# Make your own fancy manten/seiryu stones



## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

I DON'T REALLY CONDONE ANY OF YOU TRYING THIS YOURSELF. THIS IS JUST FOR LEARNING PURPOSES AND SO YOU KNOW MY PROCESS. 

Ok here we go I went out on an adventure today to snag me up some dolomite with tons of CaMg ( Co3) " Calcium Magnesium Carbonate " veins in it. Im gonna go over the effect and how to make it look cool but also inert after the process. 

Here's the stones before I washed them. Go ahead and give them a good old scrub in water so we don't waste any acid later on melting dirt. 









Now to show you that the stones are indeed inert aside from the Calcium Magnesium Carbonate throughout the stones here is a pic of the vinegar test.























And here is a muratic acid test notice how only the veins bubble up.























I prefer to use hydrocloric acid but I don't have any till tomorrow and well im just impatient  

Lets send these babys for a swim and see what we get. 









Give it 20-30 minutes then toss them back in the water or leave longer if any veins remain. 

Now lets see some of the finished product. 






























This is definitely not some of the better peices because they will have to soak overnight. The bigger the calcium vein the longer the wait the better they look. I will update tomorrow. If anyone is interested in purchasing some to fund my hobby feel free to pm me. I will be going around 2 bucks a pound which is faaaar cheaper than anything else around.

Here's a good one this little guy went in white and came out like this.









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## chocological (Nov 13, 2012)

Hey, not bad!


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

I actually like the white veins in it.


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## colaudrey (Oct 4, 2013)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I actually like the white veins in it.


the original stones do look nice, but i think the veins would mess with the chemistry of the water so using them is out of the question ):


but op found a nice little trick!


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

chocological said:


> Hey, not bad!


Thank you choco. 

The veins are not quarts or quartzite which would be nice since that would be inert. Its made up of calcium Magnesium abd low low levels of iron. Actually If you raise shrimp, have soft water, or use r/o the rocks woulbe be nothing short of a miracle rock for shrimp and bringing up your ph naturally. More molts more eggs better shells. Magnesium = less sick fish aswell. Unfortunately the Salt lake valley's water is nothing short of liquid rock so I couldn't use the veined rocks unless I got an r/o system going. 
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## twentypoundtabby (Dec 7, 2013)

I could see anubias being able to really get a grip on those.


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## jrh (Sep 9, 2007)

So, unless we're using the same terms differently, dolomite IS CaMg(CO3)2. It's not inert, it's simply harder and more stable than garden variety limestone. This process sounds like it dissolves calcite (CaCO3) veins, leaving behind dolomite.

This sounds like a wonderful process for making attractive stones appropriate for use in many aquariums, but if the resulting product is dolomite, then I disagree that it is inert.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Playing with hydrochloric acid isn't a good idea unless you really know the hazards involved and take adequate precautions. But, it does have the advantage of being readily available at swimming pool/spa supply stores.

How do you recognize that the rocks you are working on have dolomite veins and not quartz? (Of course you can check them with a tiny bottle of acid, but at a rock supply yard I suspect that would be frowned on.)


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Ive done bucket tests in the past with ro. And its called fitzville dolomite. And yes i agree hoppy i wouldn't suggest anyone experiment with hydrocloric but at my current place of employment I handle larfe amounts on a daily basis. 

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## jrh (Sep 9, 2007)

Steel should not be able to scratch quartz, but it should be able to scratch both dolomite and limestone.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find anything about fitzville dolomite other than another thread of yours.

Question... the resulting rock after you do your treatment, can it scratch glass? If so, then it could be chert, which is essentially microcrystalline quartz, and chert is inert.


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Yea we are talking about something else jrh dolomite CaMg(CO3) 2 refers to the veins themselves. It very well could be chirt as im unsure of what the grey stone actually is from what I remember I was pulling 0's off the bucket test post treatment. Fitzville dolomite is only found in one spot near timpanogos caves I prefer not to say where specifically but they do have placs etc identifying tge stone. 

