# Reef Tank vs. Planted Tank



## joetaff (Jun 9, 2007)

Ok I just want anyone Who has *experience* with both to reply to the following question, If you don't have experience with both but would like to share your *opinion* feel free to do so but please Inform us that It is an opinion not based on experience. Please do not get angry about what anyone says everyones opinions are and will be different and thats fine, remember fresh and salt water are all parts of an amazing hobby which we all share love for.

Now that thats out of the way (drum roll please) what have you proffered *Freshwater planted aquariums* or *salt water reef tanks*?? please leave your thoughts below and remember keep it friendly


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## dannyboy (Jul 20, 2007)

REEF tank its just more beautiful (colorful) than planted tank but also to mension way more expensive


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## davefan13 (Jun 19, 2007)

yea, i agree. i am only in high school and i would have basically have emptied my bank account to start a reef tank. i can do a planted tank on a budget, and still make it look good. not to mention that lots of fish for saltwater get up in the 40-50 dollar range, just for a regular tang.


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## mascencerro (Dec 28, 2006)

I've got a 30 gal reef and a 29 and 5 gal planted. I like them both, except the I'm constantly battling issues with the planted tanks and different types of algae. The reef matured and of course went through different stages and cycles, but now it is stable and I don't have the ugly problems I do with the planted tanks. I guess that is because with the reef I have the clean up crew that takes care of most of the algae, and I have a couple types of algae in a refugium that uses up the excess nutrients.


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## cody6766 (Mar 15, 2007)

I'd have a nice reef tank over a nice planted tank. The only reason I don't have one is the cost and, well, my bird. I wanted a bird so I spent my nano reef money on him instead of the tank. Planted tanks are very nice and impressive to look at, but a well established reef tank is very hard to beat.


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

Opinion only ~ I have no experience with reef tanks, but my two oldest stepsons are just getting into saltwater so I'll be getting some second-hand experience that way (we all do the aquarium thing together and talk like geeks about it every chance we get ~ a significant part of the time at famly get-togethers are us three over in front of the tanks by ourselves :icon_lol. Other than that, I've only really seen pictures of gorgeous reef tanks and just a few in person. The ones I prefer are mostly coral showing instead of mostly live rock with a bit of coral. I LOVE the colorful ones! And the interesting creatures you see and how they interact ~ just incredible to watch. 

But being a lifelong terrestrial gardener makes me happier in front of a planted freshwater tank. All that green just turns me on. LOVE it!


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## AlGee (Sep 7, 2006)

Traitors, all of you!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Both represent two very distinct goals.

So, have both!

Why either or?

I have both(planning stages but the space is there and I have the funds).
One cold water macro
One reef with a nice refuge display for warm water macro's, Halophia foreground in main tank
One Aggressive FW plant
One large community Planted
One Lake Tangy

I want a SEA, West African, larger Tangy, Zebra pleco, larger aggressive, but that will have to wait a couple of years.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Dzignr (Dec 27, 2006)

I have had several of both reefs and plant tanks. I'll give some obeservations and opinions I have gleaned from years of keeping both. 

I have to say in the long run I like plant tanks better. 
I cannot say which is more beautiful or which fish are prettier. Yes, in general reef fish are more vividly colored than most available tropical fish, but bright colors do not mean they are more beautiful than subtly colored fish. Is an Ansel Adams photo less beautiful than a color photo? 
The thing that drew me to reefs was not the fish but the invertebrates. I mostly enjoyed the zooanthids and button polyps. 
The thing that I don't like in the hobby is the way many reefers aquascape their tanks. Most tanks are a pile of rocks with 50 plus different kinds of corals in it making it look like a fruit stand. (I know that is said a lot but is is very true) Many just buy the coral for the sake of the coral and not how it will add to the tank as a whole. when purchased one at a time as is usually the case with corals due to the cost, a cohesive asthetic design is not often achieved. Not to say that I haven't seen some well done reefs; just that they are the exception over the rule. 
By far, for me, the best aquascaped tanks, in terms of a natural look and eye pleasing design will go to the FW planted tank 90% of the time. 

As far as cost and maintenance, a reef tank will set you back quite a bit for the equipment and lighting, but then so will a hightech planted. Salt will take a pinch out of your wallet. That was my real expense.
I was in a reef club and got 70% of my corals as give away or traded frags. So that was probably the cheapest part of my tank (go figure). 
In the end my reef tank was just a salt water planted tank. I set it up as a grass flat using C. prolifera and just a rock pile on one side housing some polyps, mushrooms and leather corals. the Tank cracked during a cleaning and so I gave everything to a friend since i was in the process of moving. 

I still have a small 2.5 reef on my counter and am planning a 20g plant tank. 

I think that going from fresh planted tanks to the reef side and finding my way back was a journey I had to take to explore what the SW side had to offer. There is much to love in a well planned, designed and executed reef tank. I think my experience has made me a better aquarist. In the end my journey led me full circle as a natural progression to what I truly love about keeping an aquarium. 

