# LED Comparison: What am I missing?



## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

Hello All,

I'm a beginner trying to select lighting. Any suggestions you can offer would be hugely appreciated.

_Tank dimensions_: 24"L x 18"W x 18"H

_Lighting Requirement_: I don't want to be very restricted in terms of the plants that I'll be able to grow, and I'm pretty sure I'll want some sort of carpet in the foreground. I'm guessing this puts me in the "medium" to "high" range.

Now I've read through all sorts of lighting threads on here over the past week, and there's an incredible amount of information, honestly too much for me to synthesize. One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a debate over the merits of flourescent vs. LED, with no clear advantages one way or the other in terms of performance; for every reasonable person backing one there seems to be a reasonable person backing the other. It's my understanding that LEDs are more energy and space efficient, so I'm going that route unless someone convinces me otherwise.

OK, so then among the popular LED fixtures for freshwater, I can't seem to discern much of a reason to select one over the next. And yet there are some substantial price differences, leading me to believe I'm overlooking valuable features on the more expensive models.

For example, here are some of the fixtures I'm looking at, ordered by ascending price:


Current USA Satellite Freshwater LED Plus (18"), $92.99
Finnex Ray II Ultra Slim LED DS - Dual 7000k (24"), $94.99
AquaticLife EDGE LED Aquarium Light Fixture (24"), $139.99
Hagen Fluval Aqualife & Plant Full Spectrum Performance LED (24"), $174.99
Kessil A150WE 6500K Special Blend LED - Amazon Sun (2.5"d pendant), $224.99
Marineland Aquatic Plant Lighting System (24"), $278.99

The Current+ and Finnex Ray II are competitively priced, but the AquaticLife, also a 24" strip, is considerably more expensive, and the Hagen even more so. Meanwhile the Kessil pendant and Marineland strip are in a completely different price tier. 

From what I'm able to ascertain, I'll need two of whichever I select to get the PAR I need given the 18"W and 18"H of the tank.

I'm reeling with information overload. Can someone please help me make sense of it all?

Many Thanks!


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

I think your really missing out by not reviewing the buildmyLED.com fixtures. Also look at the recent thread for reds and LEDs. BMLs have some of the highest PAR values of LEDs and some good fixture options as well as optic angle options. They also have a new auto dimmer you can get that has some cool features. Check them out.


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

Thanks for the quick response. I will check out the BML site and revisit the reds and LEDs thread.

Edit: Thanks again for the tip. I'm reading through the BML site now, and it's pretty cool. Even if I don't end up buying one, they have some nice educational info.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

I would also add the new Radion XR15 Freshwater to your list.

http://ecotechmarine.com/products/radion/radion-xr15-freshwater/

One Radion with TIR 120 can do your entire tank.


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## Richniner (Jun 20, 2014)

Not to sound old fashioned but why not get just the plain Current LED for freshwater on Amazon for like $30-$45 dollars. You really don't need all that crazy lights changing colors stuff you get with the LED Plus fixture by Current. It's a fish tank not a discotheque . In my humble opinion of course!


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

gus6464 said:


> I would also add the new Radion XR15 Freshwater to your list.
> 
> http://ecotechmarine.com/products/radion/radion-xr15-freshwater/


Thanks, I will.



Richniner said:


> Not to sound old fashioned but why not get just the plain Current LED for freshwater on Amazon for like $30-$45 dollars. You really don't need all that crazy lights changing colors stuff you get with the LED Plus fixture by Current.


Is that all the Plus fixture has over the standard Satellite? I'm not so sure. This is sort of what I'm trying to get at with this thread. I'd like to break these fixtures down by attribute to compare.

Here are some of the attributes I see: Price; PAR; timer; dimming; and adjustable color. What other factors are important?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Pretty much everything on your list except for the Kessil requires two fixtures for good front to back spread. Aquaticlife and Fluval PAR is crap so if you want high tech those are out. Finnex makes everything looked washed out and is really bad with red pigments. You might and I mean might get by with 2 Sat+ but you might not be at high light because of your tank depth. You might get by with one marineland but you are going to have to hang it for good front to back spread and it's not full spectrum.

