# eco-complete very coarse



## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

Smash the bigger particles with a hammer.

Carbisea started adding different colors to their Eco Complete. 
Im thinking they are running out. Why would they add such ugly colors.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

I have the same issue. Ugly red and grey rocks. If you shake the bag a little, you end up with the fine black substrate that you want toward the bottom, with the ugly rocks at the top of the bag. I picked through it and tossed the white rocks in the trash, as well as the reddest rocks... sucks since its so expensive to begin with. 

Plus, the bags are not even consistent. One of my bags had really terrible coarse gravel, while a second bag was acceptable but still definitely not what I expected when reading reviews here and online.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

well i should of checked into this before i bought my two bags.i'll just go through and pick out the large pieces and discard them.

urs r red frost:eek5:.... no red's in mine but as mentioned large white's.im sure its a great product and hopefully my next batch of plants wont die as im sure it's me being a noob to plants r the reason they're dieing...allwet


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## loachlady5 (Dec 9, 2007)

That's why I mixed mine with Estes black reef sand. It holds the plants in better. With just Ecocomplete, my plants tend to be more easily uprooted by my naughty fish. However, the larger pieces do hold lots of beneficial bacteria. The fact that Ecocomplete is porous really helps with the good bacteria.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

no bad fish here LL.just got back a while ago from taking all the large white pieces from my 16g tank.

have over three cupfulls of large ugly rocks.substrate looks little better but might replace the eco all together.

just really dont like large size particles for my substrate.allwet...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Contact this Rep if you decide you want to replace it:

Jud McCracken
877-898-6108
[email protected]


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

tnx 4 the link laura.sent jud a message with my concerns.no big deal.impossible for me to see how this stuff looked before i bought it as i ordered it from fos/sm.no place around here that has this stuff and dont want to go to kc,mo.even then they might not stock it.

many of the pics i have seen the ec looks very nice as the rocks are all black and quite uniform in size.allwet...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yep, I haven't opened my bags yet (I've got 5 ATM) but I can see some shells in there... I might just end up taking mine back to my LFS and trading for Fluorite black...


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## EricSilver (Feb 23, 2004)

FrostyNYC said:


> Ugly red and grey rocks. If you shake the bag a little, you end up with the fine black substrate that you want toward the bottom, with the ugly rocks at the top of the bag.


That's exactly why I eventually sieved out all of my Ecocomplete. It drifted to the top and obscured the much better looking Tahitian Moon sand.


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## icom (Mar 14, 2008)

my 2 bags were the same way.. I don't think I'll be getting any more eco;I'm either gonna go Flourite Black Sand or more Tahitian sand moon sand.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

others are having issues also so im not alone.went into the tank a second time and got a little over one half cup more of the oversized rocks.their is probably more under the inital layer of substrate but at least i cant see it.

might have to look into 3m color quartz and or tahitian moon sand.tnx for the replies....allwet....


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Only thing with Colorquartz or TMS is that they are inert... have you considered Fluorite black instead? Seachem always makes top-of-the line products, and at least in my neck of the sticks it's priced the same as Eco.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

was going initally with black fluorite but changed my mind.will do more homework on the subject before i decide to change out the ec,if in fact i do change it out.lot of people as u know use kitty litter but not 2 sure about it.might try a 10g setup with k/L and see what happens.sure is fun to experiment isnt it? allwet....


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yup! :biggrin: 

You should check out alot of Homer_Simpson's threads- they're probably right up your alley- Homer loves setting up home experiments to test out all kinds of plant controversies...

PS did you see that TropicalResources.net is going to be moved over to the main Tropical Fish Hobbyist webpage? That's probably going to really have a huge impact on the amount of traffic the forum gets... it should be really cool!


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## blazeyreef (Mar 17, 2008)

oh good, I thought I was the only one with big ugly chunks of rock. I know I had seen pics of eco in some tanks were it was very fine, and that was NOT what I got...


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

will check out hs posts and etc.didnt know that about the move you mentioned.i like most of the forums but some of them dont have a lot of activity.

nothing wrong with posting on several forums but i tend to just stay on one, possibly two.allwet...


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## EricSilver (Feb 23, 2004)

allwet said:


> their is probably more under the inital layer of substrate but at least i cant see it.


