# LED for Depth



## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

I have been researching LED's for a 90 tall, which is 24 inches deep. I have found LED's that can reach this depth, but the lights must be raised so it reaches all parts of the tank. My 90 tall has a wood canopy top, so the LED will be resting upon the top glass. I think that puts me at 120 degrees beam angle? 
I would like a single LED fixture. With more than one light, I lose a lot of work room at the top of the tank.
I am looking to grow medium and high light plants, lots of color... Pretty much anything I want. It will be CO2 injected.
Cost range is flexible, but hopefully not over $500.
Does anyone have suggestions for a deep tank, or experience with their own?
Thanks in advance!
Julie


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## tlarsen (Feb 6, 2014)

I am looking for something similar. My 75G is 24 inches deep, and I currently have a marineland planted LED which supposedly has 83 PAR at 24 inches, but only directly below the light. It has very poor spread, and I think I need to invest in something else to get better coverage for the high light demands of foreground and background.


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## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

On my 90 gal planted tank I use two Current-USA Satellite Plus Pro's. Something similar should work well for you. If you require higher light levels, you could add another fixture.

I would also suggest that you might want to just remove the canopy and not use it. LED lighting like this is very thin and not at all "invasive" like the fixtures of old were. 

As for multiple fixtures, this is something your more or less stuck with when using LED strip lighting. LEDs like to direct their light straight down. A single fixture might make the bottom of the tank look ok, but there will be dark sections at the surface. Anything swimming in these dark areas will not show off well. You could go with a suspended lighting solution like Kessil but that's a whole different way of doing things, and even there you would need two fixtures due to the length of a 90 gal tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

90's are usually 18" wide and 48 long.. The wide dimension is somewhat important..
Also the height of the hood..Many LEd's are thn enough to be raised up off the top a bit and still fit well in a hood..


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

Good to know that the canopy will allow for most fixtures... 
Is the beam angle 120 degrees correct, if the fixture sits upon the glass, or 5 inches or so above? I have read a lot of reports of fixtures suspended 15+ inches above the tank... Would 5 inches light up the water surface? I am mostly concerned about adequate light for growing plants.
The problem with adding more than 1 fixture is that I cannot get into the tank to work, without literally removing the fixture. (Also avoid getting it wet!)
Or am I misunderstanding this - Are 2 24 inch fixtures placed end-on-end to get complete coverage of the tank bottom?
What LED's would be strong enough to reach the 24 inch depth, if they were placed end-on-end?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> Good to know that the canopy will allow for most fixtures...
> Is the beam angle 120 degrees correct, if the fixture sits upon the glass, or 5 inches or so above? I have read a lot of reports of fixtures suspended 15+ inches above the tank... Would 5 inches light up the water surface? I am mostly concerned about adequate light for growing plants.
> The problem with adding more than 1 fixture is that I cannot get into the tank to work, without literally removing the fixture. (Also avoid getting it wet!)
> Or am I misunderstanding this - Are 2 24 inch fixtures placed end-on-end to get complete coverage of the tank bottom?
> What LED's would be strong enough to reach the 24 inch depth, if they were placed end-on-end?


15" w/ optics or someone is quite wasteful..or a 24" wide tank.
A row of 120 degree leds @ 15" has a cone diameter of 52"...


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

Can you elaborate on that, Jeffkrol?
I'm not certain what you mean - Still learning a lot about LED's


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> Can you elaborate on that, Jeffkrol?
> I'm not certain what you mean - Still learning a lot about LED's


first you need to understand each LED is a point light source.
Then the beam angle determines the light spread.. 
Narrower angle less spread:









Just use inches instead of feet in the above..
4" and 40 degrees spreads 6"..
https://store.marinebeam.com/beam-angle-calculator-1/

After that we can work on how they work together..


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

I have a general idea of the beam angles, but little info on specific fixtures - I read through 29 pages here to find the beam angle for one brand. 
Beamswork I would have to add another few rows of red-green-blue LED's to get the color right, but the plants would grow OK.
Finnex 24/7 seems adequate, but I hate the pre-determined timer settings.
I cannot use a hanging/pendant style fixture which rules out a couple brands...
I am not in a position for DIY.
I have everything in place for this tank, except the LED fixture!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> I have a general idea of the beam angles, but little info on specific fixtures - I read through 29 pages here to find the beam angle for one brand.
> Beamswork I would have to add another few rows of red-green-blue LED's to get the color right, but the plants would grow OK.
> Finnex 24/7 seems adequate, but I hate the pre-determined timer settings.
> I cannot use a hanging/pendant style fixture which rules out a couple brands...
> ...


