# Alternanthera reineckii mini is too high



## hunti (Feb 11, 2019)

Hello,

I have a long term problem with Alternanthera reineckii mini, which still grows high and does not form low bushes.

*Tank size:* 90x40x40cm, 144l

*Water parameters:*
temperature 26C
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 10
Fe 0,1
dGH 7
PO4 (Phosphorus) 0
pH 6,5

*Substrate* is something like Amazonia

*Lighting* 1x Chihiros LED A serie 90-110 cm 55W A901

Can you give me some idea where the problem is?

Thank you.


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## iamaloner (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm not an expert
But the light is probably not intense enough or that is not AR mini

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## Starwarsfan (Aug 12, 2018)

I too would agree you may not have enough light and its causing them to stretch. AR, AR mini and AR variegated all stay quite short for me. I run high light to possibly very high light.


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## hunti (Feb 11, 2019)

Can you recommend which light intensity would be optimal?


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## iamaloner (Jul 10, 2017)

Well it's probably the par output that's not great with the light. I would suggest being happy with what you presently have as the rest of the plants look very healthy. Otherwise it's a 300$ upgrade atleast just for one particular plant and it's not worth it 
I used ecotech radions xr15fw that cost 500 new and I have 3 over my 150gallon. I got then used for a good deal and even they cant grow some of the most demanding plants 

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## [email protected] (Apr 8, 2019)

Trimming back and replanting is the secret with the reineckii mini. If you keep on doing this long enough you will end up with a nice low bushes. At least thats what they told me


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## hunti (Feb 11, 2019)

[email protected]: I have already cut several times and always pulls up and the leaves are very thin and small.

I am thinking that I would replace it but I do not know another red plant that doesn't need that much light suitable for the aquarium center. I need red plant for design


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

i agree with iamaloner. looks like you were sold either rosaefolia or rosenavig as mini. the mini doesn't have as noticeable venation as the other two.


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## hunti (Feb 11, 2019)

milesm said:


> i agree with iamaloner. looks like you were sold either rosaefolia or rosenavig as mini. the mini doesn't have as noticeable venation as the other two.


I'm absolutely sure it is Alternanthera reineckii mini. It's the original from the Dennerle pot.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

I actually grow my AR mini under medium- medium high light, with minimal CO2 (or none) with the similar light and it doesnt stretch like that. 
Im not sure what you are dosing, but you did increase the saturation in your photo to try and make it look more red and cover the significant algae on the bottom leaves. So it seems to me the photo could be misleading.

I guess you could try more light and popper ferts.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

I’d suspect your 0 phosphate. It’s a mobile nutrient, it should never be 0. You can see your older lower leaves going necro because new growth is robbing old growth of phosphorus to grow.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

I'm not convinced it's a light intensity problem. The Chihiros A series is a capable light. What are your methods for trimming? Top and replant or are you allowing the bases to grow shoots? Also, phosphate should be present in the water, that could help a lot as well.


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## Starwarsfan (Aug 12, 2018)

Here is why I think it a light issue. like daveKS said your lower leaves are dying off and they have gone greenish yellow showing that even when they were healthy the lower leaves were not getting enough light to stay red/redish. It is very dark light wise on the lower leaf area. You don't have enough leaves on the stem for this to be due to shading from the top leaves. Another clue is the pogo thats right behind it. You can see the lower part of the stems have small needles or missing needles altogether. If they were well light then the whole stem should be full of needles and ones that are half an inch or longer then what they are. here is my pogostemon with regular AR right next to it. 









See the bushy short look of both plants and the longer needles on the pogo? That is well lit pogo/AR. Now DaveKS could be right about a nutrient deficiency but im not very good at deficiency identification. I could always be wrong on this but this is from my experience of growing both of these plants for at least the last 2 years.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Starwarsfan said:


> Here is why I think it a light issue. like daveKS said your lower leaves are dying off and they have gone greenish yellow showing that even when they were healthy the lower leaves were not getting enough light to stay red/redish. It is very dark light wise on the lower leaf area. You don't have enough leaves on the stem for this to be due to shading from the top leaves. Another clue is the pogo thats right behind it. You can see the lower part of the stems have small needles or missing needles altogether. If they were well light then the whole stem should be full of needles and ones that are half an inch or longer then what they are. here is my pogostemon with regular AR right next to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very astute but I’m still not totally convinced it’s light related in this case.

