# Alternatives to Eheim and Fluval canisters



## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm absolutely fed up with the Eheim filters I've been using on my tanks, both planted and unplanted for the past several years. I have similarly given up on Fluvals because they were even more cheaply built (all that plastic) and am now looking for alternatives. The industry seems to have trained us all to believe that it's OK for a filter to cost hundreds of dollars and then slowly lose power and eventually fail (and yes I keep the impellers clean and otherwise maintain the filters) after a year of use. I'm generally fed up with all of this overpriced Chinese made crap in the aquarium industry (including lights - another topic altogether) and am looking for alternatives.

I've noticed on a couple of videos, generally from Asia, that there seems to be a stainless steel canister filter that is being made somewhere...and am wondering if anybody here has seen these or know what brand they are. I'm assuming that if the canister is stainless the motors/design will be better too, and probably just as expensive as can be imagined. Ideas, anybody?


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=76_26_43

http://www.adana.co.jp/en/products/na_filter/super_jet_filter/


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Thanks*

I guess I shouldn't be shocked by the facts: these start at $550 for the "entry" model, about which I can't find out much except that they're out of stock everywhere I checked. Is this the only alternative to the aforementioned plastic junk?


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

ADA is basically going to be the benchmark as far as a stainless canister filter. I've seen a few knockoffs posted from time to time but can't think of the brands. It also seems like the knockoffs are usually on a European or Asian site, not available or, at least, easily available in the US.

If you're seriously interested in one contact Frank at Aquarium Design Group. I think they're expecting a container order sometime soon and may have some in their order. The guys at AquaForest are good to deal with also and could let you know when they expect to be back in stock. Those are the only two ADA dealers in the US.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Ouch*

AFA is similarly out of stock on these, price for the "entry model" with them is over $800. Has anybody used them? Are they THAT good?

What sort of filter media do they use? Are replacement media/parts similarly hard to get and expensive?


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

There are always sunsun filters.. I have 3 and love them. Two 302's and one 403b. At least they are worth their price.. Which is roughly half or more off eheim/fluval prices.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

The variation in pricing on the entry model is probably due to different canister sizes being available with each model. The ES600 has 2 or 3 different canister sizes. The prices also include lily pipes. They use any media you want but ADA is going to recommend their carbon and BioCube for a new filter and finally transitioning over to BioRio ( biomedia ) after the filter has matured.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

HolyAngel said:


> There are always sunsun filters.. I have 3 and love them. Two 302's and one 403b. At least they are worth their price.. Which is roughly half or more off eheim/fluval prices.


Don't take this the wrong way but I think the OP is looking for something other than the usual plastic canister. Half price or not, plastic is plastic.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

If you are unsatisfied with your ehiems I seriously doubt anything (available at a reasonable price) is going to satisfy you in terms of filter quality. You might want to try looking into building your own, or, building a sump.


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

dubvstudent said:


> If you are unsatisfied with your ehiems I seriously doubt anything (available at a reasonable price) is going to satisfy you in terms of filter quality. You might want to try looking into building your own, or, building a sump.


+1 on this one. Although Aquaclears are also plastic, you get to pick the pump. However there's a bit of sticker shock there also when the whole package is considered.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

Short answer - no. Eheim and Fluval are about as good as it gets, unfortunately. I agree that value is not what it should be, and after my past couple tries trying to warranty a broken part (and being told to pound sand), I'm done with that noise.

My next tank > 40 gallons will have a sump.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Thanks/motor placement and bacterial growth*

You folks have me thinking that even with my limited technical skills I might be better off thinking about some DIY. Pointers to old threads or other sources of info on DIY/sump making would be much appreciated. 

I'd be willing to put up with the plastic if the motors and basic design were reasonably good. I don't care what the manufacturers say about "German design", either the designs of these canister filters are junk or the execution/parts are terrible. And I just can not afford that Amano design stuff...I know it's probably great but not until I strike oil in the backyard will I be able to afford over a grand per tank just for filtration. Does anybody buy their contention that having the motor on the outside results in more bacterial activity inside the canister? Has this been empirically proven?


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Making your own Canister filters*

And here's another idea that's liable to get me into trouble...given that there's no shortage of PVC and polycarbonate fixtures for plumbing and I'm sure that reasonably high (better than the crap they use in the aforementioned brands) pump assemblages must be available somewhere, why can't you just make your own canister filters from stock parts and a bit of shop time? Really, what's in these things but a bunch of plastic holding together some tubes and a pump?


