# Chumlee's EBI - UPDATE **DSM**



## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

HEY guys, So excited that I finally got my ebi. 

I have everything stock on this and it's stocked with a bunch of crs from the thread in SnS selling them for 3$. BTW John, the seller, gave me a few extra and he was a really nice guy. Would buy all of my crs from him in the future. 

Plants: 



Carolina Fanwort (one of my favorite plants and easy to grow too!)
Moss Balls
Java Fern
Rotala rotundifolia

Shrimps: 


25+ RCS with some very nicely colored ones...Very close to painted fire reds (The one with the best color is currently holding eggs!!!! YES!)


About 12-14 CRS S/SS Grade
Equipment:


Marina 25w Heater
Petrified wood (I guess this counts as equipment)
Fluval nano filter
13w 6400k Fluval lamp
*Can you guys please help me, I plan on only keeping only the plants I currently have in there but would I need DIY c02, and EI dosing with this tank? I have the dry ferts already, but would Excel and Flourish comprehensive + Flourish Iron be cost efficient and enough for this tank???*​

ENJOY!!! Feedback is appreciated!


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

OH MAN!!!

All these Ebi threads are making me sad. I want to get one SO bad but my choice of store is out of stock until the end of Jan.


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## Cynth (Sep 11, 2010)

I really like the hardscape, it looks great. Sorry I have no plant/fert assistance. I am leaning moss and easy plants in my EBI.


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## J-P (Oct 17, 2010)

that is one sweet set up!! much better than my simple tank! Boy did you ever spoil them 

The only thing I can recommend is that you cover the filter intakes. Once they start breeding, you don't want to loose those fry to an aggressive filter 

CO2 would be good. The Crystal reds have to have water on the slightly acidic side to breed happily and the water should be super soft...


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

Yeah the soil brings the ph down to 6.5 or 6.8, something around there. Someone on the forum actually tested the soil. I actually put a bunch of sponges into the first compartment of the filter so that the smaller shrimps wont get sucked up. 


thanks for the positive comments everyone !!!


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

Some pics of my shrimps...Can someone tell me more about the grading of these shrimp?

My favorite one out of all of them...









Same shrimp again....










My berried Cherry/Fire red shrimp(Do you think this is actually red enough to be considered a fire red?)


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

The plant is misrepresented as Rotala Indica by a pretty large aquatic plant retailer. I have actually emailed them numerous times trying to get them to stop but I have never even received a return message from them. It is actually Rotala Rotundifolia. 

Here is the info from APC (click the links). 

Rotundifolia

Indica

Tank looks nice too!


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

bsmith said:


> The plant is misrepresented as Rotala Indica by a pretty large aquatic plant retailer. I have actually emailed them numerous times trying to get them to stop but I have never even received a return message from them. It is actually Rotala Rotundifolia.
> 
> Here is the info from APC (click the links).
> 
> ...


thanks a lot, after seeing the pictures they are clearly the rotundifolia and look nothing like the indica. I edited the OP.


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## J-P (Oct 17, 2010)

chumlee said:


> Some pics of my shrimps...Can someone tell me more about the grading of these shrimp?


http://www.invertplanet.com/CRS.html

looks like an SS grade double circle type.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Yep PI is my favorite site to use a grading scale from. Those are some good clean looking shrimp. How many do you have and what are the parameters of the water in the tank?


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

I have 3 big Fire reds like the one in the picture, 20+ smaller RCS, 13+ CRS. The one in the picture seems to be the highest grade, I just got them today though. I have a marina 25w heater so It's not adjustable and my temps stay at 78, a little too high for the CRS but not too bad. the Soil adjusts the water to a ph of anywhere in between 6.5-6.8 but I still have to keep an eye on my ph because It might take around a week for the full buffering to take place.


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## J-P (Oct 17, 2010)

check you Kh / Gh ... they should be really low if you want to breed.

If not, I wouldn't worry about it too much.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

I dont have a Gh/kh tester....fail. I am pretty sure that the soil buffers everything though, just like ADA soil, it lowers hardness and ph to my understanding?
I would like it if the CRS and the RCS would breed (the RCS have already started) but Im not looking for hundreds of shrimp. Im in it to look at them and enjoy them, not sell them. I will let everyone know how this soil works though as far as breeding the shrimp because I have hard water where I live.


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## J-P (Oct 17, 2010)

The substrate looks like Red Bee Sand 

If you can, maybe not now but later, get a RO/DI system. I really hate them but for crystal red shrimp you kind of need it (for breeding). Or if it is a smaller tank use distilled water and top it off with tap to get the levels you want.

Eventually you'll find that balance.. the % of distilled (or RO/DI) and tap with each water change. It is a lot of chem but it is simple and can be done.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I concur with what JP said for the most part. 

