# Soil test pictures



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Hello!

I am currently testing two types of soil in small tanks beafore a bigger dirt setup, i am testing these two soils with following labeled on the bags:

1. _Quality Soil particularly suitable for indoor plants and window boxes. Nutritious and odorless. The earth is long time composted in 3 years, and are hand-pruned several times during this period.[censored]The result is a nutrient-rich soil full of microlife, ideal for your indoor plants and window boxes.[censored]Debio Approved for organic growers. Raw materials: 30% cow manure, 60% peat and 10% sand._

This tank is on the two first pictures and it is only two days old. I do know that manure is not reccomended in the soil, but i had to try - This soil was very clay like in consistent, and it has been no bubbling in the tank. It also looked heavy and was clouding the water mutch less than the other soil i used when i tested them in a kitchen glass. It also went to the bottom faster, maybe beacuse of the 10% sand mixed in.

2. _This soil is only soil, no fertilizer is added._

This tank is tree weeks old and everything looks good. There have been a lot of bubbling, but there is still no sign of algae. There have been no water changes in this tank.




Here are the pictures, first two is of the tank using soil with 30% cow manure. By the way there is only plants in this tank and i am not using anything to circulate the water. I have mounted a air stone but i am not using it, should i use it to Get some water movement in this only plants tank??


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

About the tank with soil number 1. with cow manure:

Is there anybody out there with experience in Walstad setups that can give me some advise about using the air stone or not?

The air stone is the only thing i have to get water movement in the tank, but i am reading that airstones will work against the soil producing CO2?

Is water movement neccesary in a plant only tank?

Any suggestions?

Jnad


----------



## ced281 (Jul 6, 2012)

I do think water movement is important even in a plant only tank for at least two reasons:
- Water circulation allows for circulation of nutrients in the water column. Some plants absorb more nutrients from the water column than from the soil.
- Poor water circulation is often a contributor to algae and BGA. It's not the only contributor and isn't always the key contributor, but it is one nonetheless.


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Tanks for answer.

I will run the airpump to get some water circulation then, hope not the air will exhaust the CO2 from the soil.

Jnad


----------



## ReluctantHippy (Jun 23, 2011)

In the Walstad method the decomposing soil (humus) produces bioavailable carbon similar to the carbon in Flourish Excel in addition to CO2 gas. Many microbes do produce CO2 gas while breaking bonds associated with decomposition but I would consider that as an extra. I wouldn't worry about your airstone as you're likely diffusing more atmospheric CO2 into the tank than letting CO2 gas escape and water movement is important with planted tanks. Keep in mind the soil you picked isn't going to break down all that much anyways - peat is pretty much inert underwater and for the most part will not break down at all.


----------



## In.a.Box (Dec 8, 2011)

Wow the light is pretty high up yet still giving the plant so much light.


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Yes it seem to be a effective little bulb, the led bulb is about 22 inches over the substrate. I dont know if this is low or medium light, would have been interesting to have a par meter.

Jnad


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Hello!

Here is some uppdate of tank number 1. with soil number 1. This is the tank with soil containing 30% cow manure:

The tank have been running for 5 days and today i have done some measures of the water.
Ammonium: 0,0 / no measureble readings
GH: 4,0 / the same as my tapwater.

I am not using a filter, just a bubbler to get some water movement. The water is still cristal clear. 

I am not going to have fish in this little tank, only some shrimps that will arrive in about one week.

It looks like the plants have started to grow, but since there is no feeding to this tank do you think i should add some fertilizers? Or just relay on the soil/cow manure and just let the tank be with light and some water movement?

I appriciate any comments

Jnad


----------



## mc1973 (May 1, 2013)

In.a.Box said:


> Wow the light is pretty high up yet still giving the plant so much light.


Lol that's the first thing I noticed, and without a reflector too!


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Hello!

I was also suprised about these led bulbs. I am using the same type of bulbs in a fixture i made over this tank and i am very satisfied.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=277946&highlight=

I also have been into reef tanks, and this is a very interesting tread about GU10 led bulbs used sucsessfully over a reef tank
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/267432-gu10-led-build-thread-chinese-ebay-lights/

I think these bulbs with the right color could be a good alternative to planted tanks.

Jnad


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm very happy to see you decided to follow through on your plans to work with organic substrates. Of course I am very biased on this topic. 
:biggrin:

I would tell you the benefits of water movement will greater than the loss of CO2. Most of our plants come from water that has movement, there is even thermal current movement in ponds.

One away to use the air stone to lesson the surface agitation, hence lessening the CO2 drive off would be an Air Lift tube. Here's a video that shows the idea on a larger scale in a German(?) pond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkPUQlt0iSw

In your tank a simple PVC(Plastic) straight pipe and a elbow(45degree) pipe will create the same effect. By mounting it below the surface you will gets flow with lower surface agitation.