My AR mini is grown under about 65 PAR and it grows bushy, and it doesn’t require super frequent trimming either. Lower, shaded leaves do suffer so trimming is necessary, but not like it’s weekly.

Nutrient deficiencies can cause stems to drop lower leaves and phosphate deficiency can definitely have that effect, as the plants eat the lower leaves for nutrients.











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## Starwarsfan (Aug 12, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> Very astute but I’m still not totally convinced it’s light related in this case.
> 
> My AR mini is grown under about 65 PAR and it grows bushy, and it doesn’t require super frequent trimming either. Lower, shaded leaves do suffer so trimming is necessary, but not like it’s weekly.
> 
> ...



You are probably right. Even after 7 years of planted tanks I'm still finding myself learning things about plant needs and I probably am wrong about this one. NOW GIVE ME YOUR BEAUTIFUL CRYPTS!:grin2:


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Starwarsfan said:


> You are probably right. Even after 7 years of planted tanks I'm still finding myself learning things about plant needs and I probably am wrong about this one. NOW GIVE ME YOUR BEAUTIFUL CRYPTS!:grin2:




Hahaha I’m not saying you’re wrong, just theorizing.

Real talk let me get some shipping supplies and I can provide you with some runners.


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## Starwarsfan (Aug 12, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> Hahaha I’m not saying you’re wrong, just theorizing.
> 
> Real talk let me get some shipping supplies and I can provide you with some runners.
> 
> ...



Ah you don't have to do that. I have tons of crypts already. I was jokingly saying your plants are gorgeous and I wish I had crypts that big and lush. I do thank you very much for the offer though.


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## aydemir (Sep 20, 2012)

Not sure what the problem is here (gravitating towards the NOT ar mini...), but I would also say its not light. I had AR mini in a 1.5 gallon 'starter kit' that came with a really crummy LED light I actually managed to grow it in there. It wasn't happy but it still had the same shape as a regular AR mini grown under better lighting, the color was just worse.


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

hunti said:


> I'm absolutely sure it is Alternanthera reineckii mini. It's the original from the Dennerle pot.





aydemir said:


> Not sure what the problem is here (gravitating towards the NOT ar mini...), but I would also say its not light. I had AR mini in a 1.5 gallon 'starter kit' that came with a really crummy LED light I actually managed to grow it in there. It wasn't happy but it still had the same shape as a regular AR mini grown under better lighting, the color was just worse.


it could well have been mislabeled by dennerle. did you ask your dealer if they've gotten the same growth pattern from others?


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## hunti (Feb 11, 2019)

Hello guys,

Thank you very much for all the advice that could help me roud:. Here are more information about the aquarium condition.

It has been mentioned that the original photo is too saturated. It's because of the camera mode, not because I want to cover the algae which is less present.

Here I attach more photos in normal mode.

*About fertilizer dosing:*
I add every other day 2ml easylife profito, 2ml easylife fero, 2ml seachem flourish trace and *2ml seachem flourish phosphorus*. It is strange that the value of phosphorus in the water is zero (I use JBL tests that should be of good quality). However, I learned that the active substrate absorbs phosphorus into itself. So, I believe that phosphorus is present in the substrate.

*A few days ago I planted the plant cuttings again.* Here's the current photo. Now it looks nice, but I already have the experience that the plants will go up again. Alternatera has narrow leaves and is thin. It looks unhealthy and dwarfed:









closer look:









A few days ago I bought a *new second light*, I hope it will help to lighten the aquarium better, especially the edges (on this photo is Alternatera before cutting):









There is another problem I am struggling with. Some leaves of plants have small holes, gradually glassing and falling. This problem is primarily affecting Hygrophila corymbosa 'Stricta' and Hygrophila polysperma.

