# 600 Gallons of Paradise



## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Planted600 said:


> Hello everyone! I new here but wanted to find a good place to start my tank journal where I could get some words of advice and hopefully a compliment of two along the way.
> 
> Let's get started.
> 
> ...




Picked up an ATI sunpower for the light. Just need to switch out the bulbs for something more "freshwater"


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Do you have rebarb running up through the concrete blocks so they don't fall over for what-ever reason?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

I do not, a buddy set up a stand identical to this one and glued them the first time, second time just stacked them. They aren't going anywhere


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## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

good lord that is a hell of a beast. I cant freaking wait. what fish are you planning?? theme??


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

Yeah there's no way those blocks are going anywhere with a 5000lb tank pushing down on them


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Thanks!

Planning to do some nice big schools. Small fish in big tank= happy life


I'm thinking rainbows, Congo tetras, loaches, Cory's, various tetra schools, barbs, who knows!!!


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

Watching this progress should be very interesting, and fun!


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

lol @ how many fish you could fit in there... Having a bunch of large schools would be awesome.


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## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

I vote for at least one group of larger cichlids


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

I don't think you'll see too may tanks four feet front to back. I'd need a snorkel to work in there, lol!

Excellent idea with the steel I-beams!

It's hard to tell from the picture, but is there room between the tank and the window behind it? I guess what I'm leading up to is the question of how you plan to get past the middle of the tank if there's no access from the back? Fwiw, I think you'd appreciate that gorgeous tank even more if it had a 360 view.


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## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

I agree, and directly in front of a window might not be a good idea either.


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## Whiskey (Feb 15, 2005)

Wow!!!!

What kind of fish are you planning? I see a tank like this and can't help but think "Discus".
Are you planning for ultra high tech? Or are you going to go with a slower growing easier maintenance aquascape?

Whiskey


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## shawnwaldon (Dec 5, 2013)

Wow I am guessing you had to build your house around that monster lol. I don't think the window will be that big of a problem as long as the tank isn't getting direct sunlight. I have had several aquariums in front of windows with out any issues. If it does get direct sunlight then I would think putting a background in the aquarium would fix the issue for the most part. One question though, is there some type of pad between the aquarium and the plywood? I can't tell in the pics.


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## Ashok (Dec 11, 2006)

That's an enormous tank! Can't wait to see it filled in, should be spectacular.

That support does look kinda dangerous. While the bricks will not move vertically, horizontal forces will probably not be resisted very well. 

If it were me I would get professional advice on that stand. Maybe check with your LFS and ask them if they know of any pros who would be able to check it out.

The floor might also need additional support.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

shawnwaldon said:


> Wow I am guessing you had to build your house around that monster lol. I don't think the window will be that big of a problem as long as the tank isn't getting direct sunlight. I have had several aquariums in front of windows with out any issues. If it does get direct sunlight then I would think putting a background in the aquarium would fix the issue for the most part. One question though, is there some type of pad between the aquarium and the plywood? I can't tell in the pics.



I am getting ready to install some blinds on the window, and also the back of the tank will be painted black.

I have a piece of 1/2" foam under the tank.

Thanks for your interest!

Alex


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

Just like everyone else I CANT WAIT TO SEE THIS THING PLANTED. Be ready for a lot of posts because big tanks attract a lot of attention here.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Bushkill said:


> I don't think you'll see too may tanks four feet front to back. I'd need a snorkel to work in there, lol!
> 
> Excellent idea with the steel I-beams!
> 
> It's hard to tell from the picture, but is there room between the tank and the window behind it? I guess what I'm leading up to is the question of how you plan to get past the middle of the tank if there's no access from the back? Fwiw, I think you'd appreciate that gorgeous tank even more if it had a 360 view.



I have around 14 inches behind the tank to work. I definitely made sure there was some room!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Ashok said:


> That's an enormous tank! Can't wait to see it filled in, should be spectacular.
> 
> That support does look kinda dangerous. While the bricks will not move vertically, horizontal forces will probably not be resisted very well.
> 
> ...



The house is on a concrete slab luckily, and the stand is a tried and true design, in fact this tanks sister tank was set up for 10 years with same stand without a glitch.

Oh, and I had a LFS owner come out, he thought the stand was awesome, no worries at all.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

klibs said:


> lol @ how many fish you could fit in there... Having a bunch of large schools would be awesome.


Which is why I'm going fresh this time instead of salt!


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## shrimpletess (Jun 1, 2014)

Oh, I already love it....


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

Personally, I don't like salt very much unless it's a VERY big tank. Like say, 3000 gallon.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Whiskey said:


> Wow!!!!
> 
> What kind of fish are you planning? I see a tank like this and can't help but think "Discus".
> Are you planning for ultra high tech? Or are you going to go with a slower growing easier maintenance aquascape?
> ...


Hahaha, well I'm going high tech-low-tech. No c02 or ferts for now, but high tech in the sense that I'll be using an apex controller to monitor my temp, ph, energy draw, lights, pumps, feeders and powerheads. 

I am going to do a t5 led combo, I've got some
Kessil LEDs coming in the mail to give me that
Shimmer!!!!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

150 gallon sump under tank,

Will try to get around 2-3 times turnover so 1500 gph after head loss.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

Going low tech it mite take a long time for it to fill in. You might want to consider high tech. I think you will eventually get sucked into high tech.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

180g said:


> Going low tech it mite take a long time for it to fill in. You might want to consider high tech. I think you will eventually get sucked into high tech.


That may end up being the case. But I have been a reef guy, and am new to planted tanks. I know how this stuff works in general, but I'm going to need some help turning it into a high tech planted tank.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

I've got 7 pieces of manzanita waiting at home, I will post pics of the wood tomorrow. It may take awhile before they sink!


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

This will be you in 6 months.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

Yea, I still have a lot if learning to do to. I can already imagine this thing with 7 big pieces of manzanita in it!


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## greaser84 (Feb 2, 2014)

That's pretty dare sweet! What part of NC do you live in? I may have to see this in person!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

greaser84 said:


> That's pretty dare sweet! What part of NC do you live in? I may have to see this in person!


Charlotte!


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## greaser84 (Feb 2, 2014)

Planted600 said:


> Charlotte!


Dang I'm in wilmington


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

AGUILAR3 said:


> This will be you in 6 months.


I can only wish


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## aja31 (May 25, 2013)

This is going to be amazing. I love that you want small fish in large schools. That will be a lot of fish though. Might want to look into breeding them yourself lol.


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## jmsaltfish797 (Oct 27, 2012)

subscribed. i have to admit, im pretty jealous of your tank. i wish i had something like that to play with. maybe someday in the future...


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

I thought I'd seen the craziest big tank when a buddy of mine recently bought a 335g, but this is the mother of all planted tanks. What are your plans for water changes, ferts, plants, co2?


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## Aquascape Depot (Feb 27, 2014)

Planted600 said:


> Hello everyone! I new here but wanted to find a good place to start my tank journal where I could get some words of advice and hopefully a compliment of two along the way.
> 
> Let's get started.
> 
> ...


I didn't know Mr. Amano lived in NC :icon_lol:. Very awesome tank and setup. That is going to be utopia for the future fish :fish:


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

:subscribed:


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## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

holy crap if you are in charlotte you have to go see eric lacroix at Carolina discus and get a couple (6 or so) discus for your centerpieces of this tank!!!


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## tclancy (Jan 29, 2014)

Whoa!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

jmf3460 said:


> holy crap if you are in charlotte you have to go see eric lacroix at Carolina discus and get a couple (6 or so) discus for your centerpieces of this tank!!!


Oooooh I will have to look into this


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Aquascape Depot said:


> I didn't know Mr. Amano lived in NC :icon_lol:. Very awesome tank and setup. That is going to be utopia for the future fish :fish:


Appreciate it! Should be a fun ride.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

exv152 said:


> I thought I'd seen the craziest big tank when a buddy of mine recently bought a 335g, but this is the mother of all planted tanks. What are your plans for water changes, ferts, plants, co2?


I will prolly do around a 50 gallon change a week.
Not sure about ferts, plants, or co2 at this point... That is what you guys are for!


Filtration will be a diy wet dry inside sump for biological, filter socks for mechanical, and carbon only when needed through a nextreef media reactor. I'll use scrubbies, and eheim pro bio media for biological surface area. I've got some ideas


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

jmsaltfish797 said:


> subscribed. i have to admit, im pretty jealous of your tank. i wish i had something like that to play with. maybe someday in the future...


Anything is possible buddy, just be patient and the time will come... and you will enjoy it when it does.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

hey I live in savannah ga, how far away is charlotte? :biggrin:


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Going to pick up my manzanita!

Will post pics in an hour or two!


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I CANT WAIT!!!!


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## tithra (Dec 1, 2012)

wow wow wow! dying with jealousy over here lol. Can't wait to watch this develop.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

How about a sneak peek!

Waiting for the manzanita to get water logged, smaller than they looked online, but very pretty pieces.



