# Hair Algae Consuming Moss / HC, advice?



## changaroo (Aug 16, 2017)

Hey all,

I've been fighting a losing battle with hair algae. I feel like I've dug through the depths of the internet to find a solution and whatever I'm doing doesn't seem to work. I've been manually removing it for now. I've reduced the light period to 6 hours, co2 on 1 hour before lights on, and goes off 1 hour before lights off.

*Tank Info*
•Size: 20 Gal Long
•Light: Finnex 24/7+ SE Planted Plus 
•Co2: DIY dual stage reg w/ Rex Griggs Reactor
•Filter: Eheim 2217
•Ferts: Thrive+, (have GLA EI ready to go, when thrive is used up)
•Fish: Some tetras / red cherry shrimp / ottos
•Plants: HC / DHG / some bacopia 
•Substrate: Controsoil

*Water Params*
•pH: ~7.5 co2 off / ~6.6 co2 on
•ammonia: 0 ppm
•nitrite: 0 ppm
•nitrates: 40-80 ppm
•KH: 4
•GH: 125.3 ppm
•Water change 50% a week / currently topping off w/ distilled water until RO system arrives (I know this will affect GH levels but they seem to be OK










My bonsai tree started out as a tree with fissidens fontanus, but is now almost a complete algae tree.

I've tried raising the lights ~3" and the results seem to have helped slightly, however the HC seems to be suffering from less light. I plan to bring it to ~2" and see if this improves. I'm currently dosing Thrive+ every other day along with some flourish excel.

Algae doesn't seem to be letting up. I purchased an RO water system, but I think its not related to the water... moreso a nutrient imbalance somewhere that I cannot seem to pinpoint. Perhaps I should switch over to EI earlier?

Thanks for any advice!


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

Your HC will suffer more being choked out by hair algae than from receiving less light. I would double up on that Excel daily and start doing more water changes. Manually remove whatever algae you can. This stuff really sucks. Your moss may die dosing high amounts of Excel, but the rest of your plants will love it. Honestly, I would consider just removing that moss. I'm seeing some dead spots in it, that's just going to add to your organics and feed the algae. 

Other option - the one two punch (H2O2 + Excel).

Can you post a full pic of your tank please? Thanks


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## MultiTankGuy (Jan 8, 2018)

change...

Your nitrates are some of the problem. Algae thrives in water with high levels of this form of nitrogen and the phosphates in some fish foods. If you feed a bit more like when you have fry in the tank, the uneaten food dissolves and adds to the problem. Some algae is a fact of life and some is a good water filter and supplement to your fishes' diet. Change more water and do it more often. A 20 G tank needs at least a 50 percent water change weekly. Twice weekly would go a long way in keeping added nutrients out of the tank water and will help control the growth of algae.

M


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

If it's just green hair algae and not mixed with rhizoclonium, the one-two punch will wipe it out. I have a moss tree in my tank and it became infested with hair algae, rhizo and BBA. My nitrates were also very high due to the organics in the water column. The moss acts as a filter pretty much, collecting all sorts of waste. I was successful with the one-two punch at ridding the moss of hair algae but the rhizoclonium came back a few days later. I got sick of dealing with it, so I just removed the whole tree and dunked it in a 5 gallon bucket of water and placed it in a dark room for 3 days. All the algae died after that and the BBA turned red. 

My amano shrimp have finally went to town on the dead algae but they have also pulled a great deal of the moss out of the tree. I just crammed the moss in the branches without CA glue, fishing line, thread, etc. Glad I did, now i can just keep stuffing fresh moss in there as it thins out, as well as pulling infested moss out of there without hassle.

I have pretty much just accepted the fact that moss will be a magnet for algae when water parameters get the slightest bit out of whack or the substrate gets disrupted. I consider the moss expendable.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Hair algae is 100% a problem of import. Manipulating conditions will not eliminate it. Even if you reduce it, it will always be lurking in the shadows, waiting to strike.

Temporarily relocate the livestock and treat with API Algaefix until all the hair algae has turned white and died. Otherwise you will be fighting it forever.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Glut (Excel or Metricide) treatment:

Stop the regular dosing of Excel. 

