# Miracle Grow Organic Competitor



## Lornek8 (Jul 3, 2013)

All potting soils are essentially the same but each should list what's in the ingredients. The big difference willl be where they get it and what they use for their compost/mulch/forest loam ingredient. The MGOPM is OMRI listed, I don't believe the Vigoro one is. OMRI listing is like organic certification for a product.

It's kinda funny coming from a gardening/planting background but in general Miracle Grow isn't considered to be one of the higher end product lines around but for fish tanks it seems to be the one to use.


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## I3raven (Jan 30, 2013)

Lornek8 said:


> All potting soils are essentially the same but each should list what's in the ingredients. The big difference willl be where they get it and what they use for their compost/mulch/forest loam ingredient. The MGOPM is OMRI listed, I don't believe the Vigoro one is. OMRI listing is like organic certification for a product.
> 
> It's kinda funny coming from a gardening/planting background but in general Miracle Grow isn't considered to be one of the higher end product lines around but for fish tanks it seems to be the one to use.


Probably because it doesn't contain man-made fertilizers


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## Lornek8 (Jul 3, 2013)

I3raven said:


> Probably because it doesn't contain man-made fertilizers


Are you talking about the Miracle Grow? Any organic potting soil doesn't use man-made fertilizers.
The Miracle Grow products are simply the main stream products, those found at the local Big Box store. There are more specialized organic potting soils that are considered superior to the Miracle Grow one, those you'll have to go look at nurseries or hydroponic type stores or catalogs for. They are still organic but simply use higher quality ingredients. Maybe its because the Miracle Grow is cheaper? Readily available? Good enough?


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

With that said, perhaps Vigoro is worth a shot then. Its a couple bucks cheaper and its 1.5cu ft versus MG's 1.24. I know you get what you pay for which is why I did purchase and will continue to purchase MG for the actual tank setups. If Vigoro doesn't perform, I can ditch it easily because it won't be capped and its for a grow out only. Or better yet I can use portions of it and put it under the MG for a jump start in cycling.


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## PlantedFishTank (Aug 21, 2013)

I just bought some Vigoro today... I will keep you updated on how it works. I can't really compare to MG though, since this is my first time.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Lornek8 said:


> The MGOPM is OMRI listed, I don't believe the Vigoro one is. OMRI listing is like organic certification for a product.
> 
> It's kinda funny coming from a gardening/planting background but in general Miracle Grow isn't considered to be one of the higher end product lines around but for fish tanks it seems to be the one to use.


MGOCPM hasn't provided any unpleasant surprises in 5 years of using it. Just posted this in reply within the last few days.

MGOCPM works (imo) for two reasons. 
1st, Relatively low nutrient levels overall (bag listed as 0.10-0.05-0.05). The poultry litter is only added in a small portion so I think plants quickly burn through it. 
2nd, Submerged decay (mineralization) happens at a slower rate overall mainly based on reducing the oxygen available for the bacteria colony. The more rooted plants the more demand for nutrients and the roots supply more oxygen. The more oxygen, the larger the bacteria colony so something of a balanced demand/supply keeping the available excess to a minimum. Limited water circulation and rooted plants is the only path oxygen has to get into the substrate.

Higher end and more popular planting media might provide too much of a good thing. 
(just my rambling thoughts)


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

PlantedFishTank said:


> I just bought some Vigoro today... I will keep you updated on how it works. I can't really compare to MG though, since this is my first time.


I just setup a couple of tanks for testing both last night with dwarf hairgrass so I am documenting it as well.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=415914


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

I couldn't find anything official, but apparently the Vigoro is 0.10-0.05-0.05 too. Granted, "potting soil" could mean close to anything, even "organic". Interested in seeing if there are any differences.

Slightly off topic, I worked at a local garden center that does not carry any MG or any other competitor's soil/fertilizer products. Apparently the reason is that from a purchasing standpoint, the store gives a certain price that they would like to sell the bag for and the supplier then can choose the ingredients based off of the price. So while a small store may want a higher end soil and is therefore going to sell at a higher price, bigger stores more concerned with pushing product out the door (ie. Big Box stores) will choose the cheapest price because it sells, but then end up with crummier mixes. They then sell more because the customer will look at the price and not be aware of what differs otherwise.

