# Starting a dirted tank



## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sorry I didn't know where to specifically post this, and I also wanted go get a lot of feedback. So I have decided to try a dirted tank in a 10g tank. I'm going to keep it low tech and simple. I plan on using miracle grow organic potting mix, if that works. So I wanted to know what kind of prepping I would have to do on the soil and how much of it to put in. Also how long will the soil last before I have to start adding root tabs? As a side note question, is a dirted tank something a rookie should be attempting or is more for the advanced hobbyist? Thanks for the help everyone!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Check out the forum about substrate, there is a sticky at the top about mineralized soil. 
If you do this to the Miracle Grow it will leach less tannins into the water. 
I would put root tabs or Osmocote at the bottom from the beginning, but not very much. As the fertilizer is released from the tablets the soil will hold onto most of it until the plants take it. 
In a 10 gallon, I would keep it pretty shallow, perhaps an inch at the front, then build it up into whatever hills and valleys you want. A 10 is not very tall, so I would not try to mound up the substrate much at all. No room for the plants to grow, if the substrate is piled up too high. Use rocks or driftwood and plants that grow taller (still in scale for that tank size, though) for height.

here is the link to the mineralized soil concept, and there is another thread in the same place with more discussion. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...eralized-soil-substrate-mts-aaron-talbot.html


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

An alternate dirted tank: I used an inch of Miracle Gro Organic Choice and an inch on top of that of fine black sand. Less than one bag of Miracle Gro. Flat. I find that fertilizers help the plants a great deal.

I sifted the Miracle Gro through 1/4" metal mesh - hard but not impossible. I think it would help to get a spray bottle and wet down the top of the Miracle Grow, then pour water into the tank until it is enough to saturate the Miracle Grow. Create a space next to all the glass walls so that all you'll see is sand. Then put in the sand and spray it. Then pour in water until it reaches the top edges.

This is just the way I did it, there are other methods and you should read about them to see what appeals to you.


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## TankPlanter (May 31, 2015)

I'm a beginner and three months into my first dirted planted tank. Have learned a lot of lessons.

Re miracle gro: I just picked out the big sticks and put it in the tank, then wet it and mixed it with some red clay (iron). No more than 1" is the beginner recommendation to avoid anaerobic conditions. 

I capped it with about 3/4" of black diamond blasting sand, medium grade. I've read that gravel you want more like 1-2", but sand should be shallower to allow gas exchange since the particles restrict the flow.

I added trumpet snails to aerate and keep the tank clean (see my thread on to trumpet snail or not- I got lots of input first as to whether to add them or not).

My water was yellow for about the first two months with weekly water changes, 50% for the first few weeks then 25%.

I test the water weekly in between or just before water changes. I have never registered any ammonia or nitrites, not even at the beginning. I have a big sponge filter, and the tank cycled amazingly fast.

I've been advised that with dirt you need to start by planting heavily including some fast growers and floating plants to suck up nutrients.

Happy to answer any specific questions with my teeny tiny bit of experience!


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

I liked Django's method. My only question is why do saturat e the dirt? Also is very important to mix it with clay, dolomite, and potash, or is it ok if I just add the miracle gro organic potting mix by itself?


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Do I have to use miracle gro organic potting mix, or can I use miracle gro organic soil? Also what are the benefits of using dirt vs root tabs? How long is the dirt going to last before root tabs will have to be added in again, and after the dirt hs been exhausted is there any negative effects from the dirt remaining in the tank?


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## Dropline (Dec 30, 2014)

fishkeeper01 said:


> Do I have to use miracle gro organic potting mix, or can I use miracle gro organic soil? Also what are the benefits of using dirt vs root tabs? How long is the dirt going to last before root tabs will have to be added in again, and after the dirt hs been exhausted is there any negative effects from the dirt remaining in the tank?


