# Cladophora algae's origins?



## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Hell i think!!!!


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

bigstick120 said:


> Hell i think!!!!


:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: 

I nominate this one for post of the day!


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

LOL I agree, but seriously. I mean I might get an answer like, from a river that had this algae, like any other algae that exists in this world, but does it REALLY come from marimo balls, or are they very similar algae.

Right now I'm slowly getting rid of it with excel, but the HC is going away with the algae so it's kind of risky. Its either HC or algae.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

bump? or is this a horrible question that no one will never bother to answer?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

sandiegoryu said:


> bump? or is this a horrible question that no one will never bother to answer?


OK...

I never had clado in my tank until AFTER I put in a Marimo ball. But that is not the case for a conviction IMO, just one isolated piece of evidence for a case.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

All the outbreaks of Cladaphora have originated on bogwood. I've never had a marimo ball.

As for the HC die off during treatment, I would suggest that you oull out the HC and manually remove as much of the Clado as possible. It doesn't attach much to plants so a pair of fine-tipped tweezers should be able to separate it out.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I don't think marimo balls are responsible for Cladaphora, rather any plant Cladaphora hitchhikes with is responsible. I fortunately caught a clado puff from a swap&shop trade here on PTF before I had a chance to put that plant in my community tank. I've also seen a 180gal plant display tank in a local LPS that had 5 marimo balls (not for resale) and the tank had no signs of clado. so draw your own conclusions from my observations. the LPS owner insists marimo balls are a type of moss, not an algae, but whatever...


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Thanks for the tip. So clado algae does not come from marimo balls, but just like any other algae? I see. Well that answers my question I guess. But anyone else who DID have marimo balls and then had an outbreak of clado?


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## General Tso (Mar 1, 2006)

I have had marimo balls for 3 years in all of my tanks ( I move them around when I rescape) and have never had clado. The marimo balls were my first "plants", I bought them thinking they would use up extra nutrients before I knew the dynamics of a planted tank.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Marimo balls are composed of a type of cladophora algae. However, it's the tightly-packed cladophora that becomes hollow after prolonged growing.

The clado we constant fight is a "haystack" thick, flossy type. Different species of the cladophora genus. So no, a "pure" Marimo ball won't give rise to the invasive clado some of us get. 

I had a few tiny strands of clado attached to some riccia I got off the forums here...within a few weeks, it turned into huge clumps that I had to remove every so often. Just yesterday, I did a H2O2 treatment. It's killing off the clado and some thread and BBA algae I had...unfortunately, it also killed off the last of my riccia and the anacharis doesn't look so good at all. =/


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

*epic*, thanks for that interesting clarification.
do you know if ball clado can be transplanted to driftwood?
Manzanita wood covered with that ball clado would be awesome 

sorry about your ricca. i usually isolate all new plants and inspect
for hitchhikers for at least a week before putting them in my tank.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Thanks epicfish, that was the kind of answer I was looking for! So the myth the clado comes from marimo balls is busted lol. Or was I the only one who thought that lol.


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## tao (Apr 21, 2005)

Or they dont come from 'pure' marimo balls. 

Hmm...Well I had the brilliant (sarcasm) idea of a marimo foreground. The clado didn't appear until after I split the little buggers to make them flatter. Personally, I have a theory that it could be a different growing pattern of the same algae. Mostly because when I pulled the clado off the top of the marimo surface (it grew in long thready piles) I kept ending up left with a few well behaved marimo strands and some bba that had gotten into them. So I think it gets a chance to grow when they are split. Some density thing or age thing maybe? 

Also flip through the pics/comments in this article: Japanese moss balls, Cladophora aegagropila, with pictures

When I upped the nitrates, it tended to calm the stuff down.


