# substrate?



## amanda huggenkiss (Mar 3, 2004)

Substrate's just a fancy word for gravel or sand or whatever else you're using as the bottom material.

Many people will start off with Fluorite or Eco-Complete or a similar type of nutrient-rich base, either on its own or layered underneath gravel (cheaper that way). From what I understand (and someone else correct me if I'm wrong here), kitty litter is used not as a fertilizer, but because it absorbs ammonia. Although, if you have a well-planted tank, it shouldn't be an issue because the plants will also absorb ammonia.

It sounds like you've been poking around here somewhat. Good for you! There's a wealth of information to be found here. And if something doesn't make sense, don't be shy about asking. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I wish I'd found this site _before_ I started planting in my aquarium. Would've saved a _lot_ of headaches!


----------



## edo (May 12, 2004)

uhh. im just wondering if its necessary to have this substrate stuff. does it really help that much?


----------



## amanda huggenkiss (Mar 3, 2004)

By "substrate stuff" I'm assuming you mean like Fluorite or Eco-Complete? (Because you do need substrate in the form or sand or gravel, otherwise what'll you put your plants in?)

No, the other additives aren't necessary. They're certainly helpful in terms of giving your plants a good nutrient base, but not necessary. A lot of people just use plain old aquarium gravel with perfectly good results.


----------



## edo (May 12, 2004)

cool. sounds good. i think ill be one of those old fashioned people cuz im lazy. haha. thanx for the help.


----------



## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

Edo,
Well if you are lazy, then Eco complete is probably a better option. If you use plain gravel, you'll have to invest in some root tabs to keep the plain gravel full of nutrients.
With Eco, you don't need root tabs unless you keep some heavy root feeders, like a sword plant.


----------



## bullosa (May 24, 2004)

Plants like Echinodorus and Cryptocoryne family take a lot of their nutrients from substrate. Good and well planned substrate laying goes a long way. Some of the substrate may appear costly initially but the reward of healthy growing tank makes them worthwhile.

Eco-Complete and Fluorite seems to be the popular choice in the US. I use a combination river sand (pre washed and enriched with JBL's Florapur) as base. Topping them is ADA's Aquasoil which gives very good result. Friends who used ADA's complete substrate system have better results then mine but the cost of ADA's products may be inhibitive to some.

All the very best.


----------



## corigan (Feb 22, 2004)

bullosa said:


> Plants like Echinodorus and Cryptocoryne family take a lot of their nutrients from substrate. Good and well planned substrate laying goes a long way. Some of the substrate may appear costly initially but the reward of healthy growing tank makes them worthwhile.


 Unfortuantely ADA products aren't readily available in N. America, I would love to try some of them out if some of the N. American suppliers could import more of them (hint hint). 

I fully agree with Bullosa's statement above. It is so worth it in the long run to spend the extra bucks and the extra time to setup your tank for the most optimal performance. How I look at it, why cripple yourself from the get-go just because it takes extra time. Good substrate is one of the key princapls to great plant growth. If you reasoning isn't monetary (since you just said you were lazy), I would definately buy a decent substrate. As pointed out by the extremely knowledgable Malkore, eco-complete would be a great choice if you are lazy. You can be so lazy that you can just dump it in with the liquid amazon and not even rinse it.  On a side note, I've decided that eco complete will probably be my next substrate on my 4th aquarium since I am pretty lazy as well.

I was one who thought I could get away with crummy substrate and then had sub par results. I was just mixing a little laterite in with some gravel and wasn't having much success. I then added quite a bit of flourite to my substrate and the results have been outstanding. 

Matt


----------



## amanda huggenkiss (Mar 3, 2004)

malkore said:


> If you use plain gravel, you'll have to invest in some root tabs to keep the plain gravel full of nutrients.


Erm, yeah, I should've mentioned that. It was late... I was sleepy... :redface:

Good thing the rest of you are here to pick up my slack!


