# Forrest's 120 gallon angels and kribs



## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

It sure didn't feel like a short break... just recently got into a new house with room to start a tank. I decided to treat myself to my biggest setup yet!

After searching around and buying a 125 gallon tank on Craigslist, I discovered that I didn't have a six foot section of wall that I could dedicate with my current floor plan. So I sold the 125 (and made $50) and continued shopping. I had almost resigned myself to buying a 75 gallon tank/stand combo from petsmartco but i thankfully snapped out of it and bought it right the first time with a new 120 gallon tank. 4x2x2 of awesome. 










I picked up an eheim canister filter for the tank which was again a little much but I'm working extra for the project so I got what I wanted. 

Today I picked up five bags of ADA Amazonia light for the substrate. I don't like the idea of doing a dirted tank because I moved stuff a lot when I did this last time around... I've used ecocomplete in the past but always admired the look of aquasoil... so I treated myself again and got it!

I have to decide on LED lighting for the tank, my LFS sells and recommends current satellite products. I've been kicking around the idea of a finned 24/7 light or a beamswork pent light. Still undecided there but I have a couple weeks to decide. 

I'm building the stand with 2x4, 2x6 and plywood, I should be able to park on it by the end. I'll update with photos when I get that construction underway, probably next week. 

I also went to the rock yard last week and picked up a bunch of gray basalt/granite rocks. $4.50. Seriously, it's a great way to get consistent rocks if you don't need the latest dragon eggshell unobtanium ada rocks. Ada sells some sweet looking rocks but I think when I clean these up they're going to be great. And if I don't like them, I'm out less than a Starbucks trip. 



















As far as plants for the tank, I love crypts and swords and tiger lotus. I like jungle looks with tall flowy plants. I have a running list of plants but I think crypts will play a large part. Probably hygro for stems, crypt parva for the foreground, crypt retrospiralis for the background along with swords. And I'm eager to grab some of that new buce, which I had never heard of before. 

On to the fish! I will have a few sorts of rainbows, perhaps a goodied livebearer group, either green neon tetras or harlequin rasboras for the small fish and then a few oddballs yet to be determined. I've always wanted blue rams. Tossing around the idea of zebra otos instead of the usual fare but the price may change my mind. 

No co2 in this tank. I've killed far too many fish that way. I may change my mind down the road but I want to make an effort to be successful without it. I'm super excited to be coming back! My three year old is thrilled to have fish also, going to get him a little chair to sit and stare!


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## mattenx (Nov 28, 2016)

Nice. Welcome back. Can't wait to see this get built out


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Looks like the start of a very nice set up. Looking forward to seeing how this develops. Subscribed.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Congratulations on the new 120 gallon tank. I think you will really enjoy it; I have this tank too and love the dimensions. 



forrestcook said:


> I picked up an eheim canister filter for the tank which was again a little much but I'm working extra for the project so I got what I wanted.


Did you get the Eheim 2217? I'd recommend getting a second one. I too once thought only one would be needed based on the manufacturer's stated capacity, but found I had terrible detritus/mulm accumulation even with barely any livestock and regular vacuuming.



> Today I picked up five bags of ADA Amazonia light for the substrate. I don't like the idea of doing a dirted tank because I moved stuff a lot when I did this last time around... I've used ecocomplete in the past but always admired the look of aquasoil... so I treated myself again and got it!


That should be enough bags. It's well worth the investment. I would layer some power sand (or lava rock rubble) underneath.



> On to the fish! I will have a few sorts of rainbows, perhaps a goodied livebearer group, either green neon tetras or harlequin rasboras for the small fish and then a few oddballs yet to be determined. I've always wanted blue rams. Tossing around the idea of zebra otos instead of the usual fare but the price may change my mind.


Goodeids are generally best suited for a specialist breeding tank. What is the hardness of the water you will be using?



> No co2 in this tank. I've killed far too many fish that way. I may change my mind down the road but I want to make an effort to be successful without it. I'm super excited to be coming back! My three year old is thrilled to have fish also, going to get him a little chair to sit and stare!


I can strongly relate to this statement, having lost many nice fish to CO2 in the past, but strongly urge you to reconsider. I too, was once bitter at the dichotomy that presents so strongly in the American hobby: bright, lush CO2 tanks with no fish (or only the hardiest chain store survivors), or ugly bare low tech tanks with interesting livestock. But there is another way. Look into how the rest of the world (ADA and other Asians, Europeans) does it. You will see fish like Heckel discus, altum angels, and chocolate gouramis in CO2 tanks in the rest of the world. In the US? Forget about it! Let me know if you are more interested in this point.

CO2 makes a world of difference for running a healthy planted tank (good plant health, avoiding algae issues). Carbon is what plants use to incorporate into biomass; how do you expect them to do without sufficient levels? Even a lower light tank with undemanding plants will look exponentially better with just a low level of CO2 (this relates with what I alluded to above). It is possible to have CO2, lush plants, and happy livestock!


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Did you get the Eheim 2217? I'd recommend getting a second one. I too once thought only one would be needed based on the manufacturer's stated capacity, but found I had terrible detritus/mulm accumulation even with barely any livestock and regular vacuuming.
> 
> Goodeids are generally best suited for a specialist breeding tank. What is the hardness of the water you will be using?
> 
> I can strongly relate to this statement, having lost many nice fish to CO2 in the past, but strongly urge you to reconsider.


I have the eheim professional 4+ 600... rated to 160 gallons at 330gph. I understand the numbers are inflated but I will see how it goes for a while, I'll probably add a surface skimmer/powerhead if I develop that protein film.

I like some of the goodieds a lot, they aren't seen as often so I was thinking of putting some in as a secondary focus species. Is there a reason they can't coexist with other species? My water is pretty hard out of the tap, I haven't measured it but I'm in Arizona which has pretty hard water.

At least for the first establishment period of this tank, no CO2. I may reconsider down the road if I'm not seeing the growth I need but I also don't think I'm using particularly demanding plants in this setup so I think I'll be okay. I'm fine dosing excel etc. to add to the carbon in the tank.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

forrestcook said:


> I have the eheim professional 4+ 600... rated to 160 gallons at 330gph. I understand the numbers are inflated but I will see how it goes for a while, I'll probably add a surface skimmer/powerhead if I develop that protein film.


I'd still be open to adding a second filter; that's not much more than the 164 gallons at 254 gph the 2217 is rated at. With 2x 2217 on my 120 I have no protein film, and I do not need any extra skimmers or powerheads. On a good day the water surface looks like a (bubbly) mirror.




> I like some of the goodieds a lot, they aren't seen as often so I was thinking of putting some in as a secondary focus species. Is there a reason they can't coexist with other species? My water is pretty hard out of the tap, I haven't measured it but I'm in Arizona which has pretty hard water.


Basically all goodeids are endangered or even extinct in the wild, so really should be bred and maintained for conservation purposes. Furthermore they have small broods and long gestation times. Most other fish would be liable to predate the fry. If you're really interested in them many can be maintained in smaller tanks, even as little as 10 gallons.

However your hard tap water will greatly limit the fish you can keep with good longevity. Forget about green neons, blue rams, or zebra otos; if your tap water is as extremely hard as some of the examples from AZ I'd seen they'd be lucky to make it a year. Melanotaeniid rainbows may be a good choice. 

