# 21 Feb update to the saga...I'm about ready to quit trying shrimp...



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

LS6 Tommy said:


> I don't get it. My parameters all fall in line With everybody's advice and I still keep losing shrimp in the 10 gallon tank. I just got 6 nice Blues from a local LFS and they're all gone in a week. Out of the 2 broods of Cherries I had, there are only about 10-15 juvies left. I have 1 Bee and 2 "Black Cherries" left out of 4 of each. The Bee is finally saddled and now I don't even have a mate for her. I can grow snails reall well...:icon_roll :angryfire
> 
> Tommy


Please tell us what your official water parameters are... ph, temp, etc.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

list the params...


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## tundragirl (Feb 15, 2006)

also list tap parameters?
how ofter you do water changes?
Tank mates?
Planted I assume?
Foods?
Do you use meds? salt? co2?
Anything else about your tank you can tell us. How soon after adding them are they dieing? How are you acclimating them?


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

1. High % of shrimp from LSF that are wild caught like the blues will die.
2. Ammonia spike because overfeeding is not detectable. You might be feeding too much.
3. List your parameters, ph, kh, gh, nitrates, nitrites, temperature, water change frequency.
4. Is it tap water, well, water, RO water?
5. Do you use a water softener
6. how long has your tank been setup?
7. what brand of food do you use?


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## sunmiztres (Mar 20, 2006)

Has the tank you are using ever have any kind of medicines in it that contains copper? Most medicine for Ick contains copper. If so this might be the problem if all your water parameters are in check. copper will stay in the tank or on decorations. Just a thought


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

I feel ya, Tommy. I've given up on shrimp for now....Too many other things to worry about anyway. Personally, I think its my tap water, so I may give them a try again in RO water. Very Frustrating for me.

Hang in There......roud:


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## kunerd (Jul 19, 2005)

hey man I was the same way with shrimp in my 10g I couldn't keep them alive I've bought from multiple sources and still all dead. but now all mine are now berried and soon to have babies. wanna know what saved me. I cleaned out my 30g and used it for shrimp only. some told me the larger the tank the more room for error you have


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Perhaps you have copper piping that's leaching into the water.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Here's a breif run down on my situation:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp/45957-has-anybody-else-noticed.html#post408990

I'd would like to know what the issue is---but I don't think I am going to figure it out.



kunerd said:


> hey man I was the same way with shrimp in my 10g I couldn't keep them alive I've bought from multiple sources and still all dead. but now all mine are now berried and soon to have babies. wanna know what saved me. I cleaned out my 30g and used it for shrimp only. some told me the larger the tank the more room for error you have


It was a 29g tank with less than 100 RCS at any given time. They would saddle, berry and reproduce---but I still got die-offs. The tank was planted.




mrbelvedere said:


> Perhaps you have copper piping that's leaching into the water.


In my case I don't think that was it. The only copper plumbing that I have is with the Hot water heater. I got die-offs even when I only used cold water.

Maybe Tommy has copper plumbing though....Tommy?


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## sunmiztres (Mar 20, 2006)

Naja002 said:


> Here's a breif run down on my situation:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp/45957-has-anybody-else-noticed.html#post408990
> 
> ...


I don't know what it is but I used prime for 2 years with no problem. Then I cleaned my guppy tank ( 400+ guppies) I stuck the prime in their and within seconds they went haywire. I ended up having over 60 of my guppies die before I could remove them to another tank, yes all of them 
I talked to Seachem and they said to make sure you really shake the prime bottle before you use it and to only put a little in at a time as you are putting the water back in. They also said to have good water circulation when using prime. I never had a problem the way I always did it but this time I did. I would normally change 20 gallons in my 55 gallon and as I am putting the water back in I would dose 2 ML of the prime for the 20 gallons. Now I get the water going in and put about 1/4 ML of prime wait for 10 gallons to go in the tank and then dose another 1/4 ML and so on. I really think it had something to do with Prime's chemicals separating and if not shacked really good that you end up only getting one certain chemical and that is hurting the inhabitants of the tank. Just a thought


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Naja002 said:


> I feel ya, Tommy. I've given up on shrimp for now....Too many other things to worry about anyway. Personally, I think its my tap water, so I may give them a try again in RO water. Very Frustrating for me.Hang in There......roud:


My Tank's also a shrimp killer.
My plants never looked better,
my fish as happy as can be,
but shrimp never last more
than a few weeks with me :icon_sad: 
so I just gave up on them.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

spypet said:


> My Tank's also a shrimp killer.
> My plants never looked better,
> my fish as happy as can be,
> but shrimp never last more
> ...


Oh, NYC got some awful water. The piping has got to be over 100 years old.
I lived in Williamsburg, Brooklyn for a few years and once in a while I get brown water straight from the tap. I spent lots of money on bottled water, that's for sure.


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## tpl*co (Nov 4, 2006)

I can relate and feel your pain. I'm not having much luck with CRS, though (crossing fingers) cherries are doing fine. I even have some amano's in another tank fine, just the stinkin' CRS (and of course I like these the best!). :help: :angryfire 

Tina


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

Hi everyone! I just signed up here. I am an official assistant at the petfish.net Shrimp forum and have been breeding red cherry shrimp for over a year. 

Original poster, in addition to the info the other people requested, here is other stuff we need: 

1. Do you use Ammo Lock? It messes up your ammonia tests giving you false positives. 

2. Do you use Prime? May cause problems in some tanks. My personal theory: Prime combines with some unknown chemical to make a chemical toxic for shrimp. 2 other people on Petfish, both who use Prime, also have problems with shrimp. That's why I use the KISS method. 

3. Do you use test strips? These expire after 6 months of being opened. They may give you false readings after expiration. Use drop tests instead.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

bulrush said:


> Hi everyone! I just signed up here. I am an official assistant at the petfish.net Shrimp forum and have been breeding red cherry shrimp for over a year.
> 
> Original poster, in addition to the info the other people requested, here is other stuff we need:
> 
> ...


what's the KISS method.. And I use aquaSafe and things are fine.
You guys have to watch out for chloramines. Chlorine is easy to get rid of.

Google your local water chemistry. I'm lucky, the water here is decent & they use chlorine instead of chloramine.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

sunmiztres said:


> I talked to Seachem and they said to make sure you really shake the prime bottle before you use it and to only put a little in at a time as you are putting the water back in. They also said to have good water circulation when using prime. I never had a problem the way I always did it....


