# CAUTION: High Phosphate Levels in corrupted Eco-Complete



## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

I recently posted in another thread about my experience with the milky/cloudiness issue of eco-complete bags as of late. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15791&page=3

Well today I discovered another issue with contaminated eco-complete that could pose severe problems to people who use it, especially those who are new to planted tanks. I recently set up a 125 Gallon tank using eco-complete in which 4 of 12 total bags were contaminated with the milky white substance. I was getting ready to fertilize this tank for the first time and decided to test Nitrate and Phosphate levels first. Nitrate was normal for what normally comes out of the tap. However, upon testing for phosphate, the test showed levels of phosphate that were off the scale. I immediately tested water out of the tap to rule that out and it showed about 0.5ppm of phosphate. My next suspicion was the eco-complete. I still had two unopened bags of contaminated eco-complete, so I opened one and drained about 16oz of the milky liquid into a dixie cup. I then filled a bucket with 1 gallon of tap water and tested it for phosphate as a control. Phosphate, as predicted showed about 0.5ppm in the control. I then used a syringe to extract 5ml of the milky liquid from the dixie cup and added it to the 1 gallon bucket. I tested the mixture, and sure enough the phosphate level was through the roof. (Past the top 10ppm limit of the test kit) I rinsed the bucket and repeated the experiment, first with the control test which again showed 0.5ppm of phosphate. However, this time I had filled the bucket with 2 gallons in hopes of getting a more dilute sample. This time around I added only 1 ml of the milky liquid to the bucket and tested. Finally I could get a reading within the range of the test kit which read at about 5.0 ppm. So basically a mere 1 ml in 2 gallons of water can raise phosphate levels to fairly high level. Imagine adding an entire bag which probably has at least 32oz or so of this stuff to your tank.

Here's another thread which may provide some answers to this: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17035

This thread mentions that at some point calcium carbonate had gotten into several lots of eco-complete resulting in customers having high GH and KH readings. I found this to be odd because in my case, as I mentioned in the first thread, I ended up with a large drop in pH which is basically the opposite of what the others had experienced. Later in the thread, Del points out that after Caribsea learned of the high GH/KH problem they started adding a clarifier to fix the problem. Based on all this information I'm led to conclude that in addition to the "clarifier" or perhaps as part of the "clarifier", Caribsea added a large amount of Phosphate based pH Down/Buffer type product to counteract the effect of the Calcium Carbonate....

I'm sure they meant well in doing so, but the side effects could have major impact on people who are new to fertilizing. Faltering with other ferts with this level of phosphate could definitely lead to some major algae problems. I'm sure this would also invalidate the pH/KH CO2 chart. Don't get me wrong, I love eco-complete and highly recommend it. I just wanted to let everyone know to be wary and to avoid using the contaminated bags unless you rinse them really well. Caribsea seems to have shown great customer service as evidenced in these threads and I'm sure they'll resolve the problem in the near future.

PS: If anyone else has contaminated bags right now, it would be great if you could test your bags to see if you get similar results.

-Jeremiah

Here's a pic of the test done on my tank water that prompted all of this.


----------



## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Here's a pic of the milky fluid from the eco-complete bag.


----------



## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

This shows the control test of 1 gallon of tap water and the test of the same water with 5 ml of the milky fluid added.


----------



## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

This shows the second set of tests and the final result of 5ppm phosphate derived from adding 1 ml of the milky fluid to 2 gallons of water.


----------



## Hypancistrus (Oct 28, 2004)

Thanks a ton for this info + the pics, this is really important to know.

Do you have a bag of "non" corrupted Eco Complete, without the milky white fluid? It would be interesting to see what the phospate test would reveal on that.


----------



## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, *this is very interesting*. Luckily, I didn't have any clarifier in my bags. Finally, a month later and lots of water changes, it seems my GH has stabalized to decent levels. I'll prolly end up with 9 extra bags of Eco to trade or start another tank. The phosphate test on that clarifier is alarming to be sure. Thanks for your research. I think you're right about the pH down using some sort of phosphate buffer. You would think Caribsea would know better (I imagine they actually do) and alert their suppliers and customers to do a major rinsing. I think they made a serious mistake not approaching this problem more proactively. Thanks again. Bob


----------



## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

^ I agree, it was a big mistake. Even though they've been great about replacing or refunding for people, I find myself really reluctant to ever use the product again.