(Sorry for getting all James Joyceian in that last part)
ED


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## joetaff (Jun 9, 2007)

I asked the same question at reef central, it generated 41 replies, would you guys want me to place a link to it here so you can see it??


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## CamiTampa (Mar 12, 2007)

I don't post much here though I do read and learn. Until last month I had a 25 gal reef and a 38 gal planted discus tank going at the same time. I disagree that the reef tank is always more beautiful. My reef tank had good days as well as bad days, all while perfectly healthy. On the good days it was stunning. On it's bad days I would have liked to throw a sheet over it as it was in the living room. 

As you all know, a planted tank changes slower, growing until the point where it looks overgrown and needs triming.

When I go to work in the morning I have a pretty good idea what my planted tank will look like when I get home. Not true for a reef tank. Reef tanks crash quickly, very quickly. My reef tank was healthy and stable for 18 months then overnight it crashed for no reason, (well, unknown to me reason.) 500 dollars dead overnight.

So for the overall life of a tank I vote fw planted. You have time to fix problems and it's far less costly.


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

I have been planning my nano (seems like anything less than 40g is nano to reefers) reef since the first week of July. I'm now just waiting for a quote for a 24"x18"x18" acrylic tank and stand and will start purchasing the equipment right after.

So after 13 on-off years with freshwater (99% planted), and 1 month researching reefcentral and nano-reef, here's my opinion:

Color
- planted tanks are mostly green, but other colors are available.
- corals are available in all sorts of colors
- saltwater fish typically have stronger coloration than freshwater, but there are still a lot of very good options in freshwater.

Water
- Unless your tank is macroalgae dominated, you'll get a scolding in reefing forums if you do not use RO/DI water.
- Automatic water top-off system is also very recommended to avoid salinity fluctuation issues.

Filtration
- Typically 10x water flow turnover is good enough for planted tanks
- Typically 20x water flow turnover is the recommended minimum for reefs. This means the use of stronger pumps and powerheads.
- Plants themselves are good nutrient absorbers. If plant biomass is high and fish/bioload is low enough, there won't be much need for any other filtrations aside from providing adequate water flow as mentioned above.
- Reefers typically do their best to keep nutrients down to make corals healthy. Live rock (1-1.5 lbs per gallon) is a must. Higher bioloads lead to the use of sumps and/or refugiums and/or protein skimmers. Some even use phosphate absorbers (which makes sense as high phosphates trigger algae bloom in SW, unlike in FW).

Lighting
- Plants require so much less light. No need to go over 2.5wpg if using T5HO fixtures with good parabolic reflectors. Heck I have a 10g doing great under the stock 15w stock flourescent bulb.
- The lowest lighting I've seen so far would be 70w MH over an ADA 60-P. It's very common to see reefers using 150w MH for every 24" of their tanks. I've seen others use 250w and even 400w MH's! I've been seeing a lot of metal halide fixtures supplemented by actinic T5's

SW fish and coral is more expensive than freshwater fish and plants here in US.
Live rock can get pricey, so far most of what I've been seeing is around $4.5 per pound.
Lighting for SW is a LOT more expensive, from the fixtures to the constant bulb/lamp replacements to the monthly electric bill

In a couple of months/years I should have a more backed-by-experience opinion :icon_mrgr


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## ErikL (Jul 9, 2007)

Both can be very stunning. It comes down to what you prefer and how much money you want to spend.


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## armagedon48 (Jun 13, 2007)

a planted reef tank is a perfect mix of both worlds. 

anyways, i have kept a nano reef for almost two years now. i made the attempt to upgrade to a 65 gal reef, however the cost of new lights and larger skimmer is forcing me to sell my highly prized wrasses. im currently moving everything back to a nano reef. the reef aquarium holds an element of mystery for me. any guest i invite over are always AMAZED that my corals actually eat food or all the crazy colors/shapes. i will always keep a small reef in my care because the diversity of life seems limitless. 
now for my take on planted tanks. planted tanks are new to me, i have only had my 10 gal for 5 weeks now. the time it took me from setting it up to actually looking good was FAST. took alot less patience than the reef tank. i enjoy seeing a new leaf every morning coming from my favorite plant, and a new plant every week. the bubbles produced by the lush plants is also amazing. the diversity of invertebrates is much more limited than the reef tank, but sometimes simplicity can be more relaxing than not knowing if that new critter is eating your corals.. the bright green from a densely planted tank is also very luring. 
i think that one is not better than the other. true the cost is often different, though a reef tank can be low-tek as well.


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## BigB (Oct 14, 2005)

I chose planted over Reef for the large variety of fish that can be kept and the fact I like The flowing leaves and soft feeling a planted tank gives, Corals have a rough sharp pointy appearance and it tends to do the opposite and not calm me down.

Thats why i chose planted, Reef tanks are cool and i love to look at them at Public aquariums and stuff, but in my house I want calm and soft lol


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

I have both....High tech planted and high tech reef.

