# German blue ram numbers and tank mates



## orchidman

I'm getting a 29 gallon tank for some German blue rams. How many pairs could I keep in a 29 gallon? 

I'm also wondering ahoy some tankmates. I have some really tiny sae in my ten gallon right now. I was planning on putting them in the 29 gallon once it's set up and gt some Otos for the ten gallon. But I just read recently thy sae MIT not even fit full grown in a 29 gallon. 
You can call me Bob


----------



## orchidman

Also, some small tankmates that could also go in. But I don't want eggs to be eaten, but idk if I'll even get them to breed. 


You can call me Bob


----------



## KShoes

If you're looking to maximize the number of pairs, I'd limit the number of bottom dwellers. My german rams chewed apart my cories. Maybe some hatchets for top, rummynose for mid, rams and maybe a pleco because plecos are cool! I have a betta as my centerpiece fish.


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'd stick with one pair with a tank that small. I wouldn't try 2 pair in less than a 4' tank, personally.

Any small peaceful schooling community fish would be fine with them. Small tetras, rasporas, etc.


----------



## orchidman

okay, one pair is good. any plecos that are small enough?


----------



## tuffgong

Bristle nose plecos would go well in that tank. I have an albino bristle nose pleco from a local breeder who has great stock. PM me if you want his info.


----------



## robxc80

in my 60, i have two breeding pairs of German Blues, one 5th wheel female German Blue, and a trio of Electric Blue Rams.

The two pairs control opposite ends of the tank and constantly display to eachother in the middle. The 5th wheel female minds her own business and is given free passage. The trio of Electric Blue Rams are left alone and completely ignored almost as if they were a separate species. 

Long story short, i have 8 rams in a 60 gallon. i think a trio would be the limit for you. As for tankmates, i keep them with Cardinals, espei's, oto's, red phantoms, and black phantoms.


----------



## orchidman

I think I'll stick with 2. I'll feel better about it. 


You can call me Bob


----------



## AdamP.

*tankmates for rams*

Ottos are good tank mates for rams. I would stay away from all types of plecos if you are trying to spawn the rams. Plecos will eat the eggs, especially at night when the rams cant see too good. I also recommend a night light of some sort so the rams can see enough to defend their eggs/babies during the night.


----------



## Pookie Bear

You could probably keep three GBR in your tank but just make sure its heavily planted. I kept my GBRs with tetras, Ottos and chili rasboras and i never had a problem with them eating the eggs or with my GBR bothering any of the other fish.


----------



## orchidman

how are sae with eggs?

what would happen to the third ram if two paired up? what are the cahnces of buying a male and female from the LFS ( not sold as a breeding pair) and having them pair up?


----------



## AdamP.

pretty sure the sae will eat the eggs. the third ram will get tag team attacked by the pair, especially during spawning. I just got a new female that my male accepted. they are already bullying the lone female. so i am giving her to my friend.


----------



## orchidman

Thanks. Could I just take the saw our when it looks like they are going to breed?


You can call me Bob


----------



## robxc80

you could. but do you need the sae? stay on top of your maintenance and be diligent with your fertz/co2 and you shouldn't see a need for an sae. 

i use oto's, nerites, amano shrimp, and mollies for my algae crew since i dont want an ugly gray fish that gets to 6 inches in my tank.


----------



## orchidman

First of all, I already have it. It is small right now. But will eventually need to be in a bigger tank. 

Second of all, it's an albino, so it's a nice golden color and I kind if like it. 

I don't use co2. It will be a low tech tank anyways.

I'd get Otos but what would happen the sae? I guess I could take it back. 


You can call me Bob


----------



## robxc80

if you like it you like it. i didn't know you already had it. didnt mean any offense bro.


----------



## catwat

orchidman said:


> Second of all, it's an albino, so it's a nice golden color and I kind if like it.
> 
> I don't use co2. It will be a low tech tank anyways.
> 
> I'd get Otos but what would happen the sae? I guess I could take it back.
> 
> 
> You can call me Bob



Are you sure it is an SAE? I've never heard of an albino/golden SAE. There is an albino Chinese algae eater that is golden in color and looks similar to a SAE. If it is an albino SAE, that is awesome. From what I understand, Chinese algae eaters don't eat algae to well or at all. 

