# Toxic Ten ~ The End



## iskandarreza (Jul 4, 2011)

Well... your username is apt I suppose. But why did you have to use dog poop?


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

I don't even want to think how that smelled. I will be following along though. I want to see what happens. Are you going to be testing on a regular basis? I am curious what the Nitrates, Nitrites, and Ammonia do.

Subscribed.roud:


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

:bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

:bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## allaboutfish (Oct 14, 2011)

subscribed


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

DogFish said:


> It actually wasn't that bad but, I do clean up after to dogs everyday. I would have proffered to let it cook for 3wks but, I have to clear out some tank space for new plants that are on the way.
> 
> Nope, no testing. The pics will tell the story be it Most Triumphant success or Epic Fail, stay tuned to this channel.


I hate cleaning up after 4 legged animals. Got two cats, and the smell they make is unreal.

Don't worry, I am not changing the channel.


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## TactusMortus (Jun 28, 2011)

I am not buying any plants you sell, hah!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxx


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

:bounce::bounce:


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## TactusMortus (Jun 28, 2011)

I thought they looked familiar. Hope they take off for you as they normally do. They grow as fast as the other wendetii's


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

DogFish said:


> Yes, it smelled like a Rottweiler farted expresso. It's in the unfinished basement, 4-20Ls in background for grow-out


OH, :hihi: you just made day shine and I had such a horrible day that I thought I was going to get fired.

Bet the wife or girlfriend won't let you bring that in the house.



DogFish said:


> Because I don't own a horse.


:hihi::hihi:Now I am laughing so hard struggling to type. What does a horse have to do with an aquarium


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

:bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

H:bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

That is a LOT of dog crap for a small tank. IN reference, the amount of manure spread in fields is like 1/10th of that. 

I think you're going to need to wait longer than 2 weeks to introduce fauna.


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

I thought that dog poop shouldn't be composted? Well, that's what my green bin says.
Even after 8 days, the dog poop in my lawn doesn't look anywhere near decomposed.

Any water quality issues?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

You are just nuts, but thank you, I'm laughing so hard. I'm definitely subscribed and am so curious to see what happens but I think it will be no different that MG with cow manure, and can't even think of the smell while you were making the substrate, but more power to you if it works.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

l.

:biggrin:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

interesting.... subscribed.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

I could have probably gotten you horse poop if you really needed it lol. 

On a tank note very interesting build.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

OMFG that is gross. Did you really have to do all that. WOW


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

DogFish said:


> The amount of manure on a field in part is based on economics of supply & labor and not necessarily volume. Also, this poop is mixed in with with the other substrate components vs just being spread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol. Trash can at Starbucks.:hihi:


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Subscribed. How could I not be? ; )
Just thinking about your neighbors watching you take pics of dog droppings makes this worthwhile...


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

driftwoodhunter said:


> Just thinking about your neighbors watching you take pics of dog droppings makes this worthwhile...


lol


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## looking4roselines (Mar 28, 2008)

Interesting substrate. I take it that this is the same tank the c ferruginea is grown in?

Have you noticed any gas forming in the substrate?


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## Hcancino (Jun 18, 2011)

I was under the impression that only herbivores poop was good as fertilizers because they only eat plant matter. Definitely subscribing to this one


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Wowwww...that's very interesting substrate, but I guess it's the same concept with my organic soil substrate tank. Lot of nutrients in there for sure.


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## limz_777 (Jun 29, 2005)

haha dog poop :icon_mrgr


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

I don't know what to say.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

:bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

:bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

All I can say is, if your ever in Chicago and you stop by to visit Dogfish and he offers you a cup of coffee, just politely say "No Thank You" especially if it is French press!


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Lol!!!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxxx


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## Byakuya (Oct 26, 2011)

we need to see some pictures


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxx


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxx


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

DogFish said:


> The amount of manure on a field in part is based on economics of supply & labor and not necessarily volume. Also, this poop is mixed in with with the other substrate components vs just being spread.


