# New Fluval CO2 Kit



## TLE041

Hi guys,

There's a new all-in-one CO2 kit (similar to the Pierce or ADA Advanced) from Fluval that just came out recently.










It includes:

- Regulator Valve
- 88g Disposable CO2 Cartridge
- Hose
- In-Tank Micro Bubble CO2 Diffuser
- External Bubble Counter
- Hanger Bracket

The good thing is that it uses 88g cartridges. It'll be great if standard 88g paintball cartridges will fit this unit out-of-the-box (which means very cheap and readily available refills). One negative is that it doesn't have a solenoid to conserve CO2 and mainly to prevent overdosing at night.

Fluval products are pretty good quality judging from past experience. I'm seriously considering this for a new Mini-M tank that I'm setting up.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.


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## jeffvmd

This kit is nice but 88g cartridges are disposable and not refillable.
There is an adapter for 24oz tanks which reduces the thread to an 88g size.
http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/88g-bb-gun-air-tank-adapter

The cheapest 88g cartridge I got before was $4

How much is this fluval CO2 kit anyway?


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## Lance Uppercut

jeffvmd said:


> How much is this fluval CO2 kit anyway?


Looks like its going to fall in the $70-$80 range.
There's also a smaller kit that uses (i think) 20g cartridges that should be around $30


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## ozanter

This Kit looks good, I wouldn't mind this kit if the refills are readily available in petsmart/petco for less than $10 for the 88g. 

I wonder how good the needle valve is.


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## TLE041

Here's a picture of the refill cartridge: 










It looks pretty similar to standard 88g air gun cartridges like these:










The Fluval one costs £14 (so it'll be around $20USD) whereas the air gun cartridges are only $15 for 2. 

For a sub-10 gallon tank, how long do you guys think each cartridge will last?




ozanter said:


> I wonder how good the needle valve is.


Good question.


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## Sharkfood

I think an 88 gram cartridge would empty very quickly on the 40 gallon tank it claims it can be used in. This might be nice for a small nano tank or maybe even up to a ten or twenty gallon with the 24oz. cylinder, rather than hooking up a CO2 cylinder that is bigger than the tank its being used on.


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## Julii Cory

You can use paint ball refillable CO2 cylinders with this kit if you are considering something small and it also has a solenoid so that if you attach it to a timer it can stop CO2 dosing at night.
http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_product&cPath=72_73
but you still have to buy the diffuser, line, bubble counter, and the thread adapter.
They work really well, I've seen them at the ADA shop but they only use them on nano tanks.


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## TLE041

I received this kit in the mail last week. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, though (tank is in the process of a dry-start).

Since I'm going for a more Amano-esque look, I decided to ditch the black plastic bubble counter and diffuser and bought some glass ones off eBay instead.

Here is a pic of how it'll be set up on my Mini-M (minus the water):










Close-up:










Stock bubble counter and diffuser:


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## SearunSimpson

I actually just picked this up the other day, and I would say I'm pretty impressed with it's components for how stock/basic it is. The one thing I did add was a check-valve between the bubble counter and the diffuser. Other than that, it is working great.


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## chilled_fire

this looks really nice, would really like to get one but its shows out of stock online


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## hockey9999

This is now in stock here - 
http://www.petsolutions.com/storefront/product-view.ep?pID=FluvalPressurinedCO2

Awesome price too. I hope they aren't making a mistake and advertising the 88g kit by accident.. I would be devastated to say the least if the 20g kit shows up at my door!

I ordered one.

Also, I am still trying to find an adapter suitable for using a paintball tank with this setup. 

This looks like it should definitely work! I hope the threads are the same.. 

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/BREWER_S_EDGE_PAINTBALL_MINI__P2656.cfm

I think there may be an option or 2 on this site.. http://www.bryanandac.com/OldPage/BulkCO2_old.htm

Or this

http://www.amazon.com/88g-Gun-Air-Tank-Adapter/dp/B003BMEW9E/ref=pd_bxgy_sg_text_b


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## sailnut

I don't think any of these will work.

The 88 gram tank has an odd ball m16 x 1.5 thread.. I spent a lot of time yesterday searching for an adapter with such a thread on the male end with no luck.


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## hockey9999

How were you able to find out the thread size of the Fluval canisters? The threads look identical to the airsource 88g airgun canisters, though I havent tried one yet.


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## hockey9999

Does anyone happen to know what the thread size of a standard paintball tank is? For some reason I can't find it anywhere.. Is it 1/2" npt? If so, these guys may have something that works.. 

http://www.sealconusa.com/catalog/adap-enl-red/adap-enl-red_02.html


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## sailnut

The Fluval canisters are ordinary 88G paintball tanks. The labeling is a plastic shrink sleeve shrunk onto the canister.
It seems that 100% of the 88G tanks are made with that thread. At least the sites I visited said so. 

There seem to be some manufactures that play loose with the length and finish of the threaded neck which makes for compatibility issues.

If you read the Fluval instruction sheet they make oblique mention of this.


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## hockey9999

I think at this point I am going to be returning the Fluval kit and just going the DIY paintball route. I got my kit in and for some reason the canister will not thread onto the regulator. It stops after about 3/4 of a turn. I am not sure if it is a problem with the threads on the regulator or tank itself, but I am certainly not going to force it to screw in. 

By the time I buy an adapter of some sort, and then a 20-24oz paintball tank once my first cartridge runs out, I will have spent way more then just going with the DIY paintball setup to begin with. I had planned on replacing at least the ugly Fluval diffuser anyway, will probably go with a cheap glass diffuser/bubble counter from ebay

Hope the kit works out for everyone else though!


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## sailnut

The canister is supposed to fit tight! I thought mine was cross threading but with a little hand torque it went on. When the pin pierces the cartridge you will hear nothing but the gauge will read about 1,000.

What you are experiencing is what I wrote about in my last post. The mfg of the cylinder is supposed to clean the threads once they are tapped. That's an expensive proposition and many do not do it. The roughly tapped threads are slightly to large so the tank is tough to screw into the regulator.

Because of this Fluval warns of undo wear in the regulator in a couple of years.

I was pleasantly surprised at how well everything is matched in this kit. The valve is just sensitive enough and it will hold a 1 bubble/sec all day long. The diffuser produces a cloud a tiny bubbles that dissolve rapidly.

If someone can find an adapter for larger tank
s this piece is a real winner.


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## hockey9999

I'm talking like stopped dead tight.. It just didn't feel right at all. The top of the canister wasn't anywhere near the pin in the regulator, so I know I wasn't just feeling resistance from the pin. I will give it one more try when I get my tank running. I didn't intend to actually puncture the cartridge yet, since I dont have a tank to use it on.. My girlfriend got me the Ebi for Christmas and I have been forbidden to touch it until then. I am working on getting her to compromise and just give me filter so I can seed it in another tank lol. I got my co2 kit from petsolutions.com, they have a 60 day return policy so I have plenty of time.

After hearing how happy you are with yours, I am tempted to stick with it. It sounds like it is far more controllable then a DIY paintball setup.. The deal breaker will be whether one of these adapters or cheaper 88g canisters will definitely work..


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## TLE041

I've read that it's recommended to use some Vaseline (petroleum jelly) on the treads and seals to give a completely air-tight seal. Maybe the extra lubrication could help make your canister go on easier?

For those using this already, do you find there's a problem at all with it running all night? This is my first regulator without a solenoid so I'm a little nervous about it. It'll be used on a 5.5 gallon tank (Mini-M).


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## hockey9999

TLE041, do you happen to recall which ebay seller you got your diffuser/bubble counter from? I really like them. Regardless of what I decided to do, I want to order similar ones. I will give your Vaseline suggestion a try, in addition to applying some more force and cleaning the threads when I set up the tank. 

Since you are talking about possibly shutting it off at night, I am assuming that the needle valve on the regulator allows you to completely stop co2 flow. Sailnut, can you confirm that for us?


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## TLE041

Diffuser: search "2x Slanted Glass CO2 diffuser for planted aquarium tank"
Bubble counter: search "CO2 Bubble Counter / Monitor / CO2 checker"

I'd prefer not to have to manually shut on and off every day. Besides the risk of forgetting to do it, I also want to avoid prematurely wearing out the needle valve. If there's no other option I'd rather leave it on all the time. I posted a thread inquiring about a solenoid for this unit but didn't get anything conclusive.


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## OverStocked

hockey9999 said:


> Does anyone happen to know what the thread size of a standard paintball tank is? For some reason I can't find it anywhere.. Is it 1/2" npt? If so, these guys may have something that works..
> 
> http://www.sealconusa.com/catalog/adap-enl-red/adap-enl-red_02.html


A normal paintball tank is cga320, just like a normal co2 tank. The only difference is that paintball tanks have a pin depressor in them. You'd need an 88g male to paintball adapter.


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## sailnut

"I'm talking like stopped dead tight.. It just didn't feel right at all. The top of the canister wasn't anywhere near the pin in the regulator, so I know I wasn't just feeling resistance from the pin"

Which was exactly my impression. However the tank was not cross threaded and seated itself properly. There was no sound when the pin penetrated the tank nozzle. However the gauge immediately registered 1,000.

In response to the needle valve seating. It does not require much force to seat the valve and I cannot believe that this is a wear and tear item. It takes between 1/2 and 1/3 of a turn to get enough pressure to start the diffuser.

Last night after trying to stop the flow by crimping the tube (and failing) I shut off the system. In the morning I found that 1/2 the water in the bubble counter had bee sucked back into the tube. It took about 10 - 15 minutes after opening the needle valve for the water to be pushed back into the bubble counter and the diffuser to start. Once started it was easy to restore my previous drop rate of 1/sec.

A google search of 88G male connector return results for a 12g to 88g adapter. The the 88g tanks are relatively popular so I suppose a workable adapter is around but I have no clue re it where-about's

As to the paintball systems using the full tank pressure... The needle valves are being operated way outside there design pressure spectrum. This is a recipe for trouble. If I give up on the Fluval I will get one of the Foster &Smith's setup and an airball adapter. Not to spend the extra money is false economy.


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## gBOYsc2

TLE041 said:


> I'd prefer not to have to manually shut on and off every day. Besides the risk of forgetting to do it, I also want to avoid prematurely wearing out the needle valve. If there's no other option I'd rather leave it on all the time. I posted a thread inquiring about a solenoid for this unit but didn't get anything conclusive.


Hi TLE041. I wouldn't worry too much about leaving the co2 all night long. I have kept my 50g and 20g tanks with pressurized co2 running 24/7 withouth a problem. I only have minor surface agitation as well.

What are you going to be using as a filter? Are you using a canister or HOB? HOB you will have no problem for sure. If you are using a canister just make sure you have a little bit of surface agitation and you shouldn't have much of a problem.


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## OverStocked

Pm me tomorrow. I will have some lower voltage inline solenoids

Sent from my DINC


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## Cento

Has anyone tried the mini version (Fluval CO2 20 Mini)? I read from the picture on the box that a "diffusor has to manually be filled once a day"? What does that exactly mean? Is this the case for the 88g?

I already have a glass diffusor that I like; will that work with this mini system?

Thanks in advance,

Cento


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## TLE041

Hi Cento,

The 88g kit comes with a standard ceramic diffuser (a plastic version of a glass one), so it doesn't need to be filled at all. The diffuser that comes with the 20g one is very strange.

Between the two, I'd get the 88g kit (which I did).


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## Cento

TLE041 said:


> Hi Cento......Between the two, I'd get the 88g kit (which I did).


Thanks for the reply... I'm seriously contemplating getting one, but I'm just apprehensive about the smallness of the tank and am waiting for the outcome of another thread of yours to see if it can be adapted to larger tanks... :icon_smil


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## Cento

over_stocked said:


> A normal paintball tank is cga320, just like a normal co2 tank. The only difference is that paintball tanks have a pin depressor in them. You'd need an 88g male to paintball adapter.


Sorry to dig this up again, but I just bought the 88gr Fluval co2 kit, and before I open it up and use it, I wanna be sure; *over_stocked*, I don't know if I understood correctly, but are you saying that there exists an adaptor to fit the 88gr Fuval "regulator" onto a refillable paintball tank?


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## sailnut

At the present that question is unanswered. At this point we know that there is no adapter for the 95g tanks which has a similar , not the same. thread as an 88g tank.

I have been running my Fluval for a week and I am very pleased with the mechanics of the thing. The diffuser is first rate and the bubble count is easily set and does not vary,

As to a Paintball system (my personal take.) I would stay away from anything without a regulator. A co2 cylinder is pressurized to 100's of lbs/sq-inch. To control the flow with a needle valve which may or may not be rated for that kind of pressure is asking for trouble. Unfortunately any regulator/needle valve/diffuser set up is a lot more money then the Fluval. 88g cartridges are widely available and at a bubble every 2 to 4 seconds should last for a few weeks, I would suggest you do your homework respecting the economies of a Paintball system operating in a small tank.


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## Cento

Thanks for the reply *sailnut*. 

I only ask because it doesn't take a mathmagician (pun intended) to figure out that, though the initial cost is comparatively low, in the LONG RUN the fluval CO2 replacement's are not economically efficient (here they run $12-$15 per cartridge).

So, I intended, not necessarily to attach it to a 10lbs or even a 5lbs tank, but to try to adapt it to a slightly larger cylinder (9-12oz) that is refillable and lasts a little longer then the 2-3 of the 88 gr.

I was just curious to see if anyone who purchased the kit some time ago had already tried or looked into adapting it.

Tomorrow I'll take a day to drive around to some shops (paintball, bike, plumbing, auto parts, etc) and ask around about adaptors and I'll maybe send Fluval an email asking what the regulator is rated.


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## sailnut

I understand that a 88g to BB adapter will work (from ad's that is) If it does let me know.


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## Senior Shrimpo

Anyone know of a solenoid that would work for this? I searched it and all I got was for Canadian solenoids.


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## hockey9999

There is a thread here about it. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/121237-solenoid-solution-fluval-co2-kit.html

I am not sure if anyone found a solution though.


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## Senior Shrimpo

Yep, checked it, there wasn't one. Darn. I don't understand why you can't just put the system on a timer (without the solenoid) to shut off, or manually unplug it.


