# DIY LED Lighting for a 100g 20-22" deep tank questions



## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Hi

I am in a designing phase of my planted build and was reading a lot about LED lights that are available for planted tanks. Coming back to FW from a reef tank, I am a big fan of DIY LEDs and was running them at all times in my reef setups. My first thought was to modify my current LED light that features Cree XM-L and X-PE Leds, but with my busy life I might opt for buying an already made light instead. 
I have some knowledge about LEDs for a saltwater tank in general, but after reading posts on planted tank and seeing pictures of people setups featuring leds, I realized I was way behind regarding FW LED lighting. 
I have a source that can get me AquaIllumination Hydras for very good price, but I am starting to think that may be a huge overkill for a planted tank. I've seen most of the fw lights still use SMD strip leds that give out amazing results. I haven't seen many deep tanks with these LEDs though and hence my series of questions:

The tank is going to be either 48"Lx24"Wx20"H (if I keep my current reef ready tank) or something around 48"x22"x22"H if I sell my current setup and make myself a new one. Therefore I am looking into 18-20" water column and I would like to suspend my lights at least 10" from the water column. 

My goals are a high-light CO2 injected tank that can grow light demanding plants. I am not sure yet if I achieve my goals, but I would rather start with a high-end light than have to upgrade later. The options I selected as are follows:

1. Getting two of these AI Hydras or one AI Hydra 52. I know these are expensive lights, but I can get them at a discount and I will have budget from selling my sw equipment. The problem is these are reef oriented lights and I don't even know if they can be tweaked to grow plants. I am also undecided if these would not be overkill for my tank
2. Current Satellite FW+ LED . I thought of getting two of these lights, but will they offer enough PAR all the way to the bottom of the tank. I like the fact that you can tweak the RGB channel to your liking, as well as an additional dimmer that you can purchase for these fixtures




3. Finnex fixtures- was thinking about two ray2 DS 7000K. Pros are great price and a lot of good reviews on these lights, but I don't like the fact these are not controllable and I don't know if they offer enough light for a deep tank
4. Buildmyled- I would opt for one Dutch Planted 6300K - XB Series and one 1000K, but at $325 for one 48" ficture they seem to be quite expensive for a FW tank and would come very close to Hydras at this point. On plus side they can be controlled with apex controller that I own (but so can AI Hydras)
5. The last option would be to stay with DIY leds and modify the light to my liking. Currently I have 36 XM-L diodes with green and cyan mixed in, 36x X-PE Royal Blue and a separate channel for 1W UV leds (I guess these are usless in FW planted tank).

Thanks for all your help and opinions.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

If you want high light in that tank I would rule out Finnex or Current. Just don't think you will get there without a farm of fixtures on top of your tank. Plus, by time you did make it you'd be maybe a tad short of a more expensive fixture that can do it with just one. JMO

If the Hydra come in 10000k that is all you need for a fw setup.


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## skanderson (Jul 25, 2010)

you could diy light that tank using 2 12 inch heatsinks with 2 30 watt bridgelux bxra emitters and 8 cree xml 7k, then if you want to be fancy put 4 red and 4 royal blue on as well. that should get you into the high light category. I would drive it with individual meanwell ldd drivers all hooked up to a decent dimmer. would probably run around 300 dollars I think.


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

jrman83 said:


> If you want high light in that tank I would rule out Finnex or Current. Just don't think you will get there without a farm of fixtures on top of your tank. Plus, by time you did make it you'd be maybe a tad short of a more expensive fixture that can do it with just one. JMO
> 
> If the Hydra come in 10000k that is all you need for a fw setup.


I was afraid both finnex and current might not be enough for high light planted tank. I need to as if Hydras can be set to 10000K.



skanderson said:


> you could diy light that tank using 2 12 inch heatsinks with 2 30 watt bridgelux bxra emitters and 8 cree xml 7k, then if you want to be fancy put 4 red and 4 royal blue on as well. that should get you into the high light category. I would drive it with individual meanwell ldd drivers all hooked up to a decent dimmer. would probably run around 300 dollars I think.


I already have royal blue and cool white then it may be an option after all. How many leds would you run for 48x24" footprint? I also have three of these http://www.rapidled.com/6-width-black-anodized/ 6"x20" heatsinks


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

I am steering towards DIY LED light after all. I realized it would be stupid (read expensive) not to use what I already have and spend another $600-$700 for a quality fixture. If I frankenstein my light I'll have around 30 cool white cree x-ml, 4 cyan phillips rebel, 4 green xp-g and 12 uv leds. Oh, I have some neutral white lying around too. From what I understand people are mixing cool white with neutral white in a ratio of 1:1, but at the same time cool white run at 5500-8000K, then shouldn't cool white be mixed with neutral white in a ratio of 3:1 or even 4:1?


