# suggestions for a 20g long(plants fish equipment) for a beginner on a budget.



## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

Hi everyone. I am new to the hobby and would love some input on a low cost combination of fish plants and equipment. I have a 20g long with a 50w heater a 100g per hour filter a Hood with two light fixtures. Any and all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.


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## KShoes (Sep 29, 2009)

Hi dal, I'm not sure what you have in terms of lighting but if its low lighting; anubias, java ferns, and java moss are the names I hear for beginners. If its high lighting, I've had success with rotala rotundifolia and hygrophilia polysmera 'sunset' (I'm currently running 65W over 20g tall). I also started with cories and harlequin rasboras. The rasboras are very hardy and have not lost one yet. However, with cories; you need to be careful with your substrate. My panda cories have had their barbels erroded from my eco-complete.

Another thing: if you're on a budget, the S&S section is great. You can usually find some ROAK's and some sellers are very generous with their portions.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Welcome to TPT!

IMO the most crucial decision in setting up a low tech tank is picking out the right light fixture- you need enough to support plant growth, but not too much or you'll end up in the high light/high tech (and high $$ lol) category.

What type of light fixtures do you have?


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

I'm actually not sure what I'm getting(other than the size of the tank) because someone is giving me the equipment and it hasn't been delivered yet. I'm unsure of the wattage of the lights but I think I would like to plant java ferns and anubias because they are apparently quite resilient. For fish I was thinking 
6 x Harlequin Rasboras
1 x Bristlenose Peco
2 x Cherry/ghost Shrimp
2 x swordtails

Any suggestions, tips, advice? Am I completely off track with my setup?


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

So I was looking through the photo gallery on this site and came across this.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pGallery.php?do=view&rdo=homepage&id=923&cat=0&order=None&page=13


If anyone sees this and has any suggestions or tips about how I might achieve this type of a setup, it would be greatly appreciated. I am new to the hobby but I am willing to put in the work. Id still like to populate my 20g long with the above posted fish.


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## Hyzer (Mar 9, 2010)

That tank has mostly moderate-high need plants. Keeping it cheap and low tech can definitely produce something amazing, but probably not as dense as that. Figure out what type of lighting you have coming to you as a good starting point.

Like lauraleellbp said, more light is not better when it comes to new aquatic gardeners. Don't rush out and buy the t5ho fixture. I wish I had gone with less light for my first setup because I don't have the money, time, and knowledge to support a high tech tank at the moment.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

dal924 said:


> So I was looking through the photo gallery on this site and came across this.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pGallery.php?do=view&rdo=homepage&id=923&cat=0&order=None&page=13
> 
> ...


That's definitely a CO2-injected tank. You could probably achieve similar results running 2x 2L bottles of DIY on either end of the tank, though. You'll need moderate lighting and a balanced fert regimen worked out. A nutrient-containing substrate would be a benefit too. If you want to do that on the cheap, check out the Mineralized Topsoil sticky at the top of the Substrate forum.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

*lauraleellbp and Hyzer, 

Thank you very much for your help. I've been reading forums for hours and have spent way too much time at work combing through aquarium beginner guides. Some of your abbreviations are foreign to me though so if you could baby me as much as possible that would be awesome. Do Java Moss, Fern and Anubias require CO2 injections to survive? or atleast look and be healthy? I am kind of intimidated by CO2 injection to be honest lol. Your continued advice and answers to my questions would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking maybe that tank i linked may be out of my price range and more importantly, skill level.
*


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No, java ferns and anubias can grow quite well without CO2. The trick will be to keep the light levels just right so that there's enough light to support some growth, but not too much light or you'll end up with algae.

You WOULD need to run CO2 to grow a tank like you linked from the photo gallery, though.

Once you get the tank you can post up what light fixture comes with it so we'll all know what you're working with.

If you're handy with electrical DIY you can also make your own light fixture and get everything you need from a hardware store like Home Depot or Lowes.


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## vacaloca (Sep 28, 2009)

dal924 said:


> 2 x Cherry/ghost Shrimp



Do you mean 2x cherry, and 2x ghost? If so, I would watch them. There's a chance of the ghost eating the cherry. Also, I've seen prawns sold as ghost shrimp, then actually start attacking fish. No fun. Enjoy the new tank!


