# Fun With Hair Algae



## Postal Penguin (Mar 30, 2009)

I have/had hair algae in my tanks and I stopped dosing iron completely. It seems to have helped quite a bit. I use root tabs around the plants that need iron.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I have song I'd like to sing.

---
lower your lights
so it's not too bright

up your C O 2
it might be a clue

make sure to dose
so your plants won't toast

but mostly, 
lower your lights.

----


thank you very much. *bows


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Postal Penguin said:


> I have/had hair algae in my tanks and I stopped dosing iron completely. It seems to have helped quite a bit. I use root tabs around the plants that need iron.


Never had an issue with this type of algae and iron. It has always been one of three things (or every one in the list): too much light, not enough nutrients or too low co2.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

mistergreen said:


> I have song I'd like to sing.
> 
> ---
> lower your lights
> ...


:bounce::bounce::bounce: APPLAUSE :bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

I just came in to work today to find the algae had completely taken over the entire tank. I think I may know what the issue is. I'm using the DIY 'hagen elite' mini-filter co2 reactor/diffuser, connected to turn on/off along with my lights on a timer. I think the issue is that the filter fills up with co2 overnight when not running, and when the timer turns the lights on, the filter isn't powerful enough to clear out all of the built up co2 in the lower chamber, and never starts up. IE: over the weekend, my tank was running with the lights on as normal, but with ZERO co2... :icon_sad:

I'm going to try a blackout for a few days, combined with picking up some flourish excel and overdosing the tank to try to knock the algae back a bit. I'm also going to have to find a way to rig up the co2 diffuser so it will properly start up after being off overnight...

EDIT: As far as the too much light suggestions, I do think this is a factor. I'm going to cut back my photoperiod to 8 hours (from 9) to start, and possibly go shorter if that doesn't seem to make any difference.

As far as dosing, I'm dosing this tank via EI, so I don't think lack of nutrients is too much of a factor here.

RE-EDIT: Just to throw this out there, would there be any incredibly negative effects to only running the lights an co2 on this tank monday through friday, and simply leaving them off over the weekends?


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

SvenBoogie said:


> I just came in to work today to find the algae had completely taken over the entire tank. I think I may know what the issue is. I'm using the DIY 'hagen elite' mini-filter co2 reactor/diffuser, connected to turn on/off along with my lights on a timer. I think the issue is that the filter fills up with co2 overnight when not running, and when the timer turns the lights on, the filter isn't powerful enough to clear out all of the built up co2 in the lower chamber, and never starts up. IE: over the weekend, my tank was running with the lights on as normal, but with ZERO co2...


Your initial post gives very little info about the tank. Are you using DIY CO2 or pressurized? From the description above it sounds like DIY. In that case leave the filter/diffuser running 24/7 since there is no way to "turn off" the gas. You could hook up an airstone to a timer so that it runs at night to prevent gassing your fish though most DIY rigs won't generate enough CO2 to gas the fish overnight. 



SvenBoogie said:


> I'm going to try a blackout for a few days, combined with picking up some flourish excel and overdosing the tank to try to knock the algae back a bit. I'm also going to have to find a way to rig up the co2 diffuser so it will properly start up after being off overnight...


I have never found Excel to kill hair algae. What Excel is good for in a situation like this is "backing up" your insufficient CO2 with a second carbon source. Something is out of balance with your tank and most likely the culprit is too little CO2 for the amount of light. The basis of your problem sounds like it is your CO2 system. The first thing you need to do is straighten that out. The rest of your suggested "fixes" will not help if you don't straighten out what seems to be the primary issue light vs CO2 levels. Are you using a drop checker (filled with 4 dKH water) to monitor your CO2 levels? If not how do you know whether your CO2 is sufficient even when your filter/diffuser is running properly?



SvenBoogie said:


> EDIT: As far as the too much light suggestions, I do think this is a factor. I'm going to cut back my photoperiod to 8 hours (from 9) to start, and possibly go shorter if that doesn't seem to make any difference.