I prefer the planted... a lot more natural looking... more mellow so to speak. With the reef tank yeah the colors are brighter but it all looks fake to me as well as being a bit boring. The price is almost the same when you compared High tech with high tech so that's comparable....high lighting.....rich substrates.....co2....ferts/supplements...filtration....water changes(ro/di-salt). 

With the fish...you can get expensive fish in either tanks or cheap fish in either...in a planted tank you want nice schooling fish so the qty brings up the price and in reef most fish you can't have too many of on sp. You have CRS that are fetching hundreds while reef there are not too many that come close....fresh water you could have a tank full of zebra plecos and it would be much more then most sw fish you could put in a reef. 

Corals/plants....that could work both ways as well cause there are lots of cheap corals that are brightly colored and there are really expensive plants out there. 

Both tanks will require supplements and both require a bit of gear to keep it looking good. You can set up a full ADA tank and it will be comparable to a reef tank with all the bells and trimmings. 

I love having high tech tanks that require a bit of attention and the Reef after balancing out and stabilizing all it gets is weekly water changes and an occasional feeding.


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## edacsac (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm beginning my journey into SW right now by collecting some used components on the cheap. Funny thing is, now that I'm shopping and planning for a reef tank, my planted tank has never looked so good. I'm a techie kind of guy, so I'm looking forward to building the sump/refugium and all the plumbing needed for a reef tank, even though the closer I get the more overwhelming it becomes.

I think once it's all said and done, I'll appreciate a planted tank more. Once that day comes where the power is out all day, the SW tank turns into death soup and the FW tank barely misses a beat, I'll know what my favorite is.


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## daFrimpster (Mar 7, 2005)

I have a nano reef, a sw macro and planted tanks. I love them all for various reasons. Any tank will be as beautiful as you make it. Get both!!!!


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## pete159 (Aug 10, 2007)

i have a 24 gallon aquapod seahorse tank and a 10 gallon planted guppy tank with mollies and 2 little catfish, 4 neons and a red tail shark. the 10 gallon started out as a ghost shrimp tank to feed to my saltwater fish, but it turned out to be its own thing. Both are fun, the saltwater tank takes more work because i need to do weekly 35% water changes to keep nitrates below 15.
Once a saltwater tank is all set up its easy, but its not cheap to do things right. i bought a chiller a protein skimmer lots of live rock, so it all adds up, and i only have a small tank!.


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## dryice000 (Jul 25, 2007)

i have a 33 gallon reef tank with a 10 gallon sump and a 150 watt metal halide and i think it looks better then my 90 gallon planted and to be honest i think i spent less on the reef tank. but i think the reef is going to stay in that 33 for a while i would never be able to afford to set up the 90 gallon as a reef because im only 15. i also have a 55 gallon Malawi cichlid tank that i like to look at more then my planted tank but its because my cichlids are more active then the fish in my planted tank.


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## masYPSI (Aug 10, 2006)

Although I have zero experience with reef tanks, I have a good friend who has been into reefs for say 6-10 years. Throughout that time he has continually battled algae, death or sickness of corals, and general equipment problems. Besides the cost, from what I've seen the immense head ache is really not worth it.

On the other hand, when his tank is running smoothly, the visual pleasure is far greater.

Some thing funny though, we both ooh and ahh over each others tank.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

I've spent way way more money on my reef tank that I recently switched from a planted tank. Right now I am in the situation were I feel there is not much new with planted tanks. I have tried just about every plant possible. With reef tanks I can never try every single coral lol. This is my ADD side comming out. To me reef tanks are not any harder to care for. The most importing thing to me is not having to trim.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Wait till you have to trim frags off
Or seaweeds
Or... or... or... all sort of weird critters.

Still, not as bad.
Slower growing.

My plans changed for my home so I'll be getting the 120 gallon sps reef with the macro warm water filter display tank combo sooner rather than later.:bounce: 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## dougiefresh (Sep 5, 2006)

I'm going to take this issue from an aesthetics/interior design point of view. Reef/Saltwater tanks take usually take on a cooler color from the refractive nature of the saltwater and actinic lighting. You can't deny the beauty of a lot of these show stopping reef tanks. Although, to me most saltwater tanks just do not blend in well with today interiors with their warmer looks. To me, when you look at ADG gallery site, I'm more drawn in to having the beautiful planted tanks in my house, they're just awesome. I would say that planted tanks are the IN thing in aquariums and a lot more out of the ordinary. Reefs been done to death and many just plain take on a late 80's vibe.


