# just a 20 long...



## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

with that filter, i don't think you'd need one. unless you wanted to use it as a co2 diffusing method...


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## jackh (Jul 2, 2008)

got any pics of your dwarf rainbows? those things are beautiful


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

theyre in my 20H and that tank's scape SUCKKKS. its just growing plants for me  

i'll try n snap some.


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

I'm excited for this tank.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

me too :> my lfs is getting the 20lbs of eco i need on thursday. im gona be tweaking out until then. i need to cycle this suckerrrr!!!!! 

although i was thinking about starting some HC immersed. that would give me time to rack up some dough


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

here are my stocking plans... this all depends on whether or not my LFS can come through with my order!

5 red line rasboras - kinda like mini torpedo barbs  
9-11 boraras merah 
4 otos 
and maybe a betta?


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## jackh (Jul 2, 2008)

:icon_idea or maybe some neon dwarf rainbows? pictures online dont do them justice. they are really pretty in person.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah im thinking about just ordering 2 more females. or some threadfins. rainbows are sweet


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

looks like its gonna be cool.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah filled this bad boy up with eco! working on the hardscape tomorrow, using the DW from my rcs tank.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i need hardscape opinions. heres my first layout. and my second layout is just taking the right side out. the rocks arent part of it, just holding up the wood.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I like it but I the right is too close to the center. Is it possible to move it back into the corner some? I would also add more slope to that eco


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

slope like to the back, or high sides/low center? if i moved the right back i wouldnt be able to plant around it cause the dw would be in the way


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Id say lowest in the front middle, higher in the back middle and highest in the back corners 
5 being the highest and 1 being lowest...hop you can understand this thingy I did (looking down on the tank)-
5 4 3 4 5
4 3 2 3 4


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

lol yeah i get it. gona go slope right now and then try out some more scapes... 

heres one more


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

sloped it by adding water to show the low points. its all cloudy white cause i stirred up some jobes :| anyways i like this scape the best.. 

what do you think?


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## crudnugget (Feb 5, 2008)

I like that best too..very simple but nice looking. Will lend itself good to planting as well.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i'll probably be sticking with this one.. maybe 

the pictures suck. it doesnt show the depth it really has.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

filled it up, added some petites. walmart filter is cycling the tank with tons of bacteria while the eheim is cycling on my 20H. i still dont have lights, ordering them tomorrow maybe? gota sweet talk the rents into extending my debt


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Looks great Chris. :thumbsup:
Really like the DW arrangement.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks  its killing me that i cant plant it for a couple of days!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ordered the lights!  

now to picking out the plants....


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

what lights did you go with?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

2 - 2x18W Coralife T5's 

it gives me 4 bulbs to work with, and only 2 have to be on at a time. my options are endless


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

I FOUND A FRY. the water was 100% new minus what came out of the shrimp tank when i did a water change. 

i did put some sunset hygro in there from 20H. and by put i mean pruned it then threw it across the room into the 20L. it must have made the flight stuck to some floaters! i'm pretty sure its a zebra danio fry. 

looks like this (not my image)










its about <1cm long, and is doing its best to fight the current. should i take it out and put it in a tupperware? or can it fend for itself? i put fish food in the tank every day to seed the filter so it does have a food if it can find it.


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Wow! What a good surprise! Whenever I spot fry, I usually just let them fend for themselves... but it's totally up to you! Good luck with whatever you do!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah i took him out an put him in 2 cups of water with some java moss. hopefully theres some micro-food in there. im excited to save it cause its my first


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## skoorbza (Jun 8, 2008)

My Danio fry accidentally thrive as well, as long as they make it to the plants! When I had them in a bucket, they ate tiny flakes of an algae wafer that I scraped off with a razor blade. They were able to eat this even when about 3mm! Later, I powdered one of the flake foods for them. When I moved them into the main tank, they were still VERY small. I wanted to help them stay hidden, so I mixed some powder food with tank water and gently squirted it amid the plants. My Danios are voracious and don't let any food sink to the bottom.

Congrats on the fishy!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i had to move to a more sturdy part of my desk so it underwent a re-hardscape. i'll post pics when it clears up. my LFS said they could probably get me some CPD's so i'll be crossing my fingers til they know on thursday 
and my lights will be here on monday. oooh yah!!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

just java moss isnt enough. but if you feed some algae waffers, of give some fish mulm from an established tank, he should do ok. or you can feed some hikari first bites (not sure if its beg enough though, but i think it is). is the water being filtered and aeriated for him? he cant stand too high current, but still needs some filtration and aeriation. sponge filters work good for fry.

CPDs are great fish. i love mine they are pretty active and colorful.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

aeration is being taken care of by the moss. i crumble up a tiny piece of flake every day which it seems to like. also do 25% water changes every day. its sort of a fend for yourself but with better conditions type of thing.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

moss is too slow growing for aeriation, but waterchanges every day take care of that.

hope he makes it. im curious what he actually is.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

hes a danio for sure. i only have zebras so its gonna be zebra. i wish it were a neon rainbow, that would be sweet  those and otos the only fish of both sex in my 20H so it has to be one of them. and from all the pics ive seen its 99% danio and maybe 1% oto or rainbow lol :hihi: but who knows! all fry look alike when theyre that small.


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## dooboogoo (Apr 19, 2007)

How's your baby danio doing?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

alive and kickin' 

im hoping its a neon rainbow so lets keep calling it that and maybe itll listen.. :hihi:


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## dooboogoo (Apr 19, 2007)

chris127 said:


> alive and kickin'
> 
> im hoping its a neon rainbow so lets keep calling it that and maybe itll listen.. :hihi:


Ok then, I'm glad to hear your baby neon rainbow is still alive.:biggrin:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

so is a rhinox 1000 okay for _up to_ 20 gallons? i broke my last nano diffuser :| 

i looked at the 2000 and it said not compatible with DIY..


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I have a rhinox 2000 on my 20 gall, and I think its overkill. A rhinox 1000 should be fine


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

did you get yours from aquaticmagic?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I got mine from another member on this forum


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ordered a Rhinox 1000 for $7 + $6 Shipping. hopefully it'll be less of a piece of junk than the nano ones i bought from them :hihi: every time i looked at them they snapped. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=250194549567

LIGHTS COME TOMORROWWW!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

they are ok diffusers, i already broke one :/

wen new though, they are very nice


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

hooked up the eheim and the lights. the 2215 is crazy awesome. moves water like a beast  im not so happy with the "colormax" bulbs. the pink hue is lame  im probably going to replace them with 10K to see how i like it. 

question though.. should i cut the spray bar to fit across the 12" side of the tank to create a better flow?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

picture update... i just planted everything (except for the rotala rotun. + the others around the dw) 

list..
Limno mini
rotala colorata
rotala sp green
cyperus helferi
echinodorus angustifolius










i like the cyperus(even though its already overgrown for my tank) but idk if i like rotala any more. i'm thinking about just grassy looking plants like blyxa, dwarf hairgrass, smaller cyperus plants lol.. 

ive got 6 gambusia from my pond holding the cycle until i know what im getting


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## prettyrustyrobot (May 23, 2007)

looks really good! i just got some hygro low grow in my tank and i looove it. maybe you should try some in the left foreground of your tank?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay, i dont want to gloat but this is the best looking rotala rotun ive ever grown. so bushy and red  the stuff i grew in my tank looks like crap compared to this :|












wanna know my secret? leave it up to nature!!! i planted those two clumps (about 30 stems) in my pond, about 2 feet from the surface. ive got about 30 more stems out there and i'm gonna compare the two in a while. BTW the rotala that was previously in my tank and this rotala are from the same original plants.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thatll do it. they grow bushier and redder with more light, and flourecent bulbs just dont compare to nuclear fusion.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

lmao exactly  

thats like 3 billion billion megawats or so


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

lfs cant order CPD's, said their supplier has no idea what they were talking about. working on getting them to order some microrasboras which i doubt will happen. we'll know by thursday. 

so if that falls through im taking up the challenge to determine whether or not dwarf pencils are shrimp safe. i havent seen any on this forum so it'll be neat to have something uncommon  

probably getting 8x Nannostomus Marginatus. (max out at 1.25-1.5 inches)


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I have though of getting some pencils many a time, never got around to it though, they seem like such interesting fish


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

and you know whats awesome? i can get 8 of them for ~$12 shipped   (i hope the website doesnt have a minimum order rule)


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

What website is it?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

boxlotfish.com 
$7 next day shipping for florida residents!!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

prettyrustyrobot said:


> looks really good! i just got some hygro low grow in my tank and i looove it. maybe you should try some in the left foreground of your tank?


did not see that til now, sorry :icon_roll

i have some low hygro in my 20H and i think it wold look great as a foreground for a larger tank though.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

chris127 said:


> boxlotfish.com
> $7 next day shipping for florida residents!!


Ahh yes, lauralee had mixed results with them


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i heard about that. but its an $11 gamble im willing to take.  she said whoever she spoke to in email worked every thing out okay so thats a plus too.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

been talking to boxlotfish and he(loren) says shipping shouldnt be a problem and if any complications arise he'll be sure to fix them. the only problems he has with shipping is in the panhandle. 

also my mystery fry doubled in size! about 1 cm now. i graduated him to my 5.5 with my lonely cherry survivors.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay, so an hour and a half of splitting, rinsing, and planting of dwarf hairgrass got me to this. ive still got ALOT more left but i was getting pruney


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Aw man, where's all the plants? I was just getting excited to see this one grow in. Lookin good though.. :thumbsup:

I wasn't sure if boxlot would ship out just a few fish, I'm probably gonna have to take advantage of that soon.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

lol i took out all the rotala. im going green  

ive been talking to loren and i think hes okay with shipping out just a few. i told him i wanted to order 8 pencils and he said thatd be okay. im should be getting an invoice from him in a few hours so i'll let you know the charges ( i think they raised it to $10 from $5 ) 

*SO FERTS. *

i want to order...

