# Converting 75g from reef to Planted



## Rich Decatur (Jan 11, 2019)

Hey all,
Very new to the planted tank world and this forum.
As the title states, I'm converting my 75g reef over to a planted freshwater tank.
I currently have 2 kessil a360 WE tuna blues. Their color is 20K. so very blue. The last par reading i did was somewhere around 130 at the top and 80 at the bottom. 

I paid a ton for these lights and would prefer not to replace them. So the question is, can they grow high light plants? 

I'm hoping that this current setup will be overkill and extremely low maintenance. All of my reef stuff is being re-purposed for the planted tank.
30g sump, Apex monitoring or controlling:
auto water change, co2, lighting, feeding, in tank flow control, PH, ORP, temp, etc.
Any and all information is welcomed.


Thanks
-Rich


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## Tiger15 (Jan 7, 2018)

80 par at the substrate is plenty of light and you can grow medium to high light plants. Plants wiill do well in blue light, though somewhat unnatural to human pereption of a natural aquarium. Add some red plants to balance the color and who know it may turn out fantastic. Since the light intensity is high, you may need CO2 to catch up with the fast growth rate.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Rich Decatur said:


> I'm hoping that this current setup will be overkill and extremely low maintenance.


Another reefer converting to planted. We have had quite a few lately. Check the journal section and you will find them.

Your lights should be good for growing. I say "should" as I don't know of anyone here running lights at 20K. How they look will be another thing. Again, not much experience seeing plants under that spectrum.

I noticed you mentioned high light plants, CO2, and a generally what sounds like a high tech tank. Just a word of caution. High tech planted with extremely low maintenance might be an unrealistic goal. Sure you can automate much, but like reef, success depends much on maintenance and attention to detail. 

Have you spent any time in the journal section here? If not, it's a great way to find tanks with similar goals and aspirations. Many here are great about documenting their journey, and their experience might help you get off to a good start. 

So welcome to the board, and look forward to seeing what you come up with.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

IMO, you should probably get a plant spectrum light. Attention to detail is important and "hoping" that the plants do well with a 20K light will not guarantee success.

You could get a couple SBReef Planted fixtures for < $300 for the pair. Or a couple Beamswork fixtures for $150. I know it will be a "downgrade" but the result will be better.

Besides, I don't think you will like the way a 20K light looks on plants. IMO. I doubt they will look green with a marine light.


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## Rich Decatur (Jan 11, 2019)

Greggz said:


> I noticed you mentioned high light plants, CO2, and a generally what sounds like a high tech tank. Just a word of caution. High tech planted with extremely low maintenance might be an unrealistic goal. Sure you can automate much, but like reef, success depends much on maintenance and attention to detail.
> 
> Have you spent any time in the journal section here? If not, it's a great way to find tanks with similar goals and aspirations. Many here are great about documenting their journey, and their experience might help you get off to a good start.



I mentioned high light plants and co2 because i want to know what i can do. I may not go that route but it's nice to know what my options are from the start.
I am definitely tired of the maintenance involved with a reef tank. My mindset (though i may be wrong) is that even the most demanding of freshwater tanks, can't be as demanding as a reef tank.
Or simply a matter of, it is however complicated and troublesome as i make it.


I have not looked at the journals yet(i didnt even know they existed), but i will definitely go give them a look.
For fish i know i want rainbows and shrimp. aside from that, I'm undecided.



> You could get a couple SBReef Planted fixtures for < $300 for the pair. Or a couple Beamswork fixtures for $150. I know it will be a "downgrade" but the result will be better.


I have the availability to put an ATI 6 bulb HO on the tank. Way overkill at 300 par at the bottom of the tank, but i would really like to stick with LED for the cost saving side, and not spend any extra cash. What cash i do have is earmarked for livestock, co2 regulator parts if needed, and some decorations.


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

The plants should grow well with those lights. The spectrum really is trivial for plant growth and is more for our aesthetic preferences.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

swarley said:


> The plants should grow well with those lights. The spectrum really is trivial for plant growth and is more for our aesthetic preferences.



