# Need suggestions for low-tech LED fixture



## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

No suggestions?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Finnex fugeray planted plus 48 inch.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

I have read that this particular model might not be good for a 55 gallon due to the height of the tank. So I'm guessing it would not be good for dhg or staur. repens even in a low tech?(I'm just going off what I've been reading... I really don't know much about this).


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Would be low to medium light for 55 gal low tech.
You would struggle with it and carpet plant's, but would be fine otherwise I feel.
Finnex Ray2 would be step up,but may prove to be too much for taller plant's without CO2 injection or supplement's such as Excel.
I bought a Current satellite plus LED for my 80 gal which is taller than 55 gal, and for 80 gal it is low light. So I bought the finnex planted plus which is a bit more light but still low to med for 80 gal at approx. 22 inches to the substrate.
Wound up using both fixtures over my 80 gal but it is too soon to say what growth will be like for the two fixtures have only been over the tank for a week or two.
In hindsight,,I maybe should have ordered the Finnex Ray 2 .
Am trying to grow rotala macaranda,three large swordplant's (Echinodorus ruben,Indian red,and another with red tendencies ) and with just the one fixture,either one, The red coloring was going away much due to the fact that the tank receives no CO2 or supplement's and the lighting may have been a little weak according to research on the plant's mentioned. 
In any event, If the two fixtures together can't help get the red color from the plant's,I'l just replace em with less demanding plant's and just use one or the other fixture.
I feared the RAY 2 woudl be too much = algae without CO2 enhancement.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

roadmaster said:


> Would be low to medium light for 55 gal low tech.
> You would struggle with it and carpet plant's, but would be fine otherwise I feel.
> Finnex Ray2 would be step up,but may prove to be too much for taller plant's without CO2 injection or supplement's such as Excel.
> I bought a Current satellite plus LED for my 80 gal which is taller than 55 gal, and for 80 gal it is low light. So I bought the finnex planted plus which is a bit more light but still low to med for 80 gal at approx. 22 inches to the substrate.
> ...


Ohh okay. I don't plan to have any tall plants. Only short to medium carpet plants like repens, pygmy chain sword, dhg, flour leaf clovers...etc. In this case could I get away with the finnex ray 2 without algae?


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

jcmv4792 said:


> Ohh okay. I don't plan to have any tall plants. Only short to medium carpet plants like repens, pygmy chain sword, dhg, flour leaf clovers...etc. In this case could I get away with the finnex ray 2 without algae?


Maybe, but only if you're really lucky. The 48" RAY2 puts out 73PAR at 18". The Planted+ is about 59PAR at 16". I think your best bet is to get the Planted+24/7 and then adjust the intensity down so you get growth but limit algae. (If you want to stay in the Finnex line)

Or just bite the bullet and inject CO2. Once you've paid for it....it doesn't hurt so much. Carpeting plants and low tech are highly desirable and more difficult to accomplish.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

grizzly_a said:


> Maybe, but only if you're really lucky. The 48" RAY2 puts out 73PAR at 18". The Planted+ is about 59PAR at 16". I think your best bet is to get the Planted+24/7 and then adjust the intensity down so you get growth but limit algae. (If you want to stay in the Finnex line)
> 
> Or just bite the bullet and inject CO2. Once you've paid for it....it doesn't hurt so much. Carpeting plants and low tech are highly desirable and more difficult to accomplish.


Is the planted+ the same as the fugeray planted+? If so, how much PAR would that be for a 55 gallon?(3 inches of EC so around 18" from light to floor).

With the 24/7+, how would I know how much to adjust the light to get the desired PAR?


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

roadmaster said:


> Would be low to medium light for 55 gal low tech.
> You would struggle with it and carpet plant's, but would be fine otherwise I feel.


In this thread, someone suggests that the fugeray planted+ would need a dimmer for low tech. What to do...lol.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=904177


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

As mentioned,,will be about right for 55 gal and low foreground/carpet plant's.
Would be a bit much for top's of taller plant's .
I think it will be bout right, but you can always toss some floating plant's on the surface should it prove otherwise.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

roadmaster said:


> I bought a Current satellite plus LED for my 80 gal which is taller than 55 gal, and for 80 gal it is low light.


What do you think about the current satellite plus for a 55? Would the light output be in the middle of Finnex Stingray and Finnex Planted+?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Don't know the specifications on all these lights mentioned but.
Recommend electrical means of dimming to mechanical.
Messing with window screen and how much floating plants could be PITA.

More light than you need and turn it down by dimming.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Don't know the specifications on all these lights mentioned but.
> Recommend electrical means of dimming to mechanical.
> Messing with window screen and how much floating plants could be PITA.
> 
> More light than you need and turn it down by dimming.