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## hockey9999

Without a solenoid, there is nothing to put on a timer or unplug. The only electrical part of a co2 system, to the best of my limited knowledge, is the solenoid or a controller (pH controller?) in the really fancy systems.


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## Senior Shrimpo

Huh. I'm totally new to co2. So I'd need a solenoid to put the co2 on a timer. Why doesn't the fluval system come with one? I'll try to use all m brain power to find a solenoid that works with this system, and when I do, I'll share my findings here.


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## hockey9999

I am new to co2 as well, but have done some research.. 

From what I understand, there are 2 kinds of solenoids. 

One kind would screw directly in to to the regulator via 1/8" (I think) threads. I'm not sure if the hose barb on the Fluval Regulator is removable, or if it has 1/8" threads if it is removable. It looks like it from the pictures, I haven't had the opportunity to use mine yet so I don't know for sure. 

The other type of solenoid is in-line, meaning there are hose barbs on both sides of it. This kind should work with any regulator. 

This site has an expensive solenoid that works both inline and mounted to the regulator. http://www.aquariumguys.com/co2-solenoid-valve.htmlI am sure there is something out there that is more cost effective. 

This one actually looks like it would work as well. http://www.marinedepot.com/Replacement_CO2_Solenoid_For_CO2_Regulator_CO2_Regulator_Replacement_Parts-CO2-CO3171-FICORERP-vi.html

I have absolutely zero direct experience with solenoids, I am just going off of what I have found out by Googling..so I could be completely off base here. 

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable them me will chime in!

EDIT--

Looks like I am wrong!



seanm222 said:


> Make sure there isnt any tubing before the solenoid, as when it shuts off pressure is going to build up and will cause the tubing to burst. I made that mistake when i tried to modify my pierce co2 cartridge set up. Make sure its regulator>needle valve>solenoid then tubing.


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## TLE041

hockey9999 said:


> I'm not sure if the hose barb on the Fluval Regulator is removable...


It is removable...










I'm wondering if a solenoid could be attached directly to this nipple.


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## hockey9999

I think that is just the collar that secures the tubing onto the nipple. I _think_ that in order to connect the solenoid directly to the regulator, you would need to actually unscrew that entire part, nipple and all, from the body of the regulator. I could definitely be wrong though

I will finally be able to play with my set-up on Christmas, it's a gift  So I will try to figure out more then.

Take a look at how this solenoid is connected to the regulator. It looks like it is using a male to male adapter.. 

Does anyone know if a needle valve is a requirement in this equation?


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## Senior Shrimpo

Huh, you guys beat me to it but yes, I think hockey is right. I think that if you attach the solenoid to the nipple than it could work.

edit: I've got the co2 kit coming and might order the second solenoid hockey put up to test it out.


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## Cento

Well, as* Hockey* said, there already is a thread about trying to attach a solenoid to the Fluval CO2 regulator.

IMO, I think the main concern to make this a win-win, affordable option is to try to find a way to get this little sucker on small refillable tanks (9oz-12oz). I didn't get a chance to drive around yesterday looking for the adaptors.

I think *sailnut* who mentioned this earlier, was referring to this adaptor that may work:

http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/88g-bb-gun-air-tank-adapter

Because I'm an impatient, petulant bugger, I'm gonna try and call around my city to see if I can go get it today in person instead of ordering it. I also want to try it before I buy it, to make sure its gonna work. 

If it does, depending on what size aquarium your supplying the CO2 (mines a 10gal), you can leave the CO2 running 24/7 without any real concerns. Refills are about $5-$7, and the CO2 cylinder (depending on size), could last a month or two.


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## sailnut

I latest research leads me to conclude that with one exception there are NO MALE to FEMALE 88g to Paintball adapters. The only exception is advertised on a site which sells a very expensive co2 powered engraving stylus. This part will only be sold as part of tool transaction ($1,000+) and costs $38 which given the fact that the Fluval is selling for $45 strikes me as non economic!
In summary here are the options from cheapest to most expensive with their liabilities.
1: Do it-your-self (yeast/sugar) cheap! Low pressure, messy, variable short term output.
2: Fluval 88g cheap excellent engineering readily available expensive cartridge. Expensive to run in the longer term.
3: Pearce... etc More expensive then Fluval. Odd ball cartridge.
4: DIY Using refilliable paintball tank and high pressure needle valve. Cheap (about as much as Fluval) refils are economic. Difficult to adjust. Full tank pressure on valve (no regulator)
5: Traditional regulator. Reliable, cheapest to run. Most expensive, tank and regulator are bulky.

Chose your poison...!


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## hockey9999

What makes you think that the paintball adapter in post # 42 won't work? Have you had an opportunity to try one?

I think the easiest way to find out if it will work without actually buying the adapter is to buy the 88g canisters that Walmart sells. That adapter is designed to adapt a regular paintball tank to an airgun that uses the walmart/airsource 88g canisters. 

I will try to get to Walmart today and pick them up, a 2 pack was about $10. If they don't fit, I at least know Walmart will take them back. I won't have the co2 kit until Sat since its an Xmas gift.. So I will post my findings then.


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## majstor76

hockey9999 said:


> I think that is just the collar that secures the tubing onto the nipple. I _think_ that in order to connect the solenoid directly to the regulator, you would need to actually unscrew that entire part, nipple and all, from the body of the regulator. I could definitely be wrong though


No, your right. With solenoid you get (well, at least i am) male to male adapter to connect solenoid directly to regulator



hockey9999 said:


> Does anyone know if a needle valve is a requirement in this equation?


Needle valve is *always* requirement. But, you wouldnt be happy with needle valve from your picture. Thats chinese valve , priced about 10$, coarse and very hard to set.


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## hockey9999

I was under the impression that the Fluval regulator valve was a needle valve.. 

I probably wont be getting a solenoid any time soon. I am still interested in seeing how everyone else thats interested in one makes it work though..


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## majstor76

hockey9999 said:


> I am new to co2 as well, but have done some research..
> 
> From what I understand, there are 2 kinds of solenoids.
> 
> One kind would screw directly in to to the regulator via 1/8" (I think) threads. I'm not sure if the hose barb on the Fluval Regulator is removable, or if it has 1/8" threads if it is removable. It looks like it from the pictures, I haven't had the opportunity to use mine yet so I don't know for sure.
> 
> The other type of solenoid is in-line, meaning there are hose barbs on both sides of it. This kind should work with any regulator.
> 
> This site has an expensive solenoid that works both inline and mounted to the regulator. http://www.aquariumguys.com/co2-solenoid-valve.htmlI am sure there is something out there that is more cost effective.
> 
> This one actually looks like it would work as well. http://www.marinedepot.com/Replacem...Replacement_Parts-CO2-CO3171-FICORERP-vi.html
> 
> I have absolutely zero direct experience with solenoids, I am just going off of what I have found out by Googling..so I could be completely off base here.
> 
> Hopefully someone more knowledgeable them me will chime in!
> 
> EDIT--
> 
> Looks like I am wrong!


No, your not wrong . You *can* have solenoid inline with hoses betwen regulator and solenoid. Just dont go for most cheapest tubes. Google "polyurethane tubing", its for pneumatics.
Solenoids go for 30$, look on ebay


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## sailnut

hockey9999 said:


> What makes you think that the paintball adapter in post # 42 won't work? Have you had an opportunity to try one?
> 
> I think the easiest way to find out if it will work without actually buying the adapter is to buy the 88g canisters that Walmart sells. That adapter is designed to adapt a regular paintball tank to an airgun that uses the walmart/airsource 88g canisters.
> 
> I will try to get to Walmart today and pick them up, a 2 pack was about $10. If they don't fit, I at least know Walmart will take them back. I won't have the co2 kit until Sat since its an Xmas gift.. So I will post my findings then.


Something to do with the length of the threaded portion of the adapter. If you look at the picture you can see the unthreaded neck is much longer then the one supplied by Fluval.

Please let me know if you have any luck with the Walmart tank/adapters.


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## majstor76

hockey9999 said:


> I was under the impression that the Fluval regulator valve was a needle valve..


No , i have confused, i commented setup on post 40, not Fluval setup (which should have needle valve. But, every co2 system should consist of regulator and needle valve. Regulator drops the pressure and needle drops it even further to have bps on output.


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## hockey9999

I definitely noticed that as well. I think that as long as we are able to tighten the adapter down enough, even if its only like 4-5 threads deep, it should be fine. 

If I understand correctly, the seal isn't going to be made with the threads themselves, but with the o-ring that sits inside the regulator. 

I dont think that having a few threads hanging out of the bottom would matter. Its the kind of thing that I would definitely wrap in Teflon tape anyway and once its in place, only remove the paintball canister and not the adapter itself. 

Anyway.. I will let everyone know how the walmart canisters work out..


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## sailnut

_The Regulator Valve can last up to two years depending on the frequency of CO2 Cartridge replacement and proper handling._

This is a copy and paste excerpt from the manual which comes with the unit.


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## majstor76

sailnut said:


> _The Regulator Valve can last up to two years depending on the frequency of CO2 Cartridge replacement and proper handling._
> 
> This is a copy and paste excerpt from the manual which comes with the unit.


This is first time that i heard that co2 regulator has expiration time. Just because of this alone i would stay away from it.


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## Cento

majstor76 said:


> This is first time that i heard that co2 regulator has expiration time. Just because of this alone i would stay away from it.


 
This is in reference to the fact that every time you screw on a new disposable cylinder, the cylinder is pierced by an apparatus to allow the CO2 to flow out of the cylinder and into the regulator. 

Its understandable that piercing over and over and over again will severely limit the life of the regulator by damaging the little poker inside it.

BUT... if you use the adaptor, you clearly see there is already a hole there. I won't know how it all works until I get it in my hands, but I think the issue with the wear and tear of the regulator would be dealt with by using the adapter.


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## GitMoe

I bought the 88g kit last week and I absolutely love it. Very consistent bubble count. It's been long enough I wish somebody would try out an adapter to paintball cylinder already...


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## hockey9999

I will at least have tried out the 88g airsource/walmart canisters by Sunday at the latest!

If they work, then this adapter should definitely work. 

http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/88g-bb-gun-air-tank-adapter


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## Cento

hockey9999 said:


> I will at least have tried out the 88g airsource/walmart canisters by Sunday at the latest!
> 
> If they work, then this adapter should definitely work.
> 
> http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/88g-bb-gun-air-tank-adapter


 
Yeah for *hockey9999* for taking one for the team! :hihi:

I guess no one wants to be the guinea pig... I called around up here, and apparently no one (or at least the 4 different paintball shops I called) carries the RAP4 adapter. So, i couldn't try it out for myself on the regulator.

I think patience will get the better of me, and I'm gonna switch this weekend from the DIY to my Fluval kit.

I sent an enquiry to Fluval telling them I bought the kit, and I'll like to know what their regulator is rated at, and what the threads are. We'll see how long they take to get back to me. I think to know what psi the regulator can handle will be important in order to know how big a cylinder we can go to.


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## hockey9999

No problem! Glad to help!

So I just got back from Walmart.. What a zoo that place is 2 days before Christmas! 

Here is a picture of the Walmart canister.. It is definitely longer and skinnier then the Fluval canister, not that it really matters. 


photo by dougjacobs99, on Flickr

In comparing it to the picture of the other 88g Airsource brand canisters, it would appear to have a slightly shorter/different un-threaded part at the top which leads me to believe there is some tolerance with regard to the actual length of the threaded section. 










As soon as Santa  brings me my set-up, I will immediately give this canister a try! Keeping my fingers crossed that the threads are the same!

Can anyone post an actual picture of the Fluval canisters just for comparisons sake?


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## Senior Shrimpo

They look pretty similar, no way to tell without physically seeing both of them though.


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## sailnut

Here is the a Photo-Shoped comparison of the 2 tanks. The proportions of the tanks were NOT altered. I re-sized them so that elongated neck of each was the same length.

Everything else aside its obvious that the proportions of the two cylinders is very different.

I also rescaled the Fluval image to the same proportions as the Walmart cartridge. an examination shows obvious differences in the threads.

Of course the proof is in the pudding. Will it mate with the Fluval regulator?


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## Cento

*sailnut*, I sense you have money on this not working.... :tongue:

I think a lot of people (except Fluval... or maybe they will...??) will benefit from this working out; especially small setups like mine (10 gal aquarium). I'm quite confident that we'll find a way to make this setup run more cost effectively. If not this route, then I'm sure someone will find another way.


----------



## sailnut

the standard thread size for 88g cartridges is m16 -15 (metric). The 16 refers to the diameter (in millimeters). The 15 refers to the pitch coarseness (millimeters).

This morning I measured the diameter of the exposed, threaded portion of my cartridge. It's 15mm! To be sure I made an accurate 16mm template. It's to large! There is no doubt about it. The Fluval cartridge is 1mm smaller in diameter then the standard 88g part..

If you check the early posts in this thread you will find mention of the difficulty in screwing the Fluval supplied cartridge into their regulator.

It appears that the regulator itself has been tapped to slightly less the 15mm. Perhaps this explain the warning of non function in 2 years?

What all this adds up-to that it's unlikely that any mass market cartridge will screw into the regulator.

I took a photo of my installed Fluval Cartridge and compared it proportions to a couple of 3rd party cartridges Crosman, Walters and Walmart the three here are pretty much the same size. The Fluval is an outlier (much fatter)

None of this bodes well for adapting non Fluval cartridges to this device.


----------



## hockey9999

Sailnut, unfortunately you are exactly right. 

I somehow talked my girlfriend into letting me see the regulator before Christmas. 

It was very difficult to screw the Fluval cartridge in, even before getting close to puncturing the canister. 

It was impossible to get the Walmart canister in past about 1.5 - 2 turns.. 

With that said, the adapters we have all been talking about will definitely not work, at least not in theory. 

I think my plan at this point it to return the Fluval kit, despite the great reviews people have been giving it. 

I think I am going to go with a regulator regulator/solenoid setup, possibly from ebay. I have been researching the Aquatek regulator/Solenoid. It seems to get good reviews and is very reasonably priced. Because I plan to use this on the Fluval Ebi, I will get a CGA 320 - paintball tank adapter and use either a 20 or 24oz paintball canister because I don't have the space for a 5 pound canister where my Ebi will be going. 

