# 1st Planted Tank (Need Some Help Please)



## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Hello All,

So this is my first planted tank that I started about a week ago and needed some help. Here are the current spec's on this tank:

Tank Size: 10 gallons
Lighting: Life-Glo 18" 15W T8 6700K
DIY CO2 (Yeast-Sugar) Reactor
Current water temp: ~77 F

Plants:
Lilaeopsis
Rotala Macranda (pet store owner gave to me for free for some reason)

Well here are my questions. I did a pH test on this tank this afternoon and found the pH level to be about 8.2 or something like that (my pH testing kit only goes up to 7.6 so based on the color would be around an 8.2 or so). Is this bad for my plants? And if I ever wanted to put shrimp and or cardinal tetras in would this be harmful to them? If so how could I change the pH level without harming the plants? (I have another 10g tank with 1 angel, 4 corys, 1 loach, and two 6" sword plants at a pH level at around 7.6 and all have seemed to be fine for the past year).

I had 6 tetra that the pet store owner gave me as well but after putting them in the new tank had about an hour life before passing away and leaving me feeling really bad and wondering what is wrong with my tank. Could my DIY CO2 reactor be throwing off balance in my tank and causing my pH levels to go out of whack? Also, I am almost positive that the tetras needed more oxygen since all of them were at the top of the tank pretty much gasping their lasts breaths. I really don't know what to do since this is really my 1st planted tank and I know later in time would like to have fish and shrimp in my tank.

Please help me with any suggestions that yall might have in helping me with my new planted tank.

Thanks.


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## anchlo (Aug 4, 2009)

I am new to planted tanks as well... I have done a lot of research prior to staring my tank (75gal) and have found it beneficial to cycle the tank prior to adding any fish... that being said I have added 6 SAES since day one and found them to be VERY hardy!!!! and excellent in the algae dept...

It has been almost a month and I have just added a pair of GBR (blue rams)... 

dont know if thats your prob with the tetras but it might be....

****I just remembered when I bought my SAES MY LFS put a lemon tetra in the bag by accident... the next day all SAES were alive and the tetra was stuck to the filter! :angel:

this probably didnt help... oh well


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## CFlux (Aug 31, 2009)

So just a few thoughts on what could have happened. First you de-chlorinated the water before adding fish correct? You mentioned you had another tank so I assume you did. So assuming the water was conditioned your ph sounds really high. I don't think tetras are usually recommended for much above like 7.6-7.8.

So if they were used to say 7.6 and if you didn't drip acclimate them then they probably didn't have a chance. I think if you slowly bring them from their ph to your tanks ph they should be ok. Probably the best way is to get another tank at your local tap ph/close to your lfs ph and then slowly add water from your planted tank until their ph's match then move the fish.

Another possibility is you need more oxygen in the water, do you have any surface agitation or is it pretty still? You may need to consider adding an air stone or reducing the co2 levels if they need more oxygen.

I belive c02 reduces ph usually. You mentioned DIY are you using baking soda/sodium bicarbonate in your mixture? If so if any of that mixture got into your tank it could explain the high ph. Also some types of rocks could raise your ph. 

Here are a couple of threads that talk about lowing ph:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...rs/92342-peat-moss-lower-ph-soften-water.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/70391-lowering-ph-safe-way.html

Sorry this isn't more helpful, but hopefully this gives you some places to start investigating. 

Good Luck!


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## radwaste (Aug 5, 2009)

What Substrate are you using? That can really affect PH, is it the same kind in both tanks.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Yeah I did de-chlorinate before adding fish. I pretty much did the same water conditioning procedure as I did with my other tank that I have had for quite some time. 

As for the pH levels any suggestion is helpful. Not know what could be the problem I'm willing to take all the advice I can get to try to find what the solution could be. I currently do not have an air stone in my tank and there really isn't any surface agitation that could possibly release off some CO2 and put oxygen into the tank.

The DIY reactor just has 1/2 cup sugar, 1/2 a teaspoon dry yeast, and filled the 1.83L bottle up 1/3 of water. I have not added any baking soda/sodium bicarbonate to the mixture at all. I also added a check valve to try to prevent the mixture from maybe syphoning into the tank.

