# JGs 20G long



## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Hello there folks. Its quite intimidating to post here... so many stunning tanks and such a wealth of knowledge on these forums. I've been lurking around for months reading and soaking up as much as my brain can handle. Trying to learn as much as possible about properly setting up and maintaining a planted tank. Still such a newb as I know lots of lessons only come from experience. 

Now i've managed to get clearance :hihi: to set up a little higher tech tank in the bedroom. This is my first attempt in doing so it should be interesting at the very least. I'd been posting in a journal over at MFT for the 10g hex but figured it would be better to start a journal for the new tank here given the content. 

So now that thats out of the way here we go... man I swear the color on the walls do not look this bad in person, stupid flash. 

The new setup:








20 Gallon long and a stand to match our bedroom furniture. The humidifier will be going away for summertime soon. 

inside:








Will house the XP1, Heater, and eventually CO2 system in here. 

quarantine/breeder 2.5G:








Tank is using all of the remnants from the 10G hex kit. 8W 18K Aquaglo flourescent, Top fin 10 filter, All glass aquarium heater.

So for the 20G long i've ordered/got:
Rena XP1/ extra bio-stars
Current USA Satellite 1x65W + 50/50 dual daylight lamp
Hydor 201 200W heater
ADA aquasoil amazonia 12 liters
Coralife digital timer(s)

Anything I'm forgetting? 

I still have to do more research on the CO2 setup and I'm going to wait to get a UV sterilizer when its closer to setup time. Possibilities on CO2 that I'm looking at range from doing a full blown system with PH controller etc to considering seeing if I can get away with using a small packaged "DIY" system like Red Sea's Turbo CO2 deal. I'm mainly just wanting to grow a nice carpet of HC or Glosso, a little moss, and maybe 2 other species to keep it simple.

I'll be dosing ferts using EI with the Seachem line of liquids until the stock I have runs out. Its going to be a month or so before any setup as I have a week long trip at the end of april. Since this is my first attempt at a high light planted tank I want to wait until I have everything ready to go before even starting so its going to be a very slow setup but obviously well documented to obsession. 

cheers,
J


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## Nightshop (May 12, 2006)

I don't think 12L of AS is enough.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I like your setup. Something I should try lol. It looks very organized.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

nightshop: Yikes really? From the extended info on adgshop..
Standard U.S. 20 gallon (high or long) 1- 2 liter bag Power sand , 1- 9 liter bag + 1- 3 liter bag aquasoil
From my understanding only a light dusting of power sand would be used normally anyway but the AS isn't exactly going to be the only substrate in the tank... hopefully its enough for the masterplan but another order is a click away.  Arghh, I almost got 2 9l bags just to make sure I would have some extra. How much did you use in your 20? 

James: Thanks man. I lucked up that I had been ribbing the wife a little about doing another tank then I did a job for someone one day (took a day off the normal job hehe) that would almost pay for the whole setup sans CO2.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Cant wait to see it up and running.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

So I got around to doing a little bit this weekend...

Aquasoil came in and I you're right Nightshop if this were the only substrate it would totally not be enough. Hopefully I can still get by with my plan without ordering more. Won a used coralife 9w turbo-twist off ebay for half retail. Hopefully it will work ok... seller had a personal picture of the blue light on the top. Picked up a Zilla digital timer/power strip from petsmart (same as the coralife one just re-branded) that was on sale.

I managed to test fill the tank:









While the tanks were removed I went ahead and put down some Kitchen shelf liner for padding/slip protection, re-leveled again, and added a UPS









Im still getting a feel for where things will go when installed. Since these pictures were taken I moved the 2.5G to the cubes next to the tank because the confined space was generating too much heat. I moved both shelves to the left side so I have at least some hope of getting the filter/heater/UV in on one side.
While the tank was draining from the test fill I decided to get another small project started. Adding pre-filter sponges to the intakes for both tanks. I had purchased one a while back on another order so it only cost me a few bones.
And I still have some left over for user later.  

Supplies:









And after some hacking:









I went ahead and unboxed the new light fixture too so here it is currently (before moving the nano):









I took a nice long walk through the woods behind my house and found the sticks that went into the 2.5G. I know its probably better not to do so but its only temporary. 

Got a metric ton of Peacock moss from a member here in the swap n shop and tied tons to river stones for use in the 20 when the time comes. I've added the AS to the 2.5 and jump started the filtration with some donor bio-carts from my other tank. Hopefully the impending ammonia spike doesn't kill off all of the moss. :O 

I'll try to get a pic of that sooner or later. 
Still need several things before I can do any further tank setup...
choosing driftwood or rocks or both etc... then finding the right pieces is a whole other deal. I have an idea what I want to do scape wise (its going to be so newb) but until I have the hardscape in my hands I'm not pouring an ounce of substrate in. 
Going to pick up a perfecto glass top this afternoon since four large breed dogs sleep in the room at night :O to prevent hairy tank syndrome.

For those who read this and provide any insight I thank you. I'm so totally new to the hobby that I know there tons of "gotcha"s. Of course when I finally do get around to getting the hardscape components I'm going to be asking for opinions. 

If anyone cares to offer up advice, I'm strongly considering attempting to do this tank with no CO2. Is it possible to get good plant growth and little algae with just a good fert regime and lighting period?

Thanks,
James


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

James(feels wierd to say that :eek5, I bet you cant wait to have it set up. I cat wait, I know that for sure.

-James


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks man. I guess maybe thread replies will pick up once I start figuring out the hardscape. 

I'm anxious to get everything going too but I think by having a plan and sorting everything out first I'll be saving myself work and potential for problems later. Its really hard to walk in every day and see the tank waiting to be set up. 

I did a quick ammonia check on the 2.5G yesterday that's been set up since monday... it was ~4 ppm. Did a pretty big water change (70%) just to make sure the moss doesn't suffer any ill effects. My non-calibrated nitrate kit is reading 10 ppm so at least there are some bacteria present in the tank. Only some pond snails in there ATM anyway.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*ghetto iwagumi*

So on the way home yesterday I decided to stop off at a local landscaping yard to see what kind of rocks they had available. I found it pretty funny to ask someone who was accustomed to selling by the ton to sell me a few rocks for an aquarium. I think he may have gotten a giggle out of it also. They were sold to me as "pressure washed river stones" or "I have no idea man they are just rocks". Either way he only charged me a few bucks for as many as I could carry. As much as I'd like to order some nice shou stones etc. I just can't bring myself to spend $3.99 a pound +shipping on something
I can't personally pick out. 
I tried to pick out stones with some character and of course I did this on a whim so I had no way to measure the rocks. I think the ones I picked out may be too large? 
What good is a post without pictures right?

unwashed rocks:









Gave them a good twice over with a brush under running water:









After a few more beverages I decided to give a few attempts... I did not do any measurements for the 1.618234 rule :O but did have that in mind as well as trying to visualize a focal point. Keep in mind that I have no idea what I am doing here. Just looking for honest opinions, trust me feelings will not be hurt. 
try #1:








#1 right:








#1 left:









try #2








#2 right:








#2 left:









#3









If an iwagumi style setup is decided on (still haven't decided on adding driftwood too) it will probably be some fast growing stems behind the main set of rocks on the left at least until the tank gets somewhat established. Planning HC or something similar for ground cover around the rocks with moss tied to smaller stones breaking up the division of soil/sand. Nothing original but I gotta start somewhere. 

So opinions? Feedback? Please someone throw the newb a bone.


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## Finch_man (Mar 21, 2006)

I think you should get rid of the rock and use something more sharp..


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## Fosty (Oct 17, 2003)

I really like those rocks actually. All three of the setups look pretty good to me. To be honest, I like the way you have them on the towel in the second picture (not in the tank). I don't think you could go wrong with any of those layouts. 

Good Luck!


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

I like all of them, especially 1.
i think you may want white substrate, it looks good with those, but black may look good too!


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

The small rock on the right side of the left group is out of place. I'd remove it entirely. 

I think you should use glosso for this layout, because I think it will look good with the rounded stones, especially when it grows really thick.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

I agree #1 or #2 without the small rock on the right would look good if you are set on using these rocks. Like mrbelvedere stated, Glosso or Marsiela Minuta would look great with the stones.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback! I'll try a few more arrangements this week and take those suggestions into account. 

Finally got the UV sterilizer this weekend so its not too far from setup time. Gotta clean it up really good though as it looks like it came from a SW setup. :-/


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*movin' along*

Alright got a chance to do a little this past few saturdays considering it was too cold outside to do anything else. :O And now I have some time as I sit at the dealership waiting on an oilchange.

I cleaned up the Turbo-twist really good and got everything installed in the cabinet. A razorblade did a good job cleaning whatever kind of saltwater buildup was present on the Quartz sleeve. XP1>UV>Hydor, I was really happy that I didn't have to buy more tubing. 

After trying a few more layouts I decided that there was no way I could settle on anything until I had the substrate in the tank the way I wanted it. Put the rocks in the tank in the area that I generally wanted them to be and marked off the borders with poster board. 

Semi-final placement:









Added dividers and started filling:









All of the AS in the tank I started fiddling with the rock placement again, the wife helped at the viewing angle from the bed and we found something that agreed with the both of us. At this point several of the rocks I was using to brace the posterboard had to be used in the hardscape so I filled tumblers with sand to replace them:









After that was all settled it was time to chuck in the sand. I used ghetto ADA bright sand a.k.a. pool filter sand from home depot:









And one final photo for this one. After removing the dividers / smoothing everything out and adding water. Wasn't too terrible of a job for a first timer, I guess I could have gotten the line a little cleaner but its nothing that can't be cleaned up a bit. 









High point is on the right sloping down to the second section of soil, the slope then angles back up a bit to the back left corner. I tried to keep the back higher than the foreground at all points.


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## uncskainch (Feb 22, 2005)

I can't wait to see it planted -- that's a very nice stand and a great idea to build in a quarantine tank under the stand!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*fillup time*

One of the things which I didn't give enough consideration to that just happened to work out. The placement of the filter intake and powerjet, I had totally already made up my mind about how I wanted the slopes to look and it was pure luck that they even fit in the tank properly. 

So the plan now is to fill the tank and change 50% of the water every two days over the next several weeks. I primed the XP1 with a whole (I run 2 in the 10G hex) bio-cart from an aqua-clear 20. I'm hoping that the ammonia leeching from the new AS will be enough to feed the bacteria and partially at least cycle the tank for me. Once the ammonia levels are <1ppm before a water change I'll chunk a few white clouds in to keep everything going until the plantlife arrives. 
I'm doing this for a few reasons. I didn't want newly purchased plants to melt on me and I'll be out of town for a week at the end of this month. Other than that I just ordered all of the stuff to set up my DIY CO2 and it will take a bit to get here. Mike at aquatic magic has good stuff but it takes a while. 

Now for the filling stage... I had broken the 2.5G down earlier that morning and used my leftover rocks to make a little mini scape in that. I planted a few cutttlings in there from the Hex tank (ludwiga repens, palustris) and apparently did a horrible job re-filling it or I disturbed the AS too much. It had been several hours and the water in the tank was looking bad. I didn't want to make the same mistake with the 20. 

First I placed a full size plate in the tank and used a towel to cover up the outlet of the water bottle to slow the flow. I filled the tank tediously slow until the water covered the AS totally. As I went along I used a tablespoon to knock down any floating chunks of soil. Needless to say it took a very long time, I have no idea how folks with larger tanks manage this. 









After Filling the tank I added the moss rocks in just to see how my coverage was going to be... that and I wanted a barrier before I cranked up the XP1. I ended up turning the powerjet down about halfway, but I'm getting good waterflow around the tank. I removed the moss rocks back to the 2.5G when I was finished with the pics. I'm scared to leave them in there and run the lighting until CO2 and more plants are present. Don't want to START with an algae outbreak. 

Some pics of the filled tank with filtration running:


















Left:









Right:









Flat shot:









I was impressed by how just working very slowly with filling the tank how clear the initial setup looked. Granted it was fairly yellowish today when I did the first of the 50% water changes. 

Thats it for now I believe... lots of water changes and testing for the next couple of weeks. Then DIY CO2 fun, then planting. I do have a fauna plan also but that comes after the tank is stable... 

Cheers.

Edit: Just incase anyone is super observant there is a slight level issue with the right side of the tank being a bit low. I'll be fixing that issue during one of the water changes.


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## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

looking really nice! i likes


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## Shadow (Sep 19, 2006)

I adsolutly love the tank XD

Yeah i can't wait to re-do my shrimp tank. I have something planned like that as well. But i plan a smaller path and have tons of rocks with moss. As the tank right now is Floating with moss and and has crypts everywhere. I ant to create more of a forest type shrimp tank I think it would look nice.


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Looks sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!
i love the moss border, it softens that sand/AS transition alot.
you made an awesome layout.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Really nice looking Mr. JG,... But why no spraybar? Are you keeping the flow to a specific area?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks you guys.

Shadow: My muse tank has a smaller path that splits 3 ways but I decided that my current skill level dictated that it would be way too hard for me to attempt it. 

tropicalfish: Good question on the lack of spraybar... I thought it stuck out too much in the tank and my only option was to put it on the back side where the powerhead outlet is. With the powerhead turned down half way there is really good flow throughout the tank granted it is pretty barren in there right now. I might eventually have to put the spraybar on. It really depends on how the plants hold up in the powerjet path. 
Is there any other reason that I SHOULD be using the spraybar instead? 

Still doing my 50% water changes every few days... it sucks.  I couldn't imagine putting AS in a 60 or 100 Gallon and having to do this without a sump system. It would be downright brutal on your back. The water is still looking nice and yellow at water change time so there is still a good way to go on settling the AS down. Got another week then I'm in Vegas for a week, might do a 80% before leaving to make up for being gone. 

Got some things on order from Mike at aquaticmagic as I wrote before. Nice diffusor, rhinox tubing, drop checker, and finally some nice planting/pruning tools. I've seen in the 2.5g what it means to disturb the soil when planting and I hope to avoid that as much as possible when it comes time to plant this puppy. The 2.5G is on the same waterchange schedule and after 4 changes the water is finally starting to get more polished looking. This tank has a few weeks head start on the process. 
Here's the half-attempt at doing a mini-scape in it. I'm sure its going to change, there are so many really cool 2.5G tanks that folks on these forums have going that give me plenty of direction.  

The whole idea of using this tank as a breeder/quarantine is obviously out the door. I'll probably buy another to store in the cabinet for that purpose. Me and the wife were looking at dwarf puffers and she totally fell in love with them which is cool because I've been wanting to try one for a while. Hes been demolishing snails as I put them in the tank and surprisingly hes also eating bloodworms too. I guess he hasn't realized that the ghost shrimp in there with him are food. I tried to get a good pic of him but... my camera sucks and he looks like a dp.  

We thought it would be funny to name him "pickle". HaHa!


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Looks really nice,... too bad the heater that came with your 10 gallon hexagon kit wasn't a Visi-Therm Deluxe (older model). How much are you planting that tiny tank?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Hehe. I hear ya on the heater. The plan was initially to make the 2.5G a very cheap setup since the majority of the play money I had at the moment was going into the 20g. It will probably get upgraded in a month or two but since there is a working heater in there its not a priority at the moment. 

How much to plant it... thats a good question. Pretty much all of the moss covered rocks in there are moving to the 20. The 2 little sprigs of ludwiga I just chucked in there after pruning the 10g. I'd like to get some HC or Pellia growing in there as ground cover with maybe some pearl grass and moss but will probably have to upgrade the lighting first (only a 8w fixture with no reflector even). Cydric's 2.5G in the nano section as well as a few others come to mind when I think about how I would like it to turn out. I'm probably going to have a good amout of plants left over when I finally get going on the 20 so I'll more than likely do them at the same time.


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## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

Now there is 3 James's here  nice nournal it will definetly help me out once i start out my 20 gallon long.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Just a little text update for now...

20G:
Things are progressing with the tank nicely. The last two water changes have been much clearer so maybe 1-2 more and it should be crystal clear. I'll be happy to get on a regular weekly/semi-monthly cycle with the WC for sure. 
Hopefully all of the plants will be here this week. Rotala sp. green from Boun is floating away in there right now. HC, Blyxa j., and something else sweet should be here today/tomorrow. I should be able to plant it all at once and get a nice update with pictures this weekend. I know the traditional Iwagumi style has no stem plants but I'm not necessarily following the rules anyway.  I'm crossing my fingers to hope all goes well.

