# Sage Advice for Noobie Shrimp Keepers



## mordalphus

Nice post


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## acitydweller

well said...


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## pejerrey

This is great clear info, I count youjettisonme as one of my shrimp/aquascaper senseis for sure. 

Check out his shrimp tanks!


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## thechibi

Handy! It's kinda rough when your water is pH 7.8.  An HOB I like because it gives you a basket inside that lets you choose what you put in is the AquaClear.


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## Jadenlea

awesome post. Thanks from a newbie shrimp keeper.


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## CookieM

Cool definitive post about keeping shrimp.

One question though, why Purigen over Carbon? From what I read Carbon does a lot more than Purigen.


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## Soothing Shrimp

Good read!


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## youjettisonme

CookieM said:


> Cool definitive post about keeping shrimp.
> 
> One question though, why Purigen over Carbon? From what I read Carbon does a lot more than Purigen.


I think of Purigen as "the new carbon". It's a similar concept. However, Purigen is suppose to have better qualities than carbon, and it can be regenerated where carbon cannot.


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## Kunsthure

Can I add one thing? Master a neo first. 

-Lisa


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## mordalphus

Carbon lasts a week before its ineffective, purigen lasts months


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## youjettisonme

Kunsthure said:


> Can I add one thing? Master a neo first.
> 
> -Lisa


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## diwu13

youjettisonme said:


> I think of Purigen as "the new carbon". It's a similar concept. However, Purigen is suppose to have better qualities than carbon, and it can be regenerated where carbon cannot.


+1 this is exactly right. As Liam said purigen lasts "forever" as long as you keep regenerating it. Carbon will also begin to leech the absorbed nitrates/nitrates/ammonia back INTO the tank water if not changed often. Whereas purigen turns brown and lets you know to change it.

This is great info, will bookmark to show the noobs


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## pejerrey

Where to get purigen and How to regenerate it? 
I'm interested on trying purigen in the fluval 204 in this pic. How much is safe/needed for 29gallon tank?








Thanks.


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## diwu13

pejerrey said:


> Where to get purigen and How to regenerate it?
> How much is safe/needed for 29gallon tank?
> Thanks.


You can get purigen online (amazon.com, evilbay, kensfish) in varying sizes. I would recommend the 1L version http://www.kensfish.com/product2703.html and then put them into pantyhose pouches. Obviously the pantyhose will need to be changed if you recharge with bleach but pantyhose costs like $.50 each pair haha. You regenerate it with bleach, and then to wash the bleach off you use lots of water and dechlorinator.

You can honestly use as MUCH as you want for a 29G tank. There's really no limit. It's all safe.


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## Loumeer

I use purigen in my RES tank and my upcoming shrimp tank. For 29 gallons you dont need more than 100mL, which comes in a bag that can be bleached and regenerated.

In my RES tank I use 250mL but you need to buy a bag separately. At first I used a regular media bag and filled it with Purigen. This turned out terrible so I would recommend that you buy their bag called "The Bag" which is 180 microns.

I would also recommend that when you buy purigen you buy 2x of whatever you want. This makes it really easy to just swap them out when you clean out the filter and regenerate the other. The extra one needs to be kept moist after use in the fridge or else the purigen balls will crack and break if they dry out. Also, there are some de-chlorinators that will mess with purgen if they have a "slime coating". Stick with Prime and you should be fine.


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## pejerrey

How long does purigen lasts before it needs to be reconditioned? 
How would you exactly treat a used 100ml Baggie? Pure chlorine? 50/50 h20/chloro? Let it sit overnight?
I have searched forums but I can't really find much info.


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## GeToChKn

pejerrey said:


> How long does purigen lasts before it needs to be reconditioned?
> How would you exactly treat a used 100ml Baggie? Pure chlorine? 50/50 h20/chloro? Let it sit overnight?
> I have searched forums but I can't really find much info.


It lasts weeks, months, depends on how much it gets used and how much crap it has to remove from your water. 

To recharge, some bleach, water, let it sit till it's not brown anymore. Rinse with water, let sit in water and dose to hell with prime till it doesn't smell like bleach, rinse again to be sure, put it back in.

Exact amount of bleach, water, etc are on Seachem's site.


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## babydragons

This is great! As a newbie I learned so much in five minutes. It's great that its all collected into one spot. I know I have a few simple things to change in the next week! Thank you!!!


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## Jadenlea

hahaha. You added Pictures Jettison. Nice


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## GEM 35shrimps

Very clear and useful.
When I start my first CRS they are not good information like this.


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## ony

Is this just for more delicate/line bred shrimps or a general guide? I haven't had deaths apart from when adding new shrimp to the tank but I do the same maintenance for the shrimp as I do for my fish.

I only came on here to find out a bit about breeding them and now I feel like a shrimp abuser


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## Soothing Shrimp

To come here to learn shows you want to know more, which makes a responsible person. 

Cherry shrimp are the tanks of the shrimp world and can live through a lot. Although "ideal" set ups are often meant for higher priced shrimp, there's no harm in doing this for lower priced shrimp as well. 

But as stated, lots of people don't spend the big dollars for set-ups on neos like they do cards. In fact, I'm one of the very few that actually bought an RO system just for my neos. LOL It's not required by any means, though.


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## youjettisonme

ony said:


> Is this just for more delicate/line bred shrimps or a general guide? I haven't had deaths apart from when adding new shrimp to the tank but I do the same maintenance for the shrimp as I do for my fish.
> 
> I only came on here to find out a bit about breeding them and now I feel like a shrimp abuser


No way, you're fine. If you are not having deaths, and the shrimp are at least occasionally breeding, then you're great. I have a 90p full of pea puffers, tetras and cherries. I dose EI, pump up the CO2, and only use tap. It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. The thread is geared mostly toward caridinas, but some of the advice may also be used for neos of course since it still applies.


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## Mike Hawk

Very nice, easy to read with a lot of great information. Should be a sticky so anyone looking to get into shrimp has quick access to great info.


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## Kunsthure

Can I add something else? If you're on a budget, don't want to buy fancy substrate, or don't want to deal with RO/DI to get the ideal parameters, try aging and aerating your tap water as mentioned above. It was suggested to me and I found out that my 7.8 pH, 6 GH and 4 KH tap water turns into 6.4 pH, 4 GH and 0-1 KH water when aerated and aged. You may have the ideal parameters for caridina and just don't know it. 

-Lisa


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## pejerrey

All of the shrimp Jedis have slightly different was to do it. But one thing is 100% in common, they all shoot for stable parameters. I think this one was my big lesson. To make sure my set up wouldn't be swinging parameters in any way, and that i was able to be "hands off" for the longest time without having to mess with the tank, did I get that right?

About aging tap water, in most places now days they have a mix of chlorine(evaporates) and chloride(doesn't evaporate), therefore you have to use prime anyways, right?


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## Kunsthure

Yup, I always use Prime. I have confirmed with my DPU that they use chloramine (a mix of ammonia and chlorine) in our water so I have to use it. And I would still use it after aging the water because the ammonia won't dissipate. 

-Lisa


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## youjettisonme

I will add both of the last two posts to the original as they make good points. Aging and aerating tap water can go a long way toward helping your ph and not just removing the nefarious TDS. But, as pejerrey mentions, it won't get out everything. You still need Prime. As long as my RO/DI is still reading zero, I don't need Prime though, a TDS raiser. 

Another good point to make about Prime is that most people overuse it. Just a tiny bit of Prime goes a long, long way. I use 10 drops per 5 gallons in my tap water fish tank, and even that may be too much.


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## Kunsthure

Can you recommend a handheld TDS monitor?

-Lisa


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## GeToChKn

pejerrey said:


> All of the shrimp Jedis have slightly different was to do it. But one thing is 100% in common, they all shoot for stable parameters. I think this one was my big lesson. To make sure my set up wouldn't be swinging parameters in any way, and that i was able to be "hands off" for the longest time without having to mess with the tank, did I get that right?
> 
> About aging tap water, in most places now days they have a mix of chlorine(evaporates) and chloride(doesn't evaporate), therefore you have to use prime anyways, right?


For aging, it does help any gases in the water to off gas. If your tap water is high in CO2, it will off gas and your pH will go up. If you tap water has no CO2, it will absorb CO2 from the atmosphere and the pH will lower and should equalize itself to what your tank roughly is pH wise.


As for your first comment,yup, there are a million different ways to do it. Keeping CRS from 5pH to 7pH, no water changes ever and only top offs vs changing 20% a week, active substrate vs gravel, sponge filters only vs UGF filter hooked up to 3 canister in a row and everything in between. What works for your shrimp, is what works. There are ideal params and they are whatever works.


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## youjettisonme

Kunsthure said:


> Can you recommend a handheld TDS monitor?
> 
> -Lisa


The blue Hanna that I show in the picture is a stellar, accurate unit. It will also properly measure your PH and temperature as well. It wasn't until I started using the temperature feature on this unit that I realized that many of my thermometers were actually wrong. 

It generally comes with calibration solutions which allow you to keep it fine tuned.


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## dreamechoes

Thank you for this. I just have two Amano Shrimp right now but I love them.  This was a very helpful post. Again, thank you.


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## Kunsthure

How about a budget-friendly handheld meter?  I've seen some with great reviews on Amazon. I never really thought about TDS as being important to FW; I always associated it with SW. Is it really a huge deal to have it under 200 if you're not keeping something difficult like BKK?

-Lisa


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## youjettisonme

Kunsthure said:


> How about a budget-friendly handheld meter?  I've seen some with great reviews on Amazon. I never really thought about TDS as being important to FW; I always associated it with SW. Is it really a huge deal to have it under 200 if you're not keeping something difficult like BKK?
> 
> -Lisa


 From the front page: "I personally know someone who has very successfully bred CRS in 650 TDS water with a GH of 15 and a ph of 5.6 ph. She uses only tap treated with Prime. How successful? She started with 5 CRS and turned them into 70. As of today, her tank has 11 berried CRS. Why is she so successful while others have failed with "perfect" parameters? It's simple. She "keeps it simple stupid" or KISS."

A lower TDS will give you a better shot at minimizing casualties and increasing breeding. However, it is only a guideline. There are many ways to be successful.

As for the cheaper TDS meters, I obviously haven't used all of them, but several cheaper models I once owned went south on me pretty quickly. I bet there are some good exceptions. Hanna also makes a cheap, TDS only meter. Surprisingly, one of the very best TDS meters I've used is the one that comes with the Zero Water home water filter kit that you can find at any Target. It's worth buying this kit just for the free TDS meter which is stellar.

http://www.target.com/p/Zero-Water-...0950410&CPNG=&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=10950410


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## pejerrey

I was wondering about that Zero kit, I saw it at a client's house. Knowing that you own one, is that enough for me to have that instead of a RO/DI unit? 

