# WP's 250 gal Plywood Starphire Tank



## Wasserpest

*Prep and Planning*

Last year I built another large plywood (double) tank for two reasons - to temporarily house plants and fish from my to be discontinued 100gal tank, and to gain some experience with plywood/epoxy tanks. Sitting in the garage, it wouldn't be a huge disaster if something failed. Now, with that experience, I am ready to take on the "ultimate show tank" that will be inside the house, hopefully for a long time.

With the previous plywood tank, I cheaped out on many things. To keep risks low, this time I am going for more safety. Instead of $0.38 sprinkler extenders, I am using real bulk heads. To further prevent any leaking, I am going to add some expensive Sweetwater Epoxy paint over the Coat-It epoxy.

I did some research on various related things earlier this year:

General design
Optimum size
Water change options
Glass choices

Thanks to all that helped making decisions. Basically I settled down with 70 x 30 x 28 (tall) dimensions, non-tempered Starphire glass, and a water change system that incorporates a passive overflow.

Besides the standard things that would go into a tank like this, I thought up some new ideas, hopefully they will work out. For example, I am planning to exhaust the hot canopy air into the garage, both to keep temperature in the room down, and with the fans running in the garage, I should be able to quietly enjoy the tank. I will post things in detail as I build them.

First pictures to follow soon.


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## hydrophyte

i can't wait to see this. it will be impressive.

it looks as though you copied those links with the url tags into the link box, so they don't really go anywhere.


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## kali

you're truly a DIY"re...


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## doug105

FYI

This month's issue of FAMA has an article about building a
fiberglass and plywood aquarium. Might be a few helpful ideas
in it............

Doug N


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## Wasserpest

*Humble beginnings*

A photo album thread without photos is a bit sad. 

Previously I had mainly worked with plywood. Once dimensions go beyond 24", this starts to get really expensive. So I studied some of the excellent DIY stand threads, and started with a number of 2x4s. These have the annoying tendency to look fairly straight in the store, and start to twist as soon as you unload them from your car.










My wife let me borrow her office to assemble the top and bottom frame. Continuing in the garage, I screwed and glued the stand together. I followed this design and made some modifications to support a plywood tank (rather than a glass tank with a frame).










So far, so good.


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## mountaindew

Cool!
I always enjoy a good build thread.
And Large tanks just add to the cool factor.
Good luck with your project 
MD


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## CL

Awesome! I was gonna say it looks like you used rocketengineers stand, but then I saw your link. Awesome job! I hate how 2x4s are always so twisted (which is why I used 1x4s and 1x6s to build my 40 breeder stand, hand tools and twisted wood don't work out well). If you have an 84 lumber near you, or some other lumber store, you can usually get better wood there, for about 1/2 the price.
I can't wait to see this beast built!


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## hydrophyte

clwatkins10 said:


> If you have an 84 lumber near you, or some other lumber store, you can usually get better wood there, for about 1/2 the price.
> I can't wait to see this beast built!


the Home Depot is unfortunately the most convenient lumber source for many people and unfortunately has the most maliciously twisted, contorted and knotty wood on Planet Earth.


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## CL

hydrophyte said:


> the Home Depot is unfortunately the most convenient lumber source for many people and unfortunately has the most maliciously twisted, contorted and knotty wood on Planet Earth.


LOL! Ain't that the truth.


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## Gatekeeper

O man, I am totally following this thread! *subscribed*


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## Wasserpest

clwatkins10 said:


> If you have an 84 lumber near you, or some other lumber store, you can usually get better wood there, for about 1/2 the price.
> I can't wait to see this beast built!


Thanks Chris, I can't wait either... 

I have several lumber stores around, like "Hayward Lumber", but HD is more convenient. Are you sure about 1/2 the price? I am pretty sure here it is the other way, a 102" 2x4 costs $1.95 in HD, and at the lumber place maybe twice that. Bought from them before, and in the end it is also just wood, prone to twisting whenever possible... 



hydrophyte said:


> the Home Depot is unfortunately the most convenient lumber source for many people and unfortunately has the most maliciously twisted, contorted and knotty wood on Planet Earth.


With some time, you can fish out some decent pieces. Someone told me to buy them, and use them right away to keep twisting to a minimum. On the other hand, I have some 2x4's that I bought quite a while ago and they are still straight. Luck of the draw...


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## CL

That's the way it is here, at least for 1x4s And of course, I'm comparing to Lowes
An 8 ft 1x4 is around $5 at lowes and only $2.80 at 84 lumber (I only buy 8 footers because that's the max I can fit easily in my corolla, I could probably get a 10 foot board in there, but it would have to sit on the dash board.


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## Wasserpest

*Plywood*

With the stand skeleton completed, it is time to add some plywood. I used a circular saw and some twisted 2x4s to cut them to length.










I purchased some cheap plywood for the back and sides, reusing some from my former 100gal stand, and for the front, one nice sheet of oak plywood.










The tank will sit on a 1.5" plywood base. Should be sufficient...
Honey, these are real bulk heads. Exciting, no?  Six for filter inlets/outlets, and one to be able to connect cables and airlines and such from the stand underneath the tank to the area above the tank.










Next I'll need to cut a rectangular hole for the viewing pane, and connect it to the bottom panel. Then glue/screw back and bottom, cut the sides, and add them as well.


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## A Hill

Looks like this will be yet another awesome creation.

My one major problem with plywood tanks is a lot of the time people make them and the viewing pain has a center brace... Please tell me you're getting thick enough glass for one single pain.

I figure you probably are, but it still is the first thing that comes to mind...

-Andrew


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## CL

Did you use a hole saw for those? I assume that they don't make spade bits over 1"


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## Wasserpest

A Hill said:


> Looks like this will be yet another awesome creation.
> 
> My one major problem with plywood tanks is a lot of the time people make them and the viewing pain has a center brace... Please tell me you're getting thick enough glass for one single pain.
> 
> I figure you probably are, but it still is the first thing that comes to mind...
> 
> -Andrew


Viewing pane center brace? Not sure what you mean exactly... There will be one single glass in front, and honestly, I have not seen many tanks with multiple viewing panes, aside from superhugemonster tanks.

For the first plywood tank I built, I used a steel angle across the top in front and kept it completely brace-less for easiest access. With this one, I go for ultimate security, and will use a threaded steel rod that keeps back and front from bowing out. Much better than the fat glass/plastic center brace on the 100gal tank that will be replaced.


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## Wasserpest

clwatkins10 said:


> Did you use a hole saw for those? I assume that they don't make spade bits over 1"


Yep, used a 1.5" hole saw bit. Works better than spade bits, which remove a lot more wood, and therefore need more effort. My hole saw bit is only 1" long, so I started on one side, then flipped the plywood and finished it up from the other side. That way there was also no splintering at all.


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## monkeyruler90

wow, i can't wait till this monster is up and running.


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## A Hill

Wasserpest said:


> Viewing pane center brace? Not sure what you mean exactly... There will be one single glass in front, and honestly, I have not seen many tanks with multiple viewing panes, aside from superhugemonster tanks.
> .



Yes I'm talking about a single front pane of glass a while ago I had done a lot of reading about plywood tanks a lot of them were made by people cutting costs even more by using thinner glass and putting a piece of wood going up the middle of the window, kinda weird. 

Can't wait to see how well yours turns out!

-Andrew


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## lauraleellbp

*sigh* Oh to have a spouse like yours... and a basement... and your skills...

OK, I admit it, I'm totally jealous! :help:


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## idontknow

I loved your last thread....cant wait to see this one turn out.


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## Wasserpest

Thanks guys... I wish we had a basement too, but you are right, I can't complain about the spouse. :smile:

Ran a bit into a snag. The "oak" plywood that I bought for the front doesn't seem right. After cutting out the viewing window, it feels like balsa wood covered with oak veneer. Duh! So I am contemplating after all going to the lumber place and spending another $40 on a heavier sheet of better 7 or 9 ply.


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## @[email protected]

congrats on your enormous DIY. 
i would never have anywhere near that much guts to build my own tank (let alone such a massive one).


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## Consigliere

Looks like a fun project. Can't wait to see how things progress.


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## Hoppy

Wasserpest said:


> Thanks guys... I wish we had a basement too, but you are right, I can't complain about the spouse. :smile:
> 
> Ran a bit into a snag. The "oak" plywood that I bought for the front doesn't seem right. After cutting out the viewing window, it feels like balsa wood covered with oak veneer. Duh! So I am contemplating after all going to the lumber place and spending another $40 on a heavier sheet of better 7 or 9 ply.


Have you considered "Baltic Birch" type plywood? It is made of 100% birch, all plies, and the quality is much higher. If you want an oak outer face, just veneer it with oak veneer. If you can do laminates you can do veneers. It usually comes in sheets that are not 4' x 8' though, since it is a European plywood.


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## Wasserpest

Where do you buy that? Lumber place?

Shows that I am still a beginner. I thought "Oak Plywood" is made out of oak, but apparently it is just a reference to the veneer (which I don't care about at this stage). While the plies are very good, hardly any holes/spaces, it just feels way too light and flexible.


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## Hoppy

There is a hardwoods dealer near me, where I can buy walnut, mahogany, oak, etc., plywood veneered with many different woods, and Baltic or Finnish Birch Plywood. The birch plywood seems to all come from Russia, but it is the best quality plywood I have seen for years. Most of it is in metric sizes, arout 5 feet by 7 feet, as I recall, but they had 4 foot by 8 foot sheets the last time I bought some, about 5 years ago.


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## Regloh

Uuuuuuhhh.. 
We have all waited for this one to start! *giddy*
I can't believe I missed the first few days of this...
Good luck Wasser.


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## Wasserpest

Thanks Reg, glad to have you in this thread. roud:

Well there is some progress. I made up my mind and purchased another sheet of plywood from a lumber place. The guy who cut it must have been hungover from the weekend, and didn't get it straight. Second try, now it is straight, but a 1/16 smaller than I wanted. Okay, no big deal.

This is 7 ply pine plywood, AC exterior grade, after cutting out the window I can compare it to the "oak" sheet I mis-bought. It's not all bad though, I think I can use the wasted viewing window as the front for the stand.

Also, I just picked up the 1/2" Starphire sheet. Man is that sucker heavy! $234 for a nicely beveled 25x65 panel. Well I hope... I haven't measured it actually.

The Sweetwater paint just arrived as well... so I should be pretty set with materials, just need a bunch of time to put it all together. Yesterday I glued the back panels to the stand. Next will be the front to the base, and then the sides.


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## Regloh

Glad to be here 

I already have a question. You had mentioned the you had some moisture/leaking issue with the plywood tank in the garage. Have you figured out what the problem is? Would be great to be able to incorporate the lessons learned from that into the new tank, seeing as that will be placed on the wall-to-wall carpet in the living (or was it dining) room 

Are you planing on using fiber glass layup this time? Or are you not using rocks again 

Some of these may already have been answered in your references threads. I didn't go back and re-read them all. I apologize for any repeat questions.


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## Wasserpest

I think the problems are caused by the little compartments that I built to hide filtration and such. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but made it very difficult to apply epoxy. I think I might have missed some corners. Perhaps when draining the tank I will be able to tell for sure.

This tank will be simpler... just a box. Plus covering it with another layer of epoxy paint should seal it securely.

I am not going to use fiberglass. The Coat-It epoxy is really too syrupy to allow laying down the glass mats, and yes, I will avoid large rocks. Thinking of getting some dead Manzanita tree from the mountains.

Planning to do two layers of Coat-It (or maybe just one thick one) and then two or so layers of Sweetwater epoxy paint.


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## Wasserpest

Trying to keep track of costs, since that is always a point of interest.










Prices include shipping and taxes where applicable. Note that I am re-using some materials and many accessories from my discontinued 100gal tank, and I have some things on hand that are not mentioned here. Also, this isn't final, just what I have sunk into this so far.

Other than that - the viewing panel is connected, need to cut the sides and glue/screw them, and double them up with more plywood. Then add some 2x2's to reinforce the corners, sand the whole thing, and then it is almost time to get started with some epoxy. Hoping to get to that point sometimes this coming Sunday.


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## Wasserpest

*Manzanita*

Went off to the mountains last weekend for some Manzanita hunting!










Found some nice pieces. Manzanitas grow very unique, each branch comes out in a different angle. It is a very hard wood, breaking it with your hands can lead to the sharp branches stabbing through skin. Ouch.










Still haven't had time to ponder the best wood arrangement. Also need to find a way to anchor them. Some suggested slate, just afraid to break it when drilling. I wonder if regular tiles could work as a base too.


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## CL

Wasserpest said:


> Still haven't had time to ponder the best wood arrangement. Also need to find a way to anchor them. Some suggested slate, just afraid to break it when drilling. I wonder if regular tiles could work as a base too.


Great manzy! I really like what you found. I just ordered some from Tom Barr and he says to use a ceramic bit and drill through the slate, then use stainless steel screws. I asked him if you could use slate tiles and he said yes. I'll be anchoring mine in this way right after I get it.


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## Wasserpest

This was one of the very few times when I wished I'd own a little pickup. Stuffing that branchy wood into the trunk of a Jetta wasn't that much fun. :icon_roll

I am pounding away on the tank construction. There just need to be more hours in a day. :tongue:

Here's another view from the bottom:










And here is the tank back being glued to the rest of the box:


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## sewingalot

Cute toes! I used a regular 1/8" drill bit and simply didn't push down. I let the drill do the work for me.

How did you manage to fit the wood in the Jetta? My husband can't seem to fit anything in his Jetta wider than 2 feet.


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## Wasserpest

Thanks! :wink: I figured my size 10 toes give a perspective of the dimensions.

You'd faint if you would see what I have carried in (and on ) my Jetta. The trunk is relatively large, so I slowly fiddled all the branches in there. Was a bear to get out without breaking them...

I can fit up to 3 ft wide sheets of wood, up to 10ft long, or longer with the trunk half-open. The worst was a pallet of EasyBoard... don't ask. Poor car.


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## sewingalot

Haha. He would probably faint if I told him. He hates to put a box of nails in his Jetta. :hihi:


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## Wasserpest

*The Front*

To make the front panel bow-proof, I sandwiched a 1 1/4" metal angle between the front and the sides.










I will use epoxy to glue the metal & wood. Behind the angle I will glue/screw another 2x2. (not there yet)










A threaded rod across the center will further prevent any bowing. Here is a picture of the 1/2" glass. Looking forward to silicone... but it will be a while longer. I am planning to glue/screw the front panel tonight, and tomorrow and Sunday start sanding, more corner supports, and epoxy.


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## Coltonorr

THIS ROCKS!!! 
Sign me up!
That Manzanita is going to look awesome!
Oh and you have large toes!:hihi:


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## funkyfish

After reading your previous DIY progect I am very excited to see how this will turn out  
Subscribed


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## Wasserpest

Thanks for the comments guys! :smile:










It has been (and still is) a good weekend, got lots of stuff done. Front is attached, corners are almost finished, and I might even apply some epoxy today.










Lifting that thing up alone was a killer... it is now heavy enough to require two ppl to stand it up or lay it down.


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## Hoppy

Why are you making the tank and stand one single unit? It would certainly be a lot easier to move around if it were separate units. And, it looks like the end panels of the tank continue on up above the tank another 4 feet or so. Why? One last question: how will you move this into position when it is ready to do so?


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## Wasserpest

Good questions Hoppy...

Being a plywood tank, I believe it will be stronger and more resistant to bowing, contortion, etc if the tank and stand are not only connected, but actually the same pieces. Simpler too... Rather than dealing with a "stand plywood sheet" and a "tank plywood sheet" there are just single panels for the sides and back. The tank bottom is the stand ceiling. If I had two pieces, yes, easier to move around, but I would have to line up holes and so on.

The plywood continues all 96in to the top. Like I mentioned earlier, this is supposed to be a single piece of furniture, and I will extend it all the way to the ceiling. That way it will look more "built in", and if I put doors both on the stand and above the aquarium, the actual depth will be hidden. Just thinking it might look interesting, with regular bookshelves around 12", but in this case it contains a 30" tank. I will create shelves and such above the tank to store office things out of sight... some folders, a printer, etc.

My theory for moving it into place (without glass!!!) is to attach a pair of 2x4's to one of the sides, and slide the whole thing from the garage to the inside of the house. Yes, I measured my doors and they are 36x80, so the 30x70 box should fit through... I hope. :icon_eek:

Once inside, I will need to stand it up, slide it into place, mark where the overflow to the adjacent garage will go, then slide it forward, lay it down, silicone the glass, let it dry, ask a bunch of neighbors to help lifting it vertical again, and then slide it into place.

Well... that's the theory.


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## Craigthor

I saw WEB CAM when you go to move this in the house and stand it back up again.


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## Gatekeeper

So this piece will fit floor to ceiling and your building it outside? Are you going to be able to stand it up inside??


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## Hoppy

gmccreedy said:


> So this piece will fit floor to ceiling and your building it outside? Are you going to be able to stand it up inside??


I shouldn't laugh, but I have done that more than once. :icon_redf It took a few years before I could figure out any way to do a floor to ceiling anything, from walls to cabinets. And, I still get chills whenever I think I am going to try it again. I have built a number of closets, and 90% of them presented just that type of problem.


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## Wasserpest

Yep, my house seems to be a bit taller than 96in. :icon_roll

The last pieces will obviously be added when it is in its place.


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## Wasserpest

I'd like to introduce you to my three trusty helpers...










I call them Glue, Screw, and Brew. :icon_wink


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## Craigthor

But I see more than 3 how many brew you had?

You forgot chisel, tapey and brushy.


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## Wasserpest

Ah, but those guys were just visiting.

In the meantime, the first layer of epoxy is applied. With temps in the 90's, this dries much faster compared to the tank I built in chilly January.


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## Coltonorr

Holy....!!! I can't wait to see this thing filled and stuffed with plants!
Oh and brew's go well with any DIY project!


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## Wasserpest

I absolutely agree! On both accounts. roud:

Here is another quick shot of a corner. Corners are important. They keep that thing from blowing apart.










Almost time for the next layer: Sweetwater Epoxy Paint. I am a bit worried about the brain-cell-killing odors of that. Hoping for a day with a slight breeze through the garage to keep me alive and well.


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## speedie408

subscribed! I gotta see this thing grow. Nice job WP.


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## airborne_r6

Wasserpest said:


> Almost time for the next layer: Sweetwater Epoxy Paint. I am a bit worried about the brain-cell-killing odors of that. Hoping for a day with a slight breeze through the garage to keep me alive and well.


Open the garage door a little and put a box fan in a window. It will move enough air to keep the majority of your brain cells.


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## Wasserpest

That's a good idea. I live in an often breezy area, so it shouldn't be a problem, but adding a few strategically placed fans sounds good anyway.

In the meantime, I started to assemble some of the (simple) plumbing. Basically just two canister filters plumbed through the bottom, a couple of Koralias if needed. Passive overflow to the adjacent garage. Water change via tapwater line from garage, controlled via programmable timer. To make the plumbing invisible in the tank, I spray painted it black:










Pondering right now how to dose macros: via Water Pump or via Test Tube... The tubes' advantage is simplicity. No additional equipment needed (no timer or water pump). I might still go with the Water Pump method, it's easier to adjust, very reliable, and exact. The tubes tend to accumulate a bit of debris/biofilm over time, which might affect the dosage.


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## sewingalot

Do you coat the holes for the plumbing with epoxy as well? Or do you leave them unpainted all together?


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## Wasserpest

I will give them a coat of epoxy paint. The Coat-It epoxy is very thick stuff, and I don't want to reduce the diameter of the bulkhead holes. I want a bit of wiggle room in there so the flange/gasket can sit really flat on the tank bottom.

Besides, if the bulkheads (especially the gaskets) work as designed, there should not be any moisture going that way.

I am going to sand the surface around the bulkhead holes a bit more to make sure there are no bumps that might lead to leaks.


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## Down_Shift

Such an intense diy


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## Wasserpest

Intense is an understatement. I am constantly close to death. Three weekends ago, working in shorts because of the heat, I walked by a sheet of plywood and injected myself with a one inch splinter which broke off underneath the skin.

Had to cut open my leg to be able to locate, grab, and pull out the splinter using my trusty Leatherman multitool pliers (tweezers were too weak). Bloody mess. :hihi:

Well after some initial swelling it was good for about 10 days, then started to swell like a balloon. Several days later the swelling disappeared, to be replaced by a crimson red outline of the area. Extremely itchy too...

I spare you the photos... they are a bit distracting.


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## CL

Did you celebrate with a steak that you hunted with your bare hands and a cold one?


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## Wasserpest

I learned... not to work in shorts. :fish: Nothing to celebrate. 

A great way to get buy-in from your significant other for all sorts of projects is to get them involved. Not just "Honey can you hold this piece of wood while the glue dries" but getting help in designing the project, so they own a part of it too.










Finding the best combo of Manzanita branches and putting them together and perfecting the layout is a good example.

I learned that by discussing ideas with your partner things become much easier. For example, I was very foggy about how to make this thing look decent. Until we figured out that we could paint the whole thing with a black primer, and add some dark brown finish over it. Really made my life easier, not to mention if it looks like *^%$ nobody will say a word.


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## CL

Haha! So was the paint to get a visual of what it would look like wet?


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## Wasserpest

It's called Epoxy  Shiny finish, especially visible with flash.

Now here is the good stuff. Sweetwater Epoxy Paint.










Expensive and unhealthy... but hopefully it does what it is advertised for: keep water in tanks.


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## Hoppy

Until that last sentence I figured some of this on my ice cream would be nice:confused1: Then again, it does look a lot like my typical coffee.


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## Wasserpest

Yeah, it's yummy. Just don't touch it or breath it.










With a fan blowing from behind, I could turn around and breath less toxic air. A little plastic cup used as a scoop pretty much dissolved in short time. Really very different from the other (Coat-It) epoxy that I used before this.










You can see the difference... The first layer is fairly easy. Between 4 and 24 hours later the second coat can be applied. It's a bit more challenging, difficult to see whether the black glossy epoxy is dry or wet.

I probably lost a couple of brain cells. So what were we talking about again?


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## dantra

Dude that's so sick roud:
Can't wait to see it plumbed and full of water.


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## Wasserpest

Hehe, thanks guys.

Looks like I am done painting for now.










Time to work on little things... electrical, plumbing, painting other surfaces, etc. Looking at prefab doors @HD over the weekend, got a sticker shock... My little contribution to jumpstart this economy. :hihi:


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## Regloh

No updates for 8 days? Are you on vacation Wasser?


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## Wasserpest

Thanks for the nudge! :smile: No vacations, and I am working on the tank, but there hasn't been much picture-worthy progress.

I'll post some updated shots later today.


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## Wasserpest

With all the epoxy work done, I painted the rest of the furniture with the darkest primer available. Built from a mixture of different very plywoods and two-by's, that should give it some consistency for the final paint job.










It already looks a lot better just with the primer applied, unfortunately not water proof enough for weekly splashing.










Well, the time has come. I need to move my desk out of my office, planning to do that later today. And if nothing else comes up, I am planning to move the beast inside Saturday.

I ordered the doors (8 @ $50 ea :confused1 and they should be delivered in about 3 or 4 weeks.

Well. What do you think?


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## legomaniac89

I know it's been said before, but you are the ultimate DIY'er! This is going to be so awesome when it's finished roud:


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## Gatekeeper

You are moving inside then doing the glass?


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## CL

gmccreedy said:


> You are moving inside then doing the glass?


Maybe because it will be so heavy, and the flexing plywood box might mess up the seams, but dang, it's gonna burn your eyes.


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## Hoppy

I don't think there will be any fiberglass used on this, if that is what you were referring to. It is just a waterproof epoxy finish.

So, the first time this tank will see water is after it is in the house, installed in place, plumbed in, with a $2000 carpet on the floor, and all of the priceless antique furniture gathered around? Hmmm. Do you have a good lawyer lined up just in case it leaks, and the wife......uh....well, decides not to shoot you, just evict you? I would love to have that kind of confidence.


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## CL

I was referring to the silicone fumes.


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## Gatekeeper

Hoppy said:


> So, the first time this tank will see water is after it is in the house, installed in place, plumbed in, with a $2000 carpet on the floor, and all of the priceless antique furniture gathered around? Hmmm. Do you have a good lawyer lined up just in case it leaks, and the wife......uh....well, decides not to shoot you, just evict you? I would love to have that kind of confidence.


Thats the direction I was going...


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## Wasserpest

legomaniac89 said:


> I know it's been said before, but you are the ultimate DIY'er! This is going to be so awesome when it's finished roud:



Thanks Lego! Comments like yours make it worth the time to post all of this. 



clwatkins10 said:


> Maybe because it will be so heavy, and the flexing plywood box might mess up the seams, but dang, it's gonna burn your eyes.


Next time you pick up a 6'x2'x0.5" sheet of glass you will know why I am waiting to silicone the glass until this is inside. The risk of scratching the glass while pulling everything inside is considerable.

A seam of silicone that will be covered up by glass within two or so minutes will not cause much harm. Yes, I will open the window and close the door while it is drying.



