# Problems with berried females and shrimplet survival rates using Fluval stratum?



## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

Sooo I keep finding mention on other forums of folks starting to notice a possible connection between berried females dying and dropping eggs and a greatly reduced survival rate of shrimplets even being hatched let alone making it to adulthood.

Now I currently do not love this substrate in general, but I wasn't going to change it out of my tanks just yet.

This makes me want to just ditch it completely. Thoughts, experiences, opinions?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Sorry if you mentioned this in your other threads but what shrimp are you talking about? I figure that the neocaridina shrimp will breed well anywhere with substrate or not.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

I have bred several rounds of CRS in it with no problems. Just coincidence that people are noticing this IMO.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I think it's an unnecessary freak out. I've been using it since it was released with every kind of shrimp and critter available in the U.S.


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## EKLiu (Jan 14, 2010)

I have had several clutches of CRS hatch in my Ebi with Fluval Stratum substrate and the shrimp are doing just fine.


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## Alpha Pro Breeders (Jan 26, 2010)

I've been using it in quite a few tanks for several months with no problems at all.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

I think it's as with anything, you only hear of the bad sides normally when people complain on the internet. 
I repair xboxes and sometimes people come in and they're like, Microsoft sucks, I read on xbox forums and read thousands of people who have failures. Yes, you are on a forum dedicated to xboxes, maybe even xbox repair, of course the forums are going to be full of thousands of posts of people with problems. What you don't see are the owners of the 40 million xbox 360's that are out there running fine. Those 40 million people don't say anything when everything is fine.

With the fluval soil, it is a popular product, sold at all LFS's, in kits with all the nice looking cube tanks, etc. So someone who decides, I want to buy shrimp and breed them without much knowledge, is going to buy what the petco/petsmart/walmart, whatever has that say shrimp on it. 99% of the time that is going be the Fluval. Does petco carry ADA or Netlea or other brands? No, they are specialized soils that you have to order, can only get in certain areas, etc, so from the general public of people who keep shrimp, they are using the Fluval and the dedicated/more serious people are going to invest more in better soil.

So you couple the fact that is Fluval is probably used in a lot of casual shrimp only tanks, by inexperienced people, and unless you post threads like that, people don't usually post success stories for no reason, you are going to see a lot of complaints with regards to the most commonly used product as opposed to say people complaining of Netlea soil. Its a product not really used out of Japan, not available in the states, and I know 1 store sells it in Canada, so I don't expect a lot of good/bad/anything on it.

Crystal shrimp require a lot of work and param's and throwing $200 of them in a Fluval tank expecting to get rich without knowing tank chemistry, keeping stable params, etc, you're not going to have luck and want to blame the soil. I have an inch or so of Fluval in my 20long and 5.5gal capped over an inch of eco-complete (something else that people complain about, but one of the most popular sold in LFS's, so most popular means the most used, means more complaints) and I fed my shrimp earlier and saw over 100 RCS/PFR all out on the fluval, doing fine, all sizes, breeding fine, and all kinds of yellow babies swimming around in the 5.5gal. For my crystal tank, I use Netlea, it has way better buffering to keep it down to 6pH, 4gH, but for the neo's, I've had no problem with it. Going on forum posts, my neo tanks have the 2 worst substrates used. lol.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I also have had many shrimp hatch and be fine in the fluval stratum, as with most everyone who uses it.

It's possible there was a bad batch somewhere along the line, but I doubt it. A handful of people have had problems raising shrimp in it, but I and others have had no problem at all.


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks! I was wondering if it was just a few folks trying to pin the blame on something and deciding to use the soil as a scapegoat, lol.

However I really DO hate planting in the stuff. Really hate it. Is ADA or Eco Complete truly a better soil?

If so why? 

And ah ... are they easier to plant in at least?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Eco complete is gonna be easy to plant in, but ada and fluval is harder to plant in because it's light weight. Hardest thing to plant in soil is foreground plants, which is why Dry Start Method is basically the bee's knees when it comes to aquasoil. Once the foreground is established and rooted, you can flood your tank and it'll continue to grow and stay rooted.