If you want to bypass this use remineralized RO/DI water. Most plants will also grow much better in soft water.




> At least for the first establishment period of this tank, no CO2. I may reconsider down the road if I'm not seeing the growth I need but I also don't think I'm using particularly demanding plants in this setup so I think I'll be okay. I'm fine dosing excel etc. to add to the carbon in the tank.


You would be surprised, even a tank of only crypts or ferns can blow your mind when a bit of CO2 is added. I recommend you look through Nature Aquarium: Complete Works 1985-2009. You will see many tanks with hardy, undemanding plants, with low CO2 injection rates, that are breathtaking. Yes the plants can grow healthily without CO2, but you will never see the lushness and superior condition. I think it would behoove you to run it from the start, even if just one or two bubbles per second. This is nowhere near enough to affect even the most sensitive livestock, but will make a noticeable difference for your plants. If you are concerned about livestock this would be a much better alternative than Excel (no DNA scrambling needed!).


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Basically all goodeids are endangered or even extinct in the wild, so really should be bred and maintained for conservation purposes. Furthermore they have small broods and long gestation times. Most other fish would be liable to predate the fry. If you're really interested in them many can be maintained in smaller tanks, even as little as 10 gallons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was planning on a smaller biocube or similar for the bedroom down the road, I may look into the goodieds then... or I may bypass the rainbows altogether if I find the right species. 

I've been thinking about an RO system for a while so that may happen down the road. A lot of the stuff I like is soft water dwelling unfortunately. Never liked the African cichlids or that would have been a great fit. 




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## Omar EAZi (Aug 5, 2015)

WoW!! looks like an awesome setup, I'm doing a 95Gallon tank soon, the tank is custom made, will be ready this Saturday.. 
Seems like you're not a carpet plant sort of guy from the looks of your older tank. I can't resist having a carpet plant in all of my tanks haha!! 
Good luck with your tank.. I want to see how it turns out. please keep us updated.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

forrestcook said:


> I was planning on a smaller biocube or similar for the bedroom down the road, I may look into the goodieds then... or I may bypass the rainbows altogether if I find the right species.
> 
> I've been thinking about an RO system for a while so that may happen down the road. A lot of the stuff I like is soft water dwelling unfortunately. Never liked the African cichlids or that would have been a great fit.


I highly recommend using RO water; all but one of my tanks use RO/DI. I'm in the same position as you. My tap water is liquid rock, but almost all my favorite fish are soft water species. For years I tried to justify it by telling myself the popular lie they'd adapt. To some degree this is true - they can live somewhat healthily for a while. But the longevity is not there, and they often die after some months for no apparent reason. Meanwhile tetras kept in proper soft water conditions can live for many years. The physiological basis for this is the hard water really strains their kidneys and excretory system.

Hard water makes it much more difficult to grow many plants as well, for various reasons I won't get into for now.


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## DanPlanted (Jun 15, 2015)

I have always been a fan of Current USA Satellite led lights. The ecoxotic ones were almost the same as the Plus Pro.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Hey follow Arizonan! So the LFS you are refering to, is that ANA (Arizona Nature Aquatics)? Also be warned, Ben has issues with selling soft water fish to those running tap water. I like his store, but just can't handle their smug attitude anymore. I've asked in the past about stocking my 125g tank and getting a bunch of fish ordered and his wife responded saying that they would not sell anyone that many fish if they didn't help setup your tank. Did they ask how I cycled my tank, or if I had a QT setup to handle the individual fish separately, nope not a once. And I can tell you that yes, now I do have a QT setup and I did Some people love them on the FB groups for our area, but besides their store and how nice it is, that's about all that I like of his store.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Yup - ANA. I like the store a lot but as with any brick and mortar, the hard goods can almost all be had for cheaper online. I'll probably buy some fish and specific plants there but most of my plants will hopefully come from this forum or the desert aquarist meetups. I bought my filter, tank and soil there, I really like having a local alternative to the big chains so I'll continue supporting him.

I need to shop around for an RO system I think. I just don't like the idea of wasting all that water, I've got to find something productive to do with it if I'm going to buy one. 

That's crazy that they wouldn't order you the fish... it's profit for them, I don't get that. 

Not on FB anymore, so I can't partake in any local groups there. Is there anything happening locally besides desert aquarist meetups?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Just a little FYI on the lights - I currently have a 75g tank (4' long) and am running a Satellite Plus Pro and a Satellite Plus. For the longest time I had a lot of crypts, swords and hygro and java fern. I found that I really needed to keep the Plus Pro at about 60% and the Plus at 80% power to keep BBA at bay. Given your desire to keep similar plants I figured I would offer the input. As for my crypts, in the last year I have probably given away over 100 plants - they just grow like wild fire in my tank. Hope your setup works out as well for you.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> Yup - ANA. I like the store a lot but as with any brick and mortar, the hard goods can almost all be had for cheaper online. I'll probably buy some fish and specific plants there but most of my plants will hopefully come from this forum or the desert aquarist meetups. I bought my filter, tank and soil there, I really like having a local alternative to the big chains so I'll continue supporting him.
> 
> I need to shop around for an RO system I think. I just don't like the idea of wasting all that water, I've got to find something productive to do with it if I'm going to buy one.
> 
> ...


Yeah I like their store too and was just kind of shocked by the response I got from them. Oh well their loss. I'm actually in contact with desert pets on 22nd about ordering the fish for me. Actually just sent the list to them last night. We'll see what they say when they see my list as it's like 50-100 fish, since they are mostly tetras. LOL. 

It's a bummer you aren't on FB as there are a few local fish groups on there. A while back I got tired of FB too and just unfollowed everything except my fish groups. There is another group mostly in PHX who also does monthly meetings. I picked up a few plants from there too for dirt cheap. To give you an idea. Plants are brought in little sandwich sized Ziploc bags and start auction price of $1 and went up to at most 5-6. I bought like $12 worth and had what I needed to get my tank going. https://www.azaquaticplants.com

Also depending upon what you want I have some plants I'll be able to trim to get you started too.

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> Yeah I like their store too and was just kind of shocked by the response I got from them. Oh well their loss. I'm actually in contact with desert pets on 22nd about ordering the fish for me. Actually just sent the list to them last night. We'll see what they say when they see my list as it's like 50-100 fish, since they are mostly tetras. LOL.
> 
> It's a bummer you aren't on FB as there are a few local fish groups on there. A while back I got tired of FB too and just unfollowed everything except my fish groups. There is another group mostly in PHX who also does monthly meetings. I picked up a few plants from there too for dirt cheap. To give you an idea. Plants are brought in little sandwich sized Ziploc bags and start auction price of $1 and went up to at most 5-6. I bought like $12 worth and had what I needed to get my tank going. https://www.azaquaticplants.com
> 
> ...




I'm actually a mod at azaquaticplants from back in the day, they never took it away from me. I'll probably hit up their meeting at some point, I used to bring a tooooon of plants there. I would make money and bring home new stuff, was always nice. 