Hoppy said:


> So, the first time this tank will see water is after it is in the house, installed in place, plumbed in, with a $2000 carpet on the floor, and all of the priceless antique furniture gathered around? Hmmm. Do you have a good lawyer lined up just in case it leaks, and the wife......uh....well, decides not to shoot you, just evict you? I would love to have that kind of confidence.


Wow Hoppy, like at my last undertaking, your comments aren't encouraging at all. I must say you are definitely outdoing yourself here. I appreciate your concerns, but your sense of humor is a bit over the top. Or perhaps the relation to my wife does not include lawyers or handguns. Sorry if that is the case in yours.

Besides that, if you recall, the purpose of my previous garage plywood tank was to get some experience/confidence with this sort of things. This tank is built much sturdier, with better materials and additional safety margins.

I don't own priceless antiques (besides that desk that I built out of a wooden door) and the carpet is scheduled to go in a month or so anyway. If something should happen, I am confident wife will help mopping up.



gmccreedy said:


> You are moving inside then doing the glass?


Yeah, like I said before....


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## sewingalot

Saturday came and went and no word from you. Did you get it moved in the house? That looks sick with the paint on the outside. So...more pictures!


----------



## Wasserpest

Hey Sara, yes, Saturday morning we moved the contraption inside. Rolling it on broomsticks, and pushing it up the entrance using a pair of 2x4's worked really well. I took a lot of photos during the process, might post some later this week.


----------



## Hoppy

My hat is off to you! You can pull off the most difficult jobs, and make them look like just routine stuff. Between you and essabee I have to wonder if there is anything you guys can't do and do well. I'm someone who gets a cold sweat everytime I do a first filling of even a commercial tank, especially if I have done any plumbing on it. Nothing could ever persuade me to to trust my work the way you can.

Sorry about ribbing you so much, but the above is the context of it.


----------



## Wasserpest

*Inside Job*

Ready to roll:










The box on the lower right will house the ballasts, with a fan cooling them and blowing hot air outside in Summer, inside in Winter.

Little helpers:










Looks like it did fit:










Scientific strength testing:










Passed.


----------



## sewingalot

That is an awesome picture! Your kids are adorable! That is huge! I didn't realize how much until you took pictures with people. Great job in moving it. Any damage done to the walls or finish? I moved a 20 gallon stand last week and ripped off the molding.....


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## Wasserpest

Thanks for your comments! :bounce: Overall, not much interest in plywood tanks nowadays.

No real damages caused during the move. Later on I caused some minor scratches and chips in the plaster while lifting and turning the cabinet.

In the meantime the glass has been siliconed inside. That turned out a bit of a bumblefart, because I underestimated the amount of silicone needed. With the glass panel suspended just a bit above the plywood frame, there was not much room to work and it didn't go really well. After applying the silicone, I used a car jack to lift the cabinet, which seated the glass. I will need to add some more silicone around it and from the outside, we'll see how that goes.

Here is a drawing of the canopy that I am about to build:










It's basically an open box. The star thingies are (LED) fans that will create some air movement at night to reduce evaporation. Not sure how this will work out.


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## hydrophyte

Nice work! What a huge monster of a tank. I want to do one of these someday.

How will the fans reduce evaporation?


----------



## brion0

Plywood tanks are neat. Threads like this get the gears turning in my head. I'll be keeping an eye on this one.


----------



## Tex Gal

That is really big!! I think I wouldn't be able to stand not seeing into the sides! I want more, not less viewing area.

Love your sweet kids. How adorable!


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## agutt

I cant wait to see this thing when its up and running! very very impressed!


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks for your comments! Any feedback is most welcome.



hydrophyte said:


> Nice work! What a huge monster of a tank. I want to do one of these someday.
> 
> How will the fans reduce evaporation?


Ah, I used the wrong term. Meant to say condensation, not evaporation. The canopy is basically airtight, and with the lights off, there will be a lot of condensation. My theory is that some air movement will reduce that condensation... Could be wrong.

I have used acrylic sheets on other canopies, but I'd like to try it without this time. For one, to save money, also trying to maximize light by removing any barrier between lamps and water.

We'll see how that turns out. If not, I'll build a different canopy. Sheet of plywood and a couple of 1x3's, it's almost fun.



brion0 said:


> Plywood tanks are neat. Threads like this get the gears turning in my head. I'll be keeping an eye on this one.


Be my guest! roud:

If you like working with wood, it's really a rewarding project.



Tex Gal said:


> That is really big!! I think I wouldn't be able to stand not seeing into the sides! I want more, not less viewing area.
> 
> Love your sweet kids. How adorable!


Thanks TG! Good point about not being able to see the sides. The tank goes into a recessed area, so the sides are not visible anyway... in my case.


----------



## Wasserpest

agutt said:


> I cant wait to see this thing when its up and running! very very impressed!


I can't wait either. Looking forward to get wet...

In the meantime, I fixed the silicone, and it's almost time to put the cabinet upright, perhaps for the last time. With the glass in place this is some serious work. I am thinking about attaching some 2x4's to the sides, then start to lift it with car jacks, and then call the neighbors in. :icon_bigg

The doors have arrived too, paint is here, everything except for a lot of time to work on it.


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## jazzlvr123

cant wait to see this finished!


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## sewingalot

Just a few scratches in the drywall? That is impressive. I have a question about your lighting draft. What does "pink" mean? Is this the type of bulb color or are you abbreviating something fancy? How did the rest of the application of the silicone go? I am trying to use silicone on a piece of slate and am making a mess of it. Are you using a caulking gun? Sorry for the questions, I am fascinated by this. It's like a reverse boat.


----------



## Wasserpest

_Just a few scratches in the drywall? That is impressive. _

If you plan everything well, and then take your time, you can minimize damages. :angel:

_I have a question about your lighting draft. What does "pink" mean? Is this the type of bulb color or are you abbreviating something fancy? _

Partially Inductive Nuclear... nevermind. :icon_mrgr I like to mix some pink/purple plant grow bulbs into my lighting setup. Most tanks lit with 6500/10000K bulbs look very green, due to the majority of green plants. Pink (magenta) is on the opposite of the light wheel and therefore reduces some of the green hue. This also makes anything red (fish, plants, flourite) "pop". Too much will turn things into muddy brown.

Years back the first pink bulb available in T5 was the Aquamedic Planta, which had a very short usable lifespan unfortunately. There are more choices now, some are very pink, like the ColorMax, others more purple, like the Powerglo.

_How did the rest of the application of the silicone go? I am trying to use silicone on a piece of slate and am making a mess of it. Are you using a caulking gun? _

Yes, I am using a caulking gun. The 10oz cartridges are so much more cost effective if you need quite a bit. You'll need to clean the slate well to get silicone to stick to it.

I finished silicone-ing the inside part, still need to do some reworking from the outside. I used a little plastic syringe to fill some of the nooks and crannies, that worked quite well. I need to stand up the cabinet which is not going to be fun this time, with the glass in place.

_Sorry for the questions, I am fascinated by this. It's like a reverse boat. _

Don't be! Without questions and feedback there isn't much fun in documenting this.


----------



## sewingalot

_Partially Inductive Nuclear... _

I was cracking up over this one. I seriously believed you. I wonder if they will make t5hos with a pink spectrum. I did notice the lighting not to be as pleasing as the regular bulbs, now I know why.

Cleaning the slate? I never do the easy method. There was dried up moss stuck to it. No wonder I am having issues.... What brand of silicone are you using? There was like 5 different brands when I was at Lowes this morning.


----------



## Ashok

This at a whole another level. Great work! Waiting to see how it turns out.


----------



## hydrophyte

You know this project gives me an idea. There is an extremely popular thread started last fall on DendroBoard.com that describes a "Constructing a European type Vivarium Step by Step". Here is the link...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/32289-constructing-euopean-type-vivarium-step-step.html

The design features something like a baffle along the the bottom front edge which allows for air to rise through convection along the front pane of glass, thus reducing condensation for an unobscured view of the display. Building this enclosure with the side panels and floor in plywood could simplify its construction.


----------



## Wasserpest

sewingalot said:


> I wonder if they will make t5hos with a pink spectrum. I did notice the lighting not to be as pleasing as the regular bulbs, now I know why.


They do... The Hagen Powerglo for ex is T5HO, and on sale at the Drs right now too. It's more of a purple though. Personally I like it more than the really pink ones.



sewingalot said:


> Cleaning the slate? I never do the easy method. There was dried up moss stuck to it. No wonder I am having issues.... What brand of silicone are you using? There was like 5 different brands when I was at Lowes this morning.


You could try a pack of 5 min epoxy if you don't get it to stick. I am using GE Silicone I Window and Door flavor. I believe Silicone II contains mildewcide (BioSeal) which shouldn't be used in fish tanks. Just read the label, if it says "mildew proof" don't use it in your tank.

I realized that I should have used black silicone. The clear stuff is annoyingly visible between the epoxy-black frame and the glass. Oh well, next time. :tongue:



Ashok said:


> This at a whole another level. Great work! Waiting to see how it turns out.


Thanks! Me too.

Last night I played with bulkheads. They are really made for absolutely flat glass panes. With the plywood and epoxy, I might have created little invisible hills in some spots, which will prevent a seal. Found one in at least one spot, and decided to just silicone the bulkhead in. Silicone sticks really well to the glossy Sweetwater epoxy paint. I hope it will stick to the plastic bulk head flange too... many years.

Right now working on the canopy. It's fun, but I wish it would progress faster. Family is getting tired of my garage life.


----------



## Wasserpest

Plugging away at the tank build... need to upload some more photos to document the process.

Started to assemble the canopy and made some changes already. Instead of 8 bulbs (4x 4ft + 4x 2ft) I am changing it to 6x 4ft. Same wattage, but less bulbs, less endcaps, and a bit more space between the bulbs and T5 reflectors.










I ordered some more reflectors from reefgeek, they should arrive today, and I hope to progress further with the canopy.


----------



## DevinWolfe

I've been following this build since day 1 and I have to finally comment...

I cannot believe how big that tank is. I thought a 55G or a 75G was a big tank to fill. I can't imagine how much foliage you're going to have in a tank that size.

Awesome job!!


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks Devin! It has always been my dream to own a large tank, where sword plants can stretch out without getting squished on the glass or float along the surface.


----------



## Hoppy

Wasserpest said:


> Plugging away at the tank build... need to upload some more photos to document the process.
> 
> Started to assemble the canopy and made some changes already. Instead of 8 bulbs (4x 4ft + 4x 2ft) I am changing it to 6x 4ft. Same wattage, but less bulbs, less endcaps, and a bit more space between the bulbs and T5 reflectors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered some more reflectors from reefgeek, they should arrive today, and I hope to progress further with the canopy.


Are you going to have multiple ballasts, so you can run the bulbs in banks of 2, for example? I think I recall that you earlier said that was your intention.


----------



## Wasserpest

Yes, I will use two Fulham WH7 ballasts, one of them driving bulbs 1,4, and 5, and the second bulbs 2, 3 and 6.

There will be half an hour in the morning and evening when only one half of the bulbs are lit. One half of the lights on from 10am to 10pm, the other from 10:30 to 9:30pm. Something like that. :smile:


----------



## S&KGray

Wasserpest said:


> Yes, I will use two Fulham WH7 ballasts, one of them driving bulbs 1,4, and 5, and the second bulbs 2, 3 and 6.
> 
> There will be half an hour in the morning and evening when only one half of the bulbs are lit. One half of the lights on from 10am to 10pm, the other from 10:30 to 9:30pm. Something like that. :smile:


Cool, how about first set from 10am to 9:30pm and second set from 10:30am to 10pm. Then all the lamps will on for 11.5 hours each day(instead of 3 on for 12 hrs/day and 3 on for 11 hrs/day), aging somewhat equally. Or maybe its just OCD on my part... :icon_mrgr


----------



## Wasserpest

That's another option. There are two reasons why I think it's not as good:

1) With only 3 bulbs, there could be one combination that looks better. I can't tell right now, it will depend on the final layout, but the tank might look better with bulbs 1, 4, and 5, and very unevenly lit with 2, 3 and 6. Then I'd rather have a morning and evening transitional period with the first bulb combo.

2) With the lights, there are also cooling fans and CO2 switched on and off. Cooling fans might need to run the entire time, so if I do the overlap that you suggested that would be harder to do. Of course I could put them on a different timer, or start them with the second set of lights, assuming that the first half an hour they will not overheat... For CO2, it might actually be beneficial to switch it on with the first set of bulbs (to have it "ramp up" before the full blast), and then switch it off half an hour early.

Many options, and nothing to worry right now. It's fun to play with those things... once the tank is set up and running.


----------



## Regloh

You could put the fans on a relay circuit that keeps them on with either set of lights. I've seen you work with relays, you can figure that out 

On the CO2 I agree. I would put it on the first set of lights or on a separate timer for flexibility...


----------



## Wasserpest

Regloh said:


> You could put the fans on a relay circuit that keeps them on with either set of lights. I've seen you work with relays, you can figure that out
> 
> On the CO2 I agree. I would put it on the first set of lights or on a separate timer for flexibility...


I could, but if I can KISS I'd rather...

Well, it's about time to catch up with some pics. After all, this the photo album section.

This is back from when I siliconed the glass into the frame. Both the cabinet and the glass were really too heavy to comfortably lift and move, and I didn't want to risk dropping the glass with those big rubber sucker things. 










So I set up a car jack to lift the cabinet up to the glass pane, which was supported on some 2x4's. Worked pretty well, except that it was difficult to apply the silicone between glass and frame. Later on I used a syringe to rework some of the spots that were not filled completely, that went very well.


----------



## jargonchipmunk

an aquarium project that doesn't involve a car jack isn't even a project IMHO.


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## CL

Neat. I never thought of using a syringe to apply silicone! Good idea


----------



## Wasserpest

jargonchipmunk said:


> an aquarium project that doesn't involve a car jack isn't even a project IMHO.


:hihi:



CL said:


> Neat. I never thought of using a syringe to apply silicone! Good idea


Yeah, I was surprised how well it worked. Much more precise to apply to small spots and crevices, compared to the unwieldy caulk gun.


----------



## CL

Wasserpest said:


> caulk gun.


Dude I wan't a chalk gun! That would be cool. lol. seriously, shooting peices of chalk with pressurized air would be a blast. :icon_smil


----------



## Wasserpest

Huh? :wink:

Anyway, while the silicone was drying, I got busy with the canopy.










Basically a sheet of plywood with some 1x3's around it.










I cut a little groove into the bottom of the 1x3's.










Then painted the inside with epoxy paint, to make it water proof. Black isn't my favorite canopy color, so I covered the whole thing with Ultra Pure White.










And glued some silicone air hose into the groove... this should make the canopy fairly tight, to prevent too much humidity escaping. The hole is the air inlet to cool the bulbs. I am going to put some sponge in there to keep most dust and critters out. In the center, there is a larger hole from which fans are going to pull out hot air.


----------



## Wasserpest

Painting the cabinet doors. This isn't exactly fine woodworking, but I hope the end result will still be decent.










First a coat of dark primer, then some brown semigloss paint over it.










Continuing to work on the furniture... almost ready for painting and doors. I temporarily tested the fit of the canopy. Fits.


----------



## whickerda

Wasser,

I bow to your DIY awesomeness... About 10 years ago (can't remember if it was 99 or 2000 LOL) I built a 300 gal plywood tank and sealed it with 6 coats of sweetwater epoxy. It and its stand were not finished out nearly as nice as yours but... I was into reef tanks back then and I loaded it with live rock and corals. That paint is expensive but it's worth every penny. That tank is still up and running. A friend of mine is using it as a frag growout tank.


----------



## Wasserpest

That's great to hear! The Sweetwater stuff does feel very solid.

The canopy is now almost finished, just need to finalize the electrical connections and glue down all the wires.










Felt almost Christmas-sy, sitting in front of the fireplace, spreading LED garlands throughout the canopy. Should be a nice moonlight.


----------



## Mjc20

Wasserpest said:


> Still haven't had time to ponder the best wood arrangement. Also need to find a way to anchor them. Some suggested slate, just afraid to break it when drilling. I wonder if regular tiles could work as a base too.


I may be a bit late on this, but ive heard of some people using a hard plastic base buried in the substrate as an anchor.


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## Wasserpest

That's a good idea... might be difficult to move it around if desired. And if you bump the wood by accident, it would be difficult to put the base back down if the substrate goes underneath it.

The Manzanita wood is soaking in my pond... I think it will sink well, and then I might be able to anchor it somehow. Maybe by pushing it a bit into the substrate, weight it down with some rocks. Lock it underneath the tank rim.

I put some screws into the wood to be able to anchor things, perhaps one of them is in a lucky spot and I can zip-tie the wood to it.

Things are progressing very well so far. We moved the tank to its (hopefully) final resting place. Painted it, waiting for it to dry before attaching the doors. In the meantime I am working on the plumbing. Filters are pretty much connected, as well as the overflow to the garage, and the canopy and ballast exhaust.

Wow, it might even get wet tomorrow. :fish1: Need to see how the bulkheads (seven on the bottom, one close to the top) seal.


----------



## hydrophyte

I have had good luck with these plastic bases for anchoring manzanita...










I cut these from 1/4" gray PVC sheet then attached them to the sawn ends of the branches with stainless steel screws, nylon nuts & bolts and/or zip ties. They are easy to put together and I like them because they are easy to move around in the aquarium. Some stand up straight having the base just covered with sand, but for other pieces that lean more it is necessary to weigh the base down with a few stones.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks for posting this, makes it perfectly clear.

Well, today was the day for a first water test! And not completely unexpected, one of the bulkheads leaked. These bulkheads are best for absolutely flat surfaces, like glass of course. Even though I tried, I did not get the epoxy layers completely even, especially close to the corners.

So I took the bulkhead out, removed the gasket, and siliconed it back in. I noticed that the silicone sticks very well to both the bulkhead plastic, and the epoxy paint.

I added some more silicone around the other bulkheads, so even if they are not entirely sealing, it should prevent leaks. Now to wait 24 hours for the fresh silicone to dry.

Time to attach doors, and put some finishing touches on the stand. I am going to install lights inside the stand to make it easier to find things, adjust CO2, and maintain filters.


----------



## whickerda

omg! I can't wait to see this tank filled, stocked and lit up!


----------



## Wasserpest

*The aliens have landed...*

... and they came in peace.


----------



## Wasserpest

Made some good progress over the weekend. Besides discovering the leaking bulkhead, I attached some doors, finalized the canopy, and worked on the "stand".










Over the last years I learned that a well lit stand makes life much easier. At least I won't have to dive down there with a flashlight between my teeth, drooling all over the place. :drool:


----------



## Wasserpest

Since yesterday there is about an inch of water in the tank. No more leaks. :smile:

I might get brave tonight and fill it up more... still need to connect the filters before doing that.


----------



## Hoppy

How do you get water in and out of the tank - for water changes, testing, etc.? I recall that you had that covered, but I don't recall just how.


----------



## Wasserpest

Back in the second post I have some links, one of them to the water change discussion started during the planning stages.

I am going to draw up something and post it here that will explain it in detail.


----------



## Wasserpest

*Water changes*

The FILL side is relatively simple:

A saddle valve taps into the water line, connects to a common lawn irrigation valve/solenoid which is controlled by an irrigation computer ("Wasser Controller") and feeds via a T into the canister filter outlet.

I am planning to do small daily water changes of 5-10 gal. This isn't a lot considering the size of the tank, but on the other hand, I am understocking the tank bioload-wise, and dose relatively little fertilizer (not even close to EI levels). Also, no water treatment planned at this point, our water contains just small levels of chlorine.

You can see some of this at the "Cheap water change" link in my signature.

The DRAIN side is a bit more involved:










I call it the "High Tech Bucket". Basically as tap water fills the tank, it overflows to the garage into a bucket. As the bucket fills, float switch 1 closes and energizes the pump via the delay timer. Water level goes down, float switch opens, and the pump runs a certain time to basically empty the bucket. The water is pumped into another aquarium, from there overflows into a holding tank, and that one overflows outside to water some Camellias.

There is a second float switch which, in case of a malfunction of the pump, opens up as the water raises further in the bucket, and turns off the fill solenoid.


Well that's how I imagine it to work... I'll post some pictures as I assemble all that stuff.


----------



## unirdna

*ahem*....<subscribed> 

What a great alternative to an in-wall tank! As with all the others, I'm in awe of your DIYability.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks Ted... Looking over the images, it looks very funky. :fish: 

Hopefully soon I'll be able to post some pics that do it better justice. The brown color, and the doors covering up everything, give it a pretty decent impression. My next big project will be to remove the carpet and replace it with hardwood flooring, that will help to improve the overall appearance of the room as well.


----------



## sewingalot

Where did you put the ballasts? This is the type of hood I want to build, actually - build it for me and ship it to...... This is an amazing diy. I live precariously through you.  By the way, that one shot of the lights remind me of "Close Encounters of a Third Kind."


----------



## Wasserpest

If you look at the "full furniture shot" next to the last canopy picture, you can see the box in the center above the aquarium. There is a blue fan adapter that connects a 120mm fan to the box, and a bunch of cables that I have not tucked away yet. On the right side there is a "T" which allows the hot air to either be expelled into the garage, or into the room.

I need to take the Workhorse ballast from my garage plywood tank and put it into the box, and find some other means to light the garage tank.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Looking pretty sweet WP!


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## jazzlvr123

Phil Edwards said:


> Looking pretty sweet WP!


agreed hehe!


----------



## sewingalot

Ah, so that is the ballast. I had know idea what that was. I want to see this guy with water! How close are you to doing so?


----------



## Wasserpest

Here is a shot of the refill setup:










The white hose comes from a notoriously leaky saddle valve, through the wall, featuring a "T" to add water to my other tank (or have a drink if needed), then loops into the sprinkler valve, and from there "tees" into the filter outflow.

The black thing on the irrigation valve is the solenoid, the wires will be connected to the controller as well as a float valve in the high-tech bucket that interrupts the water flow if something should happen with the drain side.










On the other side of the stand, a Unimax filter is plumbed through the bottom (x2). The CO2 will be injected into one of the outlets. I have to remember that the stand ceiling is the tank bottom, especially when drilling. :hihi:


----------



## DevinWolfe

This gets better and better every day! That is truly awesome.

I couldn't imagine having the skills you have. I barely pulled off my own spray bar and Rex-style reactor. There is no way I could manage to BUILD an entire tank with 2x4s and plywood, that is just phenominal.


----------



## Wasserpest

sewingalot said:


> Ah, so that is the ballast. I had know idea what that was. I want to see this guy with water! How close are you to doing so?


Funny you should ask... :hihi:










As the water level rises, so does my inner tension. I'd love to discover any leaks now, before the substrate, plants and fishies are in there.

The amount of water is incredible. I had it filled to about half as much as you see in this image, and drained it into a bath tub. When I came back after a little while, the tub was full! I totally underestimated what fits into this box.


----------



## DevinWolfe

Wow, that is going to be awesome once it fills, hope you have SCUBA gear.


----------



## sewingalot

Awesome. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. :thumbsup:


----------



## Wasserpest

DevinWolfe said:


> This gets better and better every day! That is truly awesome.
> 
> I couldn't imagine having the skills you have. I barely pulled off my own spray bar and Rex-style reactor. There is no way I could manage to BUILD an entire tank with 2x4s and plywood, that is just phenominal.


Thanks Devin... I am not really skilled, just like to make things. But this is how I started out not so long ago, with spray bars and inline reactors.



DevinWolfe said:


> Wow, that is going to be awesome once it fills, hope you have SCUBA gear.


Long arms maybe... I dimensioned the tank so I can scrape the front glass (if necessary) without having to dive in. I can reach the bottom in the front, to plant things further back I'll just have to use a chair and lean over the surface. We'll see how that goes with the canopy in place.



sewingalot said:


> Awesome. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. :thumbsup:


Thanks! I'll probably try "half full" later today. It is a bit scary.


----------



## sewingalot

You'll be fine. Did you get it half filled?


----------



## Wasserpest

<biting nails>

Measuring from the bottom, it is about half full. Almost half up on the glass. I'll keep filling.


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## DevinWolfe

I have my finger crossed for you, too! I'm sure you have already checked, but I sure hope it's perfectly level.


----------



## BigCountry

Good Luck!!!!


----------



## hamstermann

Excuse me while I go pick up my jaw and mop up the drool. That is GORGEOUS. Have you ever thought about doing this kind of thing professionally? Maybe the time investment would be too great, but that really is awesome.


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## Wasserpest

Well, it is half full (half empty?) and everything around it is dry and looks good.



DevinWolfe said:


> I have my finger crossed for you, too! I'm sure you have already checked, but I sure hope it's perfectly level.


It is not level. Thanks to whoever did the slab, there is nothing level in this house. The tank tilts forward (water line in front is higher than in the back) and a bit off from the left to the right. It would worry me if the tank was all glass, but being a wooden box, I think it can deal with a bit of unevenness. 



slintzen said:


> Good Luck!!!!


Thanks, I need it. 



hamstermann said:


> Excuse me while I go pick up my jaw and mop up the drool. That is GORGEOUS. Have you ever thought about doing this kind of thing professionally? Maybe the time investment would be too great, but that really is awesome.


