# How often should i clean the filter?



## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Depends on how many fish are in the tank and a few other factors. I don't clean my filters until the output flow has slowed considerably. Usually 6 months to a year is average between cleanings.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

I would say clean it as often as you can. A lot of canister users (myself included all too often) go a long time in between cleanings. Just because the flow isn't reduced doesn't mean the filter is "clean". Having debris in your filter is no different than having it in your tank except for the fact that you can't see it. What many of us do is to add a sponge pre-filter that can be cleaned weekly to prevent much of the organic material from rotting inside the filter. With sponges on my intakes, I clean my canisters every three months. I clean the tubes about twice a year.

Dave


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I go between 2 weeks and 2 months, depending on the tank/filter combo. I clean tubes every 2 years.

Sponge prefilters block too much flow in my experience. Besides, baby shrimp and fry just love it in there!


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Dave, a filter doesn't have to be "clean." The main functions of a filter are to remove particles from the water by mechanical means, supply a place for bacteria and other organisms to flourish, and supply movement of water to prevent stagnation.

None of those are compromised by a filter that is not "clean." In fact they are often enhanced by a filter that is seasoned and not clean. 

IMO, cleaning a filter that does not have significantly reduced flow is unnecessary and can be detrimental.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

So true^^^ In fact if you think about it a fine pad that has more debris will catch the very small particals that may just pass through brand new pad.
I don't change my fine pads until they are just about falling apart.
Every six months is the usual.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Overfloater said:


> Dave, a filter doesn't have to be "clean." The main functions of a filter are to remove particles from the water by mechanical means, supply a place for bacteria and other organisms to flourish, and supply movement of water to prevent stagnation.
> 
> None of those are compromised by a filter that is not "clean." In fact they are often enhanced by a filter that is seasoned and not clean.
> 
> IMO, cleaning a filter that does not have significantly reduced flow is unnecessary and can be detrimental.


I guess I disagree. Waste that accumulates in a filter will decompose and degrade water quality the same way waste left on the bottom of the tank will. I don't see any difference in the two. Cleaning a filter to remove the solid waste that accumulates in there won't have any detrimental effects that I can think of assuming you aren't doing something foolish like cleaning the biomedia with tap water. I agree that a filter that isn't "clean" won't have negative effects on the filter itself, but it can have negative effects on water quality. I believe this is the reason most old timers will first suggest "clean your filters" when people want to correct tank issues like algae outbreaks.

Dave


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

DaveS said:


> I believe this is the reason most old timers will first suggest "clean your filters" when people want to correct tank issues like algae outbreaks.
> 
> Dave


I think this more about removing spores to reinfect a tank than filtration _per se._


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

macclellan said:


> I think this more about removing spores to reinfect a tank than filtration _per se._


That's never the advice I have been given or in turn have given out, but it is a valid point. I have usually seen it in regards to excess nitrates and other compounds that accumulate in the filter as organic materials decompose.

Dave


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

DaveS said:


> I guess I disagree. Waste that accumulates in a filter will decompose and degrade water quality the same way waste left on the bottom of the tank will. I don't see any difference in the two. Cleaning a filter to remove the solid waste that accumulates in there won't have any detrimental effects that I can think of assuming you aren't doing something foolish like cleaning the biomedia with tap water. I agree that a filter that isn't "clean" won't have negative effects on the filter itself, but it can have negative effects on water quality. I believe this is the reason most old timers will first suggest "clean your filters" when people want to correct tank issues like algae outbreaks.
> 
> Dave


Once again I agree with Dave.

What's the point of getting debris out of the main tank if it's just gonna sit decomposing in the filter?

I clean my sponge prefilters every 2 weeks and swap out my filter floss every month. The sponges and other media in my filters get a good squeeze/rinse every 3 months or so.


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## nugzboltz (May 20, 2008)

I clean my Aquaclear out everytime I do a water change, which is 2 times a month. I also agree with DaveS and lauralellbp - the filter may consolidate waste and your tank's junk in one location, but you still gotta empty it out once in a while. 

It's like throwing away meat into your trash can and not emptying it out for a while. That meat's gonna stink up your place, even if it is in a trash can.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

DaveS said:


> That's never the advice I have been given or in turn have given out, but it is a valid point. I have usually seen it in regards to excess nitrates and other compounds that accumulate in the filter as organic materials decompose.
> Dave


I agree.When I go too long between filter cleanings I have trouble keeping my nitrate levels down.Who knows what other poisonous compounds may be lurking in there too.

