# what lights do i need to grow carpet plants



## Rickie Briana (Dec 6, 2016)

Just as the title says. 75 gallon tank 48 inches long, 18 inch to substrate. pressurized co2 and ferts
I have been doing a ton of research but cannot decide on anything, trying to upgrade my lights. I wanted this to be as cheap as possible(im only 16)

First off what are cheap fixtures for t8 bulbs and how many would I need to grow:
Dwarf Hairgrass, Marsilea Minuta(clovers), Dwarf baby tears, monte carlo, glosso 

And even though LEDS are more expensive they do last longer and i love how they make fish look. What are the cheapest LED lights i would need to grow: Dwarf Hairgrass, Marsilea Minuta(clovers), Dwarf baby tears, monte carlo, glosso

for LEDS around $100 is cheap IMO

Bump: Will this grow them?
https://www.amazon.com/Beamswork-FSPEC-Aquarium-Light-Freshwater/dp/B01LFF07XS/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1482085827&sr=8-6&keywords=beamswork+led+48


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

I would look into finding out how much PAR these plants need. Then finding a light that you would be interested in, and finding out how much PAR it puts out. 

Just my 0.02

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## doug105! (Aug 2, 2016)

If you want inexpensive t5's, look up 'grow light t5' on eekbay. Much cheaper than aquarium setups.

DougN


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## Rickie Briana (Dec 6, 2016)

Thats what I figured, I already have 3 t8 bulbs tho (2 32 watt 6500k)(1 planted aquarium bulb) so i thought I would just buy a cheap fixture and use these 3 lights. I might end up just buying T5HO because t8s put out insufficient lighting


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## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

doug105! said:


> If you want inexpensive t5's, look up 'grow light t5' on eekbay. Much cheaper than aquarium setups.
> 
> 
> 
> DougN




I believe this to be accurate. As far as fluorescent lighting goes, regular plant lights and aquarium plant lights are virtually the same (LED plant lights as well, probably.) it's my strong opinion that you can build your own or buy a unit not marketed for aquarists, at less cost and better quality (maybe.) Look at office/shop/hydroponics fixtures(buy plant bulbs if need be)...and hate to say it but the marijuana industry seems to have phenomenal lighting tech as well and is a little less "shady" with the legalizations happening. 
I use this Lithuania (duel 21" bulbs) plant light for indoor plants and rest it on the rim of a ten gallon and it is way too much light, it's on about 4 hours a day(I also only add excell, no co2.). High light Plants have phenomenal growth. 

On the other side, I'm a strong advocate for the current satellite plus pro....I can't believe the output and PAR given off...absolutely ridiculous as far as ANY lighting goes. I have to use them on 50% power. By far the best decision I made but probably out of your budget range for that size tank. It also gives off good color unlike fluorescent, and is extremely adjustable and programmable to achieve your desire look and light requirements. I don't think you can beat the satellite plus pro unless you go all out on a homemade build (if you know exactly what you're doing,) or halogen systems.

Sorry for the rant, hope my experiences assist you with your decision. Good luck!


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Rickie Briana said:


> Just as the title says. 75 gallon tank 48 inches long, 18 inch to substrate. pressurized co2 and ferts
> 
> I have been doing a ton of research but cannot decide on anything, trying to upgrade my lights. I wanted this to be as cheap as possible(im only 16)
> 
> ...




I don't think T8 bulbs will reach your substrate adequately for low growing, high light plants...my T5's can't grow dwarf hair grass very well in my 30 gallon 18"tall tank.

All in all, I didn't realize your age and budget limitations, go for T5, look on eBay and Amazon, and find a t5 fixture within your price range that will rest on your tank (or hang above from the ceiling.) if it's not marketed as a plant light, ITS OK! You will need to buy plant bulbs for it though, making sure it's the correct wattage and what not as to not damage/wear the components (it will last longer to put it simply.) 