I've had the Spio III diffuser and drop checker in the tank for the last week or so staring at me so yesterday I figured I'd better get the DIY CO2 rig setup and running before all the plants arrive. Stopped by the grocery on the way home and picked up Jello, Yeast, Couple of 1.8L Gatorade bottles, and a pack of adult beverages. It was great to see the look on my wife's face when I was making jello as she walked in from work. It got even funnier when I told her I was going "Bill Nye" on the fish tank and making a CO2 reactor. :O I'm following the directions from an old posting here. Once the jello was cured in shallow Tupperware containers (I have pictures that I'll chuck up this weekend), I sliced it up into squares to place in the Gatorade bottle. Added the warm water/yeast and hooked it up to the diffuser. I already had a check valve installed on the tank side tubing, I plan on making a drop checker/gas separator between now and sunday to add in but I didn't have a suitable bottle ready like a goober. I have no idea how long it took for it to start generating... after several hours there was nothing happening. The last thing I need is this thing exploding in our newly re-finished bedroom. So before bed I double checked to make sure the pressure wasn't building up anywhere by removing the cap, there was very little buildup so I felt confident enough to sleep. Woke up this morning and its going like gangbusters. I didn't have time to count but it is at least putting out 1bps. I'm wondering at this point if this is going to be adding too much CO2 to the tank, good thing is there are no fishes to worry about at this point. I'm sure the plants will be ok. The drop checker hopefully should tell the tale by then hopefully.

2.5g:
This tank got a total re-do on monday afternoon. I got a ton of Dwarf Sag. plantlets from a RAOK and some Rotala 'green' and 'colorata' also. Its only housing the Dwarf Puffer so I removed him and proceeded to remove everything sans the aquasoil. I added a good bit of sand underneath the soil on the backside to give a stronger gradient and changed the rock layout burying quite a bit more of the lower portion of the rocks. Once everything was planted I added a light layer of sand around the front side and mixed it in a bit with some soil for a different look. I'd like to give each of our tanks their own distinct style if I can. I made sure to be very careful not to squish or break up any of the AS pellets while re-arranging and planting. After all was done I did 4-5 complete water changes to remove any silt that I kicked up (I did the scape beside the kitchen sink). I have before/after pics that I'll link this weekend. Its not eye popping quite yet but I think the new layout is more of a step in the right direction. I think at this point I'm going to make a dedicated nano journal for this tank to keep everything separated. 

'Tis it for now. Thanks to those who read as opposed to just looking at pictures.


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

sounds lik you're hav'n fun!
Can't wait to see what you come up with with the Hc and Blyxa.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Nice!
Is there any update on the 10 gallon hex?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

This will be my first exp planting HC so I have my fingers crossed. Thankfully I ordered a nice set of curved scissors and long planting tweezers that made the nano much easier to deal with. 

tf: I might snag a few pics of the hex this weekend if I can. Its mainly on cruise control right now and I'm going to let everything grow in as much as possible before the next trim. Its got mad snails in it right now too because I'm trying to breed pond and ramshorns for the DP to eat. I'm finding it hard to intentionally overfeed so they will have food.  
Other than that though it seems cool, just dosing every couple days and doing regular wc. Did notice a little algae on the moss covered driftwood closest to the light that I pulled out with a toothbrush. I'm keeping a very close eye on that situation. I'm hoping that its just because thats so close to the light, may have to drop an hour of the lighting schedule if it comes back.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*Arghhh*

So all plants are here. Blyxa Japonica was delivered today, 12 lovely plants I'm sure...
Sadly my boxer got to the package before I did because my idiot carrior put it on the porch. So I'm in dire need of 10-12 Blyxa plants if ANYONE has some for sale. 

I'll be using an alternate shipping address from now on.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

So I have some time this evening for a little update, going to include some pics of the DIY CO2 setup and a few shots of the tank post and pre planting...

Got Jello?









The reactor after chunking all the blocks of jello in and adding the yeast...









Please disregard the Cherrios, a man has to have his frosted cereal.  

A nice pic of the tank with all the plants floating, this probably has the best representation color wise of how it actually looks.









Sadly I attempted to wait until I had all the plants before I started planting, unfortunately a good portion of the beautiful HC that I had purchased perished and turned to mush before I could plant it. Granted it was 100 Deg. F in my car the day I left work when it came, it probably sat in the mailbox for at least 3 hours in that and it still looked awesome! Hopefully enough survived to get a start on the lawn, assuming I can now make whats left grow.  
Got a nice sized portion of Rotala sp. green and the moss from Boun, some Eriocaulaceae type 2 from ianiwane, and the HC from Wö£fëñxXx (sorry I let most of it die bro, still makes me mad thinking about it). Don't hesitate to buy plants from these gents, great quality and supa-fast shipping. If fact Boun hooked me up with some Blyxa since the Boxer munched my last shipment. Thanks again!

I'm hoping that the Rotala will kinda hide most of the intake and equipment on the left side. Blyxa is going in front of the rotala and on the right side beside/behind the rocks. 



















Obviously I decided to go with the spraybar instead of the powerjet... Still can't quite remember why... 
The moss barriers kinda dominate everything at the moment but hopefully it will not appear to stick out so bad once everything grows in a bit.
Some thoughts on planting. Seemed to go fairly well, HC wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be to plant. Hopefully this is enough plant mass to get me through the early stages without any major algae problems. Speaking of... its been on the 8 hour light schedule for 3 days and the algae is already pearling lol. Stopped by the LFS today to pick up some Amanos and somebody was directly in front of me buying the last few.  
I'm going to try to snag a couple out of my hex if I can catch them while they are out. I'm guessing at this point I still need water changes and probably some nitrates. I'm also guessing since I'm seeing algae that the CO2 isn't quite where it needs to be either. Its time to re-do the water/yeast and add more than 1/2 tsp yes?


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## Jessica (Mar 1, 2007)

I think this is a really beautiful layout! It looks really clean and clear, nice work!

Maybe move the spray bar and diffuser to the sides of the tank to let those pretty rocks get all the attention?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks Jessica. I seem to remember during the dry setup that I couldn't manage to fit the spraybar on the side, its only 12 inches deep, which is why I initially used the powerjet. I may have had one too many spacers on it though but I do agree with you. Next time I'm in there I'll see what can be moved to clear the background up a bit.


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

Well the tank looks really nice JG, congratulations, and I like the hardscape. My new favorite look is white sand between black substrate like Eco Complete or ADA Amazonia, looks great


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Took a few pics this weekend of the tank with the Bylxa japonica planted. After checking out the pics I'm hoping to get suggestions on keeping algae at bay until everything is established...



















Rotala sp. green starting to adjust and the Erio has fresh bright green tops already:









Full tank shot:









And one shot from the bed (clicky for large image):


Now there is an algae problem thats cropping up already. Looks like hair or thread maybe. I cleaned as much as I could off of the sand and from the moss before these pics. I also seem to be getting this white/semi-transparent snotty looking stuff thats cropping up in the drop checker AND on the ceramic disk of the diffuser. I removed most of that before the pictures also but it will come back in a day or so. So here is a pic of the hair/thread algae (click for larger image):
 

Since the algae is taking off I did a 50% WC and did some tests before hand...
PH 6
KH 2
NO2 0
NH3 0
NO3 20
PO4 2

From those assuming that nothing else is mucking with PH/KH I should have too much CO2 in the tank by a little. I've also read that hair/thread will be a problem when the bio-filter isn't established or when there are silicates present in the sand (crap!). So just to give the complete story, I have added some nitrogen to attempt to slow the algae which should explain the somewhat elevated levels of nitrates. Seeing that I have very little/no ammonia/nitrites appears to lead to having an established filter so I'm leaning towards maybe the sand I used contains silicates... Its pavestone pool filter sand. There was nothing on the bag that mentioned containing them and there is nothing on the companies website for documentation. Going to research some more when I get the chance.

The lighting is only on 8 hours daily. 

Other things:

Added the 8 White Cloud minnows from the Hex tank, they seem to be doing great and really loving swimming in the powerjet flow. The hex only has a HOB.

Went back to the powerjet and moved the diffuser to attempt to hide it a bit. I still don't like the water circulation at this point. The powerjet is blowing directly on the Erio and its going to make the growth look funky and I don't believe I'm getting the best circulation with it the way it is anyway. Should I have the intake/output opposite each other? Would that help any? It just really sucks that the spraybar will NOT fit on the tank's side glass... unless I cut/modify the spraybar. :O

I added a couple of RCS after a second trip to my semi-lfs (40 min drive) when I called before hand to be sure they had amano shrimp (which they did not). 'Tis ok though, this gives the Clouds a nice test to see if they pick on the shrimp. I'm planning on adding CRS to this tank soon with or without the Clouds depending on their attitude. They seem to be ok so far. Once the CRS come I'll be moving the cherries to the Hex with the betta/amanos. I mainly just needed something to hopefully start taking a chunk out of the algae outbreak. 

Still open to suggestions, especially those concenring getting good circulation or helping run down the algae spawning.


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## jeffboyarrdee (Aug 25, 2004)

yo! i love your tank! i really like that sand...its more comparable to the ADA rio ***** sand, but i cant find it anywhere, im gonna have to goto Home depot and get some of that. Did you call it pool filter sand?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Hey jeff thanks for the reply. Been following your ADA tanks and they both look great! 
Its Pavestone pool filter sand and it was outside around the pool supplies in home depot. I haven't had time to search or email to see what the sand's contents are. I'm having some algae issues in the new tank in the moss and sand area and I'm suspecting that the sand contains silicates... Honestly I'm not really sure what that means but I seem to recall all conversations about it to be a bad thing. Still trying to figure out if it should be removed or if the problems will pass etc..


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## turbosaurus (Nov 19, 2005)

Salicilates have more to do with diatom algae I think. I don't belive they have anything to do with hair. 

IME, I have gotten Hair algae when my nitrates were bottoming out. I got rid of it by staying on top of the nitrates and keeping them around 10-20. It worked pretty quickly (within a couple days the growth stopped and within 2 there was noticably less- without anything to eat it) I've read that excess micros will cause it. I think in my case I could have been starving my plants of nitrate so they couldn't use the trace I was adding. I didn't change my trace, or K or P, just upped my nitrate. YMMV

Tank looks very good. For a new tank- that algae is Nothing! If I were you I might try to see if I can get it to look like there is more of a bend in that left side boundary by adjusting the moss rocks. I'd like to see if you can make it look like more of a curve in the road, right now it appears a bit too straight line to be perfect- otherwise I want one just like it!


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## FelixAvery (Jan 11, 2007)

just do a 25% wc every day for a week, and shove a load of stems in there (dont planth them)

and get a timer for your life and do this

say it turns on at 8 oclock or something

4 hours on > 1hour off > 5hours on > 2 hours off > 2 hours on
this will not affect plant growth but will halm the algae 
all credit for the lighting thing goes to justin law


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Turbosaurus + FelixAvery: Thank you both for the replies, this is the beginning of my first high light tank so I'm totally freakin' out.  

Regarding my last post I completely forgot to disclose that I chucked a purigen pack in the filter on sunday. I know thats going to affect my nitrate numbers etc. for a bit but I figured it couldn't hurt. Tests in previous post were done pre-purigen. 

Turbosaurus: Thanks for the suggestions. I had those same thoughts which is why I added the nitrogen initially. I went ahead and added another 1.25mL dose today just to be sure. Also did a 15mL overdose of Excel and a 2.5mL dose of potassium to make sure NPK were all up. I'm hoping that 2ppm of phosphates is enough for the moment. I have not dosed traces since planting.
I'm watching the clouds and shrimp closely just incase I wen't too far with the excel.

FelixAvery: thank you also bro. I have some wisteria and ludwiga in the hex that I can trim and chuck in there. On the lighting I only have the timer set for 8 hours a day. Its got 7-8 timers on it so I'll also adjust that bad boy to break up the lighting a bit. 

I took a few pics this afternoon when I arrived home. This was before checking the forums... the last pictures were on sunday after removal and this is today. Clicky for bigger images...



And this is the "snotty" stuff that is growning:


Any suggestions as to what this might be? or how to get rid of it? It seems to like the diffuser disk or the drop checker. I haven't seen it accumulating anywhere else. 

It seems to me like some pressurized CO2 action is on the horizon. I changed the outflow to point up to try to outgas some of the co2 going in and now the drop checker is showing green. Rotala green is pearling nicely, but the algae is growing fast.


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## retoid (Jan 2, 2007)

I had a problem with that white slimey stuff growing on the outflow of my DIY haggen co2. After I started adding fertilizer to my tank it solved the problem.

I have no idea what exactly the cause is for it. But like I said when my planbts were under fertilized it was showing up.

Maybe it could have something to do with your co2 ingredient mixture. Possibly to much yeast or sugar?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Its the byproduct slime of the DIY yeast...it usually happens on any DIY Co2 and requires periodic cleaning, but its nothing that I would be too concerned about.

That is some crazy Algae you got there. Hope you can kick it...Other than that, tank is banging!!


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## jeffboyarrdee (Aug 25, 2004)

thanks JG the hair algae looks bad...but the best thing to do is watch ferts, and just start tearing the algae out. amano's will also clean it right up! and the fuzzy white stuff always appeared when i used to do diy yeast mixtures with or without jello. It didnt seem to do any harm to the tank except look bad, just suck it up with water changes.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the replies again. I'm really glad to hear that at least the white slime is "normal" with DIY setups. So odd that I never read anyone mention it in my reading, must be DIY CO2's dirty little secret. Either way its pretty gross so I'm going to be pricing some pressurized setups today, I can't also be growing snot in my sad attempt at a nature aquarium.  

So algae war will be waged. I followed everyones suggestions to start the attack on multiple levels. Added nitrates + excel, added 4-5 ludwiga stems and several wisteria stems with bundles of aerial roots to suck up excess nutrients, changed the lighting timer to add in 3-4 hours of darkness between the normal 8 hour cycle. Then I sat down with a few rolling rocks, tweezers, and a toothbrush and cleaned as much as I could from the moss and blyxa, there looked to be very little attaching to the Erio and Rotala. I'm guessing this is going to be a daily process for a bit along with the waterchanges or this algae beast its going to take over the tank. Arghhh and I had just gotten finished with the initial Aquasoil 50% every other day waterchanges! Stupid ammonia.  
Back to comforting thoughts... 
with the pressurized setup I'm leaning more towards something small like the paintball canister setups since I have little room left in the cabinet. I'm off to Rex G.'s site now to see if there is anything available there. Thoughts?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

MrJG said:


> Thoughts?


not enough plants sucking up nutrients.. you need to stack that place full of stem plants.

edit: 

I can see spots where you could probably plant out up to 40 stems 'worth' of plants.. I would go with 5 or 6 bunches of your favourite stem plants and stick them in.


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## jeffboyarrdee (Aug 25, 2004)

yea, its good that you are doing the 50% water changes every other day to dilute that ammonia. ADA soil seems to leach alot of nitrogens into the tank in the beginning which is kinda sucky if you dont have beneficial bacteria in the beginning. that is why amano usually stacks his tanks with alot of plants...and gets expensive =X. But yea with the hairy stringy algae its gonna take some work to defeat it, just keep up the work! i know you can do it. pressurized CO2 should make a difference as well because a consistant constant supply makes a difference in plant growth and competing with algae, also you wont have to worry about poisoning your fish if you put it on a timer! goodluck! happy algae killing!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks nornicle. I was hoping to not have to do that as I wanted to start a carpet but I totally understand the reasoning and maybe should have done that from the beginning, then added the carpet later once things were somewhat established. 

I think I'm going to attempt to battle this as I have it set up currently. Trying to decide to either cut down the lighting period to 4-5 hours total a day or to put the original 50/50 actinic bulb back in the fixture which should cut my wattage in half until the plants get established and can manage better nutrient usage. I'll keep up the water changes and manual removals of course and maybe nuke the moss stones with something this weekend if there is no visible improvement (not in the tank of course). 

If it fails all is well there is always the re-start and I can chalk this one up to a learning experience. I knew the higher light realm wasn't going to be easy in the beginning. 

Jeff: Hopefully something is in the works on some CO2, I gotta search around to see if there is somewhere local to re-fill or exchange tanks. I should have done it from the start but figured I'd give DIY a whip since lots of folks seem to have no issues with it. Even if it did the job I can't deal with the white slime. 

Thanks for everyones replies so far!


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Actaully, i find that actinic only cuts wattage for higher plants, diatom and clado love actinic in my case!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Yikes I certainly don't want the claudo.  

So since my acre of terrestrial scape was trimmed yesterday and I had nothing better to do than watch the Braves blow a game against the Nats I decided to fire the first volley of the algae war. I started manually removing what I could, cleaned the glass, toothbrushed the rocks, then I figured why not just take out the moss rocks and clean them in a bucket. So I pulled them out and finished the waterchange and tank cleaning duties. Replaced the dual daylight bulb with the dual 10K + actinic bulb. 
When pulling the moss rocks out I finally noticed just how much they had grown since I put them in the tank. They rode through most of the aquasoil leeching period and they must have been eating those extra nutrients the whole time. Instead of trying to clean them I just decided it was time to trim them back anyway. I had NO idea just how much moss was there. 

I think the steps are working as there was visibly less algae growth between Monday>today as there was from Saturday>Monday if that makes sense. 

