# Phoenix's Betta Albimarginata (pics 2/24)



## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Fry Care: Albi fry are fairly hardy. However, there are a few things they hate. Number one: Large water changes. Never change more than 10% of their water, and don't change their water for the first month. When I move them from the breeder net to the fry tank I take an airline hose and drip acclimate them to the fry tank for over an hour, after that I float them for fifteen minutes to make sure the temp is the same before moving them. In a perfect world the male would be in the fry tank and you'd move him and not them...but I don't have enough tanks to do this. 

Do NOT use breeding boxes, the slits are too large. Use a breeding net. Do not raise them in the net, there is not enough circulation and they get caught under the plastic frame and die. 

My first batch of F1 day one (note the box...I lost nearly this whole batch into the tank)










F1 one week later (belly full of food):










F1 three weeks later (Albi grow slow, 4-6 months to reach adult):










F1 five weeks old:










F1 two months old:










F1 two months old showing male colours:


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Fry Food: I feed live micro/walter/banana worms that I have in one big culture. Easy to care for worms, just place them in a container (with lid) with some wet oatmeal and a sprinkle of yeast. To collect the worms spray water onto of the oatmeal and sides of container the night before, next morning they will be up on the sides and you can rub them off with a q-tip. I also feed fresh hatched brine shrimp.

All live food for a few weeks then I start introducting frozen daphina, and cyclopseze. Later crushed micro wafers by hikari. Adults/sub-adults get frozen, hikari, and live blackworms.

I feed small amounts twice a day.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Fry tank: My current fry tank is a bare bottom picotope stuffed with pellia with a few pieces of slate (they like to hang out on the slate). There is a small HOB filter with a sponge over the intake.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

New born F1










I lost this whole batch to a 50% water change. Learned a hard lesson with that one.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

My first batch of F2!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Current grow out/breed tanks waiting to cycle. I will wait a good two to three weeks before adding any betta. Right now all of my stock are in a ten gallon, and two three gallons.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I just happened to be near my LFS and thought I'd drop in. They've had a pair of wild caught Betta Albimarginata that I've had my eye on for a month, but I couldn't bring myself to pay 80 bucks for this pair (they weren't the greatest). When I went in today the rotting corpse of the female was on the bottom of the 2 gallon tank they were in (she must have been dead at least three days) and the male was next. He is painfully thin (they were trying to feed just flake).

So although I shouldn't have I paid 30 bucks to take the male. I hope some live blackworms and some time in a good sized tank (the ten gallon) will whip him back into shape and I can add a touch more wild genes to my stock.

I think he was way too expensive for a dying fish (talked down from 40), but I couldn't just leave him there to die. I love these guys too much.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

My best pics:

Wild male holding eggs:










Wild female in full display:










Wild handsome:


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Some of my F1s in their new home with Ebichua


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

This is what happens if you have too much space for your fry tank. These two are the same age. These guys were in a ten gallon and since these are wait and grab predators they tend to stay in once place and wait for food to come to them. Which is why I now raise them in a three gallon till they are 1/2 inch.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

F2 in a row! I've since removed the sand.











I've made a lot of mistakes along the way, but I've finally gotten to a point where I seem to sort of know what I'm doing. I currently have 18 fry. Five adults. Eight sub-adults. I have seven diffrent blood lines from swaping Albi with other breeders. In about six months I should be a fully established breeder.

I welcome questions! I spent nearly an hour on the phone with a guy who had just brought home a pair only to find that the male was already holding.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Speedie 408 just sent me a pic of a pair of Albi that they are breeding...that just happen to be my babies! Ebichua let them borrow them for breeding. I'm so proud.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looks like you're getting a really nice setup going!

Congrats on all the fry!

And best of luck with that rescued male... hopefully he pulls through.

I'd PP any equipment that you put in that tank with him, though. It'd be horrible if he brought something in that took out any of the rest of your stock.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Here are some Questions I've gotten along the way and my answers.

Q: How long from when the eggs hatch to the point the male spits out the babies? I'm asking because I'm at the point where I can see the babies wiggling through his gills.