This treatment may kill your moss, but the once-per-week treatment I have found to not harm plants normally killed by Excel. I suggest starting at 1.5 ml of Excel per actual gallon (not tank rated gallons) and increase it by 1 ml / gal each week until all the hair algae responds.

This is only for red (hair-type) algae. Other types, such as GSA and GDA, are not significantly affected by glut. For hair algae, it’s a matter of hitting it with a sufficient quantity of glut and most people are terrified of doing this. I completely kill it within four days using the correct levels of glut. If you don’t feel comfortable with these levels, start with whatever dosing you feel comfortable and, after waiting a week, increase the dose each week until you prove it to yourself.

The key is finding the right amount to do the job as a function of the biomass and to do it once a week ONLY until the hair algae no longer returns (via recovery of the plant balance). For example; due to my current biomass, I found (after three weeks of increasing dosages beginning at 1.1 ml / gal), that 2 ml / gal of Metricide in my 26 gallons of water was needed, which is the equivalent of about 3 ml / gal of Excel. It used to be lower when my biomass was smaller. Since plants love glut, they will consume a lot of the dose within a few hours, thus the need to find the optimal level to kill the hair algae over a ~6-hour period.

This is far, far, above accepted limits and people tell me that I might as well detonate a nuclear bomb in my tank. However, not a single fish (wide range of community types – including corys), Amano, plant or BB has shown any sign of distress. I even have thriving anacharis in my tank, which melts under regular glut dosing but, again, it is the single dose that allows them all to withstand it. Regular dosing kills anacharis even at recommended levels. I should also note that none of my fish have grown two heads. The hair algae will turn the characteristic orange-brown in about four days, indicating that it has died.

Preparation: maximize oxygen. Glut is a reducing agent and will lower oxygen levels. At high doses, such as above, oxygen depletion may be high enough to be deadly to fish. I maintain a heavy surface rippling (two Hydor Koralia 240 GPH pumps pointed at the surface) all the time. In my case, this is enough gas exchange to compensate for any O2 reduction that may be caused by the glut. Turn off UV sterilizers on treatment day. It is also better if pH is below 7.0, as glut becomes more troublesome to fish as pH increases.This only has to be done the first day.

Some may be concerned about glut killing the BB in a filter or substrate. While I have never experienced this, you can simply shut the filter off for 6-8 hours to eliminate any concern.


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## changaroo (Aug 16, 2017)

mgeorges said:


> Your HC will suffer more being choked out by hair algae than from receiving less light. I would double up on that Excel daily and start doing more water changes. Manually remove whatever algae you can. This stuff really sucks. Your moss may die dosing high amounts of Excel, but the rest of your plants will love it. Honestly, I would consider just removing that moss. I'm seeing some dead spots in it, that's just going to add to your organics and feed the algae.
> 
> Other option - the one two punch (H2O2 + Excel).
> 
> Can you post a full pic of your tank please? Thanks


Heres a FTS, tank has seen better days ... please ignore the plants on the right, admist a iwagumi -> dutch style transition to try to increase biomass.













MultiTankGuy said:


> change...
> 
> Your nitrates are some of the problem. Algae thrives in water with high levels of this form of nitrogen and the phosphates in some fish foods. If you feed a bit more like when you have fry in the tank, the uneaten food dissolves and adds to the problem. Some algae is a fact of life and some is a good water filter and supplement to your fishes' diet. Change more water and do it more often. A 20 G tank needs at least a 50 percent water change weekly. Twice weekly would go a long way in keeping added nutrients out of the tank water and will help control the growth of algae.
> 
> M


Thank you. I will try to increase the water change levels, I am currently doing it once a week but I will try to squeeze in another.



madcrafted said:


