# Do I Need To Cap Flourite?



## zerodameaon (Dec 2, 2014)

Capping fluorite is purely aesthetic unless you have fauna that need sand.


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## greaser84 (Feb 2, 2014)

You don't need to cap it. You certainly can if you want to but its not essential.


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## Tvadna (Jan 17, 2013)

Do you need to...
Cap? No 

Rinse? Yes


Do you want to...
Cap? Only if you want a different color or grow smaller foreground plants better

Rinse? You probably wish you did


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## Ahoya (Sep 24, 2014)

Tvadna said:


> Do you need to...
> Cap? No
> 
> Rinse? Yes
> ...


Oh for sure I wish I had rinsed it out. But with every water change, I'm able to siphon out a decent amount of that crap. It's a long project, definitely...


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

One main reason for capping. Preserving your base substrate because it won't be strait up interacting with your water. This means slower nutrient release and longer lasting for the base. Flourite is a good substrate but without capping, the nutrient life span of this substrate will probably be chopped in half through water changing, water current and planting.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't really see any point to using a cap with substrate unless you are building a dirted tank. There, I see it as something to help slow the diffusion of nutrients and such into the tank water, and also to keep it from getting stirred up constantly.

And flourite is inert, it won't noticeably break down in our lifetime under normal conditions. A lot of people use flourite to cap dirt.

I also don't bother rinsing flourite before use, I just use a sparybottle, and mist the substrate really heavily a few times while I'm planting, and then fill very carefully through a plate or sponge or something similar. Crystal clear water every time so far...


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

lochaber said:


> I don't really see any point to using a cap with substrate unless you are building a dirted tank. There, I see it as something to help slow the diffusion of nutrients and such into the tank water, and also to keep it from getting stirred up constantly.
> 
> And flourite is inert, it won't noticeably break down in our lifetime under normal conditions. A lot of people use flourite to cap dirt.
> 
> I also don't bother rinsing flourite before use, I just use a sparybottle, and mist the substrate really heavily a few times while I'm planting, and then fill very carefully through a plate or sponge or something similar. Crystal clear water every time so far...



Flourite will not break down but the nutrients around the pebbles will fade off quicklyif not capped. Without the nutrients, flourite won't be some front yard rocks.


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

Krispyplants said:


> One main reason for capping. Preserving your base substrate because it won't be strait up interacting with your water. This means slower nutrient release and longer lasting for the base. Flourite is a good substrate but without capping, the nutrient life span of this substrate will probably be chopped in half through water changing, water current and planting.


Flourite has no nutrients to lose ... it's an inert clay that is great at capturing nutrients and making them available to plant roots. Capping flourite could possibly limit the amount of nutrients it can capture for the roots to take up. So I would recommend the opposite and not capping it.

Thanks,
Harry


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

Harry Muscle said:


> Flourite has no nutrients to lose ... it's an inert clay that is great at capturing nutrients and making them available to plant roots. Capping flourite could possibly limit the amount of nutrients it can capture for the roots to take up. So I would recommend the opposite and not capping it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Harry


Is that so? Then why do many say to not rinse fluorite too much? Why do the Flourite providers include a certain amount of time period that the substrate will hold onto nutrients and subside? up to 9 months or something like that I believe. There is no nutrients for the substrate to capture because your tank is not a river that has mountain minerals flowing by. If you wash off all of the color on the fluorite gravel, will anyone be willing to stand by that it is still as good as new because you said that it has no nutrients to lose?


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

Personally, I don't rinse flourite because I think it's a waste of time (or, I'm lazy...)

otherwise, I think it's a misconception about how flourite works as a substrate. It's just fired clay, has a moderately better CEC then, say, sand or gravel, but nowhere near as nice as Safe-T-Sorb, Turface, Oil-Dri, kitty litter, or plain ole dirt.

The CEC is the substrates ability to sorta 'hold' cations, making them more readily available for plant roots. I've never heard the bit about flourite only being good for ~9 months, but it's been a while since I've read the packaging...


