# Algae Attack!



## cradleoffilthfan (Jan 19, 2009)

is your co2 coming out right at the surface? Are you getting hair algae on all your plants or just at the bottom on the grass? Do you know what your nitrate reading is even if your kit isn't newish.


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## hamato (Jun 7, 2008)

The glass diffuser is right on the substrate, bubbles travel past the spraybar output which is directed toward the surface. Some I can see are getting redirected back into the tank but many just break the surface. It does seem effective from the drop checker readings, I just need to find the right output level and deal the inefficiencies until I can upgrade to something inline. 
One concern I had was due to the length of the tank and the lack of flow from the spraybar there may be deadspots near the substrate. I don't really see any movement from plant leaves and I am open to suggestions on how to correct this issue. I do have a Koralia 240 powerhead on order that may help address this. 

There is hair algae on all the plants to varying degrees. It seems to grow very fast and attach itself to distressed leaves on my crypts, which I prune as they are a lost cause at that point. I don't know how to save these microswords or if they can be saved. The tank walls have a lot of green spot algae but this isn't a main concern as it can be removed. 

With regard to the nitrate readings, I really do not have anything accurate. My new test kit should arrive in a few days so I will update with nitrate and phosphate readings. 

Also I've been adding the microswords to try to get them to carpet, with no luck. The ones covered with algae have been in there a month, whereas the greener bunch have only been in there a few days. They are a little clumped due to a pleco that likes to uproot plants.


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## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

you may want to purchase a few otos and SAEs. I would guess that your drop checker is probably somewhat accurate. 

Def do the tests and let us know what it says. If it continues to get really bad, i have done tank blackouts for about 2-3 days that worked pretty well to kill the algae.

I think one of the things that was hard to understand when i first started keeping tanks is that your going to get forms of algae one way or another, but their may be a nutrient imbalance in the tank. The algae eaters would be a good start


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## Anna (Nov 20, 2006)

I had really bad hair algae in my 75 gallon shortly after starting it up and got rid of it by getting my plants growing well and frequently removing the algae. It took a couple of months, but it did gradually disappear. The fact that your plants are not growing much says a lot. I know many people use the diffusers, but I've had much better luck with my diy mixing chamber. A friend of mine who swore by his diffuser switched to a "reactor" and was able to go much longer before refilling the CO2 tank. Anyway, I would bet it's your CO2.

Anna


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## hamato (Jun 7, 2008)

Ok so my new test kit arrived. 

Nitrates: somewhere between 40ppm and 80ppm 
Phosphates: off the chart over 10ppm 
Nitrites: 0 
ph: ~6.8 

I assume I should be doing some more water changes to correct these high levels?


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## hamato (Jun 7, 2008)

Well I've been manually removing as much of this algae as I can, but the next day it is all back and then some. I've tried hitting it with h2o2 but aside from a lot of bubbling it does not die. I have also installed a powerhead and am confidant that there are no circulation issues remaning. 

I am unsure where to go from here. Some options:
-Reduce Lighting: 12 xp-gs (40deg lenses) at 800ma 20in from the substrate-- too much light?
-nano diffuser below powerhead (as seen in pic below). Is this just not efficient enough? I'm gradually increasing the flow on days I'm home to monitor fish health.
- Get some algae eaters. Might help keep it under control until I can determine the cause LFS has some SAE and amano shrimps, but I'm not sure if they are a good fit for a 20long with current inhabitants (5 corys, 1 rubberlip pleco and 7 tetras)


The enemy!


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## hamato (Jun 7, 2008)

Algae Log day 20:

So taking my own advice, I raised the light up another 6", programmed my controller to do a 2 hr blackout (4on-2off-4on), increased co2 and added some algae eaters (1 SAE, 3 amano shrimps!)

I'll have to give it more time to see if these changes have any effect, but the dropchecker was yellow when I got home from work, which worries me. I think I would need about 100 more shrimp to put a dent in this and the SAE probably won't eat any at all, so they will have little to no effect.

Below is about 1 days growth. I toothbrushed out all I could yesterday, though I only managed to get 50% or so out of the microswords as they uproot too easily.

I've always had low-tech tanks before so I have never dealt with stuff that could grow this quickly, if only my plants would do this  I Could use some advice from those who have dealt with this before on what to do next :confused1:


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Those algae seems like the Brown algae. I didn't win the battle.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

I have encountered the same algae in three of my six tanks. It predominantly appears in the upper levels of my tank due to excessive light. As you woudl expect it basically smothers it's host plant. This kind of algae doesn't go away by itself...

