# College Student's 56k 12/2



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

A Walstad/Dirt tank is cheap, and is great for plants. I have one 20-long that is all Aquasoil and I'm about to set up a 20-long Walstad as a comparison, doing everything in the new tank as cheaply as simply as possible.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Thank you for the info. I will do some research into that. Seeing as its the weekend I will have some time to actually do something.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I know goldfish and WCMs are cold water fish, but are danios and otos ok with the temps that that goldfish thrive at? I thought they were tropical?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Betta Maniac said:


> I know goldfish and WCMs are cold water fish, but are danios and otos ok with the temps that that goldfish thrive at? I thought they were tropical?


The tank is a room temp tank thats around 70F right now due to the cold weather outside. The danios have held up since the tank cycled back in December. I have only had 1 die and it had scoliosis. The body was very deformed. I introduced the oto's about 2 weeks ago and seem to be doing very well. They are veryyy fat, constantly feeding on my sagetteria and amazon sword. Wish they would clean up the micro sword. My LFS told me that they were very hardy fish and as long as I didnt neglect the tank they would do well.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Tank seems seriously overstocked and underfiltered (and that's with only the three goldfish). If your LFS is telling you your stocking is fine, they're misleading you.


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## v369 (Nov 14, 2010)

planted is hard with goldfish ...they dig a lot best of luck


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## RobertsKitty (Feb 24, 2011)

Betta Maniac said:


> Tank seems seriously overstocked and underfiltered (and that's with only the three goldfish). If your LFS is telling you your stocking is fine, they're misleading you.


Agreed. You need at least a 40 for that many goldfish even without the others. Filtration should be a MINIMUM of double tank size (so for a 40 gallon you want 80 gallons worth of filtration). On my 55 I have 125 gallons worth of filtration and love it. 

As for temperature, I keep my goldfish at 74 (F) at all times and they thrive at it. What most people don't seem to understand is they CAN live in coldwater, it doesn't mean they thrive in it. Most goldfish breeders and enthusiasts today agree that while long body goldfish do better in cooler water, any fancy goldfish with their poor squished digestive track need water temps in the 70(F) to 75(F) for proper digestion and better immunity.

So bump up that filtration and tank size if you can. Otherwise you might consider returning/rehoming one of the new fish. roud:


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Thank you for your concern. My LFS advised me that fancy goldfish require 10gal of space per fish thus why I only have 3 of them. They then told me that if I were to do a minimum of 1 water change per week (5gal) and monitored everything then I would be able to add the minnows and danios. So far I am having no issues other than my original redcap whose tail gets filled with blood everyother day then goes away. 

V369

Thank you, yes I know they are crazy diggers. When I didnt have much light I had put anacharis in the tank and it didnt last through the weekend before they were all dug up. But it seems they are leaving the rest of the plants alone so far. 

Update: I am currently changing out the gravel and substrate to what betta recomended will put up pictures when all set back up


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well I just spent the better half of the last 3 hours completely changing out the aquarium. I am currently doing the Walstad Dirt method. Went and picked up some generic potting soil and some filter media sand white. The tank is still filtering out the miscellaneous particles of the sand that picked up when adding water despite being rinsed directly before putting into the tank. 

Betta

I found that I can fit my extra filter into my hood and have added it to the tank. So there are now 2 filters going. Aquaclear 50 and an older Whisper model that is much bigger than the aquaclear filter.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

jhwku said:


> My LFS advised me that fancy goldfish require 10gal of space per fish thus why I only have 3 of them.


Your LFS thinks that a fish that can grow upwards of 12" is fine in a 10gal tank? :icon_eek: IMO this size tank would only suffice for ONE fancy goldie, and that's without tankmates and with big weekly water changes. Looks fine for now, but I hope you're planning on an upgrade to at least a 55gal tank in the near future...

For plant suggestions with goldies, I recommend you read through this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...935-46-bowfront-goldfish-grazing-project.html


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

jhwku said:


> I found that I can fit my extra filter into my hood and have added it to the tank. So there are now 2 filters going. Aquaclear 50 and an older Whisper model that is much bigger than the aquaclear filter.


That should help out some, but I'm not sure your LFS is to be trusted when it comes to stocking advice.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well after a long day I finally finished changing out the gravel for more appealing white sand. I used the Walstad dirt method that Betta Maniac recommended. It has finally cleared out 99% and looks amazing here are some pictures of what it currently looks like.

FTS



This looks so much better than the blue gravel. I can actually see the true colors of everything in my tank without the blue. 

The filter corner with the capruonii and sagettaria 



The empty side with the remainders of the Amazon sword and microsword 

Does anyone have any ideas of what hardy plants I can put here. I am thinking about another type of sword.

The addition of the second filter


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Great start!! Can't wait to see it when plants grown out. Especially like the capruonii. I have never seen that. Where did you get it. Sagittaria subulata would go with microsword. If the goldfish dig them up you will have to go with ferns. 

I will be watching this tread. For I too have a 29 G low tech non Co2 tank. I am amazed you got the stand and tank for $40.

I think you are going to need some root tabs, seachem, until the plants adjust. Can get them here with no shipping cost.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Thank you. I'm sorry for misspelling it, the proper spelling is Capuronii its part of the Apongeton family. My LFS in Lawrence had them, they are bulbs. 
Thank you for the suggestions. I just happened to go into the store to pick up some of the root tabs and they just received a new shipment of plants today  Their selection for the past month has been terrible. They did not have any of the sagittaria but they did receive a lot of different swords. I picked up 2 different types of swords. Red Rubin and Uruguayensis. One supposedly grows lower while the other grows to be a large sword plant. 

