# Beginning a Sulawesi tank *update 4/21*



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Wow. This is a seriously ambitious project. Look at all those plumbing fittings. :eek5:

That's a great hardscape man. I wonder why you don't see more like that. It looks very natural.

An obvious guess for plants would be crypts, although I understand that most of the high pH crypts are from Sri Lanka, not Indonesia. Somebody here ought to be able to suggest some good authentic plants.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

billb said:


> ...and my wife has informed me it will be my last! Well, I better make it worth while then.


haha. i love this. those dang wives!! :biggrin:


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

Really fantastic scape. How exactly were you planning on growing mosses? Attached to additional rocks, or are you planning on adding driftwood? 

You're the first person I've seen using Malaya. Very interesting.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Hydrophyte!
First - thanks again for the stand design! It's great.

Second - you are a good choice to help me with a plant selection question. I have read that the Sulawesi lakes do have reeds and other plants that grow out of the water in shrimp habitat. I was thinking about Giant Hair grass as I have some. Do you have any other suggestions? I would like they plants to be able to access atmospheric CO2 instead of pumping it into the tank at high levels. Don't want to lower the pH or gas the shrimp.

Any thoughts?

Bill


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

FrostyNYC said:


> Really fantastic scape. How exactly were you planning on growing mosses? Attached to additional rocks, or are you planning on adding driftwood?
> 
> You're the first person I've seen using Malaya. Very interesting.


There are a couple folks in So Cal with Malaya. In my case, I knew I wouldn't be looking for intensive plant growth but wanted a good substrate. The brown color also looks good with the rock and sand. There will be a lot of substrate visible so i didn't want to try and blend/hide the black Aqua Soil. 

As for the moss, I will attach it to small rocks and fit it into a few crevices. 

Bill


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## vca2004 (Sep 7, 2009)

Love, love, love the way the sand and rocks make the bottom look like a river system roud:! Looking forward to seeing the rest of the scape.

Hope you're gonna have lots of luck with your Sulawesis, so you can sell some to me in a few months :biggrin:.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

billb said:


> Hydrophyte!
> First - thanks again for the stand design! It's great.
> 
> Second - you are a good choice to help me with a plant selection question. I have read that the Sulawesi lakes do have reeds and other plants that grow out of the water in shrimp habitat. I was thinking about Giant Hair grass as I have some. Do you have any other suggestions? I would like they plants to be able to access atmospheric CO2 instead of pumping it into the tank at high levels. Don't want to lower the pH or gas the shrimp.
> ...


There are quite a few pretty cool plants you could put in there. It might be more difficult to find stuff that will grow emersed and which is also authentic to the habitat. Would you be willing to fill the tank to just 1/3 to 1/2 full? You could do a riparium type setup, or plant taller emergent stuff right in the bottom. It looks like you have everything hard-plumbed already and it might be difficult to have the tank half-empty(?).

You know for underwater plants needle-leaf Java fern might be a good one to start with. You might want to cut back on the lighting for this non-CO2 and high pH setup.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> There are quite a few pretty cool plants you could put in there. It might be more difficult to find stuff that will grow emersed and which is also authentic to the habitat. Would you be willing to fill the tank to just 1/3 to 1/2 full? You could do a riparium type setup, or plant taller emergent stuff right in the bottom. It looks like you have everything hard-plumbed already and it might be difficult to have the tank half-empty(?).
> 
> You know for underwater plants needle-leaf Java fern might be a good one to start with. You might want to cut back on the lighting for this non-CO2 and high pH setup.


Java fern would work well!. I suspect I will want to raise the light - both to accomodate emersed growth and to keep the algae in check. This could be a modified riparium. I will most likey just work with a few species as I think it would look more authentic

Thanks for your suggestion



Bill


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

> Well, I am now starting my second scape (not counting a 10 gallon crs tank) and my wife has informed me it will be my last! Well, I better make it worth while then.


lol - my wife said that 4 tanks ago. this looks like it's going to be another great build. can't wait to see it all put together.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

double post - woot!

i just remembered this link. it has some good photos of what you're recreating. 

http://www.planetinverts.com/sulawesi_underwater_photos.html


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

So long as the room air isn't too dry Java fern can work great as an emersed plant too. 

