# oldpunk's 20L



## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

I noticed my 29's silicon failing this morning...

So I moved everything into a 20 long.









Who says neons don't school well?

I need more plants. So far it's just Java Ferns and Bolbitis.

Ideas and opinions are very welcome.


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## GitMoe (Aug 30, 2010)

Very solid move. I love tanks that don't require trimming. Great placement on everything. Looks like you got the Co2 cranking right away...


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Looks good. It might look good wig a carpet plant too. It looks somewhat like I invasion a possible scape for my 20long. Wih a carpet plant and a "bush" of DW on the left side sticking our of the water a bit maybe with emerged plants on the part. With ferns growing in the DW. 




You can call me Bob


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

I think It looks even better in the 20g, It seems to take up more of the tank space and look more filled. If you were to take a very cropped fts the tank would look very large. I think a nice, dense staurogyne repens carpet would look great. Im really liking the tank better after the move...and you know how much I liked the old setup!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks guys! I actually just tossed my tropica 049. It wasn't really what I thought is was going to be. I am however considering a Marsilia carpet(or maybe DHG).

Here's the FTS (still looks way too empty)


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

I think that the marsilia's leaves might be too big, it might not look as good as something with smaller leaves IMO, but its your tank do whatever you want  . 

Also, Once your fish start to swim around a little bit more, it will look a little better, and not like it's missing something. I just did a major rescape and substrate change on my 29g (luckily mine is still standing unlike yours  ) and my fish are all hiding right now.


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## Pikachu (Oct 1, 2010)

It needs lily pipes, that's what it needs :tongue: Or something to hide the pipes and wiring in the background. Tank looks good and very minimalist.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Really like the move you made!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

chumlee said:


> I think that the marsilia's leaves might be too big, it might not look as good as something with smaller leaves IMO, but its your tank do whatever you want  .
> 
> Also, Once your fish start to swim around a little bit more, it will look a little better, and not like it's missing something. I just did a major rescape and substrate change on my 29g (luckily mine is still standing unlike yours  ) and my fish are all hiding right now.


Hey, I might try something else. What about glosso?


Pikachu said:


> It needs lily pipes, that's what it needs :tongue: Or something to hide the pipes and wiring in the background. Tank looks good and very minimalist.


Ya, some pipes would be cool. You know once I got some lilly pipes, then you'd be telling me to loose the rim. Hey! I used to live on Whidbey Island. I miss WA.


problemman said:


> Really like the move you made!


Thanks, I always thought I might do better with a 20long.We'll see I guess.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

oldpunk78 said:


> Here's the FTS (still looks way too empty)


But kind of in a good way . . . I really like off-center scapes balanced with a large open space. If I ever manage to end up with thin sticks instead of solid stumps I'm so gonna do one like this!!!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Sometimes the negative space is a good thing. Sometimes not. I'm more concerned about needing more plants to help fend off algae at this point.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

Nice job dude, you've used the space well. The wood has a lot of depth for the minimal space front to back. It has a real nice flow.
I'm looking forward to seeing it progress, it's an awesome start & it only looks bare to you because you just started itroud:




oldpunk78 said:


> I'm more concerned about needing more plants to help fend off algae at this point.


I'll agree with that, get some quick skinny stems in & remove them if you haven't fully decided yet.


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## Hadley (Dec 12, 2010)

I love this tank and think it's just beautiful.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

What happened to the cyperus helferi OP? Didn't like it huh? If you need more, lemme know. 

I like the new tank alot better as well. Nice job.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. 

Speedie, I liked it very much actually. I either killed it or covered it in bba. I still have a couple that survived. Wouldn't they get too tall for just a foot high tank?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Woot! Droid double post....


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

I wasn't thinking haha you're right. They would be too tall. I forgot how 20longs give the effect of the tank being much bigger and forgot all about the tank size.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

how about an update?

i think the diatoms are about over with. i hate the whole new tank diatom thing, lol. anyway, that's why everything is a little brown. 

fts










a little too much co2










and one more for good measure


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Looks great OP. I love the look of the ferns coming out of the wood like that. 

Is that bba on the dw? If so, how do you plan on battling it? I'd recommend doing the 14day OD excel treatment.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

thanks nick!

yes, that is bba on the wood. (among other various algae..) 

it appeared after testing some regulators out over the last month. i had a lot of co2 adjusting going on. i finally settled on a reg and now i am just blasting the co2 at the right levels. it's been my experience that once i get the co2 maxed out and ferts correct, it just dies. lol - if it doesn't... i'll scrub it off and run it through the dishwasher.

i'm going to read up on that link right now.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Put more flow and the correct co2 levels worked for me. It comes in when the flow is to low or its a dead spot. Got rid of mine this way


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

problemman said:


> Put more flow and the correct co2 levels worked for me. It comes in when the flow is to low or its a dead spot. Got rid of mine this way


ya - flow was a major problem for me. after i figured that out, it seemed to get a lot easier.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

It grew a little. I'm not really happy with layout anymore. That means within a few weeks I'll probably rip it apart, clean off the wood and try it again. I will leave the ground cover alone. Testing new regulators out on your display tank reeks havoc with bba. When will I remember that? lol


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

I don't think it looks bad at all! I wish I would leave my tank alone but I have collectoritis lol


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks problemman. i really want to clean that wood up + I know I can create more room behind the mound. I might try and get some stems back there.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey that looks awesome oldpunk.