Here is a picture, the sword corner with my large red cap 


Looking around this site I see soo many amazing tanks and cannot wait till I move back home to get my gf's dad's old tank.(supposedly its bigger than a 55gal but I dont know exacts)


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

I would also like to know if anyone has any tips to keeping my sand clean?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I wasn't able to keep pool filter sand (PFS) clean. Thus topped the PFS with river sand, which I got from a landscaper. One told me that he kept the white sand clean vacuuming it 3xs a week. Some vacuum then top with more sand. Adding by putting some in a sock.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

I will try using my old gravel vac from when I had a 5 gal. The tank has gotten cloudy, not sure if its algae or the tank recycling or just my glass isnt spotless on the inside.

The makeshift power head that I was using from an old intank filter finally broke. The impeller broke and does not push any water thus not dispersing the CO2. I purchased a petco powerhead and am going to the lfs tomorrow to get a sponge to cut down on the flow and better disperse the co2.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well it looks like I have a case of Green Algae Water taking over my tank. I put some of the excel in to help clear it out. 

I just started to give my tank a siesta so that I can appreciate it while I am home and am wondering if it takes the fish a while to adjust to this? My goldfish have been really lazy today just laying down on the sand. They never did that with gravel.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> Well it looks like I have a case of Green Algae Water taking over my tank. I put some of the excel in to help clear it out.


As long as the plants aren't affected it is okay. Tank is probably going through a cycle. For you didn't put any of the old substrate in there. Check your nitrites. 

Got a pic?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well I got the green water to go away last night... I added some crystal clear drops and I dont think my water has ever been that clear. This morning the water has a greenish tint again UGH... I did a water change and vacuumed the sand a little. I tried adding more with a sock and it did a good job. I just need to figure out how to remove more sand when I vacuum or my tank will be nothing but sand eventually. 

Another thread I have is about my old goldfish who seems to be sick so I removed the CO2 to see if that makes a difference. 

I found a few little stalks of DHG laying around my waste bucket that were still moist and green. I put them into the middle of my tank where I dont have any microsword planted. Now its time to see who will cover the tank first. (the microsword has a huge head start) 


Here are some pictures:
Lots of growth with the apongeton not as much with the sagittaria lately 









Swords
I have been getting a lot of growth so far out of these










FTS


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I think you should dose with Seachem nitrate and Seachem Excel. What are you dosing with?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

I currently have the Seachem flourish combo solution. I use it once a week after water changes. There is another thread talking about the light fixture that I have over my tank saying it is not powerful enough, but I am sure getting a lot of green water.

I'm also not sure but my sagittaria dont look to be doing very well. On 2 of the plants the leaves are folding over and losing the meat of the leaf, becoming clear.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I bought the 29gal with a stand, filters and gravel for $40. I have since upgraded the HOB filter to a Aquaclear 50 and purchased a Coralife 36w fixture.
> 
> The Specs on my tank are 29gal. 56watts of lighting.


Now uncertain as to what light you have. 

I have a 29 G too. I have the dual Coralife and a T8 Life-glo over it. Aprox 54 watts. The Coralife doesn't have a good reflector. Using a house gutter improved the reflection of light to the bottom.



jhwku said:


> I'm also not sure but my sagittaria dont look to be doing very well. On 2 of the plants the leaves are folding over and losing the meat of the leaf, becoming clear.


That is a potassium deficiency. Dose KNO3. Seachem nitrogen supplies it.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

I have this sitting over my tank Coralife Aqualight Dual Linear Strip T5 Aquarium Lighting Fixture, 2X18 Watt, 30 inch
http://www.marineandreef.com/Aqualight_T5_Aquarium_Lighting_Coralife_p/RES58021.htm

I use the stock bulbs the 10k and the actinic. I also have the the regular hood attached with a fluorescent 20W 6500K. So the set up is like a normal tank hood and instead of having the front flap I put the coralife there. So I am getting close to 1.91watts per gallon on this tank.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I use the stock bulbs the 10k and the actinic. I also have the the regular hood attached with a fluorescent 20W 6500K. So I am getting close to 1.91watts per gallon


The wpg rule is based on T12 bulbs. It is outdated.

A 28W T5NO produces about the same light output as a 32W T8.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

According to the sticky posted in the lighting section I only have medium/lpw lighting.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I use the stock bulbs the 10k and the actinic.


Actinic bulbs are know to cause algae.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

So should I go to Home Depot and get a 6500k replacement to get rid of this green water. It wont go away!!!!!


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## g01ngog (Dec 30, 2010)

I have a 29-30 gallon as well. When I ran into green water, I got myself a UV Sterilizer from Petsmart and it "went away" in 3-4 days. The reason why I put quotations around the "went away" is because my water is still going through a bacteria bloom (or at least I think so) so my water is not crystal clear yet.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> So should I go to Home Depot and get a 6500k replacement to get rid of this green water. It wont go away!!!!!


Seems the cheapest thing to do is to replace the bulb. Just measure yours and HD. For I had looked at their T5 light system. Only replacement bulb was 1/2 in too short. Also LNT.com might have something. They don't charge for shipment. Then there is Pet Blvd and Big Als. Last time I searched for replacement bulbs found Pet Blvd to have the best deal.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Thank you for the suggestions. I'm going to try the cheapest route possible and go to HD they have dumb deals on lightbulbs. Buy 1 for $6 or 2 for 7$ so Ill have an extra


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I'm going to try the cheapest route possible and go to HD


Just don't forget to measure what you need to replace.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well I went to the LFS to see if they carried the bulb and they didnt. While I was there I picked up some Hair grass and some Glossostigma. I bought WAY too much. My idea was to create 3 carpets. One of micro sword on then hair grass in the middle and glosso on the other side. I almost have full carpets already with how much they gave me. I will be dosing excel every day and giving my tank a siesta to try to combat algae.