I don't know how authentic it would be, but _Cryptocoryne ciliata_ is another one that will grow happily emersed and likes hard water. You could plant _ciliata_ right in the bottom, or in riparium planters. _C. balansae_--better as an underwater plant--also grows best in hard water


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Those look like some kind of _Vallisneria_ in the link (from that very unpopular Website) that oldpunk78 posted. Vals are also good ones for hard water. I don't know _Vallisneria_ at all really, but the plants in those pictures look like they have very short leaves, with long flower stalks. Something like that would scale nice with your tank.

I like _Vallisneria_. Those lake-bottom pictures resemble the hard water lakes that we have around here, in the springtime, before they fill up with stinky algae.


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## jman (Sep 7, 2009)

Wow. Your tank looks great already with out any plants.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Old Punk - thank you for the link. I have done some searching for info but those pictures are great. 

Hydrophyte, I have some plant lists from some searches and I think they are a species of Val. At any rate, it looks like something with a grass like form would be a good choice.

Bill


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Vals would look good with those substrates you have in there.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Thanks Hydrophyte. Here are some plant species lists from an Indosesian site

Lake Matano

Species Red Data Book Cites
Calophyllum sp. 
Cyperus halpan 
Cyperus pumilus 
Eleocharis atropurpurea 
Eleocharis dulcis 
Eleocharis geniculata 
Eriocaulon longifolium 
Fimbristylis celebica 
Fimbristylis dichotoma 
Fimbristylis schoenoides 
Fuirena umbellata 

Lepironia articulata 
Lycopodium cernuum 
Machaerina disticha 
Najas graminea 
Nepenthes mirabilis 
Nymphoides parvifolia 
Ottelia alismoides 
Ottelia mesenterium 
Panicum repens 
Phragmites karka 
Rhynchospora corymbosa 
Rhynchospora rubra 
Scirpus mucronatus 
Scleria poaeformis 
Utricularia bifida


Lake Towuti
Alternanthera sessilis 
Blyxa auberti 
Colocasia esculenta 
Cyperus compactus 
Cyperus cyperoides 
Eleocharis dulcis 
Fimbristylis celebica 
Fimbristylis dichotoma 
Fimbristylis globulosa 
Ipomoea aquatica 
Lepironia articulata 
Limnocharis flava 
Ludwigia adscendens 
Machaerina disticha 
Monochoria vaginalis 
Najas graminea 
Nepenthes mirabilis 
Nymphoides parvifolia 
Ottelia alismoides 
Ottelia mesenterium 
Paspalum sp. 
Polygonum pulchrum 

Ottelia mesenterium is a cool looking plant that grows in fairly deep water - 1.6 meters in one account I read. Looks like a giant Downoi. 


There are some great pictures of the flora and fauna of the sulawesi lakes at this Japanese Site:

http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia...anaomatano.htm

http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia-sulawesi-danao.htm

http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia...-danaoposo.htm 
http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia-sulawesi-danaomatano.htm


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## telephasic (Sep 29, 2009)

Are you doing anything in terms of fish, or is this strictly going to be a shrimp breeding tank? 

Celebes rainbowfish are easy to find of course. A little harder, but still traded, are the various Celebes ricefish - I suppose the Japanese ricefish wouldn't be the worst stand-ins. 

Probably the most interesting would be a halfbeak though. Cebeles halfbeaks are fairly easy to get in the hobby, and given they don't leave the surface much, my guess is they wouldn't hassle shrimplets much. They tend to like water a bit more acidic, but should do fine in the 7.5-8 range if properly acclimated.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Hi Telephasic,

The halfbeak suggestion is a good one. There are species native to these lakes ( you can see them in one of the pictures in the links above....)

I will wait until I get things going and have a successful colony before deciding to add any fish - at $15+ a pop for these shrimp, that could be expensive snack!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

This is going to be really fun! Subscribed!


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

*A couple changes*

Well I convinced myself that I needed to beef up the rock work a bit. The snails plowed through the sand pretty well so some of the character of the tank was lost. You can follow the furrows to see where they went at night! So, I wanted to add more permanent features and increase the areas for the shrimp to shelter in. There are a few plants and a little moss, mostly to test them in this environment I will add more over time, but this will never be a plant heavy scape

some comparison pics:

Original



























Tweaked














































The new residents like the cave on the right side...



