With eco-complete, it's more like tiny rocks, which are heavy and hold roots down, makign it easier to plant in.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

I have stratum...and I can NOT keep even RCS alive in there past 3 weeks. There's nothing wrong with my water although it's a bit acid (~6-7ph) but the water's relatively hard...(5-6gh). The shrimp just fail to molt or start seizing or something and fall over dead... 

They would survive when I had eco comp...then when stratum came about...kaput no more shrimp.


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## go9ma123 (Oct 5, 2007)

I just have setup one of the tank with fluval substrate.
It looks pretty good.
I have my brown shrimps breeding well with no substate... and people who failed or hating should think about their water quality...


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

+1 on the dry start. Allows your plants to develop a strong root system prior to flooding the tank.

Just about anything can be tough to plant things like HC and UG (even Eco-Complete, though it's a bit heavier and rough - so more likely to have better luck when planting with water in the tank) in when a tank is completely filled.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

I had mucho problemas until I started using FSS. I have half sand, half FSS tanks. Now I have two tanks full of berried shrimp. The only shrimp that seem to drop eggs are young/1st timers. I don't worry about shrimplet demise. I do nothing special to help them along. The 15-20% that survive are awesome.

I had bad rock in one tank that I determined was a major contributing factor to shrimp death. Lost a ton of beautiful OEBTs and PFRs. If your H2O is A-OK, check your hardscape.

FSS is a PITA to plant most stem plants, without weights that is. I like it for DHG & PCS as they can spread easily in the loose substrate. Pygmy Chain spreads slow, period, though...

EDIT: That's what I get for trying to hurry and post something at work. I don't mean Pygmy Chain Sword. I actually meant Micro Sword, narrow (lilaeopsis mauritiana). Molasses slow...


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

I have 6 tanks all with shrimp stratum, I have no problems with OEBT, TT, SSS CRS, any neos, blue bees, BOET. o far in my tanks everyone does well in it.


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## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

From my experience, my CRS colored up much better when in the Fluval stratum. Also, so far no deaths and its a tank barely 1 month old submerged. It had gone through a 2 month of emersed growth before that. 

I would highly recommend doing DSM with this substrate if you want any carpeting plants. Even with my HC, even until today even a slight pull would uproot them since the substrate is so soft like Liam said.


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## wheezo (May 19, 2009)

I have had trouble with Fluval Stratum. You probably read my post. I'm not here to bash the substrate. This is what happened for me. In short, 4 Crystals berried. 2 babies. No babies. 2 Crystals berried. 2 babies. No babies. 2 crystals berried. Moved to another tank. 

2 babies in a hatch is really low and there were 4 berried shrimps. Not to mention they didn't survive after a week. I keep crystals in another tank with no problems... no FSS either. Got hundreds.

Maybe I got a bad batch of crystals? Maybe I got a bad batch of Fluval Stratum? I'm testing the crystals in another tank now but... I don't plan on buying Fluval Stratum again.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

While entirely possible you got a bad batch of Fluval product, there are so many factors at play it'd be tough to tell. Unless your parameters, tank age, plant load and everything else is completely identical.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

I recently tore down my 8gallon cube because I didn't have any babies surviving but it wasn't FSS, it was Netlea soil, which everyone seems to want and says it awesome for shrimp. I had seen at 1 time over 20 babies that I could count and not one lived, all I had in there was low grades too, A-S grade. It may have been the planaria, the hydra, using tap water with it, not sure, too small to keep stable params, not sure.

I bought a 20gal, filled it with netlea, been using RO water with Mosara mineral plus, put cycled filters on it, mosses from my other tanks, no planaria, no hydra, its only a month old and I saw 6 babies this morning, SS+ grade and a golden or two as I've increased my stock and added SS,SSS, golden to it, so higher grade babies are surviving in the same soil where low grade babies didn't last at all.