I like that shot of the tetras up at the water's surface.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks hydro!

I've almost gassed those poor guys a few times.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Nice looking tank!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Sorry if I missed it but what type of java fern is that? It's not Philippine is it? I say keep the current scape and just add some stems to the rear.


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## farmhand (Jun 25, 2009)

oldpunk78 said:


> yes, that is bba on the wood. (among other various algae..)
> it appeared after testing some regulators out over the last month.


And thanks to that testing my rig I purchased from you is working great.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

This tank is looking pretty damn good! Well, minus the BBA. I like the placement of the plants and the wood. Your MM is coming along good too.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

nonconductive said:


> Nice looking tank!


Thanks!


speedie408 said:


> Sorry if I missed it but what type of java fern is that? It's not Philippine is it? I say keep the current scape and just add some stems to the rear.


There are a few different kinds I've identified so far.
Microsorum pteropus
Microsorum pteropus "narrow" 
Microsorum pteropus "undulata"
and yes, Microsorum pteropus "Phillipine"
I just ordered some "trident" too. I can't wait.. I'm gonna try and keep it as close to this as possible. I always have a heck of time trying to get back to where is was.


farmhand said:


> And thanks to that testing my rig I purchased from you is working great.


Awesome!!


chad320 said:


> This tank is looking pretty damn good! Well, minus the BBA. I like the placement of the plants and the wood. Your MM is coming along good too.


Thanks chad! I can't wait 'till the mm takes off. It should be pretty soon.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

ok guys, i could use some feedback here.

i'm planning on re-doing the tank a little and have some plants i'm goona add. there's some blyxa, trident, brazilain pennywort, and a little lawnmarsh pennywort.

any ideas?


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

oldpunk78 said:


> Testing new regulators out on your display tank reeks havoc with bba. When will I remember that? lol


Why does it cause bba? The dial in process? 

Really Beautiful tank BTW....I'm liking clean simple tanks more and more now...my planted tank tastes keeps on changing...

I think you should frost the rear glass with frosted glass window tint sticker from TAPS Plastics when you redo...that's my 2 cents.


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## drbotts (Apr 10, 2011)

I knew I had seen driftwood like this somewhere. Take a look at this guys design. I can almost see this if you add some stone or mound up some substrate to bring the driftwood up to mid tank. I'd also flip it so that it creates a bit of an 'arch' with some of those branches.
Aquatic Gardeners Link

Something I'd consider as well is creating something of a 'waterfall' effect. Stacking some stone on the left side or creating a 'wall' of plant growth and having this piece of driftwood emerge from it as though it was a set of roots emerging from the scape of a waterfall into the flow. 

I could be wrong but I think the problem, in my opinion, with the way that it currently looks, is the space on the left side. The driftwood 'emerges' from the mid to left side of the tank. I think it would look amazing if the driftwood looked like it was growing into the tank from that left side/corner.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Why does it cause bba? The dial in process?
> 
> Really Beautiful tank BTW....I'm liking clean simple tanks more and more now...my planted tank tastes keeps on changing...
> 
> I think you should frost the rear glass with frosted glass window tint sticker from TAPS Plastics when you redo...that's my 2 cents.





drbotts said:


> I knew I had seen driftwood like this somewhere. Take a look at this guys design. I can almost see this if you add some stone or mound up some substrate to bring the driftwood up to mid tank. I'd also flip it so that it creates a bit of an 'arch' with some of those branches.
> Aquatic Gardeners Link
> 
> Something I'd consider as well is creating something of a 'waterfall' effect. Stacking some stone on the left side or creating a 'wall' of plant growth and having this piece of driftwood emerge from it as though it was a set of roots emerging from the scape of a waterfall into the flow.
> ...


thanks for the input guys. and yes, fluctuating co2 levels cause bba.

update time.



















i should be getting enough trident to replace all of the current ferns. i'll probably make the change this week.

thanks for looking!!


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## TwoStrokeKing (Mar 24, 2011)

Sweet tank! I like how u have made a 20 long, look so big.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thank-you!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

haha...I just realized that you're the same guy that posted that brackish biological weapon in the ugly tank thread....

How can you have one tank that is soooo beautiful and another soooooo nasty?...I can see which tank is getting all of your attention....