If you wait for a reduction in flow from your Classic you have waited way too long.3 months seems to work pretty good for me.


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## MiSo (Oct 26, 2005)

every 2-3 months.


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## MikeS (Apr 27, 2008)

I usually clean it every few months.


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## NeonFlux (Apr 10, 2008)

lescarpentier said:


> I agree.When I go too long between filter cleanings I have trouble keeping my nitrate levels down.Who knows what other poisonous compounds may be lurking in there too.
> 
> If you wait for a reduction in flow from your Classic you have waited way too long.3 months seems to work pretty good for me.


Addition to that, with that too much dissolved organic wastes, you can contribute to blue green algae;_unless_ you have complete control over it with lots of plants in a high tech planted tank. Zero nitrates can contribute to blue green algae as well...


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

The filter is an ecosystem that regulates itself. Cleaning it is something a human being does because they're a human being. There is no accumulation of organic toxins because they are immediately flushed out with the water flow. There is only a buildup of particulate matter that will physically block the flow. Water changes remove the buildup of toxins that accumulate in the water, not the filter.

Let me ask you this; anyone who has ever kept shrimp knows that they are very sensitive to water quality. Why is it that you always find a thriving population of shrimp living in the bottom of your canister if the conditions are so poor?


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

The filter is not an isolated ecosystem, it is part of the ecosystem that is the aquarium. The canister and the tank share the same water after all. The reason I clean my filter is the exact same reason I do water changes in my tanks, and that is to remove excess waste/organics/etc. The more crap that accumulates in the filter, the more compounds will be released into the aquarium as it decomposes and breaks down. Perhaps that isn't an issue, but I think it is. I'm not saying a canister filter is toxic, but it is still part of the entire volume of water that makes up an aquarium and IMO should be kept as clean as the rest of the system.

Dave


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ha. Thanks for all the replies, a lot more then i had expected.

I got a bunch of plants and driftwood today, and i'm having a lot
of trouble getting it arranged. I might just find a professional to come
do it.. lol. I give up.

If any of you live in Arizona, phoenix area, and would be willing to lend me a hand, let me know!


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

DaveS said:


> Perhaps that isn't an issue, but I think it is.
> 
> Dave


It's not an issue. If it was, shrimp, which are some of the most sensitive aquarium inhabitants would not thrive in the filter. Cleaning a filter before the flow is reduced, is just an exercise in obsessive compulsive disorder.

Over the years, IME, I have learned that letting a tank mature is always a better bet than mucking with it unnecessarily.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Overfloater said:


> It's not an issue. If it was, shrimp, which are some of the most sensitive aquarium inhabitants would not thrive in the filter. Cleaning a filter before the flow is reduced, is just an exercise in obsessive compulsive disorder.


LOL, well I would say that is just a tad over the top, but to each their own. Obviously the filter is going to have some of the cleanest water as it is seeing the largest amount of total turnover in the entire system. I expect that is fairly obvious. It is what the filter is putting back into the water column that is the concern for some of us. Anyhow, we can agree to disagree on this one and move on.

Dave


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

DaveS said:


> Obviously the filter is going to have some of the cleanest water as it is seeing the largest amount of total turnover in the entire system. I expect that is fairly obvious. It is what the filter is putting back into the water column that is the concern for some of us.
> Dave


Well obviously a filter would have the cleanest water in a system and the output water would not be as clean. :icon_roll The most important function of a filter is to return the dirty water to the tank and keep the clean water in itself. I expect that is fairly obvious.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

lol, what's the point?

I will just agree and leave it at that.

Dave


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Where the water inters the filter is the dirtiest water. Water leaving the filter in the cleanest. I've never found shrimp or critters in the exhaust section of the filter. They are only on the bottom where the intake is coming in.

Shrimp and other critters that you find at the bottom of the filter probably just got sucked in and they can't get out. There are many pieces of food and other things for them to eat and thrive.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Left C said:


> Where the water inters the filter is the dirtiest water. Water leaving the filter in the cleanest. I've never found shrimp or critters in the exhaust section of the filter. They are only on the bottom where the intake is coming in.
> 
> Shrimp and other critters that you find at the bottom of the filter probably just got sucked in and they can't get out. There are many pieces of food and other things for them to eat and thrive.