Is it the soil. No. This stuff seems to be revered by people on here because Its not available in the US and used in Japan. It could have been the infestation, the tap water had something in it, didn't have a TDS pen at the time to keep the TDS in check, bigger tank keeping params more stable, I don't know but in 8 months and clutches after clutches of berried moms and never had 1 baby last, something was up, but I don't blame the soil in any way. I blame my inexperience more than anything. Now I don't WC very much, just top off, monitor my ph/gh/TDS more, use RO water only, no pests in the tank. I have 4 or 5 more berried moms ready to pop anyday so we'll see what happens over the next few months with baby rates.


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## raven_wilde (Jul 12, 2006)

Jeffww said:


> I have stratum...and I can NOT keep even RCS alive in there past 3 weeks. There's nothing wrong with my water although it's a bit acid (~6-7ph) but the water's relatively hard...(5-6gh). The shrimp just fail to molt or start seizing or something and fall over dead...
> 
> They would survive when I had eco comp...then when stratum came about...kaput no more shrimp.



I had a similiar experience and honestly, after I checked my water params and then had my LFS to double check them, I seriously began to think that the culprit was the Fluval Stratum (like maybe I got a bad batch or something). However, before I did anything drastic I stopped for a moment and took stock of my hardscape... and purely out of paranoia I called the hardware store where I had purchased the stainless steel mesh I was using to start a moss carpet and asked them for exact specs on it. Turns out it was zinc coated and nobody mentioned that when I bought it.

Anyway... after about 2 dozen RCS deaths and my suspecting just about everything but the steel mesh, heavy metal poisoning turned out to be the problem, not the stratum. 

So, long story short, I'd definitely advise checking over your hardscape.


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

@getochckn I don't know how high it is in Canada but the TDS in my tap is in the high 400's right off the bat. Your probably lower but I would bet still higher than crs really care for. 
@Raven good advice.


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## 05black6mtc (Aug 11, 2011)

Pictures of MY shrimps in MY tank with FSS.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I just got 10 new CBS from a local who's got them breeding like gangbusters in her FSS tanks. They're not breeding in mine however. I think I'm going to set up a larger tank and see if that helps.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

PC1 said:


> @getochckn I don't know how high it is in Canada but the TDS in my tap is in the high 400's right off the bat. Your probably lower but I would bet still higher than crs really care for.
> @Raven good advice.


My TDS comes out of the tap at about 230, not really that high, but its what that 230 is made of. If its all PCB's and mercury, than its bad. lol. gH/kH are like 10 each, tap water is 7.6


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## ohbaby714 (Feb 23, 2011)

My experience with FSS is also not good for Caridina. I have a couple tank with it and just not doing as well as i like.
It's probabaly my lack of experience, or other parameter i don't know. But I'm very skepticle about it. 

Anyway, I use it in my Neo tank only and they breeds like roaches (which they normaly do anyway)


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

FSS doesn't have the KH buffering capacity of Aquasoil, which seems to be the most common CRS soil people like. I'm wondering if that's part of the problem people are having with it in these small tanks. Especially since most RO additives only affect GH and not KH.


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

RandomMan said:


> FSS doesn't have the KH buffering capacity of Aquasoil, which seems to be the most common CRS soil people like. I'm wondering if that's part of the problem people are having with it in these small tanks. Especially since most RO additives only affect GH and not KH.


That's a thought, I do great with it but my tanks are moderate size at 20T i also use massive air pumps on 2 large wall sponge filters that gives me an actual gentle currant in the tanks.


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## charlie 1 (Oct 22, 2006)

I thought i should add my personal experience with the fluval Shrimp stratum.
I started a dedicated 15 gallon CRS tank in Feb 2011 using this soil & no experience with crs, at present the tank is still buffering to 6.4 & tons of CRS, in fact i have shared & sold approx150 CRS from this tank & are still breeding like cherry shrimp.
Regards
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/8057_CRS000001_Mediumc.jpg


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

I've had no problems breeding Taiwan fire reds and CRS in my EBI with FSS.


