# Cerges' Reactor - DIY Inline CO2 Reactor



## Craigthor

Have to thank our Russian friends for this one. After playing with the Rex Griggs reactor I wanted to try something else. Principal and cost are about the same design is different.

http://translate.google.com/transla...yjj_reaktor_so2.html&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

What you will need:

Omni OB1 Series A House Filter
2- 1/2" Male Threaded Adaptors with Barb end
2- 3/4" 90 degree Street fitting
2- 3/4" PVC Male Adaptor
2- 3/4" x 1/2" PVC Bushing
1- 3/4" CPVC Coupling - Note this has to be *CPVC* not _PVC_ as the PVC fittings are too big
1- 6 3/4" x 3/4" CPVC Pipe - Again has to be *CPVC *and not _PVC_
PVC Primer and Cement
CO2 Tubing
Teflon Thread Tape
Scissors
Needle Nose Pliers
Filter Tubing
Drill and Drill bit for your CO2 Tubing

Total cost as ~ $23 each about the same as the Rex Griggs inline reactor if you don't use clear pvc.

Filter Housing:


























Start by removing the Priming Button via the screw on the inside of the lid for the housing:


















Drill out the hole to accept your CO2 tubing this hole shpould be smaller then your CO2 Tubing so it creates its' own seal. 










Cut the CO2 tubing at a sharp angle so you can stick it through and pull it with the needle nose pliers. This should be slightly tough to pull through as it will create a seal as you pull the tubing through.


























Cut the CPVC pipe off at 6 3/4", if you are using a different filter you may have to adjust the cut off length. I cut mine so it was about 3/4" off the bottom. Push the CPVC coupler over the nipple in the lid, should fit really snug. Then push the CPVC pipe into the coupler. I didn't glue this together as it was a snug fit and should be under little pressure.


















Lay out and glue the fittings together, with the fitting I chose you won't need any extra 3/4" pipe as all the fittings go together.


























Attach the fittings to each side jsut make sure you hook them up according to the Flow marking on the lid. Finished Product.










I will update tomorrow once I install these as to how effective they are, but based on looks they should function really well. According to the article I linked to about he got a .5 PH change in a matter of minutes.

Craig


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## jmowbray

Can you tell me where to find clear filter housing?


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## Craigthor

jmowbray said:


> Can you tell me where to find clear filter housing?


 
I just bought what was at the store, they had a clear filter housing but it was over $30 compared to the solid one I bought for $15


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## jmowbray

Can't wait for the update. I have seen other threads on these and they seem to work real well. aquariumplants.com seem to think so to:https://www.aquariumplants.com/AquariumPlants_com_s_Own_External_Reactor_p/ext5000.htm

The only difference is that they use a power head in the bottom to create more movement. They also add a sponge to keep the bubbles in the canister. Even if you went with the clear housing it would still be cheaper than the price they have listed.


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## shane3fan

I have been thinking of something like this--I wonder if a ceramic diffusor attached to the end of the hose inside of the housing would make any difference? Or would that be wasted time and energy--I guess trying it is the only way to know.


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## Craigthor

shane3fan said:


> I have been thinking of something like this--I wonder if a ceramic diffusor attached to the end of the hose inside of the housing would make any difference? Or would that be wasted time and energy--I guess trying it is the only way to know.


I don't think I would want to have to take it apart that often as the disk would probably need cleaned every so often.


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## Elohim_Meth

Just one warning. If you've got a clear housing, don't tighten the lid too much, it may crack. I've cracked one housing already...


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## OverStocked

I use to use a series of these filters with a mag drive pump to filter a 55g tank. They worked great. Media was cheap. Flow was great. If you look around online you can find them wicked cheap.


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## nokturnalkid

Interesting. Never thought to use one of those things for a reactor. I wonder how flow will be affected, if any, by this reactor. I hate how pvc reactors decrease the flow of the pumps. Please report on how efficient this reactor is. I got one in the shed that I used to use to polish my water.


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## Craigthor

nokturnalkid said:


> Interesting. Never thought to use one of those things for a reactor. I wonder how flow will be affected, if any, by this reactor. I hate how pvc reactors decrease the flow of the pumps. Please report on how efficient this reactor is. I got one in the shed that I used to use to polish my water.


Having them both installed I don't notice alot of flow reduction, as far as efficency I will watch the tank tomorrow and see what happens.

Craig


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## nokturnalkid

Definately gonna keep my eye on this post. Maybe I'll just give this try anyways. I got a clear housing and it might be a bit easier to see how much co2 is actually being dissolved. I may even try it with a filter module so it can double as a water polisher.


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## Elohim_Meth

nokturnalkid said:


> I may even try it with a filter module so it can double as a water polisher.


I tried this but it got dirty in a few days (even being placed on the output of canister filter), and starting to reduce the flow.


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## Craigthor

Day 1 a couple of observations:

Flow seems much higher then when I was running the Rex Inline Reactor. I have Indian Almond Leaves in my tank that used to sit on the bottom now they are all jumbled around, may have to crank my 2217's back a little bit. 

CO2 seems to disolve better at the same bubble count as before. My drop checkers which remained nice and green have now taken on more of a yellowish tint to them. I will confirm this later this week as I will replace the fluid in both counters out of a fresh 4 DkH Indicator from Cal Aqua.

Craig


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## redman88

use a drop checker to check your CO2 levels i have one of these style recators and at a high bubble count the CO2 collects at the top.


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## Craigthor

redman88 said:


> use a drop checker to check your CO2 levels i have one of these style recators and at a high bubble count the CO2 collects at the top.


I've got 2 drop checkers one on each side of the tank.

Craig


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## hbosman

subscribed


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## Gatekeeper

One reccomendation, no need to drill into the housing, a simple inline tee/barb setup on the inlet hose would have dragged the CO2 into the filter just as effectively. Some media in there to brak up the bubbles and you have a filter/CO2 reactor.

Very cool though Craig.


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## Hoppy

Why use two elbows on the filter head? You would get less head loss with straight fittings, with the hoses curved over a large radius. (Assuming you have enough room to do that.) This almost has to work very well. and it should keep the CO2 bubbles from escaping at a higher bubble rate than the usual DIY reactor does. If I used CO2 now I would definitely make one of these.


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## Craigthor

Gatekeeper said:


> One reccomendation, no need to drill into the housing, a simple inline tee/barb setup on the inlet hose would have dragged the CO2 into the filter just as effectively. Some media in there to brak up the bubbles and you have a filter/CO2 reactor.
> 
> Very cool though Craig.


Unfortunately with the space restrictions and really short tubing I have there was no room. I'm really impressed with this setup as a reactor, flow is much less restricted and CO2 diffusion is just as good if not better then the PVC reactors I was using.



Hoppy said:


> Why use two elbows on the filter head? You would get less head loss with straight fittings, with the hoses curved over a large radius. (Assuming you have enough room to do that.) This almost has to work very well. and it should keep the CO2 bubbles from escaping at a higher bubble rate than the usual DIY reactor does. If I used CO2 now I would definitely make one of these.


The 2 Elbows was a space issue. With everything plumbed through the bottom of the tank I have very short hoses and little room to work once I have everything Eheim 2217, CO2 Reactor, Inline heater plus the UV.

Craig


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## hbosman

Craig,

Do you not have a large CO2 bubble build up under the lid? Kind of like what happens when you inject co2 into a canister filter? Did you adjust your bubble rate any when you went from a PVC reactor to a Cerge reactor?


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## Craigthor

hbosman said:


> Craig,
> 
> Do you not have a large CO2 bubble build up under the lid? Kind of like what happens when you inject co2 into a canister filter? Did you adjust your bubble rate any when you went from a PVC reactor to a Cerge reactor?


Nope left the bubble rate the same, drop checker jsut get slightly more yellowish then before, flow is probably 20% greater though as it was picking up all my IAL that were on the bottom of the tank and blowing them around which never happened with the Inline PVC Reactor. Only time I have gotten a build up was yesterday when I had the filters off but forgot to turn the CO2 system off with the tank mostly drained for 2 hours while catching out my Albis. It went away about an hour after the filters were on, the water comes in at the highest point in the filter I'm using so any CO2 that would build up is constantly meeting the incoming water so I don't see it being possible to build up much excess CO2 there. 

The fish didn't mind the slight increase in CO2 so I just left it turned up, I could probably turn it down some but don't really see the need unless I absolutely have to.

Craig


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## hbosman

Craigthor said:


> Nope left the bubble rate the same, drop checker jsut get slightly more yellowish then before, flow is probably 20% greater though as it was picking up all my IAL that were on the bottom of the tank and blowing them around which never happened with the Inline PVC Reactor. Only time I have gotten a build up was yesterday when I had the filters off but forgot to turn the CO2 system off with the tank mostly drained for 2 hours while catching out my Albis. It went away about an hour after the filters were on, the water comes in at the highest point in the filter I'm using so any CO2 that would build up is constantly meeting the incoming water so I don't see it being possible to build up much excess CO2 there.
> 
> The fish didn't mind the slight increase in CO2 so I just left it turned up, I could probably turn it down some but don't really see the need unless I absolutely have to.
> 
> Craig


Ok, you convinced me! I have to try this. Thanks alot.


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## Craigthor

hbosman said:


> Ok, you convinced me! I have to try this. Thanks alot.


Let me know how yours comes out. I really like teh flow rate increase I got wiht mine.

Craig


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## hbosman

Craigthor said:


> Let me know how yours comes out. I really like teh flow rate increase I got wiht mine.
> 
> Craig


I will definitely post my results. I have space issues to deal with as well so, It will take some head scratching.


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## Craigthor

hbosman said:


> I will definitely post my results. I have space issues to deal with as well so, It will take some head scratching.


Nice thing is it doesn't take up much more space then the Inline PVC reactors do.

Left side:


























Right Side:


























Craig


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## hbosman

Craigthor said:


> Nice thing is it doesn't take up much more space then the Inline PVC reactors do.
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> Craig


Man! It would be hard to make it look better than that, just awesome.


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## enlender

how would this do if i threw a heater in there? any ideas on that?


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## Craigthor

enlender said:


> how would this do if i threw a heater in there? any ideas on that?


You could try it and find out....


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## farmhand

Craigthor said:


> You could try it and find out....


I'd say we would all like you to try it so we could find out. :icon_smil


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## CL

Neat. Reminds me of how my Rena canisters are designed.


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## Craigthor

farmhand said:


> I'd say we would all like you to try it so we could find out. :icon_smil


I already use inline heaters so no need to for me to try it out.


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## Jeff5614

I made one of these reactors at the first of the week and was impressed with it. I did go with Gatekeeper's suggestion of an inline tee instead of drilling into the housing. It was easy to put together and it actually increased the flow out of the canister. I used it for a day and then decided to try using my canister as a reactor with the inline tee on the input side of my filter. It's working well too and I'm sticking with that at least for now.

I said all that just to say if you're wanting to try an inline reactor then give this a try instead of a PVC reactor. It was very easy to set up and pretty efficient along with maintaining better flow, at least for me.


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## redman88

this i how mine is setup


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## enlender

so if i drill a hole in the top and silicone the cord from an submersible heater threw it and then fill and plug in should be ok? just asking because like everyone else wants to get rid of tank clutter and i just got a co2 reg so im trying to decide how im going to diffuse still


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## Craigthor

enlender said:


> so if i drill a hole in the top and silicone the cord from an submersible heater threw it and then fill and plug in should be ok? just asking because like everyone else wants to get rid of tank clutter and i just got a co2 reg so im trying to decide how im going to diffuse still


Can't tell you if it would be OK or not, only way to find out is experiment yourself. Give it a try and let us know how it goes. Myself I prefer the Inline Hydor so have no reason to experiment with this.

Criag


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## farmhand

Craigthor said:


> Myself I prefer the Inline Hydor...
> Criag


IYO; would this be overkill for a 20 long?


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## Craigthor

farmhand said:


> IYO; would this be overkill for a 20 long?


Nope I used one on my Mini M when I had it.


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## Hoppy

CO2 reactors can build up a big bubble of CO2 and other gases, often in one day. If you have a heater in there, much of the heater may be in gas, not water, which would cause it to overheat, or shut down. For that reason I don't think combining this reactor with a heater in the same housing would be a good idea.


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## enlender

thanks hoppy


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## jmowbray

Well I put mine together Friday and it's now Monday and the drop checker is holding green even with a DIY bottle setup. This reactor is amazing!!!!!


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## Craigthor

jmowbray said:


> Well I put mine together Friday and it's now Monday and the drop checker is holding green even with a DIY bottle setup. This reactor is amazing!!!!!


 
They are really efficient. I've had to turn mine way back otherwise it was starting to stress the fish out as it would turn almost clear on the settings for my old inline reactor that stayed light green. 

Craig


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## Craigthor

jmowbray said:


> Well I put mine together Friday and it's now Monday and the drop checker is holding green even with a DIY bottle setup. This reactor is amazing!!!!!


Oh yeah I want some Honey!


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## Praw

Craigthor said:


> I just bought what was at the store, they had a clear filter housing but it was over $30 compared to the solid one I bought for $15


Which store might this be, just out of curiosity? I can find these online but I don't seem them on either Lowe's or Home Depot's site.


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## fiftyfiveG

Craigthor...nice and clean setup. Where did you get that dual buble counters setup?

As for inline reactor, I used the Rex's inline reactor with eheim 2260 canister filter so I don't have problem with flow rate.


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## jmowbray

Praw said:


> Which store might this be, just out of curiosity? I can find these online but I don't seem them on either Lowe's or Home Depot's site.


They have them at the Home Depot store I never seen them online either.


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## scapegoat

this looks really interesting... and rather easy. however, being new to co2, would you be willing to provide a diagram as to how this is set up?

what goes where? what line comes from what and goes to what? etc. if you could do that i think that would be very much appreciated by everyone and be extremely useful!


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## milesm

scapegoatw said:


> this looks really interesting... and rather easy. however, being new to co2, would you be willing to provide a diagram as to how this is set up?
> 
> what goes where? what line comes from what and goes to what? etc. if you could do that i think that would be very much appreciated by everyone and be extremely useful!


please read the entire thread--what you are asking will be answered.


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## scapegoat

it may appear rather straight forward from reading the thread. but i've yet to set up a CO2 system for my tank and am in the process of doing research on the best solution... this one appears to be the easiest and one of the more efficient set ups.

however, most of "how to's" are really lacking in a detailed description of how they are set up. "you put this in there and you're done", but i'm not sure what this or there is.

a simple drawn diagram, similar to an electrical diagram for a car's wiring system, would make things a lot simpler to follow for someone like myself... and probably a lot of people. I think it'd be a great service to the community as well, and i'd be happy to do one myself if i knew what i was doing.

from what i can tell from the pictures, water goes into the filter, then out and into the CO2 reactor, which fills with the filtered water and CO2 and then that "mix" exits the reactor and goes to the tank? is it really that simple and straight forward?


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## fresh.salty

Why would this have less of an impact on flow vs a DIY reactor?

From what I can tell the water enters at the top, slams into an internal elbow and down the added PVC extension. Water comes out of the PVC and slams into the bottom of the canister and then exits out the top going through a second internal 90°.


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## jmowbray

scapegoatw said:


> this looks really interesting... and rather easy. however, being new to co2, would you be willing to provide a diagram as to how this is set up?
> 
> what goes where? what line comes from what and goes to what? etc. if you could do that i think that would be very much appreciated by everyone and be extremely useful!


Check out my journal and you can see it inline. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...bum/112783-jmowbrays-hi-tech-72-bowfront.html


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## scapegoat

jmowbray said:


> Check out my journal and you can see it inline.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...bum/112783-jmowbrays-hi-tech-72-bowfront.html


thank you, very useful.


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## milesm

scapegoatw said:


> thank you, very useful.


i think the picture in post #33 by redman is far, far clearer than jmow's. not to flame jmow, but he's got so many hoses going all over the place i don't know how a noob can find it useful. 

redman's picture shows that indeed you are correct when you say


scapegoatw said:


> from what i can tell from the pictures, water goes into the filter, then out and into the CO2 reactor, which fills with the filtered water and CO2 and then that "mix" exits the reactor and goes to the tank? is it really that simple and straight forward?


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## Quesenek

fresh.salty said:


> Why would this have less of an impact on flow vs a DIY reactor?
> 
> From what I can tell the water enters at the top, slams into an internal elbow and down the added PVC extension. Water comes out of the PVC and slams into the bottom of the canister and then exits out the top going through a second internal 90°.


Got it backwards comes in through a hole in the top and goes up through the PVC tube on top of that it's under pressure.

Praw, http://www.lowes.com/pd_89374-59019...294822071 4294965476_4294937087_?rpp=15$No=15


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## DevonCloud

scapegoatw said:


> it may appear rather straight forward from reading the thread. but i've yet to set up a CO2 system for my tank and am in the process of doing research on the best solution... this one appears to be the easiest and one of the more efficient set ups.
> 
> however, most of "how to's" are really lacking in a detailed description of how they are set up. "you put this in there and you're done", but i'm not sure what this or there is.
> 
> a simple drawn diagram, similar to an electrical diagram for a car's wiring system, would make things a lot simpler to follow for someone like myself... and probably a lot of people. I think it'd be a great service to the community as well, and i'd be happy to do one myself if i knew what i was doing.
> 
> from what i can tell from the pictures, water goes into the filter, then out and into the CO2 reactor, which fills with the filtered water and CO2 and then that "mix" exits the reactor and goes to the tank? is it really that simple and straight forward?


It's actually just that simple. The concept is that water coming from the return (back into your tank) on the canister is sent through the top of the reactor and out through the bottom. However, the CO2 is fed in through the side either at the top, middle, or bottom, and the CO2 bubble is then pummeled by the water, thus breaking it up and dissolving it.


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## wakesk8r

would there be any negative affect to leaving the prime button and drilling a hole for co2 line?
I have to shut my intake pump down during water changes. It's much easier to start up again if i can prime it


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## Jeff5614

blue-ram said:


> would there be any negative affect to leaving the prime button and drilling a hole for co2 line?
> I have to shut my intake pump down during water changes. It's much easier to start up again if i can prime it


You could attach a tee on the inlet to the reactor if you don't want to drill.


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## Quesenek

blue-ram said:


> would there be any negative affect to leaving the prime button and drilling a hole for co2 line?
> I have to shut my intake pump down during water changes. It's much easier to start up again if i can prime it


I don't know about other models but on mine the "prime" button they have is nothing more than a screw with a small piece of rubber on it to keep water from pouring out of the hole from the pressure. Hope that helped.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JasonC

I think there was one post saying they were using this reactor with DIY Co2... is there really no reason that this shouldn't work w/ yeast bottles? Could this really be the solution I have been hoping for?


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## Quesenek

JasonC said:


> I think there was one post saying they were using this reactor with DIY Co2... is there really no reason that this shouldn't work w/ yeast bottles? Could this really be the solution I have been hoping for?


I don't see why not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greyskull

*Thanks*

I used your idea today and built the reactor, it's works great. I hooked it up to my FX5 filter.

Thanks for the idea.


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## newday3000

shane3fan said:


> I wonder if a ceramic diffusor attached to the end of the hose inside of the housing would make any difference? Or would that be wasted time and energy
> 
> 
> 
> I built one of these back in March and have been using it ever since. My thread is here
> 
> I tried the ceramic disk inside and the tiny bubles got sucked up into the outlet too easily. bigger bubbles worked better versus a fine mist from the disk. I also tried a micron cartridge to trap CO2 inside the chamber which worked fine but the micron cartridge clogged and started to grow algea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use a dedicated pump to work the reactor which I think is best to avoid impact flow on my canister filter. I get really good CO2 circulation around the tank 4' 75G.
> 
> I now chop bubles on intake of powerhead to the inlet of the reactor and use long tubing to pull water from the bottom of the chamber.
> 
> I find this system works great, I have cheap home filters at Canadiantire in Canada that are clear so I can see CO2 bubbles inside the chamber. I can also vent the excess CO2 or air out of the chamber with a button on the top of the filter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got a 10# CO2 tank to last over 5 months on a 75G with this diffuser running with a PH controller.
Click to expand...


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## Quesenek

Hi all, I tried mine out today after a month of collecting Co2 equips and the cerges reactor that I built leaks the Co2 into my tank for some reason even after I put PVC pipe glue on the top of the output connection where the coupling is.

I'm not by any means saying it's a bad reactor since it still turned my drop checker lime green in a matter of 2-3 hours with 3BPS.

Just an update for you guys.


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## fjf888

How does the Cerges reactor compare to Tom Barr's DIY venturi reactor? Could you do a venturi loop for this one as well, I don't see why not, other than perhaps its not necessary.

Thanks

Fred


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## dtilley

I have one of these as a DIY canister filter/CO2 reactor on my 20L powered by a maxijet 600 ran externally. runs terrific and dissolves all CO2 that is pumped into it



Quesenek said:


> Hi all, I tried mine out today after a month of collecting Co2 equips and the cerges reactor that I built leaks the Co2 into my tank for some reason even after I put PVC pipe glue on the top of the output connection where the coupling is.
> 
> I'm not by any means saying it's a bad reactor since it still turned my drop checker lime green in a matter of 2-3 hours with 3BPS.
> 
> Just an update for you guys.


maybe try putting some filter media in it to help break the CO2 up a little bit. I was getting little bubbles coming out of the outflow until I did this


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## smg980

The reactor is supposed to go on the outflow side of the canister, correct?


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## smg980

smg980 said:


> The reactor is supposed to go on the outflow side of the canister, correct?


As depicted in this drawing?


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## Cryptocoryne

Where ya buy the Omni housing? Can ya get them at Home Depot?


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## nokturnalkid

Any water filter housing that you can find at a hardware store will work fine.


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## hbosman

This is the one I just set up:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I am using it with a 80 gph water pump. It dissolves CO2 just fine but, I just ordered a 200 gph water pump to increase the circulation.


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## thrak76

Is there a disadvantage to using a smaller filter housing, say 5-6" housing, versus the size that has been shown so far? I came across this filter housing while researching this topic. The inlets are 3/8", so that could be a disadvantage for some. But... it's just a bit over 7" long. This could help to save some space in the stand.


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## Tunze

I think there would be less contact time with the Co2 and the water in the reactor. You might also get more micro bubbles in the outflow.
I'm using one of the full sized ones with the clear housing and really think this is the best designed reactor yet.




thrak76 said:


> Is there a disadvantage to using a smaller filter housing, say 5-6" housing, versus the size that has been shown so far?


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## hbosman

hbosman said:


> This is the one I just set up:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
> 
> I am using it with a 80 gph water pump. It dissolves CO2 just fine but, I just ordered a 200 gph water pump to increase the circulation.


I tried the 200 gph water pump and it was noisier and released a lot of bubbles into the aquarium so, I went back to the 80 gph pump and it works better. The Cerge reactor works well to dissolve CO2 but still spits out bulbs and a little mist. Much less mist than a powerhead with the split impeller mod. I wouldn't try a smaller housing, I think it will release quite a lot of bubbles.


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## Sundance2010

My canister filter has 5/8" ID hose and I can't find the barbed fitting like the ones used here. Have tried HD, Orchard supply and Lowes. Does anyone know where to get a 3/4 threaded to 5/8" barbed fitting?


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## Tunze

Sundance2010 said:


> Does anyone know where to get a 3/4 threaded to 5/8" barbed fitting?



You should be able to find one locally if not here is a link
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=6337017.14164&product=Barbs-Nylon


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## milesm

Tunze said:


> I think there would be less contact time with the Co2 and the water in the reactor. You might also get more micro bubbles in the outflow.
> I'm using one of the full sized ones with the clear housing and really think this is the best designed reactor yet.


how much water are you pushing through your reactor? thanks.


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## Tunze

Honestly, I don't know how much water I'm moving thru it.
I'm using a Ehiem 2229 but that is also pushing water thru my inline heater as well.




milesm said:


> how much water are you pushing through your reactor? thanks.


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## jcran17

For those of you that are using this reactor, are you having any issues with micro bubbles? I am currently using a Barr venturi internal and am tired of all the bubbles.

I am trying to decide whether to build one of these or the Rex PVC reactor and plan to run it with a Eheim 2213. 

This is my first post. I am a member of APC and posted there, but didn't get any feedback. The main thread is here, so I figure this may be more fruitful. Thanks


----------



## hbosman

I am currently using a Cerge Reactor with an 80 gph water pump. I still get some mist and occasionally larger bubbles will spit out. I tried a larger pump (200 Gph) and that just blew large bubbles everywhere. So, what I have learned is, this reactor works well, dissolves CO2 well, but the flow shouldn't be too strong. It still mists a little bit but not nearly as much as using a split impeller mod. I think it is slightly more efficient with CO2 usage than a split impeller. If you have strong water flow, I would try the Rex style reactor but, don't make it too short. If you are using it inline with a canister filter, a Cerge would work well.

I hope this helps.


----------



## jcran17

hbosman said:


> I hope this helps.


It does help a bit. My canister is probably running at around 80gph so this is a good comparison. I have read that micro bubbles (mist) are nearly non-existent with Rex's though. I wonder if any others have tried both for comparison...?


----------



## zavikan

One person posted earlier and no one replied... I would agree that the efficiency on one of these in my mind should be absolute crap. internal 90º turn slams into the bottom of the filter and another internal 90º out. 

How could this possibly be more efficent then a rex style reactor??? I would think the flow would be alot worse then a rex, and certainly not BETTER...

Im not saying that Im infaliable, im jsut sayin I dont see how I could be ehre...


----------



## hbosman

I went back to misting. The Cerge Reactor's gurgling sound was driving me crazy. Split Impeller Mods make noise too so, I put A Boyu inline diffuser on the input of the powerhead and hid it behind some stem plants. Now it's quiet again and the 4 kdh drop checkers are still yellowish without adjusting the needle valve and Regulator. So, I'm back to misting. The plants do start pearling much sooner as well.


Another $40.00 experiment down the tubes. :-(


----------



## milesm

jcran17 said:


> It does help a bit. My canister is probably running at around 80gph so this is a good comparison. I have read that micro bubbles (mist) are nearly non-existent with Rex's though. I wonder if any others have tried both for comparison...?


i haven't tried one of these cerges reactors, but i do run a rex style design (floor standing) with tom barr's dual venturi mod. i am running 230gph through it. the total height of the reactor is just under 17". with tom's mod turned off (or early on in the co2 injection period) i get just a little misting. i don't use drop checkers. i get pearling 2 to 3 hours after lights on (co2 comes on when lights come on). growth is consistent at a moderate rate.


----------



## jimmah

Been using one of these for a while with an XP2. After I installed an inline heater(5/8 one to match with tubing), a few days later I had CO2 bubbling out into the tank. I do have some media in the reactor, messed around with the BPM and nothing has helped. I'm thinking maybe the tubing inside is clogged but that will have to wait til tomorrow. From people have experience that this works better with lower GPH. Any ideas?
jimmy


----------



## jcran17

jimmah said:


> Been using one of these for a while with an XP2. After I installed an inline heater(5/8 one to match with tubing), a few days later I had CO2 bubbling out into the tank. I do have some media in the reactor, messed around with the BPM and nothing has helped. I'm thinking maybe the tubing inside is clogged but that will have to wait til tomorrow. From people have experience that this works better with lower GPH. Any ideas?
> jimmy


So, are you saying you had no issues with misting prior to adding the heater?


----------



## jimmah

Figured it out. I have a small powerhead in there and it was extremely dirty


----------



## darkoon

I set up the same thing, but water in the canister would never fill up because the pressure/air in the canister will push water through the output tube before the canister is filled with water.


----------



## Joe.1

I've been using one of these for a couple of weeks now. I'm very impressed with it.


----------



## DMRaver

I'll be building either one of these or Rex's in near future. Keeping an eye on this thread...


----------



## maxima308

I've been debating on building a reactor like this or a Rex style. I would prefer not to see any micro bubbles in the tank. 

Which would be better?

What size filter would be recommended for 20L running on a XP1? I see both 5" & 10" water filter housings.


----------



## Dave-H

The rex griggs style rector works so well for me that I wouldn't bother building a cerges reactor. No bubbles in my tank at all.


----------



## OverStocked

I went back to my cerges reactor from misting. No noise. No bubbles. Plus I can easily clean it out whenever I want(not that it needs it). They are easier to build than a rex reactor, since all you do is snap a few things in place... I won't ever go back. The flow is better than my rex reactor ever had, too.


----------



## Greg Stephens

I prep'ed one of these this evening and will install it tomorrow morning.
I have been using an RG style reactor, and am making the change because it will allow me to see whats happening inside the reactor (clear sump) and use a valved bypass line to tune it like i did with my RG style unit. 
I will snap some pics once it's up and running.


----------



## Dave-H

You will like having the ability to watch the CO2 bubbles bouncing around. I have a clear RG inline reactor and I really like it. Also I can see the bubbles coming out of the CO2 so it's also an additional bubble counter.


----------



## Greg Stephens

Yeah that's the idea I am suspecting that there is some gas left in the reactor.
So I would like to work out turning off the gas so it is gone by the time the light goes off to keep things a bit more stable for the fish's.

I have the new unit installed and running so pics are coming.


----------



## Greg Stephens




----------



## inkslinger

I've read it all great post!
I had this vision I saw a reactor being sold on ebay only and it's made over seas. 

IMO:
I saw a nice home water filter {Large w/1in in/out and clear housing} in Lows.
Is it possible to reverse the intake and inter in the center with a cap end and 
drill good size holes on a circle pattern going down to the bottom and the flow will exit out the top?
It should create a lot turbulence to dissolve the co2 but would not know how much back pressure it would cause ? , Pump size I would not know how much? , I'm running a BL 55 HD with a Mazzie and Nu-Clear filters but soon to replace with ether a Eheim pro 3 or FX5 {see how money issue is next month}.

What do think!!


----------



## Gatekeeper

Thats nifty ink. Does it work?


----------



## OverStocked

I had one of those reactors that I sold. The hoses were too small for me to use. They were pretty nice quality though, but are smaller than a whole house filter. Not sure if it matters. 

The only downside I can really see with them is they don't "mount" to the stand and I like that.


----------



## inkslinger

OverStocked said:


> I had one of those reactors that I sold. The hoses were too small for me to use. They were pretty nice quality though, but are smaller than a whole house filter. Not sure if it matters.
> 
> The only downside I can really see with them is they don't "mount" to the stand and I like that.


The house filter that I saw at Lows was large {$54.} 1in in/out w/clear container, I would think the hole size would have to be around 1/8 or 1/4 inch in a downward curve {like a thread} to create a whirlpool affect . It looks like in this pic that a Eheim spray bar was use for the output .


----------



## OverStocked

The reactor in this pic is a commercial product. Those tubes are smaller than any eheim spraybar I've seen. It is about half the size of the average house filter.


----------



## hbosman

Greg,

Do you have a tube running down into the clear housing? I can't see one if you do. If so, how long did you make it?


----------



## DvsDev

The commercially bought co2 "mixer" that is shown on post #96 with the "small inlets and no stand adaptor", has anyone tried one?
I'm currently using a red sea 500 reactor on my 75g and those ones listed are now available in my country but I don't know if it's worth buying one?
Before anyone says to make a RG or Cerges one I have been pricing it up here and I'm looking at about $120-150 to make one here.
Funny enough buying one premade is under 1/3 of that price


----------



## JCoxRocks

Built my first Cerges reactor today. Slighty different from the OP as the priming button is located on the inlet instead of the middle of the top. This might actually be better as the co2 will be introduced right where the inflow enters the reactor. I'm trying to decide whether or not to use bioballs or something similar inside the reactor. I hope to hook everything up Saturday night. I'm currently waiting on the pvc to cure and fume out so it doesnt harm my shrimp.

I'll try to post up some photos of the setup when installed.

J


----------



## DvsDev

I'd say run with nothing inside the reactor, anything inside will increase resistance which can be more of a negative in the long run (extra load on pump).
Plus the bio balls will displace the volume of water which could actually encourage the co2 to be pushed into the tank as the speed of water could be increased due to the smaller chamber size.


----------



## MoeBetta

I have a couple sponges in there so that if I need to set up a small tank they'll already be seeded.

Any problems with this logic?


----------



## bigtex52

I continue to have small bubbles ejected from mine. I have tried sponges, bio balls and nothing with the same results. I have this on the return flow of an Eheim 2080. Could the amount of flow be my problem? I believe the flow specs are 270 gallons/hr less any reduction for head loss.


----------



## DvsDev

Possibly your canister is too short if bubbles are escaping, you could run a bypass to reduce flow to the reactor without it affecting flow from the filter, or get a longer body.
By rights the CO2 should accumulate around the top of the reactor and the water swirls around it, this is how diffusion is done, with too much flow the vortex would force the bubble down.


----------



## JCoxRocks

I've installed both my reactors and my only complaint is that they seem to develop an air pocket in the top causing some gurgling. Any ideas how to reduce this?

J


----------



## hbosman

JCoxRocks said:


> I've installed both my reactors and my only complaint is that they seem to develop an air pocket in the top causing some gurgling. Any ideas how to reduce this?
> 
> J


That's what I experienced. I tried a bigger water pump ant that increased the noise and bubbles spitting out. The noise was driving me crazy and I personally didn't find it that efficient. I am now using an UpAqua inline diffuser. It's much quieter and the plants respond well to the mist flowing everywhere. the disadvantage with the diffuser, you see the mist flowing everywhere. I might give the PVC pipe reactor a try again. They work well but, I found them to gurgle and mist with higher bubble rates as well.


----------



## JCoxRocks

I can stand the gurgle without the mist. I prefer a little gurgle to a tank full of 7up. I can live with the noise with no problem. Just wondered if there was a quick fix.

J


----------



## macclellan

I had noise for the first day, then the air worked it's way out of the system. Are you guys sure that all your fittings are nice and righty-tighty?


----------



## JCoxRocks

macclellan said:


> I had noise for the first day, then the air worked it's way out of the system. Are you guys sure that all your fittings are nice and righty-tighty?


I'm sure on mine. I'll wait it out overnight when the co2 shuts off and we'll see what happens. Might tilt the reator around a bit. Having the pick up tube in the bottom of the reactor makes it a little tougher to get all the air out.

J


----------



## Tbakes

I just set one of these up tonight w/ an opaque 20 dollar special from Lowes. Seemed to have an initial air bolus that once cleared, minimized noise. I do notice a few small bubbles on the exit, but will allow the unit to run overnight w/out CO2 to see if it clears up (only ran it with CO2 for about 20 minutes to test it out).

I am injecting the CO2 on the venturi inlet on a maxi-jet 1200 powerhead which I am using as the pump. I fear that the flow rate might be too high, causing incomplete dissolution. I will tinker with it on Friday and report on the results.

Cheers
Tony


----------



## hbosman

Tbakes said:


> I just set one of these up tonight w/ an opaque 20 dollar special from Lowes. Seemed to have an initial air bolus that once cleared, minimized noise. I do notice a few small bubbles on the exit, but will allow the unit to run overnight w/out CO2 to see if it clears up (only ran it with CO2 for about 20 minutes to test it out).
> 
> I am injecting the CO2 on the venturi inlet on a maxi-jet 1200 powerhead which I am using as the pump. I fear that the flow rate might be too high, causing incomplete dissolution. I will tinker with it on Friday and report on the results.
> 
> Cheers
> Tony


I found that it worked better with a less powerful pump. When I tried a bigger one, it had a tendency to push the bubbles out more. Plus, it was much noisier.


----------



## Tbakes

Got home from work tonight and found the rotala in the tank was pearling quite nicely after its first full day of CO2. The return line from the reactor was not spitting out large bubbles, but every now and then I saw a tiny one slip by. Certainly not as many as the first day!

Please with the results so far. Am going to try upping the CO2 flow and slowing down the water flow rate when I have more time to tinker. Waiting for my drop checker on the slow boat from HK!


----------



## JCoxRocks

I'm also having good results after the first few days. Noise has quieted down a lot and I'm getting only a very slight mist in the tank. My 20 gal which is established is pearling like crazy from the amazon sword and the java moss. The 38 gal isnt pearling yet, but the tank has been set up for just a bit more than a week.

J


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## Quesenek

Here is a tip that I have found out in the seven months mine has been running. 
If you are having trouble with the micro bubbles simply wrap a bit of filter floss around the outside of the tube so that the water+Co2 has to pass through it completely in order for it to exit the canister.
You would think it would slow down the flow quite a bit but mine has the same flow with or without the floss all you have to do is clean it when you do a water change and your good to go.


----------



## Craigthor

Good to see people are having good luck with these. I may be adding CO2 back to my new setup and will definitely be using this style of reactor again. 

Craig


----------



## Gatekeeper

Agree Craig. Excellent product.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tbakes

Mine is doing well - seems very efficient based on my unscientific observation of gas consumption (bps) vs drop checker color. Plants still growing like mad. Need to get ferts right and fix some green water, but otherwise doing well in the grow-out tank.

I plan to use this style (1 or 2) to feed CO2 to my 178G tank once I work out plumbing and lighting.

-Tony


----------



## tharsis

yeah I have been running mine for almost a year now, I had it running with DIY CO2 in the beginning and now with CO2. I currently have it connected to the outflow of my eheim ecco as supplemental filtration. No complaints, it is efficient and quickly gets the CO2 into the tank.


----------



## Joe.1

I love this setup and so do my plants!!!


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## Craigthor

Just finished throwing another one of these together to replace the one I sold a few months back. Took longer to put it under the stand then to build it.  Now for my new filters to arrive so I can drain the tank change out a couple of hose barbs for 1"ers and reassemble. 

Craig


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## audioaficionado

I'll have to put one of these together as I'm on DIY CO2 and every bubble counts. I want the clear housing so I can see if I'm getting a gas pocket.


----------



## OverStocked

If you want one ready to go, let me know. I have one on the chopping block.


----------



## audioaficionado

Is it clear plastic?

BTW I was just looking at your sale and a search of the terms brought me back to this thread.


----------



## OverStocked

audioaficionado said:


> Is it clear plastic?
> 
> BTW I was just looking at your sale and a search of the terms brought me back to this thread.


It is blue plastic. I've opened it twice in 7 months. No cleaning required. This thing is so easy maintenance you'll never care. 

THe clear is for bling.... Mine has two brass on/off valves and is ready for whatever size hose barbs(I have some laying around in random sizes).


----------



## Gatekeeper

Bling!


----------



## audioaficionado

Very nice. How large is that purple filter casing?


----------



## HD Blazingwolf

if i might ask, what stores are you guys getting the filter housing from?


----------



## Craigthor

HD Blazingwolf said:


> if i might ask, what stores are you guys getting the filter housing from?


I got mien frmo Menards for $15 for the cannister.


----------



## xxxSHyXAxxx

Oh man I'm originally from IL and I'm now in Ca. I don't know if they have Menards out here. I haven't spotted one yet. It was a * to find a filter housing at the Lowes or Home Depot around here that was less than 30 bones. I don't know where else you guys are shopping but I was planning on building one of these and it would have cost me about $100 bucks because I would have had to buy so many fittings to get it down to 5/8" for my Fluval 305. I built my regulator set up expecting to save money but that didn't happen. Once again the fittings were 3-5 bucks each from Ace. Where am I going wrong here?


----------



## Craigthor

xxxSHyXAxxx said:


> Oh man I'm originally from IL and I'm now in Ca. I don't know if they have Menards out here. I haven't spotted one yet. It was a * find a filter housing at the Lowes or Home Depot around here that was less than 30 bones. I don't know where else you guys are shopping but I was planning on building one of these and it would have cost me about $100 bucks because I would have had to buy so many fittings to get it down to 5/8" for my Fluval 305. I built my regulator set up expecting to save money but that didn't happen. Once again the fittings were 3-5 bucks each from Ace. Where am I going wrong here?


ACE is expensive, I can build one from the ground up for $25 for all the parts.


----------



## xxxSHyXAxxx

do you get all of your stuff from Menards?


----------



## Craigthor

xxxSHyXAxxx said:


> do you get all of your stuff from Menards?


 
That I do. roud: There is one a 5 min drive away from me.


----------



## xxxSHyXAxxx

i miss Menards! how do you purge the air out of the reactor?


----------



## Craigthor

xxxSHyXAxxx said:


> i miss Menards! how do you purge the air out of the reactor?


 
All my plumbing is through the bottom of my tank. All I have to do is take apart a disconnect and open a valve and back flood the cannister.  Leaves no air bubbles that way.


----------



## xxxSHyXAxxx

thanks. it's so simple that i over thought it. i was trying to think of a way to do that. the Fluval 305 has a quick disconnect but it disconnects both lines at the same time and it will only go one way. i'll just add separate quick disconnects and ball valves to each line and switch them up when needed. i've literally spent weeks trying to figure out the best way to do it without makeing a huge mess. it's even harder because i don't have the reactor in front of me so i would have one more thing to try and visualize.


----------



## audioaficionado

If you don't remove the prime/purge button off the filter canister/reactor, you can purge the gas pocket.


----------



## Booger

My little mod: I am not a big fan of the tubing itself creating the seal. To me, this is a weak point and makes tinkering difficult.

I removed the pressure release and fit an AV1 nickel plated brass air valve from Jehmco. I had some leftover from my fish breeding days. This should allow me to pull the reactor or regulator setup out quickly and easily.

There was _just_ enough room to drill a 11/32" hole and squeeze a 1/8" tap in there (I'd probably go with 1/16" if I didn't already have the 1/8" valves collecting dust). I'm talking a mm or two, but it looks pro when finished. Use a generous amount of teflon tape and bob's your uncle. I'm really happy with how it turned out.


----------



## Craigthor

My only convern with valves like that is if they ever fail. Using the tubing pulled through to make a seal works well jsut a matter of getting the right sized hole for it to seal well but not be a real pain to pull through.

Craig


----------



## Booger

Craigthor said:


> My only convern with valves like that is if they ever fail. Using the tubing pulled through to make a seal works well jsut a matter of getting the right sized hole for it to seal well but not be a real pain to pull through.
> 
> Craig




I don't know that I'd trust them indefinitely, but I think it will be fine for short periods of time if I need to tweak something. I have a water alarm in the stand.

For what it's worth, I had 35 or 40 of these on a pvc air system (some off, some on, etc.) for years and never had one fail. I was more concerned about my shoddy tap skills, but it bit down nice and tight.


----------



## audioaficionado

@ Booger, very nice job on the CO2 injection port. roud:


----------



## audioaficionado

I inserted my CO2 line into the side of my inlet 90° EL using the compressed tubing through a smaller hole method. No leaks at that point. Like an O ring seals, it works.

However I did have some thread leaks because I didn't put a dozen layers of Teflon tape on them. 6 wasn't enough. Once I get those fixed, I'll take it out of it's bucket and get some pics.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

I'm not quite understanding how I would make one for a magnum 350 canister. I know my hoses are 5/8" and I have some elbow fittings from a rex grigg reactor. Just 3/4" NPT to 5/8" hose barb. Can these work? How would I go about building one using those?
Would a "Culligan HF-150A 3/4-Inch Whole House Sediment Water Filter" work? I found one of these and it looks similar to what the DIY shows. So besides the filter, what else do I need if I can use those fittings mentioned? Does regular PVC primer and cement work on on CPVC?


----------



## audioaficionado

3/4" NPT to 5/8" hose barb should work fine. Most of those house water filter housings don't require any gluing as everything in and out are threaded. I'm not sure what plastic my fittings are made of, but they are black and not PVC or CPVC. Probably polyethylene or polypropylene I'm guessing based on the light weight and general feel.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

I thought the DIY calls for cpvc inside the house filter. Do some of you just thread on elbow barbs directly onto the house filter?


----------



## audioaficionado

White PVC works too for the internals as long as it is cut to the same length as a spun filter cartridge and properly seated on both ends. Then holes are drilled towards the bottom that equal or exceed the cross-sectional area of the pipe. I just used a 90° 1" MxF NPT EL with a 1" M NPTx5/8" barb looking up on both sides so I could loop my hoses up and over. I'm not worried about any turbulence flow restrictions in the ELs as it's over sized compared to the hose and barbs anyway. The turbulence in the input EL is welcome as that is where I'm injecting the CO2.

*My Cerges' Reactor 7-8-11*


----------



## xxxSHyXAxxx

audioaficionado said:


> 3/4" NPT to 5/8" hose barb should work fine. Most of those house water filter housings don't require any gluing as everything in and out are threaded. *I'm not sure what plastic my fittings are made of, but they are black and not PVC or CPVC*. Probably polyethylene or polypropylene I'm guessing based on the light weight and general feel.


I used the same stuff. I couldn't find CPVC at the Home Depot next to my house so I used that stuff. I think it's ABS or one of the polys like you said. Either way the pvc primer and glue work fine. I found it in the irrigation section
I did have to use a schedule 40 pvc union to connect the outlet of the filter to the pipe. All I did was took the filter out of the box while I was in the store and pieced it all together. I couldn't find a filter that had the release valve on it so I used a T to connect the gas to the filter. I think I might prefer this better then drilling out the release valve because the "big" bubble is chopped up a little prior to entering the filter housing. It may not make any real difference because there is a gap of CO2 in the filter housing but I like to pretend. Also keeping the release valve may prove to be a benefit. It may will be easier to purge the system of air. With my filter I'm able to turn the top and i can bypass the filter housing (I don't know if this is standard) and that makes it easy to purge the system of air. I do have to stop the flow of my filter and let the air fill the tubing then turn the bypass on then turn the flow on then off and repeat until all of the air is out of the filter housing. It sounds like a PITA but it's really not that big of a deal and you only need to do it when you service the reactor. I also added a course sponge filter pad to the bottom of the outlet tube inside the filter housing because I was getting too many “micro” bubbles in my tank and I’m not a fan of the 7up look. The sponge works great and doesn’t restrict the flow as much as I was expecting. I don’t really notice any difference in flow. If you chose to do this I recommend putting the sponge as far down as you can. If you have it too high you’ll still get “micro” bubbles.

