# Wasserpests 36gal Corner Tank



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

A new tank is born...










I had already considered for a while to replace my scratched 43 gal quarantine/experimental tank in the garage, and I couldn't refuse [URL="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23946]Petsmarts offer[/URL] for this 36 corner/bow front with stand. Thanks to Sam for bringing that to all our attention!

Painted it with a mahogany stain to make it fit into its surroundings, glued a little plastic thing in the back as an equipment corner, and stripped the light strip which will be outfitted with 2 T5 bulbs.

But, parts are still in the mail... So let's first do some substrate...


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Substrate...*

First, a big blob of soaked peatmoss. I know, you're supposed to just do a light dusting of the bottom glass. Well I went for about 1/2 inch of peat.










I want to do things a little different than in my other tanks, with more focus on substrate fertilization, and less water column dosing. So, in go a bunch of Jobes Ferns and Palms. I pushed them all the way down into the peatmoss.










Next, about 1 inch of a product (not by ADA) called "Special Kitty". It is used for many noble purposes, but its nutritious value and CEC for growing plants is excellent, and this layer costs me about 95 cents. I didn't wash it, just a quick flush in a bucket to get rid of the finest dust. This gives us about 1.5" substrate height.










Jobes? Kitty litter? I must be out of my mind. So let's continue... There was still a bag of price-matched Flourite. I took about 15% of it for a good cleaning, the rest went as the next layer, out of the bag, totally unwashed. I think when you rinse and rinse and rinse Flourite much of the good stuff is rinsed off. Okay now we are at about 2.5" height.










For biological activation, step one, I cleaned out one of my XP3's (really needed it) which left me with two cups of dark smelly sludge. Distributed that evenly over the flourite, then, for biological activation, step two, topped it with used flourite from my soon to be gone garage tank. Finally, added some thoroughly washed flourite on top of all. This gives us about 3" of substrate height, however, with the peatmoss and further settling it will go down to about 2.5".

Before going any further, I sucked as much water out of the tank as I could. This is a pretty good way to avoid a duststorm later when planting, as this moves the smaller particles further down.










With me so far?  Now the fun begins... filling up the tank.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Planting...*

Like I said, the fun part... Filled the tank VERY VERY slowly over the course of maybe 3 hours, wasn't in a rush. This prevents the famous red flourite cloud. While the water was dripping, I started planting...










Following good advise, I planted a lot of fast growing weeds. At this point there isn't much thought put into aquascaping, that will be done much later. There are little dust devils appearing while pushing the plants into the substrate, but without any water movement, things settle quickly.










And, for now, the result:










Once I get the lights, I will update this!


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

That is gonna be one potent substrate with all them jobes in there ! I usually use 1/3 of a stick in as many spots and then you add in that layer of peat... WOW is all I can say ! LOL


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## will5 (Sep 30, 2005)

*Hi*

Caught my attention **subscribe** :thumbsup: Quick question where can i pick up those Jobes Ferns and Palms at ( ace,ture value ?) or do i have to order them on line?. Thanks


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

This 24" deep corner tank gives you a lot of room to do a foreground, and filling up the back corner with taller plants will make it look maybe a tad symmetrical, but we shall see.

Overall I am looking (again) for tough plants that can survive my hard water and not-so-high light levels. Planned for the foreground Sagittaria and Pearlweed, then some Wisteria, and then gradually going up to java moss, and in the back taller crypts and stemplants. Kinda wild/natural.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

will5 said:


> Caught my attention **subscribe** :thumbsup: Quick question where can i pick up those Jobes Ferns and Palms at ( ace,ture value ?) or do i have to order them on line?. Thanks


Over here, they sell them at OSH (Orchard Supply and Hardware).

BTW... I am not a proponent of Jobes and weird substrates for YOUR tank. If you are working on that large display tank for your living room, you might want to go with more proven options.


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## SunkShip (Oct 29, 2004)

Wow looks great! What fish are you planning to put in there?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks Ship, although I disagree!! Give me a few weeks to make it look great. 

The tank I am taking down houses a pair of African Butterfly fish, so these will be the new inhabitants. 

That leaves me with the middle and bottom areas... For the middle, I thought of a bunch of White Clouds. They are cheap, colorful, breed like rabbits and are fairly interesting to watch in a school. Also, they leave most of the Cherry shrimps alone. Some of them tend to end up in ole Butterfly's big mouth... but that's nature, I guess.

I could see some other fish in the middle as well... maybe black or red Phantom Tetras (haven't had tetras for a while). I'd love to try some Threadfin Rainbows, but they are too expensive for that Butterfly snacking. Red Pencilfish are another favorite of mine, but again, I need something that doesn't go up to the surface much. :fish1: 

For the bottom... I am not sure. I don't think Flourite is the best floor cover for Cories... Maybe a pair of Kribs? But then, that would be the end of my Cherries... hmmm.

In any case, I won't buy any new fish for a long time... planning on a month vacation in Summer, so I don't really want to stock my tanks until after that.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

This one will be worth keeping an eye on . Blazing new trails I see, wasser roud: . Good luck!


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## matthewburk (Sep 22, 2005)

This is interesting. What purpose does the peat serve? I always hear about people putting down a thin layer of peat, but don't know why the do it.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

matthewburk said:


> This is interesting. What purpose does the peat serve? I always hear about people putting down a thin layer of peat, but don't know why the do it.


it helps soften hard water mostly. in a post above he says he's looing for plants that will tolerate hard water and lower light. the peat should hopefully act as a buffer to help soften the water.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

That's a great start...what happens if you "accidentally" uproot a fert stick? I really like the way you set up the fluorite with the screen to drain the muck and refill. I may have to do that when I move...again.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

matthewburk said:


> This is interesting. What purpose does the peat serve? I always hear about people putting down a thin layer of peat, but don't know why the do it.


There are many ways to do a substrate... I add the peat not to soften the water, but to 

- reduce the pH in the root area, which should lead to better nutrient availability
- add some organic component to the bottom layer, some ppl use potting soil, but I prefer peat

IF this doesn't work out, the peat is rather simple to remove. Just do a deep vaccuuming, and out it goes. Of course that will mix up my Flourite with the Special Kitty, which would tone down the red of the Flourite a bit.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Georgiadawgger said:


> That's a great start...what happens if you "accidentally" uproot a fert stick?


Well, I know they are down there, so I will try not to. Also, over the months, they should pretty much dissolve, and I hope the nutrients are sucked up by my high CEC substrates. That's really the point of them sticks... an initial starter charge for the lower substrate layers. Peat doesn't contain any nutrients.

They usually become "unearthed" when you pull out large rootbound plants. When it is time for that, I might just pull the plant up a little, then with some scissors cut the roots in the substrate and leave them there.

Another simple way to avoid algae surprises due to uprooting the sticks: When you pull out a plant, turn off filter/powerheads, have a bucket and the vaccuum ready. When the plant is almost out of the substrate, start to vaccuum around the root area, which will remove any white fertilizer flakes.

Many ways... plus, like I said, after a while they will be exhausted anyway.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Georgiadawgger said:


> That's a great start...what happens if you "accidentally" uproot a fert stick?


I've pulled out a number of Jobes Fern and Palm sticks when uprooting Crypts in my 125g tank. For the most part nothing happens except for releasing the clay binder material into the water. If it's a big chunk I'll push it back into the substrate, but it's never caused any type of algae bloom for me.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Georgiadawgger said:


> I really like the way you set up the fluorite with the screen to drain the muck and refill. I may have to do that when I move...again.


Actually, I used the screen to fill the area close to the plastic divider with larger grain pea gravel. Keeping the pump area clean, and making it easier to remove any plants that might venture into this area. Don't want roots growing into the powerhead. 

The muck draining is easy if you leave some space without substrate in front, and suck as much water out before adding the final (rinsed) layer. This does indeed help a lot to avoid initial murkyness when filling the tank.


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

Those corner tanks seem really nice and I can't wait to see how it turns out. Make sure to update often


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

I want to set up my petsmart 16 bow with the Wasserpest modified Mattenfilter from a few posts ago. Looks like you are using a different plastic difider now for the pump corner. Care to elaborate?


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## Fosty (Oct 17, 2003)

That substrate is begging for crypts. I can't wait to see how this tank turns out. I'm sure it'll be great! :thumbsup:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

BlueRam said:


> I want to set up my petsmart 16 bow with the Wasserpest modified Mattenfilter from a few posts ago. Looks like you are using a different plastic difider now for the pump corner. Care to elaborate?


Sure! As you see in the first picture, I siliconed a 3" high plastic "divider" into the back corner. This will be the equipment corner, housing a powerhead with sponge on its inlet for filtration and water movement, and the heater and CO2 (I'll use a bubble ladder). In some ways, this is simpler than the "Mattenfilter". I don't have to worry about water seeping through on the sides, and returning the water from the filter compartment. The powerhead will just suck water through the sponge and spit it out pointed towards the front.

In a rectangular tank, I would have preferred the "Mattenfilter". But as it is, tall plants will cover the equipment, and a sponge stuck to a powerhead will be all for now.

The plastic mesh was only used when I added the substrate... a layer of pea gravel around the plastic divider, then changing over to the plant substrate. Just to keep the finer substrate out of the equipment corner, away from the powerhead. The powerhead is actually sitting on a piece of sponge.

However, I want to turn the plastic mesh into a move-able moss/fern wall, that will cover the pipes and cables in the corner. Stay tuned!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

This is a cool journal start! I've never seen or heard of a Mattenfilter. Do you have a hose coming off the power head or what?
Its good to know that some can use jobes safely. I thought they were pretty much too treacherous. I am looking to find a more economical way to fertilize crypts and such. You have a great story building here.


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

Betowess

Link to Mattenfilter: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23611&highlight=Mattenfilter

So it does the filtration, is not seen, hides the heater, and has provisions for injecting CO2. So basically a great solution for small tanks. I am almost certaint that I will rig my 16 bow to include one.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

OK, just saw that post. That is a great idea for a budget tank. Thanks for the link Blueram. Nice work Wasserpest!


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

<subscribing!>
Wow, that is an en*rich*ed substrate! I've used similar substrate recipes in the past and while it might make for a little more of a frustrating 'teething' phase, it also makes for a very easy, low-maintenence tank in the long run when everything settles in.
The stain looks awesome, man!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Buyers remorse...*

Well... I DID feel like a lowly individual, stealing that stand from starving petSMART employees. After all, it's Christmas, and their little ones are waiting for gifts too. :icon_redf 

But when I turned around, I saw that XP3 for almost $200 in the shelf. That made me feel a little better. After all, there seem to be a few overpriced items for sale here!

I promised to myself that I will buy at least $60 of fish that costs the Smarts probably what, around $10?

Hope all had a Merry Christmas!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Lighting...*

So let's look at the lighting situation here. The tank has a 24" wide glass across the top, and it comes with a 2 bulb 24" AGA fixture:










There is a couple of good things, and a couple of bad ones. Good: The fixture has electronic ballasts, and the bulbs have a plant-friendly spectrum (although the pink hue won't please all humans). Bad: It's called a 24" fixture, but the bulbs are only 18", as you see there are large unlit spaces on each side of the fixture. Also, 15W bulbs are not the brightest beasts when it comes to lighting a tank with a 20" depth. The energy efficient ballasts drive them to about 12W only, which keeps them cool, but again, not good for light hungry ground cover.










Looking for the most efficient lighting solution, after discarding NO T5's (not available) I decided on HO T5's. The 2 footers, each 24W, are only about 22" long, and fit just so into the fixture.










I had a cheap Advance ballast laying around, but after reading some interesting T5 facts it seemed like a ballast spec'd for T8's wouldn't be right for T5's. I remembered that someone here on the board had used ballasts from spiral compacts, and gave it a shot. Surprise!!! The ballast of a $1 23W LightWiz bulb lit up my 2ft T5 bulbs! Drawing only 20W, the bulbs are a little underdriven, but still very bright.










So I connected all the wires, zip-tied things into the hood, and finally placed bulbs and reflectors in position. Taking off the protective plastic from new reflectors was unwrapping Christmas gifts at it's best!










Comparison shot of the bulbs... the original AGA T8's, a pinkish T5 Planta, and a nice white T5 Ocean White 10000K which looks blue/green in the photo but very crisp white in reality.










Now the tank looks much better, hope that plants think the same way. 40W is still pretty pathetic, but with the new reflectors a big step up from the original 25W without reflectors.

