# Quag's 45g Long + 40b Breeder



## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Hey planted tankers, I’ve been sitting idle for the better part of 2 years without a main display tank. I’ve only being running small nano tanks to keep a few things alive while I waited. Life had gotten really busy rebuilding a 150 year old home, moving in, getting settled, changing jobs and gathering up everything I wanted to set up another tank. Luckily for me, my old man held on to a 45 gallon tank + stand and gave it to me for free. I had enough filter and lighting supplies sitting in my basement to get me started, and I figured I could use this tank as an excuse to gather up the rest of the equipment I want to run a larger 4’ tank ~100 gallons or so in the future.

Feel free to watch the video at the end of this post, there's a few time lapses of me setting it up. I’ll try to keep consistent uploads to that YouTube channel following along with this tank.

45 gallon standard tank with black trim. 48”x12”x18” *(44 gallons total water volume*, measured upon initial setup).
DIY stand made from Melamine and 2x4’s glued / screwed – skinned with sealed + painted pine.

*Filtration / Inline Equipment:*
2 x Eheim 2217 (mechanical filtration only).
1 x Eheim 2215 (mechanical filtration only).
1 x 22” Griggs style reactor with nothing inside.
1 x Hydor 200W inline heater (only if I need it, my house sits in the high 60’s).

*Lighting:*
1 x 48” Aquatic Life T5-HO 2 x 54W with 2 x ZooMed FloraSun bulbs.
1 x 48” Fluval Fresh and Plant 2.0.
1 x 36” Aquatic Life 15W 50% 10,000K 50% Actinic.

*CO2:*
1 x American Marine Pinpoint CO2 regulator with bubble counter and solenoid.
1 x 10lb CO2 tank.
1 x (Dwyer Flow Meter to come eventually).
1 x pH pen.
1 x Drop Checker with 4dkH solution.

*Smart Tech:*
1 x Marine Magic auto doser with 3 dosing pumps.
1 x Kasa smart power strip (3 outlet version).

*Substrate: *
27L ADA Amazonia V2, gentle slope towards back.
ADA Bacter 100.
Sprinkle of Osmocote Plus and 10-50-0+S & Zn.

*Water:*
100% RO remineralized with CaSO4 and MgSO4.

*Fertilizers:*
KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, Flourish Iron, Burr’s Micro package with DTPA 11% Fe, Osmocote Plus and my personal collection of various granular fertilizers.

*Water changes:*
68% weekly.

*Plants:*
TBD.

*Inverts:*
Tangerine Tiger Shrimp.
Blue Velvet Shrimp.
Amano Shrimp.

*Fish:*
Oto cats.
Hillstream Loach.
Chili Rasbora.
Celestial Pearl Danio.
Pseudomugil luminatus or Pseudomugil paskai (depending on availability).
Pygmy Corydoras.

*Hardscape:*
None.

*Theme:*
No theme – possibly “Dutch Inspired” but by no means am I following any guidelines or rules to a particular tank theme.


Let’s start with the hardware:




















Lighting (for now):











Time to refurbish the old stand:




















Much better:




















Substrate going in:



















Prepping plants:




















Anubias nana ‘Petite’ – using suction cups as anchors:











Marked exactly 18.9L on this jug with tape, so I know exactly how much water I’m putting into the tank with each jug. I also have tape on the rear, least visible corner of the tank with 18.9L increments:










Stem plants in:










Some of the mid / foreground plants in:










Final plants in (for now) and all the lights on:











For now, the filters are stuffed with a bunch of fine filter floss to help clear up the dusts. A lot of the dust in those photo’s are from the CaSO4 and MgSO4 I dumped in just prior to taking the pictures. One Eheim 2217 is rattling quite bad, so I’m going to have to try and lube / replace the internals. I had 1 double tap valve leak on me, I had 1 spare, so it wasn’t too bad.

Initial tank parameters:

CO2: on 2.5 hours before lights.
Lights: 5 our photo period, no ramp up / ramp down, Fluval LED will be at 50% power.

No NO3 or Micro dosing.
No KH boosting.
25ppm Ca
12.5ppm Mg
25ppm K
10ppm PO4 (I expect this to be taken up the substrate rather quickly)

Next steps:

Dial in my auto doser for daily micro dosing – going to look through some tank journals on here using active substrates and come up with some values to start off with.

Dial in a lime green Drop Checker.

I have a 54W Sunblater T5-HO in shipping, I may or may not run it, space is limited atop a 12” tank, those LED bulbs look promising and should save me space.

Start large water changes every other day (68% by my math’s).

Watch PO4 levels / dose more if the substrate is eating it up.

Build a front door panel for the stand.

Build a canopy to house lighting (possibly, as the Fluval LED gets HOT and would need a fan).

Get my hands on a 29 gallon or so quarantine tank.

Assess my shrimp inventory in my 10 gallon tank and begin taking it down.


Initial Setup:


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Very cool. I'm excited to see how this turns out. I'll be following!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Now THAT'S the way you do it! Great opening post showing all the details on the setup.

And the video was particularly entertaining. You captured the frenzy of putting a tank together quite well.

Now here is the funny part. When we read a persons post for years, we get a mental image in our head of that person. Kind of like with radio personalities you haven't seen a picture. So it's always interesting when you actually get to see someone.

So no offense but my mental image of you was more like the Professor in Gilligan's Island!!

I am expecting great things from this set up and am looking forward to following along. Now if can just figure out how to subscribe or follow or whatever we are doing these days.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Now if can just figure out how to subscribe or follow or whatever we are doing these days.


It took me forever too =)


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> And the video was particularly entertaining. You captured the frenzy of putting a tank together quite well.


What it didn't catch was the overflows from filling 18.9L jugs, leaking filter connections, wet socks, stubbed toes, sore shoulders, plant scraps EVERYWHERE and a few rum's drank in attempt to calm things down  (Actually, at about the 5 minute mark you can catch me having "diet coke" if you look hard enough. 



Greggz said:


> Now here is the funny part. When we read a persons post for years, we get a mental image in our head of that person. Kind of like with radio personalities you haven't seen a picture. So it's always interesting when you actually get to see someone.
> 
> So no offense but my mental image of you was more like the Professor in Gilligan's Island!!


Now this made me laugh! For one, it shows my age because I had to look up what Gilligan's Island actually was, and for two, because my Dad looks pretty similar to the Professor, and I look pretty similar to my Dad so.... I guess you aren't wrong???

I bet a lot of people's idea of what I might look like could surprise them, I'll get better at filming and post more videos trying to capture what it's like running a larger planted tank, and the MESS that comes with it. My office was trashed after setting up this tank last night!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Took apart the loud filter, lubed the impeller parts, it quieted it down a little, but not enough, so I ordered a new impeller, shaft and bushings. 

Here is a pic 24 after setup, water is fairly clear.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Quagulator said:


> What it didn't catch was the overflows from filling 18.9L jugs, leaking filter connections, wet socks, stubbed toes, sore shoulders, plant scraps EVERYWHERE and a few rum's drank in attempt to calm things down  (Actually, at about the 5 minute mark you can catch me having "diet coke" if you look hard enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great initial group of posts. Really had to chuckle on Gregg's Gilligan's Island comment (and yes, I used to watch it alot). But, what Gregg said is so true - you develop a picture in your mind what various people look like. Even has happened where you were thinking one sex and it turns out you were very wrong. 

Wish some of us had better video skills (me in particular) as doing trimming / maintenance / water change on 3 tanks in 1 day can be a little crazy - would make for some interesting videos and many of us to get to know each other a bit more. 

Look forward to continued progress on your tank.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Little bit more math, and lots of head scratching. I wrongly assumed this was a 55 gallon tank, turns out it is a 45 gallon long - That's the second time in a row I took on a used tank that was sold / given to me with the wrong information. 

48" x 12" x 18" = 44.88 gallons or a 45 gallon standard per Google. 

That would explain the 44 gallons of actual water volume I measured out. Now back to performing the first water change. 

Tested PO4 24 hours after dosing 10ppm and it's around 1ppm, so I'll dose another 10ppm today and test again. (expired test kit - new one is in shipping).


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Good to see this up and running Quag, and glad to see the hybrid of T5HO and LED still going strong with you. Excited to see where you take this from here. Definitely can see a lot of thought and preparation went into getting to this point!


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Looks like the beginnings of what will be a beautiful tank! Following along...

(I will also admit that I enjoyed an episode or 15 of Gilligan's Island as a kid.)


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## kookyxogirl (Nov 13, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Hey planted tankers, I’ve been sitting idle for the better part of 2 years without a main display tank. I’ve only being running small nano tanks to keep a few things alive while I waited. Life had gotten really busy rebuilding a 150 year old home, moving in, getting settled, changing jobs and gathering up everything I wanted to set up another tank. Luckily for me, my old man held on to a 45 gallon tank + stand and gave it to me for free. I had enough filter and lighting supplies sitting in my basement to get me started, and I figured I could use this tank as an excuse to gather up the rest of the equipment I want to run a larger 4’ tank ~100 gallons or so in the future.
> 
> Feel free to watch the video at the end of this post, there's a few time lapses of me setting it up. I’ll try to keep consistent uploads to that YouTube channel following along with this tank.
> 
> ...


Beautiful tank, can’t wait to see how it fills in. I’m curious as to how you used suction cups for nana petite? 
I know they can’t be in substrate , will you put them on the glass?
Thank you  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## -Sutekh (Feb 6, 2018)

Good to have you back into the hobby with a bigger tank.You've been a great help to a lot of us. Time for you to enjoy a show tank! It is great to see it thought out in such detail. Judging by your projects, you'd be pretty great to get along with. I flip homes on the weekends for something to do to keep me busy. Keep us updated, Q!


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

Great start to your tank and loved the video!

Subscribed / following / whatever....


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

kookyxogirl said:


> Beautiful tank, can’t wait to see how it fills in. I’m curious as to how you used suction cups for nana petite?
> I know they can’t be in substrate , will you put them on the glass?
> Thank you


Thank you! 

I took the clip part of the suction cup and stuffed the rhizomes into it, trimmed the roots fairly close to the rhizome, and gently pressed the suction cup into the substrate, leaving the rhizome completely above and in the water column. Now I can either leave them be and let the roots grow into the substrate, or I can move them and place them on the glass using the suction cups if I want to down the road. 



-Sutekh said:


> Good to have you back into the hobby with a bigger tank.You've been a great help to a lot of us. Time for you to enjoy a show tank! It is great to see it thought out in such detail. Judging by your projects, you'd be pretty great to get along with. I flip homes on the weekends for something to do to keep me busy. Keep us updated, Q!


Thank you! 

I've rebuilt several places, my father and grandfather used to both be custom home builders and I tagged along with many of their flip or new build projects. My dad was the one who convinced me to buy this place and shine it up, turns out I did such a good job I decided to move into it!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Initial Plant Stock:

Didiplis diandra
Anubias nana ‘Petite’
Ludwigia peruensis
Crypt ‘Flamingo’
Ludwigia repens ‘Rubin’
Rotala Macrandra
Rotala wallichii
Mayaca fluviatilis
Rotala indica ‘Bonsai'
Proserpinaca palustris
Ludwigia ovalis
Echinodorus aflame
Ludwigia palustris
Alternanthera reineckii 'Cardinalis'
Blyxa japonica
Microsorum windelov
Crypt lutea ‘Hobbit’
Lagenandra meeboldii red
Myriophyllum tuberculatum
Cabomba piauhyensis
Ludwigia arcuata
Tonina fluviatilis
Lindernia rotundifolia 'variegated'

A few plants are in rough shape, just barely hanging on - I'll try and nurse them back as best I can.
Green Eheim intake's need to go, still waiting on glassware to be in stock at my preferred LFS.
Micro mix solution has been made, now I need to calibrate my auto doser but I won't have time until next week likely. Manual doses starting tomorrow.
Dosed the full tank with another 10ppm PO4. 
Dosed the incoming water up to 25ppm K (taking into account K from dosing the full tank volume with KH2PO4) and 25ppm Ca, 12.5ppm Mg. 

1st water change, hard to believe this is what 68% total water volume looks like:











RO being tranfered from storage tote into mixing tote:











All filled back up, don't mind the yellowy colour, I haven't got the lights set just right yet:


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Performed another water change yesterday, planning on doing them every other day for a week or so and then start testing for the nitrogen cycle's progression. My 2 x 800gph pumps claiming 10' lift height can't bring water up high enough to fill the tank (8' or so), so I'm returning them today and have a 1600gph pump with a claimed 16 1/2 ' lift height, more than enough I hope, being delivered tomorrow - hopefully just in time for a water change.

I also received a 48" 54W SunBlaster fixture, and I'm in the process of ordering material for a front door panel and a canopy to house all the lighting. My bulb inventory is limited, but that will change in good time.

Lastly, I received a new impeller for the loud filter, but sadly the bushings and shaft kit have not shipped - that order also contains a new PO4 and NO3 test kit as mine are expired. I'll wait for all the parts to arrive before I rebuild the internals - I'll lube the other two filter's internals while I'm at it and I'll try the noisy impeller in the smaller 2215 filter - it fits and can boost output a little bit. If it's the bushings that are bad and not the impeller this could help me boost the smaller filters performance.

Here is an almost complete tank overview, a few things are not in there such as my pH drop:


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Quagulator said:


> Performed another water change yesterday, planning on doing them every other day for a week or so and then start testing for the nitrogen cycle's progression. My 2 x 800gph pumps claiming 10' lift height can't bring water up high enough to fill the tank (8' or so), so I'm returning them today and have a 1600gph pump with a claimed 16 1/2 ' lift height, more than enough I hope, being delivered tomorrow - hopefully just in time for a water change.
> 
> I also received a 48" 54W SunBlaster fixture, and I'm in the process of ordering material for a front door panel and a canopy to house all the lighting. My bulb inventory is limited, but that will change in good time.
> 
> ...


I do not know if you know this but pumps lose considerable output with head pressure with exception to high dollar pumps. For example, that pump you ordered rated at 800gph; without being sure I'm thinking that 800gph number is at 0 feet head loss. As you add head feet, the pump will drop exponentially. The 1600gph pump with 16.5 lift height may have a rough time getting the real gph output to the tank you are desiring. I would recommend looking at the head loss curves associated with whatever pump you buy. Reason being, not all pumps are created equal and some pumps are specifically designed and built for dealing with head pressure. Like I said, perhaps you already know all of this but my aim is to be helpful. 

Those single SunBlaster fixtures with the reflector are nice. It's unfortunate that they really jumped the price on them in the last year or so. What lamp will you be running in it?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

ReeferRusso said:


> I do not know if you know this but pumps lose considerable output with head pressure with exception to high dollar pumps. For example, that pump you ordered rated at 800gph; without being sure I'm thinking that 800gph number is at 0 feet head loss. As you add head feet, the pump will drop exponentially. The 1600gph pump with 16.5 lift height may have a rough time getting the real gph output to the tank you are desiring. I would recommend looking at the head loss curves associated with whatever pump you buy. Reason being, not all pumps are created equal and some pumps are specifically designed and built for dealing with head pressure. Like I said, perhaps you already know all of this but my aim is to be helpful.
> 
> Those single SunBlaster fixtures with the reflector are nice. It's unfortunate that they really jumped the price on them in the last year or so. What lamp will you be running in it?


Yeah, I knew all of that already! But thank you for sharing anyway. I don't care how much flow I actually get -- whether it takes 10 mins or 20, or 30 to pump 30 gallons of water into the tank makes no difference to me, as long as the pump can reach that high. Amazon's return policy is great, so if the pump can't do it, I'll return and order the next size up until I find a pump that can do it LOL!

It came with a 6500K bulb, but I doubt I'll run it with that one, the tank is washed out in colour as is, I'll need more blues and reds.

Possible combo front - back (or vise versa) :

Red or FloraSun Tube
Blue or Purple Tube
7000K Fluval LED
FloraSun Tube


I'm building a canopy for the lighting, so now I'll be able to make full use of the space atop the tank without running into the filter inlets / outlets so I might be able to squeeze another T5 up there, so a total of 4 T5 Tubes and the Fluval LED, we will have to see!


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

In an off-topic comment...

Everytime I see your user name I cannot help but thinking of the song in the link below and substituting "Quagulator"! I do not know what types of music you like but if you like this one then you have to listen to it cranked up on a good stereo!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

ReeferRusso said:


> In an off-topic comment...
> 
> Everytime I see your user name I cannot help but thinking of the song in the link below and substituting "Quagulator"! I do not know what types of music you like but if you like this one then you have to listen to it cranked up on a good stereo!


LOL! That type of music is right up my alley! 

Maybe one day I'll disclose how I came up with my username


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

What type of pump are you getting? An oil-less type I hope.

Here's the one I am using. I'm pumping up 14+ feet. Works great. They have a smaller one too.

Harbor Freight Creekstone Pump


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> What type of pump are you getting? An oil-less type I hope.
> 
> Here's the one I am using. I'm pumping up 14+ feet. Works great. They have a smaller one too.
> 
> Harbor Freight Creekstone Pump


Mine is a waterfall pump just like that, listed as "high lift" but only at 1600gph. I've got 8 feet to pump up so hopefully it's strong enough. It's listed for use with ponds / aquariums, so I assume it's oil-less. 

If not, I'll really have to bump up the power, fork out the money and get a much larger one.


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Maybe one day we'll beat how you came up with your username out of you instead! Lol


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Continuing with water changes every other day. I've got a door panel and a canopy roughed in, just need to paint and attach magnets so they stay put but are removable for maintenance. 