The soil does buffer the watercroba degree but don't be hard headed like I was when I first started keeping CRS a few years ago. I believed that the AS would magically cure all the problems with my water my shrimp would breed like there was no tomorrow and that was that. Well unfortunately this wasn't the case. My adult shrimp were fine and the females were even berried just like they should be. But the babies could not take all the minerals that were still in the water. Over the course of a year or so all of my CRS but 3 passed due to age (from what I could gather). At this point I finally broke down and got a RO/DI filter. Ever since the fourth 50% WC with untreated water from the filter my shrimp have been flourishing. To be more precise the soil (in my case ADA in your case red bee sand) only has compounds and nutrients in them that counter act the minerals that make water hard to lower the PH, they do not remove them. For some that is enough for me not so much (tap ph 7.8 kh4 gh15+). 

You really either need to get a local water report from your water provider (very specific) or get an API KH Gh test (not that accurate) to see what your dealing with. 

As far as the RO filters are concerned the biggest pain I have had was forking out the $150 for a good unit the first time. All I have had to do over the past 10 months is replace the sediment filter, carbon filter and DI resin and that's it. If you are interested in a filter just LMK and I will happily supply you links to the one I am running ( at the time the best quality filter for the money) and a couple others that are better for the same money and another that is even better and totally complete for a bit more.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

bsmith said:


> (in my case ADA in your case red bee sand)


Just to clarify, Im using the Fluval Shrimp stratum that came with the tank.

Thanks a lot for all of that info, I am trying to save up for a canister filter to go on my 29g tank and I really dont think that a RO system will happen for quite a while. If I happen to have the money and I see a good deal on SnS I will definitely jump on it though.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

chumlee said:


> Just to clarify, Im using the Fluval Shrimp stratum that came with the tank.
> 
> Thanks a lot for all of that info, I am trying to save up for a canister filter to go on my 29g tank and I really dont think that a RO system will happen for quite a while. If I happen to have the money and I see a good deal on SnS I will definitely jump on it though.


Po-tay-to/po-tah-to

The soils all do the same thing regardless of brand or what that specific company/employee of a LFS says. The point of my comments was to let you know that unless your tap (or whatever water your putting in the tank) is not too far off from the CRS' liking then without purchasing a proper RO/DI water filtration system your efforts will simply be an exercise in futility.


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## J-P (Oct 17, 2010)

+1 bsmith

In your tank.. you have what is called Total Dissolved Solids or TDS for short. The typical keeper can't read for these but there are tools to do so. The Kh reading has a direct effect on your Ph. Understanding this relationship will keep your water quality up and improve your breeding rate, if that is what you are after. The cherry red shrimp are not picky when it comes to water quality. They are the guppies of the shrimp family. The Crystal Red Shrimp are more conservative. They like their water quality in a certain range. If it is not in that range, the offspring will perish, and you have to re-test and adjust accordingly.


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

You could buy some RO water from your local grocery store or LFS for your water changes.
I haven't bough an RO system yet, so I just refill a 5g jug cost me $1.50 
I had the same experience with ADA soil as bsmith, the buffering capabilities of this soil are short lived in hard tap water. I didnt lose any CRS, they just stopped breeding.
I have an EBI setup, one thing I noticed about the Fluval stratum is that it didn't lower the ph of my tap water as much as the ADA did. Its is some nice soil though.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

Would I have to use something like seachem equilibrium or would just adding the water straight from the lfs suffice?


Moe said:


> You could buy some RO water from your local grocery store or LFS for your water changes.
> I haven't bough an RO system yet, so I just refill a 5g jug cost me $1.50
> I had the same experience with ADA soil as bsmith, the buffering capabilities of this soil are short lived in hard tap water. I didnt lose any CRS, they just stopped breeding.
> I have an EBI setup, one thing I noticed about the Fluval stratum is that it didn't lower the ph of my tap water as much as the ADA did. Its is some nice soil though.




Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

I sometimes mix RO with tap water.


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## J-P (Oct 17, 2010)

at this point you don't know what your tap is so speculating is useless. 


Start with distilled or Ro / Di water and adjust with tap. If you can't get a test kit for Gh / Kh / TDS it is a moot point. If you can't test you can't adjust.
Sorry for sounding harsh but those are the facts. Once you can get into the day to day maintenance you may not need to test for months. There is a rhythm to water quality that you will find out.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I have been dosing straight RO water to my shrimp tanks since I have been using it. I suspect the AS is helping me avoid re-mineralization though.


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## J-P (Oct 17, 2010)

bsmith said:


> I have been dosing straight RO water to my shrimp tanks since I have been using it. I suspect the AS is helping me avoid re-mineralization though.


but you have adequate test kits, no?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

J-P said:


> but you have adequate test kits, no?


Depends on your conception of test kits. 

