# Window sill shrimp tank idea



## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I was thinking of getting this vase and making it into a shrimp tank and have it sit on my window sill. Any opinions? Is it good, bad, not feasible?

It is 24" long 4" wide 4" deep. 
It would hold 1.6 us gallons. 

I would put a thin layer of sand on the bottom some moss maybe a crypt or some floating duckweed.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

beautiful tank dimensions but terrible location. It would not take long for the water in the tank to warm up under the UV rays. i wouldnt risk it... It would make for an awesome desk tank tho!!!


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Good point acitydweller. Although it only would get direct sun first thing in the morning for about 2 hours. Would that still be to much?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Try it empty (just water and plants, no shrimp) first and see what happens. Even if it doesn't get too hot, it might turn into an algae farm. It does look like a pretty neat "tank" idea though.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

You can always try it... Worse thing that could happen is that you have to move the tank. While it cycles check the temp through the day


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## CookieM (Feb 7, 2012)

It seem like a torture chamber =) Shrimp will have one hell of a time swimming all the way to the surface. If you can find a long enough driftwood it would be cool to see shrimp chilling on different height level. 

But yeah best not to put near window where the temps fluctuate throughout the day.


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## sportsfan2 (Jan 31, 2013)

I think he'd place it horizontally so the height of the tank is only 4 inches high. But yea the temp fluctuations would have to be dealt with. Really cool idea though!


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## Cyanider (Mar 1, 2013)

Where'd you even find a tank of those dimensions? Custom made?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I had the idea and google did the rest lol. 

http://www.save-on-crafts.com/longvase.html

As for the temp fluctuations. How much is unsafe? Are they that sensitive? In nature isn't there a certain amount of fluctuations naturaly. I'm not disagreeing just curious on what's a safe range for them.


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## hambone870 (Feb 13, 2013)

you'll never know if you dont just go for it

everyone can give you "opinions" on why or why not, but if you did start a journal on that, id read it

like someone said, you can always move it if temps are going wild or algae for that matter


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## etane (May 14, 2012)

I have two of the same type of vases but different dimension and use them as desktop nano tanks.

Here's a link to them.

Oh, I tried purchasing these from the same site but they were out of stock though the site doesn't indicate so. 

I ended up buying one from here and the other one here.

Oh, and I definitely keep mine away from the sun. Temperature fluctuations will kill my fishes and shrimps.

Although, I do suspect whether CPDs will survive. They are from very shallow rice paddies in Vietnam. I'd imagine it's cold at night and hot during the day there.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Nice footprint/dimensions!


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I found a glass company in town that will make the "vase" to the dimensions I want for 15 dollars. Tomorrow I'm going to get it made and I will update this thread as I go with pictures. 

I'm thinking a sand bottom for a substrate anyone have sugestions for substrate and plants?


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

I'd do shrimp, people do planted bowls. Why not this? It would look beautiful with duck weed over the surface or frogbit.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I just picked up the silicone and glass. 

Final dimensions of cut glass.
Glass thickness 1/8"
1ea. 24"L 4"w (base plate)
2ea. 24" 1/4 L 6" 1/2 w (long side walls)
2ea. 4" L 6" 1/8 w (short side walls)

(In US dollars) Glass cost $16. Included edge grinding to make handling safe. Silicone $5.99. Edging tape $2.99 
Total $25 with enough silicone and tape left over to make a dozen more. 

Online purchase of same item I'm making was $54 including shipping. 

Photos of materials and build forthcoming.


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## A.D.D.i.c.t. (Dec 9, 2012)

Sounds interesting. Subbed!


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Here's some pictures of the work. It gives a decent idea of how I did it. I wanted to take more pictures but I accidentally popped a hole in one of the tubes of silicone and it got messy quick. So I hope you get the jist if not ill answer any questions.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

More


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Another


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

It's all done they just need to cure for 48 hours before holding water. Once the silicone has cured ill do a water check on it clean it up then start laying down substrate and plants. 

I was thinking white sand. With one side clear but a few rocks then transition over to other side with some dwarf hair grass then into back 1/4 the "forest" with small drift wood pieces tied up with java moss. 

Although i haven't commited to it yet.


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## tumbleweedz (Mar 1, 2012)

It will be fun to watch the progression, good luck.