If you want full spectrum (and you should) these are the more realistic choices:

1. Multiple Current Sat+
2. Ecoxotic E-Series (might need two)
3. BML XB (hang it for good spread front to back)
4. Radion XR15FW

Sat+ requires an addon for it be automatic with ramp up and down.
Ecoxotic has the above built-in.
BML requires an addon to do any kind of controlling or dimming.
Radion has the most features out of all the above included.


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

Thanks! That's a nice succinct break down.

So here's what I'm seeing then:









This is based on what I've been able to cobble together from looking around on this site and elsewhere. I'm sure I can fill in some of those question marks with some more searching tomorrow. If anyone sees something in the table that is incorrect or thinks there's another light I should be considering, please let me know.

But based on the information I've got at this point, it does seem like my options are boiling down to: 
Ecoxotic E-Series
BML XB (hang it for good spread front to back)
Radion XR15FW


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

LRJ said:


> Thanks! That's a nice succinct break down.
> 
> So here's what I'm seeing then:
> 
> ...


The radion is $299. One of the reasons I recommend it is because you get a lot for your money. It does everything on your chart and then some.

It has 6 independent channels and the software has a boatload of options. Based on the radion xr15pro and its PAR output at 18 inches you are looking at close to 400 par at full power. On the right size tank the light is in a whole other league compared to the others.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

gus6464 said:


> The radion is $299. One of the reasons I recommend it is because you get a lot for your money. It does everything on your chart and then some.


Ah, I see. Thanks. I was accidentally looking at the Pro LED model. You were talking about this model: http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/ecotech-marine-radion-xr15fw-freshwater-led-module. I'll update that. Figured I have some incorrect numbers in there.

But actually, at 400 PAR, I'm a little concerned as to whether that might be a bit much. I guess this light has the ability to dial it back if I need to though.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Yes you can dial it down and tweak the color as you see fit. The software also has preset color temps you can run like if you want the tank to have 6500k, 8000k, 5000k look etc. I had a gen 1 radion when I had my nano reef and back then it did a lot of stuff. Sucks that its taken ecotech this long to make a freshwater version. Maybe I can convince my wife to get me one as a Christmas present 

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Reefbreeders
Beamswork
DSunY

Rodney Dangerfield of LED's...


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

gus6464 said:


> I would also add the new Radion XR15 Freshwater to your list.
> 
> http://ecotechmarine.com/products/radion/radion-xr15-freshwater/
> 
> One Radion with TIR 120 can do your entire tank.


According to the spectral distribution jpeg this light is deficient in 460 nm light. I would not consider this light for that reason.











That wavelength is a photosynthetic peak.


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

Steve001 said:


> According to the spectral distribution jpeg this light is deficient in 460 nm light.


Thanks for your input.

Hmm, I'm starting to think I'm not knowledgable enough to make a lighting decision right now. Perhaps I should postpone this aquarium until I have a better grasp of the technical details.

Is the "optimal" spectral power distribution for a planted aquarium (and I realize this depends on other factors such as plant species, but thinking in general terms) a matter of opinion or science? Can anyone recommend a good book or other source of information for learning about the nuts and bolts and lighting?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Steve001 said:


> According to the spectral distribution jpeg this light is deficient in 460 nm light. I would not consider this light for that reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Except that 460 is not a peak. The peak is at 450nm. There are no 460nm LEDs out there so I guess every single LED light people use is deficient. A standard white LED is a royal blue emitter with a yellow phosphor.

Bump:


LRJ said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> Hmm, I'm starting to think I'm not knowledgable enough to make a lighting decision right now. Perhaps I should postpone this aquarium until I have a better grasp of the technical details.
> 
> Is the "optimal" spectral power distribution for a planted aquarium (and I realize this depends on other factors such as plant species, but thinking in general terms) a matter of opinion or science? Can anyone recommend a good book or other source of information for learning about the nuts and bolts and lighting?


All lights on here can pretty much grow plants. The above information about the 460nm is completely false.


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## Onyx165 (Jul 16, 2013)

Chlorophyll b actually has a peak close to 460 (455 to be more precise), but the 430 peak of chlorophyll a is of far more importance. Plus, photosynthetic peaks are more of a range that pigments can use (which all lights advertised for growing plants will usually have)

In any case, the radion is putting out plenty of light in that region of the spectra, and certainly can't be disregarded



LRJ said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> Hmm, I'm starting to think I'm not knowledgable enough to make a lighting decision right now. Perhaps I should postpone this aquarium until I have a better grasp of the technical details.
> 
> Is the "optimal" spectral power distribution for a planted aquarium (and I realize this depends on other factors such as plant species, but thinking in general terms) a matter of opinion or science? Can anyone recommend a good book or other source of information for learning about the nuts and bolts and lighting?