DSunY 120cm freshwater version.
Can be customized as to beam angle.. Well at least between 90 and 120 degrees (almost all are either of these 90 or 120)
Top mounted or hung..
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-dsuny.html


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Gardenho said:


> I have a general idea of the beam angles, but little info on specific fixtures - I read through 29 pages here to find the beam angle for one brand.
> Beamswork I would have to add another few rows of red-green-blue LED's to get the color right, but the plants would grow OK.
> Finnex 24/7 seems adequate, but I hate the pre-determined timer settings.
> I cannot use a hanging/pendant style fixture which rules out a couple brands...
> ...


Hi Gardenho,

Welcome to TPT!

Here is a comparison of the higher output LED fixtures that may help you decide.


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## Calestus (Oct 1, 2015)

Custom spectrum reefbreeders Photon fixture. Really pleased with mine.


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

And I thought this would be an easy decision 
Looking into DSunY - Looks a little bit like BML.
Calestus: Reef Breeders customized the Photon for freshwater use?
I like that you can get the controlled start-up of the lights with the additional module with the Fluval Fresh & Plant 2.0... Would a 90 gallon require 2 of these?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Gardenho said:


> I like that you can get the controlled start-up of the lights with the additional module with the Fluval Fresh & Plant 2.0... Would a 90 gallon require 2 of these?


Hi Gardenho,

It depends upon what plants you want to grow, if you used two lights and ran them at full output it is likely you would need CO2; good thing the output is adjustable from 100% to 10%.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> And I thought this would be an easy decision
> Looking into DSunY - Looks a little bit like BML.
> Calestus: Reef Breeders customized the Photon for freshwater use?
> I like that you can get the controlled start-up of the lights with the additional module with the Fluval Fresh & Plant 2.0... Would a 90 gallon require 2 of these?


Fluval is "technically" the most well built and balanced.
It's only drawback (for some) is it is only 2 channels.. So you have no color adjustments really..
Most really don't need it.
DSunY is "China direct" so a lot of negatives for many people. Like if a diode fails hey will send you one. You would need to de-solder and solder a new one in.


Reefbreeders went to a new high grade style.. They will customize BUT as of yet, I don't know anyone that did it..
did not know it but it looks like they still make the old style. Thought they discontinued it..
Best hung anyways..
Anyways an example:










Current planted plus pro is somewhat in the top 4.


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

DSunY sent this link: https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/Aquarium-Fish-Tank-LED-Blue-White_60519034307.html
Emailed back & said it would cover the bottom of the tank with enough power to grow the plants... Has a WIFI.
I am looking to grow medium to high light plants with injected CO2. Maybe not a carpet of baby's tears (how do you vacuum it???) but I did see a huge Madagascar lace that would be awesome as a centerpiece


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

Do you consider the DSunY one of the top? Your plants look amazing! Is that also a deeper tank? Unfortunately, I have no means of suspending a fixture. Not really my house, & I've done some damage already with water, being on the 2nd floor. Next time I will be on the ground level, where I can also hopefully get direct access into the plumbing 
The comparisons are really helpful!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> Do you consider the DSunY one of the top? Your plants look amazing! Is that also a deeper tank? Unfortunately, I have no means of suspending a fixture. Not really my house, & I've done some damage already with water, being on the 2nd floor. Next time I will be on the ground level, where I can also hopefully get direct access into the plumbing
> The comparisons are really helpful!


Opp's seems I forgot the link. That tank uses a custom spectrum reefbreeders.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/941866-60-gallon-starfire-dutch.html

Older style 2 channel DSuny.. They can be top mounted.. Would probably suggest having them switch optics if 120 isn't standard..

https://youtu.be/lkq9rr8NQtc
https://youtu.be/kHX1hosIgzE


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

Yes - 120 degrees is standard on this fixture. I think I may go with them (DSunY) as long as I can confirm the fixture can go on top of the glass or a couple inches above. Their mounting brackets shown in a video look like plexi that hangs on both sides of the tank... Which wouldn't work with the wood canopy. The reef builders is probably a bit over my spending limit... But the growth is really impressive. The colors of the light is also very good - Some seem very yellow.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> Yes - 120 degrees is standard on this fixture. I think I may go with them (DSunY) as long as I can confirm the fixture can go on top of the glass or a couple inches above. Their mounting brackets shown in a video look like plexi that hangs on both sides of the tank... Which wouldn't work with the wood canopy. The reef builders is probably a bit over my spending limit... But the growth is really impressive. The colors of the light is also very good - Some seem very yellow.