Having spread my fair share of manure onto more than my fair share of fields, I assure you that supply and labor are not a problem. Feedlots around the US are dying to find ways to get rid of their manure. The labor involves driving in circles and is part of the life of farming.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Dude, that is awesome, lol. I literally did laugh out loud! Just goes to show, people keep over thinking nature, plants will find a way to grow in almost anything anywhere.


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## Lutra (Sep 30, 2011)

Subscribed.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxx


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

HA HA HA HA HA... HA HA... HA... ha... a ha.... dog poop.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

mmm


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

Do you have an updated photo?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

zzz


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

nnn


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## plecostomouse (Jun 9, 2011)

Coffee Grounds - Contain about 4% nitrogen, 1% phosphorus, and 3% potassium. You can also dilute your coffee grounds with water. This makes an excellent liquid fertilizer that's completely organic.

could you tell me more about using coffee grounds as liquid fertilizer?
maybe a link?

thanks and good luck


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Glad your tank is working out well for the inverts so far. Gonna be funny if the MTS burrows when you're nearby, gas bubble pops at top of water, dog crap smell escapes.

When do you think you'll have to add more nutrients into the soil? Will you just wait for plant growth to begin to slow or would you have an estimate time period.


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2008)

OverStocked said:


> Having spread my fair share of manure onto more than my fair share of fields, I assure you that supply and labor are not a problem. Feedlots around the US are dying to find ways to get rid of their manure. The labor involves driving in circles and is part of the life of farming.


The problem with feedlot manure is it's more like septage than manure.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

888


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

ppp


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## plecostomouse (Jun 9, 2011)

DogFish said:


> The basic idea is to delete them in water 1/2pound to 5gl. then water plants with that. The idea is diluting and caffeine & acid left from brewing. I agree with the rinse but I don't belief it's needed with all plants.
> 
> Our family has been dumping coffee grounds around rose bushes for three generations.
> 
> If you might like my other journal, "Coffee Bowl":icon_smil


oh my mistake i thought you meant fertiliser for an aquarium.
my mum puts coffee around garden plants too


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## Erik N (Oct 27, 2011)

DogFish said:


> *DAY 21*
> Noticed a few gas bubbles /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxx


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h238manure-dog-cat.html



> Can pet manure be sterilized chemically to make it safe?
> There are chemical sterilants such as methyl bromide and others that could be used, but the cost and bother is probably not worth the value of the manure. Also, the average homeowner probably is not equipped to handle chemical sterilants. CONCLUSIONS
> The health hazards associated with cat and dog manure are greater than the potential benefit from its fertilizer value. Cat and dog manure should be disposed of by flushing down the toilet, burying deep in the soil (six inches or more) or by placement in tight plastic bags for garbage collection.


Be careful with this. It isn't a joke and the appropriate measures should be taken. 

Since you're putting this in the substrate then putting your arms in the water(presumably) afterwards, it is a good way to introduce contaminants back to you and your family. I spoke to Emmett Schulte and UW and he confirmed this with me. The dog feces in water will still be dangerous and requires 5 or more days composting over 165 degrees to render it "safe".


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## matty26 (Feb 25, 2011)

I was going to ask if you did a barf diet! Then I finished your post ha ha. My grandpas son had that with his dog ( no not uncle, divorces blah blah...) He had a really expensive dog and when he bought it, that was in the contract for it, that he had to feed her a barf diet.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

:icon_wink


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Be very careful with this tank. It can go anaerobic pretty easily.

Also never touch the substrate or move plants around. NH3 release from the substrate will be bad.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[pp


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[oo


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Congrats for the shrimp babies. Pretty rare the eggs will stay alive attached to anything. They'll normally be a quick snack for other shrimp !

And aw, you're adding ferts now. I was expecting you to like go into the backyard and throw in some dried dog poop . Repeat as needed.

Just to be safe, maybe wear some gloves when you're servicing this tank?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxx


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

ooo


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

While I use a bag and don't handle it bare handed cleaning up after my pooch at the park I still wonder if pets that are properly cared for are a parasite threat? Is a transmission in the excrement really a huge concern? If we see anything other than chew toy (rawhide) in our pup's waste he is going to the vet. Yard bugs do migrate into the piles and dung beetles here have wrecked the yard LOL.

