# Getting back into tank keeping! (10gal corys and shrimp)



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Welcome back ☺


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

OVT said:


> Welcome back ☺


Thanks!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Update: Got the desk!!! It was hell moving it but it's gorgeous, and perfect. I'm so glad. 










Also picked up some dirt at the hardware store... I guess MGO is near-impossible to find in my city, so I got this other stuff, Whitney Farms Organic Planting Soil. It's made of basically the same stuff but the specs are a little different. 

MGO:









Whitney Farms:
linked because the image is HUUUUGE

So basically the Whitney Farms stuff has a lot more nitrogen in it (actually the total isn't that much higher, but)... Hopefully it'll be ok. I think it'll be ok but we'll see. 

Tomorrow, picking up some sand from the local pool supply store. We'll see how I'm doing with my chronic pain tomorrow after all of today's lifting, lol, but maybe I'll start cleaning the tank.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

That looks like a lovely oak desk. I would refinish and sell it and buy a proper stand that won't be stained by the water.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Playing off of Nordic's post, a piece of glass will also protect the desk top as well. This is what I use under my nano to protect the desk it sits on as well as on the fish tank stand that my new tank will be parked on. Particle board is a terrible thing. Yeah it's cheap, but...meh.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Nordic said:


> That looks like a lovely oak desk. I would refinish and sell it and buy a proper stand that won't be stained by the water.





Smooch said:


> Playing off of Nordic's post, a piece of glass will also protect the desk top as well. This is what I use under my nano to protect the desk it sits on as well as on the fish tank stand that my new tank will be parked on. Particle board is a terrible thing. Yeah it's cheap, but...meh.


Yeah, I was planning on putting down some sort of cover! Glass might be a good idea so I can still see the wood... I was just gonna go for a cheapo plastic tablecloth or something, lol. Back when I was a kid and kept tanks on my nice hardwood furniture (cherry?) my parents put down plastic placemats to protect the wood. It always worked out fine.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Actually I think I might go with this stuff for a table cover: link

I used some with my last tank and it was perfect. The granite pattern is kind-of nice, too.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Got sand and a table cover! It's browner than most pool filter sands I've seen, which is fine by me.

Also visited the LFS for the first time and oh my god it is AMAZING... I was just swooning the whole time... I think I freaked out some of the employees because I was fawning over everything so much lol. They had a HUGE selection of fish, their plants didn't look incredible (and they were PRICEY... I'll probably have better luck with the Top Fin plants at Petsmart, lmao), but whatever (edit: the plants in their dedicated planted show tanks looked great, the plants they kept in their stock tanks weren't terrible but were kinda sad, especially for what they were charging). They had so many shrimp too! Blues and yellows for the same price as RCS (well, ok, there was a 3 for... something deal just on the RCS, I forget exactly how much. I wanna say it was like $6 for 1 and $15 for 3? They were really good quality...), so now I have to decide (or find another store cos um that's kind-of a lot! I'm used to lower-quality RCS for like $3 each, lol)... They also had CRS and CBS but ouch my wallet, and I'm probably too much of a shrimp noob to try with them... lol. They had amanos too (I might get some when I stock, I forgot how much I love them) AND bamboo shrimp... God I really want a bamboo shrimp!!! They're so pricey though.  Well, I'll have plenty of time to decide while I set up and cycle! 

They also had a bunch of species of cories, it took me a long time to find the pygmies but they did have them! It was my first time seeing them in person... God they really are tiny! I almost want a bigger species but I know a 10gal is too small. It sounds like my girlfriend might have a bigger tank in storage though (20 long maybe?), and my desk is certainly big enough to hold another sooo... bigger cories in my future? They also had the neon green microrasboras...and a bunch of other tiny fish! I have so many options!! 

They also had a bunch of REALLLLLLY nice ADA tanks set up that were so incredibly gorgeous... A really good business plan, because they convinced me to go looking for hardscape, lol. I didn't splurge for seriyu stone (they had it!) but I did grab three nice pieces of some quartz-looking stuff for $5. I don't THINK that changes pH, does it...? I'll test it for sure though. They had a sandbox to model hardscape in, which was really neat, and very useful!

I miiiiight do some late-night tank cleaning in a little bit, we'll see. I'm really excited to get started, though!

Nickel for scale by the rocks, they're also brighter under better light--the light in my room is quite yellow.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Still haven't touched the tank, lol (it's so HOT out (and in, love not having AC, will be nicer once screens are on all the windows... soon hopefully lol))... i'm thinking maybe actually tonight but really who knows. But my test kit came! And so the moment we've all been waiting for...*DRUM ROLL*... I tested the pH. 

It looks like it's sitting somewhere between 7.4-7.6, which is I guess a little higher than I was hoping, but not bad, certainly not compared to the like... 8.2+ Hell Water from back home in Indy. 

I think the cories should be fine in that water, it's kind-of the upper end of their ideal, but not too ridiculous... Do I have any reason to believe otherwise?


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Whoops, I totally forgot about the existence of granite when IDing my rocks. They are granite without a doubt. Should still be fine in my tank!


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## SueD (Nov 20, 2010)

I have a PH of 7.5-7.6 and have several cories in different tanks. I have 2 of the dwarf species - habrosus, hastatus - as well as some regular sized cories - sterbai, schwartzi, duplicareus and another whose name escapes me. So your PH should be fine.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

SueD said:


> I have a PH of 7.5-7.6 and have several cories in different tanks. I have 2 of the dwarf species - habrosus, hastatus - as well as some regular sized cories - sterbai, schwartzi, duplicareus and another whose name escapes me. So your PH should be fine.


Awesome, thanks! I wasn't too worried because PH doesn't seem to be a huge deal usually unless you're trying to breed, it's off the charts or fluctuating a lot, but I did see some posts about cories dying in tanks with consistent, but too-high PH, so I wanted to be sure. It's nice to have confirmation.


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## TankPlanter (May 31, 2015)

Just a couple of thoughts for you to take or leave- I'm no expert, but I've found that more than 1 inch; of dirt brings problems (anaerobic soil, or even big gas bubbles that are just CO2 but disrupt the surface and color the water etc.) 

I've got about 3/4 inch and don't need ferts, and I also have Malaysian trumpet snails for aeration and such. You might know more than I do or have good experience with deeper dirt- I've just seen it go wrong when people go over 1 inch. Esp below sand, which limits gas exchange vs gravel.

Also, I love Microdevario kubotai. Aquatic Arts has some tank bred ones that have been great. And unlike most 'nano fish', their behavior makes them genuinely possible to keep well in a 10 gallon tank. Good luck!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

TankPlanter said:


> Just a couple of thoughts for you to take or leave- I'm no expert, but I've found that more than 1 inch; of dirt brings problems (anaerobic soil, or even big gas bubbles that are just CO2 but disrupt the surface and color the water etc.)
> 
> I've got about 3/4 inch and don't need ferts, and I also have Malaysian trumpet snails for aeration and such. You might know more than I do or have good experience with deeper dirt- I've just seen it go wrong when people go over 1 inch. Esp below sand, which limits gas exchange vs gravel.
> 
> Also, I love Microdevario kubotai. Aquatic Arts has some tank bred ones that have been great. And unlike most 'nano fish', their behavior makes them genuinely possible to keep well in a 10 gallon tank. Good luck!


I certainly don't have more experience, this is my first dirted tank, so thanks for the tip! I was going to read up extra before actually putting in substrate, but who knows if I'd come to this conclusion or not. I'll probably try it your way!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

WELL ok, I just got most of the gravel out of the tank and good news: there weren't any dead fish (the gravel was filled with dirt and like... yard plants for some reason? just all kinds of crap so I tossed it) but bad news: there's a crack, not a HUUGE one, but a sizable crack, in the corner of the tank. I don't know if it's my fault, or if it was there all along (still my fault for not checking closely enough if it was), but either way, ugh. So, I can get some silicone for $7 and fix it, I guess, and hope that works... OOOR I can take the Petco card I just found in my wallet and go buy a new 10gal for $3 more at their dollar-per-gallon sale. Ugh. I know it's the more responsible thing to get the silicone, but... A new tank would be virtually worry-free (and if it leaked or something I could return it). Decisions... 

In other news, I stole 3 rocks (pieces of some decorative rock that broke, I think) from campus... I figure they owe me given what I'm paying in tuition. I'm not sure what it is. It might be more granite or else schist? I'll soak them like the rest to make sure they're not going to rust or change my pH or anything.

Bump: Honestly, I should probably have some silicone on hand regardless, but...


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Do both, fix one tank, buy a second.
Just because something is a bad idea doesn't mean it can't be fun.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Nordic said:


> Do both, fix one tank, buy a second.
> Just because something is a bad idea doesn't mean it can't be fun.


Bought the second tank yesterday. Keeping the first and will probably get around to fixing it eventually. Definitely should be fun, lol.

In other news, I just cleaned all three of my secondhand filters. The one that came with the bro-ken tank (Top Fin 10 HOB) was surprisingly not that nasty... It looked pretty gross initially but that was mostly cobwebs and calcium deposits that came off pretty easily with vinegar, paper towel and plenty of water. One of the Whisper 10i's was brand spanking new so I just rinsed it... The other one was absolutely covered in algae and the impeller was pretty cruddy, but I got most, if not all of it off with lots of scrubbing and rinsing, water and vinegar again. The 10i's are super weird... I guess I've just never really encountered an internal filter before, lol. I don't understand the appeal...but whatever, I've got them, so I'll use them :grin2:.

I also wiped down the tank with vinegar, I'm letting everything air out and by the time it's cool enough to open my window tonight, I'm gonna fill up the tank with water and, assuming it's level and watertight, a little bleach, and run -all- the filters (no media, I'll ultimately be using new sponge) to nuke any remaining algae or bugs. That should be fun.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Lol, I don't know what I was thinking, planning to fill the tank for the first time in my room... I'm about to fill it up on the porch. Also going to start soaking the rocks more likely to have big iron deposits.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Used a rock key on the new rocks, I think they're basalt actually... Attached a picture, feel free to chime in. 

Sounds like they should be OK in my tank, going to start soaking them now. The tank is full and sitting on the porch; so far no issues.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Just put everything that fits in the dishwasher.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Rocks are soaking, tank is watertight and now running full of bleach water (like... 2 splashes of bleach / 10 gallons of water) with three filters and the crappy aquarium decorations that came with the bro-ken tank... might as well sanitize them now so I can resell, lol. It's a handsome tank.

The good news: 

No leaks
Filters work
Junk is visibly being knocked out of them
Rocks didn't bubble or anything when I submerged them (no surprise, but, yay)

The bad(?) news:

The tank is about 1/4 inch off level...But I know the desk is sturdy and flat, and that seems to matter infinitely more from everything I've read.
My room smells a little (not hugely, but a little) like a swimming pool and I'm probably going to suffocate and die overnight (I won't, that's why the window is open, it's OK).
I have to be extra careful to keep my cat out of the room because he would definitely drink bleach water and die if given the chance.
On that note, the Top Fin filter doesn't have a lid (??? I thought that was a standard feature of HOBs but I guess not, ok) so if I use that one, my cat will definitely drink out of it, and I'm not sure if that's bad...

I think everything will be OK:thumbsup:

Bump: Oh, and the filters are nearly silent when the tank is full! It's kind-of incredible... I've had tanks with sponge filters and Aquaclear HOBs and neither have been this quiet.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Nordic said:


> Just put everything that fits in the dishwasher.


Oops, didn't see this. I would have, but I don't have a dishwasher!

Anyways, update:
Tank ran overnight/all day full of bleach water, 3 filters and the decorations. My room smelled like a pool but I didn't die or anything, lol. 24 hours and some mild chemical burns later, the tank is drained, wiped clean, and everything that was in it has been rinsed/briefly soaked in dechlorinator and all of it is airing out. 

Planning on putting in substrate and rocks sometime this weekend (OK, I know the mystery rocks have been soaking for only like a day, but I'm like 95% sure they're basalt and they should be fine, so). Hopefully will be buying a plant package from someone on here. I was thinking about doing DSM but the package contains süßwassertang (note... pet peeve - people spelling it "subwassertang..." If you're gonna anglicize it, it's suesswassertang  !It's rough learning German :icon_lol and according to that one site that lists plants that can be grown emersed, süßwassertang can't, so. I guess I'm starting submersed!

Bump: Er, actually, looking it up on here, it looks like some people have been successful growing süßwassertang emersed, but keeping humidity VERY high all the time... I'm not home enough, or dedicated enough to deal with that, lol. I'll stick with submersed...


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Try and get some mini süßwassertang (pelia), the stuff grows like moss if you mince it up and brush it on.
The normal süßwassertang has a tendency to get unruly in tanks, with little bits going here and there.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Nordic said:


> Try and get some mini süßwassertang (pelia), the stuff grows like moss if you mince it up and brush it on.
> The normal süßwassertang has a tendency to get unruly in tanks, with little bits going here and there.


