# Please help. I am truly insane.



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I have been bit by the bug. I have more tank syndrome, the infamous disease among aquarists that has no cure. It's only temporary relief is buying yet another aquarium, which is why this thread was posted. I am too young to buy a house so I live with my parents. They are only okay with ONE aquarium in the main are. I have some room in my bedroom though... I need ideas. I have room for one 4 foot tank and then ~8 feet of wall space. I have a 10 gallon aquarium currently empty. I want to make a really nice aquascape in it. What other tanks should I buy?

Amozonian biotope?
Asian biotope?
Dartfrog vivarium?
aggresive cichlids?
Oscar pair?
Angelfish?

All of the above?


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

You should look into north american native fish. You can collect fish that are living probably a few miles from where you live in streams and ponds for free (assuming you have a fishing license). Similarly you can use only native plants and create a native biotope if biotopes are your thing.


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Great idea. I do have a fishing license. I would prefer to stick to tropical aquariums and Oregon couldn't be farther from tropical. I guess I could get some trout, but I would need a MASSIVE aquarium as they like company.

Bump: And trout are the smallest of our native fish at like 2+ feet. salmon get like 4 in good conditions and sturgeon like 98,000,000,000,000,000 feet.


----------



## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I'd imagine there are lots of dace, shiners and such but don't know the area. Surely there are some smaller natives than trout and salmon! I feel ya on the MTS before you move out of your house though. I went through it too. Sounds like you might do well constructing a rack of say 20 gallon tanks. Maximize gallons and minimize space.


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Great idea! I will just buy a gorilla rack and a bunch of aquariums! They fish around here are all 'huge' compared to aquarium standards. I love planted tanks, so maybe not African cichlids.


----------



## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

aquanerd13 said:


> Great idea! I will just buy a gorilla rack and a bunch of aquariums! They fish around here are all 'huge' compared to aquarium standards. I love planted tanks, so maybe not African cichlids.


 If you are ever in Portland, Oregon make sure to visit The Wetspot Tropical fish store. An amazing fish store with great variety. I haven't actually been there, but I order from there several times a year because on of the few online vendors with rare and wild fish. 



https://www.wetspottropicalfish.com/


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Dude I leave like 30 minutes from portland. I haven't been to wetspot yet, but I am gonna buy all my plants and fish from them from now on. They sound like good people. I love the livechat on their website.


----------



## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

aquanerd13 said:


> Dude I leave like 30 minutes from portland. I haven't been to wetspot yet, but I am gonna buy all my plants and fish from them from now on. They sound like good people. I love the livechat on their website.


Just FYI. I am a 50+ year old woman. "Dude" doesn't apply. :grin2:


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

NVM. Sorry lol


----------



## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

aquanerd13 said:


> NVM. Sorry lol


Ha! Ha! Its okay. :laugh2:


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

My generation says dude to everything and everybody. Its kind of habit.

Bump: I am a -18 year old boy, soooo.


----------



## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

aquanerd13 said:


> My generation says dude to everything and everybody. Its kind of habit.
> 
> Bump: I am a -18 year old boy, soooo.


 I am making a special request- "no dude."
Call me by my name- Amy. 

Ill be very grateful. :smile2:


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Sounds good. So back to my problem. I am terrible at making decisions. What TROPICAL fish (or not fish) ideas do people have?


----------



## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Keep what appeals to YOU. Try things that catch your eye and will work with the set ups and water and such you have available. I know that isn't as fun as mentioning this or that species, but nobody can look at a fish and see exactly what you see. Since you are short on space, if you care to hear it I have some experience in setting up fish rooms. My biggest advice remains to maximize your space. If you have 2 10 gallon tanks, a 20L, a 55, and a 40 breeder -that's taking up your whole room almost no matter how you configure it and is just disorderly and tends to be more dis-pleasant to parents and others who make rules. But (for example) if you have a wall of uniform 20H gallon tanks, you can have two rows of three tanks (3 on top, 3 on bottom) and take up only about 8 feet of wall space. That would be a lot of plant, invert and smaller fish projects to stay on top of. And everything is uniform lined up and wires and cords are neat, proper drip loops and such can be taken care of, and most importantly -observing as well as servicing them will be enhanced. Use another corner of that room to always have a dedicated quarantine tank or two. That dollar per gallon sale might still be going on...


