# 3 Gallon Low Tech ADA Aquasoil II Experimental Tank ***Mar 09 Update



## Homer_Simpson

When I set up an experimental tank, I usually do not like to post pictures until the 3-6 month period as I find that the true test of how well a tank does comes around the 3-6 months. IME, tanks usually start out doing really well, then one of two things happens. They continue to do well indefinitely or succumb to serious algae issues after 3-6 months. I am not talking about diatom green dust, or even green spot algae which is typical of most planted tanks. I am talking about Blue Green Algae, Black Beard/Brush Algae, hair or thread algae. I decided to post photos of this experimental tank prior to the 6 month mark. This tank of my latest experiment and has been up for only 3 weeks. It is a 3 gallon tank with 14 watt 6500 K compact fluorescent bulb with ADA Aquasoil II as a substrate, mini elite submersible filter, daily dosing of Seachem Excel for Carbon. Plants include: cardamine lyrata(floating), dwarf aquatic lily,java fern, anubias nana and coffelia, a rotala indica, Ludwiga repans, pygme chain sword, and Cryptocorne Wendtii(red). The green mesh in the background is my attempt at a java moss wall. I don't know how well it will do as I generally do not have any success with java moss(it turns brown and dies on me after a while; this is my 4th attempt at growing it). I have not put any fish in yet. I am waiting for the plants to get fully established and water parameters to test normal. The last thing I want to do is add fish/shrimp early on, only to find that I have to tear the tank down as it is turning into a dog's breakfast, I am not dosing ferts given the high nutrient value of the sediment and doing 50% weekly water changes due to ammonia leaching. My goal when water parameters test stable is to either put in a Zebra Nerite Snail/Amano Shrimp and or White cloud minnows. For anyone familiar with ADA Aquasoil, it is considered the cadillic of substrates and used by many hobbyists. Tom Barr who is well known in the Planted Aquarium world has set up numerous tanks with a variety of substrates and this is his substrate of choice. The only thing is that most have used Aquasoil have used it with pressurized or DIY c02 and high light. Few have experimented with it on a low tech, low light set up, so I decided to. I want to thank Tom Barr(AKA: PlantBrain) who was kind enough to give me suggestions on how best to proceed with this setup. I take no credit for the approach. Tom Barr further discusses his approach here:
http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/4266-hybrid-methods-fusing-dry-start-excel-non-co2.html

I was initially going to try a combination of Tom Barr's emersed method combined with this method or the hybrid method that he describes in the link above. I decided against it as there were too many unknowns with how well the plants that I was going to use would grow emersed and survive the transition back to submersed. 

We will see how well, she does. So far ludwiga and rotala have shown explosive growth, the pygme chain sword has sprouted 3 runners, and much to my surprise the cryptocorne Wendtii has not undergone a melt. Here are some photos. No further updates until April 09. Comments and feedback welcome, but please keep in mind that this tank is not an exercise or experiment in aquascaping but an experiment in aquarium plant growth. 

























*Go to last page for Mar 09 update and pictures.*


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## oldpunk78

i'm about to start a 5.5 in nearly the same fashion. i picked up some aqua soil of the sns just for this. i'm glad you tried this before me, can't wait to see how it turns out! keep us in the loop, please.

edit - i think homer has the biggest signature on here. it's like half the screen.


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## Homer_Simpson

oldpunk78 said:


> i'm about to start a 5.5 in nearly the same fashion. i picked up some aqua soil of the sns just for this. i'm glad you tried this before me, can't wait to see how it turns out! keep us in the loop, please.
> 
> edit - i think homer has the biggest signature on here. it's like half the screen.


Will definitely update, but I want to give the tank enough time to play itself out. I am not too worried if I end up tearing it down. This is just an experiment and all experiments entail risk, but that is part of learning. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say."

Okay as far as the signature goes, I will modify or edit if bothers people or mods 
Edit: I trimmed it down.


