# Growing dwarf hairgrass.



## agro (Nov 29, 2013)

Trim it to promote runners/root growth.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

scrapironfish -

Can you go through you dosing regiment? I started with the same DHG and have had zero melting, but my PAR to the substrate is much higher I believe.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

Immersed means it was grown underwater. The word you're looking for is emersed . 

Glad to hear it hasn't completely died on you. That's good, you should be fine now as the immersed parts are now getting used to your tank and are now growing.


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> Immersed means it was grown underwater. The word you're looking for is emersed .
> 
> Glad to hear it hasn't completely died on you. That's good, you should be fine now as the immersed parts are now getting used to your tank and are now growing.


I thought immersed was same as emersed, and that SUBMERSED was the term for underwater. Bleh tech terms.

God I hope this stuff spreads.


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Archerofthemoon said:


> scrapironfish -
> 
> Can you go through you dosing regiment? I started with the same DHG and have had zero melting, but my PAR to the substrate is much higher I believe.


3 times a week alternating days

Nitrogen 1.1ml
Phosphorus 2.1 ml
Potassium 2.8 ml
flourish 1.7 ml

3 times a week alternating days

Trace elements 4.25 ml
Iron 1.7ml

Off day for 50% water change. Dosing cycle repeats. 

I'm still fairly new at EI dosing any help would be great.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

scrapironfish said:


> I thought immersed was same as emersed, and that SUBMERSED was the term for underwater. Bleh tech terms.
> 
> God I hope this stuff spreads.


You are correct on immersed/emersed being the same thing. To keep it simple, lets just refer to it as emersed from now on to reduce confusion 



scrapironfish said:


> 3 times a week alternating days
> 
> Nitrogen 1.1ml
> Phosphorus 2.1 ml
> ...


I would up your general flourish to 2.2ml's. Also, I'd kick on your CO2 15 minutes prior to the lights coming on and 15 minutes prior to the lights going off. This will increase CO2 saturation prior to the lights and reduce it prior to them going off. How much surface agitation do you have? How is your CO2 being diffused? Is your CO2 injected by a compressed canister or DIY?


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Archerofthemoon:

Will do with the flourish increase and co2 timing schedule. I was turning my co2 off an hour before the lights kicked off. 15 minutes you say?

-Surface agitation is just a good ripple from the 2 hob filters. 
-CO2 is pressurized
-Ceramic diffuser with bubble counter rate of about 1.5 to 2 bubbles per second.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

If you're aerating the tank during lights out you could cut it around 15-30. Ease it down though so the fish get acclimated to it.

Since you have 2 HOB's you might have too much agitation. Consider, when you have some time and you'll be around your tank for a day, kicking up the BPM to 3-4. Again, ease into it so the fish don't go from happy to shocked. Do you have a drop meter to see how much saturation you're getting?


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Archerofthemoon said:


> Do you have a drop meter to see how much saturation you're getting?


No, I've heard so much crap either way about drop checkers being inaccurate as much as the KH & PH test being inaccurate. I'm not sure which way is best to measure co2 PPM accurately, and don't want to buy a drop checker if its in accurate. Can you recommend a decent drop checker for a good price?

In addition. I've heard this before. But Is it true DHG absolutely loves co2?


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## agro (Nov 29, 2013)

scrapironfish said:


> No, I've heard so much crap either way about drop checkers being inaccurate as much as the KH & PH test being inaccurate. I'm not sure which way is best to measure co2 PPM accurately, and don't want to buy a drop checker if its in accurate. Can you recommend a decent drop checker for a good price?
> 
> In addition. I've heard this before. But Is it true DHG absolutely loves co2?


Grows like weeds with co2.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

scrapironfish said:


> No, I've heard so much crap either way about drop checkers being inaccurate as much as the KH & PH test being inaccurate. I'm not sure which way is best to measure co2 PPM accurately, and don't want to buy a drop checker if its in accurate. Can you recommend a decent drop checker for a good price?
> 
> In addition. I've heard this before. But Is it true DHG absolutely loves co2?


