# German Blue Ram Eggs



## DBlauj (Apr 17, 2012)

You could try removing the female after you have wigglers.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

DBlauj said:


> You could try removing the female after you have wigglers.


i thought about this but this will put more stress on her, this is the reason i dont want to remove her, also if i do remove her, this might cause them to not breed anymore or simply breaking them up IMO.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

anyone else?


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## Dave6265 (Nov 18, 2011)

Breeders net for the wigglers?


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## matt13 (Jul 17, 2012)

Happi-

Rams are notoriously poor parents. Out of the hundreds of spawns that we have raised, not one were raised by the parents. It's not that we didn't try, but we always met with the same results as you. Having said that, there are some breeders that we know that have great success with parent-raised rams. I'm not sure what makes one pair good parents while other pairs eat their eggs. Kind of like people I guess (except the egg eating part). 

If you're willing to try hatching them yourself, it's pretty easy. We use small pieces of slate (2" x 2") as spawning surfaces, placed along the back and sides of the tank. The parents almost always use these slates over anything else. Once the eggs have been laid and fertilized, you can remove the slate to a hatching jar. If you've ever raised angelfish eggs, the process is exactly the same. We use one-gallon jars filled with water from the aquarium and add the eggs with 8 drops of Methylene Blue, and an airstone. The eggs should hatch in 2 days, and be free-swimming about 4-5 days after that.

Hope that helps.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

matt13 said:


> Happi-
> 
> Rams are notoriously poor parents. Out of the hundreds of spawns that we have raised, not one were raised by the parents. It's not that we didn't try, but we always met with the same results as you. Having said that, there are some breeders that we know that have great success with parent-raised rams. I'm not sure what makes one pair good parents while other pairs eat their eggs. Kind of like people I guess (except the egg eating part).
> 
> ...


thank you Matt, i will try this before they are about to spawn again.


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## Drowki (May 8, 2012)

Also be sure not let the eggs touch air. If they touch the air = fungus. 

My Rams have spawned a couple of times, and the parents were actually were really good. Just the corys and the loaches got a hold of the eggs =( 
Next time they are spawning, I will remove the eggs.

What does this 2"x2" slated slap look like?


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## DBlauj (Apr 17, 2012)

happi said:


> i thought about this but this will put more stress on her, this is the reason i dont want to remove her, also if i do remove her, this might cause them to not breed anymore or simply breaking them up IMO.



I thought about this also before I moved my apisto female and her fry out of my community tank. I was hesitant in the beginning in fear that once reunited with the fry she would eat them. Luckily enough after about 10 secs she recognized them and they recognized her and all was well. I haven't had my rams spawn yet but maybe it's better to go with Matt's suggestion. IMO breaking the two up could possibly break their bond to spawn again but I doubt that. When I remove my female apisto and then place her back in the community tank with the male after about a week or so they go right back to courting. I'm under the assumption that since rams breed in pairs once they have time to settle down again after being split they should begin their old habits and begin courting again. Worst case she'll just eat the wigglers again.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am4FJJ-yaX4&feature=youtu.be

finally on their 5th try, in the same tank, same water parameter. both parents are very good at taking care of the fries and moving them around to safer area. 

Water parameter

PH 6.0<
GH 1-2 dgh
KH 0 dgh
TDS 100ppm+
Temp 76-78F


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## garloki72 (Oct 31, 2010)

Looking good there man! With almost every cichlid species it takes them a couple of tries to get it right and it looks like yours finally did it! BTW how is that discus tank that was in another one of your videos?


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

happi said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am4FJJ-yaX4&feature=youtu.be
> 
> finally on their 5th try, in the same tank, same water parameter. both parents are very good at taking care of the fries and moving them around to safer area.
> 
> ...


vacuum them out with an airhose into a plastic shoe box container. 
trow some moss in there and start feeding them infusoria. After 3 days they will take microworms. Couple days later bbs. 
Try to keep the bottom clean, and fill it back up with water out of the parents tank. Keep temp above 80F, they will grow faster this way.

