# What causes diatoms



## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

So ive been battling this for more than a year now in my tanks. I would like to know what causes it because it is starting to become a hassle to clean in my tanks without otos, can someone please help?


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

fishkeeper01 said:


> So ive been battling this for more than a year now in my tanks. I would like to know what causes it because it is starting to become a hassle to clean in my tanks without otos, can someone please help?


Honestly i don't know the specific reason. However, i have sucessfully triggered it by serious disturbance of substrate, one time mild disturbance, new tank. The only treatment that worked for me was a 3 day blackout. Plants went in brown, plants came out green. literally. I tried the 1-2 punch at 25% strength, but it didn't do anything. People reported success with it a full power though. Still, chemical warfare should be avoided if possible.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Diatioms are usually caused by one or more things, but its a short list. New tank syndrome, but you said a year, not enough light which they thrive on, not enough current or oxygen, silica sand, nutrient buildup, but if you have plants I doubt that the case too. Phosphates can cause it as well. I'd start with a thorough water test barrage first, and test the water right of the tap. Just a matter of crossing off the list via elmination.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

what am i specifically test for?


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

everything, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates, and silica. Most test kits dont have the phosphate or silica tests but saltwater shops can test those 2 for you for free.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

What is a saltwater shop?


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

fishkeeper01 said:


> What is a saltwater shop?


A fish store that specializes in saltwater aquariums. 

Diatoms are silicate feeders, so they will bloom if you have high silicates in your water or substrate (like pool filter sand). If you are getting them a year later, I'd suspect that you might have high amounts of silica in your tap water.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

so what can i do to kill them off or keep them under control? I have read about phosgaurd and stuff like it, but im just so frusstrated with diatoms and i really dont know what to do?


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Well what's your water change schedule, and how much? Is this a tank for plants or fish only of both? Best way of knowing what to do is the water tests. If it isn't the water, then you can narrow down the causes some more. To me a tank a year old is still in its infancy. Diatoms are a common issue, its no it harmfull, unsightly yes, but not a hard battle to win. Just have to find its cause. Can you give us more info on your tank setup? I have a feeling its going to be water related personally.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok weekly water change 25%. Tanks are a 10g planted tank and 45g african cichlid tank, water ph is 7.0-7.5. And how would i test the phosphate/silicon levels? WOuld my lfs be ok to test it at?Petco?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Buy 2 otto cats, end of story for the 10 Gallon. 
Rubber lip pleco should be fine in the 45 gal.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Might be your source water if it is long term. Check into getting RODI water and using
phos guard in your filter for now. Some have been surprised how big thier tap silicate and phos levels are compared to normal recommend aquarium levels.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well an RO unit is a little expensive for me, (seeing as how im only in high school) and is there a way to test my water, because i would like to know how to battle it other than by just buying some plecs, or otos.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Saltwater fish shops can check for phosphate, and silica. Usually for free too. I'd find a good one, and bring a sample of both tap, and tank water.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well here in hawaii i've never heard of saltwater shops. Would my lfs store work?


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Hawaii, and no saltwater shops? Shops that sell marine fish, and corals  They may, it varys per shop what they test, and if they do tests for customers. I'd call around, and ask.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

one of my discus tanks would get this.. it was usually cuz i was lacking in my daily water changes.. 
didn't keep light on as much, when i was not home.. got my wc back on track.. it went away..


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

We really need a thread about how to deal with this algae. Someone should test doing daily water changes and then have the same person try minimal water changes and see what happens. Too many times have i heard "Water changes introduce more silicate and diatoms don't go away" and also "Water changes solved my diatom issue eventually". Or perhaps both work or don't work and time was all that mattered.


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## AUAV8R (Jul 7, 2010)

I recently had an outbreak in an established tank and was baffled. I finally figured out what I had changed a few months ago. I had been having trouble with my nerites shells eroding and I heard that you can put half of a cuttlefish bone in your tank to help with that. I did and it helped so a couple of moths ago I put an entire bone inside my canister filter. I took it out a couple of weeks ago and the diatoms are no longer spreading and my tank seems to be doing much better.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

puopg said:


> We really need a thread about how to deal with this algae. Someone should test doing daily water changes and then have the same person try minimal water changes and see what happens. Too many times have i heard "Water changes introduce more silicate and diatoms don't go away" and also "Water changes solved my diatom issue eventually". Or perhaps both work or don't work and time was all that mattered.


Well not everyone has silica in their water. So reasons vary from place to place, but also silica can leach off just simple sand substrates of so many variety's we all use. 

