# Hair Algae!! can't seem to stop it.



## aquarist (Aug 29, 2012)

Whats your tank temperature at? Hair algae usually forms because of a few things or a combination:

1: Too much light

2: Water is too cold

3: Biological filter has shut down or does not exist

4: Too much fertilizer - usually causes worse things than hair algae but could be a factor

A lot of your other plants are turning yellow, so it looks like you also may need some more nitrogen.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

aquarist said:


> Whats your tank temperature at? Hair algae usually forms because of a few things or a combination:
> 
> 1: Too much light
> 
> ...


Hi thanks,
1: Highly possible - I don't have par values for this light and its bright.
2: never thought about it. Its in my office and temps goes from 69-73F
3: ammonia and nitrites are 0, so I assume its working.
4: this could be a factor, but based on tests, I'm within target ranges for EI dosing.

The yellowing of plants is due to the HC being mowed down. I waited too 3 weeks in between trims and this is the bottom layer. It should start growing in again in another week.

I just cleaned the glass, and damn, the hair algae is growing in the HC now. This is so fustrating, it was super nice and lush, now BAM!! OMGWTFBATMAN!!


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## aquarist (Aug 29, 2012)

If you can, raise the light or reduce the photoperiod and put a heater in there and get the water to 80 degrees. I've read you can add salt too to kill hair algae but I am unsure of the amounts.

Are you sure the bio filter is working? Zero ammonia and nitrites may just mean the cycle hasn't started yet.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

My light is on a controller, I can dim it more.

I really wanted to stay away from putting in a heater. I wan't to get some rcs later and want to stay in the 70's.

This is the first time I'm hearing about a correlation between low temps and hair algae. I couldn't find very much on the matter, do you have some links? I would think that the temperature more likely affects oxygen and CO2 concentrations.

I think I'll play around with the light output. This latest bloom though, I can almost certainly say it grew faster because I trimmed a lot. Essentially cutting my plant mass by about 80%.

Even with the HC growing well though, the hair algae was limited to the glass.


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

76 degrees
amano shrimp
rcs shrimp
c02 3 bps
NO SALT!!!
problem should solve itself


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

Aquadawg said:


> 76 degrees
> amano shrimp
> rcs shrimp
> c02 3 bps
> ...


heh! wish it was that easy. I have to order my Amano's and RCS. I want to get to the source first, though I bet my tank is Amano shrimp heaven right now.. :smile:


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

Lack of co2 is your source. shrimp are for maintenance.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

Aquadawg said:


> Lack of co2 is your source. shrimp are for maintenance.


I'm not so sure this is the case. Based on drop checker AND in tank water tests, I'm right at around 30ppm if not more. HC pearls like crazy. I suppose I can crank it up to the point of fish gasping, and go back down. I think the only saving grace I have is a high concentration of O2 as my water temps are low. If it was 80 degree's, for sure the fish going to be gasping. Or so I believe.

My 1.5bps goes through a rexgriggs reactor, and it's pretty damn efficient. I got near 100% dissolution.


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

quark said:


> I'm not so sure this is the case.


Ok, >90% of the time hair algae is associated with low CO2. There are hundreds of references that support this. My tank gets 8bps and the temp is 78. No problems with algae or fish dying. How is your flow? Is the co2 getting everywhere? Try moving your checker around. I read that you said it's in an office so it's probably getting a ton of indirect light plus what you are giving it. That may be why the algae stared on your glass first. How much direct light do you give it per day. Is everything on timers? We'll figure it out.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

As you mentioned, when you trimmed down the HC you removed a considerable amount of plant mass that was sucking up nutrients in the water column. In addition what was left looks like it had to recover before really doing much, so running same light cycle, same everything wasn't going to work anymore. 

I would run a shorter duration
Increase water changes
Use carbon for a while until the plant mass returns.

Good co2 is important, but all the co2 in the world is not going to help if there isn't enough plant mass.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

Aquadawg said:


> Ok, >90% of the time hair algae is associated with low CO2. There are hundreds of references that support this. My tank gets 8bps and the temp is 78. No problems with algae or fish dying. How is your flow? Is the co2 getting everywhere? Try moving your checker around. I read that you said it's in an office so it's probably getting a ton of indirect light plus what you are giving it. That may be why the algae stared on your glass first. How much direct light do you give it per day. Is everything on timers? We'll figure it out.