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## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

You totally can build your own canisters with all pvc plumbing and a high quality external pump.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Thanks Al*

...tell me more...designs available somewhere?


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

Here's an example that I nearly followed: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?172675-My-DIY-Canister-Filter

Instead I went with a Rena. I've heard good things from other people so opted for the pre-built solution. If it ends up failing, I'll likely go DIY. Kind of looks like a fun DIY project


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

If i could find a place to get a good stainless cylinder, i would make my own ADA filter as well. They use the standard base model iwaki mag pump, and are simple to an extreme. The basic design is as follows: Stainless cylinder with unput at the bottom. Screen in the bottom of the cylinder to elevate the media about an inch so that media doesnt clog the inlet. Inlet is driven by siphon. Media is above the inlet all the way to the pump inlet which is just a steel tube with the bottom submerged in the water. Pump sits on the lid , is fed by that inlet, and pumps back to the aquarium. Gotta have a good watertight seal on the lid of the canister.

Extremely simple operation with nearly zero bypass and infinite flexibility. With a little bit of welding (or pipe fitting if you dont know how to weld), a stainless cylinder, a few clams for the lid, a big silicone O ring for the lid seal, and the ultra quiet pump of your choice, youve got a state of the art stainless canister filter.

Like people above have said, if you aren't satisfied with Eheim then you probably arent going to be satisfied with anything less than an ADA or a well built DIY unit, because it doesn't get better than Eheim. There are reports of Eheim filters lasting for over 20 years with just impeller replacements. ALL filters will clog with use over time too, unless you have a gigantic media surface area filtering a small tank, so it wouldn't get clogged as quickly.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Alternatives to the Iwaki pump*

include the Blueline pumps, which while I bet they're made in China are supposed to have been designed by Iwaki and work on the same principles as the original at about 1/5 the price.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

samamorgan said:


> If i could find a place to get a good stainless cylinder, i would make my own ADA filter as well.



I think the idea has been discussed, and as I recall, there was talk of using a stainless steel housing originally intended for use as a pressure cooker. I don't think a working prototype was ever created, but finding a stainless housing like ADA uses is a surprisingly tall order.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

Booger said:


> I think the idea has been discussed, and as I recall, there was talk of using a stainless steel housing originally intended for use as a pressure cooker. I don't think a working prototype was ever created, but finding a stainless housing like ADA uses is a surprisingly tall order.


Yeah exactly, i've looked everywhere. Thought about maybe uysing one of those airtight stainless food containers, or just having a local metal shop fabricate me one out of flat sheet.

Honestly i'm quite happy with my Eheim filters though, but i relish a new project.


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## josolanes (Feb 28, 2012)

Hmm regarding cylinders: http://www.jamaligarden.com/detail/17585/2/metal/vases/stainless-steel-cylinder-vases.php

I imagine, in general, an exhaust shop may be able to help some also and often aren't very expensive. You pick a width that you would want and I'm sure they could use some scrap metal to seal it or do whatever else you'd like

Granted, the exhaust shop solution may not be the prettiest but with some sanding you can probably make it look somewhat attractive too

Just trying to think a bit outside the box in case it might help. The above solutions may either sound great or crazy - I'm good with either of those


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

josolanes said:


> Hmm regarding cylinders: http://www.jamaligarden.com/detail/17585/2/metal/vases/stainless-steel-cylinder-vases.php
> 
> I imagine, in general, an exhaust shop may be able to help some also and often aren't very expensive. You pick a width that you would want and I'm sure they could use some scrap metal to seal it or do whatever else you'd like
> 
> ...


Oh wow, that 6x16 might be perfect, though 8 or 10 diameter would be better. Would just have to fabricate a place to put a seal in the top and a lid. The exhaust shop is a good idea, thought they wouldnt have any tube bigger than 4 inches i'll bet. I dont think even turbo diesel trucks have bigger than a 4 inch pipe.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Wouldn't you want the first layer of media to be on top for easy access/maintenance? If so then you'd want the flow to go through from top -> down.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Wouldn't you want the first layer of media to be on top for easy access/maintenance? If so then you'd want the flow to go through from top -> down.