Kinda wish you would have stayed poo only on the supplements relying on the substrate but this is a great thread to follow.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

wkndracer said:


> Kinda wish you would have stayed poo only


i just had to laugh at this... but i agree it is a great thread to follow.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxx


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

I admit I'm following this because it seems so weird and extreme. I also never heard of the B.A.R.F. diet before this thread. Lo and behold, I had to take one of my cats in for an emergency visit the other night, and I got to talking about food with the vet. Turns out she feeds one of her cats an all raw diet for allergies, and gave me the contact info of the butcher she uses. We talked for over an hour, and I am sold on the benefits of the raw diet. I can easily see now how much "poo" quality can vary according to diet. Now I'm hooked here for more reasons - it doesn't seem so strange now! : )
I hope my mind never closes to new ideas!!!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Cio


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

That's true - the emergency vet reminded me of the same thing - she said back in the day, prior to the processed packaged foods (which are surprisingly recent - at least it surprised me to find out how recent) our pets fed on a diet much closer to a natural hunting diet.
I'm really looking forward to feeding my pets better...


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

I should also add it's made me think twice about what I feed _myself_ - all these processed foods...
Enough derailing! Sorry!


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## pagemee (Nov 29, 2011)

I clicked on this and was like....wow that's dog poop in a shovel. Oh, what is he doing with that dog poop. Then I knew. For the record the, most dog food will not make good poop. High protein diets are not good for fertilizer/all the chemicals in dog food. You should have grabbed some horse manure from a grass feed horse! THE BEST. I work at a horse veterinarian...we give away the feces to farmers.....have worked with small animal vets, know how terrible dog poop is for anything really. Help me with my tank's fertilization needs please. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/158004-petite-planted-pretty.html


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

uuu


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

DogFish said:


> About Dog Poop:
> 
> "On average, wet dog manure contains 0.7% nitrogen (N),
> 0.25% phosphate (P20 S) and 0.02% potash (K20). Compared to wet cattle manure, dog waste contains 40% more nitrogen, the same amount of phosphate, and 1/20 the amount of potash (Hall & Schulte 1979). "
> ...



What about tea leave? Any info.? I frequent put them on my super barren yard soil.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

koo


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[iiii


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Wow so in 11 days the lilies went from being underwater and reached the surface? Maybe you could build something to keep them against one side of the tank?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Ti0i


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

:^) Oh lawdy! 

Lily is looking great! Glad its growing so well :^)

Maybe you can build a tub for it in next spring outside!

-Gordon


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

hoih


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Your dogs are on the BARF diet? Cool beans, my dogs are on it too. 

This tank is hilarious. I love it! Go organic roud:


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Updates please 

Over the course of this tank's life, how is the smell? Any odors coming from it?
Is there a difference in amount of surface film build up compared to your other tanks?



Daximus said:


> plants will find a way to grow in almost anything anywhere.


Yep. The apartment I've moved in has a rag-outside on the balcony-with small plants growing on it.



DogFish said:


> >Coffee grounds smell 10x worse that Rottweiler Poop.


Oh, also an update to your coffee ground nano.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

h;oih'oi


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

So this tank is the one with all the scuds in it?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Yhoih


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

hu;iuhk


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[FOgihu


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It looks pretty clean and all the plants look healthy, so it must be working out Ok.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Consi


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yeah but that kinda stuff is normal for a dirt tank right, if you move stuff around you are going to have dust volcanoes, and the shrimp are not only surviving but multiplying. I tell ya if I was swimming around in poo water sex would be the last thing on my mind.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[Qg;iuh


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[fon


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

LOL. It just says something about ramshorns that they were able to survive...


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Yep


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Looks good


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

Doesnt look like the same tank at all. things are looking good

Sent from my Galaxy Note using Tapatalk


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[fo


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quo


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[img


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## LucyLoofa (Jan 24, 2011)

Do you think this would have even stood a chance of working if you hadn't used water from your old tanks? You know, with all of their beneficial bacteria etc?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Dogfish I'm glad to see this tank is still up and running and that's a nice looking Ram, but....we gotta start a "buy Dogfish a Camera" charity drive unless you are pixelating those to be different.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quo


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quote=150


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## LucyLoofa (Jan 24, 2011)

DogFish said:


> All tanks triumph or fail based on how we achieve balance. The point of this exercise was a to show that.


