# Low co2 tank dosing



## outlate (Dec 11, 2008)

Am new to this and have a few basic questions. For reference the tank is 75 gallons, about 130 watts of t-8 lighting with diy co2. I measured my Kh to be 7 and Ph to be 7.6. Think that put my co2 at about 5.25 The only thing I add is flourish and florapride in small amounts weekly. My plants seem fairly healthy and algae not too bad, some hair and some on glass. Question is should I be dosing anything else or should I be concerned about the low co2 level?


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

First, it sounds like you are using the Kh/pH/C02 chart...if so, throw it away. In the garabge. It's wrong much more often then not.

Florapride



> a combination of nutrients including potassium and iron. FloraPride is a vital compliment to substrate fertilizers as part of a complete plant care program. FloraPride does not contain phosphates or nitrates.


You may be getting by with the low light and fish food/waste, but the algae is telling you that things are not quite up to snuff. How is your DIY C02 system made?


----------



## outlate (Dec 11, 2008)

2 (2 liter) bottles for reactors and they feed into the intake of a powerhead.


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

For a tank that size, I would personally go the pressurized c02 route and for starters to contain the algae, I would reduce photoperiod to 8 hours tops. What kind of fish do you have. It may not be a bad idea to consider adding some algae eaters. IME, albino bristlnose plecos, Siamese Algae Eaters, Amano Shrimp work well. Others swear by mollies, florida flag fish for hair algae and Zebra nerite snails. The focus should be on containment of existing algae and preventative measures to keep it from getting worse. Pressurized c02 and reduced photoperiod will help with the prevention side of the equation and the algae eaters will help with containment. In the past when I have had similar algae issues, this strategy worked well. If you cannot afford pressurized c02, you may have to increase to 4 DIY 2 litre bottles or more and change the mixture in the bottle weekly to keep c02 stable. I would definitely also look at using Tom Barr's Estimative Index fert scheme. The powdered micro and macro ferts you need can be had for a fraction of what you pay for commercial preparations and Estimative Index is a true, tried and proven scheme that works for most and eliminates the guess work although you may have to play around with how often and how much you dose based on trial and error.

For algae containment and elimination you can also temporarly spot treat and or double dose Flourish Excel, but for a tank your size that could get costly.


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

outlate said:


> 2 (2 liter) bottles for reactors and they feed into the intake of a powerhead.


Pressurized is the best choice, but otherwise: You should bump that up to 3x 1gal jugs and swap the oldest one out every week.

The algae on the glass should be GSA or GDA. Does it wipe off easily or not?


----------



## outlate (Dec 11, 2008)

I have 4 SAE's and some oto's for algae eaters. I'm running the lights for about 10.5 hours. Algae on the glass can be hard to get off, especially if it's there for a while. I might try to reduce the photo period to 8 or 9 hours. I'll try to look up the EI fert. A picture of the tank is in my user tanks if your interested. Have rotala, crypts, java fern etc. Also is there a better way to measure co2?


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

outlate said:


> ....is there a better way to measure co2?


Yes, there is, using a drop checker like the one shown on the link below.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Co2-Drop-Checker...14&_trkparms=72:1215|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318


----------



## outlate (Dec 11, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions. Think I'll get the drop checker to get a better handle of where my co2 level is. Also have cut the light back a little, will continue to experiment with that also.


----------



## outlate (Dec 11, 2008)

Got my drop checker in the mail today and set it up. Thanks for the link to that Homer. Tried to find ferts locally, but have not had much luck. I might order some on line if I have to.


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

outlate said:


> Got my drop checker in the mail today and set it up. Thanks for the link to that Homer. Tried to find ferts locally, but have not had much luck. I might order some on line if I have to.


You are welcome. Rex Grigg is the best on-line source of on-line ferts IMHO.
http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/ferts.html

Now, the solution that comes with those drop checkers and not just the one I recommended may not give you accurate readings. You can make your own. I will try to find the instructions for doing so and post for you.

Edit: Okay, here you go. Don't feel intimidated by the instructions. When I first saw this I was intimidated and felt it would be too difficult, but if you follow the instructions exactly, you will find it is pretty easy and you will save yourself an arm and a leg in purchasing additional drop checker solution should your run out. You want to replace the solution in the drop checker at least monthly if not sooner. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/42429-kh-standard-how.html

If you would rather buy some solution. The guy who came up with the recipe also sells it but his solution will be more accurate due to the quality of ingredients and greater accuracy of measurements. 

