# ADA 60P Fun (2007)



## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

So here are a few introductory shots of my new ADA tank. It isn't fully planted yet, since the water is just becoming clear. Any suggestions are appreciated and please excuse the tubing in the tank. I have some glass lily pipes on order...I had HC but it all died, well apparently not all of it since I have a few strands thriving here and there...apart from that one change, what other planting suggestions do you have? I was thinking about some blyxa in front of the rotala sp. green and rotala indica...any ideas?? I have to admit this is the first time using Aquasoil but it is awesome. I can literally grow anything in it...and look at the growth that I have with the giant hair grass! Before I had this plant in another tank and after about 3 weeks it just turned brown and died!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Here are a few more*

I think you might like these as well...its always so exciting to see the beginning of a tank take shape and then months later look back and see the progress one has made...please forgive my photography, my skills aren't that good so please bear with me...hopefully in the near future I will get a decent digital camera (this one is only 5MP)!


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

How quickly does that dwarf hairgrass grow? 

Great start!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

epicfish said:


> How quickly does that dwarf hairgrass grow?
> 
> Great start!


Well I'll tell you it it growing so fast that I might actually have to start trimming the roots. Every day I see new shoots coming out of the substrate. It is really awesome but that just goes to show you what extra light and Aquasoil can do for you. Before I used Fluorite, I'll never go back to that again!


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

I would try to get that piece of wood out of the direct center of the tank. The rule of thirds will help you here. The wood is quite stout and demands the eye It took me two or three views to see anything but the wood. Try moving it to the left or right and place it at the 2/3rds mark.

Also, it looks like your anubias rhizomes are burried? You will have to get them out of the substrate or they may rot. Try attaching them to small pebbles, that will keep them in place whiles still above the substrate.

Hope this helps

jB


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*uh huh*



Jason Baliban said:


> I would try to get that piece of wood out of the direct center of the tank. The rule of thirds will help you here. The wood is quite stout and demands the eye It took me two or three views to see anything but the wood. Try moving it to the left or right and place it at the 2/3rds mark.
> 
> Also, it looks like your anubias rhizomes are burried? You will have to get them out of the substrate or they may rot. Try attaching them to small pebbles, that will keep them in place whiles still above the substrate.
> 
> ...


Jason,
Thanks for the suggestions! I'm thinking of moving it towards the left. The anubias actually are tied to the bottom of the driftwood that has a hollow center in it but at this point the roots actually are growing through the hole and are now into the substrate...any ideas about how to hide this CO2 diffusor? Do you think the rotalia will eventually hid it? Check out the algae pearling...


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

Looks like you could have gone with a smaller diffuser for that tank. I really wouldnt try to hide it. Its important to allow the flow of the filters to grab the bubbles and move them around the tank. If the rotala is hiding the diffuser from us, it is surely hiding it from the flow as well

I see what you are saying with the anubias. I wasnt sure, so i just thought i would throw out the tip.....but it looks like you already knewroud: 

Hope move the wood creates a nice perspective for you

jB


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*A quandry*



Jason Baliban said:


> Looks like you could have gone with a smaller diffuser for that tank. I really wouldnt try to hide it. Its important to allow the flow of the filters to grab the bubbles and move them around the tank. If the rotala is hiding the diffuser from us, it is surely hiding it from the flow as well
> 
> I see what you are saying with the anubias. I wasnt sure, so i just thought i would throw out the tip.....but it looks like you already knewroud:
> 
> ...


I had thought about buying the smaller size diffusor but I wanted to be able to upgrade at a later date. So far I have removed the tubing and I'm currently using the Ehiem in/outflow devices while waiting on my glass lilly tubes. I've moved the rotala completely so that it is all together and it grows great...with each trim I'm replanting and now I've got a serious bush growing on one side and the hairgrass is exceeding all my expectations. I thought I might have to buy another two pots but give the growth of this plant, I think in a month the entire back wall of my tank will be covered by it. I'm thinking of totally removing the driftwood or getting a smaller piece, possibly replacing with some ADA rock. Mabye some Riccia as well...today I bought 10 Ottocinclus and 10 rasboras. I'm thinking of getting a few black neons too but I'm not sure...anyway, the plants are growing really well although I'm having some brown diatom algea issues, but nothing else is out of control. What experience have you had with anubias? Mine are shaded but they seem to be suffering from chlorosis and developing yellowing at the edges of the leaves. I suspect it is an iron deficiency given my parameters:

Ammonia 0ppm
KH 120ppm
GH 300ppm
Nitrates 0ppm
Nitrites 20ppm
Ph 6.2

I EI dose N once weekly, P x2 weekly and K x2 weekly with x2 Excel and once micros (Flourish). Any ideas? All the other stem plants are growing ridiculously and I'm having some slight algae on them but not like on the anubias...any suggestions? Everything else is healthy and my HC has finally started to spread out! YEAH!!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*A quick update*

So here are a few updated pics...as you can see I have gotten rid of my plastic tubing only to use the Eheim intake and out-take tubing...unfortunately my custom glass lily pipes are still being manufactured. I hope to have them by the 1st! Of course with the removal of the driftwood I now am going to add some stone and plant the anubias nana petite and a. coffefolia around it...my experience with HC didn't go well since my past post and became infected with hair algae so I will soon start with glosso...





You'll note that despite my best efforts the anubias nana doesn't seem to want to turn any deeper shade of green, despite my cautious dosing of Fe. Nevertheless, it still it producing many smaller baby leaves on the rhizome...go figure...and here you see my success with the hairgrass that is spreading out roots across the tank and grows well above the height of the rim...I've also started to trim my rotalia sp. when it reaches the surface of the tank and replant it (it seems to turn red whenever it reaches this height due to light intensity)





Dane, I bet you are shocked at the forest of Rotalia sp. that I have growing here, in no small part to your help, thanks! It really has taken off and I'm quite proud of it! I think that if I had some more light intensity, much more of it would be red than what I can currently achieve with my present level of lighting...





If you have any suggestions or comments, please don't hesitate...I'm looking forward to starting my glosso soon!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

when i first gazed at the rotala, i thought to myself, "wow, that rotala is mighty thick. i wish mine would keep large leaves like that." then i scroll down and read, "Dane, I bet you are shocked at the forest of Rotalia sp..." HAHA! it's sad when people can read your mind. the tank looks great mike. i have more rotala if you want it.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> when i first gazed at the rotala, i thought to myself, "wow, that rotala is mighty thick. i wish mine would keep large leaves like that." then i scroll down and read, "Dane, I bet you are shocked at the forest of Rotalia sp..." HAHA! it's sad when people can read your mind. the tank looks great mike. i have more rotala if you want it.


Good God, no. I have to trim it twice a week as it is, which explains why it is so thick! Now if only I could start on the Glosso we'll see how that goes...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

the glosso hasn't been doing so bad for me chief. not sure how much you are looking to get started with, but i would maybe send you 2-3 little stalks. HAHA!


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Will you be keeping the AS slope or smoothing it out? I'm not feeling the rolling hill thing. Will there be any hardscape? I know you are putting in glosso but will there be any other plants?

BTW, that Eleocharis is going to be sweet when it grows in.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

mrbelvedere said:


> Will you be keeping the AS slope or smoothing it out? I'm not feeling the rolling hill thing. Will there be any hardscape? I know you are putting in glosso but will there be any other plants?
> 
> BTW, that Eleocharis is going to be sweet when it grows in.


I know that Eleocharis is a PITA, because sometimes it grows like crazy and then sometimes it wants to die off , believe it or not I think it actually would do better with higher light but I've already got 130W over this 20G, I mean really! I think I'm going to keep the rolling hill look. I think it might grow on you after I have the glosso covering it. I am going to get rid of the anubias that I have (except the a.coffefolia and the a. nana petites) and replant them around some "Menton stone" that Amano likes to use...


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

I don't think more light is the way to go, lol. 

Why do you think the Eleocharis is dying off? Perhaps it's still adjusting?