I am going to use the original light and modify it and add it to the tank for more light in the back... stay tuned.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Great play-by-play, Wasser! Keep it coming roud:.


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## oceanaqua (Nov 24, 2005)

I did the same substrate plan Wasserpest, I had very nice results. I had 1 inch of peat, jobes sticks, and a addition of Osmoscote. Top off with Soilmaster.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Happy Holidays to ya Wass-man  

Lighting that tank is getting interesting I see. I like that second set of lights you just wired and they should definately help you out. Thats a tough shape and sized tank to light up. 
I tell ya, someone could make a bundle of money if they designed a nice , "affordable" pendant style lamp in the 100W range with bulbs that are worth a crap... LOL

I would be all over them !

Lookin good bro... roud:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

unirdna said:


> Great play-by-play, Wasser! Keep it coming roud:.


You bet... if someone else can take ideas from this setup, or can compare and decide I am nuts... makes it all worth it.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

oceanaqua said:


> I did the same substrate plan Wasserpest, I had very nice results. I had 1 inch of peat, jobes sticks, and a addition of Osmoscote. Top off with Soilmaster.


Soilmaster seems to be great stuff. If I hadn't still had a bit of Special Kitty and Flourite I would have tried to get my hands on a few pounds of SM.
I wasn't brave enough for Osmocote though... But if you get the right composition, why not. Just want to stay away from too much Urea.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Buck said:


> Thats a tough shape and sized tank to light up.
> I tell ya, someone could make a bundle of money if they designed a nice , "affordable" pendant style lamp in the 100W range with bulbs that are worth a crap... LOL
> 
> I would be all over them !


A pendant would be a nice solution, a little HQI, even as low as 70W, but that usually means open top, evaporation, light spilling all over the room. 

I don't mind spending a little more upfront, if I get the most out of it in the long run. For ex, the Icecap reflector costs about $26 for a 4 footer (I cut it in half). But the reflectivity is better than the Sunlight Tek reflectors, on par with AHS material. I would have gone with AHS if I had more room to work with. But for its compact size, the Icecap does a good job reflecting T5's.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

I got this tank last week with the PetSmart deal after seeing GulfCoastAquarian's post. I'm following your thread and GulfCoastAquarian's to bounce off some ideas.

Your tank is coming out very nice.

I'm looking to upgrade my lights also. I was looking at AHS and Sunlight Tek kit; but after reading your post about AHS, I'm a little concern about AHS fitting under the hood. I would like to have as much light as possible. What is the best option out there?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

ShortFin said:


> I was looking at AHS and Sunlight Tek kit; but after reading your post about AHS, I'm a little concern about AHS fitting under the hood.


The advantage of using the slim T5 reflectors is that you can fit two into the hood. AHS reflectors are much wider, and only one will fit into the canopy that came with the tank.



ShortFin said:


> I would like to have as much light as possible. What is the best option out there?


As much as possible? Are you serious? Hope you don't think that the more light, the better your tank. Define what is "best" for you. You can put a metal halide pendant over this tank and get crazy light levels, but to maintain that tank you would need a few years of experience and a load of money. More is often not better.

For a reasonable high light tank, I would suggest a 2x 55W PC solution. That would get more light into the tank, but also spin your electricity counter faster, and create much more heat. You would need to get another canopy (with fans) as well.

There are many choices, my goal was to get the most efficient lighting that still lets me maintain a lush planted tank.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

I'm stayin away from MH. That's a good point about the PC generating too much heat and needing a canopy with fans. I think I'll stick with T5's and work out a plant list.

Would the 24" Sunglight Tek Retrofit from Dr. foster fit?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9867&N=2004+2033+113030


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yes, with a little bit of cutting, squeezing and pushing that should fit into the hood. The ballast wouldn't fit in there, but you could attach it onto the back of the fixture, unless you want to add another fixture behind it to better light the back corner. The standoffs wouldn't fit either, but you don't really need those anyway.


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## co2 (Sep 13, 2004)

ShortFin said:


> I'm stayin away from MH. That's a good point about the PC generating too much heat and needing a canopy with fans. I think I'll stick with T5's and work out a plant list.
> 
> Would the 24" Sunglight Tek Retrofit from Dr. foster fit?
> 
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9867&N=2004+2033+113030



I think a 70w MH would be great on those tanks:

http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/mercha..._mh_retrofit&Category_Code=d9&Product_Count=3


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

Thanks for the MH suggestion. I don't want to hijack Wasser's thread. I'll start a new one in the lighting section.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

If you have the money and an open tank, MH lights are awesome.

Just came back from a few (8) days of ski-ing and doing nothing, and all tanks look pretty good. The corner tank had so much growth that I had to pull some of the fastest growers (Water Sprite and Sunset Hygro) because the entire surface was covered and the Butterflies wondered where to hang out.

Before I left I made a moss and fern wall to cover the back equipment corner. Now I need some more light in the back to actually see it. :icon_roll Stay tuned for lighting part II.

On my way back from the mountains I stopped by at my generous Petsmart looking for any other good deals  They have currently the one-buck-a-fish deal and I am actually thinking about getting a couple of blackskirt tetras. Still love the White Clouds, but a red fish over red Flourite is just not the most contrasting thing.

Also, they had two bags of Flourite marked as large gravel vaccuums for $8.45. I asked the cashier if they were mis-labeled, but she was sure they were not, so I took them... Always on the lookout for good deals.

The water in the tank is awesome clear, despite the unwashed Flourite and KL and some good current in the lower area. I had some initial fuzzy algae on water sprite roots (that were dangling in the water) which disappeared by now. 

One thing I noticed is a lot of poop sitting on the flourite, arranged in nice big heaps. This started very early, and I think there might be some worms or such in the peatmoss. I could vaccuum it all out, but maybe we're dealing with valuable nutrients here? I wish this would fall in between the flourite cracks... but it might be too much.

More pictures to follow shortly.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Sounds like a promising outlook Wass , I'll be looking for them pics ! Not too mention 8 days of skiing and no broken bones...LOL ! 

Sounds like a Win/Win vacation !


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

While the paint is drying on my second lighting fixture, allow me to show you a few updated photos. Keep in mind that I am not yet at the aquascaping phase...










You might notice the work-in-progress moss wall, as a reflection on the left back side. 

I like how the rock with java fern reflects on the left, making it seem bigger and "rounder". Depending on the viewing angle this corner tank sorta changes backgrounds, from reflecting to see-through.










And some more details, left above, right below.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Looks terrific Wasserpest. Hey, who makes those T5 Plantas? What is the temp. of those and do you know if they come in 4' lengths? I think I like the combo of the 10K and the Planta. Thanks,bob


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks Bob... Both T5's are made by AquaMedic (German I believe), available in 2, 3 and 4 feet, for example here. Color temperature specs are useless for these plant dedicated bulbs. First they seemed awfully pink, but in combination with a 10000K in front it looks very pleasing to my eyes. I wouldn't use them alone though, light green plants will look very ugly.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Cool, good to know as I'm due for some new T5s in the next six months and thats the route I may go. First I might use two of my existing Starcoats and one each of the Planta and 10000k. See how that looks... but if it looks the same, I'll put in a second pair of Planta/10K Aquamedics. I'm not sure, but I think Pjan might have used a Planta or two.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

In my experience the Starcoats turn into a dull yellow after a few months, I will stay away from them in future, even though they are cheap. Apropos cheap, these guys have some really cheap T5 HO bulbs, I might try those when I need more bulbs.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I just looked at the Foster and Smith link. $14.95 isn't much more than the $11.95 Starcoat @ Reefgeek. And Reefgeek's German Guiseman bulbs are into the $22 range, if memory serves me correctly... Maybe I'll just go totally the Planta and 10K route. I agree, the starcoats are a bit too yellow for my liking. And I really like the color of your tank. Thanks, bob


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

I'm loving it, Wasser! Looks like a lot of space. Could you tell me the name of this plant. Is it water sprite? After seeing it in your tank, I'm going to need some of this stuff for my 46g. If it is common water sprite, someone in my area must have it.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yep, there is a lot of 'scaping area in these corner tanks. 

You are absolutely right, this is the common Water Sprite. I have two kinds of it, one with thinner leaves, and another one with thicker, shorter leaves. 

Just letting it drift for now... Later I will rubber-sucker them to the back wall. They grow too fast for me if I plant them into the substrate.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Wasserpest said:


> Later I will rubber-sucker them to the back wall. They grow too fast for me if I plant them into the substrate.


Could you explain this further? My narrow-leaf sprite is growing like MAAAAD, it's pearling insanely every day and it's getting kinda annoying


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Sure... I found that they grow to big and fast for me when sitting with their roots in the substrate, and if I let them float, they take away too much light and I can't enjoy the beautiful shape of the leaves.

As a good compromise, I use a rubber sucker, like one of those used to keep heaters or powerheads in place, and stick it onto the back wall, about half tank height. Then I somehow anchor the plant into it, depending on the size just push it into the little plastic holder for the heater, or tie them to it.

Once they get too big, I usually have a bunch of floaters that I then use for replacement.


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

your tank looks great! keep us updated...


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## cprroy73 (Nov 10, 2004)

Great tank! How long has it been setup for? Have you had any algae problems on the substrate from the jobe sticks? Very nice nice so far.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks for the comments, I'll keep you updated on all the areas of this tank (light in progress, filtration coming, substrate already done...).

I started this tank on 12/18/05, so now it is a mature 3 weeks old!  No algae problems so far at all, I haven't even had to wipe down the glass (which is a weekly chore on my other two tanks).  

I hope someone with an empty tank and lots of enthusiasm for unterwater gardening can take some ideas from this thread. Makes it all worth it. roud:


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## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> I hope someone with an empty tank and lots of enthusiasm for unterwater gardening can take some ideas from this thread. Makes it all worth it. roud:


Well, consider it done. I just helped prettyhead set up her first tank and we used your substrate as a model. now we are considering lighting options. . .which is why I am reading this now.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

Wasserpest said:


> I hope someone with an empty tank and lots of enthusiasm for unterwater gardening can take some ideas from this thread. Makes it all worth it. roud:


I'm using your ideas if you don't mind. I got the Sunlight retrofit kit with the same bulbs as you. 

I'm thinking of putting Soilmaster in it, but the stores don't open on the weekend. Only open weekdays from 7am to 3pm. The store closest to my work route won't order it for me. I've read on APC that you can order online and they will ship it to the store. Another one will order for pick-up or deliver to my house with $5 - $10 extra for shipping. I just might go with Flourite or laterite top with sand.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Lookin' good, Wasser! It'll be great to see this tank from start to...well...not sure I wanna say 'finish'  .

Thanks for the frequent updates!
Brian.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

BSS said:


> Lookin' good, Wasser! It'll be great to see this tank from start to...well...not sure I wanna say 'finish'  .
> 
> Thanks for the frequent updates!
> Brian.


Thanks Brian, hopefully this tank will not be "finished" (torn down) for a long time. That's one nice thing about planted tanks, they are never finished, just (hopefully) slowly improving.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Dosing...*

As you might have read in the initial setup, I am using a slightly enriched substrate. I think I already see some positive results with some Crypts (not sure if it is Wendtii bronze or Lutea) which has grown nice fat dark colored and bullated leaves, different from my other tanks.

I tend to not do any watercolumn dosing for the first couple of weeks in new tanks (helps to keep algae explosions to a minimum), and then just go slowly as plants demand. This is very different from EI.

With the enriched substrate, I want a reduced macro dosing for the water column, maybe similar to what Amano does (not sure what he really does).

After 3 weeks of tank existence, some plants like Watersprite, Sagittaria and Wisteria turn really light green, almost white. Saturday I started adding some Flourish Iron, and the Wisteria greened up almost immediately! One day after adding the iron I could see the deeper green growth center, and by now the entire plants look good.

This is not plant mistreatment, but a good way to learn about the various deficiencies and how to prevent them. If you throw the whole mixture of micros and macros into your tank from the beginning you won't know what effects what, and if you get algae, it's difficult to say if it is a result of one or another of the fertilizers.

The Watersprite still looks very light green, since it is a floating plant in my tank I am pretty sure it is nitrate deficient. Rather than adding NO3 I will remove the Watersprite. :thumbsup:


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## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> I am using a slightly enriched substrate.


