# Low Light/No Co2 Tank Help



## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

Neither ground cover plant is really going to carpet densely without CO2. Glosso is probably your best bet though. I've grown it in lower light tanks without Co2, and it spreads out(sometimes grows vertical if light is low), just takes a while.


----------



## aereolis (Mar 14, 2009)

Hemianthus callitrichodes (aka dwarf baby tears) is seen primarily as a plant requiring high light and high co2


----------



## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

aereolis said:


> Hemianthus callitrichodes (aka dwarf baby tears) is seen primarily as a plant requiring high light and high co2


HC will grow without co2.. it will just grow really slow, and tends to grow vertical. It definitely does better(actually carpets) with high light/co2.


----------



## nicks7.1985 (Aug 11, 2010)

is 108 watts of ho florescent enough light for a 55 gallon?

what would be better ...130 watts of compact florescent or 108 watts of HO florescent


----------



## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

nicks7.1985 said:


> is 108 watts of ho florescent enough light for a 55 gallon?
> 
> what would be better ...130 watts of compact florescent or 108 watts of HO florescent


Hoppy is your man for these crazy lighting questions.. where is he? :biggrin:

It depends on what sort of lighting you'll be going for. I would think that 108 watts of T5HO would be more light than 130 of PC, but I could be wrong. 
So depending on what plants you'll be growing, and whether you plan on running CO2, you'll have to choose your lighting accordingly.

So basically, what plants are you going to grow? Do you want a High light w/ CO2 setup? How far from the substrate do you plan on having the lights?


----------



## Clare12345 (Dec 20, 2008)

Look into the marsilia minuta. That could create a carpet-like density under low light.


----------



## CuzIsaidSo (May 5, 2010)

where can I find some M. minuta?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

CuzIsaidSo said:


> I have a 75g tank that I'll be putting Exoxdon Tetras in. I'll be using shop lights with 2 plant growth bulbs (8500k) & 2 5500k bulbs... 1.5 wpg, no Co2, flourite or another plant substrate and will be dosing with ferts. I'd like to try to create a bonsai type tree with x-mas moss and have some blyxa japonica in the midground. I want to have a carpet of dwarf baby tears or glossostigma, which ground cover plant would be best for my setup ?


I don't think you're picking the right plants for your setup- those all do much better in at least medium light, and definitely better with CO2.

If your shop lights are T12s you'll probably need more than 2 bulbs. Even 3 bulbs will still be extremely low light- those things lose a lot of their wattage to heat rather than light production. T8s or T5 (NO) would be much better choices.

I agree Marselia minuta would be a better choice for a carpet.

And Echinodorus tenellus or Dwarf Sagitarria would be better choices than Blyxa.


----------



## CuzIsaidSo (May 5, 2010)

Thanks, I'll use dwarf sag or E. tenellus. I'll have 4 t8 bulbs, 128 total watts

Would Marsilea hirsuta work ?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IME the other Marselia species need much more light.

It's better that you're using T8s rather than T12s, but your tank is still EXTREMELY low light. Do you have individual refectors behind all your bulbs?


----------



## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

CuzIsaidSo said:


> Thanks, I'll use dwarf sag or E. tenellus. I'll have 4 t8 bulbs, 128 total watts
> 
> Would Marsilea hirsuta work ?


Should work. Very similar in requirements to M. Minuta and M. Quadrifolia.
If it starts growing vertical, increase lighting until it starts to spread out.


----------



## CuzIsaidSo (May 5, 2010)

1st Thanks for everyone who posted something. As you probably can tell IDK what I'm doing so I need alll the help I can get. This is my 2nd live plant tank but with my 1st tank I stayed very simple just jungle vals, dwarf sag & amazon swords. This will be my 1st attept at a more advanced planted tank so I appreciate all the help.

OK since you guys are saying what I wanted to do isn't right for what I want, I started looking for another lighting setup. I found a t5ho fixture 216w (4x54w) w/ 4 LED... would this be enough lighting ? Also I've decided on using eco-complete for substrate and I've started studying DIY yeast Co2 but the more I read the more I became concerned about the fish that would be in the tank, how dangerous is a DIY Co2 to fish ?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I wouldn't even try DIY CO2 on a tank this size, it would be almost impossible to get decent levels and distribution through the tank. 

I also wouldn't put T5HO over this tank at all (not any amount) unless you also get a pressurized CO2 setup and go with a full-on high tech setup. T5HO is VERY powerful lighting- I run 108 watts of T5HO over my own low tech 90gal and it's a challenge to keep algae in check without CO2; I run about a 6-7 hour photoperiod and that's all it can take.