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## dp2012

hi yea i want to convert my 5.5 into a nice nano planted tank i was wonder how much of the aquasoil should i get, how much did u get??


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## dp2012

oldpunk78 said:


> i'm about to start a 5.5 in nearly the same fashion. i picked up some aqua soil of the sns just for this. i'm glad you tried this before me, can't wait to see how it turns out! keep us in the loop, please.
> 
> edit - i think homer has the biggest signature on here. it's like half the screen.


how much aqua soil did you get which bag the 3 or 9 liter?


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## Homer_Simpson

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a 9 litre bag should be enough for a 20 gallon tank, so 1/2 of that 4.5 litres should be good for a 10 gallon tank. If my math is right, 3 litres should be enough for a 5 gallon with some left over.


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## oldpunk78

i haven't actually got the 5.5 yet. but i do have a 3 liter bag and a 9 liter bag of aqua soil sitting around. i stuck the 3 liter one into my eclipse 6 (witch i think has a smaller foot print than the 5.5) and it looked like i would need to add about another 1/3 of a 3 liter bag to get the depth i was looking for...

so in short, you could get away with one 3 liter bag of aqua soil in the 5.5, but i think you would actually want more.

edit - buy one, and if it's not enough, get more. (i just picked up what homer put down, lol.)


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## Homer_Simpson

No pictures yet as no major change in growth to report. I had to trim the rotala, ludwiga and dwarf aquatic lily leaves which were growing to the top and blocking off too much light to the plants below. However, diatom reared its ugly head and the tank is now in the midst of a diatom algae bloom. I was waivering on how best to deal with this. My options were: (1) throw in a otocat to feed off the diatom algae, or a amano shrimp, or nerite snail, or (2) just wait it out and continue with regular water changes with the hope the diatom algae will disappear on its own. I went with option (1) and added an otocat yesterday. He has already cleared the tank of 35% of the diatom algae in one day. Hope he makes it. He appeared pretty stressed with the acclimitization and transition judging from how much his color faded.


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## ColeMan

I've always wondered about how AS would do in a super-low-tech setup, so I'm interested to see the results. No doubt it's do-able, but I wonder if there are any unanticipated issues that may arise...I guess we'll find out. Where did this idea come from? Curiosity I guess?

I might add that (for most people) it is counter-intuitive to think that a low-tech setup would actually be more difficult to maintain than it's high-tech counterpart, seeing as there are less variables to manipulate, you sort of have to just rely on the system itself. This will, no doubt, be eye opening for those who think that the less equipment, etc. the easier to maintain....It's not often that one sees high-tech tanks that are doing really, really poorly. I mean sure, we all have our occasional algae outbreak or whatever, but I've seen tons of low-tech setups that are just a mess, a disaster. (Not anyone here, of course).


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## Homer_Simpson

ColeMan said:


> I've always wondered about how AS would do in a super-low-tech setup, so I'm interested to see the results. No doubt it's do-able, but I wonder if there are any unanticipated issues that may arise...I guess we'll find out. Where did this idea come from? Curiosity I guess?
> 
> I might add that (for most people) it is counter-intuitive to think that a low-tech setup would actually be more difficult to maintain than it's high-tech counterpart, seeing as there are less variables to manipulate, you sort of have to just rely on the system itself. This will, no doubt, be eye opening for those who think that the less equipment, etc. the easier to maintain....It's not often that one sees high-tech tanks that are doing really, really poorly. I mean sure, we all have our occasional algae outbreak or whatever, but I've seen tons of low-tech setups that are just a mess, a disaster. (Not anyone here, of course).


