# xenxes's TruVu 90g - Compost "Terra Preta" Dutch Jungle (Shrimp Melting Pot)



## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

1/16/15 low tech start:









2/11/15:









3/6/15:









--- begin CO2 ---

3/18/15:









4/8/15:









4/24/15 (upgrade to 50W LED floods):









4/30/15









6/15/15









8/27/15









9/6/15 (more mowing)









9/27/15 (3 weeks to get back to the top, fully established)









1/28/16 (bought new LED lights, went through 2 sets of cheap LED floods, not cost-efficient in the long run!; scraggly patch on left is me trying to destroy a cynaobacteria bloom)









*Equipment*: 
- 90g custom TruVu (15" tall x 18" deep x 72" long)
- Fluval 405 canister
- Fluval 305 canister
- 3x TSSS 30W LED Flood Lights
- 4x InterDesign Shower Caddies for Riparium Plants
- [strike]Odyssea T5HO[/strike]










*Substrate*:
- DIY synthetic "Terra Preta"

*Flora*:
_Submerged_
- Alternanthera Reineckii
- Alternanthera Sessilis
- Ammannia Senegalensis
- Ludwigia Pantanal / Cuba
- [strike]Ludwigia Curly Tornado[/strike]
- Ludwigia Red Sp.
- Ludwigia Arcuata x Repens
- Ludwigia Pink Ovalis
- Ludwigia Brevipes
- Ludwigia Atlantis
- Rotala H'ra, Colorata, Singapore
[strike]- Rotala Macranda[/strike]
- Rotala Caterpillar
- Rotala Araguaia 
[strike]- Rotala Indica True [/strike]
- Rotala Enie
[strike]- Rotala Mexicana Goais/strike] 
- Eichhornia Diversifolia 
- Persicaria Kawagoeanum
- Limnophila Aromatica
- Limnophila Mini Vietnam
[strike]- Lindernia sp India[/strike]
- Lobelias Cardinalis Mini
- Pogostemon Erectus
- Pogostemon Stellata "Donssan" 
- [strike]Tonina Fluviatilis[/strike] 
- Bacopa Salzmannii
- Bacopa Monnieri
- Heteranthera Zosterifolia (Star Grass)
- Najas Guadalupensis (Guppy Grass)
- Lysimachia Nummularia 'Aurea' (Golden Creeping Jenny)
[strike]- Staurogyne Low Grow[/strike]
- Staurogyne Repens 49
- Blyxa Japonica
- Hemianthus Callitrichoides (Baby Dwarf Tears)
- Hemianthus Glomeratus (Pearlweed)
- Dwarf Hair Grass
- Micranthemum "Monte Carlo"
- Micranthemum Umbrosum
[strike]- Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis[/strike]
[strike]- Lilaeopsis Chinensis[/strike]
[strike]- Marsilea Minuta[/strike]
[strike]- Anubias Nana[/strike]
- Taiwan Moss
- Christmas Moss
- Peacock Moss
- Fissdens Fontanus

_Emerged (riparium)_
- Hydrocotyle sp. ''Japan'
- Alternanthera Ficoidea
- Spathiphyllum (Peace Lily)
- Dracaena Sanderiana (Lucky Bamboo)
- Equisetum (Horsetail)
- Chamaedorea Cataractarum (Cat Palm)
- Oplismenus Hirtellus 'Variegatus' (Variegated Basket Grass)
- Asclepias Curassavica (Tropical Milkweed)
- Hemigraphis Repanda (Dragon's Breath)
- Ludwigia Pilosa [temporary]
- Ruellia Brittoniana Katie [?]
- Penthorum Sedoide [?]


















*Fauna*
- 8x Endler x Guppies (temporary)
- 20x Corydoras Pygmaeus
- 10x Otocinclus
- 10x Boraras Brigittae
- 10x Boraras Urophthalmoides
- 10x Boraras Micros
- 10x Boraras Maculatus
- 2x Thai Microcrabs
- 40x PFRs/Bloody Marys/Rilis
- 12x Orange "Sakura Fire"
- 12x "Sea Sky" Blue (Dream Blue / Carbon)
- 12x Yellow "Golden Back"
- 10x OEBTs
- 10x CRS
- 11x Blue Bees (Paracaridina)
- 12x Hybrid Snow White x. Aura Blues
[strike]- 6x Zebra Nerites[/strike]
[strike]- 6x Olive Nerites[/strike]
- Millions of ramshorn snails
- Billions of pond snails
- Thousands of MTS
- ?


































































_--- Original Post ---_

I should probably wait until I can set this up to post, but... too excited! 

After breaking down and giving away most of my old tanks, circumnavigating the globe, moving across country, buying a new house, etc. -- I finally got a new (and not a nano) tank. Will be back in the hobby in t minus 5 weeks!

Drove 180 miles round trip to E. Bay this morning to pick up the tank + 2x Fluval (305 & 405) filters + 4x T5HO fixture + stand for $300 (great deal).

Tank is 6 feet long! Had to fold down front passenger seat and push it in diagonally to fit the length of my Jeep


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I plan to do a DIY synthetic Terra Preta substrate (copied discussion to HERE.)

Actual ingredients used in post #7 HERE.

*What is Terra Preta?*



> Terra preta (Portuguese pronunciation: [ˈtɛʁɐ ˈpɾetɐ], locally [ˈtɛhɐ ˈpɾetɐ], literally "black earth" or "black land" in Portuguese) is a type of very dark, fertile anthropogenic soil found in the Amazon Basin. Terra preta owes its name to its very high charcoal content, and was made by adding a mixture of charcoal, bone, and manure to the otherwise relatively infertile Amazonian soil. It is very stable and remains in the soil for thousands of years.[1][2] It is also known as "Amazonian dark earth" or "Indian black earth".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

TL;DR version:

Basicaly, Terra Preta is soil with a high charcoal / carbon content. The charcoal acts as a nutrient buffer, saturating the charcoal with nutrients first allows it to slowly leech the same to plants over time. This carbon is self renewing in a sense, because microorganisms dying in the porous surfaces of the charcoal adds additional carbon content. The high carbon content helps stabilize soil, and therefore water parameters in the long run. Because of its buffering capacity, the carbon creates a more forgiving environment to over/under fertilization. Nutrients will still have to be replenished over time (but a long time), so root tabs / osmocote are still helpful.

I have had great success with using charcoal as a buffer in planting orchids and several carnivorous species that are highly sensitive to nitrogen burns. They've thrived and flourished despite sporadic over/under fertilization. I think the same will translate over to a planted tank. 

(1) My synthetic concoction will involve primarily:
- Natural Wood Charcoal (bought 100% wood charcoal from Walmart)
- Peat Moss and/or Coconut Peat as pH buffer (bought from big box garden store)
- Manure for Macro Nutrients and Saturating Charcoal (used dog poop instead of purchasing cow manure since I have lots of those, and as a tribute to DogFish)

(2) Optional but probably desirable additional supplements:
- Bone Meal for micro nutrients (used left over chicken bones from dinner, rather than buying fert)
- Compost for more nutrients and binder (used banana peels, egg shells, coffee grinds, tea leaves, crab/lobster shells, yard trimmings)
- Diatomaceous Earth and Montmorillonite / Bentonite Clay for more nutrients and additional buffering (bought online)

(3) Not decided on these yet, probably will not use:
- Additional long fiber spaghnum moss closer to substrate surface to decompose and add CO2
- Activated carbon on substrate surface to reduce initial spiking

Note that this if for a LOW pH tank (5-6). 

For high PH tanks, I would remove the peat, use chicken manure and higher volume of calcium carbonate, crushed limestone, crushed coral.

_*Warning/Disclaimer*_: I'm experimenting with %s and chemistry of this concoction, try it at home at your (shrimp's) own risk. Do not add straight charcoal (especially activated carbon) into your substrate, the immediate effect is they will simply absorb nutrients and the plants may suffer in the short term if your tank is underfertilized. You need to saturate the charcoal first, such as in a manure and/or urine marinade. Do not use waste from animals on any kind of medication, especially anti-flea poisons, pyrethins can be toxic to fauna at several parts per billion.

**Update*: after observing a few different mixes in various tanks, if I could do this all over again I would try something simpler and more effective--

~95% vermicompost, ~5% bentonite/montmorillonite clay, oscomote+ in large portions, mix, then top off with a 0.5-1" layer of activated carbon. No filler. You can also seed mychorrhizal fungi and beneficial nematodes, but a handful of your backyard dirt should probably contain both if they're not already in your vermicompost.

I recommend reading this http://bialix.com/amania/Chapters/Tech/sub-aquasoils_en.html which roughly breaks down the composition of every commercial substrate including ADA's.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Had a little time this afternoon, washed the tank out, removed the background.









Scrub-a-dub-dub, good condition overall, some visible scratches I'll buff out later









custom Truvu, originally for frags? 72"l x 18"d x 15"h, plants will get a lot of light









coming from exclusively nano tanks, the 6' length still astounds me









no idea why the old stand had heavy granite countertops (old repurposed kitchen cabinet?), going to stain the wood darker









beginning to propagate plants, for my reference:
(left container)
- DHG top left
- Persicaria kawagoeanum middle container 1
- Ludwigia Red Pantanal middle container 2
- Ludwigia sp red middle container 3
- Limnophila mini vietnam middle container 4
- HC bottom left

(right container)
- anubias nana (top)
- lobelia small form (top)
- more ludwigia red pantanal (top left) and ludiwiga sp red (top right)
- limnophila mini vietnam (middle)
- staurogyne low grow (middle-lower)
- staurogyne repens 49 (mid-lower)
- bacopa salzmannii (bottom left)
- more ludwigia red pantanal (bottom container 1)
- more staurogyne low grow (bottom container 2)
- more Persicaria kawagoeanum (bottom container 3)


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Those will be perfect dimensions for a planted tank. I have never seen a 6' 90 gal. Looking forward to see what you do with this. You will need more plants than are what in those 2 containers to fill up that big boy.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Yup....I will be paying close attention to this journal, xenxes. Great idea, and want to see if you had a similar experience that Frank did.