I hear yah on the Co2 and Hair Algae. When I first filled the tank, I had some hair algae after the filter cycled about 2 weeks in, I was still fiddling my co2 setup then, and it was on the low side. Since, I've gotten it stable, at least for this past week it has. Figure a week of stable Co2, would make the hair algae go away, maybe it needs longer? The HC is responding extremely well, pearls like crazy. I have a 7up tank, and that's not from injected co2, its from the plants actually. (stopped the filter)

First person in my office gets in around 6:30am, tank does get partial of the ceiling lights, but it isn't strong enough to get much of a reaction on the plants, no pearling, the tank is setup partially under my cabinets. Co2 kick on at about the same time, 6:30am. Lights starts to go through sunrise at 8am-9am. 2:30pm, Co2 shuts off, 3:30-4:30pm, lights go through sunset. Office is cleared by 4:45pm, pitch black. Saturday & Sundays, no one is in, so there is no ambient light, only lights is from my tank. Hair algae was limited to just the front glass, it has now moved to partly the sides, back and the rocks. Could be just from moving my light around a bit.

Come to think of it, I did enable clouds on my light, dims for a few seconds randomly between 0-10 minutes. I figured this would reduce some light, but hasn't made an effect.

I haven't tried to move my drop checker, I didn't think it'll matter as its fairly consistent with tank water tests, just delayed. I have an Eheim 2213 and there is lots of flow everywhere.

I'm going to do maintenance today, as I won't be in the office for this week, going to have a baby sitter though. I suppose I can try one of two, either reduce light output, reduce primary photo duration, or increase Co2. I'd rather do lights first, since it would be less harmful than if say the tank gasses out. I won't be here to reduce the Co2, I can't rely on my babysitter to do the adjustments.. :smile:

Bump:


houseofcards said:


> As you mentioned, when you trimmed down the HC you removed a considerable amount of plant mass that was sucking up nutrients in the water column. In addition what was left looks like it had to recover before really doing much, so running same light cycle, same everything wasn't going to work anymore.
> 
> I would run a shorter duration
> Increase water changes
> ...


glad someone noticed that. So what do people do when they trim? Granted I made the mistake of waiting between trims so long, 1 week sooner and I think the lower layer wouldn't have started to dye off. Off topic but should should we compensate for trimming?


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## pucksr (Jan 27, 2011)

You have no shrimp in the tank?
Drop in some mollies. They are nearly immune to bad water and they destroy hair algae. They are also relatively cheap. They may not have them in Hawaii though(they can live in salt water and be invasive).


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

houseofcards said:


> Good co2 is important, but all the co2 in the world is not going to help if there isn't enough plant mass.


Very good point HoC. Maybe some taller grasses in the back. You do need something more to compete with that algae. I would also go ahead with the shrimp instead of waiting. based on the size of your tank, I'd go ten amanos and 30 rcs to start. May seem like a lot but it isn't.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

quark said:


> 2: never thought about it. Its in my office and temps goes from 69-73F


Keep in mind that as temps increase C02 dissolution also increases, and 02 decreases. Lower temps = less C02 and more 02. Lower temps just cause the C02 to off-gas faster, because the water can only hold so much...at a given temp. :thumbsup:


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

Naja002 said:


> Keep in mind that as temps increase C02 dissolution also increases, and 02 decreases. Lower temps = less C02 and more 02. Lower temps just cause the C02 to off-gas faster, because the water can only hold so much...at a given temp. :thumbsup:


Hold on a second......

Co2 and O2 are both treated as a gas in the aquarium. According to Henry's Law "At a constant temperature, the amount of a given gas that dissolves in a given type and volume of liquid is directly proportional to the partial pressure of that gas in equilibrium with that liquid."

this goes for any gas, and based on the formula, the lower the temperature, the more gas can be dissolved. The levels in an aquarium isn't no where near the maximum saturation levels of gas that by having a atmospheric level of O2 in the tank, it would not allow the Co2 to dissolve to the target concentrations we are reaching for.