Look's like the LED / T5-HO hybrid days are doomed. Fluval plant lights are amazing... but the touch button is their achilles heel. The button is just terrible. No way to determine what percentage you are running the light and if it gets wet or you use it with water on your finger... good luck. But, those can be easily worked around, nothing but an annoyance. The real problem is the electromagnetic interference from a working T5 ballast causes the touch button to FREAK OUT making the light completely useless. I reached out the Fluval customer support on the issue, but I haven't heard back. The light works perfect when the nearest T5 is off, but once powered up it causes this:






So, looks like the LED will be sold and I'll pick up 2 more T5-HO's!

New pump works perfect, easily brings water up from the basement at a respectable rate:


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Quagulator said:


> Continuing with water changes every other day. I've got a door panel and a canopy roughed in, just need to paint and attach magnets so they stay put but are removable for maintenance.
> 
> Look's like the LED / T5-HO hybrid days are doomed. Fluval plant lights are amazing... but the touch button is their achilles heel. The button is just terrible. No way to determine what percentage you are running the light and if it gets wet or you use it with water on your finger... good luck. But, those can be easily worked around, nothing but an annoyance. The real problem is the electromagnetic interference from a working T5 ballast causes the touch button to FREAK OUT making the light completely useless. I reached out the Fluval customer support on the issue, but I haven't heard back. The light works perfect when the nearest T5 is off, but once powered up it causes this:
> 
> ...


Happy you got the pump that works well for you! 

As for the interference with the lights, this may be a decent solution. However, I will say that I believe your best option would be to run all T5s but, then again, I'm partial to T5 (even though I presently do not run them). 





__





Grow Light RFI Kits - Palomar Engineers®


Grow Light RFI Kit for Digital Ballast To suppress interference to neighbors and nearby electronic devices, we suggest a RFI-BALLAST kit with 1 ring filter on the AC input and another on the ballast lamp output side for each grow light ballast used. (e.g. 20 ballasts = 20 RFI-BALLAST kits...




palomar-engineers.com





Also, in case you're looking for a good place to get good magnets;





__





Rare Earth Neodymium Magnets for Sale (Strong & Powerful)


Neodymium magnets are known for being super strong and powerful. Shop our wide selection of rare earth magnets for sale online at CMS Magnetics today!




www.magnet4sale.com





Keep the updates coming!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

MORE T5 POWER!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Fluval Customer support got back to me - they don't have a solution and offered 1 potential fix: try and move the fixture as far away from the T5's as possible or use something to block the interference from the T5's.... Both of which won't work on my tank. 

I reminded them there is actually a tried and true fix... Sell it and go with all T5-HO's  So that's the current plan!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Fluval Customer support got back to me - they don't have a solution and offered 1 potential fix: try and move the fixture as far away from the T5's as possible or use something to block the interference from the T5's.... Both of which won't work on my tank.
> 
> I reminded them there is actually a tried and true fix... Sell it and go with all T5-HO's  So that's the current plan!


Does the sunblaster interfere just like the other fixture does?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> Does the sunblaster interfere just like the other fixture does?


They both do, when I had the Fluval and the Aquatic Life fixture on a 90 gallon (resting on the plastic rim, no canopy) the Fluval would still act up from time to time. Even on this tank before the SunBlaster was installed, I caught it acting up once like that. 

Long story short, I don't want the headache and the constant checking in on the tank to make sure the Fluval light isn't creating a disco party in my office, I check in on the tank enough as is  I mean... I bought a live stream security camera for the sole purpose of being able to check in on this tank whenever I want (to make sure lights and CO2 are on / off or to ensure I haven't flooded my house).


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)




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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

2 more T5 units ordered for a total of 5 bulbs, and 5 coloured bulbs are also in shipping. The tank was on hold for this past week, Life threw me an opportunity and had to jump on it. Unlucky for me, but luckily for this tank, the opportunity fell through so I can focus on it once more! 

No water changes over the past few days - almost a week. I think the ammonia has risen and caused some melt in a few species, but nothing horrific. Plants are still steadily growing, pearling like crazy, I think I might be driving them a little too hard off the start. At the first sign of algae I'm backing off the light. 

Back on to proper maintenance starting with a waterchange tonight. I'll also be finishing off the stand and canopy this week, and begin testing for ammonia / phosphate regularly to get a grasp on the parameters. 

When the new lights show up, I'll find a combo I like and set up a few channels for various bulbs after mounting them in the canopy. 

Filter parts are all in, so I'll lube them all and replace the internals on the noisy one. 

The 10 gallon I have will be moved to an office desk and will be maintained as a shrimp tank for now too. 3 or 4 of the female blue dream shrimp are berried and I'd like to try and stock up on them. 

Question for those running T5's in a canopy. Are you using any fans for ventilation to keep the heat down? 

Pictures to come after I clean things up.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Couple photo's after a large water change. 2 glass intakes are shipping Monday. NO MORE GREEN TUBES!!!! I can't wait  I also had a biofilm start to grow on the surface, so I've got the surface skimmer up and running. 

Standard mode on my phone makes the tank very yellow:










Using a pre-set mode that cools off the whites makes the tank look a lot closer to how my eyes see it in person:










Dosed the tank up to 10ppm and tested with a brand new PO4 kit. Safe to say the soil is still eating up PO4:


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Question for those running T5's in a canopy. Are you using any fans for ventilation to keep the heat down?
> 
> Pictures to come after I clean things up.


I just upped to six bulbs from five on my 75 setup. For the last year running five I have not used any fans for cooling or anything like that. That said, I do see the water temperature rise through the photo period. Overnight the tank is 23 Celsius and in the winter will rise to 24. In the summer there were times it would go to 26 if I was not running the air conditioning, but typically ended at 25 (my temperature controller is in Celsius BTW, which happens to work well for you). 

I do have a black curtin I have that block light spill from the back from hitting the wall, so most the heat is trapped all day.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> Question for those running T5's in a canopy. Are you using any fans for ventilation to keep the heat down?


I have fans plugged into my Inkbird temp controller. They only come on when tank hits 80*, and really only come on for a short run when it's very hot in the summer here.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

I've been experiencing some very bad melt, sometimes an entire species just melts away completely, other's look perfect and then all of a sudden turn to mush over a day or two. I have a hunch it was too much ammonia from when I left the tank be for 5 or so days without a water change. Ammonia was 4-8ppm (deep green on the API kit, it's an old kit too so I'm not sure how accurate it is). 

3 68% water changes later over 4 days and I hope I'm back on top of it. I figured I must have been getting close to the soil's limit on ammonia, but I was wrong. Back to every other day water changes again. 

Anyway, I got the green Eheim intakes out of the tank finally, gave everything a good trim / thin, picked up a few species from a local guy who was interested in some of my trimmings, and I sold off the LED. T5's are a go in the canopy! Painted the entire inside of it white, even though it's just a mass of reflectors under there. I just now have to match the outside to the stand now. The front panels are done, just waiting on some free time to get the magnets installed. 

Here is some of the melt I was talking about:










Here are some healthy plants:










FTS right after a WC running 1 x 6400K and 1 x Florasun:










Back (bottom) to front (top)
FloraSun
FS + UV
420
660
FloraSun



















FTS with this combo (ignore the box acting like my temporary front panel for the canopy):










Algae was knocking at the front door, so I'll stick to running the FloraSun and FS+UV for 5 hours per day with a 2 hour blast from the other three mid photoperiod. I'm due for a filter clean and replacement of the filter floss, and I need to get my pH meter calibrated and start testing pH drop. I think I can get away with a little more CO2 than I'm running now. Dwyer Flow Meter should be my next purchase, bubbles are a constant uncountable stream.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

When I swapped to soil I also had some melt. Seemed to affect just a small number of plants. But plants that didn't like the ammonia really didn't like it. That being said most recovered but it was a LONG process.

T5's are looking good!!!


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Sorry to hear of your melting problems, soil and ammonia problems. FWIW - I like the T5s and think the FTS looks nice. 

What's your distance to substrate with your T5s?


----------



## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

ReeferRusso said:


> What's your distance to substrate with your T5s?



Thanks! 

19" - 20" depending on slope of substrate. 

Lights are 3" above water line.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Melting has been halted for now. Every other day water changes are helping drastically. Plants that like my soup are weeds. Stunted / ammonia burnt plants are slowly bouncing back. Most of the melted species are pretty common and I can pick them up anytime if I want, I'm not too worried. 

Next problem is water column bacteria causing a lot of cloud. I've got my Sunsun 9W UV sterilizer set up on the tank, but I would assume the bacteria is growing freely in my storage tote. Large water changes are helping with the cloudiness, but if I'm constantly replacing the majority of the water with bacteria filled water, I'll never get ahead. 

So I'll tonight during my water change I'll put the UV sterilizer in my storage water instead of the tank, and use large water changes to keep the tank water clear. If that doesn't work, I'll have to pick up a second UV sterilizer. 

I've also gone on a heavy daily glut dosing regime to help with bacteria (maybe??) and to limit any early tank algae. I have no livestock in the tank, so I'm not worried, but eventually I want to get this tank off the glut. No algae outbreaks just yet, but it will come eventually 

The 10 gallon shrimp tank got a refurbish - Going low tech with it. I've added some rocks, wood and some new easy growing plants should keep me motivated to keep it looking good. A couple berried females were swimming around, I hope I didn't cause any stress and they have a decent hatch. 

I'll try for some pictures tonight, I'm fairly busy and might not be home for when the lights come on.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

FWIW I find that when I do dose heavy Glut I get bacterial blooms. Seems when the concentration of glut gets too high the bio filter takes a bit of a hit too. Just my experience over the past few years with glut.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

I think I'll take Grobbins experience with the Glut and bacteria blooms and quit the Glut dosing unless I see a lot of algae coming.

I didn't grab any pictures last night, I left home before the lights came on, but I did get a lot done:

First filter cleaning on all 3 - Absolutely no build up of organics in any of the filters, floss was still fairly clean too.
Lubed all working parts on all 3 filters.
Replaced working parts in the noisy filter - It still isn't silent, but it's much quieter. I'll give it some more time to settle in.
Swapped the old impeller from the noisy 2217 into the 2215 and noticed a small flow increase.
Put the Sunsun 9W UV sterilizer into my storage tote instead of the display tank.
68% water change.
Tested ammonia prior to WC - light green on the API kit, so it's starting to taper off finally. Remember; I am running zero biological media, and I have never actually fishless cycled a tank before so this is all new. 
Tested phosphate prior to WC - 1.0 - 2.0ppm, so the soil is still eating it up pretty fast. I dose the full tank volume up 10ppm every water change and within 2 days it's down to the tested 1.0 - 2.0ppm level.
Ordered a Dwyer RMA 151-SSV - Still waiting on a shipping confirmation (they only had 1 in stock).

Still no nitrogen dosing because of ammonia readings.

Next steps:

Finish mounting magnets on the front panels for the stand / canopy. This will kill off almost all filter noise. I strive for running my tanks silently - just a personal preference.
Start testing for NO2 and NO3 to see how the cycle is progressing.

Maybe pictures later tonight?? lol 

Question for you all:

I had someone on another board reach out and claim running my 3 filters is way overkill on a 45 gallon tank. I am seeing gentle swaying of most plants, and zero dead spots. This is way more flow than I have typically ran in the past, but I have also came across flow related issues in the past, and I wanted to explore something new / help out with these issues.

How much flow are you running? Do you think flow is a large contributor to issues / success in a planted tank?


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Quagulator said:


> Question for you all:
> 
> I had someone on another board reach out and claim running my 3 filters is way overkill on a 45 gallon tank. I am seeing gentle swaying of most plants, and zero dead spots. This is way more flow than I have typically ran in the past, but I have also came across flow related issues in the past, and I wanted to explore something new / help out with these issues.
> 
> How much flow are you running? Do you think flow is a large contributor to issues / success in a planted tank?


I'm definitely running less flow than you, but flow is for sure important. Plants without adequate access to flow just don't get the same amount of CO2 as plants that do, and I've seen the difference moving a group a couple inches in to better flow can make. Many of the plants we use in aquariums are rheophytic. I wouldn't be surprised if they are stronger when grown with flow, like how growing terrestrial plants with some wind on them helps them grow stronger.

It might be overkill, but I see nothing wrong with overkill!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

My only though is make sure the flow is gentle. Turnover should be fine, but strong flow can lead to BBA. I just ran into this myself when upgrading my 75 to two fluval 407 filters. I ended up throttling them down a bit, and so far it seems to be helping. 

IMO turnover and flow are two separate, but somewhat related topics


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Grobbins48 said:


> My only though is make sure the flow is gentle.


Agreed. 

IME, plants waving around is not good. Wide gentle flow and lots of it works best for me.


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Grobbins48 said:


> My only though is make sure the flow is gentle. Turnover should be fine, but strong flow can lead to BBA. I just ran into this myself when upgrading my 75 to two fluval 407 filters. I ended up throttling them down a bit, and so far it seems to be helping.
> 
> IMO turnover and flow are two separate, but somewhat related topics


What is it about higher flow that causes BBA?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

ReeferRusso said:


> What is it about higher flow that causes BBA?


That's a tough one to answer. Some say extra velocity jams organics into the plant leaf or driftwood.

Heck, I don't know. 

But I do know that BBA often shows up right in the path of the strongest flow. Well known in the hobby. Often appears on outflow pipes and spray bars. A long time ago I documented how I was able to induce BBA on my driftwood just by concentrating flow to a spot on it. No other changes other than flow. Remove the concentrated flow and BBA receded.

But keep in mind it's not the GPH of flow, it's the velocity of that flow. Think of a garden hose. Put your thumb over it and flow is actually impeded but velocity rises. IME, you want that flow as wide open and gentle as you can get.

Funny thing is that it also thrives in areas of low/no flow. Back corners of tank that are dark and still. BBA is a mysterious one for sure.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

ReeferRusso said:


> What is it about higher flow that causes BBA?


I honestly have not even the slightest idea, just something others have talked about and I have personally seen. Even now I can see BBA slowing in my tank after throttling it back.


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Greggz said:


> That's a tough one to answer. Some say extra velocity jams organics into the plant leaf or driftwood.
> 
> Heck, I don't know.
> 
> ...





Grobbins48 said:


> I honestly have not even the slightest idea, just something others have talked about and I have personally seen. Even now I can see BBA slowing in my tank after throttling it back.


That is really interesting. I have not experienced any BBA in either of my tanks. However, I'm still new and learning so there's hope! Lol
Seriously, though, I have decent sized holes drilled in the return for my FX4 and slightly smaller holes for the FX6 which I have directed at the surface for good exchange with the CO2. The smaller tank (28g) is an AIO and I have one return pointed at the surface and the other directed to the center-front. Only issue I have is hair algae that has popped up twice in the small tank. Cannot really say what is causing that yet as I'm still researching.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Thanks for sharing all. I have lots of flow, and a moderate amount of velocity in the tank. I think the center where all three filter outputs concentrate there might be a little too much. I'll keep an eye on it, but I figure if freshly planted tissue culture stems plants didn't get uprooted by the flow, it shouldn't be over the top. I can always add spray bars instead of single outputs if I need to slow the velocity down without impending on total turnover, or drill out large diameter holes. 

Calibrated my pH pen last night, I think I'm going to order a new one or a probe or something, I think mine is a dud. 

Anyway, I got to a pH of 4.66 and then measured again a 1/2 hour - an hour later and got a pH of 4.86, so lets call it in the middle at 4.75 for now. Assuming my pH is in the low 6's degassed, that is a decent drop, probably too much. Flow meter has not shipped as of yet unfortunately. There was quite a gas bubble in the reactor, so I'll prioritize grabbing a degassed measurement today and hopefully I can turn the CO2 down just a touch. 

Here are some FTS's from last night, one with the room light off, and one with the room light on. 

Back - Front:
Zoomed FloraSun
Full Spectrum + UV
420
660
Zoomed FloraSun


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I like where this is going!!!!


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

I like the clean look of everything!

Thanks for sharing the lamp combo too. 

If you are going to get a new probe, depending on the manufacturer and model pH controller, you might be better served by getting a whole new one for a few sheckles more. Just a thought... oh, cancel this I just saw you said "pen".


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

If you really feel like splurging, check out the Edge Blu from Hanna Instruments. You can let it record for days at a time, and download the data onto your computer. From there, you can see the actual curve of CO2 injection, and verify that you’re hitting the CO2 you want, at the time you way, and can see your CO2 plateau actually happening in data.

edge® blu Bluetooth® Smart pH Electrode and Meter - HI2202 (hannainst.com)

I use the data points from the Edge Blu to graph it in Excel, and have charts like this one that I can generate whenever I make any tweaks.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

jellopuddinpop said:


> If you really feel like splurging, check out the Edge Blu from Hanna Instruments.


That's quite a pricy unit for sure! 

If I were to fork out some serious money, I think I would be better off grabbing a Neptune Apex or similar controller that comes with a pH probe and data logging abilities....


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I didn't realize that those controllers had data logging capabilities. I knew you could see them in real time, but I didn't know it could record.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

jellopuddinpop said:


> I didn't realize that those controllers had data logging capabilities. I knew you could see them in real time, but I didn't know it could record.


I'm not 100% sure but I think it comes with some basic data logging abilities that can track for 7 days or something. 

Not ideal but 7 days of pH logging is more than enough for us...


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Flow meter came yesterday, I never received a shipping confirmation, but it was a welcome surprise.

I also have a mid range quality pH meter coming. If this is another dud I'll have to consider a quality probe in a controller / monitor. 

I need 2 x 1/8" male pipe thread - 1/4" barbed fittings for the Dwyer meter correct?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

1/8 Male NPT to 3/16" ID Hose Barb (or whatever your CO2 hose is)







.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> 1/8 Male NPT to 3/16" ID Hose Barb (or whatever your CO2 hose is).


