# New tank! Native fish biotope (hopefully)



## Soil

Interesting idea!

I am working on a similardesign as well and I think your design looks like it will provide nice filtration 

I do think that you should put 2-3 or so stacked boxes in the "filter area", pretty much like a canister filter. The lower box could have bioballs for easy waterflow, and the top box gravel to plant in. The sponge to the far right is great to catch particales trying to get into your pump. You would need some kind of grid in the bottom of the top box, but this way its easy to pick them up and clean if they clog.

If you manage to get a good enough flow your emersed plants are gonna have a blast!


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## TheRiverRat

Sweet freebie, a stream tank with some of those hillstream loaches and bamboo shrimp would be real cool lookin.


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## TheRiverRat

Just saw you said native fish biotope! Are you planning on putting some darters and minnows in it?


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## calebkraft

yep, I want to keep to small things. Darters, minnows,skulpin, as many bugs as I can find, etc. 

We have some very beautiful darters and similar type fish here I'm hoping to find. We have niangua darters which can be very beautiful, but they're a bit scarce. 

I really wish there were catfish that could stay small enough for this tank (1-2 inches). a "slender madtom"(Notorus Exilis) would be cool, they look like micro catfish and they're actually venemous.


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## TheRiverRat

It is amazing how awesome looking some of those darters are. I have caught a few rainbow darters seining on the river in my day. And a madtom would fill that small cat void, make a great bait for smallmouth too! Would be sweet to see some bugs in there to and watch them develop into adults. Ill be watching to see what happens with this tank. I have always wanted to create a stream environment!


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## devilduck

What are you going to do with the turtle? What type of turtle is it?


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## seuadr

are you suggesting a power head alone or are you going to have a pump feeding it?


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## calebkraft

I'm imagining one of those power heads that has an intake I could extend. I haven't done much research yet, but it seems like I've seen them before. 

If I kept the intake lower than the power head, it shouldn't stress the impeller motor much.


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## xaqdaddy

*Noturus are awesome*

Used to have a couple. Wish I hadnt gotten rid of them.


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## calebkraft

I'm thinking something like one of these









but I can extend that intake across the tank.


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## seuadr

calebkraft said:


> I'm imagining one of those power heads that has an intake I could extend. I haven't done much research yet, but it seems like I've seen them before.
> 
> If I kept the intake lower than the power head, it shouldn't stress the impeller motor much.


 gotcha!

I thought you might be suggesting just an open ended power head and was thinking "how is he going to force it through the media" roud:


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## calebkraft

cool local fish

Green sided darter









rainbow darter:










banded sculpin









and slender madtom









I intend to have crawfish as well. I think if I get them in there when they are babies (easy to find here), that they'll do less damage to the plants. 

I won't even begin to list the massive amounts of inverts and insects I intend to gather. Lets just say "all of them"


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## scapegoat

that rainbow darter is incredible looking.

i need to see what i can find around south east PA


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## calebkraft

They are pretty amazing. THey don't look quite that bright all year around, but even when they're less colorful they are pleasing to the eye.


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## scapegoat

how do you plan to catch these fish?


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## calebkraft

We go wading ALL THE TIME. For many of them you can literally scoop them up if you're fast enough. a handheld net will cover the rest.


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## Wy Renegade

I know our local sculpins are very high oxygen demand fish and are found in very fast/cold water. From my research keeping one of them would require a chiller. I'm not sure about the variety you have locally, but it would be worth some research, as they may not do well in warmer waters.


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## Big O

*Very cool idea*

I have 2 Jackson Darter's. Not as colorful but what they lack in color, they make up in personality.


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## calebkraft

Sculpin are generally a colder water fish. However, I'm pretty sure I've seen them in the section of the James River I'm going to be mimicking. However, I could have just seen some kind of mottled darter and assumed it was a sculpin. The water definitely gets warm there, we wade/swim there all the time. 

If they aren't there, they wont get caught and put in my tank!


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## hydrophyte

That would be pretty cool if you could keep sculpin in there. The ones that I have seen around here were in cold trout stream water and I think they would be dead pretty quick at room temperature. 

Darters would be great in a tank like this.

I have a concept in mind for a similar setup with riparium plants. I was pondering a real short and broad tank with a substrate of the prettiest rocks that I can find.