It was part of a package and I'm pretty sure it's the normal variation. I'm a pretty big fan of letting what happens happen though, so I'll be OK either way, lol.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I started soaking my dirt last night not really knowing why I was doing it, exactly, except that it's a thing that a lot of people do and that a lot of people seem to regret not doing. It's going fine, I guess, but what's weird is that I still don't know why I'm doing it... I've seen folks say they do it to reduce gas bubbles in the tank, and maybe that's what I'm doing (I haven't seen too much gas from the bucket since right after I put water in, though), but the biggest reason cited is to let the larger wood pieces to float to the top and be skimmed off. But my dirt doesn't really seem to contain any very large wood pieces, and what's more, the wood pieces (even the largest ones!) don't really seem to be floating to the top; they want to stay mixed. I pulled out a few large (like, 2in max, lol) pieces that were kind-of sort-of floating, but there weren't many, and digging around, I found a few more, but they had stayed with the rest of the dirt... Is this basically the experience soaking MGO (since I have a different brand)? Like, I'm fine with soaking it, it gives me something to do while I wait for my plants (I decided I'm not actually putting in substrate until I have my plants), but... I thought I'd have more noticeable results, I guess.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Well, my plants are _supposed_ to be coming today... USPS tracking says they're out for delivery (since 9:30 this morning! It's 4:30 now). I thought the mail would be here by now. In the meantime, though, I've put in my substrate. I dumped the water off the dirt I had soaking and put about an inch in.








I rinsed my sand five or six times (I'm really glad I did, too, it was kind-of dusty! I think part of it was that I had just used the same bucket for dirt and didn't rinse it as well as I probably could have before putting the sand in, but) and then started putting it down.

What I didn't account for was how wet dirt + wet sand = excess water that rises to the top of the substrate. I now understand the issue with the wood chips in organic dirt... But I couldn't get all of them out without _really_ sifting it anyways, and if I had wanted pure mud, I'd have gone with topsoil, sooo... Whatever I guess. Maybe some of the dirt water that rose to the top will help start my cycle, lol. It'll all be fine with enough water changes, I'm sure. 

I ultimately lay down 1-2 inches of sand everywhere in the tank. I did put probably too much effort into sloping the substrate so that it's just a little deeper in the back and on the sides so that mulm moves to the middle-front of the tank, making it easier to vacuum. I probably didn't need to do that when I'm planning on having shrimp, anyways, but I guess it'll make a nice little pocket for them to feed? I couldn't stop myself once I started, lol.
















(sorry for the poor image quality, my ipod camera isn't the best)

I haven't put in my rocks yet, I really needed a break for lunch, but that's what's next...


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

My plants arrived, finally, around 6:30! They all look pretty good, and the seller threw in some free dwarf water lettuce (which is PERFECT because I wanted some floaters, but there weren't any in the package)!

Before then, I set up my hardscape, and ultimately decided on this:








But then I smushed up a second rock against the leftmost rock (well, the neighbor piece, apparently, because they fit perfectly), so now I have one big(ger) rock. I didn't get a picture of that before planting.
Here's the tank, planted:








I just kind of sprinkled the süßwassertang around in the front, hopefully that works, lol. I didn't feel like bothering trying to attach or contain it.
The crypt (undulata) seems to be melting a little, no surprise really. Hopefully it will perk back up soon. 

Here's the really exciting part... My room is close enough to the backyard that I can just drag the hose in to fill. I've never done that before, but I want to try. Going to start shortly. Pray for me (or whatever you do)!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Lol ok, I filled and it's a MESS... I used a plastic bag but the hose started filling BEHIND the bag and messed up my substrate, of course. Note: Filling a tank with a hose is a 2-person job if you don't want it to make a mess. I had to replant like half of everything. The süßwassertang was not happy just laying around, it got knocked everywhere and sucked up by the filter lol... I stuffed some of it 1. into the crack between the two center rocks and 2. between the right-front rock and the glass and took the rest and tied it onto that rock under a piece of plastic netting from an organic potato bag. I didn't secure it super well so if it grows, it'll probably go everywhere again (or, rather, get sucked up by the filter. I don't really care if it's everywhere, I just don't want it stuck to the filter... Maybe once I have my prefilter sponge on it'll be OK, lol, but I wanted to keep that off until right before I stock). I'll deal with that when it happens.

For now, I eat cake.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I haven't quite decided whether I'm going to tie up the rest of the süßwassertang in netting and stuff it back between the two center rocks, or affix it to the leftmost rocks. Leaning towards the former. Planning on doing that later today. Everything else is about the same, except that the tank seems warmer than it should be (like, I have the heater set in the low-mid 70s and it's in the upper 70s)... I'm trying to figure out what's going on.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> I haven't quite decided whether I'm going to tie up the rest of the süßwassertang in netting and stuff it back between the two center rocks, or affix it to the leftmost rocks. Leaning towards the former. Planning on doing that later today. Everything else is about the same, except that the tank seems warmer than it should be (like, I have the heater set in the low-mid 70s and it's in the upper 70s)... I'm trying to figure out what's going on.


I haven't touched the süßwassertang yet; probably actually won't get to that today (need to start saying "up next" and not a specific timeframe lol, far too disabled to stick to that). I do think I may have figured out my heater though, I think it's just +3-4 degrees off... I have it set at 73 now and it's holding around 76-77. (it was about 75 I think when I got home, after having the heater unplugged since morning, and shouldn't have gotten warmer since then. I doubt I can actually get a refund for this (for one thing, I'm using a 100w heater in a 10 gallon tank... I thought doing that was a common practice, but the manual says something about too-low water volume for the heater...? even though it's supposed to detect the water temperature and heat according to that...? so I'm not really sure if I'm covered, but for another thing, I'm pretty sure that kind of mis-calibration is pretty common with aquarium heaters, especially the cheaper ones, no?), and I can deal... I wanted the tank around 75, so I can set it to 71. I'll keep monitoring the temp though, of course, to make sure it doesn't start going off the charts. I also considered, but don't think my thermometer can very well be inaccurate, as it's alcohol, not digital or anything...


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Just ran my first tests for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte:

baseline (tap): 0 ppm of all three

current tank reading: .25 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrIte, 0 nitrAte. 

It could just as easily be 0 ammonia, but I THIIINK there's a difference... I haven't fed the tank anything yet, but there is the dirt water that seeped up when I put the sand in, which I think was enough to account for that kind of reading. I don't know, what do other people think (tap on left, tank on right)?


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Well, regardless of whether the .25 was real or not, today I put in a stocking with a good dash of fish flakes in it, which should get a proper cycle started. Last time I started a tank, I cycled with fish flakes, but just threw them in haphazardly. I thought I'd try it with a stocking this time to see if I could do it without so much mess. I left the back open (held under the tank lid) so I can easily add more if I need to. 

Also, I finally tackled the loose süßwassertang. Well, kind-of. I re-wrapped the rightmost stone, and wrapped about half the loose süßwassertang in another piece of the netting and put it back between the middle rocks. I ended up just letting the rest settle where it would (yes, even on the filter intake) because I didn't want to risk all of it dying in the netting if that didn't work out. It probably didn't actually, but it really seems like what I had duplicated since Monday. 

Any thoughts on how fast the süßwassertang should grow under the mesh?


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I have never been able to get the large süßwassertang to grab hold of any rock or wood.
Best bet is to roll it in a ball and wedge it in somewhere. It is a bit of a pain when vacuuming the tank though.
I spend as much time fishing bits out of the bucket afterwards as vacuuming.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Nordic said:


> I have never been able to get the large süßwassertang to grab hold of any rock or wood.
> Best bet is to roll it in a ball and wedge it in somewhere. It is a bit of a pain when vacuuming the tank though.
> I spend as much time fishing bits out of the bucket afterwards as vacuuming.


Ooh, okay. I was hoping it would just grow through the mesh and more-or-less stay there, but I guess that would be attaching, too, lol. I'd heard about people doing that with "süßwassertang," but it sounds like it gets mixed up with (mini) pelia a lot, so maybe that's what they were talking about... I'm gonna do a little more research on peoples' methods and let it stay as is for a bit, but I'll probably end up unwrapping it after all. Maybe I'll get some moss eventually to serve the same function. Thanks for the tip!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Ack! The stocking full of fish food may have been a mistake; I just went to turn off my tank's lights and it was covered in what looked like saprolegnia fungus. I pulled it and tossed it. I'll probably continue with liquified fish food... Hopefully this doesn't make for problems in the future 

Bump: Ammonia is at about 1ppm now. Haven't tested nitrite or nitrate yet today.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Ammonia still hovering around 0.5-1ppm, nitrite now somewhere between 0 and 0.25ppm, nitrate still 0. Fed the tank a little more. Some of my plants are still melting and I'm trying not to worry it too much, but I did notice a cute little sprout coming off a bacopa stalk (even though the top part of the stem is about ready to fall off, lol)! There were a few more like that, too, but none quite as cute.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Ammonia still 0.5-1 ppm (I really can't tell between the two colors in the liquid? I can on the chart but the liquid never really seems like either of them so maybe it's at 0.75 or something, lol), nitrite now at about 0.5ppm (!!), nitrate still 0.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I should be asleep, but I'm excited! I was just looking at the Facebook page of this very new LFS, and while backreading, I saw that they got some habrosus cories in! I thought I was going to have to settle for pygmaeus but if the habrosus are still there, and look healthy (er, and are as cheap/cheaper, lol), I'll probably get them instead... I like the pygmies but they're soooo small I didn't even realize what 1 inch catfish looked like until I saw them... Habrosus are a little bigger and I think act more like the larger cories than the pygmies, which is what I wanted. ...Now I feel kind-of bad for favoring the habrosus, lol. Maybe I'll end up getting both and no rasboras.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Ammonia now decidedly at 0.5ppm (I think before it was at 1 or somewhere in-between, what I have now is so distinctly 0.5 (I mean, according to the chart) that I'm no longer confused), nitrIte at either 2 or 5ppm (talk about colors I can't tell the difference between! I think 5 is supposed to be slightly darker? I'm pretty sure it's at 2 anyways because a overnight jump from 0.5 to 5, while not impossible, would be kind-of ridiculous... doesn't really matter anyways, I'm happy with either and it should fall to zero in the next days). Haven't bothered to test nitrAte yet, not really concerned since there's still a nitrIte spike happening.

Bump: Cycling a tank feels like magic to me every time, though... Thank you, bacteria!

Bump: Oh, and my crypt is growing and the dwarf water lettuce is starting to reproduce! Multiple bacopa stems are putting out those tiny little sprouts on top and are generally perking up. My wisteria in the middle is looking _really_ nice and most, if not all of the other wisteria stems are putting out new leaves, too! I'm such a proud plant parent... (Sorry for the second bump, I keep thinking of things to say)


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## Slim64684 (Oct 24, 2015)

Are you still using the stock 15w hood? What about co2 or excel?


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## The Big Buddha (Jul 30, 2012)

Post 37, I think your bacopa is upside down.

.


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## Altheora (Aug 10, 2016)

Pro-tip: Both Corys and rasboras do well with bettas, if you'd like to add a pretty single male to the tank once it's cycled, for a bump of color.

Good luck! Nice granite.


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Just an FYI, you should not be breathing chlorine for a prolonged period of time! My brother treated a large amount of water with bleach, took a nap...ended up in the hospital with nasal and respiratory burns. 
Be safe out there!!


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## SueD (Nov 20, 2010)

geisterwald said:


> I should be asleep, but I'm excited! I was just looking at the Facebook page of this very new LFS, and while backreading, I saw that they got some habrosus cories in! I thought I was going to have to settle for pygmaeus but if the habrosus are still there, and look healthy (er, and are as cheap/cheaper, lol), I'll probably get them instead... I like the pygmies but they're soooo small I didn't even realize what 1 inch catfish looked like until I saw them... Habrosus are a little bigger and I think act more like the larger cories than the pygmies, which is what I wanted. ...Now I feel kind-of bad for favoring the habrosus, lol. Maybe I'll end up getting both and no rasboras.


No reason you can't get both species of dwarf cories along with rasboras in a 10g. I prefer the habrosus, too, as well as the hastatus. I didn't have much luck with pygmaeus for some reason but the other two have done very well for me.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

The Big Buddha said:


> Post 37, I think your bacopa is upside down.
> 
> .


Lol, yeah, my wife and I were just laughing about that.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

SueD said:


> No reason you can't get both species of dwarf cories along with rasboras in a 10g. I prefer the habrosus, too, as well as the hastatus. I didn't have much luck with pygmaeus for some reason but the other two have done very well for me.


