# EMERGENCY! Fish struggling to breathe



## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Hi all,

Woke up this morning and first thing I noticed was my pleco upside down. When I got close to him he was still breathing, fat belly and colored normal. I then noticed all my rams and other fish were strangely at the top in a position begging for oxygen. Not sure exactly what happened over night.

*Here what I do know:*
- Did not loose power overnight
- Filtration/heater running perfectly fine
- I did a normal 25% water change + added my fertilizers yesterday morning

*Water parameters:*
- 78 F
- pH 7.0
- Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate @ 0

*Filtration:*
Magnaflow 360 Canister Filter up to 100 gallons (mine is 55 gallon) — I’m running *without* carbon. I heard it’s better for fertilizers I use on my plants. Not sure if this could be the culprit. Should I re-add carbon?

*Fertilizers:*
API Leafzone (twice a week)
API Co2 Booster (daily dose) I haven't dosed today yet
API Plant Tabs (1 month)

*Livestock:*
1 - Angel Fish
1 - German Gold Ram 
1 - German Blue Ram
1 - Ghost Shrimp
1 - Blue Phantom Pleco
1 - Snowball Pleco
1 - Julii Corydora
2 - Bristlenose Plecos
2 - Panda Corydoras
2 - Amano Shrimps
3 - Sterbia Corydoras
7 - Electric Blue Rams
10 - Otocinclus Catfish
11 - Gold & Yellow Platties
13 - Male Cherry Barbs
Total: 60

As of now I have moved my Blue Phantom Pleco to my hospital tank. He’s doing well there, he’s sucking on the glass so he’s gonna have a chance (fingers-crossed) as far as my other fish I’m keeping an eye on but hopefully with your help I can diagnose what's wrong and treat immediately.




























Thank you all


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## MChambers (May 26, 2009)

Do an immediate large water change. I don't think carbon is the problem, but adding some wouldn't hurt.


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## CCShrimp (Apr 13, 2017)

Are you running co2?

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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

First thing's first, I would immediately get some O2 in the water. Drop the water level to get more surface agitation or add a bubbler.

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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

Did you overfill your tank with the water change yesterday? If the surface of the water is in contact with your lid gas exchange (that adds O2 to the water) is dangerously reduced. 

What about CO2 could it have been left on overnight? This can suffocate fish at night when the plants aren't using it and releasing O2. 

Something is causing the dissolved oxygen levels to crash (at least that's my best guess). I would do a big water change- maybe 50% and turn off CO2 until the fish look like they're breathing comfortably. 


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

I would do an immediate water change. Try and prepare the water to match the tank water as closely as you can to reduce the stress. I see no reason for this occurrence but most likely it's a contaminant in the water hence the water change(s). Depending on the severity you may want to move the inhabitants to your hospital tank until you figure it out.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

I'm not running a Co2 system, only Co2 booster. As of now I have dropped the water levels of my tank below the filter head to get some oxygen.
@kyle3: I dont have a lid on my tank so it should be open air

here are some pic updates



















Pleco when I moved him to Hospital tank










5 minutes later....









@Zorfox: I'm a little concerned if I move more fish to my 10 G hospital it will overcrowd as well and could then have an oxygen problem there too?


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## Colin Wrexham (Mar 24, 2017)

It does sound like a lack of oxygen in there. May not have been enough water movement on the surface to release co2. 

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## bigbadjon (Aug 6, 2015)

Running an air stone is cheap insurance in case you o2 levels dip or the filter breaks.


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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

Lowering the water level and getting some increased surface agitation is a good start.

*Have you done the recommended large water change? That will be the most important remedy.* It is possible they are having breathing trouble because of something else, besides low O2, whatever it is, diluting it is the only thing that will improve the situation. 

After the water change, you might think about adding some carbon temporarily to your filter media, because if there is a water contaminate the carbon will help. But honestly if this is a contamination issue, the way your fish are acting- it's *a lot* and you'll exhaust the carbon quickly, so doing the water change first is important. (carbon will take your fertilizers out of the water, so you only want to use it when you need a "clean slate" for your water parameters, I think this is one of those times)

You also have a pretty heavy bioload in there (a lot of fish pooping and breathing) so that makes it easier for you to have ammonia spikes and more unusually problems with lack of oxygen. With that many fish I would recommend 50% water changes every week.

