# To Walstad or not...



## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

Hi everyone! I'm new to the forums (first post!), and "serious" fishkeeping in general. As a kid I kept a few tanks (in hindsight, completely wrong), and I'm excited to get back into the hobby. 

I've been researching like crazy, and am a little torn between doing a Walstad-inspired (dirt capped with gravel, no filter) tank or a standard low tech setup. If I went with the more "standard" low tech setup, I would be open to adding CO2 down the line.

I am working with a 55g, aquatic life T5HO fixture, and Marineland C220 canister filter. I also have at my disposal the Eco complete substrate from the previous owner of this aquarium (this all came together). 

Is it ambitious as a beginner into the hobby to set up a Walstad tank? I guess the other reason I'm hesitant to set up a dirted aquarium is because I'm new to aquascaping in general, and feel like I might end up re-scaping. I understand that one of the drawbacks to dirt is the amount of dirt that gets into the water column if you pull/relocate plants.

Thanks!


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## wrm130 (Jan 16, 2013)

I've been keeping fish for....only about 2 years now, so I'm nowhere near close to being an expert.

After several months of trying to keep plants and fighting different types of algaes (maybe it'd be different with what I know now) a friend suggested I try dirt.

My approach is quasi Walstad. Higher light (lots actually), dirt, and mechanical filtration (canister with sponge only, I know bacteria still live here...)

The results are spectacular, easy to maintain and super plant friendly, allowing you to grow *almost* any plant you want. I've failed with tonina belem and pogo stellatus.

It's cheap to do and you have the word of an internet stranger. What do you have to lose? 

I'll post pics of some of my 'cheap' setups if you're interested.

Miracle grow organic potting soil and a cap and you're set.

Replanting is also not the nightmare people make it out to be. If its a big sword, you're in trouble and will have to cut the roots while its still planted (or take half the tank with it) but most other smaller stem plants can me moved with lots of small wiggles and patience.

Hope this helps. I rambled a bit.

cheers


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## Rickybobby (Jan 29, 2013)

My personal opinion would be to dirt it use quality lights and add some filltration. A filterless tank is possible; however, it's a bit trickier to do. Dirt is a great way to go it's cheap and your plants will thank you.


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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

Wrm130--I would definitely like to see pics! 
Ricky-Out of curiosity, what makes a filterless tank trickier? Although I need to read Diana Walstad's book, my understanding is that a heavily planted tank (with the appropriate plants) will essentially be the filter.


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## wrm130 (Jan 16, 2013)

I will pRovide you with shots of 7 tanks in the morning. All have dirt. From time to time I may add some excel but that's not often. Several are what I consider filterless. Teeny tiny sponge wHich I Rinse weekly. Dirt is fun.


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## Method (Feb 13, 2011)

Dirt tanks are fun. Walstad tanks are fun too, but can hold less fish. My advice is to NOT go dirt, since you have eco-complete. Many people that do dirt tanks do so because dirt is a cheaper alternative to a rich sub like eco. So go with what you've got, get some practice, and good luck!


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## sadchevy (Jun 15, 2013)

I vote for dirt capped with your eco complete. Eco complete by itself isn't rich in nutrients, but it does have a high CEC. Being that the EC you have is used means it has absorbed a lot of nutrients and also any chemicals that may have been used in the previous setup. A 1 inch layer of MGOPM capped by EC is a great start.
As for filterless, it can and has been done successfully. I would use a small filter for some mechanical filtration with the added benefit of a gentle current in the tank. The current helps to maintain a more uniform distribution of nutrients throughout the tank.
One more thing, LOTS of plants, especially fast growing stems, will help to keep algae at bay. With dirt you are going to get some algae, but as plants start growing algae will disappear.


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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

Method said:


> Many people that do dirt tanks do so because dirt is a cheaper alternative to a rich sub like eco. So go with what you've got, get some practice, and good luck!


How good is eco complete really? Also, does it lose it's nutrients over time? As in....after three years of use it no longer has nutrients to offer the plants, thus requiring root tabs/supplementation?

From my research into the Walstad method, over time the fish add nutrients to the soil, thus creating a self-sustaining nutrient source...

One of my other questions is--I have the single (two lamp) T5HO fixture over this standard (21" deep) 55 gallon. I imagine if I don't get another fixture, this is a low-moderate lighting setup? I read about PAR, but am a little confused. 