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Anyone who built their DIY leds?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> I am steering towards DIY LED light after all. I realized it would be stupid (read expensive) not to use what I already have and spend another $600-$700 for a quality fixture. If I frankenstein my light I'll have around 30 cool white cree x-ml, 4 cyan phillips rebel, 4 green xp-g and 12 uv leds. Oh, I have some neutral white lying around too. From what I understand people are mixing cool white with neutral white in a ratio of 1:1, but at the same time cool white run at 5500-8000K, then shouldn't cool white be mixed with neutral white in a ratio of 3:1 or even 4:1?



Cool white seems to be a flexible term... 

Other than that you are on the right track.. What you are lacking in your mix is 660nm red LED's.. Skip "some" of the UV.. Presently I don't see any advantage to them but... 

example:
http://youtu.be/kHX1hosIgzE
http://youtu.be/lkq9rr8NQtc


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## Deano85 (Nov 14, 2011)

I'd recommend using dimmable drivers. Adjusting the color and par of the light is really slick. 

I also would forget the UV's.

You can look here for ideas, http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/how-to-builds/ .


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

I have 6 dimmable meanwell drivers capable driving 14 leds each. I was thinking about around 30-36 leds cool white on 3 of the meanwells and then have one for royal blue and one for rest of my colors. What do you think? How many leds of each color would you run on a tank that size


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> I have 6 dimmable meanwell drivers capable driving 14 leds each. I was thinking about around 30-36 leds cool white on 3 of the meanwells and then have one for royal blue and one for rest of my colors. What do you think? How many leds of each color would you run on a tank that size


all depends on how much light you need .. IF it was my tank I'd contemplate 84= 3w LEDS divided int x channels..then working my way down ... 
This is a 180cm light bank 3w multicolored.. dimmable in 2 channels..


http://youtu.be/lkq9rr8NQtc

http://youtu.be/kHX1hosIgzE

I like 3-4 channel designs myself.. 
1)Red 660nm 
2)bluish 440
3)neutral, which could be split to 2 channels cool white, warm white..
4) (opt) moonlight

Problem comes in how many of each per channel .Plant wise you want a lot of red.. vision wise it can be overwhelming..

ect..

http://www.dsuny.com.cn/En/Product_...serInfo_ID=727023&CorpProductImages_ID=931264

9 660nm red, 9 440nm blue rest white/warm white and cyan...


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> all depends on how much light you need .. IF it was my tank I'd contemplate 84= 3w LEDS divided int x channels..then working my way down ...
> This is a 180cm light bank 3w multicolored.. dimmable in 2 channels..
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for your help. I would like to have my light dimmable with apex controller, therefore I have four dimming channels as apex have four variable ports. I am planning to use four 6"x20" heatsinks that I have so I will have a 12"x40" panel that I will try to spread LEDs onto. I was thinking of doing:

36x Cree XM-L Cool white
13x Cree X-PE Royal Blue
8x 660nm red XP-G
rest on separate channel- cyan, orange, green

What do you think about that? Should I mix cool whites with neutral whites or rather spread 2 red leds without lenses on each heatsink instead?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> Thanks for your help. I would like to have my light dimmable with apex controller, therefore I have four dimming channels as apex have four variable ports. I am planning to use four 6"x20" heatsinks that I have so I will have a 12"x40" panel that I will try to spread LEDs onto. I was thinking of doing:
> 
> 36x Cree XM-L Cool white
> 13x Cree X-PE Royal Blue
> ...


I always like to group by "color palette".. 
So cyan goes w/ green 
Orange would go w/ red but if not electrically compatible I'd skip them..
As to spacing I'd keep this in mind..


> 495nm is Turquoise that should be used small amounts on a tank as it will quickly over power other colors if not mixed with 660nm Deep Red and 455nm Royal Blue. When mixed with the Deep Red and Royal Blue, all 3 colors will display a "White" light but still bring out fluorescent pigments found in corals. The Turquoise is going to bring out oranges and reds.
> This wavelength is almost a green color and is currently experimental. The idea behind this wavelength is to fill the missing gap needed to bring out certain colors like reds and oranges in a standard Neutral White + Royal Blue combo.


http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/turquoise-495nm/

Keep all whites w/ whites regardless of choices in color temp.. though I have added white w/ the blue channel to increase white count overall.
I can't picture a real need for orange..but heck why not..

I like to use 3500k "whites" to cover the low red /orange range..and those could be put anywhere.. 

As to spacing .. this rule of thumb is just fine.........


