# 2.5g Brackish Paludarium/Aquarium? Thoughts, Ideas?



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Hello all!

I got an idea in my head, and everything I am reading says that it is possible. What is it you ask? A 2.5g brackish paludarium. My plans would be as follows.

*Equipment*

*Tank*: AGA 2.5g
*Filter*: Tom Internal - +-45HPH
*Heater*: Hydor Nano 7.5w - Buried under substrate
*Lighting*: Reading lamp w/13w CF
*Substrate*: Sand
*Flora*: Manrgrove(?), anything I can find
*Fauna*: Fiddler crab(?), none
*Decor'*: Driftwood, rocks

Far fetched I know. I just want to see what you guys think.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Ooh brackish tanks. I really don't know any plants that work specifically in brackish water other than mangroves, which are extremely hardy if given the right conditions. The most fun part of brackish tanks are the fish, which are:
mudskippers
archerfish
monos
scats
puffers
anableps
a bunch of crabs
just a few I remember. None would fit in a 2.5 gallon though. Aren't fiddlers messy?


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

Archer fish are fun to have. It's more fun if you have a Riparium type scape with tall plants stretching well above the water. Throw in a few small crickets and watch the Archer fish shoots at it. Will take several tries to place the cricket in place.

There's a guy in Florida on ebay that sells Mangrove plants that looks great. He goes by the ebay name "fabnlan"


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I agree that it would cool to consider this in a 75G+ tank so that you might keep some of those cool fish. A setup with _Anableps_ would be awesome.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

You really would be better off with a larger tank for this. At least if you want to put any livestock in there. I've had good luck with vals, dwarf sag., and java ferns in my brackish 50g. They all grew well with a s.g. of 0.004. The trick is to raise the s.g. really slowly.


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

sounds like an interesting idea if you can find a good brackish inhabitant, like nerites. de-rim the AGA tank to make it look more sleek.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Ooh brackish tanks. I really don't know any plants that work specifically in brackish water other than mangroves, which are extremely hardy if given the right conditions. The most fun part of brackish tanks are the fish, which are:
> mudskippers
> archerfish
> monos
> ...


That is what I was thinking: No fauna. I wasn't sure about the fiddlers. I had heard that they where messy, but again, was not sure.



Jaggedfury said:


> Archer fish are fun to have. It's more fun if you have a Riparium type scape with tall plants stretching well above the water. Throw in a few small crickets and watch the Archer fish shoots at it. Will take several tries to place the cricket in place.
> 
> There's a guy in Florida on ebay that sells Mangrove plants that looks great. He goes by the ebay name "fabnlan"


I would love to get a tank big enough for some archers, but The biggest tank I can get is a 40g, and I am alread out of room. Thanks for the info on the mangroves! I will look into it.



hydrophyte said:


> I agree that it would cool to consider this in a 75G+ tank so that you might keep some of those cool fish. A setup with _Anableps_ would be awesome.


I really, really wish I had the cash and space for a large tank, but I do not. I just looked at some pictures of _Anableps_, they are so cool! They look a whole lot like a mix between livebearers and eels. 




oldpunk78 said:


> You really would be better off with a larger tank for this. At least if you want to put any livestock in there. I've had good luck with vals, dwarf sag., and java ferns in my brackish 50g. They all grew well with a s.g. of 0.004. The trick is to raise the s.g. really slowly.


I know that a bigger tank is better, but again, space and cash is lacking. So I will have no fauna, only plants. Thanks for the tip on the Salinity level!



Newman said:


> sounds like an interesting idea if you can find a good brackish inhabitant, like nerites. de-rim the AGA tank to make it look more sleek.


Nerites are a good idea. I will look into that. I do not think I will de-rim this setup. Only because I lack the skill, and do not like the unfinished look it gives AGA tanks.

Thanks for all the comments guys! I will keep looking stuff up.


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## mikeb210 (Oct 17, 2007)

Derimming a tank requires very little skill, just a box cutter and a lot of patience. I cracked my first attempt but I think Coors Light is more to blame for that than I 

There are some live bearers which might do alright in there, though the babies will never survive. Mollies, guppies and gambusia all can handle the salinity. Maybe a pair of those?

