# Care tips on Rotala Butterfly?



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I just bought a few stems of this gorgeous plant from manini http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/84224-fs-rotala-sp-butterfly.html. 

Does anyone know much about this gem? It has already grown an inch, but I am seeing a little tinge of green in the very center of the leaves. I want to be successful with it, but I cannot find much other than "high light and difficult." Anyone have any tips? Thanks!


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

You read my mind. 

I have the same thing going on. I believe its because I dont have as much light over my tank as the seller did. I PM's them about their tank specs and we have baisically the same fert routine, lighting is the only other variable.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I am so confused with this plant. I have other reds in this tank that are doing excellent. This one is growing but with less intensity. What type of fertilizers do you use? I am also beginning to think lighting is the key. I am going to place them in a higher light tank and see what happens.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Most red plants require high light and lots of iron to stay red.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I dose TPN+ 3ml, Phosphate and Potassium every other day and Flourish Iron and Regular flourish on alternating days as Macros.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I quit dosing iron for some reason. I dug out my bottle and will put some in tomorrow morning. I will have to see if this helps. I'll let you know of my progress. Thanks.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I dose pretty heavy on the Iron, I feel its one of the most crucial nutrients to a "lush" scape. Also there is really no bad side effects of being heavy handed with Fe. 

Now in other news, I got a new KNO3 test and my levels are way high!!! Between 40ppm-80ppm. I dont know if its the aquasoil or what but I have the same problem with higher nitrates in my 37g at home too that has AS in it. I dont care what ANYONE says but leaning out nitrates brings the reds out quite a bit more in my tanks. Ill do a water change and see what happens in the next couple of days and keep you posted. :thumbsup:



sewingalot said:


> I quit dosing iron for some reason. I dug out my bottle and will put some in tomorrow morning. I will have to see if this helps. I'll let you know of my progress. Thanks.


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Too much Iron is rumored to bring out hair algae. 

I believe this was debunked, right? Some info still says too much iron causes algae, the ukplant one says it's not true... I haven't really tested it too much myself. I just dose whatever I feel is needed.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Complete Myth. Co2 is the root of almost all algea problems. I actually posted the same question a few months back and was assured it was unfounded.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

its the lighting, at least in my case. i know the guy who sold it and got a bunch from him to try out. same thing, it would turn green. got more and stuck it in every planted tank i have with co2 running. 3 of the 5 started going green, but the 2 that didnt had the highest lighting of the 5. his tank is a 30P i think and he runs a tek 4x24w t5ho over it for at least 10 hours +. mine stays red in... you guessed it, my 30B with a 4 x 24w t5ho CA fixture. its the shallow depth of the 30b and decent amount of light the CA reflectors put out. ferts are not consistant on any of my tanks (i dose when i remember to, maybe once a week). 30B right next to it with a 2x 65w cfl (crappy oddessy fixture) and the same AS1 goes green until it hits the surface, then it goes back to red.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Thats what I figured. Thanks for the info D. 
roud:


dhavoc said:


> its the lighting, at least in my case. i know the guy who sold it and got a bunch from him to try out. same thing, it would turn green. got more and stuck it in every planted tank i have with co2 running. 3 of the 5 started going green, but the 2 that didnt had the highest lighting of the 5. his tank is a 30P i think and he runs a tek 4x24w t5ho over it for at least 10 hours +. mine stays red in... you guessed it, my 30B with a 4 x 24w t5ho CA fixture. its the shallow depth of the 30b and decent amount of light the CA reflectors put out. ferts are not consistant on any of my tanks (i dose when i remember to, maybe once a week). 30B right next to it with a 2x 65w cfl (crappy oddessy fixture) and the same AS1 goes green until it hits the surface, then it goes back to red.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for the information everyone! I am upping my co2 and lowering my nitrates.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I believe I have a 23w spiral PC over my mini-m. This weekend I am going to go to Wal-Mart and get a 27w bulb to see if anything changes. 

Also on the Nitrate front, I changed water twice since my high nitrate reading and it is still on the higher side. I attribute this to the fert tabs (wondergro+) being disturbed and reeleasing into the water column. I changed the water today and havent checked yet so I am going to measure tomorrow morn.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Keep me updated on your results. I noticed new growth branching out on a couple stems, but they are bright green at the moment. I'll get a picture up soon with my stems so you can compare if you like.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

That sounds great. I am having the same thing happen, new growth above the old leaves that are vibrant green.