As for the rocks this is what I use: (Use same for both tanks)
http://www.petco.com/product/107318/PETCO-Black-Aquarium-Gravel.aspx

Also thanks for the other links I'll be sure to check them out.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Recent pH test as of 10:50am:

10g Tank (One with fish): 7.6pH
10g Tank (Planted): 7.8 - 8.2pH
Tap Water: 7.0 - 7.2pH

Really don't know what could be altering the tank so much.


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

Was the tank cycled when you added the tetras to the tank? I have killed so many fish because of that. lol. What kinda gravel are you using? If it is regular gravel, I suggest you buying some pretty good substrates like flourite, eco, As, etc. I was where you were when I started too. How big the the bottle you using for the co2?


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

ddtran46 said:


> Was the tank cycled when you added the tetras to the tank? I have killed so many fish because of that. lol. What kinda gravel are you using? If it is regular gravel, I suggest you buying some pretty good substrates like flourite, eco, As, etc. I was where you were when I started too. How big the the bottle you using for the co2?


Yeah, I cycled the tank the same way that I did with my previous tank. Maybe not good enough though. I just bought some water conditioner so I am going to add that in and let my tank cycle for another couple of days before I add fish again.

I think that I will go ahead and buy some substrates when I get the extra cash but for now I am using: http://www.petco.com/product/107318/...um-Gravel.aspx

As for the CO2 bottle I am using it is 1.83L bottle almost 2L and I put in 1/2 cup sugar, 1/2 teaspoon yeast, and filled it about 1/3 of the way up the bottle with water. I really don't know how much CO2 its pumping out but it looks to be somewhere around 20 bubbles or more a min. (How many should be coming out)? Also, I just added a bubbler at the top of my tank as well to get some surface irritation like someone suggested to me as well on the forum. I am thinking about adding 'pH down' to the tank as well but also wanted some input on that if any of this will affect the plants I currently got in there. 

Well let me know what you think. And if anyone else has suggestions please let me know so I can get this tank up and running :smile: . Oh and also how long should I leave my light on everyday? I was reading some people leave it on around 8 - 12hrs a day. Is this good?

Thanks.


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

Do you have any live stock in there now? If not then take out the bubble counter. I never used the ph down but it might be harmful to the plants(not sure). I have mines about 1 bubble per 3 seconds, so that's 20 per minute also. I leave my lights on for 10 hours a day and I have a little algae here and there(high light tank). I recommend you getting a cheap drop checker to help check if your co2 is sufficient.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

By bubble counter do you mean turn off the bubbler?

And where could I get a cheap drop checker? I don't think I have seen one in the LFS just online at ADG and stuff and even that is really expensive.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

You picked a really unforgiving starter plant with the microsword (Lilaeopsis brasiliensis). It takes forever to get acclimated and I dont think your 15 watt lightbulb is going to cut it. Are you planning on increasing your lighting, or staying low light? 

Either way, Id pack that thing full of plants (easy low light plants!) before algae can get a foothold. It looks good though. Keep us updated.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Yeah,

After getting the plants and then reading about it I realized that I picked a very hard starter plant (especially the Rotala Macranda). After reading some sites they say the care for them is VERY HARD! But oh well. I will try my best for a starter, but you can beat free plants from the LFS.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Hey All,

So after getting input from many of yall here on the forum this is what the tank looks like now :icon_mrgr .

As you can see from the picture I made some pretty major changes to my tank. First off I ended up taking out my black rock gravel and putting in some eco-complete planted aquarium substrate that I got at my LFS:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9087

I also added my drift wood that I had boiling for about 3 days now into the tank. (Also attacked some moss to it. Really don't know what kind it is just got it a the LFS). I also bought some more plants the the LFS employee said should not be to hard to maintain. I don't know what they are since they were not labeled at the store but maybe one of yall can tell me what it is. LoL. Its the tall planted section on the left side of the picture and the tall plant(s) on the right side of the picture. Another change that I ended up doing is I spread out my 'micro sword' along the bottom of the tank instead of having it in bushes. I heard that it would help with the coverage that I am trying t go for.

So, so far so good. The only plant that I am looking to get now is 'dwarf hair grass' if I can find any, but other thank that I am pretty sure my tank is good on plants. As for livestock I think for now I am going to go with a couple of CAE and some shrimp. I really don't know what kind of shrimp I am going to get yet. I know my LFS has 'Crystal Red Shrimp' as well as some 'Red Cherry Shrimp'. They also told me to come back in a week because they might be getting some others. What do yall think I should go with?

