# DIY Led Lighting Project - Suggestions please



## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

With 60 degree lens and at over 8000K color, 36W of LED is about the same as 96WT5 in PAR


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## Gabriel Basso (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks for your reply WingoAgency,

These XM-L LEDs deliver 5,000-8,300K, while the XP-G has 3,700-5,000K. So should I use only XM-L?


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

XP-G should have "cool white" as well which is from 5000K-8000K. XML seems too powerful and hard to find drivers for.


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## Gabriel Basso (Nov 1, 2011)

I've been talking with Mike from RapidLed (www.rapidled.com).
There I found those LEDs, and now I found this XP-G "Cool White" you mentioned. As a matter of fact it is half the price of the XM-Ls.... which is good.

I found everything at this dealer, even the drivers for both of these LEDs.

When you say that XM-L is too powerful, wouldnt it be good so I could use less units and have the same result? (taking care to avoid dark spots)

Another thing I found there are these dimmer controllers wich I gess can be usefull to control the intensity of light and program daylight/sunset/sunrise times if I wish: http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-159/DDC-dsh-01-PWM-Controller/Detail

Just a newbie question: If I use XM-L LEDs with this controller, when I dimme the intensity down will it affect directly the color temperature emmited by the LED? For instance: at full power the LED will deliver 8300K and as I dimme it down it gets to lower K values? How does it work?

regards

Gabriel


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

If I am not mistaken, they do not sell a dimmable driver that can drive the XM-L to the max unless you use the HLG but then you may be running into non-common implementations where much less members here can help you.

The dimmer you linked can only dim manually, NOT AUTOMATICALLY like the sunrise/sunset you wished. It for presetting an intensity for your tank and on-the-fly showing off your light's dimming ability when you have guests around.

With you dim the white, color temperature shifts, which is kind of unavoidable. Good thing is that it's within acceptable range for out application.





Gabriel Basso said:


> I've been talking with Mike from RapidLed (www.rapidled.com).
> There I found those LEDs, and now I found this XP-G "Cool White" you mentioned. As a matter of fact it is half the price of the XM-Ls.... which is good.
> 
> I found everything at this dealer, even the drivers for both of these LEDs.
> ...


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

LEDgroupbuy sells a dimmable driver that runs them up to 2100mA, and their max is 3,000mA, so that is MORE than sufficient. 


In your case, I would stick with the SAME LED specs if you are mixing colors. You don't need necessarily to use the same exact model/brand, but you do want to stick to LEDs that have similar max drive currents. You can mix Crees and Rebels and Bridgelux and Ebay-cheapo as long as they have similar max currents. 


Running the XML's at 2100mA may mean you can simply use half the number of LED's (and thus may only need 1 driver).

If you use XPG, which are nearly as efficient as the XML and a very fine LED, you'd need roughly twice as many of them. Over your tank that might not be a big deal.


Over your tank I agree with the above--- 36-40 watts of LED power should be sufficient. 


Over your tank I'd suggest you use maybe 8 XML's (max current 3000mA) or 12 XPG's (max current 1500mA). Use nothing more narrow than 60 degree optics--- and plan on hanging it (with the 60's) around 12-18" high to get a good spread.

To drive the XML's, that 2100mA driver from LED group buy would probably work wonderfully. For the XPG, you want something that can run them at 1,000-1500mA. Those numbers might be overkill but that's why we use dimmable drivers


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## Gabriel Basso (Nov 1, 2011)

Wingo, you are right about the driver... the MW driver compatible with XMLs has a max of 1750mA. I'll get the Inventronics 2100mA driver from LED Group Buy. In other hand, that's what Rapid Led answered me about the PWM Controller:

"For the DDC-01, you attach it to a wall timer so it turns on everyday whenever you want (ie. 10am). It will automatically run the last program before it shut off, so if you like D1 then you don't need to press that every day it will start up the same program for you daily as long as you shut the controller off (ie. turn it off via the wall timer when the program is done)."

Despite of these capabilities, I guess this controller won't work with Inventronics driver.

RedFish, thanks for your suggestions. I'll stick with 08 XMLs with 60 degree lenses and the Inventronics driver. Just need to wait a few weeks to "raise funds" for this project.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

If you use all 12 LEDs at about 700 mAmps of current, you should get about 100 micromols of PAR. I suspect you will want less light, so using dimmable drivers is a good idea. To get the color temperature you will want, you might end up with basically only 6 of the LEDs providing any significant PAR, which would leave you with about 50 micromols of PAR. All of this if you don't use any optics at all. If you use 40 degree optics multiply those PAR values by 1.8.


