# Live Foods - The Best Natural Food for Fish! - Discussion



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Please use this thread to discuss your Live Culture recipes and ideas.

The information here as its presented, will be transfered over to a "clean thread" where the information will be provided free of discussion.

*Live Foods - The Best Natural Food for Fish! - Compilation*


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

OK, been seriously busy lately. Here's a couple more cultures.

*-Snails-*
For you puffer keepers. There are several species of snails that can easily be raised for a crunchy snack for your puffers or loaches. Ramshorn Snails (multiple species, most _Gyralus_ sp.), Pond Snails (_Lymnaea_ sp.), Malaysian Livebearing Snails (_Melanoides_ sp.), Apple Snails (_Pomacea_ or _Asolene_ sp.), and Nerite Snails (_Neritina_ sp.). All are cultured exactly the same way except for the Nerites. I'll touch on them later.
For all the other, just set up an aquarium just like you would for anything else. Size isn't important, but the bigger the tank, the more snails you can harvest. Set up with a sponge filter and a full spectrum light to encourage algae and plant growth. Hornwort and Java Moss are both good for snail tanks because they grow fast and help purify the water. Feed the snails some kind of algae or veggie-based food, and do regular water changes as you would a normal fish tank. 
Ramshorns, Ponds and Apples are all egg-layers, so you'll start to notice small jelly-like masses of eggs above and below the water line after a few weeks. The eggs should hatch within three weeks and the baby snails will grow quickly.
The Malaysian Livebearers are, uh...livebearers, so they don't lay eggs. They are extremely prolific and probably the easiest to raise, but their shells are thicker than most others, so some fish may find the Malaysians a tough nut to crack (literally). 

As for the Nerites, they require brackish or marine water to thrive and reproduce. The Olive Nerite is the most common Nerite found among the trade. Set up the tank as before, but wait until you start to get Diatomaceous Algae (the brown stuff) growing before adding the snails. Diatoms are the main diet of the Nerites, but they'll eat any other algae, just not with as much gusto. 
As before, the Nerites will lay eggs that will hatch in a few weeks, but the eggs are contained in an egg case that are attached to most every solid surface in the tank. When they hatch, the beby Nerites will go through a larval phase, known as veligers, where they are phototrophic. You can see them as specks on the surface of the water, nearest the light. Harvest them now, because they are virtually impossible to raise from veliger to adult snail.

*-Guppies-*
I can't believe I'm going to do one of these on guppies. What's to write? Set up the aquarium as normal, do regular water changes, feed the trillions of tiny babies to your hungry carnivores. Actually, you don't have to raise guppies. Convict Cichlids, Rosy Reds, and any livebearer are easily raised too.
Hmm...maybe by writing this, I can lead someone away from feeding dozens of comet goldfish a week to their big cichlid. Breeding your own feeders is much cheaper since you don't have to pay for them every week, over and over. The fish will be guaranteed healthier than the fish from the pet store (trust me, I work at one). By raising the fish yourself, you can control the water quality, the quality and quantity of food they receive, and the amount of fish in the tank. 
If you have some kind of piscivorous fish, this is a much better option than buying feeders every week. By piscivorous, I mean, eats ONLY fish. Oscars and Pirahnas are not included in this category, but that's another thread entirely.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

*-Microworms-*
I use corn flour, not corn meal and aged filtered water that's it. I didn't have much luck with corn meal. It might have been too coarse. I find yeast and oatmeal too pungent. The smell from the corn flour is actually pleasant.. Put the pasty mix in a plastic container with holes in the lid and wait a few weeks and the microworms should climb up the sides to the amount suitable for harvesting.


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## Walking_Target (Jul 16, 2008)

oops... already posted in the main thread.

please ignore


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

To expand on the idea of Vinegar Eels.
*
The original is: 

"-Vinegar Eels-
Vinegar Eels (again, nematodes) are the easiest food to culture for fry. They are smaller than Walter Worms so can be fed to the absolute smallest of the fry.
The culture container can be anything from a glass mason jar to a tupperware container, clear is best. Fill it 1/2 to 3/4 of the way full with a 50-50 mix of distilled water and apple cider vinegar. Add a chunk of an apple (doesn't matter which kind) or a spoonful of brown sugar to the mix and add the eels. Place them in a dark place and leave them alone. After a couple of weeks, a cloud should be seen moving around the medium. This is your vinegar eels. You can harvest them by swiping a q-tip through the cloud and swishing it around in a cup of aquarium water to remove the eels. Try to get as little of the vinegar into the water as possible.
The only maintenence you should have to do is replace the apple chunk or borwn sugar every once in a while. Cultures can produce for years without fizzling out."*

When I am ready to start using some I like to start and pour enough of the main culture into a wine bottle. Replace the vinegar/water you took out of the main culture with fresh.