> If it's just green hair algae and not mixed with rhizoclonium, the one-two punch will wipe it out. I have a moss tree in my tank and it became infested with hair algae, rhizo and BBA. My nitrates were also very high due to the organics in the water column. The moss acts as a filter pretty much, collecting all sorts of waste. I was successful with the one-two punch at ridding the moss of hair algae but the rhizoclonium came back a few days later. I got sick of dealing with it, so I just removed the whole tree and dunked it in a 5 gallon bucket of water and placed it in a dark room for 3 days. All the algae died after that and the BBA turned red.
> 
> My amano shrimp have finally went to town on the dead algae but they have also pulled a great deal of the moss out of the tree. I just crammed the moss in the branches without CA glue, fishing line, thread, etc. Glad I did, now i can just keep stuffing fresh moss in there as it thins out, as well as pulling infested moss out of there without hassle.
> 
> I have pretty much just accepted the fact that moss will be a magnet for algae when water parameters get the slightest bit out of whack or the substrate gets disrupted. I consider the moss expendable.


Thank you. Ive looked into the one two punch but havent done it yet. As far as I can see its just hair algae and maybe some BBA (maybe from the effects of raising the light? never had them before). I may gut the tree of all the algae / moss and start over.



Axelrodi202 said:


> Hair algae is 100% a problem of import. Manipulating conditions will not eliminate it. Even if you reduce it, it will always be lurking in the shadows, waiting to strike.
> 
> Temporarily relocate the livestock and treat with API Algaefix until all the hair algae has turned white and died. Otherwise you will be fighting it forever.


I will do this as a last ditch effort, the only tank I have is a 5 gallon and I dont think 15+ tetras would be happy in it 



Deanna said:


> Glut (Excel or Metricide) treatment:
> 
> Stop the regular dosing of Excel.
> 
> ...


I will play around with the levels of excel. I learned the hard way, I sprayed some excel on the algae covered moss during a water change, and it killed the moss and not the algae lol.

Currently dosing 1 capful a day, but I can try the once a week method and see if it changes. I appreciate your input!


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

changaroo said:


> I learned the hard way, I sprayed some excel on the algae covered moss during a water change, and it killed the moss and not the algae lol.


You may not. Strafing it with a direct shot is a very high concentration. Diluted in your tank may not be enough to affect the moss.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

The moss is especially vulnerable to algae since the wood/moss traps all kinds of organics and it's high up in the water column. You really needed to have a very short light cycle probably around 4 hours and only 1 hour or so of high intensity (if you could've done it with that light.) 

If it's mostly the moss that's the issue, I personally wouldn't aggressively chase it with all kinds of chemicals. Plenty of people lost all of their critters/fish from that One Two Punch Thread.

I would remove the wood and see if you could salvage any of the moss. Clean up the wood using some excel/met and then put it back in with some clean moss. Add some more plants if possible and then go to a 4 hour photo period. I've easily grown full rich carpets with just 4 hours of light. Do semi-weekly water changes, load up the filter with carbon (to soak up organics and keep the tank clean and keep fertilizing so nothing runs out with good co2.


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

You could also cut back on the intensity with that Finnex light as well, although it looks to be pretty low light at the substrate as it is. I doubt you're much over 30 PAR there. My moss tree was literally inches from my planted plus LED, so the hair algae/rhizo just thrived there. So the light didn't help any. It was the organics in the water that was the cause for me. I am much more diligent about rinsing my filter media every two weeks in my nano tank. I also do 50% water changes twice a week now but I have a high bioload and mostly carpeting plants.

I recently planted an anubias nana petite under my moss tree that receives barely any light and it still had a little hair algae forming on a few leaves. Damn stuff. I'm sick of it!!! I added a juvenile SAE to my tank for the time being and it has kept the hair algae in check. These fish work well as a preventative measure more so than an actual "clean up" crew. My tank is now algae free...for the most part.

Having said all that, I agree with the above statement... just remove the wood and add fresh moss... if it's just limited to the moss. You can salvage some of the infected stuff if you want by placing the moss in a container in a dark room for a few days, but moss is pretty cheap compared to other aquatic species of plants.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

changaroo said:


> I will do this as a last ditch effort, the only tank I have is a 5 gallon and I dont think 15+ tetras would be happy in it


Depending on the species they could be alright. 