Not yet. The larger grains will continue to migrate to the top. :frown: 

FYI: My fiirst bags of Tahitian Moon (purchased in 2004) were pure black, with practically no lighter colored grains, giving teh substrate a velvety-smooth appearance. A few months ago I bought a replenishment bag, and there there were quite a few lighter colored grains in it. It was likely just my batch, but examine the contents carefully before buying. 

Also, root tabs, plant spikes, or injectcions of liquid or pelletized supplements into the substrate will compensate for any mineral deficiency.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

ok eric.unfortunately im not around well stocked Lfs in this area.have to rely on pics from the internet and catalogs i get.back in the 60's and 70's i never knew they mailordered stuff....as i had plenty of good Lfs in the kc,mo area.

being disabled its hard 4 me to drive to kc anymore.thats a roundtrip of about 150 miles depending on where i go.you hobbyist's who have good shops to go to are so lucky its hard for me to find premium fish food like osi,hikari,omegaone,aquarium,spectrum and etc.the shops just dont stock it.sorry to get so off topic.allwet......


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## EricSilver (Feb 23, 2004)

allwet said:


> you hobbyist's who have good shops to go to are so lucky its hard for me to find premium fish food like osi,hikari,omegaone,aquarium,spectrum and etc.


How ironic; The 'good shops' around me are Petsmart and Petco. They have really begun to get their act together in regard to plants and fish selection, and underprice all but one LFS I know of. 

Also, thanks for revealing that OmegaOne is a prfemium brand. I have a small container of it, and my fish seem to like it more than frozen food. Now I know why. :thumbsup:


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

EricSilver said:


> How ironic; The 'good shops' around me are Petsmart and Petco. They have really begun to get their act together in regard to plants and fish selection, and underprice all but one LFS I know of.
> 
> Also, thanks for revealing that OmegaOne is a prfemium brand. I have a small container of it, and my fish seem to like it more than frozen food. Now I know why. :thumbsup:



i go to a petco in st joe,mo and its a pretty nice shop.of course they dont carry the premium foods i want except for some hikari.the rest of the premium food i have to mailorder.

the 4 Lfs dont carry rocks,slate,wood etc but petco does.their tanks are in pretty good shape.sometimes many fish will be dead and or diseased,but the following day the undesirable ones have been removed.:thumbsup: and the tanks look ok.omegaone is awesome..allwet.......


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## NeverEndingNinja (Jan 4, 2008)

I covered my EC with plants, and now it looks great!



:icon_roll


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

thats what i want to do nen.....i have to mailorder all my plants.bought some nice looking plants off of ebay but a few didnt make it as its just 2 cold here and probably inbetween from where they were sent.

put the few that did make it in the tank but they r in bad shape.not going to give up yet though as i'll place another order in a few days.allwet....


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You should also take a look at the Swap N Shop forum for plants- you can get some great deals there...


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> You should also take a look at the Swap N Sh:redfacep forum for plants- you can get some great deals there...



u referring to another site or is the swap n shop on this board? i sure cant find it if its on this board.

i did see one person(lowcoaster) offering plants 4 sale...allwet:redface:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No, it's here on this forum, under the "members" section:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

tnx LL 4 the link.good thing u gave it to me because i still cant find it on the forum.i click pt forum buts its not their???...at least i dont see it.got it bookmarked and memorized however.allwet.......


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

That's really weird- can you see the Lounge forum?


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

I think you need a certain amount of post to view the SNS and to be logged in.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

yeah i can see the lounge forum ok.no big deal.tnx...allwet...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

frozenbarb said:


> I think you need a certain amount of post to view the SNS and to be logged in.


Really? I never knew that..

OK Allwet- keep talking (or typing- whatever)!!! LOL :hihi:


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

im ah typing and im ah grinning:hihi: allwet......


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm hoping you only need to get to 50 posts... if you can find the Lounge go play SeaSerpent's game in there or something till you get to 50?? ROFL


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

finished typing and buying...bought 8 moss balls.going to play with my trains now...cuL:thumbsup: allwet.........


