# UPDATE: March 17 '06 re-'scape on Betowess's 90 (56K Warning)



## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

_I finally joined photobucket so its easier to post a decent journal. So I just redid this on October 17th...._ 

I just got back from a nephew's wedding in England and was fairly surprised by the growth after 9 days. I did a major water change before I left and found very little algae on the glass. Obviously, the plants are out-competing the evil green. Also here are some pics of the tank with some moon lights I put in the spill light screen. The moon lights are not as bright as the camera infers, and are the Current USA $15 first and $12 add-on variety. I really like having these moon lights, but the jury is out whether I keep the blue moon...










The screen looks like a hood. I've major pearling happening as I write and alls well for now, though I'm due for a major clipping. The pictures show an October 3 shot and you can compare to an October 12 shot to see what a week in Bath, England can do.

October3









October 12








That ambulia grows like crazy. I finally yanked 99% of the water lettuce floating on top and that is my guess why I'm now getting such growth. I really liked watching the water shimmer with moving water lettuce and the moon lights, but the water lettuce reproduces so fast and blocks too much light... 

There is also a picture of the tank and stand without the tank lights on. 










Here is a picture of the tank shortly after a re-start. The cause of the start over was a persistant red algae and some corrupted Eco complete. This is about two or three months ago. I don't remember exactly when. 










bob :wink:


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## [RK] (Aug 11, 2005)

beautiful tank!


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## robert (Sep 13, 2005)

what (on earth) is that red plant on the left??!?! It looks amazing! Caught my eye immedietly since I have never seen it before!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks guys. The big red one is a red tiger lotus of the lily family. The little one behind it is alternanthera reineckii pink. If you trim the lotus of big leaves such as on the top, I have read one can train it to stay lower and not to grow such gigantic leaves. Since this is a re-emerging one from a bulb whose first growth was rotted off by a stem fungus some months ago, I elected to let it go all out for the time being. But trimming will happen fairly soon. bob


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## Troy McClure (Feb 22, 2004)

Hey Bob, who made the stand?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Hi Troy, I made it out of 3/4 Birch/Maple. Used the birch side and beefed up the insides with double layers of donut 2x4s (one in the middle and one on each end). Way overkill as it will hold a pair of mating elephants, I am sure. Used a red oak stain... about 3 coats and then a couple of overcoats of polyurethane. It looks better in person than in these pics which were color corrected on a laptop at home. bob


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## Pseud (Oct 2, 2005)

Nice, thank you for sharing


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks, I''m really glad to share. Seems i learned almost everything on this forum and one other, and also from Rex Grigg. But I'm still growing the easy plants at this point. I had a nasty outbreak of red algae and got a batch of the corrupted Eco when I launched this tank. I had to re-start it a few months back, ugh... Now, finally its fun to have a large tank. And I love watching my Bosemani Rainbowfish. Those and clown loaches are my favs. bob roud:


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## donaldbyrd (Jun 8, 2005)

love the stand you did a great job there.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Hey, thanks Donald. Someday I'll post some pics I took while building the stand. I'm fairly confident its earthquake proof, if our house doesn't fall on top of it. But I have to admit about halfway through, when the top wasn't perfectly level thanks to a misaligned saw, I was thinking I should have bought one of the All Glass Aquarium stands. But I was able to fix it with some sanding etc. And the tank sits on some of that one inch pink construction foam to be safe. bob


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## donaldbyrd (Jun 8, 2005)

A few years back I built a new stand for my 55 I really think it could support an elepant, when I bought my 125 earlier this year I was shocked at how light weight it is, nowing how my stand was built and know what is holding up the 125 I keep expecting to hear a crash as it comes down. DIY is so much better.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

I would agree here, very nice piece of work. My main aquascaping dilemna at the moment concerns my java fern. I see you have what appears to be a lot more depth (back to front) than I do. Because of this I find it hard to keep the fern in check as right now it extends from the front to the back. I like the look of your fern. When you have time I would appreciate you listing your flora.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

> But I'm still growing the easy plants at this point.


There are no hard plants and easy plants... there are more "common" plants and "rarer" plants. :wink: Light is usually the biggest drawback on the rarer plants, we dont all spend the $$$ it takes for the proper lighting... LOL

Anyways... I would rather see a lush ,healthy tank full of "easy" plants grown to their potential then a tank full of moderately grown "hard" plants as you call them.

Great job, nice tank ! roud:


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Buck said:


> There are no hard plants and easy plants... there are more "common" plants and "rarer" plants.


Me and my L. glandulosa might tend to disagree with the Buckman on this point... :icon_roll :hihi:


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks so much Jart and Buck. You guys just made my day. roud: Lets see... I have asian ambulia (Limnophila aquatica) in the back right, and it has just about smothered two starts of wisteria (hygrophila difformis) which are still down there hanging on. That surprised me, but ambulia seems really invasive. 

I bought some egeria, sunset hygro, and wisteria to control algae when I re-launched. A month later I yanked out the egeria, but still find some every once in awhile.

Infront of the ambulia is Rotalla indica on the right and then Sunset hygro which is also on the far left. Center-ish is the Java which is constrained a bit by a large piece of bogwood. The bog wood may be hard to see in the pictulated image. There is also some non-visible Anubias var. 'nana' left of the Java. Behind the Red tiger lotus (Nymphaea lotus var. rubra) is some Alternanthera reineckii and some (non visible) struggling red ludwegia. I can't seem to grow ludwegia in my water yet. I may be PO4 deficient?? Infront of the java is a little bit of Pearlgrass (hemianthus micranthemoides...aka Baby tears). 

