# BBA in shrimp tank



## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

I've had a BBA outbreak in my 4 gallon nano tank for awhile now. Recently realized I was probably dosing too much macros (even though I was never really getting higher than 10 ppm nitrates in the tank) b/c I've got low light, slow growth plants in there (anubias and buce). I was also running my lights for 6+ hours. I've now switched to a 3 on, 4 off, 3 on schedule for the lights.

But, I've still got a whole lot of BBA in the tank that I'd like to get rid of. Removing affected leaves isn't really an option as it would mean removing all the leaves from buce/anubias rhizomes. 

I don't want to try a whole tank H2O2 treatment b/c of the shrimp. I've had luck with some plants with spot treating leaves with H2O2, but is this shrimp safe?

Any other options for getting rid of the existing algae that won't harm the shrimp?

Edit: just tested nitrate and it's reading ~0 ppm in the tank? I know the test kit is good b/c I also tested my 10 gallon and got ~10 ppm.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

aubie98 said:


> Recently realized I was probably dosing too much macros (even though I was never really getting higher than 10 ppm nitrates in the tank) b/c I've got low light, slow growth plants in there (anubias and buce). I


What led you to believe you were dosing too much?


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Highseq said:


> What led you to believe you were dosing too much?


Primarily the algae outbreak. I know it's a little contrary to the fact that I wasn't seeing high nitrates when testing, and maybe I'm totally off base with that assumption.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

how much and what are you currently dosing?


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## myessail (Sep 12, 2017)

You could try either dosing your tank with liquid carbon or painting it on your plants.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Highseq said:


> how much and what are you currently dosing?


PPS-Pro, was dosing .5 ml macros and 1 drop micros. .5 ml excel too (was dosing higher volumes of excel 1 to 1.5 ml prior to putting in shrimp).

This was all when I was running my planted + cliplight 8 hours; I dropped down to 6 hours when I thought it could be a lighting issue. I've since adopted a 3 hr on, 4 hr off, 3 hr on schedule.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

aubie98 said:


> PPS-Pro, was dosing .5 ml macros and 1 drop micros. .5 ml excel too (was dosing higher volumes of excel 1 to 1.5 ml prior to putting in shrimp).
> 
> This was all when I was running my planted + cliplight 8 hours; I dropped down to 6 hours when I thought it could be a lighting issue. I've since adopted a 3 hr on, 4 hr off, 3 hr on schedule.


Ok so with that dose, each day you are adding 1.3ppm of nitrate. Is there a reason for your micros your adding only a drop? PPS-pro you should be adding .4ml

Is this a shrimp only tank? How new is the tank? Do you happen to know what your GH is? Also how often and what % are your water changes?

When you say you have a lot of BBA, how bad are we talking?


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Highseq said:


> Ok so with that dose, each day you are adding 1.3ppm of nitrate.
> 
> Is this a shrimp only tank? How new is the tank? Do you happen to know what your GH is? Also how often and what % are your water changes?
> 
> When you say you have a lot of BBA, how bad are we talking?


shrimp/snail only. Tank has been set up since June 21st. GH is ~8-9 right now (trying to get it down to ~6-7). I do weekly water changes, usually around ~30%.

Here's a close up picture of a leaf to show how bad it is on the anubias. I'll take another shot of the crypt lucens later and post it.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

aubie98 said:


> shrimp/snail only. Tank has been set up since June 21st. GH is ~8-9 right now (trying to get it down to ~6-7). I do weekly water changes, usually around ~30%.
> 
> Here's a close up picture of a leaf to show how bad it is on the anubias. I'll take another shot of the crypt lucens later and post it.


That is peculiar your nitrate level is 0... your adding 9ppm per week and have only slow growing plants. Are you using any kind of chemical filtration like purigen chemipure or activated carbon? Do any plants show signs of nutrient deficiency other than the algae infestation?


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Highseq said:


> That is peculiar your nitrate level is 0... your adding 9ppm per week and have only slow growing plants. Are you using any kind of chemical filtration like purigen chemipure or activated carbon? Do any plants show signs of nutrient deficiency other than the algae infestation?


i use purigen to remove tannins from piece of grapewood that's apparently an infinite source of them (been leaching since the tank was set up).

But I thought purigen only removed nitrogenous waste that would break down into nitrates, and not nitrates themselves?