Since I update like I have no life I took some pics too... :O

Lots of floaters. Chucked more rotala, ludwiga, and creeping jenny floaters in today.









Trimmed moss:









I'll be doing a twisted RAOK for the trimmed moss shortly. Its peacock moss and its very bright/healthy other than the algae.  

Another development worth mentioning, I broke my glass top like an idiot. Mental note NOT to place glass top on the floor beside the tank while doing maintenance. IDIOT. This was a few days ago and I actually had a jumper this evening while working. I have no idea how long he was on the floor (whit cloud). But when I finally noticed he was laying there covered in dog hair (gross!) and I chucked him in one of the plant containers I had sitting idle. Seems to be no ill effects but I guess he could be a little slow now.  Hopefully I get the new top before another decides to hop out. 

Back to heineken... at least smoltz might get to pitch against dice k. on saturday.


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

I broke a glass top too by laying it on the ground- join the club, lol.
I would leave the normal bulb in, with acctinic you're taking light away from your plants and giving it to algae.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its been a bit so its time for an update. 

Seems like the algae fighting steps are slowing the growth down fairly well. Multiple weekly WC, Nitrate dosing, manual removal, light for 5 hours a day are the steps I've been taking so far. It only seems to be living on the moss currently and its ridiculously hard to get it out of the fronds. I'm guessing because thats the slowest growing plantlife in the tank. 
I just started a low level EI dosing schedule last week. I hadn't been adding any micros up to this point and figured it was about time to start. Still burning through the seachem liquid ferts I have and considering getting some dry ferts once those run out.
Everything seems to be growing very well even the semi-algae covered moss.  Rotala sp. Green has been trimmed down once and is almost ready for its first proper trim @ about 3-4 inches from the substrate so it will fill in nice and thick. Erio Type 2 is out of control, I had no idea this plant had the tendency to look so weedy. Its very uniform in its patterns but its very hard to tell one stem from another once its grown in. The wife has mentioned that she doesn't like it for this reason but its in there until the algae issues are under control. Blyxa is looking green and healthy with little issues from adjusting to the tank. HC is bright green and living but hasn't taken hold to start spreading rapidly quite yet. I'm hoping it gets going soon though. 

I pulled the Amano shrimp from the hex and bought two super red cherry adult shrimp from a lfs to help with the hair algae. I also bought 12 RCS juvenilles from a member here to shore up the front lines. The rocks are staying nice an clean since the additions and they are doing a really nice job keeping the hair from taking over the HC plantlings. 

So pictures... 
Full tank shot (sorry for the floaters... I'm lazy to a fault sometimes):









Right side: 









Some of the HC on the right side:









A few of the RCS juvie soldiers:









One of the "super" RCS:









An attempt at a 3/4 shot:









Thanks for looking/reading!


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## hassan (May 18, 2007)

i love it , great job ^^


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## Dr.Nick (Jan 8, 2006)

Great tank , HC will look great when filled out.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

beautiful tank!


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

cool, In Your experience, does the eriocaulicae Tp. 2 stay whitish light green all the time?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*james-1 algae-0 snails-lots*

Thanks for the comments folks. 

Dufus: The Erio is some pretty bright stuff. Probably a few shades lighter than wisteria. That being said given my lack of camera skills I rarely get a good picture of it because the image tends to burn into the white overexposed look. I think I finally have a decent one in this update. 

So... things are well with the tank. I'm still working through getting the DIY CO2 mixture dialed in. I tend to get too much in the first 48 hours or so of re-doing the mixture so to compensate I added an airstone that I can hook up at any time to bleed some off. I've been running it on the night timer just because its there now. Still considering pressurized but the DIY seems to be working well and it looks like I'm only going to have to make a new jello mixture once a month.
The hair algae is gone. I have some diatoms I guess that I'm having to scrape once every few weeks but thats managable. Got all of the floaters out of the tank and the lighting has been on a solid 8 hour schedule for about 3 weeks with no re-emergence of the hair algae. 

Now that the algae battle is in check I have a new enemy... seems that at some point I inherited a snail that likes to eat Erio type2 and blyxa. I had noticed that the lower leaves were looking shreaded for a bit. I was thinking that it was some form of deficiency since I've never had any problems with snails eating plants. I saw a thread here with a picture of the exact snail that I remember seeing at an early stage of setting up the tank. I thought it looked cool so I left it in there, big mistake. I might be talking out of my [email protected]# but I think it breed with the pond snails in the tank. the original snail looked like a flat ramshorn, meaning when it moved the swirl shell was flat to the surface. Since I intentionally overfeed to harvest the snails for the puffer what I've ended up with are snails that look somewhat like pond snails but one side of the shell is kinda squared off. Once they get big enough you can see brown spots on them. And they are hungry... 
I've been manually removing them for the past week and I've got a decent amount of them out, I only had maybe 30-40 that I've been able to get out so far and I've only seen maybe 2 since my last snail-fest. Hopefully once these are gone the old parts of the Erio T2 will rebound, still looks good though considering they seemed to only like the older portions. 

Plant updates... well other than the obvious from above. The Blyxa continues to grow well. It's really hard to tell until I come back and look at my last update to the thread. The HC is sloooowly starting to creep around. I guess these folks that are growing a ridiculous HC lawn in a month are pushing more light than I am? I'm not impatient though and its healthy and algae free now so thats all that matters. The Rotala sp. green is recovering and filling in pretty well from its first proper cut @ 3-4 inches from the substrate. Its going to be time to trim up the peacock moss rocks again soon.

All that said how about some pictures... these are from June 16th and I'm just getting time to post them.

Looks like I forgot to get a full shot from straight on so we'll start with a 3/4 shot (clicky for bigger):



one with the flash:









HC on the left (one of the devil snails in this pic):









A left side shot:









HC on the right side:









Closeup of the Peacock moss:









One of the sand path (I think this one shows the Erio's color well):









A shot of the lenght of the tank from the right:









And one from the left:









Thats it for now. Cheers.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Wow I love your layout, It has great depth


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*quick picture update*

Just a quick update, time has been a tad short lately. Still plenty of time for dosing and water changes though.  

I hadn't noticed just how much the blyxa has grown out in 2 months until I saw the last update... yikes. The HC is starting to make a little headway now too, maybe by the end of the year I can have that carpet lawn look going. 




























oh yea I almost forgot! My white cloud minnows spawned. I have 11-12 juvenilles in the tank now and they are doing quite well... I have no idea what I'm going to do with them once they get bigger.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Did a fairly good trim today and posting some new pics for my "for trade" post... 
Took a good amount of HC trimmings and replanted them during the trim. Still rockin' the DIY CO2 setup. After adding a secondary chamber there is no more white slime issue and now that its setup its fairly low maintenance. 

Full shot









Eriocaulaceae type II









another...


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## CJ (Plant Freak) (Jun 1, 2007)

Good-looking tank... I haven't seen Erio T2 before and I'm liking it... blyxa also looking great... How many WPG has this tank got? (sorry, if you have already mentioned it)...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

CJ thanks for the comments. Its a 65w PC. I think the bulb is a combo 10K/6.7K spectrum and I have it on a timer lighted for ~8 hours a day.

I didn't like the Erio 2 at first because it seemed very weedy for what I was accustomed to but its very easily sculpted and shaped. The new growth on the plant is just stunning but very hard to get a good picture of with a color so bright.


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## CJ (Plant Freak) (Jun 1, 2007)

Thanks, 

could I ask where you got the erio from? As I said, I haven't seen it before...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

CJ I snagged the Erio from the swap and shop here on the forums. I think it was Ianiwane that I bought it from. There are a few listings for it in there now including one with trimmings from my tank but both are in the US.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

This will be a fairly picture heavy update...

Added a few Downoi (6-7) and a couple of stems of Eriocaulon Type 3. I think there were 6 stems initially and it looks like maybe 2 are going to re-bound and not melt (erio). Also added 10 S grade CRS and a couple of Black Diamonds, heres to hoping they breed as readily as the White Clouds seem to be. They've already spawned several more times and I'm almost overun with fry right now. I have someone local who is going to take all of them off of my hands though so this may become a shrimp only tank depending on if they breed or not. 

Lets start out with some recent tank pictures. The ones that are clickable have a GIANT sized version.

Full tank shots:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Now some shrimp pics... I hope I'm not going overboard with so many pics but I must admit I'm fairly excited about having them. Clicky the acctive ones for MEGA sized cropped versions.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

MrJG-

I have just read through your thread and it was very interesting. I'm happy to see that you survived the algae war! I know how challenging it can be. I would like to make a few suggestions. 1st I think that you can achieve much better growth with the HC if you give it more light. It will grow much more compact with direct light. I'm not sure if you expected the Blyxa to grow so large but I have to tell you my experience with aquasoil has proven that you can grow pretty much anything in it (even without ferts)! I just bought some downoi and although I have no experience with it, I think that once they mature they look awesome so I think you will be pleased with them! I'm not to wild about the Erio but I see that you like it...overall I'm impressed with the achievements you've made in this tank. And where in the world did you ever get those moss rocks! I LOVE them!!!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

styxx1: Thanks for the comments! I was thinking that my limiting factor on the HC growth was too little light. At some point I'll probably sell the 65W fixture and get a 2x65W so I can control the banks. 
And honestly no I had no idea that the Blyxa was going to grow so much so fast, it really needs to be pulled and thinned but I really want to give the CRS time to get comfortable and hopefully breed before I start uprooting a ton of stuff. 
And I'm not so hot on the Erio... its really cool that you can shape it and it maintains itself well without trying to take over the rest of the tank. But its waaay bright and the older leaves get less attractive as they fall to the background. I think some of the problem with that is also that I seem to have snails that like to munch it, which is ok because I have a steady supply of puffer food. 
I'll post here even though I saw your PM RE:the moss rocks. Its nothing really special. I think they are plain river rocks that I got at Pier 1 or somewhere to put in some water fountains I had. I just took some Peacock moss and tied the rocks up with fishing line. I highly doubt the moss will ever fully attach to them but its easy enough to re-tie one if the bundle falls off (I get better at it every time).  
Thanks again for reading though and replying, I'm glad to have any kind of feedback to make it better.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

MrJG said:


> styxx1: Thanks for the comments! I was thinking that my limiting factor on the HC growth was too little light. At some point I'll probably sell the 65W fixture and get a 2x65W so I can control the banks.
> And honestly no I had no idea that the Blyxa was going to grow so much so fast, it really needs to be pulled and thinned but I really want to give the CRS time to get comfortable and hopefully breed before I start uprooting a ton of stuff.
> And I'm not so hot on the Erio... its really cool that you can shape it and it maintains itself well without trying to take over the rest of the tank. But its waaay bright and the older leaves get less attractive as they fall to the background. I think some of the problem with that is also that I seem to have snails that like to munch it, which is ok because I have a steady supply of puffer food.
> I'll post here even though I saw your PM RE:the moss rocks. Its nothing really special. I think they are plain river rocks that I got at Pier 1 or somewhere to put in some water fountains I had. I just took some Peacock moss and tied the rocks up with fishing line. I highly doubt the moss will ever fully attach to them but its easy enough to re-tie one if the bundle falls off (I get better at it every time).
> Thanks again for reading though and replying, I'm glad to have any kind of feedback to make it better.


Yes, I def. recommend the 2x65 Aqualight...its what I have and it seriously does the job. I would recommend that you change the bulbs that it comes with every 6 months. Around the 6th month, I thought to myself "well, I wonder if I even should bother, it looks the same to me and the plants are doing just fine" and then I decided what the hell, why not replace just one to see if it makes a difference. I bought one 65w 7600K compact fluorescent replacement and installed and turned it on. I was shocked. There was a dramatic difference in color and intensity between the two bulbs. I guess either my eyes are not as sensitive to the difference or I simply became used to the diminished output gradually over time. So good luck!


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## Y0uH0 (Dec 19, 2005)

In my opinion i'd say that thats a fantastic looking tank. Really love the plant growth and i wish you success in breeding ur CRS!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the comments YOuHO, I hope they work out too. 

Honestly I've had a bit of an issue with the CRS which I'm sad to say. They all did well through acclimation and the first week or so. I did the first WC after introduction and added my normal amounts of ferts. Everything seemed fine, but this was my first time using Seachem Prime, I have no idea if this had anything to do with the problem but merely including it as a suspect. The day after the WC I went out of town for 4 days for a show. Upon returning I found 2 dead CRS.  The next day another. Basically from what I can tell there are only 5-6 left out of the original 12 which sucks from a financial standpoint but at least I have the survivors. All cherries/Amanos/white clouds are fine. 
So I'm thinking 3 possible causes:
I didn't manage to equalize the temp enough during the WC or the PH difference was too great (I've never allowed it to de-gas...)
I fubared the amount of Prime that I used by not using a syringe and using the bottle cap (doh!).
I followed my normal fert regime and added a spot too much nitrogen, I always tend to short the amount I should but I know CRS are very delicate. 

Here's to hoping that I actually have a surviving female or two and things will work out. Obviously until I do a few more water changes etc and make darn sure I know what happened I'll be holding off on getting any more. This was one of the main reasons I got in the tank yesterday and took out most of the Blyxa, just to make sure I didn't have CRS bodies underneath.  

On a brighter note (hehe) I think I've decided to upgrade the lighting in the next month or so. I'm obviously considering the Dual 2X65W Current Satellite like the one I have (but I have to buy a stinkin extra bulb at point or purchase)... or I noticed Current now has T5HOx2 "freshwater" fixtures. I notice that the 30 inch fixture only has 2x24W of lighting. Now if it not obvious already I haven't done enough research but is 48W of T5 lighting going to be enough? I know the lighting is supposed to be more intense but... would this seriously be a viable option against 130W of Power compact flourescent? 
Lighting gurus chime in if you have a moment, I'll get around to doing some reading before I purchase for sure.


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Nice looking tank! The erio looks good up close! Im not familiar with that plant at all....from far, it looks really bright?

I have kind of a dumb question and Im sorry if its been asked already:icon_redf How do you have your outlet jet pointed slightly up like that? I have an issue in my tank using the jet on my xp1 blasting a plant around, and Im not exactly sure how to go about changing it, so that doesnt happen anymore, but I will start my own thread for that when the time comes, but I may give the slanted jet a shot first...seems like an easy fix! haha

Tank looks really good tho!:thumbsup: 

Thanks


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Nah actually it hasn't been asked! Haha! Basically I just put the two suction cups on and managed to somehow make it stick like that by resting the intake on top of it using another suction cup. I keep it turned down a good bit too on mine using the adjustment adapter thingy that came with it. 

Thanks for the comments!


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

48w of T5HO is not even close to =130w PC.
T5 are supposed to be more intense, yes, but not that much more.
for planted tanks, IMO, t5's and PC's should be compared nearly equally.

For reefs, T5's are much better.

Obviously there's exceptions.
(Tek+AHsupply)


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Ok so after doing a bit of reading I'm considering keeping the 1x65W PC fixture and getting the Nova Extreme 2x24W T5HO fixture and using it for a "noon burst" which would end up being a late afternoon burst on my lighting schedule. 
The main reason I'm thinking of doing this is... the high cost (for me) of the 2x65W fixture + the need to immediately replace the bulb. If I went with the Satellite fixture I'd be doing something similar anyway because from what I understand 130W for 9-10 hours a day over 20 Gallons is just asking for an algae outbreak. Been there done that, no more please.
The T5HO fixture is less than half the price and comes with the appropriate bulb. It also looks like it will have better light dispersion on the ends where the 1X65W fixture I have now has quite a gap. I figure between the two of them I'll get some decent results w/ the HC as well as having some semblance of control over growth by shortening/extending the burst period. Maybe 3-4 hours of combined lighting giving me a total of 113W and having the 65W on for the full period will do. I'm not really looking to make my tank a "pearl monster", I just want the HC to stay low and freakin' grow in already. 
Now wether or not running two fixtures is going to be a pain in the rear... I guess we'll see. I need to go measure to make sure they'll both fit over the top at once... gotta remember the details.  

Ended up reading for several hours about reviews/setups for the Nova Extreme fixtures. Some folks seem to be totally happy and getting great results with JUST the 2x24W fixture on 20-30 gallon tanks. Some have great issues with the lack of individual reflectors in the fixture but overall everyone seems to think they are very good entry level T5 fixtures especially considering the pricepoint. 

Thoughts on my plan? Anything I'm missing?


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

I've got the 4X54 on my African cichlid tank. It grows anubias and vals just fine, and with the actinic, algae also.

It's a nice light, but has 4 PLUGS!!!
I'm not sure about the smaller fixtures, but mine has 2 banks, moonlights, and a fan.

It has a single reflector, which sucks, but it's better than coralife reflectors.


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## shaobo (Jul 29, 2007)

Great looking tank  It's interesting to see you fight through the algae war, I am still battling with a little bit now. I would think a single 65w you already have would be enough for a tank this size, at least that is what I am running in my 20G long.  