I also keep a little water lettuce (Pistia stratiotes). But I have to yank it out often. I give it and cuttings to the owner of a LCFS (C stands for Cichlid) who sold me six Rainbowfish for $25 and gave me a great deal on the 90 gallon. For Washington state guys its Conway Tropical Fish. He keeps healthy fish. I think he feeds his Cichlids with my cuttings. :icon_roll Thanks again. bob


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Here is a picture of the screen before I stained it. Actually we were testing to figure out how to add an image without an icon, before I gave up and joined photobucket. I'll post a picture later showing the moon lights inside the screen and a better copy of this image not so large too. PS I like photobucket. Its quite easy to use. roud: bob http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1877&stc=1


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## D.gilly (Sep 25, 2005)

keep up the good work love the moon lights lookin to buy some for my aquarium your java fern looks great really lush roud:


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## Fosty (Oct 17, 2003)

Your tank looks great! Any reason you don't add a background? 

BTW, It really looks awsome with the moonlights, I'm probably going to get some now :wink: .


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks D.gilley and Fosty. Yeah, this tank is finally alot of fun. I really like the Current Moon lights. They are quite cheap and work fine. Some dealers say one per foot of tank and another says two for four feet of tank length. I think three or two for a four foot tank is about perfect. Its good to let the fish have some dark spots, although the plants or wood could provide dark places as well.

My Rasboras seem to like the light and the Rainbowfish don't shy away too much either. Re: backgrounds, I have a blue one on my 26 gallon and I'm not too crazy about black ones as it makes a tank look too dramatic. When I 'scape this with some new plants, I plan to hide one spraybar and remove one or go with lily pipes and let the plants cover the background. Thanks again roud:


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Betowess- can you give me the specs on the tek lighting? From your signature it looks like you have about 2.4 WPG over 90gals? if that's true you are getting some good growth.

Are you still having problems with algae?


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## bavarian3 (Feb 22, 2005)

Tank turned out very beautiful.

How do you like the Tek fixture? I am going to be purchasing one from innovativelights soon. What bulbs do you use? If you have more pics of it please post! 

-Charles


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Hey Marc, Hi Charles,
Yeah its the 4x54 watt with the $11.95 GE lamps (6500k starcoats?). The TEK's individual parabolics on each lamp really puts the light down there, so I guess it is a little more than 2.4 watts/gal. Who knows? Its maybe six inches above the water.

Not much algae, at this point except a tiny bit here and there. Some of that same red algae is still barely lingering, but nothing at all like before. It shows up on the spraybar and pearlgrass and sometimes on the Ambulia that's in the strong current).But the pearl weed still had it before I put it back in. I am trying to revive it but I ought to yank it and start with a healthy plant. The CO2 is around 35ppm. Lots of pearling, but I'm pretty sloppy on ferts...mostly just micros and iron, occasional PO4 and Pot. Sulphate & Epsom salts at water change. I'm thinking of trying a more consistent regimen. Just not sure with a heavy moderate fishload.

Honestly, after looking at PJAN's tank, I wish I had spent the extra money on a 6x54 Tek. But the Alternanthera reineckii is starting to really take off again. 

PS those Amano pictures were fantastic, even at my home's 56K roud:


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

PS, Charles, the best thing IMO on the Tek is the optional griplock cable hangers. Man, they are a breeze to raise and lower the light. It is a very well made in the US fixture. Made just north of Portland Or. in Vancouver WA. The only thing I don't like is there is no easy way to put moon lights on this fixture. At least I couldn't figure out one.


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## bavarian3 (Feb 22, 2005)

Betowess said:


> PS, Charles, the best thing IMO on the Tek is the optional griplock cable hangers. Man, they are a breeze to raise and lower the light. It is a very well made in the US fixture. Made just north of Portland Or. in Vancouver WA. The only thing I don't like is there is no easy way to put moon lights on this fixture. At least I couldn't figure out one.


Thanks for the info. Good to see there are cheap bulbs at well. 

Im gona grab one up in silver finish, nice that they are local for pickup as well


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Charles, you can search and find a great post on the Tek somewhere in this forum. Iunknowns or Ibns? The starcoats are 6500k or 6000k. Can't remember. And you can save some money by having a glass store cut a plexiglass cover. You have to remove one end of the fixture with allen keys and it will slide right in. But careful on the measurements. I wish mine was about a 1/16 inch wider as it bows a little in the middle (re: the ~ 8" wide, not the length). definately recommend a plexiglass cover to keep water from splashing on the tubes and reflectors. Cut it plenty wide. Can always sand it down easy... hth, bob


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## bavarian3 (Feb 22, 2005)

Betowess said:


> Charles, you can search and find a great post on the Tek somewhere in this forum. Iunknowns? The starcoats are 6500k or 6000k. Can't remember. And you can save some money by having a glass store cut a plexiglass cover. You have to remove one end of the fixture with allen keys and it will slide right in. But careful on the measurements. I wish mine was about a 1/16 inch wider as it bows a little in the middle (re: the ~ 8" wide, not the length). definately recommend a plexiglass cover to keep water from splashing on the tubes and reflectors. Cut it plenty wide. Can always sand it down easy... hth, bob


Hahah thats actually whos tank made me want this fixture. Ive been to his house a few times and it looked goooood. Thanks for the tip on the plexi cover. Cant wait to get mine!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey Bob - Tank looks great! roud: And _love_ those rainbows! Got some questions though...