I don't know how valid this is, or whether it was what we were told in order to justify selling a slightly more expensive soil/fertilizer with our own brand name on it. But it wouldn't surprise me if that's the truth. Granted, MGOCPM hasn't steered me wrong yet.


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## Lornek8 (Jul 3, 2013)

jpappy789 said:


> I couldn't find anything official, but apparently the Vigoro is 0.10-0.05-0.05 too. Granted, "potting soil" could mean close to anything, even "organic". Interested in seeing if there are any differences.
> 
> Slightly off topic, I worked at a local garden center that does not carry any MG or any other competitor's soil/fertilizer products. Apparently the reason is that from a purchasing standpoint, the store gives a certain price that they would like to sell the bag for and the supplier then can choose the ingredients based off of the price. So while a small store may want a higher end soil and is therefore going to sell at a higher price, bigger stores more concerned with pushing product out the door (ie. Big Box stores) will choose the cheapest price because it sells, but then end up with crummier mixes. They then sell more because the customer will look at the price and not be aware of what differs otherwise.
> 
> I don't know how valid this is, or whether it was what we were told in order to justify selling a slightly more expensive soil/fertilizer with our own brand name on it. But it wouldn't surprise me if that's the truth. Granted, MGOCPM hasn't steered me wrong yet.


 
I think this is true to a point. There is a local supplier of landscaping products here from which you can buy bulk "soils". The prices vary for each depending on what you want in your mix. You can choose the % of mix components and if you want fertilizer added or not. I don't think this is particulary true for the pre-packaged stuff though as it'd be too costly in the long run. Brands like Vigoro could be as you've mentioned though as I think it's only a Home Depot brand. There are regional differences in some mixes too, look at the label on the bag, it usually lists the ingredients and in some areas (California for example) particular ingredients are substituted, possibly due to local laws/concerns, and these are noted on the bag.

If the soil mix is OMRI organic labelled, chances are it'll work pretty well as there are controls over what can be "organic" labelled. As a word of warning, there have been reports of soil mixes being contaminated with herbicides from its mulch/compost component if items such as commercial/landscaping trimmings were utilized that had previsouly been exposed to herbicides.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Lornek8 said:


> I think this is true to a point. There is a local supplier of landscaping products here from which you can buy bulk "soils". The prices vary for each depending on what you want in your mix. You can choose the % of mix components and if you want fertilizer added or not. I don't think this is particulary true for the pre-packaged stuff though as it'd be too costly in the long run. Brands like Vigoro could be as you've mentioned though as I think it's only a Home Depot brand. There are regional differences in some mixes too, look at the label on the bag, it usually lists the ingredients and in some areas (California for example) particular ingredients are substituted, possibly due to local laws/concerns, and these are noted on the bag.
> 
> If the soil mix is OMRI organic labelled, chances are it'll work pretty well as there are controls over what can be "organic" labelled. As a word of warning, there have been reports of soil mixes being contaminated with herbicides from its mulch/compost component if items such as commercial/landscaping trimmings were utilized that had previsouly been exposed to herbicides.


You are correct. Vigoro is a HD only product. I am an ex HD employee and for every name brand garden product, Vigoro has a cheaper option. The quality is lower but depending on the product, you can sometimes get away with it. And yes the ingredients differ by region. I should have taken a pic of the back side by side instead of the front that I have in my DSM MG vs Vigoro thread.


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## BHolmes (Aug 23, 2012)

> It's kinda funny coming from a gardening/planting background but in general Miracle Grow isn't considered to be one of the higher end product lines around but for fish tanks it seems to be the one to use.