Ed


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

shaobo: Thanks for the post! Yea I agree the 65w has done a good job so far. Judging from how much HC I started with early in the journal it has spread quite well. It just seems to be reaching for light a little more than I would like it to. I've been trimming the longer stems and replanting them as needed. I think I just need a little more light for a boost. Some of the problem might also be that the PC bulb has been in use since April. I bought a new one along with the T5 fixture yesterday. 

Going to thin out the blyxa on the right side tomorrow and trim/fix the moss rocks. I might go ahead and refresh the sand in there while I have the rocks out of the tank. I have some Pellia on the way (thanks Jen!) so I'm gonna chuck a few Pellia rocks in there to see how they do. Must.... resist.... collectoritis... 

Of the 5 stems of Eriocaulon sp. 'setaceum' that I got there are two that live. Either the shipping was rough on them or I light starved them where I placed them. One is still recovering but I can tell it'll rebound, the other one has doubled in size since I moved it to a more open spot in the tank. Wow what an awesome plant! Bright green foliage that looks like a Pom-Pom that drifts really well in the current. I'll try to snag a pic of it but its going to be hard to do it justice with my limited camera skills/equipment. I somehow think its cool just as a single or maybe two stems for something different. I can see it getting really busy having more than that in a small tank like mine. I'd love to try some 'Goias' but I really don't think there is a good spot left in the tank to display it unless I put one smack dab in the middle of the HC.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*post trim pics*

Since I cleaned out a bit today and while I was taking for sale pics I figured I'd get a few new ones of the tank. These are kinda going to be my baseline pictures to find out if the noon burst of light creates the growth I want in the HC. Also got a few of the setaceum thats doing so well, its already got a little sideshoot nub coming in. 
I took the type II out of the right side and moved the japonica to the back. Added a coupled of the pellia rocks to the "path". 

Full shot:









Full2:









3/4:


Erio:









Erio2:


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Nice growth on that blyxa!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks C! 

Little none picture update. 

After trying for weeks to find a nice home locally for my white clouds I finally took them to the lps yesterday. Still feel a bit bad about it even though they are cheap minnows but they were a family. I still kept the smallest fry for now, once they get old enough to have a fighting chance they go out too. 

So fry aside this is an all shrimp tank now. I introduced 14 new CRS yesterday evening so hopefully I have a little better survival rate than last time. Time will tell. I'm crossing my fingers.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

So its thread update time for me since I can only watch as my fantasy football team flounders (of course Crayton scores as I type this so maybe there's hope). Hehe I should never try to play matchups... anyway back to the tank. 

I added the secondary 2x24W Nova Extreme T5HO fixture last week. It worked out pretty nifty as the 1x65 fits directly over the glass portion in the back and the new one fits exactly in the glass portion on the front. I've been manually turning on the T5 fixture for about 2.5-3 hours a day for the past week, weekend days I've given it a little more. I can already see the HC starting to lay down or send out horizontal runners. It seems to be working well. I think some of the Blyxa is even starting to turn a little pinkish in hue. 
It doesn't seem so bad. I flip over the fixture and lay it on top of the PC light during feeding or maintenance. 

Here's a pic of the back light only (1x65 Current Satellite PC dual daylight):








Here's a pic of the burst mode (adding the 2x24w T5HO Nova Extreme):








An example of the height of the HC that I want to lay down:









The new CRS seem to be doing really well. I've had one loss since adding them... only time will tell. I did a really good filter cleaning and added a bag of purigen while I acclimatized them. I'm dropping my waterchanges to 25-30% instead of a larger 50% for a while, I'm also slowing down on dosing unless I see any deficiencies. 
I ended up keeping 4 baby Clouds and noticed I STILL have fry in the tank at the last waterchange. Too many to count right now, we'll see how many survive. Once they get big enough off they go. 

The big Erio stalk from my last post touched the top of the water and started to bend over so I uprooted/clipped/replanted it in another location. 

I've been thinking of replacing the Erio type II with some HM or some other kind of bushy plant... any ideas? The erio I think has ben stunted by constant chainsaw pruning and its looking a bit ratty lately.


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## Fugu (Nov 10, 2007)

Looks amazing! Great aquascaping!


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Are you on pressurized CO2?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Nope. Its a DIY setup using a 1.something liter gatorade bottle + another collector bottle and a glass diffuser. Since its been set up I've changed the solution 4 times... using the jello method. I do top it off occasionally with new yeast + water. 

Thanks for the comment Fugu!


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## Mad78 (Oct 23, 2007)

whats the jello method


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

Here's one thread on it.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/9916-jello-co2-thread.html

Try an advanced titles only search for more info


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## Mad78 (Oct 23, 2007)

what is the pint for the jello method? wouldnt it rot and mold?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Not from what I've seen so far. Basically the point is that the sugar is dissolved into the jello and it slows down the yeast's consumption of the sugar. It tends to make the mixture last longer from what I read. I've never done the standard DIY setup so I can't really comment on that but it does tend to last a solid 3-4 weeks before I renew the yeast and at least 6 weeks before I have to make more jello and restart.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I can say authoritatively, if you want that HC to grow horizontally and "lay down" you need more light. I get mine to grow extremely well, (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/51912-ada-60p-journal-warning-56k-4.html) but even then, I think I could use just a little more...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

aye styxx that was the whole reasoning behind adding the second fixture. I really didn't want to replace what I had with the 2x65 because the stupid black part of the glass top blocks some of the light coming in. It seems to be working ok so far, if I don't see any major algae issues pop up for a few weeks more I might up the burst time another few hours and see what happens.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

MrJG said:


> aye styxx that was the whole reasoning behind adding the second fixture. I really didn't want to replace what I had with the 2x65 because the stupid black part of the glass top blocks some of the light coming in. It seems to be working ok so far, if I don't see any major algae issues pop up for a few weeks more I might up the burst time another few hours and see what happens.


I see...well I can say that in incremental approach is always best when dealing with tanks and the ever present algae. However, to get the growth that you really want (at least with HC) its - light, light and more light...but that in turn causes all kinds of problems. I've also found (even with Aquasoil which is awesome) that it my HC doesn't get full light for at least 5/6 hours, it will start to yellow and then I have to add additional Fe, etc. to bring it back...but then again, my CO2 is very high...good luck!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I got you. The HC in your tank is growing supa fast. You know I hadn't noticed or thought about it in a while but when I got this HC it was in this nice 4x4 clump and all of the leaves were super tiny compared to how they are now. Maybe its time for me to crank both lights full time (8 hours) for a week and see what happens. 
I got sick of how the Erio type 2 has been looking lately and ripped it all out. I replanted 5-6 tops to grow it out again. I have some Heteranthera zosterifolia 'stargrass', Limnophila aromatica, and some Limnophila sp 'mini' on the way so I'll be moving a few things around when they arrive. I'm really still not sure where I'm going to place everything but I figured a little color can only help the looks of the tank.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

hey, running 3.1 wpg, would that be enough for a carpet of HC, or would I need to use my other fixture in conjunction for 4.0 wpg?


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## jabf2006 (Nov 20, 2007)

I was looking at this: http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c64280p16512136.2.html

Does something like that replace my canopy? It appears the specs of the bulb is right on...


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## jabf2006 (Nov 20, 2007)

sorry, wrong board


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

CmLaracy said:


> hey, running 3.1 wpg, would that be enough for a carpet of HC, or would I need to use my other fixture in conjunction for 4.0 wpg?


FWIW, I'd say use both or whatever you have to reach the 4.0 threshold...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Well it seems to be working. I've run both lights on the timer since the 19th (113W for 8 hours daily) and I see a noticeable difference in growth horizontally. Everything pearls pretty well after being under lighting for 2-3 hours.
The only side effect? Lots more and quicker growth of dust algae on the glass. Simple enough to scrape off though and I think the benefits outweigh the algae growth at this point... as long as I'm diligent in my fert additions and nothing really nasty breaks out. 

I'm going to look into finding some Zebra Otocinclus if I can get a few without taking out a second mortgage... otherwise I'll just grab 3-4 regular Otos to help manage the dust. 

Stargrass, Aromatica, and 'mini' showed up and has been planted. I'll snag a few pics once the plants adjust and start looking better. I mainly wanted the stargrass for its 'indicator' properties, from what I read by looking at the status of the leaves you can easily tell what may be lacking in the tank chemically. We'll see what happens with it. I pretty much topped every stem that was sent to me and planted only the tops along with the best tops left over from the Erio T2. Might look interesting... then again it might not. 

I'm now realizing that I'm limited somewhat as far as planting space goes in the 20 long. On top of this is fact that the tank is very shallow (good thing for lighting\/plants, bad for growing stems). I'm satisfied with growth so far in the tank but something is lacking in presence. I just don't have that lushness or really healthy busting at the seams with different plants thing going on. Maybe I just need some kind of smaller mid-ground kind of plant to soften the lines around the rocks and make it appear to be more grown in/older... I was thinking about Anubis-petite or hairgrass. I guess I'll have a bit to think about it since the winter months are coming around now.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

excellent...I know that you will really be impressed with the results with your increased lighting...algae on the glass is a steady companion to high lighting but easily managed with a magnet cleaner. The benefits, however, IMHO far outweigh the inconveniences...the HC should start growing substantially different and much lower hugging the substrate...be diligent in your dosing as this may reflect a proportional increase in needs for Macros...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the stars! 

Yea I'm definitely going to be keeping a close eye out on the ferts/algae. 

I cant seem to find anywhere that has Zebra Oto's available. Anyone got a line on some that they can share? I'd probably be better off given their fragile nature just to pick up some regular ones in a group of 5 or so. I'm going to wait closer to the end of the week and let the algae get nice and thick on the glass... and to let the shop weed out the weaker fish.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

MrJG said:


> Thanks for the stars!
> 
> Yea I'm definitely going to be keeping a close eye out on the ferts/algae.
> 
> I cant seem to find anywhere that has Zebra Oto's available. Anyone got a line on some that they can share? I'd probably be better off given their fragile nature just to pick up some regular ones in a group of 5 or so. I'm going to wait closer to the end of the week and let the algae get nice and thick on the glass... and to let the shop weed out the weaker fish.


I can't blame you for wanting to procure some of those, but IMHO Zebras are exceedingly rare and only come around every once in a while (at least where I am) and I'd just recommend you get some regular ones. No doubt they'll go crazy once you have some on that algae!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Aye I'm not having much luck finding them at all... I imagine if I did they would probably be wild caught and seriously expensive. I'm not feeling like gambling that much at the moment on the little buggers. 
Got a good sheet of algae on the glass now, its been killing me not to scrape it off. Going to go by somewhere local this evening and see if there are any Oto's still around from the early week shipment. Think 5 is too many for this tank? They will really be the only fish in the tank with the shrimp once I ship the last white clouds out. 

I'll try to snap some pics of the HC progress this weekend and post them up. 

Cheers.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

MrJG said:


> Aye I'm not having much luck finding them at all... I imagine if I did they would probably be wild caught and seriously expensive. I'm not feeling like gambling that much at the moment on the little buggers.
> Got a good sheet of algae on the glass now, its been killing me not to scrape it off. Going to go by somewhere local this evening and see if there are any Oto's still around from the early week shipment. Think 5 is too many for this tank? They will really be the only fish in the tank with the shrimp once I ship the last white clouds out.
> 
> I'll try to snap some pics of the HC progress this weekend and post them up.
> ...


I'm looking forward to seeing those pics and the progress you've made so far!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

You will not have to wait long Styxx! Heh. Had a bit of time this evening and snapped a few pics. I think its time for me to start upgrading my photography skills, I cant seem to get pics that fully represent the tank. 

So away we go... lets start with some pics of the HC growth. Lofts of horizontal runners which I had not seen up to the point of adding the secondary T5 fixture. Depending on how well the otos clean up the glass I may go back to the 2.5-3 hour a day burst to avoid some of the GDA growth. 

From the top left then right:


















Close left:









Close right:









Its close to filling in entirely to the front glass. The portions far left/right are going to take a bit of nurturing to get filled in (adjusting the light to hit those). 

I took a ton more pics so I have some more to follow since its been a bit since I've posted any.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*massive pic update*

So to get some further out perspective here are a few fts:


















As you can see the Eriocaulon type II bush is now gone. Replaced by Stargrass and Erio clippings. It's going to take a little bit to fill in but I already see nice growth on the stargrass. We'll see if it works out depending on how invasive the growth is. 
Still clipping the Eriocaulon 'Setacum' regularly with the tank being so shallow it reaches the surface in no time, I'm hoping eventually I'll see some daughter plants for this one. 
Added Limnophila Aromatica in the front left and mid-right. I know its not normally something thats placed in the foreground but I really didn't have time to uproot/move a few blyxa plants. I'll probably do that and move it back depending on how it grows. 

Some closer in shots:


















Limophila 'mini' that I added at the same time as the 'aromatica' pretty much melted from the top down. I topped the new growth and re-planted. 









The green rocks probably will be back to normal coloring soon as the Otos have been working hard on it. I did clean algae off the glass before taking these pics. 

I love doing these long shots from one side of the tank to the other. Makes me wish i had room for something with more room/depth. first one has a bigger clickable version.












I added a new rhinox 1000 to use while I bleach dip the old one... it doesn't seem to diffuse quite as well but it will work until the old one is clean.
I think thats it for now. I'm in the just let it grow stage unless something needs trimming (moss+Rotala is getting there). 

Comments, feedback, hows my driving? Cheers and thanks folks.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

no love for the newb tank?


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## saint27 (Apr 27, 2006)

It looks great. I have a 20L that I a m thinking about resurecting. I remember having trouble with algea on rocks and wood as well. Only thing that kept up with it was a pleco but I hate having one of those in the tank.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

looking good so far. The only thing I might suggest is giving the HC a trim. I trim mine down with a haircut right across the top and it grows fine...unless you want to cultivate the bushy look which is also awesome. I have found that it appreciates a trim now and then so that when it gets thick light can reach some of the lower, deeper areas of undergrowth. Just a thought...keep up the great work!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Saint: I actually >like< the fact that the rocks had gotten a little green, it gave an aged natural look that was pretty cool. The otos haven't totally cleaned them up so they still look pretty cool. 

Styxx: I finally broke down and gave the HC a good haircut when it was time to clean up the moss. It does look a lot more tidy now and I'm going to offer ll of the clippings along with a good bit of Rotala 'green' as a Christmas RAOK later this week. 

Looks like I am seeing a micro deficiency now, gotta up the dosing a bit. The Stargrass is getting black/white streaks on the very tips of the new growth which I read indicates a low iron/micro issue. Since I have the CRS in the tank now and they are doing really well I'd really rather not dose too much flourish (copper) but also read at those concentrations that it probably wouldn't matter. Thoughts on Flourish? Would it provide enough iron as well as others at the recommended dosing level? Should I be dosing this multiple times during the week? I've only been adding light doses at waterchanges so obviously its getting used up rather quickly.


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Looks fantastic! I like the addition of the more colorful plants!

I look forward to more pics!

Great work thoroud:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*hmmm....just a suggestions...*



MrJG said:


> Saint: I actually >like< the fact that the rocks had gotten a little green, it gave an aged natural look that was pretty cool. The otos haven't totally cleaned them up so they still look pretty cool.
> 
> Styxx: I finally broke down and gave the HC a good haircut when it was time to clean up the moss. It does look a lot more tidy now and I'm going to offer ll of the clippings along with a good bit of Rotala 'green' as a Christmas RAOK later this week.
> 
> Looks like I am seeing a micro deficiency now, gotta up the dosing a bit. The Stargrass is getting black/white streaks on the very tips of the new growth which I read indicates a low iron/micro issue. Since I have the CRS in the tank now and they are doing really well I'd really rather not dose too much flourish (copper) but also read at those concentrations that it probably wouldn't matter. Thoughts on Flourish? Would it provide enough iron as well as others at the recommended dosing level? Should I be dosing this multiple times during the week? I've only been adding light doses at waterchanges so obviously its getting used up rather quickly.


oh wow...IMO....that's not enough given your plant mass...many of the plants that you have, although they may utilize nutrients through their roots could also benefit with at least an additional day a week of dosing, probably 3x a week would be good if you don't see any negative algae effects and keep the CO2 concentrations right...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Stxxy: Word. Honestly I know I've been running light on dosing lately. Hell I usually wait until I see yellowing on the HC before I dose K! I've wandered into the world of trying to keep a successful planted tank at the same time as attempting to keep CRS happy/breeding. I'm sure there is a balance but I'm taking baby steps to dial it in. 
I'll pick up a calender today, roughly calculate my dosing needs, and dust off/calibrate my test kit. I'm still hesitant to go with a full blown 'EI' dosing level but I'm sure I can get the levels up enough to whip the plants into shape without any adverse effects on the shrimps. Not that anything in the tank looks that unhealthy. 

