# PLAKAT female betta vs. VEILTAIL female betta??? Whats the difference???



## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

HEllo everyone. I hope someone can really answer my question. I cant tell the difference between a Plakat female betta and a Veiltail female betta. What are the major differences that concludes each into their own category.


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## In.a.Box (Dec 8, 2011)

The ray ^^


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

yes, difference in the fins/rays.


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## cecile1 (Jun 7, 2012)

Veil tails have longer tails and fins where as the planket tails are generally short tailed and fins. Just type the different types into google images , some pretty good images will help you to see the difference. Are you planning on getting a little friend ?


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## battered (Jan 1, 2012)

^ That's the difference between _male_ bettas. The different is a lot more subtle with females.


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## Wulfyn (Mar 20, 2012)

Having betta fry that are on thier 3rd week I decided I need to know what thier mother is exactly. Just found this hope it helps:

http://aquaticpassion.animal-world.com/index.php?showtopic=879


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

cecile1 said:


> Veil tails have longer tails and fins where as the planket tails are generally short tailed and fins. Just type the different types into google images , some pretty good images will help you to see the difference. Are you planning on getting a little friend ?


Yep. I have a male already. Just don't know that my female is. I have Pics, but idk how to put it on here. lol.


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

Wulfyn said:


> Having betta fry that are on thier 3rd week I decided I need to know what thier mother is exactly. Just found this hope it helps:
> 
> http://aquaticpassion.animal-world.com/index.php?showtopic=879


_*Thanks. Though Pure Plakats will always have only two rays or sometimes only one ray on the Caudal fin, though I've seen plakat female bettas having two rays as well and that is the confusing thing. Like is there any other "up your face" signs of which is which? lol. That link is very helpful; though it only completes towards certain common types. BUT this link is very helpful compared to other sites I've seen. *_


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

Hey. Thank you alot everyone. Can anyone give me photos of the two because alot of the pictures on Google are always under a different name and such. Also they are always Halfmoon Plakats.


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

mistergreen said:


> yes, difference in the fins/rays.


_*rays as in what? sharper? thnks*_


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the branching of the rays in the caudal fin (tail) separates hms from other tail types
this is an hm female: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/BettySplendens/suporn_goldfemale.jpg
see the tree-like things coming out of her body and through the tail, branching as they go? those are the rays. halfmoons can spread their tails 180 degrees because each ray branches into 4 or more rays by the time it reaches the end of the tail. this female has 6-8 branches (depending which ray you count).

here is a vt female: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3656/3460847991_8570daf820.jpg
see how each of here rays only branches in 2? with less branching she cannot spread her fins 180 degrees.

pk (plakats) have shorter fins then other types. there are hmpk fish, that are plakats, with 4+ ray branches giving them a 180 degree caudal spread. female hmpk: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LeSEUUObjMM/T8TQsqB5i4I/AAAAAAAAAZo/wCuLM25reb0/s1600/DSC_0032.JPG
and there are ctpks, vtpks (which are just pks) and dtpks.


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> the branching of the rays in the caudal fin (tail) separates hms from other tail types
> this is an hm female: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/BettySplendens/suporn_goldfemale.jpg
> see the tree-like things coming out of her body and through the tail, branching as they go? those are the rays. halfmoons can spread their tails 180 degrees because each ray branches into 4 or more rays by the time it reaches the end of the tail. this female has 6-8 branches (depending which ray you count).
> 
> ...



Ah. I can tell now. Though a Plakat females anal fin would be different from a veiltails anal fin correct? My male plakat only has two rays.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

not necessarily. the shape of the anal fin is for sexing the fish (males tend to have pointier, longer anal fins than females of the same spawn). though a pk has shorter fins, and vts have longer fins than most tail types, so a pk female is more likely to have the feminine rectangle-shaped anal fin, and a vt female more likely to have a macho anal fin thats almost as pointy as her brothers.

if he has only 2 ray branches, he is still a pk. just not an hmpk. 
like i said before, pk gene(s) controls the length of the fins, not the caudal spread which is variable as the other tail types combine very easily with pk. 

are you looking for a matching female for your male? 
post a pic of him and ill let you know if i run across a similar female.


