# Siamese Algae Eater vs Denison barb fight?



## Fish Em (Jul 3, 2015)

I don't know the level of aggression of SAE. You are sure it is not a chinese algae eater?

Those will munch on slime coats pf other fish when its diet is lacking.

If SAE's are not aggressive, I would say your Denison barbs were dying from some illness and your SAE picked on your barb because he was dying. My fish will harrass the dying ones. Pick at them, pluck their eyes out, charge them...
I had clown loaches and mollies do this.


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## Natasha (Nov 22, 2015)

The thing is, anything is possible, so it could be that your SAE is attacking your denisons. That being said, I have 3 full grown SAEs who are extremely peaceful with each other and all other fish in the tank, large or small, so I think something sounds off about this story.

I'd agree with the above that chinese algae eaters can be mistaken for SAEs and they can wreak havoc, but even more commonly I've seen (siamese) flying foxes mistaken for SAEs, and they too get aggressive to their own kind/look-alikes as they mature. These can be quite difficult to differentiate from SAEs sometimes.

This thread compares a true SAE and a CAE:
Otocinclus vs Chinese Algae Eaters vs Siamese Algae Eaters | AquaScaping World Forum

Here is a comparison with sketches:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Mx_BrZVvqwY/UREsIHqoUgI/AAAAAAAAJVY/NnW8jrWESHc/s1600/AE.jpg


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

If they are true SAE, then I would say that they are not the issue, my 2 SAE live with neons and small tetras without issues. They are a bit aggressive toward each other when I feed them, but they are normally peaceful. I would see if they are Chinese algae eaters or even Flying Fox, as they are both aggressive.


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## SpaceLord (Feb 29, 2016)

sohankpatel said:


> If they are true SAE, then I would say that they are not the issue, my 2 SAE live with neons and small tetras without issues. They are a bit aggressive toward each other when I feed them, but they are normally peaceful. I would see if they are Chinese algae eaters or even Flying Fox, as they are both aggressive.



1. I have a aquarium full of various types of community fish including much smaller fish and even a algae eating shrimp. The SAE is mostly aggressive towards the denison barb and not really the other fish. I have seen it chase the denison barb several times on multiple days but only chased another fish like 1 time. The Twig catfish went under it and it did not even care. Its almost like its threaten because it has almost identical body shape and size otherwise why not attack the other fish as well? The tank is so full, there are always fish swimming by it at all times but only the Dension barb really sets it off. 

2. The Petstore did advertise it as a Flying fox however I don't see any yellow on its tail and I think I counted a single pair of barbells however they are so small its hard to see. 

My understanding is there are 4 fish which look almost identical. CAE, SAE, Flying fox and false flying fox . 

So its possible its a flying fox since that is what the petstore had it labeled. Let me ask you a question, do you have a Denison barb in with youur SAE or any other fish that looks like a Dension barb in terms of body shape such as one of these fake freshwater shark look to it?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

pictures. Flying fox are very territorial.


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

SpaceLord said:


> My understanding is there are 4 fish which look almost identical. CAE, SAE, Flying fox and false flying fox .
> 
> So its possible its a flying fox since that is what the petstore had it labeled. Let me ask you a question, do you have a Denison barb in with youur SAE or any other fish that looks like a Dension barb in terms of body shape such as one of these fake freshwater shark look to it?


CAE have a large, pronounced sucker mouth. I don;t see how they are commonly confused. flying fox's stripe is smooth, it doesn't follow the scale pattern, the SAE's black stripe follows the scaled, so the edges look jagged. Also, my SAE's tails turn yellow-ish after they age a bit, and it seems like others have seen that too.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Visually a Chinese algae eater is hard to mistake for an SAE or Flying Fox. Honestly, now that SAEs are readily available everywhere I don't see why fish stores even carry Chinese Algae Eaters anymore.

For me the easiest way to distinguish between an SAE and Flying fox is to look at the stripe. 

An SAE has a ragged black stripe between a white belly and an olive/golden (or clear if they're young) back.
















The Flying Fox, OTOH, has a white belly and a black back that has a smooth gold stripe running through it (not my picture).









