# 20L Downoi Farm **3/26/11 update**



## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

3/26 update 
This tank is now an emersed tank with parva carpet still in tact. My farm is now upgraded to a 40B due to rising gas prices. 

2/11 update
This tank is no longer a Betta haven. I sold off the bettas I had left and turned it into a High Tech plant farm :biggrin:

_______________________________________________________________



I was given the opportunity to raise a brood of Betta Albimarginatas about 3 months ago and ever since I took them in, they've been housed in a makeshift bare bottom 10g. Now they've outgrown that 10g and require a slightly larger home. Living in a small apartment, I don't have much room as it is, but I was able to cram an extra 20L onto my Betta shelf inside my room. :icon_mrgr. My goal was to make this tank a super low tech setup with no CO2 and very minor dosing, if any. Crypts and java ferns were the main plants I had in mind.

I was able to grab a bunch of plants from my fellow sfbaaps club members and also got my hands on some decent manzanita branches at the same time. This was how it looked without plants about 3 weeks ago: 









Before we go any further, here are the specs on this tank:
- 20g long 
- Filtration: [STRIKE]Fluval 403 [/STRIKE] Eheim 2234
- Substrate: ADA AS II 
- Lights: 2x26W GE 6500K twirlies

Plants: Needle leaf java fern, Crypt green gecko, C. rosanervig, C. wendii ??, C. hudoroi, C. parva, Staurogyne sp. tropica, [STRIKE]downoi[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]HM[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]anubia nana petite[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]and mini X-mas moss[/STRIKE]. 

This is how the tank looks currently. It's been cycled for about a week already. Some of the crypts are doing their melt thing, but most are already throwing out fresh leaves. The Bettas love it in there.

Inhabitants:


















foreground









FTS's


















Now for the fish to mature and start breeding like rabbits. I hope :biggrin:

Thanks for looking guys.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

that's one hell of a start *subscribed*


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Another awsome tank. Can't wait to see this come together. I really need to go to a sfbaaps event and meet some of you guys.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks fellas. 

Talon - you should def join the club. We've got an awesome group there. What are you waiting for  ?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Love the Layout! Thinking of going wiht the Rutilans personally as they are small and nice red coloring, would love the Albi's but the place I'm getting fish as I have credit to use there can't get these.

Craug


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## AlexXx (Dec 1, 2009)

I love the hill and the branches! I am going for a similar look in my 10, im restarting it 2marrow, but ill be using some rocks to! Cant wait to see this one grow


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craig - good luck to you man. I've never kept nor heard of Rutilans till you said it. They look nice, but I think you're just settling with them and won't be fully content in the long run. I say grab a breeding pair of Albis and make your own stock. That's how I got mine.  Although the male was already carrying eggs when I "borrowed" the pair. It sped up the process. For what it's worth, I'm already thinking about upgrading to a pair of Macrostomas. I thought I was content with just Albis. NOPE!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

A well-rendered fish species display in a planted tank--an awesome concept.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> Craig - good luck to you man. I've never kept nor heard of Rutilans till you said it. They look nice, but I think you're just settling with them and won't be fully content in the long run. I say grab a breeding pair of Albis and make your own stock. That's how I got mine.  Although the male was already carrying eggs when I "borrowed" the pair. It sped up the process. For what it's worth, I'm already thinking about upgrading to a pair of Macrostomas. I thought I was content with just Albis. NOPE!


:confused1: Yeah, I'm actually in the market for some Albis, also came across some Channoides which look almsot identical in color, and size I know where to get some pairs for the tank if I go wiht Channoides. How many Albis do you have? :redface:

Craig


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> A well-rendered fish species display in a planted tank--an awesome concept.


That's my goal bro. Wish me luck. :redface:



Craigthor said:


> :confused1: Yeah, I'm actually in the market for some Albis, also came across some Channoides which look almsot identical in color, and size I know where to get some pairs for the tank if I go wiht Channoides. How many Albis do you have? :redface:
> 
> Craig


Channoides are pretty much the same as Albimarginatas except their white fins are not as distinguished. 

I'm actually getting a pair of Channoides donated to me next week. Can't wait to see how these guys really compare with the Albis. As far as how many... I have 14 sub adults and 20 three week old frys. I haven't actually bred any of these fish myself yet. I just raised them.

Here are a couple more pics of the sub adults enjoying their new home: young male









females chillin


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> I have 14 sub adults and 20 three week old frys. I haven't actually bred any of these fish myself yet. I just raised them.


 
Cheater.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Two new kids in town. Just got these guys in today. They look pretty cool and will be part of the cleanup crew: Pitbull pleco


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

Ooooooo Love the set up!!! And the betta in the first post second picture is beautiful. What kind is it? And what moss did you attach to manzy? Taiwan?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

funkyfish said:


> Ooooooo Love the set up!!! And the betta in the first post second picture is beautiful. What kind is it? And what moss did you attach to manzy? Taiwan?


Fish is a Betta Albimarginata


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## AlexXx (Dec 1, 2009)

What are those plants all around this little guy!? I have one, but no idea what it is, and it has yet to grow at all in 2 months... lol. But its still green as can be.


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> Fish is a Betta Albimarginata


Thanks! I need to get a pair of these for my 55g set up. I love the coloration of the fins, almost looks like marine species


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Just a quick update. Everything is growing in slow now that I've taken out the HM. Added a few new crypts that I was able to get from our club members: C. bullosa and C. pygmaea

The moss is growing in faster then expected, but it's a good thing . 









staurogyne sp. tropica 049 grows very well 'low tech' 









Maybe someone can help me ID this crypt?


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

hey! i got those lamps too! haha $5 at walmart ftw

btw, where'd you get that pitbull pleco?


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

Looks great! The moss growing in very niceley  
What are those big leaves in the right corner?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

IWANNAGOFAST said:


> hey! i got those lamps too! haha $5 at walmart ftw
> 
> btw, where'd you get that pitbull pleco?


I got it from Seascapes in Mt. View. $4.99+tax iirc. Love these lights... they don't sell em anymore tho. At least not the exact model. :thumbsdow



funkyfish said:


> Looks great! The moss growing in very niceley
> What are those big leaves in the right corner?


Thanks funkyfish.

The leaves are Indian Almond leaves to bring down my pH. The bettas love it.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Zomg I love your tank  The starguyone grows pretty well in low tech? I might get some now


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

chase127 said:


> Zomg I love your tank  The starguyone grows pretty well in low tech? I might get some now


Thanks :thumbsup:

Yup Staurogyne sp. Tropica 049 aka 'low grow' does very well actually, in this tank: No CO2, no NPK dosing, and 52w of CFL lighting. I only dose csm+b 10ml once every 2 weeks maybe. 

The staurogyne grows very different in my hightech 40breeder. It stays smaller in leaf size and sits very low to the substrate.


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

They must be giddy!


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

chase127 said:


> Zomg I love your tank  The starguyone grows pretty well in low tech? I might get some now


I think this tank is really cool too. There is a nice sense of flow and tranquility in your setup.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I can't even pronounce your tank name in my head. :flick:ROFL

It's been a month- NEED MOR FISH PICS! :icon_mrgr


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Fat Guy said:


> I think this tank is really cool too. There is a nice sense of flow and tranquility in your setup.