Most filters aren't set up this way because the pump would have to be at the bottom. Eheim classics are set up just like this. The only filter i can think of that i *think* filters from the top down is the fluval FX5


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

Another thought would be get a clear acrylic cylinder. Much easier to come by and much easier to work with. Plus you can readily see how dirty your filter is. Might not be as impervious as stainless but as long as you dont care about it looking like a spectacular diamond, who cares.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

OK, I'm already in the shop and have started work on some DIY systems. I have to order some pumps and other goodies but will post with photos as things progress. 

I'm wondering if the top down or bottom up makes any difference at all. However, I am thinking that keeping the pump out of the canister itself is going to generate less heat to the water (I'm interested in using large volume/slow flow for planted nano shrimp tanks), prolong the life of the pump and make them easier to service. One of the other things I hate about the Fluvals and Ehiems is how GD messy they are to service...

I'm also wondering if this will make priming a lot easier as well.

If anybody else comes up with good ideas for prefab canisters that could simply be tapped or drilled for bulkhead fittings, let me know. Despite my complaints about too much plastic, I think the acrylic cylinder idea is a good one. Anybody know of a source for these with screw on lids?


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

bigignatz said:


> You folks have me thinking that even with my limited technical skills I might be better off thinking about some DIY. Pointers to old threads or other sources of info on DIY/sump making would be much appreciated.
> 
> I'd be willing to put up with the plastic if the motors and basic design were reasonably good. I don't care what the manufacturers say about "German design", either the designs of these canister filters are junk or the execution/parts are terrible. And I just can not afford that Amano design stuff...I know it's probably great but not until I strike oil in the backyard will I be able to afford over a grand per tank just for filtration. Does anybody buy their contention that having the motor on the outside results in more bacterial activity inside the canister? Has this been empirically proven?


Amen!, and no. There is no empirical evidence. Bait shops use old chest freezers to keep their fish in. Now, if I were inclined I would look at higher quality parts such as modular filter units like Ocean Clear or Pentair Lifeguard equipment. Add Iwaki or similar external pump(s), and you have a serious filtration system, all depending on what you budget. Those ADA filters are nothing more than designer handbags IMO. If you don't mind paying $1500 for $150 worth of filtration, go for it. For the record, I don't care for Bang and Olufsen either. Have you looked at pond filtration equipment?

Cheers


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

Moose, thanks for your input and encouragement. I think you've given me a good benchmark to work for here: $1500 worth (in ADA Dollars) of filtration for $150 in parts. The idea of using pond stuff is basically good, but what I've used in aquaponics systems has been loud and produces a lot of heat. However, you've encouraged me to look again to see if there's good stuff out there that can be bought cheaply off season so that hacks can be conducted that won't cost too much if they fail.


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## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

Another possible canister filter you could look into is Ocean Clear. It's somewhat modular. You'll also need a big external pump such as an Iwaki. There are designed for very large tanks, so it's not going to be worth the rather large investment in smaller tanks. You can see an example of them here (offsite) - http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3662

Another possible option is Lifeguard. It's also modular, and geared to larger tanks. You can see an example of them here (offsite) - http://www.lifegardaquatics.com/products/product.php?id=8 Individual modules and pumps are available.

Obviously this sort of stuff doesn't come cheep, and does require some installation and setup. Neither is a take it out of the box, fill it, and plug it in type of product.


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

samamorgan said:


> Most filters aren't set up this way because the pump would have to be at the bottom. Eheim classics are set up just like this. The only filter i can think of that i *think* filters from the top down is the fluval FX5



Odyssea CFS 500 = bottom pump


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

BTW bigignatz, I don't recall seeing how much water you plan on moving. Here we are throwing all kinds of ideas at you and unless I missed it, have no notion of your goal here. You mention nano tanks....


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

So plastic junk is overpriced. Quality filters are overpriced. I'm noticing a trend here.

If you were to try and build a stainless canister with a reliable seal, powered by a quality Iwaki pump, I don't think you'd do it for less. And I'd be willing to bet if you could, it wouldn't look as good. 

