# Simple ODNO Question



## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I finally did it, got off my lazy rear and got some stuff for new lighting. I picked up a 4-f32t8 which I plan on running two 36" t8 bulbs on. Now I have two questions..

1. This will work right? No issues running 2 36" bulbs with that setup right?

2. In the wiring diagram that sam has he hooks it up in a series, could I just hook up both blue wires to one end of the 1st and a yellow to the other and then both reds to the end of the 2nd bulb and the other yellow to the other end of the seond bulb? That seems to make sense to me, I figured I would ask you guys about it. 

Thanks..


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

That should work fine... The endcaps I am using have four little holes for the wires, and the suggestion was to bridge them so both pins are connected to the same cable. Not sure if it makes a difference, but if they don't seem to reach full brightness it might be worth a shot.


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## rdn2 (Jul 10, 2003)

That should work fine. There shouldn't be any issues with 2x ODNO on a 36" tube. I know that on a 48" tube at 2x you get about 50 watts per tube. I'm not sure what you'll end up with 2x on 36' bulbs though. Let us know how it works out for you.

Ron


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Thanks folks. I'll be wiring it up in about 1 hour or so. I post some before/after pics if anyone is interested. Hmm.. 50 watts each eh? Man.. maybe I am getting in over my head.


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## rdn2 (Jul 10, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> Hmm.. 50 watts each eh? Man.. maybe I am getting in over my head.


It should be less for 36" tubes... I'm just not sure how much less...

Ron


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Ron, are you sure the 48" only draws 50W? They are normally 40W, I thought overdriving them x2 would make them draw 70 to 80W, with an approximate 1.5x light increase? Or do I mix that up with T8's?


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Well gents, I just finished. And of course, I forgot to take a before pic. I think it is brighter. The thing is before I had a 6500k and a 'plant-gro' type bulb so the colour of the tank was a mix of the two. Now I have two 6500k bulbs and it is more blue than is was before (I like the colour more now), so it is a little harder to tell just how much brighter it got. Anyways.. I am pretty sure it is brighter.. but for some reason in my head I was thinking it was going to be like this beacon of light beaming into the room. Ahwell.. we will see how it goes. Thanks for the help.


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## rdn2 (Jul 10, 2003)

Wasserpest said:


> Ron, are you sure the 48" only draws 50W? They are normally 40W, I thought overdriving them x2 would make them draw 70 to 80W, with an approximate 1.5x light increase? Or do I mix that up with T8's?


That is the approximate number I remember... I will go back and find the info. It is probably slightly more for a t12 and slightly less for a t8. Also remember that many ballasts underdrive their bulbs for energy conservation purposes...

Ron


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## Anonymous (Mar 2, 2003)

2XODNO will overdrive T-12s to around 49w, not sure about T-8s. Also, since electronic ballasts are load sensing, they will adjust the output for the 36w tube accordingly. It will still be overdriven, but not to the same capacity as 40w tubes.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> I am pretty sure it is brighter.. but for some reason in my head I was thinking it was going to be like this beacon of light beaming into the room.


I remember someone saying that a 32W bulb was much much brighter than a 40W bulb when overdriven by that same ballast. It's a little harder to find T8 in good colors, but you might want to try that...


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Wasserpest said:


> Vinlo said:
> 
> 
> > I am pretty sure it is brighter.. but for some reason in my head I was thinking it was going to be like this beacon of light beaming into the room.
> ...


I don't know about that. It might *appear* brighter, though, since the light is coming from a narrower source and is therefore more concentrated. Overall output should be greater with the ODNO 40w tubes, but with the way these electronic ballasts respond to loading, you never know. I wish someone with a good lux meter could scientifically measure all of these combinations for us.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Found that post. Read Marios response (3rd post). Might be worth a try. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2058


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Sam, are you saying that it may not be overdriving my bulbs due to the loading response from the ballast? Or am I completely way off base here? The more I look at it, it seems that there is more light in the corners of the tank (usually pretty dim). I can't really tell for certain though. I am gonna buy a reflector as well.. I called a lighting supply store and they have some for $15 for aluminum ones that are 4' long (I assume they are polished not satin).