Terminology is a little different north of the border, but I came across this with a quick search:



> MPT stands for Male Pipe Thread and *MIP* stands for Male Iron Pipe which both indicate a male fitting with *NPT* threads


.

Looks like I ordered the right ones (1/8" MIP - 1/4" Barb) 2 are ready for pickup at my local hardware store, 1/4" barb, should be fine with my 3/16" ID tubing.

Should I use some Teflon tape?

Flow meter installation tonight and I'll have an initial data point, new pH meter delivered today too so I'll have some more data to report 

Time to get an Excel file started to start logging data.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> Should I use some Teflon tape?


Yes you must use Teflon tape with pipe threads. If not, they won't appear to fit and you would have to force it. With the Teflon tape it should feel smooth and will be sealed properly.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Flow meter installed. It didn't accept the barbed fittings very well, but nonetheless it's working. I should have looked into what size CO2 resistant tubing I was using, 1/4" barb was a little too big, so I switched to standard airline tubing which stretched over the barb easier. I'll grab new, proper fittings eventually. 

Initial readings were jumping around quite a bit until the check valve settled into a rhythm. Reading about 17 CC/Min on a 45 gallon tank with moderate surface agitation and 1 intake skimmer. Reactor isn't maxed out yet, although a gas bubble starts to form mid-photoperiod with this current amount of CO2. 

The new pH meter I ordered had a broken electrode, a replacement shows up tomorrow. I tried it out anyway and got a degassed reading of 5.75, no idea how accurate that is. We will see what the new one reads, I left the same glass of tank water out to test. 

Pre-water change test results:

Ammonia 1.0ppm
PO4 1.0ppm
NO3 0ppm

Low pH stalling out the cycle?


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

I've never had aquasoil drop the pH low enough to stall a cycle. A month seems like a really long cycling time. Do you have any used media to seed your filters? Would you consider Seachem Stability?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

gjcarew said:


> I've never had aquasoil drop the pH low enough to stall a cycle. A month seems like a really long cycling time. Do you have any used media to seed your filters? Would you consider Seachem Stability?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


I'm still getting inconsistent pH measurements. My main task this week is to sort out my pH meter and get some starting baseline data points. 

I have no cycled media available to me, I haven't used any biological media for 2 years now. I'm also not a fan of any of those bacteria / stability products, I'd rather wait it out. Rushing things always bring up issues that can be avoided. I have lots of patience. 

I tested NO3 prior to a water change and it was around the 5ppm range, light orange, so the cycle has started to progress a little further. 

Ammonia is still hovering 0.5 - 1.0ppm. 

Once the ammonia levels have bottomed out I'll watch for the nitrites to drop and then give the tank another couple weeks before I grab some fish. 

On another note, the flow meter seemed to have jumped up to 23 cc/min. I haven't changed anything, it was sitting at 17 cc's / min, maybe it's just settling in now after 5 days of use. I'll continue to keep an eye on it.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> On another note, the flow meter seemed to have jumped up to 23 cc/min. I haven't changed anything, it was sitting at 17 cc's / min, maybe it's just settling in now after 5 days of use. I'll continue to keep an eye on it.


Are you using the needle valve on the regulator or the valve on the flow meter to set the flow??


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Are you using the needle valve on the regulator or the valve on the flow meter to set the flow??


Flow meter valve is set wide open, needle valve on regulator was used to set the flow. Flow meter valve is too aggressive, I can't fine tune it very accurately. If I wanted to go from 16 cc/min - 17 cc/min using the flow meter's valve, I would take a lot of trial an error. I read a few Dwyer RMA user's experience on TPT and some seem to have this issue, some don't.

My process:

Flow was adjusted via needle valve 2 weeks prior to flow meter install to it's current level. Solenoid was shut off, pressure was released from the lines, flow meter was installed with valve shut, solenoid was turned on, pressure built in the lines pre-flow meter, flow meter valve was opened fully, pressure built post flow meter until check valve opened allowing gas to enter reactor, flow meter jumped around slightly as equilibrium was met a few minutes later.

It sat at the 17 cc/min mark for 4 days and 2 water changes, on the 5th day (3rd water change) I restarted the filters, turned on the solenoid and noticed the flow meter was sitting at 23 cc / min. It might just be settling back to an equilibrium after toying around with the solenoid and filters - I'll check again today after work.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention I target dosed my incoming water up to 10ppm NO3 during my last water change because of the in-tank ammonia levels dropping and biologically produced NO3 beginning to rise.

Current incoming parameters every other day 68% WC:

10ppm NO3
25ppm K
14.69ppm PO4
25ppm Ca
12.5ppm Mh
0.0 dKH


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Interesting. I use the flow meter valve for control. 

My guess is if you are using the needle valve and see fluctuations in flow, it has to do with the needle valve. Or like you said, maybe something else (pressure?) bumped it and it will settle back to the right rate.

Have you been testing PO4? Curious how much the soil is soaking up. Mine ate it up like crazy for a while. 

The issue for me was that I had a tank full of plants, and when PO4 bottomed out so did the plants!


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Great journal man! Im just now seeing it.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Interesting. I use the flow meter valve for control.
> 
> My guess is if you are using the needle valve and see fluctuations in flow, it has to do with the needle valve. Or like you said, maybe something else (pressure?) bumped it and it will settle back to the right rate.
> 
> ...


The flow meter valve is too "broad spectrum" on my unit, I may try it out again and see what I can come up with. 

PO4 has probably bottomed out once or twice if I let the tank go an extra couple days without a water change. Plants rebelled hard after leaving the tank a few extra days. Could be lack of PO4 in the water column, or too much ammonia. 

I've dropped back to every 3 days now for water changes, ammonia is staying below 1ppm and PO4 is between 1 and 2ppm before the water change, so never bottoming out. I dose the full tank volume up 10ppm with every water change, but I test first to make sure the soil was still eating up the last 10ppm dose. 



burr740 said:


> Great journal man! Im just now seeing it.



Thanks! It's a it slower of a process using soil vs what I'm used to, and not having all the equipment ready from day 1, but it's starting to get somewhere!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Ammonia closer to 0.5ppm instead of 1.0ppm prior to water change.
NO3 was closer to 20ppm prior to a water change (I dosed less than 10ppm) so the cycle is really moving along now.
PO4 was closer to 2ppm prior to a water change meaning the soil is just starting to slow it's uptake of PO4.
pH drop with a new decent pH meter out of the box(factory calibrated) 1.1 or so. 

Flow meter settled back down to 17cc / min but after the water change it jumped up to 25 or so. I think I'll just have to live with it.

Couple species are still lagging behind, but it's all been forward momentum for the past 1-2 weeks.

FTS, a lot of plants are starting to become weeds:










Left Side:










Right Side:


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## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

That is looking good! I'm starting to miss my different colored t5's. I probably missed it, are those PowerVeg bulbs?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Econde said:


> That is looking good! I'm starting to miss my different colored t5's. I probably missed it, are those PowerVeg bulbs?


They are similar to PowerVeg's but are from a Canadian horticultural supply company. 

Bulbs front - back go:

Zoomed Florasun
Grow Lights Canada Full spectrum + UV
Grow Lights Canada 420nm
Grow Lights Canada 660nm
Zoomed Florasun

I also have a 3000K bulb being delivered today. I like this first combo of bulbs personally, but I want to see what the tank looks like a little warmer and having the bulbs re-arranged slightly. Pictures to follow of course.


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## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

Quagulator said:


> They are similar to PowerVeg's but are from a Canadian horticultural supply company.
> 
> Bulbs front - back go:
> 
> ...


Very nice. I'm currently using a couple Agrobrites (6400k) and a couple Halco (4100K). I've seen bulbs similar to yours on Amazon. The brand is Nobel I believe. 

That 3K bulb should round it out some I bet. I prefer warmer color temp in the tank.


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## NoahLikesFish (Mar 6, 2021)

If I were you, I’d get a power head as otocinclus and hillstream loaches are adapted to live near waterfalls


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

NoahLikesFish said:


> If I were you, I’d get a power head as otocinclus and hillstream loaches are adapted to live near waterfalls


I think I am set for flow at the moment. I've got 10-15 x tank turnover per hour. Any more and I'm at serious risk of physically pushing over more plants. Currently I'm considering lowering the velocity of 2 of the filters. 

And I want to keep as much equipment out of the tank as possible so the focus is on the plants and livestock. 

On the topic of livestock, I picked up a new, used (for about a week for hermit crabs) 40 gallon breeder. I'll be using this with a HOB filter for a quarantine tank so I can order larger shipments of fish online. Local stores just don't carry what I want at a price I'm willing to pay. 

I'll get to setting it up once ammonia has flatlined out in the main tank. Should be soon. 

Changed out some bulbs for a slightly warmer look:

Back - Front

FS+UV
660
420
3000K
Zoomed FlorSun


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Plant groupings are starting to get a little too large. Too many side shoots are creating a bush like grouping rather than an individual stem grouping. Likely my species selection has something to do with this, I'll start diversifying.

Micro mix should last me 40 days, I did some math and it lasted me exactly 40 days. I mixed up a fresh micro batch last night. 

I also opened up the needle valve and used the flow meter's valve to control the flow. It did get a little easier and now it's always the same and rock solid. Currently using 20cc's per minute - Tank is a nothing but Sprite water on the tail end of the photo period. Need to do some consistent pH drop measurements this week and next if I'll be ordering a large shipment of fish  

Cycle is essentially complete, I'll be ordering fish in a week or so:










Big trim and replant coming this weekend:










L. repens 'Rubin'










L. ovalis:










Crypt flamingo making a comeback:










Echinodorus aflame:










Myriophyllum tuberculatum got hit with something that stunted it, it was growing 1.5" - 2" per day earlier:


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## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

I'm liking that velvet like color on the Echinodorus aflame.


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Bushy or not I really like the way it is looking!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Big trim last night. Thinned out the groupings dramatically and started to place some species I nursed back to health into a more appropriate location aqua scapingly speaking. 

Also moved some species who don't appreciate higher flow into areas with less direct flow.

Started a pH tracking log that I'll be following as much as I can, daily pH drops and degassed measurements. Yesterdays pH low in tank was 5.17, 12 hours degassed in a container is 6.27, 10 hours CO2 off in tank reading was 5.83. 20cc / min.

Full Tank:









Mayaca fluviatilis and Rotala macrandra being nursed back to health:









Cabomba piauhyensis starting to bounce back:









Finally had 2 female Blue Diamond shrimp have shrimplets:









Current Specs:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Nice update and interesting dosing. Looks like soil is still soaking up PO4?

Good to see some plants are perking up. Looks to me like you are well on your way now.

Keep the updates coming this is good stuff!!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Nice update and interesting dosing. Looks like soil is still soaking up PO4?
> 
> Good to see some plants are perking up. Looks to me like you are well on your way now.
> 
> Keep the updates coming this is good stuff!!


10ppm PO4 full tank dose based of 44 gallons every water change (= 14.69ppm in my 30 gallon WC). I test PO4 before every water change with a 1 month old API test kit, it's always been between 1.0ppm and 2.0ppm. Until I see it hovering much higher, I'll continue lathering on the PO4 liberally. Knock on wood I haven't noticed any algae at all....

NO3 is being dosed lower because the soil was supplying the ammonia and the cycle is producing that into NO3 with ease now - testing NO3 with a new kit and shaking bottle #2 to death before a water change results in 20ppm or so (mild orange colour, not deep orange but not light orange either).

When I order some fish I'll grab some more plants to fill in the back and mid ground a little nicer. Updates will continue to roll in! I'm far from auto pilot with this tank 

EDIT: Also remember I loaded on the granular fertilizers under the substrate high in PO4: Osmocote+ and a 10-50-0 + Zn, S.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Fish have been ordered, shipping Monday and hopefully arriving Tuesday - I might do an unboxing for something "new" in these journals????

I left the tank a little longer without a water change to see if I'm ready to start dropping back on WC frequency, plant's aren't doing as well. So I'm not quite ready for weekly water changes yet. 2x weekly is my current plan. Good data to come on how the cycle is when left for a few extra days without a large water change and to see if the soil is still eating up PO4. 

pH drop's to 5.10 at the peak, blips to 5.09, but is stable at 5.10 - Degassed measurements to come, my only measurement was 12 hours degassed in a cup @ 6.27. 

20cc / min - Much more stable running the needle valve opened more and using the Dwyer to fine tune the flow. 

Bacteria bloom is completely gone, running the SunSun 9w UV sterilizer 24/7 in the holding tank seemed to have worked. I'll have it on a timer once my water change routine is dialed in. 

Ludwigia ovalis finally showing the colours I remembered from a few years back:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Good looking plant!

These things take time but looks like everything is moving in the right direction.

I am predicting great things for this set up!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Good looking plant!
> 
> These things take time but looks like everything is moving in the right direction.
> 
> I am predicting great things for this set up!


It's tough to tame it once it gets going, I'm sure you don't need convincing on how fast the plants that like your soup can grow! 

For being my first tank properly using an active substrate, lots of light and lots of CO2 I think it's progressing steadily. A few hiccups but nothing major. 

Biggest problem is tracking down a plant supplier with any sort of half decent selection. Even the tissue culture stock is low almost everywhere I look, and when I find some local I get maybe a little clump that's worth trying to save. 


Tank looks like it's cycled - 5-6 days without a water change and 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 20 - 30 ppm for nitrate. Phosphate was 1ppm or less! Might be why the plants started to act up on me... Maybe I can get away with weekly water changes but Id have to give PO4 a mid week booster shot. 

I went to 2 new LFS's in London - Older gent with I think his son at the one place, cool store, not much for us plant nerds but I did find some crypts and moss for this tank and my shrimp tank. The other place was just a kid running the place, probably my age or younger - Mostly reef and salt stuff but he is into planted tanks and really liked my setup when I showed him. Grabbed some tissue culture plants from him. I'll try my luck at trading in some samples of my trimmings to these guys to hopefully spruce up their plant holding tanks and make them less "Tropica copy and paste". 

Grabbed 3 oto cats as testers, I only saw 1 head up to the surface and grab a gulp of air, then right back down. They were all playful and swimming around at the peak of the pH drop so... I think I'm just under the limit of how much CO2 I can pump in. I left it at 20cc / min but angled the spray bar up a little for more surface agitation - If the pH doesn't get to the 5.10 level because of the increased gas exchange, I'll bump it a little. 

I want to make sure the tank is set and ready for Tuesday when 75 fish show up!


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## NoahLikesFish (Mar 6, 2021)

Don’t worry about blowing plants I had like 30 turnover in my 40. You point the power head vertically so it makes waves, just don’t get floaters and it works very well


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Fish, plant and shrimp shipment arrived, everything alive and healthy.

57 Chili Rasbora 
27 Celestial Pearl Danio
3 Amano Shrimp
13 Tangerine Tiger Shrimp

Ludwigia palustris 'green'
Gratiola viscidula 
Rotala 'Red Cross'
Rotala macrandra 'Mini Pink'
Ludwigia guinea (senegalensis) 
Lobelia cardinalis 'wavy'
Rotala bossii 

The Tangerine Tiger shrimp joined the Blue Diamond shrimp in my 10 gallon shrimp only tank. Once each population has grown, I'll begin transferring some of the younger mature shrimp into the 45 gallon tank and see how they fair. 

As for the fish, everything was healthy, I decided to turn the CO2 on and keep a close eye on everyone. A small group of 4-5 Chili Rasboras hung out at the surface, I only saw 1 or 2 gasping for a few seconds before they got skittish and swam off. However, I found 1 stuck in the intake screen of the Eheim 2217 running at full flow. I removed it and put it out of it's misery, I found another a few minutes later, put it out as well. 

I woke up this morning to 4 additional Chili Rasbora stuck in the intake screen. I removed them, and placed some scrap sponge over both of the 2217 intake's. 

Now, I'm not sure if they were just weak fish, the CO2 got to them, or they simply swam too close to the intakes by accident. Regardless, I'll feel more comfortable running intake sponges. I've got some more attractive black sponges being shipped out this week. 

Not sure if any made it into the actual filter or not, their tails got stuck in the intake screen, their heads were too big to be sucked in completely. Gruesome way too go out I suppose, poor guys. Impossible to get an accurate count on 50+ 1/2" fish. 

FTS after a small rescape and trim:










Newly added fish handing out in the back corners:



















FTS of the shrimp tank:










Blue Diamond:










Tangerine Tiger:


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

Da#$ man, even your shrimp tank has awesome red plants. Don't tell me you run t5's and dirt there too? I was wondering what you got from plantguy.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

xrayguy said:


> Da#$ man, even your shrimp tank has awesome red plants. Don't tell me you run t5's and dirt there too? I was wondering what you got from plantguy.


The red plants are AR 'cadinalis' from ABC Plants. The 2 on the right have been in the tank for 2 weeks after growing them that big and healthy in the 45 gallon. The other ones in the center and on the left were just planted before taking that picture, so by no means did I get them like that low tech.

The shrimp tank has 2 x 23w CFL "cool white" bulbs in a DIY hood painted white on the inside. Eheim 2211 canister, coal slag / Flourite black mix, no dirt, no fertilizer, testing 0's with all my test kits. I threw in some DIY root tabs under the AR however, too early to tell if they will grow in this tank or not.

All the plants I listed in my previous post came from John.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

I think I've caught Collectoritis  I'll give my Visa a break until I'm ready to order more fish. 50+ Chili rasboras and 25+ CPD's, the tank looks lifeless still. I'll double these numbers in a month or two plus grab some other species.