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

lochaber said:


> Personally, I don't rinse flourite because I think it's a waste of time (or, I'm lazy...)
> 
> otherwise, I think it's a misconception about how flourite works as a substrate. It's just fired clay, has a moderately better CEC then, say, sand or gravel, but nowhere near as nice as Safe-T-Sorb, Turface, Oil-Dri, kitty litter, or plain ole dirt.
> 
> The CEC is the substrates ability to sorta 'hold' cations, making them more readily available for plant roots. I've never heard the bit about flourite only being good for ~9 months, but it's been a while since I've read the packaging...


I don't know the exact time but I remember that it had a time that was meant for the minerals and nutrient coated on the substrate. Its base is rather too hard to be used as a sufficient nutrient supply and that's why its coated comprehending the time limit. This is why I said that without the coat, its no different from front yard rocks. I live in North Carolina and believe me, my dirt is as red as pottery clay. Not to mention the little rocks too. Also, people only rinse this substrate when they don't cap it because the coat is very powder based releasing a bunch into the tank.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

Any chance different products are being confused? I've never heard of some of this stuff, but I also haven't read much about Flourite since it first came out, and that was about 2 decades ago...

So I took a look at their website (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourite.html), and this is their product description:

Flourite® is a specially fracted, stable porous clay gravel for the natural planted aquarium. Its appearance is best suited to planted aquaria, but may be used in any aquarium environment. Flourite® is most effective when used alone as an integral substrate bed, but it may be mixed with other gravels. Gravel modifiers such as laterite are not necessary and unlike competing products, Flourite® never has to be replaced. It remains effective for the life of the aquarium. Flourite® is not chemically coated or treated and will not alter the pH of the water. 
Although pre-washed, it may be rinsed before use to remove residual dust. Dust can also be minimized by filling aquarium slowly and dispersing water so that the Flourite® bed is not disturbed. Slight initial cloudiness is normal and will clear rapidly (2–12 hours). To shorten the cloudiness period use Clarity™ in conjuction with mechanical filtration (such as filter floss).
​So, I'm not sure what the thing is about it being coated, or breaking down, or whatever... But like I said, I really haven't looked into it too much in recent years, so if there is some other info out there, I'm completely open to that...

I've used flourite in a couple tanks, I don't bother to cap it, and I don't rinse it, but I just don't like rinsing substrate because that takes too much effort, and I'm lazy. 

I just mist it heavily with a spray bottle while planting, and fill slowly through a filter sponge, and I've had no issue with cloudiness. My current (neglected...) tank is a 10 gallon, using Flourite black sand to cap MGOCPM. the one before that was a 20XH using Flourite black to cap MGOCPM. Next tank, I'll probably use Safe-T-Sorb for the substrate, or the cap if I go dirted... Safe-T-Sorb is supposed to have a much higher CEC then Flourite.

I'm mostly just a bit puzzled, since I don't think I've heard these things about Flourite before...


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

lochaber said:


> Any chance different products are being confused? I've never heard of some of this stuff, but I also haven't read much about Flourite since it first came out, and that was about 2 decades ago...
> 
> So I took a look at their website (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourite.html), and this is their product description:
> Flourite® is a specially fracted, stable porous clay gravel for the natural planted aquarium. Its appearance is best suited to planted aquaria, but may be used in any aquarium environment. Flourite® is most effective when used alone as an integral substrate bed, but it may be mixed with other gravels. Gravel modifiers such as laterite are not necessary and unlike competing products, Flourite® never has to be replaced. It remains effective for the life of the aquarium. Flourite® is not chemically coated or treated and will not alter the pH of the water.
> ...


 
It said not "chemically" coated. This substrate is rather weak without it's original nutrient coat. The only thing that it really supply is iron over time. 
I can't remember where I found that stated that fluorite was coated. Maybe it was by fellow aquarists? That was a while back before I even had a planted tank profile but it makes sense because that's the reason why many switches over from Flourite to ADA in the very beginning. Root tabs in ADA is a plus but root tabs in Flourite is a must. Buying fluorite is like buying a rechargeable battery. You "must" recharge it when it gets low to use it sufficiently and it comes fully charged(coated). Unlike ADA where nutrients are all there and it is even coated lol. Here is a pros and cons thread stating that fluorite itself, lacks key nutrients. I've read many fluorite users stating that you have to fertilize your tank in order to recharge up the substrate. For that, my front yard rocks can accomplish the same thing. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=153412


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

Krispyplants said:


> Is that so? Then why do many say to not rinse fluorite too much? Why do the Flourite providers include a certain amount of time period that the substrate will hold onto nutrients and subside? up to 9 months or something like that I believe. There is no nutrients for the substrate to capture because your tank is not a river that has mountain minerals flowing by. If you wash off all of the color on the fluorite gravel, will anyone be willing to stand by that it is still as good as new because you said that it has no nutrients to lose?