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

aubie98 said:


> i use purigen to remove tannins from piece of grapewood that's apparently an infinite source of them (been leaching since the tank was set up).
> 
> But I thought purigen only removed nitrogenous waste that would break down into nitrates, and not nitrates themselves?


No you are right, I was more wondering if you were using carbon. So do any leaves show signs of a nutrient deficiency?

Since you only have slow growing plants I would scale the pps pro macros down to half of recommended. So do about .3ml macros. Dose the same for your micros. Having them out of balance with each other can be a problem. Also since you aren't dosing iron seperate the CSM is the only source.

This still doesn't explain why your nitrates are 0 after a week of dosing though. Is the tank pretty full of plants? I suppose it could be possible the plants are using all of it... I just find it unlikely.

You are following these guidelines when you make your solutions right?

PPS-PRO dosing Method-

MACRO Bottle

Amount:	Fertilizer
32.5g	KNO3
29.5g	K2SO4
3g KH2PO4
20.5g	MGSO4


MICRO Bottle

Amount:	Fertilizer
40g	CSM+B


Next fill the dosing bottles to the 500ml line with RO or DI water.

Dosing instructions-

Dose both the Micros and the Macros at a rate of 1ml per 10gallons seven days a week.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Highseq said:


> No you are right, I was more wondering if you were using carbon. So do any leaves show signs of a nutrient deficiency?
> 
> Since you only have slow growing plants I would scale the pps pro macros down to half of recommended. So do about .3ml macros. Dose the same for your micros. Having them out of balance with each other can be a problem. Also since you aren't dosing iron seperate the CSM is the only source.
> 
> ...


I guess the crypt lucens looks a little more yellow around the edges compared to the lucens in my 10 gallon. The tank is pretty heavily planted with buce, anubias, and the crypt lucens.

I'm within a couple of decimal places for all the macros when making the solution, but I followed the instructions on the GLA website that called for 28.6 grams of CSM+B. 

I dose 1 ml/10 gallons for the macros, but only 0.1 ml/10 gallons for the micros (as per the GLA instructions).


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

aubie98 said:


> I guess the crypt lucens looks a little more yellow around the edges compared to the lucens in my 10 gallon. The tank is pretty heavily planted with buce, anubias, and the crypt lucens.
> 
> I'm within a couple of decimal places for all the macros when making the solution, but I followed the instructions on the GLA website that called for 28.6 grams of CSM+B.
> 
> I dose 1 ml/10 gallons for the macros, but only 0.1 ml/10 gallons for the micros (as per the GLA instructions).


Oh okay that makes sense now. Disregard what I previously said about the micros then.

Well we know we don't have an excess of light. I'm still kind of perplexed why your tank wested 0 for nitrates. Maybe we can figure it out though. This week you should try testing your nitrates every day a few hours after dosing. See if you ever get a reading higher than 0. If you never see it go up you may want to actually increase how much you are dosing of the macros. Do you have a phosphate test kit? That could also be helpful. If your phosphate levels are in a normal range and we just need to increase nitrate dosing you can make a new macro solution with increased KNO3. Using the Rotala butterfly fert calc this would be really simple to do.

I really want to figure out whats causing the algae, but as to your original question about how to get rid of it... I'm not sure how sensitive the shrimp are that you keep. I have amanos and have spot dosed H202 with no issue, but that was in a 55gal so it diluted out pretty quick. Since it is kind of a small tank maybe you could just remove the plants and do a H202 dip, rinse them well and put them back in? If we don't fix cause though its going to come right back.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

What are your TDS levels? If your only have the slow growers in there you need very clean water 'organics-wise'. I very much doubt it's the ferts that are causing your algae issues.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

Good point. Could be 3 months of snail/shrimp waste accumulating in the substrate contributing to increased organics. If your using tap water for your tank your TDS may already read on the higher side since your GH is ~9.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Highseq said:


> Oh okay that makes sense now. Disregard what I previously said about the micros then.
> 
> Well we know we don't have an excess of light. I'm still kind of perplexed why your tank wested 0 for nitrates. Maybe we can figure it out though. This week you should try testing your nitrates every day a few hours after dosing. See if you ever get a reading higher than 0. If you never see it go up you may want to actually increase how much you are dosing of the macros. Do you have a phosphate test kit? That could also be helpful. If your phosphate levels are in a normal range and we just need to increase nitrate dosing you can make a new macro solution with increased KNO3. Using the Rotala butterfly fert calc this would be really simple to do.
> 
> I really want to figure out whats causing the algae, but as to your original question about how to get rid of it... I'm not sure how sensitive the shrimp are that you keep. I have amanos and have spot dosed H202 with no issue, but that was in a 55gal so it diluted out pretty quick. Since it is kind of a small tank maybe you could just remove the plants and do a H202 dip, rinse them well and put them back in? If we don't fix cause though its going to come right back.