Slightly??? kind of an understatement dont you think:icon_mrgr


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Not really... I know of ppl that use mineralized (or not) potting soil!!! Now that is enriched. A few jobes on the very bottom of the 3" substrate layer is not that much. Peat moss doesn't add any fertilizer either. The KL might add a little bit, similar to loam or clay. The layer of Flourite keeps all that inside the substrate. Flourite isn't a "rich" substrate at all.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Great explaination on your minimalist macro dosing for a new tank, Wasserpest... to ID deficiencies. Good, practical explaination! Wish I had done that on my re-start. I think its better to underdose than overdose any day, though I'm sure I don't always pull that one off. And my crypts have certainly done well with some spendy Seachem roottabs right underneath. But I'm switching to Jobes pretty soon, once I have locked in the plant placement a bit.:thumbsup:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Lighting, Part II...*

As described in the initial lighting post, the tank comes with a 2ft fixture that houses 2 18" bulbs. I used the housing and crammed two T5's in there, which left me with the two bulbs and ballasts.

The corner tank is almost triangular, placing some 2ft bulbs in front and some 1.5 ft bulbs behind them seems like the most even lighting possible.

Got a piece of Redwood from HD (cheap, light, soft, and somewhat water resistant), cut it and stained it after doing some measuring and thinking:










While thinking, I saw that unused door mirror and started cutting it into pieces. One went as a cover for the frame I had built, and some strips added reflecting surfaces:










Mirrors have similar good reflecting properties as the highly prized/priced AHS specular aluminum reflectors, main differences: they are cheaper and heavier. White paint does a good job too, but I am fond of mirrors. First try to see how it looks:










Please note that due to space constraints, the fixture is slimmer and the bulbs are closer to each other than what I consider optimal. But, being a corner tank, I made use of all the available space. After connecting the cables, turn it on to see if it still works as expected:










It does!! Routing the cables more permanently, twist-tied, and a few blobs of glue, and we are almost done:










Finally, the moonlight! The underdriven (7V) CCFL bulb is still too bright for my taste, so I painted it blue. It draws only a little over a Watt, so I might leave it on permanently. See inverter on the lower left of the fixture:










The two fixtures draw 40+25=65W total, which is slightly under 2W/gal, but with selection of efficient lights and good reflectors the tank will be good for growing many sorts of plants.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

I'm having fun reading this thread, Wasser roud:. Look forward to seeing how your new lights (including that moon light) improve your tank.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Trying to keep it entertaining, while covering all the various areas...

Last night I tried out the moonlight. It ended up looking a tad dark. However, the surface was completely covered with Salvinia, Riccia and Ceratopteris. Making some space now, this will let a little more light in.

Also I noticed while underdriving CCFL's, when the high voltage wires touch each other, the light output is reduced, especially in the center of the bulb. I might just drill another hole and route one of the wires seperate from the other one. This should brighten up things a bit.

I don't want it to bright either, since I am planning to leave it on 24/7. Fishies still need their 10 hour beauty sleep!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*So how do we filter that thing...*

In our times of excellent $39.90 canister filters it is very difficult to find an excuse not to use one.

I think I pulled it off again...

What do we want from a filter? Me, I want mechanical filtration. Of course, water movement is a nice by-product. But a simple powerhead can do that as well.

Wait... powerhead? I got this powerhead from the retired tank... So basically, a canister filter sucks water out of the tank, through some pipes and hoses, into the housing, through some filter media, back up through more hoses and pipes and bends and elbows into the tank. Doesn't sound that efficient, does it?

A powerhead, on the other hand, sits inside the tank and just sucks water through the impeller. Most efficiently. Some will think -- but it looks ugly!!! With a little thought, however, it is invisible, much less disturbing than the inlet and outlet pipes of a canister filter.

So anyway, I have this Aquaclear 30 powerhead, and I put some sort of manifold on it to redirect the water that's coming out of it:










Now this manifold proved to be quite useless, since water has the urge to go straight. There is not much coming out of the sides there, but I'll leave it on for now since it doesn't bother me and it helps to stabilize the pump that's just sitting in a little triangle on the back bottom of the tank.

For mechanical filtration, the best thing for me is a big sponge. Sponges have an enormous capacity for dirt, they fill up very evenly, and besides provide a huge area for beneficial bacteria.

I got this sponge for about $5, and cut a quarter out of it which fits nicely into the corner of my corner tank:










The little input strainer thingy goes all the way into a hole that I cut into the sponge. And then goes on top of the powerhead. The strainer slides effortlessly onto the piece of vinyl hose that you see in the first picture. Doesn't have to be very tight since the powerhead sucks on it all the time. Easier to take it off that way...

After about 3 weeks running, I noticed today that there wasn't as much flow anymore. Took out the sponge for a good cleaning and boy, was there a lot of yucky yuck collected in it. 

I have an AC50 standing by in case that the 30 proves to be underpowered...

So going back to the canister filter... I could have mailordered the CSF4 for $55 delivered, but for now I love the simplicity, reliability and efficiency of my 6 Watt powerhead.


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## Not Mister Green (Feb 15, 2005)

*great to see each step of development...*

thanks for sharing Wasserpest.

BTW, mirror absorbs most light and has little to no reflective capacity.


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## Fosty (Oct 17, 2003)

Wasserpest said:


> I got this sponge for about $5, and cut a quarter out of it which fits nicely into the corner of my corner tank:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm thinking of trying something like that for a shrimp tank and have a few questions; Where did you get that sponge? What did you use to cut the sponge? And what is the lighter for?

I'm really liking the way the tank is coming. It's nice to see pictures of all the DIY stuff.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Mister Green said:


> BTW, mirror absorbs most light and has little to no reflective capacity.


Only if you paint it black!!!!!


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Second surface mirrors (where the reflective coating is on the back of a transparent material (glass/acrylic/etc...) lose a lot of light to internal diffraction within the glass/acrylic/etc. That's why telescope mirrors (and good reflectors) are always first surface mirrors.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Fosty said:


> I'm thinking of trying something like that for a shrimp tank and have a few questions; Where did you get that sponge? What did you use to cut the sponge? And what is the lighter for?
> 
> I'm really liking the way the tank is coming. It's nice to see pictures of all the DIY stuff.


Thanks Fosty. The lighter is to heat the... nevermind, I just put it there to give you an idea of the size of the sponge!  

I got the sponge from DrsFosterSmith.com, here is a link to the one I used: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produ...ll&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

To cut them, I used a sharp knife. Find one that doesn't have teeth, so that it doesn't rip the sponge. Basically, when you cut it, the sponge should not get stuck in the knife, if you know what I mean.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

bharada said:


> Second surface mirrors (where the reflective coating is on the back of a transparent material (glass/acrylic/etc...) lose a lot of light to internal diffraction within the glass/acrylic/etc. That's why telescope mirrors (and good reflectors) are always first surface mirrors.


How much is a lot? One percent? Two? Subjectively, there is no difference in reflectivity between a mirror and a specular aluminum reflector. I am sure there is some light lost in passing through the very thin glass, but it is not much. Saying that a mirror absorbs most light is waaaayyy off. Really.

The real issue is reflection versus diffusion. A white glossy paint is a better diffuser than a mirror, and in the end, whether you use white paint or mirrors attached in optimized angles, won't make all that much difference.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> How much is a lot? One percent? Two? Subjectively, there is no difference in reflectivity between a mirror and a specular aluminum reflector. I am sure there is some light lost in passing through the very thin glass, but it is not much. Saying that a mirror absorbs most light is waaaayyy off. Really.
> 
> The real issue is reflection versus diffusion. A white glossy paint is a better diffuser than a mirror, and in the end, whether you use white paint or mirrors attached in optimized angles, won't make all that much difference.


From a practical standpoint you're probably right, since any and all light is useful for our purposes. My comments were made based on what Ive read for optical application where secondary reflections and such are bad.

That said, I still wouldn't be surprised if an AHS polished reflector was 25% better than a standard piece of mirrored glass.


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## Prettyhead (Feb 7, 2005)

*Nice tank!*

Hey Wasserpest-

I've been following your tank since you set it up. I got the same Petsmart deal and am just getting mine going. 

Out of curiosity, are there fish in there?? Can't see any in your pics. :fish:


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Now this manifold proved to be quite useless, since water has the urge to go straight.


:hihi: I saw that coming the moment I looked at the photo. Take a 2 inch piece of PVC, cap it, and drill a 1/4" hole through the end of the cap, and 3/8" holes out the sides.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Prettyhead said:


> Hey Wasserpest-
> 
> I've been following your tank since you set it up. I got the same Petsmart deal and am just getting mine going.
> 
> Out of curiosity, are there fish in there?? Can't see any in your pics. :fish:


PH - stay tuned, I will talk about the fauna this coming weekend. Got some pics snap'd, just need to upload them.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

What kind of paint did you use on the CCFL moonlight?

This is shaping up to be a very nice tank! I love that you're experimenting and trying non-standard techniques.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I just used blue wall paint, I think it's latex based? Not sure, I can check it and let you know. I painted it and then "sponged" it to get a spotty texture.

Since I installed the romantic moonlight, most of the Cherry girls got pregnant... Hmmm... coincidence? :fish1:


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Thanks Fosty. The lighter is to heat the... nevermind,


ROFLOL! :biggrin: You cracked me up.


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## Not Mister Green (Feb 15, 2005)

*regarding the use of mirrors as a reflector....*

would you believe "Professor Hydro"?  lol

"Reflecting light back towards your plants is always a good idea, however, using mirror is not the best method of doing this. Mirrors are not actually all that reflective, I have heard that mirrors are only about 80% to 85% reflective, also mirrors do not defuse light which can cause "hotspots". Flat white paint is actually more reflective than mirror and it defuses the light very well."

from: http://www.simplyhydro.com/prev.htm

that said, best of luck with your project Wasserpest, and if it works for you, go for it!  Although, in general, using mirrors as a light reflector for plants is a bad idea, IMO.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Which leaves me pondering... why do ppl buy reflectors from AHS? Following your logic, they would be better off painting them white!

For me, going from say a white raingutter to mirrors was a big difference. Maybe more so because of the shape.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

That's because mirror is being used as a generic term. Specifically, the mirrors that are poor (relatively) reflectors are second surface mirrors—where the reflective surface is applied to the back of a clear material. This includes the typical glass bathroom mirror. Light entering this type of mirror has to first pass through glass where a portion of it is reflected, which is not a bad thing in our application.

Once in the glass a portion of the light gets absorbed and refracted away from the reflective surface (why you see light bleeding out the edge of a lit pane of glass). Finally, once the light hits the reflective surface it must again pass through the glass on its way out where again it is subject to refraction and internal restrike. I've read papers stating that a second surface mirror will max out at being 85% efficient.

With a first surface mirror (like polished aluminum) the light doesn't face these obstacles. In this case the reflectivity is determined by the material (silver being the preferred metal) used on the reflective surface.

The downside of first surface mirrors is that the reflective coating is subject to the elements and will oxidize, reducing its reflectivity. This is where aluminum wins out over silver as aluminum's oxidation degrades the reflectivity by only a minimal amount. We've all seen what oxidized silver looks like.


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## fedge (Mar 4, 2004)

Be careful with those CFL's I have read sites that show that the inverters can start a fire!!! Might be safer to switch to metor lights ....


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## Not Mister Green (Feb 15, 2005)

*the extreme specular reflection of mirrors does not diffuse the light...*

So I guess its not fair to say that mirrors don't reflect light, rather that they reflect light in the wrong way for plant growth. 

Try taking a picture of a mirror using a flash camera, then check out the picture. Notice how the light from the flash is mostly concentrated in one spot? That because the mirror - through specular reflection - reflects the light in a very precise way. There's hardly any diffusion of the light so the mirror reflects that light to a specific spot causing a "hot spot" for your plants. This is especially true with single point light sources such as Metal Halide H.I.D. lamps but still occurs with flourescent bulbs.

Yes, Wasserpest, in most cases folks would be best off just using a good quality flat latex bright white paint. Marketing hype is often times just that, marketing hype. 

Your right the shape of the reflector is as important as the type of reflective material, if not more important. It drastically reduces bulb life when the light is reflected directly back into the bulb. Most specular aluminum inserts for horticultural lamps are BRUSHED aluminum and not mirrored aluminum. Plus the good reflectors have a central ridge incorporated in the design to prevent the light from being reflected directly back into the bulb. 

Great thread W, thanks again for your contributions to the site, and keep it coming!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*El Animalero...*

Thanks for clearing this up... If I get bored one day I will build two lighting fixtures, one with mirrors, one with bright white paint. Doesn't happen that often, me getting bored...

