# Favorite Substrate



## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

I am looking in to setting up a 29 gallon planted aquarium and I am trying to figure out substrate I should use. What is your favorite substrate? What do you like it for (easy to keep plant clippings stuck in it so the sprout, plants grow best in it, looks nice etc.) 
Please include the brand name and approximate size.


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## canabinoids (Nov 22, 2010)

i've been using ADA aquasoil all this while...great soil...but the thing is they tend to crumble over time...i've been itching to try seachem floourite range...saw a sample once...look nice...and since its clay i doubt it will crumble like ADA aquasoil...


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

I would get something similar to ada soil ( fluval shrimp stratum <--- my favorite, azoo makes a soil, mr.aqua makes one. I was using inert gravels and for close to the same price it is worth it to get the soil ones. 

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## Coltonorr (Mar 12, 2008)

Mineralized top soil has been my favorite. It takes time to "make" it but the results can be very nice.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

My favorite is Flourite black.

I've used it plain, mixed with other substrates, capping MTS, and most recenty as a cap for Miracle Gro organic potting mix.

I like both the "regular" black (which is about 3mm in size, looks like crushed rock) and the black sand... which is much smaller in size and looks like... sand. lol

I like Flourite better than Eco Complete personally because I prefer the uniform color and grain size and that Flourite won't mess with water parameters like Eco can (especially when first setting up the tank).


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

What would you recommend a more sand like substrate or a more course substrate almost like pebbles?


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

I love Flourite sand, just wish it was cheaper in my area.


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## Hadley (Dec 12, 2010)

ADA Aqua Soil.

Other than fighting the initial cloudiness, I just love this stuff.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm another fan of ADA Aqua Soil . . . but I'm going to try the Walstad soil method for my next tank just as a comparison.


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

I was wanting to use a white or whiteish colored sand. do you think I could use Flourite with a white sand on top and still get the same results?


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## MrK (Oct 27, 2010)

You could cover your Flourite with silica sand but they will eventually mix.

You could also keep an area with only white sand and use Flourite for the areas where the plants will be


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## zyn1 (Aug 26, 2010)

Flourite works for me


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

The only substrates I've used are in the order of most favorite to least:

1. CaribSea Eco-Complete
PROS: Dark Black, can hold nutrients, doesn't break down, doesn't cloud up for too long
CONS: Pieces may be too big, may have other color pieces, 


2. Mr. Aqua Water Plants Activated Soil 
PRO: lowers pH, cute and small dark brown round balls, cloudy goes away quick
CON: huge ammonia spike at the beginning, may be light and easy to disturb, may break down?

3. CaribSea Tahitian Moon Sand
PRO: Nice black color
CON: particles may be too small and heavy, too thick layer will create anaerobic spots, inert

4. Aquarium Gravel
PRO: Comes in many colors to suit your fancy
CON: Inert, grain size may be too big


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

How deep should I make the substrate (4 to 6 inches etc.). I would like to grow a wide range of plants. I'm not sure if the depth of the substrate will make a difference in how well the "hard to grow" plants will grow.


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## Aubzilla (Mar 2, 2008)

Depth of substrate will depend on grain size- you wouldn't want more than 2-3 inches of sand due to anaerobic pockets but 4-5 inches of Flourite/Eco/ADA would be fine(if cost wasn't a factor).

Generally, you won't want more than 3 inches. Too shallow of a layer means not enough room for proper roots to develop, but too deep and it can be a waste of money.

Edit- Forgot to post waht I use!
I use mineralized topsoil capped with pool filter sand or Tahitian moon sand, depending on what color I want to look at.


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## Lugnut (Aug 12, 2010)

I really like something called Lupis lustre as a cap over MTS or MG potting soil. It is clean, same size, round not jagged, kiln dried.


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## reignOfFred (Jun 7, 2010)

I don't know, but I can tell you that I started with eco-complete black and have since mixed it with fluorite and I have noticed improvement in my rooting plants. In the future (although I do plant on trying the soil route sometime) I would go with fluorite over ecocomplete - mostly the lack of needing to rinse is what sold me on that stuff.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Reign, what do you mean by having to rinse eco-complete? Do you mean to clean the tank or initial scaping?