Thanks coleman for taking a serious interest. My discussions with Tom Barr actually sparked my interest in this. I know many folks use ADA AS with high tech benefits to get maximum benefit. I wanted to see what would happen with a low tech setup using ADA AS II. It is a given that ADA AS II is a highly nutrient dense substrate and in as part of a low tech setup, the plants in theory should utilitize nutrients even more slowly. I wanted to see how long(years) the tank would hold up without water column fertilization before nutrient exhaustion set in. The other issue is that role of light and nutrient imbalance with respect to algae. Would any leaching of nutrients from the substrate be enough to give rise to any algae with only 13 watts fluorescent bulb 6500K lighting. Given that I am doing weekly water changes, I don't think so, but we will see. 

Other than a diatom algae bloom, which the otocat I put in has pretty much cleared up. I have noticed a little bit of green spot algae, which kind of surprised me given the 13 watts
is not something that I would consider high light and green spot algae is often an artifact of high light setups.

I will post updated pictures at the end of April 09. The java moss wall is taking forever to fill in. After 4 weeks, I did experience some melting of crypt leaves. The ludwiga repens, rotala indica, and pygme chain sword(has given off tons of runners) has grown faster than I have ever seen in any other tank. The otocat appears to be doing well. When I first got him, he appeared so stressed, his color really faded. Now, his color has returned and he appears fairly active. I also have some cherry shrimp in the tank, hoping I don't end up with a population explosion. They also appear to be doing well.


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## amano101

i just wanted to say i think this is a cool experiment for low tech/ low maintenence tanks. i'm looking forward to april. :thumbsup:


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## Homer_Simpson

amano101 said:


> i just wanted to say i think this is a cool experiment for low tech/ low maintenence tanks. i'm looking forward to april. :thumbsup:


Thanks, so far so good. I just wish the java moss wall would fill in faster.


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## Trallen44

I am interested to see how this works out. Neat idea.


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## NightSky

Subscribed. Thanks for all your experimental work Homer.  I'm very interested in the results.


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## Coral Keeper

Any update pictures?


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## Homer_Simpson

Tank is turning into a real jungle and needs trim badly. the pygme chain sword did not turn out to be so pyme. It totally overwhelmed the tank with runners all over the place. Rotala indica has shot to the top of the tank. Cardamine lyrata has increased in density. The java moss wall is disappointing as the java moss has not really filled in. The cherry shrimp and otocat are still alive and active. I am not sure if the shrimp are reproducing. There is some brown algae that has developed on the mid left corner of the tank wall. At first I thought it was diatom algae, but since the Otocat is largely ignoring it and is not feeding on it, at this point it is somewhat of a mystery to me. It looks more like brown dust algae if there is such a thing. I haven't tried to scrub it off or anything as I want to see what it does(ie., whether it spreads or stays in that one corner or goes away with time). Pictures due end of April 2009. I will post pictures at that time as I really want to see what this "brown dust" algae does.


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## oldpunk78

ah man, we gotta wait til the end of april?

c'mon homer, throw us a bone...


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## Homer_Simpson

oldpunk78 said:


> ah man, we gotta wait til the end of april?
> 
> c'mon homer, throw us a bone...


O.k., you got your wish, only because the tank needs a trim badly, with rotala indica and ludwiga repens breaking the surface and beginning to grow immersed.

The Good: Plant growth has literally exploded. Pygme chain sword is totally choking out the tank as are the rotala indica and ludwiga repens. The otocat turned out to be the healthiest from any otocat that I have ever owned. I usually put a piece of microwaved zucchini in the tank for him(as you can see from the feeding clip) and like to remove within 24 hours to keep it from going soft and disintegrating in the water. That is difficult to do as he feeds off it 24/7 and usually consumes all of it within 24 hours. Lol, not even my Albino Bristlenose pleceo and Siamese Algae Eater combined with are 5 times the size of this guy can accomplish that same feat in my 40 gallon. There is always some zucchini left over in the 40 gallon when I remove the feeding clip. The cherry shrimp has given delivery to a bunch of babies and the tank is full of more cherry shrimp than I can count. They also seem to be enjoying feeding off the zucchini with the otocat. No cherry shrimp deaths to report and they seem to be healthy, active, and thriving so I take that to be a good sign.

