# UV Sterilizer and Fertilizers



## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

I just received a UV sterilizer yesterday and have also started dosing the PPS Pro fertilizers from GLA, before I put the sterilizer in the tank should I be concerned with it converting any of the fertz to toxic chemicals?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Nope, shouldn't be an issue. I've done it before.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

Cool. Seems like I've read that iron can convert from a non toxic form to a toxic form but I was hoping that wasn't the case. :smile:


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

trixella said:


> Cool. Seems like I've read that iron can convert from a non toxic form to a toxic form but I was hoping that wasn't the case. :smile:


Where ever you read that, stop reading there.roud:


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

trixella said:


> Seems like I've read that iron can convert from a non toxic form to a toxic form but I was hoping that wasn't the case. :smile:


Not converted to a toxic soup but UV light can effect some ferts breaking them down to a more inert material but it's not a huge concern. Excel is also effected by UV but what most do is run the units when needed not 24/7 anyway. 

The idea is chelators as used with Fe is to keep the iron bound up and in a form usable to plants. 
Aquatic plants including algae (from what I've read) can and do use both the ferric and ferrous forms of Fe, many, many string debates on this everywhere I surf the web.

Chelators keep the iron in solution longer. UV light brakes down some of the chelator agents used in chemical ferts.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Where ever you read that, stop reading there.roud:


You mean I can't believe_ everything_ I read on the internet??? :biggrin:



wkndracer said:


> Excel is also effected by UV but what most do is run the units when needed not 24/7 anyway.
> 
> The idea is chelators as used with Fe is to keep the iron bound up and in a form usable to plants.
> Aquatic plants including algae (from what I've read) can and do use both the ferric and ferrous forms of Fe, many, many string debates on this everywhere I surf the web.
> ...


Yeah I was definitely planning on only running it for a few hours and not 24/7, I don't have disease issues... just want it for a little water polishing and I wanted to make sure the fishies wouldn't be harmed in the process.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad this thread was made. I am about to get a uv myself


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I ran a UV 24/7 on this setup for over 2 years and had no problems whatsoever:


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> I ran a UV 24/7 on this setup for over 2 years and had no problems whatsoever


Ditto for 4 years.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

houseofcards said:


> I ran a UV 24/7 on this setup for over 2 years and had no problems whatsoever:


That's beautiful. I don't want to run one constantly if I don't have to cuz mine is bulky and sits inside the aquarium, I want to be able to remove it, and plus I figure why gobble up the electricity if I don't have to.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Not to thread jack but that is a beautiful setup!


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

trixella said:


> That's beautiful. I don't want to run one constantly if I don't have to cuz mine is bulky and sits inside the aquarium, I want to be able to remove it, and plus I figure why gobble up the electricity if I don't have to.



I didn't realize you were working with an internal UV. Yes I would do the same thing since it would be additional viewable equipment. 

Thanks for the comments, I just wanted to visually show that you can run a UV 24/7 long-term without an ill effects.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Running 24/7 would be entirely doable but with limited kill life on the bulb even though it still emits light is it still 'killing' anything running >8,000 hrs a year beyond year #1?

Running Aqua UV units here and the bulbs used aren't generic cheap ones either. 

From the Aqua UV site;
“The average lamp life ranges from 8,760 to 14,000 working hours, and the lamps are usually replaced after 12,000 hours of use.”

Power consumption aside I run mine on average 72hrs. per month per tank other than the quarantine system.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

The thread is really addressing a UV in terms of Fert Issues, but if you want to go into cost their really is none. For most setups it's a 9watt bulb that runs around $30. So once a year you replace the bulb? You also have to calculate in the fish that are saved especially during acclimation when their immune systems are stressed. I've increased successful acclimation for Cardinal tetras for example from 50 to 90%. So if you add in the fish and other medicines that you might not need who knows what the true cost is, either way it's very small.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

I just came across this info on F & S....