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## PhysicsDude55 (Oct 24, 2011)

Very cool tank!

I have a custom acrylic craigslist find that has very similar dimensions!

Mine is 84" long 17.5" deep 16.5" tall. I really like the dimensions. I think long tanks look more impressive per gallon than tall tanks. Just my opinion.

IMO, in most 2 foot or 29" tall tanks, the top 8" is usually just open water, so I think a slightly shorter tank looks great, and is also much easier to clean and setup!

Looking forward to see how this build turns out! roud:


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks, this one might take a while to get started, unlike my old nanos that pop up overnight...

@PhysicsDude55 - woa, 84", got pics? I don't see your journals 

---

Anyway, since I have to wait, I decided to start marinading my "biochar" for the substrate:









Walmart 100% natural, if you're going to do the same thing make sure you do NOT get the ones coated in gasoline. Crushed with car tires, hammer would have taken forever









Tip: add some water, CLOUDS of black dust









Compost = egg shells + banana peels + coffee grinds + paper towels + yard clippings









Rather than buying manure, just added dog poo. Be careful with this at home, I mean obviously wash your hands after touching poo, but more importantly pyrethins from dog flea and heartworm medication take at least a month+ to break down in soil (and much longer on the water surface), this is lethal to shrimp at just a few parts per billion.









A lot of miscellaneous went in here too, like this crab dinner. Calcium!









cover with more leaf litter









Let it bake (worms or a ground pile would speed this up but I'm a casual/lazy composter)


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Think I'll end up paying for my impatience, saw good deals on shrimps and bought some waaay before I can have this tank set up, much less cycled and established









15-20 FPRs









21 TB/CRS mischlings









Setup an interim holding tub, some charoal, coco peat and spaghnum moss, plant filtration (lucky bamboo + peace lilies; wabikusa with excess plants), fluval 305 filter, titanium heater sitting outside









Settled down and grazing on decaying moss


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

depending how long you're gonna keep the shrimp in that plastic container consider reinforcing the sides.. look at that stress on the sides


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Think it should be fine for a while, added mischlings. I might tie a bungee or ratchet cable around it for stability.

Propagating plants and shrimp, will hopefully have this up in a month.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

How long do you bake the trash can?


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Looking great, Subscribed


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

knm<>< said:


> How long do you bake the trash can?


If you want to speed it up, keep it moist, keep it from freezing, add earthworms, turn it once in a while, and keep nitrogen to carbon ratio at 20-30 to 1.

Different things compost at different speeds. If you want to be absolutely safe, i.e. food-grade compost, wait until everything turns to fine spongy black goodness, like really black and soft dirt.

I'm not likely going to wait that long, and will probably use a 1-2" sand cap to keep most of the still decomposing matter out of the water column, right now I'm mainly just marinading the charcoal with nitrogen.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I feel like I'm updating the grow tub rather than 90g tank, sorry lol


BAM! this is what the temporary shrimp tub looks like now 1 week later:








I had to crank the heater up to 74F, set it at the "lowest" setting which I thought was 68F, but it might have been off, got a death a few nights ago when it got down to 40F 

Thanks to Scott (pweifan) who sent me a bazillion plants today to help me back into the hobby (and thanks for labeling everything!). 









Therefore, I had to increase to 4 grow tubs!









Tub1:









Tub2:








The ludwigia pantanal all melted the night when it got to 40F, ugh weak.

Tub3:









Tub4:


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

Looking good so far. I might try the saturated charcoal method next year when it's warmer. How long do you marinate the charcoal?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Monster Fish said:


> Looking good so far. I might try the saturated charcoal method next year when it's warmer. How long do you marinate the charcoal?


I have no idea. Depends on what you're going to use it for, if for yard fertilizer buffer I imagine the longer it soaks the more nutrients it binds. A couple weeks to a month ought to give it some nutrients, depends on the porosity of the charcoal. I'm doing mine for about 6 weeks since that's how long it'll take for me to get everything ready.

FYI, most just soak their "biochar" (charcoal) in liquid gold. Even after it goes in the ground you can still pee on it. But if it's going into the tank that's another story... probably just insert more root tabs or balls of decaying plant matter into the substrate.


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Thanks for sending me the link to this thread, I somehow missed it until now. :icon_eek: I'm glad the plants arrived safely.  It can be a gamble this time of year.

I'm very curious to see how the Terra Preta setup works for you. I'll be setting up my tank in the next month or so with mineralized top soil for the first time. I wonder what are the pros and cons for each type of set up. I'll have to start a journal so we can compare notes. 

Where'd you find the _Ludwigia sedoides_? I couldn't find any (locally) this year.

Good luck with this tank. It looks like it's going to be a beauty!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

pweifan said:


> Thanks for sending me the link to this thread, I somehow missed it until now. :icon_eek: I'm glad the plants arrived safely.  It can be a gamble this time of year.
> 
> I'm very curious to see how the Terra Preta setup works for you. I'll be setting up my tank in the next month or so with mineralized top soil for the first time. I wonder what are the pros and cons for each type of set up. I'll have to start a journal so we can compare notes.
> 
> ...


I think charcoal is just a good buffer, mitigates over/under fertilization. Plants will probably not magically do better, but should be more resilient to neglect. Should be beneficial to add an underlayer before your top soil or just mix it in.

Mosaic plant's tropical. I caught a local pond store right before they moved it indoors and closed down for the season. So it remains in the 74F heated tub. I'll send you some when it warms up


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

If we put charcoal directly in a fully submerged tank, would it be a carbon source for submerged plants, will it break down and create CO2 in the tank by aerobic decomposition?

Michel.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

micheljq said:


> If we put charcoal directly in a fully submerged tank, would it be a carbon source for submerged plants, will it break down and create CO2 in the tank by aerobic decomposition?
> 
> Michel.


Yes, but probably not enough because of its speed of decay. The half-life of carbon-14 is like ~5700 years, and makes up maybe 30% of regular charcoal. Any organic matter decomposition releases CO2, I think leaf litter and peat moss would do a much better job, but still probably not enough to keep up with a high light / tech tank.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

So a few updates, finally moved (still unpacking)! While moving, I dropped the big shrimp bucket while coming off the UHaul truck and shrimp went flying / swimming down the street!  managed to salvage some, but lost quite a few.









Tank is now setup in place directly across the front door. I sanded down the stand frame and stained with a weathered grey to match the room, still need to do drawers and doors this weekend. (Oh, I also crawled underneath this ~100 year old house to put up 4 floor jacks underneath the tank in maybe 1 ft of crawl space, talk about being claustrophobic)









I messed up my planned terra preta composition, ended up using only 2 bags of compost (still smelled like fish and dog poo), and mostly coconut peat, because the compost is still marinating, I dumped in a lot of activated carbon as a buffer to soak up the excess.









Planted some of the plants, no particular order but I tried to get some symmetry.









Going to let it grow emergent for about a week before I flood.


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Off to a good start! Your home looks beautiful 

Will you leave the activated charcoal in there or pull it back out after the tank has cycled?

Are you going to continue with the marination process?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

A little bit of a set back... flooded it too early (and not carefully), so the coco peat went everywhere and would not sink (also all the compost and sh*t), took out the plants and shoved a layer of top soil from the backyard to hold everything down









On the bright side, I did get rid of the old Odyssea light fixture and replaced it with 3x LED 30W flood lights for $20 each (TSSS brand), ends up cheaper than buying T5HO 60" replacement bulbs, runs cooler/less energy and will last longer. Also finished the cabinets.









Riparium growth will be in the back, I need to get those shower caddies with suction cups (plants are just lying sideways now with roots in the water). Muddy, but no longer stinky


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I'm just starting to add riparium plants as well. Some advice I see regularly about the shower caddies is to remove the suction cups and fashion hangers for them. Apparently the suction cups don't hold well. 

I'll be putting two in my tank in a couple weeks and I'll let you know how I end up hanging them.

By the way, the new place looks nice!


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## etane (May 14, 2012)

can't wait to see how this develops.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I got 4x InterDesign Shower Caddies with extra large suction cups (Amazon and Target has them), $6-7 each, they seem to stay in place.









Left side riparium 2x containers, filled with cocopeat + moss









Right side riparium 2x containers (and bundle of plants + water hyacinth temporarily to soak up water column nutrients)









Substrate, layer of backyard Sacramento mud / clay over coco peat & compost to hold it down, the stuff is staining the water white, I'm worried about pH so throwing in more long fiber peat









Exterior is starting to come together, interior needs a lot of work (and settling) to be presentable


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Check my 20L thread, I used pipe hangers and zip ties to hang the caddies from the lip of the tank. It would be nice if they were black, but in time you won't be able to see them anyway.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Happy belated new years! Time for a weekly update.









The riparium containers are still hanging on with the suction cups so I don't see a need to do more work now. I threw in a whole ziplock bag of ketapang leaves so the water went black for 3 days before clearing up a little again, the white dust (clay content from yard soil did settle). However the pH is tending towards neutral unfortunately. I should have used less yard soil, or just forego the TBs idea. In the interim I threw in a ton more sphagnum moss.









This water hyacinth quadrupled in size in about a week and made 3 babies









Lucky bamboo's shooting out crazy roots. These are temporary nitrate suckers, the nitrite and nitrate levels are still off the charts from bubbling compost (well, obviously not well composted poop). I don't think I want to do another bamboo forest scape.









Dug up my old buddha from the 20g, not sure what to do with it. I need larger pieces of driftwood for a presentable scape.