Yeah, I guess that wouldn't be too bad in terms of stocking. I kind-of wanted to stock on the lighter side though, partially for more of a chance for the shrimp to shine (visually, not concerned about any of those fish eating them), but partially because I've decided only to run the one Top Fin 10 filter because more than that would just be way too much flow, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with only the one filter for a borderline overstocked tank... Anyways, I've got two extra filters, extra substrate and a 6 foot long desk, I'll probably have a second tank within the year lol.

Do you have any idea of what went wrong with the pygmaeus, if you feel like sharing? It seems like everyone has a sort of sweet spot with one of the breeds of pygmy cories, but there has to be some common denominator in why certain species just don't do well in certain peoples' tanks, I just don't know what it is (and want to, to avoid it lol).

Bump:


Slim64684 said:


> Are you still using the stock 15w hood? What about co2 or excel?


Yep, still using that. No CO2 or excel, I'm kind-of too lazy (and cheap) for that (plus excel kills süßwassertang as far as I know lol). Also, I know people still do (and have success), but I've read it's not recommended to use CO2 with dirted tanks. Planning on going low tech all the way. Might start dosing minimal ferts or change the bulb to something at a more optimal kelvin for growing plants if I have problems down the road.

Bump:


The Big Buddha said:


> Post 37, I think your bacopa is upside down.
> 
> .


YEAH... yeah I know... I made this mistake with a number of my stems when I was planting, lol. I flipped most of them after but missed this one I guess, and now it's growing... I don't want to just bury the new growth! I think it'll be ok... It's even funnier when considering that I've had huge success with bacopa in old tanks, and I don't think ever planted any stems upside down before... Just goes to show you how out of practice I am, I guess :icon_lol:.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Altheora said:


> Pro-tip: Both Corys and rasboras do well with bettas, if you'd like to add a pretty single male to the tank once it's cycled, for a bump of color.
> 
> Good luck! Nice granite.


Yeah, they do, but shrimp won't necessarily (and I want *lots* of shrimp)! I think I'll get enough color with my shrimp and rasboras (if I have them). Thanks for the thought though!

And thanks! I'm really proud of my rocks, lol, even if they are tiny and overpriced...

Bump:


ichy said:


> Just an FYI, you should not be breathing chlorine for a prolonged period of time! My brother treated a large amount of water with bleach, took a nap...ended up in the hospital with nasal and respiratory burns.
> Be safe out there!!


Yeah for sure! Thanks for the concern. It was manageable with the window open and fan on, and it was only one night (and not a ton of bleach to begin with), but still not the safest thing I've ever done, and I'm not sure I'd recommend it, lol. I didn't feel amazing the next morning, but not terrible either and I'm fine as far as I can tell.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Doubting myself now; should I pull and replant the upside-down bacopa? Would it bounce back faster when right side up? It's been upside-down like that for about two weeks now, lol.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> Doubting myself now; should I pull and replant the upside-down bacopa? Would it bounce back faster when right side up? It's been upside-down like that for about two weeks now, lol.


Well, I just tugged on it out of curiosity and it's rooted well enough that it resists a _lot_ when I pull on it. I figure it'll be OK, if a little slower growing than the rest. Never had bacopa root that quickly in just sand... Plants really like dirt, huh.

Nitrites have stayed over 5ppm for the past couple days and I'm getting tired of tannin-stained water; I'm gonna do a PWC to lower nitrite as per user Diana's suggestion (not here, but elsewhere) to encourage growth of nitrite-processing bacteria and to get out loose wood chips before my plants are grown out too much to do that easily. Will of course dose liquified fish food after.


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## SueD (Nov 20, 2010)

geisterwald said:


> Do you have any idea of what went wrong with the pygmaeus, if you feel like sharing? It seems like everyone has a sort of sweet spot with one of the breeds of pygmy cories, but there has to be some common denominator in why certain species just don't do well in certain peoples' tanks, I just don't know what it is (and want to, to avoid it lol).


I really have no idea. When I set up my last 20L about a year and half ago, I wanted all three species of the dwarf cories in there. I still have the habrosus and hastatus, but the pygmaeus slowly died off over several months. The tank also has Vietnamese WCMM and dwarf pencilfish, all of which are doing fine. The only thing that comes to mind is perhaps too much competition for food?


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

SueD said:


> I really have no idea. When I set up my last 20L about a year and half ago, I wanted all three species of the dwarf cories in there. I still have the habrosus and hastatus, but the pygmaeus slowly died off over several months. The tank also has Vietnamese WCMM and dwarf pencilfish, all of which are doing fine. The only thing that comes to mind is perhaps too much competition for food?


Oh, that's too bad . I have read that habrosus and hastatus are much more feisty about competing for food than pygmaeus, so I think that's a definite possibility.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Well, I messed up. Not massively, but still.

A couple days ago I got tired of manually grinding fish flakes to minuscule pieces every time I needed to feed the tank (I don't have a designated grinder for this and don't care to buy one, so it's not the quickest process), so I added some to a jar with water and shook it until they broke down as small as I could get them. My thought was that the flakes would rot in the jar, producing ammonia, and I could just dose the water - no mess, no hassle (and yeah I know I could just buy some ammonia but I have so many fish flakes, I am never going to use this many, and these in particular are probably stale anyways). BUT, not wanting to stink up my room with an open jar of fish flakes, and I guess scared of what would happen if I left it to rot closed (mold? deadly anaerobic bacteria?), after making this concoction, I put it in the fridge. For the past day or two, I've been dosing my tank with the water.

Today, when I tested ammonia and nitrites in my tank, I noticed that ammonia had hit rock bottom (nitrites, despite the water change--which did help a little with tannins--are still off the charts). Thinking that I just hadn't used enough of the water, and that maybe I could more accurately dose knowing the approximate concentration of ammonia in the fish flake water, I decided to test that--and did. As the test developed and showed 0ppm ammonia, I realized my mistake: Putting the stuff in the fridge slowed (or halted) decomposition. Duh. That's the entire point of refrigeration.

So I added more flake to the jar, broke it all up and fed the tank with some of the particles instead of just the water. I'll test tomorrow (or maybe even before I go to sleep tonight, I don't know if there will be a change that soon, but) to make sure that worked, but I'm pretty sure it's going to, lol. Whoops.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Something's weird... Ammonia is still reading 0 ppm? I've tested probably five times over the past two days and I haven't gotten a positive reading yet. I dosed fish food from the fridged solution yesterday, and after that didn't do anything (I'd guess I tested 4 or 5 hours after, and then again ~20 hours after) I mixed some new, dry flake with tank water and dumped that in. Tested probably half an hour after, then two? hours after, then ~8? hours after and nothing! Is it possible my test kit broke literally overnight? Could high levels of dissolved solids be interfering with my readings (I saw a post about that...? but I've fed tanks with fish food before without this happening)? Are my bacteria just THAT hungry? I've been feeding the tank a LOT... 

Nitrites, of course, are still off the charts. I'm gonna do a late night PWC and feed the tank again (maybe a -bunch- this time). I'll test it in the morning. God, this is annoying. I just wish I knew what was up!

(Oh, and I also ordered a TDS meter and KH/GH tests. I figure if I'm going to be busting big $$$ on shrimp (well, not as much as I could but still) I might as well not kill them. Also checked the copper levels reported by my water company, which should be fine... Only like .03ppm.)


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Oookay, did my water change... It knocked the nitrite down to about 2ppm (NOW I can tell the difference between 2 and 5, lol). During the process, my second anubias broke free of its string (which rotted ridiculously quickly)--its sibling did the same earlier this week, so I re-secured both of them with rubber bands. I'm gonna re-attach later with super glue, probably, as the rubber band situation doesn't look super fish-safe (there's a gap between the band and the rock that I don't like the look of). I also let the rest of my süßwassertang free, having freed the little pouch between the centerpiece rocks earlier this week. I've decided to just let it grow where it will. Surprise, the string attaching that to the rock was rotted too. Really wonder what kind of supernatural rotting powers this string has, because most accounts I've read of people using string to attach anubias to rock has it rotting a month+ later, not in two weeks... Finally, I added a prefilter (AquaClear foam with a hole cut in the center) in anticipation of shrimp (that I won't actually be adding until a while after I get my fish, probably, but whatever). I was going to wait to do that, but I've already got most of the larger dirt particles out of the tank with water changes, and I figure more biofiltration capacity can't hurt.

Bump: Oh, and I fed the tank a _lot_. If there's no ammonia reading come morning, I'm pretty sure the problem's with the test (or the particulates). I may yet buy a bottle of ammonia, lol.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Argh, still no reading on ammonia. I don't know what the issue is. I think I'm probably gonna get a bottle of pure ammonia today to test my kit and make sure it didn't just randomly break...


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Ok, ok, ok, my test kit isn't broken. I don't know what was going on with the flake but I picked up some pure ammonia (an ENTIRE GALLON was all I could find, for $5... I'm set for life, I guess). It's 3%, which works out about perfectly that 1ml ~ 1ppm in my ten gallon (really like 1.3, but my tank is filled a little less than it could be, so). I tested the kit first with some ammonia mixed in distilled water, which registered (I can't even tell what the reading is, I think it might be off the charts, but it doesn't matter really). I tested the tank after dosing ~1ml--the syringe I'm using is HUGE so it's hard to be precise that small--and, sure enough, 1ppm. Cool. I also bought some super glue gel at the hardware store and stuck my anubias to the center rocks. Back on track, yay. Oh, and nitrites are still around 2ppm I think... Maybe 5? Who knows. Anyways, it's OK.

Unrelated, I don't think I've ever used ammonia for anything, but the smell is very, very familiar. Chemistry class? Maybe. Deja vu from a chemical is a trip, lol.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Ha, I figured out where I remembered the ammonia smell from... Bleaching my hair, lol. I guess most hair bleaches contain ammonia persulfate, so maybe that's why? Or maybe they're just similar smells. 

Anyways, my cycle is hanging in there. The bacteria are suffering a little I think with high nitrite levels, as I can't really get them down very well. I'll probably do a water change tomorrow; too tired now. In more interesting news, all my dwarf water lettuce is growing steadily! I have one big piece in particular that's going hog wild; it recently let down a big, furry root and has a bunch of little leaves. All the other dwarf water lettuce, though, while growing, keeps getting stuck in little nooks and crannies, on the heater wire, the filter, thermometer... I might make a tubing corral soon.

All my other plants are doing pretty well too. The ones in the middle/back seem to be doing best, probably because the sand is thinner there and I presume they're getting at least a little more light. Nothing's really suffering, though, which is cool.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

You have to understand that you have very little plant mass in there, things are going to take a while before the tank can take care of most of its own waste. I'd buy LOADS more plants if your budget allows.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Nordic said:


> You have to understand that you have very little plant mass in there, things are going to take a while before the tank can take care of most of its own waste. I'd buy LOADS more plants if your budget allows.


Yeah, I know it's not very heavily planted; my budget doesn't really allow for very many more plants, lol--though I did see some cheap hornwort at a LFS that I'm considering. I'm a college student, and not a rich one at that. I've done fine before with a tank about this planted, though, provided it was fully cycled, and I don't have an issue with waiting for this tank to cycle fully. I figure once my stems get even larger (and they are getting there), I'll just replant trimmings.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Cheap fast growing floaters will really speed up your tank's ability to deal with ammonia. Just keep an eye as most of them also drop dead leaves and roots on the floor, which needs a bit of management, or a large snail population. Before you can have algae, you need algae spores and before they can develop into algae they need ammonia or become nitrate deprived and fail to develop (they can not absorb nitrate till fully formed). So, when your tank is not able to cope with the initial ammonia levels, you are laying the groundwork for an algae outbreak a little bit further down the line. A solid initial planting goes a long way in preventing this.

Using ammonia is the fastest way to cycle a tank without fish, not necessarily the best.
There are some people saying they have used ammonia and had no problems with algae. Or that algae have predetermined growth cues ( a little harder without adequate supply of key nutrients).

So to some extent I have to add the caveat that is is mostly my impression, there are so many variables, how many plants did they have in their tanks, what temperature were they running? How much surface agitation, how much light?

I just prefer to plant a tank and leave it alone for about two months, things grow, things die, but there is a gradual ramp of appropriate bacteria. I switch my tank lights on at 6 in the morning and off about 10pm, I only have the thinnest sliver of algae on white rocks directly under the lights. That tank has been up since November last year.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

My TDS meter, KH and GH tests came today. KH is 2, GH is also 2 out of the tap, KH is 4, GH is 3 in the tank (one of my rocks is doing this maybe? or something in the dirt? I don't know but if it's only 2 degrees higher after almost 3 weeks running I'm not super concerned. I'll keep an eye on it anyways). I guess I need a GH booster before I can get shrimp :'(... At least I'm starting low instead of high, though.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I've got nematodes! I've probably had them for a while, I just wasn't looking for them, lol. After much research I think they're not anything harmful, just detritus worms. They're kinda cute


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Made an executive decision (possibly temporary but sounding like a good idea) - If I find some nice blue shrimp (or go with the ones from the LFS which are more than I want to pay but I mean they're pretty good quality) and decide I want a fish besides the cories (which I'm leaning towards now, I don't know how far off it's going to be, as I want to get the cories first, and then the shrimp probably at least a month later, and then any other fish), I'm going to get _Microdevario kubotai_. If I go with yellow shrimp, I'm getting _Boraras brigittae_, _Boraras maculatus_, or something else tiny and red/orange (assuming I can find them). I'd also like orange neos if I could find them, so if that happens, maybe black neons? Not sure. Kinda worried about them eating too many babies, too. Oranges and CPDs would look really nice... Hmm. 