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## bluelobster (Mar 8, 2008)

if anyone wants any, someone on craigslist is giving away 50 bags of Silicon Sand in New York.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

thanks to lauralee here on this forum for giving me the name of the tech at caribsea re my eco-complete and large rocks and off colored rocks.

i was able to talk to the tech in person and he explained quality control was a little lax.

he has offered to make good on the 2 bags i purchased as long as i send him the sales receipt which i did.:thumbsup:

im looking forward to getting the 2 bags which hopefully wont suffer from q/c issues.allwet...


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

i just received 2 bags of the Eco-Complete and added both to my new tank. One was completely black with fine granules and the other had some lighter granules. There is one slightly larger piece slightly smaller than a dime, but it looks more like a pebble so it doesn't bother me. 

I simply mixed the two together though I was hoping for a black substrate as advertised. I haven't opened the other bag.

I doubt they would pay return shipping for these so I'm just leaving it as is. I doubt I'll purchase this brand in the future though due to the incosistancy.

I sent an email to [email protected] I suggest you do the same as strength is in numbers.


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

Gad said:


> I sent an email to [email protected] I suggest you do the same as strength is in numbers.



THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!

I also bought three bags that were of bad quality. I sent an e-mail to the e-mail address you provided. They responded in less than five minutes, asked for a copy of my receipt which I forwarded to them and they are sending me three more bags of superior quality.

That is customer support. I am definitely buying from them again.

I added a square to your reputation.

Luis


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Awesome. They are replacing mine as well. A great company.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

well i talked to them on the telephone and i sent them my sales receipt for two bags and im still waiting on my replacements.i've taken over 13 cups of white oblong rock from the substrate so far...pretty ugly.

if in fact they do send me two more, if its like what i have it will go in the trash.allwet.........


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

allwet said:


> well i talked to them on the telephone and i sent them my sales receipt for two bags and im still waiting on my replacements.i've taken over 13 cups of white oblong rock from the substrate so far...pretty ugly.
> 
> if in fact they do send me two more, if its like what i have it will go in the trash.allwet.........


When did you talk to them? I talked to them today and they said my bags will go out this week.

Luis


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

talked to them at the end of march.hasnt been two weeks yet...not in a hurry.allwet......


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

Luis138 said:


> THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
> 
> I also bought three bags that were of bad quality. I sent an e-mail to the e-mail address you provided. They responded in less than five minutes, asked for a copy of my receipt which I forwarded to them and they are sending me three more bags of superior quality.
> 
> ...


can i have a copy of your receipt:hihi:?


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Mine have some white too. Kind of a pain in the butt that I have to remove 60 pounds of this to start over. Just doesn't look very good.

I sure hope the replacement bags are pure black like they advertise.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

well maybe my 2 bags will come this coming week.got 100Lbs of 3mcq so i am happy and the 3m product looks very good in my tanks.its just the right size imo.

if the eco does come i'll remove a couple of inches more of the old eco and top it off with the new eco.

just a shame that the company who made this went ahead and packaged this stuff when they probably knew it was subpar to begin with.allwet.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

allwet said:


> just a shame that the company who made this went ahead and packaged this stuff when they probably knew it was subpar to begin with.allwet.


I agree.


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

jelisoner said:


> can i have a copy of your receipt:hihi:?


Sure, if you could change my information to reflect yours.  

Luis


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

was just wondering if those of you who have indeed sent in your receipt,have any of you been sent a replacement yet? allwet.......


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Nope. I checked with Jud the other day and he said the order was submitted, whatever that means.


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

No, I was told your order will ship this week. That was last Friday so I assume they meant this week.

I'll give it two weeks before I contact them again.

Luis


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Luis138 said:


> No, I was told your order will ship this week. That was last Friday so I assume they meant this week.
> 
> I'll give it two weeks before I contact them again.
> 
> Luis


 
How do you know when my order was shipped?


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

Gad said:


> How do you know when my order was shipped?


Sorry, it should had read: I was told: "your order will ship next week."

Meaning MY order, not yours.  

Sorry about the confusion.

Luis


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Luis138 said:


> Sorry, it should had read: I was told: "your order will ship next week."
> 
> Meaning MY order, not yours.
> 
> ...