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## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

ok I'm not a reefer, but I have an opinion. Reefs and Planted tanks are two totally different things. Just like we cannot compare keeping a bearded dragon (desert) to keeping a water dragon (tropical), we cannot compare these two different eco-systems. It all boils down to personal preference...do you like to look at corals and very interesting fish, or do you like plants with beautiful discus? Each can have their own problems, and each can be equally expensive. 
I do however tend to dislike reefs because of their destructive nature. Since it takes so long for them to establish, it is really sad to see them destroyed at a glance so that some filthy CEO can have a pleasing view. I know that many do consider and minimize the impacts on them, but when it comes to the majority of us.....people just don't care (look around and see how many people are still driving gas guzzling SUV's).
Despite what I just said, I would never the less love to own a reef tank, simply because of how many different creatures they can house. Saltwater fish are also extraordinary, and behave very differently from their freshwater counterparts. Think about it, a few SW fish can captivate an audience just as big a fully stocked FW PT can.
But I also like the look of lush green growth mixed with driftwood, and pretty schools of fish. 
In general, PTs can be just as expensive as RTs. Even if you think one can manage a low tech PT on a budget, one can do the same with a RT, and the results will be comparable (look good, but not its best). If I was to start the hobby all over again, but could still only keep 1 or 2 tanks, I'd still have trouble deciding which to choose!!!:icon_mrgr


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## Dzignr (Dec 27, 2006)

dougiefresh- you are so right with the late 80's vibe, but I think that was more just Large SW fish w/ coral skeletons. Reefs were just starting. But I still hear the MiamiVice theme when I see some poorly done SW tanks.

Ukrainetz - Many, many of the corals you see in shops, well good shops, come from frags and aquaculture. I thinks it's a lot of the Zooanthids that are still wild. Anemone's are a different story.


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## Brunog (May 1, 2006)

I dont think I will ever do a salt water aquarium... I dont want to damage the floors with the salt.


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## dudleystinks (Apr 9, 2005)

Planted, its more enjoyable easier to get my head around. 

My saltwater tank has been a disaster it has been covered in slimy brown algae right from the day i had it 4 years ago, i tried everything to get rid of it but nothing works.

I have also found that the fish are always dying! Mainly of whitespot which has proven incurable to me after trying every treatment out. It doesn’t help most fish being priced over £20 each and lasting at most a week.

A general rule i have found is that anything poisonous such as puffer fish tend to be indestructible. 

I love my puffer if you must have saltwater i recommend you get yourself a valentino puffer (thats him in my avatar<<<<), they don’t eat coral despite what you might read and they aren’t aggressive in the slightest. I have had a bit of success with clownfish and blennies and gobies but whatever you do, *DO NOT GET BUTTERFLY FISH, ANGEL FISH OR SURGEON FISH, WHAT A NIGHTMARE*


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## Fenton2 (Aug 13, 2007)

I have kept saltwater tanks for about a year, including a 12g nanocube, and more recently, a standard 20L AGA. I also kept a 29G planted tank for a while, and grew up keeping simple freshwater tanks when I was younger. I don't consider myself an expert in either salt or fresh. 

In my opinion, the only way that freshwater approximates the "coolness" of the saltwater hobby is in planted tanks. I maintain a preference for saltwater just because I think the SW fish are thousands of times more appealing than their FW counterparts. That said, when it comes to overall aesthetic, I think planted tanks can come close to the beauty of the saltwater tank. And beauty itself is a subjective concept--it's a bit akin to asking whether it's better to have Ansel Adams' photography or Monet's impressionism hanging over your mantle. 

I think the better question to ask is which type of tank is better for the particular aquarist, and on that topic I have a few thoughts. 

1. Difficulty - Salt is definitely harder than fresh *overall. *But at the same time, the easiest saltwater setups are easier than the hardest freshwater setups (planted tanks). You can do a FOWLR (fish only with live rock) with a couple of ACs for filtration, keep basic saltwater fish (clowns, basslets, damsels), and your maintenance is pretty minimal. But if you introduce harder saltwater fish (mandarins, some angels, tangs), and/or coral, then your hobby has become more of a challenge than any freshwater option, planted or not. 

2. "If it's all about the fish" - If what you want is to have the most exotic, colorful fish available and that's really what drives you, don't bother with freshwater, because eventually you'll just get sick of it and move to salt. 

3. Cost - If you want to do a small, bare bones saltwater setup, here's a minimal outline of what you should expect (assuming all stuff is purchased new):
A. 10G aga tank - $10
B. 18" 36W CF light (e.g. current usa or coralife) - $45
C. 10 lbs live rock - $50
D. Salt - $20
E. 10 lbs substrate (aragonite) - $20
F. AC20 for filtration - $25
G. A clean up crew (snails, hermits) - $10
H. A couple of basic fish (i.e. a pair of false perc clowns) - $30
I. Master test kit - $20
J. 50W heater - $25
H. Hydrometer and digital thermometer - $20
These costs can be decreased dramatically if there's an active local network of people helping newbies out and selling secondhand equipment. But excluding tlat, what all this boils down to is this: If you are able to do an initial cash outlay of ~$275 and don't mind a small, simple set-up, and you want to do salt, then the option is there for you. If that's not possible, then you should go with fresh, because a quality planted tank can be set up for significantly less in my opinion.