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

The sale is going on. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

If you already have a couple of one size tank, that might be a good starting point. Just duplicate what you've started with. I can get some pretty simple carpentry blueprints dug up if you ever need them!

By the way, the Portland area seems to have a TON of dace, some shiners (including pretty redisdes), killifish, more than a few odds and ends plus salamanders, crustaceans and such. If it appeals to you, it's always cool to be able to pull that off. I'd imagine you'd burn some calories stocking that tank but it would be a really fun idea and we'd all love the tank journal if you decide to hang with some locals!


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

We have killifish? What the heck man(or woman)! Salamanders would be cool. I forgot about crayfish, though after loops planted turtle swamp I am a bit fearful of them eating my fish. WOW THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM GETTING A 20 LONG WITH A BUNCH OF SALAMNDERS AND FROGS AND KILLIFISH AND OH MY GOSH THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(If you noticed I am really happy)


----------



## requiem (Oct 25, 2008)

Hee hee always nice to see another enthusiast. As another life long sufferer of mts, my advice is to not tackle on more projects than you can realistically finish / maintain. Else it leads to frustration and disappointment when your awesome projects suffer from neglect.

Good luck with your project!!


----------



## reddhawkk (Dec 28, 2011)

And while you are setting up your wall of 20's consider a tank with Neolamprologus multifasciatus, a shell dweller from Lake Tanganyika in Africa. And yes, you can have plants in their tank. Some of mine liked the plants better than the shells!


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I love the dwarf shell dwellers. I live out in the country though and our well water is soft and acidic.


----------



## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

It's much easier making water hard and alkaline than the other way around if they really appeal to you. Behavior-wise they're really cool fish.


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Well the changing water thing is good to know. I love the idea of a dart frog vivarium to.


----------



## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

minorhero said:


> You should look into north american native fish. You can collect fish that are living probably a few miles from where you live in streams and ponds for free (assuming you have a fishing license). Similarly you can use only native plants and create a native biotope if biotopes are your thing.


You might want to verify Oregon law regarding collection of different species for your tank. I was under the impression that Oregon didn't allow it, but possibly someone can point to the OAR that allows for it (other than scientific collection) without a permit. A fishing license does not allow you to transport "LIVE" fish and possess them.




aquanerd13 said:


> Sounds good. So back to my problem. I am terrible at making decisions. What TROPICAL fish (or not fish) ideas do people have?


Making decisions are sometimes hard. Sometimes not. If you have to get permission from your parents, then go for the bigger tank in the main room, and a different type in your room. Saltwater tanks give you awesome fish options. If you go with multiple fresh water tanks your parents could want you to just consolidate to the 75gal. BUT...a salt tank can't be combined with a freshwater, so you HAVE TO get a 2nd tank. 

Given the MTS issue you informed us about, if your room is on the second level, and you're planning on adding multiple tanks (or the gorilla rack), you might want to double check your load.

I know this only perpetuates the need for more tanks, but here's some local stores you should check out if you haven't already:

Wet Spot - Good store. Best selection of cichlids.
World of Wet Pets - Good Store. Great variety of fish, different plants, etc. Also offers saltwater fish (or did the last time I was over there)
Critter Cabana - Good Store. Often carries fish seasonally that you won't find anywhere else.

As for species, I am going to stick to smaller tanks (10-20 gal) just in case your parents say no to the massive wall of multiple aquariums. 


You should do a 10g shrimp tank. It can be planted, and it's a great non-fish to keep in a riparium/paludarium with frogs (if you like amphibians).