Your tank doesn't look like it's been running very long. How long has it been setup? You should not have 0 nitrates with a bioload as large as yours, if your tank is fully cycled. Are you using a liquid test kit or test strips? I'm a little dubious about the accuracy of those test results.

How long has it been since you added new inhabitants? 

If there is an ammonia spike that you haven't detected with your test kit, this would easily be causing your fish to gasp at the surface. (it burns their gills) In which case a large water change is again the answer.

As for fertalizing and CO2, wow, trying to keep up with carbon demands with a glutaraldehyde product like API CO2 Booster or Excel is a tall (and expensive) order. Without abundant amounts of available CO2 you don't need to be fertilizing IMO, you'll end up feeding algae 

I think you should consider boosting your biological filter either by buying a product like Seachem Stability or getting some filter media from another tank that is very mature and has a health biological filter. If you have friend with such a tank that would work, or often a LFS will sell you some of theirs.

Oh I forgot to mention - you right! There is most certainly not enough room for everyone in your hospital tank! 

I'll try to give you more advice once you've had a chance to respond to this, but do that water change!!! (If you haven't already)

good luck, I hope hope you don't loose anyone!


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## PierreSchoon (Feb 22, 2017)

Did you use a water conditioner before or during the water change?

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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Yes, a 10 gallon is too small for your stock. I had no idea of the size. 

Kyle, That's good advise. Although, I have to comment on the activated carbon. It doesn't remove any significant amount of fertilizers. It can remove some iron (mostly ferric iron) and a few traces (most are not essential anyway). The fertilizers it does remove are easily replaced.


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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

Zorfox said:


> I have to comment on the activated carbon. It doesn't remove any significant amount of fertilizers. It can remove some iron (mostly ferric iron) and a few traces (most are not essential anyway). The fertilizers it does remove are easily replaced.


Fair point, I was trying not to get out "into the weeds" on non-essential details, but you're very right


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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

PierreSchoon said:


> Did you use a water conditioner before or during the water change?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


This a good question, I presumed that you are using one . . . ?


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## PierreSchoon (Feb 22, 2017)

Reason I asked is it might be chlorine or chloramine poisoning as all other factors looks normal

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## Summerland_Aquatics (Mar 13, 2017)

This could be a symptom of a columnaris outbreak, and a pretty serious one at that. columnaris attacks many parts of the fish, with an attack on the gills leading to this kind of behavior. If it's already at this stage, then the fish at the surface won't survive much longer, but any fish that aren't displaying this symptom can still be saved. The first step is to lower water temperatures to at least 75 degrees, and to up the amount of salt you have in your aquarium. Another thing is to stop doing emergency water changes, as columnaris thrives in pristine water. Unfortunately, columanris often looks like the symptoms of something else, leading many to administer the wrong treatment.

Have you recently added any new fish to the tank? as this is the primary cause of columnaris.


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## bigbadjon (Aug 6, 2015)

Columnaris usually shows markings on the fish long before it labors their breathing. I doubt that is his problem.


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## Summerland_Aquatics (Mar 13, 2017)

bigbadjon said:


> Columnaris usually shows markings on the fish long before it labors their breathing. I doubt that is his problem.


Not necessarily, if the infection is internal it won't show any external markings. I've had both instances of Columnaris in my tank, and they are both a serious problem. It's even more likely in this case considering that no one can seem to figure out what is actually going on in his tank, which is a hallmark of Columnaris.


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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

I also think it is premature to jump to diagnosing columnaris. Summer land I think had a bad experience with it in the past and is maybe being a bit hyper vigilant. But jumping straight to major alterations in your water chemistry is usually an overreaction that further stresses distressed fish. 


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## PierreSchoon (Feb 22, 2017)

@DiegoBedoyaVision how are the fish doing?

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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Hi guys.. Thank you all so much for the help and feedback. Sorry for the delay in response I had a busy day at work yesterday and dealing with this issue. I kinda figured I needed to control the issue asap and act quickly. I did a 50% water change, I also bought and installed an airstone and a powerhead. I'll post some pics thru my phone in just a moment.. to address the following concerns/questions below:



bigbadjon said:


> Running an air stone is cheap insurance in case you o2 levels dip or the filter breaks.