I mostly ask this because as I share a place now, seems very difficult to get my housemates to let me install something in the kitchen sink. So I have to buy 2 or 3 refills of DI at the supermarket once a week. Not a biggie tho, but it would be helpful to not be limited by the store hours.

As for the question on TDS meters, do they need to be ATC ( automatic temperature compensation) or this just applies to ph meters?


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## speedie408

Sticky material here Raymond. Very nice writeup!


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## pejerrey

speedie408 said:


> Sticky material here Raymond. Very nice writeup!


+1

Speedie! You should share your website write up for shrimp keeping basics!


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## speedie408

pejerrey said:


> +1
> 
> Speedie! You should share your website write up for shrimp keeping basics!


I actually got permission from Zwei to use his material on my website . Looky here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s.../158739-crystal-red-shrimp-care-breeding.html


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## youjettisonme

pejerrey said:


> I was wondering about that Zero kit, I saw it at a client's house. Knowing that you own one, is that enough for me to have that instead of a RO/DI unit?
> 
> I mostly ask this because as I share a place now, seems very difficult to get my housemates to let me install something in the kitchen sink. So I have to buy 2 or 3 refills of DI at the supermarket once a week. Not a biggie tho, but it would be helpful to not be limited by the store hours.
> 
> As for the question on TDS meters, do they need to be ATC ( automatic temperature compensation) or this just applies to ph meters?


You don't need to actually drill into your water line to make an RO/DI unit work. They make a little adapter that attaches to your faucet that makes it super simple. Also, you can use a Zero Water filter for water changes, for sure, but it takes quite awhile to fill. You can't really just insert the hose into a bucket and come back 80 minutes later.


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## diwu13

Kunsthure said:


> How about a budget-friendly handheld meter?  I've seen some with great reviews on Amazon. I never really thought about TDS as being important to FW; I always associated it with SW. Is it really a huge deal to have it under 200 if you're not keeping something difficult like BKK?
> 
> -Lisa


You can get a good TDS meter on amazon.com for ~$30. Not sure if that's budget-friendly enough for you. But it does come with ATC (automatic temperature control) and ability to be re calibrated.


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## youjettisonme

As you can see, I am trying to make this thread sticky-worthy. I'll keep adding when it comes to me, and of course, keep adding the further great advice that we get from the denizens of our fair shrimp community.


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## madness

The HM TDS-3 was recommended to me. It is around $30 and includes ATC. It was easy and simple to use right out of the box. I can't vouch for how long it keeps working though as I haven't used it but once or twice.


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## youjettisonme

I have updated this thread quite a bit. If anyone else has something they think I should touch on then let me know.


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## Jadenlea

I have something you should add to the original page.. Since it is for newbies. I am sure this is a really stupid question but "Wth is TDS and what does it mean for a tank? and how does testing it guide us?" 

I did google and I see that tds is Total dissolved solids but I couldn't really find much helpful understandable information about what it means to a tank.


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## pejerrey

Jadenlea said:


> I have something you should add to the original page.. Since it is for newbies. I am sure this is a really stupid question but "Wth is TDS and what does it mean for a tank? and how does testing it guide us?"
> 
> I did google and I see that tds is Total dissolved solids but I couldn't really find much helpful understandable information about what it means to a tank.


 I'm a noobie too but I will try my best to answer that as I'm kinda bored right now. Jedis please correct me of I'm wrong.

TDS, total dissolved solids.

Let's say I start with 1 gallon of deionized water, zero TDS.

I need 6dGh for the shrimp to molt right and I will add mosura mineral plus to achieve that. After adding it I measure the water TDS and it's ~120tds. 

Then I decide to add mosura old sea mud to make better conditions. I measure again and then it marks 130tds.

Now I know my "pure" shrimp conditioned water starts at 130tds. Therefore anything above that I can consider unwanted junk. It depends of the keeper what is the comfort zone IMO. Let's say I consider 150tds my top.

When I have reached 150tds I change water to achieve my "pure" conditions. 

Maybe 130tds is ok.

Those 30 ppm left, you don't want them to be ammonia! Lol!

Numbers stated above are fictitious.

Then a TDS meter is a water quality meter.


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## youjettisonme

Jadenlea said:


> I have something you should add to the original page.. Since it is for newbies. I am sure this is a really stupid question but "Wth is TDS and what does it mean for a tank? and how does testing it guide us?"
> 
> I did google and I see that tds is Total dissolved solids but I couldn't really find much helpful understandable information about what it means to a tank.


That's a great question. Thanks for bringing it up. TDS is a measure of the combined content of all inorganic and organic substances contained in a liquid. Truly "pure water" has zero total dissolved solids. If you run your tap water through a good enough filter, you will come up with "pure water", and your TDS meter will read zero total dissolved solids, aka _filterable residue_. This residue is mostly comprised of the most common chemical constituents, calcium, phosphates, nitrates, sodium, potassium and chloride, but it may also contain pesiticides. Chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia and is a widely used drinking water disinfectant in North America, often used as an alternative to chlorine because it is longer lasting and has less of an odor than chlorine. Most of these elements you could do without in a shrimp tank. 

Depending on where you live, the TDS of your tap water may be dramatically different than others you encounter on this forum. That's why, for example, some aquarists in San Francisco don't fret tap water much. We receive our water from Hetch Hetchy, and it's "liquid gold" for planted tanks as has been said. However, others aren't so lucky. For shrimp keeping, how much are you willing to risk it?

Keep in mind that everything adds to your TDS. If you dose Prime, the TDS will rise. If you EI dose, you will see high TDS levels. Decaying plant matter, fish waste, etc., they all raise your TDS, and that's why we have water changes. Using a TDS meter to gauge the quality of your water lets you know when it may be a good time for a change.

Water Hardness:

Soft 0 to 75 parts per million
Moderately Hard 75 to 150 parts per million
Hard 150 to 300 parts per million
Very Hard more than 300 parts per million


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## Jadenlea

Ha..jerry that was way over my head so you are not such a noob. 

jet, yours made sense. Does a TDS meter test for different solids or all of them combined? 

How high is to high? 

I think I would still do water changes the shrimp and fish seem to like it!


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## youjettisonme

Jadenlea said:


> Ha..jerry that was way over my head so you are not such a noob.
> 
> jet, yours made sense. Does a TDS meter test for different solids or all of them combined?
> 
> How high is to high?
> 
> I think I would still do water changes the shrimp and fish seem to like it!


TDS is not only relative but also depends on the species. It has been proven that you can, for example, very successfully breed Grade A CRS in 600+ TDS. However, most CRS keepers shoot for somewhere between 130 and 210. The very popular OEBTs tend to like higher TDS content, 200 to 250, but even that's debatable, and it would be hard to find some kind of empirical study that proved that they stay healthier and breed better in 250 as opposed to 130. 

I don't think many hobbyists have access to the kind of instruments you'd need to measure the actual content of your TDS. However, you can probably research the local tap water in your area for the general breakdown. If you use an RO filter and a remineralizer though, you won't have to guess at all.


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## pejerrey

Jadenlea said:


> Ha..jerry that was way over my head so you are not such a noob.


 Lol! I guess I'm at noobie/nerdie level now! Sorry! 

Edit: 
Maybe if I rephrase it:

You have a bucket of you tap or whatever water you use in your tank. 
Add all you need to condition it. 
Test the TDS, that amount is your clean water. 
Anything above is junk. Your call how much junk you want to allow in the tank.

Better?


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## ShortFin

youjettisonme said:


> I have updated this thread quite a bit. If anyone else has something they think I should touch on then let me know.


This thread is worthy of a sticky. Great job! roud:

Just one note on the Rocks. Sometimes Vinegar is too weak for testing. Some people use Muriatic Acid.

--
If you can elaborate more about Mysterious Deaths then this would turn into a Masterpiece. roud: roud:

These are some of the issues that I've seen brought up on Random Mysterious Deaths:

1) Bacteria infection - diagnose/remedy.
2) Molting issues - low/high gh, lack of mineral, etc.
3) Unstabilized tank - What Parameter will swing from am/pm.
4) Lack of Oxygen content at night. Maybe?
5) Young shrimp or Berried female dying - cause?


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## youjettisonme

Great point Shortfin. I think a little excerpt on RMDS (Random Mysterious Death Syndrome) would be helpfu. I added the questions. I will work more on the answers when I get the chance.


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## pejerrey

I would definitively like to know more about diet.
I have Ada and beni food, and I give them ORGANIC blanch spinach as you told me long time ago. 
Zucchini? Raw? Blanched?
What else can I give them from my edible garden?

I see people using glass dishes, what for? 
How long do I leave the food in there? 24hr?


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## In.a.Box

Great Info, where can i get a TDS and what type is better for the money?


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## youjettisonme

Good questions. Before they go in the sticky, some of the answers are...



pejerrey said:


> I would definitively like to know more about diet.
> I have Ada and beni food, and I give them ORGANIC blanch spinach as you told me long time ago.
> Zucchini? Raw? Blanched?
> What else can I give them from my edible garden?
> 
> They love stinging nettle. Always feed organic. You only need to blanch for a moment. Realistically, they will eat it raw as well. If you cook the food, it may be slightly easier to sink. I use plant weights.
> 
> I see people using glass dishes, what for?
> 
> This keeps the excess food from falling down into the substrate. This will eventually fowl your water quality over time and after too much buildup, you'll end up with poor quality water and extra water changes.
> 
> 
> How long do I leave the food in there? 24hr?
> 
> If you don't have many concerns about an already low TDS that you don't have to perform frequent water changes on, 24 hours is no problem. If TDS is a concern, and leaving the food in for very long matters, only a couple hours is best.


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## youjettisonme

In.a.Box said:


> Great Info, where can i get a TDS and what type is better for the money?


There are a couple recommendations on this thread already. Hanna makes great TDS meters. You can find high-end and low-end Hannas. For a cheap version that works, think about the one you get free inside a Zero Water Filter that you can find at any Target. You are reminding me that it would be nice to have hints on where to buy things right in the original post.


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## pejerrey

Thanks!

Take out the food even with a ball of shrimp feeding on it still? This guys never stop nibbling, I guess. 

Does appetite reflect overall health?

Does feeding affect breeding?

At some point this great guide should be available in PDF to print an easy lil handbook!


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## youjettisonme

pejerrey said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Take out the food even with a ball of shrimp feeding on it still? This guys never stop nibbling, I guess.
> 
> Does appetite reflect overall health?




Yes, but it's nuanced and not black and white. Looking at a shrimp who is just staying still while others feed means little as an isolated incident. Similarly, a ravenous appetite doesn't mean that your shrimp is healthy. They are only indicators. 


> Does feeding affect breeding?


I haven't seen anything definitive about this. It's easy to spend $500 on shrimp food these days, but I bet for the most part this ends up encouraging over-feeding more than it encourages a proper diet. As long as you have algae in your tank, your shrimps aren't likely to starve. You can find yourself with a thriving community of CRS even if you only fed once a week. That said, once every other day seems pretty standard.



