# Most Unimaginative Tank on Plantedtank or elsewhere



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Here it is. The story continuing from my thread here 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=260722

My 25 gal, 1st planted tank, all the way back in 2008. Thread is here:
http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2631

My DIY 45 gal thread is here:
http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4052
I read it again after a few years, i just ignored the comments  ehehe Also go to last page for good pics.

So I eventually moved to high tek, diy setup. I had two shop lights pumping 2.9 w/g in my 45 gal tank with diy co2 bottles. I was really happy as everything was growing. Then I saw that there were holes in my plants and my anabius turned white. Later on I found out nutrients were also important. So I ended up buying dry ferts and dosing EI method. 

The tank was going really well, loved it, regret not taking pics though. After a little while I got hit with the two worst things to hit a planted tank, U. gibba and Cladophora algae. I battled these two things for a whole year. They killed all my plants and destroyed my tank. In the end, through succession, my tape grass took over the tank along with clado. Both the algae and the carnivorous plant preferred healthy plant conditions meaning normal plants couldnt out compete them. Nor would high co2 or blackouts do anything. After a year I tore out the entire tank, threw out all my tape grass (buckets worth) and washed my tank and gravel in close to boiling water. I dried the gravel, threw it outside in my balcony in -10c weather for a few days and started over.

I tried scaping but it didnt work. I wanted wood and different levels of elevation. In the end I got rid of the mopani because it took up too much space and didnt look good. My lvl floor didnt work out either, Im not sure, they werent high enough and I just dont know how to do it.

So I loaded the tank with a few plants, didnt even spread them apart in the beginning. Went well and from there on forward its been like that since. My plants take over the tank and theres no space to scape. I feel bad throwing away bags of plants away. I sell them at low prices but as soon as someone hears "high light", no one bites.

So previously I used to take pics at random times. Recently, I take pics every month, I have a huge folder with mini folders for each month. My old HD crashed at lost a few months of pics.

My old setup at its prime. Dont know the name of the nice stem plant in the back left.









Old tank before teardown









New tank setup









Difference in water temperature









So it begins....









July 2011









Aug 2011









Sep 2011









Nov 2011









May 13, 2012
















throwing away buckets worth









May 27, 2012









June 17, 2012









July 1, 2012









July 30, 2012









Aug 17, 2012

















Sep 3, 2012









Sep 24, 2012

















Dec 8, 2012









Jan 1, 2013









Feb 5, 2013









Feb 15, 2013

















And a few random images from the timeline


----------



## TheRiverRat (Feb 13, 2013)

Wow, you can sure grow some plants. Jan 1, 2013 is my favorite photo straight thick with plants.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

TheRiverRat said:


> Wow, you can sure grow some plants. Jan 1, 2013 is my favorite photo straight thick with plants.


ehehe thanks. I want it like that again, except without losing species (weed plants take over killing light to others).


----------



## babydragons (Mar 14, 2012)

Beautiful!!! I wish I could get plants to go like this with out co2. I'm still working on balancing everything out. Just reduced my light and now my plants look healthy at least. I love your progression of photo's. It just proves that no matter how beautiful the tank looks it still had to get that way somehow. Lots of time and patience. I also love that you can find a few of the same plants throughout your progression. The bright red stem is amazing, the one from Feb 15. What is that one called?


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

babydragons said:


> Beautiful!!! I wish I could get plants to go like this with out co2. I'm still working on balancing everything out. Just reduced my light and now my plants look healthy at least. I love your progression of photo's. It just proves that no matter how beautiful the tank looks it still had to get that way somehow. Lots of time and patience. I also love that you can find a few of the same plants throughout your progression. The bright red stem is amazing, the one from Feb 15. What is that one called?



Thank you  The plant is Ludwigia sp. Rubin. I threw out like 10 stems last weekend. Local sale here is very slow. Shipping to US is impossible. 

There was little patience to tell you the truth, everything grows like weed. A few of my rare, high demanding plants were out compete by others and as a result perished. I really want a bigger tank, but just no space.

Without co2 Im afraid theres no way to getting beautiful plants or colour, unless you have low light plants such as anabuis, crypts and mosses. DIY co2 really isnt worth it. in the beginning I just couldnt make the jump to pressurized because of the usual cost. But once I did, man its so worth it!!! In the long run its cheaper too.


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

It looks great, but, in my personal opinion, you need more plants LOL
Pretty impressive.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

OVT said:


> It looks great, but, in my personal opinion, you need more plants LOL
> Pretty impressive.



Thanks.

You mean more species? Some plants grow fast like weed, others medium and slow. So atm Im finding the balance and throwing clippings of anyplant that takes over too much. I try to sell for dirt cheap prices but no one bites. I just want 1 proper time where the back ground is filled to the top with greens reds, medium height plants in the middle and a nice UG or HC foreground. Just once...


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

The last few months have been terrible. Its been really degrading. I got hit hard by diatoms and glue green. Past week its been alot better. Everyweekend I do the h2o2 dose before change, Ive increased my macro dosing and decreased my trace, Ive reduced lights from 9 to 8 hours, made a DIY co2 diffuser but its still not going away. Im slowly cranking up the co2. Its very annoying that theres no accurate way of telling the co2 level.

Heres a depressing pic. Its all a mess. I have a hard time clipping and planting because there are small plants everywhere on the gravel. If I place a clipping beside the plant I clipped from, it will end up blocking the light to another plant right beside it. I just want to do a total rescape. I even have a 31" manzanita wood waiting. But I dont want to put that in since the blue green and diatoms will attack it. I hate it!!! Im unsure whats the cause. Ive had this same setup with nothing changed for over a year yet this problem just started all of a sudden.

Whats really pissing me off is that the aromatica isnt turning red. Meaning something is off. How can co2 be that big of a factor? Everyone has a co2 indicator which isnt that great, yet they get brilliant colours...


----------



## 10gallonplanted (Oct 31, 2010)

I Love your tank man. Especially July 2011. A few plants can sure go a long way!


----------



## Knotyoureality (Aug 3, 2012)

And this is why I love my medium-tech tank. I get a lush growth without being a slave to the pruning process or the constant frustration of balancing C02 and ferts. 

And while I might not have bright reds, I still have a staggering array of plant textures and colors from deep bronzes to emerald greens, bright yellows and soft blushes of pinks and corals.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

10gallonplanted said:


> I Love your tank man. Especially July 2011. A few plants can sure go a long way!


Thanks, the Ammannia Garcilis just took over. Im glad I found a buyer and sold all but 1 stem. Ive been selling it consistently, I love it. Its easy to grow, RED AND PINKISH and will occupy whatever space you give it. It will grow small and compact in tight spaces, big, fat and lush in open. 

Looking back at these picks I just wish I didnt have algae like back then. Its been so bad recently. I have a thick film on top of my tank too, its so thick that my skimmer cant even break it. Nothings changed since I took these pics. I have not added any wood or sand. Maybe its because of the chelated iron Im adding with Trace?


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

It seems that my diatom and bga are receding, but they are still pretty bad. 45% of my front glass gets covered with dia and then bga within 7 days. MY plants have been growing pretty fast so the algae has not had a chance to attach itself. the slow growing leaves though, stand no chance  Im getting fed up with this. These two things have been taking over for 2 or so months now. Im thinking its the bulbs.

Clipped lots of dd and 2 stems of aromatica. Its pissing me off, the aro is boring green. When I had normal T8s, it was slight yellow with purple undersides.



































Used a new method to take pics


















Played around with settings in photoshop


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Heres an update. Just did water change so water a lil cloudy. I moved all the tall stem plants to the back. The problem is, I have no space to put the clippings even though there seems to be space. On top of that, I have 1 or 2 slow growing stem plants that are in the shadow and will perish. I dont want to move them forward because its a high water flow area. Plus, theres grass and other foreground plants. atm it looks messy, Im waiting till next week, hopefully it looks better.


Crappy pics, I might try taking pics in the evening with a dark room.