It is still a small tank, so you'd probably be better off with just plants. Java fern and moss and vals should do well in there and keep things fairly low tech/cost as well. Best of luck, keep us posted on what happens.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

I'd go with the 40 gal breeder tank, that'd make a great terrarium (half land half water) . I had a 70 gallon terrarium with a mudskipper, anablep, and an archerfish, and some scats.


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

JakeJ said:


> I do not like the unfinished look it gives AGA tanks.


If done correctly and cleanly, it gives the same exact look of an ADA rimless tank. makes it look very nice.

IMO 2.5 gals is too small for any sort of livebearer aside from maybe one gambusia individual. though w/o a top that one will jump. Also of course if you go with nerites (coronas are the best size for a tank like this) you have to be vigilant about them and check constantly for any that have crawled out.

If you get the brackish part of the setup correct, you might be able to breed the nerites right in the tank. Though dont get me wrong, its very annoying to do in captivity.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

mikeb210 said:


> Derimming a tank requires very little skill, just a box cutter and a lot of patience. I cracked my first attempt but I think Coors Light is more to blame for that than I
> 
> There are some live bearers which might do alright in there, though the babies will never survive. Mollies, guppies and gambusia all can handle the salinity. Maybe a pair of those?
> 
> It is still a small tank, so you'd probably be better off with just plants. Java fern and moss and vals should do well in there and keep things fairly low tech/cost as well. Best of luck, keep us posted on what happens.


lol. Alchahol will do that!

Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into 'em!



Senior Shrimpo said:


> I'd go with the 40 gal breeder tank, that'd make a great terrarium (half land half water) . I had a 70 gallon terrarium with a mudskipper, anablep, and an archerfish, and some scats.


I would go with a bigger tank as well, but again, I do not have the space and cash. Do you have a journal of you 70g? It sounds awesome.



Newman said:


> If done correctly and cleanly, it gives the same exact look of an ADA rimless tank. makes it look very nice.
> 
> IMO 2.5 gals is too small for any sort of livebearer aside from maybe one gambusia individual. though w/o a top that one will jump. Also of course if you go with nerites (coronas are the best size for a tank like this) you have to be vigilant about them and check constantly for any that have crawled out.
> 
> If you get the brackish part of the setup correct, you might be able to breed the nerites right in the tank. Though dont get me wrong, its very annoying to do in captivity.


If I do go rimless, I think I will spend the extra cash on a Mr. Aqua tank or something similar. 

I agree that less then 2.5g is to small for livebearers. Though, after talking with a invertabrate dude, he suggested some Ghost shrimps. Would they be suitable?

Thanks for the nerite suggestions! Guess what I will be looking up soon... roud:



So, what if I did ghost shrimps instead of fishes and snails?


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Alas, this was when I was a newbie, before even learning about planted tanks. Didn't have a camera, and took all my pictures on my cell phone. After I tore the tank down, my phone got wiped. And it really wasn't that great either, I'd worked with mainly freshwater so brackish was hard to handle and it killed off my fish. 

Good luck on the tank, it might be more fun to just make a little island with a mangrove in the center and put it in the window. They grow great, there everywhere in Florida.

Ghost shrimp are okay, (I think they can live in brackish, but so can amanos if I'm not mistaken? someone correct me on this because a brackish amano tank would be way cool) but why not be adventurous? Try red cherries! They aren't brackish... but they're cheap and they'd live in a 2.5 gallon tank. They're fun too, and people get great deals here on the sns. If I'm not wrong, amanos need salt in their water for their young, and they and red cherries are incredibly hardy.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Alas, this was when I was a newbie, before even learning about planted tanks. Didn't have a camera, and took all my pictures on my cell phone. After I tore the tank down, my phone got wiped. And it really wasn't that great either, I'd worked with mainly freshwater so brackish was hard to handle and it killed off my fish.
> 
> Good luck on the tank, it might be more fun to just make a little island with a mangrove in the center and put it in the window. They grow great, there everywhere in Florida.
> 
> Ghost shrimp are okay, (I think they can live in brackish, but so can amanos if I'm not mistaken? someone correct me on this because a brackish amano tank would be way cool) but why not be adventurous? Try red cherries! They aren't brackish... but they're cheap and they'd live in a 2.5 gallon tank. They're fun too, and people get great deals here on the sns. If I'm not wrong, amanos need salt in their water for their young, and they and red cherries are incredibly hardy.


