# Do you need an air pump ?



## SKYE.__.HIGH (Mar 18, 2017)

Hello I have a ADA 120-P, I will be setting up my tank in roughly a month. I will be having a large school of rummy nose tetras and some German blue rams or Bolivian rams. I want good co2 in the tank because it will be high tech. Can I run my air pump/ air stone all night long when my co2 isn't on, would that be enough oxygen for the fish to last through out the day. But at the same time not waist my co2 so much.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

You really get most of the o2 from the bubbles disturbing the surface and not the bubbles themselves when using an air stone. 

You will get more than enough oxygen during the day from the plants alone so you would not need to run an air stone during the day. As you said it will make you have to run more co2 due to the off gassing

With that said I run a powerhead that ripples the surface. This in turn gives more o2 for the fish during the day. You typically don't need to do this but this allows you to run even more co2 without gassing your fish as easily. 

To give you an example I usually run 40ppm of co2 due to good surface movement from my powerhead. If my powerhead was not disturbing the surface I know the fish would struggle with the same 40ppm of co2. Gas is cheap so I am not concerned with having to use more co2. 

All in all I just feel it's better to have good surface movement 24/7 while giving the extra o2 and being able to run more co2. 


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## SKYE.__.HIGH (Mar 18, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> You really get most of the o2 from the bubbles disturbing the surface and not the bubbles themselves when using an air stone.
> 
> You will get more than enough oxygen during the day from the plants alone so you would not need to run an air stone during the day. As you said it will make you have to run more co2 due to the off gassing
> 
> ...




Thank you very much, to be honest I really had no clue how much oxygen the fish would need and I didn't really know that the plants would give that much o2, but I should have thought of photosynthesis. I didn't even think of the plants LOL. Thank you very much glad to know I don't even need one.


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

It depends on the type of filter you have also, if you have a hang on back for example you shouldn't need an air stone


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Wanted to add many actually will turn on something like a powerhead and or air stone at night when their co2 turns off. This does a couple things. It helps to offgas the unused co2 from the day and also adds more o2. At night after lights off plants will stop giving off o2 and actually use some. So why it's a good idea to have some movement on surface at least at night when co2 is off and plants resting. It's usually not an issue but for those that are heavily over stocked with fish and have tons of plants the o2 could drop pretty fast if you have a very still top of tank with no movement. 


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## dealend (Oct 29, 2016)

You dont really have to generate your own O2 with an air pump for high tech planted tank with fish.

Your plants will produce O2 during the photosynthetis, this is natural way how to process O2.

Plant will produce O2 (you see some bubble/pearling from the plant) when there is enough co2 and light during the time of photosynthetis. Quite a few plants doesn't pearling.

Just control your CO2 little by little everyday to the max and check if your fish is not gassing out. Most people use bubble counter for their co2.

To me i like it natural way, but also its a good thing to have an air pump with air stone for my backup (911 emergency).

Forgot to mention, the fish that you will be having. Doesnt not required a lot of oxygen. So during the night should be good.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

dealend said:


> Forgot to mention, the fish that you will be having. Doesnt not required a lot of oxygen. So during the night should be good.




Agree. Why I said unless you are extremely over stocked it's really not needed at night either. 


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## dealend (Oct 29, 2016)

clownplanted said:


> Agree. Why I said unless you are extremely over stocked it's really not needed at night either.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have 50+ fish in one of my 29 gallon high tech tank, i know its overcrowded. All are mixed with german ram,angel fish,corry, guppies, and mixed of tetra they are doing fine and wiggle their tail when the feeding time is coming.

Also I have learned how to kill fish when i just started the hobbies.


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

> All are mixed with german ram,angel fish,corry, guppies, and mixed of tetra


I see hard water fish mixed with soft water fish here and one group wont be as happy as you think.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

We often speak of "waste" with CO2 but when we look close, it may not be the problem it sounds. Waste perhaps, but is it anything to worry about when we get real? I might guess that the loss to the air is far, far less loss than one simple mistake leaving a leak! 
Good to think of potential waste but I spend far more effort to assure I don't REALLY waste a tank full of gas due to not testing for leaks.


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## dealend (Oct 29, 2016)

NickAu said:


> I see hard water fish mixed with soft water fish here and one group wont be as happy as you think.


Yes those fish lives as a group in the same tank with over 300++ TDS.

Especially the Ram, they live but probably not showing their full color. So far still shown some yellow, black and little blue.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

I think the notion that an air stone dramatically reduces CO2 is not quite accurate and there is some advantage in elevated O2 and CO2. I run a bubble bar with or without DIY Bio-CO2 believing that it better ensures balance in my low to medium tech tank....but each to his own school of thought and perhaps the rules bend for high tech (where maybe you need to push higher CO2 relative to O2?).


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

AbbeysDad said:


> I think the notion that an air stone dramatically reduces CO2 is not quite accurate and there is some advantage in elevated O2 and CO2. I run a bubble bar with or without DIY Bio-CO2 believing that it better ensures balance in my low to medium tech tank....but each to his own school of thought and perhaps the rules bend for high tech (where maybe you need to push higher CO2 relative to O2?).




I don't run a airstone but a couple powerheads providing a lot of surface agitation. Same concept at the airstone though. It really depends on how much surface agitation is happening. To give you an idea I was running 4.5bps getting 35ppm of co2 with no surface movement. I verified many times the co2 level and accurate bps. Then after running the two powerheads at the surface causing a lot of good surface movement and flow I had to turn up my co2 to 10bps to get the same co2 level of 35ppm again verified many times the co2 and bps levels. Now not all will be same but gives you an idea how much more co2 is needed. 

I noticed that the plants and inhabitants seem happier with more surface movement and I do not mind using the extra co2 required as it's cheap. 

There sure is advantage to surface movement whether by airstone or hob filter or powerheads as you can actually run more co2 due to higher o2 levels you are providing with the surface movement. To give you an idea I run 45ppm of co2 safely and all inhabitants are happy and the plants sure enjoy the higher level of co2. With no surface movement they would for sure be at the surface gasping for oxygen at that level of co2


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