Let's have a look at the fauna. Mainly, this tank is the home of my pair of African Butterfly Fish which I have for almost 3 years. I have posted so many pictures of them, here's one, still in their previous home:










There used to be a school of White Cloud Mountain Minnows sharing that tank. Well... they fit pretty well in Butterfly's big mouth. One of them must have figured it out, and is still around:










While taking pictures of shrimp, he curiously looked into the lens, and I managed to press the shutter just at the very right moment:










Another case of survival... Among other things, in Summer I feed mosquito fish to the ABFs, which are plenty in my pond. One of them seems to be exceptionally smart, and has lived for quite a while with them already. It's a lonely male, I don't want to add a female since they reach that Cherry-eating size. So he's kinda bored, only sometimes "molesting" the minnow.










That's the four fishies right now. [Edit: Ooops, forgot... there is also a lonely Oto in the tank, so that makes five!] Besides them, there is a whole bunch of those in there. Since I installed the moonlight, most females seem to have gotten impregnated and soon there will be hundreds of them.










Males are not as colorful:










Obviously this tank is not really stocked. I am planning on a 4 week vacation in Summer, until after that I will leave the tank lightly populated. In the next couple of weeks I will add a bunch of mountain minnows, I can throw them into the pond in Summer while away.

Thinking about adding a school of Black Phantom Tetras later on... they prefer the middle and lower parts of the tank, and don't fit that well into Butterfly mouths. Not sure if they would finish up my Cherries though.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Mister Green said:


> would you believe "Professor Hydro"?  lol
> 
> "Reflecting light back towards your plants is always a good idea, however, using mirror is not the best method of doing this. Mirrors are not actually all that reflective, I have heard that mirrors are only about 80% to 85% reflective, also mirrors do not defuse light which can cause "hotspots". Flat white paint is actually more reflective than mirror and it defuses the light very well."
> 
> ...


I love those cherry shrimp, Wasserpest. Some day I'm going to figure out what a wasserpest is, LOL...
Not to Hijack this excellent thread, but here is a fairly comprehensive test that Sunlight supply did with a lux meter on alot of different reflector materials. Its pretty interesting. Here is the link: http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/t5reflectcomparo.shtml


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Betowess said:


> I love those cherry shrimp, Wasserpest. Some day I'm going to figure out what a wasserpest is, LOL...


It can be a noxious weed, fast grower, or difficult to keep aquatic plant. YMMV


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

fedge said:


> Be careful with those CFL's I have read sites that show that the inverters can start a fire!!! Might be safer to switch to metor lights ....


Yeah, those inverters are scary. I bought quite a few of the cheapy ones, and many of them were DOA, died shortly after turning them on, or sizzled for a while and then blew up. Like they say... playing with fire. :icon_roll 

I am looking at Aquatraders LED strips, looking good and good price, but availability seems to be a problem, and hefty shipping charges too.

There are many choices... (like these: http://www.frozencpu.com/lit-124.html or http://autolumination.com/fixtures.htm) just need to find the best one.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*CO2 issues*

Not much feedback on the animals, maybe picture overload? That's okay, after all, this is the Planted Tank.

Just a quickie on the CO2. My 3 tanks are all fed by one bottle, one regulator with needlevalve, and then some DIY stuff that makes bubbles in all three tanks. My water here is about kH 10, so I am shooting for a pH around 7 to 7.2.

Originally I had a bubble ladder in this tank. I like them, however... being hidden in the "equipment corner" made it both difficult to keep an eye on, and limited the distribution of CO2 throughout the tank.

So I thought of a different method. Using the powerhead which provides mechanical filtration and water circulation seemed like a good idea. I drilled a little hole into the powerhead connector, and now the CO2 bubbles get sucked into and smashed up by the impeller.

What that does... it creates a fine mist of CO2 bubbles. Now I am not expecting any explosive growth of impossible to keep plants a la Barr, but at least the CO2 distribution throughout the tank is much better now compared to the ladder.

What it does too... it turns plants into little glittering Christmas trees:










That's the L. madagascariensis which is in the bubble blast...










This Riccia is actually pearling, not just catching micro bubbles:










Using the powerhead for CO2 distribution removes another piece of equipment from the tank, and since the bubbles are smashed up very fine and travel quite a while to the surface in a 21" tall tank, I think the efficiency is alright too.


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## Prettyhead (Feb 7, 2005)

I like your fauna.  It's nice to know that others have assortments as random as mine... 

Your glittering plants are also lovely.


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## turbowagon (Dec 30, 2005)

Excellent photographs. I especially like the shots of your butterfly fish and white cloud.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks for your feedback Pretty & Turbo! :thumbsup: 

I am proud of the White Cloud close-up myself... although it was all just lucky coincidence, not something that can be easily repeated.

Planning to add 3 or 4 more minnows today or tomorrow.

In the meantime, I exchanged the AC30 powerhead with the stronger (and much noisier) AC50 for better circulation. The sponge works very well, as expected.

Very slowly I have started to look at the aquascape, removing some plants here and there... nothing serious yet.

Fertilizer-wise, I have not added any macros yet, just a squirt of traces and iron every other day. During the weekend, I will set up my autodosing via powerhead for this tank, so I can stop squirting.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Hmmm. So maybe that's the kind of pearling that Tom was talking about with his new approach. I certainly never got near that much with my ceramic diffuser...actually, I'm not getting much at all these days. While yours looks pretty spectacular. Hmmm...so what could that be.

Oh, and the fish pictures are incredible!


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## gloriabills (Oct 4, 2005)

Wow!
That pearling is incredible:icon_eek: 
I wish I could get that, but I'm about to upgrade my 55gal to 260w.
Think that will help?
Anyway, I was wondering how you took those great pictures of your fish?
what kind of camera and settings?
Your tank is looking great.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

BSS said:


> Hmmm. So maybe that's the kind of pearling that Tom was talking about with his new approach. I certainly never got near that much with my ceramic diffuser...actually, I'm not getting much at all these days. While yours looks pretty spectacular. Hmmm...so what could that be.
> 
> Oh, and the fish pictures are incredible!


Thanks Brian!

Regarding the pearling, this is no pearling at all. Actually, I really doubt that there is much difference between bubbles dissolving on their way to the surface, and bubbles dissolving in a reactor. The bubbles you see caught on the plant leaves are probably oxygen, not from photosythesis, but from the powerhead spitting them around in the tank.

Again... not pearling... just bubbles stuck in plants


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

gloriabills said:


> Wow!
> That pearling is incredible:icon_eek:
> I wish I could get that, but I'm about to upgrade my 55gal to 260w.
> Think that will help?


Upgrading light will make plants pearl only for a little while. Unless there is enough plant mass and you provide enough nutrients (CO2, NPK, traces) the joy only lasts for a few days, then say hello to algae taking over 

Like I said above... this is no pearling due to photosynthesis, just bubbles stuck in plants. Looks interesting, for a while, but doesn't make your plants grow any faster.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

gloriabills said:


> Anyway, I was wondering how you took those great pictures of your fish?
> what kind of camera and settings?
> Your tank is looking great.


Thank you!  

About 30 years ago, I was laying on my belly in the grass and took photos of Daffodil flowers and bugs. Since then, I have been fascinated by macro photography. During the years of 35mm, I burned through quite a few rolls of slide film with fishtails and blurry shapes.

Long story short... the outcome of the images is about 15% camera and 85% the dude behind it that's taking the pictures. Don't go and buy a $2000 camera and expect to get great shots overnight. Digital is great though... much easier to learn by trial and error if you don't have to wait for the lab to get your slides developed. In a few years, ppl will shake their head at the idea to use a roll of film.

Anyway, I am using a Canon G3, I hold a projector lens in front of it when I want to get really close (like for the shrimps and the minnow face) and in this case, also use an external flash that illuminated things from above.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Thanks Brian!
> 
> Regarding the pearling, this is no pearling at all. Actually, I really doubt that there is much difference between bubbles dissolving on their way to the surface, and bubbles dissolving in a reactor. The bubbles you see caught on the plant leaves are probably oxygen, not from photosythesis, but from the powerhead spitting them around in the tank.
> 
> Again... not pearling... just bubbles stuck in plants


I really like that explanation...especially since it means I'm not doing anything strange...for a change :thumbsup: !


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Autodosing... Yeah baby!*

After only a few weeks I am already tired of dosing, so why dose twice a week when a machine can do it twice a day??

About time for another implementation of the Wasserpest Auto Doser (cheap, easy, reliable). Take a small powerhead, in this case I chose a Hydor Pico 500II (why? because it was on sale for $11, is very small, and sucks water from it's bottom), a plastic container from the $ store, some tubing, and a timer:










Half an hour of measuring and marking, and all is set for twice a day dosing of micros. Right now this is Flourish, Flourish Iron, and some Excel just to see if it will reduce the growth that I am noticing in the micro bottle. If I will run low on Nitrates and Potassium I can add them later as well.

If I want to run it for four weeks I just double the concentration and set it to dose once a day instead of twice.

Oh yeah... it tops off the tank too. All for < $20. :thumbsup:


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Looks like fun, I may have to try something like this out. Is there any settling of the mix? I would assume it is just alot of testing to see what the output of the pump is for x amount of time. Is it consistant?

Looks fun, nice work


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Neat DIY toy, Wasser. I must have been busy in October when you started the original thread on DIY dosers. This is the first I've seen it. I have an unused eheim liquidoser right in front of me. I bought it because I thought my tank was suffering from micros depletion. Long story short, it wasn't. But, this is because as it turns out, my tap is FULL of trace minerals (had an analysis done at the university). And, in truth, it would seem that few folks living in my neck of the woods even need to use Flourish or other trace products (as long as they use tap for their water changes). 

Is your tap seriously devoid of trace minerals? Have you tried using a TDS meter to see if your plants are removing the traces?

Not trying to take away from the efforts you made on the doser. I do think it's a pretty inventive idea roud:. Just wondering how tap water differs from my area of the world.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

bigstick120 said:


> Looks like fun, I may have to try something like this out. Is there any settling of the mix? I would assume it is just alot of testing to see what the output of the pump is for x amount of time. Is it consistant?
> 
> Looks fun, nice work


There is no settling of the mix in my case. Maybe the solution is weak enough to prevent that. Potassium Sulfate is the most difficult to dissolve, but still there's a lot of water for little powder. If you are concerned about settling, you can add a little "T" to the pump and mix the water that way, like I described in the thread I referenced.

Testing the output is very easy... you fill some water into the container, put it where it is going to be (I hang this one onto hooks in the stand... the pump is not strong enough to place the container onto the bottom). Then put the hose over the rim of the tank, or somewhere into a container that has the same height as the rim of the tank. Then run the pump for a minute, and see if that looks like it's going to work. Restricting the end of the hose let's you fine-tune the amount that's going through the hose in a minute. Once you're about happy with the dosing volume, you just run the pump for a minute, and mark the new level, repeat, repeat, etc. 

Output is very consistent. Provided you use an electronic timer, running it for a minute will give you a very similar volume every day. As the level in the container goes down, dosing volume will be reduced, but unless the powerhead is very weak the change is neglegible.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

unirdna said:


> Is your tap seriously devoid of trace minerals? Have you tried using a TDS meter to see if your plants are removing the traces?


Earlier in the thread I described how quickly plants turn yellow and white... with iron and trace dosing that can be fixed almost immediately. So yeah, my water here has some nitrate, lots of calcium and magnesium, and not much else helpful for plant growth.

I use a TDS meter to check out how much "stuff" is building up and if it is time for a water change. Are traces a major part of TDS (in hard water)?


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Are traces a major part of TDS (in hard water)?


TDS certainly increased when I (over) dosed Flourish. Dosing my tank increased TDS from 300 - 600+. This was when my amano shrimp all dropped dead.

TDS increases with everything I add to the tank. Ferts, micros, iron, even fishfood (eventually  ). 

At the time my TDS was over 600, my tank params were:

NO3 10ppm
PO4 1ppm
Iron 0ppm
GH 4
KH 4

Compare that with my water now, with 330 TDS.

NO3 20ppm
PO4 1.5ppm
Iron .5 ppm
GH 5
KH 5.

