# Plants using all the water hardness



## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

Well my tap ph is 7.4 and the Kh is 6.5ppm.  I never do water changes. My water is crystal clear and ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are 0. The problem is my plants suck all the hardness out of the water and my ph drops to 6 (but maybe lower since the test stops at 6). Whats the best way to keep the hardness? Also there is 50w of light over this 38 and I dose nothing.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Ryzilla said:


> Whats the best way to keep the hardness?


I wish I knew to help. However this made me laugh.


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

You can add Epsom salt, and CACL2 to up your GH, I would say around a 1/2 tsp. Epsom and 3/4 tsp CACL2. Not doing water changes is why you have no GH. Are the plants doing OK, no NO3 could be the problem as well, even with very little light the plants still need some NO3


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

bigstick120 said:


> You can add Epsom salt, and CACL2 to up your GH, I would say around a 1/2 tsp. Epsom and 3/4 tsp CACL2. Not doing water changes is why you have no GH. Are the plants doing OK, no NO3 could be the problem as well, even with very little light the plants still need some NO3



All plants are healthy and look great, the only plant that isnt super happy is the oriental sword. They hygro grows alot 2/3 of the backround is giant hygro and the 1/3 is bolblitis. The crypts in the foreground are also very happy. The java windelov grows like a normal windelv. I dont want to up the GH I want to sustain it. Do you think Excel dosing will avoid the stripping of the hardness? Maybe ill buy a 4L. My angel pair is also very happy and spawn every other week like clockwork.



fshfanatic said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Ryzilla
> Whats the best way to keep the hardness?
> 
> I wish I knew to help. However this made me laugh.


Atleast you didnt respond, "with viagra"


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Excel wont do anything to up the GH of the tank, the only way I know how is what I recommended, you said you dont dose, so what you could do is dose what I recomended. I think that will keep your GH levels constent if you break it up into smaller doses


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

you dont think that the carbon taken up through every other day excel dosing will prevent the plants taking up the hardness from the tap water


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I thought about it...


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

fshfanatic said:


> I thought about it...



Use Cialis. My dad calls it the weekender......ewwwwwwwww.......


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## cornhusker (Jan 26, 2005)

*Hardness*

You know what they say,"if it aint broke don't fix it" . i would continue doing just what works good for you and leave well enough alone.:thumbsup: regards,cornhusker


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## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

From what I understand, some plants can pull carbon out of carbonates, I believe corkscrew vals to be one, I have never heard about hygro or crypts doing this however. 

Mrbelvedere. . . . The weekender. . . .that is funny! I bet the look on your face the first time you heard him say that was priceless!


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

hey remember there are some kids here... 

And how much plant mass do you have in your tank to actually decrease your hardness?!!?! I have hard water, and it seems like most shrimp like soft water... Geeze.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

sandiegoryu said:


> hey remember there are some kids here...
> 
> And how much plant mass do you have in your tank to actually decrease your hardness?!!?! I have hard water, and it seems like most shrimp like soft water... Geeze.


I have 2/3 of my 38g's backround in giant hygo. And the rest is masive bolbitis and windelov plants. Some crypts and anubias in the front.


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

Ryzilla said:


> you dont think that the carbon taken up through every other day excel dosing will prevent the plants taking up the hardness from the tap water


If you need to up the hardness a bit use the Epsome salts for Mg and ther are several sources for Ca. You dont have to add it every day but a pinch once a week should do fine if this is really working for you.

I'd be supprised if you didn't have signs of leaf curling on the Hygro with no Ca or Mg. Not to mention no NO3 or PO4. I have added all in moderation to a low light 10g with no ill effects.

My big tank is driving the plants to grow fairly quick and without maintaining the hardness it is quickly depleated, so the plants suffer.

Good luck sounds like a great low maintence setup.


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## defishfan (Feb 16, 2006)

I had the same problem when I first started my 15gallon. I was going through almost 1/4 tsp of baking soda a day, just trying to keep the carbonate up. What I ended up doing was letting the hardness and pH drop, and doing frequent small water changes. Eventually, whatever was chewing through the carbonate ran out, and it's been fine for months. Recently, I got a bit behind on water changes, and it dropped back again, so I'm playing catch-up right now. Hope this helps some.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Hmmm. Maybe I'm missing something, but are you concerned with the hardness (GH, Mg, Ca) or with your carbonates (KH and dropping pH)? It seems like the pH drop was your bigger concern, yet most of the posts target a problem with the GH, which I'm not sure you stated to be a problem.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

BSS said:


> Hmmm. Maybe I'm missing something, but are you concerned with the hardness (GH, Mg, Ca) or with your carbonates (KH and dropping pH)? It seems like the pH drop was your bigger concern, yet most of the posts target a problem with the GH, which I'm not sure you stated to be a problem.


