# New Tank Help



## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

I have just got myself a 350ltr Rena Aqualife 350 tank (120x51x71cm) with a Ehiem Pro II filter & 2xRena smart heaters.

I am running 1 light unit with 2No. 30watt 10000k day white T8 bulbs and 2No. Arcadia Classica ocean moonlight for night. 

All for a tidy sum of £100 so now for the more important stuff.

I am not running CO2 and have a black sand type substra (this tank was 2nd hand and came with so not sure exactly what it is) but it seems to be growing the current plants fine etc at moment. I currently have the daylights on between 5pm & 9pm with the moonlights kicking in at 9pm till 11pm then lights out till next day. 

Now I want to take all the old plants out and do a complete new scape. I am currently trying to find a 3D background to use in tank but because its 71cm it's harder to find one to fit. I will be running two air stones as for some reason I don't seem to be getting enough oxygen into the tank and the fish were swimming to top as if struggling to breath so I added 1 air stone and it seems to impove things but it is an old Whisper that is around 25 years old my parents gave me as a temperary fix. (Any ideas why I would be having problems also appreciated).

Anyways I have found those pre-selected plant collections where you pay for them with a schematic which makes sense to a newbie like me and it says it includes a guide for all the plants and looking after the scape etc but I was wondering if they are worth the money. 

The main one I am interested in is this http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/addtobasket.asp?skid=7895&retp=889&rets=13 The reason other than price for the going with the grow it on collection is that my tank is about 4 times smaller than the suggested tank size so I should be able to plant it similar straight off as plant count is also around 4 times less. Also I will loose a little bit of the tank to the 3D background anyways.

Only problem is it doesn't say what any of the plants are so how can you tell if it is worth it or not and with the price it is I assume I need to find a piece of bogwood that suites the design (not a problem just need to cost for it). 

Anyone got any experiance with these packages or anything I should be aware or need to consider before purchasing. 

For the new Airpump I was looking at something like the Penn Plex Airpod 100 with two air stones. Any other options worth a look at & anyone got any good places to get some airstones or interesting ornimants (wood style or similar) that can hook up too instead?

Thanks for any help.

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Curlyriff said:


> I am currently trying to find a 3D background to use in tank.


Here are some diy 3D backgrounds

As to ordering a package of low lights, I would find out exactly which plants they are sending and check them out. Depending on the cost of shipment might be cheaper to get a package of low lights from someone at this forum. Just check out the swap section.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You really have very low light, probably too low to work. I suspect you are getting only about 10 micromols of PAR, which isn't enough. Does that light fixture have a polished aluminum reflector? A good reflector would double the amount of light you get, making it work, but barely.

The problem is the height of the tank. 71 cm is a very high tank to try to use T8 lights on.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys. I will have a look into DIY 3D backgrounds. 

I am not really wanting to change the current lighting system as it works well and I know I can't retro fit T5's to the unit so T8's are what I am lumberd with. I don't want anything that needs more than low light really as this is my first large tank to work with. 

The lights do have very nicely polished alu reflectors over the lights. This bearing in mind from the actual light to the substrate is actually about 59cm as the lid is tall and I have about 2-3" substrate at moment. 

Don't know if this helps with the lighting or anything but the plants in there are thriving with red & greens and I need to trim them at least once a fortnight. 

I tried to find out what plants where in the set but I can't seem to find any info online. I assume this is so people don't just go out and buy all the plants at a cheaper price seperatly. 

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Baadboy11 (Oct 28, 2009)

with that low light, i'd say select certain species of plants on your own. Maybe something like anubias might be able to survive.


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## Big Dog (Nov 4, 2009)

Why not spray the back of the aquarium with a texture paint. This is one of my tanks I painted.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Curlyriff said:


> I will have a look into DIY 3D backgrounds.
> The plants in there are thriving with red & greens and I need to trim them at least once a fortnight.


By a fortnight do you mean every 2 weeks? Well nothing is written in stone when comes to dealing with nature. If it works don't change it. You'll notice that the tanks with DIY 3D backgrounds don't have many plants. 