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## inthepacific (Oct 21, 2012)

i have a feeling that your tank is going to be algae ridden even with the shrimp in it. and with such a small size its going to warm up quite a bit just being in direct sunlight.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

What kind of silicone did you use? I'm trying to find one that is "aquarium safe" if not I'm going with the first one I can grab


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

GE silicone 1 is safe for aquarium use. Just remember to let it cure for a long time to be sure. Once the vinegar smell is gone then you are good. I waited a week or so to be completely sure. No problems since  GE 1 has no mold inhibitors; GE 2 does have them. Make sure you pick a silicone without mold inhibitors or you'll be in for a bad day haha


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

If there is a petco or petsmart near you they sell it if not any hardware store has 100 percen silicone. Just make sure it doesn't have any mildew resistant properties. The kitchen and bath silicone is bad don't use it. I used a kind that had aquarium safe lable. The GE type I or II is good but no one had it around me.


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## Cyanider (Mar 1, 2013)

I saw some at Petco yesterday, you should try there. It was near the siphons and dechlorinator bottles. 

Also, what did you search for to find the glass place? And is it low-iron glass, or just regular?


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

They also have one in home depot. I can't remember what its called, but its green and says right on the front aquarium safe in big yellow letters.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I just googled window repair for my town, make sure you call more than one store. First guy I called quoted $35 the next two qouted $15. It's normal window glass. All mass produced small glass tanks are just regular plain window glass. The rule for thickness is a base 1/16th" then another 1/16th for every 2 feet of hight. I used 1/8" thick glass because the cost was so low I figured the extra thickness would be better.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Here's a picture of the silicone.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Water test


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I think I bought to fine a sand


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Upside down haha xD


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha yeah took it with my phone. I don't know why it does that


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## MSG (Jul 16, 2012)

*If you're in Cali, your window tank will go past 100 degrees.*

I'm over on the East Coast. I had a tank CLOSE to the window, decided to leave the shade up one day to give the little fish some natural daylight. 

Right before I was about to leave the house, I saw my little betta fish wasn't swimming around "exploring". Instead mr Betta was HIDING along side it's fake log ornament. It was like CLINGING to the ornament for some SHADE. 

Thought to myself, "That's weird of him to do that".

Luckily I had 4 kitchen thermometers laying around that & placed a couple inside the tank. 


Temperature read almost 100 DEGREES & it was ONLY 10am.
Would have LOST all of the little ones if I didn't spot it SOONER. Not going to make that same mistake again.

Anyway.......
I'm curious to see what type of plants/critters you decide to house in your tank. 

Good luck


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I appreciate the tip, ill put a thermometer in there and watch out for temp swings. My house allways stays between 73-75 but I can see how direct sunlight can cause issues. Although it only gets 2 hours of morning sun. 

As for tw sand I'm concerned that it maybe be to fine. Can it harm shrimp? Will it cause issues with the plants? 

Also can anyone identify the two plants in the tank? They were gift to me. I want to try and figure out proper care for them.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Plant one

Anyone know what it is?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Plant two. Any guesses?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

maybe crypt parva on the second one? the first also looks sort of like a crypt but I only have 2 crypts in my tank so I'm no expert


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay thank you. I'm sure the other is a crypt too. I asked in the plant section too ill check there.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

The tank is coming along. I add and remove items from day to day as I look at and decide if it is how I want it.
Here it is right now. It's the first week of cycling. Water temp in the window seems to stay between 68 at night and till mid morning then climbs to 78 mid afternoon. That seems like a large shift to me but I am thinking that its a very natural transition through that temp range and it may not harm shrimp. 
Any thoughts on this? 
Any feed back on its appearance?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Another pic


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Very cool tank


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## otofish (Apr 11, 2010)

I like this idea. Looking forward to seeing how this works out. The temp shift might be ok for shrimp. In the wild though were there might be a temperature shift that is twice this, the shrimp are able to move around to find warmer or cooler spots, for example they can retreat to the bottom of a stream in the middle of the day. Maybe you'll just have to find out for us if this can work.
Since you're not completely planted yet, I would take this opportunity to slope the sand away from the glass, but that's just me.
Looking good so far.