Here are some pics:


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well adding the Hairgrass and the glosso did not help combat the algae yet. I am going to start 50% water changes today for the rest of the week to see if that will help. 

Another note my plants are all losing their color, what could cause this?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

I took the coralife saltwater light fixture back. I couldnt find any bulbs in my area to replace the actinic bulb. The reason I took it back was my LFS had a CFL deluxe single for freshwater for only 20$ more than I paid for the first one, so I figured it would be the same price to get a better fixture than just replacing the bulbs. The store has a lot of the Aquaticlife t5ho's set up on all of their tanks, so after seeing the difference in the 2 lights I choose to upgrade to the Aquatic Life 30" Dual Lamp T5HO 48watt. Upon setting this up over my tank I have to say that there is a huge aesthetic bonus to this fixture. My tank looks 10x more professional and the colors are amazing.

I did another 50% water change this morning and it looks like the green is starting to subside. When I cleaned out my filter sponge was loaded with algae spores, so hopefully cleaning that will help as well. 

My sword plants look absolutely terrible, I hope it is because of the green water. I started to dose excel every morning as well as plugged my DIY CO2 back in. The glosso that I planted looks to be growing well so far. The hairgrass I planted needs to grow out a so I can train it to carpet. If the microsword and glosso start to fill in rapidly I will start to remove the hairgrass as I like the coloring of them better. 

I will post pictures tonight of the new setup and will see how I can make the scape look better. Any ideas would be great.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

On my way home I stopped at Petco to see if they had anything. They had a lot of new plants to pick from. They had Bleheri and lots of micro sword. Here is what it looks like now. 




























The new lamp fixture.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> They had Bleheri and lots of micro sword.


You didn't get the Bleheri (Amazon sword) did you? I was told it will out grow the 29G.

Glad you changed the light. Surprised it looks so brilliant with an Actinic in it. Read that they cause algae but at Atlantis aquarium store owner said he has used it over freshwater tank. Thus after looking at your tank thinking it depends on the combination. Still think best to have it on 4hrs 2x with 3hr siesta. Tis what I do to keep algae under control.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

The more knowledgeable people at my LFS told me that I would be combating the algae with unused light spectrum for the plants and advised me to go ahead and bring the fixture back. The new one has a 6k bulb and a 650nm bulb, it is really bright. The green water isnt as bad or doesnt seem as bad due to the lights. 

*HELP* - my swords are all looking like they are dying. All of their leaves are turning brown slowly. They have root tabs and I dose flourish combo supplement once a week and excel every day with diy co.


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## .Mko. (Sep 23, 2010)

Maybe back down on the excel a bit and also do you have a test kit? you should really invest in one and test the water parameters in your tank so you know whats going on. Do your goldfish dig up anyplants? I know they like nibling on gravel so do they ever uproot your plants?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> my swords are all looking like they are dying. They have root tabs.
> co.


Do you know the ingredients in the root tabs?

They are probably going through and adjustment. Aqueon Plant Food has helped my plants to adjust. I got it at Pet Smart.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

I am using the seachem flourish tabs, the list of ingredients is really long. I wish we had petsmart here, we only have petco, petworld, and walmart. I just did another 50% water change and the clarity seems to be getting better. I also cleaned out the second filter, both filters were disgusting with dead algae from using the algae control. I hope this helps.

Another one of my zebra danios died with some kind of deformity, its weord that both died in a L shape. The rest of my fish except my big goldfish are really happy swimming around a lot. I'm going to let the water mix a little bit more then check it and also take it in to have it checked.


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## g01ngog (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm going to stick by my suggestion of getting yourself a UV sterilizer from Petsmart. For your 29 gallon the 9w one will be good enough. Its about 50 dollars and is a really good investment to fight green algae. My water looked worse than yours 2 weeks ago, and last week it started getting clear, and now its perfect and I smile every time I look at the UV. Trust me you won't regret buying a sterilizer.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

3/8


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I am using the seachem flourish tabs
> 
> Another one of my zebra danios died with some kind of deformity


Great! Seachem tabs best for the crypts and amazon. 

Sounds like new tank syndrome. Having Goldfish adds to the difficulty of cycling the tank. For they big waste producers. Try Seachem stability . Dose 5ml daily for a week.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well this morning there is still a little bit of a greenish tint to the water. 

My sword corner looks terrible. I have root tabs and I dose excel with CO2. Please help.

My apongeton has been putting out new chutes like crazy except they are all pink and havnt turned green and are almost as long as the green ones. 

The sagittaria looks like it has acclimated to my tank and is starting to get green new growth. 

The glosso seems to like the conditions of my tank and is putting out little green leaves. 

And the microsword carpet needs a little more time to adjust and start filling in. 

I am not sure where the lone zebra danio went because he stopped schooling with the other danio when the last zebra died. He was just hanging out at the bottom of my tank for a while

Update: took my water to the LFS and had them check it out and their test said my levels were spot on and suggested that I should prune my swords down to only new growth.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

.Mko. said:


> Maybe back down on the excel a bit and also do you have a test kit? you should really invest in one and test the water parameters in your tank so you know whats going on. Do your goldfish dig up anyplants? I know they like nibling on gravel so do they ever uproot your plants?


I have cut back to dosing excel every other day. I have the test strips and the results all fall into the ideal range for everything. So far my goldfish havnt dug anything up. They did nibble a bit on new growth but have seemed to stop doing that. They are learning to deal with the microsword carpet.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

3/11
Still green water after all my water changes... UGH! The consensus on this forum is to just let it run its course? 