Curlyriff said:


> I tried to find out what plants where in the set but I can't seem to find any info online.


They probably don't list the plants so that they can send what ever they have on hand. Why not contact them. I see they have a number and an email on the bottom. Email would give you written confirmation of what they send but they may respond slowly.


Big Dog said:


> Why not spray the back of the aquarium with a texture paint.


My first tank I spray painted the background. I wish I hadn't, for it is difficult to change colors. In fact it is still in storage awaiting stripping. Now I use fabric. The light changes the color of the fabric but it is so easy to change colors for a few dollars.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the help and info. I do like the texture paint. It gives it a different look. Don't suppose you have a full tank pic for me. 

I guess I will not worry too much about the lights and aim for low lighting stuff like anubis & Java Fern Etc. 

I am still undersided on fish and have been looking into Cichlids but that means planting is almost a no apart from Anubis & Java's on big rocks. Maybe that is the way to go anyways since I only have low light. 

I assumed from my understanding of reading about the plant collections is that they are set types of plants that work well in groups to recreate the picture you see as they send out an actuall schematic with dimensions & locations on with all the data needed. 

I was only looking at them as it would be my first tank and I want to get something established but since I am liking the Cichlids so much it means I am limited now anyways.

Any more help or input most appreacited and thanks again to all that have replied so far.

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Curlyriff said:


> I am still undecided on fish and have been looking into Cichlids but that means planting is almost a no apart from Anubis & Java's on big rocks.


Not if you get dwarf cichlids. They need hiding places, though.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Cheers Hilde. Looking at the fish I am still a little torn. The species I have been looking at are Aulonocara baenschi & Electric Blue Haps as they seem to have great colours, good size and apart from eating plants & being a little messy look about what I would want.

I don't know enough about what would be classed as Dwarf Cichlids so any ideas on which ones particular would be a help so I can have a look around to see. 

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Here you you read more about cichlid's. They prefer soft water. The Apistogramma are a little hardier than the others. I have a pair in a tank with ph of 7.4. My tap water is not best for Apistogramma but I had traded plants for them, so decided to give them a try.

Best to find out the water parameters (gh, kh, ph) and buy fish accordingly.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the link and info. Unfortunatly this would mean that I would not really be suited as my PH is around 7.8-8.0 from tap and I am not wanting to try and condition the PH to suit the fish and will have to buy the fish around it.

It appears even the Kribensis cichlids which tolarate allot more will not suit my water parameters which is a shame as they like well planted tanks with bogwood etc which is what I wanted to do aquascape wise. I think I am going to have to give either way between the fish I want and the scape I want as they do not seem compatible unfortunatly.

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Curlyriff said:


> Thanks for the link and info. Unfortunatly this would mean that I would not really be suited as my PH is around 7.8-8.0 from tap.


Oh forgot, to get an accurate reading of ph you have to let the water sit for 24hr. My tap has ph of 8.4. Tank has ph of 7.4.

Since most fish are raised in captivity this doesn't always hold true. Sometimes it just affects their breeding. For example Apistogramma reds are doing okay with ph 7.4. Apistogramma gold didn't live. The golds are genetically engineered, thus not as hardy as the reds. Check out what the local pet stores have. 

With a noisy toddler around I would be worried that he would pull on the tubes to the Co2. There are many low tech tanks without Co2.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the help. I have tested my tank water and it has stayed around the 7.8PH level after both 24 hours & 48 hour mark from water change and I tested 3 times at each stage to make sure I got an accurate result. 

I am going out today to lok at different plants & fish and picking up a powerhead to increase my flow hopefully as I think I am around 4x and have been recommend to get it between 10x & 20x. 

I may also pick up some stuff to start aquascaping but this will have to been done slowly as I have the old fish in there from previous owner and the like so I can't just rip it all out and start again not to mention the cost of starting from scratch. 

Hopefully I will be able to use some the plants & bogwood from my current scape but we shall see.

