# metal halide questions!!



## PAINKILLER1009 (Jan 29, 2007)

Very good question. I also wonder why these aren't used as much. I go the the local fish store and there display tank is lite with Metal Halides. The color pops out the the plants alot more with HID lighting. I'm thinking of starting a reef tank with one.

Here is a good link to a very cheap fixture. What ya think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/150-Watt-Metal-...-Security_W0QQitemZ130090908387QQcmdZViewItem


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

you can buy a housing sort of like that from walmart for like $14. what you posted in the link is just the housing as is the one for $14 at WM. the most costly part is the ballast which you can get from ballastwise.com. 
here's the link to an open thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/39586-70-diy-70w-hqi-metal-halide.html


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

PAINKILLER1009 said:


> Very good question. I also wonder why these aren't used as much. I go the the local fish store and there display tank is lite with Metal Halides. The color pops out the the plants alot more with HID lighting. I'm thinking of starting a reef tank with one.
> 
> Here is a good link to a very cheap fixture. What ya think?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/150-Watt-Metal-...-Security_W0QQitemZ130090908387QQcmdZViewItem


1) Magnetic ballast -- nowadays, unless you're planning to drive your MH to the extreme, electronic ballasts are preferred since they run cooler and more efficiently.

2) What kind of MH lamp is this? There's many types of MH lamps. The ones most suitable for aquarium use and are 150W are usually the DE (double-ended) bulbs. There are also SE (single-ended) ie: mogul, bulbs that are usually present in higher wattages. This flood lamp may not use either type of bulb, thus limiting you to whatever color temperatures come in that specific bulb mount. From the "1/2 threaded knuckle mount" description, I'm guessing it's a "medium" mount which is different than most aquarium bulbs.

With that said, it's not bad to use these setups, especially for a planted tank since color temperatures that these bulbs come in (~3000K to 6500K) are suitable for tank growth. They're not very common in reef aquaria, however, since color temperatures ranging from 10000K to 20000K are more desired.


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## PAINKILLER1009 (Jan 29, 2007)

Just the housing? Maybe I missed something. In the description its says 
"150 Watt Metal Halide Medium Flood Light
Includes: Housing, ballast, glass lens, socket, NEW 150W MH lamp & 1/2" adjustable threaded knuckle mount."

I have seen that thread about the diy lights. I have always wanted to do one myself, but the one on ebay is a one stop shop with all the goodys in one package. No installation of a new ballast, just wire it up and go.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

epicfish said:


> 1) Magnetic ballast -- nowadays, unless you're planning to drive your MH to the extreme, electronic ballasts are preferred since they run cooler and more efficiently.
> 
> 2) What kind of MH lamp is this? There's many types of MH lamps. The ones most suitable for aquarium use and are 150W are usually the DE (double-ended) bulbs. There are also SE (single-ended) ie: mogul, bulbs that are usually present in higher wattages. This flood lamp may not use either type of bulb, thus limiting you to whatever color temperatures come in that specific bulb mount. From the "1/2 threaded knuckle mount" description, I'm guessing it's a "medium" mount which is different than most aquarium bulbs.
> 
> With that said, it's not bad to use these setups, especially for a planted tank since color temperatures that these bulbs come in (~3000K to 6500K) are suitable for tank growth. They're not very common in reef aquaria, however, since color temperatures ranging from 10000K to 20000K are more desired.


it is a DE floodlight such as the one i posted in the link the only difference is the size and that's why i assume that the spread of the light would be much smaller, but you could maybe use 2 70w minis.
i'm also pretty sure that for a reef tank, you can buy reef temp bulbs and use then instead of the lower temp ones.
so i guess i'll ask again to see if anyone knows, is the only difference the spread of the light?

something like the pic? basicly the area of intensity is larger on the larger one?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

PAINKILLER1009 said:


> Just the housing? Maybe I missed something. In the description its says
> "150 Watt Metal Halide Medium Flood Light
> Includes: Housing, ballast, glass lens, socket, NEW 150W MH lamp & 1/2" adjustable threaded knuckle mount."
> 
> I have seen that thread about the diy lights. I have always wanted to do one myself, but the one on ebay is a one stop shop with all the goodys in one package. No installation of a new ballast, just wire it up and go.


ahh.. didn't read.  that is awfully cheap. remember that you need a decent quality ballast. (or so i've read!) :hihi:


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

I might have missread, but are you talking about some specific mini housing? Perhaps a link?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

uhhh. i think so? i guess since it takes the same 150w bulb but just a smaller housing right?