Shake Prime? Sheesh, that's not on the Bottle! I just checked a 500ml and 2L bottle and its nowhere on there. If we need to shake it--they need to let us know. Guess I'll put up a post on their forums.

I lost 2 cory cats a week or so ago after a water change--haven't seen them since. Of course this is a Tap water tank that hasn't been converted over yet.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

planted low tech
nitrates 5
nitrites 0
ammonia 0
ph 7.4
Gh 0 
Kh aroiund 6
Copper tests 0
I'm not overfeeding, I'm barely feeding. I can keep shrimp in my 58 forever until the Discus eat them, they just don't do well in the 10 gallon shrimp only tank.

The last 2 deaths were the day after a 35% H2O change. Prime is used, as is Stability to try to keep nitrates down as I aaoriginally had high nitrates and thought that was the problem. 

??????

Tommy
I quit!:icon_wink


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## Cydric (Dec 6, 2006)

Very odd you can't even keep RCS alive in them parameters.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Cydric said:


> Very odd you can't even keep RCS alive in them parameters.


Yer not kiddin'. I've never had so much trouble trying to keep any kind of livng thing, even "rare, hard to keep" fish. :icon_ques 

Tommy


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

LS6 Tommy said:


> planted low tech
> nitrates 5
> nitrites 0
> ammonia 0
> ...



Kinda strange you have Gh=0 with a 7.4ph and a Kh of 6. Are you sure that test kit is working? I would not recommend stability to lower nitrates. This might be a temporary fix to the problem. You can lower nitrates by adding plants. 

Also, i would not recommend so large water changes in a small tank like a 10G. 20% max water change is enough.

How long has this tank be setup?What temp do you keep it? is there a big difference in the temp of the water you are pouring in with the one in the tank?Do you fertilize this tank?

Thanks


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Naja002 said:


> Shake Prime? Sheesh, that's not on the Bottle! I just checked a 500ml and 2L bottle and its nowhere on there. If we need to shake it--they need to let us know. Guess I'll put up a post on their forums.


Yeah I know, but they post it all the time in their forums over at APC...

Prime doesn't kill shrimp guys, stupidity does more or less. I'm in the same boat I've killed some shrimp, but not too many.

My question is where did you get the tank? And if it wasn't brand new just for your shrimp, what was it used for before?

Good luck Tommy, Shrimp are a PITA for some people it seems...

-Andrew


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

milalic said:


> Kinda strange you have Gh=0 with a 7.4ph and a Kh of 6. Are you sure that test kit is working? I would not recommend stability to lower nitrates. This might be a temporary fix to the problem. You can lower nitrates by adding plants.
> 
> Also, i would not recommend so large water changes in a small tank like a 10G. 20% max water change is enough.
> 
> ...



I might have written the GH & Kh backwards. I'll do another workup 2nite. The Stability is added after H2O changes as a bio "booster" because my tap H2O runs about 10 for nitrates. I have plants, no dosing. The H2O change was 4 gallons. There was about a 3-4 * temp change, so that might have been it. I never get _that_ concerned with temp for my fish during changes. The tank has been used on and off for years, never had any meds that I can remember, and to the best of my knowledge is cycled.


Tommy


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Yeah I know, but they post it all the time in their forums over at APC...
> 
> -Andrew


Hi Andrew,

Just searched the Seachem forums at APC--Manually and via Search--and came up blank on any references to shaking Prime. I've never seen a reference anywhere--including the Seachem Forums on the Seachem site.

I put up a post on their site about this, so hopefully they will answer it in short order........

 Shake Prime....?

Thanx!


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Just wanted to post a clarification from Seachem on the Shaking of Prime:



> The bottle can be shaken before use and it is fine. The does not have to be shaken for effective use. The contents in Prime are in solution and will work fine in either case. Prime can also be added into the water without having to do it slowly.


The link to the thread is in the Post (#24) above.

HTH


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## sunmiztres (Mar 20, 2006)

Naja002 said:


> Just wanted to post a clarification from Seachem on the Shaking of Prime:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is not what I as told when I emailed them about adding prime to my tank and my guppies going haywire and dying. They emailed me back saying to make sure I shake the bottle and to only add the prime to the water slowly and to make sure there was plenty of aeration. I know if I called back I would get a 3rd answer but I was told this and actually threw that bottle away. I even asked them if the solution could go bad after a certain time and they said No but I wasn't taking any chances.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hi sunmiztres,

I'm not challenging You or what You said. I have come across other instances of seachem telephone support saying things different from what's online. Wish they would get it together in that respect. 

I am just trying to clarify Seachem's position on this issue, because nowhere on the bottles does it say to shake the stuff. I've had issues that could possibly be explained--if what they told You was accurate.

We're on the same team......roud:


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## sunmiztres (Mar 20, 2006)

Naja002 said:


> Hi sunmiztres,
> 
> I'm not challenging You or what You said. I have come across other instances of seachem telephone support saying things different from what's online. Wish they would get it together in that respect.
> 
> ...


NO problem  I didn't take it personally. I just wanted people to know that something with Prime can go wrong. They had no clue why it did that. They told me to shake and all that good stuff. They even said to send them a portion of it so they could test the prime but by that time ( 2 weeks later ) I had thrown the whole 2 liter ( lost allot of money on this one ) away. It was a new bottle to. That';s why I had asked them if prime can " go bad " and they said not that they know of.

Yes we are on the same team


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Naja002 said:


> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Just searched the Seachem forums at APC--Manually and via Search--and came up blank on any references to shaking Prime. I've never seen a reference anywhere--including the Seachem Forums on the Seachem site.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm not sure exactly when I read it there but I've read it a few times. Now what gets me confused is what is the iron dust looking stuff in there??

-Andrew


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't use chemicals there is no proven need for. Don't use water conditioners, you don't need them. Just use a chlorine and chloramine remover. 

And I'm not saying Prime kills shrimp. My theory is Prime may combine with a 2nd chemical, forming a 3rd compound which is bad for shrimp. My point: if you have shrimp dying for some unknown reason, and you use Prime, stop using Prime. 

Also, if there was any copper based med used in the tank before, any time in its history, that could be leaching copper into the water and killing shrimp. 