KH2PO4 ½ lb
KNO3 1 lb
Plantex CSM+B ½ lb 

dosing 1/4tsp KNO3, 1/16tsp KH2PO4, and 1/16tsp CSM+B 3x a week sound good? how long should that last me, a year? i dont think i need any K2SO4... plenty of K from the other two. 


Edit: 
Yeah, my total is 21.77, $10 box charge, $7 shipping, and $4.77 for fish. ordered nine to expect 2 or 3 DOA's. should be here by friday


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

added more hairgrass. little by little


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Nice work, you could work as a hair transplant technician. :hihi:

I don't know how long the ferts will last because I never really kept tabs, a really long time. At least a year for me on the CSM+B, and that's the one that depletes the fastest with my dosage (wasn't dosing the KNO3 much for the first 6mo, but I imagine that'll be the first one you replace. Wasn't always doing big EI doses either, just stayed ahead of uptake for awhile). The P should last the longest. It all depends on each person's dosing, I'm sure someone here has stuck with EI long enough to give you a closer estimate.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

jaidexl said:


> Nice work, you could work as a hair transplant technician. :hihi:


LMAO my dad just said that! and im not even half finished (i think) 

EI is all new to me. no more random dumps of flourish hehe


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I never followed Seachem's confusing directions on anything. For Flourish, I'd dose it until Fe tested 1ppm, and redose to match to the rate of uptake.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Tank is looking great! Well done with the hairgrass planting! :thumbsup: can't wait to see it with more plants back in it and then once it grows in! Good work so far!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks! 

so i got some regular hairgrass (eleocharis sp.) 12 inch high tops. where should i put that? im thinking where the limphno is and move the limnphno in front of the filter intake. or put the hairgrass in front of the intake and around the long piece of dw. or where the leftover cyperus i have is. idk man scaping is tough


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

moved the limphno, added hair grass. my dwarf hair grass is getting brown goo on it  not brown algae i dont think, it doesnt come off very easy. if the dwarf hair grass melts will it grow back like HC does? 

LOL i forgot to move the flame moss rock back :hihi:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

It looks nice  Hairgrass will spread fast


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks! i hope it does pretty quick 

and i think you guys get the gist of the grassy plants i want to use. blyxa will be here on monday, putting that in front of the cyperus and front left. i acutally thought about tearing the wood out and going dutch. my mind wanders too much hehe


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

dwarf hairgrass already took off, i see some green poking up from from the eco  

pencil shipment didnt come in friday, probably tuesday.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

should i put some taiwan moss on the driftwood? it looks pretty plain :| if i do it would be around the base near the anubias


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

chris127 said:


> dwarf hairgrass already took off, i see some green poking up from from the eco
> 
> pencil shipment didnt come in friday, probably tuesday.


pics! :d


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i tried! my g-h-e-t-t-o 5.0mp camera cant zoom in on anything to save its life. i'll snoop around my parents room to see if i can find their camera... 

now i think i want some marbled hatchet fish haha someone take my computer away before i buy another tank for these fish....


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay grabbed their camera.. 

the really green ones are new runners, no CO2 and little bit of ferts and they still pop up  









i just like this view, its what i see from my bed. cords and tubes are lame, i know 









the school of gambusia sp. all spazzy males 









and heres my 20H. i threw this scape together 20 minutes before the football game yesterday after i replaced the gravel to schutlz. we won 42-12


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

Looking good!

If you do decide to put some moss on the driftwood I would do so sparingly.
That wood is pretty cool looking and would be less cool looking if it was completely covered in moss.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks. the wood has a great color/texture and i dont want to cover it up but i feel like i need moss lol by the petites. thats what im cultivating on the metal rectangles. 

so if i want hatchets, will they get concussions by jumping into an acrylic cover?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im going on vacation friday - sunday night. with a whole bunch of fresh plants and and hopefully some fresh fish how shuold i go about lighting it? i dont want to run co2 because i dont want to gas out my fish just yet. one fixture for 9 hours or 1 fixture to run 1 hour before the second comes on, then 5 hours with both on, and then 1 hour with one fixture? (7 hours total) cant dose ferts during this time since my mom doesnt want anyone in the hous. 

and how should i acclimate the pencils when they come? i read waterfallers thread about the gouramis/acclimating and it seems that drip acclimating could be deadly. ph in my tank is 7.2 (ill lower it with co2) and i bet the ph the fish will be in is probably like 6 or something (straight from south america and full of co2)


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## confuted (Jan 31, 2007)

Why would drip acclimating be deadly?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

read this over, great info. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...ami-turned-fish-acclimation-discussion-2.html

drip acclimating fish from the LFS that have been in a bag for say 30 minutes is great but when you expose water thats full of co2 and ammonia to air the co2 leaves, and the ammonia is made more deadly.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

That's why you should always use Prime or Amquel+ in the transport container when drip acclimating.

I always take samples before treatment, for amm, nI, KH, and GH. Not all are necessary when you're using Prime but I like to know how the LFS/supplier is keeping things, and I like to know what my new fish have been dealing with.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I gotta second the addition of Prime or other ammonia detoxifier and then drip-acclimating to slowly adjust the fish to your water conditions. If the concern is the ammonia becoming toxic when the CO2 off-gasses then I say just detoxify the ammonia and slowly adjust the rest of the parameters. Just my humble opinion though.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yep, and half the time I get the test results done and find out there's no reason not to dump them straight into the QT tank. Fortunately, the params are sometimes closer to where you want them. For all you know, boxlot might change params up before you get them.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ill get some prime though next time im out. havent gotten an update on any shipping so idk whats happening. hopefully theyll get here tomorrow so i can keep an eye on them for a couple of days before i go on vacation. :| if not, im going to cancel the order and get some micro rasboras. theyre interesting little guys 

but anyway i had a nice little gift to come home too...


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## UF_gator (May 28, 2008)

Go gators!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

:icon_twis rep that gator nation! :flick: lol

so i got a refund for the pencils. theyre great fish, but i dont want any complications since im kinda budgeted and i need the most fish for my dolla. 

so my next choices are...
CPD's (maybe i can breed them?) 
Boraras (how can i breed them? ) 

if anyone wants to suggest any other nano adult shrimp friendly fish lmk


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Bummers, I'm now less likely to order form boxlot. Did they tell you what the deal was, were they even shipped out? 

Let me know if you find a good deal or local spot for any boraras species, that's what I'm thinking I might want in my new tank.

Male Endler's might be a nice choice for you, I wouldn't put any females in a nano though, since they're livebearears.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

it was all my deal, nothing to do with them. Loren is a great guy if you ask me. i asked for a refund cause theyre wild caught fish and i just cant afford to lose any cause im 16 and dont have any money at to replace some fish :hihi: 

ive tried ordering around port charlotte for some micro rasboras and cpds with no luck. ive been on call for some at AA Pets on Kings hwy and Pet owners wharehouse on 41 for about a month now and they werent able to get any in. theyre not very good fish or plant stores if you ask me but still great people. any good lfs in the cape or fort myers? the most out of the ordinary fish ive seen at those are rainbows lol..... but i havent been in about a month. 

i like endlers, awesome looking little guys but i want something less "flamboyant" for my main school. :tongue:

would a school of 12 maculatus sound good?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

got gas? 

lol it made me happy :hihi:


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## dooboogoo (Apr 19, 2007)

chris127 said:


> so my next choices are...
> CPD's (maybe i can breed them?)
> Boraras (how can i breed them? )
> 
> if anyone wants to suggest any other nano adult shrimp friendly fish lmk


I hear breeding CPDs is like breeding any type of danio. I think for successful fry raising, you'll need a separate tank, cuz the adults will eat the fry. I'm going to try to see if they'll breed in my 29g, maybe some fry will survive in the plants, haha. I also have boraras brigittae and they're awesome. They school pretty tightly when I'm near or the lights just turned on. And they like swimming in the current.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

aw sweet a fish that likes current! i got plenty of that with my 2215  
yeah i heard CPD's were like that. and i dont think they school as much as boraras, do yours?


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## dooboogoo (Apr 19, 2007)

Yeah, my CPDs don't really school as tightly, they kinda hang around together though.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah thats what i thought. maybe i can set up a breeding project for cpds later this year. ive got a 20H i could vacate and separate into 2 parts  

so i think i want like 12-14 brigittae, they have better color


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

chris127 said:


> any good lfs in the cape or fort myers?


Boardroom Aquatics on Kenwood Ln is good, but it's a small place, so you kind of have to frequent it often to catch the good stuff coming through. The owner is one of the best LFS owners I've ever dealt with. He just has a small place so holds onto a few different species long term while he cycles the ones in the other tanks every month or so it seems. He'll order things, but they've never been able to get any of the odd stuff I've requested.

Perky Pets on 80 got me 20+ glass bloodfins for 99c a piece. The only places I've been to in the Cape I'll never go back to again.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

we need to get afa to open up somewhere close


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Sorry, I said Perky Pets was on MLK, it's actually on Palm Beach (80)


chris127 said:


> we need to get afa to open up somewhere close


No doubt, that would be the day. don't know if they'd stay in business around here tho0ugh.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yah they would probably have to start selling little dog outfits or something...


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay so ive got 11 boraras brigittae on order  coming next wednesday 










so now its up to my next decision, cherries, yellows, or snowballs? will probably end up with snowballs...


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Where did you order from, how did the price work out w shipping?


As for the shrimp, do you want monochromatic look or some contrast?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im getting them from miliac. havent payed him yet cause hes not online but the brigittaes are 2.00 each. dunno how much shipping is 

i was thinking get a snowball colony started and then when i can afford more shrimp add some red tigers


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Good choice! I love mine! Ordered from milalic too, shipped well, no DOAs and shipping cost was very reasonable!  Good luck, I hope you have as much luck as I did! :biggrin:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

so i have some diatoms on my hairgrass and dwarf hairgrass. i dont have the time or the gas to go get some otos before i go to orlando this weekend. will the diatoms out compete my grasses for nutrients and kill them if i run one fixture for 6 hours a day over the weekend? ill have co2 running the entire time.