This is my take on the reactor prior to putting the sponge pad in.


----------



## xxxSHyXAxxx

also as you can see from my picture, you don't have to have the outlet tube inside the filter housing the same length as a spun filter cartridge and properly seated on both ends the drill holes in the tube. you can just cut the tube about an inch or 2 shorter and it works just fine. it's less work that way and works the same if not better because flow isn't further restricted. I also decided to go with a bigger tube to help decrease the restriction of flow


----------



## Dave-H

What was that part about the Cerges being easier than the rg reactor?


----------



## audioaficionado

No gluing so it can easily be disassembled and more compact size is a win for Cerges' Reactor YMMV.

I believe the Rex Grigg reactor was invented by someone else.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1219452-post44.html


----------



## Dave-H

I guess, but I sort of like how the rg reactor is permanently sealed and really doesn't require maintenance.

My dad is an retired physicist and I showed him the rg reactor design. He said that there was lots of different types of 'bubble column reactors' used in labs for many years, so I bet it goes back a long, long, way. I will hand it to Rex Griggs for popularizing it and making it easy to do - he's the Steve Jobs of the aquarium world. Didn't invent anything, but brought a good design to market!


----------



## PRSRocker3390

My elbows are like this but made of that black plastic in the irrigation section of home depot. I use them on my Rex grigg.









Like I said, mine is the black plastic ones you use with Rex grigg reactors or such. Is that all I need cause I have those. Just screw one in on each side of the house filter, drill in my co2 line, then the internal pipe pieces? Correct me if I'm wrong. Please help. Will that pretty much work. I know I'm using less pieces than the initial DIY post so I don't know if that matters. I'm using a magnum 350 canister for my extra canister used for my xo2 reactor.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

If all I need is the CPVC pipe down the center of the housing and those two plastic elbows I already have, I'll bite the bullet and purchase the whole house filter from culligan


----------



## Gatekeeper

Yes, the only real add on part that you need is the center PVC pipe. Just drill the holes around the base of it. I actually also use an O-ring at the top to seal it off when you close it. This removes and flaw if you don't cut it to fit exactly and doesn't allow any flow to sneak out.


----------



## audioaficionado

OK so that's how you got the slightly smaller diameter PVC pipe to seal against the inside top?


----------



## Gatekeeper

Well, actually the diameter is a bit larger, but yes. The o-ring just gives it something to compress it into position as well as seal it. Next time you service yours, take a look at the inside. I just simply rolled it on to the base.

When I first installed mine, I didn't use this O-ring and not going to lie, the gurgling was absolutely frustrating and annoying and all these bubbles kept coming out of my spray bar. I finally figured out what it was, the water short-circuiting and not dissolving all the gas and it was all sneaking out the riser. Now, I would almost say its 100% dissolved inside the reactor.


----------



## audioaficionado

Thanx it's working great. 100% efficiency for my present modest 1bps DIY CO2. None of that 'white fuzz' or 'chirping' nonsense of the typical in tank diffuser. Beats the heck out of my chopstick diffuser.

BTW those thread leaks stopped after a few days as the high TDS of my aquarium water have temporarily sealed them LOL. Once I get my Magnum quick disconnect in the mail and splice it in the canister to reactor loop, I'll redo the fittings.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Hmm, what kind of O ring? Like where to a get it and can you show a pic of how it goes on? I'm still a little lost on that part.


----------



## audioaficionado

I believe it's on the outside of the top of the pipe and that slides inside the socket at the top inside of the housing.


----------



## PlasticPlants

I think this works too good. My drop checker is yellow, with my needle valve set at 1bps. How do I set my regulator/needle valve correctly? If I lessen the bps, water creeps up my co2 tubing. My regulator was set at 15psi and I bumped it up to 25psi, hoping to decrease my needle valve, but I don't know if that is suppose to be the correct move to make. Im new to pressurized co2.

I also don't know how to make the bubble sounds inside the reactor stop. I shut off my co2 so I dont know how an O-ring would help in my case since there aren't any gas bubbles entering the system. I also turned the reactor upside down, and I still get bubbles exiting the reactor. I have no leaks and the reactor has been running for 2 hours.

I love the simple design...I just think it works too well for my 20 gallon


----------



## PRSRocker3390

What's the benefit of the drilled holes on the bottom? Do you mean don't leave the little clearance space at the bottom but drill holes instead? Or do both?


----------



## Gatekeeper

PRSRocker3390 said:


> What's the benefit of the drilled holes on the bottom? Do you mean don't leave the little clearance space at the bottom but drill holes instead? Or do both?


Wait, let me make sure we are talking about the same thing here.

If you install the PVC riser inside the chamber, you can actually glue it to the top piece. If you do this, you don't need the O-ring and you can certainly cut the piece shorter so it doesn't go all the way to the bottom. By doing this, you don't need the holes.

The one I typically make extends all the way from the top to the bottom (sitting in the grooved recesses) and I leave it loose (no glue). I use the O-ring at the top to make up for any gaps left after the cut and to press the riser into place. The diameter of the PVC is not an exact match to the recesses nipple for it to stay in place, so this is my fix for that. I am sure there are many other ways to do it, this was just the cheapest for me (O-ring is pennies).

I drill the holes in the riser tube at the bottom to act as the intakes. You could easily cut notches as well. Its all the same at the end.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Do you have any pics of your reactor that I can see? Cause I didn't know the was a way that glued in anyhow. I thought I would just buy the straight cpvc pipe, a coupler, then just shove the coupler on as far as possible, than insert the correct length of the straight PVC pipe to get it just a bit off from the bottom of the house filter housing. Is that what you mean by using a riser? I'm not familiar with that term, I'm still a novice with my DIY projects. And then an o ring at the top where the coupler meets the house filter top?


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Nevermind the riser is the main PVC pipe.... Sorry it just clicked. :icon_redf 

So if I find pipe that fits it snug at the top of the housing, still use an o ring? Or what kind of glue can we use for connecting it? Like what would be aquarium safe and easy to find.


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi PRSRocker3390,

Super Glue Gel is aquarium safe


----------



## Gatekeeper

PRSRocker3390 said:


> Nevermind the riser is the main PVC pipe.... Sorry it just clicked. :icon_redf
> 
> So if I find pipe that fits it snug at the top of the housing, still use an o ring? Or what kind of glue can we use for connecting it? Like what would be aquarium safe and easy to find.


You can try cutting is snug. Good luck. Tough to measure it exact.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Any brands of glue you recommend?


----------



## Gatekeeper

SA had a good recomendation above.


----------



## audioaficionado

You could also use a bead of silicon aquarium adhesive. That way you could still yank it out later if necessary.

Now I'm not at an evil post count anymore LOL.

BTW Gatekeeper put mine together. Works great.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Sorry I didn't realize the name was just super glue gel. Sometimes I forget about super glue being a brand name and not just a nickname for those types of products, my fault.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

I'll post a pic as soon as I finish mine. I have the culligan house filter and my 3/4" npt to 5/8" barb elbows screwed in already. Priming button removed for co2 line done. I just need PVC for inside but can't seen to get something to fit snug. 3/4" PVC coupling is too big and a 3/4" CPVC coupling is too small! Argh, what to do?


----------



## adin




----------



## MoeBetta

Very nice!


----------



## MoeBetta

PRSRocker3390 said:


> I'll post a pic as soon as I finish mine. I have the culligan house filter and my 3/4" npt to 5/8" barb elbows screwed in already. Priming button removed for co2 line done. I just need PVC for inside but can't seen to get something to fit snug. 3/4" PVC coupling is too big and a 3/4" CPVC coupling is too small! Argh, what to do?


I have a culligan as well. I used clear flexible clear hose that fit inside normally, then heated it up in boiling water and pushed it over the outside.


----------



## 150EH

This Reactor is very close in style to the CarbonDoser, if it had a coarse dishwashing srubby half way up the internal pick up tube to keep any bubbles out of the pick up and a Rio pump attached to the bottom of the same pick up, you got it. I guess a clear housing would be nice and maybe a 1/4 brass nipple for the gas inlet and it would be the same.


----------



## 150EH




----------



## plantbrain

I think the general idea and design is easier for DIY vs RG reactor and the finish product has nice clear housing. It's not Rex's idea.......he just posted it, did a write up etc and promote it vs an AM1000 or a Dupla........
I suggested a few mod's to reduce the mist and also to burp the gas build up that occurs later in the light cycle.
That can easily be done here as well.

If you mist and it makes noise, you are doing something incorrect, poor/bad impeller job I'd say, a good needle wheel will not make any notable noise.
Also, few folks can see the mist except in the rear of my tanks, and only if they actively look for it.


----------



## plantbrain

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi PRSRocker3390,
> 
> Super Glue Gel is aquarium safe


Great from keeping kids from running off from the parents too.


----------



## jmullenix

*control of h2o flow*

Hello, I am building one of these reactors and was thinking that if I cap the bottom of the tube inside I may be able to control my flow into the tank by the number and size of the holes I drill. Does anyone have an opinion as to the soundness of this thought......mainly wondering if it could damage my filter pump or create more bubbles in the tank, but any other thoughts are welcome as well. Thanks

-Jason


----------



## PamAndJim

Out of curiousity, other than the "bling" factor is there any benefit to the clear housing? Obviously there is no difference in terms of performance. But, is there any benefit to being able to see what is happening inside the reactor? I am about to buy a white one from HD. But, if someone can tell me it's worth the additional $15-$18 for a clear one I will go that route.


----------



## farrenator

No need for bubble counter.



PamAndJim said:


> Out of curiousity, other than the "bling" factor is there any benefit to the clear housing? Obviously there is no difference in terms of performance. But, is there any benefit to being able to see what is happening inside the reactor? I am about to buy a white one from HD. But, if someone can tell me it's worth the additional $15-$18 for a clear one I will go that route.


----------



## PamAndJim

Oh, I didn't know that. But, I already have a BC, so I think I'll just stick with the white one.


----------



## Gatekeeper

PamAndJim said:


> Oh, I didn't know that. But, I already have a BC, so I think I'll just stick with the white one.


Yes, seeing the direct bubble rate in the reactor does help. I also can monitor the build up of "yuck" inside as well.


----------



## PamAndJim

Never mind, I saw that someone already posted what I asked. My bad


----------



## sewingalot

Just set mine up. Even I could do it following this great instructions. Will let you know how it goes. This will be running 24/7 due to the lack of a solenoid, so I turned the bubble count down to 1 bps. Thanks for this thread!


----------



## 150EH

*Cerge's powered up*

These modifications will make your Cerge's reactor more effecient and should save you some CO2 gas with a very quick response when you open up your needle valve.

This is how it works, the water and gas enter the upper chamber and start to mix in the churning water and the whole time the mixture is leaving the reactor via the large center tube in the bottom chamber, so it is constantly pulling the mixture downwards through the sponge/scrubby in the center which will not allow any gas bubbles to enter the lower chamber. The pump is *not* conected to the center/exit tube, the pump sucks in the gas/water mixture pushes it through the smaller tube and back into the top chamber, this extra churning/aggitation is what makes the unit so efficient.

The center tube should be cut on an angle that is great enough to allow about one half inch of space between the pump and center tube, this allows you to put the pump againt the center tube without any risk of the gap closing, the pump outlet tube should be somewhat ridged so you can use atleast 3 wire ties to hold the pump tube, center tube, & pump power cord (not shown) together neatly, you will also need to get the power cord through the lid of the reactor and make a water tight seal.

I have not figured out the power cord and how to make the seal in the lid, but the parts are out there somewhere and it may mean you have to cut the plug off of the pump and re-attach it properly with solder, shrink tube, etc., I urge you not to try any eletrical modification unless you have the needed skills, this is going into and around water and has the potential to hurt or even kill you if it's not done properly.

Good luck and please post any modifications or part suppliers you find, thank you.


----------



## Gatekeeper

So you are trying to draw the water down then recycle it back up? Its a valid idea and can only provide more efficiency.

However, my reactor has been very very efficient already. Not sure if this is something that is really needed, but perhaps with higher bbs flow rates and high turnover pumps/filters, this may be a modification that will provide great efficiency without having to upsize the filter housing size to the next large 20" version.

Power cord would just need to be glued in place with silicone (obviously the cord needs to be cut in order to pass it through the housing).


----------



## Craigthor

Gatekeeper said:


> So you are trying to draw the water down then recycle it back up? Its a valid idea and can only provide more efficiency.
> 
> However, my reactor has been very very efficient already. Not sure if this is something that is really needed, but perhaps with higher bbs flow rates and high turnover pumps/filters, this may be a modification that will provide great efficiency without having to upsize the filter housing size to the next large 20" version.
> 
> Power cord would just need to be glued in place with silicone (obviously the cord needs to be cut in order to pass it through the housing).


That design is what the Aquariumplants.net CarbonDoser EXT5000 uses.

Craig


----------



## Gatekeeper

Craigthor said:


> That design is what the Aquariumplants.net CarbonDoser EXT5000 uses.
> 
> Craig


Holy $110 batman!!!


----------



## TheWoo

Will there be enough pressure created in a DIY system for the reactor to work efficiently?


----------



## freph

Holy efficiency. I made one of these today for $23 and I'm seeing my HC pearl for the first time in a long time after just 2 hours of being installed. Even my fissidens is pearling a bit!  I highly suggest everyone have a little bit of fun and make one of these!


----------



## Lugnut

Where can I find a clear filter housing like that, and how much did anyone of you pay for it?


----------



## Gatekeeper

Lugnut said:


> Where can I find a clear filter housing like that, and how much did anyone of you pay for it?


I got mine on [Ebay Link Removed]


----------



## Rich Conley

fresh.salty said:


> Why would this have less of an impact on flow vs a DIY reactor?
> 
> From what I can tell the water enters at the top, slams into an internal elbow and down the added PVC extension. Water comes out of the PVC and slams into the bottom of the canister and then exits out the top going through a second internal 90°.


 In the flow rates we're talking about, elbows really aren't that much of a restriction. Its narrowing of pipes thats a problem.


These canisters are meant to filter your whole house's water supply. They're meant to work at significantly higher flow rates than your cannister filter.


----------



## john.shephard25

Hi I wanna try this thing but I have 23galons tank and Fluval 204 which is not the strongest in flow so how can I increase the flow in the reactor?


----------



## john.shephard25

So, today I found two kinds of water filters: one is half of the size (and price) and the other is bigger.I wonder which one is better option, more effective .For now only the price is more appealing so I'm leaning towards smaller.Will it be less effective?


----------



## Gatekeeper

By small, I assume you mean the 10"? That one is fine.


----------



## john.shephard25

Actually I don't know.There are only two sizes right?


----------



## wGEric

This is very similar to the Rexx Griggs reactor; air bubbles trying to float up while water pushes them down.

As to why Cerges' Reactor appears to have higher flow, I'm guessing canister must build up some pressure so that the water flowing out is at the same speed as the water flowing in. For the Rexx Griggs reactor think of a river. The river is narrow and then hits a wide spot where the flow slows down. Then it hits a narrow spot again speeding up the flow. The wider pipe, that Rexx Griggs reactors use, slows down the flow and must have an impact on the flow of water once it goes back to the narrower pipe. Probably less pressure pushing the water even though it is the same amount of water.

Because the Cerge's Reactor has a higher rate of flow it becomes more important to have some foam or something to block the bubbles so they can't get out until they are diffused. Or have a longer canister to allow more time to diffuse. It is also important to make sure the inner pipe that extends the input down to the bottom is sealed so that bubbles can't escape.


----------



## iSAWaSeaSAW

i was looking to build something similar to this for the past couple days then i found this today. needless to say i went out immediately to buy goodies! my plan is to use an aquaclear 70 powerhead with sponge filter to push water in. i will have biomedia in the bottom of the sediment filter and am thinking right now i may be able to hook up my co2 to where the pressure relief valve on the filter is. from there it will go back in the tank to a spraybar. the whole thing will be hung on the back of the tank to minimize further flow loss from having to push veritcally. i will update how it effects my flow and generally how happy i am with the system after i complete it.
cheers!


----------



## iSAWaSeaSAW

i have completed the build and it is functioning quite well. the flow was only very slightly affected. i cant be sure of how much better it diffuses co2 yet but i am quite sure it will be more effective than routing it into the impeller of the powerhead to a spraybar like i had before. thanks for the great idea!


----------



## Gatekeeper

wGEric said:


> This is very similar to the Rexx Griggs reactor; air bubbles trying to float up while water pushes them down.
> 
> As to why Cerges' Reactor appears to have higher flow, I'm guessing canister must build up some pressure so that the water flowing out is at the same speed as the water flowing in. For the Rexx Griggs reactor think of a river. The river is narrow and then hits a wide spot where the flow slows down. Then it hits a narrow spot again speeding up the flow. The wider pipe, that Rexx Griggs reactors use, slows down the flow and must have an impact on the flow of water once it goes back to the narrower pipe. Probably less pressure pushing the water even though it is the same amount of water.
> 
> Because the Cerge's Reactor has a higher rate of flow it becomes more important to have some foam or something to block the bubbles so they can't get out until they are diffused. Or have a longer canister to allow more time to diffuse. It is also important to make sure the inner pipe that extends the input down to the bottom is sealed so that bubbles can't escape.


I don't know how you developed the notion that there is a higher flow rate in the filter reactor. The principle is in essence the same between the pvc and the filter reactor. Force flow down into a slow moving reservoir (flow is the same, velocity decreases based on flow area), the slow movement increases contact time and is further assisted by forcing it against gravity by placing outlet at the bottom. Putting math to this, yes maybe there is some differential loses that will be different from one to the other, but there is no "standard" on the pvc reactors, and I would certainly say that the water filter would have more loses, based on the aggressive turns the water is forced to make within the chamber from inlet to outlet.

As far as "requiring media" or something to break up the bubbles, I have never seen any bubbles really even getting close to the bottom of the riser in the filter reactor. You can certainly add media as a secondary filter, but again, its not really needed from my experience so far.


----------



## Guest

I've been testing this reactor for three days now(my DIY version not the original) and I must say I'm uterly dissapointed, since I have the same result I used to have with old version of CO2 mixer, which BTW costed me a fraction of what this reactor costed me.As I see it this reactor needs a propeler inside that will break CO2 which is a gas that doesn't dissolve that easy really.I'm not convinced that it is dissolved as good in this way and thing is that I have installed a small pump on the IN hose and that pump has under its propeler a CO2 source and it is been all ready dissolved a bit but when that water reaches my reactor it creates another "bubble" that keeps floating on the upper part of a reactor and I wander how much of it is being dissolved.On the other hand my CO2 is shot down at night but my reactor keeps working so by morning half of CO2 in the reactor is gone, I guess its disolved but why do I need CO2 at night?


----------



## Falcon64

Found this thread just in time, as I'm adding CO2 to a 29 gal planted tank as soon as my CO2 bottle gets here. Ran out to Home Depot today and got all the parts, but am thinking about how I am going to move the water through it.

I've got an Eheim 2215 and I had initially planned on simply adding this reactor to the return line, but the flow on this is perfect right now and I'm hesitant to mess with that so I got to thinking about running this separately from the filter. 

I have an AquaClear 30 powerhead that I use for quick filtering sometimes, and the manual says it can handle the head pressure. I could get an Eheim Compact 600 pump which can handle the 42" head pressure as well. Both of these have the same problem in that they take up space in the tank that I'm loathe to part with. The last option would be something like the Eheim Universal Pump that can be run from outside the tank. (Not stuck on Eheim, will use any brand that is highly recommended. I'm just using them as an example as I have their website up).

If you run your reactor separately from your filter, how have you got it set up? What are you using to move the water through the reactor? Any other thoughts that I may be missing, please feel free to chime in!

Thanks!,

Henry


----------



## Falcon64

No feedback?


----------



## kevmo911

A powerhead in a closed loop will work fine. Just get one designed to work outside the tank (with two nozzles). I would imagine that anything rated for 175 gph or better would work with a reactor. I have a SunSun 264 gph canister running with a Grigg reactor and inline heater, and I get 100% diffusion at 3-4bps.


----------



## Falcon64

Thanks for the input, I'll try an extra Mag 3 external pump that I bought for a pond a few years ago. If the flow is too much, I'll add a ball valve on the output and slow it down.

Henry


----------



## mscichlid

Will this one work?

http://www.filtersfast.com/Pentek-158008-Filter-Housing.asp


----------



## Gatekeeper

mscichlid said:


> Will this one work?
> 
> http://www.filtersfast.com/Pentek-158008-Filter-Housing.asp


The pipe connection is a bit small.


----------



## mscichlid

Thanks! I found the proper one on that site.


----------



## gus6464

Just put together one today but my canister filter won't be in until next week. I ordered an Aquatop CF300 canister which actually uses 5/8in hoses so I lucked out and all I had to buy was a 3/4" threaded to 5/8" barbed adapter. Also if you use the same GE filter that HD carries for the inside you just need a regular 3/4" PVC coupler and 3/4" piece of PVC which is 98 cents for an 18" piece.

In total I spent $20 for everything.


----------



## inkslinger

Any one fig out what is been use for the power cord ? 
It's not made of plastic it's and it goes threw the cover and has a 
hex nut on the other end .


I have this already but not installed yet for my Eheim 2262, But would like to build another using a bigger canister with 1 inch intake an output , If only I could fine the compress nut use for the power cord?


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi inkslinger,

The small Rio-type recirculation pump (black square) in the bottom of the canister.


----------



## inkslinger

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi inkslinger,
> 
> The small Rio-type recirculation pump (black square) in the bottom of the canister.


No that's not what I'm taking about .
I'm asking about what is being use for the power cord {the silver nut on the cover , where could one fine those?}


----------



## CrazyMidwesterner

I built two of these bad boys about a month ago. I bought the clear housings. Just curious but what's the purpose of all the additional stuff (pump and pad/sponge), just looks like more items to clean and or leak break. It makes sense if the idea is to eliminate the canister all together I suppose. The water pounding the CO2 at the top is pretty darn efficient without that stuff and I had almost zero flow loss. Much better than my old PVC inline reactor I used years ago and easier to put together as well.


----------



## fresh.salty

Why would this work better than the DIY PVC version.


----------



## CrazyMidwesterner

I don't know if it better from an efficiency stand point but the flow is better for sure. I can't explain why but I can see the difference. 

My guess is the old PVC reactor actually increases the run the water has to make for a canister filter sitting on the ground. The flow goes up to the top of the reactor, flow back down to the floor, and then back up to the tank. 

This reactor actually shortened my run because I never cut the hoses originally. Water runs into the cerges reactor which is slightly higher than my canister and then up the PVC pipe in the reactor to my tank. Could have been due to the length of my original PVC reactor as well. It was about 26" whereas this thing is about 10". It could be simply because this thing is designed to move water. I'd be lying if I said I knew for sure


----------



## Lichard

This reactor is brilliant in it's simplicity. The button in mine left a hole the perfect size for the tubing to fit through, no drilling required. I had mine up in running within minutes!


----------



## inkslinger

inkslinger said:


> Any one fig out what is been use for the power cord ?
> It's not made of plastic it's and it goes threw the cover and has a
> hex nut on the other end .
> 
> 
> I have this already but not installed yet for my Eheim 2262, But would like to build another using a bigger canister with 1 inch intake an output , If only I could fine the compress nut use for the power cord?


Any guess to what type of compress fitting is being use for the cord?


----------



## OverStocked

Heyco cord grip.


----------



## inkslinger

OverStocked said:


> Heyco cord grip.


Thanks! I wounder if this is the one they use on the ext5000 ?

http://www.heyco.com/Liquid_Tight_C...rass-Cordgrips&section=Liquid_Tight_Cordgrips


----------



## Aquaticfan

Actually I think people are confusing flow and pressure. While im sure some amount of flow is reduced by both as the volume of water per a gallon being circulated is less, The pressure is reduced in the PVC reactor due to it basically adding more head to the overall output of the system. The PVC reactor aka Rex Griggs reactor is a long (most are using 18 to 30" long) of 2" roughly internal diameter tube. The flow is directed at the top of the reactor and it must work against the rising Co2 as well as having to pressurize and flow downward to the outlet then finally out the outlet and to the tank. With the Cerges reactor the inside of the filter is a pretty strait shot in. It just fills the chamber. The Co2 is kept in this chamber to be ran against the water current that dissolves it. Then its pushed strait up (so more of a natural direction of flow vs the PVC reactor) the tube inside the reactor (also this tube is smaller diameter for a longer period thus it should increase pressure) and then directly out to the tank. There is less resistance in the Cerges reactor. It keeps the pressure higher. This would be at least my opinion and observation. I dont know that the Cerges has better flow. But I think it has better pressure. 





CrazyMidwesterner said:


> I don't know if it better from an efficiency stand point but the flow is better for sure. I can't explain why but I can see the difference.
> 
> My guess is the old PVC reactor actually increases the run the water has to make for a canister filter sitting on the ground. The flow goes up to the top of the reactor, flow back down to the floor, and then back up to the tank.
> 
> This reactor actually shortened my run because I never cut the hoses originally. Water runs into the cerges reactor which is slightly higher than my canister and then up the PVC pipe in the reactor to my tank. Could have been due to the length of my original PVC reactor as well. It was about 26" whereas this thing is about 10". It could be simply because this thing is designed to move water. I'd be lying if I said I knew for sure


----------



## fresh.salty

But pressure will work against you as far as head loss, at least that's how I see it.


----------



## milesm

fresh.salty said:


> But pressure will work against you as far as head loss, at least that's how I see it.


most canister filters run in a closed loop; head loss is essentially a non factor in such a closed loop. 90 degree bends slow flow more than head. the cerges has at least 4.


----------



## fresh.salty

I consider anything that restricts flow to be head pressure. I straight through run would be the most efficient. Fittings such as barbed 90's are very restrictive since the ID is much smaller than a normal slip PVC 90.


----------



## HD Blazingwolf

when pumps are concered. a 90 bend or a slight bend, or a ripple in the tube, or buildup of debris, distance.. etc etc.. all relate to head pressure.. period.. no way around it


----------



## Aquaticfan

fresh.salty said:


> But pressure will work against you as far as head loss, at least that's how I see it.


Actually higher pressure can work to a higher head. So higher pressure will of course go higher. 

Im really curious if this reactor actually flows more (GPH) at the same head and pressure as the Rex reactor. OR is it all something that has to do with less GPH coming out of one vs the other but one uses a change in restriction and one has greater head loss. If you take the same volume of water and push it through a smaller space you should reduce flow in GPH but could easily gain Pressure. Alot of the times as we arent using a meter to measure flow we see flow as movement in the tank. What we actually see there is more pressure effects then volume as we see the plants move more when there is more pressure. Just my thoughts on it anyhow. Im actually going to look into a experiment to see if it does indeed flow more GPH or Pressure or what happens between the 2 reactors.


----------



## fresh.salty

With a pump that's not pressure rated (canister) any restriction to create pressure will reduce the volume.


----------



## Aquaticfan

fresh.salty said:


> With a pump that's not pressure rated (canister) any restriction to create pressure will reduce the volume.


Correct.. I guess what I was stating earlier is alot of people confuse flow gph and what they see physically moving plants around (pressure) 

If you take a canister filter, and they do have a pressure rating as well as flow but most advertise GPH flow and not pressure.... But if you take this canister filter with 5/8 hose and put 1/2 inch hose it should reach to a higher head level and you would get the opposite if you put 3/4 hose on it. The Volume would change of course as well as pressure. But by just looking at it with the human eye we cant tell what the reduction of volume is. Would have to actually measure it to see for sure. BUT Pressure is something we can see more easily. If you watch your plants sway in the output more pressure will make them move more and less will move less. Even at lower volume. I guess what im saying is. Does the Cerges reactor flow the same or less then the Rex reactor but it creates more pressure thus looking like it flows more to the eye? Like I said I really want to do an experiment and see what happens with both reactors. By using a 1 gallon container I should be able to time how much it takes to fill up each one with the same head pressure. I would like to know if the cerges really does flow more. Just curious I guess.


----------



## jeremyblevins

Accidental post


----------



## GaryC

Well I finished building mine thanks to this post. It's working pretty awesome and now my drop checkers are finally a nice green color.


----------



## jstehman

Would there be a downside to mounting this reactor upside down?


----------



## sketch804

now I don't have one of these yet, I am planning on making one this week or in the VERY near future, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose? you want the bubbles to diffuse before they exit the reactor and if you turn it upside down the bubbles will rise and get sucked out the tube before they can diffuse and you will get them coming out the exiting output...or at least that's what I see from all my reading I have been doing on this..You need the exiting water to get sucked from the bottom because the bubbles should be dissolved by then..but that's just IMO, I might be wrong for all I know Ha!

BTW GREAT thread here, I am subscribed and ready to build mine here soon, just gota go get the parts! yeah!


----------



## jstehman

I'm wondering if you were to omit the PVC tube for the exit, turn the reactor upside down, you would not get the gurgling noise when you start to use a higher bubble count. The CO2 would rise to the top and still get hit with the intake flow.

Or leave the PVC in and hook it up backwards so your intake flow blasts up into the CO2 ..I wish I had the clear housing so I could try all this.

Its pretty effective as is ; my PH dropped another. 2 after I installed using the samebubble count as my internal reactor.


----------



## NWA-Planted

jstehman said:


> I'm wondering if you were to omit the PVC tube for the exit, turn the reactor upside down, you would not get the gurgling noise when you start to use a higher bubble count. The CO2 would rise to the top and still get hit with the intake flow.
> 
> Its pretty effective as is ; my PH dropped another. 2 after I installed using the samebubble count as my internal reactor.


I see what your saying, honestly, probably wouldn't hurt a thing, be curious to see, give it a try and let us know 

Going to build one next paycheck myself I think

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## dougfresh

Hey guys I was wondering if you could help me out with a problem I seem to be having with this setup. 

After I hook everything up according to the plans, when I pressurize the CO2 it seems to push the water back out of the reactor. Any ideas on how to fix it? Also, when I turn off the CO2 to address the problem, it pushes the water up through my CO2 hose, which I should put a check valve on. Any help would be great!


----------



## NWA-Planted

dougfresh said:


> Hey guys I was wondering if you could help me out with a problem I seem to be having with this setup.
> 
> After I hook everything up according to the plans, when I pressurize the CO2 it seems to push the water back out of the reactor. Any ideas on how to fix it? Also, when I turn off the CO2 to address the problem, it pushes the water up through my CO2 hose, which I should put a check valve on. Any help would be great!


if the set up is running there should not be enough pressure from the co2 to force water out of the reactor..

And yes get a check valve on that pronto

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## sketch804

Alright well due to all the great feedback and everything good said about this reactor I decided to make one myself..Ha I dunno where you say 23 dollars but oh well here we go..









All my parts before assembly









I liked the not drilling into the reactor plus I can use the button to purge the system of air every once in a while.

















All done, now time to assemble it in my system.









All done, hooked up to my outflow of my Fluval 305. It makes lots of bubbles right now but I will give it a bit to see how it works. plz ignore the dolla dolla bills in the pic ha..And plz don't worry or give me crap about my ugly looking underneath of my set up, I have everything on GFCI so if any water does leak I am good and no shorts...

Also for those people I see wondering about the barbs that connect to your hoses that are 5/8" internal dia., I used 1/2" threaded to 1/2" barb conections to fit up with my 5/8" hose..fits nice and snug and no leaks at all just use a screw clamp on the end as you always should..just lil fyi I had to figure out at the store..

Thanks everyone for all the great info and reviews!!


----------



## inkslinger

Does any one run a 20 inch house filter yet?


----------



## propsi

For those interested in discussing plumbing & head loss, the following might be helpful. [http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature2


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## propsi

duplicate post


----------



## jart

GaryC said:


> Well I finished building mine thanks to this post. It's working pretty awesome and now my drop checkers are finally a nice green color.


Nice build. Good job.
Instead of using the ball valves that you used, does anyone have an opinion on these inline valves:









Ball valves of course would work but I'm wondering if I could make things less cumbersome by using the smaller valves.

Good post, sketch804.


----------



## happi

i just buily one yesterday and its running today. am not sure how many bps it can handle, but am running mine around 4-5 bps. i still see mist type bubbles enters the tank, even though am using sponge inside the co2 reactor to stop the bubbles from escaping. 

does anybody know, how long it takes for this reactor to completly dissolve the co2, i dont want to build up too much co2 in the reactor which will be still there even after the lights go off, did anybody test the reactor to see how much time it takes for the reactor to completly dissolve the co2. i hope it doesnt take hours to do that.

wouldnt it be better to run the reactor 2 hours before lights and increase the bps to 5-8bps and let the co2 build up and turn it off 3-4 hours before the lights goes off?


----------



## sketch804

good question I am interested in knowing the answer to that one as well! Mine seems to be working pretty good! Running it at the same bps and my drop checker seems to be staying one color, light green, and gives me a drop in PH by .4 in just about a couple hrs..but then again yesterday was the first day i used it and did a WC...so today will be the real test..mine fully purged all the air out in one day, but still shoves a few micro bubbles out but nothing that I don't mind. It is still a lot better than my old ceramic disc diffuser! So i will give more info once i see this thing in action..but I have to say I am impressed so far..and the noise is pretty minimal..good luck all! 

And thnx jart!

_*Okay update:*_
Wow how I love this reactor! I wont go back to any other way of diffusion ever again! I get a few bubbles but hell who cares, it doesn't look like a 7up tank so I am happy. Everything is doing great now, my drop checker is green after 2-2 1/2 hrs of being on, ALL my plants are pearling like mad, and no stress on my fish from what I see! So everything works as it should! just need to fix a really slow drip and all is good!









Nice and green color, running over 3 1/2 -4+ bps (in mineral oil) in a 40gal breeder.









All my stems are pearling great and COVERED in bubbles!









Even these hydrocoile (or whatever) sp. are pearling like mad and NEVER have before! my C. spirals is pearling and never has before also..


----------



## happi

nicely done, i hope i can make my plant pearl tommarow. anyway i just tested to see how much time it takes for the reactor to diffuse all the buubles, if you are running about 5-8bps and let it build up for couple of hours and then turn off the co2, it takes less than 2 hours for the reactor to dissolve all the co2 completly. 

lets see what other have to say


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## jstehman

Less than 2 hours for mine as well. Running 5 BPS and Eheim 2217.


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## Franklin

So, is the consensus that a recirculation pump (aka Rio) is not really needed?


----------



## kassysimon

Sorry to revive such an old thread but this is a great looking reactor.
Im also going to make one but not using the filter housing, im going to use left over plumbing fittings.
One question i have though. 

Is the PVC pipe that runs down the inside of the middle of the housing connected to the outlet side or the inlet side of the flow?

Thanks


----------



## Franklin

The water and CO2 are introduced on the outside, diffused, and bubbles filtered through foam/scrubbie pad and then exits through the middle tube. In the design with the pump the water is pumped up again and through the pad again and exits through the middle tube.


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## aquadoc

*will this canister filter work?*

I have a eheim ecco 2236 that produces only 159gph. Has anyone used this filter or something similar with successful results? I am currently using the Hydor Turbo co2 diffuser and i'm burning through co2 tanks pretty quickly.


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## sketch804

I use the Fluval 305 on my Cerges' Reactor which is somewhere around that GPH you have, and I do still get some bubbles exiting my outflow but it is nothing compared to an atomizer or diffuser I will tell you that! Not enough to really care about..before I made this one I was sort of concerned about if I have too much flow the bubbles will build up a bunch or look bad, but it sounds worse than it really is. My tank is still pretty clear with the CO2 running. This is by far A LOT better than any other way of diffusion..that is a reactor in general..I will never go back to anything other than a reactor! I really use the same amount of CO2, maybe a little bit less but it seems that the CO2 is a lot more efficient than the old atomizer or glass diffuser. My Co2 level is good and stays at light green or green with a hint of yellow all day, unlike other diffusers that slowly raise the CO2 level throughout the day. If I were to build this one again I would maybe put an airstone at the end of the tube in the reactor to get the bubbles smaller, but I enjoy not drilling in the reactor and using a T pipe so I can purge the system every couple days due to other gasses besides CO2 building up in the reactor. sry for the long rant..


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## aquadoc

thank you for the reply. The fluval 305 has 260gph right? Thats about 100gph more...I think i might wait till i upgrade my canister filter. I don't think it has enough flow to work that great.


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## sketch804

aquadoc said:


> thank you for the reply. The fluval 305 has 260gph right? Thats about 100gph more...I think i might wait till i upgrade my canister filter. I don't think it has enough flow to work that great.


Oh ya any time! Hmm, I am not really sure, but that sounds about right for the GPH, but I have heard that those rates aren't exactly accurate. But if my flow was a little slower like in you canister than I wouldn't get any bubbles coming out of my tank..As far as this reactor is concerned I don't believe low flow matters, it's when the flow is too high then it becomes a problem. When bubbles are expelled through the output then that just means it is wasted CO2..so with lower flow the CO2 is fully diffused/absorbed before it exits and there is no wasted CO2..So truthfully I think you will be alright! I don't think there is any set limit for the low flow on this reactor..just as long as there is some decent flow you are good to go..If I were you I would go for it! BEST thing I ever built for my tank haha!


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## Franklin

While putting together my reactor tonight I was looking around for pipe for the down tube (atually uptube) that I figured I'd have to Rube Goldberg glue it and tried some 1" schedule 80 and it fits pretty tight to the outside flange of my reactor cap. If you want an easy way to do it?

I used a Pentek 158623 1/2" 3G Slim Line housing $16.97 and Charlotte Pipe 1" schedule 80 pvc pipe.


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## sketch804

Looking nice! hope it does great for you but I bet it will!


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## aquadoc

sketch804 said:


> Oh ya any time! Hmm, I am not really sure, but that sounds about right for the GPH, but I have heard that those rates aren't exactly accurate. But if my flow was a little slower like in you canister than I wouldn't get any bubbles coming out of my tank..As far as this reactor is concerned I don't believe low flow matters, it's when the flow is too high then it becomes a problem. When bubbles are expelled through the output then that just means it is wasted CO2..so with lower flow the CO2 is fully diffused/absorbed before it exits and there is no wasted CO2..So truthfully I think you will be alright! I don't think there is any set limit for the low flow on this reactor..just as long as there is some decent flow you are good to go..If I were you I would go for it! BEST thing I ever built for my tank haha!


I love this website, you have people such as you that are so informative and motivating! I'm going to go for it and build it. I'll post my results after i have it connected so people with filters like mine with low flow will have comparison. Thank you once again for your time and information!


----------



## sketch804

aquadoc said:


> I love this website, you have people such as you that are so informative and motivating! I'm going to go for it and build it. I'll post my results after i have it connected so people with filters like mine with low flow will have comparison. Thank you once again for your time and information!


Ha well this is a great site in almost all cases if you ask a question you will get some sort of answer. Any time dude, I am always willing to help, it took me forever and a lot reading info to get mine done. But just remember this is all IMO, where you might have more people with a plethora of experience in this part that might think different but from what I have read and seen, I believe that you will be just fine! with 150+GPH filter I think that you will get 100% diffusion and actually have more diffusion and less bubbles than I do running 230+gph..just a thought but I am sure it will turn out great for you! I will never use another form of diffusion for tanks 20gal or larger! GOOD LUCK to you and I hope all turns out! ya please post your results, that's how I decided to take the plunge into mine is after seeing people with similar things...Ask and you shall receive!


----------



## aquadoc

For those of you building this reactor with this housing from HD:










[if the image doesn't work use this link] http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...yword=house+filter&storeId=10051#BVRRWidgetID

To attach the internal tube to the top i used a 1" pvc pipe and it fits around the connection pretty flush but not tight. 3/4" coupling was too small. If you use the 1" pvc pipe, i used silicon to seal it to the top and bought a rubber gasket that fit around the bottom housing nipple to seal the tube. I then just drilled 5/16" holes in the bottom to allow water flow. The reason i extended the tube to the bottom was because if i didn't the only thing that would have been holding the 1"pvc pipe in place would have been silicon and as you know silicon is very flexable meaning the tube would wobble inside and possible come loose. I am still waiting for the pvc glue and silicon to dry but i will post my results as soon as i have them (48 hours for silicon to be fully cured apparently). 

BTW, i don't know if all the other housings have this but this housing also has a lever that you can use as a bypass or just shut off the canister all together, this makes it easy to close off for cleaning.

I was hesitant on taking the plunge and building this reactor as i could not find a housing that was clear and had a good connection point at the top but this one seems like it should work and so far looks really good. I'll post a picture of it tonight so people can see what it looks like. I hope this helps people that have the same selection of housings as i do.


----------



## aquadoc




----------



## sketch804

j/w whats the advantage in drilling holes in the outlet tube as opposed to just having an open tube the doesnt hit the bottom?? I figured the holes would slow the flow down and what not.. Thnx, nice write up also!


----------



## aquadoc

sketch804 said:


> j/w whats the advantage in drilling holes in the outlet tube as opposed to just having an open tube the doesnt hit the bottom?? I figured the holes would slow the flow down and what not.. Thnx, nice write up also!


I don't think there is an advantage when it comes to flow. I think that the advantage in my case with this housing is that the connection to the top of the housing is held on (and sealed) my silicon rather then a tight connection (see pic). Having the pipe going all the way down helps put pressure on the top connection keeping it from coming loose or free from flow turbulance. I haven't hooked this up yet (i will tomorrow) but i don't think there should be any flow issue/difference then one with an open bottom, as long as there is ample area of the holes (>= ID of outflow hose). This is only my opinion but i could be wrong, when i hook up my reactor i guess that will be the ultimate determination.


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## Franklin

Here is the outflow tube area at 2-3 BPS. Using a Rena 20 PPI foam filter cut and pressure fitted to tube and casing (jamming it on:biggrin. Small bubbles in upper area. Looks to be about 30 small bubbles in the upper filter. Circulated up and down and then the water comes down through the foam with no bubbles at all.

I am pumping with a Eheim 2217 canister which puts out in the mid 300gph. I am pumping an additional 3-4 feet to my tank then if I had a normal setup. I am very happy so far!


----------



## aquadoc

As a follow up to my reactor using an eheim 2236 159gph...

I have no drop in flow. The canister is putting out just as much water as it did before with doing the drilling of holes in the downpipe.

The first day I noticed the outflow was spitting out co2 but i think i was pumping out ~6-8 bps with my hydor co2 diffuser to keep the co2 levels optimal. I now have it set to about 3 bps and my outflow is no longer spitting out co2 (completely dissolving it).

Has anyone plumbed in an airline for o2 for lights out time? I think that this filter could act as a duel reactor and could further be used to take more out of the tank (airstones/airlines). Just curious if anyone has thought about this or see any problems with this.


----------



## sketch804

ha never thought of that one, but it sounds like a great idea! Hmm, might have to try that one down the road...are you still getting good CO2 levels after you lowered your bubble count?? I find I still need a decent bubble count to get good levels of CO2 in my tank but I only get a few bubbles and what not..but still using less CO2 than a ceramic diffuser..


----------



## aquadoc

sketch804 said:


> ha never thought of that one, but it sounds like a great idea! Hmm, might have to try that one down the road...are you still getting good CO2 levels after you lowered your bubble count?? I find I still need a decent bubble count to get good levels of CO2 in my tank but I only get a few bubbles and what not..but still using less CO2 than a ceramic diffuser..



You are right, when i lowered my co2 i didn't get in the green on my co2 level indicator, it was more blue green. I had to raise it back up, but now i'm in the green again at ~6-7bps. I have noticed that im getting bubbles out the tube now. I'm wondering if i placed some foam around the down tube that it might help break up the co2 better. My only worry about this is that if it prevents some of the co2 from escaping wont the co2 just keep building in the reactor until there is a big gas bubble at the top that the water will flow down/through like a waterfall (a loud waterfall)?? I see some people have done this but with much higher flow rate...i think mine might not have the gph to break up the gas through a sponge. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## flight50

Aquadoc how is your reactor holding up. I recently purchased this same filter to make my reactor. I am still gather parts/equipment for my build so mine won't be setup anytime soon to experiment with.


----------



## aquatic serenity

I am building one of these now with a twist...Gonna use a 20" clear sump instead of a 10"
..thinking more contact time will enhance the CO2 saturation....????


----------



## sketch804

aquatic serenity said:


> I am building one of these now with a twist...Gonna use a 20" clear sump instead of a 10"
> ..thinking more contact time will enhance the CO2 saturation....????


Yes more time the CO2 is in contact with the water in the reactor the better..I am actually thinking about doing the same thing down the road for the same reason..but all I have to say is once you do a reactor, you wont go back to anything else unless its for a 10gal or something! Where are you finding the 20" tube at??


----------



## happi

i have tested it in many ways, drilled holes and without hole etc, the best way that worked for me was adding a sponge on the lower end, this prevent small bubbles from escaping, which i notice escaping when not using the sponge. this reactor is able to diffuse much as bps as you wish.

by the way last time i said it takes 2 hours for it to diffuse all the co2 in the reactor, i was wrong. it takes half hour or less to dissolve the left behind co2. if it takes longer than that, then your reactor is getting air trapped from somewhere.