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

No, I believe you are definitely overdriving those bulbs. If you wired it up with only one output per bulb, the ballast would load sense the 36" bulb and provide only the nominal 30 watts (minus a bit when considering the ballast factor). Running two outputs (2x ODNO) generally provides about 1.5x output, so you should be seeing 40-45 watts out of those bulbs. But none of this is documented and measured and generally based on approximations.
If the plants respond well, though, then I suppose that's the real answer.


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## Anonymous (Mar 2, 2003)

For instance, if you use OHM's LAW and take Volts (120) times AMPS (.97) divided by amount of lights (normally 4), you get 29.1w per light. If you do the same thing, but change the amount of lights to 2, you get 58.7w per light. Once you average in several other factors, someone determined around 1.5x the normal output of the light is used--around 43.7w per light, instead of 32w. For 40w bulbs its around 49w per bulb.

Now assuming this (I think Gulf will agree), if 40w puts out 49 at 2XODNO, and 32 puts out 43.7w, then 36w should put out somewhere in the middle of the two. The biggest gain coming from overdriving T-8 bulbs and a lesser gain from T-12 bulbs. However, if you are using T-8 36w bulbs, but I dont think you are and that you are using the fatter and shorter T-12 bulbs, then it would overdrive the bulbs to 1.5 times the 36w to 54w.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Well put. I believe I agree.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Actually, I am using a 36 INCH T8, they are 30w. It all makes sense to me now, it kinda did before as well. I was just a little lost on the load sensing by the ballast. I imagine it will be somewhere like 45watts after ODing them. Like Sam said, I'll wait a few weeks, see what happens, see if my plants enjoy it (if not it wasn't that expensive anyhow). Hopefully my rotala will turn red and my glosso and riccia will actually grow. I ordered that reflector too, that should help get a little more light into the tank (yes, that's right I am addicted). Thanks for all the help everyone.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I have another question about my new lighting. Everything seems to be going well (everything gets as hot as my old 36" bulbs (2 run by old magnetic (I mean old) ballasts)). Anyways.. here is the question. 

Will there be an acclimation time for the plants to get accustomed to the new lighting? Like when you add a new plant into the tank it takes a bit of time to start growing.. will this be the same for the existing plants with the new light? The reason I ask, is because I am starting to see a bit of algae (I mean a pretty small amount.. covered one leaf of my crypt, and two of one of my swords). I was just wondering if I should start worrying about an imbalance or if this could be a biproduct of the new conditions. I do realize that the uptake of the nutrients should be more with the new lights, so I am trying to compensate for that a bit. Any help is great.. thanks.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

If conditions are right (N-P-K is balanced, CO2 present and trace elements all accounted for) then established plants should be able to respond to increased lighting immediately. The fact that they're not might point to one or more of those nutrients limiting growth. An increase in algae growth validates the increase in lighting intensity.

Time to pull out the test kits and start looking for what is missing!


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Damn, I did that too. Everything was the same as before. I'll keep monkeying with stuff. See what results. I think I may need a new NO3 test kit.. doesn't seem to register much in my tank, even after I dose 5ppm (1/4 tsp). Hmm. I can't see my plants taking up that much no3.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Definitely get a new NO3 kit. Nitrate and Phosphate test kits don't have a very lengthy shelf life. I was screwing my readings up for a long time with an old kit. I got a new kit and everything made a lot more sense.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> I think I may need a new NO3 test kit.. doesn't seem to register much in my tank, even after I dose 5ppm (1/4 tsp).


I was in the same situation with my old NO3 test kit, until I got the Red Sea kit which is much better in the low range and easier to read (for me).


