# algae ID and how to get rid of it



## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Hey everyone,

So this algae started on my Java Moss and I removed it since taking the picture. I don't know what kind it is. It's almost like a brown hair looking kind of algae. Any clues as to what it is? It has spread a little since I have the Java Moss issue. I increase circulation and added CO2 and that has slowed it some. But it is still present. When i pulled it out of the water, it clumps up. It is definitely hairy though. Any ideas?

Thanks


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I can't tell from that picture if it's a wadded up ball of hair algae, a nasty outbreak of staghorn algae, a rough patch of cladophora algae, or a bunch of slimy rhizocionium algae. 

Can you describe what it's like when you try to remove it and what it feels like when you touch it? Also, a FTS would help to see where the algae is located in the tank which can help is determining which kind it is.


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## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

Can you just get rid of the affected plants (it could be all of your plants), restart with healthy stems, lower lighting and photoperiod, monitor nitrates and do partial water changes.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Crispino Ramos said:


> Can you just get rid of the affected plants (it could be all of your plants), restart with healthy stems


This may not be necessary, depending on the condition of the plants. Often H2O2 and/or Excel can kill the algae which then just melts right off the plants, leaving them as if nothing had ever happened.

However, there is something that caused the algae to grow in the first place. So that must be addressed or any algae cleared out will just come right back.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I can't tell from that picture if it's a wadded up ball of hair algae, a nasty outbreak of staghorn algae, a rough patch of cladophora algae, or a bunch of slimy rhizocionium algae.
> 
> Can you describe what it's like when you try to remove it and what it feels like when you touch it? Also, a FTS would help to see where the algae is located in the tank which can help is determining which kind it is.


When I removed it, I used a metal stick and almost twisted it like you would with spaghetti noodles. It wrapped around it and broke off quite easily. Out of the water it was a dark brown and slimy to the touch. Mollies ate it in my other tank but sadly my last molly died a week ago (had a colony for 4 years, continuously breeding). The algae started on the Java moss and so far has had trouble rooting on other plants. When my frogbit was not moving, the algae got onto the roots but after I adjusted the flow, the algae remained only on the moss. 
A full tank shot (is that what FTS is?) is in my tank journal. Just took a pic of the tank a few days ago. The algae is on the Java moss on the right hand side. Branch of the driftwood. I thought that increasing circulation would do the trick. It stopped it I think but did not kill it outright. 
I hope that helps Vicki. This problem is making me pull my hair out!



Crispino Ramos said:


> Can you just get rid of the affected plants (it could be all of your plants), restart with healthy stems, lower lighting and photoperiod, monitor nitrates and do partial water changes.


I got rid of the most prominent strands of moss that were afflicted. However, the other pieces were hard to get to. I may try lower lighting and water changes. Though my nitrates were always between 5-15ppm.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

You did a great job of describing it. And what you are describing sounds like rhizocionium algae ("rhizo") (that was also my first inclination when I saw the pic, but didn't want to jump to conclusions too quickly). I have never had rhizo, and from what I've read about it, I hope I never do. It's supposed to be very difficult to get rid of.

Since it's isolated to the moss, I'd get the moss out of the tank. You don't want rhizo to spread throughout your tank. I don't know if H2O2 or Excel has any effect on rhizo, but I'd give it a try and find out. You can treat the moss in a bowl. Just change out the water with fresh tank water each day until you either get rid of all the rhizo or you give up and toss the moss (no pun intended! LOL!).

As far as the causes, take a look at the rhizo section on here to see if anything applies to your tank. If so, then that's what you need to work on correcting so it won't take over your entire tank. http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

pandamonium said:


> Though my nitrates were always between 5-15ppm.


The page I linked above listed as one of the causes of rhizo: "Low nutrient levels"

Are you dosing ferts? If not, maybe it's time to start. Low CO2 can cause it, as well. Or you could lower your lighting to better match the low nutrient/CO2.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Complexity said:


> You did a great job of describing it. And what you are describing sounds like rhizocionium algae ("rhizo") (that was also my first inclination when I saw the pic, but didn't want to jump to conclusions too quickly). I have never had rhizo, and from what I've read about it, I hope I never do. It's supposed to be very difficult to get rid of.
> 
> Since it's isolated to the moss, I'd get the moss out of the tank. You don't want rhizo to spread throughout your tank. I don't know if H2O2 or Excel has any effect on rhizo, but I'd give it a try and find out. You can treat the moss in a bowl. Just change out the water with fresh tank water each day until you either get rid of all the rhizo or you give up and toss the moss (no pun intended! LOL!).
> 
> ...