Thanks! No, I am quite happy with my day job. You are right, time-wise it is not feasible to do something like this full time, unless your last name is Senske?


----------



## hydrophyte

Nice. Can't wait to see this monster with water in it.


----------



## sewingalot

Yeah, no leaks!!! What's really sad is most of my tanks are not level in the house. That I do live dangerously by. My 55 is off 1/8 of an inch level - 1/2 plumb and has been for years. Don't recommend you purposely do it, but a little of on the plywood and I'll say you'll be fine.


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## Wasserpest

Placing large glass tanks on a not completely level base is very scary. Glass doesn't flex that well.

Last night I dreamed that the front glass ballooned out like crazy.  But checking in the morning, it was still dry underneath, and all the water in there. So I'll keep filling.

Gotta admire the canister filter fittings/connectors. They spin around easily, and still don't leak. Yet. :icon_mrgr

I was pondering earthquake safety. Not the house-leveling, stand-tipping millennium one, but the smaller shakes. With cover glasses, water stays in the tank. Without them, and how I designed the canopy, water will slosh around the bulbs, endcaps, and electrical connections. The oversized 9 outlet powerstrip that I will use has a main switch, so if I am around and quick minded it can be all turned off quickly.

I also want to add another connection to an inverter/battery in the garage, to be used to keep filters running in case of power outages.

Tank is almost 2/3 full now. :icon_conf


----------



## Hoppy

You should have notified CNN about this, so we could all follow the suspenseful story non-stop! I have had my share of bad dreams about tank failures, so I'm not surprised that you would, with this size tank. Logic tells you that it is the height of the tank that matters, not the volume of water, but dreams don't do logic. I have to say, I have no doubt that this will work out very well.


----------



## jargonchipmunk

two weeks til we close on the house and I have a garage and basement to use... two weeks lol. Fantastic job! I keep cringing with each new update, hoping not to see *tank burst update* lol. Fingers crossed!


----------



## CFlux

Wasserpest said:


> Placing large glass tanks on a not completely level base is very scary. Glass doesn't flex that well.
> 
> Last night I dreamed that the front glass ballooned out like crazy.  But checking in the morning, it was still dry underneath, and all the water in there. So I'll keep filling.
> 
> Gotta admire the canister filter fittings/connectors. They spin around easily, and still don't leak. Yet. :icon_mrgr
> 
> I was pondering earthquake safety. Not the house-leveling, stand-tipping millennium one, but the smaller shakes. With cover glasses, water stays in the tank. Without them, and how I designed the canopy, water will slosh around the bulbs, endcaps, and electrical connections. The oversized 9 outlet powerstrip that I will use has a main switch, so if I am around and quick minded it can be all turned off quickly.
> 
> I also want to add another connection to an inverter/battery in the garage, to be used to keep filters running in case of power outages.
> 
> Tank is almost 2/3 full now. :icon_conf


There are sensors you can get that will cut off electricity to an outlet if they sense water. you could try to place them somewhere strategic that if the water sloshes it cuts the power. May provide the extra safety in the case of a smaller earthquake.


----------



## Wasserpest

jargonchipmunk said:


> two weeks til we close on the house and I have a garage and basement to use... two weeks lol. Fantastic job! I keep cringing with each new update, hoping not to see *tank burst update* lol. Fingers crossed!


Thanks J, good luck with the new home! Surely exciting times for you. It's great when you can drill a bunch of holes into walls without having to worry about your landlord.



CFlux said:


> There are sensors you can get that will cut off electricity to an outlet if they sense water. you could try to place them somewhere strategic that if the water sloshes it cuts the power. May provide the extra safety in the case of a smaller earthquake.


I will look into that, thanks for the suggestion. Besides issues with electricity, bulbs could shatter too, although this doesn't seem to be the norm.

Since this is the photo album, just a funky picture from last night:










As you get closer to the tank, with the nose almost touching the glass, the back starts to curve and sort of wrap around you. Must be some optics law for it, but it looks weird, like IMAX.
And even though it looks like the room is under water, it's all inside the tank, about 75% full.










I will probably fill it up later today, and then leave it like that for two weeks or so. Hopefully that will show any leaks that might develop.

And then it is time to drain, finalize some of the plumbing, and start with the fun stuff: substrate, wood, and eventually plants. :fish:


----------



## malaybiswas

The see through is cool. The carpet still looks clean. You must have been real careful so far


----------



## Wasserpest

*The tank is full!* roud:

And I am still alive and dry. Although I must admit, a bit nervous standing in front of that monster. When checking inside the stand, I can't help but think about what's on top of me.

It seems like left to right it is completely level after all. I guess my level is off a bit, or the tank settled somewhat.


----------



## Wasserpest

malaybiswas said:


> The see through is cool. The carpet still looks clean. You must have been real careful so far


BTW it is just a reflection... the back is covered with pitch black epoxy.

The carpet is going into the trash pretty soon, so it is actually not in best shape. I can't wait to see the tank all set up, and some wood flooring in front of it.


----------



## prototyp3

Beautiful beast you got there. Everyone needs a monster tank. Nice work on it all.


----------



## sewingalot

Glad to see the water. It looks a lot different with the h2o in there, like a fish tank.  I know the feeling of nervousness around leaking tanks. I had a 55 gallon full of fish spring a leak on me a few years back. And did I learn my lesson on leveling? I wish I could say yes. I am planning on fixing this with the new fish tank I am buying this winter. Glad to hear the tank is now level!!! That is fantastic.


----------



## DevinWolfe

So awesome to see it fill. Must be a great feeling seeing all your hard work pay off in something this beautiful.


----------



## BigCountry

Any updates or new pics of the filled tank? Or are you now in the middle of the draining and content additions?


----------



## Wasserpest

No, like I mentioned, I am going to let it sit full for about two weeks. I know, I know, suspense is killin everyone. But I do not want to find any leaks a few days after I have it all planted.

So no new pics at the moment. Still working on the tank setup though. 

Connected the drain side, need to test the pump timing at some point, but there is no rush. 

I moved the "Wasser Controller" from the garage tank to this one, and added the wires for the planned nightly water change. See link in my sig if you want to know all about that thing. I implemented Daves design improvements, the large powerstrip which houses the relays, and a cat5 connection between the irrigation controller and the powerstrip.

Drilled another hole and pulled some cables. I have a car battery and an inverter in the garage that will keep filters running if there is a power outage. All I need to do is replug the filters, and switch on the inverter. I have a trickle charger that I use once a week or so to top off the (80Ah) battery. Need to test how many hours it can support three filters.

I want to put some Koralia circulation pumps inside the tank. I won't need them in the beginning, but later, when plant growth becomes denser, I am sure the two canisters will not be enough for good circulation.

Going to use my usual water pump dosing for macros, and a peristaltic pump for micros (Flourish).

Halloween :icon_eek: weekend is when I plan to drain the tank and perhaps start to mess around with substrates. I have everything I need, including patience. :fish:


----------



## jazzlvr123

Wasserpest said:


> I have everything I need, including patience. :fish:



that's a big one, patience is a virtue ! congrats on the success of the tank so far


----------



## Wasserpest

The time has almost come. :bounce:

After fixing the first few bulkhead-related leaks, things are now mainly dry under the stand, with ~250gal of water still in the tank.

I tested filter maintenance on the Unimax, and it was not a smooth one. With the tubing being relatively short, there is hardly any wiggle room to turn and remove the quick disconnect on top of the beast. It is hard on the bulkheads, and the inline CO2 connection is not solid enough to withstand much pulling and pushing.

The filter is also extremely heavy when full (about 4 gallons of water, plus whatever pumps and housing add). So I decided to add a "T" with a ball valve and a connection for a water hose, with the intention to use that as a backflush mechanism.

I can easily plug the in's and out's in the tank with Sched 40 caps. So to backflush the filter, I would connect a garden hose, move the inlet strainers to the outlets, plug the inlets, and then open the ball valve. That should flush out some of the crud that accumulates in the sponges, with a reverse flow from the outlets, through the filter media, and out through the hose.

Hopefully this will relieve me from having to remove the filter for cleaning. The "T" will also help to drain the tank quickly if this should ever be necessary. 

Next steps will be


drain the water
use it to prepare substrate (washing Kitty Litter and Fluorite)
add the already mentioned "T" to the Unimax plumbing
silicone a few more things inside the tank that could use some silicone
drill a few more holes (and epoxy paint them) for powerhead cables and such
finish up the plumbing for the Filstar canister (add some 45deg angles)
silicone a separator in the front for an open area
finish up the stand interior incl a drawer cabinet for "stuff"
finalize the ballast housing and add the second Fulham ballast
After that it is time to think about aquascaping, how to add substrates and manzanita, and then it is already planting time.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Not to throw this at you, and it looks wonderful the way you have it, but did you think of trimming this out a bit more?

Some casing around the edges to the wall, a nice piece of crown along the top and perhaps some trim to hide the joint between the tank frame and bottom (where you see the long seam).

Just ideas. Something you can certainly add later.


----------



## Wasserpest

Definitely Mr Troll Killer. 

Wifey wants some crown molding to top it off. And we also agree about the trim to hide the imperfections between the stand and the tank. I am pushing both out a bit, cause I am currently learning how to use a trim router... There will be lots of trims and moldings to be done when we replace the carpet. I am also waiting to attach the smaller doors in the middle before figuring out how to place the trim around the aquarium front.

I have not really thought about adding something to hide the gap between the wall and the tank/stand. 

Keep in mind that it is lit extremely weird-ly in these recent pictures. There will be no light between the top of the tank and the compartments above, and there will of course be a shelf on the bottom and top of the compartments. They are not there yet because I need to get both the manzanita and the canopy through the top down in/on the tank. There isn't enough space to fit either through the front.

Once everything is set up, the tank itself is located in a pretty dark corner, so much of the imperfections will not be as visible as they are now in those last photos.

Thanks for the ideas!


----------



## sewingalot

Definitely yes to the trim molding! Your wife has great taste. By the way,I am patiently waiting on my hands for Halloween weekend.


----------



## DevinWolfe

I have an idea to make removing the filter easier. You could use a shelf track/roller set and make a small shelf just wide enough to hold the filter (about 8" or so). This way you could slide the disconnected filter to the front edge of the stand to make it easier to grab and lift.

I did this with a "litter tray" for a very large chinchilla cage that I built. It makes life much easier.

Something kinda like this, but a set of tracks that is JUST barely long enough.

http://www.homedepot.com/Kitchen-St...&style=A&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10


----------



## Wasserpest

Devin, yes I thought about that exactly. Built something similar for my TV... 

One problem is that the filter is so tall that there is little clearing between its top and the top of the stand. So adding another sliding shelf would lift it up further, and reduce the space between filter top and ceiling.

The other thing... It's not so much the pulling out that bothers me. It's the fact that you have to twist the quick disconnect about 45 degrees, and lift it out of the filter (which requires quite a bit of space). That stresses the bulkheads, and having one of them break with the full tank on top and me making a  face. Stuff for nightmares.

I could increase the length of the filter hoses a bit for more flexibility. I'll see how the backflush thing goes.


----------



## Wasserpest

*Substrate issue*

Ran into a bit of a snag...

If you have looked at some of my other tanks, you know my favorite substrate: Special Kitty. :hihi:

This wasn't going to be different, and I already had 50lbs of that stuff lined up and ready to go. Just out of habit, I opened a bag, poured some into a cup, and filled it up with water. There was a bit of a lemonade smell to it, which was already a warning sign. After a couple of days I measured the EC and it was off the chart.

While I could rinse it really well, I don't want to take the risk... so I will have to sink some more cash into more Flourite, and also use the substrate that is currently in my garage tank. Problem with that is that it currently houses fish and plants, and I am not sure how to remove the substrate without inconveniencing the poor creatures too much. Need to think about that a bit more, now that I have time while waiting for the Flourite to arrive.


----------



## sewingalot

How did you know the lemonade smell would cause a problem? I am curious about this.


----------



## Wasserpest

I remembered that there was hardly any smell, maybe a bit earthy. The different smell just told me that it wasn't the same stuff that I got previously.

That's the thing with Kitteh litter... you can't really count on it. I got lucky the last times around, and not this time. Worth the risk though... it's 10x cheaper than the otherwise very comparable Flourite.

I thought about the whole substrate setup a bit more, and decided to tear down the garage plywood tank and use the kitty litter I have in there. That batch worked well, and since I have to do some repairs on the tank anyway I can use that substrate in the big tank as well.

So I got started... moved plants and fish to other tanks, drained the garage tank, and still working on catching the last 100 Cherry shrimp. Started with the first substrate layer: Peat, enriched with Jobes Ferns&Palms fertilizer sticks.

You should have seen the Sword plants I pulled out of the other tank. Once they reach a couple of those fertilizer sticks, they take off like crazy. I pulled out one that was too big to use again. It had so many roots that with it I took out the entire substrate, kitty litter, peat and sticks in a ~foot diameter around its center. It was a mess.

Tomorrow morning I am going to wash the Kitty litter from the garage tank and keep building up the substrate. After the KL comes a mix of KL and Flourite from my former 100gal tank, then top off with Flourite. If things go well, I might be happily planting tomorrow afternoon. :bounce:


----------



## Phil Edwards

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:


----------



## Hoppy

Phil Edwards said:


> :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:


roud: What he said! roud:


----------



## dantimdad

I sure wish I had seen this thread before you ordered doors! ameridoor.com would have been about half the price for paint grade doors. 

I have built a few plywood tanks and always use sweetwater epoxy...you won't be sorry. It's fantastic stuff.

dantimdad


----------



## Wasserpest

dantimdad said:


> I sure wish I had seen this thread before you ordered doors! ameridoor.com would have been about half the price for paint grade doors.


Yep, that could have saved a bunch of green. I need to check them out after the fact. Do they come with hardware (hidden hinges)? I did check out Rockler and other online door sources and they were not cheaper, or did not come with the hinges.




dantimdad said:


> I have built a few plywood tanks and always use sweetwater epoxy...you won't be sorry. It's fantastic stuff.
> 
> dantimdad


I totally agree. It is expensive, and the smell is horrible, but it seems like it will last a long time.

Well, here is an update:

Starting Friday, until last night, I worked on the new tank. Finished up plumbing etc. Washed substrate, relocated fish and plants from the garage plywood tank, drained it, saved as many Cherry shrimp as possible, washed more Kitty Litter. Built up substrate in the new tank, started to fill it, and plant it. Added the manzanita, and the canopy. It went all very well.

Yes I did take pictures of the process, but too burned out to pull them off the camera and mess with them. So you'll have to be patient now. 

Still need to finish up planting and filling it. And taking pix of the result. :fish:


----------



## whickerda

Heck Yeah! Can't wait to see the photos!


----------



## dantimdad

You can get hinges from them, but, I always get them from Lowe's because they so much cheaper on hardware.

I am glad you are doing so well with this project. I did like you and went the cheap route on my first woody. It worked for 5 years then slowly began seeping from rock abrading the finish. That is why I switched to sweetwater.

Good luck and keep the pictures coming!

dantimdad


----------



## sewingalot

What?!? You took pictures and haven't uploaded them yet? Working hard is no excuse! Show me the pictures! Seriously, this is awesome. Is kitty litter as light weight as Turface or does it have more substance like the Flourite? You can't go wrong with Special Kitty!


----------



## Gatekeeper

Man... talk about dramatics on this. 12 pages, probably a few hundred subscribers... talk about stringing us along. You're worse than Season Finales on prime time TV.


----------



## Wasserpest

Patience is a virtue... like someone once said. But a picture is worth 1000 words, said someone else. So here come the pitchers.










Washing substrate. I don't overdo it. Some said they reduced their Flourite volume to half of what it was originally. That is overdoing. I just get rid of the biggest mud. I used the water that needed to be drained from the initial fill-up of the tank. 










I like Flourite... apart from the price. It lasts pretty much indefinitely, so the cost isn't that big of a deal. I mixed some black and normal Flourite to get a darker tone (first two pots... last one is just regular Flourite). All black looks a bit unnatural to me.










Kitty litter... Those who are not familiar with the details, please search for "Special Kitty" and you shall find many discussions about the pro's and con's.


----------



## Wasserpest

gmccreedy said:


> Man... talk about dramatics on this. 12 pages, probably a few hundred subscribers... talk about stringing us along. You're worse than Season Finales on prime time TV.


12 pages??

User CP --> Edit Options --> Show 40 posts per page 

See... only 5 pages.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Wasserpest said:


> 12 pages??
> 
> User CP --> Edit Options --> Show 40 posts per page
> 
> See... only 5 pages.


Ok, then how about this. 

_Man... talk about dramatics on this. *180 posts *, probably a few hundred subscribers... talk about stringing us along. You're worse than Season Finales on prime time TV. _

Pictures of kitty litter in a bucket is just wrong. I might just give you an infraction for being fresh.


----------



## Wasserpest

gmccreedy said:


> _Man... talk about dramatics on this. *180 posts *, probably a few hundred subscribers... talk about stringing us along. You're worse than Season Finales on prime time TV. _


That's really nothing. You should see the 3 million post journal thread by CL, all before he even has a tank! :wink:



gmccreedy said:


> Pictures of kitty litter in a bucket is just wrong. I might just give you an infraction for being fresh.


You just totally flunked your patience-is-virtue test. :icon_sad:

Okay, so back to the pitchers. After washing and preparing the substrate, I started with a nice fat layer of peat.










This is somewhat like adding soil, but totally different. Peat has not much in terms of nutrients, but can bind them well. It is also full of humic acids which plant roots seem to like. 










To battle the lack of nutrients, I added a couple of Jobes "Ferns and Palms" sticks. Hopefully enough for two or so years of fertile substrate.










I pushed them all the way down, and then covered them well with my fancy ADA replica tool.


----------



## CL

Dang! That's a lot of fert tabs! Haha, you're going to have some explosive growth.
I really like that mix of fluorite. Very nice color.
IMO.


gmccreedy said:


> Man... talk about dramatics on this. 12 pages, probably a few hundred subscribers... talk about stringing us along. You're worse than Season Finales on prime time TV.


Nowhere near as bad as mine with 500 posts or so before I got the display tank  That one really is 12 pages.


----------



## Gatekeeper

CL said:


> Dang! That's a lot of fert tabs! Haha, you're going to have some explosive growth.
> I really like that mix of fluorite. Very nice color.
> IMO.
> Nowhere near as bad as mine with 500 posts or so before I got the display tank  That one really is 12 pages.


I actually think you need to start a journal for when you actually set the tank up. I am already lost on your journal.


----------



## sewingalot

gmccreedy said:


> Ok, then how about this.
> 
> _Man... talk about dramatics on this. *180 posts *, probably a few hundred subscribers... talk about stringing us along. You're worse than Season Finales on prime time TV. _
> 
> Pictures of kitty litter in a bucket is just wrong. I might just give you an infraction for being fresh.


OMG! Yes, I just used OMG! You two are cracking me up! Wasser - nice pictures of the used kitty litter.


----------



## CL

gmccreedy said:


> I actually think you need to start a journal for when you actually set the tank up. I am already lost on your journal.


Don't worry, I was going to do that anyway.
Do you see that? A mod derailing another mod's thread.
Shame
:icon_mrgr


----------



## Wasserpest

Okay, let's get back to my little tank here. Pitchers. :icon_mrgr










I would like to state that "used" Kitty Litter means used in another aquarium. Not what you might be thinking.

Building up the substrate, I covered the back third with KL from my garage plywood tank.










The middle section was sculpted with regular Flourite, for the front I used my regular/black mix.










So far so good.


----------



## Bmonarch

Man, I am totally with everyone! I can not wait to see this tank fully planted and going! It's going to be amazing! Gives me all these feelings of grandeur, as if someday I'll be able to pull something like this off.


----------



## malaybiswas

Hey...where did you get the peat from? Is it somewhere local to Monterey?


----------



## Wasserpest

Bmonarch said:


> Man, I am totally with everyone! I can not wait to see this tank fully planted and going! It's going to be amazing! Gives me all these feelings of grandeur, as if someday I'll be able to pull something like this off.


Thanks... we are getting there, quickly. roud:



malaybiswas said:


> Hey...where did you get the peat from? Is it somewhere local to Monterey?


I can get it from work. :icon_mrgr The peat itself comes from Canada though.


----------



## jmhart

Wasserpest said:


> 12 pages??
> 
> User CP --> Edit Options --> Show 40 posts per page
> 
> See... only 5 pages.



Wasser, you're a godsend


----------



## Wasserpest

I happened to have some sea sand sitting around and figured I could put it to use. Imagine a white sandy beach with some mangrove and palm trees around...










So I siliconed a plastic divider towards the front, going about 1/3 deep into the tank. It wasn't enough sand to fill it up all the way, but I am just testing right now, and if it turns out nice I'll get some more.

_Sea sand? Won't that make your tank brackish?_
- Nope, I washed it thoroughly.

_Sea sand? Won't that increase hardness?_
- Probably. I picked some that did not contain visible shells, just round pebbles.

_Sea sand? Are you nuts???_
- Ya.


----------



## Wasserpest

Time for some water.










To keep the fogginess down, first I siphon out as much water as possible, then fill the tank very slowly.










Initially I added some heaters to get the temperature up, but honestly, adding some scorching hot water from the tap is much more efficient.

I am not expecting this tank to require any heating. In Winter, the warm air from the ballasts will be directed into the stand, and help to keep temps up. Also I will be turning down the fans that pull out air from the canopy.










Look! First plant. Planting some Wisteria around my fake beach. Really close to the divider I put some pearlweed which hopefully will drape over it and hide it.


----------



## malaybiswas

Really nice. The pearl weed will help keep te barrier between the substrate and the sand so they don't mix up during clean ups.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks M! It could go the other way too... when I have to pull it out when it is overgrown, I might make a mixed mess. I am not sure about the "beach" yet, I'll explain in some future post why.

Planting time...










Planting in Flourite is pure joy. You just stuff the plants in there, and they stay put. Unlike the lighter substrates (like the KL that I am using) where the plants are already floating on the surface before you pull out your hands.










I am using a lot of fast growers, like Hygros, Ambulia, Lagarosiphon, and Lysimachia to get some plant mass to survive the first few algae cycles. Later on the intention is to switch to mostly slower growers like Crypts and Ferns and such, to reduce the need to dive into this pool.










What's that?










The Manzanita looks fantastic under water. I need to remind myself not to cover it up with plants too much.


----------



## dantimdad

Woohoo! Plants!

Looks great. You need to send me a piece of the Manzanita.



Steven


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks! Actually I had to cut about 1 inch off a branch to fit it under the rim. Would you be interested in that piece? :wink:

To use the 30" depth of the stand to its fullest, I built a drawer cabinet that takes up one quarter of the stand. 










Finally, all that stuff that I threw into the stand before is all sorted out and readily available.










Labeling all those baby food containers makes my life so easy now. Before I had to lift up each one and check what was in them. Usually it was the last one I inspected that contained the desired widgets. :icon_mrgr


----------



## Hoppy

I hope you understand how big a thrill this is for the rest of us. It is something most of us could only day dream about doing. And, those drawers - like icing on a German Chocolate cake.:icon_lol:


----------



## Wasserpest

I'd call that "******* Style"  No fine woodworking here. But functional.

This is the first drawer cabinet I built in my life. Made a lot of mistakes. Like when I measured, forgot to take the thickness of the wood into consideration. 

The next one will be better, with less cutting. roud: Roller glides are an entirely new challenge though.










Need to go plant some more plants.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Driftwood is sweet.


----------



## hydrophyte

Now with plants!

You can get some really great stuff going in that vast space in there.

That driftwood has great depth.


----------



## Church

Awesome! I knew checking in on this thread every once in a while would eventually pay off. 

Let the drooling begin... :drool:


----------



## Wasserpest

gmccreedy said:


> Driftwood is sweet.


Agreed. The hunting for it was the best!



hydrophyte said:


> Now with plants!
> 
> You can get some really great stuff going in that vast space in there.
> 
> That driftwood has great depth.


Thanks h. Looking forward to make the best out of the space.



Church said:


> Awesome! I knew checking in on this thread every once in a while would eventually pay off.
> 
> Let the drooling begin... :drool:


Feels like it didn't take that long...

Things are slowly coming together. The water is clearing up. I haven't filled the tank all the way up yet, to make planting a bit easier. I hope I can finish up the planting later today, and then fill it up and test out the surface skimming of the passive overflow. There is a bit of surface scum from the new substrate.

I started adding some fishies... A couple of Endlers, and the first bunch of Otos. And of course some Cherry shrimpers.

Playing around with the background. I have plastic grids where I can attach plants. Did so with some NL Java Ferns. Unfortunately, the grid I have is clear, which is pretty visible in front of the black background. Need to get some black grid. Going to attach some Anubias to the Manzanita branches.

CO2 via the "Atomizer" seems to work fine. I haven't actually measured levels, but I placed on order for an ebay drop checker.

The canopy seems to be good too. With the fan pulling out air at night, there isn't any condensation on the reflectors. I ordered a fan speed controller kit which is supposed to lower the fans when the ballasts and lights are off, and turn them up during the lighting hours.