Also, Im experimenting with the emersed setup as well. Got indica/rodufolia and DHG. I put a crypt and Ludwigia senegalensis into the same container, they dried out. I think the crypt might survive. I seriously need a big container now that I know my setup somewhat works.











































Replies of any kind would help.


----------



## Aquaticus (Jan 7, 2013)

Any updates?


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Aquaticus said:


> Any updates?


I should have a big juicy update tomorrow. Ill take pics after my water change. My entire front glass is covered with diatoms and BGA. In about 5 to 7 days, they cover my front glass. Its been going on for months. Even so my plants are growing all loco.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

HUGE BLOG POST!!!! Im going to try my best getting all the pics in order. Uploading them will take 15 minutes alone. Im very tired because I spent the whole day in the hot balcony and rain doing my succulent DIY project. Not to mention my 2 hour tank maintenance/water change today. Check my hens and chick thread in my sig.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pics cover tank growth from May 6 to June 3rd, 2013.


So here it is, I leave the tank for 2 weeks and it becomes a jungle. The pics dont do justice. Its alot more than the pics show. I also hate how fast the diatom and bga grow. They get on some of my plants too. Im still trying to figure out what the hell is causing this. I did a major water change and prune, made a bucket load of clippings. Im still trying to sell them, but no ones biting. So Im going to end up garbaging them. EDIT: they went to garbage before water change. Theres just no demand up here in Toronto. Shipping here is too expensive. I went to Canada post and their rate for a medium box is $14 and shipping will take 4 to 5 days (I quoted for BC since I had people showing interest from there). 


In all this jungly mess I took a heavy loss. I lost my most favourite plant, Ludwigia senegalensis (I JUST FOUND 1 STEM STILL ALIVE YESSSSS!!). I had good 4 to 5 tall stems of them. But against other quick growing plants they were not fast enough. They came under shade and just disappeared. I was shocked, like they really did disappear. They were right in the middle left of the tank, I cant find them anymore. Dam. I also lost a very rare Ludwigia (pilosa) SPHAEROCARPA. I had 2 good flourishing stems and they were my biggest investment returners  I could sell them for $10 easy. But both disappeared as well. I also lost the rarest plant Ive ever had, even rare in terms of PTF, the Ludwigia cf. suffruticosa. It was growing fast as well. Im so sad and disappointed by this. Im happy plants are growing, but I just hate it how big of a difference it is in the growth rate. There have been too many rare species Ive lost over the month. Ive spent some $200 on plants alone from PTF in the past few months. I almost lost the Rotala Macranda 'Japan Red'. But Im really happy I planted a stem in the open before leaving for vacation. Its in rough shape but survived and is growing well in light.

I wonder if anyone even reads this.

My Plan now is:

Get rid of all the plants on the left side. Its a jungle of everything and it looks messy. I dont like it. I think Im going to get rid of Staurogyne Bihar, Ludwigia sp. Rubin and another yellowish plant I dont know the name of. These guys get too big and take up all the space to scape. So Im getting rid of them. I love the rubin. It has amazing colours. Dark blood reds to brilliant purple. I love it. But it grows too dam fast and worst of all, leaves get toooo big.

The next step is to get rid of dwarf sag. Thats an annoying plant. Half a year ago I sold it all and somehow a small piece still stayed. Now its growing like a weed. I also need to get rid of my staurogyne repens. Ive decided I want a DHG carpet. With these 2 plants gone, I can have some space to plant the dhg everywhere.


May 6, 2013









May 12, 2013








Big pic, click to expand.









May 14, 2013









May 27, 2013. After I return from vacation.









Removed algae from glass

























After hack and slash









Selling the clippings.

















May 30, 2013 (not sure if right date, maybe missplaced pic.)









Jun 2, 2013 Today









































Butterfly, they were in shade and took damage. They are growing well now.

















I would love it if Tom Barr or CrazyDaz comment here. Although Im ashamed of my tank conditions.


----------



## Aquaticus (Jan 7, 2013)

Great photo journal. I feel the same about dwarf sag. It is slowly taking over all of my tanks, and I think I'll eventually have to tear it down if I want to get rid of it.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Aquaticus said:


> Great photo journal. I feel the same about dwarf sag. It is slowly taking over all of my tanks, and I think I'll eventually have to tear it down if I want to get rid of it.


Yea, I think its a good plant for low light tanks. I never thought of it as a low light plant since its used as a mid to low cover in tanks.

My Barclaya Longifolia finally show out new leaves. It hasnt budged in over 6 months!!!!!

Also what a day, they terminated my contract at work, business lower than usual. Dam.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Want to get rid of the entire left side of the tank.


----------



## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

I'd suggest you take th left part out and fill it with one kind of plant like some kind of rotala.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

> Want to get rid of the entire left side of the tank.





sumer said:


> I'd suggest you take th left part out and fill it with one kind of plant like some kind of rotala.


:icon_lol: Yes I want to get rid of that section, too much of a mess. Im selling everything in that section for a messily $10, but no ones biting (posting in Toronto, Canada).


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Im still in the process of getting rid of the left side.

Pics dont do the plant colours justice. 

June ~11, 2013


















June 20, 2013

From left to right its Rotala Mini Butterfly, Rotala Macranda 'Japan Red' and Rotala sp 'H ra'. They are alot more vibrant in rl than pic.


----------



## Jahn (Apr 26, 2013)

the right side is definitely more organized looking, but the latest pics make it look like it's already time for a trimming again. man your plants grow like mad! june 11 looks good but june 20 looks overrun - only 9 days can do that? sheesh!


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Jahn said:


> the right side is definitely more organized looking, but the latest pics make it look like it's already time for a trimming again. man your plants grow like mad! june 11 looks good but june 20 looks overrun - only 9 days can do that? sheesh!



 Yea its pretty quick. Before this I took pics of June 2nd, man does it look empty. Yea I really like the right side, Im going to snip and plant, its much easier to deal with them than the left side. Plants in the left side are weedy and they range from BIG to small plants. The middle I like as well, but I need to do alot of trimming. Not to mention I want to get rid of that dwarf sag.....its gonna be a pain taking them out without uprooting dhg


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Sold a massive about of plants, I ended up giving 3 bags of plants for free!!! Now the tank will be left alone for 2 weeks (visiting US for the long weekend).

Heres how it looks like today. I did the big clean up past Sunday. Bad pic, I know.

So the left most side, its empty. I planted clippings of H'ra, butterfly and japan red. I really hope they grow nice colours. The flow in the tank is great, a little strong on the front side.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

UPDATE!!!

Going to Detroit this weekend so no water changes. I have been doing 2 per week. Im trying my best to keep it at 2 or more. I really hope bga and diatoms die off. I still need to rearrange the middle as the same reds are on the right and left. I will move them together. I need to part out the diandra and aromatica as they are growing in one area. I was thinking of moving my blyxa to the far right front side and more the powerhead up (I really want those magnetic ones! if someone can sell me a used one.) and plant the reinecki mini to the far left front side. It needs light and thats a good spot. But I have too many plants there now. Dang. Gotta sell them off.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

Sweeeeeeeeeet set ups what light system/systems where u useing?
And also did u use the same substrate in all the tanks?



samee said:


> Here it is. The story continuing from my thread here
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=260722
> 
> My 25 gal, 1st planted tank, all the way back in 2008. Thread is here:
> ...


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

ehehehe thanks

Can you believe it that its just one tank over the course of several months? Same substrate and everything else. Im using 2 shop light T8s. Nothing fancy either  I will be getting LEDs soon though.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

So just to recap, pic from July 3, 2013.










Now heres the tank July 14, 2013


























After trim










I know it looks ugly. I need lessons on how to scape. 

All of this is thanks to two T8 shop lights. Ill be getting LEDs cranking 150+ PAR at the substrate. I really hope the colours come out then but Im worried about algae.