Any chemists or physics professors care to chime in? :smile:

Bump:


Naja002 said:


> Keep in mind that as temps increase C02 dissolution also increases, and 02 decreases. Lower temps = less C02 and more 02. Lower temps just cause the C02 to off-gas faster, because the water can only hold so much...at a given temp. :thumbsup:


Hold on a second......

Co2 and O2 are both treated as a gas in the aquarium. According to Henry's Law "At a constant temperature, the amount of a given gas that dissolves in a given type and volume of liquid is directly proportional to the partial pressure of that gas in equilibrium with that liquid."

this goes for any gas, and based on the formula, the lower the temperature, the more gas can be dissolved. The levels in an aquarium isn't no where near the maximum saturation levels of gas that by having a atmospheric level of O2 in the tank, it would not allow the Co2 to dissolve to the target concentrations we are reaching for.

Any chemists or physics professors care to chime in? :smile:


I have our local Neo's in my tank, but I don't think they do that good a job. :icon_sad:


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## greaser84 (Feb 2, 2014)

Most algae problems stem from light and/or C02. I'd start with cutting the photo period down to 6 hours or so. See how that goes and take it from there. Its a fairly new tank and possibly is still trying to balance itself out. If you want add an algae eating creature, I recommend the nerite snail (black racer is my fav) hands down the best and most efficient algae eater in the aquarium world. You'll never have to scrub those rocks again with a nerite snail or two.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

quark said:


> The levels in an aquarium isn't no where near the maximum saturation levels of gas that by having a atmospheric level of O2 in the tank, it would not allow the Co2 to dissolve to the target concentrations we are reaching for.


C02 and 02 are not affected by each other. You can have high C02 and 02, low C02 and 02...or any combination in between.

However, I did get that wrong before: Lower temps more dissolution, higher temps less dissolution.

Been away for a few yrs and try to refresh, so thanks! :thumbsup:



BTW, Is the A/c turned off in your office over the weekend? If so, the higher temp maybe causing a reduction in the C02 in the tank...same lights, ferts, etc...less C02.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

Awesome ideas here.

I really do want to try one thing at a time, to see the effect. So would it be better to reduce intensity? or photoperiod? With these high tech led controllers, I can do both. Prior, it was just easier to do less photoperiod from the timer. So curious if that's the norm because of ease, or if its actually better. I mean, in the wild, there is way more longer photoperiods. Sunrises also can take longer, which I can do too in my tank.

I have A/C 24/7.....we need stuff cooled down, but the temps only fluctuate between 69degrees Fahrenheit at night, and back up to 74 during the working hours, that's just from equipment heat and bodies in the office. Weekends, it stays at a pretty constant 69-68degrees Fahrenheit.

Algae eating creatures, yes, something to keep it manageable. Nerite snail sounds good, that algae on the rocks, its hard enough with an electric toothbrush. lol


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

quark said:


> Awesome ideas here.
> 
> I really do want to try one thing at a time, to see the effect. So would it be better to reduce intensity? or photoperiod? With these high tech led controllers, I can do both. Prior, it was just easier to do less photoperiod from the timer. So curious if that's the norm because of ease, or if its actually better. I mean, in the wild, there is way more longer photoperiods. Sunrises also can take longer, which I can do too in my tank.
> 
> ...


As long as you have any light whether its sunrise, sunset etc. you have a photo period. Try seven hours max from start to finish with the bright light. 68- 69 degrees is far too low for a tank and you are experiencing this for at least 12 hours each night and 24 on weekends. You have almost a 10% change in temp per day. Not good. 72 - 76 is where you want to be. You need a heater and I will not help you any more until you get one LOL! Seriously, you have been given all the answers you need on this thread. I speak from 40 years of experience and no algae.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

Aquadawg said:


> As long as you have any light whether its sunrise, sunset etc. you have a photo period. Try seven hours max from start to finish with the bright light. 68- 69 degrees is far too low for a tank and you are experiencing this for at least 12 hours each night and 24 on weekends. You have almost a 10% change in temp per day. Not good. 72 - 76 is where you want to be. You need a heater and I will not help you any more until you get one LOL! Seriously, you have been given all the answers you need on this thread. I speak from 40 years of experience and no algae.


