# Tahitian Moon Sand = Black Silica Sand?



## crcarlsontech (Jul 10, 2012)

Ok so whats the truth behind Tahitian Moon Sand?

I *think* its just black silica sand similar to pool filter sand which is beige/white silica sand. Tahitian Moon Sand markets that their product as "instant aquarium" as the sand comes with dechlorinator packets and is soaked in something that smells totally like sulphur -- i usually wash this crap out of the sand before I use it, besides it makes your house smell like an outhouse. 

So I have found black silica sand occasionally on Amazon but I am not sure what the grain size is. 

Bottom line is - I am tired of paying through the nose for Tahitian Moon Sand. If there is a source for black silica sand similar to this I would rather just buy that. Anyone have any suggestions?


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

You can use black blast, or black beauty blasting media for sand. 50lbs bag runs around 7-10 bucks depending on where you get it. I've been using it in all my tanks so far, cory/loach/shrimp/snail safe. The cories sift it through their gills no problems.


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## crcarlsontech (Jul 10, 2012)

Is black beauty silica sand or coal? I used to work in blasting media and I could have swore black beauty was coal?


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

Taken from the black beauty site...low free silica coal slag blasting abrasives
Both of the ones I posted are coal slag. 
Is there a special reason you need silica sand?


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## KribsDirect (Nov 15, 2013)

crcarlsontech said:


> Is black beauty silica sand or coal? I used to work in blasting media and I could have swore black beauty was coal?


Yea, its coal slag. Black beauty, black diamond. Many places aren't going to sell it, or silicates, because of law suits etc regarding respiratory problems.


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## crcarlsontech (Jul 10, 2012)

KribsDirect said:


> Yea, its coal slag. Black beauty, black diamond. Many places aren't going to sell it, or silicates, because of law suits etc regarding respiratory problems.


I live in florida, Florida Sand and Silica readily sells Black Beauty. Gives you black lung if you don't wear a proper respirator.

Ive just always thought that coal wouldnt be good for aquarium use? Seems like it would break down over time where as silica sand would not?

If you use black beauty in your tanks with no problems I will be headed over to Florida Sand and Silica tomorrow!


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## crcarlsontech (Jul 10, 2012)

Just a thought about my original post and the fluid that Tahitian moon sand is shipped in... 

I wonder if they do this so that there is no coal dust for the end user / purchaser? Would also explain the fine black particulates in tahitian moon sand that most people say you should rinse thoroughly... 

I think I am onto something here lol.


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

A lot of people use these in their tanks not just me. Coal slag is inert, and kind of glass like, shouldn't put anything in your tank.


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

Any sand, or blasting sand, can kill you. They may ship it in liquid to cut down on the dust I dunno. Thing is you have to be exposed to the particles floating around in the air breathing a decent amount in to get silicosis usually. Breathing a bit while setting up a fish tank isn't going to hurt.


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## crcarlsontech (Jul 10, 2012)

This thread just made Sunday complete. Thanks for your input Sake!

Edit : Sorry CarribSea. Money doesn't flow like it used to.


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

Glad to be of assistance


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## KribsDirect (Nov 15, 2013)

I realize my previous comment may have come off as a negative view of the slag, sorry if so. I use Black Diamond with no problems. Everything Sake said is correct, its inert and very much like sand/glass. I would suggest 20/40 grain size or higher, as the fine is almost like dust. Some don't bother but I rinse mine in a pillow case to get the fine bits and slight oil film out. It is good to go, just hard to find where I live, hence my previous comment. 

Cheers


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## mattjm20 (Nov 2, 2013)

I am also using black diamond, I think it was the 40-60 variety. I like it so far. I put it in the tank about three weeks ago and didn't rinse it... i have a very slight film on the water surface after not doing a water change for a week, but it doesn't really seem like a problem. I trusted in it as a substrate on the basis of widespread positive comments on the internet, so hopefully they are accurate


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

I always rinse my substrate, the black blast sand I used had alot of dust in it. A little bit of time now, can save tons of time later. Besides for me it was easy just dumped it in a 5 gallon bucket and let the hose run in the bottom stirring it up, went inside and sat for a half hour, done lol.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Just going to say without getting into it cause i know there's folks on here that swear on their lives on the stuff, i have never trusted that coal slag stuff, most LFS don't trust the coal slag stuff, and there is a lot of people apart from myself that have seen the oily sheen it leaves ontop of a tank surface even after a sh*t ton of washing, and it stains buckets, so i'm not sure if i would agree it's completely inert. Now it's becoming illegal in states for health reasons. 