IME, traces can skyrocket TDS if (over) dosed. When my tank TDS was at 600+, it seemed that the only plant that suffered was Blyxa japonica (which is on the comeback, now that my tank has been restored). The other plants didn't seem to mind, and I can't say that algae was an issue either. Amanos dropped like flies though. Since restoring my tank conditions, I haven't had one shrimp death. I have to believe it was the OD of traces that did this.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I will measure the TDS in my micro dosing container. And macro too. That might be interesting. Just not sure if you can simplify that much and equal TDS = traces.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Oh, I'm not drawing the sweeping conclusion that TDS = traces. Only that traces will increase TDS. Until they create a "traces meter", a TDS meter is the best we have to (very) roughly gauge the amount of trace addition and uptake.

I look forward to your analysis.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Tds - Ec?*

I have been doing some measuring. I don't have a TDS meter (ppm), I have an EC meter (mS). Not sure what the difference is... anybody knows?

Anyway, assuming that they measure the same thing, with different units.

My tap water shows 0.52 mS today.

Going through my tanks:

100 gal tank 2 weeks after WC: 1.09 mS ~40% WC: 0.86 mS
36 gal tank 2 weeks after WC: 1.14 mS ~60% WC: 0.82 mS
10 gal tank 1 week after WC: 0.94 mS ~ 30% WC: 0.80 mS

Now here's the interesting thing Ted...

Concentrated Micro mixture (Flourish, F/Iron): 0.94 mS
Concentrated Macro mixture: (NPKMg): 15 mS

This tells me that micros like Flourish do not appreciably increase EC. Macros do quite a bit. Makes sense to me. Still not sure how this translates into TDS. Need to Google some more. Thank God for Google.


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## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

if i remember correctly, conductivity is not necessarily a measure of TDS... (ionic) salts will give you much higher conductivity than an equally proportioned dose of EDTA iron, etc... but don't take my word for it... okie-dokie silly-o, I'm an idiot.

Oqsy


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Fauna Success and Failure...*

I think TDS and EC are related though... Interesting stuff.

Last week I bought 4 more minnows and 1 more Oto. Boy are those minnows skinny :eek5: First they were too weak to even eat something, but after a few hours the started nibbling on vegatation, and the next day started munching flakes. A day later, I counted 3. 2 days later, only two left. Dang, they are not supposed to go up there where the Butterflies are :icon_roll 

The tiny Oto (the last one in the store) didn't look so great either, but started scrubbing leaves soon, and now, after 4 days, has a nice belly like they are supposed to. He (somehow I think of it as a boy) started to bother the other Oto (fat... a girl, I think) in a very gentle way. The two of them play around all day now, while before the single Oto never even came out before moonlight.


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## dudleystinks (Apr 9, 2005)

love the butterflies how big do they get? May i suggest you buy bigger fish that dont fit in their mouths lol or will they kill fish bigger than them anyway?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

They are very boring, uhm I mean peaceful. They don't kill anything, they just swallow things that look like would fit into their big mouths. For example, I have a Pearl Gourami with them now and they are best friends. Otos are pretty safe too. They ignore even Cherries that are skimming around at the surface. I heard ppl had good luck with hatchet fish and ABFs. Hatchets don't have a good shape to fit inside their mouth. However, these minnows must be too tasty snacks when they come up for food.

Anything that hits the surface from above is pretty much toast. :fish1: 

The female is about 3.5 in now, the male a little skinnier.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> They ignore even Cherries that are skimming around at the surface.


They eat crickets (great photo, btw), yet they leave cherries alone!? Strange fish. In college my roomate had a tank full of butterflies. Feeding day always gravitated everyone in the dorm to our room.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I think it's like if it is there, they ignore it, if it appears all of a sudden, it sparks interest. Then they decide in about 1/100 of a second if it is good to gulp down, and go for it.

In other words, if I would drop a cherry shrimp into the tank it would become food.

What do you think about my EC measurements? Don't really line up with what you were saying about traces and TDS...


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Just came back to look at the tank pics again, as I was about to order some Planta and 10000ks. I think the color hues on those earlier pics are totally right on! Unfortunately the Drs. are sold out of only those two T5 lights because so many people saw this thread, Wasspest. GRRRR... Now I have to be PATIENT for 15 days of backorder or pony up the extra 20 clams for 4' T5s from Innovative Lights, the only other dealer I could find with a decent price. Someday in the not too distant future T5s will be very common I suspect. Great story unfolding. Nice macro work for sure.


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

Betowess said:


> Just came back to look at the tank pics again, as I was about to order some Planta and 10000ks. I think the color hues on those earlier pics are totally right on! Unfortunately the Drs. are sold out of only those two T5 lights because so many people saw this thread, Wasspest. GRRRR... Now I have to be PATIENT for 15 days of backorder or pony up the extra 20 clams for 4' T5s from Innovative Lights, the only other dealer I could find with a decent price. Someday in the not too distant future T5s will be very common I suspect. Great story unfolding. Nice macro work for sure.


I found 10,000-12,000K T5 to be so attractive as well (not not mention that they are so efficient per watt output). I just got myself a 12,000K T5 4 x 30W, 6 foot fixture ($65) for my long tank. Not as a main source of light, but just to even out. I love it so much that I'm going to get a second one and I'd one day swap the halides bulb I have with 10,000K ones ($60) when they fail.

I'm sure one of wasserpest's sucess factor is using high K lamp, which make the plants colour up. One shop here that is using 10,000K metal halides got a huge 80 cm+ rotala macandra which is totally red though it has long internodes. My tank with 5,500K halides and sunlight supplement... no chance... I already got greenish new growth within two weeks.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Betowess said:


> Unfortunately the Drs. are sold out of only those two T5 lights because so many people saw this thread, Wasspest. GRRRR... Now I have to be PATIENT for 15 days of backorder or pony up the extra 20 clams for 4' T5s from Innovative Lights, the only other dealer I could find with a decent price. Someday in the not too distant future T5s will be very common I suspect. Great story unfolding. Nice macro work for sure.


I think them bulbs being on sale, and free shipping had something to do with that too. 

Thank you for the kudos.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

medicineman said:


> I found 10,000-12,000K T5 to be so attractive as well (not not mention that they are so efficient per watt output). I just got myself a 12,000K T5 4 x 30W, 6 foot fixture ($65) for my long tank. Not as a main source of light, but just to even out. I love it so much that I'm going to get a second one and I'd one day swap the halides bulb I have with 10,000K ones ($60) when they fail.
> 
> I'm sure one of wasserpest's sucess factor is using high K lamp, which make the plants colour up. One shop here that is using 10,000K metal halides got a huge 80 cm+ rotala macandra which is totally red though it has long internodes. My tank with 5,500K halides and sunlight supplement... no chance... I already got greenish new growth within two weeks.


I somewhat disagree with your assumption that the high K lamp makes plants color up. I think it has more to do with the Planta/GE 9325 bulbs and their pinkish hue (makes them look pinker), and the fact that I don't add NO3 (makes them color up nicely).

The high K bulb offsets the pinkish plant bulbs. Without it, light green plants look rather ugly...


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Small improvements...*

As time goes by, some concepts don't work out as well as I had them planned.

For example the powerhead (AquaClear 50) made quite a racket. Thinking about it, I have it turned upside down, with the inlet pointing up for easier access to the sponge. That kind of powerhead doesn't seem to like it. I turned it around, so now it sits on top of the sponge. And it became really quiet.

However, now I have to do some in-tank plumbing to get the outlet close to the bottom of the tank, passing underneath the moss/fern wall that hides all the equipment. With all the elbows, the moss thing doesn't fit nicely into the corner anymore. Time to come up with a different design. Again. :icon_roll


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

Wasserpest said:


> I somewhat disagree with your assumption that the high K lamp makes plants color up. I think it has more to do with the Planta/GE 9325 bulbs and their pinkish hue (makes them look pinker), and the fact that I don't add NO3 (makes them color up nicely).
> 
> The high K bulb offsets the pinkish plant bulbs. Without it, light green plants look rather ugly...


I understand that pinkish hue bulbs can make a good visual effect (as I'm also using Hitachi ones in one of my tanks). Love that bulb!
I guess it is difficult to understand how plants react to treatments. I have green plants turning red and red plants turning green and it is just funny  . It is my fault for not having a NO3 test kit that I havent been able to control my NO3 at a low but reasonable to try out stimulating reds.

Perhaps more experience to come will make me learn.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Butterfly paradise*

Besides myself, my pair of ABFs really enjoys their new tank. Being sent to exile in the garage, protected from freezing with styrofoam, absolute darkness after lightout... must have been like jail.










Like I said earlier... don't try this at home... and blame me for failures. Kitty litter and jobes WILL lead to massive algae explosions in your tank. I am just lucky. Still too early to do serious aquascaping, it is now a collection of happily growing weeds.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Now here's the interesting thing Ted...
> 
> Concentrated Micro mixture (Flourish, F/Iron): 0.94 mS
> 
> Concentrated Macro mixture: (NPKMg): 15 mS


Hey Wasser,

Sorry for the delay getting back to you on this. I did a TDS experiment today that shows some continuities and some stark differences to your EC findings. I'm writing it up as soon as I submit this reply. 

Sweet avatar change .

Ted

edit: Done. Find it here.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Found it! Even if you can't track nutrient absorption by plants, it is still a useful measurement to tell you how much salts build up overall in your tank. I do weekly EC measurements to get a better feeling of how frequently water changes might be necessary.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

The tank is about two months old now. Nitrate has bottomed out, visible mostly on the light green new growth of Sagittarias.

Started to add some KNO3 and K2SO4 to my autodosing solution. Not much... don't want to encourage algae growth in a still maturing tank, but don't want to invide BGA by keeping it too low either.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Finetuning...*

There is that saying about doing it right the first time... but where's the fun in that? :icon_roll 

I end up doing the same things over and over until I finally think I got it right.

CO2 dispensing for example... I must have tried all possible ways of getting it into my tanks. There are periods when all my tanks have Nutrafin ladders... then I switch to powered reactors... then I realize what an eyesore they are, and just bubble into HOB or other filter.

Filtration is another thing... I started with a powerhead (AC30, see earlier in this thread) with some sort of manifold attached to direct the flow where I wanted it. After a while, I noticed insufficient flow in the tank. I replaced it with the stronger AC50. Turned out to be very noisy. Why? I had it placed upside down, with the sponge on top. So I turned it around. Now it was quiet, but the flow too strong. So I went back to the AC30. Then I remembered that this one was not noisy when upside down. So back to the very original design. What I learned? Without the outflow routed through more pipes, the flow of the smaller pump is plenty for this tank.

Often, the simplest solution turns out to be the best.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

This is how the tank looks now... still in its collectoritis stage.










My favorite low light groundcover, the two-leaved pearlweed, is starting to cover nicely some of the flourite area.

Sagittaria is still kinda pale... any suggestions what to try there? Part of it is the pinkish Planta bulb which makes light green plants look horrible.


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

Looking good WP

although those sides could do with a rub :S


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, I'm digging it too. Those sunset hygros look fantastic. I actually like the green "painted" sides. Love those plantas and 10Ks too! I'm coming to the conclusion that if its two of each type of T5, the pink hue becomes less noticeable, compared to one tube of each type. 

But what's with this 4 star bologne?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Hehe, there's some diatoms and dust algae on the glass, but cleaning the front is about as far as I go. Pondering a black background... kinda tough now that the tank is filled and sitting heavily in the corner. The see-through is definitely spoiled by the slightest algae cover, with the wall being white.



Betowess said:


> But what's with this 4 star bologne?


??? Huh ???


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Betowess said:


> But what's with this 4 star bologne?


If I may quote myself???
The number of stars, the thread's rating, not the bad, tasteless, and gross (unless fried for breakfast) overprocessed sandwich stuff.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Betowess said:


> But what's with this 4 star bologne?


I think a harsh "critic" is storming the forum. Thread ratings are dropping everywhere :hihi:. Poor soul.

Thanks for fiiiiiiinally giving us a tank shot, Wasser. I dig the way you mounted the sprite to the wall :thumbsup:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Hehe, yeah, someone hated this thread. :icon_roll 

You know, each time I look at my photos I learn something new. Just realized that I have to turn off the filter for the images to get a little sharper. If you notice bottom area towards the left third the plants are not in focus. That's because they are being blown around by the flow of the powerhead. Duh!

Watersprite, just rubber-suckered to the side wall. I am not too much into 'scaping yet :redface: 

Was thinking of using light green plants for the foreground, and dark green/brown plants for the back to give this more visual depth. Have this problem in my 10 gal, it's all the same tone of green, and in a photo it looks like a 2-dimensional thing, all flowing into each other.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Finally... Algae!*

No little aquatic ecosystem or planted tank is complete without a nice big variety of algae. After a few weeks, I finally succeed in growing some of them.

