# Prime's rimless 25g dirt-planted setup and journal



## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Here is the stand I purchased - inexpensive and sturdy!









One problem though, is this stand is clearly meant to hold a 36 inch 40 gallon tank, and mine is only 24 inches. To solve this, I picked up a stain-grade piece of 3/4" spruce pine board measuring 20 inches by 4 feet. I will cut this to length, apply a coat of wipe-on poly, and set it on top of the metal stand to evenly distribute the weight and to turn it into more of a table. I might even do shelves underneath it later.

Fun times last night when I assembled the whole thing before finding the bag of washers in the box.... had to take it apart and start over. Nothing more precarious than an insecure aquarium stand.

Some floating plants arrived last night. I think I will through them into my goldfish pond out back while I wait to get the tank together.


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## alewife (Mar 4, 2018)

jprime84 said:


> Fun times last night when I assembled the whole thing before finding the bag of washers in the box.... had to take it apart and start over. Nothing more precarious than an insecure aquarium stand.


Sounds like my experiences with IKEA furniture lol. At least you will be a pro if you need to dismantle it again.

I am also experimenting with Walstad in my 30 gal. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of your full setup!

From what I understand, that photoperiod should be more than enough to start off.


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

walstad style tanks are rare here

please do sure your project

looking forward to it!


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I have a similar tank (60P), similar stand (for 29g), and I also used plywood for the top.
2 x t5 is a lot of light for that tank, especially so for Walstad.


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## [email protected] (Jan 8, 2010)

I have the same stand got it at petco . my tank is a mr aqua17.1 gal rimless 23 1/2 x 12 x14 1/2 tall .I used 3/4 birch cabinet grade ply wood . I cut the top 1 1/2 inches larger on all four sides , To give me some working room water testing etc . The only thing I don't like about the stand is its too short for my my taste . only 30' tall . I put mine on half sizes cinder blocks which are 8x8x8 and skinned the sides with 1/2 birch and used Neodymium Magnets to hold the panels in place. The thing looks awesome .


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Still waiting on the poly to dry. Here’s where the tank will sit and how things look now.

Hoping to unbox the tank tonight!



OVT said:


> I have a similar tank (60P), similar stand (for 29g), and I also used plywood for the top.
> 2 x t5 is a lot of light for that tank, especially so for Walstad.


I considered trying to run with only 1 bulb in it but thought that might not be enough. Thoughts?


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I have the same stand got it at petco . my tank is a mr aqua17.1 gal rimless 23 1/2 x 12 x14 1/2 tall .I used 3/4 birch cabinet grade ply wood . I cut the top 1 1/2 inches larger on all four sides , To give me some working room water testing etc . The only thing I don't like about the stand is its too short for my my taste . only 30' tall . I put mine on half sizes cinder blocks which are 8x8x8 and skinned the sides with 1/2 birch and used Neodymium Magnets to hold the panels in place. The thing looks awesome .


It is a tad short especially for a smaller tank, but ours is going in a corner between our computer desks, so I anticipate it being an ideal height for viewing while we sit at our desks. Also, we have a 4 year old whom I hope to get interested in the hobby and its a great viewing height for him.


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## Pluto77189 (Mar 20, 2018)

I'm also getting back into fish. Been keeping chameleons for decades, ignoring everything else. I'm setting up a 60 gallon (48"*13"*25") soon. Currently building the stand. 

I just read waldstadt's book, and I'm going that route. Fish tanks for me should be as self sustaining as possible!

I'm in Western NC, but I go to Raleigh often. You guys have better freshwater selection than I do in the Asheville area. I'll be following to see your progress. Should be interesting


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Progress!

The tank arrived in a steel-lined wood crate. The wood was actually very thin though. In one image you can see where something broke through the bottom of the crate but luckily didn’t damage the glass.

At 8mm thick, the glass is nice and thick! (Or thicc? 😂). The silicone work is super clean too. It’s honestly the nicest tank I’ve had.

Applying the foam pad to the bottom was easy. Stick it on, cut off excess.

The rest of my night was spent sifting Miracle Grow raised bed soil. I chose it because it had all organic fertilizer sources, and it contains compost which will have the CO2 producing bacteria inside. The compost also has bone and kelp meal which should help provide trace nutrients. I bothered with sifting it to try and remove the chunks of wood that might add a lot of tannins to the water.