The HC is rooting and getting established









Not sure what's going on with the DHG.

Obviously need to wait longer before throwing in fauna. Snails have overtaken the tank for now. Never seen ramshorn and pond snails so huge!


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## MaStErFiShKeEps (Dec 6, 2010)

I just threw out a lot of dwarf water lettuce, I should have sent it to you. Ugh. 

Your tank looks good though.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

MaStErFiShKeEps said:


> I just threw out a lot of dwarf water lettuce, I should have sent it to you. Ugh.
> 
> Your tank looks good though.


Haha thanks for thinking that  I could just as easily use a sump pump and do a water change, but I'm trying to learn patience (and CA has no water so I'm conserving ). In the mean time I revived my old 9g EHEIM and threw in a couple leftover shrimp to keep myself entertained. And I dug a 1200g pond over the holidays (definitely lost weight this Xmas). The addiction is kicking back in full force!


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## MaStErFiShKeEps (Dec 6, 2010)

I'll start saving it up for you. 

You definitely took a more challenging route- by dirting your tank...I am not that patent to wait for the water to clear up. Haha. I saw your small tank too, it's nice.


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

I just checked out the pond journal. That's going to be really nice 

Good luck with this one, I hope it comes around. The plants are happy and that's the important part. You truly have more patience than I do. I'd be in there "fixing" things and stirring up a bunch of crap.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

The above-the-tank plant shelf is very dark, even devil's ivy is turning yellow and drooping, so I thought I'd add some in-planter LEDs. These aren't even planters, they're storage boxes from Target.









So I added some waterproof LED strips









Long enough to go around all 3 boxes twice









Went with a slightly warm spectrum, estimating 3-4k, contrast with cool white ~7-10k tank light with 2700k rest of house lights









Front view









Water is really clearing up past few days, the riparium planters in the back looks pretty ugly, but I'll just wait for plants to grow out, need more stems! Have another package coming Mon 

There are however large buildups of air pockets, possible sulfide, I've been poking holes here and there, but looks like another month before I can begin stocking with fauna. The MTS I threw in there are no longer visible. Not sure if they're hiding in the substrate or died from digging into poisonous gas bubbles.









And finally a perspective view from my desk, finally starting to all come together


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## devilduck (May 9, 2012)

Great idea! I would maybe paint the boxes so you can't see the substrate through them.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Paint the planter boxes up top? I kind of like white, I'll try to even the peat moss out a bit more. Didn't notice that before.










Got more plants today! 
- 5 stems Ludwigia red sp.
- 8 stems Rotala assorted (I have H'ra, colorata, and singapore)
- 5 stems Rotala caterpillar 
- 3 stems Ludwigia arcuata x repens
- 1 golfball peacock moss (or half portions of peacock moss and subwassertang each)
- Golfball of guppy grass (najas g.)
- 2 stems AR Mini
- 4 stems Ludwigia pink ovalis
- 8+ nodes of Pearlweed (Hemianthus glomeratus)


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

What lurks in the abyss...


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

2 more plant packages came in today!

5x Ludwigia Brevipes
5x Ludwigia X arcuata
14x Lindernia sp India
5x Rotala Macrandra
5x Ludwigia Atlantis

4x Blyxa Japonica
3x Ludwigia Pantanal 
2x Tonina Fluviatilis 
2x Ludwigia Curly Tornado
2x Ludwigia Cuba
2x Rotala Araguaia 
2x Eichhornia Diversifolia 
2x Rotala Indica True









Excuse the mud (and disorganization)!


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Great plant selection so far.  

_Eichhornia Diversifolia_ is on my list of plants to try out in my next tank. With this being a shorter tank, you could try and get it to grow to the surface. It will convert to a floating plant and throws out pretty purple flowers.









I'm looking forward to seeing this tank fill in.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Nice! You obviously have more knowledge of plant species than I do  did not know they could grow emergent, but they're fairly easy in the tank. Not a personal favorite of mine since they kind of resemble palm trees, will try emergent.

I might bring the hang-on-back filter "planters" soon in another project soon, assuming Petco still has inventory for their $/gallon tank sale...


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Tank update, so I dug 99% of the plants up and re-appropriated back in clumps, at least this way I can ID by the cluster and go with a Dutch-like style. 

TDS has shot up from 50 to 200 in the past 2 weeks due to constant mucking around. I'm foreseeing more rearranging ahead so probably won't add fauna for another month, and after a water change. The waiting is torture 










Debating on whether to (1) separate out the middle space as a flatter beach using blyxa japonica (currently planted here); (2) move them to the two edges of the tank since they tend to get big and frame it; or (3) take them out all together since they don't seem to fit, and just stick to stems and smaller runners/ and rosettes. 

Trying to go according to something like --








but with a larger middle negative space.

Hmm, anyone have any suggestions?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Ok I pulled the blyxa and threw them on the sides, look a little better.

Got more plants today from Nam (sactown9), who sent me more than I knew what to do with! So some went out to the pond. 

Christmas Moss
Fissiden Moss
Hydrocotyle sp. ''Japan' (went in emergent caddies)
Alternanthera Reineckii
Marsilea Minuta
Stargrass
Mini Lobelias Cardinalis 

From the front door (finally did my in-cabinet lighting, LED strips are awesome):









Latest FTS:









FYI I did throw in a 0.5" black diamond blasting sand cap, the backyard mud was too volatile. I think I'll give it another week for the roots to establish, then time to do a water change and throw in shrimpies & fishies!


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

What fish and shrimp are you leaning towards?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

pweifan said:


> What fish and shrimp are you leaning towards?


Thinking of PFRs, CBS/CRS, 12x chili rasboras, 12x pygmaeus corydoras or otocinclus (leaning towards pygmy cories, but perhaps I'll just get both  baby otos are incredibly cute too)


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Nitrates of 160ppm+ and nitrites of 5ppm+ 2 weeks ago are now reading 0/0, go plants! 

TDS is 207, not bad but will do a partially conditioned water change tomorrow.

pH is a whooping 7.4 despite all the peat moss and coconut fiber. pH in my 9 gallon is a correct 6.4. This is puzzling, I'm thinking the combination of backyard mud + high charcoal content of the substrate in this tank is buffering it upwards .


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Parameters stable. TDS 88. Not much vertical growth since I've been continually clipping and planting more densely (and added another 2" layer of peat moss along the back). Just did a panacur bomb since there appears to be a hydra infestation which will likely interfere with shrimp breeding









Incoming shrimp, 30 mischlings


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

That's some happy plant growth there. The difference between the last 2 FTS is only 9 days apart on a newly-planted tank. I think you're doing something right with this experiment  I'm looking forward to the jungle it will become.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks  there's a lot of trapped air under the coco fiber, one good thing is it readily oxygenates the roots and gives more room to grow, the worry is sulfide buildup, but so far so good. The substrate just *burps* every other minute or so, but shrimp are unfazed. I vacuumed out about 20 hydra, panacur appears to be working, no casualties so far.

Some obligatory shrimp shots..









the feeding area is a ghost town, hey're ignoring my blanched spinach and borneo grow wafers









guess that's cause there's food in the peat moss


















a baby, size of a pond snail 









food on the back glass, yum, algae









a surviving cherry from my shrimp-tastrophe









big CRS mama

hoping I didn't jump the gun with the shrimp batch, *fingers crossed*


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Ugh. Had a mass die off 

Rechecked water parameters, ammonia/nitrite/nitrates all 0/0/0, TDS 100 though, pH 6.8, forgot to check KH earlier, which is 4-5 and a little high for Bees, not sure what the culprit is. 

Interestingly, all the red (CRS) died out, all the black CBS are still kicking. To be safe I moved them to the 9g. I'm ordering cherries for this tank instead. Fish coming tomorrow.

*Update: the culprit was fluctuating water parameters due to the 70% water change the day prior. Lesson learned, it's not so much as the exact parameters, as that sensitive species do not like change. *Never* do more than a 10% water change if something is living in the tank.


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Sorry to hear that  Are you just going to ride it out and slowly adjust the parameters or get all crazy and replace the substrate?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Not messing with the substrate, whatever lives lives 

at least plants are alive, keeping everything low, did another trim to get some stems for the 5g-spec, the DHG is spreading like fire! HC keeps getting covered by layers of dirt though and is slower spreading


















Riparium boxes left









Riparium boxes right


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

New fauna from Rachael (received #/order #):









14/12 otocinclus









14/12 pygmaeus corydoras









11/12 boraras brigittae (2 doa)









2/4 thai microcrabs, 2 got eaten during transit?

6/5 zebra nerites

overall not a bad haul 

some of the fish look weakened / flopping over, may or may not recover, temp fluctuation probably wasn't good even with overnight fedex, survival of the fittest :/


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Still looks fairly empty

Fish have colored back up, even the halfway turned over almost-dead ones appear to be .. well, still living 









Boraras brigittae









Corydoras pygmaeus









Otocinclus


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

The Persicaria Kawagoeanum is a weed, keep chopping it back daily and it doesn't recede









Otos & boraras eating out of the feeding tray









School of cories, they just seem to eat dirt









Crabby!


Also new plants:

2 Ammannia Senegalensis
1 Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis (left)
1 Lilaeopsis Chinensis (right)


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

You picked very similar fish to what I plan on stocking. The only fish you don't have that I'll be getting are hatchets. I'm going to get marbles because they stay small, but you've got room for silvers if you want something flashy.

I visited my parents this weekend and saw the progress of the stand my step-dad is building. It's going to be gorgeous.  I'm hoping it will be complete in the next few weeks. I'm getting antsy to set it up.