Oh crap. My tank just can't catch a break. I had ich, neon tetra disease and now this. No fish have died from it but hopefully I can get rid of this eyesore. I will remove the java moss from my tank. I guess the rhizo hitched a ride when I got it from my LFS. No more moss then. Or if I do, it will be treated already. The rhizo I think spread to my myrio, but just a small portion. It hides out in frogbit roots too but I think its to small to cause issue there. 
I dose micro ferts 1 time a week and macro I just depend on my fish to poop it all up. and decaying matter as well. I have yeast CO2 but am upgrading to pressurized CO2 soon. Should I start dosing 2 times a week?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

You have some fast growing plants and some plants known for sucking up nutrients. I'd definitely dose more than you are now. If you can go with full EI dosing, that would be best. For sure when you get pressurized CO2, you'll want to dose EI ferts.

What type/brand ferts are you using right now? If you're using dry ferts, then you're good. If you're using liquid ferts, then you're dosing mostly water.

Remember, even with all the problems you've been dealing with, the goal is to grow the plants. That's the only way out of the mess. So while you keep knocking down various issues, keep your focus on how well the plants are growing. In this case, it appears the message is to add more nutrients, so do what it says. Just watch what your plants do (including any algae), and they'll tell you what to do.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Complexity said:


> You have some fast growing plants and some plants known for sucking up nutrients. I'd definitely dose more than you are now. If you can go with full EI dosing, that would be best. For sure when you get pressurized CO2, you'll want to dose EI ferts.
> 
> What type/brand ferts are you using right now? If you're using dry ferts, then you're good. If you're using liquid ferts, then you're dosing mostly water.
> 
> Remember, even with all the problems you've been dealing with, the goal is to grow the plants. That's the only way out of the mess. So while you keep knocking down various issues, keep your focus on how well the plants are growing. In this case, it appears the message is to add more nutrients, so do what it says. Just watch what your plants do (including any algae), and they'll tell you what to do.


Yeah that I do. They grow very quickly. I just pruned my frogbit today after a week or so. I have looked at EI dosing and it seems very water change intense. I will look into doing that but while I am at school it will be a problem since my dad has to watch out for my tank. 
I am on liquid ferts now since I didn't find out about dry until after. I will dose those then. Probably just micro ferts? 
I'll keep an eye out for plant growth and algae too. Right now the growth looks good so I'm not too worried. Algae though. I will kill it.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

How are you doing your water changes? Do you have a python style water changer? If not, then you need to get one. It makes water changes a breeze.

I think you should dose micro and macro even if you continue with liquid ferts. At the very least, add root tabs.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Complexity said:


> How are you doing your water changes? Do you have a python style water changer? If not, then you need to get one. It makes water changes a breeze.
> 
> I think you should dose micro and macro even if you continue with liquid ferts. At the very least, add root tabs.


I have a siphon that I installed into my canister inflow. So I shut off the canister and then open the valve and my water goes in from there into a bucket. To fill, I have a pump that I use from the bathroom to my room. It's almost like a python but a little more work, which I don't mind much.

Ok I will have to see where to get macro ferts. I know GLA sells plantex csm? That is micro right? And right now I am using osmocote plus fertilizer in the substrate. Is that the same as root tabs?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah, the osmocote is working as root tabs. All that's meant by "root tabs" is that it's some kind of solid form of fertilizer that's put in the substrate where the plants' roots usually take it in — as opposed to fertilizers that are dissolved into the water column where the plants' leaves take it in. So a root tab refers to the _form_ of the fertilizer, but not what's actually being dosed.

Macro ferts are known as the big three: N-P-K.

N: Nitrate (KNO3)
P: Phosphate (KH2PO4)
K: Potassium (K2SO4)​Micro ferts are a combination of many elements in trace amounts.

Plantex CSM + B (includes iron)​So to ensure your plants are getting everything they need, you need to dose macros and micros. It doesn't matter what form you dose them as long as you dose them in sufficient quantities so that your plants don't run out. To make any dry fert into a liquid fert, just add water.

Here's the whole package of dry ferts at GLA: http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html

For any fert you want to mix with water before putting in the tank, you may want to also get a dosing bottle like this one: http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/dispenser-16oz.html. They have a larger bottle, but I generally prefer to use the smaller bottles since you can mix the ferts in any concentration you want, and I like to clean out the bottle and mix it fresh every couple of weeks.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Oh ok got it. I put in my osmocote maybe 3 weeks ago so I will probably add more in about 3 weeks. I heard that it lasts about 2 months in water. My plants are enjoying it so thats good 
On the algae issue, I pruned my tank and took out as much as I could by hand. The Java is being experimented on to see if I can kill it. If not then I'll toss the Java. I had to throw out some M. mattengrossense because it got a little too intense and the leaves died. 
I will look at that GLA fert pack when I have the money. Don't get paid til the end of the month  
I like that dosing bottle haha but now it's given me an idea. I'm making my own! I think it's pretty doable. 2 bottles linked with a tube. It should give me something to do in my spare time 
So when dosing the ferts, I should mix before putting it in the tank water? Some people say they just throw it in the tank which is why I ask.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

pandamonium said:


> So when dosing the ferts, I should mix before putting it in the tank water? Some people say they just throw it in the tank which is why I ask.