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> not necessarily. the shape of the anal fin is for sexing the fish (males tend to have pointier, longer anal fins than females of the same spawn). though a pk has shorter fins, and vts have longer fins than most tail types, so a pk female is more likely to have the feminine rectangle-shaped anal fin, and a vt female more likely to have a macho anal fin thats almost as pointy as her brothers.
> 
> if he has only 2 ray branches, he is still a pk. just not an hmpk.
> like i said before, pk gene(s) controls the length of the fins, not the caudal spread which is variable as the other tail types combine very easily with pk.
> ...



Thanks. I know that a lot of PK females have only two rays as well, if they were not mixed with HM Betta's. So interbreeding a PK male with a VT female would cause an outcome of about 60% PK tail? How about the other way around??? I've also been told that females generally carry the body structure gene(s). IS this true?

I have some pictures of the male. One as he is normal with out flaring. And some with him flaring. I have been trying to find a suitable mate for him PK+PK. Though a lot of the females are expensive sometimes even with out shipping, but that is suppose to mean good quality correct? If you come across any suitable female for him. Let me know and I'll have to see if I should really branch out for it.

I have two females but one is a VT (larger one) and I am not sure what the other female is. Her fins don't look nothing at all near the larger VT female.

_Female Betta. DUnno what type it is. IF you can help me identify it, thanks._



_CLOSE UP_. Her fins are now tucked. Not really flaring or stretching making her anal fin look like a VT. IS she a VT though; in the above Photo her Anal fin branches out and spreads square like with a sharper down turn in the front. I cant seem to make her flare. Useless, she doesn't flare at all. ; (



_MAlE PK: Flaring.
_





_
Not flaring:_ 

*PICTURES WILL BE POSTED SEPARATE SINCE I WAS HAVING PROBLEMS WITH PUTTING THEM ALL TOGETHER BECAUSE I PUT THEM IN WRONG ORDER. LOL!*


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

PICtures in order from above reply. Lol... hope it is not confusing. 

_
Female:_

View attachment 51233

_
Closeup:_

View attachment 51234


_Flaring male:_

View attachment 51231


View attachment 51232


_No flare of male:_
View attachment 51235


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

HOpe it helps. and the Picture show up.


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

Also the female has four rays total. Two to start off with and then splits into two more. ; )


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ive never worked with pks so i cant really tell you the exact outcome of a pk x vt cross, but i have read that pk is recessive to long fins, whether it is a strong case of incomplete dominance (like with dt and st) and to what extent, i cant say.

females and males have slightly different body shapes. males are more streamlined, and females more top-heavy. males are more prone to be hunchbacked and shovelnosed, while females are more likely to have pinched caudals. 
both contribute to the gene pool of the offspring though, and you want good form in both of them.

i cant see the pics of the females in either post (links in second post dont go anywhere).

the male looks like a 'wild type' pk. 
here is a pk female of that coloration: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettaswt&1342913408
expensive though, $25 plus shipping and transhipper fees. but check that category from time to time and youll likely land on something.

you could also get a hmpk female. this will make fish with 2-4 ray branches (delta pks mostly), and then a backcross to the female would yield superdelta pks and maybe some hmpks, or a backcross to the father would yield ordinary pks.


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> ive never worked with pks so i cant really tell you the exact outcome of a pk x vt cross, but i have read that pk is recessive to long fins, whether it is a strong case of incomplete dominance (like with dt and st) and to what extent, i cant say.
> 
> females and males have slightly different body shapes. males are more streamlined, and females more top-heavy. males are more prone to be hunchbacked and shovelnosed, while females are more likely to have pinched caudals.
> both contribute to the gene pool of the offspring though, and you want good form in both of them.
> ...


Epic fail on photos let me try again. 

OH yeh. VT seem to be a very dominant gene. Dominating over all tail types. Darn, well the VT x PK wont work. ; ( 

When you said females are more top body and males are prone to hunchback and etc... Is that a bad thing or good thing? ARe those like diseases/deformations that they get? 