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## CookieM (Feb 7, 2012)

otofish said:


> I like this idea. Looking forward to seeing how this works out. The temp shift might be ok for shrimp. In the wild though were there might be a temperature shift that is twice this, the shrimp are able to move around to find warmer or cooler spots, for example they can retreat to the bottom of a stream in the middle of the day. Maybe you'll just have to find out for us if this can work.
> Since you're not completely planted yet, I would take this opportunity to slope the sand away from the glass, but that's just me.
> Looking good so far.


Also in the wild the lake, pond or whatever body of waters is thousands time bigger than this tiny tank. So even if temp fluctuate it won't affect 10% of the waters.

In this tank however there are no escape when summer come. They'll boiled alive.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Can you put a shade or a blind in the window for the summer when the light would be direct? That might help since it would block the sun. The more solid, the better.


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

That a neat idea for a desktop tank. 

One thing I've noticed from my experiments with a 1g cube is it is super hard to cycle and keep from getting crazy ammonia spikes. With such a small water column, it can go bad very quickly.

Please keep us posted when you get some shrimp in there! Do you plan on filtering it at all?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I can easily lower the blinds to shade the tank. I also can place a sheet of black construction paper between window and tank to block light.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Thelub, I do not want to place a filter in the tank. I've been reading as much as I can about small tanks like this and it basically comes down to there are way to many opinions and no real verified articles that give me a solid this is what to do. 
I've read and been told 20 percent water change every other day I've been told 50 percent a week and been told 10 percent a day every day. I've read about nano tanks that only require water to be added. 
I'm going to test daily and just go from there.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I started the tank off with a bag of biomax from my other tank about 8 "pond snails" and 50/50 mix water from my planted tank and tap water. I used tank water because indidnt want the bacteria colony from the biomax to die from no food source. The planted tank is heavily planted and has a high fish load in it. So the water column has fish waste in it to feed the seeded bacteria. 
On one end I put a air stone with a restricted valve and a thermometer on the other end. 
My goal is to remove the air stone. Have a clean simple tank that I can just change water as needed.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

maybe u should have a fan with a temperature controller. So it turns on the fan whenever it goes over a certain temperature.


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## kimboden (Feb 22, 2013)

(Opae ula, Halocaridina rubra) try these shrimp. They are very forgiving for any fluctuation.
Kim


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## inthepacific (Oct 21, 2012)

so ive had experience with my shrimp being in very high temps of water. i had a few cherries in close to 80-90 water on accident once because my room heater was kept on so it heated the water in the tank. they were alive and did well they were just a bit uncomfortable (probably a lot uncomfortable...), so they might be able to tolerate it, but that is probably not the best conditions for them and may stress them out. I doubt that they'd breed, but thats probably not what your goal is with this tank. just keep an eye on the temps. maybe do a trial and monitor the temps for a week or two and maybe take down what the temps are like during certain hours of the day probably best is to do it every three hours.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I've been tracking the temps and so far past three days its been 68 at lowest 78 at highest. I will continue to monitor temps through the week and see what I get. 
I don't want anything to suffer so I won't add live animals besides snails in it until I know it's a stable environment well as stable as this small of a tank can be. I'm thinking no more than 5 shrimp when I finally add them.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I have a question about water changes on a tank this small. 
I did basic water test ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, ph. I have 0, 80,0. I did a 75 percent water change nitrates are down to 20ish. 

I know on this thread it's been said that small water changes daily are bad and only do it 50 percent once a week. That is advice I normally head with out question but in a rank this small and nitrates elevating at a more rapid pace. Would t it be less stressful to shrimp if I did a 10 percent daily change keep nitrates at a even level than have them in very high nitrates then shock them with a huge drop then cycle up again than a big drop?


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## otofish (Apr 11, 2010)

I prefer doing larger water changes on small tanks. It keeps the tank water closer to the tap water parameters so that water changes are less stressful since they're creating less change. Only half the water will be different from tap water. With 10% changes, no matter how often, 90% of the water will be different from tap water. I think there are some good calculations/graphs on this relating to the EI method. The premise is different but the results are the same. But that's just me. Smaller water changes would make your tank more like a closed system.

