# Are DIY tank stands over built?



## Guy (Sep 30, 2009)

Don't forget to add the weight of the tank, lighting and canopy if you have one.

Most stands are probably overbuilt. It's a bit better than underbuilding it though. If the paltform the tank is on begins to warp it could pop the aquarium seams and that can lead to a catastrophis failure. If you have an acrylic tank it's less risk but they are not immune to failure either, just a lot less likely.


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## KevinC (May 24, 2004)

Go look at the same size stand at your local Pet** store. Likely there is no center brace other than a plywood piece. You certainly won't see any 2x4's either. Yes, DIY stands are typically over-built. If you use a single sheet of ply to skin the front (cutting out a section for the doors) then you have some additional rigidity/support there too.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Yes, Yes, Yes.


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## alang (Nov 25, 2007)

Perfect, its Original!

I saw your stand on the sticky regarding this subject. I think the stand you made is probably my favorite so far. The tapered legs are a great touch and really help keep the feeling of a massive piece to a minimun.

Can you give details of the carcus of that stand? Is it just a typical cabinet carcus or did you reinforce it somehow?

Because its up on feet, the lower horiziontal member is basically carrying a load similar to what an unsupported top member would carry it (in fact its more concentrated at the center point). Any sagging issues?


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## koop (Sep 18, 2009)

Stand Calculator


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## alang (Nov 25, 2007)

koop said:


> Stand Calculator


Would have been awesome if it actually worked.

*500 - Internal server error.*

*There is a problem with the resource you are looking for, and it cannot be displayed.*


Thanks anyway :smile:


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

My stand for my 75 is all plywood and still completely overbuilt. No center anything but height is an annoying limitation. 

If you want the lightest and most rigid top, build a torsion box for the top bit. 

If you use dimensional lumber, note that twice as thick (in this case tall) is 8x as strong but twice as wide is just twice as strong as one.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You don't need the center support at the front of the stand if you use a horizontal "beam" above the door opening to carry the load out to the outside vertical supports. If that "beam" is 4 inches or more top to bottom, I doubt that the center post does anything at all. The stand I just made is built that way, and it seems to be working fine. However, one similar stand I made without that horizontal piece did sag a little bit, enough to make the doors rub heavily at the top. That's why I added the horizontal board for the current one.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Yes they normally are. It seems the mass produced stands are built "just good enough" IMO. I'd rather build a stand I can fully trust will not fail, versus one that might.

Chances are you'll spend less too!


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## PDX-PLT (Feb 14, 2007)

alang said:


> I can stand on a 2x4 of that length weighing 200 lbs and it doesn't show any deflection at all.


A douglas fir 2x4 will deflect about 0.03" (about a 32nd of an inch) in those circumstances.

Yes most DIY stands are overbuilt. This is mainly because:

* most DIY'rs have no ability to do structural engineering calculations, and overbuild out of an abundance of caution as a result;

* many DIY'rs possess neither the tools nor the skills to perform complicatede or advanced joinery that may be needed with more material-efficient designs;

* framing lumber is cheap, so there's little downside to using lots of it;

* tank manufacturers given little detail regarding what is required in a stand; e.g., they'll state "level and flat support" but fail to say how level or how flat. Again, this tends to lead to overbuilding out of an abundance of caution.


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## Guy (Sep 30, 2009)

PDX-PLT said:


> * framing lumber is cheap, so there's little downside to using lots of it;


... and a huge downside to an insufficient amount.


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## Triv (Jan 10, 2010)

The reason the calc didn't work is because it requires you to fill in all of the fields. Yiou cannot leave one blank.


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## Erloas (Dec 14, 2009)

After I got mine build for my 55g I pretty much decided it was over-built. I also built some aspects of it that I find a bit annoying now. I'm sure its also 10x more sturdy then the ones they have with the 75g tanks at the local store. Why not add another 2x4 or 3 when they are only $3 each. Its not like you are moving the stand very often, so what does it matter if it is heavy.

Considering that the whole thing cost maybe $40 and half of that was for stain and polyurethane which I still have a lot left over, I might just build a new one come summer when I have more time and better weather to make a better one.


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## alang (Nov 25, 2007)

Erloas said:


> After I got mine build for my 55g I pretty much decided it was over-built. I also built some aspects of it that I find a bit annoying now. I'm sure its also 10x more sturdy then the ones they have with the 75g tanks at the local store. Why not add another 2x4 or 3 when they are only $3 each. Its not like you are moving the stand very often, so what does it matter if it is heavy.
> 
> Considering that the whole thing cost maybe $40 and half of that was for stain and polyurethane which I still have a lot left over, I might just build a new one come summer when I have more time and better weather to make a better one.


The issues for me are two fold. First, I don't want to see a construction material tank. This means cladding the frame in nice wood, which brings me to issue two, space. With an over built tank, the space under the tank is less. Granted its not by much, but every little bit helps. Also access through two doors with a center support is very limited. I want to remove that center support in the front. I know hardwood can handle it, its just a matter of being sure I have enough without being grossly over built (see Guy's comment ).