----------



## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

Yes, was debating between eco and Flourite...

Since hearing all these quality control problems with eco I'm definitely going Flourite.

It's too bad because I had heard good things about eco.


----------



## Hypancistrus (Oct 28, 2004)

It really should be fine if you rinse it.

Go buy a big spaghetti strainer at WalMart or Bed Bath & Beyond and rinse it either in the sink or outside with a garden hose.

Flourite will need rinsed anyway.


----------



## Talonstorm (Nov 6, 2004)

Has anyone actually received their replacement bags yet? I am wondering how long it will take. I got an email from carib-sea yesterday saying they would replace my contaminated eco, and I sent an email back with my address. I hope it won't take too long, I am anxious to set up my new tank!

I really hope this all works out. I have flourite in my other tank and I really don't like the color. I also had to rinse each bag for like 30 minutes (rinse and dump bucket, rinse and dump bucket, ad nauseum) to get rid of the thick pasty goo.

Tina


----------



## GraFFix (Feb 21, 2005)

Nope I havent recieved my replacements yet. its been about a week since i recieved the email from them. I was wondering the same thing. I have a new 20g with all the equipment sitting here waiting to get setup..its killing me lol


----------



## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

Hypancistrus said:


> It really should be fine if you rinse it.
> 
> Go buy a big spaghetti strainer at WalMart or Bed Bath & Beyond and rinse it either in the sink or outside with a garden hose.
> 
> Flourite will need rinsed anyway.


You'll be rinsing it a long time if you get a contaminated bag that didn't have the clarifier added to it like I did. You'd have to leave it soaking and rinse periodically for an extended period. That being said, if I could be assured contaminated product had been removed from the shelves, I'd love to use EC on my next tank. Had they not let so much get out into the marketplace and had they pulled it off the market, I'd feel much more confident. A costly mistake on their part.


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

The clarifier and Ph buffer is phosphate based I believe.

Caribsea's contractor, which mines the stuff for them, really created a disaster for the company and they are purging all of their remaining stock and replacing it with new. They will not be shipping out the new substrate until the Th week of May. I will not be shipping any out until then too when I have all of mine replaced. 

You would not believe how frustrated they are right now. If you do call or send an email to them please give them a few days to respond. They are literally overwhelmed right now.


----------



## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I was told by CaribSea that I would recieve my new substrate by the end of this week. But it sounds like it might be a little longer. It takes a truck about a week from Florida to the west coast anyhow. FWIW, I imagine anyone buying Eco in the not too distant future needn't worry about a contaminated batch. If in doubt, just soak it for a week and check the pH and GH. I still wonder if hurricanes had anything to do with it... I feel bad for them, but I feel worse for my dead fish and plants that got burned and new tank which got off to a pathetic start. bob


----------



## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Hypancistrus said:


> Thanks a ton for this info + the pics, this is really important to know.
> 
> Do you have a bag of "non" corrupted Eco Complete, without the milky white fluid? It would be interesting to see what the phospate test would reveal on that.


Unfortunately I don't have any more of the non-contaminated bags. However, like everyone else with this problem, Caribsea as been kind enough to send me replacements. I will test them when they arrive.

Again, I want to mention that despite the situation, I still will use eco-complete in the future. Its unfortunate that Caribsea let this batch get out, but I'm sure they will be more cautious in the future. No doubt that has been a costly accident for them thus far, and may potentially impact future sales as well. As Del pointed out, I'm sure they are very frustrated about situation. As a business owner, I know I'd be kicking myself...

-Jeremiah


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Try having 750 that have to be replaced....


----------



## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Hey Del, On your previous post you mentioned that Caribsea wouldn't be shipping until the Th week of May. Does that Th stand for third? Thanks


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Yes it does. Just an itty bitty typo there.


----------



## kimrin (Feb 21, 2005)

Del
I just ordered 2 bags from AquariumPlant.com.
Will I be receiving corrupted bags?


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Nope, but you'll have to wait until we get the new batch in. We should get ours just ahead of everyone having their replacements shipped out.


----------



## Cheeseybacon (Feb 13, 2005)

I just e-mailed them as well. Do they require a receipt or proof of purchase in order for them to replace it? I ordered mine through aquariumplants.com but I don't think I have my receipt and such anymore.


