# neverwander's 22 gallon long high-tech iwagumi



## PrimeObsession (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi, it looks like your off to a great start! I like the rock you've selected and you've got a really nice set-up. I'm also a fan of the 22 long... I wish I would have known about that size when I set-up my 20 gal. 

Any plans as far as what your going to stock in there?


----------



## Nastee (May 28, 2015)

Nice!


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

The plan as of right now is a nice shool of threadfin rainbows, some otos, and red cherry shrimp


----------



## kimchilee (Mar 2, 2015)

very nice tank! raise the light a little bit if possible.


----------



## agro (Nov 29, 2013)

kimchilee said:


> very nice tank! raise the light a little bit if possible.


P+ should be fine if he's blasting co2.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

kimchilee said:


> very nice tank! raise the light a little bit if possible.


Thanks! Are you saying add more light, or physically raise the light so its farther away from the water?


----------



## agro (Nov 29, 2013)

What type of outlet you have? Also move the inlet more to the right and out of sight.


----------



## kimchilee (Mar 2, 2015)

agro said:


> P+ should be fine if he's blasting co2.


i don't have a PAR meter, but i did a little test on Current USA SAT+ and Finnex Planted+ before, ran each of them on my 22 gallon tank for couple days with 8 hours photoperiod, i think raise the planted+ light few inches higher from the substrate is not a bad idea. i might be wrong.



neverwander said:


> Thanks! Are you saying add more light, or physically raise the light so its farther away from the water?


physically raise the light, but i might be wrong.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

kimchilee said:


> i don't have a PAR meter, but i did a little test on Current USA SAT+ and Finnex Planted+ before, ran each of them on my 22 gallon tank for couple days with 8 hours photoperiod, i think raise the planted+ light few inches higher from the substrate is not a bad idea. i might be wrong.


I saw you raised yours up, but I couldn't make out what you used to do so. Any suggestions? Also, love your 22. It's really coming along nicely!


----------



## kimchilee (Mar 2, 2015)

neverwander said:


> I saw you raised yours up, but I couldn't make out what you used to do so. Any suggestions? Also, love your 22. It's really coming along nicely!


thanks, going to add more plants to my 22 this week. for finnex planted+, you can try to contact neilshieh for the light risers, or see the link below. i'm still waiting for the finnex 24/7 version light risers.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=828721&highlight=


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

agro said:


> What type of outlet you have? Also move the inlet more to the right and out of sight.


The outlet is the one that comes with the filter, basically a plastic tube with 5 or 6 holes drilled in the side to let the water out. I would move the inlet over if I could, but I ran out of filter tubing. Gonna wait a few weeks, and pick up some glass inflow/outlow and clear tubing.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

Updated original post with this weeks photo. Getting good growth out of HC. Algae has begun to take hold. Reduced lit period and decreased daily fert dose to try to counteract it. Also cut the Eleocharis back so it stands up straight. I like the fact that the tops stick out of the water now. Can't wait for the tank to stabilize so I can get some shrimp and Otos in here to help combat the algae.


----------



## kimchilee (Mar 2, 2015)

impressive growth rate!


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

HELP! Algae Explosion! This red thread algae has taken off and I can't seem to slow down it's growth. I have stopped dosing with ferts altogether and pulled back on CO2. Light period is currently at 8 hours a day. Doing a water change actually made it worse. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to combat this stuff?


----------



## DGarone (Apr 26, 2013)

I think that ceasing fert use is a bad idea. I think reducing light in some way and increasing flow while manually removing algae is the better bet. 

Also, I think that decreasing CO2 is literally the worst thing you could do short of increasing light. I don't think steady overuse of CO2 ever causes algae. Changing and/or inconsistent CO2 is supposedly really bad and can cause algae to grow.

Reducing CO2 and ferts pretty much cancels out the fact that you reduced the light. Might even be worse than if you had left everything the same and increased light.

My understanding is that excess CO2 and ferts are never the problem. Light and flow are. You have to have enough CO2 and ferts to allow your plants to use up whatever light you're providing. If you don't, then algae fills the gap and uses the extra light. 

Extra CO2 and ferts (like via EI dosing) are done to make sure there is enough to allow max use of whatever light you're pumping in. According to Tom Barr, extra ferts do not cause algae.

Lastly, changing so many variables at once will make it way harder to figure out what the problem was and adjust for it.


----------



## zeldar (Jun 24, 2009)

What type of substrate are you using? I hope not controsoil...


----------



## jsarrow (Jun 10, 2008)

HELP! Algae Explosion! This red thread algae has taken off and I can't seem to slow down it's growth. I have stopped dosing with ferts altogether and pulled back on CO2. Light period is currently at 8 hours a day. Doing a water change actually made it worse. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to combat this stuff?

