# v1.0 of Yet Another Nutrient Calculator is live



## farrenator

Awesome! Thanks for creating and updating such a useful tool.


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## Gatekeeper

Great to see you back. I got your pm. Man, its been some time, but glad I was able to help.

Really nifty little tool. Bookmarked!


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## wet

Thank you!


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## Sparky007

Sweet, I like the colored bar graph report, very smart.

Any chance you might add the combined Macro-Micro-CSM-B powder from aquariumfertilizer.com?

I got it by mistake (thinking it would be separate bags) and I'm trying to figure out how to dose it.

Cheers


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## carpenoctem

Awesome stuff. I hate math so this is invaluable. Thanks!


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## wet

Thanks!

Sparky007 -- I'd love to. I'm pretty sure that by "parts" aquariumfertilizer.com is using volume and so I can get the proportions alright, I think. This might be an incorrect assumption and they may be doing "parts" by mass, though. Are you up for emailing them? (I've emailed maybe a year ago for something else and never got a response, but have also never ordered from them  )

Do you happen to have a scale? If so, the mass of a teaspoon measured/averaged a few times is needed. If you don't, that's okay and I can mix up the same proportions and weigh it some point this weekend.


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## wet

Hey Sparky007. I added AquariumFertilizers MacroMicro Mix to http://calc.petalphile.com

This guy is tricky since there's no information on their site, so I figured I'd explain how I did it. 

First, let's assume by "equal parts" they're using volume, because almost everyone who says "parts" means volume. This would be doing something like adding 1 cup each of KNO3, K2SO4, MgSO4, and Plantex CSM+B into some bag and then shaking it up. Lets assume the mix gets evenly distributed.

Now lets pull a teaspoon out of that bag. That teaspoon will be 1/4 teaspoon KNO3, 1/4 tsp K2SO4, 1/4 tsp MgSO4, and 1/4 tsp Plantex CSM+B, of course. Such a teaspoon will weigh about 5.25 grams.

However, the mass of each of the compounds will be different and not 1/4 of the total. (KNO3, K2SO4, MgSO4.7H2O, and Plantex CSM+B all have different densities.) If we took each one of those 1/4 teaspoons, we'd actually have a mass like this:



Code:


		volume		mass (mg)	mass (%)
PlantexCSM+B	1/4 tsp		1075		20.5
KNO3		1/4 tsp		1300		24.8
K2SO4		1/4 tsp		1600		30.5
MgSO4.7H2O	1/4 tsp		1275		24.3
total 		1 tsp		5250

Now we have mass percentages, so the rest is easy. (All the % we know and love from our fertilizers are calculated by mass percentage, and so we have to speak apples to apples before we convert it.)

Lets look at all the nutrients of our MicroMacro Nutrient mix. Whats the percentage of each nutrient from each bit of the mix?



Code:


KNO3
	K:	 0.0957
	N:	 0.0343
	NO3:	 0.1519
K2SO4
	K:	 0.1368
	S:	 0.0561
MgSO4.7H2O
	Mg:	 0.024
	dGH:	 0.0017
	S:	 0.0316
Plantex CSM+B
	Mn:	 0.0038
	B:	 0.0024
	Mo:	 0.0001
	Mg:	 0.0029
	dGH:	 0.0002
	Cu:	 0.0002
	Zn:	 0.0008
	Fe:	 0.0134

We then take all those bits and add them up. 



Code:


AF's MacroMicro Mix:
  K:      0.233
  N:      0.0343
  NO3:    0.152
  S:      0.0877
  Mg:     0.0268
  Fe:     0.0134
  Mn:     0.00383
  Mo:     0.000102
  Cu:     0.000184
  Zn:     0.000758
  tsp:    5250
  target: NO3

(I was rounding in the scripts above for the purposes of the thread. This guy does 3 significant figures at the end of all calculations)

Now lets check out what happens with 3 grams of that stuff into a 20gallon tank.









I'm not really down with this stuff, fwiw. I think the lack of PO4 and in particular the proportions make it smarter to roll your own mix. 

Please correct me!


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## wet

Hi. 

Version 1.1 of Yet Another Nutrient Calculator -- http://calc.petalphile.com -- adds commercial premixed solutions. Here's a couple of examples:














































It:

* Will let you calculate RootMedic and Pfertz (thanks for supporting our hobby!) initially
* Works off pumps, mL, or bottlecaps to make your life easier
* Is still in beta but you should have fun with it
* Works off the assumption of % being wt/vol, but please correct me

Check back to the calculator these next couple of days for:
* Seachem, Tropica, and more commercial fertilizers!
* Mobile site updates for these new features

Thanks!