I found someone on a woodworking site that builds tank stands (and other custom furnature) professionally. He seems really knowledgable, and very willing to share his knowledge and experience. I should have a better idea of what this thing is going to look like soon.

This is from his site and is along the lines of what I want to build:
http://www.richinscarpentry.com/gallery.php?level=picture&id=565


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## Erloas (Dec 14, 2009)

Those are some amazing looking stands... I would hate to even think about how much they cost though.

That guy probably has $10-20k worth of tools to make those. Just a planner (which is necessary to do a lot of larger pieces of oaks and most hardwoods, and to get "rough lumber" which makes it reasonably priced) runs 3-5k. 
There are of course a lot of old fashioned tools to do the job for a lot cheaper, but you'll probably be spending a year building a single stand. A good large table saw is also incredibly helpful for working with pieces of that size, and they take up a lot of space and run several thousand as well.

A lot of it depends where you live too. I was thinking about building my stand out of oak, but seeing as how I'm probably 1000+ miles away from sources of oak and I have to get "finished" pieces from some place like home depot (because I don't have the planner/etc to work rough lumber) it really was fairly cost prohibitive. I know if you can get large shipments of rough oak it costs a fraction of the price, our high school does that, we have a full woods shop and built all sorts of really great things. Full entertainment centers (not so much now as 10 years ago when I was in HS and TVs were still put in them), water beds, gun cabinets, etc.

Woodworking is something I would really like to do, and have done some of it. I just don't have the money or space to do anything too big on my own.

With some end caps, and some veneered hardwood plywood you can get some pretty good looking furniture for a reasonable price. You could probably also make something that doesn't need a center brace either. The nice thing about the center piece though is if you aren't a very good craftsman the center bar will help hide that some parts of the stand aren't 100% square, which shows up very clearly when you are hanging doors that meet, especially if/when stuff starts sagging a bit.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

MoonFish said:


> My stand for my 75 is all plywood and still completely overbuilt. No center anything but height is an annoying limitation.
> 
> If you want the lightest and most rigid top, build a torsion box for the top bit.
> 
> If you use dimensional lumber, note that twice as thick (in this case tall) is 8x as strong but twice as wide is just twice as strong as one.



My stand for my 120g is also all plywood, and also completely overbuilt, and it was built by a professional aquarium stand cabinetmaker.

And it has no middle support in the front.


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## alang (Nov 25, 2007)

Well I have a garage wood shop with a very nice table saw and a few other toys. I have built bathroom cabinets in the past with these tools with no problems. Finding the hardwood will be a challenge, and I suspect that it will be rough cut. I'll figure that one out when I see how bad it is. I am not planning any fancy joinery, so no need for special tools. Here is what I am going for:


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## neonmkr (May 16, 2008)

I like your design. Good choice on the joints, this type will carry alot more weight than a simple butt joint. If you've built bathroom cabinets, than you''ll have no problem with this. A stand is nothing more than a cabinet with a fish tank on top. I've built a number of stands over the years and the only time I've used 2x4s are when I built display racks for a pet store and on my 55 where I wanted an open design. The others I've built have been with plywood, or 1xs. Wood standing on end can support large amounts of weight as long as your keep the cabinet from racking (moving left to right, front to back).


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

That is a very beautiful stand design, and it could be built in a garage workshop with just hand power tools, with the possible exception of the legs. Cutting what looks like 4 x 4 material to a taper like that would be a challenge with hand tools, but it can be done. If you have a hardwood store near you, they have lots of planed material available, in a variety of woods. I'm lucky in having a big one near me. But, today all hardwood is very expensive.

An alternative to hardwood, which I found to work very well, is veneered MDF. You can laminate layers of 3/4 MDF to make the thick pieces, then veneer them with your choice of hardwood veneers. I was able to do this in my garage, so anyone with basic woodworking skills should be able to do so. Using this technique, the tapered legs would be easy to make.

Personally, I would add a vertical support in the middle, in the front, just for ease of mind, if nothing else. It would be hidden with the doors closed, would only have to be made from 1 x 4 material, and should prevent any sagging there.


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## davocean (Oct 11, 2009)

You're in SD as well, you should check Lane Stanton Vance (LSV) in San Marcos, great selection.
Boards are fairly clean, just usually need to run through a table saw for straight edges.
I did my 150g frame w/ a 2x6 rim joist to cover the span.
I did add center vertical supports for peace of mind, but I always make them removable, just 2 screws holding in place.
I've pulled them recently to get in there, and they haven't gotten any tighter, leaving me to believe the 2x6 is carrying the load just fine w/out them, but I still keep them in.
Besides peace of mind, I need something for doors to land on, so they stay.


