# Empty Eclipse6, planting suggestions



## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Hi folks, I just emptied my fish-only Eclipse 6. It now has 3" of substrate (1" kitty litter, 1.5" sand/small gravel/laterite mix, 0.5" play sand).

The lighting is stock (8w T5), which I'll keep for now. The filter has been modified to contain poly/pads, I'm currently using the biowheel.

With this level of lighting, I think no CO2 for the time being. I'll dose Flourish & F.Excel, plus NPK, if that sounds ok? I may go for an ahsupply retro and DIY later.

Question is, what stems could I plant, in these low-light conditions, to cover up the left-side equipment? I know that Eclipse is notoriously poor at illuminating the rear...

I'm thinking all anubias for the foreground, though I am open to suggestions. The little guy there is a left over from my first failed planting attempt. I may put java fern or moss on the driftwood...

Excuse the pic, the acrylic stll has a little residue from the KL, etc...

Thanks!


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

First thing that comes to mind is I LOVE THAT WOOD !

How about a nice java moss jungle at the base of the wood with some narrow leaf java ferns attached at the middle of the wood and then load up on some nice wendtii crypts around the wood to grow up behind the edges for a start  
All these plants like lower end lighting and do wonders for a tank's balance. A bit of the "petite nana's" would be nice around that wood also... :wink: 

Stem plants.... hmmm, some sunset hygro maybe? , it gets minimum color in low light but still grows nicer then polysperma.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I just reread my post... Do you think I like that wood ? roud:

I would stand it up though and let the 2 legs act as roots coming forward ...


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Thanks Buck! I like it, too. My LFS has a whole selection - pricey (this one was $16.50), but nice. It's Mopani, I believe.

Anyway, I tried it on end, but it's a little tall. Maybe I could bury it... Any ideas on doing that without totally messing up the layering (and clouding the tank)? 

Crypt wendtii would look great, thanks. I'll put that into my order. Speaking of which, how many Crypts/Anubias should I get? The tank is 8x15 (bowfront), so space is limited. I'm thinking 3 of each, or is that too much?

Sunset Hygro sounds like a good choice too, but I'm open to other suggestions.

Thanks again,
Ian


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

I would go for something a little smaller leaved than the sunset hygro, it could make a tank that size look unbalanced. I would go with either Ludwigia arcuata or even Rotala indica.

Apart from everyone elses experiences, I get much more intense red in my sunset hygro when in my low-light tanks than when in my high-light tank.


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

How would R. indica look in that dim corner? Would the low-lighting just slow it down, or would it kill it? What about coloration?

I like the Ludwigia idea.

Also, my LFS has a few beautiful bunches of Green Lloydiella (Lysimachia nummularia). It has been there for over a month. I know these are supposed to require high lighting, but it is now growing under a single 55w CF strip, shared amongst 4x30g tanks. These tanks are in a square configuration (you walk around to view all the plants), and the light is placed 24" above.

Anyway, the Lloydiella hasn't grown much, but looks healthy. What do you guys think of this plant? I think the lime-green leaves would look great in that corner, but would low-lighting eventually cause problems?

Thanks,
Ian

Edit: spelling.


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## Daemonfly (Oct 1, 2003)

Unless you plan on upgrading the lighting, you have to go with the easiest low-light plants.

Java Fern & Java Moss barely grew in my 6G Eclipse until I added a bit more light. The design sucks for plants, imho, and only poorly reflected 8W over 6G complicates it even more.


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Dude, I've seen yours with stock lighting... It could be worse. 

I just looked at it again. You've got <1" of substrate. Mine's got a little more than 3" (looks like 5" in that little tank), which shortens the water column by 20%. I hope that equates to a little more light in the water column. I know the back still sucks...


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## Pooky125 (Jul 30, 2002)

Funny thing about the Lysimachia nummularia. I originally had this plant in a 30 gallon extra tall, with barley 1.5 watts per gallon, but it got late after noon sun and florished. It grew very fast, with a nice green color. I put it in a tank with 2 wpg, and it died almost immditatally. Put it in a tank with 2.6 wpg, and it again, didn't survive. So, from experience, the lower the light, the better it grows. Give it a shot, you never know. I've had great luck with it in low light.


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Well, I got silly and grabbed the L. nummularia. Thanks, pooky, for the post-purchase reassurance.  We shall see...

Any comments on the health of this plant (deficiencies, etc), or whether I should do any pruning (i.e. large, lower leaves), would be appreciated. I'm hoping my Anubias (when they arrive) will hide the unattractive lower stem/leaves.

Here's a pic:


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I like the wood too. it looks like a piece of Malaysian wood to me though. I agree with Buck when he said to turn it on it's side. It would look like a stump.
You may be able to put some Vals along side and behind it and a group of nice, smaller Crypts in the nook of the two "roots". 
George is dead on about sticking to smaller leaved plants, particularly in a smaller aquarium. The plants take on a bigger scale, as does the rest of the aquarium.

