# Wow. I'm a bit overwhelmed.



## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

This is my 55 gallon tank. I figured since I've never done plants before I should do low tech for starters. My light is a 40 watt fluorescent in a basic hood light. I'm a bit overwhelmed with information. Can I use the light I have? Or do I need to replace it with something brighter? I'd be grateful for any suggestions. Thank you.


----------



## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

If that is one T8 bulb, then it may be a good one. Check to see what is written on the end of it.
This would be a good bulb for plants and visible light.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...?N=5yc1vZbm3zZ1z0trbkZ1z0twpmZ1z0u18wZ1z0vvri
I gave you a list of low light plants in a link. Most any of those will grow in that light you have. No one expects anyone to "get it" right at first. That is why I said good idea to read about it first before buying "stuff"/plants etc.
And that is why the forum is here... to help. It's also a good place to get plants from.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56042
For a 55g you may not have much in the way of height problems, but still I'd ask
about any plants you might like before getting them.
For example the Amazon Sword gets 22" tall and almost that big around.
It might be great in a 120g tank that is 18" front to back, but a little cramped in a 55g at 12" front to back.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

If you're going low tech, you'll need better substrate, not plain gravel.

All you need to know is plants need water, light, nutrients, and CO2 to live. A nutrient rich substrate will provide nutrients and lots of bacteria to produce CO2 for you. Don't create too much surface agitation or you'll lose all your precious CO2. You have the water & light covered.

As for plants, stick them in and see what grows 
Go for low tech plants that don't need high lights and injected CO2.


----------



## DHElder (Apr 18, 2015)

Yes BettaBabe. It is very overwhelming. I am working on putting together my first fish tank and it will be a planted one and I can see that no matter what method I use for my tank, it will be trial and error to get it right.

Here is some information that I am using for low light plants for my 20 gal long. Will likely buy from there. They have a low light plant category so it makes it easy to find those plants.

http://www.plantedaquariumscentral.com/

Myself, I am going with various stemmed plants that are easy to keep trimmed, some slow growing anubias on my driftwood and a Cryptocoryne undulata that is only suppose to grow 6" tall. That will large enough for my shallow 20L.


I liked the approach from Mass Aquariums on a low tech low light tank. Matt just uses a 17 watt fluorescent that came with his 29 gallon tank. His tanks look good. I like how your 55 gal looks. I'll be using a Diana Walstad/Tom Barr combined method for my tank to hopefully reduce the amount of water changes to do. Not using dirt/Miracle Grow as suggested by Walstad but Leonardite per Barr's suggestion. Will allow me to move the plants around without killing up dirt and upsetting the tank's balance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XeStXhua8


----------



## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

DHElder said:


> Not using dirt/Miracle Grow as suggested by Walstad but Leonardite per Barr's suggestion. Will allow me to move the plants around without killing up dirt and upsetting the tank's balance.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XeStXhua8



I'll agree that a dirt tank has a certain amount of trial and error, however if done properly you can avoid kicking up dirt into the water column moving plants in a dirt capped tank. Cutting roots around the entire circumference of the plant to be moved, 1" deep (you should have a 2" cap), and be watchful whilst pulling the plant, do it gently and SLOWLY, shaking the plant so as to allow the cap material to fill in the void you are creating. Of course you do want to limit the frequency of moving plants around in a dirt/cap tank and starting with other subs in the beginning will help you learn what you can do and what not to do when/if you move on to a dirt/cap tank


----------



## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

Thank you. I knew I needed better substrate. The gravel and much of the decorations came with the tank which my husband bought used. I didn't see t8 written anywhere on the bulb. It says "F40PL/AQ-ECO hg wide spectrum 40W USA" it's ge plant and aquarium ecolux. I'll be honest, I have no clue what that means. I have never paid attention to lights all that much.

Bump: Other than looking bad, what is the problem with stirred up dirt? Do the fish not like it?


----------



## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

BettaBabe said:


> Thank you. I knew I needed better substrate. The gravel and much of the decorations came with the tank which my husband bought used. I didn't see t8 written anywhere on the bulb. It says "F40PL/AQ-ECO hg wide spectrum 40W USA" it's ge plant and aquarium ecolux. I'll be honest, I have no clue what that means. I have never paid attention to lights all that much.
> 
> Bump: Other than looking bad, what is the problem with stirred up dirt? Do the fish not like it?


Quick Google search result.



> https://www.iqlightbulbs.com/ge_49893_f40pl_aq_eco.asp
> *Brand:* GE
> *Name:* F40PL/AQ/ECO
> 
> ...


Bump: BettaBabe where in Kentucky are you East or West?


----------



## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

> BettaBabe where in Kentucky are you East or West?


Thanks! Is a t12 still low light? I'm in Glasgow. It's south central. I thought I updated that.......


----------



## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

BettaBabe said:


> Thanks! Is a t12 still low light?


When it comes to grading lights what you want to be concerned with is the K rating. The bulb you have is 3100K, ideally for plants you want somewhere around the 6400k range, though you should be able to keep Amazon Swords, most crypts, anubis, water sprite, java fern, even many mosses if not all. 