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## amyhartofey

I am so jealous of you getting this tank for free, it's incredible!  This is exactly the sort of project I wish I could be doing. Aside from getting the free tank, do you have an estimate on how much this project is going to set you back? Itemised if possible? (If you don't want to say, that's cool)


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## otisinhotville

Take a look at the following website. It has some good ideas for a stream tank. http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design


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## calebkraft

Yes, that system is almost exactly what I was imagining. The only difference is that I will be adding a "marsh" area for some filtration instead of just the sponges. 

I am starting to think about light now. I wanted to put this in an east facing window, but my wife wasn't too excited about that. Looks like I'll need to build some lights! 
Again, I'm thinking super low budget here. I'll probably do 5 cfl bulbs in a custom reflector. Possibly two timers so that I can simulate a day cycle. Not totally sure though.


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## All your base

calebkraft said:


> I'm thinking something like one of these
> 
> 
> but I can extend that intake across the tank.


I would not recommend extending the intake. Instead, put the powerhead itself under your sponge in the compartment at the far right end in your diagram and use vinyl hose or PVC pipe on the output side to get the water to the other end of the tank. Besides being better for the pump (small centrifugal pumps really don't do well with restricted intakes) it means you can hide the ugly thing under the sponge where no one will see it, instead of having it hanging in plain site in the display portion of the tank.


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## calebkraft

That's a good idea to put the powerhead in the filter area. While I don't think it matters which end I extend (restricted flow is restricted flow), at least I can hide them!


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## All your base

calebkraft said:


> (restricted flow is restricted flow)


I know it seems like that's the case logically but from the pump's perspective it's definitely not true. Restricting the intake causes pressure inside the pump to drop, which can lead to cavitation and really poor performance. The performance drop might not be an issue for you but the pump will probably not last as long.

And at any rate it's nice to hide the pump.


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## kingjombeejoe

If you use a larger diameter pipe for an extension, it should make up for the restriction you might have to go a few sizes up. You can also do something like this







it will pull the water through the filter and make flow across the tank but the flow will bounce back eventually and create more of a whirlpool. I'm not sure if that's what you want.


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## DrakeScree

Is there an advantage to keeping everything inside of the tank like that? Why not use the 10g you got for this and just run two hoses in?


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## tippeecanoe

Very cool idea! I'll be watching this one develop too.


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## calebkraft

DrakeScree said:


> Is there an advantage to keeping everything inside of the tank like that? Why not use the 10g you got for this and just run two hoses in?


Tidyness, space, and safeguard. If I do the 10 gallon as a sump, then I have to worry about what happens if one direction fails. I wouldn't want either to drain into the other causing an overflow. It is a small problem that most salt water folks deal with, but I can avoid it so easily because I actually WANT a marshy area in my tank. Makes it all rather convenient.


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## calebkraft

kingjombeejoe said:


> If you use a larger diameter pipe for an extension, it should make up for the restriction you might have to go a few sizes up. You can also do something like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it will pull the water through the filter and make flow across the tank but the flow will bounce back eventually and create more of a whirlpool. I'm not sure if that's what you want.


that won't give me a directional flow at all. It really has to be one end to the other.


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## kingjombeejoe

to have the flow in one direction only you would have to have exactly the same amount or more suction than flow from the other side of the tank. I'm going to do some more searching on the subject. I can't wait to see what you end up with.


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## calebkraft

kingjombeejoe said:


> to have the flow in one direction only you would have to have exactly the same amount or more suction than flow from the other side of the tank. I'm going to do some more searching on the subject. I can't wait to see what you end up with.


Yes, that is why you have the inlet (or exhaust) from your power head on the opposite side of the tank. It literally balances itself. 

Here's an example of what others have done for the same effect. http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design


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## kamikazi

use that loach build but instead of two round sponge covered intakes on one end, use a wall of hamburger matten on the intake end. Then basically have a modified hamburger mattenfilter (see thread below)
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=145084&page=24


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## calebkraft

Just daydreaming for when the snow melts.










I imagine it will have a ton more vegitation than this. 









Here you can see the shallow end for stronger current. I don't imagine I'll spend the money to put enough pumping power to get a ton of current, the shallow section should help. 









And finally, another diagram of how I think it will work. I know this filter system will work, I currently do similar in my HOB filters and the plants grow like crazy.


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## mnemenoi

I really like the look of that flow and I have seen a local ADA tank drilled and hard piped for something very similar. My worry might be that many natives are jumpers and without a cover...


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## calebkraft

It has been too cold here to go collecting materials yet, so I've been slowly putting this together. 