Thanks bro. :thumbsup:



lauraleellbp said:


> I can't even pronounce your tank name in my head. :flick:ROFL
> 
> It's been a month- NEED MOR FISH PICS! :icon_mrgr


lol I'll try to snap some fish pics for ya. These guys are super camera shy. They sit so still 90% of the time I can't even tell I have fish in there most of the time.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> Thanks bro. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> lol I'll try to snap some fish pics for ya. These guys are super camera shy. They sit so still 90% of the time I can't even tell I have fish in there most of the time.


 
I think that is what is so sweet about hte Albis' they are very slow moving peaceful fish.


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## DeepDownAbove (Nov 16, 2009)

Yep downright fantastic. I love the space!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Here's a few snaps I got this afternoon of a few inhabitants. The males Albis weren't flashing so I didn't get any shots of them. 










Otos - for some reason, these guys aren't shy at all compared to other otos I've kept before. They graze all day long.









pitbull pleco


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

Slow down! i'm still drooling on that first moss picture.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

!shadow! said:


> Slow down! i'm still drooling on that first moss picture.


hahahaha!!!!!!!

what do u think about the pit bull pleco? i have one but he doesn do much


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Plecos in general are nocturnal. However I do notice my young plecos quite active in this tank. They'll get less and less active during the day as they grow older.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This is really nice.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Quick update:

For some reason my green crypts are developing holes in their leaves. Some are melting a couple melted all together. Could this be K deficiency? I may have to dose some GH booster as well since I'm using RO water. Everything else is doing great. The moss is growing like mad. 

Some fish shots for you guys: female and colored up male









3 females


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Looks like you'll have some spawning soon there Speedie! I do use GH booster in my tank along with a bit of baking soda for the KH as the plants use it and the snails need it.

Craig


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Ugh, im really sad my female albimarginata didnt make it through shipping  your pics are amazing!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> Looks like you'll have some spawning soon there Speedie! I do use GH booster in my tank along with a bit of baking soda for the KH as the plants use it and the snails need it.
> 
> Craig


Yeah I suspect that fat female will soon be tossing eggs with one of my bigger males. These fish are quite prolific from what I've been told. You have to actually seperate the males right after they release a batch of babies or else it'll get right back into mating and starve to death. 

I've got a fresh bag of GH booster that just arrived in the mail today, so I'll have to look up how many teaspoons/gal I'll need to be dosing. I know you told me in a PM somewhere... IIRC. 



chase127 said:


> Ugh, im really sad my female albimarginata didnt make it through shipping  your pics are amazing!


I'm currently selling 2 batches atm. Lemme know if you need another pair or trio or more. :hihi:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

So tempted :O


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

chase127 said:


> So tempted :O


LMK... I'm making room for these bad boys: Betta Macrostoma - this little fella is maybe 2 months old. 









Can't wait for them to grow up.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Very nice  I'd be in if they wouldn't decimate my shrimp population, but I know theyre hungry buggers :hihi:


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> Quick update:
> For some reason my green crypts are developing holes in their leaves. Some are melting a couple melted all together. Could this be K deficiency?


Yes! I find dosing with KNO3 alleviates the problem.


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## Flippy (Apr 19, 2010)

Nice tank and some very nice fish too!


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## Deathscythe617 (Apr 8, 2010)

And you did this with no cO2! Dang! What beautiful results! I love the coloration of your mosses they contrast perfectly with the light green of your other plants! So amazing! 
What kind of light/bulb is that? I would really like to know!

Awesome job man!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

This may bore most but I just witnessed some of the most amazing courting/mating ritual today. The females of these fish are absolutely the most accepting fish ever in my book. I gotta give credit to the males as well because 2 of them were tag teaming one female. They were having a monojetwa (sound it out).

As the males took turns wrapping the female, 5-10 eggs would be deposited onto the males anal fin. The male is pretty much frozen for 4-5 seconds during this time. The female and the other male would race to pick up all the eggs off the dazed male. After this, the female would spit the eggs out sometimes 3 at a time. As the eggs are spat out, the males dart at them before the female can catch them again. 

What I found hilarious was that at times the 2 males would wrap each other to find out no eggs were deposited lol. 

While the trio were spawning, another pair decided to join in and they also mated as well. I think I sparked the Albi love flame by doing a 50% WC 2 days ago. Mind you, this was the first WC since this tank was set up. 

Now I got three holding males and nowhere to raise these new babies. wth did I get myself into? On one hand, I'm hoping these new unexperienced fathers will swallow their eggs, but I also want to see if they're good fathers and hope they won't eat them. Let's see where we get with just going with the flow. 

Here are some 'not so good' pics I tried to capture. They picked the tightest spot in the tank to mate so that made picture taking quite a challenge. 

Trio group shot









Bisexuality is also seen in fish. Here's proof.









Egg tossing 









FTS for the hell of it. 









Thanks for looking folks!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice! I know I did a large water change today and had a couple in breeding dress. The females look so beautiful in breeding colors don't they!

Craig


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## MWBradshaw (Mar 21, 2010)

Wow, your tank looks awesome!! How did you get that moss to hold onto your Manzanita? I have some and I like the look!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Wow, I really always wonder how well someone's next tank will come out when they do one so well (your 40b). This is just awesome and so different. You got a knack for this, beautiful so far.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the nice comments. 



Craigthor said:


> Nice! I know I did a large water change today and had a couple in breeding dress. The females look so beautiful in breeding colors don't they!
> 
> Craig


They're indeed. I still like the males better though :tongue:.



MWBradshaw said:


> Wow, your tank looks awesome!! How did you get that moss to hold onto your Manzanita? I have some and I like the look!


Thanks! I used sewing thread to wrap each branch kinda going in a spiraling direction with the moss laid on top. I did this same look for a friend and used super glue gel. It worked very well and alot easier to do.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> Thanks guys! I really appreciate the nice comments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can send me all your females then.  I enjoy the Dimorphism of them, wish I could tell if my male held full term or not as when I did my water change today I found out I have 2 males that are the same size now so I don't know what to think.

Craig


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Congrats on the spawnage, and what awesome pics!! :icon_smil


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> You can send me all your females then.  I enjoy the Dimorphism of them, wish I could tell if my male held full term or not as when I did my water change today I found out I have 2 males that are the same size now so I don't know what to think.
> 
> Craig


Isolate both males. Fatten them up and in about 2 weeks they should be ready for some action. :hihi:



lauraleellbp said:


> Congrats on the spawnage, and what awesome pics!! :icon_smil


Gracias Laura. :smile:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

If your interested in a bit of Albi history I have posted some info on the last page of my 150g riparium post.


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## husonfirst (Sep 12, 2009)

Wow, those are some great pics.


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## MWBradshaw (Mar 21, 2010)

speedie408 said:


> Thanks! I used sewing thread to wrap each branch kinda going in a spiraling direction with the moss laid on top. I did this same look for a friend and used super glue gel. It worked very well and alot easier to do.


Hmm...that is easy enough!! I plan on tying a few Anubias to my driftwood here soon but I guess I never would have thought of that. And you can't tell that by looking at your pictures either.


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## tak13 (Jan 12, 2010)

May I ask what is the brand or name of the lamp that you have there?
I plan to move all my stuff to a 10g tank so, for the price those lamps is definitely good deal.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

tak13 said:


> May I ask what is the brand or name of the lamp that you have there?
> I plan to move all my stuff to a 10g tank so, for the price those lamps is definitely good deal.