Fill the wine bottle up until the neck of the bottle ends (where the neck just starts to taper out). Put some cotton balls or filter floss down in there as far as you can without it going into the bottle itself. Fill the top with clean, dechlorinated water. Come back in 15-20 minutes and that new water you added will be packed with Vinegar Eels. Get a syringe, suck them out, and squirt directly in your tank.

I used that method for over 3 years with no problems. Works well. The eels, for whatever reason, really like to migrate to the clean fresh water that sits on top of the floss.


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## Sixwing (Jan 30, 2009)

_Physa_ sp. snails are the same as legomaniac89 posted - just put one in some water (I raised them in less than a gallon for a while) with a sponge filter, a plant and a light, feed them when you feel like it. The more food they get, the more baby snails and eggs they produce. If they think they're not getting fed enough, they will put pinholes in leaves. They're hermaphroditic, so if you have one, you've got a whole colony. My loaches love these little guys, and I've seen bettas and livebearers eat the eggs. Their shells are very thin, so they're easy for even non-puffers to eat. For everyone else, I crush the shells and drop the whole mess in at feeding time - cories go nuts for mooshed-up pond snail.

Sorry if already posted...


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Burks said:


> To expand on the idea of Vinegar Eels.
> 
> When I am ready to start using some I like to start and pour enough of the main culture into a wine bottle. Replace the vinegar/water you took out of the main culture with fresh.
> 
> ...


Interesting...I've never heard that method of harvesting the eels before. Wonder why they all head for the pure water if they live naturally in an acidic solution?
Hmm, I need to find some empty wine bottles now :hihi:


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Ok guys, I'm running out of culture ideas here. Any suggestions that I haven't already done?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi gmccreedy,

I grow White worms (Enchytraeus albidus) for my fish. They are too big for fry, and very small fish, but they are great for medium size and larger fish. I raise them in a 2 gallon flat Sterlite container filled with a loose potting soil with no fertilizer added. I keep the soil evenly moist and I feed them oatmeal. High protein, no smell and they breed fairly quickly.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

I've got a question for you lego:
I've got a small colony of D. hydei I got from the pet store. I'd like to keep them going, but the substrate they're feeding on is rapidly depleting. I just had a big hatch, and I'd like the colony to perpetuate (my fish freaking live the things). What's the best/easiest/most hassle-free/least-offensive-for-guests-and-girlfriends method for continuation of the remaining colony?


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## defiantk (Oct 17, 2006)

Great thread but I was wondering, my house is kept at around 50-55F (10-13C) and I'll looking to start some kind of insect culture for my puffers, guppies and venus flytraps. Is there anything that would work okay in this temperature? I suppose crickets and maybe whiteworms but anything else?


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

*- Mosquito larva*
Put bucket or barrel outside, even a kiddie play pool. Add dechlorinated water. Mosquitos arrive when daytime highs hit 70F. In my area there are 2 types of mosquitos: cool weather mosquitos arrive first in the cooler temps in the 70s. The other type arrive when temps get up into the 80s, but don't come out until night. 

To harvest larva use a brine shrimp net. Feed to your fish every day. I use a 55g barrel. Rain keeps it full all the time. No filter or anything else on the barrel. See my article on Wikihow: 
http://www.wikihow.com/Raise-Midge-Larva-for-Fish-Food

*- Snails*
As for snails, they breed better when the water temp is 78F. I've had a 3g bucket of snails for about 1 year for my clown loach. This week I discovered my clown loach will also eat sinking reptile bites. He will probably eat any meaty sinking food. 

Also feeding snails a high protein food will get you more babies. I feed them earth worm flake. I'm sure if I changed the water more than once every 8 weeks they would do even better. But they are still breeding slowly.

