# ICH medication ok with plants?



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

You sorta have to treat the whole tank because ich gets everywhere....
It depends what ich meds you go... I think a lot of them will harm the plants. But I think the 'copper safe' ones might be ok.

you can try a safer method until you get the meds you want. Do a 50% water change (that'll reduce the ich population in half)... and then increase the water temp to 82-86F (that'll increase the ich life cycle)... Add a tablespoon of aquarium salt for every 5-10 gallons...(that'll disrupt the life cycle)..

oh, turn off the co2..and add lots of aeration to the tank.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Just turn the heat up and if you can do a gravel clean cause that's where ich ends up.

Salt will kill plants at the amount above. Stick with high temps and water changes. Should be about a week or two before it gets better.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

Well I got bad news, woke up to more than half of my rummies dead. I'm just going to treat the whole tank. I've been using salt, always have, and I thought it was helping but then just 2 days ago it seems like they all have another outbreak. 

My blue rams got it too now, man if I lose all these fish that is a lot of money.


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## argblarg (Aug 7, 2006)

Turn your temperature up slowly to 86 degrees. Within two days the fish should have less or no white spots left. Then leave it there for two weeks and do a good gravel vac. I wouldn't worry about the salt, especially with plants. No need to use the medicine either since the heat method works.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

argblarg said:


> Turn your temperature up slowly to 86 degrees. Within two days the fish should have less or no white spots left. Then leave it there for two weeks and do a good gravel vac. I wouldn't worry about the salt, especially with plants. No need to use the medicine either since the heat method works.


heat alone won't work. Heat doesn't kill the ich, it just speed up their metabolism.. OH!.. if you have a UV sterilizer, I've heard people use that with success.

And Ich gets everywhere not just the substrate... On the plants too.


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## argblarg (Aug 7, 2006)

http://aquafacts.net/wiki/index.php/Ich said:


> Temperatures at or above 86°F are generally considered to be fatal to ich.


It sure worked for me and several over people I know.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Well, you can go that course. But from what I understand, the ich that's on the fish reproduces and the cysts(baby ichs) falls off the fish and the 'white spots' heals up... And the heat just speeds up this process. Yes, the ich is gone from the fish but there are many more ich in the water and will reinfect the fish or other fish.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

Man I think my whole pack for 25 rummies are not going to make it. Hopefully my 5 german blue rams will, they are doing still pretty good though. I got these fish at a wholesale price so it won't hurt as much but still it's a lot of money to me. These are wild caught also and I probably had the disease right when I got them and didn't notice it. When I did I just added more salt, it seemed to work but another outbreak and this time I think it's too late.

Imagine losing 25 rummies, 35 cardinals, 5 blue rams, at retail price...:icon_surp


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

Well I don't want to get off track here and just talk about my fishes. I'm torn between my fishes and my plants. My plants haven't been doing so well lately too because I believe my lighting is too much. Then I just got a whole bunch of Blyxa Japonica yesterday and I really want to use Co2 and dose all my ferts. Hopefully this copper safe medication will not harm them or any of my other plants.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Oh and another thing... I think you can take out the plants and put them somewhere else without fish... for like 3 weeks.. Ich need fish to live and if there's no fish or snails they just die. But you have to isolate the plants or tank for quite a while.


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## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Raise the temperature about 4 degrees. Add on tbsp of salt per 5 gallons of water in your tank every other day. You will see the ich disappear. I have never had success with Quickcure or similar meds. They always killed my plants and seemed to stress the fish more.

-Ryan


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

my main tank just got over a case of persistent ich.

i initally tried maracide (the new formulation) for 2 treatment cycles (12 days), but it didn't help much. in fact the ick came back stronger, as one would expect, with it spreading to rams and swordtails from the cardinal tetras. 

i cranked up the heat to 86, then tried quick cure. the first cycle, i used 1 drop/2 gal, what they recommend for tetras. well, it didn't do squat, so for the second cycle, i went full strength. i figured the ich would kill the fish if not stopped soon, so i took a chance. the next day, all fish were spotless, with exception of one smaller card, who had just one spot on his adipose fin. day after that, all fish no spots. it's been 5 days and no fish show ich. 

other fish (include ottos, cory, and glowlight tetras) did not show any ich and were not adversely affected by the quick cure. 

plants include java fern/moss, anubias, glosso, hygro, ludwigia brevipes, l. ovalis, l. inclinata, limnophila aromatica, cryptocoryne wendtii red/bronze, and c. affinis. none of these plants were affected.

with respect to inverts, snails (mts, pond, ramshorn) were not affected. i have only 1 or 2 ghost shrimp, and i have yet to seem them, so they may have succumbed.

quick cure for sure.

i am not affiliated with the company--just a satisfied customer.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

Dam I just bought coppersafe this morning. What is quick cure, is that the company name or just the brand name? Where did you get it, I'm going to get it ASAP. Even if it doesn't work, I'm willing to invest more money to save the last 18 cardinals and 5 blue rams.