EDIT: i stole some otos from my other tank. so can two of them do some damage to diatoms covering my grasses?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i think i need to post pics to get someone to say anything SO ... 

back from the Interact meeting and everything seems to have cleared up from planting. still waiting on a bunch of b. japonica but its starting look like better. well, the left side at least.... still got a lot of work to do :thumbsup:


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

The plants are looking good so far :thumbsup:

I can't believe usps got dooboogoo's plants to you in Punta but not down here, what's up with that :icon_roll Hopefully, nothing went wrong to have them returned or anything.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

added another manzanita formation. not sure if i like it. my plan is for the blyxa to engulf the wood


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## dooboogoo (Apr 19, 2007)

Glad to know the blyxa shipped well! Tank looks great! BTW, I got some of my brigittaes from milalic and they arrived healthy with no DOAs.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I like the new wood 
....but on an unrelated note.....
boo gators


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks 

and ahahahah. i was waiting for you to say something


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

chris127 said:


> thanks
> 
> and ahahahah. i was waiting for you to say something


I was avoiding commenting on your thread for that exact reason


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

post #1111!! :flick:

theres always next year


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay im going out of town until sunday pm. should i run *both *fixtures for 6 hours or *just one* for 6 hours?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

the b. brigittae are here! there so dang small and active  my next dilemma is snowballs vs. cherries? cherries are cheap and colorful but snowballs are white and uncommon. idk :icon_cry: 

i cant get any good pictures cause they wont leave the back of the tank so these will have to do.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Congrats, Chris! Hope they do well for you!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Cool! Awesome fishies


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Chrisinator said:


> Congrats, Chris! Hope they do well for you!





clwatkins10 said:


> Cool! Awesome fishies


compliment milalic, not me. :icon_cool

and clwatkins thats your mass of plants floating around lmao. it filled my entire 5.5. i just found some tang and hygro sp. rosanverieg?  thanks again!


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Tank looks great.

Isn't it a pain that Pedro has such great fish, good prices, and is a great guy to do business with? I can't keep my mind on one fish when I go to his page

He has CPDs coming in soon! Hopefully the price is right, I want 10 or so.

-Andrew


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

chris127 said:


> and clwatkins thats your mass of plants floating around lmao. it filled my entire 5.5. i just found some tang and hygro sp. roriama  thanks again!


yep, the stuff in the little bag was subwassertang and weeping moss .


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

A Hill said:


> Tank looks great.
> 
> Isn't it a pain that Pedro has such great fish, good prices, and is a great guy to do business with? I can't keep my mind on one fish when I go to his page
> 
> ...


lol im tearing down that scape... adding rocks :icon_cool the wood looks too organized to me. 

i know, gertrudae's here i come!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay so no rocks, but i did rescape . and i put the fish in. took out the gambusia and added 6 mountain minnows and 12 b. brigittae, they all school together lol. 

and i think i have green water... does anyone want rent me a UV? :icon_roll

im happy with the middle and left side but not so much with the right. i think i want dwarf hairgrass to come up all the way to the filter intake. any suggestions?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The hairgrass field would be nice. Thats a shame about the gw  Some lfs rent them though...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

GW will usually right it self soon enough, especially if you get some fast growing stems in there just while the tank cycles and get settled into it's ideal parameters, plus it'd probably be cheaper to grab a few stems than rent a UV sterilizer? 

Either way, the tank is looking awesome!  

good luck with the GW!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

its soo green i want to call it the jolly green midget :flick:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...sion/74567-does-dosing-method-sound-okay.html


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

so i ordered the Green Killing Machine. bye bye pea soup !!  will post pics when its clear. i dont know if the blyxa is still in my tank :confused1:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hope it works out well


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

dude, me too.. i havent seen the back half of my tank for about a week :icon_neut


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

uy.....


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

WOW! That is so green!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Whoa. ¡Que verde!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

si senor!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Hey look at the bright side, could be worse. 

I couldn't even see my fish at the front glass by the time I broke down and bought the green machine. :icon_roll


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

chris127 said:


> uy.....


Oooh cell phone:hihi:

Did you find out what _caused_ the green water?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

combo of co2 (ran out), inconsistent light (trying to find a timer and working on a school schedule), and me sucking at dosing  

ill get it down soon though....


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i hate downoi, blyxa, petsmart, algae, shrimp, and 72 watts of light. :angryfire:angryfire 

i looked into the back of the tank, _bumped_ a piece of dw, and all my blyxa is floating. the pogo yatabeanus is 2 inches emersed(dried out and UGLY), and this %&$#@! downoi ive replanted 100,000 times is floating again - to the trash it went. with school so demanding its a possibility i might go low tech...

uy again. :icon_roll :icon_cry: :icon_redf


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

getting clearer!! (no uv) 

How i run it... 
7 Hour photoperiod, noon burst for 4-5 hours, DIY CO2, double dosing with flourish comp every other day 










ignore the pogostemon, it started growing emersed and drying out so had to plant the tops and i wasnt thinking lol.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That's good  Didn't you already buy a uv though?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yah ive got it hooked up now. it was really green again when i got home lol. hopefully itll clear up by monday.....


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

clear as glass  ignore the scape, some things got moved around or died during the green water era. im going to redo it this weekend.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Very nice. I'm looking forward to the redo (i'm not saying that it's bad now but it's nice looking forward to things )


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im thinking of starting from scratch minus the blyxa, hairgrass, and wood. 

idk, i need a rescaping vision lol...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Let it grow dude! It seems like you keep messing with things before they even get a chance to really start growing! _Be patient!!!_ Great things will happen when you just let them happen.


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## Lorenmws (Jul 27, 2008)

Was the flow on the powerhead really slow for you? I just bought one and it seems to just trickle. I'm hoping it kills my green water.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

it was pretty moderate for me. got rid of it in 2 days (friday night to sunday morning) 

hope your pea soup gets better!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Congrats


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yet another rescape.. only did this cause i took the wood out to eradicate some algae, i swear im done touching it  :hihi: and i got a betta just cause..  










and now my attempt at point n shoot photography 

WCMM displaying.. 










Betta being betta..










the Boraras own the bushes 










and here they both are...


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Hey I like those rocks! The tank is coming along nicely


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

clwatkins10 said:


> Hey I like those rocks! The tank is coming along nicely


lol i stole them from my moms garden  im done scaping i swear! but ive got more plants coming that will fill in the right side so im really 75% done. then ill stop, and if i dont, somebody save me :icon_cry:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Where do you get your wood?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

here in the sns, wasnt badcop though


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Looking good!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Well, It's great wood! Definitely like what I want to use in my future 60p


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks church!



clwatkins10 said:


> Well, It's great wood! Definitely like what I want to use in my future 60p


ahahahahaha  were always planning the future..


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## ohyeahcrx (Mar 21, 2008)

Dangggg makes me wanna plant my 20g long. Too bad right now its home to about 30 convict fry, and fake plants. haha oh well. Your tank looks good tho!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Looks good! The Hygro 'kompacta' and Blyxa will fill in that back corner very nicely -- nice and short -- just right for a 20L. Once the HM really takes hold, don't be afraid to trim it aggressively, it will benefit from it.

Now LEAVE IT ALONE or I'm coming down there to take my plants back! :hihi:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Now LEAVE IT ALONE or I'm coming down there to take my plants back! :hihi:


i am! once i get that lim aro out of there i wont touch it until its trim time.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

params: 

nh4 - 0
no2 - 0 
no3 - 40ppm, too high? 
pH - 7.4 
gh/kh - dont know


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

chris127 said:


> params:
> 
> nh4 - 0
> no2 - 0
> ...


no3 Is kinda high


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yarrr. that was my mess up bottle of ferts, first try with all the chemistry involved, some solid kno3 was still in the bottle cause i underestimated how much h2o i would need to dissolve it. i have my second (correct) batch out in the garage fridge ready to go. i guess ill use that from now on. 

edit: found my calculations sheet  

10 tsp of kno3 in 400mL h2o... 
2.5 tsp k2so4 in 400mL h2o... 
2.5 tsp csm+b in 400mL h2o... 

1 dose is 10mL of liquid mix, 40 doses per bottle 

now its embedded in the internet in case i lose it again roud:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay i took out the c. wendtii cause it melted and just looked ugly with no leaves. some hairgrass was spreading the wrong way (backwards) soo i pulled that up and planted it to the left of the foreground. everything is pearling and the blyxa looks golden green now. roud: 

im going to be putting some e. tenellus to the right of the nana, behind and in front of the wood. also adding some rotala nanjenshan to the right of the p. yatabeanus, and adding some l. arcuata (or should i pull the hygro and plant a limno aromatica bush there?) behind the hygro kompacta.


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## Captain Hooked (Oct 13, 2008)

I think your scape looks good! I'd like to see an updated pic! 

Judging from the last pic- I'd suggest you bring everything more "forward". You have a ton of open foreground and a relatively "thin" background. Start taking cuttings from the tops of your background palnts and put them in front of the bunches until you create some depth. bring that driftwood more forward, too- like within a few inches of the front glass. Just my rookie suggestion.....


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

nothing really happened thats picture worthy lol, just trimmed and replanted the aromatica. the hm is starting to bush out some but ill update with pics once i get the rest of the plants. roud:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

dont keep us waiting too long.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> dont keep us waiting too long.


tell that to the usps :hihi:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

just chilling by some anubias... they look redder in person


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Beauties!  I see your hg is perking up


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks  oh yeah, the stuff is shootin off everywhere. i pulled out one plug to re plant it and it had about 20 runners attached. 

one more... 