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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

Could always cover it in a clear coat


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi All,

Last November this same process was described here. It can be used on many types of limestone rocks such as the Ying (Seiryu) stones from China - with dramatic results.


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Last November this same process was described here. It can be used on many types of limestone rocks such as the Ying (Seiryu) stones from China - with dramatic results.


Not to argue with you here seattle but im not decribing the same process this post is intended to show how to make these specific rocks inert. Ying stones are calcious in nature and would dissolve completely if left for to long. While doing the acid does bring out the crevices the same in ying stone it still leeches minerals into your water after. The post is also about getting the same style of rocks for much much cheaper than any ada stones abd keep them inert. 

After some private messaging with jrh I miss named the stone and believe it to be fitchville dolomite not fitzville. The remaining rock after the bath seems to be chert which is inert "no leeching" which is why I got zero's on my bucket tests. It is not a calciuos limestone. 

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## jrh (Sep 9, 2007)

+1 what he said. 

I like rocks, so I was curious about the whole process he was talking about. I did a little research, and there's a "cherty" dolomite rock in the Fitchville formation near him. Chert flint is a microcrystalline quartz, has a hardness of 7, scratches glass, and is inert. It sounds like the chert has veins of dolomite or limestone, which would be dissolved by the acids he's using, leaving a weathered looking yet inert rock at the end of the process.


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Found a new spot out shooting today!!!  got some more specimens. I'll try that steel trick here in a minute abd let you know jrh. 

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For the sake of my own peice of mind and all of your guy's/gal's safety. I know I said don't do this at home and I also know that some are going to anyways. Let me WARN all of you. THE USE OF HYDROCHLORIC ACID CAN BE VERY HARMFUL!!! any type of rock you put in it WILL create chlorine gas, you know how mama always said not to mix the bleach with toilet cleaner there you go. Chlorine gas will burn your lungs and eyes. So be careful please.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

How long did you do that RO water bucket test?

I'm far from certain what those rocks are, but if what you are showing is before and after pics, it looks like the acid bath is also weathering the rock, and not just the veins.

Based on the pics, I would guess that the bulk of the rock is dolomite, and the vines are calcite - this would cause the veins to dissolve fairly quickly, but the rest of the rock would be less affected. If the matrix(not sure that's the proper term?) were chert, then it should be completely unaffected.

It's just that the post-acid pics are displaying weathering that's pretty typical of carbonate weathering.

If it is dolomite, it will still work great for some tanks, but keep an eye on the water parameters. It won't have as much of an affect as calcite or aragonite, but it could still cause hardness (and pH) to rise.

Also, with so many people trying to find dolomite for their MTS and dirted tanks, if you do have dolomite, you might even be able to smash up the fragments and sell small packages of them to people...


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

I did a one week bucket test.


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## jrh (Sep 9, 2007)

As for me, I 'm guessing the remaining rock is chert flint. If you can scriatch a piece of glass with it, then you then you can sell this tufff to hobbyists who cah''t aford to affect they're water chemestery but like the look of the stone.

jsut take a good steel nail thne next tie your visit your quarry time your down there and try to screatch the rock. (not drill it, not bang the hell of out if, just screatch it).. The veins shoudl scratch the rest of the rock should not (unless we do gown to the derawig board)

And since I helped you find it out what it s is k free give me to a discoult on my :bounce:first order. ,


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## hellfish01 (Mar 10, 2014)

just adding in my two cents here but I also have had this same stone in my aquarium for about a year and a half now and the white lines have dissolved away over time. Of course we are talking about a years time not something fast like this over night. But this is an amazing discovery. Thank you for sharing.



charlest said:


>


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

With the concentrated hydrochloric from my work it's a matter of minutes : P Not that I condone such practices. 