How's your _Persicaria kawagoeanum_ looking? I can't tell from the picture, but is it truly looking weedy with long internode length or is it proportional to the tank? If you've got it happy, then I'd say the substrate is probably a success. Keep the pics coming! This is beautiful. You are much quicker with projects than I am


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

pweifan said:


> You picked very similar fish to what I plan on stocking. The only fish you don't have that I'll be getting are hatchets. I'm going to get marbles because they stay small, but you've got room for silvers if you want something flashy.
> 
> I visited my parents this weekend and saw the progress of the stand my step-dad is building. It's going to be gorgeous.  I'm hoping it will be complete in the next few weeks. I'm getting antsy to set it up.
> 
> How's your _Persicaria kawagoeanum_ looking? I can't tell from the picture, but is it truly looking weedy with long internode length or is it proportional to the tank? If you've got it happy, then I'd say the substrate is probably a success. Keep the pics coming! This is beautiful. You are much quicker with projects than I am


Hatchet fish look awesome, but I'm pretty sure they'll put a big dent on my eventual shrimp population.

I ended up placing an order for more boraras species (3 types) that should be getting in on Thursday, some more corydoras. It'll be interesting to observe behavioral differences in the boraras and cull the aggressive ones into the greenhouse tanks.

The persicaria kawagoeanum appear to grow as fast, if not faster, than the garden variety ludwigia repens. I've been clipping the stems daily or every other day to throw in the other tanks, so don't have any photos to show progress.









Not sure about internodal length?

The test for this substrate is time, I think anything will grow in nutrient saturated muck in the short term. Hoping it stays stable. One thing I regret is throwing too much spagnum moss on the top, I cut some stems wayy too short and lot of stems I planted are not actually reaching into the substrate, thus not rooting, if I pushed them down they'd just be blocked out by the moss. Add insult to injury the moss isn't buffering my pH at all (still reads 7).

Here's a slightly over saturated shot showing the ground covers creeping in:









The tiny HC clumps are becoming bigger clumps. The DHG is spreading a little further but mostly growing denser. One pantanal stem is growing pretty fast on the right, might be time to clip it


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Fat boraras









Fat oto


Feeding dish shots:


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Thanks for the closeup, the P. kawagoeanum looks great. I agree, if the tank maintains this for several months that's a better test, but I think it's a great starting point. The over-saturated shot really shows off how happy it is.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

The dimensions on the tank are perfect. Short and shallow is the new black and there's a reason why.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

After observing growth in several tanks with different mixes, if I could do this all over again I would try something simpler and more effective--

~95% vermicompost, ~5% bentonite/montmorillonite clay, oscomote+ in large portions, mix, then top off with a 0.5-1" layer of activated carbon. No filler, i.e. useless sand, or long fiber peat moss into the water column (they can go in the substrate however to replenish humic substances)

Perhaps also seed mychorrhizal fungi and beneficial nematodes, which is probably readily found in the backyard dirt if not already in the vermicompost.

I recommend reading this http://bialix.com/amania/Chapters/Tech/sub-aquasoils_en.html which roughly breaks down the composition of every commercial substrate including ADA's.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

MOAR FISH!


















2x rainbow endlers (hybrid), 1M1F









2x tiger endlers (hybrid), was sent 2 Ms









4x endlers, supposedly pure, but look a little big, 2M2F; 5 olive nerites









BORARAS!
- 10x Boraras urophthalmoides
- 10x Boraras micros
- 10x Boraras maculatus

also picked up 11x more pygmy cories

The endlers will be moved out after the 55gs establish. Also contemplating moving the boraras maculatus (black dot on side), they seem much larger and more aggressive than the others, probably not shrimp safe.









Interesting schooling behavior across all species, in front is a male rainbow and a tiger endler, mostly boraras maculatus and pygmy cories. Will get some better pics later


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

So I pulled out the blyxa, just doesn't fit. Had to cut the roots (over 6" in 1-2 weeks?) so as to not drag up the whole tank. 









It dug into compost (see leaf litter & muck), soft fluffy substrate supports rooting, just like in terrestrial plants

Provided an opportunity for an interesting TDS experiment. Initial TDS 130.

Mucked up the tank by pulling plants, completely opaque yellow-brown. TDS now reads 160.









1 hour later, mostly white-ish clay in the water column. TDS down to 140









2 hours later, TDS 135









3 hours, mostly clear, some haze, TDS 130









Somehow the TDS equalized back to what it was before I stirred up the dirt. Odd because I thought TDS could only go upwards with simple mechanical filters using only biomedia. But something in the water must be binding the excess and bringing it back down or through the filter.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

No more clipping for a while, using this as a baseline photo to track 2 weeks growth, much better w/o the blyxa on the sides 










I think the DHG has reached critical mass and is spreading faster each day. There is a medium outbreak of black hair algae, probably due to sharp increase in heavy stocking and feeding, will give it a few weeks to work itself out. TDS read 127 this morning, I can't figure out why it's going down and not building up (yes my meter works, tried 2 different ones, and haven't topped off in a while)

Unrelated note, the pachira aquatica by the tank is growing really well (about the height of the tank when I got it, top 12" new growth). This room gets almost no light, so it's thriving off part of the left LED flood light.


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

I think it does look better without the Blyxa. I'm also curious to see your growth rate, I'm sure it will be note-worthy.

I honestly don't know anything about TDS (or much about ferts and target levels in general), but this post has me interested a bit. Time to read up


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Bought 100 of what appeared to be Sakura grade RCS on Aquabid...









One bag came broken









DOA bag of stinky shrimp, I thought it was sampler pack of red plants at first









50/100, and a hitch hiker fish, will see about getting a partial refund, sigh


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Sneak peak of the latest breeding stock









Dual red carapace









Mutant purple tiger rilis?


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## MaStErFiShKeEps (Dec 6, 2010)

I love it!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Growth Tracker - Daily


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## dpod (Sep 16, 2014)

xenxes said:


> Mutant purple tiger rilis?


That is one beautiful shrimp! :drool:


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I just found this thread. I'm really interested to see how the substrate you've created works long-term. I do vermicomposting to feed my houseplants and small garden, but never once thought of using it in the tank!


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## Garnkrevor Garnkrevor (Feb 16, 2014)

This tank is awesome. I wish I could convince my wife to put one of these in the house but I think I am pushing it already with my 47G, 60G, and 75G plus all my nanos. 

I really like the look of the low long and wide tanks. 

Keep up the good work Xenxes, I really like the frequent updates to the thread.


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

xenxes said:


> After observing growth in several tanks with different mixes, if I could do this all over again I would try something simpler and more effective--
> 
> ~95% vermicompost, ~5% bentonite/montmorillonite clay, oscomote+ in large portions, mix, then top off with a 0.5-1" layer of activated carbon. No filler, i.e. useless sand, or long fiber peat moss into the water column (they can go in the substrate however to replenish humic substances)
> 
> ...


Would you cap it? Would you still saturate the carbon? For your carbon source be the wood charcoal or the activated carbon as seen in aquarium stores? Hoe thick of a soil layer? I am about to dirt my first tank, and have a bunch of worm gold wormcastings laying around.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

pandacory said:


> Would you cap it? Would you still saturate the carbon? For your carbon source be the wood charcoal or the activated carbon as seen in aquarium stores? Hoe thick of a soil layer? I am about to dirt my first tank, and have a bunch of worm gold wormcastings laying around.


mostly worm castings + bentonite / montmorillonite clay as a binder + mixed with charcoal bits. I'd still cap with a thin layer of carbon if you want to "quick start" the tank, otherwise you will likely have nitrate leeching (which I'm addressing using a lot of floaters). Activated will probably work better but wood charcoal should work too. I've been getting 3lbs Accurel Pellets for about $7-9 on Amazon. 

Pieces of the charcoal and worm casting will probably float for a day to a week, activated carbon is denser and will hold it all down. I normally let it soak for about a week before flooding.

Thickness of soil layer depending on what plants you plan on using and the amount of light level you want (closer to surface you will get a higher PAR), I'd recommend at least 2". I used 3" in this 18" tall tank, and about 5" in my taller ones.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Some slightly better pics of the latest stock, hard to take pics of fast moving fish the size of shrimp (or smaller!)









feeding frenzy!









one of the new pygmaeus corydoras checking out a pond snail









endler, though likely endler x guppy hybrid









rainbow endler









tiger endler









female endler/guppy









boraras maculatus (most aggressive of the boraras)









boraras urophthalmoides, yellowish (fairly skittish)









boraras urophthalmoides, reddish 









boraras micros (most skittish)









red rili









bloody marry (tho probably dark enough to be chocolate), excuse the bba


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

the otos are perfectly camouflaged on your substrate!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

So this is 5-days growth, not too shabby:


















The root-established plants are growing, the new clippings stayed at the same height (as they need to dig in first).

Some observations, TDS is at 105 (topped off with rainwater a few days ago), the substrate is still bubbling up at frequent intervals causing TDS to buffer up (but it never exceeded 130 no matter how I messed it up, the magic number, still a mystery!). Down side of using expanding coconut coir in the substrate, it's too fluffy! Plants are powerful, the ammonia doesn't get a chance to sit in the water column before they take it up directly. Moreover, the fish swarm to the dirt and microorganisms that bubbles up and gobbles it all up.

In hindsight, all that paranoia about sterility, i.e. baking dirt, seems to be nonsense, keeping in mind that I still have rotting organic matter in the tank right now, and the bubbles smell of rotten eggs. The larger concentrations of hydrogen sulfide is a concern, I haven't observed it killing any fauna since it probably disperses quickly and is neutralized. For funsies I'm planning to add in some freshwater clams to speed up the gas pocket releases in the substrate and hopefully also synthesize some H2S through their gills! 

