# DIY Automated dosing/topoff



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

*I spent too much*

I don't have it all in yet, the pump arrives Friday, but I clearly just spent too much money trying to do something similar. But getting the timer at Radio Shack, and the peristalic pump and a custom T from http://www.automatedaquariums.com was definately past $100. I feel a bit stupid now.

Can you explain the back pressure concerns on your canister?

And not to harp on a recent subject, but are you planning on putting the T pre, or post canister? And I haven't even stopped to consider questions like how this relatively high concentration of cold fert will affect an in-line heater or CO2 reactor. Gosh, it's all connected.

I can't wait to hear how it turns out - 'cuz I'm trying to figure it out as I go...


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Sorry I didn't informed you earlier, you definitely saved me some money. I have back pressure on the Co2 tubing that connects to the reactor. I think its because the glass outlet pipe probably restricts the flow. I'm planning to install the TEE on the intake side (no room left on the outlet side) so I guess there would be no pressure problems. I don't think it really matters either way. I dose so little on my 20 gallon, I don't think it matter where I install the TEE.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

The intake side has got to be free of most complications, but there still can be pressure to recon with. I have assumed that there is not enough pressure to worry about, but the check valve from www.ryanherco.com is great! I didn't know where to get a fluid check valve. Looks like a great site! So I may have overpaid for a T that doubles as a check valve, but I'll save money in the future on liguid flow problems using them as a source. Thanks.

All that said, if someone is willing to try it, I'll wager that a peristalic put deals well with the back pressure issue, and will not flow in reverse because of it. I guess the real danger is just something happening to your setup, and draining your tank. Check valve sounds like a necessity, not for pressure, but for safety.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> Check valve sounds like a necessity, not for pressure, but for safety.


I was also thinking the check valve was needed to keep the fertilizer from being sucked out.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Pls excuse my ignorance. I know the check valve, in the direction you've documented it, will keep water from flowing our of the line if something happens to your dosing setup. But can it also keep fluid from being sucked out of the fert lines?

I did't know a check valve could do that. And even if it won't, the peristolic pump should act like a shut off valve when it is not moving, and not allow anything to flow thru it. In either direction.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

I was thinking more about keeping the fertilizer from mixing with the aquarium water. Yeah your right the pump will keep the fluid from flowing, but I figured there had to be some kind of wall to keep from the solutions from mixing. Maybe that wouldn't work?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

If we assume the pump will keep the fert out of the water line (sounds like untested agreement on that point), then I would definately want the valve for safety - not finding the tank siphoned off onto the floor.

But it does raise the question of "at what point do you want to separate the fert from the water - keeping it from mixing?" That can be either at the pump, or at a check valve (if used).

Since a "dose" is anything that has left the pump, I would assume thar you would want everything that has left the pump to be in the water. Even if that last bit left in the feed line to the T just seeps in after the pump stops, rather than coming in under pressure. It's still part of the dose.

But to do that you have to eliminate the check valve, raising the safety issue again.

This is a quandry.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

My peristalic arrived Friday, a few days ago - spent much time this weekend getting it hooked up. First challenge - verify flow rate. Based on my measures, rather than the vendors posted .5ml/min, it is closer to around .63 +/- .02ml/min.

Learned a few vauable lessons worth passing along...
1) If you get a pump with 1/32" tubing, finding reducing connectors will be hard, and possibly very expensive. Everything appears to get much easier with 1/16" tubing. I had to kludge it with using silicon air tubing as a coupling to larger hose sizes, augmented with super-glue at the point of contact, reinforced with liberal amounts of silicon sealant at the seams.
Lesson - 1/32" tubing does not have readily avilable reducting connectors.

2) 1/32" tubing has an advantageous flip-side - very, very slow water flow. In my case it eliminated the need for a check valve, and the problems that introduced. Sure, I could lose my whole tank. But at the flow rate the tubing accomodates, I figure it would take quite a quite a few weeks!
Lesson - 1/32" tubing can reduce the requirment for a check valve.