> At some point this great guide should be available in PDF to print an easy lil handbook!


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## pejerrey

Im coping and pasting from another thread. I thought that it would be cool to have the common abbreviations for this guys:

Cardinias:

CRS - Crystal red shrimp
CBS - Crystal black shrimp
TB - Taiwan bee?
OEBT - orange eye blue tiger
BTOE - black tiger orange eye
BEBT - black eye black tiger
BKK - black king kong (aka KK?)
WR - wine red
RBT - royal blue tiger
BB - blue bolt
Tibee - Tiger mixed with bee
PRL - pure red line

Neo Cardinias:

RCS - red cherry shrimp
PFR - painted fire red

Others:

CPO - Cambarellus Patzcuarensis sp. orange

Maybe missing some? Some may be wrong?


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## madness

I just want to mention that I love the style/format of this guide.

So many of the shrimp keeping guides are very general ('here are the basics but figure out all of the details by yourself') or very specific ('this is how I do it and how you should do it as well').

There is a very good combination in this thread of both theory (general principles) and practice (specific methods or even equipment/supplies that a reader can feel comfortable just following or copying).


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## youjettisonme

madness said:


> I just want to mention that I love the style/format of this guide.
> 
> So many of the shrimp keeping guides are very general ('here are the basics but figure out all of the details by yourself') or very specific ('this is how I do it and how you should do it as well').
> 
> There is a very good combination in this thread of both theory (general principles) and practice (specific methods or even equipment/supplies that a reader can feel comfortable just following or copying).


Thanks Madness. I think we have something good here. I will continue to improve it.


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## A Hill

I just skimmed it and didn't read all of the replies, but I think something else worth noting is you don't need a dozen filters on your shrimp tank for it to be successful. You only really need one.

If you're overstocking the aquarium and everything sure you have more stuff you're dealing with if you're breeding to sell and mass produce but the most important thing is that the parameters are kept constant and stable, fluctuations create stress and kill shrimp. 

5 filters don't save shrimp's lives.

-Andrew


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## youjettisonme

A Hill said:


> I just skimmed it and didn't read all of the replies, but I think something else worth noting is you don't need a dozen filters on your shrimp tank for it to be successful. You only really need one.
> 
> If you're overstocking the aquarium and everything sure you have more stuff you're dealing with if you're breeding to sell and mass produce but the most important thing is that the parameters are kept constant and stable, fluctuations create stress and kill shrimp.
> 
> 5 filters don't save shrimp's lives.
> 
> -Andrew


I don't think that anyone claimed that. I also don't think you've ever read about deaths secondary to too much filtration. It's also good to note that filters have their shortcomings. If you stack filters, you rid yourself of those shortcomings. Excess filtration tends prevent excess TDS as well which means fewer water changes, which in turn answers to your point...stable water conditions. The more you change your water, the more you have to take care not to destabilize your water.


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## pejerrey

A Hill said:


> I just skimmed it and didn't read all of the replies, but I think something else worth noting is you don't need a dozen filters on your shrimp tank for it to be successful. You only really need one.
> 
> If you're overstocking the aquarium and everything sure you have more stuff you're dealing with if you're breeding to sell and mass produce but the most important thing is that the parameters are kept constant and stable, fluctuations create stress and kill shrimp.
> 
> 5 filters don't save shrimp's lives.
> 
> -Andrew


Yeah man, I've seen those shrimp tanks with one sponge filter, i can see some moss behind the milky water. Lol!



I'm joking, but for newbies like me is better to have room for error and stable parameters which is easier with more filtration. point blank.

And I love crystal clear water in my heavily planted tanks... 

Andrew, I don't think it's wrong to shoot for better water quality for shrimpies, do you? Am a bit paranoid to keep my 600 bucks of shrimp in a tank with just one filter, makes me happy!


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## Kunsthure

pejerrey said:


> I would definitively like to know more about diet.
> I have Ada and beni food, and I give them ORGANIC blanch spinach as you told me long time ago.
> Zucchini? Raw? Blanched?
> What else can I give them from my edible garden?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176519. I was wondering the same thing so I made a thread. Lima beans, peas and corn are huge hits but zucchini isn't amongst my RCS. I don't take the time or make the effort to blanch food; I throw it in the microwave and zap it 10 seconds at a time until it's hot then I put it in the tank. You have to remove shells for things like peas, corn and lima beans. I cut the green beans in half when I tried them but I think others just chuck it in whole. I need to try spinach. 

-Lisa


----------



## Kunsthure

pejerrey said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Take out the food even with a ball of shrimp feeding on it still?


I've read that you should take it out after 2-3 hours but I leave the food in over night. I feed around 6pm and take out whatever is left in the morning, but there usually isn't any. They were still pigging out on the lima bean pieces when I got up so I just left them a little while longer. 



pejerrey said:


> Does feeding affect breeding?


I think there's a correlation. During the time I was sorta uninterested in my tanks and maybe fed the fish, and therefore shrimp, every other day, I had NO berried females in a tank that previously had a thriving population of RCS. After I moved all the shrimp to my 13g and started feeding them specifically, there has been a huge increase in the number of saddled and berried females. 

-Lisa


----------



## babydragons

I was wondering if you could explain the rock test. I have some rocks that I found by my job and they looked cool so I just kinda threw them in my tank after I rinsed them well. I'm planning on starting my first shrimp colony and am starting to think this may not have been the beat idea.


----------



## pejerrey

Foods:

Thank you Lisa, very helpful!
I was leaving fresh food for too long, and brand shrimp food for as long as they eat it all. 
This explains in part the one vanishing bees incident where at least 8-9 CRS jumped out I the tank or just never came out. It was also after I moved, therefore some extra stress.
I'm getting a couple of nice feeding dishes from member H4N. He has nice plants too.

-------

Plants:

There is concern from my part when I get plants, I have heard that some thy come from overseas may contain pesticides that will kill our pets.

I also asked at sfbaaps how to sanitize plants before introducing them into the tank. I would hate to end up having planaria or other pests introduced by plants. Thoughts? 


Thanks shrimpsters!


----------



## thechibi

What I do is keep one of those gallon plastic jars. First, I soak them in a mix of tap water and potassium permanganate (I use Jungle's Clear water stuff) for about 30 minutes. The water should juuuuuust be about purple/magenta. 

Then I add prime to neutralize, rinse it and keep the plants soaking for 1-3 days, just to be safe.


----------



## Kunsthure

babydragons said:


> I was wondering if you could explain the rock test. I have some rocks that I found by my job and they looked cool so I just kinda threw them in my tank after I rinsed them well. I'm planning on starting my first shrimp colony and am starting to think this may not have been the beat idea.


You use a dilute acid, many use vinegar and some use muriatic acid, and put a few drops on the rock. If it fizzes, it has calcium in it and may affect your water parameters, and will dissolve over time. If it doesn't fizz, boil it or bake it then it's safe to put in your tank (after it cools, of course )

-Lisa


----------



## pejerrey

Lol! I thought about another question, kinda dumb but I've always wondered.

I rinse my hands very well before sticking them in the tank. I wouldn't touch the water until I mega wash and rinse if I have engine oil or something like that. 

I wash my hands with soap after touching the water. 

I'm assuming this is ok, or should I always use soap before touching the water? I'm afraid of remaining antibacterial soap.


----------



## Kunsthure

Keep in mind I have never kept something picky, but I just stick my hands in the tank, sometimes even with lotion on them, and haven't had a problem. I wouldn't do that with something picky, though. And I usually just rinse off the fish water, no soap, unless I've smashed a snail. I'm sure most people are going to recoil in horror at my poor fish hygiene. 

-Lisa


----------



## blink

Thanks for the thread, there is a ton of good information here.

I'm newish to shrimp and just keeping RCS right now but I've had a couple deaths :icon_redf
One was kind of fuzzy and the other was swollen and black, google didn't really tell me anything but I figured the fuzz was a fungal thing so I did a big water change and kept an eye on things.

Anyhow, this article has given me some work to do, so I'll be working on remedying things one at a time.


----------



## Kunsthure

Swollen, black and fuzzy are three things I've never seen in a shrimp. I've found fish fuzzy after they've been dead and gone undetected but other shrimp would eat the dead shrimp long before it would turn fuzzy like a fish. Maybe someone else can shed some light on what's going on. 

Please take pics and post them if you have anymore swollen, black or fuzzy shrimp. I'm sure everyone is curious to know what they looked like. 

-Lisa


----------



## pejerrey

My nano tank is in the second floor. I can't use any other place for it. This makes it ~78F most of the time sometimes going up to 80+. 

There is still some CRS babies (7) there and one adult. Is there other cardinias that are suitable for such hight temperature?


----------



## dasob85

my room has been consistently 78 these days. a fan helps keep the tank at 74. I do top it off with pure ro daily though


----------



## thechibi

Also: Don't panic. Losing shrimps is scary but making rapid changes doesn't always help. I know. It's hard. I was crying when I lost two of my pumpkins (and neos are like tanks compared to most bee shrimp), but I had to simmer down, test my water, do a water change, test again and watch.

Turns out, adding vigor and shield licked the problem nicely.  No panic needed!


----------



## Kunsthure

pejerrey said:


> Is there other cardinias that are suitable for such hight temperature?


If you have hard water and a high pH you could do Sulawesis like Cardinals, but they are more delicate and pickier than CRS. I have high pH and moderately hard water and failed twice with the caridina cf. propinqua Sunkist Orange shrimp. I'm not willing to try any other Sulawesi...too expensive for little guarantee of success. 

If you want to keep CRS you can buy a chiller. I've never looked into their price so I can't give you a price range. But lots of people use them. 

Why is the temp so high? Are you using some crazy high lighting? Do you not use AC in your house?

-Lisa


----------



## Kunsthure

thechibi said:


> Turns out, adding vigor and shield licked the problem nicely.  No panic needed!


What do those products do, who makes them and who stocks them?

-Lisa


----------



## pejerrey

Kunsthure said:


> What do those products do, who makes them and who stocks them?
> 
> -Lisa


I think they are Borneo wild, not sure. 
Member "H4N" sells it here on TPT, I have dealt with him several times and he is great!


----------



## thechibi

http://www.borneowild.com/prod_v.php?g=2&l=11&c=26&p=215&stxt= - This one is Shield. It helps boost shrimpy immune systems. 

http://www.borneowild.com/prod_v.php?g=2&l=11&c=26&p=162&stxt= - this one is vigor. I started adding it to help after a couple of my neos died after a failed molt. It seemed to help, along with feeding some new foods.

I also would suggest not going overboard with supplements and using one at a time or seeing what works for you.


----------



## Pen3

And stay away from high protein foods like crab cuisine. Once a week is fine but I still see people using it as their staple food and have deaths on crs and tigers.


----------



## Bermyguy

I am also a newbie, I feed them omega one algae wafers, they seem to love this.