It would look better with glosso, or even better, Elatine.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well Mr. Belvedere I have planted some ****ty looking gloss right now and I have to tell you it is growing up and I'm pissed about it but we'll see what happens. I think the Eleocharis is dying of because it seems to want to grow new leaves but the old leaves tend to wither. Weird I know...but I was thinking the same thing as you were, maybe it is just adjusting but I wonder how much of a factor would water hardness contribute to this issue? Our water in Tampa is like liquid rock...my testing shows something ridiculous like 300ppm (which is as high as the this test goes) so I was thinking of trying a new ADA resin which softens the water. Any suggestions?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

So here are few more pics of my tank. As you can see I'm having some serious problems with it growing up too high. Not to mention the thread algae that seems to be starting to get a hold. I'm powerfully tempted to just trim and wait it out. If anyone has any suggestions about getting it to grow lower, let me know! I can't believe that 5wpg isn't enough light, but apparently it isn't. My ottos certainly seem to love how this tank is progressing and keep it pretty much spotless...














































next week I'm going to add some more hairgrass to the back and a few rocks to the left by the Rotala (yes, I know it needs a trim) If I can't get this glosso together I'm going back to HC (even though it takes forever to grow). I'm also adding a few cherry and Amano shrimp to try and tackle this thread algae I've been fighting...at least it looks nice from the top!


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

Nice! I really like it!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

jebarj90 said:


> Nice! I really like it!


Well I'm glad at least someone does...can you believe someone gave me two stars for my thread...is it really *that* bad!? lol...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

So here are a few recent pics in the post Glosso massacre. I have replanted with HC and it has really taken off. I love Aquasoil. I hardly have to dose anything at all. As you can see in the middle there is a depression. I had removed the driftwood and I'm waiting on my stone to take up that position for a hardscape. I also have some Riccia and large A. Coffefolia on the way with some more Giant Hairgrass to fill in the right hand back side of the tank. I also recently got in my glass lily tubes and I love them!





















Well I hope that you liked these pics. As you can see it really has taken off and its been planted only for about two weeks. There are some spots that have to fill in but it seems like every day it gets greener and more lush! It does love Excel and CO2 that is for sure! Please excuse my poor photography skills, believe me I'm still working on it. This is an old camera but when I get a new one I'll be sure to post much better pics! As always, any comments, questions or suggestions that anyone might have is appreciated!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

it looks great mike! i'm currently re-doing my aquascape as we speak. i have plants coming in tomorrow along with some HC for myself. i also have 2 liters of excel coming in this week. i'm planning to quench the thirst of excel that the HC will have. you'll have to check out my album soon too. i should post photos within the next few days. your tank looks super! after tearing down my tank, i found 7 otos! i thought i only had 4. how exciting! we both have those rasbora!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

when you say you hardly dose anything, what do you mean? what is your dosing quantity and schedule like?


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## MARIMOBALL (Mar 18, 2007)

The top view pic is my fav. Glosso was'nt that bad maybe if you had givin it time to spread and grow dense then it slowly becomes more lower to the soil and more compact.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> when you say you hardly dose anything, what do you mean? what is your dosing quantity and schedule like?


3 squirts Brighty K, daily
2 squirts Green Brighty -Special Lights, daily
2xExcel, daily

24drops ECA 1xweek

That's it! It is too easy and of course the results with the HC speak for themselves!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Fyi*

So here is a quick update. As you can see my HC has really lost its mind. I am attempting to grow this riccia, and while it does throw off O2 like crazy, I'm not sure if it will be a permanent addition to this tank or not. Also you will see some of the new stone that I've added and the Giant Hairgrass has now completely covered the back wall. Sorry about the terrible photo quality, but I just ordered a brand new Digital camera, so stay posted for some awesome pics!


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

if oyu size your images down just a bit, they may look sharper.
I can't see the whole tank on my 17" widescreen, so the pics are pretty big.

The tank looks nice, the Hc too.
how are you liking the giant hairgrass? does it grow fast?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Thanks! The HC really just sat there for a week and then all of a sudden just started to take off like wild. Not is is really trying to cover every available grain of substrate. I'm in love! The Giant hairgrass is both wonderful and irritating. I love the look and it is thin and rigid for a background. However, it has the most irritatingly annoying habit for individual strands to just die. It spreads by runners which will show up in the most unlikely of places. But it doesn't grow fast at all. The only reason the other side of the tank eventually filled in was b/c I bought some more. It will spread if you break it up into smaller pieces but even that growth takes quite a while.

MARIMOBALL,

I am a contradiction in terms. I am one of the most patient people out there; my ability to wait for HC to grow is legendary, and I also am the most impatient people out there on certain other things (like computer parts, books, etc. to arrive). I gave the Glosso a good chance and it was actually quite green and healthy. If I hadn't decided to toss it out I would have left it alone but it simply was too high for my purposes. It is quite wierd, then, that HC (which has leaves with much less surface area for photosynthesis) can grow so well and compact but the glosso could not?


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

cool, thanks.

Yea, my Hc sat for about 3 months, it'staken off now, but i have inert sand, i think the aquasoil had something to do with that awesomeness.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Great start on a tank! Good job!

Now my 2 cents...

Keep the HC, lose the riccia. I'm a riccia bigot - why would you you want that messy tank consuming blight when you are clearly a massive HC farmer? Go for the HC.

And watch that thread algae on the giant hairgrass. A word to the wise...


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

Very nice man. I agree with scolley though, riccia looks nice but man its sucks when you want to get rid of it. haha


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Thanks everybody! I appreciate the comments. Now maybe I can get more than 3 stars on my thread, lol! I think I'm going to be giving away the Riccia when it gets itself together and then let the HC spread through the rest of the tank. The Aquasoil definitely has something to do with it spreading; I don't have to dose hardly anything at all for the HC to grow (except Excel). Scolley, coming from you, I am very honored to have your compliments! I've been following your encyclopedic threads for many years now! 

Last but not least, Ian, without your help none of my successes so far could have occurred. Thanks!


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## Mr.ThomasWalls (Feb 11, 2007)

Nice looking tank!!! Is that where the cherries are going? If so I will send you some Bonsai cuttings for the shrimp to hold on to as your bonus.. I think it would look awsome where the ricca is now.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Mr.ThomasWalls said:


> Nice looking tank!!! Is that where the cherries are going? If so I will send you some Bonsai cuttings for the shrimp to hold on to as your bonus.. I think it would look awsome where the ricca is now.


This is it! lol...and they've got plenty of room to roam and keep things clean, ha ha ha. Yeah that Riccia is going to go but I don't want to get rid of it until it is really in perfect condition.


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## Mr.ThomasWalls (Feb 11, 2007)

Good to hear they will get a GREAT home!! I Think you will be ripping that ricca out when you see your bonsai cuttings when you get them.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*So here is quick update!*

Just in case anyone wanted to check the tank's progress...today is H2O change day so, please excuse the bubbles...hope you like and sorry for the poor picture quality...when oh when will I have the $$ for a real camera!?!?!























































I hope that you enjoyed these pics. As you can see my HC has really done well. I've increase the left hand side corner with more substrate and created a hill and my Alternathera reinekii v. "Rosaefolia" has really taken off! I have switched to using all ADA liquid ferts and the ECA really has made this plant beautiful. I've also included some rock and shrimp.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

what in the hell did you do with all your rotundfolia?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Trashed it! It started growing so fast that I literally had to trim it every other day and I got tired of that really quickly. I'm going to post some really awesome pics when I get my new digital camera and then take it down. Maybe try something a little different? I'm still thinking about it...we'll see!


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## if_fishes_were_wishes (Jul 29, 2007)

I want my HC to grow JUST like that. Wow I need some pressurized CO2 stat.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

It definitely helps believe me. I just put some on sale and the spots where I removed it are already completely covered again! Its hard to believe but its true!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well I have decided to take this tank down and redo this one...I'll be posting a journal for everyone to see so I hope that you will follow along. Recently a friend and former roommate had many problems with his tank and everything seemed to die in it whenever he introduced new fish to it, so out of the goodness of my heart I volunteered (however unwillingly) to permit his fish to stay in mine as a temporary home. Little did I realize that the Ammonia levels would skyrocket in just a few hours and then result in killing not only all my own fish but also my shrimp and some of my plants (that are only now starting to to show signs of possible recovery). I won't make the same mistake again needless to say, but that has spurred my interested in redoing this tank.