Its been two weeks and a lot of patience but I seem to have turned thins around. Mine did not extne beyond sections of my tank due to my layered design but it is a challenge nonetheless. I used plant tongs to physically extract the algae, trimming portions of the plants that were too wrapped up in it and added loads of frog bit in one tank and dwarf water lettuce in the other. Both shot long fine roots and sent baby runners which lead me to believe the lamps were seriously overproducing what my plants could use in the photoperiod. Fortunately I watch the tank daily and promptly addressed this.

I've recently added co2 but have not run it consistently due to my workschdule and focus on algae but I have noticed the algae growth subsiding and the plants coming back to good health no longer being suffocated.

Extraction and persistence is key. We ourselves cause this problem through neglect or negligence so learn to pay attention to the balance of the tank. The longer it's left unattended, the more difficult the recovery.

Good luck


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## alphabeatsco (Feb 26, 2012)

hey dude, i am having the exact same issue as you.
all my algae are growing on the hairgrass...wondering how did you go fixing this?


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## TwoTacoCombo (Apr 13, 2012)

Wow, what a mess! As far as your question about the shrimp.. I have 5 amanos living with corys, otos, neos, and rasboras, and everyone gets along just fine. With your flow problems, have you tried putting the spray bar on the shorter wall next to the intake pipe? I've got my spray bar and a nano 240 on that wall, aiming slightly toward the surface, blowing down the length of my 50 gal. It creates a nice circular motion throughout the whole tank, top to bottom. Your nutrient levels are sky high for that plant load. I've got far more plant matter in my low light tank, and the fish poop alone keeps the nitrates between 5-10, never bottoming out. I'd scale way back on the ferts, even eliminate them for a while. All you're doing is feeding the algae..


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

hamato said:


> Ok so my new test kit arrived.
> 
> Nitrates: somewhere between 40ppm and 80ppm
> Phosphates: off the chart over 10ppm
> ...


Did you go ahead and get these down to a reasonable level? Its going to be tough to assess your lighting since there are no par tests on it. It would be great if you could find a par meter to borrow. I don't know how old your tank is, but newer tanks have problems with this algae pretty regularly.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You can safely assume that you have too much light. Do you have dimmable LED drivers? If not, just raise the fixture a little more. You really need to use a PAR meter to be sure how much light you have.


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## hamato (Jun 7, 2008)

I raised the light to 26" above the substrate, the maximum I can raise it. I have some plants closer to the surface though so realistically 16" or so from the light. I also set the intensity on my controller to 50 of maximum, I may lower this even more. 

The hair algae is mostly gone thanks to ripping out plants and dipping them in h2o2 and manually pulling it out. My new enemy is staghorn which basically makes leaves unrecoverable, and Green Water which I think I will have to get UV to rectify. The staghorn responds to h2o2 and turns red, but seems to bounce back and regrow which is annoying.

I thought my lighting level was adequate based on many threads I have read, but perhaps my downfall was I was comparing my extremely light plantload to other peoples established tanks. My final goal for this tank contains a lot more plants, so should I be adding them now or waiting until I can get the algae under control?

I have a custom arduino based controller so I think I may build a PAR meter based on the thread in the DIY forums, as I can really only guess at my light levels.



livingword26 said:


> Did you go ahead and get these down to a reasonable level? Its going to be tough to assess your lighting since there are no par tests on it. It would be great if you could find a par meter to borrow. I don't know how old your tank is, but newer tanks have problems with this algae pretty regularly.


Yes nitrates are in the 10-20ppm range now. I'm down to only dosing once a week after a water change. Phosphates are still high but I read that the kits can be unreliable without calibration so I'm looking into that now.


Even my dropchecker has betrayed me ...


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## alphabeatsco (Feb 26, 2012)

I have exactly same issue as you.
i've dosed my staghorns with H2o2, killed few CRS, but made algae turned pink.

i've stopped dosing nutrients completely. there is one thing i like to argue. EI will probably promote algae. the reason is probably because you have too much nutrients in the tank, the plants is not keeping up, therefore your algae will overtake. This is a fact, it's even listed in ADA sites, do not dose any nutrients apart from Brighty K, unless algae is completely vanished. i am also in the experimental stage, i've cutting down all my fert dosing, and see how my plants go. 