I am kind of disappointed, I really like the Fluval kit. But when comparing the cost of replacing the 88g canisters, most likely once a month if not more due to having to run it 24 hrs/day, I will break even in just a few months when spending the extra $75-$100 (maybe even less) on a different set up. I would then also have the option of running multiple planted tanks off of 1 regulator in the future should I get more tanks, and I probably will lol . 

I do hope someone comes up with a solution for this at some point, I am sure there will be many happy users out there if someone works it out!

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!!

Hope everyone has a great holiday!


----------



## sailnut

I would think that anyone with a lathe could take a standard 88g cartridge and trim 1mm off it. In reality if I had a lathe I would machine mt own adapter and that would be the end of the story.

It's always possible that Fluval will release a propitiatory paintball to 88g adapter but that's unlikely at the moment.

I remain very wary of the unregulated paintball setups. They strike me as unsuited to smaller tanks and dangerous.

There is the option of an ADA adapter, a preset paintball co2 regulator, solenoid and needle valve. However when all is said and done little or nothing would be saved over a mas market regulator.

Which leaves the economy regulators several of which sell for around $80. The downside here is the size of things as they relate to a 20oz paintball tank. Sort of the tail wagging the dog. Yes there are some very nice miniature ones but the regulator alone costs more then $100 and with solenoid and such its pressing $200!

As for myself, I am keeping track as to how long the supplied cartridge lasts. This will give me a worst case scenario of usage. If I can get more then a month I may keep the Fluval. Also.. its possible that Big Al's or the like will sell the Fluval cartridge heavily discounted... but I doubt it!


----------



## kcharm

What if, and I'm just riffing here so shoot me down if this is not a good idea, you set it up like a remote paintball canister? 

In other words, you run a piece of copper pipe adapted to fit into the Fluval regulator on one end and adapted to fit a paintball tank on the other (or the Walmart disposable cartridge).

I'd have to have the two parts with me at a hardware store to sit a play, but does that sound plausible?

I'm going to be upgrading from the 20g kit that came with my Fluval Flora and I'm trying to figure out the most economical way to do so. Heck, I'm toying with the idea of doing what I'm suggesting above but with the 20g kit. I could then add a fitting to house a gauge on the outflow of the 'regulator' so I could gauge how low my pressure was and then add a needle valve and solenoid.


----------



## sailnut

The problem is the *NON* standard thread in the regulator body. Sure you could buy a paintball remote adapter but someone will have to machine it to match the regulator. Of course the advantage of this is that its a one shot deal. After that you can connect any paintball cylinder you want.


----------



## kcharm

OK, so probably won't find them at the big box stores, but what about specialty plumbing supply houses? Gas supply companies? Those places must occasionally have a need for those oddball thread sizes?

Heck, what about brazing the copper together and skip the threads all together? Would brazing withstand the pressure?


----------



## sailnut

Seeing that the thread is metric takes plumbing supply houses out of the equation. Doubtless a machine shop could make what you want but it would not be economic.

I suppose the neck could be sawed off a discharged cylinder and brazed or welded to the remote adapter. Not an endeavor for the faint of heart and to what purpose from the economic stand point?


----------



## Sharkfood

Just go to a machine shop, or find someone with a lathe. They can put any threads you want on brass block and drill a hole through it. This is so much easier than scouring the planet for commercial fittings that may or may not exist. 

Brazing might work but I would only trust it on the low pressure side. Threading 2 sides of a piece of brass will definitely work and only take a few minutes. I can't give an acurate price quote, but if you know a guy with his own lathe, or small town machine shop, he'd likely do it for a case of beer.

20 dollars would be worth the peace of mind IMO.


----------



## hockey9999

Well guys... I think I did it!!

Just braved the snow in NJ and went to Home Depot.. 

Here is what I got.


photo 1 by dougjacobs99, on Flickr

Watts A-183 3/8" Flare MIP - 3/8" MIP
Watts A-760 3/8" coupling
Watts A-776 3/8" male to 1/8" female 

In hind-sight I should have gotten a right angle 3/8" to 1/8" adapter or 3/8" coupling so I'll exchange it, but that's just for cosmetic reasons.

Cost - $8.41 with tax. 

And the result...!


photo 2 by dougjacobs99, on Flickr

It forms a nice tight seal with the o-ring in the regulator. Now, with a 1/8" male - 1/8" male fitting, some teflon tape, a paintball ASA and paintball tank, I am 99% confident that this will work!

Just as a test, you can see that the Fluval canister screws right into the Watts A-760 3/8" coupling. 


photo 1 by dougjacobs99, on Flickr


photo 2 by dougjacobs99, on Flickr

Let me know what you guys think!!


----------



## Jim Miller

--------

Jim


----------



## hockey9999

I won't. I will be using a paintball co2 tank which has a pin that a paintball air source adapter similar to this will depress. You can find these pretty cheap, maybe $15-$20. 










Alternatively, you could use a paintball remote system, which has an on/off valve. - This one in particular I just found on Amazon for $15. This could be a nice option to hide the tank, and just mount the regulator somewhere easily accessible. 










The fittings on the remote and air source adapter are standard 1/8" fittings that will work perfectly with the reducer I picked up.


----------



## Jim Miller

Yeah, I figured that out right after I posted. Need more coffee...

Jim


----------



## hockey9999

Haha no problem!


----------



## Clare12345

I am waiting to see if this works. If it is, it answers the question I just posted about which one to buy, and is so cheap! I have a 4 gallon tank. Would this work with the Fluval Mini CO2 20 also? 
Also it doesn't appear to have a bubble counter, but I can set one up, right?
Thanks!!


----------



## hockey9999

As far as I know the Fluval Mini kit uses a different size threads on the canisters. I would assume that something similar could be set up with parts from Home Depot, but I think the regulator on the 88g Kit is much nicer. 

I am not sure what to do next. I want to get co2 going, but am hesitant to set it all up without trying all of the paintball stuff with the regulator first.. 

I honestly can't imagine why it wouldn't work though. 

The tank fits the 3/8" female threads nicely, the one fitting threads very nicely into the regulator and you can feel it seating into the o-ring, and everything else is standard brass fittings that you would find in more expensive setups. Obviously the paintball stuff is designed for co2 use, so that isn't a concern at all.


----------



## Clare12345

Are there any downsides to using the setup you are mentioning in a 4 gallon? With the 88g regulator?


----------



## hockey9999

I wouldn't think so. 

To be honest, this is my first experience with using co2 so I am not the best person to answer that question. 

I plan to use it in my Fluval Ebi which is 8 gallons..


----------



## hockey9999

I remember Cento was concerned with the regulator being able to handle the pressure from a bigger tank. 


Cento said:


> I sent an enquiry to Fluval telling them I bought the kit, and I'll like to know what their regulator is rated at, and what the threads are. We'll see how long they take to get back to me. I think to know what psi the regulator can handle will be important in order to know how big a cylinder we can go to.


According to this site, the pressure in any co2 canister, regardless of size, is the same. And the only factor that can change pressure is temperature. 

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2dynamics.shtml#2


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## kcharm

I'm confused. I thought the goal here was to adapt to something other than than the fluval cartridge? It looks like you've built an adapter to get from the fluval regulator to the fluval 88g cartridge. Also, it looks like the fitting you used on the cartridge doesn't have a pin so I'm not sure how the co2 is going to get out of the cartridge. Please explain. 



hockey9999 said:


> Well guys... I think I did it!!
> 
> Just braved the snow in NJ and went to Home Depot..
> 
> Here is what I got.
> 
> 
> photo 1 by dougjacobs99, on Flickr
> 
> Watts A-183 3/8" Flare MIP - 3/8" MIP
> Watts A-760 3/8" coupling
> Watts A-776 3/8" male to 1/8" female
> 
> In hind-sight I should have gotten a right angle 3/8" to 1/8" adapter or 3/8" coupling so I'll exchange it, but that's just for cosmetic reasons.
> 
> Cost - $8.41 with tax.
> 
> And the result...!
> 
> 
> photo 2 by dougjacobs99, on Flickr
> 
> It forms a nice tight seal with the o-ring in the regulator. Now, with a 1/8" male - 1/8" male fitting, some teflon tape, a paintball ASA and paintball tank, I am 99% confident that this will work!
> 
> Just as a test, you can see that the Fluval canister screws right into the Watts A-760 3/8" coupling.
> 
> 
> photo 1 by dougjacobs99, on Flickr
> 
> 
> photo 2 by dougjacobs99, on Flickr
> 
> Let me know what you guys think!!


----------



## hockey9999

Well I havent purchased everything yet, so I can see the cause for your confusion. 

The last picture of the Fluval canister and brass fitting was simply to show how well that size brass fitting worked, that being a 3/8" female coupler, but the Watts A-183 3/8" Flare MIP - 3/8" MIP fits quite nice in the regulator. 

The missing piece of the puzzle is something like I posted in this post - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/119910-new-fluval-co2-kit-5.html#post1238562

Either a paintball air source adapter that will connect to the 1/8" reducer via an 1/8" male to 1/8" male brass fitting, or by using a paintball remote system, which has hoses that are terminated with 1/8" male fittings that usually screw into a quick disconnect valve on one and, and an on/off air source adapter on the other.. 

I hope that makes sense, but check out my previous post that I linked to above for pictures of the missing items I am talking about.


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## kcharm

I get it! You'll run the paintball tank with an on/off valve via hard plumbing or remote ot the fluval. Cool idea.


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## hockey9999

Exactly! Lets hope it works, leak free!


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## Cento

YEAHH HOCKEY9999!! YOU DA MAN/WOMAN/PERSON !! W O O T ! ! :bounce:

I'm going right now to home depot to get those fittings... when its all said an done, post a complete parts list (paintball tank size/type, fittings, tubing, etc).


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## sailnut

WONDERFUL!!! Please post the part list when its finalized.


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## hockey9999

I just found an old paintball air source adapter from my paintball days, so now I just need to find a tank, get it filled, and do some leak testing!

Keep in mind that the only piece from my list of brass fittings that is an absolute must is the Watts A-183 3/8" Flare MIP - 3/8" MIP. 

Everything else should be able to be put together to your liking, as long as it terminates in a female 1/8" fitting. 

I will update you guys in a few hours once I find a tank.. 

Doug


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## hockey9999

So here is the finished product! 


photo by dougjacobs99, on Flickr

Unfortunately it is attached to an old 20oz paintball canister (dated 2/97 lol). I will get a new one this afternoon. 

The only additional thing I purchased at Home Depot was a Watts A-716 1/8" MIP x 1-1/2" male-male fitting. 

The only thing I don't have a part number for is the 90º fitting, I had it laying around. It is a 1/8" male to 1/8" female fitting. 

All of the part's that I used, less the 90º fitting and air source adapter are as follows:

Total cost was about $10 at Home Depot-

Watts A-183 3/8" Flare MIP - 3/8" MIP
Watts A-760 3/8" female - female coupling
Watts A-776 3/8" male to 1/8" female 
Watts A-716 1/8" MIP x 1-1/2" male - male
Teflon Tape

On a side not, and as best as I can tell without disassembling the regulator, the nipple that the co2 hose connects to on the regulator appears to be 1/8" as well. With that said, there should be no reason that you couldn't remove the nipple, swap it out for another Watts A-716 fitting, and install a solenoid. I only mention it because I know some of you were posting about it in the solenoid thread.


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## kcharm

That looks so good that Im thinking about selling the erg I just bought on eBay, shipped this morning, and building that setup. The cost would end up similar, but the size of that is just so much better for my small tank and small space. 

Hmmmm


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## Jim Miller

Nice! A very similar arrangement could adapt to a CGA-320 as well for those looking for a 5lb tank solution.

jim


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## hockey9999

I haven't actually put any co2 through it yet, I don't anticipate there being any leaks but I will know for sure soon!

I figure though, a 20oz tank is about 6.5x larger then the 88g canister and you can get it filled for like $5 or so.. On my 8g Ebi, I bet I can at least get over a month out of it. 

This is probably going to make someone at Fluval pretty angry! I bet they were counting on making their money on the refills!


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## Jim Miller

Yup, razors and razor blades...

jim


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## hockey9999

What a perfect analogy!


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## Jim Miller

I think if CO2 became sufficiently popular as a result of more affordable equipment refill stations would be feasible at fish stores. There's not a lot to it. In fact that will likely be the measure of acceptance of CO2.

jim


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## Cento

The only thing I'm concerned about it what psi the fluval regulator can handle. I was planning on aiming low for my choice of refillable tank size (20 or less oz) and hoping that it would be somewhat compareable...


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## sailnut

The size of the tank has no bearing on the pressure. If its 33g or 10lbs is still about 1,000lb/sq_inch.


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## hockey9999

I was just about to say the same thing. I posted a link a page or so back that said the only variable that will effect pressure is the temperature of the canister.


----------



## Cento

sailnut said:


> The size of the tank has no bearing on the pressure. If its 33g or 10lbs is still about 1,000lb/sq_inch.


I was reading from my phone while waiting for my wife to finish her post-boxingday shopping, and I didn't read all postings properly... sorry.. thanks for linking that..

That's very interesting, and good to know. I just came back from Home Depot with the fittings...hockey9999, I am hanging on your ever text....:hihi:

I was impatient, and installed my kit last Friday; so I figure I have about a week or two before I need get cracking on the new setup...


----------



## Cento

Hey, side note... 













That tapered portion that makes contact with the rubber gasket; should that be machined/ground down to give it more contact surface and decrease the risk of eventually cutting the gasket?


----------



## hockey9999

I noticed that as well with the tapered part of the adapter, I little too late lol. It cut a perfect circle out of the gasket, but it still formed a perfect seal and didn't leak when testing it with co2 soapy water. All of the other brass fittings had great seals as well. 

Now on to the bad part of the story..

I got a paintball tank and got it filled. I put everything together, got the diffuser/bubble counter set up, and closed the valve on the regulator as the instructions told me to. 

I then screwed the canister in, the pressure gauge shot up to about 800psi. 

I then started to slowly open up the valve and NOTHING HAPPENED! No co2 was being released from the regulator. I cant imaging that anything that I did could have broken it. It would appear as if I received a defective regulator. No matter what I do with the valve adjustment knob, nothing happens. It seems to be stuck shut. 