----------



## Spice (May 11, 2005)

Wow. Thanks for sharing. In the future it may be best to rinse your substrate (regardless of the instructions on the package). This can happen in any packaged substrate.


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey Del. I've got 7 bags of the stuff that I got from you guys about 2 months ago sitting in my garage, waiting for my new tank to be built. Does this mean that I need to go test it now? So that I can put my request in to CaribSea?

Please advise. Thanks.


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Yup. Have a look and if it's milky call them.


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

The new bags are starting to ship to distributors. All the replacements will be shipping soon too.


----------



## kimrin (Feb 21, 2005)

and the online orders? this week I hope!


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

When we recieve our shipment which should be in the next 2 or 3 days we will start shipping out the backlog we have. I'm sure the other vendors will do the same once they get their own product delivered.


----------



## kimrin (Feb 21, 2005)

thanks Del! I'll stop jumping up and down for 2 or 3 days then at least.


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

OK...just got our load off the truck. We will start shipping Eco-complete tomorrow.


----------



## kimrin (Feb 21, 2005)

woohoo! I just got the email that it shipped.


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

I've got 7 bags of EC in my garage, waiting for a place in a new tank. I ripped three of them open today and poured out what "milky fluid" that I could and tested it. I tested it straight, no dilution.

In each case, I got some measurable level of phosphate, but none more than 1 ppm. Hard to say exactly what due to the milkiness of the fluid. But miles away from the dark blue test pics at the beginning of this thread. These tests did register phosphates, but very little.

Is is safe to assume these bags (the three tested) are OK?


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I added a bit of "corrupted" Eco Complete in one of my aquariums. 

I rinsed the product very, very well before I added it. The PO4 level is over 2ppm according to my Red Sea PO4 test kit, but I imagine whatever is causing the high PO4 levels will eventually vanish.

Mike


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Momotaro said:


> I added a bit of "corrupted" Eco Complete in one of my aquariums.


Thanks Momo, but I'm not talking about adding "a bit", I'm talking about 7 bags. Are you implying that that would be OK? Just marginally high phosphates for a while?


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Seven bags? Then don't bother, Steve.

I set up some tiny shelves in my 37G for growing plants in, so I have little concern about the small amounts I am using. I am pretty sure whatever is bumping up the PO4 levels will eventually deplete.

However, giving consideration to all the work you have been doing building your aquarium, why take a chance on a few bags of potentially "dodgey" substrate? If I were in your shoes, Steve, I'd return the bags and get some I wouldn't have to worry about.

Mike


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks. Got it! roud:


----------



## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I'm pretty certain Carib Sea won't want to pay the return ship cost so you'll end up with your "corrupted" to trade with a LFS or another fishhead, of course one should let them know what your trading... 

BTW Steve, the new Eco I got is much finer grained. The old "corrupted stuff had a ton more variety of size. My new Eco is quite a bit more uniform. Just about twice the size of sea sand, only black. Looks good, but doesn't hold the roots as easily at first. But it looks nice and smooth and I imagine the Corys like it better... bob


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks. As much as I'd like the new "consistent" grained Eco, I still don't _know _ that I've got the bad stuff. Unless that fact that it tested positive for phosphates, even at low concentrations, is evidence.

I figure I've got to haul out some big 5g buckets, put a bag in each bucket (a pain when I've got 7 bags and 4 buckets), rinse it good, soak it in tap water, and test it after a few days. I know exactly what my tap measurements are (duh), so identifying a bag with problems should be easy.


----------



## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

Interesting, that the grain size is more uniform- and smaller. I'd have to look at the bag to get the marketspeak right, but one of their selling points originally was that the grain sizes were different and caused some benefit by creating two zones in the substrate. I personally would prefer a smaller grain size myself. I've taken to removing and sifting out larger pieces from one of my tanks already.


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

*CaribSea coming thru!*

I tested my 7 unused Eco-Complete. Every bag boosted KH a bit, jacked GH up by 10 to 20 degrees, and all showed phosphates beyond my kit's ability to test. I emailed CaribSea, and after an note back and forth or two, they've got full replacements coming my way! No charge.

I shudder to think how little profit they make on a given bag. And then how many bags had to be sold to make enough profit to send me replacements. Quite a few I'm sure. I think this demonstrates real commitment to their customers. 