I am keeping floaters in here to combat BBA, I took them out prematurely or too fast, which, in combination with recent heavy stocking and feeding is what likely caused the algae outbreak in the first place. 2 days after throwing the floaters back the BBA is starting to melt. With such a nutrient rich substrate heavy planting at the outset is a must, plus floaters and emergent plants are recommended.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

What site hosts your images? They are all blocked on my PC. Just interested. Wish I had more to comment on. I see your thread up often


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Freemananana said:


> What site hosts your images? They are all blocked on my PC. Just interested. Wish I had more to comment on. I see your thread up often


Facebook


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## rezende (Dec 19, 2014)

Hello xenxes! When l first saw your aquarium at the beginning of this thread, that cloud water (a soup), and the mess, I confess I didn't expect this result at all! I own three dirty tanks myself but I've been always scared about messing up with potting soil and stuff! Anyways... your result is brilliant!!! It looks so natural and "organic"!
I honestly prefer this than much of the contest-like tanks that are usually so clean and artificial.
I bet your fishes are happier!!!


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Your growth is moving along a pretty good clip. I like that it's compact and not weedy/stringy. Looks great 

I think I missed (or perhaps just forgot) an important aspect... you don't have any CO2 injection going into this tank, do you? Are you using Excel/glut at all?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

rezende said:


> Hello xenxes! When l first saw your aquarium at the beginning of this thread, that cloud water (a soup), and the mess, I confess I didn't expect this result at all! I own three dirty tanks myself but I've been always scared about messing up with potting soil and stuff! Anyways... your result is brilliant!!! It looks so natural and "organic"!
> I honestly prefer this than much of the contest-like tanks that are usually so clean and artificial.
> I bet your fishes are happier!!!


TY  one learns to live with algae and whatever organisms come as hitchhikers. I remember not long ago when all snails were considered pests, and people would dose all sorts of chemicals. Live and let live is hard with a tank, and it's taken a lot of self restraint to sometimes just let it be, especially when I see BBA! The goal is a practically maintenance-free tank.



pweifan said:


> Your growth is moving along a pretty good clip. I like that it's compact and not weedy/stringy. Looks great
> 
> I think I missed (or perhaps just forgot) an important aspect... you don't have any CO2 injection going into this tank, do you? Are you using Excel/glut at all?


No CO2 because I'm lazy (having it would probably double the growth, but I want to be able to forget about it for a few months or go on a long vacation w/o having to get a tank sitter, or some WiFi monitored controller). 

I thought about Excel and H2O2 spot treatments for the BBA, but then restrained myself. Sure they help plants in the short term, but I remember dosing 1/2 the amount and having invert casualties. Instead I just threw in more floaters to outcompete algae in the water column. I think maybe 6 months from now when the substrate stops bubbling I won't need the floaters anymore. I think the water hyacinth is doubling in volume every 2 weeks under the current lighting. Running two canisters and overplanting seems crucial with the amount of decomposing organic material. I wish I went with more ripe worm compost.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Big shrimpment!









~20x OEBTs
~16x CRS (high pH 7.4 hardy strain)
Most went in this tank but a few choice ones went into the 9g, along with some TiBees (BKK x. SuperTiger) that also came in today. So far there is no predation, even with the largest Boraras Maculatus, or the endler guppies, they seem to feed on mainly microorganisms in the water column. I have been feeding them Hikari first bites (powderized food) or very finely crushed up flakes. With sticks, they sit on the bottom and wait for the shrimp to pick at it to make a mess. I doubt new hatchlings will be completely safe, but so far so good. Hoping it stays this way. 









~6x freshwater clams (only 4 smaller ones going in)









I prefer the lighter blue OEBTs, the royal blue / black are harder to find (yay BBA )









A hardy strain of CRS, not the best quality, but breeds in 7.4 pH and 200+ TDS









One of the clams coming to life

And finally leaving you with another tank shot before I head back to doing some real work


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## Sub1117 (Sep 21, 2014)

It looks like everything is coming along pretty well. It will look so nice when everything fills in!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

xenxes said:


> I prefer the lighter blue OEBTs, the royal blue / black are harder to find (yay BBA )


That's not BBA! That's staghorn! Too much light, not enough co2, high organics.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks for the correction, I actually have both. I'm lowering the light cycle from 16 hours to 10. I know the carbon couldn't keep up without injection, but the thought before was to maximize the water hyacinth growth in order to clear up early water column ammonia spikes from the organic substrate. Now that I won't be disturbing the substrate as much I can slow down the floater & emersed plant growth. From past experience 8-10 hours light cycles of medium-high light on a 80%+ planted substrate kept most of the algae at bay, I don't see it as a problem here since there is actually more surface area vs. water volume. Long shallow tanks are the way to go.

Couldn't help myself, did a premature trim this morning since the 55's are in dire need of plants. Will track weekly growth later. Fished out what endler x guppies I could since they were beginning to show more aggressive/dominant behavior, i.e. the alpha rainbow endler repeatedly nipped at an oto's head (went into the 55gs). If it goes after an armored catfish 2x its size there's no doubt it will begin hunting shrimp soon.

New strains of CRS & OEBTs show no signs of stress, not a single death /fingers crossed 









Another shave


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Staghorn loves things which are in decomposition, it gets confused when there are a lot of organic molecules in the water and tends to attach to rocks and other things.
I don't mind staghorn so much as water changes and good growth can typically prevent its proliferation, just gotta get the old stuff off.
Bba I've never really been able to get a grip on, it does what it wants!

16 hours is a ton of light.. Ten is even too much IMO.
Keep in mind the only planted aquatic ecosystems that get that kind of light are faster flowing highly oxygenated waterways. Anything remotely stagnant would be an algae cesspool.
Our tanks and plants are much more akin to the kind of pools with just a few hours of mottled sunlight and shade for the rest of the day and they do well like that! 

8 hours is a sweet spot if you dont have dimming bulbs


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

Are you planning on feeding the clams? Not exactly sure what their feeding requirements are.

I had one in a tank for probably 8 months. Then i upgraded my filtration and within a few weeks, he was completely engulfed in snails, like ants pulling a dead bug apart.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I have no idea, I think they need pretty dirty water, i.e. algae particles. I only threw 4 (now 3) little ones in here to test, if they die I'll just chalk it up as fertilizer / snail food. They dug into the substrate and are nowhere to be seen.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Another 5 day growth after trim. Removed the star grass since it was getting too clumpy. Not sure what to fill in its place yet.









Staghorn is in check and only affecting the DHG (lowered photo cycle to 11 hours which is fine w/ the current amount of floaters; added more tannins to inhibit algae growth). I'm not lowering photoperiod anymore because I want the emergent plants to establish more, for example, this peace lily's roots is beginning to reach the bottom of the caddie and spreading out. Eventually the floaters will go, and these large emersed riparium plants will be my nitrate-eating powerhouses.









The pet peeve about this tank is the limited openings in the back. There's a limited slit for plants to grow out, so I'm planning moss and h. japan to grow out and cascade down from the boxes, already making some progress

















Note the different red tones of the RCS, a few are exerting darker hind sections, one on the left is almost purple, offspring should be interesting, planning to mix in some other variations soon


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Another TDS observation, TDS shot back up to 120 as of this morning due to adding more alder cones to the tank. 

This evening I disturbed the substrate and muddied up the waters again from rearranging plants. The water is now cloudy, but the TDS went back down to 115. It's the montmorillonite clay content of the substrate that acts like a flocculent. When the water is cloudy, the clay in the water column is attracting particles and then settle back down to the bottom, cleaning the water. Observable TDS actually goes down!

Now it obviously doesn't bind everything and rather partially dissolves, I slurried some into a glass of tap and it shot up from 48 to 58 in 24 hours.

Still, makes me want to throw more clay into the tank!

Also did some further research on the staghorn outbreak, apparently decomposing organic matter can be taken up by some algae species directly but not by plants. The problem is probably better mitigated by letting my substrate _completely _compost first. Ohwell, hindsight. For now lower light will help control it, but it will just go away over time as the organic matter is all broken down.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Caught a terrible case of aquarium herpes, i.e. duck weed. Spent 2 hours trying to get it all out, probably didn't work.









Giant berried mama, finally









Om nom nom algae


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Woohoo more macro shots!









algae-covered microcrab









boraras maculatus, in dirty water... look at all those particles!









shrimp! and bba + staghorn









hidden oto crouching snail









baby nerite teeth next to baby pond snail, on scratched up GSA filled acrylic

the tank is like a Picasso, maybe I shouldn't take pics too close...


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## Chizpa305 (Feb 13, 2011)

[/quote]

That is a long tank!!! And great collection of plats and fauna. I have always wanted to do something like that but don't have the space. Are you going for a dutch style? I love those.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Are you running carbon in the filter?
A few big water changes and some carbon could possibly help with the algae issues


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks! I'm not artistic enough to go Dutch. Right now I'm just seeing what grows and what doesn't, what colors they turn to and what contrasts, so I can reorganize. 

Planning to turn over to the dark side and go CO2 with this one in a few weeks. Mainly because I need a production tank to grow more plants to quickly fill the other tanks. That'll take care of the remaining algae issues hopefully as well.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Did some more rearranging and more trimming, sort of. I just know what I don't like and rip it up, but then end up replacing it with something else I don't quite like. 

1 week before/after
















Hard to see in here on a 16:9 photo, but the groundcover is definitely filling in, surprised the HC (in the middle) is spreading fairly fast in here w/o CO2, despite strong algae presence.

Left side:








Alternanthera Reineckii is definitely too big, the foliage gets really long and not a fan of the pink/magenta underside, it'll all have to go eventually, not sure what to replace it with, added some L. glandulosa clippings hoping it stays red in here.

Right side:








Tall stems with nothing on it in back left are ludwigia sediodes, never seen it used in an aquarium, thought I'd experiment. Likely temporary (just reviving as they're dormant). Middle is red pantanal which is extremely green right now, but another 2" or so and it will hopefully start changing colors.