**in the past few days, even without fertz, my plants still growing well.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

There are two steps required to control an algae problem like this: (1) Fix the underlying problem, and (2) Kill the existing algae.

(1) Fixing the underlying problem may take some time as you gain experience with your tank to determine the right balance of light, nutrients, and plant mass. The advice to decrease the nutrients is not recommended. Instead, concentrate on ensuring that the plants get everything they need to grow as healthy and strong as possible. Anything you do to fight the algae must not harm the plants or you'll lose the battle completely. The goal is to focus on growing strong plants. With that in mind, make sure your plants get all the CO2 and ferts they need.

If you find that you do not have enough plants yet, then I always recommend adding a very simple pond plant called hornwort. It's cheap, grows very fast, and doesn't even require being planted. You can either float it on the surface or tie a weight to one end and drop it in the tank to mimic a planted stem. As your regular plants grow in, you can toss the hornwort or give it to the next guy.

(2) Even if you correct the imbalance in the tank, the existing algae won't magically die out. You have to take measures to kill it. The most successful method I have used is the full-tank H2O2 method. This allows the H2O2 to go throughout your entire tank, filtration and all, and kill all algae. You'll see dead algae in 2-3 days and a clear tank in about a week.

First thing to do is turn off your filtration. This way the water is calm and not moving. Then figure out how many ml equals 3% of your tank volume to determine how much H2O2 you will use. For example, a 20g tank would be 60ml (20 x 3 = 60). Then use a syringe to spot treat up to 60ml of H2O2 on the worst places of algae. Once you've used up all 60ml, turn off the lights. Wait 15 minutes. Then turn on the filters (but leave the lights off). Wait 15 more minutes. Now turn on the lights. No water change is needed.

I've done this with concentrations of 4% H2O2 twice a day without any ill effects. Just make sure all the bubbling has stopped to be sure the prior dose has broken down into water and oxygen before adding another dose.

Some algae will turn colors after it dies marking the progress you've made. You'll be tempted to physically remove the algae, but it's not necessary. The dead algae will melt away on its own within a week.

I've had great success with just 1 or 2 full tank methods, but since H2O2 is cheap and breaks down into harmless substances, you can repeat the treatments as often as you want until you feel satisfied you've gotten on top of the problem. As you continue to adjust the lighting, CO2, ferts, and plant mass to get the right balance, you can always do a single H2O2 treatment to knock down any algae that tries to take back over. Eventually, you'll get everything in balance and won't need to treat for algae problems anymore.

One word of caution: H2O2 is known to kill hornwort, anacharis, and vals so remove them when treating with H2O2. You can put them back in the tank once the H2O2 has broken down.


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## alphabeatsco (Feb 26, 2012)

i have tried the H2O2 approach, dosing 3ml per gallon. it kills the algae i presume, as the algae was turning pink. However!!! you cannot treat the tank with CRS, YES CRS ONLY! alot of people have great success with amano, cherries, etc. but CRS is a special breed. they will die one after another...
i've just lost few CRS due to H2O2 dosing. and i changed 2x 50% water, still got problems.

I don't think you should LIMIT or OVERDOSE the nutrients, you need to find the right dosage. Both (LIMIT&OVERDOSE) will promote algae.

i've tried both approach...followed EI and dosed fertz everyday, alternating Micros and Macros. all i got was no growth, just ALGAE boom.
hair algae, fuzz algae..

i need a research, all those algae come from excessive nutrients.

What i'm interested in is, how do I know if i have enough nutrients in the water?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

alphabeatsco said:


> .... all those algae come from excessive nutrients.


This gets repeated very often, but doesn't get more correct by repetition. Algae require extremely small amounts of nutrients to grow. Compared to what plants need, algae need virtually nothing in the way of nutrients. Excess nutrients in a planted tank has been shown not to cause algae many, many times. The one thing that will almost always cause algae is excess light, where excess means more light than the plants need. If you can keep the plants growing in good health, at the rate that the light is driving them to grow, algae may not get started. But, once it does start, having lots of light means having very fast algae growth. Since the algae growth rate is never limited by lack of nutrients, as plant growth often is, the algae will "out compete" the plants every time.


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## knuggs (Mar 5, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> This gets repeated very often, but doesn't get more correct by repetition. Algae require extremely small amounts of nutrients to grow. Compared to what plants need, algae need virtually nothing in the way of nutrients. Excess nutrients in a planted tank has been shown not to cause algae many, many times. The one thing that will almost always cause algae is excess light, where excess means more light than the plants need. If you can keep the plants growing in good health, at the rate that the light is driving them to grow, algae may not get started. But, once it does start, having lots of light means having very fast algae growth. Since the algae growth rate is never limited by lack of nutrients, as plant growth often is, the algae will "out compete" the plants every time.