AGAIN, July 3rd to July 14


----------



## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

As long as you maintain a high enough c02 level you should not have a problem with more light, the stem plants will love it.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

synaethetic said:


> As long as you maintain a high enough c02 level you should not have a problem with more light, the stem plants will love it.


Thanks, I have a ph co2 controller and my ph is maintained but I still have bga and diatoms/gda. Ive had these for half a year now. Im trying to do water changes every 3 days to see if a cleaner tank improves the condition. My bros tank on the other hand is way dirtier than mine, irregular dosing and co2 yet his tank is soo clean. hes so fortunate.


----------



## Jessicafish (Jul 13, 2013)

Nice tank!! I love the bright red plants! they had a nice touch of color! The only thing I suggest is a background! Black or Blue are the best for showing off plant colors!


----------



## drewsuf82 (May 27, 2012)

Beautiful Journal!


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks guys.

I keep forgetting or get lazy when it comes to background. Ive really been wanting to do a black background but I dont want to paint. Im trying to find something thats black, like a garbage bag, but it wont be easy. Im worried the best background will be paint.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Wow, impressive growing skills. Sometimes it's more impressive to see massive amounts of healthy plants than having a great scape.

I do think with some simple planning of where you plant and more trimming you could come up with a beautiful dutch/garden style tank. I am guessing you probably sell a lot of plants though so it wouldn't be the best plan. Takes a lot of minor trimming quite often, not the hacking you do if you just want to grow and sell plants.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Yea I usually put a few stems up for sale and end up giving a bag full away. I think I need to reduce the plant species so I can manage easier. I have given each specie its own space, but the fast and different growth of each specie has made it really hard. My Rotala H ra is a really nice plant, but some stems are growing horizontally and some vertical, so it doesn't look nice. I have to trim and plant them more dense. Im trying and slowly getting there. Im going to be selling a few plants, hopefully that will make space for the new plants I got. I want to settle everything in their spot first, then tackle on how to trim and make a dense bunch.

Ive had the repens for sale for a long time, its a good amount but no ones biting. I cant throw it away can I?


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Its actually alot more vivd/better looking than the pic


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

New blog post!!! Even though no one bothers to comment. Atleast these pics will stay on the net incase my laptop blows up and I have no pics left.

I usually take pics on Sundays after my water change, but I couldnt wait.

Im getting a magnetic pump and soon LED fixture. atm, I have T8s and there really is no need to upgrade.

My blyxa is going red. Yes, red!! Ive been over dosing on EI, yea you heard it. My current mixture is messed up and need to make a new one. So Im dosing alot to finish it soon. Plants have been changing colour a lil since a week ago.

My rotala butterflys transformed to Rotala Mac Green. Half way to the top they turn back to red butterfly. Its really hard to take pics of these guys.

Blyxa and others for sale!!


----------



## garloki72 (Oct 31, 2010)

Im so in love with your tank! Do you have any livestock in there?


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

garloki72 said:


> Im so in love with your tank! Do you have any livestock in there?


Thank you 

My live stock is 1 SAE and 1 OTO. Thats it. Didnt want to keep fish because I was new with co2, didnt want to gas them. Now that I have a ph co2 controller, its not a problem, but there is no space in tank to have them. Not to mention I need all the space when Im clipping the plants and moving stuff.

I love shrimps and I want them greatly, but they are soo annoying and dumb as they want to go into filters and power heads.


----------



## gt turbo (Sep 13, 2012)

I was wondering the same thing about livestock cause I'm not seeing any. 

Anyway, this is the first time I'm seeing this journal and the truth is, it's fantastic. Before you can have and maintain a beautiful scape, you have to get plants to grow, clearly you have or are mastering this. Now you have a clear view/idea of how the specific plants grow, you can now effectively plan your scape using a classic style or something all of your own imagining.

Good luck with your scaping.roud:


----------



## bennyjam (Nov 6, 2012)

Tank is looking good! Is that dwarf hair grass in the foreground?


----------



## Tvadna (Jan 17, 2013)

samee said:


> New blog post!!! Even though no one bothers to comment. Atleast these pics will stay on the net incase my laptop blows up and I have no pics left.
> 
> My blyxa is going red. Yes, red!! Ive been over dosing on EI, yea you heard it. My current mixture is messed up and need to make a new one. So Im dosing alot to finish it soon. Plants have been changing colour a lil since a week ago.


I had to check out your journal to see the blyxa after you posted on my blyxa jap. page. I'm starting to see the red in yours also. You should take the same picture in a few ore days so we can see the difference. 
I may have figured out the blyxa too. I'll post what I've done and a picture to show you a really red one back there so I don't hijack.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

bennyjam said:


> Tank is looking good! Is that dwarf hair grass in the foreground?


Thanks everyone 

Yes thats dgh, in the middle is repens. Ive been trying to sell the repens but no one wants it  since it has no space to grow, its growing upwards.

Ill be getting LEDs in a week. Im hoping the colour gets redder then. If I see more colour changes in the blyxa, Ill post for sure. I have to post the pics of the flowers right?


----------



## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

hi samee,

looking forward to your take on the led lights. i saw your post on bml. you certainly have a knack for growing healthy, thick plants- mean this as a compliment!

thanks,


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

trailsnale said:


> hi samee,
> 
> looking forward to your take on the led lights. i saw your post on bml. you certainly have a knack for growing healthy, thick plants- mean this as a compliment!
> 
> thanks,


Hey there, thanks.

I just put on my LED fixture,

*I regret it*

I wanted to cry. I put on the fixture and half the tank is dark...What a waste of almost $300. Now I put on one of my T8s back. Here are the pics

I had C deficiency so many of my plants have washed out colours. My blyxa isnt red but an ugly brown now. Many plants took a toll. 

Two T8s









LED









So how are the high light plants suppose to grow in the back side?

















LED and a T8










I lifted the LED and tried to get to a point where the whole tank is iluminated. Didnt work, the light fades out quick since its at 90 degrees. I designed this by the help of Nick, who knew all the conditions. He didnt tell my half my tank would be in the dark. Just yesterday I read why Tom Barr and the other pros dont use LEDs. 

Dam..


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

Looks like u need two of the LED set ups. Stick with either T8s or T5HO.
IMHO the front looks good and lit up more than with the old set up, so u can also put the LEDs on back and T8s on front or visea versa that looks great like that an from tha front it doesn't even look cluttered. Nice!



samee said:


> Hey there, thanks.
> 
> I just put on my LED fixture,
> 
> ...


----------



## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

sorry to hear this... bml was my leading choice for a deep tank too.

your tank is amazing anyway!!!!


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

samee said:


> Hey there, thanks.
> 
> I just put on my LED fixture,
> 
> ...


Just curious if you had issues with the center brace with LED's as well. My friend recently went LED and we didn't account for that. They had optics on them however.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

trailsnale said:


> sorry to hear this... bml was my leading choice for a deep tank too.
> 
> your tank is amazing anyway!!!!



Well it gives out crazy PAR, I was told around 150 at the substrate for mine. I think if you hang it and have a more concentrated beam angle, you can do it. But it seems that the tank wont be as bright.

talontsiawd even with the centre brace there was no shadowing. I had very little with T8s and did not notice with LED.

With LEDs, they only work if you hang them or have a wide unit. Unfortunately, I just learned that the hard way. I just trusted Nick too much and he nor anyone else mentioned anything like this.

It does not come with the tank mount either. They did include things for when you want to hang the fixture.


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Bummer on the light :-(
But the tank is gorgeous!

Edit: @samee, what did you read on LEDs? Thx.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


----------



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

samee said:


> Well it gives out crazy PAR, I was told around 150 at the substrate for mine. I think if you hang it and have a more concentrated beam angle, you can do it. But it seems that the tank wont be as bright.
> 
> talontsiawd even with the centre brace there was no shadowing. I had very little with T8s and did not notice with LED.
> 
> ...