Agreed. Lesson learned here for sure. I bought an air stone & pump for my 10 G hospital tank as well. Thanks for the tip.



kyle3 said:


> Lowering the water level and getting some increased surface agitation is a good start.
> 
> *Have you done the recommended large water change? That will be the most important remedy.* It is possible they are having breathing trouble because of something else, besides low O2, whatever it is, diluting it is the only thing that will improve the situation.
> 
> ...


Hey Kyle, I appreciate the feedback. First of all my tank is well established I've had it running for 4 years... so definitely not new. However, the filter is about 2 months old but I did run it side by side with my established filter for a month before I removed my old filter. Also I moved the old filter media into my new filter media so I don't think it couldve caused a cycle-reset?

I added fish about a week ago, 8 otos and 3 corys. I did a 50% water change yesterday, I also do my weekly water chanes of about 30% every Saturday. My levels seem pretty solid, I use the Fresh Water Master Kit (liquid). I realized that my levels are not at 0. The reading was minimum <0.25 so I just assumed it meant 0. Also, I realized I wasnt testing correctly because it appears you need to shake the living life out of the nitrate test lol. I'll redo some testings today after work and update with some new readings. As of now I'm planning to do a water change daily for the next week just as a precaution. I strongly believe what I had was an oxygen collapse. I have no signs of other sickness, disease. I am not a fish expert but I do know a thing or two about fish deasses and signs or at least I know I can tell when something is not right with my fish lol. 

Once I lowered the water levels the fish were back to normal within 30 mins. After adding the airstone and powerhead, fish are thriving.



PierreSchoon said:


> Did you use a water conditioner before or during the water change?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Of course. I use Prime and I let my water sit for about 1 hr. I also temp check my tank water and new water before I add. Usually they're always matching at around 78 F.



Summerland_Aquatics said:


> This could be a symptom of a columnaris outbreak, and a pretty serious one at that. columnaris attacks many parts of the fish, with an attack on the gills leading to this kind of behavior. If it's already at this stage, then the fish at the surface won't survive much longer, but any fish that aren't displaying this symptom can still be saved. The first step is to lower water temperatures to at least 75 degrees, and to up the amount of salt you have in your aquarium. Another thing is to stop doing emergency water changes, as columnaris thrives in pristine water. Unfortunately, columanris often looks like the symptoms of something else, leading many to administer the wrong treatment.
> 
> Have you recently added any new fish to the tank? as this is the primary cause of columnaris.


Again, could be but I doubt it because I think I would've seen fish acting strange. I monitor my fish and water daily. This literally happened over night, I think it was an oxygen collapse.



PierreSchoon said:


> @DiegoBedoyaVision how are the fish doing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Ty so much for asking. They are all doing great, thank God I haven't lost anyone. Keeping my fingers crossed but everyone looks good.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

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## PierreSchoon (Feb 22, 2017)

Very happy to hear that everything is back to normal. Never nice when this happens and you can't put your finger on the problem

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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

@PierreSchoon Thanks!

Here's another photo update... Blue Phantom Pleco is back in the main tank and doing good. I feel so lucky that he pulled thru. He made such a 180* turn. I thought I'd lost him when I woke up and he was upside down in a corner (first pic). Definitely dramatic but I'm glad I was able to act quickly and get help from this awesome community and save the fishes! 















































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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Though it seems to be O2 related (well not water content O2, not ruling out "something" interfering w/ O2 uptake), I'm having a hard time w/ this as the prime issue..
How much Prime did you use?
What were your ammonia numbers again? 
I've had guppies do the "surface thing" due to high Nitrite spike..

Anyways you were successful.. which is a real plus.. whatever the cause.
Beautiful fish and tank btw..


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

@jeffkrol Thank you! I took some pics of my fish so you can take a look and see if you notice anything unusual with them. 




























































































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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Just glad that it seems they are doing MUCH better. I would test for Nitrite and Ammonia. Do a test and make sure and SHAKE the crap out of the bottles. First thing I do is clash the two bottles tops together. I do this for like 20 seconds. This make sure the tops are not clogged up and should give a more accurate reading. Then literally shake the bottles till you get a shoulder injury lol. I have had the problem of my nitrate test reading zero to find out it was actually 80 once I followed what I just told you.