Well gosh, hold my beer, let me work on that 20 more years of experience. :icon_lol:.
Granted my 20 years of experience has been with lower tech planted tank, larger tanks 55gal- 220gal, that was manageable.

To be honest, I wasn't sure the temps would have been a problem at my office. its now been close to 5 hours and the tank and air temp is still around 74. I haven't charted the temp changes yet, but we'll get there. I figured the temps would have affected my livestock much more than plants, let alone the algae. I've been getting amazing growth on the HC, its just this darn hair algae.

So I did a 50% WC, rinsed my filter, stuck a bag of purigen in it, and I've knocked off 2 hours off my light schedule in the morning, same with the co2, so we'll see what comes of it.
Also checked my params, and did notice an increase of nitrates, Nitrates were 20-30ppm when it normally stays at 5-20ppm, this does coincides with my reduction in plant mass.


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## HUNTER (Sep 4, 2012)

So much emphasis on algae cause by lack of Co2. If it's that simple, you wouldn't see much complain about algae. If you're livestocks need to be in cooler temp, you can't just raise it. I say start with cutting you're photoperiod, dim the lights or raise the lights. If you feel or tested you're Co2 and it's at a proper level, don't raise it, it's just not good for livestocks. I played around with lights, Co2, ferts etc. and still I have BBA, not much, but it's there. Either I cut the leaves off or completely get rid of that plant, not everyone's way of doing it, but works for me.


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## Higher Thinking (Mar 16, 2011)

While there are some viable solutions proposed, and also some not so viable, I think it's tough to make any suggestions without knowing how intense those lights are. For all you know, you could be dropping 100 par on the substrate. I was running an LED on my 20l low tech and started getting some hair algae. I tested it with a par meter and was shocked to see it was still putting out 70 on the substrate. This was with the unit turned WAY down. LEDs are tricky sometimes because there are a wide range of various sizes and strengths and they aren't really consistent from one to the other. 

As for temperatures being a problem, why can people have ponds or other cold water tanks and not have any algae issues? Because you don't have algae at 76 degrees does not necessitate that having your temps at a lower degree will produce algae. Like previously mentioned, I would love some links or places where I can verify this information. I'm not arguing against you're experiences, I'm just saying that the fact some people have algae-free ponds in the mid 60s seems to refute temps as a cause of algae.

Last, I would be weary of someone with 40 years experience and no algae. Either they are not completely honest about these four decades or they are the greatest planted tank keeper in the universe and can probably harness the powers of the galaxy to bend to their will. [emoji32] Either way, watch out.


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## Higher Thinking (Mar 16, 2011)

Also starting with lower intensity lighting always gives room to increase the intensity. Starting with too much and trying to work your way down is difficult because algae already exists. I'd wipe out that algae and reduce intensity. LEDs are not as bright to us visually because they are so focused. I wouldn't deal with a reduced photo period at this point. If you're blasting your substrate with 100 par it doesn't matter whether lights are on for 6 hours or 8.


Also, it doesn't matter if you have 10ppm or 30ppm of nitrates. Or anything else around those numbers, frankly. Tom Barr routinely speaks of much higher values. You need to make sure you have enough nutrients to go around. Don't worry about excess. Healthy plants grow and algae doesn't when there are enough nutrients, enough co2, and light becomes the limiting factor.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

Interesting thread

Anecdotal: I am running a high tech tank with no heater (69°-72°) with zero hair algae


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

Higher Thinking said:


> Last, I would be weary of someone with 40 years experience and no algae. Either they are not completely honest about these four decades or they are the greatest planted tank keeper in the universe and can probably harness the powers of the galaxy to bend to their will. [emoji32] Either way, watch out.


Higher Thinking... I didn't state anywhere that I had never had algae in 40 years. I have no algae at present. I am shocked you would belittle someone who is simply trying to help someone else. When you speak poorly of someone else, you speak poorly of yourself.

Bump:


quark said:


> Well gosh, hold my beer, let me work on that 20 more years of experience. :icon_lol:.


Ok you are back in my good graces LOL. I wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted as to how you are doing.


