks for fall/winter time when I invest more time into the tanks. 



















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## Grobbins48

Another month has gone by, and let's just say I was not on topic trimming! Even after a but of a chop there is still a ton of plant mass. 

Nothing really had been changed, although I have been out of micros for about a week so time to get them mixed up again. 

Pogo K and Barclaya are back in full force, and the trident fern is huge and sending off tons of daughter plants. 

Before










After










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## Immortal1

Kinda amazing how quickly a tank can go from picture ready to overgrown. Barclaya is looking very healthy


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## Greggz

Tank is looking great. That Barclaya can really become a monster.

If people could see how I treat mine they wouldn't believe it. I pull off four or five of the longest leaves every week, and yet it still looks like I let go wild. Wonderful plant but takes work to tame it!


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Kinda amazing how quickly a tank can go from picture ready to overgrown. Barclaya is looking very healthy


Yes, quite amazing! I had to do a large trim today and still a ton of mass... and this tank is honestly on autopilot. Show worthy? Nope, but I still love it!


Greggz said:


> Tank is looking great. That Barclaya can really become a monster.
> 
> If people could see how I treat mine they wouldn't believe it. I pull off four or five of the longest leaves every week, and yet it still looks like I let go wild. Wonderful plant but takes work to tame it!


So speaking of barclaya... I moved them to the back right corner. Last time I moved them they revolted and hibernated for about 6 or more months. I really had no choice though because they were taking up the entire tank! They will need to be hacked pretty hard the next few trims... and there are throwing off flowers and daughter bulbs. 

Here is a quick snap of some pogo k I gifted to a local hobbiest today. Just point and click under a 3000K and purple bulb (directly under the purple).









Here is the tank as of this evening. 










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## Greggz

Yep with Barclaya you never know when you move it. It's risky. If it melts, it will come back, but like you said could take months. But I agree you had to it was taking over the front of the tank.

Nice looking Pogo K, and man those Bows are getting big!


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## Grobbins48

I have been putting little effort but lots of thought into my two tanks these past few months. Although I really loved both the 40 breeder and the 75, it was starting to feel like two of the same tanks to me. With that, I decided to combine the two tanks into just the one, my 75. 

We have now added the main focal wood from the 40 into the 75, along with the 4 angel fish ad dozen or so neon tetras. 

So far I am really digging the vibe. Looking to keep things lower maintenance, but still cannot give up a few of the stems I love!

More photos to come when things settle in the coming days!

As for the 40 breeder, that is becoming a lake Tanganyika tank, specifically some shell dwellers. 










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## Grobbins48

Walked past and though this was a really nice shot.









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