# The "Real" Low Tech/Low Light Plant List?



## Freemananana

You seem to have an unknown amount of light. Your struggle with plants could be that your light is way too low in fact. Anubias is one of the slowest growth plants I can think of actually and the fact that it is doing alright suggests that your lighting is very low. It is very common for anubias to grow algae in most tanks.


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## jcmv4792

Dwarf hairgrass is eleocharis parvula/belem/acicularis. Saggitaria subulata is dwarf saggitaria.


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## klibs

this is misleading

your setup seems to be unable to keep even the most simple plants alive... just because plants cannot survive in your setup should not mean that they are not 'low tech' plants. i believe low tech by definition is absence of CO2 supplementation and low-med light levels. Plenty of people even run quite a bit of light on their 'low tech' tanks...

if you want to have success growing plants you need to focus on... growing plants... having ultra low light / not dosing any ferts and expecting things to survive is simply not going to work out. saying 1 or 2 plants can withstand these conditions is not helpful IMO

AKA... the hobby should not be misled to thinking that java fern / crypts are not some of the absolute easiest plants to keep alive in 'low tech' setup... (they are)


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## johnson18

I hate to be the a-hole that just reinforces the trend of the previous comments, but just because you cannot and/or struggle to keep a plant species alive doesn't mean that it's not an easy plant to grow. I've killed my fair share of easy plants. This hobby has a definite learning curve. Perhaps there are some things that can be done to help you grow plants a little more effectively! 

I'd guess your light isn't enough. Just because it lights up nicely to the human eye doesn't mean it does anything for plants. What light are you using? What's your photoperiod like? 

Many of the plants that do well in low light still need some sort of fertilization. Have you considered root tabs for things like the Crypts, Vals & swords? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ambe

I have known for a long time that my lighting isn't sufficient. The list wasn't me asking for help, it was more to point out that the description "low light plants" can be deceptive to newbies - of which I was one back then.

The soil I used should have been good for some time, so it is definitely down to the lighting. It was just kind of a heads up to anyone new to the hobby and taking "low light" as literal. The few I have listed that survive, should be bomb proof!

One bonus is that I have never had any kind of algae.

Sorry if I annoyed.


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## Freemananana

No worries. Low light and viewing light are vastly different though.


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## klibs

my comment was more or less questioning the semantics of the title of this thread. it by nature suggests that other lists of low light plants are 'incorrect' or not 'real' which is an incorrect assumption IMO. if the thread was called 'the most indestructible plants' it would make a lot more sense. people usually do not read between the lines... they see the title, then read your list of plants immediately after

i'm not annoyed by any means, just do not want users to be confused and think some of the plants you listed are difficult to grow in traditional 'low tech' setups

if you have soil you could bump up your lighting a bit and heavy root feeders should start killing it. crypts, swords, etc do excellent in soil. a sure sign that light is simply too low is when plants like mosses begin to grow wispy... as an example, my 20g has VERY low light but it is intended to be run this way. the moss in there grows wispy at times but I am OK with this and accept that most plants would rot over time due to how low the light levels are. low light = MINIMAL algae issues (yay) which I think you and I can both agree and can appreciate is a blessing of lower light levels 

are you still working with this tank? i would be interested to see how your results differ if you put a bit more light in there. I think you would have great success with all of those plants especially given your soil setup. if your DHG is not dead (probably because of the soil!) it might even start to spread for you. DHG LOVES soil. one of the best (if not the best) carpet plants for non-co2 setups

Most indestructible plants IMO:
anubias (all)
mosses (i have owned xmas, fissidens)
java ferns (i have had best results with narrow or needle varieties)
crypt species


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## Oso Polar

Given the fact that even java fern and moss are slowly dying and "my water is very soft" statement, I wonder, *how* soft is your water? If water hardness is about 2 dGH or lower then many, many plants will die (or grow extremely bad) because of lack of Ca & Mg. It may have nothing to do with light at all.