Wow crossing is such a excitement of seeing which one is going to be the one for the persons likings. Though ofcourse this will be done over periods of time. 

Your ideas of the genes seem very interesting. MY pursue is to either end up with spawns of PK betta or HMPK, _A.K.A._ Short Tails. 

MY female photo's anal fin looks exactly like the female on AQuaBid (to my eyes). Except without the sharp point at the end of the fin. 

Back to my photo (about male) Does wild type bettas mean anything? Or does it mean that it is crossed with wild types?


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)




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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)




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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)




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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)




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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

females are top heavy. this means they are thicker in the front than the back, in part due to the fact that the eggs take up room in the front. 
here is a pic of my ct female during spawning








see how she is shaped like raindrop with the thick part forward?
also see how her body right before the caudal is pinched and thinner, that is a minor pinched caudal, which females are more prone to, because they are top heavy. if the caudal is too pinched, its a fault; though i never saw it so bad that it seems to bother the fish.

males are more likely to have hunched backs, and shovel noses. they vary in severity, and are faults, depending on how strong they are. your male has a very minor shovel nose (when the nose curves up, instead of continuing the curve from the body. this does not seem to bother the fish, its just undesirable.
hunchbacks, when minor do not bother the fish, but are undesirable. when major, it can be an issue to its health. 

i cant really comment on your female without a pic.
upload it to an image hosting site like photobucket, and copy and paste the img code into the text bod here.

its just the coloration is that of a wild b. splendens. 
i dont believe it was hybridized with a different species of betta. the most common offspring of hybridization to my knowledge are the dragon-scale bettas. the thick pigmentation on the scales is the result of a bit of DNA from a hybridization with b. mahachai. 
a pk was hybridized with b. mahachai, and then the a male of the offspring was bred to a pk female, to make the result mostly b. splendens. 

here is a good website on betta form, finnage, coloration, genetics, and breeding: http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/home.imp
i think i read every page on there, it was invaluable to me when i first became interested in bettas.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

oh you posted as i was typing.
i see the fish pics.

the female looks like an HMPK to me, or delta/superdelta pk, depending on her caudal spread. 
what did you buy her as?


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

You cant see the photos that I just posted?


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

lol its ok... I do it all the time


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> females are top heavy. this means they are thicker in the front than the back, in part due to the fact that the eggs take up room in the front.
> here is a pic of my ct female during spawning
> 
> 
> ...



Ah. Thanks. and yes I now understand why females do look like raindrops when full of eggs. haha! I knew my male had a different look onec I got him because my other male and other females do not have that kind of lip. There lips are more infront of there eyes and they seem to not have a large hump at all. Though I do like the lookings of the PK male. He is different from the ones I have. So, about the male betta hunch; less hunch more powerful? OR it doesn't matter. and its just something like your said a fault?

Thank you for the website. I will be reading every page as well. lol. New things seem to be sooo interesting. 

AS for my female. I didn't buy her. As I got her from my close relatives. I believe there Betta's that they breed are a variety. They breed HalfMoons, deltas/superdeltas, Crowntails. Last time I visited I did not see any PK. Perhaps the PK Betta's were in their rooms. The females I believe were in their rooms as well.

They house many full grown males together. As one it seems to work for them that some males are scared of others and be housed together. Some males are jarred on the side though. I could ask them what type of Pair they bred the spawn of my female from. I personally like/love someone outside of the breeding to see what they might think the Betta is to get many views of the Betta.


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## SNSDFAN (Jan 13, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> oh you posted as i was typing.
> i see the fish pics.
> 
> the female looks like an HMPK to me, or delta/superdelta pk, depending on her caudal spread.
> what did you buy her as?


IT is soo much difficulty to make her stretch her caudal fin. IT seems like she has no personality. That is her normal spread of her Caudal fin everyday, so I'm guessing it gets wider probably almost 180 Degrees if she do flare. Perhaps when she breeds I can see the true colors and spread of her fins.


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