# first timer 40gal tall tank setup



## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Todays plan is to get some more plants from a different store as well as a few ghost shrimp and possibly a few fish. 

I have several questions:
1. Lighting 
I had considered getting a new hood with dual tubes. I'm worried that this one won't give enough light.

2. Temperature
It is freaking cold in there. roughly 23C. All of those plants say that they are fine in that temperature. For some odd reason I was thinking I'd have to heat this tank. (the plant tank at the fish sop was warm to the touch)


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

It sounds like you bought Amano shrimp. Is your tank cycled? If not, then you'll more than likely loose the shrimp since their sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. The plants are jungle val and anubias, just be sure not to bury the rhizome on the anubias. It would be good to tie it to the driftwood (and tie down the driftwood so it's completely submersed) so its roots can attach to it.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks! I will promptly un-bury the rhizome when I get home. I'll keep my fingers crossed on the little shrimpies too. 

They are considerably darker than the pictures of Amano I've found. the tank was labelled cherries, but their color is almost the same as a wood shrimp, but with different patterns.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

I took a quick trip to the pet store to see what they've got. 

I'll be picking up some zebra danios, a couple more plants, and possibly an additional light. 

I believe I'll be picking up an "aqua-glo" or maybe a "power-glo"(both rated 1800k). Not sure which though.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

Something to consider, if you care about the welfare of your fish, would be to do a fish-less cycle with your tank instead of causing their gills to be burned for life.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

oooh, I certainly don't want to hurt any little fishies. I guess I'll just get some plants and the additional light and filter tonight.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll probably move the shrimp to my established tank while the big one cycles. 

Now I need to research cycling to figure out that whole process I guess. searching for it is near impossible because the term is used so very much.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

OK,
I've read a few guides. I'll put some established gravel into the new tank and buy a kit for testing the water. I'll do a fishless cycle because burnt gills sounds horrible.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

How big is your established tank? Something else that's really good to do to speed up the cycling process is to squeeze the filter media from an established filter into the new tank (better yet is to add the filter media itself directly into the new filter, but that's only if you won't be taking that media away from a tank that you're continuing to keep fish in). There's different ways to add an ammonia source for the beneficial bacteria to establish/feed on, you can either put in some flake food and let it decompose or you can use Ace brand pure ammonia. If you're willing to slowly add fish (after cycle is complete add only 1 fish, wait a few days for the bacteria build to handle the ammonia produced by that fish, then add another fish, wait a few days, etc/repeat) in the tank then the flake food method would be a good way to. If you want to add a large fish load right away then the pure ammonia route is the way to go. Just be sure if you go that route that you definitely get pure ammonia with nothing but ammonia in the ingredients... no other chemicals, surfacants, perfumes, dyes, etc.

Oh and the whole "fill the tank with water from an established tank" is not a way to have an instantly cycled tank. There's very very little beneficial bacteria floating around in the water, the bb likes to settle onto things like gravel, plants, filters/filter media... especially filter media... the bb's really like the oxygen flow of a filter/filter media.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm responding on my phone, so I'll be brief.

Established tank is 10 gallons. The new tank got a rock, a plant, a sprinkling of gravel from the old. I also took the cartridge from the old filter and just dropped that sucker in the new tank.

Don't worry, I'm not using charcoal anymore. I bought some nice filter material and cut new inserts for the old filter and the one I bought tonight. Both are HOB.

My water level wasn't high enough for the new one so it is hanging *inside* the aquarium till tomorrow when I'll have more deck primates water.

I got the additional light and some plants. I'll ask questions about proper planting tommorrow when I can post pictures.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Stupid autocorrect. Deck primates = dechlorinated.

Also thanks for the tips.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

Did you leave _any_ old filter media in the old filter? If not, then you may throw the 10 gallon into a cycle. If the old cartridge is sitting in the new tank with no filter/oxygen/airstone then a lot, if not all, of the beneficial bacteria will start dying. Don't forget to throw some flake food in the tank so the bb's can feed on it... starving bacteria = dead bacteria.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Can't find this in the plant profiles. Roots are completely different than anubias. No idea how it should be planted.