Some shameless filter shots

the Big Blue filter and cartridge compared to the Ocean Clear cartridge. It's kind of ugly but hey this is in the garage. More filter options and it is definitely less expensive.









The filter system









The manifold. That hose fitting is the best feature of the whole tank, water changes are a breeze.









Final notes:

The water now stays at a pH of 7.2. The ADA malaya is not strong enough to over come all of the crushed coral. I am now doing 5gallons a day with RO water that has been sitting over night in a 5 gallon bucket with some crushed coral sand - pH is about 8.3. this yeilds about 3 gallons and the other two is made up of treated tap water. pH about 8

plenty more to do!

thanks

Bill


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

Very interesting tank, looking forward to seeing this come together. Wish I could keep these guys, but far too po'.


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## jman (Sep 7, 2009)

They say on the ADA website that the Malaya has the strongest acidifying effect of the aquasoils, but I don't think it will last very long with all that crushed coral.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Hey that looks great. Do you have some kind of a schematic of how you did the plumbing? I am assuming you plumbed an easy water change capability into this from the looks of it. 

I also didn't see what pump you are using, did I miss that?


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## dxiong5 (Sep 28, 2008)

Invertz Factory's got some Sulawesi Black Gobies listed. Check those out, might be a good addition to your tank


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

SvenBoogie said:


> Very interesting tank, looking forward to seeing this come together. Wish I could keep these guys, but far too po'.


This tank is fascinating--really different.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Jman - The buffering is not ideal. I did want a substrate that is plant friendly and with regular water changes, I think we are getting a slow rise in pH. The tank is now at 7.3. I want to see this closer to 7.8 though.

Regloh - This is my second closed loop system and I did change some things. The best schematic is on a thread by Scolley. search for Son of Kahuna on this forum and Steve does have a schematic. I can tell you that I use teflon paste instead of tape on the joints when I need threaded connections. I also use solvent more as these joints tend to be leak proof but always have unions and ball valves between each component. I generall create a true union by having a union-ball valve-union inbetween everything. This allows you to remove any peice in the chain with out flooding the place!
Oh - and the pump is a BlueLine Velcocity T3 - I love these, virtually silent and pumps 800 gph at 3' head, 240gph at 24' head height.

dxiong5 - I read the post on the black gobies - pretty cool. I am pretty certain they would love some cardinal snacks how ever. I am keeping this invert only for now

Bill


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> This tank is fascinating--really different.


Thanks, but look who's talking! I have never seen a riparium before and you are the guy who designed the stands I use!

Thanks for the inspirations! 

Bill


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

*function over form*

OK, well I have officially become Sulawesi obsessed. I have been spending sleepless nights scouring forums in many places for information on keeping these beautiful shrimp and learning alot about them, their natural environment, and how they are being kept. So, I have made some changes to the tank that in my opinion detract from it's aesthetic potential but increases the suitability of the tank to house a pile of these critters.

I will probably should start a new thread to discuss my adventures with these shrimp in the invert forum as much of what will occur in the future will be more tank occupant focused as opposed to tank/plant focused.

*The new stuff - d**esigned to increase the pH and decrease the tank nutrient level*
The Malili lake system in Sulawesi has very clean, low nutrient water. They are considered to be an oligotrophic environment (low nutrient). Here is a link to a german site with water parameters
http://www.garnelenhaus.de/pageflip/sulawesi-2008/reisebericht-sulawesi.pdf

*Water Parameters Mantano Lake*
Temperature: 29.5 C
pH: 8.6
gH: 7
kH: 5
Conductivity: 227
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Iron, Copper: 0
Phosphate: 1

*Water Parameters Towuti Lake*
Temperature average: 30 C
- up to 40cm depth: 32 C
- in 300cm depth: 29 C
pH: 8.3
gH: 6
kH: 5-6
Conductivity: 181
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 2
Iron, Copper: 0

pH of both lakes - 8+
Nitrates - zero, no EI dosing in this tank
gH and kH - middle single digits.

So, my pH was around 7.3. I could use my San Diego tap water - and I did at first -as it comes out about 8.2 or so. The problem is my TDS is around 500 and the kH and GH are at least double that found in these lakes.

