# 10 gallon rimless, and Hello!



## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Hello Everyone!

This would be my first official foray into the care and keeping of fish, not counting the various family goldfish disasters as a kid :wink:

Anyways, I've always loved any and all animals but never had the courage to go through the whole dead fish in a bowl thing again, then I found this kit and it sparked it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgRrrNL-mi4

I decided I wanted a Betta fish, I knew that those tiny bowls couldnt possibly be what's best for them, and my kit wouldn't fit in a bowl anyways!

After lots of research and also joining a Betta forum, I decided I would like to put my Betta in a 10 gal since I have several extras laying around (from my reptile hobby, I often take in rescues hence tons of tanks everywhere lol) I went to work removing the rim and I'm testing it for leaks right now...I don't have any of the needed fishy equipment yet because I would like to take this slow and get it right.

I saw some people had plants in their betta tanks, and that it somehow helped with the toxic chemicals, at first I thought I would just stick my Lucky Bamboo in there (I've already learned that is a BAD idea!), but after even more research I see such an amazing world of possibilities and I'm crazy about the idea of a natural planted tank, and that all lead me here!

You can tell I don't really know much about fish but I've had a lot of experience caring for animals, I love to research and I'm willing to learn!

So thus starts my journey!

Here are my hopes, dreams and specs so far:

I would like it to be low-tech, no Co2 please, but I am willing to dish out for good lighting, not that I really know what "good lighting" is yet!

Tank, 10 Gallon rimless 

25w or 50w Hydor Theo heater (which wattage is best for a 10g?)

I need your help with the filter, I don't know where to start, but it should have adjustable flow (so it won't stress my Betta) but I don't really understand how to tell what makes a good filter :help:

I'm also on the market for substrate, help! I've been researching Flourite, what do you think about this stuff? A wonder or a flop?


As far as the actual plants go, I would really like to have quite a few Marimo(sp?) balls, I really love moss, so maybe some moss growing on the tank floor (how hard is this to do?) or on the tank decorations? And some sorta tallish filler plant ( I don't have ANY IDEA what I want for that yet ) and then I really would like to have a floating plant like this: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/16-Red_Root_Floater_Phyllanthus_fluitans.html or this: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/103-Water_Lettuce_Pistia_stratiotes.html Or anything similar?


I would like to stock it with a male Betta (of course!) and 2-3 African Dwarf Frogs.


Sorry for all the crazy questions, I'm just so nervous!

Thanks, 
Ella~

P.S. I will try to figure out the picture posting thing so I can post some pix of my newly de-rimmed tank


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## Cottagewitch (Oct 22, 2009)

Welcome!!!! Glad to see you are looking to "rescue" a Betta.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Welcome to the forum! It's good to have questions, lol. Here are a few tips about keeping up a planted aquarium.

Plants need the following to grow:
light, co2 and macro/micro nutrients
They need to balance out all three. Thus, if you aren't injecting co2, a lot of light won't do much for the plants and will only cause a lot of algae. Basically, a plant can only absorb as much light as it has co2 and nutrients (gosh I'm bad at explaining this) so it'd be better, if you're not injecting co2 and ferts, to just go with low light.

One tip: Don't be afraid of co2. It's really not that difficult; especially with a betta that can get oxygen through air. Really, all you need is a regulator (such as a milwaukee regulator or azoo, which are cheap and great) and a 2.5/5 # co2 tank (which would last forever on a 10 gallon). If you're injecting co2, you can bump up the light and add ferts. It's moderately costly, with the average co2 system completed being $150, so it's not for everyone. But purchase a $5 drop checker on eBay and you can monitor how much co2 is in the water.

Plants:

You said you wanted mosses and marimo balls. I'm not really sure about marimo balls, I think they're high light, but mosses will definitely grow in low light. I reccomend you try these plants:
-Java Moss: THE hardiest moss. It grows well in 1.5 wpg (watts per gallon) but slowly. You could easily attach it to mesh and put it on the bottom of the tank.
-Amazon swords: they're tall plants and grow well in any conditions.
-Java ferns: look cool, come in different shapes and sizes, and grow okay in low light.
-Crypts: cryptocorynes like wendtii grow very slowly in low light. Crypts like parva are also great foreground plants.
-Anubias: You'll see a lot of anubias 'petite' on driftwood, they look good together. Another low light low speed plant.