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## alang (Nov 25, 2007)

Thx Hoppy, I have a very nice table saw and other fun toys for woodworking, including a tapering jig for the table saw. Nothing hard on the tank from that perspective. I have never worked with veneers, but have seen your project on this site, and it looks really nice. I just enjoy working with wood rather than MDF.

According to a few sources, the missing center support won't be a problem structure-wise. I don't want one because it just gets in the way when I am working under the tank. I have seen lots of stands that are build this way once I started looking for them.


Dave, thanks for the lead on LSV. I live in RB, so its a close drive. Much closer that Frost in Miramar. Have to go check it out.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

DIY stands are totally overbuilt. It was pretty funny trying to get my family to help me design one (2 brothers and my father are all engineers). They just could not understand my plans and why I would put so much wood under a fish tank. I bought my first stand after scraping a DIY and it is plenty sturdy and build to a faction of the strength even the "underbuilt" stands I see here are.


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## davocean (Oct 11, 2009)

I do agree most of the time my stands are overbuilt, but I'm good w/ that, sleep well at night.
I see alot of folks pointing to manufactured stands as a measure of what minimal amounts of materials can be used to achieve proper strength.
The thing is, alot of people have no idea how many times these fail, or don't stand the test of time.
I have alot of folks asking me to repair failed popout stands.
I just had a guy w/ a brand new Oceanic cabinet crack at the legs after only filling his 90g tank half way.
I'm amazed he didn't have complete failure, which would have been disaster being on the 4th floor of a college dorm.
I'm very firm in my advice that MDF should never be used in any marine applications.
I sometimes wonder if manufactured stands take into consideration water movement/shifting, and spills which can weaken some building materials(especially MDF) and do they build these w/ long term use in mind.
I know mine will last as long as my aquarium will, if not longer.


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## zavikan (Jan 5, 2009)

Something to think on...

I looked at the stands built for tanks the size I wanted (70-80 gal). Most were quite weak in my opinion. designed for pure vertical strength with no side resistance at all. Most regular furniture I have seen are built better then that.

That being said, I used a buffet table for a tank stand. Its carpentry was 10 times what I personally could accomplish. It was very heavily built. It had drawers AND a lower cabinet. The tank has been on this stand for over a year. There isn't a single joint that looks off on the stand, nor a drawer/door rubbing. Not even any sag (checked with a level). The front central brace is purely looks, as the wood has shrunken from its original build, there is a gap on the top of the central brace of around 1mm. Obviously it isnt holding weight.










Now, Im not saying any buffet table would work well... but if your already planning on making your own stand, you have enough carpentry skills to examine a piece of furniture and choose if it is strong enough. This thing cost me $40-50 on craigslist. AND he transported it for me (no truck).

Everything aquarium fits in the drawers, and all the EQ fits under the tank. Its roomy enough for a 2217 eheim and reactor and heater and autodosing system. I'm planning on upping the tank size and going with another 2217 eheim under there. It all fits nicely.

Tank is a 38 gal, will be upgraded to a custom 70 gal once I move in a year or so (college student).

James


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## Anubias (Jan 16, 2010)

Yes, most DIY stands are overbuilt. Stay away from particle board and MDF, no water resistance. 
For those of you, like me in seismically active areas, don't forget about lateral bracing - it limits side to side movement. A tank full of water moving side to side exerts a lot of force! Plywood does this really well or x- bracing if your building with parts and if you want an open center use corner braces. 
A 2x4 has no difficulty at all supporting a 55 G tank. My fish room is full of 2x4 stands holding 55G tanks.


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## zavikan (Jan 5, 2009)

I could not begin to imagine an aquarium in an earthquake.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

zavikan said:


> I could not begin to imagine an aquarium in an earthquake.


For run of the mill earthquakes an aquarium rides out the shaking very easily, although some water might slosh out. I had an aquarium on a cheap wrought iron stand years ago, a 40 gallon one as I recall, when a short but intense earthquake hit. (San Jose, CA). I was sitting beside it watching the fish. I tried to stand up and hold it to stop the rocking back and forth, being afraid of my landlady if it spilled. But, I couldn't stop it, since I was rocking too. It was a short quake, so nothing bad happened, other than my nerves being shot. If that had been a really cheap LFS particle board stand I don't know if it would have resisted the racking or not. Serious quakes are another subject, but losing the aquarium is the least serious consequence then.


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## davocean (Oct 11, 2009)

Spot on there.
I think most that haven't experienced earth quakes think every time it happens there's massive damage.
Most of the time it's met w/, "did you just feel that?"
Then like every 10 years or so something hits that is VERY obvious, and if you live close to a fault line probably serious damage that would make your tank very secondary.
So far I've only had a little sloshing water as well, but I am knocking on wood as I type!LOL


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## johnblah (Jan 6, 2010)

My 55 gallon stand is Way overbuilt. Im pretty sure I could plop a compact car on top of it and it wouldn't make a noise. But then again I made it to last years...and Years...so yea. I like it


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