I hope everyone will follow with me and see how my next creation develops! Thanks again for all of your positive and constructive criticism, comments, suggestions and advice! Without all of the feedback I certainly would be bereft of those much more experienced minds that are out there than my own limited knowledge. Hope you all hang in there with me. I plan to fully document my next one throughly with many more photos and in more detail that what I have done with this one. What can I say, you live and learn and if there is one thing that I have found with this hobby it is constantly a learning experience. I will of course still be using the same exact equipment that I have for this tank on the new on, but I'm thinking on changing the layout, plant selection and rock-work. 

Since my last post I thought I would share with everyone (i.e. you danepatrick) a few posts of what contributed to my decision:





































I'll try and keep you posted! L8tr!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*ADA 60P Journal (56K!!) Updated 10-05-07*

Hello everyone!

ok, so I have finally decided after much thought to redo my planted tank. I'm seriously considering using some sand in the foreground, thus I bought some through Steven @ Aquaforest Aquarium in SF, CA. He's very knowledgeable and a great person (Thanks Steven)!! As you can see I'm thinking of using some lava rock as well for a hard scape but I'm leaning towards a variation on the Iwugami style. I'm also using all ADA products and this will be my first time with the new "Type II" Amazonia Aquasoil which purportedly has less of a troublesome history with Ammonia spikes at the beginning. I'm skeptical but we'll see what happens!

Initially I'm thinking of having Hemianthus callitrichoides, Anubias Coffefolia, Anubias Nana Petite, and Eleocharis montevidensis (Giant Hairgrass). I still have some of the Giant Hairgrass from my old tank. The glass lily tubes I had made privately and are very good quality and I've had them for quite a while now. The only non ADA product that I use are Seachem's Prime, Excel and of course the vitally necessary Purigen. Beneath the tank's stand you will also see the equipment listed in my signature. The holes are for the in and out tubing and electrical wiring...

Regarding other plants, fish or inverts I'm still undecided so everything else will be up for grabs...and as always suggestions, criticisms, complaints and opinions are always welcome! 


By mjohnso9









By mjohnso9


By mjohnso9


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## sNApple (Nov 6, 2005)

lava rock ewww dont do it


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

LIke what Left C said.

Fossilized DUNG

Since so much people hate Lava rocks.. IM going to Scape a 2.5 gallon with Lava rocks.. and Prove it looks awesome


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Styxx1 nice collection of products and equipment. I also have a 60p tank I purchased from Jeff Senske and I also have ordered some things from Steven as well. Both Steven and George Lo are great guys, very informative and extremely helpful as is Jeff and his crew at Aqua Design Group.

I can’t wait until you get it up and running. Seeing another 60p going up always gives me new ideas :smile:. I’m also using lava rocks but as a filler so it won’t be seen however your lava rock may very well be covered by your plants depending how you scape it.

The lava rock is a nice rock for the bacteria to grow on (cling to) however just out of curiosity is it inert?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well I guess the consensus is that I shouldn't use it! lol. Of course I believe that my decision will depend on what is available locally...you can see in my 3rd pic that I have some ADA rock already (by the fish food) but I need some more! Anyway I'll post some more photos soon...I'm really excited b/c this will be my 1st time using this new Aquasoil....

Dantra,

I believe it is inert. But as so many people (both on this thread and in PMs) have suggested not to use it, I might try some other rock locally available and see what people think. I hope that you enjoy the thread. I'm waiting on a UV filter to go between the outflow and the Eheim which I plan to mount horizontally on the back wall of the stand like the power outlet. I'll try and post some more pics on Monday when I hope to have everything set up...next step, the plants!!


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## unix2k (Jun 24, 2007)

Lava Rock anyone?

















Hmmmm just imagine that whole rock structure covered with HCs...


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## Saraja87 (Jul 18, 2007)

I've used lava rocks in my aquariums for six years. I love the way they look mixed with my driftwood and like dantra said bacteria does grow on them making it a lovely tool for stabilizing the ecosystem. I think it really helps when you unbalance it and shortens the cycle process like any other live rock. Plants grow on them very well, and they look really awesome coming out of a field of anubias . My catfish love them too, each one has claimed a piece and they love to zoom around and under them.


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## Tdon1md (Jun 3, 2007)

Oh yeah, forgot why I originally wanted to post a reply....... lol. What's the 56K warning of your post?
________
AtinaAquitane live


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## Haeun (Mar 9, 2007)

Usually 56k warnings are for picture intensive threads.


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## FelixAvery (Jan 11, 2007)

i know a 28k could load that many pics lol
lava rock = meh


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Continuing with the work*

ok so here is where I am so far with my setup. As for those of you with concerns about the "photo intensive" issue I've happily changed the title of this thread to reflect this issue. However, I fully anticipate (thus my inspiration) that this thread will contain numerous photos in the future...anyway, I have removed the Lava rock and begun to use ADA Menton Stone and will add some more once the rest of the shipment arrives. As you can see I have left the foreground empty because I'm waiting to hear the word on my HC order. If that doesn't come through I'm going with sand, but if it does then I'm going to fill the rest of the front in with AS.


Here is a pic of the overall tank. You'll note the black mat under the tank. I added this to my order but I didn't realize, until it arrived, what good quality stuff this is. This isn't your flimsy type of insulation, but rather serious quality thickness and flexible matting. I was pleasantly surprised when I finally held it in my hands. Please excuse the dirt on the wall, I didn't have time to clean everything up completely (I had class)! I also bought a visual Ammonia indicator to track the performance of the new "type II" AS.










A closer look...










The stone I'm using...I really like the colors that this has and I'm glad that I decided to change to this kind...much more character and color variations...










In this pic I'm just experimenting with the "macro" feature on my camera...I can't wait to get this planted and some shrimp in here so I can really put this bad boy to use!


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## tcy81 (Sep 11, 2004)

nice rock , but are you going to use only 1 ?


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## zackish (Jun 12, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> LIke what Left C said.
> 
> Fossilized DUNG
> 
> Since so much people hate Lava rocks.. IM going to Scape a 2.5 gallon with Lava rocks.. and Prove it looks awesome


It looks good if the whole tank is scaped with that. But when you have a planted tank with nice plants and driftwood and then you throw some lava rock in there is when it looks bad.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

now that rock is MUCH better Mike! thanks for commenting on MY new picture! :icon_roll


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Thanks everyone, for the comments! I'm waiting on another shipment and as so as it arrives I'll be posting the pics. I'm anxious to get this tank filled and start the process of cycling this AS! And as for you Dane, don't worry...you know I always got some comments about everything...ha ha ha ha!!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Ok, so here we are...I have decided to try some different stone (pagoda stone) because I like the contrast against the aquasoil. You'll note that I got my hot little hands on some Biospira to cycle the tank. I hope this helps resolve the Ammonia leaching that happens with the AS...Here are a few pics of my progress so far:

































































By mjohnso9


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## sNApple (Nov 6, 2005)

bigggger rocks


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

man oh man. where have i been? i'm glad you updated. i like the pagoda stone! as Snapple said, i think you should maybe get at least 1 larger rock. i wouldn't do any more than 2 rocks total. i'm going with a smooth stone theme myself.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Your supposed to add a fish load w/bio-spira


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## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

mott said:


> Your supposed to add a fish load w/bio-spira


What he said :thumbsup: Also i think you need larger rocks


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yep, you need a fish load to feed the bio spira, hopefully the AS will give it some ammonia until you can get fish in it, or else it is going to starve off and not do it's job. I'd get some fish asap.


For future reference, I always like to put some in the filter too.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well thanks everyone for your comments! As for the layout, I'm waiting for my LFS to restock their stone supply but when it comes in believe me I'm going to add 1 more, probably a large size to the middle. And regarding the BioSpira, the Aquasoil has more than enough Ammonia but I'm adding some fish soon. Probably a ton of rasboras and a few ottocinclus; of course I'm waiting on my plant order which won't arrive until next Friday. And of course I will certainly post pics when I start planting. So far my Ammonia levels are elevated but not at the "toxic" level and I think the BioSpira is working well. Of course I also have no small amount of Purigen in my filter as well so that is helping!