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## ambe

May I explain in more detail where I am coming from.

Cost has always been a limiting factor for me. When I set up my tank, I was a complete newbie and had zero knowledge about fish keeping. It was a huge learning curve and turned out to be more expensive than I had ever imagined.

I got a 30L second-hand tank with no lid, so I made a lid and fixed this ebay led light to it. I filled the tank with gravel, then began to see all these amazing aquascapes and found that I needed soil to grow anything. I considered the cost, but decided that live plants would be cool, so I took the plunge, got some soil, took out the gravel and put in the soil as a base. The more I read about live plants (at the same time as I was learning about cycling and all the different fish) I found that you needed decent light and CO2, but there were some plants listed for low light and no CO2, so I thought I would be ok.

I added my first fish and most of my concerns were on the fish - would they be ok etc. They were, and the bug had bitten and I wanted a bigger tank almost immediately. The cost again was a pain - the tank, a bigger heater, a new light etc. I got the tank custom made cheaply to fit where I wanted it. It's 30 long, 15 wide, 12 high. I couldn't afford it with a lid and light, so made my own again and got another ebay led to fix to it. I added soil and this time covered it with sand because I wanted to add some corys.

As time went on and I had cracked how to keep fish, I moved towards plants more and began to question why most of them were not surviving - after all, they were listed as low light and no CO2. I checked my light and it is a total of 3.6w - LOL. But decent lighting is prohibitive by its cost to me - especially in the UK, where everything seems to be more expensive.

So experience is the key to these things and I still believe that the term "low light" is misleading to a complete novice.

To answer Oso Polar, my GH is 4.


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## roadmaster

My own experience with low tech,lower light,NON CO2 is that it might take a month or two for some plant's to adapt from emmersed growth (leaves above water), to completely submerged growth and is not uncommon for plant's to shed most or all of their leaves.
Would not be so quick to condemn the plants after a few week's as stated.
Believe the lighting at 3.6 watts total (not per gal), is wanting badly for anything else but anubia,mosses.
Realize watt's per gal is not much used anymore but is good ball park range IMHO


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## ambe

roadmaster said:


> Believe the lighting at 3.6 watts total (not per gal), is wanting badly for anything else but anubia,mosses.
> Realize watt's per gal is not much used anymore but is good ball park range IMHO


What would you consider to be the minimum lighting for low light plants? Also, does the lighting have to be plant specific and not just any old led? At least the height of my tank is only 12 inches so this could help if I were to upgrade?


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## roadmaster

35 PAR at substrate would be minimum in my view for low light plant's.
One T8 32 watt bulb would be increase in PAR over what you presently have at 12 inches.

P.S. Can't remember length of your tank, but seems the last 30 inch long tank I ran, I could only find T8 bulbs 24 inches long.
Would not be an issue with low light plant's, but corner's of the tank would be less light than middle of tank .
As for LED suitable light,I cannot offer much help for I only have two such fixtures in much deeper tank's than the 12 inches you have.


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## BettaBettas

ambe said:


> What would you consider to be the minimum lighting for low light plants? Also, does the lighting have to be plant specific and not just any old led? At least the height of my tank is only 12 inches so this could help if I were to upgrade?


If you still have to ask these questions I don't think you should have made this list...
But hey I guess it leaves room for improvement...


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## ambe

BettaBettas said:


> If you still have to ask these questions I don't think you should have made this list...
> But hey I guess it leaves room for improvement...


My (originally, bit of fun) list was by a complete novice guided by the term "low light plants". I have explained this more than once since the outbreak of hate!

I think there could other newbies like me who are confused when their "low light" plants die because they are not actually "low light" - that being a light that lights up your tank is NOT ENOUGH for "low light plants". I hope that my list at least helps them and clears up some confusion. "Low light plants" are actually "MEDIUM LIGHT plants".

