# Need Some Help Gammarus, aka Scud



## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

This new tank was set up earlier in the year, the one that caused the Disk think in the back~~~~ 
Now has a new problem. I ordered some shrimp and one was a tiny tiny baby. Was looking at the tank the other night and noticed this little thing flying and crawling around did not look like a shrimp...gusess what it's not. 
I think they are commonly called a scud. I have one. Have no idea how I got it, it's has to go, I want to use this tank for breeding shrimp. It is the 14T with Amazonian I soil. I only have 5 shrimp in there and could get them out. What is the best course of action. 

Have never had anything in one of my tanks before. 
New word concerning shrimp tanks.....QUARANTINE!!!!!!
I quarantine everything else, chalk that up to a blond moment. 

How do I fix this. Tank is heavily planted. I have tried to trap it, it's not interested. This is the only tank that is effected. After reading last night I am scared. From what I'm reading you almost have to tear the tank down? Yes?? NO???

Advise..Help...Direction Please.
Thank You Karen


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## Esox lucius (Feb 17, 2009)

I dont think you need to worry about gammarus in the tank, they are herbivores and feed primarily on algae and plant matter, they will not bother your shrimp.


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Scuds don't bother shrimp and in fact, they behave just like shrimp. I think they're adorable to be honest. They'll help eat uneaten food, clean algae a little and just swim around acting cute. 
Unless you hate the sight of them, then there's really no threat. 


I wish I had scuds :< I think they're cute and I want to be able to breed them for my small fish to eat! Hehehehhe....


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Did a web search for images after seeing this string. They look almost like sand fleas and by comments on behavior I think they would be cool to have.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

They you'all come & get'um LOL
I have one...and more than likely more on the way!!!
This one is quite personable. Will come up the the glass with me looking nose to nose and show off... I guess I could pull the shrimp and throw in some goldfish, they would take care of it. Just not long term.


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

I don't think they breed asexually, so if you know for sure you only have one, then you don't have much to worry about.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

I LOVE YOU!!!!
That was actually my next question!!!!!


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## Esox lucius (Feb 17, 2009)

Ebichua said:


> I don't think they breed asexually, so if you know for sure you only have one, then you don't have much to worry about.


you got itroud:

scuds are awesome IMO, they are closely related to pill bugs, sowbugs, roly pollies or whatever you want to call them (Amphipods) trout love them too


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

Double LOVE!!!

OK worse case scenario if this wonderful little creature is perhaps a female and she arrive with child aka eggs on board. What small fish could I add to a shrimp tank that might munch away at her little ones but would not harm baby shrimp?


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Cocobid said:


> Double LOVE!!!
> 
> OK worse case scenario if this wonderful little creature is perhaps a female and she arrive with child aka eggs on board. What small fish could I add to a shrimp tank that might munch away at her little ones but would not harm baby shrimp?


Unfortunately, none. All fish that will eat scuds (adult or young) will probably eat baby shrimp too. 

Do I still get to keep the love? :redface:


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

Wellll let me think~~~~~~~Yes 
Just hope these little rascals don't reproduce. 
I actually read somewhere that they are an indicator of great water quality. LOL 
Those were the exact works Errrrrrr


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

They're the same care as shrimp, so in terms of sensitivity levels, scuds are as fragile/hardy as shrimp. With this being said, if you can reproduce shrimp, you can reproduce scuds.

Ammonia spikes generally pluck off shrimp first, scuds included.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

scuds are much tougher than shrimps. be carefull what you wish for. with no natural predators, the population will explode. once they get established (it only takes one prego female) you pretty much will never be able to get rid of them. i have had to tear down tanks completely and let them dry out to eliminate them from my shrimp tanks. scuds love mosses and will strip them bare in no time. they dont bother normal healthy shrimp, but if hungry and in large numbers, they will take down newly molted shrimp. they basically eliminated a yellow shrimp colony of mine. the best analogy would be those tribbles on that star trek episode (man i'm old), cute in small numbers, but hell when they reproduce and you cant get rid of them.

if you want to keep them, i would remove the one you have (turkey baster works great) to another container and breed them there. they make great foods for puffers and most fish as well. as for water parameters, i have had them breed in brackish water so they are definately not picky. the breeding does seem to go down though the more acidic the water. mine stopped breeding entirely at around ph 6.0, thats why i keep my CRS tanks at ~5.7 to minimize the chances of a re-infestation. here in Hawaii at least, they infest every tank and freshwater way. not a problem in tanks with fish to keep the population in check (darter tetras and dwarf puffers love them), but a problem for me anyway in invert only tanks.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

Let's just imagine I pulled the shrimp and wanted to raise the ammonia levels, how could I do this. Would this kill the eggs to, what about subterranean scuds or eggs. What about the plants.
I really want this thing out of the tank. With my luck with this tank we will have a thriving colony of scuds in no time. Really they may be cute but I think in the long run it's better to cut my losses with this and find a way to get rid of it. I can pull all the plants, move to a bucket and try to get the little rascal. 
Anyone with a game plan that I could follow.

Oh will be happy to ship the little fellow LOL


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

With all the love floating around in this string is anybody getting married?


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

wont work. i have had them survive in pretty nasty water conditions with no problems. stick a piece of moss in the tank and just watch for it to come out, turkey baster is best for catching one or two of the things.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

I am going to take the tank down and start fresh. 
A few questions if anyone could help. 