Anubias nana ‘Petite’
Crypt flamingo
Crypt parva
Crypt lutea ‘Hobbit’
Hygrophila Araguaia
Lobelia cardinalis
Ludwigia palustris
Ludwigia palutris ‘green’
Rotala macrandra ‘Mini Pink’
Ammania bonsai
Echinodorus aflame
Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'
Blyxa japonica
Microsorum windelov
Rotala ‘Red Cross’
Lagenandra meeboldii ‘red’
Gratiola viscidula
Ludwigia arcuate
Mayaca fluviatilis
Cabomba piauhyensis
Rotala wallichii
Ludwigia ovalis
Rotala bossii
Myriophyllum tuberculatum
Ludwigia palustris
Proserpinaca palustris
Rotala macrandra
Lindernia rotundifolia
Ludwigia repens ‘Rubin’
Rotala H’ra
30 species in total. 

The only one struggling at the moment is Myriophyllum tuberculatum for some reason. Usually it's the fastest growing species for many of us. It's got some bending / twisting / leaning issues. I'll have to clean up the groupings after nursing a bunch of species back to health, toss the old growth and keep the fresh new growth. 

The livestream camera I am using does emit some IR light ... I wonder if that is causing certain plants to lean forward? Not sure if that's possible or not, but I've remotely shut it off and will only use it when I know the tank lighting is on. The room is virtually dark throughout the entire day - West facing window with black curtains pulled closed, room door shut through the day... 

Going to shoot for weekly water changes now but keep up with my PO4 loading until I see the soil give in. 

"I didn't hear no bell" - Aquasoil


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

well, admitting u have a problem is the first step to a cure. The second step, is sending me most of your problem!! (insert emoji here)


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

xrayguy said:


> well, admitting u have a problem is the first step to a cure. The second step, is sending me most of your problem!! (insert emoji here)


You still haven't sent me your species request list of my trimmings  

Do you have a journal set up for your tank(s)?


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

chards 72g bow


well it's high time I finally show what I got. I've been lurking, asking, and even commenting on here for a while. I've been into fish since I was a kid. Started with my dad and I, then after college I went on a hiatus til about 10 years ago my wife bought me a betta and a bowl. It died the...




www.plantedtank.net





I haven't done 1 for my shrimp tank.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Current tank pic below. 

Seems everything is moving as it should. I did my first water change with fish in the tank, no issues. GSA was creeping in finally, I scraped down the glass. 

Rotting roots on the Ammania bonsai has been a huge issue. 
Myriophyllum tuberculatum is still bending / twisting. 
Blyxa japonica had some rotting issues at the crown base. 
In the lower flow areas there seems to be a nasty protein web / film growing (on the Anubias nana 'Petite' and the Blyxa). 

Everything else seems good. I just have to let each grouping catch up to one another and start playing with individual groupings to get them looking good / mix well with the others. The tank has been on auto pilot, I just need a little time to get the tank filled in more.


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Still looking nice and waiting for the "fill in" to happen. 

Autopilot is a great thing! I do not know enough about the planted side of things yet but, on the reefing side, typically when a system gets to a point where it goes on autopilot, the keeper changes something. I know, it is counterintuitive but many reefers cannot leave well enough alone. We'll see if this holds true with planted people!


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Quick question for you... Does the Echinodorus Aflame need to be in an active substrate, or can they thrive with only water column feeding? I really like the look of that plant, but I'm using BDBS and really don't want to get into the world of root tabs.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

ReeferRusso said:


> Still looking nice and waiting for the "fill in" to happen.
> 
> Autopilot is a great thing! I do not know enough about the planted side of things yet but, on the reefing side, typically when a system gets to a point where it goes on autopilot, the keeper changes something. I know, it is counterintuitive but many reefers cannot leave well enough alone. We'll see if this holds true with planted people!


I'll certainly end up changing things sooner rather than later. I think I'm moving in a month or two, and moving a tank like this will definitely induce some short term issues! 

See below for the thin spots I need some time with to fill in. I've got the species planted there, but they are new and need time to catch up to the original plants. 




jellopuddinpop said:


> Quick question for you... Does the Echinodorus Aflame need to be in an active substrate, or can they thrive with only water column feeding? I really like the look of that plant, but I'm using BDBS and really don't want to get into the world of root tabs.


It shouldn't need a nutrient rich substrate, I had in in a coal slag / Flourite mix prior to this tank, and it grew very well with limited ferts.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


>


I can relate to this. I always have a vision of where the tank will be when this or that fills in, propagates more, etc. Funny thing is by the time it does it's usually all been moved around anyway.

Like where this one is going. Keep the updates coming. Looking great so far.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> I can relate to this. I always have a vision of where the tank will be when this or that fills in, propagates more, etc. Funny thing is by the time it does it's usually all been moved around anyway.


I'm already moving things around in my head. 

Mayaca fluviatilis is just not growing how I would like it to, and it's too weak of a stem plant to be near the filter intake. So I'm looking for a green, sturdy stem plant for that corner. 

Myrio tuberculatum is acting up, so I'm already at peace throwing it in the trash if it doesn't smarten up. 

Ludwigia ovalis is just so aggressive, so I'm at peace tossing it too, maybe it's a nice fit for in front of the filter intake. 

Ammania bonsai is perfect fit for where I want it placed, but if it continues to rot at the roots / stem base, I'll replace it too. 

I've finally found the will power to give up on species that I fight day in and day out, and swap them for plants that enjoy my soup 


Any recommendations on sturdy, back ground green plant species capable of living near the filter intake? Maybe nymphoides hydrophylla 'taiwan'? 

What about something green to replace the Ammania bonsai in the mid ground? Star. repens maybe but... I don't like how it's prone to melting randomly as it gets too thick, and I've already got L. cardinalis in the tank. Bacopa 'compact' I'm okay with trying again but... it's really aggressive and is the exact same colour as my Crypt parva.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> I've finally found the will power to give up on species that I fight day in and day out, and swap them for plants that enjoy my soup
> 
> 
> Any recommendations on sturdy, back ground green plant species capable of living near the filter intake? Maybe nymphoides hydrophylla 'taiwan'?
> ...


LOL enjoy my soup! As close to a Greggz'ism as there is!!

I was going to suggest the Taiwan. Steady grower. No drama. Little care. And great leaf shape and color. Others that might work might be Limnophila Chinesis or Rugosa? Or even a tall Syngo like Sp. Meta?

As to the Bonsai, I would actually give it a bit more time. Some plants don't like fresh soil and it takes them a while to figure it out. If not, maybe a Tonina?

And I get what you said about moving stuff around in your head. I do it all the time. It's like a puzzle that is never quite solved.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> I was going to suggest the Taiwan. Steady grower. No drama. Little care. And great leaf shape and color. Others that might work might be Limnophila Chinesis or Rugosa? Or even a tall Syngo like Sp. Meta?
> 
> As to the Bonsai, I would actually give it a bit more time. Some plants don't like fresh soil and it takes them a while to figure it out. If not, maybe a Tonina?


I'd like the idea of the Taiwan a bit more if I had it in sand... Easy to uproot the big root system, toss the mother and keep the largest daughter, but with soil I think it might be a bit too messy. I had the idea of a tall Crypt spiralis / balansae but I don't want to deal with unseen runners popping up 36" away from the mother plant. 

A Limnophila species is certainly an option on the table.

I gave Tonina fluviatilis a shot when I initially set up the tank, it wasted away to nothing in 3 days from a TC cup. When my supplier has more C. lutea 'Hobbit' in stock I'll grab another cup of Tonina fluviatilis and give it a shot. 

Possibly Lloydelia nummularia - Super hardy species that can grow in a toilet, but it sends out loads of water column roots like it owns the place. 

I'm giving the bonsai one last stint. If the bottoms rot away on me again, I'll toss them and keep the 2-3 stems that are settled in only. Give the area a thorough cleaning and replace with Pogo helferi / Hygrophila 'compact' / Bacopa 'compact' or a shorter, off-green Crypt like Undulata 'red' or lucens. 

Another one to note is the Mermaid Weed, not going red at all even as it approaches the surface. I've only given it 1-2 trims as it was a species that rebelled against the fresh soil and I only recently tossed the ratty bottoms, so I'll give it more time with the nice tops replanted before I decide to keep it or not. If it stays a washed out yellow colour, I'll get rid of it.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> I'd like the idea of the Taiwan a bit more if I had it in sand... Easy to uproot the big root system, toss the mother and keep the largest daughter, but with soil I think it might be a bit too messy.


FWIW, I rarely uproot it. Mostly just pinch off the top leaves as it grows.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Greggz said:


> FWIW, I rarely uproot it. Mostly just pinch off the top leaves as it grows.


Same here. Maybe uproot a couple times a year when it really gets out of control. 

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Well, Mayaca fluviatilis is looking a little better as of last night:










Rotala bossii is looking very nice:










Ammania bonsai is still rotting away at the roots / base. This is 24 hours after replanting them all, they are already swaying in the current as if the stem base is made from jello:


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

House is up for sale (don't worry, the tank is coming with me and nothing will change) so I've been living at my girlfriends place for almost a week now while the agent is showing the place. I've been around to check in on things, but no time for a water change or any maintenance at all really. It's due for a trim, but finally the groupings are filling in. I gave the tank a 10ppm PO4 booster mid week, NO3 and K should be in check, auto doser is keeping up with the micros. 

Full tank:










Left:










Right:










Rotala bossii:










Ludwigia guinea (senegalensis)










A. bonsai has melted to virtually nothing:










Some sort of hair algae has crept in:










Overall not too bad, algae is limited and I'll attribute that to running the tank on full throttle without me being around for over a week. Nothing I can't handle.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

** Long Post / Rambling Below ** *_Read at your own risk  *_

Tank has been on auto pilot for a while now - I haven't changed a single thing:

1 x weekly 68% water change.
1 x mid-week 10ppm full tank volume PO4 booster dose (20ppm full tank volume / week).

Incoming RO water is targeted at:
12.5ppm NO3
15ppm PO4 (roughly 10ppm full tank volume)
25ppm K
25ppm Ca
12.5ppm Mg
0.0 degrees KH

Pre-water change test results:
NO3 - 5ppm
PO4 - 1.0ppm - 2.0ppm (soil is slowly giving in on the PO4 uptake)

I did notice an Amano shrimp died, perhaps this tank just isn't cut out for shrimp. I'm starting to lean towards simply keeping a separate shrimp tank vs trying to make them work in this tank. This should allow me more fish stocking flexibility.

Currently feeding a high quality, finely crushed flake (50% algae based + 50% all-purpose whole fishmeal based) and frozen baby brine shrimp. I have a micro worm starter culture on order, so ill mix in some live feedings once I get my own culture going.

My house sold with a quick closing date. No worries, I've dedicated an entire day to moving this tank, so I won't be rushed. I've moved tanks before, so I'll do as I always do. It should go smooth if I have everything in place prior to moving it.

I'm thinking of a few changes during the move:

1) Re-run some filter tubing so the intake is on the opposing side of the tank vs the output of each filter. I think this should help further mix up the water. I've got some noticeable flow issues despite the high tank turnover.

2) Install a second reactor inline with my other Eheim 2217. Currently I am using a single reactor connected to one of the 2217's. I have an old reactor in storage that I can likely use on with the other 2217. This should help dissolve the gas a little quicker and reduce the noisy gas bubble. I would have to experiment with methods on splitting the gas equally between 2 reactors. I want to use 1 check valve, and have the Tee after check valve... we will see.

Plants are a little messy, only 1 or 2 species left that haven't quite adjusted. The rest are growing well, still waiting on the grouping to fill in (I've been leaving most trimmed stumps to gain some inventory, hence the groupings being a little messy).

I've ordered more Crypt lutea 'Hobbit' for the front right / middle to increase that grouping's density, and some Bacopa caroliniana + Tonina fluviatilis to replace the Ludwigia ovalis (too aggressive) and lindernia rotundifolia (not happy with how it's growing / how it looks). I might keep some lindernia rotundifolia to use as a mid ground plant because it isn't a fast grower in my tank.

Rotala 'Red Cross' got swallowed up by other plants and isn't looking too hot, so I moved it to a temporary spot out in the open to try and save it.

I removed the last of the Ammania bonsai - I couldn't save it. I replaced it with a small grouping of Crypt petchii 'pink' and a small grouping of Pogostemon helferi. I also added about a thousand Crypt parva crowns around most of the front left groupings. I think it will look really cool in a few months when they fill in. 

Current FTS:










Left side:










Right side:










Mermaid Weed growing well, it's just not colouring up:










Cabomba piauhyensis:










Crypt flamingo:










Current parameters (minus the mid-week 10ppm PO4 dose)












Sorry for the long post, just getting all my ideas / thoughts out onto paper


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Great update!! 

Glad to see things are coming along so well. Plants look healthy and happy. Have a feeling this tank will only get better and better. 

Looked over your dosing and will be curious to see if you can keep NO3 that low long term. I was able to when soil was fresh, but eventually needed more. Only time will tell. 

And I have moved tanks before. One thing I have learned is that they come down a lot faster than they go back together. Good luck on the move and hope everything goes smoothly.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Looked over your dosing and will be curious to see if you can keep NO3 that low long term. I was able to when soil was fresh, but eventually needed more. Only time will tell.


NO3 dosing will increase shortly.

I didn't want to change too much right before the move, so I left it.

I was slightly surprised to see the NO3 test so low right before a water change, but it will certainly get bumped up in the near future.

I also want to experiment with a little bit of Cl dosing, see where that takes things.


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

Congrats on a great looking tank and good luck with the move!

A couple of questions

1. What is Trigger under your micros recipe?
2. In the first tank pic what is the dark purple(?) plant to the left of what appears to be AR?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

rzn7z7 said:


> Congrats on a great looking tank and good luck with the move!


Thanks! The move should go well, I'll prep everything prior to it / have everything ready to go.



rzn7z7 said:


> 1. What is Trigger under your micros recipe?


Trigger is a branded name for a biostimulant called EB 97. It's an additive we introduce into liquid fertilizers that increases the rate at which plants produce stress hormones allowing them to enhance root development and growth rate, optimize nutrient uptake and use, and improve plant vigour and uniformity.

I used to sell a lot of it for use in agriculture when I was at my old job. It's carried in a diluted liquid urea ammonium nitrate solution. It's needed in very little quantities - 100-200 grams of EB 97 per acre for row crops, much more for high value crops (fruit, veg, herbs etc. get treated with that rate every other week). Foliar or broadcast applications.

I figure it can't hurt anything, and I have access to it to I might as well use it 



rzn7z7 said:


> 2. In the first tank pic what is the dark purple(?) plant to the left of what appears to be AR?


That is a plant called Echinodorus aflame. Mine have some slight twisting going on with the leaves, but I'm hoping they will correct themselves with time. I want to increase the grouping of these because they do offer that deep purple colour which is quite unique.


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## NoahLikesFish (Mar 6, 2021)

You should get some furcatas or other psudomugil as a centerpeice they are very active and get a little bit bigger and school nicely and go well with reds and greens


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Interesting on the PO4 aspect. So, you dose ~15ppm after a w/c and by weeks' end it's in the 1-2ppm area, even with organic contribution? That's a lot of plant uptake, or are you saying the substrate is taking it in or do you think there is a lot of precipitation going on?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Deanna said:


> Interesting on the PO4 aspect. So, you dose ~15ppm after a w/c and by weeks' end it's in the 1-2ppm area, even with organic contribution? That's a lot of plant uptake, or are you saying the substrate is taking it in or do you think there is a lot of precipitation going on?


I think I know the answer to this but will defer!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

NoahLikesFish said:


> You should get some furcatas or other psudomugil as a centerpeice they are very active and get a little bit bigger and school nicely and go well with reds and greens


That is the plan so far  



Deanna said:


> Interesting on the PO4 aspect. So, you dose ~15ppm after a w/c and by weeks' end it's in the 1-2ppm area, even with organic contribution? That's a lot of plant uptake, or are you saying the substrate is taking it in or do you think there is a lot of precipitation going on?



I dose 20ppm weekly. 

My 30 gallons of RO water is dosed with 14-15ppm of PO4 which equals 10ppm at the full tank volume. I then dose another 10ppm mid week because the API PO4 kit is showing 1 - 2ppm. The kit is a couple months old, with an expiration date years from now and I follow the instructions exactly. 


I'm not an active soil expert, but I think it's a combination of soil uptake, plant uptake and likely some precipitation. 

Plants are growing very fast and I have light stocking with small amounts of food. No algae to speak of if I'm on my schedule, and a tiny bit of green spot algae if I miss a PO4 mid week dose or am late on a water change. 

If it's working, I don't wish to change much at the moment


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Not a matter of changing anything, just a point of interest. You're dosing PO4 at a rate much higher than NO3 and, yet, no apparent PO4 build-up in the water column (if the test kit is good). I don't recall seeing such high consumption of PO4. You'd think that your other nutrients would bottom out if plants were growing at a rate capable of consuming that much PO4. I would think that even luxury uptake wouldn't explain this. The PO4 must be going somewhere else ...but where?


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I was always under the impression that active substrates with crazy high CEC will absorb phosphates for a while. That would be my guess as to where its all going.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Deanna said:


> Not a matter of changing anything, just a point of interest. You're dosing PO4 at a rate much higher than NO3 and, yet, no apparent PO4 build-up in the water column (if the test kit is good). I don't recall seeing such high consumption of PO4. You'd think that your other nutrients would bottom out if plants were growing at a rate capable of consuming that much PO4. I would think that even luxury uptake wouldn't explain this. The PO4 must be going somewhere else ...but where?


I saw the exact same thing when I switched over to soil. Like Quag I was dosing massive amounts of PO4 for awhile. Literally dose 10 ppm and two days later unreadable in the water column. And yes, I have calibration solutions and know the test kit was accurate. 