Also, oooooooh my god I just found out about _Microrasbora erythromicron_... god they are so beautiful. That's the stuff of dreams right there. I've never seen them in a store, or even heard of them though until now so I bet they're hard to find / $$$$. Someday maybe.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

It is always best to start with the best stock you can find, even if it costs a bit more.
A turd will only take _so _much polishing.

It is not too hard to stratify a tank to protect small inhabitants. Oak leaves on the ground is a very natural looking way of giving cover from prying eyes from above. Or a nice flat rock lifted a tiny bit off the substrate by lying ona few other rocks, like a table with short legs. Bunches of java moss are good too.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Nordic said:


> It is always best to start with the best stock you can find, even if it costs a bit more.
> A turd will only take _so _much polishing.
> 
> It is not too hard to stratify a tank to protect small inhabitants. Oak leaves on the ground is a very natural looking way of giving cover from prying eyes from above. Or a nice flat rock lifted a tiny bit off the substrate by lying ona few other rocks, like a table with short legs. Bunches of java moss are good too.


Yeah, for sure. I wasn't going to go with lower quality shrimp if I didn't get the ones at the LFS; I'd be buying comparable shrimp online, just hopefully cheaper :icon_lol:. All the fish at the LFS I'm looking at look really healthy too. 

That's good advice about hiding spots, thanks! I was planning on getting some moss eventually anyways, so I might well go with that.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Hello again, it's been a while since I updated... I just did a -massive- water change, like 75% and I was able to get nitrites down to like 2ppm. They're seriously out of control. The good news is, though, that my nitrates are at 40ppm. So maybe the nitrite spike will end soon? I also have diatoms growing on my rocks... My white granite isn't looking so pristine anymore, lol.

The plants are growing steadily; one of the anubias put out a new leaf, and the dwarf water lettuce continues to explode. Bacopa and wisteria are growing more slowly, but still well. My detritus worm population has gone down significantly since I last posted; I think they're running out of food. 

I'm rethinking _Corydoras pygmaeus_ after all... I'm starting to think the bottom of the tank will be busy enough with the shrimp, so getting a cory like _habrosus_ that stays more consistently on the bottom might just make things crowded... Plus, the LFS stocks pygmies, so I might well go with them.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Try and keep your filters clean until you get things under control.
Adult corys can be clumsy hippos. I sometimes feel so bad for the young ones at eating times.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

My tank is about cycled, I think! Nitrites were hanging out at 2ppm since I did that big water change, and I just tested and they're at 0 (or -very- close, I thought I detected the tiniest hint of purple but not nearly enough to be .25ppm). Ammonia is hitting 0 (or almost 0) after about 12 hours (I've been dosing to 1ppm twice a day as per user Diana's suggestion for a planted tank) . I'm gonna let it run at least until Sunday afternoon... Into next week if I can be that patient, lol. I'm gonna start by stocking just 5 cories (pygmies probably) and bump it up to 10 or 11 after a couple weeks or a month. Then I'll get shrimp eventually, then maybe some micro fish. I'm excited!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I might have lied about waiting until Sunday afternoon... My partner is working Sunday, so tomorrow (today) we're taking a short road trip to pick up some GH booster from a local-ish member. On the way back we're likely hitting up someone else for some snails (MTS and ramshorn). In the middle of these two stops is a LFS that I want to check out, and if they have healthy cories at a good price I'm going to get them, oops. The tank is cycled, ammonia and nitrite are hitting 0 from 1-2ppm within roughly 12 hours. I've still been dosing twice a day. Nitrates were at like 160ppm+ so I'm currently doing another massive water change. If I can't get them down to at least 40 I'll do another PWC tomorrow.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Water change is done, nitrate is now down to 40ppm but I'll probably do a regular-sized water change (or a little more) tomorrow before leaving just for peace of mind. In other news, all my plants are doing pretty alright but my dwarf water lettuce has REALLY taken off. Like, I thought it had exploded before, but now it's covering a good eighth or so of the water surface and not only have the original plants grown massive, but they've split into I-don't-even-know-how-many plants. At least 10, I think. I started with like 3 a month ago! I know this is basically to be expected with floaters, but my last tank (which was otherwise quite successful) wouldn't grow frogbit or duckweed for some reason . Too much surface agitation, maybe.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Went and got the GH booster, then went to the LFS which is just the wackiest pet store I've ever been to... It's like a little house, but it's absolutely stuffed with pets. Fish, birds, reptiles, bugs, small mammals, and supplies just everywhere. It's called "Animal House," haha, get it, because _Animal House_ was filmed in Eugene... yeah... (it's in Corvallis so I don't know what they think they're doing, appropriating a piece of UO history like that... kidding, I mean, it's a house full of animals, I think you'd call that "the Animal House" anywhere). They had hastatus cories!!!! They seemed very healthy and active, so uh, now I have five of those. They were a little pricier than I was hoping (pygmies at my usual LFS for $3, these were $5 (and supposed to be $7 I think but I lucked out... they had two different prices on two different tanks and they let me take the lower lol) but I just had to splurge. Also stopped at someone's house on the way home and got some snails–ramshorn and MTS. I'm drip acclimating both cories and snails as I write this. 

I did a water change before leaving, I think nitrate was actually like 80ppm last night and I couldn't match the color to the key, so I'm glad I did a water change. It was definitely 40, or a little under (between 20 and 40) this morning. I did another water change right after getting home and uh, nitrate is clearly 5ppm now (assuming my test is right, I should calibrate it sometime but I have no reason to believe it's off as all my readings have made sense thus far). So I overshot my goal a little bit, lol, but oh well. I also added 1/2 tsp of GH booster but my GH is still reading 3? I think it's roughly the same formula as Tom Barr's, so 1/4tsp per 10g should theoretically raise GH 1dGH (right?)... It might just be that it's not fully dissolved yet, I couldn't get it to (truthfully I didn't try that hard and I think I have some better ideas for next time), sooo I'm gonna wait a day or so and hope that it goes up. If not, I have a bag of the stuff.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Here's some pics! Sorry for the crummy quality, I'll have to get batteries for my point-and-shoot, lol. This ancient iPod isn't cutting it. 

Snails acclimating, one VERY red ramshorn in the tank, 4 of the cories chilling on the bottom of the acclimation tub, then a wide shot showing them and the one that's been trying to attack the dripping water, doing just that lol.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Cories are in the tank now and seem to be enjoying the new digs. The tank is soooo incredibly empty though... Maybe I'll get some more, or my shrimp within like a week.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

My GH is at 4 now. I'm not sure if it's because the GH booster dissolved completely or if it's because the rocks had time to leach minerals now that it's been a couple days since I did a water change (remember my GH out of the tap is just 2, but was 3 in the tank before booster). I'll keep monitoring it, and check after the next time I do a water change (will be bringing the WC water up to whatever the tank is at). KH is at 2, same as tap, so I'm not sure what's up with that or why it was higher before. Maybe from carbonate content in all the food I had been cycling the tank with, and now that's gone? Or from nutrients in the soil? I could have also been doing the test wrong. I'm not really worried about it in any case, but I'll keep an eye on that too.

My cories still seem healthy. I've now fed them twice (once yesterday, once today), a smushed up Drs. Foster and Smith cichlid pellet, and a TetraMin baby shrimp (hopefully it doesn't give them a taste for shrimp, lol, though I've never heard of that happening and did a little research before buying the food in the first place). They clearly liked the shrimp more but happily ate the pellet too. I think they've also been munching on the last remaining detritus worms. The snails seem healthy and active too, though their shells seem a little damaged/thin, presumably because of soft water in their previous owner's tank. Hopefully they'll get stronger with the boosted GH. 

Finally, I messaged my LFS and it turns out they usually stock _habrosus_ cories, but their supplier hasn't had them recently. I'm now on the call list for when they get more in, and they'll hold 6 for me. They're going to be $5 each there too, so whatever I guess, lol.

Oh, and I tested ammonia and nitrite yesterday an hour or so after feeding, and both remained at 0. I'll test again in a little bit, and I think test nitrate too. Will update then.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I've noticed that one cory is smaller than the other 4, and tends to sit apart from the group (see attached image of the larger 4 all sitting together. I think the fifth was sitting behind the front right rock--and yes I know my anubias isn't looking good and that I have a diatom problem on my bacopa, lol. The anubias recently started putting out a new, healthy-looking leaf so I'll be cutting the others down soon). I'm a little concerned as it also seems to prefer resting while the others root around for food (just now it was sitting on a bacopa leaf while the others hunted for TetraMin Tropical Granules). I don't know if it's being bullied away from food or what. Also not sure if it's a gender difference. It seems healthy aside from its smaller size, and still moves around, just not as much as the others, but I'm not sure if I've seen it eating... I want to say that I think I did? I think I saw all of them eating at some point, but I'm not positive. I don't really know what to do about this, or if there's anything to do. Maybe the dynamic will change when I get more cories. 

Ammonia and nitrite are still 0, nitrate is at 10ppm or maybe between 5 and 10.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

The cory that wasn't eating bit the dust . But at least it's not sitting around starving anymore, I guess. IDK when it died, its body was surprisingly intact (I found it maybe 20 minutes ago) for being in a tank full of carnivorous scavengers. I fed the tank before realizing it was dead, and all the other cories hopped to it like usual and are still rooting around like little pigs. Ammonia and nitrite are 0. 

Ironically, the General Cure I ordered is supposed to come in today. I know... my fault for not having any on hand when I started the tank. Won't make that mistake again, but I'm not sure it would have helped the cory anyways. I guess I'll never know. I think I'll treat the tank anyways just in case there's a pathogen in the water and/or any of the other cories have it (they sure don't seem to, but). 

There is, however, a bit of a silver lining: I learned on Friday that the LFS had misquoted me on the price of their _habrosus_ (which they don't have in now, but usually stock I guess and have me on the call list for). They're $3, not $5. Which is AWESOME–and also solves a moral dilemma, because The Wet Spot in Portland sells wild _habrosus_ for $3 each, and I was only willing to get the $5 ones if they were tank-raised, but then they didn't know if they were or not. But if these are $3 too, and 20 minutes away, not 2 hours away, I'll take them! So I should be able to get my 4 remaining cories a bunch of friends.

I've also been bidding on shrimp, on Ebay and Aquabid... I think I'm stuck on Blue (Velvet) Dreams now, which sucks for my wallet. I'm not sure Orange Sakura or yellow shrimp (the others I was looking at) would look as good on my light substrate. It's really a very bright-looking tank. I'm trying to find a price $5/shrimp or less (ideally less) before I settle for getting some at my LFS for $6/shrimp + 10% off (for this month, because I'm a student, so really like $5.40/shrimp).


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I was irresponsible today... 

My partner came home in a bad mood and wanted to treat it with some retail therapy... I told them I'd go with them to get the new 3DS XL galaxy style if they would take me to a LFS or pet store after... Just to look, of course. Well, they took me to Petco because the LFS would be shut by the time we'd get there. That Petco had maybe the most varied stock I'd ever seen. Rainbows, uncommon tetras, killies even... Aaaaand Amano shrimp. I didn't see their tag at first so I thought they had mislabeled them as ghost shrimp and were selling them for 49 cents, so I went to get a couple because like, that couldn't last long, right? Well, after I had already alerted an employee and was about to get a couple, I realized that they actually did have their own tag that I had missed, and cost more. But, the price was still only $2.49 each. So I got a couple... From a tank with a very dead ghost catfish in it. The shrimp seem healthy nonetheless, though I think one had some ghost cat in its guts, lol. I figure I have antibiotic/dewormer in my tank now anyways so if they're at all unhealthy or have something to spread, that should get it... Hopefully it won't hurt them, lol. But if it does, I have a 30 day guarantee so long as my parameters are good, which they are and will be. Still probably not the wisest decision, but whatever lol. They're drip acclimating now.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

These shrimps are out of control! They acclimated fine as far as I can tell and have been nibbling on diatoms, but one of them seems hellbent on trying to climb out of the tank    . I don't know if it's because it doesn't like the medicine in the water/high TDS (I did acclimate them to it, though!) or if it's just messing with me for kicks (I've always heard of amanos doing this, just climbing out to go exploring or whatever, nothing to do with parameters, but I never had problems with the 2 or 3 amanos I had before)... It's stressing me out, though! I did have the water like an inch (or a little more) below the trim and I lowered it about another inch after seeing the shrimp climbing the corner, and I don't think it can actually get out that way. I think I'm gonna cover the filter and heater holes with plastic wrap just for peace of mind, though  

I think it's also just one persistent shrimp doing this... The other seems a lot calmer. This might actually be the amano that jumped out of the net onto the floor when the employee was trying to catch me a couple, lol...   !!!