 
LMAO What confusion? :icon_eek:


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

Gad said:


> LMAO What confusion? :icon_eek:


Who? What? Where? When?

Now I am confused, lol.

Luis


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

hopefully i'll get mine then in a couple of weeks also.took the plants out today and removed 5 more cupfulls of the large rocks again. looks a little better now,tnx 4 the replies.allwet.......


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

I need to setup a 20 gallon tomorrow to put my extra plants in. Until this comes in I'll have a bare tank.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

well gad i went and got the 3mcq. not going to wait on the eco.i like the 3m product real well and it looks real good imo.

if the eco does come and i like what i see i might change out the river rock to eco later this spring on my 29g.
just got a bunch of new plants planted in the 29g and want to see what happens.being so new to plants i still dont know if i'll be able to grow anything yet.time will tell.allwet......


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

just got 4 bags in today all with white stone and big pieces ..you guys get your new bags yet? i emailed them


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Nothing here. Sounds like they didn't fix the problem.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

jeli ur probably getting the old product just like myself and others have got.lets all keep our fingers crossed that the company makes good on this mess.allwet........


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

i think they are going to give me the run around 
i emailed 2 days ago no reply i called today and the lady i talked to directed my call to an answering machine i left a message and never got a reply back 

/sigh


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Keep is posted. I'm hoping my 3 bags show up soon.


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

got an email today they want me to send a pill bottle full as a sample and pics with my receipts:icon_roll


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

well i can certainly send them a very large sample of the crap they call substrate.already sent in the receipts long ago but still havent heard nothing.

it would be to their advantage to replace an inferior looking product as im sure the substrate does what its suppose to do.its just an ugly substrate as many of us now know.allwet...


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

jelisoner said:


> got an email today they want me to send a pill bottle full as a sample and pics with my receipts:icon_roll


Who did you talk to? All they wanted was receipts from me. But I still haven't received anything. I'm now told there may have been a mixup.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Anybody else get theirs? I haven't heard back and nothing has arrived. Coming up on two weeks.

They started to gain my trust back as a customer but now I'm starting to have second thoughts. Remember the days when you could get what you actually paid for?


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

Received my replacement bags today. However I sent a receipt for three bags and I only received two. Will see if I get a third one.

I haven't opened it yet but it does look darker that the one I had originally purchased.

Luis


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

I received an e-mail apologizing for the error and to notify me that a third bag is on the way. That is first class customer service.

Luis


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

LOL well what started off for me as a great experience with customer service is quickly souring.

I was the one that contacted them to get replacements, everyone else is getting taken care of but me.

Now my emails and phone calls seem to be ignored. Two weeks and no product.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Luis138 said:


> I received an e-mail apologizing for the error and to notify me that a third bag is on the way. That is first class customer service.
> 
> Luis


Luis, 

Who did you talk to? I've been dealing with Jud. I just got off the phone with him and he had an atitude. I've been waiting over two weeks and nobody there is giving me answers.


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

I have been e-mailing Jud. I don't have a phone number for him. He always seems nice and has been very helpful so far.

Luis


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Contact this Rep if you decide you want to replace it:
> 
> Jud McCracken
> 877-898-6108
> [EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected][/EMAIL]


:fish:


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Jud is who I've been talking to, and at first he was real nice and seemed to be taking care of it. Now 2 weeks later he acts like he's fed up with all the orders for replacements. :icon_cry:

All I want is the BLACK subtrate that I paid for. :icon_cry:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

My guess is that since this info is on at least the 3 forums I'm active on he may be getting swamped...

CaribSea's own fault, though. The bags I took back to my LFS looked pretty bad...


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

Since they seem to have solved the problem, can we order directly from them or do we have to go through a retail store?

Luis


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm pretty sure you have to go through retailers?


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

OK, they said shipping tomorrow and appologized for the problem. We'll see. I sure this time it's black like advertised.


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## blazeyreef (Mar 17, 2008)

I was wondering if it is to late to send them an email. I think I "may" still have the reciept. I have used it for about, oh, 4 months maybe but it has very large (a few the size of my fingernails) ones and a lot of diff. color


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

blazeyreef said:


> I was wondering if it is to late to send them an email. I think I "may" still have the reciept. I have used it for about, oh, 4 months maybe but it has very large (a few the size of my fingernails) ones and a lot of diff. color


Try it. Let's see what they say.

