# Total confused noob with empty 10g



## MidnightSkies (Feb 3, 2009)

I have an empty taken apart 10 gallon tank that I'm looking to plant and move my betta into now that I'm down to one, but it seems like the more I read here the more confused I get. Most things here tend to just go over my head honestly. I'll try to keep things as short as possible, simple, and to the point. Need tons of info.

I need some help with:
Substrate (I've only ever used decorative gravel. Looking for something, inexpensive, easy to use, and that doesn't cloud the water)
Lighting (My hood/light is pretty much useless. Compact fluorescent lights would be the way to go? What wattage and how many for low tech 10g? What kind of hood do they go in?)
Plants (the easiest thing for me to come across here, but help is still always appreciated)
Ferts? (I'd prefer not using them, but with only one fish in the tank (possibly) I have a feeling that I don't have much choice?)
How much maintenance and algae problems typically come along with a low tech tank with no cleaning fish?
A cost estimate and how long it would take to have it ready to add my betta would be appreciated as well.

Basically all I have is a tank and a filter. Use no carbon correct? I also want to stay away from CO2 as I think it's a little too complicated for me right now. Another thing to point out is that the only place I can put the tank does get sunlight for a couple hours in the morning. I'm considering at least attempting to add a couple ottos, shrimp, or snails to help with algae, which brings me to another thing I'd like to mention...
We've had water issues. I'm in the country on a well. The water is softened with potassium (is it bad for snails or shrimp?). On test strips the water reads very soft, but when the Total dissolved solids are measured they read usually in the 370s. The water does go through a lot of different treatments before coming to the sink (UV, carbon, etc.) but as it's my parents' house, they don't keep up with changing things. I have had tanks full of snails die mysteriously all at once, and multiple bettas die all of the sudden (unfiltered tanks). If the carbon treatment doesn't get changed when it's supposed to it kills everything unless I have carbon in the fish tank filters. I have however now learned what signs to look for to get carbon in the tank quick. Just info that may or may not matter when it comes to a planted tank. PH and alkalinity are also high in my water, but on a good note, there is no chlorine or chloramines ever. 

One more question, would I need any extra test kits for plants (minerals/metals)? Test kits are a bit pricey for me, but I have ammonia, nitrate, PH (I will need nitrite).


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## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

Hello, I also just started, but this is what I gathered;
Substrate, if you want something cheap, you could use sand or topsoil
Lighting, yes you want compact fluorescent lights, you should get one that is 6500K (Kelvin), I got one at Lowes called Daylight bulbs for about $4.
Plants, I honestly have no idea, I just got plants from my LFS because I didn't want to order online
Ferts, I would order some dry ferts online, but right now, since I just started, I'm only using Flourish Comprehensive right now, which I believe are just micro nutrients, but I believe you need some macro nutrients, which are ferts that does a couple specific nutrients.
Around where I live, sand is about $6-$7 for 5 lb., $4 for a light, plants, depending on what you get, I bought two clumps of dwarf hairgrass for $7 each, a fairly large thing of java moss for $5, amazon sword for $7, banana plant for $6, a bunch of anacharis for $8, water sprite for $7, and about $20 dollars for fish and shrimp, all for my 5.5 gallon. If you had an old filter or something you could probably cycle the tank in 2-3 weeks.

I wouldn't use carbon, as I've heard that it can take out things your plants need, I'm not too sure what to do about algae because I've had a bunch myself, haha. From the sounds of it, I think you should put aside a bucket of water a day before you water change and let it sit overnight or so, but I think there is other stuff you should do, but you should let others help you with that, because I don't know too much about that part.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Me thinks I can help a little!
Subtrate: If you are going low tech, I would sugest PFS (AKA pool filter sand) which is available in almost all pool stores. If you want you could also try bagged soil, or try making MTS (AKA mineralized top soil) with a layer of sand on top.
Lighting: If you have one of those normal 10g aquarium hoods, replace the bulbs with those curly flourecent bulbs, it works great!
Plants: Crypts, Anubias' Java fern and Java moss are all great low light plants. There are more thou.

If you do it all right, you shouldn't have too much trouble. You will get a littile alae, no matter what though! The people here are AWSOME! And have helped me out alot!