Just my luck... and the place I got it from is out of stock and not expecting more until 1/7 at the earliest. 

At this point I am hesitant to tell anyone else to try my method of using a paintball tank. 

While I really doubt that it had anything at all to do with the type of canister I was using, I would hate to be responsible in any way for anything bad happening to someones equipment.


----------



## gringostar9

Should a solenoid be added to this set up if using on a small tank? would that help save co2


----------



## sailnut

<
I then started to slowly open up the valve and NOTHING HAPPENED! No co2 was being released from the regulator. I cant imaging that anything that I did could have broken it. It would appear as if I received a defective regulator. No matter what I do with the valve adjustment knob, nothing happens. It seems to be stuck shu>

Maybe the piercing pin in the regulator is pushed up at the time one inserts a new cartridge and allows the co2 to enter. This would make sense since the cylinder is not completely seated when it first contacts the piercing pin.

Obviously in such a situation gas would be discharged through the base of the regulator.

Probably works the same as an ASA fitting which depresses a pin on the tank when the screw on top is tightened.


----------



## hockey9999

I would agree with you if the pressure gauge were reading 0psi with the tank installed, but it is reading 800psi so there has to at least be co2 entering the body of the regulator...


----------



## sailnut

I just reread your post. Are you referring to the supplied Fluval canister?. If this is the case I had a similar situation which was cured by tightening the cylinder further into the regulator.

There is also a dead spot when the needle valve if first opened its about 1/4 of a turn. The first time I used the system I had a similar problem.

If the pressure gauge is responding its hard to believe that the regulator is not functioning.

For what its worth my unit always shows 1,000lbs pressure. Makes me think the tank is not completely seated.


----------



## hockey9999

I'm talking about my diy paintball mod.. But even with the needle valve wide open, I get nothing. I just inspected the piercing pin, there is no movement to it at all. 

I am hesitant to try the supplied canister. I purchased the kit online and if it is defective, I don't know how I will remove it while it's under full pressure should the valve still not work..

I wonder if I could have tightened the valve too much before attaching the co2, and broke it?


----------



## sailnut

Lets think about this... when the pin pierces the seal the co2 is released. Now, how is it admitted to the high pressure side of the regulator. I did not inspect the thing so this question is not rhetorical. 

It seems to me that when the pin punctures the cylunder the co2 could be released into the space between the washer mentioned above and the cavity it forms between the cylinder top and the bottom of the regulators entrance port.

Presuming I am correct here there should be hole(s) drilled which allow the gas to reach the hi-pressure side of the regulator.

Another alternative is that the gas flows between the tapered piercing needle and a guide tube which contains /guides it. The needle upon contact with the cylinder cap moves up the guide tube a bit exposing a circumferential bypass and then pierces the seal. Sounds mickey mouse but possible.

I don't see how you can proceed with your device until the piercing operation is understood.


----------



## hockey9999

The only hole in the cavity which the canister screws into is a small hole the size of a sewing needle right in the center of the puncturing pin. Then there is the hole drilled thru the side which I assume let's co2 escape in the event of there being a bad seal. 

Here is a pic with the o-ring removed. 










The only thing I can think of that would be causing my problems is the needle valve not opening.. 

Thanks for trying to help! I appreciate it!


----------



## sailnut

With the co2 disconnected back out the needle valve and see the exit port is plugged. Assuming the needle valve is on the low pressure side you should be able to blow through its fitting. Possibly there is piece of debris in the outlet.

Another thought is to disconnect the regulator from the bubble counter, with the needle valve reinserted hook it up to your co2 tank and plunge everything into a bucket of water. If you have a leak somewhere it would not be obvious at 3 or lbs/sq_inch.

Your 800lb pressure reading is suspicious.


----------



## Cento

Mine did that also, when I first started it up.

As infantile and simple as it sounds, have you tried opening it up slowly from a completely shut position? You said that you hooked up everything? Tube, diffusor, bubble counter and all? It took about a minute or so before my diffusor (rhinox 1000 brand instead of the given diffusor) started bubbling.

Keep us posted....:icon_cry:


----------



## sailnut

As an old time model airplane fanatic I have had a lot of experience with needle valves. I have never experienced or knew of a needle valve that broke from over tightening (by hand) What does happen is the seat scores a ring in the soft brass needle and the dammed things never totally shut off the supply.

Because my Fluval is pressurized I cannot disassemble it but I see no reason why you cannot back it from its guide and see if anything is screwed up.


----------



## hockey9999

Unfortunately the knob for the needle valve doesn't back all the way out. It unscrews a few turns and comes to a dead stop. Was that not the case with yours?

I did noticed that if I sucked on the hose barb(sounds terrible, I know), it created a vacuum. No air could be forced in or out of it. 

I went so far as to disconnect the tubing and just open the valve wide open after hooking the tank up, still noting coming from the hose barb. 

What is suspicious about 800psi? Not that I am doubting you, but I just googled it and found this - "At 70 degrees F, CO2 obtains a gas pressure of 852.8 psi when confined in a vessel. If there is more CO2 in the vessel, it will be have to be in liquid form." http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/co2/


----------



## Cento

mine runs at about 800-900psi...

also, yes, it seems the knob has a stop to prevent it from coming off...


----------



## hockey9999

Forget to add that I was concerned about debris getting into the regulator from me putting the brass fittings together, so I very quickly attached the tank, before attaching it to the regulator to flush anything out... Nothing visible came out though.


----------



## sailnut

If the issue is no bubbles... not to worry. The ceramic disc in the diffuser is supposed to soak in water for an hour.
I have had my unit for 2 weeks and the diffuser still does not start for about 5-10 minutes. However I do have bubbles in the bubble counter it just takes time to build up the pressure in the tubing and diffuser housing.

As I suggested above its best to start at the beginning by verifying your needle valve works and that their are no leaks in the source/supply components. Once thats cleared up the rest is simple.


----------



## Cento

sailnut said:


> If the issue is no bubbles... not to worry. The ceramic disc in the diffuser is supposed to soak in water for an hour.
> I have had my unit for 2 weeks and the diffuser still does not start for about 5-10 minutes. However I do have bubbles in the bubble counter it just takes time to build up the pressure in the tubing and diffuser housing.
> 
> As I suggested above its best to start at the beginning by verifying your needle valve works and that their are no leaks in the source/supply components. Once thats cleared up the rest is simple.


I second giving the system a chance to build up pressure...


----------



## hockey9999

Well then maybe I am just an impatient idiot!  I did give it about 5 minutes and didn't have a single bubble in the bubble counter. I was honestly expecting it to start bubbling more quickly. I will have to give it another try tomorrow.. Did I mention that this is my first time using a co2 set-up? As if I wasn't making that painfully clear!

I appreciate all of the help, I will let you guys know how it goes..


----------



## sailnut

Mine shows 1,000 and drops a bit after 8 or 9 hours running. Perhaps its just the gauge I dont have much confidence in its accuracy.

Presuming that you can demonstrate a leak free co2 supply chain but no low pressure output I would think that you have no alternative but to install the Fluval cylinder and see what happens. Obviously any body who buys the thing will install the cylinder and if the regulator fails to work complain to Fluval.

You have done nothing which would void the warranty and if it does not work with the supplied cylinder I am sure they will replace the unit.


----------



## sailnut

If you don't have bubbles in the bubble counter there is no low pressure flow so the problem is in the supply tank or the regulator. The submersion test I recommended with demonstrate the integrity of your connections. Try this...disconnect the bubble counter and plug the feed hose with a machine screw so it cannot leak. Connect the paintball supply to pressurize the regulator and open the needle valve a turn to pressurize the entire system. Now turn off the ASA valve and touch nothing else. Whats happening with the pressure over time?

Experience shows that it best to start at the beginning of the chain (paintball tank/regulator... ) and verify its each ones individual integrity integrity. At least you will have isolated the problem and focus your efforts on solving the issue.


----------



## TLE041

Hockey, is your unit working now? If it doesn't, you should consider getting a replacement from Petsolutions or Hagen.

Also, using that paintball valve as a solenoid is an interesting possibility. Let us know how it works out.


----------



## hockey9999

No, it's still not working. I submerged the valve/ fittings in water. I discovered 1 small leak from one of the brass fittings, probably about a bubble a second. I really doubt it's effecting the regulator though. Even with the valve wide open, nothing came out the low pressure side. 

Right now the asa I am connecting the tank to doesn't have an on/off. Assuming I can get a replacement regulator and things working, I will probably order one from amazon with an on/off for about $15. 

I may try the 88g canister tonight, but I don't think my co2 source is the issue...


----------



## sailnut

<Right now the asa I am connecting the tank to doesn't have an on/off>

What do you mean by that? I thought the entire purpose of an ASA was to depress the pin on the paintball tank so that the co2 could flow through the output port(s) of the ASA.

I took a look at my Fluval reg this morning. It looks like the outlet fitting will come off easily. I would take it off and see if something is clogging it. I continue to find it difficult to accept the proposition the the NV is no good! All the dammed thing consists of is a tapered needle that screws in and out of a small hole. Defective NV's either cant adjust the flow or cannot shut it off. Flow failures are almost always associated with blockage, leaks or debris in the flow passage.

My gut feeling is that there is an issue involving the piercing needle and the chamber surrounding it. Some mention was made of cutting the gasket which seals the inserted cylinder neck. Maybe there is something here? How long is the threaded portion of the adapter in relation to the cylinder. I can measure the length of the exposed threading on my cylinder and from that you can determine the cavity volume around the pin. In photos of the Fluval and other 88g adapters I always see the threads terminating below a shoulder. I wonder if the shoulder seats itself on the flat surrounding the piercing needle. In combination with the gasket there could only be gas flow through the orifice in the pin. It looks to me that there is a good deal of empty volume within the adapter part itself.

Connect a piece of tubing to the ASA put the tube in water and see if you can get bubbles. Repeat with just the adepter train and see if it still works.

If you turn off the ASA valve and then back the adapter from the regulator do you hear an escape of gas? When pushed, does the piecing pin partially retract into the regulator body Using the ASA valve can you control the flow volume from the paintball cylinder? Does co2 flow easily through the adapter chain?
I suggest the possibility that you can display the pressure in the feed cylinder but the flow rate is to low to produce bubbles..


----------



## sailnut

Here is a cross section of a piercing pin inserted into a disposal co2 tank. The tank is on the right. The pin is centered. It appears to me that the pin is spring loaded and is pushed back (opening a port to the regulator) when a cartridge is inserted.


----------



## sailnut

Here is a Photo-Shopped enlargement of the pin assembly in the Fluval regulator. To me it appears to be inserted in a sleeve affair as illustrated in the Leland cutaway above..

Assuming that my analysis is correct you will have to devise some way to depress the pin or in the alternative remove it!

I am coming to the conclusion that its going to be a major challenge to adapt this part to a paintball tank.

When my tank runs out I will probably buy a Milwaukee dual gauge Regulator/solenoid/bubble counter/needle valve assembly from aquariumplants.com for $87. They offer free shipping and $10 off my next purchase which would be a 2.5lb aluminum tank ($50 shipped with above credit.

When you figure the lower running costs and convenience of such a setup its probably the best thing to do.


----------



## hockey9999

Thanks everyone for all of the research and comments!

While it is definitely a possibility that the piercing pin moves, not matter how much force I applied to it would make it budge.. 

So I finally decided to give the 88g canister a try.. There is definitely something wrong with the regulator. After attaching the canister, placing the low pressure side under water, and opening the valve, there was still no co2 released. 

At this point I am going to just do what I can to return the kit and look for a decent regulator that I can use along with the 20oz paintball tank that I now have.. 

Thanks again for all of the help!


----------



## hockey9999

Just got of the phone with the store I got it from, they said that I am not the first person to call them with issues and they suspect that they are currently out of stock and not expecting another shipment for a week or 2 as the result of some kind of manufacturing problem. 

At this point, I am just going to look in to another option for co2. 

I wish everyone else with this system the best of luck!


----------



## Cento

I'll admit this doesn't look good...:icon_cry:

Especially after I did some research on freepatantsonline, and found there is indeed a spring-loaded piercing system out there for compressed gas systems. However, most that i researched involved a "jerk" system where the user pulls a lever that releases the pin to come down and puncture the seal.

BUT.... since I already have the fittings, I'm gonna go ahead and try to adapt this to a paintball system (now to find one..:icon_roll). I have an old contact that works for Praxair, who knows more on this subject then I do, and see what he has to say. If it fails, I'll just get another regulator for it. 
I'll post my finding here.

*hockey9999*, thanks so much for trying... :icon_frow 

Seeing how many views this thread got, I'm sure a lot of other people benefited...


----------



## shom

*Fluval CO2 88 Kit REVIEW*.

What a ripoff! *

IF YOU ARE IN MONTREAL, QUEBEC, CANADA.*
You can get this product for low as $90 at Aqua Tropical; $150.00 at Safari "MY GOD" and other stores. 
*IF YOU BUY ONLINE *
It would cost low as $65-70, plus shipping and handling.

IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT LAST ATLEAST A MONTH AND LOW MAINTENACE COST, LOW REFILL/REPLACEMENT COST, *FLUVAL CO2 88 KIT IS NOT YOUR CHOICE*, UNLESS YOU RUN IT 1BPS 2-3 HOURS (ONLY) EVERYDAY.

THE REGULATOR FOR THIS UNIT IS MADE TO HANDLE SMALL CYLINDER. Compatibity for overall equipment, even if you find an adapter to fit Paintball Catridge or regular 5LB CO2. *YOU WILL SIMPLY AND SLOWLY DESTROY YOUR REGULATOR*. IF YOU'RE WILLING TO SPEND $100 ON THIS, PLUS ADAPTER AND ETC. PLEASE SPEND ANOTHER 100 AND MAKE YOURSELF A CUSTOM CO2 KIT THAT IS SUITABLE TO YOUR NEEDS FOR A LONG RUN. ALL YOU GOTTA DO IS TO LOOK FOR PARTS.