A: If you see wriggling when it first starts you've got two to three days till he spits them out. The moment I spot eyeballs I move my male into a breeder net (not a box, the slots in the boxes are too big and the babies slip out). Once they are spat out the male will only remember them for a day or so...and then they will become lunch. So if you want high yield you need to keep babies and parents apart.

I had one male spit out too early and all the babies had egg yolk sacs (it was his second batch) so I placed them in a cup of water with java moss and they just laid in the moss, three days later they were free swimming!

If you catch them mating or you notice that one day he eats and the next day he doesn't, mark that date on the calandar since that they tend to hold for 12-15 days (although I had one dad hold on for 22 days) and that way you don't have worry about spotting wriggling you can just place them in the breeder net on the 11th day.


Q: What is their adult size?
A: A little over two inches.

Q: Are these passive betta?
A: Yes, in fact they do best in schools. They are peaceful to community fish although a regular betta splendid may beat up on them.

Q: What is the smallest take size?
A: I have heard of people keeping them in two gallons, I suggest at least 10 for adults.

Q: Do they jump?
A: Yup.

Q: How much do you sell them for?
A: I sell full adult sexed pairs for 45$.

Single adult female for 25.

Single adult male for 30 (so just buy the pair...giggle).

Sub-adult unsexed single for 20$

With discounts on schools of 4 or more. 4 unsexed for 75, 6 unsexed for 100.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks! I'm not worried about him bringing in any diseases cause he's been in quatintine in the pet store for several months, were I've been keeping an eye on him. It was clear that the female died of starvation and that he was soon to follow. Right now I have three tanks worth of these guys.


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Props to writing all these information down. It's sure to help out new betta albimarginata breeders out. Carefull, some dude might take these info and pictures and publish it on a website.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks! I hope it does help. 

I'm not too worried about someone stealing my shots and my info and spreading the word because in the end I don't make any money or anything off my pictures and if the info can help out other breeders I'm okay with that too. 

It would be *nice* if someone decides to turn this into a web page that they link back to me...but I know the internet is full of thieves and I kinda just accept it. Giggle.


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## roznalos (Aug 18, 2008)

Thanks for the info! I would love to acquire a pair of these betta in the future when I setup my 20 long.

How much would shipping cost usually?


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Shipping is normally about 7 bucks. They do well in Priority as long as the weather is good.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

This is very cool! You clearly spent a lot of time putting together all of this information and laid it out so nicely that it makes me want to breed these guys! Unfortunately, I don't really have the time or the space (or the $) for any breeding currently, but maybe one day!  They are very cool looking Betta though, any idea how they'd do with smaller fish? like say... CPDs?


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I have three CPDs in the holding tank with six of these guys right now. They are 100% peaceful. I just love them. I'm hoping this forum will help other Albi breeders, and those thinking of getting into them.

My rescue male ate today!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Damn, you beat me to the punch Phoenix. I was going to post a breeding journal on the pair I have lol. You won't mind if I post up random pics on this thread will you? The male was colored up (all redish orange with solid black and whites on his fins) this morning. I was late for work so I couldn't snap a good pic of him. dammit! 

I'm glad you made this thread.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Phoenix-cry said:


> I have three CPDs in the holding tank with six of these guys right now. They are 100% peaceful. I just love them.


This is awesome to hear! Maybe by the time you have babies old enough to sell, I'll have a tank set up and the $ to get some. By then I'll have a better idea of which fish that i have now are going to be in which tank too. I'm moving so right now i only have my 30g set up but once I move i want to set up my 10g and 5g again and i'm trying to figure out stocking.....



Phoenix-cry said:


> My rescue male ate today!


Yay!!! :bounce: that's so wonderful to hear, I'm sure he's in the best hands he could be in with you!


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## Shadow (Sep 19, 2006)

Phoenix-cry where in Minnesota are you?

Maybe once I get the basement [maybe this next year] done and my 125g set-up. Ill gt some of these for my 75g.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Speedie: Go ahead and post some pics here! I'd love to have them in this thread along with anything you learn along the way.

Kara: Yup, these guys are great and they'd love a 10 or larger, I don't recommend keeping them in a 5.

Shadow: I am in St. Paul. They'd love a 75!