Finally, if I capped dirt with eco-complete would this create too many nutrients, and thus, an algae problem? 

Sorry if these are stupid questions!


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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

sadchevy said:


> I vote for dirt capped with your eco complete. Eco complete by itself isn't rich in nutrients, but it does have a high CEC. Being that the EC you have is used means it has absorbed a lot of nutrients and also any chemicals that may have been used in the previous setup. A 1 inch layer of MGOPM capped by EC is a great start.
> As for filterless, it can and has been done successfully. I would use a small filter for some mechanical filtration with the added benefit of a gentle current in the tank. The current helps to maintain a more uniform distribution of nutrients throughout the tank.
> One more thing, LOTS of plants, especially fast growing stems, will help to keep algae at bay. With dirt you are going to get some algae, but as plants start growing algae will disappear.


You must have wrote this as I was also writing my questions about the EC over dirt. 
I like the idea of using a canister filter with just the foam, and potentially a powerhead within the tank (depending on the fish I decide to stock, I suppose).


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## Method (Feb 13, 2011)

khennessy said:


> How good is eco complete really? Also, does it lose it's nutrients over time? As in....after three years of use it no longer has nutrients to offer the plants, thus requiring root tabs/supplementation?
> 
> From my research into the Walstad method, over time the fish add nutrients to the soil, thus creating a self-sustaining nutrient source...
> 
> ...


Eco-complete can be recharged with nothing more than fish poop and/or fertilizers.

CEC, or cation exchange capacity, is a measure of how much ions (plant nutrients) a soil can exchange with the surroundings. Sand and most gravels have very low CEC, while eco-complete and capped soil have high CEC. Eco-complete will only get 'used up' if it is receiving less nutrients (poop) than it is giving up to the plants. There is no reason you couldn't cap dirt with eco-complete. It won't hurt anything. However, it's a lot easier to mix things than to separate them! 

That lighting should be more than you need, depending on the height, fixture, bulbs, and reflectors. Check out the lighting chart at http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184368 Specifically the graph labelled 'PAR vs. Distance for various t5 fixtures' on the first page.
For low light, you're aiming for less than 30 PAR. More than that invites algae without the use of CO2. It is usually high light or slow-growing plants rather than excess nutrients that cause algae outbreaks.


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## wrm130 (Jan 16, 2013)

Here's three tanks anyways. 

I highly recommend dirt. It will save you money and many headaches in the long run. As someone else mentioned plant heavily. 

Good luck whatever you decide. 

I use spiral bulbs or t5ho.


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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

Method said:


> Eco-complete can be recharged with nothing more than fish poop and/or fertilizers.
> 
> CEC, or cation exchange capacity, is a measure of how much ions (plant nutrients) a soil can exchange with the surroundings. Sand and most gravels have very low CEC, while eco-complete and capped soil have high CEC. Eco-complete will only get 'used up' if it is receiving less nutrients (poop) than it is giving up to the plants. There is no reason you couldn't cap dirt with eco-complete. It won't hurt anything. However, it's a lot easier to mix things than to separate them!
> 
> ...


Method--thank you! That makes sense.

wrm130--your tanks are beautiful! Thank you for sharing your results


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## Method (Feb 13, 2011)

Just to amend my last statement: dirt DOES have an initial store of nutrients which eco complete lacks. However most dirt subs peter out over the course of months to a year or two depending upon the amount of heavy root-feeding plants and how much fertilization takes place. I have a dirt tank, a fluorite tank, and a blasting grit tank. They each have their own needs and quirks.


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Is that a non-CO2 tank? What is the red plant?


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## wrm130 (Jan 16, 2013)

No c02. 

I know the smaller red plant as ludwigia sp.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

If you have access to Walstad's book (try ILL if nothing else), I'd strongly recommend reading it (I bought a copy after reading it).

I think if you are new to planted tanks, the Walstad method is probably the way to go. Relatively easy, very little to no increases in maintenance, can be done very inexpensively, etc.


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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

Thanks, everyone! I decided to go with a Walstad approach, and purchased the organic potting mix today.