Let's start with some hair algae. There are different kinds in this tank, this one (left photo) is the most impressive, growing several inches tall, gently waving in the current. It's a pleasant sight.










To the right, diatoms growing their beautiful patterns. After enjoying them for a while, they are overgrown with green dust algae. This is what I call biologic activity! Imagine the capacity for reducing harmful ammonia and nitrites! Doesn't it look lovely, how it turns the cold, artificial glass into something close to nature?










Really proud to find this little tuft of BBA. Hope it will spread a little more, the way it covers a piece of flourite is just too cute.










Now here is the best, and you tell me what I can do to propagate these beauties: staghorn algae. I absolutely love these little trees. Remind me of some corals, don't you agree? Hope they last a long time. However, in my other tanks I can't keep them alive, and I am afraid they will be a short pleasure.










This, on the other hand, is something that I don't have to struggle much to successfully grow. Short and healthy hair algae. With the way it covers the flourite I almost don't need another groundcover. Still not decided yet between this or a pearlweed lawn. This seems just so much easier to maintain.










Yeah... I don't know what all that fuss is about.


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## SunkShip (Oct 29, 2004)

All natural baby


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

you must really know what you are doing to grow four of them at one time.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

:hihi:

Nice photos. The BBA is kind of cute.


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

You been smoking something Wassser? :hihi:
I can see what you mean about it looking like coral..
Nice pics.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Well, first time, correction, second time I have ever had the pleasure of hearing someone say BBA is "cute". Nice macro work. WP, you da maestro of macro, IMHO.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Lorenceo said:


> You been smoking something Wassser? :hihi:
> I can see what you mean about it looking like coral..
> Nice pics.


Nope... just a rainy day, makes me think philosophical thoughts. Algae... all a matter of attitute. The harder you fight, the more difficult becomes your life. Or something like that.


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

The bba reminds me of a tribble.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

It's up for adoption...


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

That picture of bba reminds me of a guppy tank I used to keep except the bba only grew on the live snails. The little black tufts would scurry around the tank looking for scraps of food.:icon_roll 

Marcel


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

LMAO!!!!!! That was just the greatest post I think I have read on here in a long time!! An the fish jus couldnt be happier! I am gonna have to try it!!roud:

Oops.....What fish???


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

This journal is coming to an end... Just wanted to say a big thanks to those who provided some feedback, especially *Bob* and *Ted*... I hope that among the almost 10000 views are some that took away ideas (to do's and don't do's) from my approach to substrate, light, filtration, dosing and all the other good stuff.

If you've read the algae post you might think that tank is overrun by them, but far from it... about 3 feet away actually, it looks very clean.

And then there is a bunch of these guys helping out... Lots of babies now in the tank, chewing away at the different sorts of algae.










I'll update in a few with some tank shots and aquascaping thoughts.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

That BBA is great looking, what is the demensions of that little tuft. that would be awsome to have covering the ground of a 2.5g. I love how it is slightly purple. my BBA is nothing like that. And by the way, do your cherries like that green algea


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Ryzilla said:


> That BBA is great looking, what is the demensions of that little tuft. that would be awsome to have covering the ground of a 2.5g. I love how it is slightly purple. my BBA is nothing like that. And by the way, do your cherries like that green algea


Well the rocks that you see in my algae macros are flourite particles, so diameter of that tuft about 2-3 mm? The shrub-looking stuff is hair algae... magnified.

Actually I am not 100% sure what these cherries like to eat. Sometimes I think they are chewing around on the hair algae, but mostly they seem to prefer picking surfaces, like leaves and substrate. Since I don't feed them they live from what's in the tank, which keeps things clean.


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## Simpleton (Jul 31, 2002)

you even make algae beautiful, geez lol. I love it.


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## observant_imp (Jun 30, 2004)

You can't call it "the end" until you tear the tank down.

I'm waiting to see how you plant this thing when you are done with the initial break in stage.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

observant_imp said:


> You can't call it "the end" until you tear the tank down.
> 
> I'm waiting to see how you plant this thing when you are done with the initial break in stage.


Not the end of the tank, just the end of the setup stage, end of frequent journal updates...

I am not going to replant this in any way... my aquascaping is one of gradual change, letting plants mostly grow the way they want to. I'll be sure to update this in a few months just to have some continuity.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

A month has gone by, and as expected, I wasn't able to grow most of the algae. The hair algae lawn is all gone, staghorn didn't last, the lonely little BBA tribble is still around, but it doesn't look like much of a future for it.

I pulled out some of the fast growers, like Wisterias, and most sunset hygros.

Built another little fixture with one (overdriven to 19W) 15W T8 bulb instead of the two (underdriven to 12W) 15W T8 bulbs. Resulting in a little less wattage and a little more light.

Really need to think about aquascaping. Not sure what to do with the (now) small Echinodorus in front, but I know it needs to go somewhere. I like the contrast between the Lagarosiphon (thin green needles) and Alternanthera (fat purple leaves) so this will play some role in my future scaping. Moss is finally getting a hold on the plastic grid in the back which hides heater and pump and cables and stuff. There isn't that much light going there, so it takes a while.

BTW the powerhead with sponge stuck to inlet and CO2 misting all over the tank is great. Huge filter capacity, and no worries. Good current in the lower part of the tank, and the surface remains mostly undisturbed.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Not the end of the tank, just the end of the setup stage, end of frequent journal updates...
> 
> I am not going to replant this in any way... my aquascaping is one of gradual change, letting plants mostly grow the way they want to. I'll be sure to update this in a few months just to have some continuity.


I think this journal ought to be a sticky/reference for those like me relatively new to the hobby. You gotta keep this one going Wassman! One question, on your pearlweed, is that the regular pearlweed, or a different variety. Mine just kept growing so thick and high, I pulled it out, then later re introduced as a bush, which I like in bush form. I love the plant, but it grows so dang fast.

The tank looks kind of aquascaped already. I love shots looking from below to the water surface like the first one of these two with its wistful pink hues. The rounded tank made me first think you had used a fisheye lens.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks for your kind comments. Not sure regarding the sticky, thanks though. I might add a reference in my sig for easy access.

The pearlweed is not the regular one, it's "Two-leaved" instead of 3 or 4 leaves per node. It's a real ground hugger for me, and considering the now 59 Watts of lighting for this 36 gal tank, not the most demanding either.

PM me your address and I will get some out to you. Or let's wait until things warm up a little more.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

That would be great. I'll wait a bit till I have the new tank up and running (size I can't decide yet - currently between a Oceanic 58 gal. or an AGA 65 gallon). I'll Pm you, maybe I have something you might want like a piece of my Blyxa aubertii. Thanks again.


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## Jane of Upton (Apr 2, 2006)

Wow, thank you for such a wonderful journal thread! I've just read through the entire thing - its great!

I also really appreciate all the photos, especially in the setup phase. And its nice to see rather "unorthodox" methodology blended in with CO2 and dosing. I used to do "Quackenbush" style substrate setups, with kitty litter and slow-release fertilizer capped by fine sand. I still have two of those going, but one is slated for a tear-down this month. Recent setups have used a soil underlayer with coarse sand, and its interesting to see your peat-clay-fertilizer sticks & flourite substrate! So is "Special Kitty" just a good plain clay? I still have some "Hartz pH 5.5" around. 

You're inspired me to toy around with the substrates some more.

I also am now off to read the filter modification thread. I'm really glad to hear the simple solution mindset put forth so eloquently!

And I'm amazed your ABF don't go after the Cherry shrimp. That's neat. 

Well, thanks again for this thread, and please DO put some updates in regularly - I for one will be checking to follow up on THIS tank!

Thanks!
-Jane


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Hi there Jane, welcome to The Planted Tank, and thank you very much for your kind feedback. These are the sort of comments that make it all worth!

Special Kitty is some sort of fired clay, if I remember right it is Montmorillonite (geologically speaking). It acts basically like cheap, browngreygreen colored Flourite. Doesn't turn to mush or anything. This has been discussed a few times and everyone agrees that each bag of Special Kitty (especially if you buy in different regions) can be something totally different, and the bag you might buy will dissolve to nasty mush in minutes. So, it is up to everyone else to do some testing yourself or go with the proven, expensive stuff. I heard the Hartz stuff favorably mentioned before, but if it dissolves I wouldn't use it.

The ABF's just hang out at the surface, they might enjoy a delicious cherry here and there, but the shrimpsies usually stay in the lower part of the tank. And since there are so many now, I don't mind if they enrich the ABF menu once in a while.

Looking forward to see you often at TPT!


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## Ktulu_JL (Apr 3, 2006)

Great thread, and thanks very much for sharing!! kudo's to you!

I agree with your, off the beaten path type of approach (substrate ferts/peat, filtering, auto-dosing etc etc). Most of the wild tries don't work out and then we move onto some other wild attempt.

The whole glass mirror thing is a great try, you had an old mirror and used it. To order some kind of high-tech reflector could take a week to come in, and cost a ton of money. Why not use what is around the house when you have time to do the project and see how it works out. All of the defraction and reflection reports always have optimal conditions (e.g. clear/clean glass top, perfect height of bulb, condensation cleanings). People rarely report how well these perfect solutions work after a few months of gunk everywhere much less how well a polished aluminum reflector works after two years of wiping it constantly.

Thanks for sharing so much, this has been a great thread (so far!!!).

cya


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks JL for your kind comments! 

I replaced the two bulb mirror fixture with a one bulb miro reflector fixture... More light with a little less wattage. All my tanks have cover glasses to keep reflectors cleaner, longer. It is easier to clean (or replace) a glass cover than the costly reflectors.

Most recently this tank has shown a great lack of algae. Even the green film on the glass is totally gone, and the Amanos are staring at me like, what happened? When I feed them unfrozen peas and such, a merciless battle develops...


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> ...the Amanos are staring at me like, what happened? When I feed them unfrozen peas and such, a merciless battle develops...


:hihi: Great narration. Lack of algae has created carnivores out of my amanos. Sitting on the substrate, holding a bloodworm.....I can see the disgust in their eyes.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

unirdna said:


> :hihi: Great narration. Lack of algae has created carnivores out of my amanos. Sitting on the substrate, holding a bloodworm.....I can see the disgust in their eyes.


So what's up with this tank Wasser? This is/was my favorite thread on the forum. I recently got some (by accident) White Cloud Mtn. Minnows and they are such a pretty little fish. I'm thinking I might put a small school in a new tank.
They brought to mind your corner tank thread...

Here is some great food for Amanos.Its hilarious to watch them battle over and try to cart off/hoard a full sized Hikari sinking wafer for Corys. But their new favorite food is some Kent Platinum TropicalXtreme "small sinking pellets" not too big for them to easily cart off and hoard, the little piglets. When they do, I know they aren't eating my algae. Mine seem to prefer both of the above. I guess I got red meat var. vegans! LOL.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

This is funny... Last night I thought the same, what's up with this tank. I actually re-read this thread and thought about posting an update.

Yesterday I added some branchy root pieces, wrapped with Christmas moss. Of course, without picture this info isn't worth much. I am not 100% happy with the placement. The twigs are leaning against the front glass, not sure how to anchor them better and have them stick up in an angle without falling over.

One of these days I will take a picture and share the new sight!

White Clouds are indeed beautiful fish. They are only $1 around here, and the way how males impress each other is quite a show. Plus having the little ones... From my 4 minnows, only 2 are left  Butterflies had a snack. I would like to fill this tank up with minnows. In 5 years or so, whenever the ABF's have gone to ABF heaven, I'll probably fill the tank up with WCMMs.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Wow! Great lookin' tank you got there! Crisp, clean, healthy growth!


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## krazykidd86 (Jul 27, 2005)

Georgiadawgger said:


> Wow! Great lookin' tank you got there! Crisp, clean, healthy growth!


I second that. I enjoy checking in on this thread every so often. Those closeups of the shrimp is spectacular, yet creepy. But anyways, nice job. Looking forward to your continued updates.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks for the feedback! 

Still need to get a representative shot of the tank, but the other day I was playing around with my flash, and got this quick and (somewhat) dirty impression of my latest 'scaping adventures.










A little hard to make out, but there they are... Christmas moss wrapped roots.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

And here a better picture:










On its way to an aquascape...