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## Gabriel Basso (Nov 1, 2011)

Hoppy

I was planing on 08 XML Leds at 2100mA (dimmable driver) and 60º lenses. Do you think it will be too much PAR?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

If you use those 8 LEDs at 3.5 inches spacing, one row, 24 inches from the substrate, I think you will get about 250 micromols of PAR at 2100 mAmps. That is definitely way too much light. And, it would be hard to dim them down enough to make it work well. But, if you run less current, say 700 mAmps, you should get around 100 micromols of PAR. Then the dimmer could adjust it down to usable levels.


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## Gabriel Basso (Nov 1, 2011)

Alright... I'm still a little confused, but combining the informations given here, seems to me that a fair choice would be to use 06 CREE XM-L Cool White T6 with 60º lenses, 28 inches from the substrate.

Here is a draft of it:


For what I have understood, even though these LEDs handle up to 3000mA I can run them at lower current levels. Since I need something around 700mA, I still can get a higher output current driver and dim it down right? So, any of these drivers would fit my needs? 

Mean Well ELN-60-48D dimmable driver (max 1300mA)
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-41/Mean-Well-ELN-dsh-60-dsh-48D-dimmable/Detail

Mean Well LPC-60-1750 constant current driver
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-202/Mean-Well-LPC-dsh-60-dsh-1750-constant/Detail

Inventronics 40w driver - 700mA
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/inventronics-40w-driver-700ma/

Inventronics 50w driver - 1750mA
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/inventronics-50w-driver-1750ma/

Sorry if I look a little lost here... that's because I really am! :icon_lol:
I appreciate your help.

Cheers


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## doc bonsai (Nov 4, 2011)

I'm new to much of this and have little to offer, but a couple things occured to me while I read your post.

1. Why not change the spacing of the LEDs so that they are concentrated on the ends of the strip so that the overall homogeneity of the light distribution is high (getting radiation into even dosing for cancer patients is what I do... so I can't help but think of this). That is, you won't have as much of a "hot spot" in the middle if you plan with the spacing. That's what I would do if I were customizing something for myself, anyway.

2. I read this giant article about lighting that was interesting. He emphasizes figuring out where the light peaks are for the emitters you're considering:


> Many do not seem to understand that not all emitters are equal even with the open source Cree-XR-E emitters, commonly sold for other applications; these are only as good as their correct wavelength output (Kelvin Temperature/Nanometers). One cannot compare a first generation CREE XR-E or similar emitter from a few years back to the newest XR-E of today anymore than you can compare first generation iPhone to the latest iPhone (same name, improved technology).
> Based on email I get (some very insulting too), forums I have read, & especially YouTube videos (for DIY LED Aquarium Lights) many persons seem to make this very incorrect assumption. This has resulted in a plethora of non reef capable LED lights flooding the market, some claiming to use CRee daylight emitters while in reality these are not even close to the same currently patented emitters used by high end LED lights!
> I do not know whether to laugh or cry when I read or watch YouTube videos where someone brags how cheaply that they put together a DIY LED Fixture, when in reality this is the same as bragging about making your own PC Computer using a circa 2000 Intel processor and attempting to compare it to a computer using the latest Intel processor!


Take that for what it's worth. I thought it was interesting.


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## Gabriel Basso (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi doc

I got curious with what you said about Led positioning and made a sketch with different LED positions so we can see and compare how the light would affect the tank:

Upper view









Front view









As you can see, turns out that even with the leds grouped on the sides the hot spot remains in the center of the tank. Even worse, I'd lose some light on the corners. So I guess it's not a good deal in this case. What do you think?

Great article you sent me, very usefull information there! Thanks a lot. I'm planning on using legitime Cree LEDs, which many planted tanks keepers had already tested and approved. At this site they say that their LEDs were built especifically for tank use, but sincerelly, although I'm sure their LEDs must be great, I guess there is a sales talk speaking louder over there.

cheers


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Dont forget that light reflects off the glass at the ends and front/back of the tank, to increase the PAR in those areas. You don't need to aim for uniform light all the way to the ends of the tank. Also, the area of maximum intensity will be about a 30 degree cone when you use a 60 degree optic. I think it helps to do those diagrams with only half angle cones, understanding that there will still be some light outside of the cones. 