Use SOIL (Garden or Topsoil), "Potting mix" has a lot of "Extra" stuff added that you will have to remove.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

fishkeeper01 said:


> Do I have to use miracle gro organic potting mix, or can I use miracle gro organic soil? Also what are the benefits of using dirt vs root tabs? How long is the dirt going to last before root tabs will have to be added in again, and after the dirt hs been exhausted is there any negative effects from the dirt remaining in the tank?



I believe miracle grow either changed their bags or possibly changed their product altogether recently so I'm not sure which is right anymore. 

Check the back of the bag for an ingredients list. You want to use something derived from "poultry litter" as opposed to cow manure. 

This is what the back of the bag used to look like:


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok so the tanks been running for a few days now, and it has a yellow tinge to the water. I have been keeping up with daily 50% water changes to help with the excess nutrients. How long will the water keep this yellowish color?

Can anyone help me out?


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## dirbrit (Oct 8, 2014)

Mines bin set up over a year. Still has a yellow tinge. But I like it.


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## The Big Buddha (Jul 30, 2012)

My first 40b was miracle grow, tannins like you couldn't imagine.
I just did the full mineralized top soil process for my 90, and what a difference, a lot less tannins.
It's a lot more work, but I wouldn't do the straight miracle grow again. My bags of miracle grow were full of twigs and organics. Running RO, all the large water changes to get rid of tannins was a pain.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

So is my tank doomed to be stained yellow?


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

fishkeeper01 said:


> I liked Django's method. My only question is why do saturat e the dirt? Also is very important to mix it with clay, dolomite, and potash, or is it ok if I just add the miracle gro organic potting mix by itself?


1) To keep it from floating.

2) I just put an inch layer of Miracle Gro and an inch of sand. Plust EI ferts on a continuing basis, but that is optional.

The tinting will go away - my tank has been perfectly clear for a long time. Shouldn't take more than a few weeks to clear, or maybe a couple of months. I would recommend one 50% waterchange per week. You really have to work this hobby with a slow hand. There is a whole process going on in there.

It would help a lot to put some fast-growing plants in there, get the cycles in the tank going and the plants taking up ammonia and growing.

I've read a lot of posts on substrate additives and Miracle Gro by itself is pretty good. Additives I think have their own respective merits.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

I've also heard that sand is not the way to go with dirted tanks? I remember I watched one of Dustinsfishtanks video and he talked about how sand is not the right thing to do cuz it causes to much anaerobic spots.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

I use play sand in all my dirted tanks. And I am not alone. Heck the most recent tank I setup has pure clay from my backyard, pond soil and play sand. The roots have already grew through all this as I can see under the tank.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm repeating myself I think but I use 1" of sand on top of MGOCPM. Works well, but I did have some gas pockets in the MG at first. The sand holds down the MG and prevents it from moving around the tank.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Is there anyway to avoid having the tannins? I would like to change my other betta tanks to dirted, but I don't want them to have all these tannins either.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

I sieved the mg and got some junk out. I had tannin-colored water at first, but it goes away. Just takes a month, or maybe two.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm sorry, what is sieved? Also will I eventually have to dose liquid ferts?


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

bump


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Is it just unavoidable?


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

fishkeeper01 said:


> I'm sorry, what is sieved? Also will I eventually have to dose liquid ferts?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*Sieve*http://www.bing.com/search?q=sieved&src=ie9tr#
A *sieve*, or *sifter*, is a device for separating wanted elements from unwanted material or for characterizing the particle size distribution of a sample, typically ...

Everybody's taste is different. At first I was not to impressed by the tannins in one of my tank. Now I would like it in all my tanks.

Some (or many) say you can't avoid adding ferts. Some will tell you to do it from the start in different forms. Others will say to delay. Learn to read the plants and the fauna. Delay will depend sooooo many factor... Substrate quality and quantity, plant growth rate, type of plants, fish load, filter/no filter, water change rate, water source chemistry, light level.