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

geisterwald said:


> I was irresponsible today...
> 
> My partner came home in a bad mood and wanted to treat it with some retail therapy... I told them I'd go with them to get the new 3DS XL galaxy style if they would take me to a LFS or pet store after... Just to look, of course. Well, they took me to Petco because the LFS would be shut by the time we'd get there. That Petco had maybe the most varied stock I'd ever seen. Rainbows, uncommon tetras, killies even... Aaaaand Amano shrimp. I didn't see their tag at first so I thought they had mislabeled them as ghost shrimp and were selling them for 49 cents, so I went to get a couple because like, that couldn't last long, right? Well, after I had already alerted an employee and was about to get a couple, I realized that they actually did have their own tag that I had missed, and cost more. But, the price was still only $2.49 each. So I got a couple... From a tank with a very dead ghost catfish in it. The shrimp seem healthy nonetheless, though I think one had some ghost cat in its guts, lol. I figure I have antibiotic/dewormer in my tank now anyways so if they're at all unhealthy or have something to spread, that should get it... Hopefully it won't hurt them, lol. But if it does, I have a 30 day guarantee so long as my parameters are good, which they are and will be. Still probably not the wisest decision, but whatever lol. They're drip acclimating now.


Just want to add to the amano shrimp a petco. 
Its funny they sell amamo shrimp small size for 3.49 lg for 3.99 or Japanese algae eating shrimp for 2.49. All are the same. Lfs sell them for 6. Its a great place for those shrimp.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

latchdan said:


> Just want to add to the amano shrimp a petco.
> Its funny they sell amamo shrimp small size for 3.49 lg for 3.99 or Japanese algae eating shrimp for 2.49. All are the same. Lfs sell them for 6. Its a great place for those shrimp.


Haha, that's funny... They only had the "Japanese algae eating shrimp" at this location. The employee was like "Oh, you want some of those Japanese shrimp, huh?" which was kind of amazing. Took me back to Indiana, lol. But yeah it's a good deal, I just felt weird about buying anything from a tank full of dead fish lmao, but they seem fine. 

They're $5 at my LFS. Just $3 at a popular LFS in Portland, but if I don't have to drive 2 hours to get a good price, that's great lol.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

geisterwald said:


> Haha, that's funny... They only had the "Japanese algae eating shrimp" at this location. The employee was like "Oh, you want some of those Japanese shrimp, huh?" which was kind of amazing. Took me back to Indiana, lol. But yeah it's a good deal, I just felt weird about buying anything from a tank full of dead fish lmao, but they seem fine.
> 
> They're $5 at my LFS. Just $3 at a popular LFS in Portland, but if I don't have to drive 2 hours to get a good price, that's great lol.


I tried to tell the employee that they were the same shrimp but they kept arguing with me. Don't even think they knew much.

I just said "what ever I'll take the cheaper one then"


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I won some Blue (Velvet) Dream shrimp on fleabay! $29 for 6 so $4.83 each... A whole 17 cents less per shrimp than I could get anywhere else, lol. But it was exciting. The seller has really, really good ratings so hopefully they arrive safe and sound.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

My shrimp arrived! They're all alive, and gorgeous...but there's only 5 and I was definitely supposed to get 6. I know some listings are for "5 +1" in case of DOAs but this one actually said 6 and there are definitely only 5 shrimp there lol. It also came with a good chunk of some sort of moss... The listing said either flame or christmas moss but it doesn't really look like either to me. Closer to christmas than flame I think but still not sure it's either. Might be java?

Unfortunately I neglected to take a picture of the unopened bag, because I couldn't be sure there weren't some hiding in moss without taking it out. I sent the seller pictures of 1. the box 2. the (5) shrimp in a holding container 3. the empty bag (both the top and bottom) and 4. the moss in my hand so hopefully they're reasonable. If not I guess I'll deal, lol.

My LFS also messaged me and said they should be getting in some more _C. habrosus_ this week! 

Here's the (5!!!) shrimp and the moss.

Bump: Oh, and one of my cories bombed a picture of the bag, lol.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Update: The seller is giving me a $5 refund for the missing shrimp


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

*Big picture update!*

So it's been a minute since I posted any pictures of the tank.

Eye level:









Front view (NOT actually this slanted though it's not completely level... my hands are not steady lol):









The wisteria in the back is getting huge!









The ones on the side, not so much, but they're growing too. Not entirely sure why their growth is so different? I'm pretty sure the sides of the tank get a lot less light than the middle. Probably the side plants being so short when I planted them doesn't help either, the PAR is probably crappy. And here's three of the cories and a ramshorn 









More evidence of the crappy PAR... This anubias is really doing great! But the one on the shorter rock isn't so much (it has new growth as well but the leaves aren't getting big very quickly)... If I get tired of it I'll get a new bulb, lol. Who knows how old this one is... 









Here's one of the blue dreams... Kinda dinky!









And finally, a very greedy amano shrimp... Not the only time it's done this, either! :icon_lol:









Honestly, I'm loving this scape more and more every day. I'm really happy with the layout of the rocks. It's not much but it's homey. Excited to keep on working with it.

Bump: Oh and I forgot to update on the floaters! They've gotten -very- numerous and keep on growing. I also made a airline anti-corral to keep them from getting knocked under the outflow. I'd seen people make regular ol corrals to keep them in a set area, but I want them everywhere, just.. not there, so. It's worked pretty well so far.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

A second cory bit the dust . I posted about it here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...ter-ever-killed-anyones-fish.html#post9582761

Like I said there, I'm wondering if it ate too much GH booster or maybe got hit in the face by a substrate bubble. Past that, I'm at a complete loss for what might have happened besides simply dying of old age. RIP...


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

(9/29/16, guess this never posted lol) On a happier note, one of my amanos successfully molted! I was concerned about 5dGH being on the low side for successful molting (but didn't want to raise, but I guess it's OK at least for the amanos. It left a very freaky half of a molt stuck to the filter (not sure where the other half is but neither of the amanos look partially clothed, lol, so) and I was concerned that I lost ANOTHER critter when I first saw it, but no, they're both fine. 

Today: I got 6 more cories! I waited so long for them to come in. They all seem really healthy. Hopefully their bioload isn't too much for my tank to handle.


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## SueD (Nov 20, 2010)

Hard to really tell from the pic but your cories appear to be habrosus, rather than hastatus. Here are two pictures of mine - one is hastatus with the M. Kubotai. The other is of my habrosus (on the left) when I still had my pygmaeus (on the right). Female habrosus will be larger than the males, sometimes quite a bit.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

@SueD They definitely are habrosus, did I accidentally say hastatus somewhere?

A third cory died on Thursday (or Wednesday night idk). I don't know if it was one of the original 5 or one of the new ones, and don't have much of an idea why this time. I did find it by the same place as the second one, though, (by the rock in the back right) so I wonder if there were some particularly nasty gas bubbles under that rock. I hadn't been pressing it down like I press down the other rocks cos there's no easy way to press on it with the syringe (what I use, cap on, to poke the substrate). I thoroughly poked the substrate and then pressed it down with my hand and got a good number of bubbles. They don't seem to be anything other than CO2 but I'm not positive.

Other than that, the tank has been doing well. Plants are growing, fish and shrimp are happy and eating.









The blue velvet dreams (I see why they were called that now, they're kind-of between grades but I don't mind terribly) are growing. I don't think they're quite old enough to breed yet but I keep looking for saddles. It seems like I have a pretty good mix of males and females.

Most of the plants have been growing slowly, as expected in a low-low tech tank. Two exceptions:

The big wisteria continues to explode. It's sent out two stems that are staying low to the substrate, and are doingly surprisingly well for what, and where they are (along the back, under the heater and prefilter, so I can't imagine they're getting much light). I should trim and replant some of the wisteria soon...
The dwarf water lettuce just keeps multiplying. This is particularly exciting because ever since I started having success with it, I planned to do a RAOK, as the person I got the plants from gave me the dwarf water lettuce as a freebie. I think I have enough for a couple small bags (more if I wanted to give a LOT away)! It's also healthy, save for a few of the larger leaves that are dying off. Not sure if this is just normal or if there's just not enough nutrients and/or light to support larger leaves.)










Levels:

KH is at 4dKH now. Not sure if the last test that showed 2dKH was just a fluke. I shook the bottle this time, not sure if I did before. 
GH is between 5 and 6dGH, I think closer to 5.
Nitrate seems to be hanging around between 10 and 20ppm.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Well, today I caught a fourth cory in its death throes! Everyone else seems fine, but this one is right about to bite the dust (if it hasn't yet, right now I'm letting it do its thing). I wanna say a gas bubble got it but I don't really know, as my dirt doesn't seem anaerobic, or not dangerously so: the bubbles that come up don't last long or smell bad. I suppose if the substrate is shooting up CO2, though, that could gas fish too. 

I found this one after a good couple of minutes of searching, behind one of the foreground rocks. I saw its (seemingly dead) body wiggling, so I figured a shrimp had it or something, but no, it's just going out with a fight I guess. I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to save it at this point, so I might look for a good euthanization method (I don't have clove oil). I tried to get it out of the tank and put it in a cup for observation/maybe some last-ditch rehabilitation efforts but it fought me too much, so I'm just letting it die in the tank. RIP...


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

*The return...*

HEY it's been a hot minute since I touched this thread. Things were looking pretty dismal there for a while... I've been really sick, my chronic illness has been flaring up with new and even more incapacitating symptoms, and with that on top of dragging myself to school and work (when I definitely shouldn't have been going) and not having a Python, I became unable to maintain the tank. I had started dosing PPS-pro, but I wasn't sticking to my schedule, I wasn't turning my lights off with any sort of consistency, DWL was overgrown and leaving a lot of detritus and algae (I think rhizoclonium, luckily not much else) built up. Not sure if it was because of lack of ferts, poor lighting or what but my bacopa and little bit of moss I had also died off. Crypt, anubias and DWL kept doing quite well, all things considered--I'm thankful for that. I also had to poke the substrate to release gas bubbles and ended up releasing a lot of dirt in the process :icon_roll:. So the sand was covered in dirt, basically. Params were fine (good even), it was just a mess.

All those issues on top of the gas bubbles from my still very immature tank resulted in all my neos and all but two of my cories slowly dying off--some of the cories, I think, were just bad quality stock to begin with. I think they're likely wild-caught, as habrosus often are. My amano shrimp also ultimately developed bacterial infections (or just muscular necrosis anyway, not 100% sure of cause) and croaked. It's been I think at least a month since the last amano died and I've done a ton of trimming and sucked a lot of dirt (lol). The gas bubbles have died down to the point that I don't get huge ones every time I poke the substrate (sometimes I don't get any, depending where I poke), and they aren't so huge that they blow up a bunch of dirt when they come out. I really feel like the tank has matured a lot.

I also acquired a Python which makes doing water changes a lot easier, as I don't need to incur the strain of lifting buckets, and I've done a couple big PWCs in the past month. I reduced the hours of my light, got on top of my fertilizing and even started doing the full dose--I didn't think my tank could handle it due to its being low light and sparsely planted, but my plants are really perking up and I'm not seeing hardly any deficiencies in the DWL anymore. Even the bacopa is making tiny advances.

I didn't take any pictures when my tank was in its roughest stages, but I just took some now (sorry for the horrid image quality lol, and idk why the bacopa is showing sideways)... 


























You can see the anubias and crypt are doing really well (and the snails! They produced a blue one and even some leopard ramshorns, I'm pumped!), but the bacopa... not so much. I think the crypt is the only plant really benefitting from the dirt, lol. Is it worth it? not sure. Dirt tanks can work out really well but I might be one of the failure cases, lol. 

After some deliberation, I decided to get some more shrimp. Given that my tap water is naturally very soft, I've decided to go with CBS--I got ten CBS + mischlings for just $1 each from someone on the forum. I'm hoping they'll arrive safely and in good condition, and that going with more (I got 5 last time) will increase my chances of success.

I think perhaps the key error I made with my blue dream velvets, aside from introducing them to an immature dirted tank, was that they weren't suited to my tank's parameters. I don't think they ever molted in my tank, though I could be wrong (as I suppose the molts would be quite small). Firstly, I wasn't entirely sure of the seller's params... I messaged them and asked, but they never replied and I had to do my best guess based off of their location's water reports. Secondly, I didn't acclimate them for quite as long as I should have, I don't think.