Thank you for the clarification BSS. I am talking about the carbonates. Wow, I cant believe this post has gone on for this long without me catching on to the confusion. Great catch BSS. YES IT IS THE CARBONATES!!!! Whewwwww!! I feel better now. How do I keep my the plants from chewing through all the carbonates?


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## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

this dosent do anything but treat the problem, you could add crushed coral or oyster shells to your filter.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

lumpyfunk said:


> this dosent do anything but treat the problem, you could add crushed coral or oyster shells to your filter.


what about adding excel?


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

Mmmm... I seem to recall a thread in recent memory (actually within the last few days) of the bad idea of adding shells/coral to the filter. Seems that it's hard to control.

Ahh..kH. Baking soda. Not too much though.

Crypts will strip carbon out of the water column. They also don't always take well to excel.

I've also gotta add, if you're managing to get angels to spawn like clockwork without waterchanges, you've hit upon the perfect setup.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

How long is it taking for your KH to drop? And, why do you suspect the plants are doing it? In my case, I had both KH and GH dropping to 0 over the course of just a few weeks. I eventually tracked it down to an acid source in my tank. I had some driftwood that was leaching some form of strong acid(s), which were combining with the carbonates and such and 'eating' both my KH and GH.

I'd suggest taking samples of stuff from your tank (e.g. a little substrate, other decor pieces), placing them into tupperware containers along with a control sample of just water and then recording any KH/GH changes over the next week or so.

My suspicion is that something is leaching an acid...unless of course this is happening over quite a long time, in which case, it could be the plants.

Just something to consider,
Brian.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

BSS,

I have maylasian root wood in my tank. That really hard stuff that sinks real fast. I have it in all my tanks. Only in my lowtech which only recieves roughly quarterly water changes does the wated read 0 Kh. In my shrimp tank which is a 10g low tech which recieves weekly water changes the Kh stays the same as the tap. I use flourite in all my tanks. I believe the plants are doing the stripping.


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

I had a 10 gallon planted with mostly crypts. It was on about the same schedule as my big tank - w/c once a week. I tested it one day and was very surprised to see the kh was almost 0. The large tank read at 7 or 8. Doookay. Now, I do not use real wood after having problems with it rotting on me once, so it can't be blamed for that, and this tank wasn't set up to look exactly natural (it still has that frosted peack epoxy coated stuff in it, and at the time had a lego pirate ship as well). I *think* I added a smidge of baking soda to bring it up a bit.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Ryzilla said:


> I have maylasian root wood in my tank. That really hard stuff that sinks real fast. .... I use flourite in all my tanks.


Not to scare you, but that's the same set up as I had! 

I do think I just got from "freak" wood though, as very few others seem to have reported a similar problem. I've now got some maponi (sp?) and haven't had it recur.

Do you have multiple pieces of wood in the tank? Can you remove them one at a time to see what happens? They likely have plants strapped too them, so you might have to relocate to another tank. Sorry if it sounds like I'm carrying on about this one, but I refused to really address mine for over a year, and it always kept my tank 'different' from the norm on the boards. So, I'd hate to see you wrestle with the same problem. But, since it is only in the one tank.

Regarding plants stripping the KH, I have read that vals will do this (as suggested above). But if the change in noticeable in weeks and not in months, then, IMO, the plants aren't capable of this. If so, we'd be reading about it more frequently.

My thoughts...
Brian.


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## alohamonte (Jul 25, 2006)

To increase water hardness, add some coral/shells. They'll slowly dissolve the calcium into the water column. Use your test kit to determine the appropriate amount.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Baking Soda.

I like my tank set up, but had some wood also 'eating' my kh, and my water was low in kh already. As soon as I started to add a little baking soda, things straigtend right out... the wood stopped leaching eventually, and the raised kh from baking soda kept my ph from droping in the mean-time.

It doesn't take much either. I made a 1 cup water mix with about 1 teaspoon baking soda, and then added just a couple drops each day to the tank until things were where I wanted them.


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

> I have maylasian root wood in my tank. That really hard stuff that sinks real fast. .... I use flourite in all my tanks.





> Not to scare you, but that's the same set up as I had!


Hmmmm, this is interesting. I had some Malaysian driftwood in my tank as well, a couple of pretty large pieces, and I distinctly remember that at one point I was having the same problem. The tank also seemed to be an algae magnet and I never _could_ get rid of the stuff. Finally in frustration I took everything out and bleach dipped every plant in it (pearlweed does _not_ like bleach ,) and elected not to put the driftwood back. No more prob, and it seems like I've finally (knock on er, driftwood,) gotten this beast balanced.

Mind you, the KH is still between 1-2, but at least it _stays_ there without me tinkering with it.


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