It's also super sharp for fish, so if you keep fish with it that like to sift sand you run the risk of your fish getting microcuts, and becoming susceptible to infection. I used it for a 65g planted geophagus tank, and nothing but problems, snails never wanted to live. Removed it, and never had a issue again. Just saying....


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

CrypticLifeStyle said:


> Just going to say without getting into it cause i know there's folks on here that swear on their lives on the stuff, i have never trusted that coal slag stuff, most LFS don't trust the coal slag stuff, and there is a lot of people apart from myself that have seen the oily sheen it leaves ontop of a tank surface even after a sh*t ton of washing, and it stains buckets, so i'm not sure if i would agree it's completely inert. Now it's becoming illegal in states for health reasons.
> 
> It's also super sharp for fish, so if you keep fish with it that like to sift sand you run the risk of your fish getting microcuts, and becoming susceptible to infection. I used it for a 65g planted geophagus tank, and nothing but problems, snails never wanted to live. Removed it, and never had a issue again. Just saying....


Why would a fish store "trust" this? They stand to make more money if they don't.
As far as the oily sheen, after a half hour of washing I had 0 problems with it, any substrate needs to be washed. 
Illegal in states? Please tell me what states? I have never heard of it being illegal in any state. I just googled it and couldn't find it being illegal please if you're going to make a statement like that tell us what state it's illegal in so I can look up the details.
Super sharp for fish? I have never had any issues with cories or loaches, all my fish burrow into it sift it through there sensitive gills and are doing just fine. barbels all in place, gills looking fine. I've ran my hand through it dozens of times never got cut. Snails not living? I haven't had any issues. I have MTS, ramshorn, pond snails, and assassin snails. My assassins seem to love this seeing as I went from 6 to well over 100 in under a year. All other snails are doing fine also. Perhaps you should check your water parameters? Just saying....


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Sake said:


> Why would a fish store "trust" this? They stand to make more money if they don't.
> As far as the oily sheen, after a half hour of washing I had 0 problems with it, any substrate needs to be washed.
> Illegal in states? Please tell me what states? I have never heard of it being illegal in any state. I just googled it and couldn't find it being illegal please if you're going to make a statement like that tell us what state it's illegal in so I can look up the details.
> Super sharp for fish? I have never had any issues with cories or loaches, all my fish burrow into it sift it through there sensitive gills and are doing just fine. barbels all in place, gills looking fine. I've ran my hand through it dozens of times never got cut. Snails not living? I haven't had any issues. I have MTS, ramshorn, pond snails, and assassin snails. My assassins seem to love this seeing as I went from 6 to well over 100 in under a year. All other snails are doing fine also. Perhaps you should check your water parameters? Just saying....


 I'm fortunate enough to be on a first name basis with most of the LFS in this fine state of mine, and they don't ever try to push products on me, nor ever fill my head up with a bunch of BS, and will always send me elsewhere if it's cheaper. They dont care to make money off me. There's a mutual respect as i've been in the aquarium hobby for a long time now. 

When i got into the planted tank aspect, and saw blasting grit as a cheap alternative so i asked around, and the consensus was dont bother i dont trust it, and spoke of the total lack of testing, and some of the examples i gave. I tried it anyways, in fact i bought a few hundred pounds of the stuff for other forum members on here since i lived near a tractor supply store at the time, and they didn't. Some of them saw the exact same thing. It's been brought up on this forum, and others before. 

Some people like you, and others apparently have no issues, or just didnt relate or notice them i dont know, but there are people that have had problems, or have noticed things. So because of that i think it was worth mentioning.