Giant mess right now. The problem is the plants don't grow the way they do in my mind, either they turn a different color (when a stem approaches the top 6-8" of water the color changes very drastically), or the leaves get too big, or somehow I placed 2 similar looking plant clumps side by side.


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Keeps filling in and looking great 

It's definitely a process to figure out what plants you like, what goes well together etc. I understand completely.

I think adding the CO2 might be a good idea, based on your most recent macro shots. However if you second-guess that approach, I had one thought: What about siphoning off the organics out of the top 1/4-1/2 inch of the substrate? Essentially cap it off without having to add additional substrate. I'd say your plants are healthy enough with deep enough roots to handle it (just be careful around the HC). Anyway, just a thought...


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## Apistia (Sep 28, 2014)

xenxes said:


> Latest FTS (2/11/14):


these are gorgeous fish. can you tell me which species they are? when I do image searches for your list of fauna I find nothing that looks like these. thanks!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

That's boraras brigittae


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Remember that batch of bad shrimp? Instead of a refund I got a store credit and decided to get more shrimpments! (someone stop me!)

Yellows








("BKK"s though not really are going in the 9g). This batch was sold as "24k", some have white pigments primarily on the back to give it a metallic look. Interesting look in the tank.

Oranges









Blues








These are C-Sky's new "Sea Sky" blue, but I see a few carbon rilis mixed in









It's apparent these are not a chocolate morph, but just bluer blue rilis -> jelly/velvet -> blue dreams (some confusion here as to which morph depending on seller). Either way they're gorgeous, this blue right out of the bag (light/melanin deprivation), and look at the legs!, will have to get some more photos later under bright tank lighting.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I dumped all of the above into the 90g. Expensive way to breed brown shrimp you say? Nah, this will be my common denominator tank, shrimps that survive in here will be chosen for color-specific tanks. That and I really like mutts. I also seeded 21 strains of gram-positive bacteria in here (don't ask), into the water column and directly into the substrate, i.e. bokashi composting.

Anyway! Get ready for a million shrimp pics!

First some group shots:








You can see how "natural"ly dirty and algae filled the tank has become, yet from far away it's pretty, live and let live I guess, until that CO2 tank comes in. 









Coming to feed with the otos









50 Shades of Red + orange + yellow









Red, orange, yellow, blue









+ CRS and OEBT









Crouching shrimp hidden corie

Now for some shrimp-specific ones:









My hunch was right, the blues darkened up even more if that can be believed, one was so blue he turned black (like royal OEBT blue -> black tiger color)! This strain is basically carbon rili selectively breeding away the black and more of the blue, I guess this stray made it in with the batch









What the better blue dream and/or C-Sky's blue strain should look like, not perfect, this has a peacock tail though (zoom in for 4 pretty dots)









Another with a black tail









A yellow with the white reflective back, pictures don't do it justice, it's just more reflective than any of the other strains, metallic silver-gold in real life









Finally a pretty silver-red ramshorn, maybe I should begin selectively breeding these too


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Can tell it's a good hardy batch, acclimation? What acclimation, just dump it in. Shrimp balling on food immediately


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## Chizpa305 (Feb 13, 2011)

So many different shrimps... Are they all separate species or are some of them just different strains? I mean, do they reproduce among each other? If they do reproduce, would you be interested in selling a few?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

3 separate species in there, a lot of neos though, will likely crossbreed and maybe turn brown, will let you know if I have extras.

Pics of the day:


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

This is a great tank!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Still constantly trimming the back, but the front groundcover is drastically coming in, HC and DHG can cover even in a low tech, just not without algae. Added a heater to the back (74F now instead of 68F), seems to have upped the growth rate a bit.









From the top, "golden back" yellows are the most eye catching shrimp in this tank, they reflect off the light much more brightly than even the reddest red


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

great tank, great photography, great job


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

this tank is going places


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

TY  last shot with no CO2, officially going high-tech tonight!









Added plants from AFA (more rotala h'ra; pogostemon erectus, pogostemon stellata "donssan", micranthemum monte carlo); 
Removed HM and microanthemum umbrosum)









Added 12x F2 Aura Blue (c. serrata) x snow white (c. cantonensis) hybrids, not particularly good looking, but hardy cross to mix in with TBs









Another shrimp ball, 6 variations, can you spot them all?


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## rezende (Dec 19, 2014)

I have a mixed feeling about your decision [emoji4] I expect it to have a strong positive impact in growth, of course, but I was still hopeful you were gonna make it in low tech! The natural look you gave to this tank is inspiring so far!
I'm personally not a big fan of those crystal clear fairy-tale'ish tanks from most aquascape contests. [emoji1]


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

So how did it go?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

rezende said:


> I have a mixed feeling about your decision [emoji4] I expect it to have a strong positive impact in growth, of course, but I was still hopeful you were gonna make it in low tech! The natural look you gave to this tank is inspiring so far!
> I'm personally not a big fan of those crystal clear fairy-tale'ish tanks from most aquascape contests. [emoji1]


It will look exactly the same, just faster growth  only doing 0.5-1 bubbles per seconds. No crazy floating island trimming or bonsai scaping! I'm getting too lazy for that.



pweifan said:


> So how did it go?


Nothing is dead so far, my solenoid didn't fully work so it kept gassing overnight... I think the low gauge pressure was too high? Turning the input down even lower.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Is it too early to post an update? 1-day of CO2 before/after (lol):


















Actually... looks like quite a bit of visible growth at just 1bps for 10 hours. Especially on the right side as this was where the diffuser was before.

The diffusion is pretty weak right now, moved the ceramic diffuser to under an outflow on the left side (bet there will be more left-side growth tomorrow). Waiting on a new inline reactor to get here (ordered the wrong size earlier, le sigh)


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

A few more shots, shrimp first!

Saw more of the Aura Blue hybrids out, they're in different variations..









This one looks more traditional, but has a bit Tangerine Tiger, see the tail?









Here is definitely a TB hybrid, spots of white on the rear back, I guess this is how pintos start?









Berried orange mama

Plants... single stem of ludwigia sediodes surviving, I'm nursing it in the back of the tank. These things melt away so easily at <60F, maybe even just <70F










Lastly, some fish on shrimp on fish action, say what?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Newly berried yellow mama w/ golden eggs:









Wish the tiger / CRS would start breeding.


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## rezende (Dec 19, 2014)

Hey xenxes, did you notice any difference in your HC after and before CO2?
HC is my biggest headache in my low tech 55g. They break apart and float. I really don't understand what's the matter with them. They don't die, but don't create roots either...


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

Welcome to Sacramento. What an incredible tank. I am more than jealous of the shrimp in your tank, along with everything else for that matter. Do you shop at the local stores at all?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

rezende said:


> Hey xenxes, did you notice any difference in your HC after and before CO2?
> HC is my biggest headache in my low tech 55g. They break apart and float. I really don't understand what's the matter with them. They don't die, but don't create roots either...


HC still grows very slow, but I've only had a week to gauge it with. I was able to grow HC very dense with spot dose of Excel + H2O2 directly onto it in a low tech setup, but if you're keeping sensitive fauna Excel shouldn't be a go-to solution. A better solution would be to change to Micranthemum Monte Carlo, slightly larger leaves but look just as good and lower maintenance.



Aquadawg said:


> Welcome to Sacramento. What an incredible tank. I am more than jealous of the shrimp in your tank, along with everything else for that matter. Do you shop at the local stores at all?


Thanks! Loving Sac so far, the LFS are okay, only been to JoJos for some koi, picked up a few stems in AFA in SF, but very few stores have species I'm looking for or ones I don't have already, the TPT forum beats any LFS for plants and shrimp.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

1 week CO2 update, before/after:


















Here's the sys, Victor SGT500 regulator, post body kit from AlanLe. It's not as pretty as the dual output one he built me for the greenhouse, heavy scratches and some broken parts in my first build. Sera CO2 1000 reactor tied to the Fluval 405 canister output.










Have to admit, CO2 is worth it, despite the initial massive headache and expense. 

Look at how dense the DHG growth is in one week, algae practically disappeared, and the stems exploded. I still have yet to encounter "pearling", perhaps 2bps is too low but I don't see a need to increase it, cylinder will last longer 

Doing 10 hours light + 2bps CO2 (same timer) now. My 30W LEDs are actually medium light, several stems I got from AFA turned less red, and only return to their original vibrant colors when maybe ~12" away from the light. When these lights die I'll upgrade to 50Ws.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

red and blue neos









two caridina hybrids


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

I would watch this tank for hours


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Growth update; need to trim better


















Farther away, the pothos and philodendron are slower growing than I thought, probably b/c there's no light here other than the LED strands


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## skanderson (Jul 25, 2010)

looks very nice would love to see some up close pics again. thanks, steve


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

You can't beat that with a stick now can you? Looks great!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## umarnasir335 (Mar 2, 2014)

Looking spectacular! Isn't it satisfying to get to this step and to take in all the magnificence of it? Must be nice with a tank that long, lol


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks! Still gotta do some weeding / rearranging, and wait out the green string algae (CO2 killed staghorn but these came out)... wonder what's off balance?

2 bps, 9 hour medium light cycle, plenty of substrate nutrients. Could it be a *lack* of water column nutrients? I went out of town for 10 days (no feeding) and the GSA came out.


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

I am assuming and hoping  that your shrimp and fish are doing fine. I would try 3 bps CO2 and see if that helps. Just a beautiful tank though!!!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I "OD'd" the tank initially with maybe 5-6 bps, then set it down to 2. Some shrimp died from the initial shock, will try to up from 2 to 3 though!

Also hoping for some input on the foreground. Right now I have DHG on left and right sides sandwiched by HC in the middle. Contemplating taking out all the DHG and just using HC. I like the look of grass but it's harder to scoop out shrimplets. Thoughts?


