# Cyanobacteria



## cyfan964 (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm facing this beast for the first time in 15+ years of keeping numerous aquariums. I've been reading up, best I can find is treating with Maracyn or Chemi-Clean. What say you?


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## CannaBrain (Oct 3, 2008)

I've successfully treated it several times with erythromycin. I keep it on hand always now.


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## coolnick (Oct 28, 2006)

Increase water flow and spot treat with excel, worked for me.


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

Honestly? I had to completely switch tanks. I tried hydrogen peroxide at dosage (didn't work), Mardel Erythromycin(I think) at given dosage (didn't work), and (after evacuating the living stuff) bleaching (somehow it still came back). I even tried a full week long blackout, the stupid prokaryotes still did not die. KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!! I would go with the Chemi-clean since it's coral and therefore zooxanthellae and therefore chloroplast and therefore plant safe.


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

cyfan964 said:


> I'm facing this beast for the first time in 15+ years of keeping numerous aquariums. I've been reading up, best I can find is treating with Maracyn or Chemi-Clean. What say you?


I guess youve been doing something wrong for the past 15+ years 

Theres something off that is triggering it, Im going thru this stage atm and in the process of trial and error. Ive dosed erythromycin only to see it come back in a day or two. Treating it like that is useless. Its like a bandaid in a huge gash. You have to get to the root of the problem. How is your flow, your light level, your co2 level, your nutrient level, is the tank clean, how is your plant load? And so on.


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## LynneS22 (Oct 16, 2014)

cyfan964 said:


> I'm facing this beast for the first time in 15+ years of keeping numerous aquariums. I've been reading up, best I can find is treating with Maracyn or Chemi-Clean. What say you?



Raise your nitrate with kno3. 30 ppm will get rid of it, and it won't hurt anything in the tank. But go slow. Low nitrate is the reason for cyano. Nothing else. Just get seachem nitrogen, and raise it slowly. Once you get it there, maintain it. 

Trust me on this. Took me a year to figure it out, and now my ponds and tanks never have it, unless the nitrate drops below 20 ppm.


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## cyfan964 (Dec 9, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys. Sounds like we're all over the board, much as I've been reading. Waterflow and low nitrates seems to be the culprit, it's a newly planted tank... I'm guessing that is the root, not enough nitrates. I'm EI dosing so maybe I'll up the KNO3 for a while. I've also added a power head. I'm going to manually remove as much as I can keep doing water changes and try dosing with Maracyn as well.

Doesn't seem to be effecting plant growth at all?!


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

How often is the filter cleaned?
I used to see this in cichlid tanks (no plant's) and simply increased filter maint to monthly while aggressively removing what I could manually from décor and substrate.


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

LynneS22 said:


> Raise your nitrate with kno3. 30 ppm will get rid of it, and it won't hurt anything in the tank. But go slow. Low nitrate is the reason for cyano. Nothing else. Just get seachem nitrogen, and raise it slowly. Once you get it there, maintain it.
> 
> Trust me on this. Took me a year to figure it out, and now my ponds and tanks never have it, unless the nitrate drops below 20 ppm.


I disagree I have been maintain above 20 parts nitrates for well over 6 months and its as bad as ever. I don't think water flow will do it either. I have learn to accept some this it has not been problem for plants or fish just looks bad.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Clear Water said:


> I disagree I have been maintain above 20 parts nitrates for well over 6 months and its as bad as ever. I don't think water flow will do it either. I have learn to accept some this it has not been problem for plants or fish just looks bad.[/QUO
> 
> 
> + one.
> ...


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## cyfan964 (Dec 9, 2009)

This was a newly set up tank... guessing it must have come in with some of my new plants. This cyano is a beast. I couldn't even wish it upon my worst enemies.


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## LynneS22 (Oct 16, 2014)

roadmaster said:


> Clear Water said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree I have been maintain above 20 parts nitrates for well over 6 months and its as bad as ever. I don't think water flow will do it either. I have learn to accept some this it has not been problem for plants or fish just looks bad.[/QUO
> ...


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

I believe a combination of factors causes cyanobacteria to appear in your tank. Low levels of dissolved oxygen, high levels of dissolved organics, low macro nutrient levels, poor plant growth, and poor water circulation can cause it.

