# Capping dirted tank with Safe-T-Sorb?



## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Cap with a finer product such as PFS or BDBS.


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

Thanks for the reply. I actually just got done reading your "charging STS" thread lol. Do you think BDBS is safe for corys/loaches?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Many use BDBS with cory's, even myself.
BDBS is easier to keep clean than PFS.


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## Sarlindescent (May 14, 2015)

I wouldn't recommend capping with safe t sorb (STS) since it's very light. However, I am trying a dirt experiment atm with dirt mixed 60/40 with STS. This is then capped with eco complete in an edge 6. In my 180, I will cap it with BDBS. My theory is the STS will provide some CEC which will reduce the "hotness" of dirt in the initial months to absorb nutrient spikes. It should also be able to absorb liquid ferts or leaching root tabs later.


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## Betta Midler (Jan 20, 2017)

I've successfully used "builder's sand" from Lowe's as a cap. I've even sifted it to use the finer stuff as a cap, and then the used the slightly larger stuff I sifted out to help hold down plant roots. I think it's called "Sakrete 60-lb All-Purpose Sand" and it's $4.80 for a 60 pound bag.

I don't know how it would do for your cories or loaches.


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

Interesting idea about mixing the STS c the dirt, I think ill try that out as well. I saw the Sakrete sand today, I liked the natural brown color of it. If i end up going BDBS, should i go 20/40 or 30/60? Also, was looking for the organic miracle grow, and the only one they had was a "Natures choice" or something organic soil by miracle grow, although it said it had "moisture lock" or something in it, which made me hesitant to try...any experience with that?


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

The concern about substrate weight has already been addressed, so I'll just add a note about grain size.

I prefer to use sand because in my experience it is the safer option for preventing cap breach. Even in very old tanks, I do not experience any dirt migration or leaks unless I've been really aggressively moving things around without taking the proper precautions. It's also easier to plant in, and I personally prefer the way it looks.

That said, some dirted tank owners (including Diana Walstad herself) prefer gravel, because it allows fish mulm to slowly migrate down to the dirt layer and compost into fresh substrate. This is for stone-cold serious Walstad tank people. I personally don't have the rocks for it.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

A word of caution with topsoil and potting mixes.
Sift all wood chips unless you enjoy tannin stained water.
Soak all soil in a bucket in small portions to remove any floating matter.
You will have cap breaches @ some time in your future.
This allows for a quick vac of the sand surface and no cloudy water for a week.
I'm just say'in!


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## snarkinturtle (Mar 4, 2017)

I have an STS capped low tech dirted tank running for about 8 months now. It's my first planted tank so I can't speak to other substrates. I've found it works pretty well, the STS being light seems to kinda float over the dirt. I've only really had one messy incident when I removed a _Crypt. wendtii_ with big long roots. I did find that I had to start water column ferts sooner than I expected which I suspect might be because of the high CEC of STS. My tank:


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

Thanks for all this advice everyone! really glad i joined this forum. I think im gonna mix some STS with my dirt after i sift/soak it, and then top that with a small layer of STS, followed by about 2' of the Sakrete multi-purpose sand. The color matches the STS that i have, kind of a dark brown. What do yall think of that idea? Think that sand is ok?


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm still not very clear on the benefits of mixing STS with the dirt; seems like you'd just be diluting the dirt. Using the STS as part of your cap (in addition to sand), however, seems like a fine idea. 

Can't give much input on the safety of that sand product, but make sure you give it an extra good rinsing. "Multi-purpose" = "very dusty".


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

Snarkinturtle, that's a beautiful tank! What foreground plant is that? I think im going mostly crypts, maybe crypt parva for the foreground, but yours looks great


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## snarkinturtle (Mar 4, 2017)

Thanks topgun! The foreground is dwarf sag (_Sagittaria subulata_) all from one pot of Tropica tissue culture. I'm very pleased with it even though some of it has gotten tall lately.


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

Would you recommend dwarf sagg over crypt parva for a foreground carpeting plant in a low tech?


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

topgun said:


> Would you recommend dwarf sagg over crypt parva for a foreground carpeting plant in a low tech?



Crypt parva takes foreeever to carpet. In a low tech tank, you could be waiting years for anything close to "full" carpet. Dwarf sagg grows much faster; it is taller, so not a great choice for foreground of smaller tanks, but that's not an issue for your 72 gallon


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

So, actually found some PFS that wasnt optic white (its sort of tan) so that's what I went with. Got 100lbs, hopefully thats enough. Gonna do a 2" cap over the 1" dirt and 1" STS. Ill keep yall posted. How many plants do I need to have initially to help avouid ammonia spike/algae issues?