Guess I would have to disagree with the statement of "spectrum really is trivial for plant growth". To achieve optimum growth, spectrum is very important. 


"What the above means to the aquarium keeper is no artificial light; not LED or Metal Halide or any other is going to be equivalent to the energy of the Sun (tropics at noon is closer to 6500K at the surface of water). So using a 20,000K fluorescent, Metal Halide 20,000K, or LED setup that is 2/3 blue is likely NOT going to produce optimum results in a tank of approximately 20 inches or less of depth." Just a bit of information taken from https://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2012/03/pur-vs-par-in-aquarium-lighting.html











Another example of proper spectrum making a big difference. Also take from the above web site.

Some more very useful information https://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2015/09/lighting-requirments-of-planted.html


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## Tiger15 (Jan 7, 2018)

Immortal1 said:


> Guess I would have to disagree with the statement of "spectrum really is trivial for plant growth". To achieve optimum growth, spectrum is very important.
> 
> [/URL]


Here is a good read from plant guru Dennis Wong on light spectrum.

https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/rethinking-light-wavelength.html

According to Dennis, plants can grow in all spectrum within the visible range, including green light that used to be dismissed. Vendors selling plant lights have exaggerated the important of spectrum out of reality. Light intensity is far more important than light spectrum.

Your blue light can grow plants and no need to trash it unless you don’t like the color temperature. I think brown and red plants will look natural resembling kelp forest.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Well I tend to agree with @Immortal1 above.

IME, getting the spectrum right brings out the best colors in plants. And even more importantly is how they appear to your eye. 

And Dennis also says this on the same page "The main impact of spectrum on aquatic plants is stronger pigmentation for certain species when stronger red/blue light is used." And that is key. Yes, they will grow under any color of light, but how will they look?

Go find the most colorful display of plants in tanks on this site, and you will see a good deal of effort to get the spectrum right. 

A good example is using all 6500K daylight bulbs. Sure will grow plants, but to my eye usually looks washed out. Add some reds and blues and it comes to life.

Like much about this hobby, depends on your goals.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Agriculture experiments vary the ratio of blue and red LEDs and found that the ratio governed the kind of growth. 

Relatively strong red and blue fostered either stem growth or vegitation. This is an important area of research because scientists need to determine the most cost effective ways to grow food.

Its a reasonable assumption that light tailored for growth will be better than a "20k" light. I also suspect that "bad" light that is not favorable to the plant could swing the balance in favor of algae.

To the OP, I predict as soon as you set up your tank, you will realize you want another light simply for aesthetics.


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## Hendy8888 (Mar 6, 2008)

For reference:

All ATI aqua blue specials I believe


vs

A more planted tank bulb setup


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

That is what it looks like w/ a 10,000K/Actinic hybrid multichip..

Besides the "look" the plant morphology (some of them) can change a bit..
My Hygro grew w/ almost zero internode expansion..producing short bushy highly dissected leaved plants..










Pay part. attention to the hygro tops..bottoms were under more "normal" conditions..


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## Tiger15 (Jan 7, 2018)

Greggz said:


> Well I tend to agree with @Immortal1 above.
> 
> IME, getting the spectrum right brings out the best colors in plants. And even more importantly is how they appear to your eye.
> .


You may be agreeing with the wrong disagreement. Immortal is saying about the linkage between optimum plant growth and spectrum, not about optimum plant look and spectrum. Spectrum is very important on not just how plants look, but how fish, people and everything look. When I used 5000k FL, my fish and plants look wash out until I changed to LED. 

Spectrum may affect the growth pattern, fruiting and flowering of terrestrial plants as signal of season change, but not necessarily the growth rate. We grow aquatic plants not for flower or fruit, but vegetatively so even if the spectrum can affect growth pattern, it doesn’t matter. Aquatic plants are mostly shade plants grow under filtered light in the canopy and under water, so they are adapted to biased spectrum; for example, biased blue light in clear deep water or biased red light in shallow tannin rich water.