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## Stevie D (Jul 16, 2008)

I have some problems with the red plants not being as red as they should be and i was assured i am using very high light. My 55 gallon has a catalina 4x55 watt T5HO running 10 hours a day with 2 bulbs and a 5 hour noon burst with the other 2. Plants don't turn red until they really start getting close to the surface. I do have high nitrates 20-30 usually and i hardly ever dose nitrates, plenty of K and i do dose phosphate, but not much as it is always high at the end of the week and there is plenty 3-5ppm or more. I wonder if it is the nitrates?? I wonder if it is the noon burst? would it be better to go all lights on for say 8-9 hours? I want that stunted growth look where the plants say shorter and lower because of alot of light, and i want red plants damnit!! Plenty of co2 and circulation (at least 35-40ppm or more and tons of timed circulation) No algae problems ever so im not concerned about that at the moment. What is the deal here?? Nobody seems to know.

To be complete my water parameters are KH 2, GH 6, PH 5.6 (with co2 and ph controller, natural more like 6.6-6.8, i dose plenty of trace and iron as well. Iron is always over 1ppm or more at all times, ususally more. Does "hardness" have anything to do with it? It would be nice if people start listing thier hardness and how red their plants are as well and see if we start seeing some patterns.

Stevie D


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

It could be your nitrates. I stand by the fact that when my nitrates are higher the reds are all lousy looking.

As far as your lighting. If you have good co2 levels and have seen no algea I would run them all day, noon bursts are irrelivent in the planted tank. They use the light when its there.


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## Stevie D (Jul 16, 2008)

So what do you keep your nitrates at? It seems that if i don't even dose nitrates i'll still have 15-20ppm at the end of the week, and my test kit is calibrated so it is fairly accurate, or at least enough to know there are plenty of nitrates in the tank. Plants all do just fine, no deficiencies. It seems like the plants aren't really using the nitrates, but ofcourse they are. I'm going to not does nitrates or phosphate for a few week and do some test on 2 tanks and see what happens. I don't have any nitrates or phosphates in my water supply either, and i do test regularly as well as read the city reports. Any one see a problem with just dosing K, iron and trace as long as the nitrate and phosphate level are present in the tank?

By the way you would think i have a ton of fish in my tanks but i don't. The 55 gallon has 4 discus between 3.5 and 4.5 inches, 8 Cardinals, 6 amano shrimp, 4 small cory cats, 4 small peacock gudgeons and that's it at the moment, oh i do have kinda a lot of small ramshorn snails, but not too crazy, maybe a hunderd or so total, but not hundreds or thousands liek some have so i don't think that's the problem, and they are are pretty small. 2 Fluval 203's and 2 Koralia 1's in this tank.

The 26 gallon just has a 4.5" breeding pair of discus, 3 black kuli loaches and 1 bumble cat that is very small 2.5 inches or less. I do feed quite often, but not excessive, and there is never any left over food i can see after about 10 minutes of feeding anywhere and the tanks are very clean and i do do a 50% or more water change a week staight from the tap (with Prime of course). An Eheim 2215 and a koralia nano in this tank.

Stevie D


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I try to keep mine between 5-10 ppm. Nitrates have to be coming from somewhere. Fish food, fish waste, Subtrate???


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## Stevie D (Jul 16, 2008)

ok so it is ok to have nitrates in the 5-10ppm range as long as the plants are not reducing them to 0 at anytime through the week. I'll stop my dosing and see what happens. Both tanks have eco complete in them and i do use wondergro root tabs in the 55 gallon, but only like 2 tabs every 2 months or so under a large mass of crypts and that's it.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

bsmith782 said:


> That sounds great. I am having the same thing happen, new growth above the old leaves that are vibrant green.


I'll take some pictures tomorrow. I stopped dosing nitrates three days ago, so I don't expect to see any results for a few weeks. I'll repost in a few weeks as well.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Stevie D said:


> I have some problems with the red plants not being as red as they should be and i was assured i am using very high light. My 55 gallon has a catalina 4x55 watt T5HO running 10 hours a day with 2 bulbs and a 5 hour noon burst with the other 2. Plants don't turn red until they really start getting close to the surface. I do have high nitrates 20-30 usually and i hardly ever dose nitrates, plenty of K and i do dose phosphate, but not much as it is always high at the end of the week and there is plenty 3-5ppm or more. I wonder if it is the nitrates?? I wonder if it is the noon burst? would it be better to go all lights on for say 8-9 hours? I want that stunted growth look where the plants say shorter and lower because of alot of light, and i want red plants damnit!! Plenty of co2 and circulation (at least 35-40ppm or more and tons of timed circulation) No algae problems ever so im not concerned about that at the moment. What is the deal here?? Nobody seems to know.
> 
> To be complete my water parameters are KH 2, GH 6, PH 5.6 (with co2 and ph controller, natural more like 6.6-6.8, i dose plenty of trace and iron as well. Iron is always over 1ppm or more at all times, ususally more. Does "hardness" have anything to do with it? It would be nice if people start listing thier hardness and how red their plants are as well and see if we start seeing some patterns.
> 
> Stevie D