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Hey, nice find!

Hard to say "how many" plants you need. You should strive to really fill it up. If you won't have all of the plants you want for your scape when starting out initially, you can use some floating plants as a temporary measure. Large bunches of cheap, nitrate-hungry stems like hornwort will also make good temporary nutrient-consumers until you get your vision together. Just remember to cut away their roots when you remove them later on (unless you want to keep them!).


Your substrate plan seems to add up to 4". That's no good. 1" of dirt is good, but your cap should not be thicker than 1.5", maybe 2" in some places for landscaping purposes.


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

is that to cut down on anaerobic pockets? I could mix the STS with the soil if capping it will add too much height


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Not much fear of anaerobic pocket's or sulfide boogey man with lot's of stem plant's.
Plant's can transport oxygen to areas around the root's thus discouraging anaerobic bacteria that only appear in low oxygen area's.
Hydrogen sulfide gas also quickly becomes harmless sulfate in presence of oxygen in the water, so any gases that might escape from deeper substrates is rendered harmless in most properly maintained planted tanks.
A bit different in fish only tanks with no plant's and fish waste /fish food's collecting in/on substrate/filter.
The thinner cap in my opinion,, allows plant root's to more quickly find the nutrient rich dirt and thus a bit quicker to adapt/thrive by taking advantage of the nutrient laced susbtrate possibly beneath the cap.
Too deep a cap and plant's can flounder before they have access to the nutrient's.
Is of lesser concern if one is also dosing the water column with fertz but fertz available from both loaction's is win/win for the plant's.
Can easily wait a few week's with dirted tanks before possibly needing or wanting to fertilze the water but mileage may vary depending on nutrient content of the substrate.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

roadmaster said:


> Not much fear of anaerobic pocket's or sulfide boogey man with lot's of stem plant's.
> Plant's can transport oxygen to areas around the root's thus discouraging anaerobic bacteria that only appear in low oxygen area's.
> Hydrogen sulfide gas also quickly becomes harmless sulfate in presence of oxygen in the water, so any gases that might escape from deeper substrates is rendered harmless in most properly maintained planted tanks.
> A bit different in fish only tanks with no plant's and fish waste /fish food's collecting in/on substrate/filter.
> ...


100% agree. I haven't had any anaerobic problems with dirted tanks, but plants do seem to struggle to establish themselves in deep, compacted substrate.

Ferts from the substrate are a nice luxury: not available to algae, and the decomposition of organic matter creates CO2 that many aquatic plants can consume with their roots. Still, everything in moderation!


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

Thanks for all the input! I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place for me to ask, but what plant recommendations would you have for this rescape? I want to really be crypt-dominant i think. I have a lutea right now in my current tank and its the prettiest plant by far. here's a brief idea outline, what do yall think? should i change anything/add more plants? I have tons of java ferns im throwing in too, and 2 large anubias


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Java ferns and anubia are fine, but they would receive little benefit from substrate nutrient's(these plant's normally attached to wood/rocks) and will benefit from water column dosing.
Would also want some fast growing stem plant's like water sprite,hygrophila's,vallisneria,ludwigia to name but a few.
The fast grower's will help with establishing a demand for nutrient's from the substrate and make it more difficult for algae to find friendly enviornment ,
Can always remove the fast grower's later on if you like and swap them for something else but early on ,,it is beneficial to have as many fast growing species as you can in addition to those plant's like anubia and java fern and many of the crypt's that grow more slowly.


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

How many of each of those species would you recommend? Im gonna get some crypts too, probably 5 lutea and a few wendtii. I heard Val melts with excel dosing so maybe ill stay away from that one


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

I don't think excel is necessary in a dirted tank. Then again, I should disclose that I have an unsubstantiated concern about metricide use, mostly related to toxicity. 

As for quantity, keep stuffing plants in until most of the back half of your tank is completely covered in foliage. Tallest plants go in back, shrubbier things (like your crypts) go in the midground (except maybe the lutea? Depends how tall your tank is). This is getting into a very subjective area of aquarium keeping. You will have to figure out what works for you. It can help to look at pictures of other planted tanks.

72 gallons is quite a big tank to start out with.


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## topgun (Dec 7, 2017)

Yeah, a nano tank would have been better for me right now, but this is what I have. Didnt realize how much cost there would be with plants. Its exciting and fun though! My next tank will probably be a 10-15 gallon lol


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