PARTS ARE AVAILABLE NOT ONLY ONLINE AND PAINTBALL SHOPS, BUT *ALSO TRY AT BEER/HOMEBREW SHOPS*. 
IN MONTREAL, CO2 CYLINDER 20LB LOW AS $90, MANY REGULATORS UNDER $100 BETTER THAN fluval ONE, TUBE AND CHECK VALVES FOR $20, SOME CO2 DIFFUSER at petstores for $5. GUARD-X REFILLS 20LB CO2 LOW AS $19.99+TAX. (EVERYTHING MUST COST LESS IN USA)

PLEASE DONT REPEAT MY MISTAKE.

*MY STORY*
Started with 30gl 4 yrs ago, then recently changed to 90gl. Taking my hobby to next level with not only fish but plants also. I was looking for CO2 system. 
Sales person convinced me that, FLUVAL CO2 88, its a good one compared to those selfmade for $200-300. Was $119.00 on price tag, gave me instant rebate of 25%, so $90.00+tax. Said should last 2-2nhalf months if you use 6-7 hrs 1-2 bps everyday, bring back the cylinder for refill will cost $10. I know its not enough for a 90gl, anything is more than nothing.
6 days, yes it lasted for 6 days, then out. THERE IS A MINI VERSION OF THIS, HOW LONG THAT SUPPOSE TO LAST I DONT KNOW.
IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM ONLY WITH MY UNIT, BUT I PREFER NOT TO TAKEE MY CHANCES WITH EXCHANGE, PLUS NO1 CUD ACCURATELY PROVIDE INFO ON THIS, NOT SALES PERSON, NOR HAGEN'S CSR.
Not only that, only 1 tube, not even long enough for my 30gl. Plus, no check valve n water kept draining from bubble counter into the tube. I added extra tube and two check valves myself.
I've been a steady customer for Aqua Tropicale for almost 4 years, spent over $5000 untill I bought this piece of trash. I had never complained or return or exchange prior this incident. As I called the store, manager in charge refused to take it back, said this is a new product and we dont know anything, told me to deal with Hagen myself. As I asked to refill the cylinder, they said you gotta buy those "pack of 3 for $60". WHAT HAPPEN TO $10 REFILL?
I told them, F & S sells for a less than you, still I buy from you. They showed me a catalogue with their cost price. 
*AQUA TROPICALE MONTREAL*, where I bought all my stuffs, Sales Person always sold me with a lie that most of products come with 30 days warranty, some with 3 yrs; so i can simply bring it back to their store and they will exchange or give credit. Asked why? Answer they are whole seller, they will simply send back to the company. Yes, they have the lowest price in MTL, *but exchange and credit is a lie. I am literary shocked by their after sales service, their commitment & appreciation to loyal customer, which really sucks. *
Luckily, Hagen's HeadOffice based in Montreal, I left detailed messege on their CSR's voicemail.
In the mean time, took whole kit to the store, just threw it over thE counter and told them to send it to Hagen themselve. Manager agreed to send, but no credit or exchange. 
Today, HAGEN's CSR called me back, said "it's a new product, we dont know much about it either, but it shouldnt have lasted only 6 days". Emailed her the receipt. She was nice, agreed to send me a Gift Certificate of $90.00+tax, valid at any Hagen's Dealer, limited to Hagen's Product only. Now that $100.00 gift certificate, i gotta spend on unnecessary Hagens trash.

FORGET "AQUA TROPICALE INC", MONTREAL BASED FRANCHISEE. 
Found two new petstores (DIRECT IMPORT): aquatica on transcanadienne and aquarius on jean-talon, i'll go visit their store with my gift cert. soon

Happy new year 2011 everyone


----------



## bustah8

So...the regulators are junk. I just had one of the 20g mini systems running for 3 days before the regulator failed.


----------



## M. F

reading all your stories with Fluval kit ... I'm quite afraid with my mini 22g kit...

do you guys know if we can use 88g bottle on the 22g mini system ?


----------



## sailnut

That would require an adapter which would fit the small orifice of the 22g regulator. Given the fact that no one has located an adapter which allows a common 88g tank to mate with the larger Fluval regulator I would think that you are out of luck.


----------



## sauce

This looks like a great starter kit for what its worth, except for the expensive refills. What are the alternatives in the next price range? Something that can take a paintball tank?


----------



## M. F

sailnut said:


> That would require an adapter which would fit the small orifice of the 22g regulator. Given the fact that no one has located an adapter which allows a common 88g tank to mate with the larger Fluval regulator I would think that you are out of luck.



I guess you re right...
Thx


----------



## GitMoe

Honestly Im not sure what everybody is complaining about. I bought my 88g kit the first week in December. I've been using it on my 30c at 1bps 24/7 since then. The pressure gauge is still reading at about 600psi. The regulator hasn't failed, Ive been getting extremely consistent bubble counts, and everything works flawlessly. 

I agree that if you don't want to spend $12 per bottle for replacement Co2 then this system isn't for you. The kit advertises one bottle should last around 3 months and so far I should get close to that or a little shorter. Sometimes there are amazing products that can be modded and changed to make it one of those lightening in a bottle events. But that is a rare occurrence. The system works exactly as advertised. 

As soon as PetSolutions has them in stock again I'll be ordering a second kit to use on a MrAqua 12g long tank Im setting up. This kit is extremely compact and I don't setup tanks in traditional stands where there is room to hide equipment. All my tanks are out in the open and the equipment must fit directly behind a nano tank. I love this 88g kit and highly recommend it to anybody...


----------



## Noahma

hockey9999 said:


> Just got of the phone with the store I got it from, they said that I am not the first person to call them with issues and they suspect that they are currently out of stock and not expecting another shipment for a week or 2 as the result of some kind of manufacturing problem.
> 
> At this point, I am just going to look in to another option for co2.
> 
> I wish everyone else with this system the best of luck!


Sorry it did not work out well for you. It looks like the price of the kit is comparable to a kit that works very well in my opinion. You can still use your paintball tanks, but top it off with http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4531/product.web

I have one on my 36 gal and so far it works PERFECT.


----------



## bobp9500

I'm with "Gitmoe"-----I am satisfied with mine too.
Seems to do all it is supposed to and it's working fine.----boB


----------



## wastewater

If it's alright with the OP of this thread, I'd like to weigh in on the subject. Without a doubt, this has been an interesting thread... lots of different/varying experiences, opinions, and results.

I purchased one of these co2 kits in December for $45. Set it up using the supplied equipment that came along with this kit. Dialed it down to about 1 bubble every 3 seconds, 24 hours a day. Was very pleased with the unit's consistency (holding a steady/accurate bubble count). First cartridge lasted approx. 2 weeks. Second cartridge lasted about 9 days. Checked all connections (input/output connections, tubing, bubble counter, diffuser) and everything appeared a-okay.

Thought it was strange... expending 2 cartridges in a very short time-frame, especially since I have been using 3 other similar co2 units (the ones' that have the the regulator adjustment knob mounted 'UP' on top). Those cartridges have been lasting about 4 months @ a rate of 1 bubble every 3-4 seconds, 24 hours a day.

Decided to put a new cartridge on the Fluval and dipped the entire unit underwater. To my surprise, 5-6 bubbles per second were leaking from the the pressure gauge (the connector that threads into the regulator body). 
I know I could screw out the pressure gauge, tape the threads, tighten it back-up, and it should be good to go. The drawback would be loosing another cartridge, but more importantly, this device is supposed to have a 2-year warranty. I got in touch with Rolf C Hagen about my problem today... I am waiting for a reply. I'll see what they say, and find out if they honor their warranty.


----------



## wolffian

bought one of these on dec 11,( the 88g one) the kid at the store told me the 88g canister would last about 3 months, so I took it home, canister cracked open at 400 psi and was empty in the morning. I took it back to the store, had them attacha new one, while I was there.. it opened at 600 psi and was empty by morning.. So I figured it must be the valve.. the store exchanged the whole kit for me and I made them crack the seal in front of me in the store.. opened at 900 psi.. took it home and it fell to 700 by the next morning.. from there it last and worked very well until Dec 23rd.. I called Hagen and they had NO IDEA wow long the canisters are scheduled to last.. So I called the store 
and talked to the local rep.. HE said the 88g CANISTERS AT 0NE BUBBLE PER SECOND ARE RATED TO LAST 20 DAYS .. he and the store accepted the return. Both the rep and the store were quite proffessional.
SO.. at 1 bubble per second , and at $20 per month operating cost, this kit has an
initial operating cost of $300. 
Figure $70 for the kit plus $20 a month .. and thats if all canisters are consistant and full, and dont leak.
The websites are just now alluding to the 3 week life expectancy.

Make your own decisions, just make an informed one..


----------



## wolffian

to be clear.. it's an "initial" annual operating cost off $300 

$70 for the kit and 20 x 12 months ($240 + $70) with no leaks and a good valve

if you are going to buy this.. I would highly recommend teflon tape between the canister 
and the valve as well as the output to the bubble counter. the instructions do not 
include this advice .. and I didnt see anywhere where that it said the 88g canisters would last 3 months or any other time frame


----------



## sailnut

In my experience the 3 weeks at 24hr/day is reasonable... perhaps a little optimistic!


----------



## Lance Uppercut

GitMoe said:


> Honestly Im not sure what everybody is complaining about. I bought my 88g kit the first week in December. I've been using it on my 30c at 1bps 24/7 since then. The pressure gauge is still reading at about 600psi. The regulator hasn't failed, Ive been getting extremely consistent bubble counts, and everything works flawlessly.


+1
Been running 1 bubble every 2 sec 24/7 on a 12gal cube for three weeks exactly and am still at 900psi. Overall, happy with unit. Only negative is valve can be a little touchy getting initial bubble count set.


----------



## GitMoe

wolffian said:


> to be clear.. it's an "initial" annual operating cost off $300
> 
> $70 for the kit and 20 x 12 months ($240 + $70) with no leaks and a good valve
> 
> if you are going to buy this.. I would highly recommend teflon tape between the canister
> and the valve as well as the output to the bubble counter. the instructions do not
> include this advice .. and I didnt see anywhere where that it said the 88g canisters would last 3 months or any other time frame


ISTA WaterPlant makes a kit that is basically identical to this Fluval kit. Except the ISTA kit comes with a 95g bottle. In their description is claims several months out of a single bottle. That may be where I was pulling that number from. If I had to guess I'd say the same company that makes the ISTA kit manufactures the kit for Fluval. They are way too similar to think otherwise...


----------



## Lance Uppercut

GitMoe said:


> If I had to guess I'd say the same company that makes the ISTA kit manufactures the kit for Fluval. They are way too similar to think otherwise...


I agree. For example check out the ceramic diffusers, they're identical except the fluval one has black plastic, and the fluval one is cheaper too!


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## sailnut

The Fluval uses an 88g bottle. The Insta a 95g cartridge (7% more). Since the Fluval refill is supposed to last 3 weeks the 95g would be hard pressed to last a month!


----------



## Lance Uppercut

The length of the life of the cartridge is going to depend on how many bps you are running. Therefore there cannot be any one correct answer to this question.


----------



## wolffian

Im trying to find where I read this... I'm pretty sure it was on the Hagen website... 
Now, I can't even find the product on it..
Mine held it's psi too.. then it dropped over nite.. keep us updated guys.. 
I wanted this system to work, but if this is truly a 21 day canister, I'm out.. I wanted my self and store the oppurtunity to return it to Hagen before it was too late.
No store is gonna let you return this 5 months down the road after you 
discover that you are buying non refillable, unreliable canisters all the time.
Since that is what the Sacramento Hagen rep said, that is what I am going by.
This product has only been on the market since 12/10.. so it's not possible to have 
anyone say they know they last 3 or even 2 months by experience. 
Now.. if Hagen produced a refillable 20Z canister for about $40 .. Im back on board..


----------



## TLE041

Some good news on using generic cartridges with this kit:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/74496-new-fluval-co2-kit.html#post575708


----------



## Betta Maniac

TLE041 said:


> Some good news on using generic cartridges with this kit:
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/74496-new-fluval-co2-kit.html#post575708


Which turned in bad news . . .  It blew out.


----------



## wastewater

*[/QUOTE] *Decided to put a new cartridge on the Fluval and dipped the entire unit underwater. To my surprise, 5-6 bubbles per second were leaking from the the pressure gauge (the connector that threads into the regulator body). I got in touch with Rolf C Hagen about my problem today... I am waiting for a reply. I'll see what they say, and find out if honor their warranty.*[/QUOTE]*



Hagen U.S.A honored their warranty and repaired the problem I was experiencing (it was about a 3-week wait: mailing the unit back to their facilities, getting it repaired, and having them re-ship to my front door). Re-installed a new cartridge onto the repaired unit. The pressure gauge throttled-up (to a hair) over 900 psi. Dialed it 'in' to 1 bubble every 3 seconds, running 24/7. Almost 3 weeks down the road and the pressure gauge is showing about 850... bubble count has been consistent, holding an accurate 1 bubble @ 3 seconds. So far, so good. Appears the original leak was a "quality-control" problem from the manufacturer's end.

View attachment 27672


----------



## Robotguy

A question for those of you that have one of these that works well; Is this a true regulator, or just a valve? I picked up a Clippard Mouse solenoid to put on one of these, but if it's not a real regulator, it will just go to 900psi when the valve closes. Boom!


----------



## wastewater

Loosely defined, a regulator is just a device to control the flow of gases, liquids, etc.

Because there is no primary pressure reducer (which takes high pressure from the tank to a lower, more constant pressure), the Fluval's valve basically just pierces a cartridge. The discharge is controlled by a needle valve (allowing high pressure to be reduced). 

I'm not familiar with the Clippard mouse solenoid, but you might be successful with using something like ADA's El valve.

I've been using the Fluval system on a heavily-planted 3 gallon set-up. Running about 1 bubble every 2.5 seconds 24 hours a day. It keeps the co2 level to where I want it... have encountered no problems with livestock. After Hagen repaired my unit, it has been running like a charm (pressure gauge is showing 850psi and the cartridge has been going strong, over a month and a half now).


----------



## Robotguy

wastewater said:


> Loosely defined, a regulator is just a device to control the flow of gases, liquids, etc.


I know I sound like a poodyhead*, but there's a big difference. A regulator is something that regulates which implies maintaining a setpoint:


> Regulate: (2)To adjust to a particular specification or requirement: regulate temperature.


whereas control is much less deterministic:


> Control: To exercise influence over, to suggest or dictate the behavior of, oversit.