Stevie,

My water is typically 11 - 12 in GH, pH 6.2, KH 4, Nitrates typically 40 - 80 ppm, Phosphates 5 - 10 (I stopped dosing this as well last week since it is 2 - 3 out of the tap). I do not measure iron, but wasn't dosing extra iron until recently. My co2 is at the DC color green/yellow by the end of the night. I run it on a timer with it coming on an hour before lights come on and turning off 1/2 after lights go out.

I have the same lights you have. I have been running mine for 6 1/2 hours full strength for 4 hours. (Just started this schedule due to an algae outbreak.)

Some reds are better than others. It seems like I have more trouble with the "delicate leaved" plants.

Hope this helps you somewhat.

Sara


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Here are a few pictures. I also am throwing in my Sao Paulo to show the tank is growing higher light plants. Also, this plant seems plagued with some type of hair algae.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

My Rotala butterfly is coming in mostly a nice deep pink color. I have it under 130w of light in a 20g, with the nitrates around 10ppm. I've noticed a few side shoots coming off the top that are a bit green, but the main plant is still pretty red.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Thats a ton of light.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

bsmith782 said:


> Thats a ton of light.


Agreed. So this is why I cannot grow this pretty plant.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

It is a ton of light, but even now the newest growth isn't quite as intensely colored. It's still pink, but more of a normal pink rather than a fluorescent, neon, "look at me!" pink. 

Maybe it's just that Hawaiian water manini has...


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Or a good photo editing program.



legomaniac89 said:


> It is a ton of light, but even now the newest growth isn't quite as intensely colored. It's still pink, but more of a normal pink rather than a fluorescent, neon, "look at me!" pink.
> 
> Maybe it's just that Hawaiian water manini has...


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## ingg (Jan 18, 2007)

bsmith782 said:


> Or a good photo editing program.


That wasn't a very nice shot. I hope it was just a bad attempt at a joke? 

I have it in my 180g, without a ton of light and it is growing fine, albeit slower than other rotalas, and keeping color just fine...my water column is lean as all get out, being a mineralized soil tank, and yes, nitrates do wash out reds in my experience as well.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

It wasnt a shot. Just a possible explination of why it looked the way it did. There have been posts where people have show what editing van do to plants.



ingg said:


> That wasn't a very nice shot. I hope it was just a bad attempt at a joke?
> 
> I have it in my 180g, without a ton of light and it is growing fine, albeit slower than other rotalas, and keeping color just fine...my water column is lean as all get out, being a mineralized soil tank, and yes, nitrates do wash out reds in my experience as well.


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## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

I share the same problem. Could it be that I use RO/DI water?


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

no, its at red as the pics. i see that tank every week. its the lighting, the plant just requires a ton of it to stay red, nothing more, nothing less.



bsmith782 said:


> It wasnt a shot. Just a possible explination of why it looked the way it did. There have been posts where people have show what editing van do to plants.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Like I said above I wasnt trying to take a swing at anyone. Just offering one explination. :thumbsup:



dhavoc said:


> no, its at red as the pics. i see that tank every week. its the lighting, the plant just requires a ton of it to stay red, nothing more, nothing less.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

ingg said:


> That wasn't a very nice shot. I hope it was just a bad attempt at a joke?
> 
> I have it in my 180g, without a ton of light and it is growing fine, albeit slower than other rotalas, and keeping color just fine...my water column is lean as all get out, being a mineralized soil tank, and yes, nitrates do wash out reds in my experience as well.


Any pics, ingg?


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## manini (Oct 18, 2007)

Apparently I didnt know that this thread existed. I can guarantee that the photos were NOT photoshopped. If I am not mistaken, the plants that were sent out were red.... like the photo. Specs in my tank is as follows - 3/4 RO 1/4 tap, pH is at 6.8, TDS 120. I dose with Brighty K daily, rotate flourish with Brighty step 1. Substrate is ADA Amazonia 1. CO2 about 2bbps. Tank is a ADA 60P, light unit is a 24" TEK LIGHT running 2 giessemann aquaflora and 2 giesseman midday. Photo period is 9.5 hours. Lighting, is I think the key to this plant.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I agree with you.



manini said:


> Apparently I didnt know that this thread existed. I can guarantee that the photos were NOT photoshopped. If I am not mistaken, the plants that were sent out were red.... like the photo. Specs in my tank is as follows - 3/4 RO 1/4 tap, pH is at 6.8, TDS 120. I dose with Brighty K daily, rotate flourish with Brighty step 1. Substrate is ADA Amazonia 1. CO2 about 2bbps. Tank is a ADA 60P, light unit is a 24" TEK LIGHT running 2 giessemann aquaflora and 2 giesseman midday. Photo period is 9.5 hours. Lighting, is I think the key to this plant.