I thinkt the main reason I am not looking at CO2 is cost and use of as I am looking at my first big tank I would like to try and see how things go for a couple of months. Plus from reading and my understanging most low light plants are not as hungry for CO2 compared to the high light plants. 

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Curlyriff said:


> I am going out today to look at different plants & fish and picking up a powerhead to increase my flow hopefully as I think I am around 4x and have been recommend to get it between 10x & 20x.


Here read that it should be 4x. Do you have the 2126 or 2128? On my 29G I have an Eheim Ecco filter that is 4x (106gph) Many have a stronger filter. I got this so I could also use it on a 10G. I emailed lauraleellbp about this for she has a big tank and is very experienced. Also I found that the powerhead raised the temp 5 degrees in my 29G. 

Another way to cost expenses is to do the El Natural method. Just don't use the crushed coral, for it will raise the ph. You can skip that or add sphagnum moss, which has boiled. I use Scotts top and Lowe's pool filter sand. Cost approx. $5. 

Beware the pet stores sometimes sell plants that are for terrariums, mongo grass, as aquarium plants. Also the plants they sell that are in tubes don't always adjust to water well.

I found the specs of your tank at another forum, 120x51x71cm, and am amazed that your are growing anything with that light. You must be getting some natural light. When using T8s over my 29G I had to use 3 and it is only 46cm high.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the links. Interesting read. It is the 2028 without the heater. I am running two 300watt Rena smart heaters one is plugged to the intake and one to the outlet which keeps the temp nice and constant.

I am now also running a small pump which is actually made for ponds. It works really well and was £15. It is rated for 550lph is about 2"x3" with an enclosed motor case that is submerged so works like a power head but I have attached a spray bar to the end. This has added allot of water movement to the top and is adjustable on the little pump. 

It is just as quite as a power head and once I have the 3D background sorted will be hidden along with the heaters and inlet/outlet pipes. I have also invested in a twin outlet air pump with two air stone bars. 1 is 12" long and the other 6" long and this gives a nice effect while helping the water to get some more oxygen in the tank.

I didn't end up getting any plants over the weekend as my LFS suggested to see how things go over the next month or so to make sure all is OK with the set-up and also so I can tell what I have room for with the background in place.

I guess I have been lucky plants wise as I am north facing and get no direct sunlight into my flat plus being in England am unlikely to see much anyways. 

As I think I also said before by the time you get the substrate in and the actual light fixture height it is closer to 60cm 

At moment I can't see anyway to fit some T5's into the tank with the standard light arms. I could buy a new set of lights like arcadia or D-D series but I don't know what will fit straight of or how it works to sit in the slide rails my tank has. 

I am changing my brace bars as at the moment they are big 8" wide sheets of glass that are not allowing very good space at all. I measured up and can fit some of the standard Juwel brace bars in that they use on there Rio 300/400 tanks which are 350 & 450 litres and are only about 2" wide so I am hoping I could use them instead, although they are not clear I am loosing too much space in the top for being able to gain access to the tank. 

I still need to do some more reading and that but thanks for the help so far. If I went for the D-D lighting unit what type of bulbs am I looking for other than them being T5. Also they make different rated ones from 28watt to 80watt. 

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Are you going to be injecting Co2, for read you found a tank that could be used for that?

Got a link to the light system?

Seems best to get the 3D background done. Then you'll see how much area needs to be lit.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

I am not wanting to use CO2 and I am only looking for just above low light really. I know that my background will sit about 50mm from the back of the tank so that leaves me with around 120x60x45cm to light in volume. 

I am not sure what to go for at the moment or what is needed. I am only going to change 1 light unit for a new T5 unit and keep the other original as a moonlight. 

heres the link for the lights that someone else suggested to another Rena 350 owner: http://www.paraquatics.co.uk/en-gb/dept_22.html

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Just been looking through all the plant stuff again and stumbled across this http://www.plantsalive.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=48 which tells you what the plants are and the quantity. 