Is it possible to install different optics on the fixture? 60deg optics and hanging a good foot above the water might get you coverage front to back without sacrificing much PAR.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

OVT said:


> Bummer on the light :-(
> But the tank is gorgeous!
> 
> Edit: @samee, what did you read on LEDs? Thx.
> ...


I didnt read much. All I know is that they are directional and have a beam like effect. I saw a par chart/image showing the PAR through out the width of a tank. The highest being in the middle and dropping off to the sides. There was still par at the ends of the tank (front and back, 12" wide tank, which my tank is also). So I assumed, visually, there should not be that much of a difference btw the middle and the ends. What Im seeing is a very noticeable difference. This is why I made sure to ask them that I would be placing this on my tank. If they knew it would be like this, they shouldve told me that hanging the lights is the only solution and if I chose to place it on the tank, there would be dark areas. I was willing to sacrifice and hang the fixture had I known.

I checked out alot of tanks with leds but all were hung and not placed on the aquarium. I shouldve questioned that :icon_sad: Oh well, its a learning experience. 

I fixed the problem with my previous T8, the waiting game starts of how the increase in par will effect my plants. If there is a difference, I will be making a thread comparing the diff. of plant growth in t8s vs leds.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Its a very complicated mess. I stare at the tank alot these days and Im not happy. Theres just too many plant species. My rotala type 2 seem to be struggling because they are in shade at times and in moderate water flow. I think its the water flow thats giving them the hard time. I still have gsa or diatoms on some of the leaves, which I hate, but its much less than before.

I got rid of almost all my mac green from the left side. This weekend Im going to get rid of the right most side. All the h ra and mac green will be gone. Im only keeping mini butterfly there. The aromatica have been trimmed alot. I have to place the nesea to the back. The front left is a small mess, I have no space for all the sp india growing on the front right. The filter output is top left which is a pain because the india and plants on the left sway like crazy and get algae due to the high flow. So I think Im going to switch to a nozzle. I got rid of the repens that were right in the middle of the tank. The bottom left and right side of the tank will be reinki.. mini only. I hope that makes a good effect. It will take a while for them to fill in. I just need to make a barrier for dgh from spreading anymore. 

The thing that worries me now is, Im getting rid of ALOT of plant matter, I need to replace it with something or else chances of algae increase. I already gave away 50+ stems of mac green. Theres like 50 to 100 stems of h ra and mac green on the right that I want to get rid off......its gonna be a long day of maintenance.

Heres how it looked like a few days ago. Its the most dense and organized I have been since the beginning. Standby for pics on Monday, its gonna look empty.











EDIT: Oh, I sold my blyxa, it was a monster at around 8 to 10". I kept only two stalks, I think one is the one flowering. It was taking too much space


----------



## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

are you attributing this to your new leds? or just wanting to rescape w/ fewer types?

thanks,


----------



## peachii (Jun 1, 2013)

Just wanted to tell you I've been watching this thread for months now, and although my latest tank is a 10 gallon this tank was a huge inspiration to -try- to attempt to scape my tank. It is of course no where near this without Co2 but i have enjoyed both your journal and your pictures greatly.

I'm sure anything you do with your tank will grow in and look very, very good with time.


----------



## PapaBear (Jun 30, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your experience in LEDs. Its a bit complicated and the many literature out there with all the options and configurations isn't helping one bit. 

Your plants obviously love the tank environment. Those are fast growing plants and the crazy pearling the plants are doing shows a happy exchange of CO2 and Oxygen in the tank.

How long do you have your lights on? In my experience, leaving the lights on too long sometimes cause the algae outbreak. Shrimps would take care of them but yeah, they are stubborn to say the least and just love getting into places where they should not be going LOL.

Thanks for the effort in posting pics. Great blow-by-blow accounts. Really enjoyed looking through all of them.

Cheers!


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Thank you everyone  Its really great when people post in this thread, makes me feel that Im not talking to myself 


trailsnale nothing to do with the led. Just with scaping. I had a mindset that I wanted to grow all the rare plants possible. I did, for the most part. It was cut throat in my tank. I lost alot of rare plants that I paid $15 a puny stem for. They were slow growing, high requirement and my other plants just grew and took over and shaded them. Now, Im trying to scape, its slowly looking better but I still need to learn the art to prune.

peachii that says alot! wow, thanks  Im glad you find it that way. If I ever get the chance to start a bigger tank, I want to do something like Destiny, 2008. I just love the way he made the driftwood. The plant selection is very simple. Yes co2 is the key though. I was hesitant to buy a pressurized co2 before, I was not sure if I was serious enough. But then everyday I used to look at the pics of peoples tank which pushed me finally to invest  Its soooo worth it vs the diy coke bottle co2.

PapaBear yea its not easy about led, one thing I regret is not going to a fish store and in person, checking them out. Ask around too. My lights are on only 8 hours. Before I used to do 4 hours on, 1 hour off and 4 hours on again. It kept the algae away. But ever since the pressurized co2, I have not bothered.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

If I could get my tanks to look this good an clean I would be happy for a few months then I would change it, it stinks u can't have to many tanks cuz of all the different scapes u can do. 






samee said:


> Its a very complicated mess. I stare at the tank alot these days and Im not happy. Theres just too many plant species. My rotala type 2 seem to be struggling because they are in shade at times and in moderate water flow. I think its the water flow thats giving them the hard time. I still have gsa or diatoms on some of the leaves, which I hate, but its much less than before.
> 
> I got rid of almost all my mac green from the left side. This weekend Im going to get rid of the right most side. All the h ra and mac green will be gone. Im only keeping mini butterfly there. The aromatica have been trimmed alot. I have to place the nesea to the back. The front left is a small mess, I have no space for all the sp india growing on the front right. The filter output is top left which is a pain because the india and plants on the left sway like crazy and get algae due to the high flow. So I think Im going to switch to a nozzle. I got rid of the repens that were right in the middle of the tank. The bottom left and right side of the tank will be reinki.. mini only. I hope that makes a good effect. It will take a while for them to fill in. I just need to make a barrier for dgh from spreading anymore.
> 
> ...


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

newbieplanter said:


> If I could get my tanks to look this good an clean I would be happy for a few months then I would change it, it stinks u can't have to many tanks cuz of all the different scapes u can do.



 Id love to have more tanks, but I cant imagine doing maintenance on all of them. I have diatoms and gsa in my tank, which I hate!! So its not entirely clean, Ill be very happy when I get rid of them.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

It looks dry and boring. I have to let the aromatica grow so all the ugly thick stems I have, I can get rid off. 

The right side is short clippings of true mini butterfly and mac japan red. Lets see how it goes.

Does anyone know how I should scape the ludwig?



















I took out prolly over a 100 stems of rotala h ra and mac green, out it on sale for $15 but no one seems interested atm.


----------



## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

newbieplanter said:


> Looks like u need two of the LED set ups. Stick with either T8s or T5HO.
> IMHO the front looks good and lit up more than with the old set up, so u can also put the LEDs on back and T8s on front or visea versa that looks great like that an from tha front it doesn't even look cluttered. Nice!


Sorry about your experience. Yeah it looks as if you needed two LED fixtures so the beams would over lap and cover the entire front to back then use the dimmer to reduce that much power. I purchased (4) strips for my 135gal to spread the light. I get great growth out of them. I didn't get the dimmer as I'm waiting for an autodimmer w/ sun-up / sun-down capability so I had to raise my fixtures. I just built a DIY shelf to hang them from as opposed to buying their hanging kit.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

jfynyson said:


> Sorry about your experience. Yeah it looks as if you needed two LED fixtures so the beams would over lap and cover the entire front to back then use the dimmer to reduce that much power. I purchased (4) strips for my 135gal to spread the light. I get great growth out of them. I didn't get the dimmer as I'm waiting for an autodimmer w/ sun-up / sun-down capability so I had to raise my fixtures. I just built a DIY shelf to hang them from as opposed to buying their hanging kit.