Or do a wild/boutique Endler tank - (and since the temps work....some nice GBR would work also)https://gallery.endlers1.com/ https://martysfish.com/ Wild Endlers

USA Native fish: 
Red Shiner Cyprinella lutrensis
Gulf Coast Pygmy Sunfish Elassoma gilberti Jonah's Aquarium... Elassoma gilberti, Gulf Coast Pygmy Sunfish 03, Wakulla basin, Gerald Pottern
Florida Flagfish
Candy Darter (Etheostoma osburni) 
Speckled Darter
Rainbow Darter

A school of WCMM look amazing in a planted tank, low maintenance and underrated fish on all accounts. I buy them as feeders and raise them (not as feeders).


----------



## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Pair of Knight goby are nice set up in species 20gal, like a little salt (1tsp/gal) and semi-hard water. Frogbit floating on top for partial shade. One handsome and easy to care for fish. The white edges of fins and especially the spiked dorsal shimmer a pearly blue in the light. Any low light salt tolerant plant like java fern etc will do fine.


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

grizzly_a said:


> You might want to verify Oregon law regarding collection of different species for your tank. I was under the impression that Oregon didn't allow it, but possibly someone can point to the OAR that allows for it (other than scientific collection) without a permit. A fishing license does not allow you to transport "LIVE" fish and possess them.


Probably not relevant to the op, but a quick search of oregon regs showed this:

General Restrictions | Oregon Fishing Regulations ? 2019 | eRegulations

Basically there is a list of fish not allowed to be kept, however this list is hardly inclusive of all species in oregon.


----------



## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

minorhero said:


> Probably not relevant to the op, but a quick search of oregon regs showed this:
> 
> General Restrictions | Oregon Fishing Regulations ? 2019 | eRegulations
> 
> Basically there is a list of fish not allowed to be kept, however this list is hardly inclusive of all species in oregon.



Yeah....that's not going to cover the aquarium hobby as it's meant for angling, and bait.

In short...Oregon prohibits collection unless you get a permit.

"The following Oregon Revised Statutes (ORS) prohibited the capture and transport of live fish in Oregon. ORS’s are legislative rule are rules that guide Oregon Administrative rules (OAR).

ORS 496.004 (18) “Wildlife” means fish, shellfish, amphibians and reptiles, feral swine as defined by State Department of Agriculture rule, wild birds as defined by commission rule and other wild mammals as define by commission rule

ORS 497.308 Wildlife holding and habitat removal permits; rules (1) No person shall remove from its natural habitat or acquire and hold in captivity any live wildlife in violation of the wildlife laws or of any rule promulgated pursuant thereto.

ORS 498.222 Transport or release of fish with permit prohibited; penalties; revocation of angling license and tags; suit for recovery of damages (1) No person shall: Transport any live fish unless the person has first obtained a permit therefore from the State Fish and Wildlife Commission


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

grizzly_a said:


> Yeah....that's not going to cover the aquarium hobby as it's meant for angling, and bait.
> 
> In short...Oregon prohibits collection unless you get a permit.
> 
> ...


This honestly doesn't make sense, I feel like we are missing a vital piece of information here. You can catch fish with a license all day long but if you take them home and they are still gasping out their last breaths you are in violation because they are not quite dead yet? I feel like this is designed to stop people from mixing populations of fish from one location and another not to stop them from taking them home and putting them in an aquarium. I would contact the state fish and wildlife commission and ask for clarification if I lived in oregon because honestly if you catch what oregon folks would call bait fish how else are you supposed to use them as bait unless you transport them? What you have to use them as bait at the exact spot you catch them? Doesn't add up.


----------



## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

minorhero said:


> This honestly doesn't make sense, I feel like we are missing a vital piece of information here. You can catch fish with a license all day long but if you take them home and they are still gasping out their last breaths you are in violation because they are not quite dead yet? I feel like this is designed to stop people from mixing populations of fish from one location and another not to stop them from taking them home and putting them in an aquarium. I would contact the state fish and wildlife commission and ask for clarification if I lived in oregon because honestly if you catch what oregon folks would call bait fish how else are you supposed to use them as bait unless you transport them? What you have to use them as bait at the exact spot you catch them? Doesn't add up.


