# 10 gallon aquascape



## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

PS That's Eco Complete, a little sand and Malaysian Driftwood.

Filled with filtered water from my Brita and then just Prime. That's all I have done so far.

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## yellabelly (Mar 24, 2014)

*howdy.*

Getting responses on here is difficult unless you are a truly experienced aquarist. I started the same as you, almost exactly. Just an fyi, the sand will get dark and quite ugly very soon. Also, when planting it will quickly mix with the other substrate(in my experience) Most pictures you see with "bright white sand" was done immediately before the photo shoot. Not trying to shoot you down, just a heads up.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

Depends on the type of cycle that you want to do. Fishless cycles don't need fish while you can add fish during the nitrifying cycle and keep doing water changes. Another note is that you should not worry about lighting until getting plants or fish. A general photoperiod would be around 6-8 hours.


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## yellabelly (Mar 24, 2014)

*cycling*

Apparently plants help cycle an aquarium and danios are cycling fish (says PS). There are other cycling fish. If the tank had already been going(with blue gravel), depending how long it was dry it could be good to go. Im unsure about the lighting, I dont see why it wouldn't grow low to med plants without co2. If recently purchased, id take it back and order a finnex or satellite from amazon. If you got it from Petsmart, im sure it cost more than these online that have been proven to grow plants. I have a 20" finnex planted plus and a 12" finnex fugeray on a 10gal. Im also very new to this and am still going through trial and error. However, the lights are not the problem. Its finding a balance with lighting(photo periods), ferts, co2, temp, etc. I love the scaping, just worried it wont last(like mine). 
What plant types were you thinking about? 
What fauna?
Hope I wasnt a bummer, I just wish a had alittle more help at the beginning.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Thanks for the responses guys.

I've been running a 20 gallon planted tank for I think half a year now? I don't have experience with CO2. I tried DIY once but I must have had a leak in the line somewhere because I could smell it and also nothing came through the diffuser, not 1 bubble, even though I had plenty of bubbles going through my bubble counter.

Anyways. My first planted, my current 20, I put my fish in with some plants about 3 days in, I must have done that too soon because my Angel almost died, 3 rasboras actually did die. Looking back and knowing what I do now about my taps ammonia levels, I think that was the issue because I added some nitrifying bacteria and all the fish pulled through.

With this, I plan on giving diy co2 another shot on this 10.

Reason being I want DBT and maybe Xmas tree moss on tree.

I figured with the sand pathway I would have to be much much more careful than usual to keep path clean.

I guess I just wondered if I should run plants alone, then fish or vice versa, or if the order is no big deal.

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Apparently I wasn't concise, that's what I will tell myself as to why no one had any advice...

Will this LED with 300 lumens for a 10 gallon grow plants with CO2 or do I need more "power"?

I know the concept of fluorescents and watts but LED seems different.

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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jeffturneraz said:


> I added some nitrifying bacteria and all the fish pulled through.
> 
> With this, I plan on giving diy co2 another shot on this 10.
> 
> I guess I just wondered if I should run plants alone, then fish.


Plants alone 1st best. Hygrophila plants I have found help speed up the cycling. Also nitrifying bacteria like Micro-Lift. After a week should be able to start adding fish. I usually don't have a problem if add 3 fish weekly.

Fish pulled through though so isn't cycling finished

Wine DIY CO2

Believe you have medium light. Plant Finder


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Hilde said:


> Plants alone 1st best. Hygrophila plants I have found help speed up the cycling. Also nitrifying bacteria like Micro-Lift. After a week should be able to start adding fish. I usually don't have a problem if add 3 fish weekly.
> 
> Fish pulled through though so isn't cycling finished
> 
> Wine DIY CO2


Thank you : )

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## yellabelly (Mar 24, 2014)

*LEDs*

Both lights I mentioned were LED. Lumens isnt whats important necessarily. Its the PAR value at the substrate/plant base. I mentioned these lights because they have listed PAR values for all sizes, yours might as well. "Will it grow plants?" Not sure, but buying something that is sold FOR planted tanks no matter what type of fixture should give better results. Ive spent hours searching since first jumping in head first and its easy to see what "professionals" use so how would they be wrong? I've got hundreds of dollars in useless equipment that I purchased for a 10gal to see "if it will work".


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Any plants which come from an established tank already have the nitrifying bacteria on them. But if you sucessfully use the nitrifying bacteria before and therefore know it works...
A 10g tank will only house a very few fish without having ammonia/nitrate problems.
When I first started, there was no internet and very little info.
But I stopped in my teen years and started back in 2010. I found this, which helped to keep me from killing fish by putting too many or putting the wrong kind in/w each other.
My computer has a glitch and is having trouble getting it but it's called the Aqadvisor.
Put that name in search. It tells you which fish work in what sized tank.
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
You can find plants by how much light you have on this.
http://www.aqua-fish.net/index.php?cur_lang=2&count=no&secured=&section=6
Actually that light is very low level and poor for plants. Anubias and Java fern may grow
with it.
If that Brita is a house water filter you might want to check to see if it adds salt to the water. That would harm a freshwater aquarium.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Raymond S. said:


> Any plants which come from an established tank already have the nitrifying bacteria on them. But if you sucessfully use the nitrifying bacteria before and therefore know it works...
> A 10g tank will only house a very few fish without having ammonia/nitrate problems.
> When I first started, there was no internet and very little info.
> But I stopped in my teen years and started back in 2010. I found this, which helped to keep me from killing fish by putting too many or putting the wrong kind in/w each other.
> ...


Awesome links, thank you very much!

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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

cycling finished?


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Hilde said:


> cycling finished?


Well, no today is just day 2...but I've made some progress.

I got some glosso and java fern.



















I also got a power head because I was getting no movement from the HOB filter.

I successfully got some day co2 going last night and am feeding it into filter...I have a fluval diffuser and can barely get 1 to 2 tiny bubbles to come out so I pulled it off and did this...










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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Oh and one last thing I forgot to mention, I took the LED back to PS went to wally world and got a 100 watt cfl.










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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

I just tested my water. This is day 2.

Everything looks great except ammonia is somewhere between 0.5 & 1.0 so it's pretty high.

With plants in there, should I add some nitrifying bacteria to start bringing it down asap for sake of plants?...or since this is only day 2 should I leave it alone? Can plants handle it?

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Man, tough crowd.


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## newsushi (Mar 28, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> I just tested my water. This is day 2.
> 
> Everything looks great except ammonia is somewhere between 0.5 & 1.0 so it's pretty high.
> 
> ...


For a fishless cycle your ammonia isn't too high. Search for more information about fishless cycles using bottled ammonia. Looks like many people recommend maintaining between 3-5ppm ammonia to jump start the cycle. Remember - ammonia fuels your plants, so they can tolerate much more ammonia than fish/inverts. If you're not doing a fishless cycle, you definitely want to do something to bring those levels down.

We added Seachem's stability at regular intervals when starting the tank to help move the cycle along.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

newsushi said:


> For a fishless cycle your ammonia isn't too high. Search for more information about fishless cycles using bottled ammonia. Looks like many people recommend maintaining between 3-5ppm ammonia to jump start the cycle. Remember - ammonia fuels your plants, so they can tolerate much more ammonia than fish/inverts. If you're not doing a fishless cycle, you definitely want to do something to bring those levels down.
> 
> We added Seachem's stability at regular intervals when starting the tank to help move the cycle along.


Wow, impressive. I wouldn't have guessed plants could take ammonia that high.

I guess I figured since they all lived in harmony so-to-speak that the fish and plants liked the same things.

Well now I feel better. Thanks for the info. I am doing a fishless cycle but with plants and co2 so I am a little unsure of this process.