In the future, I think I will go diy. I really like the huge fixtures that cover the entire tank top and have fans on the side  Not into the thin fixtures, they just look ugly. But leds are made to hang because of the spread, if you are going to put it over your tank, forget it.

Id like to see your tank journal, its a huge tank! Maintenance must be tiring.


----------



## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

I do not have a tank journal but rather profile pics that keep updating.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 4


----------



## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

Tank maintenance is not bad now that I'm getting it dialed in algae-wise. Once a week...tonight, WC and it now takes about 1-2 hrs depends on how much trimming I wanna do..

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 4


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

jfynyson said:


> Tank maintenance is not bad now that I'm getting it dialed in algae-wise. Once a week...tonight, WC and it now takes about 1-2 hrs depends on how much trimming I wanna do..
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 4



Not too bad, but the amount of water you have to take out, the amount of nutrients and stuff. I guess the time will only increase the more dense your plants get.


----------



## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm on well water so I don't worry about adding water conditioners. I scrape the glass & scrub equipment as needed, hook the Python hose from my tank to my mop-bucket sink faucet & go. 

As far as ferts go it takes only ~2min / wk to weigh out all of the dry ferts. I use the attached daily pill organizer to put the macros & micros. I now use an old clear glass mason or spaghetti jar instead of the bottles in the photo. That way I can see to ensure full dissolution. It takes less than 1min / day to dissolve that day's dose...I transfer the pre measured ferts into a jar of hot water (invert jar a few times & create a vortex by shaking then let it sit & in 1min all dissolved). It takes 5 sec per day to dose. Once every couple months I'll pop in some root ferts while draining the tank.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

hm must be alot of ferts, around 3 times my amount. Same goes for the amount of weekly water change. Id love to have a tank upto 120 gallon but as long its of a height where I can put my hand in and touch the gravel I love depth way more than height.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Boring update. Will be selling my dgh soon. Wanted to go UG but I keep hearing EI dosing will kill UG.....But others keep it with EI successfully, so I have no idea what to do. atm I have HC floating so I will plant that.










D. Diandra. You can see the diff. LED colours reflecting. Ugly! If you ever go LED, hang the dam thing.


----------



## garloki72 (Oct 31, 2010)

Looking great as always!


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

garloki72 said:


> Looking great as always!


Thanks. I sold all my dgh today, felt sad giving it away but happy at the same time. I bought HC a while ago but didnt have space, so I let it float. It ended up becoming a big blob. At the same time dgh was getting really annoying. Doing a hair cut on this is terrible. You cant catch everything with the fishing net since their thickness is smaller. So alot float around and attach to the glass. Even after taking out water and using my hands to take the needles down, theres still many left. Which end up decomposing and probably screwing up my water parameters. So I got rid of them.

I really wanted to grow UG, but it seems to be the hardest foreground to grow. So I guess atm Im stuck with HC, its my first carpeting plant and my original love  Wouldnt mind another carpet. Although the leaves are really small while the stem plants I have have large leaves. So the contrast seems off, but then again my tanks a mess.


----------



## glndrifts (Jun 8, 2010)

your plant growth is awesome. I had a hard time getting the didiplis diandra to turn red.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

glndrifts said:


> your plant growth is awesome. I had a hard time getting the didiplis diandra to turn red.



Thanks, I had it going red the same as now (its not THAT red but Im hoping to get it there) with T8s. All you need is medium to high light, EI dosing and good co2. The hardest part for me is to keep the tank tidy and clean, which it isnt. Which is prolly the main reason Im geting algae. The gravel has alot of crud in it which I take out at every water change.


----------



## glndrifts (Jun 8, 2010)

Do you vacuum the substrate? How often do you do that? If I would've seen that $15 trim package I would've been right on that. I wouldn't know what is do with the other 90+ stems though.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

glndrifts said:


> Do you vacuum the substrate? How often do you do that? If I would've seen that $15 trim package I would've been right on that. I wouldn't know what is do with the other 90+ stems though.



I cant vacuum because all of the gravel area is occupied by some sort of plant, small to large. Even the areas you see free in the pic are covered by tiny stems of plants I salvaged. I also done have the proper extension to suck the gravel. So I just wave my hand and suck the debris. I feel Im headed towards a cleaner tank, but its hard to say.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

glndrifts said:


> Do you vacuum the substrate? How often do you do that? If I would've seen that $15 trim package I would've been right on that. I wouldn't know what is do with the other 90+ stems though.


I'm still trying to figure out how to vac a substrate with dirt an sand I hear/read people do it but as far as me doing it noooooo way all I do is stir the sub as best as I can with tha vac hose an suc up as much crap as I can every water change and that's once a week 50% but I'm gonna bump it up to every other day an cut back to 20-30% for a bit just to see if it makes a difference for the environment in my tank.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Did a 80 to 100% water change today. Picked up all the floating crap and debris from the substrate. Ive noticed an increase in gsa or whatever the slimy algae is on the leaves. My bio load is much lower than before. Im tired of seeing this dam gsa/bga algae. I dont know whats wrong....


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

samee said:


> Did a 80 to 100% water change today. Picked up all the floating crap and debris from the substrate. Ive noticed an increase in gsa or whatever the slimy algae is on the leaves. My bio load is much lower than before. Im tired of seeing this dam gsa/bga algae. I dont know whats wrong....


Did u take your fish out of the tank.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

newbieplanter said:


> Did u take your fish out of the tank.




No, I took out 40 to 50% water first, filled in with new water. Saw there was still debris at the bottom, so took out another 40 to 50%. Sure theres new water added to it so Im not sure what to call the water change. There is only one fish, the Sae.


----------



## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

samee said:


> Wanted to go UG but I keep hearing EI dosing will kill UG.....But others keep it with EI successfully, so I have no idea what to do.





samee said:


> I really wanted to grow UG, but it seems to be the hardest foreground to grow. So I guess atm Im stuck with HC, its my first carpeting plant and my original love  Wouldnt mind another carpet.


EI dosing definitely does not kill UG. I have high light, CO2, EI dosing (50% weekly water changes), and aquasoil, and it absolutely thrives in my tank (the 60cm one in my journal). Also, you have a nice tank. I wouldn't call it boring or unimaginative. 

This is just less than 2 months of growth:










It started like this:


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

AnotherHobby said:


> EI dosing definitely does not kill UG. I have high light, CO2, EI dosing (50% weekly water changes), and aquasoil, and it absolutely thrives in my tank (the 60cm one in my journal). Also, you have a nice tank. I wouldn't call it boring or unimaginative.
> ...



Thank you sooooooo much, finally a comment from someone who actually has it and is dosing. Thanks! It gives me hope. atm Ive already planted all the HC I had floating, so till the time I find someone selling their entire carpet/change of scape, Ill keep the HC. Your carpet looks great. Do you have to snip/trim every week?

Thanks for the comment, Im having a very hard time scaping with some of the plants. They just arent the bushy type. Im also getting blue green/gsa on my plant leafs. Very annoying, plants are growing wonderfully but the algae just does not want to go.

Heres a pic of my diandra, note how big a role the LED colour/temp plays. 










I edited this pic but still couldnt get the real colours. Its literally glowing, it hurts your eye, thats how pink and bright it is. Its maybe 2 cm under my led lights.


----------



## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

samee said:


> Your carpet looks great. Do you have to snip/trim every week?


I trimmed it last week on Saturday for the first time, and I only took down maybe 1/2" or so. It's super dense though — feels like thick plush shag carpet. I have to trim my stem plants and my hydrocotyle weekly, so it's no big deal to do this at the same time if I have to. It was super easy to trim by just holding my aqueon water changer next to the scissors as I trimmed, and it just sucked out all of the clippings. Mess free!