Luis


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## blazeyreef (Mar 17, 2008)

I just sent them an email... will see what they say.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

They might, but I would think 4 months to determine it to be a problem is stretching it a bit. 

Your email might be the straw to break the Camels back. They're already getting hit from all sides about this. I guess its worth a try.


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## blazeyreef (Mar 17, 2008)

Gad said:


> They might, but I would think 4 months to determine it to be a problem is stretching it a bit.
> 
> Your email might be the straw to break the Camels back. They're already getting hit from all sides about this. I guess its worth a try.


well I just diddnt think about it when I recieved it. It wasnt until I read this thread that the thought struck me :icon_cry:


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

blazeyreef said:


> well I just diddnt think about it when I recieved it. It wasnt until I read this thread that the thought struck me :icon_cry:


Same here. I was just lucky enough to find this forum a few days after receiving mine. At first I was thinking the substrate sucked because it wasn't black like it was advertised to be. Then I figured they would never replace it due to the weight or want me to pay return shipping. So when I saw the thread I contacted them and Jud said send in the receipts and here I sit 2 weeks later. :icon_roll


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## Lnb (Apr 15, 2008)

Drs F&S site have now posted "pictures" for each of the eco substrate. If you notice the eco-complete one shows a mix of colors as opposed to the old "all black". I think they're trying to get rid of the mix color stuff and use this as a WYSIWYG. 

I ordered it anyway and haven't opened all the boxes yet but the 2 bags I did check look pretty good. A smattering of off color rocks but not very much. Seeing that I'll save $40 in shipping purchasing it from them instead of Big Als. I can live with it.

If they really want to do right they should offer the mix color/size bags at a discount since it was their QC problem. But then I don't want to crucify a company for one error. There are business out there that are a lot worse and truly deserve our distain.

LB


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

I found blue rocks in mine today. The pictures were pure black where I bought mine.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

WYSIWYG.


What?


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

i will give them one more week and will contact jud again and ask where my two bags are.would love to know how many bags of this stuff is really inferior but guess we'll never know.allwet....btw wysiwyg=what you see is what you get....allwet


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

Gad said:


> I found blue rocks in mine today. The pictures were pure black where I bought mine.


Blue rocks? what kind of blue; dark blue, light blue - turquoise?


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Just your average blue. Nothing special. Maybe a medium to light blue. Think I should go buy some multi colored substrate to go with it?


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## Lnb (Apr 15, 2008)

*W*hat *Y*ou *S*ee *I*s *W*hat *Y*ou *G*et


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Well nothing showed up..........AGAIN. Jud told me last week it was shipping 2nd day and would be here Monday. I kind of figured it probably wouldn't show when no tracking number was given.
:thumbsdow


Anybody else think a month is too long to wait?

Search: Caribsea, Eco-complete


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

I think they deserve a phone call, at the very least inquiring about a tracking number.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Has anyone straight out asked for a refund yet?


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> I think they deserve a phone call, at the very least inquiring about a tracking number.


How many more times do you think I should call?


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

I'd call him until i got a straight answer, over and over again! 

"Jud, I've been patient, I've done everything you guys asked as far as getting the product back, etc., and you keep telling me it's going to ship out and I don't even have a tracking number. If it's too much trouble, fine, just refund my money and we'll be good to go....If you're actually going to send it back then do it and give me a tracking number!" 

I worked for a newspaper for a long time and still have a press pass; Ever since this thread got started I've wanted to call CaribSea and really drill them on what the problem is, how it got past quality control, how many customers were affected, etc. I've seen so many hobbyists burned by CaribSea now it's just not right; granted they're trying to make good, though so far it seems as thought they're not doing too good of a job. It's frustrating for me, and I don't even have any damn ecocomplete!