All my shrimp tanks are brand new and I've never used a copper based med, so I don't have problems. However I do feed them foods with copper sulfate, and have never had a problem. Copper sulfate must not be toxic to shrimp, it must be the elemental copper that is bad for them.


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## turbosaurus (Nov 19, 2005)

I know this is not helping, but I have a "tank of death" too. 

I kept cherries once, they breed like crazy, and in a couple months time I had hundreds. One day I overdosed my CSM+B and they all died within 2 days. That was a year ago. I have tried adding cherries again three times this spring and they all die within a couple days. I have done 52+ water changes since the OD that I think caused the original die off. I have ottos and BN plecos in the tank along with mollie fry and angel fry. All the fish are fine, there's never ammonia in the water, its a densely planted 20 long. All the cherries always die within a week or two. I will not try it again. 

Funniest part- I have two healthy happy bamboo shrimp hanging out in the tank no problem... I've stopped trying to figure it out.


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## cjyhc4 (Dec 18, 2006)

Another unhelpful comment, but I have had no issues whatsoever.

I have put some of my shrimp through hell and back with ODs (excel, planttabbs/nitrates/phosphates, etc), huge temp changes, 4+ hour car rides, adding water straight out of the tap, etc. In 3+ months, I have had only one shrimp death. That was the day I moved them 4+ hours (~250 miles) and added cold (low 60s) water straight from the tap (old copper pipes even).

Why haven't my shrimp died? *shrug*


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, I'm gonna keep tyring at least once more. I just got a fresh bunch of juvie Cherries From Evan that were definitely tank rasied, so I'm gonna keep at it for a little while more.roud: 

Tommy


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

Tommy,
Your tested parameters look great. Shrimp should do fine just based on those parameters. But there could be variables we haven't talked about. 

Does anyone ever spray anything in the fish room? Like air freshener, glass cleaner, dusting spray, insecticide, bug repellant, or anything else? Those mosquito blocks (BT bacteria) will also kill inverts like shrimp. 

My suggestion, just buy a brand new tank from the store. That way you can be sure it is virgin, with no chemicals put into it (hopefully). Sounds like there is some variable we just can't think of and you need a new tank.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Update 27 May 07-

There hasn't been any more "mass" deaths, the Black Cherries are doing fine, the newer Cherries from Evan seem to be doing fine, one of them was berried and she's not even done hatching out the eggs and she's saddled again. I have only seen 2 of the newborn, but they're SO small and light colored who knows how many there actually are. I got some $.30 Ghosts last night. I just noticed 2 of them are berried. One's eggs are REALLY green and you can see little eyes in them. I'm gonna assume they'll hatch any day now. So far, so good. I think I may have been doing too much. I've been just kinda letting things go, and keeping the H2O change down to 20%, not dosing anything, and using a 1/2 dose of Prime on WC's, as the label says to do if the chlorine/ammonia is low.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## conduct (Mar 25, 2005)

Tommy,
How often, Kind and much food are you currently feeding?


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2005)

You shouldn't keep too many variety of shrimp in one tank. One is bound to out compete the other. I think in the long run, your ghosts shrimp will out compete the cherry shrimps.
As for the water changes. Try adding your tap water into a buckett dose your dechlor there, and then add the water in to your tank. With that much water change (I mean %40) it's possible that the chlorine/chloramine may do some damage before your dechlore can take effect.
Also, some water municipality double dose your tab with chlorine once in a while to combat sudden grown in bacteria from the water resevoir. This can be the result of big rainstorm or spring time.
If possible, you may opt to dechlor with Chloram-X. Which you can dose at 1 1/2 without any harmful side effect. I usually do this when I think my tap water have a stronger chlorine smell than usual.
You may want to add a few leaves for oak leaves into your tank. Make sure there's no pesticides in it. Almond leaves is another good choice, but you might want to hold that option off untill you have cyrstal shrimps.
Your gH looks rather odd too.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Conduct- I rotate foods. I give a few pieces of the Hirabi (sp?- I'm at work & don't have the packages for reference) Crab Bites, 1/4 of a copper-free algae wafer, or a teeny bit of Tetra color bits.

Zebrapl3co-
I only have 5 Ghosts, and at least 10 Cherries. I always add the Prime to the bucket, not the tank. I may have remembered the Gh/Kh wrong. I haven't been keeping a strong tab on that. I've gotten lazy. I haven't had to keep tight tabs on the 58 for so long as it runs well by itself.

Tommy <9))>>{

EDIT- Hikari Crab Cuisine...


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

LS6 Tommy,
I read you are feeding algae tabs. While probably not harmful, that may not be the best thing for them. I did a survey of algae tabs at the pet store in Jan 2007. I could not find algae in the first 3 ingredients in ANY brand. That means they are mostly corn or wheat filler, sometimes fish meal. I have noticed my RCS do not care for corn or wheat. However last year I did find some algae flakes in bulk, which they did seem to like. Bulk flakes were repackaged by LFS.

Oops, another thing. I try to limit my population to 10 RCS per gallon max. That's 100 shrimp in a 10g tank. And I do weekly 50% water changes. I put the tap water in a bucket, add dechlor (for chlorine and chloramines) and then put it in the tank.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

bulrush said:


> LS6 Tommy,
> I read you are feeding algae tabs. While probably not harmful, that may not be the best thing for them. I did a survey of algae tabs at the pet store in Jan 2007. I could not find algae in the first 3 ingredients in ANY brand.
> Oops, another thing. I try to limit my population to 10 RCS per gallon max. That's 100 shrimp in a 10g tank. And I do weekly 50% water changes. I put the tap water in a bucket, add dechlor (for chlorine and chloramines) and then put it in the tank.


My food is Omega One Veggie Rounds. The ingredients are Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Cod, Whole Herring, Seafood mix (including Krill, Rockfish, Squid, Clams Salmon eggs and Octopus) Wheat flour, Lecithin, some vitamins,blah, blah blah. They seem to like them a lot.