Since you don't currently have shrimp, I would hold off doing water changes now until your tank has cycled. Pulling out the nitrites now will just delay or reduce cycling. To that end you might also want to add a source of ammonia.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I am sorry I ment nitrates not nitrites. Auto correct can be a cure and a blessing. It was nitrates that were spiked so high. Ammonia and nitrites had allready stabilized.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Otofish, thank you I did read the EI dosing I do that method for my heavy planted tank and reading what you said makes perfect sense to me. My follow up question is then should I use my nitrate reading determine water change times? I do a 50% once a week for my large tank but nitrates aren't a run away train for that tank. Can I do a biweekly or triweekly water change on this small tank If nitrate levels require it? 
The devil I'm wrestling with is higher nitrates less harmful than a more frequent water change?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Update

2 days since last water change nitrates are high again. Plants seem to be okay and the snails are breeding like nuts. 

In two days nitrates went from 20 up to 80+ ppm. 

I'm still not sure what thresh hold nitrate levels can reach before I have to change water.


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

The consensus seems to be to change water once it gets 40+


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## otofish (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm glad my explaination of my water change strategy made sense .
Have you thought about adding some floaters? They would block a little of the sun and hopefully eat up your nitrates pretty quickly. Where are your nitrates comming from? Just the snails?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1 Since it is a small tank, floaters make sense.


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## Knotyoureality (Aug 3, 2012)

otofish said:


> I'm glad my explaination of my water change strategy made sense .
> Have you thought about adding some floaters? They would block a little of the sun and hopefully eat up your nitrates pretty quickly. Where are your nitrates comming from? Just the snails?


+1 on the floaters. I use frogbit, red root floater, duckweed, guppy grass or hornwort (alone or in various combinations) in all my no-tech tanks for just this reason.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I appreciate the feed back. 
40ppm seems reasonable. I will do the duckweed as soon as I can find some. It can't be comercially shipped to California. If anyone wants to sell me some I'd be grateful. 
Otofish, yeah it's only snails but there's about 12 pond snails ranging from 1/8" to 1/2" ish. Average size being 1/4". During the water change I was syphoning the snail poop out from the sand and I noticed the sand is covered in long ropey filaments of slime that suck up semi easily. There was alot of it and I'm not sure if these snail slime trails are causing the issue of high nitrates.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Updates

Temp is staying stable. Never passes 78 bottoms out around 68-70. 
Ph stable at 8.0
Ammonia 0 
nitrite 0
Nitrate every second day hits 40 third day hits 80. 
So far *knocks on wood* being placed in the window has not induced an algae issue. 
I placed some feeder ghost shrimp I use for my ghost knife. I'll see how they handle the every 2 days water change. 

This weekend I'm going to a pet store in Davis ca and buy some floater plants see if they soak up some nitrates.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

A very sad update:

I had ghost shrimp in the window tanks for two days. They seemed happy, one was berried. Nitrates at 20 nitrites 0 ammonia 0. 

Went to lFS and saw they had 7 cherry shrimp. They never have any. I was oh wow I'm suprised and my tank seemed ready. So I buy them. 
I check water parameters everything is fine. 
So i install a a sponge filter shop owner had. It was gimiky but I don't mind wasting a few bucks at a good LFS if it helps them out. 
I acclimate the shrimp temp wise. Then I mix a little tank water in the bag. Wait a while. Mix some more. Everything going fine the shrimp seem happy. I remove the ghost shrimp from the tank. I then place the cherries in the tank. They instantly start acting funny. 
At this point it's been over a hour since I started mixing LF'S water and tank water. The new sponge filter has been in for 2 hrs. 
With in 10 mins all the shrimp are either dead or on there sides barely moving. I check. Ammonia 0 nitrates 20 nitrite 1.0!! 
It spiked from 0 to 1.0 in 2 hours!! 
I'm very confused on how it could have spiked like that when the ghost shrimp 15 mins prior where fine


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Can i ask a question, did you always had a filter in this tank? I have been following the thread, it seems the tank was only up for about a week and you said you don't want a filter in that tank. How did you get the tank to cycle so quickly without a filter, or did you use a old filter from another tank to cycle it?

is something you have in there leeching nitrate? i'm not sure just snails would get your nitrate to 80 in 3 days. It doesn't even do that in my 1 gallon tanks.

