# Can ich go away without treatment?



## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

To me, it's a no-brainer. Treat the tank again, and make sure you keep treating for a few weeks after visible signs are gone. Ich may be seen as a minor issue because we see if so often, but left untreated it can still very easily wipe out a tank. If you wait until things get bad, you have waited too long. It is better to be safe and treat the tank than to wait in my opinion.

Dave


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

x2 treat the tank now before it gets worse. 

When using salt treatment I treat for at least a week after the last visible sign. 

I think I linked you this before, but here's the ich article again; answers some of your questions: http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

malachite green a the recommended dosing levels will not kill shrimp


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

I have never had ich in my tanks,and concerning it's nature and frequency I have had to turn to forums and to publications.However,from my understanding,ich is present in all aquariums but the fish only become susceptible to it when they are experiencing stress.Poor water quality being the primary cause.Therefore,with good water quality,and a healthy diet,the ich should not return once you have eliminated it.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

What is it with all of the ich threads? It is like ich poped up all over the world overnight. Changes in temperature or something?


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## Spiritwind (Feb 2, 2008)

Ich must be treated. There isnt immunity exactly. Healthy fish are less prone to getting ich. If you have stressed fish it can lower their resistance. Ich has a life cycle of 4 days to 3 weeks, depending on temperature, higher temperature the shorter the cycle. Ich is not present in all aquariums. The myth is told because sometimes you cant see the ich, it might be on the fish gills and not seen. It can also be added to tanks through plants that come from infected tanks. The plants arent carriers like fish but if they are present during the stage that is infectious they can tag along with the plant.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> What is it with all of the ich threads? It is like ich poped up all over the world overnight. Changes in temperature or something?


That plus it's the time of year that fish shipments/imports are moving again...


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

Quick follow up question. Can the salt treatment be used without raising the temp above 86F? Or does it only work in conjunction with the temp?

The temp last time seems to have done a number on a few of my plants that I know prefer lower temperatures, so I was hoping to keep the temp to around 82F if possible and maybe try the salt treatment again.

Thanks,
Harry


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

The temperature only has to be 78 - 80 degrees for the salt to be effective,however I would at least raise it to 82 as soon as you can.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Ich is definitely not in all aquariums. Even if the fish have some kind of immunity, you will be able to see it at some point in the life cycle of the parasite.

Raising the temperature usually does not kill ich. It does stress the organism and causes the life cycle to speed up, forcing it into a vulnerable life stage where it becomes treatable with other things, like malachite green. 82 degrees is plenty warm.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Salt is effective with our without a temperature increase. However, raising the temp makes the ich move more quickly through their life cycles, and ich are only sensitive to salt during certain phases. 

Like Fish said, increasing the temps helps reduce the overall amount of time needed to treat the tank (which is good for the plants since they usually don't do well with salt).


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## Rev2eight (Jan 11, 2008)

I dont know if its just me, but it seems like whenever tetras get ich, it takes them much longer to get better. I had an outbreak where every fish was cured except the cardinals. Treatment ran for over a month until i finally gave up and just quarantined them and used rid ich+.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

> Ich is definitely not in all aquariums. Even if the fish have some kind of immunity, you will be able to see it at some point in the life cycle of the parasite.


OK,Ich is not in all aquariums,but if it is you won't necessarily see it at some point of it's life cycle if it does not have the opportunity to mature.Just about every aquarium fish will come into contact with this protozoan at several times in its life. Because it is so widespread, most fish have developed a good immune response against the disease to allow them to fight off the protozoan infection before it ever causes any symptoms.Unless the Ich protozoan,(Tomites) attaches itself to the fish there will be no problems.The protozoan must attach itself to the fish before it can continue the cycle to mature and become Trophozoites.After the Trophozoites mature in the flesh of the fish they become Trophonts (mature trophozoites) and leave the fish.They fall to the aquarium floor,and divide themselves into hundreds of Tomites and the cycle can repeat itself.


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## Spiritwind (Feb 2, 2008)

Just to be clear about this. If you have an aquarium ich free for a month, you will not get ich in it ever. It will only come from the outside at that point. If you add new fish, plants or aquarium decor that has had recent contact with ich. Ich doesnt lie dormant in wait in some aquariums.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

lescarpentier said:


> OK,Ich is not in all aquariums,but if it is you won't necessarily see it at some point of it's life cycle if it does not have the opportunity to mature.Just about every aquarium fish will come into contact with this protozoan at several times in its life. Because it is so widespread, most fish have developed a good immune response against the disease to allow them to fight off the protozoan infection before it ever causes any symptoms.Unless the Ich protozoan,(Tomites) attaches itself to the fish there will be no problems.The protozoan must attach itself to the fish before it can continue the cycle to mature and become Trophozoites.After the Trophozoites mature in the flesh of the fish they become Trophonts (mature trophozoites) and leave the fish.They fall to the aquarium floor,and divide themselves into hundreds of Tomites and the cycle can repeat itself.