Hygrophila corymbosa 'Stricta':









Hygrophila polysperma:









Despite these problems, I am generally satisfied with the aquarium status. However, I try to have a healthy and prosperous aquarium and still learn. I believe there is a mistake somewhere and someone will help me find it.

:nerd:


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

@hunti
I find that for whatever reason my issues always stand from Potassium and Magnesium- rarely I find its calcium or pho. If your deficient, then try dosing them individually. But everything should be in proportion, providing more potassium will increase demand for all the other nutrients... vicious cycle. Im not informed on the easylife brand. I use Thrive/Flourish/Excel... and often end up using a bit of equilibrium as that pesky magnesium kicks my plants butts. I dose potassium (extra) separately at times when I notice leaf distress.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

One factor I can't find you mentioning anywhere is if you run CO2 on the tank?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

I will say that AR mini is a plant that I struggled to figure out in my tank. I had really bad luck with tissue cultures in the past, so I bought some submerged grown stuff from someone on this forum. It arrived healthy and happy, so I planted it and left it alone for a long time out of paranoia. 

After a long enough time, it was no longer mini, but that gave me lots of growth to harvest and maintain in the more typical AR mini look.

TL;DR you may need to trim more.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

hunti said:


> There is another problem I am struggling with. Some leaves of plants have small holes, gradually glassing and falling. This problem is primarily affecting Hygrophila corymbosa 'Stricta' and Hygrophila polysperma.
> 
> Hygrophila polysperma:
> 
> ...


Been growing polysperma for over 5 years.
The top 6-8" always looks primo, the bottoms I have look just like yours.
Would blame this one on shading or light.
Unless I move this to my hi-light tank, which I will not since it tends to take over very quickly.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

For hygrophila polysperma you can check your potassium and/or magnesium, it could help, but like Marineland guppy says leaves in the shade often do that.

Michel.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

OK, getting back to this. Your 2ml dosing of everything makes me think you really didn’t put much thought into it. 

Your Stricta is showing all classic symptoms of deficiency, curled edges, deformed leafs, premature necrosis in leaves.

For your tank which I will base off 138L (144L-6L for gravel/ornaments) and CO2 and doing every other day dosing this is what you should be dosing.

Mon/Wed/Fri
Profito 4.6ml
S. phos 10ml

Tues/Thur/Sat
S. trace 3ml
Fero 2.3ml

Sun
Water change/reset

Your Profito is a AIO complete and already has trace/iron so you should not be adding extra trace/iron on same days dosing. I’d actually monitor iron levels on day1 one hr after dosing profito then also on day two about 2hrs into light cycle to get a rough gauge on trace uptake. It may require a adjustment of +-10-20% to get it right, as plants start growing better you can expect need for dosing of extra micro to increase slightly.

Seachem phos I figured on a 1ppm target but you might need up to 2x more to get it up then you can slack off to maintain. It’s actually a very weak solution overall but that same high dilution makes it very easy for people to adjust to their needs.

If you want me rework it to a twice a week plan let me know, I’ve got rates noted and can rework it for you easily.


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## hunti (Feb 11, 2019)

Thank you very much for this useful post. I will try this concept and see if it will be better roud:



DaveKS said:


> OK, getting back to this. Your 2ml dosing of everything makes me think you really didn’t put much thought into it.
> 
> Your Stricta is showing all classic symptoms of deficiency, curled edges, deformed leafs, premature necrosis in leaves.
> 
> ...


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> OK, getting back to this. Your 2ml dosing of everything makes me think you really didn’t put much thought into it.
> 
> Your Stricta is showing all classic symptoms of deficiency, curled edges, deformed leafs, premature necrosis in leaves.
> 
> ...


Sounds way too complicated(and I like complicated). Someone in this thread should convert all this to ppm so we can follow along.
I agree adding the second Chihiros A series light (I used to have this light) was a good idea and the symptoms are definitely light related. They may also be CO2 and Ferts related but I can't say until I know more.


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