----------



## edo (May 12, 2004)

how much does eco complete cost, and where can i find it. and are there any other things ill need to do to make it work well? it seems there are countless things to mix and all that.


----------



## edo (May 12, 2004)

i forgot to add, what are all these other things like flourite, and blah blah blah, i cant even remember the other, but they seem to run along the lines of substrate, what do they do?


----------



## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

Since you are so lazy, by your won admission, to even look online to see who carries Eco-Complete, I volenteer to make it easy for you. Send me the money you were going to spend and I will set up a tank, and put a web cam on it. All you'll have to do is sit back and look at it. Please don't forget the monthly stipend for on going maintainence and bandwidth. 

-*-*-*-*
gnatster


----------



## edo (May 12, 2004)

haha. seriously tho. so i should just look around online. oh check it out. im an algae grower now, instead of a newbie. thats pretty cool.


----------



## Rosko_22 (May 19, 2004)

It's never a bad idea to go to your LFS and ask questions about substrate, lighting, heating, filters, etc. Most LFSs I go to carry fluorite, eco-complete, and a million others. Just tell them what you want to do with your tank, what you want to put in it, and ask what they recommend.
Or, if you don't want to go out, try checking out some of the big chain's websites for different products, prices...


----------



## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

Whoever it was that said "There's no such thing as a stupid question" apparently never read edo's posts!


----------



## bullosa (May 24, 2004)

Edo,

Eco-Complete is a product by Carib-Sea. You should find them on the web. All the best on your planted tank.


----------



## edo (May 12, 2004)

Thanx for the help everyone.



eds said:


> Whoever it was that said "There's no such thing as a stupid question" apparently never read edo's posts!


im only an algae grower!


----------



## Rosko_22 (May 19, 2004)

OMG, that's gold.
LMAO!!!:icon_lol:


----------



## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

Plants need minerals to grow, just like human beings do. We get our minerals from our food. Plants get it from the substrate and the water. Most substrate materials are made of clay or some type of soil. Clay provides iron and perhaps other minerals and is also able to absorb other minerals and nutrients from the water.

Besides minerals, plants also need what is called Macro nutrients. These are nutrients that plants use in much larger amounts than trace minerals. Macros include nitrogen, phosphate, potassium, calcium, and magnesium. Carbon dioxide can also be considered a macro nutrient. Nitrogen, in the form of ammonium and nitrate, is provided to the plants by the fish and animals in your aquarium. Potassium, calcium, and magnesium may be in your water. Phosphate may also be in your water and in fish poop depending on what you feed your fish.

All of these things may be provided either by the substrate or the water. There is a lot more to this but I do not feel like writing a book right now, and I have a feeling I lost you after the first paragraph any way!  :icon_lol:


----------



## BigBlue00 (May 11, 2004)

The one thing I found about this hobby (and especially with planted tanks) is that you can't afford to be lazy.

Best thing to do is do alot of research and reading _*before*_ you start buying stuff and filling up your tank. Like others have said, proper planning will save you lots of time and frustration in the long run. It will also help you enjoy your tank more when it looks/does what you had envisioned for it when you started.

Good luck, and do your research!


----------



## edo (May 12, 2004)

i understand that. thats why im asking questions. i bought my tank recently and built a little light canopy. ill post pics onces its up. it'll be bare at first tho. i have just a little experience with my brother's tanks, and he helps me a bit too. but this the the first planted tank in the household and i wanted it right. 

as to roberts post. i understand. so most of the micro and macro nutrients will be supplied by the substrate, the water, and my fish?


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

HEY!

No picking on Edo! :wink:  This guy is one of my favorite "Algae Growers"!

I would say a portin of the macro, micro, and trace elements will be supplied the substrate, the water, and your fish. The rest are going to be supplied by you when you fertilize your aquarium.

Take some time and read some of the threads about fertilization. The Algae Forum is a good place to start! Try and get a grasp on the basic ideas on what we normally dose, how much, to what ratios, and why. You will quickly get an idea about what is going on.

Oh yeah! Ask lots of questions!

Mike


----------