-So far, I have reinforced an old stereo cabinet to use as a stand.
-purchased a 310gph pond pump (I don't think this will be strong enough for any real current on its own, but it should be ok for filtering, might have to add a powerhead)
-put together the pvc from one end to the other. I plan on hiding/burying this as much as possible. 
-installed the baffles for the natural filter/planter
-decide to put this huge piece of driftwood in there that I pulled out of the river. It's ok, its the same river I'll be pulling my rocks from.


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## shift

Looking good! i'm stocked to see this develop


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## Clemsons2k

Looks very promising! I would look into getting a wider stand though, probably not good for the glass to overhang that much on either side.


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## calebkraft

IT GOT WARM









rocks rocks rocks rocks rocks









a few plants,mud, bugs, and a handful of baby crawdads.










beginning to place rocks









more rocks


--- got too excited and forgot to take pictures for a while --









filled and muddy. Now to let it settle and add the finishing touches, like building up more plant areas and stuff.


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## ReluctantHippy

Awesome tank and design. Looking forward to seeing it settled.


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## shift

Looking good. Keep the updates coming!


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## Lia

That tank looks great but darters will jump out of any open top tank .


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## Saxtonhill

Love the rocks and the driftwood! Keep those updates coming!


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## calebkraft

Lia said:


> That tank looks great but darters will jump out of any open top tank .


Hrm. I will have to put them back in the wild if that ends up being true. I've played with them many times and never had one jump, even when cornered though. 

It will be a few weeks before any fish go in here. Everything needs to settle and establish a little bit.


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## calebkraft

The tank is clearing up well. 

Here's a tank shot









Here's some mayfly nymphs. There are several of these in here, they swim around a lot and look really cool. 









Here's a mayfly that just transitioned to its adult form. He will most likely be fed to the toad if I decide to go over and catch him. 










There are tons of other tiny things in the muck, as well as a few young crawdads. They're hard to catch a good photo of though, so I'll have to get them later.


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## 10gallonplanted

You're go a wake up to a big old dragon fly flying around your room lol. But very cool tank.


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## Lia

calebkraft said:


> Hrm. I will have to put them back in the wild if that ends up being true. I've played with them many times and never had one jump, even when cornered though.
> 
> It will be a few weeks before any fish go in here. Everything needs to settle and establish a little bit.


 
I had brown ,mud, swamp and orange throat and al jumpers but maybe not all types jump.


Have you considered orange spotted or dollar sunfish , your tank would be great for either one.


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## scapegoat

anyone else terrified of the tank breaking since it isnt fully supported by that stand?

great looking tank otherwise. love the natural appearance


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## rah-bop

Yeah. None of the four corners are supported. I worry that it's only a matter of time before this thing explodes all over the place. But it's a beautiful time bomb!


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## ReluctantHippy

Love the naturalness. And I wouldn't worry about the very ends not being supported. Most professionally built stand only support the outer rim and none of the center; Glass is amazingly strong.


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## rah-bop

Tanks are built to be supported by the four corners. Beyond that tidbit, I don't know what kind of physics are at work here. Hopefully it won't be a problem!


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## calebkraft

I would prefer a stand that supports the tank fully. I plan to build one at some point in the near future. Most likely the day after this fails completely and ruins my floors. 

That being said, the glass is nearly a half inch thick. The tiny overhang should be fine.

I wasn't excited about fish till I got it all together and the water cleared up. Now I would love to have bluegill or something but they get too big. 

I'll check out those orange spotted and dollar sunfish.

I also need to remove the water lettuce, it isn't native to here. I'll pull it out when I find some local floaters to replace it.


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## scapegoat

rah-bop said:


> Tanks are built to be supported by the four corners. Beyond that tidbit, I don't know what kind of physics are at work here. Hopefully it won't be a problem!


tanks without a rim require support throughout the entire base.

rimmed tanks should be supported along the rim. i think you'd have issues if you only supported a tank at the four corners. ultimately though, the weight is transferred to the four corners.


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## scapegoat

calebkraft said:


> I would prefer a stand that supports the tank fully. I plan to build one at some point in the near future. Most likely the day after this fails completely and ruins my floors.
> 
> That being said, the glass is nearly a half inch thick. The tiny overhang should be fine.
> 
> I wasn't excited about fish till I got it all together and the water cleared up. Now I would love to have bluegill or something but they get too big.
> 
> I'll check out those orange spotted and dollar sunfish.
> 
> I also need to remove the water lettuce, it isn't native to here. I'll pull it out when I find some local floaters to replace it.


you're right that it will probably be fine, but you do have a lot of weight in there. I'd have rather seen some patience and a proper stand first  but i'll let it slide for now :biggrin:

how did you go about collecting everything?