A lot of drop checkers in general work. It's more than likely just the fluid put into the drop checker that gives you an accurate reading. Usually people mix their own solutions for these situations. In addition, the reason drop checkers are usually inaccurate is because they take some time to actually get an accurate reading of the co2 levels in the tank.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

scrapironfish said:


> No, I've heard so much crap either way about drop checkers being inaccurate as much as the KH & PH test being inaccurate. I'm not sure which way is best to measure co2 PPM accurately, and don't want to buy a drop checker if its in accurate. Can you recommend a decent drop checker for a good price?
> 
> In addition. I've heard this before. But Is it true DHG absolutely loves co2?


I just got a cheapo one to start out with from Amazon. I believe it was an Up Aqua model. It's worked great as a gauge and works decent as long as the CO2 is being dispersed correctly and the bubbles are not being jetted into the "cup" of the device. 



agro said:


> Grows like weeds with co2.


Mine grows great in CO2, do I'd have to agree. But at the same time I have it growing emersed... Both grow like weeds...


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

The package is emergent growth but not the same as completely emergent growth, which is much taller and thicker. This looks like a too much light/not enough CO2 issue. That's a hellova lota light for a 20 long.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

Archerofthemoon said:


> I just got a cheapo one to start out with from Amazon. I believe it was an Up Aqua model. It's worked great as a gauge and works decent as long as the CO2 is being dispersed correctly and the bubbles are not being jetted into the "cup" of the device.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine grows great in CO2, do I'd have to agree. But at the same time I have it growing emersed... Both grow like weeds...


The reason it growing like a weed emersed is because there's more co2 in the air than there is in the water. So as a result, co2 wouldn't be the dhg's limiting factor.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

mistuhmarc said:


> The reason it growing like a weed emersed is because there's more co2 in the air than there is in the water. So as a result, co2 wouldn't be the dhg's limiting factor.


I'd beg to differ on that. My setup is pretty air locked (solid glass panes between tank and lights) and I don't open it but every few weeks/to add and remove plants (which hasn't been any time recently) Since air doesn't pass through glass I don't see how this can be the case of my setup.


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## agro (Nov 29, 2013)

Archerofthemoon said:


> I'd beg to differ on that. My setup is pretty air locked (solid glass panes between tank and lights) and I don't open it but every few weeks/to add and remove plants (which hasn't been any time recently) Since air doesn't pass through glass I don't see how this can be the case of my setup.


Do you not mist?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

agro said:


> Do you not mist?


Setup has water and a fogger system. There is no need for me to interfere, much.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

Archerofthemoon said:


> I'd beg to differ on that. My setup is pretty air locked (solid glass panes between tank and lights) and I don't open it but every few weeks/to add and remove plants (which hasn't been any time recently) Since air doesn't pass through glass I don't see how this can be the case of my setup.


Do you have a small opening at all? There's still more co2 in the air in my opinion and even then, plants still perform respiration at night, switching out the oxygen in the air for more co2.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

There is a grommet in one of the panes, but it's sealed (in a rigged way) so the fogger can get in.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

scrapironfish said:


> No, I've heard so much crap either way about drop checkers being inaccurate as much as the KH & PH test being inaccurate. I'm not sure which way is best to measure co2 PPM accurately, and don't want to buy a drop checker if its in accurate. Can you recommend a decent drop checker for a good price?
> 
> In addition. I've heard this before. But Is it true DHG absolutely loves co2?


All a drop checker is doing is using the pH-kH chart but with a calibrated kH solution. A dropchecker won't give super accurate results, but it is very useful to give you an estimate of the CO2 levels to see if you are getting the expected results. If your drop checker never changes from blue, you know you are too low and that CO2 is being lost. 

I suspect that your CO2 is too low and would recommend testing it. Two HOBs will certainly cause a lot of degassing.


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## bir123 (Jun 8, 2014)

Any more pic of the hair grass .how are they doing

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

bir123 said:


> Any more pic of the hair grass .how are they doing
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk


I'ts slow going. I was going to wait till it grew a bit more. But ill post a pic or 2 when i get home.


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

bir123 said:


> Any more pic of the hair grass .how are they doing
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk



As I said, Its slow going. I think I'm on the right track though.
Here's a few pics.


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## bir123 (Jun 8, 2014)

It's recovering nicely .The reason i asked is because about 2 weeks ago i bought 2 pots of hair grass and they now starting to melt but not ah much as yours.Also i did not plant mines i yet since i will ne building a new stand and moving my aquarium soon.
Thanks




















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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Nice!