This time around, I have the seller's params: pH 6.7, 167 ppm TDS, 6dGH and 3dKH. My tank: pH 7.4, 239 ppm TDS (granted this is near the start of a week after a PWC), 5-6 dGH and 4dKH. I'm just going to acclimate as long as it takes to match the params and then some, I'm thinking at least 2 hours/doubling the volume at least 3x. I'm planning on adding a drop of prime and running an airstone while I acclimate. I'm really, really hoping I can make this work out! 

Future plans... If I have the funds, eventually I want to get a better light and more plants. Either some micro sword or more crypts would be really nice to have, I think. Oh, and more cories of course. The two that are left are inseparable, they school better than they ever did in groups... It's cute but also sad :'(.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

It's done, I'm done... Shrimp started dying I think the day after I got them; two croaked pretty early on, but I wasn't positive just yet (or I was in denial) about the cause--although acclimation got them pretty damn close, so blaming it on that was wishful thinking. Saw some bubbles coming up from the substrate this evening and shortly after, one of my shrimp falling over. Poked some holes in the substrate and again, shortly after--another shrimp falling over. A little bit after that and another one fell. So that's pretty well the cause... All parameters are spot on, everything's fine except for that. I pulled all the shrimp out into a tub of tank water with an airstone running. The first two that fell over croaked, but one is hanging on the best it can. I was gonna acclimate them to a ~3/4 gallon holding tank that I got to *almost* the tank's parameters, but I'm not, at least not for now, they just need some time to chill out, I think.

Tomorrow, I'm buying another tank and am gonna begin the process of tearing the old tank down and setting it back up in a tank with just PFS for substrate. I realize I could just take everything out of the current tank and replace the substrate that way, but I'm incredibly exhausted by my chronic illness and everything else going on in my life, and I just don't think that I have the energy to do it all at once like that. I figure getting a new tank will allow me to make a new home for my critters as quickly as possible, and also allow me to draw out the process of tearing down the old setup. I guess I'll be starting a new journal.

Lesson learned? Forget about dirt. At least, forget about potting soil. Sometimes people have great success, but it seems to be a crapshoot. Trying it with shrimp was a major mistake. It didn't even help my plants that much; only the crypt seemed to really like it, but I'm confident that it would--and will--do just as well with dosed ferts only. I wish I hadn't drawn it out as long as I did before coming to this conclusion.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

*Mk. II*

Eh, nevermind about the new thread, it seems silly to make a new one when it's the same concept with the same critters, executed differently.

Unfortunately I ended up losing all three shrimp that fell over on Wednesday night; the remaining five seem to be doing well, though. I spent all day yesterday buying, preparing and setting up a new 10 gal, and tearing down the old one; now my chronic pain is getting back at me for it, lol. 

I stayed up late last night drip acclimating the cories--the TDS in the new tank is way lower without all the dirt crap floating around (like 150 vs 260ppm), and the KH is lower (about at tap levels), and I think I found out why... There's a bunch of random-a** rocks in the dirt! Guess I shoulda sifted it after all lol (not that 4dKH was bad at all, now it's 2). It's also super weird not having all those tannins... Not sure how I feel about it, honestly, haha.

I took the choice pieces of what was left of the bacopa and wisteria and re-planted them, I'll see what happens there. I'll hopefully upgrade my light if they don't grow (only reason I wouldn't is because of lack of $). Substrate is only ~2in max (in the back) this time around (and no dirt, obviously), so hopefully I won't be seeing any freaky gas bubbles.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

As someone who lived in Eugene in the 1980's and 90's, I've got some plant tank pictures from our apartment on E15th, back in the good ol' days when Little Ocean was in where Little Cesear's is now, on Villard street in East Eugene. 

Eugene has the most perfect aquarium water you could ask for. It's out of the tap perfect for DH and GH, you really have to try hard to kill plants with it, the local Angelfish breeder did water changes with just a small amount of anti-chlor, this was back before they went to Chloramines, but still, even with the need for Prime, Eugene's water was ( probably still is..) perfectly good for low tech plant growing.

BTW Bobcat Pets in Santa Clara is an awesome little LFS, the owner is conscientious and keeps healthy stock.

I assume you're buying from Aqua Serene, they've improved but their prices are a bit off the charts.

You should see if the local aquarium club is still extant, there used to be some decent and smart members in that group.

Now for some planted tank images from Eugene in 1993..


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

@GrampsGrunge yeah, Eugene water really is perfect! I actually have to remineralize it to get it to a decent GH for my snails lol, but it's pretty perfect for caridina shrimp, which is impressive. I got my rocks and some of my cories from Aqua Serene, but didn't and wouldn't ever buy shrimp there... They actually have planaria in their tanks ! They are spensy too and sometimes kind-of stuck up, lol :/. I'll check out Bobcat Pets, thanks for the tip!

I haven't found anything about an aquarium club; I'm in a couple local fish groups on Facebook, but they're nothing exceptional.

Those are great pics, thanks for sharing!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Shrimp pics, I realized I hadn't shared any lol.

I got a few when I got the shrimp... 









(I think both of these might have croaked ;o; I know the big reddish female did  )



















...but only one since actually putting them in the tank, lol... And it's actually in the new tank? I guess it wasn't very long between my getting them and realizing they were all going to die in the first tank, haha... :/










In other tank related news, I've mostly cleaned out the old tank--the substrate was naaasty, very stinky and I don't think there were *any* snails hiding in there, not any live ones anyway... It might have actually killed off most of my MTS??? Jeez. 

I'm not entirely sure what I'm gonna do with the tank itself. Part of me is like, "Quarantine tank!", but I don't have a second heater (which I would probably want if I ever brought any new fish in, and we keep the house pretty cool too, so IDK about keeping shrimp without a heater either, especially in winter, even though that's usuall). Another part of me is like, "New shrimp tank!" or, provided these guys breed (PLEASE... they're doing well I'm pretty sure, they're growing, at least one but I think two molted...), "cull tank!" (or why not both, I could keep neos with the culls). And then a third part of me is like, "You already have so much on your plate, you're still chronically ill to the point of being unable to work, you don't need a second tank at all!" and... maybe that third part has a point, lol. But we'll see...

EDIT: Forgot I had a (unobstructed) FTS to share too! Lol, sorry it's still a little blurry but otherwise...


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Very nice looking shrimp. Higher quality shrimp can be very demanding to keep as far as I understand. I'm sticking to the easy stuff for now but I can appreciate your challenges and going to be paying attention here since I plan to keep some of the higher grade CBS or CRS in the future also.

Dam shrimp virus snuck up on me

Dan


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Dman911 said:


> Very nice looking shrimp. Higher quality shrimp can be very demanding to keep as far as I understand. I'm sticking to the easy stuff for now but I can appreciate your challenges and going to be paying attention here since I plan to keep some of the higher grade CBS or CRS in the future also.
> 
> Dam shrimp virus snuck up on me
> 
> Dan


YEAH honestly I don't really know what I'm doing lol except on like... a very basic shrimp 101 level but they seem to like this water/the tank? And they're eating and molting and stuff so it must be at least mostly OK for them? Except for the part where a bunch died off after the gas bubbles, and now two more died a couple days ago :icon_eek:. But like.. My parameters are good and close to what I got them from so I'm hoping that was just residual stress from the old tank? Idk. I really like them though, I've always wanted CBS and it's really cool to have some (did I say that earlier? lol). 

I also got 6 more cories; it's been a long time since any cories died and the two I had seemed kind-of antsy, swimming around with or maybe chasing one of my shrimp? I was worried it was stressing the shrimp so I thought I'd finally go get them some buddies, and my LFS had some in stock, so...










They gave me one for free! There wasn't a promotion or anything, I guess the guy just wanted to be nice. I'm very glad...


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

One thing I have learned over the years is patience will get you there its just a matter of time, trial and error and a will to succeed. Knowledge and judgment are something that can only be learned and if you keep at it you will be successful. That's what make forums like these so great. Information sharing speeds up that process 110%. We can't know everything but collectively we can sure as hell try lol.

Dan


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I did a ~25% water change and stopped dosing my macros (and mostly my micros... I haven't been super consistent, oops) after those two shrimp died, since some folks on here suggested the ~20ppm nitrate I had was maybe a little high for CBS. That and the cories were the only things I could see possibly being wrong, aside from residual stress from the toxic tank (which of course I can't do anything about). I've been sick and totally forgot to test right after the water change lol, but about a week later nitrates are at like 5 ppm. So if the nitrates were really at 20ppm, 25% water change should've knocked it down to 15? And then the plants ate up 10 of those? But nitrates might have been more between 10 and 20, I'm really bad at telling the difference. Multiple other eyes saw 20, though, so.

That said, I think maybe I'll go back to dosing every other day. 10 ppm seems like a good place to be, and I thiink that should get me there based on calculations I did last week (rotalabutterfly is down now so I'm not entirely sure how to double check lmao). My plants weren't super happy with no dosing, and they were really happy with every day dosing, but if that's going to bump nitrates up too high for my shrimp, it's obviously not worth it. I also don't know if there's a different dynamic in this tank than in the old one, like if my plants are behaving differently in the different conditions? Time will tell, I guess.

In other news, one of my shrimp molted again! I'm pretty sure I have two males and one female left, so hopefully they can still breed. If they haven't in about a month, I think I'll buy more lol. The cories are doing well, except for one that died (and I know why, too... I accidentally smushed it a little against the side of the acclimation container when I was netting it out :'C). I also contacted a couple LFSes about potentially selling them some of my DWL, as selling online just isn't moving the quantities I need! I really feel so bad throwing it out without trying all my options first, haha.


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## Sharper (Nov 1, 2009)

25% WC would knock nitrates to 15ppm considering there weren't any nitrates in the new water you added. I have about 10ppm nitrates in my tap water, so I have to take that into consideration. Can you dose other nutrients besides nitrates?

I've never had shrimp before, but I'd love to someday! They are so cute! Hope they breed for you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Sharper said:


> 25% WC would knock nitrates to 15ppm considering there weren't any nitrates in the new water you added. I have about 10ppm nitrates in my tap water, so I have to take that into consideration. Can you dose other nutrients besides nitrates?
> 
> I've never had shrimp before, but I'd love to someday! They are so cute! Hope they breed for you!
> 
> ...


Yeah, there's no nitrates in my tap, so. Testing today showed 5ppm so evidently my plants are sucking up about 10ppm, which is cool. I do dose micros and my macros are a mix, I guess I could take the nitrate out if I really wanted but my tank doesn't generate enough nitrate for that to feel like a good idea, I mean I've only got 7 small fish, three shrimp and a bunch of snails lol.

Shrimp are great, if tricky! I realllly love the look of the CBS, though any/all shrimp rock. Thanks for the well wishes! I'd love to be a successful shrimp parent, haha.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Popped into Petsmart today on impulse and then, on impulse, got one of those Top Fin packs of Crypt. wendtii "green." It split up into six plants, and then into a seventh once I actually got it into the tank. A couple of those were big ol clumps that I just couldn't split up any more >:~(... Hopefully they do fine anyways.


























I planted them all kinda randomly because, well, I had so many with only so much space and also didn't want to overthink it, lol. So, if these all root and grow as nicely as my Crypt. undulata has, I should have a nice, lush, jungley tank.

Before planting:

















After:

































And a shot of my DWL from below that I'd been wanting to get:


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Had more shrimp deaths, and then a bunch of cory deaths (it happened REALLY fast)... And the cories keep croaking. Down to 1 shrimp and four cories :icon_eek:. 

Thinking with the shrimp, I waaayyy underestimated the importance of maintaining the pH they're accustomed to, and because they were raised in a lower pH, they just aren't doing well in this tank. That, or a bacterial infection, though I haven't seen any obvious signs (no "rust" or anything). I think the last one that died may have died during molting, so that would point to the pH maybe. Thinking an internal bacterial infection with the cories... They get real lethargic and spacey-looking for a short bit, and then slowly die. There aren't any other symptoms or outward signs of them being sick. 

I have considered the possibility that there's something toxic in the tank, but if there was, I'd think the snails would be affected too. That said, if the kanaplex I ordered doesn't solve the problem (should treat fungus and bacteria), my next suspects are the grey rocks at the front of the tank--they look a little rusty, and while I know that's not usually actually a sign of toxicity, I'm just not entirely convinced.

I really want to be able to keep stuff alive in my tank. I have no idea what I am or could possibly be doing wrong and I feel like a bad fish parent! Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this soon.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

It's been almost two weeks since I finished dosing Kanaplex... I lost one more cory, literally two days after my final dose (i.e. water change day). It beached itself on a DWL leaf?!?!? Like I flipped open the tank lid and there it was, lmao. I don't know if it wasn't tolerating the med, if it was just a freak accident or what. I think notably, its color was greyer and more washed out than any of the others and it had been acting a little bit listless. But the other three have colored up in a way that I didn't realize habrosus cories did--I think now I know their proper color, a little peachier, browner and clearer; not so grey and white. They're acting normal and have been eating enthusiastically. I feel bad I only have three again, maybe at some point I'll try again--quarantining and treating the cories before adding them to the main tank.