----------



## glndrifts (Jun 8, 2010)

That was my main issue with UG, it getting too thick. theres no pretty way to thin it out either. it will grow on top of itself if you don't. But its still one of my favorites. I also grew it with ei. I'm still very jealous of that diandra.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

AnotherHobby said:


> I trimmed it last week on Saturday for the first time, and I only took down maybe 1/2" or so. It's super dense though — feels like thick plush shag carpet. I have to trim my stem plants and my hydrocotyle weekly, so it's no big deal to do this at the same time if I have to. It was super easy to trim by just holding my aqueon water changer next to the scissors as I trimmed, and it just sucked out all of the clippings. Mess free!


Thats good, I know it will be exactly like DGH but a little less annoying. I used to use a fishing net to catch all the needles that I used to trim. The darn things went right through the net. With UG Im hoping since its a little more wide, that wont be a problem.



glndrifts said:


> That was my main issue with UG, it getting too thick. theres no pretty way to thin it out either. it will grow on top of itself if you don't. But its still one of my favorites. I also grew it with ei. I'm still very jealous of that diandra.


If theres too much, ship some my way  That diandra still has a long way to go  Ill be happy when the reds are uniform.


----------



## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

samee said:


> Thats good, I know it will be exactly like DGH but a little less annoying. I used to use a fishing net to catch all the needles that I used to trim. The darn things went right through the net. With UG Im hoping since its a little more wide, that wont be a problem.


If you use the cheap little super fine white nets, it'll have no problem catching all of your UG.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

AnotherHobby said:


> If you use the cheap little super fine white nets, it'll have no problem catching all of your UG.


Now I remember, I bought a butterfly net from a $ store many years ago, I think that might be fine enough...but I have HC now 

Also, did water test and what a shocker!!

Phosphates are 1 ppm
Nitrates are 0 ppm

This means algae right? Not enough nutrients for the plants!!! 

I made a new EI water batch and happened is, I made a 2 L solution. I then divided the solution into 500 ml bottles. As I kept dosing from the bottle, the nutrients settled down. Even when I shook it violently, it would not dissolve. In the 2L solution everything dissolved. So I think thats the problem. Ive been dosing the mush like macros about a teaspoon during dosing. It should still be enough though. Trace solution is completely fine. 

My macro solution is,

In 1 L of DI water mix:

94 g of K2SO4 (6 tablesp)

24 g of KH2PO4 (2 table)

111g of KNO3 (8 table)

I dose 20 ml each time.

I used the calculator for this too, did I mess it up?


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Its a mess but I have plans for the left side of the tank.


----------



## zodduska (Aug 14, 2013)

samee said:


> Now I remember, I bought a butterfly net from a $ store many years ago, I think that might be fine enough...but I have HC now
> 
> Also, did water test and what a shocker!!
> 
> ...


K2SO4 has a hard time dissolving in small amounts of water, use http://rota.la/en/ to calculate the right amount and solutions, it'll warn you if there's not enough water for it to fully dissolve. Personally for this reason I just skip the extra potassium and use KNO3 and KH2PO4, not sure if that's generally accepted but everything is growing fine.

Love your tank by the way, its like a chameleon.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

zodduska said:


> K2SO4 has a hard time dissolving in small amounts of water, use http://rota.la/en/ to calculate the right amount and solutions, it'll warn you if there's not enough water for it to fully dissolve. Personally for this reason I just skip the extra potassium and use KNO3 and KH2PO4, not sure if that's generally accepted but everything is growing fine.
> 
> Love your tank by the way, its like a chameleon.


Thanks, it does look like a chameleon 

I used a calc like that but I made a 2 L solution. Once I divided into 500 ml bottles, I guess thats when things went south. As I approached the 300 ml mark on the bottle, things started to settle.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

I dont like spamming my journal here, but this is a big update.

So today turned out to be a MAJOR clean up. I sold alot of the ludwig red hybrid and that caused a chain effect. There was so much crap/mulm everywhere that I decided to clean up everything. The d diandra was decomposing from the bottom as no light could get down. The mermaid weed was in the way so I had to move that. The wavy was in the way as well so moved that. Threw away a crap load of stems because the leaves had gsa here and there. I cut down the mini type 2. I have no hopes for it, these plants just not want to convert to their true self.

The left most side with that stupid ugly green plant is going in the garbage next weekend. Im going to replace it with R India. The right side is becoming cluttered. The Nesea needs trimming and I have to deal with the cuba and the others. Boy this isnt easy.

I really hope the drop in bio mass does not cause much trouble. I also upturned alot of substrate.

September 29, 2013









September 30, 2013









Bonus


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

Hey just think or look at my tank n that will keep u motivated. Lol
Dwarf Ricca/Duckweed mix on top








This was it a few weeks ago.








Water change time.








Some sort of moss wall.








Ill let u use your imagination on the rest lol any ideas about mine besides starting over? There are fish in there too somewhere 10-15 rainbows, 5 black tetra, 5-6 redeye tetra, 7 corys, 3-6 otocats an a lot of snails the big ones white n blue (trap door/apple) I think.



```

```



samee said:


> I dont like spamming my journal here, but this is a big update.
> 
> So today turned out to be a MAJOR clean up. I sold alot of the ludwig red hybrid and that caused a chain effect. There was so much crap/mulm everywhere that I decided to clean up everything. The d diandra was decomposing from the bottom as no light could get down. The mermaid weed was in the way so I had to move that. The wavy was in the way as well so moved that. Threw away a crap load of stems because the leaves had gsa here and there. I cut down the mini type 2. I have no hopes for it, these plants just not want to convert to their true self.
> 
> ...


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

That looks very natural. As in, looks like a densely vegetated pond under a rainforest. The duckweed sure makes the tank look dark. I need to see a full tank shot, with water and everything to suggest anything


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

samee said:


> That looks very natural. As in, looks like a densely vegetated pond under a rainforest. The duckweed sure makes the tank look dark. I need to see a full tank shot, with water and everything to suggest anything


Thanks, that's my pond/tank I love the way it's set up but not the way I went about planting it. Now I also got some saweeeeeet lookin rinbow fish in there so it due for a clean up. Don't know if you will be able to tell what's what but here's the pics.
























Ill take a better one when I get home.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Thats a really nice dense tank, perhaps start your own journal thread?


Did major clean up. 200% water change, spent 2 hours. Spent 2 hrs last week as well pruning the shizz out the tank. The only plant that needs chopping is the nesaea. Im selling all of lobelia cards for $10, its about 11" in height but no ones biting. I want it gone, no space. I uprooted all the hotton that was on the left, gave it for free. I snipped the R. India and planted it there. I cant wait for it to do a bamboo jungle










cuba


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Late update. Many thing happened along the way and have since the pics were taken.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks really good. I think with some basic manicuring, this tank could be almost perfect in a few trims (if you like that look).


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Looks really good. I think with some basic manicuring, this tank could be almost perfect in a few trims (if you like that look).



Its really really hard to. I want a proper dutch look but I just cant. too many plant species and I hate how many of the plants dont grow 100% straight up. Not to mention plants grow at different rates.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

samee said:


> Late update. Many thing happened along the way and have since the pics were taken.


I know u posted a little while ago but do u still have lobelia for sale?
And what's the plant in the first pic on the right?


----------



## Coldwater King (Jul 23, 2013)

Looks really good. How much CO2 do you use in a week?


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

newbieplanter said:


> I know u posted a little while ago but do u still have lobelia for sale?
> And what's the plant in the first pic on the right?


It was finally sold for $5. The group was worth atleast $15 but no one was interested. So I let it go for that much. At least it went to a good home. The guy knew his stuff and he had several tanks, including 125 gal.

Do you mean the plant on the left? Its the Lindernia sp. 'India'



Coldwater King said:


> Looks really good. How much CO2 do you use in a week?


Alot. I use pressurized so I cant tell how many psi I use. Theres alot of co2 wastage though.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

samee said:


> Its really really hard to. I want a proper dutch look but I just cant. too many plant species and I hate how many of the plants dont grow 100% straight up. Not to mention plants grow at different rates.