As for my population, I currently have under 20 shrimp total in a 10 gallon.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Omega One makes some good stuff.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

I've about had it. I just got 4 more Cherries, 3 of them were berried. 1 week later and I can only find 1, and the eggs are gone. Can't find babies anywhere. 3 out of 4 of the cheapo Ghost shrimp died. 2 of them were berried, eggs disappeared. I don't know if they're freshwater breeders or not. My 2 black Cherries that I moved in from the 58 are fine. They're probably about a year old. Parameters are OK (I think):

Copper- 0
Ammonia- 0
Nitrate- 10-15
Nitrite- 0
Gh 1-2*
Kh-11*
Ph 7.6 Temp 76-78*

I'm really getting frustrated with this whole thing. it's like the tank is cursed.

Tommy


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## riva (Apr 12, 2007)

I've got all copper plumbing and have no problems with my shrimp.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, that last Female is DOA as of 09:00 today. On the flip side, when the lights came on I did see 1 baby. The lone Ghost & the 2 Black Cherries seem fine.:icon_ques Time for a 20% H2O change & if I can get up the courage, back to get more shrimp.

Tommy


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

The more I think about it, the more I believe it's time to try some Cherries from a different population. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the ones I've been getting so far, just that it seems wierd that the year old Black Cherries and most of the Ghosts I have gotten came from 2 different LFS' than where I got most of my Cherries, so maybe the particular strain of Cherries I've been getting may not tolerate my tank's conditions as well as some of the others.

I just got 3 Cherries from another trusted LFS. They cost a little more than Evan's, but hey, what can you do? Let's see how they do!

I also am trying a small experiment. Evan told me he doesn't use new H2O for the WC's in the shrimp tank. He said he takes it from one of the planted tanks. I just did a 30% WC and replaced it with H2O from the 58. In the AM before the CO2 comes on the 58 has the same baseline Ph as the shrimp tank & it's at the same temp. I checked the 58 for Nitrates & Ammonia first. The Nitrates are around 5 and the Ammonia is 0. Looks like I need to be a teeny bit more closely scheduled on the 58 WC's (I've skipped at least 2 this month) so maybe I can get that last 5 ppm of Nitrate down. I'll keep updating.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

Have you tested for phosphates by chance? That's one thing I don't see a test result for. 

I see you tested for copper (zero is good), and hardness. I don't know how hard my water is but I believe it is on the soft side and my shrimp all do fine. But again I do put cuttlebones in the tanks along with unfinished sea shells. 

Do you fertilize your tank with the RCS? I noticed when I add liquid fertilizer for aquariums, that if any RCS get caught in the undiluted fertilizer (it's yellow) I soon have a dead RCS in that tank later in the day. Perhaps the fertilizer is making them sick. 

Do you add iodine? If so, don't. It's poisonous to freshwater shrimp.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

bulrush said:


> Do you add iodine? If so, don't. It's poisonous to freshwater shrimp.


I would not be so sure about that. shrimp may simply get enough iodine from their diet to molt properly, that's why shrimp keepers don't use it. crabs and crayfish that tend to have larger thicker carapaces may need the extra iodine that is not already found in their food.


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

How new is the tank? I remember talking to a local pleco breeder that the tank he used from a certain local manufacturer kept killing his fish. He assumes it was the silicone used. He eventually soaked/rinsed/cleaned it with vinegar, which I guess, nuetralized whatever chemical was around and used it again. Fish were fine after that. Therefore, I'm thinking it might be the same as well.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Bulrush, spypet, crazie.eddie-

I have never tested this tank for phosphates, but I did test the 58 once and IIRC, it was low to very low. I will test it tonight. The tank is not dosed with anything. It's as low tech as you get. Fluorite, live plants, 15w fluorescent hood, heater & HOB Penguin filter.

Thery shrimp molt fine.

The tank is at least 20 years old, if not 30.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2005)

So how is the new shrimps doing?
The old water idea is interesting. Now that you mention it, I do remember that's how a start out and it worked very well. But that was a long long time ago and I've stop doing it since.
Anyway, out of the 6 shrimp tanks that I have, 1 off them is a death tank as well. It wasn't like that before. But every since I OD is with Excel, it's been a death tank every since. And that was almost a year ago.
There was a rumour going around that anubia nana petite was the culprit and I have to admit, I have one in this tank. You won't happen to have one in your tank as well would you?


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Zebrapl3co said:


> So how is the new shrimps doing?
> The old water idea is interesting. Now that you mention it, I do remember that's how a start out and it worked very well. But that was a long long time ago and I've stop doing it since.
> Anyway, out of the 6 shrimp tanks that I have, 1 off them is a death tank as well. It wasn't like that before. But every since I OD is with Excel, it's been a death tank every since. And that was almost a year ago.
> There was a rumour going around that anubia nana petite was the culprit and I have to admit, I have one in this tank. You won't happen to have one in your tank as well would you?


So far, so good. I can't get a real accurate head count because of the hiding skills, but out of about a dozen cherries I can usuallly find at least 6 or 7, and have not found any obvious corpses. I DO have an Anubia, definitely a Nana variety, but I don't know if it's petite or not as it was stolen from the 58 and I don' remember.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

bulrush said:


> Have you tested for phosphates by chance? That's one thing I don't see a test result for.


I tested today before doing the PM on the tanks. The Phosphate in the shrimp tank was 5.0 PPM before the WC!!  I don't know if this is really bad for the shrimp, but I know it shouldn't be that high. The Nitrate was 2.5, GH was 1.5, KH 11, Ammonia, Copper & Nitrite were 0. Ph was 7.4. After the 30% WC again using aged H2O from the 58, the Phosphate was down to .5 ppm, and the Nitrate was 0. All other parameters stayed the same. I don't know how high the Phosphate was last week before the WC. I wish I did. Any comments?

Tommy <9))>>{


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## edacsac (Nov 13, 2006)

milalic said:


> Also, i would not recommend so large water changes in a small tank like a 10G. 20% max water change is enough.


Just out of curiosity, why? 