You haven't told us yet exactly how much light is over the tank and what kind (PC, T5 etc.) Reducing photoperiod is not the same as reducing light intensity. It will help a bit but one hour won't make much of a difference. If you are going to cut duration cut back from 9 hours to 5-6 hours. It takes a few weeks for changes to fully manifest so cutting back one hour to "see if it makes a difference" before cutting back further is just going to make it take longer for your tank to turn around since you are setting yourself up for multiple rounds of "experiments" in pursuit of a resolution to your problem. If you are running a multi-bulb PC fixture you may be able to remove one of the bulbs, cutting intensity is much more effective than cutting duration. 




SvenBoogie said:


> As far as dosing, I'm dosing this tank via EI, so I don't think lack of nutrients is too much of a factor here.


There is no info in your post to evaluate this comment but generally dosing ferts EI style ensures that nutrients (with the exception of carbon) are not an issue. If you are dosing EI style are you doing the weekly 50% water change?



SvenBoogie said:


> RE-EDIT: Just to throw this out there, would there be any incredibly negative effects to only running the lights an co2 on this tank monday through friday, and simply leaving them off over the weekends?


How are you going to convince the plants that you would prefer they pretend they don't exist on the weekend? Starving them for light and nutrients two days a week is not going to help them to get stronger.

I suggest you work on getting your CO2 in balance with your lighting and even once you do that you will need to be vigilant about keeping the tank clean and pruned of all algae until the plants are back to full health.

Good luck!


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

mistergreen said:


> I have song I'd like to sing.
> 
> ---
> lower your lights
> ...


Nice! :bounce:roud:
But is there any specific tune we should sing it to?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Nice! :bounce:roud:
> But is there any specific tune we should sing it to?


do you know where I can post a sound file? I pulled out garageband and played something. It's horribly out of beat but it's kinda funny.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

here you go. it too me 5 minute to make and a day to upload.
http://music.sharemusic.com/_Casio-beat/audio/550520/1713.html


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You are too funny, mistergreen. :hihi:

To the OP, you are probably running too much light. I had this algae and upped my co2 and turned the lights off for an hour mid-cycle with the co2 still going. This actually helped and in a few weeks, I no longer see it.


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> You are too funny, mistergreen. :hihi:
> 
> To the OP, you are probably running too much light. I had this algae and upped my co2 and turned the lights off for an hour mid-cycle with the co2 still going. This actually helped and in a few weeks, I no longer see it.


Thanks, will give this a try.


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

Just figured I'd keep this updated in case any of the info is helpful to anyone else who runs into the same issue. 

Heres what I've done so far, too early for results as I did most of this today, but will post once I see how this goes:

Mixed up a new second bottle of DIY co2. Now have both bottles marked with the day they were mixed, one a week apart from the other. Will be making sure to stay on a strict schedule and replace each bottle once its been running for a few weeks (trying to decide whether I'll go with every 2 weeks or every 3)

Tried treating the tank with 3ml/gal hydrogen peroxide (yesterday), didn't work in the slightest, algae had in fact increased when I came in today.

Original lighting was 2 x 26w spiral CF (6700k), stepped down to 2 x 18w for now, at least until I can get this cleared up.

Did as close to a total manual cleaning as I could manage. Removed a large (for this size tank) driftwood piece which seemed to be party central for the algae. Took the flame moss off the driftwood, soaked the driftwood (along with heater, filter housing, etc) in a STRONG hydrogen peroxide solution for an hour or more. Scrubbed down all equipment and the sides of the tank as best I could, pruned back the worst infested stems, and did a nearly 50% water change. 

Will be cutting the photoperiod to ~7 hrs going forward.

Will post once I have any info on how this is working out to get rid of this stuff.


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

As of today, algae had actually grown again overnight... :confused1:

Will be picking up ~10 Amanos this weekend. I'm well aware this isn't an end-all solution or anything close to it, but hopefully they will at least add SOME level of cleaning.