Thanks!


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## mscichlid

Help me understand my results:

To reach your target of 10.0ppm NO3, you'll need to add 740.664grams of KNO3 into your 500.0 mL container.
Each 5.0 mL of that mix into 120.0 gal is:

Element ppm/degrees 
K 6.31 
N 2.26 
NO3 10.00 


KNO3's solubility at room temperature
is 360 mg/mL.
You should adjust your dose.​
Why should I adjust it?


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## OverStocked

mscichlid said:


> Help me understand my results:
> 
> To reach your target of 10.0ppm NO3, you'll need to add 740.664grams of KNO3 into your 500.0 mL container.
> Each 5.0 mL of that mix into 120.0 gal is:
> 
> Element ppm/degrees
> K 6.31
> N 2.26
> NO3 10.00
> 
> 
> KNO3's solubility at room temperature
> is 360 mg/mL.
> You should adjust your dose.​
> Why should I adjust it?


Too much KNO3 mixed into solution. It will not dissolve. 360 mg/ml, or 360 grams per liter. You are trying to put twice that in half a liter. It will be a chunky soup of solids.


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## robbowal

mscichlid said:


> Help me understand my results:
> 
> To reach your target of 10.0ppm NO3, you'll need to add 740.664*grams* of KNO3 into your 500.0 mL container.
> Each 5.0 mL of that mix into 120.0 gal is:​
> Element ppm/degrees
> K 6.31
> N 2.26
> NO3 10.00​
> 
> KNO3's solubility at room temperature
> is 360 *mg*/mL.
> You should adjust your dose.​
> Why should I adjust it?


 it wont desolve in the amount of water you are using.
Ooops 
ninja post while checking the math


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## mscichlid

Thanks guys!


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## OverStocked

It is looking very good and would be handy for me when doing setups and talks. Any chance of a dedicated web ap that wouldn't require web access after install? 

Maybe mistergreen could help with that to some extent.

RootMedic would be happy to donate for initial costs and if you were to "charge" for the app, I'd offer something for free to every person that signed up. 

Just let me know if you want to talk, wet.


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## wet

Hey OverStocked!

First, this is awesome. Shops like yours are awesome for our hobby. 

I can't commit to a desktop app for RootMedic's stuff. But I'm up for it and RootMedic can sponsor this project for a contribution or perks to your choice of AGA or SCAPE members (the clubs I am a part of). It's not a hard project, I just have my hobby computer machine time queued up for cooler http://ei.petalphile.com charts, some new tool for folks who find the existing calculators too hard, and some other stuff. 

However, all my calculators are opensource -- MIT license: do whatever you want with it -- at the GitHub link above, and if anyone else wants to tackle your project, or build a cool frontend for my calculators, or anything interesting, I am eager to help with, support, and contribute code/time/ideas!

The mobile site is live for all of RootMedic and Pfertz stuff, by the way.


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## mistergreen

I'm working on version 2 of my calculator.. I can add in rootmedic's et al into the ferts selection. Wet did all of the work already with the fert analysis.


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## wet

mistergreen,

Nice - Congrats ahead of time on the next release!

folks,

Quick changelog for http://calc.petalphile.com :

New stuff:
* Seachem
* Tropica
* ADA, courtesy of Plantbrain/Tom Barr's analysis. His full analysis is available at http://barrreport.com

Bug fixes:
* New conversions module borked. Folks may have seen this when returning L in output or entering mg in input.

Thanks!


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## OverStocked

Thanks to both of you for your great work.


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## pfertz

Wow, great job folks!!! Kudos!


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## plantbrain

Double check the cal to make sure the results are correct also, never hurts to check 2-3X etc.


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## wet

Or, "Sometimes wet pushes hobby code after drinking." - plantbrain

This is totally accurate! But as far as I know there are currently no calculation bugs on http://calc.petalphile.com , http://ei.petalphile.com , or http://dropcheck.petalphile.com ; but please correct me and report any bugs!

And please help spread these links around!


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## rocketdude1234

I was just looking for everyone's opinion on my KNO3 dosing. Currently, I use a 250ml bottle with 1tbsp of KNO3 (frolm Green Leaf Aquariums). 