Go dirt and have fun


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Oh ok, yeah I sifted the dirt through like 1/4" wire. I know I'll just have to be patient. Hopefully the tannins will go away. But the plants are doing great, and the betta looks fine.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Should I still be dosing liquid fertilizers although the tank is dirted?


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## WickedOdie (Aug 15, 2015)

Depends on what you're trying to achieve. Honestly my dirted low tech tank is in great shape. My high tech dirted tank is in shambles at the moment lol.

My low tech dirted tank 10 gallon has 2 15w cfl's horizontally. It's growing sag and dwarf sag like nothing, it even has some AR in it. It's not pretty, but it's growing lol. The water sprite is doing well.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

fishkeeper01 said:


> Should I still be dosing liquid fertilizers although the tank is dirted?


I use dry ferts and maybe someone else that I don't know about does too?? As far as I'm concerned, it's been an experiment and it's entirely optional. It is working, though.

My thought about it is that the dirt feeds the root feeders and the ferts feed the leaf feeding plants.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

I got some brown hair algae forming, what could be the cause?


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## Dropline (Dec 30, 2014)

fishkeeper01 said:


> I got some brown hair algae forming, what could be the cause?


That's normal for a new dirted tank. The dirt is releasing a lot of water soluble nutrients. Have you been doing extra water changes? From what I read the first month on dirt will usually give the algae bloom before it stabilizes. That's why I mineralized mine to reduce the water soluble nuits.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

I've been doing 50% weekly water changes. Should I be doing more?


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## Dropline (Dec 30, 2014)

fishkeeper01 said:


> I've been doing 50% weekly water changes. Should I be doing more?


First I want to say, I did not dirt mine yet being I heard there can be issues the 1st 30-60 or so days and I am having family over in about 25 days (Turkey Day) and did not want to risk it being my tank looks pretty good right now. 

I would think extra water changes would help remove some of the nuits from the water column or the algae will do that for you or more plants maybe something that floats being those feed from water column and have unlimited co2 from floating. 

I think I read something about this in Walstad's book on planted aquarium but I would have to check the book for sure to say what she recommended.

EDIT>>
I don't see it flipping through the book about the 30 day outbreak, but it does list water changes and floating plants to help with general algae outbreaks.


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## dirbrit (Oct 8, 2014)

If u run the dirt thru a strainer (sieve) u Gan get the small pieces of wood out so less tannins. I have driftwood and didn't really sieve the wood out. My tank is pretty clear. But when I change the water it is tinged yellow. 

If u do large water changes it will be less yellow. People do compliment my tank on how clear it is. But I know I have a yellow tinge that's very light. 

So the driftwood is probably my largest issue


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## dirbrit (Oct 8, 2014)

Large water changes in the beginning are a must in my opinion the first cpl of months as the water is full of nutrients. You may have algae issues if u dont. 50 percent changes


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok so I got a few new questions. First one, I got a new light a couple weeks ago. As a result the sag and jungle val have been doing great. But how do I pull the runners out without stir up the tank? I did it once and a whole bunch of dirt came out with this tiny runner? Second question, how can I combat brown hair algae? So far it only shows up on my heater and I have been diligent about removing what I see when I see it.


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## Wilderman204 (Mar 5, 2015)

fishkeeper01 said:


> Ok so I got a few new questions. First one, I got a new light a couple weeks ago. As a result the sag and jungle val have been doing great. But how do I pull the runners out without stir up the tank? I did it once and a whole bunch of dirt came out with this tiny runner? Second question, how can I combat brown hair algae? So far it only shows up on my heater and I have been diligent about removing what I see when I see it.