The swords still look TERRIBLE. Aren't they supposed to be easier plants? The LFS told me to get rid of all damaged leaves even if that means leaving 1-2 new growth leaves, but they dont seem to be doing any better since I removed the old leaves.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

What is your light period. Think 4hrs on 2x with 3hr siesta would help. It is what helps me. Wish you would get the seachem stability that I recommended. Also changing water weekly using 2 bottles of distilled water has help me combat algae.

Your plants don't look that bad. Give them time.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Hilde said:


> What is your light period. Think 4hrs on 2x with 3hr siesta would help. It is what helps me. Wish you would get the seachem stability that I recommended. Also changing water weekly using 2 bottles of distilled water has help me combat algae.
> 
> Your plants don't look that bad. Give them time.


I have my lights currently set for 9-9 with a 3 hour break from 1-4, I will move the last time up to 8pm for 2x4hrs. I will go get some more seachem stuff on my way home today. What does the stability do? isn't that the blue label one called Stabil? I just ran out of that during my 50% water changes all week. When you say 2 bottles of water, what is the size of the bottle. Right now I am just using the 5 gallon jug that I got from the fish store. 

The left side of my tank has adjusted and is having decent growth(sagittaria has a runner). Its just my sword corner. All of the swords I have started with good growth and at the week mark they just crumbled completely. Another user suggested I have a potassium deficiency and my research online said the same thing. So I will pick up something for that today as well. I just hate that I bring home healthy plants they grow a little and then just crap out and when I go to the store they have the same plants from the same batch order that havnt grown but still look healthy.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I will go get some more seachem stuff on my way home today. What does the stability do? isn't that the blue label one called Stabil?
> 
> When you say 2 bottles of water, what is the size of the bottle.
> 
> The left side of my tank has adjusted and is having decent growth (sagittaria has a runner). Its just my sword corner. the swords at the week mark they just crumbled completely.


Seachem stability may be cheaper here. Info on it here. Yes, it is the blue label one called Stabil.

Distilled water, 1 Gallon, can be bought at grocery store etc. 

Oh, now I see what you are talking about. Brightwell FlorinK would supply the potassium sulfate. Note, the site I am directing you to does not charge for shipping.

Their plants probably look better for they don't keep their plants very long. They get shipments weekly.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Hilde said:


> Distilled water, 1 Gallon, can be bought at grocery store etc.
> 
> Their plants probably look better for they don't keep their plants very long. They get shipments weekly.


With the distilled water is that what you are doing your water changes with? or are you using the 2 gallons in combination with another 3 gallons of conditioned tap water for about 20% water change. I do bigger than 10% weekly b/c of the goldfish. 

Thank you for all of your help.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> Are you using the 2 gallons in combination with another 3 gallons of conditioned tap water for about 20% water change. I do bigger than 10% weekly b/c of the goldfish.
> 
> Thank you for all of your help.


I had some string algae in Sept., 2010. Thus from Sept until now was doing approx. 1/3 water changes in combination with conditioned tap water. I basicly just fill my bucket up 2xs. Didn't do it this time for forgot the water and had to immediate water change since I saw a dead fish. Having started a new job I have been neglecting my tank. Death probably due to toxins in water. 

When I started out I lost 2 groups of plants. Would have shut the tank down if others hadn't sent me plants.


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## Zareth (Dec 13, 2010)

I feel so bad for goldfish.. I cant imagine these goldfish with bloody tumors on their heads were found like this naturally, more likely humans bred them to be completely disgusting and useless. Could these survive in the wild? 
How come so many gold fish have big bulbous eyes and are fat and ugly? Koi do not look like this, is this human breeding, selecting disadvantageous mutations for looks?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Sorry about your loss, but congratulations on the new job. How long did it take you to get a tank to be able to allow plants to do well? Did you make any changes to your tank? How is your tank doing?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> How long did it take you to get a tank to be able to allow plants to do well? Did you make any changes to your tank? How is your tank doing?


Let me check my post on Aquatic plant central and perhaps I can jog my memory. I started with a 10 gallon Dec 2007. It was May 2008 that I finally got things growing good. My lights were to low for the plants I had. What helped was putting organic charcoal, which I bought at Ace hardware store, in the substrate. 

Here it is now.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Friday morning the green algae was still getting worse, so I am doing a black out this weekend. I blanketed it around noon on Friday. Tonight I am going to do the water change and clean the filters. I hope this works and solves the problem. I'm going to stop feeding my fish every day to only MWF now just to help combat the problem. 

Hilde - your tanks all look amazing can not wait to start getting mine to look like that.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

How about getting the stability? 

The organic charcoal you can put in the substrate without making changes. I soaked it over night and then crushed it. Crushed it by wrapping it in window plastic and then hitting it with a hammer. Then stuffed small bits of it under the substrate.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

When I went to the store to get the stability and potassium, the floor manager told me to do a black out over the weekend before I buy anything. I'm not sure if I should do the water change tonight or tomorrow. What would be better? 

What does the charcoal do?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I'm not sure if I should do the water change tonight or tomorrow. What would be better?
> 
> What does the charcoal do?


Here is my suggestion:
1.Blackout 2 days
2.Water change
3.Lights, which are the engine, on 3hrs/ off 3hrs/ on 3hrs for 4wks. Then up to 4hrs 2xs. 
4.Fish food every other day.
5.Excel 10ml dayly 4wks, then to 5ml
6.Brightwell FlorinK or Seachem Potassium 5ml dly for 1 week then weekly
7.Seachem stability, for the Goldfish waste need high amount of bacteria.