The Bad: Stupid moss wall has bearly filled in if at all. And interestingly the java moss tied to rocks is not doing as well, but riccia tied to the rocks actually grew and did better than the java moss.

Below are some tank pictures.

























O.k. so with the good and the bad, you had to know that there would have to be "the ugly." Well here it is.

The Ugly: There was a breakout of diatom algae approximately 4 weeks after the tank set up, which the otocat pretty much consumed. However, there were blotches of brown diatom looking algae that the otocat seemed to ignore. On closer inspection, this algae is similar to green dust algae but it is brown and caked onto the areas of the tank wall like hard water stains as per pictures below. Unlike diatom algae it does not easily wipe off. I have never seen anything like this in any tank that I have ever set up.

















So what now, well the experiment will continue I will have to trim as the growth is totally out of the hand. With the algae, there are a couple of options. Leave things as they are and hope it goes away on its own, or as per picture below use this algae fighter since the tank is plastic using a credit card to scrape off the algae is not an option. 










The good thing about the algae is that it is isolated on only a few sections of the tank and has not spread since it formed, which leads me to believe that it must be an artifact of a change that the tank underwent and once scraped off it will not rematerialize.


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## NightSky

It's interesting to see how much growth you are getting with your low tech setups. I wish my plants were growing as fast. I wonder how much of it has to do with the plants you are choosing. Maybe your next experiment can be with Flourite Black Sand.


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## Homer_Simpson

NightSky said:


> *It's interesting to see how much growth you are getting with your low tech setups*. I wish my plants were growing as fast. I wonder how much of it has to do with the plants you are choosing. Maybe your next experiment can be with Flourite Black Sand.


Thanks. I think a lot of this may have to do with starting with healthy plants. It is like the healthier plants have more energy reserves, and it is almost like they start using up their reserve energy stores rapidly right off the bat, then after a certain time, usually 3-6 months, growth begins to slow down to a crawl. The only tank where I have seen the opposite happen is my high tech 40 gallon planted with pressurized c02, where it has been up for a couple of years and I find myself trimming at least weekly. In that tank, growth has never slowed down. The thing that has me scratching my head is the algae. Is there such a thing as "brown dust algae?" Regardless, today is the day for a big trim. I hope I do not disrupt the balance too much. I may add some water lettuce to offset the negative effects of a huge trim. I will scrape off that algae with the algae magnet and see if it reappears.

You may be right the choice of plants may have a lot to do with the growth also. And good suggestion about fluorite black sand. I have some on standby for testing. However, I am mineralizing some soil right now and I want to take the mineralized soil for a test drive next. I have heard lots of good things about mineralized topsoil that it has really peaked my curiosity. This will be with a cap of pool filter sand that on its own the locals in my city are having exceptional plant growth with.


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## NightSky

That's an interesting observation. I never thought about the plants using up their reserves as they get settled in the tank.


PS
I'm watching you on TV right now.


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## Homer_Simpson

NightSky said:


> That's an interesting observation. I never thought about the plants using up their reserves as they get settled in the tank.


If it is true, then most would say that nutrient exhaustion would be responsible for the slow down. That is why I chose a nutrient dense sediment like ADA Aquasoil II. I wanted to see if this would compensate for the plants running out of the small amount of nutrients they would need to continue to grow well in a low tech over a very....long period of time(with no water column dosing). In theory, it should work.



NightSky said:


> PS
> I'm watching you on TV right now.


Really? :eek5:


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## NightSky

Homer_Simpson said:


> If it is true, then most would say that nutrient exhaustion would be responsible for the slow down. That is why I chose a nutrient dense sediment like ADA Aquasoil II. I wanted to see if this would compensate for the plants running out of the small amount of nutrients they would need to continue to grow well in a low tech over a very....long period of time(with no water column dosing). In theory, it should work.
> 
> 
> Really? :eek5:


lol, I love that dance you do when you skip church. :hihi: :tongue:

If this helps any, I've had plants in my inert sand substrate for a few years and they have stayed alive (they hang on for dear life but they're alive). I do gravel vac and complete WCs in that tank too so the only form of nutrients is from the fish waste (not even food feeds these plants as I feed freeze dried blood worms almost exclusively and every last one gets eaten).