So basically all I'm saying is that the planted versus reef tank is a very close call, and it can't be answered unless you consider who is asking the question.


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## chinchek787 (Aug 28, 2005)

If I could only chose one it would be my reef simply because it provides a greater challenge than a planted tank. Both are very nice so if you can afford to have both. However it is difficult to buy the things you need if money is spread between two tanks.


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## daFrimpster (Mar 7, 2005)

B. 18" 36W CF light (e.g. current usa or coralife) - $45
You won;t be able to keep very many different corals with only 36w over your reef. Mushrooms mostly


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Wait till you have to trim frags off
> Or seaweeds
> Or... or... or... all sort of weird critters.
> 
> ...


Nice, Tom. When is the SPS dominated tank getting set up? I love the less trimming part of the reef tank. I can just sit back and relax. Its actually less water changes from the typical ei planted tank. So that is a plus as well. Only minus I see is the cost of the coral. haha. I am going broke with my purchases.


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## icliao (Jun 9, 2007)

I have been keeping reef tank for years and still have a 1000GL reef tank. In fact, I convert my 500GL reef tank to planted in the process of upgrading to the 1000GL reef tank. In my opinion, they are completely different enjoyment. 

A planted tank is more peaceful or "Zen", when I am trying to relax, I enjoy sitting in front of my planted tank. It is very soothing seeing the greens and the leaf waving slowly. For sure it is also much cheaper to maintain.

Reef tanks are robust, rich and energetic. You feel energized seeing brightly colored fish zipping the coral reef. A reef tank is no doubt expensive to maintain. 

Reef tank require less labor in trimming and water change but more works on the water testing and maintenance of skimmers and reactors.

I have both tank pictures in the below link.

http://community.webshots.com/album/559376344htOaMC?start=12


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## kevin007 (Aug 15, 2007)

icliao said:


> I have been keeping reef tank for years and still have a 1000GL reef tank. In fact, I convert my 500GL reef tank to planted in the process of upgrading to the 1000GL reef tank. In my opinion, they are completely different enjoyment.
> 
> A planted tank is more peaceful or "Zen", when I am trying to relax, I enjoy sitting in front of my planted tank. It is very soothing seeing the greens and the leaf waving slowly. For sure it is also much cheaper to maintain.
> 
> ...


How hard is it to maintain the 2 giant tanks? You have my dream right there. You have my respect.

One day I swear I'll have 4 1000 tanks side to side or wall to wall touching, one for Kois, One for Reef, one planted and one more for my turtles.

Amazing, good job, I'm very impressed


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

ianiwane said:


> Nice, Tom. When is the SPS dominated tank getting set up? I love the less trimming part of the reef tank. I can just sit back and relax. Its actually less water changes from the typical ei planted tank. So that is a plus as well. Only minus I see is the cost of the coral. haha. I am going broke with my purchases.


Yes, the cost is much less.
The lack of work in the tank is boring to some, but after hacking weeds for decades/years etc, many find it very nice

I liken it to non CO2 planted tanks, but more work, but you get a very interesting critter and plant community for the trade off.

You also need patience.
And yes, it's not cheap, but I know many in the hobby so I can get the corals fairly cheap.

Thing is, if you mess up and they all die?
It'll really cost you.

So many are very nutty about some things, they lost 1-2K$ worth of critters, so they will do voodoo to prevent it from happening again.

I have a marine tank maintenance policy that's been in place since I first did the tanks: critters and fish are free under my care.

Put you skills where your mouth is
So far I've not taken a hit.










Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I think people concerned about the trimming work in planted tanks,
simply need to switch to slower growing plants. granted you need
to first master the art of keeping your algae at bay, since the slower
your plants grow, the more apparent any algae build up gets on them.

right now I'm hosting about 3 dozen plants in two tanks, but once
I get a large display tank, I will stick with the dozen plants that
grow slow and in patterns that require the least amount of training.
the added bonus of growing slow plants is their higher resale value
once you trim and can share with other planted tank enthusiasts.

I can't imaging ever doing a saltwater tank.
they look unnatural to me, and their fragility
would discourage me from risking the money.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Less light resolves the rate of growth issue, less light=> less growth.
Species choices etc also, but less light makes the algae go away with slower growth rates, as does non CO2 methods which also limit the algae far far more than nutrient limitation methods ....for rather obvious reasons.

Algae like high light, high CO2 and grow faster in those cases as well.

Algae and plants are driven to grow 1st by light, then that drives CO2 uptake demand, then....after all that, you get to nutrients.
Not Nutrients first, then back peddling to CO2 and then to light.

Reef tanks are slower growing to start with.
However, adding a macro algae tank as a filter will rapidly remove the nutrients stripping the water, that will remove all the nutrients and cause the macro algae to crash and produce spores. 

So if you can balance the reef with the macro algae well, as far as inputs and outputs, then you have a nice stable system much like a non CO2 planted tank. Or you can dose the NO3 and Fe to keep the macro algae growing nicely as needed if the reef tank is light on fish load.