The male is looking great today. He's crusing around, he's got a big belly on his thin body now. giggle


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Will do. 

I got another question for ya:

Will the male eat anything from the point of carrying eggs till the release of the babies?


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

So glad to hear your new little guy is eating!!! I thought I'd check your thread to see how he's doing! So glad you took him home! He may turn out to be one of the best colored ones you have, since you were so kind to him!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Males will not eat anything until after they spit out the babies.


Thanks Tex Gal! He has a LOT of personality (for a fish), he's not shy at all! Can't wait till he's fat!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

My male still hasn't released the babies (they have been wiggling since Tuesday). Will they be okay if he decides to hold them longer? Were the frys okay when your male decided to hold them for 22 days?

Thanks.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Phoenix-cry said:


> F2 in a row! I've since removed the sand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awwwwww! This is an adorable picture! Congratulations on the successful breeding!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Speedie: The ones he held on to for 22 days were a little weak and a lost more of them than the other batches. But there is nothing to be done for it. Try adding plants to his breeder net to make him feel more comfy.


Sewing: Thanks!!!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Here is a pic I took today of my most dominant F1 male strutting his stuff! He's got the deep red just like his daddy.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Here's an update on the F2 fry. Look at those eyeballs!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

This little guy is part of a batch of F2 that were born several days premature (male freaked when I moved him to the net and spat them all out). They had little egg yolk bellies and couldn't swim. I placed them in a cup of water stuffed with java moss and they matured just like normal.

This is two or so weeks later.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I am just amazed at these buggers! How often do you feed your fry?


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I'm freaking head over heels for them. Giggle. It's a sad but true story. 

Newborns are treated to three feedings a day for the first week. For the next two months they are fed twice a day. Sub-adults and adults are fed once a day.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Here's to add to this thread: My male released all 25 of his babies 2 days ago. He's already colored up nicely but I won't let them mate just yet. He needs to fatten up a little more.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Phoenix-cry said:


> (male freaked when I moved him to the net and spat them all out)


Have you ever tried herding them into containers to move them instead of netting? That can work better with some fish...


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

That is excellent! They look great Speed!


Laura- I will give that a try next time, thanks!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

My main F1 is holding! Yeah! More fish in 15 days!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Male is doing well and still holding his little guys. The eggs now have eye spots. You have to wait till the male gulps water over the eggs in order to see them...this takes a very watchful eye.


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## Germitune (Oct 24, 2009)

Awesome news for you all... grats! Keep the news coming.

I thought I had found 2 females for my males through my fish guy but alas they were males... he is still looking for me. :fish:


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

The whole waiting list thing kinda got out of hand (plus I've been told that Planted Tank Forum doesn't like people starting lists). So from now on whenever I have these guys for sale you'll be able to find them on Aquabid. Since this forum doesn't allow aquabid links just keep your eyes peeled on the Wild Betta side of that sight.

Soon come....betta imbellis!!!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

New batch of F2 spit out today! The largest batch yet! 35! This is going to be my last batch of F2, I'm getting in a new set of wilds and I'm going to split them up with my CBs and get back to breeding F1. 

Also:

Okay, so anyone out there that breeds wilds or other fish that could use the help of a breeder box know that the two solutions out there...well..suck. Options one: plastic breeder box, problem: fry are often tiny enough to slip through slits and there is poor circulation. Option two: breeder net, problem: the fry easily get trapped between frame and net and die.

Solution?

I'm going to take a ziplock container (thinner plastic than tupperware), and cut the bottom out and one large hole in each side, take the breeder net and aquarium sealant it to the holes. This way you get a breeder box with a lid (I have to saranwrap my breeder net top cause the male always jumps out), and a place where newly spat out fry can hang for a day or two in a target rich enviroment before being released into the main tank (also gives you a chance to count the fish). 

Here's the kind of box (with fry from today) only this one is a touch small.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Congrats! Nice spawn!


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

im super jealous of those fish


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks! this is best spawn yet the babies are nearly 1/4 of an inch already! Daddy held them a few days longer than he should have, but they have not suffered for it. 


These guys have become an obesssion for me!


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

congrats again... side note My tilapia snyderae just hatched out i got 30 free swimmers already!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

awesome! pics?