> For example, on a typical 75g aquarium, you have 864 square inches of surface area (18" x 48"). You might end up with 48 LEDs. That's 18 square inches per LED, which is fairly typical. If you had two heatsinks that were 12" wide by 18" long, you'd be able to "cover" most of the tank with heatsink area (if that makes sense). Then, you'd just space out 24 LEDs evenly on the surface of each heatsink. If you did 4 rows of 6 LEDs on each heatsink, you'd end up with 3" between rows, and 3" between columns (roughly, depending on how far in from the edge of the heatsink you started the LEDs.) This would be a very typical build, and result in a typical spread of LEDs.
> 
> However, that doesn't mean all builds will end up with 3" spacing!


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> Anyone who built their DIY leds?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=508049&highlight=

Start at post #10 :smile:


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Mark Allred said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=508049&highlight=
> 
> Start at post #10 :smile:


Thanks, that is exactly what I needed From what I see leds array for planted tank is different from reefs by a lot. Do you mind if I copy your array?


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

Feel free, Smog! Another forum user already has... (Getcusome).


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Mark Allred said:


> Feel free, Smog! Another forum user already has... (Getcusome).


For clarity, why violet over royal blue???
I do love your setup.. if you like fans.. 
And if I remember you have 3 "flavors" of white correct??


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

Hi Jeff,

The violets were the recommendatio of ASO.
I was curious also, and read somewhere the 420nm violet wavelength is ideal for supporting photosynthesis. 
My other kit from Aquastyleonline has Royal Blues, they are very nice.
Yes, I am running Cree XT-Es, 35 white 6500K, 14 white 4500K, and 7 warm white 3000K. Also running 7 660 nm reds, which is also ideal for plants.
Thanks, Jeff. And the fans are pretty quiet.  )


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Mark Allred said:


> Feel free, Smog! Another forum user already has... (Getcusome).


Thanks. I have a question- do you see a visual benefit of having cool white crees mixed with warm and neutral whites? If I Frankenstein my light I will end up with 31 cool whites and not a single warm or neutral. What's your ratio on'em? Also, how many royal blues did you use (cause I'm gonna have the whole 39 of'em?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Mark Allred said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> The violets were the recommendatio of ASO.
> I was curious also, and read somewhere the 420nm violet wavelength is ideal for supporting photosynthesis.


Close enough.. 









Usually chl. A peaks at 440nm...violet royal blue both close enough.......


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

One more question Mark- where did you get that box for drivers? I always mounted everything onto the light, but this time I want to avoid it as it makes the whole thing really heavy (well, I also made the case out of Corian, which made it weigh a ton). Here are a couple of pics of my latest build:









Also, if anyone is interested in dimming their DIy lights with Apex controller, here's a little write-up I did some time ago

http://www.reefs.com/blog/2012/12/1...-lights-with-neptune-systems-apex-controller/

Apex is an amazing controller and well worth the money IMO.


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> Thanks. I have a question- do you see a visual benefit of having cool white crees mixed with warm and neutral whites? If I Frankenstein my light I will end up with 31 cool whites and not a single warm or neutral. What's your ratio on'em? Also, how many royal blues did you use (cause I'm gonna have the whole 39 of'em?


Smoq,
Yes, I do. The light is a bit more "stark" looking using only 6500K. (IMO)
My ratio: 
35 white 6500K, 14 white 4500K, 7 warm white 3000K.
7 660 nm red, and 7 violet 420nm.
The violets give off much more light, than it looks like in this photo.







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I do run Royal Blues in my 29 gallon.
It utilizes 10 6500K, 2 warm white 3000K, and 2 Royal Blue.
The light in this tank is every bit as appealing as the 125.








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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> One more question Mark- where did you get that box for drivers? I always mounted everything onto the light, but this time I want to avoid it as it makes the whole thing really heavy (well, I also made the case out of Corian, which made it weigh a ton). Here are a couple of pics of my latest build:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


VERY nice looking! Great craftmanship on your light setup, Smoq!
What is the deal with the white center panel? :icon_conf
(never mind. I see the center overflow now) .
Ray from Aquastyle threw my project box in for free with my kit. His biggest one!
http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/Project-Box-26cmX13cmX5.5cm.html







[/URL][/IMG]
It is very nice! 6 SS flathead 4 mm machine screws, mated to brass inserts!
I laid 6 drivers, added a jumper and folded over adding my other 6 drivers.
I isolated the two rows from each other with a sheet of 1/16" EPDM rubber.