Shimmer!!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Awesome! Check out some of Tom Barrs (plantbrain) threads, search for "behemoth". :biggrin:

I would not recommend high tech - weekly pruning with goggles and snorkel gets old quickly... Plus, I dunno about your financials, but over here the kWh isn't cheap, and over a month it can add up. Plus, high light = heat, air condition or chiller galore.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Wasserpest said:


> Awesome! Check out some of Tom Barrs (plantbrain) threads, search for "behemoth". :biggrin:
> 
> I would not recommend high tech - weekly pruning with goggles and snorkel gets old quickly... Plus, I dunno about your financials, but over here the kWh isn't cheap, and over a month it can add up. Plus, high light = heat, air condition or chiller galore.


Exactly what I was thinking.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Awesome thread! I think it would be neat if you got a huge school (in the hundreds even) of your favorite small schooling fish. If you have soft water chocolate gouramis, cardinal tetras, and green neon tetras are all good options. If your water is on the harder side, look into rainbowfish - red neon paskai rainbows are a favorite of mine (though they are pricey). The way I see it small fish make a big tank look absolutely huge.

You could also get a good population of invertebrates going. California blackworms are sold at most LFS and live in the sand, and you could probably buy red cherry shrimp in bulk. Copepods and planaria should show up on their own eventually. Depending on your stocking levels the tank could maybe even be self-sustaining food-wise.

As for the low tech/high tech issue, I suggest something in between. With a tank of that size, you'd need to buy huge quantities of plants to have a lush low tech setup (or wait years). Yet with a full-blown high tech setup maintenance time would be a nightmare. It would probably be best to run low to medium levels of CO2, have medium light levels, a good nutritious substrate, and then dose as needed.


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## jeffpersonn (Feb 9, 2014)

I'd throw a big shoal of neon rainbows in there ! Their small and shimmery when turning their bodies !!


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

As a freshwater tank, plants are a must. Lowlight seems to be a good option for this sized tank, its up to you. But whatever happens just dont get amazon sword like plants. I personally find them ugly and have never seen them being used in scapes properly. Its very hard to pull off and make it look good. They shadow all other surrounding plants which just kills the vibe. 

This is just my thought, lets see how it goes for you.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Awesome thread! I think it would be neat if you got a huge school (in the hundreds even) of your favorite small schooling fish. If you have soft water chocolate gouramis, cardinal tetras, and green neon tetras are all good options. If your water is on the harder side, look into rainbowfish - red neon paskai rainbows are a favorite of mine (though they are pricey). The way I see it small fish make a big tank look absolutely huge.
> 
> You could also get a good population of invertebrates going. California blackworms are sold at most LFS and live in the sand, and you could probably buy red cherry shrimp in bulk. Copepods and planaria should show up on their own eventually. Depending on your stocking levels the tank could maybe even be self-sustaining food-wise.
> 
> As for the low tech/high tech issue, I suggest something in between. With a tank of that size, you'd need to buy huge quantities of plants to have a lush low tech setup (or wait years). Yet with a full-blown high tech setup maintenance time would be a nightmare. It would probably be best to run low to medium levels of CO2, have medium light levels, a good nutritious substrate, and then dose as needed.


Sounds great. I agree about having at least one huge school. I would like to hear more about freshwater inverts and the black worms living in the sand. Are you saying they will live and survive in the tank under the sand, and sand sifters or bottom feeders will eat them when they get the chance?
I'm going to start low tech with Anubias and ferns, and will ramp up and add co2 with time. I have around 900 watts of quality light capable, but only running around 300 right now.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

samee said:


> As a freshwater tank, plants are a must. Lowlight seems to be a good option for this sized tank, its up to you. But whatever happens just dont get amazon sword like plants. I personally find them ugly and have never seen them being used in scapes properly. Its very hard to pull off and make it look good. They shadow all other surrounding plants which just kills the vibe.
> 
> This is just my thought, lets see how it goes for you.


No amazon swords it is!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

jeffpersonn said:


> I'd throw a big shoal of neon rainbows in there ! Their small and shimmery when turning their bodies !!


Oh yeah! Those guys are already on the list? Maybe 15-20 of em..


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Awesome thread! I think it would be neat if you got a huge school (in the hundreds even) of your favorite small schooling fish. If you have soft water chocolate gouramis, cardinal tetras, and green neon tetras are all good options. If your water is on the harder side, look into rainbowfish - red neon paskai rainbows are a favorite of mine (though they are pricey). The way I see it small fish make a big tank look absolutely huge.
> 
> You could also get a good population of invertebrates going. California blackworms are sold at most LFS and live in the sand, and you could probably buy red cherry shrimp in bulk. Copepods and planaria should show up on their own eventually. Depending on your stocking levels the tank could maybe even be self-sustaining food-wise.
> 
> As for the low tech/high tech issue, I suggest something in between. With a tank of that size, you'd need to buy huge quantities of plants to have a lush low tech setup (or wait years). Yet with a full-blown high tech setup maintenance time would be a nightmare. It would probably be best to run low to medium levels of CO2, have medium light levels, a good nutritious substrate, and then dose as needed.



Also my water is around 7.8 ph right now, I used tap with prime to fill it up. However I have an RO unit and if I want to soften the water a bit, I can do water changes with RO water.

How does ph and hardness/softness correlate?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Need to get my water a little warmer, and drop ph a little with some RO water I think.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Stocking ideas:

Some combo of the following, I like these fish...

Bleeding heart tetras
Rosy barbs
Denisons barbs
Clown loaches
Blue botias
Fancy plecos
Black neon tetras
Neon rainbows
Bosemani rainbows
Turquoise rainbows
Red rainbows
Congo tetras
Red/blue tetras
Long fin red minor tetras
Rummynose tetra
Bloodfin tetra
Elephant nose fish
Killifish
Couple schools of Cory cats
Synodontis if any are small enough and safe with plants
20-30 glass catfish
Cherry barbs
Gold barbs
Discus..???


Can I do dwarf cichlids
Any other cichlids


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## thatgmc (Jul 4, 2010)

so jell bro


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Those bricks give me jitters, but then I live in a seismic zone.
I would not mind planting that tank though.

v3


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## Mides (Sep 15, 2013)

Subbed. This is epic!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

OVT said:


> Those bricks give me jitters, but then I live in a seismic zone.
> I would not mind planting that tank though.
> 
> v3


Haha, thankfully no worries here in that regard.


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## Lab_Man (Dec 7, 2012)

Like others have stated, I am wary of loosely stacked bricks. It is the lateral force (sideways) that I am concerned about. Six hundred gallons of water is 2.5 tons of water.

This could be an awesome tank. You have the volume that most people only dream of.

I personally love the Bleeding Heart Tetras. I have a school of 6 of them in my 55 gallon tank.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I think Amazon Swords look great in a tank this size, with those big leaves swaying in the current...


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> I would like to hear more about freshwater inverts and the black worms living in the sand. Are you saying they will live and survive in the tank under the sand, and sand sifters or bottom feeders will eat them when they get the chance?
> I'm going to start low tech with Anubias and ferns, and will ramp up and add co2 with time. I have around 900 watts of quality light capable, but only running around 300 right now.


Blackworms burrow in the sand, sticking out their heads if there is food to be had. They eat detritus and dead stuff - whenever I have a shrimp die in my 120 the body is gone in under 3 hours thanks to the blackworms. Sinking fish food will be taken as well. If you get a big enough population going before you add fish, they can act as a food source for all your fish (except herbivorous ones), with enough surviving to reproduce.



Planted600 said:


> How does ph and hardness/softness correlate?


Generally high pH means hard water and low pH means soft water (though this is not always true as other factors like tannins can influence pH). I'd see what your tap water's gH is first (a municipal water report should have this info) and see if that correlates with what you want to keep. If it's too high, then using RO water is always a good option - it gives you a lot of control over your water parameters. Also if your water is really hard (in the mid-teens GH) it's probably best to soften it at least somewhat or you will have a terrible time with algae.


I'd plan your general stocking around the few species you really really want to keep. For example if you really want to have discus in there, then you'd need fish that could tolerate temperatures in the low 80s and enjoy the soft water that discus require, such as rummynose or cardinal tetras. Certain other cichlids would go well with discus, such as altum angels (or regular angels if you introduce them carefully), festivums, Geophagus sp., and dwarf cichlids like Apistogramma or Mikrogeophagus. Also if you do decide on neons I recommend cardinals/green neons as an alternative - regular neons these days aren't very hardy for the most part (at least in my experience).

If you end up going with the African fish stocking theme (with the congos and such) kribensis (Pelvicachromis sp.) and Nanochromis sp. could be good dwarf cichlid options.

Electric blue jack dempseys are another possible cichlid option. From what I hear they're more docile than the regular Jack Dempseys.

Killifish is pretty generic of a term. I assume you're not interested in the annual species (Nothobranchius sp.). If you're after a larger killifish Fundulopanchax sp. are a good option, while Aphyosemion sp. are good smaller killis (and are quite prolific too).

Also keep in mind if you get clown loaches they'll probably end up uprooting a lot of plants when they're big.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

This is pretty neat. Boy would I love to stock this.....

Isn't it sad I'd literally make it a shrimp farm? 

I'd do a huge "tree root" tank with Manzy breaking the water surface, suspended from the the side. 

You could literally do tens of thousands of shrimp in there. 

Give them vertical play space with branches and they'd be everywhere. 

But not everybody is like me. You might want to look at some of the lesser common fish that will breed well for you so you never have to worry about stocking. 