So, I could just throw in more crushed coral sand to help drive up the pH but it would also drive up the gH and kH - too much surface area. The solution, distilled from much reading, was to use a larger chunk of calcareous rock in the tank, put coral chips or shells in the filter and use 100% RO water stored over night in a bucket with coral chips(pH 8.3, gH 2, kH 2). 
It has worked! My water parameters - kH 4-5; gH 8. The is pH 7.7 and slowly rising with each water change as the Aqua soil is over powered.

So here are the pics:











*Thes shrimp need a well oxygenated tank so an old diffuser makes a good airstone*










*A closer look at the fossilized coral ( collected by a rock hound out in the California desert)*




















*The Cardinal shrimp cave*. Hard to see it here but there are several over hangs and a deep cave that the shrimp hang out in. They have not really bothered to explore the new rock in the middle of the tank - they like this structure.










*A view through the end of the tank.* The plants are small, (OK, tiny) Eriocaulon sp "sulawesi". The grey fuzzy thing on the substrate is one of the two sponge prefilters that leads to the filter system through the bulkhead in the tank floor.










*The Home depot bucket conditioning the RO water with coral chips*










*Now, the filter stuff. I mixed purigen resin plus crushed shells 50/50 and filled up two 8" x3" mesh bags.*










*Here is the 10" water filter housing containing a resin cartridge holding the two mesh bags. I stuffed some filter floss in the gaps to drive more flow through the bags.*










Well, I think that sums up the new additions. Hopefully I can keep these guys successfully.


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## vca2004 (Sep 7, 2009)

Absolutely awesome :bounce::eek5::bounce:!! 

Subscribed for sure. It looks almost like in the pictures and I think it's genius how you figured out how to get the water values right. And I love the plumbing job you did on this. -Very cool! Did you see the video of the Sulawesi trip on the Logemann's website yet? 

BTW, Bill need to hurry up to get the picture attachment thing figured out at his forum, so you can post all that there too. They are totally missing out!


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## dxiong5 (Sep 28, 2008)

Awesome progress. The diffuser as an airstone is a great idea. On picture #5, there are white "dots" on one of the branches; any idea what those are?


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

dxiong5 - Yes, the dots are nerite eggs. I took that root from my other tank to provide some biofilm for the shrimp. I would have scrubbed them off other wise! The diffuser does work nicely as an airstone.

Vanessa! I would have loved to post your translation of the german link. Instead I will post the link:
http://arizonainverts.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1808

Everyone - if you are interested in Sulawesi shrimp, Vanessa is translating a very informative trip report from the Malili lakes from the original German, Really cool.
http://arizonainverts.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1808 

I have not seen the video, but I will today!

Bill


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

This is a nice video of a Sulawesi tank, pretty cool.


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## vca2004 (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks for the video, Orlando, but Bill and I were talking about this kind of video (scoll down to lowest third of the page):
http://blog.garnelenhaus.de/rubrik/sulawesi/page/2/


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Orlando, I love that tank. 

GLA needs to cary a rimless cube ( with out a tempered bottom :wink.

Here is a translated page of the video Vanessa found 

http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhiUdvvOnsCWG7RH-Pvd_9ZLoeCg1Q


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

The closest thing we have for a cube is this tank. It is not tempered


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Cool. And there you have the shrimp in the tank too. I am sorry I missed did you mention what kinds of plants you got?


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## cole99v (Oct 13, 2009)

Holy god sir, i love that tank, its quite a beauty. Props to you for many years, lol  I'm just getting into shrimp myself.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

What an awesome biotope! Kudos to you for putting so much time and effort into your research and building the biotope.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Really amazing job! I especially appreciate the innovative filter intakes you put together.


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## FDNY911 (Dec 6, 2009)

How is the tank coming?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Update?


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

updates?


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## lopez_316us (Jan 25, 2008)

Update!!!!


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

*Update April 21st*

OOPS! - Sorry folks, I have been preoccupied and not following my threads.

Update

The tank has changed a bit.

I lost my first batch of Sulawesi shrimp. This is discussed in another thread but basically I had a painful learning experience.

The tank got a few more plants and a few new residents - Threadfin rainbows and some Red Neon Gobies. These are both cool fish and pretty shrimp friendly. I put some wild type Neocaridina in the tank too and they bred like crazy!