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Close enough..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the charts, Jeff! Possibly the same as I had seen.
Just checked out your album, I was impressed with this photo of your "Ozelot Sword"!
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/album.php?albumid=12577&pictureid=38841
I love these Echinodorus, have a few myself! But have never seen a plant with ALL new growth leaves like this. Or, is this not "Ozelot"?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Mark Allred said:


> Thanks for the charts, Jeff! Possibly the same as I had seen.
> Just checked out your album, I was impressed with this photo of your "Ozelot Sword"!
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/album.php?albumid=12577&pictureid=38841
> I love these Echinodorus, have a few myself! But have never seen a plant with ALL new growth leaves like this. Or, is this not "Ozelot"?


 Sword, Red Flame (Echinodorus Red Flame)
http://www.aquariumplants.com/Sword_Red_Flame_Echinodorus_Red_Flame_p/sw11.htm

Which for some reason just did a massive "melt"..New leaves are starting to emerge.. 
I've just started w/ pressurized CO2 and I suppose the water chem. became imbalanced.. or something.. I did really well when it was the "king" of the tank..not so well when the water wysteria kicked back into full growth mode..

The "compacta" heads I just cut off the tops of some plants that dropped all their lower leaves.. This early build has just 2- 10W 660nm chips so it is not "blended"... as you can see from the gravel. The thing on the right bottom is a "ammonia alert" that refuses to stay stuck on the tank..Nerites like to crawl on it..
just for fun 2 of the 3 (maybe) African dwarf frogs.. Used an LED flashlight to get this one..One of them just laid some eggs but I had no way of protecting them.. They became fish food apparently.. About the same time the sword melted.. hmmm....Oh and my water clouded up for a few days.. Didn't lose any fish though..


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

Jeff,
Awesome Sword! I see a mail order purchase in my future! Can't have too many red plants, and Angels love the Swords!
The Hygrophila corymbosa looks great too! Maybe I should try some of that!
You should start seeing some "explosive" growth with CO2 injection!
The leaves on my Bacopa monnieri grow 2 to 3 times larger with CO2.

How large are your dwarf frogs?
I had a guy all mad at me on one of the other forums, because he wanted to put a dozen in a 10 gallon tank, and I told how big they get.
I have personally seen them 2 1/2 inches! He wouldn't believe that, even after I posted a dozen links showing their adult size. 
He was going to do it anyway! (damn the facts! he heard they stay really little...)


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Mark Allred said:


> VERY nice looking! Great craftmanship on your light setup, Smoq!
> What is the deal with the white center panel? :icon_conf
> (never mind. I see the center overflow now) .
> Ray from Aquastyle threw my project box in for free with my kit. His biggest one!
> ...


Thanks, I'm glad you like it. The problem is Corian makes it weigh a ton, but it sure is really nice material. 
That project box may be too small for me, I have the meanwells 48-60D that take 110V, six of them to be exact. Each needs about 9x3" of space


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Mark Allred said:


> Jeff,
> 
> 
> How large are your dwarf frogs?
> ...


Body alone about 1 1/2.. over 2 1/2 from snout to end of leg.. That is the smaller of the 2(3).. The other one is slightly bigger..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> Thanks, I'm glad you like it. The problem is Corian makes it weigh a ton, but it sure is really nice material.
> That project box may be too small for me, I have the meanwells 48-60D that take 110V, six of them to be exact. Each needs about 9x3" of space



those dim using 1-10v dc input.. and you can get a more compact grouping by making them less watertight and removing the black wire jacket.. 
just an fyi


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> those dim using 1-10v dc input.. and you can get a more compact grouping by making them less watertight and removing the black wire jacket..
> just an fyi


Yes, these are 0-10v. My apex is capable of outputting 4 0-10V dimming signals. That's a good idea to take the black jacket, I might go this way. On the other hand I have a new metal electric breaker panel laying around at the jobsite so I might use that. Kinda bulky, but hey, it's free Can domebody reccomend a 8 or 10 prong connector and socket that I can use to connect the light to driver box?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> Yes, these are 0-10v. My apex is capable of outputting 4 0-10V dimming signals. That's a good idea to take the black jacket, I might go this way. On the other hand I have a new metal electric breaker panel laying around at the jobsite so I might use that. Kinda bulky, but hey, it's free Can domebody reccomend a 8 or 10 prong connector and socket that I can use to connect the light to driver box?


Many use CAT 5... AFAICT it is 23ga wire..
I'm having a hard time w/ this as well.. "Thermostat wire" was my orig use.. Unfortunately it is in "odd" configurations i.e 7 or 5...

I've contemplated using Molex motherboard type connectors since I found I ca n cut large ones down..carefully..


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> Many use CAT 5... AFAICT it is 23ga wire..
> I'm having a hard time w/ this as well.. "Thermostat wire" was my orig use.. Unfortunately it is in "odd" configurations i.e 7 or 5...
> 
> I've contemplated using Molex motherboard type connectors since I found I ca n cut large ones down..carefully..