To me this is one of the keys if someone swaps over to soil. If you have plants that have been used to pulling PO4 from the water column, it can be quite a shock when there is none. In my tank if I let it bottom out, hair algae suddenly crept up. So I paid close attention and dosed very large amounts for awhile.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Deanna said:


> Not a matter of changing anything, just a point of interest. You're dosing PO4 at a rate much higher than NO3 and, yet, no apparent PO4 build-up in the water column (if the test kit is good). I don't recall seeing such high consumption of PO4. You'd think that your other nutrients would bottom out if plants were growing at a rate capable of consuming that much PO4. I would think that even luxury uptake wouldn't explain this. The PO4 must be going somewhere else ...but where?


I think the test kit is good, after I dose the tank with 10ppm it shows up on the test kit at 10ppm + 

I knew I would be dosing a lot of PO4 off the start, and it doesn't bug me at all that I have to continue dosing so much. It's been such a pleasure learning and experiencing a different method of a planted tank. Eventually my NO3 dosing will surpass my PO4 dosing, I'm planning on dosing a small amount more NO3 after I move the tank this coming weekend. I'll give it 1 week after the move, and then raise NO3 slightly. 



jellopuddinpop said:


> I was always under the impression that active substrates with crazy high CEC will absorb phosphates for a while. That would be my guess as to where its all going.


Buffering soils are known for PO4 uptake when fairly new. PO4 is an anion so I don't think it plays a role on the CEC. I'd have to do a lot more digging / research before I could give a more scientific answer as to why these soils uptake so much PO4  



Greggz said:


> To me this is one of the keys if someone swaps over to soil. If you have plants that have been used to pulling PO4 from the water column, it can be quite a shock when there is none. In my tank if I let it bottom out, hair algae suddenly crept up. So I paid close attention and dosed very large amounts for awhile.


Some plants rebel hard seemingly overnight + small amounts of algae pop up, and it only happens if I am away for a few days and forget about the second weekly shot of PO4 or if I am late on a water change. 

The weeks that I get my water change done on time and add a second dose of PO4, I never see any plants start to melt back and absolutely no algae. 

Also, the plants that struggled when the tank was really new, constantly cutting away old growth + replanting new growth fixed 90% of the species back into shape. The other 2-3 species are kind of just "growing" rather than thriving. 

So I'm at peace throwing them away and trying new species - 2 orders in the mail at the moment


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

I've been silently stalking your thread for all the awesome nuggets of experience your journey has given you and just wanted to give you a giant thank you for all the documentation/ sharing!!


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

I would never have expected that the soil substrates would absorb such high levels of PO4 so rapidly. How long does it take the soil substrates to reach equilibrium? Are there similar absorption rates for all macros (except N)? If so, is it safe to assume that micros would be affected as well?

Perhaps measurements are not necessary until equilibrium is reached, since they can’t be trusted to be meaningful to the plants, e.g.; if PO4 is reading 1-2ppm, does that simply mean that measurements are being taken a little before the substrate absorbs all of it? Is it safe to assume that the plants can absorb enough despite the drawdown by the substrate? Maybe it would be better to pour gobs of whatever the soil absorbs into the tank to speed the time to equilibrium, perhaps outside of an active tank and then place the substrate into the active tank once such equilibrium is reached.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Deanna said:


> I would never have expected that the soil substrates would absorb such high levels of PO4 so rapidly. How long does it take the soil substrates to reach equilibrium? Are there similar absorption rates for all macros (except N)? If so, is it safe to assume that micros would be affected as well?
> 
> Perhaps measurements are not necessary until equilibrium is reached, since they can’t be trusted to be meaningful to the plants, e.g.; if PO4 is reading 1-2ppm, does that simply mean that measurements are being taken a little before the substrate absorbs all of it? Is it safe to assume that the plants can absorb enough despite the drawdown by the substrate? Maybe it would be better to pour gobs of whatever the soil absorbs into the tank to speed the time to equilibrium, perhaps outside of an active tank and then place the substrate into the active tank once such equilibrium is reached.


I think it is mostly P, safe to assume K is being exchanged on the CEC too. I have no idea how long it would take. Each batch of soil is slightly different than the next. 

Micro's I dose daily so there should always be some present in the water column. 

Essentially, dosing 20ppm weekly is considered dosing gobs of PO4... Anytime I test PO4 it's usually within 1 day of a water change at which point the test is reading 1-2ppm, not sure how accurate it is at the lower concentrations, but after doing 10ppm it shows on the test almost exactly. 

I assume it's safe to say the plants can uptake what they need as the soil is stripping the water column of PO4. Plus plants will begin uptake through the roots as the soil is a large store for PO4. 


I considered dumping in excessive PO4 rich water into the tank before setting it up, but I figured ADA and the vast amount of users know best - Set up the tank, plant it, and perform large water changes day in and day out until the soil settles.


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## NoahLikesFish (Mar 6, 2021)

If you have phosphates (I don’t know if this works in freshwater but it works in reef tanks) you could try out vodka dosing, I wouldn’t overdo it because it will make your tank dependent on the vodka to survive but it basically removes all your nitrate and phosphate and makes a unnatural amount of bacteria in the tank. It’s fish safe I believe.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

NoahLikesFish said:


> If you have phosphates (I don’t know if this works in freshwater but it works in reef tanks) you could try out vodka dosing, I wouldn’t overdo it because it will make your tank dependent on the vodka to survive but it basically removes all your nitrate and phosphate and makes a unnatural amount of bacteria in the tank. It’s fish safe I believe.


Assuming this works (I'm skeptical), why on earth would you want to strip the water of all Nitrates and Phosphates? Plants need these nutrients to live, and Quag is actively trying to get more phosphates into the water, not less.


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## NoahLikesFish (Mar 6, 2021)

ah ok I thought he was trying to remove phosphate. It does work though you can google it


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

NoahLikesFish said:


> ah ok I thought he was trying to remove phosphate. It does work though you can google it


I'm purposely dosing 20ppm of phosphate weekly to try and get the soil to give in with it's phopshate uptake. 

When the soil stops uptaking phosphate, I'll want to keep phosphate levels in the 3-5ppm range within the water column. 

Along with PO4, I'll also want to keep NO3 in the 10-20ppm range for the plants.


----------



## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Move was a success on Saturday. On Sunday I picked up a pair of apisto's and 10 threadfin rainbows, 8 of which made it I believe. No photo's of the fish as they are still hiding out. Chili rasbora's are back in stock with on of the hobbyists I support, I think I'll pick up another 50 and possibly 15 emerald rasboras.

I moved intakes of 2 of the filters to the opposing ends of their respective outputs to hopefully keep flow and turnover rates high.

Stripping down the tank:










Me sitting with it during the drive:










Setting the tank back up:










Initial fill up:










Tank as of now:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Wow looks like it didn't skip a beat. I would still keep an eye on ammonia levels as sometimes you can have a mini cycle. But from the looks of things I am guessing that it's not much too worry about.

Well done and tank is looking great.


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

Well done man, it looks like you just did a water change. Impressive move man.


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## Chizpa305 (Feb 13, 2011)

That's a lot of filters. Do you have all of them currently active? I only see one intake and outtake in the tank itself.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Chizpa305 said:


> That's a lot of filters. Do you have all of them currently active? I only see one intake and outtake in the tank itself.


1 Eheim 2217 running the CO2 reactor
1 Eheim 2217 running alone
1 Eheim 2215 running an intake skimmer

2 glass intakes with black intake sponges in each corner
1 glass surface skimmer intake
1 12" black spray bar directly in the middle of the tank pointing upwards to create surface agitation.
1 black output in the left hand corner facing forwards, slightly leaning to the middle of the tank.
1 glass output in the right hand corner facing forwards, slightly leaning to the middle of the tank. 

The intakes / outputs are now on opposing ends of the tank, before the move they were on the same side. I'm still running into flow issues particularly where the Windelov Java Fern and Blyxa are.


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## rjugas (Nov 3, 2017)

Hi, are those 2217s silent? I recently got one and I expected it to be more silent. 

Odesláno z mého Redmi Note 7 pomocí Tapatalk


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

rjugas said:


> Hi, are those 2217s silent? I recently got one and I expected it to be more silent.
> 
> Odesláno z mého Redmi Note 7 pomocí Tapatalk


In good working condition they are virtually silent. After years of usage and old parts, they start to become slightly noticeable.

If it's brand new or the filter has been sitting for a long time, they will be slightly louder because the parts don't have a layer of biofilm on them to quiet them down.

I find that if they are older / used, a fresh impellor / shaft / bushings and some aquarium safe lube will help quiet them back down.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

First water change done since the move. Plants did not like a few days without micro's and I skipped (forgot actually) the top-up PO4 dose. 

Gave all the stems except the Macrandra and H'ra a big trim - inventory on 95% of the stem species are almost where I need them. Once I get the inventory up to my liking, I'll get everything trimmed and replanted without leaving the stumps and let things grow out. 

Shipment of 50 more Chili Rasbora is arriving this afternoon plus 15 emerald rasbora's to compliment the celestials. The apisto's are out more often now, the male is colouring up very nicely. Can't wait to see him in a few months time. 

Currently feeding everyone crushed high quality flake and some frozen baby brine shrimp. I've received a micro worm starter culture that was in the mail for 2+ weeks during questionable weather, I've got the entire thing in my media / culture container but it's looking pretty lifeless after a week. 

Here are some photo's directly after a big trim / water change:


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Plants were poking at the surface so I had to give the tank a quick trim because I am gone for 2 days on a small road trip to pick up my new car. 

I was slightly rushed, so I pinched off the tall stems and just shoved them back down into the groupings - lights were off so I guess I'll see what they look like when I get back  

Tank got it's second dose of PO4 for this week - I didn't test but I assume the soil hasn't give in just yet. 

Fish were gasping at the surface 1/2 hour or so before the lights come on, so I increased the photoperiod by having them come on sooner and pushed CO2 back another 15 minutes just to be sure - I went against my advice by changing CO2 schedules while I'm away from the tank, but if anything there will be less CO2 in the water by the time the lights come on. I'll monitor this next week. 

I also bumped it from 20cc / min to 22cc / min. After the move, there is no gas bubble trapped in the reactor at the end of the day, but pH drop went from 1.1 to 0.9. So I increased the flow of gas. 

Male apisto from the other night:


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Omg that is one gorgeous apisto!!! Thank you for tree eye candy!!!!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Finally pulled all the big groupings and broke them down to 100% new stems (no dead stumps).

Moved things around slightly to try and break up the red groupings with some green - more green plants are in there than it seems, they are just slow growing out of tissue culture / emersed growth, but they are in there!

I thought I was getting into some nasty BBA but as it grew in, it turned out to be some strain of black thread algae. I'm going to blame the move and the inconstant CO2 directly after as the main cause. I cut away as much as I could, spot treated with Met14 and will continue dosing Met14 daily until I get ahead of things. I'll spare you the photo's, but it wasn't bad - we've all seen it before lol 

Bumped NO3 from a water change volume targeted 12.5ppm up to 20ppm. Dropped K2SO4 dosing slightly to accommodate for the extra K in KNO3. See below for a full updated spreadsheet.

Microworm culture was showing signs of life, but it went moldy on me so I started a new culture and transferred some over - hopefully I can get ahead of the fungi by constantly creating new cultures with fresh media for the microworms. 

Next steps are to dial in the CO2 back to a 1.1 drop and grab 12 more oto cats and 15-20 amano shrimp.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Your tank looks so neon it's awe inspiring!!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Plinkploop said:


> Your tank looks so neon it's awe inspiring!!


Thank you! The colours aren't quite where I want them to be just yet - certain plants just haven't been cooperating to my "standards" just yet. 

Many plants were sold under a species name, but they just aren't growing how they are "supposed" to - they are some sort of variant. 

I bought Ludwigia peruensis from 2 different suppliers and they are completely different - 1 kind is the kind I want, the other is not. 

I bought some Hygrophila araguaia to use as a foreground plant, but what I got was something that grows much taller / brown instead of a red/purple like the Hygrophila araguaia I grew in the past. It's fairly unique, so I'll keep it - I just need to move it around a bit. 

Below is where green plants are - they just haven't caught up yet with their neighbors growth:


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## ReeferRusso (Dec 29, 2018)

Maybe those green ones aren't growing because, well...


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

ReeferRusso said:


> Maybe those green ones aren't growing because, well...


😂😂😂😂😂😂 I hit play and totally embarrassed the crap out of my teenager in the grocery store!! Just had to thank you for this very precious moment!!


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

Ya, I've got a pile of plants that didn't turn out to be what I ordered ( or what I thought I ordered).

I love your colour combo's! You've got some really vivid reds in there


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

xrayguy said:


> Ya, I've got a pile of plants that didn't turn out to be what I ordered ( or what I thought I ordered).
> 
> I love your colour combo's! You've got some really vivid reds in there


Thank you!

I contacted one of the suppliers you and I were talking about in our conversations asking him for clarification on some species - he said he didn't know / couldn't find out for me.

I'm no stranger to him, I've talked to him many times and I order several times from him per year, so it's a little disappointing he couldn't give me a more concise answer on some species true names.


I really don't mind the variants I received, they are very unique and "rare" so I'll keep them, I just need to adjust how I placed a lot of them because they are growing differently than how their true species grow.

BTW I haven't forgotten about sending you some clippings - the weather is just finally warming up / out of the frost potential and I've been really busy with the move. I'll make sure I send out what I can if you are still interested.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Plants were poking at the surface so I had to give the tank a quick trim because I am gone for 2 days on a small road trip to pick up my new car.
> 
> I was slightly rushed, so I pinched off the tall stems and just shoved them back down into the groupings - lights were off so I guess I'll see what they look like when I get back
> 
> ...


Thats a gorgeous fish. What variety is it?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Discusluv said:


> Thats a gorgeous fish. What variety is it?


Apistogramma borellii

I PM'd a few experienced members with cichlid's as their profile picture and asked for opinions on various apisto species that "could" be fine with the tiny Chili rasboras and they agreed the borellii are one of the most peaceful.

I also have a lot of red's in the tank, and wanted some blue to offer some contrast which he is certainly displaying.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Apistogramma borellii
> 
> I PM'd a few experienced members with chilid's as their profile picture and asked for opinions on various apisto species that "could" be fine with the tiny Chili rasboras and they agreed the borellii are one of the most peaceful.
> 
> I also have a lot of red's in the tank, and wanted some blue to offer some contrast which he is certainly displaying.


Oh wow! That is a South American cichlid Ive never kept. The color is so intense. It looks to still be a juvenile? If thats the case it will only get prettier when reach maturity.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Discusluv said:


> Oh wow! That is a South American cichlid Ive never kept. The color is so intense. It looks to still be a juvenile? If thats the case it will only get prettier when reach maturity.


He is still young yes, hopefully he will only continue to look better!


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

Quagulator said:


> BTW I haven't forgotten about sending you some clippings


I wasn't worried. Through our conversations, you seem like a man of your word. Something tells me you've been busy lately. And my tank is by no means empty. Thanx for remember though!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Safe to say the soil is giving way with its PO4 uptake. I think this might be why I was getting some algae build up and inconstant plant health / growth. The picture below is 3 days after dosing 10ppm. usually it would show 0, and now it's showing a darker blue. So I'll start to test PO4 more frequently to determine how much I should be dosing weekly. 











Picked up 10 amano shrimp to help with the algae, and grabbed 4 honey gourami's to finish out my stocking. I've already caught an amano snacking on a chili rasbora... we will see how things look after a day or two. 

Changed around some plant groups and added some Hottonia palustris and L. inclinata 'Cuba' - Still searching for the lst 1-2 species that like my soup.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Sorry about the chili rasbora. I didn't think amano killed fish. Good to know. Congrats on your substrate fix!!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Plinkploop said:


> Sorry about the chili rasbora. I didn't think amano killed fish. Good to know.


This is the second time I've caught an Amano catching / eating a live fish. 

When I was away at school I had a 20G Long and caught an Amano eating a live pygmy cory cat


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Wow, they're vicious 😅


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## KrangDog (Sep 1, 2020)

How long were you dosing 20ppm PO4 per week for? Good to hear that the uptake is slowing.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

KrangDog said:


> How long were you dosing 20ppm PO4 per week for? Good to hear that the uptake is slowing.


The tank was set up at the start of 2021 - so around 4.5 - 5 months of dosing an average of 15ppm PO4 weekly (I forget sometimes so every other week or so it was only seeing 10ppm not 20ppm). 

Every other day 68% water changes for the first 1.5 - 2 weeks and then weekly 68% water changes.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

1 week from dosing 10ppm of PO4 and the tankwater is testing at 1-2ppm - Safe to say I am off the excess PO4 dosing, however I'll continue to test weekly. Currently dosing a single front load of 10ppm. 

Algae is gone - I think not dosing the extra 10ppm of PO4 and the high Met14 dosing / cutting lights back by an hour was the ticket. 

I noticed plants weren't doing the greatest, I figured it was due to the high PO4, however today I noticed the water was extremely warm - It was very very hot compared to all the tanks I've kept. Fish have been acting a little strange lately too - I think the warm weather plus closed top full of T5's were heating the water up drastically. No heater on this tank. All the filter motor housings felt normal, so it must me the warmer weather + T5's. 

I topped the tank off with a few gallons of room-temp water immediately and then floated a sandwich baggie full of ice in it for while until the tankwater dropped back down to normal levels. Fish seemed to enjoy swimming close to the baggie full of ice. I quickly installed 2 fans onto the back of the canopy that come on a few minutes before the lights and shut off half an hour after the lights turn off - I expect to be topping off the tank more often now, but that's fine by me.

Let's see how the normal temps vs high temps affect plant health. I'm glad I caught this early - I've spent way more money on livestock with this tank that I typically do. 

High Met14 dosing melted back my variant of H. araguaia. 