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

not yet, I only have my camera phone cause we bred them at the shop... i'll bring my dslr in friday when I have work... its cool though... haha


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I just got in a new wild caught male! I'm so excited, he's very beautiful, I'll get pics later!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Here is a new F2 fry hanging out on an almond leaf. So cute when they are small.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

How old is that one?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

wow that's so exciting, congrats! 

And what a great shot of that baby!!! WOW!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Phoenix,

I know you're aching to see these babies, so here they are. They're getting bigger by the day.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Squeee!! The new babies look great!! 

Let's see the pic I took that little one is about two maybe three weeks old.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Speedie, what temp are you keeping them at and what are you feeding them they are growing *fast*!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Phoenix-cry said:


> Speedie, what temp are you keeping them at and what are you feeding them they are growing *fast*!


I don't use a tank heater. I just keep my apt regulated around 72*, so the water temp is always hanging around 68-71*. Up till yesterday, I've been feeding them strictly newly hatched BBS. I just found out they'll chomp on diced up blackworms **Yummy!** That should speed up their growth even more. roud:


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I'll have to try dicing up some blackworms! I've been doing microworms, bbs, and daphina at around 73. 

How old are your babies now?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

They're about a month old now. How about yours?


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

The one in the pic is like two weeks old. I also have some that are five days old, some eggs in mouth, and some two month olds...along with my adults. 

There are betta everywhere in my house! Giggle. I'm keep all the adult and sub-adults that I have right now as breeding stock (I've been trading them with other breeders on line so that now only two of my adults are related to one another). I should have a MASSIVE amount ready for sale at about the end of Feb.

Are you going to be selling your guys on aquabid?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

No. They are already reserved for some local members. I am planning to keep the rest.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

i prefer breeding betta splendens...they are much more beautiiful and cooler and its easier to breed(for me) i have bred about 40+ copper gold HF bettas last year..lol(i was 12 last year >.>)


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

adrianng1996 said:


> i prefer breeding betta splendens...they are much more beautiiful and cooler and its easier to breed(for me) i have bred about 40+ copper gold HF bettas last year..lol(i was 12 last year >.>)


To each his own though, Betta splendens are certainly more flashy, but these guys are beautiful in their own right, and probably not so different looking than wild Betta splendens, the ones we see in pet stores (and that you probably breed, which by the way, EXCELLENT accomplishment for being only 12!) have be selectively bred to have the flowing tails and bright colors that we're used to seeing. 

And I have to say, these fish seem like they're quite easy to breed, well not live-bearer easy of course, but it seems they're so eager to breed that making sure they DONT breed so the males can eat something is the difficult part! :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Phoenix-cry said:


> New batch of F2 spit out today! The largest batch yet! 35! This is going to be my last batch of F2, I'm getting in a new set of wilds and I'm going to split them up with my CBs and get back to breeding F1.
> 
> Also:
> 
> ...


This is ingenious! Great idea. I am always awed by your creativity. :thumbsup:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oh! I totally forgot to mention that I love this idea too! If I ever get into any kind of breeding again I'm definitely using this idea!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Karackle: once you get the setting right for the albi they breed like guppies! Giggle. I'm about to try my hand at breeding Plakat so I'll let you know who is more difficult. The hardest part is just getting the conditions right. I just got a pair from someone online who had had them for several months with no breeding and within a week in my tank he is now holding. The hardest part about albi is not getting the fry...but raising them. I've made a few mistakes and ended up losing whole batches. 


As for the new kind of breeder box, the male is releasing in one week and I'm going to test it out so I'll let you all know!

Adrian: That's is awesome! I like betta splendid as well...I like just about any betta.


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## toueeyoreeyang (Dec 13, 2009)

It's awesome that you are getting so many different bloodlines. Let us know when you are ready to thin out your stock and we will come running. I definately will!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Awesome fish!!

When the weather is safe enough to ship them up north I want a pair to add to my 55g.

Do they eat many shrimp?