My shrimp are thriving my plants ate healthy that's all I need. I hate testing it takes the fun out of things.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

bsmith said:


> Depends on your conception of test kits.
> 
> My shrimp are thriving my plants ate healthy that's all I need. I hate testing it takes the fun out of things.


I agree with that totally, the plants and the shrimp will always tell you how they are feeling. for me, who is just starting out, I think it will be beneficial to have a kh/gh test kit, so I will get one of those soon. Thanks for all of your concerns everybody.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

You don't need to spend all the money on distilled water- the shrimp don't care how much it cost lol. I have extremely high gh in Pittsburgh, so my solution was using zero water from the brita zero water filter. Makes the gh 0 for some reason. Then, Gh can be adjusted by adding tap water till it's in desired range. 

My cheapo solution.


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

I check my ph maybe once every few months, kh maybe twice a year, temp everyday.
I my shrimp are staying berried then I know everything is good


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> You don't need to spend all the money on distilled water- the shrimp don't care how much it cost lol. I have extremely high gh in Pittsburgh, so my solution was using zero water from the brita zero water filter. Makes the gh 0 for some reason. Then, Gh can be adjusted by adding tap water till it's in desired range.
> 
> My cheapo solution.


Yes but when you factor in cost of filter replacement and that it does not filter the water nearly as effectively as a full size RO system it then becomes not ad inciting. If it works for you thats all that matters so keep it up. Good suggestion.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

I have a brita filter pitcher type thing like this ...










Would that be similar to the zero water system, and what does it actually do to the water?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

chumlee said:


> I have a brita filter pitcher type thing like this ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe that Brita/Zero-water systems are similar in the same respect that mosura shrimp food and shirakura shrimp food are similar. Slightly different in construction but very similar end results. The filters use mechanical filtration (the same idea as in the filters on our aquariums), carbon helps lessen the taste of chlorine/lead/rusty/whatever tastes/smells you dont like out of your local water and Ion exchange resin that removes smaller impurities on a molecular level. 

Looking over the zero-water for a bit it seems that you can get a pitcher filter and 4 refills for the filter for $100 w/o shipping. This looks like it would be decent if you only had small tanks to do water changes like <5g. It would be a pain to dump the 1g or so of the filtered water into your tank then go and refill it, wait for it to filter and dump again. Not the most efficient process for a 30g WC. 

So again for comparison, you can get a pitcher type filtration system with refill cartridges (I include this because then you would have enough to filter the same amount of water as a decent RO/DI system) for ~$100 + shipping. The water will not be anywhere as pure as with a proper RO system, WC can be tedious at best but you can drink the water straight from the pitcher. 

With a RO/DI system (im talking about a decent quality one, not a $50 ebay special) you would have to invest $120-$200 for a good system. More of a pain to hook, have to figure out if you want to run a storage tank under your sink for ease of drinking, more bulky for sure. Im sure there are others.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

chumlee said:


> I have a brita filter pitcher type thing like this ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I honestly don't know if that would work because the zero water filtration is intense. What it does is it filters out the salinity (which includes gH), chlorine etc from water.

Maybe I'm transferring this from saltwater, but the salinity of water is the measure of dissolved solids (in salt water the most common dissolved solid is sodium chloride) but the filter probably filters out calcium and magnesium too (which directly effect gH) and lowers the gH. 

I personally have two of these in my house, just because I like clean water. They're about $30 at Target, and refills of four filters were like $12 if I remember right. Definitely a cheaper solution than a RO unit. And since I had them already, it worked for me lol.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> I honestly don't know if that would work because the zero water filtration is intense. What it does is it filters out the salinity (which includes gH), chlorine etc from water.
> 
> Maybe I'm transferring this from saltwater, but the salinity of water is the measure of dissolved solids (in salt water the most common dissolved solid is sodium chloride) but the filter probably filters out calcium and magnesium too (which directly effect gH) and lowers the gH.
> 
> I personally have two of these in my house, just because I like clean water. They're about $30 at Target, and refills of four filters were like $12 if I remember right. Definitely a cheaper solution than a RO unit. And since I had them already, it worked for me lol.


So the zero water system would work but not the brita?


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## odie (Dec 29, 2009)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> I honestly don't know if that would work because the zero water filtration is intense. What it does is it filters out the salinity (which includes gH), chlorine etc from water.
> 
> Maybe I'm transferring this from saltwater, but the salinity of water is the measure of dissolved solids (in salt water the most common dissolved solid is sodium chloride) but the filter probably filters out calcium and magnesium too (which directly effect gH) and lowers the gH.
> 
> I personally have two of these in my house, just because I like clean water. They're about $30 at Target, and refills of four filters were like $12 if I remember right. Definitely a cheaper solution than a RO unit. And since I had them already, it worked for me lol.


Salinity only has to do with salt content and what makes up salt. TDS is total dissolved solids. Specific Gravity is how dense the water is, the higher it is the easier it is to float as their is more "stuff" is in the water. Pure water is 1.0, saltwater is 1.024-1.026.