Yes, Dane where have you been!?! Here we go again my friend!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

styxx1 said:


> I also have no small amount of Purigen in my filter as well so that is helping!


Yikes! You're treading close to starving your bio spira that way, just make sure ammonia doesn't drop below 1ppm before you get fish in it. I know that stuff is expensive and it's a real drag when it doesn't work (been there a few times). You'd be safer without the purigen, but I guess that depends on which is more important to you, keeping algae at bay or getting your money's worth out of the BS.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

jaidexl said:


> Yikes! You're treading close to starving your bio spira that way, just make sure ammonia doesn't drop below 1ppm before you get fish in it. I know that stuff is expensive and it's a real drag when it doesn't work (been there a few times). You'd be safer without the purigen, but I guess that depends on which is more important to you, keeping algae at bay or getting your money's worth out of the BS.


Oh don't worry, I get it for next to nothing...it helps knowing people in the right places...the only limitation is how frequently they have it in stock, which *can* be difficult b/c of its popularity.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Lucky you, I have no local spots, so next day shipping for enough to overdose a 30gl is over $60 for me. I'm back to seeding filters on older tanks to get a quick cycle now.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*So far, so good...*

Just a quick update...I decided to snap one more pic tonight. The water has really cleared up since yesterday and still the Ammonia readings are @ zero! It very near has that "fish floating in air" clarity to it now which is awesome. Please excuse the bubbles. I had the outflow tube a little too high at the time which was the cause of that little problem. Check it out:





So my next step is to obtain another large rock to complete the hard-scape and then start planting the HC, Hairgrass and other plants. I'm thinking to duplicate some of my last tank's layout with HC throughout and Giant hairgrass in the back...but I'm also thinking about a lot of Anubias Nana Petite and Coffefolia and Rotala...but we'll see!


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## trfjason (Aug 10, 2006)

Your equipments are really nice! What about adding Pogostemon helferi? It will be a great addition to HC and hairgrass.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

trfjason said:


> Your equipments are really nice! What about adding Pogostemon helferi? It will be a great addition to HC and hairgrass.


That would be great, but I haven't any idea where to get some...they are very interesting plants too. I love how they look and would be interested in trying to get them to grow...


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

pardon my newbness, but what is hc?

i read so much about it and can see photos of it but i can really get an appropriate name for it so i can research it xD
and i think your tank is very nice:thumbsup: 
wish i could do something like that but i dont have enough money for aquasoil etc. Just play sand for me

thanks ._.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

CobraGuppy said:


> pardon my newbness, but what is hc?
> 
> i read so much about it and can see photos of it but i can really get an appropriate name for it so i can research it xD
> and i think your tank is very nice:thumbsup:
> ...


HC means "Hemianthus Callitrichoides" and its a famous foreground plant. 
Here are a few pictures, care of Oliver Knott, the Tropica GOD as well as one of my own when this tank was last set up (please excuse the poor quality I didn't have this awesome camera at the time)...


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## territhemayor (Aug 12, 2007)

whats in your filter? I've only got carbon in my filter now, and its bothering me. I've bought some ADA bio rio but im not sure how much to put it and other stuff. what to do? my water is still cloudy from the aquasoil,
I have the es 600 by ada.


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Hey, looks nice so far. Just curious, which store do you use? I'm near Tampa, too.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Just a brief note...I have placed an order for some plants. I'm getting some Giant Hair Grass and so Rotundafolia sp. Green, and some HC. I'm trying to find some Downoi but haven't had much success...I may substitute some Anubias Nana Petites for them but I haven't decided yet on that...any suggestions of course would be encouraged and considered! Thanks for reading! 

territhemayor - I use the "efisubstrate pro" and "efimech" along with x2 white filter pads, 1 blue filter pad, 2 small bags of Purigen in my filter. I can't remember the exact quantity of each of the eheim media but its enough to fill each basket up, almost to the top with just enough room for the filter pads. If you water is still cloudy (white) then that's the filter bacteria floating in your water column just give it time and it will eventually colonize the media. You're almost done! Usually by that point in the process, the Aquasoil has almost completely finished leaching Ammonia. Give it another week and you should be good to go. Of course you can continue to change the H20 weekly by 50%...at least that was what I did...

forddna- I use Marine Wharehouse on 8021 W Hillsborough Ave, Tampa. They've got a lot of great stuff...they even have Biospira! I think you will really like their selection of both fresh and saltwater fish. Their equipment/product selection isn't that extensive but they are THE place to go for saltwater fish and live rock/coral/inverts. They also have a small freshwater plant selection that they get in on a weekly basis. A pretty good LFS compared to some others that I have dealt with before...


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

There's Downoi for sale in swap n shop.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/52648-downois-sale.html


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

forddna said:


> There's Downoi for sale in swap n shop.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/52648-downois-sale.html


Awesome! I just PM'd them for some so hopefully I'll have some downoi soon! Thanks forddna!!


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

No problem.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*A quick update*

ok folks. Today's order for giant hairgrass (Elocharis montevidensis) arrived in excellent, pristine condition. I've added it to the back wall of the tank and hope that it covers the back and Monday I should have the Downoi (Pogostemon helferi) and the HC!! I've also started dosing and added my CO2 diffuser to the tank to help with the algae that is starting to grow on the aquasoil on the right hand side of the tank. Unfortunately the rotala sp. green that I initially requested was on back-order so that will have to wait. Hmmm...what else? Oh yeah and I'm waiting on some cherry red shrimp to add to my little world. So I'll post more pics when they arrive, hopefully this weekend. Thanks for looking!


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## puchisapo (Sep 10, 2007)

is that "giant hairgrass", _Eleocharis montevidensis_?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Here we go..*



puchisapo said:


> is that "giant hairgrass", _Eleocharis montevidensis_?


Yes, that's it!

So here is a quick update, not much to report but I thought that I should mention both the "bad" and the "good" to reflect the actual events I've experienced. Today I received some Downoi and they looked awesome...Vibrant green color, free of algae with a well developed root system. However, I have been fighting some green algae on my substrate since my plant load is rather low but my lighting is outrageous, so that has been very challenging. Fortunately I just ordered 20 red cherry shrimp and may order another 20 to deal with the problem while I'm waiting for my HC and Rotalia order to arrive, along with my last rock. Here are the pics and please excuse the cloudiness in the water I just finished planting and it cause a slight haze...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

So today I have been very busy! I have added about 10 Otocinclus Catfish and not a single one has died (which I'm very surprised about) and they have been hard at work eating up the algae that has proliferated in my tank. Unfortunately they were severely underfeed so I'm working on improving their diet and getting them healthy again with some additional Zucchini. The downside is my water has clouded up significantly with a bacterial cloud and my water is a milky white mess for the moment so please excuse the clarity of the photos. I also have painstakingly planted 2 pots of HC in my tank. You will also find another pot of HC floating for a friend which eventually will be removed (so please excuse my mess). All that's left is to buy some Rasboras and pick up my other rock for the hardscape and I think I might be "finished"...I have been battling algae on both the rocks and the substrate and plants but that should soon fix itself when I finish planting my Rotalia and with the growth of the Downoi and HC...thanks for looking and I hope you enjoy. Oh and I almost forgot, I have a shipment of red cherry shrimp coming in soon so hopefully they will get everything that isn't cleaned up by my Oto crew. Now the hardest part of the hobby for me...sit back and wait! lol...


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

OMG! The rocks are pearling!!! :hihi:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

zergling said:


> OMG! The rocks are pearling!!! :hihi:


ha ha ha...yeah I know that algae is ridiculous...you should see what it looks like after a week. They were completely covered in a green carpet. And you're seeing them after I've brushed them yesterday!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

some snails there would clean the rocks from algae. i put some clithons over my big rock and in one day it's clean as new. nice daonois, hard to find here and expensive too. do they form runners later?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*update*



ikuzo said:


> some snails there would clean the rocks from algae. i put some clithons over my big rock and in one day it's clean as new. nice daonois, hard to find here and expensive too. do they form runners later?


Ikuzo:
Well I'm adding some red cherry shrimp which typically have done an excellent job on the algae in the past. The Downois are really nice and i have great expectations of them, and I'm not sure how they propagate. I know they do have very long white roots but if they are runners I have no idea?