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## Kat12 (Aug 11, 2013)

Aquadawg said:


> Higher Thinking... I didn't state anywhere that I had never had algae in 40 years. I have no algae at present. I am shocked you would belittle someone who is simply trying to help someone else. When you speak poorly of someone else, you speak poorly of yourself.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> Ok you are back in my good graces LOL. I wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted as to how you are doing.


"I speak from 40 years of experience and no algae."
Really did read as though you said you've never had algae.


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

Kat12 said:


> "I speak from 40 years of experience and no algae."
> Really did read as though you said you've never had algae.


Kat12, Then I worded my sentence poorly. I have had my share of algae. All kinds. I have no algae at present because I have learned how to keep it at bay through my own mistakes. I am simply trying to help someone who asked for advice. Could I have worded it better? Probably. Maybe you could offer quark some suggestions as well.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

Higher Thinking said:


> While there are some viable solutions proposed, and also some not so viable, I think it's tough to make any suggestions without knowing how intense those lights are. For all you know, you could be dropping 100 par on the substrate. I was running an LED on my 20l low tech and started getting some hair algae. I tested it with a par meter and was shocked to see it was still putting out 70 on the substrate. This was with the unit turned WAY down. LEDs are tricky sometimes because there are a wide range of various sizes and strengths and they aren't really consistent from one to the other.
> 
> As for temperatures being a problem, why can people have ponds or other cold water tanks and not have any algae issues? Because you don't have algae at 76 degrees does not necessitate that having your temps at a lower degree will produce algae. Like previously mentioned, I would love some links or places where I can verify this information. I'm not arguing against you're experiences, I'm just saying that the fact some people have algae-free ponds in the mid 60s seems to refute temps as a cause of algae.


Well put there about Par and it does stick out like a sore thumb, this is the only variable I can think of right now that I can't measure! I've asked Dave over at NanoBoxReef to see if he can get a customer to get some PAR values for the light, he's got em for his reef lights, but not the planted tank ones. A little OT but I believe they are Luxeon Rebel ES, 9 of them in various colors, one red, one cyan, 4 cool whites, and 4 warm whites, no lenses, running at about 60% output, best I can do is measure the amp draw, but that's going to require me to dismantle some stuff.

And low temps causing algae?, I too want to see some literature on that.

In any case, I'm still away from my desk this whole week, so I won't be able to see too well how my knocking off 2 hours of light will do till next week, but I'm glad to know that the tank is well taken care of, and should this hurricane that is on its way hit, the building the tank is in won't collapse, lol.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I live in New York and I've pretty much stopped using heaters the last few years in all my tanks. The temps go down to maybe 68/69 at night and then back up to 71-73 in the day time during the winter months. I have not noticed any algae issues and specifically hair algae. That being said if your doing something that will slow down your plants the reduce uptake I could see causing algae, but every tank will be different in that regard. That' why I've always treated algae from an organic control standpoint. If you don't have the uptake via plant mass or speed or even if you do it's always beneficial to reduce light duration (if too long), increase water change %, use carbon/purigen, reduce feeding/livestock if possible. 

I don't believe the inorganic salts we dump in via EI cause algae, it's the organic breakdown releasing ammonia, etc that does. Look at new tanks and old tanks, which usually get alage. New tanks don't have the biofilter yet so we need to increase water changes, carbon, etc. to get rid of the breakdown. Old tanks have a build up of organics that the system can't handle unless we change things. Both are usually algae prone.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

HUNTER said:


> So much emphasis on algae cause by lack of Co2. If it's that simple, you wouldn't see much complain about algae. If you're livestocks need to be in cooler temp, you can't just raise it. I say start with cutting you're photoperiod, dim the lights or raise the lights. If you feel or tested you're Co2 and it's at a proper level, don't raise it, it's just not good for livestocks. I played around with lights, Co2, ferts etc. and still I have BBA, not much, but it's there. Either I cut the leaves off or completely get rid of that plant, not everyone's way of doing it, but works for me.


That is because CO2 is not a simple thing, there's O2 as it relates to fish respiration, there's temp and different rates of demand at different temps for both CO2 and O2, there's 101 ways to mess up the measure of CO2, or think you have enough CO2 in the water, when you do not. 