----------



## sketch804

happi said:


> i have tested it in many ways, drilled holes and without hole etc, the best way that worked for me was adding a sponge on the lower end, this prevent small bubbles from escaping, which i notice escaping when not using the sponge. this reactor is able to diffuse much as bps as you wish.
> 
> by the way last time i said it takes 2 hours for it to diffuse all the co2 in the reactor, i was wrong. it takes half hour or less to dissolve the left behind co2. if it takes longer than that, then your reactor is getting air trapped from somewhere.


Ah, okay well I will have to try that one, what's the sponge you are using? like a pot scrubber or something? 30Mins, ha, well I guess it is just time to adjust my CO2 timer.. Do you do 30min before light come on and go off??

Thanks for the extra info!


----------



## aquatic serenity

" Where are you finding the 20" tube at ???"

www.kleenwater.com


----------



## happi

sketch804 said:


> Ah, okay well I will have to try that one, what's the sponge you are using? like a pot scrubber or something? 30Mins, ha, well I guess it is just time to adjust my CO2 timer.. Do you do 30min before light come on and go off??
> 
> Thanks for the extra info!


Andrew, i haven't tried the pot scrubber, but i did cut the sponge which was laying around and just added that on the bottom, make sure you don't fully cover the inlet otherwise you will have reduced flow. my co2 comes in 1-2hr before the lights and go off 2 hours before the lights goes off, i do this so plant use all the left behind co2 in the tank.


----------



## sketch804

ahh good thinking on the co2 2hrs before lights out...ya mine comes on hour and a half before lights and about the same for lights out..what kinda filter are you using with this? Ah okay well hmm, I'll have to find a piece of filter somewhere, or buy something..thnx! But mine doesnt spit out enough bubbles for me to care and I couldnt even tell ya my bbs on it..too fast..but I am loving the reactor so far, my growth rate has doubled if not more after using this..
Now I have heard people using more than one reactor on 100+gal tank if they use 2+filters..would this be recommended for a 75 gal tank or should I be good with just one as long as circulation is decent???


----------



## happi

sketch804 said:


> ahh good thinking on the co2 2hrs before lights out...ya mine comes on hour and a half before lights and about the same for lights out..what kinda filter are you using with this? Ah okay well hmm, I'll have to find a piece of filter somewhere, or buy something..thnx! But mine doesnt spit out enough bubbles for me to care and I couldnt even tell ya my bbs on it..too fast..but I am loving the reactor so far, my growth rate has doubled if not more after using this..
> Now I have heard people using more than one reactor on 100+gal tank if they use 2+filters..would this be recommended for a 75 gal tank or should I be good with just one as long as circulation is decent???


 
andrew you might have low gph filter attach to the reactor, which is why you dont see many bubbles being spit out. i have cf500 which is rated for 525gph and it does create a strong flow in the reactor and that is why i see some bubbles coming out of the outlet. IMO its always better to use less gph filter on the reactor, this works better. you should be fine with just 1 reactor on your 75g, but its always better to add more.


----------



## youknowho

Is this reactor overkill for a 3.5g Mini-S tank? I want to keep as much equipment out of the tank as possible, so I'm considering building one of these instead of using a diffusor.


----------



## happi

youknowho said:


> Is this reactor overkill for a 3.5g Mini-S tank? I want to keep as much equipment out of the tank as possible, so I'm considering building one of these instead of using a diffusor.


am not sure how you could install a such big reactor to a canister filter for your 3.5g. it only work with canister or pump which can deliver good amount of flow into the Cerges reactor.


----------



## cordero01

Really like the desing of the reactor but its affected by the flow have someone used it in 2000+ gph?


----------



## youknowho

happi said:


> am not sure how you could install a such big reactor to a canister filter for your 3.5g. it only work with canister or pump which can deliver good amount of flow into the Cerges reactor.


I'm going to be using a Rena XP1. It's rated 250gph, is that not enough flow for the reactor?


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## m00se

Just a FYI for you guys trying to fit the PVC downtube in these filters. PVC melts at about 212 F. Or I should say gets soft enough to form. I bought the 20" HH clear filter and the ring where the PVC pipe needed to go was slightly larger than 1" PVC. I boiled some water, found that the pestle I use to grind spices with was the perfect diameter to form the end of the pipe, so I plunged the pipe into the boiling water, pressed it onto the pestle end, let it cool and had the perfect diameter for the ring it needed to fit. 

I had to do the same thing with the old 10" unit I had. The opposite though. The pipe was slightly too big for that one, so I boiled water, plunged the pipe into it and then forced it into the ring to make a nice snug fit.

No silicone, glue, teflon tape, or other kludge.

Cheers


----------



## happi

youknowho said:


> I'm going to be using a Rena XP1. It's rated 250gph, is that not enough flow for the reactor?


flow is enough for the reactor but are you planning on bringing in tsunami in your little tank?


----------



## sketch804

ha thats what I was thinking..might be way too much flow for a little 3.5 gal tank..either way, good luck to ya!


----------



## youknowho

happi said:


> flow is enough for the reactor but are you planning on bringing in tsunami in your little tank?


No tsunami plans :biggrin:. I do need a decent amount of flow though since the canister will be below the tank and I'll be using an in-line heater and in-line Cerges reactor. If you think there's a more suitable canister filter feel free to PM me!


----------



## happi

youknowho said:


> No tsunami plans :biggrin:. I do need a decent amount of flow though since the canister will be below the tank and I'll be using an in-line heater and in-line Cerges reactor. If you think there's a more suitable canister filter feel free to PM me!


i wouldnt try using this reactor on the smaller tanks, its a over kill. 

you can use ZooMed Nano filters on nano tanks, but am not sure how this will work with this reactor or might not even work at all.


----------



## m00se

I think it's unanimous that a cerges reactor would be ridiculous on a 4 gallon tank. Hey, knock yourself (and probably everything else in the tank) out :icon_roll


----------



## youknowho

happi said:


> i wouldnt try using this reactor on the smaller tanks, its a over kill.
> 
> you can use ZooMed Nano filters on nano tanks, but am not sure how this will work with this reactor or might not even work at all.


Hmm well I wanted to use the Cerges reactor to avoid putting a diffusor in the tank. I've also read that the ZooMed and Finnex nano filters don't provide enough flow to be placed under the aquarium (let alone enough flow for an in-line diffusor). Maybe I'll make a smaller inline PVC diffusor instead of the Cerges. Thanks for the input.


----------



## happi

*UPDATE*

i have tested this reactor with whatever method i could think of.

*1st method:* just insert the pvc tube and left the inch from the bottom so water could enter. this wasnt best way to work with such a high flow of my filter 525gph, which was the main reason the bubbles were escaping. 

*2nd method:* put the pvc pipe all the way to the bottom and drilled some holes and results were same as 1st method. 

*3rd method:* sponge or pot scrubber on the bottom, this method works the best and less bubbles coming out now. but still misty type bubbles are coming out, i think am going to remedy this and play around with the setting.


----------



## m00se

*4th method:* Get 20" long filter then use *1st method*


----------



## happi

m00se said:


> *4th method:* Get 20" long filter then use *1st method*


i was thinking about it, but not sure where i can find it cheaper and i think it might be smaller in diamter.

EDIT: the cheapest i found was $42 shipped. i think i might go with this one.


----------



## m00se

This is the one I bought.


----------



## happi

m00se said:


> This is the one I bought.


 
thats the same one i was looking at. you got any pic of your setup. does this one have a same diameter as the 10" one? this one kind of looks too skinny.


----------



## m00se

Give me half an hour and I'll get under there and take a shot of it next to a GE Smart Filter. It looks a little narrower but I think that's an optical illusion. I'm running about 4-5 bps with a Mag-5 pushing it into an L shaped spraybar. All 3/4". No bubbles in tank and a green/yellow checker.


----------



## m00se

When you look into the 10" can and see the area outside of where the downtube is, it doesn't look any bigger than the 20"er - I was concerned about that too when I took it out of the box but in reality, the 20"er is actually slightly larger internal diameter. Not a lot mind you, but rest assured it's not less.

Ok, Hope these help you make your decision. Good luck! BTW I liked those guys where I bought it from. I called them and chatted with a nice lady who answered a few questions. Seemed legit.


----------



## m00se

Also, those are water spots on the OUTSIDE of the clear housing. I just noticed those! At first I thought "hey what's that CO2 doing stuck there" then realized what it was....

Cheers


----------



## happi

looking good, i just ordered one from ebay, $44 shipped. i guess i will have to sell the one i have already made from 10" filter.


----------



## inkslinger

m00se hows it working with the FX5 filter , Do you get a lot of bubbles blown into the tank?
I'm planning on a setup like yours for my Eheim 2262 filter for my 110g tank.


----------



## m00se

inkslinger, I'm running a Danner Mag-5 into it then to an L-shaped spray bar. The FX5 is separate.


----------



## happi

*m00se*

how long does it take for your reactor to disolve all the left behind co2 after the co2 goes off?

so far mine took half an hour to disolve completly. if it takes more than 1 hour or so, then consider this a bad sign.


----------



## m00se

There is no leftover CO2. At 4-5 bps it's completely dissolving. I don't know what the capacity is because I'm not interested in putting my fish to sleep. There is NO gas standing around at the top of the housing. I'm also using the venturi intake that comes with the Mag-5 with the fractionator impeller. I'm using a solid impeller on it though. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. It's nowhere near maxed out as it is.


----------



## stevieo

Hey guys I have a couple questions, I'm running dual filters on my 90g (xp3 and xp4), but I only have one line for co2 coming out of my co2 bottle/regulator/whatever you call it (as I run an atomic diffuser inside the tank) if I wanted to build these reactors do I go with 1? Or build two? And if I do build two, would I be able to get like a t or y fitting to split my co2 lines into two lines and have one for each reactor? The reason I ask is because the way my spray bars are set up, I'm afraid if I only use one reactor one side won't receive the co2 as well as the other. 
Here's an image to show you guys








And also, if you guys have any opinions or ideas on how/where to place my spray bars and intake pipes for optimum circulation let me know. Ive been trying to figure this out for a while now and I just can't seem to get it perfectly. 

Thanks for all the help


----------



## Quesenek

happi said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> i have tested this reactor with whatever method i could think of.
> 
> *1st method:* just insert the pvc tube and left the inch from the bottom so water could enter. this wasnt best way to work with such a high flow of my filter 525gph, which was the main reason the bubbles were escaping.
> 
> *2nd method:* put the pvc pipe all the way to the bottom and drilled some holes and results were same as 1st method.
> 
> *3rd method:* sponge or pot scrubber on the bottom, this method works the best and less bubbles coming out now. but still misty type bubbles are coming out, i think am going to remedy this and play around with the setting.


Here's a something I posted awhile back. Totally fixed the micro bubbles for me. I would try and combine it with the second method.



Quesenek said:


> Here is a tip that I have found out in the seven months mine has been running.
> If you are having trouble with the micro bubbles simply wrap a bit of filter floss around the outside of the tube so that the water+Co2 has to pass through it completely in order for it to exit the canister.
> You would think it would slow down the flow quite a bit but mine has the same flow with or without the floss all you have to do is clean it when you do a water change and your good to go.


----------



## kassysimon

*Sorry to revive but......*

I have followed your design which i think is great but for extra security i decided to insert mu co2 hose as pictured below. I have been asked whether the reactor will still be as useful in my setup compared to the original.

What is your opinion of my setup? Is it as good as the original design?

Does it matter where along the way the co2 is injected as long as it is before the reactor?

Thanks.


----------



## m00se

Not in my experience - In fact it might work better.


----------



## happi

the good thing i notice about this reactor is that you do not loose any flow, it seems even stronger. with my Rex design, i was barely getting enough flow out of it.


----------



## m00se

kassysimon: I had one of those large 10" filter housings and I returned it and got the 20" instead. The mistake I made was that I assumed that the CO2 would dissolve better in the larger diameter environment. It actually needs the length of the water column and not the volume. Have to get gravity working for you.


----------



## inkslinger

kassysimon I would have use a Aqua Medic Tee Reducer instead of the pvc , They come in 22mm and 16mm.


----------



## elwray

I just finished installing my take on the Cerges' Reactor. 














































Out of the CO2 tank, the line goes through a check valve, into the bubble counter, into a second check valve, and then into the reactor.

Does anyone else notice that their bubble counter is no longer a stable rate of bubbles-per-second? I imagine there is some sort of venturi effect occurring due to my placement of the CO2 injection location on the tubing - I believe it may be creating suction on my CO2 line as the water passes through? 

I don't think this should cause any problems since the regulator/needle valve is only going to let "so much" gas through... any thoughts on this?

Otherwise, the only problem I have is that as soon as I started running it, I realized I forgot to install the quick disconnect ball valves :icon_roll  so I am not looking forward to the first day I need to disassemble for cleaning ... oh well might as well leave it as-is right now!


----------



## sketch804

Nice dude! looks exactly what I made for mine..they work so great! My bubble counter works the same, but I have a check valve in the same place as you and right below the bubble counter so that seems about right..It just will start a little slower til part of the line pressurizes, then smooth sailing..
Ha ya I didn't install the ball valves either, forgot to, so instead I just hooked up a release joint (T) undernieth the reactor and drain the extra water out of the line while doing a tank change. It works well for that and to fill buckets or run a hose out the window for water changes with out getting in the tank..










Yours looks great! you will love every second of it ha..good luck with the bubble counter thing.


----------



## happi

*elwray* is that a cf500 filter? flow on that thing is crazy and this reactor release co2 bubbles due to high flow, even if you put sponge on the bottom of the reactor, it still let the co2 escape. i have ordered the 20" filter housing, which i think will fix this problem and i dont have to add any sponge. i will post the results here 2-3 days once i receive it.


----------



## elwray

sketch804 said:


> Nice dude! looks exactly what I made for mine..they work so great! My bubble counter works the same, but I have a check valve in the same place as you and right below the bubble counter so that seems about right..It just will start a little slower til part of the line pressurizes, then smooth sailing..
> Ha ya I didn't install the ball valves either, forgot to, so instead I just hooked up a release joint (T) undernieth the reactor and drain the extra water out of the line while doing a tank change. It works well for that and to fill buckets or run a hose out the window for water changes with out getting in the tank..
> 
> Yours looks great! you will love every second of it ha..good luck with the bubble counter thing.


Thanks for the info! And the compliment, although it really doesn't look "great" - I got purple primer on EVERYTHING :icon_eek: :flick: I don't think I've ever used that stuff without making a huge mess.

When I get home from work today, I'm hoping it has all come to an equilibrium. Actually I'm just hoping that I don't come home to a leaky reactor and 50 gallons of water on the floor, but also that my bubble counter is behaving!

I found the old quick disconnects from my Magnum 350 canister, so I'm going to try to use those in this setup.



happi said:


> *elwray* is that a cf500 filter? flow on that thing is crazy and this reactor release co2 bubbles due to high flow, even if you put sponge on the bottom of the reactor, it still let the co2 escape. i have ordered the 20" filter housing, which i think will fix this problem and i dont have to add any sponge. i will post the results here 2-3 days once i receive it.


It is a CF400. I am not having any bubbles making their way through into the tank with this filter, but the CF500 does have considerably higher flow. Best of luck with the longer filter housing, hopefully that solves the problem for you!


----------



## happi

even with the 20" reactor am still seeing mist type bubbles escaping and coming out of the spray bar. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMCEh8NUEQo


----------



## elwray

happi said:


> even with the 20" reactor am still seeing mist type bubbles escaping and coming out of the spray bar.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMCEh8NUEQo


Have you tried putting some filter floss in the annular space between the canister and the PVC pipe? It ought to "catch" the bubbles so they dissolve before they reach the output.


----------



## happi

elwray said:


> Have you tried putting some filter floss in the annular space between the canister and the PVC pipe? It ought to "catch" the bubbles so they dissolve before they reach the output.


i tried it on the 10" filter and bubble still escaped, so i went with the 20" model and still i see some misty bubbles in my tank.


----------



## Quesenek

happi said:


> i tried it on the 10" filter and bubble still escaped, so i went with the 20" model and still i see some misty bubbles in my tank.


How much did you use?
I just remembered that I basically filled mine up.
1) to reduce the splashing noise, and 2) to make sure there were no ways for the bubbles to escape.


----------



## elwray

Today was the first day I had the reactor running for a full photoperiod without messing with it - it is definitely working! When I was using the ceramic in-tank diffuser, I was able to get the drop checker to a nice pale green -- I left the CO2 flow rate the same when I hooked it up to the Cerges' reactor. 

Came home today to gasping fish and a pale yellow drop checker! Needless to say, the flow rate is now cut back significantly (and added an air line/pump for the night!).


----------



## happi

Quesenek said:


> How much did you use?
> I just remembered that I basically filled mine up.
> 1) to reduce the splashing noise, and 2) to make sure there were no ways for the bubbles to escape.



on the 10" it was about 4-5" covered at bottom with sponge and bubbles still escaped. on the 20" i have no sponge in it, some of the previous posters don't have it either and they have good results so far.


----------



## m00se

I'm running about 4 bps into my 20" and I'm not getting any bubbles in the tank. Watching your video I see you have some large bubbles at the top of the reactor jumping around. Those bubbles look like air, not CO2, so I wonder if because you just installed it that the housing hasn't completely purged atmospheric air out of it yet.

I run mine with a Mag-5 pump full out, which is supposed to be 250 gph, and it looks close to that. I have fine bubbles in the housing but they're tiny, almost invisible. Some do actually make it into the uptake pipe, but by the time they reach the spray bar, they've completely dissolved.

I'll try and get you a video as soon as I can get to it. Probably tomorrow night.


----------



## happi

m00se said:


> I'm running about 4 bps into my 20" and I'm not getting any bubbles in the tank. Watching your video I see you have some large bubbles at the top of the reactor jumping around. Those bubbles look like air, not CO2, so I wonder if because you just installed it that the housing hasn't completely purged atmospheric air out of it yet.
> 
> I run mine with a Mag-5 pump full out, which is supposed to be 250 gph, and it looks close to that. I have fine bubbles in the housing but they're tiny, almost invisible. Some do actually make it into the uptake pipe, but by the time they reach the spray bar, they've completely dissolved.
> 
> I'll try and get you a video as soon as I can get to it. Probably tomorrow night.


i did installed it today and after running it i did let all the air go out by turning it upside down while it was running and i waited for all the remaining air to get dissolved before i turned on the co2. 

maybe am running it at higher bps. if the mist doesnt stop i will try adding some sponge in there.


----------



## hidefguy

I wanted to thank everyone on this thread for this, I also got tired of the 7-Up looking water so I decided to make one last night. Got it hooked up this morning and didn't adjust my co2 and I noticed my drop checker change really quick, it used to take about a couple of hours before it changed to a light green color using my diffuser. I continued to monitor for the next couple of hours and started to notice the drop checker changing to a yellow color and I quickly dialed back the c02. This works really well my plants were pearling like crazy, no more 7-Up looking water, very efficient I went from 5bps to 1bps and quiet.


----------



## happi

m00se said:


> I'm running about 4 bps into my 20" and I'm not getting any bubbles in the tank. Watching your video I see you have some large bubbles at the top of the reactor jumping around. Those bubbles look like air, not CO2, so I wonder if because you just installed it that the housing hasn't completely purged atmospheric air out of it yet.
> 
> I run mine with a Mag-5 pump full out, which is supposed to be 250 gph, and it looks close to that. I have fine bubbles in the housing but they're tiny, almost invisible. Some do actually make it into the uptake pipe, but by the time they reach the spray bar, they've completely dissolved.
> 
> I'll try and get you a video as soon as I can get to it. Probably tomorrow night.


still waiting on the video my friend.


----------



## m00se

Ack! Sorry about that! I've been buried at work and OT. I'll get to it tonight promise


----------



## BigCountry

*My interpretation*

Thank you to everyone who posted their builds here. Here is my interpretation:


----------



## m00se

happi said:


> still waiting on the video my friend.


Upping it to utube right now!


----------



## m00se

BigCountry said:


> Thank you to everyone who posted their builds here. Here is my interpretation:



lookin good BC!


----------



## m00se

Ok happi,

Here ya go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk08C0Fog-I


----------



## le0p

I just built one of these reactors, I don't have it up yet as I still have to get my co2 tank re-filled. My question is, if I use bio media in the housing, will this add to the biological filtration capacity? It seems to me like it would help, but I haven't been able to find much info on this..

I am using this filter housing:http://www.lowes.com/pd_89378-59019-WHKF-DWHBB_4294822071_4294937087_?productId=1201345&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl_Water%2BFiltration%2BSystems%2BFilters_4294822071_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

Thanks!


----------



## elwray

le0p said:


> My question is, if I use bio media in the housing, will this add to the biological filtration capacity? It seems to me like it would help, but I haven't been able to find much info on this..


I don't see any reason, given appropriate bacterial growth surfaces (bioballs/ceramic rings/etc), that the reactor wouldn't add to biological filtration. 

Essentially, it's just a canister filter (driven by an external pump instead of internal impeller) so bacterial should colonize if they can find the real estate to make it their home.

The only reason you might want to reconsider aiming for this, is it can end up impeding the flow once it gets gunked up - but if it's placed _after_ the main filter then it should take a while. And if you're using a clear housing like the one you linked to, you'll be able to see when it needs cleaning.


----------



## m00se

le0p said:


> I just built one of these reactors, I don't have it up yet as I still have to get my co2 tank re-filled. My question is, if I use bio media in the housing, will this add to the biological filtration capacity? It seems to me like it would help, but I haven't been able to find much info on this..


That's the large housing isn't it? You might be able to use ceramic media in it and get some bio action that way. I've never seen actual proof that CO2 impedes bacterial growth in the reactor systems. Maybe someone with a bio background can chime in here with some empirical data.

One thing I *do* know is that I bought that exact same filter, and returned it. It's the length of the can that allows gravity to work in your favor when dissolving the gas, not the width. I made the same mistake. Now, if you added media to the can, it *might* help dissolve the gas more efficiently due to eddy currents.

Good luck


----------



## le0p

Thanks! It will be placed after the filter and it's clear so I'll try it out. 

m00se, thanks for the info, I'm going to go with it for now as I've already got everything glued up. I'll post back once I get it running as to how efficient it is at dissolving co2.


----------



## happi

here is my 3 week setup, i had to tear down the tank due to osmocote, again i still have plant melting here and there due to exces ammoium and nitrate. 

*here is my video:*

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAqki9X7n-E*

MOOSE thanks for your video, looking good roud:

i have played around with the reactor and it seems to work well if you lay it sideway instead of keeping it standing straight up. i also added a diffuser inside the reactor, this actually works very well and co2 diffuse much quicker. if anyone want to try the diffuser method inside the reactor then this is good. you can also try the inline diffuser which should give same results. adding sponge makes a big difference on the diffusion, i added two sponges which fills the reactor almost 8" and this is working very well.


----------



## jart

stevieo said:


> Hey guys I have a couple questions, I'm running dual filters on my 90g (xp3 and xp4), but I only have one line for co2 coming out of my co2 bottle/regulator/whatever you call it (as I run an atomic diffuser inside the tank) if I wanted to build these reactors do I go with 1? Or build two? And if I do build two, would I be able to get like a t or y fitting to split my co2 lines into two lines and have one for each reactor?


Not sure if this question was answered, but... you should be able to get away with using one reactor on a 4 foot tank, "should" being the key word. All tanks are different. But if you do decide to tee the line, you will need a separate needle valve on each line. I'm not sure where you can get a tee, but I'd look in the SnS for folks there that are selling regs and post body kits (I got mine a few years ago from Rex, but he is no longer in business).

Great videos, guys.


----------



## m00se

Thanks jart,

I had just trimmed about 3-4 lbs of plants out of mine before I shot that vid. It looks bare to me! They get away from you so easily sometimes. I'm even contemplating going back to 13w CFLs in this tank, just for a little relief from the trimming. It's got 23w in there now... Tempting...

Cheers


----------



## shrimpNewbie

Is there any filter with 1" in and out? I don't want to throttle my pump that much..


----------



## m00se

The filter that le0p is using has 1" in/out. I tried to source a similar unit in the 20" length but apparently Pentek stopped making them for awhile. I was told by someone (can't remember who now because I talked to so many people) that they started making them again in the 20" clear housings. If you do some research you may find someone interested in getting one for you.

I was very happy with the service and price I got from these guys - you may be able to get one through them.

They seemed eager to answer any questions I had and were pleasant and promptly delivered.

Good luck


----------



## shrimpNewbie

I don't care for the clear I just have a feeling my flow would be a little too much for it


----------



## m00se

http://www.discountfilterstore.com/water-filter-whole-house-pentek-hfpp-pr20.html


----------



## Eviltwist

BigCountry said:


> Thank you to everyone who posted their builds here. Here is my interpretation:
> 
> View attachment 47656
> 
> 
> View attachment 47657


Anyone can tell me what's the name of that fitting for co2 tube and the one that the fitting goes into ?
Is there any way to not use CPVC inside, the Home Depot that's close to me doesn't carry it...


----------



## s_s

Anyone else have problems getting the 3/4" CPVC coupler to fit onto the lid?

My lid's opening is visibly oval shaped. It is Whirlpool branded filter. 

Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## m00se

Eviltwist said:


> Anyone can tell me what's the name of that fitting for co2 tube and the one that the fitting goes into ?
> Is there any way to not use CPVC inside, the Home Depot that's close to me doesn't carry it...



The T shaped fitting is called a "tee" and looks like he used a threaded version - there are two types - threaded and "slip" which is the one you would use with glue. The brass fittings look like a reducer to a nipple.


----------



## m00se

s_s said:


> Anyone else have problems getting the 3/4" CPVC coupler to fit onto the lid?
> 
> My lid's opening is visibly oval shaped. It is Whirlpool branded filter.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?



Not sure what you mean by coupler. If you mean the downtube you fit into the slot where the filter would be, then you need to get the correct length of 1" PVC (not CPVC) and heat the end in boiling water per my suggestion about 30 posts ago, and either enlarge or reduce it to fit the round slot. CPVC will not soften in boiling water - that's why it's used in hot water plumbing. PVC will.


----------



## hidefguy

Eviltwist said:


> Anyone can tell me what's the name of that fitting for co2 tube and the one that the fitting goes into ?
> Is there any way to not use CPVC inside, the Home Depot that's close to me doesn't carry it...


Sorry but I don't know the exact sizes but, this is what I bought at Home Depot not sure of the second piece but its similar. You fit these two together then they go into the Tee. I just pieced everything in the store to make sure everything fit. good luck.


----------



## elwray

I didn't use CPVC for the "downpipe" on my reactor. I used a piece of 1" PVC and glued it in place with 100% silicone. The ID of the 1" PVC was just slightly larger than the OD of the filter's outlet port inside the canister, so it didn't fit as snugly as I would have liked, but the silicone worked out just fine for me.


----------



## m00se

Silicone won't bond to PVC. You have a mechanical seal now, but it won't last. Melting it to form will be satisfactory in the long run.

Cheers


----------



## elwray

All the silicone needed to do was pick up the slack between the pipe and the filter output. I was skeptical at first but it's working just fine for now. Even if I need to rework it later on its no big deal it's easy enough to get into it


----------



## Eviltwist

hidefguy said:


> Sorry but I don't know the exact sizes but, this is what I bought at Home Depot not sure of the second piece but its similar. You fit these two together then they go into the Tee. I just pieced everything in the store to make sure everything fit. good luck.


First part is : Watts / Brass Hose Barb Adapter/ 1/8 in ID x 1/4 in NIP / Number on the package is LFA-85

2nd part is : Watts / Brass Pipe Bushing / 1/2 in MIP x 1/4 in FIP / Number on the package is LFA-827 

Both parts can be found at brass fittings section.

And once again thank you hidefguy for pointing me in the right direction.


----------



## MichaelMcG

in pretty much all of peoples pictures the tee for the co2 is pointing down.. so the "T" is upside down. is there any reason why people don't spin the tee the other way so the co2 just flows up into the tee?

also some people have been saying they have a gurgling sound? i have more of a swishing or a spitting/spraying sound like once every 5-10 seconds. can anybody think of a reason for this? the reactor has been running for a few days now so i know its not a big air pocket. it only makes the sound when the co2 is on but it starts right away not after any co2 build up.


----------



## hidefguy

Eviltwist said:


> First part is : Watts / Brass Hose Barb Adapter/ 1/8 in ID x 1/4 in NIP / Number on the package is LFA-85
> 
> 2nd part is : Watts / Brass Pipe Bushing / 1/2 in MIP x 1/4 in FIP / Number on the package is LFA-827
> 
> Both parts can be found at brass fittings section.
> 
> And once again thank you hidefguy for pointing me in the right direction.


No problem, glad I could help. Btw nice setup, I prob will get a clear housing someday I didn't have the patience to wait tho.


----------



## NWA-Planted

I can't remember if this was asked, or for that matter if I asked it! However I have a standard size housing, 14" or so total height, if I turn up my co2 I get tons of bubbles in the tank, to pick up a 20" housing is fairly costly.. If I picked up another standard housing and ran them in line with co2 going into the first one, do you think this would eliminate my bubbles (my outflow is probably around 900 gph)

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


----------



## inkslinger

Paid $69. for 1" Port.

http://h2odistributors.com/20-big-blue-filter-housings.asp


----------



## m00se

NWA-Planted said:


> I can't remember if this was asked, or for that matter if I asked it! However I have a standard size housing, 14" or so total height, if I turn up my co2 I get tons of bubbles in the tank, to pick up a 20" housing is fairly costly.. If I picked up another standard housing and ran them in line with co2 going into the first one, do you think this would eliminate my bubbles (my outflow is probably around 900 gph)



Just guessing here but I suppose anything that would lengthen the time of contact with the water would help dissolve additional CO2. There are people who use the Cerges and add a ring of coarse sponge or filter material around the center pipe to help keep the bubbles above the bottom and being sucked up before they've dissolved. You might want to try that first, but honestly, 900 gph (FX5?) is a lot of flow. I have an FX5 too and I opted to use a separate pump/loop for the CO2 for that very reason. I don't know what would tame that. Maybe nothing.


----------



## audioaficionado

For high flow filtration loops you could make another loop for the Cerge's reactor and wye it off from the main loop on both ends. Use a ball valve on the main line just above the Cerges' input wye split off to adjust the flow rate balance between the 2 loops so you don't get bubble blow by and full CO2 dissolution.


----------



## chad320

I found this while piecing mine together. A piece of 3/4" PVC fits the hole in this perfectly and I just superglued it into place. Inside the slits in the side of the filter is fine screening. I hoping to push about 900 GPH through it with a Supreme Mag Dive pump. It will still be about a week before I actually get it hooked up.


----------



## In.a.Box

whats the point using the water unit? i dont see how bubble can break down while going through that big thing. doesn't look like there anything that will chop the bubble up.


----------



## Mobert

For those looking for a 20" clear housing with 1" brass outlets, I just got one on ebay for under $26. Search Stagon 20" filter housing.


----------



## audioaficionado

Mobert said:


> For those looking for a 20" clear housing with 1" brass outlets, I just got one on ebay for under $26. Search Stagon 20" filter housing.


Can't wait to see how you put it together.


----------



## fattboa

Hello
Tried doing this but being in Kuwait some parts are pretty hard/impossible to find.
I built it using stainless steel fittings/parts. Only found PVC and not CPVC for the tube inside the filter. GOing to try PVC glue to attach it inside the filter.
Will these minor modifications be ok? Perhaps the stainless fittings will not be air tight?
Also another question, can I use yeast to deliver CO2? Just attach the line to the input at the T? Or should I use another bottle? Tried finding a check valve but no luck


----------



## elwray

fattboa said:


> Hello
> Tried doing this but being in Kuwait some parts are pretty hard/impossible to find.
> I built it using stainless steel fittings/parts. Only found PVC and not CPVC for the tube inside the filter. GOing to try PVC glue to attach it inside the filter.
> Will these minor modifications be ok? Perhaps the stainless fittings will not be air tight?
> Also another question, can I use yeast to deliver CO2? Just attach the line to the input at the T? Or should I use another bottle? Tried finding a check valve but no luck


Unfortunately, PVC cement is going to get you nowhere in that situation. It depends on creating a chemical reaction between the parts, and won't work with the housing - I tried it myself. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## fattboa

elwray said:


> Unfortunately, PVC cement is going to get you nowhere in that situation. It depends on creating a chemical reaction between the parts, and won't work with the housing - I tried it myself.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Apologies. It seems that I bought CPVC cement and a CPVC adapter (to stick the PVC pipe into - they did not have the correct size pipe to attach to inside the filter without the adapter) but the pipe itself is PVC. Any issues with using CPVC cement to glue PVC to CPVC? The PVC fits quite snugly into the CPVC adapter so it is not necessary but just to make sure.
Sorry if these questions are stupid but I am not much of a DIY person.
Is it extremely frustrating trying to do a planted tank over here. I've spent almost a week just searching for the parts and still have a lot left
Thank you for replying
EDIT: I am not sure I read about anyone using this diffuser with DIY yeast as a co2 source. is it even possible?
2nd EDIT: found answer. Seems it is ok with some and some say forget it. Only one way to find out...


----------



## moogleii

Newbie here, just stumbled upon this thread a couple days ago and have been reading like crazy. I broke my Rexx/Barr reactor during transit so I decided to give this one a whirl (snapped the CO2 piping going into the reactor). I definitely like how modular/bolt-on this design is, so I should be able to avoid/repair such damage in the future).

Any reason why the internal up pipe can't just be clear hosing? I think someone did do that (maybe post #5 or so), but that was the last mention of that variant (no comments for or against). I checked my local hardware stores and none of the filter brands that they sell have lids that mate well with a 3/4" cpvc coupling or 1" pvc pipe (GE and Whirlpool ones for those that are wondering). 

I know I can just melt PVC per moose's suggestion, or use glue, but I'd like to just keep it bolt-on simple if I can. I suppose if it came down to it, I could order the same filter that the OP bought off the internet, but I'm impatient


----------



## audioaficionado

If you use aquarium grade silicone adhesive to seal and hold the internal pipes in place, it would be easy to yank them out again at a later time.


----------



## elwray

fattboa said:


> Apologies. It seems that I bought CPVC cement and a CPVC adapter (to stick the PVC pipe into - they did not have the correct size pipe to attach to inside the filter without the adapter) but the pipe itself is PVC. Any issues with using CPVC cement to glue PVC to CPVC? The PVC fits quite snugly into the CPVC adapter so it is not necessary but just to make sure.
> Sorry if these questions are stupid but I am not much of a DIY person.
> Is it extremely frustrating trying to do a planted tank over here. I've spent almost a week just searching for the parts and still have a lot left
> Thank you for replying
> EDIT: I am not sure I read about anyone using this diffuser with DIY yeast as a co2 source. is it even possible?
> 2nd EDIT: found answer. Seems it is ok with some and some say forget it. Only one way to find out...


I've never used CPVC cement, or dealt much with CPVC piping in general, so I can't comment on that - my gut feeling is that it would be similar to using PVC cement in the situation, except this time the pipe will be the part not bonding to the adhesive. But if you have the PVC going into a CPVC slip fitting, you should be able to just put a bead of 100% silicone at the seam and rely on the interference fit for the majority of the seal.

I've never tried doing DIY CO2 with yeast, but the only difference I can see versus using bottle gas is a less consistent CO2 output.

As far as the SS fittings are concerned, use a decent amount of teflon/plumbers tape at the connections and it shouldn't leak. 




moogleii said:


> Newbie here, just stumbled upon this thread a couple days ago and have been reading like crazy. I broke my Rexx/Barr reactor during transit so I decided to give this one a whirl (snapped the CO2 piping going into the reactor). I definitely like how modular/bolt-on this design is, so I should be able to avoid/repair such damage in the future).
> 
> Any reason why the internal up pipe can't just be clear hosing? I think someone did do that (maybe post #5 or so), but that was the last mention of that variant (no comments for or against). I checked my local hardware stores and none of the filter brands that they sell have lids that mate well with a 3/4" cpvc coupling or 1" pvc pipe (GE and Whirlpool ones for those that are wondering).
> 
> I know I can just melt PVC per moose's suggestion, or use glue, but I'd like to just keep it bolt-on simple if I can. I suppose if it came down to it, I could order the same filter that the OP bought off the internet, but I'm impatient


Another idea might be to cut the PVC pipe to a length where it reaches both top AND bottom (essentially replacing the actual filter that goes in it with a piece of PVC pipe the same length to span top to bottom). Drill holes/cut slots in the lower portion of the PVC pipe, and you essentially have the same thing (water enters top, flows to bottom and enters PVC pipe, flows up). You can "seal" the top and bottom portions to the canister/housing with silicone or a gasket - silicone won't really bond, but it should be able to make a good enough seal. I actually pulled off the rubber gaskets from used filters to use in mine - seems to be working pretty well!


----------



## JasonG75

I am in the process of deciding to put together one of these. 

Q1 What's the purpose of the ball Valve? 

Q2 I have 2 canisters, I only really need to hook this up to 1 correct?


----------



## elwray

JasonG75 said:


> I am in the process of deciding to put together one of these.
> 
> Q1 What's the purpose of the ball Valve?
> 
> Q2 I have 2 canisters, I only really need to hook this up to 1 correct?


The ball valve is there to stop water flow if you need to remove the housing storing the PVC pipe in the reactor. Typically you have a valve of some sort built into the tubing on the canister filter to allow maintenance on the canister itself, but since this is "upstream" of those valves, there's no way to open the Cerges' reactor without siphoning from the tank (unless you remove the pipe from the aquarium altogether).

You should only need to hook it up to one - unless you have a really gargantuan tank and can't get enough CO2 with one setup. But functionally speaking, it does not need to be on both for any other reason.


----------



## JasonG75

elwray said:


> The ball valve is there to stop water flow if you need to remove the housing storing the PVC pipe in the reactor.


AWESOME...that's kinda what i was thinking, really for maintaince reason. I just know the Original Cerges build is vastily different than the ones coming out now.

So is there a NEW materials list NOW.


----------



## elwray

JasonG75 said:


> AWESOME...that's kinda what i was thinking, really for maintaince reason. I just know the Original Cerges build is vastily different than the ones coming out now.
> 
> So is there a NEW materials list NOW.


Yeah, it's extremely helpful and just a common sense thing to add...




...that said, I somehow forgot to put one in mine - I even bought it and had it sitting on the workbench as I assembled everything - I am dreading the day I need to tear my whole filter setup apart just to service the reactor :icon_roll LOL


----------



## JasonG75

elwray said:


> service the reactor :icon_roll LOL


Why TYPE of service is NEEDED for the Reactor?


----------



## elwray

JasonG75 said:


> Why TYPE of service is NEEDED for the Reactor?


I added filter floss in mine to try and "trap" the bubbles to give them more time to dissolve in the system... eventually it is going to get gunked up in mulm and it will need to be cleaned out.


----------



## JasonG75

Gotcha, Do you have any current pics of your setup?


----------



## JasonG75

NM I found them


----------



## shrimpNewbie

It won't gunk up in the reactor if you have it in line with a canister that has fine mechanical filtration media, I'll be filling mine with matrix


----------



## audioaficionado

elwray said:


> Another idea might be to cut the PVC pipe to a length where it reaches both top AND bottom (essentially replacing the actual filter that goes in it with a piece of PVC pipe the same length to span top to bottom). Drill holes/cut slots in the lower portion of the PVC pipe, and you essentially have the same thing (water enters top, flows to bottom and enters PVC pipe, flows up). You can "seal" the top and bottom portions to the canister/housing with silicone or a gasket - silicone won't really bond, but it should be able to make a good enough seal. I actually pulled off the rubber gaskets from used filters to use in mine - seems to be working pretty well!


O rings can help seal the slightly smaller PVC pipe in the socket on the top.


----------



## elwray

Yeah, I guess that would be the easy way 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## inkslinger

I had gotten my 20" filter and what a monster, I tapered my pvc by sanding to fit snug in the center of the cover, kind of have to tap the cover down on it to get a good fit. I might add mini bio balls and fill the canister to break up the co2 , {the canister is 21"x5.75"} with 1" port's .


----------



## m00se

As I mentioned about 15 posts ago, you can use boiling water to soften the end of the pvc pipe to soften and shape it. Bioballs are a bad idea. They clog really easily.


----------



## shrimpNewbie

They only clog if the reactor is run without a canister inline before it, the acidity in the reactor will also be significant so using bioballs will be fine, I'm going to fill mine with matrix to add bio filtration after my crazy mech filter


----------



## shrimpNewbie

Inkslinger can you pm me with a link to the one you got


----------



## m00se

shrimpNewbie said:


> They only clog if the reactor is run without a canister inline before it, the acidity in the reactor will also be significant so using bioballs will be fine, I'm going to fill mine with matrix to add bio filtration after my crazy mech filter



That has not been my experience. The acidity in the chamber is negligible as it will be only slightly higher than the tank water, unless you're using a carbonator. Of course, YMMV


Cheers


----------



## shrimpNewbie

And still it won't gunk up with a proper filter behind it using water polishing material will keep the filter free of gunk, give it a try or if you're worried use a clear housing and use union ball valves on both ends of the housing. Makes it easy to service


----------



## m00se

I have, and it will ;-)


----------



## inkslinger

shrimpNewbie said:


> Inkslinger can you pm me with a link to the one you got


http://h2odistributors.com/20-big-blue-filter-housings.asp

Went with the 1" port.


----------



## inkslinger

m00se said:


> As I mentioned about 15 posts ago, you can use boiling water to soften the end of the pvc pipe to soften and shape it. Bioballs are a bad idea. They clog really easily.


IMO: It shouldn't if you got a good filter before the reactor ,I have a Eheim 2262 before it goes into the house filter with 1" ports
http://h2odistributors.com/20-big-blue-filter-housings.asp


----------



## JasonG75

Guys is this the Rex style Reactor? I like the look of it, what would be the disadvatages or this compared to the Cerges?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DizERmyI0

thanks


----------



## fattboa

I finally set it up using 2 yeast CO2 generators. (1 teaspoon of yeast) Been a few minutes but no sign of bubbles, probably should give it some time. Sugar is quite hygroscopic so I suspect there is not enough moisture for the yeast to really ferment (2 cups per 2.25liter bottle)
Is drilling holes smaller than the airline diameter really enough for an airtight seal? I did find answers but not concerning the Cerges reactor. I also used brass T joint and only tightly fit the airline over the threaded end, enough for airtight?
Also, being in Kuwait I only found a brass check valve like this:
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attach...ump-check-valves-brass_spring_check_valve.jpg
Will the pressure produced be enough for the glass to flow through it? I greatly suspect it will not be enough. If it does not work. Any way to make sure water will not creep back into the DIY bubble counter?


----------



## JasonG75

That's ify "Will the pressure produced be enough for the glass to flow through it?" I assume you mean GAS. It does take a while using yeast, but what I found out, when I did the diy yeast method, building a seperate gas seperator (pictured) help produce pressure faster along with using RAPID Yeast instead of the normal yeast.


----------



## audioaficionado

My DIY CO2 setup I used with my Cerges' reactor:

3 cups sugar
1 packet red wine yeast
10ml of Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food 0-0-1 (yeast micronutrients)
3.5qts/3Liters water
1gal plastic juice jug.

I run 2 jugs at once through a tall 1 liter water bottle bubble counter/ethanol alcohol vapor trap into my inline Cerges' reactor. I maintain a lemon-lime drop checker color.

I renew each jug every other week for a very steady bubble rate overall.


----------



## fattboa

JasonG75 said:


> That's ify "Will the pressure produced be enough for the glass to flow through it?" I assume you mean GAS. It does take a while using yeast, but what I found out, when I did the diy yeast method, building a seperate gas seperator (pictured) help produce pressure faster along with using RAPID Yeast instead of the normal yeast.


I did mean gas, apologies for the typo. I did build a separate gas seperator, but I think this brass valve would take quite some pressure to pass through it. Im using active dry yeast (packed with vitamin C I suppose) since there is no rapid rise yeast over here. Perhaps should've proofed it first? I used it in baking and put it directly into the dry mix without issues, should see what happens.
Thank you for your help on both forums.


audioaficionado said:


> My DIY CO2 setup I used with my Cerges' reactor:
> 
> 3 cups sugar
> 1 packet red wine yeast
> 10ml of Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food 0-0-1 (yeast micronutrients)
> 3.5qts/3Liters water
> 1gal plastic juice jug.
> 
> I run 2 jugs at once through a tall 1 liter water bottle bubble counter/ethanol alcohol vapor trap into my inline Cerges' reactor. I maintain a lemon-lime drop checker color.
> 
> I renew each jug every other week for a very steady bubble rate overall.


Thank you, Im using a similar ratio. 
There is no drop checkers here unless I order one or make my own solution. 
I'm assuming you used a T joint to join the two bottles? Can you comment on how you attached them (directly/tape etc)
Apologies for asking/babbling too much.


----------



## shrimpNewbie

Your flow takes a hit when you use a Rex reactor the cerges allows full flow unless you fill it with a lot of media


----------



## JasonG75

shrimpNewbie said:


> Your flow takes a hit when you use a Rex reactor the cerges allows full flow unless you fill it with a lot of media


THANKS, that's what I needed to know.


----------



## fattboa

My post disappeared?
Anyway I tried using the brass check valve and I dont think it will work. 
Removed it and ran the airline tube straight into the inlet at the T joint on the Cerges reactor and water crept back up into the gas separator and is filling the yeast bottles.
I cannot find any plastic check valves in the country. Sounds like I need to try another reactor? or is there a fix?
Thanks


----------



## shrimpNewbie

Get a check valve from petsmart


----------



## audioaficionado

@fattboa
You've got to have a check valve or as the CO2 in the line dissolves, the water will always creep up into your washer bottle. Plastic check valves are pretty cheap in the local tropical fish stores in the USA. You need a check valve that has a low forward cracking pressure. Get a plastic, stainless steel or brass valve with 1 psi or lower cracking pressure if you can.


