# Mats under rimless tanks



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

I recently set up a RIMLESS 20 gallon long. Unfortunately, I did not put a yoga mat under this tank. There is water and a colony of shrimps in there right now. After reading some horror stories online about rimless tanks busting at the seams, I'm considering draining most of the water and putting a mat under the tank. HOWEVER, speaking to to other hobbyist some say its really not needed for smaller tanks. The tank is on a stand that is pretty level. Not perfect but only about 1/2 cm off. I have mats under all my other rimless tanks, I just skipped a step this time and I am kind of regretting it.

Should I stick a mat under anyways?


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## duff (Feb 26, 2006)

Just my opinion, but an ounce of prevention.... PITA to now but I would feel a bit more at ease if it were me :0)


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Not sure I'd consider a 20 gallon rimless tank small.. 2 gallons maybe, but not 20. Get some foam under there.


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## vincent201089 (Jan 16, 2012)

In my country, we used to put nothing under rimless tanks. I'm not sure if this will work for earthquake-socal-area.
However, I think you should do it, especially for rimless tank. We are in socal too.
Call few more friends, 20g is not a big deal. Cut it first, drain more than half water in it (a 20g with substrate and 5-7g of water is easy for 2 and a third person for putting the mat in), lift the tank up and put the mat or HD foam under it. So you don't stress out your shrimp. 
Good look with your setup, I really like it. Learned many things from you.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Do what I did, use those cabinet liners you see at Wallyworld. Stack them like 5 layers thick and viola. Instant foam cushion brotha! lol Works for my 120-P.

Actually here's how it looks when I first installed it:


















Mighty spiffy if you ask me!


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

On my 120-P, I used 2 layers of foam board(?) at Office Depot. I think that product is supposed to be for sales presentations or something LOL!


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## Scyry (Dec 16, 2010)

Has anyone used cork? I was looking at some cork pads for house plants pots the other day thinking they would work good for my 12" cube.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

my question is.. why do you do this in the first place?


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

Took me 5 minutes to move my 20 long from my bedroom to my living room. Drain, lift, move. Filling took the longest. It only weighs about 50 pounds with most of the water drained.

Get the AquaPro 20 long? Exact tank I have. Great quality for $110


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> my question is.. why do you do this in the first place?


Concept is to evenly distribute the weight across the entire bottom of the tank due to the floor or stand not being perfectly level and stand sagging over time. Like a mini shock absorber/cushion under the tank. The reported failures on rimless tanks are usually the seams when one side or corner is stress over time compared to the other side.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

samamorgan said:


> Took me 5 minutes to move my 20 long from my bedroom to my living room. Drain, lift, move. Filling took the longest. It only weighs about 50 pounds with most of the water drained.
> 
> Get the AquaPro 20 long? Exact tank I have. Great quality for $110


:hihi: We probably got it from the same spot or person.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Concept is to evenly distribute the weight across the entire bottom of the tank due to the floor or stand not being perfectly level and stand sagging over time. Like a mini shock absorber/cushion under the tank. The reported failures on rimless tanks are usually the seams when one side or corner is stress over time compared to the other side.


 
good to know
thanks!


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

I was watching some Amano scaping videos and even under his big 180p's, I didn't see any mats? I'm I missing something or does he not use them?


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

I have a 20 gallon tank without a mat. Seems fine. I did find out that Mr. Aqua tanks will have mats in a few months for their size tanks.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

antbug said:


> I was watching some Amano scaping videos and even under his big 180p's, I didn't see any mats? I'm I missing something or does he not use them?


He has an army of boys to hand him plants and rocks, surely he has them hand sand his stands to perfect levelness as well. :hihi:


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


> He has an army of boys to hand him plants and rocks, surely he has them hand sand his stands to perfect levelness as well. :hihi:


Ha +1! But honestly, I think having the mat can't hurt. Better safe than sorry, and it won't look bad at all.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

From what I was told Mr. Amano uses mats under his tanks. That is what saved his tanks from the earthquake that hit Japan. I was told the entire building shook but no tanks broke let alone cracked. What saved the tanks from cracking and breaking, the mats. Now there was a lot of water that spilled from the tanks but the tanks themselves were alright.

Dan


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

dantra said:


> From what I was told Mr. Amano uses mats under his tanks. That is what saved his tanks from the earthquake that hit Japan. I was told the entire building shook but no tanks broke let alone cracked. What saved the tanks from cracking and breaking, the mats. Now there was a lot of water that spilled from the tanks but the tanks themselves were alright.
> 
> Dan


wow
and he has some serious tanks that could break spewing thousands of gallons of water.. i'd hate to clean that mess up


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

So exactly how does a thin layer of elastic rubber. Or whatever save a tank from an earthquake magnitude of like 7 was it?