Cause it sounds almost like, when you added the sponge filter form your lfs, your tank started to cycle (thus the nitrite)


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

If you notice in the early pictures i used old filter media. To get the tank to cycle I took biomax balls from my planted tank filter. A whole trays worth, placed them in a net and took a 50/50 volume of water from the planted tank and put it in the new tank with the bio balls. The rest of the water was dechlorinated tap water. I used 50/50 planted tank water so the bacteria on the bio balls would starve in a barren new tank. Or so my thought process was going with it. 
I then added about a dozen pond snails give or take, also a small bunch of java moss and two mini crypts.

You are correct aluka, I did not want to add a filter. I wanted a nice clean look. The LFS guy once I told him my set up, kept insisting a small tank like that had to have a filter so i bought his 6 dollar clear plastic sponge filter. It's very small and run by air.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Do you keep the bioballs in the tank? cause there's not alot of surface for the bb to grow in that tank without the bioballs. And as soon as you remove the bioballs, the cycle should die?

a tank that size usually tanks me about an month and a half to "cycle" without a filter, and generally ends up being very heavily planted. lol


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

For the first 7 days. It's now day ten. As I was saying after day 2 nitrite was 0 nitrate was high. After 50% water change nitrates where back down low. Each day nitrates would go up. By second day it was at 40 by third day it was 80. 50/50 water change nitrates low again and nitrites still 0. It just seemed to be the cycle it was going to stay with.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I just check on the shrimp. There are a few still kicking legs but on their sides. I'm not sure what to do for them. I dosed some seachem prime to absorb some nitrite. Not sure if it'll help


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

yea, thats why i am so surprised. Cause i have never seen it happen like that before. especially without filter media for the bb to grow on, only glass surface and substrate and plants to grow on.

I mean i have cycled tanks in a week before, but never without a filter. I love pico scapes, and i don't filter any of my tanks under 3 gallon. So i am really intrigued. Cause i always had to go through 2 months of conditioning process to cycle them. But after 2-3 months all i have to do is top offs. 

hmm, very interesting!!


maybe a small water change?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I was very surprised my self and had fully intended to wait the three-four weeks I had initially expected. After checking and tracking everything for the first week all signs pointed to a cycled tank. So I placed a few ghost shrimp in. They behaved happily. The cycle seemed to hold nothing spiked. I figure if it was going to crash it would have done it with them. Parameters stayed stable and I was feeling good. That's why I said what the heck ill get the cherry they never have them and the tank is behaving well. 

The only thing I can think of that could have caused a spike like that is the sponge filter I placed in there. I just never thought it could cause swings like that in only 2 hours. I figured since I tested a couple hours ago and the ghost shrimp where doing well it would be okay to add the cherries. I was very wrong and I deff have a lot to learn.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Its a brand new sponge filter right? i don't see how that would crash your cycle tho, if anything it should help, since the sponge is giving it more place to grow bb. I mean unless you brought a old sponge filter and it had copper trace on it.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

It was brand new. I rinsed it the tank water I took out for displacement of the LFS tank water. It's not the black sponge type. It's a very small 3" tall 1" wide clear plastic case with a rectangle sponge inside it with a air hose run down the top to the base. It seemed not to be very intrusive so I figured I'd try it. I should have known better. If I was going to add something like that I should have waited and watched parameters. 
I just have never seen a spike that fast. I'm used to large tanks but still that was very fast large spike.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

=/ cherries are tanks tho. I am ashamed to say i have cycled tanks (1-2.5 gallons) with cherries in them =< (hides), never seen them do that =< or lost any of them while cycling.

sorry man, i'm at lost too.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I just don't get how 15 mins earlier I ha ghost shrimp in there and fine and I put the cherries and they instantly start dying.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

Neither do I! I might have cycled a 5 betta tank, by cutting a AC 70 sponge filter from a larger tank and plopping it in there, and being done with it. Luckily no spikes. *hides* *bad naughty fish owner*


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I have a couple thoughts, but obviously I'm not there to see for myself.