1. The Ecco, would running PP through the filter over night kill the eggs?
2. The plants that are in there would PP kill the eggs also. 
I really hate to do this but with this being a shrimp breeding tank I just don't want these things in there taking over. 
With the water conditions that I keep things thrive.
Oh this tank~~~~~~ will it ever end with the problems we have had from the start.
Thank You Karen


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Uh... scud eggs aren't laid onto anything like snails would. They're very similar to shrimp, as I stated before. So if you have eggs in the tank, you should see your scuds carrying them under their abdomen, like shrimp do. 
If your scuds are clear, then you're safe. 

You seem to be overreacting a bit. Shrimp tanks always get one of these random critters into their tank, one way or another. Whether it be hydra, planaria, limpets, cyclops and so on. In your case, scuds (for now). Just be happy they are shrimp friendly and adorable. I have seen a tank with CRS (A-S grade) with scuds in the tank. It doesn't look overpopulated with scuds. Looks like a good 50/50 or so to me. CRS pops out more though, since scuds are really small. But in any case, you can always just scoop some out when they get to be too much for your liking and feed it to fish or something.

I'm just trying to give you an alternative, before you take down the tank. It just seems unnecessary for such a huge course of action  But to each his/her own! 

Good luck with whatever you do. Just remember that scuds don't lay eggs. They carry them around.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

Ok!! I probably am overreacting a little, it's just I don't want these in the tank. If this was a female and she had given birth what could I do to the tank and the plants to kill these little things. Would a PP dip of the plants kill it?
I cannot reach well with this back thing. So what I did was pull the plants. We have a brown mess. Am about to drain the tank down and find the little critter. Will also pull the shrimp. They are swimming around. 

I'm going to get banned for asking so many questions, but all the responses have help so much.


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

you can always just dry out the tank if you really don't want it. They shouldn't be able to survive. No chemicals this way that may potentially harm your shrimp once you refill it back up. Or you can just OD on excel like crazy, it'll kill them all. Do big WC after before adding shrimp.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

There is about 1/2" of water in tank, above the soil line. I have seem it just not able to catch it. Let's assume I catch it, if I OD with Excel would that kill any offspring if they were in the soil. I could leave the amount of water that is in there now and Excel it. 
Really am LOVING the help here!!!!


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

It should kill the offspring, if any.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

Night Crawling Part 1
Momma is officially off Scud duty and headed in the direction of a frost cold margarita followed by a schooner of two of ale.

Night Crawling Part 2
Momma is then officially coming home and going hunting for night crawlers.

Good Evening All & wish me happy hunting.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

Night fall came and went still no sighting of the illusive Scud. 
Time for evasive measure. Exceled the tank. Letting it sit. The water in the tank is in the 50's. Either today or tomorrow will do some water changes and see if it is by chance alive. I only saw one. That is a good thing. 
_
On a side note of why I want this little creature out of our tanks_
_I'm am part of the local APC group and we are always exchanging something. Really hate to have something in one of my tanks that could infect someone else's. To tear some of those tanks down is a small fortune. I really don't want that hanging over my head!!!_


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

I envision you throwing the tank out of a window and burning the crushed glass and plants with a flamethrower to kill the scud. 

Personally, I'd just leave it in to see what happens. But if you dont want to OD with excel, you can probably kill it with extremely high CO2 if you have pressurized.


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## Cactus Bastard (Jun 5, 2007)

It's a shame you can't keep the scud alive, but I understand your reasons. 

I've heard of people having big problems with scuds completely overrunning their shrimp tanks, but just as often they are a welcome inhabitant. I had a couple scuds in one of my tanks for maybe 8 months, and thought they were pretty awesome. They were definitely breeding, and I occasionally saw a smaller one, but within a year or so I stopped seeing them altogether


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## docsoldlady (Mar 9, 2009)

Man a little creature caused all this ruckus? I would have said send it on my way I love all inverts, scuds included...hope you figure it out soon enough.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

if you dont want to kill the bacteria in the gravel, od excel ( i mean 4-6x dosage). or to guarantee death, let it dry out completely and start over. check the plants though, they can latch on pretty well. they burrow, so you may not see them all the time.


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

I actually paid someone so I could get scuds. They are often used as a fish food. They behave much like shrimp, but hide in the gravel. They mainly come out at night. I got my scuds about 2 yrs ago and they gradually died out after about a year. I think because I don't overfeed my tanks and they did not have enough food to eat. My water quality is excellent, except nitrates are a little high at 40ppm. Maybe that's what killed them, long term exposure to nitrates. 

But the scuds won't hurt shrimp or plants and fish love to eat them.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

there not a problem in small numbers. its only when their populations explode and there is a lack of predators (fish) to keep them in check, as tends to happen in invert only tanks. thats when they do major damage to mosses and if hungry enough, will take down weak or newly molted shrimps. i actually catch them from my shrimp tanks and feed them to my fish. but as the original poster indicated, its a shrimp only tank, so they will be an issue eventually.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

I've heard that they will attack fry and shrimp if they are hungry. I would recommend removing the shrimp and pouring a bottle of peroxide in there. It'll kill the scud and in a couple of days, the water will be fine again.


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## Cocobid (Feb 25, 2007)

Tank is still down not empty just letting the filter catch up, I plan on re installing what plants have made it through the scud removal. Look I thought the little guy was cute, really cute. If this was any other tank would have no problem keeping it. Had personality would play along the glass with you. But in a tank with no upward food chain they will explode. This is just a shrimp tank. I OD with Excel and used some dewormer. That took care of anything and everything. Filter is fine just letting this tank settle a little.


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