Bump: Also another thing is are you absolutely sure of the temperature? how did you verify the temp? Do you have more than one temp sensor? Usually the top two indications of o2 loss is heat and co2. Since you aren't running co2 it brings it to temp. Especially with such an o2 loss they are at the top like that.

What kind of heater are you running? Is that where you are getting the temp reading from? Perhaps the heater is bad? I had a heater go bad that was absolutely burning and the reading did not change even though it was hotter. Was quickly replaced with an inline heater. Just saying as a possibility.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

no, nothing wrong, and your plants are pearling somewhat (i.e O2).. Whatever the cause added air and water changes did the trick..
Best scientific advice: Something went wacky..


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

@clownplanted - I have a TDS pen that measures temperature too. It's pretty accurate. On top of that I have 3 thermometers inside my tank to make sure I'm getting accurate readings. Traditional thermostat and 2 sticker temp readings. The heater is the default one that comes with Marineland aquarium kits; nothing fancy but does the trick. I have another post we're I was getting recommendations on heaters since it was next on the upgrade list.
@jeffkrol - Thanks and a little bit of acting quickly. I'm just happy I was off work that morning and I had just gotten paid a few days earlier. Also I'm very grateful I had my hospital tank setup running perfectly. I could've lost my Blue Phantom Pleco if it wasn't for that emergency tank.


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## Wantsome99 (Nov 27, 2016)

Good to hear things are better. Most of your fish are of the sensitive type. Rams are extremely sensitive to nitrite and ammonia. Plecos come from fast moving rivers and prefer well oxygenated water. The fact that your pleco was upside down suggests there wasn't enough O2. Also nitrifying bacteria in your filter need 02. If O2 levels drop in your aquarium your bacteria colony could suffer and cause a ammonia spike. O2 in a aquarium doesn't come from the bubbles dissolving in the water is comes from the bubbles agitating the surface of the water. Most O2 in the aquarium comes from gas exchange at the surface of the water. A heavy oil slick on the surface can prevent 02 in the aquarium.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

@Wantsome99 - Good to know. I definitely didn't have any oil slick build up at the top, there was a flow but apparently not strong enough for the livestock that I have. So as long as I'm running my power head on low and disrupting the water (ripple effect) I shouldn't have any issues right? On the pics i posted above i had it bubbling because obviously there was an emergency but moving forward is what I'm asking.

Also these are my plants; how do they look? Any tips advice or anything you might notice that's wrong with them? The only thing that looks strange are my java ferns.






































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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

The powerhead looks positioned good. I have mine the same way that runs 24/7 and allows me to run more co2 this way due to more o2. So it will for sure help with the o2 and overall flow in the tank which is another positive. 

The plants look good. The java ferns are those holes in them? Hard to tell in the pics. Do any of your fish eat at them? If they do not eat at them are the holes edges yellow at all? 

overall I think your plants look great.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Just for reference..
Oxygen levels for fish and plants in a tropical aquarium
https://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/manage/overview-of-florida-waters/water-quality/photosynthesis/


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

My guess and thats all it really is a guess is that you had just enough oxygen in there and the plants were helping during the day providing o2 but due to no surface movement at night when the plants started to consume o2 is when it went south. Thats why in the morning you saw what you did due to the oxygen being depleted by the plants and fish. Again just a guess but seems plausible.


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## awesometim1 (Oct 31, 2013)

Glad to hear the tank is back on track. Loving those rams! How are you keeping them alive?! I heard they were very sensitive to water parameters...


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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

So glad to hear that your fish have recovered!!! Sounds like you had the perfect response. I'm in agreement with clownplanted. It sounds very much like O2 was the culprit, if it had been ammonia or other chemical their gills would likely have needed some time to heal before you saw their behavior return to normal. 

Those tests can be quite a pain with all the shaking- lol  

Your tank and the fish look great! Glad everything came out so well 


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Thank you guys! @kyle3 @clownplanted I have a strong feeling it was an o2 collapse overnight. All signs led to it, especially when I moved my Pleco to my hospital tank and he literally went from being belly up unresponsive to full colored and back swimming and eating. Lowering the water levels was a great emergency call until I got the new equipment installed. As far as the holes on the java plants I don't see my fish messing with my plants... I do my Ottos and Amano Shrimp cleaning them I'm not sure if they could be the culprits. 
@awesometim1 this is my 4th or 5th attempt with rams. Usually I loose them within a week or two, but I started learning more about their water parameters and etc. When I saw them at the surface suffocating... I almost had a heart attack because that's usually what happened to all my rams hours before they died. Besides that I guess I just have enough plants to give them their own hiding spots etc. They're thriving because they've mated a couple of times and I've had many eggs in my tank (none have hatched yet). Also if it helps I got them from Tom (Breeder) which is probably another factor.

