# Cycle troubles - No ammonia, high nitrites



## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

So this is the first time I've attempted a fishless cycle. I thought it would be relatively straight forward. I got the pure ammonia and seeded media and let it run in my 55 gallon. It started processing ammonia about a week and a half in, but I was wondering why it was taking so long to cycle over 2 weeks in, hovering at .25 nitrites. I realized I was putting too much ammonia in (3 tsp) about a week and a half ago, especially for how many fish I'd have. I reduced the amount to about 1.5tsp which was about 2-4ppm. Even that is pretty high. I waited over another week, ammonia was being processed quickly but nitrites remained at .25. I know a lot of people get frustrated with nitrite readings and I was trying to be patient.

I read somewhere I should do a water change, so I did a 40% change (ughh). I also added some plants and driftwood, so the substrate was stirred around a bit. I decided to add 1/2 a tsp of amm to keep the bacteria alive. I check the nitrites the next day (24 hours) and they are sky high 5ppm+, while ammonia is at 0. I decided not to add anymore ammonia. Today it's at 2 ppm nitrite which is still extremely high. Obviously I was playing around with the water too much and should have let it be, so there is a lot of regret there. I really wanted to put fish in which was my downfall. So I haven't added ammonia since Saturday night and it's now Wednesday. I really don't know what to do now. Nitrites are at 2ppm as I've stated before and I fear my bacteria is dying. Even if I got it cycled, I wouldn't be adding a ton of fish, so I imagine a lot of my bacteria will die anyway. I feel like this whole thing was a waste of time. Basically I want to know - Do I just continue with not adding ammonia? What could be going on with my cycle? Did my bacteria die when my filter was off during the water change?


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Alyssum said:


> I read somewhere I should do a water change, so I did a 40% change (ughh).


With a 55 gallon tank... get a tap-to-tank water changer (ie: python).. Lugging buckets is for fishbowls and nano-tanks IMO.

A 40% or even 90% water change should not cause you to go "ughh".. if it does, fix your setup. No matter how you run your tank, there are cases where big water changes become necessary, and that's not going to go away. EI folks change 50% every week....




Alyssum said:


> nitrites are at 2ppm as I've stated before and I fear my bacteria is dying. Even if I got it cycled, I wouldn't be adding a ton of fish, so I imagine a lot of my bacteria will die anyway. I feel like this whole thing was a waste of time. Basically I want to know - Do I just continue with not adding ammonia? What could be going on with my cycle? Did my bacteria die when my filter was off during the water change?


Nothing is wrong with your cycle... the nitrite stage takes much longer than the ammonia stage does.

First thing to realize is there are two different species of bacteria involved. I'm sure Diana will paste her cycle guide shortly with longer details, but in general...

One species is converting ammonia to nitrite. (nitrosomonas)
another species is converting nitrite to nitrate. (nitrospira, although nitrobacter is possible in some environments)

So the second species doesn't even start growing until the first one has converted ammonia to nitrite.. it also doesn't grow nearly as fast, so this stage starts later, and takes longer. Be patient.

I would start adding ammonia in small doses (ie: 0.25ppm)... just to keep the nitrosomonas active while you are waiting for the nitriospira to kick up. Keep an eye on the nitrite and do a change again if it goes over 5ppm. 

Do not let ammonia get over 1ppm at this stage, as this inhibits nitrospiria and slows down the second stage of cycling you are trying to get going at this point. If your ammonia isn't going down anymore, just leave it at .5ppm or whatever and that stage will get itself going again eventually.

Once your nitrites come down, ramp up ammonia slowly to 1ppm per day, making sure both zero out each day before adding more.