I used to have a connection at a store long ago who would order me fish at cost, too bad those days are long past, trying to budget now!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> I'm actually a mod at azaquaticplants from back in the day, they never took it away from me. I'll probably hit up their meeting at some point, I used to bring a tooooon of plants there. I would make money and bring home new stuff, was always nice.
> 
> I used to have a connection at a store long ago who would order me fish at cost, too bad those days are long past, trying to budget now!
> 
> ...


Too funny that you were/are a mod there. Yeah it would be nice to get some deal on some wholesale fish for sure. 

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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm with you - do it right the first time. Buy nice or buy twice!


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Bought most of the lumber today, I'll start cutting tomorrow. Nothing super fancy, basic 2x4 frame skinned with plywood. Going to sand it down nice and smooth and paint it some shade of white that the wife chooses. Probably get some old cabinet doors to refinish for the front. The only "fancy" touch I'm thinking about is going to be a stained hardwood mantle around the front and sides to set things on. My wife assures me it'll look good. She gets to plan the outside of the tank, I called dibs on the inside . 

I'm waffling on the fish. Mature rainbows develop that humpback appearance which is just offputting to me... I'm not really sure if I want them anymore, the more tank videos I watch. I still really like the idea of a livebearer like a goodied or a wild type swordtail. 

If I actually get unsupervised time in the garage tomorrow I might get the frame done. I spent a lot of today clearing things out to make room for the project. 

I've been looking at fluval flex tanks for a small tank in the bedroom, I can't decide if it would be motivation or a distraction to interrupt this project with a small tank. 


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> Bought most of the lumber today, I'll start cutting tomorrow. Nothing super fancy, basic 2x4 frame skinned with plywood. Going to sand it down nice and smooth and paint it some shade of white that the wife chooses. Probably get some old cabinet doors to refinish for the front. The only "fancy" touch I'm thinking about is going to be a stained hardwood mantle around the front and sides to set things on. My wife assures me it'll look good. She gets to plan the outside of the tank, I called dibs on the inside .
> 
> I'm waffling on the fish. Mature rainbows develop that humpback appearance which is just offputting to me... I'm not really sure if I want them anymore, the more tank videos I watch. I still really like the idea of a livebearer like a goodied or a wild type swordtail.
> 
> ...


Good luck today! Hope you get lots done. I also agree on the rainbows, I like them small till they get that round body. Just not the fish for me. Glad I didn't get some that my wife initially wanted. LOL 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, Father's Day was a great success for my aquarium(s). I got a Fluval Flex 9 gallon all in one tank (new journal in my sig) and stuff to put in it. I got a late start on the cutting/building but I still got a fair bit done tonight. 

I'm not a woodworker, be warned. My tools were a mitre saw, a drill, a square and a 90 degree project clamp. This is what I've done so far. 










Cut all the lumber to my plan specs and labeled the pieces (I got confused last time I built a stand. It was not my finest hour). 










90 degree clamp was the MVP of the evening, made starting the framing much easier without the pieces squirreling away from each other as I put in the screws. 










Top all framed out










First leg all beefed out and supported. 










And this is how it sits tonight. I'm curious, for a 120 gallon tank, do I need to place a center brace on the long sides? If it matters at all, the tank will be skinned with plywood on three sides as well as the top. I may do a brace just to have something for the doors to close onto, I'll need to buy another 2x4 though. 


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## astex (Aug 13, 2009)

You shouldn't need a center brace at all. I would just add a tiny piece of wood at the top center for a door stop, or put in a magnet latch if your doors won't be larger than the opening.

Having the open center is a plus in so many ways


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

astex said:


> You shouldn't need a center brace at all. I would just add a tiny piece of wood at the top center for a door stop, or put in a magnet latch if your doors won't be larger than the opening.
> 
> 
> 
> Having the open center is a plus in so many ways




I have a friend who works as a structural engineer, he looked at some commercial stands and then looked at mine, he agreed that the center brace shouldn't be necessary. 

I like your idea about the door stop, I couldn't visualize how to make the doors close without the center brace. Going to try to get out to get one more sheet of plywood today to finish the skin and I will post some more photos!


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Sides and floor put on










"Ceiling" put on under the frame. The inner posts were just slightly above level with the outer rim so I couldn't put the top on the very top and have it sit on the outer bracing directly. I also didn't feel comfortable leaving glass accessible from inside of the stand with curious, sometimes destructive little kids in the house. This way I have a flat ceiling and the ability to mount whatever I want to it since I have ~3.5" of screw clearance above the plywood. 










This is two cans of the Kilz sealer. I will need at least one more for when the front goes on. Probably two to make it a thick coat. Also note the DJ power supply sitting on top, in very excited about that little gadget for water changes and stand lighting etc. 

I am stuck for the front opening. I can't decide on doors (where do I find some?) or a large panel held in place by magnets (which may warp down the road). 




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## Mathman (Apr 5, 2009)

Excellent progress!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The DJ power panel is awesome and I have two in my stand. LOL For the doors I had to build mine as they were hard to find and expensive for the size I needed. There should be some pics of how I did mine in my build thread. But I did a basic shaker style door using hardwood and plywood inlaid in the center. But I needed a router to give the notch in the hardwood for the plywood to lay in. My doors do lay 100% flat, so if you do build them watch for that problem. LOL

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Small construction update as I get a few hours a week to work on this thing...










Cut my birch panel to fit










Found some $8 cabinet doors on offerup that I sanded down...










And glued the loose corners back together. 










This is the cross section of the top trim. Two .5"x2" hobby boards from Home Depot glued and trim nailed into an "L" and then glued and trim nailed onto a piece of baseboard trim to create a decorative mantle around the top. 










I may try to put biscuits or dowels between the ply and the hobby board, otherwise nails and glue will hold it on. 










Carefully measured out the door hole and cut it with a circular saw and steady hands. Came out pretty darn good. 










Test fit of the trim. It's not 100% precise which I expected, there will be a little bit of sanding and filling at the corners before paint. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I think it looks fantastic. I commend you on your patience. I couldn't wait to get back into a tank once I had it. I lost a number of fish this time as I had hoped the tank would instant cycle with the seeded filters and substrate. Cost me about $80 in fish. Decided on stock yet?


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

*120 gallon comeback after a short six year break*



The Dude1 said:


> Decided on stock yet?




I'm still flip flopping, honestly. At the moment I'm anti rainbow, on the fence about angels (I guess they're just not exciting for me?) and not sure I can get the low temps for the goodieds. 

My little 9 gallon hovers around 76/77 with no heater but it's a covered system with a light and a pump all boxed in. I will have to check my average temp with the big tank and no heater to see where my temps land. I'm not interested in buying a chiller. 

I know I'll have some otos, maybe a bristle nose, I'd like a little school of mountain loaches since their personality is so huge. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I also really like the idea of cherry or Odessa barbs. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Dwarf cichlids, Congo Tetras, Denison Barbs, Emporer Tetras are my new thing. Are you wanting to do a large group or some center piece fish? I'm doing Apisto's, Emporer Tetras, and Rainbows.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

A little more work tonight...










These boards will support the hinges and are cut tight to floor and ceiling as well as being fastened in place by the angled metal. 










First door on! What is missing is door number two being put on and then realizing that they are about 1/16 to 1/8 inch too close. They don't shut well... you can mash them closed but when I paint it'll all just rub off. I had to get creative and move my brace boards outwards, but you can't move a screw hole 1/8 inch, it'll be a screw oval. 