Mike


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

hypsophrys said:


> Maybe I could bury it... Any ideas on doing that without totally messing up the layering (and clouding the tank)?


I think you should be able to push it slowly, with some rocking movements, into the substrate. This will raise up the substrate close to the root, which might not be a bad thing. Just smoothen it out, it shouldn't mess up layering too much, nor cause major haze.

I have to agree, this would look more natural/appealing if it would stand up the way Buck described it.


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Ok, I will try that this weekend.

My planned plant order (which may have to wait until after xmas):

3x A. barteri v. nana (lt foreground)
3x C. beckettii v.petchii (mid/rt foreground - between "roots")
3x C. wendtii "brown" (or should I go green, since the beckettii is reddish?) (around/behind driftwood)

Is this overkill?

I don't think I like the val. idea, seems like it would be overpowering in here...

Ian

Edit: sp.


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

Vals would probably get too big for a tank that size anyway.


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## Daemonfly (Oct 1, 2003)

hypsophrys said:


> Dude, I've seen yours with stock lighting... It could be worse.
> 
> I just looked at it again. You've got <1" of substrate. Mine's got a little more than 3" (looks like 5" in that little tank), which shortens the water column by 20%. I hope that equates to a little more light in the water column. I know the back still sucks...


That wasn't just stock lighting. I had to supplement it with a 13w PC. I'm now running a 13w & 18W over it.


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Daemonfly said:


> Yeah, it's a jungle, but I kinda like that in this little tank. Stock lighting so far, but it's not good enough to reach to the back that well. I'll be putting in the 13w AHSupply kit in the next week or so.


I wouldn't call you on it, but your post is kinda what motivated me to attempt this setup w/out the upgrade.

Ian


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Update: new growth on the Lloydiella! I added DIY CO2 yesterday (A simple airstone and it's @ 20ppm), and today the plant is poking the surface.

This may just work.

Ian


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## Daemonfly (Oct 1, 2003)

Glad to hear. It's been frustrating, but I'm starting to think I just got some bad batches of Java Fern. They're still not growing, even after more lighting, CO2, etc... almost like they're in Limbo. Everything else has doubled or trippled in size, even java moss. I'm gonna see how things go with it back down to stock lighting. This Java fern batch seems to be a lost cause.

One thing about the tank, if I left the lid down, I'd get a lot of condensation, which, after it dried, would leave the bulb cover hazy . If the lid was left up, no condensation , but slightly more evaporation & a bit more filter noise escaping. Pick the lesser of two evils, I guess


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

The Java Fern is planted in the substrate, right? Maybe it would do better if you attached it to some driftwood? Or, maybe it's just a dwarf variety. 

When I open the lid, I smell CO2. I half believe that my high CO2 concentrations are related to the higher concentration in the space above the tank. I mean, how much CO2 could be diffused into the water from an airstone? It went from 5ppm to 20ppm.

Maybe I'll leave the lid open for a day and check the levels...

I found three straggly Crypt. petchii at my LFS a couple days ago. After re-orienting the wood, I placed them in the "nook". They already have improved. Here's a pic from last night:


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

What would everyone think of C. balansae instead of C. wendtii around the back/sides? Too sparse-looking? I'm thinking one (of either spp) to the left-rear of the wood (near Lloydiella), and two to the right-rear.

I still want to go with petite nana for the left foreground.

Ian


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Tank looks great. The wood is much better placed vertical like you now have it. Is it possible, however, turn the wood slightly clockwise? (Where the legs of the trunk are now at, say, four and seven o'clock—when looked at from above—, rotate the wood so that they would be pointed to five and eight.) I would also bury or hide the "cut" on the leg at the seven o'clock position in order to give it a more natural look.

Petite Nana's gonna look great in that tank. I saw a setup with a piece of driftwood very similar to yours in which the person grew Petite Nana all the way up the wood's side. It was awesome.

I can tell by the way you are planning that your tank is going to be really impressive when it "grows up."


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Thanks Ugly! I am not too sure about moving the driftwood now that the Crypts are in, because I'd have to replant them. Would I be running the risk of melt? BTW, if these were stressed by this planting, how long before they started melting?

I can't wait to get those nana. I'm going to buy them from Aquabotanic, but at $8.20 a plant, it's going to have to wait until after the holidays. :-(

I'm hoping the cut leg gets hidden by the Anubias. The wood is already buried 1", and I don't know if I can push it in another 1". I'll try though.

Thanks again!


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

Either of the crypts you mention will get too big for your tank. Balansae can easily reach 2 or more feet in length and it is not uncommon for Wendtii to reach cose to 16 inches and sometimes more.