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## DGarone (Apr 26, 2013)

It was my impression that you really can't hurt a decent amount of plants during the cycling phase; that is, they deal with/feed off of the things that kill fish. I guess that if you got your ammonia up to absurd levels allowing a ton of matter to decay in your tank, you could probably create an anaerobic/stagnant/poisonous environment for plants.

I'm a fan of those bacteria bottles that get cycling going. In my 2 or 3 experiences with them, they really help. It appears that you're in Phoenix. If so, you can drop by my place in Tempe and I can give you some filter media from one of my filters to jumpstart your cycle if you want. That's typically how I get my new tanks going.

As far as the lighting, I am NOT good with that. I've tried messing with cfls, did not work out well for me. I now stick to LED fixtures with listed PAR values. That reminds me, it probably means something to others, but lumens mean nothing to me in terms of aquariums and growing plants. PAR seems to be the name of the game. Anywho, I stick to LED fixtures that I can find par values for; however, I run pressurized CO2, so everything is dicier, it would seem.

It seems that most people say screw off to DYI co2 and to just suck it up and pony up the money for pressurized systems. I'd have to agree based on my DYI experiences. Inconsistent, messy, and hard to use properly. Mine were always leaking under extreme pressure, giving me inconsistent levels, or gassing my fish out. If you can, I recommend shelling out for a regulator and tank for like the $200 it'll cost. The equipment seems like it'll last a long time and can be resold.

OR just stick to low/medium plants and liquid carbon. I just set up my first liquid co2 planted tank for my girlfriend and it's doing well. I figured it would be super difficult, slow-growing, and ugly, but her tank is lovely. I think I just got lucky. Haha. But, it sure does operate slower than high tech, and, already, I can see the appeal. Easier to deal with. Much wider margin of error because of the lack of moving parts, lower light, and slower changes.

Anyway, I addressed as much as I could based on what I remember you writing and based on my limited knowledge.


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## DGarone (Apr 26, 2013)

PS: Instead of using a big clunky powerhead like that in such a small tank, why not put the HOB filter on the side so the flow goes across the width of the whole tank? Or is it so weak that you don't think that will be enough?

On a side note, I'm starting to realized that good flow is one of the most important things in a planted tank. Everyone blabs about light, co2, and ferts and about how important they are, which is certainly true. But without strong enough flow, good levels of that crap doesn't really matter. Good flow evens out the levels of those things (minus light) within the tank and gets oxygen to plants and bacteria and whatever else.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

DGarone said:


> PS: Instead of using a big clunky powerhead like that in such a small tank, why not put the HOB filter on the side so the flow goes across the width of the whole tank? Or is it so weak that you don't think that will be enough?
> 
> On a side note, I'm starting to realized that good flow is one of the most important things in a planted tank. Everyone blabs about light, co2, and ferts and about how important they are, which is certainly true. But without strong enough flow, good levels of that crap doesn't really matter. Good flow evens out the levels of those things (minus light) within the tank and gets oxygen to plants and bacteria and whatever else.


Thanks for the input, and the invite also. I actually have a fluval 206 that's been running my 20 for 6 months now so I take it I could remove biomedia from it and stick it in the back of the hob of the new tank to speed up process.

I'm actually not in a huge hurry to put fish in here yet. This is sort of my test run with co2 and higher lighting.

I figured while I could try to grow plants I could never currently grow in my 20, which should be interesting... it also gives me a tiny tank to get the hang of it.

I know my fish, what they like, what I like as far as what "team" I want in my tanks. Now if I can handle these higher speeds of hi tech then I can get a new tank and combine the 2.

That's the plan for now at least.

As far as flow from just hob on side, I don't get enough. If the tank weren't so short I would drop the water line lower so filter made more of a splash. I would like lily pipes and a canister and a co2 tank but for now I'm staying low budget.

I bought a brand new regulator and really nice high powered lighting unit for my 20 but just never got the actual co2 tank. But that's fine for now, this nano experiment with my first time hi tech is fun.

We should get together sometime though, thanks again for the help tips.

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

This is a cheap PS power head, I've never owned one before but I didn't realize until I got it home that it came with an inlet tube to hang out of tank for oxygen intake. 

It has a control valve also. Since I'm doing diy co2, I can open the oxygen valve at night and hopefully that will replace having to do all that air pump business. 

Just a comment/observation

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

My glosso is heading straight north, boo..










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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

Usually if glosso grows like that, it needs more light. I'd give it a little more time though and a lot of trimming to see if it'll ever grow horizontally.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> Usually if glosso grows like that, it needs more light. I'd give it a little more time though and a lot of trimming to see if it'll ever grow horizontally.


True, I planted this just yesterday, I think I just assume it will continue in the direction it is pointed but maybe it will lay down.

I just added 1 more 100 watt cfl tonight so now it has more light.










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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> True, I planted this just yesterday, I think I just assume it will continue in the direction it is pointed but maybe it will lay down.
> 
> I just added 1 more 100 watt cfl tonight so now it has more light.
> 
> ...


Are they really 100 watts? Or are they rated as an equivalence to 100watts?


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> Are they really 100 watts? Or are they rated as an equivalence to 100watts?


It does say 100 watt equivalent with 23 actual watts used.

So that puts me at 46 watts.

Box also says 1600 lumens.

Is that not any good?

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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> It does say 100 watt equivalent with 23 actual watts used.
> 
> So that puts me at 46 watts.
> 
> ...


Nope, if it were to actually really be 100 watts each, you'd literally have an algae farm growing in your tank. 46 watts leaves your tank at 4.6 watts per gallon, which is definitely high light for you tank. You have your lights so high up though which lowers the amount of light that gets into the tank. However, 46 watts is definitely more than enough for glosso.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> Nope, if it were to actually really be 100 watts each, you'd literally have an algae farm growing in your tank. 46 watts leaves your tank at 4.6 watts per gallon, which is definitely high light for you tank. You have your lights so high up though which lowers the amount of light that gets into the tank. However, 46 watts is definitely more than enough for glosso.


I do have the lights pretty high up, so if I understand correctly I'm in the high light range. OK, well I guess I should just raise them more if I start killing plants.

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## Mathman (Apr 5, 2009)

I would have gone for a finnex fixture as suggested earlier. Here's my 5g with a finnex light:










Using Eco complete and co2.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Mathman said:


> I would have gone for a finnex fixture as suggested earlier. Here's my 5g with a finnex light:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can appreciate that. And the sleek look is nice. I just liked the price, each one of the lamps were on sale for 3.50 each, then $7 for pack of 4 cfl.

Also I like being able to adjust the height. For now while I'm experimenting I'm happy with these.

A month from now I may be singing a different tune but that's okay.

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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

jeffturneraz said:


> I can appreciate that. And the sleek look is nice. I just liked the price, each one of the lamps were on sale for 3.50 each, then $7 for pack of 4 cfl.
> 
> Also I like being able to adjust the height. For now while I'm experimenting I'm happy with these.
> 
> ...



Experimenting is great. But one finnex fixture will make those cfl bulbs look like night time. Plus the electricity of all the bulbs makes it inefficient. To say the least. If you want to play highlight and injected co2 - skip over everything and buy a proper led fixture.

You won't get much of a nice flat carpet unless you use something like m minuta. But then you'll also get competitive vertical growth eventually. You'll run out of table space with lamps and cords before you can get the lush carpet. Unless you get the lights super super close to the water. Which causes more issues.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Down_Shift said:


> Experimenting is great. But one finnex fixture will make those cfl bulbs look like night time. Plus the electricity of all the bulbs makes it inefficient. To say the least. If you want to play highlight and injected co2 - skip over everything and buy a proper led fixture.
> 
> You won't get much of a nice flat carpet unless you use something like m minuta. But then you'll also get competitive vertical growth eventually. You'll run out of table space with lamps and cords before you can get the lush carpet. Unless you get the lights super super close to the water. Which causes more issues.