I use PAR38 LED lights too and it is amazing how high they need to be for correct lighting. 

Best of Luck with this project, I look forward to seeing your results.


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Tanks for the tip about the air lift tube, just now i am using a power head for water movment. But for some reason, i dont now really why, but i like air in my tank, and i have a really silent air pump so i probably will try an air lift tube.

When it comes to dirt substrate i really like this approatch and will continue to run dirt tanks, but i also am reading with interest about DSB in freshwater tanks and would really like to try one tank with DSB substrate also. Not many aquarists running a DSB, but here is a link:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_7/volume_7_1/dsb.html

Jnad



DogFish said:


> I'm very happy to see you decided to follow through on your plans to work with organic substrates. Of course I am very biased on this topic. :big grin:
> 
> I would tell you the benefits of water movement will greater than the loss of CO2. Most of our plants come from water that has movement, there is even thermal current movement in ponds.
> 
> ...


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Jnad said:


> .....When it comes to dirt substrate i really like this approatch and will continue to run dirt tanks, but i also am reading with interest about DSB in freshwater tanks and would really like to try one tank with DSB substrate also. Not many aquarists running a DSB, but here is a link:
> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_7/volume_7_1/dsb.html
> 
> Jnad


From your link ~ "1. Fill the aquarium with approximately 3 inches of good sand - pool filter sand, specialized horse racetrack sand, and other meshed sands are good choices."

I'm confused??? I would think Deep Sand Bed might be deeper? Many of us using Dirt in our tank use 2" of Dirt and 1"+ of sand as a cap. I don't feel that is really deep.


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

At first i also thought 3 inches was to little, but there is folks saying it works like a charm. Here is some more reading
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?215174-How-Freshwater-Deep-Sand-Beds-Work

I would use minimum 3 inches in front and slope it up to minimum 5 inches in the back.

This approach also like dirt looks like a natural way to go for those with that interest. There will be less of a mess when moving plants, but i see they recomend to cut the roots and leave them in the DSB to rot when moving or taking plants out of the tank. The dying roots is good for the DSB

Jnad


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Great thread!
There are a number of parallels shared between NPT (dirt tanking) and DSB. 
Thinking though that having a planted aquarium the nitrate handling component of the DSB is only of minor consideration. Without organic content the DSB doesn't contribute the same support for plants.

With regards to water circulation (imo) a little goes a long way and is always a good thing.


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Could it be possible to do a DSB with dirt/soil?

I do think Big Tom has a very thick layer of substrate in his great tank, he has mixed soil and sand 50/50 and then capped with plain sand. Maybe he actually running a DSB with dirt.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=150555

Jnad


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Absolutely possible. 

All thick substrates have the same processes at play once established.
Adding the soils and organics simply aids in supporting rooted plants. The same concerns about disturbing the base are there DSM or NPT. Routine gravel vacuuming beyond removing loose waste or leaf litter isn't a good idea with either one.


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm not seeing the benefit of going deeper than 2" of Dirt & 1-1.5" of sand cap?

I pulled these out of my 40B a while ago:


In just 3" of substrate (MTS/Sand cap) I had good root growth but not root bound plants. Excessive root growth is due to plants searching out nutrients. I've noticed in m Aquaponic Gardening the roots are never as large as they are on the same plants in my outdoor garden (dirt). I attribute that to less work in need by the plant to get nutrients in the Hydroponic grow bed.


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

So, if 3 inches of sand gives a DSB that work, is 2 inches of dirt and 1 inch of sand cap also function as a DSB??

What do you think?

Jnad


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Jnad said:


> So, if 3 inches of sand gives a DSB that work, is 2 inches of dirt and 1 inch of sand cap also function as a DSB??
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Jnad


 I think Dirt & Sand are better as the dirt is full of nutrients the plants can use. It's more natural. You don't find many plants growing in only sand.


----------



## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Yes i think my nest tank also will have soil substrate, but i just have not decided what to use as cap yet. My only consern with sand as cap over the long run is that i am not sure if fish food and other stuff will reatch through to the soil to ceep it fertilized. I think that maybe is why Diana Walstad use gravel as cap, i really like sand though, nice and natural to look at and easy to plant in. My plants seems to love sand too, my grass have runners all over the substrate.

Jnad


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

In my tanks I do not "face" the front & sides with sand. You can observed the Dirt & Sand layers as you view the tank. You can see the dirt, a extremely thin/fine layer of sand and the the sand cap. From tine to time a bit of dirt may be pulled if I pull a plant or there might be fish waste in a corner. You can actually see the dirt or waste travel down through the cap as it seeks it's level.


----------

