# OK what should my next step be?



## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Still having problems with brown hair algae with my tank and I just would like to bounce this off of you folks again to see if I am doing something wrong or if I should be changing something.

The tank now is 6+ weeks old (55 gallon)
Temp 78º 
2.36 wpg with new PC lights 10 hour photo period w/moonlight 
pH 6.8-7.0
GH 80 ppm 
KH 60-70 ppm 
Iron never reached a measurable level w/SeaChem kit 
CO2 20-25ppm (5 pound bottle - external reactor) 
Nitrite 0.0 mg/l (never have seen any level) 
Nitrate 5ppm 
Phosphate .05 mg/l 
Ammonia 0.0 mg/l 
Water Changes 40% weekly

Every night I come home to vacuuming out this junk via a baster. For the last two weeks the tanks has reached the 5 ppm of NO3. I started adding very little Plantex without any change to the algae. I was adding 2 ml of a solution of 2 tbsp to 500mL water. The other night I upped that to 4 mL and I noticed the algae was worse the next night. So should I discontinue all Plantex until this stuff is gone? Should I up the phosphates to a target 1 ppm (that scares me for the algae)

I have 6 otos 2 rubber lipped plecos 1 Juli. No LFS have and SAE but I found one store that has them for $6.99 ea. Seems high to me but I am thinking of getting two tonight.

What about CO2, with a new tank should I keep it more toward 10 or up toward 20?

At the risk of getting yelled at again for not being patient I ask this again. I really am patient and do not expect this tank to be like many web pictures but on the other hand I don’t want to blindly go down a bad path patiently.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

***mumbling inaudibly... "patience"***

Not sure about the plantex stuff, since I don't use it. If Phosphate levels are really 0.05ppm (my testkit does not measure levels that low) you might want to up it to 0.5 ppm.

If you give it another one or two months, I'd bet you get rid of them.


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> ***mumbling inaudibly... "patience"***
> 
> If Phosphate levels are really 0.05ppm (my testkit does not measure levels that low) you might want to up it to 0.5 ppm.


I am using a Seachem and it is very clear at that low levels. I also tested the kit against a supplied test sample and it was accurate.

What do you use for micro's?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I think then you should up the levels to 0.5 ppm, to help plants to outcompete the algae.

For micros, I use Flourish and Flourish Iron, small amounts, once or twice a week.


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> I think then you should up the levels to 0.5 ppm, to help plants to outcompete the algae.
> 
> For micros, I use Flourish and Flourish Iron, small amounts, once or twice a week.


Should I stop my micros with Plantex all together then or go back to low doses? Switch to Flourish maybe?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I wouldn't stop them entirely. Maybe reduce the amounts, and observe the plants for any sign of deficiencies.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

No one would ever dream of yelling at you over this TIU! We can all sympathize with what you are going through, as this is a real test of patience! :wink: 

Besides waiting it out, the only advice I can give you is to try to move away from the Seachem Nitrogen and Phosphate, and look into some of the raw chemicals most of us are using. While it may seem intimidating, believe me it isn't. Those chemicals will be less expensive, and much easier to dose effectively and accurately!

Hang in there! We are all with you! :wink: 

Mike


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I third the patience plan. I just went through some brown algae in my new tank. Waited it out.. it's all gone now, well gone enough that it no longer bothers me.

I also second the getting raw chemicals for dosing, much easier and a heck of a lot cheaper. Try gregwatson.com very good service from greg.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

TeeItUp said:


> Still having problems with brown hair algae with my tank and I just would like to bounce this off of you folks again to see if I am doing something wrong or if I should be changing something.
> 
> pH 6.8-7.0
> KH 60-70 ppm
> ...


How did you calculate 20-25ppm CO2? According to your pH and KH you have a range of 10ppm to a max of 19ppm. Get your CO2 up. 

I'm with wasser, get your phosphates up at least to 0.5ppm. I would also stop the traces temporarily. Try dosing K since it is involved in MANY biological process - kinda like fule for the fire, and the objective is to let our plants out-compete algae. You are not dosing iron, right?