As for putting it in you 29, I would suggest not putting it in as it will be very hard to catch (depending on how much plants, driftwood, etc you have). I know from experience because when I had a pair of Kribensis breed in my planted tank, the SAEs would try to eat the eggs and bother the parents a lot. I tried to scoop them out, but it took a lot of patience and time. They would hide in every space imaginable. Just sharing my experience to help you make a decision. I hope this helps.


----------



## orchidman

robxc80 said:


> if you like it you like it. i didn't know you already had it. didnt mean any offense bro.


It's alright man. I didn't mean the reply to be as big of a reaction. 


You can call me Bob


----------



## orchidman

catwat said:


> Are you sure it is an SAE? I've never heard of an albino/golden SAE. There is an albino Chinese algae eater that is golden in color and looks similar to a SAE. If it is an albino SAE, that is awesome. From what I understand, Chinese algae eaters don't eat algae to well or at all.
> 
> As for putting it in you 29, I would suggest not putting it in as it will be very hard to catch (depending on how much plants, driftwood, etc you have). I know from experience because when I had a pair of Kribensis breed in my planted tank, the SAEs would try to eat the eggs and bother the parents a lot. I tried to scoop them out, but it took a lot of patience and time. They would hide in every space imaginable. Just sharing my experience to help you make a decision. I hope this helps.


It appears that I've made a huge mistake! They are Chinese algae eaters. They were sold as Chinese algae eaters and albino Chinese algae eaters. Never having heard of Chinese algae eaters, I just though they were mislabeled. :/ 

What now? I have them in my ten gallon for the algae. I've had them for about a week and they have eaten some algae. But now that much


You can call me Bob


----------



## lauraleellbp

Get rid of them ASAP is my own advice.

CAE just are not appropriate for hobbyist fish tanks. They get huge, stop eating algae, and most get aggressive after they exceed about 4" in size. They can grow to about 12".


----------



## reignOfFred

Just thought I'd chirp in since I've kept dwarf cichlids and other cichlids for a long time.

Rams are excellent and can be kept with almost any community fish that is not too small. I've had them with cory cats, oto cats, kuhli loaches, flag fish, a number of different open water schoolers, and even amano shrimp. As long as the other fish are not a territorial type it works just fine. Of course, having lots of bottom dwellers will interfere with breeding, but I don't care - I'm a hobbiest and not a breeder - as long as I get the mating colour and behaviour I don't even want to deal with the breeding aspect. 

I really would not go with more then a pair in a 29 gallon, that way they actually have space to explore and use and aren't stuck defending half the tank against another pair.

Salute


----------



## catwat

lauraleellbp said:


> Get rid of them ASAP is my own advice.
> 
> CAE just are not appropriate for hobbyist fish tanks. They get huge, stop eating algae, and most get aggressive after they exceed about 4" in size. They can grow to about 12".



I agree. Chinese algae eaters do get to be nearly a foot and are really aggressive toward any fish in your tank-they are territorial as adults. They will not do much in the way of eating algae either even when they are young. I suggest returning them/giving them back to the store. Definitely, do not put them in your 29 when you set it up as they will cause more harm and frustration than good.


----------



## orchidman

Ahh!! I will get rid of them asap!!! Idk how to get rid of them though :/


You can call me Bob


----------



## catwat

orchidman said:


> Ahh!! I will get rid of them asap!!! Idk how to get rid of them though :/
> 
> 
> You can call me Bob



Will the pet store take them? I know the LFS here in Hawaii takes any unwanted fish.


----------



## orchidman

idk. i could try calling them.


----------



## Shidohari

I have one single Male german blue ram in my 20 gallon tall tank, with 2 cory cats, 2 algae eating shrimp, 4 cherry shrimp, and 2 blueberry shrimp.

I will probably be adding a school of either Cherry barbs (B/C compatible) or Harlequin rasboras first. 

The only touchy bit is the temperture. My ram will actually be swimming in 75 degree F water due to the lower temps required by the rasboras (A/B compatible). 