I have the same exact problem. Cat5 is risky Imo, I usually use 16-18ga wire for LEd string hookup. I found din connectors online but they are weird too, having 5 prongs.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> I have the same exact problem. Cat5 is risky Imo, I usually use 16-18ga wire for LEd string hookup. I found din connectors online but they are weird too, having 5 prongs.


I'm contemplating high amp RCA low tech plugs... 
or again..Molex:








Certainly can handle the power
http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

Plenty of "auto wiring harness" types as well..


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## skanderson (Jul 25, 2010)

my diys use bridgelux arrays in 4k color at 80 cri. if I could find them I would use 20 or 30 watt 4k arrays in 90 cir, but 80 still looks good.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> I have the same exact problem. Cat5 is risky Imo, I usually use 16-18ga wire for LEd string hookup. I found din connectors online but they are weird too, having 5 prongs.


20ga x 4 ...at last no extra wire.. 
pre tinned
http://shop.stevesleds.com/24-Gauge-LED-Power-wire-24-Gauge-LED-wire.htm
http://shop.stevesleds.com/20-4-Gauge-Driver-Power-Cable-Wire20-4.htm


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

here you go..











> Manufactured with three 12 gauge and five 16 gauge copper wire between a male and a female end.


8 pin DIN plug...









22ga.. but in 1000ft and I really don't want to know the "audiophile" price.. ;0 THey use D sub connectors apparently:
http://www.libertycable.com/product...pose-22-AWG-8-conductor-plenum-shielded-cable
18ga 8... .35/ft in bulk....
http://www.discount-low-voltage.com/Cable/18-Gauge/1880AB8CMR

96/ft
2-16 6-18ga "rotator" wire..
321229073173


> 92 CENTS PER FT !!!
> SALE PRICE!!!
> HAM RADIO OUTLET SELLS THIS
> ROTOR CABLE $1.69 PER FT JSC 5972


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Ok so I looked for a perfect connector for the past two hours and found this

Amazon.com: Gino Waterproof Rubber Cover 16 Pin Electric Deck Connector AC 250V 7A: Electronics

What do you think? I need 14 pins to have everything in one cable


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

One more question Mark- you used 35 cool whites for a 125G tank, right? That's 6' x 18" wide? How wide is your fixture? I am gonna have either 22 or 24" front to back and I am still debating the number of leds. My options are

Channel 1 26x XP-G cool white
Channel 2 13 x XP-G Neutral White
Channel 3 13x X-PE Royal Blye
Channel 4 8 x Phillips 660nm Red

or Option 2

Channel 1 32x XP-G cool white and few xp-g green
Channel 2 13 x XP-G Neutral White
Channel 3 13x X-PE Royal Blye
Channel 4 8 x Phillips 660nm Red

What would you do?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> Ok so I looked for a perfect connector for the past two hours and found this
> 
> Amazon.com: Gino Waterproof Rubber Cover 16 Pin Electric Deck Connector AC 250V 7A: Electronics
> 
> What do you think? I need 14 pins to have everything in one cable



check Mouser......
http://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Ci...9j?P=1z0wxoo&gclid=CJmwm5TLtr0CFeZDMgodtHkALg

http://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Ci...ircular-Connector/_/N-av49j?P=1z0wxooZ1z0s0pw

Seems by the time you are done it is an awfully expensive "plug"............

Molex again..
http://www.molex.com/molex/products...ntroduction&parentKey=wire_to_wire_connectors

opps back to 24ga


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> One more question Mark- you used 35 cool whites for a 125G tank, right? That's 6' x 18" wide? How wide is your fixture? I am gonna have either 22 or 24" front to back and I am still debating the number of leds. My options are
> 
> Channel 1 26x XP-G cool white
> Channel 2 13 x XP-G Neutral White
> ...


Smoq,
My fixture footprint is about 8 3/4" wide by 58 1/4" long. Yes, tank footprint is 72" X 18".
I have my LEDs pretty evenly spaced at 3".
Lights are 4" above the water, and 21" from the substrate.

I like the ratio better in Option 1, but the extra lights are good in 2. 

I think the ratio in option 2 may look too blue/stark white.

The LEDs are pretty bright, I started growing BBA.
Dimmed the lights to 80%, and jacked up the CO2.
It is doing a lot better now!


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Mark Allred said:


> Smoq,
> My fixture footprint is about 8 3/4" wide by 58 1/4" long. Yes, tank footprint is 72" X 18".
> I have my LEDs pretty evenly spaced at 3".
> Lights are 4" above the water, and 21" from the substrate.
> ...