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=&aid=435

*Operating Guidelines*
While UV sterilizers usually do no harm, do not use one when you first cycle your aquarium, as it may kill beneficial bacteria before they attach to the bio-media or gravel. Also, many medications can be "denatured" by the UV light, so the sterilizer should be turned off when using medications, especially chelated copper treatments. The UV light will "break" the bond of the chelating agent, and the aquarium will have a sudden, lethal concentration of ionic copper.
Once you introduce a UV Sterilizer into your system, carefully monitor your aquarium's temperature. Depending on your aquarium size and flow rate, a UV Sterilizer may add heat to your aquarium water. If this occurs, you may wish to consider installing a chiller.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Refer back to post #5 OP.
Still and all great benefits to be had owning one to use as needed.

re; costs, I have both 8w and 15w units. That rating is the bulb rating alone not total power consumption. All my units contain transformers and these never operate at unity, power loss occurs with heat and other factors. If I was to run my systems as recommended above just bulb replacement would be around $400.00 a year running more than 10 units. As I posted power consumption aside I run mine on average 72hrs. per month per tank other than the quarantine system. 
The only medications I continue to purchase are wormers. 

Planted tanking is never a one trick pony.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I use a Chinese made in tank model I aquired in a trade a couple of years ago for GW outbreaks on my 37g occasionally. I have no idea the specs on it but in about three to four days of 24/7 use the water goes from pea soup to crystal clear. 

What was the reason you wanted to run one OP?


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

bsmith said:


> I use a Chinese made in tank model I aquired in a trade a couple of years ago for GW outbreaks on my 37g occasionally. I have no idea the specs on it but in about three to four days of 24/7 use the water goes from pea soup to crystal clear.
> 
> What was the reason you wanted to run one OP?


I had hazy water I wanted to try to get rid of but it's better now that I've done less water changing. Trying to get a response in this thread relating to the water change and cloudy water...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/138934-when-do-water-change.html


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

The only problem I have with mine is it heats my water to 86F. Wasn't a problem during the Winter months, but now... 86F for long periods can wipe out a lot of plants. Nearly destroyed my 75g. Guess my bulbs get a little hot....36W.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Trix i dont understand truly, your problem baffles me. usually during cloudy water issues. We CHANGE water instead of the opposite of NOT changing. it could e true that your ammoniated tap water could be the root cause as it would cause a bacterial bloom, but i would think that after repeated changes this would eventually go away


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> The only problem I have with mine is it heats my water to 86F. Wasn't a problem during the Winter months, but now... 86F for long periods can wipe out a lot of plants. Nearly destroyed my 75g. Guess my bulbs get a little hot....36W.


Your using a UV that way too big for your setup. You should be using a 9w bulb not a 36w.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

houseofcards said:


> Why come on here and give information like this. Your obviously using a UV that way too big for your setup. You should be using a 9w bulb not a 36w.


It's good to know and he/she did give all the specifics (their wattage). Before I use mine (which is 9 watt) I am wanting to be here for several hours so I can make sure it won't raise the temp. I had read that they can do that sometimes.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> Trix i dont understand truly, your problem baffles me. usually during cloudy water issues. We CHANGE water instead of the opposite of NOT changing. it could e true that your ammoniated tap water could be the root cause as it would cause a bacterial bloom, but i would think that after repeated changes this would eventually go away


Did you read this info on the PPS Pro...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1409500-post5.html

Could explain it. :icon_neut


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> Your using a UV that way too big for your setup. You should be using a 9w bulb not a 36w.


lol, well then maybe it is what not to do then and therefore good to post it. I never recommended against getting one and didn't put that info there to try and persuade. My experience is still what it is, _not_ in error. I got mine long before I had plants to eradicate a continuous parasite problem that plaqued two of my tanks. And although not right for the size tank...more than in the window for the amount of water my filter flows - which is the most important aspect when choosing a UV (ie dwell time).


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

That's interesting that it heats the water that much. I have a 25 watt Gamma plumbed inline on my 75 and it doesn't affect the temp any noticeable amount.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

Jeff5614 said:


> That's interesting that it heats the water that much. I have a 25 watt Gamma plumbed inline on my 75 and it doesn't affect the temp any noticeable amount.


