# monte carlo Transition from emerged to submerged



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

Hey there!

Unfortunately I can't be of much help as of yet because I'm actually one step behind you right now. I've been growing monte carlo via dsm for about 6 weeks now and I'm thinking about flooding my tank real soon. I'm super nervous, esp since it's my first time doing it so I wanted to follow this thread to see if I can learn anything from someone who has had experience with it. 

Just out of curiosity, have you been dosing anything after flooding? Do you have CO2 or are you using a supplement like excel? How long is your photoperiod, and also how long was your photoperiod during the dsm itself? Also, have you noticed any acceleration in the cycling process as a result of having done the dsm? Thanks!

Also, based on what I've read about the transition after dsm, I think you are indeed experiencing melting and will be transitioning eventually. I can't say when since I dont have any past experiences in that regard, but please do update on what's happening to your monte carlo! I would love to know what's going on and what you're doing to help the monte carlo get back to full health


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Is the DSM the more popular way to go about planting Monte Carlo? Does it make it root faster? What are the benefits versus planting in a tank with water?
I planted mine a few days ago, but I started out with many plants right of the bat.
I am assuming, from what you both have stated, that there will be a die-back at first and then once rooted it will grow?


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## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

Discusluv said:


> Is the DSM the more popular way to go about planting Monte Carlo? Does it make it root faster? What are the benefits versus planting in a tank with water?
> I planted mine a few days ago, but I started out with many plants right of the bat.
> I am assuming, from what you both have stated, that there will be a die-back at first and then once rooted it will grow?


Honestly, regarding monte carlo I don't know if it roots faster, but it grows pretty fast in the dsm once the roots are settled in. I would say my roots took pretty quickly in about 2-3 weeks and ever since then, the leaves have been pretty much doubling once a week. I think most prominent benefit for myself personally to planting monte carlo via dsm is that I won't be providing CO2 afterwards, besides dosing excel for some carbon. Because I don't have a CO2 system, my monte carlo would probably take forever to carpet and that's why I chose to use the DSM first, mostly so I don't have to wait.  I've read some people say that DSM for monte carlo is not really necessary though, but I havent tried it non-DSM, so I can't say. I think usually the DSM is more common with HC since its a high tech plant and needs CO2 to thrive. I guess it saves a few weeks of CO2 diffusion since the CO2 is readily available in the air. 

And again, I don't have much experience, but I read that having a well-established root system helps the plants bounce back pretty quick after transitioning. I hope that's true because it would really suck to lose all my progress so far. I think some people also use the dsm for only a couple weeks just to get some roots locked down into the substrate so that the plants dont float to the top of the water after planting, so it's more of a convenience thing? 

I'm sure there's other things too but that's all I can think of for now.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

waterblossom said:


> Honestly, regarding monte carlo I don't know if it roots faster, but it grows pretty fast in the dsm once the roots are settled in. I would say my roots took pretty quickly in about 2-3 weeks and ever since then, the leaves have been pretty much doubling once a week. I think most prominent benefit for myself personally to planting monte carlo via dsm is that I won't be providing CO2 afterwards, besides dosing excel for some carbon. Because I don't have a CO2 system, my monte carlo would probably take forever to carpet and that's why I chose to use the DSM first, mostly so I don't have to wait.  I've read some people say that DSM for monte carlo is not really necessary though, but I havent tried it non-DSM, so I can't say. I think usually the DSM is more common with HC since its a high tech plant and needs CO2 to thrive. I guess it saves a few weeks of CO2 diffusion since the CO2 is readily available in the air.
> 
> And again, I don't have much experience, but I read that having a well-established root system helps the plants bounce back pretty quick after transitioning. I hope that's true because it would really suck to lose all my progress so far. I think some people also use the dsm for only a couple weeks just to get some roots locked down into the substrate so that the plants dont float to the top of the water after planting, so it's more of a convenience thing?
> 
> I'm sure there's other things too but that's all I can think of for now.


I have had some floaters, but minimally because Im very careful adding water back during water changes. I planted in Amazonia soil, so have had to do water changes daily. Thanks for sharing and good luck to you!