Betta lurkin'


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay i ordered a bunch of plants from petnsmiles on ebay, theyve got a nice selection :thumbsup: and they upgraded me to priority shipping  they have really good feedback so i figured id give em a try. i'll let you guys know how it turns out 

each bunch was $2.99 and $5.80 for shipping, so it was priced great. 

2 bunches Rotala sp. nanjenshan 
1 bunch Ludwigia Arcuata 
1 bunch E. tenellus 
1 bunch Saggitaria Subdulata 
1 bunch Bacopa Monnieri


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

aah also ordered 6 amanos. lots of money going bye-bye lol


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im really starting to hate the post office. plants were sent out priority from TX on wednesday and they didnt get here today. Theyre probably going to be mush on monday... theyre slow shipping has become a recurring thing. stuff from cali takes 4 days now...


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

MAN
i am so jealous of your hairgrass. i've been trying to let my grow but its taking forever!!!!!
i think i've seen like 3 runners in the past 2 months.

but yeah, i love the betta too. they have the best personalities.

great looking tank, i can't wait to see it mature. looks awesome!!!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

hairgrass is a pretty easy plant. how are you dosing and running co2? whats your light like?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

How about a FTS?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

looks the same as last time  

plants didnt come so nothing added  

hairgrass has been scootin along nicely, starting to get denser. 

and the HM is kinda flattening out, gotta learn how to trim it lol


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

oh snap, homies gone pressurized!! 

Won an Azoo reg, solenoid, and needle valve for 58 shipped off eBay now hopefully my rents will buy me a co2 tank for my birthday early


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

youll love pressurized, now you have a big choice to make: timer or ph controller. i reccomend both (timer to shut the CO2 off at night, ph controller to keep it stable during the day).


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im going with just a timer. and maybe when i have a surplus of cash ill go for a pH controller. its a nice little tool to have, but not exactly necessary.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

So the plants from ebay came in today. 

I didnt know that leftover steak trays were suitable shipping containers... 










Lets just say i let the seller have it... There was supposed to be anywhere from 48-90 stems. I can count about 20.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I dont think I have gotten plants form any where but the sns here and from APC in 2 years or more.



chris127 said:


> So the plants from ebay came in today.
> 
> I didnt know that leftover steak trays were suitable shipping containers...
> 
> ...


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Did they come from Texas?? Hmmm, something fishy about that seller...??


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Yeah they came from texas. thank god paypal is amazingly protective of their customers now. I better get a refund. and if i dont, i cant afford any more plants


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Sorry about your plants. That's a really dodgey way to do business. No worries! You have some nice stems heading your way now. 
And don't worry, I remembered to include some little surprises. You just happened to catch me on a day with some scissors and an over grown tank. :hihi:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

mizu-chan said:


> Sorry about your plants. That's a really dodgey way to do business. No worries! You have some nice stems heading your way now.
> And don't worry, I remembered to include some little surprises. You just happened to catch me on a day with some scissors and an over grown tank. :hihi:


Mizu your my hero! lol 

i couldnt get yours out today, my dad left before i could package it up so im sending out yours wednesday with some extra goodies as well. :fish:


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Hehe, no problem at all!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i already opened up a dispute cause im pissssssssssssssssssssssssed! 

gonna go play COD4 and release some stress









:icon_conf


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey I sent you some plants too:hihi:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

chris127 said:


> Lets just say i let the seller have it... There was supposed to be anywhere from 48-90 stems. I can count about 20.


maybe the stumps of the stems broken into 3 peices each count?
lol

S&S here is pretty much the best place to get plants. here people dont try to scam you, and the few that do, only get maybe 1 or 2 people before everyone else finds out.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Ouch man!  What kind of plants were those supposed to be? Looks like some purple bamboo, wallichi and some other plant


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i was supposed to get.. 1 bunch = 8-15 plants/stems 
2 bunches Rotala sp. nanjenshan
1 bunch Ludwigia Arcuata
1 bunch E. tenellus
1 bunch Saggitaria Subdulata
1 bunch Bacopa Monnieri

the only reason i bought from ebay was to get it all from one place. i was really looking for all of those plants from one guy and it happened! but it was too good to be true


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Hey I sent you some plants too:hihi:


What up now? you sent me plants? how do you know where i live!!?? :icon_eek:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Well that was quick i already got a refund! i guess paypal disputes really mean business.


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## eric_c (Sep 25, 2008)

I bought from the steak-tray in Texas seller too - and asked for either replacements or a refund. I received the replacements last week and they were awesome - he/she must know they're having issues and tried to overcompensate. The original shipment was a total mess like yours.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

so i took out the hygro kompacta, moved the l. aro, added ludwigia repens and what i think is ludwigia repens x arcuata. waiting on some r. rotun to make a big bush with.

i finally like how this scape is coming together. im learning to trim the HM into a bush and its going well 

also, my parents are down with buying me a co2 tank for my early birthday gift so i should be pressurized by the weekend  

now i need the amanos to come in to eat the thread algae thats growing... 

i'll update with some pics soon.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

minor pictoral update. more plants come tomorrow so im not done yet. 










lmao at the diffusers on the glass :hihi:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

More Blyxa!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

its coming!  

where though? i was thinking of putting it in front of the l. aro


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Nice hm bush! I like that p. gayii also  Why are the diffusers like that? lol


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

clwatkins10 said:


> Nice hm bush! I like that p. gayii also  Why are the diffusers like that? lol


lol cause i know if i let them sit on my desk something will happen. so of course the only logical thing to do was stick them on the side of my tank


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

the welding supply stores around me want $100 + tax for a 5lb tank, NOT COOL. 

so im going to order from here... $70 shipped, i should get it by monday or tuesday 

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/gas-cylinders-pid-430A-5E.html


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## reynolds_brad (Oct 20, 2008)

chris127 said:


> I FOUND A FRY. the water was 100% new minus what came out of the shrimp tank when i did a water change.
> 
> i did put some sunset hygro in there from 20H. and by put i mean pruned it then threw it across the room into the 20L. it must have made the flight stuck to some floaters! i'm pretty sure its a zebra danio fry.
> 
> ...


isnt that cool when that happens. I did a trimming a few weeks back and killed the hiding ground for a bunch of baby black neon tetras in my 75 gal. they all made it and now i have 15 full size and 8 little ones. I was amazed that my goromy's didnt eat them. 


cool tank by the way.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Reg coming monday, co2 tank coming by mid-week. 

amanos and rotala(thank you so much mizu!!!) came today. i took the WCMM's out because i was afraid of them harassing the amanos and the b. brigittae came out of the bushes and are schooling around.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Not many fish will give Amano shrimp any trouble. Unless they're big enough to eat the shrimp


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

How many amanos did you get and where did you get them from?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Not many fish will give Amano shrimp any trouble. Unless they're big enough to eat the shrimp


thats what i thought. then i saw the dominant white cloud picking on the smallest amano. :icon_neut



clwatkins10 said:


> How many amanos did you get and where did you get them from?


i got six from mgamer on AC. milalic has some too i think.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

updated list of all the algae i have: 
Cyano(i think, something is turning blue under the substrate against the glass:icon_conf)
BBA 
Thread
Staghorn
GSA+GDA - not a problem though 

i learned how hard it can be maintaining a high-tech tank  if the amanos, excel, and pressurized co2 cant kill it im going to start over. but this time i'll do it right, i'll start with aquasoil, pressurized co2, and a set in stone EI routine. 

wish me luck :icon_cool


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok. here are some suggestions:

cyano: if its under the substrate, who cares? but make sure it cant spread anywhere else. try to do some vacuuming, dose more N, increase flow, and maybe dose maracyn (will not harm your N bacteria. i have dose maracyn 4 times for various reason and never had a minicycle). 

thread: get a SAE. SAE rock. and more stable fertz and CO2. manually remove what you can.

staghorn: see above.

GSA: some more P.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i cant pay 20 bucks to order an sae since none of my lfs will order them. and im down 2 amanos for reasons i dont know. i cant dose more N cause its already at 30ppm, which from what i understand is high.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Excel?

How bout you just stick DIY CO2 tubing into your filter intake...


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

excel is for OD'ing the algae. i do have my co2 in the filter. and its annoying the crap out me lol i cant wait till the tank and reg come... 

uy why is my pH so high... out of the tap its 7.8, just checked it for the first time in a while. 

does AS II lower pH more than AS I?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

idk which one lowers ph more, but CO2 will lower ph pretty good.
both ASs nuke your kh though. mine is below 1 (3-4 out of the tap).


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Glad you got the plants in alright! Any pics of them in the tank?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

later tonight when they stretch out more


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

so ive regained hope in this tank. im not going to start over but instead i'll (if the amanos cant clear out the algae) pull up the hairgrass foreground, bleach dip it, and replant what survives. mizu chans rotala looked to good to throw out and it gave me the inspiration to carry on 

i will also not be changing the scape any time soon roud:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

and a picture...


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wait you have shrimp in the tank but you don't have a prefilter?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Wait you have shrimp in the tank but you don't have a prefilter?


dont worry, theyre HUGE. they dwarf my boraras. the slits arent big enough for anything to fit into them. but when the cherries come tomorrow im going rig up a prefilter.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

No I mean about the babies...


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

theres no babies. all of my cherries were slaughtered by the WCMM's


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh ok:hihi:

How easy was the Eheim to prime at first?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

dang easy. its like 3 feet below my tank so gravity did all the work


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

hey when the hairgrass is all healthy and everything do you mind if i have some?


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Looking nice. Do you need more Rotala? I can give you a bunch more if you need it. With the S&S thing I haven't been able to offer some up for grabs, so I'm giving you first choice! Let me know. I can send you some stems with roots. Maybe around 20.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

I can give you a bunch too I'll even throw in a nice, big Crypt Becketii


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks guys but im going to grow these out and replant them, i need the learning experience


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

The learning experience is good, but what you also need is plant mass. You do not have enough plant material to handle all the lights, ferts and CO2. You're definitely on the right track, but you have to stuff the tank with plants.