That is sort of what I was thinking as well Left C. I don't keep shrimp, but I am guessing they are motivated by pretty much the same thing all animals are: food/safety/procreation. I would think that being in a filter would certainly provide the first two rather easily for creatures like shrimp, although I doubt they purposely colonize the filters in the first place.

Dave


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

The fact that shrimp live in the filter, dirty or clean, is irrelevant here. 
It's not like they go in the filter on purpose...they are dumb little creatures and get sucked in by a pump going at 250+++GPH and survive on the little bits of dead plants/food etc. that make there way in. There only in the entry portion, basically plastered against the first level of sponge foam. They are never in the exhaust region, and would probably try and get the heck out of the filter if they could...


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

My point is that a filter is not a landfill that is uninhabitable unless it is cleaned frequently. It does not harbor a mass of waste waiting to be flushed back into the tank if it is not cleaned frequently. Cleaning it before the flow is reduced is not beneficial by any means.

Dave, since I have validated my point with an example and you have not, then yes, I think you should agree that you are incorrect.


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

DaveS said:


> It is what the filter is putting back into the water column that is the concern for some of us. Anyhow, we can agree to disagree on this one and move on.
> 
> Dave


This is fun....So far I think the "don't touch your filter" argument is winning here. DaveS, I don't think anyone is arguing that we need to do water changes, to take care of the organic waste that our filters are processing. Remember, most of the "organic waste" that occurs in the aquarium is going to be processed and filtered into the water column (mostly Nitrogenous waste), leaving behind particles that will eventually affect flow (when we need to "clean" filter to restore flow).

Anyway I'd like to hear more arguments from the clean your filter crowd.


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

macclellan said:


> The fact that shrimp live in the filter, dirty or clean, is irrelevant here.
> It's not like they go in the filter on purpose...they are dumb little creatures and get sucked in by a pump going at 250+++GPH and survive on the little bits of dead plants/food etc. that make there way in. There only in the entry portion, basically plastered against the first level of sponge foam. They are never in the exhaust region, and would probably try and get the heck out of the filter if they could...


Irrelevant? Also, dumb is a pretty relative term. How long you think shrimp have been able to live on this earth?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Here's my regime with "arguments":
I do monthly maintenance. 
I swap out the floss on my canisters monthly & rinse the larger-pored mechanical media. 
I don't touch my bacterial media except maybe a rinse in tank water every six months.
I clean my tubes every year or two.

These are my reasons: 
1). This is what my filter manufacturer recommends. Their experience and expertise surpass my own.
2). This keeps flow high and consistent, both of which are important for co2 distribution & plant growth, oxygenation for fish & plants. Changing when the filter's flow is reduced is less consistent, bigger change. (This point may not apply if you also use additional powerheads or pumps, on some of my tanks I do, some I don't. I find that frequent filter maintenance is more important when it is also my sole source of flow). 
3). This doesn't give time to allow nitrifying bacteria to populate the mechanical media and then be removed in one fell-swoop every several months. Less of a shock to the system. 
4). This (along with water changes) removes organics from the system - this helps keep TDS down and prevent surface film from forming.
5). This helps keep the water nice and polished (changing floss is my guess). People who visit my house, even aquarists doing Ei, 50% WWC etc, always ask how my water is so crystal clear.

I have one biological-only canister filter. I believe I've cleaned it twice in two years. Very different situation.



flanders said:


> Irrelevant? Also, dumb is a pretty relative term. How long you think shrimp have been able to live on this earth?


Yes, the fact that shrimp live in filters is irrelevant to how often filters should be cleaned... I don't think dumb is a relative term, but regardless, intelligence clearly isn't necessary for the longevity of a species (plants for example)...but discussing this further is _even more irrelevant_.

Overfloater - Remind the crowd what example you used to validated your point? The fact that shrimp can survive there? Shrimp can also survive indefinitely in jars on my windowsill with moss in them...what does this prove?


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Overfloater said:


> My point is that a filter is not a landfill that is uninhabitable unless it is cleaned frequently. It does not harbor a mass of waste waiting to be flushed back into the tank if it is not cleaned frequently. Cleaning it before the flow is reduced is not beneficial by any means.
> 
> Dave, since I have validated my point with an example and you have not, then yes, I think you should agree that you are incorrect.