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## omboocat (Nov 3, 2005)

For several months I was fighting Clado in my 55 high light with pressurized C02. It came in with a plant trade and in a few weeks was covering and killing my plants. Every day I pulled hand fuls out and was getting to the point of throwing all my plants away and completely redoing the tank. I was keeping a light load of fish and numerous nerite snails, but they still did not get rid of it. I keep and breed several strains of snails. Recently began once again raising Mystery snails, so I added about 15 adult ones to this tanks and within a few weeks, I noticed my morning clado pulls were noticable smaller. Within a few more weeks about all the clado was gone, what I found was dying clado and broken bits in the filter cartridge. I informed the perosn who I had received the plants from of my discovery and forwarded him a bunch of adult mystery snails and now he is seeing less in his 75 gallon tank. Today as I was looking my tank over, no more clado.
omboocat


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Thanks for that great discovery! But don't mystery snails eat plants too? I'm thinking if you hate clado, you must love your plants. Do you have a strain that does not eat your plants? Or do they only nibble plants and not do permanent damage?


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## omboocat (Nov 3, 2005)

I have them in several tanks and they don't eat any of my plants,but I only keep the true mystery snails. People began letting them inter breed with apple snails- plant eating ones- and selling them as mystery snails, therefore the true mystery snails are getting a bad rap, such a shame. A few months back, I purchased a group of gold mystery snails- after eating my plants and throughly checking them out, I had been duped into buying apple snails. I finally found the the true gold mystery snails and no plant eating. with their grazing my Clado diis gone. Plants are fine.


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## omboocat (Nov 3, 2005)

By the way, yes I do love my 30 planted tanks, and for awhile was afraid the clado would spread in to these tanks. After trying everything else I figured I had nothing to lose by addign the mystery snails with the plants as the clado was killing them, but now with the clado gone the plants are doing much better. Snails never harmed them as they grazed.
omboocat


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Wow, you did say thirty planted tanks? I imagine none with the mystery snails have pressurized CO2? Can't keep snails in a soft tank. BTW, Excel will fairly well kill clado if dosed heavily enough a few times back to back. The HC should come back too, but the Clado will die. I learned this from John of our forum, and now my clado rarely rears its ugly head. I think I also got it from a PT "swap and shop" trade. Recently I've seen it in a nice local fish store for the first time. I suppose this nasty is spreading around.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

H2O2 is a good treatment against clado too. At least, it worked for me. =)


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Well I am very very very interested in getting me some "pure" mystery snails. Any good site for mystery snails? Searched but found applesnails.net and thats about it. Can't fine good info for how to tell if they are true mystery snails.


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## omboocat (Nov 3, 2005)

If anyone needs mystery snails, I have them for T/S and also I do have two 55 planted tanks with pressurized co2 and my mystery snails have no problems living, good food, proper water changes are the key to keeping them. My golds laid eggs a few weeks ago and now have lots of babies. Most of my other planted tanks have homemade co2 set-ups. I go thru a great dela of plants as I donate the common ones to people from my program. That is the main reason I have 30 planted tanks. 
omboocat
Welcome To Wilma's Home On The Web


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

spypet said:


> *epic, do you know if ball clado can be transplanted to driftwood?
> Manzanita wood covered with that ball Cladophora would be awesome.*


sorry to interrupt your snail tangent, but can anyone answer this question yet?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

I've gotten the tame clado to grow on rocks using mesh to tie it down. It grows over it after a while. 

If you're careful, you can either use mesh or thread to tie it down to wood and I don't forsee any big problems with that at all.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

omboocat said:


> If anyone needs mystery snails, I have them for T/S and also I do have two 55 planted tanks with pressurized co2 and my mystery snails have no problems living, good food, proper water changes are the key to keeping them. My golds laid eggs a few weeks ago and now have lots of babies. Most of my other planted tanks have homemade co2 set-ups. I go thru a great dela of plants as I donate the common ones to people from my program. That is the main reason I have 30 planted tanks.
> omboocat
> Welcome To Wilma's Home On The Web


I am going to guess that your tank with pressurized CO2 is still above or at neutral pH? I say this because I really do like various snails, but can't keep them in a soft water tank without eventually killing them - pits etc in their shells. My pond snails labor away in my CO2 tanks, then die. But I keep some Nerites in a higher pH Cherry shrimp tank. 

BTW, that is a cool program. Did you start it?
Sorry for going off topic here...