*- Brine shrimp*
I just read an article about hatching brine shrimp in freshwater. But you have to add 1 tsp of baking soda (not powder) to 1 cup of water. No salt needed. And I saw a guy do this. He just uses tank water to hatch them in a SF Bay breeder called "The Shrimpery". 
http://www.fish.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=710153

Notice the clear jar on top. Hatchlings will swim to the top part, which detaches, when they are hatched.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi gmccreedy,
> 
> I grow White worms (Enchytraeus albidus) for my fish. They are too big for fry, and very small fish, but they are great for medium size and larger fish. I raise them in a 2 gallon flat Sterlite container filled with a loose potting soil with no fertilizer added. I keep the soil evenly moist and I feed them oatmeal. High protein, no smell and they breed fairly quickly.


Oh yeah, my fish go freakin crazy over whiteworms. I've already did a write up for their culture. See it here.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/82387-live-foods-best-natural-food-fish.html



ColeMan said:


> I've got a question for you lego:
> I've got a small colony of D. hydei I got from the pet store. I'd like to keep them going, but the substrate they're feeding on is rapidly depleting. I just had a big hatch, and I'd like the colony to perpetuate (my fish freaking live the things). What's the best/easiest/most hassle-free/least-offensive-for-guests-and-girlfriends method for continuation of the remaining colony?


I use a mashed potato flake/water mix in mine, mixed to a thick paste. It has virtually no smell and seems to be the most mold-resistant of any I've tried. Container-wise, you can use basically whatever size you want. I use glass mason jars and things of that sort for mine.

Just mix up the substrate in the new container and add the flies from the old culture and give it a couple of weeks.



defiantk said:


> Great thread but I was wondering, my house is kept at around 50-55F (10-13C) and I'll looking to start some kind of insect culture for my puffers, guppies and venus flytraps. Is there anything that would work okay in this temperature? I suppose crickets and maybe whiteworms but anything else?


That's the perfect temperature for blackworms and whiteworms, but that would probably be a bit cool for most anything else. About every other culture-able insect needs temps in the 70s to be happy.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

bulrush said:


> *- Mosquito larva*
> Put bucket or barrel outside, even a kiddie play pool. Add dechlorinated water. Mosquitos arrive when daytime highs hit 70F. In my area there are 2 types of mosquitos: cool weather mosquitos arrive first in the cooler temps in the 70s. The other type arrive when temps get up into the 80s, but don't come out until night.
> 
> To harvest larva use a brine shrimp net. Feed to your fish every day. I use a 55g barrel. Rain keeps it full all the time. No filter or anything else on the barrel. See my article on Wikihow:
> ...


Nice write-up for the mosquito larva, bulrush. I can't wait for summer so I can start getting the skeeters for my fish.

As for the brine shrimp, I've actually used the SF Bay hatchery before, but when I wrote up the culture for them, I focused on creating a reproducing, self-maintaining culture that would last for years if you maintain it properly. The eggs can hatch in freshwater, but the nauplii won't be able to develop into adults without salt.
The hatcheries are nice for quick bbs though, especially if the main brine shrimp culture crashes for some reason, you have a backup.


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

> *- Mosquito larva
> *Put bucket or barrel outside, even a kiddie play pool.


I got quite a good crop last year in my birdbath. Fish went nuts over them.

Just make sure you hide your mosquito breeding operation from neighbours. It will not make you popular.

Around here,we're instructed to have no standing or stagnant water because of the 'skeeter problem.


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

grindal worms are extremely easy, and dare I say, idiot-proof. I've had a culture for a couple years now. I actually forgot about it for several months, tossed food in and got it going again.

They are a bit too large for new fry, but are great for small tetras, small rasbora species, and Dario dario to condition for breeding. The are about 2-4mm in length....

In a plastic container (disposable tupperware boxes and 'shoeboxes' from the dollar store work great) place re-hydrated coconut fiber. These are available in pet stores in the reptile section in dehydrated bricks. Moisten the substrate by spritzing with a water bottle, and add your starter culture. I use oatmeal baby food which is sprinkled on the surface and moistened.

Harvesting is by placing a piece of plastic with moistened baby food on top. The next day I remove the plastic and stir it into the tank.

Maintenance is by feeding every couple of days and keeping moist with a spray bottle.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

No one else has any fancy recipes to share?


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Sorry man, I'm all out :icon_eek:


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Anybody grow red cherry shrimp for fish food?


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

I don't see why you couldn't, but I don't see the point when you can sell them for a buck a pop. IMO, it would be money down the drain.

However, I suppose if you had an RCS population explosion and needed some population control, I'm sure they'd make good food


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

do people buy cherries anymore.. I bought 12, years ago and now have hundreds. I'd imagine it's like that for everybody.