I don't believe you have validated anything at all. OK, shrimp can live in your filter. How does this equate in any way that your filthy dirty filter is not polluting your water column? The two have nothing to do with each other whatsoever. The reason I gave up on the argument was that it had become so silly as not to warrant a further response. Since I am so easily goaded I have to retract that sentiment. The argument was never that a dirty filter was a safe place to raise shrimp afterall, it is whether or not a dirty filter contributes to excess waste byproducts in the tank. When something dead decomposes in your filter, is is going to leach something back into your tank. It isn't going to magically stay contained within the filter. The idea of keeping a waste filled filter is about as good as not removing solid waste from the tank during waterchanges and there is no difference as they are both part of the total volume of water that makes up the aquarium. The filter contains the waste so it can be removed later on. Cracking a filter open every three months and cleaning it must be the mildest form of OCD I have ever heard of. Perhaps rather than OCD it is practical aquarium maintenance. Waiting until a filter chokes with waste to the point that it can no longer sustain acceptable flow rates is just ***edit : ridiculous ***

Dave


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

macclellan said:


> Yes, the fact that shrimp live in filters is irrelevant to how often filters should be cleaned...
> 
> I don't think dumb is a relative term, but regardless, intelligence clearly isn't necessary for the longevity of a species (plants for example)...but discussing this further is _even more irrelevant_.


Well I think the original argument was about the "cleanliness" of a filter, and if the filter is inherently "dirty," then shrimp, being sensitive to organic wastes, wouldn't fare so well. 

Also, intelligence is often defined in human terms. Yes, plants don't have neurons so intelligence would be a hard argument, but plants have survived by being highly adaptable. I would argue that the animal kingdom as a whole, which has evolved neurons, uses intelligence as an adaptive advantage. You'd be surprised how many behavioral studies have been done on the simple fruit fly, with the goal of defining a basal intelligence, or at least a functional neuronal circuit that underlies complex behaviors e.g. sexual recognition/courtship, food preference, threat assessments, visual processing, etc.

And btw, this is pretty irrelevant to the original question, but what fun is it not to get off topic a little once in a while?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Looks like my thread has turned into a big conversation. Haha.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

flanders said:


> Well I think the original argument was about the "cleanliness" of a filter, and if the filter is inherently "dirty," then shrimp, being sensitive to organic wastes, wouldn't fare so well.


My argument was never that the filter is "inherently dirty" although it certainly is. Part of the job of the filter is, after all, to collect waste. My point is that people often fall into the trap of thinking the canister is an entity separate from the aquarium. They are both part of the same tank volume and waste inside the filter is waste inside the system. If we feel it is acceptable to leave waste for a long period of time in the filter, why not just leave it in the tank as well? What is the difference? The only difference I can discern is that you see the waste in the aquarium but it is hidden in the filter. Is the only reason we remove solid waste during water changes an aesthetic one? I don't believe it is. We remove solid waste to keep our dissolved organics at a manageable level and to keep the water quality reasonably high. This is the same reason I like to remove the same waste from my filters.

Dave


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

So, if I were to measure the organic wastes (Nitrate being most important I guess, what others?) in the filter, they would be significantly higher than in the water column? And, after I do a water change, do organic wastes increase, decrease, or stay the same in the filter?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

flanders said:


> Well I think the original argument was about the "cleanliness" of a filter, and if the filter is inherently "dirty," then shrimp, being sensitive to organic wastes, wouldn't fare so well.


That's a pretty bad argument. The water in a canister is receiving a complete turnover every 10-20 seconds or so (depending on canister size and pump strength), and the part of the filter they are in is before the dirty(ing) media in the flow path.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

flanders said:


> So, if I were to measure the organic wastes (Nitrate being most important I guess, what others?) in the filter, they would be significantly higher than in the water column?


No. Dave S's point is that the filter is not separate from the aquarium - it is the same water. The relevant thing to test is that if you were to measure organic wastes (much more than just nitrates) in the aquarium water, it would be lower if the filter was maintained more often rather than less often, all else equal.



flanders said:


> And, after I do a water change, do organic wastes increase, decrease, or stay the same in the filter?


I hypothesize that they'd decrease, because it is the same water, and some organic wastes have been removed by the water change. DaveS and my point is that changing water and diligent filter maintenance will lower it even more (because more plant matter, poo, etc. that would decay and enter the water column can't, as it is removed from the system, rather than just changing the water).