It is the Coralife 12x turbo-twist brand. I have a 25W lifeguard aquatics on one of my 125s and it doesn't raise it quite as much I don't think. Once I saw what my 75g went through I shut them all down. I need to power it back up and monitor temp. HOC - It *is *the right size for this tank. You can check their website if you like.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

(imo) a fairly measured response jrman83
tanking is never a one trick pony (quoting Tom Barr)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

-Moderator note-

I just seriously had to clean up this thread and hand out infractions. Please feel free to debate back and forth, but personal arguments and insults are NOT tolerated here. Let's keep things civil and this an enjoyable hobby and forum!!

*back to our originally scheduled UV sterilizer discussion...*


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

Jeff5614 said:


> That's interesting that it heats the water that much. I have a 25 watt Gamma plumbed inline on my 75 and it doesn't affect the temp any noticeable amount.


Could you please post where you picked yours up at?


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

I'm pretty sure it was from Foster and Smith, but it has been quite a few years, and as with all items such as this I would have just looked around for the best price. I don't see them presently listed on their site and other sites who list them don't seem to really have them. Lamps seem plentiful though. Interesting...When I purchased it I was also looking at Aqua UV's like Wkndracer uses. Gamma's were less expensive so I went with them.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Here's a link but I know nothing about the vendor.

http://www.aquasythe.com/Products/25-Watt-Gamma-UV-Sterilizerbr-by-Current-USA__UV-CT-25.aspx

...and another.

https://www.marinesgardens.com/product_info.php?products_id=884


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

Same thing I am finding. Doesn't seem to be out there too much, although I can find the 15W. Some things I've read makes it look like Aqua UV tok tha Gamma line, or it may be the parent company. Thanks anyway.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

Jeff5614 said:


> Here's a link but I have no nothing about the vendor.
> 
> http://www.aquasythe.com/Products/25-Watt-Gamma-UV-Sterilizerbr-by-Current-USA__UV-CT-25.aspx
> 
> ...


Thanks.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Does Petsmart no longer carry the Green Machine or whatever it was? Those were pretty cheap...


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

I just stuck the uv filter in the tank and turned it on but turned it off after a minute. It cranks the water out pretty quickly, creates a lot of bouncing bubbles that are hitting my light fixture and it's creating alot of bubbles in the water.... is that normal? Is it okay? Should it be moving the water through slowly so as to kill more stuff running through it?


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

trixella said:


> Did you read this info on the PPS Pro...
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1409500-post5.html
> 
> Could explain it. :icon_neut



interesting read.. thanks!

also 135gph doesnt seem too high for that uv.. it does have a small outlet so its very concentrated. it should still do the job


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm running the uv right now and it's filling the tank with a bagillion micro bubbles... do the micro bubbles harm the fish?


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

I just picked up a Deep Blue 9W UV sterilizer over the weekend from another forum. It was brand new and unused for $60, new in store is $120. I have had a lot of green algae on my plant's leaves which have been killing my plants and I just restocked my tank with new plants. Since then I added a new Catalina light 2x24" with T5 6500K bulbs, CO2 and now this UV light. Lets see how the tank improves or worsens with the above upgrades. I only have a 10g tank but heavily planted and with red plants. I might put mine on the time with light so it is used 12 hours a day and light 9 hours a day to minimize algae.

I recommend searching the web and/or other tank forums for a used or new unused UV sterilizer. There are a lot of great deals out there now and people are breaking down their tanks and selling their equipment. I lucked out.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

A UV will not kill algae that is on your plant leaves. It will kill any that you have in the water of your tank. For the UV to affect anything it needs to pass by the UV light.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

This is strange, my tank looks cloudier since running the uv.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> A UV will not kill algae that is on your plant leaves. It will kill any that you have in the water of your tank. For the UV to affect anything it needs to pass by the UV light.


I already replaced all my plants with new ones. So I do not have any on them now and I hope I wont in the future.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> Does Petsmart no longer carry the Green Machine or whatever it was? Those were pretty cheap...