Don't have a phosphate kit, but was going to go to the LFS tomorrow, so I'll pick one up. Will commence the daily testing tomorrow after cleaning tank and doing water change.

I could uproot the c. lucens and do a dip, but I would fear that'd cause a melt. The buce and anubias are anchored pretty firmly to the grapewood, so removal and treatment isn't an option.

I also want to address the root cause of the outbreak. Hopefully it is a nutrient imbalance I can fix with a change to the fertilization schedule. 

Since I'm already dosing Excel in the tank, I'm guessing spot treatment with excel would be an option? Maybe not as fast as h2o2, but probably more shrimp-safe?

By the way: thanks for the help!


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

aubie98 said:


> Don't have a phosphate kit, but was going to go to the LFS tomorrow, so I'll pick one up. Will commence the daily testing tomorrow after cleaning tank and doing water change.
> 
> I could uproot the c. lucens and do a dip, but I would fear that'd cause a melt. The buce and anubias are anchored pretty firmly to the grapewood, so removal and treatment isn't an option.
> 
> ...



I have had good luck spot dosing with either. I'm not sure if glutaraldehyde is safer than hydrogen peroxide, I have heard arguments going both ways on that. They both have pretty short half lives though so as long as you don't overdo it you should be fine.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> What are your TDS levels? If your only have the slow growers in there you need very clean water 'organics-wise'. I very much doubt it's the ferts that are causing your algae issues.


Using remineralized RO water with a TDS ~160 for water changes. One week after water change (i.e., right now) TDS = 240


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

I'm not as familiar with TDS but that seems relatively normal right? The extra TDS could be explained in part (or maybe mostly?) by addition of ferts and fauna waste throughout the week.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

aubie98 said:


> Using remineralized RO water with a TDS ~160 for water changes. One week after water change (i.e., right now) TDS = 240


Yeah, 240 doesn't sound too bad, but you have to understand something. There is a big difference between nitrate that is in your water from decay from dead/dying plant leaves, lifestock etc and the inorganic salts that you dose. You should read this article. I am a firm believer in their take on how algae gets started and how it continues in an aquarium.

Nitrate (NO3) and phosphate (PO4) don?t cause algae. Ammonia does!! - Aquarium-fertilizer.com


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> There is a big difference between nitrate that is in your water from decay from dead/dying plant leaves, lifestock etc and the inorganic salts that you dose. You should read this article. I am a firm believer in their take on how algae gets started and how it continues in an aquarium.
> 
> Nitrate (NO3) and phosphate (PO4) don?t cause algae. Ammonia does!! - Aquarium-fertilizer.com


I totally agree. I was just trying to account for where the extra TDS was coming from. And also maybe point out that TDS measurements are limited in that they don't tell us exactly whats cause the high measurement.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> Yeah, 240 doesn't sound too bad, but you have to understand something. There is a big difference between nitrate that is in your water from decay from dead/dying plant leaves, lifestock etc and the inorganic salts that you dose. You should read this article. I am a firm believer in their take on how algae gets started and how it continues in an aquarium.
> 
> Nitrate (NO3) and phosphate (PO4) don?t cause algae. Ammonia does!! - Aquarium-fertilizer.com


So, keep dosing PPS and do a once over in the tank to remove decaying/dead plant material to remove as much ammonia from the water? My ammonia on this tank has consistently been 0 though.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

aubie98 said:


> So, keep dosing PPS and do a once over in the tank to remove decaying/dead plant material to remove as much ammonia from the water? My ammonia on this tank has consistently been 0 though.


Yes and keep up with water changes on a regular basis. Algae spores don't give a hoot about what your test kit says. :surprise: 

Removing decaying/dead plant matter is very important. Most common places for BBA to grow is on wood, rock and slow-growing plants where there's a high accumulation of organic matter. co2 is always best since it accelerates the growth of the plants and increases uptake of organics. 

Test kits were really designed to keep fish safe not necessarily for plants or algae free tanks.


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