Anyone with a TDS meter want to try the experiment? It should take a good 6-12 months to gather the data...


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

flanders said:


> So, if I were to measure the organic wastes (Nitrate being most important I guess, what others?) in the filter, they would be significantly higher than in the water column? And, after I do a water change, do organic wastes increase, decrease, or stay the same in the filter?


It depends if you are measuring the levels when the filter is running or not. Because the volume within the filter is being turned over so quickly, whatever waste is being produced in the filter is more than likely quickly being sent into the main body of water. If you let the filter sit stagnant for awhile I would guess the measured levels would increase over time. What waste is in the filter stays the same after a water change unless you physically remove it.

Dave


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

macclellan said:


> The water in a canister is receiving a complete turnover every 10-20 seconds or so (depending on canister size and pump strength), and the part of the filter they are in is before the dirty(ing) media in the flow path.


Not really sure who "they" is.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

flanders said:


> Not really sure who "they" is.


They = shrimp


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

DaveS said:


> What waste is in the filter stays the same after a water change unless you physically remove it.
> 
> Dave


What kind of waste accumulates in the filter? Or, rather, what accumulates in the filter that is absent in the main tank?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

flanders said:


> Not really sure who "they" is.


Shrimp obviously. Reference established in quote that was being responded to.

Ninja'd, sorry.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

flanders said:


> What kind of waste accumulates in the filter?


Let's not be silly. Of course you've cleaned a filter before and know what the waste is. 



flanders said:


> What kind of waste accumulates in the filter? Or, rather, what accumulates in the filter that is absent in the main tank?


Do a water change into a container and let the waste settle. Look at quantity. Clean your filter in a container and let the waste settle. Look at quantity. The sum of the two is greater than the water alone. It's not different in kind, it is different in quantity. There is waste in both, which is why we (I any ways) clean often.


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

macclellan said:


> Shrimp obviously. Reference established in quote that was being responded to.
> 
> Ninja'd, sorry.


Ninja'd? I thought you were referring to some type of "dirtyfying" bacteria.


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

macclellan said:


> Let's not be silly. Of course you've cleaned a filter before and know what the waste is.
> 
> 
> 
> Do a water change into a container and let the waste settle. Look at quantity. Clean your filter in a container and let the waste settle. Look at quantity. The sum of the two is greater than the water alone. It's not different in kind, it is different in quantity. There is waste in both, which is why we (I any ways) clean often.


I think you're confusing chemical vs. mechanical filtration. Quantity of "stuff" in the filter is going to be higher, obviously, that is one of the filters's main functions. When this gets too high we clean the filter to restore flow. However, the filter also is responsible for chemical/biological filtration, which deals with most organic waste processing. Cleaning the media doesn't necessarily mean getting better biological filtration.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

flanders said:


> I think you're confusing chemical vs. mechanical filtration....


No, I'm not. The point was that what gets trapped in mechanical media isn't inert - it is decomposing.



flanders said:


> the filter also is responsible for chemical/biological filtration, which deals with most organic waste processing.


Correct. Most people with planted tanks, myself included, don't use chemical filtration, so it's really just biological and mechanical which are at issue.



flanders said:


> Cleaning the media doesn't necessarily mean getting better biological filtration.


Correct. But it can mean less decomposing waste in the system that needs to be biologically filtered.


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## MyEdsul (Jul 25, 2008)

macclellan said:


> Most people with planted tanks, myself included, don't use chemical filtration.


Why? (just thought I would give the experts more to discuss)


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

MyEdsul said:


> Why? (just thought I would give the experts more to discuss)


Charcoal removes trace minerals. So, you have to dose more, then change charcoal, then dose more, ad infinitum. However if you "use up" the chemical properties (a few months without changing) it is still good biological medium.

I do use Seachem's Purigen in some of my planted tanks, which is also a chemical filtration. Seachem does say that it removes some nitrates. I always over-dose, so I haven't noticed any deficiencies. It may be worth testing, if you're into that sort of thing. It works for me, so I'm not inclined to test - if it ain't broke, don't fix it, etc.

I've never used any ammonia, phosphate, or other absorbing chemical filtration products in a planted tank, so I can't comment on those.


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## Tim S (Mar 18, 2007)

How often do you guys clean or change out your bio-media? Also how bad is it to clean your mechanical media and not change them completely?