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

and here's why I bought my first pressurised system lol. The DIY Co2 ALWAYS gave me issues, no matter how "well" I kept up with it. 

good luck with your barber shop.


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## SamH (Jul 17, 2009)

I can't belive anyone hasn't suggested this, or did I just not read it?

Anyways, do a whole tank blackout. Pull out the CO2 line, cover the tank in a towel or something that'll let NO light in. Turn off lights, only leave filter and heater running. Leave tank for 3 days, don't be tempted to touch it. After those three days, check if algae is gone. If not, leave blacked out for another three days. Maybe feed your fish when you check on it, but not too regularly.

I tried the above method and it worked great for my. No algae for me in under a week.

HTH, good luck


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

SamH said:


> I can't belive anyone hasn't suggested this, or did I just not read it?
> 
> Anyways, do a whole tank blackout. Pull out the CO2 line, cover the tank in a towel or something that'll let NO light in. Turn off lights, only leave filter and heater running. Leave tank for 3 days, don't be tempted to touch it. After those three days, check if algae is gone. If not, leave blacked out for another three days. Maybe feed your fish when you check on it, but not too regularly.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion, I may end up giving this a try. I tried a blackout for just one day, probably wasn't nearly enough time. Currently, I don't actually have any fish, so thats one thing that makes this at least a little bit easier. 

To the person who commented about pressurized co2, I'm strongly considering it. Currently my top priority as far as throwing money at it is the 40 breeder I'm working on (which WILL have pressurized co2.) I am, however, trying to research putting together a (reasonably) budget pressurized system for this tank, so if you have any tips...


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## phan10ms (Sep 7, 2009)

SamH said:


> I can't belive anyone hasn't suggested this, or did I just not read it?
> 
> Anyways, do a whole tank blackout. Pull out the CO2 line, cover the tank in a towel or something that'll let NO light in. Turn off lights, only leave filter and heater running. Leave tank for 3 days, don't be tempted to touch it. After those three days, check if algae is gone. If not, leave blacked out for another three days. Maybe feed your fish when you check on it, but not too regularly.
> 
> ...


I'm a bit confused with this. There's one guy that says keep the co2 running with less to no light and now you're saying lose the co2 and the light? I'm starting to notice signs of hair algae. I want to get to the bottom of this before it gets any worst.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

phan10ms...Plants don't utilize CO2 in the dark... doing a black out is different than reducing light intensity/photoperiod and increasing CO2

The one time I did a blackout it did not kill the hair algae but decimated my downoi, the rest of my stem plants grew tall and very leggy despite being kept in total darkness. I would be reluctant to try another black out despite claims that it works.


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

captain_bu said:


> phan10ms...Plants don't utilize CO2 in the dark... doing a black out is different than reducing light intensity/photoperiod and increasing CO2
> 
> The one time I did a blackout it did not kill the hair algae but decimated my downoi, the rest of my stem plants grew tall and very leggy despite being kept in total darkness. I would be reluctant to try another black out despite claims that it works.


Yeah, its a risk, but at least for this tank its only 10g, and the current plants in the tank are rotala sp. green, flame moss, rotala vietnam, and rotala wallichii. I'm leaving the lights off and the tank 'blacked out' today through Monday. Have flourish excel and a drop checker in transit and will be here next week. Buying some amano shrimp tomorrow to add to the tank, for the record, this is not just a measure to try to reduce the algae, I had planned for a while now to keep this an amano shrimp only tank. The algae issues just stepped up my time table.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

Blackouts have worked for others so hopefully doing one will work for you. If you are about to lose all your plants to algae there is not much more to lose if they don't come through the blackout. Hair algae can be a real pain to eliminate, let us know if the blackout helps.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

did the ottos help?


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

The 3 day blackout made no visible dent...


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

Got my excel, day after initial (5ml/10gal) treatment... 