----------



## fattboa

audioaficionado said:


> @fattboa
> You've got to have a check valve or as the CO2 in the line dissolves, the water will always creep up into your washer bottle. Plastic check valves are pretty cheap in the local tropical fish stores in the USA. You need a check valve that has a low forward cracking pressure. Get a plastic, stainless steel or brass valve with 1 psi or lower cracking pressure if you can.


I can blow past the check valve but I am not sure if the little yeast can.
Availability is a huge issue here, well except for chain restaurants. Local fish stores here do not know or have anything. This is the only check valve I found. I'll look harder.
Thank you


----------



## audioaficionado

Your yeast will generate plenty of pressure. No worries there. It has blown up pop bottles and other strong sealed containers. Sounds like you should try your brass valve anyway. If you can blow through it in only one direction, make sure the forward direction is towards the reactor, not the yeast. Also place it after the gas washing bottle to keep the gunk out of it.


----------



## fattboa

audioaficionado said:


> Your yeast will generate plenty of pressure. No worries there. It has blown up pop bottles and other strong sealed containers. Sounds like you should try your brass valve anyway. If you can blow through it in only one direction, make sure the forward direction is towards the reactor, not the yeast. Also place it after the gas washing bottle to keep the gunk out of it.


The orientation is correct. It is placed after the gas separator before the input at the reactor.
I can blow past the valve it at half effort. If the yeast can blow up soda bottles they certainly should work. I'll try adding silicone to the air holes I created.
Tomorrow Ill look for a regulator and a CO2 cansiter at the everything-flea-market.
Thank you very much for your help and prompt replies.


----------



## moogleii

For future reference, Watts 7/8" ID washer/dishwasher hose fits very snugly in GE (and I believe Whirlpool) filters. No need for glue.


----------



## aquatic serenity

Finally hooked up my 20" version this past weekend ...this thing is way better than the aquariumplants.com version I originally had...you dont need that internal pump they squeeze in there..its complete nonsense...in my unit the CO2 completely dissolves and saturates the water in the 20" tube...I can pump all the CO2 I want in there...
I'll try & post some pics before the week is over...


----------



## inkslinger

aquatic serenity said:


> Finally hooked up my 20" version this past weekend ...this thing is way better than the aquariumplants.com version I originally had...you dont need that internal pump they squeeze in there..its complete nonsense...in my unit the CO2 completely dissolves and saturates the water in the 20" tube...I can pump all the CO2 I want in there...
> I'll try & post some pics before the week is over...


What size pump or filter is being use with this? Did you get the 1" port or the 3/4" port?


----------



## audioaficionado

I'm thinking I'd better snag one of those on E-bay for my future large tank. Show us some pictures of your Cerges' set up with that bad boy.


----------



## hamato

I know it was discussed earlier the merits of this for a 6g, but what about a 20g long? Filter is a Eheim 2215 (163 gph rating). I know it's probably overkill but I love DIY and as long as my filter will put out enough flow for it to work I'd build one


----------



## Jbuck

Has anyone in uk built one of these from these instructions? Just wondering if someone knew of a readily available filter as the omni ob1 is only available from USA from what I have found


Juwel rio 180
2 angels
2 Siamese flying foxes
3 yo yo loaches
4 Julii corys
10 guppys
1 German blue ram


----------



## sketch804

hamato said:


> I know it was discussed earlier the merits of this for a 6g, but what about a 20g long? Filter is a Eheim 2215 (163 gph rating). I know it's probably overkill but I love DIY and as long as my filter will put out enough flow for it to work I'd build one


Now a 20gal sounds a lot better. I think it will work fine and Cerges reactor barely cuts flow down, least not enough to notice, just as long as its free from media. Good luck!


----------



## audioaficionado

hamato said:


> I know it was discussed earlier the merits of this for a 6g, but what about a 20g long? Filter is a Eheim 2215 (163 gph rating). I know it's probably overkill but I love DIY and as long as my filter will put out enough flow for it to work I'd build one


I'm running my reactor in series with a Marineland Magnum 350 and I don't have any flow restriction or filtration issues in my 45 gal tank.


----------



## elwray

audioaficionado said:


> I'm running my reactor in series with a Marineland Magnum 350 and I don't have any flow restriction or filtration issues in my 45 gal tank.


You could put a school bus in line with a Magnum 350 and not notice any restriction in flow :flick: Those things are pretty much tanks! They might not have the bells and whistles of "new" canisters, but I've had two running 24/7 for about 5+ years now with zero problems.


----------



## aquatic serenity

inkslinger said:


> What size pump or filter is being use with this? Did you get the 1" port or the 3/4" port?


 
Eheim 2217 ...3/4" port....


----------



## inkslinger

hamato said:


> I know it was discussed earlier the merits of this for a 6g, but what about a 20g long? Filter is a Eheim 2215 (163 gph rating). I know it's probably overkill but I love DIY and as long as my filter will put out enough flow for it to work I'd build one


I think a 10" house filter will work for you.


----------



## inkslinger

elwray said:


> You could put a school bus in line with a Magnum 350 and not notice any restriction in flow :flick: Those things are pretty much tanks! They might not have the bells and whistles of "new" canisters, but I've had two running 24/7 for about 5+ years now with zero problems.


I had use a Mag 350 as a reactor , just remove the media container and I added some bio balls , The motor sits on the bottom so there is no air lock's to worry .


----------



## aquatic serenity

inkslinger said:


> I had use a Mag 350 as a reactor , just remove the media container and I added some bio balls , The motor sits on the bottom so there is no air lock's to worry .


 
I'd LOVE to see a picture of the mag350 setup !...sounds interesting


----------



## inkslinger

aquatic serenity said:


> I'd LOVE to see a picture of the mag350 setup !...sounds interesting


Sorry to say , that was years back {10yrs} I've done move up in equipment . It does work great for a 55g tank.


----------



## DeusExCalibur

Anyone else use this filter from home depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/Kitchen-Water-Dispensers-Filters-Whole-House-Systems/h_d1/N-aqz5Z5yc1v/R-100471282/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

What size coupling and pipe did you use for the inside? I bought 3/4" CPVC pipe and it's definitely too small for the hole. I'm guessing 3/4" regular PVC would work, but I'd prefer confirmation from anyone with the same filter before I go out again. Thanks


----------



## sketch804

DeusExCalibur said:


> Anyone else use this filter from home depot:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/Kitchen-Wa...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051
> 
> What size coupling and pipe did you use for the inside? I bought 3/4" CPVC pipe and it's definitely too small for the hole. I'm guessing 3/4" regular PVC would work, but I'd prefer confirmation from anyone with the same filter before I go out again. Thanks



Ya I did use that one, and I believe that I used 3/4" coupling. Even the filters for this use that size so you should be fine. Ya I figured out the same last minute when I was making mine.


----------



## DeusExCalibur

sketch804 said:


> Ya I did use that one, and I believe that I used 3/4" coupling. Even the filters for this use that size so you should be fine. Ya I figured out the same last minute when I was making mine.
> 
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7201/6842977228_44f92c2d92_b.jpg[ /IMG][/QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks mate, I figured 3/4" should fit. Now to find the strength to go back to Home Depot in this heat wave.


----------



## DeusExCalibur

Haha geeze, well I went back to HD and returned the CPVC and bought regular 3/4" PVC + coupling. I get home and now it's too big. I'm thinking I'll go back and this time bring the filter top with me and see what works. In case I don't find anything, I realized that some extra tubing from my canister filter fits perfectly into the hole. Any reason why this wouldn't work? Would it be a good idea to put a little pvc cement to seal the tubing into the hole? Thanks for any input.


----------



## m00se

Is there any reason why you can't boil some water? Because several times in this thread I pointed out that you can easily mold PVC (*not CPVC*) to the size/shape you need simply by boiling water and resting the end of the pipe in it for about 10 seconds. Form to shape (force it into the ring or force a suitable size object into it to enlarge) and you're done. No need for glue or gaskets or other...


----------



## m00se

DeusExCalibur said:


> Would it be a good idea to put a little pvc cement to seal the tubing into the hole? Thanks for any input.


No reason it wouldn't work. PVC cement will not bond to vinyl.


----------



## DeusExCalibur

m00se said:


> Is there any reason why you can't boil some water? Because several times in this thread I pointed out that you can easily mold PVC (*not CPVC*) to the size/shape you need simply by boiling water and resting the end of the pipe in it for about 10 seconds. Form to shape (force it into the ring or force a suitable size object into it to enlarge) and you're done. No need for glue or gaskets or other...


Interesting, I'll definitely try boiling and see if I can get it to work. Thanks.


----------



## NWA-Planted

m00se said:


> Just guessing here but I suppose anything that would lengthen the time of contact with the water would help dissolve additional CO2. There are people who use the Cerges and add a ring of coarse sponge or filter material around the center pipe to help keep the bubbles above the bottom and being sucked up before they've dissolved. You might want to try that first, but honestly, 900 gph (FX5?) is a lot of flow. I have an FX5 too and I opted to use a separate pump/loop for the CO2 for that very reason. I don't know what would tame that. Maybe nothing.


Sump tank with a 1350 gph rated pump 

Dialed back a bit of course

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DeusExCalibur

Welp, finally got things figured out. 3/4" PVC coupling DOES indeed fit inside the filter, but only if it's the slip-threaded type connector. Go figure. 

Anyways, everything's put together and the PVC cement + primer has been dried for at least 10 hours now, way past it's proper curing time. I know it should be safe to run at this point, but should I be concerned that I can still smell the cement?


----------



## Jbuck

Where abouts do you guys put your bubble counters if used on these reactors is it just between the regulator and reactor. Also does it have to be in a vertical position?


Juwel rio 180
2 angels
2 Siamese flying foxes
3 yo yo loaches
4 Julii corys
10 guppys
1 German blue ram


----------



## sketch804

Jbuck said:


> Where abouts do you guys put your bubble counters if used on these reactors is it just between the regulator and reactor. Also does it have to be in a vertical position?
> 
> 
> Juwel rio 180
> 2 angels
> 2 Siamese flying foxes
> 3 yo yo loaches
> 4 Julii corys
> 10 guppys
> 1 German blue ram



Yes it needs to be vertical so your fluid doesn't get into your aquarium. and I use an inline bubble counter mounted to my stand underneath the cabinet. Between the regulator and the reactor, any place on that line, it doesn't really matter. Good luck!


----------



## sketch804

DeusExCalibur said:


> Welp, finally got things figured out. 3/4" PVC coupling DOES indeed fit inside the filter, but only if it's the slip-threaded type connector. Go figure.
> 
> Anyways, everything's put together and the PVC cement + primer has been dried for at least 10 hours now, way past it's proper curing time. I know it should be safe to run at this point, but should I be concerned that I can still smell the cement?


Even after 2-3 days mine smelled like cement, but I washed it out, went ahead and connected it and haven't had any problems since, and that was like 2+ months ago I think..


----------



## aquatic serenity

with my 20" reactor I am also noticing an added benefit: less CO2 consumed because it is so completely dissolved in the 20" chamber..
I need less bps than with my 10" canister...
anyone else notice this ??


----------



## inkslinger

aquatic serenity said:


> with my 20" reactor I am also noticing an added benefit: less CO2 consumed because it is so completely dissolved in the 20" chamber..
> I need less bps than with my 10" canister...
> anyone else notice this ??


I haven't got my up and running yet , How big is your pump?


----------



## chuckz07

First off, sorry for the cruddy cell phone pics...

Ok, I decided to show my setup thanks to this thread. I've been running it for awhile now and I like it. I built many RG style reactors and wasn't happy. To be honest, I built this quite a while back and then chunked it in the corner to try something different along the RG style. Came back to this a few months ago though. Anyway, it is being pushed via a Fluval 405 and the dual scrubbies sure helped with the bubbles. The other day I bought the stand so I'll be adding some valves and such to make cleaning easier.










Now here is something interesting I found at HD in the irrigation dept. For the cost I decided WTH and tried it. The inlet port swivels. I was leary of it leaking but it has been running for a couple months with not issues. It doesn't leak in or out. Kinda makes things a little less bulky. 










Here is the fitting:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_234223-1029-MLA-SPR1_4294723989__?productId=1169951&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1


----------



## gh0zt

Just finished mine and I had a question, can anyone tell me why my reactor is not filling all the way up? I can turn my canister filter off, have the reactor fill all the way up, but as soon as I start my filter again the reactor empties to this same spot. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## m00se

You have an air leak in the intake line somewhere before the reactor - are you using sponges or anything in the reactor that would make the canister pull harder than it normally would? That's classic right there....clogged prefilter or other cause of leaning out the pump somehow.


----------



## gh0zt

I stepped out for 6 hrs and came home to a completly full reactor. Not exactly sure how that happened, but I assume outflow was faster than a 20" reactor housing can fill up so it filled little by little.


----------



## inkslinger

gh0zt said:


> I stepped out for 6 hrs and came home to a completly full reactor. Not exactly sure how that happened, but I assume outflow was faster than a 20" reactor housing can fill up so it filled little by little.


 Trap Air , The housing with a Bleed Valve or button would had been faster to bleed the trap air out.


----------



## sketch804

For mine, I just finally got rid of the minimal bubbles I had by just putting a small sponge filter from an overflow box (very airy). Now my water is as clear as could be and still have decent flow and good CO2 distribution. I use a Fluval 305 also for flow rating purposes.


----------



## gh0zt

I'm noticing that my reactor behaves normally when the co2 is off. Put a drop checker into my tank over night and its bright yellow even with no co2. I think my problem is way too much co2 getting pushed into the reactor.


----------



## audioaficionado

I was able to keep it bright yellow even on yeastie-beastie style CO2. I'm almost out of CO2 on my 20# tank. It will last another few weeks even at 300psi LOL. This tank has lasted since last summer. There is just not the wastage you get with bubble diffusers.


----------



## jcgd

Has anyone tried a phosban reactor? I may lik one up today and try it instead of the whole house filter housing. Same general design, it just made to house Purigen and the like. I found one for $50, 4.5" by 15".


----------



## inkslinger

jcgd said:


> Has anyone tried a phosban reactor? I may lik one up today and try it instead of the whole house filter housing. Same general design, it just made to house Purigen and the like. I found one for $50, 4.5" by 15".


Had a LFS use them on a 125g display tank with a 20lb co2 tank. IMO: I think it would work better on 55g tanks and below .


----------



## Trickerie

Heres my reactor. How long can I expect the air bubbles being sprayed out? Im guessing its normal until all of the trapped air is released.


----------



## sketch804

day or two and you should be fine.


----------



## Trickerie

Its cleared up already, after only about 15 mins or so. Sweet!

Btw, if anyone is interested, for my down pipe inside the reactor, I used a length of the black dishwasher hose. Its not stiff, but stiff enough to where it doesn't bend. It fits TIGHT on the outflow part without any glue or anything. Plumber dude at home depot showed me it.


----------



## jcgd

Just wanted to add my phosban reactor - reactor in here. Pretty simple and same idea as the rest. The reactor is too restrictive for a tank my size (165 gallon) but as inkslinger said it would probably be good for 55 or less. It's building up gas for me at my current feed rate but I think it would run fine for a smaller tank. I have mine fed by a Eheim 1250 right now. It would probably be fine if the input/output weren't so small but I need a bit more flow.


----------



## inkslinger

I've just install my 20" reactor with 3bps for my 110g tank. 
I drop from 8.7 ph down to 7.3 ph in 2 hr and I'm running a Eheim 2262 filter . I did add a 1" pvc with a 3" suction screen and fill the reactor with mini bio balls , I have no noise and no bubbles coming out like I did with the ext 5000 reactor. :hihi: 




aquatic serenity said:


> with my 20" reactor I am also noticing an added benefit: less CO2 consumed because it is so completely dissolved in the 20" chamber..
> I need less bps than with my 10" canister...
> anyone else notice this ??


----------



## inkslinger

Will I finely finish my reactor , I got too say this works great with my Eheim 2262 filter. I have a 3in x 1in suction screen on a 1in pvc then I added bio mini balls and fill it to the rim, It dissolves all my co2 and am able to run my bubble count way less than when I had the ext 5000 reactor , no bubbles being blown into my 110g tank and it's so quit.
The pic shows how big the reactor is to the ext 5000 and I use a 5/8in tee from aqua medic for my co2 and with the bleed valve on the filter makes filling with water a breeze so far a 10lb co2 tank last me 6 months with the ext 5000 reactor, I hope with this new set-up I can get at least another 2 months


----------



## temple2101

Hey all, I just built this reactor last week, and at first everything seemed great (still does for the most part, especially with CO2 diffusion). My issue is that I keep getting good size bubbles blown out of my spray bar, but I think they're just air and not CO2. I've shaken my Eheim 2213 to ensure no trapped air there and after the first day it was fine. Now, after a few days, I can't seem to shake the bubbles. Also, after a few hours on day one, the thing ran silent. Now I can hear the water running through it from 5-10 feet away. The filter I used is the GE one shown on here from Home Depot that has the valve to purge the air. Tried that numerous times and just doesn't seem to work.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Joe


----------



## inkslinger

temple2101 said:


> Hey all, I just built this reactor last week, and at first everything seemed great (still does for the most part, especially with CO2 diffusion). My issue is that I keep getting good size bubbles blown out of my spray bar, but I think they're just air and not CO2. I've shaken my Eheim 2213 to ensure no trapped air there and after the first day it was fine. Now, after a few days, I can't seem to shake the bubbles. Also, after a few hours on day one, the thing ran silent. Now I can hear the water running through it from 5-10 feet away. The filter I used is the GE one shown on here from Home Depot that has the valve to purge the air. Tried that numerous times and just doesn't seem to work.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks!
> Joe


 I was getting that when I was using the ext 5000 filter , I was pushing my Eheim 2262 filter thru the 10" house filter , the force of the water was pushing the co2 thru the scrub pad and out into the tank. Maybe what you need is something to breakup your flow going in the house filter. Like my post 439, with pic's of my new co2 reactor mine is still running nice and silent and no bubbles in my tank and my reactor stays full with water 24/7.


----------



## Mobert

Mobert said:


> For those looking for a 20" clear housing with 1" brass outlets, I just got one on ebay for under $26. Search Stagon 20" filter housing.


Here are a few pictures:
























I don't remember all the fittings I used for this. I just went to Home Depot and used what I found. I'm not sure why the housing said 1" fittings but my pvc fittings says 3/4' but it all works wonderfully and is connected after my Eheim 2075 filter with 16/22mm hoses. I do believe I used a 1-1/2" pvc with holes drilled in the bottom for the pipe inside the filter. It seems to not restrict water flow at all.


----------



## temple2101

inkslinger said:


> I was getting that when I was using the ext 5000 filter , I was pushing my Eheim 2262 filter thru the 10" house filter , the force of the water was pushing the co2 thru the scrub pad and out into the tank. Maybe what you need is something to breakup your flow going in the house filter. Like my post 439, with pic's of my new co2 reactor mine is still running nice and silent and no bubbles in my tank and my reactor stays full with water 24/7.


Thanks for the response! In my original post I said I didn't think it was the CO2, but you're right, it is. After I wrote the post, about an hour later my lights turned off for the evening, as well as my CO2. I noticed I no longer heard the reactor, so I went up to the tank and low and behold... no bubbles. So you filled the reactor with bio balls? What is the suction screen you mentioned?

Thanks!
Joe


----------



## inkslinger

temple2101 said:


> Thanks for the response! In my original post I said I didn't think it was the CO2, but you're right, it is. After I wrote the post, about an hour later my lights turned off for the evening, as well as my CO2. I noticed I no longer heard the reactor, so I went up to the tank and low and behold... no bubbles. So you filled the reactor with bio balls? What is the suction screen you mentioned?
> 
> Thanks!
> Joe


It's a Inland Seas Suction Screen like my 6" x 1" npt clear on the right ,I also had a 3" x 1" npt is what I use for my set-up . I cut the end off so I could go all the way to the bottom of the canister filter and use a 1" npt coupler and a 1" pvc pipe for my out-put. I was able to push the mini bio balls thru the 1" ports that my filter housing has and fill it, Next time I'm going try with out them since the housing is over 20" long .


----------



## generalpetres

i have my cerges reactor all built but was wanting to add either bio balls or foam to help make sure the co2 is fully mixed. which do you guys recommend?


----------



## m00se

generalpetres said:


> i have my cerges reactor all built but was wanting to add either bio balls or foam to help make sure the co2 is fully mixed. which do you guys recommend?



Nothing. Whatever you put in there will get gunked up and will require maintenance. Better to control your flow so that you have balance between flow rate and CO2 rate. You want enough flow to dissolve your CO2 but not so much that it blows the bubbles into the tank....


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## Sethjohnson30

Greyskull said:


> I used your idea today and built the reactor, it's works great. I hooked it up to my FX5 filter.
> 
> Thanks for the idea.


Do you have pics, of this how did you go about attaching the hose? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## temple2101

generalpetres said:


> i have my cerges reactor all built but was wanting to add either bio balls or foam to help make sure the co2 is fully mixed. which do you guys recommend?


I cut a Rena 20ppi filter pad (http://www.amazon.com/Pack-20ppi-Foam-Filter-Filstar/dp/B007QMV0FY) to fit in my reactor.  Before I did this I was getting bubbles in my tank. After, not a single bubble. Yes, it requires maintenance, but I ordered another double tap for my Eheim 2213 so I could remove each component individually and it makes maintenance quick and easy. Once a month cleaning is all that is required for me which I can live with.


----------



## starquestMM

I went to my local Lowes today and looked at the filter housings they had. One of them was a "heavy duty filter" that was the standard 10" long but had a larger diameter. The housing was probably 7-8" diameter compared to the normal 4-5". 

Has anyone run one of the larger diameter versions? Going from 5" to 7" diameter almost doubles the cross sectional area. So for any particular pump flow rate the speed of the water column in the reactor would also be halved. That should help with bubbles escaping, contact time, and maybe even noise right?

Only downside is it was $63 for the clear version (3/4" fittings).


----------



## starquestMM

If I can post a link: 

Whirlpool whole house filter


----------



## m00se

starquestMM said:


> Only downside is it was $63 for the clear version (3/4" fittings).



The other downside is that it won't work any better than the narrow 10" unit. I tried one. It wasn't better. You want contact time, and that comes from a taller 20" unit, not a wider one. Go for the online $38 job.

GL


----------



## xxnirvana69xx

Anyone that used the T for the co2 connection, can you give me the sizes of fittings for it? That's the only thing keeping me from building this...


----------



## sketch804

I believe the T is 3/4 inch on the ends and the screw top is 1/2 inch or @least that's what I used. The brass pieces I just lined up at the shop, not sure but I think 1/2 to 1/8th inch and then the 1/8th inch nipple.


----------



## xxnirvana69xx

sketch804 said:


> I believe the T is 3/4 inch on the ends and the screw top is 1/2 inch or @least that's what I used. The brass pieces I just lined up at the shop, not sure but I think 1/2 to 1/8th inch and then the 1/8th inch nipple.


I guess my Home Depot and Lowes suck lmfao. If I could piece that together I'm set. I also need to decide if I want to try to fit my 5/8" hose over the 3/4" fitting or clamp it down to the 1/2".


----------



## sketch804

xxnirvana69xx said:


> I guess my Home Depot and Lowes suck lmfao. If I could piece that together I'm set. I also need to decide if I want to try to fit my 5/8" hose over the 3/4" fitting or clamp it down to the 1/2".


Ya I was at one of the two places piecing the whole thing together, took it home and made it in 15 mins..Good luck!


----------



## inkslinger

xxnirvana69xx said:


> I guess my Home Depot and Lowes suck lmfao. If I could piece that together I'm set. I also need to decide if I want to try to fit my 5/8" hose over the 3/4" fitting or clamp it down to the 1/2".


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165975&highlight=ext5000


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## snakebite

Perfect, I'm hoping to make one this weekend.

Couple questions - 

The reactor goes into the output hose correct?(pictures abit confusing on here)
My output is about 4"-5" below the water. Should I extend my output so it's closer to the ground so co2 can stay in the water longer?


----------



## leros

What is the consensus on using a Cerges reactor on a high flow line? My sump's return line is about 600gph and I'd like to put a reactor directly on it.


----------



## inkslinger

leros said:


> What is the consensus on using a Cerges reactor on a high flow line? My sump's return line is about 600gph and I'd like to put a reactor directly on it.


 I use my 20 x 4.5 Big Blue Reactor on my Eheim 2262 filter and have no issues with it in my 110g tank.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165975&highlight=ext5000


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## happi

leros said:


> What is the consensus on using a Cerges reactor on a high flow line? My sump's return line is about 600gph and I'd like to put a reactor directly on it.


co2 will escape quickly from the reactor and you will see more bubbles in the tank instead of complete diffusion of co2.


----------



## sketch804

so happi, what do you suggest for a sump or a high flow filter?? I wanna use [email protected] but the mist is killing me..i run the line into the return pump right now and I only get but so much diffusion. Thanks!


----------



## happi

sketch804 said:


> so happi, what do you suggest for a sump or a high flow filter?? I wanna use [email protected] but the mist is killing me..i run the line into the return pump right now and I only get but so much diffusion. Thanks!


i don't know much about sump, but, i do know that it will take out lot of co2. with the high flow filter you must use 20" or higher housing and use a sponge inside it, this will help the co2 from escaping and you also get better diffusing this way.


----------



## Kathyy

I was getting a few bubbles out of the 20" Cerges with the Rio 2500 even though there was more than 10' of PVC to the spraybar but now no bubbles even though the Cerges is nearly directly underneath the bulkhead going to the tank from the sump. No idea how that could be but it is. Rio 2500 is supposed to have 530 gph at 4' head. I count 4 90* elbows including the ones in the reactor itself so the pump might be producing 400 gph through the Cerges. http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

Putting a reactor on the return will cut its gph right there. The Rio was keeping 2 U tubes full when I just had the CO2 line stuck in the pump's intake but when I put the Cerges on the second U tube kept getting bubbles in it due to flow that wasn't quite adequate.


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## leros

happi said:


> i don't know much about sump, but, i do know that it will take out lot of co2. with the high flow filter you must use 20" or higher housing and use a sponge inside it, this will help the co2 from escaping and you also get better diffusing this way.


I suspect that my sump wont' be causing much CO2 loss. The way my Herbie overflow is setup, no air at all goes into my overflow. It's practically a full siphon.


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## TexasCichlid

I'm considering building one of these as my Sera Flore 500 is cutting too much of my flow, and not dissolving my CO2 very well. Still getting microbubbles. I have an Eheim 2028 on a 60p aquarium. Should I get the standard 10" housing or go for the big boy 20" housing? I want no bubbles from the CO2.


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## m00se

Don't get the big blue or clear units. You want the 20" tall REGULAR size diameter ones. The big blue is twice as wide and has 1" in/outs. 

http://www.discountfilterstore.com/water-filter-whole-house-pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html

This is the one I have. It's the clear one. The blue ones are about $28 iirc. Add a wrench and mounting bracket, as they aren't included at those prices.


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## TexasCichlid

m00se said:


> Don't get the big blue or clear units. You want the 20" tall REGULAR size diameter ones. The big blue is twice as wide and has 1" in/outs.
> 
> http://www.discountfilterstore.com/water-filter-whole-house-pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html
> 
> This is the one I have. It's the clear one. The blue ones are about $28 iirc. Add a wrench and mounting bracket, as they aren't included at those prices.


Ordered. What sort of fittings did you end up using? I'd like a T to input the CO2 as opposed to drilling the top. I know the design has evolved a bit since the beginning and it seems like everyone does something a little different.


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## m00se

I use a Mag 5 fractionating pump (made for skimmers) with the intake they come with. Looks like this:










You could easily bring the line from your CO2 bottle up into the aquarium and stick it into the intake pipe and do the exact same thing. When I did it that way I cut a 1" long piece of wooden chopstick and stuffed it into the end of the CO2 line. That wasn't necessary either but I was trying to make it a little quieter.


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## Sethjohnson30

m00se said:


> Don't get the big blue or clear units. You want the 20" tall REGULAR size diameter ones. The big blue is twice as wide and has 1" in/outs.
> 
> http://www.discountfilterstore.com/water-filter-whole-house-pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html
> 
> This is the one I have. It's the clear one. The blue ones are about $28 iirc. Add a wrench and mounting bracket, as they aren't included at those prices.


Why should you not use the big blue, I need 1" outputs for my fx5 would I have Any issues with my set up?


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## leros

I bought the Pentek 20" clear housing off of Amazon. I think it's the same filter that you guys are linking to.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0061BS6RG

The Pentek is only a 4" wide housing. If that doesn't work for my flow, there is a 7" wide housing that I saw in various places.

Amazon link for the larger housing: 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0061XS9S0


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## m00se

Sethjohnson30 said:


> Why should you not use the big blue, I need 1" outputs for my fx5 would I have Any issues with my set up?


It would be fine in your case to use the wider unit. I have mine in a separate loop from my FX5. Just making sure that he got the 20" tall one, whichever he chose.


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## Sethjohnson30

Yeah I'm still trying to decide if I want it on its own loop or on my fx5. How much do you guys think my flow will be affected?


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## m00se

When I was making the decision, the Mag 5 was on sale for $55 and the filter housing was $5 less than now, so about $38. With the additional hose and hardware it came to within a spit-shot of the price of the bigger housing, so I went for it. I can't tell you it will make a significant difference in the flow because I have no empirical data to refer to. I'm sure it will but how much I don't know.. My gut tells me "not much" but then I don't know your exact setup or requirements. I can tell you that in my system, the filter adds very little resistance. Add elbows and barbs that have reduced IDs and it may or may not be worth worrying about. One way to find out is to try it and let us know! If designed with the thought that you might have to go discreet loop, the parts can be repurposed to that end and you're only out the time and effort.


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## Sethjohnson30

The only downside I'm seeing to a closed loop is more equipment in the tank... But that doesn't really bother me. My tank used to have no equipment-everything was inline. It was a pita. It's not like anybody came over and said " wow there is no equipment in the tank" 

Since then I have sold my lily pipes(which cleaning them makes them not worth having) I also sold my atomizer(worthless) and I still have an almost new hydor 300w chillin on a shelf. I'm now using the stock fluval input and out put with one of those tiny little terra heaters they sell at Walmart(I think it's a 25w) and I am 10x happier with it. I honestly don't know why that heater works so well in my 72g, but it does and I recommend it. It's small and easy to hide, it works great. 

My tank is just starting to grow in again after a major rescape and equipment upgrade(replaced xp2 with an fx5) 

I have the fluval running full bore.this tank will be heavily planted much like it was before I'm currently getting 600gph with my set up. I'm not sure that a flow reduction would really hurt me....but since my huge bga break out due to lack of flow I have become a flow nazi. 








before the tear down








These are how it was planted before. I plan I plan on planting it heavier than before 








this is now(lots of room to grow)


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## TexasCichlid

I thought one of the main appeal of Cerges was not much reduction in flow. My Sera Flore 500 is killing my flow and that's why I was thinking of switching.


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## TexasCichlid

Well my filter housing came in. Bought this one. It is gigantic.

http://www.discountfilterstore.com/water-filter-whole-house-pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html

Will be overkill on my tank but I want no CO2 bubbles. Period. Can anyone post or PM me the materials I need for this thing to hook up to 5/8 tubing, including the T junction for the CO2? I've not done any plumbing or the such so this is a bit foreign.


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## m00se

List of materials (might miss something - it always happens!). These are just pix I took off various sites and they're a mishmash of colors and sizes due to my inherent laziness. ;-) Please do look in Lowes or Home Depot for these items because all of them are usually there and you can make a fun game out of finding them! Lowes has a better selection of parts like this, as HD has decided that allocating real estate to $2 parts doesn't make them rich enough anymore.

Good luck and keep asking if you need to.


*2*- 5/8" male barb to 3/4" NPT male threaded, for the house filter in/out:










*1* 5/8" T barb with male NPT, for the CO2 injection:










*1* matching female NPT to barb the size of your CO2 hose (3/16" is standard) This one might end up being brass, and that's ok:










Teflon Tape to wrap around threads (6 turns minimum, clockwise to the threads so that it stays on when you tighten the fittings:












Metal Hose Clamps (as many as needed):










One First Aid Kit:











Ok, I think that should hopefully get you started.


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## TexasCichlid

Moose. Thanks for taking so much time to help. I will report back with my results.


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## DaTrueDave

TexasCichlid said:


> Well my filter housing came in. Bought this one. It is gigantic.
> 
> http://www.discountfilterstore.com/water-filter-whole-house-pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html
> 
> Will be overkill on my tank but I want no CO2 bubbles. Period. Can anyone post or PM me the materials I need for this thing to hook up to 5/8 tubing, including the T junction for the CO2? I've not done any plumbing or the such so this is a bit foreign.


I just bought the same housing from the same place. I'm going to be looking on Amazon.com for the pieces that Moose listed and, if I remember, I'll list them here with links.


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## TexasCichlid

DaTrueDave said:


> I just bought the same housing from the same place. I'm going to be looking on Amazon.com for the pieces that Moose listed and, if I remember, I'll list them here with links.


I would appreciate that. I will try Lowes but ours is very busy all the time and poorly staffed/stocked.


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## inkslinger

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165975&highlight=ext5000

I got my parts from here 1" - 3/4" - 5/8" and use a Aqua Medic 5/8" tee
http://www.tractorsupply.com/


----------



## DaTrueDave

DaTrueDave said:


> I'm going to be looking on Amazon.com for the pieces that Moose listed and, if I remember, I'll list them here with links.


I had no luck with Amazon and ended up getting everything from Lowes. 

Everything seems to be working as it should except I need to crank the filter housing a bit tighter (gonna need wrenches, as it's already as tight as I could get it by hand), it's leaking about one drop of water per hour right now, which isn't a big deal, but I'm not comfortable with any leak, really. 

The other thing is that I don't think it's getting enough water flowing through it. It's on the output of my Eheim 2226, and a pocket of CO2 is forming at the top of the reactor. No bubbles are driven even a third of the way down the filter housing. It's acting like more of a bell than a reactor. Guess I just need a stronger pump?


----------



## m00se

DaTrueDave said:


> I had no luck with Amazon and ended up getting everything from Lowes.
> 
> Everything seems to be working as it should except I need to crank the filter housing a bit tighter (gonna need wrenches, as it's already as tight as I could get it by hand), it's leaking about one drop of water per hour right now, which isn't a big deal, but I'm not comfortable with any leak, really.
> 
> The other thing is that I don't think it's getting enough water flowing through it. It's on the output of my Eheim 2226, and a pocket of CO2 is forming at the top of the reactor. No bubbles are driven even a third of the way down the filter housing. It's acting like more of a bell than a reactor. Guess I just need a stronger pump?


#1 - DON'T CRANK THAT CAP DOWN!!!

You can crack them EASILY by over tightening them. A wrench is a good idea to get because once they seat they're a bltch to get off again, and unless you got another strong guy to hold it while you twist, you're not gonna have a good time. If you go onto the DIY house repair forums you'll learn that this is a major gripe about whole house filter systems. Beware.

#2 - APPLY VASELINE!! Put COPIOUS amounts on the flat rim where the cap touches the base, and also on the O-ring all the way around. Put some on the threads too. This will help reduce the friction and get that seal to work. You shouldn't have leakage. Is your downpipe touching the floor of the base and keeping the O-ring from seating? If so you might want to trim it up a bit. In any case, keep in mind that some day you're going to want to get that base off and things you do now will greatly facilitate it.

I run a Supreme Mag 7 on mine, and I back it off with a ball valve a bit, but not much. There's plenty of flow. I also bought some dollar store pot scrubbies that have handles and removed the plastic mesh and used them around the downpipe.








<---- Unscrew the center piece and a perfect little ring of scrubbie is presented for your downpipe!

You can see one of them here:














No judging!! I was in the process of securing all that spaghetti!

Cheers


----------



## DaTrueDave

m00se said:


> #2 - APPLY VASELINE!! Put COPIOUS amounts on the flat rim where the cap touches the base, and also on the O-ring all the way around. Put some on the threads too. This will help reduce the friction and get that seal to work. You shouldn't have leakage. Is your downpipe touching the floor of the base and keeping the O-ring from seating? If so you might want to trim it up a bit. In any case, keep in mind that some day you're going to want to get that base off and things you do now will greatly facilitate it.


Vaseline? I know Vaseline eats rubber like it's going out of style (depending on the rubber, of course). Perhaps a food safe silicone based grease would be better? I'll have to take it apart next weekend.


----------



## m00se

If you feel like spending $5 on a tube of plumber's grease go for it. The manufacturer recommends vaseline.


----------



## tylergvolk

I'm thinking about making one of the inline co2 reactors for my Ehiem 2213 on my 20L.

Anyone have any experience with this?

I'm concerned about flow reduction...


----------



## kevindiep83

Hi m00se,

I'll have a similar setup like the pictures you posted above. I already ordered the 20" clear filter and ready to place the order for the Mag 5. Btw, smart ideas to have it run separate. 
I know that you listed the parts on the previous page but the last two pieces wasn't cleared to me

( 1 x 5/8" T barb with male NPT, for the CO2 injection ) 

(1 matching female NPT to barb the size of your CO2 hose (3/16" is standard) This one might end up being brass, and that's ok ) - seemed like this is where you connected co2 line. But i thought the co2 connected to the Mag 5 white venturi tubing.

I'll have it hook up to a Mag Drive 5 with the Venturi. Is it possible that you can take a closer picture where the Mag Drive connections and the Co2 injection part?

Also do you think the Mag 5 - 500 flow rate is too much on my 48 gallon tank ? I think too much flow can push the co2 back to the tank.

thank you,


----------



## m00se

Hey Kevin,

Yes, that T and barb is for a set up on the output of a canister or other generic pump configuration. Lots of people will remove the red bleed valve on the top of the cap of the filter and thread the CO2 hose into that hole. If you do that you lose the ability to burp the air out of the filter unless you arrange a bleed valve on the CO2 line somewhere. If you get the Mag with the skimmer impeller it comes with an intake adapter with a nipple to connect your CO2 hose (it would be air for the skimmer if used as intended), so you don't need that T fitting or barb arrangement. Hope that's clearer than mud


----------



## kevindiep83

m00se said:


> Hey Kevin,
> 
> Yes, that T and barb is for a set up on the output of a canister or other generic pump configuration. Lots of people will remove the red bleed valve on the top of the cap of the filter and thread the CO2 hose into that hole. If you do that you lose the ability to burp the air out of the filter unless you arrange a bleed valve on the CO2 line somewhere. If you get the Mag with the skimmer impeller it comes with an intake adapter with a nipple to connect your CO2 hose (it would be air for the skimmer if used as intended), so you don't need that T fitting or barb arrangement. Hope that's clearer than mud


:thumbsup: thank you for clear this out. Now i just have to wait for the parts to arrive.


----------



## jeremy va

Hi,

I'm thinking about building one of these reactors but I can't get past one concern regarding the potential for a disastrous leak.

It seems to me that the weak link is the "T" where the co2 line joins the water line. The hoses can have clamp on them to lock them down -- so they are pretty safe. But the pics I see on this thread show the co2 line just slipped over the barb. I've also seen them entering the top of the GE unit through the hole where the bleed valve previously lived (as mentioned in moose's post above). So here's my concern: it seems to me that if the co2 line comes off the barb or out of that little hole at the to of the GE unit there will be water all over the place. Now, since there are a lot of people putting these reactors together and nobody is talking about disasters I've got a feeling I must be missing something. Are those little barb connections so snug fitting they are foolproof? Or is there a checkvalve of some kind that I'm missing? Any info appreciated. Thank you!


----------



## m00se

On my "T" I use a small 4" black cable tie (Lowes) like a hose clamp to secure it to the nipple. It's not necessary because it's pretty snug anyway and we're not talking pressure here, but the insurance keeps me from pacing at night. On the burp holes, you have to slice the airline (which is oversize) diagonally to a sharp tip (think of the tip of a hypodermic needle) so that you can grab it on the underside with a pair of pliers and pull it through that hole. It's very snug and almost stupid-proof. The airline sits 2-3" into the vessel so there's enough there for security.


HTH


----------



## jeremy va

Thank you for the explanation -- it makes sense. I've also been reading about needle wheel pumps -- adds another level of complication...


----------



## m00se

I bought the fractionating Mag pump and it made little difference (read: none) so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Your quest is to get the flow through the unit to be slow enough to give the CO2 time to dissolve before being pushed into the tank. I also use a pot scrubber on the end of the uptake pipe to capture bubbles before they enter it and into the aquarium. Post #483.


----------



## leros

My 20" reactor almost works. It breaks the bubbles up pretty well, but once they get small enough they're able to leave the reactor. Do you think that adding a pot scrubber would help? Alternatively, I've got about a gallon of bioballs laying around. Which is preferable?


----------



## watercage

My Cerges (connected to a 2217) has some microbubbles out the spray bar, but it really doesnt bother me considering my tank is bubbling all over the place.

Overall, Im very happy with mine.


----------



## m00se

Bioballs get gunked up. The scrubbers help mine.


----------



## leros

m00se said:


> Bioballs get gunked up. The scrubbers help mine.


I'll try scrubbers and report back. Do you find that one is sufficient?


----------



## m00se

I would go with 2 like the one in the above post.


----------



## sjb1987

Will 500gph be too much flow on a 20inch cerges?


----------



## jeremy va

Hi again,

OK, so I've scoured various threads and other sites and can't find a clear answer to another (rather obvious) question from a credible source. If you have a big old canister filter, why not feed the co2 into the inbound hose? Wouldn't the impeller and all the travel through the hoses and media etc. mix it up nicely with the water so when it comes out into the tank it is dispersed? I'm guessing one possible answer is that the co2 level in the filter might muck with the bacteria. Maybe there is something even more obvious. I read something about voiding warranties but that doesn't really pass the "so what?" test... Thanks for any answers!


----------



## hbosman

jeremy va said:


> Hi again,
> 
> OK, so I've scoured various threads and other sites and can't find a clear answer to another (rather obvious) question from a credible source. If you have a big old canister filter, why not feed the co2 into the inbound hose? Wouldn't the impeller and all the travel through the hoses and media etc. mix it up nicely with the water so when it comes out into the tank it is dispersed? I'm guessing one possible answer is that the co2 level in the filter might muck with the bacteria. Maybe there is something even more obvious. I read something about voiding warranties but that doesn't really pass the "so what?" test... Thanks for any answers!


Most people have or, will try it at some point. It will work as you would expect but, the CO2 will also accumulate into large bubbles inside the filter and then belch out the bubbles every once in awhile. It becomes annoying to see and makes you think you are wasting CO2. Maybe not the best solution but, will work until you put together a better solution.


----------



## m00se

Your intuition is correct. The thought is that the inbound CO2 acdifies the water and creates a less than an ideal environment for the bacteria. There is also the reality that the CO2 won't dissolve entirely and will create pockets in the filter, making noise and other problems, especially if your pump is in the top of the canister. There are plenty of people who do inject right into the canister and I'm sure have good results. I know I used to, and although the accumulated CO2 was an annoyance, beyond that I can't think of anyone or any "study" that concluded that it was a bad thing. Trouble with my setup is that I run an FX5 which moves about 5 gallons per minute real world, and not a lot of CO2 was getting dissolved before either making a bubble on the underside of the lid, or getting blasted into the tank due to pressure (both actually - the bubble would get big enough and the filter would shotgun it into the tank rather dramatically). That also meant that to get to desired levels of CO2 in the water, I wasted a lot of it. With the Cerges, I halved my bubble count and get better solution.

I have never heard of a warranty being denied for CO2 injection. I suppose it could happen but I would be really interested in hearing the manufacturer explain why 

sjb1987: 500 gph "real flow" would probably be way too much. I have a Mag 5 which is in that range and I have to throttle it back with a ball valve on the output side, even with the scrubbies in there. Trouble is that manufacturers LIE about their true flow rates so trying to figure out what will or won't work is daunting. I would go for more than you think you need and then design in a way to restrict flow to a useable rate either with a gate or ball valve of some kind. Also think about removing/cleaning these things a bit ahead of time. Priming them is a pain so putting valves/unions on the piping is going to make R and R a lot easier.


----------



## sjb1987

thanks for the response moose.... i have a cerges reactor on my 75 gal with a 750gph pump but i "y"ed off the pump so it probably only has about 300gph goin through it... im setting up a new 40b and will be using the cfs500 from aquatraders.com and they are rated for 500gph and push every bit of it too..i did not want to "y" off this setup due to lack of space.. ill do some playin around with my 75 and see if i can get close to around 500gph on the reactor side
thanks


----------



## jeremy va

Thank you for the responses. I'm thinking of a 70 gallon and will probably put an FX7 or comparable on it. Clearly, I need to avoid running the co2 into the filter. BTW, you are correct regarding the fabricated throughput numbers: I recently saw this referenced in the small print in a mfg's literature -- they said the throughput was measured without any media or trays in the filter and with no tubing. Nice touch! The only good news is they probably all do it so you have an apples to apples situation when comparing filters. Thank you all again.


