# Fluval Stratum soil tested (#s in post).



## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Hi.

I've access to a high quality soil test kit, so I used it on crushed up Fluval Stratum yesterday.

Here are the results:

Nitrogen: 30-45 lb/acre. Low-Medium in the soil world.

Phosphorus: 50-70 lb/acre. Low-Medium in the soil world.

Potassium: 80-120 lb/acre. Low in the soil world.

If anyone has anything else they want tested, I could do it for them. I'll be doing vermicompost next, since I have that underneath my Fluval Stratum.

Discuss!


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

I would like my garden soil tested since the part I mulched did worse then the solid clay.  Growing season is almost done and my tomatoes are only 12inches tall. :'(


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

jmowbray said:


> I would like my garden soil tested since the part I mulched did worse then the solid clay.  Growing season is almost done and my tomatoes are only 12inches tall. :'(


Do you trellis them? Do you prune the elbows?


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Can you do a comparison with ADA AS using the same kit?


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Sure, just need a handful of AS to test. Not sold locally here, and I have no use for it since all my tanks are planted.

If you want to send me like half an ounce or so, I would be happy to test it.



Jeffww said:


> Can you do a comparison with ADA AS using the same kit?


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

larcat said:


> Do you trellis them? Do you prune the elbows?


Yes and No. Everything was fine until mulched last year with leaves and green grass. But it's not just the veggies the entire garden in bad. Flowers go from 24inchs tall (clay) to 4-5inches. The only speices untouched in bulb flowers. I didn't use any poisonious tree leaves so I'm not sure.


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## ddavila06 (Jun 30, 2011)

so the resultes just mean that the stratum is average as far as nutrients go?...how about iron content?? thanks for doing this.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

I think I know what the problem is. I'll check with my fiancee later, since she is the expert. Trying to grow stuff in plant material that is composting is going to be horrible for plant growth. You need everything to already be composted. When you do a compost bin, the rotting stuff is "hot", literally from bacteria action, and can't be grown in. The stuff at the bottom of the bin is compost, looks like dirt and is good to go. Stick a thermometer into your "mulch" and see what the temperature is... Dig around a little. Does it smell bad? 


*** EDIT Checked with her. Other possibilities -- If they were walnut leaves, there is a chemical in walnut leaves that inhibits plant growth. If your lawn was treated with something you could have an issue there with the grass clippings. Otherwise, she agrees that it is because the clippings etc weren't composted yet. Grass especially, if not fully composted, will create pockets of anerobic activity if not fully composted. Also, if the leaves weren't dried you need to add more brown material to compost to get raw carbon into a compost mix. Green provides the nitrogen in compost. You can trust the above, this is what she does for a living  Hope it helps!



jmowbray said:


> Yes and No. Everything was fine until mulched last year with leaves and green grass. But it's not just the veggies the entire garden in bad. Flowers go from 24inchs tall (clay) to 4-5inches. The only speices untouched in bulb flowers. I didn't use any poisonious tree leaves so I'm not sure.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

No idea on iron, not in the kit I used.

Yes, average as far as nutrients go. That said, it is pelletized which is useful for a whole parcel of reasons.

I'm running vermicompost, which is like rocket fuel for plants, underneath the stratum, and so far it is working out great in both low light and high light conditions...



ddavila06 said:


> so the resultes just mean that the stratum is average as far as nutrients go?...how about iron content?? thanks for doing this.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Is it possible to correlate those pounds per acre numbers to something understandable for aquariums. Acres are an area measurement, but our substrates are measured in volume, not area. What is the soil depth associated with pounds per acre numbers? With that one could convert pounds per acre to mg per liter, for example.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

That is what I am hoping: That someone with a good scientific background can maybe do something with these. At worst, if I can get some AS I can run that, and I'll run some regular potting soil, top soil and my vermicompost so we can at least compare that way.