I'm confused on your answer. Maybe it is because I am young?
Are you saying you created balance with the water from the previous tanks and without it it would have failed? 
I'm confused upong what aspects your balancing-table was hinged upon.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

A


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## LucyLoofa (Jan 24, 2011)

You are very cool and so great about answering my questions! Thanks so much!  I also wanted you to know that your tanks look great, and I hope I haven't annoyed you with all of my questions!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

LucyLoofa said:


> ...I hope I haven't annoyed you with all of my questions!


This place , to me, is about helping each other out. I'm glad I could help. I 'm constantly learning too


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[fon


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

looking good


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## srivihk (Feb 20, 2011)

DogFish said:


> *DAY 150*
> 
> Going to try to collect some rain water this week to see if that will help.


That is very interesting..... would like to see how that goes...

Nice tank btw.


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## LucyLoofa (Jan 24, 2011)

DogFish said:


> *DAY 150*
> 
> No spawn yet from the Rams . Going to try to collect some rain water this week to see if that will help. I'll add some Oak Leaf tannin tea also. If that doesn't work, I'll turn on the Berry White CD


Berry White CD! haha
How long do you steep your oak leafs to create your tea?
Some keep it long some keep it short. Maybe if you vary it's strength the rams will respond differently? 
Or maybe I'm just being silly. Hope it works out for ya!


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

I dont wanna interrupt this charming discussion. And by all means, your dog looks very nice. But carnivore defecation is not to be used as fertilizer. Though with the amounts of soy that pet food companies are substituting the meat, your dogs poo should be half -way good to be used as fertilizer.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

LyL


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[qu


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

DogFish said:


> LucyLoofa - I steep the Oak Leaves just like one might for tea tp drink. I think there a saturation point in brewing the tea and after that it doesn't matter.


 So what will the Oak leaf tea do?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

It's a


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## georgedodge (Jun 28, 2012)

that is just disgusting


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

If humans didn't experiment, we would still live in caves (apparently some do) ; )


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## craigee2199 (Jan 21, 2011)

georgedodge said:


> that is just disgusting


Try being a little less closeminded and actually READ this thread beyond the first post/pictures. 

I gotta say, Dogfish, I've been lurking here awhile and this is the most inspiring thread I've seen thus far. Your results are simply amazing! Major props to you, THANK YOU for this :thumbsup:


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## LAKE (Jul 9, 2012)

Just the kind of forward thinking natural substrate information I have been looking for! ('course poo was a surprise) This kind of info is not easy to attain and is often overwhelmed by less than open minded naysayers. You have contributed to inspiring many ideas worthy of testing and also made me check twice and disregard other ideas without learning the hard way.

I really like that you have supported some of my beliefs (and backed 'em up!) that others would refute. You have demonstrated that anything is possible if you provide the right balance and take the right precautions. 

Thanks for this thread, the link to if from another site, the inspiration, knowledge and experience that you have provided! That charity camera drive is a good idea too. 

lol - Cause you don't own a horse!

I think the BARF diet is providing plenty of iron to the substrate as well. Natural, high protein foods are often a good source of iron.


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## LAKE (Jul 9, 2012)

I have been wondering about alternative substrate sources (never even considered poo), specifically mixing sources that could eliminate or reduce the need for chemical fertilizer additives.

The benefits of dirt, peat, sand, dry leaves/compost etc. is undeniable when carried out properly. I have found this is still lacking iron and possibly other trace nutrients. Safe poo does fit the void (I'd cook it longer), but I don't have a dog (lol) and don't trust someone else's judgement of the safety of their dog's poo. Cat poo is not appropriate. I have been considering sources such as beans, nuts (be careful), seeds, etc. Feeding live, high protein foods (eg mice) is always a great source of iron, but my lil fishies won't be feeding on that. 

Any wisdom you could share for considering non poo alternatives to the substrate?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[QUO
The if


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## LAKE (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes, I am with you on your theory before empirical data. Just a little extra cautious about my aquariums.