It's an el cheapo Mainstays gooseneck lamp from Wallyworld. This model I believe is currently discontinued. They do sell a newer model, but I saw it and it's not as good because the clip is all metal now, instead of abs plastic. 
If you can find any clip on desk lamp similar, it'll work fine as long as you're using the correct bulbs. I like the GE 26W 6500K "daylight" cfl bulbs, also sold at Wallyworld or Target.


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## Lance Uppercut (Aug 22, 2009)

I LOVE these fish and this setup <subscribed>. After my P.taeniatus are gone, I'm making these the "main" fish in my tank. Any updates?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

The moss on your wood is awesome. How did you start them off?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Lance - Thanks buddy!

Zoo - I just tied them down with sewing thread but that was not the smartest idea. The moss proved to be stronger than the thread and whatever moss that's not holding has came off some branches. The thread pretty much melted over these past few months. 

Update: Moss is growing like crazy and everything else is stable. I've been dosing GH booster but that's about it.


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## benon (Feb 18, 2010)

Yep, this tank is a beaut. I love the style, the rimmed tank, the lights (which I am curious about. How much and where?), and the crazy moss spider in the middle.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

benon said:


> Yep, this tank is a beaut. I love the style, the rimmed tank, the lights (which I am curious about. How much and where?), and the crazy moss spider in the middle.


Thanks brotha. Everyone seems to like these lights a lot... too bad Wallyworld discontinued this exact model :thumbsdow. They sell a similar model but all metal now, with a slightly smaller reflector. I liked the old model because it's got plastic clips making it safer to use.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

How in the world did I miss this thread? Nice scape bro! 'Grats on the spawns!


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## Flippy (Apr 19, 2010)

All i can say is OMG! :drool: This has got to be one of the most beautiful tanks I have ever seen! I believe I may even try to replicate it, it is so pretty (If that is okay with you of course!  )


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

Grats bro...another amazing tank. Plant choice and fish selection are just perfect. roud:
Is that red root floater? 

When you ready to let go of some moss and the tropica lemme know. Still growing some HC emersed in my 40B but I would love to get my hands on both of those!


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

speedie408 said:


> Egg tossing


Tank looks awesome! And would you have a pair of these for sale sometime?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

legomaniac89 said:


> How in the world did I miss this thread? Nice scape bro! 'Grats on the spawns!


 Muchos Gracias mi amigo roud:. About time you poked your head in here. :icon_mrgr



Flippy said:


> All i can say is OMG! :drool: This has got to be one of the most beautiful tanks I have ever seen! I believe I may even try to replicate it, it is so pretty (If that is okay with you of course!  )


 Thank you Flippy! I don't know about most beautiful but I like it too roud:. I didn't expect the moss to give the scape such a natural feel. You can copy whatever you like. I do the same when I see other tanks that inspire me. 



Nate McFin said:


> Grats bro...another amazing tank. Plant choice and fish selection are just perfect. roud:
> Is that red root floater?
> 
> When you ready to let go of some moss and the tropica lemme know. Still growing some HC emersed in my 40B but I would love to get my hands on both of those!


Thanks brotha! It's actually regular Frogbit, not red root. I'll have some moss soon and I'll try to remember you. The staurogyne may be another month till I trim it, but it's coming along nicely in this tank. I'll let you know.



funkyfish said:


> Tank looks awesome! And would you have a pair of these for sale sometime?


funky - I just sold 5 fish so I'm currently out of mature males atm. I've got more coming up real soon. Give me another month and I'll have a pair for you. Unless you want them young... They're about 1" long. LMK.


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## Voozle (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm envious of your success with the "low tech" route, this has become a really stunning display! The moss and the staurogyne foreground really tie it together nicely; you can bet I'll be taking a leaf out of your book as I work toward setting up my own 20L without CO2 or fertilization. Have you had any issues with algae so far?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Voozle said:


> I'm envious of your success with the "low tech" route, this has become a really stunning display! The moss and the staurogyne foreground really tie it together nicely; you can bet I'll be taking a leaf out of your book as I work toward setting up my own 20L without CO2 or fertilization. Have you had any issues with algae so far?


Thank you sir! You can take as many leaves as you like . As far as algae goes, I had a slight case of diatoms on the glass in the first month but it went away. I also had hair algae but I manually plucked as much as I could out and did a 3 day blackout about 3 weeks ago. It's 99% gone. I've always had BBA since the start, but it's only on the bare areas of my manzy branches. I think It adds to the natural feel of the tank and seems to be rather confined so I'm not trying to kill it . That's pretty much it.


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## jball1125 (Mar 9, 2010)

This tank is truely inspiring. You got anymore of those beautiful fish for sale?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

jball1125 said:


> This tank is truely inspiring. You got anymore of those beautiful fish for sale?


Thanks! PM coming your way.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Update:

I added 4 Viet white clouds along with 4 CPDs as dither fishes. It's working so far. The shy Albis are always out in the open now. I trimmed a decent amount of the Mini Xmas moss and gave it away. Anyway here are some new pics of the tank. Enjoy!




























Have I mentioned how slow C. parva grows? SoooOOOoo slooow









Thanks for looking.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

B-E-A-Utiful!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Those are looking beautiful! Can't wait to get my tank back to a species tank. I will definitely be watching teh Viet WC in your tank to see how they work over time.

Craig


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Nice tank!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> Those are looking beautiful! Can't wait to get my tank back to a species tank. I will definitely be watching teh Viet WC in your tank to see how they work over time.
> 
> Craig


Get some. The VWCMM actually shoal in this tank. For some reason they think they're CPDs 50% of the time. I need to get me a male though... I only got 4 females.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This project is awesome. You get an A++.


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

is that foreground plant all crypt parva???


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## SHMaRiM (Apr 21, 2010)

Question for reference: How much aquasoil did you end up buying? A 9L bag? or More?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Hey sorry I never got back to you about the bettas, I bought shrimp instead :hihi: I'm still in love with your tank. The moss is amazing. I love low tech


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

chris.rivera3 said:


> is that foreground plant all crypt parva???


 Chris - the foreground on the right is all C. parva. The stuff on the left is Staurogyne sp. tropica 049g aka 'repens'. 



20gnoob said:


> Question for reference: How much aquasoil did you end up buying? A 9L bag? or More?


I used one 9L bag, yup. Perfect amount for a 20L. :thumbsup:



chase127 said:


> Hey sorry I never got back to you about the bettas, I bought shrimp instead :hihi: I'm still in love with your tank. The moss is amazing. I love low tech


No worries brotha. Low tech FTW! :icon_cool Thanks!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Those VWCM still doing there job as a dither fish?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> Those VWCM still doing there job as a dither fish?


Of course. The Albis don't mind them at all. I'll try to snap a few pics tonight for you.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> Of course. The Albis don't mind them at all. I'll try to snap a few pics tonight for you.


Would love some more pictures when you get time!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> Would love some more pictures when you get time!


 :thumbsup:


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Here you go guys, as promised.

I found out one of my VWCM is actually a male. He's still a bit young but he's been chasing the plump female around. They should be spawning soon. 









Plump female









BBA has never looked so good. 









Overgrown Mini Xmas moss









Some emersed growth going on at the top









Here's proof that the VWCM do act as dither fish 


























Hope you guys/ladies enjoyed the pics.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Holy Albi's!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

I want your moss


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

chase127 said:


> I want your moss


NO! :icon_mrgr Looks to pretty to cut it off.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

All I need is a little snippet


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

haha I'm actually planning to trim it this weekend for our club meet. I'll save you a snippet if you really want some Chase. Send me a pm if so.