Also, let the plants you have now have a chance to get well rooted and start growing strong. They will help fend off the algae.

BBA is caused by fluctuating CO2. I think thread is caused by too much light with too little plant growth, and staghorn I believe generally comes when there are water quality issues.

To treat all of these, the first thing you want to do is lower your lighting. No more than 9 hours total with only a 5 hour noon burst of both lights. Keep working the CO2 until you get it at a stable 30ppm. If you have a drop checker, the color should be almost yellow. Keep your ferts dosed religiously and do not skip the weekly water changes.

So (1) CO2 at its highest level
(2) EI ferts religiously (no skipping or doing it too late in the day)
(3) Plant mass, take all offers for plants even if you don't plan to keep them
(4) NOW turn your bright lights on. This should always be your last step.

BBA: Cut off all leaves and stems that have it. Squirt 3X regular dose of Excel directly on BBA (it will not hurt your amanos). Do this every night until you get rid of the stuff. It'll take awhile.

Staghorn: Cut if off and make sure you keep up with your water changes. This one's not hard to get rid of.

Hair/Thread Algae: Remove what you can and kill the rest with Excel just like with the BBA. The amanos will only eat it if it's short. They don't eat the long strands.

And one other thing... be more patient before you move things around. You need to get the tank stabilized. Once it's stabilized, then if you want to move stuff around, you can. But you'll have a lot of other healthy, well established plants to keep things stable while you move things.

Your tank will look great. It already has a very nice scape design. Just give it more time to mature while you work to get everything stabilized.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Thanks complexity for all the advice, i will listen to it 

my lights are only on for 7 hours, 5 are noon burst at full strength. 

what you dont see is the foating mass of plants i took out for the pic lol  a bunch of hygro and ludwigia i dont have planted, which is using up some nutrients as well. 

co2 is fluctuating but its the best i can do with DIY, the reg came today and i should have the tank by wednesday, so i'll be set with that 

i dose when i get home at 3 when the lights have been on for an hour.. is that too late? should i dose in the morning before i go to school? 

im also cutting my dosing in half and i might shorten my burst time to 3 hrs until its choc full o' plants.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

your tank looks good. too good to redo at this point. your shrimp will help with the algae, but not on their own, you need to do some of the work.
here is what i did to get rid of hair algae:

1. good CO2. probably the most important thing. nutrients like NPK and micros are used for structure, as is the carbon in CO2, but CO2 is the food. it holds the energy, and is absolutely vital. when you get the pressurized system, get it precise, 30 ppm or so for the entire photoperiod.

2. fertz. good dosing. EI works, great for a lot of people, just dont skip. also, if possible lower your iron dosing a tiny bit. for some reason, it help me with my tank. i didnt really look into it, so it could be something else entirely, just at the same time. but i suggest you try it, and watch closely for slowed growth or defficiency signs.

3. SAEs. they love hair algae. i really suggest you try and get 1 young one (about 2" is good, 1.5"-3" is best).

4. more plants. hornwort is a good choice. other floaters, and fast-growing stems (like L. sessiliflora) make good sponge plants too.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i am on a EI routine and my co2 is on its way. lol said that a bunch of times. im talking with my LFS to order a lot of sae's (i told them i wanted 10 so they think i mean business, but im only going to get 1) and i will try to get a hold of some nutrient hogs, lord knows i could use some lol. 

Thanks marko!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)




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## LindaB (Aug 29, 2008)

So shiny and purty :icon_cool


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

LindaB said:


> So shiny and purty :icon_cool


i know, it looks like treasure :hihi:


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## emmanuelchavez (Apr 20, 2008)

chris127 said:


> and a picture...


 
I must say, this is totally awesome! :icon_eek:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks! its not that great, though lol. at least ive started to form my scape. i should have that rotala filled in by xmas and then it will really start to take shape.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Don't minimize your scape. It looks great!

Congrats on the CO2. You'll really love the results. When you get it to 30ppm or higher, you should find that the BBA will stop spreading. It does not grow well with that high of CO2. Then, all that would be left is to kill or remove the existing BBA.

One hour after lights are on should be okay for the ferts. I don't know if dosing it in the morning (hours before the lights come on) would be better or not. Someone else will have to help there.

I do not recommend cutting the EI ferts in half. All that does is dilute the ferts so the plants now get half of the ferts they used to. It does not mean that the plants will suck out all the ferts from the water, leaving the water fert free to avoid algae. This is why plant mass is so important. While the EI program is flexible, major changes to compensate for low plant mass will not achieve the same results as full dosing with more plants. At least that's my theory on it based on my experience and information gathered by those who are more experienced.

BTW, what is the name of the plant that's just left of the center? It's bright green, bushy and has small leaves. It looks really nice! How did you get it to take on that shape? I might want to get my own plant like it.


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Complexity said:


> BTW, what is the name of the plant that's just left of the center? It's bright green, bushy and has small leaves. It looks really nice! How did you get it to take on that shape? I might want to get my own plant like it.


I believe that's HM. (Hemianthus micranthemoides)


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks, mizu-chan! I've added it to my WTB list. It's really pretty when grown like that.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks again complexity. but why wouldnt less ferts mean less nutrients free (unused by plaints, available for algae) in the water? and now ive got the co2 but i forgot the tubing :hihi: 

yeah thats hm. you have to trim it alot to form a bush cause it grows pretty fast under highlight. i forgot to trim it WC day and its starting to loose shape


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im fully pressurized! i ghetto'ed a bubble counter and now im up and running  the diffuser is really annoying, i think im going to build a reactor over turkey break. so if anyone has some websites on a DIY reactor, feel free to send them my way


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

chris127 said:


> im fully pressurized! i ghetto'ed a bubble counter and now im up and running  the diffuser is really annoying, i think im going to build a reactor over turkey break. so if anyone has some websites on a DIY reactor, feel free to send them my way


It isn't that hard. Go to HD, get 2 grey 1/2 inch threaded elbow pvc barbs, a little bit of 2 inch pvc pipe (around 16 inches), a 2 inch pvc coupling, a 2 inch pvc 90 degree elbow and two 2 inch pvc bushings (plugs one end of the elbow and one end of the coupling and have holes in them that the barbs screw into). So, from top to bottom:
hose barb
bushing
coupling
x length of pipe
elbow
bushing
hose barb

Then drill a hole in the pipe, towards the bottom that the co2 tubing goes through and put the tubing through it. Be sure to use pvc cement. The outtake from the filter goes into the top of the reactor so that the water is pushing against the rising co2 bubbles. It should cost less than $15


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

hell it should be free my dad has all of that in the garage! 

thanks


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

If you'd still like a link, here's a good one:

http://www.rexgrigg.com/diy-reactor.htm

Congratulations on going pressurized! I bet you'll love it!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks for the site!

i think the thread is starting to go away but some gooey white algae is forming on the dw (i know its not dw fungus). the hairgrass is spreading quicker so it seems to be out-competing the algae for food, yay! and the p. gayii took off great and looks amazing when it pearls.


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## emmanuelchavez (Apr 20, 2008)

Complexity said:


> Don't minimize your scape. It looks great!


Ditto! I have this great ability where I get to use my imagination to see what a tank will look like when it's grown in and full (it makes studying geology easier, :hihi. Your tank definitely is on the right track. :thumbsup:


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Don't you just love algae? :hihi:

I think I have had just about every algae I see on the lists of algae. I'm finally learning how to control it better. Be sure you have enough plant mass to compete with the algae so it won't take over. If you don't have a large plant mass yet because you're waiting for your plants to grow in, toss some hornwort in the tank to take up the slack. But it seems you're already getting there with the hairgrass out competing the algae!

BTW, after asking about your HM plant, the very next day I received a care package from lescarpenter, and I had forgotten that he was sending me some HM! So now I get to grow my own bush! :biggrin: Yours has certainly inspired me.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Complexity said:


> Don't you just love algae? :hihi:
> 
> I think I have had just about every algae I see on the lists of algae. I'm finally learning how to control it better. Be sure you have enough plant mass to compete with the algae so it won't take over. If you don't have a large plant mass yet because you're waiting for your plants to grow in, toss some hornwort in the tank to take up the slack. But it seems you're already getting there with the hairgrass out competing the algae!
> 
> BTW, after asking about your HM plant, the very next day I received a care package from lescarpenter, and I had forgotten that he was sending me some HM! So now I get to grow my own bush! :biggrin: Yours has certainly inspired me.


haha thanks. im getting some hornwort soon to help.

and making a HM bush isnt too hard, just takes some very wet time lol


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Yea! I get to play with my plants in the water so I can make a bush! :icon_lol:

You'll have to tell me your technique. I like the way yours looks.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

HM?
just hack at it. the plant grows bushy no matter what. the key is just to plant it like a carpet, not a background stem. it will grow like that, but the side shoots will eventually fill in the whole area and then it will grow up in a round-ish shape. then you just trim to make it rounder and keep it the size you want.


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## mistercoffee (Nov 8, 2008)

emmanuelchavez said:


> I must say, this is totally awesome! :icon_eek:


I agree! I swear the more I look at other peoples tanks the more discouraged I am about my own. :icon_cry:


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## emmanuelchavez (Apr 20, 2008)

mistercoffee said:


> I agree! I swear the more I look at other peoples tanks *the more discouraged I am about my own*. :icon_cry:


Don't get discouraged! I can probably send you a plant care package like I sent brian when I send you that eco.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah dont get discouraged! look at other tanks for inspiration. 

you guys will hate me and i'll probably get banned from the forum for a week for too much time spent changing my tank but i couldnt let a bag of aquasoil and stones just _sit _there...... 

think of it as a rebirth  the algae was mocking me from every little thread. i tried to bleach dip my plants and then replant them but i let them sit too long (damn family guy) and they all melted:icon_cry: the good thing is i didnt bleach the hairgrass with the rest of them so that is saved and now algae+snail free 

(i know i suck at taking pictures but once i fill it up it should look better)


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Noooooo it was such a beautiful tank:icon_cry:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

you should have seen it in person.... not so much


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That scape looks pretty good. It needs some height though.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

You did what? :icon_eek: And your tank was beginning to fill in. 