They do. I have the 9 watt version, pretty good for the price


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

trixella said:


> This is strange, my tank looks cloudier since running the uv.


Well I installed mine on Saturday so when I get home from work tonight I will see if its cloudier or clearer. But that is strange that its cloudier, make sure you don't have a dead fish in there. Also, clean the inside of the glass and check your filter.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

TRIX your tank is backwards from everything normal.. are you sure your tank isn't like Pandora's box or anything? anyone one person that has cloudy water could do all the things you've done and it actually get better!!!!


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> TRIX your tank is backwards from everything normal.. are you sure your tank isn't like Pandora's box or anything? anyone one person that has cloudy water could do all the things you've done and it actually get better!!!!


Story of my life... one big anomaly. :hihi: I'm hoping it's just the micro bubbles and that it will clear up once I turn the sterilizer off.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

i will say this, bubbles can significantly change the look of your tank. especially if they are really small


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

trixella said:


> This is strange, my tank looks cloudier since running the uv.


What kind of iron are you dosing? UV sterilizers will pull the iron out of the water if it is the wrong kind. I had to stop using Flourish Iron due to the same cloudiness. Just do a water change, and let your filter take care of the rest. You may need to stop dosing iron while you are using the sterilizer.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm dosing PPS Pro with the dry fertz that I got from Green leaf.... npk and csm+b.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

trixella said:


> I'm dosing PPS Pro with the dry fertz that I got from Green leaf.... npk and csm+b.


strange, is it a milky color to the water? I use CSM+B with no problems with it and the uv. Wonder if your tap has high iron content?


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

well her tap water has high ammonia if i remember correctly, that's why she has stopped doing PWC's


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

Noahma said:


> strange, is it a milky color to the water? I use CSM+B with no problems with it and the uv. Wonder if your tap has high iron content?


It's hazy. I turned it off early this morning and it still looks hazy tonight. I wonder if I just got a crappy sterilizer.



HD Blazingwolf said:


> well her tap water has high ammonia if i remember correctly, that's why she has stopped doing PWC's


It does have ammonia that can not be removed with even Prime, but I also think that my water may be high in silicates (but not sure).


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Well 5 days of running the UV sterilizer, using light for only 7 hours a day and the addition of a mystery snail and flying fox my tank seems to be better a lot clearer. Here is a iphone pic, looks a lot better in person.Oh yea and I also got rid of 2 YoYo Loaches. which were uprooting my plants and substrate


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Trix I bought a sunsun hw-402b which somes with a uv u can tuurn on and off. After doing a major tank overhaul switching to cannister my water was extremely cloudytrying to cycle. Uv on for 2 days and boom. Crystal water. Ill load up a pic tonight when I get home


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## wootlaws (Feb 25, 2011)

I just purchased Mini Green Killing Machine - 3 Watt Internal UV Sterilizer for my 20 gallon tank. Someone on this forum had suggested getting the 9W but it is made for 20gallon+ and cost more $$$. I was happy to see they had just released a new 3W one for smaller tanks, up to 20gallon, such as myself. Petco has the 9W one on sale for $25 but it's OOS and I have been waiting for 2-3 weeks now and can't wait any longer. I hope these stores carry the 3W replacement later on as it's hard to find. I will see how this works and keep you guys posted. Seems like the only place that sells it is through this link. The manufacturer seems to only ship to China only through their website.
Here's a link:
http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Green-Ki...62IQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1307748985&sr=8-4


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

trix my tank, HOB filter is gone. hence the huge hole in the back right corner. a lot of plants are out of wack. a lot of transplanting went on until i can get my lily pipes here..
but crystal water..


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

My water cleared about 24 hours after I unplugged the sterilizer but I did a water change last night after almost 3 weeks of no water changes and my tank is back to its old cloudy self :icon_conf....

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/139482-no-wc-clearness-wc-cloudy.html


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Bummer!!! i guess that means you need to PPS pro it and never change.....i wonder if you could do a overflow system that added like 1 gallon per day so you could regulate it better???


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

I might experiment by doing a wc with ro water and see if the same thing happens.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

good idea. keep us updated!


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