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

Now, if you take a careful look at osram website, you will find mini metal halide. 
The powerball series, single ended bulb rated at 35W and 70W. 

http://catalog.myosram.com

Small tank with (small) halides? why not? 

*fixed


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

^^ link doesn't work.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Look in that DIY link. It says to use a 300W fixture.

If you're talking about a "mini" pendant like this:
http://www.thehardwarecity.com/thc/?sku=2271435

Note that it's 150W.

HOWEVER, check the dimensions on the 150W bulb:
http://www.thehardwarecity.com/thc/?sku=2271435

It's only 3" long.

And the dimensions on the 300W bulb:
http://www.thehardwarecity.com/thc/?sku=2271435

And for reference, the dimensions on the 500W bulb:
http://www.thehardwarecity.com/thc/?sku=2271435

The smallest wattage pendant you can use that will still fit a 70W MH bulb is the 300W unit, which don't really come in "mini" sizes. The ones you're looking at are the 150W flood units which have sockets too short to fit a 70W MH or 150W MH bulb for that matter.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

epicfish said:


> Look in that DIY link. It says to use a 300W fixture.
> 
> If you're talking about a "mini" pendant like this:
> http://www.thehardwarecity.com/thc/?sku=2271435
> ...


maybe I'm missing something but the mini halides in the store say 150w. they have even the 2 - 150w minis for a total of 300w. the minis that I've seen are just like the big 300w housers but are about half the size and say 150w on them. ill try to post pics when I get on later tonight. I'm posting mobile right now.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

danepatrick said:


> maybe I'm missing something but the mini halides in the store say 150w. they have even the 2 - 150w minis for a total of 300w. the minis that I've seen are just like the big 300w housers but are about half the size and say 150w on them. ill try to post pics when I get on later tonight. I'm posting mobile right now.


Long story short: Yes, they exist. They are 150W *HALOGEN* fixtures, not *METAL HALIDE*.

150W *halogen* bulbs are SHORTER than *metal halide* bulbs. You CANNOT fit a 70W or 150W *metal halide* bulb into a mini 150W *halogen* fixture.


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## Dawn Haze (Feb 27, 2007)

Then the next question is can you use a halogen bulb to light a planted tank?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i thought halogen was metal halide. have i been misunderstanding this whole time? wouldn't it be roughly the same intensity as a halide then?


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## swylie (May 10, 2007)

They're totally different. Halogen bulbs are high-tech incandescent bulbs. They make light by heating a wire until it's glowing white hot. Metal halide bulbs are a form of gas discharge bulbs. They ionize the gas inside the tube along with some of whatever metal is in there, be it sodium, mercury, etc, and the vaporized, ionized metal atoms glow. Fluorescent bulbs do the same thing, only the UV light that the mercury inside produces is converted to visible light by the phosphors lining the tube.

Halogen bulbs are incandescents. Metal halide bulbs aren't too terribly different than fluorescents. Halogens are just slightly better at growing plants than trad. incandescents, which is to say, they suck. You'll get 20 lumens/watt, and the color temperature will be 3400K if you're lucky.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

ok. i think this is getting confusing. let me see if i'm up to speed.

this is what i was referring to as a mini halide light: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=17302-290-MQF-150W&lpage=none now that that is clear, the problem is that a mini halogen light will not house a metal halide bulb. however, this fixture will: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=74015-290-QL-500-WL&lpage=none
is this correct?
i have also seen a 500w halogen fixture. will the 500w halogen fixture serve the same purpose as the 300w halogen fixture and you can still use the 150w halide bulb?