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

I like the moss look. Lemme ask you this...what difference are you finding with Christmas moss vs regular java moss? I got sick of java since it was such a pain in the butt to trim, but I may consider it again if I can get a hold of a piece of wood like you have!!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Oh yeah! Very nice. Did ya wrap the moss with black thread? Mine has come unraveled and I haven't gotten around to rewrapping it. I just move it to some corner out of the way until that time arrives. It doesn't want to stay on the smooth parts of the wood. Love the wood and that sunset Hygro with the Planta & 10000K lights reaching through!


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## Y0uH0 (Dec 19, 2005)

Really great journal Wasserpest, it allowed us to see every single step u took. From the setting up to the algae problem and now the aquascaping. I love the left side of the tank. Gonna look forward to see this aquascape of yours mature. With the christmas moss thickening into a bush and stuff..cheers~!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Georgiadawgger said:


> I like the moss look. Lemme ask you this...what difference are you finding with Christmas moss vs regular java moss? I got sick of java since it was such a pain in the butt to trim, but I may consider it again if I can get a hold of a piece of wood like you have!!


Java and Christmas moss look very different. Java grows kinda scraggly into all directions, while Christmas moss is more compact and grows much fatter and denser. I will do some comparison shots if you are interested, both in the water and out of it.

I agree with you regarding the pain to trim Java moss... I had a java moss wall, and it just grew right into the tank all the time. With the Christmass moss, it stays much nicer and compact.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Betowess said:


> Oh yeah! Very nice. Did ya wrap the moss with black thread? Mine has come unraveled and I haven't gotten around to rewrapping it. I just move it to some corner out of the way until that time arrives. It doesn't want to stay on the smooth parts of the wood. Love the wood and that sunset Hygro with the Planta & 10000K lights reaching through!


Thanks Bob, yep, black thread, wrapped all the root pieces fairly evenly with moss. Looks ragged right now, and I am sure it will take some time, but I hope it will eventually attach to the roots and grow on some spots, while others still showing the wood.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Georgiadawgger said:


> I like the moss look. Lemme ask you this...what difference are you finding with Christmas moss vs regular java moss? I got sick of java since it was such a pain in the butt to trim, but I may consider it again if I can get a hold of a piece of wood like you have!!


Like promised, I took some shots of Java and Christmas Moss side-by-side:


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## deeplove (Dec 27, 2005)

What a BIG difference. The XMas moss is just lovely compared to the JMoss. Not that you can't do much with the JMoss. The XMas moss is just more pleasing to the eye.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

It does look much better due to its compact growth. The root pieces that I wrapped with moss are starting to look more natural, and I am starting the first careful haircuts.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

That looks very nice.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thank you! In the meantime, the Christmas moss has grown to large thick bundles around the roots, and is casting big shadows over the plants underneath. Can't get everything quite perfect.


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## Pyt (Nov 20, 2006)

Hi Wasserpest

How is the tank comming along?

I've just bought a similar tank, and I am looking for scaping ideas.

Do you have any new pictures to share? I really like your last scape with the branches.

/Pyt


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Welcome to the Planted Tank Pyt, and thanks for asking!

The tank is doing very well. I consider it low maintenance, cleaning the front glass, squeezing the filter sponge, and changing water -- every 3 weeks.

I'll take some pictures over the weekend and post them here... also need to update my 100gal photo.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Sorry for the delay, here is an updated picture.










Don't feel like aquascaping much, moss and pellia are growing thick, Alternanthera doesn't like it much, and the tank is overrun by Red Cherry Roaches. :smile: 

I change water every 3 or 4 weeks, and dose small amounts of everything. Plants have outgrown any algae.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

For some reason, I grew tired of the same old, same old, jungle, Amano, natural, yadda yadda...

So I bought a couple of lava rocks, ripped out all plants except the Marsilea, and added the rocks. Pushed various ferns and mosses into the rock crannies.

A Crinum (thanks again Steven...) got the center spot, although I am not sure about that, maybe it should be moved into the back.

The Bolbitis on the left will probably go once things have grown in (or on).


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Crinums are sooo cool-looking, but sooo hard to place in an aquascape (especially in smaller tanks). The same can be said for bolbitis. Or, maybe, I'm just a louzy aquascaper . 

Is there any space behind the big rock to do any planting?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Behind the big rock is the tank corner, which is mostly reserved for the filter (powerhead + sponge + CO2 line) and heater. This works very well... maybe one day I get a canister filter and put heater and CO2 externally inline, then I will have more room in the back.


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## Subotaj (Oct 16, 2006)

> Crinums are sooo cool-looking, but sooo hard to place in an aquascape (especially in smaller tanks).


:thumbsup:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

So are you suggesting to remove the Crinum? I thought it looks sort of cool, like an alien tree, or weird coral thing. Maybe it will outgrow the tank... I guess I shall find out.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Things are growing well... I removed the Bolbitis jungle on the left, to put more focus on the rock formation. Suesswassertang grows to cute little pillows, Riccia adds some bubble glitter, Flame moss sets some accents. Having a little Pellia problem... what a weed. Can't get rid of it in the Marsilea foreground, and it grows out of my nicely rounded Riccia and SWtang cushions.

Except for a little bit of green and brown algae on the glass, Cherries keep it clean and algae free.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Wasser the tank is looking good. Sorry, no time to go back and re-read (pics are gone  ) Wasn't this the one loaded with the amazing amount of jobes spikes? the Crinum is really cool looking, but I think maybe a bit back.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yep, that's the one with thick peat, kitty litter, and jobes. For me, that combination has been working well. So well, that I use it in my 100 gal tank now too.

Can't move the Crinum back further, it is already almost flush against the rock.

Not sure if it is the bent front glass, the angled back glasses, or the depth, but it is difficult to get good-looking pictures of this tank. In person it looks definitely better than in a photo.

One of these days I will re-upload the photos.


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## KyleT (Jul 22, 2002)

Good news! Pictures are back!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks Boss!



tazcrash69 said:


> (pics are gone  )


Pics are back! :thumbsup:


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Man the tank is looking good ! Aint laid eyes on that in quite some time...Im gonna have to go back and read some details later !


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

H o lyyy 
Its Buck whoa 

Wow this is really amazing. I got Ants crawling up my back.
Is this your first time back in years?
Wow I havent seen Wassp before but That is ALOT OF PEARLING
look at the riccia its white


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Buck said:


> Man the tank is looking good ! Aint laid eyes on that in quite some time...Im gonna have to go back and read some details later !


Heh, you were the first to respond like wow, almost two years ago. The weird substrate mixture has worked out really well.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Great write up and photos wasser...I know its an old thread but it's new to me.  

Kudos on the thread and the tank...Thanks


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## Sticky230 (Mar 30, 2008)

any updates recently on this tank?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Update 1 - newer tank picture*

Yes, thank you for asking, there are a few updates that I would like to share, three of them. This first one is an more recent picture which reflects how the tank has looked over the last half year:










There are two other little things that I am going to add as soon as I get the pictures off my camera and into the photobucket. One about some interesting algae, and another related to a wonderful flower.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I love corner tanks, and this one is no exception! Beautiful!


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## NATURE AQUARIUM (Dec 16, 2007)

Looking Good, I have always wanted to buy a corner tank!!!


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## Markone (Mar 20, 2008)

Hi Wasserpest,

now that I´ve quick-read trough the whole thread, congratulations to that alternative way of setting up a tank!

I´ve read all articles on the AGA Site in former times and copied diverse substrate mixtures, but meanwhile I got lazy, due to job etc. and have a little more money I use ADA Soil ...but I got all the alternatives in mind, some worked, some didn´t. 

I often feel bored by always the same looks of planted tanks, just like you did, but we have a guy here who creates "Green Reefs" and he has got me back to planted tanks in a different way, the plants get smaller and smaller, nearly only mosses...but I´m a great algae grower as well .

Regards,
Mark.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Hey Mark1, aren't you the guy I sent some L.m.? Harolds Green Reef is awesome, and somewhat of an inspiration for the lava rocks in this tank, but I operate with much lower wattages  

This substrate mix (peat & kitty litter) has worked out great for me, I am using it in almost all my tanks and will keep setting up tanks with it in the future as well.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

now that's a mother plant crinum


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## jazzlvr123 (Jul 16, 2007)

nice tank


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## Markone (Mar 20, 2008)

> Hey Mark1, aren't you the guy I sent some L.m.? Harolds Green Reef is awesome, and somewhat of an inspiration for the lava rocks in this tank, but I operate with much lower wattages


Yes I am, and I still have the L.m. after I searched for it over years, also I´m the guy using 8000 Kelvin MH bulbs from an Asian Distributor, still good lighting.



> This substrate mix (peat & kitty litter) has worked out great for me, I am using it in almost all my tanks and will keep setting up tanks with it in the future as well.


I once did a mixture with Vermicullite, Garden-Soil and Gravel, forgot about other ingredients though. It worked good for me, but I only used it in an experimental small tank. Now I´m doing a lot with mosses, H.c.Cuba, Utricularia graminifolia...

Regards,
Mark.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Very unique looking tank, I like it. It's nice to see tanks that aren't duplicates of others.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Update 2 - an interesting alga*

As promised on 7/8, here is the second update.

Our usual reaction to algae is - how do I kill it?? If you have read some of the earlier posts in this journal, you might have seen that my approach is a bit different. I actually tolerate or even like some algae. Like snails, they are part of a functioning system. A little fuzzy bundle of BBA is cute, and staghorn alga is outright beautiful to look at. If not in excess, of course.

The most beautiful memory I have from my Dads tank 30 years ago is a thick, healthy cover of hair alga on some of the petrified wood pieces he was using in his tank. It was gently swaying in the air bubbles, and I have never been able to duplicate it in my tanks.

So anyway... one day I noticed some hair algae sprouting from my substrate in various places.










It kept growing and started to form a nice carpet, interestingly only in the very first inches close to the front glass. I guess it needs a certain amount of light.










Within a couple of months, it grew to a big lush lawn, outcompeting the Marsilea and other things that were there.










Critters enjoyed their new carpet very much...










They couldn't keep up with the growth rate. Within the alga, there was a lot of micro organisms. Endlers in this tank were always picking at it.










Eventually, the carpet grew too thick, and I vacuumed it out. It did not cling much to substrate and other plants, the Marsilea looked pretty good afterwards, considering it was smothered for a while.










By now, the first little pieces are re-growing, and I welcome them.

Stay tuned for update #3.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

seems like the critters prefer youyr algae carpet more than your real plant carpet!!! it seems so neat, how did it stay this way?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Amazing! An algae carpet... who'd a thunk it?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Church, isn't that clado algae? That looks like what's in my tank now


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

*Update 3 - Flowering Crinum*

One day, something weird started to grow out of the Crinum calamistratum base.










Pretty soon I figured that this would probably turn into a flower one day.










Shortly after it reached the surface.










It didn't stop growing though, so I had to slip it through the cover glasses.










It kept growing further... I put a clear plastic bag around it to prevent it from drying out.










Eventually, the flower opened up!










The whole room smelled, very sweet, almost overwhelming...










There was a total of 5 flowers that opened in succession over the course of several weeks.










I tried to pollinate them, but found no seeds forming, maybe I didn't give them enough time.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

You know your doing it right when you see stuff like that. Well done my man.


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## Characins (Feb 4, 2008)

Wow, beautiful flowers!

Congrats, not many aquarists get to see that.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

awesome flowers! They're beauties


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

this might help :
http://forum.o-fish.com/viewtopic.php?t=17348
ignore the language, pictures speak thousands of words.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

You should try to pollinate it


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

ikuzo said:


> this might help :
> http://forum.o-fish.com/viewtopic.php?t=17348
> ignore the language, pictures speak thousands of words.


I noticed a similar swelling at the bases of the flowers, but eventually they just dried up. I think the hot and dry air close to the light fixtures doesn't help much... Next time they flower I will cover them with a bag the whole time to keep the humidity higher, we'll see what happens.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Wow, fantastic pics there, and great growing. Never thought of the baggie over the flower to keep moist.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

good luck Wasserpest. it's exciting.


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## boltp777 (Jan 16, 2009)

LOL when i was reading the story about the hair algae and the critters i immediately thought about a children's story book you would read to your kids at night lol. which is awesome you should make it in a book lol. sorry im just adding some humour to the thread but love all your tanks their amazing


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## boltp777 (Jan 16, 2009)

Same story these with this children book lol. well anyway how would you pollunate a flower? im hoping once i get my ozleot sword i am hoping that a flower will shoot out of my tank i be very happy. if this does happen i just want to learn how to keep the flower alive.