I suggest folks do this until they can slowly build up their critter loads enough, then taper off the KNO3 dosing ideally.

Like more plant/macro algae biomass causes more uptake as growth through time occurs, more coral will produce more waste and more CaCO3 demand. 
These both need balanced through time.

In well planted non CO2 tanks, the nutrients tend to be very low for NO3 and PO4, generally one is higher, namely PO4.

Similar case here but the PO4 causes issues, so the macro algae remove it rapidly(or noxious species you do not like).

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

I worked in one of the best saltwater stores in the US, Inland Aquatics, for 4 years. They have AMAZING setups, 50,000 gallons of saltwater tanks total, and beautiful displays that I've had the priviledge of helping take care of. This place is amazing. I've also spent 13 days in Australia, 9 of which were on a boat diving in the Ribbon Reefs. 

... I still prefer planted tanks. I don't like how saltwater is itchy on my skin, I don't like that everything in it tends to be pokey and sharp (rocks, coral, substrate, etc.). I don't support destroying the reefs for the hobby. I still think it's pretty... but not nearly as good as plants. When I was growing up my grandparents had a cabin on a lake where I spent a lot of time. I think the smell of the water and the fun I had in the freshwater lake is one reason I like freshwater so much more now. I don't think I'll ever have a saltwater tank, for all those reasons, even if money isn't a factor. Nothing wrong with it, it just isn't really for me.


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## icliao (Jun 9, 2007)

kevin007 said:


> How hard is it to maintain the 2 giant tanks? You have my dream right there. You have my respect.
> 
> One day I swear I'll have 4 1000 tanks side to side or wall to wall touching, one for Kois, One for Reef, one planted and one more for my turtles.
> 
> Amazing, good job, I'm very impressed


Actually it is not as much things to do once everything is up and running. 

For planted tank I am still a beginner, all I do daily is to check CO2, feed fish and dose fertilizer. Once per 2 weeks I check other water parameter and do water change.

For reef tank, all I do is clean view pannel, feed fish daily. Once a week I clean my skimmer, test water parameters and maintain the reactors.

I think owning 1 big reef tank around 1000 GL to 1500GL is satisfying enough. I was planning to have a bigger tank but had down size it to 1000GL. So far I am still quite satisfied. My 3m tank is 305cm X 128cm X 100cm compare to my old tank 215cm X 90cm X 75cm. The difference visually is huge for the slight added height and width. However, the added depth and width also made it a must to use a ladder constantly.


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## lotus02 (Feb 17, 2005)

Reef tanks and Planted tanks have their individual challenges. I have both went through algae with both, found the Reef was more difficult to rid the problem. How ever I find my Planted tank to have a calming effect where as the Reef is very busy. As for hitchhikers in a Reef can result in tearing it apart to rid the pest 6 months ago just before the transfer from my 180 to my 300 I had to catch a 6' worm that was eating my corals and snails.
Personally I do not have a preference I like both but if you ask my husband the reef is his fav.
Cost if you are a DIY person cost of a Reef can drop considerably same with a Planted tank. However if you have to have the best and newest equipment every year or so the cost can be high on both. After a few upgrades and changes on our Reef the best lesson to learn "if it ain't broke don't fix it", small changes can result in big problems. 
If you have to pick one over the other it's your personal preference, I couldn't choose one over the other.


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## Fenton2 (Aug 13, 2007)

QUOTE:

"B. 18" 36W CF light (e.g. current usa or coralife) - $45
You won;t be able to keep very many different corals with only 36w over your reef. Mushrooms mostly"

With a regular PC on a 10G you can keep any softies you want. Mushrooms, zoas, GSP, frogspawn, torch or hammer, xenia, kenyas, etc. And I said it was a skeletal setup.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

Frogspawn, torch and hammer are not softies. They are LPS.


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

The best of both worlds - 










http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=2&id=59

Quite possibly my favorite 'scape EVAH.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

How is that the best of both worlds. That still looks like a pretty high maintenance tank. Plus the reason why people like reef tanks so much are for the colors. All I see is green there.


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

Maintenance isn't really the point I was making. It has the shapes and textures of a reef, but it is freshwater. Yes, not as colorful, but you can't really say that *the* reason people like reefs is for the color - there are lots of reasons. It certainly clears up every complaint *I* have about saltwater.


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## bgoodwins (May 3, 2007)

ianiwane said:


> How is that the best of both worlds. That still looks like a pretty high maintenance tank. Plus the reason why people like reef tanks so much are for the colors. All I see is green there.


How is that comment helpful/insightful/constructive?


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

My point was you can never have the best of both worlds. Its just not possible. The reason why I switch over almost all the way to reef tanks is b/c of the variety. Colors=variety. There are so many different types of coral to try, where as I've pretty much tried all that I can think of in planted tanks.


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## bgoodwins (May 3, 2007)

My point to you is not that you're wrong and or just being rude, it's that you're arguing something immaterial. Therefore, what is the point?