I think in the next week or so I'll take the plunge and order some CRS from @natemcnutty (Hi, it's Finch from Facebook lol, I've had a feeling you know who I am but not positive...?). His parameters match mine almost exactly (we're in the same state, after all) and he successfully breeds his CRS on inert substrate. I've ordered some of the primary food he feeds (which I think will also help my snails, which are suffering without enough calcium ) and dropped my GH a couple degrees to match his as well. I really, really, really hope this works out. And if it doesn't, well, then I'll start looking around for something toxic in my tank, but I'm pretty well doubting that at this point. I think it was just parameter mismatch with the shrimp, maybe plus the bad bacteria that was affecting the cories (and then factoring in the old/toxic tank crap and any residual effects from that). I also ordered a little fan to perch on the edge of my tank and keep temps down (it's wireless so not too much of a shock risk I hope, but I'll also do everything in my power to safeguard it from falling in of course lol... I don't think it can fall through the gap I'll leave for it very well anyway, but).

The really great news is that although I haven't been able to work due to my chronic illness, my mother came through and is supporting me while I work to get on disability, so now I can afford more of the things I need for my tank. A new lightbulb is up next (and if that doesn't work out, LEDs in the distant future).


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I did get 13 CRS from @natemcnutty, really and truly acclimated to Portland tap water (almost like mine here in Eugene) a little more than three weeks after finishing the Kanaplex. It's been almost a week since I got them and I've had no deaths!! and a few molts; they're grazing, swimming and eating happily. On top of that, my snails (that I actually care about lol) are looking better since I started feeding more calcium-rich food. Finally, my last three cories are also looking and doing great, and Nathan sent a bunch of plants with the shrimp so my tank is looking better too...hopefully I can sustain them with my crappy light . Don't have much else to say, so here are some pics (taken with my partner's phone this time so they don't look like total crap lol)!!!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Everyone's still alive and doing great! I did my first water change (~1 gallon) near the middle of last week and it went well. Today I was able to count everybody and saw another molt in the tank. All the livestock (CRS, cories, snails) are eating and very active. I also have a TON of snail babies :hihi: :icon_eek:. The cories love the veggie sticks with calcium too which is kind-of hilarious and kind of annoying because they chase the shrimp off... Breaking one in half and putting the pieces in different areas seems to help though. I've also fed spinach with plenty of success and kale with some (the snails seem to like it more but I have a feeling the shrimp will come around). The shrimp also seem to like all the cories' foods but they have more protein so I'm not feeding those foods as much.

Additionally, I noticed a couple of the CRS are pretty large compared to the others and are kind-of reclusive, hanging around the filter outflow, either on the intake pipe above the prefilter or upside-down on DWL over there. They appear to both be male, I think. Maybe I can get a pic sometime... I don't know much about shrimp behavior but it seems almost hierarchical.

Edit: Oh, and last week I checked out a LFS in Springfield (the next town over) that was pretty alright, they had some really nice looking amano shrimp and I think I'll come back and grab some in the next few days... My algae isn't too bad but it could be better :hihi:! Plus I just enjoy their antics.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Had my first shrimp death, everyone else is accounted for and seems OK but I'm concerned... it never seems to be just the one. Wondering if it might be an effect of dropping the GH a couple points with the last water change (that was on Wednesday) :/ 

TDS 158 (was around 170 pre-water change)
KH 2.5ish
GH 5
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate... sitting between 10 and 20 I think which is a little concerning. I'm gonna do another water change, 15-20%.

Also just realized the weather for today is "Smoke" (from wildfires), and last night I had my window open (since we don't have AC). Kind of wondering if that could've done it. I mean the tank isn't very open (just the filter and a small patch in the back) but still probably enough for particulates to make their way in... @Zoidburg, I know you recently lost some of your shrimp to air contamination; do you have any thoughts on that?

In other, happier, news, I did get a couple amanos last week and they're doing well. I also got a new light, just another T8 but a new one, the ZooMed "Ultra Sun." I cut my feeding and ferts down to twice a week (also cut the amount that I'm feeding a little bit, from a whole Ken's stick to like half a stick) and hoping that'll stave off the nitrates creeping up...


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Oh, that's such a bummer! I had no idea you had a journal going here either. 

For the death, was it one of the larger ones? I tried to catch a couple older, one male and one female to see if we could get babies sooner. Adults usually don't fare as well, but that's why I included them plus an extra in addition to all the juvies.

Also, what did it look like? Was it milky white or yellow? Did the carapace look ok? Any pictures?

As for GH, I don't think it being lowered would cause death that quickly, but if keeping in alkaline water, I would recommend 5-6 dGH. 

Nitrates are a bit high, so a small water change is a good idea. Although I've kept them in 20ppm in the past, I do think they are more prone to diseases. I keep my tanks under 10 ppm now (as best as I can), and I feel like I've had more babies though that could be a seasonal thing too.

Only other thing I can think of is keeping the temps in the lower 70's to lower chances of infection. Increase oxygenation if possible, and add catappa leaves or similar if you have it.

Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions!

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I feel that a sudden change in water parameters is more likely to cause deaths than the current air quality, but of course, wouldn't rule that out, either.


Actually drove through Eugene last weekend. Well, went through Oregon, driving up 97 to 26, then back down 5. The amount of smoke was unbelievable! And, if I recall right, 138 was closed off on either side due to the fires.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

natemcnutty said:


> Oh, that's such a bummer! I had no idea you had a journal going here either.
> 
> For the death, was it one of the larger ones? I tried to catch a couple older, one male and one female to see if we could get babies sooner. Adults usually don't fare as well, but that's why I included them plus an extra in addition to all the juvies.
> 
> ...


(said all this on FB but I'll post it here too to have a record lol...) 

I think it was pretty average, it wasn't one of the couple smallest ones and I don't think it was one of the largest, but it might have been. It didn't look milky white or yellow that I could tell, just reddish and very dead. I didn't think to take a pic unfortunately; my best pics come from my partner's phone and they weren't home at the time, so.

I did a ~1.5 gallon water change with water remineralized to 5 dGH (and the tap here has no nitrate). I'll retest nitrate tomorrow. Temps have been 70-73 today; I haven't noticed them getting above 74 lately but I'll keep an eye on that too. I haven't noticed any signs of infection but JIC, I'll look into getting some catappa leaves and maybe grab some organic cinnamon sticks in the meantime.

@Zoidburg, thanks for the input. Trying to decide whether I should keep my window shut to avoid the majority of smoke or open it so it doesn't get too hot. Do you think if it had been the smoke, more shrimp would have been affected? It seems weird that it would just harm the one, but I've never had any experience with this, so. Unrelated--did you come up for the eclipse? 

Thanks to both of you for the help!


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

No, was back home in Nevada, and at work, during the eclipse.


And I feel that if it was the smoke, you'd notice something "off" with the entire colony. If they all appear "normal", then not likely.


When my shrimp were going through the air contaminants - twice - they were in the corners of the tanks or up high. No where in the middle of the tanks. A few would appear dead, being on their sides, unresponsive to what was going on (you could poke and prod them and they wouldn't move), but they were still alive.

It's possible that they would react differently to smoke, but I feel that you'd still see something.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> No, was back home in Nevada, and at work, during the eclipse.
> 
> 
> And I feel that if it was the smoke, you'd notice something "off" with the entire colony. If they all appear "normal", then not likely.
> ...


That's what I was thinking after some more consideration. And it's good to know the signs, thanks. It does seem like they're all doing pretty alright now; I was able to get some organic ceylon cinnamon sticks at the nearby hippie grocery store (one benefit of living in Eugene lol) and they're all over it and seem pretty much fine otherwise as well. Hopefully it was just something up with the one.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Tiny update... I MIGHT have figured out the problem, which MIGHT be the heat? I think I may have (and it may be too soon to tell, knock on wood) saved a shrimp that seemed about ready to croak by turning up the fan, dropping the water level for more aeration and adding another ice cube. Time will tell.

Additionally, I think one of the amanos either jumped ship (and I can't find it--cat ate it?), died and got eaten REALLY quickly (or just while I was sleeping), or is impossibly good at hiding? I only ever see one and I think it's the same one every time.


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## aerosquid (Sep 7, 2017)

When i want to cycle a new tank fast i usually pull a filter out of my aquaclear 70 and just squeeze it into the new tank lol. I'm running a big cannister on that tank too (55 mbuna) and it has a lot of fish. All i run in my 70 aquaclear is sponges since the cannister does the heavy lifting.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

aerosquid said:


> When i want to cycle a new tank fast i usually pull a filter out of my aquaclear 70 and just squeeze it into the new tank lol. I'm running a big cannister on that tank too (55 mbuna) and it has a lot of fish. All i run in my 70 aquaclear is sponges since the cannister does the heavy lifting.


I don't understand what this has to do with my thread.

Additionally, a long-overdue update: The last CRS croaked quite a while ago; I have one amano and two cories left. I've been making slow progress trying to get to the root of the issue. I'm still not seeing any planaria or hydra (and hydra anyway should only be able to kill baby shrimp, which I never had any of). 

I made a stock KNO3 solution and checked my nitrate test kit against it. I mixed solution twice and am about 95% certain my solutions were accurate (or at the very least, the latter one was), and both showed that my kit was indicating _higher_ levels of nitrate than were actually present. Not what I expected. But I guess that rules out the nitrate issue? My kit suggests I had 5-10 ppm max at any time, which shouldn't have been enough to kill most of my livestock. With this info, I've gone back to dosing macros twice a week. I need to remake my micro solution lol, it keeps molding -_-

So I'm still not sure what's up. As a result, I've started remineralizing distilled water for water changes (not fancy, still using nilocg GH booster and now baking soda) and am hoping that will solve any remaining problems. 

I also moved into the modern era, bought an Aqueon Versa-top and a Beamswork full spectrum LED light. Hoping my plants (beside the crypt, anubias and dwarf water lettuce) will show some more signs of life with this.

If I can get confident about the state of my tank again, I'll buy some more shrimp...


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> I don't understand what this has to do with my thread.
> 
> Additionally, a long-overdue update: The last CRS croaked quite a while ago; I have one amano and two cories left. I've been making slow progress trying to get to the root of the issue. I'm still not seeing any planaria or hydra (and hydra anyway should only be able to kill baby shrimp, which I never had any of).
> 
> ...


Ah man, that is such a bummer to hear 

I'm actually getting a bit frustrated having like 20 adult females and 4 males in my main tank and they just aren't getting berried... My work tank is down to 9 after someone kindly turned off the filter and lights for the whole Thanksgiving break when they were trying to turn off the light (they just turned off the whole strip).

If you can get the tank stabilized (and I get some more juvies ready), maybe we can meet up somewhere between Eugene and Albany. I can give you a half dozen more to see how they fare 

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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

natemcnutty said:


> Ah man, that is such a bummer to hear
> 
> I'm actually getting a bit frustrated having like 20 adult females and 4 males in my main tank and they just aren't getting berried... My work tank is down to 9 after someone kindly turned off the filter and lights for the whole Thanksgiving break when they were trying to turn off the light (they just turned off the whole strip).
> 
> ...


Oh jeez, that sucks, I'm sorry.  My cories are croaking off too and I only have one left. I'd get more but it just seems cruel at this point. Idk if they like the baking soda either, I know sometimes they can be sensitive to sodium. But these guys were never in super good health (And also idk really how old they were? It's been awhile since I started and I couldn't really keep track of whether it was the new ones that were dying or not). The one amano I have is chugging along, though :hihi:

I'm working on stabilizing my params at the moment following the transition to distilled, I think I want the GH down a little more from what it's at and I just realized that my KH test kit might be unreliable so I should probably grab another, and maybe also guesstimate from pH for now... But after that, I'd definitely be interested in trying again! I'll hit you up in a little while, thanks


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Hey @natemcnutty, I'm trying to decide what to do with my parameters; now that I'm relying solely on cheap remineralizers that aren't super clean, the TDS has gotten a bit high; it's like 230 in the tank. I can get it down to like 180 I think, I should double check the conversions but I'm pretty sure that's 5dGH and 1dKH with the NiloCG GH booster and baking soda. Do you think that would be OK with your shrimp? I know you keep (or were keeping) them in a bit lower TDS and a bit higher GH and KH especially, but I know (1) you said higher wasn't horrible for them and (2) TDS is secondary to GH/KH, also that (3) CRS generally do better in lower GH/KH water anyway, so maybe they'd acclimate back to it fine? Interested to know what you think! If you don't think so I think I'll look into getting some Salty Shrimp or something... 