Your new scape looks good so far. But if you keep rescaping every time the plants just begin to start growing, I'm going to put you in a time out!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Complexity said:


> You did what? :icon_eek: And your tank was beginning to fill in.
> 
> Your new scape looks good so far. But if you keep rescaping every time the plants just begin to start growing, I'm going to put you in a time out!


i know i know but i needed an excuse to change to aquasoil  

this is turning out to be an iwagumi and i didnt want it to be :icon_neut 

oh well, im planting the hairgrass and we'll see where it goes from there


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## Captain Hooked (Oct 13, 2008)

Did anyone else see that coming? :eek5:

I kept checking in on you to see your growth, and suddenly.....gone. 

Oh well, you can do it again. I like the new layout. I'm sending you some good luck......


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

planted some hairgrass and downoi...


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Very nice, but I think your tank is not level..


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

murderer!

it might not have been the time. some plants cant take a bleach dip, no matter how short. HM is one of them.

you had algae problems, so now......youre gonna do an iwagumi?
im sorry, that doesnt add up, lol.
iwagumis are more prone to algal blooms, since they have less fast-growing stems.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Wow. At this rate, you should have a nicely scaped planted tank in another 2 years...

Patience, patience, patience is one of the most important ingredients of a planted tank.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha wow, I agree, patience is key! If you ugraded to aquasoil (more nutrients) and are going iwagumi style with slow growing plants (not nutrient sponges) i fear you're in for a SERIOUS algae infestation if you're not careful! I hope you don't get another gorgeous scape (your other one truly was beautiful) and get some algae and destroy it! There are better, albeit not as quick, ways of dealing with algae than bleach dips. Again it comes back to patience, beautiful tanks don't happen overnight! 

Anyway, enough of that, I do really like the new layout and look forward to seeing it grow in! Good luck!


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

I like it! I'm really excited to see this clear up.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i got a ton of hornwort (it could fill a 5.5 completely) today.

im only running one fixture for 7 hours and my co2 is at about 3bps. 

i switched to aquasoil for the following reasons...  
1. my tap pH is high, about 7.6 -7.8, with a moderate gh/kh, good for africans 
2. this is my only high tech tank, and i want to grow plants like erios and toninas so soft, acidic water is a must. 
3. all of the nutrients mean faster plant growth, and as you all know, i am impatient  
4. the bba and thread infesting my hairgrass was really #$(*%& me off and the death of my amano shrimp wasnt making it any better

I really weighed all my options of starting up a high tech 15 long, but it didnt make sense to buy a new tank ($40) and a new light ($65) when i already have everything i need for a high tech 20. 

so i hope you all can forgive me for being a change addict, but as a wise man once said, "Yes We Can."


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

mizu-chan said:


> I like it! I'm really excited to see this clear up.


thanks mizu, im sorry i killed your beautiful plants, i hope they can recover in my pond. 

:fish:


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

chris127 said:


> thanks mizu, im sorry i killed your beautiful plants, i hope they can recover in my pond.
> 
> :fish:


Not a problem 
You just have to make the tank 324739284 times cooler than it was before! :hihi:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

mizu-chan said:


> Not a problem
> You just have to make the tank 324739284 times cooler than it was before! :hihi:


i hope i do! ive got a while to think about my plant list cause im leaving for thanksgiving break so i cant impulse buy hehe


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## Captain Hooked (Oct 13, 2008)

*oh yeah...*



roybot73 said:


> Patience, patience, patience is one of the most important ingredients of a planted tank.



....easy for you to say, superstar! Your 60P practically EXPLODED with lushy greenies!! :wink:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Captain Hooked said:


> ....easy for you to say, superstar! Your 60P practically EXPLODED with lushy greenies!! :wink:


Due in large part to lots of PATIENCE!!!:thumbsup:


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## Captain Hooked (Oct 13, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Due in large part to lots of PATIENCE!!!:thumbsup:


:biggrin: ok, ok....


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

and the money to buy top of the line everything up front.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

chris127 said:


> and the money to buy top of the line everything up front.


Not necessarily -- I pieced that together over the course of several months before I even thought about putting a drop of water in it. Ergo -- patience:thumbsup:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

well im young and impatient, so i suck at aquascaping :thumbsup:


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

I recommend you have a play tank to mess with. I have one good tank, one nano, and then one I stick my hands in. It's a good way to go


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

chris127 said:


> well im young and impatient, so i suck at aquascaping :thumbsup:


Ahh, come on You had the start of something good -- I think this new incarnation will be pretty sweet too! Plan it, _then_ plan*t *it:thumbsup: Then enjoy it! (keep yer mitts out of it too:hihi


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im not one to deal with algae, esp when i cant get to tools to get rid of algae. all my lfs cannot and will not order me Excel, SAE's, or amanos. i have to blow all of my money to get anything i want shipped to me(and the amanos died when they got here, so that pushed me over the edge and made me bleach the plants)

and the rarest plants i can find in a 25 mile radius is creeping jenny. aquascaping in a 55+ state really sucks cause dogs and horses dominate the pet industry. HOW MANY JACKETS DOES YOUR TOY POODLE NEED? CMON! 

edit: lfs ordered flying foxes as a subsitute for SAE's. i was just like; no...... :icon_cry:

[/rant] 

ive got the hairgrass planted and hornwort floating. eventually i hope to have a bush of Tonina belem and erio type 2 on the left by the filter intake. and then working my way along the right i hope to add another stem(blyxa?) in the middle behind the middle rock formation, some blyxa in the valley, and then some rotala verticallis and p. stellatus behind the right rock formation. and when i can afford one and the tank is set in stone, i hope to get an erio mini or cinerium.  

i cant really mess with this scape because moving the rocks will probably destroy my AS and cloud my water for weeks, so im stuck with it  and i'm really looking forward to watching the hairgrass spread in the AS, i know in my low tech 10 it spread pretty quick still too. 

now im determined to wait and see how things grow. ive got good soil, good ferts, good co2, good lighting, and high hopes  

[/essay]


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

So do you have a clear shot of the tank? I'll update my 20 if you update yours


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

if you consider clear a cloudy pee yellow, then yes i do  

i take a picture in a minute once i do a pwc.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

pictures in a minute, batteries are charging. would it look weird if i had a school of 12 boraras brigittae and 12 boraras maculatus? would they school together? i like brigittae but i want some diversity in this tank, like a real river system would have.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

batteries lived for one shot... the hairgrass field extends back in a point towards the intake. thats where i plan to put the tonina belem and erio type 2. 

i'll take a pic of the shiny co2 tank and reg later


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Oooh cloudy:hihi:

Is that an Eheim 2215? Or 2213?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

dude i love your avatar 

its a 2215. got it for cheap off ebay. i have to cut the flow down alot so i dont blow away the AS.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I really like that scape. It's pretty awesome


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

clwatkins10 said:


> I really like that scape. It's pretty awesome


thanks! it was fun playing in the dirt. my mom thought i was 6


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

from what I hear, different but similar species of the small boraras will school together, i toyed with the idea of getting brigittae and merah, someone on here said they had both and that they school together. I have no personal experience with it though because I went with embers tetras and b. brigittae, but it sounds like a mixed school could work. And i think it would look really neat 

very cool scape too btw!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, that scape looks nice. 
but you need some stems for the startup, or it WILL algaefy.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> wow, that scape looks nice.
> but you need some stems for the startup, or it WILL algaefy.


thanks. 

and i said it before, but ill say it again i guess. i have a ton of floating hornwort in there. i mean enough to cover 1/3 of the tank. ive got 4 boxes coming in monday (hopefully) full of plants too.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

chris127 said:


> would it look weird if i had a school of 12 boraras brigittae and 12 boraras maculatus? would they school together


I have both in one tank, and they do school together. However, they're not easy to tell apart at first glance so they won't give you the diversity you're wanting.

I like your new scape! Now if you can just keep your hands out of it! :icon_lol:

The answer to algae is to not start all over again. All that does is put the tank right back through the algae stage. Most tanks go through an algae stage as each particular tank's balance is tweaked.

It's not a matter of _IF_ you'll have algae, but what kind and how much. It's the tank's way of telling you what it needs, and no two tanks are identical. The best answer is to jam pack it with plants, CO2 and ferts and then slowly increase the lighting. Once you start seeing the first signs of algae, decrease the lighting and work to remove whatever algae has grown. As long as you act quickly, you shouldn't get a big outbreak. However, even a big outbreak can be handled easily enough.

Learn how to deal with algae is a very important part of the overall learning curve.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i agree with complexity on that. there will always be SOME algae. but if you can identify what is needed to correct the situation soon enough, the algae will not spread, and with cleaner it will be gone in days. 
thats what happened in my tank. 1 day some algae, next day a lot of algae every, after that i lowered the light, started to dose, added cleaners, and put a tiny pinch more CO2, and it was gone really fast.

whats your light on? i suggest a max of 8 hours ATM. and planetinverts has a large selection of shrimp, you could add some to help by eating algae. getting your hands on a young SAE would be best though. shrimp dont even compare.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

1 light, 36W for 7 hours


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

oh, thats actually lowish light. unless its T5/HOT5/VHOT5


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah, t5no 

hairgrass can grow at low light, esp in AS. i did an experiment with it at 15W over a 10 gallon and it still sent out runners. once i add the stems on monday or when ever they come i'll run both bulbs concurrently for 5-6 hours and dose half EI. but that depends on the amount of plants that come. if its less, i'll cut it down some.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay, plants are coming monday so i need to figure out where to put them. 

im thinking... erio type 2 on the right behind the rocks, 

and
option 1 
tonina belem on the left next to the glass, rotala vert on the left next to the the tonina, and ludwigia brevipes behind those. 

or option 2
rotala sp. green or rotun forest on the left by the glass and then rotala vert next to that, and tonina belem next to the rotala vert, all heading towards the center rocks where blyxa will be exploding out from them

help me scape!!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Try my favorite scaping method...