I have Eco-Complete without zero problems...of course that may be because there's nothing in the tank other than rocks and eco-complete 

As far the depth goes..yes..anything like MG potting mix and potting soil, you must be careful to limit it to 1-2 inches as it will go anaerobic otherwise.

I have nearly 6-inches of eco-complete (yea thats a lot) to forge a mountainscape. I wasn't sure what other option I really had to get the vertical height for a mountainscape...it was easier to buy 40 bucks worth of eco-complete


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

Aubzilla said:


> Depth of substrate will depend on grain size- you wouldn't want more than 2-3 inches of sand due to anaerobic pockets but 4-5 inches of Flourite/Eco/ADA would be fine(if cost wasn't a factor).
> 
> Generally, you won't want more than 3 inches. Too shallow of a layer means not enough room for proper roots to develop, but too deep and it can be a waste of money.
> 
> ...


How do you keep the layer that you want to look at from mixing with mineralized topsoil?


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## reignOfFred (Jun 7, 2010)

by rinsing i mean you dont actually need to rinse it before using it while the flourite needs a thoroughly. it is worth the rinsing.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Maybe I'm just reading it wrong..

Eco-complete doesn't require washing (mine specifically said not to). I believe Flourite requires it...so eco complete wins. Sounded like you were saying the opposite in your first post 

I hear flourite is a pain in the butt to wash though, you are right.


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## GitMoe (Aug 30, 2010)

Fluval Stratum (shrimp) is my favorite so far...


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## Aubzilla (Mar 2, 2008)

Elliot said:


> How do you keep the layer that you want to look at from mixing with mineralized topsoil?


MTS and sand have a very similar grain size so they don't really mix. I make a slope in the front and sides of the sand so that I don't see the MTS at all when looking at the tank.


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## daverock1337 (Jan 17, 2011)

i also used mineralized topsoil with pool filter sand as a cap. i didn;t have time to make it myself, so i bought from a member of this forum, complete kit with everything ready to go. i did an outline of the pfs around the tank before putting the mts in also, so you don;t see the layers. i love it, hoping my plants will also. (ive got more coming within a week and some manzanita tomorrow, but here is a pic so you can see the pfs in a 29 gallon tank.)


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

Aubzilla said:


> MTS and sand have a very similar grain size so they don't really mix. I make a slope in the front and sides of the sand so that I don't see the MTS at all when looking at the tank.


Do you ever vacuum out your gravel?


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## reignOfFred (Jun 7, 2010)

> Eco-complete doesn't require washing (mine specifically said not to). I believe Flourite requires it...so eco complete wins. Sounded like you were saying the opposite in your first post


NO! What I meant to say was that I went the lazy way and it turned out the fluorite is MUCH better. I will be happily rinsing more fluorite to outweigh the old eco-craplete.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Ahh...now that makes more sense LOL.


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## Aubzilla (Mar 2, 2008)

Elliot said:


> Do you ever vacuum out your gravel?


Sorry for the late reply! 
But no, not exactly. Since sand has a fine grain size, it packs a bit tighter than say Flourite or gravel so the poop and stuff stays primarily on the top of the sand. I just hover the end of the tube over the sand an suck up the poop. Sometimes I suck up a bit of sand but the bucket in the sink under the python outlet catches any oopsies.


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

Aubzilla said:


> Sorry for the late reply!
> But no, not exactly. Since sand has a fine grain size, it packs a bit tighter than say Flourite or gravel so the poop and stuff stays primarily on the top of the sand. I just hover the end of the tube over the sand an suck up the poop. Sometimes I suck up a bit of sand but the bucket in the sink under the python outlet catches any oopsies.


Don't worry about late replies.:smile: This is very interesting. I might be able to have my white sand dream. :icon_lol:


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

after using eco, flori, reg aquarium gravel, playsand i have to say i really like the look and feel of some 3m color quartz now just have to pick some up soon


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ADA Aquasoil is my favorite by far. 


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

ADA Amazonia capped with Flourite...the more expensive version to the DIY mineralized topsoil.


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. Another question: Are you supposed to vacuum out the ADA Aquasoil?


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## kizzabennett (Nov 30, 2010)

Eco-complete, no mess, no fuss, simples!


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

I've been doing some thinking lately and I might actually use ADA aqua soil but I need to know if I could put pool filter sand on top of the ADA without it settling down to the bottom. Anybody ever tried this or is this the first time it has been thought of? If you don't speak from experience feel free to share your thoughts.