Good luck, its not easy to keep them alive.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

nalu86 said:


> vacuum them out with an airhose into a plastic shoe box container.
> trow some moss in there and start feeding them infusoria. After 3 days they will take microworms. Couple days later bbs.
> Try to keep the bottom clean, and fill it back up with water out of the parents tank. Keep temp above 80F, they will grow faster this way.
> 
> Good luck, its not easy to keep them alive.



i think am going to leave them with the parent, so they could learn more. am not worried if they eat the fries this time, am sure they will spawn again. i am going to feed them first bite and i still need to find someone who can give me some infusoria or micro worm.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

happi said:


> i think am going to leave them with the parent, so they could learn more. am not worried if they eat the fries this time, am sure they will spawn again. i am going to feed them first bite and i still need to find someone who can give me some infusoria or micro worm.


I did the same, I let them try for 6 months in their own 20 gal tank, but every time after day 10, the fry was gone. So one day I sucked them all out. 

They won't take first bites, they will only take live food. They have to see it move.

Infusoria is just a jar with tank water and a crunched up leaf of lettuce, or crunched water plants. Let it sit for a week or so and you have infusoria.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

nalu86 said:


> I did the same, I let them try for 6 months in their own 20 gal tank, but every time after day 10, the fry was gone. So one day I sucked them all out.
> 
> They won't take first bites, they will only take live food. They have to see it move.
> 
> Infusoria is just a jar with tank water and a crunched up leaf of lettuce, or crunched water plants. Let it sit for a week or so and you have infusoria.



bad news is female ram already suck them out today, saw it happening right in front of my eyes. its always the female that seems to eat the eggs or fry, male never does it. 

i also had a microworms which i bought from somebody to start the culture. but no use since fries are gone, maybe next time i will either take the fry out or simply breed the fish in my 4 gallon tank and then take them out.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

I did this before with 40-50% success rate.

Add tap water (don't dechlor*) (mine is at 7.6PH, GH 4, KH 5 +-50ppm TDS) in a plastic shoe box container, add 1-2 drips methaline blue. take the piece of rock with the eggs on and pit it in the container. Keep the container at 80- 82F, I did this by floating it in my 75 gal tank. Airrate with an airstone.

After 36-72H they should hatch. From the moment they all fall of the rock, take it out.
Do a bottom vac, but don't remove more than 10% of the water. Fill back up with tank water, now add moss and a cycled sponge filter (I made those out of 3 way T piece 3/4" PVC, you put on both sides filter floss and put airline in other side.)
After 3 days the will start freeswimming, start feeding infusoria and microworms, vac every time after feeding. Be careful not to suck up the fry. After couple of days they will start taking bbs. 

*If you use non dechlored tap water, this will help avoiding mold on the eggs. 

Tom


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## matt13 (Jul 17, 2012)

Happi-

Please see my post from 07/28 regarding your problems. If you want more complete information regarding hatching and raising the eggs/fry yourself, just let me know and I can send it to you. Just PM me.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

matt13 said:


> Happi-
> 
> Please see my post from 07/28 regarding your problems. If you want more complete information regarding hatching and raising the eggs/fry yourself, just let me know and I can send it to you. Just PM me.



matt, i have sent you pm and waiting for your reply.


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

My Angels do the same darn thing every time. Im going to Try Matt13's sugestion on the slate.


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

Two choices I see here, remove the female or I hate to say this.. deal with the consequences. I know you are opposed to taking the female out of the tank but I don't see an alternative to this unless you can figure out a way to separate her in the tank with an acrylic wall or something like that. They have made suggestions to suck up the eggs and transfer them but you want to have the parent around and it ends up with them becoming a snack. I don't see a viable option to have cake and eat it too to be honest.


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## matt13 (Jul 17, 2012)

Happi-

Attached is the information I promised. Sorry it took so long. I thought I sent it to you last week, but apparently the post never went through.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

matt13 said:


> Happi-
> 
> Attached is the information I promised. Sorry it took so long. I thought I sent it to you last week, but apparently the post never went through.



thanks matt

i did try the slate and they avoided using it and laid the eggs somewhere else on substrate. anyway i accidentally covered the eggs when i was moving my plants around, oh well, i will wait for another week or two for them to spawn again.


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