According to Rex's Planted Tank Guide (http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/dosing.html):

1ml of this solution gives me ~1.08 ppm nitrates and ~.54 ppm K in 10 gallons. I used this formula to arrive at a dosing chart for my 36 gallon. The numbers are as follows: 

20ml of the above solution in 36 gallons = 6ppm nitrates and 3ppm K.
40ml in 36 gallons = 12ppm nitrates and 6 ppm K.

When I use the one on this thread, I get the following results:

Please let me know if these numbers sound about right and your thoughts on this dosing 20ml of solution twice a week with 30% wc once per week. BTW my lighting is 1x14w t5 and 1x24w t5ho (38 watts total) and a 2-bottle diy co2 system run through a powerhead.


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## wet

Hey rocketdude1234. Sorry, I'm sneaking in a post at work so edited this 

The difference here is the mass Rex and I are using for a teaspoon of KNO3. I use ~5.2g/tsp while he's using 5.6g/tsp. My mass comes from a leveled teaspoon, which coincides with APC's community survey for teaspoon mass. 

Always more accurate is using grams (or mg) for input. This is not to say plants care about such differences.

Your dosing plan looks great. CO2 + moderate light with regular dosing and water changes makes for an easy tank. Don't ignore PO4 and traces though, especially if you don't feed a lot or see deficiency.


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## wet

Hello!

I'm making a call for translators to contribute to the next version of this calculator, which is available but still under development at http://alpha.calc.petalphile.com

To date we have Romanian courtesy of Florin Ilia and Spanish courtesy of DanielSev and jagg81. We would love more!

You can read how to contribute a translation at http://alpha.calc.petalphile.com/contribute_translation . 

If you use GitHub, you get bonus points, including a public commit to the code of this open source project. Otherwise, please feel free to use the contact form linked in that document, or paste here, or whatever works best for you!

If you can't help, I hope you let friends who can know about this project.

Thanks!


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## Wasserpest

U got PM. :fish:


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## wet

Live at http://alpha.calc.petalphile.com/de/

Thank you Wasserpest! Replied to your email -- let me know what you think.


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## HD Blazingwolf

it would be nice to see the results of GH booster additives. seachem equilibrium, GLA GH bosster mix. any others that might be out there


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## wet

HD Blazingwolf,

Sure, we'll add it to Alpha. Teaspoon mass (the weight of a leveled teaspoon, averaged over several trials or posted for each trial) is helpful for the less common stuff. We'll add at least Plantbrain's GH Booster recipe to v2.0.

First draft of Dutch is up courtesy of dutchy at The Barr Report. Awesome contributions folks -- thank you! Lets keep it going


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## HD Blazingwolf

coolnes!! im excited. this so far has been the easiest and most user friendly calc i've used. tsp function is great for those who don't measure in grams such as myself


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## Dempsey

Sweet! I use Tom's GH Booster also. I used to use Seachem Equilibrium but Tom's is cheaper and better, IMO. 

It would be awesome to see what I am adding though.


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## rahlcepx516

Hm, so I used the calculator to calculate a solution of k2SO4 in 30ml doses in a 1000ml container for a 75 gallon tank.

EI here states 1/4 tsp 3 times a week. Calculator says....

To reach your target of 8.5ppm K, you'll need to add 179.259 grams of K2SO4 into your 1000.0 mL container.
Each 30.0 mL of that mix into 75.0 gal is:

179.259 grams = 12.1229358 US tablespoons :eek5:

I'm dosing twice as much k2SO4 versus KNO3? huh? (I had around 6.2 TBSP for my tank).

I feel it should be more like 1.6 tablespoons...


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## Wasserpest

rahlcepx516 said:


> Hm, so I used the calculator to calculate a solution of k2SO4 in 30ml doses in a 1000ml container for a 75 gallon tank.
> 
> EI here states 1/4 tsp 3 times a week. Calculator says....
> 
> To reach your target of 8.5ppm K, you'll need to add 179.259 grams of K2SO4 into your 1000.0 mL container.
> Each 30.0 mL of that mix into 75.0 gal is:
> 
> 179.259 grams = 12.1229358 US tablespoons :eek5:
> 
> I'm dosing twice as much k2SO4 versus KNO3? huh? (I had around 6.2 TBSP for my tank).
> 
> I feel it should be more like 1.6 tablespoons...


Plugging your values for KNO3 into the calculator, I get 131 grams. So it's not twice, and you need more K2SO4 to get the same K level than KNO3 to get the same N level. Not that it really matters.