On that note I just retested my water levels and I follow the instructions by the T. I'm not gonna lie... my arms were hurting after lol... I've been doing it wrong all this time!  here is the pic see if you can advise me on my water parameters 

Also temp dropped a bit to 77... not sure if that's due to all the extra water flow. Ideally I like to keep it at 78 for a nice balance between plants and fish











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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Your water parameters look fine. See nothing to say otherwise. 


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> Your water parameters look fine. See nothing to say otherwise.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. I noticed Nitrate is orange around 20-25 ppm, is that ok or do I need a water change asap?


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

DiegoBedoyaVision said:


> Thanks. I noticed Nitrate is orange around 20-25 ppm, is that ok or do I need a water change asap?


To me it looks more between 10-15ppm but could be the lighting? You are fine between 10-30ppm nitrate and is recommended with plants. If it hits 40 then would do a water change. Basically in the orange you are fine. Hits red that should do wc.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Also to help with the holes issue you could possibly have a K(Potassium shortage). With your fertilizer does it say what the amount if k you are dosing is? Typically dosing Macros will give you enough K. Although would not hurt to add just a little k2so4 a couple times a week to ensure you have enough. You want to shoot for 5 – 20 ppm of K. The typical k deficiency signs are older leaves develop holes with a yellow outline. Can you tell if the holes have a yellow outline? Do they seem to get bigger?

I have ottos and ammano shrimp and they do not eat or put any holes in any of my plants. They do keep them nice and clean of algae though.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

I use API Leaf Zone, CO2 Booster and Root Tabs for the fertz. I have taken a step back on CO2 since the O2 collapse I had a few nights ago. I haven't added any fertz since.

The wholes are small, have been small for weeks. No yellow outline and they aren't growing. I was concerned on the ferns because they are getting a whiteish color


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

DiegoBedoyaVision said:


> I use API Leaf Zone, CO2 Booster and Root Tabs for the fertz. I have taken a step back on CO2 since the O2 collapse I had a few nights ago. I haven't added any fertz since.
> 
> The wholes are small, have been small for weeks. No yellow outline and they aren't growing. I was concerned on the ferns because they are getting a whiteish color


Maybe yours are sensitive to the co2 booster? I have java fern greens and seem to do fine but not sure about the kind you have? Maybe someone else can chime in. Makes it suspect especially since all other plants seem to be doing great. I know some plants are sensitive to it but not sure about the java ferns you have to be honest. Oh and they take ferts from the water column not root tabs.

you should be fine adding ferts and in fact doing so should also give you more o2 since the plants will be able to create more by having sufficient ferts. The ferts will not hurt the livestock.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

@clownplanted: Yeah thats what I thought because all my other plants are doing well. Btw I realized its not Java Ferns they are called El Niño Ferns and I bought them from Pet Smart --> https://www.petsmart.com/fish/supplies/decor-and-gravel/live-plants/top-fin-el-nino-fern-26264.html


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## Tessa (Dec 8, 2015)

As far as I know El Niño Fern isn't a truly aquatic fern and does much better above water.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Tessa said:


> As far as I know El Niño Fern isn't a truly aquatic fern and does much better above water.


That's strange.. it says "El Niño Plants" do best in aquariums...


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Is this good enough water distortion at the top to keep my tank oxygenated? 






































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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I can't remember, are you dosing CO2? If not, then the more the merrier. If you are, then I read (for whatever it's worth) that you want to shoot for light distortion without any "bulges". Check for a video of a lily pipe, that's the right amount of surface disturbance.

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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

You basically want enough to cause small ripples but no white caps if that makes sense. No bubbles. That is if using co2. If no co2 than as said above the more the better. 
From the looks of your pic it looks perfect. 


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

I use CO2 Booster; I don't have a CO2 system tho. This is what my tank looks like now after WC.















































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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Good stuff. Seems like the occupants are much happier for sure. 


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