The list was certainly not intended to help "experts" with a hint of snobbery about them :wink2:


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## Bananableps

ambe said:


> My (originally, bit of fun) list was by a complete novice guided by the term "low light plants". I have explained this more than once since the outbreak of hate!
> 
> The list was certainly not intended to help "experts" with a hint of snobbery about them :wink2:


I think it's the title that we have an issue with. Your thread pretty explicitly calls out the stickied "Low Light Plants" thread in this subforum. Someone with a lot of experience and knowledge put that thread together, and it has helped a lot of people who are new to the hobby. You can't criticize that thread and then get in a huff when people respond with counter-critique. For the record, I don't think anyone here has said anything that resembles a personal attack: you have been given concrete, well-reasoned rebuttals of your list and the way you presented it. Consider forming a thicker skin before telling experts that they are wrong about something.


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## jr125

Light level can be a totally subjective thing. What is described as low light by me might be something else to others. Maybe better terms are "not enough light" or "too much light". In any case it depends on a lot of other things like depth of tank, how high the light is above tank, covers on tank etc. Trying to categorize plants and fish on lists is usually going to result in some dissent. Maybe it's enough for us to realize some plants can get by with less light than others. I think some were merely trying to point out that the level of light you have may or may not be your problem. There are soooo many variables.


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## BettaBettas

ambe said:


> My (originally, bit of fun) list was by a complete novice guided by the term "low light plants". I have explained this more than once since the outbreak of hate!
> 
> I think there could other newbies like me who are confused when their "low light" plants die because they are not actually "low light" - that being a light that lights up your tank is NOT ENOUGH for "low light plants". I hope that my list at least helps them and clears up some confusion. "Low light plants" are actually "MEDIUM LIGHT plants".
> 
> The list was certainly not intended to help "experts" with a hint of snobbery about them :wink2:


Also something I just thought of, that you probably have an answer to. In the list you said some plants melted, rotted, etc This isn't all just from low light, I mean it doesn't help the plant, but deficiency's are also some causes of these sometimes... another downgrade of this list... which im currently leaning towards it as false information.


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## ambe

Bananableps said:


> I think it's the title that we have an issue with. Your thread pretty explicitly calls out the stickied "Low Light Plants" thread in this subforum. Someone with a lot of experience and knowledge put that thread together, and it has helped a lot of people who are new to the hobby.


Ok this is getting out of hand! I honestly did not think for one moment that the title of my post, or the post itself was insulting anyone, or being personal. I genuinely apologise. It was meant to be a light-hearted post about my "unfortunate journey". I even used the words "give you a laugh" in the post. I will rename the thread as it has obviously caused much offence.



Bananableps said:


> You can't criticize that thread and then get in a huff when people respond with counter-critique. For the record, I don't think anyone here has said anything that resembles a personal attack:


I felt that one poster became personal.



Bananableps said:


> you have been given concrete, well-reasoned rebuttals of your list and the way you presented it. Consider forming a thicker skin before telling experts that they are wrong about something.


I have explained that I now know that my lighting is inadequate, something that you guys picked up on straight away. I was never arguing about this point. I was simply stating that the term "low light" can be misleading. Or shall I change that, and say it was misleading to me when I started out. Only me ok.



BettaBettas said:


> Also something I just thought of, that you probably have an answer to. In the list you said some plants melted, rotted, etc This isn't all just from low light, I mean it doesn't help the plant, but deficiency's are also some causes of these sometimes... another downgrade of this list... which im currently leaning towards it as false information.


I can assure you that the list is genuine. You could be correct in that there are more problems going on than just light. I am taken aback that you would think I would falsify this list. I only joined up to ask about shrimp keeping and then thought about my plant problems and.... we know what happened then.

Sorry, I can't find a way to change the title. Perhaps someone can change it for me or delete the thread.


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## diverjoe

I am a bit taken aback at the tone of many of the posts directed at the OP. I would would encourage everyone to consider being reading any post more than once before writing anything harsh. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## redavalanche

I'm outraged and my angelfish is gettin mad. :smile2:


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## ambe

I had no problem over at Shrimp & Other Invertebrates. I should have stayed there lol.