I do not agree with the suggestions to replace the moss. If hair algae remains in the tank, the new moss will just get reinfected and you will keep fighting the problem.

One-two punch will stress the algae. It may kill all of it, it may not. The reason I advocate for Algaefix is it's relatively gentle on plants (some like monte carlo don't like it, but won't outright die either) while specifically targeting filamentous algae.

I think it would behoove you to focus strongly on fully exterminating this algae from your tank. After doing this, it will not come back, even if tank conditions become very bad.


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## changaroo (Aug 16, 2017)

quick update... just noticed a ton of baby shrimp, this is going to affect my frequent water changes... any good tips on how to vac the substrate to get rid of fish waste without sucking up baby shrimp?

nothing else has changed, now noticing some black beard algae


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

I just keep my siphon up a little higher and quickly wave it back and forth across the carpet and let the turbulence from that stir up detritus while siphoning it up the best I can. You could also use a turkey baster, gravel rake, scraper, hand, etc. while siphoning. Or you could just leave it be. It's all food in the end.


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## coronarex (May 21, 2017)

I had hair algae really bad until I nuked my tank with 50/50 excel/hydrogren peroxide. Killed every single fish except one platy and one amano shrimp and 70% of my plants. Hair algae GONE!!! and I had that [censored] everywhere. it was on the pumps, heater, and all my plants. It literally killed me to see it in my tank. Fastforward 3 months later and I do have a few specs that are the size of the tip of a pencil, cant see them. I directly pipette those spots with excel. Just sharing my exp. Hate algae!!!


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

coronarex said:


> *I had hair algae really bad until I nuked my tank with 50/50 excel/hydrogren peroxide. Killed every single fish except one platy and one amano shrimp and 70% of my plants. *Hair algae GONE!!! and I had that [censored] everywhere. it was on the pumps, heater, and all my plants. *It literally killed me to see it in my tank*. Fastforward 3 months later and I do have a few specs that are the size of the tip of a pencil, cant see them. I directly pipette those spots with excel. Just sharing my exp. Hate algae!!!


So you killed 70% of your plants and pretty much all your fish, but you got rid of the algae because it killed you seeing it :surprise:


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

coronarex said:


> I had hair algae really bad until I nuked my tank with 50/50 excel/hydrogren peroxide. Killed every single fish except one platy and one amano shrimp and 70% of my plants. Hair algae GONE!!! and I had that [censored] everywhere. it was on the pumps, heater, and all my plants. It literally killed me to see it in my tank. Fastforward 3 months later and I do have a few specs that are the size of the tip of a pencil, cant see them. I directly pipette those spots with excel. Just sharing my exp. Hate algae!!!


So I'm assuming you didn't do the modified one-two punch method? That too uses both of those chemicals but in somewhat safe levels. All my snails, amanos and fish survived the one-two punch but the hair algae was the only victim it claimed. BBA and rhizoclonium also survived that one time treatment. I probably wouldn't do it again. There are other ways of dealing with this stuff. It may require removing my shrimps, but still better than fighting a losing battle with potentially dangerous chemicals that are only somewhat effective. Hindsight is always 20/20.


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## coronarex (May 21, 2017)

Yes, I got rid of the hair algae. Of course it killed me to see it, it looked like crap. But it was mostly due to my carelessness. I have been in this hobby for a little over a year. I have learned a lot on here but ive learned a ton from my mistakes. Tank is looking awesome ATM, figures crossed.

Bump: I agree totally. I will proceed with caution in the future. What other methods have you tried? I have a 10 gallon nano(low tech) that sits right next to a window, that is bulletproof. Never had any algae whatsoever(running for over a year). Recently, I have noticed small, pencil tip blobs of BBA.


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## infolific (Apr 9, 2016)

Deanna said:


> The key is finding the right amount to do the job as a function of the biomass and to do it once a week ONLY until the hair algae no longer returns (via recovery of the plant balance)... Since plants love glut, they will consume a lot of the dose within a few hours, thus the need to find the optimal level to kill the hair algae over a ~6-hour period.