I'm sure there will be more lessons still as I try to get the tank settled on a "constant" supply of nutrients, rather than the ups and downs of every other day or so.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

I put my auto dosing equipment together last weekend,


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Wow, looks good. Might have to try that out myself as a DIY (have an itch towards DIY lately, not sure why). Mind sharing how much the total cost was and amount of time spent piecing it together? 

That second shot looks like the bottom of my stand. I've got my light plugged into two of those timers right now.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Great stuff!

It looks like you are dosing from liquid in the Seachem bottle. Is that right? So are you dosing fairly low liguid volumes? Like 5-20 ml/day?

And if so, what's the flow rate on your pump? - I'm assuming your timer works in increments of minutes.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

SP100 OEM Fixed Flow Peristaltic $57.00
TubingMaterial: 1G - Norprene, General Purpose $2.00
TubingSize: 016 - 1.6mm(1/16") 
TBG023.003 1/16" Norprene $7.00/pk of 10ft
TBG023.007 1/8" Norprene $7.00/pk of 10ft.
TBG023.017 1/4" Norprene $8.00/pk of 10ft
$24 for the timer
$5 for tubing reducers and check valve
You can get clear 1/4 tubing at a hardware store, just as much as you need (better so you can see if the fertilizer has run out). I couldn't find the 1/16 and 1/8 so I had to buy 10 ft worth.

I dose 4mL of flourish every other day.
Flow rate is 1ml per minute. Timer has a min. of 1 minute.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

*Resurrecting a thread rather starting a new one,*

With a three week vacation coming up in August I've decided to jump full in to the auto dosing wagon. After looking at the gravity fed solutions and reading about the inconsistancies in their dosing rates I've decided to go motorized.

I ordered six of the dosing pumps (one each for macros and micros for each of my three tanks). I seem to have gotten into a pretty consistent dosing routing over the past couple of months so I'll be trying to mix up batches of macros to last about a month for each tank. I'll test tank and reevaluate the mix after the month is up. So I'll have at least a month and a half to configure the system before vacation starts.

The auto feeders will arrive next week so I'm fully on my way to automating my day-to-day routines.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey Bill, that's great stuff! I _love _ autodosing. Makes things _soo _ easy. Welcome to the club.roud: 

With 6 pumps, you might have to be the honorary president!

Sound's like you got the aquamedics. And they may be very accurate. But I wanted to just let you know that some of these pumps (like mine) do not pump at their rated flows. I believe mine pumps about 25% slower than its rated flow. So you might want to measure it first to confirm the flow rate before you calculate your schedule.

If you'll be dosing everyday, you've got to deal with the "target vs. average" question, and decide what level you want to hit on your ferts. While with a typical dosing schedule you "target" a point to hit when you dose, you go lower than that in between doses. Daily doses allow you to peg a spot and hold it. But the spot you select might not be the same as your old "target".

Good luck! And keep us posted of progress please.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Haha! Thanks for the nomination, Steve. :icon_lol:

Once the pumps arrive I'll run them through their paces to see what their actual flow rates are. Do you notice appreciable differences depending on the height of the output tube? Or do these types of pumps have a flow rate based on head? Maybe not since the rollers are forcing the fluid out. Anyway, I'm planning on doing a three week test run once it's all set up, including skipping the weekly water changes. I should have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done by the time August rolls around.

As for target vs. average, right now I dose to maintain an average target level.  Seriously, though, I've been testing weekly for the past month to gather data. What I'm finding is that NO3 levels stay pretty constant with only fish waste and feeding during the week. But both my 40 and 125g tanks go through about 1-1.5ppm of PO4 every other day. So I've been adding about 5ppm of NO3 after the Saturday water change, then none during the week. Then I add 1.5ppm of PO4 M-W-F.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

bharada said:


> Do you notice appreciable differences depending on the height of the output tube? Or do these types of pumps have a flow rate based on head?


That's a great question. Most peristaltic pumps have phenomenal head height's, like 20', or something ridiculous I believe. But even then, I think it will depend on the mechanism you use to get the ferts in the tank.