The reason for not rinsing it too much is because it will continue to produce fine particles as the larger particles rub against each other during rinsing. You could literally rinse everything away ... it would just take a few days of rinsing.

As for the time limit on Flourite ... I've never heard of that before ... got a source for that info?

Thanks,
Harry


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

Harry Muscle said:


> The reason for not rinsing it too much is because it will continue to produce fine particles as the larger particles rub against each other during rinsing. You could literally rinse everything away ... it would just take a few days of rinsing.
> 
> As for the time limit on Flourite ... I've never heard of that before ... got a source for that info?
> 
> ...


Its impossible to rinse off the substrate until there is none left because it's ore rock based. That doesn't make any sense since that other guy just said that it will not break down in our life time. You can rinse it for days and even throw it into a fast running river and it still won't break apart to dust grade. On the time, maybe that was found some where on a fellow aquarists blog also. I tried to find it in Seachems sites but couldn't find it. Maybe this will shed a little light. If you don't believe that there is a time limit on what was provided with fluorite gravel here is a quote. "The product is described as clay gravel and is basically inert by itself, however, when fertilizers are added, either to the water column or by way of fertilizing root tabs, the fertilizers are transferred to the Flourite. I have heard it described as charging a battery when the compounds are transferred to the Flourite. The fertilizers are then dispersed back to the aquarium over time like discharging a battery. In itself, there are no fertilizing compounds provided by Flourite except that it does provide iron." from this site... http://spec-tanks.com/seachem-flourite-aquarium-substrate-review/ still not convinced and need documents or manufacturers word? Well go buy it or keep using it to miss out on ADA.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

As to Flourite breaking down, I said it wouldn't happen under normal conditions in our lifetime, and I meant that as to it just sitting on the bottom of a tank. 

Mixing it around while rinsing it is a different situation, as the particles are banging around and actively abrading each other. This will degrade any substrate - and something like Flourite isn't as durable as silicate gravel, so it will happen noticeably quicker. Something even less durable, like Safe-T-Sorb, Oil-Dry, or kitty litter, could probably be turned into fine silt or mud with just a day's worth of mixing in this manner. It's the same principle as a rock tumbler.

I'm trying to figure out this bit about the special coating on Flourite, and it's 9 -month life, and it's just something I've never heard before, and I can't really make sense of it. I skimmed through the soil pros/cons thread, and didn't see anything in there that resembled what Krispyplants is describing. If there is a specific entry, and someone could provide the post #, I'd appreciate it.

As to the comparison of Flourite to a battery, that's referring to CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity). People sometimes talk of "charging" their substrates before use, especially with Safe-T-Sorb, which is soaking it in a higher concentration of fertilizers, hoping the clays will get saturated, and not strip the carbonates (KH) out of the water right away in a new tank. This doesn't have to be repeated, as eventually the substrate will reach an equilibrium, and it continuously binds nutrients added through dosing, fish food, fish waste, etc.
If it's something you aren't familiar with, here are a couple threads on this site that might be helpful:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=689682&highlight=cec
I think Diana's explanation on post # 9 is pretty good, and there is some interesting info on the chart Seattle_Aquarist posted on #2

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149466&highlight=cec
Especially FishFarmer at #2, DarkCobra at #8, and especially RobertH at #10

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149466&highlight=cec
It's a bit technical and dry, but Positron's posts in this thread

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1221&highlight=cec


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Krispyplants said:


> It said not "chemically" coated. This substrate is rather weak without it's original nutrient coat. The only thing that it really supply is iron over time.
> I can't remember where I found that stated that fluorite was coated. Maybe it was by fellow aquarists? That was a while back before I even had a planted tank profile but it makes sense because that's the reason why many switches over from Flourite to ADA in the very beginning. Root tabs in ADA is a plus but root tabs in Flourite is a must. Buying fluorite is like buying a rechargeable battery. You "must" recharge it when it gets low to use it sufficiently and it comes fully charged(coated). Unlike ADA where nutrients are all there and it is even coated lol. Here is a pros and cons thread stating that fluorite itself, lacks key nutrients. I've read many fluorite users stating that you have to fertilize your tank in order to recharge up the substrate. For that, my front yard rocks can accomplish the same thing. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=153412