One thing to watch out for is the solubility of K2SO4. You won't be able to dissolve 12 tbs K2SO4 into 1l water. My suggestion with a large tank like yours would be to dose dry, unless you auto-dose solutions.


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## wet

Hi rahlcepx516 

There's a couple of things going on here that I think may be confusing. 

1) your solution has about 33 doses, so 1/4 tsp doses would be more like 2.75 TBL. 

2) 1 tsp of K2SO4 is about 6.4 grams, so the calculator's suggested amount in solution is a little more than 9 TBL. 

3) and most important is that there's more than one way to EI. 

Two examples: I don't think plantbrain even doses or recommends K2SO4 (instead just using K from KNO3) and the suggested amounts folk discuss are almost all scaled from a "typical high light" 20 gallon plantbrain mentioned in early EI docs. Notice where the calculator's 8.5 lppm falls in EI's recommended 10-30ppm K range. Also follow the long term modeling link and use EI's standard 50% weekly water changes, and you'll see what I mean about EI having huge ranges. 

The current calculator makes some assumptions in it's recommendation for EI. It suggests less N, more P, and more Fe than most because, well, I think it's smarter. It assumes if you are dosing a K source you're doing it because you are not getting K from any other sources. It doesn't do what the sticky here suggests, which knows you're getting some K from KNO3, KH2PO4 and GH booster. (this is how it calculates every nutrient, of course!)

What I'm saying is EI is awesome in part because it tells us to stop caring so much about every nutrient but C. When aquarists first using EI think they're chasing some number or written-in-stone routine, they are missing one of the important points of EI. 

But check out http://alpha.calc.petalphile.com for EI doses that more strictly follows these circa 2005 recommendations folks are so married to . I think blocking on these points (while I think they're important) are stopping folks from moving past nutrients, which is the ultimate point of this calculator. 

Suggestions for another solution to this problem, or members telling me i'm wrong, or general discussion among gardeners are appreciated of course


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## Gatekeeper

What about adding the ability in the selections under "DIY" section to add multiple chemicals to a solution and get a resultant? Such as the total value of K if one added KH2PO4, K2SO4 and KNO3 into solution.


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## wet

Sure. Probably not this next release, but a future one. 

Folks wanting this now might be interested in pat w's Excel spreadsheet, which uses data from this calculator. You can find his current release here: http://www.aquaticplantenthusiasts....tion-spreadsheet-stocksolpro-3.html#post28484


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## firefiend

Hey wet... are there any plans for an android app which might possible also act as a "tank tracker" of sorts as well?

that'd be super sweet.


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## wet

Hey firefiend. Not immediately but I'm pondering porting this over to another language that is more portable across devices. There's also the more likely possibility that it simply be an app available offline instead of a traditional App Store purchase. (I would prefer the latter in terms of my current interests.) 

Also keep in mind there's the regular mobile web interface at http://calc.petalphile.com/mobile

Tell me more about this tank tracker idea. What is it you're looking for? A log to enter your doses and maybe get some charts and graphs back? A simple log/diary of your schedule you could export or paste into threads and stuff? Another idea?

(If someone wants to tackle these projects -- and it does seem like folks want an Android dosing app -- I'd love to collaborate!)

(Folks with Apple mobile devices who want an offline calc should check out Mistergreen's calculator, which also uses bits from this project: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mistergreens-aquarium-fertilizer/id446259633?mt=8 )


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## mistergreen

Thanks for the advert 

I'm still working on version 2 of the app and it does track whatever you want to put in there. It has a week view.

I'm stuck right now. There is a function in the tracker that lets you take a picture of your tank but the camera interface is being covered by another interface and I have to figure out how to get rid of it.


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## esworp

I dose dry, but dont have a scale that I can measure milligrams on. I'd like to make a feature request of dry doses in 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, and 1/32 teaspoons. (ie: Dash, Smidge, Pinch, etc minispoons..)


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## Wasserpest

wet said:


> Also keep in mind there's the regular mobile web interface at http://calc.petalphile.com/mobile


This would work great on android if the keyboard would pop up for number entries. It works in the non-mobile version. Any way to fix? :wink:


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## firefiend

wet said:


> Tell me more about this tank tracker idea. What is it you're looking for? A log to enter your doses and maybe get some charts and graphs back? A simple log/diary of your schedule you could export or paste into threads and stuff? Another idea?