You must not live in Oregon?!?! Yes, and yes, to what you said. What you described is legal, only the use of live baitfish from the water you're fishing, BUT only in tidal waters. If you do catch the correct type of baitfish (incidentally, it has to be a non-game, non-protected species), it has to be dead if you want to use it in a different water body. If the dead baitfish comes off your hook and you collected it from a different water body, you're in violation of discarding a fish carcass in a different water body. 

Very few anglers in Oregon use live fish as bait, as most bait is frozen and sold in stores. The stuff in stores is legal. (frozen and dyed anchovies, herring, smelt) Same goes for Aquariums. If you can buy it in a petstore, it's legal in Oregon to keep in an aquarium. If you put it in a pond and it gets out....yep...it's illegal.

If you're an ethical angler you would kill your catch before you ever left your fishing spot, so transporting isn't an issue because it's dead.

You also need to wait 3-days before putting your boat in a different body of water and/or wash it out thoroughly inside and out to reduce invasive species (zebra mussel) and submit to inspection along the highway for anything including a stand-up paddleboard, surfboard, etc. (Seriously, I don't make these rules)

Lots of things don't make sense, like how they don't "manage" sport fishing species and game....anyway, that is a different discussion. The whole Tri-State region (OR, WA, ID) is hyper sensitive to invasive species (again another topic), so use of live fish as bait is extremely restricted. Oregon even went so far as to poison an entire lake due to invasive species and has spent millions bringing back the trout fishery and regulating the Tui Chub. 

ODFW provided the ORS and OARS. 

Sorry...off topic. Short answer. Don't do it.


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I wasn't going to collect fish anyways though technically I am a 'felon' for shooting a chipmunk, shooting a woodpecker, 'harassing' canadian geese by chasing them away, and crushing pennys in a vise.


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I love the knight gobys. I might do a pair of GBRs. I heard they need dither fish though. Is this true?


----------



## germanblueramlover (Jun 9, 2013)

No, you don't need dither fish with GBRs... mine were less timid than the dithers, and actually worked to calm the dither fish down!


----------



## KJE (Dec 24, 2017)

DL - I met the owner this past weekend at the ACA . A few beers and a few laughs - fun time


----------



## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

aquanerd13 said:


> I wasn't going to collect fish anyways though technically I am a 'felon' for shooting a chipmunk, shooting a woodpecker, 'harassing' canadian geese by chasing them away, and crushing pennys in a vise.


Careful. A crime spree starting at your age.....you'll be singin' "I fought the law and the law won" (lyrics by the Crickets)


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

lol. I did all with a group of friends, so technically they should go to prison to. I actually never shot a woodpecker, my best friend did.


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I was thinking an sri lankan biotope with cherry barbs, bamboo canes. I was wondering what plants are native to Sri Lanka?


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I found cryptocorene wendtii, temple plant, onion plant, hornwort as a floating plant, and that's it. Anything I am missing? I would do sand and a few rocks, but hardscape would be mostly pieces of bamboo. I need reccomendations on fish. Preferably not gouramis, or perhaps only a pair as I would already have 6 in a different tank. Cherry barbs are the only thing I can think of. I guess a pair of gouramis would be fine.


----------



## TheDukeAnumber1 (Sep 13, 2018)

My 2 cents. Sounds like you are riding a high of interest and motivation which is great. But IMO it's best to expand how many tanks you run slowly. One of the worst things we can to in the hobby is to buy a bunch of tanks and fish and 6 months or a year later find the passion and motivation dwindle and end up with a bunch of under maintained tanks and under cared for fish.

IMO add only add one tank for now and focus your energies on maintaining what you have to a very high standard. Get that 10 gallon running in your room but make that tank in the main area look amazing and a world will open up to you if you manage to impress your folks with it.


----------



## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

TheDukeAnumber1 said:


> My 2 cents. Sounds like you are riding a high of interest and motivation which is great. But IMO it's best to expand how many tanks you run slowly. One of the worst things we can to in the hobby is to buy a bunch of tanks and fish and 6 months or a year later find the passion and motivation dwindle and end up with a bunch of under maintained tanks and under cared for fish.
> 
> IMO add only add one tank for now and focus your energies on maintaining what you have to a very high standard. Get that 10 gallon running in your room but make that tank in the main area look amazing and a world will open up to you if you manage to impress your folks with it.