----------



## Bananariot

Kunsthure said:


> If you have hard water and a high pH you could do Sulawesis like Cardinals, but they are more delicate and pickier than CRS. I have high pH and moderately hard water and failed twice with the caridina cf. propinqua Sunkist Orange shrimp. I'm not willing to try any other Sulawesi...too expensive for little guarantee of success.
> 
> -Lisa



Propinqua aren't typically what comes to mind when one thinks of Sulawesi, though they are from the region. Mine live fine in 68-74 degree water. Tanks in fact. 

Sulawesi prefer a high temp and pH, you could try Cardinals! Planetinverts.com is a great site for information about them.

What you HAVE to be careful of since they are expensive, is trying to get TANK raised Sulawesi. They are WAAAYYYYY more stable than wild caught.


----------



## pejerrey

Hello again.

I have observed that some days my cards are a bit shy and others they are all out and about, flying and "chasing tails".

Is there a reason for this? What does it mean? Are they trying to communicate with me? Coded message? Lol!



Thanks!


----------



## jkan0228

When I see "tail chasing" as you described it, it means the female has just molted, releasing hormones into the water, making the males I nuts for her. Literally. 

If some are shy, those could be females becoming berried as they like to be in a secure place when becoming berried


----------



## pejerrey

Then it's Tibee time!

In other topic:

I want to dose this tank daily with one or two drops of PPSpro, I'm wondering if it's going to be ok.









It's 29 gallons. Has cards and neos.


----------



## bradlgt21

Very good info. I was having random shrimp deaths and just changes from tahitian moon sand to fluval shrimp stratum. Since the change I have had 0 deaths and 2 pregnant shrimp in a matter of a month. So I think PH can really make a difference which you noted. As well as any metals that might be caught in the sand.

I also just ordered some Purigen and cuprisorb the other day. I plan on using both in the shrimp tank just to be sure if it was copper killing them I get it all out and can't get it back in from my pipes in the house. 

Great write up, wish I read this about a year ago, I might have made the changes I just did sooner.


----------



## Pen3

i love those benibachi kidney stones. i just ordered 10 more for my other tanks.


----------



## youjettisonme

All,

I am glad that this thread is still gaining lots of traction. So many ideas have been presented that I hadn't thought to comment on. I will try to get the best stuff updated in the original post when I have some time.

Thanks,
Jetti


----------



## Bermyguy

Question, my berried shrimp molted, are the baby shrimp lost?


----------



## Bermyguy

I am looking at the tank, I can see the young shrimp. I guess she had them first.


----------



## amarkantis

Very informative! I really appreciate the time you put into this


----------



## MsNemoShrimp

youjettisonme said:


> All,
> 
> I am glad that this thread is still gaining lots of traction. So many ideas have been presented that I hadn't thought to comment on. I will try to get the best stuff updated in the original post when I have some time.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jetti


After reading every single post on this thread I have confirmed with myself what I have done right and where I need to improve. Thank you! I sticky worth post indeed :biggrin: 

I also viewed your BKK planted tank journal and I am in love with the setup!  Had been thinking of redoing my 12G completely for a good couple of weeks now. Sadly its not turning out the way I wanted it to be due random unexpected deaths and random algae spots. Going to make it an OEBT tank now and I want to get a few concerns cleared before I proceed.

1st question is about compatible rocks. I learned it the hard way that no matter how hard I try to clean it initially, how many WC I had to do, *the Seiryu stone is a shrimp killer* :icon_cry:. The vinegar / hydrogen peroxide test, its not really a foolproof right? I tried both on those Seiryu stones I have in my 12G right now and it had no signs of fizzing or anything, yet it increases gH and kH like mad 

*1.) What type of rocks did you use in your 90P to make it PRL and BKK shrimp safe?

2.) If I want to grow fissidens/mini pellia on it, what is the best way to do "no strings attached"? I don't think you used super glue right?*


----------



## Kunsthure

Sbarbee uses super glue on her moss mats. I'd never heard of it before but she makes beautiful mats so I guess it works. 

-Lisa


----------



## madness

NeoShrimp said:


> After reading every single post on this thread I have confirmed with myself what I have done right and where I need to improve. Thank you! I sticky worth post indeed :biggrin:
> 
> I also viewed your BKK planted tank journal and I am in love with the setup!  Had been thinking of redoing my 12G completely for a good couple of weeks now. Sadly its not turning out the way I wanted it to be due random unexpected deaths and random algae spots. Going to make it an OEBT tank now and I want to get a few concerns cleared before I proceed.
> 
> 1st question is about compatible rocks. I learned it the hard way that no matter how hard I try to clean it initially, how many WC I had to do, *the Seiryu stone is a shrimp killer* :icon_cry:. The vinegar / hydrogen peroxide test, its not really a foolproof right? I tried both on those Seiryu stones I have in my 12G right now and it had no signs of fizzing or anything, yet it increases gH and kH like mad
> 
> *1.) What type of rocks did you use in your 90P to make it PRL and BKK shrimp safe?
> 
> 2.) If I want to grow fissidens/mini pellia on it, what is the best way to do "no strings attached"? I don't think you used super glue right?*


You should be able to do the 'paint' method with fissidens (and possibly with mini-pellia).

There was a guide overon APC a while back and Tom Barr discussed the method in a thread here a while back (I think).

Basically you blender up the fissidens and then use a new (clean) paint brush or basting brush to apply the mulched up fissidens to the rock. I think that some people mix in some milk or something to provide nutrients or something but you could probably just mix up some tank water with some ferts in it.

Within a week or two the moss has latched on to the rock. 

This obviously only applies to 'dry start' set-ups though you could probably do a decent 'dry start' for the rocks only in a common container of some sort.

edit: superglue gel (cyanoacrylite gel) works great but it will look ghetto until the moss grows in enough to hide the super glue because the super glue turns white when it sets up. I use this method for attaching all of my moss to driftwood and rocks but I don't care if it is pretty.


----------



## GeToChKn

madness said:


> You should be able to do the 'paint' method with fissidens (and possibly with mini-pellia).
> 
> There was a guide overon APC a while back and Tom Barr discussed the method in a thread here a while back (I think).
> 
> Basically you blender up the fissidens and then use a new (clean) paint brush or basting brush to apply the mulched up fissidens to the rock. I think that some people mix in some milk or something to provide nutrients or something but you could probably just mix up some tank water with some ferts in it.
> 
> Within a week or two the moss has latched on to the rock.
> 
> This obviously only applies to 'dry start' set-ups though you could probably do a decent 'dry start' for the rocks only in a common container of some sort.
> 
> edit: superglue gel (cyanoacrylite gel) works great but it will look ghetto until the moss grows in enough to hide the super glue because the super glue turns white when it sets up. I use this method for attaching all of my moss to driftwood and rocks but I don't care if it is pretty.



Is this the thread you are referring to?

http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/fiss-mini-mountain.6000/


----------



## madness

GeToChKn said:


> Is this the thread you are referring to?
> 
> http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/fiss-mini-mountain.6000/


Here it is:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/82384/one-way-to-attach-mini-fissidens-on-the-rock-or-carpet

Edit: oops

I see the same post in the link that you provided. Someone obviously cuts and pastes the post. Not that that is bad (as long as they have permission).


----------



## youjettisonme

Actually, I am pretty sure that Tom got that from the article about mini-fiss on ASW. In any case, I have been attaching moss this way in dry starts for a long time now and have done it in almost every conceivable way. You don't need to throw it in a blender, a grinder, or anything else. Whether it's mini pellia, fissidens, or almost any other moss, all you need to do is to rip it to shreds by hands and drop or press (depending on your medium).

So it's "rip and drop". You could also chop it up finely with a knife as if you were chopping herbs for a dinner. In most cases, the moss will adhere in as little as 3 to 4 days. Scapers from Asia have been doing this like mad for the last several years. I expect that the IAPLC book that comes out in 2012 will heavily feature scapes that employ this method.


----------



## Kunsthure

What makes doing this dry any better than doing it under water? I've had little success using fishing wire or mesh wrapped around a rock to attach moss to things. I need more moss in my 13g for my shrimp. 

-Lisa


----------



## arktixan

Kunsthure said:


> What makes doing this dry any better than doing it under water? I've had little success using fishing wire or mesh wrapped around a rock to attach moss to things. I need more moss in my 13g for my shrimp.
> 
> -Lisa


I think the main reason why they do it as a dry start first is to allow the moss to attach to the wood/substrate easier.

Moss tends to grow better emersed. Especially when its Damp.

When submerged it grows slower of course... unless you add C02.

I actually enjoy that method, I am really tempted into doing it with my drift wood, and a few rocks I have...

I may, do a PVC tub, use some aquarium glue to sprinkle on substrate, and add moss that way.


----------



## Kunsthure

I have a mystery moss on a rock that I took from my 37g. If I took that out of my tank and did it emmersed, would it attach better than it has? Only a little bit is actually attached but it's a huge mop. 

-Lisa


----------



## arktixan

Kunsthure said:


> I have a mystery moss on a rock that I took from my 37g. If I took that out of my tank and did it emmersed, would it attach better than it has? Only a little bit is actually attached but it's a huge mop.
> 
> -Lisa


I am sure if you followed the method with pulling it off, and grinding it up into small bits an pieces most likely yes it will.

Fully grown, and big an clumpy maybe a little harder to do.

When I do, I need a method of grinding since I don't own a grinder... I may just use a knife an chop into small pieces.


----------



## youjettisonme

A knife works just fine. The grinder is unnecessary.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## pejerrey

I saw this video and I thought that I should share it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8Yz9_j2L-E&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## pejerrey

I have sick ones I guess, they have this white hairy "crown" stuff growing from their heads, I had one death so far from about 3 yellow neos affected by it. When I found the dead one, the whole thorax section was browned like if it was a CBS "SSS" almost. WEIRD, Thoughts?


----------



## shrimpnmoss

http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/260-Vorticella-Parasites-on-Shrimps


----------



## h2oaggie

Just got my first batch of RCS, enjoyed reading this thread and wanted to bump for other newbies.


----------



## pejerrey

This is indeed a great post. I'm thinking tho translate into Spanish.


----------



## pejerrey

Bump for the newbies!

And mods please make this thread a sticky because the current one on CRS keeping is kind of incomplete in comparison. I end up referring people all the time to this thread as the best Rx for their issues and questions.

Thanks.


----------



## youjettisonme

pejerrey said:


> Bump for the newbies!
> 
> And mods please make this thread a sticky because the current one on CRS keeping is kind of incomplete in comparison. I end up referring people all the time to this thread as the best Rx for their issues and questions.
> 
> Thanks.


When I get a chance, I am going to go back through this thread, clean up the original post, and "apply" for official sticky status. It is definitely getting referenced all over the place from what I can tell.


----------



## WallaceGrover

I wish this was stickied sooner, it's a great resource!