If you have algae, then the CO2 is NOT at the right level 95-99 time out of hundred for a given light intensity, that's the simplest test there is.

Have algae? Then something is wrong, most often, something to do with CO2.
You can reduce light to reduce CO2 demand...............but high or low light algae issues, still are rooted with CO2 issues.

Bump:


houseofcards said:


> New tanks don't have the biofilter yet so we need to increase water changes, carbon, etc. to get rid of the breakdown. Old tanks have a build up of organics that the system can't handle unless we change things. Both are usually algae prone.


Generally with lower temps, you have higher O2 and with sumps etc, you have 1-2 ppm higher O2. So this means waste is rapidly and effectively broken down. If you have a lull or lowering of the O2, say via temp change, via poor CO2(plants do not produce NEARLY as much O2 with poor CO2), clogged filter, lots of waste(dead fish, rotting plants, muck, no flow through a filter etc).

Then you have troubles.
Water changes, good general care, routine cleaning, GOOD CO2.........for any temperature, particularly target the higher temps for optimal CO2, not the lower temps. Also, fish metabolism does what when the Temp is say @30 C vs say 20C? How might that alone impact fish health and O2/CO2 respiration rates?

How about plant growth and demand rates for CO2 with temp variations?

Hair algae seems to be much more CO2 issue.
Just needs 2 main things, a source of hair algae spores and then poor slightly off CO2. Higher light= more likely chance things will wreck and end up growing poorly.

Moderate light= best management method.

You know all this, but it's adding to what you already stated:icon_cool


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Hair algae seems to be much more CO2 issue.
> Just needs 2 main things, a source of hair algae spores and then poor slightly off CO2. Higher light= more likely chance things will wreck and end up growing poorly.
> 
> Moderate light= best management method.
> ...


Don't disagree of course with much you have said, but without enough plant mass wouldn't increase co2 without organic removal simply be more food for algae :biggrin:

I know your talking good co2 management, and yes I agree many here probably don't 'really' understand how much co2 they have reaching plants, but in a case of iwagumi (OP tank) the carpet looked good, removed plant mass via large trim algae got much worse with same co2 levels, so back to plant mass and not enough to remove breakdown.


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## puddlez (Aug 7, 2014)

High lights needs more co2


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

I always think that when people say you need good CO2, this also is with the understanding that you have enough plant biomass. 

I tore down a tank about 3 months ago and it was a small 8 gallon tank on which i ran my canister filter on plus a powerhead to ripple the surface pretty well. Having invested into a pH meter (and a good quality one at that) I measured the pH drop and typically it was 0.7 - 0.9 lower when CO2 was on. Now, i don't really know why, but that tank just never did well. Clado was present, BBA was there, although not like a sheet, pretty bad to the point where some of the bolbitus leaves were coated with bits of it. 

But my main tank, a 17 gallon where i run a sump and have a pH drop of 0.8-1.0 (i put a range since i have changed the CO2 over the course of many months), virtually no BBA. The only algae i deal with when i do have issues is thread algae, which sucks. But I beat it back with just healthy plants believe it or not. Took a while, but I knew that if the plants could recover, they would eventually beat out the algae. I had this huge bloom of the thread algae one time and it was literally a ball that came out of the tank. I cleaned up as much as I could, waterchanged and blacked it out for 3 days. After, the plants slowly recovered, algae was still coming back but I jsut kept up teh water changes and removing what i could. Come 2 months later, i could not see a trace of the thread algae and the plants were doing great. I was able to trim and uproot plants pretty heavily from here and still no algae blooms. 

Between my 2 tanks, I do not really understand why they are so drastically different. However I know that CO2 was better dissolved in the 17 gallon, was higher and more stable since rate at which dissolve was faster, and O2 levels were much better. This tank is also housing only PRL's and Supreme Red shrimp. So very sensitive livestock. But I haven't needed to tough my CO2 dial for months, and since i got a good regulator, i can leave it and trust it's pretty consistent. So keeping things stable i believe helps a lot. 