I kept Geophagus tapajos redheads, Geophagus Sp. Leucosticta "earth eaters" which i bred for many years, and sold to local shops so wasnt a lack of experience with the fish i had kept a couple pairs in this particular tank, nothing but problems, MTS, and ramshorn snails never seemed to want to live. Lost a beautiful Bolivian ram in this tank. All my parameters were fine, nothing un-usual or new that i havn't done for ions in the tank except for the black diamond stuff.

Removed the stuff, everything went back to normal again. As far as illegal goes that would be my bad, i worded it wrong, meant more or less what KribsDirect was saying on page 1.


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

While there are decent LFS, not all are created equal, they wouldn't stock that material seeing as it isn't marketed for fish. They may have no idea what it is, doesn't mean it's not a good substrate. 

The only person I have heard say anything bad about it is you. We've had this conversation before I believe. I see hundreds of posts about people using it though. So what state exactly is it illegal in? Show me a few threads where people are having issues. I really would like to see it so I can research more, but without these I am having issues believing what you say, sorry 

We have hundreds of users using this material without issues, you may of had issues, maybe a bad batch or something like that, but I kinda like my odds with this stuff.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Use the search function, i really dont care to prove you wrong, just wanted to share my 2 cents, and i already commented on the illegal state part. 

As far as LFS go, it's not about whether they stock it or not. They are hobbyists too, they have tanks at home, they come on here, and other forums. It's not business when we talk, it's a friend thing. Yeah we probably have the last time i cared to chime in on the subject, and i do believe there was some others that shared my thoughts on those threads, but you can do the search work lol. 

Here's a thread that another tpt member gave me pics for when it came up on another forum that shows that lovely stain he couldnt brush off the bucket. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=266385


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

I've already used the sites search function and google neither turned up any results. 
As far as the states, I haven't seen you reply to that at all yet where did you reply to that? Ah okay I see you worded it wrong sorry just seen that lol. As far as you really don't care to prove me wrong, well then why did you come in here and say something without wanting to back it up? That makes no sense.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Sake said:


> As far as you really don't care to prove me wrong, well then why did you come in here and say something without wanting to back it up? That makes no sense.


 Because it's 10-11pm, i know people hate it when i share my thoughts on it, and i just simply wanted to share my opinion, and experience with it not caring much to debate it cause really without scientific proof on both ends it's a back, and forth discussion. Just a little moral choice i made to say something opposed to nothing.


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

Hundreds of people using it and I can only find 1 person who's had issues, while may not be scientific, it's definitely proof to me.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

I actually just found the thread we both spoke on, took 2 min with the search function. 

Hey i use to be the only one suspecting carbon being a cause of hith too, and it turned out i was onto something, and hey millions used/use it.
I dont think coal slag is really all that safe, you do. Just going to leave it at that.

When i see on the OSHA website things like "coal slag will typically contain nickel and vanadium and a variety of other metals depending on the source of the coal used to make the slag." Just further enforces my bad vibe on it. How do you test for that in a aquarium? How does that not eventually leak out? Now we all know the human health hazards breathing the [censored][censored][censored][censored] in, will we do that putting it in the tank, probably not, but honestly when you weigh out is saving a few bucks for a fish tank really worth the risk?


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

You're the one that found the link to Hole in the head? You proved it? I love how you come in here saying that it's unsafe yet won't present facts, the burden of proof is on you, not me, hundreds use this stuff without issue. If you want to contribute to the hobby come up with facts instead of spouting out it's bad it's bad believe me! It's people like you who set the hobby back years spreading rumors without presenting facts, like saying how it's illegal or going to be in some states when that simply isn't true. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience but until you come up with facts, I am going to continue to use it and recommend it. If you do come up with facts, I will be one of the first to say thanks! I was wrong.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

I believe coal slag is from the impurities in coal that don't get burnt up (similar to fly ash, except the slag doesn't float away on the smoke). Most of our coal is from plant matter that piled up in bogs and stuff. The lower grade stuff had some silt and what not caught up with the dead vegetation, and I believe that's what turns into fly ash and coal slag after burning.