How do I know how much to dim the light? Do I just keep it on max until algae grows, and then gradually lower the light until the algae goes away?


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

jcmv4792 said:


> How do I know how much to dim the light? Do I just keep it on max until algae grows, and then gradually lower the light until the algae goes away?


Pretty much... if you've got or can borrow a PAR meter you can use that to get a starting point, but even with a meter you are still going to end up tweaking up/down from there based on what the tank does... A PAR meter just gets you in a closer ballpark to start with..


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## Doppelgaenger (Jul 20, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> More light than you need and turn it down by dimming.


This and only this. Depending on what light you get, you can figure out your setting based on the values they give you. 

Something like this. I used this to set my light to where algae won't grow. I only have to light down 7 inches in a low tech so I divided 30 by 255, then used that to set the percentage to 22% intensity and voila. for an 18" deep I'd probably set it to 50%


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

grizzly_a; said:


> The Planted+ is about 59PAR at 16". .


Where'd you get this value? From my reading the PAR at 15" is 45, and at 18" is 35(even though the actual rating might be higher due to the reds)


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

jcmv4792 said:


> Where'd you get this value? From my reading the PAR at 15" is 45, and at 18" is 35(even though the actual rating might be higher due to the reds)


I'm not sure where you've been reading those numbers jcmv, but they seem REALLLY low.. Unless they are for a much shorter fixture than a 48".

At 48" even an original fugeray can beat your numbers, putting out 48 PAR at 18" in air (in water will be higher due to focusing effects).

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189944

A planted+ is clearly higher output than an original Fugeray. I think even uber-skeptical jeffkroll agrees with this (although his opinion of how much stronger is probably less than mine).

using a 30" Planted+ unit, I measure 50 PAR at 18.5" with a Hoppy 2014 meter..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7922009&postcount=15

Someone else measures 68 PAR at 18" using a 36" planted+ and an apogee sensor:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7643505&postcount=8

The 48" should come in stronger than the 30" and 36" due to LED overlap.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

Ah my mistake, I was basing that off of a smaller model(I assumed the length didn't matter)

That's weird, I wouldn't have thought it to be that strong. Finnex told me to get the planted+ for a 55 gallon low tech.

By the way, I can't seem to find a 48" fixture of the original fugeray anywhere. Amazon only goes up to the 36".


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

jcmv4792 said:


> Where'd you get this value? From my reading the PAR at 15" is 45, and at 18" is 35(even though the actual rating might be higher due to the reds)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD7QaRzf1Qw

2:30 into the video.
Aquarium coop did the side by side with the Planted+ and Stingray. This was with a 24" fixture.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Yeah, I'm wondering if the Fugeray is being phased out in favor of the stingray and planted+ or 24/7.

here's another link where auqarium co-op tests a 24" stingray and 24" planted+ both on 20h at 16" high:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD7QaRzf1Qw

They get 29 for the stingray and 60 for the planted+ (at 16").

The Fugeray's par is probably not a whole lot higher than the stingray..


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

mattinmd said:


> Yeah, I'm wondering if the Fugeray is being phased out in favor of the stingray and planted+ or 24/7.
> 
> here's another link where auqarium co-op tests a 24" stingray and 24" planted+ both on 20h at 16" high:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD7QaRzf1Qw
> ...


Most likely.

Now in this thread(a year old) people are saying you need two planted+ to get medium lighting

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=548713



> If you want very low light at substrate, 1 fixture, medium low is 2 fixtures, medium high would be 3 fixtures (of the planted+).
> 
> I have 2 planted+ on a 55G, 1 planted+ with a ray2 on a 37G, one fugeray and monster ray on a low light 46G anubias/java fern/moss tank. I will shortly be having 2 4'ers and 2 3'ers on a custom 100G extra long 90"x14"x18".


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Yeah, there several big factors in trying to figure out what someone means when they say things like "I get medium light with xyz setup"..

1) What is "medium light" vs low or high in the opinion of the poster... there are plenty of folks out there that still swear 10-34 PAR is low light, 35-79 PAR is medium light and high is 80-150... Let's face it, there's no standards body dictating what "medium" means..

Even Hoppy thought this way back in 2010:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105774

2) What kind of conditions are in their tank... Someone with blackwater, floaters or a glass topper will get different results than someone without them.

3) Where did they mount it. On the tank, or on some hanging bracket 2' above the tank.

People don't always disclose enough detail to figure these things out.


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

mattinmd said:


> People don't always disclose enough detail to figure these things out.


+1!!!