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

I meant cherry or ghost but my local pet store has cherry so I'm going with those. I will post what type of fixtures I have tonight. Also are there different sizes of flourite? And if so which is best for my tank?
Thanks


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## fish h20 (May 5, 2009)

I would suggest Mineralized Top Soil capped with small gravel (very cheap and better than almost anything you can buy to grow plants). Submariner style UV filter ($30 on ebay). T12 or T8 lights (cheap and low enough light levels). The plants you listed sound fine but you may want to add floating plants and some stem plants for faster growth.


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## fish h20 (May 5, 2009)

The Rotala Rotundifolia and Hygrophilia Polysmera 'sunset' that were posted already would be great stem plants for you. Duckweed (some people hate the stuff) or Watersprite are good floating plants.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

Does anyone have any thoughts on carribean sea eco complete? My pet store reccomened it to me.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Lots of people use and like Eco.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> Lots of people use and like Eco.


+1 I know I do. 

I also like to use premium play sand since I'm too am _trying_ to be budget-conscious. It's about $3 for a 50lb bag.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

Confirm or deny no need to cycle tanks with many stemmed plants. Can I stock fish immediately?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd cycle the tank.

"Silent cycles" are possible, but take a huge plant mass to very low bioload and very slow stocking. If you want to stock more than a fish every 2 weeks I'd go ahead and do a fishless cycle.

Especially on a low tech tank, since nutrient uptake won't be as much as in a high tech tank.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

OK so the tank came in today. Here's what I've got.
20g long
plastic hood with 1 t8 20W fixture
50w heater
whisper ex30 filter
40lbs of eco complete substrate
12' piece of driftwood
Amonia, ph, nitrate, nitrite test kit
water conditioner.

my ph is between 7.2-7.5

So I went to a prett reputable aquarium store today and the guy helping me was really trying to persuade me to buy a t5 light fixture and get up to about 5 watts per gallon. It was gonna run me over 100$.... not something I wanted to do. So tomorrow I am returning to get fish and plants and I am going to have a list prepared. What can and should I get plant wise with my current set up?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

That guy is just trying to sell you. I can't imagine running 5wpg over a 20gal tank and ESPECIALLY not with a T5 fixture! You'd have to hang it up close to the ceiling to actually have a managable light level LOL

The T8 fixture you've got will work if you just want to stick with slow-growing Java Ferns and Anubias. Crypts would probably also do OK. 

I'd stay away from stems unless you get a dual-bulb T8 fixture, though.

If you put T5 over the tank (even just T5NO) you're likely to also need CO2. DIY CO2 would probably work, or possibly just dosing Excel instead.

If you put T5HO over the tank you'll need to invest $200-300 in a pressurized CO2 setup and get a comprehensive fert regimen worked out.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

This might be a stupid question but can I just get a 40W t8 bulb? 

If I have to stick with the 20W t8, I'll just get java fern, java moss(for the driftwood), anubias. Should i use flourish? The pet store guy recommended that as well.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No.

First of all, it's the ballast that determines how much light is produced by a fixture. So you'd have to replace the ballast to change anything.

Second, flourescent tube bulbs are all standardized wattages based on their length. A 24" T8 bulb (which is probably what's in your fixture?) is going to be 17 watts.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

I was just reading what it said on the bulb. It reads 20w. My biggest problem is that my hood has glass for only one fixture. Whats the cheapest way to upgrade my lighting to 2 watts per gallon?


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## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

dirtyhermit said:


> It's about $3 for a 50lb bag.


Not very space conscious though? What will you do with the other 45lb? :flick:

If you want to replace your light, you could get a couple of cheap clamp lamps from a hardware store for like $10 each with some CFLs. Also, I wouldn't recommend buying fish yet, because that way you will have more elbow room when doing your plants without worrying about stressing your fish or putting in too much CO2, etc.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

so your talking about fluorescent bulbs from home depot? How many watts should i get per clamp lamp? would dividing the wattage by 20 work? How could you put in too much CO2?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The "watts per gallon" guideline only applies if you're using T12 or T8 bulbs. If you go with T5 you only need about 1/2 the wattage.

So if you're handy with electrical DIY you could make or retrofit your own fixture with supplies from Home Depot. 

If you stick with T8 I'd go with 2 bulbs.

If you go with T5, I'd do 2 bulbs but on 2 separate switches so you can run only one bulb most of the time. OR you could get a Coralife T5NO from www.BigAlsOnline.com and raise it 8" or so up off the tank to moderate the light some.

You can poison fish with too much CO2. Doesn't usually happen with DIY CO2, though, usually only pressurized CO2 setups can get the levels that high.