Diatoms have been around at least since the dinosaur days, it's well documented. I'd encourage people just to simply google/yahoo search it. Information is everywhere


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## chibikaie (Aug 2, 2012)

puopg said:


> We really need a thread about how to deal with this algae. Someone should test doing daily water changes and then have the same person try minimal water changes and see what happens. Too many times have i heard "Water changes introduce more silicate and diatoms don't go away" and also "Water changes solved my diatom issue eventually". Or perhaps both work or don't work and time was all that mattered.


The reason for the disparity is simple: those whose source water lacks the necessary nutrients for diatoms have great success with water changes. If there are silicates in your tap, you have the opposite result. You may see a benefit from a cleaning, but they will come right back. I am quite used to this. Soft, acidic water with very low TDS out of the tap? They think I don't know how to do a water change. They probably think the same of you. It makes me want to quit the hobby, to be honest.

I will try calling around for silicate tests - my two local lfs carry more saltwater stock anyway. It's likely that other nutrients are also in play, but I'd like to get the most obvious one quantified.


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## chibikaie (Aug 2, 2012)

Ah, Cryptic beat me. I am too long-winded. Thank you for proving that I am not crazy.


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## zzrguy (Jul 11, 2012)

My 29gal had it bad for while I try every thing.
1. Are you dosing NPK? If so stop dosing phosphate. This slow down its spread for me.
2. Are you running a air stone or CO2?. If not run a air stone. This also slow it down. 
3. Have you cleaned your filter lately?. I cleaned mine and it killed off most of it and I thought that was the end but it came back slowly.
4. Have you tried phos-zorb? This is what cleared most of it up, and to finish it off I added 8 Ottos and 3Amano shrimp(these guys are a must have for clearing crew) I'm now up to 7 or 8 Amano.

And now I'm diatom free 6 months.


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

I thought doing macro (phosphates) decreased diatoms? Or was it bga? All of a sudden Ive had an out break of diatoms and bga. Diatoms get on everything and then the bga covers it. oto and snails are useless, they dont do much and its not really a solution. Im running this setup for 2 years, Ive always had diatoms but it was minimal. 

EI dosing, pressurized co2, 8 hour light period...


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## thebuddha (Jul 16, 2012)

i had diatoms breaking out in my 29 gallon starting about two months ago, i scrubbed them off every week, and they would return with a little extra oomph every week. i dropped my light 4 inches, threw in my koralia, and saw some improvement. there was still some left so i finally bought 4 juvenile otos. that was about a week ago, and the tank looks great now


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Silicates and silica are not the same thing. If water could leach silica from sand, there would be no sand in our rivers. Over thousands of years it would all be dissolved into the water and the oceans would be loaded with silica, which they aren't. Silicates are a compound containing silica, and some silicates are water soluble. But, ordinary silica sand, pool filter sand, etc. do not leach silica or silicates into the water.

A few years ago I read through a large number of water quality reports from around the USA and was surprised to find that a large number of those reports showed measurable amounts of silicates in the water. The percentage of reports showing that convinced me that the average public water supply can be assumed to contain silicates. So, every water change introduces more silicates. It isn't likely that our tanks would ever be without silicates in the water, to some degree. But, few of us experience brown diatom "algae" attacks beyond the first few months, if then. So, I don't believe that is caused by silicates, but I also have no idea what does cause it or why it usually disappears.


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## fishkeeper01 (Oct 2, 2012)

well the only reason why i posted this topic here was because i was tired of having to search through all the websites and figured someone had luck fighting this thing using something other than otos or plecs.


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## chibikaie (Aug 2, 2012)

I see a lot of "success" stories mention algae eaters of some kind. I put in pond snails (they do a good job in my other tanks), but it seems that they were eaten.


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## jhays79 (Mar 28, 2012)

Not thread hi-jack, but will rubber lipped Plecos eat diatoms off plant leaves or just glass?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Let's look at this another way: why don't my tanks have a bad case of diatoms then?

Please, do tell.

Magic?

Lack of silicates is not a possible answer, they are present in non limiting amounts. Even the clear waters of Lake Tahoe, plenty. This claim that we are limiting diatoms is non starter,speculation and even worse myth based logic.

The myth has been around a long long time.

In marine systems, PO4, not Silicates, is the primary cause from everything I've seen. This does NOT apply to FW, again, my tanks would be covered if either of these claims were actually true, which frankly, they are not. The principle of falsification, not correlation and speculation without any control is the guiding factor here.