If you keep the fish route, keep things uniform per water level, IE, only chocolate gourami in the top/mid, only corydoras in the bottom. Just examples though.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Lab_Man said:


> Like others have stated, I am wary of loosely stacked bricks. It is the lateral force (sideways) that I am concerned about. Six hundred gallons of water is 2.5 tons of water.
> 
> This could be an awesome tank. You have the volume that most people only dream of.
> 
> I personally love the Bleeding Heart Tetras. I have a school of 6 of them in my 55 gallon tank.


I did it this way because a buddy has the same tank set up same way for 10 years. Not sure how much lateral force I'll deal with


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> This is pretty neat. Boy would I love to stock this.....
> 
> Isn't it sad I'd literally make it a shrimp farm?
> 
> ...


Hehe, I can picture thousands of shrimp jumping around.

What groups of fish would you put in this tank if it were yours, and how would you plant it to keep it relatively low maintenance and hardy?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Blackworms burrow in the sand, sticking out their heads if there is food to be had. They eat detritus and dead stuff - whenever I have a shrimp die in my 120 the body is gone in under 3 hours thanks to the blackworms. Sinking fish food will be taken as well. If you get a big enough population going before you add fish, they can act as a food source for all your fish (except herbivorous ones), with enough surviving to reproduce.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How about electric blue rams?

Love blue jack dempseys, would they not eat small tetras?


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## Siddhartha Saive (Nov 21, 2013)

Awesome tank [emoji4]
I have a planted 600 gallon with a sump myself [emoji6]
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=486449


Your woods look amazing and the lights are great. 

One thing that worries me is the stand. The water and acrylic would weigh more than 3 tons. I feel you need supports in the center too. There will be a lot of shear stress at the middle of the tank, because the supports are nearly 8 feet apart. It's better to be safe than sorry. See if you can add supports along the back atleast. It might not be possible to make any changes unless you empty the tank though.

I suggest you go as low tech as possible unless you have the time, interest and money. 
In my tank I do water change and maintenance only once a month. The only work otherwise is feeding thrice a day, topping off when necessary and just sitting in front of the tank and enjoying it.
I do add micro and macro dyi ferts once a week or so if I remember to .. About 1/5th EI dosage.

Adding CO2 can make your plants grow 10x faster.. which might be a nuisance. Imagine bending over the edge of the tank and working for hours to prune the plants. 
Every tech you add to the tank is a possible thing that can go wrong and one more thing to worry about.

You have many options for the choice of plants even if you decide to go low tech. 
Another advice.. Be conservative with your lights. Less light is always better. More light than what you need will end you up with an algae farm. You can monitor your tank for a few weeks and adjust gradually.
Buy your plants in bulk and plant heavily to outcompete algae.

Do a LOT OF RESEARCH before you decide on any plants or fish. It's a PITA to catch a fish in a tank this big. The fish should be compatible with any small fish you have and the plants. 

I have schools of cardinal tetra, discus, elephant noses, pearl gourami, clown loach and many others. 
If you want plant compatible cichlids, you can keep rams, rainbow cichlids or Elliotti cichlids other than Discus and Angel fish. If you don't plan to have many plants in the substrate, you can keep many geophagus species.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Electric blue rams are good community fish and would be fine with other high temperature Amazonian fish like discus and rummynoses and cardinals.

As for the blue jack dempseys it depends on the individual fish. I have seen a pair kept with a large school of cardinal tetras before, but keep in mind that large cichlids tend to vary in temperament from individual to individual. If you start of with a relatively young fish introduced to a tank with many full-grown tetras and keep everyone well-fed, that will probably help your chances of peaceful cohabitation.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

I'm also going to try EBJD in my 180 with tetras. I'm fine if I lose a few as long as he doesn't wipe out the hole school. So if you want to see how it works out you can look at my journal but it might be a week or two before I can be able to stock fish. Good luck!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your advice!


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> Hehe, I can picture thousands of shrimp jumping around.
> 
> What groups of fish would you put in this tank if it were yours, and how would you plant it to keep it relatively low maintenance and hardy?


That's a fantastic question. I have to remember this is six hundred gallons. 

A huge number. You don't A want it to look like a zoo of dots, nor do you want it to look empty. 

I'd start from the ground up, my friend. 

Start with a base of 250 cherry shrimp, and from there, I'd stock 100 otocinculus in hopes of getting them to breed. 200 Ramshorns as well for good measure. 

So with the bottom taken care of, you've got mid and top to consider. 

Up next is medium, and I'd start with a large shoal of 40-60 glass catfish to follow the river esque theme we are attempting. 

To complement the peaceful temperament, subdued color and river scape style, I'd also suggest maybe 20 chocolate gourami.

Finally to top it off and really punch though the river scape, about 60 marble hatchet fish. 

Let me know what you think about that.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

MABJ said:


> Start with a base of 250 cherry shrimp, and from there, I'd stock 100 otocinculus in hopes of getting them to breed. 200 Ramshorns as well for good measure.
> 
> Up next is medium, and I'd start with a large shoal of 40-60 glass catfish to follow the river esque theme we are attempting.
> 
> ...


Only 250? He could put 1,000 in there and still not see many! The oto idea is a good one. If you have a lot of cash to burn zebra otos would be an excellent choice. They're larger (around 2.5 inches) and more visible, and are just really cool fish. If you could breed them then all the better.

Given that it's such a large tank there could be more bottom dwelling fish. If you want to have open sandy areas, consider a school of cories (C. sterbai are pretty awesome). If not, dwarf cichlids are another good bottom dwelling option. 

If you do end up keeping chocolate gouramis, keep in mind they're very timid and docile fish (at least when initially introduced), and are slow and deliberate feeders. Any fast schoolers such as the glass cats or marbled hatchets could outcompete them for food (though with the hatchets this could be addressed by feeding sinking foods, which the hatchets are unable to eat). They are really stunning though, and have a lot of presence once they're comfortable in your tank. They have a graceful feel to them that few other fish can match.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

My recommendation for a scape comes from the master himself. Here's a video of Amano setting up the Sumida aquariums. My favorite layout is a relatively smaller tank. It looks to have similar dimensions, or maybe I should say shape, as yours. Dominated by wood and ferns there's a FTS at around 10:13 and briefer glimpses earlier in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1wkuTYjYdU#t=613


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

Now you told me Amano had has a youtube acount I'm going to have to watch all of his videos!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> That's a fantastic question. I have to remember this is six hundred gallons.
> 
> A huge number. You don't A want it to look like a zoo of dots, nor do you want it to look empty.
> 
> ...


I like your style!


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

best of luck.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

What about substrate? Right now I just put pfs in there since I need hundreds of pounds. Is there a way to enrich the sand? Most of my plants will be attached to wood or floating if I have to redo the substrate


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

PFS is more than fine. If you have root feeders, consider popping osmocote plus capsules in there. 

If not, don't worry about it. I tend to not worry about ferts at all.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> best of luck.


What kind of rocks should I use? River rocks from landscape supply? What's the best way to make caves and hideouts with this type of riveresque layout


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> PFS is more than fine. If you have root feeders, consider popping osmocote plus capsules in there.
> 
> If not, don't worry about it. I tend to not worry about ferts at all.


1" enough?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Siddhartha Saive said:


> Awesome tank [emoji4]
> I have a planted 600 gallon with a sump myself [emoji6]
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=486449
> 
> ...



Your video was the reason I decided to make it planted instead of saltwater. I loved the 10 elephant noses...


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

A good substrate is very important for rooted plants (which I imagine you'd want to have some of). I suggest looking into mineralized topsoil, possibly with a kitty litter and peat granule base (the former provides extra clay). You could cap with pool filter sand. However, light substrates can wash out the colors of fish. If you want a darker sand look into something like 3m quartz sand or black diamond blasting sand.

As for rocks, depends on how much money you have. Stuff like ohko stone is very cool but very pricey ($8 a lb). A personal favorite of mine is petrified wood, which should be available at some lfs and online from various fossil/rock dealers. Lava rock is another good common option. If you want to make caves and structures, start out with large pieces of rock, and then chisel to your liking.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> What kind of rocks should I use? River rocks from landscape supply? What's the best way to make caves and hideouts with this type of riveresque layout


You're going to want more like 3-4 inches of substrate. 

Rock wise, I don't know how much you want in there, so I can't exactly say what's right for you. 

Different rocks leech different amounts of stuff into the water, but you might be well off with lava rock, and when making structures with that, it creates its own caves.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> You're going to want more like 3-4 inches of substrate.
> 
> Rock wise, I don't know how much you want in there, so I can't exactly say what's right for you.
> 
> Different rocks leech different amounts of stuff into the water, but you might be well off with lava rock, and when making structures with that, it creates its own caves.


Guess I'll be getting some more pfs. I think I'm going to order some seiryu stone. Any objections?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> Guess I'll be getting some more pfs. I think I'm going to order some seiryu stone. Any objections?


That might be more maint than you want. It will raise your parameters perhaps more than you want. 

Lava rock won't, and there's a neat black version of it. 

There's a user here named Bartohog who sells incredible sandstone you'll find used in all of my scapes. He might give you a bulk deal. 

