# Is the problem my lighting, substrate..both?



## jeremyTR (Mar 21, 2012)

Flourish doesn't cover all your plants nutrition needs

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

You are "BELOW" low light. 1 T8 bulb 16" from the substrate is virtually in the dark.


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## smokaah (Nov 30, 2011)

jennesque said:


> I haven't really had the best of luck with my plants.. just looking for some advice. I have a low tech set up, and I have mostly low light plants. Here is my current set up:
> 
> 1 18" t8 bulb, 6500k
> Pool sand as a substrate
> ...


I have a 28 gallon bow also and I run Aquaticlife 2x24 T5HO with pressurized CO2. I also just ordered the NPK+M bundle from Pfertz. I think you need to dose some ferts and up the lights asap. If co2 is an option, go for it.


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## jeremyTR (Mar 21, 2012)

At least give DIY co2 a try. I just started yesterday I hope to see good results

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

You can go to Ebay or Aqua Traders and get a decent light (for lowtech) for less than $80. Look into Dirting the tank (very easy).

There is a perfect Solarmax HE T5 Double Lamp Light System 48 Inch (High effeciency=Normal Output) for 80$ If you go the NO route 2 bulbs will be required for an even spread. If you want a simple stress free tank, avoid HO and Co2.


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## doinkmobb (May 12, 2010)

Is the tank 24" long? If so, try something like this http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-13097-sun-blaze-t5-ho-strip-light-supremes.aspx

A 24 watt T5 bulb with a good reflector should be a noticeable increase over an 18 watt T8 bulb with an average reflector. 

I've got the 48" version of that lamp over my 55 gallon. That's 54 watts of light approx. 21" above a plain gravel substrate, and I dose dry ferts 2-3x a week, throw in some Flourish Excel when I feel like it and do water changes when I'm not feeling lazy. Root tabs couldn't hurt, I make my own capsules with Osmocote Plus. DIY CO2 has its merits, but it's difficult to maintain a steady supply...and a little annoying. 

I would: keep your substrate, invest in some new lighting (don't go overboard), buy/make root tabs, get some dry ferts, skip the CO2.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Personally, I'd just do new lights and go with the root tabs and ferts of some kind. Adding the CO2 might cause more problems then it would fix as far as I can tell, plus, I've yet to use CO2.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Both substrate and light are part of the problem. 
Sand has no fertilizer, and whatever you are adding via fish food has very little chance to fertilize the plants. The Flourish product line has several fertilizers. The one most commonly called Flourish is a low level amount of trace minerals. The plants need more nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. Each of these are sold in separate bottles so you can customize the dosing for your tank. 

The low pH suggests that the tap water also highly likely has almost no fertilizers or minerals. Can you get a report from the water company about the water? (If it is a public water source you should be able to get such a report) Another way to get this info is to have the water tested at a pet/aquarium store, or get the test kits yourself. Test for GH (General hardness, a test for calcium and magnesium) and KH (Carbonate hardness, a test for carbonates). I'll bet both are very low in your water. 

Valisneria does better in harder water. 
Pennywort, growing so close to the surface is highly likely getting some extra CO2 from the air. 
Anubias is slow growing, but the small holes in the leaves are typical of potassium deficiency. 

I would:
Add tablets under the sand that are complete fertilizers. 
Add fertilizer to the water for the plants that are not rooted in the substrate. 
Check the GH and KH of the water. If it is OK with the fish, I would make sure the GH and KH are at least 3 German degrees of hardness. As high as 5 degrees would be better. 
Start DIY CO2
Improve the lights as suggested above. If nothing else get another fixture like you have and double the lighting. An 18" bulb over a 28 gallon tank is nowhere near enough. 

A low tech tank ought to be able to supply the plants' needs without so much dosing, but a sand substrate just will not do this. If you change it out for a dirt substrate you will be a lot closer to a low tech tank.


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## AaronMB (May 9, 2012)

For what it's worth - 

I'm in a similar situation in that I know my tank (29h = 24" above 2" of PFS) could very much benefit from better lighting: it only has the stock kit hood that uses a single 15W T8.