----------



## MsNemoShrimp

youjettisonme said:


> I have updated this thread quite a bit. If anyone else has something they think I should touch on then let me know.


I am hoping there is a section where all these questions are answered specifically? :biggrin:

*1) Bacteria infection - How do you diagnose or remedy?
2) Molting issues - Is your GH (general hardness) too low?
3) Unstabilized tank - Does your PH swing dramatically from day to night? How to solve? What about NTS (new tank syndrome)?
4) Lack of Oxygen content. How to address?
5) Young shrimp or Berried female dying. What are the root causes?*


----------



## pejerrey

NeoShrimp said:


> I am hoping there is a section where all these questions are answered specifically? :biggrin:
> 
> *1) Bacteria infection - How do you diagnose or remedy?
> 2) Molting issues - Is your GH (general hardness) too low?
> 3) Unstabilized tank - Does your PH swing dramatically from day to night? How to solve? What about NTS (new tank syndrome)?
> 4) Lack of Oxygen content. How to address?
> 5) Young shrimp or Berried female dying. What are the root causes?*



Maybe, when there is a part of the post that refers to one of those questions, place a lil number like in the bible?


----------



## thechibi

Maybe stuff about pre-filters? I'm eyeing a canister filter and figuring out a spray bar and stuff... it's just a good idea to have them. I lost a few shrimps when the sponge fell off my intake during a power outage, then power came on and I didn't realize.


----------



## youjettisonme

thechibi said:


> Maybe stuff about pre-filters? I'm eyeing a canister filter and figuring out a spray bar and stuff... it's just a good idea to have them. I lost a few shrimps when the sponge fell off my intake during a power outage, then power came on and I didn't realize.


There is a little blip about pre-filters, actually a couple in the original post.


----------



## youjettisonme

NeoShrimp said:


> I am hoping there is a section where all these questions are answered specifically? :biggrin:
> 
> *1) Bacteria infection - How do you diagnose or remedy?
> 
> I think a bacteria infection in inverts should basically be treated like you would treat them in shrimps. It doesn't mean you will save your inverts, but it gives you a fighting chance. I haven't personally read anything definitive on the subject matter, but I yield to anyone's superior knowledge on the subject matter.
> 
> 2) Molting issues - Is your GH (general hardness) too low?
> 
> I could get more specific about this, no doubt. I can't imagine trying to keep any type of invert, neo or caridina, in anything under 4gh. There's just no reason to go any lower. If you hit at least 4? Your molting issue should disappear. It's so simple to test for GH, but it's surprising how many folks still choose not to.
> 
> 3) Unstabilized tank - Does your PH swing dramatically from day to night? How to solve? What about NTS (new tank syndrome)?
> 
> This could also be broken down just a little bit better in the original post. Basically, you should have crazy PH swings unless you are introducing CO2. If you dose CO2 in a neo tank, it really doesn't matter what you do. If you dose CO2 in a caridina tank, I HIGHLY recommend dosing 24/7 and forgoing the timer. This really does stabilize PH in the best possible way, and also keeps the PH just slightly lower (assuming very small bubble count) which caridinas tend to enjoy.
> 
> 4) Lack of Oxygen content. How to address?
> 
> I think I hit this one pretty well in the original post. It's all about water agitation. If you go the route I suggest, and supplement your current filtration with a sponge filter then you never have to worry about oxygenation. If you are going canister only? You take more risks unless you are raising a particular hearty species. But I have to add, with as cheap as it is, why not just go sponge filter? Finally, go HOB for both ease of adding and changing Purigen, and for the added surface agitation if for some reason you are dead set against going sponge.
> 
> 5) Young shrimp or Berried female dying. What are the root causes?*
> 
> Berried and young shrimplets will magnify any deficiencies that you currently have in your shrimp tank unless you are simply dealing with a very weak strain of inverts. If your shrimp from a hearty colony are dying, but you've removed the possibility of the obvious causes - spikes in ammonia or nitrite, not enough water oxygenation, not enough beneficial bacteria, bacteria infection, your GH/KH levels are way off for the particular species, etc. then it's never going to become a simple diagnosis. Sometimes, despite your best intentions, you just made a bad shrimp tank, and it may be no fault of yours.
> 
> No matter what, don't be terrified to rehouse your shrimps, try a new soil, try some different hardscape, rescape, and try again. It beats the hell out of trying to bang the round peg through the square hole for months on end.


BTW, good questions.


----------



## pejerrey

About unstable ph (#3) I found that using a DIY UGF in a buffering soil such as akadama really helps.

I measured ph before doing it day and night, and after installing it, day and night. From swinging 6.8 to 8 to be stable at 6.2-6.5 in a non co2 tank.
The tank I inject co2 24/7 is always 5.5ish.

Some plants root perfectly, some don't.


----------



## sketch804

Great article with lots of fantastic advice!


----------



## meowschwitz

This really needs to be stickied. Really.


----------



## pejerrey

Bump to welcome new shrimpers!


----------



## sunyang730

great post!


----------



## Royal Pleco

I run a yeast/sugar co2 in my planted shrimp tank... I usually turn it off at night.. and turn my air pump on.... Should I just leave my co2 on 24/7 so the parameters stay the same. and don;t bother with an air pump? I should test my ph after 24 hours of co2 being on I guess. and that will let me know if it drops way too low. did I answer my own question? Just want to hear others experiances.


----------



## pejerrey

I've tried yeast before, not with shrimp tho. Didn't like it because it was innaccurate or say unstable.
I will lower the light intensity so you don't need co2 if you can't buy a pressurized system. You can keep the same layout just growing slower pretty much.
People like to use air pumps to run sponge filters. I would use the pump for that and skip the DIY yeast stuff. 
I guess is alright for cherries tho. 

Are you dosing? Dosing is ok as long as is lean IME.


----------



## Royal Pleco

Without co2 my plants start dying, brown on the edges and it's just not good. I know a sponge filter is ideal. I'm coming from a planted 20 gallon long, got rid of all my fish, and made it into a shrimp tank with otos. I have 2 Aquaclear HOB filters that have all the good bacteria allready on living on the bio media. If I have to stick with the yeast/sugar co2., which I do, should I run it 24/7 like a post I read here mentioned, or should I do what I have been doing and turning it off at night and running an air pump with airstone.
I respect your opinnion pejerrey, would just like to hear what others have to say. I have fallen for these shrimp, and want to do the best for them.


----------



## pejerrey

Alright then, I will shut up.


----------



## Royal Pleco

No need to shut up. I hope I didn;t come off as rude. I Just didn't explain my tank fully enough and my situation for someone to help me.


----------



## pejerrey

Well, you kinda hurt my feelings and I cried.. 

Few people keep high grade shrimp in planted tanks, even fewer inject co2... It's taboo. I hope somebody besides me and Jetti (which actually do it) will chime in to help you. I want to see more beautiful shrimp tanks.

Anyways, I want to share this with you:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183530


----------



## Royal Pleco

Very informative writeup. thank you.


----------



## Baher

*Advice needed..*

Hi
Can I put catalpa ovata (because its good for lowering ph)leaves in my snowball shrimp aquarium. My tank ph is around 7.6-7.8.


----------



## pejerrey

IME that is not going to help it much. And won't be stable.

Your waters are perfect for blur tigers and such tho. For what I know stable ph is achieved mostly from substrate.

IMO. It's all about not forcing parameters. Make them stable from the beginning. People try all sorts of things to change their ph, I tried several myself. Like Indian almond leaves, DI water, aging tap... Nothing worked and I Ended up changing substrate for akadama. 

If your tank is small takes about one hr and akadam doesn't leach ammo. So stays cycled. There may be some other options if you don't find akadama.

I hope others can chime in with ideas.


----------



## ShyShrimpDoc

I don't know about the comment regarding not keeping higher end shrimp in planted tanks. I keep all my shrimp in planted tanks. I have tried CO2, it's tricky. One mistake and you kill the whole colony. I did not have the time to get it right, so I bailed on the idea. It may come down to what do you want more, the shrimp or those particular plants.

I have to agree on the substrate comment. Look where your tank trends and pick shrimp accordingly. That having been said, swapping substrate is likely the only way to get your pH where you want it in a stable fashion. Be aware though that different test kit manufacturers can give very different results. I was using API and was wondering why my crystal reds were thriving at 7.8. It's because they were at a pH of 6.7. The kit just read that as 7.8. I have had to play with a few different kits. I am currently using a hagen kit. It seems more accurate. I plan to calibrate one of the labs' pH meters and do an accuracy experiment soon. I just need to figure out who has a meter that will read very soft water well. 

I have started to go for Sulawesi shrimp. For me they are less work. FYI extra rotting biomass can have a fairly profound effect on pH. I used to have an amazon sword that kept rotting off sections of the rootstock and it would bump my pH up pretty high. I got in the habit of trimming its roots and clearing the substrate of orphan rootlets. This helped.


----------



## thechibi

I think it's less about planted tanks and high tech vs. low tech. I intend to buy some ferrum to supplement/replace my excel. I don't use carbon, but I do use a few fertilizers and it seems to do okay. I think the big thing to worry about is the CO2 levels.


----------



## pejerrey

thechibi said:


> I think it's less about planted tanks and high tech vs. low tech. I intend to buy some ferrum to supplement/replace my excel. I don't use carbon, but I do use a few fertilizers and it seems to do okay. I think the big thing to worry about is the CO2 levels.


 There is a few people that are injecting co2 with cardinias and no problems. One of them, the breeder I get my CRS SS from. 

I know Jetti injects 24/7 and has PRLs breeding, I do inject 24/7 and have CRS ss and CBS SSS breeding. Plantbrain has kept/breed several cards with co2 on a timer and ferts too. Ask them! 

I'm currently experimenting with co2 on a timer with the lights, I have a bunch of babies and they are all good.

It's out there, just not very popular because it's taboo.


----------



## pejerrey

thechibi said:


> I think it's less about planted tanks and high tech vs. low tech. I intend to buy some ferrum to supplement/replace my excel. I don't use carbon, but I do use a few fertilizers and it seems to do okay. I think the big thing to worry about is the CO2 levels.


 I think is actually low O2 levels more than high co2 levels. The problem is suffocation. It's easily solved by surface agitation. The more dissolved o2, the less co2 you need to inject because the plants recycle their co2. It's known as photorespiration.

http://new.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_19/issue_6/0912.pdf

Gets more interesting between page 9-15.

There is a few people that are injecting co2 with cardinias and no problems. One of them, the breeder I get my CRS SS from. 

I know Jetti injects 24/7 and has PRLs breeding, I do inject 24/7 and have CRS ss and CBS SSS breeding. Plantbrain has kept/breed several cards with co2 on a timer and ferts too. Ask them! 

I'm currently experimenting with co2 on a timer with the lights, I have a bunch of babies and they are all good.

It's out there, just not very popular because it's taboo.