Hopefully I'll have some new Erio 'setaceum' plants in the mailbox today. I have plans and they are in direct contrast to everything standard in the 'rules' of aquascaping. :O Probably going to end up with prune hands too.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*I hear you...*



MrJG said:


> Stxxy: Word. Honestly I know I've been running light on dosing lately. Hell I usually wait until I see yellowing on the HC before I dose K! I've wandered into the world of trying to keep a successful planted tank at the same time as attempting to keep CRS happy/breeding. I'm sure there is a balance but I'm taking baby steps to dial it in.
> I'll pick up a calender today, roughly calculate my dosing needs, and dust off/calibrate my test kit. I'm still hesitant to go with a full blown 'EI' dosing level but I'm sure I can get the levels up enough to whip the plants into shape without any adverse effects on the shrimps. Not that anything in the tank looks that unhealthy.
> 
> Hopefully I'll have some new Erio 'setaceum' plants in the mailbox today. I have plans and they are in direct contrast to everything standard in the 'rules' of aquascaping. :O Probably going to end up with prune hands too.


That sounds like a plan. No doubt its a delicate balancing act to keep the plants alive and healthy without endangering the shrimp. But I think you could probably bump your dosing up a little without too much danger but then I usually don't give a d*mn about my Amanos because they're built like tanks (at least the ones I have) and believe me they've been through world war 3 in my tank! lol...


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## jdmstop (Aug 24, 2007)

Hi great looking tank. How come you are not using the spray bar which came with the rena external filter for the outlet ? and also which adapter is the one you are currently using?

Thanks


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

jdmstop: sorry for not replying sooner. I must have missed your post during the holidays. I pretty much didn't use the spraybar because it stuck out a bit too much. It wouldn't fit on the side of the tank so I would have needed to put it in the back. With the tank being so shallow it just seemed to be in the way too much. The adapter was in the box with the rena... it has the powerjet head and a flow control that you can turn the output down a bit with. 
When the tank was setup there were lots of white cloud minnows in there and they absolutely loved the swift current from the jet. 

Update: Not too much going on with the tank at them moment. Since the last pictures I've taken out almost all of the Rotala 'green' and the 'stargrass'. It was just waaaay too invasive for my tastes and it took over a good portion of the HC which I also ended up pulling out. Just gave the moss path a good trimming and continue to propagate more Limnophila Aromatica and Erio Setaceum. It should be back in picture taking shape in the next couple of weeks as the Erio is starting to enjoy it's new digs. 
Still no berried CRS  but they are doing well. All 5 Otocinlus are still kickin it too. I'm considering soon getting some yellow shrimps to add to the mix... I think I'm addicted to inverts.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

any updates? I'd like to see the growth!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*Eriocaulon Forest*

Okeee. Updatasaurus. Where to start... well its been a while so I'll hit up the tank specs just in case.

AGA 20G long
ADA Aquasoil Amazonia (12 liters)
Home Depot 'Pavestone' pool filter sand
Rena XP1 w/ intake filter sponge
Current USA Satellite 1x65W + 50/50 dual daylight lamp (8 hour cycle daily)
Coralife 2x18W T5HO (2-3 hours daily)
Hydor 201 200W heater (~74F deg)
DIY CO2 using jello method, 1.7 liter Gatorade bottle, diffused with spiro III glass piece, CO2 proof tubing

Fauna:
2 Amano sherman tanks
3 Male cherries
~8 CRS low S grade
2 Black Diamonds
5 Ottocinclus affinis
5 WC minnows (until I get off my lazy ass and give them away)









Flora (always wanted to do one of these paint by numbers things haha):
1. Blyxa Japonica
2. Limnophila aromatica
3. Hemianthus callitrichoides - 'HC' Cuba
4. Eriocaulon sp. 'setaceum'
5. Pogostemon helferi - Downoi
6. Tonina sp. fluviatilis
7. Taxiphyllum sp. - Peacock Moss
8. Fissidens fontanus
9. Limnophila sp 'mini'
10. Riccia fluitans

Dosing Regime: Willy Nilly - I really need to buckle down and set a routine and try to calculate dosing for the whole week. 

----------------------------------

So where to start... I still do have an algae battle going on. Its there, a light dosing of short hairy badness on the leaves (you have to be fairly close to see it). I've trimmed what looks to be the start of BBA from several of the Erio 'setaceum' leaves. I really do need to get my dosing in order so it doesn't get any worse. I've only been running the 2x18W for 2-3 hours a day until everything pearls really good. I don't think the inverts/otos appreciate the additional wattage. 

So here are some tank shots. I'd just hacked just about all of the Erio down as well as the Aromatica so it needs to grow back out to hide the equipment. 
The tank that Barr got this Erio out of must have been a beast, the stalks were freakin' huge. Now that its adjusted to my baby tank the stalks have gotten to be much more petite like I expected. The ricca clumps came as hitchers with plants and I'm just letting them grow in the blyxa. The tonina came from mrkookm and came to me looking wonderful, I've got a few leaves that are going transparent and thats no doubt due to me being a goober and letting CO2 fluctuate along side my jacked up dosing routine. 

Lets start with a shot to show the tanks spot in the bedroom (humidifier is back for the winter):









FTS (clicky for bigger), Pardon the blue Drop checker I'd just changed the solution:


Left:









Right:









Somebody taking pictures?


Ricca:









Tonina:









I'm going to sit down today and try to come up with a dosing routine. I'll post up later to get advice once I have the layout. 

Thanks for looking.
James


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

looking great! nice growth. how old is this tank now? have you ever considered a complete rescape?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

C: I guess its 7-8 months old. I'm fairly happy with the scape (if it qualifies as a scape) and layout at the moment. The hardscape on the right side gets lost for the most part and I'd love to have more room to plant but... I'm not quite ready to pull everything and restart just yet.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

MrJG said:


> C: I guess its 7-8 months old. I'm fairly happy with the scape (if it qualifies as a scape) and layout at the moment. The hardscape on the right side gets lost for the most part and I'd love to have more room to plant but... I'm not quite ready to pull everything and restart just yet.


yeah it looks great, I'd keep it the way it is for a while! :thumbsup: And good luck with the tonina, I heard it's tough to maintain...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Word. Its already taking a hit so I guess we'll see. Figured out my daily doses to start out with until I finish off the seachem bottle ferts, then I guess its off to get some dry stuff. We'll see if this brings things back in order.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Not too bit of an update but just a few things to catch up on. 

The new Tonina growth is looking great. It'll be much better when it grows out completely and I can trim it down to where it started in my tank. Plants just seem to have to adjust for some reason. 

I let the flow on the tank get a little jacked up and I think that has promoted a slight algae outbreak. Nothing major though and the daily dosing seems to be doing the trick. Back to only using the 1x65 PC most of the time. I just chuck the extra 48 T5 on there for the heck of it on the weekends. I have plans for that fixture soon.  Almost all the plants will be left to grow out until that time... unless they touch the surface.

Added 24 more high A - S+ grade CRS from kangshiang. If you need the hookup on CRS look him up. His shrimp are super healthy and have great coloring. The grading is spot on as well. So that brings total CRS to ~35 or so in the tank... kinda hard to count. Cross my fingers for some berried shrimps at some point. Only other fauna in the tank now is the 5 Otos. Shrimp seem to be much more active during the lighting period now.

During my evening tank viewing yesterday I noticed something crawling around inside (below) the HC. Upon closer inspection it was a damselfly larvae about .5 inch long. I snagged him up with the tweezers with the quickness. Must have come in with some plants at some point. Crazy looking little bugger and fast! 


Took a few snapshots just for the update... not much has changed though. Having to trim/replant the Erio 'setaceum' every week to keep it from reaching the surface. I need to pull out the Blyxa on the left and do a little better job planting the L. Aromatica so its more uniform. I've got different height growths from 3 separate trimmings. :O










Disregard the secondary DC there. Funny thing is I have the SAME 4dKH solution and reagent in BOTH drop checkers. The blacksunshine one is turning light yellow while the generic one stays bright green. The only thing I can think of is maybe a little of the previous jacked up solution is trapped in the Bsunshine one, how in the $#% are you supposed to get liquid completely out of this thing?

Cheers,
James


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## daniel19831123 (Dec 3, 2006)

Hi where do you get that limnophila sp mini from? It looks a lot like pogostemon yatabeanus from far. Have you got any close up shot of that photos? I've purchase some of these plants which is labelled as limnophila aromatica as well but then it looks nothing like limnophila aromatica and I's desperate to get it identified.

You can compare yours to mine here at this address. Apology in advance for the poor quality photos.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plant-submissions/26213-limnophila-aromatica-2.html


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Daniel: You know I have no idea where I got the limno 'mini' from now that you ask... I'm by far not the best person to identify plants at my level but with that being said all of the pictures I've ever seen of pogostemon yatabeanus have shown a darker stem structure in a red/brown coloration with green leaves. The leaf structure does look similar though. 
I think the gent I got the 'aromatica' from threw a couple of stems of the 'mini' in with the packing. It has a very delicate stem and a slight redish hue to the uppermost tops of the leaves. It is very much like a small version of the 'aromatica' as far as how the leaves are shaped. 
Granted given the shallow tank I have them in I may not have enough room or given enough time for the stems to show their matured state. 

The picture in your thread (the last one) certainly looks like 'aromatica' to me. Distinct green on top/red hue on bottom of the leaves. Things do tend to look different from tank to tank as that thread shows very well. I recall reading several reasons that the red comes out and it varies... no idea which would work I've never tried any of them. Higher lighting, limiting nitrates, increasing iron... at some point I've read each of these being used to "bring the red out" in plants. 

Good luck figuring it out bro. My newbie opinion though is the plants pictured in your thread are Limnophila 'aromatica', take it with a grain of salt though. hehehe.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Ok folks I need your help. I need advice regarding a little situation that has cropped up in this tank. 
I've been letting things grow out in this tank with the intent to use lots of moss and such in the new tank. Been thinking that once I got the new tank to the stage of planting that I'd just pull everything from this tank and do a re-plant and massive prune of everything using the portions I need for the new tank at the same time. 
So... last week after water change time I was sitting/viewing the tank. I noticed something creeping around UNDERNEATH the HC growth. Upon closer inspection it was a freakin' damselfly larvae about .5 inch long. I immediately tweezed it out of the tank. It was none too happy to say the least. I've been keeping a very close eye ever since. 
Today during the weekly WC I was cleaning the sand between the overgrown patches of moss and one pops out from the moss. This one was closer to .75 inches again I snagged it with the tweezers and disposed of it. 

There are no baby shrimp in the tank at this point. The smallest is between juvie>adult. I haven't noticed any dead shrimp but its kinda hard to count considering everything is so grown up. Should I be considering slowly de-planting this tank to attempt to clear these things out? I'm really not ready to rip out all the moss just yet because I have nowhere to keep it until the new tank is ready. 

Thoughts?


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

Since they are larvae, there's no chance of them multiplying. I would just probably keep an eye for them.


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## JamesG (Feb 18, 2008)

I had the same problem with damselfly larvae in a shrimp only tank and I haven't a clue where they came from. At the time they appeared it was well into winter up here so I can rule out flying in a 19th storey window. 

I was able to get rid of them simply by doing full sweeps of the tank with my tweezers. If you can move your light fixture around try that, they tend to glow quite well in the light and are more easily spotted. Also they tend to bury their head in the gravel if being chased so watch for non shrimp tails sticking out. It takes a lot of patience but they can be killed. It is just annoying because they clearly hatched at such different times in my tank because such a range of sizes were caught over a 2 week period. 

Best of luck.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the replies. I guess when the lights come on for the day I'll get my hunt on to see if I can pick anymore out. Buggers are going to be hard to find though. 
JamesG did you notice any problems with shrimp predation? Am I just being overly cautious here?


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## JamesG (Feb 18, 2008)

Shrimp predation was my main concern too. Oddly though I think they may not have preyed on the shrimp because the colony I was setting up in this tank grew at the rate I expected despite the larvae being present when baby shrimp were at their most vulnerable. Also at this time I had ghost shrimp larvae floating (non motile) in the water column and they would be in the same spot day after day. So I would guess none were being picked off by a passing mayfly. 

If you are feeling scientific try and put a baby shrimp in with a caught larvae in a small glass and see what happens. It may be cruel but you could possibly settle this debate as I have seen no definite proof they will eat shrimp.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

looking better everytime I see it!


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## Growerguy (Feb 12, 2008)

Love the tank. Really like the boulders you used for the layout. 
Think I read another post today about someone with a damselfly problem on the east coast. Maybe they hitched a ride on one of your plants? 
Good luck with the little buggers.
Allso great job.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*Fugazi re-plant*

Thanks guys!

Growerguy: haha yea I guess thats possible, or they hitched a ride into my tank on one of their plants.  

So last night I made the decision to wake up today and go crazy on the tank. I was hoping to wait until I could get the 40 Breeder up and running to use moss from this tank before I trimmed again... well I got tired of having to search for the CRS. This is after all a CRS only tank and it was getting to the point that if something went wrong I was doubtful I'd even see a random shrimp death. I wasn't very happy with plant locations anyway, it was difficult at best to tell that there was Downoi in there. Never mind the fact that I snagged a couple of damselfly larvae over the past few weeks, I want to reclaim my hardscape! 

Started at 9am by getting some new jello ready for the CO2 reactor and replacing DC solution. While the jello was setting up I got busy...

Inserted bose earbuds, loaded the Fugazi playlist and got my 'scape' on.

A beginning shot:









Peacock moss mass so thick that it came out all in one swipe even though each bundle was connected to river stones. 









Floating carpet:









An overview of the work area:









The old hardscape shows up once again, the CRS are saying "WTF man!", the only thing I didn't pull was the tonina and aromatica:









I got everything back in there for the most part. Filled it back up and I'm running the filter for a while. I'm taking a break from it to type this up, much props to those who do this to a bigger tank all in one day. My back is killin' me. 
Still need to redo the moss rocks which I'm about to do now. Expect a massive SnS sale from me later this weekend... probably not tonight though as I have a wedding party to crash. 

I'll post an after shot tomorrow once everything settles in a bit. Water is only slightly cloudy right now. Re-planting AS is not as bad as folks make it out to be as long as you tank your time and work slowly. Lots of detritus though. :O CRS seem to be much happier already with plenty of new spots to explore and less places to hide out. 

Cheers


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Wow, man! I guess Fugazi will really get you going! "Waiting Room" is one of my all time faves...

Anyway, what are your rescape plans like?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Word. The whole "13 songs" album is classic.

Not really as much a re-scape, the hardscape is staying as it is. Its just a massive pruning and repositioning job. The rocks on the right will be exposed now though and hopefully it will stay that way.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

I can't wait to see what you did with it. I like the rocks and I hope they will play a larger part after you thinned the jungle. I will have to keep an eye out for your SnS.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Time for the re-planted pics... 

Before:









After: Click for big image


Left:









Right:









No-Entry? Still a young shrimp but one of my favorites from my last batch. Might loose a little of the solid white as it grows though. 









As far as I'm concerned, I'm completely satisfied with the re-plant. Lots more room and I can actually enjoy watching the shrimp without having to search them out. The Eriocaulon will of course grow uber-fast and I'll continuously have to trim and replant it to create the effect that I'm using it for now. Hopefully with more light the downoi will start throwing off plantlets with the increased lighting exposure as I've yet to propagate any yet.

Cheers


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Finally a picture large enough for a background! And the tank doesn't look half bad either!  

I love the reflection of the white sand in the back glass, it looks like the sand continues and then crests the top of a small hill and disappears...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

What a difference! Looks fantastic! Love the "No Entry" shrimp...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i think the tank looks great, never been a fan of sand rivers but if youre the kind of person that likes those, the tank is amazing. i would have replanted the HC a little thicker though if i were you (for faster regrowth), but since it was from that tank before there is no acclamitization period so it should be soon anyway.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks gents. As far as the sand river goes... It could have been done a little better I'm sure. The tank I really wanted to re-created has a sand path in a "Y" shape but the shallow depth of the tank didn't allow me that much wiggle room. It gives a nice contrast and is a really good spot to feed the shrimp to get the them all out in the open. 
On the HC re-plant, yea it could have been thicker but I wanted it to take a while. The dark Amazonia soil makes the CRS colors pop a little more than the bright green of HC carpet.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Tank looks great MrJg! I call dibbs on the first batch of CRS that you sell!


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

I think it is awesome!!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*HD video*

So a few months back I found myself in possession of a fairly nice sony HD handycam that needed to be tested for work. I totally forgot that I had taken quite a bit of video of the tank and uploaded it on the mac until today.
I chucked what I took into iMovie and cranked out a fairly rough video. Music is provided by Mr. Adam Franklin - Ramonesland. 

Its ~70 Meg and encoded in DIVX if you care to check it out. Wish I could share it in the uncompressed format as it really does look stunning in full HD.
Supa mega awesome video here. 