Unfortunately with LED's, you get what you pay for... a $60 fixture will most likely not be adequate for your needs. (Trust me..$60 down the drain for me when I first started out.)
These are strictly my opinions based off of my experiences, research, and engineering(non electrical) background. I hope others will give their opinions and experiences. There might be that one cheap LED somewhere out there that's really good, who knows.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Rickie Briana said:


> . 75 gallon tank 48 inches long, 18 inch to substrate. pressurized co2 and ferts
> I have been doing a ton of research but cannot decide on anything, trying to upgrade my lights. I wanted this to be as cheap as possible(im only 16)
> 
> First off what are cheap fixtures for t8 bulbs and how many would I need to grow:
> ...


W/ good CO2 and ferts it is not "always" about the quantity of light..
That said, the 5 row Beamswork is about equiv. to 2 4' t8's...or 1 t5ho.. as a conservative estimate..
Technically 2 would be recommended for guaranteed higher light..$138...
You can get the equiv light in a 4' 2 tube t5ho..
https://www.amazon.com/Sun-Blaze-960305-Output-4-Feet/dp/B00KM19GB6?th=1
$88 approx..


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## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

Again, so sorry, I keep forgetting to add things, I talk too much.
That beams work fixture doesn't seem to be too bad, but I honestly don't know. It seems better suited for reef tanks? but I've heard decent things about the fixture. I can't recommend it because I simply don't know enough about it and don't have time to research, though I have time to rant lol. If you don't find another solution, I would gamble that it would indeed be good enough but am skeptical about it growing the plants you mentioned, very skeptical. Consider other plants IMO. Try the dwarf hair grass (Belem.) maybe lobelia cardinalis would work with the DHG. I think your chances of success with the plants mentioned is somewhat low with your price range and that deep of a tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

FYI the above "fspec" is the 3 row model w/ the lower led density.. not the 5 row, which is more in line w/ the pent .5W


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## Rickie Briana (Dec 6, 2016)

Don't worry about all the ranting all this information helps! Like I said I'm only 16 I'm on my first planted tank and it's a learning curve for me. I just invested in a full pressurized CO2 setup ( DIY is a pain) and I have already got micros and macros, putting the cost aside, what t5HO setup could I get to grow the carpet plants I mentioned. What will it take to grow them


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## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

I jumped right into a heavily planted tank, with no aquarium experience, not too long ago.. I bit off more that I can chew! Nothing is really simple and "black and white." Lighting can be tricky. Generally speaking of course, and I don't mean to burst your bubble, but if you spent the money on the co2 system, you should have planned for good light as well. . I did the opposite(good lighting and just liquid carbon.). A decent, aquarium t5 fixture may be good enough, but will be out of your price range. I have a n aquatic life marquis duel t5 ho,(something sounding like that,) and it may do the job... but setting cost aside, do your research. There are many out there ranging in quality...I would still recommend the current satellite plus pro (~$250 on amazon) which is not much more than a good t5 would cost I think. If you can hold out and save, do it. I honestly believe $100 fixture won't cut it...I hope someone with years and years of experience can chime in and prove me wrong but with what I have tried and researched Idk. Again, if a super neat aquarium setup isn't your priority, look for non aquarium fixtures...hanging them looks good if done right. Shoot for a quad, or two duels...but if you get a good unit, one duel may suffice. Check out the FW marquis t5ho fixtures. Have read good things and it is growing my stuarogyn repens rather adequately at almost 18". I remember seeing a PAR chart on one of the forums for various fixtures and remember this unit being among the better that were tested.
My long posts are taking up the thread and people may not be as tempted to read through and chime in, haha. So if you have any questions/want more opinions just ask. Not sure about messaging on here.


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## Rickie Briana (Dec 6, 2016)

Trust me I'm reading every word!! It all helps, a beautiful tank beats the price anyday IMO! I'll spend the money on the lights I just don't want to invest in something I will regret!