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## MyEdsul (Jul 25, 2008)

macclellan - I have a heavily planted 45 gallon with pressurized Co2 (23 ppm) and a lot of light 3.7 wpg running 2 Fluval 305s. Would you recommend a good filter media setup and fert dosage? I currently stack the Fluvals as recommended with Charcoal and noodles. I have also added their polishing pads. I dose with Seachem Flourish and Iron as well as Potassium, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus from Pfertz - a pretty strict regiment.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Tim S said:


> How often do you guys clean or change out your bio-media? Also how bad is it to clean your mechanical media and not change them completely?


I really don't ever "change out" my bio media. When I clean my filters, if the bio media looks dirty I swish it around in some of the change water and top off the media with some new if it has worn down a little bit. The mechanical media in the bottom of my Eheim gets cleaned in hot tap water and placed back in the filter. The floss pad gets swapped out every time and the course pad gets changed twice a year or so. Those times it doesn't get changed out I rinse it in hot water as well. In general, floss type media needs to be changed out every time and the rest just gets cleaned and reused.

Dave


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

MyEdsul said:


> macclellan - I have a heavily planted 45 gallon with pressurized Co2 (23 ppm) and a lot of light 3.7 wpg running 2 Fluval 305s. Would you recommend a good filter media setup and fert dosage? I currently stack the Fluvals as recommended with Charcoal and noodles. I have also added their polishing pads. I dose with Seachem Flourish and Iron as well as Potassium, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus from Pfertz - a pretty strict regiment.


You might do better starting a new thread with this, but I can tell you what I had good luck with in regards to my Fluval 404 before I kicked it to the curb.

Bottom Basket : Fluval mechanical media (ceramic hex tubes)
Middle Two Baskets: Fluval Bio-Max
Top Basket : Sponges (for polishing and use for QT filters)

I would ditch the charcoal personally and just go with floss or Purigen instead (I haven't personally used the Purigen but it gets high marks from many here).

Dave


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Purigen only removes organic nitrates, not ferts, so there's no issue there.

I use Purigen and carbon both in my planted tank- and I run a nutrient-free water column, but a nutrient-rich substrate. My point here is that there is always more than one way to skin a cat. It should be notied that unless regularly replaced, quality activated carbon will reach it's maximum "absorbing" capacity after time, after which point it serves simply as another surface for N-bacteria to colonize- becoming an effective part of the biofilter. (The cheap stuff could start leeching toxins back into the tank. I use and really like Seachem's Matrix carbon. :thumbsup: )

I don't ever replace biological media unless it's started to fall apart (I have had some crumbling ceramics I needed to replace over the years...). I do rinse biological media occasionally (in treated or tank water) if it's looking gunky/clogged.

I don't remove/replace my sponges unless they're clogged to the "point of no return" (which really only happens to my micron filters), but I do squeeze them and rinse them regularly.

I replace my filter floss every time I crack open my filter, which is usually once a month or so.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Tim S said:


> How often do you guys clean or change out your bio-media? Also how bad is it to clean your mechanical media and not change them completely?


I have never changed my biomedia, and only change my small pore mechanical media. Rena filters come with large and small sponges, which are good until they physically deteriorate. I toss floss after each use.



lauraleellbp said:


> Purigen only removes organic nitrates, not ferts, so there's no issue there.


That's good to know, thanks.



lauraleellbp said:


> tank. I use and really like Seachem's Matrix carbon. :thumbsup: )


Me too, but not in my planted tanks.



MyEdsul said:


> macclellan - I have a heavily planted 45 gallon with pressurized Co2 (23 ppm) and a lot of light 3.7 wpg running 2 Fluval 305s. Would you recommend a good filter media setup and fert dosage? I currently stack the Fluvals as recommended with Charcoal and noodles. I have also added their polishing pads. I dose with Seachem Flourish and Iron as well as Potassium, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus from Pfertz - a pretty strict regiment.


I have no experience with Fluvals or their media, so I won't comment. Sorry.

You'll want to get your co2 up though, and look into dry ferts from rexgrigg.com or greenleafaquariums.com if you want to do the same for cheaper.


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## MyEdsul (Jul 25, 2008)

Great - thank you all for the valuable feedbacks.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Well what can I say? The point I made was that a filter does not need to be cleaned out as most people seem to think. The trend, especially in America, is that more is better. In this case, there is absolutely no proof that cleaning a filter before it becomes partially physically blocked is beneficial in anyway as the filter simply stores solid particulates and not soluble waste. Soluble waste is flushed back into the system and removed through WC's. 