Is the temperture going to be a problem, also should i get a second ram for my tank?


----------



## IDR

Your Rasboras (and most of your other fish) are actually going to have an easier time in warmer water than your Ram (notoriously fickle fish) will in cooler water. If I were you, I'd raise the tank temp to 78-80 and see if your Rams are able to handle it.

How long has the Ram been in the tank, and how long has the water been at 75?

You could get a second Ram in a 29, but no more than two. They're quite territorial, and with one already in the tank, there's no telling how he will react to the second if/when you add it, as they weren't added together.


----------



## Shidohari

IDR said:


> Your Rasboras (and most of your other fish) are actually going to have an easier time in warmer water than your Ram (notoriously fickle fish) will in cooler water. If I were you, I'd raise the tank temp to 78-80 and see if your Rams are able to handle it.
> 
> How long has the Ram been in the tank, and how long has the water been at 75?
> 
> You could get a second Ram in a 29, but no more than two. They're quite territorial, and with one already in the tank, there's no telling how he will react to the second if/when you add it, as they weren't added together.


I just got my ram on Sunday or Monday. I couldn't afford to buy a school of either of the two fish when i went in, so i invested in the single fish that will be in my 20 gallon Tall tank..

I will raise my temperture in my tank slightly, i just have to watch it due to my shrimp.

I was thinking about getting the rasbora's first as they're the more peaceful fish for my first school, then waiting two to three weeks to get my additional school if i decide to do so.

Plants are two pieces of driftwood, a small piece with narrowleaf java fern, and a medium piece with a recently planted anubias nana plant. I have one banana plant in the front center of the tank and one clump of barcopa in the back recently planted.

Anything else i should do?


----------



## IDR

Shidohari said:


> I just got my ram on Sunday or Monday. I couldn't afford to buy a school of either of the two fish when i went in, so i invested in the single fish that will be in my 20 gallon Tall tank..
> 
> I will raise my temperture in my tank slightly, i just have to watch it due to my shrimp.
> 
> I was thinking about getting the rasbora's first as they're the more peaceful fish for my first school, then waiting two to three weeks to get my additional school if i decide to do so.
> 
> Plants are two pieces of driftwood, a small piece with narrowleaf java fern, and a medium piece with a recently planted anubias nana plant. I have one banana plant in the front center of the tank and one clump of barcopa in the back recently planted.
> 
> Anything else i should do?


Could you post a photo of your tank? It doesn’t sound like you have too many plants, so that could also be an issue. Rams need cover. They can be aggressive at times, especially when breeding, but are otherwise fairly shy and like to hide in caves or between leaves/plants.

Before you get another Ram though, I’d definitely suggest a schooling fish like Rasboras. Those really should have been in the tank from the start, so the Ram didn’t develop a territory. It’s why Rams are always added last.

You basically have a handful of shrimp, two Cory cats and a Ram in the tank right now, right?


----------



## Shidohari

IDR said:


> Could you post a photo of your tank? It doesn’t sound like you have too many plants, so that could also be an issue. Rams need cover. They can be aggressive at times, especially when breeding, but are otherwise fairly shy and like to hide in caves or between leaves/plants.
> 
> Before you get another Ram though, I’d definitely suggest a schooling fish like Rasboras. Those really should have been in the tank from the start, so the Ram didn’t develop a territory. It’s why Rams are always added last.
> 
> You basically have a handful of shrimp, two Cory cats and a Ram in the tank right now, right?


Correct, I have enough money on my one credit card go get about 3-4 harlequin rasboras now if absolutely necessary. It would just not be a full school until friday when i get paid.


----------



## IDR

I'd add a full school at once, not in piece meal, so hang on until you've got the cash. It's better for the Rasboras, and better for the tank in general.

I've never added a school like that after Ram's, so I can't really tell you how they will react. I also don't know the temperament of your existing Ram, but I can tell you that if there's just the one, you could fare just fine. Especially if he's only been in the tank a few days now.