----------



## pejerrey

This is another good read in the topic of co2 and gassing bugs:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php?t=10282


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## thechibi

Yeah, I'd stay away from it if you're a beginner, personally. It only takes one slip-up or equipment failure to gas your shrimp.  It's much more forgiving to start slow and work up.


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## ShyShrimpDoc

The thing is that the surface agitation from my understanding is prohibitive for using CO2 as a manner of controlling pH. Which is why some individuals use it. It is my understanding that using CO2 on a timer with a nighttime air stone works very well. I have been told that a lot of Japanese breeders do this. 

The units that are linked to a pH meter and auto adjust injection are the least maintenance. Which is what I had. The guy who sold it to me took it out of his tank after he gassed over 100 gallons worth of fish in a pH swing from introducing something to the tank (I don't recall what).


----------



## youjettisonme

ShyShrimpDoc said:


> The thing is that the surface agitation from my understanding is prohibitive for using CO2 as a manner of controlling pH. Which is why some individuals use it. It is my understanding that using CO2 on a timer with a nighttime air stone works very well. I have been told that a lot of Japanese breeders do this.
> 
> The units that are linked to a pH meter and auto adjust injection are the least maintenance. Which is what I had. The guy who sold it to me took it out of his tank after he gassed over 100 gallons worth of fish in a pH swing from introducing something to the tank (I don't recall what).


When you're talking about an invert tank, CO2 is generally prohibitive toward generating a dynamic breeding population with caridinas. No doubt, if you're aim is to simply make a terrific scape, and the flora is your most important element, creating excess daytime surface agitation become pointless. 

However, keeping a sponge filter and a very small amount of CO2 running 24/7 actually does keep the PH in check quite well and contributes, although minimally by comparison, to keeping your plants healthy, depending on your plants of course. Better still, the proliferation of your caridinas will be very minimally affected.


----------



## pejerrey

And for the small amount of co2 we use with shrimp a ph controller won't really be worth the effort. 24/7 is way easier, cheaper and more stable.


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## Rainer

Is there a minimum level of TDS for filter feeding shrimp - a level where hand feeding with a baster isn't necessarily required? 

Would Green Lace conditions work with OEBT?


----------



## dunehole

This is a great thread, thank you for all of the information. But I do still have a question. I have looked through many posts, but I have not had any luck finding a simple breakdown of what the ideal conditions for Cardinia are.. Specifically CRS..

What would the ideal *ranges* be?

Ph ?
Gh ?
Kh ?
TDS ?
Temp ?
Any thing else I may have forgotten.


----------



## james1542

The thing that scares me most about CO2 is the pH swing. Its not too hard to off gas CO2 at night, but when you have very soft water for cardinias, and you saturate the water in the day time with CO2 and strip it at night, the rapid pH fluxations have to be hard on any life form.

I think a greater emphasis needs to be removing solid waste from the tank- as over time it builds up, and if disturbed I think can be a common killer of shrimp. I was finding shrimp would die after I did small 7% water changes. I was using a tiny custom siphon and maybe cleaning 5% of the substrate, so I just focused on the area where I fed them, as I didn't want to pull up all my plants anyway. So of course I started blaming the water, but it was remineralized RO. So I blamed the minerals, tried using more tap, keeps happening and so I blame the tap water. I got fed up, got out the jumbo siphon and pulled a 30% wc out of the fluval stratum-no body died every bodys happy. What I think was happening, is I was rescaping a few plants during the cleaning, and stirring up solids in the process, which were probably loaded with Nitrates the shirmp hit with the cloud, get burned and days later die. Immediately after cleaning the shirmp start erratically swimming, looking agitated, twitching their pleopeds, then slowly they die, which if not found snowballs the problem.


----------



## pejerrey

dunehole said:


> This is a great thread, thank you for all of the information. But I do still have a question. I have looked through many posts, but I have not had any luck finding a simple breakdown of what the ideal conditions for Cardinia are.. Specifically CRS..
> 
> What would the ideal *ranges* be?
> 
> Ph ?
> Gh ?
> Kh ?
> TDS ?
> Temp ?
> Any thing else I may have forgotten.


Did you really read the first post?


Ph ? Between 5.5-6.5
Gh ? Above 4, usually 6+
Kh ? 0-1, there is exceptions.
TDS ? Unknown, match your breeder water
Temp ? ~65-75 (72F) but there is exemptions.

What really matters is STABLE.


----------



## pejerrey

james1542 said:


> The thing that scares me most about CO2 is the pH swing. Its not too hard to off gas CO2 at night, but when you have very soft water for cardinias, and you saturate the water in the day time with CO2 and strip it at night, the rapid pH fluxations have to be hard on any life form.
> 
> I think a greater emphasis needs to be removing solid waste from the tank- as over time it builds up, and if disturbed I think can be a common killer of shrimp. I was finding shrimp would die after I did small 7% water changes. I was using a tiny custom siphon and maybe cleaning 5% of the substrate, so I just focused on the area where I fed them, as I didn't want to pull up all my plants anyway. So of course I started blaming the water, but it was remineralized RO. So I blamed the minerals, tried using more tap, keeps happening and so I blame the tap water. I got fed up, got out the jumbo siphon and pulled a 30% wc out of the fluval stratum-no body died every bodys happy. What I think was happening, is I was rescaping a few plants during the cleaning, and stirring up solids in the process, which were probably loaded with Nitrates the shirmp hit with the cloud, get burned and days later die. Immediately after cleaning the shirmp start erratically swimming, looking agitated, twitching their pleopeds, then slowly they die, which if not found snowballs the problem.


There is people keeping cardinias in very high levels of nitrate(no3). So I doubt it was no3. Unless a very sudden spike??...Maybe ammonia, nitrite(no2) which we know are poison or just a high levels of total dissolved solids as a result of disturbing the soil? 

It's difficult to know... There is people keeping them in more than 400 TDS no problem. 
Maybe temperature? Who knows...


----------



## dunehole

pejerrey said:


> Did you really read the first post?



Yep, several times... (did you?:wink The article says that stability is ultimately more important than keeping the perfect parameters, it does not however state what the perfect parameters are. The most specific number I see is, do a WC when your TDS gets into the neighborhood of 200. It does not specify what an ideal TDS would be. The article states how to lower your Ph, it does not say what an ideal Ph would be.. Same goes for Kh and Gh. I am just looking for a range, so that at a glance one can see if something is off or not, or how close to ideal things are.


----------



## deleted_user_17

Hi Dunehole

Hopefully this link has the ranges you are looking for > Shrimp Keeping


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## Rainer

Jedi_Pizza said:


> Hi Dunehole
> 
> Hopefully this link has the ranges you are looking for > Shrimp Keeping


If that's correct, it's no wonder those poor bamboo shrimp didn't survive the water here. 

Are green lace shrimp similar? I've seen one site that indicates they're better adapted to alkaline environments.


----------



## james1542

pejerrey said:


> There is people keeping cardinias in very high levels of nitrate(no3). So I doubt it was no3. Unless a very sudden spike??...Maybe ammonia, nitrite(no2) which we know are poison or just a high levels of total dissolved solids as a result of disturbing the soil?
> 
> It's difficult to know... There is people keeping them in more than 400 TDS no problem.
> Maybe temperature? Who knows...


My temps max out at 76. I have a halide, so yes it's hot, but it's an open top tank. I have a solar powered fan I could stick on there if I really get worried. It could just as easily be ammonia, or NO2, I don't know but whatever it is, seems like it's kicking up during and after re-scaping. At least that is the case for a dirty mature tank (1 year)


----------



## TheFoleys

Thanks for the time you put into this post


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## dunehole

Jedi_Pizza said:


> Hi Dunehole
> 
> Hopefully this link has the ranges you are looking for > Shrimp Keeping



Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## ejdog

thanks
now i understand more

one question, by the "never too much filtration",
is it mean you can have a bigger canister to hold more media? or just more filters which is rate for the tanks size only?

like in 10 gallon tank, 
A. i can have 2 or more canister which rated for 10 gallon tank.
B. i can have a bigger canister which rated for 100 gallon tank.
which answer is correct?

thank you very much in advance


----------



## pejerrey

IMO (and I know Jetti is on the same page as I learned this from him):

A: yes you can have 2 canisters but is way better to have one canister and one hob. And as big as you want but make sure you regulate the flow properly so it's not like a washing machine. 
Having 2 filters is good because you can service one while the other one is running. Staggered maintenance.
The hob is cool because you can place purigen or carbon in it easier than in the canister and replace it often as needed.
Also you can plant the HOB and use the emersed plants as another nitrogen compound extractor. 









I bought this set up from Jetti months ago and I added the HOB, swapped the substrate for akadama drl and rescaped. It had an eheim 2213 running an undergravel filter too. 









B: you can have 2 canisters like I have in this other set up:

















It works but I wish I had something similar (one of each) to the first set up I posted.


----------



## ejdog

thanks, Pejerrey.

in addition, in 10 gallon tank, how much bio-media in the filtration is enough?
any good if i put a sump underneath which may/can hold 10 gallon of bio-media?
will that made the filtration better?

thanks


----------



## pejerrey

ejdog said:


> thanks, Pejerrey.
> 
> in addition, in 10 gallon tank, how much bio-media in the filtration is enough?
> any good if i put a sump underneath which may/can hold 10 gallon of bio-media?
> will that made the filtration better?
> 
> thanks


 Man, there is people keeping and breeding shrimp in ten gallon tanks with one sponge filter and a couple of moss balls.

What is enough? Depends of the point of view. 

However, Jetti is advocate of over filtration as well as myself so I would shoot for the best instead of enough. 
I know neither of us would cheap out on that factor.


Is this going to be a planted tank or just a shrimp tank?

Do you want to be changing water often?

Tell me a lil bit more about what do you want to do with it. I'm curious.


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## hedge_fund

bump


----------



## andygold

How about some info on tankmates...and salt

I am considering setting up a shrimp/invert-only tank. I'd like to incorporate some other inverts into the tank if that is advisable. I'm not looking for a planted tank. I'm also looking to do things as easy as possible (if that's possible) 

I currently have a guppy tank that has some nerite snails, trumpet snails (not MTS), and a red Clawed Crab (Perisesarma Bidens). The Nerites can go from marine to brackish or even FW. The crab likes some salt in her water, and the snails, I'm not sure (I do know they hate a PH of around 6.0), as when it's at that level, they stay closed up and don't go under the substrate during the day, like they should.

Are any/all of those mentioned compatible with shrimp? 

I see nothing mentioned about salinity when people mention any of the shrimp species referenced earlier in this thread. Are they all totally FW varieties, or do they like a little salt in their water? If so, what specific gravity reading?