I couldn't disagree more. If you have ich in your tank, you will see it ... period. This is a parasite that requires a willing, living host to complete its brief life cycle. The ich parasite has no dormant stage and cannot lie in wait for some magic trigger to become a problem. You either have ich in your tank or you do not. More to the point, if there are fish in a tank that are showing signs of an infection, you must treat the entire tank. I have seen fish acquire the parasite numerous times and would never assume that because they once lived through it they have now developed an immunity to the disease. If you follow good quarantine procedures, I would say that that majority of your fish will never be exposed to ich once, much less many times.

Dave


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Unless they've ever been exposed to the tanks used by importers... which IMO most of in the US probably have ich. Or go through tanks at LFSs, which again IME most of the time have ich... or have been through Florida, which most of the time IME have ich... 

I'm in FL. I'm almost NEVER able to buy commercial fish w/out ich. That's why I'm pretty good at treating it, unfortunately... I'm pretty jaded about it, ATM. It's quite a "coincidence" that FL is the source of most of the fish in the US hobby- either through the fish farms or through imports... (unless you're on the other coast- then things may be very different). Most of the South American fish in the hobby still are wild-caught and imported through Florida, however.

IDK what the actual percentage of fish in the US is that have been through FL, but I'm sure it's pretty high.

I've seen debate after debate about whether or not ich can lie dormant, and if so, for how long... I personally don't think it matters. There's actually multiple "strains" of ich, and I doubt anyone's actually bothered to test every single one... 

Either way- always quarantine new fish, at LEAST 2 weeks, and you should be OK. I QT MOST of my fish in propylactic salt and have never had an IDable disease or parasite in any of my main tanks since I got strict about it.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

DaveS said:


> I couldn't disagree more. If you have ich in your tank, you will see it ... period. This is a parasite that requires a willing, living host to complete its brief life cycle. The ich parasite has no dormant stage and cannot lie in wait for some magic trigger to become a problem. You either have ich in your tank or you do not. More to the point, if there are fish in a tank that are showing signs of an infection, you must treat the entire tank. I have seen fish acquire the parasite numerous times and would never assume that because they once lived through it they have now developed an immunity to the disease. If you follow good quarantine procedures, I would say that that majority of your fish will never be exposed to ich once, much less many times.
> 
> I couldn't disagree with you more,and your explanation defies logic and is contrary to reason.First off,I didn't write,or imply,that Ich lies dormant in a tank.Second,what kind of fish is "willing" to host a protozoan disease that may prove to be fatal.(I can't believe that you would write this)The affected fish are weakened and stressed for whatever reason which makes them vulnerable,and they are in no way willing recipients of this disease. Whenever you buy a new fish or plants you just may introduce some Tomites into your tank,but if your fish are healthy they probably won't find a host and will soon die without creating a problem.You mention good quarantine procedures,but most people do not have the luxury of a quarantine tank so a little water,(maybe some Tomites) from the lfs find their way into their tanks whenever they purchase plants or fish....Period!!


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## YankyTexan (Mar 8, 2008)

_"most people do not have the luxury of a quarantine tank"_ visiting a local garage sale and picking up a small used setup cost wise pales in comparison to how much money many people put into Co2 and lighting systems. Besides, convincing your spouse how adding another tank is beneficial it is a is alot easier to sell when pitched as a QT. If some of the inhabitants of the new tank (QT wink wink) never leave you'll have to come up with your own explanation. I'm still working on that one.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

YankyTexan said:


> _"most people do not have the luxury of a quarantine tank"_ visiting a local garage sale and picking up a small used setup cost wise pales in comparison to how much money many people put into Co2 and lighting systems. Besides, convincing your spouse how adding another tank is beneficial it is a is alot easier to sell when pitched as a QT. If some of the inhabitants of the new tank (QT wink wink) never leave you'll have to come up with your own explanation. I'm still working on that one.


You gained a little reputation over that idea.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Yeah, I guess "willing" probably wasn't the correct choice of words there. I don't actually think fish have much sense of will in any case.  

I didn't realize the argument was over introducing ich in bag water or on plants, and in that case I do agree that ich may not be able to gain a foothold in a healthy tank, although I have never been that fortunate. The couple of times I have introduced it to my tanks, nearly all fish were quickly infected whether they were healthy or not.


Dave


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