Ph swing could do it. Cherries are tanks, but not indestructible. Adding water every few minutes would be too fast if there's a large ph difference between your fish store and your home water. Drip acclimation is always a good way to prevent that: http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/258-Acclimatising-Shrimp

Temperature could also play a role. A sudden drop or rise in temp could cause stress of no return. I've found this out the hard way when beginning with shrimp. It's less problematic if it happens in their own environment, but compound the fact of new environment, new water source, etc and it adds up.

I personally mulm bomb my new tanks a day or so before adding shrimp. I simply take a used sponge filter and squeeze it out in my new tank water. Does it make the water cloudy? Yep. Looks like mud was stirred up on the bottom of a pond. However I do this for several different reasons. Just a few are it inoculates any new sponge filter running, gives bacteria something to feast on for at least 24 hrs. After it clears, any settled sediment gives the new shrimp something to feast on as well giving them a dose of the new bacteria into their system. Is it fool proof? Nope. But seems to work for me.

If I have very expensive shrimp, I always have an option of switching out one of the new double sponge filters for one that has been running in another tank for awhile. Instant bio filtration, although new bacteria introduced is another topic entirely.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I checked nitrites this morning and they are at a 2.0
I am positive adding that sponge filter caused a huge spike. 
I learned a valuable leasson. Do not add a filter media to a system with out expecting it to cause a new cycle. 
I'm removing the filter and going back to the original plan of a clean filter less tank.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

You could throw it in your already cycled tank and then back into the window tank after 4 weeks. Get a good pop of BB, then it might steady your cycle with better surface area for the BB to grow.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Well if you have nitrites, it probably means you lost the nitrobacter bacteria. I would just keep the filter in and put the bioballs in again and try to get the bb to grow on the sponge. Always easier to have a steady cycle with SPONGES lol


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Soothing shrimp, thank you for that link I did not know to acclimate them that slowly. I treated it like I did with my fish. I will most defiantly acclimate any shrimp I get in the future like that. 

As for the filter. I'm not sure if I want to put the one I bought back in. Ill include a picture. I like the look of the tank with just te air stone in the corner hidden and unobtrusive. The smallest filter the guy had is still a brick compared to the tank. I don't want to make a mistake like I just did again either. The tank was stable and ghost shrimp were happy as pigs in sh*t before I placed that filter in. 

The volume area of the tank is 2.5 account for substrate, plants and rocks its more like less than 2 gallons. 

For right now I took a cycled biomax bag and placed it in the tank filter is not in airstone is going I did a 50 percent water change.


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## otofish (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm sorry that happened. Sounds like Soothing Shrimp has figured out the primary reason why the cherries died: a too short acclimation. 
It's still puzzling me why your nitrates are so high and go up so fast. The snails shouldn't be doing this. Did you leave the bio balls in there this whole time? Maybe it was some of the bacteria dying off. Adding water from your established tank won't help with this since water in an established tank has essentially no ammonia or nitrites. Otherwise have you tested your tap water. Most dechlorinators help with this but sometimes they can do funny things to water chemistry. Have you tested your water hardness? Maybe your buffering capacity is low and this is contributing. Personally, I wouldn't add any shrimp until I'd figured out the source of the nitrogen.
+1 on cycling the filter in your established thank first. I always like to fishless cycle my tanks for a few weeks before adding shrimp. Then I don't add the shrimp until my tank is cycled and I have some algae growing, usually diatomaceous in a new tank.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I am very puzzled also. Nitrites where 0 after day two or three, ill look at my notes in a little bit, nitrates where what seemed to quickly accumulate. I had some brown alge on the and edges corners of the tank. 
I kept the biomax in the tank till day 7 today is day 11. I had a good 5 days of 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and the for mentioned nitrate issue. 

I just don't know what went wrong I tested te tank when I got home. Nitrate was 20 nitrite was 0 ammonia was 0. I placed the new filter in tank started my shrimp acclimation then after two hours took out the ghost shrimp and placed in the cherries. They instantly started dieing. Tested nitrites it was at 1.0 I was stunned. I checked again this morning it was at 2.0

Oceangirl, I've done the same for sponges on power heads and HOB's never had an issue. I've never had a spike in a parameter without me seriously messing with stuff. I have also never messed with a tank so small and perhaps my habits on a larger more forgiving tank won't cut it in a small one. I have already went out and got a second bucket to do tank water cleanining of my hands and anything that goes in the tank. My larger tanks I'm a lot more cavalier about it.