What would be a higher end product to MG that could be used as a substrate? MG is cheap in price and that's what sold me on my substrate for my 90


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Slight variation on the theme:
HD has several packages of soil conditioner. A product that is to be blended with the garden soil in large enough quantities to affect the texture of the soil. Basically these are things like redwood sawdust with just enough nitrogen added to offset the amount the decomposer organisms would take from the soil. 

When I worked at a nursery they sold a few products like this, and told you what they were, and why one was better for certain purposes. The name for these products is Soil Amendment. Something added to the soil to improve it, but not a fertilizer. 

Anyway, there were 3 bags, all from the same supplier (Kelloggs) and they looked almost the same. Same style of text, same layout... 
Different colors. 
Different names. 
Turn the bags over to read the ingredients. 
...
...
...
...
...
SAME ingredients in all 3 products. 

All three are labeled "Garden Soil". 
None of them have any soil, sand or similar material. All three are forest byproducts (ie sawdust), bat guano, poultry litter and similar things. 

but one is for 'Flowers and Vegetables'
another is for 'Trees and Shrubs'
and I forget the third. 

All a marketing gimmick. 

You really gotta read ALL the label, ALL the fine print, and research any part you do not understand.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

BHolmes said:


> What would be a higher end product to MG that could be used as a substrate? MG is cheap in price and that's what sold me on my substrate for my 90


Having it as the supporting base material growing a 55g full crypt garden for over 4 years is what sold me on it. 
If it's not broken why fix it LOL

Do a little reading on worm castings as an option or additive.


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

wkndracer said:


> Having it as the supporting base material growing a 55g full crypt garden for over 4 years is what sold me on it.
> If it's not broken why fix it LOL
> 
> Do a little reading on worm castings as an option or additive.


Do any stores around you sell Fox Farm brands?

I was just thinking about it when you mentioned higher end organic products. This is supposedly really high end (the price reflects it) but I would be worried it's a bit too rich.


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## Lornek8 (Jul 3, 2013)

Fox farms, roots organic, espoma, black gold, ecoscraps, sunshine, pro-mix are all considered better quality. I'm not sure they are appropriate or not though. As someone mentioned earlier they all have more components to them, some which may not be appropriate. A big one is perlite. While basically it's inert, it typically floats which could be a real pain in an aquarium. I'd also just consider mixing my own mix with a high quality mulch/compost and peat moss.


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## CoffeeLove (Oct 31, 2012)

jpappy789 said:


> Do any stores around you sell Fox Farm brands?
> 
> I was just thinking about it when you mentioned higher end organic products. This is supposedly really high end (the price reflects it) but I would be worried it's a bit too rich.


Too rich for what? Fox Farms is a great medium. Many use it to grow the single greatest plant known to man kind...

---


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

CoffeeLove said:


> Too rich for what? Fox Farms is a great medium. Many use it to grow the single greatest plant known to man kind...
> 
> ---


Too rich as in it's _too_ heavy in nutrients for a dirted aquarium setup. The MGOCPM is only 0.10-0.05-0.05 and that works, but I'm having a hard time finding out what the Fox Farm brands are...presumably because it's going to change dramatically once all the organics start breaking down. I'd consider things like bat guano, earthworm castings, humus, and fish/crab meal (depending on the mix) to have more nutrients locked up than the sphagnum, bark, and litter we see in MGOCPM. Was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

jpappy789 check out dogfish's posts and in point his ToxicTen
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154884&highlight=

Between Dog, Cable and myself we've made a mess or three :biggrin:


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

Thanks for the link! Always interested in seeing different "dirted" methods. At this point, I can't imagine not doing some sort of variant ever again.


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## BHolmes (Aug 23, 2012)

> Having it as the supporting base material growing a 55g full crypt garden for over 4 years is what sold me on it.
> If it's not broken why fix it LOL
> 
> Do a little reading on worm castings as an option or additive.


I definitely should have added more to that post. Seeing everyones dirted tanks and how successful they were was a huge inspiration. In reference to AS, it doesn't make that much sense to spend that much $$ on dirt (IMO). I'm now inspired to look into my own composting mixes especially after reading through that link and the info in this thread


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