# 60x45x45 rimless braceless starphire tank



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Looks fantastic garuf. Do you intend to maintain such a steep slope in there? And is that manzanita from PlantedBox.com? And who manufactured the tank? I'll be interested to hear more about that DIY LED build.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Thanks, Devin. 
Yeah I always go with pretty steep slops I've found that while using clay based substrates you can pretty happily have your substrate at around 45 degrees as long as you have good root mass. Since this is probably much less, raising around 15cm over a 30cm distance I imagine it will be fine. I intend to use crypts which are pretty good at the whole keeping stuff in place game. 

Yes the Mazi is from Pb, James and Mark are really good guys and have treated me super well with all of the equipment and needs. I just hope I can borrow some of their talent and do it justice. I wouldn't mind Marks camera skills, mine are so poor it's embarrasing. 

The tank is by Aquariums LTD, it's a nice tank but I had an issue where the stand arrived damaged and I had to re attach it on the opposite side of the stand since the original side was so badly wrenched damaged no screw would hold the weight of the door. 

Regarding the LED luminaire I've been hording information for the last 6 months or so, it'll be a 21 led luminaire mounted on, providing I can find one, an ex industrial heat sink each string of 7 leds will be spread to give me chance to shift between levels of light without light pooling and be powered by ideally a silent (fanless) ATX power supply. The only part I haven't really resolved in my head is how I'd control each string of led's on timers without having to use 3x atx's which would be very energy negligent. 
The only other thing would be the heatsinks, if I can't find a suitable large on then I'd use multiple little ones thermal greased to the LED mount to give maximum heat dispersion. In an ideal world I'd like to run fanless on the luminaire but I don't think this will be an option unfortunately. 
In the meantime I plan to grow out the plants under 48 watts of t5, this gives 1.6wpg which after seeing Toms 60Gallon cube with 110w or 1.7wpg has bouyed what I feel should be possible and I think should be just about enough to grow out anything, I can't be too sure though, I'll consceed that all my tanks have all had closer to 1 watt per litre than one watt per gallon so I'm breaking new ground. If any one has any input on this lower light level I'd be more than welcome to hear it.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

A much better photo which give a better idea of the masses of depth and the 'choatic' wood and rock placement.









Tank in-situ, The fairy lights aren't my intervention, Gf's are very persuasive creatures.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Had a fidldle with the rocks, tried to make more use of the depth. Didn't really work. I liked what I had so I tried to keep it much the same and I think that's been the stumbling block.


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Nice! This is going to look great! What kind of plants are you planning on? 

Cinderblock walls, stickers everywhere, and girlfriend lights could only mean one thing..... You are at the greatest place on earth..... COLLEGE!


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Yup, University all the way. Second year but had a bad turn with bullying flatmates and had to go back into halls. 

Plants wise I don't know, bolbitits and narrow leaf are the only plants I really know. I want to use anubias again but I dunno what. Most likely petite or the slightly bigger bonsai.


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## Tamelesstgr (Jan 11, 2008)

Sweet looking scape, looking forward to seeing this one come together.


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## thewesterngate (Jan 22, 2010)

I can't take the taunting! Fill this bad boy up. :hihi: The hardscape is gorgeous, I'd love to see some crypts in there.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

No water yet, Not happy with it just quite. I want to add more intricate rock work along the front and balance the wood a bit more. That and I've gotta save for the plants. Typical student really.



















Just a quick pair to try and highlight how it's constructed and the depth I have to deal with. It should give a nice amount of variation for contrasting/complimenting plant choices. Tropica have just announced a load of new plants that will be hitting mine, and the worlds shores in the late summer so I'll no doubt want to have space for those!


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

Nice start! Can't wait to see it filled and planted  By the way I love those fairy lights :hihi: 
Are you gonna leave the front bare bottom?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

By bare do you mean not planted or just glass? I intend for the front to be a white sand foreground with graded gravels leading into the planting.


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

garuf said:


> By bare do you mean not planted or just glass? I intend for the front to be a white sand foreground with graded gravels leading into the planting.


I meant just glass  But I see what you trying to do, sounds cool can't wait to see more


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

You know what I've always found to be really attracitve, is the plain sand foreground that's the colour of the ADA Nile sand. Not to promote that specific product, but that colour I've always liked. I've always found white, because it's so clean and pure, is so bright,and the tiniest bit of off colouring detracts from it.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Cheers Searun, Thanks for the tip.
I won't be using any ADA products on this tank. The price has gone through the roof in the UK and they really aren't worth it at the end of the day. The sand I have is a silica play sand, it's sort of a tan colour, I'd say it's probably closest to Ash, (the wood). I can custom mix sand from other pet shop brands to suit, I simply don't ever want to spend £40 ($75) on a bag of sand! 

I tore the scape down and redid the rocks just tonight, will snap some photos, I don't think it's an improvement but it's much more intricate. Which is probably a mixed blessing.