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## Lance Uppercut (Aug 22, 2009)

Speedie, I'm curious as to what parameters you're keeping the Albis in. I scanned through the thread and didn't see any mention.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Lance Uppercut said:


> Speedie, I'm curious as to what parameters you're keeping the Albis in. I scanned through the thread and didn't see any mention.


I hadn't posted since nobody asked. :icon_mrgr

pH: 6.5
I don't bother to test for GH and KH since I'm using 100% RO water, I add about 2tbs of GH booster for the plants once a month during WC. 
Temp is maintained around 75*

I think that's about it.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Acidic water, FTW! :hihi:


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Sick dude. I want your tank. How are those Crypts coming along in here?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

legomaniac89 said:


> Sick dude. I want your tank. How are those Crypts coming along in here?


:thumbsup: I just want everything that is in the tank! :icon_cool


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## Lance Uppercut (Aug 22, 2009)

chase127 said:


> Acidic water, FTW! :hihi:


I fear I might be to lazy for R/O. I'm spoiled using straight tap through the python when I fill up.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

chase127 said:


> Acidic water, FTW! :hihi:


Yup, Albimarginatas do best in pH between 6-7. 



legomaniac89 said:


> Sick dude. I want your tank. How are those Crypts coming along in here?


Which crytps are you refering to Adam? The wendtii morphs you gave me or the ones originally in this tank? They're both doing great but everything in this tank grows super slow except the crazy moss haha. I'll try to snap some closeup pics of the crypts when I get some time. 



Craigthor said:


> :thumbsup: I just want everything that is in the tank! :icon_cool


You've already got the best part... the fish :thumbsup:.



Lance Uppercut said:


> I fear I might be to lazy for R/O. I'm spoiled using straight tap through the python when I fill up.


I was the same way until I got my hands on some expensive soft water fish. After that, tap water was not an option anylonger. Craigthor talked me into getting a portable RO unit that works like a charm. I've been bottling my RO water into 5g jugs and doing 20g WC/week. It's not that bad. :icon_mrgr


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I got the fish but you got the VWCM and the C. Hudoroi! I did find a source for VWCM, once the Chocolates are gone next week I'm thinking a school of 12-18 in my Riparium would look cool. My source only has females right now but is getting some new stock in this weekend then I can get both. Should I get 1m for every 2-3 female you think? Was thinking 4-5 males and dozen females.

Craig


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> I got the fish but you got the VWCM and the C. Hudoroi! I did find a source for VWCM, once the Chocolates are gone next week I'm thinking a school of 12-18 in my Riparium would look cool. My source only has females right now but is getting some new stock in this weekend then I can get both. Should I get 1m for every 2-3 female you think? Was thinking 4-5 males and dozen females.
> 
> Craig


haha For some reason my Hudoroi mother plant is not doing as well with the change to RO water in my other tank. It's not spittin out daughter plants as fast as it use to when I was using tap. It's a hard water crypt I believe . 

For the VWCM, I'd reccomend 1male to every 3 females would work best if you want these guys to spawn like crazy. I think I said it before but too many males and you won't get much spawning except sparing. Their sex can be a bit hard to differentiate to the untrained eye. The females usually have slightly shorter fins with a plump belly when compared with the males. Hope you get them soon bro.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> haha For some reason my Hudoroi mother plant is not doing as well with the change to RO water in my other tank. It's not spittin out daughter plants as fast as it use to when I was using tap. It's a hard water crypt I believe .
> 
> For the VWCM, I'd reccomend 1male to every 3 females would work best if you want these guys to spawn like crazy. I think I said it before but too many males and you won't get much spawning except sparing. Their sex can be a bit hard to differentiate to the untrained eye. The females usually have slightly shorter fins with a plump belly when compared with the males. Hope you get them soon bro.


 
Thanks for hte info, I could do either 9 females and 3 males or 12 females and 4 males, either way it should be a really great group. How big are yours? I know I read they stay around an inch for the males and just slightly bigger for the females.

Can't wait to get the Chocolates moved out, it is too distracting having to bigger sp as they take away from each other, I'm hoping that having the VWCM as dithers they won't take away from teh Albis.

Craig


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> Thanks for hte info, I could do either 9 females and 3 males or 12 females and 4 males, either way it should be a really great group. How big are yours? I know I read they stay around an inch for the males and just slightly bigger for the females.
> 
> Can't wait to get the Chocolates moved out, it is too distracting having to bigger sp as they take away from each other, I'm hoping that having the VWCM as dithers they won't take away from teh Albis.
> 
> Craig


I'd say for your tank size, 12 females and even 5 males would be fine. Mine are still growing so they're not full size yet but you're correct about their size differences.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Your tank looks great! I really love the albis. The moss looks really great as well, where did you originally get the mini x-mass moss was it locally? Next trim would you try to keep me in mind? I'd love to trade some moss or buy some from you.

-Andrew


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

A Hill said:


> Your tank looks great! I really love the albis. The moss looks really great as well, where did you originally get the mini x-mass moss was it locally? Next trim would you try to keep me in mind? I'd love to trade some moss or buy some from you.
> 
> -Andrew


Thanks Andrew. I just did a huge trim and gave it all away to my local SFBAAPS members. I won't have any till another month maybe but I'll try to remember. I got it from within our club.


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

any updated pictures after the HUGE moss trim???


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

chris.rivera3 said:


> any updated pictures after the HUGE moss trim???


It's already back to being bushy. I'll try to snap some update pics soon.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Update - Here's how the Parva looks so far: They've flattened and hug the substrate now. 









And a couple FTS's after another massive moss trim. Have I mentioned how fast this moss grows?


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## plantedpufferfreak (Feb 2, 2010)

because of this tank i am so obsessed with wild bettas and really want a pair of these! Such a nice tank!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

plantedpufferfreak said:


> because of this tank i am so obsessed with wild bettas and really want a pair of these! Such a nice tank!


Thanks:icon_excl These fish are cool indeed. Unfortunately, it's the type of fish where if you only had 2-3, it's not enough. You'll need moar!!! :wink:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> Thanks:icon_excl These fish are cool indeed. Unfortunately, it's the type of fish where if you only had 2-3, it's not enough. You'll need moar!!! :wink:


maybe 2-3 pair!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> maybe 2-3 pair!


There ya go Craig haha. You get any baby Albi's yet? Believe it or not, the Albi x Channoide hybrid babies are surviving. I just tossed them in my shrimp tank and let them survive in there.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> There ya go Craig haha. You get any baby Albi's yet? Believe it or not, the Albi x Channoide hybrid babies are surviving. I just tossed them in my shrimp tank and let them survive in there.


Not trying. Actually selling off all my Albi's and moving my tank in another direction stock wise, looking for some nice F1 stock for fairly cheap? 3 pairs for $120 shipped priority!

Craig


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> Not trying. Actually selling off all my Albi's and moving my tank in another direction stock wise, looking for some nice F1 stock for fairly cheap? 3 pairs for $120 shipped priority!
> 
> Craig


Dayem! really? What was wrong with your current stock? Spending that much money, might as well got Betta Macs :hihi:.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> Dayem! really? What was wrong with your current stock? Spending that much money, might as well got Betta Macs :hihi:.


Going to a more community based tank that the little one ad wife enjoy more then the bettas.

Craig


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This tank is awesome Nick. It's really perfect. You are really good with plants. I like that foreground shot with the C. parva.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> This tank is awesome Nick. It's really perfect. You are really good with plants. I like that foreground shot with the C. parva.