I've dealt with it by spot dosing with hydrogen peroxide and kept it away in my low tech tanks by increasing the water flow and oxygenation. In my CO2 injected tank, it went away after the plants started growing like weeds and when I kept up with the EI fert dosing.


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## rebelbuck1993 (Sep 3, 2014)

Best i have found for this is hydrila or duck weed. Suck trying to get it out after but it works. I had a issue for a week and i threw some duck weed in there to help with my lighting and found that out.


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

LynneS22 said:


> roadmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Then you need to raise to 30, or 40ppm. My 100 is a steady 40 ppm, and it's never had cyano. If you want to keep fighting it, by all means, ignore what I said.
> ...


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

What green stuff is in the tank? Unless there is some sort of plant/green algae growth I don't think it would be possible to get rid of CB unless you use the antibiotic. I did get rid of it using hydrogen peroxide long ago but more recently H2O2 didn't work. Either one only kills existing stuff and spores will re infest the tank.

If there are plants in the tank and plenty of nitrate what about phosphate? Could it be the plants are phosphate limited and the CB has enough for its needs?

Are you sure your water test is accurate? Hobby tests aren't the best, have you checked the nitrate of your tap water with your test and compared with the water quality report from your water source? In the sticky threads there is a method to calibrate your water test.

I've had nitrate levels ridiculously high and the only vertebrate that was bothered by it was me. Fish were just fine.


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Whats the difference btw nitrate lvls of 20 vs 40? What is it that might inhibit bga? To me it seems that as long as theres an excess of nutrients, its all good because the plants are not effected by 1 salt being limited (which triggers algae).


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Where is that nitrate coming from? If it is present because it has built up in the tank from fish waste then nitrate is an indicator of not perfectly clean water, it is likely other organic compounds that are encouraging the cyano rather than nitrate isn't limiting the cyano. I wonder if you did water changes until nitrate read zero on a calibrated tank and then you dosed potassium nitrate then plants would thrive but cyano would be limited in growth.


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## LynneS22 (Oct 16, 2014)

samee said:


> Whats the difference btw nitrate lvls of 20 vs 40? What is it that might inhibit bga? To me it seems that as long as theres an excess of nutrients, its all good because the plants are not effected by 1 salt being limited (which triggers algae).


It's not just the nitrate, although that is a major factor. There are plenty of articles on the net about nitrate and how the lack of it enables Cyano to bloom. As I previously said before it took me a year to find out why my ponds and 40 breeder got it, but not the other tanks, and the ONLY difference was the nitrate levels. The 100 is, and always has been at 40 ppm, and despite it being over stocked, over fed, etc., it has never had it. 

I do not use ferts in the tanks for the most part, but do in the ponds, which have water lilies in them, and fish, always, ALWAYS had cyano. The one thing they didn't have, depsite the fish, detritus, and lily food was nitrate. They still don't. I dose them with kno3, and haven't had cyano since. 

Let me say this; many factors can contribute to it. It doesn't need food once it's established, because it creates it's own. Light, and to some extent, sludge/detritus can enable it to bloom. But the whole myth that it's due to poor circulation is just that. In my small pond, 150 gal- which has a waterfall, and circulates with a 900 gph pump, still had the cyano. Even on the rocks where the water rolled over it, and even on TOP of the filter box, where the water flows though. So don't waste tim on that. Read somewhere that Cyano does not like oxygen, so I tried that. Put stones, fountain heads, etc, created a turbulent surface, increased the undercurrent, nothing. Still had Cyano. Added kno3, Cyano gone.


You have to remember too, everyone has a different water composite. 30/40 ppm might work for me, but may not work for you. You just have to find that sweet spot where the Cyano and nitrate cannot coexist. It is there. 

This is like making chicken soup. Lots of things go into it, but without the chicken, it's not chicken soup. Increasing nitrate is inhibiting the existence cyano. That's a fact. Proven by experience with it.


As far as how high on the nitrate, they can take up to 60-80ppm. But I have personally never gone that high. And I don't think anyone needs to. If you have Cyano at levels over at/over 40 ppm, then something is enabling it. See my list above.

People are so scared of nitrate. Nitrate is 1 nitrogen atom, and 3 oxygen atoms. Think about that for a few. However, I have no intention of debating pros/cons of nitrate, other than this topic.(as in-it's bad for your fish, etc.)


When something works, I will let people know. Take the advice, or not. It's up to you. 