When you raise the light high above the tank, it is better to have the light be shorter than the tank, so not so much spills over the ends of the tank. But, in the end, this has to be largely a bit of good guesswork to arrive at the optimum design.


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## doc bonsai (Nov 4, 2011)

Yeah, looks like changing the placement won't really have much effect I guess. I'm going to have two "spot" fixtures, each on one end and angled toward the center, it will probably be overkill on the light but I guess that fits with my newbie enthusiasm!


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## Gabriel Basso (Nov 1, 2011)

Easy on that lights Doc!:icon_smil It is so much easier (and joyfull) to manage a low / med light tank than a high intensity one. That's why I'm plannig on using dimmable drivers, so I can dim it down if I start having too much algae to deal with!


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## doc bonsai (Nov 4, 2011)

The trouble is that I like the plant species that need a lot of light. So, I'm giving it a try, even if it's a little overly ambitious for a beginner. I finally finished up my light fixture yesterday. It lights up the center of the tank brightly but no the edges aren't lit as well, so I'm trying to decide what to do about that. I could get the two fixtures, as I initially planned, or just see what happens this way. Maybe having uneven lighting will show me where in the light gradient plants seem to be the most happy?


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## Naekuh (Oct 19, 2011)

doc bonsai said:


> The trouble is that I like the plant species that need a lot of light. So, I'm giving it a try, even if it's a little overly ambitious for a beginner.


no ... trust me listen to the guys here..

i thought that too... coming from a reef setup, i always learned more light = better... if something gets photo bleached move it down. 

But this doesnt apply in plants... u add more light.. your asking for a algae bloom on biblical sizes.... the guru's here have told me.. i have too much light.. i ignored them, because i love overkill.. look at my avatar.. that was my original led setup plan til i downgraded cuz i couldn't fight the algae infestation off... 

Well... like the rest of my eq which is overkill, i got an overkill algae infestation which is very hard to get rid of.... :confused1:
and i dont think you want to be here like i am.... it seriously is nasty.. and smelly...


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## doc bonsai (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks for the tip. Ive been reading a lot so that I can have a high light tank the right way. I don't think I have too much light but the proof will be in how things go.


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## generalpetres (Sep 28, 2011)

great info so far, im sort of in the same boat as you are just a little bit larger, 60g (53 actual) im still deciding if i want to go t5ho route or go led. my main question for you is do you think the shimmer effect the leds give of will help or detract from the aquarium? this is really the only thing holding me back from biting the bullet and doing a full led build.


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## Gabriel Basso (Nov 1, 2011)

Actually as far as I know the shimmer effect does not have any different influence to the aquarium than T5HO light, I guess it is something related to the frequency the light is emmited by LEDs... so it's just a aesthetic matter, it's up to you to like it or not.


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## generalpetres (Sep 28, 2011)

by shimmering it would give you the affect of natural light like metal halide would give. as far as t5ho you wont get this affect or from any florescent for that matter. well what ever you choose hope it works out for you.


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## Naekuh (Oct 19, 2011)

generalpetres said:


> by shimmering it would give you the affect of natural light like metal halide would give. as far as t5ho you wont get this affect or from any florescent for that matter. well what ever you choose hope it works out for you.


shimmering has more to do with water movement and how the light is refracting off the surface.


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## pwolfe (Mar 2, 2011)

Any updates to this? Did you ever build the fixture?


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## Profector (Oct 7, 2010)

ditto


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## tentacles (Nov 28, 2011)

The meanwell driver rapidled sells can do 2.3A current. 27v max voltage, certainly enough for 6 XMLs.. The meanwell drivers have a max current setting independant of the dimming function.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

***


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

Naekuh said:


> shimmering has more to do with water movement and how the light is refracting off the surface.


Actually it has more to do with having multiple light sources. Obviously you cant get shimmer with no surface refraction and defraction, but you can have tons of surface movement with a broad area light source like flourescent and have no refraction because the light source is lighting all areas equally. Metal halide and LEDs have that nice shimmer effect because they're focused light sources and allow for areas of more and less intensity, making different levels of light penetrate the moving surface at different angles.


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