Thanks Devin. If you call topping off with tap water, "good with plants" so be it. :icon_twis


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

That last picture is awesome, loving the moss man. You plan on trimming it or letting it grow out?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

!shadow! said:


> That last picture is awesome, loving the moss man. You plan on trimming it or letting it grow out?


Shadow,

I just did a major moss trim right before I took those last set of pics. I've got a nice grapefruit sized moss ball haha. It was hogging all the light and had to be trimmed.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

l know that feeling all too well. l had about 3 sprigs of naja grass and well let's say co2 + fertz made it explode into a gallon sized clump by the time l took it out. when it was all said and done it was about 95% that got removed out of the tank because it was just draining all the nutrients from the other plants and out competing them.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Picture updates:

This is the very nice and very rare Crypt bulosa. It's a super slow grower but it's not dying so I'm very happy. Love the bullation of the leaves with this plant.









Caught a pair of Albies about to get their groove on haha. They do this constantly now that they're all mature. I just don't have time to segregate my holding males and care for the babies.









FTS









Thanks for looking.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

You make algae look good 
Love it. Awesome fish, too.


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## justinq (Dec 6, 2006)

This is a fantastic tank. The layout makes it look huge in the pictures - if it didn't have the clamp lights for a size comparison, you could have told me it was a 75. Fascinating livestock, too.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

CL said:


> You make algae look good
> Love it. Awesome fish, too.


Who doesn't like nicely coated BBA manzy branches? :hihi: Waiting to score on a second regulator. In the mean time, all the BBA looks rather natural so I don't mind. 



justinq said:


> This is a fantastic tank. The layout makes it look huge in the pictures - if it didn't have the clamp lights for a size comparison, you could have told me it was a 75. Fascinating livestock, too.


Thank you.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

If you're bored, check out these 2 vids I just uploaded today:

2 males sparring 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqBwCt4qdTk

The gathering - This is how tame this batch of fish are. They're known for being super shy and afraid of direct light. Not so much here 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri9w1dsOS_0

**edit** fixed broken vid


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## dxiong5 (Sep 28, 2008)

The first video isn't working for me, but the second one is awesome. What are you feeding your Albis? I just got a pair from Craig, but they are super shy and don't come out at all. I throw in some blackworms that sink and start digging into the substrate; not sure if the Albis are eating at all. Are you selling any mature pairs? I may be interested in another.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Don,

Vid has been fixed. Should be working now.

Craig was trying to do what I did before he sold them... trying to get them to not be so shy. At first I thought my Albis were not shy because of the dither fish but I now know it's because I hand raised these guys and fed them every day with chopped up blackworms. They just got use to me I guess . I am selling a few pairs so PM me when you wanna buy. Glad you liked the vid.


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## dxiong5 (Sep 28, 2008)

Awesome, thanks for fixing the link. I was getting some copyright violation or something. The white really stands outs, what a great looking fish.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

dxiong5 said:


> Awesome, thanks for fixing the link. I was getting some copyright violation or something. The white really stands outs, what a great looking fish.


Thanks hombre. I forgot to relabel the music file I was using before I embedded it onto the video file. Oh well. 

I don't really pay attention to these guys as much as I should but every once in a while, I like to sit in front of the tank and gaze into the tank. :icon_mrgr


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

How long did it take the Parva to carpet like that?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> How long did it take the Parva to carpet like that?


Planted them when the tank initially went up so that was about 4 months ago. It's super slow growing man. I like it that way roud:.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Sweet tank!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

jmhart said:


> Sweet tank!


Thanks Jeffrey.


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## Chaos_Being (May 18, 2010)

Wow, those are really unique looking fish. I love the scape as well!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

*"Albimarginataville" - 20L Lowtech **New VIDS uploaded 7/12***

Been a little over a month since my last update. Not much to update but here goes. 

I tossed all the Xmas moss. It's pretty bare without the moss hanging off the branches now, but I like it better for some reason. I also took the moss out so the foreground plants can fill in now that the light hogging moss is outta the way. 

This is how it sits now:


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

awesome tank!!!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

ddtran46 said:


> awesome tank!!!


Thanks!


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Tank looks better without the fuzz balls on the branches; feels more open. I can't believe this is a lowtech set up. On top of that, I can't believe it's a 20L.

Just wondering, what (or which tank) inspired you to make it like this?


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

That last shot makes the tank look like it's about 10 feet long. Now clean your pipes or I'm going to start calling you CL

:hihi:


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

As usual speedie has the awesome tank setup and awesome picture-taking.



speedie408 said:


>


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## Tigerfish (Jun 24, 2010)

Your tank is awesome! I've been wanting to get a 20L for awhile now and find your tank very inspiring.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Speedie how are you man?

these fish are so cool looking your making me want them. how are the dragon bettas?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

PinoyBoy said:


> Tank looks better without the fuzz balls on the branches; feels more open. I can't believe this is a lowtech set up. On top of that, I can't believe it's a 20L.
> 
> Just wondering, what (or which tank) inspired you to make it like this?


Yup, my thoughts exactly as I was pulling the moss out. I like the openness as well but my Bettas miss the overgrown moss balls ALOT. They are a bit more shy without the moss. As far as inspiration, I started this tank after I saw legomaniac89's old 20L tank. The one where he was growing a full lawn of Belem HG and Rotala green narrow in one corner. It had the same open feeling that this tank has. 



legomaniac89 said:


> That last shot makes the tank look like it's about 10 feet long. Now clean your pipes or I'm going to start calling you CL
> 
> :hihi:


Speak of the devil! :hihi: I love my nasty pipes. It gives the tank some character :wink:



hydrophyte said:


> As usual speedie has the awesome tank setup and awesome picture-taking.


Thanks Devin! 



Tigerfish said:


> Your tank is awesome! I've been wanting to get a 20L for awhile now and find your tank very inspiring.


Glad to help inspire you man. I've had many inspirations myself from other members. Thank you very much. 



problemman said:


> Speedie how are you man?
> 
> these fish are so cool looking your making me want them. how are the dragon bettas?


I'm doing good problemman. Thanks for asking. The dragon bettas are still around. I have one male and 2 females left. I sold the rest. I've got another batch of 100 fry that are about 2 months old now.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Oh that's good have these bettas bred for u?
i would love to get some of the dragon bettas this time and some off the downi to try in the soil tank. U should see it now what a difference! Pm me so we can talk some more bout the bettas


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Past and Present pics. Can Crypt Parva grow any slower? Doesn't it still looks the same just that it's now hugging the ground? lol I need this stuff to carpet dammit! 

Before









2/2010 - freshly planted









9/2010 - seven months later...


















Hopefully in another 7 months I an get that full parva carpet.  

BTW I'm getting rid of all the Betta Albimarginatas. Replacing them with a shoal of CPD's.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: "Albimarginataville" - 20L Lowtech **Before & After 9/17***

Y? And how much?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

problemman said:


> Y? And how much?
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


These fish belong to the wifey. She's just bored of them I guess. Only spreading them locally. If you're genuinely interested, PM me.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> Past and Present pics. Can Crypt Parva grow any slower? Doesn't it still looks the same just that it's now hugging the ground? lol I need this stuff to carpet dammit!


The only tank I have seen where someone had a legit carpet, they used like 60 pots and carpeted it from the beginning. It may take a LONG time if you don't add more. Looks really good though as is.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

talontsiawd said:


> The only tank I have seen where someone had a legit carpet, they used like 60 pots and carpeted it from the beginning. It may take a LONG time if you don't add more. Looks really good though as is.