Hoppy said:


> Is it possible to correlate those pounds per acre numbers to something understandable for aquariums. Acres are an area measurement, but our substrates are measured in volume, not area. What is the soil depth associated with pounds per acre numbers? With that one could convert pounds per acre to mg per liter, for example.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

At the very least having a comparison between a few different soils will help, even if we cant convert these to mg/l


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Chlorophile said:


> At the very least having a comparison between a few different soils will help, even if we cant convert these to mg/l


This!


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

I can't provide you with used AS but I can probably get you some new AS but I think that would be a very slighted test since AS is infused with ammonia which quickly goes away after awhile.


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

If you can tell me how deep the soil is I can figure out the mg/liter.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Next time I am up where the test kits are I'll look in more depth. I wasn't thinking about raw number crunching today when I was testing, but more about comparative testing between soil samples.

From what I remember of the literature that came with the kits, it is somewhat in exact because you are testing a small chunk of something not entirely uniform. I'll give more info next time I am up there (probably next weekend.)



sampster5000 said:


> If you can tell me how deep the soil is I can figure out the mg/liter.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

New would be much better than used. Really only need about half an ounce to do all the tests and have a little back up. Literally one handful.



Jeffww said:


> I can't provide you with used AS but I can probably get you some new AS but I think that would be a very slighted test since AS is infused with ammonia which quickly goes away after awhile.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Are you sure those numbers aren't pounds per acre foot? If so, the conversion factor is 1 ppm. = 2.72 pounds per acre-foot.


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## jhunt (May 7, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> Are you sure those numbers aren't pounds per acre foot? If so, the conversion factor is 1 ppm. = 2.72 pounds per acre-foot.


A chain by a furlong. 66 x 660 feet. God I hate standard measure, so arbitrary. Hurray for metric!


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Could be. I'm not a soil scientist nor a horticulturalist. I'll ask the person who is next time I am up there.



Hoppy said:


> Are you sure those numbers aren't pounds per acre foot? If so, the conversion factor is 1 ppm. = 2.72 pounds per acre-foot.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

I'll see if I can convince the folks at ADG to let me grab a sample. I personally only have pfs, stratum and eco comp on my tanks so I cannot tell you the efficacy of ADA AS. I've only had a sample of it before and I tossed that out awhile ago.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

That would be awesome. It isn't available up here, and I don't know anyone in the Illinois forum that is using it.

I am guessing it has very similar numbers to Fluval Stratum, which is just topsoil treated to form pellets, near as I can tell.



Jeffww said:


> I'll see if I can convince the folks at ADG to let me grab a sample. I personally only have pfs, stratum and eco comp on my tanks so I cannot tell you the efficacy of ADA AS. I've only had a sample of it before and I tossed that out awhile ago.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Interesting. Does anyone actually know how they pelletize dirt? Anyways worse comes to worse I'll personally drive to ADG and buy a new bag of AS for 15 dollars or whatever and test it. The problem I see with new AS is that it contains massive doses of ammonia which are quickly depleted on the order of several weeks...if you were to test fresh AS you'd get off the charts N.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm guessing they add moisture and then dry it in some way that makes it form pellets, but I'm not sure : /



Jeffww said:


> Interesting. Does anyone actually know how they pelletize dirt? Anyways worse comes to worse I'll personally drive to ADG and buy a new bag of AS for 15 dollars or whatever and test it. The problem I see with new AS is that it contains massive doses of ammonia which are quickly depleted on the order of several weeks...if you were to test fresh AS you'd get off the charts N.


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

Jeffww said:


> Does anyone actually know how they pelletize dirt?


Don't know about Fluval Plant Stratum. But Fluval Shrimp Stratum seems to be gravels with a soil coating:


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

it's not, that is just one piece. If you crush a piece with a hammer it's usually solid brown.


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> it's not, that is just one piece. If you crush a piece with a hammer it's usually solid brown.


So those pellets are _supposed to be_ soil all the way through? Can you cite a source confirming that assertion?

