# Eheim 2217 - flow or floss?



## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

So I have an Eheim 2217 running on my moderately planted 90 gallon.

When I first installed it, it had a pretty powerful flow. Now it's reduced to a gentle stream. The parts are all in good working order and the pipes are all clear (it's brand new, more or less).

I've been told (and read here somewhere) that removing some, or all, of the filter floss increases the flow a great deal. Since the tank is heavily planted, I'm more concerned with mechanical filtration than biological filtration. The water is moving very slowly, with debris having plenty of time to settle (which it does, on everything).

Should I discard some of the floss? How much? What effect will this have? The rest of the canister contains the regular proprietary Eheim media.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

I would stick with the mechanical and use a powerhead or Koralia to augment the flow. PHs or Koralias are great to have because they are often easier to position to adjust flow direction. Powerheads can be hidden easily to.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

Sounds like it's time to break down the canister and clean it. That should get your flow back up. 

I'd also add a second 2217 to your aquarium.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

justlikeapill said:


> Sounds like it's time to break down the canister and clean it. That should get your flow back up. <br />
> <br />
> I'd also add a second 2217 to your aquarium.


<br />
<br />


Unfortunately, the canister is all clean and new and in working order, but the flow is still very low. Maybe there is something wrong with the canister?

For the time being, I don't want to buy another filter (this project has cost enough for now). If I get a powerhead, what sort of flow rate should I aim for (90 gallon tank)? My options are : http://www.guppysaquariumproducts.com.au/pumps-power-heads/power-heads/cat_134.html

Are powerheads noisy?

But for the time being, what's a better option - remove most of the floss or leave it?


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

snafuspyramid said:


> So I have an Eheim 2217 running on my moderately planted 90 gallon.
> 
> When I first installed it, it had a pretty powerful flow. Now it's reduced to a gentle stream. The parts are all in good working order and the pipes are all clear (it's brand new, more or less).
> 
> ...


I also run a 2217 and had this same issue. I bought and replaced the impeller which solved the problem. Apparently, the impeller can loose it's magnetism over time. I ran it for about 2 years before running into this issue. But it hasn’t returned since and it’s been running solid for 3 years. I also pack my 2217 with floss (3-4 inches) and flow is not effected.

Also make sure you don't have a clog in the hoses somewhere, I've run into that as well. 

If that doesn't work you may need a new impeller.

Good luck,

Shawn


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## nokturnalkid (Apr 3, 2007)

Cleaning my media and the impellar worked great. I just rinsed one set of the cermaic media one week in aquarium water and the other set another week.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

"Apparently, the impeller can loose it's magnetism over time. I ran it for about 2 years before running into this issue."

But it's only been running seven months...

And it worked fine ten days ago...

Very strange. I just opened it up again and had a look, all the media is quite clean (removing the floss didn't do anything). The hoses are clear. The impeller is clean and doesn't have any sign of wear.

Compare this pic http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?p=449239

With this one:

Mine doesn't even break the water surface anymore. On the upside, it's lovely and quiet...


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## AndrewLarson (Aug 14, 2010)

You got a 2217 for less than $18? WOW you got a super good deal.

They sell the impeller at BigAl's for 17.99

http://www.bigalsonline.com/edealin...medium=Comparison+Shopping&CAWELAID=388705140


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## majstor76 (Jun 11, 2010)

snafuspyramid said:


> <br />
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


Dont buy that if you want stream. Seach for "wavemaker 1300gph" on ebay. I have it in heavily planted 110g and its working really nice. Classic powerheads are too directional and not even close in water movement. I have 2000l atman powerhead and its nothing compared to wavemakers. But, i need one more since the aquarium is heavily planted


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Based on that pic I say you've got a blockage somewhere, or are loosing pressure somewhere from an air leak.

My 2217 pressure looks like that when it's time for a cleaning, but if you just did that and are sure you don't have a hose kink or blockage anywhere then I'd start looking for an air leak. May be time to grease or replace an O-ring somewhere.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Re you sure your flow control nobs on the disconnects are not turned way down?