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## KDahlin (Mar 12, 2007)

*Daphnia magna*

I grow daphnia magna. I have two 5 gallon aquariums each sitting 8” below 56 watts of screw-in fluorescent light. I have the lights on a timer and the light is on for 20 hours a day. I have all the daphnia I could ever want. My fish love it! I do water changes on the aquariums of about 30% about every 1.5 weeks using water from my fish tanks to replace the old daphnia water (after adding 1/4 tsp Miracle Grow/ 3 gallons of fish water).


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## nkambae (Feb 26, 2007)

*mosquito larva*

Make sure the water in your mosquito hatchery doesn't go stagnant as the mosquitoes that host encephalitis LOVE stagnant water. Then, of course, there is always that pesky West Nile Virus. Oh, and don't forget malaria. Your neighbors and local health officials (maybe the CDC as well) will be quite displeased with you when they discover your hatchery is a disease vector and the source of a local outbreak!

http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/pcmosquitoes.htm

Mosquito larva are an awesome live food and many of our aquarium fishes relish and feed on them in the wild. Just be careful or find an alternative food source. Good luck.

stu


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

legomaniac89 said:


> I don't see why you couldn't, but I don't see the point when you can sell them for a buck a pop. IMO, it would be money down the drain.
> 
> However, I suppose if you had an RCS population explosion and needed some population control, I'm sure they'd make good food



Yeah, pretty much... Only one of the LFS's i go to buys them, but it's a 40 minute drive so i don't go there often. When i had population issues, i used to scoop up a few shrimp and toss them in the angelfish tank.


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## connordude27 (Jun 14, 2008)

kinda old thread but...

so i bought 3 cultures on aquabid....

the confused beetles everyone eats 
haven't tryed the vinager eels
cherry barbs actively hunted down the microworms and ate them


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Red worms, peas(yep, they are live food), and most veggies you grow.

Earthworms are easy to grow and collect, wash well, then place in wet floss, they will crawl up through the floss to get away from the water and expel most of the soil in their gut. Earthworm Compost bins work well.

Peas and most garden foods: basic gardening, organic mulchs and ferts etc. 
Shell the peas and then fed. Many plants are eagerly accepted.

Algae: add a jobes stick(about 1/4) to a bucket with 1-2 gallons of water and somewood /rocks etc. Wait till furry, add to tank for algae eaters.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Anyone know of an online store that sells Grindal/White Worms, Vinegar Eels, and Flour Beetles? I can't find them on AquaBid from one source. Hate paying shipping twice.

Nice ideas Tom. I'm going to have to try the algae idea. Do you stick it outside or just under a small light?


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## connordude27 (Jun 14, 2008)

i know! get the 4 culture special from killer_aquatics but it's $10 more to add on a grindal culture and you get upgraded to priority shipping 
(they are out of grindals ATM)
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?foodl&1239829882


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## Esox lucius (Feb 17, 2009)

bulrush said:


> *- Mosquito larva*
> Put bucket or barrel outside, even a kiddie play pool. Add dechlorinated water. Mosquitos arrive when daytime highs hit 70F. In my area there are 2 types of mosquitos: cool weather mosquitos arrive first in the cooler temps in the 70s. The other type arrive when temps get up into the 80s, but don't come out until night.
> 
> To harvest larva use a brine shrimp net. Feed to your fish every day. I use a 55g barrel. Rain keeps it full all the time. No filter or anything else on the barrel. See my article on Wikihow:
> http://www.wikihow.com/Raise-Midge-Larva-for-Fish-Food


I really think that you should not have this on the list, or if you keep it you should put a disclaimer. I worked for a mosquito control company, so I know a lot about mosquitoes, and these types of containers are the best breeding areas for West Nile and Encephalitis carrying mosquitoes, Culex sp., Anopheles sp. etc. PLEASE, do not put a container in your yard, especially if you live in an area where these diseases are prevalent. In some cities you can be fined for this. Even if you dont live in an area with these diseases, you are bolstering the mosquito population, which would most certainly upset your neighbors, plus if you have mosquito control in your town. county, you are in a sense throwing away your tax dollars and those of your neighbors. A single pot or birdbath can produce as many mosquitoes as a small-midsized pond, and for the most part mosquitoes of all species would prefer to lay their eggs in small containers. Again, I strongly urge the moderators to remove this guide for mosquitoes, there are much better alternatives that arent dangerous or a nuisance species.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Esox lucius said:


> I really think that you should not have this on the list, or if you keep it you should put a disclaimer. I worked for a mosquito control company, so I know a lot about mosquitoes, and these types of containers are the best breeding areas for West Nile and Encephalitis carrying mosquitoes, Culex sp., Anopheles sp. etc. PLEASE, do not put a container in your yard, especially if you live in an area where these diseases are prevalent. In some cities you can be fined for this. Even if you dont live in an area with these diseases, you are bolstering the mosquito population, which would most certainly upset your neighbors, plus if you have mosquito control in your town. county, you are in a sense throwing away your tax dollars and those of your neighbors. A single pot or birdbath can produce as many mosquitoes as a small-midsized pond, and for the most part mosquitoes of all species would prefer to lay their eggs in small containers. Again, I strongly urge the moderators to remove this guide for mosquitoes, there are much better alternatives that arent dangerous or a nuisance species.


This is why I dump the entire culture and start it over once a week. Unless your climate is very warm and humid, the mosquitoes should take 10-14 days to go from egg to adult. If you dump them every 7 days, they won't have a chance to change into adults.


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## Esox lucius (Feb 17, 2009)

legomaniac89 said:


> This is why I dump the entire culture and start it over once a week. Unless your climate is very warm and humid, the mosquitoes should take 10-14 days to go from egg to adult. If you dump them every 7 days, they won't have a chance to change into adults.


You are right to a certain degree, but we had observed egg-adult life cycles in 2-3 days, and many do complete there cycle in a week or less, here in Chicagoland. In general the heat and humidity do not affect the life cycle time that much, especially in the summer and especially in a small container. This practice, no matter how it is done, should not be promoted in any way, shape or form.


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## requiem (Oct 25, 2008)

*composting!*

I thought I had already posted in this thread, hmm... If you have a worm compost, you have an infinite supply of baby worms. They're so tiny even my boraras brigittae (about 1cm long) can easily eat them. 

Why pay money for worms when the average household generates enough veggie waste to keep a large colony going? Plus you get all the cool benefits from a compost


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

requiem said:


> I thought I had already posted in this thread, hmm...


You probably already did. We had some...uh...technical difficulties a while back when my thread was being split into the Compliation and Discussion sections.


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## Esox lucius (Feb 17, 2009)

I dont mean to be pushy, but I must insist that the mosquito larvae guide be removed or include a stern warning, especially with summer creeping up on us. Lego I see that you live in northern indiana, which has nearly the identical species of mosquitoes as us, including Culex pipiens, the west nile vector, you need to discontinue your practice. A week, as I stated above, is too long to leave a container out, especially as it gets warmer. Culex can go from egg to adult VERY quickly when in a small container that is warmed much faster than a body of water. It is not responsible to practice these methods just to obtain free fish food. Now I will get off my soapbox, but please take the guide off, I am not BSing you, mosquitoes were my life for a few years... now I have moved on to midges:icon_roll


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Has anyone cultured blackworms? I got some from a LFS I trust, and my fish seem to love them. The only thing is that I have heard of fish dying from eating dead ones. I'm a little concerned because sometimes a few dead ones wind up in the tank. I haven't had any problems so far, butI'd just like to know. Is this because people overfeed and the resulting ammonia spike kills the fish, or because there is something specific to blackworms that kills fish?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I noticed in a little container (1G?) of water and semi-anaerobic top soil and water hyacinth, the mosquito population is explosive. Algae/ green water is not a factor. Looks like the larvae love bacteria and microbes.

Compare this to a 5G bucket of semi-green water, the larvae are minimal. 

I wonder if a daphnia explosion can be achieve with this as well rather than green water. I remember reading, back in the day, people would use cow manure but that's too unappetizing these days. Too bad it's going to get cold in a month or so. I really want to try this out.

hmmm. oh, what the heck, I'll order some daphnia off aquabid and see. I can always bring this inside.


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

I just bought Culturing Live Foods by Michael R. Hellweg...great book btw! It isnt just a dry step by step manual, its actually a pretty interesting read. But anyway, he states that mosquito larvae do indeed feed on bacteria and microbes, so what you are seeing makes sense. He also states that daphina will eat pretty much anything in the water column, doesnt really matter it is. it doesnt have to be algae, it can be just about anything. Obviously some things are better than others.

The use of cow or chicken manure is talked about too. Basically it was just seed to the water, and get the food chain rolling. Essentially causing a plankton bloom and getting the water full of food and making it suitable for raising fry.