Here's a pic of my planted tank


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I feel bad for killing the shrimp like that. Dont know why, I feed a few a week to my ghost knife but at least they have a chance with him. With these guys they looked like I gassed them. So with that I'm going to go with the filter in the tank. I put it on one side and a airstone on the other. I dont like it much but it has good circulation and I hope it'll make things better for the next batch I try in a few weeks.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

try using fish food. i feel like, just having nitrates is not a great way of telling if the tank is cycled. something could be leeching nitrates.

Add fishfood, so you have a detectable ammonia level. The check again later. If the ammonia is gone and your nitrate went up, then its definitely cycled.


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## tekkguy (Jan 3, 2013)

Did you say you took water out because of displacement of LFS water? You mean when you floated the bag, right? You didn't put the store's water in your tank, right?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

That is very good idea, thank you aluka. 
I really appreciate everyone's help on this. I don't like needlessly killing critters and I probably would have, after this fail, said okay small tanks aren't for amateurs. 

Ill test my parameters post them and then drop in a few flakes then test in the morning. If it needs to be a lot instead of a few flakes let me know and ill check back here in a bit and add more.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Tekkguy,
I removed the amount of water displaced by the bag. I did put the LFS water in the tank. I floated the bag until temp matched then I was mixing the tank water slowly (turns out to fast) into the bag then I placed the bags contents into the tank such as shrimp, water, some java moss from my tank I placed into the bag.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

oh never do that, you don't know what is in your lfs water. Always pour the contents of the bag into a container, set up a dip, and let it dip for a few hours. (i usually do 2 hours, or when the container's water level at least doubled) then scoop out your shrimps and add to the tank directly.


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## tekkguy (Jan 3, 2013)

Yeah ... The LFS water may be part of your problem.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Ammonia 0 nitrite .50 nitrate between 10 and 20. PH 8 (ph out of tap is 8 I don't fight)


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol I guess the mystery is solved then. I didn't know you couldn't just toss their water in. I assumed they where alive in the lfs tank I figured mixing that water and tank water wasn't a big deal since I'm acclimating them in the same mix. 
This is my first foray into non feeder shrimp so all these tidbits are very helpful. The drip method very much so. I had no clue...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Most shrimp keepers have killed many shrimp while learning. The secret is not to give up and soon you'll do fine.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Update:

Ammonia 0 
Nitrite 1.0
Nitrate 5
Gh (test strip) 120
Kh (test strip) 180
Ph 8.0

The wait continues....


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

A special big thank you to Soothing Shrimp for the duck weed.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Update:

Duckweed has been in tank for 2 days. 

Ammonia 0 
Nitrite: 1
Nitrate: 20
Other parameters unchanged.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Update:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 1
Nitrate: less than 5
Other parameters unchanged. 

I'm not understanding why nitrite won't drop but nitrate builds then drops builds than drops. It's like I'm loosing my nitrifying bacteria over and over. Almost like they colonize then collapse. I don't know what would cause that. 
I am doing a water change after this post.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Do you have an ammonia source at this point? 

Because if you currently have an ammonia source and the ammonia is being converted to nitrite, even if nitrite levels stays the same, it seems some nitrite is being converted to nitrate.

Also plants will absorb both ammonia and nitrates, so the cycle could be not moving at all because there isn't enough ammonia to go around


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Aluka, 
I have about 10 pond snails in there. The volume of the tank is 2.5 gallons but if you account the displacement of the substrate the filter plants and rocks its more like 1.8 or 2 gallons.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

You obviously underestimate the power of duckweed lol, they suck up nitrate and ammonia like crazy.

But I'm not sure why ur cycle is stalled, that is the only logical reason I can come up with.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha duckweed is amazing stuff. 
I don't know what to say about the cycle. I thought my test kit was bad so i went and grabbed strips and verified my test kit with them. They match results. I have bio max from well established tank inside the tank I have snails in tank I put fish flakes in it. Nitrites climb nitrates drop.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Idle thought. Is it possible that plants are absorbing to much ammonia possibly causing the bacteria to relitivly starve and collapse the cycle? 
Feel free to pick it apart


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## otofish (Apr 11, 2010)

Duckweed is fast but the denitrifying bacteria should be faster. Have you tried completely overloading the system with ammonia? Either lots of fish food or just add some ammonia. I take the second route for my fishless cycles. I wonder if the fish food you added was eaten by the snails and therefore you only got a short ammonia spike which translated to a short nitrite spike. Maybe this doesn't make sense but I'm just throwing out theories.