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

I was going to post a thread on this very topic. I am confused myself as there are so many different aquarium substrates on the market. I've tried Flourite and hated it. It took me forever to wash it out and then it still clouded up the tank. The dust took forever to come off the decos, plants, etc. I was looking into the ADA soil, AZoo soil, EcoComplete, and Flora Base. I have heard so many good things about Eco-Complete and like that it lasts for a year and doesn't need gravel vacs. Then I see the Flora base and hear that is good and can be mixed w/ river stone gravel. Then I hear some soils are bad for shrimps. I'm confused myself. Hope you pick something and share with us.


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

I'll be able to tell you what my decision is when I get replies to posts 33 and 35. I don't have enough information to make a decision yet.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Elliot said:


> I'll be able to tell you what my decision is when I get replies to posts 33 and 35. I don't have enough information to make a decision yet.


No and No.


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## purebishop (Feb 16, 2011)

love flourite black sand myself. have used it in 3 different tanks, all with great success and growth, with minimal algae


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

I'll probably just use ada aquasoil then. Which one would you recommend?


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## JL15219 (Nov 10, 2008)

I believe the most recommend one is Amazonia


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Anyone try running a cheaper substrate (Oil-Dri, Turface, etc) capped with a more expensive one (ADA and all the new "shrimp" substrates) and like it?


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## Aquascapejackson (Feb 25, 2011)

eco complete...nuff' said


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

Can Eco-Complete be poured into an existing tank w/out a mess?


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## Java Moss (Jan 17, 2011)

Gotten sick and tired of trying to find the right substrate. Flourite and Floramax are a mess and too nasty for dojos. Was almost sold on Eco Complete until fish started dying off one by one every few days - infamous bad batch - causing complete overhaul of tank. Aquasoil costs $35 for a 20 pound bag at the nearest LFS. 

Went with regular blue gravel last fall and with the addition of Flourish Tabs and a few poor man's tricks illustrated in other threads in this forum...have had the best growth by far. Still a novice, but I'm trying and learning a lot from you good people. 

Wife had some NuSalt in the pantry she never uses...there solves my potassium problem! Almost 100% potassium, little dab 'll do ya...unlike that 2% liquid sold for $9 a pop.


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

It really depends on the plants one's trying to grow IMO.


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## seijai (Apr 6, 2011)

Either ADA Amazonia or eco-complete


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## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

> Was almost sold on Eco Complete until fish started dying off one by one every few days - infamous bad batch - causing complete overhaul of tank.


Um, what? There's more to that story.

I put three bags of Eco Complete in my recent 29g and love it. I patiently cycled the tank for two weeks and fish are doing great. It's a no-maintenance all purpose substrate, couldn't be happier. 

Sent via Android


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## jetajockey (Aug 23, 2010)

Mineralized Topsoil, the work involved is worth it, both in efficiency and overall cost savings.


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## freshmoney (Apr 18, 2011)

i have a 55 gal i want to set up planted w/ fish right now no co/2 keep it simple. im thinking about use some turface mvp.........after alot of research seems like the cheapest solution for me. no time and space for mineralized topsoil.

i see most people just use a small layer of peat under it and thats it, and have had great success. I have some MG organic laying around. what is my best option........

1.small layer of peat(just sprinkle) and 3-3.5 inches of turface 
2.small layer of peat(just sprinkle) 1-1.5 inch of MG organic and 2 inches of turface.
3. Open to any other cheap idea.

thank you for your replies......


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

IME, ADA amazonia II is the best planted tank substrate. I've used ADA AM I and the Taiwanese aquasoil knock off (name of brand and company currently escape me) and amazonia II has produced the best results. Of course these are just my observations and not the results of any controlled testing. 

I've also used fluorite, fluorite sand and akadama double red line. 

For growing plants, hands down amazonia 2.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

freshmoney said:


> i have a 55 gal i want to set up planted w/ fish right now no co/2 keep it simple. im thinking about use some turface mvp.........after alot of research seems like the cheapest solution for me. no time and space for mineralized topsoil.
> 
> i see most people just use a small layer of peat under it and thats it, and have had great success. I have some MG organic laying around. what is my best option........
> 
> ...