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> I'd call him until i got a straight answer, over and over again!
> 
> "Jud, I've been patient, I've done everything you guys asked as far as getting the product back, etc., and you keep telling me it's going to ship out and I don't even have a tracking number. If it's too much trouble, fine, just refund my money and we'll be good to go....If you're actually going to send it back then do it and give me a tracking number!"
> 
> I worked for a newspaper for a long time and still have a press pass; Ever since this thread got started I've wanted to call CaribSea and really drill them on what the problem is, how it got past quality control, how many customers were affected, etc. I've seen so many hobbyists burned by CaribSea now it's just not right; granted they're trying to make good, though so far it seems as thought they're not doing too good of a job. It's frustrating for me, and I don't even have any damn ecocomplete!


Been there, done that. Jud got pretty defensive just for emailing him every day. "But you've been eailing me every day". I told him yes, becuase I'm getting no answers. I also left messages with other extensions at Caribsea and not so much as a reply. I'm going to request a refund, they have my receipts. I'm just getting tired of having to hunt them down. Its rediculous. 

As an owner of two businesses I can tell you from experience the absolute worst thing you can do to a customer is ignore them.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Who sells a good black substrate?

Caribsea Eco-Complete. Not recommended.


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## Luis138 (Mar 15, 2008)

Not to offend you, just wondering. Have you been polite and nice when you e-mail them or call them? The reason I ask is because it just took an e-mail from me and in less than 5 minutes he replied asking for my receipt. I sent it and in about one week I received two bags. Now my receipt was for three, I contacted him, he apologized and is sending a third bag.

You attract more bees with honey. If you have been polite and courteous then please ignore my post, I am just wondering.

Luis


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Luis138 said:


> Not to offend you, just wondering. Have you been polite and nice when you e-mail them or call them? The reason I ask is because it just took an e-mail from me and in less than 5 minutes he replied asking for my receipt. I sent it and in about one week I received two bags. Now my receipt was for three, I contacted him, he apologized and is sending a third bag.
> 
> You attract more bees with honey. If you have been polite and courteous then please ignore my post, I am just wondering.
> 
> Luis


Not so much as a sarcastic comment, threat, or raised voice. In fact when I called Jud he was the one with the attitude. He's upset about the whole deal. But that's not my problem. I'm not to blame for their quality control problem. All I want is the product I paid for or my money back.

At this point I should be calling and letting them no my feeling about this whole deal, but I'm going to give them another chance. This is B.S.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

Nice work holding your tongue, gad...I'd be furious. Besides it being a really poor way to conduct business, that dirt isn't cheap!! 

responding to a crisis (or in this case a simple quality control issue) says a lot about a company and their motives...


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> Nice work holding your tongue, gad...I'd be furious. Besides it being a really poor way to conduct business, that dirt isn't cheap!!
> 
> responding to a crisis (or in this case a simple quality control issue) says a lot about a company and their motives...


I agree. When I first contacted Jud he was very professional and replied right away. Then after a couple of weeks the excuses and finger pointing started. Then he stopped replying and didn't return my phone messages. When I called again and got him he really acted like he was very uncomfortable by me contacting him. Said I was contacting him every day. 

What am I supposed to do when I'm being ignored? Don't answer that Coleman. I'm saving you for when I start the www.caribseasucks.com website and forum. :biggrin:

They don't have anybody anwering the phone. I think the company is like 5 people.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Just spoke with Betsy at Caribsea. She replied within minutes of my emailing everyone on their website with an email address and insured me that she was personally packing 3 bags for me today. That they have been having phone and email issues as well as their crew being spread out. Three weeks.

She stated they hit a vain of bad substrate in the mine they were getting this from. They caught the problem before it got too wide spread.

Is anybody using this and having PH issues? Might want to check due to calcium carbonate possibly being in your substrate.

The nighmare continues.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

So i did some investigative work...I called CaribSea. I talked to Jud. I told him that I was considering purchasing some EcoComplete for a tank but was concerned about the consistency in regards to color. He told me that the only way he could ensure I got black product was to inquire with the vendor selling the product. He continued to explain that "nothing was wrong" with the product, only the coloration is off. This, he said, was due to the fact that they began using a different source which initially looked fine but upon closer inspection revealed (what I will call) the defect. He noted that since most customers did not take the extra step to inquire as to the exact color of the substrate like myself (i don't know why anyone would do this, considering every source agrees that it should be black, including the picture on the CaribSea website), they're pissed because it's taking over a month to get a proper product shipped back to them. 