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

This looks great man. The 20 Long is such a great betta tank.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

shrimpnmoss said:


> haha...I just realized that you're the same guy that posted that brackish biological weapon in the ugly tank thread....
> 
> How can you have one tank that is soooo beautiful and another soooooo nasty?...I can see which tank is getting all of your attention....


ehh... that brackish tank was a experiment. no matter what i did that algae just kept coming. i'm pretty sure it's because of the rocks i used in there. anyway, thanks!


MoeBetta said:


> This looks great man. The 20 Long is such a great betta tank.


why thank you. i just got that guy. i hope he doesn't jump out. he was expensive! hehe


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

You grab him from the SnS? If I didn't have a betta in my 20L already I would have bought him. Awesome fish.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Lovin it bro! Keep it up. You lost your BBA haha. Nice work!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

MoeBetta said:


> You grab him from the SnS? If I didn't have a betta in my 20L already I would have bought him. Awesome fish.


yup! here's an actual photo of him:












speedie408 said:


> Lovin it bro! Keep it up. You lost your BBA haha. Nice work!


Thanks Nick!! I didn't loose it, lol. I took out the wood and scrubbed it off. The real trick is to not grow it. hahaha


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

This tank looks better as a 20L and not a 29. I am kind of glad your tank was failing. Edit: That betta is a beauty!


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

I like it! The Blyxa really helped tie things together.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> This tank looks better as a 20L and not a 29. I am kind of glad your tank was failing. Edit: That betta is a beauty!


29's are just hard. I can't imagine a 37g, lol. 


antbug said:


> I like it! The Blyxa really helped tie things together.


I know, it really seemed to help. 

Lot's of trident:










What to do, what to do...


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## albirdy (Jul 16, 2008)

oooooh looks nice. that's trident fern? the hue is so light.. almost like wysteria.
also, is that marsilea minutia in the foreground? how long did it take to carpet?
what sort of light do you have above this?

 thanks


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ thanks a bunch! and yes, that is marsilea minutia. I think I planted mid February. The light is a 2x24w t5ho suspended a little over a foot above the tank.


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## albirdy (Jul 16, 2008)

impressive. i'm assuming youre dosing with the co2? dry dose? or root tabs?
also, thanks for the answer re: lights. very helpful. 

insane me is thinking of putting 36 inch, 39 watt lights over it. perhaps taking one bulb out. but we'll see.

even thinking about putting that light (single) over a 12 gallon long.

we'll see! please, please keep us posted. your set up is something i want to aspire to.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^yep, co2 and ei  dry marcos and diy tropica master grow - no root tabs. I don't they're necessary since I'm pretty low light.

...and thanks!


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## Coltonorr (Mar 12, 2008)

Very cool oldpunk!
Glad I caught up with this journal, its really nice to watch the progression since the transition from the 29.
Totally love trident, what is being replaced?

I have a 2OL that I'm going to scape with NJAGC in November so this is great to get some ideas.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

> Totally love trident, what is being replaced?


All the other ferns. Probably...


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

waiting...:smile:


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

dirtyhermit said:


> waiting...:smile:


Fine!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

looks good


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

Nice! The scale is out of this world. Great job.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i agree, the tank looks huge


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks guys!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Here's a pic from after the sun went down and I wasn't trying to dodge reflections.










Normal viewing angle.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Looks very nice!


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## btimmer92 (Mar 12, 2011)

Dang, I love your tank. What dkh are you using in your drop checker?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

You guys are too kind.


btimmer92 said:


> What dkh are you using in your drop checker?


4dkh - my camera changed the color a little. It is almost yellow though.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Top notch, man. I agree with the previous comments about the scale of this 'scape -- _great_ use of space. 

Kinda makes me miss my 20L


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## Gotcha38 (Apr 13, 2010)

It's an inspiration. Very excellent.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

LOL - the scale was a complete accident. You guys rock!


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## Coltonorr (Mar 12, 2008)

Very nice oldpunk...If I didn't know better I'd say that tank looks like a 75g.
Love the driftwood!
Thats 2x24w T5HO's? Whats the photoperiod?
Great job!


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## TwoStrokeKing (Mar 24, 2011)

Stunned about this tank! its really nice!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

You guys are too nice.

yes, t5ho 2x24w for 8hrs.


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## Coltonorr (Mar 12, 2008)

oldpunk are both lights on or do you have a burst period?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

They're both on for 8hrs. No burst.


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## Loubard (Dec 16, 2005)

Love this tank! Are you gonna put some frost plastic on the back?


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## DerCribben (Mar 15, 2011)

Great tank!


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## Dragonstar (Oct 25, 2009)

just chiming into the chorus. This tank has a very pleasing composition.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

umm... probably no frosted plastic. Having a rim kinda messes that look up. And again, you guys are too kind.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Driftwood & Java looks great! Not sure I like the foreground (marsilia?) though... it's too tall, or not tall enough!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Ya, that's marsilia. Not sure which sp though. I like low maintenance, hc and glosso(my other two choices I had in mind) need too much trimming for me.