It was a bad, unfortunate quality control problem. But I cannot fault the company for not cheerfully standing behind their product! roud:


----------



## UprightJoe (May 13, 2005)

I've been dealing with the phosphate issue for awhile now. I just sent them an e-mail asking what they think my chances are of getting it in check with water changes and asking if there are any other issues I should be aware of with the substrate. I haven't noticed a kH or gH change from my tapwater but I haven't tested in awhile. I'll double check it.

I'm hoping I can get it under control without replanting.


----------



## Mothi (Mar 28, 2004)

After reading this thread I am a bit weary about getting Eco-Complete. The only local fish store to me has 2 bags and both when I stirred the corners a bit showed milky substance in the bag... Does this indicate a bad batch? I was hoping to get some substrate today, but don't want to get something that will just end up giving me a headache.


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Mothi said:


> when I stirred the corners a bit showed milky substance in the bag...


Between my reads on the topic here, and my own experience with 7 bad bags, I think that's what you want to avoid.

I do believe AquariumPlant.com has the good stuff in, on sale too. Other sponsors may too. It would be worth a phone call to confirm. They'll know. Count on it.


----------



## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

scolley said:


> It was a bad, unfortunate quality control problem. But I cannot fault the company for not cheerfully standing behind their product!


I agree completely, they've been very helpful and cooperative to everyone I've seen post in this and other related topics. I got my replacement bags as well a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't be happier with their response to the situation.



UprightJoe said:


> I've been dealing with the phosphate issue for awhile now. I just sent them an e-mail asking what they think my chances are of getting it in check with water changes and asking if there are any other issues I should be aware of with the substrate. I haven't noticed a kH or gH change from my tapwater but I haven't tested in awhile. I'll double check it.


UprightJoe, l just wanted to let you know that I've finally got the phosphate level down to a relatively normal level and it seems to have finally stopped rising. This is after 5-7 50% water changes, a 90% water change, and finally another 90% water change. It has held steady for about a week now, so hopefully I'm over the problem...

-Jeremiah


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> I agree completely, they've been very helpful and cooperative to everyone I've seen post in this and other related topics.


I sent an email about a bad bag and haven't heard from them yet..... :icon_conf 

Mike


----------



## john b. (Dec 23, 2004)

Momotaro said:


> I sent an email about a bad bag and haven't heard from them yet..... :icon_conf
> 
> Mike


 I just had two bags replaced from CaribSea. It took them about 3 days to respond to an email I sent to them, not bad considering all the stuff they've had to deal with lately.


----------



## UprightJoe (May 13, 2005)

Thanks Jeremiah. I'm still doing 30-50% water changes every day. My phosphate levels have stabilized a bit but I've been having trouble getting them below 10ppm (still better than 40-60 ppm). I'm hoping it breaks soon.


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

*Yaaa hooo!*

Got my replacement bags from CaribSea today! Beyond my excitement, I just wanted to share the fact that all seven of my contaminated bags had milky liquid in them.

The liquid in all seven of these replacement bags is quite clear.


----------



## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

now go rinse those contaminated bags and you have 14 bags :icon_bigg


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks Sha. Tried that! Still getting some high numbers out of the original 7. They boost GH by about 7 degrees, and the phosphate is still pegging the maximum number of 2.0 on my test kit. My water is 0.8, but this is still adding something significant to it.

I'm afraid to trust it. Looks like good potting soil though. That's what my wife is going to use it for anyway!


----------



## rrguymon (Jul 10, 2005)

UprightJoe,

Did the phospates ever come down or did you have to replace it? I am in the same boat.


----------



## eeng168 (Apr 22, 2005)

*That might be it.*

This might explain the crazy readings that I get from testing. I set up a tank using 6 bags and a couple of the bags had the milky look to it. Didn't think anything of it then. Now, I hear this....this could explain why the phosphate reading for me is off the charts!


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

That's probably the cause of your problem.

Make sure if you are buying a bag from a local store that you check it for the milky liquid. That is a sure sign of a contaminated bag. The store may not even be aware of the issue and if not let them know. Caribsea will replace those bags for them.


----------



## Tonyd (Jan 22, 2004)

Hello All.

If I have had this in my tank for over a year is this anything I need to check for? Does it eventually rinse out with enough water changes? Was it only some more recent batches so the old stuff is okay?

Tony


----------



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Over a year ago and you should be OK. But just in case... are your phosphates off the chart? Killing your plants?