I am still a little surprised on the amount of leds though. I wouldn't do more for a reef tank and didn't know I would need that many for a planted tank. And you're saying you ran them at 80%? I thought I am gonna save money on my LEDs but it looks like I need to buy additional 13 neutral white leds and 8 red and will be left with a buncvh of unused royal blues. Oh well, I am still excited I am gonna have a new LED project


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> I am still a little surprised on the amount of leds though. I wouldn't do more for a reef tank and didn't know I would need that many for a planted tank. And you're saying you ran them at 80%? I thought I am gonna save money on my LEDs but it looks like I need to buy additional 13 neutral white leds and 8 red and will be left with a buncvh of unused royal blues. Oh well, I am still excited I am gonna have a new LED project


Hey, I am certainly no lighting expert here, I would solicit other opinions. 
The way you are setting your channels up will give you great color control!
I am looking forward to seeing the finished product.


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Mark Allred said:


> Hey, I am certainly no lighting expert here, I would solicit other opinions.
> The way you are setting your channels up will give you great color control!
> I am looking forward to seeing the finished product.


Thanks. And don't say that, you have a functioning FW LED light, you're an expert to me I am almost ready to order extra leds and start my build, the only thing I don't know is if I should order warm white leds too? They would have to be on the same string as neutral whites cause I don't have anymore dimming channels available


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> Thanks. And don't say that, you have a functioning FW LED light, you're an expert to me I am almost ready to order extra leds and start my build, the only thing I don't know is if I should order warm white leds too? They would have to be on the same string as neutral whites cause I don't have anymore dimming channels available


Thank you!:smile: I would. My channel 2 is comprised of 14 neutrals, and 7 warm whites.
My other 35 white 6500Ks are channel 1.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> Thanks. And don't say that, you have a functioning FW LED light, you're an expert to me I am almost ready to order extra leds and start my build, the only thing I don't know is if I should order warm white leds too? They would have to be on the same string as neutral whites cause I don't have anymore dimming channels available


Personally I like adding ww...adds intermediate red and a lower blue peak. The more red the better.. as long as you can't see it..
whatever that may mean.. 
One chart:









One info point:
http://www.oilgae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5086
Food for thought.


> So far, the best I've been able to come up with is that to cover all the spectrum for A & B, there should be a ratio of 2 reds to 1 blue to 1 warm white (planning to use high-power CREEs). Does this sound right? The Warm White hits the B and the reds/blues hit the A?



What I found humorous....


> The other issue I am wondering about it the unity of spread. The filters using this method and T5HO typically have the lamps (with reflectors) about 2-3" away from the screen upon which the algae is grown. It seems that no one has really been able to mimic successful growth using LEDs. My theory is that T5HO spreads the same light evenly (spectrum wise) over the whole length. LEDs are too focused to spread it evenly at close range (4 inches or less). Mix that in with the fact that you need multiple types of LEDs to get the proper spectral range for growing algae, and you end up with needing a fixture that must group 2:1:1 red:blue:WW at a distance far enough away to achieve a uniform spectral spread.


They have a hard time growing algae w/ LED's..........


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

Great information, Jeff! Interesting.:icon_smil


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Mark Allred said:


> Great information, Jeff! Interesting.:icon_smil


Great info, indeed. So back to drawing board, how's:

Channel 1 26x XP-G cool white
Channel 2 7 x XP-G Neutral White + 6x XP-G Warm White
Channel 3 13x X-PE Royal Blue
Channel 4 8 x Phillips 660nm Red


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> Great info, indeed. So back to drawing board, how's:
> 
> Channel 1 26x XP-G cool white
> Channel 2 7 x XP-G Neutral White + 6x XP-G Warm White
> ...


Why not throw in some "real" cyan in ch. 1.............. 

http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/
Use this chart.. Are the Philliip 660nm 3W Leds??

IF they are maybe a few 3w cyan in the red channel.. It will cut the red to a whitish color somewhat.. in theory yellowish sunrise color (RB/DEEPRED/CYAN = white (brg) )


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> Great info, indeed. So back to drawing board, how's:
> 
> Channel 1 26x XP-G cool white
> Channel 2 7 x XP-G Neutral White + 6x XP-G Warm White
> ...


Are you limited to 13 LEDs with your drivers? I ask, because earlier you mentioned "Channel 1 32x XP-G cool white and few xp-g green".
With your tank foot print of 48" X 24", I, personally, would up your LED count to 65ish. I like Jeff's suggestion of the Cyans. :smile:


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> Why not throw in some "real" cyan in ch. 1..............
> 
> http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/
> Use this chart.. Are the Philliip 660nm 3W Leds??
> ...