Compare the prices at LFS to the links. Should be cheaper. Also the site doesn't charge for shipment.

The charcoal helped provide usable iron to help the plants to adapt to the low light that I had.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Thank you for this schedule I will do my best to follow it. The only problem is I dont have anyway of getting exact measurements for the dosing. 

1.Blackout 2 days
2.Water change
Did this over the weekend and the water this morning looks a lot clearer than before so far. 
3.Lights, which are the engine, on 3hrs/ off 3hrs/ on 3hrs for 4wks. Then up to 4hrs 2xs.
I changed my timer to have this schedule 10-1 4-7. 
4.Fish food every other day.
I will do this.
5.Excel 10ml dayly 4wks, then to 5ml
6.Brightwell FlorinK or Seachem Potassium 5ml dly for 1 week then weekly
I picked up the seachem at my store and will start dosing today. 
7.Seachem stability, for the Goldfish waste need high amount of bacteria. - Ok, I will pick up another bottle of this stuff. 

Thank you so much for helping me. It really means a lot that theres someone giving me good advice and is patient enough to see all the different possibilities/outcomes that will happen.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I dont have anyway of getting exact measurements for the dosing.
> 
> Seachem stability, for the Goldfish waste need high amount of bacteria. - Ok, I will pick up another bottle of this stuff.
> 
> Thank you so much for helping me. It really means a lot that theres someone giving me good advice and is patient enough to see all the different possibilities/outcomes that will happen.


I use a syringe I got in Wal-mart for baby medicine. Also on the bottle is says 1 cap is 5ml.

you're welcome! I have learned the hard way and lost a lot of plants and a few fish along the way. 

Isn't Seachem stability cheaper here?

I am amazed that you are doing a planted tank with so many Goldfish. I had wanted to that but decided against. If you succeed I will may get 1 after I move.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

The difference of a few pennies doesnt matter to me when I can just pick it up at my store. The goldfish do not mess with the larger plants. They did eat plants with lots of leaves and the new growth on some plants. The Uruguayensis Sword is going to have to be replaced since it didnt make it through the black out.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

Here is a couple of suggestions in no particular order...

1. Glossostigma and foreground plants. Glosso needs very bright light to spread quickly and stay low. Under low light it grows straight up instead of speading outward. It is slow growing in the begining anyway even under the best of conditions. Ideally it is a plant that needs bright light and high C02 levels to grow as a ground cover. Probably not the best choice for your set up, and not a good choice to out compete algae/green water. Foreground plants in general are not fast growers.

2. Sword plants are heavy root feeders and need nitrogen. In a new tank there is not much nutrients of any kind in the substrate. You have some kind of soil underneath the sand, and this should be providing nitrogen to the plants, but for some reason the sword plants may be having a hard time utilizing it. There are various types of fertilizer tabs that you could put into the gravel next to the Swords. 

3. The Walstad method is more than just using soil. If you are truly interested in her methodology you need to get her book to better understand it and take all the needed steps. Her low tech, or no tech approach produces slow growth in most all plants and you need a lot of patience. Green water is also very common with the Walstad method or when working with soil. Soil releases ammonia which is a big cause of green water.

4. If you keep everything stable the green water should work itself out eventually. Do not over feed the fish, have the lights on a timer and choose a light period of somewhere between 8 and 10 hours a day and stick to it. Don't move the plants around or stir up the substrate. Do water changes but not too frequently. Clean your filter regularly by rinsing it out, (don't do anything to kill the bacteria in the filter media) Go easier on the liquid ferts. In fact, I would cut out the ferts competely and force the plants to draw nutrients from the soil. Thats the whole point of the Walstad method. Various types of bacteria will not only cycle your tank, but help break down particulates in the water that feed green water. There is a product called the Eco-bio rock which conatains these bacteria. Its works great. But regardless, you need to make things stable and allow time to work thru it.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Robert H said:


> Here is a couple of suggestions in no particular order...
> 
> 1. Glossostigma and foreground plants. Glosso needs very bright light to spread quickly and stay low. Under low light it grows straight up instead of speading outward. It is slow growing in the begining anyway even under the best of conditions. Ideally it is a plant that needs bright light and high C02 levels to grow as a ground cover. Probably not the best choice for your set up, and not a good choice to out compete algae/green water. Foreground plants in general are not fast growers.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input I will take into account the suggestions that you have made to help me from going crazy to get my tank into shape. 

Do you have any recommendations of other root tabs to add? I already have the seachem flourish tabs at the roots of each plant. 

When I set up the tank with the soil, the guide I found didnt say to add any kind of clay or coal for iron purposes so I missed that bit of info. 

I am following the schedule that Hilde posted earlier, feeding MWF and only dosing the excel and potassium because my plants leaves have become thin and clear. 

I leave for spring break this friday so there will be just over a week of nothing besides the auto feeder and light timer on the tank. I hope that the new schedule will work its way out over break so I can come home to a better tank.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I leave for spring break this friday so there will be just over a week of nothing besides the auto feeder and light timer on the tank.


I would try the automatic feed a few days before leaving. When I used it food got moist. Also when I leave I cut the lights down by 2hrs.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Hilde said:


> I would try the automatic feed a few days before leaving. When I used it food got moist. Also when I leave I cut the lights down by 2hrs.


