# Quality Aquascaping: Planned or Evolved?



## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Being typical of a number of people on this forum, I find myself on the precipice... about to take the leap from my first small planted tank, into something _more_. Most of my preparations have been around the technical details of the new tank - the stuff that's easy for me to tackle. But the aquascape! Ahhh, the _raison d'etre_ of the new tank! That's a tougher problem. 

I find myself having great difficulty moving beyond the very first step - deciding on a simple layout or design. So I'm wondering are quality layouts the _product of a plan_? Watching a few videos of Amano in action demonstrates that he definitely begins with the end in mind. Or can those of us with less experience let a _quality aquascape evolve_ over time, and still be successful?

For the purposes of this discussion, I'd ask that this not devolve into a discussion over what _quality_ is or means. Go read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance if you want to see how long and slippery that slope is! For a working definition of quality, as it relates to an aquascape, I'm referring to aquascapes that _take your breath away_, or at least cause you to stop and just say "_Wow_!"

So do quality aquascapes have to be planned? Or can they evolve?


(Note to the reader - I've modified this original post to let the first time reader know that there seems to be a bit of interest in my post titled "I thought this would peak a bit more interest..." So, if you are pressed for time, you might skip to that post.)


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I would suggest they may come from either direction, but planed would be the obvious choice as not to negate the course of trial and error. Mine is what's know as a jungle tank and has a certain appeal, but when ever I browse the galleries I find the tanks with mass groupings of simplicity to be most striking. Find the inner scolley and the aquascape will emerge from within. Hows that for a load of crap!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

150EH said:


> Find the inner scolley and the aquascape will emerge from within!


Thank for the advice. But I've found the "inner scolley" :icon_eek: And he's pretty clueless about whether he can let inspiration take it's course over time, or if true greatness in planted tank aquascaping takes a plan from the start.

Hey Tony! Gomer! You out there? You put a couple of good ones under your belt this year with ADA! What's the answer?

Short of that, any other opinions are much appreciated! Thanks. :icon_wink


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## ming (Dec 6, 2003)

I look at other people pictures and get a feel for how the plant will grow and try to make a smooth layout from tallest plants to shortest. I like a lot of planning before I impliment it, even drawing the layout to get a visual in my head.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

For me this is how its been lately. I start with a general idea of the look that I wanna develop in the tank. 
Then I go about aquireing the plants that I need to get to accomplish this. 
I usually go thru a lot of compromises, because I don't have enough of a certain plant, but I plant anyway in the hopes that I can propogate enough for my vision. When I finally get enough specimens to finish my dream scape my vision for the tank changes. I've learned that the beauty of my tank comes along the way to the supposed "destination". I snap a picture of the tank when I feel that it's breathtaking, but in 2-3 days time it'll look different. Most of my scapes are happy accidents along the way to some destination that I never get to.

Marcel


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I am greener than green at the art of aquascaping. But I do a lot of art in my vocation. I think most musicians/composers, writers, and artists of all stripes spend alot of time looking at what other folks are doing, for ideas and inspiration. Yeah, I guess thats a no brainer. But just the other day I saw a big 180 gallon tank at the LFS, and seeing the vals swaying in the current with a really fat piece of bog wood in front and some pearl grass in the foreground gave me an idea for my new endeavor.(it was full of Bosemani Rainbowfish). 

Problem is, the beauty of that tank... is its simplicity. And I want to put too many different plants in. So restraint is probably a good thing. Which probably requires some kind of plan, even if its mostly in one's head.


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## Blade (Jul 27, 2004)

For me it happens like this, I see something somewhere, a rock, a stream, feild anything really from this I get some general idea that hey this would cool as a fish tank. From there I sort of decontruct it. When building I like to go one step at a time, I add the rocks or driftwood and I may let that sit for a few days while my idea formulates and evolves. 

In general I think if you take your time and don't try to force it by just buying a bunch of plants and throwing it together you will be happy.


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## hoffboy (Feb 20, 2005)

Many gardeners plant everything they can get there hands on as densely as possible and then let nature sort it out. This can work well in the planted tank if you ruthlessly shoot the wounded. The remaining strong plants can guide you as you further prune, cull, and rearrange. From chaos…order.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

Each person is different depending on their own taste and interest. There are many stages to this hobby, and for many people it is constantly evolving. Do what makes you happy and gives you enjoyment. Allow it to evolve and discover what you like and don't like. Look for inspiration, but have fun doing it.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

scolley said:


> Thank for the advice. But I've found the "inner scolley" :icon_eek: And he's pretty clueless about whether he can let inspiration take it's course over time, or if true greatness in planted tank aquascaping takes a plan from the start.


scolley I landscape for a living, so for me they are all planned. Even so the best ones I've ever done are a accident, because no matter how much you plan they don't all turn out to be the best you've ever done. I'd say start with a plan, usually it's a twist on something you've already seen or a style you like and if it doesn't turn out just the way you like it, rearrange it or remove what you don't like and replace it with something else.

