# Is a filter really needed in a heavily planted "el natural" tank?



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Short answer, it's always about balance plants/fish bio-load. 

I've always felt filters are our "safety" net in between water changes.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

You still need a mechnical filter to clean the debris.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I treat my filters as mechanical not biological.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

Stagnant water is not a good thing. Not only will you get poor gas exchange throughout the tank, but scum will tend to form on the surface.


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## sick lid (Jan 13, 2008)

Sharkfood said:


> Stagnant water is not a good thing. Not only will you get poor gas exchange throughout the tank, but scum will tend to form on the surface.


won't be stagnant with movement


> Also in the tank is a small 40 gph pump that agitate the water surface.


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

"Filter" and "way to move water around" are not quite the same thing in this case.


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

x2h said:


> I remember in Diane Walstad's book she mumbled about filters being kind of necessary in a natural tank (I could be wrong). But my impression after reading the book is, she's not so sure.


From "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium":

"Filters and water movement- Tanks with a soil layer and healthy plants will remove ammonia, so filtration is not really necessary (see page 111). I have used 'hang-on-the-back' filters, canister filters, or submerged pumps that just circulate water."


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

zdnet said:


> From Ecology of the Planted Aquarium:
> 
> "Filters and water movement- Tanks with a soil layer and healthy plants will remove ammonia, so filtration is not really necessary (see page 111). I have used 'hang-on-the-back' filters, canister filters, or submerged pumps that just circulate water."


It cost the same $ to run electric wise, initial set up cost and removed detritus, might as well use the filter also. But most of the Bio is the plants.
This is true in most aquariums, not just these.

I measured quite significant rise in O2 with Wet/dry vs canister filters.
And this also was the case for the non CO2 tank I have. About 1-2ppm more over the 24 hour day cycle.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks Zdnet and Tom and others. It is now clear to me. I think if one uses an empty filter only to move water, then that could be achieved by a powerhead/water pump aiming at surface, with the following benefits:

1. No worries of filter malfunctioning/leaking and ruining the floor.
2. Less clustering (no more tubing etc) of equipment.
3. No periodic change of filter media = time/cost saving = easier to justify to your significant other for "just one last tank" etc.:hihi:

The disadvantage might be that the pump is noisier than the (canister) filter.


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

x2h said:


> The disadvantage might be that the pump is noisier than the (canister) filter.


I use Marineland Maxi-Jet Submersible Utility Pump to circulate water. No noise at all. They have various capacity models.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

zdnet said:


> I use Marineland Maxi-Jet Submersible Utility Pump to circulate water. No noise at all. They have various capacity models.


thanks but every pump manufacturer claims their pump is silent. when you say no noise at all, do you mean it is silent from 10 ft away or you can't hear it even if you put your ear close to it?


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## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

x2h said:


> thanks but every pump manufacturer claims their pump is silent. when you say no noise at all, do you mean it is silent from 10 ft away or you can't hear it even if you put your ear close to it?


With my ear right next to the tank glass, no noise at all.


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## radioman (Oct 29, 2007)

I don't have a filter on my .9g but then again that is really easy to do frequent water changes on and I have no fauna in it.


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

x2h said:


> Thanks Zdnet and Tom and others. It is now clear to me. I think if one uses an empty filter only to move water, then that could be achieved by a powerhead/water pump aiming at surface, with the following benefits:
> 
> 1. No worries of filter malfunctioning/leaking and ruining the floor.
> 2. Less clustering (no more tubing etc) of equipment.
> 3. No periodic change of filter media = time/cost saving = easier to justify to your significant other for "just one last tank" etc.:hihi:


:thumbsup:

You will need to ensure that you have constant plant growth turning the ammonia/nitrates into plant biomass, though. Very important to get your light/CO2/nutrients handled properly.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

kuni said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> You will need to ensure that you have constant plant growth turning the ammonia/nitrates into plant biomass, though. Very important to get your light/CO2/nutrients handled properly.


I agree. that's an important part. That's why I am more comfortable to suggest this in a heavily planted tank.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*Easily done*

>2yr old 55g dirt tank. Single maxjet discharging into a DIY spraybar.










One dirt tank, one EcoComp. Both use a single maxi-jet 400 with a sponge pre-filter.



















Lower tank




























Hide the sponge










Growth is accelerated because of the flow and once grown in the sponge disappears. 










Easily done roud:

power consumption for this 'filter' / water movement system is a tiny 5watt rating from the UL listing.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Is Filtration Required?*

Good morning x2h...

If you did a large water change every day, then there would be no need for any filtration, because the fish would always be swimming in fresh water. However, I don't know of very many people that have that kind of time or dedication to water keeping.

For most of us that want to keep aqauariums, but want to have a life too, then filter equipment is a good idea.

B


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Thread replies can be so thought provoking at times :hihi:


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

wkndracer said:


> Thread replies can be so thought provoking at times :hihi:


I agree totally!:biggrin: Nice tanks man, I've seen them in other threads before but didn't give it a thought about the filter.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

wkndracer said:


> Thread replies can be so thought provoking at times :hihi:


hey BTW what is that plant that grows our of the tank? It's so neat. I must have it before but forgot the name. And I never thought it could go emerged. Some willow?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

haha yeah gotta thread or two :hihi:

Polygonum sp. 'Kawagoeanum' and it gets trimmed about monthly with it in three tanks so I can save up some for a care package when ya want it :wink:


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

wkndracer said:


> haha yeah gotta thread or two :hihi:
> 
> Polygonum sp. 'Kawagoeanum' and it gets trimmed about monthly with it in three tanks so I can save up some for a care package when ya want it :wink:


Cool! Would love to have some from you. Please PM me the cost when you have it. Thanks!


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

x2h said:


> Thanks Zdnet and Tom and others. It is now clear to me. I think if one uses an empty filter only to move water, then that could be achieved by a powerhead/water pump aiming at surface, with the following benefits:
> 
> 1. No worries of filter malfunctioning/leaking and ruining the floor.
> 2. Less clustering (no more tubing etc) of equipment.
> ...


Please note to use the proper size powerhead and strainer if going this route. I lost most of my fish due to the strong suction they create in my saltwater side of the hobby. In saltwater reefing, we tend to use the most powerful pump ever built so we have to devise a lot of safety measure for powerhead.

I run a 20G extra tall planted tank with literally no filter for like over 5 years now. It has gone thru different changes and stages and currently just a bubbler and clogged powerhead which I cover it with 10 micron filter pad intentional to block it from sucking my fish babies and shrimp babies. It was clear of ALL algae for 4 - 5 years until last two months. I start to have filament algae. I attribute that to my laziness of not cleaning the filter pad, thus too little flow and my discontinuation of the under gravel system. I cannot restart it now fearing the bottom becomes too anabolic already-I have a deep sand bed(5 inch or so).

So my conclusion is that even without a filter, you can run your system for an extended period of time. However, eventually you will have to deal with the gunk that left in the sand/soil/pebble periodically such as using a python-1/10th of the sand a time. External Filter acts some what like an automatic tool to clean the tank of this but unfortunately no filter is designed to clean the sand bed either. It only slow down the frequency needed to clean the sand bed-so the python comes back in the picture. External filter also poses a danger, when not done properly, mass bacteria die off can happen. So I think you just have to know the up and downs of the EQ at hands to create a balance. So either way will work if you get a hang of what you are doing


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