Their newer.. (there is a very new reef model) 4 channel is a bit on the cool side ..

SPECTRA

since the new 4 channel design I did do some tinkering w/ their spectrum..









Should be fairly low in yellow tone but a higher CRI value and decent shiftable K value... Nobodys built it but it does show possibilities.. 
does have a cyan/white "moonlight" though..









Bottom line is "I" am not thrilled w/ their standard layout though more than acceptable, and preferred color by some..
The modified one may be too "green" for some. The cyans have a high visual acuity to the human eye..

That starfire tank I linked to, the o/p thought the cyans were a bit overpowering in the reefbreeders..

But like I said.. orig is fine:
https://youtu.be/fafG8nZVohg

I see what you mean about the brackets though.. you need to check the hood and light sizes..


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

You have provided a lot of technical info for the Reefbreeders LED - Is this also posted somewhere in a comparison forum? I was aiming for them, but the cost was a bit high for me at this time. Impressive though.
DSunY emailed some pictures of tanks that had canopies like mine, with the fixtures were placed directly on top of the glass. Fingers crossed it will do what I want it to!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> You have provided a lot of technical info for the Reefbreeders LED - Is this also posted somewhere in a comparison forum? I was aiming for them, but the cost was a bit high for me at this time. Impressive though.
> DSunY emailed some pictures of tanks that had canopies like mine, with the fixtures were placed directly on top of the glass. Fingers crossed it will do what I want it to!


Yea, the diode density of Reefbreeders is hard to beat..What do you expect from a very Reef centric design..
Anyways not sure what you are looking for but this is an early thread about RB and DSunY a bit.. note the DSunY was the old style 2 channel design w/ the HUGE controller..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/672985-reef-breeders-photon-48-led.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...-led-spectrum-reefbreeders-photon-24-a-2.html

my photos were an early stage of an early build so please ignore.. 

The Reefbreeder driver limitations and the "only" 2 channel design is the only real drawback..oh and the price.


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

I ordered the DSunY - I hope to set everything up in a couple of weeks. Do you think it would be helpful to post feedback on this fixture, ie plant growth, durability, etc. in the forums for other people to reference? Do you think anyone would be interested?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> I ordered the DSunY - I hope to set everything up in a couple of weeks. Do you think it would be helpful to post feedback on this fixture, ie plant growth, durability, etc. in the forums for other people to reference? Do you think anyone would be interested?


Please do.. More data points better data..


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Gardenho said:


> I ordered the DSunY - I hope to set everything up in a couple of weeks. Do you think it would be helpful to post feedback on this fixture, ie plant growth, durability, etc. in the forums for other people to reference? Do you think anyone would be interested?


I'd be interested in PAR and how hot the LED gets


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> I'd be interested in PAR and how hot the LED gets


diodes are run at 2W or less (550mA)
They have PAR charts though I wouldn't mind a more independent source.
Dsuny has a tendency to "borrow" images..
This seems a bit optimistic in my book..


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## Gardenho (Sep 28, 2012)

I don't have access to a PAR meter... But I will share everything I can on the fixture once it is up & running.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gardenho said:


> I don't have access to a PAR meter... But I will share everything I can on the fixture once it is up & running.


Using a LUX app on a cell phone can get a "ballpark" estimate of PAR..
Obviously not in the filled tank of course.. 

Conversion - PPF to Lux

They don't have an LED conversion multiplier.. using 0.014 or 0.015 would do..
some use 0.022............
Aquarium Equipment: PAR Meters and LEDs - How Accurate are the Measurements? A Comparison of Three Meters and Lux to PAR Conversion Factors for LEDs ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/776946-lux-par-conversion-7300k-led.html

I have a hard time imagining LED's are more "efficient" at PAR than sunlight ..which according to Apogee would be a multiplier of 0.0185..........
Need to think about that a bit..











What LUX measures..


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