# Constant bga



## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Hi all,
I have been facing with BGA for half a year now. Initially, i wanted a quick fix instead of rectifying the root cause and gone ahead to use EM on them, i journalised my observations and had good success. However, i had problems removing the dead algae on the substract as they stuck fast and my diy nano vac didnt quite did its job. Bga returned in about 4 weeks.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38669

I came across tom's EI and followed closely to achieving targeted kno3/p04 concentrations. My lastest plea came when my lastest blackout with EI didnt yield any success. The major mistake i made was not covering the overhanging filter, thus the bga colonised the entire pipings, ceramic rings, biohomeplus and the carbon pad. I did a clean up with large water changes and proceed as per my normal regime.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40780

I had some help recently to confirm the ID of the algae as previously, did not have clear pics of them, and was unsuccessfully in eradicating them. So most of us thought i had a different type of algae.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41611

Its been 2 weeks from my last black out and bga has overtaken my mosses, hairgrass, but my substract strangely wasnt infected. My hairgrass tips have bga on them, the mosses nearest to the light had green patches, bubbling away happily 

Is my combination of plants incorrect ? seeing i only have a wall of moss+ a moderately dense hairgrass ? both classed as being or having moderate growth ? 

I'm skeptical to whether seachem stability plays a part? Since cynobacteria = some form of bacteria, adding too much will result in less than desirable bacterias in your aquarium ?

From my observation, i;ve also noticed it takes 4hours for my 10L tank to reach the ideal dark green/green for my PH drop checker, during this time, does the plants stall ? thus allowing the bga to gain an upper hand ?

Appreciate some help. thanks.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

This afternoon, i have gone ahead to use bleach, hydrogen peroxide on my filter, filter media, pipings as well as soak the entire mesh of moss. I have overdose seachem prime to help with dechlorination and will add them back to my tank after 1 day of overnight soak.


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## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

Hi Torque - I am thinking you dont have enough plants that are quick growers. The hairgrass and the moss are not using enough of the fertilizers...especially if you are dosing EI! I would get yourself some fast growing stems to balance things out. As of the moment it you are throwing fertilizer into your tank and growing algae.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

thanks jasa,
i also felt i lack fast growers. I've just bleach my mosses but even after soaking it for a couple of hours and leaving them in dechlorinated water for about a day, it still smells like rotten egg and is pretty much stinking up my entire kitchen. Ive cleared bga before but it doesnt smell this bad.

Do i need to bleach it further ?


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

torque6 said:


> thanks jasa,
> i also felt i lack fast growers. I've just bleach my mosses but even after soaking it for a couple of hours and leaving them in dechlorinated water for about a day, it still smells like rotten egg and is pretty much stinking up my entire kitchen. Ive cleared bga before but it doesnt smell this bad.
> 
> Do i need to bleach it further ?


You bleached your mosses and left them soaking in there for hours? And now they smell like rotten eggs? Are you sure the moss isnt completely dead? Is it still green or white? 

Have you tried antibiotics to kill the BGA? I agree with Jasa about dosing and fast growers. Maybe throw some wisteria in the tank for now or rethink your aquascape and incorporate some permenant fast growers.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

bga is very nasty stuff. it is near impossible to get rid of once it takes hold.


i dose maracyn 1/2 strength for 6 days after manually removing as much as possible. after all the bga is dead get a gravel vac and dump it down the drain. if done right this never fails.

then plant some stems, along with new moss......


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

thanks all for the prompt response. The mosses are green not white and ive reintroduce to the tank this morning.

Yes, i have done EM sometime in mar. I have detailed my observation and journalised it in the 38669 link.

So far after reading tom's suggestions and a couple of experts on AQ, i intend to focus on growing my plants instead of killing the problem. Its just that, i find the bga spreading fast dispite dosing EI and having stable co2 and cleaning my filters. Im not too worried about constantly damaging the beneficial bacteria as my tank is pretty much understock with 3 boraras in a 10L tank. I feed on alternative days with 2 pellets crushed into 4 portions and fed at intervals. However, i do noticed some of them get siphon up through the inlet.

Ive pointed out that its perhaps my make up of plants is causing an imbalance rather than a problem in the technique.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

co2 really has no bearing on the bga.
i believe in the "just grow the plants" philosophy but bga is a whole different type of critter than all other algae types.

it will cover your hairgrass and form smothering sheets of slime while you are away.

it wont just go away, you have to kill it first.
if you dont want to play with antibiotics again then you need to cover that thing up real tight in a blackout.

otherwise no matter what you do it is going to just come right back and keep spreading.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

I thought so too discus. Supposely, without a blackout or EM, its true to some extent, at least in my observations, it doesnt plainly goes away. I have already done a black out last week, with the exception of my mistake of forgetting to cover the OHF as well resulting in BGA spreading to the pipes where its expose to light.

Perhaps i should have bleach the filters and moss, do a partial water change, dose kno3 then perform the blackout and dose EM at the same time, and let it sit for 3-4 days. Then repeat the cleaning exercises and water change and redose kno3 after the 4th day.

Its real fustrating that you've missed a step and have to repeat the whole process again.


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

In my experiences BGA only came on when i had a lot of nutrients in excess. I was dosing EI and also had a bottle of seachem flourish i wanted to use for micro nutrients. Sure enough every single time i have added flourish the BGA came back. I found that a single run of EM following the instructions worked with no need to remove any dead algae. 