Otherwise, you can get a product called Ultralife Blue/Green remover. It works, but unless you fix the problem, it will come back. I did the research to find out why it existed in my situations, so you might have to be your own detective.


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

My thoughts are that it more of a phosphate problem. The only place I have this problem is on white sand. I have more than one tank on a central filter and one tank has white sand and the other black with no problem. The water mixes between the tanks and the tank with the white sand has always been a problem. Water condition in all the tanks is the same. Only light is different and I would guess the problem tank is less light but haven't measured it. I'm in the process of getting a phosphate test to try and confirm my suspensions.

Any one measure your phosphates that have this problem?

But I have no idea why it would grow in one tank and not the other if it was high phosphates


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Low O2 levels such as might be found inside dirty/sealed canister filter's or organic's found on substrates and trapped in/on filter media I believe feed the stuff.
Nutrient levels , I ain't so sure are much of a factor, for many many people dosing EI have plenty of nutrient's available yet they do not have the Cyno.
Many are those who run lean nutrient tanks and they don't get the stuff either.
Keeping filter's cleaned regularly (once a month) prevent's trapped organic material from contributing/feeding the stuff as well as being pumped back into the tank in dissolved form, and also prevent's low O2 inside sealed ,possibly dirty filter.
Next on my plan of attack would be large weekly, or twice weekly water changes to remove any possible excess spores and or dissolved organics.
Vaccuming the area (s) affected even if it means temporarily pulling up some plant's to do so would in my view,also be a good idea along with removing, scrubbing any hardscape material like rock/wood.
If plant's are attached to the hard scape,then spot treating just the cyno with peroxide 
would be my final task.
All of this will take some time to note result's so some patience is needed.
Would not expect overnight cure.


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## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

In my tanks it seems to be caused by two things, because that's the only spots it grows:
1. in higher lighted areas (on floating plants, HOB outflows, etc. closest to the light)
2. in higher flow areas (right near filter outflows)

This is to say, the older theory of BGA needing dead spots and/or low light can't be very accurate, and the other replies concerning nutrients such as nitrates or potassium seem more reasonable to me...


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## LynneS22 (Oct 16, 2014)

Clear Water said:


> My thoughts are that it more of a phosphate problem. The only place I have this problem is on white sand. I have more than one tank on a central filter and one tank has white sand and the other black with no problem. The water mixes between the tanks and the tank with the white sand has always been a problem. Water condition in all the tanks is the same. Only light is different and I would guess the problem tank is less light but haven't measured it. I'm in the process of getting a phosphate test to try and confirm my suspensions.
> 
> Any one measure your phosphates that have this problem?
> 
> But I have no idea why it would grow in one tank and not the other if it was high phosphates



Phosphates do play a role, but it's more like a secondary roll. If you think it might be phosphate, then get the deep blue phosphate remover pads, and use them in the filter. On occassion I use them in the 100 when I get algae on the rocks, and plants. They really do work, and it's a noticeable difference. For me, it raises the ph slightly, and lowers the nitrate, so I don't use it that often. Oh, and I have playsand in my 100.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

roadmaster said:


> How often is the filter cleaned?
> I used to see this in cichlid tanks (no plant's) and simply increased filter maint to monthly while aggressively removing what I could manually from décor and substrate.


I'd like to jump in to this conversation, especially since I saw this post I quoted. I have a 40 breeder containing Lake Tanganyikan shell dwellers: Telmatochromis temporalis shell. I have a constant battle with BGA. No plants in this tank, just sand and shells. Right now I only have fry, I gave the adults away. Lighting is LED and it is overkill for this tank. Custom made and lights are as dim as I can set them. Cool white and warm white. 

I just used up the last of my Ultralife Blue Green Algae Destroyer (which I believe is no longer manufactured-this is what they are now selling- http://www.ultralife.com/index.php/product/blue-green-stain-remover/ ) I don't really want to rely on chemicals so now I am going by the clean filter and vacuum the sand more frequently route. I used to wait to clean the filters when the flow almost stopped. Now I am trying for monthly. Tank is at work and can't always clean when I want. I'm upping the water changes too.

I have very good flow in the tank and the BGA grows fine right on the intake of the canister filter.


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## ljapa (Jul 23, 2013)

I don't have any answers for getting rid of it, but do have some observations based on my own experience. For me it first appeared at very low nitrate levels with lots of light. Disappeared for over a year once I let the nitrate levels grow, but has recently returned. But light is definitely a major factor. I know that because of my rather unique setup. 