Coal slag is basically glass- everything is melted and mixed together, and then cooled before the different compounds could crystallize. It's been a while since I've read up on anything like this, but I believe the vitreous state effectively locks in pretty much everything, and prevents anything dissolving/leaching out.

I have heard some mixed reports regarding certain brands, but I've also heard many more reports of healthy tanks and inhabitants using the more common brands. Maybe some of the 'bad' stuff is recycled, which would bring in all sorts of contaminants (paint chips, metal dust, etc.)?

As to the black stains on the bucket, I think that's just the super-fine particles sitting in the scratches and stuff. You'll see a similar effect sometimes if you fill a bucket with wet clay - it will permanently have a reddish/brownish tint that won't wash out. It's just the fine clay particles that have embedded in the cracks. 

As to coal itself - I ran into a book fairly recently that had a set up involving coal. Kinda interesting, and I can't think of a very good reason why you couldn't put coal in an aquarium - it's not soluble or anything...


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## crcarlsontech (Jul 10, 2012)

lochaber said:


> I believe coal slag is from the impurities in coal that don't get burnt up (similar to fly ash, except the slag doesn't float away on the smoke). Most of our coal is from plant matter that piled up in bogs and stuff. The lower grade stuff had some silt and what not caught up with the dead vegetation, and I believe that's what turns into fly ash and coal slag after burning.
> 
> Coal slag is basically glass- everything is melted and mixed together, and then cooled before the different compounds could crystallize. It's been a while since I've read up on anything like this, but I believe the vitreous state effectively locks in pretty much everything, and prevents anything dissolving/leaching out.
> 
> ...


Which leads me right back to this ;I think Tahitian Moon Sand is Coal Slag soaked in treated water and marketed as "Instant Aquarium". The treated water keeps the coal dust under control for the end user reliving them of any legal worries. (i think.)

The slick one user described happens to Moon Sand also when you do not rinse it and it also has a fine black powder that stains my buckets. The properties of both coal slag and tahitian moon sand are the same. 

I just got off the phone with my local blasting media supplier. I will be picking up 100lbs of coal slag this week and report my comparisons. 

As far as the sharp edges one user mentioned, you could remedy this if it is really that big of a deal by using a composter to turn the coal slag over and over. The tumbling would cause the coal slag to dull itself, rinse with water to remove particulate matter that results from tubling, and that should solve any worries about micro abrasions on your fish.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Sake said:


> You're the one that found the link to Hole in the head? You proved it? I love how you come in here saying that it's unsafe yet won't present facts, the burden of proof is on you, not me, hundreds use this stuff without issue. If you want to contribute to the hobby come up with facts instead of spouting out it's bad it's bad believe me! It's people like you who set the hobby back years spreading rumors without presenting facts, like saying how it's illegal or going to be in some states when that simply isn't true. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience but until you come up with facts, I am going to continue to use it and recommend it. If you do come up with facts, I will be one of the first to say thanks! I was wrong.


 I said in my opinion it's unhealthy. You have a way of responding by putting words in my mouth simply cause you don't like my opinion, in fact you've been pretty damn rude in every response. Even when i disagree, maybe it's maturity level, but i really try to not be a total @ss like yourself. 

I dont think the proof of an opinion is on me, it's a opinion, take it or leave it. I dont think i need to spend x amount of time trying to prove that opinion because you disagree with it. By sharing my experience, and opinion does contribute to the hobby if you like it or not. Spreading rumors? haha 

For the 3rd or 4th time about the state legalality i thought this was cleared up a bit ago by my mis-wording, but for your own argument sake you keep bringing it up without any regard to the fact i corrected myself. 

As far as the hith goes i was bringing it up in forums just like this coal slag crap as a theory. Years later lab tests, and scientists were publishing some articles showing it may very well be a cause of hith. Yet you reworded what i said just to be a @ss. Pretty sure i was simply stating as an example i got a lot of sh*t for bringing it up, and it turned out that theory, that concern of mine may actually be true.