Still need to finalize the fert auto-dosing (water pump for N+K, peristaltic pump for micros, test tube for P). And play with the water change setup.

And sit and stare another half an hour. :drool:


----------



## tusk

Man, were have I been. NICE work on this second round. Glad to see you're still doing the plywood stuff


----------



## Wasserpest

Yeah... where were you?? :smile: Glad you made it back! How's your corner holding up?


----------



## chonhzilla

Excellent job you did there! Love the wood!


----------



## sewingalot

Oh boy! Plants. I am glad to see them. That beach sand is an interesting thought. I am curious to see your plans on this.


----------



## Wasserpest

With the tank now up and running, I should post a FTS. There is actually one in the "My tanks" link in my sig. But I am going to wait a bit longer to make it a comparison shot. It is amazing how fast things are starting to grow, so it should look interesting.

Regarding the sand... Well. There is an unexpected issue. As you have seen, the sandy area extends about 1/3 into the tank. When standing in front of the tank, looking down, it is there and looks nice. However, as soon as one steps back a bit, due to the glass and water and optics, the sand totally disappears. A few feet from the tank, looking at it from the center, I just see a bit of the black divider. And in FTS's it will not be present. Not expected!

On the other hand, from above it looks nice, and it gives me a little experimenting area to see how plants do without substrate ferts, compared to a very rich substrate. I planted several things into the sand, and we'll see how they thrive (or not). Lagarosiphon, a typical stem plant, seems to not care at all where you stick it. Growing well in the sand.

There are now 7 Otos, 2 Yoyo loaches, a bunch of Endlers, Amano shrimp and many Cherry shrimpses enjoying the tank. Both Otos and Yoyos are very playful, so I assume the water parameters are good.


----------



## henkychif

Thks for such a fascinating thread. I really enjoyed following your progress.


----------



## sewingalot

So, you can't just have a mega beautiful tank, you have to have an experiment going as well? With the ongoing debate of substrates, I am interested to see how this pans out.


----------



## Wasserpest

*Lighting setup*

I'll be sure to update soon on the sandy beach issues. Nice thing is that I can change my mind and just siphon it all out (and replace with Flourite or something else).

Couple of specs of my lighting setup... See earlier in this thread about the canopy construction.

The canopy contains six 4ft T5 bulbs, driven to ~54W each by two Fulham WH7 ballasts. Currently I am running 3 bulbs from 10-5, and the other 3 from 3-10. So 5 hours 160W, 2 hours 320W, 5 hours 160W. I noticed that even with 3 bulbs running (0.64 Watt/gallon, lol) the tank appears to be lit well. That's one of the nice things with larger tanks... the light demand does not increase proportionally with tank volume or surface area. Of course, I have no clue about PAR and such, but for now, it looks like plants are happy and algae are not here yet. I plan on running it low light like this for a couple of weeks, then start to increase the overlap time (all six bulbs lit).










As for bulbs, I like to mix colors, so I am using 6700K, 10000K and pink plant grow bulbs. For 6700K I am running Coralife T5NO (second bulb), OD'd via the ballast to HO wattage. They are a bit yellowish for my taste, so I am switching over to Hagen LifeGlo (first bulb) which look very neutral white to me.

The third and fourth bulb are Coralife ColorMax, again NO bulbs overdriven to HO. That will cut into their lifespan, how much, not sure, seems to be a gamble. I have some NO bulbs running for a few years as HO already, others give up after 4-6 months. Once they burn out, I am switching over to Hagen Power Glo, which looks less pink and more purple. The reason why I like to use these bulbs is that they make the tank look less yellow/green, and any red and dark-green plants "pop". I moved these bulbs all the way to the back now, because the way I had them lit up 3 and 3 it didn't work with them in the middle. By the way, the difference between those two bulbs: #3 is brand new, and during the first few hours of "burn-in" they burn brighter than normal, then they go down to their spec'd level.

Bulbs 5 and 6 are Coralife 10000K NO bulbs. Once they burn out, I am going to replace them with UVL AquaSun bulbs. Never had them before, but for $15ea I'll risk it. Again, the 10000K bulbs will be in the center of the tank. That color temp looks good with darker green and red plants, but washes out light green plants. That's why the foreground is lit up by 6700K bulbs.

If you checked out the canopy, you'll remember that it is covering the tank, but is open towards the water. Without any cover glasses, and the bulbs being very close to the water surface, this should get the maximum light into the tank.

To prevent moisture problems, I added four 120mm fans that spin at half their spec'd voltage, which reduces the humming/howling noise. They keep air moving in the canopy space, reducing the condensation on reflectors, bulbs and electrical connectors.

To cool the canopy, I added an exhaust hole in the center, connected via a vacuum cleaner hose to the garage, where a fan pulls out hot (and humid) air. Without cover glasses, more heat is transferred to the tank. I am going to use a stronger fan to pull more air out, and connect it to a temperature sensing fan controller. That controller will be located in the ballast box. During the day, with the ballasts burning, the fans for ballast and canopy will spin at full power. At night, the fan in the garage will slowly pull out humid air from the canopy, again to reduce condensation.

To round things out, I added a LED (Christmas tree) light chain as a night light. I set it to turn on one hour before and after the main lights. The whole 60 LED chain only uses about 1 Watt, which is pretty amazing, because it still makes everything inside the tank visible.


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## RianS

Would those happen to be TEK reflectors?


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## Wasserpest

Nope. :smile: Mixture of Icecap and AquaIllumination reflectors. Both are very similar.


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## Wasserpest

*Lighting setup issues*

Since I mentioned the canopy, I should also mention that I ran into some issues. One particularly: the temperature in this tank has been on the rise. Even though Winter is coming, and the house temps have been cooler during night time, AND only 3 bulbs are turned on most of the time, the water has slowly warmed up to 82F.

I think that the reason is the open canopy, which leads to the bulbs radiating all of their heat right into the water.

There is a second issue with my lighting setup too. As I pull out hot and humid air into the garage, I am losing this heat. Especially now in Winter, having the 320W of bulbs as an additional heater would be nice.

So... today I am going to buy a sheet of Acrylic or Lexan, and install that via some profiles on the bottom of the canopy. The fans that are now inside the canopy will be moved on top of it and pull out air into the space above the tank. From there I will draw hot air into the garage in Summer, and into the room in Winter (now). Noise won't be that much of an issue: I am running the 12V fans on an adjustable transformer that does 5-6-6.5-7-7.5V. It was a bit expensive, but 6.5V is optimal. Plus the cabinet doors block most of the noise, so the fans will be near in-audible.

I have a bunch of pictures to share, just need to pull them off the camera... probably tomorrow.


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## sewingalot

82 degrees? Wow. Have you thought about turning down the heater while the lights are on until you get a fix for it? Your fixture reminds me of the bulb comparison chart in the Dr. Foster's Smith catalog. :hihi: I love it!


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## jmhart

What are you planning to keep in there? Depending, 82 deg sounds about perfect to me.


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## Wasserpest

82 without heater in Winter time with half the bulbs on is way too much for me. I like to run my tanks around 75 best, of course in some Summer weeks it creeps up a bit further.

Yesterday I didn't buy the acrylic sheet, still need a few days to ponder it.

Haven't thought a lot about stocking yet. Most likely little fishies, not too much variety. White Clouds are a strong contender (who prefer lower temps too). Perhaps some of the Pseudomugils. I want to work out the kinks first, and I am too busy with other things right now to enjoy a fully stocked tank.


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## Wasserpest

Time for more pitchers. 

This is right after planting the first plants on 11/4.










And this is four days later, with the planting mostly complete. Playing around with some background moss walls, need to replace the clear grid with the java ferns with black grid.










Plants started to grow almost immediately, new growth visible here on some ratty Hottonias and Lysimachia. Note how my sandy beach is completely invisible in FTS's.










Ambulia gets the price for fastest grower.










You can see how the originally planted (bronze colored) parts are being replaced by fresh green new growth. Right now it looks much fuller again, hard to keep up with the camera...


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## Wasserpest

The Manzanita wood has lots of little sharp sticks from where I broke off smaller branches. I figured I'd stick some Mini Pellia pillows on them... see how it looks, see how it grows. Mini Pellia grows very slowly for me, so it should be rather low maintenance.


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## dantra

Hey Wasserpest, I'm happy for you! Its great to finally see it planted after all of that work you've done. Looks like its going to turn out _*really*_ nice. roud:


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## vtkid

This is AWESOME! its great to see this coming together.


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## Wasserpest

Thanks for the kind comments! Here some fish pix from the new tank.

The Yoyos are already over 5 years old, and have a lot of fun in their new place.


























Otos zip around every evening, they are fun to watch, and of course extremely helpful in keeping things shiny.


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## hamstermann

Beautiful pictures! How do you get the fish so sharp while having such a low depth of field?


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## Wasserpest

Canon EF 1.8/50 :wink:

Very cheap lens, very good image quality, and the wide aperture makes focusing really easy.

One of my favorite plants, E. x barthii, a stunningly colored and small staying sword:


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## thrak76

Looks great! You have a really nice layout. 
I need to be on the lookout for one of those E. x barthii swords!
Great pics of the -hard to photo- otos!


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## Wasserpest

Thanks Thrak. I realized (too late) that I need to clean the glass BEFORE snapping away. The flash highlights any otherwise invisible dried droplets.

While the lighting and filtering still needs some work, I am pretty happy with my water change system. Actually I look forward to 9:30 every evening when it begins to work. :tongue:

It all starts with an always open saddle valve that taps into the tap water line. From there the water is stopped by an irrigation valve. Every night the timer turns on the valve solenoid for 15 minutes, which equals 5 gallons of fresh water. I am going to increase that amount later on. The fresh water flows via a T into the filter outlet and into the tank.

As the water level rises, water overflows into this elbow:










which goes through the wall into the garage. Via gravity and a 3/4" plastic pipe it flows into the nearby "High Tech Bucket". The HTB contains two float switches and a pump:










As water in the bucket rises, the lower float switch to the right closes a delay timer circuit, which turns on the pump. As long as water changes, the switch is on and the pump runs. Once the water change is done, the water level in the HTB goes down, the flow switch opens the circuit, but the pump keeps running via delay timer for another two or three minutes, and almost empties out the bucket.

Now what happens if the pump doesn't pump? Meet float switch #2. If the water level in the HTB rises further, float switch #2 opens the water change circuit and the irrigation solenoid closes. A bit more water flows, a leak detector starts whistling, and a catastrophe is prevented. :hihi:


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## Hoppy

Is this where you get your inspirations?







:biggrin::hihi::biggrin::hihi::icon_lol::biggrin:


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## Wasserpest

*What I would have done differently*

It's really too early for conclusions, but here is my list for now...

1) Something I didn't realize is how much better black silicone would have looked. I figured clear silicone will take whatever color surrounds it, but that's not the case. The clear silicone channels light somehow, so it is very visible both on the bottom and top of the frame. Using black silicone to seal the overflow bulkhead would have been visually much more pleasing.

2) The open bottom canopy didn't work out. Bulbs so close to the water surface will radiate a lot of their heat, leading to rising water temps, even with efficient T5 bulbs. Adding an acrylic sheet on the bottom, and moving the fans to pull out hot air will take care of this.

3) Pulling hot air out should be great in Summer, but in Winter it is beneficial to circulate the air inside the house, both to not lose the heated air, and to prevent additional cold air to enter the house. So I'll make some adjustments for that.

Other than that, things work as expected. After about two weeks, the water has cleared up completely. There is still a bit of surface scum, but it is just a matter of time that the nightly surface skimming water change wins.

The first algae is starting to appear. I just added the macro dosing water pump setup, as well as the micros. Still need to think about the best way to get CO2 into the tank. The Atomizer is falling apart, and I am not going to use the replacement. Right now I am just bubbling it into the canister filter. Considering a little Hagen Mini Elite setup, or perhaps the proven internal inline reactor. Not sure yet.

And I pruned the first pound of plants. Mostly Ambulias, Hygros and Lagarosiphon. Despite the low-ish light (0.65 W/gal most of the time) all plants are looking good.


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## Wasserpest

*Canopy redo*

So yesterday I re-did the canopy. Routed some openings for the fans, rewired the fans, added a plastic profile to the sides for the acrylic to lay on, cut the acrylic.

Everything went extremely well until the last moment, when I tried to get the acrylic into the canopy. I bent it slightly, but it was too much and it snapped. I almost snapped too.  Well, some tape and superglue will keep it together for now.

Good news is that the temperature is now stable, and I can adjust how hot I want the canopy via a Ranco ETC controller, along with the four fans.
Bad news is that I have to somehow fix the acrylic. Expensive, and it is a pain to take the canopy out (it doesn't fit through the front, have to lift it out through the top).

Anyways... here is the schedule that I have set up right now for the tank. 










I changed the CO2 to start a bit earlier now (9:30) to get levels up before the lights come on.

Plants are looking great so far. Almost time for a new FTS.


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## eyebeatbadgers

What an incredible build! The build design really looks top notch, your experience shows!

What did you end up doing with the bottom hole of the Unimax?


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## Wasserpest

Thanks for your kind words...

I removed the bulb and socket, and used epoxy to close the power cable hole. Hope it will hold.

Not 100% happy with the way it is set up right now. Due to some issues with CO2, I am bubbling it directly into the filter. Works pretty good noise-wise, but it does spit some bubbles. The real issue is going to be maintenance. I'll probably redo the plumbing, using longer pieces of hose, to give it more play to rotate the quick disconnect thing. It is extremely scary to think something might break or disconnect there... just a lot of water above. So far so good.


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## roybot73

Wow. Fantastic, ambitious project!


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## lauraleellbp

Wasserpest said:


> Plants are looking great so far. Almost time for a new FTS.


Time!


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## Wasserpest

lauraleellbp said:


> Time!


Meh...

I had some issues. First with CO2 ("Atomizer" fell apart), then with nutrient dosing (tested dosing rate, and forgot to plug it back into the timer, lol). The issues are corrected now, but resulted in a nice alga explosion.

The other thing is that we are renovating the house, painting, ripping out carpet, etc. I usually go at least once a day and look at the tank, throw in some food, and double-check things. During the last two weeks I haven't had time to do any maintenance, and it shows. It will be like that for another 3 to 4 weeks, then I'll have some more time to dedicate to the tank, and hopefully can make it more presentable than it is at the moment.


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## Wasserpest

Just wanted to give a little update...

Still too busy to dedicate much time to the tank. Hopefully (while others enjoy the holidays) I/we can finish up the flooring project. Only two rooms left with carpet, but adding the trim/molding is a very time consuming thing too.

The tank... is doing much better, thank you. Had a nasty explosion of brown, coarse filamentous alga. Not sure what it was exactly. Some evil hybrid between hair, beard, and staghorn alga, covering up large areas of the substrate and plants. Wifey said it looked scary.



















Except for some on older leaves, this stuff is now almost gone. Fishies and shrimp are cleaning up the dying remains. Got some good looking, short green hair algae on the sides and the driftwood, I'd like to keep it but who knows.

There isn't much livestock yet, just ~8 Otos, 2 African Butterflies, 2 Yoyos, and a bunch of Endlers. Plus some Amanos that I got last week. Yesterday I added 12 White Cloud Minnows, and they seem to be very happy in there, displaying and even laying eggs, after less than a day. I hope they are smart enough to not swim too much in front of the AFB's big mouth.










Just a quick snapshot... Looks hazy due to the pearling and CO2 mist.


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## Marc

*Pump in the bucket*

Hey Wasserpest,

What kind of pump is that in the bucket with the floats? I'm looking for a pump just like that- one that will accept a small line and submersible.

Thanks,

Marc


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## Wasserpest

Hi Marc, the bucket pump that moves water which overflows from this tank to my other garage tank is a ViaAqua 1800. I have got it for several years already, and it is reliable, can handle fairly cruddy conditions (where an AquaClear might not start up reliably) and was obscenely cheap back then.

Since I am here, a quick update. The tank is stabilizing, most of the nasty filamentous algae has disappeared. The Manzanita branches close to the light are covered with various green, staghorn, and other algae, which looks actually not that bad. Endlers are nipping on them most of the time, getting really fat in the process. The White Clouds seem to like it in there, unfortunately there are only 7 (of 12) left. The rest must have disappeared in big Butterfly mouths.

Slowly raising up the nutrient levels. I need to remove more of the hot air above the tank, so I am going to connect an insulated duct via the garage to an unheated room. An inline fan will then move air from where the tank is to the cooler room, idea being that I won't have to heat it. We'll see how that works, if not I'll just vent the hot air into the garage. Once that is completed I am going to increase the time where all lights are on (~320W).


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## FDNY911

How about a full tank shot i would love to see the entire set up from far ... looks sick man!


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## Marc

Wasserpest said:


> Hi Marc, the bucket pump that moves water which overflows from this tank to my other garage tank is a ViaAqua 1800. I have got it for several years already, and it is reliable, can handle fairly cruddy conditions (where an AquaClear might not start up reliably) and was obscenely cheap back then.


Thanks Wasserpest!


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## Wasserpest

Here is another shot from further away. The frontal flash makes it look really bad...










Normally the cabinet is not illuminated like that, so little imperfections are not visible at all. Not quite done with the flooring yet, but almost there.


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## Regloh

What are you talking about... this is awesome!!!


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## tusk

Looks fantastic!


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## sewingalot

This is an amazing diy. I absolutely love the cabinets. How is the algae doing?


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## Wasserpest

Thanks all! The algae is disappearing, every day it looks a bit cleaner. There is a lot on the Manzanita branches, but I like it that way, and the Endlers do too.










I had to remove two of the prominent Sword plants that I had planted in the center of the tank. They were starting to take up the entire middle section of the tank. I haven't done much in terms of "scaping" yet. I need to reduce the variety of plants to improve the visuals.

Considering that I don't have much time dedicated to the tank (yet), things are going well.


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## sewingalot

Did you take out the E. x barthii? The algae does look less agressive, much better in comparison to the last algae shot. Plus, with free endler food, the remains are a bonus at this point. How is the experimental sand doing?


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## Wasserpest

You are keeping track. :wink: Yes, I took out the E. barthii, as well as one of the Kleiner Bar swords, that used to be so cute as babies in my garage tank. That's what a different environment does to you... So now both are back in the 135gal garage tank, where they can spread if they want to.

The sand area has pretty much disappeared. It is being invaded by Dwarf Sags from the left, Lindernia from the center, Marsilea from the right, and all overshadowed by all those Wisterias. Plants don't grow any slower if you put them into a larger tank...

I am not sure if I leave the sand... I might vacuum it out and fill up the area with Flourite. With the loaches etc it is hard to keep the two substrates from mixing anyway.

My delay switch has died, the relay in it doesn't want to switch anymore. Good opportunity to simplify the water change setup. Instead of the delay switch pumping out the bucket, I am just going to place the float switch all the way on the bottom of the bucket, so when water overflows, it will turn on the pump right away. Bad thing is that the switch is only spec'd for up to 24V, so I still need to solder a relay and a little power supply to turn on the pump indirectly via another relay.


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## sewingalot

Of course, I keep up. This is one of those projects you just want to see succeed after all the DIY and planning that was involved. Plus, that E. barthii was a beauty. I can see why you moved it, though. I guess it is safe to say the sand area is just as effective at growing plants as flourite is, then. I would personally leave the sand unless you really felt the need to replace it. The stuff that gets mixed will eventually work its way underneath the flourite surrounding the sand area, right?

Haha, you make that water changing setup sound so simple. I never have been able to grasp the water changing, bulk heads and overflow setups. Basically, plumbing is above my head.


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## Wasserpest

There's still that thought in the back of my head that the sand might raise the hardness of my already hard water. At this time it's not as visually pleasing as I had it imagined. On the other hand, the loaches like to dig around in it, it probably hurts less than digging in the Flourite. So I'll leave it a bit longer.

Yesterday I was enjoying the tank, and saw a baby fish that looked different from the Endler babies that occupy the surface of the tank. It was darker, thinner, and swam differently. It was the first White Cloud minnow. Yes they are very easy to breed, still I felt like Christmas came a second time.

I caught it right away and moved it to my alien tank, where it can enjoy peace, cold water, and lots of tiny copepods.

In case you don't know, baby WC minnows are very peculiar -- they have green glowing eyes and an irredescent stripe along their bodies, not unlike a miniature neon tetra. In the darkness of its new home it looks like a little flashlight.

Would be nice to end up with a large number of WC minnows in the 250.


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## sewingalot

Score on the White Cloud fry! These are one fish I would love to own again if I ever got rid of some of my other fish. Have you tested the water to see if the gh is higher than your other one without the sand? I wonder if your loaches would balk at your removing the sand now that they've been playing in it for a while.


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## jmhart

sewingalot said:


> Score on the White Cloud fry! These are one fish I would love to own again if I ever got rid of some of my other fish. Have you tested the water to see if the gh is higher than your other one without the sand? I wonder if your loaches would balk at your removing the sand now that they've been playing in it for a while.



You might end up with a loach rebellion, and come home one day to find that they've pulled up all the plants. :flick::flick::flick:


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## Wasserpest

sewingalot said:


> Score on the White Cloud fry! These are one fish I would love to own again if I ever got rid of some of my other fish. Have you tested the water to see if the gh is higher than your other one without the sand? I wonder if your loaches would balk at your removing the sand now that they've been playing in it for a while.


I have not (ever) tested the GH of my water. :icon_redf I know it is high, and it is one of those things that my tanks just have to live with. So I don't know if the sand adds anything to it. Hmmmm...



jmhart said:


> You might end up with a loach rebellion, and come home one day to find that they've pulled up all the plants. :flick::flick::flick:


Haha, then I'll send them to the jail tank in the garage. Not that I would be able to catch them... (Just kidding... after 5 years with them they can do whatever they please).


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## Regloh

Wasserpest said:


> Not that I would be able to catch them...


Well, if they in fact had uprooted all the plants, you would stand a fair chance of catching them


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## Wasserpest

Seriously, they are almost impossible to catch. Couple of times when taking down tanks I did pull out all the plants, but with the resulting murky water it was still impossible to get them unless I would drain the tank completely.

Sometimes I am tempted to measure the intelligence of fish based on the difficulty to catch them... Following that logic my Butterfly fishies would lose out big time... I can just lift them out of the tank with my hands. Not fair. 

Anyway, yesterday I spent some time to clean the tank. Now starts the phase where I target particular leaves with algae... a sign that things are cleaning up a lot. 

I had to cut off a ~ 1.5 in row of Marsilea that started to crowd up against the front glass. Probably enough to cover a couple of new tanks with Marsilea. It amazes me how fast that stuff grows, never had it spread like that in any previous tank. I had some other ground-huggers like Lileaopsis, but the clover overran them completely. The little Crypt. willisii are barely hanging on. I might have to rip out the entire foreground because they are just crowding up too much.

Transplanted a puny Crinum calamistratum to the center of the tank... they don't like to be sent to the sidelines. I also ripped out the Ambulias, and most of the Lysimachia. Slowly moving to slower growers.


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## Wasserpest

It has been quite a while since the last update. Been busy with other projects, and not much to talk about anyway...










Things are going well. Plant growth has been tremendous. I needed to rip out a couple of sword already, and I am a bit in a tight spot with those two remaining "Little Bears". One of the reasons why I wanted a huge tank was to keep swords, but these beasts know no limits. The newest leaves are about 20" long. Beautiful for sure, but out of control. Every week I am composting half a bucket full of Wisteria, Lysimachia, Hottonia, Lindernia and Watersprites. I need to pull up the Marsilea and replant it, and I am not looking forward to it.

I cut down on the lighting a bit, now I start at noon with 3 bulbs, all 6 54W bulbs from 1-7, and then until 10 back to 3 bulbs.

I have the macro dosing set up for a month: 10 tsp N, 6 tsp K, 1 tsp P. Still a bit low for this tank, but I hope with the reduced light it's enough. Still change only 5 gal water/day, but there is no smell, the fish seem happy (breed), and changing more would just mean having to add more powders.

Algae has been steadily receding. I clearly remember BBA and Staghorn and such covering up large parts. Now none of them left, just a bit hair alga which is slowly disappearing too.

I added some of my favorite fish: Nannostomus beckfordi. Right now 4 males and one female, need to get some more girls. The White Cloud Minnows chase them once in a while, but I hope as the Pencils gain some weight/size it'll go the other way.

I did vacuum out all the sea sand, and replaced it with Flourite Black. Looks much nicer, I love how the green of the Wisteria contrasts with the black area. Over time the red and black Flourite will mix, but no big deal.


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## !shadow!

Nice nice, well even if they mix l don't think it'll be that much noticeable since alot of the plants already cover up the ground. White clouds are such awesome fish. i'm hoping to get like a school of them in my 48g rimless once it's set-up. Speaking of Marsilea l've never tried it. How does it grow and how do you like it? Besides that looking good


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## S&KGray

Tank is looking very nice!
roud:


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## Wasserpest

Thanks!:icon_bigg

Marsilea is known to be less demanding than other ground covers, so it tends to work well with low tech/med light setups. It's also supposed to be less invasive than say Glosso, but I can't quite confirm that in this tank.