I flipped the metal to the other side but the braces were too large to fit. So I had to make some modifications. 










Once the braces were trimmed down and I had spread a fine mist of sharp metal shavings across my garage, the doors went back on. 










Success!










Mocked up with the top trim. Next I have to cut all the bottom trim. I plan on moving the stand inside once the trim is cut and sanded to fasten it. The trim will be the structurally weakest part so I don't want to crack any by lifting on it. I plan on fastening trim, wood filling, finish sanding and paint inside. 




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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Brought the stand inside to finish up trim, putty and paint... my helper thinks it's his new fort, he's already excluding his sister - a strict no girls allowed policy. 


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> Brought the stand inside to finish up trim, putty and paint... my helper thinks it's his new fort, he's already excluding his sister - a strict no girls allowed policy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Good work buddy! Looking good! Before you know it you will be forced to figure out your stocking!!

On a side note, I had to look at the rest of your pictures as I thought that was my old house over in Gladden Farms! The same 1/3 bond tile lay and a similar round entry way along with the wall colors. LOL


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> Good work buddy! Looking good! Before you know it you will be forced to figure out your stocking!!
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note, I had to look at the rest of your pictures as I thought that was my old house over in Gladden Farms! The same 1/3 bond tile lay and a similar round entry way along with the wall colors. LOL




I'm a bit further east in Oro Valley, still getting settled after moving in... it's normal to have packed boxes still two months after moving in right? 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Got some more work done, also ran into a few issues. 










Trim mocked up in place










This corner went well. All fastened and glued. 










This corner did not do so well. Misaligned mitre and a chunk out of the side where a nail hit a screw and then wouldn't pull back out... it's still in there, I had to grind it off with a dremel. This side should look okay after putty and paint but it sure bothers me right now. 










All the trim has been installed and the doors have been leveled. I'm ready now for putty and paint!



















LED strip lighting for working underneath the stand. It's a bit cooler than I had hoped for but it's better than a dark stand! Picking up paint and putty tonight after dinner. 



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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> I'm a bit further east in Oro Valley, still getting settled after moving in... it's normal to have packed boxes still two months after moving in right?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah that's more of where I'm at too now. We had stuff in either rooms or the 3rd car separate garage for a few months. Nothing to worry about! 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Small update, in the middle of priming and prepping for final paint!










First coat of primer is on, doors had to come off to not miss any spots. The primer is killz, which is the same stuff I sprayed on the inside... when I'm done priming the outside, I'm rolling some inside again to even out the coat. 










My cable management came today... I'm probably a little too happy about this purchase. The "lid" (in this orientation, the floor) slides off to allow access to the empty interior and slotted walls. Fold up your cords and vent them out where they plug in to the power supply! Something like $25 on amazon. Well worth the money for me. 










And while I work the little one is trying to learn to walk! 











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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

A large school of fully grown congos is an incredible sight. Just be sure to get some females, too- they are not as flashy as the males, but the males color up a lot more and they fins get longer when there are females present.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Update time! Almost ready for water!










Doors are on and level, paint is done!










Tank is on!










Baby for scale...










Finnex planted+ 24/7 over my full length glass tops. Due to the wide center brace, I'm sure I'll lose a bit of light dead center from overlapping glass. Probably have to do a second light down the road. 










I have some slight gaps under the front due to the tile heights, she pulls them out as fast as I put them in. I will of course trim them out of sight when they are seated. 










The layout underneath. It's a 20g quarantine, I could probably downsize to a 10g and place it back to front to save space. I haven't decided yet. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

So I had originally intended to use rocks for a hardscape in this tank. Unfortunately the rocks I bought the first time got sprayed by my bug guy since I had left them out front. 

I went back and bought different rocks and my geologist brother told me they were limestone. 

I could have gone back a third time but I just decided to do wood instead. I didn't save any money here, it wasn't cheap. I'm happy with the pieces I got though. 










And there was something living in them before, too... probably a lizard or something? Had to be small to fit in the holes but the eggs were a decent size. 




















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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Good looking stand build - nice to see somebody else doing crown molding along the top


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Looking good! Did you get the wood down at Ben's shop or from one of the big box stores? 

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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Really interesting pieces of driftwood! I also love the power management system. Going to pick up a couple for my tanks.
Have you thought any more on stock? Do you still have your CO2 components? I know you mentioned staying low tech... but man... It's slow and very limiting in terms of stock... 

I've got Rainbows, Apisto's, and Emporer Tetras in a 75 that im setting up. I'm hoping to get a breeding pair of Apisto's. 
Right now I've got 
2 Bosemani
2 Millenium
2 Goyder River
4 Furcata Rainbows 
It's a very active tank. I think CO2 in these big tanks is alot more forgiving as long as you aren't pushing it to the limit.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> Looking good! Did you get the wood down at Ben's shop or from one of the big box stores?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Bought the wood from Ben. Waiting on a plant list from him and I'll be ordering a bunch of plants asap. I'm picking up some crypts from @johnson18 soon hopefully as well and then the desert aquarist society meeting on the 12th... I'm antsy to get started!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> Bought the wood from Ben. Waiting on a plant list from him and I'll be ordering a bunch of plants asap. I'm picking up some crypts from @johnson18 soon hopefully as well and then the desert aquarist society meeting on the 12th... I'm antsy to get started!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


There's always the AAPE meeting up in PHX that you could get some too. Plus depending upon what you want others might have it locally for much cheaper or free from a trimming of their tank. 

Did you ever post a list of what you want? 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Really interesting pieces of driftwood! I also love the power management system. Going to pick up a couple for my tanks.
> Have you thought any more on stock? Do you still have your CO2 components? I know you mentioned staying low tech... but man... It's slow and very limiting in terms of stock...
> 
> I've got Rainbows, Apisto's, and Emporer Tetras in a 75 that im setting up. I'm hoping to get a breeding pair of Apisto's.
> ...




I'm low tech for the immediate future due to price etc. this build has gone over budget in nearly every aspect... I'm scared to add it up! I have an old co2 tank that is out of date and ugly, so I would have to buy the whole shebang again. If I do, I'll do a reactor style setup on the output of the filter. 

As far as stock, I really should figure it out. I'm still torn and I've been procrastinating since there isn't even water yet, much less a cycle. For the feature species - My wife loves angels, I want livebearers (leaning towards a wild type sword). 

I will probably do a decent sized group of harlequin rasboras as a dither school, I've always loved those. 

I'll probably pick up some pea puffers down the road when the snails inevitably get out of control. 

Amanos and some variety of neocardina, a local guy breeds blues. 

And I'm thinking about keeping some endlers in my small tank and breeding them occasionally, so I'm sure I will have a bunch of males in there eventually. I plan on keeping the females in the QT to maintain the cycle along with some guppy grass or whatever plant does well in a bare bottom. 

Since I went with wood, otos and a pleco. I've had ABNs before, I'd like something different. 

And my favorite fish ever, farlowella acus stick catfish. I think I can manage two in this tank for sure. 


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Whenever you get close to wanting to start your tank since I'm down the road I could help you out by seeding your filter on my tank if you want. 