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## crcarlsontech (Jul 10, 2012)

Just to get back on-topic, I found some links regarding this ;

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27441

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/coal-slag-blasting-sand-for-substrate-109139.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111019150413AA3R8gO

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f...ubstrate-anyone-actually-tried-it-208526.html

Seems like the general consensus is coal slag does not produce any issues. Loaches and corys might not like it -- but if they dont like coal slag they wouldnt like pool filter sand either. 

As long as the coal slag does not degrade molecularly over time releasing by product submerged in water, I really dont see any problem. Alternatively if the coal slag is too sharp put it in a tumbler or composter and roll the heck out of it, might help the sharpness, but it also might make it sharper? 

One thing is for sure, I will know more by the end of next week


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

Oh believe me I have been nice lol. You are the one who came in there stating things that simply were not true, passing off your opinions as fact, the state comment proves that. Yes I brought it up again because that was your attempt to pass your opinion off as facts. I asked nicely for your facts and the reply I got was "Use the search function, i really dont care to prove you wrong," I'm fairly sure the whole @ss comment can be directed at you. 

The burden of proof is on you, you are the one disagreeing with the majority that have used this for years. No one else has issues why would they be forced to prove you wrong? 

The state comment was brought back up to show you how you try to pass off your opinion as facts plain and simple. Stating it's about to be illegal even though there is no proof of that only strengthened your opinion. You just don't like getting called out on it I guess.

Hole in the head, that was another attempt by you to pass off your opinion stating oh, I knew that caused hole in the head, before everyone else, you should believe me on this! 

This is the 2nd time you have came in spouting false facts, I was polite for the first thread I was polite for the second thread for the most part until you decided to come in state facts that were incorrect, then refuse to state where you found these facts. To me that is spreading rumors and setting the hobby back. 

Point is if you had shown your sources on your facts, or said this is my opinion instead of trying to pass it off as facts this conversation would of never happened. But when someone comes in posting facts that aren't true, I'm sorry I'm not going to sit back and say nothing.


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

No dog in this fight, but I've raised hundreds of cories on *Black Beauty* 20-40 slag. I have 4 tanks with it now, for years, and I have no issues with it at all. Khuli loaches, snails, plants flourish.....There are other brands of slag that I cannot speak about because I've never used them. I can tell you that this is an old argument that's been discussed to death on this and other forums and a cursory search on Google will produce more than enough evidence that it works and is harmless. OP, you can buy 80 lb bags of 20-40 grit BB at Tractor Supply for $8. I don't know what your local slagmonger is selling you that 100 lbs for, but at 8 bucks I would probably take the ride to Tractor Supply and get it there, where you're working with a known commodity. Who knows what Tahitian Moon sand is. Apparently it's an aquarium substrate. That's all we know. Presumably it's harmless and appropriate for fish tanks. More costly.


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

lochaber said:


> I have heard some mixed reports regarding certain brands, but I've also heard many more reports of healthy tanks and inhabitants using the more common brands. Maybe some of the 'bad' stuff is recycled, which would bring in all sorts of contaminants (paint chips, metal dust, etc.)?


Black Beauty is soft to the touch. I don't know what Hoppy was using in his tank when he had the problems with grit (he's the only one I've ever seen say anything about sharp grit). I think we determined that he used another brand grit and it was early in the "grit wars" when he used it. 




lochaber said:


> As to the black stains on the bucket, I think that's just the super-fine particles sitting in the scratches and stuff. You'll see a similar effect sometimes if you fill a bucket with wet clay - it will permanently have a reddish/brownish tint that won't wash out. It's just the fine clay particles that have embedded in the cracks.


That's exactly what it is. There is no "oil" in this black stain. It's simply dust very much like clay.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

For what it's worth at this stage of the thread, I've had a tank running for about 15 years with Tahitian moon sand. No problems at all, with many different inhabitants. Back in the Clinton administration :icon_wink, it was set up with a school of neons and cories, then housed a spotted Raphael catfish for all of W's admin, and at the end of Obama's first term, I changed it over to a shrimp tank. The first and most recent setups were planted tanks, and the plants did and are doing great. 

Sorry for the history lesson, but I think it underscores the success I've had with this substrate. And just to continue the political thing, that Raphael was old enough to vote in last year's election. :icon_cool


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