Did you attach the moon lights to the DIY light screen? If so, how and where?(Which is cool BTW)

And I'm confused about the moon light colors? Is there a blue one and a white one? I vote white FWIW.

And as a word of warning to anyone reading this considering a Tek Plexiglas screen... I bought one from ReefGeeek with my Tek, and it got so hot it sagged _big time_. I turned it over and within a few weeks it was sagging again. Thin Plexiglas will clearly soften under a Tek's heat.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Hi Steve, 

Yeah the blue looks kind of weird, but it is not as bright as the camera infers. But one can't see the fish very well with it. Together they are kind of interesting. 

If you look at the bad screen picture, I cut two chunks of wood from a little bigger than 2x2 stock about 4 inches long and put a slight angle to it where the moonlights mount. Then screwed them perpendicular to the screen's four foot long 2x2 (on the top of it) so they hang about 2.5-3 inches over the tank pointing down to the front/middle. It took two trys to get the angle right. A picture will save a thousand words so I'll try to post one soon. 

Thanks Steve. bob 
ps. my plexi bowed a bit too, but no problem. Maybe mines thicker as I got it at a local glass shop.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Betowess said:


> PS those Amano pictures were fantastic, even at my home's 56K roud:


Glad you were able to check them out! :icon_bigg


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

scolley said:


> Did you attach the moon lights to the DIY light screen? If so, how and where?(Which is cool BTW)
> 
> And I'm confused about the moon light colors? Is there a blue one and a white one? I vote white FWIW


OK Steve, Here's a couple of pics of the moonlight attachment to the screen. You can see the piece of wood I cut out of stock a little bigger than 2x2 material with an angle on one side where the LED moon light is screwed in. The wood is screwed into the 2x2 four foot long piece resting on the tank's lid. Not sure how it would work with a 6x54 watt Tek. Probably have to have the light above it a couple of inches.



















HTH bob


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## PJAN (Feb 18, 2005)

Bob, the tank is looking very nice. Good growth too !
I think you will do fine with 4 T5's in stead of 6 T5's. 
I tried for a while 4 T5's to run my tank and the plants did ok.

Always remember that good growth ( nice and healthy) is far more important than acheive the fastest growth possible. 
If I use my 6 T5's for 10h at 100%, one little mistake ( NO3, PO4..) will get me in the section "King of the Algea".

One question though : did you cover the T5 with plexiglass? I removed the protection ( better : less heat for the lamps ) because I didn't saw any splashing etc.

Gr.PJAN


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Bob - those are the pics that tell the story. That's cool!

So it really is a "light spill guard" and not an open top hood with the Tec hanging into it. Cool. Does it go all the way around, to protect against back spill? An issue for tanks with no background like yours.

I purchased some small 20w dimmable halogen spots that I would like to get shining into the tank at night for "low light" viewing (some pics from PJAN were the inspiration). Been wondering how to accomplish this. Hmmmm....

Your design here is a definite possibility. Thanks for posting the pics!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Hey Steve. Thanks! 
Its suppose to be a three sided "light screen" for lack of a better word. I screwed up my bevel cut on the third side and I never approach or can see the tank much from that side (the side I took the picture from). So for now its a two sided screen like the letter L. Its soley for the light spill and a place to mount the moonies. Also, I can remove it in a heartbeat, so easy for maintenance. 

I've never had a hood, but they look cumbersome to me. The plants essentially block the back light spill and the main issue that prompted even making it was this: 

With a 24" tall 90 gallon on a near 30" base (with the pink foam), if I sat in my desk chair with all four lamps on, it really bothered my eyes. The screen takes care of that and provides a handy mounting place for the moon lights. PS, the blue moon is about 1/4 as bright as the picture infers. Its kind of eerie and weird looking and hard to see the fish, but I do like it. But I agree, the white moons are the best way to go... Cheers, bob


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

PJAN said:


> I think you will do fine with 4 T5's in stead of 6 T5's.
> I tried for a while 4 T5's to run my tank and the plants did ok.
> 
> One question though : did you cover the T5 with plexiglass? I removed the protection ( better : less heat for the lamps ) because I didn't saw any splashing etc.
> ...


Thats good to hear re: the 4 versus 6. Now I'm on the hunt for some Limnophila aromatica after seeing yours! 

Re: the plexiglass: Yeah, I covered my Tek. Those rainbows and SAEs do splash a bit and the lamps are pretty cheap, so for now I'm going to keep the cover on. At least I don't have to clean the reflectors and I get nervous putting in those skinny T5s. 

Again, your tank absolutely rocks. I hope you take 1st place in competition! roud: bob


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

*Update: New plants and plan on Betowess' 90 Gallon (56K beware)*

Ok. Here is what things looked like about a month ago:










I finally yanked out the Ambulia, Sunset Hygro, and Rotalla indica... after some Ludwigia, Stargrass, Rotalla wallichii, and some Crypt wendtii arrived. Then, after seeing Scolley's beautiful Ludwigia and Pjan's amazing Limnophila I decided I couldn't live without those. So I also ordered those two along with a C. wendtii green X tall.

