# Struggling with Brown Diatoms



## kevmo911

Unless you have very sensitive fish or inverts, you can go well beyond the 30ppm that lime green indicates. In addition, if what you have is truly diatom algae, a bunch of otocinclus should fix it.


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## Golightly

kevmo911 said:


> Unless you have very sensitive fish or inverts, you can go well beyond the 30ppm that lime green indicates. In addition, if what you have is truly diatom algae, a bunch of otocinclus should fix it.


CO drop checker is lime green, PH lowered by at least a whole point, probably more (from around PH7.00 to PH6.00).

I do have 4 Oto's but they can't handle it all. I'm pretty sure it's diatoms. Very brown, quite slimy but easy to clean off. I just have to take out the rocks and brush them. It's the same of stuff I get on the glass, inside all my equipment, hoses, inline heater etc. 

When I first started out with a planted tank I experienced pretty much all types of algae, from GSA to Thread/hair algae.


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## gomesj

It is self limiting. It will go away in time. Ottos and and good filter maintenance, water changes, lower light and duration initially, and use carbon pad in the beginning


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## ashes2ashes

How long do you let the diatoms stay before you tear down and start over? I have never started a new tank and not had diatoms for quite a while, but eventually they do go away on their own. My Nerite snails were always able to handle the maintenance in between, but all my tanks are 55g and below, so nothing too huge. 
If I had to guess, I would say you are experiencing new tank syndrome over and over again from tearing it down and starting over. Your best bet would probably be to just let it run it's course. It will get ugly, but it's worth it in the end.


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## Golightly

I would have agreed about "new tank syndrome" but it's not really a new tank. I use a mature filter, always have 0 ammonia reading etc. Nothing new as such. It's just that I clear out the tank. Give the glass and stones a good clean. Then put it back. I also keep all the good plants but getting new if too many are badly affected and can't be trimmed.

I also clean the filter weekly, 40% water change weekly.

I use Purigen, but could try carbon I guess but didn't think that had any effect on diatoms.


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## ashes2ashes

A lot of my tanks that go through the diatom process are not "new" they are just new to me, and the diatoms don't ever come until right when my cycle is complete and my ammo is at 0ppm. I don't know why when your tank is freshly cycled it happens, but that's how it seems to work for me. I would still just let them play themselves out. I've not yet seen a case of diatoms that wouldn't eventually go away on their own. They just talk a while and look horrid in the process lol. Good luck with your tank. =)


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## Golightly

I hope so, but it's been going on for a rather long time.

By the way, I've used Cladophora aegagropila (algae balls) in this tank layout quite a lot, both for looks but also hoping they can help combating other types of algae.. could just be a totally harebrained idea of mine though.


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## ashes2ashes

Hmm. I don't know anything about algae balls. I've actually not heard of them lol. If I'm not mistake though, Diatoms are not a true algae and so if it is something that kills algae they may have no affect on them. I don't really know though. Someone with experience with them will have to weigh in on that one.


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## Golightly

They are very neat:

http://www.tropica.com/plants/plantdescription.aspx?pid=000C

But I've cut them in pieces and tied down on stones like green cushions.


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## ashes2ashes

Ohhhhh! It's a Marimo ball lol! I don't know why that didn't occur to me when you said "algae ball". I was thinking of some plastic ball that was supposed to capture algae or something haha. I have a lot of Marimo balls. I love them. Sometimes I can be a bit dense ha..


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## DarkCobra

Golightly said:


> Now I know a lot of people are saying that Silicates have nothing todo with Diatoms but even so..


I'm not one of these people. I've seen some compelling evidence that sometimes silicates can be high enough to cause diatom blooms that never go away. Saltwater hobbyists even deliberately add sodium silicate, to create controlled diatom blooms as food for their critters.

Rocks, gravel, and sand usually release an initial burst of silicates, which tapers off with time; leading to "new tank" diatoms. If you reuse these from a previous tank, even if dried and let sit for months or years, the initial diatom bloom is typically smaller or even absent.

Of course, a poor tank setup, sudden changes, or overfeeding can also induce and extend diatom blooms.

But even if none of the above are a factor, if you have a continuous source of high silicates, the diatoms will just hang around.

You already know about the silicates in your water, which you've reduced by using 50% RO water. And reduced the overall amount of diatoms in the process. Where are they still growing? On the rocks. They're releasing additional silicates, and between that and the silicates in your remaining tapwater, it's enough to trigger a limited bloom at the point where concentration is highest.