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

Rich Decatur said:


> Hey all,
> Very new to the planted tank world and this forum.
> As the title states, I'm converting my 75g reef over to a planted freshwater tank.
> I currently have 2 kessil a360 WE tuna blues. Their color is 20K. so very blue. The last par reading i did was somewhere around 130 at the top and 80 at the bottom.
> ...


Wanted to address this comment. I too am moving over from reef keeping. Though I will be keeping my reef tank running, I'm still going to be using an Apex, pressurized CO2 controlled via the Apex, Macros and micros added via a doser, etc. on the planted tank. It's considered "high tech" I suppose.

I just want to caution thinking that a planted tank will be easier or "low maintenance". It's just different, not necessarily easier. No doubt having the reef background will make the transition significantly easier, but keeping the tank in a presentable state isn't necessarily "easier". If you go into it with that thought process, I think you are setting yourself up for possible frustration.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

TheUnseenHand said:


> I just want to caution thinking that a planted tank will be easier or "low maintenance". It's just different, not necessarily easier. No doubt having the reef background will make the transition significantly easier, but keeping the tank in a presentable state isn't necessarily "easier". If you go into it with that thought process, I think you are setting yourself up for possible frustration.


Well said.

That's what I was getting to in a post above.

I have seen reefers come here before thinking this is going to be much easier. 

When I got started, I read a bit and thought how hard could this be? Some CO2, some ferts, some plants, some light..........instant aquatic garden.

Three years later and I am still learning and trying to get it right.


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## Rich Decatur (Jan 11, 2019)

Thanks to those who commented. Especially those that added research notes. I appreciate it.
I get generals on spectrum. I.E. blue for vegetative growth, reds for blooming, etc. Much in the same way that tomatoes grown under a hydroponics system. will use a blueish halide for initial growth, and then once the flowers are pollinated, you make the switch to HPS (red) for the blooming / fruiting stage.

Unseen and Greggz,
I will not lie, this was my initial thought. The "how hard can this be" mindset.
My goal for this tank really is more of along the lines of set it and forget it. So if that means low light plants, so be it. I really only want to be in this tank no more than once a quarter. I.E deep cleaning of the substrate, large 30 - 50% water changes, equipment cleanup, etc. 
Now i realize there will be other things that require me to be in the tank more often, like replanting uprooted plants, trimming, etc. Im fine with the quick stuff.
I had that going with the Reef tank actually. Nice growth on SPS, fish fat and healthy, etc. What killed that for me was some bubble algae i didnt catch in time. It set up fort knox in the tank and no matter how hard i tried, i couldnt get rid of it. 
The sadist in me was extremely happy to watch it die as it was converted to freshwater.

As stated above, i do have a 6 bulb ATI laying around. So i can change spectrum and intensity if need be. it is simply a matter of preferring LED for cost savings purposes. Though aside from the 6mo bulb changes, it's really a 44 watt difference if i use only 4 of the 6 in the ati. I also have 1000watt metal halide for the above mentioned Hydroponics... But um.. No.

So this may not be appropriate for this thread, and if its not, i'll post a new thread in another forum, but are there low light plants that cover 
Ground cover like moss/matts
Mid level plants that grow a 3-6 inches tall
and tall leggy plants that will take up the full top to bottom of the tank? (val comes to mind here)

Again, i appreciate EVERYONE dropping in their 2 cents and helping educate me.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Yes, there are slow growing, low light plants that'll match what you want to do. See here for one such list.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Rich Decatur said:


> So this may not be appropriate for this thread, and if its not, i'll post a new thread in another forum, but are there low light plants that cover
> Ground cover like moss/matts
> Mid level plants that grow a 3-6 inches tall
> and tall leggy plants that will take up the full top to bottom of the tank? (val comes to mind here)


Every plant has its own growth habit, tendencies, and maintenance requirements. Slow growing, low light plants may not be easiest because they are more prone to algae on the leaves. Some fast growing stems might be considered "easy" because you can top an replant and not have to worry about algae. Its impossible to generalize. IMO, "slow growing" does not necessarily mean easy, and fast growing does not mean difficult. 