I probably do a 65-70% water change every week on my 10 gallon, and it usually NEEDS it. 20% wouldn't make much of a difference unless I did it every couple of days and kept up like that.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

That's about it. No more new shrimp for me. It's been a couple of months more of nothing but frustration and disappointment. It seems all I am capable of doing with this tank is keep 2 female wild color Cherries. They've been in there since I set this deathtank up, no problems. Any other shrimp I try just die. I friggin' quit. Someone please explain to me how I can keep any kind of shrimp I want in the 58, but they eventually get eaten, but nothing lives in the 10 gallon with the same H2O, substrate, plants and temp?:angryfire 

Tommy <9))>>{


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

I know you've already tested for copper, but I've read on here many times that test kits aren't always accurate. And maybe the copper test kit IS accurate, but only tests for levels safe for a fish tank and can't read very low levels that would be toxic to shrimp? I've read here about tanks being "death tanks" for shrimp after having been treated with a copper parasite treatment. Since that tank is 20+ or so years old, could that be your problem here? If it is, it would make sense that the wild cherries live but the reds don't ~ red cherries are a genetic morph of the wild and, as with most if not all genetic morphs, the morph is more delicate than the original. Think about koi ~ wild carp are _incredibly_ tough, but koi can be so dang touchy and get sick at the drop of a hat.

If you're willing to give this another go, go get a brand new ten dollar 10g tank (that's what I have my cherries in ~ cheapo tank from Petsmart), brand new substrate (or maybe try none this time just for grins?), etc., and I'll send you some cherries to put in it to try again. I have gobs at the moment and would love to help you try this again. I also have lots of water sprite in the tank they're currently in and can send you some of that as well as a few cuttings of the other plants in there. Shrimp keeping is so interesting I'd hate for you to miss out!  So, wanna' give it another go? Think about it and let me know.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Thank you for the offer & support, Linda. I might just take you up on that. I'm beginning to think along the same lines of your theory about the weaker genetics combined with the trace meds. I can't say with absolute certainty that the tank hasn't been dosed somewhere in time. It's just hard to believe the tiny amounts of meds in the silicone of a tank that's been dry for so long could be detrimental.

I gotta see if the wife will let me get away with the new tank. I know it's only $10, but we're not exactly rolling in $$ right now. She's been telling me to give up on the shrimp tank and just keep it as a quarantine tank from now on. 

Right now I'm just gonna see how things go. 

Tommy <9))>>{


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

Yeah, I understand ~ it's only ten bucks for the tank, but then it's more for the heater or the substrate or the ... It all adds up, doesn't it? Especially if you're not lucky enough to have untreated well water like me and have to do RO. Ugh!

Just food for thought for you ~ my shrimp tank has zero equipment except for a 15w spiral flourescent in one of those metal cone lamps (other light comes from dappled sunlight through a window, so the 15w is mostly just for nighttime viewing). I don't have a heater, no air line, no CO2 or anything. I almost put a filter on it, but decided against that as well. I started reading about low tech shrimp tanks and decided to try them out to the limit ~ moved a few shrimp out of the main tank and into another so if my experiment fails I'll still have a population, and have let everything in there go ~ only topping off the water and feeding sparingly. It's been a month and so far it's great! Crystal clear water, Ammonia and Nitrite/ate have been consistently zero. I'm excited! I'll be keeping a close eye on the water quality, hoping it stays this way.  And I'll be pulling more shrimp out of there soon as well. Other than that, I'm going to try to leave it alone and see what happens.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

*Update 29 Jul*

Here we go again. Getting the *NEW* 10 gallon tank today. I got a $5.00 off aquarium products coupon from Petsmart, so it'll be a no-brainer at $4.99. At CampCreekTexas' advice, I'm gonna dump the plants, driftwood, substrate & start from scratch. 

CampCreekTexas, you have a PM.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## Halibass (Jan 29, 2007)

Just a thought, are you using offspring from your shrimp in the 58 to populate your new 10?

I've read a lot of things that I'm supposedly doing wrong with my shrimp tank so I guess I've been lucky (knocks on wood). I'm just throwing this out there so that you'll know what may or may not be the problem.

My tank is 8 gallons, Aquasoil substrate, planted, no CO2. I dose Excel and other Ferts using EI. I change 50% of the water every week, straight from the tap. I know I have copper piping because I saw the construction. I add about 1-2ml of Prime (not shaken nor stirred) per water change (pour into the bucket) - that's 2-4X over the necessary dose.

I started out with about 15 cherries about 3 months ago and now I have maybe 60 in there. I sold about 50 in the last month. I've also had 12 higher grade CRS shrimp in there for close to 2 months now and they are at breeding size right now, but no berried shrimps yet. I added another 10 CRS yesterday. There's also a lone Caridina gracilirostris in there, doing fine. I think I've lost between 3-5 shrimp total - the majority of which are suicides from jumping out of the rimless tank.

I don't know why you're having such difficulties even with all the hard work you're putting in, but hopefully, with the new tank, substrate, driftwood, etc, your persistence will pay off. 

Oh, I'm sure you already do this, but I have Aquarium only buckets. No cleaning solutions, no bleach, no anything in the buckets except for things that came out of a tank or are going into a tank. Maybe you should get a new bucket as well - HD has cheap orange ones. Good luck!


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Halibass said:


> Just a thought, are you using offspring from your shrimp in the 58 to populate your new 10?
> 
> Good luck!



There are no offspring in the 58 due to predation. That's why I set up the 10 gallon Shrimper in the first place.:icon_lol: 

Tommy <9))>>{


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## HammerJoe (Jul 15, 2005)

Theres probably more copper in the water than you might think.

I had the same problem (still do in a sense).
I started using one of those Brita pitchers (with the filter that eliminates copper) and then add enough baking soda and epsom salt to bring ph to 7.2-7.4 and that reduced my death rate tremendously.
I am considering a ro unit though, to be sure that I am getting the best water possible.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

HammerJoe said:


> Theres probably more copper in the water than you might think.[\QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Copper tests @ 0 with multiple kits. I'm going with the "bad tank" theory.
> ...


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, I just got back from a week long vacation. Now it's time to tear down the "death tank", set up the new tank and get it going. I'm going to use some Schultz' pond soil that I have had leftover from an old patio water garden project. Everyone tells me it's more or less the same as SMS. It's kinda light red, but it's what I've got. Gonna get some new plants on trade for some cuttings from the 58, a nice big piece of driftwood, new cartridge and biowheel for the filter and then here we go! 

Tommy <9))>>{


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

Good luck. I'm just curious why you're using Schultz' pond soil? I would figure that if I were running into such bad luck, I would not make big changes between the 58 and the new tank. Other than the size and lighting, I would more likely want to keep both tanks the same.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

crazie.eddie said:


> Good luck. I'm just curious why you're using Schultz' pond soil? I would figure that if I were running into such bad luck, I would not make big changes between the 58 and the new tank. Other than the size and lighting, I would more likely want to keep both tanks the same.