I feel like my grass is never gonna grow. Yes I know patience...ARGH~!

That is a pretty good idea letting it melt in pots. Bringing it straight home, tearing all the nice roots apart into pieces and planting is probably stressful enough, then you have the acclimation it goes through.

The way you did it, all it has to do is acclimate, with all the healthy root structure it has in the pot. Then once you hace your submerged grass growing well, you can plant healthy acclimated submerged growth. 

There is so much to learn in this hobbee.


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## bir123 (Jun 8, 2014)

I hope this works because i had a pot before and it melted and only a few remained and it did not really grow since .That was 3 + months ago.Hope your get going .

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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Cool, we can keep each other posted. We can be hairgrass buddies. Good luck. 

I'll update this in a week or 2. It's growing to slow atm for more frequent updates.


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## chris_ranger (Mar 17, 2014)

Thats petsmarts after about 3 months.
Mine never died. My girlfriend has some in her tank but it died back and is still ok though. not nearly as good as mine. I have root tabs, co2, ferts and high light, where as she only has light.
One thing I did notice is my other attempts to carpet my other tanks to the left and right, the grass died or was so slow I gave up. This tank uses flourite black(much finer), the others is flourite dark.


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

chris_ranger said:


> Thats petsmarts after about 3 months.
> Mine never died. My girlfriend has some in her tank but it died back and is still ok though. not nearly as good as mine. I have root tabs, co2, ferts and high light, where as she only has light.


Nice grass!


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## bir123 (Jun 8, 2014)

Will keep u updated

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## THE V (Nov 17, 2011)

I tested out the same package of hair grass. Before I spent a few hours researching. The only thing that I consistently found was reports of it liking very rich and fine substrate. 

I put it over organic potting soil that I ammended with osmocote and a months worth of dry ferts. I then capped the area I wanted the DHG with a fine builders sand. It took off and grew like crazy in the tank without CO2.


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## ajperko (Jun 21, 2014)

I grew a solid dwarf hair grass carpet also without CO2, just using excel and a few root tabs each month +(basic nutrients) In fact, I found it grew too tall and was a little disappointed because I had to trim it almost every 2 weeks, and it was messy.


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## kbomb (Jun 14, 2014)

Before I put my hair grass in my 20 gallon planted tank, I grew it in a 2.5 gallon tank without a filter..... I used....
-10 or more ghost shrimp for "filtration"
-10k 9 inch 18 watt CFL for lighting
-Liquid Co2 (which is in Excel)
-Liquid ferts
-1/2 inch dry ferts under 1 inch black baslatic sand (black sand)
-The water level maybe 2 inches

One month later it was wall to wall of my 2.5 gallon tank.
I planted each individual set of rooted grass in the 2.5 which took 1 or 2 hours
hair grass never seems to like course gravel it tends to like sand and very low flowing water 200 gph is alot for the hair grass to no die off.


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## Looking4water (Jul 27, 2014)

*Is this "melting"??? Please help!*

Hi guys and girls, I'm newbie to TPT and to the hobby. Well, at least I didn't take this serious before.

I started a DHG two weeks ago (first picture) and I just took these pictures to show you how awful it looks today. Should I try to clean between the needles and if so, HOW do I clean it?

I see you all didn't have such problem as bad as I did.

I started dosing CO2 about a month ago, everything is growing much faster now, algae went down to a minimum after CO2. 

Also, where is my Phosphates going? I'm dosing everyday to about 1- 1.5 ppm since Nitrates spiked to 20 after this melting on the DHG. At the end of the day Phosphates are down again close to ZERO. Is it normal?

Any advice will be welcome. Please help to save my DHS!

Thank you. And congratulations to you all. Your tanks are magnificent.


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Hey guys, 

As for the post above, I too would like some help with the phosphate issue, yes your grass is melting just as mine did. but I do see new growth in your grass, It may be a good time to trim a bit to promote growth. This stuff is a pain in the ass isn't it.

I think having a very well established and balanced tank BEFORE trying Dwarf Hair Grass is quite important,(of course high light, co2 and dosing) I'm noticing _slowly_ as my tank matures (set up about 4 months ago (with cycled filter) the grass is growing better and better every week.

I made a video of my tank today, If you just want to see an update on how the DHG is doing the then skip to 1:50 seconds. 