So, I'm going to be developing a spreadsheet to track my tanks progress... what I'm going to be entering are my water testing results; my fert dosing (if any); lighting info (PAR, watts, distance, etc.); excel dosing, etc. I don't use CO2 on my tanks but that could also be added and tracked.

from the testing results and dosing info you can estimate plant uptake; graph it, etc.

I'm not sure this is all useful to the typical hobbyist but I want to learn cause and effect and I'm looking to gather and present as much data as possible. And while I don't necessary need a mobile app; I just thought it would be cool and gives you a great project for either freeware or an opportunity to generate a little income.


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## esworp

I have a spreadsheet for your use if you want.. PM me.

Also, +1 to the idea of a decent android app. :]


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## wet

Thanks for these suggestions and requests!

esworp,

You've been able to use fractions in the teaspoon fields for some time now. Just enter 1/16 (or whatever) into the appropriate field:










Wasserpest,

Yes, but I'm not really sure how to do it right now. The problem is every mobile device I've ever tested (including flip phones) is usable on the mobile interface. For example, here's all three Android devices I could borrow from coworkers just now, all with the keyboard displayed on the mobile calculator: http://cdn.petalphile.com/stuff/android_yanc.png

I need to find one that fails before understanding why this is happening to your telephone machine. Or maybe I or someone else will get around to the Android project sooner than I plan! 

firefiend,

I like your and esworp's project idea. It sounds like a cool spreadsheet and I hope you find time to share it with other gardeners.

Thanks again.


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## mistergreen

Wasserpest said:


> This would work great on android if the keyboard would pop up for number entries. It works in the non-mobile version. Any way to fix? :wink:


You can specify the keyboard type in an app, at least in the iphone version. You can't really with a web app like wet's since it's html/javascript. It can't communicate straight to the mobile's operating system.


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## Gatekeeper

Keyboard didn't show for my HTC incredible.


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## rahlcepx516

@Wasserpest & Wet

Thanks for getting back to me and clarifying that. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong, I just didn't understand, and your explanations definitely cleared it up for me! 

On that note, Do you anticipate making a sort of "grouped EI" calculator in that? So somebody could list all the ferts they are using and then the calculator will put into account all the ferts and adjust accordingly? So I am dosing KNO3, so maybe I should only dose x amount of k2so4, etc. Just a thought, and maybe not even a very good one xD


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## wet

I was hoping the Android thing would be an onTouch/onClick thing, but I guess not. Will add it to the queue of stuffs. If this happens you'll have a desktop client along with it, by the way. (It's kind of the same project.)

rahlcepx516, I have thought about making a simple EI calculator where you just stick in your tank size and it spits out a dosing schedule using KNO3, KH2PO4, and CSM+B, then suggests GH Booster or K2SO4 if your water is soft or you have a lot of animals and feeding, respectively. Your idea of picking a N, P, and K source then calculating how much of each is interesting. 

In regards to EI recommended dosing, I've decided to use 10-1.5-8-0.2 as N-P-K-Fe(as a proxy for traces) levels. This is different than the older stickies here and around the Internet. But I think these are good targets for the reasons we talked about earlier. I'd love arguments to the contrary.

Version 2 of this calculator should be released early next week. Check out the alpha site these next few days as the new charts from http://alpha.ei.petalphile.com comes over to the nutrient calculator. Bug reports and feedback are always appreciated. And, of course, so are new translations. 

Also Japanese is now live at http://alpha.calc.petalphile.com . I'm not sure how to spread that news over to our friends in Japan though...


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## mistergreen

Man, you are pumping these calculators out!

I have to worry about memory management.

Oh yeah, the Apple app store opened in China recently. I'll need a Chinese version


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## Wasserpest

Gatekeeper said:


> Keyboard didn't show for my HTC incredible.


HTC Evo 4G here. Maybe it's an HTC quirk?


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## wet

mistergreen, yeah I'm lucky in that this has been a wonderful learning opportunity (the EI calc was my first Perl webapp, and YANC is my first Ruby and JavaScript) and making tools folks use has been extremely rewarding. 

------


Hello friends.

I'm pleased to announce the newest releases of http://calc.petalphile.com and http://ei.petalphile.com










Among the new features are:
A single page interface
Interactive, zoomable, fancy charts
Modelling projections for your first month of dosing by method (EI, PPS-Pro, etc)
Lots more compounds
Multiple water changes per week
Translations for the nutrient calculator in Dutch, German, Japanese, Brazillian Portuguese (in progress), Romanian, and Spanish

Here's a short video clicking around these two calculators

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XwnKN_Mq2M


Special thanks to Jorge Gonzalez, Florin Ilia, DanielSev, dutchy, Wasserpest, Tyler Merritt, and Carlos Olivera for their translations. You can find links to their profiles around the Internet at http://calc.petalphile.com/contribute_translation

The old, smaller, English-only version of Yet Another Nutrient Calculator is now known as http://tinycalc.petalphile.com

Thanks!