It is overrunning the whole place, and has choked out already a few other plants, like the Lilaeopsis madagascariensis that used to be there somewhere. The willisii Crypts still hang on to their lives.

The Marsilea was a bit affected by BBA and GSA, now that the tank is pretty clean I'll redo the foreground with fresh growth Marsilea. It's just that pulling out a solid layer like this always leads to a horrible dust storm.


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## RipariumGuy

That looks amazing Wasserpest! roud:


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## !shadow!

Ahh gotcha. Thanks for the info.


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## Captivate05

Your tank is beyond beautiful! It's one of the reasons I want to get into this hobby.


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## Hoppy

Beautiful, beautiful tank! I think anyone seeing those photos would be inspired to start a big planted tank. It is what we all have in mind when we start this hobby.

Marsilea is a great ground cover, but I agree that it is very invasive once it gets established. If you try to remove all of it, every little tiny piece that you miss grows as fast as possible to take back the substrate. I still like it, but I was never able to keep it free of BBA. You are doing a great job!


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## Wasserpest

Thanks guys! Yeah that Marsilea, I just pulled everything up and out (see Swap&Shop section), and replanted a few sprigs. Now that the tank is mostly void of algae, I hope the Clover leaves remain fairly clean.

Still pondering what to do with the overgrown Swords. I think I might have to take them out and replace them with a smaller type, like an amazonicus/bleheri. Or a Red Rubin perhaps. Never thought the Kleiner Baer would grow into such monsters.


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## !shadow!

l got a place for those swords. lt's in my 48g rimless


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## Wasserpest

No, really, they were too large. I removed both "Big Bears" by cutting around their base with a sharp knife, then just pulled them up slowly, while vacuuming the area simultaneously. No mess at all.










The plants pretty much reached 30 inchers, and it seemed like they just started to really take off. No sir.










So instead there is now a Red Melon (E. x barthii) taking up the free space. It better behave, the knife is still in reach. :icon_mrgr

I am waiting for a few plants that should come in tomorrow to fill the space even more. In the meantime, another partial shot of the center.










Unbelievable (to me) but it is almost algae free. The last few hair alga holding on to some Mini Pellia will be gone soon, and I can work on some MP driftwood trees. 

I am playing around with HDR (post-processing) and it is starting to yield some good results.


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## !shadow!

can't wait to see the mp trees


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## trag

How is your temperature situation working out? Is it staying cooler now?

My roommate at the time and I built a less ambitious tank about 22 years ago and it was nice until the lights drove the tank temperature about 10F above ambient. I still have the tank and have been pondering doing something similar to your lighting system for it. But I don't have project time yet, so I like to gather others' experiences to add to my ideas. The tank dimensions are 6'L X 2'W X 30"H.










I'll do away with the full hood and leave the top open to begin with, as you've done. We built this thing with a tight fitting top, ten 40 watt T12 lights in the middle and four 75 watt spotlights on the sides (2 per side). Lighting technology was not as nice back then.

The plants loved the light, but after two or three weeks the lighting system drove the temperature too high. 

Anyway, so I've been planning an open T5HO system similar to what you're using now, so it would be great to know if your tank temperature is still staying higher than ambient (room temperature) or if it's about even with ambient now.

I suspect that these plywood tanks retain heat (fail to loose heat) on their sides and back as well as a glass tank would.


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## Wasserpest

Hi there trag, welcome to the Planted Tank and thank you for your well-written post! It's funny, because I was about to post here as well, both to show off with some pictures (will do later) as well as talk a bit about temperature.

In your case, I am not surprised the temps went up with all that wattage! But besides that, you are absolutely right: plywood is a great insulator compared to glass, which is very notable with my tank as well. I haven't had a need for a heater all Winter, and now that things are warming up I seriously have to think about a cooling solution. Regular glass tanks lose a lot of heat when the ambient temps go down, not the case here.

Keep in mind that my tank also has a tight-fitting canopy (not open top) and the 6x 54W bulbs, canisters, and insulating plywood result in about 10F above room temperature just like in your case. As for cooling right now, I have four 120mm computer fans that draw hot air out of the canopy, and then a large fan pushes the hot air from the space above the canopy to another room (or the garage in Summer).

I have also another 120mm fan that pulls out some of the moist/warm air between surface and canopy. Just started to use it and need to see about the effect on temps. I have it set to run whenever the lights are off (so it doesn't pull hot air from the canopy).

That said, once things heat up here my room will reach 80+ degrees, and I will need a different cooling solution for that.

Couple of ideas:

1) Freeze ice blocks. One gallon of ice reduces the tank temperature by about 1F. Seems like a cheap solution, but definitely not very convenient.

2) Water changes. Adding cold water will reduce the temps somewhat, but this will require a lot of water once it warms up. Plus the incoming water is warmer in Summer too so the effect diminishes further.

3) Open up canopy and add some fans for evaporative cooling. This seems possible, but I don't like the resulting light loss and light spill, plus I prefer to keep humidity low in my house to prevent growing mold.

4) Reduce light hours/wattage. This might help a bit too, but growing plants in the dark isn't a good long term solution. Right now I run all 6 bulbs only for 6 hours, and only half of them for the full 10 hours. Cutting it further will also reduce my time to enjoy the tank.

5) Use a cold water reservoir as a heat exchanger. I thought about using one of my unlit tanks that collect water change water for this purpose. However, as Summer pushes temps up in the garage this isn't going to work very well either. 

6) Plumb some pipes with an underground run as a heat exchanger. This has proven to work, however it would need quite a bit of drilling, plumbing, inconvenience (pipes all over the place), and a fairly strong pump. There are also a few technical details that need to be addressed, like water sitting in a pipe and going bad (H2S).

7) Buy a little refrigerator and fit the canister filter into it. Unfortunately, I don't think I have the space inside my stand... I could place it in the garage, and run some tubing through it. Not sure how much this would cost in terms of ongoing energy costs.

8) Go for a chiller. I don't know anything about them and would certainly like to avoid the high initial as well as ongoing costs.

9) One idea that I have been rolling around in my head is to buy some solar panels (say 80W worth) and connect them to a chiller that can handle 12VDC. I don't know if such a thing exists, and something like an Iceprobe would present some serious plumbing challenges with the existing tank.

So... lots of ideas, but nothing really resolved yet.


----------



## trag

Wasserpest said:


> Hi there trag, welcome to the Planted Tank and thank you for your well-written post!


Thank you. I appreciate the kind words. 



> It's funny, because I was about to post here as well, both to show off with some pictures (will do later) as well as talk a bit about temperature.


Well it's that time of year, when temperature becomes more of an issue.



> In your case, I am not surprised the temps went up with all that wattage! But besides that, you are absolutely right: plywood is a great insulator compared to glass, which is very notable with my tank as well.


Yes, we were young and naive. We did not think, even for a moment, about temperature. We both liked keeping live plants and our goal was to cram as much light as possible over the tank.  It was a, "Doh!" and, "Duh!" moment when we noticed how the temperature had risen.



> Keep in mind that my tank also has a tight-fitting canopy (not open top) and the 6x 54W bulbs, canisters, and insulating plywood result in about 10F above room temperature just like in your case.


Ah. I must have missed that as I read the thread. 



> That said, once things heat up here my room will reach 80+ degrees, and I will need a different cooling solution for that.
> 
> Couple of ideas:
> 
> 7) Buy a little refrigerator and fit the canister filter into it. Unfortunately, I don't think I have the space inside my stand... I could place it in the garage, and run some tubing through it. Not sure how much this would cost in terms of ongoing energy costs.
> 
> 8) Go for a chiller. I don't know anything about them and would certainly like to avoid the high initial as well as ongoing costs.
> 
> 9) One idea that I have been rolling around in my head is to buy some solar panels (say 80W worth) and connect them to a chiller that can handle 12VDC. I don't know if such a thing exists, and something like an Iceprobe would present some serious plumbing challenges with the existing tank.


I've looked into chillers over the years. I've seen mixed reports on #7. Some folks claim it works great. Others claim that it's only usable on small, i.e. ~ 20 gallon, tanks. I haven't seen anyone with a large tank to chill claim that it is working well on their tank, so I'm inclined to the "works okay if you have a smaller tank" conclusion.

Number 8 is expensive but I've pretty much concluded that a commercially built unit is probably the cheapest solution if one is going to active cooling. I've looked at the various DIY chiller schemes and the best looking to me are the ones in which you dismount the expansion coil (terminology?) of a refrigeration unit (e.g. mini - fridge, window unit, water fountain) and drop it into a solution of anti-freeze. Rig the refrigeration unit's thermostat to take its reading from the anti-freeze solution. 

Then pipe a line from your tank to a metal coil (stainless for fresh water, titanium for marine) which is also immersed in the anti-freeze. Circulate your tank water through the coil and have a thermostat control the circulation pump.

In theory, this DIY could be a lot cheaper than a $600 - $800 commercially built aquarium chiller. Especially since I've seen window units at the hardware store for well under $200. However, I just know that by the time I got such a thing working I'd probably spend as much as a commercial unit. Particularly troublesome would be the desire to mount a window unit in a window (exhaust the heat outside) and drop the expansion coil down close to the floor for the reservoir. This would almost certainly require lengthening pipes in the cooling fluid loop, which requires depressurizing and refilling it which requires a license now days, with the freon/coolant regulations. I figure one could blow $200 - $300 right there paying a refrigeration guy to lengthen the pipes and refill the coolant loop.

I also looked at #9 after calculating the monthly cost of running a lighting system and a chiller. I did some heat transfer calculations to try and figure what the heat input must be, but I don't remember them any more. It was based on the question of what must the heat input be if the aquarium reaches equilibrium when it is 10F above room temperature.

Anyway, the solar panels never ever ever ever pay for themselves, unless you live somewhere where electricity is $.30 per KWH. The national average is $.12/KWH and that's pretty close to what I pay here.

A roof top solar panel installation costs between $6000 and $9000 installed per 1000 watts of capacity. The typical installation is about 3000 watts of capacity.

A 1000 watt system will net you 100 - 133 KWH per month depending on your latitude and tree cover, etc. That's $12 - $16 per month if you're paying the national average for electricity.

Now, pay off $6000 with $12 - $16 per month.

Smaller panels cost less, but their price per unit capacity is higher. On the other hand, an 80 watt installation as you mentioned wouldn't require professional roof-top installation, so you might save a bit there. Amazon lists one for $385. I don't know if it would push a chiller though. And you would only get 80 watts out of it during ideal sunlight periods.

So, to sum up......

Heat is a pain. I don't really like any of the solutions that involve chillers. Hence, my search to see if anyone with a plywood tank is controlling temperature without a chiller. It still sounds like a suspended light without canopy might do the trick, as long as one is willing to put up with the increased evaporation, and the possibility of jumpers.


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## Wasserpest

Thanks again for your reply, lot's of good information there. I looked into solar energy before, and came to the conclusion that economically speaking, it wasn't ready yet. It would pay itself after 25 years, but I am looking for something closer to 10 years. Prices are coming down, and panels are getting better, so it's just a question of time.

However, we pay for electricity in "Tiers" and I am currently dipping into the 3rd tier which is at 25 cents/kWh. That changes things a bit with regards to how quickly a small setup would pay for itself. 

So I am wondering if something like this driven by this could work. I don't mind the upfront cost if ongoing costs are zero.

I imagine putting some sort of container into that cooler, and connecting the waterline that goes into my tank. During the sunny day, the cooler would be cooling, and the temperature of the water inside would go down. In the evening, water change with cold water to drop the temps. Next morning, water would start to cool down again. This would also greatly simplify plumbing, just need to reconnect the water change hose that taps into the tapwater.

Not sure what the variable output of the panel would do to the cooler motor.

Keep in mind that the insulating quality of plywood works both ways... it also keeps cool water cool. So while it is a large tank, it would need less "BTUs" than a glass tank that size.


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## VincentK

What exactly is a starphire tank?


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## sewingalot

Since I am of no use to you with the technical details, I want to ask have you gotten the plants in yet and can we get an updated picture when you do?


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## trag

Wasserpest said:


> So I am wondering if something like this driven by this could work. I don't mind the upfront cost if ongoing costs are zero.


You would need to calculate your heat transfer requirements. I know the equations for transfer through a solid, but always get bogged down in the glass/plywood-to-air convection part. 

Basically, you want to use one of those "what size aquarium heater do I need?" calculators in reverse. Find the difference between room temperature and the hottest that your aquarium gets. That's when the aquarium is dissipating as much heat through conduction/convection as your equipment is adding.

Apparently this is covered in the Aquarium Thermodynamics chapter of Aquatic Systems Engineering by P.R. Escobal. I found one nice calculator on line, but it only offers glass and acrylic as choices. Still, plywood has a thermal conductivity of .13 and acrylic is .2 (W/mK) so those are pretty close. I can't post a link because I haven't posted here enough, but it was the first link that came up in my Google search on "aquarium heater calculator" and is at kernsanalysis. 

Once you have the watts of cooling you need you can choose a cooling system with sufficient capacity, although you may need to convert from watts to BTU/Hr. 

I doubt that that ice chest provides sufficient cooling. It almost certainly uses a peltier thermo-electric cooling element. Run electricity through it and one side gets cool and the other gets hot. Reverse the polarity and the hot and cold side are reversed. But peltiers are not terribly efficient compared to a compressor. Peltiers manage about 5 - 10% of the ideal, whereas compressor based systems hit 40 - 60%.

Then again....

I entered your tank dimensions in the heater calculator. Used 10F as the temperature difference. Chose acrylic as the material and listed the walls as .8" thick (allowing a bit for epoxy) and it told me just 18 watts as the steady state transfer. That's just 61 BTU/Hr. Not bad. Now, your walls are a little more insulating that acrylic, but the large glass face is less insulating, so it should be within an order of magnitude, probably. If the whole tank were glass the answer would be 64 watts, so I would guess that you need to remove between 18 and 64 watts from your aquarium.

Hmmm. Perhaps that ice chest would work after all...



> Not sure what the variable output of the panel would do to the cooler motor.


That is the one advantage of the Peltier. It doesn't have a motor and probably wouldn't care about the varying power. It will simply cool more or less depending on how much power it is getting. But it would be very inefficient.


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## Digital

Wow that cabinet looks really good, tank is awesome.


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## Wasserpest

@ VincentK - Starphire is a brand of low iron glass. It is clearer than regular float glass, very visible when you look at a sheet from the sides. Regular glass looks green.

@ sewing - I did add a few plants, but they are still small. I took a few images yesterday, just need to pull them off the camera and stick 'em in here, I'll try to do this tomorrow.

@ trag - you are right about the inefficiency. I think I might be better off scratching the whole solar thing and just buy a cheap compressor-driven mini-fridge, put a 5gal water container in it, and run it on a timer/thermostat. I read somewhere that the yearly cost of running one of them is ~$35, so even if that's @ $0.11/kWh it isn't unbearable considering it would only be needed in Summer, and perhaps only half of the time. It would really just make cold water really cold before it goes into the tank. I wonder if anyone has done a setup like this and whether it worked. Seems like it should.

@ IC3D - Thanks! I am not too convinced about the looks of the cabinet, but it is in a dark spot so it doesn't matter too much. The tank turned out very nice indeed, makes me worry because if there are no problems it could be the sign of impending doom.


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## Wasserpest

As promised, an updated FTS -










Already a bit outdated after a day or two. Since all the algae is pretty much gone, now the focus is on some aquascape improvements. I am happy with the right side (I took most of the Flame moss out though). Wife wants me to remove the balansaes, but... I don't think so. Yet. Mini Pellia, Fissidens, Flame Moss and Suesswassertang is starting to grow on the Manzanita, giving it an "alive" look.

Talking about the left half, I am going to remove the distracting Alternanthera from the center of the tank, and move it to the very left side. That will open up the center, to view the NL Java Fern wall towards the back. 

The right side foreground will be covered with Marsilea pretty soon, not sure about the left side yet. There is some 2-leaved pearlweed which is rather maintenance-heavy. I've got dwarf sags there, but they always accumulate other things like mosses, Pellia, and Pearlweed and over time that doesn't look pleasing.


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## S&KGray

I like! roud:


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## sewingalot

I love it, glad to hear the algae is gone. I agree the alternanthera needs moved a bit over it is a bit attention grabbing at the moment.


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## Wasserpest

Like I mentioned earlier, I really like these guys:










I have 6 males and 6 females (I think... it's a big tank) and while the hard water might make it difficult to breed them successfully, they still enjoy their life.

Hey, how about some sparring?  (the minnows usually decline)










Say something?










While it is probably serious business, I can help it... these guys look just too funny with their tiny, but wide open mouths, tumbling towards the surface.










Meanwhile, the False Flying Siamese Algae Fox Eater scrubs the wood...










or, uh, flies?










While the shrimp wonder where all the algae went.


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## sewingalot

Those are very nice pictures. What kind of camera are you using? That one picture looks like two fish involved in a nice conversation.


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## Wasserpest

sewingalot said:


> That one picture looks like two fish involved in a nice conversation.


Fighting words!

I am using my Canon 20D with a Sigma lens and the built-in flash.


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## sewingalot

It's probably about a girl. It's always about them. I think I need your camera......


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## Wasserpest

Don't assume that having a SLR automatically leads to better pictures. I was able to get consistently good images with my previous point and shoot cam. With the larger sensor of a DSLR the depth of field decreases, and it becomes more difficult to get everything in focus. Especially in macro shots like these lil fishies.

On the other hand, focusing is faster, and there is no shutter delay, so that sorta balances things out. I think newer P&S cameras are getting better with that too, but I have no experience with them.


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## !shadow!

is that 4th picture some sort of mating ritual or dance?


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## Wasserpest

That's them boys fighting. They align themselves, and then wiggle against each other while drifting towards the surface. Kinda hard to explain... you'd have to see it.

Someone posted a video of it here.


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## !shadow!

ahh cool vid, for a sec l thought l was going to get rickrolled


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## msnikkistar

Wow, I just stumbled on this journal and I am soooo envious. Your DiY tank is absolutely gorgeous.


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## sewingalot

Wasserpest said:


> Don't assume that having a SLR automatically leads to better pictures. I was able to get consistently good images with my previous point and shoot cam. With the larger sensor of a DSLR the depth of field decreases, and it becomes more difficult to get everything in focus. Especially in macro shots like these lil fishies.
> 
> On the other hand, focusing is faster, and there is no shutter delay, so that sorta balances things out. I think newer P&S cameras are getting better with that too, but I have no experience with them.


My husband actually had to teach me the view finder isn't exactly where the picture is taken and that you have to hold it straight to not get a crooked picture. I think I'll be working on these two hints for the rest of my life. :icon_mrgr Every once and a while I get lucky and get a nice picture out of 300 shots. 

That's why I have platties. They are slower and easier to take pictures of than your streamlined pencils. Not as pretty, but camera hogs.


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## macclellan

Wow, I had no idea Small Bears could get that big! I thought that was a smaller hybrid sword!

LMK if you ever get a baby Crinum calamistratum off of that - I've been looking for one for years!


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## yikesjason

I just got caught up on your tank from the beginning of the year until now. Things are looking great. 

For cooling, I think it was MedicineMan you had done some good work with mini fridges and coiled metal tubing.


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## Wasserpest

macclellan said:


> Wow, I had no idea Small Bears could get that big! I thought that was a smaller hybrid sword!


Almost seems like they can sense the size of a tank! They grew very nicely compact in my 100gal range tanks, but just went nuts in the 250. They definitely like the Jobes in my substrate. Now there is a Red Melon in their place, and I am planning to put one or two Amazon Swords towards the back.

How tall/big do the E. vesuvius get? They seem to be more of a midground plant for a tank this size.



macclellan said:


> LMK if you ever get a baby Crinum calamistratum off of that - I've been looking for one for years!


Will let you know! Got a baby from the one I had in the 36gal tank before. The other two big ones I have planted towards the back, and it seems like they don't appreciate that too much - always want to be in the center!



yikesjason said:


> I just got caught up on your tank from the beginning of the year until now. Things are looking great.
> 
> For cooling, I think it was MedicineMan you had done some good work with mini fridges and coiled metal tubing.


Thanks for taking the time! I remember MM rigged up something for his 260gal tanks. One difference is that he needs a very good solution to cool his tanks in that tropical climate. I really only need something light duty for a couple of months (at the moment temps are still good), and I don't want to spend a lot on it. The freezer and water canister should come in at below $200. Still rolling this around in my head though.


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## macclellan

wasserpest said:


> how tall/big do the e. Vesuvius get? They seem to be more of a midground plant for a tank this size.


~8"


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## luke20037

ive just taken half an hour to read this journal from beginning to end and its absolutly amazing! you have been an insperation!


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## yikesjason

I wonder if you could do something with a mini fridge and used half of it for cooling and half for live foods or even frozen foods, and anything else you want to keep cool for your fish. 

I think you could drill a pair of holes in the top of a mini fridge and run some hose through. You could coil up on the top shelf then run it back out, through a pump and back to the tank. Run the pump on a thermostat and your set. Then you have the bottom shelf and little freezer box for your fish stuff. 

I don't know, just an idea I just had.


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## Wasserpest

Thanks Luke! I am glad you like the journal!

Jason - here are some thoughts on the issue.


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## Wasserpest

Thought I'd add some pictures that I took recently.










With algae becoming a rarity in this tank I focus (my camera!) on the remaining species. Here is some cute hair algae really close to the surface, apparently it enjoys being an inch away from the T5HO bulb. Right underneath some brown wobbly knobbly algae that I have never seen before. I think it is way cool! If I can keep it, I should start selling it and get rich quick.










The C. willisii is doing very well. I like this undemanding ground cover plant, except when it becomes too thick and I have to remove and replant it, which is usually causing a mess.. At least it doesn't happen that often, I can sell some to ease the pain. Towards the background (which is really only the center of the tank), Macs wonderful E. vesuvius starts to fill in.










Mini Pellia is growing along the Manzanita branches, very nice. Some Christmas moss too, which needs to be removed once in a while since it grows too much. In the background towards the lower left you can (out of focus) see another branch with some Fissidens and Riccia (darn weed!) which looks great as well. 'xcuse the bubble streaks, I need to turn off that Hydor Elite before taking pix.


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## chris.rivera3

Is this all crypt wilisi??? or another crypt as well???




Wasserpest said:


> /QUOTE]


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## CL

Great pictures, wasserpest! The mini pellia and fissidens look great. I love the look of those crypts, too.


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## Wasserpest

chris.rivera3 said:


> Is this all crypt wilisi??? or another crypt as well???


Just willisii or lucens or whatever you want to call it. Crypts are pretty variable from one tank to the next. In this tank, they show this variable color, not sure if there is some nutrient missing, or a virus involved, or if it is normal. The young leaves come out green, and then turn brown (NOT dead!), starting from the outside. Perhaps if I double up on the NO3 they'd stay green? 



CL said:


> Great pictures, wasserpest! The mini pellia and fissidens look great. I love the look of those crypts, too.


Thanks C!


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## CL

Do you still dose EI on this tank? (Did you ever? Lol. I can't remember) I'm thinking about adding more fert tabs to my tank so it will be more forgiving on dosing the water column.


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## Wasserpest

Dose EI? Nope, I dose nutrients! :wink: That's what I did even before EI (or PPS, etc) became famous.

I think this was described earlier in this thread, but it's getting a bit lengthy now, so I'll cover it again.

For macros, I have a MiniJet 606 waterpump pumping fertilizer solution every morning for one minute. Solution in the 1 gallon container lasts pretty much exactly one month.

The gallon of solution contains 10 tsp KNO3, 6 tsp K2SO4, and 1 tsp KH2PO4. I don't think the EXACT quantities and ratios are that important, as long as there is something for plants to chew on.

I use an EC meter (commonly used in horticulture) to determine how much of those salts are in my water column. My tapwater has an EC of 0.60 mS/cm. Over time, I figured out that my tank water should have between 0.85 and 0.95 mS/cm. When I started the tank, it was around 0.75, so I increased my tsp's until now it's at ~0.85.

Micros are a 50/50 mix of Flourish and DTPA solution, dosed every night via a peristaltic pump. I dose about 8ml, which doesn't say much, except that it isn't very much.

This might seem very little ferts for a tank this size, but keep in mind that I change only about 5gal water/day, which, considering the size of the tank, is very little. Someone changing say 50% a week would have to use a totally different amount of ferts.

I think adding cups of fertilizer to this tank and then "resetting" everything weekly would be very wasteful, that's why this slightly modified, sustained, perpetual  method.


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## billb

I love this tank Wasserpest. Great pictures too - I am going to have to get some C.willisi.

Your idea of using the conductivity to track fert levels is very clever.


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## CL

Very nice dosing method. It sounds like it's working considering you don't have very much algae left to deal with. Thanks for re-explaining that for me


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## Wasserpest

billb said:


> I love this tank Wasserpest. Great pictures too - I am going to have to get some C.willisi.
> 
> Your idea of using the conductivity to track fert levels is very clever.


It's very quick and simple... doesn't show exactly how much of what is in there, but knowing what I add, and knowing tap water levels, it's still good information.



CL said:


> Very nice dosing method. It sounds like it's working considering you don't have very much algae left to deal with. Thanks for re-explaining that for me


No problem.


