# best temp for crypts???



## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Tank Temperature*



wetworks said:


> Right now most of my tanks are in the 72-73 F range. I have heaters, but do not use them ever. Would it be better for my crypts if I were to heat my tanks to a higher temperature? If so, then what temp should be my target? Thanks!


Hello wet...

I think your water is too cool. Most aquatic plants I'm familiar with are tropical and used to warmer temperatures. I keep my tank heaters set between 76 and 78 degrees.



B


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I try to maintain 76-78 range.


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

Thanks guys! I thought that might be the case- in my Fluval Edge the temp is closer to 79 F and my crypts grow like crazy! And, usually the temp in my house is at 70 F, so most of my tanks that don't have the halogen lights are usually in the 72-74 range. As an experiment I am going to put a heater in my 15g rare crypt grow-out tank and see how they fare.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

78* is pushing the upper limit for these guys to be happy. I had a heat mat malfunction that put them at 80* and they all melted and I lost about 2/3s of them. I would keep it @ 75* at best.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

We keep our house 62-68 in the winter depending on if we are home. so I do get fluctuations. Maybe I'm getting away with my upper level time periods because it fluctuates?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Frank, 78* is what I would call the upper limit. If you hit 80* you will start to see some losses. Of course the first ones to go are the rare and expensive ones  Sorry for the confusion.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

I agree with these guys, anything above 75 and below 80 is probably more ideal, but with most Cryps I don't think your temps would make much difference. I have routinely kept Cryps at room temp around 68 to 70 without any problems, and I know some people who keep them in even lower temps with goldfish.

The most important thing is not to have too large a temp change too quickly as this can trigger Cryp melt. That is a very frustrating thing to have happen! I have also kept Cryps above 80, the key is acclimation. Any significant temp change up or down suddenly can trigger a melt down. then you have to wait for them to grow back again. Fluctuation in temp is normal, its sudden spikes that are a problem.


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

I am lucky enough to live in Florida where I typically need to cool stuff down rather than warm it up. I keep the AC set on 70 F in the summer and the heat on the same for the two or three days a year I use it. I have been keeping most of my plants with the exception of the Fluval Edge (because of the lights) at right around 72-74 F. I want to try to get the best growth out of my 15g crypt grow out tank, hence the temp manipulation. I had read that some of these plants can be found in super hot areas where the water temp is closer to 84 F, and figured that 78 F would be a good target. Should I reconsider this?

PS- If it makes any difference, I use the same digital thermometers for my tanks for accuracy, and I have relatively decent control over my heaters; I am open to suggestions...


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Chad - I understand. I think controlled fluctuations are more natural. My W/C change temps are definitely not 78degrees.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

wetworks said:


> ... I had read that some of these plants can be found in super hot areas where the water temp is closer to 84 F, and figured that 78 F would be a good target. Should I reconsider this?
> ...


I think in a Sp. tank you can tune your parameters a little easier that keeping multiple sp. in the same tank. Part of the reason I have 41 C. Becketti in my 40g and no other Crypts.

For more than one sp. you just need to find the ave, that works well with them all. Pics are a good way to monitor growth as you can compare growth more objectively than bu memory.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

Wetworks-Go for it, but I wouldn't suggest raising it 8 to 10 degrees all at once. Do it 2 or 3 degrees at a time over a few days to avoid a melt down to play it safe. Cryp melt is unpredictable, but sudden changes put the plant into shock and make it more likely.


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## picotank (Dec 6, 2011)

My crypts grow crazy fast in 72 deg water.................. I'd leave your water where you have it if you can.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

Are there any real evidences that cypts would melt at temp above 80? I have one Green Gecko that has never melted a single leaf. I have 2 giant Wendtii Red that melted all the way down to the roots. Not much to save now. However, I have one giant wendtii red is doing OK, like your typical crypts that melt 1 or 2 leaves once a while for no reasons.


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

DogFish said:


> I think in a Sp. tank you can tune your parameters a little easier that keeping multiple sp. in the same tank. Part of the reason I have 41 C. Becketti in my 40g and no other Crypts.
> 
> For more than one sp. you just need to find the ave, that works well with them all. Pics are a good way to monitor growth as you can compare growth more objectively than bu memory.


Right now I have the following in the tank: 

*Flora:*
Anubias nana “Petite”
Cryptocoryne albida
Cryptocoryne affinis “metallic red” (Pahang Barat)
Cryptocoryne affinis (unknown location)
Cryptocoryne cordata “Blassii” 
Cryptocoryne cordata “KR01” 
Cryptocoryne cordata “Thailand”
Cryptocoryne cordata “Rosanervig”
Cryptocoryne ferruginea (Sg. Sempit)
Cryptocoryne keei (Jambusan)
Cryptocoryne longicauda (Pudingbesar) 
Cryptocoryne moehlmanni 
Cryptocoryne noritoi 
Cryptocoryne pygmae 
Cryptocoryne retrospiralis
Cryptocoryne striolata (Lundu)
1 Mystery crypt- too small to tell what it is yet

*Fauna:*
Red Cherry Shrimps
Malaysian Trumpet Snails
4 Otocinclus Catfish

Any recommendations based on that?