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## btimmer92 (Mar 12, 2011)

what kelvin lights do you use?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ Sorry, missed your post 

A hagen power glo(allegedly 18,000K) and a 10,000K zoo med?(can't remember)


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

I hate going on vacation and being away from the tank for a week. I am worried about the care it's receiving. 

Oh well, at least I get to take a credit card to nature aquarium tomorrow, lol. I like socal, but I don't think I'd want to live here again.


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## Rion (Dec 29, 2006)

I really like this tank I don't see marsilea minutia that much/at all so this is a really nice change of pace.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ thanks Rion. I needed an easy foreground. It's probably doubled in thickness since the last photo. It's weird though, the mm is growing like clover. I must not be getting enough light.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

The visit to Nature Aquarium in Santa Monica went well. I left with a 60P and 2 9L bags of Amazonia. Now I have to figure out how to cram it all into the Forester with all our other stuff, lol. Haha - one of my kids may have to hold it for 500 miles.

This may be the end of the 20 long.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

haha...my credit card wimpers everytime I walk into a LFS with ADA.....Congrats on the 60p. I love mine. Not too small...not too big....bye bye 20L....

There is a guy selling a sweet 24inch custom Catalina light on the SNS with moonlights that would be perfect for your 60p....a good deal too...


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

I guess I'm lucky they didn't have a 75P. That would have really hurt, both my wallet and the poor kids that would have had to hold on to the darn thing going down the freeway.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Did you get two bags of regular soil or one bag powder and one bag regular?


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## mscichlid (Jul 14, 2008)

I can't wait to see what you do with this tank. I'm mighty impressed with your 20L. You've got mad skills.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Did you get two bags of regular soil or one bag powder and one bag regular?


2 9L bags of the new regular size stuff. I don't care for the powder type.


mscichlid said:


> I can't wait to see what you do with this tank. I'm mighty impressed with your 20L. You've got mad skills.


Thank you  I hope to do this new one justice.


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

Just want to let you know Im still here lurking...I want to see more of this Tank!!!!! Still my favorite


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

oldpunk78 said:


>


Nice!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks hydro!

I was really inspired by one of the tanks at Nature Aquarium. This new tank is going to use a lot of moss(probably fissidens) on the manzanita. Photos on the computer don't do it justice.


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## TwoStrokeKing (Mar 24, 2011)

I love ADA tanks! Cant wait to see what u do to this


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## VeeSe (Apr 16, 2011)

Just stumbled upon this thread. I must say that your 20gal tank looked HUGE. It looks like a 50-80gallon tank... I think it looks bigger than my 55G


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

TwoStrokeKing said:


> I love ADA tanks! Cant wait to see what u do to this


I love ada tanks too!! I can't wait to get it home and try and figure out what I'm gonna do with it.


VeeSe said:


> Just stumbled upon this thread. I must say that your 20gal tank looked HUGE. It looks like a 50-80gallon tank... I think it looks bigger than my 55G


It's still up and running. All by itself... It's been pretty much unattended for a week now. I hope the guy that's coming to feed the fish didn't do anything bad to it. lol

I wish I knew how I got the scale right. I probably couldn't do it twice - haha


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

So an LFS in santa monica has stuff from the new ada crate? I put a deposit down before the crate even cleared customs and am still waiting on my 120P, now over a month later. 

I mean, enjoy your new tank!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

He was surprised that you were still waiting. He didn't have any of the bigger tanks in stock though.


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## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Weird thing about a 75P is you have to use 90P pipes and stuff. 

Nice pick up. Can not wait to see what you have in mind.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Kazuya said:


> Weird thing about a 75P is you have to use 90P pipes and stuff.
> 
> Nice pick up. Can not wait to see what you have in mind.


eh, the glass is just thicker.

I'm thinking about not tearing down the 20 long after all. ARRR... Now I need more equipment. Sigh*


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

oldpunk78 said:


> I'm thinking about not tearing down the 20 long after all. ARRR... Now I need more equipment. Sigh*


Now I know why you're selling all those 'premo CO2 setups like a mad man :icon_mrgr

It's nice to see that you build great scapes too.

Moar pics :bounce:


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

audioaficionado said:


> Moar pics :bounce:


 this tank has turned into a holding tank for the plants I'm accumulating for the 60P. It just looks like a big blob of green at the moment. It's a slow growing tank. Not much has changed anyway.


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## Rhaethe (Jan 20, 2010)

Somehow I had missed this thread until now ... Just wanted to say that I really really enjoyed your 20L. I am contemplating setting upa "mainly fern" tank, but was undecided on the carpet, as I too like low maintenance (hate constant pruning) plants. The mm was a really nice idea 

Anywho, very nice tank


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks, I really enjoy the low maintenance aspect of this tank. You will enjoy a mainly fern tank. Moss on rocks works well too.