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## sewingalot

I demand an updated full tank shot! :biggrin:


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## Wasserpest

Your wish is my command. Here you go...










Not much to talk about. In persona the 30" of depth look much better than sandwiched into a 2D image. Mr. Hyzer likes to take it in surround mode with his nose against the glass :hihi:

The Bolbitis is getting out of hand, need to whack those back. Trying to reduce the variety a bit, not much success. Fish and shrimp seem happy. Algae, sure, there is some interesting stuff in there, but not a problem.


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## sewingalot

Gorgeous, as always. It actually has some depth in there I can see pretty well. I bet it is amazing in person. Do you have some of the plants attached to the back wall or did they get planted to look like they are draping like that. I notice your algae rampage is gone. Who cares about the little bit here and there if the whole picture is nice, right? Are you autodosing this tank as well?

Cute name, Mr. Hyzer. Where did you come up with that? 

Good luck getting the variety down, I'll never conquer that problem. One plant I do want to try in the future is Bolbitis. Do you know if it would look okay in a 20 gallon tank or is the leaf structure to overbearing?

Oh, and thanks for the picture update. Very inspiring.


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## Wasserpest

Thanks S!

_Do you have some of the plants attached to the back wall or did they get planted to look like they are draping like that. _

Both, and then some... I did attach some of the Java ferns to a plastic grid which was then stuck to the back wall. They spread all over the area. The Bolbitis was just placed all the way back and has over time attached itself to the back. Then there is some cool moss that likes to cover the epoxy layer very evenly, looks great but is way back there so it's hard to capture.

_ I notice your algae rampage is gone. Who cares about the little bit here and there if the whole picture is nice, right? Are you autodosing this tank as well?
_
Check seven posts earlier for my dosing. Once a month I refill macros, and every 4 months micros. No big job.
_
Cute name, Mr. Hyzer. Where did you come up with that? _

He's another local plant nut and PT member. I think you posted in some of his journals too?

_Good luck getting the variety down, I'll never conquer that problem. One plant I do want to try in the future is Bolbitis. Do you know if it would look okay in a 20 gallon tank or is the leaf structure to overbearing?_

I have seen beautiful smallish tanks with Bolbitis. Some say there are two different varieties - one large and one small. I dunno, could be environmental reasons, but if that's right I definitely have the large one. Not sure if it is light or tank size or ferts that make them grow compact vs not, but they are sure beautiful if the stay smaller.
_
Oh, and thanks for the picture update. Very inspiring._

No problem, thanks for asking. I'll post some more detail shots very soon.


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## sewingalot

ROFLOL, I thought by your description, Mr Hyzer was a dog because of the nose pressed up against the glass. :hihi: I remember a member by that name now, I loved what he did with his tank, didn't you give him like a bunch of plants. Gee, do I feel silly. 

That is a great idea with the java fern being attached to the wall like that. I may just have to steal this idea for the twenty gallon. In the process of soil mineralization for a complete tear down. And now I want some of that bolbitis. I'll be contacting you sometime to try to get a piece. 

Totally missed the post about your dosing. I'm lazy sometimes.... I was wondering on your autodosing if you have problems with mold? I am just about to the point I've nailed down the dosing and am going to setup a autodoser like the one you linked, but I am having major issues with mold forming in the micros after about a week of storing the liquid. Even in the fridge, it starts to show up in couple weeks. I tried the excel and antifungal medicine route, but it's not working. Any tips, or do I need to worry about it?

If we ever make it to California in a few years, I am showing up with banana bread and a husband so that I can see this tank in person. Can't wait for the more detailed shots. Can you get a close up of the java ferns and moss background?


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## rasbora

Good job man.


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## Wasserpest

_That is a great idea with the java fern being attached to the wall like that. I may just have to steal this idea for the twenty gallon. In the process of soil mineralization for a complete tear down. And now I want some of that bolbitis. I'll be contacting you sometime to try to get a piece. _

I'll hook you up with some Bolbitis, not to worry. Needs to be whacked back anyway.

_I was wondering on your autodosing if you have problems with mold? I am just about to the point I've nailed down the dosing and am going to setup a autodoser like the one you linked, but I am having major issues with mold forming in the micros after about a week of storing the liquid. Even in the fridge, it starts to show up in couple weeks. I tried the excel and antifungal medicine route, but it's not working. Any tips, or do I need to worry about it?_

I had the same problems when I dosed diluted micros. Nowadays I dose Flourish in full strength via peristaltic pumps, and there is no issue with fungus or mold.

_If we ever make it to California in a few years, I am showing up with banana bread and a husband so that I can see this tank in person. Can't wait for the more detailed shots. Can you get a close up of the java ferns and moss background?_

You are always welcome to drop by and check it out in person. Here are some more images of the tank... It's hard to get a good photo of the moss, since it is all the way back, dark moss on a black background... I might have taken some of that in my 135 garage tank.


----------



## Hyzer

Yep, set up a chair and stare. The depth of this tank is just amazing. I don't mark up the glass....much. @ sewing: woof.

It's hard to see it in this pic, but the mini pellia attached to the driftwood is sweet looking. The pencils "fighting" is another very noteworthy sight.

WP has an ability to use many different varieties of plants, yet keep the tank very natural looking.


----------



## Hyzer

Wasserpest said:


>


Exactly what I'm talking about. You can usually find a dozen shrimp or so climbing all over it.


----------



## sewingalot

LOL, I'm glad you're a good sport, Hyzer.  I love the shot of the shrimp on the driftwood. It looks like they are playing king of the hill. Do you like flourish better than CSM+B? I am starting to really not like csm's for some reason. I used some left over flourish for my tank a while back and noticed a huge difference. The flourish seemed to do a much better job, especially for the rotalas.


----------



## Wasserpest

_It's hard to see it in this pic, but the mini pellia attached to the driftwood is sweet looking. The pencils "fighting" is another very noteworthy sight._

When you see pencils doing that the first time you go like "What?!?" Very unique way to show their stuff. I am glad they are smart enough not to get eaten by my ABF's.

_WP has an ability to use many different varieties of plants, yet keep the tank very natural looking._

Wouldn't consider it an ability. Thanks though! I just let them grow, with small corrections here and there. Definitely need to change something about that left foreground. It's just so hard to remove otherwise good looking plants.

_Do you like flourish better than CSM+B? I am starting to really not like csm's for some reason. I used some left over flourish for my tank a while back and noticed a huge difference. The flourish seemed to do a much better job, especially for the rotalas._

Ya know, I never tried CSM+B. Flourish has always worked for me, and I tend to under-dose so the 2l bottle lasts several years. I recently started to add some DTPA iron chelate which is supposed to do wonders for hard water. It's hard to tell if there's a difference.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Wow! This tank is so lush and green, I love it


----------



## Piranha

great build


----------



## sewingalot

_Ya know, I never tried CSM+B. Flourish has always worked for me, and I tend to under-dose so the 2l bottle lasts several years. I recently started to add some DTPA iron chelate which is supposed to do wonders for hard water. It's hard to tell if there's a difference._

The more I use it, the less I like it. Maybe it's all in my head, but I really thought flourish did a much better job and lasted quite a while for me. I am thinking about switching back.


----------



## sewingalot

After getting my plants yesterday from you, I can see why Mr. Hyzer has his nose against the glass of your tank. Wasser, you must give these plants steroids. I actually had to take out all the decorations to get the plants to fit. Still had some left over to put in another tank. The more I looked at the tank, I started wondering what yours looks like with all the stuff you sent me. Oh, and guess what? I had a couple hitchhiker cherries. They are sifting through the pellia, rearranging it. I've got to tie it down. Had to totally hijack your thread to tell you all this, since I have no journal for this tank and I am totally stoked. :biggrin:


----------



## Wasserpest

It's really difficult to remove plants without removing Cherries as well.  Usually they arrive crispy dried, I am glad some survived the trip!


----------



## sewingalot

I actually looked and the only thing that didn't survive was a sole MTS. I am sure that the others will produce 6000000000 in it's place soon enough. I haven't had MTS in years, are they as bad as some people think, or is it just another pond snail thing?


----------



## Wasserpest

Here is a shot of the Java Moss attached to the epoxied backside.










A bit closer up... Given enough undisturbed time, this moss will even attach to glass.










A while ago one of the bulbs burnt out, and I replaced it with a brand-new one. Don't know if it was the new spectrum, or just more light output, but I got a nice little algae outbreak in the immediate surroundings.










In the meantime it has mostly cleared up, and I can stop worrying that I have to algae-scrape my ABF's.










Looks kinda messy in photos. Doesn't do the 30" depth justice.


----------



## Hyzer

Looking great. I was just trying to explain that natural moss wall in another thread. 

Not like it was ever very noticeable, but I'm glad to hear the algae is calming down after the bulb change. I get that same gray-green algae on the piece of driftwood you gave me, but none of my other pieces. Strange, but I kinda like it.

That's a lot of happy shrimpers.


----------



## Xalyx

Probably because you built this tank a year ago and year old bulbs lose a lot of there light output. So the new one was way more light than your tank was used to.


----------



## Wasserpest

Hyzer said:


> Looking great. I was just trying to explain that natural moss wall in another thread.
> 
> Not like it was ever very noticeable, but I'm glad to hear the algae is calming down after the bulb change. I get that same gray-green algae on the piece of driftwood you gave me, but none of my other pieces. Strange, but I kinda like it.
> 
> That's a lot of happy shrimpers.


Thanks K, the algae is all but gone now. I think I showed you the new bulb in action and you could see a clear difference in output over the same brand (UVL Aquasun) next to it. Seems like over a few months this bulb starts to get a tad brownish, not unlike the Aquamedic Planta bulbs a long time ago.

Pick up more shrimpses if you'd like.



Xalyx said:


> Probably because you built this tank a year ago and year old bulbs lose a lot of there light output. So the new one was way more light than your tank was used to.


Agreed... Overall, the six bulbs on this tank have different ages, some newer some older. I leave them there until their death do us apart. :biggrin:


----------



## sewingalot

That java moss growing on the back wall is soooooo cool! I want a plywood tank, now. :drool:


----------



## S&KGray

Wasserpest said:


> A bit closer up... Given enough undisturbed time, this moss will even attach to glass.


Yep, I had some java moss growing up the glass in my 55; but when I ripped out some of the moss below, most of it pulled away. Still have a little bit growing up the glass though. :biggrin:


----------



## sewingalot

It's been three months, Wasserpest. I do believe that entitles me to see an update.


----------



## speedie408

At first glance you'd think the first two pics were from the mountain sides of the High Sierras and the pine trees up there.









That's Awesome!


----------



## malaybiswas

Wonderful tank Wasser. Hope your thread algae issue gets in control soon. I especially love the moss growth.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks guys -- agreed, it's time to refresh this thread with some new pics. There hasn't been much change during the last months. Besides cleaning the front glass and removing biomass not much interaction. There's a bit of thread algae on the Java Ferns closest to the surface, but cutting them back removes most of it.

I was actually thinking about diving in and making some 'scaping changes (today). Going to remove the Dwarf Sags and whatnot on the left side, and spread the Crypt lucens throughout the entire foreground. It's hard to get rid of plants, but the result will be worth it. I think. I promise to take some shots in a few days when things have calmed down, and post them right here!


----------



## sewingalot

Any change on the algae now that the bulbs have aged a bit? I am about due to put in a new light bulb and I'm scared.


----------



## Wasserpest

Been a while since I posted some pictures, mostly because there isn't that much new stuff to show off.










Once a week I clean the front glass, and pull out a few weeds: mosses, Riccia, Pellia, SWT, and whatever else threatens to take over.










The top rim comes in handy as temporary storage before they go and meet Mr. Compost.










*F*ull *T*ank *S*hot










Right side detail










Left side detail










Some Mini-Pellia-on-a-shtick










King of the Hill?


----------



## macclellan

nice. what's that small maroon sword on the left?


man... i think i'll need to move my crinum to a different spot in the tank after seeing that...


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks Joel! That is a Melon Sword E. barthii. Oldie but goodie, def one of my favorite ones due to their non-explosive nature.

C. cal wants to be center stage! Not sure why, it's just in their nature. I have some in the back as well and they grow a leaf, lose a leaf, for a year already. This one is taking off. No flowers yet (which is fine... no room between surface and light fixture).


----------



## macclellan

I got mine not in the best shape... it's been a few months of TLC and it is starting to 'explode'. some leaves are >36" and more and more are coming out now. definitely likes center stage!


----------



## speedie408

Thomas,

That little crypt there in the foreground... that's the one you sent a little sample to me a while back right? C. lucens?? I forgot the name. Love that plant! If you ever trim again, lemme know.


----------



## Da Plant Man

Amazing! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Wasserpest

macclellan said:


> I got mine not in the best shape... it's been a few months of TLC and it is starting to 'explode'. some leaves are >36" and more and more are coming out now. definitely likes center stage!


Heh, that's still small. :tongue: Some of the Crinums in the background have >4 ft leaves. You can see one in the detail shot of the right side, going almost straight to the right. With more light exposure they stay a bit more compact as well.



speedie408 said:


> Thomas,
> 
> That little crypt there in the foreground... that's the one you sent a little sample to me a while back right? C. lucens?? I forgot the name. Love that plant! If you ever trim again, lemme know.


Yep, that's it. I actually removed a lot of plants from the left side foreground (Dwarf Sags, Wisteria and others) and planted some of those Crypts there to make a unified foreground containing just C. lucens/willisii and whatever gets stuck in between them. Marsilea has (without asking) taking over the entire tank, all the 30" to the back pane.

In a few weeks I will post some C. lucens for sale, need to reduce the thicket on the right. I'll give you a heads-up.


----------



## Hyzer

The tank is looking great! I especially love that Melon Sword.

Those MP trees are huge now. It's also amazing how even thought you trim off a bunch, it still looks like a lush aquatic jungle.

Thanks for posting pics!


----------



## Chaos_Being

Thanks for the update...still looks amazing! :eek5:


----------



## chad320

Wow! This thing amazes me everytime I see it!


----------



## sewingalot

Wasser, you put many of us to shame with your tank. I'm still in awe that you built that from the ground up. The plants are looking healthy as usual. Looks like the algae went away from the bulb replacement.


----------



## Wasserpest

Hyzer said:


> The tank is looking great! I especially love that Melon Sword.
> 
> Those MP trees are huge now. It's also amazing how even thought you trim off a bunch, it still looks like a lush aquatic jungle.
> 
> Thanks for posting pics!


Thanks K! You are right about that trimming! I send a pound (really!) of Java Ferns to Mr Gatekeeper, and there wasn't much change visible in terms of lost plant mass.



sewingalot said:


> Wasser, you put many of us to shame with your tank. I'm still in awe that you built that from the ground up. The plants are looking healthy as usual. Looks like the algae went away from the bulb replacement.


Thanks S! It's really nothing special. Just easy growers, light and some food.  The algae has gone away, it was just growing on plants really, really close to the lights. (I sent all of them to G :tongue.

As I mentioned earlier, maintenance with automatic water changes and automatic fert dosing is a breeze. Biggest issue is that since the tank is insulated so much (thick wood), it tends to heat up a bit. It doesn't have a heater at all, and I need to use fans/open the hood to keep temps below 80. Most of the time only 3 bulbs are on, 6 bulbs for a few hours.


----------



## sewingalot

I finally got everything in to get the Wassercontroller built. I bought 3 different timers and none of them worked. I finally gave up and bought the one you had. Pretty soon I'll be automatically dosing just in time to go MTS. :hihi:

I never realized wood could build up that fast of heat. Makes sense though. Good going on spreading the algae love to G. Maybe he can send some to L.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Yea, I am growing out his bba now. Lol!!

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## sewingalot

It's been two months, T. Anything to share with us? I'm particularly interested in everything.


----------



## dbLbogie

Another amazing Wasserproject!

Just read through this whole thread... What would make this thread even better would be a nice 5 minute or so video in 720 or 1080p !


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks d! Hmmm... I haven't done much video editing since HD became mainstream. More of a still image guy. And a little perfectionist. It takes an extraordinary amount of time to make even a short video clip look perfect.

Not much in terms of updates. I added some small Rainbow fishies thinking that the African Butterflies lost their "edge" after 8 years. Next morning there were only 40% of them left... so I had to relocate the remaining ones. Waiting patiently for the ABF's to die, but I have had them for so long, in so many different tanks, they are truly grandfathered in now.

I cleaned up the foreground somewhat. Trying to stay mostly with Crypt willisii, and a bit of 2-leaved Pearlweed and Marsilea here and there. Every 4 weeks or so I have to vacuum out all that pesky Pellia, SWT, Fissidens and Mini Pellia that breaks off in other parts of the tank, collects between foreground plants, and starts to squeeze them.


----------



## sewingalot

T - I pmed you and begged and now I am publicly imploring you for pictures. Your last pictorial update was on 03-27-2011 and I am so sad that I am patiently waiting for pictures while Hyzer can plaster his nose to the tank anytime he likes. So may I see some updated photos?  PUH-Leeeeeeze?


----------



## komodoking

This is 1 Fantastic Build, What a inspiration.


----------



## 150EH

Wasser it took me 2 years to find this thread but with me joining only a little more than a year after you we are divided by more than 11,238 posts so it's more miss than hit for me.

Wow, you are really crazy (in a good way) putting this tank in the house, but your DIY skill is off the chart and I'm guessing you wife is tied up in the closet somewhere.

I was only able to skim thru with very little reading and mostly just looking at pics, but I love what you've done, lots of variety in plant material and live stock, and the daily water cahnge put it over the top.

You've done a really great job and I must say you are the "DIY Guru" and not at all "Born to be mild", congrats on a job well done.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks guys! :smile: I am glad this thread serves its purpose to inspire others to "go for it" (maybe... one day). Actually due to the bump I read the first couple of pages again yesterday, it's like a diary, pretty cool.

Wife is out of the closet now, actually she is forgiving when it comes to my hobbies. She has hers, and there are worse things than humongous fish tanks, so... With all the automation the time spent maintaining the beast is relatively little, this definitely helps to keep the peace.

And S - I publicly apologize for the lack of photos. I did take a couple recently, just need to transfer, upload and attach them here. Soon! Hyzer is thinking about moving your way so he can appreciate your tanks instead of mine. :icon_cry:


----------



## Hilde

Wasserpest said:


> Right side detail


Love it. It has a natural feel to it.:thumbsup:
Such a long thread to go through. Do you dose ferts or inject Co2? 

What is the string crypt on the left?


----------



## sewingalot

Wasserpest said:


> Thanks guys! :smile: I am glad this thread serves its purpose to inspire others to "go for it" (maybe... one day). Actually due to the bump I read the first couple of pages again yesterday, it's like a diary, pretty cool.
> 
> Wife is out of the closet now, actually she is forgiving when it comes to my hobbies. She has hers, and there are worse things than humongous fish tanks, so... With all the automation the time spent maintaining the beast is relatively little, this definitely helps to keep the peace.
> 
> And S - I publicly apologize for the lack of photos. I did take a couple recently, just need to transfer, upload and attach them here. Soon! Hyzer is thinking about moving your way so he can appreciate your tanks instead of mine. :icon_cry:


Your wife is fantastic to be supportive. Having a spouse that approves does help. She sounds like my guy. 

I'll wait for the photos and pine away longing for them a little longer. But if I don't see them by next month, I will sick Lauralee on you. :icon_mrgr

Oh, that's sad that you'll be maybe loosing Hyzer to another area! But if he's coming my way, that's awesome. roud:



Hilde said:


> Love it. It has a natural feel to it.:thumbsup:
> Such a long tread to go through. Do you dose ferts or inject Co2?
> 
> What is the string crypt on the left?


If any tank journal deserves a read through, this is the one, Hilde. I think you'd really enjoy Wasserpest's information on the tank. I read this journal like three times and dreamed of making a wooden tank for months.


----------



## Hilde

sewingalot said:


> Hilde. I think you'd really enjoy Wasserpest's information on the tank.


Hopefully will 1 day. Now having daily contact with smokers my allergies are affecting me too much to read the whole thread.


----------



## Wasserpest

Hilde said:


> Love it. It has a natural feel to it.:thumbsup:
> Such a long thread to go through. Do you dose ferts or inject Co2?
> 
> What is the string crypt on the left?


Sorry about the length, I probably wrote about it earlier but here is what I do - 

I (auto)dose small quantities of macros (NPK) and micros (mix of Flourish and DTPA) daily. How much exactly? 10 tsp KNO3, 6 tsp K2SO4, and 1 tsp KH2PO4 last about a month. 250 ml of half Flourish/half DTPA solution last about 4 months.

Of course this is all affected by plant density, plant growth/light intensity etc so the absolute numbers are really quite meaningless.

I inject CO2, but not sure what exact levels are, probably pretty low. About 4 bubbles/second, again, meaningless number. I think perhaps ~15ppm of CO2, although I haven't measured for a long time.

Water changes are 5 gallons per day, just fyi.

The stringy plant is a Crinum calamistratum, interesting plant for larger tanks. I had one in my 36gal that used to flower all the time. Not easy to manage with closed-top tanks though, so I am thankful that they don't do that in this tank.


----------



## 150EH

My Crinium is the largest plant in my tank and the leaves/stalks are 36 to 40 inches long, but you seem to look right thru it and don't really consider it a large plant because it's so delicate.


----------



## zachary908

The tank looks great, Wasserpest! I love the crinums!


----------



## Wasserpest

Always late, but worth the wait. Something like that. I finally caught up with my images, and while they are already a month old, nothing much has changed.

First of all, the obligatory FTS:










No big difference to earlier ones. I cleaned up the foreground a bit, C. x willisii is now spreading out both left and right.










Foxy, the FFF, wanting attention as usual.










This Ludwigia provides a dot of color, contrasting nicely with its green surroundings.










Low nutrient levels lead to strong reds, but also unhealthy plants. Older leaves are decaying as new leaves develop. After a while, I replant the top, which leads to another big shock until roots develop. Very slow growth so... I still love it.










This Tiger Lotus showed up quite unexpectedly. Looks nice at the moment, but slowly&surely the leaves push higher and higher, after a while shade out anything that's below it, and try to reach the surface. So it's not a lasting affair.










Mini Pellia has grown and grown, until the ball became too large so I cut it into pieces and sent it to others. It will be back... in a year or so.










Suesswassertang, aka Freshwater Seaweed, was initially stuffed into this Manzanita branch fork, has taken hold and now grown a very dense cover that clings well to the wood. Very cool, and hard to take a picture of it since it is like 20 inches way back in the tank.










Earlier I posted a photo showing the humble beginnings of a "natural" moss wall, with Java moss clinging to the Epoxy. This has now grown into a thick green jungle. Christmas moss has taken hold and taken over. When the whole thing grows to several inches of thickness, it is time to send out moss samples. :wink:


----------



## audioaficionado

Hey I think I recognize some of those plants personally. :wink:


----------



## sewingalot

That moss wall is incredible especially since it decided to grow itself like that. I don't know how you do it. Everything looks great. Thanks for the updated pictures, T! Well worth the wait.


----------



## Hyzer

Great update man! 

Glad you are enjoying the glandulosa. I don't have much luck with the lower leaves either, even with an abundance of nutrients and CO2.


----------



## ibmikmaq

very enjoyable thread thanks so much for sharing! absolutely amazing!


----------



## Hilde

Perhaps a little more calcium sulfate would help the ludwiga


----------



## macclellan

Tank looks good! moss wall with bolbitus is sweet.

Glad to see that the tiger lotus finally made crept out of the nether! Lotuses will make a few attempts at the surface as they become established, but then they give up and stay at that height. the mother of that plant is not any taller than that and hasn't tried to go for the surface for 2 years or so.

I'd be game for some C. willisii if you're overgrown again and looking to sell some.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks for taking the time to comment! roud:

Joel - I will try to keep the Lotus in check. Not sure how it ended up in that place... I had a tiny bulb from you and planted it, sprouted and then didn't do much for a while. I thought it died or I gave it away. Must have drifted there one day. At it's current place it is fighting with the Crinum. Might have to find the origin of the plant and relocate it. With an almost 2.5 feet deep tank that's always somewhat of a bigger event.

In two or so months I should have plenty C. w., I will pm you in case you are still interested then.

I have a few shrimp pics too, will post them in a few days.


----------



## BradH

This tank is awesome!


----------



## 2in10

Gorgeous tank, love the moss wall, great placement of plants


----------



## Sharkfood

That really is an amazing tank!

I must have gone over this whole thread 4 times now to see how you built everything.


----------



## Wasserpest

That's awesome! Makes it worth to post these journal threads. I do the same thing once in a while, start on the first post and see how (slowly) it all developed.

By all means ask questions if you want something explained more in detail.

I promise I will post some more pics tomorrow... :icon_mrgr


----------



## Wasserpest

Here are a few more images from this tank -










Back when I started this tank I picked up a dozen Amano shrimp from Zid Zulander, they are still happily cleaning.










So pretty up close... :smile:










As you could see in the other shots this tank is hopelessly overrun by Cherry shrimpers. I don't feed them at all, but there is plenty of algae and stuff for them to munch on.