-Andrew


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Weather is safe now, but I don't have any at the moment ready for sale (I have unipack 72 hour heat packs). They will eat any shrimp that fit in their mouths, but I have a few CRS in with them (they eat the babies though)


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Just an update: The fry are getting bigger by the day! I have been swaping adults with some other Albi breeders and as a result none of the fish in my breeding tank stock are related to one another. I have my F1 stallion due to spit babies in a few days, and a new wild caught holding as of last night. 

The last batch of fry are now about 1/4 of an inch, the batch before that are 1/2 inch. Albi grow sloooooowly. There are about 30-40 fry at the moment and my breeding stock is 3 males, 6 females. I'm looking to even that out a bit.

I should have albi up for sale in a few months (if the locals don't snap them up).


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Tank crash!!!! Ack! I went away for the holiday and columnaris struck one tank of new wild mac and then got cross contaminated into my adult albi and female plakats.

All my adult albi are dead, half the plakats are as well, and all the Macrostoma. 

I'm heartbroken.

Anyway, now that I know what it is and what I'm dealing with I'm taking steps to undo the damage. I don't know why columnaris struck, I have good filtration, clean water (tested perfect) and low temp 72-74. Not really what columnaris likes, but that is certainly what I got.

Good news: My fry are uncontaminated as of right now. There are about 20-30 fry that are doing well and getting bigger. Going to import six adult pair and start again. This time I will have two tanks of adults and each tank will get it's own net and NO MORE plant sharing!! I used to switch plants from tank to tank when one tank would over grow and another tank would be a little more bare. This is where I got the cross contamination.

Lesson learned the very hard way.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oh no! I am so sorry to hear about your loss, that kind of loss is certainly heartbreaking! I'm so glad to hear that the fry have stayed thus far disease free, that means you will still have those gorgeous genes in your gene pool....silver lining i guess? And definitely a good idea to keep everything separated from now on, just to be safe. Good luck with the start over! Keep us posted!


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## Reeyia (Jun 13, 2009)

So interesting that I spotted this post! I have wild pairs of Chanoides and Albimarginata on the way! Great info you have posted here and I am very appreciative of it!!
I am having a problem with the tanks that are waiting for them in that I cannot get the temps lower then 76 degrees. I am not using heaters and I have the lights for the plants raised as far as the plants will tolerate. Do you have any suggestions for me about this? I have no where to use a fan so the only thing I can think of, unless you have another suggestion, is cutting the heat vent down to the entire room.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Damn Phoenix. Sorry to hear about your loss. Glad the little ones are OK at least. Very sad indeed. Just keep on truckin. You'll be back up in stock in no time.


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## Germitune (Oct 24, 2009)

Wow! Very sorry to hear about this! I hope all goes well with the fry and the future adults!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Reeyia said:


> So interesting that I spotted this post! I have wild pairs of Chanoides and Albimarginata on the way! Great info you have posted here and I am very appreciative of it!!
> I am having a problem with the tanks that are waiting for them in that I cannot get the temps lower then 76 degrees. I am not using heaters and I have the lights for the plants raised as far as the plants will tolerate. Do you have any suggestions for me about this? I have no where to use a fan so the only thing I can think of, unless you have another suggestion, is cutting the heat vent down to the entire room.


I know I'm not Phoenix (obviously :tongue but I have a suggestion for you  As long as you are not injecting CO2 (which I would assume not in a breeding tank? I imagine you keep it low tech with low light plants?) you could try increasing water circulation / aeration. A couple of ways to do this would be to lower the water level a bit of you are using an HOB filter so that it has a bit of a waterfall effect and makes surface agitation, or you could try adding an airstone / bubble wall to increase surface agitation. This may not help a whole lot if the room itself is actually at 76 degrees, if that is the case, turning down the heat or adding a fan somewhere (Though i know you said this is not really an option)) might be your only options unless you buy a chiller, but that probably isn't worth the $ for a couple degrees. Actually, if you have just a regular pedestal fan you could try directing the airflow over the top of the water in conjunction with increased surface agitation, that could do the trick.

(sorry to hijack phoenix! )


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

DrsF&S had some clip-on tank fans that weren't terribly expensive not so long ago.