Here is a full tank shot from a couple months back (Feb)









My goal was to keep things going and try to import some more Sulawesi shrimp in the spring. After my first experience, I did not want to put all my eggs in one basket so I added two 10 gallon tanks - one is a self contained 10 gallon with inert sand and pebble substrate. It has a sponge filter and I made sure there were no snails to compete with the shrimp.
A pic:









The other ten gallon is attached to the 60 gallons filter system. I wanted to create a small environment where I could control the supplemental feeding and keep better track of the shrimp. BUT, I still wanted to have the stability of a larger body of water. My original design had a third outlet from the main filters that was not being used. I drilled a hole in the bottom of the ten gallon and put a sponge on a standard 1 inch strainer to diffuse the flow. On the opposite side of the tank, I created an over flow by drilling through the side wall at the top of the tank. This keeps a constant water level in the tank. Effectively, the 60 gallon serves as a sump!.

Some pics:
*The tank showing the sponge diffuser for the inflow.*









*A broader view showing the over flow into the 60 gallon*









*A close up of the 1 inch overflow*. The tank has a measure 102 gallon per hour flow through it with very little current. This is due to the sponge inlet with essentially a 360 degree directional flow through a 1 inch pipe.









I also wanted to isolate the ten gallon from any pathogens in the big tank so a *15 watt UV system was put inline just before the ten gallon*:


















*The two ten gallons are side by side and share a 2 bulb 24 inch Fish Need It T5HO light:*









The 60 gallon got a slight up grade to the chemical filter. I was able to create a *fluidized Purigen reactor*. This allows the water to come in contact with more of the resin and improves efficiency. I wanted to remove organics as quickly as possible:









*The 60 gallon - right side*









*Left side*









*The middle (I dare you to cross the line...)*









Some of the new residents

*White Orchids (from Lake Poso I believe)*









*Cardinals - C. dennerli, from Lake Matano*









*Blue Dot Red Lines - a variant of C. striata, from Lake Towuti*



























*An unexpected stowaway in the White orchids, C. longidigita, a filter feeder from Lake Poso*


















Knock on wood. So far things are going well. I have white orchid and Blue Dot Redline shrimplets (berried females when I got them). I also have two Cardinals that have become berried in my tanks. 

Bill


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

all these shrimp are great, but the white orchids are out of control, great tank!


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Thanks!
The White Orchids are pretty bold for a Sulawesi shrimp. They are out searching for food all the time. More like a CRS. I am optimistic that these guys will settle in for the long haul.


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Grats on the success man, I love the tank layouts and especially the shrimpies, good luck with the breeding and remember to have fun!
Your pal,
Pianofish


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Thanks Piano,
Still early to claim success!. Definitely a challenging tank. Didn't plan on creating a low tech tank with plants. - no C02 and minimal ferts. Suprised that the Downoi and the H. corymbosum "compact" seem to be doing well. The pH is 7.9!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Nice setups! The downoi looks awesome. Really cool shrimp, too


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Heh, but low tech tanks are the best! :hihi: Well I don't wanna brag but I found my first berried cherry shrimp yesterday  Beat that. Haha. 
Well goood luck,
and Keep us posted,
Your pal,


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## lopez_316us (Jan 25, 2008)

Bill thank for the update! 

It's always a pleasure to read your updates and learn more about this new shrimps. Too bad about the first batches, but hopefully this new one would do better. 

The thanks are looking great! 

Good luck!


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

*CL* - thanks! The downoi was a big suprise. It grows better here than in my 90 gallon with Metal halides and injected CO2 - go figure. Hey I am following your 100 gallon container pond thread. Always wanted a pond.

*Piano -* A berried RCS eh? The pressure is on... Now you get to start looking for shrimplets! A magnifying glass helps.

*Lopez 316 - *That is a very kind thing to say. I appreciate that. Half the fun of this hobby is sharing with other fanatics!


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

Bill, you have a great eye for natural looking tanks. very inspiring and well put together. Keep up the great work!


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Update on this tank? 

On another note, what pump to you use for your filtration?


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

yes i would love an update on this tank and more info as to how that downoi is growing!!!


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## manualfocus (Jun 15, 2011)

Update please!


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