Thanks for the promising news talon! Now I can shoot myself. I'll see if I can get more then.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: "Albimarginataville" - 20L Lowtech **Before & After 9/17***

Oh now dont go doing that I need u around speed so u can give me answers to all my questions ur my buddy on here I look to u for everything!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Problem you're a funny guy!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: "Albimarginataville" - 20L Lowtech **Before & After 9/17***

Well its a true statment. U should know this im always messaging u lol

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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

problemman said:


> Well its a true statment. U should know this im always messaging u lol
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


Stop stalking me dude! :help: 

kidding... glad to help man! :icon_wink


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: "Albimarginataville" - 20L Lowtech **Before & After 9/17***

I wouldnt call it that I wouldnt call it 21 questions

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## plantedpufferfreak (Feb 2, 2010)

omg please dont sell all the albis! this tank and your group are the reason i bought my first pair last week and set up a 20 gallon long for them! I wish i could afford to buy another pair from you  your tank has inspired me So much along with gotten me obsessed with wild bettas


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: "Albimarginataville" - 20L Lowtech **Before & After 9/17***

He seems to have an effect on people. His 40 breeder madw me go buy one lol

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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

So... does this mean you're going to change the name of the thread/tank?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

plantedpufferfreak said:


> omg please dont sell all the albis! this tank and your group are the reason i bought my first pair last week and set up a 20 gallon long for them! I wish i could afford to buy another pair from you  your tank has inspired me So much along with gotten me obsessed with wild bettas


I'm keeping 2 pairs just for keepsake. :wink: I'm glad I was able to steer you into keeping these wonderful fish. They were fun to keep but I have to move them to make room for my Betta Macrostoma breeding program. :hihi: I like the Macs more. 



problemman said:


> He seems to have an effect on people. His 40 breeder madw me go buy one lol


Does this mean your next tank is going to be an ADA 120-p ? :hihi: :icon_twis



PinoyBoy said:


> So... does this mean you're going to change the name of the thread/tank?


In due time. Not sure what I'll call it yet though.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Wow Nick! Another classic.


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

Great job as usual! The before and afters really say it all.
I am going to have to fly you out here to photograph my tank. 
I have all the lenses, tripod,etc to get it done I just can't seem to snap the right one.
-Nate


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

malaybiswas said:


> Wow Nick! Another classic.


Thanks Malay! No updates on your new tank bro?



Nate McFin said:


> Great job as usual! The before and afters really say it all.
> I am going to have to fly you out here to photograph my tank.
> I have all the lenses, tripod,etc to get it done I just can't seem to snap the right one.
> -Nate


Are you shooting with Nikon or Canon? I don't really use tripod when I shoot. I should though. If you have a faster lens, say f/2.8 or faster, use it. Set your ISO setting to the highest setting possible that yields the least noticeable noise. Mine can go up to ISO 1200 but beyond that the noise becomes unbearable. Light up your tank and go to town. :thumbsup: Try shooting in manual mode and play with the exposure from there. This is for flashless photography.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> Thanks Malay! No updates on your new tank bro?


Not yet :frown:. I am all set with some final finishing touches on the stand, all kinds of plants and rocks etc, but did not receive the tank yet. They said, it'll be shipped today so I'm following up.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> Are you shooting with Nikon or Canon? I don't really use tripod when I shoot. I should though. If you have a faster lens, say f/2.8 or faster, use it. Set your ISO setting to the highest setting possible that yields the least noticeable noise. Mine can go up to ISO 1200 but beyond that the noise becomes unbearable. Light up your tank and go to town. :thumbsup: Try shooting in manual mode and play with the exposure from there. This is for flashless photography.


Get a cheapo tripod from Frys. Makes a hell lot of difference. You can position the cam, focus and zoom, set the timer and then do a last min tap on the tank to get a good schooling of the fish. 

You nailed it pretty much on the controls, however for anyone without a tripod, if controlling exposure is a hassle while holding in hand, try using the hi-speed photography mode if it is built in. It will balance the exposure and shutter speed automatically using the light in the tank or room without using the flash.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

malaybiswas said:


> Get a cheapo tripod from Frys. Makes a hell lot of difference. You can position the cam, focus and zoom, set the timer and then do a last min tap on the tank to get a good schooling of the fish.
> 
> You nailed it pretty much on the controls, however for anyone without a tripod, if controlling exposure is a hassle while holding in hand, try using the hi-speed photography mode if it is built in. It will balance the exposure and shutter speed automatically using the light in the tank or room without using the flash.


I have a tripod. Just never really needed it for tank photography (yet). 

What camera do you have? I noticed my buddy's 7D had that feature you're talking about. It was awesome. My old 40D don't have it. Boooooo! I need an upgrade. Freaking technology these days!


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

speedie408 said:


> Are you shooting with Nikon or Canon? I don't really use tripod when I shoot. I should though. If you have a faster lens, say f/2.8 or faster, use it. Set your ISO setting to the highest setting possible that yields the least noticeable noise. Mine can go up to ISO 1200 but beyond that the noise becomes unbearable. Light up your tank and go to town. :thumbsup: Try shooting in manual mode and play with the exposure from there. This is for flashless photography.


 Thanks for the tips! I shoot Canon (400D) My fastest lens I have is a fixed-
50mm F1.8. Unfortunately the noise levels on high ISO shots are horrible on the 400D. The highest I like to go is 800. 
I will give it another shot and see what happens. 
Do you use the hair dryer trick for getting the nice surface movement?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Nate McFin said:


> Thanks for the tips! I shoot Canon (400D) My fastest lens I have is a fixed-
> 50mm F1.8. Unfortunately the noise levels on high ISO shots are horrible on the 400D. The highest I like to go is 800.
> I will give it another shot and see what happens.
> Do you use the hair dryer trick for getting the nice surface movement?


hahahaha hair dryer huh? One of these days I have to go all out and take all my filter pipes and equipment out before a shoot and bust out my tripod and the wifey's "hair dryer" for some ripple action. But to answer your question, no I haven't yet. 

That Rebel XTi is a decent little camera. Wanna upgrade to a 40D? *hint hint*  I've got the nifty fifty lens as well and it works great but wide open, it's not so sharp for me so I stopped using it. Whenever I do use it, it's always set at f/4 or higher. Maybe it's my copy, just never bothered to have it checked out.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

It's been a couple months since I last updated this journal. Reason was, this tank has been through a recent tough patch and is finally beginning to bounce back. For a while I used this tank as my hospital tank and dosed every fish med you can name of into it. The plants did suffer but I think it was rather minimal. I've done a few water changes since the meds were eliminated and it's looking a little better. 

As you can see BBA also came back but it's not a big deal since it only grows on the manzy branches. Nothing a little excel can't cure. 

The Parva carpet is spreading slowly but surely. I can't say the same about the staurogyne though haha. It probably took the worst beating from all the plants. Don't mind the rotting leaves in the back corner there. 




























Platinum HM betta 









Here's a pic of a rather unique cross: Albimarginata x Channoide


















This is one of the few male Albi I have left. He's different from the other males in coloration. He looks white for some reason.









I couldn't get a good shot but I have some regular WCMM in here mixed with a few female Viet WCMM and believe it or not, they were cross breeding today. I didn't think the two different species would actually mate with one another. We'll just have to wait n see if the eggs are fertile. The babies wouldn't survive in this tank anyway. Oh well, just thought that was cool enough to note. 