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## Tsartetra

*Darters!*

I have either a rainbow or greenside darter I picked up from an LFS (PetSmiths, no longer open) and it does VERY well in my 44 gallon corner tank (covered). It's got a power head with a fair amount of current, rocks but he really likes to climb around in the Brazilian Pennywort I have at the top of the tank (wrapped around a sycamore branch) because he has figured out that is where much of the food ends up. Really fun guy to watch and attractive as well. Only about 2 and 1/2 inches at the moment.


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## rowdaddy

scapegoat said:


> how did you go about collecting everything?


First, he filled out all the necessary paper work for collecting from his local DNR, etc.

Then, he caughtz dem. 

I am Rowdaddy. 
SC Aquaria


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## ReluctantHippy

rowdaddy said:


> First, he filled out all the necessary paper work for collecting from his local DNR, etc.
> 
> Then, he caughtz dem.
> 
> I am Rowdaddy.
> SC Aquaria


Hahaha. Exactly. And never say otherwise. 

I paid $5k for my local permits...; live capture permit, live transport permit, native species exhibition permit, aquaculture permit, and fees for a government inspection of my "aquaculture facilities". The netting is the easy part 

Hope your state is a bit more lenient


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## shrimpNewbie

Really cool so far I look forward to the progression


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## calebkraft

As for collection, so far I only have rocks and plants. (the crawdads kept escaping, so they're back in the wild). So no legal issue there. 

As far as any fish that I may end up with, well... I have a fishing license. 

Or maybe I wont catch my darters live, maybe I'll buy them online... yeah, that's the ticket. 

Honestly though, in this area things are very lenient. I'm not setting up some massive display somewhere like bass pro. I've got maybe 30 gallons of water and I may end up with less than 10 fish. 


If I don't like the all local, all natural look, I think jungle val would look so pretty in this long tank with a current.


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## calebkraft

Made a quick video of the tank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmsOKYTFzIs


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## shift

Nice video. It's looking awesome


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## Bruce_S

Good-lookin' setup!

I like the humorous touch of the fishing lure tangled in the overhead branches, LOL!

~Bruce


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## calebkraft

Thanks! Yeah, that lure came in with one of the shovel fulls of mud and gravel. The hook was already gone. I thought it made the whole thing just a bit more authentic. 

I'd ideally like MUCH MORE GREEN, but I tend to go a little overboard (for those of you who have seen my other tanks). 

I can't wait to really get this thing teaming with life! Still trying to find some pretty small fish to go in it. Someone suggested the dollar sunfish which looks ok, but I can't have a 6 inch long fish in there. Maybe 4 inches tops. 

I'm still going to try some darters, but as others have said, I may have a jumping issue. I may just have to go with some small minows or something. 

well, and a madtom or two. Definitely a madtom or two.


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## scapegoat

I never said I cared whether or not it was legally done... more interested in how it was done, and how you chose a site.

I've been thinking of getting a fishing license so I could legally catch "bait". but was wonder how the best, for the fish, the environment, and for us, way to do so would be.


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## calebkraft

oh, the _process_.

The area I chose for rock/mud collection is on some private property of friends of ours. This section of the river keeps changing (moves several feet a year). I manually picked up the big rocks, making sure to move around a lot so as not to just destroy one spot. The mud/gravel was about 3 shovel fulls. 

For fish/bugs I will manually be wading with a net in my hand. Optimal for catching things like darters would be seining, but I just enjoy wading around and grabbing things. I may also take a large jar to pick up some mud/plant matter for new invertebrate life. 

The idea of putting on a mask and just floating down the river looking for cool stuff is so pleasant. Like the best fish store ever.


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## Bercey

Any updates on this tank?


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## calebkraft

Yup, it is still going strong. 

You can see a bunch of pictures and a video

I've figured out a few things that don't work, and a few things that do, but it is all still just a big experiment.


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## EntoCraig

Awesome Tank! I love tanks specifically inspired by natural biotopes. Looking forward to more pics/videos with fish.


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## Benboone

Hey I realize this post is pretty old, but I was just looking up some ideas for a tank I have that I am doing basically the exact same thing to as this, and just wanted to ask how it all turned out? Maybe after all these years it's still running? Lol


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## Jmcdaniel0

Benboone said:


> Hey I realize this post is pretty old, but I was just looking up some ideas for a tank I have that I am doing basically the exact same thing to as this, and just wanted to ask how it all turned out? Maybe after all these years it's still running? Lol



I agree! Please tell me this tank is up and running.


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