Okay, exactly which finnex? I started this thread out asking for input on my LED fixture and what stats I should look for when shopping for LED's because it was my first one. 

I get how fluorescents work but not LED's. 

All I got in response was you should take that LED back but I still didn't know what to look for in an LED light so I just went with what I knew. 

And don't get me wrong, I know what Google is but there is a lot of conflicting info and I feel like the collective info and consensus here on what does and doesn't work was a much better place to start.

But again, this section says to journal your tank but also solicit advice.

I found my thread to have over 300 views and nobody really answered the LED question.

I really do appreciate all of the tips and help and everyone who took the time to chime in on this thread. 

This hobby can be frustrating at first when you buy things and then realize it doesn't do anything that you remotely need.

I'm on my 2nd light setup for this tank, it's only 4 days old and it sounds like I need a different one.

Which type of finnex is best for plants? At first glance it looks like there's a few different choices.



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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Day 4:

Now that I added the 2nd light I'm a little worried about algae considering the right side of my tank has no plants. 




























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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

You want to look at PAR data for the led fixtures. If it's from a legitimate company. There should be par data to back up the light. 

If you want a all around good finnex light. Planted+. 


If you want some extreme light and want to have the option of hanging the light or raising it higher without losing the ability to grow anything. Get a ray2. 


I have both hangin above a 18g tank. They do really well even hung up high.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Can someone give me advice on few places to order plants online?

I have about 3 I have been checking and are all out of what I'm looking for.

Not sure if it's okay to talk about companies on posts but is there anyone with experience that is willing to let me PM you and ask if this company I'm looking at is legit or maybe tell me some others I should check out?

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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

A new thread with this question gets started at least once every week.

I would start with creating a WTB thread on TPT and see what offers you get.

v3


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

OVT said:


> A new thread with this question gets started at least once every week.
> 
> I would start with creating a WTB thread on TPT and see what offers you get.
> 
> v3


Wow, well thankfully I didn't start a new thread.

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## umarnasir335 (Mar 2, 2014)

Mathman said:


> I would have gone for a finnex fixture as suggested earlier. Here's my 5g with a finnex light:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're absolutely wrong about this.

Please keep brand loyalty aside; CFLs these days are more than capable of providing medium-higher end of medium light. Look at my journal - I have 2x26w over my 20 long tank and I'm getting massive pearling and reds, pinks, and yellows from various plants and the tank has only been truly set up for 2 weeks. 

To the author of this thread:
Your fixtures are much too far away from your tank. Even if the bulbs are bright, your PAR will be much too low due to how far away the light source is. Maybe try bringing them down about 6 inches or so?


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

umarnasir335 said:


> You're absolutely wrong about this.
> 
> Please keep brand loyalty aside; CFLs these days are more than capable of providing medium-higher end of medium light. Look at my journal - I have 2x26w over my 20 long tank and I'm getting massive pearling and reds, pinks, and yellows from various plants and the tank has only been truly set up for 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


Okay will do, along with the low cost, I like being able to adjust the lights as well. 

Thanks for the help!

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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

umarnasir335 said:


> You're absolutely wrong about this.
> 
> Please keep brand loyalty aside; CFLs these days are more than capable of providing medium-higher end of medium light. Look at my journal - I have 2x26w over my 20 long tank and I'm getting massive pearling and reds, pinks, and yellows from various plants and the tank has only been truly set up for 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


This ^^. In both situations, I have tried both CFLs and finnex leds over my tank. Both work very well. In terms of being inexpensive (or just without the price shock), the cfls are better. In terms of sleekness and being cheaper over time, the finnex leds would be better. 

In my experience, I preferred the leds just because they didn't take up a lot of space over the tank, giving me space to put my hands into the tank to work with it. 

In questions about the strength of leds:

finnex planted+: said to be low-medium light, but contains red leds for better plant growth, especially for red plants. I haven't tried this myself, but many people sure like the fixture.

finnex ray2: the light that I currently have. Very strong light coming from an inexpensive led fixture. If you want a high lighted tank, this light would be your choice.

For plants, look into the for sale section; there are more than a few people who are selling various different types of plants. A few of which could have what you're looking for would be Ebi or H4n. They both have several species of plants to choose from, or like mentioned earlier, you can go to the WTB/RAOK section and post a WTB to ask for a specific plant package. That usually gets you cheaper plants.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> This ^^. In both situations, I have tried both CFLs and finnex leds over my tank. Both work very well. In terms of being inexpensive (or just without the price shock), the cfls are better. In terms of sleekness and being cheaper over time, the finnex leds would be better.
> 
> In my experience, I preferred the leds just because they didn't take up a lot of space over the tank, giving me space to put my hands into the tank to work with it.
> 
> ...


I was beginning to wonder about this place honestly.

Turns out if you just hang in there, some kind person will get around to answering questions.

Thank you for that. Such a simple thing for you to type but that means a lot to me and I really appreciate the advice.

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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> I was beginning to wonder about this place honestly.
> 
> Turns out if you just hang in there, some kind person will get around to answering questions.
> 
> ...


No problem  :thumbsup:. I barely get my journal checked out either, but I always like to check up on others since there's always some inspiration I can get from theirs. And it's worth it honestly. Since being a kid, I didn't really learn anything, but since my dive into this hobby a year ago, I learned everything I ever needed to know within that time period. I'm still learning from it too. You'll be surprised at the stuff you'll find on this forum..


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> No problem  :thumbsup:. I barely get my journal checked out either, but I always like to check up on others since there's always some inspiration I can get from theirs. And it's worth it honestly. Since being a kid, I didn't really learn anything, but since my dive into this hobby a year ago, I learned everything I ever needed to know within that time period. I'm still learning from it too. You'll be surprised at the stuff you'll find on this forum..


Yes, learning is exactly what I anticipated when I joined here.

I may be new to planted tanks but I am not new to forums.

I get it...every forum has its own personality.

One of the other forums I recently joined over a year ago as another new hobby for me at the time was cigars.

I think I officially got old at 38 because I became interested out of nowhere in boutique cigars and well aged whiskey...scotch and bourbons.

That message board you would think may have sort of A-hole attitudes, but it turned out one of the most helpful, friendly groups I've met.

Constantly sending out what they call "bombs" which is basically a gift of anywhere from 5 to 15 cigars for free, especially to the newbies, newbies get bombed the hardest. Keeping in mind these cigars are an average of 10 bucks each. So these guys easily will do what they call "blow your mailbox" up with minimum of $50 of cigars for fun and friendship.

Similar to the RAOK you guys do. So I guess I figured fish people would be more chill than even those guys. 

Same questions get asked on repeat once a week by newbies over there also, but always someone to help.

I would like to think I have just been posting in a section nobody looks at here.

Once I gain the knowledge I will be the first to respond to questions in the future here in this section.

I'm analytical about everything and I like to think while forums can become a place of stature and cliques, at its heart it is still a great learning and information sharing platform. 

Thanks to all who have responded for helping me along the way with my first hitech run at this. I hope I can help others soon. In the meantime I'll post pics of my progress and thanks for letting me hang here.

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## umarnasir335 (Mar 2, 2014)

It's all good man...I understand how you feel about how so many people are passive. Most of the well-known members on this forum are great and will try to help others.

However, there are quite a lot of "passive" members here also:
I had a thread about my betta spawn about 2 months ago and literally NO ONE commented on it despite a couple of hundred people checking it out...I dont know why people would be compelled to not participate in the community at all.

Let us know how the decreased light height goes.


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## CluelessAquarist (Apr 5, 2014)

I know how you feel, but don't take it the wrong way. The really informed members are helping noobs like you and I day in and day out, there are a lot of us here all asking a million different questions and sometimes they can't keep up. That being said, mistuhmarc has been incredibly helpful to me as I've been setting up my first tank, he's a great guy and really patient when it comes to repetitive stubborn noob questions


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

What plants are you looking for in particular? I know a few places that have odd ball stuff/rare.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> What plants are you looking for in particular? I know a few places that have odd ball stuff/rare.