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Yeah I wanted to get one of those red sea ones but no one in my area carries them. Maybe I'll just order one from Big Al's.. if they carry Red Sea.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I got mine from Big Als... just make sure you combine it with other stuff, or the shipping will make it expensive.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Well.. I decide to check my test kit one last time before I went and bought a new one. I mixed 1/8tsp of KNO3 with 500ml of water. No reading. I would say that it is shot for sure. Why would it go bad so quickly? THe shelf life on the package say 2006? What gives. No more Hagen test kits for this cat.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Maybe your KNO3 expired :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Yeah maybe. Uhh.. that's not possible right?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

:lol: <-- means I was just kidding :wink: 
It doesn't expire... but... The first time I got KNO3 I never got any readings just like you, until I went out and bought a bottle of stump remover, then all of a sudden I got readings... I still don't know what that first batch really was... maybe I should sniff it :hehe:


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Well, I just got an AP NO3 test kit (4 stores later.. I forgot that place existed). The new reading is somewhere around 15ppm. My PO4 is still low. Now my question is this. DO I just let the NO3 go down and raise my PO4 levels? or Do I do some water changes and reset my levels and start fresh? Now that this isn't really about lighting should we move it over to another board?


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Best bet is to reset with a water change and get on a good dosing plan. Its just easier that way Vinlo.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

That's what I was I figured. I know how I am spending a portion of my sunday. Also thinking about rescaping a bit. Maybe I'll wait a bit though.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Along the same lines as this thread:

I looked at the ODNO set up on the DIY articles and I was wondering what the difference is between hooking up two leads from a 40 watt ballast to a 40 watt bulb and hooking up one lead from a 40 watt ballast to a 20 watt bulb. Do you need to use two leads to increase the power to the bulb?


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Oh my life! I did a water and added the proper (man I was way off) amount of KCl to get 20ppm and took off for breakfast. I came back and man alive.. talk about pearling. I don't know if it is from the water or the upped amount of KCl but everything in my tank has bubbles on it, it's crazy (never did that from a water change before). So I retested my NO3 and it is back down around 10ppm, I added .3ppm of PO4 (I am going to retest in an hour or so to make sure). I like the way this is heading! Thanks everyone!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

SCMurphy said:


> I looked at the ODNO set up on the DIY articles and I was wondering what the difference is between hooking up two leads from a 40 watt ballast to a 40 watt bulb and hooking up one lead from a 40 watt ballast to a 20 watt bulb. Do you need to use two leads to increase the power to the bulb?


Since electronic ballasts are load sensing, you need to hook up two leads to one bulb to OD it. With one lead, even with a smaller bulb, you would get only NO.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Again, not on lighting but I figured I would post to same thread. My numbers seem to be jiving a bit better now. Tank still pearling good. My question is this.. if my numbers are good will they now drop equally as the plants use up the nutrients or could the PO4 drop quicker than the NO3? or vice versa? Just curious really.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Depends on the plants...
You could indeed see one drop faster then the other... however dont kill yourself and your test kits trying to find what is needed and when... relax and test it in a few days, then write down the results. After a few weeks of this you will know the answers to all questions and still have some of your test kits left ! 

:hehe:


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Bucks right. Just pay attention to the plants and how they respond to what you dose. I can go months without testing this way.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I hate to be a pain here but..

I am going to rewire my lights because I made a new reflector/hood deal (watch for it in the DIY section). Anyways. I bought new ends for the lamps and there weems to be four spots to plug wires into. I was wondering is it set up like this to allow for series wiring and such, or do I have to hook up the wire to one side and run a 'jumper' over to the other side of the same lamp holder. I hope that makes some sense.. any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I am not an electrician... so don't trust me. In the endcaps, the two right and the two left "spots" are connected, and I read that for electronic ballasts you should bridge the left and right pair. I tried it both ways and didn't see a difference, so there is only one wire going to one side of the bulb in my case, without a jumper. So I think it is optional... and handy for overdriving purposes, when you need to plug in several wires.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Thanks. I got it up and running.. again. I am pleased with the results from the aluminum reflector. All materials etc cost around $100, not too bad I think.


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