That would look nice, offer natural caves and not raise your params!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

I ended up ordering some seiryu stone. 
80lbs of it.

Including my sump, I have over 700 gallons of water, so that's like putting a 1lb stone in a 10 gallon. Parameter change should be neglible, HOPEFULLY!!! 

Will post pics of the stone on Thursday and will attach the manzanita to slate.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Can someone suggest plants for my tank.

Non co2 for now, light level is adjustable.


Pfs for substrate.

Would it be bad to do just a bunch of ferns, Anubias, and Java moss?

Tell me your suggestions


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## teddo10 (Nov 9, 2004)

That size tank you will need low maintenance plants and one hand maintenance preferably. I would give Swords a good look. Usually these do best and are easiest to maintain in my large tank. Have a look at my journal.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Anubias are your best bet. From micro petite to the largest sizes of Anubias, it is a hardy plant that is diverse and can be an aquascape in and of itself. 

Talk to h4n. He'll hook you up.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> Can someone suggest plants for my tank.
> 
> Non co2 for now, light level is adjustable.
> 
> ...


That wouldn't be a bad thing, but with just epiphytic plants your tank would certainly look bare at the substrate level. There is a lot of variety with these plants though. Needle leaf java fern looks awesome in big bunches, and Bolbitis is a great option for areas with high flow. There all sizes and shapes of Anubias as well. Mosses are another plant with lots of variety - Fissidens and erect moss are my favorites at the moment (java moss' growth pattern is somewhat unruly).

Vallisneria are good for non-nutritious substrates but can get really unruly, sending runners everywhere, so those may not be the best choice for low maintenance.

I highly recommend at least putting a layer of mineralized topsoil (available from commercial sources; you don't have to make your own) or using something like flourite sand (which actually does have quite a few nutrients at first and absorbs nutrients from the water making them available for plant roots). This would open up your options for low maintenance plants a lot more.

With a good substrate, you could grow all kinds of Cryptocoryne. Small species like C. parva or C. willissi x lucens are great for the foreground, while tall ones like C. balansae and C. usteriana are great background plants. Others like C. pontederifolia, C. spiralis, and C. wendtii are good for the midground. One of my favorite easy crypts is C. wendtii 'green gecko', which gets to be bright green with red highlights and is short enough to be the foregroud in your tank.

Certain stems are good for no CO2 tanks as well. Bacopa sp. (B. colorata is my favorite) are great, as is Rotala rotundifolia. If you end up with softer water (by using RO you could compensate for the effects of the seiryu stone) Cabomba carolinia is another easy stem plant. Staurogyne repens and downoi (Pogestemon helferi) are also good stem plants, and these look great in the foreground.

With the amount of plants you'd need (except for the stems and vals, all the plants mentioned are slow growers) I'd look into buying bulk from a commercial nursery.


Also if you have the means to get mineralized soil putting it in should not be so hard and will give you many more options. Though your tank is filled now, you will most likely want to drain it when you have all your rocks and plants on hand and are ready to set up - it makes it much much easier to arrange the rocks to your liking and to plant. You can scoop your sand to one side and place the soil, and then do that for the other side. If you can't get soil in there at least try using some root tabs (ones made from osmocote plus are good).

Also, I'd look up some basic aquascaping principles (there are some great threads to be found on this forum and others as well). With big tanks, it's in your best interest to get things right the first time, as rearranging things once the tank is set up can get very difficult.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> That wouldn't be a bad thing, but with just epiphytic plants your tank would certainly look bare at the substrate level. There is a lot of variety with these plants though. Needle leaf java fern looks awesome in big bunches, and Bolbitis is a great option for areas with high flow. There all sizes and shapes of Anubias as well. Mosses are another plant with lots of variety - Fissidens and erect moss are my favorites at the moment (java moss' growth pattern is somewhat unruly).
> 
> Vallisneria are good for non-nutritious substrates but can get really unruly, sending runners everywhere, so those may not be the best choice for low maintenance.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the great advice. I am going to definitely do some rooted plants but mostly plants on the wood, rocks, and floating. Loaches are one of the reasons why I am doing this tank so this helps my case. I am going to try the root tab route for my substrate plants for now.

I know the aquascaping principles for marine aquaria well, can you direct my to a good thread outlining ones for planted aquaria?

How can I find a commercial source for plants?


THANKS ALL


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm sure at least some of the aquascaping principles for marine tanks are transferable to freshwater tanks. It's just that with plants, you have to take into account many factors like, color, leaf size, and texture that affect a layout. 

Here are some good links:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/67445-elements-aquascaping.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...7-aquascaping-principles-birgit-wolfgang.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Aquascaping-Principles-and-Technique/27/

If you have any access to TFH magazine, Takashi Amano, arguably the most famous aquascaper out there, has had a monthly column on Nature Aquarium style aquascaping since 2005. 


Since you want loaches it's probably best to go with heavy rooting plants like crypts if you do end up getting rooted plants. Stem plants can easily be uprooted, especially in the first few days after planting.

Normally I would recommend getting plants from fellow hobbyists, but since your tank is so large that may be unfeasible. I'd try working out deals with an LFS or others who get in plants in large quantities. Gordon Richards (gordonrichards on the forum) is good for crypts and Anubias (I got a lot of cheap balansae from him before). If you have a business license perhaps you could try buying wholesale. However there are some plants that just won't be available commercially (like needle-leaf java fern or rarer Cryptocoryne) - in those cases I would look out for hobbyists selling large amounts for a lower price, which does happen every now and then with tank breakdowns and such.

It's very helpful to have as many plants as possible when you do your initial scape, as it's much easier to plant them when the tank is drained and you can more easily envision your scape as you create it. It also helps prevent algae issues. Furthermore, many epiphytes (especially Anubias) grow slowly, so if you want a lush tank from the start you'll have to plant densely.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> Anubias are your best bet. From micro petite to the largest sizes of Anubias, it is a hardy plant that is diverse and can be an aquascape in and of itself.
> 
> Talk to h4n. He'll hook you up.


Thanks for the advice MABJ, I just placed an order with h4n. He's a good guy.

6x melon sword 12+"
6x pinwheel sword 6+"
4x rosette sword
15x needle leaf fern
6x anubis's nana
6x anubias petite 
4x Anubias minima 4+ leaved
floaters 
4x gb peacock
4x gb java
10x crypt green gecko
10x crypt parva
10x Crypt Pontederfolia
10x Sagittaria
6x 2x2 Hygrocotyle sibthorpioides/Dwarf pennywort
40x Bacopa Monnieri 


Is this a good start?

Anything I need to know about these types of plants? Tips, pointers?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Here's a front to back picture to keep everyone interested.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Are you in these pictures? Lol I'm just realizing there's a person in some of them. Is the tank acrylic?

Your tank will look great with those plants if you plant them right. Try to make a 'flow' if you know what I'm saying. If you're going for a river scape like I envisioned the tank being, then there's not going to be random plants in the middle of the current, smaller plants will jut out of rocks there, and larger plants will cluster on the sides away from the main current.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

are those reef lights? they look really blue. as far as plants I'm not sure. I would think that is good but don't listen to me.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> Thanks for the advice MABJ, I just placed an order with h4n. He's a good guy.
> 
> 6x melon sword 12+"
> 6x pinwheel sword 6+"
> ...


Looks like a pretty good starting list, but it may not be enough to plant the tank yet. I would definitely try to get more epiphytes though if that's what your focus will be. I think Bolbitis is one that would look really good in your tank as it can get to be a pretty big plant. Also, you may want to get some moss for your manzanita depending on the look you're going for. 

You can get smaller tanks to temporarily float the plants in (or even buckets will work). Just make sure there's some water flow and light.

For the crypts and swords put root tabs around an inch away from the plant.

Also since your tank is tall you may want to look into getting some sort of lotus (Nymphaea sp.). Lagenandra meeboldi 'pink' is another good tall plant, though it can be a bit hard to find.

Also you may want some floaters. Water hyacinth and water lettuce are some good larger ones (plus water hyacinth can get some attractive flowers).


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

180g said:


> are those reef lights? they look really blue. as far as plants I'm not sure. I would think that is good but don't listen to me.


There are reef bulbs in the light during that picture, but I have replaced with something closer to sunlight spectrum around 8k right now


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## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

not fair, your tank is wider than mine is long.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> Are you in these pictures? Lol I'm just realizing there's a person in some of them. Is the tank acrylic?
> 
> Your tank will look great with those plants if you plant them right. Try to make a 'flow' if you know what I'm saying. If you're going for a river scape like I envisioned the tank being, then there's not going to be random plants in the middle of the current, smaller plants will jut out of rocks there, and larger plants will cluster on the sides away from the main current.


That is my girlfriend 
The tank is acrylic, yes.
Good tips!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Looks like a pretty good starting list, but it may not be enough to plant the tank yet. I would definitely try to get more epiphytes though if that's what your focus will be. I think Bolbitis is one that would look really good in your tank as it can get to be a pretty big plant. Also, you may want to get some moss for your manzanita depending on the look you're going for.
> 
> You can get smaller tanks to temporarily float the plants in (or even buckets will work). Just make sure there's some water flow and light.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the advice.

H4n said I'm getting a bag of floaters


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

jmf3460 said:


> not fair, your tank is wider than mine is long.