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## MtAnimals

I think the humorous aspect may have been lost to most folks.Most of my jokes don't seem to work either.

Perhaps because this hobby can be so frustrating at times...


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## Beer

The problem with the lighting may be that it is not the correct spectrum. Not all LEDs are built the same. You may not be putting out sufficient energy in the spectra needed for photosynthesis to occur at a high enough rate for these plants to thrive or in some cases, survive.

Also, not all of those plants are root feeders, so you may not be getting sufficient nutrients to all of the plants.

You can try supplementing with some daylight compact flourescents (Kelvin rating of 5000k-6500k). You can pick up some cheap clip on fictures with aluminum reflectors at the hardware store (or use a fixture that you have laying around or from freecycle, etc.) This isn't the most ideal solution, or the most elegant, but it will work or at least let you experiment and see what a shift in light spectrum and intensity will do for you and if you want to invest in a more expensive lighting system, or at least wait until a good deal comes around. You can even play woth some lower Kelvin rating bulbs if you wanted (not necessary and wasting cash, but it isn't that much so you could play if you wanted).

This is also a good time for aquarium club auctions. You can usually find cheap fixtures and bulbs (look for ones specifically geared towards growing plants. It needs to specifically say that it is for growing plants, some have plants on it and elude to growing plants, but will kill the plants while encouraging nuciance algae).

I've had a bunch of tanks that were nothing more than a T8 plant bulb or a daylight compact flourescent of some sort, tons of plants, and fish with twice weekly dosing of Flourish micro nutrients, bi-weekly water changes with some macros to make up for the drop in nutrients, and occasionally DIY CO2. If there are plenty of plants to outcompete the algae for nutrients, the algae will lose the battle. CO2 is not necessary, but speeds up growth (and requires more maintenance), which can be convienent for more artfully scaped tanks with higher light, but may be overkill for tanks that are densly planted. Look into Dutch style planted tanks. You don't need to plant quite that dense, but with a bit more lighting in the proper spectrum and dosing a little bit of ferts to the water column, they can be relatively low maintenance.


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## Jmcdaniel0

I am a complete newbie when it comes to planted tanks. I have, however, been dealing with salt water reef tanks for years, If you want to talk about picky Lighting choices man oh man) SO I had some sort of heads up before I got started. I can certainly see why the term low light, could be misleading.


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## BettaBettas

I feel like this thread went like this


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## FishRFriendz

Yah, I mean the first post was not so serious imo. Like this died, and that died, and all holy list of death and decay and withered away...

Then everyone jumped in with constructive 'serious' criticism.



ambe said:


> Cost has always been a limiting factor for me. When I set up my tank, I was a complete newbie and had zero knowledge about fish keeping. It was a huge learning curve and turned out to be more expensive than I had ever imagined.


Aquariums aren't so bad. You should get into Photography... and then *Aquarium Photography*. Man I need a set of FF macro lenses now.


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## RyRob

A LOT MORE goes into a planted tank than just photosynthesis, nutrition, and respiration (lights, ferts, co2). 

Many things need to be considered before one can make an assumption, even based off ones own observations. In the subject of planted tanks, the source water needs to be identified before any amount of assumptions are calculated as facts. By this, I mean what is in the water to develop the TDS (total disabled solids). Without knowing this, all results are skewed and one may get the assumption that light intensity (or co2, ferts, water flow, turn over, photoperiod, substrate, fish selection, dissolved natural organics, salinity, or any other factor for that matter) is the cause of what they are observing. 

Let's not forget the other observations the you and the community have made. 

1) Very soft water. Many very successful planted tank enthusiasts include a GH booster into their dosing and water change routine. Preventing the water from becoming to soft and instilling stability within the water chemistry. 