You'll have to play with it. It's a bit more imprecise than many might like. In my case, there is _some _ resistance to the flow going in because when I calculate the rate at which my fert batch is supposed to last, I've always got stuff left over. So it's not going in as fast as the pump pumps. But at the same time, with a little tinkering, you can select your target, peg it, and hold it there! Subject of course to the normal variance caused by any changes that occur in the tank (lights, fish, heavy trimming, etc.)

Sounds like you've got your targets established now. Can't wait to hear how it turns out. roud:


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Well, this is definitely an expensive way to keep my brother-in-law from having anything to do with tank maintenance during our vacation.  Since I'm not trying to plumb anything into the filter lines it made the part list a lot less complicated...just the pumps and some vinyl tubing.

Now that I think about it, I wonder how hard it would've been to rig up some drip sprinker heads to a small powerhead...to late now, but I may goof around with the idea for possible future setups (at work tank, for instance)


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

bharada said:


> Now that I think about it, I wonder how hard it would've been to rig up some drip sprinker heads to a small powerhead...to late now, but I may goof around with the idea for possible future setups (at work tank, for instance)


Hmmmm... that makes me wonder. A small powerhead should only be like $10, connected to a timer, and some sort of sprinkler or sprayer... Not that I dose that often, my tanks can go by for a week or two without, but still, that's pretty cheap for automating things! Thanks for the idea... roud: 

<<off searching for cheap powerheads>>


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

bharada said:


> The auto feeders will arrive next week so I'm fully on my way to automating my day-to-day routines.


I'm with you there! Next is auto drain/topoff to get out of the weekly water changes!


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Hmmmm... that makes me wonder. A small powerhead should only be like $10, connected to a timer, and some sort of sprinkler or sprayer... Not that I dose that often, my tanks can go by for a week or two without, but still, that's pretty cheap for automating things! Thanks for the idea... roud:
> 
> <<off searching for cheap powerheads>>


Searching online it looks like the drip emitters go down to 5gph. That would equate to about 10oz/minute. if you could get it to flow at full capacity. I have a couple of powerheads and some drip emitters at home so I'l play around this weekend.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

scolley said:


> I'm with you there! Next is auto drain/topoff to get out of the weekly water changes!


Well, there's no way I can get any of my tanks plumbed for auto drain and fill. I have only limited carte blanch with the missus for my hobbies, and running 3/4" PVC water lines across the living room would fall well out of that area.


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## TechoJunkie (May 6, 2005)

I'm just about to setup my peristaltic pumps (one for macros+one for micros). I was wondering did you tap into the filter lines for both? Or did you run the micros straight into the tank? 
My micros are coming through a 1/16" ID tube so I was thinking of running it straight into the tank (opaque tubing to protect the contents from light damage). Dripping them in, not allowing the tube to touch the water. I will have such a low flow rate on these (1-2ml/day) I don't see any other viable alternative. Just concerned about the distance they travel from beneath the tank to top of tank and the residence time in the tube damaging the Fe.
For the macros I was thinking of injecting them into my CO2 line (just before it enters the reactor) and letting the CO2 push it into the water stream (I run a DIY CO2 reactor on my main filter line).I have a check valve which should stop any issues with fluid backing up but as per previous in this thread so will the pump.
Thoughts?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Brett - 1-2ml/day? Is that right? Or do you mean that you have a timer that turns on long enough to push that out?

I certainly can't tell you the "right" way to get this stuff in to the tank. I think we are all kind of figuring that out now. But I'm injecting the stuff in-line on my canister return, using what is basically a T. I do believe that is how IUnknown is doing it too. IUnknown?

The T I have now is overcomplicated I think. But I've got another pump waiting to be set up for micros, and I bought a plain old plastic T for that. The pump provides enough pressure to push it.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

bharada said:


> Searching online it looks like the drip emitters go down to 5gph. That would equate to about 10oz/minute. if you could get it to flow at full capacity. I have a couple of powerheads and some drip emitters at home so I'l play around this weekend.