I'm using the Schultz just because I had it. If you have a reason not to use the Schultz, I'm not going to think twice about not using it, I'll get something new. I originally used the same Fluorite as in the 58. I don't think the substrate was a factor as I had the same exact problems even when the shrimp tank was bare bottomed.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, the new tanks is set up, it's empty except for the 2 wild form Cherries & they're happily exploring (the void :icon_lol: ) & eating algae pellets.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Added some nice driftwood last nite. Pictures to be added soon. I think I'll make this more of a journal this time.

Tommy <9))>>{


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2005)

Nice to hear that you're giving it another try. That's very nice of Linda(Camp...).
Just another update from my part. I gave my own death tank another try as well. And it seems more promissing this time. The funny thing is, I stop doing water changes to this tank, it's fully planted with snails any way. I stop dose it with ferts for about 4 months now. The shrimps seems to be doing fairly well. I can't explain it, but stopping my water changes seems to have worked beter than weekly water change!


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Yes, CampCreekTexas has been wonderful about this! Members like her are what makes PT.net such a great site!

Many, many thanks, Linda!! 

Day 2 and no deaths.  :icon_lol: 

Tommy <9))>>{


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

How are the shrimps going?


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

OK, Tommy, It's officially been a week since you added the drift wood, and 9 days since you put in the 2. 

Please give us some good news.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Sorry, everyone! I've been really busy with the upcoming schools opening day. Everyone seems OK so far. There was 1 death last week, but the shrimp that died was already "opaque" when he went in. If there's been any others, I haven't seen the corpses. :thumbsup: Pic's soon ( I hope).

Tommy <9))>>{


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

Can't wait to see those pics and hear more, Tommy, but only when you get a chance. Talking to you on the phone makes me think you're like me ~ LOADS on your plate right now. Better than being bored, eh? 

I did get your phone message that the RCS arrived safely. Glad to hear it! And thanks for the kind words ~ it's no problem, really. :biggrin: I'm just payin' it forward...

Got my fingers crossed that they're all still doing well and will be breeding for you soon. 





Zebrapl3co said:


> That's very nice of Linda(Camp...).


 Aw, shucks. *digs toe in dirt* 


> Just another update from my part. I gave my own death tank another try as well. And it seems more promissing this time.


 Still promising? Or better than promising I hope?



> The funny thing is, I stop doing water changes ... I can't explain it, but stopping my water changes seems to have worked beter than weekly water change!


 Isn't that wild?! That's what I found out as well when I stopped doing it. It's been, oh ... I don't know ... two months? Three months? since I've done a water change and my RCS seem even REDDER than before! Of course I also stopped feeding so darn much about the same time, so that probably contributed to it as well. And as I watch this tank more and cogitate/ruminate while I do, I might notice other things that may be causing this and/or had a hand in it. But for now, I'm just happy I've got a HEALTHY shrimp tank. roud:


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, still going strong. I now have at least three saddled cherries. I'm suprised they're saddled at their current size. I guess in the 10 gallon tank they don't get as big as they used to in the 58. They were usually at least 3/4" before they were saddled in the 58. In the 10 some of them are only 3/8" at best.

I know, I know, "where are the pictures?!"

I still haven't gotten any. Sorry!


Tommy <9))>>{


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

Great to hear! So it looks like it was a tank issue?

I know you probably were cringing reading the other thread how to kill RCS


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

crazie.eddie said:


> Great to hear! So it looks like it was a tank issue?


We'll find out for sure soon enough. It usually took about a month, month 1/2 before the mystery deaths started. It's looking good enough that I'm goonatake the risk and add a "shrimp" to my signature.

<";;;>< Tommy <9))>>{


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

Woohoo!!! I'm so glad to hear they're doing well, Tommy. It's been what, three weeks now since you added the cherries? Not long to go 'til we see for sure that yours are going to do fine. Can't wait.  



> I know you probably were cringing reading the other thread how to kill RCS


 Forgive me, Tommy.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

I counted at least 6 saddled today. I'm still suprised at how much smaller they stay in the 10 gallon compared to the 58. They never saddled until they were at least twice the size in the 58. We're going on pretty much a month now, and no known losses. Thanks again, Linda!! Pic's maybe this weekend.

<";;;>< Tommy <9))>>{


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

Awesomeawesomeawesomeawesomeawesome! I'm so glad to hear that, Tommy. :biggrin: I hope they're _still_ doing great this week and that soon you see babies. roud:


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

The biggest sadlled female is now berried! T-minus 60 something days & counting 'till Shrimp Puppies!

Tommy


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

Good to hear!


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

*WOOHOO!!!!! * That's an *EXCELLENT* sign that things will be fine with them! Puppiespuppiespuppiespuppies...


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, I saw a youngun today! I have a little pad of floating HC I am going to dice up & plant in the shrimper, and I saw a teeny little shrimp swim up into it. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes peeled. Sorry, still no pics. I'm waiting on replacement battery packs for the camera. I may even trade it in. I dunno.

Tommy


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

Congrats! At least your headache is gone.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Although I've had babies before, I figure the babies coupled with the fact that after this much time gone by without losing everything in the tank is it's definitely a positive sign. I counted 3 babies last nite. i also see some Hydra & Copepods. I guess the tank's clean, but I'm overfeeding a bit. Gotta get the Hydra out tionight. Normally Hydra don't bother me, but i don't trust them with the baby shrimp.

Tommy


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Since this thread is devoted to people who hate to kill shrimp,
I'm proud to profess that I've finally figured out my deadly problem.
It was due to predation, not my tap water, copper or maintenance.
I now have a few dozen RCS all doing well because they are in a
Species Only Tank, that's the key. Instead of putting the shrimp
where my plants are, I simply bring my plants to the shrimp tank
for them to do an algae "car wash". Once the males are over 2cm
I may introduce a few to my community tanks, but I will keep the
bulk of my females and fry in this simple low maintenance 20g tank.

if only I had figured it out before killing those $30 ebaY CRS :icon_roll


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

spypet said:


> Instead of putting the shrimp
> where my plants are, I simply bring my plants to the shrimp tank
> for them to do an algae "car wash".



