# Surface Agitation



## radioman (Oct 29, 2007)

I have an HOB and just use the surface agitation from that (ripples). I left my filter off once and my co2 on. Thankfully I didn't have any fatalities but I came close. Any kind of surface agitation is going to cause a loss in co2 but you have to find the right amount to keep your co2 up and your oxygen up. So maybe if you have surface agitation turn your co2 up, which would seem to be countering the oxygen,but having one does not get rid of the other (as far as I know). What I have read is that any small amount of surface agitation creates an adequate supply of oxygen. I know there is more to this but that is my simplified version of what little I know. Someone else should chime in and correct any mistakes I made.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Tank Filtration & Aeration*

Hello Lug...

I'm an "old school" water keeper, but even I don't use airstones anymore. They do little to get oxygen into the tank. The bubblers make the water look nice and move it a little and that's somewhat beneficial, but your power filter is the real oxygen producer, because it provides a lot more water movement. So, you need a powerfilter with a gph rating at least 6 times the volume of your tank and service it weekly.

Your tank will get plenty of CO2 if you change 50 percent of the tank's water volume every week and feed your fish a balanced diet.

Water keeping is really pretty simple, unless you get too creative and stray from the basics.

B


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I use a 28 inch bubble wand that sits on my substrate in the back of my tank and after my lights go out the air pump kicks on, it's a great way to get added air in the water along with filters that are large enough to house a the volume of nitrifying bacteria that your tank requires along with good flow. My air pump cuts off one hour before my lights come on in the morning, at the same time my CO2 kicks on and starts to build gas in the water so when the lights come on the plants are ready to grow.

I don't know of any videos but any way you can add oxygen to the water is good, air stones, wet dry filters, etc., and if you have to turn up the CO2 a little that's ok. I do also use powerheads to get good flow in my tank and one points toward the surface 24/7 making a nice little ripple this also help.

If you add a air stone, wand, stick, to run all night you should be able to see the difference in the water quality, good luck.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

I don't use air stone at all at night with CO2 off. I use a HOB filter, Marineland Emperor 400. Just through my observations, I can see the downward movement of the water from the filter to the tank creates its own splash. It seems to trap some bubbles and continuously breaking them into smaller ones. Like a waterfall. Because of this, I see tiny bubbles flowing in the tank. I assume those bubbles contain oxygen. There isn't any reasons for me to use an air stone at night. The water movement itself with the water surface is enough to oxygenate the tank at night. 

Of course, I also check the fish at night to see if they are grasping for air or staying at the surface. They all look fine. I also modified the water outlet by adding a piece of plastic in front of it. I cut it with couple of slots. This way, I can redirect the water from the filter to flow downward instead of to the front of the tank. I only get ripples now. Majority of the water movement is flowing down instead.


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## Lugnut (Aug 12, 2010)

How does changing your water help Co2?


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Tank Filtration & Aeration*

Hello again Lug...

City/Municipal water is rich in carbon dioxide along with many trace elements. Excellent for your aquarium plants and fish. By changing large amounts of tank water frequently, you keep a lot of healthy minerals in the water.

That's why the more water you change and the more often you change it, the healthier your plants and fish will be.

B


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

BBradbury said:


> Hello again Lug...
> 
> City/Municipal water is rich in carbon dioxide along with many trace elements. Excellent for your aquarium plants and fish. By changing large amounts of tank water frequently, you keep a lot of healthy minerals in the water.
> 
> ...


That's kinda a broad statement, in a low tech tank weekly water changes can lead to problems when plants have a supply of CO2 for a day or two and then nothing for the rest of the week, this on/off approach can lead to algae problems, with high tech tanks and a constant flow of CO2 the weekly water change makes little difference in this area but is quite good for reseting the water for fertilizing.

Ripples in the waters surface break the surface tension and any movement at all shloud help gas exchange, but you would have to have a fairly extreme movement before having any problems at worst you'll need to turn up the CO2 a little. I hear it's best not to break the surface tention with a flow of water etc. or like a waterfall, but I have seen beautiful tanks with dual Eheim 2262 canister returns splashing into the water from a couple of inches above, so IMO either way should be good.

Read here: or here and here

It's a little off the OP but good to know, it really doesn't matter how you get oxygen in the water as long as you do and you can go to any extreme you want without any problems.


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## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

I would never use an airstone unless I gassed my fish. The ripple is a good rule of thumb to aerate the water without an excessive loss of CO2. The loss of CO2 is inevitable even in stagnant water; the cost of CO2 refills may cost some money, however, plants require it for photosynthesis.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Crispino Ramos said:


> I would never use an airstone unless I gassed my fish. The ripple is a good rule of thumb to aerate the water without an excessive loss of CO2. The loss of CO2 is inevitable even in stagnant water; the cost of CO2 refills may cost some money, however, plants require it for photosynthesis.



are you saying not to use air stone during lights are off? or don't use it while co2 is on, which would make more sense because that would gas out the co2. 

i use airstone when light turns off, and spray bar during the day when co2 is on. haven't really seen any of my ram looking for o2 on the surface and my drop checker is always almost lime green to yellow.