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## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

dal924 said:


> so your talking about fluorescent bulbs from home depot? How many watts should i get per clamp lamp? would dividing the wattage by 20 work? How could you put in too much CO2?


Ignore the watts per gallon rule, here are a couple you could use, I personally use the 8.5 inch ones, but you could use either one.
http://tinyurl.com/25d24vf
The bulbs http://tinyurl.com/27vglvs
I believe they are only 5500K though, so if you have a Lowes near by, you could get some of these 
http://tinyurl.com/2ahvx75
which are 6500K.


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## peter_l (Aug 3, 2008)

Ditto!

I have el-cheapo clamp lights on two of my tanks. The plants are doing great and the lighting effect is great!



VincentK said:


> Not very space conscious though? What will you do with the other 45lb? :flick:
> 
> If you want to replace your light, you could get a couple of cheap clamp lamps from a hardware store for like $10 each with some CFLs. Also, I wouldn't recommend buying fish yet, because that way you will have more elbow room when doing your plants without worrying about stressing your fish or putting in too much CO2, etc.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

wow, thanks for the heads up on the lights. Why would anyone buy crazy expensive light fixtures? How many of those 27W fixtures should i use to best accommodate some stem plants? and how far away from the water should i mount them?


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## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

dal924 said:


> wow, thanks for the heads up on the lights. Why would anyone buy crazy expensive light fixtures? How many of those 27W fixtures should i use to best accommodate some stem plants? and how far away from the water should i mount them?


Those crazy expensive light fixtures let out a lot more light but need CO2 and ferts, but you should be fine, you could probably do two or three, depending on how you mount them, I think 6-10 inches away from the water should be enough.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

I'd like to thank everyone on this thread for helping me out. I feel like I have a good understanding of what I need to do to keep my aquarium healthy and looking the way I want it. I'm Gonna get 2 27w flourescent fixtures and stick with my Java moss cryptos and anubias. Eventually I plan on having 6 bloodfin tetras,6 Harlequin rasboras, 2 swordtail(m+f), 1 clown pleco, 1 oto. Also going to dose flourish excell.


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## peter_l (Aug 3, 2008)

You should keep otos in groups of at least 5 or 6 for them to thrive.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

Thinking about replacing the oto with a SAE. I heard otos are delicate.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IMO a 20gal is on the small side for an SAE. They get pretty big.

Nerite snails may be a better option if you're not sure about Otos.

I usually wait till my plants are pretty well established and I'm sure the tank has stabilized before adding Otos.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Here are some example of simple set ups with low light plants.

lauraleepdp 10G









MrAl 10G









the_noobinator-10G









Anytowl83 20G
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3275/3984378748_802521a03a_m.jpg

MrRed 20G









slickwillislim-29G









Oldplunk 36G









jaidexl









jaidexl 65G









emrextreme1 









natural_expect 









All but last 2 are members in this forum


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

Those are all pretty sweet. What did I do to cause red algae to show up in my Java moss In 2 days after planting? Did it come from the store? And will nerite snails take care of it? If so how many are good for a 20 long?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

dal924 said:


> What did I do to cause red algae to show up in my Java moss.


Could you show a picture? Could be BBA dieing off. Check this out.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

So according to that link its caused by fluctuations in co2 or excess co2 in my tap water. Would twice the reccomended amount of excell be too much of an overdose?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If it's BBA and it's red it's already dead.

(hahaha I'm a poet...)


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

Ohhhh my fault the algae is black. I read that bba is a type of red algae and was referring to it as such. It is black fuzzy and all over my Java moss.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Well then in that case yes, Excel should work.

Double dosage should be fine. Or you could spot-treat it with a syringe/medicne dropper, etc- which I find works best.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

what light range am i in? I have 3 27watt (100w) 5000k flourecent bulbs from home depot on top of a glass cover. The tank is a 20 long with 3" eco complete substrate What lighting range does this put me in? I usually leave the lights on for 12 hours a day. Thanks for your help


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

Are non glazed clay pots from home depot safe to put in my tank?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What kind of bulbs did you get? T8? T5? Spiral flourescent..???

And terracotta pots are fine, yes.


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## dal924 (May 13, 2010)

They are the ones from home depot linked on page 2. They are 27 Watt. I Think they are spiral LOL. Got 3 in fixtures for 25$.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IDK how to estimate the light levels with spirals. I think Hoppy's got a sticky at the top of the lighting forum that does a PAR comparison, though... or a thread somewhere if it's not a sticky...


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