If you go to 75-100% RO, it may be enough to keep the silicates from your rocks from being an issue. Or you might get rid of the rocks. Or use an adsorbing resin, though this will adsorb phosphates as well.


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## VeeSe

I think my tap water has 9 or 10ppm silicates and I haven't had a huge problem with the diatom bloom... sure it was really bad when the tank just started out.... it was over everything imagineable.... but it no longer is. Takes a few weeks to grow on the glass and start covering it, but doesn't touch the plants or substrate any longer.


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## Golightly

DarkCobra said:


> I'm not one of these people. I've seen some compelling evidence that sometimes silicates can be high enough to cause diatom blooms that never go away. Saltwater hobbyists even deliberately add sodium silicate, to create controlled diatom blooms as food for their critters.
> 
> You already know about the silicates in your water, which you've reduced by using 50% RO water. And reduced the overall amount of diatoms in the process. Where are they still growing? On the rocks. They're releasing additional silicates, and between that and the silicates in your remaining tapwater, it's enough to trigger a limited bloom at the point where concentration is highest.
> 
> If you go to 75-100% RO, it may be enough to keep the silicates from your rocks from being an issue. Or you might get rid of the rocks. Or use an adsorbing resin, though this will adsorb phosphates as well.





VeeSe said:


> I think my tap water has 9 or 10ppm silicates and I haven't had a huge problem with the diatom bloom... sure it was really bad when the tank just started out.... it was over everything imagineable.... but it no longer is. Takes a few weeks to grow on the glass and start covering it, but doesn't touch the plants or substrate any longer.


Yes, I've measured silicates in my tap water and it's off the chart. Even after passing it through a RO unit it's still got 0.8ppm. But maybe it's a combination then as you mentioned the tap water + rocks + sand = diatoms. Maybe the tap water on it's own would be ok but all of then together is enough to tip the weight and cause the diatoms.

Diatoms are now with 50% RO water only on the rocks. Hardly anything on the glass and none on the sand. In previous setups I've had it on the stem plants too but not sure this time yet, too early to say. But on the rocks you really notice it (It's ADA Manten Stone, no idea what that really is). 

I'm going to try and lower my light to PAR 30 (Lowering the light to PAR40 really helped a lot), plus using 2/3 RO water and see how that goes. .


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## jptan

VeeSe said:


> I think my tap water has 9 or 10ppm silicates and I haven't had a huge problem with the diatom bloom... sure it was really bad when the tank just started out.... it was over everything imagineable.... but it no longer is. Takes a few weeks to grow on the glass and start covering it, but doesn't touch the plants or substrate any longer.


How long until it went away? I've had it forever and I have had the tank for a year and a half now.


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## SloMo

jptan said:


> How long until it went away? I've had it forever and I have had the tank for a year and a half now.


I'm having the same type of diatom issue. Tank has been cycling for about a month.


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## sdwindansea

SloMo said:


> I'm having the same type of diatom issue. Tank has been cycling for about a month.


Welcome to the club although I do not believe it is very exclusive. Manually remove it as much as possible. I'm still working through it. When it was at its worse, I would rub it off of every leaf that I could each day. I even removed all my stem plants twice and rinsed it off/replanted them. It appears like it has slowed down considerably for me and my tank is about 2 months old now.

For what it is worth I also read conflicting advice. Lower the photo-period/light intensity vs. raising it.


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## r-raid

just let it pass my man. it will go away soon


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## Beefyfish

Let it run through.

Every time I disturb my sand substrate I get diatoms. How bad depends on how much I messed with the sand.


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## klibs

all you have to do with new-tank diatoms is watch how intense your light levels are. if you are running overkill light (especially with that few plants) then you are obviously going to have issues controlling them. if you don't let them feed off of high light they will not take over your tank and are manageable.

if this means running lower light and waiting to put in demanding plants then just wait it out. IMO you should always start with an abundance of lower-light plants and then phase in the more demanding plants as your tank stabilizes. people immediately hit their tank with end-game PAR levels and usually run into issues. come home every day and spend an hour manually removing diatoms... not worth it... would rather not even bother... this level of diatom outbreak simply does not happen under lower light. many people DO start out with high light successfully but they are usually very good and have a lot of experience. IMO it is a lot easier to go slow

unlike other algae diatoms are not really controlled by healthy plant growth from what I have seen. they feed off of light and silicates (at least that's what people say). eventually they will consume the silicates and go away (again, that's what people say). your CO2 levels are irrelevant because you have like no plants anyways. i am not sure how other parameters affect diatoms... it is all about light intensity IMO

eventually they will stop being an issue like others have said... in the meantime don't make it hard on yourself


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