I ask, as I have a water softener at home that is plumbed into the whole house including outdoor spigots. The water is typically between 8.0 & 8.5 PH, and 8-15ppm TDS. I'm "guessing" the solids are mostly salt, but that's just a guess. It's too soft for Applesnails (eroding shells), and due to its low mineral content, it has no buffering ability and I get very low PH (6.0 or lower) in the tank in a day or two, down from a PH of 8.0

So, what's the story on some salt, and inter-species companionship?


----------



## crustybarnacal

Thanks for putting this info together,very valuable to me,just starting to dabble in shrimp.


----------



## laqu

QUESTIONS:

plant in a HOB... INFO...!!!! 

i have TINY (8x8x8) nanos and keeping them 'steady' and clean... i'd love ideas... i have a palm filter turned all the way down PLUS baffled! 
..
in my "HUGE" six gallon (stop laughing) tank my canister is blowing my plants around (i have a bar) but i know there are 'dead' spots due to plants ... but i need a way to slow down my canister first.


----------



## pejerrey

laqu said:


> QUESTIONS:
> 
> plant in a HOB... INFO...!!!!
> 
> i have TINY (8x8x8) nanos and keeping them 'steady' and clean... i'd love ideas... i have a palm filter turned all the way down PLUS baffled!
> ..
> in my "HUGE" six gallon (stop laughing) tank my canister is blowing my plants around (i have a bar) but i know there are 'dead' spots due to plants ... but i need a way to slow down my canister first.


Planted HOB in an betta 8x8x8 cube:









Planted HOB in a 6 gallon shrimptank:

















Search "planted hob thread"


----------



## Betta Maniac

laqu said:


> but i need a way to slow down my canister first.


Sometimes just turning the spray bar around so it blows at the glass is enough.


----------



## andygold

Well, didn't get any replies to some previous questions, but I've got some different ones now...

The OP says that you can't have too much filtration capacity. Any thoughts as to filtration turnover(GPH/LPH) for a shrimp tank?

I have an old Eheim 2015 that turns over about 135 GPH. That would turn my 10 gallon tank over 13 times per hour. So, what is the recommended flow rate for a shrimp tank? I also have an AC 20 (AC Mini) filter as well. Would that provide enough/not enough flow for shrimp on the same 10 gallon tank?

With all the different substrates and their various resulting PH levels, how does one determine which substrate to use? My PH from the tap is anywhere from 8.0 to 8.5. I'm looking to get started with the easiest to keep shrimp/breed, whatever type that may be. So, how do I determine how much each of the various substrates will lower the PH? Do I pick one and see what happens, and then pick the shrimp to fit those parameters? Basically, is there a known amount of PH drop per substrate that can be used to determine how low my PH will go with each individual substrate? I'd prefer not to have to try multiple substrates, just to find out which is best for my water.


----------



## GeToChKn

andygold said:


> How about some info on tankmates...and salt
> 
> I am considering setting up a shrimp/invert-only tank. I'd like to incorporate some other inverts into the tank if that is advisable. I'm not looking for a planted tank. I'm also looking to do things as easy as possible (if that's possible)
> 
> I currently have a guppy tank that has some nerite snails, trumpet snails (not MTS), and a red Clawed Crab (Perisesarma Bidens). The Nerites can go from marine to brackish or even FW. The crab likes some salt in her water, and the snails, I'm not sure (I do know they hate a PH of around 6.0), as when it's at that level, they stay closed up and don't go under the substrate during the day, like they should.
> 
> Are any/all of those mentioned compatible with shrimp?
> 
> I see nothing mentioned about salinity when people mention any of the shrimp species referenced earlier in this thread. Are they all totally FW varieties, or do they like a little salt in their water? If so, what specific gravity reading?
> 
> I ask, as I have a water softener at home that is plumbed into the whole house including outdoor spigots. The water is typically between 8.0 & 8.5 PH, and 8-15ppm TDS. I'm "guessing" the solids are mostly salt, but that's just a guess. It's too soft for Applesnails (eroding shells), and due to its low mineral content, it has no buffering ability and I get very low PH (6.0 or lower) in the tank in a day or two, down from a PH of 8.0
> 
> So, what's the story on some salt, and inter-species companionship?


I've never tried long term, I've only done aquarium salt dips on cherry shrimp to rid disease but that's not the same, so I really don't know how they would do long term.




andygold said:


> Well, didn't get any replies to some previous questions, but I've got some different ones now...
> 
> The OP says that you can't have too much filtration capacity. Any thoughts as to filtration turnover(GPH/LPH) for a shrimp tank?
> 
> I have an old Eheim 2015 that turns over about 135 GPH. That would turn my 10 gallon tank over 13 times per hour. So, what is the recommended flow rate for a shrimp tank? I also have an AC 20 (AC Mini) filter as well. Would that provide enough/not enough flow for shrimp on the same 10 gallon tank?
> 
> With all the different substrates and their various resulting PH levels, how does one determine which substrate to use? My PH from the tap is anywhere from 8.0 to 8.5. I'm looking to get started with the easiest to keep shrimp/breed, whatever type that may be. So, how do I determine how much each of the various substrates will lower the PH? Do I pick one and see what happens, and then pick the shrimp to fit those parameters? Basically, is there a known amount of PH drop per substrate that can be used to determine how low my PH will go with each individual substrate? I'd prefer not to have to try multiple substrates, just to find out which is best for my water.



When you use active substrates to lower the pH, you need really soft tap water or RO water. If you use a high pH, hard tap water, the soil isn't going to buffer a lot, pH is going to swing when you change water and the substrate will where out very quickly. kH is a very determining factor in pH and most high pH tap waters are high in kH. your gH and other mineral content can be all over the place.

If you plan to keep cherry/fire red/yellow or any of the other neo species, they will usually do fine in a 8-8.5pH water and active substrate isn't needed. If you want to do crystal/tiger/taiwan bee, they like a lower pH and active substrates, RO or very soft water are usually needed.


----------



## Mrturritos

The only thing that I hate about my tank is that I can never find any berried females. Then randomly I see a bunch of tiny shrimp walking around and I scream like a very manly n tough male.... I wish I could at least see the berried females so I know that le shrimp are coming!


----------



## Betta Maniac

Mrturritos said:


> The only thing that I hate about my tank is that I can never find any berried females. Then randomly I see a bunch of tiny shrimp walking around and I scream like a very manly n tough male.... I wish I could at least see the berried females so I know that le shrimp are coming!


Spend more time staring at you tank, LOL! It's shrimp TV (and good for your blood pressure). :hihi: Of course it may also depend on what type of shrimp you're keeping. Some are just nearly impossible to see the eggs on.


----------



## Betta Maniac

andygold said:


> Well, didn't get any replies to some previous questions, but I've got some different ones now...
> 
> The OP says that you can't have too much filtration capacity. Any thoughts as to filtration turnover(GPH/LPH) for a shrimp tank?
> 
> With all the different substrates and their various resulting PH levels, how does one determine which substrate to use?


Most of the shrimp out there are freshwater stream dwellers, not brackish species (ghost and ammanos being the exceptions I know about). So I wouldn't put salt in their tank. And they're find with snails and with ottos. Just be careful not to have too many snails of the food fights can get ugly. 

High turnover is great for shrimp (the cleaner the water the better), but so is low flow, so it's a balancing act. One thing they ALL benefit from is a sponge filter. 

Substrate choice is predicated upon shrimp choice. If you have hard water and are looking to start with an easy shrimp, get neos of some kind and don't worry about a substrate that lowers the pH. Age your tap water to see if the pH goes down to neutral, and if not, mix it with a bit of RO/distilled from the store.


----------



## Mrturritos

Oh believe me I do, the tank gets several stares and magnifying glass through out the day. They are crystal red shrimp but I think I would at least see a berried female once . Feeding time has got to be the best time though, nothing funnier then seeing a shrimp take off with half a pellet of food being chased by five others with more slowly picking up pieces.


----------



## andygold

GeToChKn said:


> When you use active substrates to lower the pH, you need really soft tap water or RO water. If you use a high pH, hard tap water, the soil isn't going to buffer a lot, pH is going to swing when you change water and the substrate will where out very quickly. kH is a very determining factor in pH and most high pH tap waters are high in kH. your gH and other mineral content can be all over the place.
> 
> If you plan to keep cherry/fire red/yellow or any of the other neo species, they will usually do fine in a 8-8.5pH water and active substrate isn't needed. If you want to do crystal/tiger/taiwan bee, they like a lower pH and active substrates, RO or very soft water are usually needed.


So, with my tap water PH @ 8.0-8.5, very soft water (whole house, pelletized salt, water softener), TDS of about 8-15ppm, I should be good to go with _"cherry/fire red/yellow or any of the other neo species"_. I'm thinking on using Safe-T-Sorb as the substrate and then lightly planting in a 5 gallon tank (to start) with one plastic-shield protected 13 watt, 6500K CCF bulb. Some small driftwood and a few pieces of Cholla wood, Prime, & Flourish

Going to try the AquaClear 20 set to minimum flow (I think that's recommended for a 5 gallon) with some Purigen and the OEM sponge. Going to get some foam (or SS screening) for the intake, with either an air powered corner filter filled with sponge (no not baby safe), or a standard sponge to follow.

With the very soft water though, what will buffer it to keep the PH stable? I would figure that harder water with some more minerals in it would be beneficial for buffering PH. Isn't some sort of alkalinity necessary to stabilize the PH?

Can someone point me to a list of plants possibly based upon their PH requirements (or water hardness?). Also, is there a book or digital download that would be *the* beginner's bible for shrimp keeping?

Newbie question I've not seen addressed in regards to planted/shrimp tanks... 
This will be my first foray away from fish only/crabs & snail tanks. With my fish tanks, an important part of my standard cleaning involves gravel vac-ing alternate halves of the substrate with each water change (disgusting yellow-brown water and fish goop). With planted tank threads, I've seen no mention of vacuuming. I'm guessing that vacuuming is a no-no as it would disturb aquascaping, but I'm not sure. How does one get the detritus out of the gravel when dealing with a planted/shrimp tank?

Anything above that flies directly in the face of wisdom, please let me know


----------



## meppitech

What a read! Fantastic!


----------



## jem_xxiii

Great write up, exactly what i was looking for!


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## Saxtonhill

Thanks! Wealth of information here!


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## aroos_tpt

Will seachem excell kill shrimps?


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## Mamabear

Thanks for this STICKY!


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## ricleyle

Nice thread!

I want to share my experience (a really bad one) that I just had a few days ago with all you, so this might save shrimps. I have a 6 Gallon Shrimp only tank (with 1 small rabbit snail), all Sulawesi Cardinal.