While I research and budget for better lighting, my 2x2liters of DIY CO2, along with minimal Flourish Comprehensive and root tabs, have done wonders--considering my lack of a basis for comparison--for my plants. In seeing just what I can get away with, I'm having great luck with an amazon sword in the center, as well as a variety of anubias and aponogetons, narrow leaf anacharis, wisteria, java/x-mas moss, and some other narrow, wavy, redish-leafed plant reaching for the top and sending out little flowers to the surface (I'm still trying to figure it out). All show good to great growth (again, considering my basis for comparison).


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Your Plant Question*

Hello jenn...

Let's look at your situation:
*Your lighting is fine for low light plants like varieties of Anubias, Java fern, mosses. Just about anything that can be attached to driftwood or lava rock and will sit on top of the sand.
*Plants need large, frequent water changes to be healthy. Change half the tank water every week or so. Keeps the chemistry stable and maintains high mineral levels in the water.
*Vallisneria isn't a very good low to moderate light plant and doesn't like ferts with "Gluteraldehyde". Doesn't like sand.
*Dose a source of "trace elements" when you do your weekly water changes. There are many kinds in liquid, dry, tablets or granules. Just dose according to instructions.
*Cryptocoryne doesn't really like a sandy substrate. The sand gets compacted to the point no nutrients can get to the roots. 
*If you're on a tight budget, that's fine. Leave the lighting as it is. Just keep to the plants that do best in low light. There are more than enough to fill a 28 G tank.

Just some thoughts that came to me. Hope they help.

B


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This lighting is not enough for even low-light plants at that depth. Definitely take the advice of others like Diana above.

Healthy planted aquariums don't need 50% water changes every week if there's plenty of filtration and flow unless you're dosing EI. Smaller changes are typically more appropriate.

Vals can do fine in sand if they have proper fertilization and have the ability to grow deep enough roots. Crypts can also do fine in sand.


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## jennesque (May 10, 2012)

Holy cow. I'm new here and I am used to being auto subscribed to my posts so I didn't know anyone had replied. There are so many replies! Thank you to everyone for the responses!

Ok.. so.. my substrate is terrible. :/ I wish someone had told me just sand doesn't work well with some plants. I'm not sure what else would have the same look as vals but work in sand. I don't really want to tear the whole tank up when it's going relatively well. I guess I will try for root tabs. Any suggestions?

I have never been able to find my tap water specifics. I called them and got tired of jumping through hoops. Oddly, my tiny town has two water sources and I found info on what I believe to be the other source. I do not remember where I finally found the report but I posted it up in Tropical Fish Keeping's forum and a mod there said I am lucky in that my water is so soft.. I was hoping to be able to stock fish that thrive in soft acidic water and my dream came true lol. It's just a nightware for plants...

I am also gathering that my ferts aren't sufficient. There are no additional holes in my anubias and new growth on all of them. There is also growth on my java moss.. but this ia the first time I've had it so I'm not sure what to compare it to. I plan on going to the lfs tomorrow.. what should I be looking for in ferts? 

I do not want to add CO2 to the tank. I am ok with getting a new light as needed but I still want to keep it at low light levels. The only thing currently having any issues are the new vals. If I need to replace them, that is ok.. I thought they would be fine in a low light tank because they are so tall and easily reach the surface. Anyways, if I were to get a new light is it right that one 24" t5 still keeps me at low light? 

I don't really want to spend $80+ on a light for the tank. I am perfectly willing to spend around $40.. I've intentionally picked low light plants to eliminate the cost of expensive lighting. Doinkmob, the light you suggested is within budget.. can that just be places at the top of my tank? 

It seems like a new fert regimine (including root tabs) and new lights are the priority of the tank. I do not want to increase the hardness.. I have rummys and a gourami. And as some of you advised, I will not add co2. Changing the substrate is something I will try to avoid.


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## jennesque (May 10, 2012)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/77478-lighting-planted-aquarium-cheap.html

Would this be enough to provide enough for a low light tank until I can get something better? At two 26 watt bulbs it's def an improvement. I can go get that tomorrow!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Chicken brooder lights are intended to keep the baby chicks warm. I would place those over the tank, but above it by an inch or more, and make sure you can add a fan to blow away the heat. 

You are wasting electricity by generating heat when you want light. 
You could do as well by going to any hardware store and getting some drop lights, then getting some compact fluorescent bulbs. I have the item I have linked, and although it says it is for incandescent bulbs it also uses the screw-in compact fluorescent bulbs just fine. 

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs..._-SearchPLPHorizontal1-1-_-NA-_-100664506-_-N


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/153195-my-inexpensive-cfl-light-solution.html is a good thread to read for advice on using those dome-like lights.