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## omboocat (Nov 3, 2005)

Yes, I started the program after I began raisng numerous fry and did not want them here in the LFS as they kill more than they sell. Word spread and soon an Aqua Culture person with the state Board of Education contacted me and then I worked with donating to schools- soon I wnated to work with children who needed encouragement and then I began doanting to those on low incomes and now it has grown to other states and other individuals. It at times is discouraging as i have little money myself to put into the program but what ever i need it always somehow arrives, I have been asked whay I do this but i just feel soemone should help others to enjoy a great hobby. My husband is tickled pink I don't buy diamond rings and expensive clothes, just plants and fish. I sell, plants, fish, and snails to keep it the program going. You can see pics of many I have helped including, the patients at a kidney Dialysis unit, under the smiles section on my web page. This program has helped me so much in gaining knowledge of the hobby. So if you see plants here for sale or trade by me , it is too raise money or to grow a plant for donation. n http://www.jayscustomcomputers.com/wilma/ 
omboocat


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Great program! I see you have many kinds of mystery snails. I read somewhere else that Gold Mystery snails tend to eat plants more. Or all all varieties plant safe? 

And I'm guessing they won't be good for a nano tank unless they are younger.


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## omboocat (Nov 3, 2005)

I don't have a problem with my golds eating plants as long as you feed them well, if you have the true golds you are Ok. I keep severla rare plants in my tanks with them and have no problems. Now my albino bristlenoses I have ve to watch out as they will eat a few of the plants. They are really tough on sword plant leaves. The mysterys do get large enough that a small nano tank would be too small for them such as the 2.5 and anything above a 5 they would be OK. Cherry red shrimp would be better for small tanks and I do keep and breed these also. Anyone in need of these just pm me. I just set up a 2.5 gallon nano tanks with glosso and plan to add a few cherry reds to it to keep algae away. 
omboocat


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## Aquaseafoam (Apr 6, 2006)

sandiegoryu said:


> Well I am very very very interested in getting me some "pure" mystery snails. Any good site for mystery snails? Searched but found applesnails.net and thats about it. Can't fine good info for how to tell if they are true mystery snails.


Mystery snails are technically a type of apple snail. For better clarification the scientific name of the plant eating apple snails is _Pomacea canaliculata_ commonly called "Canas" these snails only come in the yellow and wild (dark brown striped) colors. If you snail is any other color ie: blue purple white... lots of others, it is a "Brig" _Pomacea bridgessii_. Brigs tend not to eat plants unless they are very hungry and not being provided another food source. Many people say they love duckweed, I have some that have eaten some sunset hygro, but I just ordered them so they may have been hungry?
There are very detailed instructions for IDing these snails according to their shell shape on applesnail.net (click "species" on the side bar).
If you happen to see their egg clutch (which will be laid above the water line) Canas will be orange, Brigs will be pinkish.
Also, there has to be a male and a female for them to reproduce, and the eggs are easily removed from the top of the tank or hood so no worries of total domination 
HTH


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## frostby (Sep 22, 2006)

Help!


Does anybody have a pic of 'clado' or 'marimo balls', i'm a little behind on this conversation - is clado the worst of algae types to deal with?


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Yes it is IMO. I've had hair, bba, bga, gsa, gda, and I have gotten rid of all except Clado...

And do a google search for clado and you'll find a picture. And from my knowledge and others, marimo balls are completely different from the algae we know as clado. 

Or you can search the forum. There is bound to be one.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Trim your plants good, Bomb with excel+ water changes.
I've gotten rid of it many times.
Amano shrimp also seem to help fine needle plants/mosses etc as well as Rosy barbs etc for tougher plants.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

You know what's really funny? I actually feel HONORED that Tom Barr has posted on my thread. I've always seen you as some kind of God. I also felt honored when Rex Grigg replied to my thread/questions. LOL. I get happy with small treasures.

Never heard of Rosy Barbs before! New knowledge for me! Hurray! Always love it when I learn new things to kill algae.

It is also strange how my question is where does cladophora come from, and I get discussion on Apple snails and their effectiveness. and Tom Barr giving us tips. And one person asking if he has clado.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

plantbrain said:


> Trim your plants good, Bomb with excel+ water changes.
> I've gotten rid of it many times.
> Amano shrimp also seem to help fine needle plants/mosses etc as well as Rosy barbs etc for tougher plants.
> 
> ...