Everyone:
So my water has finally cleared up very nicely and not a single loss so far which is a great sign. I continue to fight the algae on what seems to be a daily basis but so far so good. Here are a few more pics. The HC is already pearling despite the little algae that it seems to have. I will be very happy when the shrimp get here! And yes that is Zucchini in the background, please excuse my mess.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

i took a look at a plant store yesterday which sells some downoi, yes they send out short runners. I have the same algae on my HC. how do you get rid of them? cherries / amanos won't eat them. it's dark green, covering the leaves and the HC will eventually die.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*hmmm*



ikuzo said:


> i took a look at a plant store yesterday which sells some downoi, yes they send out short runners. I have the same algae on my HC. how do you get rid of them? cherries / amanos won't eat them. it's dark green, covering the leaves and the HC will eventually die.


I don't know...all of the cherry shrimp and Amanos that I have ever had typically have kept my plants spotless and free of algae...have you tried "spot treating" with Excel? That might help?


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm loving my Otos and UV Sterilizer for algae..


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

no one sells excel products in my city. i tried H2O2 but the HC is melted too...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

ikuzo said:


> no one sells excel products in my city. i tried H2O2 but the HC is melted too...


Hmmm...tough situation. I only just realized that your in Indonesia! I wish I could offer you some advice but there are limited options given your location. Of course you might buy it off the internet but then it probably would be very expensive due to shipping costs.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

i know some of the big shop owners and ask them to order excel but they haven't got the stuff yet. in the mean time i guess i'll just leave my HC the way it is.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

ok mike, what's the deal with this thing?


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Lets get some updates!!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*here we go again...*

Well much like many of you, I'm reluctant to post less than stellar photos of my tank. However, I have made a new addition to my tank's inhabitants (which up to now have only been a few otos)...so check out my new Amano shrimp! I hope you like them. I am REALLY surprised at how voracious algae eaters they really are! I've added 3 and didn't think that they'd do much, but was I ever wrong. The have completed cleaned my HC on the entire left hand side of the tank in one day. I think I might have to go and get another three! I also was very surprised at their size (quite large, perhaps they're adults?) I actually had some cherry shrimp in there too but they all died off during an ammonia/nitrite/nitrate spike about a week ago (along with my $20!, hahahaha) and I wasn't happy about that, but amazingly I haven't lost a single ottocinclus; go figure?



















As far as the tank, I'm battling a variety of algae as well as GW right now. I've added some Bacopa and I'm waiting on some Rotalia to deal with the excess nutrients that seems to be causing this problem. Hopefully a blackout will improve things. I've already attempted using Seachem's Clarify to no avail and since algaecides are out I'm going to try and invest in a TurboTwist UV filter next week. If THAT doesn't do anything then I'm afraid I might have to resort to drastic measures, like pulling my hair out. 

My H20 parameters are quite good:

0ppm Ammonia/Ammonium
0ppm Nitrite
0ppm Nitrate
0ppm Chlorine/Chloramines

Give me a week and I'll trying and post some pics; but if you really want to see my agony I'll be happy to display it for all the world to see...lol...


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Don't worry, everyone experiences algae battles!

BTW, Amano's are great... The best cleaner shrimp IMHO... They can get pretty big too, I have about 10 of em, I practically don't need a filter, lol jk :tongue: 

Nice Macro shots btw!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

and what in the heck happened to a full tank shot? c'mon wuss!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

wow nice HC growth... adult amanos can go more than 2 inches.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Cool shrimp 

What was your temp and pH/KH during the spikes? Your otos could have been saved by that, in acidic water, ionized ammonia(NH4+) is produced which is much less toxic than un-ionized ammonia(NH3). Higher carbonate hardness and temps can convert (NH4+) into (NH3) by way of hydrogen and hydroxide ions having a little party. That said, nitrite's friend, nitrous acid, is said to be much more toxic at lower pH below 7. This is all info I read at various places online, so I don't know enough to go in depth on it.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> and what in the heck happened to a full tank shot? c'mon wuss!


kiss my ass. You'll get a good pic when I've got this under control!:icon_eek:


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

haha. boy, most people don't know we're friends in real life. they might ban us both! :icon_eek:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*oh good grief!!*

Dane: hahahaha...well if they can't see that from the almost exclusive colloquy we've had online they I doubt they'll have any illusions about it now! lol...

Ikuzo: I'm getting good growth but algae is a BIG problem. Right now my HC is covered 50/50 and I don't know if all of it will make it. Only about half of my HC is clear enough to absorb light and to add insult to injury I don't know if it will survive the blackout...

Jaidexl: My pH is a very stable 7.0 (due to CO2 a balanced CO2 concentration) and your're correct but I'm not sure how contributory the pH and Temp were as a determining factor regarind the toxicity of the Ammonia/ammonium ( I regularly use Prime to detoxify but not remove the Ammonia) Of course my pH doesn't go below 7.0 unless something is out of control. I suspect that my current problem stems from a lack of sufficient plant life to absorb the nutrient leaching from the Aquasoil. This isn't as much a problem as the Original "type I" AS was...I couldn't see anything for literally a month...this time I can see but its just not crystal clear as I'm used to...

anyway here are a few quick shots since I don't want to expose the tank to any more light than absolutely necessary...I suspect that "some" people on here want to revel in my agony and pain! You'll see in the photos below that the HC on the right isn't doing as well as I'd like but on the left and front its not that bad (although not up to my expectations) and the Downoi actually are starting to put out roots! Enjoy! :help: 




























(Yeah, they think they're running the tank, look at how this shimp is trying to intimidate me on top of that rock!)


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

what kind of algae is that on the hc on the right? it looks like blue-green but i can't tell without a closer shot.
you can't always show the good times and not the bad.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*my agony, your delight!*



danepatrick said:


> what kind of algae is that on the hc on the right? it looks like blue-green but i can't tell without a closer shot.
> you can't always show the good times and not the bad.


Good question. I can't tell either! All I know is that these 3 Amanos have cleared all the rest of the HC of it and in fact, I just found two exoskeletons which apparently means they are enjoying themselves...all the better for me. And yes, I know we can't always show it when things are going well but I can't help being a perfectionist. But considering how you feel at least I did post some pics of how it looks right now...so that an accurate depiction of my dilemma is posted for your viewing enjoyment. lol.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

from my computer, it looks like blue-green algae. if that's what it is, go and get some erithro. and half dose it every other day for 3 total times and it usually clears it up. that's my way of dealing with it. btw - i love the hairgrass. i would get some from you, but i don't want a background plant with runners that will run into my stem plants.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

styxx said:


> My H20 parameters are quite good:
> 
> 0ppm Ammonia/Ammonium
> 0ppm Nitrite
> ...


Have you tried bumping up the nitrates to 10-20 ppm ? My tank will crash with nitrate that low!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*yeah!*



danepatrick said:


> from my computer, it looks like blue-green algae. if that's what it is, go and get some erithro. and half dose it every other day for 3 total times and it usually clears it up. that's my way of dealing with it. btw - i love the hairgrass. i would get some from you, but i don't want a background plant with runners that will run into my stem plants.


Well I would try that but I think the Amanos are just about finished with it...and yeah I love the hairgrass but after about 6 months it *does* start to become a PITA. But its beautiful no doubt. The next tank that I buy I'm going to use Cyprus Heleferi (sp?) as a background...its so awesome.

Eyebeatbadgers: I think that I might try that, but I want to wait and see what happens. I just bought a UV filter and it should be here around Wed/Thur? around which time my blackout will have been complete. Strange enough, the GW problem seems to be getting worse (despite the fact that my tank is covered by a black garbage bag and then a dark blue towel over that!)...but here's another quick pic of one of my cleanup crew chillin...