For the record, I don't use floss so the media does not become clogged quickly. I only use a coarse sponge, fine sponge, and biorings. *A sponge that is saturated with organic waste, is almost as good as DE for polishing the water.* In my experience, floss clogs to quickly to be of much use. 

Anyone is welcome to clean their filters as often as they like, however, telling a new user they should clean their filters "as often as they can" until it is "clean" as DaveS suggested, is simply bad advice considering a lack of evidence to suggest such frequent cleaning is beneficial. 

One thing I like to do to judge the value of advice being given is to investigate how long someone has been doing a particular activity. There is no substitute for experience in this or any hobby.


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## Mangala (Jul 23, 2006)

Without going in to what everyone has said, since I use HOBs and not Canisters, I thought I'd just say what my experience has been:

Depending on my substrate, I might dump out the water in my HOB once a month or two. My sand substrate filter needs to be swished and dumped every water change. My "tahitian moon sand" tanks only need it once in a while. 

I never... like, scrub my filters... 

I will, occasionally, remove the intake tubes and rinse/swish them in running water if it seems like my impeller is running not so smooth. mostly this is me wanting to clean off the impeller, and the intake tube is along for the ride. 

I have a bucket of gross water I keep for squeezing out filter media whenever it starts "trickling" (I call it "trickling") meaning that the media is so full that the water is spilling back out the intake, which is very annoying sounding, and compels me to take care of it. 

I very rarely squeeze out my large pore sponges. 

In my opinion, the ****/mulm/fish waste at the bottom of the tank in the gravel is the same stuff that's in the filter, unless it's sand, but mostly it hangs out on the filter floss, not in the bottom of my HOB, except for the sand bottomed tank, which collects sand in the bottom of the HOB pretty regularly, and thus I dump it out. (otherwise the sand just goes into my tank when I turn the filter back on, and it looks gross.) 

That same **** is the stuff that's holding all that bacteria that you want to turn fish wastes from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate so your plants can use it. 

And so, while you want to remove the gross looking stuff, you definitely do not want to get rid of all of it.


Also, why I use HOBs and not Canister filters like all the rest of you? 

I've had such poor luck with canisters that I just don't want to risk it anymore. I've mostly had them leak, or been unable to figure out how to turn them off to clean them and not get water all over the place. Well, to be fair, my only experience is with a Fluval 205... But because I didn't want the water all over my carpet, I ended up not cleaning out the media for a very long time and then it just started to STINK... bleh.

Anyway, yeah, simple HOBs for me, thanks. 

:fish: :fish: :fish:


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Overfloater said:


> For the record, I don't use floss so the media does not become clogged quickly. I only use a coarse sponge, fine sponge, and biorings. *A sponge that is saturated with organic waste, is almost as good as DE for polishing the water.* In my experience, floss clogs to quickly to be of much use.


I agree with the floss comment. The only floss type of media I use in my canisters is the floss pad supplied from Eheim. I quit using regular filter floss years ago.



Overfloater said:


> Anyone is welcome to clean their filters as often as they like, however, telling a new user they should clean their filters "as often as they can" until it is "clean" as DaveS suggested, is simply bad advice considering a lack of evidence to suggest such frequent cleaning is beneficial.


I suppose it was a poor choice of words on my part. I should have given an exact time period if my quote was going to be taken so literally. Obviously I am not suggesting people should clean their filters every 15 minutes "if they can". I still believe people tend to go too long between filter cleanings, and my own personal experience leads me to believe that a clean filter is better than a dirty one. What "lack of evidence" is there to suggest keeping a filter clean is not beneficial? What evidence is there that it is harmful? What evidence is there that it is beneficial to wait until a filter is clogged before cleaning it? The only "evidence" given by any of us here is purely antecdotal.



Overfloater said:


> One thing I like to do to judge the value of advice being given is to investigate how long someone has been doing a particular activity. There is no substitute for experience in this or any hobby.


I couldn't agree more. I have only been using canisters for about 12 years now (having used power filters or sponges long before that and still to this day), so I guarantee that there are many people here with much more experience to back up their suggestions. Still, I think this is more than enough time to prove to myself that regular cleaning of a canister is certainly not harmful or dangerous in any way.


Dave


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