No? Then you're probably OK. :wink:


----------



## Loyal to the Oil (Apr 3, 2007)

REALLY SORRY FOR DRAGGING THIS THREAD UP BUT I HAVE TO ASK BEFORE I OPEN MY ECO BAGS.

Are these still issues with eco ? If i notice the packaging water is cloudy should i do a phosphate test on it before i open all the bags ?

If the water is clear can i assume that the bags arent contaminated or could they still be loaded with carbonates (which seems to be the reason the added to phosphates in the cloudy bags) ?

Again sorry for dragging this up but it seems pretty important.

James


----------



## Loyal to the Oil (Apr 3, 2007)

Sorry everyone....i just got too worried when i read this....have been told in another post that these issues are all cleared up.

Thanks.


----------



## rscannell (Jan 11, 2009)

*Continued Problems with Eco-Complete black*

I just setup a 75 gallon tank complete with fish and plants using eco-complete black that I recently purchased. First, I got a bad problem with brown then blue-green algae. All the plants won't take root and they eventually die. Found out that the phosphate level was way above 10ppm. The source water tests 0 ppm phosphate. Not knowing what the problem was, I have been doing twice weekly 40% water changes for two months but I couldn't get the tank water below 5 ppm phosphate. I took a sample of the water in the substrate and it came back way above 10 ppm. There is also a considerable amount of white pebbles in the substrate that crumble very easily. I though this problem was solved a long time ago so I'm surprised to see it now. Is there any solution to this or do I have to take down the tank? Since I've been changing the water twice weekly for two months, it looks like it can't be solved that way. I’m new to using this substrate and am so frustrated that I will probably go back to gravel

Thanks,

Ralph


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

g


rscannell said:


> I just setup a 75 gallon tank complete with fish and plants using eco-complete black that I recently purchased. First, I got a bad problem with brown then blue-green algae. All the plants won't take root and they eventually die. Found out that the phosphate level was way above 10ppm. The source water tests 0 ppm phosphate. Not knowing what the problem was, I have been doing twice weekly 40% water changes for two months but I couldn't get the tank water below 5 ppm phosphate. I took a sample of the water in the substrate and it came back way above 10 ppm. There is also a considerable amount of white pebbles in the substrate that crumble very easily. I though this problem was solved a long time ago so I'm surprised to see it now. Is there any solution to this or do I have to take down the tank? Since I've been changing the water twice weekly for two months, it looks like it can't be solved that way. I’m new to using this substrate and am so frustrated that I will probably go back to gravel
> 
> Thanks,
> Ralph


You may have got a old "bad" batch from the supplier or the problem has resurfaced. If you have the original receipt, contact caribsea for a full replacement or better yet refund. Otherwise, swallow your losses, salvage the plants that you can, buy yourself a bag of pool filter sand and some root tabs, crush the root tabs and spread on thet tank bottom, plant and cap with pool filter sand. 

Geeze! and people thought ADA Aquasoill was bad. This S*it sounds worse than Aquasoil.


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Call Carib Sea. They will give you your money back plus damages. You don't sound like you want to replace it with more E-C.

888-461-1113 ext 4

http://www.caribsea.com/pages/contact/contact.html


----------



## rscannell (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks for the reply and the number! I'll call them tomorrow. Since all I want to do is sit back and watch the fish, I'm at my wits end.

Best


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Where do you get phosphate test kits? Sorry if this has been asked before, I don't really want to go search the thread


----------



## rscannell (Jan 11, 2009)

I got mine at an aquarium store but they can be had from an on line merchant such as Dr. Foster and Smith. The kits that I used were from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals for the 0 - 10 ppm reading and Nutrafin for the 0 - 5 ppm reading.


----------



## houstonhobby (Dec 12, 2008)

My 120 was set up with EcoComplete, along with sand and some (supposedly) neutral gravel. Something raised my kH and gH, though not sky high. They both went from around 3 degrees over a period of weeks up to 7 degrees. They are at 6 degrees now so they are probably on the way back down. I don't know what did it, and I am not especially upset about it, but I did find it sort of interesting. I do frequent water changes on this tank, and I always use straight RO water.

Once whatever it is stops working, I'll have to start adding a buffer to my RO water. Right now, whatever it is is saving me work.