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

I'd run it by a sink with just intake and outake hose and see if it still does the same. Looks like a blockage somewhere.


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## jerzguy (Oct 21, 2009)

*Priming issue*

I had the same problem. It is priming issue. Try this. Stop the filter. Remove the spray bar and put in a bucket at the groud level. Turn on the filter and you will see the water flowing perfectly. Now stop the filter and fix the spray bar in the tank and turn on the filter and it should be alright.


Let us know if it solves the issue or not.


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## rcalzadilla (Sep 9, 2007)

*Eheim 2217 loss of magnetism?*

I have 2 Eheim 2217s in my 125gal tank. They are 3 yrs old.
I don't remember the force of the water coming out but, right now they are both very slow.
I just cleaned them both.

Do you have any more information about loss of magnetism in the impellers?

Would really appreciate it before I buy new impellers.

tks


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## The Plantman (May 5, 2010)

rcalzadilla said:


> I have 2 Eheim 2217s in my 125gal tank. They are 3 yrs old.
> I don't remember the force of the water coming out but, right now they are both very slow.
> I just cleaned them both.
> 
> ...


Sorry I don't, it has only happened to me once. 

I would disconnect everything and clean or even replace all the hoses. You could very well have a blockage. When I had a blockage it wasn't something that got sucked up at one time, it was a slow build up of some kind os slimy sludge in the intake hose.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

Well, it isn't a priming issue - I do exactly what you suggested with the bucket at ground level to prime the pump every time. However, I notice that the flow rate into the bucket isn't increased much at all when the motor is switched on. What does this suggest?

I'd be surprised if it's a magnetism problem, it seems odd that the flow would decrease so rapidly in a week.The impeller is clean and in good order.

I'll have to keep looking for a blockage. The only other possibility I can think of is that there's a blockage somewhere in the internals of the canister unit, where I can't see. I'll have to get some pipe cleaners and have a look. That seems a remote possibility though.

How can I determine whether there is an air leak? I would assume that it would be accompanied by water leakage? Is it only the red o-ring that I need to be concerned about? It looks quite new. On the other hand, the canister head doesn't fit extremely tightly because the steel clips have softened. Does this make a difference?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Classics have a flow control knob.

There has to be some reason why the mighty Eheim would effectively break down after only six months.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If your clips aren't tight any more you may need to get new ones. Those aren't very expensive and www.BigAlsOnline.com has them for pretty cheap.

There are lots of O-rings in Eheims- the big one that spans the whole motor mount head and maintains the seal between the canister body and the motor mount being the most important. If that connection feels loose to you, then I'd consider that the prime suspect. I have a hard time pulling mine apart even when all the valves are wide open. 

Then there are also lots of little O-rings in the quick disconnects, plus if you're using the aftermarket flow bar and intake, there are more in those as well.

If the canister is pulling in air then you may not get any water leakage for quite some time due to the way the pressure is pulling instead of pushing... but it probably will start leaking eventually.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

I'm in Australia. All eheim replacement parts - even the tiny metal clips - aren't so easy to come by, at least not without paying a truly ridiculous amount for them. My LFS charges $40 for a single O-ring, and they're not much cheaper online.

I don't have any quick disconnects - if you mean the quick release valves? - or any aftermarket spray bar parts. The setup is just the canister, two pipes and a plastic input (U-bar) and output (spray bar). All of which seem pretty firmly connected to me.

So that leaves the O-ring on the canister head. It looks like it's in good condition. Perhaps I'm not fitting it properly? Between the period in which the canister had a proper spray and didn't I removed the canister a few times to add/remove carbon. Could I be somehow failing to put it back together properly? How can I tell whether the ring has degraded?

I'll tighten the clips with pliers, but they were equally loose when the pump was working fine


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

I've played around with it a little more. There's definitely an air leak in it somewhere. It's noisier than it should be, and it's blowing fine bubbles into the aquarium even after priming.

I can only assume the leak is because the O-ring doesn't fit snugly enough. Is there any way I can test it to find out for sure?

How can I fix this? The O-ring is pretty much new, and is still supple.