Cut back light to 5hrs/day, keep co2 going and no ferts. May want to backout the tank for 1-2 days as well. The plants will likely be fine.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

DGarone said:


> I think that ceasing fert use is a bad idea. I think reducing light in some way and increasing flow while manually removing algae is the better bet.
> 
> Also, I think that decreasing CO2 is literally the worst thing you could do short of increasing light. I don't think steady overuse of CO2 ever causes algae. Changing and/or inconsistent CO2 is supposedly really bad and can cause algae to grow.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great advice, I'll put it into use as soon as I get home from work.



zeldar said:


> What type of substrate are you using? I hope not controsoil...


I'm using ADA Amazonia



jsarrow said:


> Cut back light to 5hrs/day, keep co2 going and no ferts. May want to backout the tank for 1-2 days as well. The plants will likely be fine.


Thanks. I'm heading out of town for the weekend. If the changes DGarone suggested don't help reduce it by the time I'm back, I may try a blackout to kill off the algae and let me pick it out of the plants.

Thanks again for all your help guys!


----------



## zeldar (Jun 24, 2009)

It looks like you have filamentous diatoms. I fought it in my Edge (check out my journal for some gnarly pics) and changing lights, co2, or ferts doesn't solve the problem. The diatoms are caused by high silicates in the water. You need to figure out what is causing the high silicates in the tank. In my tank it was the soil which was leaking it. Might be the same case with the Aquasoil. I had to end up breaking the tank down and replacing the substrate. Once I switched to an inert substrate (Eco complete) I haven't seen one speck of diatoms. Good luck, I feel your pain as that algae just chokes the plants out and basically kills them.


----------



## DGarone (Apr 26, 2013)

Woah woah woah there. Haha. I appreciate the vote of confidence, but you might want to wait for some more responses and do some additional research before acting on my screed. Although I'm relatively sure about the basics of what I said, I'm still learning and f up all the time.

I think that when many of us, if not most, see a problem in our tanks, we want to immediately act as if time is of the essence. I think that's how bad mistakes that compound the problem can be made. That algae won't immediately kill everything and hasty actions might make it worse.

I think it's worth taking a little bit of time to feel out many options and lots of advice and then make a carefully informed decision.

I currently have a little bit of algae on my carpet and I really don't know what to do. It can be so hard. I'm trying to make small adjustments slowly over time to see if I can fix it without sabotaging everything.



neverwander said:


> Thanks for the great advice, I'll put it into use as soon as I get home from work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

Haha. Fair enough! I just hate seeing this tank that I've been planning for months start getting so nasty looking within 2 weeks of setting it up XP


----------



## Sub1117 (Sep 21, 2014)

I agree, I think you should keep the co2 optimal as well as keeping the ferts up while dialing the light period down a bit. Do this slowly, so maybe 30 minutes every week? I'm not sure, but I think the problem is flow and lighting. Ferts and co2 do not cause algae but rather in my experience helps prevent it. I suggest manually removing the algae with a brush or your fingers and then adjusting your lighting and flow slowly until your tank balances out. Investing in a UV sterilizer doesn't hurt either, but it's definitely not needed.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

Aaand I just realized I forgot to purchase a drop checker. Knew I was forgetting something


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

So I did a bunch of research last night, and the general consensus is that excess fertilizer is the cause of algae blooms. So to try and combat this, I'm not going to add in any ferts, and increase the CO2 so the plants can use up the excess more rapidly. I've also done a 60% waterchange. Hopefully this helps.


----------



## zeldar (Jun 24, 2009)

Please research filamentous diatoms. Trust me, stopping ferts will not stop this type of algae. 

I tried everything for 2 months to get it to go away. Stopped ferts, upped co2, Twinstar, UV sterilizer, excel, h2o2. Nothing made a dent. Switched substrates and haven't seen any diatoms since. It looks like your tank has been running about a month? That is the exact time I got my diatom explosion. I was manually removing all I could daily and it grew back the next day about 2" long. This stuff sucks...

It might be worth buying a silicate test kit to confirm. Put some of your Amazonia in a cup and add DI water to see if silicates are coming from the substrate.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

I believe you are correct zeldar. This stuff is diatoms. I don't think it's from the soil though, as I feel that would be a major issue, and pretty much every professional uses this stuff. More than likely it's from the tap water. Apparently silicate compounds are frequently added to water supplies. I need to look into methods of removing them


----------



## BioHouse (Jan 30, 2010)

Go get some amano shrimps?


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

Yeah, I'm planning on picking up some this week, along with some Otos


----------



## DGarone (Apr 26, 2013)

Some pretty top notch planted tank guys seem to think that over fertilizing is not really a thing in planted tanks if you do regular water changes. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111658


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

DGarone said:


> Some pretty top notch planted tank guys seem to think that over fertilizing is not really a thing in planted tanks if you do regular water changes.