----------



## m00se

I don't know if you've checked out some of the mods people do to the CFS500, but they're pretty interesting. I have one as a backup. Used it for about a year before I upgraded to the FX5 which is like it's big brother. The CFS500 doesn't have any media baskets in it so modding it made sense. Check out the thread(s) by CWO4GUNNER here and on APC. Informative. Be aware that they've updated their lids and improved the filter as time went on so that the problems people were complaining about early in these threads were more or less all addressed. I bought mine off of TopDogSellers on e-bay. They were quick to make me happy when I had issues (I broke the down-tube on my first one - not the filter's fault. I was being a derpy derp).



http://goo.gl/joDM4

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123496#post1235512

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=117191


----------



## sjb1987

Wow.. Never seen these...thanks... I have one cfs500 already.. Plan on buying another one for the future tank..will likely be doing some of these mods


----------



## leros

I tried adding the 2 scrubbers and it didn't really help. The small microbubbles get sucked right through. 

Even when I turn the flow down low enough that the large bubbles only make it a few inches down the housing, the microbubbles still make it all the way to the bottom. I'm surprised I'm having this problem with the 20" housing. I must have been getting down to 200gph or so. 

Any other suggestions? I'm about to give up and use a separate small pump to drive the reactor, which is disappointing since I would never have built a 20" Cerges if I knew was going to have to run a separate pump for it anyway.


----------



## m00se

I'm not sure how to answer you. The point of a CO2 reactor is to get CO2 into the water. It's not a filter. GPH shouldn't even be factored here, within reason. If it takes 80 or 100 GPH or less and dissolves the desired amount of CO2 into the water, what's the problem? Circulating that water is the job of the main filter, and whatever else you have in the tank to facilitate movement.


----------



## leros

I was trying to minimize equipment and also minimize the amount of stuff in my tank. I had read that people were using 20 inch Cerges with larger flows than I planned for so I thought it would work. 

Having to run it on a separate line isn't killer but its less than desirable.


----------



## m00se

Gotcha, yea...I have it on a separate loop going into the tank with it's own spray bar..


----------



## watercage

Here's a pic of mine

GE housing from Home Depot


----------



## kevindiep83

Got mine built with the 20" Housing.

First i went with the Mag 5 for the easy setup, but ending up don't like the noise from the pump. So i switched to QuietOne pump (a little more $$$ but it's definitely stop the noise but of course the durability might not be comparable to the Mag 5). Also i went ahead and put in two value at the intake, return hose for easy access if need services the filter.

Thanks for the help m00se n write up.


----------



## leros

I have a Mag 9.5 and a Quiet One 4000. They're about the same GPH. The Quiet One is much louder than that Mag.


----------



## m00se

I had a Quiet One 1200. They use rubber O-rings on the intake and output barbs. They leaked from day one. It sounded like an old truck running. Luckily I only paid $20 I think. It was a clearance item at Petsmart. Not that the Supreme is silent. It rattles a bit too. Just quieter than the Quiet One LOL...oh, and it doesn't leak (yet). I'm looking at those screws that hold the impeller cover on and thinking "what were THEY thinking when they used these sheet metal screws screwed directly into the plastic motor housing, and how many times can I get away with cleaning this thing before these holes are stripped"....

Jus sayin..


----------



## kevindiep83

Leros, 
Yeah ? i thought Mag 9.5 would be loud so i didn't order plus it's little more $$ too. I got the QuietOne 4000 on amazon. I replaced the Mag 5 which reduced a lot noise so i am much happier. I'll give a try on the Mag 9.5 if this QuietOne break down. 

M00se,
Yea they come with the rubber O-rings on both end, but i am ending up didn't use them. So far, my setup didn't have any leaks yet :hihi: 
I think they designed the QO 4000 little different than the 1200, maybe? i haven't fully open the pump yet but i don't recall seeing any screws. Well it's a super deal on the $12 pump, :biggrin: you can't ask for more. Oh yea, i got the intake and return line reduced down to 1/2" to fit my eheim installation set 1-2.

This reactor is awesome, plus when coming to kill BBA. i'll just have to turn off the main filter and let this guy push the water.roud:

My PH is at 6.4 now.


----------



## m00se

Good to hear. Yea the Mag 9 would be a little (lot) big for this reactor. Going in I thought I'd need to move a LOT more water than I ended up needing. In retrospect I think I could have gotten away with a Maxi Jet 1200. As it is I have the Mag throttled way back to keep bubbles out of the aquarium. My drop checker is lemon yellow. 

Cheers


----------



## kevindiep83

Yea Mag are strong (plus your FX5 that's a lot), somehow i felt like the Mag 5 have the same push as the new Quiet One 4000 but i know the GPH is not.


----------



## sketch804

Is anyone here using these on larger tanks like 155gal or so? And would it be better to run this one on a separate line for a large tank or inline with a good canister filter?? Trying to weigh my options on a large tank I am about to start. Thanks!


----------



## m00se

I can only try to give you my experience with the 20" tall unit on a 40b. I run a Mag 7 through it with 3/4" lines, and have it choked back to probably half flow with a ball valve. I put a scrubby in the filter body to reduce the tiny bubbles in the tank, and I have the output going to a spray bar on the opposite side of the tank from the main filter intake, where I also monitor pH with a drop checker. On a 150g tank I would think it could work but I would definitely recommend that you NOT put it on your filter returns. That makes it difficult to control the flow through the unit and restricts your options accordingly. You might want to consider a sump for a tank that big. That would cut down or eliminate the Seven-Up bubbles in the tank issue. You would seal off the sump in a way that doesn't allow the CO2 to escape. If I'm not mistaken I think that's how Tom Barr does it (plantbrain).

Good luck!


----------



## Kathyy

I have a 20" long Cerge's with a Rio 2500HP running wide open in the sump [Rios come with handy dandy ball valves and it is on the pump] of my 6' long 180 gallon tank. The output comes up through the overflow box and ends with a loc line return with no nozzle on it that complements the output from the Laguna Max Flo 1500 pump. I see a few very small bubbles in the tank that might be from the reactor but not enough to be noticeable even looking through the long end of the tank. 

It takes 10-15 minutes for the last of the gas to be dissolved after it turns off in the evening. Wouldn't choking back the pump just allow more gas to build up in the device as there is less tumbling of the gas bubbles?

I don't know if CO2 is circulating efficiently or not but the drop checkers are currently parked high and low on the end of the tank with the returns pointed away from them and overflow box and they do get yellow green. Not sure when they get yellow green though.

If you look through my current journal you can see photos of the sump set up and usually I post a photo of what the tank looks like from the end.


----------



## m00se

Kathyy said:


> It takes 10-15 minutes for the last of the gas to be dissolved after it turns off in the evening. Wouldn't choking back the pump just allow more gas to build up in the device as there is less tumbling of the gas bubbles?



Yes, it has to be balanced via the bubble count. It seems about 4 BPS is the sweet spot fizz vs. CO2 buildup on my system. I get canary yellow in the DC.


----------



## discgo

After reading this thread i picked up a dupont whole house filter with a bypass switch and a see through housing on sale at menards for $25. I plan on using it on a 20g long diy project i am planning. My goal is to use it with diy co2 to get started and upgrade to pressurized as i go. I dont have a canister filter yet and i am curious if i can just put a mag2 pump on this reactor and some filter pad material in it and make a combo filter/reactor out of it? I plan on heavily planting the tank so my thinking is that it would provide enough filtration and water movement for the dozen tetras i am wanting to keep in there.


----------



## m00se

No reason why you couldn't. Just please pay attention to my admonishment regarding vaseline on the seals and cover threads. If you don't do that you're gonna have a hard time. Keep us posted!

*Oh and MAKE SURE you have a WORKING check valve on a setup like that!*


----------



## sketch804

m00se said:


> I can only try to give you my experience with the 20" tall unit on a 40b. I run a Mag 7 through it with 3/4" lines, and have it choked back to probably half flow with a ball valve. I put a scrubby in the filter body to reduce the tiny bubbles in the tank, and I have the output going to a spray bar on the opposite side of the tank from the main filter intake, where I also monitor pH with a drop checker. On a 150g tank I would think it could work but I would definitely recommend that you NOT put it on your filter returns. That makes it difficult to control the flow through the unit and restricts your options accordingly. You might want to consider a sump for a tank that big. That would cut down or eliminate the Seven-Up bubbles in the tank issue. You would seal off the sump in a way that doesn't allow the CO2 to escape. If I'm not mistaken I think that's how Tom Barr does it (plantbrain).
> 
> Good luck!


Yes, thanks much, I was leaning more towards that one and hook a mag 5-12 to a separate line.I have tried to use a sump system and CO2, sealing off the sump and feeding it up the return line (like I have seen done many times) but I cannot get an efficient system on a sump system, I have tried and failed. It takes too long to achieve decent CO2 levels, lots of bubbles regardless if I use a glass diffuser or open line, and CO2 waste is at a high level to justify using that way. So I am just thinking of running a canister filter or two for a 150+ gal tank I will be doing soon, and just run a separate line.




Kathyy said:


> I have a 20" long Cerge's with a Rio 2500HP running wide open in the sump [Rios come with handy dandy ball valves and it is on the pump] of my 6' long 180 gallon tank. The output comes up through the overflow box and ends with a loc line return with no nozzle on it that complements the output from the Laguna Max Flo 1500 pump. I see a few very small bubbles in the tank that might be from the reactor but not enough to be noticeable even looking through the long end of the tank.
> 
> It takes 10-15 minutes for the last of the gas to be dissolved after it turns off in the evening. Wouldn't choking back the pump just allow more gas to build up in the device as there is less tumbling of the gas bubbles?
> 
> I don't know if CO2 is circulating efficiently or not but the drop checkers are currently parked high and low on the end of the tank with the returns pointed away from them and overflow box and they do get yellow green. Not sure when they get yellow green though.
> 
> If you look through my current journal you can see photos of the sump set up and usually I post a photo of what the tank looks like from the end.


Thanks for the info, I tried using a reactor (in a sump system) with a little maxi jet before with little luck, so maybe it just needed more flow from a better pump. I will check the pix, I always like checking out sump systems in use with CO2 since I cannot get it to work right. But I tell ya I see pix of your tank and it looks great, but I dont see any pix of the actual sump.


----------



## discgo

I saw the bit about the vaseline and a check valve will be included. I will be doing a build thread with this tank soon and it will be my first planted tank even though i have been keeping fish my whole life. My goal is to do as much diy as i can starting with a custom cfl light hood and upgrade plans for a custom led/heater as i learn more about wiring them up. 

If the 20 long tinker project works well i will be redoing a 46g bowfront as well. It is in the living room and my wife is picky so any diy there will have to be refined.


----------



## m00se

You know I don't think anyone has yet to invent a *great* system to get CO2 dissolved. You could even add another whole house filter with the scrubbies and downpipe that would give additional dwell time to the CO2 that way. There really is no hard fast rule. I wish I could recall who it was that was experimenting with a recirculating system that recycled the water through a CO2 chamber more than once. It got some interest but then it sort-of fell off the radar and I really wonder what happened to that. The system looked a lot more complex than the stuff we're playing with here. It was pretty slick (practical? I dunno). Suffice it to say that each aquarium is different and each system has to be designed and tweaked to that particular tank. Sometimes it's seems easier to cram a boilerplate concept into an answer to a challenge and forget that the overall goal is a healthy ecosystem that might require more creativity and of course, money 

Have you ever checked out the carbonator from a soda fountain? LOL - I have!


----------



## jeremy va

OK, so I’ve done some more research, re-read the threads and I have another question:

On the basic set up, water exits tank, runs through the filter, gets injected with C02 either immediately before entering the reactor or Co2 is fed into the reactor through a hole in the top. Water and Co2 mix in the reactor and are then returned to the tank.

Some people have problems with this system in that bubbles still appear. This seems to happen when the gph volume is over +/- 150gph but there seem to be other reasons too.

Why not put an “inline” diffuser (Eg: Atomic) before the reactor?

One benefit to this is that the diffuser arrives as a kit (eg: ready to install on 16/22mm pipe if use Eheimand (I think) two other sizes) and it is probably easier to put it inline than it is to find the parts and make up a “T” that fits. 

Wouldn’t this make the reactor even more effective at eliminating visible bubbles?


----------



## m00se

There are a lot of different ways that people have introduced the CO2 to the reactor. Including the ceramic diffusers. One thing off the top of my head that makes me think they'd be less than ideal is that they like to clog, meaning more maintenance. I personally started out using a Mag pump with a fractionating impeller for a skimmer thinking it would break up the CO2 bubbles before they got to the reaction chamber. I then changed out that impeller with the normal pressure impeller and didn't see any difference in efficiency as far as bubble leakage into the tank. I'm not saying that some form of turbulence before the chamber is irrelevant, just that my and others experience have not seen it proven out in use. There is a lot of turbulence at the tip of the CO2 line at the point of injection.


----------



## discgo

I think smaller bubbles are more likely to be pulled through the reactor. The larger the bubble the faster it floats up and resists getting pulled through.


----------



## jeremy va

Ok guys, thank you. "Proven in use" is always best. I'm constantly amazed by people's ability to speculate (including my own)!

What about a "rule of thumb" that says the cerges works best with a flow of "fill in the blank" GPH? From what I can see a relatively low flows best: 150gph -- and that is in synch with what disgo says above and what has been said elsewhere on the thread. The exception seems to be when a 20" filter case is used when it looks like a higher flow may work. What do you say?


----------



## m00se

My experience has been that it's easy to overwhelm the reactor. I started out thinking a high volume pump would process more water therefore giving me a lower bubble count and saving me $ on CO2. That hasn't proven out in reality. The fact in my case is that there's a sweet spot for these things and if you exceed it you're going to get bubbles in the tank. That sweet spot for me is about 100-120 gph. This is a 40b with a Fluval FX5 as the main filter. Lots of water movement, albeit diffused through 30" of spraybar, so there's no water in the tank that's sitting still. I'm pushing about 4-5 bps through the reactor giving me a full pH stop of saturation, making the drop checker lemon yellow by lights-out.


----------



## jeremy va

Mr. Moose, your Fx5 is not inline with the cerges though, right?


----------



## m00se

Negatory. Separate system. Both use spraybars.


----------



## jeremy va

Mr. Moose, please re-read my post -- I think we are talking past each other -). You have filtration (Fx5) and then you ALSO have a pump/reactor for the co2.


----------



## m00se

m00se said:


> Negatory. Separate system. Both use spraybars.



Negatory: No, the FX5 is separate from the CO2 loop.

Separate system: Separate means not together. Alone. Discreet.

Both: Means 2...

I assume you've read through the thread and seen several pix of my set up by now. I use a Supreme Mag pump for the reactor.


----------



## jeremy va

Yup, exactly. We agree.


----------



## puopg

I just made one of these. I also modified the OG design by adding a T to eliminate the need for a drill. HOLY CRAP does this thing blows my ceramic disk outta the park. I am getting pretty much 100% dissolution since i see no bubbles in the tank anymore and I am still trying to dial my CO2 back since my fish are all gasping! . But still, . Great Design!


----------



## puopg

Actually, so i get soem gas buildup at the end of the day. I purged the system before i went to sleep and this morning i noticed there was still some buildup of gas (no i dont run co2 at night). I am thinking since i use a TOM's surface skimmer, it must be drawing in air which gets trapped due to its low solubility in water. Any ideas what i can do to alleviate this? Thanks!


----------



## m00se

I'm guessing that you have the reactor somewhere in line with a canister? Hard to know where to give pointers with so little info. Unless you have severe problems with leaf litter or other floating debris I don't see the benefit of a surface skimmer, personally. I was looking to go that way when I began battling surface film, but I tried air stones on a timer for 30 minutes during lights-off period, and the scum went away. Stuck with that since, and never went to the trouble of building a skimmer (the ones being sold by the various companies are way too small for true 600 GPH canisters).


----------



## puopg

m00se said:


> I'm guessing that you have the reactor somewhere in line with a canister? Hard to know where to give pointers with so little info. Unless you have severe problems with leaf litter or other floating debris I don't see the benefit of a surface skimmer, personally. I was looking to go that way when I began battling surface film, but I tried air stones on a timer for 30 minutes during lights-off period, and the scum went away. Stuck with that since, and never went to the trouble of building a skimmer (the ones being sold by the various companies are way to small for true 600 GPH canisters).


Yes, it is inline after the canisters output. I wonder if its a matter of adjusting the skimmer. I use the skimmer primarily to increase oxygenation.


----------



## m00se

Well if it's coming out of your canister, it's getting into it, too....so I would probably try to figure out the flow rates and adjust to eliminate any air. I would be more concerned with air in the canister than I would the reactor, aside from the noise anyway.


----------



## puopg

m00se said:


> Well if it's coming out of your canister, it's getting into it, too....so I would probably try to figure out the flow rates and adjust to eliminate any air. I would be more concerned with air in the canister than I would the reactor, aside from the noise anyway.


Alright i will adjust the flow of the surface skimmer and hope i can find that sweet spot. Thanks!


----------



## don.dagg

OK guys I have a quick question. Has anyone tried to add an extra line into the reactors to input air? My co2 will be on a timer for the solenoid to turn it off at night, but how about adding the air pump line on a timer to turn on at night? If I can inject co2 why can't I inject o2 and eliminate one more hose feeding into the tank? Do you think this will work? Any opinions or other ideas? Thanx


----------



## leros

Seems like you could do that with a T-connector and 2 check valves. 

Air pump -> check valve -> left side of T-connector
CO2 -> check-valve -> right side of T-connector
output of T-connector -> reactor

My only concern is that your reactor probably wouldn't be able to handle the high output from the air pump.


----------



## puopg

don.dagg said:


> OK guys I have a quick question. Has anyone tried to add an extra line into the reactors to input air? My co2 will be on a timer for the solenoid to turn it off at night, but how about adding the air pump line on a timer to turn on at night? If I can inject co2 why can't I inject o2 and eliminate one more hose feeding into the tank? Do you think this will work? Any opinions or other ideas? Thanx


Since O2 does not easily dissolve into water, i would imagine you might get a ton of gas buildup in the reactor. Otherwise, seems fine.


----------



## m00se

puopg said:


> Since O2 does not easily dissolve into water, i would imagine you might get a ton of gas buildup in the reactor. Otherwise, seems fine.


+1 on build up.


----------



## don.dagg

Yea Air pump is a lot more flow. How about just T it in after the reactor to blow out the spray bar? Has anyone tried this yet?


----------



## BraveBuc

don.dagg said:


> OK guys I have a quick question. Has anyone tried to add an extra line into the reactors to input air? My co2 will be on a timer for the solenoid to turn it off at night, but how about adding the air pump line on a timer to turn on at night? If I can inject co2 why can't I inject o2 and eliminate one more hose feeding into the tank? Do you think this will work? Any opinions or other ideas? Thanx


I've done it. I need to play with it more. I tried using a T with check valves but my check valve was leaking a little co2 out to the air pump so I've been waiting to try different check valves. I did get all kinds of false pearling like I have never seen before the two mornings I tried it manually so it seems like it does do something.

The reactor fills up very quickly with my larger air pump. I have a smaller one with a controllable flow rate but that doesn't have enough power to push the air against the pressure of the water loop. I just ran the big pump until the filter housing was almost full and turned it off. Then it just gurgled away and was almost empty before lights on. I'm thinking about putting the big air pump on a timer for say 15 min every night.

This is with the 20"/1" whole house water filter. The fatter one.


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

I made one of these about a week ago when my danner mag pump went out. It is working fine! I have it inline with one of my XP3's. I get a little bubble mist into the tank but the plants have perked back up so I know it is working. The bubble mist is nothing compared to the needle wheel mag pump, that thing would have the tank in a CO2 cloud


----------



## watercage

I dont get what the big deal about some small microbubbles is...

A few hours into the light cycle, my whole tank is pearling and bubbling...


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

watercage said:


> I dont get what the big deal about some small microbubbles is...
> 
> A few hours into the light cycle, my whole tank is pearling and bubbling...


Agreed


----------



## marcnc

First time trying to setup Cerges' Reactor.

I have Reactor all built and ready to go, few questions I have.


Setting up on 90 Gallon Tank
Canister is Rena Filstar XL
Flow-rate: 450 U.S. GAL/h
Waterflow with filtration media and accessories: 190 U.S. GAL/h

Will the canister have enough flow to use the reactor?

Should my in-line heater go right after the canister, then to the reactor or should it go after the reactor? Or does it not matter?

My CO2 regulartor has a bubble counter on it, from what I read I can remove that since my reactor housing is clear?

Thanks


----------



## farrenator

marcnc said:


> Will the canister have enough flow to use the reactor?
> 
> Should my in-line heater go right after the canister, then to the reactor or should it go after the reactor? Or does it not matter?
> 
> My CO2 regulartor has a bubble counter on it, from what I read I can remove that since my reactor housing is clear?
> 
> Thanks


Not sure about #1. Try and see. It will probably work.

Try it with the heater before the reactor - this will slow down flow (maybe) and allow more time for the CO2 to dissolve in the water moving through the reactor. I suppose this would only be a problem if you were blowing bubbles through the return wand.

Yes, you can remove the bubble counter. I have a clear reactor housing w/ no bubble counter. In my opinion, one less piece of equipment means one less thing to break. Make sure you still use a one way valve for the CO2 line though.


----------



## puopg

marcnc said:


> First time trying to setup Cerges' Reactor.
> 
> I have Reactor all built and ready to go, few questions I have.
> 
> 
> Setting up on 90 Gallon Tank
> Canister is Rena Filstar XL
> Flow-rate: 450 U.S. GAL/h
> Waterflow with filtration media and accessories: 190 U.S. GAL/h
> 
> Will the canister have enough flow to use the reactor?
> 
> Should my in-line heater go right after the canister, then to the reactor or should it go after the reactor? Or does it not matter?
> 
> My CO2 regulartor has a bubble counter on it, from what I read I can remove that since my reactor housing is clear?
> 
> Thanks


I use it with my eheim 2213. works fine.


----------



## marcnc

Anyone know good source for whole house clear canister filter, that does not cost a ton. I found one at lowes today, but it was 60 bucks.


----------



## creekbottom

Home Depot up here was $40.


----------



## m00se

http://www.discountfilterstore.com/...pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html?fquery=


----------



## marcnc

m00se said:


> http://www.discountfilterstore.com/...pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html?fquery=


 
Thank you for the link, not sure if I will have enough room for that, would this one work?

http://www.discountfilterstore.com/....html?fquery=clear+whole+house+filter+housing


----------



## m00se

Sure. That's the size the originals were made with.


----------



## latchdan

I just finished making mine, and lets just say it was a NIGHTMARE. Everything possible went wrong for me. I had leaks everywhere I ended up taking it apart 3 different times. Also this reactor is WAY more expensive then the R.G style I spent around 20 or so on it and I believe im over 60 on this Cerge reactor. Mainly because I could only find 3/4 to 5/8 brass barbed connectors. Yeah it looks nicer but I'm not sure if it was worth the head ache.

I ended up gluing some parts. Right now I have the co2 turned up more then it was with RG style reactor and getting a darker green drop checker... Kinda frustrating. I was thinking of taking pictures but forgot in my rush to instal it, then after fighting leaks it slipped my mind again. 

I followed the design of page 10 using the same housing on page 1 but with a clear bottom.


----------



## inkslinger

latchdan said:


> I just finished making mine, and lets just say it was a NIGHTMARE. Everything possible went wrong for me. I had leaks everywhere I ended up taking it apart 3 different times. Also this reactor is WAY more expensive then the R.G style I spent around 20 or so on it and I believe im over 60 on this Cerge reactor. Mainly because I could only find 3/4 to 5/8 brass barbed connectors. Yeah it looks nicer but I'm not sure if it was worth the head ache.
> 
> I ended up gluing some parts. Right now I have the co2 turned up more then it was with RG style reactor and getting a darker green drop checker... Kinda frustrating. I was thinking of taking pictures but forgot in my rush to instal it, then after fighting leaks it slipped my mind again.
> 
> I followed the design of page 10 using the same housing on page 1 but with a clear bottom.


I got my 3/4 to 5/8 from Tractor Supply Store they come in nylon and work great for me no leaks just add some pipe dope .


----------



## inkslinger

marcnc said:


> Anyone know good source for whole house clear canister filter, that does not cost a ton. I found one at lowes today, but it was 60 bucks.


I bought a 20"x4.5" Big Blue for $69. I use it for a 110g tank with Eheim 2262 filter


----------



## latchdan

inkslinger said:


> I got my 3/4 to 5/8 from Tractor Supply Store they come in nylon and work great for me no leaks just add some pipe dope .


I tried OSH, Home Depot, Lowes and a Irrigation store no one has them in anything but brass, not sure if there is a tractor supply store near me. There is a farm supply...


----------



## cobra

Hey Guys,

Just want to put added emphasis on these darn discountfilter filters and how damn fragile they are. When posters say not to over tighten that's an understatement. I tightened mine less than one revolution past finger tight and the housing still cracked! It's odd because the plastic (acrylic) is beefy where the threads are located. 

When I was doing the salt water thing I would have to tighten the filter housings (RO/DI unit) substantially more than these pentek (sp) filters after changing a DI filter out.

Use caution! I wouldn't tighten much past 1/2 revolution after finger tight (seriously).

Hope this helps...

G


----------



## latchdan

cobra said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Just want to put added emphasis on these darn discountfilter filters and how damn fragile they are. When posters say not to over tighten that's an understatement. I tightened mine less than one revolution past finger tight and the housing still cracked! It's odd because the plastic (acrylic) is beefy where the threads are located.
> 
> When I was doing the salt water thing I would have to tighten the filter housings (RO/DI unit) substantially more than these pentek (sp) filters after changing a DI filter out.
> 
> Use caution! I wouldn't tighten much past 1/2 revolution after finger tight (seriously).
> 
> G


Are you talking about the actual housing or the 3/4 inch inlet/outlet. I just did the housing hand tight, and it was the only connection that didn't leak haha. Everything else I tightened as tight as I could get it with channel locks. I was first scared to strip the threads so I didn't tighten them as hard as I could. I wish I did because it got leaks in several spots and had to retighten them. 

I wanted to give an update, I turned my co2 up more and now got a yellow drop checker, I reduced co2 slightly and increased surface agitation but today the drop checker is still yellow, fish arn't gasping so I'm rollen with it. I hope it helps my algae problems.

Hope this helps...


----------



## CAcrimson

Newb here. I've read through every post in this thread and really appreciate all the info.

Would anyone with knowledge of the Cerges design, please confirm that I have the concept correct? Please see the attachment.

I will be using this on a 65 gal sump system. The return pump is an Eheim 1260 and I will be using the 20" housing. The CO2 will be coming from a Milwaukee MA957.

I just want to get some confirmation that I have the idea correct before I go ahead. Is there a more efficient way to get the CO2 into the inflow or will the 3/4"-to-airline barbed tee I have in the schematic work fine to keep it simple?

Thank you!!!


----------



## m00se

cobra said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Just want to put added emphasis on these darn discountfilter filters and how damn fragile they are. When posters say not to over tighten that's an understatement. I tightened mine less than one revolution past finger tight and the housing still cracked! It's odd because the plastic (acrylic) is beefy where the threads are located.
> 
> When I was doing the salt water thing I would have to tighten the filter housings (RO/DI unit) substantially more than these pentek (sp) filters after changing a DI filter out.
> 
> Use caution! I wouldn't tighten much past 1/2 revolution after finger tight (seriously).
> 
> Hope this helps...
> 
> G


As has been repeated here at least twice and elsewhere, DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN THE TOP OF THESE FILTERS. Use vaseline on the seal AND the threads. You should only have to hand tighten it. Period. There should be no leaks at this point. If you reef on it you're going to have a bad time. Not only are you likely to crack the housing but TAKING IT APART WILL BE NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE, even with a wrench. This is a known issue with the acrylic filters and a half hearted effort scanning the plumbing DIY forums will have you a believer.... Sorry for your accident cobra. Discountfilters will probably replace it though. 

Always use teflon tape on the threads of the barbs. This is what it's made for. They shouldn't leak. Remember guys, these filters are designed to work at 50-80 psi on household water systems. Leaks are not acceptable. 

Cheers


----------



## m00se

CAcrimson said:


> Newb here. I've read through every post in this thread and really appreciate all the info.
> 
> Would anyone with knowledge of the Cerges design, please confirm that I have the concept correct? Please see the attachment.
> 
> I will be using this on a 65 gal sump system. The return pump is an Eheim 1260 and I will be using the 20" housing. The CO2 will be coming from a Milwaukee MA957.
> 
> I just want to get some confirmation that I have the idea correct before I go ahead. Is there a more efficient way to get the CO2 into the inflow or will the 3/4"-to-airline barbed tee I have in the schematic work fine to keep it simple?
> 
> Thank you!!!


Looks good to me!


----------



## CAcrimson

Thanks m00se!!! I am going to upload pics of my setup once I get it together!


----------



## CAcrimson

Has anyone tried using the Bulk Reef Supply's 20" Reverse Osmosis Canister with 3⁄4” Ports?

They are black and grey and a pretty good deal (especially if using discounts)!

I am curious if the internal cap design is the same as the discountfilterstore.com versions previous members have used?

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reverse-osmosis-canisters.html


----------



## inkslinger

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165975&highlight=ext5000
I got the 1" ports and use the tee before the reactor it work out great with my eheim 2262 filter



CAcrimson said:


> Newb here. I've read through every post in this thread and really appreciate all the info.
> 
> Would anyone with knowledge of the Cerges design, please confirm that I have the concept correct? Please see the attachment.
> 
> I will be using this on a 65 gal sump system. The return pump is an Eheim 1260 and I will be using the 20" housing. The CO2 will be coming from a Milwaukee MA957.
> 
> I just want to get some confirmation that I have the idea correct before I go ahead. Is there a more efficient way to get the CO2 into the inflow or will the 3/4"-to-airline barbed tee I have in the schematic work fine to keep it simple?
> 
> Thank you!!!


----------



## inkslinger

CAcrimson said:


> Has anyone tried using the Bulk Reef Supply's 20" Reverse Osmosis Canister with 3⁄4” Ports?
> 
> They are black and grey and a pretty good deal (especially if using discounts)!
> 
> I am curious if the internal cap design is the same as the discountfilterstore.com versions previous members have used?
> 
> http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reverse-osmosis-canisters.html


paid $69. for the big blue 20"x4" with 1" port else where.
http://www.h2odistributors.com/ytb-20-cb1-pr.asp


----------



## CAcrimson

Update: I took a chance and bought the Bulk Reef Supply 20" housing with 3/4" ports. Worked out beautifully. It is nice and black to match all of my other plumbing. It is so strong, I can't imagine it breaking. It has the same tough-as-nails construction as their regular 10" housings. (I know some people mentioned others from different retailers are a little fragile...not this one.)

Here's what I bought:
Bulk Reef Supply: SKU: 200100 20" Reverse Osmosis Canister 3⁄4” Ports $39.99 
Home Depot: SKU 811000012753 3/4INX2FT PVC PIPE $1.24 (Schedule 40)

I first tried the boiling water method to enlarge the PVC pipe to fit on the male portion in the RO housing cap. That didn't work too well. I ended up just holding the PVC over the gas stove flame and turning it for about 20-30 seconds to evenly heat it. It slid over the male part on the RO housing like butter. I used my PVC cutters to cut off about 6 inches of the end of the PVC pipe. The hardest and most time consuming part was reheating the PVC and straightening the pipe over the male part on the housing to get the pipe straight in the housing. All in all, about 10 minutes.

I plan to take a little Krylon Fusion gloss black and paint the white PVC pipe to match the housing.

Thanks to everyone for their help and tips. This is a great thread. I will update the performance once I flood my tank in about 3-4 weeks.


----------



## m00se

Lookin good yea! Hey, I know that you believe that housing is beefier than the whole house filters that we've been warning about but....it's not. All these filters have substantial mass where they give the appearance of sturdiness. Don't be deceived though. That filter you have looks like a standard housing just like the rest of them and whether it breaks or not is to be determined. I would still highly recommend you use the advice of greasing the threads up copiously and taking care not to overtighten the cap.

Good luck and best wishes on your new set up - I know how exciting it is!


----------



## cobra

m00se said:


> Lookin good yea! Hey, I know that you believe that housing is beefier than the whole house filters that we've been warning about but....it's not. All these filters have substantial mass where they give the appearance of sturdiness. Don't be deceived though. That filter you have looks like a standard housing just like the rest of them and whether it breaks or not is to be determined. I would still highly recommend you use the advice of greasing the threads up copiously and taking care not to overtighten the cap.
> 
> Good luck and best wishes on your new set up - I know how exciting it is!


What Moose said.


----------



## pianofish

I'm thinking about making one of these to use on my eheim 2217, I'm using it throttled down on a smaller tank and am hoping that until I'm ready to do co2, I could just throw some bio balls into it to add extra filtration? Thoughts? Will this in conjunction with a hydor inline be too much for a 2217 to handle along with steel lily pipes?


----------



## Silock

I made one myself and have had it running for a good two months now. It used to be silent, but now it sounds like there's running water inside it. That can't be good, but it's not leaking and pressure coming out of the spray bar is normal. 

Should I be concerned?


----------



## Silock

Silock said:


> I made one myself and have had it running for a good two months now. It used to be silent, but now it sounds like there's running water inside it. That can't be good, but it's not leaking and pressure coming out of the spray bar is normal.
> 
> Should I be concerned?


Never mind. Figured it out. My housing has a pressure relief valve, so I just pushed it with the filter on. Lots of trapped air came out, so I just kept holding until it was just water. I guess the air got in from the surface skimmer.


----------



## marcnc

So now that I have my reactor built. I am thinking I want to setup with 2nd canister or external pump, is that an option? I want to do what going to be the least amount of money.

I was thinking if I got external pump, I could also run my UV, and inline heater on it as well, but I have no idea what size pump to get for the reactor and how do I go about getting the fittings for it to drain and return to the tank? Would I just be better to buy small Filstar XP S? Maybe that would not be enough.

Thanks so much.


----------



## m00se

I use a Mag Supreme 5 pump on a closed loop system and I like it a lot. I gave it it's own spraybar independent of the main spraybar for the canister. So yea, that's a good idea. I think the Mag 5 would be more than enough for $65. Just put a prefilter on the intake and you should be good. I have to throttle mine back or it'll blow bubbles into the tank. With the additional resistance of the UV and the heater you should be about ideal.


----------



## marcnc

m00se said:


> I use a Mag Supreme 5 pump on a closed loop system and I like it a lot. I gave it it's own spraybar independent of the main spraybar for the canister. So yea, that's a good idea. I think the Mag 5 would be more than enough for $65. Just put a prefilter on the intake and you should be good. I have to throttle mine back or it'll blow bubbles into the tank. With the additional resistance of the UV and the heater you should be about ideal.


Thanks for the reply, I think I will go with the Mag 5. Any suggestions how I would plumb it? Assume I could just chain all 3 devices in a row?

Spray bar, I have read online how to make them, so that should not be much to deal with, what I am not sure of is the intake and prefilter you talk about?

Thanks


----------



## shrimpNewbie

Make sure you put the pump before the reactor to avoid any bubbles messin with the impeller otherwise you're gold, run uv and heater after reactor or before pump btw


----------



## leros

I posted a while back about having trouble with my 20" Cerges reactor. I was having trouble with bubbles coming out even with a very low amount of flow. I tried putting in a sponge at the bottom, but that did not help. 

People told me it was a bad idea, but I filled the canister with bioballs. Now I'm able to pump as much CO2 in the reactor as I want and I can run the flow at ridiculous speeds. It's quite a wonderful thing


----------



## AlanLe

Anyone has One of these for sale? Shoot me a pm.


----------



## RedDelPaPa

Hey guys. I've been following this thread for a while now. Seems to me people are having the same problems with the 20" units that they're having with the smaller more manageable 10" units. And that is noise and micro bubbles escaping the filter housing. So here is my solution, and a very simple one in that. It requires no filter sponge at the bottom of the reactor which WILL clog and WILL eventually require maintenance. Control your flow rate through the reactor with a built in bypass line using a simple two little fishes ball valve that connects from your pump outlet, to the outflow line of the co2 reactor. Fire up the system and let come up to operating equilibrium. If you have micro bubbles exiting the reactor, simply crack your bypass valve until the micro bubble discharge stops. Problem solved. No need for a huge bulky 20" unit with internal sponges and other BS, less noise, and your pump is allowed to run at full capacity. Good luck.


----------



## AlanLe

Do ou need to use some sort of glue to glue the pipe inside the canister?


----------



## AlanLe

RedDelPaPa said:


> Hey guys. I've been following this thread for a while now. Seems to me people are having the same problems with the 20" units that they're having with the smaller more manageable 10" units. And that is noise and micro bubbles escaping the filter housing. So here is my solution, and a very simple one in that. It requires no filter sponge at the bottom of the reactor which WILL clog and WILL eventually require maintenance. Control your flow rate through the reactor with a built in bypass line using a simple two little fishes ball valve that connects from your pump outlet, to the outflow line of the co2 reactor. Fire up the system and let come up to operating equilibrium. If you have micro bubbles exiting the reactor, simply crack your bypass valve until the micro bubble discharge stops. Problem solved. No need for a huge bulky 20" unit with internal sponges and other BS, less noise, and your pump is allowed to run at full capacity. Good luck.


Can you post some pictures?


----------



## puopg

If you like I can post exactly what I used to build mine. I get 0 micro bubbles. dead silent as long as oxygen does not enter my canister filter and then into the reactor. otherwise too much o2 buildup and a bit of trickling since O2 does not dissolve very easily in water.

Everything can be purchased from Home Depot.


----------



## SlammedDC2

I also put a ball valve on my return to cut down on noise and micro bubbles. It only had to be dialed down a little bit and it took care of everything.


----------



## AlanLe

Here's mine! Where do you put the ball valve?


----------



## planted-tank

I am in the process of building my reactor and have a few questions.

Is it best to avoid using 90's? I have 2 90's on each side of my reactor, I could remove one of them, or does it not matter?

Should I buy a reducing tee rather than using the hole that on top of the reactor for my CO2??  Would that be safer?

Do I still need to use my bubble counter since I will be able to see bubbles going into reactor?

Anyone know how to find bracket for 3G-STANDARD-CLEAR-34-PR10 Pentek Whole House Standard 10 inch Filter Housing? Mine did not come with one, or some other way to make a bracket? Not sure what to connect it to the filter with, but I would like to get it off the bottom of my stand.

Thanks so much.


----------



## crazymittens

A question on integrating a CO2 reactor with a sump...could you in theory do the following:

Pump sits in return area
Reactor intakes from this pump
Reactor is physically located inside the sump, in the return area
Reactor processes CO2 as designed
Reactor outputs back into the return area
Sump return pumps send CO2-injected water back via return lines

Am I missing something...or would that work, assuming the sump is sealed...?


----------



## crazymittens

To answer my own question, seems like others have done this, no indication of issues/success.

I'm guessing that as long as the output from the reactor is not bubbly (the whole point), then the return pumps won't be affected.

Found these threads:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/12210-CO2-Reactor-Plumbing-With-Sump
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/8342-co2-method-for-210

And finally this quote from plantbrain:
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/11644-Cerges-Reactor-and-NW-combination



> The cerges style water filter modifications work well and you can get large water filters with clear housing with 25mm PVC in/out. I would place these in the sump and use a pair of them.
> They would be fed by 2 large Needle wheel powerheads, eg, maybe 2000-3000 liter hour each.
> The reactors will catch the mist and larger bubbles and help them to dissolve better.
> 
> This is important because on larger tanks, the clarity is a huge issue.
> 
> They make a common clear water filter housing like this: http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/p...-Housing-.html
> 
> Gerry, this is for you too.
> 
> You need to add a PCV tube going about 18 inches down the middle to help direct the water from inlets/outlets.
> 
> Typically there is a cartridge filter in these units, but if you use them simply as place to increase the dwell time for CO2, then you just need a PVC tube attached and glued to the middle return inside the housing.
> Also, these size filters are great for water changes and to remove Chlorine etc from house tap water.
> Just use high grade carbon blocks and replace every 3-4 months.
> 
> You do not need quite that much flow from the CO2 system, since the outflow from that will be fed back into the suction side of the return pump, which will do the mixing for the CO2 in the aquarium.


The rest of that thread I'll continue reading from...looks like it'll have the answer.


----------



## newbieplanter

Wow this looks like it'll be the best co2 diffuser. Saweeeeeeeeeeeet


----------



## tetra73

sketch804 said:


> Ya I did use that one, and I believe that I used 3/4" coupling. Even the filters for this use that size so you should be fine. Ya I figured out the same last minute when I was making mine.



Well, I finally made one today too. In less than an hour. Instead, I use a nylon adapter with a barbed end 3/4 to 3/4 fitting. Added some Teflon tape. Tightened them with a pipe wrench. Drill out the red button on top in order to pull it out. Slide the CO2 tubing through it and stopped at the mid section. Cable tied it to the center column to make it to stay in pace. I used a 1" dia hosing. I had to warm the hosing a bit to fit to the cap of the unit. It has been running for 45m so far and I am still hearing some water splashing inside the canister. 

I was using the Ista Max reactor, the large one. I am getting some ridiculous amount of micro bubbles. Yeah, the 7up look and the bubbles are sticking to the side of the tank.


----------



## tetra73

Here is a shot of my setup. I really don't understand why others are so complicated looking. So, I turned the unit upside down to get the air out. And judging from the amount of my water level before and after turning it up side down, the unit was half filled with air before. Even then, the bubbles were very few. Now, the unit has been running for 45m with CO2 on. Just testing it right now. I am not seeing any bubbles at all. I would do some ph test for each hour until 11pm. Is 9:17 in NYC. Just get an idea how much CO2 this unit can dissolve per hour. BTW, I am not running some tiny, tiny CO2 setting. I am injecting above 45ppm of CO2 level.











Update: I let the unit to run with the CO2 on for 1 hour and 30 minutes. The ph dropped from 6.6 to 6.4. That's about 35ppm of CO2 with a 3dkh. I see few, very few bubbles. Not even mist. I am powering the reactor with the Rena API XP M filter with 300 gph flow rate. I can post a picture of the tank tomorrow.


----------



## tetra73

This is my last update unless something is going really wrong with my reactor. After 3 hours with the CO2 running and the light is fully on only 3 hours later, my CO2 level is at 35ppm+, ph at 6.3, with 3dkh. Micro bubbles are barely visible coming out from the outlet. They are hard to tell mixing in with the pearling bubbles getting blown around by the water current.


----------



## tetra73

I wonder if anyone has tried this...adding a 1" dia PVC coupler to the end of the center column (1" PVC pipe). And to drill holes on the coupler. The length of the entire center column should have the coupler lightly resting on the bottom of the filter hosing. My GE hosing has a ridge sticking up at the bottom. The initial length of my center column is much shortened. I had to heat up the coupler to spread out the dia a bit in order to "cover" this ridge at the bottom. Effectively, I have extended my center column to an additional 1" longer. Micro bubbles are reduced somewhat from before. Right now, at a distance, the tank water looks very pleasing. There are micro bubbles but is hard to tell if they are from the pearling bubbles. I suppose you can even us a small size drill bit to drill the holes. That may reduce your flow rate somewhat. I was using 1/4" drill bit.


----------



## inkslinger

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165975&highlight=ext5000


tetra73 said:


> I wonder if anyone has tried this...adding a 1" dia PVC coupler to the end of the center column (1" PVC pipe). And to drill holes on the coupler. The length of the entire center column should have the coupler lightly resting on the bottom of the filter hosing. My GE hosing has a ridge sticking up at the bottom. The initial length of my center column is much shortened. I had to heat up the coupler to spread out the dia a bit in order to "cover" this ridge at the bottom. Effectively, I have extended my center column to an additional 1" longer. Micro bubbles are reduced somewhat from before. Right now, at a distance, the tank water looks very pleasing. There are micro bubbles but is hard to tell if they are from the pearling bubbles. I suppose you can even us a small size drill bit to drill the holes. That may reduce your flow rate somewhat. I was using 1/4" drill bit.


----------



## tetra73

inkslinger said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165975&highlight=ext5000



Thanks  BTW, did anyone manage to reduce even more micro bubbles by REDUCING your CO2 injection rate? While still be able to maintain your CO2 level? By mid day, I am still getting some micro bubbles, more than I would like. I then realized that, with the CO2 off and turning my unit upside down, I saw stream of bubbles blowing out. Obviously, my CO2 injection was more than what my flow rate can dissolve. With 40% less CO2 being injected, I could barely hear the water splashing inside the unit. I am going to leave the current setting as it is for tomorrow to see if I could achieve the same CO2 level with even less CO2 being injected. I guess, in theory, once the CO2 is being build up too much and beginning to collect at the top of the unit, you can not increase your CO2 level any further.


----------



## gus6464

tetra73 said:


>


What kind of tubing is that?


----------



## tetra73

gus6464 said:


> What kind of tubing is that?


They came with my API Rena XP filter. Is about 3/4" in dia. Very flexible but rigid enough not to bend too much.


----------



## tetra73

After reducing my CO2 injection from 11psi down to 6psi, I have no micro bubbles this morning. And the CO2 has been on for 3 hours before the light comes on. However, my CO2 level was only 28ppm the most. Not 35ppm that I was hoping for. So, I upped the psi to 7-8 psi. Micro bubbles are extremely minimal and the CO2 is around 38ppm by the end of the light cycle.