Algae is still worse than it was yesterday.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

BO works wonders on this specific species.

3 days, total blackout.

Trim as needed.

2-3 days worth of light and good CO2. Use less light also if possible.

Another 3 day blackout if you see any signs of it coming back. 
Then back to lights and CO2 for another 2-3 days. Repeat BO if you see any algae, do water change right when you turn the CO2/lights back on.

Pretty simple and focusing on CO2, using less light keeps the nutrients independent.

Works really well on green algae species(all).
Green algae is unaffected by Excel BTW, like higher plants, they are able to detoxify it and use it as a carbon source. 
So light and good stable CO2 are your best defenses against Green algae.
But the same can be said for all algae.
Less light will help any algae issue in general.

Start there, blackouts are good in the 3day on off cycle(this can be repeated many times without any long term issue to plants)

Cost: nothing.
Results: highly effective.
Applicability: wide.

Leave lights at lower levels for a week or two and watch for any algae, keep on top of things, good CO2, clean everything, filters, flows, trimming, any loose leaves, clean glass, equipment etc etc.

You should be okay to add more light back once the tank is doing better.
Or not............you might less growth and slower trimming frequencies, and less chance of algae all the time.

Most of my tanks are less than 2w/gal and the lights are 12" or higher over the aquariums, and the tanks are 24" deep as it is.

Fairly low light.

Low light + good high CO2 makes a more manageable aquarium.
Then nutrients are really really easy(no matter what method or location they are added).

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

Strangely, I did a 3 day blackout last friday, saturday, and sunday. No visible decrease in the algae at all.

EDIT: 

I'm going to try a blackout for a week straight.

I'm pretty sure both my rotala wallichii and rotala vietnam are completely dead. The algae utterly smothered them and they just rotted away underneath it getting no light. 

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very discouraged about this whole tank right now.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

SvenBoogie said:


> Strangely, I did a 3 day blackout last friday, saturday, and sunday. No visible decrease in the algae at all.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


So you did a water change, then covered the aquarium completely with a blanket so that no light got in at all, and disconnected the CO2?

Then 3 days later you are telling me that it had no impact on this green algae? You missed the part with the blanket or something.
The blackout does not simply mean turning the light off, it means 100% absence of light. Ambient light can cause the algae to stay around and wait.

Total darkness will really hurt it.

Oedogonium, Diatoms, Rhizoclonium and Spirogyra are really harmed this way, Cladophora not much. You have Oedogonium from the looks in the pics.

Rather than doing a week of darkness, try 3 days off(100% covered and no light at all), then 2-3 days of light, then 3 days off, and then 2-3 days of light.

After a few cycles, the algae should be gone, then adjust the CO2 etc, back off the light etc.

A week without light is going to hurt the plants too much. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

> So you did a water change, then covered the aquarium completely with a blanket so that no light got in at all, and disconnected the CO2?
> 
> Then 3 days later you are telling me that it had no impact on this green algae? You missed the part with the blanket or something.
> The blackout does not simply mean turning the light off, it means 100% absence of light. Ambient light can cause the algae to stay around and wait.


I know it sounds hard to believe, but yes. I cut a cardboard box to create a cover for the front and sides of the tank, covered the top, and the back already has a black background attached. There was no visible change at all in the algae when all this was removed on day 4.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Then try it again, this time use black trash bags and cover it 2-3 layers thick and tape it.

Do a 50% water change or larger even, clean off all algae on glass, clean the filter, clean the CO2 equipment etc, disconnect CO2 etc, add more current, surface movement during blackout.

Wait 3 full days.

Take it off.

Reconnect things, do a 50% water in the morning maybe a hour or so after the lights come on. Dose etc.