You can see how small particles (spores?) of Mini Pellia and Fissidens and other mosses take hold on the Manzanita, and with time grow to large bushes. With some patience, an aquascape takes a direction of its own, and you just have to make small corrections, like remove things that grow too fast.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Wow it's been a while since I checked in on your tank and it's really looking lovely.

What lens are you using for your macro shots? Those are fantastic too.


----------



## 2in10

Awesome macro shots, very cool on the spore growths and not feeding the shrimp.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks Laura & 2in10! I took those with a Sigma 17-70 lens which is very macro capable.


----------



## 150EH

Wasserpest, I'm dreaming of a new tank but it keeps comming back to the amount of cash needed for the project, but the placement is great with my garage right on the other side of the wall and hot/cold water, can you see where this is going.

I thought of your tank last night at 1:46 am as I was trying to drift off into never never land and my mind got racing and couldn't stop, wasser, plywood, no gear under tank, wall o fish, got to sleep now, I have no idea what time my brain quit but I did get most of the tank done in my mind, so I will be using this thread for help as I start my own. I'm going to take it very slow and put it on paper and figure out all the small details but I may need your help on some of the materials and it will be mainly your sealing technic on the plywood and glass.

PS: My wife may be on her way to California to kick your a$$, sorry dude.

BTW: 383 gallons 7' x 30" x 24"


----------



## Sharkfood

> Wasserpest, I'm dreaming of a new tank but it keeps comming back to the amount of cash needed for the project, but the placement is great with my garage right on the other side of the wall and hot/cold water, can you see where this is going.


One nice thing about a DIY of this scale is that you don't have to buy everything at once.


----------



## Hyzer

Sweet shrimp pics. R now says that we need to get some Amanos.

How are those Rainbows doing?


----------



## Wasserpest

150EH said:


> Wasserpest, I'm dreaming of a new tank but it keeps comming back to the amount of cash needed for the project, but the placement is great with my garage right on the other side of the wall and hot/cold water, can you see where this is going.
> 
> I thought of your tank last night at 1:46 am as I was trying to drift off into never never land and my mind got racing and couldn't stop, wasser, plywood, no gear under tank, wall o fish, got to sleep now, I have no idea what time my brain quit but I did get most of the tank done in my mind, so I will be using this thread for help as I start my own. I'm going to take it very slow and put it on paper and figure out all the small details but I may need your help on some of the materials and it will be mainly your sealing technic on the plywood and glass.
> 
> PS: My wife may be on her way to California to kick your a$$, sorry dude.
> 
> BTW: 383 gallons 7' x 30" x 24"


Sorry!!! I am the same way, if I am pondering some project it is hard to go to sleep, just keeps circling around in your mind.

I am not a pro woodworker, so I found it helpful to first try a lower impact project (my 55gal to 270gal conversion). I made some mistakes and learned from them before doing something at a larger scale inside the house. When you have time, dig out that thread for some additional reading (and lol-ing perhaps). Drawing everything meticulously before you even start to buy things helps a lot. I use Visio for that. Don't hesitate to ask questions here or there or in your future journal.

7 ft length means you just so can't fit 2x 4ft T5 bulbs end to end. Something to consider if T5 will be your lighting choice. I didn't have the room to do 8 ft.



Sharkfood said:


> One nice thing about a DIY of this scale is that you don't have to buy everything at once.


Very true... If you want to or have to spread out things a bit, you can order the epoxy, glass, and wood (largest expenses) separately. Early in this thread I posted an expense summary for some rough budgeting. You can probably shave off another $100 by not using Starphire glass. 



Hyzer said:


> Sweet shrimp pics. R now says that we need to get some Amanos.
> 
> How are those Rainbows doing?


Thanks K! The Rainbows are doing well, I haven't lost a single one after the initial snacking accident. Especially the male is beautiful. Looking for babies, but they might still be too young. One day when those ABF's are in fish heaven I will get another bunch of the P. furcata or gertrudae from msjinkzd for sure.


----------



## malaybiswas

Very nice growth. Lovely pleasant tank. For the L. peruensis, you can try planting it to the rear and not trim it so often. It is a slow grower in my experience, but without inducing nutrients, if you allow it to grow all the way to the surface, closer to light, you will get a lovely magenta crown. The leaves will also become narrow and long instead of the wide leaves you have not. Try it if you want to, I love that look.


----------



## audioaficionado

How difficult or easy was it to obtain Starphire glass in large and thick enough sheets?

It's worth the extra expense IMO.


----------



## Wasserpest

It was very easy. I opened the yellow pages, and called four different glass shops. The prices were extremely different from one place to the next! Definitely worth to get a few quotes. After you have figured out the size (remember there is going to be some overlap) and thickness, you need to decide whether low iron or not, tempered or not, and beveled or not.

To me, it is worth to extra expense too. For someone who is more cash-strapped and $80-100 makes or breaks the project, I'd say don't worry about it, the difference is very small.


----------



## JasonG75

Kuddos Wasserpest you have put together a beautiful tank roud:

I am sure the maintaince is a pain, but you have built something very breathtaking.


----------



## VadimShevchuk

I spent the whole afternoon reading 26 pages of your awesome tank! sweet build and keep the pictures rolling our way! Favorite part of this tank is your crypts in the foreground and your awesome moss wall!


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on it! 



JasonG75 said:


> I am sure the maintaince is a pain, but you have built something very breathtaking.


One goal when I built this was to minimize maintenance. All I do on a regular basis is to scrape algae off the front glass every ~10 days. Every two or three weeks I remove older leaves from Swords, and perhaps pull out a few plants. Maybe once a month I vacuum out Pellia, Mosses and other things that get stuck in places where I don't want them. Once a month I refill the macro dosing solution, which takes about 5 minutes.

Not that much maintenance really. I removed some of the very fast growers like Ambulias, Wisterias and Watersprite. Actually some of them disappeared on their own.


----------



## 150EH

Thanks for the incouragement, but my room is 7' 8 5/8" but I am a very skilled woodworker with lots of tools, tablesaw, drillpress, routers, biscut joiners, etc, so that end is covered. Now making things water tight is a whole nother story, but I want to make it in 3 pieces so it's easier to move into place and I want to use a wider border around the glass to hide any circulation pumps etc. 

My biggest question so far is about the water proof coating and clean algae from it, I guess just a soft brush. I also want to make my lighting adjustable in hieght and want it to be easily moved upward for tank maintenance, but it should be a cool project.

Just think it was less than a month ago and I had never heard of a plywood tank and I have my page set to 40 posts per page, what the ...............

PS: You said your were going to add a threaded rod for added support and to keep it from bowing, I never saw anything. Was there any other type of support above the glass to keep the top from bowing out??


----------



## Wasserpest

150EH said:


> My biggest question so far is about the water proof coating and clean algae from it, I guess just a soft brush.


To waterproof the wood, I used a layer of Goop Coat-It epoxy, which was then coated with Sweetwater epoxy paint. The SW paint alone is waterproof. But wood is relatively soft, so there is always the danger of something puncturing the relatively thin paint layer, which will cause moisture to get into the wood and endless grief. The Coat-It adds some strength...

I chose black SW paint, so there is no need to worry about algae, because it stays invisible. If there is fluffy/hairy algae a filter sponge should work well to remove it.



150EH said:


> You said your were going to add a threaded rod for added support and to keep it from bowing, I never saw anything. Was there any other type of support above the glass to keep the top from bowing out??


I did add the threaded rod, it goes front to back over the center of the tank, just above the glass. You can see the washer in some of the shots that show the entire setup. Together with the L-shaped steel sandwiched into the front rim there is zero bowing. It also relieves pressure that would otherwise pull the corners apart. During maintenance and when trying to catch fish it disturbs a bit, but the added peace of mind is definitely worth it to me.


----------



## 150EH

I did notice the washer and I did see the steel support, thanks for the info.

I'll have to start seaching to see what is available here in the paint and epoxy dept.


----------



## Sharkfood

I'm curious Wassser.

Did you find it necessary to sand the epoxy perfectly flush where the glass was attached, or does the silicone take up any small imperfections?


----------



## Wasserpest

Nope, I did not sand the epoxy at all. I used little spacers made from silicone tubing to maintain a silicone buffer zone between the glass and the frame.

I did some testing and the silicone bonds very well to cured Sweetwater epoxy paint even without additional sanding.

Where I ran into an issue was with the bulkheads. With the holes being close to the back wall, there were some uneven areas that the bulkhead gaskets didn't handle well. So I ended up removing gaskets and using silicone for two of the bulkheads as well. They are really made for absolutely even glass panes.


----------



## mountaindew

Quality macro shot of shrimp!
Pictures like that are the reason I surf these threads
mD


----------



## Sharkfood

> Nope, I did not sand the epoxy at all. I used little spacers made from silicone tubing to maintain a silicone buffer zone between the glass and the frame.


I'm not really sure I understand what you are describing here. Is there a silicone airline inside of the silicone joint between your glass and the epoxy?


I'm pretty sure Sweetwater paint is just pigmented epoxy, and you are right, silicone bonds very strongly to epoxy. I siliconed an epoxy coated piece of plywood into my tank as a divider, and the bond is strong enough to lift the whole 240 gallon paludarium off of the ground. (Empty of course :icon_smil)


----------



## Wasserpest

Sharkfood said:


> I'm not really sure I understand what you are describing here. Is there a silicone airline inside of the silicone joint between your glass and the epoxy?


Sorry, it's a bit hard to describe for me. I cut some vinyl tubing (3/8" or 1/2", don't remember) into small pieces (maybe 1/2 in long). Then I sliced them lengthwise and stuck them onto the glass. That way there was a tiny bit of space between the glass and the epoxy once I glued the glass to the frame. I removed the pieces later, and filled more silicone to pretty much embed the glass into silicone.

Keep in mind that the whole silicone-ing part is really not critical, say compared to applying epoxy and making sure the rig is strong enough to not bow or blow apart. Water pressure pushes the glass against the frame so there is no shearing etc at work like we would have with silicone'd all glass tanks.


----------



## dbLbogie

WP awesome macros! I love the first one of the amano where the back moss leaves are in focus.

I hope it's on topic here What are you adding to your auto dosing mix lately to keep from smelling bad / getting stuff from forming in there? I had been adding 1-2mL of Excel, but during the hotter summer months my micro bottle started getting cloudy and a bit rank.. thx


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks db! 

I dose my micros concentrated (50% straight Flourish/50% DTPA solution). There is no growth or deterioration from what I can tell. It's delivered by peristaltic pumps, and I clean/refill every 4 months.

The macros start to smell a bit funky after 4 weeks when it is time for a refill, but I haven't seen any detrimental effects so I figure it's not an issue.


----------



## jart

Those shrimp shots in post 371 are sick. This whole thread is a great read. Thanks!


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks a lot jart! Can't believe this thread has almost 400 posts. :fish:










One more shot of the E. barthii and H. angustifolia, nice color contrast. The Hygro grows a tad fast for a tank like this, but still manageable.


----------



## jart

Now that is a great looking sword. I'll keep that species in mind for my next tank. I agree that the augustifolia can grow a bit fast for my liking, but I find it compliments other plants well. Besides, it is one of the easier stems to cut back, IMO.


----------



## speedie408

I really need to set up some peristaltic pumps for my ferts too. Then again I don't really mind turning on the lights in the morning before work to look at the tank and dry dose. Helps me start the day . 

Anyways, that's a gorgeous looking sword Thomas. Let me know when you have a baby available so I can snatch it from you.


----------



## 150EH

That's great glass it looks like the camera was in the water!!!!!!!!!!!!!

399


----------



## Wasserpest

jart said:


> Now that is a great looking sword. I'll keep that species in mind for my next tank. I agree that the augustifolia can grow a bit fast for my liking, but I find it compliments other plants well. Besides, it is one of the easier stems to cut back, IMO.


Yep, I just sold a bunch of the H. a., you are right, easy to prune, or rip out and replant the tops.



speedie408 said:


> I really need to set up some peristaltic pumps for my ferts too. Then again I don't really mind turning on the lights in the morning before work to look at the tank and dry dose. Helps me start the day .
> 
> Anyways, that's a gorgeous looking sword Thomas. Let me know when you have a baby available so I can snatch it from you.


So what do you do when you go camping? Blackout? :icon_eek:

For some reason, the E.xbarthii never grow adventitious plants like other swords do, at least in my tank. So... no babies. 



150EH said:


> That's great glass it looks like the camera was in the water!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 399


Haha, 400! Actually I do see a bit of distortion towards the sides, caused by taking this shot at an angle. Needs a tad bigger f-stop for better depth of field. Always something to learn!


----------



## speedie408

Wasserpest said:


> So what do you do when you go camping? Blackout? :icon_eek:
> 
> For some reason, the E.xbarthii never grow adventitious plants like other swords do, at least in my tank. So... no babies.


lol easy. Use half the lights (turn off one switch to 2 bulbs) and dose extra ferts the day before we leave. Come back home to a happy tank after 4 days. :smile:


----------



## Wasserpest

FYI I am changing my image host at the moment so many of the images are temporarily gone. I will re-link them as soon as possible. Sorry!

Edit - All back in my photobucket.


----------



## Wasserpest

Yesterday, while pulling out the canister filter for a cleaning, I noticed some dripping from one of the bulkheads. Totally freaked... considering the 250gal of water above. After a while I calmed down and figured it's just the gasket getting a bit dislocated when I pull on the plumbing.

Anyway, this might be a reason to plan on emptying the whole thing and redoing some of the bulkheads. Maybe this coming Summer?

I am thinking of Sched 80 bulkheads (stronger than the flimsy ABS ones), as well as Unions to easily disconnect the filters without stressing the bulkheads. Bulkreefsupply seems to have the best prices for those things.

Question - Are the Sched 80 bulkheads wider than the ABS ones? I think this could be a problem... I am reading 1 1/2" for the cheapos, and 1 5/8" for the Sched 80. Not a big difference, but could require some drilling, which might not be a good idea since it could crack the epoxy coating. Thoughts?


----------



## 2in10

Yes the sched 80 are larger and I think you are right on drilling causing a problem with the epoxy. I think installing unions is a great idea that you will not regret.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks for confirming... Need to ponder that a bit longer. Perhaps I will keep and silicone the bulkheads into the holes, since the gaskets don't work that well with the slightly bumpy epoxy layer. And yes, the unions might be a good investment.

I just realized it's AQUARIUMIVERSERY!!!

Two years ago I started to stick the first plants into this tank.

After two years it's now also stocked with fish (thanks to Hyzer - hope you are having a great trip my friend!):

16 Cardinals (with stripes so bright they are BLINDING!)
8 Black Neons (who really like the filter currents - remind me of tuna for some reason)
4 Harlequins
4 Peppered Corys
4 Glolight Tetras
1 Black Skirt (thriving on a healthy diet of baby cherry shrimp)
1 Rubberlip Pleco (does a great job keeping the front glass clean!)

Apart from that, I still have my 8 or 9 Beckfordi Pencils, 4 WC minnows, 2 Yoyos, 2 Afr. Butterfly Fish, 1 False Flying Fox, and 6-8 Otos. Plus about 10 Amano shrimp, and about 10000 Cherry shrimp.


----------



## 2in10

Congrats on the anniversary and new fish. I have found that all fish seem to color up wonderfully in a planted tank. Rummynose and Lemon tetras look awesome in planted tanks.


----------



## 150EH

Wow Wasser they are way cheaper than flex pvc .com, more than half and I watched the video and although abs is the most popular he said after a couple of years the gaskets tend to fail and the threaded pipe also splits, the schedule 80 are the way to go for sure, plus the video is dead on with your problem.

I'm not trying to scare ya but next summer is a long time to wait to do this repair, enough said and good luck.

I have a RO/DI unit coming from them Monday but it might be a month before I get it all installed.


----------



## magma

Amazing growth! I bet the fish must be thinking this is like home away from home.


----------



## Wasserpest

150EH said:


> Wow Wasser they are way cheaper than flex pvc .com, more than half and I watched the video and although abs is the most popular he said after a couple of years the gaskets tend to fail and the threaded pipe also splits, the schedule 80 are the way to go for sure, plus the video is dead on with your problem.
> 
> I'm not trying to scare ya but next summer is a long time to wait to do this repair, enough said and good luck.


Yeah, but... the problem is that the Sched 80 are fatter than the ABS. I am not sure there is enough play for them to fit through the existing holes (don't remember which hole saw I used). Looks like the ABS 3/4 require 1 1/3" holes, while the PVC ones need 1 5/8" holes. The risk to crack the Epoxy if attempting to drill them out further is too high for my liking.

For now, I am planning to completely remove the gaskets and just silicone the bulkheads back into the openings. I feel that this will prevent leaks better than just using a gasket (at least for my non-perfect surface, with glass it's a different story).


----------



## audioaficionado

You could just silicone the bottom of the gasket to the uneven surface and let the bulkhead fitting seal the gasket top surface. Easier to remove bulkhead fitting someday if needed.


----------



## 150EH

BRS did mention the hole size difference, in hind sight do you think it would have made a better seal if a schedule 80 bulkhead was installed after the first coat of epoxy and then apply any remaining coats and permanently seal the bulkhead fitting to the tank?

Can you tell if the wood has been damaged anywhere?


----------



## Wasserpest

audioaficionado said:


> You could just silicone the bottom of the gasket to the uneven surface and let the bulkhead fitting seal the gasket top surface. Easier to remove bulkhead fitting someday if needed.


I do not trust the bond between gaskets and silicone. There is some good adhesion of silicone to plastic as well as epoxy... so if I silicone, the gasket will not be used. After all, silicone itself is a great gasket. If I need to remove the plumbing one day, I am certain that with a bit of elbow grease the bulkhead will come out.

One question would be if it would make sense to invest in new bulkheads if they deteriorate/fail/split over time. $40 for some peace of mind?




150EH said:


> BRS did mention the hole size difference, in hind sight do you think it would have made a better seal if a schedule 80 bulkhead was installed after the first coat of epoxy and then apply any remaining coats and permanently seal the bulkhead fitting to the tank?
> 
> Can you tell if the wood has been damaged anywhere?


I should have used Sched 80 bulkheads to start with. Back when I built the tank, the least expensive ones were about $15, three times as much as the ABS cheapos. Apparently the better ones come with beefier gaskets too which would make a difference for a plywood tank.

I haven't seen any damage to wood, no swelling etc. Hopefully any moisture between the bulkhead and the wood dripped out or got soaked up without issues. It's hard to tell with the double plywood bottom that this tank has (after all I can't just unscrew the bulkhead... I would drown. Will find out one day when I drain the beast, hopefully it stays dry until then. I hope it was just a temporary dislodging of the gasket, and once I stopped pulling, it got back to keeping the water in the tank.

When I built the tank one of the bulkheads leaked (not this one), and I ended up siliconing it into the hole. Should probably have done that with all of them.


----------



## 150EH

I think it would be worth it if your going to all that trouble anyway, and I'm guessing 3/4" is less likely to fail than a 1.5" bulkhead on a saltwater tank with some huge pump pushing 5,040 gph. 

I checked their site and that pump is for real, 5,040 gph????

Yes, lets have a moment of silence for "dry".


----------



## 150EH

I was reading back through this journal and I have a few questions for you, that should be easier to answer after 2 years.

1. How do you feel about the height and depth of the tank, it was 30" deep and 28" tall, right?

2. How much area did you leave for the glass and wood to overlap and apply the silicone seal?

3. I also love the overflow and the auto fill, anything you would change here?

4. Is there any changes you would make to the lighting, more wattage, layout, fans, etc.

I still plan on this and mull over the things I want to do slightly different on a daily basis.


----------



## Wasserpest

150EH said:


> I was reading back through this journal and I have a few questions for you, that should be easier to answer after 2 years.


Great questions, and thanks for taking the time to read this long-ish thread! 
_
1. How do you feel about the height and depth of the tank, it was 30" deep and 28" tall, right?_

I still think it is perfect for my situation. I constructed the stand/tank for me to be able to reach down all the way in front without having to get a ladder. To get to the bottom back I just pull up a kitchen chair and my sleeve. :wink:

Keep in mind I am 6.2 tall, if I was say 5ft tall things would be a bit different.

The 30" depth is just enough to get a good separation between fore-mid-background. When looking into a water-filled tank it always appears much shallower than it is in reality.
_
2. How much area did you leave for the glass and wood to overlap and apply the silicone seal?_

There is 1" overlap all around. Other folks use 1.5", but I didn't see the point in increasing the frame size/cutting more of the viewing area. Also, the glass is resting on a bottom ledge (with a generous silicone gap) so there are no heavy forces pulling down on the silicone bond between glass and epoxy.
_
3. I also love the overflow and the auto fill, anything you would change here?_

I think this works pretty well. The overflow works as a surface skimmer too. One issue is that sometimes algae or leaves get sucked in and hang over the top of the overflow, acting like a wick. Most overflows are constructed the other way around to prevent that sort of thing, but the surface skimming is something I would not want to give up. 
_
4. Is there any changes you would make to the lighting, more wattage, layout, fans, etc._

The wattage is more than enough... I run 3 bulbs from noon to 10 pm, and the other 3 are added from 3 to 7 pm. Number-wise that seems kinda low for the size, but wattage needs don't grow proportionally with tank volume.

I wish the area where the tank sits would be 8ft, then I would do a split canopy. Lifting up the whole thing is not an easy task, even though it is constructed out of 1/4" plywood and 1x3's. 

Originally I had it planned as an open canopy, but that didn't work out and I added some splash-guard acrylic sheets. Once you are up to that size, those get pretty expensive. I wish there was a better (cheaper) solution, and some easier way to remove and clean them, but with the way the whole cabinet is built in that's what I got...

There are four fans pulling air out, I think two would probably have been sufficient... but it's not a big deal. I run them at ~7 Volts (rather than 12) so they don't draw much wattage and don't make that much noise.


----------



## audioaficionado

Hey just bumpin' this awesome thread to see if any new updates or observations have happened in the last few months.


----------



## Hyzer

audioaficionado said:


> Hey just bumpin' this awesome thread to see if any new updates or observations have happened in the last few months.


Seconded


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks guys, and sorry for semi-abandoning this. Things are going well, the fish seem happy, and the plants... well I need to put a For Sale sign up again.

On a related note... The tank is still a joy to look at. However, once something is working well for a couple of years, it becomes much less interesting and exciting. I guess that's human... As they say, it's the journey, not the destination... I need some (reasonable) challenges to remain 100% interested and dedicated.

A huge giant tank like this had always been my dream since I was a kid. Now that I have it - nice, checked off the list, so to speak. 

I have thought about things to do to this tank. Throwing out the T5's and replacing them with LEDs would be an interesting project, but it doesn't make much sense since the T5's are working so well. It would probably reduce the heat and wattage a bit, but not enough to really ever recoup the initial investment. 

Anyway... please excuse the lack of new pictures, check out some of the older ones. And feel free to ask any questions (plywood related or not).


----------



## audioaficionado

You could install some xenon strobes to simulate lightning :icon_mrgr


----------



## Wasserpest

Hrmmm. I guess along with the daily water change!  :icon_bigg

I DID recently change the Christmas tree LED night light to a nice SMD LED strip that makes the tank & fish look magical once the main lights go off... So it's not like I am not tinkering.


----------



## GMYukonon24s

That's one sweet tank.


----------



## Wasserpest

I was asked to post some pics of the fish, so I dropped in a Repashy-gel-covered piece of wood and started shooting.










The Yoyos are there first.










The Flying Fox is next in line.










Now it's everybody elses turn.










Amanos have some finely tuned noses and want their bit as well. Click on the picture for best quality.










Everyone whittles away on the chow.










Looks somewhat crowded... but it is a large tank.


----------



## 150EH

Sweet, they really like that food, I have yet to try it on my tank that is.


----------



## newday3000

Those are the best macro photos I have seen in A very long time. Amazing photos


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## audioaficionado

I've been wanting to try out the Repashy line. I haven't figured out which ones to get yet. When I have the bux in hand, I'll PM Rachel for her opinion.

Awesome shots roud:


----------



## Hyzer

:icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr.... so legit. Thank you for posting!

Those look like some happy fish.


----------



## Wasserpest

150EH said:


> Sweet, they really like that food, I have yet to try it on my tank that is.


It's really an interesting concept... like it better than the usual dry stuff that makes a big mess, and puts slower feeders at a disadvantage.



newday3000 said:


> Those are the best macro photos I have seen in A very long time. Amazing photos


Thank you! :fish:



audioaficionado said:


> I've been wanting to try out the Repashy line. I haven't figured out which ones to get yet. When I have the bux in hand, I'll PM Rachel for her opinion.
> 
> Awesome shots roud:


Thanks! The powder isn't cheap, but goes a long way.



Hyzer said:


> :icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr.... so legit. Thank you for posting!
> 
> Those look like some happy fish.


They are! Here are some more Cardinals. You asked, you got it! :smile:










Still all complete!










A few seconds later, the pencil girl started to "clean" the Peppered Cory. Made me lol. Likes her food spicy.


----------



## Hyzer

Wow they are looking so good. Do you see the Corys much or do they get lost in the jungle most of the time?