So anyway, i didnt read through this whole thread, but if it hasnt been said yet...check out that book!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

interesting, so you can raise daphnia without green water. That might make things easier for us nothern folks.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I reactions to bad odours thus wondering which one has the least smell to it?


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Hilde said:


> I reactions to bad odours thus wondering which one has the least smell to it?


My white worm culture has zero smell unless you stick your head in the tub(s). Even then it is just an earthy smell, like after a good rain. 

On the note of white worms, I found that keeping them upstairs and in the basement make little difference (so far). Been about two months and the cultures upstairs do just as well. Probably a 15-20 degree difference. *shrugs*


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

I have been very intrigued by the idea of raising live food for my fishes for almost as long as i have been keeping fish. But I never kept enough at one time to justify attempting to do it. I now have between 30-35 fish in my one tank, and several other tanks that i have slowly working on getting the equipment for. So I think i could get some good use out of a couple different live cultures.

My question is...should i pull the trigger on obtaining my starter cultures soon, before the weather starts to turn? How do they ship during the cold months? I know its still possible to ship, but i dont want to pay 3 times as much for shipping as i do for the starter culture.


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## ace007 (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi guys / ladies

Sorry for my ignorance, but on the note of infusoria, I'm trying the potato route and boiled it a bit and added tank water to the potato in a glass container.

I've read on a few websites that when this turns white / murky then you have infusoria, and on other sites they say you need to wait till the white murk start to disappear then only do you have infusoria.

Then again they say if there is a bad odor from it it's bad and need to be thrown away.

Now my question is that my mixture started to have a smell on day 2 already and also started the white murk in the water. Does this mean I could already have infusoria?

I'm a bit worried that my culturing effort is not going to work and that I will lose my fry. I was surprised by my blue gouramis with eggs and the little ones is now 3 - 4 days old. I started the mixture when I saw the eggs. So it should be around 6 days now in the glass pot.

I already made a siphon to control a continuous flow (drop a minute) of infusoria to the tank. 

Any help would be appreciated as I don't really want to lose my first batch of baby gouramis. O I also read that having apple snails in the tank is good for infusoria in the tank so I have 5 big ones in there


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

VisionQuest28 said:


> My question is...should i pull the trigger on obtaining my starter cultures soon, before the weather starts to turn? How do they ship during the cold months? I know its still possible to ship, but i dont want to pay 3 times as much for shipping as i do for the starter culture.


yes, do it now when it's not too hot or cold. they ship great in temperate weather.




ace007 said:


> Hi guys / ladies
> 
> Sorry for my ignorance, but on the note of infusoria, I'm trying the potato route and boiled it a bit and added tank water to the potato in a glass container.
> 
> ...


take 1/3 of the smelly water/murky water and put 2/3 of aquarium water. wait until the smell is gone, then you'll have infusoria. The smelly part is produed by bacteria and infusoria feed on the bacteria. Don't feed the smelly water directly into the aquarium. It's full of ammonia and bacteria.

Don't throw it away. Of course your mixture will smell. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/82387-live-foods-best-natural-food-fish.html#post787774


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## ace007 (Sep 16, 2009)

Thank you for clearing that up. So will the murky water clear up or will it stay white? Thank you for all the help.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

yes, the water should clear up. You can buy a little toy microscope to see what you have. Bacteria are much smaller than protozoans and are usually round.


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## Skrimpy (Sep 16, 2009)

Any members out there that have, MircoWorms, Vinegar Eels, and Grindal Worms for sale? I would like to buy all these from one person so I can save on shipping. I am planning on breeding some Bettas soon, hopefully. 

College Student = Broke.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Skrimpy said:


> Any members out there that have, MircoWorms, Vinegar Eels, and Grindal Worms for sale? I would like to buy all these from one person so I can save on shipping. I am planning on breeding some Bettas soon, hopefully.
> 
> College Student = Broke.


post a WTB on SnS... you might get some for free. I got mine for free. If I have any alive, I'll pm you.


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## Skrimpy (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks for the tip mistergreen! I will try that.