Here's a quick n dirty iPhone vid. You can kinda see the White cloud males chasing the females.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOo_37Yqkjg


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

Wow. Absolutely Amazing. The HM White Bettas looks so nice in that lust green tank! Wish I could give my betta a environment like that!


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## plantedpufferfreak (Feb 2, 2010)

Beautiful male albi! and i would be interested in the cross and that male


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Jaggedfury said:


> Wow. Absolutely Amazing. The HM White Bettas looks so nice in that lust green tank! Wish I could give my betta a environment like that!


Thanks man! I'm hoping at least one of these 3 Platinum HM is a male. They're still juvies. 



plantedpufferfreak said:


> Beautiful male albi! and i would be interested in the cross and that male


Sorry PPF... I know you are very into bettas because of me, but I don't have many left so these are keepers :icon_twis. If I happen to get some accidental sucessful spawnings later, I'll be sure to hook you up. :angel: promise


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## globali (May 29, 2010)

Pro Visuals that make the
browsing very enjoyable.

Very very very Lovely
& green design scene.

If the results are without
CO2 that project inspire
me and I will subscribe
in order to read all the
words along the thread.


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## plantedpufferfreak (Feb 2, 2010)

well if you ever do have a spawn from him or you do decide to sell him i call first dibs


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

globali said:


> Pro Visuals that make the
> browsing very enjoyable.
> 
> Very very very Lovely:angel::angel::angel::angel:
> ...


No CO2 for this tank. Thank you for the kind words and enjoy the journal. 



plantedpufferfreak said:


> well if you ever do have a spawn from him or you do decide to sell him i call first dibs


roud: I'll let you know.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

I'll take some of the hybrids and some of the platinum beta spawn too lol and now I got to subscribe and read this journal


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Brad,

It's gonna be a while man. The platinums are cool. I've always wanted them. Hopefully there's at least a pair out of them.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

I hope too lol.


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## sam22sam (Nov 9, 2010)

Hey speedie,

Had a question - The wood that is in the tank, is that wood or roots? Looks fantastic by the way algae or no algae.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

sam22sam said:


> Hey speedie,
> 
> Had a question - The wood that is in the tank, is that wood or roots? Looks fantastic by the way algae or no algae.


Thanks Sam. The wood is manzanita wood. There are a few different varieties here in the States so I'm not sure exactly which one this is. There are a bunch of wood floating around in the S&S section atm. You may wanna look there if you're looking. :thumbsup:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Update?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

problemman said:


> Update?


Something went terribly wrong in this tank that probably originated from my main tank. All my Albis that I had just up and died overnight along with many other fish including a few CPD's and white clouds. I don't know exactly what it was that murdered my fish but since then, I've been doing some major water changes and the deaths have stopped. The scape hasn't really changed much so there's not much to update for pictures. 

It hasn't been good with me lately. :icon_frow


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## plantedpufferfreak (Feb 2, 2010)

All of the albis? even the beautiful male???? the Cross too?


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Damn speedie that sucks! I hour you figure it out and can get some new fish soon to compliment this beautiful tank. I would do a few more water changes just to rid it even more and clean all media. This is so sad I'm really feeling for you considering how much you love those fish and the rest of us here. Please keep us informed on what you find bud.

Best of luck and best wishes


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

plantedpufferfreak said:


> All of the albis? even the beautiful male???? the Cross too?


Fortunately the cross is still alive. I have a lone male channoide that also survived the onslaught left along with the cross male. Did you want to try to breed it still... pm me if so. 



problemman said:


> Damn speedie that sucks! I hour you figure it out and can get some new fish soon to compliment this beautiful tank. I would do a few more water changes just to rid it even more and clean all media. This is so sad I'm really feeling for you considering how much you love those fish and the rest of us here. Please keep us informed on what you find bud.
> 
> Best of luck and best wishes


I think I'm done with expensive fish for now. I'm just going to stick with easy fish till boredome sets in again. Thanks for the encouragement though.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

aw speedie maybe some one will be nice to you and can get you some new fish for cheap. i hope the crosses will be amusing for you for a while and maybe sell them off so you can buy the new ones. did the platinums live?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Only one survived. I'm done though. I'm pretty sure the betta bug will bite me again soon, but for now I'm throwing up the white flag.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

damn dude!


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## plantedpufferfreak (Feb 2, 2010)

Im so sorry


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

Wow dude what a drag  Sorry...


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

talontsiawd said:


> I really need to go to a sfbaaps event and meet some of you guys.


Me too! Though I'm trying to restrain myself and not turn into the crazy betta lady on the block . . . 

That tank is great, and it's so cool to see wild betta. Someday I'd love to do a LARGE community tank with one of the wild species that can be kept that way.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Oh, man. Just got to the end of the thread. This totally sucks. I'm so sorry.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Ouch. sorry for the loss.. Was it columnaris?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

It's ok guys. I'm over it already. It's already been 2 weeks since the last death. 

On a much lighter note, I did find another surviving male who is actually holding "some" wigglers. He barely came out of hiding this morning. I took him out today in hopes of salvaging any fry he decides to spit out. At least I know this male holds his eggs to term. It's been rare occurrence in this group of siblings I've been keeping. 

Glen - I'm not positive what it was that killed my fish. It may be columnaris, but most of these Albis were healthy one minute and dead overnight. I lost like 5 Albis over 2 nights. Does that sound like columnaris?


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Yay we have a chance for free new stock! Thank god for fish that breed


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your loss. But it's great that you found some survivors


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Glad you found some survivors! 

If I'm every crazy enough to take on the species tank, I'm so going to track you down for advice . . .


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

so how goes it with the bettas? anything come of the fry?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Betta Maniac said:


> Glad you found some survivors!
> 
> If I'm every crazy enough to take on the species tank, I'm so going to track you down for advice . . .


I'll be here  



kwheeler91 said:


> so how goes it with the bettas? anything come of the fry?


I've got 5 survivors. Healthy and strong! roud:

As far as an update for this tank, I'm sorry to announce that this tank is officially getting torn down. It's been heavily neglected after my fish all died and now it's over run by BBA and all the plants are just not looking so hot. I think I'm going to turn it into a farming tank. Not sure what plants I'll be farming yet.


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## teah (Jul 25, 2010)

I am sorry for the deaths, but the scape is still there right? It will be easier to build back from this =)
Beautiful scape! I LOVE IT! I have a 32x16x20 inch tank and wonder how many males, how many female bettas I can hold in mine. Could you please give me some advice?


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Nick do another high tech please! I would be in my glory!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

problemman said:


> Nick do another high tech please! I would be in my glory!


haha I'm thinking it'll most likely be high tech but there won't be a scape. It'll be a plant farm more than anything.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> As far as an update for this tank, I'm sorry to announce that this tank is officially getting torn down. It's been heavily neglected after my fish all died and now it's over run by BBA and all the plants are just not looking so hot. I think I'm going to turn it into a farming tank. Not sure what plants I'll be farming yet.


Collectoritis get the best of ya? :flick:


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

legomaniac89 said:


> Collectoritis get the best of ya? :flick:


Naww man. I just got side tracked and kinda lost interest in this tank. Time for a fresh start.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

speedie408 said:


> haha I'm thinking it'll most likely be high tech but there won't be a scape. It'll be a plant farm more than anything.


