# Paint Fumes and lead dust - Fish Killer?



## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

Yesterday I was doing some paint stripping in my house and creating fumes from using a heat gun and probably creating some lead fumes and dust as well. I don't know if lead is toxic to fish or not, but I would assume yes. I was also using alcohol to strip shellac of woodwork. 

Last night I noticed in one of my tanks heavy breathing in my new pack of 6 wild Peruvian angelfish. Early this morning I found them upside down, sideways, and very near death. I did a quick 50% water change - One has recovered, one or two are dead, 2 are near death, and 2 are still in hiding (I hope still alive). The rest of the fish in the tank appear to be fine after the water change. 

Then, I checked on my other tank, which is closer to the paint action and even has a canopy (although the back is wide open) many of the cherry shrimp had died. Did a water change there too. 

Last night I noticed the water was a little cloudy and the fish were breathing heavily - lots of surface scum - I should have realized something was wrong then and took action.

I found that paint fumes are indeed very toxic to fish. Good thing I'm not a fish or I would have been dead long ago. 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm#Paint Fumes
This is a similar case where the person noticed cloudy water from paint fumes - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830839



Anyone had any similar experience to this? This is extremely disheartening because these were very special angels to me and I just got them less than 2 weeks ago.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

My Grandmother killed all her Silver Dollars while painting... Over 35 years ago.


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

Well it's good to know I'm not the only paint fume fish killer. Whenever I buy expensive fish they die. Last time was 12 German rams - this time beautiful angelfish. Come to think of it maybe I killed some of the rams the same way last winter when I was stripping paint. I had a bunch die on me for no apparent reason so maybe it was paint fumes. Three angels are now swimming around - I hope I can manage to save them! At least I have my sole harlequin and two strong cardinals left. They are the survival of the fittest for sure because they were each a school of 15 or more at one time. I think this means I stick to cheap fish that I don't become attached to.


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

I looked back at my old threads and found my dead fish story from back in March - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/105052-thick-scum-dead-fish.html

This corresponded with the same time I was stripping paint, staining, and finishing woodwork at that time as well. I noticed I had bad scum that time too. Why would paint fumes cause scum?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

too bad you had to find it the hard way.. It's pretty well known cause of death.

The chemicals probably killed everything in the tank including the microbes.... Dead microbes will leave a protein slick on the top.


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> too bad you had to find it the hard way.. It's pretty well known cause of death.
> 
> The chemicals probably killed everything in the tank including the microbes.... Dead microbes will leave a protein slick on the top.


So my bio filter is probably fried....and I can look forward to another bacteria bloom. I started with the paint stripping and staining a few weeks ago which corresponded with a lot of scum then and bacteria bloom. Yesterday I did it again after week long break and here I am again.


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

As for anyone who wonders how paint fumes can affect their fish take these precautions! 

At the least - cover the tank with plastic and tape all edges in tight while painting and after painting several hours until fumes are gone. This may take much longer for oil paint. I assume the same is for oil stains as that is what I was using as well. Obviously open all windows and vent well. 

Use low fume paint whenever possible. Avoid Oil-based whenever possible.

It would also be very wise to add charcoal to the filter to absorb any toxins once they get in the water. 

If anyone wants to share some more advice feel free! I was not aware of this issue and I have been keeping fish for 15 years. Never once have I seen anything about paint fumes and fish.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

I was cutting plywood in my living room once and never thought about covering my open top tank. The saw threw so much dust in the air the surface of the water looked like corn bread mix. This was just stupidity on my part. (Was raining out and didn't want to cut it on my balcony.) It was not pressure treated.

Nothing died, but I was a bit concerned as to whether the glue between the layers was toxic. I got 99% with a net, but naturally I couldn't get every last particle, and the glue probably would dissolve anyway.


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## Sluggo (Nov 6, 2010)

Whenever I shampoo my carpets or anything like that, I cover the tank with a few layers of wet sheets and towels, and shut off all the filters and powerheads. I had to spray for fleas last summer and never lost a fish this way.


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

If a product says to use in a well ventilated area expect it to kill if your tank is exposed for any length of time. I wouldn't do anything like that w/o all windows open.


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

NJAquaBarren said:


> If a product says to use in a well ventilated area expect it to kill if your tank is exposed for any length of time. I wouldn't do anything like that w/o all windows open.


I didn't have any windows open - stupid me - it was 10 degrees outside.


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

My three surviving angels are swimming or still always at an angle. Like 15 degrees off. Is this normal? I thought it might be from the high flow in my tank, but they still do it after turning off the pump.


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## AquaNorth (Jan 27, 2010)

Ventilation will help, also you can find waterbased low or 0 voc products. But if your stripping, staining,varnishing woodwork oilbased products are superior. It would be better to do such projects in the summer months. Good luck.


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## Cuchulainn (Nov 2, 2010)

helgymatt said:


> My three surviving angels are swimming or still always at an angle. Like 15 degrees off. Is this normal? I thought it might be from the high flow in my tank, but they still do it after turning off the pump.


Probably not if they don't right themselves after the pump is off. Keep up on large volume water changes 50%, and try and get some good seeded media


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

AquaNorth said:


> Ventilation will help, also you can find waterbased low or 0 voc products. But if your stripping, staining,varnishing woodwork oilbased products are superior. It would be better to do such projects in the summer months. Good luck.


I'm considering switching to water-based stains. Several have told me they are beginning to be equally superior to oil. Natural Finish seems tso have some good products. Regardless I'll be planning to wait to do finishing work till the weather warms and I can open all windows. 

I'm using Shellac for the finish coat - Should I assume the alcohol used for shellac is harmful to fish as well? Here is a quote i found on a site: 

"-shellac is non-toxic for use on children's' furniture and for use around food. The fumes during application, being alcohol, are also non-toxic although good ventilation is recommended."

However, here is a reefer who had bad experience with Shellac so I'm considering alcohol vapor toxic as well. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/b-i-n-primer-warning-43487.html


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