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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

What are the good LFS in Phoenix?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

geektom said:


> What are the good LFS in Phoenix?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Neither of us are up there. You could always post here and ask that question. 

https://m.facebook.com/groups/448784398660545?ref=bookmarks

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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

chayos00 said:


> Neither of us are up there. You could always post here and ask that question.
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/448784398660545?ref=bookmarks
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




My mistake- I though you were.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> Whenever you get close to wanting to start your tank since I'm down the road I could help you out by seeding your filter on my tank if you want.


That would be pretty cool, actually. I bought an extra box of eheim ceramic media, do you have room to seed that somewhere? I could bring it over in a mesh bag if you have room (you have a sump, right?).



chayos00 said:


> ...depending upon what you want others might have it locally for much cheaper or free from a trimming of their tank.
> 
> Did you ever post a list of what you want?


I am planning on having a bunch of crypts, some red tiger lotus, some swords, hygro pinnatifida and some red ludwigia. I'll pick up some anubias or buce as well to throw into the driftwood. If I do moss, I really like the shape of fissidens. I'll probably have some red root floaters in there as well but I already own some of those in the 9 gallon.

I'm not a big stickler for species, but I like some of the brown/bronze colored crypts, the red of the tiger lotus and the huge green leaves of the swords. I need a big flowy plant for the background, too... maybe crypt balansae or vals.

I will be picking up some plants from @johnson18 TOMORROW MORNING, so water is gonna go in! So excited. :grin2:


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> That would be pretty cool, actually. I bought an extra box of eheim ceramic media, do you have room to seed that somewhere? I could bring it over in a mesh bag if you have room (you have a sump, right?).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, got a sump. Plenty of space. Would just need to salt dip it for snails, as I've got a few of those pesky buggers! But have lots of MTS for the sand that I need to keep it healthy. I have some crypts too that I constantly trim from my 10g that I can help ya with too. 

I've been trying to grow vals too, but they aren't working so well after like 3 months yet. Still hoping they take over the back and left side of my tank. 

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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

chayos00 said:


> I've been trying to grow vals too, but they aren't working so well after like 3 months yet. Still hoping they take over the back and left side of my tank.




What types of vals are you using? I've got a few huge leopard vals you can have if Forrest doesn't want them. There's another local guy that has them growing like crazy. He brings them to the DAS auctions by the plastic shopping bag full! You could easily get some from him.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Tank is full! A few plants are in, the main bulk of plants will be coming in next Tuesday. Ordering the following species:

Hygro pinnatifida
Hygro corymbosa
Val spiralis
Ludwigia repens red rubin
Sag subulata
C. Balansae
C. Lucens
C. Usteriana red
Stauro repens
E. Amazonicus
E. Yeni
N. Rubra (lotus plant)










My helpers



















Lights are dim because I'm using 24/7 mode and it's 7pm in these pics. Tank is pretty and huge, now I just need to be comfortable in the construction of my stand. The reality of 120 gallons of damaging water and dangerous weight plus thick glass is setting in. I know in my head it should be fine, but Im second guessing myself a lot. The fact that I had to use shims at all bothers me but I'm still trying to blame the tile floor. 


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Love it! Looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.

But how do you reach the light switch behind the tank!!:grin2:


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## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

forrestcook said:


> I have an old co2 tank that is out of date and ugly, so I would have to buy the whole shebang again.


My CO2 tank was out of date when I started up again, but they traded it out for a full one without even looking at the date. Maybe you own yours and get it filled, but I do it where I just swap it out. Had not swapped one out in 10 years and they didn't even look at it.


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

Looks awesome! Congratulations!


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Greggz said:


> Love it! Looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.
> 
> But how do you reach the light switch behind the tank!!:grin2:



Aha! That was a concern during the planning stage. I'll be putting on a black background later on so you can't see through to the wall. I CAN reach the switches but it takes a little effort. One switch is to a wall outlet, no idea which one so we just leave it on always. two switches are for the fan (light and fan) but we have a remote for the fan so we just use that. and the fourth switch was the tough one, it controls the main room lights and is the only switch that does so. I installed a TP Link wifi switch which I control with my Amazon Echo... "Alexa, turn on the lights" etc. I have it hooked up to various other devices as well, but that was my foresight process to placing the tank semi-permanently. But in the case that things get disconnected, I can still reach everything.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Testing on day three reveals the following:
PH: 6(!)
Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: not tested, likely 5 like my tap. 
Gh: 3
Kh: 0

Going through some crypt melt so far, trimmed off the dying leaves tonight. I found a snail buddy that came in on the plants, poor guy has to endure the cycle. I'm thinking about dosing some alkaline buffer to bring up the ph a bit. 6 seems really low, even for aquasoil. I think long term since I don't want to do RO I'll deplete the buffering capability of the AS anyhow. Then I can have consistent tap water with a KH/GH of 7/7 and ph of roughly 7.5-7.8. Should work fine for swordtails and neocardinas etc. 


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> Testing on day three reveals the following:
> PH: 6(!)
> Ammonia: 0.5ppm
> Nitrite: 0ppm
> ...


I was never able to get a 6g fluval edge to cycle with using AS for substrate. The low pH does something with the ammonia cycle where it pretty much stalls out somewhere under 7.0 (for me anyways, theoretically closer to 6 though). After like 6 months I switched to black sand and boom, cycle working now. LOL That was with Oro Valley water at my work. 

Hope you like snails, as if you find one there will be more.... Happened to me and now I have pea puffers and zebra loaches in my tank to control their population. Been working well as I don't see any during the day anymore. 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

*Forrest's 120 gallon livebearer jungle (in progress)*

Tested water again today, I've been dosing the Seachem alkaline buffer a few times now to bring up the KH and PH a bit.

GH: 3
KH: 4
PH: 6.8
Ammonia: 1ppm
Nitrite: 0.25ppm
Nitrate: not tested yet, don't see a point to until the Ammonia and Nitrite start going down.

Pretty happy with the KH and PH improvement, Though I wouldn't mind seeing the KH a bit higher still. I'm going to do a water change in a day or two and check again. I assume the AS doesn't buffer the KH/PH instantly and I just dosed alkaline buffer last night so we will see how long it takes to go down which I assume it will.

The plants have gone full melt mode, it's worrying me a bit... a few crypts lost ALL of their leaves so far and some are still on that path. I'm hoping the roots hold fast and I see new growth soon. About half of the vals melted as well. I think the few red root floaters I put in just straight up died. Anubias, buce and stems seem to be doing fine so far. My big plant order comes in tuesday, we will see how that all goes. I expect a lot more melt since many of the plants are probably going to be emersed growth. I also want to start my QT tank so I can seed the filter in anticipation of livestock.

I'm a little stuck with what to do long term with the lid on this setup. Since the center brace is a pane of glass mounted underneath the black plastic, a lid has to be full length. The lid I bought is glass, which becomes very heavy at four foot by one foot for each half. I also have no way of leaving the top open without leaning the heavy glass on my thin LED light. For now I have removed the lid which has dropped my tank temp by a good 1.5 degrees, eliminates condensation on the bottom of the lid allowing more light through and creates great access with the penalty of increased evaporation and more of that fish tank smell.