I was going for about an inch of soil for the bed. I added too much water and it got a bit soupy. This caused it to be a bit uneven as I added the gravel cap since some of the gravel sank into the mud rather than sitting on top.

I partially filled it with water and added the hydor pico to circulate it. The plan is to let it sit like this for the day, then tap the substrate to release any trapped air bubbles before draining and filling it to clear the cloudy water. I also test fit my lights. I think it’s going to be a great looking tank!


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Filled and planted. Let’s see how this goes! The little hanging filter was temporary to help polish debris from the water.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Quick update! I replaced one of my older 10,000k AquaticLife bulbs with a new Giesemann 24W Super Flora bulb.

Also, the wood has turned my water into tea with the tannins. Planning to do a big water change later tonight to dilute.


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## caffeinetherapy (Sep 20, 2014)

Looks great so far! I’m about a month in to my first dirted tank as well.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

So I decided to add an Aquaclear30 HOB filter.

Two reasons:
1. Surface film - It had become GROSS. No surface agitation was causing an issue and I began to worry about oxygenation (plants arent established enough yet to bolster that).
2. Water polishing - As is typical with plants through the mail, theres a fair amount of dead material in the water column. I will be removing what I can with periodic spot-siphoning, but otherwise all it does is dirty up the look of the tank.

I did not add the ceramic rings or (obviously) the charcoal. I just run it at low speed with the coarse sponge in it, and it has helped circulate the tank and get rid of the floating debris in the water column. I removed the Hydo Pico because it was redundant. 

Thinking about getting some feeder shrimp (ghost shrimp) and seeing how they do in here. 

I do see new growth on basically all the stem plants, but not too much yet. Little tips with new green leaves.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

A few pics after the first few weeks. I have snail hitchhikers galore apparently. The roots of the floating plants are really reaching down and they seem happy. The valisneria that I got seemed near death when it came in, and I’m not sure how it’s going to do.

Any ID on the fine-leaf stem plant pictured? It’s been doing the best.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Wow! I had been browsing this forum and uploading on my phone, and I did not realize how bad the forum butchers the photo quality on uploads. Let's try flickr links instead!

I tested my water with a new test kit that came in after my post yesterday, and it looks like things have begun to settle. Ammonia was 0ppm and Nitrites were trace to 0ppm which I would imagine makes sense given the compost-based soil. The plant growth is picking up though, so I think they are consuming what they can. I have not seen any significant oxygen pearling yet though.

After another small water change today, I decided to add fish! I am trying to slowly cycle out the "dyed" water from the driftwood more than anything.

Went with a flame dwarf gourami as it seemed like an ideal habitat for him, and honestly I have never kept a gourami so it was new for me. The rest of the tank mates are red minor tetras since I have always liked schooling fish. I drip acclimated them, and the gourami almost immediately began hunting for food among the plants.

Less crappy pics (except for the gourami who was camera shy, did the best I could with him running from the camera as it got close to the glass):

Untitled by Jeff Bailey, on Flickr

Untitled by Jeff Bailey, on Flickr

Untitled by Jeff Bailey, on Flickr

Untitled by Jeff Bailey, on Flickr

Untitled by Jeff Bailey, on Flickr


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## The Bungulo (Aug 28, 2017)

The stem is Cabomba Caroliniana


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Well, serpae tetras were a mistake. They are big bullies, and are nipping at each other and at my gourami. Time to catch them and return them to the store.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Some new photos this morning


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## CharleeFoxtrot (Jan 29, 2004)

Love the root system development on those floaters!


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## jiorgiana (Apr 26, 2018)

What about NO2 ? I started a little bubble tank(10liters) almost two months ago and I still have nitrites. 

Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A5000 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

I havent tested for those but I am certain they are there. They do not leave the water except by removal through water changes or plant pruning. Not to mention that the compost in the soil almost certainly has nitrogen in it. I am no chemist, but it seems like this would mix with the oxygen in the water. The plants should be consuming this as they grow though.