I agree with the comment about building your own system with an inline pump. You don't need a sump, but plumbing in an Ocean Clear or Lifegard module will be robust and dependable. Lifegard makes some smaller modules as well.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

A huge consideration I'm not seeing here is canister maintenance. Building a tightly enclosed chamber with pvc or whatever is one thing, but to be able to open the darn thing up for regular maintenance has to be a factor to consider. Also, if you look at the monsterfish link, that guy's diy canister failed and he made another one...http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?373510-PVC-Canister-revised-Made-2-of-em. But I still don't see it being maintenance friendly. Here's an interesting canister that seems to unscrew from the top...http://nicksreef.com/images/diy/Canister Filter.JPG

Otherwise I would just stick with a sump, it's a widely used and well proven filtration method, perfected by many reefers and just recently adopted and tweeked for planted tanks too.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Water volume/other issues/Death of an Eheim*

I should probably start this post by saying that events this weekend have brought this issue to a head for me (now this stuff is personal between me and Eheim), and have highlighted the need for immediate action. I've been trying for years to breed black banded sunfish. while gone for a week, the Eheim "Pro" (you need to be a "Pro" at getting these pieces of crap to work properly) filtering the tank just stopped working, again. Only a year old. I lost my best breeding pair and only saved the others by taking another POS Ehiem off of another established tank, doing a 50% water change and other emergency measures. These fish are particularly sensitive to ammonia and probably the fact that I was also running a backup large sponge filter in the tank may have saved some of them. While trying to get the top of the old filter off to fix it one more time, the handle broke. At this point I violently dissected the filter with the bottom of my feet. Gave me a look at just how these are put together, and what kind of a pathetic little pump they have driving this thing, one of their larger models. And I thought working with fish was supposed to be relaxing. 

So, I need to order some parts to start replacing all of these crap Eheims and Fluvals, I can't trust them even if I wanted to, which I don't. 

I'm thinking that I can pair a Blueline (Iwaki design but much cheaper, made in the China unfortunately) with a prefab canister such as an Ocean Clear or Lifegard module. However, I need to figure out optimum pump size/canister size. I have everything from nano tanks (2.5 - 5 gallons) all the way up to 60 breeders. The pumps are hideously expensive but I'm sure will last for years without my having to commit violent acts upon them, but there's no sense in overpowering the system and as an out of work conservation biologist I have to be careful about my remaining beans and tortillas money, . Does anybody know of general rules for optimum flow/optimum amount of medium?


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

I can't help you with engineering your hydraulics, but I bet someone at Blueline could. I want to mention Little Giant while discussing pumps that cost less money. They've been around for a very long time, and there are thousands of water tanks and sumps in grocery stores, bait shops, ponds, aquarium stores, and semi-commercial setups in use today. They might hum a little more than Iwaki, but they command respect for their bulletproof design and cost. If you get too far into the weeds, bigignatz, speak up because I have some oldy moldy codgers that know their stuff.. contacts from when I was a reefer and spent tens of thousands of dollars on those systems. I wish you the best.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Already in deep Hydrilla*

Thanks for the tip. I will try to track down some info on these pumps - something cheaper than Blueline would be great. I might have the ability to get a wholesale account through whoever it is that distributes Little Giant through my ecological restoration business...I'll keep you in the loop. As for the old codgers who might be able to answer my questions, It'd be really nice if they'd speak up now as the weeds and kim chi along with other organic substances are just about up past my ears. I'm so p*ssed off at this point about the lost fish (this was one of my pet projects as I think this species is grossly under-appreciated and shouldn't be collected from the wild anymore - these were from Europe despite the fact that it's a U.S. native but Europeans like this species) and I'm now going to make a point of buying any more lighting or filtration unless I can do my own quality control...so if you got the contacts, please put me in touch with them...you can PM me as well. Thanks for your interest and concern.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

*Too much power?*

Maybe this'll get a few more synapses firing...

The smallest "aquarium" pump that Little Giant distributes is 325 gph capacity and they rapidly go up from there. That seems pretty powerful, don't know and probably doesn't matter what the equivalent would be in a regular store bought canister as the flow rates steadily decline over a year anyway. So the question is, what size canister module should this pump be married with? If married with the right canister/medium, seems like this would be enough for a 40 breeder, which is about the smallest tank that I'll be messing with in the future. More water = more plants, less danger to breeding fish even if they don't use most of the tank. 