Most definitely keep the macros and micros separated. When they are combined, the iron is precipitated out. That's why EI dosing has macros and micros dosed on opposite days.

As far as mixing all three macros together (NPK), to be honest, I'm not sure. Long time ago, it was suggested that you not do it because there was some kind of chemical reaction where they combined or something, but now I hear it's okay. At this point, I can't honestly say if it's okay or not.

Once you put them in your tank, they become extremely diluted so then the problems of mixing them go away. So all the issues regarding mixing them is only when they are in a concentrated liquid form.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

That is good to know. I would have assumed that they came together. I guess they come in separate packages then. Once I have the funds, I will invest in some. I was thinking of setting up a plant only tank up at school to sell plants or something to make some money on the side. Though not sure how keen the FAA will be with letting me bring fertilizer.
I will keep them all separate. Even if I do not dose EI, I will be sure to keep the nutrients from mixing.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

pandamonium said:


> I was thinking of setting up a plant only tank up at school to sell plants or something to make some money on the side. Though not sure how keen the FAA will be with letting me bring fertilizer.


Be forewarned, the dry macro fertilizers look like a white powdery stuff in a ziplock baggie which can easily be mistaken for cocaine from a distance by the uneducated.

Bags of Dry Ferts vs. Bag of Cocaine:

















If you decide to bring it to school, be sure the bags have their labels and carry a receipt with you. You can even repackage the ferts before carrying them around. I put mine is tupperware spice containers to keep them super dry.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Be forewarned, the dry macro fertilizers look like a white powdery stuff in a ziplock baggie which can easily be mistaken for cocaine from a distance by the uneducated.
> 
> Bags of Dry Ferts vs. Bag of Cocaine:
> 
> ...


I'd like to nominate the first sentence of this post as best sentence ever. HAHAHA I was laughing for a good 2 minutes before writing this out. And still laughing. I will be sure to do that should I bring it up. Either that or I will order the ferts at school and ship to my dad back at home with directions. As far as I know, I think you can ship fertilizer across state lines. I will check that too.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah, we've had some good laughs over here given that I have two daughters in the young adult age group. They've brought their friends over who have seen my dry ferts with big, round, _OMG-you-mom-does-that_ eyes! LOL! :tongue:

Yes, you can ship ferts across state lines. Not a problem.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Awesome. Thanks Vicki. Everytime I need help, you give the greatest advice. Funny as well so that's always a plus


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Awe, shucks. :icon_redf

Seriously, it's my pleasure to be able to help. :smile:


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Updating on the rhizo algae. I went to AFA to ask about it and they recommended Amano shrimp followed by 2 SAE if I wanted it. As for the Java, I took it and put it into my other tank...and the rhizo was gone! What the hell? My 10 gallon community has 1 T5HO light over it on the surface, never dosed micros until now, no CO2...and yet, the rhizo was gone in a day. Also have some very resistant hair algae on my fixtures and filter tube but nothing I am bothered by...I guess filtration is a major problem/suspect? I moved my powerhead so it would circulate my frogbit, which I use as an indication of water circulation. It's better now, but now my manzanita wood has this funny hair algae coming off it. Definitely not rhizo. This is killing me haha. I can't tell the color since my water is hardcore blackwater  Right now I'm not bothered by it because its only on the driftwood but keeping an eye on it should it decide to spread.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

filtration plays a huge roll in all types of algae.
the only algae i ever get is diatoms in the beginning, green spot, or bba

i've never had the pleasure of dealing with anything but those.. algae is largely caused by low oxygen levels, and an unstable tank as far as bacteria go. good bacteria prevents much

the rest is too much light and too little c02, and 9-10 u get bba and gsa on those


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

Right now my tank is stable. I figured a great way to get rid of the rhizo. I used my suction while filtering my tank and just shook the Java moss around a bit. The rhizo got loosened and came right off. Java is clean as a whistle  My tank has been up and running for close to 9-10 weeks now so I think the bacteria colonies are established already. My lighting I was thinking about upgrading. Don't have a PAR value until I get a PAR meter from the club but its probably low light as of now.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

You can mix the macros. 
KNO3
KH2PO4
K2SO4

You can mix micros.
CSM+B
Chelated Iron. 

You should not mix
KH2PO4
with
Iron. 

These will cause a precipitate that is not available to the plants. It is not toxic, just a waste of fertilizer.
I have seen pictures of a tank where these ferts were not mixed in the bottle, but were dosed within a few minutes of each other, and the precipitate still formed. I do not remember how far apart the dosing had to be to prevent that. 
Alternate days is plenty of time, though. If you want to dose more of each I would suggest:
Dose macros M, W, F
Dose micros Tu, Th, Sa
Water change Su
or some such idea.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

I haven't tried EI dosing yet or at least dry fert dosing (I don't think I can sneak the purchase past my parents haha) When I am at school though, I will definitely do that if I decide to grow plants submerged. I may just decide on growing them emersed if I can. It would be a bit easier to manage and I wouldn't need so many parts.


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