Sorry, MY cats poo is inappropriate. They are indoor cats but their number one job seems to be protecting the home from the giant invading critters that came when our lovely landlord spread 8-10,000 lbs of dead landfill soil. (e.g. crickets over 4", a block away they are 1/2"). I don't even know what most of these weird critters are or what they are feeding on, we have lost our shed and a section of yard to the spiders now. The bugs are also chemical tolerant. It's not getting in my aquariums. Someone else may have experience with cat poo, mine seems an excessive risk.

How do you feel about Garden Center bagged manure? Properly cooked of course.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I can


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## LAKE (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks for the help. Measurments are unnecessary. Much like you, I observe the balance and educate myself about the ingredients before use. I got my scholarship by working as a Baker with very inspiring mentors.

Keep on inspiring and innovating!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I'll


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Ju
co


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

*d*


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It's looking good *camera* and wow 80 degrees, I keep mine at 75 mainly to keep the mosses happy but I get worried when the take gets up to 80 - 82 in the summer but so far this year it hasn't happened and from what you keep your temps at and I've seen a few other members at 82 to 85, I guess it's no big deal.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Tho


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I <3 POO AND WORMS! YAY! 

Why buy fert when you can compost your own eh?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

xenxes said:


> I <3 POO AND WORMS! YAY!
> 
> Why buy fert when you can compost your own eh?


Tank 10, try using your own


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[fon


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

Dogfish,

I like this journal as it is different than the others. I have to be honest with you that I will probably not try what you did, but more important are the new things that you tried, may come in handy for somebody that may be studying substrate for aquarium use. I salute you dude!

**This journal is hilarious, yet educational


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Whoa dogfish?!?! New camera :d?


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Hey, I didn't even pay attention to that! lol


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[fon


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

I have dirt from a compost pile (twigs & leaves) in a tank that has baby cories in it and a jar with composted cow manure and top soil with a few more baby cories going and all is good. Pulled most the plants out of the compost tank to catch some baby cories, but they were growing good.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

spee


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

*DAY 274*

Decided to move the Echinodorus 'Paul Kloecker' out to the pond to try to save it. Hopefully the Sun light will help it pull through.

I replaced it with an Echinodorus 'Ocelot' that I saved from certain doom at the hands of a LFS plant death tank. It does have a healthy roots and had a better prognosis than Mr. Kloecker's hybred. They tossed in a baby that was equally sad.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

DogFish said:


> speerwashere - You should do a thread on that project


 I think I'm going to make the 10 a bare bottom tank for babies, but may set up a 20gl or 55g with compost. If so I'll start a thread on it


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

DogFish said:


> I got started feeding BARF with a dog that had cancer as you just can't feed for that properly with anyone's kibble. I feel we "cheated" death out of the trwo years for him. (11yrs)


Our 7 yrs old lab has mast tumor cell disease that forms cancer tumors and he wasn't able to keep anything down. (it messes with the esophagus so that he is basically regurgitating the food) We started him on Sojos food about 2 months ago. It's a dehydrated food that you just add water to and whatever raw meat you like. We add tofu to it as the vet thought it best. 

It's the only food he's been able to keep down, he absolutely LOVES it and he's lost 15 lbs (which he needed to). He looks great and has so much energy. I definitely think this food/diet is far better than anything else we've ever fed him. 

Sorry to divert from topic, but after reading about your experience, just had to share. :smile:


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[QUlb/klj


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

mmm


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## rgr555 (Jul 31, 2011)

lol this is hilarious


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

I did add two boxes of peat granules to my base layer after you had recommended keeping some organics in there, Frank. I even left a few stray leaves that "escaped" the sifting  I've seen a nice difference already....I think that may be why my Hygro corymbosa stricta is going super-red. I have to say that it works.

If you use peat granules, make sure that you put them on the very bottom! I had a few pop up and go floating merrily along with the current. Quite a few, actually! LOL! Once it's water-logged a peat granule will stay down, but my goodness! Those little dudes are very buoyant!! 