So now I have something like 15 varieties of plants going :icon_redf . What will I do with them all? 

Here is a picture of the tank after I yanked the Ambulia, Sunset Hygro and R. indica and trimmed the heck out of the poor lotus. You also can see the purple floating E. stellata narrow leaf in the top right. And the new starts of L. aromatica floating just above the substrate near the middle. If you look closely, you can make out a start of C. wendtii green laying against the right side of the Ludwigia repens on the center left. Its kind of blurry this far away at low res... 










Then I got radical and yanked out the Java fern. Had to make room for the Limnophila aromatica. Also I ripped out the last of the Rotalla indica (far right leggy plant) that I had just replanted (in a panic) to help with algae control. 

Below is a picture of the new immature set up. The Pearlweed is really taking off as is the Ludwigia repens. You can see quite a change in a couple of weeks between the picure above and below. Also the L. aromatica is behind the wood and the E. stellata is in front right for now where it gets enough light. Later I'll move it to the back right where the Ludwigia brevipes is now, and probably put the L. brevipes across the far right side. And I'm not sure what to do with the Lotus. Its too big and has to go. I keep cutting it down and it may finally be ready to settle down. 










The fish really like the open areas. I plan on trying to keep the jungle maintained better this time!

The left side:










My old trustworthy A. reineckii is starting to grow out too. 



The right side:










The Star grass is really taking off as is the Ludwigia brevipes.



I'm having fun now watching these new varieties grow in. roud: And praying all this upheaval doesn't explode any algae. :icon_roll So far, so good, knocking on wood. Lets see. Here is a basic listing...

Alternanthera reineckii
Hydrocoytle leucocephala
Nymphaea lotus... its going to go... too big!
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Ludwigia repens
Hemianthus macranthemoides
Crypt wendtii green X tall, C. wendtii bronze & C. wendtii brown and c. balansae
L. aromatica
E.s tellata narrow leaf
rotalla wallichii
Ludwigia brevipes 
Anubias barteri var. nana


Closeup of Ludwigia repens a couple weeks ago:









I should do more closeups as these are more interesting to look at. Now its time for some


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Bob - it can't be said you don't have courage! I could have never done such a radical change after I had a tank looking so nice. Now I've got to wait for the grow-in to compare, though I'm sure others with more vision will be able to visualize it now. But if what you had before is a measure, I'm sure it will look great!

About that L. palustris, is ID's correctly? Looks more like L. Repens than I thought. Or maybe I'm just losing the ability to ID a plant that doesn't have algae growing on it. :hihi:


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

What a great change! The transition should work out nicely...might want to space out that stargrass just a tad to let the lower side shoots fill in and get that "hedge" look. Can't wait to see what it looks like in a month or so!! roud:


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

Man - what *scolley* said!
I popped onto the last page, saw the first shot and said, "Wow, what a nice looking tank."
Then I realized that was the _BEFORE_ shot!

Do you have 2 filters on this tank? In the before pic I think I see one outlet across the left side wall, and one horizontal on the rear wall. In the after, I only see the one on the rear wall (tho I see an intake on either end).

I agree, the lotus may just not fit in this scape.
That's one heck of a stand of java fern you pulled. You must have made someone very happy!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, thanks Steve... Maybe it is repens. I know nothing about Ludwigia. Well, come to think about it, I really don't know too much about any one species. :redface: 

I just thought it was palustris because it was so warm yellow and I thought it looked like the palustris in your tank. What makes you think its repens? Leaf shape and form or what? Do you know the scientific name of the narrow leaf ludwigia on the right? These are the first Ludwigias I have ever successfully grown. 

Right Eds, that red tiger has gotta go. I was thinking of trying to keep it in my 26 bow to save for another, bigger tank someday. Probably should give it away to someone in Swap n Shop. Still thinking about which to do. 

I did pull the left spray bar out and put in a PVC outflow down low (spray painted green) per one of Wasserpest's recommendations/design. But I'm going to camo it more with some brown spray paint when I put in a couple of 300 watt Hydors that are on their way from Big Als. It was pretty amusing when I had the 3 SAEs in there. One would always just angle its head straight into the current of that PVC outflow...swimming for hours on end. Kind of miss that. I might bring them back, after the L. aromatica is established. My only problem with them is that they are such PIGS!

And yes, Two XP3s. Later the second spraybar will go too. I'll probably just let it flow straight out neat the top, or if I feel like spending some money, get Lily pipes. 

And Thanks Dawg! I do have high hopes for this layout. The last setup on this tank was really just trying to get things balanced and to get some mulm happening after my fiasco with corrupted Ecocomplete and red algae. Now I'm on guard for an algae attack after all this upheaval. Some thread algae was starting on the Rotalla wallichii, but I cut them short and did a major over-due clean on both can filters. Now I'm hopeful everything's OK, as long as I don't over or under fertilize. 