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## Kntry (Dec 26, 2013)

Awesome tank and shrimp.

How do you keep the shrimp from interbreeding? I have RCS and would like to get other colors but figured they'd mix together and I'd have a mess!


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

xenxes said:


> I "OD'd" the tank initially with maybe 5-6 bps, then set it down to 2. Some shrimp died from the initial shock, will try to up from 2 to 3 though!
> 
> Also hoping for some input on the foreground. Right now I have DHG on left and right sides sandwiched by HC in the middle. Contemplating taking out all the DHG and just using HC. I like the look of grass but it's harder to scoop out shrimplets. Thoughts?


As your plant mass increases so can your bps. 5-6 in the beginning was definitely too much but may eventually be okay as plant mass increases. Also is your CO2 on a timer? If not, 1 hour on before lights and 1 hour off before lights off. 

I also like the look of grass and think the protection it provides is worth some of the trouble. I like using a simple clear home depot siphon tube that sucks them up and takes them to a small bucket. Just use your thumb to control the pressure so your shrimp enjoy the ride lol!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

It's on a timer, just same timer as lights though, 9 hours on. Good thinking on the suction, might do that, few PFRs just popped all their eggs and needs to be sucked out / thrown in other tanks. And shrimps do mix, I just don't care 

Forgot a few shots of back-planters from above


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## Kntry (Dec 26, 2013)

Aquadawg said:


> As your plant mass increases so can your bps.


Thanks for clearing this up. I thought it was the case but wasn't sure. I have my CO2 opened so much on my 75 gallon that it's impossible to count the bps and the pH checker is still blue but my tank is heavily planted.


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## PhysicsDude55 (Oct 24, 2011)

Looks very nice! Very lush! Good job.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Upgraded to 50W flood lights, a little bigger









Did a little trimming. Plants are pearling constantly with the higher light now! Seeing a little color come back. BPS now maybe 5-6.









Higher light, but not so much it's a distraction (also hanging a little lower).


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

This is looking really nice! I think the CO2 was the right call.


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## Aquadawg (Aug 18, 2012)

xenxes said:


> Upgraded to 50W flood lights, a little bigger
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really looks nice!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

The elusive pearling!


























Still some unsightly algae, but that can't be helped, give it another month or so.. too many organics still









All the oxygen!









Shrimps berrying nicely, even the bees

FTS:


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Love this tank!


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## Kntry (Dec 26, 2013)

I wish I could get my DBT to grow in like that. 

Beautiful!


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## Mitashade (Jan 8, 2015)

This tank has a serious case of 'wish-it-were-mine' syndrome. So great, going to be so beautiful. <3


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

A little more overgrown, but a lot more shadow on the foreground. Light is still not "high" enough for the red pantanal to turn red, hmmm..


















Also, all my non-root feeder plants died off! Now I know what requires EI dosing (and therefore avoid for low maintenance tanks), i.e. tonina sp.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Been following this build and very much like the progress.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

This is now an exclusively yellow-neo tank (+ also caridina mixes). I just can't manage the shrimplosion, so crossing experimentation will have to take place in smaller tanks with less foliage.

Culled out the reds--









As well as the hybridized brown/clear/blues--


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Update


















Left emersed









Right emersed


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

This has filled in so well  It looks incredible. I will probably be begging for plants in the next few weeks.


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## st3phaniex3 (Dec 18, 2014)

xenxes said:


> Update
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow!!!! That is amazing!! So beautiful!!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Is your submerged and emersed flora list still up to date in the first post? 
Btw, stunning tank!
Sorry if you get asked this a lot, but what happened to your pico betta tanks? Are they dismantled (did you sell them off)? I've gotten really into 2-3g curved glass planted betta picos because of your old photos, have 3 in the living room!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

AquaAurora said:


> Is your submerged and emersed flora list still up to date in the first post?
> Btw, stunning tank!
> Sorry if you get asked this a lot, but what happened to your pico betta tanks? Are they dismantled (did you sell them off)? I've gotten really into 2-3g curved glass planted betta picos because of your old photos, have 3 in the living room!


Still fairly up to date, only difference is some of those listed plants died off, i.e. tonina species. This is because I don't EI (water column) dose, so all the non-root-feeders got culled off so to speak. 

I had no rooms for the 2-3g picos after the move, have 2 old Fluval Specs still in the moving box


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Algae finally stabilizing, carpet is several layers thick, trying to keep up with clippings


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Trimming = pushing stems down with my fist :/


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## radioman (Oct 29, 2007)

Looks amazing!!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Some even growth, finally. Hard to keep a dutch scape look even due to different growth rates!










Emersed:


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Everything is looking really nice. Well done. It is a chore keeping up with trimming stem plants and maintaining a well manicured tank. You have done a nice job with the placement of the plants including the emersed ones.


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## BayazGouramiz (May 13, 2015)

Absolutely stunning!!! 

I wish I had all your knowledge, and the know how to undertake such a huge task. I can barely even figure out how to use aquasoil  My tank has all the right equipment to at least look like a decent dutch style, but its just meh...

You've just made me have a new obsession, and that is figure out how u do those hang on the back things for riparian plants. 

Another thing is I cant believe how the tank exploded with the co2. The transformation was insane. 

I also need to go back through your thread to see what lights those are and where you got them. Thinking about changing to them instead of my Catalina 4 bulb T5HO's. This thread has also increased my willingness to up my lights from 7hrs to 9. Especially since my algae is gone. At least everything but one Belem plant that has green strings on it. Excell doesn't seem to effect it at all. It is right in the outflow of one of the canister filters so that may be the problem since I read that that type of algae likes high flow rates.

I will keep checking this out from time to time, to get ideas, and to see the progress. Nice work man.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

xenxes said:


> Some even growth, finally. Hard to keep a dutch scape look even due to different growth rates!


I feel that!

Fantastic tank - really amazing progress over the last 6 months


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Do you think that one of the lights you use would be overkill for a 20 gallon high?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

ua hua said:


> Everything is looking really nice. Well done. It is a chore keeping up with trimming stem plants and maintaining a well manicured tank. You have done a nice job with the placement of the plants including the emersed ones.





klibs said:


> I feel that!
> 
> Fantastic tank - really amazing progress over the last 6 months


TY  Some plants it feels like I'm working with bonsai, others grow out of the tank from 2" in 1-2 weeks.



wlevine09 said:


> Do you think that one of the lights you use would be overkill for a 20 gallon high?


Not overkill if you do CO2. If no CO2, keep lights med-low and stick to fast growing species to outcompete algae.



BayazGouramiz said:


> Absolutely stunning!!!
> 
> I wish I had all your knowledge, and the know how to undertake such a huge task. I can barely even figure out how to use aquasoil  My tank has all the right equipment to at least look like a decent dutch style, but its just meh...
> 
> ...


I don't think I know that much, more wisdom than knowledge from past failures or something like that? 

Pretty much comes down to two things:

1. light x fert x co2 in balance
2. patience

Hang on the back things are shower caddies with huge suction cups from Target (goto their bath section). CO2 is only 1-2 bps for the 90g, most people go overboard, again slow gradual changes. Also up those lights slowly, do 7.5 one week, 8 the next. I still have GSA especially in the DHG (I think too much organics still). 

I completely boycotted Excel, it killed off a few hundred dollars worth of shrimp again this round, even on 1/2 doses, and not too effective. I'm just learning to live with a little algae, and pick them out manually every other week or so when the volume gets too visible.

P.S. the new lights are still cheap Amazon LED flood lights (50W now instead of the old 30W)


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## Black Hills Hillbilly (Jul 22, 2015)

THAT...IS...BEAUTIFUL!!! I haven't even filled my tank and now I'm looking for space to put another 120-H! Truly inspiring!!!


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## ChalupaBatman (Feb 12, 2015)

Love this scape! Great work.


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## sombrerobanana (Nov 3, 2012)

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you didn't cap the substrate with sand or anything? Just a layer of terra preta, then coco peat, then carbon, then clay?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

No cap, just half decomposed garbage mixed with some nutrient binders (clay + charcoal + peat). It was brown and stunk for a couple weeks. Would strongly recommend dry start before flooding if you want to avoid brown stinking water during start. Overall worth it since I find that no sand cap = carpeting plants carpet a lot better (the HC is 2" thick and growing, keep pushing it down and it keeps bouncing back).


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Mowed the lawn:










Adding some sphagnum moss for a more grown-in emersed back:


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## whitepapagold (Aug 19, 2010)

Tank looks amazing!

But the tank itself... Thats one of the best shaped tanks Ive seen! I LOVE the ADA 60F and yours is like a big longer acrylic version! Oh my! Thats perfect!


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## EdC (Aug 29, 2015)

Gorgeous tank, and it sounds fascinating to watch with the mix of critters you have, and the multitextured habitat you have given them to play in.
Regarding your substrate theory, let's say I am doing the typical Miracle Grow Organic and SafeTSorb mix. When I pre-soak my soil, it should start releasing a ton of nutrients, due to the 50% chicken manure composition, right? So if I throw some charcoal in my soaking tub, and let it all stew for a few days, I should end up with nutrient rich charcoal? I'm not thinking thinking in terms of using the quantities of charcoal you have, since I will also have the SafeTsorb and a bit of sand from my current setup...maybe 5-10% charcoal max. Does this make any sense as something potentially worth trying?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I imagine you would have to let it soak for longer, upwards to a month, for the charcoal to sink. It acts like a nutrient sponge/buffer, soaks up excess, releases after saturation or pulled out by plant roots. Nothing wrong with some experimenting, I wasn't very scientific about my substrate, just mixed what I had.


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## EdC (Aug 29, 2015)

Ahh okay, I hadn't taken the floating charcoal into account. Thanks!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

1 week growth!