2) Proven low light plants not surviving in your tank. You say your fixture is 3.5 wpg. Even though wpg is used for "outdated" tech, it can still be roughly used as a rudimentary guideline. This becomes extensively more difficult to use when we factor in LEDs. All LEDs are NOT created equal. 

3) Soil substrate. Just like LEDs, all soil is not created equal as well. Soil needs to be broken down biochemically before you use it usually by soaking and letting it dry out completely 2-3 times taking a week or so to do, depending on how fast the soil can naturally dry. It is possible that your soil is leaching something into the water column further altering the water chemistry. 

4) Plant source. You never mentioned how and where your plants came from. This can make a tremendous difference in how well a plant acclimates and how further growth is affected. If the plant was purchased emersed, it will have to put a lot of energy into transitioning from emersed to submerged. If the water chemistry isn't "correct" to begin with, the plant is subject to even more stress because it's not renewing much if any energy. Instead of putting energy towards growing, it's focusing that energy on dieing (which is a good reason to flower in an attempt to preserve its genetic information for future generations). Not saying this is why your anubias flowers, but degeneration can and does induce flowering in many plants. 

Purchasing plants that are already accustomed to submerged life have a significantly higher chance of surviving and striving because the only energy they have to focus on is changing to your tank chemistry. However, like has already been mentioned, if your tank chemistry isn't "good enough" the plant slowly struggles and eventually gives up.

In me experience, hygrophilla difformis (water wisteria) is practically immortal. Broken leaf segments left floating will sprout roots regardless of light intensity or co2. My water is extremely hard though (TDS are 1000+ out of the tap, yes...1000+). I have an abundance of Ca/Mg. Which can bring problems with plants also if you don't keep up on water changes. 

5) Tank/plant husbandry. If one just shoves a bunch of plants in the substrate and expect them to grow and flourish without much to any involvement from the tank owner, problems will and do arise. You haven't really mentioned what you have done to try and improve your tank chemistry to improve plant health. You've pretty much watched a bunch of relatively easy plants slowly die and deduced it to inadequate lighting, which is a contributing factor, but that isn't the whole problem. 



Purchase some test kits and see where your water stands at a molecular level and go from there. Improve the quality of your water to make it suitable for aquatic plants then worry about if you have adequate lights. Then get adequate lights. Could be a 13-26w CFL bulb or T5's or better LEDs. 

I think you just jumped the gun on assuming plants labeled low light are misleading. With all due respect, your tank is the one being misleading.

I wouldn't view the responses you've gotten as negative. Its just that more knowledgeable people in this hobby are giving you invaluable information I believe you are taking as them being condescending. Believe me, on this forum, condescendence isn't a goal for anyone here until they are met with condescendence themselves. People are merely trying to help you out. Emotional intention can get misinterpreted through text but for the most part people here don't bother themselves with being a#+holes to newbies. Relax and focus on your tank. When someone tells you something you don't necessarily want to hear, that doesn't make their information invalid. A lot of people have different views that work for them but there are certain things that work for everyone. Planted tanks are no exception. 

People learn new things in this hobby everyday, I try to be one of those people.


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## FishRFriendz

Yah, I mean the first post was not so serious imo. Like this died, and that died, and all holy list of death and decay and withered away...

Then everyone jumped in with constructive 'serious' criticism.



ambe said:


> Cost has always been a limiting factor for me. When I set up my tank, I was a complete newbie and had zero knowledge about fish keeping. It was a huge learning curve and turned out to be more expensive than I had ever imagined.


Aquariums aren't so bad. You should get into Photography... and then *Aquarium Photography*. Man I need a set of FF macro lenses now.


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## BettaBettas

RyRob said:


> A LOT MORE goes into a planted tank than just photosynthesis, nutrition, and respiration (lights, ferts, co2).


 Blast of knowledge right here. you go person! 0


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## Beer

RyRob said:


> ...... TDS (total disabled solids)..... My water is extremly hard though (TDS are over 100+ out of the tap.....