Lastly, I'm a bit tired of that big chunk of bogwood. The fish and shrimp really like it, but I'm going to start hunting for a decent and elegant piece of grapevine. We'll see how things evolve. The current hulking piece of bogwood might not look too bad once the C. wendtii green Xtall begins creeping up the wood's front right. The L. aromatica being behind the bogwood. Any suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks again guys.  bob


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

OK, after looking at Lisette's tank, and knowing that I ordered Ludwigia palustris on my next to last plant order, I'm going to correct my last post with pictures) so that I won't be adding to the problem of incorrectly IDing plant. The repens which I labeled as palustris is now going to be L. repens. and the unidentified Ludwigia is now going to be L. palustris. Sorry for any confusion and thanks again Scolley. I hope I have it right this time! And at least this mystery is solved. :icon_redf bob


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## krazykidd86 (Jul 27, 2005)

Bob, 

Your tank looks great! ; even with the redesign. I was having a hard time deciding which I like better, the old one vs the new one. And I came to the conclusion that they're incomparable! This new tank does wonders with the open spaces, and actually allows me to enjoy each plant, as well as notice the fishies. I actually like the bare wood. I think it is a defining characteristic of the tank. 

I wonder what the tank would look like with a solid background. Yup, L.repens is the correct ID. And yes, that moonlight is AWESOME! roud: 

I look forward to your updated pictures, and tank progression. 

Absolutely stunning! roud: 

the KIDD


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks KIDD! 
I think it will fill in so I won't absolutely need a background. When, or if I do a background, I'm leaning towards doing something different than black. This tank will have so many warm tans and reds when grown in. I've always loved the Amano background on one of his tanks which had an deep orange with some kind of backlight. It was stunning to see. 










Now I'm thinking of moving the L. brevipes over to the left side in front of the A. reineckii. Then I'll move the E. stellata more to the back right where the Ludwigia brevipes is now. But before I can do that I'll need to remove/trade my red tiger lotus. Last, I'll spread the stargrass out in front of the stellata on the right and let the brown/bronze crypt wendtii take the front right of the tank. At least thats the plan for now. But first things have to grow in. 

Also, there is some Crypt balansae that should be a break between the L. aromatica and the stellata in the back. My only concern there is I don't want the back to look too much like a row of various plants. So I'll have to wait and see how things develop. Thanks again. Bob

BTW, There are four moonlights now in the screen. Three whites and the blue on the left now. Its almost too bright, and nightime is a great time to observe the fish.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey Bob, tank looks good! Now just to get the Ludwigias straightened out...

First there are a LOT of Ludwidia's out there, and a large number of them are hybrids too. So certainty at a distance is challenging. But from the look of the plant of the left (leaf size, shape, color, and leaf pattern) is looks like a classic L. repens. But time will tell and expression of different colors will be the final determination of that IMO.

As for the narrow leaf variety on the right, there are a number of options: arcuata (doubtful), brevipes (probably), or (maybe) inclinata. But neither that leaf shape or color would indicate a palustris. A closer pic would help.

You know anyone with a decent camera? :wink: 

Tank looks good though! Looking forward to progress. :icon_bigg


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

*Beware of Betowess Plant IDs*

OK. Sorry and beware of my bad plant IDs to anyone reading. :icon_redf I've corrected the ID errors on my previous posts, so some of the followup replies may not make sense...

I'll try to get a closeup, but probably not tonight. I looked through Kasselman and read a description in Peter Hiscock's Encyclopedia... and I think you are definately right about it being L. brevipes, Steve.

The funny thing is the place I bought it from, Aquarium Plants.com doesn't list it as one of their plants. But mis-identification is very common in the horticulture trade. Also, I had Brevipes once before and it looked a bit different than this one. That one practically croaked after hanging on and on, where as this one grows like a weed. But a different tank and different water. Thanks alot for clearing this up, Steve!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Well, I moved the Red tiger lotus to my 26 gallon for now. 










And here is a "semi" closeup of the Ludwigia "brevipes"? What do you think? Is it L. brevipes or what? 










The "Pearlweed" is definately becoming a weed. I might be on the hunt for some HC! Anyone need some prolific pearlweed ?











At least the L. aromatica and E. stellata narrow leaf are starting to kick into gear. Now its about time to start pruning the Ludwegia repens and stargrass too. I put one of two Hydor in-line 300 watt heaters in and will put in the other this weekend. The Hydor inline heaters have to be the easiest plumbing I have ever done on any aquarium fixture. I love their pressure fittings! No stainless steel hose clamps! At least I hope I don't need any hose clamps. 

I also moved the remaining spraybar to the right side for now. Someday maybe some Lily pipes! I probably have too many plants for this tank. Time to buy the additional 120 gallon...LOL:icon_roll . I also brought in a couple of juvenile Angel fish which seem pretty cool. There is a little bit of algae, but nothing too scary yet, knocking on wood. bob


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

OK. Here is an updated picture of the tank. I'm shooting with a Canon D5 DSLR which I really like. I'm in the process of switching from Nikon DSLRs.But thats a whole other story...

Quite a few changes. And more to come. The E. stellata narrowleaf is starting to really grow. I can now see a little color and the L. aromatica is also doing well with alot of new growth - at the substrate. I have removed the pearlweed and put in some new HC from "Pipefish" which you can barely see. The Amanos are attacking it for some reason.They love something growing on it.

I am probably going to move the Stargrass over to somewhere on the left side to open up some room on the right side. I might move it where the Ludwegia brevipes is now growing. I have not decided on that yet .Any ideas?? On the left front is some C. balansae which is just now kicking in. Originally it was going to be between the E. stellata and the L. aromatica, but it was taking a long time to get going. So now some new B. aubertii I have ordered is going to go there. I also moved one C. wendtii brown over to the far left front.