Bummer! It sounded so cool!

I like the idea with the mangrove bowl. If I can get more then one, I may have to try that out!

You are right, both ghosts are amanos are brackish. I can get ghosts for real cheap at my Petsmart. ($0.20 a pop!) So I will try them first. Later I may try the CRS and Amonos. 

Thanks for the comment!:bounce:


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

ghost and amanos would be interesting brackish choices.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

JakeJ said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I got an idea in my head, and everything I am reading says that it is possible. What is it you ask? A 2.5g brackish paludarium. My plans would be as follows.
> 
> ...


For that size, I recommend Opae Ula shrimp. they live in brackish water, they are less than 1'', hardy, looks great and can live more than 20 years with proper care.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

+1^^^


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys! I will look into it.

Here are some pictures that I took last night of the tank:










Don't you just love my African guard statue!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Wait, if the tank only houses ghosts shrimps (and maybe a nerite) I could get by without a heater, right?


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

depends on the lowest temps your room with the tank reaches. it cant be too cold, but if its in the low 70s youre ok. to low 80s.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Newman said:


> depends on the lowest temps your room with the tank reaches. it cant be too cold, but if its in the low 70s youre ok. to low 80s.


 
I guess I will get a heater then! :bounce:

In the winter, my house gets to about 60 at night... :thumbsdow


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

yes heater for sure. if you want to keep it out of the tank, you can try using one of those terrarium heaters and place it under your tank and hide it.


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## HX67 (Jul 15, 2010)

Hi, JakeJ.

I'm trying to fiddle with plants in my brackish mudskipper setup. I'm always interested in hearing about any and all success with plants in brackish water.

Tropica used to have a great search page, in which you could choose "accepts brackish" onto the specs. The list it produced was this:

Aponogeton crispus
Bacopa monnieri
Cladophora aegagrophila
Crinum calamistratum
Crinum natans
Crinum thaianum
Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya'
Glossostigma elatinoides
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
Microsorum pteropus 'Narrow'
Nymphaea lotus (zenkeri)
Samolus valerandi
Taxiphyllum barbieri (Vesicularia)

I've got Neritina turrita in my tank (0.002 salinity at the moment). They are doing great.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Newman said:


> yes heater for sure. if you want to keep it out of the tank, you can try using one of those terrarium heaters and place it under your tank and hide it.


Huh, that would be cool. I was thinking of getting a Hydor flat heater that I could bury under the substrate. Would the terrarium heater hurt the stand at all?



HX67 said:


> Hi, JakeJ.
> 
> I'm trying to fiddle with plants in my brackish mudskipper setup. I'm always interested in hearing about any and all success with plants in brackish water.
> 
> ...


That is a great plant list HX67! Thanks! Quick qestion for you, do you have a suggested salt mix for you tanks? I do not wanna spend that much cash, but with the tank being so small I doubt the thing will take much salt... at all. :thumbsup:


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## HX67 (Jul 15, 2010)

I envy you for the size of yours.

I'm running a mudskipper tank with 40 gallons and a brackish 250 g tank.
Not that salt consumption with these would match a reef tank, but pricy nonetheless.
The skippers are _Periophthalmodon septemradiatus_, and they come from 0,000 - 0,003 salinity in the wild, so I'm optimistic about growing plants in their tank. As soon as I get over some algae issues...
The other tank is kept at 0,006-0,010 and I'm pretty sure there is no way a plant can cope with it. I just removed the last mangrove from it.

I buy salt in 25 kg buckets, and can't really tell if there's any difference in makes. The latest seems to be Reef Crystal.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

HX67 said:


> I envy you for the size of yours.
> 
> I'm running a mudskipper tank with 40 gallons and a brackish 250 g tank.
> Not that salt consumption with these would match a reef tank, but pricy nonetheless.
> ...


Thanks for the info man! It is much appreciated!


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## HX67 (Jul 15, 2010)

Don't mention it. I'm so happy to find someone giving a shot at brackish and plants. I'm gonna follow your steps very closely.

Neritina turrita is a great snail for your setup, and I can see your tank as a great platform for experimenting with the true Amano shrimp (_Caridina multidentata_) breeding, too!