It says its for a 48" set up and at £18.95 can't be that bad to try but there are allot of plants there and I don't know anything about them.

What type of lighting would I need. Do I need to run CO2 for this pack to work. Is there anything that shouldn't be there. With it being 122 plants I thought I would have enough to not worry if a few die off but want to give them the best chance possible. 

Also they do a bigger collection for £5 more which has another 80 plants in which are a selection of the list for the 48" collection.

Any input to choice would be welcome. I am also porbably getting the light that I linked to previous but don't know which wattage I should go for. If I go for higher lighting I understand that this is where CO2 comes into play and would appreciate any advise about them should I need to get one to have all the plants in.

How do you know you have the right amount of CO2 because fish in the tank etc. 

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

That is a ton of plants. From the info i have gathered on this site co2 is needed depending on your lights. The more lights, the more co2. Some of those plants need mid-light, which in turn means your going to need some form of co2. You could use a pressurized system, diy, or Excel, but most likely for good growth you are going to need co2.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Cheers for the input. Based on my tank size, depth etc and rthe requirements for the lighting I would be looking at the D-D razor 54w twin then? which I think gives me around 2wpg/ Can anyone confirm. I don't know how to take height into the equation or how T5 works for wpg. 

On another note then for a proper system that is esy to use, good quality and works to give the correct amount of CO2 what would I be looking at? 

The plants cost £19 the lighting costs around £170 a unit and I am guessing a decent CO2 unit must be around the £200 mark.

All in all that means I am spending amost £400 to have a planted tank. 

Any input or help appreciated. I thnk my current lighting is around the 0.6wpg but I am going ot add another white bulb in (already own) and that would give me almost 1wpg approx I think.

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Curlyriff said:


> Just been looking through all the plant stuff again and stumbled across this http://www.plantsalive.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=48 which tells you what the plants are and the quantity.


You have 120x45x60cm is that LxWxH? If so I see it listed as 110G extra high.
Don't need salvinia, for it will cut the light down. 

These plants will need Co2 injected:  
Rotalla Macrandra
Mayaca Fluritalis
Cabomba Caroliana  
Ludwigian Natans
Ludwigia Mullerii  
Twisted Vallisneria  
Cryptocoryne Ciliata
Echinodorus Latifolious
Hydrilla Verticilata
Ludwigian Natans  

Sounds like you have money to burn. For tanks I have seen that use diy 3D background don't have a lot of plants.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Hilde said:


> You have 120x45x60cm is that LxWxH? If so I see it listed as 110G extra high.
> Don't need salvinia, for it will cut the light down.
> 
> These plants will need Co2 injected:
> ...


Yep it would be that size but when working out the internal amount of water and depth I have 118x48x60cm (LxWxH) which to my calculations works out 90gallons (US) and 340 ltr's

If any are floaters I wont use them. I may try and speak to them and see if I could get something else instead with the pack. That's about half the list of plants that require CO2 so either I get the CO2 unit as well or I try and find different plants. 

I want the 3D background cause I don't like the look of the plain backgrounds. Also I don't want to overplant to not see it at all but will be better for the fish I think as they have more hidding places etc. Also I can hide all the pipes etc behind the background. 

I am mainly wanting swords and Anubias and others as such and allot of the plants will be attached to large pieces of bogwood. 

I haven't got money to burn but want to do this properly and it seems that's what things cost when I have looked around. 

It depends on the wattage of light I need and the amount of CO2 for the plants. 

I have worked out that it is 66 plants that would not require the CO2 based on what you have said. 

This might be enough in itself to see how it goes. Is there any that are border line if they need CO2 and if so which ones. 

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Curlyriff said:


> I want the 3D background cause I don't like the look of the plain backgrounds.
> It depends on the wattage of light I need and the amount of CO2 for the plants.


Well, when making a 3D background you can't be 100% certain about the out come of the width. So make the 3D background first. I will take time and during the time you can keep an eye out on plants in the swap section. You might also google for forums and associations in the United Kingdom.