If I cut down my hours for lights then they would only be on for a total of 4 hours a day with the current schedule that the timer is on.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

The mean green has returned. Only have lights on 3hrs 3 break 3 on again. my room is blacked out so there is no ambient lighting that the tank is receiving.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM: PHOSPHATES THROUGH THE ROOOF!!! ABOVE 10PPM The owner of the store was there today and after doing all the normal water tests everything checked out we decided that we should pull out the phosphate test which they dont normally do but it dark blue and thats the issue with the green water. I bought some phosguard and put only a little bit into my filter to help.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

ikuzo has an 18G planted tank with Goldfish. Perhaps he can help you.

When I used phosguard my nitrates went. Uncertain if was the main cause of increase of nitrates, for had a new fish which had difficulty getting food to thus overfed others.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well I am still not back from break, but I set up my laptop's webcam so I could view it remotely. The water was getting greener for the past week but today is day 7 that I have the phosguard in and my tank is getting clearer.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)




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## MaStErFiShKeEps (Dec 6, 2010)

Your tank looks over-stocked!


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well I am back from vacation and what a way to come back. My tank has never been this clear, even empty. The phosguard really did the job cleaning up the green water. My filters were just demolished with the dead algae and needed extensive cleaning to get them to run quietly again. I am extremely happy with the way it looks now and can not wait to see the plants thrive. I am going to slowly increase the amount of light per day so I can enjoy it longer. The max I am going to let them run for is 4hr x2. 

I added some swords to the sword corner because it needed some love. Here is my tank now


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> Well I am back from vacation and what a way to come back. My tank has never been this clear, even empty. The phosguard really did the job


Congratulations!! I shall save this experience in my Aquarium info file. So your going to continue using phosguard? 

Did you set up automatic feeders for the fish? All fish alive?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Hilde said:


> Congratulations!! I shall save this experience in my Aquarium info file. So your going to continue using phosguard?
> 
> Did you set up automatic feeders for the fish? All fish alive?


I plan to keep the phosguard in for at least another week or 2 but not for very long. I will replace it with purigen to help keep everything stable. 

The feeder worked or it seemed like it did. Every one is all counted for. The few ghost shrimp I added to pick up the extra food and waste disappeared, so I figure they were eaten but they are feeder shrimp.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)




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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)




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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

I really want another type of carpeting plant to put into the sword corner. The glosso didnt make it. Things with small leaves do not do well with goldies. I was thinking something along the lines of dwarf hair grass. If anyone knows where to get some and if it will carpet quickly in my current set up?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Big Update:
After I finally got my tank clear from the algae I over cleaned the filters. So this past week I have been going through a mini cycle with white cloudy water. I am having trouble with my swords still I bought another Uruguayensis about a week ago and it doesnt look like it is doing very well. The same story with the Bleheri, but I did buy a sword that I do not know the type and it seems to be doing alright. It is the medium sized sword in the pictures. 

FTS:


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Seachem replenish should help speed the cycling. Only 5.14 at LNT.com and shipment free.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)




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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

I am finding that my substrate is a little too tight. I am going to start to vacuum it when I do my water changes to help loosen it up. There is a huge build up of o2 and it was killing my plants.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I am finding that my substrate is a little too tight. There is a huge build up of o2 and it was killing my plants.


How did you figure that out?


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

Hilde said:


> How did you figure that out?


Thats exactly what I was thinking.
Fine sand will trap air bubbles they will go away as the tank ages.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Hilde said:


> How did you figure that out?





Quesenek said:


> Thats exactly what I was thinking.
> Fine sand will trap air bubbles they will go away as the tank ages.


My aponogetons stopped growing and when I pulled them from the sand their roots were completely rotten. Also huge pocket of gas came out of the corner. I posted another thread asking about this http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/134062-how-let-built-up-o2-out.html I also then stirred up the sand in open areas and found that it was black just under the surface. The research and people on this site suggested it to be a build up of Hydrogen Sulfide because it smells like rotten eggs. I added some MTS and have vacuumed most of the sand in the problem areas out and have been getting growth from those areas again.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

jhwku said:


> My aponogetons stopped growing and when I pulled them from the sand their roots were completely rotten. Also huge pocket of gas came out of the corner. I posted another thread asking about this http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/134062-how-let-built-up-o2-out.html I also then stirred up the sand in open areas and found that it was black just under the surface. The research and people on this site suggested it to be a build up of Hydrogen Sulfide because it smells like rotten eggs. I added some MTS and have vacuumed most of the sand in the problem areas out and have been getting growth from those areas again.


Yeah I get it now. The MTS should prevent it from happening again so your probably safe from it happening again.
Was it play sand that caused it in the first place?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Quesenek said:


> Yeah I get it now. The MTS should prevent it from happening again so your probably safe from it happening again.
> Was it play sand that caused it in the first place?


I used white silica sand. I wanted to have a white base and this was the only thing I could find in my area. The LFS said it would be ok just that it might get a little compact if I dont stir it, and well they were right.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)




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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> My aponogetons stopped growing and when I pulled them from the sand their roots were completely rotten.
> 
> Had build up of Hydrogen Sulfide.


They need seachem tabs ($9.53 and no ship cost).

Do you poke the sand?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Hilde said:


> They need seachem tabs ($9.53 and no ship cost).
> 
> Do you poke the sand?


They already died from the hydrogen sulfide pockets. They already had the seachem tabs under them. I had to manually stir up all the sand and topsoil in that corner to let out, what I hope, all the gas. I only have this tank for about another month and then I will start selling parts off.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> I only have this tank for about another month and then I will start selling parts off.


So you are giving up? I lost 3 sets of plants before I got things growing. I posted my delima in WTB and got 2 sets for free.