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> So exactly how does a thin layer of elastic rubber. Or whatever save a tank from an earthquake magnitude of like 7 was it?


When you ask this question, you also question why you don't get a headache when you walk for more than 15 feet. It's called shock absorption.


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## chiefroastbeef (Feb 14, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> So exactly how does a thin layer of elastic rubber. Or whatever save a tank from an earthquake magnitude of like 7 was it?


I don't think his showroom was near the epicenter of the earthquake. Though I'd be worried if the tanks had gone through that stress.

Here is a map of where the epicenter is, and Niigata is where ADA is headquartered, there is a good 250 miles between the two points:









I have a foam mat under my 17G 60-P as well, just a peace of mind. 

It wouldn't be hard to put the mat under your tank now, just drain most of the water, have someone (or you) lift it up, someone else slid the mat underneath, put the tank back down, cut the mat following the tank edge.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

samamorgan said:


> When you ask this question, you also question why you don't get a headache when you walk for more than 15 feet. It's called shock absorption.


Jeez. Way to come on a little strong. Seeing that you know all about shock absorption, could you explain to me how a mat maybe 2-3mm in thickness can prevent a glass filled box with a few hundred pounds of water from having even the slightest crack?


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

Oh wasnt meaning to come on strong, sorry if it seemed that way. That's the problem with non verbal communication, too much is lost. It prevents the glass from cracking because it evenly distributes the downward pressure of the aquarium and it's contents onto the stand, instead of having pressure points. Imagine those matress commercials that show pressure points on the back, it's quite a bit like that. Now when you have localized pressure points plus harmonic motion like an earthquake or even a person walking by without a care (fairly unlikely), the glass can break. That little bit of foam distributes the shock of harmonic energy throughout the bottom of the tank, instead of to specific pressure points creaded by surface imperfections in both the aquarium glass and the stand top.

I mentioned the walking thing because it's the same principle, though walking is much larger scale because there are quite a number of shock absorbtion systems built into our body, incluting the arch of your foot, bent knees, discs in your back, your glutes, calf muscles, to name a few. But the brain and optic nerve are quite a lot more sensitive than some aquarium glass  This came to mind because i remember a guy who had several vertebra in his back fused and started having problems with headaches, and noticed pronounced vibration in his vision when he stepped. That would suck!


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Fantastic explanation. Thanks so much. Looks like foam is very good stuff.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Easy there sparky, I'm just the messenger. According to what I was told the building shook, swayed, moved when it should have been stationary. Secondly, I was also told that Mr. Amano uses some sort of cork board but it's not exactly cork it is made of a wood found in Japan that absorbed the shock preventing the tanks from cracking, similar to the mats but firmer and thicker.

Now do the mats relieve stress from the tank, of course it does. It also serves as a buffer if you will between the vibrating equipment like filters and such from transferring to the tank. It's like a sound dampening mat. It absorbs sound, vibrations from getting to the tank and relieves pressure points as well.

Have you ever worked with Dynomat or other sound dampening systems before? If you have same principle.

Dan


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

dantra said:


> From what I was told Mr. Amano uses mats under his tanks. That is what saved his tanks from the earthquake that hit Japan. I was told the entire building shook but no tanks broke let alone cracked. What saved the tanks from cracking and breaking, the mats. Now there was a lot of water that spilled from the tanks but the tanks themselves were alright.


The most important thing that saved the tanks from breaking was the fact that the tanks were properly installed so as not to crash to the floor in case of an earthquake. The biggest concern one should have about possible earthquakes is that the typical aquarium on a typical stand is a system with a high center of gravity. Such setup, unless properly secured, will tip over even at significantly smaller earthquake than the one that hit Japan. In other words the whole thing will just tip over and crash to the floor. No mat will ever make any difference in such situation.

Of course, there's no way to absolutely prevent this from happening in a sufficiently strong earthquake. However, once the reasonable measures have been taken to ensure the vertical stability of the tank/stand combination, one can start thinking about mats. How important the mat itself is in such situation will depend on many factors.

I'd say that the main purpose of the mat is the prevention/reduction of continuous everyday static stresses on tank structure from surface imperfections, not protection against earthquakes.


