# RCS not breeding. Crazy, right?



## ren (May 19, 2010)

What are your water parameters? Have you been keeping up with water changes? You mentioned you have a canister filter, are your shrimp being blown around?


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

I rarely do water changes to be honest.
I will test water tomorrow as well as get a water hardness kit tomorrow.
They are not being blown around. I have big rocks in the tank that stops most flow.


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## angelsword (May 16, 2009)

I'd pick up nitrate and ammonia test kits of I were you. Better yet would be a test kit like API's.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

angelsword said:


> I'd pick up nitrate and ammonia test kits of I were you. Better yet would be a test kit like API's.


I have it.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Here's what it seems to me. You said they were breeding for 4-5 months with no problems right? But then you never did a water change? Seems your water might be out of minerals that help shrimp molt.


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## randyl (Feb 1, 2012)

Nitrate can be an issue, temperature is another. If shrimps look happy then it could just be the off season. Another possibility is they feel the stress from being overcrowded. There is no set number for the maximum population as it greatly depends on the environment. I'll say if shrimps are not dying or showing bad colour (molting issue), they're fine. My PFR breeding also slows down due to high temperature, it gets as high as 27 and average at 25. No apparent death but breeding slows down.


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

If your, say, original 10 did great and became 50 or 100, and you never increased the amount of food you feed, breeding will stop. I saw a huge increase in berried and saddled females once I started specifically feeding the shrimp instead of letting them forage most of the time. So maybe you need to feed more. 

That, and do regular water changes. 

-Lisa


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

diwu13 said:


> Here's what it seems to me. You said they were breeding for 4-5 months with no problems right? But then you never did a water change? Seems your water might be out of minerals that help shrimp molt.


I did do water changes, but only like once a month.
I did a 15-20% water change in the breeding tank (w/o fish) today, lets see what happens.



randyl said:


> Nitrate can be an issue, temperature is another. If shrimps look happy then it could just be the off season. Another possibility is they feel the stress from being overcrowded. There is no set number for the maximum population as it greatly depends on the environment. I'll say if shrimps are not dying or showing bad colour (molting issue), they're fine. My PFR breeding also slows down due to high temperature, it gets as high as 27 and average at 25. No apparent death but breeding slows down.


What is the 'off season'?
They are not overcrowded. Like I said, I have one 10g and one breeder tank that has a huge footprint (about 4 feet by 2.5 feet) with only about 15 rcs. Temps are high. 76-77 in my 10g and 78-80 in my breeding tank.
Can you give me more info on the 'bad color' molting issues? That might be it!



Kunsthure said:


> If your, say, original 10 did great and became 50 or 100, and you never increased the amount of food you feed, breeding will stop. I saw a huge increase in berried and saddled females once I started specifically feeding the shrimp instead of letting them forage most of the time. So maybe you need to feed more.
> 
> That, and do regular water changes.
> 
> -Lisa


I will try feeding them more and see what happens. Its kinda hard now that I have Neon Tetras. They pick on the shrimp when they are around food. Gready litter boogers (boogers wasn't the first word that came to mind).


Thanks for all your input guys. Ill keep you posted. Keep the ideas coming.


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## anh (Jul 20, 2009)

are your shrimp seem a little dwarfer? deformed or dented shells? hard water is not good for CRS because it harden their shell too fast and they cant molt properly... however the opposite is true for cherries. In soft water cherry shrimp have a hard time growing their shell and have molting problems of their own. my guess is because cherries grow so much faster that they need the harder water to molt more often.

Anyway when i had my PFR shrimp in soft water ph < 7, i eccounter juvies death, deformed shells and molting problems. I raise it back up to 7.4, all of them started breeding again.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

anh said:


> are your shrimp seem a little dwarfer? deformed or dented shells? hard water is not good for CRS because it harden their shell too fast and they cant molt properly... however the opposite is true for cherries. In soft water cherry shrimp have a hard time growing their shell and have molting problems of their own. my guess is because cherries grow so much faster that they need the harder water to molt more often.
> 
> Anyway when i had my PFR shrimp in soft water ph < 7, i eccounter juvies death, deformed shells and molting problems. I raise it back up to 7.4, all of them started breeding again.


I am working on getting a water hardness test kit soon. Probably tomorrow. 

Any other ideas?

How would i go about making the water softer?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Until you test it don't bother trying to figure out how to make your water softer. Since neos are super hardy having 400ppm shouldn't be an issue.

But if you wanted to know.. softer water requires the use of RO/DI filters.