_"Oh, here's an empty spot!"_ :hihi:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i have only seen the tank head on, so i dont know the depth involved with the hardscape. sorry but i cant help.

erio 2? tonina?
it may have been smarter to wait another week or 2 to make sure you dont get them algaefied in case your tank experiences a bloom.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

okay tiny cycle update. 

pH - ~6.2-6.4, the greens really faint 
ammo - .50ppm
no3 - ~7.0ppm 
no2 - ~.10ppm

i bought a drop checker. is that basically the same thing as a pH test? cause if so, why did i spend $15 on it :icon_neut


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

you spent 15 bucks because it is a ph test that is affected only by gases, and only those that are weak acids and change back to gases easily. because it will be affected by almost only CO2 in your tank. and because it is constant. because you walk by your tank and know exactly what you CO2 levels are, and if they need adjusting.
they are worth it.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> you spent 15 bucks because it is a ph test that is affected only by gases, and only those that are weak acids and change back to gases easily. because it will be affected by almost only CO2 in your tank. and because it is constant. because you walk by your tank and know exactly what you CO2 levels are, and if they need adjusting.
> they are worth it.


okay just as long as its worth it lol. how long did your AS cycle take with your established filter?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

it took very little time. it was under a week. 
but my tap is full of bacteria. i cycled a 10 gal that i bred bettas in with no biomedia (i did dump hornwort and duckweed in though) in just a week.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

your tap is full of bacteria? im at a little over a week, and should be fully cycled by the end of the week. are you still getting tannins? my water continues to look like tea before the daily 70% wc.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

chris127 said:


> your tap is full of bacteria? im at a little over a week, and should be fully cycled by the end of the week. are you still getting tannins? my water continues to look like tea before the daily 70% wc.


Purigen works wonders for the AS tannin issue:thumbsup:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i know, but my lfs wont order it in :icon_cry:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

http://www.bigalsonline.com/edealin...=&sortby=&query=purigen&submit.x=0&submit.y=0


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

haha but i dont need to buy anything else. stupid $9 shipping lol.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Usually, the savings in price and tax are more than the price of shipping. YMMV. :smile:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ymmv? (im acronym illiterate lol :hihi i might be getting a light for my 10 off bigals so i'll add some purigen to that order. 

i planted some plants. i'll take a pic wednesday when i get more. the hairgass looks all melty (im guessing from the bleach dip) but the blyxa is perking up. should i start EI dosing next week after a final cycling water change and theres lots of plant mass in? 

oh yeah also upped my lighting. both fixtures on concurrently for 6 hours. co2 on all 6 hours too. 

cycling update! 
ammo- 0 ppm 
no3- ~3 ppm 
no2 - 0 ppm 
pH - 6.4 

im going to try putting some cherries in soon.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary, meaning that while the statement is true for the person making the post, they recognize that it may or may not be true for all people.

You're so close to getting more plants that a few days of dosing ferts or not shouldn't matter either way. My best suggestion would be to keep the lights on the lowish side, and when you get your other plants in, raise the lights and begin dosing at the same time. But as I said, if you're only looking at a few days, it really shouldn't matter either way. Just keep your eye out for algae, and if you start to get some, lower the lighting.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

lol thanks  plants are coming thursday instead. lots of rotala, you will see  

til then, heres a pic... i'm still trying to figure out this camera but im getting close to what it really looks like.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

plants added... Rotala macandra, rotala verticillaris, blyxa japonica, erio type 2, ludwigia brevipes. the left is reserved for rotala sp green and tonina belem


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Wow, nice list of new plants! Please take a picture to show us. I want to see!

I should clarify. I mean take pictures of the plants in addition to the FTS. :smile:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ill see what i can do with the camera tonight!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Nice!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

looking good.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks guys  

i cant take any pics right now cause my mom has the camera but tomorrow i'm adding some more so i'll post another update. 

i put my brigittae in and theyre showing the best color they ever have before. im attributing that to the magic power of AS


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm so jealous of everyone's colorful brigittaes. Mine simply refuse to color up. Some have, but most have not. So I'll live vicariously through yours!

Looking forward to the pics. :smile:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Aw Vicki! I have a feeling you just ended up with an inordinately large number of females unfortunately, because you take great care of your fish so I can't imagine it would be any kind of issue like that. 

Chris, The tank is looking great! I really like the contrast of the bushy jungle on the right and the open "field" on the left, feels like the edge of a forest or something. I don't know if that is how it's going to stay, but if it is, I like it, and if not, I'm sure I'll like that too!  
Also, I'm glad to hear your brigittae are doing well! Have you decided what other small fish you want to put in there with them to give some color diversity? 

Can't wait to see the pics!


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

hmmm...those plants look familar. :icon_cool I like the way you used the Rotala macrandra between the L. brevipes and R. verticillaris. Hopefully you can keep it red. I also like the layout so far with a "forest" in the back right corner and open field in the front.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Karackle said:


> Aw Vicki! I have a feeling you just ended up with an inordinately large number of females unfortunately, because you take great care of your fish so I can't imagine it would be any kind of issue like that.


I didn't always take the best care of them, starting with having 1/2 of them getting trapped in my filter when I first got them, but they're getting really good care now. I put them with my other Boraras, thinking that if they don't color up in that tank, then they have to be females. I'm beginning to conclude that most of them are females. Oh well. Luck of the draw, I guess.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

pics will come later, the rotala didnt come today  and the plants that did look pretty shabby. 

Karackle - Thanks! im going to have a forest of rotala sp green 'needle leaf' on the left where the bare spot is. i've got 5 more brigittae on the way and 6 cpd's too. that ups my school to 17 and then i'll have some mid/bottom dwellers  

cah925 - the plants that you sent me are beautiful. they rotala vert opened right up and the mac is starting to turn a bit yellow-pink on me. when i start the ferts monday it should perk up some. the ludwigia brevipes is a lot nicer than i thought it would be, the needle leaves contrast great with the rotala mac. 

complexity, sorry to hear about your sorority of brigittae  when you get the chance, get some more becuase the males look amazing in their full color, especially the dominant male(s)


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I'd love to get more brigittaes, but it'll have to wait. I'm only spending what I need to get my current tanks in good shape because my husband has been laid off. So spending another $100 on more brigittaes isn't in my current plans. Maybe later. Depends on how long he's out of work.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I think that will look really good to fill in that back corner. Do you plan to only put that needleaf along the back wall and leave some open space in the front left where the "field" of hairgrass is? (I assume that's the plan or what's the point of painstakingly planting the hairgrass? but i figured i'd ask ) 

Can't wait to see the updated pics!

Vicki - so sorry to hear about your husband, I hope he finds a new position soon so you can get those brigittae!  Well not ONLY so you can get your fish of course!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

complexity - sorry to hear about that  

karackle - yes, thats the plan  and maybe some blyxa to break up the hairgrass and rotala.


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## Captain Hooked (Oct 13, 2008)

Chris,

..turned out very nice; excellent job! I had no doubts. 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: 

Sometimes, when you have a vision, you have to act on it immediately or it's lost. It looks like you knew exactly what you wanted to do with this. I understand why you broke down the other scape (algae aside). 

I'm looking forward to seeing your 45-p project.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Thanks Cap'n! lol 

i actually didnt have an idea for a scape until i put the rocks in. i just kept moving them, standing back to see, moving them, and standing back. then when i found the rocks where i liked them i decided on where the plants would go. but even then it wasnt set in stone, i planted the plants as i got them and came up with the scape on a whim. 

i really like it now though, i have the rotala in place and the plants are looking great. the tonina is bouncing back from arriving infested with green diatoms. i dont want to update with pics now because i havent been able to keep up with daily water changes since finals are here but once i get the tannins to go away and the rotala grows in i'll post some.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

tank looks great!!!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

monkeyruler90 said:


> tank looks great!!!


thanks  

the CPD's, brigittae, amanos, and a hitchhiker guppy came in today from Invertz  the CPD's are taking turns leaving the bush of brevipes and exploring a couple inches of the tank, and then quickly darting back. the guppy has been hunting for food ever since i opened the bag lol. whats wierd is the 11 brigittae i originally had in the tank took to hiding with their new friends too.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

one quick FTS.... im still working on reviving the tonina from shipping so i havent scaped it yet. and all the fish are still hiding lol


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

It's looking great! I think the addition of the bushy plants on the left while still leaving an open field looks great!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks karackle  im really loving the hairgrass field too. i cant wait til this tank is all grown in. 

i think ive really learned alot. i havent touched a plant in this tank since i first put them in. im getting more and more patient each day  

and i just learned that the guppy is an endler! she's probably preggo so i get endler babies soon! im wondering if i should take her out of my main tank so it doesnt get over populated. can one endler pose an over population problem?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Tank looks nice!:thumbsup:



chris127 said:


> and i just learned that the guppy is an endler! she's probably preggo so i get endler babies soon! im wondering if i should take her out of my main tank so it doesnt get over populated. can one endler pose an over population problem?


Yes they do, since the females eat little to no baby Endlers.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Hey, it looks awesome. It's very lush!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

tank looks nice.

see youve got some SAE?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Zoo - i was kinda hoping some endler fry would be boraras breakfast, but the boraras are probably as big as the fry  

cl - i really attribute that to the AS. im dosing _very_ lean because i always seem to kill my shrimp when i dose  all the fish are hiding in the plants, its hard to believe theres 24 fish in this tank! 

marko - no SAE's, just amanos, otos, and RCS. i also do daily hairgrass vacuumings to keep the diatoms at bay. the cherries are actually doing a good job eating the green diatoms.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

oh yeah, can any one suggest what i should put in the middle behind the rocks?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

chris127 said:


> Zoo - i was kinda hoping some endler fry would be boraras breakfast, but the boraras are probably as big as the fry


Oh I forgot you had the Boraras:hihi:

They may eat the newborn ones, but I'm not 100% sure.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

lol yeah i have 15 of them lol theyre just all scared today for some reason. maybe its the crappy weather?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, the fish the picture look so much like small SAE. 
well, whatever they are, so far they seem to be doing an ok job.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> wow, the fish the picture look so much like small SAE.
> well, whatever they are, so far they seem to be doing an ok job.


yeah theyre really effecient. theyre always fat and i dont feed them wafers so im assuming theyre eating lots of algae


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

chris127 said:


> oh yeah, can any one suggest what i should put in the middle behind the rocks?