Here is simplified version of what I do:
1st layer .5 in Reptile coconut bark (supplies Co2)
2nd layer 1 to 1.5 in Scott's top soil (has to be sifted. True Value doesn't)
3rd layer .5 in River sand.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Hilde said:


> So you are giving up? I lost 3 sets of plants before I got things growing. I posted my delima in WTB and got 2 sets for free.
> 
> Here is simplified version of what I do:
> 1st layer .5 in Reptile coconut bark (supplies Co2)
> ...


No I am not giving up. I leave to go home for 3 months and theres no one to keep the tank running for that time so I am going to sell what I can and grow the rest emersed.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

An update. Still have a little green water but its bearable now. I can see my plants and fish again. My phosphates were super high because I was using a phosphate buffer. I have finally got them down to a reasonable level just a little more to go. Here are some pictures.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

As long as the plants are growing don't worry about the green water. 

I wonder if a bag of purigen in the filter would help clear it up. 

I thought you were going to tear it down and sell all. Change?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Hilde said:


> As long as the plants are growing don't worry about the green water.
> 
> I wonder if a bag of purigen in the filter would help clear it up.
> 
> I thought you were going to tear it down and sell all. Change?


My LFS had their big anniversary sale a few weeks ago and the Hagen rep was there. I have been having nothing but problems with my AC50, so I bought a Fluval 205 at a really good price. Talking to the rep he advised me that if I can get the filter up and running before I leave that my tank should be good run it self for 3 months with someone just topping off the water every other week. 

The baskets in the filter currently have 2 sets of bio media, a bag of purigen and a algone packet. The green goes in phases, it will clear up to barely any then start to layer back in but no where near as bad as it had been. 

The plants are growing and my new apon bulbs are growing great. The hydrogen sulfide is in the clay substrate and I am slowly getting all of it out, its just hard trying not to destroy the micro sword carpet. 

My issue with my AC50 started around March, the original filter I bought in December and ran fine until March it started to vibrate really bad and screech. Something cut grooves into the impeller shaft and caused it to be ruff. Then at the sale the Hagen rep exchanged the filter for a new one and I had the same problems but in less time. Only 2 weeks on the new filter. Took it in to the LFS and they were positive they could fix it. The screech that the filter made could be heard across the whole store which includes numerous birds and construction of a new reptile area. They gave me another replacement but I am not going to use it until I start another tank. Everyone only says good things about Hagen and their Aquaclear series but not so in my case, so just another persons review from experience.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jhwku said:


> Talking to the rep he advised me that if I can get the filter up and running before I leave that my tank should be good run it self for 3 months with someone just topping off the water every other week.


What about the feeding of the fish? 

When I go on vacation for a few weeks I leave fish without any food. They are fine when I get back. First time tried automatic feeder and came back with dead fish. With plants there are micro-organisms in the tank. Thus thinking someone should feed them 1x a week and they should be okay. But they may eat the plants. Should experiment before you leave.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)




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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Back in action. My tank ran itself for 3 months with almost no problems. The first 2 months looked great and the third month aglae and neglect made the tank look poor. After the move to a new place everything was cut back. I have finally got it looking decent again and just got CO2 up and running(paintball).


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Looks nice and ready to go.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

2in10 said:


> Looks nice and ready to go.


Thanks I hope so. We shall see soon. 

I have started to see my micro sword leaves turning black. This started before I added the CO2. I do not know what it is but does not brush off the leaves and is starting to spread. Please if you know what it could be and how to treat it or should I just leave it alone and the CO2 will help?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

My microsword is turning black. Its starting to spread rapidly please identify.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well the majority of my microsword had BGA and had to be removed. I am replacing it with DHG. I have been growing some emmersed for a couple of months and hope that I can place it into the tank successfully. My ferts should be here today so I shall start the EI method tomorrow.

I also am changing the stocking of my tank to 2 german blue rams and a school of cardinal tetras. I just introduced the rams and will wait a few weeks to get the tetras. How many can I get?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Your plant load is low so remember not to over do the ferts, I thought your tank was doing well but I think after it ran out of nutients you started to have a little algae problem.

I would try 1/3 of what recommended for a 30 gallon tank and then check the nitrates at the end of the week right before you do the water change.

If you add more plants you can add more fish, the tank should be cleaner with the new fish but I would add 5 at a time and after 2 weeks add 5 more, the fish load will also show up when you test for nitrates, the poo makes plant food, do you see how the balance works?

I could never grow micro sword in my tank!

That big orange fish looks like a poo & ammonia machine!!!


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

150EH said:


> Your plant load is low so remember not to over do the ferts, I thought your tank was doing well but I think after it ran out of nutients you started to have a little algae problem.
> 
> I would try 1/3 of what recommended for a 30 gallon tank and then check the nitrates at the end of the week right before you do the water change.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice on how to use the fertilizers. I will start off slowly. I just received them yesterday and will start with a little today. 

When I had all the goldfish in there they must have provided enough nutrients for the micro sword because it grew amazing. But I lost the 2 main goldfish that were the reason behind keeping goldfish.(Big red cap orandas) So now I am learning to take care of more difficult prettier fish. The goldfish in now are just plain annoying because they just dig the entire time and make my plants super dirty.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Time for a little update. I am almost done with my first week of the EI method. My plants have stayed a lot cleaner without the 2 goldfish digging up the sand all of the time. Just waiting to have time to get some cardinals now. The DHG is transitioning from emmersed and I can see small new growth.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It looks good so far and even if you get a little algae don't back off the EI it will pass. I only make changes on a weekly basis or even less, it takes time for the tank to respond.

The fish you removed are some of the harder fish to keep, they produce more waste than most and require more filter and cleaning, so things should get easier quickly.