I could definitely see it as not being a huge issue, but when I was doing my research I delved into the scientific side of it and read up on what causes algae blooms in nature, and it is a large combination of factors, one of which is an over-abundance of fertilizers in the water, usually from run-off from farms. Particularly phosphates seem to be the big algae producer. So if your ferts don't have a lot of phosphates in them, go ahead! If they do, be careful with it.

Either way, these diatoms I'm having issues with are caused mainly by excess silicates, which are added into the water supply where I live. I gotta find a way to pull them out. Thinking of doing Phos-Zorb or some similar product.


----------



## Sub1117 (Sep 21, 2014)

I find that diatoms usually go away with time as your tank balances out. No need for third party chemicals or cures.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

Sub1117 said:


> I find that diatoms usually go away with time as your tank balances out. No need for third party chemicals or cures.


My main concern right now is that they are choking the hell out of the HC. I'm removing as much as I can, but I have to be careful cause the HC hasn't really had a chance to root yet, so it can be pulled up super easily.


----------



## zeldar (Jun 24, 2009)

Have you thought about getting a RODI unit if you are sure its from the water?


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

I've thought about it. I talked to one of the people at my LFS, and they said the water here is terrible. But I can get 10 gallons of RODI water delivered to my apartment for around $20, which would last me 2 weeks. The cheaper RODI units cost at least $160. Plus the filter replacements are like $80 a set. Not sure if that's worth the investment.


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

neverwander said:


> Haha. Fair enough! I just hate seeing this tank that I've been planning for months start getting so nasty looking within 2 weeks of setting it up XP


We've all been there. High tech ain't easy



Sub1117 said:


> I find that diatoms usually go away with time as your tank balances out. No need for third party chemicals or cures.


I agree with this post. While diatom outbreaks in a new tank usually don't last more than a few months tops they also usually do not manifest themselves into what you are dealing with. Usually it is just a brown dusting.

I have had horrible battles with similar situations... Have you tried spot dosing H2O2 on some of it just to see if it responds? I used to have a brown fuzz kind of like that through DHG / HC and it ruined me. H2O2 would do some damage to it but overall I lost the battle. Never came back once I reset everything (crossing my fingers lol)


----------



## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

neverwander said:


> I've thought about it. I talked to one of the people at my LFS, and they said the water here is terrible. But I can get 10 gallons of RODI water delivered to my apartment for around $20, which would last me 2 weeks. The cheaper RODI units cost at least $160. Plus the filter replacements are like $80 a set. Not sure if that's worth the investment.


Wal Mart usually has a station where you can get RO water for cheap

My advice though is to keep up on the ferts / co2, manually remove as much as possible, spot treat with h2o2 or excel, and do a 50% WC every 3rd day

It will get better


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

dru said:


> Wal Mart usually has a station where you can get RO water for cheap
> 
> My advice though is to keep up on the ferts / co2, manually remove as much as possible, spot treat with h2o2 or excel, and do a 50% WC every 3rd day
> 
> It will get better


THIS

Stay ahead of it! It will be hell but it should get better. I personally gave up after spending too much time fighting my tank. Threw away a huge HC carpet. It was heartbreaking and very very stressful after all the work I put in. The sooner you start really trying to save it the better off you will be. The HC can bounce back if you give it a chance.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

Left the tank alone for a week, doing no water changes and keeping the ferts and CO2 steady. Pulled out as much of the algae and diatoms by hand as I could. Finally started to see a slow in their growth. Did a 20% waterchange over the weekend and trimmed the HC back. Also relocated the filter inlet to actually be in the flow from the outlet. 

There's still a bit of diatom left in the carpet, but I can't get it out by hand without risking pulling up the carpet. The tank seems to have finally finished cycling, so I'm planning on picking up some Amano shrimp and Otos this week to help with the cleanup.


----------



## Sub1117 (Sep 21, 2014)

It's looking like it's getting better :thumbsup:


----------



## PortalMasteryRy (Oct 16, 2012)

if you don't have shrimp then get some platys and they will clean it for you while you figure out what happened.


----------



## neverwander (Aug 6, 2011)

I've got a powerhead and drop checker arriving today, as well as a silicate test kit. There are currently quite a few dead spots that I'm hoping the powerhead can help rectify.Plus, I'll be able to actually figure out what amount of CO2 I should be dosing, cause I've just been guessing up 'til now. And the silicate test should help me figure out whether the source lies in my tap water or in the tank. Hoping to get this thing all cleared up by next week.


----------



## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

With the addition of the power head I would place the in / out flow from the canister on the same side and place the power head on the opposite side to help with return flow. 

This is how I have my 20 long setup and there aren't any dead spots


----------