I am going to have to relearn all that with my latest. I have had a few other high tech stem only plants and I find if you really keep up, it becomes easier and easier to estimate how much more one trim needs to be than the next so you can still get away with a weekly trim. One of my big secrets was as simple as trimming it on a Sunday night or Monday if I missed that. Then it will recover by mid week and look great for the weekend, when people would most likely see my tanks. Much easier than trying to trim a few times a week, if you can figure out a system that works.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

samee said:


> It was finally sold for $5. The group was worth atleast $15 but no one was interested. So I let it go for that much. At least it went to a good home. The guy knew his stuff and he had several tanks, including 125 gal.
> 
> Do you mean the plant on the left? Its the Lindernia sp. 'India'
> 
> ...


This plant here. I think it's Hygrophila corymbosa compact


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

newbieplanter said:


> This plant here. I think it's H. Compacta


Compacta? That plant looks entirely different. You are pointing at the card I think.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

samee said:


> Compacta? That plant looks entirely different. You are pointing at the card I think.


I fixed the spelling.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

samee said:


> Compacta? That plant looks entirely different. You are pointing at the card I think.


I fixed the spelling. Now that I look it just looks like hygrophila corymbosa, not compact my bad. I have the compact sp. but one time the leaves grew big like that one.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

I have the compacta but the lobelia is very different looking. It gas round leaves vs cory which are pointy.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Didnt think my tank was interesting enough so didnt post for a while. Gonna post a few images I took a moment ago.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

U got a good tank journal goin it's mine that's all over the place with months an days an what not so I got about 3 people following lol if that.


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

What is the pretty plant on the left in your first three (most recent) photos? Looks very cool from that above perspective.


----------



## Alan79 (Nov 17, 2013)

Just read though your entire thread. I have to say wow, you grow some nice plants. I'm fairly new to planted tanks but most of the advice i read says that T8 lights aren't great for growing. I use a single T8 over two 20g tanks and have no issues with growing plants but i don't see much red from my plants. I was wondering what kind of T8 bulbs you had so much success with? I have tri phosphur bulbs with 6400k. I get good plant growth but i have some big issues with algea. Might be the length of time i leave the lights on too. Dosing ferts does not reduce algae for me it just helps it transform it's appearance.

It seems a pity that you toss so many trimmings. Do you have a local aquarium club where you could start a mailing list. You might have more luck selling your plants if you can directly message the locals who have tanks or if you could take big lots to meetings. You could also get in touch with most of the LFS near you and see if they will buy packages of your trimmings if you can send them regularly.Even if you only get store credit for the plants it's something.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

newbieplanter said:


> U got a good tank journal goin it's mine that's all over the place with months an days an what not so I got about 3 people following lol if that.


Thanks. My tank goes places if I leave the tank alone for 2 weeks or more 



AquaAurora said:


> What is the pretty plant on the left in your first three (most recent) photos? Looks very cool from that above perspective.


I love the plant, its an alternative to the ammannia bonsai. The plant in the pic is Lindernia sp. 'India'. I love how straight it grows.



Alan79 said:


> Just read though your entire thread. I have to say wow, you grow some nice plants. I'm fairly new to planted tanks but most of the advice i read says that T8 lights aren't great for growing. I use a single T8 over two 20g tanks and have no issues with growing plants but i don't see much red from my plants. I was wondering what kind of T8 bulbs you had so much success with? I have tri phosphur bulbs with 6400k. I get good plant growth but i have some big issues with algea. Might be the length of time i leave the lights on too. Dosing ferts does not reduce algae for me it just helps it transform it's appearance.
> 
> It seems a pity that you toss so many trimmings. Do you have a local aquarium club where you could start a mailing list. You might have more luck selling your plants if you can directly message the locals who have tanks or if you could take big lots to meetings. You could also get in touch with most of the LFS near you and see if they will buy packages of your trimmings if you can send them regularly.Even if you only get store credit for the plants it's something.


To tell you the truth my tank is only 12" deep from gravel to the lights. So I had a huge success growing plants with it. I had two regular ship lights with random t8 bulbs I bought from a hardware store. My lights were on for only 8 hours. Besides the right light, co2 and EI dosing are king when it comes to plant colour. 

I do sell on my local aquaria site. But for some reason theres not much demand here. People in Toronto are just not ambitious. Majority keep low light plants and the high tech people make do with whatever they have. Pet shops are bad. They dont give you jack, Ive already asked before. I could be a big supplier to one of the pet shops but they didnt want to pay anything. 

Thanks for taking out the time to read through the whole journal


----------



## Coldwater King (Jul 23, 2013)

There is not much to say other than, THOSE TANKS ARE BEAUTIFUL.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Coldwater King said:


> There is not much to say other than, THOSE TANKS ARE BEAUTIFUL.



Thanks  Its one tank with different plant layouts.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Some more pics. I got rid of 2 species of plants, they just did not behave well for me.

Before









After









Stellatus


----------



## Aqualady (Jan 14, 2013)

Wow...niceeee!!!!


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

samee said:


> Some more pics. I got rid of 2 species of plants, they just did not behave well for me.
> 
> Before
> 
> ...


Lovin tha last 2 pics, that's a nice plant. I'm still trying to figure out how your plants are healthy from top to bottom, that's how I want my plants to grow.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

newbieplanter said:


> Lovin tha last 2 pics, that's a nice plant. I'm still trying to figure out how your plants are healthy from top to bottom, that's how I want my plants to grow.


And I look at Tom Barr's tank and wonder how his plants are growing so well top to bottom 

The secret is extensive pruning. Its too much work for me, and its only a 45 gal. Basically the lower leaves dont get much light so they die out. The energy/synthesis is diverted to the upper ones. So you have to chop off all the lower stems and plant it back again. So rather than snip the top and plant it, chop the bottom half, throw away the roots and everything and plant it again. Atleast thats the best way around.

The only time my stellatus reds up from the middle is when it gets huge! I have many thinner stems almost at the surface but they are colourless.


----------



## jlfkona (Jan 1, 2013)

I just finished reading your whole journal. What a great tank. You have definitely given me some things to think about. 

Thanks for sharing your story. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

samee said:


> Compacta? That plant looks entirely different. You are pointing at the card I think.


I laughed when I saw this b/c I had been neglecting my lobelia for months and it looks the same as yours. I trimmed off the bottom half and replanted to see how it acts...I also have two smaller ones that recently took off so I trimmed the top off of one and am floating it to see if it sends out roots....just experimenting around...

Mine on Tues before hacking it down:


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

jfynyson said:


> I laughed when I saw this b/c I had been neglecting my lobelia for months and it looks the same as yours. I trimmed off the bottom half and replanted to see how it acts...I also have two smaller ones that recently took off so I trimmed the top off of one and am floating it to see if it sends out roots....just experimenting around...
> 
> Mine on Tues before hacking it down:
> View attachment 261146


Wow, what's the hygro giant? Lol I wold love to have a piece of that plant if u wanna trade for some plants let me know? Nice!


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Now thats huge, first time seen someone else with a bigger lobelia than mine. These things grow med fast and they get hugggeeee.


----------



## STS_1OO (Nov 28, 2012)

So Samee, even with that incredibly dense flora, standard EI dosing cuts it for you? Or are you upping the doses? 

Also, you could always sell trimmings here on TPT...no? 

I should not leave out the obvious....You've got a fantastic tanks, great work!


----------



## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

newbieplanter said:


> Wow, what's the hygro giant? Lol I wold love to have a piece of that plant if u wanna trade for some plants let me know? Nice!


What all do you have ?


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

STS_1OO said:


> So Samee, even with that incredibly dense flora, standard EI dosing cuts it for you? Or are you upping the doses?
> 
> Also, you could always sell trimmings here on TPT...no?
> 
> I should not leave out the obvious....You've got a fantastic tanks, great work!



Umm about EI, its the least honed down thing of the entire setup. I even have more knowledge about my co2, which is the hardest thing to do compared to the EI dosing. Im not sure about the mixture I made nor am I sure on how much I need to dose. I think this might be one of the things I keep getting algae and sometimes I starve the plants and mess up everything.