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## triple red (May 27, 2005)

but you still need a metal halide ballast to go with a metal halide bulb...the halogen ballast is different and will not run a halide bulb.....i remember reading how someone diy'ed a halogen housing ,metal halide bulb and a metal halide ballast...ill see if i can find it...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

triple red said:


> but you still need a metal halide ballast to go with a metal halide bulb...the halogen ballast is different and will not run a halide bulb.....i remember reading how someone diy'ed a halogen housing ,metal halide bulb and a metal halide ballast...ill see if i can find it...


yeaaa. i knew that.  thanks though.
do you guys think 150w MH will be overkill on a 38 gallon? or should i go with the 70w?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Here's a DIY 70w double ended MH kit with an electronic ballast and a 10,000K bulb. 
http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/mercha..._mh_retrofit&Category_Code=d9&Product_Count=0


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## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Nitpick: halogens don't have ballasts. They just plug straight in to wall current.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

$142 vs ~$70. i think i'll go with $70. lol.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> $142 vs ~$70. i think i'll go with $70. lol.


I know what you mean.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

any comments about the 150w being overkill on my 38g?


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## triple red (May 27, 2005)

danepatrick said:


> any comments about the 150w being overkill on my 38g?


what do you think  
jk
amano uses 150 watt metal halides on many of his tanks.....but his are suspended like a foot off of the top of the tank
how deep is your tank? 

there is a store near here that has an all adg setup...with the metal halide pendent and wow...the light is pretty cool... nice shimmery effect


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i believe the tank is 24" i could maybe get it a foot above the tank. it seems like his lights suspend more than a foot above his tanks though.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

24" is pretty deep for a small tank. If it really is that deep I'd probably say 150W is good, especially with a cheapie reflector. but I think a typical 38 is like 36"x12"x20". And the problem is 36" is really stretching the coverage for a single MH, 2x70W might be better. Remember with MH (especially with just one light) you get shadows which will reduce your effective lighting somewhat too, unless your sticking with low plants that wont overshadow others. Good luck on your project.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

crazy loaches said:


> 24" is pretty deep for a small tank. If it really is that deep I'd probably say 150W is good, especially with a cheapie reflector. but I think a typical 38 is like 36"x12"x20". And the problem is 36" is really stretching the coverage for a single MH, 2x70W might be better. Remember with MH (especially with just one light) you get shadows which will reduce your effective lighting somewhat too, unless your sticking with low plants that wont overshadow others. Good luck on your project.


you know, you're right. it is only 20" deep. idk why i said 24". i think the 2x 70w is probably the best idea so far! does anyone know if the 300 or 500 watt fixtures will hold 70w halide bulbs?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

ok, so this is similar to the housing i'm getting but _obviously_ without the motion sensor. basically what i need is help on a design for some form of "stand" or way to hang this over the tank. notice, it has to be screwed to something. i was thinking something made out of wood? or, somehow using that hinge and connect it to a series of hinges, to create something similar to this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8075+13922&pcatid=13922 anyone have any ideas?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

bump for last post.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Rip it all off. Drill two holes into the back of the housing. Screw on two eyebolts. Hang it from some EMT conduit.

If you have two pendants, use two eyebolts on each, and have a chain going through all 4. Then just attack the ends of the chain to two bent EMT conduit poles. Not the most esthetic, but probably the easiest.

Or build a canopy and screw the endplate to the canopy.


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## coldfusionpower (Dec 24, 2007)

Hi ... wanted to ask something .. mine is a standard 4 footer and using Dymax 220w... glosso keep growing upward and begging for more lights ... should i use 70w MH x2 or 150w MH x 2 ?


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## PAINKILLER1009 (Jan 29, 2007)

I would go for the 150w x2.
The 70w light isnt very bright. When I built my diy light I went with the 150w and my buddy did a 70w. He was kicking himself for not going 150w. 
Although my 150w got much much hotter then the 70w did.


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