# Too high pH (7.8-8.0) &amp; GH (11dH+) for plants?



## Yarkii (Mar 26, 2017)

Hi! 

I'm having a little trouble finding information regarding the effects of high pH on the plants in a low tech planted tank. As it stands, the pH is around 7.8 but sometimes shifts towards 8.0. KH right now is 6dH, GH is 11dH/200ppm. (This is after adding Replenish to bring the GH up from 6dh, because of the fish I want to get.) Is 7.8-8.0 pH too high for plants? Is 11dH too hard for plants?

The plants I've got in there are:

Elodea
Blue stricta
Filigree milfoil
Hairgrass
Anubias
Banana lillies
Something the LFS called bamboo which isn't really bamboo
Some kind of long grass
Monte carlo - just a tiny bit. Might take it out. 

The substrate is aragonite & coral sand (an experiment to bring the GH up from ~3dH --- it did, but it also sent the pH from 6.8-7.0 to 7.8-8.0).

The lights are 28W LED (both white & TGB/blue).

I'm using Prime, Flourish & Replenish.

Thanks!



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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

That pH is not by any means too high to keep plants. Some plants do better in higher pHs than others, but by and large, you're not going to have any problem with that.


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## Yarkii (Mar 26, 2017)

geisterwald said:


> That pH is not by any means too high to keep plants. Some plants do better in higher pHs than others, but by and large, you're not going to have any problem with that.


Thanks Geisterwald. 

I've been trying to balance things from various perspectives, and yesterday an LFS guy told me my plants will all struggle/suffer with pH as high as mine (7.8 - 8.0). I started to consider changing the substrate, which isn't really a task or a cost that I want to do. 

Do you know if there's a list somewhere of the prefered pH/GH/KH for various plants? 



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## Yarkii (Mar 26, 2017)

N.B. I've just edited the title to also ask whether the GH is too high. It's 11dH (around 200ppm), and I might try to send it higher for particular fish (livebearers), as long as the plants won't suffer. 

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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Anubias ,Water sprite,crypt's,vallisneria,sword's, hygro's,all do well in fairly hard water for me, 12dgh and pH of 7.6 to 7.8 from the tap which I use for water changes.
Bucephalandra also seem's to do well also.
If source water used pH is not below 7.4 the livebearer's will be fine up to pH 8.0
Believe CO2 or lack thereof to be of more importance to plant's than pH or hardness for most of the aquatic plant's.
More demanding plant's seem to display their displeasure from lack of CO2 more so than those plant's mentioned above.


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## JustJen (Jun 20, 2011)

My tanks sit at around ph 8.2, kh 19, gh 8. GH is obviously a little lower than you, but I'm higher on kh and ph. Anubias hate me, but I'm confident it has nothing to do with my water. Crypts, vals, swords, some ludwegias, bacopa, hygro augustofolia, tiger lilies, and others I've forgetting all do well for me in my medium light tanks (I do dose Excel and ferts on some tanks, but no CO2). In most cases, if I can't grow a plant, it's because of the lack of CO2, not the ph/gh/kh. There are a few exceptions of course in particularly finicky plants, but the same goes for the fish in my tanks. MOST will be ok.


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## Yarkii (Mar 26, 2017)

Thanks RM.



roadmaster said:


> Anubias ,Water sprite,crypt's,vallisneria,sword's, hygro's,all do well in fairly hard water for me, 12dgh and pH of 7.6 to 7.8 from the tap which I use for water changes.
> Bucephalandra also seem's to do well also.


 I'll look these up (although at the moment I don't plan to put any more plants in; if the others do badly, I'll refer to this to look at replacement plants). 



roadmaster said:


> If source water used pH is not below 7.4 the livebearer's will be fine up to pH 8.0


 The tap water pH is around 7.0. The aragonite sand & coral sand raise it to 7.8, but I haven't pinned down how quickly that happens. I think I'll be doing smaller water changes to avoid massive drops/fluctuations in the water parameters. Is that why you're saying the source water matters for livebearers? 



roadmaster said:


> Believe CO2 or lack thereof to be of more importance to plant's than pH or hardness for most of the aquatic plant's.
> More demanding plant's seem to display their displeasure from lack of CO2 more so than those plant's mentioned above.


 I have been avoiding CO2 addition for now, partly because this is my first tank and there is just so much to take in as it is, partly because my understanding is that with low tech tanks you don't need CO2. If I do in fact need CO2 because of my water parameters and plant choice, I'll need to find the simplest way to do it, as I'm already scared of stuffing things up as it is.







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## Yarkii (Mar 26, 2017)

JustJen said:


> My tanks sit at around ph 8.2, kh 19, gh 8. GH is obviously a little lower than you, but I'm higher on kh and ph. Anubias hate me, but I'm confident it has nothing to do with my water. Crypts, vals, swords, some ludwegias, bacopa, hygro augustofolia, tiger lilies, and others I've forgetting all do well for me in my medium light tanks (I do dose Excel and ferts on some tanks, but no CO2). In most cases, if I can't grow a plant, it's because of the lack of CO2, not the ph/gh/kh. There are a few exceptions of course in particularly finicky plants, but the same goes for the fish in my tanks. MOST will be ok.


Thanks Just Jen.

I think I've been panicking after an LFS guy told me my plants won't cope with the high GH & pH that I'm aiming for to get livebearers. The responses here, and particularly hearing other people's high readings in successfully planted tanks, helps alleviate my panic. 

I don't know whether I'll need to look into CO2, but for now, while I'm just starting out, I hope not, as I'm a little overwhelmed by trying to get it right for the fish first. 



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## JustJen (Jun 20, 2011)

That's the primary reason I don't do CO2 - my tanks are all "fish first". CO2 isn't worth the hassle for me when the plants aren't the "point" of my tanks. I love them, but I'm willing to limit myself to those that I can grow without the addition of CO2 vs. trying to figure it out. lol!


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## Yarkii (Mar 26, 2017)

JustJen said:


> That's the primary reason I don't do CO2 - my tanks are all "fish first". CO2 isn't worth the hassle for me when the plants aren't the "point" of my tanks. I love them, but I'm willing to limit myself to those that I can grow without the addition of CO2 vs. trying to figure it out. lol!


Yes, I'm the same - the fish will absolutely come first, but I love the plants too. I must admit that my plant choices have been entirely based on what I like the look of when I'm in a store with healthy-looking plants. I haven't researched the different types of plants at all. The few times that I've specifically searched for things that I've heard about on forums, etc., I mostly haven't been able to find them. 

I recently discovered that every single LFS & pet store around me is supplied by the same fish supplier. I wonder if the same goes for the plants, as there isn't terribly much variation from store to store. I suspect there are at least two plant suppliers, but I wonder if that's it. 

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## JustJen (Jun 20, 2011)

Nothing wrong with buying what you like! Some of it will do well and some won't. As long as I've had my tanks, I still went out a couple weeks ago and bought a couple plant packages that I know contain stuff I won't be able to grow. But they also had stuff that might work that I've never tried, so I bought them and tossed everything in the tank to see what "sticks". lol! Would I do that with high dollar plants? Absolutely not. But on the less expensive stuff, I'm willing to gamble. I've been able to grow stuff I didn't think I'd be able to many times. I've also totally failed at growing low-tech staples like java fern. Can't keep that stupid plant alive in my tanks to save my life!


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