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## TankZen (Jan 31, 2011)

WOW nice I love this tank! So peaceful looking.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thank-you, TankZen.


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

GREAT TANK!!! As everybody else has said, it looks much bigger that it actually is! Very peaceful too!!!

What substrate are you using in the 20L??

Thanks,
Drew


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks, Drew. I just have some inert small size grave in there. Nothing special.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Just re-set this up again yesterday. Did a little scaping this afternoon. All of the plants came out of my very neglected 60P. (That means there's some algae and some fert deficiencies.)

equipment:

- rena xp3
- dirty acrylic pipes
- homemade 2x24w t5
- no heater
- no co2

plants:

- java fern narrow
- java fern 'red' 
- nana 'petite'
- wedti red
- singapore moss (just yanked out a softball's worth this afternoon)

Sorry about the crappy pics


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I like it this way. Whatever happened with the MM? I liked that as a carpet plant too.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

Is this signaling a tear down of the 60p? I'm glad to see it back up though. I still have a hard time believing this is a 20L, you make it look like twice that easily.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

chad320 said:


> I like it this way. Whatever happened with the MM? I liked that as a carpet plant too.


Sold all the marsillia a while ago. I may add some again. It would probably take about a year to fill in though 


Dollface said:


> Is this signaling a tear down of the 60p? I'm glad to see it back up though. I still have a hard time believing this is a 20L, you make it look like twice that easily.


Ya - the 60P is empty at the moment. I have no plans to do anything with it at this time. It sucks seeing it just sitting. 

Lol, looks like a 20 long to me


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> Ya - the 60P is empty at the moment. I have no plans to do anything with it at this time. It sucks seeing it just sitting.
> 
> Lol, looks like a 20 long to me



You're not going to drill it and start a reef, are you? You might give a couple of people a heart attack. 

Photos are well known liars. You do have an excellent sense of scale though. Your hardscapes are always perfectly sized.


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## mcqueenesq (Aug 29, 2011)

Instant art—just add water. You're making this look too easy.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Dollface said:


> You're not going to drill it and start a reef, are you? You might give a couple of people a heart attack.
> 
> Photos are well known liars. You do have an excellent sense of scale though. Your hardscapes are always perfectly sized.


Ya know - I thought about it. I didn't want to mess with a sump, haha. Having a backyard full of manzinita makes finding the right size pieces easy roud:


mcqueenesq said:


> Instant art—just add water. You're making this look too easy.


I think I've got about 2 hrs involved here (...and I took my time :icon_cool ). I just pulled everything out of the 60P and basically just plopped it into this tank. It was easy. Sometimes you just get some luck on your side.

Geez... I'm already wanting a foreground. I guess that means co2 as well. Nuts.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> Geez... I'm already wanting a foreground. I guess that means co2 as well. Nuts.


What about microsword or e. tenellus? or even hair grass, I'm pretty sure you could get away with non to DIY co2 with those.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

oldpunk78 & DIY CO2 ?!!

I can't imagine :icon_mrgr


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

audioaficionado said:


> oldpunk78 & DIY CO2 ?!!
> 
> I can't imagine :icon_mrgr


I could've sworn he had DIY on a previous tank :icon_conf


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Dollface said:


> What about microsword or e. tenellus? or even hair grass, I'm pretty sure you could get away with non to DIY co2 with those.


I think those would get too tall. I've never tried glosso 


audioaficionado said:


> oldpunk78 & DIY CO2 ?!!
> 
> I can't imagine :icon_mrgr


It has been a couple years 


Dollface said:


> I could've sworn he had DIY on a previous tank :icon_conf


Yes, ma'am











^ Yikes!!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

The moss is taking over...


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Lovely look to the scape


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

2in10 said:


> Lovely look to the scape


Thanks.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

That diy set up was intense. You must have spent a fortune on sugar


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It's looking good!!!!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

kwheeler91 said:


> That diy set up was intense. You must have spent a fortune on sugar


Ya, that was using 4 cups a week. It worked pretty good.


150EH said:


> It's looking good!!!!


Thanks man. I should of taken a better pic. You can only barely make out the petite at the bottom.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

oldpunk78 said:


> Ya, that was using 4 cups a week. It worked pretty good.
> 
> Thanks man. I should of taken a better pic. You can only barely make out the petite at the bottom.


Holy crow... That's like $25 worth of sugar a month.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Lol, ^ ya - I had to buy those big bags.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

I don't feel so bad about my pipes now.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Dollface said:


> I don't feel so bad about my pipes now.


That's shrimp food!!!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Dollface said:


> I don't feel so bad about my pipes now.


Hey, at least you can only see one of mine. 


150EH said:


> That's shrimp food!!!