BettaBabe said:


> I'm in Glasgow. It's south central. I thought I updated that.......


I'm in Morehead/Farmers area, about 45 minutes east of Lexington. I'm getting ready to redo my high tech tank tomorrow and I was wondering if you were close. I thought I'd offer you a few plants if you were that would be fine in your tank, but your several hours away.


----------



## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

FatherLandDescendant said:


> When it comes to grading lights what you want to be concerned with is the K rating. The bulb you have is 3100K, ideally for plants you want somewhere around the 6400k range, though you should be able to keep Amazon Swords, most crypts, anubis, water sprite, java fern, even many mosses if not all.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in Morehead/Farmers area, about 45 minutes east of Lexington. I'm getting ready to redo my high tech tank tomorrow and I was wondering if you were close. I thought I'd offer you a few plants if you were that would be fine in your tank, but your several hours away.


That's so sweet of you!


----------



## DHElder (Apr 18, 2015)

BettaBabe said:


> Thank you. I knew I needed better substrate. The gravel and much of the decorations came with the tank which my husband bought used. I didn't see t8 written anywhere on the bulb. It says "F40PL/AQ-ECO hg wide spectrum 40W USA" it's ge plant and aquarium ecolux. I'll be honest, I have no clue what that means. I have never paid attention to lights all that much.
> 
> Bump: Other than looking bad, what is the problem with stirred up dirt? Do the fish not like it?


From what I have read as I am still working on setting up my first tank, can kick up NH4 (ammonium) from the soil which will harm the fish. I have read you could do things like boil the soil first before putting in the tank but not interested in that. :icon_smil

FatherLandDescendant offered a good way to pull plants from the dirt that I haven't read before so I will be making a note of that for myself.  I also read to shut off your filter for a couple of hours to not stir things up when you do this. Not sure how good that idea is though.

Bump:


FatherLandDescendant said:


> I'll agree that a dirt tank has a certain amount of trial and error, however if done properly you can avoid kicking up dirt into the water column moving plants in a dirt capped tank. Cutting roots around the entire circumference of the plant to be moved, 1" deep (you should have a 2" cap), and be watchful whilst pulling the plant, do it gently and SLOWLY, shaking the plant so as to allow the cap material to fill in the void you are creating. Of course you do want to limit the frequency of moving plants around in a dirt/cap tank and starting with other subs in the beginning will help you learn what you can do and what not to do when/if you move on to a dirt/cap tank


If I go the dirt route, I was going to use 1" of Miracle Gro, then an inch of aquarium gravel per Walstad's suggestion. But no matter what I read, seems the dirt route looses its properties fairly quickly. I have read from 9 months to a year or two. So hoping the Walstad/Barr combination of suggestions will help with replenishing things, including the soil. I find Barr's suggestion of using Leonardite as a possible alternative method to use so I don't necessarily have to do the above. Just not sure of the downsides to that approach as anyway you go, there is a downsides to the upsides. Just need to figure what I want to work with. 

Have a two months before we're finished redoing the living room so still doing research as to which route I will go. They all seem to work if you have the patience to stick with them, even the route with just gravel and water changes with ferts dosing.


----------



## nayr (Jan 18, 2014)

consider upgrading your light.. If you want to grow plants its the primary energy source so its probably the first thing you should invest in.

get something you can adjust, having a fixed output is kind of a pain.. If you stay with fluorescent get a nice multi-bulb fixture so if you need more or less light you can add/remove bulbs.. if you go LED get something you can dim... and dont get anything that cant do at least medium lighting... Too much light and you get algae problems, too little light and you get algae problems.. its all about balance and finding that balance is trickier the more variables you fix.. Ideally you want to be able to easily adjust light/nutrients/co2, but in low-medium tech not much we can do for co2 so if you go with a fixed lighting solution your only option remaining is adjusting nutrients.

I havent done dirted but its not something as a newbie to planted tanks I was willing to try quite yet, seems like its a potential disaster and takes some time to get established.. Personally I'd rather just feed em chemicals constantly so I have more control over whats in the water column and available to the plants.. I dont buy into the natural/organic hype, its 100% artificial to grow plants inside in a fish tank so there is nothing at all organic about what we do.


----------



## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

Thank you so much!


----------



## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Your Tank Lighting*



BettaBabe said:


> This is my 55 gallon tank. I figured since I've never done plants before I should do low tech for starters. My light is a 40 watt fluorescent in a basic hood light. I'm a bit overwhelmed with information. Can I use the light I have? Or do I need to replace it with something brighter? I'd be grateful for any suggestions. Thank you.


Hello Bet...

You don't have much light. If it's a 40 watt florescent, it's a T12. This lamp provides a wider area of light, but not very intense, so you should keep to the slow growing plants that will do well in low light like Anaubias, Java fern, and any of the mosses like Christmas and Singapore. You can also grow a floating plant like Anacharis or Hornwort.

Keep the water high in minerals by changing out half the water weekly. Any fish you have will appreciate the water more if there's little or no dissolved wastes in it.