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Momotaro said:


> Besides waiting it out, the only advice I can give you is to try to move away from the Seachem Nitrogen and Phosphate, and look into some of the raw chemicals most of us are using.
> Mike


I never said I was using that. I am using raw chemicals from Greg Watson. The discussions was about the phosphate test kit reading that low and I said I was using a Saechem (Kit).


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Rolo said:


> [
> How did you calculate 20-25ppm CO2? According to your pH and KH you have a range of 10ppm to a max of 19ppm. Get your CO2 up.
> 
> I'm with wasser, get your phosphates up at least to 0.5ppm. I would also stop the traces temporarily. Try dosing K since it is involved in MANY biological process - kinda like fule for the fire, and the objective is to let our plants out-compete algae. You are not dosing iron, right?


I was giving ranges that I have had the levels at during this phase. pH has been as low as 6.4 but not for very long. As well as KH drops down below 60 as I have soft water. I have to add BS from time to time.


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Rolo said:


> Try dosing K since it is involved in MANY biological process - kinda like fule for the fire, and the objective is to let our plants out-compete algae. You are not dosing iron, right?


I dose equal parts in my base mixture with KH2PO4 and KNO3.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

TeeItUp said:


> I was giving ranges that I have had the levels at during this phase. pH has been as low as 6.4 but not for very long. As well as KH drops down below 60 as I have soft water. I have to add BS from time to time.


Add a smigin of calcium to your water so you don't have to keep adding BS to the tank to keep the KH up. The Kent liquid Ca product works for this.


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

SCMurphy said:


> Add a smigin of calcium to your water so you don't have to keep adding BS to the tank to keep the KH up. The Kent liquid Ca product works for this.


Thanks, will that still be added after water changes as well?


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I misunderstood!  

Mike


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Tee,
Is it brown algae or hair algae or both? My brown algae has totally gone now. I gave cleaning them every other day and suddenly they're gone. I guess patient is the key for that one.


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

ninoboy said:


> Tee,
> Is it brown algae or hair algae or both? My brown algae has totally gone now. I gave cleaning them every other day and suddenly they're gone. I guess patient is the key for that one.


Maybe both but the same color. Some fuzz but mostly long strings that I can siphon off fairly easy with a turkey baster. Been doing it every day because I am concerned that it is choking the plants. No end in sight yet and I see nothing but an increase in it. 

With 2.36 wpg what should my target CO2 be? Been in the 16 ppm range. When I get over 20 the fish seem stressed.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

[quote="TeeItUp
I dose equal parts in my base mixture with KH2PO4 and KNO3.[/quote]

Are you using a stock PMDD solution with all the chemicals in it? Rather than dosing macros individually? Also if your dosing equal parts of those two chemicals your PO4 is definately going to be high, no? I could just be misreading it tough.

I think your CO2 should be up around 20-25. What signs of stress are you fish showing? Gasping for air and whatnot?


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Vinlo said:


> TeeItUp said:
> 
> 
> > I dose equal parts in my base mixture with KH2PO4 and KNO3.
> ...


I am not dosing all mixed like the PMDD but individual dosing except the NO3. From an email I received from Greg Watson he stated that he mixes equal KH2PO4 and KNO3 to make up that solution then doses based on the KNO3. Do you think that might have something to do with it then? I have plenty of chemicals I could make up a new batch of KNO3 and skip the KH2PO4 all together. Sounds like many have eliminated this anyway. Should I do like 2-3 times a week water changes to purge it from the water then or stay with the weekly water changes?

I have Rainbow fish and from some literature that I have says to not let them go over 20 ppm of CO2. I am at work so I don't have it but it suggested counting their breaths (hard to do btw) but they do look like they are breathing harder.