9/6/13 -> 9/13/13

















l. red patanal, one of my slowest early growers is now the fastest, go figure


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Wow! Just one week!?


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## HBdirtbag (Jun 15, 2015)

stunning


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Looks like most grow to the top in 3 weeks now.

9/27/15


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Looking great as always. I would really like to see some closer pictures of the emergent section or a few top down shots. I really do love this tank.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

ua hua said:


> Looking great as always. I would really like to see some closer pictures of the emergent section or a few top down shots. I really do love this tank.


TY  Here you go:


















Edit: top down --


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Roots underneath shower caddies, rear left and right:


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Just outstanding!!! More than just beautiful, the tank looks amazingly healthy. Keep up the great work


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Thank you for posting those pictures. It really shows the amount of plant mass that's in your tank. What is the small leaved red plant that is creeping in the first picture?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

pweifan said:


> Just outstanding!!! More than just beautiful, the tank looks amazingly healthy. Keep up the great work


TY I still have a lot of the starter plants you gave me emersed, around the pond, etc. I'm sure you can see them  no work left to do! Just top off with tap water (I don't even add Prime anymore given the plant mass). Also a mowing every 2-3 weeks.



ua hua said:


> Thank you for posting those pictures. It really shows the amount of plant mass that's in your tank. What is the small leaved red plant that is creeping in the first picture?


Lol that is garden variety ludwigia red sp., it normally turns green submersed, but I guess being really close to the light and being just out of the water keeps it very red.

I do love the long roots in the back reaching into the substrate  great detoxification via plants


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

@xenxes When you do your trim, are you topping and replanting or just topping and letting them grow back in bushier however they grow?


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

I've got only four sounds for this tank: Feh. Nom. Eh. Nal.

The only flaw I can find -- and it's a big one -- is that it's not in my house.

Beautiful work there!


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Amazing tank! How are you able to balance CO2 levels high enough to grow out all those nice plants with the needs of your livestock? I have a high tech tank of comparable volume to yours (120g), but I have never been able to keep any inverts alive long term and have struggled with certain fish species due to the CO2. What kind of diffusion method and CO2 usage rate do you use? Also, any ideas as to your PAR values?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I only do 1-2bps, ISTA co2 diffuser (large one). No idea on par values, just adjust one thing very slowly at a time.

Don't think I uploaded these pics yet, kind of shadowy due to high back growth stems, haven't had time to keep up with trimming




































Hair algae pretty much died off. Getting some cyanobacteria -- anyone know why cyanobacteria smells like watermelon??


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## Dr Fishbait (Mar 16, 2013)

I don't know what kind of watermelon you're eating??? When I've had cyno in the past, my wife always fusses about the stench it reeks when I'm cleaning the tank. To me nothing smells like it!! Not a GOOD SMELL!!!


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Wow. 
Considering the substrate, I wonder how well this tank would do without CO2? Probably pretty good I'm guessing.


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## Nexgen (Jul 1, 2015)

anfield said:


> Wow.
> Considering the substrate, I wonder how well this tank would do without CO2? Probably pretty good I'm guessing.


At one time he didn't have co2 on the tank and the growth was much slower and if I remember correctly, the carpet would not grow. Now that the tank is established it may do better without co2, but considering how good the tank is doing now I wouldn't change anything, besides figuring out what is causing the cyno. I'm fighting cyno myself in my 55g, and it will not go away.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Are you dosing at all? I find I start getting cyano when my macros are low.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Dr Fishbait said:


> I don't know what kind of watermelon you're eating??? When I've had cyno in the past, my wife always fusses about the stench it reeks when I'm cleaning the tank. To me nothing smells like it!! Not a GOOD SMELL!!!


Ya man, that stuff is awful.. my wife makes me wash my hands with soap anytime she sees me touch it. It's foul. Tanks look amazing though!


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

If you are dosing, what amount of which ferts are you dosing? This tank is absolutely beautiful!!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Dr Fishbait said:


> I don't know what kind of watermelon you're eating??? When I've had cyno in the past, my wife always fusses about the stench it reeks when I'm cleaning the tank. To me nothing smells like it!! Not a GOOD SMELL!!!


It's like a weird rotten water melon-y smell, that lingers and won't wash off for a day 

What's weird is that it's contained to only one side of the tank, I remove it and it comes back. Cyano's not harmful, its byproduct is oxygen  just makes you hesitant to reach your hands into the tank due to the smell.



anfield said:


> Wow.
> Considering the substrate, I wonder how well this tank would do without CO2? Probably pretty good I'm guessing.


It grows much slower without CO2, the pics on the first page up until the middle are without CO2. Lower CO2 just means lower light cycle and less nutrients. The substrate is nutrient rich and there was some early leeching, but now the water column is clear.



Axelrodi202 said:


> Are you dosing at all? I find I start getting cyano when my macros are low.


Not dosing at all, just feeding some shrimp food every other day. All my plants are adequate root feeders that I haven't needed to dose the water. Growth still seems decent, but might be time to add some osmocote (been 1-year). 

I think the cause of blooms are excess nutrients, or phosphorous-nitrogen imbalance, farm run offs usually end up in cyano blooms. Also low flow, maybe that area is not getting enough flow and I should adjust my output, hmm..



Little Soprano said:


> If you are dosing, what amount of which ferts are you dosing? This tank is absolutely beautiful!!


Osmocote Plus, should really be every 6 months but I tend to forget until someone reminds me, better to underdose than overdose.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

xenxes said:


> Osmocote Plus, should really be every 6 months but I tend to forget until someone reminds me, better to underdose than overdose.


Hmm. Maybe this would be something to try with my 10 gallon. Its in my bedroom so it's annoying to do maintenance on it. And it gets some sunlight despite the light blocking curtain I bought FOR the tank. Could Eco Complete be a decent replacement for the charcoal? I have a lot of it used sitting in a bucket from this tank. 

I do have a compost pile in the backyard as well. All plant matter. Grass, trimmings from the vegetable garden, some hay, dog poo (not barf but they get fed Evo), pumpkins from Halloweens of the past, etc.


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Finally read through the whole thread. Great tank. Just can't help wondering how this would have turned out if you have waited it out without the CO2.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

So my crappy 3x LED flood lights died again (2nd time). The first set lasted ~7-8 months, this second set started failing at 3 month, grrr, not buying this junk anymore.

Experimenting with lighting..

Attempt 1: went to Home Depot and got a cheap $50 T8 fixture with 4x T8 LED bulbs (2 4k 2 5k), ~$100 total... decent brightness but not enough coverage:









Attempt 2: ordered 2x LED connectable fixture strip from Hong Kong, $270, arrived here in 3 days, wow, liking the results so far (blue spectrum is on 25% setting, controller is pretty cool--4seasons, weather, lunar cycle settings, overkill!), the separate red/green/blue bulbs will take some getting used to, but colors do look more distinct:









Rough patch on left is me trying to destroy the cyanobacteria bloom (and tearing out plants with it). Looking at it now I need to thin the HC in the middle, it's like 5inches deep now.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

What brand are LEDs from HongKong? DIYSun or something?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

DSunY yeah, pretty generic, doesn't look like there's a warranty (no CSR support according to Amazon reviews), but heatsink/construction looks pretty solid, hoping it lasts a while and I didn't get another lemon.


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

I hope it works out for you as well! Is it closer to the water surface?


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

:thumbsup: Looking good!


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

xenxes said:


> DSunY yeah, pretty generic, doesn't look like there's a warranty (no CSR support according to Amazon reviews), but heatsink/construction looks pretty solid, hoping it lasts a while and I didn't get another lemon.


I've had the DSunY reef version (same model as yours basically with the fancy controller), on my SW tank since last January, with zero complaints. Has never faltered once.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

pweifan said:


> I hope it works out for you as well! Is it closer to the water surface?


Hanging about where I had the previous flood lights, 8-10" from water surface-ish? Just brighter and better distribution.



Little Soprano said:


> I've had the DSunY reef version (same model as yours basically with the fancy controller), on my SW tank since last January, with zero complaints. Has never faltered once.


Working out for me too now a few weeks in. Plants are pearling A LOT MORE. I'm just using the default "4 seasons" setting, blue/lunar lights goes on at night... lunar effect on plants (http://www.howplantswork.com/2009/0...fect-plants-part-2-moonlight-and-biorhythms/)? Who knows 

PAR on this light is probably a little higher than what I was using before, more higher spectrums from the blues (prior was just ~5-6k).

Cyanobacteria is almost all dead without me doing anything, likely being outcompeted?


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

wow, I just read the whole journal and I love the progression that the tank has made! 
can't believe there might be dog poop in the bottom 

looks great! hope that cyanobacteria goes away! 

subscribed


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

TY 

Day:










Dusk:










Night (overexposed):


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Daylight (more blue) spectrum:










Reds look more purple.

Planning to condense down to fewer species, and replace front with entirely HC.

Feels too hodge podge, less is more?


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Hey Xenxes, how's it been?
Beautiful tank as always!

Any updates as far as growth from the new lighting?
Cool difference the more blue spectrum made on the reds.

Shame those LED floodlights didn't hold up well. Do you know if water/evaporation accumulated in them and caused premature failure (even though they are supposedly water sealed)?
Or what exactly caused them to die? Know if the lights are repairable? 
I found some cheaper ones on eBay of those old floodlights, though most of the cheaper ones require you to splice your own cord/plug onto it. Happen to know what gauge wire?
As far as growth results (disregarding reliability), how did you like the 50W LED floodlights?

Any changes in fauna?
Do your pygmy corys, otos and boraras successfully breed at all?
Any Caridinas in there still?

Sorry if it was mentioned already, but what are your water parameters for the tank?
Sorry for all the questions in advance haha.


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