I am using 1/2 gal/hour drippers in my yard. However, the pressure created by a "normal" powerhead is nowhere near the tap water pressure. So maybe instead of using one of those drippers, it would be better to use a certain length of airhose. Lot's of things to try... It won't be as exact as a peristaltic pump, but one could just make more diluted solution and in the end it's the same thing, but for $15 instead of $150 roud:


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> I am using 1/2 gal/hour drippers in my yard.


What brand is it? I did a search on Rainbird and only saw the 5gph emitters. When I get serious about testing it out I'll make a trip out to Lowes or HD and see what they actually carry.


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## TechoJunkie (May 6, 2005)

scolley said:


> Brett - 1-2ml/day? Is that right? Or do you mean that you have a timer that turns on long enough to push that out?


Yeah I have a pump that delivers 0.16ml/min so a 6-8 minute cycle each day should deliver what I require. My concern is if I'm injecting what is such a small volume that by the time it fills a non-return valve it might be sitting there for a while before it enters the water column.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Brett -When you are dosing such small volumes (I am too) it is inevitable that some portion of the fert will be in the hardware one to multiple days before it hits your water. I don't see why that should be a big deal. Maybe I'm wrong.

If you are _worried about light damage _ while it in the check valve - wrap in black electrical tape to shut out the light.

If you are _worried about the materials _ in the check valve doing damage - lose the check valve. Shorten the tube between the return line and the pump and let the pump be your check valve.

And if you are _worried about the overall time _ the ferts spend in the hoses - shorten it all. Bring the pump as close as possible to the reservoir. And then bring your return line as close as possible to the pump.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

bharada said:


> What brand is it? I did a search on Rainbird and only saw the 5gph emitters. When I get serious about testing it out I'll make a trip out to Lowes or HD and see what they actually carry.


These are the Raindrip drippers from HD, one side black, one side red, and they come in 1/2 gal/h and 1 gal/hour flavors. But they are made for 20+ psi so I doubt a powerhead would get them dripping at all.


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## g8wayg8r (Dec 24, 2003)

Wish I had joined in a little earlier. I could spend a bunch of time surfing through smallparts.com. 

This link has some  microbore tygon tubing. They also have some teflon shirk wrap that could work. Both are a bit pricy but if it's what you need, it's what you need.

Keep your run lengths short


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

D*mn Andrew! I wish you had seen this earlier too!

I've booked marked that - great stuff! I'm sure will need it soon. Thanks for the post!


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> These are the Raindrip drippers from HD, one side black, one side red, and they come in 1/2 gal/h and 1 gal/hour flavors. But they are made for 20+ psi so I doubt a powerhead would get them dripping at all.


I was at OSH today and I saw the ones you're talking about. So with the low pressure of the powerheads the 5gph (or even 12gph) emitters may be a better bet.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

TechoJunkie said:


> Yeah I have a pump that delivers 0.16ml/min so a 6-8 minute cycle each day should deliver what I require. My concern is if I'm injecting what is such a small volume that by the time it fills a non-return valve it might be sitting there for a while before it enters the water column.


My only concern here would be the ferts crystalizing and clogging up the tube...especially if you're using really small ID delivery tubing. I have my PPS solution mixed in a water bottle and use the cap for measuring the doses. After a couple of days the residue from the cap threads forms a decent crust on the bottle.

Since I can't see backflow being a problem with the pumps so I plan to keep my drip tube submerged to prevent this from happening.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

bharada said:


> After a couple of days the residue from the cap threads forms a decent crust on the bottle.


Wouldn't that be due to evaporation? And if so, if there is no air in the tubing, I would assume there is nothing to fear, regardless of diameter. No?


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I'd be easier to reduce the concentration of the solution that you use in the automatic feeder. You'd have to increase the amount of solution you dose, but that should be easy to do.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

scolley said:


> Wouldn't that be due to evaporation? And if so, if there is no air in the tubing, I would assume there is nothing to fear, regardless of diameter. No?