I will move some C.wendtii green xtra tall to where the Stargrass is now and put the new B. aubertii I have coming in its place... the gap between the E. stellata and the L aromatica. I look forward to having a new lawn in the middle area. I also have moved alot of the Crypts around and moved the L. aromatica behind the prolific Stargrass. Also, the plant on the far left is some Brazilian pennywort. I love this graceful plant and its an algae destoyer to boot! Oh yeah, I yanked my trusty A. reineckii too. And any suggestions or comments (both good or critical) welcome!


And the latest:










I also bought a pair of Apisto cacatoides (Triple Reds). Here are a couple pics. The guy. 
The green blur behind him is the new HC from Pipefish... not algae, at least not yet.











And the couple together... Also some pearling bubbles you can see.










And the lonely Angel...










My faithful Bosemaniis









And my 26 bow, the tank where the left overs go, including the Pearlweed, Stargrass and L. repens. 
Soon to be home of a trio of Apisto Viejtas, maybe!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey Bob, the new more open look of the fore-ground and middle of the tank is an good improvement IMO. You've got some serious dark red going on, and you might consider keeping it very close to, or even on, the sides. At least that's an Amano design recommendation, light in the middle, dark on the edges. It's a composition thing...

I really wanted to comment on the Apisto cacatoides. Looks like you have a nice pair! I've had several and none, males or females, represented their respective sexes as well as yours. Good find! :thumbsup:


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## Sudi (Jun 28, 2005)

Apisto cacatoides (Triple Reds) are just beautiful :!: , now when I saw them in your tank, I'm thinking of getting them for my tank 
Great tank and photos too !

matt


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## matthewburk (Sep 22, 2005)

I love the triple reds, beautiful!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

scolley said:


> Hey Bob, the new more open look of the fore-ground and middle of the tank is an good improvement IMO. You've got some serious dark red going on, and you might consider keeping it very close to, or even on, the sides. At least that's an Amano design recommendation, light in the middle, dark on the edges. It's a composition thing...
> 
> I really wanted to comment on the Apisto cacatoides. Looks like you have a nice pair! I've had several and none, males or females, represented their respective sexes as well as yours. Good find! :thumbsup:


Hey Steve, Thanks for the feedback. Went skiing yesterday. The area closest to me (Mt. Baker) which has the lower 48's record for yearly snowfall broke their own short-term record. Mt. Baker recieved 116 inches of snow in a little over two days. Absolutely incredible!! They had to close it down for four days due to avalanche and buried lifts. Go figure. We went to another area which was better for my beginer nine year old...

So I came back from skiing and see that some folks have finally noticed my new Apistos. Thanks Guys - Hooray! I love these little fish. They are starting a really interesting courtship drama. I'll keep you updated. Re: this tank. It is definately a challenge to get things right. The Amanos are hacking up my new HC and now my pH probe goes on the blink. And a little bit of BBA is creeping back too??

I'm planning on keeping the L. aromatica on the rightside and I'm pretty sure I'll have a hard time getting a super orange out of the stellata with my bioload's capacity for NO3. So no bright reds like my A reineckii in this tank. I've made some more changes and told myself I *really* just need to let things grow for a while, then fix it. I'll post a picture when I find time. Thanks again. bob


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Looks nice! Say, what is the pH of the water in that tank? You mentioned your apistos courting and so I figure your pH has got to be 7.0 or lower, right? If so how do you get it that way?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

banderbe said:


> Looks nice! Say, what is the pH of the water in that tank? You mentioned your apistos courting and so I figure your pH has got to be 7.0 or lower, right? If so how do you get it that way?


Thanks banderbe. The pH is usually around 6.6 or 6.7. I keep it there with a pH monitor coupled with pressurized CO2 in a rex type reactor. But my water is naturally acidic. I have to add crushed coral or sea shells to bump up my KH/GH so that requires some CO2 to bring the pH back down.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Here is another picture with four moonlights. It really looks alot different, less bright, than a camera captures. There are three white and one blue LEDs, which appear much brighter in this picture than in real time.Especially the blue light. It is quite subdued in reality. The gravel probably looks 60% darker in real time. I do like the white lights better because its easier to see the fish and shrimp. 

There is a lot of courting behavior one can witness at night time. Its my favorite fish watching time (with a highball in hand) before I crash for the evening. Also, I moved the stargrass and C. wendtii around for the bazillionth time.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Looks good Bob! And I'm with you on that highball assisted nighttime fish watching... one of my favorite hobbies. :wink: 

But you've admitted yourself you like the white light better. What don't you replace that funky blue one with a white? It would be more consistent anyway.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

scolley said:


> I'm with you on that highball assisted nighttime fish watching... one of my favorite hobbies. :wink:
> 
> But you've admitted yourself you like the white light better. What don't you replace that funky blue one with a white? It would be more consistent anyway.


Yeah, I just haven't gotten around to it as its another $12.00 and shipping and it doesn't look at all as pictured. Its really dark in the blue area, almost like its not there; especially if you are looking at it with a double single malt. Two of those and its totally gone, er... you get the picture...:icon_redf


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

OK, took a few pics tonight. Here is the latest from the side, my new favorite viewing angle! The L. aromatica is pretty cool. It has some fuzz algae which comes and goes but mostly hangs around. Working on that. I'm not sure about this plant.