Do you guys think a dual t5HO setup will be a good place for me to start, I'm gonna ditch the t8s because almost every person tells me they don't put out adequate lighting, but should I get t5s or t5HO


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## dshuld (Dec 4, 2013)

If you are good with m. minuta, check the diamond plate shop lights at home depot. They have gone to an online only item though. I ran the 2 bulb and 3 bulb version. Still not as efficient as t5ho but would leave you still able to use the bulbs you have and get 1 at a time as funds are available. I dont think anyone ever did any par checks on the 3 bulb but here is hoppy's chart for the 2 bulb.








I ran 2 of those on my 75 but I didn't do any carpet plants in it. I tried 2 of the 2 bulbs on my 55 for a while but it was to much for my low tech approach then and I switched it to the 3 bulb version. 

If I were to use them again, I'd do 2 of the 3 bulb version on the 75 knowing you have pressurized co2. At $40 a piece you'll end up close to a quad t5ho hydroponic fixture though. One t5ho fixture I had saved in my watch list on evilbay was item 121562340142. I ended up going with a 6 bulb sunblaze for various reasons but it was one I was looking at.

For a visualization on the hd diamond plate..
Dual 2 bulb on the 75, this was originally meant to hold just the angels and corys but the kissers made their way to my house via my roommate at the time so they went in there for a bit too.









55 with the 3 bulb version. The thing I liked about it most was the fact it had "end caps" unlike the 2 bulb. 









Not trying to sway you from a t5ho fixture by any means because it will give you more options in plant choice but when on a short budget those hd diamond plate lights would be my choice for t8 shop lights.


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## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

Rickie Briana said:


> Trust me I'm reading every word!! It all helps, a beautiful tank beats the price anyday IMO! I'll spend the money on the lights I just don't want to invest in something I will regret!
> 
> Do you guys think a dual t5HO setup will be a good place for me to start, I'm gonna ditch the t8s because almost every person tells me they don't put out adequate lighting, but should I get t5s or t5HO




T5ho...I think it's even more common now than t5no. Remember fluorescents don't give a very nice visual appeal, they wash colors out...I still vote the current satellite plus pro! 
I'd like to say the t5ho fixture would be a good start. If you haven't already, try adding one plant at a time as to not waste money and have everything die, especially if the tank is not very mature. Longer you wait the better(few months even.) I've had too many plants die due to "winging it" and pure experimentation and adding too many plants at once to a new setup . Enjoy the ride, it gets rather boring when things settle down and run smoothly . 



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## jmccullough108 (Nov 25, 2016)

jeffkrol said:


> FYI the above "fspec" is the 3 row model w/ the lower led density.. not the 5 row, which is more in line w/ the pent .5W


Why is the PAR value so high on such a low watt light? Can anyone explain this to me like I am five? Thanks!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jmccullough108 said:


> Why is the PAR value so high on such a low watt light? Can anyone explain this to me like I am five? Thanks!


Well efficiency for one .. Lumens(subset of PAR)/watt, secondly..directional..120 degree spread as opposed to say "tubes" which push 360.. even w. good reflectors you have losses..
quad clip uses 90 lenses as well
Third, you may be confusing the watt rating. That is per emitter..

30"


> Lumen: 4000
> LEDs: 80x 0.50 watt


https://www.amazon.com/Beamswork-6500K-Aquarium-Freshwater-Discus/dp/B01KYELCQW

note though, that is generally system watts.. Diodes may only run at, say, .3W or so..
That "trickles down" though.. .2w emitters run at .1w...
Hard to tell unless you run constant current (these don't) and know what the diode voltage is running at, at that current..not the simplest explanation..