Oopsie


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

How lucky of you to have a girlfriend who's okay with such a large tank. :thumbsup:


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

Axelrodi202 said:


> How lucky of you to have a girlfriend who's okay with such a large tank. :thumbsup:


No kidding, I just bought a 40B (I don't consider this big at all) and my wife saw it last night and says "Where the **** do you plan on putting that?" Haha.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> That is my girlfriend
> The tank is acrylic, yes.
> Good tips!


Nice! My girlfriend also supports my tanks, however my tanks would empty into yours and not even cover the bottom of the tank. Lol.

So... Pretend we're looking face down at your tank. Key is 1 2 3 4 

Back:
X---------------------------X
I P 212 I
I P 34 I
I P I
I 34 P I
I 212 P I
X---------------------------X
Front: 

1- Driftwood
2- Long swords and longer plants
3- smaller plants like anubias & ferns
4- rocks

That's roughly how I'd do a river scape, with path P leading up through the middle from X to X. That can be where your powerhead pushes the current.

Attached a pic as TPT is screwing it up.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Another tip for scaping is look through a bunch of aquascapes and get a sense for what the good ones have in common. Old AGA contest results are a great resource:

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2013/


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## mopani (Oct 29, 2013)

Planted600 said:


> Charlotte!


just down the road in hickory.. you need to come to some of AQ meeting in winston some time and join our FB group, cant wait to see this...:bounce:


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

mopani said:


> just down the road in hickory.. you need to come to some of AQ meeting in winston some time and join our FB group, cant wait to see this...:bounce:


What facebook group? And I'm in winston during some of the week!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> Nice! My girlfriend also supports my tanks, however my tanks would empty into yours and not even cover the bottom of the tank. Lol.
> 
> So... Pretend we're looking face down at your tank. Key is 1 2 3 4
> 
> ...


Neat, thanks!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Another tip for scaping is look through a bunch of aquascapes and get a sense for what the good ones have in common. Old AGA contest results are a great resource:
> 
> http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2013/


Oh yeah! Cool


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## mopani (Oct 29, 2013)

Planted600 said:


> What facebook group? And I'm in winston during some of the week!



https://www.facebook.com/groups/233500553412439/. it is usually first week of month but since it is the 4th it will be held the 11th. the leader is a big time plant person and there is always a plant auction


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## Siddhartha Saive (Nov 21, 2013)

Planted600 said:


> 6x melon sword 12+"
> 6x pinwheel sword 6+"
> 4x rosette sword
> 15x needle leaf fern
> ...


That's a good start but you are going to need a lot more plants. Your tank has a bigger footprint than mine. For example I have 120 anubias nana and over 120 Java ferns(3 var) and around 200 crypts(4 var).
It depends on how densely planted you want it to be. 

Don't get discouraged if you see any plants melting.. Some plants do better in different tanks. 
The anubias and ferns will do good but grow very very slow. That's the reason to start with more. 
The crypts will survive in sand but grow slow. 
You can fill up the tank with what does good in your tank and what you like. 
DYI ferts will give good results. Don't use commercial ones as they are mostly water and overpriced.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Siddhartha Saive said:


> That's a good start but you are going to need a lot more plants. Your tank has a bigger footprint than mine. For example I have 120 anubias nana and over 120 Java ferns(3 var) and around 200 crypts(4 var).
> It depends on how densely planted you want it to be.
> 
> Don't get discouraged if you see any plants melting.. Some plants do better in different tanks.
> ...


liquid ferts?

Thanks for your help


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

Man I really hope you plan on stocking this with apistogrammas! Such beautiful fish and to see a huge tank with multiple species breeding would be amazing!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

ErtyJr said:


> Man I really hope you plan on stocking this with apistogrammas! Such beautiful fish and to see a huge tank with multiple species breeding would be amazing!


I'm looking for fish recommendations, give me some ideas!

What kind and how many of each kind of fish?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> I'm looking for fish recommendations, give me some ideas!
> 
> What kind and how many of each kind of fish?


Apistos do best in harems with more females than males. There are a lot of species out there. The ones you will most likely find in an LFS are A. cacuatoides and A agassizi. If you are willing to have fish shipped to you there are a lot more options like A. viejita or A. panduro. Keep in mind they tend to be territorial of their space on the tank bottom, so if you have other bottom dwellers like loaches or cories make sure everyone has enough space.

With the dark look of all the epiphytic plants, I think cardinals would be great schoolers. You could get hundreds!


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## twkoch (Aug 29, 2013)

Awesome tank, man! Honestly, I would go dirted with this tank. With such a big tank and planting it with regular substrate and dosing ferts would cost a fortune. You could dirt it for cheap and the best thing about dirting it would be that you wouldn't have to dose any ferts. You can also go high-tech with a dirted tank if that's something you want to do. Even with a high-tech dirted tank, you don't really have to dose any ferts. Did I mention how well plants do in a dirted tank and how it's much more natural for the fish and the plants?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

twkoch said:


> Awesome tank, man! Honestly, I would go dirted with this tank. With such a big tank and planting it with regular substrate and dosing ferts would cost a fortune. You could dirt it for cheap and the best thing about dirting it would be that you wouldn't have to dose any ferts. You can also go high-tech with a dirted tank if that's something you want to do. Even with a high-tech dirted tank, you don't really have to dose any ferts. Did I mention how well plants do in a dirted tank and how it's much more natural for the fish and the plants?


Substrate is substrate lol. If he wants to add clown puke it wouldn't be any more natural for the fish. 

His tank isn't going to need all too many ferts. And he's already stated he wants low maintenance. High tech isn't low maint.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Guys, about to place another order for plants.

Is $4.50 fair for Anubias nana potted, $4.75 for Anubias gold
$3.00 for java fern?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> Guys, about to place another order for plants.
> 
> Is $4.50 fair for Anubias nana potted, $4.75 for Anubias gold
> $3.00 for java fern?


It depends on the size. If they're larger, yes. If they're smaller, it's just ok. See if you can get a deal on bulk.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Guys vote on these rough aquascape sketches for me!

#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> It depends on the size. If they're larger, yes. If they're smaller, it's just ok. See if you can get a deal on bulk.


Do you know of anyone who can sell upwards of 100 Anubias?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

5 and 3 are too symmetrical, but 3 might work if you use the right materials to scape. 

4 is too hard to pull off/messy. 

2 isn't slanted enough, therefore too open in the middle. 

1 is really nice if you use your shorter plants to the front, taller plants to the back. 

So to summarize, 1 and 3 are your best bets if you do it right!


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> Do you know of anyone who can sell upwards of 100 Anubias?


0.0 they grow so slow. I wouldn't know anybody with them on hand.. Between sonicpath and h4n you might rustle up 40... You might be able to get some off a plant website in bulk at a deal if you email the customer service.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> 5 and 3 are too symmetrical, but 3 might work if you use the right materials to scape.
> 
> 4 is too hard to pull off/messy.
> 
> ...




Thanks! Guess what? Number one is my rendition of your advice from a few days ago. Is that sorta what you meant?


----------



## twkoch (Aug 29, 2013)

MABJ said:


> Substrate is substrate lol. If he wants to add clown puke it wouldn't be any more natural for the fish.
> 
> His tank isn't going to need all too many ferts. And he's already stated he wants low maintenance. High tech isn't low maint.


:icon_roll Did you read anything I said? lol 

I take it you don't know anything about dirt or have never tried it. Dirt is about as low maintenance as you can get. Do your research next time. I also didn't say he wanted to do high-tech. I simply said if he ever wanted to go high-tech he could do so with the dirt he already has but just add high lights/co2 and still not have to waste money on ferts. 

Even using a little bit of ("all too many") ferts in a 600 gallon tank will end up costing tons of money over time.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

I vote 4!


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> Do you know of anyone who can sell upwards of 100 Anubias?


Gordon Richards might be able to help you out. 

Also with all the epiphytes you're going to have, I think you could do with more rock oriented scapes. Hopefully you have some tall rocks you can use to emphasize the height of the tank.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Gordon Richards might be able to help you out.
> 
> Also with all the epiphytes you're going to have, I think you could do with more rock oriented scapes. Hopefully you have some tall rocks you can use to emphasize the height of the tank.


agreed with the rock thing.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Aside from using ro water, is there a way to get my ph down to 7-7.5 from 7.9?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> Aside from using ro water, is there a way to get my ph down to 7-7.5 from 7.9?


Indian almond (ketapang) leaves. I think the general recommendation is one per 10 gallons.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

twkoch said:


> :icon_roll Did you read anything I said? lol
> 
> I take it you don't know anything about dirt or have never tried it. Dirt is about as low maintenance as you can get. Do your research next time. I also didn't say he wanted to do high-tech. I simply said if he ever wanted to go high-tech he could do so with the dirt he already has but just add high lights/co2 and still not have to waste money on ferts.
> 
> Even using a little bit of ("all too many") ferts in a 600 gallon tank will end up costing tons of money over time.


Someone is salty lol. I've read up on dirt tanks, and I know the process of installing one. I also know they can be alien and uncomfortable to anyone not used to them. 

The plants he is using would barely require fertilization. Aside from swords, I've kept each successfully in fully planted tanks with no ferts.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

I am going to start testing my water to see what levels i'm at. Which test kits are essential for the planted tank?

