# Dutch Style Low Tech, possible?



## sarazorz (Feb 11, 2013)

Hello! I have decided to set up the new 29G and try out Dutch Style. I love the lush look of these tanks, specifically I love how the stem plants are trimmed into giant bushes. I'm wondering if achieving this style is even possible with a Low Tech tank. Well, not exactly low tech- maybe like, "medium" tech. 

My tank will have all the aspects of High Tech minus a CO2 system. I am new to planted tanks but not to fish keeping, and I don't think I'm ready to be messing around with CO2 yet... I'm a wuss what can I say. I'd like to see how things go before I go messing around with something I don't know much about.

Here is what my tank will have
29 gallon
Cascade 700 Canister Filter
Finnex 24 inch Daylight LED - suspending it over the tank
MGOC Dirt with Sand and Gravel cap
Intend on dosing with Excel, maybe Flourish and Iron if I feel like I need to. (Iron for the red plants, I will have lots of them)

Here is a list of plants I am considering
Purple Cabomba
Ambulia
Red Ludwigia
Pennywort
Rotala Indica
Rotala Wallichii
Telanthera Rosefolia 
Pogostemon stellata
Hornwort
Some Red Cryptos
Red Tiger Lotus
Water Sprite
Xmas Moss
Dwarf Hairgrass
Dwarf Baby Tears - maybe


So my tank will have med-high light and quality substrate but no CO2. Is growing giant bushes of stem plants going to be difficult? Are my expectations realistic? 

The lights are due to show up on my porch next week, I'm just trying to get prepared. If you guys tell me I'm crazy, then I guess I'll have to run out and make a DIY CO2 set up before next week, and teach myself how not to screw up CO2. 

Thanks!


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## sdbrewer (May 17, 2012)

If you don't feel ready to mess around with CO2, what you're really saying is that you're not ready to mess around with high lighting. The good news is that DIY CO2 is very simple, but a 29 gallon is going to require a fairly large solution and the added upkeep of DIY CO2 can become tedious in addition to all of your other maintenance requirements. Most of those plants on your list can be sustained in low to medium lighting.


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## seanski21 (Mar 4, 2012)

Of course it can be done, but it takes a long time for the plants to grow in and it is hard achieve the variety of the colors that are included in most Dutch layouts because many the red/orange plants need higher light and C02 to grow at their best.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

A few guesses

Here is a list of plants I am considering
Purple Cabomba Don’t know
Ambulia Yes
Red Ludwigia Don’t know
Pennywort Yes
Rotala Indica No 
Rotala Wallichii No Rotala H’ra will work. 
Telanthera Rosefolia Yes Heteranthera
Pogostemon stellate NO
Hornwort You don’t want this but yes
Some Red Cryptos Yes 
Red Tiger Lotus Don’t know
Water Sprite Don’t know
Xmas Moss Yes
Dwarf Hairgrass Yes 
Dwarf Baby Tears – maybe No

Bacopa will work
Persicaria
Hygrophila


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## sdbrewer (May 17, 2012)

+ 1 on the Hygrophila


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## sarazorz (Feb 11, 2013)

I have no problem with tedious maintenance, I'm just worried about CO2 because I don't know much about it's effects on water chemistry- other than a few bits I've read on here. I suppose I'll just have to stop being a wuss and jump into it if I want to achieve the results I'm hoping for. Heh. 

Guess I'd better get to reading. Thanks


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## mnemenoi (May 28, 2012)

I have a similar tank and have kept some of those plants, though red stems are something that just will not do well. They survive, but lose color. Plant it densely and watch your photoperiod. Add a multitude of a clean up crew (RCS, Amanos, otos, bristlenose, nerites, SAE) and it does work. Dose Excel daily and tweak your photoperiod for need. About the only strong red I keep is a Red Tiger lotus that pops. My lighting is a bit crazy though, very high for a tank without CO2 (3.6-7.2 WPG @ 10,000K).


