# sag vs val



## newshound (May 9, 2005)

I once read that planting both Vallisneria and Sagittaria in the same tank is asking for trouble. They release toxins that inhibit the other.
Is this true? Do any other aquatic plants do this. I know that devil weed (pot) releases toxins into the soil via its roots but that is a land plant.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I don't think there is any hard data for allelopathy in aquariums. I always heard that about Vallis and Crypts, but I don't have a problem growing both in the same tank. I have Vallis and Sags in one tank and the Sags are kinda stagnant and the Vallis try to take over the whole tank every week, but I wouldn't blame allelopathy for this. Sags grow slower than Vallis, to start with...


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I've had Sag's and Val's do well in the same tank. Sag's can deal with softer water than most Val's. I have dwarf Sag and Val nana in one tank and the Sag is winning the speed battle at the moment.


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## kenneth_kpe (Jan 25, 2005)

i have heard of this too and i had a discussion with a planted tank expert in the other forums  specifically he recalled somewhere that dwarf sags have allelopathic effects on corkscrew vals, i have both in my tank from day one and the cork vals lost the battle ( the vals where placed as background and the sags foreground) the vals are doing worst then ever, (im down to the last 2 plants from around 15) and the sags are still spreading like crazy covering the entire front of the tank  

i wanted to make an experiment and place sags and vals together in a semi controlled environment but i dont have time to do so  i wanted to know if it was the sags causing the vals to die out.


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## timr (Mar 23, 2005)

I have dwarf sags growing nuts in my tank and then.....I few months ago i had corkscrew val pop up from no where, and it's going nuts now too, as well as itailian and jungle. 

But this thing about vals and crypts has got my attention because as soon as my crypts get some good growth they melt again.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

I had them right mixed together in the same location in the same tank. Both grew like weeds. The "dwarf" sag tried to outgrow the height of my 100gallon tank, so did the crypt wendtii 'red'.


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

I have two vals (jungle and spiral) and two sags (subuletta and chilensis) and they are all trying to take over the tank! And the crypts are going wild (the spiralis in particular, the smaller ones are just doing their thing) with only the occasional melt. Most often the melt follows a pruning back of jungle val or the lily that sends up leaves.

I also have the mythic E diversifolia that is said to be allelopathic too...


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## tessoci (Dec 9, 2004)

Our Italian vals have taken over the tank. They've grown up and over and around and shade everything underneath. The things are like 4 feet long and highly invasive! They don't even bother to root themselves in the substrate anymore --just hover in mid-water and send out new runners. We've taken to grabbing handfuls and lopping them off at the waterline with scissors. Makes them mighty unattractive! :eek5: 

I'm planning to uproot and remove the whole lot, as soon as my order of C. balansae comes in to replace them. (Thanks for the suggestion, Mike!  )

I do also have dwarf sag, which is just barely getting by, but I'm not sure if it's a result of any val toxins or simply having the light choked off by the rampant weeds!

--Rebecca


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