Shrimp... Mmmm


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

A different view:










You guys out there that get great shots of fish must be way more patient than me. I tried to get a decent pic of this cherry barb for while but he never stayed still long enough. 















Someone raok me some marsilia.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Have you tried the "two little fishes" magnet cleaner for pipes, I hear they are nice because you don't have to tear apart your setup?

It's dark but still a cool shot! Your fish have good color.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

150EH said:


> Have you tried the "two little fishes" magnet cleaner for pipes, I hear they are nice because you don't have to tear apart your setup?
> 
> It's dark but still a cool shot! Your fish have good color.


You know... I actually own one of those flexible pipe brushes. I have yet to use it though. I guess it just doesn't really bother me anymore. I'll clean then some day  I even have two sets of pipes to swap out... 

It's dark because I still haven't bought an external flash yet. I need to stop buying LEDs  

The fish colors really pop with the bulb combo I'm using. (Power glo - do they even make it anymore? lol/10,000K)


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> Hey, at least you can only see one of mine.


what was that now? :flick:


Fish photography is something I quickly accepted that I will never be particularly good at. My knees easily decided that they couldn't deal with 20 minutes of kneeling in front of the tank on hardwood floors for one obligatory fish picture from my 40 breeder.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ fish are hard. Nature is much easier. Not fish related but who cares.

This is where we spent memorial day weekend:










The guys in jeeps always give us the stink eye when we roll up in our forester lol


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

Man, I spent most of my weekend on I5. I'm officially jealous.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Don't worry, we spent plenty of time on the road. ^ that was yesterday morning. This was the evening:










somewhere in the middle:


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

So jealous!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

MoeBetta said:


> So jealous!


Me too. I wish I was back there already. It's supposed to hit triple digits here this week.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That looks nice, we did Rolling Thunder an it was nice and cool this year. We used to camp a lot when my kids were younger.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

There are a ton of bikers up there all summer. It makes a great day ride for the bay area folks. We passed at least one group of 30+.

Camping? Who said anything about camping? (We do a lot of camping though.) My gramma owns a cabin up there so we just stay there and make a bunch of day trips to where everyone isn't


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

The moss takes over










Time to trim...


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

How's your luck with the moss actually attaching to the dw, because I can't get any sp. to attach worth a damn in the 40


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

I didn't get it to attach until I thinned it out a bit. Now I don't think I'll be able to get rid of it. 

Like the part of the moss that's on the wood needs to not be covered up by other moss or it dies/doesn't attach.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

What's your preferred method for thinning it out? :\ do you just tie it on sparsely initially, or do you go in later and trim/pull stuff out?


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I used rayon thread to tie fissidens on wood. Put a spot lamp on it with some diy co2 for a week or two and presto! Trimming does help moss spread and attach opposed to growing out. 

Nice tank oldpunk, I used this as inspiration for the tank I mentioned. I really like the wood spikes and moss


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Dollface said:


> What's your preferred method for thinning it out? :\ do you just tie it on sparsely initially, or do you go in later and trim/pull stuff out?


Well, initially I tied a lot on and trimmed a lot. That seemed to help make it spread pretty quickly. It did't really start to stick until I started just ripping it out. Makes a heck of a lot less mess than trimming too.


kwheeler91 said:


> I used rayon thread to tie fissidens on wood. Put a spot lamp on it with some diy co2 for a week or two and presto! Trimming does help moss spread and attach opposed to growing out.
> 
> Nice tank oldpunk, I used this as inspiration for the tank I mentioned. I really like the wood spikes and moss


Thanks!


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## sso (Jun 2, 2012)

oldpunk78 said:


> A different view:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


tank looks pretty amazing in the top shot, sorry about your old tank.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks! Eh - the 29 was a pain to scape anyways...


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Minus one baseball worth of moss:


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Welp... This scape didn't make it very long. I've decided to take it apart and start over with a foreground. Should have a new layout done this week.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

LOL, we seem to find all kinds of scapes we like just not love. Beautiful looking scape though.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Sparks. I've driven through there. Isn't there a big prison?


Ya... I'm really tired of the mound look. Problem is, I can't pull anything else off. I really want to try a rock scape but those rocks are just too expensive. I am not got to the mound again. Well, not one mound anyway... Thanks, btw.


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

I like your design. Clean and simple. Well done. I would call it...... "Simplicity"


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

green_valley said:


> I like your design. Clean and simple. Well done. I would call it...... "Simplicity"


Thank you, Green.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)




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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Going from your typical layout style huh?


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

I like the new look.. you should call it.. _Plantless_


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> Going from your typical layout style huh?


Sorta. I want to try a valley type scape. I can never get those to work out.


demonr6 said:


> I like the new look.. you should call it.. _Plantless_


Right..