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## hellfish01 (Mar 10, 2014)

Charlest said:


> With the concentrated hydrochloric from my work it's a matter of minutes : P Not that I condone such practices.


Not that you said to use or that i would *not try this at home*. but you stated that research shows, muriatic acid would work to dissolve the calcium and mineral deposits in this rock? if so about how long would a rock have to be down in such chemical to get similar results. i know ro water would be a year but what would be the estimate time frame in muriatic acid?


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

30 minutes to an hour in muratic acid. 

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If your using limestone your gonna have the opposite effect that you want. I'll do a demo when I get home but it's not good waste of acid really. Any veins found in limestone are going to be calcium carbonate much harder than CaMg (co3)2 you'll be left with just the veins themselves cool looking but a waste of time ; P

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## hellfish01 (Mar 10, 2014)

Charlest said:


> 30 minutes to an hour in muratic acid.


thank you. not that i would do something like that of course.


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Lol muriatic is fine...

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It's hydrochloric that creates chlorine gas.

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## hellfish01 (Mar 10, 2014)

:thumbsup:


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Charlest said:


> It's hydrochloric that creates chlorine gas.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D500 using Tapatalk


Muriatic and hydrochloric acid are the same substance, same chemical compound.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

+1 for Hoppy's comment - Muriatic acid is just another name for dilute hydrochloric acid; although it is still very strong and can cause injury to skin, eyes, and clothes.


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Hmm maybe the stuff I got from wally world just sucked. 

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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Manten stone is well worth the effort to try and make this way.


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Well it's like everything else your paying for a name really. I personally have had both manten and seiryu years ago. And a name isn't worth that much to me. If I can collect similar stuff bring home some acid from work and get the job done"with something I can actually use in my already hard water" then why not? Plus my daughter's love going out rock hunting.

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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

I almost forgot this is what happens when you put veined limestone in hydrochloric. Not quite what we want but still awesome.









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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> +1 for Hoppy's comment - Muriatic acid is just another name for dilute hydrochloric acid; although it is still very strong and can cause injury to skin, eyes, and clothes.


Muriatic acid does not mean it is dilute hydrochloric acid.

It is the historic (trivial) name for hydrochloric acid. I have bought 10M HCl that was labeled as "muriatic acid."


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

I wasn't sure so it wasn't worth the argument. But I am sure that the muriatic puts off zero odor or gas when I used it. I drive a concrete truck so we use really strong hydrochloric to clean our trucks. The stuff will choke you out. I would describe it as breathing in but your not getting any air if your not wearing a mask your lungs tighten up you cough gag but your lungs are empty. only reason I put a warning here. If you get it on your hands it just itches and drys your skin out.

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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

Great write up Charles. Me and Jao did this a few years back and he made an awesome Iwagami scape with them.


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Deaf Kim or Chinese kim? Anyways Craig I got a bunch again. And I was thinking of heading down your way tomorrow wanna go rock hounding?
Across the river where we were talking about there's some slate poking out the cliff with fossils I was gonna pick up a pick today.

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Funny story for you guys. One cold morning at work I was filling up my bucket with hydrochloric to go clean my truck. Well I was walking back to my truck on ice slipped onto my back. 5 gallons of hcl dumped right on my chest I stripped down to my undies in 20 degree weather in under 10 seconds in front of everyone. I was rubbing lotion on my skin for a week straight.

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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

Charlest said:


> Deaf Kim or Chinese kim? Anyways Craig I got a bunch again. And I was thinking of heading down your way tomorrow wanna go rock hounding?
> Across the river where we were talking about there's some slate poking out the cliff with fossils I was gonna pick up a pick today.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D500 using Tapatalk


Asian Kim. Yeah that spot by the mouth of the Canyon is loaded with that rock. I wont be available to go rock hounding, working on the yard.


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

So, curious, what is the best way to dispose of the acid once you are done?


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## Charlest (May 24, 2011)

Quick Lime or milk Will neutralize the acid.

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