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## jiorgiana (Apr 26, 2018)

jprime84 said:


> I havent tested for those but I am certain they are there. They do not leave the water except by removal through water changes or plant pruning. Not to mention that the compost in the soil almost certainly has nitrogen in it. I am no chemist, but it seems like this would mix with the oxygen in the water. The plants should be consuming this as they grow though.


Yeah I knew that, my plants are growing so well I was certain it was no nitrogen in that water. Two days ago I made a water change but I didn't test it after that. 
Now I wonder if this is going to stop the beautiful plants' growth. Thank for your answer btw. 

Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A5000 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Pic update! I removed a lot of the DHG. It was beginning to send runners out, but honestly I was not liking the duality of the dangly "hairs" of the floating plants mixed with the hair grass coming up (some pieces at least 5 inches long). I know I could cut it, but I didnt want to deal with cleaning out the clippings. I replaced the foreground with Staurogyne Repens to hopefully form a low mat. I moved a few other plants around too going for an eventual curtain of vallisneria in the back, mixed stem plants just behind the wood, and then the anubias and staurogyne repens in the front with a few accent mounds of grass.

My drift wood is still leaching out tanins, but honestly that fits with the soft acidic waters that these asian fish would have inhabited. They are thriving.










Some of my rasboras are hugely fat, but others arent. I presume its roe, but don't know for sure. I might not feed for several days and see how it goes.


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## reddhawkk (Dec 28, 2011)

I know a lot of people like the looks of clear water but I really like tannin stained water. The tank looks good!


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

Nice results. I am considering the Walstad method myself. Your success so far is encouraging!

CB


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Well I find myself diverging more and more from my understanding of a classic Walstad approach. 

Since my last update, I have cut back significantly on my use of water lettuce as the root system just swamped the rest of the tank. I now primarily have a floating layer of dwarf water spangles (Salvinia minima). Also, I start to get outbreaks of staghorn really badly. I was changing only a small amount of water per week, and I had very little water flow in the tank otherwise. I also was getting odd results from my T5 lights. Two seemed too bright, and contributed to algae, but one seemed too dim, and plants began to lose their lower leaves and stretch high up as much as they could.

I had a Flourish Excel battle with the algae to try and remedy the supposed carbon deficiency. More on that here. I won, but my stem plants melted to nothing. I significantly cut everything back, and switched out much of the back of the scape for ludwigia and bacopa species instead.

On a more exiting note, and a step further from low-tech, I purchased one of the new Fluval Plant 3.0 LED fixtures for my tank. This way I can carefully experiment with lighting levels and find what works for my tank. The app is also sweet. Here is a recent photo or two.


































In that last pic you can really see how the Bacopa was reaching as high as it could for light.

Here is my light profile for the time being. Its only 6 hours at full power, but several hours of "sunrise" and "sunset". The app does not support a "nap time" phase midday unless I just run the lights at a set manual output and control it with an external timer. For now, I will try this.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Quick update - added a drop checker which confirms I have less than optimal CO2 despite the bubbles in the substrate. I actually see less bubbles lately than I did before. Is the bacteria down there slowing? Could some of the Excel or other stuff have affected it? Does it not get enough "food" from waste?

I replaced the two Koralia Pico pumps with one Koralia Nano. The tank has pretty decent circulation going now, and I hope it doesnt bother the fish too much. The new plants seem like they are doing okay so far with the new light. I also decided to remove one of the pieces of wood as it kept falling over and just crowded the plants.

It also does not look this yellow/green. The phone is bad at getting the white balance of the photo correct.


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## Zxirl (Aug 12, 2017)

Less than optimal CO2 is expected in a low tech / walsted tank


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I like the fish selection and they look happy.

I would attach the 2 anubias to the driftwood, not leave them in the substrate.
One of the principles behind Walstad is that the plants are your filter. I personally would add more and a wider viriety of plants. You certainly have a wide viriety to choose from.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

OVT said:


> I like the fish selection and they look happy.
> 
> I would attach the 2 anubias to the driftwood, not leave them in the substrate.
> One of the principles behind Walstad is that the plants are your filter. I personally would add more and a wider viriety of plants. You certainly have a wide viriety to choose from.


I recently considered this, but wondered about how much the roots have grown down into the substrate in the last four months. I would hate to stir up a bunch of detritus and whatnot from pulling them up.