As an example, val can be a good background plant, it is usually cited as an "easy" plant, but it's maintenance can be a PITA. In most tanks, it will outgrow everything by a factor of 2:1, and you will have leaves that reach the water line shading other plants. So by itself it is an "easy" plant, but in a high tech tank, constantly trimming it and thinning it out (by pulling up clusters) makes it more "difficult". Also it grows very dense which can create areas of low flow which will foster algae growth. 

I have been trying to keep an "easy" tank, and IMO what makes a plant easy is one that develops a good root system, grows quickly, large portions of the plant can be cut away and it will grow back quickly in an attractive fashion, without having to replant tops. Maintaining plants of this type take just a few minutes a week. You pinch off any overgrown or unattractive parts of the plant and throw away. That's it.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Rich Decatur said:


> Unseen and Greggz,
> I will not lie, this was my initial thought. The "how hard can this be" mindset.
> My goal for this tank really is more of along the lines of set it and forget it. So if that means low light plants, so be it. I really only want to be in this tank no more than once a quarter. I.E deep cleaning of the substrate, large 30 - 50% water changes, equipment cleanup, etc.


I'll be honest. If you want a set it and forget it tank, and major maintenance only once a quarter, you are probably getting into the wrong hobby. 

Even a low tech low light tank needs good regular maintenance. Algae loves dissolved organics, and hates an uber clean well kept tank. That's true whether high tech or low tech. 

And if you are going to stay very low tech, you might even think about getting some T8 or T5NO fixtures. With T5HO, six, four, or even two bulbs with good reflectors will probably be more light than you want to deal with on a 75G.

If I were you, I would spend some time finding journals of folks who have similar goals as you. Many are very good about documenting their journey, and it will give you a good idea of how they manage their tank, and what it takes to be successful.

Here is a link to a good one, and there are many more here on the board. 

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/541065-chayos00s-125g-tank-journal-updated-11-07-2018-a.html

Good luck with project, and I look forward to seeing how things develop.


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## ReeferRob (Dec 24, 2018)

Making the change from reef to planted isn't as easy as everyone makes it out to be. It's still a higher maintenance hobby with you needing to participate. You need to throw out all of the thinking you have on reef tanks and think the opposite for a planted tank. That nitrate factory filtration? That's exactly what you need in a planted tank. I'm not talking a swamp, but you need that to feed the plants. You'll need to learn plants just like corals. Lower light plants are like LPS corals and higher light are like Acros and other high light SPS corals. Some things are the same, but many are quite different. I have to watch myself because of having been an avid reefer since 1986. It's a good thing my wife is an avid reader because she's fixing my screw ups along the way.


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

Rich do you have the model Kessil that can use their spectrum controller. You just need to adjust the spectrum nothing exciting their. 
If you watch George Farmers channel he uses them on many tanks. 
https://www.youtube.com/user/gf225

You can adjust the 360’s to a 6500k light easy. 

I do all kinds of aquariums have been for 55 years now. I do Reef squad on R2R so I kind of know reef tanks too. 
I love going from planted to reef it gives me a more rounded view of the aquarium hobby.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

EdWiser said:


> You can adjust the 360’s to a 6500k light easy.



Well you certainly can make it whiter but doubt if you will get close to 6500k..
Tuna suns are different than tuna blues..


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## Rich Decatur (Jan 11, 2019)

Greggz, 
Thanks for the link to the journal. I read all but about 5 pages during the woodworking phases. 
That's quite a journey. I can see the similarities with reefkeeping, and the struggles. 

Ed, Good to see you. If you know anyone in Louisville that would want to trade their sun's for my blues, keep me in mind.