If the CO2/light are reasonable, this should NOT be happening.
Try adjusting lighting to a lower intensity/raising it higher above the tank, add some screen to block some of the light etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

Thanks, will give this a try. Would adding some plant mass help during this process? I recently took out a large piece of driftwood, so the tank has a rather large barren substrate space in the center of the tank...



plantbrain said:


> Then try it again, this time use black trash bags and cover it 2-3 layers thick and tape it.
> 
> Do a 50% water change or larger even, clean off all algae on glass, clean the filter, clean the CO2 equipment etc, disconnect CO2 etc, add more current, surface movement during blackout.
> 
> ...


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## BobinCA (Jul 20, 2009)

*Tom, what about Cladaphora?*

Tom,

You just made mention that the BO procedures that you are recommending for Green Hair algae are not really effective against Cladaphora.
So what methodology is recommended in getting rid of Cladaphora??
Please, I need to know.

Regards,
Bob


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

SvenBoogie said:


> Thanks, will give this a try. Would adding some plant mass help during this process? I recently took out a large piece of driftwood, so the tank has a rather large barren substrate space in the center of the tank...


Well, I covered the tank on friday afternoon/evening, and will be uncovering it tomorrow... its kind of driving me nuts not being able to see whats going on in there as I'm worried some of the amanos in the tank might be dead, but I'm resisting temptation... will post tomorrow once I see how this worked...


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

Well, the 3 day blackout made a huge dent, but the algae isn't completely gone yet... I guess I'll try lights and co2 on for two days, then maybe do another 3 day blackout to see if I can get rid of it...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

SvenBoogie said:


> Well, the 3 day blackout made a huge dent, but the algae isn't completely gone yet... I guess I'll try lights and co2 on for two days, then maybe do another 3 day blackout to see if I can get rid of it...


2-4 cycles should beat it up good, might not entirely take it out, but should allow you time to fix the main issue, also reduce the light for a week or two after.

Trim, clean, change filter, run UV, water change water changes etc........
This stuff is all basic but many do not do this.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

BobinCA said:


> Tom,
> 
> You just made mention that the BO procedures that you are recommending for Green Hair algae are not really effective against Cladaphora.
> So what methodology is recommended in getting rid of Cladaphora??
> ...


physically remove any and all remnant. Good thing they don't grow that fast and they tend to clump together.

When they grow on plants, I usually cut and throw away the bad part or throw away the whole plant.


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

Tom,

Thanks for the tip on this method, really worked out, and I'm fairly confident a few cycles will get it to a level where I can mostly eradicate it entirely with adjustments to the tank. I'll be able to follow the other recommendations with the exception of the UV. Fortunately however, the water I add to the tank on water changes is already UV processed. I've already cut the light back from 2 x 26w spiral CF to 2 x 18w spiral CF, so we'll see how this works out. No amano shrimp losses after the blackout, which is a major plus. 



plantbrain said:


> 2-4 cycles should beat it up good, might not entirely take it out, but should allow you time to fix the main issue, also reduce the light for a week or two after.
> 
> Trim, clean, change filter, run UV, water change water changes etc........
> This stuff is all basic but many do not do this.
> ...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Patience, human factors play massive roles.

Never forget this.

You can keep whacking it with many little hammers to beat the algae back and to grow the plants. Be careful when folks claim they have the silver bullet cure all. They lie.

Work at it from the preventative approach.
What causes plants to grow well/better?
How many different ways can we beat on algae at one time?

Water changes
Short duration Blackouts
Excel
Good pruning methods
Good filter routine cleaning 
Clean cO2 equipment, get good dual stage regs and nice needle valves, good CO2 diffusion
Etc etc

Tom Barr


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

Just figured I'd add an update to this for the record, in case anyone else runs into similar issues. I'm currently blacking out the tank every weekend when I'm not at work, and over the 2 day blackout this last weekend, pretty much every trace of the algae disappeared. I'll have to consider whether an ongoing weekend blackout is damaging to the plants/fish in the long run, but it seems the 3 day blackout, a few days lights on, 2 day blackout really did the trick.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2013)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for keeping the thread & updates going bro, really helpful information & i'm sure it has helped a lot of people. Much appreciated = )


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