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

This is can be an expensive hobby, even for adults. There are many ways to look at every situation. This is one angle. You are wanting a high tech tank on a budget. Possible but risky. What happens if your budget light breaks? Your budget light? Etc. Do you have enough money to go out and buy your broken piece of equipment? Because in a high tech tank things can go sour real quick. High tech on a budget is more realistic with smaller tanks. My advice stay low tech with your big aquarium. Get low tech carpeting plants like dwarf sag. Save some cash and build yourself a nano high tech. I have learned my self from buying cheaper filters, lights, and regulators. Seldom do they pan out.


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## Rickie Briana (Dec 6, 2016)

I have the money, I just don't want to buy a $150 finnex led and then i find out it won't even grow my m. minuta or whatever carpet plant I end up getting.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Finnex RAY II or Finnex planted plus 24/7 for 75 gal would be my choice after Me trying the Finnex planted plus.
If you can't grow carpet with the RAY II,it won't be due to poor lighting.
Four tube T8 shop light would also work IMHO


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## Rickie Briana (Dec 6, 2016)

Thank you!! This is the info I was looking for, just super basic if it would work or not


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## dshuld (Dec 4, 2013)

Rickie Briana said:


> I have the money, I just don't want to buy a $150 finnex led and then i find out it won't even grow my m. minuta or whatever carpet plant I end up getting.



While I have enjoyed my planted+ on my 20L one thing to keep in mind with the 75 is you will need two to get even light distribution across the width. I don't completely agree on cheaper isn't always better either. There's a reason people started using hydroponic fixtures over aquarium fixtures...they are cheaper. Some carry a 5 year warranty on the ballasts (one reason I'm still deciding on how I want to "hack" my 6 bulb sunblaze to run 3 sets of 2 on 3 switches rather then all on 1 switch) and some are lucky enough to have a local hydroponic store for after sale support (reason why I bought mine locally). Parts can be found locally for repair if I decide to say the heck with my warranty as well. Same goes for the diamond plate lights I mentioned in the other post, 6500k Phillips bulbs at hd (same bulbs used for those pics), ballasts and bulb sockets are available through either big box hardware store.

What other plants are you keeping in there again? The t5ho/ "high power" led (ray2, beamworks evo/snake eye, sat+ pro) will give you the ability to raise or lower your lights as needed for the desired plants. The diamond plate lights would need to sit directly on the top of it to keep you in medium light range on the 75 with a bit of a gap between the fixtures. Two of the 3 bulb version would probably put you near "the line" of medium and high, maybe a little over.

Long and short of it not knowing what the other plants you have/plan on (I'm not the best at id's), quad t5ho hydroponic fixture is probably the cheapest way to go with room to play light level wise. Next would probably be the beamworks evo/snake eye quad but they have a short warranty period. The finnex led's you would have to plan on double the price due to needing 2 to cover the width. Just depends how cheap you want the front side of the purchase to be and if you want the ability to change a bulb to change the look or look at another led strip purchase to use for color rendering. Tons of ways to skin this cat......


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## Rickie Briana (Dec 6, 2016)

Right now I have mostly low light plants , this is because I never had the lights to support higher light plants. Now that I have a full pressurized CO2 setup and everything I need for EI dosing, Lighting was next up to conquer, you guys all helped me so much understand how lighting works since I don't have much experience with it. I'm sure all of you have years of experience doing this stuff. But for some reason I just love hobby! I'm ditching LEDs for now, maybe in the future I'll get into them. I'm going to get more plants and get a 4 bulb t8 fixture from lowes for now. If it doesn't show good growth of my plants I'll return it (90 return policy) and I'll get a t5HO setup!


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## dshuld (Dec 4, 2013)

Rickie Briana said:


> Right now I have mostly low light plants , this is because I never had the lights to support higher light plants. Now that I have a full pressurized CO2 setup and everything I need for EI dosing, Lighting was next up to conquer, you guys all helped me so much understand how lighting works since I don't have much experience with it. I'm sure all of you have years of experience doing this stuff. But for some reason I just love hobby! I'm ditching LEDs for now, maybe in the future I'll get into them. I'm going to get more plants and get a 4 bulb t8 fixture from lowes for now. If it doesn't show good growth of my plants I'll return it (90 return policy) and I'll get a t5HO setup!