A few pics from earlier today before a water change (the Crypt flamingo looks slightly more vibrant than it actually is because of the lighting / camera setup).


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Wow, what a difference temperature can make. I performed a water change after installing the cooling fans and the tank is simply ALIVE now. Fish are out swimming around, the tank actually looks and feels fully stocked now. Fish colours are much better too. 

Plants have perked right up, pearling has resumed, colours have come back and they simply look healthy again. Not a single sign of algae either - A little GSA on the back glass because I trimmed the plants showing more of the back + did not scrape it / scrub it. Goes to show that having a bunch of algae pop up isn't the end all - it can be managed if we take the simple yet proper steps to rid it. 

Here is a shot of the L. repens "Rubin" that did not like the heat - Notice the healthy stem on the left, and the heat stressed stems on the right. I hope they all come back... 










FTS:


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

What's the temperature difference after installing the cooling fans?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

rzn7z7 said:


> What's the temperature difference after installing the cooling fans?


I didn't measure, however:
It felt slightly warmer than a heated pool - So high 80's F prior to fans
It felt room temp - So mid 70's F after fans.

It was also very warm outside prior to fans, and now it's cooler again after fans. More monitoring on my part to come. I guess I'll throw in my thermometer again.


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

Regarding AS sucking up all PO4:

I believe AS contains aluminum compound. (I might be wrong tho)
Aluminum reacts VERY well with PO4 and precipitates into AlPO4.
In fact people use aluminum oxide in reef tanks to remove PO4 effectively.

It cannot be CEC because...well it is not cation. Po4(3-).

I don't know whether plants are able to use AlPO4(I think they can't), but I found dosing additional P helps when using AS like you.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> Wow, what a difference temperature can make. I performed a water change after installing the cooling fans and the tank is simply ALIVE now. Fish are out swimming around, the tank actually looks and feels fully stocked now. Fish colours are much better too.


Good to hear and not a surprise. I have been using cooling fans for years. 

I have them hooked up to an Inkbird temp controller and they come on whenever things get too warm. 

I've found anything over about 80* or so and some things can get wonky.

And one more thing......the tank is looking great! Good to see you back with a high tech set up.


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

that is a very useful piece of info. Also a very good reason to live in BC ( sorry I couldn't resist).


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Mostly auto pilot as the summer begins and I'm spending a lot more time away from home.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

That's looking gorgeous!!


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## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

I'm jealous of how awesome your pink crypts are growing. Looks like you're getting things dialed in.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Looking great Quag!

What's the current dosing and water change schedule?

Any idea of how much PAR?

I have to say this tank sure has come together nicely. Lot's of interesting plants, shapes, and colors. 

Well done!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Looking great Quag!
> 
> What's the current dosing and water change schedule?
> 
> ...


Thank you! It's tough to get a good camera angle on it to fully show it off - Being a 48" long tank but only 18" tall and setting the camera lighting to get most of what I see in person. 

Schedule is:

1 x weekly 68% water change - 30 gallons of 44 gallons total system. 

30 gallon RO water targeted to:

25ppm Ca
12.5ppm Mg
12.5 NO3
10ppm PO4
25ppm K

PAR is anyone's guess. 5 x 54W T5-HO

Front - Back: 

Zoomed Florasun
2700K
420nm
660nm
Full Spectrum White + UV

Lots of species STILL haven't grown in fully - 2 Bacopa species, Hottonia palustris, crypt petchii 'pink', Ludwigia arcuata to name a few. 
The heat + Met14 dosing melted back Hygrophila araguaia, L. repens 'Rubin' and a couple more. 

My largest struggle at the moment is getting the groupings to keep up with one another. Is seems I'm always trimming back a few groupings but leaving others and the tank never looks filled in. That is my current goal.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> My largest struggle at the moment is getting the groupings to keep up with one another. Is seems I'm always trimming back a few groupings but leaving others and the tank never looks filled in. That is my current goal.


LOL I have been saying the same thing for years! I have an idea in my mind of how it will look with everything filled in, but that never quite happens the way I hope.

And my guess is that 5 x T5HO over a shallow tank like that is HIGH light.

Thanks for providing the dosing. I keep a list of the dosing of most everyone I know. Maybe it's time to revive the share my dosing thread again sometime.

And I like that you are listing target dosing!! I thought my battle for that fell mostly on deaf ears.


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## P.Isley (Feb 18, 2020)

Greggz said:


> LOL I have been saying the same thing for years! I have an idea in my mind of how it will look with everything filled in, but that never quite happens the way I hope.
> 
> And my guess is that 5 x T5HO over a shallow tank like that is HIGH light.
> 
> ...


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## P.Isley (Feb 18, 2020)

Dosing thread... yes please! 😊


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## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

@Quagulator I'm also curious about your estimated par levels. Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Light Calculator . Not super exact but at least something to go by.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Econde said:


> @Quagulator I'm also curious about your estimated par levels. Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Light Calculator . Not super exact but at least something to go by.


Here you go 

Because I'm using very colourful bulbs I doubt that it's accurate, likely 125-150 I would "assume"


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## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

Quagulator said:


> Here you go
> 
> Because I'm using very colourful bulbs I doubt that it's accurate, likely 125-150 I would "assume"


Definitely not very accurate but nice to know some numbers nonetheless. I thought that colored bulbs push more par than the "whiter" bulbs due to it being closer to the spectrum plants needed? I'm using similar spectrum bulbs to yours.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Tank is looking great man!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

I noticed the tank was looking above average last week or so. A few picky plants were showing some good growth spurts and the compliant species were trucking along like normal. The only thing that I found was my micro mix had run out for roughly a week. This has me thinking I should be running a little less micro's - might be something to try out. 

My auto doser runs for 47 seconds on it's highest speed for a total dose of 25mL's. I turned it down to 30 seconds and I'll see how things look after a few weeks. I'll try and get an updated spreadsheet with the ppm's but no promises. 

I've also got some algae poking back up. I'm not going to go the chemical route this time around, I melted back a couple species that I would like to keep around. I think a solid filter cleaning is in order. I'll be the first to admit I have not been following my own advice of cleaning the filters regularly - I think we are all guilty of that occasionally 

I think the recent stint of me being busy / lazy when it comes to filter cleanings solidifies my dream of a sump for my next setup - eventually. 

PO4 was between 1-2ppm at weeks end. I may end up giving the tank a 2 or 3ppm shot mid week and see what happens. Still going in at a 10ppm full tank volume front load shot. 

I rearranged some plants - they are finally growing in and showing their characteristics in my tank, so I cam better place them. I think I'll need 2 different mid-ground plants. I'm thinking non-fussy species like crypts or Bacopa compact. 

Full tank after rearrange:










A little later in the photo-period:










Please note the Crypt Flamingo colour is a little enhanced in my photo's - getting the rest of the tank to look more like it does in person causes the Flamingo pink to really pop. 




























Algae:


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Sump, sump, sump, sump, sump!!!!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Your comments on micros are interesting.

I know Joe has had some recent success lowering micros a bit. And I am experimenting now with the same thing.

Will be curious to see how this goes after more time.

And of course tank is looking great too!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Your comments on micros are interesting.
> 
> I know Joe has had some recent success lowering micros a bit. And I am experimenting now with the same thing.
> 
> ...


Thank you. 

It'm not lowering them by much, I didn't want to go too drastic at first. 

Nothing major, the tank just seemed slightly more alive when the micro container was empty. 


Phil Edwards said:


> Sump, sump, sump, sump, sump!!!!


Not on this tank, but I'm about 95% sure I want to on my next large tank. I've even got a few designs drawn up when I was bored!


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

those colours are simply amazing! So intense.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

xrayguy said:


> those colours are simply amazing! So intense.


Thank you! 

The Crypt flamingo is a little more intense in the pictures because of the camera settings I am using: To get the rest of the tank to look more like it does in person, the settings I use make the flamingo really pop for some reason. 

They are still a very rich pink colour, just not quite as much as the photo's above.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

A few pictures and a short video. Don't mind the dirty glass / algae on the glass, this week's maintenance will take care of that!  

Note the one picture of the Crypt Flamingo is closer to what I see in person.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Quick preview of what I'm up to today. I bought my dream house, immediately had to fly out on a vacation we booked months ago, was busy getting things set up at my new place when we got home, and finally I am moving the tank today. The tank has been without a water change for almost 3 weeks, and hasn't had a trim in 3 weeks. 

Before I left on vacation:










On vacation, my first time to the Rockies:



















2 weeks without a trim:










3 weeks without a trim (today):










36" + Cabomba! 

Anyway, more updates and pictures after the move is complete, wish me luck!


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

Quagulator said:


>


Lake Louise?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

rzn7z7 said:


> Lake Louise?


Moraine Lake  20 minutes or so from Lake Louise


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Move went very smooth. Was loaded in my truck within 1 hour, and had water in it again after another hour. 

Thinned out a few plant species I wasn't happy with, did a slight rearrange. I will see how the grouping look after everything has rebounded. 

I think I also hooked up my RO unit wrong. I'm pretty sure I had it bypassing the RO membrane itself and only had it going through the sediment and carbon filters. TDS was 388 ppm or so after remineralizing. 

Straight from the tap TDS is around 200 ppm. Fish seemed okay for the most part. I have the RO unit dismantled at the moment anyway while I reno the room it will be mounted in. 

Anyway, here are some pictures:





































More pictures to come as the tank clears up!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

So how is the tank move going now? Still smooth? Any bumps?

Looking forward to seeing the next update.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> So how is the tank move going now? Still smooth? Any bumps?
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the next update.


Tank really took off once I thinned it back out / the dust settled from moving. 

There are a couple species I'm looking to replace in the near future, but for now things are growing very well.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Long post ahead:


I noticed the fish seemed very "off" ever since the move. My first thought was the stress and slight change of water parameters, but that was a few weeks ago now.

I did some weekly maintenance and noticed the water was very cold, the house temp was 67 degrees or so, and it's noticeably cooler in the basement (where the tank is), so I figured the fish were quite cold. I added an inline heater and slowly brought the temp up to 74 or so.

A few days later and a lot of fish are were noticeable sick and stressed out - showing colour loss and damaged tissue. The water had a nasty cloud to it too. I started treating for bacteria and fungus immediately, and swapped over my UV sterilizer from my RO storage to the tank... In doing so I noticed I had forgotten to plug it in, so my latest water change must have been with water loaded with bacterial growth.

Algae was a mess too ever since bumping the tank temp. I started with a fairly high Met14 dose which probably hurt the livestock even more. I have since cut it way back.

I'll continue to dose meds for a week along with the UV sterilizer, and I'll ensure the UV sterilizer works for a few days in the RO storage prior to another water change.

Pics to follow up after I tackle this mess.

Next steps for this tank:

Sell / donate the chili rasboras and celestial pearl danios after ensuring they are in good health.
Sell / donate the picky plants that aren't enjoying my soup.
Pick up some larger fish that won't hide constantly. This should boost my interest in the tank. I haven't kept any larger fish for years now. Maybe a few species I have never kept before.
Pick up some solid, fool proof plants to replace the picky species. Some good solid growers that still look nice and won't fuss too much.

I'm hoping these changes will help keep my motivation high. Entering the fall / winter months will help too.

Any stocking suggestions?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> Any stocking suggestions?


I've heard people say Rainbow fish are a perfect compliment to a planted tank......just sayin'.....😄


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> I've heard people say Rainbow fish are a perfect compliment to a planted tank......just sayin'.....😄


LOL they are certainly on the list of species I'll be on the lookout for. 

I gave the option to the 'missus and she (of course) immediately picked discus. I had to explain yet again, this is just not the tank nor time for me to tackle them just yet. She still thinks I'm being dramatic about it. 

I'm thinking some angels, I'll keep my eye out for adults, larger, mature rainbows and possibly a handful of larger tetras. I'll probably top off my oto numbers while I'm in the mood for new livestock. 

First thing is first, get the fish I have back in to good health.


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## P.Isley (Feb 18, 2020)

Sorry about your fish. I’m interested in the UV sterilizer on your RO tank… why is that necessary? I would have though that at only a few TDS there wouldn’t be much in the water to worry about feeding bacteria. I haven’t had any problems with mine yet (only a 55 gallon drum that I turn over at least 1.25x per week due to water changes), but I might double storage capacity with a few tank upgrades and possibly an AWC system. Is a UV filter something I ought to be factoring into any future set up? 

For something different and bigger fish - maybe a small school of denison barbs? I have a species tank of more than a dozen in my Dutch plant tank. They are really stunning. Tightly schooling with adults about 5 inches long. They are omnivores so pick nicely at algae, leave healthy plant tissue alone and don’t dig up anything.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

P.Isley said:


> Sorry about your fish. I’m interested in the UV sterilizer on your RO tank… why is that necessary?


I was going to ask the same thing. I don't use UV with my RO, and don't know of anyone who does. What makes you think there was a bacterial build up? 

Could it be more simple and the tank move disrupted the bio field? Did you test for ammonia? The reference to "cloudy" sounds like a typical bacterial bloom. Could it be the tank just needs more time to mature??


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

P.Isley said:


> Sorry about your fish. I’m interested in the UV sterilizer on your RO tank… why is that necessary?





Greggz said:


> I was going to ask the same thing. I don't use UV with my RO, and don't know of anyone who does. What makes you think there was a bacterial build up?
> Could it be more simple and the tank move disrupted the bio field? Did you test for ammonia? The reference to "cloudy" sounds like a typical bacterial bloom. Could it be the tank just needs more time to mature??


I guess I should have explained myself earlier. 

When I first set up my RO station (when I set this tank up) I had really, really cloudy water and the RO water had a slight musky, wild smell to it. My incoming water was 580ppm TDS and my water post RO was 17ppm. I could live with that, but it must have been enough to allow some bacteria to grow. I installed the UV sterilizer into the tank for a few days, and then into the RO storage and the cloudiness went away within 2 water changes. Ever since then, I had just been running the UV unit for a few hours each day on a timer as redundancy. 

When I set it up at my new house, I had mixed up 2 lines on the RO unit, so the first batch of water I made up was basically straight tapwater. I used 30 gallons of the 40 or so my storage container holds, then topped it back up with RO. So there would have been plenty of TDS in the storage container for bacteria to grow. 

Maybe I don't need the UV, maybe I just need to circulate / aerate the water more. But the UV sterilizer's pump is perfect for the size of storage container I have, so I have just always used it. 

Update on the tank, the fish are much happier 3 days into the treatment, the water is still a little cloudy, but much better than before. 50% of the algae outbreak is a nice bright red colour, so I'll leave the Met14 on the reduced dose. 

I did not test for ammonia although I probably should have. At my pH any ammonia would be ammonium / not harmful to the fish... still no excuse for me not to test. Basement took on some water with 3 days of heavy rain so I had other issues to deal with 

I like denison barbs, that's a good shout out. I kept them 10 or so years ago (you can make out a few of them in this pic. There's a few rainbows in there too for you @Greggz


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

1 week later and the water has mostly cleared up. I'll swap the UV sterilizer into the RO storage and let it run for a few days before I perform a water change.
Fish are seemingly back to health, I'll finish out the med schedule as per the bottles directions. I think I only lost a few chili rasbora, however my female Apisto was in rough shape, I haven't seen her in a day or so.

Plants are bouncing back nice too from the algae. Most of which is now completely gone. Don't mind the soda water in the photo, I was messing with the surface skimmer and the corresponding filter was gulping a bunch of air / misting it back into the tank.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Water change, trim and a rearrange - ready for some new flora / fauna. I stopped by a LFS yesterday, nothing really jumped out at me. I'll try another tonight.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Big reset on the tank, it needed it. A few large water changes put this tank back on schedule. The weather / this time of year really helps with tank husbandry. Trimmed / thinned / removed a lot of species. Picked up a few very green plant species to contrast the yellows / reds I have going on. Hopefully in 2 weeks or so everything will have settled in. I went with some no fuss species, so far they are transitioning from emersed to submerged growth. Changed the 3000K bulb for another bulb with lots of reds to try and help with the yellowy tinge.

Picked up some fish too. 3 angels, I've never kept them before plus this was her next best choice apart from discus. I'll grab another 1 or 2 whenever I can find them. 2 marble yellows and a black long finned. I'll grab a blue / silver and an orange koi / marble if I can track one down.

2 Glossolepis incisus and 2 Melanotaenia fluviatilis of decent size / colour. I'll track down some boesemani and Melanotaenia lacustris. I really would like to find some melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi.

Going with a small school of cherry barbs as well, I've never kept them either, and I want to pickup a rainbow shark because I used to keep them all the time. Oh, and I need to grab my male apisto a female or two. The female I had unfortunately didn't pull through the bacteria / infection I went through.

It sounds like a lot of fish, but they will be small enough to fit this tank for now. When they get larger I'll either rehome them or it will force my into a larger tank


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

i dunno. I think green is over rated. Red orange and yellow is where it's at man!!!!
And the fish are beautiful. I really think tanks need a good balance of fish and plants.j


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Tank is looking great Quag! I love it. 

Healthy plants and Rainbows, doesn't get much better than that.

Looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Thanks all, LFS opens at 11am and I'm off for the day... Not much time left before I tuck the car away for winter so I guess I should take it for a drive and check out Bobby G's Pro Aquarium's anniversary sale


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Following along with Gregg's journal, he was posting about target dosing. I am doing the same. 

My water changes are 30 gallons each and my system holds a total of 44 gallons = 68% weekly water changes. 

I target my 30 gallons of incoming water to:

20ppm NO3
7.5ppm PO4
25ppm K
25ppm Ca
12.5ppm Mg

No idea what that would be in terms of 50% weekly WC's, I'm just reporting my numbers. 