That's all I can remember. Other mosses, like peacock, singapore, flame, fissidens fontanis, fissidens nobilis, fissidens geppi, christmas moss, notocyphus lutescens, etc. are more high light.

Lighting:

For a low light, a 15 watt bulb is fine. Better would be 25 watt or 30 watts, but above that you might be getting algae.

Nutrients:

ADA makes a line of ferts, specifically the green brighty series, which are great for planted tanks. If you're using a low light tank, I recommend brighty k special shade and green brighty steps 1+2 (3 is only used after the tank is fully matured) You could also check out Pfertz. Searchem flourish will get the job done too.

All plants need three nutrients in abundance: nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. These are called "macro" nutrients. They also need smaller amounts of other nutrients like iron, phosphate, etc. These are called "micro" nutrients. ADA brighty k supplies potassium, and the green brightys supply phosphorus, iron, nitrogen, phosphate etc.

Soil/Substrate: 

I strongly recommend ADA aquasoil amazonia. It grows plants very well. Most people here swear to aquasoil. Fluorite works well also, but it won't lower the pH of your aquarium (which you typically want, because plants grow better in lower pH)

Filter: 

You can try a HOB filter (hold on back) which wouldn't produce a big flow on an aquarium, even an oversized one. But if you want, you can go with an eheim canister filter. The appropriate canister size for a 10 gallon would probably be a 2213. A canister filter with glass lily pipes looks real nice because you can only see the glass.

Sorry if this is confusing, or expensive. You definitely don't have to follow everything on here. Good luck with your fish!


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Wow! Thanks for all the info Senior Shrimpo! I think your explanation was great! 

I'm really interested in this canister with glass lily pipes, I didn't know you could do that! I know this sounds silly, but I don't really understand how the canister filter works? Like where do you put it?

Even though you made the Co2 sound tempting, I want this tank to have minimal equipment cluttering it up, I have it on like a buffet type table not a stand so I don't really have anywhere to stash all the gear, I'm really going for simplicity, but thank you, you definitely made it sound a lot less intimidating :angel: Maybe sometime down the road once I get the hang of this tank thing :icon_wink

I heard that the moss balls were lowlight, but maybe I'm wrong? 
Thanks for all the plant suggestions, the java moss sounds perfect!! The "petite" Anubias sound adorable. *goes to research all the plants you mentioned*

As far as lighting goes, when I was researching in saltwater tanks (but then decided I'd rather have a trained Betta) there was a very popular Par30-Par38 led light bulbs that screwed into regular sockets (http://www.boostled.com/products/par30-reef-lamps)...is there anything like this for freshwater plants? I would really love to have an industrial desk lamp poised over the tank or a pendant. Or are there incandescent bulbs that support photosynthesis? Or halogen bulbs? I don't know much about lighting, but I really kinda despise the long flourescent tubes, and my tank being rimless, I won't have a hood.


Soil!: I have been researching away and discovered that flourite is inert? I'd rather have a soil that is doing something, right? I've been checking out the sticky on MTS and I think I'm hooked, I'm going to gather the supplies this week and start the crazy process, and hopefully learn some patience!




> Welcome!!!! Glad to see you are looking to "rescue" a Betta.


Mee tooo!! :bounce:

P.S. How do I get the quote thingy to say who I quoted?


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

A canister filter goes under or next to an aquarium and sucks the water out, filters it and pumps it back in.

My first planted tank I had mts capped with sand, and the only plant I had was dwarf hairgrass, about 3 weeks later the whole tank was fully filled with the hairgrass. It was a 10 gallon

I now have 2 ten gallon with mts, a five and a fifty five , all with mts, it's an amazing thing one of the 10's and the five are jungles!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Flourite is not technically inert, though many claim it is. Flourite does contain some nutrients that are bioavailable to plants and, more importantly, has a very high CEC- which basically means that it absorbs nutrients from the water column and stores them in a form that plants can use through their roots.