I might post a new thread for this one

{EDIT} No air leak. Checked prime. No more bubbles in canister anywhere. Greased O-ring. Still no pressure.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

There's a finite # of options. It's either a leak or a mechanical problem.

If you've eliminated the air inside the canister and there's no air coming out the flow bar any more, then that leaves the motor/impeller assembly.

It may be that the air got inside the motor assembly and so is affecting it- I'd let it run for a little while now that you got all the air out and see if things get better.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Yes the flow control nobs are on the quick disconnects and it sounds like you dont have those so throw that idea out the window. 

Have you tried greasing the o rings with Vaseline or the like?


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

Someone mentioned replacing old clips that have loosened.


You can re tighten the clips by bending them with your hands or a pair of pliers. Thats how filmy they are.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

I've re-tightened the clips with pliers, and greased the O-ring with Vaseline. No better.

I got all the air bubbles out and let it run for 12 hours. No better

Either there is some very obvious problem I've missed, or I join the shabby ranks of the eheim-haters.


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

Do you have any other equipment inline on this filter? 

Is the filter located in the exact same spot now as it was when it was working properly? 
Is the bottom green lattice screen installed with the legs down and the top green lattice screen installed with the legs up?
Is the ceramic shaft in one piece and does it have both rubber bushings in place (one is in impeller cavity & one is in the pump latch)?
Does the impeller have all six vanes or blades?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Isn't it still under warranty?


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

The green lattices are fitted properly.

I can remove one rubber bushing, the other seems to be stuck in the impeller cavity (but I understand that's normal). How can I remove it?

The impeller is intact, as is the impeller shaft.

It's not under warranty because it's second-hand.

Still no good...

Oh, and it's in the same place, set up the same way, as before (it doesn't have any inline equipment, either, just pump and two hoses).


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

Mmmm.

There is one thing that changed between filter working and filter not working.

For about a week, the aquarium's powerboard was sitting directly on top of the filter.

Could this have demagnetized the impeller?

I might put up a new post on this one, I think it's an interesting possibility. Has anyone else had this happen? I don't know what else it could possibly be, I've checked EVERYTHING.

On the upside, I now know a hell of a lot more about how these pumps work...


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

It appears that all parts are in their proper place and intact. No need to remove the bushing in the impeller cavity, I just wanted verification they are not missing.

I am guessing the powerboard is a powerstrip that your electrical equipment plugs into, correct? I have never heard of an impeller magnet becoming demagnetized, except in this thread, so I can't give you a definitive answer regarding that question.

Is there any chance you could post some good pics of the parts of the filter that have been discussed next time that you have it apart? It might help to give us an idea of something we might have missed in this discussion.

Also, exactly what media are you using and how do you have it placed in the filter? Is the media loose or in media bags or some other containment (like nylon stockings)?

Do you have a sponge filter on your intake? Are you using the original green Eheim hoses?

Dee


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## stewardwildcat (Feb 24, 2010)

If you want to see if its the impeller or a blockage someplace, Take ALL of the media out of the filter and store in tank water. Then see if you can get the pump to work at the level you are expecting. You can then place each piece of filtration back in the filter system and see how it performs as you do this.

If it were me I would completely disassemble the filter, clean it all out again, and test it empty. If it works then, you can see which filtration system is clogged up or troubleshoot more easily.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

Tried all that, it runs the same without any media as with it. I also applied some plumbers tape to the joint for the bottom input pipe, no effect.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

I also removed and re-greased the tiny o-ring inside the canister head. No improvement.

I checked the magnetism as best I could by sticking it to the fridge, and it stuck pretty damn good.

Here are some photos. Hope they help.

Anyone have any other ideas?


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

snafuspyramid said:


> Tried all that, it runs the same without any media as with it. I also applied some plumbers tape to the joint for the bottom input pipe, no effect.


Is there also an o-ring on the end of this fitting?


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23723&d=1284620766

The impeller for the 2217 should have 6 vanes, not 3. Have you replaced the impeller at all or is this how you bought the filter used?