For an update, the final cory croaked. Not sure if it was just old, still sick from whatever all of them seemed to have, or if the sodium from the baking soda got it. I don't know that I'm gonna add more fish to this tank, so maybe the "cories" part of this tank is over lol. The one remaining amano shrimp is doing great (still bothered that I don't know where the other one went lmao). My ramshorn snails seem a little weak, they're all really pale, so I'm not sure how to remedy that. I've been feeding more of the veggie sticks than I ordinarily would with basically no stock because I think they might need the calcium. MTS are doing better, I think they have a little more tolerance for the relatively soft water.

The plants are doing better with the new light; some of the plants I got from Nathan are perking up a little more: the windelov ferns and stargrass mostly. The süßwassertang, which I think is partly from him and partly from my original plant order, is doing pretty great too. Hoping to get this tank back on track soon!


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Hey man, sorry the mention didn't pop anything up for me. Our water dropped to 30 TDS with very little calcium (after 2 years of nearly perfect tap), so adding Nilocg's GH booster ends up adding a TON of potassium. I'm not sure what your water looks like, but the goal of that recipe was really to be used to add just a couple degrees, not 4-5. Long story short, you are probably in the same boat of having a ton of K in your tank.

K toxicity isn't too much of an issue, but it does increase TDS considerably and adds no value. I had been living with it until my recent fert order when I decided to go full RO and remineralize with my own mix using calcium sulfate, magnesium sulfate, and sodium bicarbonate. As an added bonus, I add them individually allowing me to guarantee concentration, and I've switched to 4:1 Ca:Mg with great results. That along with normal fert dosing has gotten me down to around 170 at water change time which is way cleaner than the 220 or so I was hitting before after the water source changed.

Super glad to hear some of the plants are doing well, and with better lights, I could send you some other fun plants like blyxa japonica, limnophila aromatica, etc 

I'm actually piggybacking 2 weeks of vacation on our Christmas break, so I'm out until mid-January (hence me being able to be a little more active lately). We'll have to see how things look around then.

For reference, here's my mix right now (per gallon):

1/32 tsp sodium bicarbonate (slightly heaping)
- Settles to about 2 dKH
1/8 tsp CaSO4 
1/32 tsp MgSO4
1/100 tsp K2SO4

Total TDS comes to around 140-145, and over time in the tank with ferts added, it seems to see around 170 TDS at water changes and 190 TDS by the time I'm ready to change it again.



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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

> For reference, here's my mix right now (per gallon):
> 
> 1/32 tsp sodium bicarbonate (slightly heaping)
> - Settles to about 2 dKH
> ...


What GH does that get you to?


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> What GH does that get you to?


That gets between 5.5 and 6, but it's probably almost exactly 5.5 because the color partially changes on that eleventh drop. Over time, I've had it creep up into the 6-6.5 range in the tank because I'm not changing out 50% or compensating. That's my next step is to find the best way to address that 

I just love how consistent it is knowing exactly what is going in. I measure TDS after adding each mineral, so it takes a while, but I have full control over it - no risk of pockets of more Mg or K and not enough Ca or whatever. 

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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Putting this here for my own reference:

2dKH = ~60 ppm baking soda (I'll shoot for 50)

add 95 ppm GH mix OR

1.4g CaSO4
0.4g MgSO4
0.1g K2SO4

per gallon

Thanks @natemcnutty!

Update: Noticed a little bit of sadness in my DWL so tested the nitrates and they were at 0, this being in the middle of the week between my two weekly doses of ferts. Probably owing to the loss of my final cories. So I did a third dose, and will test again tomorrow.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

I think my math was way off lmao... so I just wasted a couple gallons of water TToTT

Edit: Wait, no I wasn't. I think I need a much more accurate scale lmao. Shopping time again... I love home chemistry (this is genuine but it's also very expensive :'(... worth it)


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

@natemcnutty I've mixed water twice according to your recipe and the TDS is showing up so much higher than what you said??? I'm so confused lol, I bought a calibration solution for my TDS meter that I'm waiting to get here, I thought the meter was right because it seemed to match my tap and distilled water but I want to be sure. What form of CaSO4 are you using? I'm wondering if that could be the difference... I bought Gypsum (CaSO4 x 2H2O) because it was the most readily available but maybe I was wrong?

My new scale comes with a 10g weight and seems to be calibrated correctly so I don't _think_ that's the problem?? No idea what's going on lol.

In other exciting news, my last shrimp (Amano) seems to have come down with muscular necrosis. I'd do water changes, but I don't want to risk using my tap and the water I mixed up is pretty much unusable with such a high TDS. It's a few days yet until the calibration solution arrives. God, I just wish this tank would sort itself out already. I'm tempted to remake but nothing's really changed since the last time I did that, so idk if it would be worth all the effort and resulting exhaustion. Ugh!


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Bummer to hear you are still having some tank health issues. Is this the same one that started dirted?

As to the salts, I use CaSO4.2H2O as well, but I'm betting it's actually the MgSO4 that is throwing things off for you. I'm using the stuff from nilocg which is the larger grain salts. When you converted to grams, that was probably based on molar weight or powder or something. Even just a little bit of MgSO4 adds a lot of TDS.

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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

natemcnutty said:


> Bummer to hear you are still having some tank health issues. Is this the same one that started dirted?
> 
> As to the salts, I use CaSO4.2H2O as well, but I'm betting it's actually the MgSO4 that is throwing things off for you. I'm using the stuff from nilocg which is the larger grain salts. When you converted to grams, that was probably based on molar weight or powder or something. Even just a little bit of MgSO4 adds a lot of TDS.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


It's kind-of the same tank? It's got different substrate and a different actual tank lol but the rest of the stuff is the same and I didn't do a ton to disinfect stuff between tanks (I did rinse everything I think, but) so there's a chance there's something wrong with some of that... I just have no idea what it could be. But I'm not sure that's the case or that there's too much wrong with the tank itself other than the fluctuating parameters for the time being. The substrate seems fine, no bubbles or anything. I am also slightly concerned about contamination and trying to be more conscious about things like my cat's flea medication, my lotion and washing my hands really well, or wearing gloves (but that's hard because I have texture issues with gloves, though I'm trying to get over it)... But all it takes is one little slip-up I might not notice, so all I can really do there is just continue to improve my practices the best I can. It is a little warm in the tank for some reason, so I'm going to try and cut that down, maybe just outright unplug the heater when I get more stock; it was for the fish anyway and they croaked, so roud:

(Edit: I'm not quite sure whether there was any crossover between stock.. Some of the last remaining cories might have been present in both iterations of the tank, but I think this last shrimp had only been around for a couple months; I switched tanks in... July? Before I got your shrimp, even.)

Do you think I could just cut back on the MgSO4 until I hit the right TDS, then? I think all the other material is small grain...

As for anything else the TDS issue could be... I just got my calibration solution today and my TDS meter was calibrated almost perfectly (now it's only one degree off, haha, it was like three), so that's not it. I have been testing the water before I mineralize, that's not it either... The new scale I got was calibrated according to the calibration weight it came with, and it had good reviews--I probably don't have any reason to doubt the weight itself, do I? Lol.. :crying:


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Here's a sample of TDS of my mixes, and I've only been doing this for about three months. This is for my Spec V at work which I use as my second test tank.

12/29 - Start at 1 ppk
Sodium bicarbonate - Smidgen + Drop = 26,28 ppm
MgSO4 - Smidgen = 16,24 ppm
CaSO4 - Dash = 75,89 ppm
K2SO4 - Drop = 16,19 ppm
Final: 148 ppm

12/10 - Start at 1 ppm
Sodium bicarbonate - Smidgen + Drop = 27,28 ppm
MgSO4 - Smidgen = 19,20 ppm
CaSO4 - Dash = 86,81 ppm
K2SO4 - Drop = 13,14 ppm
Final: 145 ppm

11/25 - Start at 1 ppm
Sodium bicarbonate - Smidgen + Drop = 28 ppm
MgSO4 - Smidgen = 17 ppm
CaSO4 - Dash = 66 ppm
K2SO4 - Drop = 13 ppm
Final: 125 ppm

11/18 - Start at 2 ppm
Sodium bicarbonate - Smidgen + Drop = 27 ppm
MgSO4 - Smidgen = 20 ppm
CaSO4 - Dash = 77 ppm
K2SO4 - Drop = 13 ppm
Final: 139 ppm

It's not perfect every time, but as long as it averages out over time, it should be fine.

For everything else, that's such a bummer. I've totally ditched heaters in all my tanks, and even at 68F during the night, my tetras, cories, and guppies don't seem to care. Sounds like you've gone through the full gamut of possibilities which is so frustrating.

I've seen bad heaters and filters leak electrical current, filters that were apparently causing livestock loss, substrate that somehow absorbed toxins, airborne toxins from microwaves, and all sorts of weird things here on these forums. I hope you are able to figure it out, and if you're ever in the PDX area, I've got a ton of grass guppies you can have to test your tank [emoji14]

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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

@natemcnutty Thanks so much for that data! I haven't got around to using it yet but I hope to soon. I'll calculate out the number of grams I need using the TDS as a guide, and then we can have both sets of measurements. May waste a gallon or three of water in the process, but we'll see.

We keep our house pretty cool so I've been hesitant to lose the heaters but it's probably nbd and I just should. Had too many bad experiences with Too Many Guppies growing up LOL so I'll probably pass but thank you!!

I learned something... I think at some point my tank may have stopped being cycled? Or at least it can't handle as much ammonia as I cycled it with, which might make sense since I've only had small populations of shrimp in there and didn't feed very frequently... I dosed it again because now all I have in there is some small snails and I figured they probably aren't keeping the tank cycled by themselves, and it doesn't seem to be handling the ammonia as fast as when I cycled it. IDK if this had anything to do with any of the deaths I had, as they were all pretty sporadic and none of the ones I tested for anyway came with readable ammonia, I removed the bodies pretty quickly etc. But it is curious...


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Tried this time:
start at 3 TDS
CHNaO3: mine is in solution. dosed to 30 ppm
MgSO4: 0.20 grams; 30 ppm
CaSO4: 0.410 grams; 65 ppm
K2SO4: 0.050 grams; 13 ppm
Final: 137 ppm  


To try next time:
MgSO4: 0.140 grams
CaSO4: 0.470 grams


So it looks like I was actually massively off about the CaSO4 and K2SO4? Lmao...


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Nice! I don't have a scale actuate enough to do hundredths of grams... Only tenths 

Only thing to watch once you have that all dialed in is the eventual drift from evaporation. You can handle that by adding extra RO or just doing a double water change every few months 

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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

natemcnutty said:


> Nice! I don't have a scale actuate enough to do hundredths of grams... Only tenths
> 
> Only thing to watch once you have that all dialed in is the eventual drift from evaporation. You can handle that by adding extra RO or just doing a double water change every few months
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Thanks so much for all your help! I have been doing top-offs with RO but I need to be more on top of it (don't we all :hihi. I need to do a lot of clean-up and make sure everything's running right but hopefully I'll be ready to try shrimp again in the near-distant future!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Been away for awhile but coming back for a quick update... I'm still re-cycling my tank and unfortunately killed most of my snails in the process -_- Definitely didn't think enough about that before starting lmao. Anyway, RIP, but I think it's nearing completion (I guess as it should be, since according to this I started roughly a month ago). I guess I'll be doing some water changes and then hopefully on my way to more shrimp!


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Long time, no see! I don't know why it's taking as long as it is but my tank is definitely not done cycling. I guess I wasn't as on top of it as I could have been... Not sure if that has something to do with it. In any case, nitrate is sky-high, nitrite is... 0???? and only about 1 ppm ammonia is being handled every 12 hours, so I'm not exactly sure what's going on. Sounds like the cycle is maybe _actually_ nearing completion now, but who knows. I'm not in any rush though, I guess. I'm headed to Seattle in less than two weeks, just for a few days, but I wouldn't want to get shrimp before leaving... and at this rate, that's probably what would happen. I think I'll just keep feeding the tank no matter whether the cycle finishes or not...


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> Long time, no see! I don't know why it's taking as long as it is but my tank is definitely not done cycling. I guess I wasn't as on top of it as I could have been... Not sure if that has something to do with it. In any case, nitrate is sky-high, nitrite is... 0???? and only about 1 ppm ammonia is being handled every 12 hours, so I'm not exactly sure what's going on. Sounds like the cycle is maybe _actually_ nearing completion now, but who knows. I'm not in any rush though, I guess. I'm headed to Seattle in less than two weeks, just for a few days, but I wouldn't want to get shrimp before leaving... and at this rate, that's probably what would happen. I think I'll just keep feeding the tank no matter whether the cycle finishes or not...


Two months later and last I checked, it's still not cycled! But the TDS is uhhh over 500 at this point so I'm guessing that has something to do with it. Lol I'm going to do some water changes.


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