Well, thanks everyone for all the advice and maybe I will be getting more with this post :icon_bigg . Let me know what yall think good or bad and also let me know if yall would recommend making changes and what they are.

Thanks.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

The tall plant on the left is probably a bacopa, and the one on the right looks like wisteria. I'm suspicious of the moss you have tied to the driftwood (same moss that was on the coconut, right?). It looks so yellow, it might be not be fully aquatic. Time will tell.

But amazing transformation.  Nice job.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

FrostyNYC said:


> The tall plant on the left is probably a bacopa, and the one on the right looks like wisteria. I'm suspicious of the moss you have tied to the driftwood (same moss that was on the coconut, right?). It looks so yellow, it might be not be fully aquatic. Time will tell.
> 
> But amazing transformation.  Nice job.


Thanks.
And yeah, I think it just might be the lighting of the picture because looking at it right now seems really green, but looking at the picture it really does look a little yellow. 

So today I picked up one of those master testing kits that tests pretty much everything and this is my results:

pH: 7.5
GH: 14 dH
KH: 10 dH
NH3: 0 mg/l
NO2-: <0.3 mg/l

So far with what I have been reading it seems that my tank is in good condition to start adding some livestock. What do yall think? I am thinking about getting some RCS from this person off this forum selling them for about $5 per shrimp (grade A - S mix). I am also looking to maybe getting so other type of shrimp like CRS or something and maybe a couple CAE. How many shrimp would be to many shrimp in a tank my size (10g) and I guess what type of shrimp would yall recommend me getting with these test results?

Thanks.

Oh, also picked up some 'Flourish Excel' to go with what I am already adding the standard flourish product.


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## crimsonbull57 (Jan 7, 2009)

how about amonia?
You should wait longer before adding fish, I know its tempting but 5 days isn't enough to cycle a tank, unless everything is from an established tank. 
It takes a few weeks to get everything balanced before safely adding fish or other inhabitants.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

The NH3 was my ammonia reading. And it's currently at 0 mg/l. So I guess you would say there is no ammonia currently present in my tank. And yeah, most of the water in the tank was from the previous cycled tank but, I did do some water changes.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

There's a limited number of bacteria in tank water. It's the filter media, substrate, etc, that collects denitrifying bacteria, since they need something to grow on and colonize. So old tank water + 5 days probably does not a cycled tank make.

You could add shrimp, but Id skip the CRS for now because they're delicate and even trace amounts of ammonia or nitrite could harm them. RCS, snails, and other inverts would be fine, however. Also, your pH looks a little high for CRS. They usually prefer a pH of 6.0 to 7.0.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

FrostyNYC said:


> There's a limited number of bacteria in tank water. It's the filter media, substrate, etc, that collects denitrifying bacteria, since they need something to grow on and colonize. So old tank water + 5 days probably does not a cycled tank make.
> 
> You could add shrimp, but Id skip the CRS for now because they're delicate and even trace amounts of ammonia or nitrite could harm them. RCS, snails, and other inverts would be fine, however. Also, your pH looks a little high for CRS. They usually prefer a pH of 6.0 to 7.0.


Yeah, I thought about it and your are right. I am going to start small first and then probably work my way up to the CRS. I went to the LFS today and picked up some RCS and they are doing awesome so far. They have been in the tank for about and hour and a half now and there seems to be no problems. I evened up putting on a sponge on my filter intake so that some of the littler RCS would not be in any danger. And if they ever have babies. 

But yeah, I'll keep yall posted tho.


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

Any pictures of the rcs? lol


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

ddtran46 said:


> Any pictures of the rcs? lol


Heres some I just took. Sorry if they are kind of blurry. Those little buggers are moving pretty good. And the last pic, I have like 2 or 3 shrimp that I got that looked like they had like a saddle or something on them, but after researching it turns out that there eggs in the shrimp. How crazy huh. So in the last pic you can kind of see the brownish/yellowish eggs in the shrimp. I thought this was neat.


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

Nice shrimps:thumbsup:


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## ALIFER (Jul 22, 2005)

I shouldn't worry about your PH, it will go up & down during the day & night, & you will stress out everything if you try to control PH too much.