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

They're probably stressed to death by the neons. All tetras are shrimp destroyers. 

-Lisa


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

Kunsthure said:


> They're probably stressed to death by the neons. All tetras are shrimp destroyers.
> 
> -Lisa


I have a breeding tank with only RCS and a main tank that has tetras. No breeding in any of the 2 tanks.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

Went to two different stores looking for non test strip water hardness testers and couldn't find anything.

These results are via AIP 5 in 1 test strips.
GH is 180 ppm(chart doesn't go higher than that) and KH is around 60 ppm

So.... now what. haha.


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## anh (Jul 20, 2009)

ArabTanker said:


> I am working on getting a water hardness test kit soon. Probably tomorrow.
> 
> Any other ideas?
> 
> How would i go about making the water softer?


what i ment is that when i had my Cherries in soft water below 7 ph they have a hard time breeding and juvies growth were stunted, once i raise the GH they started breeding and growing again


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

Not showing improvement after water changes. 

What should my next course of action be?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Give it sometime? Are you seeing molts now?


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

diwu13 said:


> Give it sometime? Are you seeing molts now?


No not seeing any molts. My tap water is hard. Should I take care of that? Or just wait it out.

But the thing about my hard water is that I was successfully breeding A LOT in the past with the same water! Aghhh. What could it be. Why do they hate me?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hm.. well molting won't happen RIGHT after a water change. I think wait a week, should see some molts by then at least. Other besides that I'm puzzled.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

I saw one molt in one of the tanks this morning. Ill keep you guys updated. 10-20% water change tomorrow.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I'd remove the tetras. They are well known for eating RCS babies. I tried combining ruby tetras with my RCS, but even they ate all my babies (ruby tetras are the smallest tetras available, about 3/4" at full size). Once I removed the tetras, my RCS colony exploded again.

Don't worry about your pH. My RCS colony is doing fine in 8.0 pH water. RCS are tough buggers and don't need soft water.

What are you feeding them? I like to use Shirakura food from Japan. The shrimp love it. Make sure you're feeding them a high quality food.

Your water changes are pretty small. Increase them to 50%. You don't have to baby these shrimp.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

"Your water changes are pretty small. Increase them to 50%."

Wow. I never go more than 20% at my heaviest.


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> "Your water changes are pretty small. Increase them to 50%."
> 
> Wow. I never go more than 20% at my heaviest.


Before I realized just how different my params were from my tap in tanks where I've had fish and shrimp, I used to do like 80% WC because I'd slack about doing them. But my 20g is all fake plants and pretty heavily stocked so the nitrates would get up to 80ppm in a week so I always did huge WC there and my RCS were fine. 

But if your tank params match your tap params, big WC won't be too big of a deal if you do them weekly. But if you do big WC only monthly, the change in params and nitrates would be too extreme. 

But I will say this, I wouldn't do more than a 10-15% weekly WC with sensitive shrimp like CRS. 

-Lisa


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Wow. I never go more than 20% at my heaviest.


As long as your water parameters match, there's no reason to do small water changes. You only have to do small water changes if your water parameters don't match. My RCS are kept in regular treated tap water so there's no reason to be shy about the water changes.



Kunsthure said:


> But if your tank params match your tap params, big WC won't be too big of a deal if you do them weekly. But if you do big WC only monthly, the change in params and nitrates would be too extreme.
> 
> But I will say this, I wouldn't do more than a 10-15% weekly WC with sensitive shrimp like CRS.


I agree with doing smaller water changes with sensitive shrimp like CRS, but RCS are anything but sensitive so you can do big water changes with them, and they won't care.

I am curious about your comment that monthly water changes would cause the water parameters to be too extreme. How does time alter the water parameters? I get how the nitrates increase, but I don't think doing small water changes to maintain high nitrates is a good idea.

The reason I'm asking is because I had neglected my RCS tank for a while so I didn't do any water changes in the tank for several months. It's a planted tank and the bioload is very small so whatever nitrates were produced were used by the plants. When I finally got more time, I cleaned up the tank and did a very large water change. I didn't experience any problems with the RCS (or the ruby tetras that were in the tank at the time).

While I do water changes on that tank more frequently now, it just doesn't need them as often as my other tanks so it's not abnormal for me to wait a month between water changes. Each time, I do at least a 50% water change. Other than perhaps a drop in nitrates, what other parameter is being changed, especially to the point of being too extreme?