An ASA valve for instance cannot be called any kind of regulator because if conditions change, the output changes. A true regulator on the other hand will adjust to changing conditions (within some range) to maintain a set output. If I put a solenoid on a valve-only system, I'll pop my tubing at best. If the solenoid and the tubing can handle the pressure, I could end up exploding a diffuser when the solenoid opens again and tries to force 900psi into it.



wastewater said:


> Because there is no primary pressure reducer (which takes high pressure from the tank to a lower, more constant pressure), the Fluval's valve basically just pierces a cartridge. The discharge is controlled by a needle valve (allowing high pressure to be reduced).


So you are saying that the 88g Fluval kit is just a restrictor, like an ASA valve, not a pressure regulator? That would be a bummer because I really liked the size and I don't think the cost would be too horrendous for a 3.5 gallon tank.

*That's what I call my teenage daughters when they get whiney and annoying.


----------



## sailnut

It's a pressure regulator. There is no way to adjust the pressure its fixed. In my experience it will hold a slow bubble count for a long time. I found that after a while it was impossible to totally shut-off the flow with the needle valve.


----------



## mcubed45

wastewater said:


> Loosely defined, a regulator is just a device to control the flow of gases, liquids, etc.


a regulator maintains a constant output pressure.

a needle valve controls flow while leaving pressure unchanged.

they're two completely different devices with different purposes.


----------



## Swan900

Ive had a similar one to this. Since then I hate these small CO2 kits and refillables. If you tank is moderately planted and over 10L then you will go through these cartriges like mad! I had one on my 6.3g and I was getting atleast one a month. People advise getting the best CO2 setup you can for a reason, in a year or so you would have paid it off, and regulators more controllable. 

The valves on these are rubbish, your constantly changing and fiddling with it multiple times daily just to get a steady bps rate. When you do get the rate you want, a couple hours later and its slowed up again. Made me go mad! But as a posative these Fluval ones are built alot better than the others I have seen, look more crisp to for that modern look. But overall I dont think there worth the hastle and performance when a bit more money can buy you a reliable and affective CO2 system that outlasts this by months.

Swan


----------



## Road507

*Fluval Co2 88g connected to Paintball tank*

I finally was able to connect a 24oz paintball tank to the Fluval regulator. If you buy the adapter to fit the paintball 88g cylinders you can just take the adapter to any machine shop and have them just run a die over the treads that screw into the regulator. I can't remember the thread size but it worked like a charm. This is the cheapest method and will only cost $14.99 for the adaptor. 

I did not do this but it will work. I purchased the remote for the paintball tank and then connected this to the fluval regulator with a machined fitting cost $10.00. However while I was getting this made I had the guy run a die over the threads of the airsource 88g paintball cylinder. I was able to then use the Airsource paintball cylinder as a direct replacement for the Fluval 88g cylinder. So if you don't want to connect it to the larger refillable tanks you can just buy the cheaper Airsource ones and get the threads done.


----------



## Road507

*Fluval Co2 88 picture*



Road507 said:


> I finally was able to connect a 24oz paintball tank to the Fluval regulator. If you buy the adapter to fit the paintball 88g cylinders you can just take the adapter to any machine shop and have them just run a die over the treads that screw into the regulator. I can't remember the thread size but it worked like a charm. This is the cheapest method and will only cost $14.99 for the adaptor.
> 
> I did not do this but it will work. I purchased the remote for the paintball tank and then connected this to the fluval regulator with a machined fitting cost $10.00. However while I was getting this made I had the guy run a die over the threads of the airsource 88g paintball cylinder. I was able to then use the Airsource paintball cylinder as a direct replacement for the Fluval 88g cylinder. So if you don't want to connect it to the larger refillable tanks you can just buy the cheaper Airsource ones and get the threads done.


 
Here is a picture


----------



## TLE041

That looks great! The line joining the paintball canister and the regulator looks like the perfect place to put a solenoid.


----------



## Road507

The Solenoid would be a direct connection at the tank or at the regulator with this setup.


----------



## Robotguy

sailnut said:


> It's a pressure regulator. There is no way to adjust the pressure its fixed.


Got it, thanks.

One more question (OK, two related questions):

1) Any idea what the pressure is set at?

1b) Is it set high enough to run one of the high pressure diffusers (like from GLA)?

I really like the size for my 3.5G automatic nano, but unless all of these ducks are willing to line up in a nice neat row for me, I'll have to find another way to do it.


----------



## Cento

I thought I'd dig this thread up to confirm *Road507* setup. For me, he/she solved the last piece of the puzzle....

As seen at page 7 of this thread, I figured out a way to connect the Fluval Regulator to whatever setup I was attempting to attach with a piece found at Home Depot (see image I placed in a post on page 7). The Fluval regulator was not "spring actuated" as was speculated at that point.

The missing link was a part that could connect the 24oz (or whatever size) refillable container to all (about 3 pieces in total) the brass fittings that were going into the regulator. I went to Home Depot, Canadian Tire and a few other department stores and speciality stores (Paintball shops), and left with no resolution.

The *final* piece.... was the coiled remote adaptor used for paintball guns. It was, in my experience, the only way to connect the container to the setup. Its sucks on one hand because the remote cost over $60. But on the brighter side, it also has a knob that allows you to control the amount of depression placed on the pin valve, thereby controlling how much pressure goes to your Fluval Regulator.

I hope this doesn't crush my chances of one day working for Fluval.. :hihi:

Anyway, it finally worked for me. I know some may say it would have been faster, less time consuming, less frustrating, and arguably perhaps cheaper, but... well, it is what it is. It was a matter of prinicpal.... 

So, if anyone has this setup and has been wondering how to convert what they have to a refillable setup, this is "one" way (the only one I've come across) to do that.


----------



## TLE041

That's great news, Cento.

Can you post a picture of this setup?


----------



## SuperWen

cheap alternative:

ISTA CO2 set ($15)


















Replacement Cylinder ($7 for 3 cylinder)


----------



## Stevenicoloconnor

Cento said:


> As seen at page 7 of this thread, I figured out a way to connect the Fluval Regulator to whatever setup I was attempting to attach with a piece found at Home Depot (see image I placed in a post on page 7.)


...by chance, do you know and can you share more details about this connector: size, type, or brand?

Thanks!


----------



## hockey9999

I posted a list of the parts I came up with in this post... 

I believe it was the Watts A-183 3/8" Flare MIP - 3/8" MIP

I ended up returning my kit though because my Regulator was defective..


----------



## Stevenicoloconnor

hockey9999 said:


> I posted a list of the parts I came up with in this post...
> 
> I believe it was the Watts A-183 3/8" Flare MIP - 3/8" MIP
> 
> I ended up returning my kit though because my Regulator was defective..


...thanks, I already have that list made.


----------



## Cento

TLE041 said:


> That's great news, Cento.
> 
> Can you post a picture of this setup?


 
Sure.. this is a pick of the setup... 












And, as *hockey9999* mentioned, it was he who came up with the parts list (thanks again)... roud:

Thanks for the tip *SuperWen*. However, disposable powerlets was precicely what I was trying to avoid. At one bubble pers second, an 88 gr powerlet lasts me 12-14 days. This I expect will last *FAR *longer, and for 5 dollars, I get it refilled at a paintball shop 5 minutes from my house.


----------



## SuperWen

Cento said:


> Thanks for the tip *SuperWen*. However, disposable powerlets was precicely what I was trying to avoid. At one bubble pers second, an 88 gr powerlet lasts me 12-14 days. This I expect will last *FAR *longer, and for 5 dollars, I get it refilled at a paintball shop 5 minutes from my house.


100% agree,,
I purchased that disposable cylinder only for nano tank exhibition purposes.. for my 1gallon tank


----------



## hockey9999

Cento said:


> Sure.. this is a pick of the setup...
> 
> And, as *hockey9999* mentioned, it was he who came up with the parts list (thanks again)... roud:


Looks awesome! 

I'm glad that someone got it working. I guess this confirms my assumption that my Regulator was 100% defective because it should have worked the way I set it up too.


----------



## Stevenicoloconnor

*88 g. CO2*

...after using the Fluval high-pressure CO2 88g system for 9 days, we transitioned through angst, frustration, doubt, and episodes of vulgarity; however, we have found that the system does work as advertised with small tanks (ours is only 29 gallon), in our case, with some tinkering with the system it seems to keep CO2 in the "ideal" 15-35 ppm range with the pressure holding steady, and dropping slightly.

Perhaps it is 'cause the smallish glass diffuser we have installed (20mm), but we can't get CO2 levels > 30-40 ppm no matter the bubble count; for example, @170+ bpm at the start of the photoperiod, pH ~36 ppm; with a bubble count @50 bpm at the start of the photoperiod pH ~23 ppm.

We could increase hardness (kh 3); however, plant and fish life is well, and the slight BBA outbreak that we found after being on vacation for a week is vanishing; again, thank you Tom Barr for the Estimative Index system!roud:

...fwiw, for the fittings for the paintball conversion as on the aforementioned p.7, the total cost: $10.09


----------



## Cento

hockey9999 said:


> Looks awesome!
> 
> I'm glad that someone got it working...


 
Hey, thanks! :icon_mrgr

Its stuff like this that makes Forums like this shine... People working together to solve a problem.. Thanks to the original poster of the thread and contributers...roud:


----------



## Stevenicoloconnor

*...total paint-ball conversion cost*

...were were able to locate a 3-pack of the Fluval 88 canisters for $42.98.

For $4.55 more +teflon tape, parts can be purchased on-line and assembled to build a system like Hockey and Cento's design; this is what we have paid, including shipping:
paint ball remote: $17.44
20 oz. CO2 canister: $16.99
canister refill: $3.99
fittings to link Fluval "regulator" to paint-ball remote: $10.90
Total: $47.53


----------



## Stevenicoloconnor

...after the conversion will standard Fluval CO2 88 bottles work too?


----------



## Concelor

Finally found some new canisters for my system, but cannot find the nut to secure the hose to the regulator, anyone know a god work around or where I can buy a spare?


----------



## Stevenicoloconnor

Stevenicoloconnor said:


> ...after the conversion will standard Fluval CO2 88 bottles work too?


...given that no modification to the Fluval regulator was necessary, I suspect that a CO2 88 canister will work; to verify, when the current paintball 20 oz runs out, I'll attach an 88 canister.


----------



## Stevenicoloconnor

Concelor said:


> Finally found some new canisters for my system, but cannot find the nut to secure the hose to the regulator, anyone know a god work around or where I can buy a spare?


...using Hockey's parts list (the Watts fittings listed on Pg. 7 of this string), a standard paintball remote line, which can be found on Amazon, will fit into the regulator.


----------



## Submarinr

*Paintball CO2*

many thanks to everyone who worked out all these kinks and documented their progress.

Hockey, what system did you eventually settle on post fluval issue? I may have missed that.

I am in the process of setting up an ADA Mini M and a nano system like thi would be great.

thanks again for the primer :bounce:


----------



## sammiewags

Like Submarinr said* "many thanks to everyone who worked out all these links and documented their progress" *

This post/topic has been a life saver to me having no knowledge of where to even start with the CO2 system. After reading this.. I went and picked up the fittings at home depot " THANK YOU hockey9999 " and the pictures submitted by Cento and everyone else has been a HUGE Help!! Pictures are always a big help!! I also ordered the fluval CO2 88 online for $45 and the coilded remote. I have to now get a different diffuiser and bubble counter.. but now atleast I can say I am heading in the right direction!! 

Thank you everyone!!


----------



## Uptown193

I just purchased the Fluval over the weekend and I like it a lot even though I have no experience about CO2, this is my first. But I started a thread about my plants dying and I mentioned this setup and I was told that it is not good CO2 and that when my 88g tank finishes do not use it no more. Did I make a mistake by buying this system. It seems like you guys like it. I do no know why this member was saying negative things about it. But he did mention that he build regulators. Do you guys who are running this system feel it is good enough to use?


----------



## talontsiawd

Uptown193 said:


> I just purchased the Fluval over the weekend and I like it a lot even though I have no experience about CO2, this is my first. But I started a thread about my plants dying and I mentioned this setup and I was told that it is not good CO2 and that when my 88g tank finishes do not use it no more. Did I make a mistake by buying this system. It seems like you guys like it. I do no know why this member was saying negative things about it. But he did mention that he build regulators. Do you guys who are running this system feel it is good enough to use?


I am not running the system. I know that the product was actually faulty when it came out. The real downside to the system is the cartridges get expensive pretty quickly. On my tank, it would cost me about $50 per month, judging by people's experiences.

If you go through this thread, you can see people have adapted it to work with a much larger paintball bottle. Not only is it much larger, you can get them refilled for only about $5, where a 3 pack of Fluval cartridges costs about $50. 

I wouldn't say it is a bad idea at all, but I would modify it to work with a 24 oz bottle in the future. Details are in the thread.


----------



## talontsiawd

Would I be correct in the fact that you don't need the remote airline tube to get this to work with a 24 oz tank? I have seen paintball bottles with an on/off switch but I read they are known to leak. I have also seen both replacement stems, as well as attachments that become an on/off switch so the pin is not an issue. I am thinking about doing it that way. Anything I am overlooking?


----------



## Zerocon

All I want to know is, can you hook it up with a larger , paintball co2 canister, and how? Quick and easy answer please?


----------



## Uptown193

Zerocon said:


> All I want to know is, can you hook it up with a larger , paintball co2 canister, and how? Quick and easy answer please?


If you go through this thread, you can see people have adapted it to work with a much larger paintball bottle.


----------



## btimmer92

Uptown, I _was_ talking about how small the cartiridge is. talontsiawd agrees with me. But if you get an adapter to use it with a paintball tank, or better yet a regular Co2 tank, that would be an enormous amount of money you would save on co2 refills. I was unaware you could adapt these cartridges, but if you do, then theres no need to throw away the system.


----------



## Uptown193

btimmer92 said:


> Uptown, I _was_ talking about how small the cartiridge is. talontsiawd agrees with me. But if you get an adapter to use it with a paintball tank, or better yet a regular Co2 tank, that would be an enormous amount of money you would save on co2 refills. I was unaware you could adapt these cartridges, but if you do, then theres no need to throw away the system.