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## MidnightSkies (Feb 3, 2009)

Wouldn't pool filter sand be the same as using aquarium gravel since it doesn't contain any minerals? I believe I do still have some leftover in the garage though. I grow carnivorous plants. I've just never had much luck with fully aquatic plants.
Would the hood and light need to be a fluorescent light, incandescent, or something else to fit the compact fluorescent bulbs?


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## webgirl74 (Dec 2, 2009)

Absolutely you can use pool filter sand. I have it in my 20 gallon. I have anubias (some tied to driftwood, some with their roots in the sand), java moss, java fern, broadleaf crypt, and some variety of val. All are doing great under 15 watts of 6700K lighting. I dose the water column once every week or two with Flourish. No CO2...so this is a truly low-tech tank. I have had a bit of algae but have an algae eater to keep that under control and he's done his job so far. Ottos are a good option for a small tank as they stay small and eat a lot. If your tank is going to get a few hours of strong sunlight per day, you'd want to probably get a timer so that your hood light is not on during those hours as well. Too much strong light and you will have an algae problem. I just made a makeshift surround for two sides of my tank with a big piece of cardboard that I can put up when sunlight hits it in the warmer months. Doesn't look the greatest, but it serves the purpose. You can use pool filter sand to cap a soil layer, but some moderate amounts of fertilizer is good enough to provide the plants with enough nutrients. In a low light tank, the idea is that the plants grow slowly so that they do not require a lot of nutrients. In many cases, fish waste is enough to supply the plants, but I find that the added ferts are appreciated and give the plants that extra boost. Not sure how to handle your water issues. I know a lot of people use RO (reverse osmosis) water, but not sure if that would be feasible for you. With you only having to worry about a 10 gallon tank volume, would it be possible for you to get a couple of 5 gallon jugs or something and get the water elsewhere? Then you could always keep the jugs filled and on hand for the odd water change or top-up that you require.


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## Madfish (Sep 9, 2007)

Here is my little bit of info.
Subtrate: Pool filter sand, dont go with the aquarium gravel.
Lighting: what kind of bulb does your hood use? I think on most 10 gallon tanks that is fine for a low light set up. You should replace the bulb with a new one in a 6500K spectrum.
Ferts: You shouldnt need any because your plants will get what they need from your fish and exta food.
Plants: Anubias, Crypts, Java fern and Java moss will all do good under that lighting.
Extras: I would also look into like driftwood. You should put Anubias on driftwood because if you put it in the subtrate it will rot and die on you. Also moss looks really good on driftwood. 
This is just one persons thoughts for you.


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## MidnightSkies (Feb 3, 2009)

I guess maybe I'll go with sand if using something else isn't as important as I thought. I looked into eco-complete, but after hearing that it tends to raise PH and mine's already high, I was a little concerned. It was also a little pricey and has to be ordered online. If it's the difference between making and breaking a planted though, I'd use it.
My hood itself that I have isn't in TOO bad of shape, but the strip light that goes on it is pretty much junk. Underneath it's all white plastic and that has started to dry out and crack... Plus it has now been dropped twice so pieces of plastic are constantly falling off. I might as well just replace the whole hood.
Does anyone recommend a specific fertilizer and a certain amount? Or follow the bottles instructions? Considering there's a good chance I'm only going to have one betta in a 10 gallon tank, I don't think he will make enough waste to keep lots of plants happy. I'm just not sure how he would be with other fish at this point. I'd love to add a couple ottos if the little booger lets me.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

What's your budget? 
If it's low tech and you don't want to use fertilizer much, I'd recommend a single bag of black flourite sand. $25. That's not much for a small tank. 

It will cost you $7.50 for 50# of pool filter sand, which is far more than you need. No need to mess with topsoil or pay for shipping on the expensive ADA or GLA substrates for a noob on a budget.

A single 15w striplight is fine for lowtech 10g. The stock bulb might even be fine.

I'd try Cryptocoryne wendtii, which you get at many LFSes, Valisernia, mosses, and some runner-type sword plants.
Get 3x otto catfish at petsmart. they're like $2.