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

Also, I'm not sure what livestock you were thinking of, but I've heard from people that silica can be dangerous depending on the fish and their foraging habits. I have no experience with this, but it's always something I've kept in mind. If you want, you can search more into it, but I've heard that the silica is sharp and can hurt fish such as corries or any other bottom inhabiting fish, including those that are sand sifters like geophagus' and the sort.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

SearunSimpson said:


> Also, I'm not sure what livestock you were thinking of, but I've heard from people that silica can be dangerous depending on the fish and their foraging habits. I have no experience with this, but it's always something I've kept in mind. If you want, you can search more into it, but I've heard that the silica is sharp and can hurt fish such as corries or any other bottom inhabiting fish, including those that are sand sifters like geophagus' and the sort.


It's not a problem. My Gymnogeophagus sift all day


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

SearunSimpson said:


> Also, I'm not sure what livestock you were thinking of, but I've heard from people that silica can be dangerous depending on the fish and their foraging habits. I have no experience with this, but it's always something I've kept in mind. If you want, you can search more into it, but I've heard that the silica is sharp and can hurt fish such as corries or any other bottom inhabiting fish, including those that are sand sifters like geophagus' and the sort.


I have had plain old silica sand(all real sand is silica sand...) and never had a problem with cories, dwarf cichlids, firemouths, etc, and they all sift constantly.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I was always under the impression that silica sand is the best sand for sifters since it's the softest/least sharp. It's what's recommended by several Cory breeders and Aspistogramma breeders so I figured it'd have no ill effects. Coral sand is said to the one to avoid. From Handling ADA's Sarawak (?) sand it's much more course than the Silica sand I have, the grains are larger too I can't imagine it being an issue. A lot of fishkeeping advice on the web is spurious at best so I tend to trust people with a science inflection rather than old habits. I'd be adding salt to my tank, doing water changes once every other month and using a heating cable otherwise!


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Don't really like either of these but they give an idea of the scapes I've been kicking about while trying to get a clearer idea of what I want from this scape. I'm thinking I'll only really tweek the rock work from the first since I was so won over by it. I'm certain there's room for improvement, I just can't see it at the moment. I'm more than open to suggestions and hints.


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

I like the second one the most, as the rocks are more forward. Once it's all planted and filled in and established, I feel it would be better to have the rocks sorta creeping out, or latently visibly beneath the overgrowth. If the rocks are too far back, like a few are in the first pic, they will be completely hidden from view once the plants fill in.


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## zeldar (Jun 24, 2009)

I like the wood arrangement from the first picture and the rock arrangement from the second. Its gonna look great either way once its planted.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

1st picture is a lot better


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I like the 1st scape better as well


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

The first of the photos posted today is my favorite. (Although I love the driftwood creeping over the rocks root-style in the second photo.)

When laying down the hardscape, I would put most of my effort and attention onto the DW; the rocks will end up as supporting characters, where the plants are the main actors, and the DW is the plot.

I think that's why I prefer the first photo. The rocks are laid as if they fell there through the force of nature.
Where in the second photo the DW looks great to me, the top right-hand straight branch pokes too far forward and throws off the balance.
In the first photo, the branch is off to the left and flows better.

What does the driftwood look like if you take the position of it in the first photo and rotate it clockwise about twenty-five degrees?

All in all, this has all the makings of a kick-ass 'scape. If you're going sand, you _have_ to put a moss, fissidens, or MP on the rocks at it's border. That's look super fresh.

Great start, garuf! 

Subscribed.

With enthusiasm.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Thanks everyone, really good to know people think it has potential. 

Thank you Ugly, I knew I could rely. 

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3307/dsc2584j.jpg
is my personal favourite still but I need to make the rock work work for me, I imagined a mossy transition with anubias and ferns creating the boundry, the rocks more or less dissappearing but that's hard to get yourhead around when you're working with the "bones" of a scape.

I really like your theatrical analogy, it's a very clever way of talking about it. I agree as I believe the plants will make or break it, just as a poor actor will spoil [STRIKE]doctor who[/STRIKE] the scape.
Of the two scapes today, (lets call them B and C and my favourite A) With scapes A and B I can fully see them planted, scape C I just can't, I look at it and I don't see a way to plant it and make full use of the height and depth. I totally agree with you re: the rocks in B, C's DW just isn't balanced. 
Is it scape C you want to see twisted? I tried no end to get everything to work with the rock work but it was one working or the other never both.
I think the differences between todays two are that in scape one I imagined the rock work as the extention of a plateau or formation bordering the sand, in the second I read Amano's guide and tried to pile on the rocks to give a good framework and height. 

Mate, I wish I could get Mini Pelia, it's about £30 ($45-50) for enough to do about 4 moss stones. It's just too expensive a plant, beautiful though.

Right, it's 6:44 and I'm suffering crippling insomnia so I really should go and get some breakfast, thank you again everyone, I'll be having some frosties and a scape.:icon_lol:


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I kept going with the scaping, this is what I hope to be the final scape, I like the tension and I'm the happiest with the rock work and depth I've been. 