Trim plants, and Excel OD to get rid of clado? Really...hm, I should get crackin then, cuz the damn thing won't go away! H2O2 helped a lot, but I have yet to try Excel.

Mr. Barr, do you just OD straight into the tank, or spot-treat with a syringe? What about the clado that grows into and underneath the substrate? There's always little strands of it that I can't get, and a few days later, they grow into larger clumps.

It's easy to pull away the larger "balls", but the strands are horrendous to get rid of. And you can't siphon them off during WCs either, since they're wrapped around the substrate.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Many little hammers, not a a Nuke bomb.

Clean as much as you have patience for, which should be most of it, say 95% of it.

Use a net, fluff and preeen any left overs, fine needled plants and places it can get entangled? Trim them good.

I use the full amount on the label for Excel and since I doa water change each day, I do that suggested amount.
5mls per 10 gal.

I turn the lights off, and cover if needed from ambient light, turn off CO2.
I dose after each water change etc.

3 Days later, turn things back on etc.
Nutrients are in good shape, now it's just CO2 and good management from there.

You might need to repeat this a couple of times, but it'll beat most algae up very good with no harm to fish, shrimp or plants.

It comes from? Be more specific, are interested in systematics and evolution or vectors for transmission?

Wind spores can transfer it and it can survive dissecation, so rocks that have spores etc, filter wool, any surface really, other plants, fish etc.

Many sources. Paul Kromboltz claims it comes in from only other tanks/plants etc and good bleach dips prevents any infection but I have serious doubts that this cures anything and bleach dips most certainly hurt many plants.

Now about the other question.........

When growth *conditions are favorable*, Cladophora reproduces *asexually*. The adult alga divides, forming zoospores or flagellated spores that are smaller than the parent cell. A spore is a haploid body that develops into a mature adult. When growth conditions are *unfavorable*, like after a water change, or when the CO2 drops etc Cladophora reproduces sexually. Ask yourself why might they do this when things go bad?

Gametes from two different mating gamates come into contact and join to form a zygote. When a zygospore germinates, it produces *four zoospore *by meiosis. These are sometimes referred to a mega spores. They are quite large and only takes about 2-4 hours for them to form and be expelled from the parental cells. A heavy wall forms around the zygote and it becomes a resistant zygospore, which is able to survive *until conditions are favorable for germination*. It's like a seed bank in your tank, they are just waiting. The zoospores are haploid and are released in the spring or when things go bad in the tank to grow into adult algal filaments. Isogamy (GK. isos: equal and gamos: marriage, union) is the conditions where gametes are identical. These gametes are known as isogametes. (Mader, pg. 525).

Do a Google for this and give it a read.

S. Ross, R. Sheath, K. Müller 39 Molecular Phylogeography and Species Discrimination of Freshwater Cladophora 

That will give you a better understanding of the taxonomy.

I'll go into such details in much more length a review most of the published works on my site later this spring when I address algae in ernest.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## frostby (Sep 22, 2006)

LOL, Clado, that sounds like a STD!

Ok, unappropriate but my naughty side couldn't resist!

is this what it really looks like?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

frostby said:


> LOL, Clado, that sounds like a STD!
> 
> Ok, unappropriate but my naughty side couldn't resist!
> 
> is this what it really looks like?


I believe that might me the "good" clado that's also called Marimo balls. But it's still algae, nonetheless.

Mr. Barr and I are talking about the devil clado that is taking over my tank. =)

Thanks Tom for the answer. I'll try that and report back and maybe as you for more help. =P


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## frostby (Sep 22, 2006)

So, what does the BAD stuff look like?


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## pbohart (Jan 9, 2005)

Cladaphora


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## frostby (Sep 22, 2006)

Hard to see what it is here...anyone else?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/Algae/Cladophora_sp1/Cladophora_sp1_DSCN6507.JPG


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

http://www.aquarium-kosmos.de/bilder/aufsaetze/cladophora_aquarium.jpg


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

http://tinyurl.com/y5aeus


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