Man, that is pretty high. What level does it become total disabled solids? Lower levels are total dissolved solids, but at some point the water becomes too thick for fish to swim and plant leaves bend and break under the weight of the water, changing the measurement description. I have never been able to find what this level this begins to occur at, but you are clearly over that.


(sorry, couldn't help it. Got to love auto correct)


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## ambe

Hi guys thanks for more advice so I'm rolling with it!

Here is a total breakdown of my tank. It is 30 long, 15 wide, 12 high and 20 US gallons:

LIGHTING:
Led light strip - 3.6 watts TOTAL not per gallon.

SOIL "Dennerle NutriBasis 6 in 1" (now 10 months old):
a) Concentrated nutrient iron in depot form ensures rich green leaves.
b) High-quality quartz sand creates the optimum substrate climate.
c) Selected clay minerals, in particular high-quality montmorillonite, regulate the balance of nutrients: They release nutrients when needed and absorb them when there is a surplus.
d) Humus-rich natural peat creates a slightly acidic substrate environment with the optimum pH value and releases nutrients to the plants appropriately.
e) All nutrients and trace elements are in depot form with immediate and lasting effects.

SAND:
Cheap inert sand.

WATER PARAMETERS:
KH 2
GH 4
PH 7.5
NH3 0
NO2 0
NO3 20
TDS 108 (current measurement - 50% water change and vac 6 days ago)

FILTRATION:
2 cheap sponges driven by air pump.

PLANTS BOUGHT:
Were emersed not submersed.

ANIMALS:
10 rasboras
10 tetras
4 corys
1 oto
2 ADF
20+ Malaysian trumpet snails (these have got out of hand at times and have DEFINITELY BEEN ON PLANTS AND ROOTS).
NB: The tank is on the high side of stocking but I have had no problems.

OTHER STUFF:
Rocks
Bog wood
Beech Leaves

MAINTAINENCE:
50% water change every 2 weeks with thorough vac. For first 6 months I did this weekly - possible removal of useful nutrients?
Constant removal of dying leaves :wink2:
Because stocking is quite high I do keep it as clean as possible.

CURRENT PLANS (comments appreciated):
Get some root tabs
Get something to dose water column
Think about new light but too expensive at the moment. Any comments on THIS ONE? Yep, I know it's at the cheap end but money is tight lol.

CURRENT PHOTO - sorry my camera is not great in low light (no pun intended). I hope that in a few months the updated pic will be lush and green and full of plants. :laugh2:


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## roadmaster

Well the moss on the wood appears to be going brown, for it receives it's nutrient's primarily from the water, so something as simple as flourish comprehensive twice a week would benefit it and the other plant's as well.
Root tab's for under the sword plant's and or crypt's would also be helpful.
Your getting the idea.
P.S. Easy on the root tab's.


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## ID jit

embe.
Thanks for the thread. You just saved me a boatload of grief, pain and agony.


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## FishRFriendz

roadmaster said:


> Well the moss on the wood appears to be going brown, for it receives it's nutrient's primarily from the water


I've given up on any ferts in my moss growing machine. I'm convinced the only thing java moss wants is TONS and TONS of light and well aerated moving water.

The browning moss is due to the 3.6w total lighting, and the depth of that tank.


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## ambe

ID jit said:


> embe.
> Thanks for the thread. You just saved me a boatload of grief, pain and agony.


Hey, don't give up before you start! I just happened to sorely underestimate the amount of light these low light plants need.



FishRFriendz said:


> I'm convinced the only thing java moss wants is TONS and TONS of light and well aerated moving water.


Very interesting thanks. Lovely moss by the way. More or less proves that the single best thing I can do, is to get a better light before messing around with ferts etc.


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## FishRFriendz

ambe said:


> Hey, don't give up before you start! I just happened to sorely underestimate the amount of light these low light plants need.


Some low light plants are more low light than others :wink2:

Moss amazingly is quite demanding for light.