Also, look at the label on the pump head. How many VOLT and HZ does it state? I'm not sure whether your power source in Australia is 110V, 60HZ or 220V, 50HZ.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

Sorry, I should have specified, I made a mistake. The unit is a 2215 NOT a 2217. So I think the impeller has the correct number of blades.

"Tried all that, it runs the same without any media as with it. I also applied some plumbers tape to the joint for the bottom input pipe, no effect... [is there an O-ring at the end of this fitting?"]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this? There is a small curved grey hose section that extends from the bottom of the canister. At one end, it's connected to the regular green tubing. At the other end, it meets the canister body. It's there that I've added tape. I can't see an O-ring of any sort?

It says 240 volt, 50 hz, which as far as I know is fine for Australia. It has an Australian plug.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

I've been running the filter outside the cabinet for a day so I can observe it a bit more closely. I notice it's slightly louder than it should be. It's certainly not rattling, but might this provide a clue?


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

No problem. The 2215 does only have 3 blades so no issue there.

Yes, the grey fitting that threads into the bottom of the canister should have an o-ring on the shoulder where the threads are. You would only see this o-ring if you completely unscrewed the fitting from the canister. This is what seals it to the canister body to prevent water leaks or air intrusion. Though I do not think this is what is causing your filter issues since it appears it has been running this way since you got the filter.

Could you please measure the distance from the rim of your aquarium to the bottom of the filter? I'm just grabbing at straws now to try to figure what the problem could be with low flow, since we seem to have eliminated the regular issues.


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

The increase in loudness of the filter is a sign that something is wrong but the problem is pinpointing the issue.

Air being drawn into the filter through missing or damaged o-rings, slightly loose connections on the hoses, improper priming of the filter, but I think we have covered most of that. There are only 3 o-rings: the head seal, the intake fitting o-ring and the output fitting o-ring (under the pump cover) and you have two of the three needed.

The impeller, shaft or bushings could be worn and that could cause the impeller to wobble causing a similar sound.

Can you tell us exactly what media you have in the filter and the order in which it is stacked? Please start from the bottom to the top of the filter.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

The filter is quite some distance below the water line, given that this is a 2' high tank. However, I've also tried running the filter at higher levels, with no difference at all.

I'll take apart the bottom elbow and grease that o-ring. Worth a try.

The filter media doesn't seem to be the problem, as the canister runs the same with no media present at all. But it's got (from the bottom up) the green grille (legs pointing down) the Eheim ceramic mechanical filtration tube things, the course black filter pad, the Eheim sintered glass ball things, the fine 'carbon' pad, then some floss, then another grille (legs pointed up). So per instructions, basically.

I extracted both bushings today to make sure there was no wear, or grains of sand, or anything preventing proper contact. Nup. Again, the impeller and shaft appear new.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

Greased the bottom O-ring and tightened the seal. No difference.

SO:
No priming issue
No blockages
No media issue
No motor issue (an electric motor works or it doesn't)
Impeller unbroken and clean
Shaft intact and clean
Bushings intact and clean
All three O-rings clean and greased

BUT
Very slight noise in canister head, even when properly primed and all air bubbles expelled after running 24 hours.

Low flow.

I have to admit, it's now a love-hate relationship. I hate it because it doesn't ^&%%^$ work. I love it because I've had the opportunity to pull the whole thing apart and figure out how it works. I love the simplicity and solidity of the engineering. I'm probably just gonna buy another Eheim...


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

Sounds good on the media layout and the low flow issue is there regardless of whether there is media present or if the filter is closer to the water line of the tank.

Next time you have the filter apart, check to see how loosely the shaft slides into the impeller. If it is very sloppy, the impeller hole may have elongated enough to cause it to wobble and thereby reduce flow somewhat.

One other thing, you don't have a sponge filter or nylon or anything on your intake strainer, do you? That would definitely reduce the flow.

Maybe you can keep an eye out on ebay or similar sites local to you, for cheaper prices on an impeller or o-rings. Or see if you can borrow a test meter to plug the filter into and see what watts or amps it is drawing to compare to the nameplate on the filter head. That may help determine whether it is actually the pump motor that is deteriorating rather than the filter components. That would save you the cost of replacing parts if it is actually a bad pump motor.