All the SAEs I've kept have been peaceful except when hogging food during feedings. :icon_smil


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## SpaceLord (Feb 29, 2016)

mistergreen said:


> pictures. Flying fox are very territorial.



Here is a link to the picture of my FISH. 

Here are some more pictures. 

To me, it looks like a SAE but it was advertised as flying fox at the Petstore. 

What do you guys think?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Looks like a SAE.

Unfortunately most pet stores just label their fish as whatever their distributor sold them as.

As for the cause of the injuries to your Denisons, of the fish you list as tank mates maybe you have a aggressive pearl gourami. I've had gouramis in the past that have been unsuitable for community tank living.


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## SpaceLord (Feb 29, 2016)

bharada said:


> Looks like a SAE.
> 
> Unfortunately most pet stores just label their fish as whatever their distributor sold them as.
> 
> As for the cause of the injuries to your Denisons, of the fish you list as tank mates maybe you have a aggressive pearl gourami. I've had gouramis in the past that have been unsuitable for community tank living.


Did you have pearl Gourami or another gourami? 

My pearl Gouramis are cowards, they are scared to even come out from their hiding place except when I feed them, they might come out for a few seconds. 

That list was kind of a shorten list. Here is a full list: 

Glow-light Tetra Neon Tetra Black Neon Tetra Black molly Denison Barb Silver Hatchetfish Blood Fin Tetra Pristella Tetra Golden Wonder Killifish Pearl Danio Lyretail Molly Long Fin tetra minor BristleNose Pleco Rosy Tetra Sword tail Platy Orange Platy Red 
Scissortail rasboras Harlequin Rasbora red wag swordtails Pearl Gourami Amno Shrimp Siamese algae eater Orange Von Rio Tetra Black Ruby barb Cherry Barbs Cobra Guppy Fancy tail guppy Long Fin zebra fish Zebra fish Penguin Tetra Leopard Long fin Danio

I have only seen that SAE and in one case the Rosy Tetra chase the Denison barb but mostly it has been that SAE. 

Its strange because the SAE does not have this reputation like the flying fox or CAE.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

I had a pearl gourami that would nip at my top feeders (swordtails and guppys). But it wasn't anywhere as bad as a blue gourami I had a long time ago. That fish was a terror.

The gourami was a reach since the rest of your fish don't seem capable of terrorizing a denison. So maybe you do have a rogue SAE.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Interesting mix of fish. What temperature are you running.... Denison's are temperate zone fish , that do better in water a bit cooler than what we use for tropical.

Also, shark shaped freshwater fish tend to have it in for each other on the whole, with few exceptions.


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## SpaceLord (Feb 29, 2016)

Nordic said:


> Interesting mix of fish. What temperature are you running.... Denison's are temperate zone fish , that do better in water a bit cooler than what we use for tropical.
> 
> Also, shark shaped freshwater fish tend to have it in for each other on the whole, with few exceptions.


The heater's thermometer is set for exactly 75 degrees however sometimes the tanks somehow gets a little warmer then what I set it for probably due to UV sterilizer light or pumps,etc... On average I guess 75 degrees. 

I made a master list of every fish and put the temperature of each fish. I found that at 75 degrees I was at the lower limit of some fish and the higher limit of other fish. 

However I do have a 55 gallon aquarium with smaller fish which is run at a lower temperature and have considered putting the Denison barb in the lower temperature aquarium however avoided it since I have about 100 Red cherry Shrimp. What do you think? 

Thanks.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

They recommend taking them down to at least 70 for a few days every year.
I think some goldfish will not even lay eggs without a cold spell in winter first.
Nature is weird and we understand only wisps of its interconnectedness.


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## SpaceLord (Feb 29, 2016)

Nordic said:


> They recommend taking them down to at least 70 for a few days every year.
> I think some goldfish will not even lay eggs without a cold spell in winter first.
> Nature is weird and we understand only wisps of its interconnectedness.


If it were not for the stress of catching and moving fish, I probably would have moved him to the 55 gallon which is kept at about 72-73 vs the 75 gallon being kept at 75-77 degrees. 