That's why I just decided to get my own PAR meter, because all the internet research was all over the place because of the above truth. I could test my own setup and determine what PAR I was at and the move forward with finding solutions vs hunting for approximate PAR and figuring out every setup to see how/if it applied to my environment.

The time savings was enough to invest in the PAR meter, and now I can use that time saved to actually do something with my tank vs staring at the screen. The added benefit of sharing that information with the community is also valuable.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

grizzly_a said:


> +1!!!
> 
> That's why I just decided to get my own PAR meter, because all the internet research was all over the place because of the above truth. I could test my own setup and determine what PAR I was at and the move forward with finding solutions vs hunting for approximate PAR and figuring out every setup to see how/if it applied to my environment.
> 
> The time savings was enough to invest in the PAR meter, and now I can use that time saved to actually do something with my tank vs staring at the screen. The added benefit of sharing that information with the community is also valuable.


Which one do you use? I've been suggested the biotek or apogee but those are $$$ lol.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

So would ya'll say the stingray is a better option?


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Hmm, I think a stingray might be a little weak on a 21" deep 55 gallon tank.... depending on what you're trying to do

The Stingray seems pretty much perfect for low-tech tanks that are 16" high, where it gets just under 30 PAR... (29 in Aquarium CoOp's test on a 20-high).

The Aquatic Plant Society has a Stingray PAR chart that darkwater aquatics made...
http://www.theaquaticplantsociety.org/finnex_stingray_led/

It suggests:
6" 54-56
12" 30-32
18" 21-23 PAR
24" 16-18 PAR

None of that is too far off from Aquarium CoOp's numbers, or mine (40-ish PAR on a 12" tank, but probably more like 10.5" due to substrate,etc)

So from that chart 20" is going to probably be 19-20 PAR.. That's sufficient for the easy low-light plants, but if you want to stretch up and grab some of the easy medium light plants it might not be enough.. my H.Corymbosa Compacta lost a lot of lower leaves in this kind of light range..


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

mattinmd said:


> Hmm, I think a stingray might be a little weak on a 21" deep 55 gallon tank.... depending on what you're trying to do
> 
> The Stingray seems pretty much perfect for low-tech tanks that are 16" high, where it gets just under 30 PAR... (29 in Aquarium CoOp's test on a 20-high).
> 
> ...



I wonder why they don't make anything inbetween the stingray and the fugeray planted+. I understand they had a fugeray...but I can't find the 48" model anywhere.

I'd guess that a lot of people would want something in between the two(those who want low-tech but not too low light)


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

To be honest, the market is moving the direction of dimmable fixtures.. make those in 2 tiers and you can cover more situations than having 4 tiers of fixed-output lights...


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## badbart (Jul 28, 2009)

jcmv4792 said:


> Is the planted+ the same as the fugeray planted+? If so, how much PAR would that be for a 55 gallon?(3 inches of EC so around 18" from light to floor).
> 
> With the 24/7+, how would I know how much to adjust the light to get the desired PAR?


i had my planted plus on my low tech 55 and started to have algae issues.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

badbart said:


> i had my planted plus on my low tech 55 and started to have algae issues.


What was your setup like?(duration of lights on, type of plants, dosing regimen?)


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

So besides the dimmable led fixtures, are there any 48" fixtures that give off 30-40PAR at about 18-20 inches?


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## badbart (Jul 28, 2009)

jcmv4792 said:


> What was your setup like?(duration of lights on, type of plants, dosing regimen?)


No frets, lights on for 10 hours. Before I had one t5 fixture with two bulbs with zero problems. I now have the planted plus and a ray2 8 hours on my newly rescaped 75 high tech tank, ei dosing, root tabs, co2 and Echo complete with a little algae but I'm waiting on the plant mass to increase before I start reducing light to combat algae.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

badbart said:


> No frets, lights on for 10 hours. Before I had one t5 fixture with two bulbs with zero problems. I now have the planted plus and a ray2 8 hours on my newly rescaped 75 high tech tank, ei dosing, root tabs, co2 and Echo complete with a little algae but I'm waiting on the plant mass to increase before I start reducing light to combat algae.


Would you say you would not have algae issues if you reduced the duration to lets say... 7 or even 6 hours?

What are you using to light your 55 gallon now(I assume still a low tech setup)?


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## badbart (Jul 28, 2009)

jcmv4792 said:


> Would you say you would not have algae issues if you reduced the duration to lets say... 7 or even 6 hours?
> 
> What are you using to light your 55 gallon now(I assume still a low tech setup)?