Hey Chris, thanks...yesterday I had BDT in my basket online but waited too long because they were gone when I went to checkout.

I am still not sure if it's okay to post websites here, but I stumbled upon what seemed to be a well established website yesterday ran out of right here in AZ. 

So I took a chance because it seemed fine.

I got dbt, stargrass and parrots feather.

The more I read about p.f. though I'm not sure if I want to use it now. I guess I will decide when it gets here.

One thing that is new to me though, the dbt mat comes on coconut fiber I think it said?

It says to just lay it in tank w the fiber but idk how I feel about that.

I would prefer to have the hc carpet the substrate only but then again maybe I'm picturing something that's bulky, maybe they are microscopic fibers, I guess I will see when it gets here.

You know anything about dbt being on coconut fiber? If I see it and decide to separate it I hope it's possible, ha.

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

I see HC on coconut fiber all the time. It's more of a pain compared to potted mineral fiber but it still works. Just more annoying to split from the mat IMO. 



jeffturneraz said:


> Hey Chris, thanks...yesterday I had BDT in my basket online but waited too long because they were gone when I went to checkout.
> 
> I am still not sure if it's okay to post websites here, but I stumbled upon what seemed to be a well established website yesterday ran out of right here in AZ.
> 
> ...


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

All things aside, when it comes to PAR, I'm not a really experienced with that particular topic. However, what I do know is this particular URL to the finnex systems right here . http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189944 

At 12" above the tank, the PAR rating (for a 18 or 24 inch finnex fixture) would be around 70 ish PAR. If I remember correctly, that's pretty much high light. You can consider that with any other types of fixtures. However, when it comes to things like CFLs, there's still the "old" method of "watts per gallon", 3 watts per gallon meaning high light. The PAR ratings for CFLs work too, (and there's another link for that, but I don't remember which), and I think they're quite useful, mentioning that CFLs hung vertically are supposedly giving off more light than horizontal ones. 

With regards to mats and coconut fiber, I believe I've come across a couple of mats worth of that stuff before. When it comes to those mats, I don't leave them in the tank, I usually just take apart the mat, pull off the plants, and then plant the plantlings. That usually gives me better spread.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> I see HC on coconut fiber all the time. It's more of a pain compared to potted mineral fiber but it still works. Just more annoying to split from the mat IMO.


I had a feeling that would be the case. 

Well it will be an experience at least!

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Absolutely CluelessAquarist,

Today I moved CO2 tube from the HOB inlet because it seemed like the bubbles were escaping from the top and not getting pushed through filter media.

I fed tube instead into power head and wow what a difference.

I got pearling for my first time. I had just done a water change too so plants really perked up.

Exciting revelation for me now that I had my first day with really good CO2 production.

Will be posting pics tommorow or next day or whenever my other plants get here. This tank is starting to look up.

I'm sure algae is waiting around the corner for me but for now all is good!

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

This is what is known as "rookie dbt planting" can you tell?










Plants came in today. My stargrass was pretty much toast because of the heat here and I did 2 day shipping. I was able to save about 8 stems but I had 2 bundles. : (

No biggie. This parrot feather is weird. Not sure if I'm a fan of it but although it is a (sp?) Noxious weed they say it helps cut down on algae.

So anyway, I didn't have any rocks or really anything to tie the dbt to so after wrestling with the coconut fiber and the wiring, I took wire cutters and made 4 "fences."

As you can see in the pic I just pushed them down.

Anyways, tank is kind of ratty right now so although I didn't want to show off the whole tank after kicking up so much crap, I wanted to add this dbt part to my journal.

Who knows if it will work but....

Note to self: when you order dbt have something to anchor it with before it gets here. Ha. smh

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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

:wink: :icon_surp :confused1: :icon_frow :help: :tongue: :icon_smil :icon_excl :flick: :smile: :icon_sad:  :icon_evil :fish1: :redface:  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yup you guessed it im by polar :angel:


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

8 best stargrass stems I could salvage and the parrots feather on far right, which went in my tank and closed up...but the branches are slowly feathering out as time goes on.










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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

You should try and separate that HC. It will definitely do better if you choose to separate it into small clumps for a larger coverage. That way, it will grow faster and give the HC a better chance to root.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> You should try and separate that HC. It will definitely do better if you choose to separate it into small clumps for a larger coverage. That way, it will grow faster and give the HC a better chance to root.


Thanks for the tip, and I realize it is usually done that way. 

Thing is this mat is just a tad smaller than the area I want it to cover.

It only needs to expand an inch on either of the 4 sides.

I thought about cutting it but doesn't really have far to go.

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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> Thanks for the tip, and I realize it is usually done that way.
> 
> Thing is this mat is just a tad smaller than the area I want it to cover.
> 
> ...


If you're saying that the mat is just a tad smaller than the area it needs to cover, then that's great, faster coverage for it if you separate it :icon_wink.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> If you're saying that the mat is just a tad smaller than the area it needs to cover, then that's great, faster coverage for it if you separate it :icon_wink.


Yeah I would still try to separate it. Rooting would be better IMO.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> If you're saying that the mat is just a tad smaller than the area it needs to cover, then that's great, faster coverage for it if you separate it :icon_wink.


Are you saying I should separate it anyway? Because it's almost done before it's even started it's so large but if I should I'm all ears...

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

I'm all for taking you guys advice. I just want to make logical sense of it before I start moving it around again.

If dbt spreads out from the edges, now let's say I cut the mat in half. The new "edge" I just created, the line where I cut it...why is it now going to grow faster? Because I still have 4 edges.

If the mat I had was half the size of the area, I completely understand separating and placing small patches throughout.

I think you can see all but 1 of the 4 sides in the pic I posted but that side is same, it's an inch max it needs to grow.

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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> I'm all for taking you guys advice. I just want to make logical sense of it before I start moving it around again.
> 
> If dbt spreads out from the edges, now let's say I cut the mat in half. The new "edge" I just created, the line where I cut it...why is it now going to grow faster? Because I still have 4 edges.
> 
> ...


It's your decision as an aquarist to decide whether you want to separate the clumps yourself . While it does look great already as is, I myself would've separated it just to get it to look even. Because what it would more than likely do is try to grow more on itself and grow up rather than grow and carpet around the areas that it would need. In addition, separating it would allow it to root quicker and help spread an even more even distribution in the area that you're trying to cover.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> It's your decision as an aquarist to decide whether you want to separate the clumps yourself . While it does look great already as is, I myself would've separated it just to get it to look even. Because what it would more than likely do is try to grow more on itself and grow up rather than grow and carpet around the areas that it would need. In addition, separating it would allow it to root quicker and help spread an even more even distribution in the area that you're trying to cover.


Okay, I think I see what you mean. Hmm.

I may attempt this tommorow, thanks for the advice Marc!

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## Pisces 56 (Jun 3, 2014)

Am enjoying thread even if I don't get the abbreviations for the plants. I learn something in every thread I read, even the ones using CO2 that I don't use.

A feel'ya about views vs. comments. The one forum I post the most in, I SWEAR I'm the only person that ever posts or comments. Not really, exaggerating.

I don't remember if I read this, but are you planning on adding fish? I plant my tanks but it's more for the benefit of the fish I want than being decorative. I mean, I *try* to make it attractive - I don't just plant willy-nilly - but I'm not of the calibre of quite a few of these planted guys. I don't just do planted tanks. Guess that's what I'm trying to say.

I will be having my own journal. I really like them (mostly because of the pictures; I just LOVE the pictures!). I put a lot of Note to Selfs because at the time of writing I'm in the minute. Later I may have no idea what I did and/or why I did it. 