I wish I could sell on tpt, Id make alot of $$ but Im in Canada 

Thanks for the comment


----------



## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

If you weren't in Canada, I'd probably buy at least half your trimmings lol

I'm curious though, if you can get these plants, why is it so hard for you to find people to sell to? I'm not really sure how the hobby is up in Canada.

I am however, super jealous of how you well you can grow plants  Bravo good sir, bravo. I hope I can get my tank to become this colorfully messy in the future.


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

HybridHerp said:


> If you weren't in Canada, I'd probably buy at least half your trimmings lol
> 
> I'm curious though, if you can get these plants, why is it so hard for you to find people to sell to? I'm not really sure how the hobby is up in Canada.
> 
> I am however, super jealous of how you well you can grow plants  Bravo good sir, bravo. I hope I can get my tank to become this colorfully messy in the future.



I get the plants from my local lfs, they are the only lfs that imports rare plants. And I dont really buy plants anymore, Ive had the same plants for a very long time. People here for some reason are just not into it. Atleast there are not as many people who want plants. Another thing, I sell on a local forum, so many from my city see it vs tpt which is a nation wide forum. There is no Canada wide forum and shipping here sucks. Which is why US is the best place for plants.

hehe colourfully messy  Thats not too hard, just try to keep it clean and you will get my look.


----------



## Mega Shrimp (Mar 5, 2014)

Hello samee,
First off I would like to say thank you for all of the time you spent on this thread. I have been reading it from start to finish over the last two days.

While I pretty much have always had an aquarium of one sort or another, I have yet to build a planted tank. That is what I am here for, to learn as much as I can from you guys, then go for it! (hopefully not screwing it up too badly) :icon_eek:

In my planning stages I had decided upon BML lighting for my 55 gallon tank, (20" tall x 13" deep). From reading your story though, it sounds like you were not happy with BML lighting. Did you ever sort out the issues you had with their lighting? Please let me know what you would have done differently, or otherwise, if you have since had a change of heart? Your plants sure do seem happy.

As for your tank, WOW, it sure has come a long way from your first post on this thread. It looks more balanced, the plants look more full, organized, and with a better selection. The ground cover in the front looks very soft and inviting and it's color looks way sweet. Overall your tank presents a nice mixture of color and is a real beauty. Way to go!

It has been a couple of months gone by. How about an updated picture for us?

So samee, much thanks goes out to you! I have really learned a lot from reading all of this and I'm super grateful that you took the time to share your story here. "I feel more smart now." :icon_cool

~ Shrimp


----------



## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

You should name this tank "Scapeshifter"... lol


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Mega Shrimp said:


> Hello samee,
> First off I would like to say thank you for all of the time you spent on this thread. I have been reading it from start to finish over the last two days.
> 
> While I pretty much have always had an aquarium of one sort or another, I have yet to build a planted tank. That is what I am here for, to learn as much as I can from you guys, then go for it! (hopefully not screwing it up too badly) :icon_eek:
> ...


aww thank you!! If you do get leds, you have to hang them no matter what. Their spread angles are so small (directional I think they call it) that you have to hang it. The problem in my tank is that bottom leaves die out quick, because there is no light overlap at the bottom. Since the led is one thin strip, there is not enough spread at the bottom. Atleast I feel that way. The best thing you can do is DIY led setup. So lets say 12 leds running length and 4 running width, 12x4 or something like that. This way your entire tank will get equal amount of PAR. So thats one problem with leds. The second is even though my led is sitting on my tank, its not illuminating the entire tank. So I threw on my old T8 shop light as well. Now its well illuminated.

atm I have the PAR from the led and brightness from the t8, thats how I worked around. But I feel like my plants still struggle because of the lack of spread.

As I get rid of some plant species, the tank should hopefully, slowly, get better in terms of scape and aesthetics. atm it looks ugly.

Im happy you are learning, it means alot when people read thru my entire thread, I love going into detail when I can and when I know people actually read. I want people to learn.




GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> You should name this tank "Scapeshifter"... lol


ehehe yea when I look back its insane. I still have the same flourite and other nutrient gravels since I started, they must be exhausted. 


Now for update

Thought to update. Past months Ive just not been interested in the hobby. Ive been getting rid of many plant species so I can try to scape (dutch). Im just terrible at it. I dont know where to clip the plants from so they look bushy. Im just so busy cutting them from underneath and replanting them back that it looks ugly. One of the worst things is the tank space. 45 is too small, 12" depth is killer. The java moss is growing thru out my dgh, which is very annoying. I rip out alot and waste alot of gravel too.


----------



## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Just looks like you need a good pruning/trimming and it'd look like a whole new tank. Plants look great and really healthy in this photo.


----------



## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

I'm also in Toronto. You sure can grow. What type of lighting are you using and WPG?

My tank,


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

I have BML and a T8 shop light. WPG is very outdated. From what I know, Im getting around 120 PAR at the substrate, which is very overkill. The problem is though with the spread.


----------



## Mega Shrimp (Mar 5, 2014)

Hey samee,
Just thought I'd check back to see how things are going with you. I know we tend to be our own worst critics but I think your tank looks sweet. Very healthy too. With the exception of the tall red plant the rest look pretty bushy. That generally means they are getting good light. The tall red looks as though it may have had to worm it's way out from under the others, also perhaps that variety may simply require a lot of light.

I have not gotten much farther than when I last posted. I wound up moving to another city and that was all encompassing. I totally broke down my 55gal, migrated my fish to another tank, and am back on the game slowly crawling towards my first planted aquarium. (I posted pics of the 55 on my homepage).

I had a Custom Sea Life fixture for a 90 gallon salt that I used to have many many years ago. I sold that tank but kept the fixture. It has 4 96w compact fluorescents in it. To start with I think I am going to buy new lamps for it and just use that to start out with. It will put out 384 watts of light and should be enough to get me going (I think).

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Haven't done much physically but I have done a ton of research so far. (Massive amount). Keep posting the timeline of your tank! You have a great story going on there and it's really interesting and helpful to us newbees. Good luck on the pruning too. I am anxious to see how that turns out. Be bold man! 

Have a good one.

Shrimp


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

samee said:


> I have BML and a T8 shop light. WPG is very outdated. From what I know, Im getting around 120 PAR at the substrate, which is very overkill. The problem is though with the spread.


How in tha world r u gettin 120 PAR at the sub how deep is ya tank?
Did u use one of Hoppy's DIY PAR meters or a store bought original?


----------



## CluelessAquarist (Apr 5, 2014)

The picture titled "May 27, 2012" is the most beautiful setup in my opinion. Love the green


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

newbieplanter said:


> How in tha world r u gettin 120 PAR at the sub how deep is ya tank?
> Did u use one of Hoppy's DIY PAR meters or a store bought original?


I used the PAR chart from BML. My tank height from sub to fixture was 14" or something.




CluelessAquarist said:


> The picture titled "May 27, 2012" is the most beautiful setup in my opinion. Love the green


Thank you, I now look back and find the mess beautiful.

The tank has been shut down. I downgraded to 30 gal square. I will conclude the thread with pics of the tank from its last few weeks. I will make another thread and update on all the progress, I will link it here as well. It was a great journey. Ive been very busy lately and will be for a few days, so posting here will be sporadic.


----------



## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

Samee, great looking tank man!! I love that Blyxia. I am actually going to get some Blyxia this week from my buddy. You certainly are a talented scaper!

-Mikeg


----------



## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Mikeygmzmg said:


> Samee, great looking tank man!! I love that Blyxia. I am actually going to get some Blyxia this week from my buddy. You certainly are a talented scaper!
> 
> -Mikeg



Thank you, Im not that great at scaping  All the best to you with the blyxa, the biggest pain is to set them down and prevent them from floating. Besides that, they are great looking plants.


----------