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

Robert H said:


> Wetworks-Go for it, but I wouldn't suggest raising it 8 to 10 degrees all at once. Do it 2 or 3 degrees at a time over a few days to avoid a melt down to play it safe. Cryp melt is unpredictable, but sudden changes put the plant into shock and make it more likely.


Thanks Robert H, this is the sort of info I was looking for. I set the thermostat at 74 F for today, and will increase it to 78 F over the next few days.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

tetra73 said:


> Are there any real evidences that cypts would melt at temp above 80?


I don't think the Temp in itself is the sole factor. I think it's more the effect of temp on the water chemistry as that stimulates the Crypt to form new leaves to adapt to the changed environment.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

tetra73-Well there are literally tens of thousands of Cryps grown every year in Florida outdoors where the temp is well over 80 degrees for much of the summer, and part of the winter.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

Robert H said:


> tetra73-Well there are literally tens of thousands of Cryps grown every year in Florida outdoors where the temp is well over 80 degrees for much of the summer, and part of the winter.



Good to hear. I am in NYC and NYC summer isn't all that cool...


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

tetra73 said:


> Good to hear. I am in NYC and NYC summer isn't all that cool...


The temp here is usually pretty moderate, but it is often subject to wide swings. It was 32 F here on Sunday, and 77 F here yesterday. Fortunately this only happens about twice a year.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Keep in mind water conducts heat +/- at a much higher rate than air. Factor in wind/fans as a cooling effect. Emersed grown plants in 80+ temps are not the same as submersed in 80 degree water.

Each leaf form of a crypt is designed for that environment. Even a the equator water 2' under surface is not 80+ degrees. Many crypts are steam an river habitat plants and running water is not typically running hot.

So, knowing the sp. natural habitat is an important factor.


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

DogFish said:


> Keep in mind water conducts heat +/- at a much higher rate than air. Factor in wind/fans as a cooling effect. Emersed grown plants in 80+ temps are not the same as submersed in 80 degree water.
> 
> Each leaf form of a crypt is designed for that environment. Even a the equator water 2' under surface is not 80+ degrees. Many crypts are steam an river habitat plants and running water is not typically running hot.
> 
> So, knowing the sp. natural habitat is an important factor.


I think that the only sp. in my list that may need different conditions from the others are C. striolata and C. longicauda. Not sure though, I will look into it in the next day or so.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crypts like warm feet...i think a warm substrate/roots is more important than the water column temp imo.




- thefisherman


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> crypts like warm feet...i think a warm substrate/roots is more important than the water column temp imo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had read this as well, but I noticed that few if any TPT crypt keepers heat their substrate. Does anyone here do this? Any recommendations for this?


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

wetworks said:


> I had read this as well, but I noticed that few if any TPT crypt keepers heat their substrate. Does anyone here do this? Any recommendations for this?


From what I read, substrate heating has no scientific proofs if it works or not. It was all the rage years ago. I haven't read a single posts on the message board about substrate heating. I assume most of us don't even bother.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

wetworks said:


> I had read this as well, but I noticed that few if any TPT crypt keepers heat their substrate. Does anyone here do this? Any recommendations for this?


on the crypt pages they show a tank sitting on a DIY light box that acts as a heater specifically to warm the substrate. this looks awesome solution for a dirt crypt tank but, since most of my special crypts are pitted emersed, i just heat the water. 


- thefisherman


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> on the crypt pages they show a tank sitting on a DIY light box that acts as a heater specifically to warm the substrate. this looks awesome solution for a dirt crypt tank but, since most of my special crypts are pitted emersed, i just heat the water.
> 
> 
> - thefisherman



I kind of thought that was the case. It seems to me to be more bother for not much benefit. If we had some actual data for this, I would probably be more inclined to do it.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

My crypts grow much better in my cooler tanks (72-74) then my warmer tanks (78+) just my experience though.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

tetra73 said:


> From what I read, substrate heating has no scientific proofs if it works or not. It was all the rage years ago. I haven't read a single posts on the message board about substrate heating. I assume most of us don't even bother.


Well yes as far as the heater creating thermal currents in the substrate. That was what the big buzz was about.

Here we are talking about keeping the roots & rhizome warm. The idea is a carry over from terrestrial gardening. Keeping the roots warm stimulates growth in seedlings and young plants.

I've had much better luck with my emerged crypts in pots in heated water than when I just kept them in a fully dirtied tank.


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## looking4roselines (Mar 28, 2008)

I bought an inline heater for my 90 gallon tank with the intention of installing it before winter hits. I got lazy and didnt get around to it but the tank evidently do not need it. The temperature maintained itself ~70 from the heat generated by the two internal waterpumps and two canister filters. The room temperature is also controlled at a constant 70. Crypts are growing and the fishes doesnt seem to mind at all.


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Low 70's is fine. Don't mess with temperatures, keep them stable.

-Gordon


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I use this on some humidity dome and notice better growth lately at 76* than those without heat at 70*. By lately I mean this winter in cold IL. In the summer they both did about the same because there was no heat mat.

http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=3352


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## wetworks (Jul 22, 2011)

chad320 said:


> I use this on some humidity dome and notice better growth lately at 76* than those without heat at 70*. By lately I mean this winter in cold IL. In the summer they both did about the same because there was no heat mat.
> 
> http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=3352


What about for submersed growth?


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