Here is his site if you decide to buy. You want the 4dKH
http://liquidarthome.net/khstandard


----------



## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Speaking from recent experience, I would suggest saving up for a pressurized CO2 system if you can swing it. Trying to keep consistent CO2 levels in any tank is tough with DIY CO2, and it is tougher yet in large tanks. If you start bouncing the CO2 levels too much you will get an entirely new set of algae problems. Once you figure the cost in sugar alone in keeping several bottles going at the same time, it becomes easier to justify the regulator purchase.

Slightly off topic: has anyone actually quantified that the pH/KH/CO2 chart is "wrong much more often then not"? I understand the issue, but I wonder how accurate that statement truly is. I do both methods and my drop checkers and the chart check out within an acceptable margin of error in all of my tanks and they have for some time now. I use drop checkers because they are so much easier and I don't need to worry about tank conditions changing and messing up my calculations, but I have yet to see anything significant affect the curves.

Dave


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

DaveS said:


> Speaking from recent experience, I would suggest saving up for a pressurized CO2 system if you can swing it. Trying to keep consistent CO2 levels in any tank is tough with DIY CO2, and it is tougher yet in large tanks. If you start bouncing the CO2 levels too much you will get an entirely new set of algae problems. Once you figure the cost in sugar alone in keeping several bottles going at the same time, it becomes easier to justify the regulator purchase.
> 
> Slightly off topic: has anyone actually quantified that the pH/KH/CO2 chart is "wrong much more often then not"? I understand the issue, but I wonder how accurate that statement truly is. I do both methods and my drop checkers and the chart check out within an acceptable margin of error in all of my tanks and they have for some time now. I use drop checkers because they are so much easier and I don't need to worry about tank conditions changing and messing up my calculations, but I have yet to see anything significant affect the curves.
> 
> Dave



O.k. I will bite only because sometimes I just enjoy being a sh*t disturber. This issue has been discussed with a general consensus that the drop checker is more accurate than the charts. Now, I have avoided getting caught up in something where there is some controvesy and most people will avoid it for fear of being flamed and ridiculed. Understand that I learn hands on, by doing and observing, so for me this really defies explanation and raises whether a drop checker is in fact more or less accurate then the charts. 

Before folks intervene and flame me, hear me out. I set up an experimental 10 gallon tank with DIY c02, used a drop checker and highly efficient c02 diffuser.
http://azdhan.googlepages.com/thelostworld.com

Now, I logged all water parameters every month including drop checker c02 readings and c02 measurements as chart would suggest. At one point, black beard algae reared its ugly head. Now, I don't think most folks will argue that the emergence of black beard is a classic example of low c02 levels. 
Scroll down to the water parameter and c02 readings dated March 22 2008 when the Black Beard algae was at its peak. C02 drop checker indicated 30 ppm as per lime green color and c02 rate calculation chart indicated only 11.7 ppm. This was not a one time isolated difference of this magnitude but ongoing. So, if BBA was really caused by submarginal c02 levels, then what was providing a more accurate reading in this case: the drop checker showing a nice lime green(30 ppm) or the c02 calculation chart showing only 11.7 ppm, or were they both just wrong as I am sure most people will say. If you accept the fact or argue that the c02 drop checker grossly under-estimated the c02 level, perhaps due to the 4dkh solution used, then you have to accept the fact that the c02 chart in this case may have been closer to the actual c02 rate. And when the dust settles, it really boils down to inconsistent c02 levels provided by the DIY C02 and I know that pressurized c02 would have fixed the mess, but I could not afford it at the time. Just something to ponder. Take it FWIW. I am not trying to open up old wounds by posting this or trying to start a heated debate or war of words.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

DaveS said:


> Slightly off topic: has anyone actually quantified that the pH/KH/CO2 chart is "wrong much more often then not"? I understand the issue, but I wonder how accurate that statement truly is. I do both methods and my drop checkers and the chart check out within an acceptable margin of error in all of my tanks and they have for some time now. I use drop checkers because they are so much easier and I don't need to worry about tank conditions changing and messing up my calculations, but I have yet to see anything significant affect the curves.
> 
> Dave


Tom Barr has done quite extensive studies on CO2 in a lab. According to his reports, the CO2 distribution even in a very-well-circulated water column is extremely variable. CO2-related pH changes are also therefore variable, especially as there is a time delay in the formation of the carbonic acid that lowers the pH, and so many other processes in a tank that will also affect a tank's pH.


----------



## outlate (Dec 11, 2008)

Still working on getting the co2 to the right level. Drop checker shows a dark green, and by kh ph chart it's about 12-13. Looking into pressurized co2, would be a good excuse to keep beer on tap also I guess. Haven't got any other ferts yet, was thinking of ordering from Rex Grigg's sight.


----------