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

It should bounce back fine, just give it some time. If roots made it down into substrate even an inch during dry start, they should stay anchored while all that transitional stuff plays out. I've experienced very little melting going from dry start to flooded, even in a low tech tank with HC. I keep light cycle somewhat short (4-6 hours), moderate PAR (30-50) and just enough ferts to keep things green (I use PPS Pro these days). The shrimp and snails do the rest. Keep them trimmed (need to take my own advice here).


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## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

Discusluv said:


> I have had some floaters, but minimally because Im very careful adding water back during water changes. I planted in Amazonia soil, so have had to do water changes daily. Thanks for sharing and good luck to you!


Awesome! I've since learned that being careful is definitely a virtue in this hobby :grin2: I've planted my monte carlo in UNS Controsoil but I've heard great things about Amazonia too. You're welcome and good luck to you too!


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## JxnDvs (Feb 23, 2018)

[QUOTE
Just out of curiosity, have you been dosing anything after flooding? Do you have CO2 or are you using a supplement like excel? How long is your photoperiod, and also how long was your photoperiod during the dsm itself? Also, have you noticed any acceleration in the cycling process as a result of having done the dsm? Thanks!
[/QUOTE]

For photoperiod I was 12 hours a day at 100% power during DSM and for the first day of having the tank filled and then I reduced it to 6 the second day and I will set it to 8 in a few weeks. Yes I am running pressurized co2, and no im not dosing at the moment but I will be in a few weeks once I get some more plants and the monte carlo has started growing in submerged form.

Update on the monte carlo- I haven't seen really any die back yet and there is some new growth with much smaller, more compact leaves. Im also doing about a 40% water change every three days for the first few weeks to prevent algae

Bump: Also it's pearling every day and has been since I filled it


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## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

[/QUOTE]
For photoperiod I was 12 hours a day at 100% power during DSM and for the first day of having the tank filled and then I reduced it to 6 the second day and I will set it to 8 in a few weeks. Yes I am running pressurized co2, and no im not dosing at the moment but I will be in a few weeks once I get some more plants and the monte carlo has started growing in submerged form.

Update on the monte carlo- I haven't seen really any die back yet and there is some new growth with much smaller, more compact leaves. Im also doing about a 40% water change every three days for the first few weeks to prevent algae

Bump: Also it's pearling every day and has been since I filled it[/QUOTE]

Awesome! When the monte carlo was experiencing some melting, did the leaves just disintegrate to make way for the new submerged leaves or did the monte carlo just bounce back and start growing new leaves on top of the old ones?


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## JxnDvs (Feb 23, 2018)

> Awesome! When the monte carlo was experiencing some melting, did the leaves just disintegrate to make way for the new submerged leaves or did the monte carlo just bounce back and start growing new leaves on top of the old ones?


Some of the old leaves become little paler green, almost clears and they fall off and float up to the top. Then new leaves about half the size of the old ones start growing; so I assume eventually all the old leaves will fall of and I will just have the small new leaves growing.


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## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

JxnDvs said:


> Some of the old leaves become little paler green, almost clears and they fall off and float up to the top. Then new leaves about half the size of the old ones start growing; so I assume eventually all the old leaves will fall of and I will just have the small new leaves growing.


Thats really helpful to know! Thank you  btw, did you start with tissue culture monte carlo or one of those pots (that are usually submerged, I think?)


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## JxnDvs (Feb 23, 2018)

> Thank you btw, did you start with tissue culture monte carlo or one of those pots (that are usually submerged, I think?)


No problem, I started with a pot from my LFS that was grown emersed.


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## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

JxnDvs said:


> No problem, I started with a pot from my LFS that was grown emersed.


Oh cool, good to know! Thanks for your help


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## Beeflower (Nov 27, 2019)

Hi! I know it has been a year ever since this thread was last updated. Can you please update in the Monte Carlo that you grow submerged without co2? Was the melting massive? Did it grow new submerged-form shoots? How long since you flooded then the plants start melting? Is it thriving now? Thank you in advance and pleasee update. I can't seem to find a thread that completely updates their DSM. All just leave their threads hanging and make me confused. please update thank youu, I really appreciate it


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