And here we have the boys hanging out under the CO2 diffuser with one of my perverted ottocinclus (I don't know if he was just lonely or wanted some "company" LOL) Either way, its pretty weird behavior don't you think?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*A quick update*

Well it appears that my GW problem has dissipated on its own. And here I am $75 later with a UV Filter that I don't need...I guess I'll keep it just in case I ever have a flare up. Here is a quick and dirty shot of the tank today (H2O change today) Everything has been cleaned up, the Giant Hairgrass trimmed (its starting to put out runners now) and the Moneywort is starting to really grow like crazy and get quite tall. The HC is slowly recovering from being covered in algae so I hope it will green up a little and come back...its become quite light in color and yellow in places since it's been starved of light and covered with algae. I think with a little TLC it will bounce back. What is surprising is that some of my Downoi are really growing as evidenced by the attached photo. I hope all of them become as large as this one...the kids are playing nicely, so overall I'm happy. I'm going to get another rock to put in the middle and then I'll be finished with this tank...maybe buy a few more Downoi and/or Anubias Nana Petite, and that will be it!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

styxx said:


> Well it appears that my GW problem has dissipated on its own. And here I am $75 later with a UV Filter that I don't need.


Haha, don't you just love it, same here. Anyone want to trade a UVS for diatom??

Tank's looking good though.:thumbsup:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I know isn't that typical! Oh well I guess i'll keep it you never know when you might need one right? Its slowly coming together I think in a month it will really be impressive. Any suggestions on improving this tank with some additional plants? I'm trying to keep it simple and close to an Iwugami as possible...


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Hmm, I don't know about Iwugami, I can tell you how to make it look wild though, lol. Maybe some acruata or something around a stone or two I guess.

If it were my tank, I'd probably be doing some kind of starwars diorama in it, or maybe Snake eyes and Storm shadow dukin it out. :biggrin:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Tada!*

Ok, so I finally got my UV Filter in today and plumbed it inline and the water clarity is really improving substantially after a full day's use. Here are a few pics:


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

that's the weirdest dang uv filter i've seen. probably some rich person fancy shmancy one! :icon_roll


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## groyed (Oct 3, 2007)

A little patch of mini pelia on your rocks would be a good addition, if you can your hands on some.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*ha ha ha*



danepatrick said:


> that's the weirdest dang uv filter i've seen. probably some rich person fancy shmancy one! :icon_roll


LOL. Yeah, right. Check this out:


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

yo, everything looks great, keep up the good work. The only minor critiscm that I have is that I might like to see a little bit more hight and depth to the hardscape, imho. Other than that everything looks great


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Things are looking good there. 
1 thing, when you trim your background plants, alternate it. it's too straight across the back.


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## sNApple (Nov 6, 2005)

i like the look of that tall hair grass, ive never seen any around here..


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Thanks for the comments! I'm really pleased with the giant hair grass...but once it gets going, watch out! It will start sending runners out everywhere! The problem with it is that you really need high light to get it to grow and not die and it tends to get some hair algae. Now I'm just waiting for the HC to fill in...I'm thinking next week I'm going to thin out what I have and try and replant the right hand side of the tank. We'll see what happens.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

so here are a few more pics that I just took...I think I'm getting the hang of this photography thing...lighting is *really* important and yet so difficult to manage for me. And I definately have the Amano "ripple" effect down. Its all about outflow position and flow rate. Of course I also simply had to take a Macro shot of one of the ottos, and a few of the O2 pearling shots. Hope you like them! Now all I need is a Nikon D40!


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

looking good man!!


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Alright, i've been hangin in here and staying quite, but it's time i speak up.

With all that expen$ive gla$$ware, ORGANIZE IT!!!!

straighten your lillies, taught that CO2 line to the diffuser, and get rid of that AMMO ALert!!!

Wheww, glad i got that off my chest..


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Yeah!*



dufus said:


> Alright, i've been hangin in here and staying quite, but it's time i speak up.
> 
> With all that expen$ive gla$$ware, ORGANIZE IT!!!!
> 
> ...


LOL!!! Well I feel better too! hahaha...I'll go do that right now. I think I probably should remove that ammo Alert. It really has become superflous now that everything is balanced, but i'm hesitant to take it out just in case something goes crazy. Maybe I'll just move it and hid it somewhere...and that damn CO2 line is a PITA. Believe me...its harder than hell to keep it attached to the diffuser and very difficult to put on. I'm loath to add the light blue flexible tubing even thought it goes on and stays on well, because the color is horrible. I appreciate the comments and keep me in line, I need it or else I'll go off the deep end!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

LOL! Hey, it looks really great but I agree, at least strip the tank down for pictures. I know I'm too lazy to do it though, but mine aren't ADA style either, just plain old fish tanks so that's how I gotta roll.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

jaidexl said:


> LOL! Hey, it looks really great but I agree, at least strip the tank down for pictures. I know I'm too lazy to do it though, but mine aren't ADA style either, just plain old fish tanks so that's how I gotta roll.


Well I'm just as lazy! lol...unless of course its something that is really important, then I'm usually all over it. so I've thinned out some of the HC in the front of the tank to plant some more on the right hand side. I also have included a macro shot of one of the kids chillin.


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Ahh otos, great lil critters aren't they.

RE: CO2 line.
maybe some suction cups or maybe something on the top of the tank to keep the line taught. or maybe look into some rigid line.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*quick and dirty update...*



dufus said:


> Ahh otos, great lil critters aren't they.
> 
> RE: CO2 line.
> maybe some suction cups or maybe something on the top of the tank to keep the line taught. or maybe look into some rigid line.


These ottos are really awesome, but I think I'm going to have to supplement some cucumber and zucchini for them since there's not that much algae for them to eat now that my tank is under control. The water has really cleared up fantastically! Now that I've gotten this fixed, I'm going to try and get this HC to really spread. I've thinned out the front (what a PITA) and its slowly but surely improving. My question is what to do about my downoi? They're really starting to grow but do I cut them and replant or just let them keep growing? I have no experience with this plant. Anyone have any ideas??


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I'd say let them keep growing! Looks cool. I have no experience with them either and hopefully I'm going to have the same problem.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Another quick update, by request*



MrJG said:


> I'd say let them keep growing! Looks cool. I have no experience with them either and hopefully I'm going to have the same problem.


I'm thinking of trimming them and replanting and see what happens they've started to grow what look like water roots but maybe it will root into the substrate. I don't know...we'll see what happens next week. I want them really healthy before I start to experiment...lol. So since someone suggested that I need to post more pics, more frequently despite the fact that not that many people read my thread for its lack of substantive information or complex discussions on plant physiology, here are a few more:




























And yes, that is actually the giant hairgrass pearling. As amazing as it is, it will only pearl after an entire day of direct light but considering that I could never get this plant to grow at all in any other lighting concentration except what I have (6.5wpg) its very satisfying to me. And of course the HC continues it inevitable unrestrained growth like a madman across my tank substrate. The downoi have almost completely shed its old leaves and have new growth. I suspect that by the end of next week it will have all new leaves...I'm pretty pleased to say the least...


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Great update, and great growth! I say don't trim a thing for a while and let everything grow like crazy for about a month, then trim it back real nice. Especially with the HC, DON'T TOUCH IT, then once you've got a lot, you can trim it back and make a _tighter_ carpet out of it. Overall I'd say huge improvement and great job!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*HC Hell...*



CmLaracy said:


> Great update, and great growth! I say don't trim a thing for a while and let everything grow like crazy for about a month, then trim it back real nice. Especially with the HC, DON'T TOUCH IT, then once you've got a lot, you can trim it back and make a _tighter carpet out of it. Overall I'd say huge improvement and great job!_


_

oh believe me...it won't take a month...maybe a week. Have you noticed the dates of the proceeding pic of the HC and today's? That should give you some idea of how crazy fast its going..._


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## trfjason (Aug 10, 2006)

Wow, the HC grew so much in one week!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

o yeah, wow, nine freakin days! thats it! wow, I'd still say let it grow another month, lawl, you'd have like a 2" carpet! That'd be so sick....


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

aaargh nice HC... i wish mine grow like that...

and i didn't know that downois can grow tall like that?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*I need a drink...*



ikuzo said:


> aaargh nice HC... i wish mine grow like that...
> 
> and i didn't know that downois can grow tall like that?


oh believe me its a simple combination to get this growth and here's my "recipe" for success:

1. Patience
2. More patience
3. ADA Aquasoil
4. High CO2
5. *Very* high light

BAM! You got it...I don't hardly dose anything at all:

16 drops ADA ECA 1x a week 
3 pumps "Brighty K" 1x daily
3 pumps "Brighty Special Lights" 1x daily 

That's it! Very simple. 