And from a 45 degree. This is my view from my desk in our fishroom/computer crib. There is a little Java "Windelov" that the LFS gave me. I promised him many more from the baby. Its on the driftwood.












Here is a look from the front...
Notice I added some B. aubertii which I think is starting to grow. Its in the far front right. The E.stellata is really zooming lately. I moved the Stargrass to the far left to make room for the B. aubertii. I also put a couple sprigs of Ludwegia repens back in and a small clump of Pearlweed in the far front left. The C. balansae is finally starting to grow. Some is still growing sideways with the current, but I like that. If you see a small speck of green between the C.balansae on the left and those two Neons, thats all thats left of my three sq. inches of HC thanks to my Amanos munching on it and my Corys bulldozing through it. But it is growing and being bulldozed at an even pace...:icon_roll 











Below is the C. balansae which use to lay flat. It is now kind of pointing up here and there. I moved the spraybar to the opposite side so that might have been what caused it to lay down - strong current? Those lovely blue green tufts on the bog wood is my decorative BBA. Hopefully my upped CO2 will deliver the knock out!











And some Marselia that Bill shared with me. Thanks Bill!:thumbsup: 











And the little girl cockatoo is coloring up nicely: (correction, I've been sold a male, so I'm told.)


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Betowess said:


> And the little girl cockatoo is coloring up nicely:


Hi Betowess, I keep a pair of wild-caught cacatuoides and I am pretty positive that's a boy cacatuoides you've got there.. It's hard to tell how big the fish is from the lack of context in the photo but the body shape, dorsal fin and fleshy lips are without a doubt male.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks, I had no idea. He/she is a bit smaller than the other. Maybe a younger male. They get along just OK. This one was really aggressive when I tried to introduce the A. viejita pair a few days back. I took the viejitas out after an hour or so of a running battle.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Betowess said:


> Thanks, I had no idea. He/she is a bit smaller than the other. Maybe a younger male. They get along just OK. This one was really aggressive when I tried to introduce the A. viejita pair a few days back. I took the viejitas out after an hour or so of a running battle.


The A. viejita should in theory be okay with A. cacatuoides since they are part of different apisto complexes, but I have never tried it.

My cacatuoides are kept with a pair of bolivian rams and I have not seem much if any aggression.

I was thinking of getting a pair of wild-caught A. macmasteri to put in with the pair of cacatuoides.. hope I don't have the same problem!

Btw, I will try to get a photo of my female cacatuoides and post it.. you will see what a drastic difference there is..


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

banderbe said:


> \
> 
> I was thinking of getting a pair of wild-caught A. macmasteri to put in with the pair of cacatuoides.. hope I don't have the same problem!
> 
> Btw, I will try to get a photo of my female cacatuoides and post it.. you will see what a drastic difference there is..



That would be great. I would be curious to see a closeup of the difference. I looked at the LFS, but the "females" were all pretty young. I will take a better look once I head up that way. I am fairly sure my A. viejito has a female. Also, I saw some macmasteri last week. Probably tank bred. I just as soon leave the wild stock wild. Just my take. Thanks again. Like your avatar, che.


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

Very nice plants man . . . very nice . . . 

I think the next thing you should do is get sucked into the epiphyte craze (see that windelov fern starting it . . .) especially moss . . . There's a whole hobby in just moss collecting, and I think you need to join it 

jk, but seriously, some moss would be a nice addition to the midground-- especially on the poor naked piece of wood. :wink: 

Once you go moss though, you'll never go back . . . literally, cause even if you try to get rid of moss it grows back. :hihi:


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Betowess said:


> I just as soon leave the wild stock wild.


I probably would too except I know a guy who has a large hatchery in Georgia and he takes a trip to Peru almost every year to catch cichlids, so if I don't buy them someone else will or they will sit in his tank. Since he's not really a for-profit kind of guy it's not as though not buying from him would stop him, you know what I mean? Besides, apistogrammas are plentiful down there.

Truth be told, if breeders would stop trying to make the triple reds, orange flash, etc., and just keep them the way they look in the wild I would buy bred fish but once you see a wild cichlid you will know what I mean, they are beautiful just the way God made them.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> I think the next thing you should do is get sucked into the epiphyte craze (see that windelov fern starting it . . .) especially moss . . . There's a whole hobby in just moss collecting, and I think you need to join it
> 
> jk, but seriously, some moss would be a nice addition to the midground-- especially on the poor naked piece of wood. :wink:
> 
> Once you go moss though, you'll never go back . . . literally, cause even if you try to get rid of moss it grows back. :hihi:



Thanks gmf. I'm having fun learning the fundamentals.So far, I've shied away from mosses for the very reason of "it grows back"... But its interesting you mentioned the epiphyte craze. I love looking at Gomers' , Knott's, and Amano's tanks with the moss growing on the long slender grapevine type woods. I'm kind of interested in erect or Taiwan moss. That might be my next phase, once I get my HC started, (maybe:icon_roll ). The HC is suppose to fill in the midground. If it doesn't take, pehaps the slow but steady Marselia will. Also, just wondering, where are you going to find room in the cube for the stargrass? bob


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

banderbe said:


> Besides, apistogrammas are plentiful down there.
> 
> Truth be told, if breeders would stop trying to make the triple reds, orange flash, etc., and just keep them the way they look in the wild I would buy bred fish but once you see a wild cichlid you will know what I mean, they are beautiful just the way God made them.