This is white as they will go.


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## jaz419 (Jan 21, 2018)

Sell them then buy the Tuna sun model?

I think the benefit of being able to view your aquascaping under a more natural spectrum for the kind of habitat you're trying to simulate is worth the extra money spent, if you can't make enough from selling them to cover the cost completely... Which may be possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Rich Decatur said:


> Greggz,
> Thanks for the link to the journal. I read all but about 5 pages during the woodworking phases.
> That's quite a journey. I can see the similarities with reefkeeping, and the struggles.


Your welcome, and a shout out to @chayos00 , as it's his journal I sent you to. 

And yes similarities, just of a different kind. The tricky part is no two tanks are the same, so there is no simple recipe. Every tank needs a good amount of trial and error. 

And agree with comment above about the lights. Seeing that picture I would guess that spectrum is not going to be the best for presenting a planted scape.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

@Greggz I see you are secretly sharing my journal... Thanks! LOL 

I do have mostly low growth plants in my tank and with lower lights and no CO2 they are very slow growth plants for sure. However I wanted them to fill out more, so in came CO2 and higher lighting and fertz. I don't have to get into my tank for a few weeks at a time, just depending upon what I'm liking about how it's growing or not and trim every so often. Luckily the lack of stems helps to keep me out of it more than in it like Greggz! Curious to also see how things go for you with your swap! Good luck!!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> @Greggz I see you are secretly sharing my journal... Thanks! LOL


It's no secret. You've got a unique mix of mostly slow growers in a high tech environment. Similar to what I think the OP is hoping to do. 

I've been following your thread for five years now, so I know all the steps it took to get where are now. And I've got to say, tank continues to improve over time and is looking better than ever.

Bump:


Rich Decatur said:


> For fish i know i want rainbows and shrimp. aside from that, I'm undecided.


I don't know how I missed the above. 

It would be great to see another Rainbow tank on the board. We have quite a few now. 

I've been keeping Bows for decades, so if I can help in any way, please don't hesitate to reach out.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Greggz said:


> It's no secret. You've got a unique mix of mostly slow growers in a high tech environment. Similar to what I think the OP is hoping to do.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been following your thread for five years now, so I know all the steps it took to get where are now. And I've got to say, tank continues to improve over time and is looking better than ever.


The internet isn't a secret?! LOL Just kidding. Man it's funny to think it's taken that long for me to get to this point and just over a year to have the tank running! 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Rich Decatur (Jan 11, 2019)

Ok, the more i do my research, the more im leaning on going back to the t5 setup. However, my dilemma now is i think my fixture is too big. I have an ATI 6 bulb fixture with dimmer.
I can only run this in 2 bulb (which i dont think is enough), 4 bulb (Which i think is too much) and 6 bulb, which i think is way too much.
I could dim, but even when i was running this over the reef, i was told over and over again never really dim t5 bulbs as it kills their life. So with that said, since this will be over freshwater plants, will the possibility of the bulbs degraded life be a factor? I'm seriously not trying to start an argument, simply curious.
Edit:
If dimming is no big deal, im thinking the 4 bank at 50-60%?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Rich Decatur said:


> Ok, the more i do my research, the more im leaning on going back to the t5 setup. However, my dilemma now is i think my fixture is too big. I have an ATI 6 bulb fixture with dimmer.
> I can only run this in 2 bulb (which i dont think is enough), 4 bulb (Which i think is too much) and 6 bulb, which i think is way too much.
> I could dim, but even when i was running this over the reef, i was told over and over again never really dim t5 bulbs as it kills their life. So with that said, since this will be over freshwater plants, will the possibility of the bulbs degraded life be a factor? I'm seriously not trying to start an argument, simply curious.
> Edit:
> If dimming is no big deal, im thinking the 4 bank at 50-60%?


If you are going to stay with lower light plants, 2 x T5HO is plenty, maybe even too much. 

Can you remove the reflectors? If so, 4 with no reflectors is an option. 