I'm more concerned that the solution would start evaporating from the tip in...forming a plug at the end of the line.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

bharada said:


> I'm more concerned that the solution would start evaporating from the tip in...forming a plug at the end of the line.


Ah - now I understand... This is an issue if, and only if, you have this set up as an open drip. Not an issue for inline injection. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

scolley said:


> Ah - now I understand... This is an issue if, and only if, you have this set up as an open drip. Not an issue for inline injection. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


You are correct, sir! Since I don't plan on injecting inline I'll just keep the drip tube submerged..


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## TechoJunkie (May 6, 2005)

Ok. So I think I'll submerge the tube and be done with it. At 1/16" ID it won't backflow and empty the tank in a hurry (not at all with the pump connected).


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Anyone see any reason why one couldn't put a T on an SP100 or SP200 peristaltic pump and run from one resevoir of trace ferts to two tanks of similar size (a 90 gallon with a lot of substrate and wood *and* a 65 gallon with less substrate and very little wood). Perhaps I could slow the feed rate by changing the amount of hose to one of the tanks?? Or is this $65 dollars savings asking for serious trouble?


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## filipnoy85 (Dec 10, 2005)

Whoa... talk about bring a thread back to life!

I figure if you could afford an autodosing perstaltic pump, you could probably go the extra $65 and avoid the risk.... 

As for trouble, are you worried about over dosing the 65 or under dosing the 90? I guess under dosing would be better than over dosing if you fertilize from the same line.


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## dipan (Dec 3, 2006)

Betowess said:


> Anyone see any reason why one couldn't put a T on an SP100 or SP200 peristaltic pump and run from one resevoir of trace ferts to two tanks of similar size (a 90 gallon with a lot of substrate and wood *and* a 65 gallon with less substrate and very little wood). Perhaps I could slow the feed rate by changing the amount of hose to one of the tanks?? Or is this $65 dollars savings asking for serious trouble?


You could use one of these for less than a buck to increase resistance on the smaller tank line. A longer line would also increase resistance and decrease flow. This would be adjustable, though ... Might take some playing with to get it just right ...

linky

Or, a more expensive option, but more accurate:

linky 2


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah. dipan. Great links! I've been trying to remember the Aquatic Eco systems name for a while. I just bookmarked it. I could definately use either of those for my two different AS 606 pumps dosing the macros. I ended up putting some lead weight in a brass tee on one to slow down the flow to get the right amount of dose out after tediously adjusting hose length etc. 

Still trying to decide if I might try just one or two of the SP100 peristaltics. These links make getting just one of the peristaltics a definate possibility.Thanks again.

Also, thanks Flipnoy.


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## donaldbyrd (Jun 8, 2005)

Just curious for those of you that are auto dosing into the tank do you have the line in the water or above it and dripping into the tank? Also how do you have the tubing attached to keep it in place?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Wow, thanks for bringing up this post... back when it was new, it inspired me to do the powerhead dosing which is still working great for macros.

Anyways... If you run it for one or a few minutes each day, you would probably want to submerge the line, to prevent the slowly dripping fertilizer from drying up and clogging the outflow.

That leads to two issues... 1) water creeps back into the dosing line and 2) there is a possibility of a siphon and water on your carpet. I guess when using peristaltic pumps neither are an issue. Using a tiny hole as the outlet would remedy both issues as well.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

So far, I have my "airline" hanging an inch or so above the water line, through a plastic cable tie around one of the Eheim intakes. It seems so moist around there, I haven't seen any sign of clogging up yet... but I have only had it operational a few months and I'm still experimenting with dosing.


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## donaldbyrd (Jun 8, 2005)

I have 2 APT peristaltic pumps with the lines in the water it seems to create some head pressure for the pumps I think I am going to try to figure out a way to have them above the water to see if this helps.


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## vidiots (Jun 17, 2006)

Betowess said:


> So far, I have my "airline" hanging an inch or so above the water line, through a plastic cable tie around one of the Eheim intakes. It seems so moist around there, I haven't seen any sign of clogging up yet... but I have only had it operational a few months and I'm still experimenting with dosing.