It also occurs to me that you could put in some sort of a pre-filter to keep the fish poop and uneaten food (I got some big fish) in line between the intake and the biofilter that could be easily and regularly serviced. Ideas as to what this might consist of would be greatly appreciated. 

One more bit of info - while I really don't like messing with Co2 injection I'll probably keep a 55 and a 125 on the system and the only thing that I've gotten to work for me is an in line "reactor" type of device with the bioballs in it...can't remember the brand. All other emitters seem to be crap.


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## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

No matter what pump you go with, make sure that you can purchase replacement parts for it. One of the reasons I like Iwaki is that replacement parts are available. 

There is nothing wrong with Blueline or Little Giant pumps, but do make sure you can get parts for them. No point in spending a bundle on the pump only have some small part break and making the whole thing useless because you can't get a part. 

Since the canister filters your looking at, such as Ocean Clear and Lifeguard use a pleated filter cartridge for mechanical filtration, you can use almost any size pump, within reason. Any bio filter modules would follow this module. 

A prefilter is not really necessary. What you do is keep a rotation of about 3 or 4 filter cartridges. One is in the filter, one in a bleach bath to clean it, and one in FW to clean the bleach solution out.


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## RukoTheWonderDog (Nov 11, 2011)

I thought I might chime in here. 

But first, ever used the Rena XP filters? I've run many different canisters in the past...the only ones I still use are my Eheim classics and a Rena XP3. I've run it for years without any noticeable loss in tanks with big fish (often in combination with other filters, if needed). I got rid of the Fluval almost as quickly as I bought it. I know you aren't looking for another cheap plastic unit, but I think these units are pretty well put together and have been easier to maintain and prime than my Eheim classics have.

SS has drastically come down in price in the past few years due to higher production of cheaper grades of SS in China. I mention this because all grades of SS are not the same....some SS will still oxidize and might not be suitable for this kind of thing. If you go this route, make sure you are getting the good stuff.

I would recommend finding any performance car forum and check out the threads about people who fabricate their own SS exhaust/intake/intercooler piping. You are bound to find somebody there that is a master of TIG welding SS, and could probably make you a very nice canister with minimal finish work needed afterwards. Some guys are really into welding and can lay beautiful beads. It would be cheaper to go this route than to go to a fab shop and pay the hourly rate there.

The PVC idea would be fine, but I also foresee problems with opening and closing the thing on a fairly regular basis. PVC threading is of poor tolerances and will most likely leak unless you use lots of teflon/thread sealer and a wrench to tighten it.

While I cannot speak for any of the Lifeguard Aquatics filters, I have been very disappointed with my Lifeguard Quiet One 4000 pumps. They sometimes start in reverse, are louder than the Danner Mag pumps I own (out of the box), and they have a tendency to dry lock and stop running more often than any other pump I've used. 

My local reef shop swears by the Ocean Clear canisters. I considered this route in the past, but opted for a sump instead. I don't know if I would do it the same again.


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

DaveK said:


> No matter what pump you go with, make sure that you can purchase replacement parts for it. One of the reasons I like Iwaki is that replacement parts are available.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with Blueline or Little Giant pumps, but do make sure you can get parts for them. No point in spending a bundle on the pump only have some small part break and making the whole thing useless because you can't get a part.
> 
> ...


Sage advice about the parts. I'll contact both Blueline and Little Giant to see if they stock replacement parts. Any ideas as to what usually fails on these and what I should ask for specifically? I can't imagine anything failing on a Japanese-made Iwaki, but I guess it could happen. 

I'm leaning away from Lifeguard stuff (too much variation of opinion about their products) and am leaning towards either Ocean Clear or the Inland Seas Nu-Clear for the canisters. Your idea on having the pleated filters in rotation is a good idea, rather than mess with an in line detritus trap. 

I'm also becoming increasingly interested in the idea of totally DIY "Veg" filter setups, which might require a bit more lighting but that sound simple to put together and might even look nice. More on that later if there's interest in my experiments in that area.


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## Beer (Feb 1, 2012)

What is a veg filter?

After looking at the ocean clear stuff, what about water filtration units? You can probably pick up the filter housing and fittings for less cash. You'd probably have to cut your own filter pads, but floss, loose carbon, etc., should be easy enough. A ball valve on the inlet and outlet would prevent draining the tank and lines. Place a bucket under the filter and disconnect the body from the head, drop the body in the bucket and take it somewhere to clean it out.