Like gus said, all these lights mentioned will grow plants fine (on a spectral basis). If you want to get more "science-y", look into the common photosynthetic pigments of plants. The spectra for chlorophyll a is going to be of chief importance, so when you look at a lights output, you should see some nice spikes in the 420-460 range (blue), and in the 640-670 range (red).

More important though are your lights PAR and tank coverage, and, in my opinion, how the light looks and operates according to YOU. Check out youtube/product videos of each of these lights and decide for yourself what looks nicest. Personally, I love the kessils that my LFS puts over their display tanks, but everyone's eyes, brains, and personal tastes may be drawn to other lights.


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## Dragonxflare (Jul 1, 2014)

I've been using the Kessil 150 WE Amazon sun on my tank. The light is decent and has a very nice shimmer. I recently just decided to get new lights, and purchased the XB series, 6300k from Build my LED.

http://www.buildmyled.com/dutch-planted-6300k-xb-series/

Just waiting for this unit to come in so I can set it up. I will be updating my tank journal once it gets in, doing a minor comparison of the two.


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

gus6464 said:


> Except that 460 is not a peak. The peak is at 450nm. There are no 460nm LEDs out there so I guess every single LED light people use is deficient. A standard white LED is a royal blue emitter with a yellow phosphor.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> All lights on here can pretty much grow plants. The above information about the 460nm is completely false.


Thank you for the clarification. My extremely limited grasp of this stuff says that a graph of relative spectral distribution alone generally isn't sufficient information for deeming a light deficient in a particular wavelength - might say something about the _efficiency_ of growing plants, but not necessarily the _ability_ to grow them. I'm not sure though; I need to learn more.



Onyx165 said:


> Like gus said, all these lights mentioned will grow plants fine (on a spectral basis). If you want to get more "science-y", look into the common photosynthetic pigments of plants. The spectra for chlorophyll a is going to be of chief importance, so when you look at a lights output, you should see some nice spikes in the 420-460 range (blue), and in the 640-670 range (red).


Thank you, I'll look into this.



Dragonxflare said:


> I've been using the Kessil 150 WE Amazon sun on my tank. The light is decent and has a very nice shimmer. I recently just decided to get new lights, and purchased the XB series, 6300k from Build my LED.
> 
> http://www.buildmyled.com/dutch-planted-6300k-xb-series/
> 
> Just waiting for this unit to come in so I can set it up. I will be updating my tank journal once it gets in, doing a minor comparison of the two.


Awesome! I'll look forward to checking out your comparison. I'm going to hold off on buying anything until I've had a chance to try to learn more. I'm finding out that getting into this hobby requires scientific and technical knowledge that I just don't have.


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## ScaryFatKidGT (Jul 5, 2014)

1 Marineland planted light would work $195 at dr's http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+24726&pcatid=24726 It's really powerful at least from there readings, even if they are over shot a little.


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> 1 Marineland planted light would work $195 at dr's http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+24726&pcatid=24726 It's really powerful at least from there readings, even if they are over shot a little.


Thanks for the suggestion. This is actually one of the lights I was considering, but earlier in the thread it was pointed out that this is not a "full spectrum" (still not sure what the concrete definition of this term is or if it even has one) light, and that full spectrum is generally a desirable characteristic.


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## BooRadley (Aug 9, 2014)

Also a beginner. I found the whole LED research to cause me angst and headaches. I found "Build My LED" people to be really wonderful. Yep , not cheap, and I am a cheap person. But I really feel I got a great light and my plants seem to think so also. Just ordered my second. I found I was still debating on which light....a phone call was all I needed to get my questions answered and feel assured my $200 was well spent....now I have to wait for it to be built! can hardly wait


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

Nice! Seems like a lot of people have good things to say about the BML lights. What are the dimensions of your tank? Will the second fixture be going over the same tank?


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## Veritas (Aug 9, 2013)

the myth that red plants don't grow under the Ray2 is silly, and i'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up.