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## MidnightSkies (Feb 3, 2009)

I don't have a specified budget, but basically as little as possible. I'm unemployed for the most part, so even though I'm living with my parents, money is somewhat tight. I'll look into the black fluorite sand. I do have left over pool filter sand though, so I wouldn't need to buy any, and I do use it for other things. 
A fluorescent striplight (not incandescent) is what I'm assuming would work? 
I'm hoping my betta will get along with ottos as I would hate to have them be terrorized or killed even. I think I might see how he reacts to a couple ghost shrimp first.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

The betta will eat the ghost shrimp. There should be no problem with the ottos, especially if there are plants in the tank for them to hide amongst.

Yes, a single T8 florescent striplight works fine. Not incandescent.


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## Milq (Feb 11, 2010)

Just like compact fluorescents fit into your incandescent light fixtures in your ceiling, compact fluorescents will also fit into incandescent fixtures in tank hoods, if you're still interested in that option. They come in curly or straight and you can find them basically anywhere that sells lightbulbs (I've heard). (Try not to touch the bulb itself, and it will last longer.)

It doesn't fix the problem of cost, but if you want plant nutrients without raising the pH, fluorite substrate is the way to go, just check out the product description on any online store site that sells it. People all over the boards love this stuff, just have to look through threads for testimony.

I'm just starting out myself, but this is some of the knowledge I have collected while doing my research. It's what people have told me directly, and what I've read all over the board and on other sites. I hope this helps.


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## webgirl74 (Dec 2, 2009)

Milq said:


> It doesn't fix the problem of cost, but if you want plant nutrients without raising the pH, fluorite substrate is the way to go, just check out the product description on any online store site that sells it. People all over the boards love this stuff, just have to look through threads for testimony.


Flourite looks nice, but depending on the type and how much rinsing you do beforehand, it can cloud your tank up quite a bit. I use it myself, so wouldn't say not to use it...just be aware that can happen. Eco-complete (at least here) is comparable price-wise to flourite, so I would use that if you wanted a nutified substrate. You really don't need it though. If you are sticking with low light plants like anubias, java moss and java fern, they do not need to be in the sand anyways, so do completely fine without fertilizers or with some moderate dosing. I use Flourish for mine. A bottle is not too expensive and it lasts a long time on a small tank. A small bottle will probably last you more than 6 months on a 10 gallon tank.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The single strip flourescent hood is perfect for low tech 10gals. This is what I run over my own 10gal, and it did really well (till my tank started leaking- I just took the tank down last week, actually :icon_frow). 










If you put screw-in flourescent bulbs into an incandescent hood you'll probably have too much light, to the point where you also need to add CO2.

Personally, I'd go with plant substrate for this tank. If you do that and then stick with slow-growing plants, you may eliminate the need for ferts all together, which would then save some $$ (and be less maintenance). If you're on a tight budget, look for Seachem's Tidal Grey Coast (look in the saltwater section at your LFS). This substrate is identical to Onyx Sand, but cheaper- I can pick up a bag at Petsmart for less than $10, and one bag is all you'd need for a 10gal tank. You do need to rinse it well first, just like you would Flourite. I always rinse mine, and then let it dry before adding it to my tanks, and then I never have any cloudiness issues from substrate at all.

Sounds like you're aware of the possible issues Bettas have with tankmates. I've found that they're all very much "individuals," though, so your Betta may or may not play nice with others LOL If he won't share his tank with shrimp or Otos, you might try a few Nerite snails, instead.


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## MidnightSkies (Feb 3, 2009)

Wouldn't eco-complete raise my already high PH? That's one of the biggest things I'm not liking about it. Does Flourite Black and Flourite Black Sand get the water just as cloudy as regular Flourite? The more I look into it, the more I'm not liking pool filter sand. The gas pockets do make me nervous (although they'd be in any sand). Mostly though, I don't like the fact that it gets so discolored. I'm also leaning more toward plant soil because of the fact my bio load is going to be extremely light. Never heard of Seachem's Tidal Grey Coast, I'll have to do a little searching on it.