----------



## geesantoz

RedDelPaPa said:


> Hey guys. I've been following this thread for a while now. Seems to me people are having the same problems with the 20" units that they're having with the smaller more manageable 10" units. And that is noise and micro bubbles escaping the filter housing. So here is my solution, and a very simple one in that. It requires no filter sponge at the bottom of the reactor which WILL clog and WILL eventually require maintenance. Control your flow rate through the reactor with a built in bypass line using a simple two little fishes ball valve that connects from your pump outlet, to the outflow line of the co2 reactor. Fire up the system and let come up to operating equilibrium. If you have micro bubbles exiting the reactor, simply crack your bypass valve until the micro bubble discharge stops. Problem solved. No need for a huge bulky 20" unit with internal sponges and other BS, less noise, and your pump is allowed to run at full capacity. Good luck.


Sorry ... I am not clear with this solution. Perhaps somebody can clears it up ... 
is this something like this ? the ball valve control the flow through cerges ?


----------



## m00se

I'm thinking that he means to bypass the water so that less is flowing through the reactor. This way you don't have to choke the pump and risk damaging it. It would give you more dwell time to dissolve the co2.


----------



## geesantoz

m00se said:


> I'm thinking that he means to bypass the water so that less is flowing through the reactor. This way you don't have to choke the pump and risk damaging it. It would give you more dwell time to dissolve the co2.


Thanks mOOse.
as currently i am trying to have only single return to the tank, with the 2x Y splitter i should be able to split and combine the output while regulating the flow on the split to cerges reactor, with the help of the ball valve on the cerges output, before the 2nd Y splitter to combine the flow (same principal to regulate canister filter output on the output line rather than input).

I am not sure whether this make sense ... or if the ball valve should be put on the 1st Y splitter, right before input to cerges.

EDIT:
Ball Valve 1 is on input line for cerges
Ball Valve 2 is on the output line for cerges
i am thinking currently to use Ball valve 2 to regulate flow passing through cerges.
Similar approach is being used on external water heater being used on the pool, the flow goes to the heater (in this case cerges) need to be slower in order to heat properly (in this case to disolve the co2 properly), the bypass line is to let the excess flow through while the flow to the heater line is regulated with ball valve.
with this, the filter flow rate is maintained (not being reduced as if only single ball valve without splitter and no bypass line).


----------



## m00se

I'm no hydraulics engineer here, but I suspect that everything in that "circuit" will flow right through the bypass hose and ignore the cerges reactor completely. If it were me I would put the ball valve #1 on the bypass hose after the Y to the reactor, and contol the bypass flow that way. That would eliminate the need for ball valve #2 and assuming all the tubing is the same diameter would give you what you're after.


----------



## geesantoz

m00se said:


> I'm no hydraulics engineer here, but I suspect that everything in that "circuit" will flow right through the bypass hose and ignore the cerges reactor completely. If it were me I would put the ball valve #1 on the bypass hose after the Y to the reactor, and contol the bypass flow that way. That would eliminate the need for ball valve #2 and assuming all the tubing is the same diameter would give you what you're after.


Hmmm ... what you say make sense ... it goes to less restrictive path.
i am looking at following water heater concept, and it seems consistent with your thought on the ball valve #1 on bypass line.
Also there is a check valve involved on this approach, to prevent back flow to the water heater.


----------



## geesantoz

m00se said:


> I'm no hydraulics engineer here, but I suspect that everything in that "circuit" will flow right through the bypass hose and ignore the cerges reactor completely. If it were me I would put the ball valve #1 on the bypass hose after the Y to the reactor, and contol the bypass flow that way. That would eliminate the need for ball valve #2 and assuming all the tubing is the same diameter would give you what you're after.


So to put into the drawing, on the left is your suggestion.
On the right, I might found another alternative that divert the flow (using pond diverter valve, i found there is 3/4" threaded that seems can be used for this application).

I am currently collecting the part and will try m00se suggestion, and if it does not work will try the alternative using a diverter valve.


----------



## m00se

Go with the option on the left. The design of the cerges reactor makes a check valve unnecessary. Water can't backflow into it plumbed the way your diagram on the left is laid out.


----------



## geesantoz

m00se said:


> Go with the option on the left. The design of the cerges reactor makes a check valve unnecessary. Water can't backflow into it plumbed the way your diagram on the left is laid out.


Thanks ... will try on the left, but the first Y spitter may need to use a T instead and the straight through goes to bypass line which will have a ball valve to control the flow on the bypass (indirectly control the flow through cerges). the Y splitter to combine at the end of the line however is important to use i don't think this can use a T to combine flow properly.

I still like the alternative with diverter valve though as it will evenly divert the flow properly without adding a back pressure such on the left solution. Perhaps the check valve is unnecessary.
But as i have no experience using a diverter valve, perhaps something else might become as an issue that i fail to capture.


----------



## m00se

I would use a Y on both ends. T's add too much additional flow restriction and you might have to choke off the bypass more than you want, to get satisfactory flow to the cerges. Capishe?


----------



## m00se

geesantoz said:


> I still like the alternative with diverter valve though as it will evenly divert the flow properly without adding a back pressure such on the left solution. Perhaps the check valve is unnecessary.
> But as i have no experience using a diverter valve, perhaps something else might become as an issue that i fail to capture.


If I'm not mistaken, a diverter is nothing more than a ball or butterfly valve. I think you're overthinking it. If your canister is so underpowered that you're worried about the additional resistance a cerges represents, you might want to consider upgrading it.


----------



## geesantoz

m00se said:


> I would use a Y on both ends. T's add too much additional flow restriction and you might have to choke off the bypass more than you want, to get satisfactory flow to the cerges. Capishe?


Thanks ... I will put that in mind.


----------



## geesantoz

m00se said:


> If I'm not mistaken, a diverter is nothing more than a ball or butterfly valve. I think you're overthinking it. If your canister is so underpowered that you're worried about the additional resistance a cerges represents, you might want to consider upgrading it.


The idea is just to give enough flow through the cerges to get what level i need to get the co2 dissolve in the water, and left the excess flow goes through bypass hose. so rather than using a single ball valve to control the flow, in order to make no micro bubble from cerges, which affect the overall flow back to tank. With the diverter i can get the split i want to cerges and combine it back at the end of the line, so hopefully less flow rate affected with this method ... And so i thought ... just need to try this. :redface:


----------



## fishyboy

For what you want, place a gate valve on the bypass line. If you want to be sure, but a gate valve on both sides. The idea of having a BV before and after the cerges is nice for cleaning but not needed. That said, I highly doubt you need to restrict the system with a simple cannister. What are you running? Back in the day I had one on a 2028 and it was not enough flow.


----------



## geesantoz

fishyboy said:


> For what you want, place a gate valve on the bypass line. If you want to be sure, but a gate valve on both sides. The idea of having a BV before and after the cerges is nice for cleaning but not needed. That said, I highly doubt you need to restrict the system with a simple cannister. What are you running? Back in the day I had one on a 2028 and it was not enough flow.


I have a 75G with 2217 and ISTA MAX MIX (LARGE) at the moment and i see the micro bubble all over the place. I don't like the performance of ISTA as well as i need to crank up the CO2 BPS higher (uncountable from BC). So looking for more efficient way to dissolve co2 into the water. 

At the moment, the flow for 2217 seems not enough to give proper circulation that i need ( I use a koralia to help this out ). But this does not mean that cerges will not produce micro bubble. Reducing the 2217 output flow is not an option in my case.
To add another stronger canister filter or a second canister filter as suggested by m00se may be an option, but i try to defer it as a last option (still need to channel the money to other tanks).

I really hope that i can use this bypass method for now. I am planning to use a 10" canister due to tight space i have.


----------



## m00se

You could always grab one of these bad boys for $55 shipped:

http://goo.gl/M0pR4a

They move a lot of water and you can modify the sponges in them to your heart's content. There are threads here and elsewhere to do it and since it's not your primary filter you could even get creative with the canister contents. Just a thought.


----------



## fishyboy

I really doubt you'll need a bypass line with only a 2217.


----------



## geesantoz

I just receive my canister for 10" ... unfortunately it come with 1/2" port ... will this work ?


----------



## geesantoz

*Cerges 20" with 2217*

JUST TO UPDATE:
I receive the 20" canister last weekend and has been using it for couple of days. The added air release button is a requirement for 20" as i will not be able to turn it upside down inside the stand.

I add the bypass line with valve, and leave the one to the cerges line without valve as limited on space to manouver the tubing.

with 2217, I don't seem a need to open the valve on bypass line (or use the bypass line at all) as i really see less/unnoticeable micro bubble return into the tank. Perhaps later if i use bigger filter flow (or if the bubble noticeable after filter maintenance), i might use the bypass line valve. So i decide to leave the valve as it is.









Performance wise compared to ISTA max mix large, is much better. 
I can push more CO2 faster (my fish showed a little stress with the cerges in place, so i backed out on BPS) and giving a rest to the solenoid to operate less time (monitored through PH controller). 
The DC (4dKH+Bromo) showing YELLOW at 6.1/6.2 mark on PH controller within an hour or less (using ISTA, i have to turned on 2 hour prior light on -- and not even got the YELLOW).

I will monitor for a while using the cerges setup to see if i need further improvement to dissolve CO2.

Thanks Guys for the advice ... !!! :red_mouth 
:thumbsup: This thread is really helpful ...


----------



## meisterluv

so um I'm a visual learner and want to make this reactor. is there a place where the original pictures have been stashed?


----------



## mwuf15

if anyone is interested, I have three 90 deg nylon elbows (3/4" x 5/8" barb) left from a cerges build. 

meisterluv: if you google images for cerges reactor you can get an idea of how it is put together.


----------



## meisterluv

What is the needle piece called?


----------



## Chronados

A hose barb


----------



## Highlander

I am getting ready to set up my first high tech tank and bought a 20" filter as recommended here on the thread:
http://www.discountfilterstore.com/water-filter-whole-house-pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html 
It will be powered by a fluval 406 on a 40B. My question is, what is the consensus on how to deliver the co2? Should I drill the top or use a tee? If a tee then barb up or down? I guess I am planning on putting a ball valve before and after the reactor as well. Thanks


----------



## newbieplanter

Highlander said:


> I am getting ready to set up my first high tech tank and bought a 20" filter as recommended here on the thread:
> http://www.discountfilterstore.com/water-filter-whole-house-pentek-3g-standard-20-clear-pr20.html
> It will be powered by a fluval 406 on a 40B. My question is, what is the consensus on how to deliver the co2? Should I drill the top or use a tee? If a tee then barb up or down? I guess I am planning on putting a ball valve before and after the reactor as well. Thanks


I just got 2 of these WHFs 1 big an 1 small an both are drilled at the top where I guess either a relief valve of some sort was, an CO2 hose was inserted so the CO2 is delivered into the chamber an mixes with the water an as the water exits goes to the tank already mixed with CO2. I haven't put the system together yet but this is what I get from the info I read on this build.


----------



## m00se

That's where the bleed off valve used to be and I don't recommend you remove it on a new one. Yes you can interference fit vinyl hose through the hole and yes it will work that way without trouble. You *really* want that valve to be able to purge air out of the unit though. My setup has a separate pump/spray bar and I put the CO2 on the output of the pump with a T to a nipple to CO2 then to the WHF. You could do that too with the output of the canister. That's what I recommend.


----------



## Highlander

Thanks, I was hoping you would reply Moose. I intend to keep the relief valve because I want the the ability to purge the air without having to turn the whole thing upside down. Honestly I would like to try and avoid using a separate pump and spray bar. I would like as little as possible in the tank. I will try and just use the Fluval 406 to see if that works, if not then I would probably get a separate pump. So in me leaving the relief valve, could I drill a hole into the head unit and the co2 line in there or is using a tee better?


----------



## Highlander

Also, if I were to run a separate pump for the reactor, what would you recommend for a 40B? I was looking at a mag 2. I would also like the option to put a uv sterilizer inline with the mag pump if needed in the future along with the reactor. The fluval 406 already has a high turnover rate for a 40 gallon. Do you mind posting or sending me a pic of the set up (inside the tank, not the stand). I just want to see if I think it is too cluttered for my preferences. Lol. Now that I start thinking about it, I think a separate pump is the way to go.


----------



## newbieplanter

m00se said:


> That's where the bleed off valve used to be and I don't recommend you remove it on a new one. Yes you can interference fit vinyl hose through the hole and yes it will work that way without trouble. You *really* want that valve to be able to purge air out of the unit though. My setup has a separate pump/spray bar and I put the CO2 on the output of the pump with a T to a nipple to CO2 then to the WHF. You could do that too with the output of the canister. That's what I recommend.


In the beginning for the build of that diffuser is how it's done also.


----------



## m00se

Yes you can drill an undersize hole in the cap and pull the CO2 line through with a pair of pliers. My thought was to have as much agitation as possible so I chose to use the Tee/nipple before the mixture entered the WHF. Let me get my potato out and take a shot of the top of the tank. I put the "L" shaped 1/2" ID bar on the opposite end from the intakes. It's really not noticeable on my 40b from the viewing position. Used Krylon Fusion flat black paint on the PVC and it blends well. The pump is a Mag 5. If I had to do it over again I might want to go to a smaller pump. As is I throttle it back about 1/3.

Here is one dirty spray bar LOL (tonight is WC night and I let it evaporate down as you can see). You can't see the vertical part of the L going down the back corner due to plants and driftwood.


----------



## newbieplanter

m00se said:


> Yes you can drill an undersize hole in the cap and pull the CO2 line through with a pair of pliers. My thought was to have as much agitation as possible so I chose to use the Tee/nipple before the mixture entered the WHF. Let me get my potato out and take a shot of the top of the tank. I put the "L" shaped 1/2" ID bar on the opposite end from the intakes. It's really not noticeable on my 40b from the viewing position. Used Krylon Fusion flat black paint on the PVC and it blends well. The pump is a Mag 5. If I had to do it over again I might want to go to a smaller pump. As is I throttle it back about 1/3.
> 
> Here is one dirty spray bar LOL (tonight is WC night and I let it evaporate down as you can see). You can't see the vertical part of the L going down the back corner due to plants and driftwood.


I have to say u lost me on this one?


----------



## m00se

What part did you not understand?


----------



## newbieplanter

m00se said:


> What part did you not understand?


The whole part where i was talking about this 

an u started talkin about a spray bar?


----------



## m00se

Highlander said:


> Also, if I were to run a separate pump for the reactor, what would you recommend for a 40B? I was looking at a mag 2. I would also like the option to put a uv sterilizer inline with the mag pump if needed in the future along with the reactor. The fluval 406 already has a high turnover rate for a 40 gallon. Do you mind posting or sending me a pic of the set up (inside the tank, not the stand). I just want to see if I think it is too cluttered for my preferences. Lol. Now that I start thinking about it, I think a separate pump is the way to go.


Sorry - I was answering Highlander


----------



## m00se

Ah I see what you're asking now...yes I believe putting a T in the waterline going into the first reactor just gives it more dwell time to mix and causes more agitation which is what we want right? You *really* want to keep those purge valves. They save a lot of time and headache. Also, unless I'm mistaken, it looks like you have the air line going into the second WHF in your picture instead of the first one... 

I am very interested in the outcome of your build. I have thought about adding another WHF to my setup just like you have so that I can ram more water through it without 7-up-tank-syndrome.


----------



## newbieplanter

Highlander said:


> Also, if I were to run a separate pump for the reactor, what would you recommend for a 40B? I was looking at a mag 2. I would also like the option to put a uv sterilizer inline with the mag pump if needed in the future along with the reactor. The fluval 406 already has a high turnover rate for a 40 gallon. Do you mind posting or sending me a pic of the set up (inside the tank, not the stand). I just want to see if I think it is too cluttered for my preferences. Lol. Now that I start thinking about it, I think a separate pump is the way to go.





m00se said:


> Sorry - I was answering Highlander


My bad.


----------



## Highlander

I never thought about running it in a L shape. I like it. It would keep both spray bars hidden for the most part. I take it that both returns are on the same side. Do you use a prefilter on the intake for the mag drive? And from you say that you gate down the mag 5 by 2/3, then I would assume that a mag 2 would be plenty of flow and may even need to be gated back some. Thanks for the pic.


----------



## andyl9063

anyone actually use this on a large tank like maybe a 220g?

does the pump matter? Can I use an eheim 2224 that's rated: Pump Output: 185 gph?
Slower the flow, better co2 rates?


----------



## newbieplanter

AlanLe said:


> Here's mine! Where do you put the ball valve?


I like this setup it's simple what size tank u running this on? R u useing a spray bar or something else?


----------



## andyl9063

andyl9063 said:


> anyone actually use this on a large tank like maybe a 220g?
> 
> does the pump matter? Can I use an eheim 2224 that's rated: Pump Output: 185 gph?
> Slower the flow, better co2 rates?


can you guys post your results and your tank size?


----------



## newbieplanter

Why such a big 20" filter?


----------



## andyl9063

newbieplanter said:


> Why such a big 20" filter?


i believe it gives more time for the co2 to stay in the water column to be dissolve. From the looks of it, its more for larger tanks and higher pump volume.


----------



## ua hua

andyl9063 said:


> can you guys post your results and your tank size?


Isn't your tank using a sump? If it is why not get a needle wheel pump and run it into a filter housing to help catch some of the bubbles and have the return to that go back into your sump and get picked up by your main return pump to take the water into your tank. 

I use a mag drive 7 with fractioning impeller ran into my cerges style reactor/bubble collector on my 90 gal. and it works great. You could use the same setup as I have or modify it by getting a lager whole house filter if you use a larger pump. The way mine is running the contact time is just fine after some fine tuning with a ball valve. You can see the bubble collector I built in post #65 in my journal. Very simple and cost under $40, but best of all it works great.


----------



## inkslinger

I had a 4 1/2x20 Big Blue whole house filter with 1 inch ports for my reactor but I filled mine with mini bio balls to the top , I use a Aqua Medic T before the reactor for my co2 and had it hook up with my Eheim 2262 900g filter . My co2 bps was high for my 120g tank but never got burp or 7-up look.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165975&highlight=ext5000


andyl9063 said:


> anyone actually use this on a large tank like maybe a 220g?
> 
> does the pump matter? Can I use an eheim 2224 that's rated: Pump Output: 185 gph?
> Slower the flow, better co2 rates?


----------



## andyl9063

ua hua said:


> Isn't your tank using a sump? If it is why not get a needle wheel pump and run it into a filter housing to help catch some of the bubbles and have the return to that go back into your sump and get picked up by your main return pump to take the water into your tank.
> 
> I use a mag drive 7 with fractioning impeller ran into my cerges style reactor/bubble collector on my 90 gal. and it works great. You could use the same setup as I have or modify it by getting a lager whole house filter if you use a larger pump. The way mine is running the contact time is just fine after some fine tuning with a ball valve. You can see the bubble collector I built in post #65 in my journal. Very simple and cost under $40, but best of all it works great.


yeah, i brought the 20" housing to make the cerges reactor. If i still see some mist, I'll add the nw pump.


----------



## andyl9063

I got mine hook up and running.
I might be confuse on one thing. The output of the canister filter, does it go on the input or output of the housing?

I have the filter output going into input of housing according to flow.
The co2 enter and is there suppose to be a splash? 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## rdmustang1

andyl9063 said:


> anyone actually use this on a large tank like maybe a 220g?
> 
> does the pump matter? Can I use an eheim 2224 that's rated: Pump Output: 185 gph?
> Slower the flow, better co2 rates?


I have mine running on my tank (total volume of 260 gallons) using an eheim 1262 at close to 900 GPH and it works great. Flow only matters if a high flow forces CO2 through the reactor. I recommend hooking up the reactor as detailed in Cerges' post (input to input).



andyl9063 said:


> I got mine hook up and running.
> I might be confuse on one thing. The output of the canister filter, does it go on the input or output of the housing?
> 
> I have the filter output going into input of housing according to flow.
> The co2 enter and is there suppose to be a splash?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


There shouldn't really be a splash. If you hook up input to input then you'll see CO2 enter the reactor and agitate at the top. If you hook it up in reverse all the CO2 should absorb in the PVC pipe. If the pipe is clear then you should see the CO2 agitate within the pipe.

Link to a video of mine in action (input to input).


----------



## andyl9063

rdmustang1 said:


> I have mine running on my tank (total volume of 260 gallons) using an eheim 1262 at close to 900 GPH and it works great. Flow only matters if a high flow forces CO2 through the reactor. I recommend hooking up the reactor as detailed in Cerges' post (input to input).
> 
> 
> 
> There shouldn't really be a splash. If you hook up input to input then you'll see CO2 enter the reactor and agitate at the top. If you hook it up in reverse all the CO2 should absorb in the PVC pipe. If the pipe is clear then you should see the CO2 agitate within the pipe.
> 
> Link to a video of mine in action (input to input).


I hook it from filter to output and co2 didn't dissolve really well, bubbles kept escaping . I tried filter to input according to flow arrow and the co2 level drop much quicker but there was splash and co2 was probably lost. Going to try with better pump.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## newbieplanter

I really don't see the big deal about this reactor, I know people are trying to get rid of bubbles in their tank. I got a ceramic disc diffuser and there aren't too many? The only time my tank looks like a "glass of soda" is when I do water changes.


----------



## andyl9063

rdmustang1 said:


> I have mine running on my tank (total volume of 260 gallons) using an eheim 1262 at close to 900 GPH and it works great. Flow only matters if a high flow forces CO2 through the reactor. I recommend hooking up the reactor as detailed in Cerges' post (input to input).
> 
> 
> 
> There shouldn't really be a splash. If you hook up input to input then you'll see CO2 enter the reactor and agitate at the top. If you hook it up in reverse all the CO2 should absorb in the PVC pipe. If the pipe is clear then you should see the CO2 agitate within the pipe.
> 
> Link to a video of mine in action (input to input).


thanks.



newbieplanter said:


> I really don't see the big deal about this reactor, I know people are trying to get rid of bubbles in their tank. I got a ceramic disc diffuser and there aren't too many? The only time my tank looks like a "glass of soda" is when I do water changes.


you just can't use something like that one a big tank.......


----------



## newbieplanter

I have a 70 an I get real good diffusion in my tank. I'm gonna make a bigger tank but I'm gonna have to drop my 70 pond/tank an a few others first lol.


----------



## m00se

newbieplanter said:


> I really don't see the big deal about this reactor, I know people are trying to get rid of bubbles in their tank. I got a ceramic disc diffuser and there aren't too many? The only time my tank looks like a "glass of soda" is when I do water changes.


It depends on your setup. I turn my tank 8-10 times an hour and a diffuser would look like a forest fire ember in a wind storm. Those bubbles eventually end up in your canister and get trapped and then you have problems.


----------



## rdmustang1

newbieplanter said:


> I really don't see the big deal about this reactor, I know people are trying to get rid of bubbles in their tank. I got a ceramic disc diffuser and there aren't too many? The only time my tank looks like a "glass of soda" is when I do water changes.


I think it's cool to watch. If I wanted to use a ceramic diffusor on my tank I'd have to set up 2 or 3 of them which means 2 or 3 needle valves which would cost too much. Plus, I like having all my equipment under the tank instead of in the tank as it's much nicer looking. I like mine so much I'm even putting one on my upcoming 12 long


----------



## andyl9063

rdmustang1 said:


> I think it's cool to watch. If I wanted to use a ceramic diffusor on my tank I'd have to set up 2 or 3 of them which means 2 or 3 needle valves which would cost too much. Plus, I like having all my equipment under the tank instead of in the tank as it's much nicer looking. I like mine so much I'm even putting one on my upcoming 12 long


you got that right, it was cool looking with the clear housing. Waiting on bigger pump to avoid the splashing.


----------



## Adam7288

What happened to the pictures in the beginning? Really want to attempt this but do not feel comfortable without the pictures...


----------



## ua hua

Adam7288 said:


> What happened to the pictures in the beginning? Really want to attempt this but do not feel comfortable without the pictures...


It's pretty simple to make and I'm sure there is several other pictures throughout the thread. Here is a link to the one I made but keep in mind I run mine post needle wheel pump so I have no input for the co2 to enter the reactor housing. So you either have to remove the relief button and figure out a way to install the co2 hose through that opening or the easier and safer way would be to use a t-fitting similar to this and inject the co2 into the input of the reactor.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Aqua_Med...quariums-Aqua_Medic_USA-AQ9113-FICOPP-vi.html

Here is the link to mine I built:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=400361&highlight=


----------



## m00se

Hoky smokes that's a lot of money for that Tee! Add $6.99 shipping to that! Lowes is definitely your friend. Heck even US Plastic will sell you one less dear than that. Or you could drill a hole right in the top of the whole house filter undersized for the size vinyl tubing you're using. 1/8" for 3/16" tubing for instance. Then cut the tubing end diagonally and force fit the tip of it into the hole and pull it through with a pair of pliers. Similar to the forced fit you would use on the bottle caps for a DIY CO2 generator. Water tight, and costs $0. I *DO NOT* recommend you use the bleed button hole because you will need that button to get rid of air in the top of the filter.


----------



## newbieplanter

ua hua said:


> It's pretty simple to make and I'm sure there is several other pictures throughout the thread. Here is a link to the one I made but keep in mind I run mine post needle wheel pump so I have no input for the co2 to enter the reactor housing. So you either have to remove the relief button and figure out a way to install the co2 hose through that opening or the easier and safer way would be to use a t-fitting similar to this and inject the co2 into the input of the reactor.
> 
> http://www.marinedepot.com/Aqua_Med...quariums-Aqua_Medic_USA-AQ9113-FICOPP-vi.html
> 
> Here is the link to mine I built:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=400361&highlight=


I like the idea of the flex pipe where did u pick that up from?


----------



## ua hua

newbieplanter said:


> I like the idea of the flex pipe where did u pick that up from?


It's a flex riser for a sprinkler system but I didn't use it because the i.d. was so small. I thought I was going to need to squeeze pipes in because of limited room but made it work. I also used straight barb fittings for the reactor and not the elbows.


----------



## MoeBetta

m00se said:


> I *DO NOT* recommend you use the bleed button hole because you will need that button to get rid of air in the top of the filter.


I'll second that. I drilled a hole and threaded in a fitting for the hose to attach to.


----------



## ua hua

I wouldn't recommend using the bleed valve either but some people have used it and with the proper fittings you can get it water tight. It's so much easier to just use a t-fitting like the one I linked.


----------



## newbieplanter

MoeBetta said:


> I'll second that. I drilled a hole and threaded in a fitting for the hose to attach to.


I was actually thinking about this myself but then I saw someone had a PVC "T" with a fitting on it an I just think something like that would be much better an easier too.


----------



## MoeBetta

ua hua said:


> I wouldn't recommend using the bleed valve either but some people have used it and with the proper fittings you can get it water tight. It's so much easier to just use a t-fitting like the one I linked.


It's not that you can't get it tight, it's that you no longer have a bleed valve.


----------



## m00se

Getting it water tight is trivial. If you have the desire to burn money and want an additional bulky fitting hanging off the end of the reactor in what's usually a pretty tight space, then the Tee is a good way to go. Undersizing the hole and force fitting the tubing through it has been prettymuch the standard way to do it. YMMV.


----------



## ua hua

MoeBetta said:


> It's not that you can't get it tight, it's that you no longer have a bleed valve.


Well I have never had to use my bleed valve on my new setup because I get 100% dissolution so I have no gas build up at all. When I was using an Aquamedic 1000 I would always have false gas build up on the top of the reactor. If you get the flow rate going into the reactor matched up with the co2 bubble rate then you shouldn't have to worry about having to bleed off built up gas. Isn't that the point we are trying to reach...100% dissolution?


----------



## andyl9063

are you guys having to use the bleed valve much?
Its not that I have gas building at the top, but I tend to heard water splashing down. There's like maybe a inch of gap between water level and top of the cap. If I use bleed valve, water level will rise to top of housing, but it will eventually get back down to that level before.

I have a 1000gph pump going into there. I was using a eheim canister filter rated at 180gph, but same issue.


----------



## ua hua

andyl9063 said:


> are you guys having to use the bleed valve much?
> Its not that I have gas building at the top, but I tend to heard water splashing down. There's like maybe a inch of gap between water level and top of the cap. If I use bleed valve, water level will rise to top of housing, but it will eventually get back down to that level before.
> 
> I have a 1000gph pump going into there. I was using a eheim canister filter rated at 180gph, but same issue.


I never have had to use my relief valve on my new setup as my reactor is always completely full of water. I had the problem of gas build up when I was using the Aquamedic reactor. Do you have a ball valve on the outlet of the reactor at all? If you do you might want to close it a little to slow down the flow coming out. Do you have any bubbles coming out of the output of the reactor? If you have a space void of water in your reactor then you are having gas building up. If you were getting 100% dissolution then the bubbles would dissolve before causing this gas build up on the top. The co2 bubbles are not dissolving all the way and trying to escape into the atmosphere thus building up inside your reactor.


----------



## andyl9063

ua hua said:


> I never have had to use my relief valve on my new setup as my reactor is always completely full of water. I had the problem of gas build up when I was using the Aquamedic reactor. Do you have a ball valve on the outlet of the reactor at all? If you do you might want to close it a little to slow down the flow coming out. Do you have any bubbles coming out of the output of the reactor? If you have a space void of water in your reactor then you are having gas building up. If you were getting 100% dissolution then the bubbles would dissolve before causing this gas build up on the top. The co2 bubbles are not dissolving all the way and trying to escape into the atmosphere thus building up inside your reactor.


i see. I don't have a ball valve on the output. I might try that.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

CO2 dissolves much faster if the pressure is high, like how soda is carbonated. This is why you want to have high water flow going into the reactor, and restrict the flow on the outlet. This will increase the internal pressure of the reactor. A ball valve will accomplish this. The higher the pressure, the faster and more efficient the dissolution.


----------



## m00se

That sounds very romantic but I don't think that's a consideration. The pressure delta is minimal on a restricted output flow. The reason the valve is on the output is because pumps don't like to be starved. Putting it on the intake could possibly cause cavitation, and that would be bad.

Cheers


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

A powerful pump is required to increase pressure a lot but even a slight increase in pressure will speed dissolution.


----------



## m00se

Got any numbers on that? I'd be interested.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

I don't know exact psi but I'm sure pressure gauges can measure it.


----------



## MoeBetta

You're fairly unlikely to see much of an increase when you have an unrestricted bypass line.

If that was really the intent you'd likely be better served with a high head pump in a separate loop. At that point a globe valve would probably be better suited to your intents since you care more about building pressure and accurately adjusting it than overall flow.

Then your filter would be able to run unrestricted.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Yeah, that would have to be the case, to use a separate pump from the canister filter. It's also possible to use an extremely large flow rate canister filter, way more than is necessary for the aquarium size, and cut the flow way down.


----------



## Matthew RJ

I read pages 1-10, and now just skipped to the end. Are there new photos added somewhere in between? The description of how to build is a good start, but I need to see the pictures missing from page 1.


----------



## m00se

Looks like Craigthor moved or deleted his original build pix. You might PM him and ask him to refresh the links in his original post.


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## Solcielo lawrencia

Use this filter housing for a cerges reactor, the Watts WH-LD _with shutoff control_:





This removes the need for separate ball valves on the inlet/outlets. Just add 3/4" NPT barbs. It's a lot simpler.


----------



## andyl9063

Anytime getting leaks from the 20" housing? 
The leaks are coming from top of the housing where the cap meets housing.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## m00se

Mine's fine but as I *warned and warned and warned* some more! If you don't vaseline the crap out of the threads and the top surfaces you will need a very large pipe wrench and 2 friends to get that cap off again! Do NOT over tighten!


----------



## fattboa

A cerges reactor with a tee. Do you see water in the airline from the needle valve? Should the gas pressure overcome the water pressure?


----------



## andyl9063

so i place a ball valve on both return line and pump line, just can't get the water to fill to top unless I purge all the air out every time.... 
I keep adjusting, but water never fills to top and all I hear is water dropping down into housing.


----------



## newbieplanter

I was wondering if I had some brass connections on this will it affect my water or the CO2 out put in anyway mainly the water? Will there be high levels of metal contanimation?


----------



## rdmustang1

Matthew RJ said:


> I read pages 1-10, and now just skipped to the end. Are there new photos added somewhere in between? The description of how to build is a good start, but I need to see the pictures missing from page 1.


I remember being in your boat. It seems confusing but this thing really is stupid simple to put together.

The easiest setup is to put a Tee to inject the CO2 into the return water line. Water goes into the filter housing and down the outside of the pipe. As water gets pushed down it dissolves the CO2. When CO2 dissolves into the water it can flow down and then up through the PVC pipe. The pipe leads out of the filter housing and into your tank.








fattboa said:


> A cerges reactor with a tee. Do you see water in the airline from the needle valve? Should the gas pressure overcome the water pressure?


On my high flow rate CO2 system there is no water in my tubing. On my low flow rate there are a few drops but water pretty much stays out. The pressure of the CO2 has to be greater than the pressure formed by the return pump or else no CO2 will exit your tank. Pumps that I've worked with run in the 3-7psi range so any decent regulator at 10psi should be fine.




newbieplanter said:


> I was wondering if I had some brass connections on this will it affect my water or the CO2 out put in anyway mainly the water? Will there be high levels of metal contanimation?


No worries.


----------



## andyl9063

Why is my reactor so loud? All I hear is water dropping into housing?

Anyone having same issues?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Solcielo lawrencia

andyl9063 said:


> Why is my reactor so loud? All I hear is water dropping into housing?
> 
> Anyone having same issues?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


What is the pump powering the reactor? How many feet rise is the return tube?


----------



## andyl9063

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> What is the pump powering the reactor? How many feet rise is the return tube?


The pump is rated for 900gph with no feet lost. There's no feet rise. It's going from reactor down to sump.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## ua hua

andyl9063 said:


> The pump is rated for 900gph with no feet lost. There's no feet rise. It's going from reactor down to sump.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


How is it hooked up? Is the input going into the reactor then out through the PVC standpipe or in through the PVC standpipe and out the top of the reactor. If you purge the reactor by pushing the red button does the air pocket come back?


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

andyl9063 said:


> The pump is rated for 900gph with no feet lost. There's no feet rise. It's going from reactor down to sump.


The problem is that you don't have any pressure in the chamber which increases the rate of dissolution. In order to create pressure, you'll need to restrict the outflow by using a ball valve or something else. Another way to increase pressure is to place the chamber a few feet below the tank so that the weight of the water on the return increases the pressure. But I'd stick with the ball valve.


----------



## andyl9063

ua hua said:


> How is it hooked up? Is the input going into the reactor then out through the PVC standpipe or in through the PVC standpipe and out the top of the reactor. If you purge the reactor by pushing the red button does the air pocket come back?


input is going into reactor then out through pvc standpipe, like the directional flow on reactor. If I purge it, yes it does, but will go back down eventually.



Solcielo lawrencia said:


> The problem is that you don't have any pressure in the chamber which increases the rate of dissolution. In order to create pressure, you'll need to restrict the outflow by using a ball valve or something else. Another way to increase pressure is to place the chamber a few feet below the tank so that the weight of the water on the return increases the pressure. But I'd stick with the ball valve.


I do have a ball valve on there, you don't see it?


----------



## NickRummy

For everyone using the tee fitting going into the input on the reactor. Is there no diffuser? Just the CO2 like going into a barb on the fitting and merging into the water going into the inlet? 

Just gathering parts to build my reactor and doing some thinking. What if I were to run the CO2 tube through the tee and into the inlet so the tubing came down into the down pipe. Then at the end have a diffuser. Would this help at all?

I know overall pressure in the reactor would help as well. Just throwing it out there. I plan on using my reactor on a 29g tank thats using a 220gph canister filter. 

I attached a pic of what I was think for routing the tube. Obviously it doesnt have a downpipe or show the tee.


----------



## newbieplanter

This is how im gonna set mine up, any ideas anyone can think of?


----------



## NickRummy

Are you guys doing anything special for diffusing the CO2 going into the Tee fitting? Also, i ran my setup so the output of the canister went into the output of the reactor. This means the water coming in goes down the tube in the middle of the reactor. Problem I'm having is the bubbles I'm getting are large and don't break up in the tube. They just go right thru the tube and out into the reactor as large bubbles right into the tank. 

I'm think I have it backwards and need to have the water going into the reactor go into the large canister portion and the middle tube is then getting water from the bottom if the reactor and pushing it to the tank. 

Here's my setup. Tried adding a gauge at the top of the canister since I was reading a lot about internal pressure helping disperse CO2. Running with ball valve wide open on the marineland C220 it shows no pressure. If I cut the output back some I can get a flicker and if I cut back nearly all the flow I get maybe 1-2psi. 

The valve on top is so I can bleed the air from inside the canister.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Don't expect to get high pressure in the reactor; even a little bit increases dissolution rate. The biggest problem is that the canister filter doesn't have a significant output to begin with so reducing flow will reduce the efficiency of the canister's biological filter as well as reduced flow in the tank which can lead to other problems.


----------



## newbieplanter

NickRummy said:


> Are you guys doing anything special for diffusing the CO2 going into the Tee fitting? Also, i ran my setup so the output of the canister went into the output of the reactor. This means the water coming in goes down the tube in the middle of the reactor. Problem I'm having is the bubbles I'm getting are large and don't break up in the tube. They just go right thru the tube and out into the reactor as large bubbles right into the tank.
> 
> I'm think I have it backwards and need to have the water going into the reactor go into the large canister portion and the middle tube is then getting water from the bottom if the reactor and pushing it to the tank.
> 
> Here's my setup. Tried adding a gauge at the top of the canister since I was reading a lot about internal pressure helping disperse CO2. Running with ball valve wide open on the marineland C220 it shows no pressure. If I cut the output back some I can get a flicker and if I cut back nearly all the flow I get maybe 1-2psi.
> 
> The valve on top is so I can bleed the air from inside the canister.



Just wondering how u made this conection is there a little piece of pipe in there or a type of fitting?


----------



## NickRummy

newbieplanter said:


> Just wondering how u made this conection is there a little piece of pipe in there or a type of fitting?http://s855.photobucket.com/user/ic...F-4170-8E99-EDAFBEDBD40E_zps6bjs4q8m.jpg.html


Yes, small piece of PVC between the two, primed and glued together.

I read more about using the pipe in the middle of a reactor as the inlet or output and it seems people use it either way. I guess I just need to figure out why the bubbles are so large and not mixing in that center tube.


----------



## NickRummy

Here's my issue. CO2 is running right around 2bps. CO2 is coming through the center pipe. CO2 isn't disolving and is just going right through the pipe and into the canister. 

Should I reverse input/ouput (like the canister labels suggest) so the water coming in goes into the large canister and out through the standpipe? Will the CO2 just gather in the top of the reactor? It seems like my bubbles are hige compared to others. 

Here's a video

http://youtu.be/wUvZ6SEvNU0


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## andyl9063

NickRummy said:


> Here's my issue. CO2 is running right around 2bps. CO2 is coming through the center pipe. CO2 isn't disolving and is just going right through the pipe and into the canister.
> 
> Should I reverse input/ouput (like the canister labels suggest) so the water coming in goes into the large canister and out through the standpipe? Will the CO2 just gather in the top of the reactor? It seems like my bubbles are hige compared to others.
> 
> Here's a video
> 
> http://youtu.be/wUvZ6SEvNU0


Yes you should .

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## xxxSHyXAxxx

yes switch the in and out. I also cut a course filter sponge to fit inside the canister and it's towards the bottom of the tube and it catches the small co2 bubbles and prevents them from exiting the reactor


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## NickRummy

Ok I was thinking all the bubbles would stay inside the standpipe with it being the inlet but I guess the flow is too strong and just pushed the bubbles right through before breaking them up. I'll get it switched around.


----------



## rezco

NickRummy said:


> Here's my setup. Tried adding a gauge at the top of the canister since I was reading a lot about internal pressure helping disperse CO2. Running with ball valve wide open on the marineland C220 it shows no pressure. If I cut the output back some I can get a flicker and if I cut back nearly all the flow I get maybe 1-2psi.
> 
> The valve on top is so I can bleed the air from inside the canister.


Nickrummy- this is consistent with physics of gas absorption. For example to double CO2 absorption rate by increasing pressure you have to double the pressure (which means 2X atmospheric or 14.7 PSI). There is no way to get even close to a few PSI with conventional aquarium equipment.

To double CO2 absorption better payback is in increasing gas-liquid surface area (ie double the area). Add bioballs or other media with large surface area-not the sintered, ceramic kind with tiny internal pores. Like this - designed for gas exchange:









Just my 2 cents.....:icon_bigg


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## NickRummy

rezco said:


> To double CO2 absorption better payback is in increasing gas-liquid surface area (ie double the area). Add bioballs or other media with large surface area-not the sintered, ceramic kind with tiny internal pores. Like this - designed for gas exchange:


I read a lot on this and it seems 50/50 on everyone's opinion. That's the only reason I haven't done anything. I don't see why it would hurt doing this though. Maybe for cleaning it could get messy? It is filtered water....


----------



## kman

I think the issue isn't necessarily increased absorption, it's flow. Adding the bio balls and similar _may_ help absorption, some, but it _will_ lower your flow.


----------



## rezco

The trickle column design is the standard in industry in absorbing CO2 - for example from power plant emissions.










It should also work in aquaria - provided its done right. Water should pour from the top and most of the media should be exposed to CO2 - not submerged or flooded. CO2 should be bubbling from the bottom - this could be done through a dip tube. A simple counter current setup.

If anyone's interested I can post a drawing or build one for the cost of parts.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

kman said:


> I think the issue isn't necessarily increased absorption, it's flow. Adding the bio balls and similar _may_ help absorption, some, but it _will_ lower your flow.


Lowered flow is the result of increased pressure, which helps absorption so it's not necessarily a bad thing.


----------



## kman

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Lowered flow is the result of increased pressure, which helps absorption so it's not necessarily a bad thing.


Definitely not a bad thing for co2 absorption but not necessarily a good thing for filtration, unless you have a lot of excess capacity to burn.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

kman said:


> Definitely not a bad thing for co2 absorption but not necessarily a good thing for filtration, unless you have a lot of excess capacity to burn.


That's why on larger tanks, the reactor should be powered by it's own powerhead, not the canister filter's.


----------



## kman

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> That's why on larger tanks, the reactor should be powered by it's own powerhead, not the canister filter's.


In theory, sure, but not everyone goes that route... and sometimes reactors are used on smaller tanks with lower flow canisters so the flow impediment is more noticeable.


----------



## Donutz

Phew! I finally finished reading this thread (took a few days in my spare time). I went out last night and got all the parts I need for this but almost everything I got was brass due the extremely limited selecti


----------



## Donutz

Fail! I can't seem to edit my post. 

I was saying that there is an extremely limited selection of PVC at my local big box stores, so almost everything I bought was brass. Aside from the weight, are there any issues with this? I have brass fittings feeding water to my refrigerator for drinking, so I'm assuming it is safe for my aquarium inhabitants too. Do I need to clean / treat the brass in any way before sending water through it to my aquarium?

Many thanks!


----------



## rezco

Donutz said:


> Fail! I can't seem to edit my post.
> 
> I was saying that there is an extremely limited selection of PVC at my local big box stores, so almost everything I bought was brass. Aside from the weight, are there any issues with this? I have brass fittings feeding water to my refrigerator for drinking, so I'm assuming it is safe for my aquarium inhabitants too. Do I need to clean / treat the brass in any way before sending water through it to my aquarium?
> 
> Many thanks!


Brass contains copper, which may be toxic to inverts such as shrimp. It is also somewhat easily corroded under acidic conditions and reacts with chlorides -although the acidity produce by CO2 is not enough to be meaningful.

The primary concern is invert and fish toxicity.If you keep doing regular water changes its fine.

You can find virtually any brass pipe fitting in plastic form (HDPE or PVC) online.


----------



## newbieplanter

rezco said:


> The trickle column design is the standard in industry in absorbing CO2 - for example from power plant emissions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should also work in aquaria - provided its done right. Water should pour from the top and most of the media should be exposed to CO2 - not submerged or flooded. CO2 should be bubbling from the bottom - this could be done through a dip tube. A simple counter current setup.
> 
> If anyone's interested I can post a drawing or build one for the cost of parts.


Im a bit interested in this idea to see how it works?


----------



## Donutz

I'll keep looking for PVC components. This is what I've ended up with so far...


----------



## newbieplanter

Donutz said:


> I'll keep looking for PVC components. This is what I've ended up with so far...


This is nice. Id hook it up an run it for now, till u wanna change the pieces out. I was gonna do mine like this an run it to a spray bar but i kinda nervious it wount have enough pressure to run the spray bar. Anyway thats a great set up if i ever seen one.


----------



## newbieplanter

Well i threw one of these on my tank just to see the out come an i guess its pretty cool. Over the past month my tank started getting worse with CO2 looking like "soda" in a cup, anyway i had a couple filters for a few months now an wanted to see how it goes diffushion an rha whole nine. So far so good the only difference i dint have which a few others had was lowering of the bubble count / output, its only been a day an it took 6hrs for my drop checkers to change a little bit. Thats already telling me that my CO2 either aint high enough or im loosing some along the lines somewhere. With my regular ceramic diffuser it only takes a few hrs i should have timed this to see HRS exact but i do know that by the time of shut down drop checkers are a light lime green almost yello an they stay like that till sometime between 12am-5:30am. My co2 comes on at about 7:30-8:00am lights come on at 9:00am an off at 7:30-8:00pm lights off about 9:00pm. Well on to my thrown together set up,
Another thing i liked was the plants pearling a lot which told me they were using CO2 at the time they were supposed to. Drawback to this setup is how it fills to the top with water, i feel like its gonna start leaking one night or day an my aquarium is right abouve me n my wifes bedroom so u can see how this would be bad. Also the fact that my house will be flooded from all 70gals from my tank, im gonna tighten everything up later today with all pvc parts or better looken ones anyway.