Here's the Whole tank.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

trixella said:


> Did you leave _any_ old filter media in the old filter? If not, then you may throw the 10 gallon into a cycle. If the old cartridge is sitting in the new tank with no filter/oxygen/airstone then a lot, if not all, of the beneficial bacteria will start dying. Don't forget to throw some flake food in the tank so the bb's can feed on it... starving bacteria = dead bacteria.


There's a sponge and a cartridge in the old tank. I've changed that cartridge 5 or 6 times this year with no problems. Problably due to the fact that theres just a guppy, a pleco, and a shrimp in there... Along with a lot of generic plant. This should basically be the same. The several month old cartridge is now floating in the new tank with the new filter running.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

That plant isn't aquatic, it will do well with its roots being in water but the stems and leaves won't live submersed, so it will do well in a riparium or terrarium/vivarium set up. It's a type of begonia.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

calebkraft said:


> There's a sponge and a cartridge in the old tank. I've changed that cartridge 5 or 6 times this year with no problems. Problably due to the fact that theres just a guppy, a pleco, and a shrimp in there... Along with a lot of generic plant. This should basically be the same. The several month old cartridge is now floating in the new tank with the new filter running.


Cool, if it's got old sponge material in it still then that will definitely prevent a cycle when the cartridge is replaced. roud:


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I doing the math wrong here? I finally measured this aquarium and I get 12x22x30=7,920 cubic inches= 120 gal...


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

It's actually a 35g, the same tank I have. You'll need far more light than 15W if you want to grow anything more than crazy low light plants. I have 2x24W T5HO lighting in my tank and I'm medium light. Let's get some more info, what are your actual fish plans, what kind of filter is that? If you can give us some more info people on here will give you some great ideas on how to achieve what you want, rather than you having to do trial and error figuring out what you want and what works for you.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Haha, had a little too much wine last night and was using some online conversion.

Anyway, I've been posting from work since my home Internet is out, so I got some stuff wrong. Upon further inspection the day-glo bulb is 20w. I added the 18w aqua-glo last night as well.

My original plan was to go low light, low tech, rip/viv. I wanted a section at the top for some semi aquatics. However I stupidly went HOB and this sucker is big. To have it down at the water line would take up considerable space. Should have gone cannister! Oh well, I'm flexible.

Fish plans: I figured I'd get something tough and fairly small. After some research, I settled on a few zebra danios. I'm thinking 5-ish. Other than that I might add my current pleco or get some other similar, but smaller.

I love inverts, so I planned on having shrimp as well. Still researching to make sure I'm not overcrowding, but I was thinking roughly 10.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

trixella said:


> That plant isn't aquatic, it will do well with its roots being in water but the stems and leaves won't live submersed, so it will do well in a riparium or terrarium/vivarium set up. It's a type of begonia.


Bummer, they were selling it as aquatic. Jerks. 

Oh well. I pulled it all out this morning and gave it a nice soggy spot in the window. While I was pulling and inspecting this morning I noticed some dark fuzz on one of my Anubias. Now that I've been searching the forums, it appears to be BBA. It is big enough, it had to have been there when I bought it... I just didn't notice. 












> what kind of filter is that?


Tetra whisper EX45. I removed the carbon pouch and replaced it with raw filter material.

I also got a decent pic of one of my unknown shrimp this morning.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

> However I stupidly went HOB and this sucker is big. To have it down at the water line would take up considerable space. Should have gone cannister!


An internal filter is another option for a riparium set up. I have a 37 gallon riparium that I'm using a Fluval U2 internal filter in.


> Bummer, they were selling it as aquatic. Jerks.


Yeah, they do that crap. 

On the anubias you can treat the bba with excel (but I would treat the plant out of the tank since shrimp are sensitive to excel) and cut off the heavily affected areas.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks. I'll clean up that plant today. 

I've been researching the fauna I'd like to get. Frankly, I'm more excited about inverts than the fish. After further research, the Danios might be a little too high strung for me so I might go to tetras.