What are you using for a bubble counter. The early pictures looked like you had something setup on a powerhead. I have a link below from the Tom Barr Report for a DIY internal reactor. You can put it on your light timer to reduce the amount of CO2 at night. 
http://www.barrreport.com/articles/41-diy-internal-reactor-great-yeast-co2-users.html

-Rick


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

ALIFER said:


> I shouldn't worry about your PH, it will go up & down during the day & night, & you will stress out everything if you try to control PH too much.
> 
> What are you using for a bubble counter. The early pictures looked like you had something setup on a powerhead. I have a link below from the Tom Barr Report for a DIY internal reactor. You can put it on your light timer to reduce the amount of CO2 at night.
> http://www.barrreport.com/articles/41-diy-internal-reactor-great-yeast-co2-users.html
> ...


Hey,

Thanks for the info. Yeah, my pH has been pretty steady now since that I change some stuff up with the tank (substrate, drift wood, and i guess more plants). As for the power head I had a DIY reactor on it but when I did a water change and there was still some water still in it and the force made the silicon break off. Right now I have the DIY CO2 pumping into the outtake of the mini filter causing them to be pretty broken down when they come out. 

I looked at the DIY reactor that you linked and it really looks like something that I might actually do. I'll keep you posted when I start to actually build it. And thanks:icon_mrgr.

Oh also I don't have a counter currently all I go by is actually sitting there and seeing how many bubbles are coming out of the DIY CO2 into the tank within the minute.

Thanks Again!


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Hey All,

So I just got the RCS yesterday and today they seem to be doing fine still. I just had a quick question: I put them in yesterday around 1pm or so and the rest of the day they were highly active. When it came night time and the lights in the tank were turned off i noticed that almost all of them grabbed a spot in different plants to I guess chill in. (No more activity). Now that the lights in the tank have been on for a couple of hours now all of them are just on the ground sifting at the substrate. None are dead but I was just wondering if this is normal behavior? I was reading some forums about theses guys and it says that there very active and such. Is there anything wrong with mine and/or my tank that I would have to change? 

Thanks.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

So my shrimp absolutely 'LOVE' this stuff I got for them (someone on the forum recommend it) called 'Crab Cuisine' by Hikari Tropical. I put in about 4 of these mini pellets in my tank to test them out and about 10-15min later I had gatherings around them.

Check it out!:biggrin:

Thanks yall for the recommendation. 

Also, I am thinking about just adding these in like once or twice a week. Is that okay? Or should I do less or more? 

Thanks


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## Outlawboss (Dec 30, 2008)

It's pretty normal to find them shuffling through the substrate in the mornings. My shrimp seem to go through periods of high activity where, if you didn't know any better, you'd think they were fish swimming around. Then, the next day, they'll just chill on the plants all day. I think they just like to mess with us.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Outlawboss said:


> It's pretty normal to find them shuffling through the substrate in the mornings. My shrimp seem to go through periods of high activity where, if you didn't know any better, you'd think they were fish swimming around. Then, the next day, they'll just chill on the plants all day. I think they just like to mess with us.


Okay, cool thanks. I just didn't know if this was normal or not. 

Also, I posted this on the shrimp forum on here but, I found a molting on the ground of the tank this morning and was wondering if i should clean it up or leave it in the tank? I have cared for hermit crabs before and know that they like to eat their molting and it is good for them. Is this the same with RCS?

Thanks.


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## Outlawboss (Dec 30, 2008)

Yep, same with RCS. They usually disappear within a day or so. Kinda weird to watch them chewing on them, but hey whatever makes them happy!


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Outlawboss said:


> Yep, same with RCS. They usually disappear within a day or so. Kinda weird to watch them chewing on them, but hey whatever makes them happy!


Alright, cool. Thanks:smile:


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Hey All, 

So I am going to get some xmas moss on Sunday in Austin from a guy that I meet here on the forum. I am thinking about maybe putting it to cover the back of the tank (the back wall). I was wondering what yall think and, if this is a good idea. Other ideas that came to mind was to get some rocks and put the moss onto that. sort of like what I have with the driftwood. Is attaching moss to the wall of your tank hard? I have seen post on how to do this but did not know if it is good. 

Well I can't wait to make my hour and a half journey to get it and I am sure my shrimp will be just as excite as I will be when I put the moss into the tank.

Let me know what yall think.

Thanks.