PH, KH, GH
ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> I am going to start testing my water to see what levels i'm at. Which test kits are essential for the planted tank?
> 
> PH, KH, GH
> ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?


Yep. Jake(somewhatshocked) recommends I think Sera tests? That name actually doesn't sound right. PM him. He'll tell you. 

Otherwise get The API master test kit for all your needs. (You'll need to also get GH KH test kit from API. 

All told like $35.


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## shrimpletess (Jun 1, 2014)

I'd definitely go with mineralised top soil under the sand if it were me.
It's not just about the ferts it provides. It also produces co2 naturally in the soil via decomposition.
You can never have a nicer low tech with just sand as substrate. 
So all the organics falling in the substrate will be actually a plus in a dirted tank, instead of a problem.


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## Siddhartha Saive (Nov 21, 2013)

Try to get your plants from a whole sale dealer or from a hobbyist breaking down their tank etc. 
It'll be cheaper. Take your time to get what you want. Rome was not built in a day 

One more thing you can look into is making a wall of plants at the back. You can attach a mesh etc to the back wall and fill it with epiphytes like anubias, ferns, bolbitis etc. 
Plan ahead and decide on what you want.

Don't worry about your ph too much. Maintaining a stable ph is much more important. Even discus will do good in ph upto 8, if it's stable. I strongly advise not to add any chemicals, media etc to change ph. It will only cause more problems in such a large tank. They are temporary and will cause fluctuations in the ph.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Siddhartha Saive said:


> Try to get your plants from a whole sale dealer or from a hobbyist breaking down their tank etc.
> It'll be cheaper. Take your time to get what you want. Rome was not built in a day
> 
> One more thing you can look into is making a wall of plants at the back. You can attach a mesh etc to the back wall and fill it with epiphytes like anubias, ferns, bolbitis etc.
> ...



Thanks for the advice.

Do you think it's worth draining the tank to add soil under sand. The only rooted plants will be some swords, crypts for now.

Or could I just pop some root tabs around the plants?


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## Siddhartha Saive (Nov 21, 2013)

Planted600 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> Do you think it's worth draining the tank to add soil under sand. The only rooted plants will be some swords, crypts for now.
> 
> Or could I just pop some root tabs around the plants?


It's not worth it imo. Just add ferts and you'll be fine. 
If most of your plants(anubias, ferns ) are not going to be in the sand, it doesn't really matter. 

I have only sand in my tank. Crypts, vals, lagenandra do good in my tank. Amazon sword didn't do good. I had other swords in my tank earlier E. rubin and E. ozelot which did good though.
Even if you have soil, the ferts in it will only last for a year maybe. Similarly the root tabs last for around 3 months maybe. 
So I suggest get the fertilizers you need from a chemical store and it will save you lots of unnecessary work and money. 
You might not be able to grow every plant but you have lots of choices in low tech plants. Stick with the plants which work for you. So you won't need to worry about plants melting if you don't keep the parameters always. I say this because the tank is big. If you put in too much time worrying and for maintenance, it'll get old fast. 

Check plantbrain 's 1600 gallon behemoth and a 10000 litre aquarium on YouTube. They have the back wall fully covered by plants. They look amazing


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

I like sketch #3.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I think it is worth putting soil in given all the crypts and swords you have. IME even with root tabs these plants may struggle without soil, especially without co2.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

I'm wondering if my wet dry filter will cause my co2 levels to drop to almost nothing? How do you recommend I measure my co2 levels, is there a good way. 

Also I'm going to buy some ferts soon, should I buy osmo root tabs, or make something myself? Do I need any liquid fert?


How about ramshorn and or Malaysian trumpet snails for my tank?


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## redhottoast (Aug 7, 2012)

I would go with 4

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> I'm wondering if my wet dry filter will cause my co2 levels to drop to almost nothing? How do you recommend I measure my co2 levels, is there a good way.
> 
> Also I'm going to buy some ferts soon, should I buy osmo root tabs, or make something myself? Do I need any liquid fert?
> 
> ...


I'd get 50-200 of each. They'll reproduce and take care of themselves.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> I'd get 50-200 of each. They'll reproduce and take care of themselves.


I'm not always around each day to feed the fish, so are there any things I can put into the tank that is a natural food source for some of the fish, and that maybe breeds?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> I'm not always around each day to feed the fish, so are there any things I can put into the tank that is a natural food source for some of the fish, and that maybe breeds?


Shrimp and snails are a great start. 

You might also consider starting a culture of Copepods and maybe seed shrimp. They're a great thing to have for fish. 

But fish don't eat every day in the wild. Logically they'll be fine if you don't feed them for a few days and then do a nice feeding. 

I know I don't feed my shrimp more than once every 4 days. 

So originally I just wanted to clarify I said shrimp and snails because sometimes fish will pick off a weaker/slower shrimp and kill newborn snails. 

The snails create good biofilm for the Copepods and shrimp. It's a nice little cycle.


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## MeCasa (Apr 22, 2014)

Planted600 said:


> I'm not always around each day to feed the fish, so are there any things I can put into the tank that is a natural food source for some of the fish, and that maybe breeds?


Throw in a deer carcass once in awhile? :icon_mrgr


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)




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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Very nice. Since most of your rocks seem to be of a similar height, maybe try sloping the substrate from the front to the back of the aquarium to give a sense of height. Many nature aquarium scapes have only 1-2 inches of substrate in the front and 5-6 inches in the back (and that's in the smaller tanks!).


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Very nice. Since most of your rocks seem to be of a similar height, maybe try sloping the substrate from the front to the back of the aquarium to give a sense of height. Many nature aquarium scapes have only 1-2 inches of substrate in the front and 5-6 inches in the back (and that's in the smaller tanks!).


Quite true. Could give a lot of depth.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Rocks came from mrbluepanda

I recommend him/her.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Is there a substrate I can add or mix into the pfs to increase the nutrients besides the drain tank and add dirt route? I do plan on using root tabs in the areas I have plants in the substrate. Can you recommend a liquid fert as well for the plants I'm keeping:

Anubias
Ferns
Jungle val
Swords
Crypts


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

im going to try an experiment with my 20g L to see if I can mix oil-dry into the sand to try and give it some CEC.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Everyone, so I got my first order of plants in today. Turns out, I don't know what I'm doing. This is my first serious planted tank. 

I'm going to post some pictures, and you guys tell me what types of plants I have.

I do not know if I have them planted correctly, as in too deep, not deep enough, too close together, etc.

The principals I used when attempting to place the plants were
1. Place like plants in groups. Like patches.
2. Place smaller shorter plants in foreground, and move back from there.



I am kinda discouraged, let me know how I did...



By the way, you couldn't see them in the previous pictures, but I added a few groups of tetras and a couple small loaches a while back. This tank has had water in it for about a month, and I cycled with fish food. This is the main reason I didn't want to drain tank for dirt. But to be honest I'm more into schools of fish at this point so that took priority. We will see if the plant thing takes hold. I need your help!


So here we go!!!!! Let me have it



My question on this photo is, should I chop off any of these leaves?


Anubias of some sort. Rubber band to a rock, rhizome is above sand I'm pretty sure 


Not exactly sure what I have here.
I planted 6-7 plants a couple inches apart in a bunch.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Those look well done so far. Will need a full tank shot for judgement, though.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Java fern tied to a rock.


Anubis of some sort, I moved this one back a little further.


These, whatever they are, are small and scrawny. I put them in front left corner.




Needle leef java fern? The rhizome looked tiny of these, I couldn't tell if that's what this is.


Sword, put these in back. Did I bury properly? I will get some root tabs under these I guess.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Looks like needle leaf. Did you get your tank cycled before deciding on stock?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

How I planted the sword. I think it's a melon



Swords in back right corner


Needle leaf fern in a clump, mid-ish ground.


Rosette swordx4


Something I put in foreground, what is it


Anubias?


Something small and weak



Some swords in the back left... Pinwheel I think



Here is a fts, but it's hard to get a pic that shows everything!


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Looks pretty good!

The first plant you pictured looks to me to be some of sword plant. It may get larger as it grows, so be careful of that. You can cut off any dead leaves on the outer edge.

Good job planting the anubias and fern. You do in fact have some needle leaf java fern - the rhizome on this variety tends to be small.

The "small and scrawny plants" are Cryptocoryne pontederifolia. They don't take moves well, but should recover as they acclimate. The "small and weak" ones look to be some sort of Cryptocoryne, most likely a C. wendtii variant. Same deal as the ponts.

You planted the big swords correctly. The mystery foreground plant looks like dwarf sagittaria.

Do you still have more plants coming in?

And don't worry about not getting everything perfect. Aquascaping is a skill that takes years to master. A lot of what you need to know you will learn with experience, like growth patterns or the visual impression of different plant grouping. Your rock work seems pretty good from what I can see, though the one grouping of wood and rock in the front left center looks a bit odd. I'd still try to get some more sand in the back though.

Also have you determined your stock? Seems like you already have a lot of species in there.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

MABJ said:


> Looks like needle leaf. Did you get your tank cycled before deciding on stock?