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## timme278 (Jan 1, 2009)

wow.... those flowers are amazing...

how long had you had the plant before it flowered? also do you trim the plant or just leave it?

btw love this thread


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks guys... I had the Crinum for a bit over a year when it started to grow its first flower. It has been doing that since, every two months or so a new stalk appears, each with 3 to 5 flowers that open up in sequence.

I have not been able to get them to the seed stage, they dry or foul up before that. Was hopeful because the flower basis starts to swell sometimes, but no more than that.

The big Crinum is growing little daughter plants around its base too. Not sure if the constant flowering means that it will die one day and be replaced by those daughter plants.


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## jjungle78 (Mar 23, 2009)

Wow your lawn is like the german tanks! I guess if you can't beat them, join them!


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Wasserpest,
I know this is a old thread, but I tried your method using the 1/2 inch of peat with a lot of jobes sticks. Covered this with the Stalite that I mentioned in a post on here somewhere.
I might have missed something here about Ferts.
If I am using all those Jobes, do I still want to dose with the regular E.I. method?
The trouble I am having is with a lot of cotton like algae. Maybe it is diatoms. The tanks is now maybe 10 months old. I have battled algae from the beginning. Can't get it under control. If I stop dosing all ferts for a month, it seems to stop growing. As soon as I get it cleaned up and start dosing again, it all starts coming back fast.
Could this be because of all the jobes? After 10 months I would think that the jobes would all be gone.
Any advice?
Thanks
Joe


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## dewalltheway (Jan 19, 2005)

Joetee said:


> Wasserpest,
> I know this is a old thread, but I tried your method using the 1/2 inch of peat with a lot of jobes sticks. Covered this with the Stalite that I mentioned in a post on here somewhere.
> I might have missed something here about Ferts.
> If I am using all those Jobes, do I still want to dose with the regular E.I. method?
> ...


I know I am not Wasserpest, but may I ask how your plants grow when you are not dosing? If the plants are growing fine when you don't dose and the algae goes away then the obvious answer to your problems is...don't dose.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

If you did bury the Jobes all the way down to the bottom glass, and covered them with peat and Stalite, and filled the tank extremely slowly, they will not add much/anything to the nutrient levels in the water column.

Whether you should dose EI or not depends on whether your CO2 levels are high (around 30 ppm), light levels are high, you have a nice dense established mass of plants, and you do 50% water changes weekly. If you can say yes to all four things, then EI might be the way to go.

The unknown in your situation is the Stalite. We don't know if it adds something alga-friendly to the water (silicates?) that upsets the balance and causes the cotton-like alga. That's always the risk when trying something new and unproven.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

that flower is really wonderful


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks! This tank looks now totally different. :wink:


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Wasserpest said:


> If you did bury the Jobes all the way down to the bottom glass, and covered them with peat and Stalite, and filled the tank extremely slowly, they will not add much/anything to the nutrient levels in the water column.
> 
> Whether you should dose EI or not depends on whether your CO2 levels are high (around 30 ppm), light levels are high, you have a nice dense established mass of plants, and you do 50% water changes weekly. If you can say yes to all four things, then EI might be the way to go.
> 
> The unknown in your situation is the Stalite. We don't know if it adds something alga-friendly to the water (silicates?) that upsets the balance and causes the cotton-like alga. That's always the risk when trying something new and unproven.


Without dosing, the plants seem to slow down a bit. Some keep growing well.
Here is a chemical analysis of Stalite.
http://www.stalite.com/uploads/ChemicalComposition.pdf
I don't know if the silicate levels are high or average compared to other substrates.
My C02 is above 30ppm by the drop checker color. I have about 2 wpg with a medium to large plant load.
Joe


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I really like the looks of this tank.... Looks like and island.


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## GxneFishing (Jan 7, 2012)

wasser I would like to start by saying this build thread has done nothing but inspire me to start a planted tank. I have through this over and over again so your post about helping someone from your thread, well thats me. I choose the same substrate idea you used based on I liked the looks of you r sucess and im starting at 0 with no experience in planted tanks.ive been running water through the tank for over a month clearing thee flourite and sk cloud. I can now mix things up and withing 5 hours or so its almost clear again so being happy with that I got some plants. an anubias and an amazon sword. the sword lost its tall leaves they turned yellow than brownish and just seemes to go clear. it has 9 shorter leaves but they just arent doing anything.they almost look like they are on the verge of shrivling up.
my guess was not enough light, the hood came with 2 15w t8's purple colors so I switched them out for 65oo's made the tank look alot brighter and brightened the first inch our so of the substrate but the plants seemed to not change. I planted everything to the front for now since I havent lit the back yet. 

I seen where you went t5ho with the good reflector and made out good with the LOA ballast. my t8 hood needed a new balast so rather than buying one I thought I could light the t8 with a Cfl ballast as well 13 cfl 15w light maybe it would be a bit under driven but id still have light, it didnt work. when I busted the florescent spiral I noticed the two holes where the glass was originally had some fine wires in them. did you have to connect these wires to the wries going too the bulbs? do you have a link of compatible cfl ballasts to tube lamps? in curious as in id like to do my hood with t5 and save 50 bucks on the ballast. ive searched all the hackables I could think of and found nothing. I did get aballast for the t8's its a bit more powerful than the 15w one recomended but this one was free so ill jyst over drive the lightbulbs. for the time being.
I really want t5ho and use the exhisti ng hood
but my budget if I need to buy a ballast is more in the 3 clamp light 23w cfl range. honestly I just want the correct amount of light. I got some wisteria and vals lately from someone and won a raok package from da pkant man. 
which included 
10 stems of Bacopa salzmannii (Submersed) 
1 Anubias lanceolata 
5 Bacopa monerieri 
10 Lindernia sp. 'varigated' 
3 Hygrophila difformis 'varigated'
it was more than plenty to get me going I just dont want to kill the stuff with not enough light. and since you have wxperience with this setup you help would be greatly apreciated.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Sorry for the delay in responding. 



GxneFishing said:


> wasser I would like to start by saying this build thread has done nothing but inspire me to start a planted tank. I have through this over and over again so your post about helping someone from your thread, well thats me.


That's great! I go over these journals after a couple of years and get a nice chuckle out of it.  Now I understand what you meant by discontinued - I redid this tank, it is only half-full these days. Need to update that thread with some pics that are sitting on a SD card somewhere.



GxneFishing said:


> I choose the same substrate idea you used based on I liked the looks of you r sucess and im starting at 0 with no experience in planted tanks.ive been running water through the tank for over a month clearing thee flourite and sk cloud. I can now mix things up and withing 5 hours or so its almost clear again so being happy with that I got some plants.


If you did the "1) Cap with some cleaned Flourite 2) Suck out all water to move particles down 3) Fill extremely slowly 4) Don't run filters for a day and then don't point them towards the substrate" approach it shouldn't have taken a month. Often impatience when filling the tank leads to dusty situations. 



GxneFishing said:


> an anubias and an amazon sword. the sword lost its tall leaves they turned yellow than brownish and just seemes to go clear. it has 9 shorter leaves but they just arent doing anything.they almost look like they are on the verge of shrivling up.


The tall leaves could be grown emersed (out of the water) - that's how many sword plants are grown, because they are really swamp plants, and perhaps they grow faster, don't get algae, and get CO2 out of the air that way. When you place them into your tank they will grow slightly differently shaped submersed leaves.



GxneFishing said:


> my guess was not enough light, the hood came with 2 15w t8's purple colors so I switched them out for 65oo's made the tank look alot brighter and brightened the first inch our so of the substrate but the plants seemed to not change. I planted everything to the front for now since I havent lit the back yet.


The 15W bulbs cramped into the stock hood are just not enough to grow plants successfully. Changing them to 6500K bulbs doesn't help. It does look brighter to our human eyes, but plants prefer certain spectra that might actually be better represented by the original purple bulbs.



GxneFishing said:


> I seen where you went t5ho with the good reflector and made out good with the LOA ballast. my t8 hood needed a new balast so rather than buying one I thought I could light the t8 with a Cfl ballast as well 13 cfl 15w light maybe it would be a bit under driven but id still have light, it didnt work. when I busted the florescent spiral I noticed the two holes where the glass was originally had some fine wires in them. did you have to connect these wires to the wries going too the bulbs? do you have a link of compatible cfl ballasts to tube lamps? in curious as in id like to do my hood with t5 and save 50 bucks on the ballast. ive searched all the hackables I could think of and found nothing. I did get aballast for the t8's its a bit more powerful than the 15w one recomended but this one was free so ill jyst over drive the lightbulbs. for the time being.


I really wouldn't recommend re-using the CFL ballasts. It's a cheapo solution, but it sounds like you have another ballast. Overdriving the T8's can work, it's just that for a fairly tall tank like this T5 HO work better for several reasons. You shouldn't pay $50 for a T5 ballast... There are really good ones (Fulham, Triad) for half that, and you might even find an electronic ballast (Advance, Sylvania, GE etc) that even though it is made for T8 bulbs will run T5 bulbs. That's what I am doing now on this tank - a 4x32W Advance ballast runs the two T5 bulbs a bit under-driven at 20W ea. I could add more bulbs to light up the back portion of the tank but it is all covered with emersed Anubias anyway.



GxneFishing said:


> I really want t5ho and use the exhisti ng hood
> but my budget if I need to buy a ballast is more in the 3 clamp light 23w cfl range. honestly I just want the correct amount of light. I got some wisteria and vals lately from someone and won a raok package from da pkant man.
> which included
> 10 stems of Bacopa salzmannii (Submersed)
> ...


Three clamp lights could work too, and might indeed by the cheapest working solution. What the correct amount of light is depends on other factors too, like if you are injecting CO2 and add water column fertilizers. However, plants like Swords and Anubias and the others from your list are pretty forgiving so they should be happy with CFL clamp lights, couple of overdriven T8's, or nice T5's with good reflectors.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Wow... can't believe I have not posted in this thread for 10 years. Time flies!
Looks like all the pictures are gone, thanks Photobucket!
The tank is still chugging along without any issues... producing regularly buckets of excess plants that enrich my compost.









Awesome hair algae! It has started to form good-looking pillows recently, I think because I neglected the filter sponge and the flow has decreased quite a bit.










Oooh there is even some lovely BBA! The Cherry doesn't mind at all. Usually this sort of algae goes away after a little while all by itself, especially if ignored.










Healthy Cherry mom, with an Amano in the background. I got these Amanos probably 15 years ago from some dude in LA. I can't believe how long-lived they are, just like the Nerites that I got around that same time and they are still chugging along as well.

Not much in terms of fishload, which is nice because I can leave the tank for a month or two and then come back and after a great hack job it looks good again.

Pretty balanced, overall.
View attachment 1049279
View attachment 1049280
View attachment 1049281


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

Whoa! Where has the time gone?! Have those amanos really lived that long? That is one durable shrimp. Great so see this post.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Fat Guy said:


> Whoa! Where has the time gone?! Have those amanos really lived that long? That is one durable shrimp. Great so see this post.


Thank you! Yep, I got 5 or so of the Amanos way back and had them (I think 4 now) since, they even survived a relocation from the 250gal tank. Unless they secretly found a saltwater puddle and had babies! 
I always thought of shrimp as short-lived creatures, you know, like insects maybe, but on the contrary, they have outlived many of their fish-mates.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

Wasserpest said:


> Thank you! Yep, I got 5 or so of the Amanos way back and had them (I think 4 now) since, they even survived a relocation from the 250gal tank. Unless they secretly found a saltwater puddle and had babies!
> I always thought of shrimp as short-lived creatures, you know, like insects maybe, but on the contrary, they have outlived many of their fish-mates.


That's awesome. They are great. I once found one that climbed out and crawled around thirty feet from the tank. I was able to put it back in the water before it dried out and it survived. So glad to see your update!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Fat Guy said:


> That's awesome. They are great. I once found one that climbed out and crawled around thirty feet from the tank. I was able to put it back in the water before it dried out and it survived. So glad to see your update!


Yeah they can be fun and surprising that way. Mine have never attempted to escape, as far as I can tell. I keep my tanks covered though. Used to have African Butterfly fishies who would find any openings. 



















Anubias flowering, Bolbitis taking over the tank again... had to rip out a whole bucket of them last night so the fishies can swim freely again.


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