You should join "the fraternity of dirt" you will se this in the members signature, but they could be a big help with knowing your substrate well, plus it fits right in with the whole college theme, good luck.

Here's the link


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

150EH said:


> It looks good so far and even if you get a little algae don't back off the EI it will pass. I only make changes on a weekly basis or even less, it takes time for the tank to respond.
> 
> The fish you removed are some of the harder fish to keep, they produce more waste than most and require more filter and cleaning, so things should get easier quickly.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all your support and help. I am really enjoying not taking care of those messy fish. When I bagged them up for my friend to take to home they made all kinds of a mess in the bags. 

The pair of rams I have are really active all over the tank. I was told they just hang out near the bottom. Is it because I do not have the school of fish in there right now?


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Tank looks good


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I see you found your dirty friends, there are some nice dirt tanks in that group and I can't wait to try one.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

yes I did, nothing better to do during class than browse the forums.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Some good new and some bad news. The bad news first is one of my clown loaches died last night with what is probably an internal parasite,(skinny disease). And I think my tank may have ick. 
The good news is my pair of German Rams laid eggs Thursday night. I do not know what to do with them now? Do I just wait?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Here is an update on my tank. Nothing big has happened, everything has been growing out like crazy. My GBR's have been laying eggs every 2 weeks but none seem to make it and they end up eating all the eggs. Here are some pictures.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

UPDATE: Bad news my female GBR died sometime between last night and this morning. I tested the water and did not see any problems but I will have it tested again at my LFS tonight. My male is going crazy. How do I go about pairing him up with another female without buying a lot of females, my LFS doesn't take fish back. 

PLEASE HELP I have been losing close to a fish a week and do not know why. I do my 50% water changes once a week and dose the EI method. I have paintball CO2 as well.


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## d.rock (Sep 25, 2011)

Could your CO2 be running too high? Do you have a drop checker?


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

d.rock said:


> Could your CO2 be running too high? Do you have a drop checker?


No i do not. I have the CO2 running at close to 2-3 bps but i have to readjust it every day, the amount slows down to less than 1 bps in the morning.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Well after successfully introducing another female GBR I found her dead this morning. Looks like another case of domestic violence in the fish tank. Good thing I live close to Topeka. I am going to leave the male alone from now on. I may add another school of tetras, rummy nose, for contrast. 

Here are some updated pictures:


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## Steve N (Nov 19, 2011)

I like your tank. I've had some bad luck with cichlids in my 29 gallon dirt tank too. However, I don't dose ferts or CO2. My problem was camelanus worms and the fish simply not socializing well. I don't know if they should be housed with other fish, as the worm-death is supposedly stress related.

My tank is thick with life. The tank is currently home to 20 Tetras, 5 Cories, 3 Ottos and 8 pygmy cories. It has been moved to a window lit location, which I think jives with the dirt/sand substrate really well. It has 5 swords growing and I've added moneywort, cabomba and something that looks like stringly moneywort (which I'm not fond of). Once the plants grow in more, I'll post a photo - it's currently my favorite tank. The bioload may seem out of proportion with the volume, but other than having trouble with cichlids, every fish I add thrives.

Also in the tanks are MTS and blackworms that escape from being fish food.

I'm not going to promote overloading tanks, but I can't help myself from filling in the niches. In fact, I might just have to add back 1 drawf cichlid, after finishing a month of medicated food.... nah - I shouldn't.


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

Steve N said:


> I like your tank. I've had some bad luck with cichlids in my 29 gallon dirt tank too. However, I don't dose ferts or CO2. My problem was camelanus worms and the fish simply not socializing well. I don't know if they should be housed with other fish, as the worm-death is supposedly stress related.
> 
> My tank is thick with life. The tank is currently home to 20 Tetras, 5 Cories, 3 Ottos and 8 pygmy cories. It has been moved to a window lit location, which I think jives with the dirt/sand substrate really well. It has 5 swords growing and I've added moneywort, cabomba and something that looks like stringly moneywort (which I'm not fond of). Once the plants grow in more, I'll post a photo - it's currently my favorite tank. The bioload may seem out of proportion with the volume, but other than having trouble with cichlids, every fish I add thrives.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Its just really odd about my cichlids, the male has been thriving but he kills the females after 2-3 spawns fail. I am not going to add another female maybe another school of tetras(rummynose). I just recently added 6 kuhli loaches to combat my MTS problem. They were taking over my tank, couldnt tell if I had grass or a carpet of snails. 

When you get a chance I would really want to see a picture of your tank. 

Here is today's picture of the tank.


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## ccbeauch (Jul 29, 2012)

I was wondering how long it took your hair grass to grow? I bought mine two weeks ago and all 5 groups are turning yellow. I cut them into smaller peices and re planted and still turning yellow. I also like your tank a lot. keep up the good work!


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## jhwku (Feb 25, 2011)

ccbeauch said:


> I was wondering how long it took your hair grass to grow? I bought mine two weeks ago and all 5 groups are turning yellow. I cut them into smaller peices and re planted and still turning yellow. I also like your tank a lot. keep up the good work!


My hairgrass took forever in my set up. The pictures make it look fuller than it actually is. With the proper amount of CO2 and ferts it grew a little faster. It just takes time to root. The original leaves did turn yellow on the larger clumps. Its hard when you want it to look good and you dont see anything, but once it takes hold it will grow fast. The best thing I did was get a weekly pill container and every morning when I woke up I just mixed and dumped the ferts and stopped paying attention. 

Thanks, I just recently graduated from college and sold this tank. I am looking to set up another one here in the future that will be bigger.


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## flowerfishs (May 6, 2009)

I use to put gold fish in my first planted tank too. They are so cute and nice.


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