Help me understand this then, CO2 in the 20-25 ppm, that will benefit the plants more than the algae?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

TeeItUp said:


> From an email I received from Greg Watson he stated that he mixes equal KH2PO4 and KNO3 to make up that solution then doses based on the KNO3. Do you think that might have something to do with it then?


Are you certain it wasn't K2SO4 and KNO3?? I think you need a MUCH smaller amount of KH2PO4, and if you dose it in the same amount as KNO3 your PO4 levels should be outrageous. I am confused...


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

> I am not dosing all mixed like the PMDD but individual dosing except the NO3. From an email I received from Greg Watson he stated that he mixes equal KH2PO4 and KNO3 to make up that solution then doses based on the KNO3. Do you think that might have something to do with it then? I have plenty of chemicals I could make up a new batch of KNO3 and skip the KH2PO4 all together. Sounds like many have eliminated this anyway. Should I do like 2-3 times a week water changes to purge it from the water then or stay with the weekly water changes?
> 
> I have Rainbow fish and from some literature that I have says to not let them go over 20 ppm of CO2. I am at work so I don't have it but it suggested counting their breaths (hard to do btw) but they do look like they are breathing harder.
> 
> Help me understand this then, CO2 in the 20-25 ppm, that will benefit the plants more than the algae?


So if you want 5ppm of Nitrates you would dose KNO3 to 5ppm (~1/4tsp) and you also dose a 1/4tsp of KH2PO4 (realising it is in a solution of equal parts - but that is the jist of it right)? That would give you 5ppm of PO4 which probably isn't the best thing. I would dose everything separately. Dose KNO3 (for NO3 - Nitrates) dry to whatever level you need. Dose KH2PO4 (for PO4 - Phosphate) dry to .5-1ppm and then add Potassium sulfate (for K - Potassium) to bring that up to 20ppm (I don't really dose K any more - I found that between the other two I am dosing enough K). Then dose your micros and Fe on top of that. Also, by dry I meant.. just mix what you need in a small cup until dissolved and then add it to the tank - no bottles of solutions. Could Greg have meant K2SO4 (potassium sulfate for added K)? That would make a little more sense.

I just started (4-5 weeks ago) a 55g with Rainbows (Bosemani, Turquoise and 'Austrailian') and I keep my CO2 around 20-25ppm and don't seem to see any problems.. in fact their colours are much better than when I bought them. Never had rainbows before so I cannot judge their activity patterns.

CO2 should help mainly plants.. when everything the plant need is there to grow (1. Lighting 2. CO2 3. Nutrients) they will thrive and starve out the algae.

I hope that both makes sense and helps.

Edit: Wasser beat me to it.. much shorter less drawn out answer too! :lol:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

But yours is much more polite and nice to read!


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Are you certain it wasn't K2SO4 and KNO3?? I think you need a MUCH smaller amount of KH2PO4, and if you dose it in the same amount as KNO3 your PO4 levels should be outrageous. I am confused...


Going by memory and I am no chemist so to be sure I will have to wait until tonight to be sure but I believe I was wrong I meant Potassium sulfate with the Potassium Nitrate. Just got the symbol wrong. Should I not mix those together then?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Those two should be alright to mix in like quantities.


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

Vinlo said:


> I just started (4-5 weeks ago) a 55g with Rainbows (Bosemani, Turquoise and 'Austrailian') and I keep my CO2 around 20-25ppm and don't seem to see any problems.. in fact their colours are much better than when I bought them. Never had rainbows before so I cannot judge their activity patterns.


Vinlo how much lighting do you have? I have 2x65 Coralife compact fluorescents.
I will take the CO2 back up then.


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## TeeItUp (Mar 18, 2004)

I have ordered another Phosphate test kit to verify Phosphate readings. I added some mixed solution to my test after I took a reading and the color did not change. That had me concerned so a second kit would make me feel better.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I have ~3wpg (maybe more?) with a fairly decent reflector (DIY). I run ODNO flurorescent. 4 - 36" bulbs ODed 2x each. No major algae to speak of.. yet.. hehe.


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