I also keep my dosing tube a couple inches above the max water level in my sump tank to prevent possible back syphon when the dosing pump is off. Mine has been running for about 8 months with no problems and no sign of residue build up on the tubing. I do get a tiny bit of sediment and staining in my fertilizer reservoir bottles, but not much and I just rinse them out every few months to prevent the sediment from building up to the point where it might get sucked up by the dosing pump.


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## donaldbyrd (Jun 8, 2005)

If you are getting sediments in your bottles, could that be a sign that you are mixing the solutions to concentrated?


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

I've also wondered if there was a maximum recomended concentration?


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## vidiots (Jun 17, 2006)

donaldbyrd said:


> If you are getting sediments in your bottles, could that be a sign that you are mixing the solutions to concentrated?


That is a possibility, however I think if that were the case most of the sediment would be there from the beginning when I mix the solution, because it wouldn't disolve. It also could be because I am using tap water instead of distilled water to make my solutions. Either way it is such a small amount that I don't really worry about it.

If I put 12tsp of dry powder in 1 gal of water and by the time the reservior needs refilled there is say 1/16tsp of sediment at the bottom of the reservoir that is no big loss because 99.5% was still dosed to the tank.


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## dodgefreak8 (Aug 27, 2005)

why don't you just put an airstone on a timer into the bottle. that will stir it up won't it?


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

I was thinking small powerhead myself, but that might be overkill if nothing is really needed.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

dodgefreak8 said:


> why don't you just put an airstone on a timer into the bottle. that will stir it up won't it?


I don't know, but I just ordered 2 of the SP100FO pumps--1.6mm norprene, 115v. I plan on running an airstone for a few minutes prior (maybe during too) dosing. So, I guess well find out! roud:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

That's funny, I ordered two of those pumps myself, and after a month or so they finally shipped (or so I hope).

I plan on dosing straight Flourish/Iron, so settling shouldn't be an issue (I'll shake them up once a week or so).


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Wasserpest said:


> and after a month or so they finally shipped (or so I hope).


Suuuure, Cheer me up! Make me feel Goood about the order........:hihi:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Naja002 said:


> Suuuure, Cheer me up! Make me feel Goood about the order........:hihi:


Oooops, did you need them right away?  Good things come to those who wait. Maybe they just forgot about my order for a while.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

No. Their checkout deal didn't work: Told me that 3 different CCs were all invalid numbers--in IE and FF. I called them and they told me they would get them out next week.

We'll see how it goes. I was just messin' with Ya.......roud:


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Update: Received my 2 pumps--took 1 month. I ordered 2 *Identical* pumps. Pix of the differences below:

Clickable:




The "Stickers" on each motor are identical--but the motors sure aren't. One even has resistors (or something) on the plug-in wire. One pumps 12ml in 5 mins--the other only 9mls.

Pump 1 pumps 2.36mls/min
Pump 2 pumps 1.8mls/min
2.36mls is quite a ways off from 1.5 +/-10-20%

So, now I guess I get to spend another $20 on another timer to get what I need accomplished........:icon_roll


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Lol told you so! One month...

I guess I was lucky, both my pumps _look_ identical, like the one to the right in your picture. One of them is silent, the other one noisy... I blame the different speed, requiring different "transmissions".


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Gotta Love it:

I called them on Wed 5/30 to check the shipping. They said it shipped the day *before*--Tues 5/29.

I just checked the UPS Tracking number--it shipped Thurs 5/31 !!! The day *After* I called.

I guess APT is just one of those companies.


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## vidiots (Jun 17, 2006)

I hope those arent the same kinda pumps I tried the 1st time. On the one I bought the part that spins is connected by a tiny square plastic shaft in the middle. This shaft stripped it self the second time I turned it on and the part that is supposed to spin nolonger did. I was really bummed about it, which is why I went with my second choice of the aqualifter pump which has worked like a champ since.


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