I enjoy watching your tank come into being. Looking forward to comparison pictures when tank is all finished.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Pisces 56 said:


> Am enjoying thread even if I don't get the abbreviations for the plants. I learn something in every thread I read, even the ones using CO2 that I don't use.
> 
> A feel'ya about views vs. comments. The one forum I post the most in, I SWEAR I'm the only person that ever posts or comments. Not really, exaggerating.
> 
> ...


Thanks for reading!

I do plan to add fish at some point, but I have a 20 gallon planted tank, low light and no co2, that has my favorite fish.

I look at this 10 gallon as my experiment tank, so that I can learn high light and co2 and dosing and algae...I don't want algae, but I want to learn how to master everything as it happens.

I have read a lot but actually jumping in and doing it is the best teacher.

That being said, while I get the hang of this, I figure why not hold off on fish as long as possible.

If I kill some plants, oh well...but if I kill fish because I don't know what I'm doing...I feel differently about that.

That was a long explanation, hope it made sense.

Found few strands of hair algae just now on the glosso so I have a feeling I will need some type of algae eater after all.

Unless I can kill it without buying an animal.

Incidentally, I don't feel bad whatsoever about doing a blackout if that's what it takes because of there not being anything but plants.

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Day 10:

The fact that my glosso looks a little stringy and continues to grow straight up vertically, I decided to put a brand new Aquaticlife T5 on it and ditched, for now, the desk lamp idea.

It is a 24" I bought for my 20 tall.

I had not used it yet because I was waiting to get a co2 tank first.

So obviously it is too long on this 20" ten gallon, but I figured it was time.

Do you guys think I should dial the time down for some days? The 2 desk lamps have been on a 7 hr photo period this whole time.

While the watts are pretty much identical in the switch I just made to this T5, it sits closer to the water than the desk lamp CFL's...and I have a feeling, maybe I'm wrong, that this current light has more of a spectrum needed?

So here it is now...anyone feel like the photo period should be cut down from 7 hrs to something less? Thanks...












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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

My glosso as it looks today, reason I felt like it didn't have enough light.










And best shot I could get of my new bulbs was from the reflection.










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## umarnasir335 (Mar 2, 2014)

Until you get co2, cut down your photoperiod to 3-4 hrs Max. I was running 48w power compacts over my own 10 gallon and it was algae central w/out co2

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

umarnasir335 said:


> Until you get co2, cut down your photoperiod to 3-4 hrs Max. I was running 48w power compacts over my own 10 gallon and it was algae central w/out co2
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Tapatalk 2


Oh I have co2 running well.

This light is unused because I bought it for my 20 gallon. Was waiting to run co2 in that.

Now I'm running it diy in this 10 so I feel fine using this light...it's a little too big for this tank but it works.

Asking about adjusting light because I've been running 2 CFL's, now I have a better light and it sits closer to the water than I had the CFL's.

Hope that makes better sense.

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## yellabelly (Mar 24, 2014)

*looking good.*

I apologize if I came off rude by not giving more details on the original LED question. Lights are another one of those preference things that doesnt really matter when it comes to fixtures. As stated earlier, as long as you know your specific plants needs and how to achieve that you're golden.
I did some research on the marineland leds and ive found plenty of healthy tanks using them. Again, I apologize for leading you in another direction. Heck, ive had a single t8, t8 and cfl, 2 cfl, small finnex, and now 2 finnex leds on this one tank. I just found what works for mine after trial and error. 
Ditched the original DHG and picked up some different plants but I like you, was really going for a carpet and rocks only.


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## yellabelly (Mar 24, 2014)

*hard to get responses.*

And I definitely understand not getting much help. I believe my journal is over 1200 views with only 3 people other than myself typing. Im guilty of this aswell. It always seems people seek advice by reading and not asking but those who ask usually go by the wayside. 

Your tank is going nicely and soon you will be the one giving advice/help.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

yellabelly said:


> I apologize if I came off rude by not giving more details on the original LED question. Lights are another one of those preference things that doesnt really matter when it comes to fixtures. As stated earlier, as long as you know your specific plants needs and how to achieve that you're golden.
> I did some research on the marineland leds and ive found plenty of healthy tanks using them.


Not at all, I appreciate the advice.

It really is trial and error and it seems like there's more than one opinion on any given topic.



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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

I think you should hack away at that glosso. It grew like a weed when I still had it, so it'll bounce right back up. 

In your worries about algae, there should be a great thread about a "1-2" punch for knocking out algae effectively if you ever get a terrible outbreak. It's basically hydrogen peroxide first, then excel second to kill algae out. That's the idea but you should look into it to really understand it.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> i think you should hack away at that glosso. It grew like a weed when i still had it, so it'll bounce right back up.
> 
> In your worries about algae, there should be a great thread about a "1-2" punch for knocking out algae effectively if you ever get a terrible outbreak. It's basically hydrogen peroxide first, then excel second to kill algae out. That's the idea but you should look into it to really understand it.


+1.......


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> I think you should hack away at that glosso. It grew like a weed when I still had it, so it'll bounce right back up.
> 
> In your worries about algae, there should be a great thread about a "1-2" punch for knocking out algae effectively if you ever get a terrible outbreak. It's basically hydrogen peroxide first, then excel second to kill algae out. That's the idea but you should look into it to really understand it.


I have read about that, I may need to study up on that soon. 

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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> I have read about that, I may need to study up on that soon.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


The hydrogen peroxide is definitely an easy pick up. It's pretty much the type you use for wounds and can be found at your local pharmacy or general store like wal-mart. Excel can either be bought online or at a fish store.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> The hydrogen peroxide is definitely an easy pick up. It's pretty much the type you use for wounds and can be found at your local pharmacy or general store like wal-mart. Excel can either be bought online or at a fish store.


So far I have maybe 2 or 3 strands of what looked like hair extending from the glosso...

I just got my tweezers and removed it.

I assume the reason it showed up hasn't fixed itself and I will see more and more.

Although I have added a lot more plants, I have also upgraded to better lighting so time will tell.

One thing I have been wondering...

I see some algae can occur with too much ferts, like hair algae.

With my brand new Eco complete, does it need root tabs right away or does the labeling hold true...should I add my diy root tabs now or does Eco complete have enough to last a month or so.

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## gt turbo (Sep 13, 2012)

jeffturneraz said:


> Yes, learning is exactly what I anticipated when I joined here.
> 
> I may be new to planted tanks but I am not new to forums.
> 
> ...



It's an interesting community here at TPT. Don't take it the wrong way that persons didn't respond right away to your questions. What I find is that persons tend not to respond because they prefer to let the more experienced hobbyist give advice before they chime in.

Do some more lurking in the forums and check other journals for answers to your queries.

You said you needed a better grasp of PAR, and lighting, etc, so take a slow comprehensive read of these articles - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184634

Good luck with you tank.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> So far I have maybe 2 or 3 strands of what looked like hair extending from the glosso...
> 
> I just got my tweezers and removed it.
> 
> ...


I would add the root tabs. What are your water parameters? Nitrates? Phosphates? etc.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Also, with the AquaticLife T5HO fixture (2bulbs) you should be around 60 at 20inches from substrate roughly. How many inches is it from the bottom of the fixture to the substrate?


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> So far I have maybe 2 or 3 strands of what looked like hair extending from the glosso...
> 
> I just got my tweezers and removed it.
> 
> ...


I learned that Eco Complete does not actually promise you much with what they advertise as opposed to substrates like aquasoil. It turns out it only gives you trace amounts of the ferts you need so that's not much use for your plants. However, what it does do is work as a great medium for when you add root tabs or other fertilizers, allowing for the plants to pick these fertilizers up. 