I'm actually _afraid _of dosing Excel because the HC would really go crazy then...I'd be in there having to thin it out every damn day...and as for the Downoi, I'm just flying by the seat of my pants on them...I've never had them, but I decided to take a risk and I trimmed them and replanted the tops, hopefully they'll grow...(fingers crossed) I think I'm starting to really improve my photographic skills at the Macro level, but I still have problems with color saturation, white balance and focus...more practice!!! I probably need to take a class...anyway here are the results of the trim:




























Hope you like!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

yea yea. show it off!

i'm kidding. it looks great man. you've done a really good job. i'm proud.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> yea yea. show it off!
> 
> i'm kidding. it looks great man. you've done a really good job. i'm proud.


Yeah and since you're always telling me I need to post more "full tank" pics, here's one just for you. And yes, I'm well aware of the need to clean the intake lily pipe, but that's a PITA to do so you'll just have to deal with it for now. I hope you're happy now! This Bacopa is getting on my damn nerves. I think I'm going to just replace it with some rotalia r. like in my original post...but I think I might need something else...maybe something in front of the hairgrass with some height...maybe some anubias coffefolia or another tall stone? I don't know, anyone have any opinions? On the other hand the Downoi are really starting to impress me. They have certainly recovered and now seem to be really thriving with my gentle attentions...hahahah


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

nice growth, once again!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i love it man. i'm so jealous of the HC. when i get my little goo algae under control, i'll upgrade my lights again. i found a decent place to get a halide and i think i'm gonna eventually get two. one for my planted tank and one for my reef.
why is the bacopa getting on your nerves. it's beautiful. mine is growing wonderfully as well. mail it to me if you get rid of it!
as for a mid-ground plant, i would get some blyxa japonica. but i would add another rock as well. i thought all of us told you to? lazy butt. get one, and place it at an angle i would maybe even re-position the other two. but then i think you would disturb the substrate pretty bad and will probably end up dealing with some brown water. lol.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*quick peek*



danepatrick said:


> i love it man. i'm so jealous of the HC. when i get my little goo algae under control, i'll upgrade my lights again. i found a decent place to get a halide and i think i'm gonna eventually get two. one for my planted tank and one for my reef.
> why is the bacopa getting on your nerves. it's beautiful. mine is growing wonderfully as well. mail it to me if you get rid of it!
> as for a mid-ground plant, i would get some blyxa japonica. but i would add another rock as well. i thought all of us told you to? lazy butt. get one, and place it at an angle i would maybe even re-position the other two. but then i think you would disturb the substrate pretty bad and will probably end up dealing with some brown water. lol.


aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh...well you'll really get jealous with these pics I think...the bacopa has gotten on my damn nerves so much I've just about thrown it all out (it kept dying on me b/c it would accumulate this nasty algae goo on the leaves...I thought giant hairgrass needed high light...wow...this bacopa is ridiculous) Anyway this Friday i'm going to get another taller rock to put in the middle of the arrangement (and no doubt it will be a mess) but I recently did my 3 month filter cleaning so new filter pads all around and new Purigen...It should clear up realatively easily and I've noticed my flow has increased a lot...those fine filter pads were a mess! Anyway here's my progress so far...






















I've included a few side pics for you to see the degree of incline and the progress of the HC towards the hairgrass...So I think that when everything is all said and done, I'm going to just replace the bacopa with some Rotalia sp.Green or Rotundifolia...but that will have to wait until next week when I got to pick up the stone...I saw some crypt lucens that I might use for a midground plant but we'll see what happens...I think I'm going to start dosing more iron on a daily basis and try and green up this HC. Its ok, but I'd like it to match the hairgrass in color depth.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Very nice!

Your CO2 diffuser is yucky looking!

What brand is your UV Sterilizer?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

nasty goo algae? dear God i hope you don't have what i had! the bacopa doesn't require high light man! idk why you were collecting algae on it! it's the same bacopa in my tank. maybe your light is too high for it. kind of like anubias eh? bacopa sp. are a slower of a stem plant than most. about the Fe, ehhhh. idk. you know my thoughts on it.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Danepatrick - Yes, I think I do have it! But it only grows on the bacopa, so Idk...maybe my light is too high for it, but you remember how awesome my rotalia grew in this tank under this lighting! 

tropicalfish - I know, I need to soak my CO2 diffuser in some bleach but I don't have the time or the bleach right now...final exams coming up quick and so the semester is almost over...I'm swamped...this tank is lucky to get a water change and dosing these days...luckily almost everything is automated... If I remember correctly I think my UV is either an Aqaumedic or Jebo, I can't recall...


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Oh..
My UV Sterilizer is an AquaMedic, and it looks a bit different..
I can also hardly see the light through the clear pipe barbs.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Beautiful job, Styxx

I love the HC/Downois mix. Your rock is great too. Soothing tank, and yes your photography skills are improving as you go!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

fresh_lynny said:


> Beautiful job, Styxx
> 
> I love the HC/Downois mix. Your rock is great too. Soothing tank, and yes your photography skills are improving as you go!


Well coming from you that means a lot! It's nice to finally get "noticed" around here...lol! I've still got one more rock to get and then I've got a plant for the back...I appreciate the support!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

^ (mm/dd/yyyy) plz thx lawl


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

CmLaracy said:


> ^ (mm/dd/yyyy) plz thx lawz
> 
> 
> urz trooli
> ZoMG Chris


what did you say?


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

translation: 
^ (mm/dd/yyyy) = update 
plz = please 
thx = thanks 
lawz = lol
hahahah

Chris


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

CmLaracy said:


> translation:
> ^ (mm/dd/yyyy) = update
> plz = please
> thx = thanks
> ...


hahahaha....ok...here one comes...give a minute or two...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*ok...a quick update...but not much new to report!*

So as you can see here not much has changed. I've moved the right rock over to accommodate the next rock to be added in the area where the downoi are currently located. I think I'll be planting them together around it...and I'm planning on introducing some rotalia sp. green in the right hand corner of the tank near the back wall. Of course the HC is pearling like crazy and doing great, as long as I continue to manicure my "lawn"...I've been having some issues with the giant hairgrass growing forward which has necessitated my digging up new runners and replanting them along the back wall and its a PITA but fortunately it hasn't gotten too time consuming. I think you can also see the reflection of the tank in the surface of the water! I try to keep a minimal flow on the surface to prevent film buildup (except of course when I'm taking pics then I want it to be still to get that mirror image effect). When I look back at where I started on this project and the ups and downs, I have to say I'm really amazed at my progress...what do you think?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

hjgfjftz!!!! fuyguftfytok,m,!!!! ygftgrdrd!!!!!!! UGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
:angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

mmm lookin' good. The downoi forest is rockin'!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

the side shot really shows how fast your HC carpet grow. good job.

how much CO2 do you use in bps?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> hjgfjftz!!!! fuyguftfytok,m,!!!! ygftgrdrd!!!!!!! UGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
> :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire


Do I detect a small amount of...hmmmm...jealousy perhaps? lol. Don't worry one day when you are rich, you _too _can be this successful! LMAO!!!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

As you can imagine, not much has changed in this tank. I'm very busy with end of the semester school work and don't have any time other than to trim, dose, change the water and take a few pics...


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## windfish (Dec 2, 2007)

Your plants are beautiful, and its clear that you have the skill and patience to keep them looking that way and grow them as well.

Why no significant hardscape though? If you added one more stone like the others but larger and made the hairgrass less linear you could have a nice iwagumi-style layout.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

I sorda agree wit^^^

But thePlants look fantastic!

Do you have any problems with your HC uprooting?
Your HC looks so nice and flat.

I'm having a constant battle with keeping my HC down tho it is growing thick in parts.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Thanks!*



windfish said:


> Your plants are beautiful, and its clear that you have the skill and patience to keep them looking that way and grow them as well.
> 
> Why no significant hardscape though? If you added one more stone like the others but larger and made the hairgrass less linear you could have a nice iwagumi-style layout.