I suppose I COULD make a canopy for this tank but I am not thrilled with more construction. I would say it's a last resort. I'm not inherently opposed to having an open top on this tank, my kids might toss stuff in and I might occasionally have a jumper but beyond that it's really just a problem if the smell bothers my wife. It's not overpowering, but its that wet earthy smell when you're right next to it.

I haven't planned on dosing much of anything beyond excel since I have the AS but this tank needs to drink a LOT of excel. I'm looking into buying and mixing up dry ferts.


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## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

I've been watching the progress on this tank.... I have been out of planted tanks for a year since moving to Utah. 
I'm hoping to get a 120 gallon but before I get one we need to get a water softener and RO filter before continuing on with a tank.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

For the pH and kh, use baking soda. I use this all the time with my hot tub. Did it when I had AS in that 6g tank before I swapped it out. Also let me know if you still want to seed your media in my sump, just shoot me a text. 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

kalawai2000 said:


> I've been watching the progress on this tank.... I have been out of planted tanks for a year since moving to Utah.
> I'm hoping to get a 120 gallon but before I get one we need to get a water softener and RO filter before continuing on with a tank.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro




I guess it just depends what you want to do with the tank. I am on a mission to eliminate the low pH and GH/KH that aqua soil gave me. I'm trying to get my hard water back! I won't be keeping tetras or other Softwater species in this tank for the most part, live bearers prefer the harder water.


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## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

We have really hard water here in Utah... I'll send you some. Lolololol 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Plant order came in, pre melt photos!










Full tank shot










Tied my java fern down to some wood so I don't rot the rhizome. 










Ludwigia red










Sag. Subulata










Stauro repens - I'm going to try to make a short bushy carpet with this front and center. 










I have three of these nymphea lotus bulbs in here. One of my all time favorite plants. 










Crypt lutea- patches between each of the three large pieces of wood. 










Hygro corymbosa - nice bushy fast growing stem. 










Crypt balansae in the val corner. I'm hoping everything in this corner will grow tall and flowy. 

Also a patch of hygro pinnatifida on the right side, it's ratty looking but I'm hoping it turns around soon. 




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## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

Looking great!


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Oops, crypt lucens, not crypt lutea. 


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## finfan (Jun 16, 2008)

very nice set up, its nice that you were able to do a lot of DIY, I am neither good with tools or have the time, but always wanted to, will be following along your journey, very cool driftwood selection


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Ammonia and nitrite are both at .5ppm... I guess I should start planning for fish at some point


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> Ammonia and nitrite are both at .5ppm... I guess I should start planning for fish at some point
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Maybe this media I'm cycling for you may not be needed as much. LOL 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

The tank now supports life! I have a small school of 14 Rasbora Espei in there, they're swimming around usually in one or two groups. I think I'll add more down the road, one of my favorite schooling fish.

I'm trying to decide on the other residents. I decided on my feature fish, I am in touch with Greg Sage over at Select Aquatics and will be buying some of his Ilyodon Furcidens. I'm very excited to have finally decided! My wife is still a fan of angels and was a little sad to find out they won't be living together... she'll recover though.

I don't know what else to put in here though... I like mountain loaches because they perch on things and have a big personality... which makes me also consider some freshwater gobies like knight gobies or something like that.

I like cherry barbs a lot, the bright red will compliment the brown and pink of the rasboras and will contrast against the yellow of the furcidens. My LFS is getting some of those in soon and I'm planning on adding some into the mix.

Down the road if/when the snails get out of hand I will be getting a few pea puffers.

I want a few farlowella acus instead of the typical pleco in here but I want the tank to mature a bit first... I need the wood to grow some food. Otos as well, though I'm comfortable adding them sooner.

Amanos are next though, for sure!


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

forrestcook said:


> I guess I should start planning for fish at some point



Fish are overrated. 



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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The general consensus is that pea puffers make poor community fish. They are super aggressive toward other fish. Botia loaches or assassin snails would be a better fit. Assasin snails are so cool. I'm hoping I reach the pest snail point soon so I can add a couple. Hopefully they don't bother nerites.


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## viwwo (Jan 15, 2010)

johnson18 said:


> Fish are overrated.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Put a cat in it! 




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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*120 gallon comeback after a short six year break*



viwwo said:


> Put a cat in it!


Cats are even worse! [emoji849]


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> The general consensus is that pea puffers make poor community fish. They are super aggressive toward other fish. Botia loaches or assassin snails would be a better fit. Assasin snails are so cool. I'm hoping I reach the pest snail point soon so I can add a couple. Hopefully they don't bother nerites.


I've got a tank with 4 pea puffers and CPD's (celestial pearl danios) and they have never messed with them. I also just put 4 in my 125g and so far they aren't messing with anything in that tank. 



viwwo said:


> Put a cat in it!


Don't you mean, Cat FISH? LOL


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> I've got a tank with 4 pea puffers and CPD's (celestial pearl danios) and they have never messed with them. I also just put 4 in my 125g and so far they aren't messing with anything in that tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The only cat I have is around 25lbs, there wouldn't be room for fish...




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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

forrestcook said:


> The only cat I have is around 25lbs, there wouldn't be room for fish...



I'd like to see that. [emoji23] A 25lb cat does not fill a 120g tank! 



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## viwwo (Jan 15, 2010)

Your little baby girl is like 20lbs and she looks like she will be happy in that tank. Your car will fit just fine. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Processed a bit to look like a painting... I love harlequin rasboras. 










Four amanos so far, many more to come. 

Experiencing some melt so far, nothing too bad. Definitely noticing the different growth for the emersed/submersed transition. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I had a rasbora jumper this morning. Got me thinking about what may have caused it so I started reading a bit. Turns out, these rasboras like conditions softer and more acidic than I'm willing to go, they also have a temperature bottom of 72-74 degrees (this tank hovers between 70-72). 

I'm a little irritated that I didn't read about them before buying them. I'm now chasing them with a tiny 4" net in a massive tank to move them all to my heated QT to await the next local fish meeting. 

I picked up some cherry barbs and a few half banded loaches today. I might pick up some white clouds down the road to fill the mid-upper vacancy from the rasboras. 


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> I had a rasbora jumper this morning. Got me thinking about what may have caused it so I started reading a bit. Turns out, these rasboras like conditions softer and more acidic than I'm willing to go, they also have a temperature bottom of 72-74 degrees (this tank hovers between 70-72).
> 
> I'm a little irritated that I didn't read about them before buying them. I'm now chasing them with a tiny 4" net in a massive tank to move them all to my heated QT to await the next local fish meeting.
> 
> ...


I'd take them but being I'm tap water as well, not much of a difference for them except my warmer water temps. With adding my covers to the tank I'm seeing about 78°F now in the tank with no heater running.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

My nymphea bulbs are growing! I put the biggest one up front in the right 1/3 of the tank, lots of leaves but they're all still hugging the bulb. The roots are shooting down into the soil, I'm anticipating some leaves shooting up soon!










And from the left 1/3, the smallest bulb is shooting up a leaf already! I took this photo last night, the leaf is bigger and taller noticeably already. I love these plants. 