I have had zero issues with plant growth with my Ray2, even at 20" deep


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Veritas said:


> the myth that red plants don't grow under the Ray2 is silly, and i'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up.
> 
> I have had zero issues with plant growth with my Ray2, even at 20" deep


AFAICT it is just the spectrum is a bit "red deficient".. which means less to reflect back..


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> AFAICT it is just the spectrum is a bit "red deficient".. which means less to reflect back..


I think this is probably the most accurate way of saying it. But then I ask, doesn't it matter just as much that they _look_ red?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

AnotherHobby said:


> I think this is probably the most accurate way of saying it. But then I ask, doesn't it matter just as much that they _look_ red?


Exactly. If you don't care about your plant looking red then don't buy a red plant in the first place.

Bump:


Veritas said:


> the myth that red plants don't grow under the Ray2 is silly, and i'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up.
> 
> I have had zero issues with plant growth with my Ray2, even at 20" deep


Don't see any red plants in your tank with the Ray 2.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

gus6464 said:


> Don't see any red plants in your tank with the Ray 2.


To be fair, my Ray 2 grew red plants. They didn't look as good as they do under my current lights, but it absolutely grew red plants. I agree that it's not fair to say it doesn't. They just don't look as good as they could.


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## ScaryFatKidGT (Jul 5, 2014)

LRJ said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. This is actually one of the lights I was considering, but earlier in the thread it was pointed out that this is not a "full spectrum" (still not sure what the concrete definition of this term is or if it even has one) light, and that full spectrum is generally a desirable characteristic.


ARe any LED's? It's got daylight LEDs along with 3 watt RGB LEDs that provide 460nm blue, 660nm red, and green accent lighting. Those are the peaks you need, far red and 450nm or close blue.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

gus6464 said:


> Except that 460 is not a peak. The peak is at 450nm. There are no 460nm LEDs out there so I guess every single LED light people use is deficient. A standard white LED is a royal blue emitter with a yellow phosphor.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> All lights on here can pretty much grow plants. The above information about the 460nm is completely false.


There certainly are leds at 460nm as well as others in that range. See here http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ 
I endeavor not to pass on inaccurate info, however the peak you mention is based upon the response of chlorophyll dissolved by an inorganic solvent, vary the solvent and the response will vary somewhat. Neither of us is wrong. http://plantsinaction.science.uq.ed...-absorption-and-photosynthetic-action-spectra

Bump:


LRJ said:


> Thank you for the clarification. My extremely limited grasp of this stuff says that a graph of relative spectral distribution alone generally isn't sufficient information for deeming a light deficient in a particular wavelength - might say something about the _efficiency_ of growing plants, but not necessarily the _ability_ to grow them. I'm not sure though; I need to learn more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's another app to play with http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/
You may encounter a lag time as the program computes.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Steve001 said:


> There certainly are leds at 460nm as well as others in that range. See here http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/
> I endeavor not to pass on inaccurate info, however the peak you mention is based upon the response of chlorophyll dissolved by an inorganic solvent, vary the solvent and the response will vary somewhat. Neither of us is wrong. http://plantsinaction.science.uq.ed...-absorption-and-photosynthetic-action-spectra
> 
> Bump:
> ...


The Osram Oslon SSL deep blue which is what the Radion uses pushes 449-461 according to the website you linked.


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## Veritas (Aug 9, 2013)

gus6464 said:


> Exactly. If you don't care about your plant looking red then don't buy a red plant in the first place.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> Don't see any red plants in your tank with the Ray 2.


tank journal is way out of date homie. My ludwigia repens, rotalla and A. Reicknii never have had any problems "looking red" under the Ray2.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Richniner said:


> Not to sound old fashioned but why not get just the plain Current LED for freshwater on Amazon for like $30-$45 dollars. You really don't need all that crazy lights changing colors stuff you get with the LED Plus fixture by Current. It's a fish tank not a discotheque . In my humble opinion of course!


I know the thread is a bit old but I'm reading to decide on a light also and ran across this and considered it, but then checked.

The LED (no plus) at 24" is PAR 8.

The LED+ at 24" is PAR 21.

That's quite a difference in power, not just the bells and whistles.


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

I ended up ordering the Radion XR15FW: http://ecotechmarine.com/products/radion/radion-xr15-freshwater (which should hopefully get here in a day or two). Some people don't like its spectral distribution. Guess I'll see; have to make some mistakes in order to learn. If I didn't get the Radion, I was going to go with BML.


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