I'm waiting on the LFS to get another order of rock in and I'll be changing the scape around some by removing the downoi from the middle and surrounding another stone in its place and adding some rotalia rotundifolia or sp. green to the right hand corner...in terms of the hairgrass, what do you suggest?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Fyi*

Just a quick one before I go to bed. I got some rotala rotundafolia in this week and its not doing so hot but hopefully it will perk up a lot over the next week or so...I also trimmed the HC and the downoi and replanted some of it in the right hand corner. I don't know if it will grow as well in the shade but time will only tell what happens. I'm picking up a replacement light bulb and another stone this week finally, after waiting for my crappy LFS to restock their inventory! yeah! I'm also thinking about getting a few rasboras or tetras...we'll see what happens with those when I get there...the LFS always seems to have something different in every time I get there but its pretty good compared to Pets*art and other "pet" stores...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Christmas update*

Not much to tell...been very busy with school work (yes even after the semester's over, grad students work  ) and Holiday shopping, cards, etc. Wow...I've also been wrapped up in a new PC game (world in conflict) and have been spending $$ like crazy...so far the HC has really grown in and has improved...I might start selling it now that its so thick! I just gave up trimming it and its went wild. I'm also starting to see some slow improvement in the rotala but not like what I'd like to see so I've ordered some ADA ferts to take care of it....here are a few pics (not that anyone will notice much of a change! lol) When I look back at just a month ago the change in growth...well needless to say I'm shocked. hahaha...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

CmLaracy said:


> o yeah, wow, nine freakin days! thats it! wow, I'd still say let it grow another month, lawl, you'd have like a 2" carpet! That'd be so sick....


Yeah now look at it!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Please stand by...*

Changes are in the works & please excuse our mess...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

whoaaaa nelly. lookin' good buddy. so the rotala shaped up, eh?? it looks nice. when it hits that surface, cut it real low and replant the stems on the left of those others. i'm not sure what i'd do in that middle there. although, i'd might put a niiiiice piece of manzanita or however you spell it and put some moss and java fern all on that thing! BAM!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

love the giant grass background. what's your plan for the barren area in the middle?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*yeah....*



danepatrick said:


> whoaaaa nelly. lookin' good buddy. so the rotala shaped up, eh?? it looks nice. when it hits that surface, cut it real low and replant the stems on the left of those others. i'm not sure what i'd do in that middle there. although, i'd might put a niiiiice piece of manzanita or however you spell it and put some moss and java fern all on that thing! BAM!


Well I'm glad you like it! I've def. begun to re-evaluate my hardscape...as for the rotala...well...its not to my standards but I think that it is certainly improving from what it used to be like! You know how much of a PITA I am about things being perfect!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*hmmmm...*



ikuzo said:


> love the giant grass background. what's your plan for the barren area in the middle?


Now *that's* the question isn't it!? I think I'm going to get another rock because I just want an iwugami layout rather than a Dutch look...but we'll see what my s*itty LFS has in stock...they never keep any decent rock in stock anymore! And to add insult to injury I need a new light! ahhh...the challenges of aquarium keeping! lol.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Hey the tank looks great, the downoi is a beautiful plant. I really liked the pic you had from 12/17 with the downoi centerpiece.


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## Haeun (Mar 9, 2007)

I like how it's looking now!


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## Matsu49 (Jan 1, 2008)

Wow it was nice watching your tank thru all of its stages. I can tell that you really learned alot about your tank and photography. Keep up the good work.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

anything new to post?


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

Love the theme so far, so I painted up something for you. Just a suggestion. Please forgive the weak computer paint skills.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

wow. that's exactly what i've always had in mind for him.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

styxx - I really like your setup and layout. The HC looks fantastic and your choice of plants compliment the overall look very well. I am interested to see what you did with that spot that you cleared in the center.

Very nicely done!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Just a quick update, sorry for being away...school is very hectic these days! I've completely tore my tank apart and started over from scratch. It fell by the wayside and deteriorated so now I'm trying to get it going again...stand by for more updates. I'll try to post some pics by Monday. Thanks for your interest!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Update*

Well not much to report. As you can see, little change since my last post...if anything I've completely ripped out the HC and replanted and eliminated the downoi (although i still miss them) and did a hack job on the Giant Hairgrass. School has really been HELL this semester so no time to do anything other than add 15 Amano shrimp to the tank a few Rasboras...i'm going to do SOMETHING eventually with the middle of the tank...but time is always against me...


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

a very even cut on the hairgrass, LoL


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

yea bro, you sure did a number on that tank. lol. i'll get mine up eventually.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*So I've FINALLY got this started again....*

Well, I finally went and got the rock that I needed and it looks much better, more character and I've rescaped the layout a little...as you can see in the attached photos, I've tried to recreate a hill effect on the left hand side. I think that once the HC grows in better it will look awesome. I'm thinking of planting something around the rocks again but haven't decided on anything. I really want something small but taller than the HC, maybe Downoi again, but it grows so damn fast in this tank, I don't know if I want to deal with that all over again. Suggestions? Also I'm still wondering about the background. The Giant Hairgrass is nice, but once it starts growing it gets out of control quickly and will slowly encroach forward...maybe I'll just plant some in the corners for balance? What do you think?

Of course I tried my damnedest to get a decent photo of my rascal Rasboras but boy are they fast! lol. And of course a few photos of my Amanos are always fun, so I've included a few of those as well...as usual, any suggestions or comments are appreciated! Thanks for looking!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

fishman9809 said:


> a very even cut on the hairgrass, LoL


Lol. Yeah, I got so pissed off on Sunday (water change/maintainence day) that I said the hell with this and cut it all down, along with a lot of other things (see earlier posts) so that's how that happened. I'm probably not going to bother it anymore (until I get pissed off again, which tends to happen fairly often...LOL)


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Complete Rescape-Here We Go Again...!*

Ok, well after much turmoil and indecision I've decided to completely rescape this tank. Over the past few days I've torn down the tank, added a little more ADA AS and cleaned out a LOT of crap, plants, etc. Unfortunately, in the course of this I (poorly) chose not to remove my Rasboras and they all died (but I only had 5) and that was a casualty of my stupidity. I mistakenly thought that they could handle it, but apparently not...interestingly however, my Otto that's been alive now for about a year and 1/2 on relatively nothing (since I don't often have algae on on the glass,* still is alive!* I've since come to the conclusion that he could probably survive a nuclear war...lol. Anyway, now that this semester has ended, I have the time to devote to my hobby and I hope that will be reflected in my progress. I will, however, continue with an Iwugami design, considering how I like the Zen feel of that layout. Thus, I will recycle my HC but you'll note in my signature that I've added a few new members of my plant family including Eleocharis Vivipara, Blyxa Japonica, Cyperus helferi and perhaps some Anubias Nana Petite (If I can't get my hands on some more Downoi)...

So here's where I stand so far...actually I've done much more by replanting the HC but my back is killing me from that effort so I"m going to take a break and post the rest of the pics tomorrow or later on tonight. I still have a little more to do and I have to replace my Amanos so that they can get back to work! lol. As usual, any suggestions, comments or questions are welcomed!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

The @)(^)(^%#)(^*&*&^$ Blyxa is dead. So I guess I'm going to have to find another substitute for that area, any ideas?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well everyone...I've decided to break down my tank and sell everything. I've simply far too much school work this summer to really take care of the tank the way I should and for the longest time I've been thinking about upgrading to the 90P. So with that, I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions over the years and all of their suggestions, comments, questions and criticisms. You've helped me grow tremendously in this hobby and I appreciate it immensely. Thank you! Know that once I've finished the summer semester and finished moving (Hello everyone out there in Seattle! Here I come) that I'll back on with a new thread! Cya!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

this is bad news styxx, i'll be waiting for the next 90P


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

Why is this bad bews? I think it's wise to break down a tank rather than neglect it...plus, he's getting another, so...


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

well because i like the tank, i have been following the progress since the beginning, and it's too bad because the HC is growing nicely. something i have not yet achieve succesfully.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

this is true...I hate it when tanks are torn down, but I suspect his next one will be even better...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Oh boy! I can't wait to get started! lol. I have big plans my friends, big plans! Hahahaha


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

keep'em coming


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Check me out!!*



ikuzo said:


> keep'em coming


ikuzo, you should check out my new project on the 90P that's in my signature!


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