Here the parameters and equipment: 
Ammonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
Nitrates = 0 – 5 ppm
PH = 7.5
Temp = 81 – 83 F
TDS = 140

6 gallons fluval edge aquarium
1 cannister filter (Marineland C160, rate up to 30 gallons)
Fluval substrate
1 heater
RO/DI water with Sulawesi minerals (7.5)
1 air stone
Driftwood
Cholla wood
Quartz (decoration)


I started it with 7 Sulawesi Cardinal Shrimps and after 11 months I got more than 40 (I even had to sell some because of the space). So, after all that time I just saw 3-4 death shrimp (all babies). That was until 3 days ago; 2 days ago I noticed 2 death shrimps ( 1 adult), in the beginning I thought it was because of the fact that they are supposed to live up to 2 years, so 1 year old when I bought them plus 1 more year makes sense for the adult, the following day (yesterday) I noticed another 2 death, so I said myself there’s something wrong here. I removed an acrylic that I have to hide the filter tubes and the heater and I saw at least another 8 death!! . I started to freak out. 

Right away a did a test of all the parameters, Ammonia = 0, Copper = 0, Temperature = 83 F, TDS: 140, PH = 7.5, Nitrite = 0, the only one that got my attention was the Nitrate that was at 5 ppm – 10ppm. So I performed a 40% water change, while I was doing it I noticed one mother shrimp with their babies in her belly dying, so sad to see that.

I was going through my mind what else could it be that’s causing this, so I remembered that a few weeks ago I read this document where it said that the air stones could be almost at the surface of the water because that was where all the gas exchange was done, so 2 weeks ago I moved it to the surface. That’s when I realized that the problem was that the air stone was almost outside, so there was little or none air in the water. I almost sure that my aquarium was for at least 2-3 days with not enough air (after the last water change performed). I right away put the air stone in the bottom of the aquarium and increased the air flow. Like magic I could see the shrimp getting better (unfortunately the shrimp mother did not make it and died a few hours after). I have not seen any other shrimp death after that.

Moral:

-	Monitor your parameters (as often as you can) and your equipment (daily).
-	Take a few minutes to see the shrimp behavior (you can do it when you feed them).
-	As soon as you see deaths or something unusual, Act fast, you can lose them very fast. Do not assume that it will change or get better by itself with no intervention from your part. If I had wait another day, I’m sure all will be death.
-	For my experience, make sure you get your water with enough oxygen, if not you can find all inhabitants dead in a matter of hours/days. I even bought a battery pump in case of a power outage.

Thanks,


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## DayOlder

WOW, glad I read it all but almost sorry to see it end.


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## youjettisonme

DayOlder said:


> WOW, glad I read it all but almost sorry to see it end.


I haven't been around in awhile. Did Planted Tank do away with Stickies? Just curious. It's been so long for me now that I'll have to refer to my own writing to just figure out where to begin again after so many years away.


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## Jadenlea

welcome back Jettison!! I just got back a couple weeks ago myself. The board seems really quiet now.  

I remember this post and string though.. I read every page!!


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## youjettisonme

Jadenlea said:


> welcome back Jettison!! I just got back a couple weeks ago myself. The board seems really quiet now.
> 
> I remember this post and string though.. I read every page!!


I remember you! Cool that we bumped into each other. I miss this hobby so much.


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## ch3fb0yrdee

youjettisonme said:


> I remember you! Cool that we bumped into each other. I miss this hobby so much.




Any reason why you stepped away a while back? Your scapes were amazing.


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## youjettisonme

ch3fb0yrdee said:


> Any reason why you stepped away a while back? Your scapes were amazing.


Thanks! Well, I ended up going back to racing bicycles. That involves training about 15 hours a week + lots of travel. I just didn't have any time to hold a full-time job, have a relationship, race, and then also take care of tanks. 

I am hoping to find a better balance though. I just got rid of one tank two weeks ago and hope to get rid of at least 2 more, leaving me with 3 tanks total. I plan to make one of those a show-quality tank again in the near future.


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## Salvanost

i think the thread need more specific instruction
like not using UGF with ADA Amazonia

it would leeching ammonia too much

question:
how to get more biofilm?


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## kman

Salvanost said:


> i think the thread need more specific instruction
> like not using UGF with ADA Amazonia
> 
> it would leeching ammonia too much
> 
> question:
> how to get more biofilm?


Why on earth would anyone _want_ biofilm, let alone want _more_ of it?!? :confused1:


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## ch3fb0yrdee

Shrimpers like biofilm because shrimps feed off it. People spend big bucks on products that would help them grow more biofilm.


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## kman

ch3fb0yrdee said:


> Shrimpers like biofilm because shrimps feed off it. People spend big bucks on products that would help them grow more biofilm.


Wow. Filed under "Things I learned today." 

Shrimpers: Free biofilm, all you want from my tanks, anytime! :hihi:


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## shrimpzoo

kman said:


> Wow. Filed under "Things I learned today."
> 
> Shrimpers: Free biofilm, all you want from my tanks, anytime! :hihi:


You can always make your own shrimp tank  then you can dump anything with biofilm in it to be cleaned lol.


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## kman

shrimpzoo said:


> You can always make your own shrimp tank  then you can dump anything with biofilm in it to be cleaned lol.


If only there were an appropriate horizontal surface available...


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## Goosekeeper

What's the ideal Shrimp tank? 

If you were setting up an ideal tank with the goal to have a stable, healthy tank that displayed the beauty and character of these shrimp what would you choose? And would it vary by type? Caridina, Neocaridina, or Sulawesi.

I see a number of 12 Gallon Longs, 20 Gallon Longs, 60p, 90p, etc. but I'm not sure if these are being selected with the above goals in mind.


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## youjettisonme

Goosekeeper said:


> What's the ideal Shrimp tank?
> 
> If you were setting up an ideal tank with the goal to have a stable, healthy tank that displayed the beauty and character of these shrimp what would you choose? And would it vary by type? Caridina, Neocaridina, or Sulawesi.
> 
> I see a number of 12 Gallon Longs, 20 Gallon Longs, 60p, 90p, etc. but I'm not sure if these are being selected with the above goals in mind.


Especially for new keepers, I think that they need to be aware of their end-product and long term goals. For example...

1) How much time are you willing to invest weekly?
2) What's your monthly budget?
3) Is having a beautiful, lush planted tank important to you?
4) Do you have eventual goals of breeding and selling?

If you can't answer these questions in advance then there's a fair to great chance that you will make a lot of poor choices. BKK, for example, are going to take a lot more time, finesse, and money to maintain. Plus, your chances of catastrophic failure and a zero return on your investment is heightened exponentially. 

A breeder tank looks a LOT different than a show tank. If you want both simultaneously, you're going to be taking some pretty dramatic steps, and making some pretty dramatic compromises to make it all work. 

To "display the beauty and character of the shrimp"? That's a tough one. Realistically, that's going to be a neo tank because of their greater tolerance for CO2, ferts, and higher TDS. Most BKK tanks are nothing much to look at, and it would be hard to argue that their surroundings are somehow teasing out their "beauty and character". They are just beautiful, period, no doubt, but it isn't the surroundings.


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## Goosekeeper

Sorry for the delay in your response. With the time you've devoted to this thread and answering questions I shouldn't have been so late to respond.

1) How much time are you willing to invest weekly?
This hobby is so relaxing; it's much cheaper than therapy. I 30-60 minutes per day. 

2) What's your monthly budget?
As with many hobbies, things can get expensive quickly. The danger is in not setting a budget. I'd be comfortable spending $20 a month or $100 a month or more if it guaranteed a successful tank.

3) Is having a beautiful, lush planted tank important to you?
A simple and functional tank is important, but it has to be pleasing to the eye. Many of the breeding tanks are a bit of an eyesore while the presentation tanks are probably not ideal settings for invertebrates. There has to be a happy medium.

4) Do you have eventual goals of breeding and selling?
I'd like the shrimp to breed; I'd like to explore some selective breeding. Selling isn't a priority. 

So, all of that said. I'm leaning towards a 12 gallon long. The small size worries me a bit, but I'm not sure if a 17 gallon would make that much of a difference and going to a 32 gallon seems like the more logical step.


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## newbieplanter

About time great info here! Saweeeeeeet


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## AutumnSky

Thanks all for sharing your info /secrets!


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## KleineVampir

Two questions: Will mineral balls help the "water hardness" problem? I have some in the mail and hopefully that was a good buy.

Any recommendations for specific models of filters for my red cherry shrimp? I want to breed them, so I don't want to suck up the babies. Right now I have a Fluval Chi 5 gallon tank, and the filter is weak but still worrying. Also a good plant light recommendation would be good since that will be replaced along with the filter.


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## clownplanted

KleineVampir said:


> Two questions: Will mineral balls help the "water hardness" problem? I have some in the mail and hopefully that was a good buy.
> 
> 
> 
> Any recommendations for specific models of filters for my red cherry shrimp? I want to breed them, so I don't want to suck up the babies. Right now I have a Fluval Chi 5 gallon tank, and the filter is weak but still worrying. Also a good plant light recommendation would be good since that will be replaced along with the filter.




Could go sponge filter, canister or hob. Really up to you. Can easily block the intake with these Generic Pre-Filter Sponge / Foam Set For Fluval Edge Aquarium (Pack Of 12) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J5Z44OE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_HD2AAkslupvFf
Will fit many sizes of intake. Or you could get stainless steel mesh cover as well. Stainless Steel Flow Fish Filter Guard Net Shrimp Safe Protect Basket Mesh 12mm by Generic https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ITLERFG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_lZ0Pzb2A58A8E
Good thing about stainless steel guard is you don't have to clean to keep from getting clogged as often as sponge. But sponge gets good bacteria that the shrimp love to feed on

As far as light could get beamswork dhl or Fspec. Recommend dimmer though for low tech as too much light out of box. I have and use this dimmer on my tanks Current USA Truelumen Inline Dimmer for 12 and 24-Volt LED Strip https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FC04I8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_2z5Rx9k8Cv7ON


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KleineVampir

clownplanted said:


> Could go sponge filter, canister or hob. Really up to you. Can easily block the intake with these Generic Pre-Filter Sponge / Foam Set For Fluval Edge Aquarium (Pack Of 12) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J5Z44OE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_HD2AAkslupvFf
> Will fit many sizes of intake. Or you could get stainless steel mesh cover as well. Stainless Steel Flow Fish Filter Guard Net Shrimp Safe Protect Basket Mesh 12mm by Generic https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ITLERFG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_lZ0Pzb2A58A8E
> Good thing about stainless steel guard is you don't have to clean to keep from getting clogged as often as sponge. But sponge gets good bacteria that the shrimp love to feed on
> 
> As far as light could get beamswork dhl or Fspec. Recommend dimmer though for low tech as too much light out of box. I have and use this dimmer on my tanks Current USA Truelumen Inline Dimmer for 12 and 24-Volt LED Strip https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FC04I8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_2z5Rx9k8Cv7ON
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok, thanks. Can I get a recommendation for a small filter system with a sponge pre-intake? There are a few, like the Azoo Mignon. But dang it seems hard to get a matching pre-intake sponge.


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## Zoidburg

Hanaquatics has pre-filter stainless steel filter guards that come in different sizes. These would be your best bet for a small filter.


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