# What is your favorite substrate? Custom/Retail



## NickMach007 (Aug 10, 2012)

Glad to see another YouTuber off the videos for a bit. I haven't posted a video in awhile since I needed a bit of a break too. 
I don't have the same amount of experience as you do, but I have been pondering the same. I will offer a slightly different perspective since I haven't tried anything other than mineralized topsoil and safe t sorb.
The only complaints I have about safe t sorb are that it is dusty and can make a mess. That and it is lightweight and can get blown around the tank until you learn how to work around that. 
In terms of aesthetics, I like the look of the Aquasoil, but given the price, I would probably opt for ecocomplete. 
But I have also heard decent things about Fluval stratum and I really like the way it looks. So I might try that at some point. 
Another idea I have been toying around with is capping one of the above substrates with sand since I think it would be easy to plant in--and I think it works well with a lot of different catfishes that I have been interested in keeping. From the best I can tell, all of the inert substrates (eco, flourite, stratum, etc) are about the same, so I think at some point it is just about whether you like the look of it or not-- or other factors like you mentioned i.e. how well it holds down plants.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

It depends. 

For low tech, I like 1/4 of Miracle Grow Potting soil. It doesn't matter what you cap it with but I like Petco black sand. The sand is attractive but still fairly course for sand.

I have never had luck with dirt in a high tech tank. I have use Flourish with great results but I have moved away from it, especially the Black Sand as I seem to scratch the glass with it, no matter how careful I am.

Right now, I am going to say AS but I haven't used it enough to really qualify it as such. It is pretty amazing how quickly roots seem to grow in plants that I am not used to seeing heavy roots in. It clouds pretty easily but not to the point of being bothersome.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Presently Seachem Flourite mixed with sand and with a little top soil below.

Michel.


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## jmsaltfish797 (Oct 27, 2012)

im using arena sand in my tank currently. its basically a mix of course sand and very fine gravel (1/8th minus). looks nice and natural, and it holds plants very well. for fertz i use some custom root tabs that i tweeked from a youtube recipe. only have a small algae bloom if i get carried away with the root tabs. i also dose with flourish twice a week.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

"2.Mineralized topsoil- I feel a little better about it considering there are less organics. But it is still dirt. What is the point."

For me the point is plants grow in dirt in nature.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Good point Frank! 

I use ADA AS, Eco, Flourite, Clay, and MTS all mixed together. I get all the pros and alot less of the cons


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## DaveFish (Oct 7, 2011)

DogFish said:


> "2.Mineralized topsoil- I feel a little better about it considering there are less organics. But it is still dirt. What is the point."
> 
> For me the point is plants grow in dirt in nature.


Haha, very true, great point. They also grow under sunlight and not in a glass box. LOL

Too messy. I don't need to use it to get amazing plant growth.


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## DaveFish (Oct 7, 2011)

chad320 said:


> Good point Frank!
> 
> I use ADA AS, Eco, Flourite, Clay, and MTS all mixed together. I get all the pros and alot less of the cons


Now that sounds like a good idea. I have done Eco and Aquasoil in the past. And I have tried Eco with MTS, but never all of them at the same time.


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## DaveFish (Oct 7, 2011)

NickMach007 said:


> Glad to see another YouTuber off the videos for a bit. I haven't posted a video in awhile since I needed a bit of a break too.
> I don't have the same amount of experience as you do, but I have been pondering the same. I will offer a slightly different perspective since I haven't tried anything other than mineralized topsoil and safe t sorb.
> The only complaints I have about safe t sorb are that it is dusty and can make a mess. That and it is lightweight and can get blown around the tank until you learn how to work around that.
> In terms of aesthetics, I like the look of the Aquasoil, but given the price, I would probably opt for ecocomplete.
> ...