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## Reeyia (Jun 13, 2009)

Thanks Karackle and laureleellbp. These are both low tech tanks, natural type, with low to medium light plants. I'm going to lower the water level a bit for the waterfall and I have also closed the heat vent down a bit to lower the room temp in general. Will see if that makes a difference since I only need a couple of degrees it just might do it. Another thing I may consider is moving these 2 tanks to another room altogether, but we'll see.
And Phoenix-sorry to read you lost your fish, I know you will get your stock back up again; I can tell you have what it takes to do that!!
No intent to hijack either, sorry!! I think you've done a great job with your journal here and I, for one, have been glad to read it!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I was very heartbroken about the loss, but I'm starting up again! I have now treated every tank and everyone left is doing well!

I am getting six pairs of wild betta albimarginata shipped to me on Wed! Now I'll have 12 bloodlines. 

I've added three more tanks, so now I have a ten, a 20 and two 30s for various ages of albi.

I would use agitation just as suggested to bring the temp down. 74 would be better. it's always easier to heat than cool! Albi are not fond of high water flow and fear bubbles, so lowering the water is the right move!

Don't worry about any jijacking, it's all Albi talk!

Oh and although I lost my Mac and my male imbellis I did get a pair of betta simplex (CB)


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## Borg70 (Jul 6, 2009)

Hi i have been trying to breed a group of albi's i got well over a year ago and i have had little sucess. my first male spawned dozens of times and like clock work ate the eggs on the third day. After many months and countless failed spawns i retired him to my show tank to let my two younger males take a shot. One young male has started spawning and as of now he is on day 8 with his current bunch of eggs. I am currently a little worried tho because even tho he was still holding the eggs this morning, I found that my female was lit up in spawning colors and holding eggs of her own. What confuses me is that my only other male is showing no interest in the female. The male holding eggs still has eggs in his mouth but i don't know if they are the originals from 8 days ago or new ones. Will a male holding eggs swollow them in order to spawn again imediatley after? I apologize for the long post but I have just had so much trouble with these fish as far as spawning goes.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Let me know what your water parameters are and if these guys are wild or captive bred. I would get a divider in the tank (how many gallons?) and after spawning entice the rest of the fish to one side and block off the holding male so that he get's some peace. I have had one female breed a male right to death. 

Also is the tank in a high traffic area? Sometimes that can freak them into swalloing the eggs.


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## Borg70 (Jul 6, 2009)

I just tested and the paramiters are nitrate between 0 and 10, nitrite 0, the water is so soft it won't register (below 50 ppm), alkalinity 50 ppm, and the ph is 6.5. It is a twenty gallon long and it is very well planted with low light and a large peice of drift wood. Because of the set up dividing the tank is difficult but in the past I have spawned them in a smaller tank then carefully removed the female giving the male his own tank. The tank is in a low traffic room. In the past I have taken special care not to make loud noises near the tank while the male was holding eggs. I also kept the room dark other than the tank light which is on a timer. The male made it three days.

Do you add peat to your tanks? i have heard it helps but i have yet to try it.


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## Borg70 (Jul 6, 2009)

also the tank is 78 degrees which i have read is fine but i figure i would see what you think.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

That's really soft water, if you can bump that up a bit that might make them more comfortable. Also the breeding in a different tank is a great idea. 78 is too warm for albi to be truly comfortable. I keep mine between 72 and 74. I use Indian Almond Leaves instead of peat, but it's the same general idea, becareful though because with really soft water the peat can drop your pH like a stone. I keep my pH at 7, but 6.5 is fine. 

Has he now swallowed them again? 

The thing that you hav in your set up that is vastly different than mine is the hardness of the water. I have moderatly hard water and they seem to love it.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

just to chime in on the hardness bit, if you can get your hands on some crushed coral, i've found adding a little to the filter is a really good way to boost hardness / stabilize pH. I like i better than using an additive at water changes because it keeps the parameters consistent :thumbsup:


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## Borg70 (Jul 6, 2009)

the good news is that my male is still holding but i have no clue how old the eggs are. I have managed to get him into a net breeder with out having him swallow the eggs so the female cant bother him although she does try. Do you think it would be bad to lower the temp while the male is holding or should i just leave things as is till he is done?