You could run a smaller filter as a pre-filter. T fitting, then ball valve to the input. Ball valve, the T fitting from output. Run a pipe with a ball valve in the middle between the T fittings. This would be the pre-filter bypass. Ball valves on the filter open and bypass closed for normal operation. Open the bypass, then shut both pre-filter valves to isolate the pre-filter for service.

The Clear Ocean stuff may be easier since there are already set up for aquariums and there are filter pads and media already available. Although, the string filters would work fine as pre-filters, and the filter cartridges don't appear much different from the standard water filter equipment.


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## rezco (Jan 25, 2012)

I have had very good experience with magnum H.OT. filters. They have been around for a while. I used a Fluval canister years ago. Worked fine but changing the media was a real pain.

The Magnum in contrast is **way** better. Its is plastic but the top lid is heavy duty with a generous and long-lasting o-ring seal and stainless spring clamp. I bought it used and the lid comes of and back on very reliably - no leaks. You would think being plastic it would get distorted and start to leak but again its very simple to use.

The filter media options range from charcoal, mechanical sponge to micron pleated cartridge. There is also space to fill it with your choice of bio media. 

There is no shortage of parts available. Even my local Petco carries some of the cartridges. The micron cartridge for example runs about $10. In addition to media types you can attach all kinds of hoses and strainers. There is even a vaccuming attachment.

When I upgrade to a larger tank I am seriously considering going with 3-4 HOTs for a 125 gallon setup. This way if one fails atleast the other two will provide redundant backup. I can also run slightly different media in each to get the best results.


The other very nice feature is the ability to purge trapped air in the filter. There is a built in venturi inside the filter return tube near the impeller that sucks all air from the top of the canister out into the discharge stream. The filter needs to only be 2/3 full of water. After the initial gurgling noises it settles down into nice quite operation. 

I think a new one runs about $50 online. After having seen the cheap crap that has flooded this hobby its nice to see a really good piece of technology at a reasonable cost.


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

After a year now with the Fluval FX5, I can't honestly say I can find anything wrong with it. 600 gph honest throughput, ample basket size, excellent valves, and just general worthiness, it would have to be my recommendation for a non-custom setup. Is it perfect for every situation? No, of course not. It does have a lot going for it in the price range. You can find them on e-bay for about $230 shipped.

I spent quite a few years with reef tanks and sumps and 5' high protein skimmers, etc. I think the Little Giants are good quality pumps for the money. If you want top shelf, Iwaki Japan is the way to go.

My .02


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

Beer said:


> What is a veg filter?


Just another way of saying an aquaponics type of system.


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## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

I hear the "plastic junk" thing, but I have no idea why someone would choose not to go the SunSun route. $86 shipped to your door. 375 gph (that is legit). And when all my Eheims failed, and the flow got drastically reduced, the SunSun never did. No leaks, instant prime, works as good as the day I bought it. It is such a minimal investment. I can't see myself buying any other kind of canister filter any time soon. May still do a wet/dry though...


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Which SunSun for a 20 Long shrimp tank?


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## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> Which SunSun for a 20 Long shrimp tank?


Probably the HW-403b. They also make a 303b which is probably plenty of flow as well (especially for a shrimp tank) and cheaper. It has been my experience with shrimp tanks in general though that adding things like pre-filters and sponges to your intake can significantly lessen the flow so if it were me I would probably still go 403b. That said, I am using a 403b on my new 90p which is also a shrimp-only tank. Tough choice between the two.

EDIT: Just look for the flow rates. The model below the 403b is rated for about 265gph I believe. Can't find it by name right now though. Also, don't search SunSun. That is the asian version.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Which SunSun for a 20 Long shrimp tank?



Probably this one... http://www.truaqua.com/aquatop-canister-filter-cf-300.html


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## bigignatz (Mar 5, 2012)

One thing to consider is that just like the bicycle industry, there are very few factories that make essentially the same thing, but with the contractee's name and a few relatively minor design characteristics to serve their branding process. It might be that the SunSuns are made with the same pumps (can't be any worse) than Eheims or anybody else's...and the rest is just a plastic box and trays distributing water over the growing media of your choice. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if all this stuff wasn't made by the same Chinese companies and the price point is what matters when choosing a canister filter. All of this is just a hunch, of course, until I take a few more of these apart to compare them.