I have a 55 gallon with a turtle, which means tons of waste. That 55 has an overflow into another 55 gallon that is a heavily planted refugium with with fast growing stem plants and duckweed. 

So, my water parameters in the two tanks are identical, but the lighting is different. Before I added duckweed into the refugium, I had no BGA for over a year. I added the duckweed to help reduce the nitrate load from the turtle waste and grow food for my turtle. 

Before the duckweed, my nitrate levels hovered around 20-30 ppm. Soon after, they dropped to 5. The turtle requires heat and uv light, so there's a powerful Mercury vapor lamp over the basking area, which shines into the aquarium. 

The refugium has a hood with just a single T5 plant light. 

Soon after my nitrate drop, I had my first BGA on the sand in the turtle tank where the light was brightest and in the overflow. The return pump from the refugium is 650 gph, so that overflow gets a very high water flow. I'm not convinced that water flow matters to BGA if conditions are good. 

The interesting thing was, even with a BGA issue in the turtle tank I couldn't control, the refugium had no BGA. The water parameters were identical. The only difference was the light. 

After trying manual removal and hydrogen peroxide without success, without success, I just pared back on the water changes and allowed the nitrates to rise. That knocked it out for months and months. 

Unfortunately, life has been busy and I've gotten very lax on my water changes. Nitrates are now close to 40 ppm and the BGA has returned, but again only in the turtle tank. This time only on the sand that gets the most light and not on the overflow. Maybe water flow matters if conditions aren't ideal?

There's still nothing in the refugium. My plan is to lower the nitrates and see if that helps.


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

I don't know about cleaning the filter will have much of a effect. I was on a cycle of changing my filter every month and still have it. I have done huge w/c and have vacuum the bottom to no end. What makes the most difference is light. When my lights kick on there very little at the start of the cycle and by the time lights go out it's thick. I have tried 3 days without light and it came right back. 

My next thing is to try an antibiotic but for me that is a hell of job with over 200 gallons of water to treat. I may also spot treat it with excel or another product.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Vaccum deeper,reduce lighting,keep filters cleaned,regular water changes.
Folks try this for a few days ,maybe a week or two ,and they grow tired of the waiting to see result's.
Then they resort to the chemical's with mixed result's.


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

Just wanted to do a follow up on this for anyone who's interested. I used Ultralife Blue Green Algae Destroyer that Jerry recommended. I was more than little concerned with over 100 fish and plants in the tank so I went very slow over a couple hours adding it a little at time and watching the fish to see if there was any stress. I saw nothing out of order and fish acted like nothing happen. A far as the blue green slime start to disappear with in the first 24 hours and by the 2nd day there was very little left. I have enough to do a 2nd treatment but looks like I may not need it. So far this product does what it claims and it suppose to be natural. For you that are fighting this problem like I have for over a year it seem like a miracle.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Good news for you Clear Water. Mine has returned again.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Just a heads up you can treat BGA very easily with erythromycin...Ive done it multiple times and its fish safe. Only way ive permanently gotten rid of this stuff


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

jerrytheplater said:


> Good news for you Clear Water. Mine has returned again.


Thanks Jerry you made my xmas!! 

I also wanted to add that I monitor water conditions as the treatment went on and no change to the ph or any other test. So this is a good product. I was little more concern about using erythromycin because of my bio/load and the effects it could have.


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## aeroghost (Mar 17, 2014)

lamiskool said:


> Just a heads up you can treat BGA very easily with erythromycin...Ive done it multiple times and its fish safe. Only way ive permanently gotten rid of this stuff


I need to try this. Where do I find erythromycin?


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

Petsmart sells it. However, dose appropriately, for if you underdose, or don't dose for long enough,you'll make an erythromycin resistant strain of cyanobacteria...


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## strat_guy (Dec 29, 2014)

Hi! First post here! I've been dealing with cyanobacteria over the last month for the first time in 20+ years of fish keeping and I'd like to share my experience. This is the first time I've started keeping a planted tank, and it occurred, I think, due to my lack of experience with plant needs. I think what some of the people are saying about it occurring for any of a number of reasons, or most likely, a combination is probably correct.