Not sure I understand that, spypet. Are You just swapping plants in and out of the shrimp tank from another planted tank?







LS6 Tommy said:


> i also see some Hydra & Copepods. I guess the tank's clean, but I'm overfeeding a bit. Gotta get the Hydra out tionight. Normally Hydra don't bother me, but i don't trust them with the baby shrimp.
> 
> Tommy


I rarely experience hydra--unless there's shrimp involved.....Anybody know why?


TIA


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Naja002 said:


> Are You just swapping plants in and out of the shrimp tank from another planted tank?


Yup, what can I say... I like being
an unconventional tank keeper roud:

they completely cleaned my marimo balls,
now they are working on my Fissidens.
any plant that's too delicate to bleach dip,
I'll let the shrimp have a crack at first,
before I do my own H2O2 treatment.

*An expectant father...* damn, how I wish I had a manual focus P&S  
I already caught a virgin female and male doing the nasty dance,
but my lousy P&S camera takes too long to auto focus :icon_conf


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Naja002 said:


> I rarely experience hydra--unless there's shrimp involved.....Anybody know why?
> 
> 
> TIA


Are your shrimp in a species only tank? If so, the Hydra a re probably getting by because there's no fish to eat them.

Tommy


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Naja002 said:


> I rarely experience hydra--unless there's shrimp involved.....Anybody know why?
> TIA


WELL, having snakes that eat fish in your tanks.... I don't think there is much for them to eat, and not much light so no green hydra allowed. And you can treat with copper.... and and and...

--------
Spy, If you try to find I believe it was Shanu's 10g invert tank he did the same thing. If you add a dozen or so amano shrimp as well it should help with other algae as well.

Congrats on all the shrimp breeding, now if I could ever find those damn baby Black Diamonds.... 

-Andrew


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> WELL, having snakes that eat fish in your tanks.... I don't think there is much for them to eat, and not much light so no green hydra allowed. And you can treat with copper.... and and and...
> 
> --------
> 
> -Andrew


Sorry, but you are assuming a lot and then mixing apples and oranges...So, your response doesn't apply....:thumbsup:


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

LS6 Tommy said:


> Are your shrimp in a species only tank? If so, the Hydra a re probably getting by because there's no fish to eat them.
> 
> Tommy


When I've kept shrimp, they were shrimp only, or with swordtails. I believe I got the most hydra when they were shrimp only. 3 different setups, maybe 4.

Just wondering if there's some connection.......?


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Naja002 said:


> When I've kept shrimp, they were shrimp only, or with swordtails. I believe I got the most hydra when they were shrimp only. 3 different setups, maybe 4.
> 
> Just wondering if there's some connection.......?


I would assume its the ammount of food in the tank for the hydra.

-Andrew


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> I would assume its the ammount of food in the tank for the hydra.
> 
> -Andrew


That's been my guess from what I was told in the past, but it doesn't seem to matter if I power feed fish with no shrimp in the tank........no hydra. But with shrimp even if feeding was minimal--hydra.

Doesn't make much sense to me other than some connection with the shrimp. Maybe they were finding enough to eat in the tank without added food, but when I added food--they ate it....or at it anyway.

:thumbsup:


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Maybe there is copper in the tank?

-Andrew


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

Yeehaw! I'm so glad to hear this, Tommy! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Congrats. :biggrin: 




Naja002 said:


> I rarely experience hydra--unless there's shrimp involved.....Anybody know why?


Just a thought, Naja ~ I've heard that hydra like very clean water, so maybe the lareger bioload from the fish and/or the extra food is the culprit? Or maybe the shrimp somehow "clean" the hydra and their surroundings and that helps them survive and thrive? Dunno.


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## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

Naja,
The logical answer would be that you don't have animals in your aquarium that eat invertebrates. If nothing is eating the shrimp, there is a good chance nothing will eat the hydra!


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## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

I had hydra in one of my shrimp tanks and after putting in guppy fry for a few weeks they were gone, perhaps the guppies ate their food or them. Not sure but it worked.

Bill


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Dwarfpufferfish said:


> Naja,
> The logical answer would be that you don't have animals in your aquarium that eat invertebrates. If nothing is eating the shrimp, there is a good chance nothing will eat the hydra!





southerndesert said:


> I had hydra in one of my shrimp tanks and after putting in guppy fry for a few weeks they were gone, perhaps the guppies ate their food or them. Not sure but it worked.
> 
> Bill



I had a nano with nothing, except plants and snails--no hydra. Yes, I did feed the snails. Fish or no fish--I've never had hydra--without shrimp.


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## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

What type of snails?


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

I believe only red ramshorns, but possibly some pond snails. Doubt it on the pond snails, but maybe.....


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## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

The Euro Ramshorn snail has been said to eat hydra! There are a few species of shrimp known as ramshorn, but hey...


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, even though I haven't seen any dead shrimp, it seems like the population may be shrinking. I counted 44 when I introduced them to the tank and although I know they hide REALLY well, the most I count at a feeding frenzy is about 30. Maybe I'm just being gunshy. Anyway, I would have thought after almost 3 months I should see a definite increase due to breeding. I have had 3 berried shrimp that I think hatched out because I saw 3 babies, but haven't seen them since and no new babies . Anyone have any input as to how long their shrimp tanks ran before the population started showing definite growth?

Tommy


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Dwarfpufferfish said:


> The Euro Ramshorn snail has been said to eat hydra! There are a few species of shrimp known as ramshorn, but hey...


Shrimp with ramshorns, pond snails and the ones from Petshrimp.com=hydra.

Any other combination=no hydra.

That's why I'm wondering if there's some connection to the shrimp and hydra.

Its not a big deal for me. I haven't been keeping shrimp for a long time now, and don't expect to be keeping them any time soon. Just curious.....:thumbsup:


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## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

There is no coralation with shrimp and hydra. They can, and DO exisit in aquariums with out shrimp. Again, one big reason you see hydra in shrimp tanks is they often do not have predators in them.


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

LS6 Tommy said:


> ". . . Anyone have any input as to how long their shrimp tanks ran before the population started showing definite growth?"


