# Calcium Chloride + Epsom Salts Question



## jrafael (Jan 7, 2009)

For CaCl2 (plaster of Paris or gypsum) check your local brewer supply, arts/craft store, you also get plaster of Paris or gypsum from your local hardware store or asian market (ask for tofu coagulant).

The cvs epsom salt will be just fine
http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/catalog/s...79&productId=168179&navAction=jump&navCount=3


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## JamesQuall (Mar 13, 2009)

jrafael said:


> For CaCl2 (plaster of Paris or gypsum)



Those are a hydrate of calcium sulfate!


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## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

Lol James, so are they what I should use or not? Elaborate for us regular non - chemical major folk!


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Plants are more likely to use sulfates than chlorides. Based on that I would expect that plaster of Paris would be preferable to deicing salt. But, Epsom salt is as pure as you need, and from my checking, is more expensive at the local stores than the same thing called Magnesium sulfate from aquarium fertilizer places on line.


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## jjp2 (May 24, 2008)

My Wal-Mart has Epsom Salt. Its $2 for a 4 lb bag.


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## SleepySin (Mar 2, 2009)

Plaster of paris is made from calcium sulfate (CaSO4), not calcium chloride (CaCl2). Some brands do contain calcium carbonate (CaCO3). Technically you can use it but make sure you find a product that doesn't have extra additives in it.

About the hydrate part, some compounds like CaSO4 and MgSO4 attract water to themselves so you'll have to take that into consideration when you make your measurements.


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## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies! I'll try to get me some Magnesium Sulfate. Any pointers as to where? (will it be just easier to pick a bag of Epsom Salt at Walmart?) In addition to this I'll be adding Baking Soda. For Calcium, I still don't know what to add though.... Remember though, this is primarily to condition my soft water during WC. 

I found a couple of CaCl2 products aimed at reef systems online:

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-POUNDS-HIGH-PURITY-CALCIUM-CHLORIDE-REEF-AQUARIUM_W0QQitemZ270337379539QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

https://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/product_info.php?language=en&currency=USD&products_id=154

It seems this stuff is very cheap, but when placed in a bottle with a fancy name, it suddenly appreciates 5000%. Also, readily available? I think not... So far the only place I found it is on ebay, and 1 jar at DrF&S (400g for $17). Perhaps I'm better off using plaster of paris... Lol obviously I'm still not sure of difference between using chloride and sulfate.... Like i said this is basically to raise the hardness of my tapwater.


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## SleepySin (Mar 2, 2009)

You could take a look at fertilizer shops:
http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/index.asp?Option1=cats&Edit=2&EditU=1&Regit=2
http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/ferts.html

Chlorides and sulfates don't affect hardness. Hardness is basically a measure of carbonates/bicarbonates for kH, magnesium and calcium for gH.


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## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

Oh geez sleepy, you're killing me!  Now you give me 20 choices to choose from lol! 

Ok so what is ideal for our tanks? Ca and Mg Sulfates? In other words should I just get the GH mixes, or opt out for CaCl2 and MgSO4 separately?

Thanks for the site! Its just what I was looking for!


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## jrafael (Jan 7, 2009)

JamesQuall said:


> Those are a hydrate of calcium sulfate!




@ Ukrainetz

I'm talking from personal experience, plaster of paris will work just fine. I have used plaster of paris (DAP® Plaster of Paris) for over a year in my tank with no negative effects on plants, fish (mollies, tetras, corys, pleco)or inverts (pond snails, red cherry shrimps)

Don't get yourself crazy about something as simple as this.

Here is the link to the one I use
http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=133&SubcatID=22

And the MSDS
http://www.dap.com/docs/msds/00071008_english.pdf

And for the reluctants here is an old thread at Tom Barr's forums talking about plaster of paris (gypsum)

http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/3080-gh-builder-calcium-magnesium.html 



> Hi sir. I wish I could simple make an online order for GH booster, problem is that I lived in a different country and the shipping cost would cost a fortune. If making a pre-mix will be troublesome, can I just dose them separately to achieve the same effect of GH booster? thanks again!





> You folks have agriculture there right?
> Most countries have that. So they generally sell things like Gypsum, Epsom salt, potash of sulfur etc.
> 
> Mix some up, add to the tank.
> ...


http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/3209-want-more-accuracy-want-daily-pmdd-style-ei-dosing-8.html



> Tom, you have been very helpful. BTW can I safely use this chemical called Plaster of *Paris* ? Someone told me it's Calcium Sulphate, CaSO4·0.5H2O , Plaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
> 
> If your answer is yes, then I figure it will be 1/2 tsp of that CaSO4·0.5H2O and another 1/2 tsp of MgSO4 after a 50% water change?
> 
> ...





> I believe the pp is CaSO4.
> I also know it as gypsum, I'm more inclined to get it via that way, but if it's 100% CaSO4, or close, then use it, especially if very fine ground.
> 
> It does dissolve but takes more time than say CaCl2, but it's a lot more soluble than CaCO3.
> ...


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## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

YES! Someone is speaking my language here :icon_mrgr !!!

It is all clear like night and day now! 

Thank you for all the help!


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

The MSDS on the plaster of paris says that it is 75-85% CaSO4, and 15-25% CaCO3. That means in addition to raising calcium levels, it will raise carbonate levels as well.

While in many cases that shouldn't cause any problems, for anyone keeping softwater plant species, trying to breed certain fish such as apistos, or running a pH controller for their CO2, there very well could be negative affects.


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## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

Thanks again! I went out and got them locally, and it seems to be the cheaper way: 4lb PP ~ $4.99, and 4lb Epsom Salt ~ $3.99. Carbonates won't be a problem for me, since I'm only conditioning change water. The only thing I would be concerned about is the Silica. Other than that, I cannot believe I'll be messing with GH and KH again! I remember being scorned by Naja about messing with water chemistry


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