For your issue, if you can dose it , algaefix (destroys ur shrimp, well it did a number on mine) has worked for me in a previous tank, but you need healthy plants as well otherwise itll just come back. Healthy plants come from good stable CO2 levels and water changes will keep the water cleaner to remove those nasty organics that can build up. Blackouts ime work really well against hair and thread algaes. A little excel helps as well to hurt it during the process. Remove as much as possible, water changes after the blackout.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

puopg said:


> I always think that when people say you need good CO2, *this also is with the understanding that you have enough plant biomass*.


Not on this forum anyway. It's pretty much brought up all the time and the oP has like no mass in his tank or sometimes an iwagumi which are usually low in mass as well. Not saying of course that good co2 won't help many tanks, but you have to think in a thinly planted tank, what will have a bigger impact on algae. Keeping your tank cleaner or keeping your drop checker very yellow.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

Just an update, Dropping the photoperiod 2 hours, didn't do very much in terms of controlling the algae. I had about the same hair algae growth in a week. Last week, I added 4 otto's to help, (I can't get amano's here in hawaii, easily). I also dropped the intensity from running at 58% down to 40% ( I ran 40% light when I was DSM'ing, and it grew great). The combination of ottos, and the reduction in light intensity has helped curb the algae issue. I was honestly surprised that the Otto's ate the hair algae, I could see it on the glass with scrape marks, but its almost completely gone from the S. Repens. This with all else being equal, except with Co2 levels, I've been having some issues keeping the drop checker yellow, its mostly greenish yellow, (issues with my clippard needle valve) The HC has responded to lower light intensity/duration as well with smaller leaf size. Its tiny now. Since I've ordered a Lux meter, one of those Hoppy has been able to convert to PAR meter, just to get an idea of how much light I have. It makes sense that hair algae is related to the balance of CO2, and light. Someone said, somewhere on TPT, max out the co2 to the limit of the inhabitants, and use the lights as a gas pedal.

On a side note, I wonder if I have a deficiency as well, as the S. Repens leaves are really lite in color, almost whitish. Here is the timeline pics, each taken before a glass scraping, tooth brushing, 50% water change. I'll go this coming week with overdosing excel to try and get rid of the hair algae in the HC carpet. I want to save this tank, and keep it going. Hopefully my Lux meter comes in by then, and I can get some numbers from my lights.

*Monday 8/4/2014*









*Monday 8/11/2014*









*Tuesday 8/19/2014*


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Have you considered dosing something like excel or metricide 14 (same thing as excel but cheaper) Along with being used as an alternative carbon source it has the added benefit of killing algae and other microbes. Just check how it interacts with HC and your s repens.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

wlevine09 said:


> Have you considered dosing something like excel or metricide 14 (same thing as excel but cheaper) Along with being used as an alternative carbon source it has the added benefit of killing algae and other microbes. Just check how it interacts with HC and your s repens.


That is my game plan for this week, just to get the hair algae out of the HC. I want to get to the root cause, before dosing excel. It does have double benefits as you mentioned, however, I think as an algaecide, I need to overdose, I'll probably start with 2-3 times the recommended amount. I think once I have my rough PAR reading, I can set my lighting levels.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

CO2, CO2 and CO2, too much light.........other things perhaps: lack of water changes, temp is too high, you live in HW, but is the tank air conditioned? Unless you live up in the mountains, it's likely pretty warm. 

Excel will NOT kill hair algae, spot dosing yes, but not whole tank treatments. 
Algaefix will kill it however. 

Small tanks also pose issues since evaporation is high, which causes the surface returns for filters to vary a great deal, thereby blowing off a lot of CO2.
So you have a few things going against you here. 

Better CO2, more water changes(HC loves these), evaporation replacements more frequent etc. Folks have told you what to do, so now it's up to you to take the advice or keep suffering.

I can get rid of it without the chemicals, but it's tougher/more labor.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

plantbrain said:


> CO2, CO2 and CO2, too much light.........other things perhaps: lack of water changes, temp is too high, you live in HW, but is the tank air conditioned? Unless you live up in the mountains, it's likely pretty warm.
> 
> Excel will NOT kill hair algae, spot dosing yes, but not whole tank treatments.
> Algaefix will kill it however.
> ...