+1 Hit the nail on the head. As long as the plants are healthy as well the algae will wont grow on it. I have one tank that has algae all over the substrate becuase it gets too much secondary light but the plants dont have algae and its been this way for months.


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## hamato (Jun 7, 2008)

Algae update:

Hair algae seems to be defeated by vigorous removal and lighting adjustment.

I've been dosing h2o2 daily now to try to stop the staghorn infestation. First I pull out as much as I can with tweezers and then dose a section with peroxide. I have been limiting it to around 5-6 syringes full per day, as it seems to hurt the shrimp when I get it anywhere near them 

As for the green water I've been holding off on buying UV due to the expense and hopes that it will clear up on it's own. It is not pea-soup by any means, just a general haziness that varies in intensity and greenness throughout the day which I find odd. At some points in the day the water is almost clear, but it always returns.

I think the most worrying part is the lack of growth of my plants. After over a month none of my micro swords have grown at all. My anubis have grown 2 new leaves each in 2 months, but I had to remove many of the existing leaves due to staghorn. My crypts basically all died off, which I suppose is not unexpected, but regrowth is nearly non-existent. 
I think I have fixed most of the lighting issues I had but until the plants start growing the algae is still winning the battle


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## Ach1Ll3sH33L (Mar 1, 2012)

All those plants you listed are pretty slow growers, and aren't going to suck up a lot of nutrients. Remember it takes about 2 weeks for the roots of the plants to establish before you'll see some good growth, however if your plants get smothered in algae that process can take longer. I would suggest getting some faster growing stem plants, and some floating plants for the time being, and once things are more established and stable, remove the stem plants if they don's fit the scape you had in mind.

It looks like your also running an air stone with the lights on, i would set this on an individual timer to only come on during lights out. If you run it during the day it will gas off your c02. Another thing to consider is, if you have enough surface agitation you dont really need an air stone.


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## hamato (Jun 7, 2008)

Ach1Ll3sH33L said:


> All those plants you listed are pretty slow growers, and aren't going to suck up a lot of nutrients. Remember it takes about 2 weeks for the roots of the plants to establish before you'll see some good growth, however if your plants get smothered in algae that process can take longer. I would suggest getting some faster growing stem plants, and some floating plants for the time being, and once things are more established and stable, remove the stem plants if they don's fit the scape you had in mind.
> 
> It looks like your also running an air stone with the lights on, i would set this on an individual timer to only come on during lights out. If you run it during the day it will gas off your c02. Another thing to consider is, if you have enough surface agitation you dont really need an air stone.


No airstone, just the in tank co2 (glass nano diffuser).

I added some more plants including some stem plants so hopefully that will help long term.

One question about my tank cloudiness, which I assumed to be Green Water. Is it normal for it to be cloudy all night and most of the day, then be 90% clear in the evening? This pattern repeats daily.

Here is what it looks like in the morning shortly after the lights turn on. The white dots are co2 bubbles if it isn't clear from my blurry photo


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## hamato (Jun 7, 2008)

Algae Log day 60:

90% of all algae has gone. I think what finally tipped the scales in my favour was adding a bunch of plants that actually grew & a bunch of duckweed.










There is still a bit of staghorn here and there, but I found that excel is much better at actually killing it for good vs h2o2, so am now able to kill it before it gets out of control if and when it reappears.

I still can't get my microsword to do anything at all. I'd give up and try another carpeting plant but my selection here is limited  










One downside to adding these fast growing plants is they quickly got out of control! This water sprite grew 500% of its original size in 2 weeks.. Also added some "dwarf" sag which seems like it would work better in a tank 3x the hight I have, and a stem plant which I lost the ID on but seems to love growing roots from every branch and doubles in size every week.


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## chunkychun (Apr 6, 2012)

Wow looks much better! Thanks for posting your progress. Its nice to see what worked for you. Good luck with your tank!


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## Ptyochromis (Mar 16, 2012)

Great! More plants is generally always the answer, especially stems which you have done :thumbsup:.

Looks a million times better from the stark tank you had before. Now don't go leaving the lights on forever just because you want to enjoy your pretty tank (like i did lol).


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