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

George, you're raining on my parade! 

Ok, I'll nix the balansae idea, but, how long would it take wendtii (with the low-light), to become a problem? If we're talking 18 months, I can deal...

If we're talking ~3 months, can anyone recommend a smaller green Crypt for the rear border? I really like the balansae look...

Thanks,
Ian


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Tropica lists 5-10+ cm for wendtii. Is this inaccurate?

Ergh, it also shows petchii getting larger than wendtii. I am confused.

Anyway, other choices: walkeri, undulata... ?


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

Lutea typically only reaches 8 inches or so. I guess in low-light it is possible for Wendtii to stay lower.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

If you can handle a medium green-brown plant, Crypt undulata is another way to go. May be a little smaller than the C. lutea, a _little_ smaller.

You are looking for a tall, flowing plant like Crypt balansae, but on a smaller scale? Might want ot reconsider the vals.

MIke


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Momotaro said:


> If you can handle a medium green-brown plant, Crypt undulata is another way to go. May be a little smaller than the C. lutea, a _little_ smaller.


Question is, could the tank handle it? I'm thinking drab. But, I do like the way both of those species look... Decisions suck.



> You are looking for a tall, flowing plant like Crypt balansae, but on a smaller scale? Might want ot reconsider the vals.


With the balansaie, I was imagining spidery arches poking out. With the vals, I can only imagine (a) square tops from constant pruning, or (b) a "val-mat" blocking all light. I may just not be thinking of the right vals. What species did you have in mind?

BTW: thanks for the input, Mike, your opinion is definitely appreciated! 

What would *you* put behind he driftwood?

Ian


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

George Willms said:


> Lutea typically only reaches 8 inches or so. I guess in low-light it is possible for Wendtii to stay lower.


I've been looking at pics. There seems to be a lot of variation in lutea coloring. Is that environmental? It's a nice looking plant.

Regarding Crypt size, in terms of inches, are we talkng about leaf length or total height?


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## Thooshe (Dec 11, 2003)

I would place the wood so that it hides the heater, CO2 stone and intake. That is just my opinion though.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> What would *you* put behind he driftwood?


Well, lets see. 
The piece of wood is pretty big in that aquarium. I would probably place the wood in the rear right hand corner, as a tree stump. I would try and select smaller plants, or plants with smaller leaves for the most part.
Green plant _towards_ the front right corner. Sweep of Crypts from the left rear of the wood around to the front of the wood, stop about 1/4 of the way in front of the stump. Keep smallest Crypts in the nook. Big patch of Rotala indica in the left rear corner. Dwarf Sag in the foreground. 

Mike


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

I knew you were going to say something like that! "Just revamp the whole thing." :shock: 

I'll think about it. 8) 

Whether I start yanking things (Lloydiella), and moving/replanting things (Wood/Crypts), I do like the Dwarf Sag idea. I ruled them out at some point, but I don't remember why, so it must've been unimportant. What do you think of Sags intermingled with the brownish Crypts (in nook area)?

I really have my heart set on the petite nana, but, thinking about layout, they may be too small to provide an effective transition to the left corner. I take it you were thinking of mixed Crypts (the ones sweeping around the wood) for that transition?

Ian


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I like the idea of mixing the Crypts and the dwarf Sag a little. I think a slight overlap and mix of plants is much more interesting and more natural looking. Try not to plant in little squares too. That's not how plants grow in nature!

You are right, I was thinking about mixing the Crypts. The petite nana can work too, if you have your heart set on it. You may be able to find a small piece of wood to attach your Anubis to, or work the Anubis onto the big piece of wood! If you really want the plant, get it! :wink: You'll find some way to work it in!  

The 6G is a small aquarium, just the right size for playing around with. So is my 75G!  Experiment! Move things around! Have fun!

Mike


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Ok, I'm going to quit talking and start doing. I'll post some pics after the holiday.

Thanks, everyone, for the advice.

Ian


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Ok, this isn't pretty. I threw in a bunch of plants from my azgardens order yesterday. They definitely aren't in their final positions. I'll probably end up moving the sagittaria to the back right and most of the C. lutea to the left midground. I'm letting the Ludwigia and Lysimachia battle it out for that left corner. Hopefully one will thrive.

Species:
Lysimachia nummularia
Ludwigia repens
Sagittaria subulata (supposedly dwarf - not looking all that small to me)
C. beckettii v. petchii
C. beckettii
C. wendtii "red"
C. lutea
An old Anubias barteri v. nana

Endler's livebearers
C. panda
Otocinclus sp.


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

I really need to do some rescaping. Any ideas? The Ludwigia is alive, but not growing much, and the Lloydiella seems to be thinning out, so, I probably need a new background plant. Maybe more Crypts...

Ian


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