If I buy any new Denison barb, I will put them into the 55 gallon and if it works out ok, then move the one from my gallon into the colder tank. 

Can you keep Denison barbs with Goldfish? Seem like they both like the colder water? 

Thanks.


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## fishman922 (Oct 26, 2016)

I owned 3 SAE's for about 4 years. They went from being about an inch long to nearly 4 in that time span. The only behavior I even noticed even remotely similar was one trying to eat a dead ghost shrimp. This is very surprising to me, my SAE's didn't even bother molly fry. I do know that they are a schooling fish and have (supposedly) done really strange things when not in a school. The picture you provided seems a little off to me, the stripe seems to smooth. Perhaps that is just the picture.
One thing that has crossed my mind is that SAE's will chase each other a bit. It is, from my understanding, normal. They would zoom around the tank for a few minutes then all settle down. Perhaps this is what your SAE is trying to do with the Denison barb?


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## SpaceLord (Feb 29, 2016)

fishman922 said:


> I owned 3 SAE's for about 4 years. They went from being about an inch long to nearly 4 in that time span. The only behavior I even noticed even remotely similar was one trying to eat a dead ghost shrimp. This is very surprising to me, my SAE's didn't even bother molly fry. I do know that they are a schooling fish and have (supposedly) done really strange things when not in a school. The picture you provided seems a little off to me, the stripe seems to smooth. Perhaps that is just the picture.
> One thing that has crossed my mind is that SAE's will chase each other a bit. It is, from my understanding, normal. They would zoom around the tank for a few minutes then all settle down. Perhaps this is what your SAE is trying to do with the Denison barb?


I'm not sure but I know that 2 out of 3 denison barbs are dead, one had a large wound on its side and this SAE is chasing the remaining living one around and seems to have a vendetta against for some reason. 
Those denison barbs are like $15 each and an endangered species. Very unhappy about them dying. 
You are thinking that getting more SAE may help calm this behavior? 

Thanks.


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## fishman922 (Oct 26, 2016)

SpaceLord said:


> I'm not sure but I know that 2 out of 3 denison barbs are dead, one had a large wound on its side and this SAE is chasing the remaining living one around and seems to have a vendetta against for some reason.
> Those denison barbs are like $15 each and an endangered species. Very unhappy about them dying.
> You are thinking that getting more SAE may help calm this behavior?
> 
> Thanks.


Considering the Denison barbs are endangered and expensive I would still try to move him away from the SAE. (Maybe move the SAE to a different tank??).
If the SAE is causing problems with fish other than the Denison you might try getting another two SAE's (If at all possible). In terms of general health it is recommended to have schooling fish in groups of at least three. 
My SAE's came from aquarium fish.net (I have no association with them) and cost me quite a bit due to shipping. The SAE's would be fairly expensive to get and it would be on the gamble that it will calm the SAE down and leave your Denison's alone. I would probably move one or the other... But yes it might calm the SAE down. I am by no means an expert on either species but I wanted to share my observations after owning them.


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## SpaceLord (Feb 29, 2016)

fishman922 said:


> Considering the Denison barbs are endangered and expensive I would still try to move him away from the SAE. (Maybe move the SAE to a different tank??).
> If the SAE is causing problems with fish other than the Denison you might try getting another two SAE's (If at all possible). In terms of general health it is recommended to have schooling fish in groups of at least three.
> My SAE's came from aquarium fish.net (I have no association with them) and cost me quite a bit due to shipping. The SAE's would be fairly expensive to get and it would be on the gamble that it will calm the SAE down and leave your Denison's alone. I would probably move one or the other... But yes it might calm the SAE down. I am by no means an expert on either species but I wanted to share my observations after owning them.



Are you saying the Denison's or the SAE was expensive to buy online? 

Thanks.


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## fishman922 (Oct 26, 2016)

SpaceLord said:


> Are you saying the Denison's or the SAE was expensive to buy online?
> 
> Thanks.


The SAE's were pretty expensive. That was because of the shipping. (To the tune of $60 for all three if I recall)... 

I have never had a Denison.


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