Since you said several time you have plants with moderate growth i would either plant more stems after getting rid of the BGA or reduce your fert rates. Remember EI is is just a reference point if something doesn't work for you or causes problems change it.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

thanks plakat, 

Its seems we are all having different observations and results steming from bga. From occuring due to low kno3 to bad water circulation and sometimes due to ferts.

1 variable i can think of is the different types of ferts we are all using, since commercially, most bottled ferts are less than cooperative in listing every single ingredient in their make up, thus making it hard to pinpoint if a particular component of the ferts causes algae.

I have noted that ammonium and urea are being listed in seachem nitrogen. According to Tom, 1/20 of this will definitely cause algae, thus dosing this in presense of any algae will possibly result in a bloom.


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## GIO590 (Jun 25, 2007)

I find that good circulation along with a decent bioload (and thus nitrate production rate) will keep BGA away. I have the complete seachem line of fertilizers, except for nitrate, since my aquarium naturally produces enought of it. 

I would suggest you add medicine in addition to cutting ferts for a week in order to deal with the immediate outbreak. Then proceed to modify your aquarium set up to to:

have more water flow (get stronger filter or a new powerhead)
naturally produce some nitrate (do this slowly especially after meds uncycle your tank) This can be done by adding a few more fish


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Hi gio,

I too am using the full seachem line of products and dose a targeted 20ppm of KNO3 split into 3 doses per week. I have a 10L planted tank with only 3 boraras, but would not add more fish to my bioload since it would exceed the plants' NH4 uptake. My filter runs at 250L/h so it pretty strong for my tank as it is. I have added a 200L/H powerhead before, however, the flow had made my fishes abit stressed up.

Is the medication you are refering to as erythromycin ? EM/myacin ? I have done antibiotics some time in Mar, however bga still came back.

I came across an article by keith indicating that "bottled bacterias with its limited ammonia and oxygen" may in advertly result in bad bacterias if used in the tanks, I'm not sure if these bad bacterias are actually cynobacterias.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

By the way, this is how my tank looks like.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

You might want to check out some of these threads:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/64959-blue-green-algae-help.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/58084-cyanobacteria.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/10675-bga-maracyn-eurythromyacin.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/55379-cyanobacteria.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/51578-bga-cures.html

Doing a search for BGA using the search function on this site yeilded A LOT of pages of BGA related theads.

My personal oppinion on the matter is:

1. Tank might have bottomed out on nitrates.
2. Introduction from another source / cross contamination.
3. Poor water circulation.

From my experience, get nitrates in order first and foremost. Then perform eradication steps. I prefer using the EM method following the reccommended dosage and duration of treatment. It will not affect the bio filter in any way.

As far as dosing excess nutrients...

I don't buy it. Dosing with the EI method in excess, from my own experience, does not induce the formation of algae.

Too few nutrients, on the other hand, does give different types of algae a foothold in a tank.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Hi biscuit, i have gone already gone through those. My journal on AQ have an extensive refers to both plantedtank.net as well as other sources.

I have been following tom's suggestion on managing bga as well as other sources from various experts. So to answer your question. 

1- I have inplace a fert regimes that targeted 20ppm KNO3 per week, 3 doses 1ml seachem nitrogen.
2- My tank has been setup for half a year now with no introduction of plants. It started having BGA and became worst in mar where i had to resort to using EM.
3- My tank is 10L with a 250L/H overhanging filter, ive attached the pics. So im not betting its circulation.

However, dispite having done EM, with blackout, cleaning of filters as such. BGA has always without fail came back dispite these efforts.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I don't have experience with Seachem Nitrogen, but I would bet that what you are shooting for and what you actually have might be two different things.

The other thing is increasing nitrates will not get rid of BGA. It will help keep it from coming back.

Every time I got rid of BGA, I nuked it with EM. I made sure my nitrates were at a higher level and it didn't come back (atleast in force).


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

That is the thing, I understand tht high nitrates levels keep it from coming back, however, in my case, even after doing a blackout killing them, and dosing nitrates back, it returns within the week. Which is why, i believe its no longer an issue with the techniques.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

you are probably leaving tiny peek of light enough for the stuff to exist in low numbers while the tank is covered so when you uncover it they come out and take over again. 

put away the bleach. you dont need it.
btw, darkness is a known killer of bga.

strike down upon thee with great vengance!
i would furiously dose a full round of EM 6 days and i gaurantee you wont see that stuff again for a very long time.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> you are probably leaving tiny peek of light enough for the stuff to exist in low numbers while the tank is covered so when you uncover it they come out and take over again.
> 
> put away the bleach. you dont need it.
> btw, darkness is a known killer of bga.
> ...


yeah, you are right, i made a mistake by exposing my overhanging filter during my black out, and in the end dispite having cleaned them, BGA came back in full force.

I have begun another blackout this evening, with 50% water change and KNO3 dosing. I am using newspaper this time to completely cover the tank and am using 60mg EM dosing.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

hi, just an update, 2nd day into after using EM with blackout method. Ive covered the entire tank with newspaper this time round. Unfortunately, i lost 1 female boraras brigittae as my temp under the darkness rose to 32 degrees as i took away the fan to eliminate water evaporation.

I have already done a large wc , 60% with dosing of kno3, seachem N immediately, did another small wc today, about 20%. Seems a fairly amount of brown and dead hairgrass as well as yellowing of the taiwan moss.


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## Honorable24 (Nov 16, 2008)

Will Em harm invertebrates?, I have cherry shrimp


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