----------



## Josiah

Donutz said:


> I'll keep looking for PVC components. This is what I've ended up with so far...


How much did it all cost you so I have a good estimate. 

My Ista Max Mix started leaking. (I haven't touched it, the attachments just decided to leak). So I have been looking into something that is of better quality.


----------



## newbieplanter

rezco said:


> Brass contains copper, which may be toxic to inverts such as shrimp. It is also somewhat easily corroded under acidic conditions and reacts with chlorides -although the acidity produce by CO2 is not enough to be meaningful.
> 
> The primary concern is invert and fish toxicity.If you keep doing regular water changes its fine.
> 
> You can find virtually any brass pipe fitting in plastic form (HDPE or PVC) online.


Do u have a link to places where to get the PVC pieces/fittings?


----------



## m00se

http://www.usplastic.com/


----------



## kevinmichael77

So would I need a powerhead of I decided to use one of these or can I just run it off my eheim 2217 canister filter? My tank is a 33 gal, right now I'm just using a atomizer but the tank gets a lot of co2 bubbles.

Thanks!


----------



## newbieplanter

kevinmichael77 said:


> So would I need a powerhead of I decided to use one of these or can I just run it off my eheim 2217 canister filter? My tank is a 33 gal, right now I'm just using a atomizer but the tank gets a lot of co2 bubbles.
> 
> Thanks!


I got mine running on a cheap eheim knock off with a spray bar an its fine, that was my main concern too about a powerhead lol.


----------



## kevinmichael77

Did it inhibit the flow at all? Only thing is I'm not handy at all so not sure I can put it together properly


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## newbieplanter

kevinmichael77 said:


> Did it inhibit the flow at all? Only thing is I'm not handy at all so not sure I can put it together properly
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not that i can tell, as far as assembly its real easy. Do u have parts already?


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## kevinmichael77

No parts yet. Still wasn't sure if it's worth it or if I could build it.


----------



## FishStix

If I really don't have the time to build my own reactor, and if I did the water filter housing I was looking at is almost $90 as I wanted the large 20" one, would I just be better off to go with CarbonDoser EXT5000 (External Reactor 5000)? It going to run on 180 gallon system with 75 gallon sump, will also be setup using it own pump.

Thanks


----------



## rezco

*CO2 reactor -packed column*



newbieplanter said:


> Im a bit interested in this idea to see how it works?


Well it took a while but here is the plan:









The concept is similar to my build of a large scale bubble column prototype. In that design I discovered that an internal venturi is highly effective at dissolving Co2 into the water. With this packed column we can get the highest efficiency in a small package. The principle of efficiency is simply due to surface area - the media forms a huge surface area for gas-liquid contact. Excess CO2 is collected in the top of the tower and is recycled by the venturi. When CO2 is consumed the water level rises and more gas is allowed to be injected. In case of confusion I would like to clarify this is not a pressurized setup.

Here's how it works:

CO2 is injected through a T junction in the incoming water. An internal venturi/nozzle sprays water over a packed bed. The ideal packing is pond filter media pictured below. This allows a thin film of water to flow down and contact the CO2 gas over a large surface area. A layer of water on the bottom allows any entrained bubbles to float up, and clear water exits to the tank.

A side mounted water level float switch is crucial to the design. These can be picked up on a Ebay for around $10. This switch is triggered when the water level rises and energizes the CO2 relay allowing more gas to flow in. The gas pressure keeps the water level down and prevents the packed column from getting flooded.if the column is flooded then the gas-liquid surface area is reduced. That's why packing media in a conventional Cerges or Rex Griggs is usually of no benefit.

The column should be around 4"dia and 12-18"in length for 200-400 gallon tanks. Flow rate can be very slow (about 100 gpm) so you only need to divert part of the flow from a canister and not compromise the performance of your filtration system. Smaller designs can be made for smaller tanks (ie. a 3" x 12" reactor for a 100 gal tank)

Gas flow rate for my bubble column setup is about 2-3 bps for a 200 gal set up so I think that this should be similar or better in terms of CO2 consumption.

Since this reactor is self regulating there is no need for a bubble counter and a precision valve and regulator. This saves a lot of $$$ and headache in fine tuning your CO2 system. A lower cost single stage regulator will do fine. The amount of CO2 delivered to the tank will actually depend on the flow rate of water through the reactor. The faster the flow the more CO2 will be dissolved out and flow to the tank.

Construction:
Made from 4" PVC pipe, I would use clear PVC on the center section, the caps can be white PVC. For easy cleaning I would suggest using 4"dia threaded PVC fittings. Float switch can are be installed with a small hole drilled on side and an O ring+ silicone sealant. Some valves come with bulkhead fittings that provide a better seal. Total parts are about $75.

Packing media:









If anyone is interested in building one please let me know and I can help you get the parts together.


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## newbieplanter

kevinmichael77 said:


> No parts yet. Still wasn't sure if it's worth it or if I could build it.


I promise its worth it, i was in the same position your at now but when i had the chance to start buyin parts i gotem then it sat for awhile after that too in my fish room. Now that its hooked an runnin after the first few days of being scared to come home to a very big flood LOL im so glad i hooked it up. Serious!
Im always the first one whos like that thing is worth less but now i see after spending $50+ on all different methods i just wish i got this sooner $50 aint much but anyway i'll tell u this an noone else will, i personaly will buy yoyr set from u if it u dont get 100% diffusion in ya tank! Now thats a good deal i think?


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## kevinmichael77

Cool I appreciate the advice. After thinking about it I just don't know where I would put it. There's not much room on my outflow with the inline heater. Not sure where I'd put it.


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## newbieplanter

kevinmichael77 said:


> Cool I appreciate the advice. After thinking about it I just don't know where I would put it. There's not much room on my outflow with the inline heater. Not sure where I'd put it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Got a pic of ya set up? (Filter)


----------



## kevinmichael77

Here ya go.


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## newbieplanter

kevinmichael77 said:


> Here ya go.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im thinkin u can tuck it behind the CO2 bottle.


----------



## Bnizzle

Someone earlier in the thread asked about flipping the filter upside down and reversing the direction of the flow. Has anyone tried this? It seems like it would work even better as the co2 that builds up at the top would have more overly distributed flow breaking it all up as it came out the center pipe and event churned up the bubble at the top of the filter , rather than coming in at a single point off to the side leaving a space for a co 2 pocket to build up opposite the influent of the filter

Edit: just to be clear when I say top I am referring to the new top, which would technically be the bottom of the filter

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zackariah

I have been having trouble with my setup. Too much co2 is building up in the reactor. The picture below was taken after the co2 has been off for 13 hours and there is still that much trapped.  This means all night long co2 is going into my tank. Not to mention it seems like a waste of co2. I have several ideas on what I can try. I have thought of putting a valve on the system right before the pump to slow down flow. Another idea is filling the reactors with noodles and turning them backward so the co2 can escape to the tank. What I want to accomplish is 100% co2 absorbed before it goes to the tank. The tank is 70g. Here is a couple pictures. Any help would be great.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

zackariah said:


> I have been having trouble with my setup. Too much co2 is building up in the reactor. The picture below was taken after the co2 has been off for 13 hours and there is still that much trapped. This means all night long co2 is going into my tank. Not to mention it seems like a waste of co2. I have several ideas on what I can try. I have thought of putting a valve on the system right before the pump to slow down flow. Another idea is filling the reactors with noodles and turning them backward so the co2 can escape to the tank. What I want to accomplish is 100% co2 absorbed before it goes to the tank. The tank is 70g. Here is a couple pictures. Any help would be great.


I'm looking at the upside-down picture and what I notice is that the pump is placed AFTER the reactor? Is that correct? If so, you'll have negative pressure which actually encourages the gas gap. What you want is to have the pump before the reactor which increases internal pressure which helps dissolve CO2.


----------



## zackariah

^ You are correct. I will try that. I will still inject the co2 right before the pump to break up the bubbles before they hit the reactor.


----------



## m00se

Yea looks like to me that you have assembled it totally bass-ackward. You want to pressurize them not create a vacuum, which it looks like you're doing. And I suspect that you have the inlets and outlets backwards on the filters because otherwise all the pump would do is suck air (or in this case CO2). Am I correct? Nice setup overall though. You should be able to get 30 ppm out of it easily.


----------



## zackariah

^ not sure what you mean by inlets backward. The reactors are ran so the water goes in the side labeled in. Then it gets sued through the holes drilled in the pvc. It does suck air allot. Thanks for the heads up. Just out of curiosity why does it work better pressurized rather then under vacuum?


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

zackariah said:


> Just out of curiosity why does it work better pressurized rather then under vacuum?


Because CO2 dissolves poorly at atmospheric pressure because CO2 is much lighter than H2O. Increasing pressure is how you force it to dissolve.


----------



## m00se

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Because CO2 dissolves poorly at atmospheric pressure because CO2 is much lighter than H2O. Increasing pressure is how you force it to dissolve.



This is Solcielo's hypothesis but I honestly don't know if it makes a difference. The reason you push water instead of pull it is because you run the risk of starving the impeller on the pump causing cavitation which could damage it. It also reduces the amount of water the pump has at the inlet and as a consequence also reduces it's output.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

It's not a hypothesis, it's the laws of physics. There can be a significantly higher concentration of atmospheric CO2, but if there isn't enough pressure exerted on the H2O, CO2 will not dissolve as much. But if pressure is increased, CO2 will dissolve much more readily.


----------



## m00se

Yes no argument there, not one iota. It just doesn't seem that water traveling through a 1/2"-3/4" pipe at 2-4 gpm with a little to no back pressure is going to make a whole hill of beans of difference in the solubility of the CO2. That's all I'm saying ;-)

Think of water flowing through an open faucet and you standing a few feet upstream with a hole in the pipe blowing air into it through a straw. That's essentially all you're doing here. The pressure these pumps are operating at is pretty trivial in the CO2 world. Want to get some CO2 in your water? Get a carbonator off an old soda fountain.


----------



## newbieplanter

I was wondering if i added a surface skimmer to the intake if my filter would that affect this in anyway?


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

m00se said:


> Yes no argument there, not one iota. It just doesn't seem that water traveling through a 1/2"-3/4" pipe at 2-4 gpm with a little to no back pressure is going to make a whole hill of beans of difference in the solubility of the CO2. That's all I'm saying ;-)
> 
> Think of water flowing through an open faucet and you standing a few feet upstream with a hole in the pipe blowing air into it through a straw. That's essentially all you're doing here. The pressure these pumps are operating at is pretty trivial in the CO2 world. Want to get some CO2 in your water? Get a carbonator off an old soda fountain.


Even a small amount of pressure would make it dissolve quicker. The weight of water in a 1/2 -3/4" wide and 3-4 foot long tube doesn't weigh much, but any little bit of pressure helps. This is why a significantly more powerful pump on even a small tank can be beneficial as the flow can be easily restricted, increasing pressure.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

newbieplanter said:


> I was wondering if i added a surface skimmer to the intake if my filter would that affect this in anyway?


What do you mean?


----------



## evilsway

Hey guys, going to be assembling one of these this weekend and... im getting conflicting info from the web. Several videos on youtube show the housing being plumbed output of pump, to output of housing, input of housing becomes the return to the tank. this is counter intuitive to me. Am i safe to assume that is incorrect and it SHOULD be pump out, to housing in, housing output becomes return line? it just seems logical that water should exit the housing through the center pipe.


----------



## gus6464

So do you guys have your reactors on the intake or return side of your canisters? I have ran mine both ways and can't really notice a difference. Filter flow increased though when the reactor was placed before.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

evilsway said:


> Hey guys, going to be assembling one of these this weekend and... im getting conflicting info from the web. Several videos on youtube show the housing being plumbed output of pump, to output of housing, input of housing becomes the return to the tank. this is counter intuitive to me. Am i safe to assume that is incorrect and it SHOULD be pump out, to housing in, housing output becomes return line? it just seems logical that water should exit the housing through the center pipe.


It should be run the way it's normally used, not the opposite.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

gus6464 said:


> So do you guys have your reactors on the intake or return side of your canisters? I have ran mine both ways and can't really notice a difference. Filter flow increased though when the reactor was placed before.


It should be placed after the pump to increase pressure. Placed before can create a vacuum.


----------



## FishStix

I purchased a 20" x 4.5" clear filer housing with 3/4 ports, arrived last week, this this is massive. It going on a 180 gallon tank with 75 gallon sump. Do you think it overkill and I should return it and go with 10" one? Just wondering before I set it up.

Thanks


----------



## newbieplanter

Havin a. Bit of trouble with my reactor, for some reason the water doesnt stay full like how it did in the begining when i first set it up? I was scared it was gonna some how over flow or burst anyway nothin like that happend. When the reacter water goes low i turn it upside down an the water fills back up an after a few hrs or so the water gets low again las night to today the water got the lowest ive seen maybe about 2" left in tha reacter all else seemed fine. Anyone have an idea what this could be?
First hooked up!
Running Day 1.
How i found it this morning.
A couple seconds after i tipped it upside down.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

The gas is building up which indicates either too much injection or not enough dissolution. What you can do is increase backpressure by restriction outflow. When you place the reactor so high, there is very little backpressure. Lowering it will increase head height which will increase backpressure.


----------



## zalinth

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> The gas is building up which indicates either too much injection or not enough dissolution. What you can do is increase backpressure by restriction outflow. When you place the reactor so high, there is very little backpressure. Lowering it will increase head height which will increase backpressure.


Hey thanks for this suggestion. I just got done building mine and was testing it in the bath tub to make sure it didn't leak and noticed after about 20 mins it sounded like it was getting louder(Can't find a clear one in town). So I would re-bleed it and it would be good for another 20mins. 

After reading your suggestion I took the output hose and duck taped it to the shower wall :icon_lol: and walked away. After about an hour I checked on it again and no gas build up. :smile:


----------



## scapegoat

if that is gas build up from the co2... turn down the co2. I don't think I've ever seen that much co2 build up before, wow


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

zalinth said:


> Hey thanks for this suggestion. I just got done building mine and was testing it in the bath tub to make sure it didn't leak and noticed after about 20 mins it sounded like it was getting louder(Can't find a clear one in town). So I would re-bleed it and it would be good for another 20mins.
> 
> After reading your suggestion I took the output hose and duck taped it to the shower wall :icon_lol: and walked away. After about an hour I checked on it again and no gas build up. :smile:


I'm glad that worked for you. A little bit of back pressure increases dissolution rates significantly.


----------



## FishStix

FishStix said:


> I purchased a 20" x 4.5" clear filer housing with 3/4 ports, arrived last week, this this is massive. It going on a 180 gallon tank with 75 gallon sump. Do you think it overkill and I should return it and go with 10" one? Just wondering before I set it up.
> 
> Thanks


Anyone have any thoughts on this canister I bought for my reactor? Do you guys think it too large and I should get one that smaller?

Thanks


----------



## scapegoat

FishStix said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on this canister I bought for my reactor? Do you guys think it too large and I should get one that smaller?
> 
> Thanks


I have a similar sized blue colored one for my 125g w/ 40g sump. I'm still dialing the thing in... I think two may be better than one. I'm not sure if my flow rate is too high, but I still get a lot of bubbles. 

I have the co2 line ending in front of the return pump, with an air stone attached. my canister is filled with some sort of pond sponge, it's not very dense, and capped with some quilt batting. still a ton of bubbles... i've put a ball valve on the outlet of the canister to cut down on flow and increase pressure... still a ton of bubbles. I'm debating on purchasing a second to increase the amount of time the co2 spends suspended in the water.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

FishStix said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on this canister I bought for my reactor? Do you guys think it too large and I should get one that smaller?
> 
> Thanks


Some people use the 20" one with good results. It's hard to go wrong with bigger. If your concern is about overkill, it may be. Or not. Like scapegoat mentioned, various factors affect dissolution and bubbles may pop out.

One thing to note about gas bubbles in water is that at a certain point, the water immediately surrounding the bubble becomes super-saturated and can't absorb any more CO2. When this happens, the gas can no longer dissolve. This may be the issue scapegoat is referring to, though it will be difficult without knowing the exact setup.

Scapegoat, what you describe sounds like the pump is chopping up the bubbles before it enters the filter housing, is that correct?


----------



## FishStix

scapegoat said:


> I have a similar sized blue colored one for my 125g w/ 40g sump. I'm still dialing the thing in... I think two may be better than one. I'm not sure if my flow rate is too high, but I still get a lot of bubbles.
> 
> I have the co2 line ending in front of the return pump, with an air stone attached. my canister is filled with some sort of pond sponge, it's not very dense, and capped with some quilt batting. still a ton of bubbles... i've put a ball valve on the outlet of the canister to cut down on flow and increase pressure... still a ton of bubbles. I'm debating on purchasing a second to increase the amount of time the co2 spends suspended in the water.


Do you have the reactor on it own pump? I order a Mag7 pump with Fractioning Impeller just for CO2 reactor, as some others suggested so I am very interested to see how this works. I hope to start setting up my tank in a few weeks.

Thanks for info.


----------



## scapegoat

FishStix said:


> Do you have the reactor on it own pump? I order a Mag7 pump with Fractioning Impeller just for CO2 reactor, as some others suggested so I am very interested to see how this works. I hope to start setting up my tank in a few weeks.
> 
> Thanks for info.


I don't. I have it inline with the whole system. It would probably do better on it's own, slower, pump. The problem I'm seeing is how to plumb it up well. The benefit of it being inline with the sump is that it gets cleaned water. I have a canister I'm not using though... so I could play around with that for the time being.


----------



## evilsway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMSWx7xAe78


Hey guys, got mine built. Big thanks to Everyone.


----------



## bsantucci

I tried and failed miserably at this tonight. Question for you all, is a fluval 406 strong enough to run with a cerges reactor? I bought this as the housing. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007VZ2O2O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

When I hooked it all up there was very little flow coming from my return to the tank. 1/2" pvc is what fits the inside of the housing.

So did I do something wrong or is the fluval 406 just not enough to run this? Nothing fancy for the hookups, just two brass barb fittings with the filter hoses on them and one tee on the input line to run the co2.


----------



## IiScaPeJuNkiEiI

hahaha... After looking closer I just realized I have mine hooked up backwards... *ugh*

No wonder why I still have bubbles in the tank...sheesh


----------



## bsantucci

Those using the home depot GE SmartWater housing, what size PVC did you use for the inside? I got a 1" piece and it slides in, but I don't feel it's tight enough to not fall out. Is there a coupler than can take up the extra millimeter or so or did you just use an aquarium safe epoxy?


----------



## theknight

*CO2 Regulator Pressure*

Just a quick question, those with DIY water filter cerges, what pressure do you set your CO2 regulator output?


----------



## sketch804

bsantucci said:


> I tried and failed miserably at this tonight. Question for you all, is a fluval 406 strong enough to run with a cerges reactor? I bought this as the housing. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007VZ2O2O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> When I hooked it all up there was very little flow coming from my return to the tank. 1/2" pvc is what fits the inside of the housing.
> 
> So did I do something wrong or is the fluval 406 just not enough to run this? Nothing fancy for the hookups, just two brass barb fittings with the filter hoses on them and one tee on the input line to run the co2.



I use a fluval 405 to run my reactor, works great when for its good, once the filter clogges up then diffusion isn't as great, but I have no complaints. The only difference I do is run a 3/4" PVC in my housing. Got mine at HD or Lowes. Might just be to small of a pipe, reason for the lower flow rates. The more 90' bends you have in your pipe the less floor you will receive in the end. Or the opening to the housing from the inflow might be too narrow. Just a thought. Good luck to ya!

Bump:


theknight said:


> Just a quick question, those with DIY water filter cerges, what pressure do you set your CO2 regulator output?



Got mine set at 25psi. Just my preference.

Bump:


bsantucci said:


> Those using the home depot GE SmartWater housing, what size PVC did you use for the inside? I got a 1" piece and it slides in, but I don't feel it's tight enough to not fall out. Is there a coupler than can take up the extra millimeter or so or did you just use an aquarium safe epoxy?


I believe the one I have in there is 3/4", I may be wrong, it's been years since I set it up. I was able to get it to slide in the outflow hole without glue or anything else. But in a bind, PVC glue, just know it will not ever come off after that, not the you would need to.


----------



## bsantucci

sketch804 said:


> I use a fluval 405 to run my reactor, works great when for its good, once the filter clogges up then diffusion isn't as great, but I have no complaints. The only difference I do is run a 3/4" PVC in my housing. Got mine at HD or Lowes. Might just be to small of a pipe, reason for the lower flow rates. The more 90' bends you have in your pipe the less floor you will receive in the end. Or the opening to the housing from the inflow might be too narrow. Just a thought. Good luck to ya!
> 
> Bump:
> 
> 
> Got mine set at 25psi. Just my preference.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> I believe the one I have in there is 3/4", I may be wrong, it's been years since I set it up. I was able to get it to slide in the outflow hole without glue or anything else. But in a bind, PVC glue, just know it will not ever come off after that, not the you would need to.


Thanks for the reply. 3/4 was too small, but 1 inch was a tad big. I took my heat gun last night and just heated the PVC and rolled the sides inward. This gave me a nice tight seal. I'll be hooking it up tonight. I'm hoping to run a lower PSI than 25 though, I thought you can run much lower with these than in-line diffusers? I'll have to play with mine a bit once running.

I don't have any elbows or bends, straight shots through the unit. I think my problem was the 1/2" pipe originally plus the barbs I used went down to 5/8. I'm going with 3/4 barbs this time, make sure I have no restriction.


----------



## sketch804

bsantucci said:


> Thanks for the reply. 3/4 was too small, but 1 inch was a tad big. I took my heat gun last night and just heated the PVC and rolled the sides inward. This gave me a nice tight seal. I'll be hooking it up tonight. I'm hoping to run a lower PSI than 25 though, I thought you can run much lower with these than in-line diffusers? I'll have to play with mine a bit once running.
> 
> I don't have any elbows or bends, straight shots through the unit. I think my problem was the 1/2" pipe originally plus the barbs I used went down to 5/8. I'm going with 3/4 barbs this time, make sure I have no restriction.


Maybe it was 5/8" it's been to long since I did that, but your idea works good also, done that a few times on other aquariums. Also forgot to say, I have no sponges or anything in my reactor so the flow can reach max. 
Now for psi, can't really explain it but I just use 25 because I seem to have less back pressure pushing against the co2, even with 2 check valves. The number to isn't as important as how well it diffuses. Hope it works out well!


----------



## AlanLe

Just a funny thought, what if you place a ceramic diffuser inside the reactor? will this increase the dissolving rate?


----------



## micca

_8/21/2015 UPDATE - I've received much positive feedback for this post and it's sincerely appreciated. I'm happy to hear it has helped a lot of fellow aquarists. I've made some edits based on the useful info provided by brains613 on 8/8/2015 (page 56 / post #831). I'll continue to make edits as needed, so please send me a PM or add a new reply to this thread and I'll adjust this post accordingly (no need to include a full quote of my post, though a small quote would be beneficial to all). All edits are noted throughout in italics._

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I built one of these a few weeks back after much research within this thread and elsewhere. The process would have been a lot easier if the pictures from the original post were still available and if the exact parts were outlined in one spot. I read a bunch of requests for others looking for this information, so if you happen to be one of them, I hope you find this post helpful.

I originally purchased the Whirlpool filter housing from Lowes and it leaked like crazy. The one I had didn't come with an O-ring. I'm unsure if it was missing from the box or if the unit simply doesn't come with one. _---- 8/21/2015 UPDATE - The Whirlpool unit from Lowes does include an O-ring, so I'm sure this unit will work fine as long as the O-ring is included.----_ Nonetheless, I returned that unit and got the GE one from Home Depot. It does include an O-ring and hasn't leaked whatsoever. I recommend you use the GE one based on this. The pictures below include the Whirlpool unit, but everything with the GE unit is exactly the same for all intents and purposes. All parts listed below were purchased from Lowes with the exception of the filter housing. The associated item numbers and descriptions are from Lowes. You can skip the shutoff ball valves if you want, but it's probably best to include them. You may need additional tubing for the outflow of the reactor to the tank. I recommend Watts braided vinyl tubing since non-braided may kink and cause problems with flow.




























--------------------------------------------
*A.*
_*Water Filter Housing*_

At the time of this writing, here are the two most popular opaque water filter housing options that are available from Home Depot and Lowes. Based on my experience as noted above, I recommend you purchase the GE unit from Home Depot. _---- 8/21/2015 UPDATE - The Whirlpool unit from Lowes does include an O-ring, so I'm sure this unit will work fine as long as the O-ring is included.----_

Available at Home Depot:
*GE 3/4 in. Inlet Whole House Water Filtration System*
Model Number: GXWH04F
Store SKU Number: 319246
Internet Number: 100471282

Available at Lowes:
*Whirlpool Opaque Whole-House Pre-Filtration Housing*
Model Number: WHKF-DWH
Item Number: 89374

--------------------------------------------
*All other components (available at Lowes):*
______________________
*B.*
Description: *Genova 1/2-in x 3/4-in Insert Male Adapter*
Item Number: 54137
Quantity: 2

Note: The 3/4" insert size is correct, but you may need a different hose adapter size based on the diameter of your filter's hose. The 1/2" hose adapter size fits well for my Eheim 2217.

______________________
*C.*
Description: *American Valve 3/4-in PVC Sch 40 Female In-Line Ball Valve*
Item Number: 21482
Quantity: 2

Note: You can exclude these if you don't want to use them. They're used as shutoff valves for easy removal of the filter housing.

______________________
*D.*
Description: *Orbit 6-in Cut-Off Riser (3/4-in x 3/4-in)*
Item Number: 194532
Quantity: 3

Note: Only one of these is needed if you exclude the above shutoff valves. These need to be cut if you want to save space in between the necessary components for which they're used. Only one end can be cut, so make sure you cut the correct end. I cut 4 of the adapters off instead of 5 in order to retain a little bit of space once put together. Please view the picture to see the end result.

______________________
*E.*
Description: *LASCO 3/4-in Dia PVC Sch 40 Tee*
Item Number: 317762
Quantity: 1

______________________
*F.*
Description: *Watts 3/16-in x 1/4-in Brass Barb Fitting*
Item Number: 69301
Quantity: 1

Note: This was a somewhat tight fit within its accompanying female adapter (#90379 - listed directly below), though both pieces come from the same manufacturer and the sizes are correct. The tight fit hasn't been a problem.

_---- 8/21/2015 UPDATE - This is another possible part to use. Its counterpart adapter (#645891) is included in the next update directly below:
Description: *BrassCraft 3/16-in x 1/4-in Barbed Adapter Fitting*
Item Number: 645658
Quantity: 1
----_
______________________
*G.*
Description: *Watts 1/2-in x 1/4-in Brass Pipe Fitting*
Item Number: 90379
Quantity: 1

_---- 8/21/2015 UPDATE - This is another possible part to use. Its counterpart (#645658) is included in the previous update directly above:
Description: *BrassCraft 1/2-in x 1/4-in Threaded Bushing Fitting*
Item Number: 645891
Quantity: 1
----_
______________________
*H.*
Description: *LASCO 3/4-in Dia x 1/2-in Dia PVC Sch 40 Bushing*
Item Number: 51275
Quantity: 1

______________________
*I.*
Description: *Silver-Line Plastics 1/2-in x 2-ft 125-PSI Plastic Coil Pipe*
Item Number: 518528
Quantity: 1

Note: This tube needs to be cut and I cut it down to 9". This fits perfectly inside the available attachment within the cover of the filter housing without the need to use any adhesive.

--------------------------------------------
_*Miscellaneous components (available at Lowes):*_
______________________
Description: *Blue Hawk 43-ft Plumber's Tape*
Item Number: 456833
Quantity: 1

Note: Use this on all threads before attaching each component.

______________________
Description: *Murray 2-Pack 7/16-in - 29/32-in Dia Stainless Steel Adjustable Clamps*
Item Number: 47670
Quantity: 1 (2 per pack)

Note: These clamps are used where the hoses attach to the reactor.


----------



## kman

Well done! I wish this list had been available when I was collecting parts to build one myself!



micca said:


> I built one of these a few weeks back after much research within this thread and elsewhere. The process would have been a lot easier if the pictures from the original post were still available and if the exact parts were outlined in one spot. I read a bunch of requests for others looking for this information, so if you happen to be one of them, I hope you find this post helpful.


----------



## Raul-7

So if increased pressure is better, what pumps do you recommend? Eheim Compact series? I'd like to avoid Mags or QuietOne.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Raul-7 said:


> So if increased pressure is better, what pumps do you recommend? Eheim Compact series? I'd like to avoid Mags or QuietOne.


There are a couple of ways to increase pressure.
1. increasing head height
2. restricting outflow

Any pump would work but ideally, it would have high flow rating. Also, increasing reactor volume may help, but I'm not sure if it will. Reasoning is: more volume = higher water weight = more pressure.


----------



## flight50

So far with my experience of testing out my system, it seems that a bypass line that tees or wyes off prior to the reactor, has more benefits than using ball valves to restrict flow. A bypass also appears to dismiss the need for a purge button as excess air doesn't seem to enter the reactor. In a way, the bypass restricts flow to the reactor in a sense that half the flow of water can divert a different path which allows for less flow needing flow thru the reactor. More is not always better. IMO, it seems that increased pressure creates more bubbles entering the camber of the reactor. This pressure will prematurely push some CO2 thru before it is dissolved. As I was testing out my system I got a lot of bubbles until I opened my bypass. All the unnecessary flow tried to push thru the reactor until the bypass split the load of flow. I have a DC pump, in order to get rid of the bubbles , I had to ramp down the flow, or open the bypass.


----------



## andyl9063

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> There are a couple of ways to increase pressure.
> 1. increasing head height
> 2. restricting outflow
> 
> Any pump would work but ideally, it would have high flow rating. Also, increasing reactor volume may help, but I'm not sure if it will. Reasoning is: more volume = higher water weight = more pressure.


for #2, you're just simply reducing the outflow by adjusting the ball valve to decrease water going out of reactor?
I'm having issues with water being full in the reactor and then 1/4 full later when co2 period is off.


----------



## chinaboy1021

So the reactor is 1/4 full of water when your co2 turns off? What/?????????


----------



## andyl9063

chinaboy1021 said:


> So the reactor is 1/4 full of water when your co2 turns off? What/?????????


yea... i think it's because of so much co2 inside the reactor...if I purge it, it goes back to full, but then it'll drop again. I might have to adjust output via ball valve.


----------



## chinaboy1021

So you mean the reactor is 1/4 full by the time you want your co2 to be off (timed regulator/solenoid).

What pump/filter are you using?? How big is the water housing? What is your BPS??


----------



## andyl9063

chinaboy1021 said:


> So you mean the reactor is 1/4 full by the time you want your co2 to be off (timed regulator/solenoid).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What pump/filter are you using?? How big is the water housing? What is your BPS??


not quite since i'm still working out my co2 rate... I haven't gotten it to where I want yet. I set it to come on 1 hour before/after lights. After period, it's 1/4 full.
I'm using a 200gph pump, 20", you can't count bps for a 210 Gallon.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

andyl9063 said:


> for #2, you're just simply reducing the outflow by adjusting the ball valve to decrease water going out of reactor?
> I'm having issues with water being full in the reactor and then 1/4 full later when co2 period is off.


Yes, but it must be the outlet of the reactor. It's easier just to increase head height: the water flowing downward applies pressure to the reactor; the weight of the water flowing upward also apples pressure.


----------



## andyl9063

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Yes, but it must be the outlet of the reactor. It's easier just to increase head height: the water flowing downward applies pressure to the reactor; the weight of the water flowing upward also apples pressure.


Yeah, that's not possible. But I think I solved it by closing the output ball valve, but not all the way. This increased the pressure and the water in the reactor seem to stay full now. 
Thanks.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

andyl9063 said:


> Yeah, that's not possible. But I think I solved it by closing the output ball valve, but not all the way. This increased the pressure and the water in the reactor seem to stay full now.
> Thanks.


You're welcome.roud:


----------



## andyl9063

so guys, I have the cerges finally working as expected. There's no more air bubbles at the top after I closed the ball valve on the output by 80%. I have the regulator set to 20psi. I turn on co2 and cerges at exactly the same time. The cerges shuts off at 12am, co2 shuts off at 10pm, no issues with this. 
Now, I need to increase co2 more to reach optimal levels in tank. Is it just a matter of increasing co2 now via solenoid?

Dialing in co2 is more complicated than I thought. Especially for a large tank.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Confused. Why is the reactor shutting off... Now I'm really confused. Makes no sense.
12pm or am?
Regulator pressure is irrelevant. How much is added is.
The reactor is on its own pump, right?
Still very confused.


----------



## andyl9063

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Confused. Why is the reactor shutting off... Now I'm really confused. Makes no sense.
> 12pm or am?
> Regulator pressure is irrelevant. How much is added is.
> The reactor is on its own pump, right?
> Still very confused.


yes, I meant to say am. Reactor is on its own pump. I bump up the bps last night and notice 1.5 inch of air space at the top now. I wonder if it's not gassing off fast enough.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Yeah, it's not dissolving fast enough. You may need to increase pressure even more.


----------



## andyl9063

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Yeah, it's not dissolving fast enough. You may need to increase pressure even more.


i can try to close the ball valve even more. My question is, at what point do you know if you close the ball valve so much that it can't dissolve co2? I have the output open at 10%, i notice water splash into cerges. If i close it further, maybe at 5%, i can see slow water falling down into cerges. Does co2 dissolution matter how much water is going into cerges and output?
This would increase pressure but decrease output flow. Therefore, decreasing dissolve co2 levels in tank since flow is so slow?

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it correctly.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Yeah, that's one of the problems with only restricting flow on the outlet since that's the only means to increase pressure. At a certain point, the lack of flow means less water is exposed to CO2 so it's less efficient. That's why head height helps tremendously because the force of the water moving downward and the weight of the head height adds a lot of pressure without the need to restrict flow.


----------



## alpha1172

So i built my cerges and its working fine, but after reading the last couple pages of this thread i have a few questions. 

How does the co2 pressure not matter? It seems like a popular solution to having a big bubble of co2 in the reactor is to attempt to increase the water pressure in the reactor. Which is by the way 1 psi for every 27.74 inches of head height. 

Wouldn't decreasing the co2 pressure accomplish the same thing? I would think keeping the co2 just above the water pressure in the reactor would be the best setup.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Pressure from the regulator is different and independent from reactor pressure. Adjusting working pressure does not affect how it dissolves in the reactor.


----------



## alpha1172

I dont really understand that logic but oh well. 

adding more head pressure vs closing the outlet valve would decrease the flow the same amount because you are doing the exact same thing. adding back pressure to the pump. It doesn't matter how the pressure is created the end results are the same 

How much you have to close a valve to increase back pressure varies on the valve as each type has different flow characteristics. The common ball valve that most people use at 80%closed is only letting ~2-4% of total flow through.


i have everything needed, except a flow meter, to test out various situations. It should be interesting. But it will have to wait untill i get back from work. so this summer


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Okay, let me try to explain again:
Working pressure is just how much force gas is pushed through the regulator. It does not affect the reactor pressure in any way at all.

Head height: the force of the water _FLOWING DOWN_ applies pressure to the reactor. The weight of the water _FLOWING UP_ also applies pressure to the reactor. This is why head height is much more effective than restricting flow alone. Head height does not restrict flow since water will equalize.


----------



## coolnick

So by increasing head height you are saying that the reactor should be mounted at a higher location?


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

It should be mounted as low as possible.

v ^
| |
| | head height
| |
[x] reactor as low as possible


----------



## coolnick

So just pump the water up as high as you need it, do a U turn and come back down to the reactor? 

Or come out of the reactor, go as high as necessary, then U turn back down? 

My reactor is a closed loop and feeds the inlet of my return pump.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Huh? I'm confused.

The water coming down from the top of the tank is the downward flow. Upward flow is the return tube. You want the pump to be before the reactor since this drives pressure into the reactor.

Pump
in.........out
V............^
||...........||
||...........||
||...........||
||...........||
_________
[REACTOR ]
[0 O o O o ]
[0 O o O o ]
[0 O o O o ]
[0 O o O o ]
[0 O o O o ]
[0 O o O o ]
[0 O o O o ]


The pump can be the canister filter's pump. Anyway, you should see that water weight is the main reason why there is pressure inside the reactor. If water is pushed before the reactor, this increases pressure. If, however, it is pulled by placing it on the outlet of the reactor, this decreases pressure.


----------



## coolnick

Okay, I was confused about how you create head on a closed loop reactor in a sump. I have a pump that feeds my reactor, then the flow out of the reactor dumps out right in front of the inlet for my return pump. What you are describing works if the feed for your reactor is coming right out of the display tank. 

Are there any good ways for people like me with a sump to increase the pressure in the reactor?


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

I have no experience with a sump.

Is your sump sealed? If it is, then you may not need a reactor, just add CO2 directly into the sump. The CO2 gas will apply pressure into the sump as long as it is sealed.


----------



## andyl9063

rdmustang1 said:


> I remember being in your boat. It seems confusing but this thing really is stupid simple to put together.
> 
> The easiest setup is to put a Tee to inject the CO2 into the return water line. Water goes into the filter housing and down the outside of the pipe. As water gets pushed down it dissolves the CO2. When CO2 dissolves into the water it can flow
> 
> No worries.


Hey I got a question about your cerges. How do you have it plumb? What kind of pump and how does Co2 enter? I'm having issues getting mine to work right.


----------



## ltb420

coolnick said:


> Okay, I was confused about how you create head on a closed loop reactor in a sump. I have a pump that feeds my reactor, then the flow out of the reactor dumps out right in front of the inlet for my return pump. What you are describing works if the feed for your reactor is coming right out of the display tank.
> 
> Are there any good ways for people like me with a sump to increase the pressure in the reactor?



If you size the reactor appropriately you get the same effect with the lower pressure but added contact time. My set up runs just like yours but I have a larger reactor to make up for that. You could also use a larger pump then throttle the out flow from the reactor to create some back pressure.


----------



## andyl9063

I need some help with this cerges. I'm ready to give up on it. I wish I was pumping only 8 bps. This is on a 240 gallon total volume.
I got a 20" in housing. I have it plumb where the co2 water enters the housing wall, travels down and out via long pvc tube. I also reverse it, but couldn't get it to work right because not all the bubbles are dissolving. 
I had it the first way and it works fine. The big problem is I have to purge it everyday and often times, the housing will run out of water before the co2 period ends....
1. The pump is around 200gph, should I go with a stronger pump like 1000gph? 
2. Is it better to increase dwell time on before reactor or after? I got a 6 ft tube that I can extend either way to increase dwell time.
3. Should I increase tubing size to match with pump? I've been using the eheim 12/16mm.
It's similar to this guy's problem:


----------



## ltb420

andyl9063 said:


> I need some help with this cerges. I'm ready to give up on it. I wish I was pumping only 8 bps. This is on a 240 gallon total volume.
> I got a 20" in housing. I have it plumb where the co2 water enters the housing wall, travels down and out via long pvc tube. I also reverse it, but couldn't get it to work right because not all the bubbles are dissolving.
> I had it the first way and it works fine. The big problem is I have to purge it everyday and often times, the housing will run out of water before the co2 period ends....
> 1. The pump is around 200gph, should I go with a stronger pump like 1000gph?
> 2. Is it better to increase dwell time on before reactor or after? I got a 6 ft tube that I can extend either way to increase dwell time.
> 3. Should I increase tubing size to match with pump? I've been using the eheim 12/16mm.
> It's similar to this guy's problem:



I run a stronger pump maybe 500+ just use a ball valve to throttle it down after the reactor. 

I would increase dwell time before the reactor but I add CO2 via a needle wheel pump. If you are adding CO2 directly to the reactor increase dwell time after the reactor. 

Increasing the tubing going to the reactor and leaving the more restrictive tubing exiting the reactor will also add a bit of back pressure increasing the dissolution rate.


----------



## andyl9063

ltb420 said:


> I run a stronger pump maybe 500+ just use a ball valve to throttle it down after the reactor.
> 
> I would increase dwell time before the reactor but I add CO2 via a needle wheel pump. If you are adding CO2 directly to the reactor increase dwell time after the reactor.
> 
> Increasing the tubing going to the reactor and leaving the more restrictive tubing exiting the reactor will also add a bit of back pressure increasing the dissolution rate.


Yeah I had it running via NW with 200gph pump. I suppose I'll try the bigger pump.


----------



## Kathyy

I am running a Rio 2500 on a 20" housing with 3/4" plumbing sitting in the sump and it works perfectly, pH drop is nice and quick, don't get bubbles filling up the reactor at better than 10bps. This is a 180+40 gallon system and with the plumbing as straight forward as possible getting maybe 300gph through the 780gph rated pump. The reactor return is parallel with the main returns which ought to help CO2 mix better.

Turn off the gas and time how long it takes to empty the reactor and then turn off the gas that much earlier in the day if you are happy with the pH drop you are getting. I cannot imagine that pump is doing a good job for such a large system. How long does it take for the pH to drop once gas is on? I don't know what 200gph pump you have but a Rio 800 that is rated at 211gph would be getting all of 60gph into a tank at 4' head and that isn't counting any plumbing loss.


----------



## andyl9063

Kathyy said:


> I am running a Rio 2500 on a 20" housing with 3/4" plumbing sitting in the sump and it works perfectly, pH drop is nice and quick, don't get bubbles filling up the reactor at better than 10bps. This is a 180+40 gallon system and with the plumbing as straight forward as possible getting maybe 300gph through the 780gph rated pump. The reactor return is parallel with the main returns which ought to help CO2 mix better.
> 
> Turn off the gas and time how long it takes to empty the reactor and then turn off the gas that much earlier in the day if you are happy with the pH drop you are getting. I cannot imagine that pump is doing a good job for such a large system. How long does it take for the pH to drop once gas is on? I don't know what 200gph pump you have but a Rio 800 that is rated at 211gph would be getting all of 60gph into a tank at 4' head and that isn't counting any plumbing loss.


thanks for chiming in. Do you know how much co2 you're pumping? How much of a ph drop in your tank? I was aiming for 1 point drop in ph. It took about 2 to 3 hours. What kind of 3/4 tubing are you using? So you're using 3/4 fittings on the reactor as well?


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Andy, how is the entire setup set up? Where is the pump, how is it plumbed, where in the inlet/outlet of the tank... a picture could help.


----------



## andyl9063

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Andy, how is the entire setup set up? Where is the pump, how is it plumbed, where in the inlet/outlet of the tank... a picture could help.


co2 enters needle wheel pump rated at 200gph. NW pump straight to cerge reactor via 12/16mm eheim tubing, co2 water travel down 20" reactor housing, then up pvc tube and exit via 12/16 eheim tubing. Pump is before reactor. It is plumb according to flow on reactor (travel down housing then out via pvc tube).


----------



## ltb420

As stated above the pump is probably your weak point. With a larger pump the gas bubble is dissolved rather quickly once the CO2 is shut off so it may solve both issues. Going to 3/4 tubing will not hurt either. I use the lee's tubing.


----------



## andyl9063

How do you guys feel about a 2000 gph pump? My sump pump is 2000 gph with probably 6 feet of head. I hate to have so many devices inside the sump along with power wastage.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

How tall is the head height?


----------



## andyl9063

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> How tall is the head height?


The tank is 6 ft tall. Probably a few more feet for additional piping if running straight through reactor. 
I wonder if there's any downsize to this.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

You'll probably need to restrict the outflow. Also, 1/2" tubing is really small. Not a lot of water volume means less pressure.


----------



## andyl9063

I'll just stick with 1000 gph. Increase tubing size to 1 inch. We shall see what happens.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

Can you take a picture of the entire setup?


----------



## ltb420

The 2000 GPH may be too much flow for your 4" reactor. The 1000 GPH may be a better option.


----------



## andyl9063

ltb420 said:


> The 2000 GPH may be too much flow for your 4" reactor. The 1000 GPH may be a better option.


i have a 20" btw.

So I upgraded tubing and fittings to 3/4 on input side of reactor. Hook it to quietone 4000 via 10 ft tubing with 991 gph. I left the eheim tubing on output side of reactor. The flow is tremendous and I had to dial it down using ball valve. I'm going to test co2 today since it got late last night.

I think the pressure is going to be really good.


----------



## ltb420

It's only 4"wide, too much flow and all the bubbles just run right through the reactor. It sounds like your headed in the right direction, now just playing with the ball valve to get just the right back pressure.


----------



## andyl9063

ltb420 said:


> It's only 4"wide, too much flow and all the bubbles just run right through the reactor. It sounds like your headed in the right direction, now just playing with the ball valve to get just the right back pressure.


oh, i didn't realize it was 4" wide. But you are right about all the bubbles going right out of reactor. It was microbubbles which has been dissolved by reactor. The flow was really a lot, I'll play around with it today and see.


----------



## andyl9063

Well there's one hour left in Co2 period and water level has not drop in reactor. How come no one mention a big pump is needed along with bigger tubing? I think it's going to work great now. I'll see what happens a few days from now. Thanks guys


----------



## ltb420

The original venturi reactor design that called for the 200 GPH pump was slightly less than 2" wide using a water changer tube.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia

andyl9063 said:


> Well there's one hour left in Co2 period and water level has not drop in reactor. How come no one mention a big pump is needed along with bigger tubing? I think it's going to work great now. I'll see what happens a few days from now. Thanks guys


Because the understanding that pressure is _required_ for dissolution only became known to the hobby last year. (It's not exactly dwell time that's important.) If you understand this concept of pressure, you can do things to increase it. Numerous ways to do it - I've suggested some.