When it can consume all of that and zero it within 24 hours you're good, and ready for your near-total water change prior to adding fish.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

I meant "ughh" like why did I jump and listen to something I read so rashly? xD However, I plan on getting a pond pump. I was building my own python, but I didn't finish getting the parts so it took a bit longer than it should have. So just add a tiny bit of ammonia? I guess I was unsure if I put myself a step backward by changing the water because of the nitrite spike, considering it was so low before I did it (.25). I know they are two kinds of bacteria, that's why I didn't want to "starve" one out just so the other could catch up.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Yeah, I'd keep em on a diet, but I'd feed them a little bit.. 

The problem with feeding too much ammonia is that it will just jack the nitrites up really high again. 1ppm ammonia makes something like 2-3ppm of nitrite.

Just keep an eye on the ammonia level, if they aren't breaking it down, don't keep adding more. Also keep an eye on the nitrite level, if it is climbing fast, throttle back to every other day or something.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Okay thanks, I'll try that and see how it goes


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Cycle.htm: a page with two diagrams of the Nitrogen cycle, the second one of how long unasssisted cycling takes. I hope that one helps you visualize it better.


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

Ensure your KH is at least 4dg as this can stall the cycle


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Have you tested for nitrAtes?
You used some seeded media,you should have been good to go on a light load right away.
You won't kill starve bacteria in days.
They eventually start to "hibernate" but "revive " quicker then growing new.
I would stop the ammonia.
You may have just been dosing way more then the media ever had to convert.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Well four days later, nitrites are still high, 2-5ppm. I added ammonia twice (1/2 tsp) during this time (it gets converted very quickly). I have not tested for nitrates because I read I would get a skewed reading, but I can confirm I had nitrates weeks ago when I tested for it. I'll do a new test. I haven't done a KH test, but I can do one. I read if the nitrites are high it can stall the cycle as well as low potassium. Thoughts? I'm worried because I have some SAE on hold and the store will only hold for 7 days, but my tank still isn't ready after all this time  So frustrating! Should I do a large water change and cut the ammonia?


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

Alyssum, my guesses are: it seems to me that, there are nitrites but a lot, and there are nitrates, that the bacteria that oxidize from NO2 to NO3 haven't established themselves well enough to handle all the NO2 it's being handed. When and only when ammonia is 0 and nitrite is 0, do a big water change to cut down the nitrates to 30 or 40 ppm (You'll need to use a test kit). I definitely think that you should do a water change only after ammonia and nitrite are both 0.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Test for NO3 it will let you know the bacteria required to change NO2 to NO3 is present. Sounds like you are half way there though.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Agh I guess I messed it up when i did the water change, planted, and evened out the sand. It was staying at .25 for awhile, but just took 1step backward. So no more ammonia?


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## Verivus (Jan 6, 2015)

Keep adding ammonia. I kept my ammonia at 2-4 ppm throughout the entire cycle and my cycle finished just fine. If you stop adding ammonia for too long then the ammonia->nitrite bacteria will die.

As a side note, for water changes a cheap and easy DIY Python alternative is to buy a waterbed drain and fill kit ($6 Ebay) and a garden hose of whatever length you need. No additional parts required unless you want a metal adapter for the faucet. I just use the plastic one the kit came with.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Question - If I'm not allowed to change water, what do I do about my plants and adding ferts? I won't be able to change the water, so I assume I shouldn't keep adding it...I have some root tabs in the substrate, but I don't know if that's enough. I did try using a python, but it doesn't fit my sink. I bought a pond pump, it worked well enough.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Who said not to do water changes?

Also, imo it is horrible advice to dose. 2-4ppm of ammonia in the nitrite phase of cycling. 1ppm max. Ymmv, but most guides I've read suggest a trottle back to 1ppm. My first shot at fishless cycle crashed because I kept up at 4ppm.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Hmm, how big should the water changes be then? Someone said not to change until amm and nitrite are at 0. I'm afraid to add more ammonia anyway because the nitrifying bacteria seem to be struggling at the moment to keep up, even with small amounts.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

Who says to do water changes?