For lighting I'm leaning more towards an incandescent strip with compact fluorescents because of price and the color of the light. Even with a lower watt compact fluorescents it would probably be a bit too high of light? Everything is still kind of up in the air. I don't want this to be another failed planting attempt if I'm putting so much money into it.

I've been a betta enthusiast for years so I do know the problems of bettas all too well lol


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I've found that the Flourite blacks don't require quite as much rinsing as the regular, but they all still need to be rinsed, and rinsed well. I just take mine outside in a bucket filled 1/2 way with Flourite, and blast it with a garden hose till the water runs clear. Takes about 10-15min to wash a bag of Flourite this way, and then I never have problems with it.

Eco can raise and buffer pH some, though if you've already got hard, buffered water, the effect probably would be minimal.

I'm on very hard well water and have never had issues with it, even keeping soft water fish.

BTW- that is the Tidal Grey Coast in that 10gal I pictured below, I meant to mention that.


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## Milq (Feb 11, 2010)

If at some point you come to the conclusion that you can't decide which way to go with what products, you can mail me your tank, and _I'll_ put _my_ betta in it


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## MidnightSkies (Feb 3, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> I've found that the Flourite blacks don't require quite as much rinsing as the regular, but they all still need to be rinsed, and rinsed well. I just take mine outside in a bucket filled 1/2 way with Flourite, and blast it with a garden hose till the water runs clear. Takes about 10-15min to wash a bag of Flourite this way, and then I never have problems with it.
> 
> Eco can raise and buffer pH some, though if you've already got hard, buffered water, the effect probably would be minimal.
> 
> ...


Our water actually reads "very soft" on tests, but I have a TDS meter and there's around 370 TDS, which is high. PH also hovers right around 8 normally, and alkalinity is also maxed out on tests. It's been a little confusing. I think I might stay away from eco though, just to be safe. 

I haven't had any luck doing a search on Tidal Grey Coast on here. I'm guessing it's not very commonly used? Does it also require a real thorough rinsing, and does it cloud water? I'm kind of liking this idea, as long as I can find it at Petsmart. It didn't show up on their website, but I'm hoping they have it in the store.


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## Milq (Feb 11, 2010)

MidnightSkies said:


> I haven't had any luck doing a search on Tidal Grey Coast on here. I'm guessing it's not very commonly used? Does it also require a real thorough rinsing, and does it cloud water? I'm kind of liking this idea, *as long as I can find it at Petsmart*. It didn't show up on their website, but I'm hoping they have it in the store.


In my experience, Petsmart stores have a limited selection of items you generally aren't looking for and it is unlikely that they will have what you need. If you're looking for a specific product, I highly recommend calling them and asking if they have it in stock. This way, you get a direct answer from someone who has to actually pay attention to what you are saying. It prevents trips to the store where you come out with nothing, or regretfully settling for a product that is wrong for you and money is wasted.

However, maybe the Petsmart in your area is reliable, and you don't need to take such a cynical (but realistic) approach to dealing with them.

Best of luck to you!


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## webgirl74 (Dec 2, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> The single strip flourescent hood is perfect for low tech 10gals. This is what I run over my own 10gal, and it did really well (till my tank started leaking- I just took the tank down last week, actually :icon_frow).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to go off track a bit here, but LauraLee were you dosing at all with ferts in that tank or using CO2? It's a great looking tank!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No, I don't dose ferts or use CO2 on any of my tanks- I'm all about doing as little maintenance as possible. :hihi:

Here's the Seachem substrate I'm talking about- it's usually marketed as a saltwater substrate but it's great for FW planted tanks as well: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/GrayCoast.html Yes, it does need to be rinsed. I can't remember if it was more or less dusty, but IME most plant substrates need rinsing (Eco and ADA being the exceptions).

I just did a big search and I can't find it online at any of the places I usually order from, so IDK, maybe it's not as commonly available any more? Like I said, I picked up my bag at my local Petsmart a year or two ago, but I don't see it online there, either. 

If you've got $20 to spend on a bag of substrate, and need other supplies as well, you might want to take advantage of the $8.99 flat rate shipping that DrF&S is running and order all your supplies in one place: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.c...rium-plants-care/ps/c/3578/3746?count=27&s=ts


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