The cherry barbs are all healthy save for one with a clamped tail fin who is in the QT waiting to work it out. They don't seem to eat very eagerly that I've seen, a far cry from the rasboras I had before. They must be eating something, they're active and plump, I assume they graze off of the bottom when I'm not looking. They are entertaining while they occupy the lower 1/3, navigating plants and driftwood as they chase each other!




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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I also did my first trim and replant last week. Doubled my s. Repens stems that are now growing close, clustered leaves. Doubled up the red ludwigia and the hygro pinnatifida as well. The crypt. Balansae stopped melting and has put up a decent amount of new growth, it'll be a great addition when it gets taller. 

No visible new growth with the chain swords or sag., they aren't melting either though so I just assume they're slow. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

forrestcook said:


> I had a rasbora jumper this morning. Got me thinking about what may have caused it so I started reading a bit. Turns out, these rasboras like conditions softer and more acidic than I'm willing to go, they also have a temperature bottom of 72-74 degrees (this tank hovers between 70-72).
> 
> I'm a little irritated that I didn't read about them before buying them. I'm now chasing them with a tiny 4" net in a massive tank to move them all to my heated QT to await the next local fish meeting.
> 
> ...




I might be interested



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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

johnson18 said:


> I might be interested
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I'll be bringing them to the meeting next Sunday to auction. I think I have 13. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

This one particular nymphea bulb has one big tall leaf, nothing else is growing tall off of any of the three bulbs... a little odd, I'm hoping the others take off soon and give me some leaves in the middle of the column. 










One of my four half banded loaches










My little crop of hygro pinnatifida, growing well but just a bit yellow. What sort of deficiency am I seeing here? I can't believe nitrate due to the aquasoil but maybe potassium? Or does this plant just grow yellow/red under different light?










The s. Repens all shortened and replanted, growing nice and tight now. 










The sag. really isn't filling in. I'm thinking about buying a bunch more to skip the sparse phase. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The tank looks fantastic!!


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

*Forrest's 120 gallon planted goodeid tank*

Went to my local fish club meeting today, picked up some new plants and sold a few things. I wasn't thrilled with how the lily plants were turning out for this tank so I pulled them and sold them. I also sold the harlequin rasboras to some folks with (hopefully) warmer tanks. 

I bought some anubias, buce, crypts and stems for this tank as well as some Riccia and subwassertang for the nine gallon. I was hoping to catch my LFS on the way back to buy a bunch of white clouds but I was about 15 minutes too late . I'll pick some up a little later this week. 










I have a new fish buddy in the tank - a farlowella acus stick catfish. Love these guys, so cool and primitive looking. 










FTS prior to the meeting 










FTS after the meeting, some pretty decent sized anubias in there now!




















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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Your tank is looking good, Forrest. Those were some great looking Anubias today. If you point them in a good direction & let them grow, they'll just keep going. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I sat and took some pictures and I was happy with this one, figured I would share!


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Baby guppies/endlers are tasty to everyone, including parents. Once mom's pregnant place her in a tank where she can have the babies. When babies are born, remove mom to the tank where males are. Either raise the babies in that tank or allow them to grow larger enough to transfer to a separate tank, which then allows you to move mom back in once she is ready to give birth again. It requires a couple extra tanks along with the display tank(your 120) where the males live & the females get knocked up.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, I don't have much to update yet, despite my efforts. I'm still waiting to buy the ilyodon furcidens from select aquatics, he won't ship until my daytime temps are below 90 degrees. Still a little ways off, unfortunately. 

I've been trying to pick up some white clouds for three weeks or so without any luck. I "ordered" some through petco but they brought in some dirty looking yellow ones and have been utterly absent with communications. My favorite LFS has great quality and usually has them in stock but is closed on Mondays which is my best day off. I need to make it a point to get out there next weekend and skip the petco people altogether. 

I have a total of 12 cherry barbs, eight half banded loaches, one farlowella stick catfish and eight amano shrimp at this point. I did a little more trimming to remove some melt. I've also started dosing PPS pro from green leaf aquatics, hoping I'll see a little boost to growth from that as well. I'd like to buy some more dwarf sag. To fill in my sparse foreground more quickly. 






































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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

I guess they are already gone but for what it is worth harlequin rasboras should be perfectly fine with your hardness and pH. They are pretty adaptable to a fairly wide range. I keep mine in tap water and I think it is between 15-18 dGH. They are pretty tough too. I have been using them as starter fish for tanks for years. Sometimes fish just get spooked and jump. 

Anyway looking forward to seeing how your tank progresses.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Triport said:


> I guess they are already gone but for what it is worth harlequin rasboras should be perfectly fine with your hardness and pH. They are pretty adaptable to a fairly wide range. I keep mine in tap water and I think it is between 15-18 dGH. They are pretty tough too. I have been using them as starter fish for tanks for years. Sometimes fish just get spooked and jump.
> 
> Anyway looking forward to seeing how your tank progresses.


It was the temperature that put me over the edge with the rasboras... I feel like fish are more adaptable (to a point) with PH and hardness but that temperature is a bigger deal. When I found out that my typical temp (72-74) was at or below the bottom typical range for harleuins I decided to move away from them. I'm happy to have something different though, I've always thought white clouds were super pretty and I'm happy to get the chance to have them! If I ever turn this tank into a warmer water habitat, I will likely do angels and rasboras again. Love me some rasboras!

In the 9 gallon tank in my signature, I'm looking at adding some micro rasboras to the tank, rasboras really are a special species, I've personally always liked the types of fish I've found in that family as opposed to tetras.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I happened to be in the area of my favorite LFS today and picked up a few new friends for the tanks!

14 or 15 white clouds, I lost count. They're stressed from the trip but they're very pretty fish, I look forward to the end of their QT stay so I can introduce them into the big tank! These are the last other species before my goodeids finally ship out! Temps are getting cooler and I'm getting excited!




















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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I noticed the white clouds there a few days ago. They looked great! Nice to see they went to a good home! 

It's great seeing the next generation showing interest in aquariums! I know mine was used by my parents to spark my interest in many different science topics. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

johnson18 said:


> It's great seeing the next generation showing interest in aquariums!



My youngest (pictured) loves to watch and point but wants to play in the water, my oldest who is almost four is eager to help wherever he can, especially to feed and talk to the fish. The farlowella gets a good night from him each night. 



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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I put a bunch of live blackworms into the tank today, the fish are all fat and happy right now. I put more than could be eaten on purpose to seed the tank with a small colony of worms. My hope is that the worms will add an extra bit of sustainable grazing food for the fish long term. Some are already hanging out half in the substrate waving around... the fat loaches are staring at them with no motivation to eat. If that's how well they "hide", I'll have to re-seed in no time.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> I put a bunch of live blackworms into the tank today, the fish are all fat and happy right now. I put more than could be eaten on purpose to seed the tank with a small colony of worms. My hope is that the worms will add an extra bit of sustainable grazing food for the fish long term. Some are already hanging out half in the substrate waving around... the fat loaches are staring at them with no motivation to eat. If that's how well they "hide", I'll have to re-seed in no time.