When I started my tank, everything the guys with experience and everything I read said to let the tank cycle, then do a big water change. They also said specifically that you can plant plants starting from Day 1.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Hm, well what about the ferts? There are some differing opinions on this thread, so it's a bit difficult to decide on something. Nitrites are still at 2-5 ppm (can't really tell, it's saturated purple) and the nitrates are around (40 maybe?)80 PPM (kool-aid red).


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## mooner (Dec 2, 2007)

Initially start NH3 at 4-6 ppm, test and watch it slowly drop to 0 ppm. As soon as it hits or just before zero, bring NH3 back to about 3 ppm. At that time, start testing for NO2, it will start slow then take off spiking in readings. Keep a eye on the NH3 and just as it is bottoming out, bring it back up to about 3 ppm. Eventually the NO2 will fall and will seem to hang at about .25 ppm, but will in time hit zero. Keep doing same with NH3 as it drops to zero. When the bacteria can process 3-4 ppm of NH3 and the NO2 associated with it in 10-12 hrs you are cycled. After cycling test NO3, it's probably high. Do a 50%-90% WC, AFTER the cycle, before adding fish., get NO3 below 20 ppm or less. Add fish within 24 hrs or keep adding the HN3 so filter stays cycled. Just WC before adding fish. NO ferts, NO fish food, NO water changes during cycle. This recipe is on the web, not mine. It works for me, three different times so far. Good luck.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Ok, you don't *need* to do water chages when cycling unless your pH drops. But the idea that you can't is foolish. 

Water changes won't harm your attempts at cycling as long as you account for them and don't think your levels are dropping when it is just the w/c doing it.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

You could drop the ammonia by half and see what the nitrite does. imho.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

1) Go ahead and plant, 'scape, adjust equipment... whatever you need to do. Just do not touch the filter media unless it is so dirty the flow is reduced. Then clean it gently in water removed from the tank. Most of the bacteria is growing on the filter media, and while it is young it is not so well attached. Eventually it will grow into a complex association of microorganisms in a bio film that is much more resistant to challenges like cleaning the filter media. 

2) Read through the fishless cycle and keep the water parameters within those values:
Ammonia: 3 ppm once a day or 1 ppm twice a day will grow plenty of bacteria. If the Nitrospira is not up to this quantity (NO2 keeps spiking) then less ammonia until it catches up. 
NO2: do a water change if it gets to 5 ppm. 
NO3: do not worry about it. Do not dose ferts with NO3. 
GH, KH: over 3 ppm minimum, and even this is pretty low. Over 5 ppm is better, and even higher. In the lab they grow these bacteria in water approaching Rift Lake parameters. 
O2: High water movement to ensure highest possible oxygen. 

3) Do whatever water changes you feel are needed, just re-dose the ammonia to whatever level is working at this point. Remember to add dechlor (unless you are on a well or some other source that does not need it.)


Here is the fishless cycle:

Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details. 

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium. 

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks. 

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water. 
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine. 
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine. 
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated. 
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful. 
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation. 
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort. 
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required. 
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different. 

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. I have even heard of the right bacteria growing in the bio film found on driftwood. (So if you have been soaking some driftwood in preparation to adding it to the tank, go ahead and put it into the tank) Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else. 
At the time this was written the right species could be found in: 
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others. 
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast. 

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though. 
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below. 

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm. 

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm. 

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm. 

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours. 

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high! 
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1a) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off. 
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better. 
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen. 
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well. 
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations. 

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. I am starting to worry about my plants because my dwarf sag is turning yellow, which I read is a sign of low potassium. I'd like to point out I know how the the cycle works for the most part, I read a good guide at the start of the process. I think my mistake was adding too much ammonia when I didn't need to. I'm pretty sure I was at the end of the cycle before I did that water change and rearranged everything, but I did something that reset it to halfway, which really sucks. Nitrites are finally coming down a bit, .50 to 1ppm, so I'm going to add a small amount of ammonia so it doesn't stall again. I know these threads pop up everywhere, but what I really wanted to know is why my trites spiked after the water change, when they were doing so well before, dosing 2-3ppm ammonia and keeping a steady .25 nitrite.  My KH is 8 and GH is 12, which is pretty hard water I assume. According to the API test kit, it's good for marine fish...My corys and betta have been okay with that water for the year I've had them, so I hope t hat doesn't cause problems for my new fish...