----------



## crabcake (Dec 19, 2007)

i used to live next to a railroad track that was used back in the day mostly for moving iron ore and smelting stuff around. the ground there was covered with a burned-up, dusty gravel that looked just like Eco Complete. i have wondered if that stuff might be some kind of industrial waste. does anybody know how they manufacture it?


----------



## joshyboi2 (Mar 28, 2009)

*My Phosphate Levels wont drop below 10ppm, probably my eco complete??*

I recently setup a 3 Ft Discus planted tank using eco complete and it has always had a high reading on the phosphate test. 
I have tested my tap water and the readings are:
PH 6.5
KH 0 ppm
Phosphate 0 ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
Amonnia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Because I live in Port Douglas, Qld Australia, Our water doesnt get any chemical treatment (yet, im sure the government will get its way eventually) So I dont have many issues with water quality.

I have read other articles on the forums and can only imagine the eco complete is responsible for the rise in Phosphates. :icon_cry:

I also run my lighting for 12 hours a day, and have algae attempting to take over my tank. I have everything from green algae, brown, black hair, and many more. 

Weekly testing shows everything else is fine, ph is at 6.4 and KH is at 50ppm. All other readings are 0 ppm except for phosphate. I only use API Test Kits.
So I have done huge 75% water changes every fortnight, adding Black water extract to the new tap water. The results are still up in the 10-15ppm for the phosphate levels. I am a little concerned about the constant level in the tank, this has 3 of my first juvi discus and I dont ever want them to suffer from my own ignorance to phosphate. Will this level harm or kill my discus?

Or should I just realize I wasted my money on some cheap substrate that will imbalance my equilibrium in my tank and get rid of it?

I definetley wont be buying Eco again:icon_evil


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Contact Carib Sea and you can get your money back plus expenses or have them ship you some new product. All you need is your receipt. Sometimes, you can even get a replacement w/o a receipt. I did years ago.
http://www.caribsea.com/pages/contact/contact.html

The problem has just about died out in the states, but other countries may still have the bad product in stock.

It is easy to identify the tainted product. The liquid in it is milky looking. Was yours?


----------



## joshyboi2 (Mar 28, 2009)

yes the milky white stuff settled soon after planting my plants and the water went very nice and clear. a thin coat covered my leaves on my plants which then started to culture algae on them, turning brown. I will contact carribsea, thanks for your help. It could only be the answer to my phosphate troubles. I purchased the bag through an online supplier from Sydney Australia. Thanks again.


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

joshyboi2 said:


> yes the milky white stuff settled soon after planting my plants and the water went very nice and clear. a thin coat covered my leaves on my plants which then started to culture algae on them, turning brown. I will contact carribsea, thanks for your help. It could only be the answer to my phosphate troubles. I purchased the bag through an online supplier from Sydney Australia. Thanks again.


When E-C came out, it had a KH problem. It would increase the KH. Usually this would go away after a few water changes.

Something changed in the mining of E-C and the KH increased the aquarium water by quite a bit. This led to the first recall/replacement issue. 

Then someone at Carib Sea decided to add phosphoric acid to lower the KH. It would lower the KH, but it had the milky water and the phosphoric acid would be trapped in the tiny pores of the E-C and water changes wouldn't lower your PO4 level very much.

That was the second QC problem for E-C.

Good luck with your problem. It's a bummer.


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Perhaps someone can help me understand this as I find it somewhat confusing. Everyone who uses the tainted Eco-Complete is having issues with high phosphates and some state algae issues. So, how exactly does the high phosphate contributed to poor plant growth. I don't accept that it is responsible for the algae. I don't use Eco-Complete but my tap water and tank phosphate levels as tested with a calibrated phosphate test kit measure off the charts(higher than 10 ppm). I don't dose phosphates and believe that water changes with tap water and regular topoffs with tap water contribute to the high tank water phosphate levels, almost as high if not higher than those with tainted Eco-Complete are experiencing. Yet, I am not seeing this translate to poor plant growth in my tanks. What gives??? What else is was going on with these tainted bags of Eco-Complete besides their tendency to drive up tank phosphate levels that I am not aware of. Anyone???


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

I didn't have any of the E-C with the phosphoric acid. My product was in the first recall/replacement and I haven't purchased any more and I probably won't ever either.

There is a somewhat recent problem with E-C that includes large pieces of substrate and different colors of substrate instead of the black color.