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## ID jit

ambe said:


> Hey, don't give up before you start! I just happened to sorely underestimate the amount of light these low light plants need.


Haven't given up yet, just rethinking the whole thing.


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## FishRFriendz

ambe said:


> More or less proves that the single best thing I can do, is to get a better light before messing around with ferts etc.


Moss is great as a beginner plant, not because it can handle low light, but because beginners don't have to hassle with balancing fertilizers and changing water to reset their nutrients so they can dose safely without any one specific nutrient reaching excessive high levels because they can't balance every individual element.

What's harder? Balancing Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphate, Iron, and a slew of micro nutrients, substrates(freakin HUGE subject).

Or buying a as powerful light as you can afford? 

I'm also thinking floaters are a good beginner plant because they'll pull out of the air which you don't need to maintain lol. Heck air is 78% nitrogen, and some small amount CO2.


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## ambe

I think I've found the perfect light, been reading about leds and stuff. Needs some red some blue some daylight at different strengths etc. Only problem is that it's £60 and my cash is going into setting up a shrimp tank at the moment, so this light is gonna have to wait lol. At least the fish are happy and that's the main thing.


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## NickAu

Have a look at my low tech tank, Thats the actual light level in the tank, It might give you some ideas.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...my-2-foot-low-tech-jungle-betta-sorority.html


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## Jmcdaniel0

ambe said:


> I think I've found the perfect light, been reading about leds and stuff. Needs some red some blue some daylight at different strengths etc. Only problem is that it's £60 and my cash is going into setting up a shrimp tank at the moment, so this light is gonna have to wait lol. At least the fish are happy and that's the main thing.



I cant recommend this light enough
[Ebay Link Removed] DA 6500K LED Aquarium Light 0.50W Freshwater Plant 24 30 36 48 72 | eBay[/url]

I have two on my 40B and they are excellent.


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## ambe

Jmcdaniel0 said:


> I cant recommend this light enough
> [Ebay Link Removed] DA 6500K LED Aquarium Light 0.50W Freshwater Plant 24 30 36 48 72 | eBay[/url]
> 
> I have two on my 40B and they are excellent.


Unfortunately your link didn't come through, but I think it's a beamswork? There is a similar light available in the UK and I did consider it because it's 30% cheaper.


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## NickAu

Now you see what 6 watts no ferts, no vacuuming of gravel can do, I add Indian Almond Leaf to my tank and do not remove it, I leave it to rot in the tank, 


Using Indian almond leaves in aquariums

Bump: PS

This is my big tankhttp://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9971290-post108.html

And before you ask, No ferts


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## Jmcdaniel0

ambe said:


> Unfortunately your link didn't come through, but I think it's a beamswork? There is a similar light available in the UK and I did consider it because it's 30% cheaper.



It is a Beams WOrk. I forgot Ebay links cant be posted here.


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## ambe

NickAu said:


> Now you see what 6 watts no ferts, no vacuuming of gravel can do, I add Indian Almond Leaf to my tank and do not remove it, I leave it to rot in the tank,
> 
> 
> Using Indian almond leaves in aquariums
> 
> Bump: PS
> 
> This is my big tankhttp://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9971290-post108.html
> 
> And before you ask, No ferts


I have had indian almond leaves in the tank and left them to rot, but what I did was remove what was left of the leaves to vac. I'd vac the entire substrate and then put the leaves back to carry on rotting. At the moment I have beech leaves and do just the same. So, another of my problems could be that I am being too clean. The reason I got so fussy was because I read that corys needed clean sand! What is your water hardness just out of interest?


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## NickAu

> What is your water hardness just out of interest?


No idea, I have never tested it, My local aquarium shop once told me the water was moderately soft if I remember right it was 5 or 6 GDH.

I do however know that its too soft for guppies and mystery snails, Without extra calcium in their diet the snails suffer shell erosion, and guppies just die after a few months, However the Red Cherry Shrimp breed faster than pest snails.


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