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Nitrites continuing to fall, I've added 1 ppm of ammonia yesterday and today nitrite is at .25 which is much better than 5 ppm. I think it's starting to catch up again. I have aeration going and my power head so hopefully that's helping.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

The sag yellowing could be a deficiency, or could be ammonia burn...

I'd generally not recommended to dose over 1-2ppm of ammonia with plants in the tank. Most plants can handle 4ppm of ammonia, but some of them get burned by it, the same as lawns get burned by over-fertilization with ammonia-bearing fertilizer... It generally damages roots and yellows the plants out. I have no idea if sag is sensitive to it.. my anacharis and crypt wenditii were not, but anacharis seemed to yellow and melt from it.

That said, not much to do at this point beyond dosing some P, K and micros and hoping for the best. 

If you don't want to do water changes yet, do PPS-pro dosing levels. That should be fine without water changes.

Otherwise, do EI and start on weekly water changes.. The water changes aren't needed for the cycle in general, but aren't going to hurt it, particularly not since you're getting pretty far in. The bacteria you are growing are not in the water, they're in the biofilm all over your plants, glass, substrate and filter, so changing the water won't discard them.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Alright, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Hope it cycles soon. Nitrites are hovering at .25 ppm every 24 hours after adding 1 ppm ammonia.


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## Turningdoc (Apr 2, 2014)

I used to have this problem using Diana's technique. I think the reason this thread is often repeated is the difficulty in knowing once nitrites show up how much ammonia is required to keep Nitrosomonas stable. I dropped back to 1 mL per 40 gal tank per day and found cycle to complete much faster. At "1 teaspoon" you are using 5 times that amount. 

There should be no reason to overdose ammonia as once bacteria are established, they will populate or reduce quickly to accomodate what stock you add.

I'm curious if others have found the same to be true. Maybe Diana could pool experiences to amend this portion of the protocol to an exact per gallon dose recommendation?


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

ppm *is* an exact per gallon recomendation... you just have to do some math or use a calculator.

The problem with things like "1ml/40 gallons" is what exactly are you using? Ammonia comes to us in many different concentrations. At 10% ammonia (Ace janitorial strength) that's adding 0.66ppm to your current ammonia level. At 2.5% (common household varieties) that's 0.165ppm. 

Also, daily dose methods don't really accomodate for whatever is already in your tank. You're just adding some amount, but not subtracting off what's already there.

Do yourself a favor, measure your current level, subtract it from your desired level, and use a calculator like this one if you have trouble with the conversions:
http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

i just squirt some in


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

> i just squirt some in


Well, I tested a few times to see what 'a squirt' would do, then test and add 1 squirt, or 2 squirts... The next time I buy ammonia I will have to test to see how much a 'squirt' is, just in case I buy a different concentration. 

If you want to raise as much bacteria as possible, that is, the same amount as is grown by the 3 ppm ammonia method, you can use just enough ammonia to bring it to 1 ppm, but do this twice a day. Keep an eye on the NO2 so you know that the ammonia removing organisms are not racing ahead of the Nitrospira. 
Most plants are fine with 1 ppm ammonia.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Okedokey said:


> i just squirt some in


Squirt works if you've got some experience under your belt... If you've done 100 tanks before, you probably have a fairly good knowledge of how much is needed and can eyeball it well enough...

It's kinda like cooking... experienced cooks often don't measure, because they've made the dish many times and already know roughly how much is needed. (note: cooking is not the same as baking..)