How bout some Crypts and/or a red-colored Sword?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

crypts, maybe

sword, no. i dont like swords in small tanks lol


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

I think your tank is looking great. I think a crypt that is reddish will also look good behind your rocks and will give you a different leaf shape. That will compliment what you have very nicely. You could also do Polygonum sp 'Sao Paulo' for the same reasons.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i like the suggestion of a polygonum.. i really like this one. 

does anyone know the sp of this polygonum? on victri.net its labled polygonum sp. 'B'


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

Is it the Poly. sp. ruby? On second thought it can't be the ruby. The leaves are a little different (like heart shaped). Maybe _Polygonum sp._ 'Kawagoeanum'


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i think it looks like kawagoneum or how ever its spelt lol


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i dropped a light in the tank during a water change, now it wont start up


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ive been trying to dry this thing out for an hour. it wont start!   can my plants survive low light? 

i have.. 
Rotala green
Ludwigia brevipes 
Erio type 2
Rotala verticllaris (Pogostemon sp?) 
Dwarf hairgrass 
and blyxa japonica


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## emmanuelchavez (Apr 20, 2008)

chris127 said:


> ive been trying to dry this thing out for an hour. it wont start!   can my plants survive low light?
> 
> i have..
> Rotala green
> ...


I've had DH in low light in the past.
I had blyxa in low-light in my 100g for a long while with no ill-effects... I even had new offshoots. I can't really say anything about the others.

sorry about the lights.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

dangit i cant afford a new light  

im going to have to go low light on this one i guess.... thank god ive got my emersed crypts and anubias garden still. the only plants im going to replace are the erio and pogostemon sp.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So it might be too late for this, but a lot of times if you just let it dry, maybe even in front of a fan, for a few days (your plants might takea minor hit) and THEN try turning it on, you might get better luck. Pull out the bulb, pull out the little "Starter" fuse and let everything dry out. The worst thing you can do (this is why i say it might be too late) is try starting it when part of it is still wet. But if allowed to dry, most electronics are pretty forgiving about water damage. I learned the hard way that you're not supposed to try turning it on right away. But I had a phone dropped in a toilet, I opened it up, dried it with a hairdryer as best I could and then let it just sit for a week. When i turned it on, it worked perfectly. So my advice would be just let it be for a few days, if you have a heater or fan or something you can put it in front of that would be better, and then try it again. Good luck!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah ive got it sitting in the new room thats really dry right by the air vent. hopefully it will dry out!! it fell in the tank while it was on, i heard a sizzle, then it went out. i might open it up later to see if anythings fried.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

ooooh...a sizzle....that's not a good sign....there's always hope though...like i said, cell phone in a toilet still worked, and my friend has dropper her phone in a pool on more than one occasion (she's a diving coach, and yes, same phone each time) and the bloody thing still works perfectly!! 
You might need to try a new bulb, or a new starter fuse though too.

good luck, i hope it works! If not though, maybe you could add a couple of clip lights or a desk lamp with sprial CF (energy saver) bulbs for a lot less than a new high light hood, won't look pretty, but should keep your higher demand plants happy until you save up $ / have a birthday to get a new light.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

haha i just had my birthday and christmas so i'd have to get more catering jobs for any money  i dropped my phone in a cup of water (more like it took a magic bounce off the couch) and i dried it out in a bowl of rice and it still worked. but i think i might just keep it low light... we just bought a 75 gallon full set up off craigs list so once my dad and i finish the new room its going up and i'll need to spend some more time and money on that! if it werent for the new 45-P i got i'd be really mad but lifes going good for me so im not really affected by it too much


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha fair enough! sounds like you've got some really exciting projects to do anyway, well hopefulyl the light will work, otherwise, I think most of your stuff should be ok with the lowlight and I'm sure the tank will still look great!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

ive got my hands full  and thanks! hopefully my lowlight will grow plants like yours  you have great low tech tanks with great growth!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

certainly sounds like it, but with fun projects so that's the best kind of full hands to have I'd say!  

And thanks so much! I really appreciate the compliment, especially coming from someone with gorgeous tanks! :biggrin:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

haha thanks  my tanks arent that great though. theyre just full of pretty plants


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh if you're getting rid of the Pogostemon, I know someone who wants some

EDIT: Nvm, I thought that said Polygonum:hihi:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

trying to take advantage of my hardship?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

No sir:redface:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

haha im kidding.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh:tongue:

Is it P. Stellatus (however you spell that)?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

so a question- 

does 1.8 wpg necessitate co2 or ferts? could i get away with excel?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

chris127 said:


> haha thanks  my tanks arent that great though. theyre just full of pretty plants


Don't be so hard on yourself, the tanks are great, you've got a great eye for scaping!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

really? i think when i dont plan it out it looks better to me. last time i planned it, i tore it up in a week lol.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha well it's not about whether you plan it or not, it's just that the final product looks great! Some people have a better eye for doing what looks right as they go, some do better planning it out. Sounds like you do better doing it as you go, but that's ok! I don't really plan either, I can't picture it until i have the stuff in front of me.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah ive been learning alot. ive been browsing over all of the amano tanks and getting a feel for what goes good with what. now i want a Mini M lmao!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

so the lights shot  

i went ahead and replaced all the plants with lots of crypts, anubias, and some dwarf sag. and i added driftwood. i guess this will be a low light, low maintenance, shrimp and boraras haven. 

i'll take pics tonight.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)




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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

It doesn't look _that_ different:icon_roll


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i know lol i didnt move the rocks at all. i just had to take out all the high light plants which actually worked to my advantage because theyre in my 45-P and now i dont have to buy plants for that 

i'll take a better FTS later to show off all of the sweet plants i had growing in my emersed setups


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Very nice bro


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

thanks! and good job on getting a's on all your finals (facebook told me )

heres one more.. i like this pic better.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

heres a new plant list:

Anubias barteri var nana
Anubias barteri var nana 'petite'
Eleocharis parvula 
Saggitaria subulata 
Vallisneria spiralis 
Cryptocryne wendtii 'green'
Cryptocryne wendtii 'tropica' 
Cryptocryne parva
Bacopa monneiri 

i had all of the crypts and anubias growing in my emersed tank, which made the transition to low light easy on my wallet


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Wow, still looks great, sorry to hear about the lights, but it definitely looks like a beautiful haven for shrimp and boraras :biggrin:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im not too phased by the light (you can see its busted remains on my desk in the last pic..) ive got the other two tanks to keep me busy


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahahaha an excellent point! Glad you're somewhat ok with it then, good luck with the other tanks! I hope there will be journals!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

my new light came in today! same old coralife 2x18w T5, i love em  

anyway i drained this thing around christmas day because the hairgrass melted, my otos died, and the other fish wouldnt come out of hiding. i sold the boraras and plants for light money and the other guys are in the qt tank. i planted some HC and glosso emersed today soo hopefully those will take hold before the stems come around friday or saturday.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

what zee hellllll 

any idea why the otos died and the others hiding?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

there was an ammonia spike around the time the hairgrass melted. there were alot of fish in there (17 boraras, 6 cpds, a betta, 2 otos) so i guess they didnt take it very well :/


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

that couldnt have been it! you had to have a metric crap load of it to cause that big of an ammonia spike! man, this was a good rendition of the tank :/ maybe a hardier ground cover next time? something like a lilaeopsis or HC or elatine triandra or something?

GL man!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

yeah ive got glosso and HC growing emersed for now. stems come on saturday. i could never keep that hairgass clean of whatever algae it was. im kinda thinking that it could have been because i wasnt dosing phosphates (stupid me) and my tap gH is 0 (<- if that has anything to do with it?) ive got some gH booster coming so i'll be set on that. anyway, a new year a new scape, yippie...


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Can't wait to see the new light in action!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

mizu-chan said:


> Can't wait to see the new light in action!


im hoping it will end up somewhat like yours  i have lots of rotalas, blyxa, and limno aromatica coming so if it looks even half as good i'll be happy!


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

man, i really wanted that java fern!! darn work, next time im gonna check my email every hour on the hour!

the tank looks great!, where'd you order the light from again?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i got it from big als


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

nice, i was looking at it online earlier. i think dr foster smith has the same one but a bit cheaper.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i didnt know they carried t5NO fixtures?i thought they jsut had t5HO


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey you haven't updated this in a while


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

short story... 

everything melted (low light), sold the anubias, bought some glosso and a new light, and now im farming it and some HC emersed to repay my parents for that.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

RIP my 20 gallon algae farm, im tearing it down this weekend.

im taking the lights from this tank and putting them on my 75 because my dad said if we can do that than he'll buy me an RO filter  the AS will go in my 10(future crs tank???) and i'll be doing something with the emersed glosso and HC ive grown. anyone want it???


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

chris127 said:


> RIP my 20 gallon algae farm, im tearing it down this weekend.
> 
> im taking the lights from this tank and putting them on my 75 because my dad said if we can do that than he'll buy me an RO filter  the AS will go in my 10(future crs tank???) and i'll be doing something with the emersed glosso and HC ive grown. anyone want it???


did you say glosso!?
oh, wait, I have ug coming / I've always wanted to try glosso, but I want to try ug more


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

glossos a weed man, i think its the easiest carpet plant to grow.


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