So yes, Flourite would work well for your tank. Just one bag is sufficient for a 10gal. Make sure to rinse it really, really well before putting it in the tank, though- it tends to be very dusty.

Check out the nano tank forum for light fixture ideas. A 15 watt T8 strip is what I use over my own 10gal, but mine has a rim so I can place the light directly on the tank. If you raise the light up off the tank, you'll need to go with that much more light.

Don't go with a T5HO light, however- that will be way too much light for a low tech tank.

Yes, Marimo moss balls will do fine in low light. Just keep in mind that since they're actually algae not moss you won't be able to ever use Excel (a popular carbon supplement and algae killer) on your tank, since the Excel would kill them.

Some other good plant options for a low tech tank like you're talking about include Java ferns and crypts.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

hey welcome to the forums! I'm glad to see you're thinking of rescuing a betta. I just recently ventured into this hobby as well with a 10 gallon betta tank.

As what was said in previous posts some good plants are java moss, anubais, amazon sword, crypts etc.

I have a marimo ball in my 10 gallon tank. I love it. They are very cool things. They are also good at taking away nutrients that would go to promote algae and act sorta like a sponge.

I started my tank in December and added a few plants, amazon sword, marimo ball, a few plants like that. I had a little bit of algae buildup (diatoms) but that's normal for a newly established tank. Over the past 2 weeks though I had some major algae buildup (I don't have anything in there controlling algae except plants). The key to controlling algae is balance between what your setup provides and what your plants consume. I havent found that balance yet 

C02 injection can help deter algae. I built my setup for only $10. All you need is a 20oz bottle, a small glass jar with a lid (drop checker), some airline tubing, a valve check, a wooden airstone (you can get a more advanced difuser if you want), some yeast, sugar, and baking soda (i think soda...it may be powder). Anyway all you would need to do is change the formula every 2-3 weeks. it's quite simple and fairly effective.

I hope you enjoy this hobby, there are so many possibilities. If you have any questions you should definitely post here on the forums. The people here are very knowledgeable (especially Laura).

Once you start really getting things set up post a journal thread so we can follow your tank's progress 

Enjoy! roud:


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

lauraleellbp said:


> Flourite is not technically inert, though many claim it is. Flourite does contain some nutrients that are bioavailable to plants and, more importantly, has a very high CEC- which basically means that it absorbs nutrients from the water column and stores them in a form that plants can use through their roots.


Thank you so much for clearing that up for me! Also what is a T5HO light? Isn't that flourescent?


Thanks for the Co2 DIY suggestions AquaStudent, that is awesome! Do you have a picture of what the Co2 setup looks like?


And to james7139, do you add fertilizers to any of your tanks? And do you use Co2 or not?

Thanks, 
Ella~


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Always glad to see more bettas on the forum! 

I'm another one who REALLY likes ADA, but I'm going to try the MTS for my next tank (just to see if I can be happy with a cheaper option). My boys really like floating plants (penny wort and myrio) and stalks they can wiggle through (water sprite, amazon swords). 

I've had no luck at all with the moss balls. All mine turn brown/grey and die . . . (that's $40 I'll never see again). 

As for filters, a lot of the HOBs just have too much flow for my boys. The one I like best so far is the Toms Rapids PF 80:

http://www.aquariumguys.com/rapids-power-filter-pf-80.html


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

elliebellie said:


> Thanks for the Co2 DIY suggestions AquaStudent, that is awesome! Do you have a picture of what the Co2 setup looks like?


I'm working on a video of my DIY system. It'll take awhile because I'm completely bogged down with homework but I'll get one up soon.

There are many diagrams all over the web you can find by doing a google search for 10 gallon DIY co2 system or variants of that search.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

elliebellie said:


> Also what is a T5HO light? Isn't that flourescent?


Yes, T5HO is one of the flourescent lighting options on the market right now.