I cycled for around 3 weeks using my autofeeder each day to feed the empty tank with sand. I have 750 gallons of volume so as long as I keep my feeding light, I should be able to keep up with the load.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Oh yeah, I just remembered - you can actually add some nutritive substrate to your tank with laterite. Most pet stores carry it. Check out posts #11, #14 in this thread


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Looks pretty good!
> 
> The first plant you pictured looks to me to be some of sword plant. It may get larger as it grows, so be careful of that. You can cut off any dead leaves on the outer edge.
> 
> ...



I have some small groups of fish and will add to those groups. 
But for now...
Black neons
Bleeding hearts
Cherry barbs
Denisons barbs
Rosy barbs
Clown loaches


I plan to add
Rainbows
Congo tetras maybe
Glass catfish
Maybe hatchetfish


Maybe others later on


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Looks pretty good!
> 
> The first plant you pictured looks to me to be some of sword plant. It may get larger as it grows, so be careful of that. You can cut off any dead leaves on the outer edge.
> 
> ...



I plan to order more plants as long as I don't kill all of these in the next 3 weeks


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Solid stocking plan. Personally I'd aim for less species and bigger groups, but with such a big tank the multiple schools look definitely works too.

The crypts, java fern, and Anubias are all slow growers, and the crypts may take a while to bounce back. With the latter two, if they stay green then they're doing well. With crypts, if the roots are still healthy the plant has a chance of reviving. The swordplants should grow well for you if you supplement them with root tabs or the laterite balls I mentioned earlier.

If things don't go right at first, don't get too discouraged with the plants! Perseverance is one of the things all of us in the hobby need. There were plenty of moments where I felt like giving up, but I stuck with it and now I'm the better for it - I'm sure the rest of the people on this forum could say the same of their hobby


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

That is a big tank that's for sureroud: 

Are you using your ATI light on this tank? I would add a bunch of fast growing stem plants to suck up nutrients and help keep algae at bay until things get going. It's best to plant as heavy as possible when you first start a tank even if you don't plan to keep all of the plants you use. Get some Hygrophilia species, wisteria, floaters. You can always replace them with other plants after some time.


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## jeffpersonn (Feb 9, 2014)

The crypt will grow regardless if it has leaves. The main thing is that the rhizome must be there


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

love the scape so far!


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## jmsaltfish797 (Oct 27, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> I'm wondering if my wet dry filter will cause my co2 levels to drop to almost nothing? How do you recommend I measure my co2 levels, is there a good way.
> 
> im running co2 with a sump on my tank. i use a media reactor (like the ones for a reef tank) and have the outlet dumping right in front of my return pump. to put it simply, i gassed several fish with a DIY sugar and yeast setup using this method. it all depends on how you diffuse the co2 into the water column.
> 
> tank looks great so far BTW.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Guys, how can I add floaters to my tank if the surface skimming of the overflow box pulls in the plants?


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## Adrand (Feb 13, 2012)

Planted600 said:


> Guys, how can I add floaters to my tank if the surface skimming of the overflow box pulls in the plants?


I had to relegate my floaters into the refugium portion of my sump when I drilled my tank. The overflow was getting clogged. You might be able to use some airline floating on the surface to contain the floaters or to fence off the area around the overflow. I found this option to be a bit unsightly though in my 20l.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

On a tank so big, I don't know the answer here. On smaller tanks I usually put up a string/wire/floating piece of wood to separate the direct flow from the floaters. It always works. It could be put to use on a larger scale, I guess.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

why not just a piece of screen?


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## teddo10 (Nov 9, 2004)

Looks like you have just a thin layer of substrate, might be too thin:







Is that the glass bottom in the foreground of the plant? If so that is too little.

With fish the sand will be flattened eventually, i would take care to plant the plants on a mound, i would make sure the plants are at the same height as the substrate, with only the roots just buried below the substrate.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

any updates?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

I puchased 400 more pounds of sand so I could make a slight slope up front to back for depth. So now there is 600 pounds of sand. Should give me 2" in front, 4"+ in back.

I also purchased a fish order online. Should be delivered Wednesday. 

6 clown loaches 2"
6 botia modesta 2.5"
2 red tail tiger loach 3"
9 boesemani rainbows
9 turquoise rainbows
9 glossolepis incisus (red rainbows)
3 Florida raised Congo tetra
3 wild caught Congo tetra

Interested to compare the two tetras, color, finnage, and durability.

The wild caught was about twice the price.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Because this is a low tech tank, I decided to keep the plants really simple and hardy.

Going to try to cover entire back with a wall of jungle val, and cover much of the bottom with dwarf sag.

Then throw some Anubias berteri around the rocks on left side and needle lead java fern around the rocks on the right.

I ordered 200 jungle val and 400 dwarf sag.

I decided I want a uniform look with just a couple plant species to keep it clean.


Down the road.... Maybe experiment with some swords, crypts, dhg.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

I'm a hardscape guy, so I don't want to hide all my manzanita and stone with plants, thus the wall of val in the back and dwarf sag around the hardscape on bottom.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Soooo how many bags of Ada / aqua soul?


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

you could put some patches of jungle vals running up through some of the branches maybe? not so much that the hard scape is being covered?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> I'm a hardscape guy, so I don't want to hide all my manzanita and stone with plants, thus the wall of val in the back and dwarf sag around the hardscape on bottom.


As long as you don't use moss to soften the impression of the rocks and wood your hardscape should still stick out even if you have a lot of plants.


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## Siddhartha Saive (Nov 21, 2013)

Planted600 said:


> I also purchased a fish order
> 6 clown loaches 2"
> 6 botia modesta 2.5"
> 2 red tail tiger loach 3"
> ...


DO NOT add the tiger loaches (?shistura sp. ) they are very aggressive. They WILL eat every single small tetra in the tank and possibly nip other fish too 
I added 2 in my tank recently and lost the last few cardinal tetra I had. It's impossible to catch them.

You need to think bigger in fish numbers. It's better to wait a month or two for your tank parameters to settle down and stabilize before you add lots of fish. If you plant heavily the plants will take care of ammonia and nitrates and no need to worry about cycling. 

You dunno how amazing clown loaches look unless you have a big school of them. They are VERY active and move in a school. I have 16 of them. I'll add more soon. Get atleast 25-30 of them. You won't be disappointed


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Siddhartha Saive said:


> DO NOT add the tiger loaches (?shistura sp. ) they are very aggressive. They WILL eat every single small tetra in the tank and possibly nip other fish too
> I added 2 in my tank recently and lost the last few cardinal tetra I had. It's impossible to catch them.
> 
> You need to think bigger in fish numbers. It's better to wait a month or two for your tank parameters to settle down and stabilize before you add lots of fish. If you plant heavily the plants will take care of ammonia and nitrates and no need to worry about cycling.
> ...



I agree 100% and I forgot to mention this was more or a test order to see how it goes, though still a good amount of money! 

In the end, I'm looking for around:
30+Congo tetras
80+ rainbows
16 clown loaches
14 botia modesta
30 corydoras
50 glass catfish
Maybe a school of elephant nose 
Etc etc


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Down_Shift said:


> Soooo how many bags of Ada / aqua soul?


12 50# bags of pfs, around 80 bucks. Using osmocote tabs in sand, I will have lots of epiphytic plants as well.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Siddhartha Saive said:


> DO NOT add the tiger loaches (?shistura sp. ) they are very aggressive. They WILL eat every single small tetra in the tank and possibly nip other fish too
> I added 2 in my tank recently and lost the last few cardinal tetra I had. It's impossible to catch them.
> 
> You need to think bigger in fish numbers. It's better to wait a month or two for your tank parameters to settle down and stabilize before you add lots of fish. If you plant heavily the plants will take care of ammonia and nitrates and no need to worry about cycling.
> ...


What happened to all the cardinals? You had hundreds right?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

So I planted a wall of jungle val yesterday everyone. My question is this: they seem very fragile and clearly the leaves rip or tear very easily. Should i tear off the really loose leaves and then plant as is, or should I cut the leaves all the way down and let the plants grow out again. Also, I'm having a little difficulty with them
Tangling in the current. I have a spray bar 8 feet away but they still get a little tangled, do they work this out as they grow?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Jungle vals are very hardy. Don't cut their leave though; when you cut a leaf the entire leaf dies. They should be fine in a bit of current.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

I've noticed that Vals like very low light. When under bright light, my Vals tips would fray easily but when I moved the light away or added floaters, they grew like crazy. Also, they will perk up when they get adjusted to your light.




Axelrodi202 said:


> Jungle vals are very hardy. Don't cut their leave though; when you cut a leaf the entire leaf dies.


Really? My Vals(maybe 15 plants) were 25"+ long and were cut down to 10" a few months back and didn't loose a single plant/leaf.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

IME jungle vals are fine in high light; they even get a nice red tint to them. The leaves may last for a while when cut, but don't grow back.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

Planted600 said:


> So I planted a wall of jungle val yesterday everyone. My question is this: they seem very fragile and clearly the leaves rip or tear very easily. Should i tear off the really loose leaves and then plant as is, or should I cut the leaves all the way down and let the plants grow out again. Also, I'm having a little difficulty with them
> Tangling in the current. I have a spray bar 8 feet away but they still get a little tangled, do they work this out as they grow?


pics please!