So to answer that question, you should add diy root tabs anyways for faster growth.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

gt turbo said:


> You said you needed a better grasp of PAR, and lighting, etc, so take a slow comprehensive read of these articles - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184634
> 
> Good luck with you tank.


Thank you and thanks for the link!

I will check it out soon.

I had purchased an LED and was told to take it back, was kind of unsure of why but needed to get it done asap. Not really being confident about LED I just bought CFL's and 2 lamps, something I felt comfortable with.

I now have put my T5 on it, so the LED train kind of came and went for now.

At a later point when I am able or want to try LED again, it's good to have these links and suggestions.

So thanks again for the links, I really appreciate it!

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> I would add the root tabs. What are your water parameters? Nitrates? Phosphates? etc.


Okay, thanks Chris. I will add some root tabs today.

I'm not sure about phosphate, just an API kit but everything is at zero, nitrites, nitrates but my ammonia has spiked but I have read this is normal when you start a new tank.

My pH is surprisingly, to me anyway, at like 6.5.

My low tech 20 is always high on pH, closer to 8.

I assume maybe it's the co2 that helps my pH stay low in this 10?

As far as height, from bottom of light to sub is right at 12".

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

My light didn't come on this morning.

It is brand new out of the box. Yesterday was the first time it has ever been turned on more than 30 mins.

I mentioned it was purchased for my 20 gallon. I have been putting it on the 20 for water changes just so I can see better when I clean the tank.

I would say in its life span it has been on a total of 1 hr.

So yesterday was first time it was on for 7 hrs.

I was in room when my timer comes on. The light flashed and went off.

To check my timer, I unplugged light and plugged it directly into an outlet.

Still nothing.

I picked the light up, lightly shook it, turned it upside down and tried on switch again and boom, it came on.

I put it back on tank and it's running.

I can only assume something is loose but I am no electrician.

Leaving town on Friday. A little concerned about this.

PS I added my diy root tabs this morning and did some trimming.

I hope my stargrass can survive having the dead ends chopped.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

My parrots feather growing out of the water. I just got it 2 days ago and it was well below the water line.

I can see why they say it helps cut down on algae, wow.










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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

If your distance from the light to substrate is really just 12inches, then with that fixture at two bulbs, you're somewhere around 80. I would for sure consider that high light. You want to be sure and stay on top of Co2 and fertilization.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Okay, thanks Chris. I will add some root tabs today.
> 
> I'm not sure about phosphate, just an API kit but everything is at zero, nitrites, nitrates but my ammonia has spiked but I have read this is normal when you start a new tank.


What is your ppm for ammonia since it's spiked up?


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Wow okay.

The specs say:

1 24 watt 6000k daylight
&
1 24 watt 650 NM Roseate T5 HO

So even though that puts it at 48 watts you're telling me that it's almost twice that?

Oh my goodness. Maybe I should cut my lights to shorter than 7 hrs?

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Wow okay.
> 
> The specs say:
> 
> ...


No, I'm saying you're around 80PAR...nothing to do with your watts on the fixture. Sorry I didn't clarify that earlier.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> What is your ppm for ammonia since it's spiked up?


At one point it was .50 "ish"...hard to measure with color chart exactly but about that.

I have nitrifying bacteria that I have put in there but haven't tested water in past 2 days.

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> No, I'm saying you're around 80PAR...nothing to do with your watts on the fixture. Sorry I didn't clarify that earlier.


Oh...gotcha. So what I have sounds more advanced than what I'm ready for.

I either hang on for the ride and learn the hard way or maybe I should just buy a new light even though I can't really afford to right now.

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Oh...gotcha. So what I have sounds more advanced than what I'm ready for.
> 
> I either hang on for the ride and learn the hard way or maybe I should just buy a new light even though I can't really afford to right now.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


No way, suspend it in the air above the tank. You can do this DIY or you can buy the hanging kit made for this fixture, which looks stinking awesome by the way.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> No way, suspend it in the air above the tank. You can do this DIY or you can buy the hanging kit made for this fixture, which looks stinking awesome by the way.


Hmm, okay...the area above the tank is tricky, as far as hanging from ceiling, because I have thought about that before. Without a long explanation of why that is, I would basically need something more like a frame that sits around the base of the tank.

I have looked before but never found.

In my mind I'm picturing a hollow metal bar that is shaped like a capital C but square.

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Hmm, okay...the area above the tank is tricky, as far as hanging from ceiling, because I have thought about that before. Without a long explanation of why that is, I would basically need something more like a frame that sits around the base of the tank.
> 
> I have looked before but never found.
> 
> ...


http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaticL...ures-AquaticLife-AK01209-FILTACMOFTHK-vi.html

http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaticL...ures-AquaticLife-AK01147-FILTACMOFTHK-vi.html


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaticL...ures-AquaticLife-AK01209-FILTACMOFTHK-vi.html
> 
> http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaticL...ures-AquaticLife-AK01147-FILTACMOFTHK-vi.html


Yes! That first link is what I am thinking. Although I can't tell by looking at the picture how that connects at the base but I'm sure it's easy enough.

Tank is on an IKEA dresser that I really do not want to drill holes in.

At 50 something dollars for the stand, this same aquaticlife light but scaled down version for this 20" ten gallon is just a tiny bit more.

Okay well that gives me some things to think about Chris...thank you very very much!

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Yes! That first link is what I am thinking. Although I can't tell by looking at the picture how that connects at the base but I'm sure it's easy enough.
> 
> Tank is on an IKEA dresser that I really do not want to drill holes in.
> 
> ...


Hole will be drilled for that hang over style one. No biggie though pretty easy. If you're talking about the same light just smaller in length, you'll still be around the same PAR rating in high light. Didn't know if that's what you were talking about but just thought I'd throw that out there.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

Did the light come with a warranty? You should get it returned for a new fixture if something is wrong with the tank.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> Hole will be drilled for that hang over style one. No biggie though pretty easy. If you're talking about the same light just smaller in length, you'll still be around the same PAR rating in high light. Didn't know if that's what you were talking about but just thought I'd throw that out there.


I was, I figured maybe it would be scaled down in a smaller version of same one but maybe I'm not grasping PAR.

I will have to sit down tonight and really get myself up to speed on that topic.

I am not stuck on this brand at all btw I will figure something out.

I do have co2, although diy, pretty solid.

I don't have any checkers to measure but I just mean it streams out constant. No spurts or bubbles, just blasting out of power head in a full on constant stream.

All my plants are pearling.

I don't have any dry ferts either, just seachem flourish, nitrogen and potassium about every other day.

I also have excel but the co2 is coming out so well I don't know if I should use that or not.

I realize I should get dry certs asap but for now this is all I have, and I really just dose what the bottle says.

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> Did the light come with a warranty? You should get it returned for a new fixture if something is wrong with the tank.


Exactly my thought this morning...will have to look into that.

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## philemon716 (Aug 14, 2011)

If hair algae is the main issue with too much lighting, it can be taken care of immediately with amano shrimp. You'll still have to get your lighting adjusted, but at least you know there is a solution with the hair. 

I left my tank untouched for 2 months (save for water top offs) and hair algae took off. Two amanos cleaned up the 4g tank in 48 hours...amazing what those guys can do.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

philemon716 said:


> If hair algae is the main issue with too much lighting, it can be taken care of immediately with amano shrimp. You'll still have to get your lighting adjusted, but at least you know there is a solution with the hair.
> 
> I left my tank untouched for 2 months (save for water top offs) and hair algae took off. Two amanos cleaned up the 4g tank in 48 hours...amazing what those guys can do.


Oh nice, good to know. I just so happen to like shrimp too, ha.

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

It definitely has a warranty. AquaticLife warranties are one of the best out there.


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## gt turbo (Sep 13, 2012)

jeffturneraz said:


> Thank you and thanks for the link!
> 
> I will check it out soon.
> 
> ...