I can throw them into a red channel but would like to keep whites separate. You think cyan is a good idea for a planted tank? And yes, the Phillips leds are 3W capable of being driven at 1A max


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Mark Allred said:


> Are you limited to 13 LEDs with your drivers? I ask, because earlier you mentioned "Channel 1 32x XP-G cool white and few xp-g green".
> With your tank foot print of 48" X 24", I, personally, would up your LED count to 65ish. I like Jeff's suggestion of the Cyans. :smile:


I have 6 drivers each capable of driving a max of 13 leds. The big thing is that I have around 40 XP-G cool whites laying around and would have to buy additional neutral whites and warm whites. I want to limit my spending to 20 additional leds, if possible. 
About the tank, if I sell my current setup, I would either make a 48x24" tank or 48x20. I don't know if I necessary need the additional 4 inches for a planted tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> You think cyan is a good idea for a planted tank?


They have become my most recent obsession.. 
Their spectrum can help fill a gap" in the light continuum..
The white "gap"
see the "dip" @ 500nm:










See the cyan spectrum (in general)










Reference:









Pigment absorption spectrum:









It is not "necessary" probably but it is a good "filler" for a full spectrum effect..
Between 475-525nm you are punching the secondary pigments pretty hard..and adding more "green" to blend w/ the rb and deep red..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

With cyan (8-3w phillips)









no cyan










ODDLY enough.. eliminating all the royal blue doesn''t change it as much (PAR wise) if you add the cyan..










To be more annoying.. 
Cyan plus 8 1w cree "blue" no royal blue.........


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> I have 6 drivers each capable of driving a max of 13 leds. The big thing is that *I have around 40 XP-G cool whites laying around* and would have to buy additional neutral whites and warm whites. I want to limit my spending to 20 additional leds, if possible.
> About the tank, if I sell my current setup, I would either make a 48x24" tank or 48x20. I don't know if I necessary need the additional 4 inches for a planted tank.


It wouldn't hurt to add some more cool whites...........and some cyans! :icon_lol:


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm sorry................. 


My current unfinished one, all estimates because ,except for the cyan (did I mention the trickery that the Chinese are doing ganging a blue and green to make a "fake" cyan??) ........... 
they are all cheap fleabay LED's.... so one can assume a bit of variation from spec.. 
This is for a 40 so the LED count is lower..


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> I'm sorry.................
> 
> 
> My current unfinished one, all estimates because ,except for the cyan (did I mention the trickery that the Chinese are doing ganging a blue and green to make a "fake" cyan??) ...........
> ...


Interesting, thanks for the info. My light will consist of 4 heatsinks from RapidLED like this http://www.rapidled.com/drilled-tapped-6-x-20-black-anodized-aluminum-heat-sink/ Each has a space for 36 LEDs so I thought of stuffing 2 Deep Red for each heatsink, giving me a total of 8. Therefore, I have 5 leds left for this string, would one cyan for every square foot without lens be enough you think? I need to draw this so you guys can see how it's gonna look. 
BTW, I resolved my connector dillemma. Check this out:



16 pins, ideal to have everything contained into one cable.


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Drawing phase complete. Here's my prototype for you to comment:



The channels are:

1. 40x XP-G Cool White
2. 8x xp-g neutral white+ 4x xp-g warm white
3. 12x x-pe royal blue
4. 8x philips deep red + 4 x philips cyan 

Please share your thoughts


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

Smoq,
I like it!


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

Mark Allred said:


> Smoq,
> I like it!


Thanks. I forgot to mention each heatsink is 6"x20" so the light will be 12x40". Each heatsink has 32 pre-drilled and tapped holes for mounting leds so the black dots that you see in a pic are unused space. There is 1-3/4" space in between leds in the longer dimension and 2-1/4" in between each of the four rows. I was thinking not to use any lens on cyan red and maybe royal blue. What do you think about that idea?


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

smoq said:


> Thanks. I forgot to mention each heatsink is 6"x20" so the light will be 12x40". Each heatsink has 32 pre-drilled and tapped holes for mounting leds so the black dots that you see in a pic are unused space. There is 1-3/4" space in between leds in the longer dimension and 2-1/4" in between each of the four rows. I was thinking not to use any lens on cyan red and maybe royal blue. What do you think about that idea?


Definitely do not use lenses on your cyan red and royal blue.
If tank ends are dark, you can remove lenses on some of the whites.


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

smh!! now i need cyans!!! grrrrr curse you jeff! how many would u suggest?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Getcusome said:


> smh!! now i need cyans!!! grrrrr curse you jeff! how many would u suggest?