I have never heard of most of the things your posting in reference to flourite. It lacks in minerals and yes, that is a known fact. Outside of dirt and AS, every substrate out there needs fertilizing from the start. People switch over to AS because it has a huge boost to get plants going at setup. But it will break down in 6-24 months. Startup nutrients in AS is heavily dependent on plant demand and it too will also need to be recharged or replaced. I have used Flourite for 10+ years. Sometimes I rinse, sometimes I don't. Its a cheap substrate that when dosing is involved, its has pretty decent results. You speak from a lot of reading other post but you don't have any hands on experience with the product from what I gather. Flourite having a time limit, definitely sounds like something thru the grapevine. Never heard of it and you can't find it on Seachem's website because that is a false statement. It has few minerals to it and it is understood by the hobby in what needs to be done to make it effective.

I ran my 29g setup for nearly 2 years before dry dosing. Besides the bioload, I added nothing for the flourite and the plants that were there, grew fine. Growth is slower but definitely no plant loss.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

flight50 said:


> I have never heard of most of the things your posting in reference to flourite. It lacks in minerals and yes, that is a known fact. Outside of dirt and AS, every substrate out there needs fertilizing from the start. People switch over to AS because it has a huge boost to get plants going at setup. But it will break down in 6-24 months. Startup nutrients in AS is heavily dependent on plant demand and it too will also need to be recharged or replaced. I have used Flourite for 10+ years. Sometimes I rinse, sometimes I don't. Its a cheap substrate that when dosing is involved, its has pretty decent results. You speak from a lot of reading other post but you don't have any hands on experience with the product from what I gather. Flourite having a time limit, definitely sounds like something thru the grapevine. Never heard of it and you can't find it on Seachem's website because that is a false statement. It has few minerals to it and it is understood by the hobby in what needs to be done to make it effective.
> 
> I ran my 29g setup for nearly 2 years before dry dosing. Besides the bioload, I added nothing for the flourite and the plants that were there, grew fine. Growth is slower but definitely no plant loss.


ADA does not need to be recharged because it holds way more nutrients from the beginning and even throughout its breakup state. Without fertilizing, you can keep many more varieties of plants at prime growth in ADA as oppose to fluorite. Even after it has been broken up it still has and will forever hold more nutrients than fluorite. I started out using fluorite and have 5 years of using it under my belt so there's no need for accusations of me not having any "hands" on experiences from whatever you've gathered because clearly you don't know me. The statement made by me is through information gathered, yes but its also through my own experiences. When first introduced. Plants seemed to love it and not much fertilizing is needed. After a year or so, this substrate does not have the same compounds clearly as it once did when first introduced. Fertilizing is not necessary but is known by many that with it, you can grow more varieties of plants after this substrate is introduced for an extended period of time.

Bump:


lochaber said:


> As to Flourite breaking down, I said it wouldn't happen under normal conditions in our lifetime, and I meant that as to it just sitting on the bottom of a tank.
> 
> Mixing it around while rinsing it is a different situation, as the particles are banging around and actively abrading each other. This will degrade any substrate - and something like Flourite isn't as durable as silicate gravel, so it will happen noticeably quicker. Something even less durable, like Safe-T-Sorb, Oil-Dry, or kitty litter, could probably be turned into fine silt or mud with just a day's worth of mixing in this manner. It's the same principle as a rock tumbler.
> 
> ...


Rinsing and stirring(clashing the rocks back to back) will break down the substrate but I highly doubt rinsing only would. If I can find it I'll post it up here.


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## zerodameaon (Dec 2, 2014)

Flourite can be purchased in bags specifically designed to aid in rinsing all the dust away, I am sure if this destroyed the product they would not do it. Now Eco-complete should not be rinsed, as it contains live bacteria(pretty sure no ferts) to help jump start your cycle or something. I think this may be where the confusion came about: http://www.activflora.com/, I have seen mention of activflora running out of nutrients after about a year in various places but this and Flourite are two different products.


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