# [Hardscape] which rocks to use?



## NeonFlux (Apr 10, 2008)

You should try river rocks. You can find pretty large ones over at PetSmart now. They are sold individually though. With those big rocks used as focal points in the tank, then you could add some medium sizes, small sizes, and sand sizes around the large ones. It'll look pretty natural with regular aquarium sand together as long as the color of the sand is natural-looking. You could also try seiryu stones, but I'm not sure if you are up to the challenge of creating nature iwagumi style arrangements of them, creating slopes, etc. Research up on that if you want the nature aquarium scape. Or if you want, just do whatever you want with seiryu stones and put them wherever you want them without incorporating iwagumi.. the stones are somewhat pretty pricey though sometimes. Good luck.


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## xquisit (Sep 2, 2014)

NeonFlux said:


> You should try river rocks. You can find pretty large ones over at PetSmart now. They are sold individually though. With those big rocks used as focal points in the tank, then you could add some medium sizes, small sizes, and sand sizes around the large ones. It'll look pretty natural with regular aquarium sand together as long as the color of the sand is natural-looking. You could also try seiryu stones, but I'm not sure if you are up to the challenge of creating nature iwagumi style arrangements of them, creating slopes, etc. Research up on that if you want the nature aquarium scape. Or if you want, just do whatever you want with seiryu stones and put them wherever you want them without incorporating iwagumi.. the stones are somewhat pretty pricey though sometimes. Good luck.


Firstly, thank you for your quick response!

To be honest, I'm not sure I want Iwagumi because I believe it is rocks with no wood. I would like to have a mix of the two.

My goal is to have 2/3 of my tank to have rocks, and the right 1/3 will have my Buddha head, some swords, and some sticks sticking upwards to simulate trees that only expose the branches underground.

I prefer to have a slop on my tank, and if I knew where I could purchase Seiryu stones I would purchase them? (Price isn't an issue, because it's a permanent focal point of my landscape.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Go to any of the rock yards and look at stone. 
Take some baggies with you and a sharpie marker. 
Take a sample of whatever rock you like (there are often broken bits under the pallet) and label the baggie. 
Take the sample home and test it. See what it does to your water. 
Put each sample in a separate jar of water, and set up one jar with no rock. 
Test GH, KH, pH and TDS when you start, then next day, and a few days later, then perhaps a week later. 
If any of these things change, then that is what the rock is going to do to your aquarium. If that is OK with the fish you want to keep, then that rock is OK in the tank. But if, for example, you want to keep soft water fish and the rocks add minerals to the water, then these are not the rocks for your tank. 

Look for rock yards using the words:
Masonry
Rock
Brick
Soil
Landscape
Bulk materials
Bark
Mulch
Stone
and any other terms that seem right. 
These are stores that sell the rock by the pound, by the bag and by the ton. Select perhaps twice as many rocks as you think are right, so you have several to work with when you start laying them out in the tank. You can practice on a towel, folded to the same size as the tank. A lot safer, in case you drop a stone while setting it in place!


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## MountainPool (Jul 13, 2014)

+1! 
Most garden centres will have a landscaping section, where the gravels and paving and things can be found. I've seen some lovely stones there, and in a big selection. 
Look out for limestone, but otherwise, its a great place to get choice, and a chance to get a feel for the shapes in a way you can't online.
I'm using the layout-on-a-towel method myself right now!

I like the sound of your scape ideas, like an overgrown temple in the jungle.


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## xquisit (Sep 2, 2014)

Diana said:


> Go to any of the rock yards and look at stone.
> Take some baggies with you and a sharpie marker.
> Take a sample of whatever rock you like (there are often broken bits under the pallet) and label the baggie.
> Take the sample home and test it. See what it does to your water.
> ...



This is an extremely helpful post, and I can't thank you enough for the suggestion!

As far as tester kits go, my tank is not cycled, and I need a link on where to buy these test kits from (if allowable).





MountainPool said:


> +1!
> Most garden centres will have a landscaping section, where the gravels and paving and things can be found. I've seen some lovely stones there, and in a big selection.
> Look out for limestone, but otherwise, its a great place to get choice, and a chance to get a feel for the shapes in a way you can't online.
> I'm using the layout-on-a-towel method myself right now!
> ...


I'm thankful someone likes the idea, but let's hope I can make it appealing to the eye!

I would like to start off with the towel method myself, and I'll definitely keep my journal updated.



For now, I suppose I should go shopping for rocks and wait for a response on the tester kits.


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## psych (Jan 7, 2013)

I wanted to chime in as I just purchased rocks locally after debating Seiryu Stone. I won't deny that Seiryu is nice but it was a bit costly for me. An individual on this forum (look in the For Sale section) was selling it for $2.50 / lb or so. 

There's a local landscaping place by my house that sells a bunch of rocks/stones, pond supplies, etc. I found a few good pieces of something they called Quartzite for .34/ lb and a few plain brown rocks for .28 / lb. Spent $10 total for a few good sized pieces. 

Regarding test kits they're readily available online and in stores. I've seen API Master Test Kits recommended though they don't test for GH or KH, would need to be purchased separately.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

Those seiryu stones are a heavily weathered limestone, depending on your water conditions, they may raise hardness and pH.

Aside from that, a lot of people have done really nice tanks with them, so it might not be an issue for you, depending on what your source water is like, what you are growing in your tank, and how often you do water changes, etc.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Here is the fishless cycle. 
It can be done with just the test strips that are available almost everywhere, but make sure you get ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The 5-way or 6-way do not include ammonia. They usually include NO2, NO3, GH, KH and pH. Some include chlorine. (I dunno why- ammonia would be more useful!) 

Get started cycling, even if the rock selection is not complete. You can start cycling some media in a bucket, just to get a good started colony going. Then, when you get the tank set up you can put that media into the filter and the rest of the cycle will go really fast. 

Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details. 

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium. 

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks. 

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water. 
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine. 
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine. 
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated. 
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful. 
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation. 
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort. 
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required. 
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different. 

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else. 
At the time this was written the right species could be found in: 
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others. 
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast. 

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though. 
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below. 

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm. 

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm. 

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm. 

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours. 

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high! 
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1b) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off. 
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better. 
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen. 
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well. 
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations. 

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.


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## xquisit (Sep 2, 2014)

Diana,

I am finally back into the hobby and never said thanks for this last post of yours.


I have decided to follow through and search for rocks and plan ahead and purchase test strips.

I hope I can chime back later with the rock I chose.


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## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

My 2 favorites are seiryu stone and dragon stone! Check em out!


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Find out what rocks are inert if you don't want the water chemistry being altered.

Ohko/Dragon stones are inert, Seiryu stones are not (will raise pH).


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## xquisit (Sep 2, 2014)

Now you two got me excited,

Are there any stores, within 50miles of los angeles, that sell Ohko or Dragon stones?


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