That said, your point that getting it down to the exact tenth of a ppm isn't necessary is very true... as long as you dose "enough" and not "too much" you're going to be fine.


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

Exactly, there is no need for provision anymore than feeding your fish.


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## Turningdoc (Apr 2, 2014)

mattinmd said:


> ppm *is* an exact per gallon recomendation... you just have to do some math or use a calculator.
> 
> The problem with things like "1ml/40 gallons" is what exactly are you using? Ammonia comes to us in many different concentrations. At 10% ammonia (Ace janitorial strength) that's adding 0.66ppm to your current ammonia level. At 2.5% (common household varieties) that's 0.165ppm.
> 
> I think you have pointed out an important point here. I use Ace 10% as many do. This makes it very easy to overdose. Only 1.5 mL is 1 ppm in 40 gal. "Just a squirt" each day can easily result in overdose using janitorial ammonia.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Turningdoc said:


> I think you have pointed out an important point here. I use Ace 10% as many do. This makes it very easy to overdose. Only 1.5 mL is 1 ppm in 40 gal. "Just a squirt" each day can easily result in overdose using janitorial ammonia.


I use ace as well, but I tend to mix it down 1:9 with water, creating a 1% solution that is easier to dose (and much less strong smelling when you open the bottle).


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

I am also using the ace hardware stuff. I accidentally spilled a smidge more of it into the tank and the nitrites spiked :| It is strong stuff. I might go ahead and do a water change because of the ferts I've been adding and the ammonia booboo.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

The nitrite finally dropped to zero. Hooray  Did a big water change. Nitrates were sky high. Hopefully I can get some fish in there soon.


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## Turningdoc (Apr 2, 2014)

Should be good to go. Just start slow, don't add more than a few fish per week and keep a close eye on parameters. If any sign of trouble with parameters, water change and retest.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

OK to add a full load of fish. The whole point of this fishless cycle is that you have grown more bacteria than a reasonable full load of fish would need, especially in a planted tank. 

The method was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to stock a Rift Lake Cichlid tank. These are stocked all at one time so they will sort out their territories and not claim the whole tank.


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## Turningdoc (Apr 2, 2014)

Problem with adding all at once is that if cycle overloads, will start an ammonia spike and everything dies. This does work, but you must be very careful and check parameters at least twice a day for a week or so. Easier, cheaper, and less stress to add in small groups.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

My 2¢ worth: plants can take care of a lot of ammonia too, if they're fast growers and other conditions are right - enough for a whole tank, but I always liked understocking, although my tank is currently about maxed out (see Diana Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium).

It sounds like when you use the fishless cycling method, using ammonia, you grow more nitrifying bacteria than with the fish-in method. I think we've seen that the size of the nitrifying bacteria population in a tank is a function of the ammonia input.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

I put in 4 sterbai cory I had in another tank first and observed to make sure they were okay in the new water. We had some fish on hold and time was running out, so we took the risk and added 10 rummy nose tetras (I know they can be sensitive), 2 assassin snails, and a baby siamese algae eater. I don't see any signs of stress yet, rummy noses are bright and active. They are small fish so I don't think they'll be making too much ammonia that the bacteria can't handle. I will be monitoring the water closely to make sure there are no spikes. My plants don't look very good, well, at least some of them. My pennywort and dwarf sag are yellowing, and the amazon sword has a leaf the is clear at the tip then goes to yellow and brown. Still trying to determine what works for the plants, might up the dose a bit on the iron. I'm using flourish excel now, but adding slowly because I ordered some jungle val which I heard can melt, it didn't come in looking so great to begin with, so I have to focus on new growth. I'm hoping the fish will help with co2 as well.


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## Malakian (Aug 23, 2014)

Alyssum said:


> I'm hoping the fish will help with co2 as well.


Then you are hoping in vain :tongue: Fish don't do anything to co2, or at least the little amount they may produce is not measurable in any way.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Oh, I guess it's up to me then xD Fish are doing okay so far...


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