To measure these you need a refractometer for salinity, SG- a float/swing arm or bobber meter and for TDS a TDS meter. For the most part the first two will not help in freshwater .

To see how "pure" your water is you will need a TDS meter. Example when I make my saltwater batches for my reef tank my tap water is about 450. After my RO I am guessing it is under 20. After DI resin it is under 2 and shooting for zero.

You want to be serious about the more exotic fish or shrimp I would suggest investing in a RO. DI is not needed. Here is a good place for them, and good sutomer service and decent prices. 
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/75-gp-5-stage-ro-system-no-di.html

You should topoff all tanks with RO water as your TDS etc will continue to climb if you keep adding tapwater.


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## chilled_fire (Jun 4, 2010)

thats a nice setup you got there , am planning to get an Ebi soon so that i get the shrimps out of my 29g and add a couple of angelfish


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

HEY, are you copying my tanks  ????


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## chilled_fire (Jun 4, 2010)

^^^ lol, nope, ebi is a good tank for shrimps and since i want angelfish i would have to shift my shrimps to another tank , i have a 5Gallon betta tank but betta would love to eat them so Ebi is the only option


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## awight (Aug 21, 2010)

Just a quick heads up on the Ebi tank set ups. I was looking at getting one and the light that comes with the tank is only 13watts. Thats not even 2 watts per gallon so keep that in mind as that will really limit the plants that you'll be able to keep. Just something to keep in mind when planning your scape.

But you can always buy another fixture if you've got the coin!


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

The rotala rotundifolia that i've been growing has more than doubled in size so if anyone wants to try growing some, it does great. Also, the Carolina Fanwort grew a LOT! I trimmed it down though.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

I FOUND MY FIRST BABY PFR's today!!!!


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## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

Nice!!
The babies are REALLY SMALL to spot~!!!!


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## Lakehouse (May 13, 2009)

What are the dimensions of the ebi?


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

30cm x 30cm x 35cm


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## kharma (Sep 20, 2010)

http://www.melevsreef.com/shop/index.html There is a great site to get your ro unit from. Marc has some great products.


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## Viz (Feb 1, 2011)

OK so I got lost along the way. My tank is cycled I do beleive but I have not placed any shrimp in it yet or purchased any. The main reason is the kH and gH of the water is very low. My other freshwater tank is 6 kH and I was wanting the alkalinity to be around that range in the shrimp tank so I could feel comfortable that the pH will be more stable and not swing. Right now the pH in the tank is around 6.8 and 7.0 but the alkalinity is very low like almost zero. I am not sure what to do. Is the soil keeping the water buffered? I tried hardening the water by adding the minerals and such and even adding wonder shells but nothing is budging. I thought the water needed to be a bit harder than it is now for shrimp. At the moment I feel it is way too soft. Am I crazy or will the shrimp be ok? It is very wierd because I am using the same water I use in my other established tank which has the same pH but is definetly a lot harder than the water in the shrimp tank. Should I make the leap and introduce the shrimp?


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

Well I was having a problem because I have a water softener in my house. I just decided to use the softened water and I haven't been having any problems. I chose that because the buffered water from the soil was the closest to my water softener water ( I didnt want my fish / shrimp to have to acclimate to the water after every water change, i went for the most stable conditions). I recommend that you do the same, unless you have a major problem with your water, just go for the most stable conditions and try not to add any chemicals or anything. 

Having said that....i dont think that water being too soft is a problem....you can add barrs GH booster which many people dose on this forum for plants (adds calcium and magnesium). 

If you want to add something like RCS i think they should do fine (they are very adaptable to all temperatures and to most water conditions...) I would try out those first and then see if you can add some CRS or whatever you want to get into later on. Two things to remember first.....dont add shrimps that will interbreed and I personally wouldn't add a lot of new species shrimp at a time (if the shrimp dont like your water conditions you dont want to add like 30 of them at a time and have them all die, it would be better to add like 2 shrimp just to see if they are happy first) .


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

First Berried CRS. all of the RCS are doing great, including the little shrimplets. I have to do a little update on this tank. I turned it into a shrimp breeder rather than a visually pleasing tank lol I have plants floating everywhere.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Updates? Please?


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

sorry....since baseball started i've had no free time. I dont have any pics handy but i can telll you this tank has turned into a spare plant holding tank...lol I mightve said that in one of the older posts but the shrimp love the tank so...

Also, like 4 of my shrimp are berried....


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

UPDATE TIME

Here's my ebi as it sits right now.











I've decided to do a DSM with some HC. this is going to be my only tank right now, no more 20G rimless. I am also going to see if Hagen/Fluval can replace my light.


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## seank (Jul 7, 2011)

Nice Chum, gonna be sweet! :icon_smil


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