DogFish said:


> About the need for some Organic materiel and Anaerobic Bacteria in the MTS mix:
> 
> "The iron has to be dissolved in order to be available to most plants. It won't dissolve unless its chemically reduced to Fe++ (ferrous ion). That requires the absence of oxygen caused by anaerobic bacteria acting upon organic material (i.e. peat). Specialized anaerobic bacteria are also responsible for the reduction of the iron. The humic acids of peat also prevent the Fe++ from being oxidized and precipitating (going out of solution) by attaching to the dissolved iron ion (a process called chelation)."
> 
> http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

Peat and worming castings go into my tank. Last time I left leaves in the soil bubble kept raising from the soil. I know it was from the decompostion of the plant matter.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Meh....a FEW bubbles never hurt anything.....


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Jut


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

DogFish said:


> BTW - Rottweiler poop....always a RAOK around here, bring a big bag I have shovels you can barrow.


What you can't just ship some? 

Sent from a dark corner in my happy place


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Real men don't use shovels?? Rotty pooh looks just like the dog too, a black jacket and brown on the inside.

I'm glad to see this tank is still in action and it makes me wonder if you could make MDS as a stand alone soil.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quo


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

xxx


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## AVN (Oct 3, 2012)

This is so hilarious, I can't help but subscribe.

I have 4 dogs that I trained to poop in one pile, so this strikes very close to home for me, perhaps I'll make some doggypoo substrate to sell on the forums.


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## SupaTank (Oct 9, 2012)

you inspire me to try this with rabbit poo! (which turn out to be very high in macro nutrient).


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## Trail_Mix (May 17, 2011)

I'm going to have to try this with my own poop! How do you suggest I change my diet in order to get the best nutrients for the tank? I was thinking lots of spinach, kale, bananas, and perhaps a filet mignon every night for a week... thoughts?


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## CoffeeLove (Oct 31, 2012)

Trail_Mix said:


> I'm going to have to try this with my own poop! How do you suggest I change my diet in order to get the best nutrients for the tank? I was thinking lots of spinach, kale, bananas, and perhaps a filet mignon every night for a week... thoughts?


Oh goodness lol 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Trail_Mix said:


> I'm going to have to try this with my own poop! How do you suggest I change my diet in order to get the best nutrients for the tank? I was thinking lots of spinach, kale, bananas, and perhaps a filet mignon every night for a week... thoughts?


LOL! Please, no pics of the poop - in a shovel or otherwise :wink:


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quo


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

Trail_Mix said:


> I'm going to have to try this with my own poop! How do you suggest I change my diet in order to get the best nutrients for the tank? I was thinking lots of spinach, kale, bananas, and perhaps a filet mignon every night for a week... thoughts?


Human poop has more bacteria than animal poop. You might not want to do that at all. You tank will become a toilet.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quo


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## devilduck (May 9, 2012)

This is an awesome thread Dogfish! 

Once it gets out you can grow an awesome tank with dog poop substrate I'm going to start bagging and selling my mastiff's poop! Kitty litter substrate is for p#$%ys!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[qu


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## Trail_Mix (May 17, 2011)

DogFish said:


> I think a guy from Brooklyn might die if he ate a vegetable . Better just stick with eating slices and "Gabagool". Who know maybe pepperoni poop will make super MTS.
> 
> Forget about it!


Lol, isn't pizza a vegetable?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

nnn


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## AVN (Oct 3, 2012)

I saw what trail_mix said and I died laughing. Haven't had a cry like that in a while, thanks.



Trail_Mix said:


> I'm going to have to try this with my own poop! *How do you suggest I change my diet in order to get the best nutrients for the tank?* I was thinking lots of spinach, kale, bananas, and *perhaps a filet mignon every night for a week*... thoughts?


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## Trail_Mix (May 17, 2011)

AVN said:


> I saw what trail_mix said and I died laughing. Haven't had a cry like that in a while, thanks.


I'm glad I could make you laugh! I love making people laugh, so I'm glad you took the time to write that, it makes me happy to know!