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## nismo tetra (Oct 11, 2009)

VisionQuest28 said:


> I just bought Culturing Live Foods by Michael R. Hellweg...great book btw! It isnt just a dry step by step manual, its actually a pretty interesting read. But anyway, he states that mosquito larvae do indeed feed on bacteria and microbes, so what you are seeing makes sense. He also states that daphina will eat pretty much anything in the water column, doesnt really matter it is. it doesnt have to be algae, it can be just about anything. Obviously some things are better than others.
> 
> The use of cow or chicken manure is talked about too. Basically it was just seed to the water, and get the food chain rolling. Essentially causing a plankton bloom and getting the water full of food and making it suitable for raising fry.
> 
> So anyway, i didnt read through this whole thread, but if it hasnt been said yet...check out that book!




I to have this book, it is awesome. I am going to start my own redwiggler farm soon, hopefully next weekend. A few days ago he said version 2 of the book is coming out very soon. Its about growing insects to feed. He said cockroaches are included in the book and praying mantis's i think. Should be just as interesting. Hell it would be cool to have praying mantis as pet anyway.


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## Voozle (Mar 22, 2009)

Hopefully this is an appropriate place to ask this...

I have yet to try culturing and feeding my own live foods, although I too own Mike Hellweg's essential guide and have read much of the information available on these forums. I want to begin breeding fish, and I know live foods can be extremely helpful - if not vital - in preparing many species to spawn. However, I only ever have one or two small tanks set up at a time, and no local source of live foods. Is there a practical way to culture small quantities of a variety of foods both for readying adult fish to spawn and for supporting the fry through the early stages of growth? Are certain live foods better suited to production on a limited scale than others?

Basically, I would like advice on how to culture suitable amounts of food for only a few tanks without spending more time and resources doing so than on the tanks themselves. Live foods can't just be for people with _MTS_! Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Check out the live food sticky. Pick the food/animal thats convenient for you.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Does anyone know which of the following worms is the biggest and smallest? Tubifex, grinal, white worms. I'm trying to feed some cpd and threadfins. And I'm not sure which one to go with


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Grindals are the smallest for sure and white worms are about 2-4x the size of the Grindals. Tubifex are longer than whiteworms, but are much thinner. Like hair-width thin. If you're looking to start a culture, go with either the Grindals or whiteworms. Tubifex are a pain to keep clean


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

dr.tran said:


> Does anyone know which of the following worms is the biggest and smallest? Tubifex, grinal, white worms. I'm trying to feed some cpd and threadfins. And I'm not sure which one to go with


Vinegar eels would probably work, too.


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## MONARK (Jun 4, 2009)

I feed my CPDs grindal worms and micro worms to CPD fry.


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## Suenell (Jun 28, 2010)

Is there a way to identify these micro worms? 

I bought some moss from online & have now found some tiny worms in my aquarium & was horrified! The fish doesn't seem to be affected & while staring in the water, wondering what to do, I saw several of the worms whipping through the water only to be eaten by my fry so I thought... ok maybe they're good food. Like I said, no fish seem to be getting anything attached to them so I guess they are ok but I'd like to know what I've got here.

Thanks for this marvelous thread. I could just imagine each of you with your various concoctions of jars & raising little farms of critters in boxes. Makes me want to give it a try, knowing I did well in the past with raising mealy worms & crickets for my (now dead) Gecko.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Most of the cultures seem best suited for fry. 
What's the best/easiest (nonaquatic) larger live food to culture for adult fish? Whiteworms?

I'm gonna start vermiculture composting with red wigglers again, but want to have a separate culture to add variety to the fish diet.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

Grindals are super easy and all of my fish, adults included go craaaazy for them.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Daphnia is pretty easy to culture for medium size fish.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I'd prefer nonaquatic, so daphnia are out. I'll probably go with grindal.. they seem easy and easy to get.


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Grindals and whiteworms are both really easy to culture, the whiteworms prefer cooler temps though. Earthworms are extremely easy as well.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

I haven't tried this, but found it in my biology textbook.

*Fruit Flies*
To start a fruit fly culture, you'll need a jar with a lid, and part of a banana. The banana goes in the open jar, place it on your kitchen counter, wait a few days and soon you will see fruit flies feeding on the banana. Put the lid on, and refresh the bit of banana (or other fruit) every three days for your culture. Take a few out to feed whenever you need to. This is a cost-effective method of culturing live food for small fish and large fry.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

defiesexistence said:


> I haven't tried this, but found it in my biology textbook.
> 
> *Fruit Flies*
> To start a fruit fly culture, you'll need a jar with a lid, and part of a banana. The banana goes in the open jar, place it on your kitchen counter, wait a few days and soon you will see fruit flies feeding on the banana. Put the lid on, and refresh the bit of banana (or other fruit) every three days for your culture. Take a few out to feed whenever you need to. This is a cost-effective method of culturing live food for small fish and large fry.