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## PhySix66

Hi every one!

First of all I'd like to say that I'm from Hungary so excuse me if my gramma isn't that good. 
I've been mixing up some DIY Macro & Micro fertilizers my self for the last 1,5 year or so. I've even created a dosing calculator in excel to calculate how mutch ingredient I need in my mixture. Today I was about to simplify my table, when I found something strange in it, an error if you will. I've searched the web for an anwser to my dilemma witch is:
Is Boron as B-ion or as BO3(3-) bioavalible for the plants?

_Meanwhile another question is formet in my head. - never mind.... I've figured it out 
Actualy this whould have been my first question, but I've found the anwser. Sorry if my post ended in the wrong sub-forum or what the term is._

A BIG thums UP for the creator of this calculator!


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## brandon 75 gallon planted

*Thanks for Sharing*

thanks for sharing this, i'm working on getting my tank back up and going. i will be using this latter tonight.


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## rahlcepx516

Switched over from EI to PPS hybrid this week. Just wanted to drop by again and state how much I love this thing


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## mistergreen

In the commercial ferts option ml, capfuls,pump; what are the measurements on caps and pump? I think a capfull is 5 ml.

*After a little digging:
cap - 5ml
pump - ~1.2 ml (can vary a lot)


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## wet

Thank you 

mistergreen, you've got it. The exception for pumps is RootMedic, which is 0.5mL per "pump" per Overstocked. You'll also find some translations on the calc refer to a bottlecap as a teaspoon.


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## mistergreen

Found a bug for you wet,
When set to 

Hagen Plant Grow NPK:
NO3: 0.6
N: 0.136
P2O5: 0.3
P: 0.131
PO4: 0.4
K2O: 2.4
K: 1.99
Cu: 0.01
target: Fe

It errors out because there's no 'Fe' as the Target. I only spotted it because it errors out for me too


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## wet

Thanks mistergreen!

Here's more for you -- 

Tautvilas's contribution for VIMI, which is popular in the Baltic states: http://git.io/mMuxbQ

Toby's Spezial N, which is big in Europe, and George Farmer is into it: http://git.io/f_Dgzw

Working on v2 of your iPhone app? May I call it a fork for the purposes of yanc's readme and linkage?


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## mistergreen

wet said:


> Working on v2 of your iPhone app? May I call it a fork for the purposes of yanc's readme and linkage?


Yeah, you can call it a fork. It shares the same constants. The rest is different though.


I'm running into a problem with figuring out how much in (mL) of the commercial products. Getting the dry ferts was easy but I'm not sure how to get commercial liquid ferts.

so far I have


Code:


mG = targetPPM * tankLiter / targetMol / 1000;

So this gets milligram of the stuff in a tank but how do I get the milliliter in commercial ferts?


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## wet

mistergreen,

The short answer is to change ratio of Stuff in your formula to % in solution (the http://git.io/pvd0_A constants), then divide by 10. 

It helps if you think of it as standardizing units in the formulas.

ppm is really parts per million, or mg/L.
% is really parts per hundred, or 10mg/mL.

The way YANC deals with this is to just adjust at the end of the calculation based on input source, before rounding. I thought about standardizing both the dry Stuff (currently mass ratio -- mg Stuff/mg Source) and premixed Stuff (currently percent in solution -- 10mg Stuff/mL premixed solution) into some unit, but ultimately I've found it's easier to keep adding new stuff by using the standards everyone is familiar with for constants, then deal with these differences in the code. Still, yes, it's kind of silly manufacturers use % instead of, say, mg/mL for commercial products aimed at the aquarium, but I don't blame them because lots of folks are more comfortable with % as the standard for everything.


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## mistergreen

Thanks, I had a feeling those numbers were something else besides atomic weight ratio.


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## mistergreen

Hey, do you want to add http://www.aquavitro.com into the mix? It's starting to hit the market.


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## wet

You've got it, mistergreen: http://git.io/Oo2sqA

There's a lot that is confusing about their new format (and lack of a nice msds-like table on aquavitro.com ). Going to expand in that thread on this forum.