I agree with this. I'd actually say keep the 10 gallon as your quarantine tank, where you can closely observe and monitor the fish. Learn how to treat any complications if they come up. Make your larger, main display tank the one you focus on making really pretty and getting things right. It makes it easier to maintain and keep up motivation.


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

TheDukeAnumber1 said:


> My 2 cents. Sounds like you are riding a high of interest and motivation which is great. But IMO it's best to expand how many tanks you run slowly. One of the worst things we can to in the hobby is to buy a bunch of tanks and fish and 6 months or a year later find the passion and motivation dwindle and end up with a bunch of under maintained tanks and under cared for fish.
> 
> IMO add only add one tank for now and focus your energies on maintaining what you have to a very high standard. Get that 10 gallon running in your room but make that tank in the main area look amazing and a world will open up to you if you manage to impress your folks with it.


I am watching all the green aqua videos, trying to get tips. They have been super helpful. I don't have anywhere near enough money to buy all the tanks in probably the next year, much less 6 months. This is planning for future. Thank you though for the helpful advice.



varanidguy said:


> I agree with this. I'd actually say keep the 10 gallon as your quarantine tank, where you can closely observe and monitor the fish. Learn how to treat any complications if they come up. Make your larger, main display tank the one you focus on making really pretty and getting things right. It makes it easier to maintain and keep up motivation.


I was going to buy a 20 long as the quarantine tank, and whenever i needed it I would take the cascade 200 off the main tank and put it in there.(I have a 525 GPH canister filter also on the main tank).


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

What size tank would be good for 12 cherry barbs, 8 khuli loaches, and 4 sparkling gouramis? 40 gallo breeder? I could skip the gouramis if necessary.


----------



## ontheedge (May 2, 2019)

I've had so much fun with my invert-only nano! My 29-gal originally had 12 RCS, plus guppies and a real wuss of a Betta (he doesn't bother anything in the tank). Then I noticed... I wasn't getting any baby shrimp. Then, I had 10 shrimp... then 7... then 4! (Yes, I have a sponge on my intake). SOMEONE was poaching my RCS while I wasn't looking! (I suspect my female guppies were harassing them at night.)

So I fired up a 5.5 nano, using filter media and plants from the 29 gal to help cycle it. I ordered another 10 shrimp. A few weeks later I had 20 shrimp, now I have some 40+ babies and adults. I enjoy the shrimp's antics so much, I'd really encourage you to have an invert-only. I fell in love with nerite snails, too, so I have about 12 spread between 3 tanks.

I've learned that the full-grown adult shrimp can hold their own in the tank with the fish, so I've removed a few adults to help with algae (they are amazing grazers!) but the babies romp all around my fish-free nano. They come running for their favorite foods, too- hilarious. I'm so glad I have it.


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I am already planning on using a 1.5 gallon nano for shrimp, and a 10 gallon to perhaps breed CRS and make some money$$.

Bump: I had a cherry shrimp and an amano but they got eaten by a platy I used to have. The cherry had babies but then my neon tetras ate them. I loved them before they died. Could I have a colony of shrimp in a 75 gallon densely planted tank with 6 honey gouramis and 10 panda corys and 25 neon tetras? I know they would be eaten, but could they reproduce fast enough?


----------



## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

aquanerd13 said:


> What size tank would be good for 12 cherry barbs, 8 khuli loaches, and 4 sparkling gouramis? 40 gallo breeder? I could skip the gouramis if necessary.


 Khulis can be a bear.... They are tipically never seen during the day, require soft water, and will often jump out of the tank during the day (so it needs a lid of sorts).


I do not consider them a beginner fish. But for 8- at least a 20 gallon.... with no other fish.
Sounds to me like you are trying to 'build' too fast. Slow and steady wins the race.....


----------



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Ok thank you. Loaches are a no go I guess.(Or just Khulis?) So I did some more research and in the far future would like to do a paludarium with red claw thai crabs and either sparkling gouramis or cherry barbs.


----------