One thing I've always noticed about other members tanks that are very successful is the Ca:Mg ratio is more towards 3:1 / 4:1 and mine is around 2:1. 

I think I'm going to adjust my numbers to go along with the 3:1 strategy and see what happens. 
My plants are doing about the best they can with my current setup, I can't get them much better, but there is room to improve, so I think it's best I start tinkering with the gH to find possible trends.

My micro's are also slightly reduced compared to other members tanks. I did this because my auto doser ran dry without me noticing a while back, and a lot of plant's REALLY woke up. This had me thinking I was over doing it with the micro's so I dropped my dose. Certain plants rebelled, but others woke up. So it's a coin toss. I like where my plants are at right now, so I think I'll stick to my current strategy with micro's and find some other species to replace the slacking plant species. 

I run a total of 5 T5-HO bulbs over this tank. It is 18" tall, 20" from the bulbs to substrate. 5 hours of total light per day. 15 minutes of the back 2 bulbs on, then all 5 are on for 4 1/2 hours, then 15 minutes with only the back 2 bulbs on. 

From back to front:

Full Spectrum + UV
660nm
420nm
630nm
ZooMed FloraSun

CO2 is set 2.5 hours before the lights come on right up to 15 minutes before the first set of lights shut off. 25cc's / minute roughly 1.1 - 1.2 drop in pH. I couldn't keep up with calibrating my pH pen and doing loads of testing, but that is where I remember things settled out at. Occasionally I'll see some of the threadfin rainbows gasping, but it's very mild and it's only every once in a while. 

Last note, I lost a male Melanotaenia fluviatilis which is a bummer, the 2 I had were the best I've ever seen personally. No idea where he went, I couldn't find a carcass in the tank, couldn't find it out of the tank and I couldn't find it stuck in the lights. Maybe he flopped around underneath the stand. I don't have a cat that could have found him either. It's a mystery. I'll have to keep an eye out for another one to replace him.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> Following along with Gregg's journal, he was posting about target dosing. I am doing the same.
> 
> My water changes are 30 gallons each and my system holds a total of 44 gallons = 68% weekly water changes.
> 
> ...


Target dosing at 20ppm NO3, 7.5ppm PO4, 25ppm K is the same as 10ppm NO3, 3.75ppm PO4, 12.5ppm K at 50% water change.

FWIW my micros are at 0.40 weekly, as low as they have ever been. What level are you at now??

Have you ever checked your PAR level? Would be curious what those 5 T5HO are producing at substrate.

I don't think the ratio of Ca:Mg means as much as the level. I've run it at 3:1 and 2:1 and did not notice much difference. But raising them both did change things. But I do think running at least 3:1 and not 4:1 makes a difference. Plants do like Mg and most under dose it. 

And one time I was rummaging around behind my tank stand trying to find something I dropped. I found three old dried up carcasses. Same as you could never figure out where they were, but found out that day!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> FWIW my micros are at 0.40 weekly, as low as they have ever been. What level are you at now??
> 
> Have you ever checked your PAR level? Would be curious what those 5 T5HO are producing at substrate.


I'm at 0.38 weekly for micros assuming my auto doser is staying within "close enough" calibration. 

PAR I have not measured, according to Rotala Butterfly's estimates I'm pushing 200 PAR, but with my colourful bulbs I doubt it's up that high. Still high light nonetheless. 

GDA can creep up if I don't scrape it, but at the moment it's very mild. I've been a bit lazy and haven't scrapped the back glass, and against the black background it's fairly noticeable in a still image, but in person you hardly notice it. Fish and plants easily take all the focus. 

Filter intakes / outputs are where it's on pretty thick, so I've implemented an H2O2 spraying regime every water change, but it's not doing much, so I'll go with a Met14 + H2O2 spraying each water change and see how I make out.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Full tank shot right after turning the lights on, the plants are all still folded up and "asleep". 
Funny how as the bulbs are warming up, it plays tricks on my phone's camera:











And now... A little sneak peak with I'm working on with all my "Spare Parts" :


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## cbnlibra (Oct 20, 2019)

nice tank!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

As the new title states, I've got my 40g breeder set up and running now. Here are the specs:

Standard 40g breeder named my "Spare Parts Tank" 
36"L x 18"D x 16"T

Total system volume - 40 gallons (measured to the gallon upon fill up / set up). 
Substrate - Calcined Montmorillonite Clay.
Hardscape - Driftwood / Seiryu Stone.
Lighting (back to front)- 39w Zoomed FloraSun T5-HO, Fluval Fresh & Plant 2.0, RGB LED's all mounted 6" from open-top tank trim. 
Filtration - Marineland C-220 w/ surface skimmer & spray bar. Sponges, floss, bio-balls, Seachem Matrix.
Water - 100% RO, target dosed @ 30ppm Ca, 10ppm Mg, 15ppm NO3, 7ppm PO4, 25ppm K, 0.5dKH. 
Fertilization - Osmocote+ under substrate, Osmocote+ tabs, front loaded target dosed macros, micro's dosed 3x weekly using one of Joe's latest "standard" mixes. Nothing crazy. Honestly, I might even simply run the Seachem Flourish Comp. + Trace combo. 
CO2 - Maxed out paintball setup running a moderate amount of CO2, not pushing any limits here, just want to keep the low tech plants thriving. 

Plants:
Low tech, lots of crypts, java ferns, anubias, Staurogyne sp. porto velho. Might go with a single, smaller sword species.
Fish - TBD
Inverts - Unlikely

Water changes - Either a single 50-60% weekly or 2 x 40-50% weekly changes. 
Photo period - 5 hours with the T5 + RGB LED's with a 1.5 hour blast from the Fluval 2.0. 

I called this my spare parts tank because I used all my spare "fish tank crap" (as she would call it) to set up this tank. The only thing I had to buy was the wood / paint for the DIY light mounts and a new inline heater (the room these tanks are in is very cold). 

Anyways, here are some photo's with all the lights on:




























And finally, a FTS on the 45g Long - Overdue for a trim.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Some Photo's


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Nice! This is a very successful reboot. Tank is filling in nicely.

What do you think are keys so far??


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

quag, the reboot looks great. and your "spare parts" tank looks better than most peoples regular tanks. Super jealous man.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Nice! This is a very successful reboot. Tank is filling in nicely.
> 
> What do you think are keys so far??


Thank you. 

Honestly, the key was elbow grease, and by that I specifically mean:

Large, water changes at regular intervals. Since the "reboot" I have not missed a water change by more than 1 day. My incoming water is within 10ppm of the outgoing waste water TDS, and my parameters have been consistent every week. Only the last 2 water changes have I changed anything, and it's only been slightly more Ca and slightly less Mg - nothing drastic. 

Regular uprooting and trimming. Almost every water change I am uprooting, trimming, and replanting the tops only on 50% of the stem species. I have put most of my focus on trimming and replanting the tops in an aesthetic manner. I trim to the length needed to blend nicely along with the plants I did not trim. 

Plant / fish selection. Having plants that like my soup keeps them looking good, and avoids me stressing over a single species that is lagging. Having fish that are interesting to not only me, but friends / family that view the tank also. This keeps motivation high and keeps the tank more interesting to spend time around. 

And finally, ease of maintenance. I highly recommend to anyone with a tank larger than 10 gallons to have a water change system set up. Having my storage totes tucked away in a utility closet, 25' of tubing and a large pump tp transfer water makes keeping up on maintenance easy, effortless and enjoyable. The more enjoyable it is to change water, the more often you'll do it, and the easier it is to focus more on cleaning glass, trimming plants, spraying down equipment etc. instead of lugging buckets around. 



xrayguy said:


> quag, the reboot looks great. and your "spare parts" tank looks better than most peoples regular tanks. Super jealous man.


Thank you! The spare parts tank is coming along nicely. I really took my time setting it up. My other half was getting frustratingly impatient with me over it, but I knew I had to take my time. I have a heater coming on Monday, however it hasn't even shipped from over seas yet, so I doubt it will be here in time. The 40B is at 64 degrees or so, and the plants seem so lethargic. 

I want to buy a new heater for temp. matching my water change water, I think I'll grab one in the mean time use it on that tank until the inline heater shows up.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

LOL yes one of the keys to a successful planted tank is good old fashioned elbow grease. It's the one thing the best tanks have in common.

And I agree 100% with making water changes as easy as possible. The easier it is, the more you will do them, and the better off the tank will be.

Also very interesting your pre and post water change TDS. It is the same for me, pre and post almost the same. If it were to be off by a lot, I would be searching for why.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Been a while, 

Happy new year to all! 

Not much has changed since my last update, auto pilot for the most part. Good news is my water changes have still been consistent and regular trimmings / maintenance are occurring. 

Essentially I'm just checking in and letting you all know I'm still here 

I'm starting to experiment with some new species. Finding a good "corner plant" has been a struggle of mine. For example, a lot of plant's start to "lean" from the corners or other's aren't sturdy enough to avoid getting sucked into the filter intakes. Anyone have any suggestions? 










As for the 40B, I let it ghost cycle for 2 months, performed 2 back to back 50% water changes and tossed in 10 tetras - I will monitor them closely to ensure the tank is fish ready. Pictures of that tank to come shortly.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Glad to see an update and things look like they are going very well.

As to the corners I've always liked something green there. Widens the field of vision and makes the tank look larger.

Here's a few that might work.

Limnophila Chinesis - Grows straight up and stalks get thick doubt it would lean.

Hygrophila Balsamica - Another thick stalked plant and provides a different interesting leaf shape.

Nymphoides Hydrophylla 'Taiwan' - Super easy grower and again offers a different leaf shape.

Syngonanthus Belem - Grows as tall as you will let it. Propagates easily and is a no drama plant.

Limnophila Rugosa - Another easy sturdy grower


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Here is the spare parts tank. I picked up 10 cardinal tetras and they seem to be doing good after a few days. This tank will receive a 50% waterchange 1x per week - incoming water target dosed to:

15ppm NO3
7ppm PO4
25ppm K
0.5dKH
30ppm Ca
10ppm Mg

Micro's are dosed 3x weekly at half the rate (0.3ppm weekly total) 

Plants are doing fairly well, slow and steady growth. I had light very limited since I started up, went through a diatom bloom and I had a clogged up needle valve from water back flowing into it, so CO2 was inconstant for a while too. Added an extra check valve and some longer tubing between the valve and the bubble counter and it seems to have worked. No pH drop measurements just yet - will try that today perhaps. 

Don't mind the weird blue ish background colours, my camera doesn't like the spillover light from my other tank,


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Just checking in with some photo's of the fish in the 45g long during a water change and the new fish in my 40 breeder. 






































































































The 40 breeder is such a joy of a tank. A few large water changes helped reset everything, plants are growing slow and steady but looking very healthy, absolutely no algae, clear water and is has very very calm nature to it, especially now with the discus. Moderate CO2 levels, moderate light with a high light burst and "easier" plants is a nice combo.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Large trim + rearrange. Note the Anubias nana, I think it has overgrown itself and choking itself out. Flow is starting to slow down too from the filters, I think next week's maintenance requires a filter clean out.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

A few hiccups over the past few weeks that all of us have / will experience in our aquaria careers. I'm just going to spit out my thoughts here below:

45 gallon long:

Lost 2 angels and my male apisto randomly all within 24 hours of each other. The rest of the fish seemed absolutely normal and healthy as can be. I did not test for ammonia or anything, maybe it was just a coincidence / poor genetics. 

40 gallon breeder:

Discus were not eating, and they are locked onto an open corner at the rear of the tank. I figured it was from lack of cover and brighter lights so I bought some frogbit to give them some cover / filter out some of the light. All was well until I noticed a few of the cardinal tetra were just loaded with Ick. I found this strange because the temp is 85/86 degrees and I haven't added new fish in a long time - must have had a few spores on the frogbit that lived. But I thought higher temps stops ick development? 

Anyways, I bumped temp up to 89 degrees and added my UV sterilizer to the tank. I have some salt and API Super Ick Cure but I'm trigger shy to use these on the discus / plants. So far (4 days) only the tetra are affected, the rams / cory's / discus are not showing any signs. 

I've taken the precaution and have started a Melafix / Pimafix treatment "just in case" - I know this does nothing against ick, but it's precaution and these meds state they are safe for plants and the most sensitive freshwater fish so why not. 

I've sourced some grindal and white worm cultures to hopefully get these discus eating more. They will pick away at frozen blood worms sometimes, but only 1 or 2 at a time. 

I think I might get rid of the tetra's and keep the focus on the discus more. I'd prefer to cure them before giving them away - I might setup a quarantine storage tote or something and treat them in that with meds if the heat / UV sterilizer isn't working. 

Doing all of this includes large regular water changes of course. Forgot to mention that above. 

Anyways, just thought I would share my thinking process. I hope everyone else's tanks are thriving and healthy!


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Yikes, when it rains it pours. 

High temps speed the ich life cycle. They go from egg to free swimming to attached to the fish and as far as I know are only affected by ich-x/ other medications while they are free swimming. So you can treat cooler temp tanks for a week and the ich will still come back because the eggs were incubating for the entire treatment period. 

In warm tanks, the entire ich life cycle is 2-3 days so you will get more complete eradication in a quicker amount of time. The warm temps alone are not detrimental to ich.

For what it's worth I've used ich-x in a low tech planted tank and saw no ill effect on plants. And if the cardinals have it the rest of the fish do too, just potentially not visibly. It's probably best to treat the entire tank.


Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk


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## Le duke (Jun 29, 2021)

What is the total stocking on your 45 long?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Le duke said:


> What is the total stocking on your 45 long?


2 medium sized discus. 
9 cardinal tetra. 
4 very small cory sterbai
2 small german blue ram


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## Le duke (Jun 29, 2021)

Quagulator said:


> 2 medium sized discus.
> 9 cardinal tetra.
> 4 very small cory sterbai
> 2 small german blue ram


Nice. Good collection of warm water fish. I've always liked GBR and C. sterbai but my tank runs way too cold for them, at 76.

What about the 40B? Those rainbows look great.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Le duke said:


> Nice. Good collection of warm water fish. I've always liked GBR and C. sterbai but my tank runs way too cold for them, at 76.
> 
> What about the 40B? Those rainbows look great.


Whoops, I posted the stocking of the 40B (discus etc.)

The 45g Long:

12 small rainbows
1 orange honey gourami male
3 congo tetra
6 threadfin rainbows
2 small angels


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

A few pics and a small update.

45g Long is running on all cylinders - I'm currently experimenting on some new plant species to see who likes my soup and who doesn't.

40g Breeder seems to have cleared the ick for now. I removed the UV sterilizer but have kept the temp up at 88 degrees. I have a grindal worm and a white worm culture on the go now to help with the picky discus, however they are slowly exploring more of the tank and eating more of what I am offering. I moved over some of the small angles I have to hopefully coax the discus to feel for confident in the tank. Also note how barren the plants look - I have split up the anubias nana from the 45g Long and just placed it all over to let it heal up / promote new growth before I eventually tuck it into the hardscape. The rest of the plants are so tiny because that's all I could find at LFS's: all of their plant orders have included such small plants / portions and because this is a low tech tank, things are progressing slowly. Most of the plants I have in this tank will get very large in time, but for the moment it looks empty.

Also, a little behind the scene's photo:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I admire you going with Discus. I've thought it about it over the years but don't think I am grown up enough yet.

And the Rainbow tank is looking great! What is going on with that one these days??


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> I admire you going with Discus. I've thought it about it over the years but don't think I am grown up enough yet.


It was all thanks to my girlfriend who completely distanced herself from my tank unless I got "bigger" "pretty" fish. So I made the mistake of introducing her to discus and well... here I am with some. I've always wanted to take the leap, and figured I should just do it and be done (with a little help from her of course).

Total will be 4 eventually in that tank, moderate light and moderate CO2 eventually (when I get around to buying a new cylinder). Low tech plants, lots of O+ tabs and moderate water column dosing. I'll go more into detail on it once I get the plants thriving. Lower tech tanks like to take their time filling in and developing, but they eventually thrive, I just have to be patient.




Greggz said:


> And the Rainbow tank is looking great! What is going on with that one these days??


I suppose I'm overdue for an overview of it:

45g Long - 48"x12"x18" holding 44 gallons of actual water volume

5 x 48" 54w T5-HO front to back:
420nm
620nm
460nm
660nm
Full Spec. + UV

2 x 2" computer fans pushing air into the hood

7 hour photo period
1.2 drop in pH from CO2 - 25cc's / min.
Griggs reactor
Hydor 200w inline heater - tank at 76 degrees
68% weekly water changes
1 x monthly glass cleaning
Weekly spray down of intakes / outflows with 3% H2O2 + Met14
Never once gravel vacuumed
Cleaned out the filters 1 time 6 months ago (tank is 1.5 years old)
Course sponge + filter floss only in all 3 filters.