If you want to stick with low tech, I'd get one or two of these Coralife T5NO fixtures instead- http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...7/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight48

One fixture would be enough it you stick with very easy plants like Java ferns, anubias, mosses, crypts, swords, etc. Adding a second fixture would allow you to grow a low light carpet and keep more low light stem plants.


----------



## CuzIsaidSo (May 5, 2010)

I only want to put xmas moss (attached to driftwood), dwarf sag or E. tennellus midground & a carpet plant. Would the fixture I mentioned before or 2 of the fixtures you mentioned be better for me to for those plants and nice carpet plant ?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd go with the 2x Coralifes.


----------



## CuzIsaidSo (May 5, 2010)

with x2 coralifes would I be able to get some gloss or dwarf baby tears as carpet & blyxa japonica for midground ?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

CuzIsaidSo said:


> with x2 coralifes would I be able to get some gloss or dwarf baby tears as carpet & blyxa japonica for midground ?


IME you'd have much better with all of those plants with pressurized CO2 on the tank.


----------



## CuzIsaidSo (May 5, 2010)

Is there any low cost DIY Co2 that I could use on a 75g ?

If I can't get better plants with the x2 coralife I'll probably just go with 4 t8 bulbs and save $$$. 1 coralife is about the same price as the t8 fixtures w/ bulbs, would I be better off with the 1 coralife or the t8's ?

So the only carpet plants I could use is M. minuta but all I could find is M.hirsuta... would the M. hirsuta work ?


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

CuzIsaidSo said:


> Is there any low cost DIY Co2 that I could use on a 75g ?


Diy won't work. I read that some get a paint ball can or fire hydrand on craigslist.org and make a pressurized co2 system. Rex Griggs has instructions on how to make one.


CuzIsaidSo said:


> If I can't get better plants with the x2 coralife I'll probably just go with 4 t8 bulbs and save $$$. 1 coralife is about the same price as the t8 fixtures w/ bulbs, would I be better off with the 1 coralife or the t8's ?


Coralife is normal output. It doesn't have a good reflector. I have found to get light down to the the bottom of the tank it is best to have a light system with good reflectors. Perhaps an AH supply retrofit kit would work for you.


CuzIsaidSo said:


> So the only carpet plants I could use is M. minuta but all I could find is M.hirsuta... would the M. hirsuta work ?


I don't know but I know dwarf hair grass would work. I had it growing in 29 gallon tank with 3 T8 bulbs without injecting Co2.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'll need 3x T8 bulbs to get the same amount of light you'd get from 2x T5NO bulbs.

IDK anyone who has Marselia hirsuta, I never see it for sale in the S&S, so my guess would be it's not an easy Marselia to keep. I'd go with M. minuta. 

It really sounds to me like you've got your heart set on some CO2-dependent plants, and won't be happy with this tank till you've set it up with pressurized CO2 and gone high tech.


----------



## CuzIsaidSo (May 5, 2010)

I would like to get a pressurized Co2 but I can't afford to spend $300+ right now (school clothes for twins gets expensive) and I really don't want to charge anything.

Would M. minuta even work with x4 t8 w/ eco complete or would I be setting myself up for failure ? If it would work I can't find M. minuta anywhere... Where can I find some ?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd get some M. minuta from another hobbyist. Look in the Swap and Shop here on the forum, and post a WTB ad if no one has any posted for sale right now.

And I think it would stay alive under 4x T8, but probably take a century to fill into a nice carpet. :hihi:


----------



## monkeyfish (Jul 5, 2010)

If you go with the coralife T5no fixtures, check out petblvd.com. Last I checked it was around $ 45 there. 
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> If you want to stick with low tech, I'd get one or two of these Coralife T5NO fixtures


I assume you mean this light
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/3159697619_3102f251a7.jpg

How about Microsword. You would just need to add root tabs.

Check out this light by Deep Blue Professional, which is sold at Pet Blvd. It has a good reflector. I googled petblvd company for reviews and only found 1 neg review, concerning uv, and they resolved the issue. JacobL uses this light system for his tanks. I think with light you could grow marsilia hirsuta with the addition of API root tabs. For they contain Iron sulfate, Nitrogen, Potassium carb, and Potassium sulfate. Some plants can adjust to low light with the addition of iron.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Hilde said:


> I assume you mean this light
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/3159697619_3102f251a7.jpg
> 
> 
> Check out this light by Deep Blue Professional, which is sold at Pet Blvd.


Yes, that first is a pic of the Coralife T5NO.

The 2nd fixture you linked would need the Actinic bulb replaced, so that would add significantly to the cost.


----------