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

reef crystals arent needed lol youre not reefing, just get the regular IO salt. its cheaper and is the same aside from elevated calcium and things that you shouldnt care about.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

HX67 said:


> Don't mention it. I'm so happy to find someone giving a shot at brackish and plants. I'm gonna follow your steps very closely.
> 
> Neritina turrita is a great snail for your setup, and I can see your tank as a great platform for experimenting with the true Amano shrimp (_Caridina multidentata_) breeding, too!


roud: I will probably be able to get this baby setup sometime in Febuary. Feel free to "butt in" and tell me to change things!



Newman said:


> reef crystals arent needed lol youre not reefing, just get the regular IO salt. its cheaper and is the same aside from elevated calcium and things that you shouldnt care about.


Pardon my noobness, but what does IO stand for? I think it will mostly come down to what my LFS carries though... Thanks for all the help guys!


Do you guys think adding a little bit of live rock would be OK?
Jake


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

live rock is for SW setups, anything in it will pro die in brackish. im not 100% on that though. something might be able to survive but it just doesnt seem worth it.

IO is instant ocean brand sea salt. its the brand that makes reef crystals. RC is their reef salt. they also make regular sea salt mix for normal SW setups, use that and save some money.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Newman said:


> live rock is for SW setups, anything in it will pro die in brackish. im not 100% on that though. something might be able to survive but it just doesnt seem worth it.
> 
> IO is instant ocean brand sea salt. its the brand that makes reef crystals. RC is their reef salt. they also make regular sea salt mix for normal SW setups, use that and save some money.


I was not 100% sure either. I will have to look into it more.

Ah, Instant Ocean makes sense. I think my local Petco has some. I'll make sure to pick some up! Thanks much Newman! :icon_bigg


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Can't wait


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Caton said:


> Can't wait


Neither can I!


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## telephasic (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm surprised no one mentioned bumblebee gobies. Easy to find, cheap, and work well in low-salinity brackish (although they seem to not live in brackish water in the wild). I'd say you can put a pair safely into a tank of that size. Might even be able to keep it lidless...when I had BBGs they didn't show much interest in jumping.


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

maybe those are small enough. though they do grow more than an inch and i think 1 of them at most is good for a 2.5. you dont want to overload a tank that you're just learning how to run.


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## HX67 (Jul 15, 2010)

telephasic said:


> I'm surprised no one mentioned bumblebee gobies. Easy to find, cheap, and work well in low-salinity brackish (although they seem to not live in brackish water in the wild). I'd say you can put a pair safely into a tank of that size.


Just my opinion, but 2,5 gals is too small for fish.
Even for slow swimmers like BBG's.


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## telephasic (Sep 29, 2009)

HX67 said:


> Just my opinion, but 2,5 gals is too small for fish.
> Even for slow swimmers like BBG's.


Eh, Neale Monks book on Brackish-water fish said as many as ten can be kept in a five gallon. I wouldn't do that, but he's a man who knows his stuff. IIRC, he said if you keep the tank unheated, they do fine and you can feed them as infrequently as once a week, which really cuts down on waste.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

telephasic said:


> if you keep the tank unheated, they do fine and you can feed them as infrequently as once a week, which really cuts down on waste.


I'm such a soft touch. I can't even walk by the treat bag without giving one to my dog (and he KNOWS it). I could never skip feeding my fish for a week.


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## karatekid14 (Jan 16, 2011)

I tried the same thing in a 5 gal, and it was not brackish, and failed miserably. I had a little stream I made out of plexiglass and had the land and water separated by plexiglass. I siliconed everywhere and it still leaked I took the whole thing apart four times. There wasn't even enough water for animals (only 1.5 gal) so be carful of what you are getting into. I hope it works better for you than it did for me!


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## HX67 (Jul 15, 2010)

telephasic said:


> Eh, Neale Monks book on Brackish-water fish said as many as ten can be kept in a five gallon. I wouldn't do that, but he's a man who knows his stuff. IIRC, he said if you keep the tank unheated, they do fine and you can feed them as infrequently as once a week, which really cuts down on waste.


I love the book and I have a lot of respect for Monk.

But I'd never do that either.
In a five gal tank there's five gallons of water.
In a 2,5 gal paludarium there's maybe 1, probably much less?


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

2 gals is he makes it into an aquarium. still fish arent a good choice here.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

I think your best bet is going ti have to be a brackish riparium, something that i would like to try myself.


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