I move house in a couple of weeks so I've pushed back planting so that nothing is distracting me while in the crucial start up phase. 
In other news I ordered the LED's for my luminaire so I'll be building that soon, I'll post up an intended schematic as soon as I get more than a free 10 mins. 

What d'y'all think?


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Im not an exper but the rocks are lined up and its not looking very natural. I liked your previous stone scapes but this one doesnt float my boat. Cool looking tank and this tank is gonna be awsome!


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Subtle tweaking, zip-tied everything together. Still need to choose plants.


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## jacari (Dec 1, 2009)

IMO this scape needs huge amounts of narrow leaf java fern


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Oh now that I can guarantee it will have. Bolbititis as well. I'm lost for stem choices. I was going to go for rotalla green but the distributor I use doesn't have it on it's lists.


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## benon (Feb 18, 2010)

Bolbitis is currently my favorite plant.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

It's a nice plant, I've had it grow really well and grow terribly, it really doesn't like hard water like I had before my move.


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## jacari (Dec 1, 2009)

What about mosses and anubias nana


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I have some christmas moss lined up for moss stone high-lights and for the branches. I did think about the larger embossed Anubias but I was entirely lost for choice. I liked the idea of them giving umbrella like structure to the mid levels with smaller species near to the substrate. Like I say, lost for choice. 

I'm not such a fan of crypts so I was going to use swords but a lot of people neigh-sayed it. 

The list I have available to me is:
http://www.plantedbox.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

A. Congensis seems to have leaf size and shape similar to swords but it won't get nearly as big. will you be adding any red high-light plants?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I did plan on adding one specie of red plant, yes, but I really don't know which. I'd set my hopes on Proserpinaca palustris because of it's subtler tones and interesting leave form but I can't get it for any less than £10 a pot and I'd need at least 4 making it too expensive by a long shot.

Thanks for the tip regarding the Anubias, I'm taken by Anubias barteri var. barteri for the wood as a contrast to the fronds of the ferns in form but I think it would be much too large in the long run some people claiming 50cm in height. :/ 

Do you use the same handle on all the forums, Oldpunk? If so I just saw your tank and it's very nice indeed.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I thought I'd already posted this but apparently not! This is the planting plan I have in mind, it's only very rough but it sort of gives an idea of what I'm thinking. All the areas that haven't been scribbled on I don't have a plant choice for as of yet so suggest away. The background stems are what give me most issues as almost every plant the distributor I use I have never heard of let alone seen or know the growth patterns of so it's all annoyingly very hit or miss. I'm reluctant to go Tropica, at two thirds more expensive it's an expensive premium especially when the biggest seller on the web insists on selling on plants they've grown on that often don't adapt to your tank.


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## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

Subscribed. I'm loving the hardscape! Definitely looking forward to seeing what you do with this.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Thank you, Digsy. I think I've finalised my plant list too! Things are looking up.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm looking forward to seeing this tank planted as well. I'm ordering one the exact same size here soon. Keep us posted


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

garuf said:


> Do you use the same handle on all the forums, Oldpunk?.


sorry dude - i missed that question, yes.

so what's the "finalized" plant list look like?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Thank you everyone. CL, you won't regret it one bit, the only thing you may find is you have to change how you think about foreground and hardscape height with all the depth till you have your "eye in" so to speak it can be a real challenge, I was lucky to have a seemingly infinite number of options from my Manzi order.

Oldpunk, my finalised list looks a lot like this:
Foreground:
Christmas moss
H c
Acicularis parvula ( other options are E tennelus/Lieanopsis or Blyxa japonica) 

Midground:
Hygrophilia pinnatifolia
Echinidorus parviflorus "tropica" or Cryptocorne bullosa
Staurguayne sp.
E. parvula (other options are E tennelus/Lieanopsis or Blyxa japonica)

Wood:
Anubias Barterii "coffeefolia"
Anubias Barterii var nana
Bolbititis heudellotii
Microsorum pteropus "narrow" 
Chrismas moss. 

Background:
Undulata sp "green"
H m 
Didiplis diandra
Prospincaca palustris "cuba" 
Nyphea sp. 
Possibly Limnophila aquatica, depending on what people think I really like the texture but don't want it to be the focal point plant which would throw my ideal by having two focal points.


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## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

Nice but what happened to C. helferi? That was one of my favorites when I kept it and was sad to see it drop from your list. Other than that, the list looks great. How long until you get this planted?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I'm not sure the C helfri has a place in the scape at the minute, I'll be keeping an eye out on the scape and thinking, I might decide to reinstate it, it's just a matter of whether it will tangle itself and become a nuisance if I have it in the midground as intended. 

If I get the job I have an interview for, 3 weeks time when I move into my new house. I'm very excited!


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

did you get your job? is the tank planted yet?


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Maybe it's my eyes or the photo, but that doesn't exactly look like Starphire..


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

It looks like starfire to me.


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