----------



## Wasserpest

Yeah... although they are not shy, they usually hang towards the back of the tank. Unless it's feeding time!


----------



## hydrophyte

Those are awesome fish pictures!


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Wow, what body and lens on these shots?!


----------



## Wasserpest

Thank you! I am using a 60D with the kit lens.


----------



## jart

I think I am most impressed with the color on those rasboras,

I find pencils aren't for sale around here often, but in the future I'll keep my eyes open for them


----------



## dantra

Those are some fine looking fish you got there. Your shots of them are amazing.

Dan


----------



## chad320

Do you ever have any problems out of your Flying Fox? i had one that was a jerk and ran around all day beating up the other fish. I finally had to get rid of him. I really like them and how active they are, I just need a nice one


----------



## Wasserpest

I had one that was an angel. Scrubbing algae all day, playing with friends, swimming in circles to fight hyperactivity. After seven or eight years it died, and I got another one. Still a good algae scrubber, but this one is very much after fish food as well. Little pig, if you ask me.

Other than that, no problems. Sure there is some chasing once in a while, but there are too many little fishies around, and the Yoyos don't let themselves bully at all.

They get pretty large, and are bundles of energy. I imagine that they could turn somewhat aggressive in smaller tanks.


----------



## Wasserpest

Not much to report, so I'll share a few weird shots...










I like feeding a variety of things. Some of my willows got overrun with aphids (and ants), interesting food for some fish. 










Bolbitis and Anubias are attaching to the back, and slowly start to grow up and out.










I guess they are thinking - Can't beat the light and CO2 up here!










This is a night-light shot... the Cardinals are still charged, so their blue stripes illuminate the tank almost as much as the LEDs do.


----------



## robb.ferg

what is the tall grass plant growing in the center?


----------



## Da Plant Man

Beautiful. When I get my own house, I want a tank as mature as yours.


----------



## Wasserpest

robb.ferg said:


> what is the tall grass plant growing in the center?


It is Crinum calamistratum. I wish it wasn't right in the center... but when you plant a small plant, sometimes you don't realize it will dominate the place two years later.



Da Plant Man said:


> Beautiful. When I get my own house, I want a tank as mature as yours.


Thanks C!


----------



## FWKiller

Beautiful, beautiful. I have spent a lot of time staring at the pictures, I would flat lose myself in the tank itself.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I love coming back to look through this journal. It's like a Where's Waldo? for finding hidden plant gems.

Love the feeding shots, too, because they really illustrate the intelligence of your larger fish. Maybe I'm mistaken but it appears that you can see their personality coming out.


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks guys, for taking the time to read through this adventure!

I am pretty stingy when it comes to camera lenses, my "kit" lenses do well enough for me. However, recently I splurged on a more expensive addition, and although it is probably the worst one for taking fish (and people!!) shots, I had to give it a try. Click on pic for best results.










:fish1: :smile:


----------



## Wasserpest

Haven't updated this in a while, because there is not much to report. Here is a recent FTS










And a closer look at the left side










where the Tiger Lotus provides a nice contrast to green Hygros and Crypts.

Really need to sell some plant mass...


----------



## UDGags

Looks awesome...really like the plant in the middle (don't know name).


----------



## scapegoat

That red tiger lotus is gorgeous


----------



## Wasserpest

Thanks guys! The Tiger Lotus goes through different periods, grows like crazy, then disappears, only to come back half a year later. The plant in the center is Crinum calamistratum. Sold a bunch of them daughter plants not so long ago.


----------



## JerSaint

Great thread! I LOVE your tank Wasserpest!


----------



## DogFish

Wasserpest said:


> ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks great. Would you post a full front shot?


----------



## Aquaticus

Amazing tank! I've always wanted a big plywood tank, but my wife thinks I'm crazy as it is.


----------



## awcoburn2

That tiger lotus is gorgeous.


----------



## wabisabi

Simply Awesome!


----------



## scapegoat

Wasserpest said:


> Thanks guys! The Tiger Lotus goes through different periods, grows like crazy, then disappears, only to come back half a year later. The plant in the center is Crinum calamistratum. Sold a bunch of them daughter plants not so long ago.


I've got one in my 20 long as well as a bulb that has sprouted. they're a bit too big of a plant for what I have going, but they're gorgeous. looking forward to them filling out like this... and its good to know they like to disappear and come back


----------



## Hyzer

Wasserpest said:


>


Still looking great! I don't remember the Lotus in this tank. Great contrast to the greens!


----------



## Wasserpest

Good to see you around my friend! Yep, that Lotus showed up from almost nowhere, and now I have bunch of them trying to take over. The leaves are so beautiful, it hurts to rip them off, but what are you gonna do... they shade out everything below them. The Alternanthera that used to be the red spot in the tank is long gone.










Wanted to update you on how your fishies are doing... not bad! The Black Neons have grown, especially the girls get fat on a good diet of Cherry shrimp.










Really like the Glowlights, very pretty, and kinda funny when they chase one of their own through the whole tank until you think that poor dude is going to keel over, then they switch their roles and the hunted becomes the hunter.










The false flying fox...



















And the Harlequins do well too.


----------



## scapegoat

Any chance you'd be selling clippings in a couple months? Or have a current plant list?

I love this tank and would love to emulate it


----------



## Wasserpest

Sure... about half a bucket of plants goes on the compost heap every other week. Some, like the Crinum, are slow to multiply. Others, like the Lotus, don't ship well. But shoot me a pm when you are ready and I will hook you up.


----------



## G0NZ0

your tank is incredible. I think the amount of patience you had planning everything out was well worth it. looking at your tank makes my 20 gallon look like a shame although i just got started. If you have any advice or cool plants you have found along the way please pass the infortmation on! Great job!


----------



## scapegoat

Wasserpest said:


> Sure... about half a bucket of plants goes on the compost heap every other week. Some, like the Crinum, are slow to multiply. Others, like the Lotus, don't ship well. But shoot me a pm when you are ready and I will hook you up.


that would be excellent. I was wanting to go with a african (dwarf cichlid) biotope but I'm finding I don't enjoy working with anubias. Your tank caught both my eye and my wife's and I think something similar would make an excellent center piece to our basement.

I have two of those lotus' already, so no worries shipping them 

your tank looks like a lush alien jungle, it's really awesome.


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## Wasserpest

Couple more fish pix... trying to figure out which framing looks best.










Just a simple black frame, with same gradual fade?










Or something more elaborate, with shadow and all?










Sprayed strokes?










Oh, fish, yeah... Guess why this one is so fat? Mid-sized Cherries nightmare! Although the lonely Black Skirt is even more gluttonous when it comes to shrimp.


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## rustbucket

Love this tank, very elegant. Is the depth hard to maintain at all?

The first frame is my fave, more emphasis on the fish, cleaner look.


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## Wasserpest

Thanks rustbucket! :smile:

A 10 gallon tank is somewhat easier to maintain. :wink: I dimensioned this tank to be able to reach down all the way in front (tippy-toeing, when cleaning the front glass). To plant or un-plant further in the back or middle, I have to use a chair, and pull my sleeves up a bit. But no wet armpits. I guess long pincers/scissors would help, but I prefer to use fingers/fingernails for 'scaping.


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## Mumford

Wasserpest said:


> Thanks guys, for taking the time to read through this adventure!
> 
> I am pretty stingy when it comes to camera lenses, my "kit" lenses do well enough for me. However, recently I splurged on a more expensive addition, and although it is probably the worst one for taking fish (and people!!) shots, I had to give it a try. Click on pic for best results.
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What kind of fish is that??

Tanks nice 


- Mumford


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## All your base

This is spooky, I'm involved in building a system that has some striking similarities and somehow I've totally missed this thread to date! Gonna go read it all now.  Woohoo, my tank has a twin!


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## scapegoat

Soup12 said:


> is the dwarf red tiger lotus smaller? maybe u can use that in your 20 instead


it will eventually be in my 125, so it's not a big deal. the guy just like to grow huge pads and cover everything. just need to keep trimming at this point


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## Wasserpest

Mumford said:


> What kind of fish is that??
> 
> Tanks nice
> 
> 
> - Mumford


That's a "False Flying Fox", aka False Siamese Algae Eater. Nothing false about it! roud:



All your base said:


> This is spooky, I'm involved in building a system that has some striking similarities and somehow I've totally missed this thread to date! Gonna go read it all now.  Woohoo, my tank has a twin!


Got journal?


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## All your base

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=293842

First few years of it's life were as a reef, I am just beginning a conversion to FW planted. We started around the same time, both are plywood, very large, somewhat atypical dimensions, heavily DIY, some degree of DIY electronics for controlling/monitoring, "passive" overflow auto-water change system, and you've even got similar stocking to what I'm going to aim for. And I'm about to tear out the drywall below the tank to do built-in shelving similar to what you have. I'm only a couple pages in so who knows, there may be more similarities!


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## Wasserpest

Mountains of Sawdust! I need to take some time to read that slowly, including the build journal on RC. Very interesting, your reasons to go to a FW tank. The dimensions provide a lot of potential if you can reach everything.


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## All your base

Honestly I've given up on easily reaching everything. I keep two folding step ladders in a closet next to the tank, but even then reaching to the bottom pretty much means taking my shirt off. It's a price I'm willing to pay for the 3-dimensionality you get from a tank this size, to be honest. It's one of the "bad things" about this tank that bugs me the least.

How do you like the black background? Mine is white. So at least in that way our systems are opposites.


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## Wasserpest

Black background works for me, I think it adds to the perception of depth. Most of it is now covered with mosses and Bolbitis/Java Ferns anyway.

It is also low maintenance - you won't see diatoms and other algae growing on it. With a white background, not sure if you had to scrub it every so often, or if it would look a dirty if you don't.

Your tank is definitely more high-tech in some ways, advanced LED lighting, strong pump, etc.


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## All your base

As a reef the walls are encrusted with coralline algae so no matter what color the actual surface is it looks purple. The reef ran clean enough that it stayed more or less nice, I don't think I've cleaned the glass in two or three months at least and when I do, it's just to prevent coralline or other encrusting life from taking over, there's pretty much zero film algae.

I'm toying with the idea of painting it black while it's empty but it would be awkward since the white color exists under the silicone that holds the glass in place.

How long did the moss and fern take to cover the walls? That sounds pretty cool. Every planted tank I've had prior has been glass and I've always cleaned all the walls, never thought about letting something grow on them purposely.


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## Wasserpest

Yep, if you used clear silicone you will always see some of the white. Same issue here - if I ever redo this or start a similar project, I will definitely use black silicone for the glass.

It took about a year before the moss really took hold on the epoxy: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1219041&postcount=321

Right now I am placing Anubias in the back near the top so it grabs on to the back and grows out of the water. Looks nice (when opening the tank), but if I ever pull it off there is a chance that it will pull off the epoxy paint layer and destroy the tank. Just something to remember. If you have several layers of "real" epoxy it shouldn't be a problem.


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## Wasserpest

As mentioned previously, I struggled with the invasion of the Red Tiger Lotus. Beautiful plants, but tend to explode, and cover up the whole tank. 










If you are disciplined - constantly remove leaves, and leave about 3 or 4, you can keep them under control for a while. As you can see, I did not do that... 
So, I removed all of the large leaves. There are still plenty of small leaves everywhere, so just a matter of time before they are back.

Taking a shot from above isn't easy with this tank... I can't tilt the canopy up all the way, so the bulbs always reflect. Still, gives you a good idea on how the RTL covers up the aquarium. Tells you also a bit about my lights... 2 pinkish bulbs in the back, two 6500K in the middle, and 2 5000K in front. The P&S camera I used tends to exaggerate the hues a bit, the bulbs are not really that blue and yellow.


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## Hyzer

Wasserpest said:


> Good to see you around my friend! Yep, that Lotus showed up from almost nowhere, and now I have bunch of them trying to take over. The leaves are so beautiful, it hurts to rip them off, but what are you gonna do... they shade out everything below them. The Alternanthera that used to be the red spot in the tank is long gone.
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Wow! They are looking so healthy! Thank you for posting.

It's remarkable how your plants go through cycles in this tank. Definitely adds to the natural feel.

Still brewing and grilling???


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## Wasserpest

Yep, just brewed a pale ale last weekend, garage smells heavenly now. :bounce: 
Got some sausages in the freezer... ready when you are.


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## Adam.Perrault

Any updates on this beauty?


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## harsaphes

Amazing. Any "how to's" anywhere on building a plywood tank?
Thanks.


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## hydrophyte

I was just wondering about this tank. I have started building a 165G plywood vivarium enclosure.


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## lauraleellbp

+1

DEFINITELY time for an update, Thomas! :smile:


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## Wasserpest

lauraleellbp said:


> +1
> 
> DEFINITELY time for an update, Thomas! :smile:


Hey Laura, wow, time flies! Almost 5 years since I started this. There isn't much to update - still producing a lot of bio mass, equipment is working well, fish seem happy and healthy.

However, I have been toying with the idea to take it down. Why?

As someone famous once said, it's the journey, not the destination... While I still enjoy looking at it, we definitely have arrived at the destination, and the excitement about it is really gone. Perhaps generally my interest in planted tanks has been gradually fading. This is one reason.

Second reason, when it comes to wood and paint and water, time doesn't improve things, and while there are no leaks (yet), I am always a bit worried that I pull out an Anubias or Bolbitis with its roots attached to the epoxy paint, and some of the paint comes out with it. :icon_eek:

And finally, at some point I may move somewhere else, and selling or renting a place with a built-in 250gal fish tank is a bit too... hardcore? :biggrin:

Sooo... while it still looks great, it's days may be numbered. Thanks though to everyone who took part in the journey!


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## Crazy4discus

Beautiful tank and nice pics!


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## audioaficionado

Too bad you're 500 miles away or I'd take it off your hands.


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## lauraleellbp

The End of an Era. :icon_sad:

Sad, though I definitely understand.






Dibs on a lotus. :flick:


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## Wasserpest

It will be a few weeks - in the meantime I started to work on my "half full" 36 gal corner tank, adding some substrate, removed the giant lava rock in the center, plant-scaping to get it ready for some serious bio-load. Oversized filtration - good. Weekly water changes - yikes, will need to get used to that for a while. On the other hand, that's only like two water buckets to do a 50% WC.

Laura - you can definitely have one of the TL's, just send me a pm. They ship extremely bad, but the bulb should do ok. I need to have a closer look at the Crinum cal. to see if it has grown a bunch of daughters in the meantime. These are really nice plants for larger tanks.


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## Hyzer

Wasserpest said:


> It will be a few weeks - in the meantime I started to work on my "half full" 36 gal corner tank, adding some substrate, removed the giant lava rock in the center, plant-scaping to get it ready for some serious bio-load. Oversized filtration - good. Weekly water changes - yikes, will need to get used to that for a while. On the other hand, that's only like two water buckets to do a 50% WC.


Excited to see what you do with the corner tank! What you were able to do with a moderate amount of light in that tank always impressed me. Carpets in a couple weeks and whatnot. Hope all is well my friend.


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## lauraleellbp

Hey Thomas, a guy in my local aquarium club is considering building a plywood tank, and I just directed him to this thread.

Now that you've had tons of time to enjoy/troubleshoot/use hindsight; is there anything you would have done differently with this build?


(and I'm going to hit you up for that lotus soon as I get some water in my 25gal QT...)


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## KDS

Wow, great tank! I'm the guy lauraleellbp directed to this thread. I clearly have a lot of reading to do but I'd love any advice you might have. This is my first post here by the way. Love this site!


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## Wasserpest

Hyzer said:


> Excited to see what you do with the corner tank! What you were able to do with a moderate amount of light in that tank always impressed me. Carpets in a couple weeks and whatnot. Hope all is well my friend.


Hi there K, hope all is well with you too. Need to chat a bit about personal things. :wink: Just about to start brewing an Oktoberfest!
This tank is great for growing Mini-Pellia! But a bunch of others that do great in the big tank don't like it here. It is interesting how you can have two tanks pretty much side by side, and small differences in light, nutrients, water changes etc result in totally different scapes. 



lauraleellbp said:


> Hey Thomas, a guy in my local aquarium club is considering building a plywood tank, and I just directed him to this thread.
> 
> Now that you've had tons of time to enjoy/troubleshoot/use hindsight; is there anything you would have done differently with this build?
> 
> (and I'm going to hit you up for that lotus soon as I get some water in my 25gal QT...)





KDS said:


> Wow, great tank! I'm the guy lauraleellbp directed to this thread. I clearly have a lot of reading to do but I'd love any advice you might have. This is my first post here by the way. Love this site!


Hey guys, and thanks for posting here first!  There was a summary I did a few pages into this thread, I'll re-read the whole thing and find it. Here is one post with a few pointers: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1584068&postcount=415

Two small things that come to mind: Use black silicone to glue in the front glass (clear silicone transmits light...) And spray-painting the visible PVC parts in black looks good for the first years, but then the paint starts to peel off, and those white fittings for the overflow for ex are definitely an eyesore. Not sure if there are black Sched 40 parts available. Or something better than the spray paint that I used. Perhaps coating them with Sweetwater epoxy would have been the best solution.


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## silentdave

Awesome tank. I've dyed PVC before using this method ( http://www.naraddyes.com/serv02.htm ). You can find the dye on ebay. It's cheap, easy , and works. It's been in the tank for years now with no issues.


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## Wasserpest

Finally had some time to search, here is the post I was thinking of. That was very early on, so not too valuable.

In hindsight, with water-filled wooden boxes, the most important thing is to keep the water inside. And in that respect, two things are crucial - the epoxy layer, and the plumbing. If I had to do things over, I would have searched a bit more for proven solutions (like fiber glass, West System epoxy, combined with the Sweetwater paint). For plumbing, I would not have trusted the bulkhead gaskets (which are fine for glass surfaces) and instead just siliconed the plastic into the holes, very simple and durable solution.

I am going to post a couple of final pictures soon. Selling off the plants now, relocating the fish, and then, well, turning off the switch. :icon_sad: I will keep the glass around for a possible future tank in a future home. Focusing on my 36 gal corner tank for now. Need to automate that water change! :smile:


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## Wasserpest

I had always dreamed of a huge planted tank, made it reality, enjoyed it thoroughly for 5 years, and then took it down. If I had to do it all over I would have done the same thing, it's just worth the experience to have your face staring into 250 gallons of water from above, feel the warmth and humidity, smell the plants, listen to the humming of the pumps, getting wet armpits... well that one I could do without.










This is one of the last photos I took before I started to sell of the plants. (On another note, I got rid of my DSLR and switched to a tiny mirrorless... the results are actually quite decent, I must say).

What I learned during takedown... The Sweetwater epoxy paint layer was in great shape, I am sure it could have done another 5 years, easily. Even ripping off well established Bolbitis and Anubias did not separate the paint from the wood. So that combo (described in detail during the first posts) worked very well.

Another interesting thing was that when I took out the substrate, the peat layer that I had underneath was pretty much gone. Mineralized, I suppose? Decomposed? I dunno, but the layers worked very well anyway.

It is now an empty piece of furniture, not really sure what to do with it yet, but no rush. My latest energy bill went down to $70 (from ~ 110). Mostly that large of a difference because it took out most of my tier 3 (expensive) usage. That's a plus.

The fish moved to my 36 gal tank and are doing quite well. Plants are growing great too, but of course now I don't have to throw out a bucket full of them every other week. A smaller tank can be just as enjoyable, really.

That's all folks... thanks to those who read all of this, and especially those who participated in this thread.


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## Fishermike

Just want to say, thank you for sharing this with us. A really cool build/journey!


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## Wasserpest

You are welcome, and thanks! 

Taking out the huge Crinum calamistratum. Wonderful plant, which flowered a couple of times for me.


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## doggo

Thanks for a fascinating journey :smile:


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## Hyzer

Such an amazing tank! Wish I had a chance to come out there again to see it. I'm sure you've got some sort of project "brewing", planted tank or not.:icon_mrgr


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## katrenco

*Wow!*

I'm a few yrs late to the party, but it was COOL anyway....(even the tiny tear when it ended)!


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## Wasserpest

Awwww... Thanks for posting your first post here. I feel honored. 

Yeah, sometimes I miss the beast. Best moments were probably when I raised the cover, and hung my head over the warm water surface, nose tip wet, staring down at the little tropical world below.

Little story about time and persistence...
When I took down the big tank, I moved the fish (loads of them) into a 36gal corner tank. There was one big old but healthy Yoyo loach left, the last of a band of three, who, I felt, was too big for that little overstocked collection. By then (2014) he (let's say it was a he) was over 11 years old. What to do? Didn't know anyone with an aquarium in the area, taking him to the LFS seemed ridiculous, and flushing my pet would have felt awful. It was summer, so he got a big new home... my garden pond. Perhaps just as cruel, as temps go down in Winter, some years the pond freezes over, for a few hours at least. 
Anyway, out of sight, out of mind... last fall (2016) I thought I saw something wriggling in my pond. And believe it or not, there was Yoyo, roaming around between the water lily pots. I swear he grew a bit too! Yoyo is now perhaps 14 or 15 years old (not sure how old they were when I got them in 2003) and still roams around in the garden pond, molesting his friend Pao (a goldfish someone dropped off in a bag 10 years ago) and apparently not very much minding the seasonal cold spell.

Thanks for reading...


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## PEdwards

That's a sweet story WP! Glad to hear Yoyo is still doing well.


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## whickerda

Such a cool story about Yoyo.


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## Wasserpest

Just checking in to report that Yoyo is still alive and well after two more Winters in the pond! Now he must be 16 or 17 years old. Wow.
The pond has a hole though, visible on a very nice root that almost looks like a coral. Not sure about that.

Noticed that all hosted pictures are now overlaid by a huge watermark. Thanks bucket, I guess free is free, but "Proudly", nah.



Wasserpest said:


> Awwww... Thanks for posting your first post here. I feel honored.
> 
> Yeah, sometimes I miss the beast. Best moments were probably when I raised the cover, and hung my head over the warm water surface, nose tip wet, staring down at the little tropical world below.
> 
> Little story about time and persistence...
> When I took down the big tank, I moved the fish (loads of them) into a 36gal corner tank. There was one big old but healthy Yoyo loach left, the last of a band of three, who, I felt, was too big for that little overstocked collection. By then (2014) he (let's say it was a he) was over 11 years old. What to do? Didn't know anyone with an aquarium in the area, taking him to the LFS seemed ridiculous, and flushing my pet would have felt awful. It was summer, so he got a big new home... my garden pond. Perhaps just as cruel, as temps go down in Winter, some years the pond freezes over, for a few hours at least.
> Anyway, out of sight, out of mind... last fall (2016) I thought I saw something wriggling in my pond. And believe it or not, there was Yoyo, roaming around between the water lily pots. I swear he grew a bit too! Yoyo is now perhaps 14 or 15 years old (not sure how old they were when I got them in 2003) and still roams around in the garden pond, molesting his friend Pao (a goldfish someone dropped off in a bag 10 years ago) and apparently not very much minding the seasonal cold spell.
> 
> Thanks for reading...


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## aidanw

Amazing read, thanks for the update on yoyo


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## KayakJimW

Wow, thanks for bumping this up WP. Just read thru all 500 posts, what an epic thread! Thanks for all the good info


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## Wasserpest

aidanw said:


> Amazing read, thanks for the update on yoyo





KayakJimW said:


> Wow, thanks for bumping this up WP. Just read thru all 500 posts, what an epic thread! Thanks for all the good info


Thanks guys, for spending the time to read through this story. I should turn this into a book. :nerd:

Oh and I didn't even realize that I bumped this with post #500. That's almost like a aquariummiversary!


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## Hyzer

Wasserpest said:


> Thanks guys, for spending the time to read through this story. I should turn this into a book. :nerd:
> 
> Oh and I didn't even realize that I bumped this with post #500. That's almost like a aquariummiversary!


I'd buy the book. Glad to hear Yoyo is still around!


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## Wasserpest

Just my yearly check-in - the Yoyo loach is still doing great in the big outdoor tank. Celebrated its happy 17th birthday in the pond with Pao, the goldfish, a bunch of mosquito fish, two water skeeters, and some thirsty wasps and bees.
Every year I get a slight scare when I see something wiggle around, since I forget it's in there...
Pretty amazing considering that the temps drop to near freezing in some Winters.


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## Wasserpest

Another year has passed, Spring has sprung, temps are up, and guess who is sleeping with the fishies?










First I was a bit shocked, but then I remembered that Yoyo's like to sleep on their side (or back!).










Snore... that filter pipe is humming, makes me so sleeeeepy.










11 am... time to wake up? Nah... not yet.

Funny how deeply they sleep, with their eyes open. Normally I would not have a chance to see or capture Yoyo like this, but I guess I caught it in a lucky moment. 

Happy 18th birthday (at least)!! 🎁🎆🎈


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## jinx©

Good to see this tank, as well as yourself, are still going well after all these years my friend


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## Wasserpest

jinx© said:


> Good to see this tank, as well as yourself, are still going well after all these years my friend


Haha, good to see you are still around as well. Alas, the tank is no more, ol' Yoyo just hangs out in the pond.
I may do another tank like that in the future, but who knows. For now, all I have left is the 36g corner tank.


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