I consider this a previous incarnation of the tank as a good portion of the plants and fauna are no longer there. Glad I captured it in this version, I feel like the tank is going another direction now. It certainly did have a lot more movement with the White Clouds in there. Makes me a little more impatient about getting things going on the 40G Breeder Community. 

I'm struggling with a bit of algae at the moment. Its of the "fuzzy attaching to plants" variety... not really totally sure what it is. I've removed the plants most affected by this and have them in a bath of excel+water overnight. Its no doubt something that is caused by the inconsistent DIY CO2, I'm strongly considering doing a pressurized setup for this tank soon to remedy problems like this. Other than that the tank is doing well and recovering from the recent hack job. I now have multiple berried CBS and CRS woohoo! Heres to hoping I get a decent survival rate and can begin to get a breeding colony established.

Edit: Doh had to zip the file so it would download properly.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Sweet video, man! Tank looks be-yoo-ti-ful!!!

The tunes ain't bad either


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Cool beans man. I'm glad someone watched it, It took me several minutes to cut it up/edit it.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, what can I say --
You did label it "Super Mega Awesome"... How could I _not_ watch it?!?

Seriously though, very serene looking tank!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

The tank has changed a little due to the algae that I'm still figuring out. Dumped all of the Eriocaulon 'setaceum' much to my wife's dismay and half of the Downoi that was infested. 
I've stopped dosing phosphates almost entirely to see if the elevated levels have something to do with it. I tend to try to run fairly lean on ferts due to having CRS/berried/babies in the tank. I'm trying to do a better job of upping the nitrate dosing a bit throughout the week. I think its about time to get some iron to dose as well, up until now I've been relying on what has been available in 'Flourish'. I've been on top of the DIY CO2 like a banshee so I'm somewhat confident at this point that its (algae) not completely due to fluctuating CO2 levels. I'm going to stick to the severely limited phosphate train for the next few weeks and see if that makes any impact.

dirty nasty algae oh how I loathe the:









Its present in the high flow areas the most. There is some on the blyxa just to the right of the pictured plant. The rest of the tank seems to be doing well with only a tiny amount of impact at most. Its just one little thing off somewhere, I barely have any other type of algae that crops up. I only have to scrape a tiny bit off the glass every couple of weeks. 

Some random images:




























Tried to get a decent fts with no luck but I came out with this one that was pretty cool. 



I'm beating myself up and considering dropping the lighting down; Make this a low light tank and move the demanding plants to the 40 breeder for a display tank. Now that there are CRS babies in there hidden in the moss I'm crazy paranoid to do my normal hack trims. It would probably be better to not have my hands in the tank every week along with the 50% waterchange. .. but then again if they are raised in that environment would it not make them less susceptible to this causing them issues in someone else's tank later? Meh.

Cheers,
Jimmjamesjoehenrybob


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

What a bummer about losing so much Downoi... HC looks great from the end shot. Keep it clean so I can hit you up for some in a couple weeks!:hihi:

What's the plant in your last photo, center of the frame, 1/3 of the way down? I think I need some!

Lookin' good brother!!!

BTW -- SWD in Toronto 6/13!!! Might be able to swing it, too...


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

wow, I am about to set up a 20 long, and may I say, wow


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

Gorgeous tank! love the shrimps and the whole thing.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks guys. Hopefully I can lick this little algae issue and be happy with the tank again. 

rb73: yea the HC is starting to carpet back up again. I should be able to fix you up with a patch in a few weeks. Hmm the plant 1/3 of the way down... could be the limnophila 'mini'? or the peacock moss? of the bright green ricca?

I'll be catching SWD at the Cat's Cradle in Carborro, NC, NY, and then Brookyln. I'd hit you up to show us the sights but I know you'll be busy 'round that time!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i like it before, i still like it. can i get a recent shot of the whole tank plz?

your getting a 20L fishman? good for you; i love those tanks, large enough to be stable, small enough not to be considered an indoor pool, and it has good proportions.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

marko I'll see if I can manage to get a good one tomorrow... tank lights go out at 9.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*fts 4 marko*

Ok this is the best I could do at 1pm lights on thus no pearling just yet.  I really need a better camera and some skills. 



It looks a lot better from the end lol. Its turned into a bit of a mash with tons of plant types in there for the moment. I'm trying out a number of plants to see if they suit my plan for the 40. A few things I got with trades like the hygro/hairgrass. A few things I'm growing out.. narrow leaf java fern/crypt 'green gecko'. I got the E. Tenellus from cmlaracy when he was selling off some of his plants to replace the plant mass of blyxa/downoi/and erios I tossed from the algae.

I've had a few folks ask me questions about my DIY CO2 rig so I snapped a quick pic of that...










I'm going to paste one of those responses here. 

I use the method here except I put the jello in shallow tupperware containers and then into the "quick freeze" in our freezer. It only takes ~ 1 hour for it to gel up. Then I cut it into strips or squares (it breaks up anyway) and put it into a large gatorade container. Breaking it up allows for the water/yeast to gain access to more surface area of the sugar trapped in the jello, I read a post by either Tom Barr or Rex Grigg suggesting this at some point. Normally it puts CO2 out like mad for ~2-3 weeks then I open it up and drain just the top layer and add more water/yeast for the next 2 weeks. I just redo the whole thing when I notice a serious slowdown or my drop checker starts getting a tinge of blue. 

I think there a few variables that alot of DIY folks tend to miss. You really need to get CO2 proof tubing for your setup and not use normal silicone tubing as it bleeds a % of your generated CO2 before it even gets to the tank. Second you need a efficient way to diffuse the CO2 getting into the tank by using a ceramic diffuser or something similar. Also I used the "drill a diameter smaller hole than your tubing" method for ensuring seals on all of the caps. I added a small amount of super glue 'gel' just to be sure. Adding the second collection chamber stops the white snot looking stuff from going into your tank.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

everythings looking really nice! 

But ever since the beginning I've been wondering, "when the hell is he gonna get some pressurized CO2?!?" But you my friend have lasted longer and fared better on DIY CO2 than anyone I have ever seen. God job!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Haha thanks dude. I think mrkookm wins the award for the most awesome diy co2 tank for me. 

I'll be going pressurized with the 40 breeder... its getting closer to setup time.


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## jolywoo (May 6, 2006)

nice aquarium! I was always impressed at the way you were able to maintain such a healthy aquarium with diy co2. I couldnt do it, had to switch to pressurized. What kind of bubble rate is it producing, roughly, in bpm/bps?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks!
I have no idea on the bps... I've always just used the drop checker. Never figured I'd get too much with DIY so didn't bother setting up a bubble counter.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

> Adding the second collection chamber stops the white snot looking stuff from going into your tank.


 That was the part I missed back in the day. I really hated that little kid snot stuff.


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## chizamp (Apr 12, 2008)

That video was supa mega awesome. You got some really nice closeups of the shrimp! Your tank looks excellent, I am very jealous of it. Nicely done!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Haha thanks dude. I had to go back and take a peek at the video myself after you posted that.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wait...so you have DIY jello CO2 with a glass diffuser? Does the canister filter output blow it around to the rest of the tank?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

:thumbsup: Yep. Pretty much.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

How do you clean the diffuser? If it ever needs to be cleaned?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

what IS that? my DIY CO2 is usually white-ish.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Erm... did you read the paragraph below the picture?


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Brilliant as always! Sorry if you have posted this, couldn't find it --What is your lighting period?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

TF: Lighting period is 8 hours total time. 1x65 PC is on the whole time. 2x24W T5HO is on for 2-3 hours for a burst. 

Thanks for the comments!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

ZTM: I totally missed your question about cleaning the diffuser. When it starts looking a little trashed I swap it out with another one. I take the dirty one and put it in a cup with a bleach/water solution for a few days, then water/dechlor for a few more days. Cleans them up good as new.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

How is everything going with this tank? Haven't had an update in a while...
:icon_eek:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its meh. Had a little issue with the fuzz algae, which you knew  and that is pretty much cleared up. I pulled up the HC again and sold it off to buy some plants for the 40. It has some extras stuffed in there right now: Lobelia small form, Rotala 'pusilla', and a some java fern 'trident'. 

Its just chugging along but not quite in picture shape because of the plant holding.
I have almost tripled my Tonina F. stems, started with 5 and now have 14 nice heads going. Some roughed up Rotala 'mini' I got in a trade are finally starting to look decent too. 

Added some yellow shrimp a while back and they are starting to propagate a little. CRS not so much, darn things berry/release and then I can't get the babies going. I just started adding a little calcium and epsom salt to bring up the GH a bit. Maybe that was the issue but its too early to tell. 

Its early to tell but after I get the 40 running and going I might be re-doing this one as well.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

OK dude. Seriously -- is thing thing still alive?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*Forest Garden - Stanley Jordan*

Since Roy won't give me any rest I guess I gotta update.  Chillin' on Sat afternoon with some nice musac... figured I'd snap a few shots. 

Before the images here what's been going on with this thing. After I ripped everything out a while back (its in the journal somewhere) and replanted I had some algae take hold before everything was re-established. Had to lower the lighting and drop a few hours off the schedule for a while until the plants could do their thing. I've always run this tank fairly lean as far as water column nutrients so doing everything at once just tipped the scale a bit too far. Once that was taken care of and for the past several months its been pretty hands off sans a 40-50% WC every 1.5-2 weeks and some nitrates/potassium/flourish here and there.
I was hoping by not mucking with stuff too much the CRS colony could take hold... didn't happen. I have had so many births but I have yet to be able to raise the shrimplets past the first few days. I'm going to move a few pairs including one berried female over to the 2.5G low light that NEVER gets any ferts and see how they fare over there. Only other inhabitants are some Yellows (neocardina sp.) and a few Otocinclus... and lots of snails and lower level organisms. Never know though there could be a nice colony of juvie shrimplets in the giant mass of peacock moss in the middle. 

fts:


I got a stem of Ludwigia 'Pantanal' with the last fern I got from Mr. Barr that I've been trying to propagate. Running lean on ferts makes this a little tricky. I've stunted two stems already. :O Heh. 

















Here's some nifty Mutated Rotala sp 'mini' type I that I've been keeping for the heck of it. It seems to have lots more leaves per whorl than my other Rotalas and gives a little red/bronze color on the tips. 









I thought this came out pretty cool. Limnophila 'aromatica' that I use to cover the equipment in the back left of the tank.









Guess thats it for now. Still doing DIY CO2 with the normal mixture, I still do the jello if I feel froggy. The 65W PC and 2x24W T5HO are running concurrently for 8 hours daily now. At the time of these snapshots I hadn't scraped the glass in 3 weeks. 

Cheers,
James


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*Its been a while so...*

I posted this as an update on the local club forum and thought to do a copy/paste here as well. 

Figured I'd try to snap a few new pics of the tank tonight to capture the new inhabitants. The tank has changed a little bit as I'm starting to try a little more difficult soft water plants like Tonina 'belem', 'la grande', more 'fluviatilis'. I'm also doing well killing Eriocaulon 'cinereum' in this tank... I guess they weren't in the best shape already coming from over seas so I'm not beating myself up over it too bad... Its starting to be more of a "buy this plant and see if I can keep it alive" tank as opposed to worrying about any kind of cohesive scape. Since this tank is really stable it gives me a good idea what I'm going to have trouble with. 

All of the Rotalas and Ludwiga have been removed to help stabalize things in the 40 breeder and allow room to try more things out. 

The narrow leaf fern on the left I'll be chopping up soon for our next club meeting. I really never intended to leave it in there as long as I have and its gotten out of control. I got a few small starter rhizomes from a RAOK "badcopnofishtank" did back in Feb. Maybe 1.5-2 inches with baby leaves. Tied them to a rock and chucked them in there and this is what came of it. I'll probably be returning the favor soon with a harvest of baby plants from both tanks. 

Added a pair of German Gold Rams that I snagged up during the local club's yearly auction in early Oct. and they are settling in nicely. Its nice having fish back in the tank. 

I didn't realize the water level had gotten a little low when I started to take the pictures and was too lazy to top it off. :O 

Full tank









Tonina 'Fluviatilis'









Whos there?









Taking pictures of plants is so much easier... I need to work on my fish picture taking skills. These are the best I could do of the new Gold Rams.

Male









Female









They seem to compliment the tank fairly well since its all their domain. Male chases a lot but I guess thats to be expected (these are my first cichlid sp.). They fit right in with the yellow shrimp so far, not pestering the adults too much. I keep them fed well.

Cheers,
James


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

wow, I cant believe that is just DIY CO2, wow results like that seem insane!:thumbsup:
What do you do at night? Do you do anything special such as generating air bubbles to remove excess CO2 at night? Also, what do you use to distribute that CO2 bubbles?
Ohh, and what is your wc and fert schedule like?

And what's the plant behind Tonina 'Fluviatilis' in the pic?


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

What a beautiful 20L. Such a clean look. Love it!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Mizu-chan: Thanks! Yours is quite awesome as well.  

skratikans: Thanks! How about that Gator bowl... man that pretty much summed up the whole season. :-/

Aye its still DIY for now. Although I let it go for a bit too long over the holidays and while getting the 40 breeder stabilized... I'm suffering from a nasty spirogyra outbreak right now because of it. Its back to running only the 65W fixture for 6 hours a day until I can beat it back. Never dealt with this stuff before and unfortunately from what I read it likes optimum growing conditions for plants. :help:

I do normally run an air stone at night to bleed off a little of the CO2 but during the last month or so the stupid stone fell off of the hose plug thingy so I just raise the spray bar up a bit to get some good surface agitation after lights out. Gotta stop by and get a new stone. 

CO2 is diffused though a generic glass piece from aquatic magic on ebay. Seems to work decently and more recently I've placed that under the filter intake to try to get it around the tank a little more. 

I'll snap some new pics tomorrow since its been a while. I had to ditch the narrow leaf fern on the left because it had grown so big. I think the plant you are asking about is the dark patch in the middle of the fern? Its Fissiden Fontanus moss... now locked in a mortal battle with spirogyra.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

sorry to hear about the spirogyra. looking forward to some pics though!

and i love those gold rams


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm also looking forward to an update!


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

Yeah, maybe clemson will get lucky next year..lol

I never thought you could grow HC and I was truly amazed to see you did, how is it doing now? What's your fert routine and wc? Im really impressed that your shrimp are doing so well...heck Im very impressed, this is the best DIY thread I have ever come across thus far


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I pulled out pretty much all of the HC to make room to try some eriocaulons which unfortunately when they came in were at the end of their life cycle (small cut plants with flower buds attached). One managed to make it but its not showing any signs of new growth. :-/
I still have a few tiny sprigs of HC floating around the tank. I considered trying to grow it back again but the female Gold Ram is having none of that. She floats by and pulls any sprigs I try to plant right up. I have a few pieces that have taken hold and I've transplanted a few pieces of glossostigma in there so we'll see which one wins.
Honestly the shrimp aren't doing that well. I think the yellow neocardina do a bit better with a more basic setup with PH in the 7 range with a tad more hardness. They are living but not breeding as readily as the red cherries in my low light tank where the water is more neutral. 

Fert regime up until now has been the full seachem line at roughly 1.5-2x suggested dosing for NPK. Flourish for macros and excel at recommended levels occasionally when I get too lazy to change the DIY mixture when it slowed. Water changes are once a week maybe 40-50%.

Honestly I think the biggest factor in the success of this tank (even given the occasional issues that come down to my lack of attention) is the Aquasoil. The stuff just works and grows plants well. Well worth the extra coin. 
Its probably getting to the point soon where I'm going to have to start dosing dry ferts as its been setup and running now for what 1.5 years? I'm sure the nutrient levels originally in the soil are probably on reserve level if not already gone.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Ok I just got a few quick shots between the wildcard games heh. The pics aren't too great but I don't really have time to set up for better ones today. Didn't turn off the filter so there are bubbles flying around etc.

I'm feelin' a re-scape on this tank somewhere close down the road. It was a blast to do on the 40G and I feel like I can do a better job this time. 

Plants that are still in there:
rotala 'verticillaris' or whatever the new Pogostemon name is
Rotala Macrandra 'green'
Tonina 'fluviatilis'
Tonina 'belem'
Tonina 'lao grande'
Some Downoi
Fissiden Fontanus
Few baby Blyxa Japonica
few rhizomes of Java Fern 'trident' and 'narrow leaf'
Peacock moss
a few other odds n ends
AND LOTS OF THREAD/SPIROGYRA booooooo! You can't really see it in the pics but trust me its there in spades. :-(




























Now its time to buckle down and clear up this little outbreak.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

its very green :icon_cool looks good!


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Your Toninas are looking very good!


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

Your tank looks very nice, even with the outbreak
I think that the reason your CRS arent breeding or fairing well is due to the pH, Many people that keep them often keep their pH around 6.5 or so, maybe you should try doing that and see what happens


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## infinite07 (Dec 20, 2008)

Hope the new scape will look a lot more better. Also, the plants do look really green.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow I love all the Toninas!!! And the Fissidens rocks!!!