Another source for how to cure it is at fishbreath's thread


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks again you have been most helpfull with the input. 

I will make sure to take my time. I just need to see how things go I guess.
Once I get started with things I will update the post with the background in. I am still not sure on weather a DIY or pre built one will be best as I live in a Flat with not allot of space for that sort of build. 

The one that fishbreath has done does look really good and may be more to what I think would work. I could attach my Anubis & Java plants to all the different levels then. 

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

I have been using excel for my source of co2 and it has been a big help. Also according to other post on this site, by people much more experienced then me, you can throw the whole WPG out the window. I'm still not 100% on the topic so ask some questions in the lighting section.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the input. I am currently using Seacham Excel to keep the current plants alive although since I have swapped out the two other 10000k bulbs for the blue ones the plants are not looking as good now so am going to put the other bulbs back in and hopefull this will help. Should give me around the 1.2wpg rating.

And although I think you are right about the wpg rule and what people think. I think allot of people are talking about the T5 and wpg rating but at the same time some people say to take twice as much lighting for the rating when using T5's compared to T8's and T12's and that T8's & T12's are pretty similar in actual plant light. 

But again this is what I have just read across a few forums and hopefully just gives an idea and then swapping to different bulb types obviously makes a difference too otherwise people wouldn't use certian bulbs for plant growth but that is when the equation changes and how to work out what you are really getting for light source. 

I also read that the actual depth makes a big difference if you think about how deep the water is that the light penertrates and that of what you would typically get for tropical fish from sunlight is about 10x what we would ever produce for our tanks because of algea and obviously because of the larger water mass in nature means that this is how things grow so well and are sustained so it is a real balance to get things to work as nature does. 

I am still below the recommend 10x water flow that people suggest at around 6x with the filter and the pond pump/spray bar system but I cannot justify the power head. Some people are even suggesting that we should aim for anything between 15x and 30x flow which seems really high as I know my tank has no dead spots for the water at moment at 6x flow which is what I thought the flow rate was about, to minimise the dead spots so that nutrients can get to all the plants etc.

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Curlyriff said:


> I am still below the recommend 10x water flow that people suggest at around 6x with the filter and the pond pump/spray bar system but I cannot justify the power head. Some people are even suggesting that we should aim for anything between 15x and 30x



I don't understand this either. For I got an Eheim Ecco rated for a 35g that has flow rate 106gph for my 29G. From responses from others here I thought it would be a bit low but I needed something that I could also use on a 10 G. It may not clean the floor as well as one stronger would but I like it.


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## Curlyriff (Sep 7, 2010)

Cheers,

Not just me then. My flow from my filter is around 75% what they state is 277gph which works out at 207gph plus my pond pump is putting out 125gph so thats 332gph based on about 90g tank that is only 3.7 x flow so actually working the exact flow rate I am way below the recommend.

Although as said I don't seem to have much dead spots as the spray bar is at the top with the airpump too which seems to distill the water well along allot of the tank. 

And then the filter is placed closer to the bottom for flow to circulate. The guy before me had the plants growing better than I do with just the filter which back then was only working around 40% flow and I am suprised he got anything to grow. 

I have switch back to 3 x 10000k 30watt day white bulbs with 1 blue one at moment as the other doesn't work and am upping the amount of time they are on from 8 hours to 12 hours to see if this helps plant growth as the plants over the last week or so since I have had the tank are not doing as well.

I put this down to moving the tank. Re-routing the plants etc plus they sat in a bucket for about 6 hours with a little bit of water and the other guy didn't take too much care removing them before we got there. 

I am going out today to get a large piece of bogwood and some Anubias & Java ferns to go in the tank and will hopefully improve the things look wise. 

I was also thinking about adding some more substrate as it could do with being an inch deeper anyways it may help plant growth as the tank is originally about 6 years old anyways. 

Any input on what I am wanting to do and what might help. Do I really need to increase my flow? 

Kind Regards,

Adam


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