To fight the algae you could add more plants, allow the plants to spread to help outcompete the algae, add some good algae eating snails, or try raising the light 1-2" and see if it stops. 
As for removing runners... Go sloooooowww. Turn off anything causing water movement. And if you aren't trying to keep the plants to re-use don't worry about leaving some roots behind, it will help "feed" your dirt in the future. Grab the plants firmly by the base, and use quick, very small rapid jerking movements to "jiggle" the roots loose. Plan plant removing around water changes so you can vac everything clean when your done. Expect things to get dirty, the plants love dirt and they won't want to let go of it.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Alright so the tanks been up for a couple months, and the beamswork fixture has been on for a litttle over a month, but there isn't much growth. Aside from the jungle val nothing has really been growing, in fact as you can see the moneywort only has leaves halfway up the stems. The dwarf sag and crypt wendtii, haven't put on new growth. I'm kind of frustrated because I don't know what's going on. Unfortunately I do not hae pics of when the tank was first set up, but I have some pics from today.


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## Wilderman204 (Mar 5, 2015)

I put dwarf sag in my first dirted tank. I didn't see any new growth for almost a month. Shortly after I saw the first runner emerge I was cursing myself for adding it. It spread so fast and aggressively, if I hadn't removed it, it would have carpeted the tank and smothered the other plants. The bacopa("moneywort") might want more CO2. The plants that are able to photsynthosize easier will use up all the CO2 faster. And your new light may be driving the plants hard enough that they require more co2 then they are currently getting. If your plants grow fast, the CO2 disappears fast. Don't go using Flourish Excel though, It will melt your Vals. Try raising your light, it's better to avoid CO2 until your more experienced.
Crypts are usually slow growers, just get used to it.


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## d33pVI (Oct 28, 2015)

To be honest it appears that you have a nicely balanced lo-tech tank going. At this point you just have to ask yourself what you really want out of it. If you are looking for rapid growth you will have to increase the 3 things plants need: light, nutrients and CO2. If you are simply looking for the tank to fill in more and stay with a low maintenance routine, the answer is simply to put in more plants!


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

So if I want more growth, I will have to look into co2 injection right? I really want the tank to fill in more. Only for some reason the stores here don't carry dwarf sag. Also should I scrap the Bacopa? I don't like how the leaves are so sparsely leaved, is there a better stem plant that I could try that may grow better?


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Bump


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## Wilderman204 (Mar 5, 2015)

Well if the bacopa isn't working in your current setup , remove it. Don't give yourself a headache.
Remember low tech setups require patience. Plants can grow up to 15x faster with pressurized c02 injection. Find yourself another fast growing stem plant to replace it. Read up on some plants, and Experiment until you find something that thrives in your set up. You never know until you give it a go. I found Hygrophila species do amazing in dirted tanks, they have Massive root systems


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## bsherwood (Nov 22, 2007)

I created my first dirted tank about 2 months ago. 55 gal. used 2 bags of MG organic and capped with black diamond blasting sand.

Things are growing like crazy. (it is a co2 tank also). This winter I hope to "dirt" my big tank and cap it with eco-complete. (as that is the substrate currently in that tank)


I have had zero issues with the black diamond sand.....so far....


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## Wilderman204 (Mar 5, 2015)

fishkeeper01 said:


> I've also heard that sand is not the way to go with dirted tanks? I remember I watched one of Dustinsfishtanks video and he talked about how sand is not the right thing to do cuz it causes to much anaerobic spots.


Aquatic and marginal plants commonly grow in heavily anaerobic substartes. They have adapted the ability to exude oxygen through the their roots, to supply aerobic bacteria in the root zone.( kind of how it works, not exactly) In an aquarium a large network of roots will be more than enough to prevent anaerobic bacteria from taking over all the substrate. The trick is to place/spread heavy rooting plants equally throughout, and not leave large areas unplanted. Things like aquatics worms and burrowing snails are also important . Malaysian trumpet snails will work the first 1-1.5" of substrate very effectively. Anaerobic pockets in the soil are also beneficial. Anaerobic bacteria can break down nitrate and make it even MORE bio available to your plants. But as usual, there needs to be a balance


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Other than hygrophila difformis, what are some easy growing stem plants?


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