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Axelrodi202 said:


> IME jungle vals are fine in high light; they even get a nice red tint to them. The leaves may last for a while when cut, but don't grow back.


That is 200% not true.

again, I cut them down to 10" a few months back and are all now 30"+ long. Here is a Val in my 20g high guppy tank that was cut down and is now 42" a few months later.

There should also be an "IME" in front of your Val statement.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

For a 600g tank, this is what your order should have looked like :icon_lol:


Planted600 said:


> I also purchased a fish order online. Should be delivered Wednesday.
> 
> 60 clown loaches 2"
> 60 botia modesta 2.5"
> ...


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

AGUILAR3 said:


> For a 600g tank, this is what your order should have looked like :icon_lol:


I agree with you totally... however the cost would have been: 

around $3500 


Only small steps at a time for me.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

AGUILAR3 said:


> That is 200% not true.
> 
> again, I cut them down to 10" a few months back and are all now 30"+ long. Here is a Val in my 20g high guppy tank that was cut down and is now 42" a few months later.
> 
> There should also be an "IME" in front of your Val statement.


Are you sure it's the same leaves growing back?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Holy crap!! So wish I had a 600g tank versus the 125g that I am going to setup. 

Can I ask how much the tank itself set you back?? Is it new or 2nd hand?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

chayos00 said:


> Holy crap!! So wish I had a 600g tank versus the 125g that I am going to setup.
> 
> Can I ask how much the tank itself set you back?? Is it new or 2nd hand?


Second hand, cost me $1800. Originally around $12000. Sump and stand were included with tank. Pretty good deal, only so many people want to house and transport a tank like this.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Planted600 said:


> Second hand, cost me $1800. Originally around $12000. Sump and stand were included with tank. Pretty good deal, only so many people want to house and transport a tank like this.


Awesome! My wife didn't even like the idea of a 6ft tank so I fibbed to her the size and then once home I said "whoops guess it's a little bigger than I thought". Lol


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

About to post some pics. I don't have a good fts, I cant ever get one without glare.

I am sorta happy with my fish purchase, but I did have 2 issues.

1. One of the rainbows was DOA, and a few others had ich that were in the bag with the DOA.

2. My botia modestas and brighttt blue. Clearly dyed. Terrible. I have to find a way to get these out of the tank, its tacky.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)




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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Looks good. Maybe try using a bit of moss on some of the wood with the flatter (sawed off?) tips to give it a more natural look.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

So I planted a lot of jungle val, prolly 200. I'm worried about them though cuz they look like crap, which is expected. However, I read that you cannot plant the node under substrate, and that if it is under, the plant will die. I didn't have enough roots or a strong enough root system to be able to keep these things totally out of the substrate and stay in place. Even if my leaves all melt and new leaves replace them, I would be fine with that. The current leaves are old and nasty and raggedy. Or do you think these plants will die and never come back? I tried to raise them a little today and I also put some root tabs under them so they should have a good chance to get growing soon if all else is fine.

I want the nice thick wall of these so I need to do it right from the start. Do you think I could let the root system develop and them pull them up a little more, or would they melt away first? I want someone to tell me theirs grew just fine the way mine are planted!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Definitely not sure about my sword placement, even though I do like them, they are the greenest fullest plants currently.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Looks good. Maybe try using a bit of moss on some of the wood with the flatter (sawed off?) tips to give it a more natural look.


Perfect, I've got a ton on java moss and peacock moss waiting to be used. Should I keep them separated so I know which is which?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

So, im looking to order some live black worms. If I order a larger amount, can i just put them all in the tank and let the uneaten ones live in the sand/throughout the tank until they are finished off over time? Anyone ever done that?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> So, im looking to order some live black worms. If I order a larger amount, can i just put them all in the tank and let the uneaten ones live in the sand/throughout the tank until they are finished off over time? Anyone ever done that?


I do that. With all the fish you have it'd be hard for any to survive long enough to make it into the sand; it can take them up to an hour to fully secure themselves. Maybe block off your fish from a portion of the tank while you do it?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Planted600 said:


> I am sorta happy with my fish purchase, but I did have 2 issues.
> 
> 1. One of the rainbows was DOA, and a few others had ich that were in the bag with the DOA.
> 
> 2. My botia modestas and brighttt blue. Clearly dyed. Terrible. I have to find a way to get these out of the tank, its tacky.


Make sure to treat for ICH ASAP if you have some infected!! This is where a quarantine tank would be best to use for new fish, so it doesn't infect the rest of the tank.

Love the way this tank is turning out! Makes me want to get off my a$$ and finish my stand to get mine up and running!!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

chayos00 said:


> Make sure to treat for ICH ASAP if you have some infected!! This is where a quarantine tank would be best to use for new fish, so it doesn't infect the rest of the tank.
> 
> Love the way this tank is turning out! Makes me want to get off my a$$ and finish my stand to get mine up and running!!



Thank you. I separated the fishes that looked infected. Im running a 40w uv, and plan to keep my fish fat and eating well so their immune system stays strong.


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## Flinty (Jul 7, 2014)

Maybe put all the blackworms in a soda bottle, put your finger over the top and put it all the way to the substrate and in a planted area then move your finger so they can bury themselves before fish get them? Also, a temp of 88*F for two straight weeks after the last visible sign of ich will kill it off.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

love the look so far! when is the sag coming in? also please post a vid of the tank!


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

So vast!


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Very nice. Full tank shot?!


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

for fertilizing my tank, i'm thinking either the EI package or the PPS-pro for GLA.

I have dosing pumps and an apex controller, so if I get the PPS-pro i would be able to dose an exact (ml) amount at an exact time of day whenever I would like. 

Should I get the pps-pro, I think it will cover everything for me and my equipment suits that package.

Thanks for your opinion.

Also, if i decide to get a co2 system from GLA, which one is best for me? I know the biggest cylinder since my volume is so large.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Planted600 said:


> for fertilizing my tank, i'm thinking either the EI package or the PPS-pro for GLA.
> 
> I have dosing pumps and an apex controller, so if I get the PPS-pro i would be able to dose an exact (ml) amount at an exact time of day whenever I would like.
> 
> ...


EI is more for high tech tanks with lots of light and CO2 (I assume you don't have the latter) and is difficult in a large tank due to the 50% weekly wc required. PPS would probably be better suited for your tank, though I have never used it myself. However a lot of the chemicals used in either system should be the same.


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

Okay so I just measured my KH and Gh.

My Gh is 10, which is right where I want it for my rainbows I think. My kh tested as only 4, can they be that far apart?

I do not know how accurate those Kh/ph co2 conversion charts are, but with my ph of 7.8 and kh of 4.0, that gives me 2ppm of co2 which is very little. 


Any advice people?

Bump: Also ammonia is low around .25 maybe, nitrates are 10, but my nitrites seem to have spiked very high. What do you think is the cause of this. I know plants consume ammonia but what about nitrite, does it mean my bacteria colony isn't established enough for my feeding rate?


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## Planted600 (Jun 27, 2014)

I have some extra canister filters and some media reactors, would it be wise to pack one of those things with ceramic bio media or similar. What's the best way for me to build bacteria without a wet/dry to suck out the little co2 I have


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

Planted600 said:


> Okay so I just measured my KH and Gh.
> 
> My Gh is 10, which is right where I want it for my rainbows I think. My kh tested as only 4, can they be that far apart?
> 
> ...


 
I think its that your tank is cycling maybe? if that's the case just wait for the bb that eats nitrites to colonize. they will turn those nitrites into nitrates.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

High nitrite indicates your cycle is not yet finished. Check out this thread for a discussion on aquatic plants and nitrites; it's pretty interesting stuff.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Your fish bioload was increased too quickly for the nitrogen cycle bacteria colony size to support the load in the tank, the colony is growing and will balance itself out to the bioload. Just watch your levels and do a partial water change if levels get too high. Yes your plants will help with consuming some of the stuff, but the bacteria are the major contributors in the end. Time should be all it takes and monitoring.


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

amazing tank


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

any updates? how are the vals doing? did you get your dwarf sag?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

How's the monster tank going? Got any updates, I'd love to see how it's doing!


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## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

i too was following this build pretty closely, as you rarely see such a big planted tank. anything to report?

thanks,


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## wootlaws (Feb 25, 2011)

Yes, update please!


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

A large group of wild Angels or wild Discus would make this stand out.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Imagine how many chili rasboras you could keep in that!


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

following this


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## Siddhartha Saive (Nov 21, 2013)

Any updates on the tank?


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

Read the entire thread

What a cliff hanger, it was just taking off


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

How is this baby doing?


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## ChalupaBatman (Feb 12, 2015)

Been a long time since the OP posted. I fear the worst... perhaps he fell in and drowned.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I looked before and the OP logs on, but obviously doesn't respond. I even tried to IM OP incase the thread didn't subscribe for them.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Three things come to mind.

1) the bricks collapsed, and he has a knee deep lake in his house
2) He fell in and drowned.. (hopefully not) 
3) its now his hot tub.


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## Srrman (Jul 16, 2015)

I just found this year old thread this morning and read through it entirely with great interest. It is very odd that he suddenly stopped posting updates for this project. Hopefully it did not end disastrously as it had great potential to become a beautiful aquascape tank.


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