A problem I suspect is the 20" housing (short return head height) + 1/2" tubing = very low pressure in the reactor. The pump output may be enough but the lack of pressure is the problem. Thus, a 10" tall housing may actually be better, though I am not certain.


----------



## ikuzo

a question here :

if i use an inline atomizer before the cerges reactor, how's the result?

is it still dissolving co2 or those tiny bubbles will just blow away with the flow through the middle tube?


----------



## ikuzo

nevermind, installed it this morning and it works out nicely


----------



## fade2black

Did you use something like this? 

http://amzn.com/B006HKMO06


----------



## Immortal1

Spent some time digging thru this thread today. Below is the result. Unit will obviously be mounted vertically. Will try to add a pic later once it is installed. Thanks to all for the useful info.


----------



## ikuzo

fade2black said:


> Did you use something like this?
> 
> http://amzn.com/B006HKMO06


yes that is a similar one
small bubbles helps dissolve quicker imo
right now i have 100% co2 dissolved, but i'm only running 2-3 bps though



Immortal1 said:


> Spent some time digging thru this thread today. Below is the result. Unit will obviously be mounted vertically. Will try to add a pic later once it is installed. Thanks to all for the useful info.


if you open the bypass valve water can still run into the reactor right?


----------



## Immortal1

Yes, with the bypass fully open, water still runs thru the reactor. How much exactly, I don't now. Will have to spend some time figuring out what regulator pressure, what BPS, what bypass valve setting works. Should be fun.


----------



## ikuzo

why not add another valve to close the reactor if you want to bypass it completely


----------



## philipraposo1982

is 10" housing big enough for a 75g?


----------



## ecotanker

Great thread! Thanks for all the great tips and info. I read the first 30 or so pages then skipped to the end. I mod my fluidized bed filter a reactor similar to this. The in flowing water goes down a tube and then up through a sand bed. The return water needs to pass through another tube to get back to the tank. Hopefully this work just as well.


----------



## brains613

micca said:


> I built one of these a few weeks back after much research within this thread and elsewhere. The process would have been a lot easier if the pictures from the original post were still available and if the exact parts were outlined in one spot. I read a bunch of requests for others looking for this information, so if you happen to be one of them, I hope you find this post helpful.
> 
> I originally purchased the Whirlpool filter housing from Lowes and it leaked like crazy. The one I had didn't come with an O-ring. I'm unsure if it was missing from the box or if the unit simply doesn't come with one. Nonetheless, I returned that unit and got the GE one from Home Depot. It does include an O-ring and hasn't leaked whatsoever. I recommend you use the GE one based on this. The pictures below include the Whirlpool unit, but everything with the GE unit is exactly the same for all intents and purposes. All parts listed below were purchased from Lowes with the exception of the filter housing. The associated item numbers and descriptions are from Lowes. You can skip the shutoff ball valves if you want, but it's probably best to include them. You may need additional tubing for the outflow of the reactor to the tank. I recommend Watts braided vinyl tubing since non-braided may kink and cause problems with flow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> *A.*
> _*Water Filter Housing*_
> 
> At the time of this writing, here are the two most popular opaque water filter housing options that are available from Home Depot and Lowes. Based on my experience as noted above, I recommend you purchase the GE unit from Home Depot.
> 
> Available at Home Depot:
> *GE 3/4 in. Inlet Whole House Water Filtration System*
> Model Number: GXWH04F
> Store SKU Number: 319246
> Internet Number: 100471282
> 
> Available at Lowes:
> *Whirlpool Opaque Whole-House Pre-Filtration Housing*
> Model Number: WHKF-DWH
> Item Number: 89374
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> *All other components (available at Lowes):*
> ______________________
> *B.*
> Description: *Genova 1/2-in x 3/4-in Insert Male Adapter*
> Item Number: 54137
> Quantity: 2
> 
> Note: The 3/4" insert size is correct, but you may need a different hose adapter size based on the diameter of your filter's hose. The 1/2" hose adapter size fits well for my Eheim 2217.
> 
> ______________________
> *C.*
> Description: *American Valve 3/4-in PVC Sch 40 Female In-Line Ball Valve*
> Item Number: 21482
> Quantity: 2
> 
> Note: You can exclude these if you don't want to use them. They're used as shutoff valves for easy removal of the filter housing.
> 
> ______________________
> *D.*
> Description: *Orbit 6-in Cut-Off Riser (3/4-in x 3/4-in)*
> Item Number: 194532
> Quantity: 3
> 
> Note: Only one of these is needed if you exclude the above shutoff valves. These need to be cut if you want to save space in between the necessary components for which they're used. Only one end can be cut, so make sure you cut the correct end. I cut 4 of the adapters off instead of 5 in order to retain a little bit of space once put together. Please view the picture to see the end result.
> 
> ______________________
> *E.*
> Description: *LASCO 3/4-in Dia PVC Sch 40 Tee*
> Item Number: 317762
> Quantity: 1
> 
> ______________________
> *F.*
> Description: *Watts 3/16-in x 1/4-in Brass Barb Fitting*
> Item Number: 69301
> Quantity: 1
> 
> Note: This was a somewhat tight fit within its accompanying female adapter (#90379 - listed directly below), though both pieces come from the same manufacturer and the sizes are correct. The tight fit hasn't been a problem.
> 
> ______________________
> *G.*
> Description: *Watts 1/2-in x 1/4-in Brass Pipe Fitting*
> Item Number: 90379
> Quantity: 1
> 
> ______________________
> *H.*
> Description: *LASCO 3/4-in Dia x 1/2-in Dia PVC Sch 40 Bushing*
> Item Number: 51275
> Quantity: 1
> 
> ______________________
> *I.*
> Description: *Silver-Line Plastics 1/2-in x 2-ft 125-PSI Plastic Coil Pipe*
> Item Number: 518528
> Quantity: 1
> 
> Note: This tube needs to be cut and I cut it down to 9". This fits perfectly inside the available attachment within the cover of the filter housing without the need to use any adhesive.
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> _*Miscellaneous components (available at Lowes):*_
> ______________________
> Description: *Blue Hawk 43-ft Plumber's Tape*
> Item Number: 456833
> Quantity: 1
> 
> Note: Use this on all threads before attaching each component.
> 
> ______________________
> Description: *Murray 2-Pack 7/16-in - 29/32-in Dia Stainless Steel Adjustable Clamps*
> Item Number: 47670
> Quantity: 1 (2 per pack)
> 
> Note: These clamps are used where the hoses attach to the reactor.


A SUPER helpful post. (That's why I'm quoting it.)

I kept researching and was still unsure of exactly what I needed. I got all these parts, with one change, since the Lowes didn't have the exact model number. (The brass pipe reducer bushing.)

Couple notes - I got the water filter from Lowes. I opened in the store, and there IS an O-ring in it. That's why I got it. It was $22. The one from Home Depot was cheaper, ($13) but wasn't available locally. 

The part numbers for the two brass pieces I got are 645658 and 645891, made by BrassCraft. They fit together easily, even with the tape.


----------



## Patriot

Thanks for posting the list of what is needed. Now I have to find a clear one big enough for a 80 gallon tank.


----------



## philipraposo1982

Your going to want the big 20" housing with 4" dia.

I use that one for my 75g. I got mine from amazon.


----------



## Patriot

philipraposo1982 said:


> Your going to want the big 20" housing with 4" dia.
> 
> I use that one for my 75g. I got mine from amazon.


Which one on Amazon did you get?


----------



## Immortal1

LOL, guess I have not looked at this thread in awhile. Philip, yes the 10" housing seems big enough for my 75 gallon tank. What is the largest tank a 10 housing could be used on? No clue. Curious, what is the approximate cost for a 20" housing? and would (2) 10" housings produce better results if you could get the (2) 10" housings for about the same cost as the 20" housing?

Nice write up by brians613 - very helpful! Also, I find that the clear housings offer a chance to see whats happening inside the reactor. I have pushed too much cO2 into mine and it resulted in a bubble at the top of the reactor.


----------



## vladguan

Guys, the same thing can be DIYed with a little bit more work using DWV pipes and fittings. You can make a large one using 6" diameter pipes and end caps and then some bulkheads and irrigation rises as the centre tube and then a small threaded adaptor to screw into the inlet.


----------



## micca

Thanks for the feedback, brains613. I've adjusted my original post (Page 52 / post #770) with the information you provided. I'll continue to make edits as needed.


----------



## Patriot

Do anyone know if a sunsun 404b will produce enough pressure to work? This video mention that he had to use two filters for it to work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itj-qxlKmIo


----------



## Patriot

I just order the pentek 3/4 20" 3g filter housing. I did not come with a cap.


----------



## Fiala06

brains613 said:


> A SUPER helpful post. (That's why I'm quoting it.)
> 
> I kept researching and was still unsure of exactly what I needed. I got all these parts, with one change, since the Lowes didn't have the exact model number. (The brass pipe reducer bushing.)
> 
> Couple notes - I got the water filter from Lowes. I opened in the store, and there IS an O-ring in it. That's why I got it. It was $22. The one from Home Depot was cheaper, ($13) but wasn't available locally.
> 
> The part numbers for the two brass pieces I got are 645658 and 645891, made by BrassCraft. They fit together easily, even with the tape.


Thanks for this. Just built it and couldn't be happier. Just ordered parts for my 2nd tank!


----------



## FatherLandDescendant

2 questions about this build.

1. Do you run the water through in reverse to what the filter itself calls for? I'm assuming one does want the CO2 entering the largest chamber and the CO2 rich water leaving the down tube.

2. The lowes where I'm at didn't have the plastic risers so I got brass, is this going to cause an issue?


----------



## WaterLife

Yeah you run water in reverse through it. Your inlet connects to the housing's marked outlet, and your outlet coming out of the housing's marked inlet. So you hook it up in reverse/opposite to the marking.
I'm not sure about the risers.


----------



## Positron

I just constructed this reactor, but I'm confused a bit. On the diagram a few pages back that micaa wrote, the input from the pump is clearly going into the input "in" on the reactor. The red button is closest to the input of the reactor so the Co2 comes through the pipe before it. 

Does it make a huge difference what way the water flows through the thing?

EDIT: Upon closer examination of the reactor, the IN pipes directly to the top of the reactor. The OUT sucks water from the bottom of the reactor via the tube. This is how it's setup in my current min max reactor.


----------



## micca

Positron said:


> EDIT: Upon closer examination of the reactor, the IN pipes directly to the top of the reactor. The OUT sucks water from the bottom of the reactor via the tube. This is how it's setup in my current min max reactor.



Yes, this is correct. The previous comment from WaterLife is incorrect if you want the best possible setup. There's no need to reverse the direction of the flow. I'm sure it'd still work if it was reversed, but doing so would give less room for CO2 absorption.


----------



## heel4you

Is it possible to make this topic a "sticky" or a blog with only the correct step-by-step setup?
I am going to build one soon, but this thread got a little confusing.
Thanks


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## micca

heel4you said:


> Is it possible to make this topic a "sticky" or a blog with only the correct step-by-step setup?
> I am going to build one soon, but this thread got a little confusing.
> Thanks


Start and end here - post #770

A year later and this beast has been running flawlessly with 100% CO2 absorption since I built it.


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## heel4you

Thank you micca!!


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## ironroot

Hi all

I just found this post and am planing on build a reactor soon for my 125 gal tank but I got a few questions

I am think of using 20" × 4½" Cartridges with 3/4" Ports from https://www.h2odistributors.com/ytb-20-cb34-pr and I want to know what pump I should use with it?

Secondly because the reactor will not be inline with a filter I am wondering what inlet/outlet pipe I should use.

I am thinking of getting the Eheim Water System Installation Sets for 5/8" tubing and using a pump with 3/4" ports but I am not sure if that will be a good idea or not?

Any help would be great


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## m00se

I use a Danner Mag 5 pump in mine. I don't think you need to go to Eheim level here. Get an ATI pre-filter from Ken's Fish ATI Filter Max #3 and plumb it in with 1/2" clear vinyl hose from HD. You'll need adapters to go into and out of your HH filter, and you should figure on at least two valves in there so that you can remove it when time comes for maintenance. I haven't touched mine in over a year so I know the pre-filter is working. Mag 5 is a workhorse with a proven track record. Just don't run it dry and you'll have years of service from it.

Bump: I use a Danner Mag 5 pump in mine. I don't think you need to go to Eheim level here. Get an ATI pre-filter from Ken's Fish ATI Filter Max #3 and plumb it in with 1/2" clear vinyl hose from HD. You'll need adapters to go into and out of your HH filter, and you should figure on at least two valves in there so that you can remove it when time comes for maintenance. I haven't touched mine in over a year so I know the pre-filter is working. Mag 5 is a workhorse with a proven track record. Just don't run it dry and you'll have years of service from it.


----------



## ironroot

m00se said:


> I use a Danner Mag 5 pump in mine. I don't think you need to go to Eheim level here. Get an ATI pre-filter from Ken's Fish ATI Filter Max #3 and plumb it in with 1/2" clear vinyl hose from HD. You'll need adapters to go into and out of your HH filter, and you should figure on at least two valves in there so that you can remove it when time comes for maintenance. I haven't touched mine in over a year so I know the pre-filter is working. Mag 5 is a workhorse with a proven track record. Just don't run it dry and you'll have years of service from it.
> 
> Bump: I use a Danner Mag 5 pump in mine. I don't think you need to go to Eheim level here. Get an ATI pre-filter from Ken's Fish ATI Filter Max #3 and plumb it in with 1/2" clear vinyl hose from HD. You'll need adapters to go into and out of your HH filter, and you should figure on at least two valves in there so that you can remove it when time comes for maintenance. I haven't touched mine in over a year so I know the pre-filter is working. Mag 5 is a workhorse with a proven track record. Just don't run it dry and you'll have years of service from it.


Thanks for the feed back I will look into the filter and the pump.


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## m00se

I re-read what I wrote, and realized: I didn't mean to imply I haven't CLEANED the prefilter in over a year! That gets done with the regular WC's. So get the filter and at least 2 backup sponges so you can swap them out. They're cheap.

Also, http://www.amazon.com/Danner-Mag-Drive-Supreme-Water-Pump/dp/B0002564JE

GL

I used 1/2" white PVC w/glue to get the water to and from the tank, IE: diy all the way, including the intake pipe and spray bar return. I used Krylon Fusion matte black spray paint on the piping to tie it all in. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Krylon-12-oz-Fusion-for-Plastic-Satin-Black/17253596


----------



## ironroot

Thanks m00se for the info I think I am going do the same.

One final question for anyone that has used a https://www.h2odistributors.com/ytb-20-cb34-pr housing unit what diameter of tubing should I use for the internal downspout?


----------



## m00se

I *think* I used 1 1/4" ID white pvc on mine. I know I had to stick the end of it into a pan of boiling water to make it pliable and force it into the removable filter seating ring in the top of the cap. It took a few minutes, and a little horsing, but it made a nice snug fit without needing teflon tape or any glue nonsense in there. You do want to design it so that it can come apart in the event that you need to clean it. Like any new thing you'll probably redesign it at least once before you settle on your final setup. It was an easy project and the results are A+.

Like this: http://i.imgur.com/2H0Hp.jpg only it looks like he glued his in. I softened the pvc in boiling water (easy!) and "suggested" it into a narrower diameter carefully, and once I got the lip of the pipe even and re-heated it in the hot water 2-3 times I was able to drive it home and seat it. Then I just slowly rotated the pipe/cap like a toy top on a table to make sure it was plumb (adjusting with heat if necessary) and Bob's Your Uncle.

Protip: don't use CPVC because it will not get soft at all at 212F. Best advice is to bring the filter with you when you go to Lowes to make sure you get a slightly over-size piece of pipe.

GL


----------



## ironroot

m00se said:


> I *think* I used 1 1/4" ID white pvc on mine. I know I had to stick the end of it into a pan of boiling water to make it pliable and force it into the removable filter seating ring in the top of the cap. It took a few minutes, and a little horsing, but it made a nice snug fit without needing teflon tape or any glue nonsense in there. You do want to design it so that it can come apart in the event that you need to clean it. Like any new thing you'll probably redesign it at least once before you settle on your final setup. It was an easy project and the results are A+.
> 
> Like this: http://i.imgur.com/2H0Hp.jpg only it looks like he glued his in. I softened the pvc in boiling water (easy!) and "suggested" it into a narrower diameter carefully, and once I got the lip of the pipe even and re-heated it in the hot water 2-3 times I was able to drive it home and seat it. Then I just slowly rotated the pipe/cap like a toy top on a table to make sure it was plumb (adjusting with heat if necessary) and Bob's Your Uncle.
> 
> Protip: don't use CPVC because it will not get soft at all at 212F. Best advice is to bring the filter with you when you go to Lowes to make sure you get a slightly over-size piece of pipe.
> 
> GL


Thanks for the info, I plan on speeding some time in Lowes to get this project done


----------



## pwu_1

I'm setting up a 46 bowfront and built one of these Cerges reactors. In my old 20 Long using a diffuser connected to the inlet of my HOB filter, it would take hours and very high bubble count before my drop checker would change to a light green color. Using the Cerges, should I expect the time for the drop checker to change color to be about the same or should it happen faster? How about co2 bubble count? In my previous HOB diffusion method, I know there was a lot of waste because I can see the bubbles going up to the surface inside my HOB. Seems like the cerges should be more efficient and much less wasted CO2?

Bump: btw, in case anyone is interested, I found and purchased this filter from amazon. It cost about the same as the lowes/homedepot one but it is clear

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009BAM8AU/ref=sxr_rr_xsim_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453154812&sr=0

With this filter, I use a regular 1 inch pvc pipe cut down to length as the center pipe and it fits snug without glue


----------



## Patriot

This is the flow I get using a 20 inch housing with a Sunsun 404b "525" GPH. 

Looking into upgrading to a Fx6.


----------



## jedimasterben

Patriot said:


> This is the flow I get using a 20 inch housing with a Sunsun 404b "525" GPH.
> 
> Looking into upgrading to a Fx6.


I am using a Sunsun 304B that I just got set up. With a standard 10" filter from Home Depot that has 3/4" connections and 3/4" the entire run, I get less than 120GPH back into the tank. This is with the canister completely empty, too, no filter pads and no media. Really disappointed in this one - my Sunsun 302 gives more flow than this when packed with filter floss and going through 13mm glass pipes instead of 16mm.

This is the canister I used: Glacier Bay Basic Household Water Filtration System-HDG2BS4 - The Home Depot

The inputs are 3/4", but the actual openings inside are much smaller, less than 1/2". I am wondering if I will get more flow if I replace the canister with a legit Pentek filter. I actually have a 20" 'Big Blue' that I was using for my house before I upgraded that system, so I would just need to swap it out, but it's so damned heavy when full that I don't think my stand can take the torque it would apply to one brace. I have a feeling, though, that it won't make too much of a difference.


----------



## payluder

Would this size work if I want to build the reactor? I have a small 17 gallon and my stand is already crowded.
7-3/8 x 4-5/8 inches (187 x 118 mm)


----------



## Patriot

I would get the largest you could possibly fit. The bubbleight not have time to diffuse in such a small space.


----------



## seandelevan

I ditched the Cerges reactor after 5 years because of lack of flow. It was pitiful. I needed two eheim 2015s at one point. The one connected to the cerges reactor was at best a weak trickle...the one without was full stream. Finally went with a DIY Griggs style reactor and it was good to go. Didn't need two filters taking up space anymore. I would do a cerges again if I had something like a fx5 or fx6 that had over the top flow.


----------



## Patriot

seandelevan said:


> I ditched the Cerges reactor after 5 years because of lack of flow. It was pitiful. I needed to eheim 2015 at one point. The one connected to the reactor was at best a weak trickle...the one without was full stream. Finally went I with DIY Griggs style reactor and it was good to go.


Did you have a sponge in the filter? I had the same problem when the sponge clogged.


----------



## seandelevan

Patriot said:


> Did you have a sponge in the filter? I had the same problem when the sponge clogged.


Nah, had nothing in it...so then I got to the point where I began taking media out of the eheim....to the point where it was empty!!! It went from a slow trickle to maybe a medium trickle. Smh.


----------



## plant_guru

None of the pics in the first post are working


----------



## Cento

plant_guru said:


> None of the pics in the first post are working




As micca stated above, look at post #770 - all the pics u need are there. Hopefully they stay there for the coming years to help other hobbyists. 

I guess that's why these things should be made sickies - or does that not prevent the image source from disappearing I wonder....


----------



## IUnknown

I have been having issues with my cerges reactor filling up with air, and worried that the flow rate has been reduced too much. Haven't read the whole thread, but does the DIY Griggs style reactor provide more flow? Why is air filling up?


----------



## Immortal1

IUnknown, having built several Cerges reactors I can offer a few bits of info regarding your situation.
Some of the whole house filters have fairly small holes leading into and out of the filter. This ends up causing the poor flow at the tank output. One way of fixing this is to add a regulated bypass to the Cerges reactor.
As for your reactor filling up with air / cO2, this would be an indication of running too many bubbles per second for the amount of water flowing thru the reactor. Not sure why, but it seems if you have a little slower flow rate thru the reactor, it seems to absorb the cO2 faster. For my system I run 5-8 bubbles per second without issue. Anything more than 8 and I start building a bubble in the top of the reactor.


----------



## IUnknown

Immortal1,
Thanks so much, super helpful. I'll try it out.


----------



## burr740

Immortal1 said:


> Yes, with the bypass fully open, water still runs thru the reactor. How much exactly, I don't now. Will have to spend some time figuring out what regulator pressure, what BPS, what bypass valve setting works. Should be fun.


Hey Immortal,

Would there be any difference between 8 bps going in at 10 psi wp and 8 bps going in at 30?

Still fine tuning my griggs and just wondering. On one hand seems like there would be no difference, but on the other hand seems like there might be.


----------



## Immortal1

Burr, are you asking about 8 bubbles per second at 10 psi cO2 pressure verses 8 bubbles per second at 30 psi cO2 pressure? 
If so, then yes, there would be a big difference - if.... 
and the "if" is the tough part of the discussion to understand for some. I will give it a try. To begin with, assume the amount of water column pressure within the reactor is 10psi. If you set your cO2 regulator at 10psi then there really is not much incentive for the cO2 gas to travel thru the bubble counter and down the tube into the reactor.
If you set your cO2 regulator at 20psi then your cO2 would have an incentive to go into the reactor. Would it be a 10psi incentive? Likely not. The water colume pressure within the reactor will only put up a certian amount of resistance to the inbound cO2 gas. If you were to adjust the cO2 regulator to 30psi then you would assume your getting a lot more cO2 per bubble but again, the small tube from the regulator to the reactor offers very little resistance and the water colume pressure is still only 10psi (assuming for discussion).

Now, if you had a different type if cO2 dispersion method, say an in tank ceramic diffuser then the regulator pressure can make a significant difference. The diffuser is offering much more resistance than an open tube. Lets assume the diffuser requires 25 psi to blow tiny bubbles and at 35psi it blows a lot more tiny bubbles. My guess would be 8 bubbles per second at 35 psi would yield more cO2 dispersed than 8 bubbles per second at 25 psi.

Wow, lot of mumbo jumbo 

How about some more. If you mount your Cerges or Griggs reactor in such a way so that the top of the reactor was even with the water level in your tank, then the water column pressure within the reactor would be nearly zero. The incoming water from your canister filter would bounce the cO2 bubbles around a bunch but wound not necessarily "squeeze" the cO2 bubbles into submission. Also, the amount of cO2 pressure within the small open ended tube would be nearly zero psi so the amount of cO2 getting into the reactor would be very small. 
If you mounted your reactor in such a way so that the top of the reactor was 10 feet below the water level of your tank there would be a significant amount of water column pressure to "squeeze" the cO2 bubbles into submission! Also, there would be a significantly higher amount of resistance to cO2 gas entering the reactor so you would have to increase your regulator psi which inturn would greatly increase the amount of cO2 gas entering the reactor!

Pretty sure non of us would like to mount our tanks 10' in the air. But, for those who have the display tank mounted on the first floor and the sump / filter equipment setup in the basement - I would guess you could dump a lot of cO2 into the water column!

As for the rest of us with normal setups, I would like to propose an interesting question. Which would be better, a 30" tall Griggs reactor made out of 2" PVC and mounted vertically under the tank? Or a 10" tall Griggs reactor made out of 6" PVC mounted vertically with the bottom of the reactor mounted a low as possible?

Ok, too much thinking. Time for a beer.


----------



## N2uqs

Hello everyone,

I need advice on a buying a pump for this style of reactor. How many GPH do I want running into it. Tank is 55 gal before substrate, wood and plantings so I'm guessing it's about 45 gal or so. What size Cerges filter should I buy a 10" or 20"? Filter is a small Wet / Dry. Thanks for the advice....


----------



## WaterLife

Anyone have experience using a SunSun 304/404 with either a Cerges or Griggs reactor in-line and can comment on flow rate reduction? Size of reactor housing (and maybe inlet/outlet diameters) info may be helpful.

What @Immortal1 stated about smaller internal holes on Cerges whole house filter housings makes sense. Anyone have a particular brand of WHF housing that had large holes/didn't reduce much flow?
I assume Griggs style reactors would not have the same issues (small holes significantly reducing flow)

I was thinking of doing a 20" Cerges since I liked the WHF housing appearance better than PVC Griggs, but if flow rate would be reduced much more with the Cerges, or require a by-pass to be made with PVC, then I might just go straight ahead and build a PVC Griggs and avoid the hassle (likely save some dough too).
For the SunSun mentioned above, the Cerges housing should have 3/4" inlet/outlet threads right, not 3/8"?
If I went the Griggs design, I would probably still do at least 20" in length (standing tall). What diameter pipes should be used?


----------



## IUnknown

Anyone have links from Amazon for a WHF housing? The one I got at lowes has inlet and outlets that look super restrictive and is cutting my flow. This is for a 100 gallon. And a link to the center pipe, I used tubing but the Co2 is eating it. Like a defacto setup that is tried and true.


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## burr740

@WaterLife I know the adjustable water filters with a built in cut off on top, have much smaller holes than the regular ones. I made the mistake of buying one of those first, thinking it would be a good thing, then noticed the holes inside were like 5/16" dia. That's just a guess, but they looked tiny. Had to go buy another one


----------



## snowman1235

I am reading into the various DIY Cerges CO2 reactors for the 330g tank I am building. I came across this thread, which looks it could be very useful to read from Tom Barr, but all the images seem to be broken links:
How To Build A Cerges CO2 Reactor - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report

Was this design reported also anywhere else by Tom, where images would still be active?


----------



## WaterLife

snowman1235 said:


> I am reading into the various DIY Cerges CO2 reactors for the 330g tank I am building. I came across this thread, which looks it could be very useful to read from Tom Barr, but all the images seem to be broken links:
> How To Build A Cerges CO2 Reactor - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report
> 
> Was this design reported also anywhere else by Tom, where images would still be active?


This is the dual venturi build from Tom Barr (modified Rex Grigg design)
Dual venturi DIY External CO2 reactor - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report

The link you posted, the JPG (JPEG) links aren't working for me (maybe you have to be a logged in member? or the OP deleted the pics from their computer), but all the other pictures throughout the thread display for me.

Any way, if you still can't see the pics on your linked page, the Cerges build on that thread is just a typical Cerges build.


----------



## ernest

Craigthor said:


> Have to thank our Russian friends for this one. After playing with the Rex Griggs reactor I wanted to try something else. Principal and cost are about the same design is different.
> 
> Google Translate
> 
> What you will need:
> 
> Omni OB1 Series A House Filter
> 2- 1/2" Male Threaded Adaptors with Barb end
> 2- 3/4" 90 degree Street fitting
> 2- 3/4" PVC Male Adaptor
> 2- 3/4" x 1/2" PVC Bushing
> 1- 3/4" CPVC Coupling - Note this has to be *CPVC* not _PVC_ as the PVC fittings are too big
> 1- 6 3/4" x 3/4" CPVC Pipe - Again has to be *CPVC *and not _PVC_
> PVC Primer and Cement
> CO2 Tubing
> Teflon Thread Tape
> Scissors
> Needle Nose Pliers
> Filter Tubing
> Drill and Drill bit for your CO2 Tubing
> 
> Total cost as ~ $23 each about the same as the Rex Griggs inline reactor if you don't use clear pvc.
> 
> Filter Housing:
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> Start by removing the Priming Button via the screw on the inside of the lid for the housing:
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> Drill out the hole to accept your CO2 tubing this hole shpould be smaller then your CO2 Tubing so it creates its' own seal.
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> Cut the CO2 tubing at a sharp angle so you can stick it through and pull it with the needle nose pliers. This should be slightly tough to pull through as it will create a seal as you pull the tubing through.
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> Cut the CPVC pipe off at 6 3/4", if you are using a different filter you may have to adjust the cut off length. I cut mine so it was about 3/4" off the bottom. Push the CPVC coupler over the nipple in the lid, should fit really snug. Then push the CPVC pipe into the coupler. I didn't glue this together as it was a snug fit and should be under little pressure.
> 
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> Lay out and glue the fittings together, with the fitting I chose you won't need any extra 3/4" pipe as all the fittings go together.
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> Attach the fittings to each side jsut make sure you hook them up according to the Flow marking on the lid. Finished Product.
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> 
> I will update tomorrow once I install these as to how effective they are, but based on looks they should function really well. According to the article I linked to about he got a .5 PH change in a matter of minutes.
> 
> Craig


why the pictures are not shown?


----------



## plantsrockmysocks

The pictures were moved/delete from Craigthor's Photobucket account.


----------



## micca

ernest said:


> why the pictures are not shown?


Click here for pictures.


----------



## ernest

micca said:


> Click here for pictures.


ah.... thank you micca.


----------



## michu

Just realized I was being incredibly rude by asking for help in this thread. I do apologize. I posted a new thread if anyone would like to help. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1087025-need-cerges-reactor-help.html#post9588897


----------



## Patriot

Anyone using this with a Fluval FX6?


----------



## PEdwards

Anyone have experience using a needle wheel impeller on their Cerges? I'm currently running a lot of gas through a 590ish gph needle wheel skimmer pump through a 20"x4.5" reactor and am still getting a boatload of microbubbles making it through even with the outlet valved waaaaay back (and hence a lot of pressure for dissolution). I'm beginning to think going to a direct bubble input vs. blowing mist into the chamber is a better idea.

Thanks!


----------



## zackariah

I have 2 cerges in line on my tank and it works. Maybe try that.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## PEdwards

zackariah said:


> I have 2 cerges in line on my tank and it works. Maybe try that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Thanks for the input. I do have 3x 10" unit that I'd been using and have been considering trying to hook up them it up to the new large chamber. Hopefully that will help.


----------



## Craigthor

Amazing to still see this thread going strong, yes I cleaned up my photobucket some years ago and these photos were removed.


----------



## johnson18

micca said:


> Click here for pictures.


Damn! I didn't think to put ball valves on mine! I built one about a month ago, now I'm gonna have to make some changes!


----------



## TB12

think an fx6 is too much flow for one of these?


----------



## burr740

TB12 said:


> think an fx6 is too much flow for one of these?


Maybe, but every set up runs a little different. 

Be a good idea to go with a 20" model instead of a 12. It'll handle more CO2 at a higher flow rate. 

Also avoid the kind that have a flow control lever built in the top. The hole where the water goes through on those reduces to an even smaller size, which will drastically reduce flow and volume, even going into the reactor. Add your own ball valves instead.

You'd just have to try it and see. If you have a really big tank and need the FX6 to run at full capacity, a big oversized Griggs style might work better. They dont reduce flow as much as these can, primarily because you can use any size openings you want without reducing it. 

And one of these will definitely limit an FX6 because you're looking at a ~1/2" hole going in the lid, no matter what size hoses connect to it.


----------



## TB12

burr740 said:


> Maybe, but every set up runs a little different.
> 
> Be a good idea to go with a 20" model instead of a 12. It'll handle more CO2 at a higher flow rate.
> 
> Also avoid the kind that have a flow control lever built in the top. The hole where the water goes through on those reduces to an even smaller size, which will drastically reduce flow and volume, even going into the reactor. Add your own ball valves instead.
> 
> You'd just have to try it and see. If you have a really big tank and need the FX6 to run at full capacity, a big oversized Griggs style might work better. They dont reduce flow as much as these can, primarily because you can use any size openings you want without reducing it.
> 
> And one of these will definitely limit an FX6 because you're looking at a ~1/2" hole going in the lid, no matter what size hoses connect to it.


the fx6 is going on a 65 gallon, I'm just not getting enough flow from the 2217 currently because of how dense the plants are. I went ahead and ordered a 20" housing, we will see how it goes!


----------



## Aceman

TB12 said:


> the fx6 is going on a 65 gallon, I'm just not getting enough flow from the 2217 currently because of how dense the plants are. I went ahead and ordered a 20" housing, we will see how it goes!




I have a fx5 and I use it as the reactor itself. What I've done is placed a defuser in the inflow of the filter which then the filter will act like a giant reactor. Seems to work well on my 90


----------



## Roarke

Seems like flow is the common problem with all these external reactors. Has anyone tried putting the reactor in parallel to the filter, and adding a separate pump before the reactor?


----------



## Kubla

Parallel pumps start getting tricky. I just used a power head and ran a separate line.


----------



## negen

Roarke said:


> Seems like flow is the common problem with all these external reactors. Has anyone tried putting the reactor in parallel to the filter, and adding a separate pump before the reactor?


I did that with my sera 1000 reactor. seems to work fine I had that pump turn on the same time as the co2 did. I am sure the idea is probably the same. The airline nipple broke off of my sera today. I will either try to repair it or built my own.


----------



## dj2606

Is it better to have high flow or lower flow through a Cerges reactor?


----------



## natemcnutty

dj2606 said:


> Is it better to have high flow or lower flow through a Cerges reactor?


Neither. You have to match the size of reactor to the flow. That's the biggest problem with this type of reactor.


----------



## Kubla

TB12 said:


> the fx6 is going on a 65 gallon, I'm just not getting enough flow from the 2217 currently because of how dense the plants are. I went ahead and ordered a 20" housing, we will see how it goes!



It's quite a large hose on the FX6. I believe it's 1". I'd put the reactor in a parallel bypass with valves on both legs. You can control the flow through the reactor and throttle down the bypass if you need to. I put an FX6 on my 92g. The thing is a beast with an incredible amount of flow. If you haven't used an FX filter before I'd suggest bagging any loose media. (I think it comes with bags) and put some kind of filter pad on the very bottom. I love their design for priming, with the pump on the bottom. The downside is any loose media will play havoc with the impeller.


----------



## dj2606

natemcnutty said:


> Neither. You have to match the size of reactor to the flow. That's the biggest problem with this type of reactor.


I have the 20" with 1" ports and still unable to get a 1 degree PH drop (even with a ridiculously high BPS). I can get sorta close, around .75 - .8 drop. I also get the smallest microbubbles entering the display tank (they are definitely smaller than what an inline atomizer puts out). Is this normal? Or should the water completely clear? 

Reading from 15 pages back I think I'm going to try changing the output of the reactor from 1" to 1/2" and leaving the input as 1". Would this be a waste of time or does anyone think this plan may work to force the CO2 to completely dissolve before leaving the reactor? 

I'm hoping to achieve two goals:
1. Get a 1 degree PH drop quickly (1 to 1 1/2 hours)
2. Lower the BPS to a reasonable amount. 

As of now, I have such a very very very high rate. While I understand the BPS will be higher on a larger aquarium, the amount I am using doesn't seem to be on par with what others are using on a similar sized aquarium from other posts. My theory, the CO2 is NOT fully dissolved before leaving the reactor which is why my BPS is so high. I'm just at a loss on how to force the CO2 into dissolving completely. I have tried bypass valves, a valve before and after the reactor but nothing seems to work.


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## natemcnutty

dj2606 said:


> I have the 20" with 1" ports and still unable to get a 1 degree PH drop (even with a ridiculously high BPS). I can get sorta close, around .75 - .8 drop. I also get the smallest microbubbles entering the display tank (they are definitely smaller than what an inline atomizer puts out). Is this normal? Or should the water completely clear?
> 
> Reading from 15 pages back I think I'm going to try changing the output of the reactor from 1" to 1/2" and leaving the input as 1". Would this be a waste of time or does anyone think this plan may work to force the CO2 to completely dissolve before leaving the reactor?
> 
> I'm hoping to achieve two goals:
> 1. Get a 1 degree PH drop quickly (1 to 1 1/2 hours)
> 2. Lower the BPS to a reasonable amount.
> 
> As of now, I have such a very very very high rate. While I understand the BPS will be higher on a larger aquarium, the amount I am using doesn't seem to be on par with what others are using on a similar sized aquarium from other posts. My theory, the CO2 is NOT fully dissolved before leaving the reactor which is why my BPS is so high. I'm just at a loss on how to force the CO2 into dissolving completely. I have tried bypass valves, a valve before and after the reactor but nothing seems to work.


If you are blowing bubbles out, the flow rate is slightly too high, but if the bubbles are dissolving before hitting the surface, you are close enough to 100% dissolve rate that it shouldn't matter.

Instead of changing out the barb, simply put a ball valve after the reactor and close it very slightly until no bubbles come out. 

Also, not achieving a 1 pH drop may not be an issue if your starting pH is below 6.5.

1) What is your starting pH?
2) What are the full dimensions of your reactor, flow rate, and aquarium size?
3) Do you hear gurgling once you get the CO2 for rate too high?


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## dj2606

natemcnutty said:


> If you are blowing bubbles out, the flow rate is slightly too high, but if the bubbles are dissolving before hitting the surface, you are close enough to 100% dissolve rate that it shouldn't matter.
> 
> Instead of changing out the barb, simply put a ball valve after the reactor and close it very slightly until no bubbles come out.
> 
> Also, not achieving a 1 pH drop may not be an issue if your starting pH is below 6.5.
> 
> 1) What is your starting pH?
> 2) What are the full dimensions of your reactor, flow rate, and aquarium size?
> 3) Do you hear gurgling once you get the CO2 for rate too high?



*1) What is your starting pH?*
6.95

*2) What are the full dimensions of your reactor, flow rate, and aquarium size?*
20" x 6" Reactor with 1" NPT
Varios 8 DC pump (max 2,700 GPH). Not using at full capacity. Probably running around 1,400 GPH. I use a manifold to run other reactors for the system. 
150 gallon with 40 gallon sump

*3) Do you hear gurgling once you get the CO2 for rate too high?*
Never get gas buildup or gurgling from the reactor. There is definitely enough pressure to keep the reactor full of water even with high BPS.


I've tried using the valve on the output of the reactor with no success. The best PH drop I have gotten was opening up the bypass valve to allow more water to flow straight to the display and not to the manifold where the CO2 reactor is plumbed. I have also tried opening the bypass and closing off the output valve, however, that didn't work either.


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## natemcnutty

dj2606 said:


> *1) What is your starting pH?*
> 6.95
> 
> *2) What are the full dimensions of your reactor, flow rate, and aquarium size?*
> 20" x 6" Reactor with 1" NPT
> Varios 8 DC pump (max 2,700 GPH). Not using at full capacity. Probably running around 1,400 GPH. I use a manifold to run other reactors for the system.
> 150 gallon with 40 gallon sump
> 
> *3) Do you hear gurgling once you get the CO2 for rate too high?*
> Never get gas buildup or gurgling from the reactor. There is definitely enough pressure to keep the reactor full of water even with high BPS.
> 
> 
> I've tried using the valve on the output of the reactor with no success. The best PH drop I have gotten was opening up the bypass valve to allow more water to flow straight to the display and not to the manifold where the CO2 reactor is plumbed. I have also tried opening the bypass and closing off the output valve, however, that didn't work either.


Trying to saturate almost 200 gallons is way beyond my largest, but I know this has been discussed on Barr Report. Some of them switched to Cerges reactors while others added a second Griggs. The drop should be achievable with your starting pH though.

The big thing I noticed most of the guys with large tanks talked about was using a dedicated pump for the CO2 reactor rather than running it through a filter which could do down over time.

Is your sump sealed in any way? Some of them seem to do this while others don't. I'm hoping to try a sump when I get my 75. I have a lot of work to do on the house before I can do that though


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## dj2606

natemcnutty said:


> Trying to saturate almost 200 gallons is way beyond my largest, but I know this has been discussed on Barr Report. Some of them switched to Cerges reactors while others added a second Griggs. The drop should be achievable with your starting pH though.
> 
> The big thing I noticed most of the guys with large tanks talked about was using a dedicated pump for the CO2 reactor rather than running it through a filter which could do down over time.
> 
> Is your sump sealed in any way? Some of them seem to do this while others don't. I'm hoping to try a sump when I get my 75. I have a lot of work to do on the house before I can do that though [emoji14]


If you opt for a sump on your 75g, I strongly suggest you get it drilled for a bean animal type of overflow (ghost overflow box). If I had to do it all over again that would be the number one thing I'd changed. Currently, I have a Herbie overflow method, while it's not as bad as a Durso it's still not dead silent like a bean animal. The other downside to the Herbie method is it requires very precise tuning, you have to get the ball valve just perfect. With the Bean Animal method, there are two proprietary drains and therefore much less finicky when tuning. 

I'm hoping to avoid having to purchase and plumb another pump. I don't really have the room under the stand for more electrical either. That will be the absolute last resort as that would require additional changes and overhaul to the plumbing. 

I actually went and purchased supplies needed to downsize the output of the reactor down to 1/2" and 3/4". Right now I have the 1/2" already installed and it's working. PH is dropping down into ideal range. However, the flow has also dropped. I'm going to leave it for a day or two and then try the 3/4. I think when I switch to the 3/4 I may add an additional reactor I already have lying around. This would allow me to have higher flow into the display while also giving CO2 more contact time in the reactor to dissolve. Going to keep experimenting to find the best option.


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## easternlethal

dj2606 said:


> I've tried using the valve on the output of the reactor with no success. The best PH drop I have gotten was opening up the bypass valve to allow more water to flow straight to the display and not to the manifold where the CO2 reactor is plumbed. I have also tried opening the bypass and closing off the output valve, however, that didn't work either.



I experience the same phenomena as you but over time I've come to the conclusion that it's not always a good idea to slow down flow - because a higher concentration of co2 infused water output at a lower rate may be the same as a lower concentration of co2 infused water output at a higher rate. It depends on how much your system degasses and how well the water is getting distributed within the tank. For me, flow is most important. I also use an open sump with a trickle filter which degasses horribly. So to get high flow and lots of oxygenated water which is what I need in a highly stocked tank / sump I've learnt to live with high bps. There are many now who have stopped using bubble counters and flow meters instead to measure co2. I don't think you can have it both ways. I used to fret about getting max efficiency co2 dissolution but always ended up sacrificing something. Then I got a fire extinguisher sized co2 canister and stopped worrying.

If injecting co2 directly into your tank seems more efficient than the cerges then I think you dialled down co2 too much in trying to get it all to dissolve. If you keep bps up and let the micro bubbles exit into the tank but aim the output against the glass so the bubbles are being pushed down then you should be getting the benefits of both in tank diffusion and cerges diffusion. Should be better than either.


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## Fly2High

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I couldn't find a better place to ask questions about Cerges reactors and such.

I purchased an Aquaboon whole house filter and would like to have invertebrates in my tank. My thoughts are that brass is a no go due to the copper. I was wondering if anyone tried any of these alternatives.

1. Drill out an undersized hole in a PVC plug. I do not like the idea of drilling into the reactor but I have no problem drilling out a plug (much cheaper if I screw up). Going this direction, how do you determine the size of the hole (assuming 6mm OD tubing)? Since this plug will be inserted into either an insert elbow or Tee, should there be something to prevent it from being pulled out accidentally?

2. Push to connect adapter. Was looking at Home Depot and saw them but noticed they were for liquids only. Searching on Amazon, they do make them for pneumatics. some examples are:

https://www.amazon.com/Metalwork-Pl...rds=6mm+OD+push+to+connect+tube+1/2"+male+NPT
https://www.amazon.com/Legris-Stain...=p_n_feature_seven_browse-bin:5485702011&th=1

Will something like this work? If they put nickel over the brass, will I still need to be concerned about the copper? Yeah, I know. It is so little but none is better than some.

Thanks for the help.


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## Fly2High

Ended up just drilling out a 1/2" NPT plug and forcing the hose through. I think I drilled a 5/32" or 11/64" hole. Boy was it hard to pull through. I pointed for a distance about 1/2" or so and with the help of a pair of needle nose pliers, pulled it through. No leaks. It though seem to stretch out the tubing a little.


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## RLee

Fly2High said:


> Ended up just drilling out a 1/2" NPT plug and forcing the hose through. I think I drilled a 5/32" or 11/64" hole. Boy was it hard to pull through. I pointed for a distance about 1/2" or so and with the help of a pair of needle nose pliers, pulled it through. No leaks. It though seem to stretch out the tubing a little.


I run my this way as well. If you put some lube on the co2 line when you pull it through it helps alot. Never had a leak and it been in constant use for 6 years. I use a Grigg reactor and drilled the hole through the top of the 2" PVC but same difference.


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## Fly2High

RLee said:


> I run my this way as well. If you put some lube on the co2 line when you pull it through it helps alot. Never had a leak and it been in constant use for 6 years. I use a Grigg reactor and drilled the hole through the top of the 2" PVC but same difference.


I kinda did. I used some soapy water on the tubing to help ease it through. Not sure if it would have gone in without it.


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