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## dougiefresh (Sep 5, 2006)

Done reefs 12 years ago. They will eat your lunch financially, even the electricity bill will go up with chillers and lights. Needing RO water is a pain in the arse... As I mentioned they don't visually mix well in homes with warm earth tones. It's important to have something that doesn't stand out like a sore thumb and has to mix well with home interior environments. Terrariums/Vivariums are back and planted tanks are HOT, that's why you're reading this forum!


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

bgoodwins said:


> My point to you is not that you're wrong and or just being rude, it's that you're arguing something immaterial. Therefore, what is the point?


This whole thread is about reef vs. planted tanks. My comment was on the thread topic. Is yours?


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## digitalreefer (Aug 15, 2007)

JenThePlantGeek said:


> I don't support destroying the reefs for the hobby.


Nothing wrong with liking one better, but I just want to clarify something. A reef tank is much like a planted tank in that there are endless possibilities, and many responsible reefers (including myself) are making the effort to only buy aquacultured corals, inverts, and fish. Many reefers are making their own live rock, and setting up frag swaps to buy/sell/trade corals that they have grown in their own tanks.

In addition, most fish that are taken from the reef are caught in a reef friendly manner, and cyanide caught fish are avoided by all reefers due to their mortality rate.

I love my reef tank, but I also love diving and so I don't want to see the reefs destroyed any more than you.


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## addo (Apr 20, 2007)

digitalreefer said:


> Nothing wrong with liking one better, but I just want to clarify something. A reef tank is much like a planted tank in that there are endless possibilities, and many responsible reefers (including myself) are making the effort to only buy aquacultured corals, inverts, and fish. Many reefers are making their own live rock, and setting up frag swaps to buy/sell/trade corals that they have grown in their own tanks.
> 
> In addition, most fish that are taken from the reef are caught in a reef friendly manner, and cyanide caught fish are avoided by all reefers due to their mortality rate.
> 
> I love my reef tank, but I also love diving and so I don't want to see the reefs destroyed any more than you.


What he said


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

That's what local marine reef club frag swaps are all about
No need.

You can also use marine algae instead, these grow real fast and have no impact on reefs because.they are algae and fast growing, but still have lots of color and diversity:










I guess you can have the best of both worlds, but the effort is more than reef tank.

That's the trade off there.

Still, is this a marine reef or a planted tank?
Technically, it's still a planted tank, but lots of pretty colors and diversity.

However, if I try to enter such a tank into a planted tank contest, the contest powers that be ........balk, every one of them.

So it's not a planted tank either by *their definition.
*
what the heck..............

Not a reef either.

It's hard to suggest one biotope is better than another, I dearly love Tangy's/Malawians, Reefs, FW soft water fish, Killifish, Macro algae, plants etc.

regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Those of us with kids are always asked to get a reef tank becuase of that little ost fish nemo, however thats all my kids wanted until they saw the rams, and angels and various colors of tetras we got , tank has a sand bottom and tons of color due to various forms of red, yellow, and green plants mixed with dark wood.................

Worked out for me, but maybe someday I will get the chance to try a reff tank I would like the experence.


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## evil_monkey (Feb 27, 2006)

I loved my reef, it was stunning

dated pic









my reef has just went through a similar "crash" for no reason to be seen, I have lost so many of my corals (sps) that I have thought of tearing it down and using the lighting for a nice planted tank.

I wonder if the lighting would be ok? 175w metal halide and 2x39 t5.


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## icliao (Jun 9, 2007)

I love them both! So no argument on which is better.

My Planted tank:









My Reef tank:


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Wow. That's one heck of a reef tank you got there.


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## ScottCooper (Aug 21, 2007)

Yes, if I had those 2 tanks, I'd be content as well!

I've been reefing hard for a while now via a store I owned, and maintenance work I do for others - and one nano of my own, and I'm going back to planted. I think the initial draw is all the colors and oddities of the ocean, but as noted earlier, it's the zen thing that's bringing me back to planted. In fact, I'm working on resurecting a dormant planted aquaria club in Central Illinois.


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## speakerguy (Jul 1, 2004)

I look at the number of successful planted tanks I see, and the number of successful reef tanks I see. The former outnumbers the latter, by a good margin. 

There are a lot of people out there with a few thousand in their reefs that honestly I wouldn't want in my basement much less on display in the living room. A bad reef tank looks way worse than a bad planted tank. I know, I've had a bad reef tank - skimped on everything, bad lighting, etc. I still loved it and enjoyed watching corals grow ever so slightly week by week, and all the interesting little things in there with them. But a spouse would have divorced me over having it on the kitchen bar. 

Reef tanks really need their own viewing room. They don't tend to blend with anything but very modern / minimalist/ 'cold' colored rooms due to the high K lighting and hues of the corals. But a good reef tank like posted above is deserving of its own special viewing room (as is the planted tank).

But in a living space, planted tanks blend much better like has been said before. 