Hell to the yah! So pumped


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

It's been a long time since I've updated this tank... for good reasons. It was in ruins for a long time. Now after 1 month of injecting CO2 and dosing ferts, it's come back to life. The parva foreground is what I'm especially proud of. I love this plant! It just seemed to have taken off for me over the past 3 weeks. I'd say it's one of the best looking foreground plants I've grown. Take a look for yourselves in this video from my iPhone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JHSLu-c3m0


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

So the co2 obviously is the key to the take off


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

problemman said:


> So the co2 obviously is the key to the take off


And EI dosing.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> The parva foreground is what I'm especially proud of. I love this plant! It just seemed to have taken off for me over the past 3 weeks. I'd say it's one of the best looking foreground plants I've grown. Take a look for yourselves in this video from my iPhone:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JHSLu-c3m0


I am really glad that is working out. I know many people struggle with this plant, merely just out of frustration from slow growth. It's a plant I have wanted to try but I don't know where to find it. I have a new tank I just setup and I am debating about spending the cash on co2. If I do, then I will likely try this plant.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

talontsiawd said:


> I am really glad that is working out. I know many people struggle with this plant, merely just out of frustration from slow growth. It's a plant I have wanted to try but I don't know where to find it. I have a new tank I just setup and I am debating about spending the cash on co2. If I do, then I will likely try this plant.


Really? I see most lfs carrying them now. I'd call around if I were you. 

This plant is indeed slow growing, but that was because I wasn't dosing CO2 n ferts. Now that I am, it's doubled in mass and still growing at an unprecedented speed. It's actually not as slow a grower as I originally thought it to be.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> Really? I see most lfs carrying them now. I'd call around if I were you.


Do you have any suggestions off the top of your head? We are somewhat local to each other. I am in the Walnut Creek/Concord area and only 2 stores have a limited selection of plants. I go to Albany Aquarium when I have time but it's a pretty long drive. I was out there recently and though I wasn't looking for it in particular, I didn't see it looking through what they had.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

talontsiawd said:


> Do you have any suggestions off the top of your head? We are somewhat local to each other. I am in the Walnut Creek/Concord area and only 2 stores have a limited selection of plants. I go to Albany Aquarium when I have time but it's a pretty long drive. I was out there recently and though I wasn't looking for it in particular, I didn't see it looking through what they had.


Call these places:

Neptune aquatics - SJ
Dolphin pet village - SJ
Aquatic central - SF
AFA 

There are a few ppl on here that grow this plant well. Try posting a WTB in the SnS too. FYI Sfbaaps is having our next Open House in Walnut Creek this month. Not sure if you're a member but just thought I'd let you know. PM me if you want to attend.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> Call these places:
> 
> Neptune aquatics - SJ
> Dolphin pet village - SJ
> ...


Thanks, I will check those places out. My girlfriend used to live in SF so AFA was "local" at the time, definitely miss it, I will have to go back soon.

I am technically a Sfbaaps member but I have yet to really participate. I work, go to school, and am on the track to become a professional musician. I also have a girlfriend. It's hard to balance all that but I know it's an awesome organization and can't wait to get involved, when I have the time.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

speedie408 said:


> The parva foreground is what I'm especially proud of. *I love this plant!* It just seemed to have taken off for me over the past 3 weeks. I'd say it's one of the best looking foreground plants I've grown. Take a look for yourselves in this video from my iPhone:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JHSLu-c3m0


Now I do too! (again lol) :thumbsup: Typically awesome bro... your tanks are always memorable, even if only a farm. 
Sad to see the scape go, but excited to see what you come up with next:icon_cool


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

talontsiawd said:


> Thanks, I will check those places out. My girlfriend used to live in SF so AFA was "local" at the time, definitely miss it, I will have to go back soon.
> 
> I am technically a Sfbaaps member but I have yet to really participate. I work, go to school, and am on the track to become a professional musician. I also have a girlfriend. It's hard to balance all that but I know it's an awesome organization and can't wait to get involved, when I have the time.


roud:



dirtyhermit said:


> Now I do too! (again lol) :thumbsup: Typically awesome bro... your tanks are always memorable, even if only a farm.
> Sad to see the scape go, but excited to see what you come up with next:icon_cool


Thanks bro! This is my RCS/plant farm now so all you'll see in the future is harvesting :bounce: :biggrin:


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Ok Nick. I know you posted a video and its stunning, but lets see the FTS! Quit holding out.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

I'm loving the C. parva carpet. Very nicely done. The rest of the tank looks great too!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Gatekeeper said:


> Ok Nick. I know you posted a video and its stunning, but lets see the FTS! Quit holding out.


Man... I ended up turning this tank into an emersed farm now. Sorry bro... no fts. I did however transfer all the downoi over to a 40breeder to farm them out even further  . I've managed to keep the parva in tact and left it growing emersed, here in this tank. We'll see how well it does in this form. 



tuffgong said:


> I'm loving the C. parva carpet. Very nicely done. The rest of the tank looks great too!


Thanks man! :thumbsup:


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Oh no! you spent all that time growing it out only to convert it back to emersed!?! Oh man. I wish I had known, totally would have talked you out of that. 

FWIW, that is the furthest grown carpet I have ever seen of it. 

Well, good luck with the emersed. Any shots of that action? Did you ever see my old emersed setups? They were madness and I had crazy insane growth. I think I am going to bring it back online again. I have some cool ideas to integrate further into it.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Gatekeeper said:


> Oh no! you spent all that time growing it out only to convert it back to emersed!?! Oh man. I wish I had known, totally would have talked you out of that.
> 
> FWIW, that is the furthest grown carpet I have ever seen of it.
> 
> Well, good luck with the emersed. Any shots of that action? Did you ever see my old emersed setups? They were madness and I had crazy insane growth. I think I am going to bring it back online again. I have some cool ideas to integrate further into it.


I know man, waste of my time haha j/k. Thanks tho. 

I've never seen your emersed setups. Post up a link dude. I'd love to take a look. 

I'll post a couple new pics once I get some free time... maybe tonight


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## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

Hey speedie, whats a downoi farm?
Is this plant hard to grow or purchase?
mD


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

mD,

It's basically me farming this plant: downoi or Pogostemon helferi

I'd say this plant is hard to grow for some folks. It tends to do a lot better in hard water conditions and needs good lighting + CO2. It's not exactly a rare plant but whenever it does surface, it gets snatched up within a day or two. So yeah, I'd say it's def a more desirable plant by many. Of course this is my opinion only.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

speedie408 said:


> mD,
> 
> It's basically me farming this plant: downoi or Pogostemon helferi
> 
> I'd say this plant is hard to grow for some folks. It tends to do a lot better in hard water conditions and needs good lighting + CO2. It's not exactly a rare plant but whenever it does surface, it gets snatched up within a day or two. So yeah, I'd say it's def a more desirable plant by many. Of course this is my opinion only.


I second your opinion nick.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Gas money! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSDXOqSeyI0


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Sure is gas money lol what are in the corners?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

problemman said:


> Sure is gas money lol what are in the corners?


Some bocopa japan up front right and just Philippine java fern propogation leaves floating at the other corners. :icon_mrgr


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Very nice very nice

Could never get bacopa japan to do well for some reason. It always melts on me


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## Gookis (Dec 28, 2010)

I love how quiet and peaceful some of the 'low-tech' tanks look! I love the contrast in the well lit spots and the dark shaded areas. Great work! And I dig those fish. 

Matt


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