I actually do have some crushed coral around becasue im raising some betta simplex and they are supposed to originate in very hard water so it would be easy enough to try it in my albi tank. I think i will wait to see how my male does with this batch before i make any changes to the water so i dont disturb him. by the way i very much appreciate the help.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I would keep everything just how it is until you see what happens with this batch! good luck!



More good news. A few months ago I bought a sickly Albi at a LFS in hopes of saving him. He died and the LFS said they'd get me a new pair 'at cost'. Well today the pair came in! So I now have an adult pair of Albi!! I'm also flying in six more pair on Wed. I'm setting four tanks just for Albi. I am going to start dividing my males and females and only bring them together to mate in small Rubbermaid (about two gallons) containers so that the female can be removed, leave the male be, let him spit, raise the fry in the Rubbermaid for a few weeks and then move them to the grow out. I'll have 13 blood lines! 

My newest male:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

He's gorgeous!

You're going to be quite the Albi factory! LOL


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I want to be the best Betta Albimarginata breeder in the USA! Giggle. I just LOVE these guys.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Okay, so the shipment did not go well. Several died before they even got to bangkok, and I was left with a surplus of females. Upon arrival the males one by one (there were only three) died off. Now I am left with three very healthy, very egg fat females, and no boys.

They have been doing mating dances at one another they are so full of eggs and need to breed. 

So, I recalled that I sold an adult pair of my F1s to a local a few months back. He's such a sweetie that he's going to let me borrow the male for a few weeks in order to 'stud' him to my female for a percentage of the fry. How awesome is that? 

I have five more males coming in three weeks from now, and if they all do well I'll be up and running as far as breeding goes!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

GORGEOUS MALE!  He'll make some beautiful babies!  

Sorry to hear about the trouble with the batch you ordered though! Such a bummer, usually it's a surplus of females that you'd want, but of course with one of the few species where you actually want more males than females you end up with the wrong surplus! Darn you Murphy and your laws! :hihi: 

And yes that is SO great of your fellow local enthusiast to share his male with you!  YAY for nice people! 

I hope the new shipment of males arrives in great condition and ready to go for you! roud:


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Damn Murphy! 

Yesterday the Albimarginata pair spawned and today I have proof of eggs. The father is a grandson of my first Albimarginata pair. The female is a wild caught. Daddy now has a mouth full of eggs. I'll let momma rest in there for a few more days before moving her back to her own tank.

So I'm back in the saddle again!


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## rmc (Dec 6, 2005)

That's awesome! I recently obtained a pair of macrostoma that I'm hoping to spawn in the very near future.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

If you get good captive bred macs I'm buying!!


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

You can see the eggs in his mouth! He bred yesterday. This is one of my males (borrowed back from the local that I sold him to), and a wild caught female.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Good stuff Phoenix! Mine are almost breeding size now. I just got 2 new bloodlines as well from a local club member. If I ever get as big as your operation, we can trade down the line to keep the genitics a bit diverse.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

How many could I keep in a species tank that is 72x18 footprint. I really like the looks of these.

Craig


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> How many could I keep in a species tank that is 72x18 footprint. I really like the looks of these.
> 
> Craig


These guys are rather peaceful compared to their Splendens cousin. I'm currently housing 20 of them in my new 20L. For that big of a tank, I'm willing to bet you can house up to 100 Albis in there roud:.


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## tinctorus (Feb 22, 2010)

Wow these guys are so freakin cool I have always LOVED the different types of betta's OTHER than splenden's

Once I get my tank cycled and the plants are doing well I would like to buy a male/female pair off of you, I think these guys are just BEAUTIFUL!!!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> These guys are rather peaceful compared to their Splendens cousin. I'm currently housing 20 of them in my new 20L. For that big of a tank, I'm willing to bet you can house up to 100 Albis in there roud:.


Thanks, I'm considering the Betta Rutilans right now. Wild Caught and quarantined here state side. I have a credit at a place online and could buy the Rutilans from them. They also have the Imbellis but I don't care for the looks of them as much.

Craig


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks guy! A big pack of albi would be very happy in a large sized species tank like that! 

I like Rutilans...but they are a bit on the small size for my tastes. Of course if you have a credit that makes the decision that much easier! 