Rinse the peat first and put down about a half an inch. Cover with at least 2 inches of turface. I did the same thing long ago with fluorite. It worked well but don't expect to get aquasoil type results or anything.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Elliot said:


> Thanks for all the replies. Another question: Are you supposed to vacuum out the ADA Aquasoil?


No, not really. I do it in a shrimp breeding tank, but that's a whole different story. Just make sure that before you fill the tank with water, place the aquasoil bags on top of the freshly laid substrate and pour the water on the bags.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

psalm18.2 said:


> I was going to post a thread on this very topic. I am confused myself as there are so many different aquarium substrates on the market. I've tried Flourite and hated it. It took me forever to wash it out and then it still clouded up the tank. The dust took forever to come off the decos, plants, etc. I was looking into the ADA soil, AZoo soil, EcoComplete, and Flora Base. I have heard so many good things about Eco-Complete and like that it lasts for a year and doesn't need gravel vacs. Then I see the Flora base and hear that is good and can be mixed w/ river stone gravel. Then I hear some soils are bad for shrimps. I'm confused myself. Hope you pick something and share with us.


Eco complete wouldn't be very good for a crystal red shrimp tank because a lot of people report that it increases your gH. Good shrimp soils strip out the kH and some gH from the water and make it acidic. But if a substrate doesn't have these abilities, it isn't in any way harmful to the shrimp, it simply is optimal.

I can assure you that ADA is far superior to any of the other soils listed.


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## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

snausage said:


> Eco complete wouldn't be very good for a crystal red shrimp tank because a lot of people report that it increases your gH. Good shrimp soils strip out the kH and some gH from the water and make it acidic.


I didn't experience that. But, even if you do, it's only a short-term issue. Everything in an aquarium equalizes over time if you just have some patience. The problem with a lot of these statements is that they are from people that are impatient and start conducting tests on day 2 of filling a tank and trying to extrapolate the results over the long term. It's wildly inaccurate to do so.


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## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

I was under the impression that eco-complete was a gravel coated with nutrients and diminishes over time.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

Simple play sand that you can get at lowes is what I have and am quite pleased with how my plants grew in it. As far as heavy root feeding plants go I cannot believe my plants could have grown better had I gone with an actual aquatic substrate instead. My melon sword is as of right now busting 26" and is sending up flowers and 1-2 new leaves every week without any Co2 or ferts. When I had the Co2 + ferts rolling it was growing 10+ new leaves a week. 
[opinion]
Personally from my experience I would save the money you would spend on an expensive substrate and buy Co2 equipment.
[/opinion]


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## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

home grown said:


> I was under the impression that eco-complete was a gravel coated with nutrients and diminishes over time.


Where did you get that impression? It's a really odd concept.


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## larams67 (Jan 24, 2006)

ktownhero said:


> Where did you get that impression? It's a really odd concept.



Is it? From my research it does have a coating of nutrients on it. Could be wrong but that's what I've read.


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

Have you made any decisions yet?


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## Java Moss (Jan 17, 2011)

ktownhero said:


> Um, what? There's more to that story.
> 
> I put three bags of Eco Complete in my recent 29g and love it. I patiently cycled the tank for two weeks and fish are doing great. It's a no-maintenance all purpose substrate, couldn't be happier.
> 
> Sent via Android


Caribsea put out a "bad batch" a year or so ago and I unfortunately got some of it. 

Example: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/68450-eco-complete-bad.html


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## Bree (Dec 17, 2010)

I LOVE and cannot recommend enough the flourite Dark, it has the perfect colour and holds plants down well, it is fine for corys and any other fish i have had in my tank. Just wash it well to start off with. ^^


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

I've messed with flourite & eco-complete, and I would have to say eco complete wins.. well with the rinsing part....

I had to rinse flourite for about an hour and still got some mirky water (yea It went away after a few days)

eco-complete, straight out of the bag and crystal clear water xD


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## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

Java Moss said:


> Caribsea put out a "bad batch" a year or so ago and I unfortunately got some of it.
> 
> Example: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/68450-eco-complete-bad.html


Nothing in that thread talks about the "bad batch" causing any serious issues in the tanks, like you described. In fact, it appears that there were people that preferred the "bad batches" to the regular stuff.


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