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## ingg (Jan 18, 2007)

epicfish said:


> Any pics, ingg?


Sure. This is twice as tall as when I got it - and so we aren't talking about it, the larger and paler rotala behind it is some Colorata I placed there for comparisons in growth. 

Bottoms of stems are showing green, tops are staying nice and red - and this is in a 24" deep tank, 8x39 TEK + Geisemann lighting over a 180g.


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## lizziotti (Mar 8, 2008)

Wow and this is mineralized soil! It looks great! I actually love this plant mine isn't growing as fast as that and I have alittle green as well but maybe it just needs to adjust to a new surrounding? A week ago I redid my tank and now have MS also. So now I'm just going to wait and see and I do want to get a hold of some more to help fill it in. Also I need to keep my fish from nibbling at it, that's becoming an issue!

Are you dosing anything with your MS?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

dhavoc said:


> no, its at red as the pics. i see that tank every week. its the lighting, the plant just requires a ton of it to stay red, nothing more, nothing less.


I agree. I bought some a few weeks ago and all new growth is red. I have it in a 10g with 110watts of CF light. In a larger tank you would need a setup like Inggs. CF lighting IMO will only work (give you color) on very shallow tank.

BTW my tank has AS and is lightly dosed with EI.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

This is why I am wanting to DIY a 12" t5ho fixture for my mini-m. 



houseofcards said:


> I agree. I bought some a few weeks ago and all new growth is red. I have it in a 10g with 110watts of CF light. In a larger tank you would need a setup like Inggs. CF lighting IMO will only work (give you color) on very shallow tank.
> 
> BTW my tank has AS and is lightly dosed with EI.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

stuck a couple of branches in my mini-m a few weeks ago, with that overpriced ADA 27w cfl lighting and it seems to be staying red. i would love a 12" t5ho. though.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Werd.



dhavoc said:


> stuck a couple of branches in my mini-m a few weeks ago, with that overpriced ADA 27w cfl lighting and it seems to be staying red. i would love a 12" t5ho. though.


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

At first mine seemed to have green tips coming but now that it's been growing for just over a week in my tank it's almost doubled in height (4" to about 8") and is pearling like mad the color is an almost sunset orange-red. No longer the pinkish-red when I got it bt still quite nice. The growth and leave shape look identical to my Rotala macrandra 'Green' except for the color and perhaps slightly smaller leaves. My Nitrates are on the high side (20-30ppm) so perhaps reducing them would get more red? I normally follow a fairly moderate EI dosing regime for my size tank. But I do have quite a decent fish bioload. My lighting is 3x54W T5HO over a 72 gal. I had 4x54W but always get GSA and GDA when I use all 4 lights and my growth is MORE than fast enough under the 3x54W......


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Seems to me that t5ho lighting is the common link between green/mediocre coloration to the red coloration we are chasing.


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

bsmith782 said:


> Seems to me that t5ho lighting is the common link between green/mediocre coloration to the red coloration we are chasing.


 
and geisemann bulbs :thumbsup:

*edit* and photoshop. *dont hit me!* lol


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

These stems came in simply beautiful! They were more pretty than the picture. However, in my tank I can't get them to color up as pretty. I think it has to be lighting and lean nitrates. In the meantime, I love the greenish pink growth of the plant. It actually compliments the plant quite well.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Okay, I forgot about updating this thread until tonight so here goes.

I added extra iron to my water and started having problems with hair and fuzzy algae. To be fair, I was already battling algae in my tank, so I don't want to say the iron caused algae, it just made it happier.









So I tried excel, cutting the lights, upping co2 and still this plant was struggling to get rid of the algae. So what next? I try H202 (plain ole' 3% over the counter peroxide) and bam! Algae gone. But look at the results of the plant. Lesson learned: don't add h202 directly to this plant. On the plus side it is slowly coming back. :hihi:


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

sewingalot said:


>


Wow mine looked exactly the same after about a week in my tank. The new side shoots came up a nice bright pink but the original stems looked really ragged with all the green sprouts coming up. Good to hear yours is coming back after the peroxide bath


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I think I'll leave this plant to the experts with fantastic lights for the future. I think it will rebound, buy I don't think it will ever look as pretty as it should. :hihi:


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

I don't know what lights manini had it under originally, but I've got it in a 20L under 130W of Coralife CF, and it still isn't as intensely colored as when I got it. It's a nice eye-catching pink, but not the blinding neon pink it should be.