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## oldpunk78

that's a lot of growth! are you putting anything into the water column? that might explain the lack of growth on the moss wall. does aquasoil leach nutrients into the water or does it stay down in the substrate?


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## Homer_Simpson

oldpunk78 said:


> that's a lot of growth! are you putting anything into the water column? that might explain the lack of growth on the moss wall. does aquasoil leach nutrients into the water or does it stay down in the substrate?


No water column dosing at all. Java moss is one of those plants that just does not do well for me. It has failed to grow in just about every tank where I have tried growing it. It will not grow in my 40 gallon high tech planted tank where I dose Estimative Index. It did not grow in my 15 gallon experimental c02 tank with DIY c02, Aquasoil II, and water column dosing. It does poorly in my 5 gallon low tech hex tank. The funny thing is that riccia grows like a weed in all those tanks, and it is usually more difficult to grow than java moss. 

Aquasoil, from what I understand, does leach trace amounts of nutrients into the water, but most of the nutrients remain in the substrate.


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## amano101

that growth is definitely impressive. does java moss hate your water, or are you using RO? the only thing i can think of is there might be some trace mineral/chemical in your water that java moss hates for some reason, but that's all a complete guess.


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## Homer_Simpson

amano101 said:


> that growth is definitely impressive. does java moss hate your water, or are you using RO? the only thing i can think of is there might be some trace mineral/chemical in your water that java moss hates for some reason, but that's all a complete guess.


Thanks. I am using dechlorinated tap water. At first I thought that it must be something in the tap water as well(extremely high phosphate levels), but then this was ruled out when my coworker showed me his tanks where java moss was growing like a weed. We both have tanks with betta fish in them at work, no ferts, same tap water, same food for the bettas. In his tank, the java moss took off and keeps growing, although it is full of diatom algae. In my tank the sample of java moss taken from his tank and placed in thet tank died, disintegrated and began melting in the water,, so I had to remove it to prevent water quailty issues. The only thing that I can think of is possible too high water temperature. My betta bowl at work is close to the fan at the back of my desktop computer and my co-worker's is nowhere near.

In this 3 gallon it is not dieing but not growing much either. It could be a light issue too as the java moss at the left tip of the moss wall at the top seems to have grown quite a bit. We will see what happens after I trim and the allows more light throughout the tank.


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## Homer_Simpson

FWIW, here is a picture of some of the trimmed plants. As you can see, they are all healthy and algae free. The sunset hygro is not displaying that characteristic pink leaf coloration, but other than that it grew like a weed in the tank,


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## Trallen44

Those look great!!


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## Homer_Simpson

Trallen44 said:


> Those look great!!


Thanks. I was comparing the trimmed Ludwiga Repens to the Ludwig Repens growing in my 40 gallon high tech tank(water column dosing of ferts), with all the bells, toys, and whistles. Quite honestly and as near as I can see, there is literally no difference between the both in terms of leave shape, size, and coloration. Although too early to say for sure, Ludwiga Repens looks like a good stem plant for low tech tanks with no c02.


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## Trallen44

Homer_Simpson said:


> Thanks. I was comparing the trimmed Ludwiga Repens to the Ludwig Repens growing in my 40 gallon high tech tank(water column dosing of ferts), with all the bells, toys, and whistles. Quite honestly and as near as I can see, there is literally no difference between the both in terms of leave shape, size, and coloration. Although too early to say for sure, Ludwiga Repens looks like a good stem plant for low tech tanks with no c02.


I had it growing good in my 55 at one point, then things went south. But I am going to try again with the new rescape. I hope they do as good as they are in this tank. I think with the few things I am changing they should.