Point taken about me moving away from the walstad approach - I suppose its fair to say that with that approach I was not seeing the results that I wanted to see in my tank. I am moving more towards a mid-range tank still aimed at low maintenance, but taking advantage of technology where I can to help ensure good plant growth. Stated differently, if my attempt at walstad left me with struggling plants and algae, then I am going to try a different approach.

Here is the tank last night after a water change. The lighting is dimmed slightly as it is at the start of its "sundown" process shown here. 









Speaking of high tech, how about that guard around the HOB to keep the floating plants out of the return?? Pretty nice right?

In all seriousness, I think the plants like the new light. I see broader and flatter leaves on the newest growth.


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## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

I love the light standoffs. Genius.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Proteus01 said:


> I love the light standoffs. Genius.


Thanks for noticing! They were a quick fix with spare legos and superglue, but honestly I am considering designing some "cleaner" looking lego ones for a permanent install.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Decided to ditch the floating plants and added a surface skimmer. Check out the 3 weeks of growth since adding the CO2 and removing the floating plants!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Look at those plants! They're definitely filling in now that they've got a bit more help.

Out of curiosity, are you running the HOB filter with biomedia in or just as an aerator?


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Thelongsnail said:


> Look at those plants! They're definitely filling in now that they've got a bit more help.
> 
> Out of curiosity, are you running the HOB filter with biomedia in or just as an aerator?


No biomedia. There is a coarse block of filter foam mostly just to get debris out of the water.


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## Etok (Sep 11, 2018)

Hi I'm New here. Can anyone recommend beginners plants that I can start off with?


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Latest update. I started dosing seachem pre mixed ferts this past week after diagnosing nutrient shortage. Is it typical to lose nutrients after only 6 months of dirt?


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Two weeks of dosing Seachem ferts











While the plants are doing well, the fish are not. I was getting a few things at petsmart and noticed that they had two sad little rasboras all by themselves in their tank. I decided to bring them home to add to the group, and I *did not bother to quarantine them..... LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE*. They were apparently afflicted with something that affected rasboras particularly. The two additions died within a few days after developing white lesions on their bodies. It didnt stop there. I lost 7 of my original 10 rasboras to the same disease in the last week. My remaining three show no symptoms so I am hoping that their immune systems beat it. My cherry barbs and my sparkling gourami seem unaffected.


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## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

Sorry about the fish loss. I’ve done the same thing, with similar results. A little 10g is great for quarantine, with a sponge filter, little heater, no plants (unless the fauna really need it) and so no light needed. 

Nice looking tank.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Untitled by Jeff Bailey, on Flickr

Three weeks dosing, and staghorn still an issue. Just finished weekly maintenance, water change, and did a big pruning this time. The next pruning will probably be a severe cut back to keep the plants coming in more dense.


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## MarekC (Oct 1, 2018)

It is really coming together nicely!
I love the tannin in the water; always made these tanks feel more natural to me


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Latest update - 10/9

Was out of town since Saturday so I did my maintenance and everything on Tuesday this time. Still getting a touch of staghorn on older growth. Cut back the staurogene repens and replanted a bit.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

I didnt take a pic after tank maintenance on Sunday, but I need to figure out how to stop this staghorn. You can see it on some of the older growth areas of the staurogene repens.

My CO2 is about as high as I am willing to risk with my fish. I think I will adjust the powerhead and diffuser so that the diffuser's output is going stright up into the powerhead. Also, I will angle the powerhead a bit lower to circulate the CO2 lower in the water and hopefully more evenly. I think I will also try reducing my total light period to 7 hours with about 4 hours of that being "peak". I had the light at 100% output too, but now reducing the peak to 80% or so. I will give it two weeks and see how it goes.

I will be daily dosing Flourish Excel to try and beat it back a bit at the same time.


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## jprime84 (Oct 23, 2009)

Photo after tank maintenance today. Big water change as usual, but I also took the scissors to my staurogyne repens up front. Before the trim most pieces were at least 3 inches tall. I replanted some to thicken up the carpet, but ultimately just trashed a good pint of plant material. I believe I am seeing a reduction in some of the staghorn with my reduced light schedule (and dosing excel). I will continue this regiment for a while to see how it goes.


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