My situation occurred about 3 weeks after planting. I have a 100 gal 6' long that has been established for over 2 years with a sump/trickle filter, diy moving bed filter, and diy internal canister filter with powerhead. Fish had begun dying for (mostly) unknown reasons. I had started ignoring them mostly but I think there was a water issue too. After deciding to switch my setup, I added a pretty sufficient amount of plants and started adding soil under the substrate. I upped the light wattage from ~80 watts total to ~190. I also removed the trickle filter and replaced it with a diy internal canister and removed the other internal canister and attached powerhead. Subsequently, the water current was lowered from a spray bar and power head to a single return from the new internal canister (a 500 gal/hr pond pump previously used for the sump). While the return may actually be greater due to the reduced head, it is more directed than the spray bar and not sufficient to move the water along the whole 6' footprint. Fish load was extremely low, 3 fish, a red eyed tetra, a silver hatchetfish, and a Chinese algae eater. The former two make almost no waste, but there is a sufficient amount of algae in the aquarium to keep the CAE plump and he creates a great deal of waste. Trying to go the whole "low tech" route, I read Diana Walsted's book, and she suggests allowing a mulm buildup to occur to keep the soil charged with nutrients. I also was really lazy about the light, didn't have a timer, so the lights were on anywhere from 14-18 hrs a day. I was also dosing with Leaf Zone at 1/2 the recommended dosage twice weekly.

In all, I had higher and long light levels, no water movement, increased nutrients, a low nitrate (0), and a buildup of organic matter. Incidentally, the BGA started showing up en masse, along with a huge outbreak of _hydra_. Two weeks later, I have no visible hydra, and no further BGA. First, I broke up all the visible BGA by hand. Then, I vacuumed the surface of the substrate as well as any rocks and driftwood to remove most of the mulm and BGA buildup. This amounted to about a 10% water change. I reinstalled my powerhead with a sponge filter and used the air input to allow the water to be oxygenated. I then did a three day blackout, followed by two days of 12-hour light, and then two days of 6 hrs on, 2 hrs off, 6 hrs on light. I then stirred up the substrate again, revaccumed, and increased my plant load by adding a 15" Marble Queen sword with a rather dense root system and a moderately dense carpet of chain sword. Since then, about 2 weeks, I have been religious about an 11 hr daily photo length (I'll get a timer soon). I quit dosing the water column but have continued to add soil to the substrate little by little. No BGA since the blackout.

It also occurred in another aquarium at the same time. This one was a new set up. 30 gal low tech. 1.5" MGOPS with 1" gravel/sand cap. 60 watts light with same photo period as the 100 gal. This tank has one adult angelfish and a single green cory. The gravel is dark in this aquarium as opposed to the play sand substrate in the 100. BGA showed up first on my group of hornwart and spread to the substrate, rocks and driftwood, including roots of Java fern I have attached to the wood. The plant load in this tank was much lighter, though the hornwart was such a nutrient hog (grew 6" in a week) I didn't think I needed it. I followed the same procedure as the 100 gal, except I threw out all the hornwart, replaced it with water sprite, and didn't clean the BGA off the driftwood or rocks. The high growth rate of the hornwart caused shading off of the lower parts of the plant and there was a severe build up of needles that I hadn't noticed until I removed it. I removed all the needles. I redirected the canister filter output which had previously sprayed across the back wall to now spray across the length of the aquarium. After the blackout period was over, the BGA had turned black. After the lights were turned back on, some of it greened up, but has not spread in two weeks. I'm simply watching it. I don't mind algae in my aquariums, I think it looks nice, but I want to make sure it doesn't spread as it was. As far as I can see, all spreading has stopped and it is isolated to a few spots along the edges of some rock and two spots on the driftwood.

In both cases, only minimal water was changed and no antibacterials were used. The main issues appeared to be eliminating organic buildup (mulm), decreasing photo period, and increasing water flow. No increases in nitrates occurred, no new fish have been added. Nitrates still read 0. Soon enough here, I'll be adding fish to both aquariums and I'm sure that will seal the deal.

I hope my experience helps a bit!


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

IMO if you do not want to use chemical warfare just black out your tank and clean things up.

I blacked out my tank, all my BGA died, and BGA has never come back. Keep your tank clean and your flow good. BGA only ever shows up for me when my tank is dirty and has dead matter in there.

Actually that applies to a lot of types of algae lol... Keeping your tank clean keeps algae at bay for sure


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## Vancat2 (Jun 23, 2010)

erythromycin.


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