Since my own tanks have non limiting silicates and PO4, why don't I have algae issues? The are 101 ways to mess a tank up and have poor plant growth, which leads to algae. If you have nice plant growth and no algae issues, then that tank is a control in the test and you KNOW that silicates or PO4(or many other things) cannot possibly be the case.

Note, the falsification does NOT imply what actually is causing the algae in the OP's tank, only what it cannot be.

You make a hypothesis and then try and prove it wrong.
If so, then you chose a NEW hypothesis as to why the algae bloom. 
You can go back and test and see if adding X to the system will induce algae, I think I am one of the very very few people that has done this.
But it allows me far more knowledge than accepting an old very tired myth.

Think about it.
If someone has a nice tank and adds these things, but does NOT have diatom issues at all, then is it the silicates?

Use your common sense.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

jhays79 said:


> Not thread hi-jack, but will rubber lipped Plecos eat diatoms off plant leaves or just glass?


Gold nuggets actually do a better job.
Pitbull plecos are awesome cleaners also, Otto cats, Sturisoma, farrowela etc.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Hoppy said:


> Silicates and silica are not the same thing. If water could leach silica from sand, there would be no sand in our rivers. Over thousands of years it would all be dissolved into the water and the oceans would be loaded with silica, which they aren't. Silicates are a compound containing silica, and some silicates are water soluble. But, ordinary silica sand, pool filter sand, etc. do not leach silica or silicates into the water.
> 
> A few years ago I read through a large number of water quality reports from around the USA and was surprised to find that a large number of those reports showed measurable amounts of silicates in the water. The percentage of reports showing that convinced me that the average public water supply can be assumed to contain silicates. So, every water change introduces more silicates. It isn't likely that our tanks would ever be without silicates in the water, to some degree. But, few of us experience brown diatom "algae" attacks beyond the first few months, if then. So, I don't believe that is caused by silicates, but I also have no idea what does cause it or why it usually disappears.


Silica, and silicates are directly related. I'm not going to write up this huge post, just going to point you to some reading.

SILICA
The dioxide form of silicon, SiO 2 , occurring especially as quartz sand, flint, and agate: used usually in the form of its prepared white powder chiefly in the manufacture of glass, water glass, ceramics, and abrasives. 
Also called silicon dioxide. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica

SILICATE 
1. Mineralogy . any of the largest group of mineral compounds, as quartz, beryl, garnet, feldspar, mica, and various kinds of clay, consisting of SiO 2 or SiO 4 groupings and one or more metallic ions, with some forms containing hydrogen. Silicates constitute well over 90 percent of the rock-forming minerals of the earth's crust. 

2. Chemistry . any salt derived from the silicic acids or from silica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicates
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Silicate

DIATOM
Which is mostly made of silica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatoms
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Diatom

Since all forms of sand we use in our tanks contains silica/silicates however you want to get into the chemistry of both, though both are directly related gets into our tanks, is in our tanks. I find higher percentage of quartz sand increase's diatom growth in tanks as i use mostly pool filter sand with all my cichlid tanks, and very common in the fish hobby for pool filter sand to start diatom blooms which you control with time, and water changes. Now since the minerals do leach, and silica/silicate sands we use in our tanks are mostly mineral based it is fair to say scientifically there is leaching that takes place, and remember silicates are a form of oxide in most every aspect. 

This is why most reputable salt water shops test for silicates in tank water as it exists, its there, and does pose diatom problems among other things, as well as being available in test kits commonly found at shops, and online supply vendors.


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

plantbrain said:


> Let's look at this another way: why don't my tanks have a bad case of diatoms then?
> 
> Please, do tell.
> 
> ...


I understand you were merely trying to provide evidence that silicates alone are not the cause of diatoms. Obviously, most problems encountered in aquarium keeping are primarily correlative. Falsification only eliminates a singular cause when it exists in excess in a control. Falsification does not however nullify the component's causative factor in the presence of various situations. Therefore, silicates could very well have an exponential effect to the formation of diatoms in the presence of other factors such as poor lighting, NH4, NO2- etc. correct? If that's the case it still cannot be said that the contributing factors are the cause. In the absense of silicates the same conditions may not produce diatoms at all. So why does your tank not have diatoms with excess silicates? Because your tanks do not have all the pieces to the puzzle which causes diatoms.


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## jhays79 (Mar 28, 2012)

Can sunlight on a tank a few hours a day cause diatoms?


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

jhays79 said:


> Can sunlight on a tank a few hours a day cause diatoms?


Yup. Sun ight and even strong indirect sun light might cause diatoms.


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