I wondered about doing something similar like bloodworms too. My scuds I got at the last meeting are growing in number too. I really do like the idea of a self sustainable food source vs a dry or frozen food source. Where did you get the worms? 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

The guy who runs cichlid lovers is in Tucson, Ben recommended him. He lives near where the fish club meets


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> The guy who runs cichlid lovers is in Tucson, Ben recommended him. He lives near where the fish club meets
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Okay, I think that would be Allen.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

*Forrest's 120 gallon planted goodeid tank*










Got something in the mail...










Five juvenile Ilyodon Furcidens from Greg Sage over at select aquatics! My temps were finally low enough to ship these guys and I’m very happy to finally have some goodeids in my goodeid tank. 

They acclimated well, and are active throughout the tank, swimming happily with the cherry barbs and white clouds. 

I have had one casualty in the tank so far, an intact looking otocinclus was belly up on the bottom this morning. Not a fat belly but plump. Not sure what happened. 

I also added a Siamese algae eater as I’ve been getting a fair bit of BBA and four nerites for my GSA. My house has a bunch of windows which is great for an open, airy feeling to the space but not so great for my algae. 

My “final” stock list is as follows:

5 Ilyodon Furcidens (more when they breed)
15 white clouds
12 cherry barbs 
8 schistura savona - half banded loaches
8 amano shrimp
1 farlowella acus stick catfish
3 otocinclus catfish
4 nerite snails

And probably a fair number of black worms living in the substrate. I’ll post better pics of the furcidens when I get a chance, a few of them already colored up a bit with some yellow fins. 


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

forrestcook said:


> Got something in the mail...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad you finally got the fish you have been wanting! Let me know how the SAE does with BBA, I'm still getting some even though turning the lights down and lowering my PAR. 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> Glad you finally got the fish you have been wanting! Let me know how the SAE does with BBA, I'm still getting some even though turning the lights down and lowering my PAR.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




He has been in there a day and I have seen him picking at algae every time I’ve walked by the tank. I’m happy so far, even if he doesn’t eliminate it I’m sure he will help. I’ve got h2o2 on standby if he doesn’t solve the problem. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

https://youtu.be/tz8_IxU3Yyg


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I still need to get the tripod out since the furcidens are home now but this one looks pretty good for a quickie FTS!


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Wow Forrest!! Your tank is really beginning to show its potential! It looks great. The Trout goodieds in the video seem like cool fish. 


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Tank is still doing well, the hygro sunset is getting taller, I’m just about finished spreading it out horizontally and ready to let it go vertical. I bought a bunch of dwarf sag off of reddit but it came in melted... usps delayed delivery and I think it froze in CO. All of the fish seem to be doing well, the goodeids are happy and healthy!

The only new resident is a single pompom crab that I got with a friend when we split shipping on a bunch of stuff. I started with FIVE across my three tanks and this is the only one left. I really hope he goes the distance but with my record of 80% mortality in the first week I’m not holding my breath. I feel bad ordering them without researching them first, it really was an impulse buy. 

I just love this tank. It’s everything I’ve wanted for years and I’m so happy that I’ve got it!











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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Got any updates? 

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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I lost track of this thread for a long time, The tank is still up, though it has had some changes. The Ilyodon Furcidens started wasting away and I lost a few of the starting lineup. Before they all died, I gave the last few to a local store owner in hopes that they would do better in his small ponds. I'm not sure of their status anymore. There have been more roster changes than that as well... 

The hygro pinnatifida died out, not sure why. The hygro sunset is still a weed and needs constant trimming. The foreground is all dwarf sag and chain sword, back wall has several types of extra large swords as well as a brand new madagascar lace. Crypts are filling in nicely. The fish in the tank are currently:

four of my remaining original cherry barbs
two dwarf puffers
35 rasbora espei
one bristlenose pleco
a pair of nigerian black kribensis
three philippine blue marble angels (trying to find more)
two siamese algae eaters

Of course this means the tank is no longer a cool water tank, it stays at 78 currently. I also bought a co2 system so this is now "high tech" as well, though my light hasn't changed. I'll find a recent picture to put up here... and I guess I have to edit the title again!


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Thanks for the update. Been following your youtube channel as well.

You are one of the few hobbyist who has a video log as well as a journal on the new Amazonia Light soil. There aren't many around on the web.

How's the soil holding up? What's your PH levels before CO2 injection? 6.0?

I remembered you had some shrimps in your tank. Have they bred?


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

I believe last time I checked my tap it was 7.5. I just tested the water right now (co2 off, airstone on for about three hours) and I've got 6.8. I know it used to be lower but the buffering capability will wear off over time. The amanos are still doing fine, I don't believe I've ever lost one other than one jumper. The various cherries I release in there from time to time almost certainly get eaten. There are just too many predators in this tank. The angels and kribs are pretty aware of what's up in there. I pulled up a plant once and found a berried female but I can't remember ever seeing a cherry in there otherwise.


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

forrestcook said:


> I believe last time I checked my tap it was 7.5. I just tested the water right now (co2 off, airstone on for about three hours) and I've got 6.8. I know it used to be lower but the buffering capability will wear off over time. The amanos are still doing fine, I don't believe I've ever lost one other than one jumper. The various cherries I release in there from time to time almost certainly get eaten. There are just too many predators in this tank. The angels and kribs are pretty aware of what's up in there. I pulled up a plant once and found a berried female but I can't remember ever seeing a cherry in there otherwise.


Thank you for sharing. PH 6.8 is where it's at I think. On the ADA website, it said PH6.78 or thereabouts. The buffering is still good seeing that you are using tap water of PH7.5 for over a year now. It's a large tank, so I believe using RO water isn't that viable.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Glad to see an update from you Forrest! I was beginning to wonder if you may have fallen off the fish addiction! LOL FYI the DAS meeting is on Sunday, depending where I'm at with fixing my truck tomorrow, I may or may not make it.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> Glad to see an update from you Forrest! I was beginning to wonder if you may have fallen off the fish addiction! LOL FYI the DAS meeting is on Sunday, depending where I'm at with fixing my truck tomorrow, I may or may not make it.




I’ve got other plans unfortunately. I’ve been out of town for the last two and I’ve got a work function for this one. I need to get out there - I have tons of shrimp to sell. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nigerian black Kribs?! Pics?? So the kribs and Angel's are working? I've done Angel's and Bolivian Rams before. It was an awesome tank


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Nigerian black Kribs?! Pics?? So the kribs and Angel's are working? I've done Angel's and Bolivian Rams before. It was an awesome tank


I'll try to find some older ones and put them up. They aren't super dark, but they are super colorful. They were very outgoing at first and even had some babies shortly after being introduced into the tank. The female developed a parasite on her eye a month ago or so and I had to set up a 10 gallon to medicate her. Once I reintroduced her, sans parasite, she has been hiding ever since. she has fishy PTSD I guess... two weeks and I have seen her maybe three times.

The angels and kribs don't pay any attention to each other at all so far. The male is still outgoing and competes for food with them. The only aggression in the tank is currently angel on angel. Trying to source more of the same for a total of six in the tank.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Nigerian black Kribs?! Pics?? So the kribs and Angel's are working? I've done Angel's and Bolivian Rams before. It was an awesome tank























And one of the other couples in the tank...










And finally my bristlenose pleco.












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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Compare the colorful photo above to how she looks now... all stressed out. I don’t know what to do for her, she’s a totally different fish after the QT experience. 











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