Check the utilitech model mxl-102 out while you are at lowes. See if the inside looks similar to this pic (stolen from hoppy's pics...thanks Hoppy!!) I can't tell in the pic on line but looks like it may have the same "w" shape inside. If it does but isn't reflective like this one go to the hvac area and grab some hvac foil tape to put inside. Won' be a perfect match to this mylar film but will give better results then if it is black inside. Grab 2 of them of course.


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

Rickie Briana said:


> I have the money, I just don't want to buy a $150 finnex led and then i find out it won't even grow my m. minuta or whatever carpet plant I end up getting.


Since the money is not the issue I would(and did for my 70g) get 2 sat+pro. You can adjust to what ever you want to grow. 

I own the rayII also. I grows plants no doubt but it washes out the colors. If you go with finnex I would add one of the lights with RGB leds to suplement the rayII.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

maxhrbal said:


> T5ho... Remember fluorescents don't give a very nice visual appeal, they wash colors out...I still vote the current satellite plus pro!



I don't agree with this at all. The fluorescent light on my tank greatly enhances the color of my fish and plants. I run 2 EVO Leds and an old Fluorescent fixture that I modified from 4' to 3'. My colors are incredible with just the fluorescent, they wash out when I turn the leds on


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## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

Kubla said:


> I don't agree with this at all. The fluorescent light on my tank greatly enhances the color of my fish and plants. I run 2 EVO Leds and an old Fluorescent fixture that I modified from 4' to 3'. My colors are incredible with just the fluorescent, they wash out when I turn the leds on




Wow! I'd love to know what bulbs and fixture you use!  lighting is also interpreted differently by everyone. I think most would agree that tubes don't give off the best appeal, but yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I wish I enjoyed the look of fluorescent lighting. . All depends on fixtures, bulbs, taste etc. I do have a Lithuania T5 fixture on a ten G that looks rather good, I just think the LED's I have look even better and really bring out the different shades of colors and make everything "pop."


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## dshuld (Dec 4, 2013)

maxhrbal said:


> Wow! I'd love to know what bulbs and fixture you use!  lighting is also interpreted differently by everyone. I think most would agree that tubes don't give off the best appeal, but yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I wish I enjoyed the look of fluorescent lighting. . All depends on fixtures, bulbs, taste etc. I do have a Lithuania T5 fixture on a ten G that looks rather good, I just think the LED's I have look even better and really bring out the different shades of colors and make everything "pop."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I agree very subjective. For me, the Philips t8 were just as nice to look at as my planted+ is. The ge starcoat t5ho I have are a bit to "green" for my liking but at $4.76 a bulb I'm not complaining. The ultra sun brand (sun light supply brand along with spectralux) 6500k is to blue for me and required 1 of their 3000k to 3 6500k to achieve what I like. Next time I order 6500k t5ho I may try a set of Philips to see if they have the "look" I loved with my t8's. I wasn't able to find much info when used for our purposes so I skipped them this round but maybe by then I'll get off my rear and make a hoppy meter so I'll know for sure on their par :grin2: . Sylvania 6500k cfl looked better then Philips to me though so I ran those on my 20H when I had that set up with cfls. Before my cat killed my sat+ I preferred green completely off the rest up all the way on my acei tank. The spectralux bulbs that came with my sunblaze are now over that tank for the time being and I see no visual difference between the two other then I'm using a lot more power on the tank while the lights are on.


I think that anyone can find what they like with either type of light it's just a matter of playing with bulb combos, buying a led that's adjustable(in the case of the planted+ turning blues on and off...) or adding rgb led strips like some have with the beamworks fixtures.


Back to the op though, have you had a chance to go to lowes yet Rickie?


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## Rickie Briana (Dec 6, 2016)

No not yet but I'm going tomorrow !


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