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## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

happi said:


> are you saying not to use air stone during lights are off? or don't use it while co2 is on, which would make more sense because that would gas out the co2.
> 
> i use airstone when light turns off, and spray bar during the day when co2 is on. haven't really seen any of my ram looking for o2 on the surface and my drop checker is always almost lime green to yellow.


I don't use airstone and my fish (tetras, garra, chain loaches, rasboras) don't gasp. The tanks have strong water flow; I tend to over filter. I guess the use of airstone at night can cause fluctuation of CO2 level and may cause plant and algae problems.

I'm writing what I have observed from my routine aquarium plant/fish keeping. What works for my tank may not work for somebody else's tank.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Crispino Ramos said:


> I don't use airstone and my fish (tetras, garra, chain loaches, rasboras) don't gasp. The tanks have strong water flow; I tend to over filter. I guess the use of airstone at night can cause fluctuation of CO2 level and may cause plant and algae problems.
> 
> I'm writing what I have observed from my routine aquarium plant/fish keeping. What works for my tank may not work for somebody else's tank.



in that case can you tell us what kind of algae will take place, because you made me wonder about it. it might solve diatom algae problem am having, if it has to do with using the air stone.


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## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

happi said:


> in that case can you tell us what kind of algae will take place, because you made me wonder about it. it might solve diatom algae problem am having, if it has to do with using the air stone.


 
Excellent question but I'm not in any position to answer your question. The best person to ask this question is Tom Barr aka plantbrain. Send him a PM. Thank you. :wink:


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Crispino Ramos said:


> Excellent question but I'm not in any position to answer your question. The best person to ask this question is Tom Barr aka plantbrain. Send him a PM. Thank you. :wink:


just sent him a PM and forward this thread to him also, hopefully he respond here.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

happi said:


> in that case can you tell us what kind of algae will take place, because you made me wonder about it. it might solve diatom algae problem am having, if it has to do with using the air stone.


Is your tank low or high tech, how often are you doing water changes, and how old is the set up, oh do you live on a coast line?

I don't think the airstone will come into play. I like using one for a number of reasons, oxygen in the water, upward movement of the bubble create a upward flow in the tank, and the fish love it, some of them sleep in the bubble flow & some play. If you can hide it use it, but don't say no because you have a phobia of the little chest of pirate treasure that opens as the lid fills with air.

Dang, now I want one, off to my LFS!!!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Often with larger tanks, the air stones make the tank murky and lifts up and suspends detritus. 

Even aggressive CO2 misting can cause this.

I am with Crispino on this one.
Good ripple, but not enough to break the surface.

I'm one of the few folks that has added pure O2...and also measured O2 with different sets up and filtration in planted tanks.

I like wet/drys, good ripple, lots of flow etc.

I've never been fond of night time airstones.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

150EH said:


> That's kinda a broad statement, in a low tech tank weekly water changes can lead to problems when plants have a supply of CO2 for a day or two and then nothing for the rest of the week, this on/off approach can lead to algae problems, with high tech tanks and a constant flow of CO2 the weekly water change makes little difference in this area but is quite good for reseting the water for fertilizing.
> 
> Ripples in the waters surface break the surface tension and any movement at all shloud help gas exchange, but you would have to have a fairly extreme movement before having any problems at worst you'll need to turn up the CO2 a little. I hear it's best not to break the surface tention with a flow of water etc. or like a waterfall, but I have seen beautiful tanks with dual Eheim 2262 canister returns splashing into the water from a couple of inches above, so IMO either way should be good.
> 
> ...


Hello 150...

I have several, large, low tech tanks and change out half the water weekly. Between the large water changes and a substantial number of fish, the carbon dioxide stays level. An HOB filter up to 10 times the volume of your tank will alone, keep the water moving and well oxygenated, although one 6 times is plenty as long as you change out the water weekly.

If you do the 50 percent water changes every week, plant the tank well and maintain your filter equipment, algae won't become a problem.

B


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## WhiteRaven (Apr 12, 2016)

I have an Eheim canister filter. I have read of a lot of people feeding their CO2 into the filter intake as long as it is not too much that it makes the motor rattle causing damage. I like the idea of getting all of the bubbles dissolved between the impeler and the filter media instead a bubble cloud of CO2 swirling around the tank. However, the filter is where the bio filter lives (or one of the main places) which does it's job better with oxygen. So wouldn't it be better to feed a bubbler line, since I don't have pure O2 to feed, into the filter instead? I'd need to use a valve to reduce the air flow to what the filter could handle.


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