# Fishneedit vs. ADA MH



## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

Just in case anyone was wondering....

The answer is "yes", you can purchase a 150w fishneedit MH and then just switch out the bulb for an ADA, NA-Lamp NAG. It works brilliantly, and with its green undertones to bring out the plants, the light looks terrific. For someone not wanting to spend $500 on an ADA, this looks like a pretty ok option.


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## doubleott05 (Mar 16, 2010)

i have a thread on APC reguarding this. 

are you saying that the fishneedit bulbs are nearly identical to the ADA bulbs?


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## FlSHRFun (Jun 26, 2010)

Yup, pretty much.
I've done this myself with great results.
You can check out my journal in my signature.


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## MARIMOBALL (Mar 18, 2007)

I have both ADA Solar and fishneedit and they both have the same light output and the FNI 8K bulb is very close to ADA. I have to agree.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

MARIMOBALL said:


> I have both ADA Solar and fishneedit and they both have the same light output and the FNI 8K bulb is very close to ADA. I have to agree.


Did you check the output with a PAR meter?

Tom Barr found the PAR readings on the Aqua Forest tanks using the ADA Solar to be lower than the PAR readings he got with a different MH fixture but the same ADA bulb. Based on his testing the ADA Solar is actually a fairly low-light fixture.


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## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

doubleott05 said:


> i have a thread on APC reguarding this.
> 
> are you saying that the fishneedit bulbs are nearly identical to the ADA bulbs?


I like the quality and temperature of the light that comes from the ADA bulbs with NAG. If you have a primarily green scape then it does seem to make it all _pop _a bit more. 

I just switched out the $15 fishneedit bulb for an ADA one. Seems frivolous to spend $300 more on the ADA Solar when you can an almost identical result this way.


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## doubleott05 (Mar 16, 2010)

what does NAG stand for anyway?

or NA on the ADA bulbs


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

NAG stands for "Nature Aquarium Green"

NA: Nature Aquarium

Basically NAG indicates that the MH bulb is the green type for planted and NA indicates that it is the normal MH bulb for planted.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

captain_bu said:


> Did you check the output with a PAR meter?
> 
> Tom Barr found the PAR readings on the Aqua Forest tanks using the ADA Solar to be lower than the PAR readings he got with a different MH fixture but the same ADA bulb. Based on his testing the ADA Solar is actually a fairly low-light fixture.


That's odd - not saying that Tom Barr's findings were incorrect - but the last time we had our PAR checked (In a cross comparison vs. the new LED fixtures we have) it warranted the light as pretty decently high-light. (The bulb in the Solar I) - but we had more or less a brand new bulb - maybe that tank in AFA had an old bulb in it, who knows.

Plus, well, the results are pretty stacked for the Solar I being a high-light fixture, in terms of what we've seen from just using the lights. However - the difference between MH and CF bulbs is that MH have a tendency to cast shadows, so the PAR value underneath the light's spread, and say the PAR value under a thicket of Trident Fern is vastly different - where as the light from a CF bulb will kind of 'wrap/warp' around shadow causing objects and don't cast shadows nearly as pronounced.


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## doubleott05 (Mar 16, 2010)

well im gonna have to buy me a fishneedit MH bulb and give it a try for $20 bucks a pop its worth a try. beats paying $70+ for ADA . ADA is nice but it is way to expensive.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

Francis Xavier said:


> maybe that tank in AFA had an old bulb in it, who knows.
> 
> Plus, well, the results are pretty stacked for the Solar I being a high-light fixture, in terms of what we've seen from just using the lights.


Here is the link to the thread where Tom discusses this...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/75776-simple-light-test-show-high-light.html

He took PAR readings on almost all of the Aqua Forest tanks. 

Growth results will not tell you the amount of light a fixture is emitting but testing with a PAR meter will. Tom felt that the success of the AFA tanks is in part because the fixtures actually offer fairly moderate light levels and led to him become a proponent of keeping light lower for better results due to increased ease of providing adequate CO2. 

A lot of plants that people think need high light to grow well do not need huge amounts of light they need good CO2. Less light makes it easier to provide non-limiting levels of CO2.

Ask him about his findings I am sure he is willing to discuss them.


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## Zareth (Dec 13, 2010)

Does a PAR meter measure the light that's usable by plants only? 
If so it would definitely get a lower reading from a NAG bulb. 
I don't know why a nature aquarium green bulb is recommended for plants - green is useless(practically) to plants, so the reason must be purely for looks. 
I'm basing this off someone saying that the NAG bulb cast a green tinge. 
And of course, what I just said also assumes for plants you want the highest light possible, which isn't true.
If the NAG bulb has less light usable to plants while still illuminating the tank brilliantly that might actually be a good thing for growth and maintenance.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

Just took par readings:

Under a Solar I the Par rested easy at 155-160
Under a Grand Solar II the Par rested easy at 170-175
Under a Solar Mini M - 55-60

These measurements were taken under water, at the lowest point of the substrate under the light in the ADG display tanks - 60cm, 180cm and Mini-M.

Like I said - it's quite possible the lights that the other PAR readings were taken under were older bulbs.


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## Zareth (Dec 13, 2010)

In the link to Barrs findings he mentions that everywhere he goes he uses his PAR meter to discover that someone has low light. Perhaps his par meter has a Plant Brain with a bit too much algae growing in it. 
Never trust an instrument that can only be measured against its self.
For someone to take readings to heart you must really be either somehow positive your meter is correctly calibrated or have 2 meters of different brands and take readings with both probes on both meters. 
The same goes for the one Frank just used, it could be measuring incorrectly high. 
And there is another sticky on here where someone tests spiral bulbs and gets pretty high PAR ratings, those could be incorrect, or Barr's readings could be incorrect. I don't know how a spiral bulb in a simple clamp lamp could have higher PAR than a MH fixture. 
At any rate there is a lot of discrepancy with peoples PAR ratings all over the web. 
Be it exaggeration or hardware discrepancy or whatever.
And also - who the heck got to pick what was high light and what was medium and what was low? Shouldn't that really depend on the plant?


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

Francis Xavier said:


> Just took par readings:
> 
> Under a Solar I the Par rested easy at 155-160
> Under a Grand Solar II the Par rested easy at 170-175
> ...


How high were the fixtures above the tanks?

If you take a look at the pictures in the 4th or 5th post in Tom's thread (which has recently been conveniently bumped) you will see that the MHs on the main display tank at AF are 12" above the tank probably over 30" above the substrate. The tank ranked #20 in the ADA contest. The point was that the lighting is not high yet the results are still excellent.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

We keep our fixtures at 12" off the surface - the additional distance in a 60-P to the substrate line from the rim of the tank is about another 12-13 inches, so the total distance is more or less 24-25 inches.

The 180 is even deeper - the light goes from 12" above the aquarium to about 2.5x the distance of the 60-P from Rim to substrate.

For the record - not arguing with the claim for what the ideal PAR value is needed to grow plants, just speculating that we have an entirely different reading. As for what I know - I just know the ADA lights/bulbs work without fail.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

There are so many variables here, it makes my mind spin!

I really wish I could get my hands on a proper par meter to measure what my T5HO fixture puts out with new bulbs v 6 months down the road. I dont trust manufacturer recommendations yet I replace my bulbs every 12-18 month, paranoid, maybe.


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