Subscribe and thumbs up if you feel so inclined. Thanks for watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwAyrdySsFI&list=UUbExdfqHXejebSMxvMQJNfw


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## Looking4water (Jul 27, 2014)

Man I got so tired of cleaning this grass and algae took over, I trimmed a bit once, spot treated with hydrogen peroxide for a week, then started getting cloudy water every time co2was on. 
Someone mentioned DHG doesn't shoot roots quickly in this FloraMax substrate. So I now upgraded from 10 to 20 gallon and I'm using black diamond sand. I'll clean and transplant all the nasty grass to the new tank and give it another try. 
Phosphates keep going back to zero next day after dosing 1ppm. Your tank does that too? I have no idea if that's normal. There's so much to read and learn here.
Your tank is awesome and it looks very healthy. I like the fact you can see all around,
Tx for the video.


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Looking4water said:


> Man I got so tired of cleaning this grass and algae took over, I trimmed a bit once, spot treated with hydrogen peroxide for a week, then started getting cloudy water every time co2was on.
> Someone mentioned DHG doesn't shoot roots quickly in this FloraMax substrate. So I now upgraded from 10 to 20 gallon and I'm using black diamond sand. I'll clean and transplant all the nasty grass to the new tank and give it another try.
> Phosphates keep going back to zero next day after dosing 1ppm. Your tank does that too? I have no idea if that's normal. There's so much to read and learn here.
> Your tank is awesome and it looks very healthy. I like the fact you can see all around,
> Tx for the video.


As far as the hydrogen peroxide, Works great on my anubias. My Ricca Flutains hates H202, and my DHG doesn't like it much either. I stopped using H202 in tank to spot treat.

Yeah my phosphates get eaten up pretty fast, as where my nitrates have been on the high side, I think that may due to a tiger lotus bulb that may be starting to rot in my tank. I really wanted it to sprout. what ever. Can you go into more detail on your fertilizers?

You'll enjoy the 20 gallon. Its more water and more room for unexpected fluctuations in your tank. 10 gallons and under are quite demanding if your running it high tech. Once you go 20 gallons and up It gets easier to manage tank balance.

Thanks for saying my tank looks awesome! and watching my video.

I want to add something. I had no idea when i got this tank 2 years ago how big I wanted to go with it. Now I have all this stuff. If I knew then what I know now. I would have bought all this high tech stuff in the beginning. I probably would have saved about 4-5 hundred dollars. But o well our tanks are our money pits and we love em.

Tank on.


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## Looking4water (Jul 27, 2014)

LOL Indeed. Not to mention all the TIME invested.
Tx for the tip on H202, I'll keep in mind.
For now I'm dosing liquids Seachem Flourish for micros + iron and potassium.
And dry for macros, except Phosphate I dose fleet enema liquid. E.I. schedule, kinda sorta. lol


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Looking4water said:


> LOL Indeed. Not to mention all the TIME invested.
> Tx for the tip on H202, I'll keep in mind.
> For now I'm dosing liquids Seachem Flourish for micros + iron and potassium.
> And dry for macros, except Phosphate I dose fleet enema liquid. E.I. schedule, kinda sorta. lol


ok cool, I also should have asked how are you monitoring co2? drop checker? Or PH/KH relationship?


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## Looking4water (Jul 27, 2014)

For co2 monitoring I use the good old chart. My water tests about 4dkh and my ph is about 6.4 when running co2 at 1 to 2 bpm. That's around 30+ppm of co2. 
Drop checker is in my long wishing list. lol
Just finished transplanting my grass (or what's left of it - LOL) to the new tank.
Man I'm loving this black sand so far. <3
I buried some DIY root tablets made with Osmocote Plus + red Mexican clay for iron. 
Also planning on injecting some liquid ferts in the inert substrate for the DHG. You think that will help the grass to start? And if yes, what should I inject?


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

I know nothing about injecting substrate sorry. I just use flourish tabs every few months.

Good luck with your grass. Can you post a pic of your 20 gallon?


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## Looking4water (Jul 27, 2014)

*Sure, here it is...*

It's a work in progress. I guess now we just have to wait and see how it grows. Thank you and good luck to you.


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## scrapironfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Great looking tank! Grass looks like its doing fine. Now comes the patience part. Thanks for posting a pic.


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