This is where I'm at with it. Not too happy at this point. If I can't figure it out the next couple of days, I'm just gonna ditch it and try rock scape with no tall plants.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

With that NLJF and Petite, do you just stuff it between the crevices of Manzy?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I think the NLJF should be tucked back tight into the corners.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I like it............it's more balanced, nice!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Some awesome textured rocks in the center would be a nice bridge between the islands.


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

oldpunk78 said:


> Sorta. I want to try a valley type scape. I can never get those to work out.
> 
> Right..
> 
> This is where I'm at with it. Not too happy at this point. If I can't figure it out the next couple of days, I'm just gonna ditch it and try rock scape with no tall plants.


I kind of see where you are coming from. I would not ditch it necessarily for rocks, maybe go with another plant choice?


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

WHAT??!!??!! What the heck is wrong with it, bro?? Just add an interesting foreground species or two.....may a Marselia Minuta and Hydrocotyle "Japan"......that's all that is "missing" from this, really!

Looks great! It would be a shame if you just gave up on it now. See it through.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

crazydaz said:


> WHAT??!!??!! What the heck is wrong with it, bro?? Just add an interesting foreground species or two.....may a Marselia Minuta and Hydrocotyle "Japan"......that's all that is "missing" from this, really!
> 
> Looks great! It would be a shame if you just gave up on it now. See it through.


Ditto, the ferns just need to fill out a bit and add groundcover, maybe a mixed one something like Crazydaz suggested, but then I'm a bit of a fern fan.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

I'd pull the ferns. Cover the wood with Fissidens and put E. Belem as a carpet. Thats what I would do. 

You could start with some baby NLJF's and let it grow in.


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## bitFUUL (May 14, 2010)

Looks sweet just like it is...


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Short carpeting or low growing plants would be nice too.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

bitFUUL said:


> Looks sweet just like it is...


I agree!! we don't need no stink'n bridge!!!!


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

150EH said:


> I agree!! we don't need no stink'n bridge!!!!


FFS send me that link and I will buy it for him and even eat express shipping if he installs it, takes a pic and posts it!!


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Push the ferns to the corners or put somethung back there to fill the void. Add some foreground plants, maybe a couple rocks and some moss on the wood and let her go. I like the scape just needs a little filling in.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

jkan0228 said:


> With that NLJF and Petite, do you just stuff it between the crevices of Manzy?





Craigthor said:


> I think the NLJF should be tucked back tight into the corners.





150EH said:


> I like it............it's more balanced, nice!





audioaficionado said:


> Some awesome textured rocks in the center would be a nice bridge between the islands.





demonr6 said:


> I kind of see where you are coming from. I would not ditch it necessarily for rocks, maybe go with another plant choice?





crazydaz said:


> WHAT??!!??!! What the heck is wrong with it, bro?? Just add an interesting foreground species or two.....may a Marselia Minuta and Hydrocotyle "Japan"......that's all that is "missing" from this, really!
> 
> Looks great! It would be a shame if you just gave up on it now. See it through.





Jeff5614 said:


> Ditto, the ferns just need to fill out a bit and add groundcover, maybe a mixed one something like Crazydaz suggested, but then I'm a bit of a fern fan.





Couesfanatic said:


> I'd pull the ferns. Cover the wood with Fissidens and put E. Belem as a carpet. Thats what I would do.
> 
> You could start with some baby NLJF's and let it grow in.





bitFUUL said:


> Looks sweet just like it is...





audioaficionado said:


> Short carpeting or low growing plants would be nice too.





150EH said:


> I agree!! we don't need no stink'n bridge!!!!





demonr6 said:


> FFS send me that link and I will buy it for him and even eat express shipping if he installs it, takes a pic and posts it!!





kwheeler91 said:


> Push the ferns to the corners or put somethung back there to fill the void. Add some foreground plants, maybe a couple rocks and some moss on the wood and let her go. I like the scape just needs a little filling in.



Wow! Thanks for all the feedback guys. Sorry I didn't get a chance to get back to you sooner. oldpunk forgot to pay the dsl bill...

Anyway, I messed around with it some more. Still not quite what I had in mind but better. The rocks are just holding down the wood on left until they sink on their own. The wad of nljf on the left has just been temporarily stuffed in to keep it from floating around. Still need to sort out the foreground plants too. The main problem with the 1st attempt was that I didn't layer enough I guess.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Better indeed


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Great thread. I really need to get my hands on some of that narrow leaf fern in the future. Nice choice of fish.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanx guys 

Now I need some motivation to plant the foreground.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

How about piling up some of that rock holding you wood down in the back two corners to try for that valley effect you were thinking about? Then if you poured some substrate ontop of them you could extend the depth a bit by addding something to the back corners and really drawing the focus into your valley? Either way, I like it, like all of your tanks you do


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^That's actually what I wanted to do. Problem is, I ran out of money and can't afford more aquasoil. I just decided to see if I could create something different with what I already had. I really wanted to do a rock scape with big slopes and lots of stems. I've only got like $40 bucks left on my paypal account. Next time..