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## JoeGREEEN (Jun 28, 2011)

I have a low tech 40B with THriving _*Rotala Indica *_that I have. To trim and replant each month and it rarely losses any leaves and still maintains its gorgeous red and green color


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Rotala Indica
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=317
Rotala rotundifolia
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=39


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Dutch aquariums traditionally are only low tech.


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## sarazorz (Feb 11, 2013)

Ah cool  That's nice to hear. I think I'm gonna try some of the suggested plants and not run CO2, see how they do. If I start having severe algae problems or bad growth then I'll try CO2.


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## Razorworm (Jul 24, 2011)

PaulG said:


> Dutch aquariums traditionally are only low tech.


true


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Check out Rivercats tank on AA. She runs high lighting with no co2 injection. However, she does use Glut which is generic (more concentrated) form of Excel (liquid carbon). It's very colorful, like a Dutch scape. 

www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f70/220g-planted-newly-rescaped-231568.html

On a side note, I've been using a Ray 2 (24") on my 26g bow front, co2, and dosing dry ferts since December. I've been getting good growth but plants that usually color up in hues of red with intense light fail to do it in this tank. I believe it has to do with reduced PAR from light to sub, which is about 18". I'm going to try playing with increased phosphates and iron. If I don't start seeing color I'm going to try adding a second Ray 2 fixture. I hope you have better luck than I do.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Old school Dutch tanks in the 1970's and prior were low tech, eg, no CO2 enrichment, took a long time and trial and error to get a decent scape. I have some old bad pictures going back to the 1940's etc.

There was an intense debate about CO2 use in the clubs in NR for quite some time, I think most use CO2 gas today.

A nice lush densely planted garden is a nice look.
But you need healthy growth that does not compete for CO2 between different species. 

Adding CO2 removes that issue which is why we can grow any plant combo with CO2 and the ability for those same species to grow better at lower light than without CO2.

We can easily add non limiting ferts and light to a low tech tank, does not end well with many species. This isolates and means CO2 is the main issue holding growth back.

If you reduce the light, then you have less CO2 demand by the plants, but then you also have slower growth. So trimming and fluffing up a nice thick group of plants takes much longer and you will have issues with other species often times, with one "bully" weedy plant growing quite well.

Slower but nice growth of all your species is often more the goal of what you had in mind to begin with, no? DIY CO2, learn with that, then go with a gas tank system, that are not that complex, but make CO2 changes SLOWLY and never adjust it and then leave for the day, always be around to check to make sure things are okay after adjusting the CO2.

You should not let a lack of information/knowledge about CO2 stop you from your plant tank goal.

FYI, I felt the same way as you did a long time ago. I very begrudgingly learned more about it.


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## stevenjohn21 (May 23, 2012)

plantbrain said:


> FYI, I felt the same way as you did a long time ago. I very begrudgingly learned more about it.


I thought everything that long ago was Black & White :tongue:


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## sarazorz (Feb 11, 2013)

Welp, I have a giant plant order on the way! Should be shipping out soon I hope. Here's the list: 

Ammannia Senegalensis 
Cabomba pulcherrima
Marsilea quadrifolia (4 leaf clover)
Cryptocoryne, Wendtii, Bronze 
Glossostigma 
Hygro Corymbosa Siamensis
Hairgrass, Dwarf 
Heteranthera Stargrass 
Lloydiella, Golden
Ludwigia Peruensis 
Myrio, Red 
Rotala Indica 
Rotala Wallichii 
Telanthera Rosefolia
Tiger Lotus, Red
Water Sprite
Wisteria

Note; not all of that is going in one tank. 

I went to the local pet store and picked up some Green Camboba and a small bunch of Rotala Wallichii just to have something in the tank for now. The Camboba is growing like crazy, so much that I'm having to trim and toss it. The Rotala seems to be filling out and perking up 

Initially I was gonna try the DIY yeast co2 setup but I kinda want something that automatically turns off when the lights go out, so I might be spending some more money. 

Thanks for the comments guys!


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