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## Scyry (Dec 16, 2010)

Has anyone tried a cork sheet? It is pretty much water proof, a little spongy and thin.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

AndreyT said:


> The most important thing that saved the tanks from breaking was the fact that the fact that the tanks were properly installed so as not to crash to the floor in case of an earthquake. The biggest concern one should have about possible earthquakes is that the typical aquarium on a typical stand is a system with a high center of gravity. Such setup, unless properly secured, will tip over even at significantly smaller earthquake than the one that hit Japan. In other words the whole thing will just tip over and crash to the floor. No mat will ever make any difference in such situation.
> 
> Of course, there's no way to absolutely prevent this from happening in a sufficiently strong earthquake. However, once the reasonable measures have been taken to ensure the vertical stability of the tank/stand combination, one can start thinking about mats. How important the mat itself is in such situation will depend on may factors.
> 
> I'd say that the main purpose of the mat is the prevention/reduction of continuous everyday static stresses on tank structure from surface imperfections, not protection against earthquakes.


Agreed. As said above, "Now do the mats relieve stress from the tank, of course it does. It also serves as a buffer if you will between the vibrating equipment like filters and such from transferring to the tank. It's like a sound dampening mat. It absorbs sound, vibrations from getting to the tank and relieves pressure points as well".

Also the stand on which it sits upon makes a world of difference. One doesn't need an earthquake or vibrations to bring a tank crashing down that's sitting on a crappy stand.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I think Hollywood has tricked many of us when it comes to earthquakes.. If you aren't at the center, you basically get a bunch of rocking. A tank in decent condition can take some uneven pressure like that for short durations no problem. Now the issue is when a tank isn't level and is subjected to continued stress over the course of months and years. That's when you get failures.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Scyry said:


> Has anyone tried a cork sheet? It is pretty much water proof, a little spongy and thin.


We are using these various mats are a gasket material so almost all traditional gasket materials will work.

Currently, I'm using a yoga mat, the black foam used under floating laminate flooring, and a pc of top end hypo-alergenic carpet pad under glass & acrylic tanks.

Shock absorption has some value, but the leveling effect IMHO is much more important. When I do a 50% W/C I hear the load being taken off the stand by the creaking of the plywood top my 40 gl sits on. Being an Acrylic it will be more forgiving flex then the joints on a glass tank will be.


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

Scyry said:


> Has anyone tried a cork sheet? It is pretty much water proof, a little spongy and thin.


That's exactly what I use all the time. And one can get cork sheet of different thickness. Or put several layers on top of each other, if one would want to achieve greater thickness.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


> I think Hollywood has tricked many of us when it comes to earthquakes.. If you aren't at the center, you basically get a bunch of rocking. A tank in decent condition can take some uneven pressure like that for short durations no problem. Now the issue is when a tank isn't level and is subjected to continued stress over the course of months and years. That's when you get failures.


A bunch of rocking? Shook me right off my bed when we had one hit here a good 10 years ago, and i was nowhere near the center. Also collapsed some stuff around the sound. When a quake hits it's like dropping a pebble in a lake, big ripple effect.
Edit: Forgot you all arent from this area. The sound = puget sound.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I put a mat under my tank, rimless or not (I have only had one rimless tank). I just think is a good idea, especially with a rimless tank. As much as starting over is a pain, it will be less painful than having to deal with a leak later on.


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## jdcook72 (Aug 18, 2011)

When people say they put a mat under the tank to account for the base not being perfectly level, do they really mean flat? The two are different and I just wanted to be sure. I’m planning to set up a tank on a countertop that should be level but may not be exactly. I was going to use a mat to account for irregularities but if being level is the true issue, I would also have to use a sheet of something like plywood that I could shim as necessary.
Also, does a rimless tank need full support on the bottom or can it just be edge supported like on a rimmed tank? I was going make a small stand for a 12 gallon long and was wondering if it needed a “top”.

Thanks


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

I am going to say you probably want more than edge support ( like an acrylic tank). solid top would be fine. 

I was under the impression that it is a good preventative measure, catastrophic failure or cost of a mat? Yeah, I am going with a mat.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah, I think the words get a little confusing and are interchanged for each other. Typically, you want the mat to prevent stress points/compensate for irregularities on the surface.

You also want a level surface, but the mat won't do much for that. using a piece of plywood with shims is probably the best/easiest solution for a countertop or some other fixed object that you can't directly level/shim.


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## laqu (Oct 17, 2012)

and i can just use a cut up yoga mat?


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