B


----------



## Archaeofish (Dec 18, 2014)

DHElder;7801626
I'll be using a Diana Walstad/Tom Barr combined method for my tank to hopefully reduce the amount of water changes to do. Not using dirt/Miracle Grow as suggested by Walstad but Leonardite per Barr's suggestion. Will allow me to move the plants around without killing up dirt and upsetting the tank's balance.
[/QUOTE said:


> Just fyi, because I thought about going the leonardite direction as well: Diamond black now no longer makes granular leondardite--only the liquid variety, which is NOT what you want to use. I found it really difficult to find a source of granular leonardite online, so I ended up going with a light dusting of peat under 2-3 inches of ecocomplete.


----------



## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...226837/100113597?N=5yc1vZbm3zZ1z0trbkZ1z0u18w


----------



## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

Let's say I replace the topper with a custom cut sheet of plexiglass. Can I use any kind of bulb suspended above it as long as I get the proper wattage or lux or whatever I'm going by?


----------



## nayr (Jan 18, 2014)

plexiglass will need cleaned constantly or else it will lower your lighting.. most planted tanks are open top.

suspending the light above the tank raises adds distance between the light and substrate so it will lower the PAR levels.. its one way to adjust the output being able to raise/lower the light. Having it suspended above the tank has a few advantages, the PAR at the top of the tank is closer to the rest of the tank, and the tank is often better lit with less shade.


----------



## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Plexiglass covers don't really work well. It will warp till some of the edges won't make contact/w the tank. I don't care for the factory glass tops either as they do have a strip of plastic down the middle that interferes with light coming in.
Much easier on my two 10g tanks but I get a couple of pieces of glass cut to fit so there is a gap at one end for filter/hoses, heater cords etc. and then again in the middle somewhere to allow me to get a finger under them to take them off. Results in solid glass from one end to about the middle, with a 1" gap there and then on to about 1" from the other end. 1/8" glass make me feel better about not breaking it.
Dozens of lights are available. Either Fluorescent or LED. Dimmers don't work on Fluorescent. Prices can be from $50-$400. High/low range in both kinds.


----------



## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

That's good to know about the plexiglass. I don't plan on getting any jumpers, so coverless is an option. I was thinking of pendant lights with regular household bulbs. I'd need full spectrum, right? Will that work?


----------



## nayr (Jan 18, 2014)

you might search around and look at what people have been doing with the high power spiral CFL bulbs.. I think there about the most affordable way to get to medium-high light levels, work well suspended, and can look pretty nice with decent fixtures.

pic of a random tank I found using google image search:


----------



## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

That does look nice. Thanks.


----------



## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

A budget is also helpful


----------



## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi Bettababe, I used pendant lights over a 75g with bulbs specified for plant growth and it worked really well. At the time, it was with soil and a gravel cap using the Walstead method, growing low-med light plants. It didn't require any additional co2 or supplements and did really well. It was inexpensive, required very little maintenance and I loved the look of the pendant lighting. :smile:


----------



## Ed_ (Mar 26, 2015)

mistergreen said:


> Don't create too much surface agitation or you'll lose all your precious CO2.


 Isn't this bad advice for a low tech tank since your CO2 is coming from the air mixing with the water? I'm new to planted tanks too, so excuse me if I'm mistaken about this.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Ed_ said:


> Isn't this bad advice for a low tech tank since your CO2 is coming from the air mixing with the water? I'm new to planted tanks too, so excuse me if I'm mistaken about this.


Co2 from air is minimal, around 2-3ppm by weight (used to measure in water), equivalent to 700ppm by volume (used to measure in air).
Most of the co2 is generated in the tank with a rich substrate, around 16-20ppmw.

Cover the tank will help keep the co2 in. The reason why plant under water need so much co2 is there's a barrier around the leaves that makes it hard for co2 to be absorbed through the pores.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Ed_ (Mar 26, 2015)

mistergreen said:


> Co2 from air is minimal, around 2-3ppm by weight (used to measure in water), equivalent to 700ppm by volume (used to measure in air).
> Most of the co2 is generated in the tank with a rich substrate, around 16-20ppmw.
> 
> Cover the tank will help keep the co2 in. The reason why plant under water need so much co2 is there's a barrier around the leaves that makes it hard for co2 to be absorbed through the pores.
> ...


 Thanks for that info. I searched briefly but couldn't find any articles on that topic. Can you point me to any reference material about how CO2 is produced in the substrate and under what conditions? Where did you get those (ppm) numbers from?


----------



## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

I believe it's just simple aerobic respiration by the bacteria breaking down the organic matter in the soil. Intake oxygen, expel CO2?


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Yup, aerobic bacteria. Read Diana Walstad's book on natural aquarium. The numbers are from me measuring with a co2 sensor. I'll write a paper on it or something when I have the time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

You need a small amount of surface agitation to keep a film from forming on the surface.
This would cut off most exchange of Oxygen and CO2.
Fish respiration also adds CO2 to the water.
So a small amount of surface agitation gives some loss of CO2 in an injected CO2
tank, but this is a trade off for the Oxygen gained by that same agitation.
That way the Oxygen stays high enough for the fish.
Excess agitation you want to avoid. You tube has a vid showing what they consider 
to be correct amount of it but I don't have a link. Someone on here may have a link.


----------