On the inverts side... I WANT THEM ALL! ... but I'll just start with the easiest and most forgiving which seams to be the cherry shrimp. I'd love to add in some others, like the bamboo shrimp and stuff but I'd be smart to wait till I'm more experienced.


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Just be aware that getting cherries will limit your fish options. If the shrimp can fit in the fish's mouth, it will likely get eaten. I'd stick with amanos, I also find them more interesting than cherries too.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

epiphany said:


> Just be aware that getting cherries will limit your fish options. If the shrimp can fit in the fish's mouth, it will likely get eaten. I'd stick with amanos, I also find them more interesting than cherries too.


Yeah, I thought about that. those bright red guys in my black and green aquarium would have to stand out. I have PLENTY of hiding paces and tons of vertical space. I planned on getting a few different kinds. We'll see how each does.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

If I could start over I would just do shrimp and nerite snails... I would have never bought all the different tetras, bettas, white cloud minnows I have. The only fish I'm attached to are my gardneri killifish, dwarf puffers, and whiptail catfish.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

yeah, I'm not too interested in fish, but I have SO MUCH VERTICAL SPACE. :eek5:

If funds were unlimited and I were starting over, I'd be tempted to do a giant moss wall and go all inverts. For now, I'll just have a handful of tetras or something to keep things interesting and amuse my kids.

I just found this thread on light.This clears up a lot of questions for me and I guess means that I'm very low light. I think I'm roughly 1w per gallon and all that vertical space doesn't help at all. I'm broke though, so I guess I'll deal with it for now.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

OK...
After a few days of obsessively reading this forum, I've determined that I have no idea what I'm doing :icon_conf That's not horrible though. I love learning new stuff.

My 40G is still working on its first cycle. I haven't seen any bumps in nitrates really yet. I've realized that my lighting is pretty pathetic... like everyone was telling me. I think I'll leave it as it is for now in terms of plants and see if I can just keep it alive and healthy for a while. 


The good news is though, I have a 10gal that will be free soon for another project! I've been researching and I've already got plenty of light. I'll probably try a little fancier in terms of aesthetics, but still low tech. Purely shrimp in that one though.


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

If you don't want to spend the money on better lighting on this one what I would do is have a lot more hardscape, look for tall pieces of driftwood and then use mosses, ferns, anubias and the like which should still grow slowly with your light. Then with the 10g do more higher lighting and fancier plants. Maybe with the 35g focus more on the fish.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

OK... Someone educate me on filters. This tanks is CLOUDY and I want to make sure I'm still on track. 

Nitrates at 5, Ammonia at .002.

I read in a couple places that the charcoal in some filters is unnecessary/bad. I have removed mine and put in strait filter material. Is this correct? Am I going down the wrong road here?


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Your first bacteria bloom, nearly every tank will get one, possibly more.


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## bonaparte (Feb 21, 2011)

It took me forever to cycle my first big tank. Almost a month but I only lost one fish through the whole painful ordeal. Stick with it and you'll get through it. 

I love an overcrowded tank. One thing to keep in mind with tall tanks is that their surface area is smaller than a long tank of the same volume. That's going to limit how many fish your tank will support more directly than the extremely vague "one inch of fish per gallon" rule of thumb. If your fish start gulping oxygen at the surface, you've got too little oxygen (or too much ammonia or both). To a point you can compensate with a big filter and lots of plants.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

ok, so I realize I'm cycling. My 10 gallon tank has done this from time to time with big changes (not that I had any ida what was going on), but it was never this extreme. 

None of you have addressed the question of charcoal in the filter though. So... any input?


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Waste of money except using it to remove any meds if you had to treat the tank. It can remove nutrients that your plants would use. Activated carbon doesn't stay that active for too long either.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

epiphany said:


> Waste of money except using it to remove any meds if you had to treat the tank. It can remove nutrients that your plants would use. Activated carbon doesn't stay that active for too long either.


Thanks. Just wanted to make sure since this thing is so very very cloudy. I was expecting cloudy, but wow.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't even see the filter!