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## mistergreen

Haha, you left out all of the fancy amino and fatty acids.


So does you calculator read the yml file for the constants? I have to plug it in by hand for mine since it's not depend on internet connection.

Glad to say I'm finally done with my calculator except for plugin in some ferts.


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## wet

Heh, yeah. I'm just not going to do it -- the ADA magic stuff is left out, too, for example.

re the constants: YANC's servers reads all the files (the Stuff constants, the dosing recs, the translations) locally and just stores them into memory. So while there's an internet connection required for most folks to access the server, someone could totally take the source and run the server locally on their computer and not need any Internet connection. When folks ask about a standalone desktop app, I usually think I'd learn how to bundle up the server and UI on top of some JVM. Maybe http://shoesrb.com/

But your way with Objective-C is way cooler and I would like to learn Objective-C at some point. Excited for you for releasing your new version.

There is an API for YANC I could open up, though. I've always hoped someone with UI skills would want to collaborate and make a prettier and friendlier and more usable frontend, then let this existing app (with whatever modifications come from that collaboration, and all the contributions from our community) take care of all the math and translations for them. So it goes.


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## mistergreen

If you made the constants into xml or json format, it would be more Model-view-Controller friendly. It can be ported to Flash, desktop app, phone app etc..

Right now I'm manually plugging the cosntants into an array. If it was in an xml format I can just copy the xml file over or even have the app download it off the internet on the first run.

Or I need to find a yml parser library somewhere. I haven't seen one.


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## wet

It's just yaml and only trivially different than json and xml as you know, though yeah, I do prefer json with everything. The only reason its still in yaml is this was my first hash-into-a-file thing in Ruby. The conversion to a new conf file is a lot simpler than you may think: 

https://gist.github.com/1695816
https://gist.github.com/1695884

I like your idea and can make some resources! Again, there's actually three files and you are welcome to all of them. How about some path like http://calc.petalphile.com/api/compounds.json , http://calc.petalphile.com/api/dosing_methods.json , etc?

(Because if we're going to convert, lets use json instead of xml  )


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## wet

Decided to just do it 

DIY/dry compounds: http://calc.petalphile.com/api/compounds.json
Pre-mixed/commercial stuff: http://calc.petalphile.com/api/commercial_products.json
Dosing recommendations for EI, PPS-Pro, PMDD, etc: http://calc.petalphile.com/api/dosing_methods.json
These resources: http://calc.petalphile.com/api/resources.json

We can make that more RESTful if you want, but should let you do the great download-new-compounds-without-updating idea you have.

BTW, just now received and added Tautvilas's Lithuanian translation. Are you interested in translations as well? (This is an example where it is easier for non-technical users to edit the configuration with yaml vs json or xml, but I can convert these to json as above for your app, and keep it yaml for contributors.)

What do you think?


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## mistergreen

Good thing you converted this because I think I just hit a memory limit. Adding all those ferts/numbers into one array crashes the app when I try to read a certain ferts down in the array. It must be a memory leak somewhere. I'm going to have to find another way to access the ferts.

Your jsons are forbidden. I can't see it. Oh, can you put a version number on it if you haven't already? The app can check on the version number to see if it needs to download the json or not.

I don't need the translation for now


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## wet

re forbidden: yeah that's Rack's XSS protection from the redirect off TPT. Try refreshing those tabs or copy pasting (so there is no more cross origin issue)? When your app/curl/etc gets these resources it should be fine.

Added a Last_updated (just unix time to make it easier for the app) into resources.json , which will update if any other resource changes. I gotta bake proper versioning along with a real API once I get around to it.


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## mistergreen

Thanks. My ferts apps due date is pushed back for some over-haul


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## mistergreen

hey, can you format the json with name pairs?

something like:


Code:


{"compound":[{"name":"Pfertz K","K":4.2,"target":"K","K2O":5.1},{"name":"ADA Bright K","K":6.8,"target":"K"}]}

It's easier to find ferts and set up the menu by "name" instead of "Pfertz K", "ADA Bright" like in the current json.


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## Mysphit

Might be a stupid question, and by all means anyone that can help me understand this better please do PM me. 

Would it be possible to list all of the ferts we dose with and have it adjust to the appropriate measures since i've noticed some contain the same elements? Possibly have it show a list of deficiencies as well?


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## wet

mistergreen,

Sure - you've got it under the /api resources above.