Good point. Hey, is my mis IDed an orange flash? Its getting brighter orange and bigger every day? Thanks, bob


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Betowess said:


> Good point. Hey, is my mis IDed an orange flash? Its getting brighter orange and bigger every day? Thanks, bob


I'm no good at identifying these breeder strains, sorry  I bet it is though because the triple reds I've seen are *red* in their fins.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Sure looks like a nice colored male orange flash coloring up from here.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Ibn said:


> Sure looks like a nice colored male orange flash coloring up from here.


Well, That confirms it for me, Ibn. I was suspecting the same about the time Banderbe pointed it out. There is definitely some competition between him and my Triple red, but no real battles as the O flash grew up with the triple red. Yes, that orange is pretty "rich and deep" if you could see it in person. I guess I need to find some ladies for my two bachelors. I'll try to post a shot of my A. viejitas fairly soon. Thanks. bob


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Tank's looking good Bob. You can skip the nightlight shots IMO. It looks good with the lights on IMO! Great progress.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Here is an updated picture I took tonight. I've made a few changes. 

I moved the E. stellata to the back left corner and temporarily placed the Hydrocotyle in the stellata's old place behind the bogwood. I added some Christmas moss to the large bogwood and a second small piece of driftwood has some of Fisa's weeping moss on it. Also, I bought a Crinum calemestratum (front left). A couple of nights ago I yanked some C. wendtii brown and bronze that I really didn't like due to occasional melting and it got so big. That process tore up a bunch of the Marselia... oh well, it will re-establish. The new little bogwood is in the C wendtii's place. 

The Marselia is marching along and would be in the center except I cut it back to protect some lagging HC which is starting to kind of establish, kind of. The tiny little plant in the front middle is some Rotalla "mini" sp. - thanks to Wolfenex~* (sp) I also have made the pearl weed into a "bush", which I do like in that form - although it needs a haircut. And I reintroduced some Ludwegia brevipes which is doing well this time. But it might not make the next draft.

The Blyxa aubertii is kicking in gear too.

Lastly, my new favorite plant, C. balansae (green) is throwing up babies and kicking in finally. Eventually that will be where the Hydrocotyle is (maybe??). Its starting to look like a typical jungle in there with 17 or 18 varieties. I have to check as much out as I can, being a newbie hobbiest.










This is what it looked like before the latest change:










Also, here is my new fav. suckermouth. A reticulated Hillstream loach. This is for those lucky few who haven't seen my many posts on these little fellows.










And to close this show is a semi close-up picture of Limnophila aromatica. It looks bad in the main shot due to a recent bushwack. Sorry if you've already seen this one too.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Oh yeah! It is looking great!

Watch the Crypt balansae. It is going to be a big plant and will overpower that midground position you have it in quickly. Keep the runners in check, too. They will spread out everywhere.

I like Hc, but I think your foreground will be better served with the Marsilea. You have some bigger plants in the foreground that may shade off and kill the Hc, while the Marsilea will do fine.

Beautiful aquarium!

Mike


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks Mike! Great suggestions. I'm finally starting to be happy with the direction this tank is going... 

Someday I'm going to yank the Hydrocotyle out, although I like the plant. Its just biomass. The Crypt balansae will fill out the back mid left... to the right of the stellata (where the hydrocotyle is now). Its long strap leaves should float from the left to the right with the top current... I started it in the mid area for now so it could get enough light to grow. So for now I'm going to let all of its offspring grow so I can move it sooner. 

Someday I envision a gateway between the bogwood and the L.aromatica giving the feeling of depth and more open area. By then I hope the Marselia will cover the foreground. Thanks again. bob:thumbsup:


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Bob, your eye for this is improving! The changes you have made are subtle, but solid IMO! Good work.

But some suggestions: Continue your trend of moving the large leaves to the sides. And get all your reds closer to the edges, except for where you are seeking a deliberate color counterpoint toward the middle.

Also, to parrot Momotaro-san's concerns, that balanese is going to go wild soon (I LOVE that plant!) and you need to think real hard about where you want that. But anyplace but somewhere in the background is the wrong answer IMO.

Great changes though IMO! Gosh, it's funny how we all learn...


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

scolley said:


> Also, to parrot Momotaro-san's concerns, that balanese is going to go wild soon (I LOVE that plant!) and you need to think real hard about where you want that. But anyplace but somewhere in the background is the wrong answer IMO.



Heya Steve, Thanks. Yeah, that has been my plan all along on the balansae. I just put it up front to catch enough light. It was a tiny chunk of root when I got it from AP.com. As soon as the babies catch up to momma, its going in the back row where the Hydrocotyle is, with the strap leaves floating toward the right with current. When I said "back mid left area", I meant the center left part of the background...

The L repens will also come out (or be cut very low) between the stellata and the bogwood for an open area. And the bogwood will be full of moss. Also the L. brevipes will probably come out and some L. arcuata in its place (maybe). Some "reductionism" will happen in the future - to borrow Ted's phrase.

Lastly, I'm thinking for a long time of some kind of orange opaque background with a clear LED hot light mimicking a setting sun for a background. You've seen the look in one of Amano's tanks. But that is a ways off. Cheers, bob


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

Yes Bob yer tank is takin off great! Very nice on the scape change...I immediately zoomed in on the crypt wendtii's!! I love the plants. One of mine will probably pout for a little while now that I plowed it over to a new location.


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