Oh ok, well then I guess I am going to use an adapter eventually. No rush right now. Once I get tired of buying these small canisters, which will be soon, I am going to go the paintball tank route. I was unaware also, I just did a search and found this thread. Gotta love the search button.


----------



## tbarabash

Picked up the fluval 88 kit for $100 from my LFS and used it. Worked quite well, was still reading about 800 psi after 3 weeks at 1bps in my 6g Edge, then out of nowhere dropped 600psi overnight (water backed up to regulator, maybe that's why? I smartened up and got a check valve after that haha) and then dropped the rest of the pressure the next night. Returned it for a new one, then hooked it up and started looking for paintball adaptor route.

I put an ad up on kijiji for WTB Paintball tank and someone offered to give me one for free, then bought a remote line from a manufacturer on ebay for $30 so all in all for $30 plus whatever a couple fittings at home depo costs I am able to use the paintball setup with this and save hella big money on refills. I like the fluval system very much, the ceramic diffuser is actually better than a couple of my $20 a piece glass diffusers (fluval one produces smaller bubbles and seems to put them out in a slow, spinning motion they don't shoot up to the top quick). I even bought a second fluval 88 system for my new planted shrimp tank I bought and will be doing the same adaption for that one. Having it on 24/7 doesn't bother me, at 1-2bps the 20oz paintball cylinder will last me about 5 months (if the 88g lasts me 3-4wk) and costs <$4 to fill up


----------



## tbarabash

So I picked up a remote line, the fittings from home depot and some piping tape, hooked everything up, and as soon as I open the valve from the tank the fluval 88 regulator starts leaking from a small opening below/underneath the pressure gauge. I'm not sure why, it wouldn't be a pressure release I don't think because all CO2 should be pressurized to the same ~1100 psi... Anyone else try this strategy and run into a problem like this? I'm quite puzzled as to why this is happening... tried it with 2 different remote lines and still it persists

I have two different fluval 88 systems I was planning on converting and they both have this, it's obviously machined to be there. A little needle point hole right undre the bottom part of the regulator.


----------



## Uptown193

tbarabash said:


> So I picked up a remote line, the fittings from home depot and some piping tape, hooked everything up, and as soon as I open the valve from the tank the fluval 88 regulator starts leaking from a small opening below/underneath the pressure gauge. I'm not sure why, it wouldn't be a pressure release I don't think because all CO2 should be pressurized to the same ~1100 psi... Anyone else try this strategy and run into a problem like this? I'm quite puzzled as to why this is happening... tried it with 2 different remote lines and still it persists
> 
> I have two different fluval 88 systems I was planning on converting and they both have this, it's obviously machined to be there. A little needle point hole right undre the bottom part of the regulator.


Hey did you use Teflon tape to make sure there is a seal in the threads?

What is the list of the parts you bought. I want to do this with my Fluval 88g?


----------



## tbarabash

I did use teflon tape yes for all of the connections. And as for the CO2 coming out from the pressure release below the regulator guage, I think it was becuase I wasn't scrweing in the watts A183 far enough in. Until I screwed it in deep enough to actually cut out a hole in the o-ring (which still seals perfectly with the a183 the way it is shaped) the gas was leaking though the pressure release due to inadequate seal


I realized my problem though; my remote line ended in a 1/2" NPT threaded connection so instead of going straight from remote line to the 1/8" piece to the watts a183 found in the list earlier on this thread, I had to buy a 1/2" pipe reducer which (I now realize) had different thread size than the other connectors I was using to get from the fluval regulator to the remote line. The color of the bags needs to be the same; I overlooked this when setting mine up and used all the same watts connectors but some were from green topped bags and one was from the yellow topped variety.

I'm just waiting to get another remote line that cuts off directly into the 1/8" adaptor so I don't have this problem again and will set up my second paintball system this way. For now, I just splurged and bought myself a two stage paintball regulator from green leaf aquatics for my main tank  Should be here pretty soon. 

I'm at work right now so not sure of the list, but would be no use posting it as I now see what I had done wrong


----------



## sayurasem

bump... review of this setup.... 

is it more economical than jaggedfurry setup in the long run?

and is it more precise bps too?


----------



## Mgiorgi1221

My fluval ran out of co2 so instead of buying expensive fluval cartridges I bought paintball canisters, the thread fits but it will not puncture? Help please?


----------



## ltra

Will this one is an alternative ?

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/239899/product.web

*Single CO2 Controller for Paint Ball Containers*


----------



## Naekuh

u guys be VERY CAREFUL when finding an adapter.

the hole inside the fluval is NOT 100% the same size hole as typical paintball 88g. 

I know it sounds funny, but the threads dont exactly match up. 

This is why i had to go though 2 sets of adapters where only 1 would actually screw in without problems. 

AS others have said... its the threadding on the Fluval 88g which is funky and makes things difficult.


if you factor in the attachment is roughly 20 dollars, and a brand new co2 paintball regulator is 41.... id honestly spend the 21 extra and get a real paintball regulator.



ltra said:


> Will this one is an alternative ?
> 
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/239899/product.web
> 
> Single CO2 Controller for Paint Ball Containers



http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...5582-fs-new-paintball-co2-setup-complete.html










go with option 3.... as its the complete regulator.
But you still need a drop checker and a bubble counter.


----------



## mr2

Mgiorgi1221 said:


> My fluval ran out of co2 so instead of buying expensive fluval cartridges I bought paintball canisters, the thread fits but it will not puncture? Help please?


I have the same issue, I have a bunch of airsource 88g cartridges that screw in but only dent the top of the cartridge, not piercing all the way. On another forum someone said they fixed this by filing the threads, but they were not specific as to where to file exactly. Another post on this thread said to use a die o the threads but I don't really know what that means.... Does anyone know how to use generic 88g cartridges? At 7 buds a cartridge if they could be made to work it would be great for small tanks like my fluvial spec.


----------



## mr2

Does anyone know? I will try it on Monday and hopefully post a pic up if it works. I am thinking I should remove the threads closest to the outlet?


----------



## mr2

took off the top two threads and it worked, but then the regulator started leaking from the guage and it hisses on and off, I give up with this thing it is a waste of money, I guess I will go with diy for the little 2.5g spec tank.


----------



## Jimmyblues

*Fluval CO2 88 Gram System*

I purchased one of these from Drs. Fosters & Smith about a month ago for $36 on sale. They usually sell it for about $47, which is well below the $69.95 price of many online pet stores. And I have heard of some people paying as much as $100 for the Fluval C02 88 System.

I use the CO2 88 system on a 20 gallon long tank which has dwarf hairgrass, an Amazon Sword plant and a Dwarf Sword plant. I have been running the CO2 88 at 1 bubble every 3 seconds for about 12 hours a day, shutting it off at night.

Plant growth at this rate is hardly spectacular, however, very consistent, with the DH slowly carpeting and the Amazon and Dwarf Swords growing new leaves with a vibrant green color.

The CO2 88 is still more than half full after a month's use, so at this rate I would imagine it should last about two months. The CO 88 refills are very expensive when purchasing one at a time - about $21, so you are better off buying the three pack which runs about $12 per canister.

Thus far, the Fluval CO2 88 has performed flawlessly. The regulator is solidly built and the control knob has a sturdy feel to it. When compared to the Aqua Design Amano CO2 system at $249, which the Fluval, Pierce and GLA systems are inexpensive knockoffs of, the Fluval is a bargain - especially at the $36 price this author purchased mine for.

However, based on the claims of some other fishkeepers, there may be some quality control issues with the early Fluval units that have been sorted out by now. 

As for Fluval's claim that these regulators should last for two years, there are many far more expensive regulators that have failed prior to two years.

Someone else on this forum had mentioned considering the purchase of a Milwaukee regulator. I recently purchased a 957 which I am using with a 5lb CO2 canister; both bought from Aquariumplants.com. This is a nice CO2 rig for about $200 - shipping is free for items over $175 at Aquariumplants.com.

Several owners of the MK 957 have spoken about the needle valve getting 
clogged, however being able to repair it by drilling out the hole with a 1/16TH drill bit. Others have stated that the low pressure gauge failed within a short time of purchasing the 957. According to Milwaukee, the low pressure gauge is redundant since the bubble counter which is also included on the 957 is more accurate in calibrating this regulator.

Why Milwaukee does not remove the low pressure dial and charge less for the 957 makes little sense, since they could probably sell a lot more of them. Aquariumplants.com has stated that the 957 also has problems with the solenoid failing, and that when it does, it fails with the valve closed, making the entire unit useless. When I spoke to one of the people at Aquariumplants.com, he suggested purchasing their own regulator because it has a three year warranty, as opposed to the 957's 6 month warranty.

However, their regulator costs about $230, nearly three times the price of the 957.

On the positive side, many 957 owners have stated that the unit remains good value for the money, in spite of the above issues. 



Jimmyblues


----------



## Naekuh

Jimmyblues said:


> I use the CO2 88 system on a 20 gallon long tank which has dwarf hairgrass, an Amazon Sword plant and a Dwarf Sword plant. I have been running the CO2 88 at 1 bubble every 3 seconds for about 12 hours a day, shutting it off at night.
> 
> Jimmyblues


how do u know its more then half full?

Co2 should always report the same pressure until u vaporized the last bit of liquid co2. 

After that... the pressure gauge drops... if u see your gauge drop, it means ur not more then half full, it means ur almost empty.

i and others have tried backwards to mod this..

the mod i thought would work actually failed... and destoryed the inner oring on my unit. 

This made it leak... and now it sits in the box of useless toys along with my red sea reactor 500. 

Also how little are u injecting co2? 
That 88g co2 wouldnt last 1 month in my 10 gallon with HC carpet.


----------



## Bettatail

Jimmyblues said:


> I purchased one of these from Drs. Fosters & Smith about a month ago for $36 on sale. They usually sell it for about $47, which is well below the $69.95 price of many online pet stores. And I have heard of some people paying as much as $100 for the Fluval C02 88 System.
> 
> I use the CO2 88 system on a 20 gallon long tank which has dwarf hairgrass, an Amazon Sword plant and a Dwarf Sword plant. I have been running the CO2 88 at 1 bubble every 3 seconds for about 12 hours a day, shutting it off at night.
> 
> Plant growth at this rate is hardly spectacular, however, very consistent, with the DH slowly carpeting and the Amazon and Dwarf Swords growing new leaves with a vibrant green color.
> 
> The CO2 88 is still more than half full after a month's use, so at this rate I would imagine it should last about two months. The CO 88 refills are very expensive when purchasing one at a time - about $21, so you are better off buying the three pack which runs about $12 per canister.
> 
> Thus far, the Fluval CO2 88 has performed flawlessly. The regulator is solidly built and the control knob has a sturdy feel to it. When compared to the Aqua Design Amano CO2 system at $249, which the Fluval, Pierce and GLA systems are inexpensive knockoffs of, the Fluval is a bargain - especially at the $36 price this author purchased mine for.
> 
> However, based on the claims of some other fishkeepers, there may be some quality control issues with the early Fluval units that have been sorted out by now.
> 
> As for Fluval's claim that these regulators should last for two years, there are many far more expensive regulators that have failed prior to two years.
> 
> Someone else on this forum had mentioned considering the purchase of a Milwaukee regulator. I recently purchased a 957 which I am using with a 5lb CO2 canister; both bought from Aquariumplants.com. This is a nice CO2 rig for about $200 - shipping is free for items over $175 at Aquariumplants.com.
> 
> Several owners of the MK 957 have spoken about the needle valve getting
> clogged, however being able to repair it by drilling out the hole with a 1/16TH drill bit.  Others have stated that the low pressure gauge failed within a short time of purchasing the 957. According to Milwaukee, the low pressure gauge is redundant since the bubble counter which is also included on the 957 is more accurate in calibrating this regulator.
> 
> Why Milwaukee does not remove the low pressure dial and charge less for the 957 makes little sense, since they could probably sell a lot more of them. Aquariumplants.com has stated that the 957 also has problems with the solenoid failing, and that when it does, it fails with the valve closed, making the entire unit useless. When I spoke to one of the people at Aquariumplants.com, he suggested purchasing their own regulator because it has a three year warranty, as opposed to the 957's 6 month warranty.
> 
> However, their regulator costs about $230, nearly three times the price of the 957.
> 
> On the positive side, many 957 owners have stated that the unit remains good value for the money, in spite of the above issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Jimmyblues


Quoted.


----------



## Naekuh

once again... the fluval system is like a video game console.

they dont make money off the original eq, they make money off the super insanely expensive refills you need to buy.

and no u cant use one for a BB gun either, the threading is not compatible.


----------



## OVT

Jimmyblues said:


> The CO2 88 is still more than half full after a month's use, so at this rate I would imagine it should last about two months.
> Jimmyblues


Then my question is: how come I only get ~7 days out of one Fluval 88 cartridge set at the lowest level running 24/7 on a 12g tank? :angryfire I did a check leak on the regulator and hoses and they are not leaking.


----------



## Jimmyblues

OVT said:


> Then my question is: how come I only get ~7 days out of one Fluval 88 cartridge set at the lowest level running 24/7 on a 12g tank? :angryfire I did a check leak on the regulator and hoses and they are not leaking.


 
It depends on how many bps you are running. 1 bubble every "3" seconds
may net you two months before you have to change the cartridge.

5 bps and you will probably have to replace the cartridge in a week or two.


----------



## Jimmyblues

Jimmyblues said:


> It depends on how many bps you are running. 1 bubble every "3" seconds
> may net you two months before you have to change the cartridge.
> 
> 5 bps and you will probably have to replace the cartridge in a week or two.


 
And turning the CO2 off at night makes a big difference since you effectively double the life of the cartridge, which is why many fishkeepers turn their pressurized CO2 off at night. 

Of course if you can spring for a 5 or 10 lb canister and a better regulator you can get a year or more out of a tank of CO2. It's more expensive initially, but a lot cheaper in the long run than buying the 88g canisters every few months at 12 bucks a pop.


----------



## OVT

OVT said:


> ...set at the lowest level...


In my case, 'lowest level' is the very next after 'no co2', which roughly translates into 6 bpM. 



Jimmyblues said:


> And turning the CO2 off at night makes a big difference since you effectively double the life of the cartridge


Agree, but you have used Fluval 88 co2, you probably understand why mine is 24/7.