I haven't tried the Stratum. I have done Eco with MTS and I have done Aquasoil with Eco. I have used Flourite in the past and don't like the overall texture, it is a lot more flat and it is super dirty. You can see that for me I can't handle mess and the reason isn't OCD it is because I am constantly rescaping little section here and there to get it just right. And slow release pellets are going to provide way more balanced nutrients than even MTS. I know you are using it right now which is fine. It is always nice to find your own method. But I am done with all that jazz. The more you get into it the easier you want it to be. That's why people turn to Neptune Apex controllers and what not. For me Eco with Osmocote+ and Aquavitro grows plants amazingly well and I don't have to work as hard and I do very little water changes. Now Aquasoil works just as good I just don't think plants root very well in it. I know everyone would probably disagree, but my plants do way better in Eco than in Aquasoil. And with shipping it IS more expensive.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Hello the crew,
I'm new to this forum and have yet to take in all of it so no surprise if I seem out of sync here.
Had tanks as a teenager but been absent since then until early 2012. I'm lease locked to 10 g or less so I cheat on it
a little. They didn't mention a limit on the number of tanks now did they ? And then you all have a tank in the living 
room and one in your bedroom right ?
I used plain fine gravel at first but then got some API First Layer "Pure Laterite". Put that at about well two 20 oz boxes
in a ten g tank and then topped it with Eco complete. I've not had long term exp. so evaluating this is without anything to 
compare it to but the plain gravel. Seems to grow a bit better but then also grows BGA better too. I should mention that 
this tank is semi-low tech. Gets Excel every few days and Leaf Zone every water change along/w Tetra Pride. Has 2 T8
bulbs of Zoo Med Tropical sun. One T8 is poor and 2 good ones is excess so I'm trying to do something of a balancing act here.
Don't know how odd this is but I don't want "amazing" plant growth. I just want healthy looking full plants. Have not looked
at many of them but the 100% low tech pictures don't look full enough for me...look a bit starved. So some kind of balance is 
key for me. Just been replanted so need to give it 60 days or so to get a better idea of how it's doing.
The other Ten g has just had new sub put in. That API Laterite mixed/w Sea Chem Original Flourite. Just been replanted also
and having a bit of trouble getting it started well because I over did the lights. Bought a T5 2 bulb fixture for it.
Hair algae exploded in it at first when the bulbs were a 6500K and a True Lumen Flora.
We'll see cause it may be a while before I balance these bulbs. Was going for some red plants and know I needed more light
but got a bit carried away/w it. The lady at my mom & pop LFS got me some Rotala Magenta I'm trying to get to grow.
Having quite a bit of trouble/w it. But I told here recently that this tank has so much iron in it I'm surprised the water don't 
rust...LOL... The original Flourite was picked due to having the highest iron content and it gets Tetra Pride at water changes.
The two bulbs are both Flora bulbs and one was labeled "Roseated" so it looks too red in there right now but the hair algae
died off when I put in an actinic plus the Roseated. So letting it be red for a while till I see how this works on the Rotala.
Going back to 1 6500K bulb would bring back the hair algae so what's next ? I've become very consistent/w daily using 
of Excel so that played in it too.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

A bit off-topic here, but:



Raymond S. said:


> Had tanks as a teenager but been absent since then until early 2012. I'm lease locked to 10 g or less so I cheat on it
> a little. They didn't mention a limit on the number of tanks now did they ?


it might be worth requesting (in writing) permission from your landlord to have a bigger tank. -Put in something about your prior experience with fishkeeping, and if you plan on making some sort of leak containment basin or something, add that too. My lease also had a 10-gallon fish tank limit, but I got permission (in writing) to go bigger. I think it's part of a standard form-letter all-purpose lease that a lot of landlords/agencies adopt, when they may not care about the issue at all (or they may, who knows...)

All depends on how your landlord is though...


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

lochaber said:


> A bit off-topic here, but:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks but tried already/ corporate owned bull fertilizer stuff...thanks again though.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

DaveFish said:


> ....They also grow under sunlight and not in a glass box....Too messy....


~True about Natural sun light. Also add to your list, many plants live in fast moving streams or muddy water, there is seldom more that one sp. in a given area, plants are not neatly pruned and usually they are chewed on, and covered with dirty bio-film. Temperature swings up & down as much as degrees a day/night cycle. Actually many of our plants are aquatic weeds that come from 3rd world drainage ditches and are fertilized by water buffalo poop. :biggrin:

~ Messy is on the hobbyist....you can't blame the dirt for your impatience/lack of skill in planting/removal :wink:

Not unlike the people that are against acylic tanks because they can scratch. Then don't be a klutz :tongue: The acrylic doesn't scratch itself. :hihi:


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

And speaking of, I had a vision...more like a nightmare..that I would go to my cousins farm, collect some horse poop, dry it
and mix it with plain fine gravel as a substrate to simulate the decaying plant matter in/on the bottom of a pond.
Has anyone ever tried this successfully ? Bet I'm asking for mega algae at the least.

BTW: I cultivate hair algae and green spot algae. It's "natural", uses ammonia/nitrates and I'm actually starting to learn to limit it...sort of...LOL...