Ah well, it's a cool plant anyway


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

legomaniac89 said:


> I don't know what lights manini had it under originally, but I've got it in a 20L under 130W of Coralife CF, and it still isn't as intensely colored as when I got it. It's a nice eye-catching pink, but not the blinding neon pink it should be.
> 
> Ah well, it's a cool plant anyway


Here's the earlier post from manini. I wish I could do the plant justice. I am planning to move it to a higher light tank later to see if I can help it.



manini said:


> Apparently I didnt know that this thread existed. I can guarantee that the photos were NOT photoshopped. If I am not mistaken, the plants that were sent out were red.... like the photo. Specs in my tank is as follows - 3/4 RO 1/4 tap, pH is at 6.8, TDS 120. I dose with Brighty K daily, rotate flourish with Brighty step 1. Substrate is ADA Amazonia 1. CO2 about 2bbps. Tank is a ADA 60P, light unit is a 24" TEK LIGHT running 2 giessemann aquaflora and 2 giesseman midday. Photo period is 9.5 hours. Lighting, is I think the key to this plant.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Here is mine in an ADA Mini-M with 2-13w ott lights and a 26w spiral pc desk lamp.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yours is still brighter than mine. Here is the one small stem I salvaged from the H202. (Sorry about the blurry picture, the current keep moving it.)


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

What is that lighting?


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

will post pics of mine tommorow as i have it growing in my office tanks. but the key for me anyway is like i mentioned before high lighting, and shallow tanks. it glows red in my office tanks which have CA 4x24w t5ho over a 30B. more of orange red/maroon red in my CFL lighted mini-m. and my lower light 20L CRS tank (CA 2x24w t5ho). the similarity between them all is water depth..... in my 120 at home with a 8x54w tek (4 bulbs most of the day, all 8 for only 2 hours daily), i cant get it to grow well at all. looks like legomaniacs pics. cant up the light too much more or the bba and gsa will take off again. erios and most other plants seem to do just fine. those stems directly below the lights in the 30's literally glow pink. those not directly under the lights, grow a darker shade of blood red. both tanks use AS I. i dose PPS fert solutions maybe once a week if i remember to. they have been running for 1-2 years now with a pretty high fish/invert load. i change 25% of the water maybe once every 6 months or so. but top off with 100% RO/DI.

so my experience anyway: high light, preferably t5ho, and shallow tanks ~12-15" or so to get the red. otherwise i get a lighter orangy-green , or if the depth is greater without very high lighting, that stunted green look.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

bsmith782 said:


> What is that lighting?


I am ashamed to say 65 compact flourescent over 15 gallons.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

ok pic of mine in one of the 30B. i just did a major mowing, so what you see is the replanted tops. color and leaf size varies alot for some reason.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

bsmith782 said:


> Complete Myth. Co2 is the root of almost all algea problems. I actually posted the same question a few months back and was assured it was unfounded.


Yeh that is what I was told. Found though with my tank potassium deficiency was the root of BBA. Basicly it seems when the plants aren't growing well algae takes their place. Some experts agreed with me that concentrating on getting the plants grow more proficient than concentrating on the algae. Complexity was 1 that used this theory.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> On the plus side it is slowly coming back. :hihi:


The plants look like mine did before I dosed with KNO3. I dosed it straight and lost some fish. Read suppose to mix 1 Tbs of KNO3 with 1cup of water. I bought mine at Lowe's, labeled spectricede stump remover $7. I found someone else at a forum used it and found that it is 100% KNO3. You can buy it here aquariumfertilizers 

What type of iron did you dose with that the algae liked? I have found 3 types of iron. If I ever get iron I am going to get Seachem iron (iron glutamine) for it has other nutrients.


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## OiZO (Feb 2, 2010)

Raised from the dead!:icon_evil

Anyone still successfully growing this? If so anything you can share about it on the long term?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Skewlboy is one off hand I can think of. Mine never converted back to the pretty red. It looks like rotala mac. green now.


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## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

A friend is growing it successfully in a 20 long, 6 watts per gallon, AS type 1, no nitrate ferts - just potassium phophate 3x/week, iron chelate daily, and Flourish comprehensive weekly.


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