The link I sent you is about lighting in general. It explains par and gives a pretty concise write-up on many of the more popular lighting solutions out there. It's a good read and wealth of information. Do yourself a favour and take your time and read it.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> It definitely has a warranty. AquaticLife warranties are one of the best out there.


Sweet, waiting to see if it kicks on today. If not maybe they will give me something closer to 60 par, ha. Prob not but hey...

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

gt turbo said:


> The link I sent you is about lighting in general. It explains par and gives a pretty concise write-up on many of the more popular lighting solutions out there. It's a good read and wealth of information. Do yourself a favour and take your time and read it.


I see that now, I thought par was specific to LED's until yesterday after you sent that. I will for sure check it out. Thanks for sending : )

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Sweet, waiting to see if it kicks on today. If not maybe they will give me something closer to 60 par, ha. Prob not but hey...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Yeah let us k now. I run 2 of the AquaticLife T5HO fixtures on my 125g. To say it's bright is an understatement.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Holy cow,

Just tested water.

Now I did read that in new tank, first the ammonia spikes, which in turn eventually makes I think the the nitrites spike, then finally the nitrates will spike...may have the last 2 backwards..but when all 3 of these have spiked and then come down the tank cycle was complete and you can begin to move forward.

So this tank is a couple weeks old.

One last thing to take into account, I just dosed nitrogen and potassium about 5 mins before I took water samples.

Okay so here is what I have, thank goodness I have no fish in here:

Ammonia: 1.0 ppm

Nitrite: 5.0 ppm

Nitrates: between 10 & 20 ppm on color chart hard to tell.

What the heck?

(My pH is 6.8)





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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Nitrate in your tap or the fert could account for seeing nitrates, if you used seed media from a preexsisting cycled filter you will also get some.
My tap always tests at 20ppm nitrate even though my water report says it's never above 2ppm...


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Holy cow,
> 
> Just tested water.
> 
> ...


There's nothing wrong with those numbers in a tank that hasn't cycled. As far as nitrates go, I keep my nitrates around 20ish almost all the time. Sometimes even more like 40ppm.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Go get a bottle tetra safe start. Should look like this 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...=pla&catargetid=530005150000091131&cadevice=c

Dump half in tank and half in the HOB filter. Test water 24hrs later and show us the results.

I dare ya


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> Go get a bottle tetra safe start. Should look like this
> 
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...=pla&catargetid=530005150000091131&cadevice=c
> 
> ...


Ha ok

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

AquaAurora said:


> Nitrate in your tap or the fert could account for seeing nitrates, if you used seed media from a preexsisting cycled filter you will also get some.
> My tap always tests at 20ppm nitrate even though my water report says it's never above 2ppm...


Thanks, thinking more likely ferts since I'm pretty familiar with my tap levels.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I STRONGLY advise against tetra safe star in your tank. I tried using it on a partially cycled 55g (nitrites were taking too long to go down). Followed directions and got a crashed cycle! Had to start from scratch. Tetra has a "money back 'guarentee'" that does not bother to mention you have to send them (at your expense to never be refunded) the original recipe, the empty bottle, and a water sample from the fails tank (that they won't tell you how much to send). They refuse to send the oginal recept back or what ever container you use to ship the water sample. And after all that.. Still will not guard tree a refund of the original purchase.

TLDR: don't buy tetra safe start, their guarentee is a lie, and the product can and will trash a partially cycled tank.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

AquaAurora said:


> I STRONGLY advise against tetra safe star in your tank. I tried using it on a partially cycled 55g (nitrites were taking too long to go down). Followed directions and got a crashed cycle! Had to start from scratch. Tetra has a "money back 'guarentee'" that does not bother to mention you have to send them (at your expense to never be refunded) the original recipe, the empty bottle, and a water sample from the fails tank (that they won't tell you how much to send). They refuse to send the oginal recept back or what ever container you use to ship the water sample. And after all that.. Still will not guard tree a refund of the original purchase.
> 
> TLDR: don't buy tetra safe start, their guarentee is a lie, and the product can and will trash a partially cycled tank.


If this happened I bet it wasn't the safe starts fault. I've used it in over 20 tanks and never had issues with any.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Oh man.

Well I'm going out of town in the morning and won't be back until Monday so I'm not doing anything until at least then.

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Oh man.
> 
> Well I'm going out of town in the morning and won't be back until Monday so I'm not doing anything until at least then.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Good call


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Chris_Produces said:


> Go get a bottle tetra safe



I think StartSmart Complete and Ecological Labs Microbe Lift Bacteria Balancer are superior to Tetra.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jeffturneraz said:


> Oh man.
> Well I'm going out of town in the morning and won't be back until Monday so I'm not doing anything until at least then.


Still got some hair algae? 
How long is the light going to be left on?

I think 3hrs on/ 3hrs/ 3hrs on until you get DIY Co2 going is best. Otherwise the hair algae will be out of control when you get back.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

hilde said:


> still got some hair algae?
> How long is the light going to be left on?
> 
> I think 3hrs on/ 3hrs/ 3hrs on until you get diy co2 going is best. Otherwise the hair algae will be out of control when you get back.


+ 1


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Hilde said:


> Still got some hair algae?
> How long is the light going to be left on?
> 
> I think 3hrs on/ 3hrs/ 3hrs on until you get DIY Co2 going is best. Otherwise the hair algae will be out of control when you get back.


I definitely do have hair algae.

My co2 is going strong and has been going strong. I change the bottles every 4 or 5 max days...and I only change them out at night well after the light goes out.

Light is still been on for 7 hours. 

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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

put some type of algae eating fish in there.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

180g said:


> put some type of algae eating fish in there.


That's the plan when the tank finishes cycling, whether I get the stuff to speed it up or not, but can't put anything just yet.

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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

good luck!


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

180g said:


> good luck!


Thank you. I think I will probably need that, ha.

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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

jeffturneraz said:


> Thank you. I think I will probably need that, ha.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


lol


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Someone somewhere has probably noted this, but from doing diy co2...

I seem to get insane co2 production when I make the sugar water mix earlier in the day.

Maybe it's my imagination... or maybe, when the sugar has much more time to fully dissolve, the yeast can better break it down.

I did this by mistake. I started to make a batch and had to stop in the middle. Since I had already poured 2 cups of sugar in water, I didn't want it to go to waste, so I set it aside then later that night, I added the yeast and topped it off.

That bottle gave me insane amounts of co2 so I tried it again and it still does.

Just figured I would mention for the diy folks. Try mixing and shaking sugar and water in the morning then finish the rest that night.

Worth a try.

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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

I take it the light is coming on correctly now?


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Chris_Produces said:


> I take it the light is coming on correctly now?


Yes, well yesterday it did and that was the first day after the malfunction so we'll see if it continues to work.

It better, heading to the airport in an hour.

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

What's up guys!? I'm back from vacation.

What the heck is this!?!?










...and in one more spot a few inches away is this one.










I recently placed gel caps under these area (w/ osmocote inside) and I have seen pieces of the gel cap come loose before and dissolve in an odd way but idk...

It's only in these 2 spots, the 2 pics you see here, nowhere else in tank. It seems odd to me it happens only where sub meets sand. But maybe that is just coincidence. 

Anybody know what this is?

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Okay so hair algae is everywhere since I returned from my trip.

Yesterday, none of my LFS had amano so I went out and got 13 ghost shrimp to cut down on this hair algae.

Here's a few pics.




























First thing that happened was one of the shrimp got sucked into power head and caused it to not function the same. I took the gaurd off the intake and have the co2 feeding directly into bottom.

This chops the bubbles up really well.

Well after the shrimp went in, water flow was still happening but the bubbles weren't coming out.

So I ran and grabbed a new power head, left the intake gaurd on this time, but clipped a hole so only the airline tube could fit.












Overnight, the shrimp have already went to work on the algae. There was quite a bit missing already.

