# Trim damaged leaves off Java Fern?



## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Good question, I've not read anything about the flow issue, but I've ready conflicting reports about java fern's brown spots. Some people have suggested that this is where baby plantlets grow and others have suggested that it is evidence of nutrient insufficiency (which seems to mean that if you increase the missing chemical it would reverse itself)...I'm curious to hear what others say about this and if there is any consensus about it at all...


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

All my ferns have little plantletts growing out of the black spots.


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## Asty (Mar 12, 2007)

Hmm...maybe it isn't the brown spots that bother me as much as the "crinkley-looking" leaves. I don't know what is causing that...looks like old-age wrinkles.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

My java ferns get those dead leaves, usually when I first get them or move to a new tank. If I just wait it out for a month or two (sloooow growing), it will start growing new plantlets at the brown/black spots.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

nitrogen overdose perhaps... You can tell when the veins turn black too.


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## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

so once the plantlet grows up and away, we're left with a whole in our java fern leaf?


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

yep, the new plantlet leaves a hole in most cases but with me I have noticed that if one leaf starts growing the little plantlets soon after the whole leaf is filled with little plants.


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## Asty (Mar 12, 2007)

I am really just trying to find out why it hasn't grown in a month that I have had it. I also think I am just over-worrying about it since growth in my tank is just slow, and the java fern looks the worst.

My anacharis isn't growing much either, but it kept getting knocked out of the substrate (fixed with plant disks over a week ago), and finally has stem-roots that have grown and anchored it in too (just a day or two ago they reached bottom).

My water wisteria and water sprites are growing, slowly. I need to take new pictures to get some expert opinions.

I hear others are trimming every week or two, but I am not having that "problem".

Tank Params:
90 gallon
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
20-40 Nitrates
>3 Phosphates
216w T5 HO lighting
Pressurized CO2 - enough to get 5dKH drop checker to green.

Dosing 1 Tsp Potassium and 1/2 Tsp CSM+B on alternate days. Flourish Iron with the CSM. I think I am going to up the Potassium a bit again.
Just started the past week dosing Mg, first shot was a tbsp...then 3 days later a tsp.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*hmmm*



eklikewhoa said:


> yep, the new plantlet leaves a hole in most cases but with me I have noticed that if one leaf starts growing the little plantlets soon after the whole leaf is filled with little plants.


eklikewhoa,
It makes me question if there is anyway that we can prevent that from happening. I'm not a big fan of how java ferns propagate through that method. With the regular species, my experience has always been that as soon as it starts to grow REALLy well, and is bright green and bushy, BAM! these black spots appear and baby plantlets grow. I'm wondering are there any specific varieties of java fern (narrow-leaf for example) that don't do this? I never did decide what to do when this happens other than trim off the leaves, but what do you do when its happening to the whole plant?!


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

mistergreen said:


> nitrogen overdose perhaps... You can tell when the veins turn black too.


Been having some issues like this. Figured I wasn't doing enough maintenance. It's like a black blight, sucks. If this is a true sign then I have been over dosing NO3, again. 

I was culling leaves on a regular basis and only let one leaf per rhizome produce plantlets. Created a strong cycle of new growth opening up the stand culling older leaves. Once this bi annual maintenance didn't happen it's been a struggle with black vein even on fresh growth.


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## Asty (Mar 12, 2007)

Maybe it is high nitrogen, although I have read enough posts on Java Fern to see people have success with them in junk water as well.

My nitrAtes run a bit high, probably due to my overfeeding habits, around 20-40...although I don't get black veins on the j ferns, just brown-black patches that rot away.

I just got a giant java fern from the LFS this week and it is already slightly crinkling and has a chip or two out of the leafs. Both are just tied to driftwood. No brown patches yet, although one leaf has brown spots, which from what I am understanding is "birth" spots (for new baby plants).


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## philoserenus (Jan 9, 2007)

here's my $0.02 on the java fern plantlets since i have bought the ferns. run ur nails along the underside of the leaf that u think are growing babies, if ur nail gets caught by something like a round bump, u have something there, if itz smooth (except the wrinkles of course) then its just a dying piece. 

if u clip the leaf, some will THEN start to grow babies b/c it's under stress and wants to propagate as a natural response. similar to some pine cones only opening up to release their seeds after an intense fire


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

philoserenus said:


> here's my $0.02 on the java fern plantlets since i have bought the ferns. run ur nails along the underside of the leaf that u think are growing babies, if ur nail gets caught by something like a round bump, u have something there, if itz smooth (except the wrinkles of course) then its just a dying piece.
> 
> if u clip the leaf, some will THEN start to grow babies b/c it's under stress and wants to propagate as a natural response. similar to some pine cones only opening up to release their seeds after an intense fire


But you have to keep it trimmed back at some point as well no doubt. An old leaf can still benefit for a while but at some point it has to go. I usually never picked one till another one or two were sprouting on the same area of the node.... With this black blight I've take off more leaves than I like so now I've resorted to trimming the roots more in hopes to keep the live material open to the light... Spawn some more leaf nodes... Wish me luck. 

Just finished picking back my moss and java fern stumps. Well see how things progress now if I can keep my CO2 up and the BBA out I'll be GTG.

I hear ya on the stress point but a slow methodical trim schedule helps.

The early plantlets do pick off easy if you don't want them to keep growing. But at that point the leaf has a few weeks at best.

Reduced the NO3 dose this round of WC but I did do some vacuuming so my water is probably out of whack. I'm going to do one more WC reset tomorrow just to clear up the messing around I did today...


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Well with my ferns only a few of the leaves get the black spots and plantlets but the rest of the plant is lush and green.


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## GhoSt knifE!! (Sep 23, 2006)

have u tryed adding more x3 potassium & x2 iron to your tank?? the dark spots{are they dense or transparent . the spots??}can reveal a nutrient defficencey.. also are they producing offspring? in the lower left hand corner of your plant u have a new plantlet how often do u get these?.... my java ferns produce new {babies every other day}:icon_lol: also try upping your fertlizer i use flourish every 3-4 days at 1 1/2 the recomended dose. you didnt say if you use carbon in your filter? unless your removing tanins or meds. carbon is defeating the purpose by removing organics which plants convert to food?


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