I'm sure you knew most of this. But I had to hear it firsthand. He seems pretty adamant about replacing dissatisfied customer's product, but fell short of telling me that if I did end up getting a bad batch he would fix the problem; like I said, he laid most of the blame on the vendors for selling it. 

He also mentioned that Aqua-medic just released a substrate that looked "identical" to the bad--i mean, mixed-color, yeah--substrate they are selling. I assume he's talking about vulcanit? In my opinion, he tried to minimize the problem, at least from the standpoint that CaribSea was not at fault. 

I'm sure you know all this...but I just couldn't resist. I haven't written for the newspaper for a while, so this was a fun chance to do a bit of off-the-cuff investigative reporting!! 

Good luck...I suspect you may need it!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It was a pH/TDS issues on a few other forums that originally caught my attention; the color is only an aesthetic thing but I was planning a discus tank so didn't need that. Eco commonly raises and buffers pH and hardness a bit, but I was hearing reports of pH going up to 8.0! (which is what made me think they got the planted tank stuff mixed with their cichlid substrate... who knows...)

Don't want to rub it in anyone's face, but I really like my black Fluorite...


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

LIke I said, Jud was pretty adamant that the "bad" eco is just the same as the black, "good" eco, and that the only difference was the color...


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Im glad I get to inspect my pallet before I buy. I talked to Judd months ago and was aware of this matter. Most dealers dont get to inspect orders before they buy and just sell it anyway.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

This is crazy. Now I get home and one box package 1 of 1 is here with two bags. No third bag. The first thing I notice other than the obvious missing nag is white mixed in it again.

I give up!


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

You've got to be kidding me! 

I'd call Jud right up and let him know you're dissatisfied. Just tell him to give you your money back...ridiculous...


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

He said his looking into it. If the other three are shipped I hope they are black. 

It looks to me like they have someone digging this up and bagging it, then it gets shipped to Caribsea, then they just pack and ship it without checking it out. How can someone send bags with white in them when this was my complaint? :angryfire 

Ever watch the Keystone cops?


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

for sure...my dad actually "introduced" them to me one time while i was visiting. CaribSea looks about as competent! 

Something similar happened to me at a restaurant one time. I had to send back a plate of chicken because it was RAW - the second time it was more RAT than the first. Needless to say I left. I didn't go back.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Update: Three bags of Eco-Complete on the way.


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

OK, I'm good. Looks very dark and small. Though there is slight bit of white in it still. Got all three bags. Thank God.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

So it finally came, with only a slight bit of white...congratulations on finally receiving the product you originally intended to purchase (almost)!!


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> So it finally came, with only a slight bit of white...congratulations on finally receiving the product you originally intended to purchase (almost)!!


LOL I hear ya. Now I have 100 lbs of substrate in my carport. 20 of the good is going into my 20g setup I'm planning. I don't think I want to fish 60 pounds out of my acrylic aquarium. It scratches too easy.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

i just got a bag, it is ok, although i did get one rock 1 inch long and .5 inch wide, oh well, i will tie some anubias to it lol


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

just got 4 more bags and it was great quality small grain and very very few whites/reds got 4 more bags coming in monday hopefully its as nice


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

Bah!! to late for me on having the junk replaced cause I lost the reciept when I first got the bag of eco-complete and its. Mine is so bad that it has tiny bright white clam shells in the mix. I only noticed after 2 weeks of the darn thing being in my 10g. Also several large grayish and white stones. Only took half a bag to fill my 10g. I placed the other half in my 125g on just one side of the tank. Not so bad looking in my 125g since I intened to mix it with the substrate that is already in there.

I'm going to upgrade my 10g to a 15g maybe 20g. I'm not sure if I want to buy another bag of this stuff. Would it be ok to mix what is in my 10g with some other black substrate like florite black or black sand florite? 

Any recommendations? Oh by the way, both are shrimp only planted tanks.


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## allwet (Feb 18, 2008)

got my two bags wed aftn and they look very good.very happy now.allwet........


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yayyy for those whose Eco problems are finally getting resolved... your persistence paid off! roud:


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## Gad (Apr 6, 2008)

Yeah, and even though it didn't go too smooth at times a roud: to Caribsea for making it right.


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