H_S, I'd help you with your phosphate question if I could. Since I've never actually had any of that product, I really can't go any farther with specific details.


----------



## rscannell (Jan 11, 2009)

*Eco-Complete*

As a follow-up to my problem with Eco-complete, I contacted Caribsea and had a hard time convincing them that their stuff had high phosphate. They eventually fessed up and said it was a freak occurance of contamination from natural phosphate bearing rock that surrounds their facility. I did get a refund but they would not pay for the damage to the plant material. I have been doing 50% water changes, twice a week for 4 months but the issue is still not resolved. I am preparing to take down the tank and use flourite this time which is what I should have done in the first place. This is a major headache! If anyone is aware of a problem with black fluorite, I would appreciate learning of it before I use it.

You can tell if the Eco-complete is contaminated with phosphate bearing rock by the presence of white chunks that break apart easily. For the price of Eco-complete, they have very poor quality control.


----------



## Seiryoku (Apr 1, 2009)

Left C said:


> There is a somewhat recent problem with E-C that includes large pieces of substrate and different colors of substrate instead of the black color.


I had that exact problem with some not long ago. Extremely annoying 

Probably going to use aquasoil from now on.


----------



## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

out of the 13 bags i used in my 125 i had huge chunk and discoloration issues ...and one other issue i havnt heard from anyone else i keep finding real thin pieces of metal looks like brass about the size of a quater and smaller have found 10 or so pieces so far


----------



## BayBoy1205 (Jan 25, 2006)

Does Eco-complete raise pH? I just setup a 3 gallon tank with E-C. The water in the bag was not milky. The well water I use has a pH of 7.0. The tank pH was off the scale. Should I get ride of E-C or will it come back down once the tank cycles?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

does anybody know how Eco Complete is manufactured? what is the parent material?


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

BayBoy1205 said:


> Does Eco-complete raise pH? I just setup a 3 gallon tank with E-C. The water in the bag was not milky. The well water I use has a pH of 7.0. The tank pH was off the scale. Should I get ride of E-C or will it come back down once the tank cycles?


What is the KH of your well water and the KH of your aquarium water?


----------



## BayBoy1205 (Jan 25, 2006)

I will have to measure it tonight. I know that when I have measured it in the past it is low and considered soft water. The water guy came out one to try and sell a water softner and couldn't believe how soft it was.


----------



## BayBoy1205 (Jan 25, 2006)

The KH of the well and aquarium are at 90. The well still has a pH of 7 where as the tank is still off the chart. Any ideas of what has caused such a high pH? I also tested the ammonia and it is a 0.


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

It is odd to have the same KH in both your well water and aquarium but very different pH's. Are you positive of your test results?

When you say that the pH is "off of the chart"; what does this mean exactly? Is the pH very low or is it very high?

A freshwater low range pH test kit can measure a range of pH between 6.0 to 7.6.

If the pH is higher than 7.6, can your LFS measure it with their high range pH test kit unless you have one?

Also, a high phosphate level will increase the pH. Can you test your phosphate level too in both your well and tap water?

Soft water is usually a GH parameter and has no bearing on the pH.


----------



## BayBoy1205 (Jan 25, 2006)

The pH is higher than 7.6. I can measure with the high range kit this evening.
The tank that is very high is one I'm currently cycling with E-C. I don't know why the pH is so high and that is what I am trying to figure out.
Not sure if I have a phosphate test in my test kit.
I'm guessing you would like the well water and tank water. Tap is the same as the well no softner in my house.


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

house/aquarium water or well/aquarium water will work since you don't have a water softener.

When you test your well/house water are you letting it sit out for ~24 hours to let the water to degas any CO2 and be in equilibrium with the CO2 level in the atmosphere. If not, you need to do so. You can also use an air stone hooked up to an air pump to degas the water. This shortens the time that it takes to degas.

Are you positive that your well/house water's KH as the same as the aquarium's? It should be different if the pH is higher in one of them.

Are your fish, critters, plants showing any signs of stress because of the pH? If they are OK, you may have nothing to worry about.


----------



## BayBoy1205 (Jan 25, 2006)

I did not let the water sit out for 24 hours. I will do that. The only fish in the aquarium is a platy to help cycle the tank. The plants that are in there appear to be doing good.
I tested the KH of the well and aquarium at the same time. The number of drops it took to change from blue to yellow where identical.


----------

