# Jungle Val's and Excel do not mix



## BigJay (Jun 30, 2009)

I dose excel, just 2 capfuls every morning for a 180. My Val's are melting, and everything else seems to be growing in.

Do I stop the excel to save the Val's, or replace them with something that might do better in my tank?

What other kind of tall background plant would do better in a lower light excel tank?


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## zrb (Sep 10, 2014)

It could just be that you are over dosing. My bottle of Excel says to use once or twice a week and you are using it daily.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

BigJay:

Anacharis and Vals are commonly noted as melting in response to Excel and other forms of Glut. In general some folks have success adapting these plants to Excel by starting off at low doses and working up, although I've never tried it.

2 capfuls (10ml) is a slightly light dose, enough to treat 100 gallons, but you are still slightly over half-dose (9ml). 

Zrb:
Are you sure your bottle of Excel says once or twice a week? That makes no sense as Excel breaks down *REALLY* fast, around 24 hours.

Are you sure you aren't remembering the interval suggested for Flourish comprehensive?

Seachem's suggested dosage for Excel:
"On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L (10 gallons*). Thereafter use 1 capful for every 200 L (50 gallons*) daily or every other day. Dosing may be slowly increased in high-growth aquariums."

From:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishExcel.html

That said, most folks here seem to think the initial heavy dose is more harmful than helpful, which makes sense given that excel has a very short lifespan in the tank (ie: that dose will all be gone by the time you make your second dose, so it isn't like you can build up a "base level" of excel).


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## BigJay (Jun 30, 2009)

I started at three capfuls to start and cut back to two once the Val's started looking sick.

Sad, I really like the plants. I think pressurized co2 is the only way to save it at this point. Even my Madagascar lace is growing, after the initial meltdown after shipping cross country - it picked back up and sprouted four small leaves that get larger every day.

I have been using flourish comp, but only once a week after a water change. I haven't started NPK, because the dry Ferts haven't arrived yet.



mattinmd said:


> BigJay:
> 
> Anacharis and Vals are commonly noted as melting in response to Excel and other forms of Glut. In general some folks have success adapting these plants to Excel by starting off at low doses and working up, although I've never tried it.
> 
> ...


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## cjstl (Mar 4, 2013)

They can be acclimated. I had some in a 1G tank that I dosed 2-3 drops of Excel daily for quite a while. They did really well. They actually melted when I moved them to a tank where I'm not dosing Excel, but they're coming back now.


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## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

I've seen it said that vals melt but then grow back.


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## BigJay (Jun 30, 2009)

I'll keep an eye on them then.

Thanks!


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## keith1937 (Oct 14, 2010)

BigJay

I mentioned this to Seachem a few years back as I also melted my Vals. 
It is a situation they knew about but at the same time do not know why this is happening.

To stop the melt down stop the "Excel" or use another tall backing plant.

Keith


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## kittenfish (Feb 6, 2014)

I use 1 ml of excel daily in a 20g, which is just a little less than your dose, and my jungle vals are fine.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

You can have a healthy lush low tech with no excel or co2. Just gotta do it right. 

Mine for example. Love my Val's.


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## tricken (Jun 27, 2013)

my vals hate excel but did grow back they also hate h202


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## mattcham (Mar 7, 2014)

I've noticed that the species of plants that can get killed by glutaraldehyde (excel/metricide) are the same species that can also get killed by diluted hydrogen peroxide baths. These species include (but are not limited to) vallsineria (Val's), anacharis, mosses. Always be cautious when using chemicals with these species of plants.


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## ptr (Sep 23, 2011)

In response of your other question, which background plant can you use instead of vals - I'd recommend crypt balansae. Beautiful, tall, easy to grow plant.


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## secuono (Nov 19, 2009)

mattcham said:


> I've noticed that the species of plants that can get killed by glutaraldehyde (excel/metricide) are the same species that can also get killed by diluted hydrogen peroxide baths. These species include (but are not limited to) vallsineria (Val's), anacharis, mosses. Always be cautious when using chemicals with these species of plants.


Crypt and java fern melted when I did a hydrogen peroxide bath a couple years ago....


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

Mine never melted & I use Excel.


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## zrb (Sep 10, 2014)

mattinmd said:


> Are you sure your bottle of Excel says once or twice a week? That makes no sense as Excel breaks down *REALLY* fast, around 24 hours.
> 
> Are you sure you aren't remembering the interval suggested for Flourish comprehensive?



Opps your right it's the flourish that says that. Thanks for catching that.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

They'll come back, bigger and better than before ime


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## mattcham (Mar 7, 2014)

They won't melt if the glut dose is slowly ramped up over several weeks.

That being said, I have a clump of brown java moss that turned totally 100% brown 5 days after a 15 minute diluted hydrogen peroxide bath. Will it ever come back again or is this The End?


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## Jaxfisher (Jun 2, 2013)

*Jungle Vals & Excel do not mix*

Like Doggo, my vals seem to have no trouble when I use Excel, either!


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