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## mak1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Agreed about cheap plastic junk.Tried a couple different brands of canister's,all broke,failed,etc.Been using Nu-clear modular filters and Poisedon Titanium external pumps for three years now with zero issues.Nu-clear filter has drain on bottom that you can use to drain out water and refill=easy water change.
Plumbing is diy.Tanks are 65 gal.,pumps are rated at ~900gph and 1200gph so had to use ball valves to adjust flow rate.Pumps are very quiet but they are water cooled and DO add about 4-5 degrees to water temp., but that also eliminated my heaters.Can go 4-6 months between filter cartridge swaps too!


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## Joe.1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Has anybody else tried cascades? I've had a 500 running for 4 years now. No problems. I grabbed a rena XP2 to try out. It doesn't match up to my cascade at all.


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## Beer (Feb 1, 2012)

Just because they are made in the same plant, even with the same molds, doesn't mean the quality is the same.
Different parts, lower quality plastics.


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## Aquaticfan (Oct 30, 2011)

Beer said:


> Just because they are made in the same plant, even with the same molds, doesn't mean the quality is the same.
> Different parts, lower quality plastics.



While this is a Possibility.... Do you think for what they sell them for it cost them to far from what the cheaper stuff does...... I bet money its not much but pennies different. But the only folks that really know are the very people that make the parts. So unless they show us we will never know.


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## NyteBlade (Aug 19, 2006)

I wish there was a good alternative...sunsun is much cheaper (honestly all canister filters are sort of overpriced). I've tried Eheims, Fluvals, and Marinelands...I like Fluvals the best, but I went with the Eheim classics because the hose sizes matched up with my inline heaters and lily pipes. But I hate the *@!#@!( double-taps that go on the hose.

A well-built, reasonably priced canister filter with maybe even an included heater would be amazing...but the filters with heaters jack up the price of the filters a few hundred, which I don't understand...


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Good discussion. Here is where my thoughts land. 

If it doesn't leak, if it does move water, and if it doesn't make much noise...I really don't care about the rest. :hihi:

Seems to me the mechanical filtration is mostly decided by the filtration media inside, not the design or manufacturer of the canister. I cut my own media to suit my needs. Chemical and biological filtration are also decided by the media. If I'm using the same ceramic rings and filter floss, in two different brand pumps, how much difference could their be? I think we can all agree that sumps are probably the best filters available. Most sumps are totally home made. Again, if it moves water and doesn't leak...what's the big deal?

That said, where the cheap canisters show their value, or lack thereof, is with the accessories. 

My Aquatop's spray bar was pretty flimsy and poorly though out. For me, not an issue because I knew I'd be fabricating my own. The media blowby issue with the Aquatops are largely due to the filtration media they ship...if you cut your own the issue is resolved. So, is the price difference worth the extra time to do a little tinkering? For me, yes. For some others...perhaps not. Value is a highly debatable thing. :biggrin:


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## humblepie (Jan 31, 2012)

Daximus said:


> Good discussion. Here is where my thoughts land.
> 
> If it doesn't leak, if it does move water, and if it doesn't make much noise...I really don't care about the rest. :hihi:
> 
> ...


Sort of. The spraybar for the Aquatop is certainly flimsy, but still useable. But for the most part these statements are fairly correct for the average fish keeper. If it does the job of filtration to keep the water with the correct parameters without leaking or busting then it's a quality filter. Most of them do that. A few though are prone to problems that cause leaks or stopped pumps. Those are the ones to avoid. After that, price is the major deciding factor for me. 

If a properly installed Aquatop, which may require gentler handling to install, performs as well as the most expensive canister with the same or near the same reliability at a fraction of the cost then I know where my money is going. Which is exactly where it went. I've picked up the Aquatop CF500UV and an Odyssea CFS500 because they fit those requirements I laid out. Inexpensive, performs, and reliable from many reviews I've read of people using both for years. They may not be as "sturdy" when handling, so one just has to be more careful when handling them to prevent damage. 

That being said, I also now own two Eheims 2217s as well. I haven't messed with them yet, since the tank I bought them with I am having to do some work on first, but I look forward to directly comparing the canisters I've purchased with the Eheims I picked up.


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