Here are some of my newly imported boys, sorry about the bad pics, they are in quarintine and I don't want to disturb them. They are eating well.



















I currently have a breeding stock of three females and six males (it works best this way since males need a longer break between breeding than females).

I'm always interested in swaping genes!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Phoenix-cry said:


> Thanks guy! A big pack of albi would be very happy in a large sized species tank like that!
> 
> I like Rutilans...but they are a bit on the small size for my tastes. Of course if you have a credit that makes the decision that much easier!
> 
> ...


Thanks, they are smaller which is part of the reason I like them. Also since I have alot of credit to use I could get a large group of them without hurting hte pocket book.


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## rmc (Dec 6, 2005)

Phoenix-cry said:


> Thanks guy! A big pack of albi would be very happy in a large sized species tank like that!
> 
> I like Rutilans...but they are a bit on the small size for my tastes. Of course if you have a credit that makes the decision that much easier!
> 
> ...


I have some wild albimarginata and brownorum coming Monday. I'd be interested in swapping some offspring when I get some.

Are you attending the IBC Convention in Indianapolis this June?


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I want to go to the IBC Convention, but sadly I'm in the middle of clinicals so I can't go anywhere until July. Sigh. However, yes, I would love to swap some young ones!


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## plantedpufferfreak (Feb 2, 2010)

how much would a pair cost me with shipping?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

plantedpufferfreak said:


> how much would a pair cost me with shipping?


I know I paid from $70-100 a pair for mine with out shipping, express is usually about $35 or so, but my stock is either Wild or F1


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## Speaker73 (May 1, 2010)

Just wanted to revive this posting and ask if anyone has any captive bred fish for sale? Looking for a few males and females to possibly try breeding here in los angeles.


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## rmc (Dec 6, 2005)

I have some unsexed Betta Macrostoma I'd be willing to sell and ship.


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## Speaker73 (May 1, 2010)

rmc said:


> I have some unsexed Betta Macrostoma I'd be willing to sell and ship.


How much are you willing to sell them for? I sent you a PM, I think. If not, shoot me one.


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## rmc (Dec 6, 2005)

I answered the PM. I'm on the road this week so it takes me a while to respond.


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## ukgem (Apr 26, 2012)

*newbie*

Hi there, just wanted to say how helpful I found this post and it was because of this I ordered two of these guys, the seller assures the male is holding eggs so hope his journey wasn't too stressful, they seem settled in my heavily planted tank already and are very curious about me and their new surroundings. Hope your still breeding them. They are real stunners in real life


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Phoenix hasn't been active since late 2010. I've bred her fish before and they're lovely. Good luck with yours and have fun!


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## ukgem (Apr 26, 2012)

whats the best food for the adults, doing fine with mall my fry breeding cultures like microworms and vinegar eels but worried the adults won't get enough to eat with some of the other fish around them being so fast. Eventually will set up a species only tank


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I haven't bred in a while. But all mine ever wanted was live black worms.


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## SeattleFishGuy (Feb 16, 2012)

I know it's been over a year but are you still around? Can you PM me if so? 

Thanks for all the great info! roud:


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## Algae Beater (Jun 3, 2011)

I love seeing people with a passion for bettas like this. I have a whole section of my store dedicated to various wild betta species. I myself have some albimarginata in one of my tanks. Thanks for the awesome pictures and keep up the good work!


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## Snowflake311 (Apr 20, 2011)

This is Awesome. Very nice Good job.


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## SeattleFishGuy (Feb 16, 2012)

Algae Beater said:


> I love seeing people with a passion for bettas like this. I have a whole section of my store dedicated to various wild betta species. I myself have some albimarginata in one of my tanks. Thanks for the awesome pictures and keep up the good work!


What is the name of your store? I'm in Seattle and I bought a few of my Strawberry betta's at Clark Feed & Seed in Bellingham a few weeks ago. Just released the fry yesterday! roud:


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## Starfire & Mihkya (Jun 19, 2013)

are they mouthbrooders?


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## SeattleFishGuy (Feb 16, 2012)

Starfire & Mihkya said:


> are they mouthbrooders?


Yep


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