:hihi::hihi::hihi:


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## StraightAddicted (May 20, 2012)

Haha def the greatest thread on here, laughing my butt off too AVN. I thought fish poop was somewhat benefitial, but I didn't think bringing the Browns to the Superbowl might help a fish tank. Stick to the trail mix diet its healthy enough haha


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

hhh


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## rainbuilder (Sep 21, 2011)

Still looking pooptastic!


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## le0p (Mar 28, 2012)

Awesome thread!

I have to say, I'd still wear gloves when putting my hand in that tank..


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Than


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## peter_l (Aug 3, 2008)

DogFish said:


> I think a guy from Brooklyn might die if he ate a vegetable . Better just stick with eating slices and "Gabagool". Who know maybe pepperoni poop will make super MTS.
> 
> Forget about it!


Gabagool! Grandma, is that you?


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

While not something I would consider trying (not to mention I don't have an animal I can scavenge poop from) I commend your efforts at breakthrough substrates. This is quite obviously a success if planned and assembled correctly.


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## paulrw (Apr 14, 2009)

awesome thread. just found it and spent the last hour reading it. my favorite part is that every 2 or so pages some one posts how dog food today has to much soy blah blah. and you post back b.a.r.f. lol it doesn't get old for me, sucks for you but funny for me. any ways tank looks great.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quo


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quo


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

GOOD LOOKIN TANK!!!

Where do you get your 10ppi foam at? 

Thanks,
Drew


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quo


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

ggg


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

IME peat does a great job of lowering the ph. Mine goes down almost a point with sphagnum moss as my substrate.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

theds


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## Idrankwhat (Mar 20, 2013)

interesting read. Eager to see how the revamp takes shape.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm ic


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## Idrankwhat (Mar 20, 2013)

it is a temptation. It's like leaving the tv on the same channel and same show 24/7. :icon_mrgr


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Dogfish: what are your thoughts on capping a dirt tank? I'm being a rebel and not doing it. Would like your opinion considering your poopadirt whatever else fell into the bottom tank substrate lol. So far the top layer is mushy. Tank has had water for about a week now


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Ver


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

I will post a picture of the stuff I'm using. I got it from a hydroponic store(love the place) suppose to be the "best organic soil" they carried. I tried making a stone path yesterday and the rock sank through the mushy layer. My curiosity consist of is that mushy layer going to stay mushy(which made trying to plant impossible) or will it compact with time. I plan on using Cali blackworms to stir up the substrate and keep the gasses to a minimum and what ever pest I acquire through plants


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I'll b


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

That's how I got the microswords in. The rocks on base seem like a good idea will give that a go for sure!

How will emptying then refilling affect my cycling?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quot


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Very true... Here I was going to just flush it away

I am using vital earth organic potting soil


Contains Vital Earth's® Organic Compost OMRI
Mega Worm® earthworm castings promotes enhanced germination, root growth, plant-growth, crop yield & water-holding capacity in soils.
Contains mycorrhizal fungi and Vital Earth's® Powdered Glacial Rock.
Contains guano, peat moss, and pumice.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Bat G


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

mnn


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

That bubble?


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## jarvitron (Aug 6, 2012)

That's a round stone with a bunch of tiny eggs on it looks like.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Ha! That white thing on the stone makes it look like the reflections you get with bubbles


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

double post


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

jarvitron said:


> That's a round stone with a bunch of tiny eggs on it looks like.


Th
v


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

DogFish said:


> The camera I have isn't great at close-up shots and I didn't want to spook the female just for a forum update pic.


What camera do you have now?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quot


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

*Re: Toxic Ten*



DogFish said:


> Dan(shinycard255) in an extreme act of generosity, gave me his old Samsung 5X.


Ok then, I have a old D3100 that I dont use and I was willing to part with it.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[qu


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[fon


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## Saxtonhill (Dec 28, 2012)

subscribed! Great substrate experiment and really interesting to see all the progressions......and we feed raw here also to both dogs!


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## sapphoqueen (Feb 9, 2010)

Just found this awesome awesome piece of tank journal... just wondering why the dog stuff is not used in the new setup? the leaves do better job? the smely stuff don't make his job???


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quote=


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## CannaBrain (Oct 3, 2008)

Whew, great thread read! Sorry I'm so late to the party.