You mention biomass as a factor for how much glut ends up being needed. Have you noticed any impact to the glut levels needed when there's pressurized CO2 being injected vs not injected?

Also, when you're in the "figuring things out" stage of adding more and more glut weekly, is there any change needed to one's water change schedule to "reset" conditions before increasing the glut dose?


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## Ben3721 (Jan 20, 2018)

For green hair/fuzz algae, it loves high tds from organics in the water column, I defeated it by feeding less and removing it while running a UVC filter to kill the spores. Took me forever to figure it out, took months and many forum posts. I used to just limit light to fight it, but it still came back.

For me, having decent fert levels didnt help at all.

However in your situation you need to find out how to kill it without killing your plants. That's going to be tricky.

That's just my nasty experience with it.


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## infolific (Apr 9, 2016)

Deanna said:


> This treatment may kill your moss, but the once-per-week treatment I have found to not harm plants normally killed by Excel. I suggest starting at 1.5 ml of Excel per actual gallon (not tank rated gallons) and increase it by 1 ml / gal each week until all the hair algae responds.


I just got through my first week using the above method. My modifications included:

1. I started at 1 ml / gallon. My wife's favourite fish is in the tank so I had to be extra careful 
2. I also pulled some water out first and had it in a bucket in case I saw any fish in distress. It turned out to not be needed.
3. I didn't dose the entire amount in one shot. Instead I put in 5ml at a time using a pump to spread it around the tank. I waited a few minutes in between each batch to see if any fish showed distress. No distress.

Much of the BBA turned red two days after the treatment. It took a few more days for the BBA to actually disappear from the wood. I'm now in a holding pattern to see what BBA survives before considering another dose.

Otos, angels, SAE, red-lizard whiptail, and pseudomugils were all fine. Mystery snails also seemed fine. I can't tell if all assassin snails made it as I have too many to count, but I didn't see any empty shells.

I have a large assortment of plants and the only one that seems to have taken a hit is the water sprite. It didn't die, but a lot of yellowing leaves so some cleanup will be in order. I don't have any moss to comment on.

I can't believe it's taken me 3 years to find this approach, but I'm glad I did. Thanks @Deanna!


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

infolific said:


> You mention biomass as a factor for how much glut ends up being needed. Have you noticed any impact to the glut levels needed when there's pressurized CO2 being injected vs not injected?
> 
> Also, when you're in the "figuring things out" stage of adding more and more glut weekly, is there any change needed to one's water change schedule to "reset" conditions before increasing the glut dose?


CO2 levels make no difference (mine are in the 40ppm area). The important thing to keep an eye on are O2 levels. Glut is a reducing agent, so keep pumps pointed at the surface for good rippling, which maximizes O2 exchange.

It's a one-day treatment. The glut will be gone within a day, so water changes won't impact it, provided you don't do w/c's within a day of dosing.


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## FischAutoTechGarten (Jul 11, 2003)

I just tried this same treatment... about 1.25ml to a gallon.... I have about 133+ gallons... with 100 of it being 6 display tanks.... and 30 of it being the two section sump... maybe 3 gallons in the lines.

I did a really good job 3 days ago pulling out the hair algae and removing drift wood. Also did a 50% water change. I've cut the lighting ot simulate cloudy days and run it less than 8 hours a day. Today I did the Treatment. Tomorrow evening, I'd like to do a 25% water change.

It has been an hour so far and I've seen no reaction from any fish watsoever. I'm running an airstone in each display tank... a wave pump in each display tank... and am turning over the water in the whole system about 5 to 6 times an hour. I also put an airstone in the sump section that has the filter socks and poret foam... So, I'm moving lots of water and introducing as much air/oxygen as possible.

Still running CO2 too, based on pH (6.5).

I put the troublesome drift wood in a 5 gallon bucket and dosed 10mL of Excel.... I'll wash it all tomorrow thoroughly and introduce into the tank prior to the 30% water change.

The wave pumps are set to run just 5 minutes every 30 minutes.... I don't want to wear the fish out as the current is a bit stronger as I removed some plants as I was geetting the hair algae clumps out....


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