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

I see we crossed in our posts and I'm really sorry we haven't been able to address a fix for you, yet. On the plus side, you know everything there is to know about the Eheim Classic series filter.:icon_bigg I know it has been a pain to keep taking the darn thing apart, but that is how I learned to maintain & troubleshoot my filters.

Please keep us updated on what you do to get this filter working... or not! Don't give up though, unless grossly mishandled, these filters should have a lifespan longer than most long term relationships last. And maybe someone else will see something we've missed.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

If you do decide to go with a powerhead for flow, I highly recommend the koralia wave pumps. A 750gph evolution is only $25ish and is awesome, I have koralias on all my bigger tanks. The flow is spread out and much gentler then regular powerheads that have a "jet" effect. They're also very low on power usage.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

Solved.

Deeda had it spot on.

There was a slight gap between the impeller shaft and the impeller, and therefore a slight wobble. The reason why it degraded so quickly was that I had used it to clear up a murky tank after putting down some pool filter sand too quickly. I didn't notice the problem because everything was clean and looked new, and I didn't know what I was looking for - really only a very slight wobble, but certainly detectable.

I'm about to try a new impeller. I guess I will see...

[EDIT] Well I saw. The filter DOES go better. But only a little. It's now an 'acceptable' level of flow. Not what it was a few weeks ago. The only other option is to replace the canister head, which costs almost as much as a brand new filter. I'm just going to let this one plod along at its current level and add another, stronger filter. I think after three pages it's time to call it a day


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm glad you finally figured out the problem- good work with that!

IDK what the flow rate is now versus when you first hooked it up, but it's to be expected that the flow rate on a "seasoned" filter won't nearly match a new filter, as the N-bacteria colonies themselves will block some flow as they establish in the media. Plus over time the debris buildup will block flow and be your indication each time it's time to clean the filter.


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

I'm glad you were finally able to pinpoint the issue. Sometimes it takes another set of eyes or picking someone's brain for solutions. 

Three pages isn't really that much. Sometimes we go on for weeks & months!!


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

My 2217 from west Germany flow just as much as the one I bought for my mini-m a few months ago.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

Sad to say, I've decided to come back to this.

I've just bought a 2217 (you'd think I'd learn). Happily it works exactly as it should.

But it highlights exactly how ineffectively the 2215 is pumping.

I got a new impeller at the recommendation of a store manager, but while he might have been pleased with a quick sale it only slightly increased the flow. It is still virtually useless.

I've noticed that the 2217 head fits more tightly - is much more difficult to remove - than the 2215.

So my next question is - how can you tell when the O-ring needs replacing?


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## deeda (Jun 28, 2005)

If the 2215 head is easy to insert into the canister body, I would say the old o-ring is probably worn & needs to be replaced.

Congratulations on the new 2217!! It is an awesome filter for its size. Did you get the Quick Disconnect fittings with it? If you did, just remember to open the Q.D. valves when trying to remove or replace the head. It makes it much easier to do so due to the vacuum when the valves are closed.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

Well, I replaced one of the hoses with a piece of garden hose.

The whole thing now works fine.

I checked to make sure the original hose didn't have any blockages (it didn't), and am now using it for the other Classic with no problems.

Weird.

Thanks so much for sticking with me over four pages guys


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## Kazeyama (Aug 17, 2018)

Hi there. I’m new here and i have the same problem with my Eheim 2217 (Classic 600) flow rate. The flow rate did a mess inside my 53g tank due to its powerfull flow. But after about a Week The flow slowed down to a half i guess. So i cleaned the impeller but nothing happens...no debris inside the pipes by the way...just some dirty inside the green tubes...

Best regards


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

In my experience when flow drops in an eheim classic I clean the tubes. A little bit of gunk especially on the outflow side will really slow it down


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kazeyama (Aug 17, 2018)

Got it. I'll try to clean the tubes then. Will post the results later. Thanks


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