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Mild progress. Still waiting on more wood to sink. 1/3 of the java wad will be moved to the left side as soon as the wood finishes water logging it self.


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## battered (Jan 1, 2012)

Any updates on this? Do you just stuff the java fern/anubias in the cracks or do you actually tie it down?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

battered said:


> Any updates on this? Do you just stuff the java fern/anubias in the cracks or do you actually tie it down?


LOL - uh...

This tank is in a transitional state right now. What happened is that about a week after the last update I went on a vacation. Right before I went on vacation, I added more wood on the left side (meaning it had just sunk and it got thrown in) and I also added some 049 witch just got planted at random because I didn't have the proper amount of time to do yet another re-scape before I left. In a nut shell: I just through a bunch of stuff in there and it's been sitting ever since. Now I'm being really lax about the whole thing because I'm thinking about setting up another tank.

The ferns are pretty much just stuffed into cracks. Some of them are tied to bit of old driftwood that sinks and them stuffed into places they fit.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Here is an update:










^ This is what happens when you order some splants and leave on vacation the next day and get lazy.










^ dhg growing emmersed *I don't even know why... Really I just saw it at petsmart and was like 'Oooo!'

(Sorry for the cell photos)


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

I've really got to do something w/ this










Lax doesn't even begin to describe how lazy I've been with this tank. I don't think the filter has been cleaned in about 6 months. I can't remember the last time I did a water change. I've just been topping it off when the lill pipe makes annoying noise when the water level drops too far. I throw some ferts in like, once a week. I don't think I've cleaned the glass since I set it back up. 

That's it! This weekend will be the weekend of change! lol (maybe...)


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

It doesn't look bad IMHO. Just a little sprucing up here and there and it'll be good for another few months.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

audioaficionado said:


> It doesn't look bad IMHO. Just a little sprucing up here and there and it'll be good for another few months.


Thanks. You know, it's only like 1/2 scaped... I kinda got the left side where I wanted it and then left on vacation and just never had the urge to finish it. I just literally planted stuff where there was bare aquasoil. I had intended finishing it up when I got back and just lost interest for a while. It's starting to bug me now though.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

So ashamed


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Mine's much worse


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## 952saint (Jun 29, 2012)

The tanks gone wild!


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Overrun much? :hihi:


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

audioaficionado said:


> Mine's much worse


No way! That sucks, lol


952saint said:


> The tanks gone wild!


For sure.


jkan0228 said:


> Overrun much? :hihi:


Neglected.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Finally did some work on this tank this week. Added co2 again. Cleaned the filter. Did a water change and a little re-scaping. The left side really needs to catch up with the right. 










Edit - I cleaned the pipes after I took this pic. Sorry for the crappy cell phone shot.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Look'n good, I like it better this way!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

150EH said:


> Look'n good, I like it better this way!


Thanks!

I tried for a while to get it just right a couple months, or so, ago. I couldn't get. The other day I just dropped the wood in and that's where it fell on the left side. Sometimes, I guess you just get lucky.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I like it. The uneven-ness works out good  Whats the carpet plants? MQ?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

chad320 said:


> I like it. The uneven-ness works out good  Whats the carpet plants? MQ?


Thanks. I've been thinking I need to really thin out the right side. It's like a huge mass. It's a mix of MM and MQ.


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

simple and fricking beautiful!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

I need some motivation to put this back together again. I'm also a little weary about having a tank on our laminate flooring. I'm a sloppy aquarist.


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## Nanoful (Dec 28, 2012)

U don't have any rimless after all those bad a$$ reg u made!  

Love the green


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

I do. I have a 60 cm rimless. The stand I made for it is open on the bottom. I also have a 10 month old soooo....

I also didn't profit much. I ended up in the hole on that whole endeavor. I really just build them for fun.


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## Nanoful (Dec 28, 2012)

How is the baby! I got your las build b4 the baby coming ! 

Glad c u do up here again


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Hudson is great. Always happy and getting into trouble. 










How's your regulator holding up? I always wonder how they work out for people.


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## Nanoful (Dec 28, 2012)

Not bad! Sometime the low gauge stuck but I guess that is because pressure but if it is not working then I am pm u already! Lol. 
Omg that's only 10 mths, hope he like fish tank


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Nanoful said:


> Not bad! Sometime the low gauge stuck but I guess that is because pressure but if it is not working then I am pm u already! Lol.
> Omg that's only 10 mths, hope he like fish tank


That pic was nine months, he's a pretty big guy. And I hope he doesn't. Haha

All I've really got to do is figure out a new reactor and decide what type of plants I want to use. That and I have no scaping materials on hand.


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

one of the best 20L I remember seeing!!!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

chris.rivera3 said:


> one of the best 20L I remember seeing!!!


Thanks, man. I wish someone would make a rimless 20L. They'd sell a lot of them I bet.


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