Mysphit,

You mean a way to sum up all the bits of all the things you are dosing? Then maybe some sort of alert if you're under everybody's (EI, PPS-Pro, Walstad, PMDD for everything but P...) guidelines? I think this is the feature most people want next and the next I'll get around to on this calculator.

In the meantime, patw's Excel spreadsheet sums stuff up for you: http://www.aquaticplantenthusiasts....tion-spreadsheet-stocksolpro-3.html#post28484 I think mistergreen's iApp has a calendar and may be able to sum stuff up.

But in terms of practical gardening, I do have tips. The only thing I've seen this happen with is K (maybe Ca in some folks's tanks or compound choices). And we don't have to care so much about K.

1) If you regularly dose for NO3, you probably don't need to worry about K.
2) If you are dosing a GH booster, you probably don't need to worry about K.
3) If you aren't doing 1) or 2), you should dose K from a K-source (like K2SO4 or KCl) as if you do not have K from anything else (10-20ppm per week). The K you may get from, say, a PO4 or trace source isn't enough to matter.

Its a good feature request though. I need to get around to it. But I hope this helps.


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## mistergreen

wet said:


> mistergreen,
> 
> Sure - you've got it under the /api resources above.


Thanks, I went a head and formatted it by hand a few weeks ago but this will be handy for other developers.

My app is finished and on the app store.


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## wet

'grats!

Sorry for my delay though. Not so much hobby time lately.


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## rodriga

*Tank Water Gallons*

I have not found a reference to this:

Is the water quantity an actual amount of water or is it the tank size?

I have a 50 gal tank, but it is loaded with plants, driftwood, gravel etc. I know that I don't have 50 gals of water in it. I have probably 35 gals in it.

When using the calculator, do I use 50 or 35 gals?


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## mistergreen

rodriga said:


> I have not found a reference to this:
> 
> Is the water quantity an actual amount of water or is it the tank size?
> 
> I have a 50 gal tank, but it is loaded with plants, driftwood, gravel etc. I know that I don't have 50 gals of water in it. I have probably 35 gals in it.
> 
> When using the calculator, do I use 50 or 35 gals?


Volume of water really


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## happi

how come there is no UREA in the calc??


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## mistergreen

You can get pure urea?


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## happi

mistergreen said:


> You can get pure urea?


i been using it, am not sure if its pure or not, but the bag says Urea on it.

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm was down yesterday but working now, they have the urea option there, i thought we could use the same on wet's calc.


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## aereolis

Is there a similar other product listed in your calc that I could use for this product : 
http://www.hydrotechhydroponics.com/product/trace-elements-2000g-0
I tried two "plant product chelated" and "Plantex csm+B" but got different numbers.

I have a scale accurate to .01 g so if necessary can help with a few things...


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## mistergreen

aereolis said:


> Is there a similar other product listed in your calc that I could use for this product :
> http://www.hydrotechhydroponics.com/product/trace-elements-2000g-0
> I tried two "plant product chelated" and "Plantex csm+B" but got different numbers.
> 
> I have a scale accurate to .01 g so if necessary can help with a few things...


What's the chemical break down on this trace?


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## aereolis

mistergreen said:


> What's the chemical break down on this trace?


edta chelated micros actual
iron 5%
maganese 2%
zinc .4%
copper .1%
dpta chelated micro actual
iron 2%
not chelated
boron 1.3%
molybdenum .06%


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## mistergreen

aereolis said:


> edta chelated micros actual
> iron 5%
> maganese 2%
> zinc .4%
> copper .1%
> dpta chelated micro actual
> iron 2%
> not chelated
> boron 1.3%
> molybdenum .06%


The copper concentration looks high. You'd want .001%.
So whatever the measurement for plantex turns out to be, x / 1000 = ?
Dividing it by 1000 will give you your measurement.


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## Martincape

Hi,

Any chance of adding TNC Trace to the list pal?


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## rlswaney73

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## Blacktetra

the link provided by this sticky doesn't seem to be working anymore.


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## dru

The site has been down for sometime

Are there any alternatives?


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## cmdR_CHRIS

Wet has passed on. kisanjong on http://www.barrreport.com/ has recreated the website.
http://rotalabutterfly.com honours the memory of the late Carlo Flores aka Wet aka Rotala Butterfly.


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## Aquaticz

Does anyone know what happened to my online friend?
Thank you


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## HaeSuse

Maybe we should remove this link/calculator from the link on the Stickied Fert FAQ?


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