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## Mrturritos (Oct 26, 2012)

I tried doing a window sill tank here in seattle, and I still had to cover the side that faced the window to completely block out the little sun we get. Shrimp did well but after a few weeks I pulled it down because I didn't like the fluctuation it was having.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Otofish, I think that is a good suggestion. Perhaps I never gave the tank the proper kick start it needed. I buy ghost shrimp and dump them in my planted tank I use them as feeders for my ghost knife. Ill go shake my java fern up and toss a few in the tank and see if that does it. There's usually a dozen or so in there when I do water changes.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Mrturritos, where you experiencing the same issue? What where your issues? Was it stocked, lightly planted? Was it an algae issue?
I haven't had any real algae at all. I think one little spot of brown that was gone the next day.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

i have 2 pico scapes on my window sill, no stocks in them tho. I do notice a pretty significant temperature change from when the sun is up and when the sun is down . (i didn't use a thermometer, just by touch it seems at least 10-15 degrees higher)

During the window winter, they got covered with brown algae! lol. But luckily has since cleared up because the sun is staying up longer. It gets about 5 hours of direct sunlight now. i dose with one drops of excel every day. The plants in there seems thriving, but i am not sure if i am confident enough to stock them. 

Its why i am watching your thread so closely, lol.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Aluka, you've more than followed you've given tons of help. 

The tank wouldn't be considered a Walstad tank. It's a bare substrate with light plant load. I've read a lot about that style tank and it works well but it's far to crowded for what I wanted. 

I am testing a few times daily and making changes as I notice results. I just hope I can get a grip on the nitrite. I'm sure it can be done I just need to find a balance. 
Right now amonia is 0 
nitrite has been steady at 1 for a few days 
nitrate has been steadily decreasing its 5 ppm now


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Update:
Changes per recommendation from otofish I added 10 ghost shrimp yesterday. Since then these are my readings. 

Ammonia: .50
Nitrite: .50
Nitrate: 5.0
Other parameters unchanged. 

Observation that may be of concern. The substrate has a layer of mulm on it now. The shrimp are enjoying it but it is producing a regular stream of bubbles. Across the whole substrate not just one spot. The substrate is sand with nothing under it. It's has a fine layer of brownish mulm across it. I don't believe it's diatoms because there are no spots of it anywhere but a very even layer on the on the sand and it sucks up very easily with a si


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Update:
Changes per recommendation from otofish I added 10 ghost shrimp yesterday. Since then these are my readings. 

Ammonia: .50
Nitrite: .50
Nitrate: 5.0
Other parameters unchanged. 

Observation that may be of concern. The substrate has a layer of mulm on it now. The shrimp are enjoying it but it is producing a regular stream of bubbles. Across the whole substrate not just one spot. The substrate is sand with nothing under it. It's has a fine layer of brownish mulm across it. I don't believe it's diatoms because there are no spots of it anywhere but a very even layer on the on the sand and it sucks up very easily with a siphon hose. The bubbles you see under the sand has always been there. It's the bubbles from te mulm that concerns me. 

See photo


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## xev11 (Jan 19, 2010)

the mulm is probably a green algae that doesnt look very green. the bubbles are O2 bubble that algae produces when light hits it.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Xev11, that makes a lot of sense. I'm very surprised to see algae pearl like that in such a no fert natrual light situation.


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## xev11 (Jan 19, 2010)

Algae uses any nutrients it can find. So it most likely found some in the water. Plus you can get it from the air. If you've ever seen a barrel or bucket with water, over time it will grow green water algae and other kinds.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Update: 
Water change early morning on the 6th. 

Ammonia:0
Nitrites:0
Nitrates:10

Shrimp are healthy and active 

I'm hoping I've hit a balance. I'm hoping otofish's idea for addding larger bioload was the trick.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

so how is this project going? its been over a month~!


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