----------



## JustJen

In all honesty, the temp for the cherry/blueberry shrimp really isn't likely to stay a concern because it's all but a guarantee that they'll get eaten by either the ram(s) or cherry barbs. Many a dwarf shrimp has been eaten by much smaller and much less aggressive fish than those. (in my case, it was a few guppies wiping out an entire colony of orange sakuras in the 9 hours I was gone to work one day - after living seemingly peacefully for months).


----------



## Shidohari

JustJen said:


> In all honesty, the temp for the cherry/blueberry shrimp really isn't likely to stay a concern because it's all but a guarantee that they'll get eaten by either the ram(s) or cherry barbs. Many a dwarf shrimp has been eaten by much smaller and much less aggressive fish than those. (in my case, it was a few guppies wiping out an entire colony of orange sakuras in the 9 hours I was gone to work one day - after living seemingly peacefully for months).


Here is the tank.



and my ram would only have been in the tank for about a week when i get paid on friday. do you think he would still be okay if i add the school then? the school would probably be rasboras given what JustJen mentioned about the barbs. I may also think about getting some freeze dried alternative to have on hand so that all my fish aren't just eating Aquadine food when i get paid.


----------



## IDR

Not a lot of cover in there. You really should consider adding quite a few more plants in there. At least a few taller ones, so the GBR has some room for cover.

JustJen is also right about your shrimp. The dwarfs are going to end up snacks for the GBR, for sure.

You would probably be OK to add the Rasboras, like I said before, but you really should get more into the tank so the fish have a couple places to hide.


----------



## Shidohari

IDR said:


> Not a lot of cover in there. You really should consider adding quite a few more plants in there. At least a few taller ones, so the GBR has some room for cover.
> 
> JustJen is also right about your shrimp. The dwarfs are going to end up snacks for the GBR, for sure.
> 
> You would probably be OK to add the Rasboras, like I said before, but you really should get more into the tank so the fish have a couple places to hide.


What kind of plants would you suggest. I just bought the barcopa for the background so it hasn't had time to grow tall yet. Same with the Anubias. the Narrowleaf java fern was originally in my ten gallon tank. so it's finally now in a proper sized tank so it could grow taller. I want something that's easy to care for, and won't crowd out the plants i have existing that i'm waiting to grow more.

I have been using doses of Excel organic Carbon by that company that starts with an F each day right now.


----------



## iamtechno

I personally really like Anubias but you could get swords or ferns or a number of other plants. Anubias can be a fairly slow grower sometimes. A sword or couple swords and maybe some bunch plants such as rotala or some hygro, a couple Anubias. You could get some smaller plants that would slowly fill in the bottom such as Microsword or I've got Dwarf Sag spreading in a few of my tanks. It depends on what you want to do.


----------



## The Dude

I would suggest a plant package from the For Sale section of the forum. You need to get some break ups for the line of sight and hiding spots for what you want in that tank. Consider Hydrocotyle Japan as a versatile plant that can make a fast easy growing carpet. Also maybe a Amazon Compacta, Anubias, etc. 
Get some good plant mass going in there and in a couple weeks when you have more money all of your fish will be happier and you'll have a much higher chance of success. 
Research some plants you like and go from there. I'm able to stock all of my tanks with not only numbers of fish that most would be hesitant to do, but also combinations of species that are normally not successful together due to their aggression due to my heavy planting.


----------



## Shidohari

Thanks everyone for your advice, when i get a moment i'll get a new show you my updated tank. It has more plants in it (which still need to fill out) I am also going to get another bunch of bacopa for the back right hand side when i get paid Friday. 

Sadly we don't have much selection of plants in my area, but i know what i've had luck with in the past. 

I haven't been able to find microswords (place i get them from was out) but did get some anacharis for the back left side, a red wendii for the right front side. Also one top fin pack of dwarf hairgrass where i put half to the left side of the left driftwood, and half to the right side of the right driftwood in front if the wendii.

I still have my one german ram and added my school of 8 harlequin rasbora which was advised by alot of people to be my primary school. Doing the last thing tomorrow and getting 2 cory cats to round out my shoal. 

After that it'll be about two to three weeks before i either consider getting a second school, expanding my harlequin school, or getting a second male ram.

Temperture in my tank was finally up to about 81.0 F when i left for work.


----------