As shown in the following close-up, numerous pellets have their soil coating partly worn off exposing what seems to be a gravel core (some of the more obvious ones have been red-circled):


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

If you don't have any luck finding a handful of AS then PM me and I can open a bag (I bought two extra 9L bags when I ordered AS from AFA a while back) and chuck some in a box and ship it out.

Obviously not a first choice since I would have to pay shipping so if someone local offers some up that would be better but it might be worth paying shipping in order to compare AS to other soils.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

zdnet, I believe those to be chunks of organic matter, such as pieces of wood chip or small stone. I have used fluval stratum for over a year now, and by that rate, I should have nothing but white gravel. But it isn't. In fact, I just re-did a tank and used the old stratum to repot a houseplant. The soil was still black.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Here ya go, I grabbed a handful of stratum from my potted plant, put it on a paper towel and smashed it. You can see its not gravel covered in soil:

Before:









And after:


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> zdnet, I believe those to be chunks of organic matter, such as pieces of wood chip or small stone.


No, they are not. The tank has no wood or stone. Here is one of those worn pellets:










After rubbing it with fingers, the soil coating disintegrated into bits. What's left was a tiny gravel. In the following close-up, I placed it beside a penny for size reference (one bit of the soil is at the bottom left):


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Here ya go, I grabbed a handful of stratum from my potted plant, put it on a paper towel and smashed it. You can see its not gravel covered in soil:
> 
> Before:
> 
> ...


The gravels are tiny. Here is a 100% crop of the above "after" shot with red circles on some of the more obvious gravel-looking things:










Here is a color-enhanced version of that same crop:










There are more in the "after" shot. To see them, you may have to turn up your monitor's contrast.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Those chunks are probably pumice (aka powersand), which increase the CEC of the soil. I don't think the soil is covered with them, it's just an ingredient in the dirt mix. This stuff starts as a dirty peat moss-ish mix, they probably add some crushed pumice to the mix, then fire and roll it in an oven. Just because there are small bits of rock in the soil mix, does not mean it's gravel coated with soil


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Plus, if you've ever used ADA soils, they're full of bark and sticks and actual rocks, lol.


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Those chunks are probably pumice (aka powersand), which increase the CEC of the soil. I don't think the soil is covered with them, it's just an ingredient in the dirt mix. This stuff starts as a dirty peat moss-ish mix, they probably add some crushed pumice to the mix, then fire and roll it in an oven. Just because there are small bits of rock in the soil mix, does not mean it's gravel coated with soil


Neither you nor I manufactured Fluval Shrimp Stratum. Therefore, we don't know what those gravel-looking things are. They look more like gravels than pumice.


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Plus, if you've ever used ADA soils, they're full of bark and sticks and actual rocks, lol.


You've missed the point. My original post was a reply to the question:


Jeffww said:


> Does anyone actually know how they pelletize dirt?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Oh, the answer to how they pelletize dirt is, they roll it in a giant heated cylinder. I watched a video of the process of a german company making some aquasoil. Basically it was sifted into very fine particles, combined in a recipe (the dirt, pumice, humic/fulvic acid, some secret ingredients), and then added to a giant tumbling kiln, before they turned the heat on, the mix was periodically sprayed with water, which made the soil form into clumps. Heat was applied for however long, and then the mix was sifted into different grades (sizes) and bagged.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Oh, the answer to how they pelletize dirt is, they roll it in a giant heated cylinder. I watched a video of the process of a german company making some aquasoil. Basically it was sifted into very fine particles, combined in a recipe (the dirt, pumice, humic/fulvic acid, some secret ingredients), and then added to a giant tumbling kiln, before they turned the heat on, the mix was periodically sprayed with water, which made the soil form into clumps. Heat was applied for however long, and then the mix was sifted into different grades (sizes) and bagged.



share the video pls 

I suck at imagining in my head.


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