Buy the wingless flies. You don't want these guys flying all over the house.

Petco sells a wingless culture.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

AH!  And there I deleted the portion I wrote on the wingless _D. melanogaster_  Thanks MG.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

How would you get flying flies out of a jar and into the aquarium without losing most of them? I doubt that they would just sit there and let you pluck them out to feed the fish.

What are the pitfalls to raising wingless fruit flies? It seems almost too easy.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

No pitfalls really except for the smelly medium. It's pretty easy. 

You'll need a fine mesh lid so air can get through and some medium fiber they can use to climb out of the food medium. They can mate with the regular winged Drosophilidae and their children will be winged.


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## thelastlife (Feb 14, 2011)

anyone have experience with dragon fly and damsel fly nymphs, water bugs, water scorpions, and water boatman bugs?


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

Resurrecting a dead thread. 

I have microworms on the way, I am going the mashed potato route. The worms are for my new threadfin bows, they cant eat anything bigger.

*Potatoes sure aren't very nutritious, what if I blend some fish food into the mix to up the vitamins, protein and fat in the worms?

any ideas?*


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

dprais1 said:


> Resurrecting a dead thread.
> 
> I have microworms on the way, I am going the mashed potato route. The worms are for my new threadfin bows, they cant eat anything bigger.
> 
> ...


just buy some powdered spirulina or chlorella algae. then add the algae to the mash potato blend. its high in hufa and should transfer over to the fish pretty well.

its about 15-25 dollars for a pound of algae, depending on the brand and type. you wouldnt have to use very much of it, so it would last a while.

for microworms, i would go with chlorella. the actual particles are smaller than spirulina powder.


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

auban said:


> just buy some powdered spirulina or chlorella algae. then add the algae to the mash potato blend. its high in hufa and should transfer over to the fish pretty well.
> 
> its about 15-25 dollars for a pound of algae, depending on the brand and type. you wouldnt have to use very much of it, so it would last a while.
> 
> for microworms, i would go with chlorella. the actual particles are smaller than spirulina powder.


thanks, I have been putting spirulina sinking wafers(25%), veggie sticks(25%)and cat foot(50%)in a coffee grinder until it's a powder and using this for my whiteworms with good results.

a pound my outlast me, I read lots of info on the web but nobody ever talks about supplementing their oat/corn/potato mix with anything.

seems like they should eat the other stuff as well...


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## TraceyW (Apr 3, 2012)

For my microworms I use cooked oatmeal. Wait for it to cool, add to my new microworm container and sprinkle yeast on the top. Add some microworms from my old culture and I have a new colony ready for harvesting from in a few days. I use a small nail to poke holes in the lid for air circulation. The culture will last for several weeks but when it starts to get watery I create a new culture before the old dies off.


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## funkyfish88 (Apr 8, 2011)

Is there a ratio of yeast and oatmeal used? It seems the new medium would have the funky (old sock) smell right away. Not the bread dough yeast smell I had with my original culture (which is tolerable).

I have tried 1" oatmeal, then sprinkle yeast on top. Also have tried mixing yeast throughout.

I may try corn powder - with yeast?

any suggestions are appreciated.


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

funkyfish88 said:


> Is there a ratio of yeast and oatmeal used? It seems the new medium would have the funky (old sock) smell right away. Not the bread dough yeast smell I had with my original culture (which is tolerable).
> 
> I have tried 1" oatmeal, then sprinkle yeast on top. Also have tried mixing yeast throughout.
> 
> ...


I don't use yeast anymore, no problems so far.


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## welsh dave (Jan 18, 2015)

*breeding daphnia*

Hi, if I want to have a good at breeding live daphnia for food, can I use a pack of live daphnia from my local shop to start off? Will they breed and form a culture?
Any help with this greatly appreciated
Dave


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

welsh dave said:


> Hi, if I want to have a good at breeding live daphnia for food, can I use a pack of live daphnia from my local shop to start off? Will they breed and form a culture?
> Any help with this greatly appreciated
> Dave


Yes, a live batch will breed for you. Use aged aquarium water or rain water. No chemicals or it'll kill them.

Leave the lights on 24/7 if raising indoors. This will help products microbes/algae daphnia will feed on in addition to what you feed them.


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