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## PeterN1986 (Jun 15, 2011)

wrm130 said:


> Here's three tanks anyways.
> 
> I highly recommend dirt. It will save you money and many headaches in the long run. As someone else mentioned plant heavily.
> 
> ...


How do the plants stay that red with no CO2? Are you dosing any Iron or doing any root tabs? You have ALOT of growth, almost as if you were using CO2.


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## fish h20 (May 5, 2009)

PeterN1986 said:


> How do the plants stay that red with no CO2? Are you dosing any Iron or doing any root tabs? You have ALOT of growth, almost as if you were using CO2.


It's funny how people can't believe it when they see a dirt tank. Think about it, how many plants do you see growing on their own in just rocks? Dirt grows plants, period. You can grow plants in rocks but it is more work.


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## wrm130 (Jan 16, 2013)

PeterN1986 said:


> How do the plants stay that red with no CO2? Are you dosing any Iron or doing any root tabs? You have ALOT of growth, almost as if you were using CO2.



I have no reason to lie. Just trying to help as well as convert others to dirt. It IS the best thing to have ever happened to my tanks. I dose nothing and have no C02 on this tank.

This tank does, however have a slightly thicker dirt layer than I usually do. Give me a minute and I'll post pics from my phone.

Thanks fishH20. To further elaborate on this point, pick any river, stream, lake, pond etc....dig into the bottom, I bet you won't find glass!

I'm not knocking those who dose they're tanks. It's an art that's currently beyond me. I'm just trying to pass along something that's easy and works.

FYI
18g 60L cm x 35W x 39H
2x24w T5H0
kh: 3-4
ph: 7.2/7.4
temp: 76-78

WC every 4-5days. 40%. Tap water kh: 2. Coral in filter. That's all I can share.

Oh bulbs are 6700 and 10 000 k zoomed


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## wrm130 (Jan 16, 2013)

Here's the bed


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## wrm130 (Jan 16, 2013)

Here's another non c02 non dosing tank. This one is practically filterless. I Rinse the sponge in the tiny filter under hot water weekly.


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## GadgetGirl (Oct 11, 2013)

I believe you! Here is my Walstad tank - no CO2, no ferts! 









Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## wrm130 (Jan 16, 2013)

GadgetGirl said:


> I believe you! Here is my Walstad tank - no CO2, no ferts!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank yOu! 

I'm generally not a fan of wisteria but your tank is beautiful!!! What can you tell us about your water and light?


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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

Gadgetgirl--I read your tank journal, and loved it. Your tank is beautiful!
Can anyone dumb down the benefit of mineralizing the soil? I was unable to locate the supplies to mineralize at Lowe's--is there somewhere else local I could fine the supplies I need to mineralize my potting soil?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hi khennessy! It looks like you already made the decision to go with the Walstad tank, but I wanted to comment anyway because I wanted to let you know I chuckled when I read this:


khennessy said:


> Hi everyone! I'm new to the forums (first post!), and "serious" fishkeeping in general. As a kid I kept a few tanks (in hindsight, completely wrong), and I'm excited to get back into the hobby.


Because I was in 100% the same boat when I started here! In fact, one of my original posts probably has a VERY similar sentence in it! :hihi: So I just wanted to let you know, you're in good company here! (And I am glad to know I'm not the only one  ) 

Good luck with the tank! I am off to see if you have started a journal about it


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

khennessy said:


> Gadgetgirl--I read your tank journal, and loved it. Your tank is beautiful!
> Can anyone dumb down the benefit of mineralizing the soil? I was unable to locate the supplies to mineralize at Lowe's--is there somewhere else local I could fine the supplies I need to mineralize my potting soil?


I'm not as familiar with the whole process of mineralizing top soil, but I think it's cycling it through wet and dry periods, during which bacteria and such breakdown most of the organics, leaving only the mineral parts. I believe it's lower in, say, nitrogen and humus and such, but more stable.

One of the benefits of using straight dirt, is that the decomposing organic content will add some CO2 to the tank (nowhere near as much as a CO2 system, though).


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## GadgetGirl (Oct 11, 2013)

wrm130 said:


> Thank yOu!
> 
> I'm generally not a fan of wisteria but your tank is beautiful!!! What can you tell us about your water and light?