Hi Tom,

Thanks for the reply, I don't like to use chemicals either, figure I'd give it a try. This tank is in my office, so the temps are between 69-71, 24x7 AC, WC once a week, per EI dosingroud:. I think the weekends is what is causing the blooms, you mentioned a good point about small tank and evaporation. I've also been keeping a eye on my evap, one thing that was causing me issues is over the weekend when I'm not in my office. Often times, I get in on Mondays and the surface is being agitated heavily.

One of my goals is to get the CO2 extremely stable, I did hear lots about Co2 and algae, but I didn't expect a couple days of unstable CO2 to cause an algae breakout.

sigh.....I should have stuck to my 120gal, so much more stable........these nano's......heh.....Challenge Accepted!


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## GoGo98102 (Apr 22, 2014)

My tank is in my guest room and my family came over for a month and opened the window. Where the sun light hit the tank, I had A TON of hair algae. I tried everything- high CO2, low/no light... nothing worked. Now my tank is spotless. I did 2 things:

1. I spot treated my hair algae injecting Excel for 3 days, once a day. By 4th day, I could see discolored hair algae but they were still there.
2. Local pet shop was having a 50% off all fish sale. I bought 2 Singapore shrimps just for fun. As soon as I released them to the tank, they started eating hair algae non-stop. 

By day 7, I had nothing, no algae of any kind, left in the tank. Now they climb on top of my tallest plants trying to catch food in the water. I ended up getting algae wafers to feed them. I hope this is one more useful info. I have never heard of Singapore shrimps eating hair algae before. It was pure luck on my end.


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## quark (Jan 10, 2014)

*Success! somewhat...*

Thanks everyone for all the recommendations and yes, I think the root cause of my hair algae was high light, and not enough co2. I got my cheap lux meter (LX1010B) that Hoppy was using and got an estimated conversion to PAR. Previously, I was putting out 60 par at the substrate in the center, now I'm at about 40 par. Measured dry, so I think its a bit more if its in water. Here is a breakdown of what I've been doing so far:

Less light duration, from 8 hours to 6 hours.
Less light output from estimated 60 par to 40 par.
Added 4 ottos.
Increased/stabilized co2, estimated 30ppm, or to the point fish are hanging out at surface, yellow drop checker, co2 on 2 hours before lights)
slight increase of EI dosing to get more phosphates.
replaced 90 degree elbow in CO2 reactor for more water circulation.
(I run an eheim 2213 on my 3.5 gallon tank, water moves in a CCW motion)
Water top off every other day.
Measured water parameters before weekly WC:
NH3=0 ppm
NO2=0 ppm
NO3=25 ppm
PO4=2 ppm
PH=6.4
dGH=10
dKH=5
TDS=410

Observations:
Hair Algae is no longer visible. Only trace is on the glass, seen sideways as slight green build up.
HC growth has significantly been reduced to more than 50%, evident by water tests before a WC, and less trimming. Prior, NO3 and PO4 would be severely low down to 10ppm and .5 ppm.
Blyxa used to be a stump with 3 leaves, now growing, and reddish, (indication of strong light?, really? at only 40 par)
Tank has signs of BBA, on S. Repens leaves, and used to be on drop checker.
Signs of what seems like GSA on older S. Repens leaves, and lower layer of HC, evident after a trim.
some blueish green fuzz like algae on rocks, nothing I've seen before.

Overall, I think the tank recovered well, however, the presence of other algae still tells me I have a long way to go, specially with CO2. I think I'm ready to buy a Parker H3 or H2 metering valve, my Clippard MNV4 requires daily micro turn increase, at a certain point, its just too much and requires closing and opening again. Does not work well with about 30psi working pressure.

Last but not least, pictures!

*Monday 8/4/2014*









*Monday 8/11/2014*









*Tuesday 8/19/2014*









*9/2/2014*









*9/10/2014*









*9/18/2014*









*9/19/2014 Algae closeup*


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## BHolmes (Aug 23, 2012)

Great job on following all of the good info in here. I really like the time lapse of the tank.
If you spot treat the BBA with hydrogen peroxide it will disappear. You could also use more of it than metricide or excel and it is not a chemical.
The tank looks great though


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## saiko (Mar 30, 2007)

One of the best happy ending algae stories I have read.
Many thanks for your pictures. And all the best for a beautiful tank


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Go otos go!!!!


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