Jimmyblues said:


> Of course if you can spring for a 5 or 10 lb canister and a better regulator you can get a year or more out of a tank of CO2. It's more expensive initially, but a lot cheaper in the long run than buying the 88g canisters every few months at 12 bucks a pop.


100% agree. I have 5 10#s in use atm, but one looks sort of ridiculous on the breakfast counter in the middle of a room. My wife does not like how it fits into the overall decor 



OVT said:


> I only get ~7 days out of one Fluval 88 cartridge


--^


----------



## galabar

Paintball CO2 (with regulator) is a nice compromise from the aesthetic point of view. If you balance things just right, you can have a very nice looking piece of equipment sitting next to your small tank.


----------



## Mark Oliver

Silly question. If the bubble counter and co2 tank is on the floor bellow the tank is there a chance that when off overnight the water can back up and drain the tank?


----------



## galabar

Mark Oliver said:


> Silly question. If the bubble counter and co2 tank is on the floor bellow the tank is there a chance that when off overnight the water can back up and drain the tank?


Yes. You need to install a check valve, similar to what you would use on an air pump. You should also make sure that you keep the PSI below 70 in the system so that the CO2 line does not fail and connections do not fly apart.


----------



## Mark Oliver

Great thanks.


----------



## Naekuh

i want to take a empty 88g bottle... cut the thread part, and see if my friend can weld me a 1/4 ntp screw on the other side so i can screw it onto my paintball ASA valve. 



I wish fluval would sell us an adapter to use on a paintball tank.
I probably wouldnt even mind paying up to the price of the regulator itself for that stupid adapter, because smaller paintball tanks looks nicer on a table, especially high bling ones used more for display reasons then outside paintball fights. 

We just need to stop buying this product and let fluval know we got smarter and we know what they are doing.
Maybe this way they will give us a adapter.

@ Jim.
Do you know how small of a tank 1bps would be used on?
A VERY SMALL TANK.

To keep my HC mat from spreading like weed, i need about 1.5-2bps on a 10gal. 
That translates to 2 weeks on 1 bottle... not efficient at all...

Once again.. anyone looking to buy the setup, DONT. 
Not unless u have a lot of disposable money, or u have a money tree in the back yard.


----------



## picotank

Naekuh said:


> i want to take a empty 88g bottle... cut the thread part, and see if my friend can weld me a 1/4 ntp screw on the other side so i can screw it onto my paintball ASA valve.
> 
> 
> 
> I wish fluval would sell us an adapter to use on a paintball tank.
> I probably wouldnt even mind paying up to the price of the regulator itself for that stupid adapter, because smaller paintball tanks looks nicer on a table, especially high bling ones used more for display reasons then outside paintball fights.
> 
> We just need to stop buying this product and let fluval know we got smarter and we know what they are doing.
> Maybe this way they will give us a adapter.
> 
> @ Jim.
> Do you know how small of a tank 1bps would be used on?
> A VERY SMALL TANK.
> 
> To keep my HC mat from spreading like weed, i need about 1.5-2bps on a 10gal.
> That translates to 2 weeks on 1 bottle... not efficient at all...
> 
> Once again.. anyone looking to buy the setup, DONT.
> Not unless u have a lot of disposable money, or u have a money tree in the back yard.


Not sure if this has been brought up but why can't you tap into a used up 88 gram bottle (on the side or bottom where it may be thicker) and install a fitting to contect to your paintball tank? Not sure how thick the 88 gr bottle is but I bet it's thick enough to tap and thread... Just a thought in my head.


----------



## galabar

picotank said:


> Not sure if this has been brought up but why can't you tap into a used up 88 gram bottle (on the side or bottom where it may be thicker) and install a fitting to contect to your paintball tank? Not sure how thick the 88 gr bottle is but I bet it's thick enough to tap and thread... Just a thought in my head.


Just a note -- those disposable cartridges are not made to the same standard as refillable cylinders. From my research on another thread, it looks like the construction is more brittle. Reusing them might not be a good idea.

Just sayin'. I can post links, but I definitely don't want to start another fight. 

p.s. I'm working on a solution that is cheaper, better, and better looking than the Fluval. I'll keep everyone updated.


----------



## DerekFF

Mark Oliver said:


> Silly question. If the bubble counter and co2 tank is on the floor bellow the tank is there a chance that when off overnight the water can back up and drain the tank?


Drain the tank? Where is all that water going to go? Into the CO2 tank? Fill the drop checker? It may siphon and fill the airline (doubtful) but there's no where for the water to go

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## picotank

galabar said:


> Just a note -- those disposable cartridges are not made to the same standard as refillable cylinders. From my research on another thread, it looks like the construction is more brittle. Reusing them might not be a good idea.
> 
> Just sayin'. I can post links, but I definitely don't want to start another fight.
> 
> p.s. I'm working on a solution that is cheaper, better, and better looking than the Fluval. I'll keep everyone updated.


I'm in the air guns biz and we refill crosman 88 gram carts all the time.
There is a adapter made to refill them made by Bryan And Associates so they can be refilled and why not... if they can hold pressure once they can hold it again and again and ........................ 
No big deal.. just sayin.>


----------



## galabar

Here is an interesting article:

http://www.gizmology.net/dot39.htm



> Conclusion
> 
> Refilling non-refillable gas cylinders is dangerous because the metal is stressed to it's maximum, and because the inelasticity of the metal concentrates stress and fatigues the metal.


What is the name of your business? Can you afford the fine? Of course, that is for *propane*, but just sayin. 

Now, on the more serious side, you, as a business, should assess your own risks and the risks of your customers. However, if I were in your position, I would not do this.


----------



## picotank

galabar said:


> Here is an interesting article:
> 
> http://www.gizmology.net/dot39.htm
> 
> What is the name of your business? Can you afford the fine? Of course, that is for *propane*, but just sayin.


www.moutainaircustomairguns.com
I build guns that hold 3000 psi of pressure and use these guns for hunting and target shooting... There is no law that says you can not fill up a used co2 cart. I know a bit about high pressures and what it means to be safe..
Like I said before.. No big deal....I was just thinking out loud... .


----------



## galabar

picotank said:


> www.moutainaircustomairguns.com
> I build guns that hold 3000 psi of pressure and use these guns for hunting and target shooting... There is no law that says you can not fill up a used co2 cart. I know a bit about high pressures and what it means to be safe..
> Like I said before.. No big deal....I was just thinking out loud... .


http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/

Well, again, it is up to you. I wish you and your customers luck with this.

p.s. Just to be clear, these are the cartridges that you refill?

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Crosman_AirSource_pre_filled_disposable_two_88_gram_CO2_tanks/336

p.p.s. Legality and liability may be different here:

http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/208561-suit-alleges-defective-coupling-caused-fatal-propane-fire


----------



## DerekFF

Or for $75 get a complete top to bottom paintball setup that will last you 3-4 months with a $5 refill bill a few times a year.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## OVT

OVT said:


> Then my question is: how come I only get ~7 days out of one Fluval 88 cartridge set at the lowest level running 24/7 on a 12g tank? :angryfire I did a check leak on the regulator and hoses and they are not leaking.


As an update, I sent email to Fluval Customer Service on the subject. Reply came back 4 days later saying that they are shipping me a new regulator free of charge.

I just might put the 88g set up for sale anyways as it's being replaced buy a 10#.


----------



## OverStocked

galabar said:


> http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/
> 
> Well, again, it is up to you. I wish you and your customers luck with this.
> 
> p.s. Just to be clear, these are the cartridges that you refill?
> 
> http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Crosman_AirSource_pre_filled_disposable_two_88_gram_CO2_tanks/336
> 
> p.p.s. Legality and liability may be different here:
> 
> http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/208561-suit-alleges-defective-coupling-caused-fatal-propane-fire


1) Co2 isn't flammable. 2) http://www.navagear.com/2010/01/22/is-refilling-disposable-propane-cylinders-really-illegal/

The case was dismissed, and it doesn't appear that anyone has said what that means. 

Don't take the tag off your mattress either.

If you're willing to pay the legal fees, you can sue someone for anything. That in itself does not make them liable.


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## galabar

OverStocked said:


> 1) Co2 isn't flammable. 2) http://www.navagear.com/2010/01/22/is-refilling-disposable-propane-cylinders-really-illegal/
> 
> The case was dismissed, and it doesn't appear that anyone has said what that means.
> 
> Don't take the tag off your mattress either.
> 
> If you're willing to pay the legal fees, you can sue someone for anything. That in itself does not make them liable.


The tag on your matress is for the seller, not you. I hope you know that. 

As for liability, if a refilled CO2 cartridge explodes in someone's hand, they are coming after you in court, count on it (and they will probably win).

p.s. The case may have been settled (for an undisclosed sum).


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## aGiantLeaf

Been runing it at 4bps for 2 weeks and the 88g tank is almost gone. WTH I'm returning this and getting: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041YLM7G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&m=A34950EJPC3UHN

$80 Solenoid


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## galabar

aGiantLeaf said:


> Been runing it at 4bps for 2 weeks and the 88g tank is almost gone. WTH I'm returning this and getting: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041YLM7G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&m=A34950EJPC3UHN
> 
> $80 Solenoid


That sounds about right at 4 bps. This is really meant for a micro-sized tank at maybe 0.5 bps. This would give 16 weeks with your measurement.


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## hockey9999

aGiantLeaf said:


> Been runing it at 4bps for 2 weeks and the 88g tank is almost gone. WTH I'm returning this and getting: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041YLM7G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&m=A34950EJPC3UHN
> 
> $80 Solenoid


Check other sources for the Aquatek (eBay...) I payed a bit less for mine. Ships directly from Aquatek as well. Got mine about a year ago, couldn't be happier for what it costs.


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## Naekuh

hockey9999 said:


> Check other sources for the Aquatek (eBay...) I payed a bit less for mine. Ships directly from Aquatek as well. Got mine about a year ago, couldn't be happier for what it costs.


u know aquatek is a power vendor on this forum.

i wish they would give us the price on e-bay here.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/aquatek-california/

It would make more sense also seeing how they wouldnt have to pay ebay broker fee's.


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## Mark Oliver

DerekFF said:


> Drain the tank? Where is all that water going to go? Into the CO2 tank? Fill the drop checker? It may siphon and fill the airline (doubtful) but there's no where for the water to go
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


I have noticed that just turning off the CO2 overnight that water fills the tubes either from the tank or from the bubble counter. It gets really close to getting water in valve so I'm gonna get a valve check.

Is the best place to put it between the tank and the bubble counter or the bubble counter and the valve. I assume bubble counter and valve.


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## wastewater

^Hope the picture helps.
View attachment 39862

*_Picture removed due to deleting old attachments in my control panel - pm for picture if desired. _


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## Lludu

wastewater said:


> ^Hope the picture helps.
> View attachment 39862




Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator



Yeah... might want to fix that


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## beedee

i didnt feel like reading through 15 pages, so i'll ask. How well does the fluval diffuser work? Is it a very fine mist, similar to the atomizers, or is it more along the lines of the eBay glass ones?


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## redza

how long does the mini22 kit last at 0.5 Bps?


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## tunatime

i had the 88g one and at 2 bps the tank lasted 1.5 weeks. theses kits are not worth it as the tanks are a dam rip off


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## flc

TLE041 said:


> I've read that it's recommended to use some Vaseline (petroleum jelly) on the treads and seals to give a completely air-tight seal. Maybe the extra lubrication could help make your canister go on easier?


Vaseline can be pretty rough on rubber and plastic components. I'd suggest using silicone vacuum grease or teflon tape instead.


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## Hilde

OVT said:


> Agree, but you have used Fluval 88 co2, you probably understand why mine is 24/7.


Hope you don't mind me reviving this thread. I am thinking strongly of getting a fluval to at least use when I go out of town. 

I had read that leaving it on 24/7 is dangerous to the fish. How are you able to do this?


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## Hilde

hockey9999 said:


> I think at this point I am going to be returning the Fluval kit and just going the DIY paintball route.
> 
> By the time I buy an adapter of some sort, and then a 20-24oz paintball tank once my first cartridge runs out, I will have spent way more then just going with the DIY paintball setup to begin with.


Did you ever do the DIY paintball setup? I figured it would cost about $200. For the most expensive item is the regulator. With the Fluval regulator adapted I figure $108.

Is the fluval a pressure regulator or just a regulator though?


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## AnotherHobby

Hilde said:


> Did you ever do the DIY paintball setup? I figured it would cost about $200. For the most expensive item is the regulator. With the Fluval regulator adapted I figure $108.
> 
> Is the fluval a pressure regulator or just a regulator though?


Aquatek Paintball CO2 Regulator: $88 on Amazon

20 oz Paintball Tank: $20 on Amazon


That's $108 for paintball CO2 with a solenoid that you can turn off. It's not the greatest CO2 system on earth, but it's the right price and a lot of people run them. The weakest link is the needle valve, which can be easily replaced for about $35 if needed. I just ordered one for my office nano.


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## Hilde

AnotherHobby said:


> Aquatek Paintball CO2 Regulator: $88 on Amazon
> 20 oz Paintball Tank: $20 on Amazon
> 
> That's $108 for paintball CO2 with a solenoid that you can turn off. It's not the greatest CO2 system on earth, but it's the right price and a lot of people run them. The weakest link is the needle valve, which can be easily replaced for about $35 if needed. I just ordered one for my office nano.


Interesting!! I saw at 1 site Aquatek Paintball CO2 Regulator was over $100. I shall save that link.

I didn't think that the Aquatek Paintball CO2 Regulator had a solenoid in it. Says it does at amazon. Thanks!!


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## brooksie321

AnotherHobby said:


> Aquatek Paintball CO2 Regulator: $88 on Amazon
> 
> 20 oz Paintball Tank: $20 on Amazon
> 
> 
> That's $108 for paintball CO2 with a solenoid that you can turn off. It's not the greatest CO2 system on earth, but it's the right price and a lot of people run them. The weakest link is the needle valve, which can be easily replaced for about $35 if needed. I just ordered one for my office nano.


+1, mines running fine so far.. adjustment takes a minute to fine tune but it seems a solid system for the money.. also being able to fill tanks at say "dicks sporting goods" is pretty convenient. . For me anyways..


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