@wrm130: The lights are 4 Zoo-Med clamp-ons with 23 watt 6500k CFL'S. The aquarium is also in front of South facing windows with blinds for control. I have very soft tap water. Ph 6.8 and KH 0, GH 1 out of the tap. I added a few handfuls of crushed oyster shell to the soil and I have a bag of it in the filter. The resulting water is Ph 7.4 and KH 3, GH 5.

I prune those wisterias constantly! 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## GadgetGirl (Oct 11, 2013)

khennessy said:


> Gadgetgirl--I read your tank journal, and loved it. Your tank is beautiful!
> Can anyone dumb down the benefit of mineralizing the soil? I was unable to locate the supplies to mineralize at Lowe's--is there somewhere else local I could fine the supplies I need to mineralize my potting soil?


Thank you khennessy! 

Lochaber is correct. Soaking and draining gets rid of floating stuff which can leach tannins and basically make a mess! The mineralization process doesn't really need any extra supplies. The wet-dry cycle just jump starts the decomposition process and releases gasses and ammonia that you don't want in the water. The end product looks like humus. I found the OIL-DRI in the automotive section at Walmart. Safe T Sorb is the same thing, but I couldn't find it anywhere. You can also use pure clay kitty litter. This holds nutrients in the soil (CEC). I bought the crushed oyster shell at a farmer's supply store. It's used for chickens! If your tap water is at least moderately hard, you don't need it. 

This may seem like a lot of work (and it is!), but the results are worth it! I managed to do all this in a 3rd floor condo with no patio or balcony. I had to soak the soil in buckets outside the front door. (Neighbors think I'm a bit odd, I believe.) I actually mineralized the soil in the aquarium itself. I attached a clip-on fan and fluffed the soil with a fork several times a day. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

Karackle said:


> Good luck with the tank! I am off to see if you have started a journal about it


I started a journal today for the ten gallon that we're starting as a "trial run" of our 55.


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## nicholz (May 5, 2012)

I say do it or some hybrid version of the walstad method. I have dirt in 5 of 7 tanks and really recommend it. I found that a primary cap of sand ie smaller lightweight granules helps keep it cleaner down the road - I use sand then cap the sand with a heavier gravel or floramax or other substrate. Here are some of my dirted walstad ish tanks: 

















This tank is hard to photograph but its got one small planted (bamboo, pothos and oregano) hang on back filter to move water and no heater. I do have two lights but they are more for the top. One fantail goldfish with some danios, platys and a few young rainbow fry. I removed the rim after the brace broke. I have done one water change in almost two years - mostly I just have to add water after evaporation

















This one has one magnum hot filter and one power head for water circulation. It has a green element 48" evo freshwater led - and it is heated. Very infrequent water changes on this one - twice or three times a year. 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## HuntCast (Aug 25, 2013)

Check out the globe link in my signature. No ferts.... heck, no nothing except top offs. Look at the red that dirt gives you.


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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

Nicholz, can you tell me more about that planted HOB filter?


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## GadgetGirl (Oct 11, 2013)

Here is a really good link for planted HOB's:  http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170324

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## khennessy (Dec 28, 2013)

GadgetGirl said:


> Here is a really good link for planted HOB's:  http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170324
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Thanks Gadgetgirl!


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## 1987 (Jan 27, 2007)

This is my 30 gallon high I have had running for about 3 weeks now. 


Home depot medium to small lake gravel

Miracle gro organic choice potting soil



Not the best picture but you can see I have mo problems with reds and green and the plants just take off.

I've done the injected Co2 high light fert tanks... and to be honest while they grow super fast it is such a pain in the ass to do 50% water changes look at a chart to see what I am supposed to dose....God forbid I go away for a week and I get behind.


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## 1987 (Jan 27, 2007)

Karackle said:


> Hi khennessy! It looks like you already made the decision to go with the Walstad tank, but I wanted to comment anyway because I wanted to let you know I chuckled when I read this:
> 
> 
> Because I was in 100% the same boat when I started here! In fact, one of my original posts probably has a VERY similar sentence in it! :hihi: So I just wanted to let you know, you're in good company here! (And I am glad to know I'm not the only one  )
> ...



I've been doing this for almost 12 years. I wish this was out 12 years ago it would have saved me so much trouble and money. 


Also if you youtube a lot look up dustinsfishtanks he is a dirted tank activist


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