If the "sand" you are using is "play sand", it probably will compact more than is desirable. But, if it is a coarse sand, like pool filter sand, with particles no smaller than about 1 mm in diameter, it will work fine with all plants, assuming that you fertilize the water and/or the substrate.

Water changes are not harmful to the plants or fish if done using a conditioner like Prime each time. But, weekly 50% water changes aren't needed if you aren't dosing fertilizers using a method like the Estimative Index method, where a bit more fertilizers than are needed are dosed to make sure there will be no deficiencies. I would strongly consider changing a quarter to a third of the water every week, or two.


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## jennesque (May 10, 2012)

Oh no, Diana.. I am sorry I didn't clarify but by no means was I planning on cooking the fish lol. I already planned on replacing the bulbs with 6500k cfls.. 

Thank you Hoppy, I did read through the article and it was helpful. I picked up three small ones that fit across the top... when I told my boyfriend the idea he wasn't happy.. he thinks it will be ugly (tank is in the living room) so that's why I bought the smaller ones.. I am hoping since they're smaller and three is more.. balanced looking? that he'll warm up to the idea. If not, I will return them. also, I do have pool filter sand.. and I change out about 15% but I guess that should be bumped up to 25%? I'm fine with that. I think 50% would just be too much...

I went to my LFS today and asked the owner's opinion on the vals.. he said the water should be ok even though it is on the softer side and that it is probably the substrate that's the root of the problem. (Haha bad pun). His suggestion is to make little "pots" for the vals out of plastic or terra cotta and fill that with either gravel on one of the planting substrates (Flourite?). Does that seem like a better idea? I know it'll probably put them through more shock at first.. but it this a viable option? 

If so, any suggestions on what to use? I already plan on having another nano tank I was going to either get something like Flourite or do dirt capped with a bit of sand.. is there something I can use for both tanks to save on cash?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Pool filter sand works great for vals. In fact vals tend to grow in whatever circumstances they find themselves in, other than with high Excel dosing. I have had them in several different substrates, including pool filter sand. They are one of the true "weeds" that we grow.


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## jennesque (May 10, 2012)

Ok, well that's good to hear.. do you reccommend using root tabs?

Are my vals just adjusting to the new tank & need higher lights? The guy are the lfs said that the vals should still be ok, but that they usually take like 4-6 weeks to settle and with sand it may take longer. Is that accurate? He was saying that putting them in the little pots would just make them flourish even moreso. I am in the process of upgrading the lights ideally this weekend (esp if the clamp lights go over well enough).. I want there to be decent cover for the background of the tank which is why I went with vals.. 

Lastly, the bulbs I found for the clamp lights are Sylvania micro-mini cfls.. says they are 13w but replace a 60w bulb.. 800 lumens.. and they are 6500k. would these be good? Do three provide low-moderate light? I can probably fit four if needed.. I think that'd be too much though at least for what I am looking for, but I am no expert by any means. Obviously..lol


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I have always found that vals take a month or so before they really take off growing. Once they get started sending out runners they quickly get out of control. The 13 watt CFL bulbs should give you around 35-40 micromols of PAR, which is good low to low medium light, and with 3 of them you should have pretty uniform light too.


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## jennesque (May 10, 2012)

Ok.. so the lights were a go. Hooray! The tank looks so much bright now.. so glad I was able to do this. Just thought I'd post a couple compare and contrast pics..









This was how I previously had the tank set up.. I kept the light pushed back as far as I could to get the most light possible for the vals..









Last night, I was messing around in the lights after reading everyone's responses... I pushed the light to the front of the tank for this picture. While I always knew I was on the low side of lighting for my tank, this really made it sink in. Holy cow.. the back is so, so dark...









And now with the new lights.. I still need to trim up my pennywort. Just added some more rummynose tetras.. one of them still hasn't got his red nose so I'm a bit worried about him.. anyways, it still seems to be quite the improvement. Doesn't look bad either. 

Btw.. I have the small sponge filter in there right now to try to jump start cycling in the other tank I'm building.. Ignore it, lol.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

That looks like a great aquascape! Congratulations on that.


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## jennesque (May 10, 2012)

Thank you very much.  the java moss is only like two weeks old so that's why it still looks that way. Hopefully I will see more growth with the added light!


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