Incoming RO target dosed to:
20ppm NO3
25ppm K
9ppm PO4
30ppm Ca
10ppm Mg
0 dKH

27L ADA Aquasoil V2

2 x Eheim 2217
1 x Ehein 2215 (with 2217 impeller)
1 canister filter intake surface skimmer
2 normal canister filter intakes
2 normal canister filter outflows
1 spray bar canister filter outflow pointed 45 degrees upward at the water surface



Micro's (auto doser) :

Based on total water volume (44 gallons)ppm Per DoseTotal Weekly
ppmB ( H3BO3)0.015000.10500Cu (CuSO4.5H2O)0.000860.00602Fe (DTPA Fe-11%)0.057100.39970Fe Gluconate (Flourish Iron)0.028600.20020Mn (MnSO4.H2O)0.014000.09800Mo (Na2MoO4*2H2O)0.000500.00350Ni (NiSO4.6H2O)0.001420.00994Zn (ZnSO4.7H2O)0.010000.07000Trigger Biostimulant0.125mL0.875mL


Fish:
12 cherry barb
15 maybe? emerald rasbora
3 oto cat
8 threadfin rainbows
1 rainbow shark
1 male honey gourami
2 male boesemani
2 male turquoise
2 male melanotaenia parkinsoni
1 male melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi
2 male melanotaenia splendida
2 male glossolepis incises
1 male glossolepis dorityi
1 Melanotaenia Trifasciata (unsure of sex, unsure if it is this species)
1 male Melanotaenia fasinensis (unsure if it is this species)

Feed 1x per day a variety of:
Omega One Colour Enhancing flake
Omega One Colour Enhancing micro pellet
Omega One Veggie Kelp flake
Fluval Bug Bites

Occasional "treats":
Omega One freeze dried bloodworms
Omega One frozen blood worms
Hikari Frozen mysis shrimp

Moving forward I will also be treating them with live grindal and white worms from my cultures.

Plants:
Limnophila sessiliflora
Rotala macrandra
Bacopa caroliniana
Rotala macrandra ‘Mini’
Cabomba piauhyensis
Ludwigia palustris
Ludwigia repens ‘Rubin’
Alternanthera reineckii
Lagenandra meeboldii ‘Red’
Lobelia cardinalis
Crypt lutea ‘Hobbit’
Crpyt parva
Crpyt Flamingo
Crypt petchii 'pink'
Crypt beckettii
Hygrophila Araguaia
Blyxa japonica
Gratiola viscidula
Staurogyne sp. porto velho
Echinodorus ‘Red Flame’



Currently experimenting with:
Tonina fluviatilis
Staurogyne repens
Pogostemon erectus
Pogostemon helferi
Barclaya longifolia

Current long term plan is to "downsize" to 1 tank again, combining the best of both tanks into one tank. Probably going to take the plunge and join the 6' tank club with a high light, moderate CO2, scaped setup with a nice mix of flowery species and good' ol' hardie species - main focus will be on ease of maintenance because by the time I get around to that long term goal, babies, house reno's and other major life events are highly likely LOL 

If I missed any info / detail on something you are curious on, let me know.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> It was all thanks to my girlfriend who completely distanced herself from my tank unless I got "bigger" "pretty" fish. So I made the mistake of introducing her to discus and well... here I am with some. I've always wanted to take the leap, and figured I should just do it and be done (with a little help from her of course).
> 
> Total will be 4 eventually in that tank, moderate light and moderate CO2 eventually (when I get around to buying a new cylinder). Low tech plants, lots of O+ tabs and moderate water column dosing. I'll go more into detail on it once I get the plants thriving. Lower tech tanks like to take their time filling in and developing, but they eventually thrive, I just have to be patient.
> 
> ...


Nice update!!

I l like the dosing sounds like a good levels of everything. 

I'll be curious how the new plants do. Tonina and Barclaya are easy. Just don't move the Barclaya once you plant it. But the others can be very hit or miss for me. 

Everything is really looking great. Nice mix of plants and nice layout. Good work!!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Nice update!!
> 
> I l like the dosing sounds like a good levels of everything.
> 
> ...


Thank you, it seems to be a good mix that a variety of plants like. 

If I wanted to really take the tank to the next level I could up my maintenance and practice what I preach - Clean the substrate with every water change, clean out the filters regularity, push CO2 just a little bit higher and toss any plant that I'm too stubborn let go (if it's not thriving) + pick the plants that do really well in my water. 

The Barclaya I expected to plant and not see for a few months while it reestablished itself. I planted it in a center spot with lots of room for it to grow without me having to move it. Much to my surprise, it started shooting out large, colourful leaves immediately. 

Tonina never has liked my water, but this time I found some submersed grown portions, a few have started shooting out leaves do I hope I can get them to stick. I want to replace the Bacopa c. with a different bright green plant, hopefully this will do the trick. 

The others I'm just trying again because they were available for cheap. I'm still looking for a simple medium height green plant, probably Bacopa 'compact'. 

All in good time!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

@Greggz or anyone else with rainbow knowledge - could you give your best guess at the species of these 2 individuals? Thanks....


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

It's really difficult to say. The lighting or white balance seems a bit "blurple" so hard to see true colors.

But in general top one looks like a typical young male Melanotaenia Trifasciata. Collection point could likely be Goyder River, but there are so many in the hobby it's hard to tell at this age. 

The bottom one is interesting. You mentioned Melanotaenia Fasinensis. I've never seen that one available here in the states. Is someone breeding them there? At first glance it's not something I have seen before, so who knows could be the Fasinensis. But could also be a hybrid as well. 

Where did you get these fish? From a breeder? LFS? Either one should know what species they are dealing with.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Where did you get these fish? From a breeder? LFS? Either one should know what species they are dealing with.


I'm no expert photographer lol

I'm thinking the bottom one is some sort of hybrid. The LFS I bought that one from had so many species mixed throughout all of their rainbow tanks, the owner had no clue... It looked cool so I bought him 

The top one I bought from a LFS that had them properly labelled, but I didn't remember which one it was. I think I have an order form berried away in the trash bin I use for my aquarium junk. Maybe I'll go sort through it and see what I can find.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> I'm no expert photographer lol
> 
> I'm thinking the bottom one is some sort of hybrid. The LFS I bought that one from had so many species mixed throughout all of their rainbow tanks, the owner had no clue... It looked cool so I bought him
> 
> The top one I bought from a LFS that had them properly labelled, but I didn't remember which one it was. I think I have an order form berried away in the trash bin I use for my aquarium junk. Maybe I'll go sort through it and see what I can find.


The top one is likely Goyder River. It's the most common Trifasciata you would see at an LFS.

The bottom could be common hybrid commonly referred to as a "Crossing Rainbow".

It will be easier to tell as they mature.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Greggz said:


> The top one is likely Goyder River. It's the most common Trifasciata you would see at an LFS.
> 
> The bottom could be common hybrid commonly referred to as a "Crossing Rainbow".
> 
> It will be easier to tell as they mature.


I think you are right. 

I couldn't track down the order forms from either LFS so I guess it's a waiting game until they mature some more. I don't mind. 


On another note - Bad luck continues with the discus tank. The inline heater I had crapped out, partially my fault, it was a cheap brand. I figured because it was the exact same design as the SunSun and they seem to be a "reliable" budget brand, it would be fine. I stuck my hand into the tank to plant a bunch of new plants I bought and it was freezing cold. Checked the thermostat and the tank was a brisk 64 degrees. I grabbed my spare heaters I use for my water change mixing storage and slowly raised the temps back up to 86 degrees. The discus were not doing well in the cold water, it looked like they weren't going to make it - for now they seem back to normal thank goodness. 

After the tank was up to temp, I then ran into another problem. I removed the 2 smaller heaters (150w and 200w) and left the brand new Eheim Jager 250w heater in the tank. It claims it's good for tanks up to 159 gallons, so in reality probably tanks 50-60 gallons. This tank holding 40 gallons of water it should be fine to maintain the temp at 86. Wrong. 

3 days straight and the heater has never turned off or got it up to temp. It cannot get the tank over 84 degrees. I then assumed it was calibrated wrong, so I set the calibration arrow at 84 degrees and turned it up some more to 86 degrees, left it overnight and no change. 

The heater is working, it is extremely hot to the touch and I can see "waves" of hot water raising off the heater. I played around with placement within the tank, no change. I closed off some doors and opened some other furnace vents to try and get the room temp a little warmer as this can be the only reason why a correctly sized heater cannot keep the tank up to temp. I used to have a 50 gallon warm water tank with the same heater and it had no issue keeping the tank at 84 degrees. 

Anyone else also think I need a larger heater? room temp is 64-66 degrees in the winter. For reference, my Hydor 200w inline heater has no issues keeping 44 gallons of water in the mid / high 70's in the same room. 

Should I go with a 500w inline heater of the same cheap brand that broke on me?
No stores this side of the border has a 300w Hydor inline heater in stock. 
Should I abandon the inline heater thought and go with a quality in tank heater? I hate visible equipment in the tank. 

Sorry for the rant, I was / still am pretty worked up. I'm fairly new with relying on heaters.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

Quagulator said:


> Should I go with a 500w inline heater of the same cheap brand that broke on me?
> No stores this side of the border has a 300w Hydor inline heater in stock.
> Should I abandon the inline heater thought and go with a quality in tank heater? I hate visible equipment in the tank.


I recently built an inline heater which I'm using on a 130g tank. I don't know your comfort level with that sort of thing, but it might be worth considering.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

I think it is better to use several smaller heaters. Also i have these stick on thermometers on all my tank so i can see the temp at a glance.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

jake21 said:


> I think it is better to use several smaller heaters. Also i have these stick on thermometers on all my tank so i can see the temp at a glance.


I also have a stick on thermometer, that is how I have been assessing the temp. Not relying on the heater's thermostat. 

I agree, multiple smaller heaters are better, but I like to limit equipment in the tank. 



EmotionalFescue said:


> I recently built an inline heater which I'm using on a 130g tank. I don't know your comfort level with that sort of thing, but it might be worth considering.


I am perfectly comfortable building my own, and I did consider it. 



Overall I think I will go with a sleek, black encased larger heater to blend into the background. I am getting a refund for the heater that failed and will purchase a quality brand this time.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Okay so I'm at a loss again:

Purchased a brand new Fluval E series 300w heater - Rated for tanks up to 100 gallons. Largest heater in this model range. I liked the black look of this heater, I can barely notice it in the tank. Perfect. 

Tank settled out at 82 degrees with the 250w Eheim heater rated for tanks up to 159 gallons. 

I removed the Eheim heater, and placed the Fluval in the tank. The Fluval's thermostat matched the glass style thermostat I have in the tank, so no issue with my values. I set the Fluval's temperature to 86 degrees. 

It's been running for 8 hours and the tank has dropped to 80 degrees. I know the Fluval E series are sensitive to lower flow, but it is right next to the filter intake plus there is a gentle mass flow all around the heater - the heater has a build in "Low Flow" alert system, which is not alerting. I am confident it is not a flow issue. 

The tank is open topped with a decent amount of surface agitation. Could evaporation + open top be a large loss of heat? Enough to actively overcome both these heaters I have tried. 

The room temperature is now up to 68 degrees measured with the same glass thermometer. I am a little confused as to how a heater rated for 2.5x my water volume cannot even maintain the tank's temperature let alone raise the temperature. is the 22 degree difference really too much for a single, larger rated heater?


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

I am willing to bet your open top is the probelm. 68 degrees is gonna suck out alot of heat from 86 ( hopefully ) water. 
Try covering part of it and see if it warms up. ( ie, only leaving the back few inches open for pipes and such)


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

How are you measuring the temperature? Any chance your prope/thermometer is off? Do you have a second thermometer to confirm the temperatures your're seeing?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

rzn7z7 said:


> How are you measuring the temperature? Any chance your prope/thermometer is off? Do you have a second thermometer to confirm the temperatures your're seeing?


Measuring with a glass thermometer (one of the ones LFS sell with the suction cups on them) - Metal pellets in the base with a red liquid showing the temp. 

The fluval has an LCD display that displays temp and it matches the glass thermometer. I can also physically feel when the tank is in the upper 70's vs mid 80's. 


Regardless, I picked up a second 300w E series Fluval, and now they are both giving me the low flow alerts. I will see how the second one helps out. I stirred up some crud off the bottom and the flow in the tank is perfectly adequate.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Update - 2 Fluval 300w E series heaters cannot maintain even 82 degrees. Low Flow alerts are not on and they are actively heating 24/7. I have tried multiple heater placements, orientations and flow patterns with the same result - 80 - 81 degrees. Heaters are set for 85 degrees. 

Anyone have any recommendations? 

I'm tempted to use the sledge hammer method - buy a massively oversized heater. I really do not want to have to rebuilt my lighting brackets / mounts and buy glass to cover the top of the tank.


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## xrayguy (May 11, 2019)

can you not get 1 of those old school glass lids that just sits inside the rim?


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## Freshfishguy (Apr 7, 2021)

Quagulator said:


> Update - 2 Fluval 300w E series heaters cannot maintain even 82 degrees. Low Flow alerts are not on and they are actively heating 24/7. I have tried multiple heater placements, orientations and flow patterns with the same result - 80 - 81 degrees. Heaters are set for 85 degrees.
> 
> Anyone have any recommendations?
> 
> I'm tempted to use the sledge hammer method - buy a massively oversized heater. I really do not want to have to rebuilt my lighting brackets / mounts and buy glass to cover the top of the tank.


I used an Eheim 200W heater for my 40 breeder and it worked well. Only issue was calibrating it—that can be a PITA, but once you get it calibrated it worked great. Currently using an Oase heater for the 350 Biomaster Thermo and that works excellent too. I’d probably recommend the Oase heater as there are no calibration issues with it.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

xrayguy said:


> can you not get 1 of those old school glass lids that just sits inside the rim?


I looked however there isn't anywhere with a 36"x18" model in stock. 



Freshfishguy said:


> I used an Eheim 200W heater for my 40 breeder and it worked well. Only issue was calibrating it—that can be a PITA, but once you get it calibrated it worked great. Currently using an Oase heater for the 350 Biomaster Thermo and that works excellent too. I’d probably recommend the Oase heater as there are no calibration issues with it.


Did the 200w heat the tank into the mid 80's? I looked at those filters, they are very nice, but at $600 I can't justify it at the moment. 


I have my 2 300w E-series Fluval heaters oriented in an "L" shape, with the vertical one along side the filter intake and the horizontal one laying close to the bottom with a 6" portion of my 18" spray bar pointing down, directly at it. The remaining 12" of spray bar is 1 1/2" under the surface pointed slightly up at the water surface. 

After a few days set at 85 degrees, both heaters are working correctly, are within 0.5 degrees of one another and have the tank sitting at 85 degrees.


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## Freshfishguy (Apr 7, 2021)

Quagulator said:


> I looked however there isn't anywhere with a 36"x18" model in stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can buy the heaters that the Biomaster thermos have separately just FYI - OASE HeatUp 200. Now that I think about it, you’d probably want to go with the 300 watt heater.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Full tank shot to demonstrate where I'm going with the plant layout. You can see how it's a mix of different styles. It's no where near a Dutch scape, but it's got the groupings and colours. It's missing wood and rock like found in a nature scape, but it has smaller plants wrapped by taller plants, and broad leaved plants placed to break up site lines. The foreground is thin and needs to fill out more, but I (and I hope you can too) am starting to see how everything will eventually fill in.

I'm getting better, in my opinion, at keeping groupings in check. The next obvious step would be to use the cleaner groupings in creating a bit of a scape. I do not have the time or willingness to rip out half of the groupings every week, replanting the tops, keeping the tank clean as can be etc. but I do have the time to manage the groupings and tank cleanliness to a point where any uncleanliness is hidden by plant growth 










Here we can see a few species I am experimenting with. Star. repens, Tonina fluviatilis, P. helferi and P. erectus.










Rotala Mac. 'Mini Pink' has never looked better in this tank:


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

Quagulator said:


>


Oh man, the reds in your tank look otherworldly....it's like they're plugged into an electrical outlet! 

The tank looks great!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

rzn7z7 said:


> Oh man, the reds in your tank look otherworldly....it's like they're plugged into an electrical outlet!
> 
> The tank looks great!


Thank you! 

A lot has to do with finding the right balance of light spectrum to show off the colours. High light and good plant health are key as well, but playing with the light colour really makes an impact on how the tank looks overall. 

T5's front to back:

420nm
620nm
460nm
660nm
Full Spec. + UV


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

I'm having some issues with the plants in the discus tank. Stunted growth all around and a lot of melting. I have all easy plants, Swords, crypts, java ferns, anubias etc. 

Light is estimated 40-50PAR for 7 hours, with a 60-70PAR boost for the 5th, 6th and 7th hours. 
84 degree water. 
No CO2. 
O+ tabs under most plants recently with O+ sprinkled under substrate 4-5 months ago. 
Substrate - calcined montmorillonite clay of an unknown brand - labeled as "Aquatic Plant Pond Substrate" 
Macros are front loaded into 65% weekly water changes. 
Tank values - 6.5ppm NO3, 3ppm PO4, 16ppm K
Micro's were being dosed very lean, essentially nothing.
Medium livestock load, with medium - heavy feeding once per day. 
No algae at all. 

100% RO water:
30ppm Ca
10ppm Mg
0.5dKH

I have recently started dosing a little more micros, but no change in the plants. No change after putting O+ tabs under plant groupings either. I figure it shouldn't be micro related with all the feeding and the O+ tabs. 

All variables seem to be fine for a low tech tank, but the substrate I think may be causing some issues. I have used it before kind of with the same result, only it was in a tank I neglected and never did anything to. No real plant health / growth. Yet in tanks with plain sand and less care the plants do just fine. 

I am considering changing substrates, but I really don't want to have to break the tank down, swap substrates and set up backup again. I like the scape I have + I don't want to stress the discus out too much. But if the plants don't perk up, I think I might have to do that. 

Black, white or natural sand> Which would you prefer.....


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

Quagulator said:


> Black, white or natural sand> Which would you prefer.....


Don't discus color up on darker substrate? Then I'd go for black.


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

MoreliaViridis said:


> Don't discus color up on darker substrate? Then I'd go for black.


Nevermind...Apparently they lose their color on black background and substrate. Sry.
They color up on more bright backgrounds and substrate.


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## tetra120 (Mar 21, 2008)

I had a 55G (in the basement, in Minnesota) that I was going to do Discus in, I had 1 300W Ebo (older, not real old) in there, no top, 88* wasn't a problem, power cycled like it should. Water evaporated way fast though, ~2" per week.


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