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## bigboij (Jul 24, 2009)

in my ebi,started mid Dec 10', crs pop went from 20 - to over a 100-150+ easily when i started some of them them away to my buddy (to lazy to ship sale) i have done nothing for maint to this tank other than toping off with distilled water from walmart and give it a tiny splash of the minerals mix they give you with the ebi every 3 or so months months.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

I may be one that got the "bad batch" or something, but mine lost its buffering capability very quickly and I have a very low baby survival rate. Everything else was "by the book" according too what everybody else does. I also find that mine breaks down incredibly quick compared too other substrates I have used... it just like disintegrates. 

This is just my personal experience with it, not trying too debate it being good or bad or anything like that but I personally won't use it again.


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## tbarabash (May 18, 2011)

I have my rcs going nuts in them.. I'd say I get about 5 survived babies per berries
Mother. How is that for survival rates? Not that great I'd think. I used to
Put all my pregnant ones in a spec and would get 15-20 survived per mom


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

hmm.... i may have to setup my 5 gallon with some Cherries and see how that goes. i wouldnt gamble with the CRS....


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Hop on the hearsay train fellas.....


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Jeffww said:


> I have stratum...and I can NOT keep even RCS alive in there past 3 weeks. There's nothing wrong with my water although it's a bit acid (~6-7ph) but the water's relatively hard...(5-6gh). The shrimp just fail to molt or start seizing or something and fall over dead...
> 
> They would survive when I had eco comp...then when stratum came about...kaput no more shrimp.


Since this thread has been dug back up, I just want to point something out. 

if you only know that your ph is 6-7, you are missing a lot of water parameters. Blaming FSS seems a little(a lot) presumptuous.


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## cardgenius (Mar 27, 2011)

Ive had a great experience with Fluval Shrimp Stratum so far. My CRS have been breeding since the first month they were added. Ive had 2 females give birth with just about all the babies surviving and I currently have 5-7 berried females.

I also keep my Fire Red/PFRs in it and they breed like rabbits. Both tanks have been setup for about 6 months now. PH stays at 6.6.

There are a few things I dont like about it. Its really light and any type of direct flow to it will blow a hole through it to the bottom of the tank. It seems like its constantly breaking down which causes the sponge on the intake to clog up every couple months.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

I have fluorite substrate and what looks to be like hardly any male CRS but I blame Fluval stratum substrate for this.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i dont have any problem with fss. i have a but load of baby rili on it and the moms stay berried. i even have my crystal reds on it but might be a while befor they berry since they are kinda new on it


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

MY PFRS/ TFRS seem to do great bought about 100 2 months ago I am sitting around 200+ now, the females all get berried fast, saddle fast, molt well, and I have yet to notice a death of a baby or shrimp.

I am using some other substrate in another tank I am cycling it is shrimp sand by up aqua and I will let everyone know how that does. But I have OEBT in a FSS and they seem to be doing well 4 males 1 female, my bad luck just buying 5. They are doing well, female is not old enough to get berried yet will let you know. I am buying more OEBT shortly and then more in Mid april.

I do agree FSS is a little lite.... Could be a little heavier so it does not fly every where and so you can plant better in it.


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## Alaizabelle (Apr 7, 2011)

I love my fss! I've got 7 tanks with it, and none of them have shown any bad sides :| I've got CRS, CBS, greens, orange eye blue tigers, orange neos, fire reds, snowballs, and yellows. All my shrimp berry just fine, babies have great survival rates (I wish there weren't so many snowballs, sometimes!), and the water parameters have stayed pretty stable 

I'm rather in love with this substrate, actually


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

I removed it in my obet tank ... and all my deaths stopped. No berried females as of yet ... but truthfully just happy that they all stopped dying on me.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

i put it in the tank and ended up doing a water change after seeing a cloud storm and but mainly to clean up the oily residue that was left against the glass and surface of the water. It is definitely delicate and easily lifts with any gentle current. currently cycling now with MTS, oto and 2 neons. I lost a neon after adding him/her to the tank, but I suspect it may be an issue with stress more than the substrate.

I cant argue it does look great in the tank.


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