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

MrJG said:


> I've had a few folks ask me questions about my DIY CO2 rig so I snapped a quick pic of that...


I was looking at you DIY CO2 setup, and I was wondering what was in the second Gatorade bottle that was clear?


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

Beautiful plants. I'm shocked that you don't do any fert dosing. Even with AS. Jeff Senske says he at least adds Potassium. Wonder if that's why your Erios had trouble?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

skratikans: the second bottle is a collection chamber to keep that white snotty looking stuff from getting in the tank. Its simple and works quite well.

Tex Gal: I absolutely do additional fert dosing. I imagine the tank would be quite a disaster without it. I just don't do dry fert dosing. This tank only gets the watered down seachem NPK + flourish products at slightly higher than recommended levels but I imagine that its still pretty lean compared to a full on EI regimen. 

I honestly think the problem with the erios is that they were already hurting when I got them from overseas. Packed in little baseball card style packets, smashed flat, only one or two leaves each and every one of them had a stem on it as they were probably separated from a flowering plant. It just as easily could have been a problem with my water chemistry as well which is why I never worried too much about it. If I try these again I'll be getting some nice plants from someone here instead.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

That makes more sense!


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

MrJG said:


> skratikans: the second bottle is a collection chamber to keep that white snotty looking stuff from getting in the tank. Its simple and works quite well.


Is that second bottle empty or is it filled with something, from the picture it looks as if its filled have way with water..maybe it's just me:redface:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its about halfway filled with water just to give the stuff something to cling to. Neither of the tubes are in the water. Since I've set the system up I've never even cracked the top of that bottle.


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

How is the algae battle coming?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its coming along... although there is still some there. From the things I've read this stuff isn't particularly easy to get rid of since it basically likes the same conditions as the plants.

I did tear everything down a few weeks ago, removed plants and all hardscape pieces for a thorough hand cleaning in a bucket to take off as much of the stuff as I could. Topped everything to the same relative size and did a potassium pomegranate dip then an excel dip. After that I rinsed everything a ton then did a re-scape, removed the sand, and added maybe 1.5-2 more liters of new Aquasoil. 

I removed a few species entirely but kept the Toninas and the Pogostemon sp. If I have a moment this afternoon I'll snap a few updated pictures. Its still got a week or so for the stems to grow in though. I dropped the light to the 1x65W PC fixture @ 7 hours a day and may lop another hour off of it.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*Re-scaping 2 clean algae*

So I was able to manage a few good pics. Cropped and color corrected them using a color curve layer to get as close to possible to how the tank actually looks although it still varies a bit from image to image. :iamwithst

Few notes on the re-scape. 

I wanted to keep the hardscape visible and added a few new stones. They are the same type as the originals so they'll need to age a bit in the tank before they get the same color. I added a few pieces of manzanita that I had laying about, the one in the center is still floating a bit.
I'm hoping everything will grow at close to the same rate so my next set of pictures can be the money shot... which is something I'm now learning. 

fts:









3/4 above, This is pretty much how the tank is normally viewed:


Left:









Right:









A few closer up of the plants:

Tonina 'belem':









Pogostemons:









And if you can't tell from the other pics... the algae is still there. Mainly its in the Fissidens still because its pretty much impossible to get out without ripping the whole growth to shreds. I hope that I can get it to subside. Dig that tasty string...









Tis all for now. Any feedback or ideas on how to battle this string/spirogyra crap would be awesome.


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## Pinto (Jan 23, 2009)

Your tank look so neat n clean. Looks COOL!!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Does the DIY CO2 work well with that diffuser?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Yep... its the same one thats been in the tank since it was set up. Granted I don't get a flood of bubbles like I do with the pressurized setup but it does work.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

looks really good! i'm diggin the all green look. can't wait for the 'money' shots to come.


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

you could get some amano shrimp, they would make a meal of that algae

You dont use a glass cover or anything in your tank, right? How do you make sure that the CO2 doesnt build up too much at night (or is that not much of a problem since it DIY)?

I love how your scape constantly changes, I guess thats half the fun when you have plants growing so well
Are you still growing pellia?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

There are 2-3 large amanos in there... either they don't touch it or they can't keep up with it. 

I had a glass cover on but have taken it off for the last few months. As far as CO2 buildup I normally wouldn't think it would be a problem but I run an air stone at night just to bleed a little off. 

Yea I guess I do go through plants but the hard scape didn't change until the last time.  Since this was my first high light tank its been a learning experience and lots of plants have come and gone as I got a little work in with them. I guess I got a little collectoritis too.

Algae is still there. I'm still not really sure what to do to get it to go away, the reduced lighting period doesn't seem to be slowing it down at all. 

Plant growth is still good though. I tried to time the last trim for a good picture but the Toninas are almost to the surface... the Pogostemon is content to stay low and split instead of growing up. Guess its going to take one more to find the sweet spot.


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

Any updates on the tank? Are you still battling that stringy algae?


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## hilikus16 (Nov 6, 2008)

what's the plant with the oval leaves in the midground behind the rock on the right? is it difficult to grow?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*How to cure spirogyra*

skratikans: Absolutely. I think the battle is over but will wait a few weeks to declare total victory. Preparing an update via a set of tank progression photos since this thing has been running for a while and seen a few changes along the way. 

Just pasting this here from the 'algae' forum since it worked so well. 

Good news! 

The tank has been through 4 treatments since starting the battle on Feb. 17th with one day off in there. One of the spots that had the most outbreak (other than the fissidens) was within a cluster of Lobelia small form, at this point I can barely see any places on the leaves where the stuff used to be. Its almost all gone but I'm going to do a few more treatments this week to try to completely eradicate it.

All fauna were left in the tank while these doses were applied. There didn't seem to be any outward signs of discomfort. 
Everything plant wise in the tank is doing great and didn't suffer any kind of ill effects and much the opposite I've seen a boost in healthy growth from all of the excel. These include:
Pogostemon 'erectus' + 'helferi'
Tonina 'belem', 'fluviatilis', and 'lago grande'
Peacock moss
Fissiden Fontanus
Lobelia Cardinalis small form
Lindernia

In fact the only issue I see from all of this chemical warfare is a slight bacterial bloom due to all the water changing. Imeridian's carpet bomb method even though it was born out of his frustration works quite well at least to initially combat this stuff back in place. Only time will tell if the stuff can/will make a comeback.

-----------------------------------------

A few notes that I've learned about this stuff followed by a day by day account of what I did...

From everything I read one of the main triggers for this type is an ammonia spike. Even though my tank has been set up since mid-'07 I did add some Boraras 'merah' to the tank a bit back (prior to having the outbreak) and lost 5-6 of them and never found the bodies. This could have been my trigger. In addition to that after nothing else worked I tore the whole tank down and re-scaped adding back in maybe 3-4 liters of new aquasoil. Obviously adding another ammonia spike to the existing problem only made it worse, even with semi daily water changes to control it as the packaging suggests. If your situation is different (i.e. brand new tank set up, cycling tank with aquasoil) then the main thing to take care of first is the excess ammonia. 

All this talk of ammonia and I honestly never tested the tank throughout any of this which is kind of a shame, it would have been nice to know what levels were present. The tank has Gold Rams, shrimp, tetras in it and I never saw any issues with them other than the loss of the boraras (which by the way was only a day or two after initially adding them). I have the feeling that this spike was relatively minor.

-------------------------------------------

While I do not advocate doing this type of chemical warfare on any tank with fish present those that have experienced this type of algae will know that its one of the harder ones to eradicate. After the algae takes hold it likes the same conditions that healthy growing plants do: good ferts, light, CO2, and generous tank flow. From what I've read lowering lighting period/intensity, reduction in dosing, or blackouts alone will not work and will only go to exacerbate the problem greatly. When you have this stuff the only thing saving you from a complete takeover is the presence of a stock of mid-heavily planted healthy growing plants. 
Using this method was basically the last stand for me before completely tearing down the tank, nuking everything with bleach, and tossing all plants/hardscape items. 

Tank subject:

Mature tank - set up since '07
20G long - containing roughly 16-18 gallons of water after substrate/hardscape
1x65W current PC lighting
XP1 canister
DIY CO2 distributed via glass spiral diffuser (diligently maintained)
ADA AS amazonia

During the method below I have ceased all NPK fertilization and only added macros, ca, and a little epsom salts back in after the water changes to reconstitute our low-0 GH/KH water slightly. I did this as most how-tos I read on removing spirogyra recommended to do so. 

Method

Day 1:
Dropped lighting to 5 hours daily
Manual removal of as much as possible.
Cleaned filter pads - generous cleaning of canister while attempting to preserve as much biological filtration as possible
80% water change
cranked an airstone up for the first 24 hours
1ml/g of excel - 20ml for me even though the tank is only probably holding 16 gallons or so
2ml/g of H202 - Stopped at 25ml on this just to be sure, I'll up it tomorrow given no ill effects

24 hours after the initial attack there was no new growth of the algae and the strands that were present had a definite change in texture and health. The remaining strands while still there were swaying in the current much easier than pre-dosing. 

Day 2:
50% water change
changed the airstone back to only running during night power cycle
1ml/g of excel - 20ml for me 
1ml/g of H202 - Again 20ml for me. Since the initial dosing had such great effect I didn't see the need for doubling the dose especially knowing I was going to continue the process for several weeks.

24 hours after second attack the algae is starting to recede. Strands are roughly half the length of the previous day and still showing the "dead and lifeless" look flowing in the current. No new algae growth. 

Day 3:
off

Day 4:
Since things seemed to be progressing I skipped the water change on this day.
1ml/g of excel - 20ml 
1ml/g of H202 - 20ml

No new algae growth, still receding.

Day 5:
50% water change
1ml/g of excel - 20ml
1ml/g of H202 - 20ml

No new algae growth, still receding.

Day 6:
That brings us to today which I'm going to be giving the tank a day off to settle a bit. 

I plan on repeating the process on MWF until I'm satisfied that I no longer see any new growth. Until then I'll be maintaining the lighting period at 5 hours and will probably begin dosing again at half EI levels to see if this initiates any new algae growth. My main concern at this point is the tennis ball sized growth of Fissidens Fontanus and the fact that the algae had invaded it pretty severely. I imagine if it does crop back up again it'll be there first and I'll have to remove/dispose of that. I'll try to get some comparison pics up of that infected section since we have a good image of the "infected and pre-treated" growth already.

Sorry for the hella long post but I thought it might be beneficial for those who are unfortunately experiencing this stuff.

------------------------------------------------------

A few pics of the carnage to show the improvements. Keep in mind that I had a pretty major outbreak that if left uncleaned for 48 hours or so would leave columns of this stuff growing up from the most affected areas. I was on/in just about everything. 

Pre-treated section









Treated section:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*Tank progression*

hilikus16: That is Lobelia cardinalis 'Small Form'. Its been fairly easy for me with aquasoil high light and DIY CO2. 

Since the tank has been up for almost 2 years now its been through a few changes. Its been a huge learning experience for me since this is my first "high light" tank. As you can see from the photos I changed plants quite a bit as I saw stuff I liked... grew them then moved on to other plants. 
As it sits now the tank is a test to see how I do growing some of the plants that are claimed to be a little harder to keep up. Granted with already soft tap and aquasoil they seem to be pretty happy even through the spirogyra outbreak.  

From the beginning this tank has always had a DIY CO2 rig distributed through a generic spiro glass diffuser, 65W (10k,6.5k) PC fixture, XP1 canister filter. 


First planted May 07









July 07 









dec 07









feb 08 replant









april 08 side shot









april 08









aug 08 









jan 09









jan 09 full re-scape 









March 09 - from today


















Any comments are appreciated. Thanks for reading.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

MrJG said:


> Any comments are appreciated. Thanks for reading.


i think it looks great!

i like how you posted the changes the tank has gone through. it really gives you an idea of what you were trying to accomplish from start to now.

the only thing i don't really care for in the current scape is the light colored drift wood right in the middle. it's a focal point for me and my eyes are drawn to it instead of the whole thing. that's just me though. i might be weird or something...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

op: thanks man. As far as what I've been trying to accomplish... I haven't really had much of a plan other than learning how to grow things. I mean I "planned" the layout but as far as having an idea of how a scape will look in the end, I'm still working on that part. :O 

I definitely see that with the little chunk of driftwood. I had a few pieces lying around that got added in there during the replanting kind of as an afterthought. I may try to move it around a bit or just take both pieces out entirely as things grow in. 

Thanks for the feedback man!


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Im just in the beginning of my DIY CO2 tank, so I really look forward to reading this journal, it has helped me A LOT


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Just a quick tank update snapshot since it will likely be another month before I'll have another chance to update. 
I removed the small piece of driftwood from the front.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Sweet! How's the algae battle coming along? Did you ever get the upper hand with the Spiro?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

The battle is over. The stuff is toast. There is a post midway up on the last page that explains what I did but basically ODed H2O2 and Excel along with multiple large water changes for a week. 
Wish I could have gotten a better pic but I'm a little pressed for time this evening... and lazy.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Glad to hear you beat it -- I saw your battle regimen, and have been following it myself. I've noticed the stuff taking a big hit over the last week -- thanks for the write-up!


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Glad to hear you beat it -- I saw your battle regimen, and have been following it myself. I've noticed the stuff taking a big hit over the last week -- thanks for the write-up!


 
x2 That was a great write up on spiro. I a glad you shared it, I am starteing to notice some in my 10gal. Where as I just tore the tank down last time it took over, this time I will put your treatment to work and see what comes of it. 

Tank looks great also.


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## sykogngsta (Apr 12, 2008)

I was wondering how much aquasoil you have in the tank. Is it 12L or do you have more than 12L? I am in the process of setting up a 20L also and I'm not sure on how much aquasoil would be sufficient for my tank.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

sykogngsta: Initially I started out with 12L but I had quite a significant amount of sand for right in the middle. Since the rescape I probably added back in 5-6L more to make up for it. Trust me buy extra otherwise you'll be kicking yourself later when you want to set up a nano.


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

I ve been doing the jello method for diy co2, how long does your co2 steadily made before you have to mess with the setup?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Generally depending on how well I hit the mixture (I only measure the sugar) it lasts a solid 2.5-3 weeks before I start noticing it slowing down, then I open up the bottle and refresh the yeast and add a little water which keeps it going for another week or two before I start from scratch. 

More recently I've been experimenting with no-CO2. I've dropped 2 hours a day off the lighting schedule and its now been ~3 weeks without any injection. Markedly slower growth from the stems which isn't really a bother but no signs of anything algae related other than the regular dust on the glass. I don't think the Lobelia is liking the lack of CO2 though as I see a few chunks floating around. The wife hasn't noticed that I'm pushing my luck with this tank yet... its her favorite in the house at the moment. :icon_twis


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

ok, I have had mine last for 2-2.5weeks..I was wondering if I should then dump the liquid and fill it back up with yeast and sugar...let that phase out before dumping the rest of the jello and starting from scratch..
I agree with your wife, that 20 is my fav too and was one of the reasons I decided to try to do diy co2
Did you ever have problems with hair or fuzzy algae in that tank?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Yep I did have a little problem with it quite a while back due to me being less than diligent about keeping the CO2 levels up alongside a major re-plant which took out a lot of plant mass and disturbed the substrate pretty good (ammonia). As things took hold and I kept the CO2 consistent it eventually went away without any kind of action.


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

How are things going?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Meh... I've let this tank go. Bought a pressurized setup a while back, got the tank filled, had a leak and dumped the whole tank. Its been sitting like that for a few weeks now. No CO2, same light period. I'm bored with it right now and its been begging for a new layout for about 4 months already. I'm just going to let it continue to go downhill until I find or buy some new scaping materials then strip it down and start from scratch. 
I'm still keeping all of the other tanks in the house up but this ones time has come. It just irks me to look at it right now so it only gets water top offs and fish feedings. :O

In the next few weeks I think our extra bedroom will be turning into a fish/ferret room and that will probably renew my enthusiasm for rebuilding this tank. I'll be keeping the same thread for it so stay tuned.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

*Reborninated*

Copy/pasting this from our club forum as an update...

Well its been that time for my 20 long for quite a while. Ripped it up this weekend for a restart. Figured I'd post one of my favorite pics of the tank in all of its changes as a way of saying cya.










No plants were kept, honestly I just let the tank go over the summer and stopped fertilizing etc. and most things met a rough end. :O 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have moved all of my tanks now into our spare bedroom that is a tank/ferret playground. Still trying to figure out how to "ferret proof" tanks. 

Finally got this puppy planted friday night so these are going to be the baseline pics for the tank as it progresses forward.

Its layout is sort of iwagumi style but I wont be sticking strictly to a single type of ground cover.
Going for a nice Utricularia graminifolia foreground with some small bushes of blyxa japonica in the back. Some other small plantings of rotala 'vietnam' and bacopa 'japan' are behind the rocks and should be poking out in the coming weeks.
Going to work on getting a nice bushy stand of staurogyne 'porto velho' in the right rear and hopefully I can propagate this new Hygro sp. purple on the front left. 