The most common options are "compact flourescent" lighting- which for a tank this size would involve either spiral or U-shaped bulbs, T8 bulbs (which are the standard flourescent tubes sold in most standard canopy setups), T5 NO (NO = normal output) or T5HO (HO = high output).

You could use a screw-in bulb type fixture and replace it with a CF bulb. Or you could use an adjustable arm desk lamp with a flourescent bulb.

LED technology for FW tanks is still very new so IDK that much about it. I know there ARE some bulbs available, but from what I've heard they tend to be pretty expensive.


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Betta Maniac said:


> As for filters, a lot of the HOBs just have too much flow for my boys. The one I like best so far is the Toms Rapids PF 80:
> 
> http://www.aquariumguys.com/rapids-power-filter-pf-80.html


Thank you sooo much!!! I was completely lost in the huge world of filters, but I am ordering one immeadiately! (and on sale too, omgsh!!)



AquaStudent said:


> I'm working on a video of my DIY system. It'll take awhile because I'm completely bogged down with homework but I'll get one up soon.
> 
> There are many diagrams all over the web you can find by doing a google search for 10 gallon DIY co2 system or variants of that search.


Ok yay!



lauraleellbp said:


> You could use a screw-in bulb type fixture and replace it with a CF bulb. Or you could use an adjustable arm desk lamp with a flourescent bulb.


That is just what I am looking into right now! (You have helped me out so much on my other thread!)

I just adore this site!


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Here's some less positive advice - bettas are often jumpers, so he's not likely to last long in a rimless tank.

One thing you could do to prevent jumping is to drop the water level to the 1/2 or 1/3 level, which is still luxurious from a betta perspective(they're surface hugging airbreathers anyways). You could then grow plants emersed out of the water, which is way easier than pumping CO2 into the tank. Cyperus helferi would look particularly good in a tank like that, along with many of the hygro plants.


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## g01ngog (Dec 30, 2010)

kuni said:


> Here's some less positive advice - bettas are often jumpers, so he's not likely to last long in a rimless tank.
> 
> One thing you could do to prevent jumping is to drop the water level to the 1/2 or 1/3 level, which still luxurious from a betta perspective(they're surface hugging airbreathers anyways). You could then grow plants emersed out of the water, which is way easier than pumping CO2 into the tank. Cyperus helferi would look particularly good in a tank like that, along with many of the hygro plants.


One thing that I've done is went to home depot and bought an acrylic sheet, cut it to the size that I want, and used it to cover my aquarium. And depending on the room temperature vs the temperature in the aquarium i have some small holes to let the air come through to reduce condensation.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

elliebellie said:


> Thank you sooo much!!! I was completely lost in the huge world of filters, but I am ordering one immeadiately! (and on sale too, omgsh!!)




I like it because my betta can literally plant his butt on the intake (as my HM likes to do!) and it doesn't damage his fins at ALL. And it has an adjustable flow. Also, I don’t bother to buy replacement cartridges. I just use filter floss behind the plastic guard.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

g01ngog said:


> One thing that I've done is went to home depot and bought an acrylic sheet, cut it to the size that I want, and used it to cover my aquarium. And depending on the room temperature vs the temperature in the aquarium i have some small holes to let the air come through to reduce condensation.


 
This is what I did to (though I went to Tap Plastics, where they also made cutouts for my filter and drilled air holes.


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks Kuni! I was planning on having the water level low but would the filter still work?


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

The filter is on it's way! And the heater too, yay!!




Betta Maniac said:


> I like it because my betta can literally plant his butt on the intake (as my HM likes to do!) and it doesn't damage his fins at ALL. And it has an adjustable flow. Also, I don’t bother to buy replacement cartridges. I just use filter floss behind the plastic guard.


How many GPH did you set your filter for? And when the filter floss gets all icky, do you throw it away and replace it or rinse it? :help:

Sorry for all the annoying questions!
I'm really feeling like a fish noob :icon_roll

Thanks,
Ella~


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

I think I'm going to start a journal for this tank, yay!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

when you do post the link so we can follow it


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