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I'd remove the tetras. They are well known for eating RCS babies. I tried combining ruby tetras with my RCS, but even they ate all my babies (ruby tetras are the smallest tetras available, about 3/4" at full size). Once I removed the tetras, my RCS colony exploded again.



Please read all my posts in the thread. Ive said multiple times that I have more than one tank. Only one tank has Tetras in it.

Thanks for the input everyone. Stay posted.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I apologize. I read a lot of threads and don't have them all memorized. I try to keep track, but I obviously got it mixed up in this case.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I apologize. I read a lot of threads and don't have them all memorized. I try to keep track, but I obviously got it mixed up in this case.


Not a problem, its understandable. Don't worry about it.


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

What are your tap params compared to tank params? If they are different, it'll be a big shock to do a big WC. Do you top off with RO or regular tap? If it's regular you're upping the TDS and hardness of the water, so it'll be a big, sudden drop in those params if you do a big WC.

Have you been measuring your nitrates right before the monthly water change? If your nitrates are high, the sudden drop in nitrates is stressful. So instead of one big WC, several smaller WC will bring the nitrates down slowly, allowing the shrimp to adjust over time. 

What kind of plants are in the tank? Slow growers like anubias aren't going to be sucking up nitrates like fast growers would. 

-Lisa


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

Kunsthure said:


> What are your tap params compared to tank params? If they are different, it'll be a big shock to do a big WC. Do you top off with RO or regular tap? If it's regular you're upping the TDS and hardness of the water, so it'll be a big, sudden drop in those params if you do a big WC.
> 
> Have you been measuring your nitrates right before the monthly water change? If your nitrates are high, the sudden drop in nitrates is stressful. So instead of one big WC, several smaller WC will bring the nitrates down slowly, allowing the shrimp to adjust over time.
> 
> ...


Params are the same. I top off with tap. No nitrates before water changes. I have a 75g rated filter on a 10g tank with overlapping duckweed and java moss. Java moss and duck weed in one. Java moss, duckweed, HC, and Dwarf Hairgrass in the tank that only gets monthly water changes.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

Agh. Still nothing. What is going on?


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

Hey guys. I just remembered I stopped using water dechlorinator about the same time they stopped. I have no chlorine in my tap (well) water. Dechlorinator is said to remove heavy metals, am I correct? Could this be the cause? I hope so.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

hey dont feel bad i cant keep cherry shrimp to save my life never have been able to keep them but all my others .. several neo's and crs and cbs and oebt are all just great and i dont do weekly water changes.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

I can keep them haha. They just stopped breeding all the sudden.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Wait sorry, so you stopped using dechlorinator or have you always been using it? Unless you're using RO/DI water I would always use dechlorinator.

Also, which brand are you using? Seachem Prime?


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

diwu13 said:


> Wait sorry, so you stopped using dechlorinator or have you always been using it? Unless you're using RO/DI water I would always use dechlorinator.
> 
> Also, which brand are you using? Seachem Prime?


Stopped using it. One day I decided to test my tap and then remembered im using well water and it has no chlorine, so I stopped using it. I think im using Top Fin. I added dechlorinator to all my tanks yesterday.

Update. I checked all my tanks, I found a molt in my Red Rili tank. But still no molts or eggs in my RCS tanks.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Not all dechlorinators remove heavy metals. If that's what you suspect you should start using products for it. Prime and Aquasafe both remove heavy metals. Lots more do it as well, that's just what is sitting next to me at the moment.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> Not all dechlorinators remove heavy metals. If that's what you suspect you should start using products for it. Prime and Aquasafe both remove heavy metals. Lots more do it as well, that's just what is sitting next to me at the moment.


The brand I use says it removes heavy metals. Do you think that will help breed?


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

As long as it says it removes them you should be good to go. Just didn't want you to assume all dechlorinators removed metals. As far as helping breeding, I have no clue. I'd lean towards the side of ' I doubt it'.


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> As long as it says it removes them you should be good to go. Just didn't want you to assume all dechlorinators removed metals. As far as helping breeding, I have no clue. I'd lean towards the side of ' I doubt it'.


I would be on that side too however thats the only thing that changed before and after they stopped breeding. So if thats not the reason. Im going to go crazy.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Have you tested the well water for trace metals? If not I would just dose the dechlorinator. Can't hurt right?


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## ArabTanker (Jan 22, 2012)

diwu13 said:


> Have you tested the well water for trace metals? If not I would just dose the dechlorinator. Can't hurt right?


I do use dechlorinator now.

Still nothing. Im losing hope. :icon_cry:


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