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

It should clear up over the next couple days


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

I did a 30% water change. Mainly just so I could feel like I was doing something. From what I've read that should make virtually no difference in the cycle. Right?


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

It may slow it down a bit because you're removing some of the ammonia and nitrates, but if you have fauna in that tank then I think it's much more humane to do the water changes to keep ammonia and nitrites lower. What ever you do, don't resort to chemical water clarifiers, they can be deadly for some fauna.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

There are only a few little random shrimp in there, I guess I could let it ride.


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Yeah, it might slow it down a tad but as mentioned it would be better on the shrimp. Has it cleared up at all yet?


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

nope, still a solid cloudy block!


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

After reading a LOT more and setting up a couple tiny tanks, I think I need to do something to this to make it interesting (after it clears up). 

I need to use that vertical space somehow. I was thinking of using stacked flower pots up the sides to get a cool use of vertical space. I could also plant some plants that require more light, closer to the surface. 

I really just don't feel like buying a massive piece of driftwood for this one, but still want something interesting going on vertically.


Just brainstorming here:


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Yeah, with our tanks it looks so bare without going vertical. I used taller pieces of wood but what you want would work fine too. Depending on the surface of the pots you might even be able to get some kind of moss to grow on some/all of them, which would give it a pretty interesting look imo.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

yeah, that is if this thing ever clears up!


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

I can see the stuff at the back of the aquarium again! It is clearing up a little.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Major improvement! It has cleared up considerably. I also took out that cruddy wood I had and added some pots to break things up vertically. This is, by no means fancy aquascaping but it will be tons of fun to watch the shrimps running around on all of this!


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Very nice, should clear up fully fairly soon. Any other plans on the tank?


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, basically I want tons of plants. 

I will drop my 4 headlight/taillight tetras and my guppy in there. I may get a couple ottos. I am even considering getting a few small tetras (cardinal or neon), I love how they look when they school. I really really really don't want to overpopulate though. I figured a total of 10-12 tiny fish in a 40 gal tank with my hardscaping should be ok right? 

Aside from that, it is going to just be a shrimp playground!

Since I have so much vertical space and areas to chill, I've halfway considered getting a crawfish, but I'm afraid it would still just be to damn mean.


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

I found a way for you to upgrade your lighting cheap if you want to, you'd need a glass top or something though. I was at a hydroponics shop today and picked up a sunblaster 24"T5HO fixture/lamp for $30. It's a 24 watt bulb and linkable, it also seems to give light all the way down to the substrate. I'd expect it to be cheaper as you live in the states, maybe $20-$25 for the fixture. 2 of these should be able to get you into a medium light category without breaking the bank on an expensive fixture. Other than that sounds like a decent plan, lots of plants are good. And yeah you could probably even go with a larger school of like 20 total, but I'd say stick with a smaller number, and if you stay with smaller ones get a nice colony of shrimp going.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

everything is cleared up nicely. 









I got my shrimp and one of them is berried!


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Just an update. Everything seems pretty healthy. I currently have 10 neon tetras, 3 cory juleii, a guppy from an old tank and a bunch of cherry red shrimp. 

I'd really like to just re-scape it to be more to my liking. Right now it looks like an herb garden!


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Just completely reshaped! water is dirty and I've decided I need better lighting, but so far I'm much happier with it.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Just ordered a zoomed t5ho dual bulb for this. That should push a few more photons to the bottom! Got 10,000 and 6,500 bulbs to start with.


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Nice, how much did it cost?


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

the fixture without the bulbs was only like $64.


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## kcartwright856 (Jan 16, 2012)

I actually kinda liked the potted herbs look! It looks very nice now, though!


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

finally got my zoomed dual t5ho in. Huge difference! (culling some duckweed helped too)


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Did you ever get a new filter or is that why your water level is still low?


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

I still have the HOB filter. I just kind of like the water that low. there are a lot of reasons, such as having space for my water lettuce, being lazy, and the fact that my center brace is long gone.


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## calebkraft (Jan 3, 2012)

Time for an update!


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