Trail_Mix said:


> I'm going to have to try this with my own poop! How do you suggest I change my diet in order to get the best nutrients for the tank? I was thinking lots of spinach, kale, bananas, and perhaps a filet mignon every night for a week... thoughts?


Cracked me up too! Anyways, DogFish, so much good info in here. And thank you for all the info you supplied in regards to h202 I read in some other threads tonight. 

Also, a question... I've been told Canadian Peat moss is different than Sphagnum moss, whilst I'm familiar w/ peat as something else, can you give me your thoughts? I suppose I'm referring to your addition of "peat" when you were reworking substrate. In my familiarity, peat is the broken down (animals, overgrown moss, organic mat., etc.), base layer of peat bogs w/ sphagnum moss being the top-most growth. The peat I can purchase at my local garden center would be in a large, compressed bale of black goodness, whereas sphagnum moss would be what I saw in the pictures. Perhaps you added both? I suppose I'm just curious as to which people are referring to when they say they've used peat in substrate. Is this like a regional dialect thing for the same thing? I've used peat (the dirt) in my substrate for several tanks, but had not thought to add sphagnum. I have experimented using sphagnum in an HOB once to try to lower pH. Don't recall if it worked.

Anyways cheers on the willingness to experiment and to journal it so well! Any updates w/ the rams?


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

Peat moss will contain decomposed sphagnum remnants, and is oftentimes labeled as "sphagnum peat moss". It depends on the source but you can pretty much count on Canadian peat coming from Sphagnum bogs.

But you can get sphagnum moss itself dried out as milled or as "long fiber sphagnum" (LFS)...even live Sphagnum is available (although I wouldn't recommend this for aquariums)...they're just at different stages of life/decomp. The stuff shown in the pictures in post #179 looks more like LFS than traditional peat.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Cann


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## CannaBrain (Oct 3, 2008)

Thanks for the quick replies, jpappy and dogfish. Hehe, no worries on the specific parts, just a question I've been curious about for some time, I do appreciate the clarification. None of my tanks have been created like the one before it, constantly trying new things!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[quotgfs


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## GimmeGills (Oct 6, 2010)

Ever since I stumbled across this journal I have to tell you - this tank haunts me. Literally horrifies me to the point where I can't look away! But I will try dirt with my next tank because of you.Thanks for the nightmares.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Hey bud how's it going? Haven't seen your post around lately. How are the tanks coming along?


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## Kat12 (Aug 11, 2013)

just found this, interesting read, hum.... where do I have room for more tanks, rat poop, dog poop, ferret poop, cat poop...... rats and the ferrets eat well, could use self junk food fed kid poop.....

well found 2 hours ago and been reading


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[qu


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Darn it! I had a 10# care package of high quality dog poop all ready to go your way.

v3


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[qu


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

loo


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

[fo


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks for thinking way outside the box and sharing with us all. 

I look forward to your next experiment!


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## raven_wilde (Jul 12, 2006)

Wow... RIP Toxic Ten, you were an awesome experiment. Thanks so much for dutifully documenting this for us DogFish, it was great to check in on now and then, I look forward to seeing what you get up to next.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

thel


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## harsaphes (Oct 10, 2005)

Just a quick chime in about pet food. My cats eat raw. Venison and or Rabbit. This can be bought frozen and we cut it up and thaw as needed(natures variety) The biggest problem with "dry" pet food esp. for cats is that it sets up a water imbalance in their system. It's like if you and I ate a bowl of dry cereal for the rest of our lives. There is also thought that dry food has a link to diabetes in cats. The biggest changes in having cats on a raw diet...the litter box does not smell at all. Also the amount of fecal matter is SOOOOO tiny compared to an animal that eats dry. Also they only drink water a couple times a week. I just wanted to post this to back up BARF and also get the word out.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i'm sad to see this come to an end, it has been a wonderful read!

i am looking forward to see how the substrate does in a rip.  can't wait for that journal.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Aqu


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## devilduck (May 9, 2012)

We'll be expecting the future toxic 40!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


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## 1987 (Jan 27, 2007)

Rip sh** tank


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