Seems like it was a couple months at least. 'Course ALL my shrimp mysteriously disappeared about 2-3 months ago after having a nice, healthy, ongoing population for a couple years. One tank I know was my bad; badly neglected tank that I ripped most of the plants out leaving them nowhere to hide from a couple yo-yo loaches (which also went belly up from, I assume, of no place left to hide. But apparently not before eating what shrimp were left :icon_roll .) The other one is a super low-tech nano and I have no idea what the problem was there. Just suddenly I wasn't seeing any shrimp. The only thing I could come up with was a deteriorating population due to inbreeding. I do know I was starting to see some odd, very dark color morphs in there.

To paraphrase a friend of mine: "Keeping <shrimp> is not for the faint of heart!"


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, 3 mommas are HEAVILY berried as of last night. I have seen a t least 5 babies recently, but they look small enough to be new. I don't see any "bigger" ones from the last hatchings. I know they hide REALLY well, but it makes me wonder what the viability rate is of the young. What kind of survival rate should I expect? the earlier broods were sparce, only about 5-10 eggs on each berried female. Now the berried ones have much fuller clusters.

Tommy


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

Congrats! At least this story has a happy ending for sure.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, I'm still occasionally seeing teeny babies and some really small "adolescents", but the population seems steady. It sure seems like I have less than I started with, but it's not getting any worse. I just got 2 unknown shrimp on a trade for some cuttings. To the best of my knowledge they're Purple Zebras. I'm not sure but I think they're not freshwater breeders. Oh well.

Happy New Year!



Tommy


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Did a head count at feeding time last night. It sure looks like I'm slowly losing population again. I'm down to about 30 shrimp from the initial 44 CampCreekTexas was kind enough to send me. I have saddled & berried shrimp & I definitely have some adolescents, but I'm just not getting the prolific breeding every else seems to enjoy. Am I just expecting too much too soon? The current residents have bee n in the tank since late August.

Tommy


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

Maybe the rest have hidden themselves well? Also, maybe some of the youngens maybe in the filter?


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## thelobster (Jun 30, 2007)

just a question do you use Co2??

for 6 months i couldnt figure out why my shrimp kept dying.

well i guess i was pumping way to much Co2 into the 20gal planted tank and slowly killing them all.

now i have 1 bubble every 5 secs adn my shrimp are doing insanely well i see babies everywhere.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Nope, no CO2, no dosing. Basic low-tech. None in the filter.

Tommy


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, even though I see berried & saddled females and everyone seems happy & healthy, my population is still slowly shrinking. At the last feeding I had a head count of around 20. :frown: I'm about ready to let this tank become a planted fish tank for some of the really neat nano-fish species.

Tommy


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## OhNo123 (Jan 8, 2008)

I have that some problem too Tommy. I see all the juvis, but they never seem to get adult size..


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, I haven't completely given up. I got a dozen new cherries to bring in some genetic diversity on a barter yesterday & 5 mid grade Crystal Reds at a local LFS.

Tommy


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Well, maybe things are on the upswing, finally. I counted at least 6 berried RCS last night & the CRS have settled in nicely, I hope the CRS breed too!

Tommy


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## OhNo123 (Jan 8, 2008)

Congrats! I just gave up on my shrimp.  I transfered at least 10 adults into a breeder box as well as 10+ juvis. Still more juvis in the tank, but I don't really care. Its now a dwarf crayfish breeding tank!


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

I saw one lone baby last night at feeding time. Judging by size it looked to be around 3 weeks old. I'm up to 7 berried Cherries now. Hopefully they'll have a good survival rate & my population will finally start undergoing an explosion.

Tommy


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Good Luck!


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Update Mar 29 09-
Well, I'm down to 2 or 3 Bees & maybe 5 Cherries. No one's been berried since the last post. Yes, i'm almost positive there are females & males. 

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna let it go, harvest as many of the MTS as I can & put some CPD's in to see if they'll breed.

I really like these stupid shrimpy dudes, too.

Tommy


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## suebe333 (Feb 17, 2009)

hmmmmm, I am having trouble too


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## nazspeed (Dec 19, 2008)

first whats in the tank besides the shrimp? Second make sure you dont put anything that cotains copper in the tank, third overdose in tetra aquasafe example ( instead of 7 drops per gallon i use 9 -10 drops per gallon) this removes all harmful metals and stops shrimp loss.

becarefull with fertilizers also they may cotain harmfull stuff for shrimp dose a 1/4 of what you normally do for plants and keep co2 levels low


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

nazspeed said:


> first whats in the tank besides the shrimp? Second make sure you dont put anything that cotains copper in the tank, third overdose in tetra aquasafe example ( instead of 7 drops per gallon i use 9 -10 drops per gallon) this removes all harmful metals and stops shrimp loss.
> 
> becarefull with fertilizers also they may cotain harmfull stuff for shrimp dose a 1/4 of what you normally do for plants and keep co2 levels low


Nothing's in the tank except plants & MTS. I don't dose anything, no treatments other than Prime for H2O changes. I've been through all the other suggestions. I've tested for everything under the sun. It's just plain ol' mystery.

Tommy


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## Honorable24 (Nov 16, 2008)

I dose fertilizer with copper and have food with copper and my shrimp don't die. I only feed my shrimp every month. I only have ten cherries right now, and countless babies. My tank has cold water, high circulation, low-mediumish CO2. I think you should make the conditons how the moss likes it also becuase I think they live together symbioticaly. (if you have moss) The shrimp keeps the moss clean which keeps it growing in return they get cover. Not sure on this though. Kinda just thought of it on top of my head. I read some other posts, that said to put plants that would be in a pond(most floating) cause they suck up nitrates pretty well. I haven't changed my water in like a month and a half.


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## DBL TAP (Apr 27, 2008)

Do you know of anyone locally that is breeding shrimp? Like someone stated earlier, LFS shrimp aren't always the hardiest of species. I would also suggest to look at the swap and shop for shrimp.

I know you're frustration all too well. I spent a lot of time and money trying to keep the bugs alive -- with little success. And like you, I was going to give up. The funny thing is when I stopped worrying (by 'worrying' I mean excessive, testing, partial water changes, fancy foods, etc...) my shrimp started breeding like rabbits. 

Good luck and hang in there.


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## dthb4438 (Nov 12, 2007)

I agree with the Prime. When I started using it, everything started going downhill. They were dying left and right. Stopped using it and everything is coming back tenfold. Copper is the third ingredient.


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