Also, planted tanks seem more of an art to me. Reef keepers are still figuring out the science of their hobby - I'd wager that in 10 years, live rock will be seen as a major folly in the hobby, just like we look back on trickle filters that we "had" to have. They're definitely improving over the last decade though. Many many more successful tanks esp wrt hard corals. 

Plant folks, however, are much more skilled in aquatic 'art' than reefers They tend to do their LR layouts at the start thinking 'that looks good', but they don't think "I want this growth form of X coral right here on this rock". They don't plan the layout like planted tank folks seem to do. Even if it's not the horrible 'reef wall' the layouts still tend to lack something. This is sometimes helped by coral growth but not all corals really do that much growing in captivity. 

FWIW, I'm a reefer that's going planted this next time around.


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## GoingPostal (Aug 29, 2007)

I'm a reefer that's trying to get into planted tanks, I've never done freshwater and really not a huge fan of most of your fish but I am hoping to have a school of fish which is not possible in my reefs (nanos). I'm really impressed by the general look and aquascaping of the nice planted tanks which is what caught my eye but I love the corals of my corals and watching them eat. :icon_lol:


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## McgJosh (Jun 4, 2006)

speakerguy said:


> I look at the number of successful planted tanks I see, and the number of successful reef tanks I see. The former outnumbers the latter, by a good margin.
> 
> There are a lot of people out there with a few thousand in their reefs that honestly I wouldn't want in my basement much less on display in the living room. A bad reef tank looks way worse than a bad planted tank. I know, I've had a bad reef tank - skimped on everything, bad lighting, etc. I still loved it and enjoyed watching corals grow ever so slightly week by week, and all the interesting little things in there with them. But a spouse would have divorced me over having it on the kitchen bar.


I agree. I had a 29 gallon reef for a little while and I could not keep algae under control despite having a refugium full of macro algae, a protein skimmer, and light feeding for only two small fish. 

I just setup a planted tank and it is just as interesting to look at, but much easier to keep looking good. 

I think if I were to go back and try a reef again, knowing what I know now, I would be much more successful, but for now I am happy with my planted tank. My planted tank also cost less than half of what my reef did to setup, although I do have a low tech planted tank and it was a high-tech reef.


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## speakerguy (Jul 1, 2004)

Whether it starts out that way or not, they all become high-tech eventually


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Opinion: Having only experienced FW tanks I know nothing about the SW side of the hobby save for what I've read/seen/others have told me. That being said heres a little story:

Recently, my wife and I went to the Seattle aquarium. They just did a big remodel with a huge 120,000 gallon exhibit called _Washington Waters_ with a *39' X 17'* viewing window. Its a huge display of local fish, showing off some of the neat species we have in the NW; awe inspiring to say the least. The reason I mention this first is I've always found this kind of SW display really neat _despite its lack of bright colors and vibrant fish_. I realize its not a reef tank but it's saltwater none the less and I have always thought it would be awesome to keep a tank such as this vs a SW reef tank. 

Back on track. As we strolled through the aquarium looking at each exhibit intently, I wished that there were some of the amazing FW displays that I'd viewed on places like PT/ADA/etc. Surely tanks such as these would captivate audiences like the SW tanks. I thought more on the subjects and realized that I've never seen a FW display in any aquarium I've been to (save for the salmon there). I think the reason for the lack of representation is 2 fold. One, everyone can get a FW tank. It's easy to go to a LFS and get all you need for $50 bucks. As a result, I believe people think that FW can be kind of boring or mundane, "that dumb tank I have sitting on my dresser". They don't want to spend $15 bucks to see a miniature bubbling shipwreck :hihi: . Two, SW has greater diversity. An aquarium has a much broader field to choose from even if it just offers SW. There are so many different critters in the ocean you could probably never display them all.

This all relates back to the individual as well. You can have the most basic: bowl with a gold fish to the most advanced: mega uber reef. A basic SW tank is going to require more of a commitment than a basic FW tank. On the other hand, SW offers a greater variety of species. You have to decide how much of your money and time you want to invest in a tank. Obviously, both FW and SW can be expensive and labor intensive.

In the end, the aquarium was neat but like I stated before, I would have liked to have seen some FW planted displays, if only a couple. FW and SW bring something different to the table and both complement each other in my opinion. 

After stumbling across aquascaping a little over a year ago, I'm hooked for life. The peaceful flow of the fish folding through the green is very relaxing for me. It's also very appealing to me to create an environment where an aquatic creature feels like its home. Trying my best to think like a fish, it seems that I would feel most appropriate swimming amongst the leaves of a lush plant. I believe that any SW or FW tank enthusiast should try to make that a goal and instead of creating unnatural "fruit baskets" strive to create a beautiful habitat for their fish.


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## adamP (Apr 26, 2012)

AlGee said:


> Traitors, all of you!




agreed!!


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## Lurch98 (Oct 7, 2011)

Wow, uber necro, 5 years old.


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## D3monic (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't miss mixing salt water.


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