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

mnsnowdaboy said:


> Dam I just bought coppersafe this morning. What is quick cure, is that the company name or just the brand name? Where did you get it, I'm going to get it ASAP. Even if it doesn't work, I'm willing to invest more money to save the last 18 cardinals and 5 blue rams.


quick cure is made by aquarium products. don't use the coppersafe unless you want tank full of melted plants and rotting inverts. most lfs carry qc. it'll be worth the 3 bucks to save $50 worth of fish. a heater will help too. it WILL help. it will stain your silicone. dose after lights out.

i kept my lighting, c02, and fert schedule while treating. plants kept growing.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

Ooops coppersafe is in the water, I'll buy the new stuff and do a 40% water change tomorrow.


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

mnsnowdaboy said:


> Ooops coppersafe is in the water, I'll buy the new stuff and do a 40% water change tomorrow.


do a 100% wc asap, if you are concerned about plants and inverts.

ps check out my previous post, i was editing it when you posted your response.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

milesm said:


> quick cure is made by aquarium products. don't use the coppersafe unless you want tank full of melted plants and rotting inverts. most lfs carry qc. it'll be worth the 3 bucks to save $50 worth of fish. a heater will help too. it WILL help. it will stain your silicone. dose after lights out.
> 
> i kept my lighting, c02, and fert schedule while treating. plants kept growing.


Ok going to go buy quick cure, do I need to remove the charcoal bag in my filter?

EDIT: Ok got it, looks generic haha and I think I've used these a long time ago when I was a kid. Well I took out the charcoal bag in my XP2, well see what happens. I'll update daily.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

I have had great results with just high heat and waterchanges/gravel cleans.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

It's hard to do a lot of gravel vac when you got a planted tank. Also I think for now one I want to just leave my water temp high. I know that blue rams prefer mid 80's temp but what about cardinals, rummie nose, and Ottos. Those are the only fish that I have or will stock again.

Maybe if I can just keep these guys in warm water there will be less chance of diseases then I don't have to go through this again.


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

mnsnowdaboy said:


> It's hard to do a lot of gravel vac when you got a planted tank. Also I think for now one I want to just leave my water temp high. I know that blue rams prefer mid 80's temp but what about cardinals, rummie nose, and Ottos. Those are the only fish that I have or will stock again.
> 
> Maybe if I can just keep these guys in warm water there will be less chance of diseases then I don't have to go through this again.


rams and cards appreciate higher temps, mid 80's ok. my ottos survived the 86 for a week. i have never kept any rummynoses. 

i think you want more consistent temps. my cards got ich after i didn't quarantine a few a couple of weeks earlier, and also we experienced a cold wave (mid 50's overnight), and i didn't have a heater in my tank to prevent the rapid temp decline. the forecast calls for another cold spell, so i'll keep the heater on, aiming for 82 - 83.

have you seen any improvement with the quick cure?

ps. i did a massive wc and saw my ghost shrimp, so apparently they can withstand high temps and quick cure/maracide.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

Well 5 rummies survive out of the 26, but they still got some ICH dots. The cardinals are doing pretty well, only a few has them. The rams are showing improvement too from yesterday. All my fishes are starting to be active again but not cured yet. Atleast they are eating. :icon_smil

As for the plants, all are doing well so far.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

well it's been what 4 days and all fish are back to being healthy. Plants didn't seem to be affected. Although I just got my Blyxa J. before the treatment, it started to melt bad. So I gave it to my brother to put in his tank. I'm not sure if it was the medication or maybe just my AS since I've heard that AS can melt plants if they are not suitable for it.

Thanks milesm, you saved me a bunch on money. Now still got 20+cardinals, 5 rams, and uhhmmm 6 rummies:icon_frow . Hey atleast some of the rummies survive. :icon_smil


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2005)

It was a smart decision on your part to go for the medic. Usually, ich can be rid of by raising the temp., add salt (1 tbsp/5 gallon) and daily water changes. Blacking out the tank for the initial two days also helps too, but since it's a planted tank, that's not an option. However, there are certain strains of ich that defies this method of treatment. When that happens and you notice that it's not working, you have no other choice by to medicate your tank.
What you might want to keep in mind is. Quick cure is a carcinogenic product. It's a pretty lethal medication and you may have given your fish an extention in life, but some; only a very few, may in the future just wither and die (possibly of cancer) or mayby other causes. Anyway, that's not a concern because there are many other factors that could kill your fish.
Moving on to the plants, you might expect your plants to be stunt for a few months. It will grow slower than a normal plant, but will resume it's normal growth after it clear it's system of the medication that was absorbed during your treatment. Unhealthy and newly planted plant will melt or wither as can be expected.
One last thing. To prevent the ick from comming back in a month or so, make sure you continue to medicate for 5-7 days after the last sign of the ich you see on the fish. Otherwise, it will comeback with a vengeance.


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## mnsnowdaboy (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm just going to keep my temp around 85 degrees, add salt and go from there. My plants are doing pretty good now since I'm doing regular dosing on ferts. I just should have done this from the start but I thought I took care of the problem and it came back, with a vengence and killed a lot of fish.


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## frisbeedog (Feb 26, 2007)

Should you have salt in a planted tank ? I always used salt in tropical tank years ago in college but I thought I read that salt raises the PH since it binds with the water acids ( hydroxyl ions ? ) ... so Im not using it in my new tank. I live in AZ with very hard water, my PH is already about 7.4 .


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## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

i live in AZ also. I don't know about it raising the pH but I know you don't need salt in planted tanks. Some plants are very salt sensitive also.


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