I'm running 4:4:4:19 R:B:Cyan:whites

each on a separate dimmer (Well actually the blue channel is 4/5 b/w)

I suppose I could elaborate on that a bit: any amount as long as they are equal.. (660=royal blue=cyan)
so that combined thre spectrum looks like this:











> In the search for filling in the 'missing' spectrums i have come across these from http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/ocean-coral-white.
> They each have 1x Deep Red 660nm, 1 x Turquoise 495nm 1 x Cool blue 470nm, The deep red/turquise mix, gives a whiteish light, The recommended number is 4-6 over an area of 24'x 24' (2ft x 2ft)


http://masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=239906&start=150
so for me it is 4 "units" over 4.5sq ft..










NOT MINE just an example of the 3 colors..


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## smoq (Feb 19, 2008)

I followed your advice and included 4 cyan LEDs to the build. I'm gonna make a write up once I finish, here's shot from yesterday soldering session:


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Ok Jeff this is what I have right now, 
CH1 : 36 white 6500K (3 LDD-1000H)
CH2 : 12 white 4500K (1 LDD-1000H)
CH3 : 6 red 6 3000K (1 LDD-600H)
CH4 : 12 violet420nm (1 LDD-600H)
Ch5 : cooling fans
Ch6 : 3 led moonlights
So would recommend just adding them in or replacing some existing LEDs?


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Layout looks like so......







[/URL][/IMG]


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Getcusome said:


> Ok Jeff this is what I have right now,
> CH1 : 36 white 6500K (3 LDD-1000H)
> CH2 : 12 white 4500K (1 LDD-1000H)
> CH3 : 6 red 6 3000K (1 LDD-600H)
> ...


you do have a lot of violet............  I could see a swap out for cyans in that channel.. like every other one.. 6:6:6 R:V;C 
Never argue w/ success.. if your tank is fine.. well...

Keep in mind this is somewhat personal opinion.. I gave you why I like them.. 

We can go from using every color in the deck to one....white.. 

It is part of the fun swapping them out though..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

smoq said:


> I followed your advice and included 4 cyan LEDs to the build. I'm gonna make a write up once I finish, here's shot from yesterday soldering session:


The best part...........


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Ordering today! Mooahahhaah. Thanks

Order placed!! 2-3 days and I'll let u know how I like it! I built a small setup for my 5 gallon reef and added one cyan so I'm kinda familiar with their visual appeal.


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Ok Jeff!!!!! Been way to long but FINALLY!!!........







[/URL][/IMG]
Also did a little grooming and raised the light up! Gonna build a facia to cover the light bleed but with the optics it's not to bad!







[/URL][/IMG]
I like the cyan, I think they gave me a whiter look from all the violets before! Thanks for the advice! Here is a before photo!! This was taken with the lights at about 6" off the water, hence all the shadowing.







[/URL][/IMG]


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Pop's the green doesn't it.. congrats.. 
Looks really nice .. to me....


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## MeCasa (Apr 22, 2014)

Ya'll need to stop these threads, you're making us mortals feel bad

Very nice ;-)


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

2 months.. I spared you the old yeller one.. .. Puts my tank to shame..


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Woooow thanks Jeff! I guess I'm doing ok with my tank...I sometimes wonder! Seeing those two side by side I'm somewhat impressed. Don't really get to see your progress till a helpful member like yourself does what you just did for me! Thanks for all the advice and help!!


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeff got any photos of your tank or a thread I could check out?


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

and the yeller one would just show progress. No shame in my learning game!


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## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> I'm running 4:4:4:19 R:B:Cyan:whites
> 
> each on a separate dimmer (Well actually the blue channel is 4/5 b/w)
> 
> ...


I was wondering where u got ya heatsink from?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

newbieplanter said:


> I was wondering where u got ya heatsink from?


Err.. "Not mine"... Looks like a "makers heatsink..

http://www.makersled.com/


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Getcusome said:


> jeff got any photos of your tank or a thread I could check out?



Side view, just boosted the "fill light" in post processing the dig. neg..
I'm currently in the process of doing a "shoot" as I have decreased my height of the LED's from the tank, and boosted the CO2 a bit.. also want to do one before doing a culling and cleaning.. but this older one will do for now.. I do have some here on new and older views w/ different lights.. see LED build in my Album..










I make things work.. I don't make them pretty.......... 

same tank over 1 year ago.. Lost all my foxtail.. and recently the sword (right) melted.. but is recovering .. slowly.. I think when I started the CO2 my bacteria 'crashed" throwing the water parameters way off..causing 1)bacterial bloom and 2)sword to melt..
Everything else survived.. The foxtail (back left).. well that briefly recovered from an algae attack.. only to just not quite survive..

Anyways same tank, different lights a year ago..


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