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## Shangrila (Oct 13, 2012)

Miracle gro capped with Safe T Sorb. Excellent results, looks great, and I don't think you can find anything cheaper.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Raymond S. said:


> And speaking of, I had a vision...more like a nightmare..that I would go to my cousins farm, collect some horse poop, dry it
> and mix it with plain fine gravel as a substrate to simulate the decaying plant matter in/on the bottom of a pond.
> Has anyone ever tried this successfully ? Bet I'm asking for mega algae at the least.....


Two words...Toxic Ten

:icon_bigg


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks for saving me some time and dead whatever.


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## Elassoma_sailor (Nov 10, 2013)

I am in love with ADA aquasoil and Seachem flourite! They are by far my favorite.


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## NickMach007 (Aug 10, 2012)

*Always something new to try...*

That sounds very reasonable. Next year I may give the Eco a try. I mentioned this to my wife (breaking down the tank maybe next summer and trying a new scape) and it almost caused a divorce I think. I never used to understand why people messed around with their scapes so much, but I get it now. While the dirt isn't too dirty for me, this is also my first planted tank and I really just wanted to learn how to do it. Once I've had the tank running for about 8-12 months I may break it down and try something new. There are so many things I have learned this time around (and will continue to learn over the next several months). But there are also things I would do very differently. I think that's what makes it fun (and frustrating).



DaveFish said:


> I haven't tried the Stratum. I have done Eco with MTS and I have done Aquasoil with Eco. I have used Flourite in the past and don't like the overall texture, it is a lot more flat and it is super dirty. You can see that for me I can't handle mess and the reason isn't OCD it is because I am constantly rescaping little section here and there to get it just right. And slow release pellets are going to provide way more balanced nutrients than even MTS. I know you are using it right now which is fine. It is always nice to find your own method. But I am done with all that jazz. The more you get into it the easier you want it to be. That's why people turn to Neptune Apex controllers and what not. For me Eco with Osmocote+ and Aquavitro grows plants amazingly well and I don't have to work as hard and I do very little water changes. Now Aquasoil works just as good I just don't think plants root very well in it. I know everyone would probably disagree, but my plants do way better in Eco than in Aquasoil. And with shipping it IS more expensive.


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## NickMach007 (Aug 10, 2012)

Yeah, I've seen that too-- definitely an interesting experiment. Though not one I will be trying myself. 



DogFish said:


> Two words...Toxic Ten
> 
> :icon_bigg


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Plain old top soil, or miracle grow organic choice mixed with a bit of plain unscented cat litter and peat.
Why? cause it produces desired result's much more cheaply than specialty substrates I have tried.


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## Cokeman (Nov 3, 2013)

What does the cat litter do?


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

Cokeman said:


> What does the cat litter do?



It's just a cheap, readily available, inert clay-based substrate, and it has a high CEC (cation exchange capacity), this enables the substrate to temporarily 'hold' nutrients and such, and the plants can then 'take' the nutrients from the substrate.

Just make sure you get a basic, natural type, with no scents/colors/etc. Some types hold up okay, others turn to mush after being wet for a bit. Still good for plants, but can make a mess when disturbed.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

lochaber said:


> It's just a cheap, readily available, inert clay-based substrate, and it has a high CEC (cation exchange capacity), this enables the substrate to temporarily 'hold' nutrients and such, and the plants can then 'take' the nutrients from the substrate.
> 
> Just make sure you get a basic, natural type, with no scents/colors/etc. Some types hold up okay, others turn to mush after being wet for a bit. Still good for plants, but can make a mess when disturbed.


I have not used this but do use API First Layer Pure Laterite which, if you read the label is the same basic material.
But at $13 for a 55oz box. But I mentioned it because some plants prefer clay to other soils. I have one such plant in my
tank and it's actually a "bog" plant which I "collected" from the wild and it was growing in clay where I found it.
Of course you would need to Google the plant to see if you wanted to.


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

Dirt capped with sand, preferably black blasting sand. Currently working with rabbit poop and worm castings. Partially decomposed peat moss is good too. As for the retail substrates, I go with Eco-Complete.


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

My favorite substrate so far is Quickrete all purpose sand washed thoroughly.


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## 5BodyBlade (Feb 8, 2011)

Howdy Dave. I like my Turface. It can be a bit light for planting, especially small stemmed plants, but once established they grow well. I've been toying around with the idea of crushing the granules up slightly to make planting easier and keep the high CEC properties.


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