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## oldpunk78

any updates to share with us yet?


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## Homer_Simpson

oldpunk78 said:


> any updates to share with us yet?


I like to provide updates every 3 months which I believe gives the best indication of progress good or bad, so next pictorial update will be around June 14 2009.

I can give a non-pictorial update. 

The cardamine lyrata pretty much died and went south. Like vultures, the cherry shrimp feasted on what little there was left. Also, much to my surprise one of the anubias rhizomes literally melted. The rhizome was not buried and I have never seen anything like it before. The leaves were all lush green so it was not dieing or anything. The pygme chain sword, rotala indica and ludwiga repens are growing slowly but still doing well. With the way the pygme chain sword and dwarf sag(which I added later) grew, I know those are two plants I would never use in a 3 gallon nano again. The cherry shrimp continue to reproduce like crazy. Every day I notice new shrimplets. The otocat is healthy and alive and continues to do well. The tank remains 100% algae free.


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## oldpunk78

Homer_Simpson said:


> next pictorial update will be around June 14 2009.



well... how's it going?


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## Trallen44

oldpunk78 said:


> well... how's it going?


X2 Please


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## bradac56

Homer_Simpson said:


> Also, much to my surprise one of the anubias rhizomes literally melted. The rhizome was not buried and I have never seen anything like it before. The leaves were all lush green so it was not dieing or anything.



I've seen that happen in one of my tanks and in another persons tank before it is strange. I chalked it up to not getting enough of some micro nutrient since I couldn't come up with a real answer.

Glad to know it's not just me.

- Brad


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## Homer_Simpson

oldpunk78 said:


> well... how's it going?


My apologies to all. I have not had much of a chance to log on or post as I was in the midst of a reflooring job in my condo and am still recovering from the major fall out. It is funny how you don't really realize how much junk you have collected over the years until you have to clear space/declutter. I am in the process of decluttering my whole home as it is pretty cluttered right now. It has been a real challenge leaving little time for much else. I packed the stupid camera and cannot find it. It will be some time before I can locate it and start posting updated pictures. 

FWIW, the tank has literally exploded with growth and it is all.....Dwarf Sag. It isn't pretty though. It looks like a lawn that is overgrown with grass and in need of some serious mowing. On the positive side the sole otocat and cherry shrimp still appear to be healthy and reproducing like crazy. I learned that even in a small tank like a 3 gallon, it is pretty easy to get rapid plant growth. More important though, I learned that with a 3 gallon you really have to be careful with the plants you select. I would never again choose dwarf sag for a 3 gallon. The plant is like a parasite. Heck, even in my 40 gallon it is totally taking over the tank and squeezing out the other plants. 

On that note, I have 2 emersed setups going which are doing extremely well. A 5 gallon with dwarf hairgrass, bacopa, and cryptocorne lutea and another 3 gallon with HC, and rotala indica. Both tanks were going to get pygme anubias once the rock and branch placement was put in. Sadly though with everything going on, I have yet to flood these tanks and they are long over due for major flooding and submersion. It is interesting to see how well the rotala is doing emersed. It looks totally different from its submersed form. What is really interesting to note is how well the dwarf hairgrass emersed has rooted into the aquasoil. You can literally see an increasing amount of white roots that are becoming more and more visible as time goes on. The root density is to the point that when you look at the substrate, the white roots are more visible underneath the substrate than the substrate itself. Once I flood the 3 gallon, I plan to transfer the shrimp(whichever I can catch) and the otocat from the previous 3 gallon into this one. The tank will also get a pressurized c02 paintball hookup, continued lighting with the Hampton Bay 26 watt clone lamp, and daily dosing of excel, Estimative Index Dosing at 1/4 of the recommended.


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## Hilde

Homer_Simpson said:


> I believe a 9 litre bag should be enough for a 20 gallon tank.


Is that 20 gallon high or long?
How deep is the substrate? 
How high is the water?


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