Oh, before I forget I ordered this drop checker online.
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-drop-checkers/gleaf-drop-checker.html
I guess the only hard part would be finding more 4dKH solution when I am out. I could probably make my own tho.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

So, went to Austin today to pick up some xmas moss from a person that I meet here on the forum and also stopped by there LFS there. All I have to say is that one store is WAY better than all the stores here in San Antonio put together:drool:. I can see myself making a trip there again. 

Anyway, I'll post more pics here soon.


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## wakesk8r (Nov 26, 2007)

ha ha, I told you It was worth the drive!!!

let me know how that moss works out


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

blue-ram said:


> ha ha, I told you It was worth the drive!!!
> 
> let me know how that moss works out



LoL. Yeah, I am probably going to make it like a once a month thing. Or maybe once every two months or so. They even carry that ADA substrate which I thought was cool. 

Finishing up the tanks (water changes and such) but will post pictures here in like 5 min.

:thumbsup: And THANKS for the moss :thumbsup:


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

or or or you should go every week.  That's what I'd do if I... can .......drive.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

So, here is the tank currently.

*New plants:*

Xmas Moss (from blue-ram)
Dwarf Hair Grass (Aquatek)
Dwarf Baby Tears (Aquatek)
Red Tiger Lotus (blue-ram)

Well I think that will pretty much be it for plants. So hopefully they fill in well. Will keep yall posted.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Chrisinator said:


> or or or you should go every week.  That's what I'd do if I... can .......drive.


Hahahah.


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## wakesk8r (Nov 26, 2007)

ha, i was going to ask how much you spent there.
you can get alot of the fish i have in my tank there
glad you liked the moss
before long you too will be selling the trimmings


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Hey All,

Just wanted to post because my new drop checker came in. Just wanted to show yall. Got it from GLA. Thanks everyone for the reference.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

I bet you could break up your hairgrass and HM into smaller pieces and spread around your tank. It would grow faster, since it's not competing with itself, and you'd get things filled in faster. It's win/win.


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

Nice drop checker:thumbsup:

+1 with *Tex Gal*. It will spread alot faster if you break them up into clumps.


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Tex Gal said:


> I bet you could break up your hairgrass and HM into smaller pieces and spread around your tank. It would grow faster, since it's not competing with itself, and you'd get things filled in faster. It's win/win.


Okay, will do. I will break it up when I get time. Probably sometime this weekend or so. I will post new pics once I get it done. Thanks for the advice.
roud:


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Hey All,

So had baby shrimp within the week. Going to try to post some pics here in a couple of days of them. Also, had new growth on pretty much all the plants in the tank. Will post pics when I can. Just wanted to keep everyone updated.

Thanks.


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

Baby shrimps already??! That was fastroud:


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## Granz (Sep 12, 2009)

Hey All,

So it has been a while since I have updated this thread so I thought it was about time to do so. My tank is doing good. (Thanks for all the information that I have received here on planted tank) As you can see there is growth in the tank with ALL of my plants. Some have been doing better than others, but all have seen growth. 

Also, my shrimp are on like a breeding cycle since the last time I have updated. Since the last update I have seen 2 cycles of baby shrimp in my tank. There might have been more times when they have breed but I have only witnessed 2 times. And I also decided to put some nano fish in the tank (Endlers). My girlfriend saw them at the LFS and fell in love with them. Since she was looking to getting 'Phoenix Rasboras' and paying like an arm and a leg for just a couple the Endlers were a good alternative. And they were only 20 cents a fish.  Tonight was also the first night we spotted a baby Endler. Pretty cool.

Well I hope yall enjoy looking at the new pictures. If yall have any questions or comments feel free to ask. Also, I was just wondering how I should start trimming the growth off the plants.

Thanks.

Information:
*Picture 1 and 2:*
Got Xmas moss from 'blue-ram' really good quantity for cheap. (You can see it on log). He also throw in a lotus (posted in the 2nd picture) and is doing really well. Had like 4 leaves when we got it and now you can see the difference.

*Picture 3:*
You can see the a full grown male Endler is about the same size as a full grown cherry shrimp. I have not had any problems with the adult endlers eating baby shrimp since my tank does have plenty of plants for the babies to hide in but, it has been know that adult endlers can eat baby shrimp and also their fry. (Have not witnessed this in my take).

*Picture 4:*
Male endlers on the left (Orange and Black). Female endlers on the right (Eggshell color).


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