Here are a few snapshot type baseline pics...

Full tank:









UG:









Staurogyne 'Porto Velho':









Hygro sp. Purple:









Thats it for now... more pics later as things start to settle and grow in. 

Tank specz:
20 long
1x65W PC with 6.5/10K dual daylight bulb @ 8 hours daily
rena xp1 canister
ada aquasoil amazonia substrate
co2 @ 30+ppm 
Estimative Index dosing regime using dry ferts


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

I like your old tank man... but I think your new setup is going to look even better once it fills in. Can't wait to see it in a few months.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks man. Now its just time to let nature take its course. 

I haven't been around for a few months but I had a peek at your 40 breeder journal. Very nice looking tank and the photographs are excellent. Mind sharing your secrets... or at least camera specs/setup?


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## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

I love your old tank.... but the new one Iwaguchi style ain't bad neither... Keep it simple and it will look really good!!!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Haha good to know my Iwaguchi isn't bad! hehe, just messin with ya. Thanks for the kind comments. 

Tested the tank yesterday and it was ready for fishes. Went and grabbed some sticky fingers which conveniently was close to the local fish place. Ended up grabbing 19 Celestial pearls or the orange finned variety and 9 cory pygmaeus. They fit the tank scale really well.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I took a quick snapshot to update my local forum thread on this so I figured I'd copy&paste over here. 

This one has gotten out of control. The Blyxa Japonica has engulfed the hardscape and will need to be thinned soon.. its starting to get nice golden tops though. I'm still not sold on the Utriculara Gramminifolia as its there and growing but I think I need to pump even more CO2 for it to look the way I imagined it would. Over holiday I'll have time to bring it up slowly while monitoring the livestock. If it doesn't get super awesome looking really fast I think I'm going to 86 it and bring the low growing hygro around front to fill everything in. 
Livestock wise not much to report... lost one of the cory cats  but no breeding as I can tell from the CPDs yet. Not as though I expect it as live foods haven't been offered. 
Little spirogyra algae flaring up at the moment but I have a proven method for killing it. I did it myself anyway running an additional 40W T5HO over the front to boost the UG growth. 

Pardon the in tank heater, my inline Hydor died and its necessity until I get a new one.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Niceee this tank looks awesome


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Super nice! I think the UG looks pretty good, actually. It just takes some time to spread out, that's all. It looks healthy!


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

wow looks amazing! Where did you get your ug from?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

What's up, Blyxa farmer?

Looking good man! UG will be _very_ nice once it fills in. I like seeing a "wild" looking tank from you - yours are usually kinda neat and orderly :hihi:

Whatever happened to the 40 breeder?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks all! 

Church: methinks it looks healthier in the pic than it does in reality. its pretty gnarly looking stuff in general, not sure how folks get it looking all perfect. 

skratikans: I think I got the UG from Dollface here on the forums...

RB73: Blyxa is like a given for me. Put the stuff in aquasoil and hold on, wish all stems were that easy. And yea you know I like it all manicured looking, its a disease of sorts. Planted tank OCD. The 40 breeder is still rockin' but its basically a holding and growout tank for Tropica Staurogyne sp. right now. Trying to get enough ready to do a true iwagumi layout with it in a spare 10G. With my laziness it goes from trimmed and clean to a jungle with BBA in no-time flat. I really should do better about keeping canisters clean... I haven't touched the one on the 20 since setup. :-/


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Very cool look you have going here JG! That blyxa is incredible and it looks great growing between the rocks like that. I think the only drawback of blyxa is that it becomes a bad trap for debris (in my dirty tanks anyway.)

I still miss that beautiful Tonina 'belem' you had long ago in the right corner, but I guess it would look funny in this scape. 



MrJG said:


> Pardon the in tank heater, my inline Hydor died and its necessity until I get a new one.


How long did your Hydor last? Just curious because I have one too. 



MrJG said:


> I really should do better about keeping canisters clean... I haven't touched the one on the 20 since setup. :-/


I feel your pain. I'm not sure why something that takes ten minutes is always so hard to get around to.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

ff: It becomes a trap for pygmy cories and CPDs in my tank lol. 

If I remember right I bought the hydor mid-'07 or so. Sucks that it died but at least it didn't stick in the on position. 

The UG is finally coming around for me but my planted tank ocd means I need to get in there with scissors and clean up the gnarly bits that have odd growth.


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## lg0815 (Aug 24, 2009)

what kind of sand was that that u made the river with


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

It was pavestone brand pool filter sand from HD. [email protected]


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## nobody88 (Feb 23, 2009)

wow so nice the setup of your plant tank


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## NyteBlade (Aug 19, 2006)

That's really nice. I was a bit hestitant when I saw your rescape a few pages back, but your new scape looks awesome. I can barely keep Bylxa alive and yours is about to consume the entire tank.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the kind comments. 

Nyteblade: Thanks for the comment. I'm not totally there yet but I'm trying harder to learn to visualize and anticipate how things are going to look when the tank growth matures. I think for me this is something thats coming easier as I do more layouts and get more experience growing different types of plants.

That being said its time for an update. Roybot73's update made me flip my wig so I went and turned on the tank lights for a few pics. I even stole the sweet monolith shot. Muahahaha. Originality be darned.

UG is almost there. I think its time now to hack down the blyxa beast so it can get back in shape for some final shots for this scape and suss out what I'm going to do about the Starogyne sp. purple on the left. Its not really fitting in for me. I did a nice trim last night to clean up some gnarly UG bits and attempted to uncover the hardscape hiding under the Blyxa by trimming some out. 

Beware these images are chunky big. Once again pardon the not-so-stealth heater. It'll come out for shots when I feel like the tank is ready.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

if i ever need some blyxa, i know who to pm - lol.

that is filling in very nicely.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

DUDE! This looks fantastic!!! Your best layout yet, no doubt.
See what happens when you let plants do their own thing? :hihi: Love the top down shot _and_ the Monolith™ shot  

Are there fish in this thing?

You're killing me with kindness, BTW :hihi:

Just noticed your "Sticky Fingers" comment a few posts back - we have a client at work who sends us that action every now & again. Killer BBQ!!!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Haha Yea it is kinda creepy, sorry 'bout that! The wife left me up drinking Coronas by myself and the football game was a blowout. I had to have somethin' to do. 

The tank has:
19 Celestial Pearls - Orange finned
10 Cory pygmaeus
2 Otocinclus

And temporarily 2 Dwarf Powder Blue Gouramis... They are destined for the Riparium but the 3 Clown Plecos (going in the 40 breeder) I grabbed today had a tiny spot of ich so I'm using the rip to treat them since its my only fishless tank atm. 

Everyone had retired to underneath the blyxa when I flipped on the lights. heh. Normally I have to sit in front of the tank for a minute or two before it comes alive with fish. 

I forgot to post a sneak peek of the next project. I loathe my selection of hardscape materials around here but I'm dead set against paying hundreds of dollars to have rocks shipped across the state sight unseen. The only reason its not planted yet is I'm holding out for either finding better stone or finding a better price on stone. Out of what I have this is all I've been able to come up with. I'd be curious to hear thoughts on how this could be made better with the current stone selection. These are the same type I have in this tank. 
This tank will only have Staurogyne sp. (Tropica No. 049G). This is why its fairly flat with gentle slope and a somewhat modest planting area.










I also noticed invertzfactory has botia sids for 10.50! Sweeeet.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

What size tank is this?
I'm with you 100% on not paying big $$$ to have _rocks_ shipped across the country.:icon_roll If Buffalo wasn't under 2 1/2 feet of snow right now, I'd prolly be able to get a package together for you for the cost of shipping, but even that would end up costing a fair amount. All the rocks around here (and there are a LOT of them) are a crazy mix of limestone, chert and flint. Crazy hard, crazy heavy. The stones in my tank contain a fair amount of limestone, but I've yet to notice any issues with them (they were in my 20L for a very long time before this).

I don't like to give "advice" on hardscapes - who the hell am I to tell someone else what their tank should look like? That being said, I think a better arrangement could be pulled together from what you've got here...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its a plain old 10 gallon standard AGA I think. Whichever one petsmart sells with the better silicone job. 

Most of the stuff I have is either badly shaped or is vastly oversized for this tank. Unfortunately I think these are the best working pieces I have. Its been sitting that way a few weeks taunting me as I walk by the tank room. Thats ok though I've been propagating Staurogyne sp . for quite some time now (10 months or so) with this in mind. As per usual I'm in no hurry.


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## seds (Jan 30, 2009)

Pretty cool setup there. The blyxia looks... DYNAMIC! The UG looks WINDSWEPT. I am pretty sure that is UG...

The new setup will be promising indeed. PS: vastly oversized rocks look EPIC. Or Dynamic.


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

this tank is stunning!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the too kind comments everyone.

Just snapped a few late afternoon pics of the tank. I did a massive hack of the Bylxa this weekend so hopefully as it grows in I can get that one good photoshoot for this layout. This one has been a fun one so far and I feel like from planning to execution its worked out to be a pleasing layout for me. 
Ug is a little wild looking at the moment. 










And the fishes were about as it was just after feeding time so I managed to get one semi-decent pic of the CPDs


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

How the hell do you get your UG to grow so well man. It looks hella cool! Great looking tank too man. Nice job.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

speedie thanks man! Not sure what finally triggered the explosive growth but after planting I just left it alone. Probably 1/4 of the initial planting melted down and I replanted those spots with pieces that grew up instead of into the substrate. I have done 2 haircut style trims on the carpet and I think this plant responds well to that.


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

whats your fert schedule like?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its roughly EI

NPK on mon, wed, fridays
micros (csmb, seachem iron) on tues, thursday

40% Water change on saturday or sunday with the alternate day off

I splash with a little excel even in the pressurized tanks at the normal dosing recommendation after water changes. 

As far as measurements I don't really get granular and measure down too much I just follow the rough guides for tank size and adjust a little for plant mass. Thats what makes EI dosing so nice and easy.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

With our little winter storm we have going I'm stuck inside today. When the tank lights cycled on I figured I'd snap a few pics. 

I gave the UG a healthy haircut this past weekend so its nice and level now. Also I don't think I've ever posted a shot of how this tank is situated in the room... along the left wall is the 29 riparium and on the right wall is the 40 breeder. On that left wall is a 7ft stand that will be holding a 120 sooner or later but I need to get under the house and do some bracing. Having a house built in 1900 is cool and all but there are some funky things holding it up.  I hope to get an overall shot of the fishroom when I borrow the HD camera again. 

Expanded view with the next project on the left:









I've been slowly lowering the tank temp to try to get it down in the 70-72 range for the CPDs. They've responded well and started sparring a bit:









And pardon my indecision but I couldn't choose a fts so I'm posting the two that came out best.  With the MH lamp from the Riparium flooding the room with light & the camera set on auto I tend to get random results that look like different color temperatures. 


















'til next time!
James


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Man i love this tank


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks man.


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

What is the plant in the back right corner?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

The back right is Staurogyne 'porto velho'. It tends to grow up more than running over there because of the current fixture. It has dead spots on both sides of the tank. :-/


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## skratikans (May 23, 2008)

wow, looking good! You need to take a pic of your 
CPDs


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its hard to get a good pic of them. They are so tiny/fast in order to get any detail I have to use the macro setting on my cheapo camera which makes it even harder. The one pic I posted in my last update is the best one I've been able to get so far.

Someone on the scape forums mentioned that I should just go pure iwagumi with this and let the UG have the whole tank... I'm strongly considering it since its halfway there already. Might let it grow out for another week or so to get a pic of its current state before I pull everything out and replant.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

You did a great job with your tank. I looks fantastic and requires little maintenance too. roud:


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

tank looks great. all of them do!


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## lrbs (Dec 1, 2009)

WOW.....really Inspiring.....!


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## Clare12345 (Dec 20, 2008)

Dude. The UG looks so beautiful. This site says its a carnivorous plant. Any truth to that?
I want some, but I want fish too.


http://www.tropica.dk/article.asp?id=731&type=news


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

First thanks everyone for the kind comments. Much appreciated. 

Clare12345: Yep its definitely carnivorous but if you've ever seen any up close the "traps" are tiny. I'd be doubtful if it could even capture some of the larger copepods/ostracods but that would be about the limit I'd think. I know I've read in the past folks thinking that UG might pose a threat to newly born shrimp but I'd have to see it myself before I'd believe it. 
You know come to think about it that may be why this plant takes so long to take hold in a newly setup tank. New tank = lack of microorganisms for the plant to feed on. Food for thought?


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## soundtweakers (Oct 12, 2005)

great journal, I actually went through the whole thing, quite a journey there.

awesome scapes, all of them. You made the 20L seem much bigger. Congrats.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Beautiful layout man. There's that dwarf gourami.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks soundtweakers & Hydrophyte. 

As of tomorrow night this thing is morphing into a full blown iwagumi layout as the tank will be reset with only UG. Everything else is in the swap&shop.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That UG looks freaking intense! I love it. I assume you are going to rip it up and spread it around the tank more?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks man! Oh yea for sure. I'm selling off most of it but plan on keeping a section to repopulate the tank. It'll take 4-6 weeks to grow in now that its acclimated to the tank. Sucks though, my back already hurts from doing the 40 this morning, ripping up the 20, and I set up another 10 gallon scape as well. 
Should have known I'd be planting some eleocharis 'belem' for the new tank the day before I have to redo the 20.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

Hey, I've been looking at your journal. Great job!! 

now I kind of want some UG


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its almost a month into the transition now so time for an update. I did the second major hack of the UG last night. Man it looks so good once its grown in but this has to be the most labor intensive ground cover you could ask for. Floating bits, runners growing in every direction, and it looks ratty growing out... yep all those are a big check. 
Its got a lot of growing in to do but I'm patient. 

I really need to transfer the pygmy cories out of this tank over to the riparium. Once it grows in the poor little guys will have no substrate left to chill on. 

Pics? I can haz some.


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## rrrrramos (Jan 24, 2008)

I couldn't deal with UG in a bigger tank, even this size. It was enough of a hassle in my 5g! No doubt it will look great in here though.


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

last time I read you were doing a DIY CO2 with jello....are you still doing that??? or have you purchased a full CO2 setup with PH controller like you mentioned as one of your original options??? amazing growth with whatever CO2 system your using!!! nice man!


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

Very nice tank! Me likey


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Signing in to see your end result . Good start bro.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the comments! 

rrrrramos yea its not a set it and forget it foreground thats for sure. At first every single little runner that grew out of the substrate I'd gently trim and replant... now I just let it grow and get gnarly then go at it like a madman with the scissors. Then I spend 15 minutes fishing bits out with a net. :help:

Nick its got a while to go I know. Its always nice to look back at the images from 3-4 weeks back to catch the growth. Sometimes looking at it every day you kinda miss how much has happened. 

Chris I dropped the DIY setup when the tank moved rooms. When the new stone scape showed up I switched to a 5lb bottle with a used JBJ rig I found for cheap. Never looked back on the PH controller and glad I did. Its entirely not necessary and with my already soft tap water I'd imagine it would be a bundle of hassles to deal with. 
DIY was cheap, easy, and good learning experience but even a cheap pressurized setup is sooo much better. Lets me concentrate my maintenance time on better things than changing mixtures.


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

cool!!! thanks for the quick reply!!! now i have to find a pressurized CO2 setup for my 20long :icon_frow




MrJG said:


> Thanks for the comments!
> 
> Chris I dropped the DIY setup when the tank moved rooms. When the new stone scape showed up I switched to a 5lb bottle with a used JBJ rig I found for cheap. Never looked back on the PH controller and glad I did. Its entirely not necessary and with my already soft tap water I'd imagine it would be a bundle of hassles to deal with.
> DIY was cheap, easy, and good learning experience but even a cheap pressurized setup is sooo much better. Lets me concentrate my maintenance time on better things than changing mixtures.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

chris just keep an eye out. RSS a custom craigslist search, keep an ebay search saved, and watch the swap n' shop. Generally well priced regulators with all the fixin's go fast but I think I paid $50 for the reg. Can't remember how much I paid for the 5lb bottle but it was also a steeply discounted nice aluminum bottle.

If you find one that has an old hydrotest stamp that can be done fairly cheap as well. Check to see if simplexgrinnell has a location near you. Its where I get my tanks filled while I wait and I think they charge $30 or so for re-testing/certifying a tank.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Little update... just chuggin' along. Maybe a few more weeks before it really starts getting good and thick.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Snapped a few quick and dirty pics while I was in the tank room this week. Its untrimmed with wily UG runners going everywhere but I figured I'd update with a progress shot. 
The ends of the tank are going to be the problem now. Going to maybe have to add some extra lighting on the sides to get the carpet going over there. :/


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## Holokai (Jan 10, 2007)

Beautiful tank!


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

looks great


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