I have no idea about the duration,the planted plus looked very bright on the 55 gallon but that doesn't mean much. I switched to a stingray and its working well. Funny thing is the planted plus looked bright on the 55 gallon but on the 75 gallon the planted plus looked pretty dim.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

badbart said:


> I have no idea about the duration,the planted plus looked very bright on the 55 gallon but that doesn't mean much. I switched to a stingray and its working well. Funny thing is the planted plus looked bright on the 55 gallon but on the 75 gallon the planted plus looked pretty dim.


I've been looking at the stingray as an option, but it seems the light it puts out is only strong enough for the "low" low light plants. Could you post a picture of your current setup?(55g). Just trying to see what it looks like now with the new light.


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## badbart (Jul 28, 2009)

Not a pretty tank sort of a hodgepodge of plants I trimmed from my other tanks. I really like the color of the sting ray.


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

I have a 30" Stingray on my 29g and noticed that growth really slowed down after adding the Stingray, I had the original 30" Fugeray on it before. Plants are mainly water wisteria (fast grower for me). Algae growth REALLY fell off also, so it's been a perfect light for maintaining that tank for me. (low light, low tech, no CO2, limited ferts, etc.)


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

Very nice. The colors seem to lean on the warm side.

What do you guys think about two stingrays on a 55? I'm guessing since it's so weak(around 20 par).. having two would put a 55 in the upper-low light range.


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## badbart (Jul 28, 2009)

jcmv4792 said:


> Very nice. The colors seem to lean on the warm side.
> 
> What do you guys think about two stingrays on a 55? I'm guessing since it's so weak(around 20 par).. having two would put a 55 in the upper-low light range.


Thanks, i love the color it gives the shrimp and fish makes the reds really pop. As for growing plants i have no idea these other guys would be more qualified to answer.


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## Oso Polar (Apr 22, 2015)

Stingray light is definitely *not *on the warm side. It produces cold, blueish light. One of the reasons I passed on it.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Agreed, the overall spectrum of the Stingray is definitely on the blue side... However it does have an enhanced red relative to other high-kelvin lights, which makes red things pop in it.. I find it overall pleasant, but not warm..

I did a shot of my two tanks a while back, one with Planted+ and the other with stingray.. The color of the light-spill on the wall is very telling... (both are painted the same)










A thread on it:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=854297&highlight=


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

mattinmd said:


> Agreed, the overall spectrum of the Stingray is definitely on the blue side... However it does have an enhanced red relative to other high-kelvin lights, which makes red things pop in it.. I find it overall pleasant, but not warm..
> 
> I did a shot of my two tanks a while back, one with Planted+ and the other with stingray.. The color of the light-spill on the wall is very telling... (both are painted the same)
> 
> ...


I guess it was just his photo that made it look that way. The color still looks very nice in your setup as well. I would have expected it to be much dimmer.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Ok, I should disclaim that the planted+ has my dimmer hack on it and is running at 90%. So that's not a normal planted+ brightness wise. I was more comparing the color temperature...


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

mattinmd said:


> Ok, I should disclaim that the planted+ has my dimmer hack on it and is running at 90%. So that's not a normal planted+ brightness wise. I was more comparing the color temperature...


I meant that the stingray looked brighter than expected.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Fair enough. I thought you might have been using the planted+ as a reference point to come to that judgement.

As for the little tank, yes, the stingray is quite bright on it.. That tank is only 10 gallons, and thus only 12" tall... So that's what about 40 PAR looks like.

There's also a little bit of exaggeration of the lights due to the shooting circumstances... That shot is taken at night, with all thelights in the room other than the tank lights off. Thus, the surroundings are actually very dark, they're not lit up and getting blown-out by the tanks..

Regardless, if you follow the link, grizzly_a posted a series of shots on it comparing Stingray, Planted+ and Ray2 on the same tank.. probably a better tool for judging brightness..


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## 2-dimples (Sep 7, 2015)

*What did you end up going with?*

I would also like to upgrade my lighting for my low tech planted 29 gallon tank. The local fish store recommended the Finnex Stingray, but I also was concerned about it being too dark for plant growth. They said he planted plus might cause algae issues in my low tech tank....curious to see how it turned out. Also, did you doing anything different to the top of your aquarium? I have an older campy with the fluorescent light fixture sitting on top. Did you do a versa top or go open?


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## badbart (Jul 28, 2009)

2-dimples said:


> I would also like to upgrade my lighting for my low tech planted 29 gallon tank. The local fish store recommended the Finnex Stingray, but I also was concerned about it being too dark for plant growth. They said he planted plus might cause algae issues in my low tech tank....curious to see how it turned out. Also, did you doing anything different to the top of your aquarium? I have an older campy with the fluorescent light fixture sitting on top. Did you do a versa top or go open?


I had a planted plus on my 55 gallon low tech and it caused algae but my stingray worked no alage and looked great.


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