I don't plan on giving them any food until this hair algae is at least cut way down.

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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jeffturneraz said:


> Okay so hair algae is everywhere since I returned .


What is the nitrate level? When I had hair algae it was high. Are you doing weekly water changes? Weekly water changes help me. Now just do monthly water changes.


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## leemacnyc (Dec 28, 2005)

Just a heads-up. You need to keep the water level in the tank as high as possible or else your HOB filter is going to "gas out" your CO2. You want minimum turbulence at the water/air level.

I've got a 10G planted and used to run DIY C02 thru the impeller of my HOB until I found the Hagen Elite Mini which i really love, not only do I have more "control" over the C02, but the added circulation in the water column is excellent as well!

Good luck & welcome aboard!


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Hilde said:


> What is the nitrate level? When I had hair algae it was high. Are you doing weekly water changes? Weekly water changes help me. Now just do monthly water changes.


The nitrate is currently at around 5 ppm.

Maybe in between 5 & 10 on the color chart. I hold the tube up to the chart a million different angles from the light but sometimes I really can't say for sure which color it is closest to.

Also, yes I have done up to 2 WC a week so far but at the least 1.

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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

leemacnyc said:


> Just a heads-up. You need to keep the water level in the tank as high as possible or else your HOB filter is going to "gas out" your CO2. You want minimum turbulence at the water/air level.
> 
> I've got a 10G planted and used to run DIY C02 thru the impeller of my HOB until I found the Hagen Elite Mini which i really love, not only do I have more "control" over the C02, but the added circulation in the water column is excellent as well!
> 
> Good luck & welcome aboard!


Thanks!

I have had my co2 going into my power head since the first week.

I only fed it into my hob for maybe 3 days until I realized there wasn't enough pressure to push it through the media in there.

My power head chops it up really well.

I'm assuming your hagen is a power head?

I do keep my water line high. It is like a water molecule away from touching the bottom of my filter...but I only did this because I have taller plants underneath the hob that get pushed down if I let the current get too strong.










Thanks for the welcome!

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## leemacnyc (Dec 28, 2005)

Affirmative. The Hagen Elite Mini is a little powerhead I put in the bottom of the tank and "spray" the co2 across the back, this is in addition to the HOB. I think the added circulation cuts down on dead spots.

I still think you could add more water, up to the rim, for optimal conditions

Cheers!


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

I'm sure I'm not the first to do this but I put 1 root tab in the glass to observe how it broke down.

It's been about one week and although the gel cap is totally gone, the pellets so far look unchanged.

Wonder how long they take to look like they are dissolving a little.

Anyway...I will be interested to watch.

After 1 week:










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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Not sure if my tank is some sort of sexy hangout or if these guys came pregnant but at least 3 of them are.










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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

My ghost shrimp were not doing that great eating hair algae.

I came across conflicting information but in the end realized, yes ghost shrimp will eat hair algae but about like humans will eat frog legs...we will try it but that's about it.

I have been avoiding ordering anything online because the temps here are insane, 107 every day...but I tried calling stores that were further away and had luck.

I made the long drive to grab my first amano's I have heard so much about.

That was yesterday, I grabbed 4 for a 10 gallon.

First of all, these little guys are like crackheads for hair algae. They're little arms are going a million miles an hour.

This is awesome. Although I can't tell a huge difference yet, I have a lot for them to work through so it may take me a while to see noticeable change.

The ghost shrimp are still in the tank with them.

So far, all day the amano's have stayed grouped together up on the "tree."

There is hair algae on this for them to eat but I suspect they are up here for safety.

Going to remove as many ghost shrimp as I can today.

Here are the 4 new amanos huddled together.










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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> My ghost shrimp were not doing that great eating hair algae.
> 
> I came across conflicting information but in the end realized, yes ghost shrimp will eat hair algae but about like humans will eat frog legs...we will try it but that's about it.
> 
> ...


Amanos are just those type of shrimp that will forever be one of my favorites. They have some of the greatest personalities of shrimp, and quite frankly are some of the best cleaners I've ever had in my tank. Ate off entire areas of algae off driftwood and plants I've placed in a tank before and try to swipe food from fish before they even get chances.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> Amanos are just those type of shrimp that will forever be one of my favorites. They have some of the greatest personalities of shrimp, and quite frankly are some of the best cleaners I've ever had in my tank. Ate off entire areas of algae off driftwood and plants I've placed in a tank before and try to swipe food from fish before they even get chances.


Yes, been less than a day and I already love these guys!

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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

jeffturneraz said:


> Yes, been less than a day and I already love these guys!
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Be warned about jumpers though. If you've ever seen stories on TPT about amanos jumping out, THEY'RE TRUE. I've even had it happen to me before. Went from 12 to 7 just for this problem. Don't even know how, but I believe they used some floating plants to climb over the tips of the aquarium and jumped out. Found them dried and dead on the other side of my room...


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

mistuhmarc said:


> Be warned about jumpers though. If you've ever seen stories on TPT about amanos jumping out, THEY'RE TRUE. I've even had it happen to me before. Went from 12 to 7 just for this problem. Don't even know how, but I believe they used some floating plants to climb over the tips of the aquarium and jumped out. Found them dried and dead on the other side of my room...


Oh boy...yeah I have seen stories.

I do not have a lid. I was hoping they'll want to not jump with so much food and nothing to bother them.

I just removed all 9 of the ghost shrimp so they have the tank all to themselves.

I also heard they are likely to jump out for air if they are being gassed too much.

I hope these 4 don't jump anytime soon.

Lots of algae to clean plus I drove far to get them.

PS catching ghost shrimp in a planted tank was pretty tricky!

I'm going to acclimate them in a bucket for an hour or so because the pH in the tank they are about to go in is about 1.3 higher.

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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

mistuhmarc said:


> Amanos are just those type of shrimp that will forever be one of my favorites.


What fish can you have in the tank with them that won't eat them?


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

Hilde said:


> What fish can you have in the tank with them that won't eat them?


Amanos get pretty big for dwarf shrimp. The biggest fish I had them with were apistos, and they even attempt to steal food from the apistos too . It's funny. More than likely they work with most moderate sized fish. And since they can't breed in freshwater, you won't have to worry about the babies getting eaten.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

Been a while since I updated this.

I had an insane algae outbreak as I had very high light with diy co2.

Finally got a proper light (current sat fresh +) and also pressurized co2.

The day before I hooked up my new equipment, I hit my tank with the 1-2 algae punch using only 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons. Actually injected 30 ml. which is a little more than 2 tbl spoons but not by much.

It worked but removing all the dead algae by hand has me almost at square 1 which is tearing plants out anyway.

I read it would eventually melt so I'm going to give it another day then if not I'll be ordering some plants Monday.

Anyhow, here's a few pics. I will be interested to see what happens next since I almost feel like I just now really started now having proper lights and no more diy co2.

Oh and one last thing. All 4 of my amanos survived the 1-2 punch no problem.



















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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

The 1-2 algae punch worked but there was too much dead algae to remove so I just re-scaped it.

Plants look stressed out from being in the 107 degree temps all day.



















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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

On the left where the glosso used to be I put dhg in.

I figured since I was so awesome at growing glosso vertical that maybe my dhg will carpet. Who knows!

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## BuddhaBoy (Jun 12, 2014)

I love my amanos. When I drop a algae wafer they rush over and fight the corys for a piece and drag it off and sit there munching a rediculously huge piece while playing keep away.


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## jeffturneraz (Apr 28, 2014)

BuddhaBoy said:


> I love my amanos. When I drop a algae wafer they rush over and fight the corys for a piece and drag it off and sit there munching a rediculously huge piece while playing keep away.


I feel like I will never have a tank without them now that I have them. 

Whether that holds true who knows but yes they are awesome.

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