IMO, with a 6 bulb fixture, you have loads of options to do anything from low light to ultra high. Don't think the dimmer will even be necessary.


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## Rich Decatur (Jan 11, 2019)

> If you are going to stay with lower light plants, 2 x T5HO is plenty, maybe even too much.


I think I've decided to go full out. I've ordered a gla reg and tank, and it's running as we speak. (as an aside, im amazed at how quickly ph drops when it's running. But im used to the stability of a reef tank)
I do know i want some form of carpeting. So im assuming from what i've read so far that id be looking at 60 par + at the bottom. Though some of the ADA stuff i've done reading on says he's getting results in the 45 par range. But he's way more advanced aquarist than i am, so im sure that has alot to do with it.

The tank has now cycled and im in this holding pattern of adding ammonia to keep bacteria alive until i decide what to do (and for the driftwood to saturate and stop releasing tannins). Cart meet horse. 



My preliminary list of plants:
H.Polysperma sunset and or H.Difformis
Jungle Val
L.Repens
Swords
Lilaropsis
Goal, High growth to out compete algae while i learn the ropes.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Then I really don't think you need the dimmer.

Also keep in mind that bulbs differ quite a bit in color and PAR.

I did a test a while back on a bunch of bulbs. It might be worth a look.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1020497-greggz-120g-rainbow-fish-tank-tsp-measurement-test-1-20-2019-a-64.html#post10787369

With the right mix of color/PAR of bulbs, again you can to anyplace with that fixture. Since you are going higher tech, I'm guessing four bulbs might be a good place start. 

You can also adjust by rolling on 2 bulbs, then 4, the back to 2. Lot's of ways to get where you want to go.

I forget, do you have a PAR meter? If not, PM me.


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## Rich Decatur (Jan 11, 2019)

I have a seneye. Not sure how accurate it is though.
Edit:
Just read the postings on your par ratings. That helps a lot actually. It gives me a good starting reference.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Rich Decatur said:


> I have a seneye. Not sure how accurate it is though.


Accurate enough for our purposes. Some tests out there you can find against other meters, and it's right there with them. 

And keep in mind, much of what we do is based on relative value. Like many things in this hobby, relative value is more important than absolute values.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Greggz said:


> Accurate enough for our purposes. Some tests out there you can find against other meters, and it's right there with them.
> 
> And keep in mind, much of what we do is based on relative value. Like many things in this hobby, relative value is more important than absolute values.



https://www.seneye.com/light/par
do keep in mind some of its weaknesses w/ "oddball" spectrums.. i.e heavy in low red or high blue..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Rich Decatur said:


> Ok, the more i do my research, the more im leaning on going back to the t5 setup. However, my dilemma now is i think my fixture is too big. I have an ATI 6 bulb fixture with dimmer.
> I can only run this in 2 bulb (which i dont think is enough), 4 bulb (Which i think is too much) and 6 bulb, which i think is way too much.
> I could dim, but even when i was running this over the reef, i was told over and over again never really dim t5 bulbs as it kills their life. So with that said, since this will be over freshwater plants, will the possibility of the bulbs degraded life be a factor? I'm seriously not trying to start an argument, simply curious.
> Edit:
> If dimming is no big deal, im thinking the 4 bank at 50-60%?


The whole dimming killing bulbs thing has been debunked. It was more of the reef people worrying about the spectrum shift as bulbs decade but with planted tanks it's irrelevant because the very tiny shift occurs on the red spectrum which is what we want anyway. Dim away to your hearts content.


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

The T5 setup as a 4 bulb with a diffuser sheet may be a good way to go, at least if you already have it. 

Maybe post up an ad in the marketplace looking to trade? There's bound to be a planted guy going reef on here somewhere 

There's also DIY, if you're into that. Plenty of affordable simple options if you limit your scope.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Since you have a Sunpower fixture pretty much anything you buy at this point is going to be a downgrade in every way.


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