I have customers that spend big money on landscapes and on a couple of jobs I've come back to take pictures the following year when everything is in bloom only to find my beautiful landscape littered with clay cats playing with a ball of yarn or full of cheesy Home Depot landscape lighting. I can tell them to take it all out because it looks like $h!t, I just have to bite my tongue and realize that it's not my house, it's not my style, but it's what they like and it was there money.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

150EH said:


> only to find my beautiful landscape littered with clay cats playing with a ball of yarn or full of cheesy Home Depot landscape lighting. I can tell them to take it all out because it looks like $h!t.


So can I take that to mean, start with a plan, but just make sure it doesn't include day-glo castles and a Sponge Bob bubble maker?:icon_wink


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I would say start with a plan, but if you like Sponge Bob or you want to replicate the Crusty Crab in your tank I have no comment that's entirely up to you.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

*I thought this would peak a bit more interest...*

Though there have been some good responses here! Thanks folks. roud: 

I've got to admit, the "planned or evolved" question was a burning one for me. But I suppose that's just indicative of where I am on my planted tank journey at the moment. I have been trying to pay attention, and trying to answer this through observation of answers in this thread, and them many clues and evidence all around me. And as far as I can tell it all depends on:

_experience_​
I think there are three basic groups of aquascapers: the hopeful, the informed, and the experts. And whether their aquaqscape is planned or evolved seems to change with each group, with the first group having results that are just shy of random, and the last being completely planned.

The hopeful group. I am in this group, struggling to get out. I originally called this group "the clueless", but that's not quite giving them enough credit. When I started my current tank I had done just enough reading to know:

Rudimentary concepts - "Big in back, little in front, and try to figure out how to deal with the mysterious mid-ground".

Focus - Neither aquascaping nor aquaculture.

Aquascaping strategy - Primarily to have plants that grow in a tank that's reasonably free of algae. All other aquascaping priorities are secondary.


The informed group knows a number of things the hopeful tend to initially ignore:

Water parameters - And how it works with the plants they are considering. This includes temp, pH, KG, and GH. They are also aware of the nutrient requirements of their plants, and where these nutrients are going to be satisfied, from the tap, built in the substrate, added to the water column, or added to the substrate.

Light - They know what kind of light requirements each of their plants have and plan for it. This include not only intensity, but shade and sometimes color or light "temp".

Growth patterns - They know how big something will get, how much maintenance a plant will require, and how its growth will affect both the look of the tank over time, and also how it will affect the growth of adjacent plants.

Success likelihood - They have enough experience to know if they should be able to be successful with a certain type of plant. Or at least can plan around those areas where they don't have experience.

Focus - These are experienced aquaculturists. They can make a tank work. But aquascaping, the art of creating an esthetically pleasing layout, runs the gamut in this group from rudimentary to inspired. So when planning a new tank, they all have enough knowledge to create a healthy tank, and all have enough aquascaping knowledge to create a nice looking tank. Some have the talent or knowledge to take a tank into the "breathtaking" space.

Aquascaping strategy - Create a tank that has a general layout in mind from the onset, with plans to modify as desired or required as the tank matures.


The expert group - they just plain know. They've been there, they've done it. They know what a tank is going to look like at maturity as soon as they finish laying out the tank. Not every stem and leaf certainly, but enough so that in their "mind's eye", they are seeing what will develop. These people are rare. But I think they are there. IMO we have some of them on this forum, but naming names could get me in trouble with those I don't name. 

Focus - These people can focus where they want. Some will engage in learning exercises in aquaculture, where what it looks like is little concern. Those who focus on the quality of their aquascape, have enough talent, or enough knowledge, to have a high success rate in creating tanks in the "breathtaking" space.

Aquascaping strategy - create the endpoint, or at least the first point of full tank maturation, as the tank is initially planted.​

Maybe this is a BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious) to many of you. Or I may be _completely _ wrong. But I had to pay attention for a while to come to this conclusion. I'd love to know _your _ thoughts. Thanks.


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## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

Wow! That should go in an 'Aquascaping tips for Beginners' thread. We should sticky it and put it in General Discussion.

I think aquascaping involves planning of plants, driftwood, substrate and all that stuff, but you can't plant something for the first time in your life and expect it to look like an amano tank. The eye for what plants look good where is developed by many unsuccesful layouts. I've gone through a setup where I had 4 amazon swords bunched together, thinking it was the most beautiful thing ever, and then they started growing wierd leaves on me. At the time, I didn't realize petsmart grew their plants emersed. 

Also, you need to be able to see what the plants are going to look like when they mature. Glosso, or any carpeting plant, for example. It may look good in one area of the tank, but sooner or later it will spread to everywhere.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

What an excellent thread! roud:

Does anyone keep a tank, like say a 20G, that is essentially a farm tank for plants? i.e. Aquascaping is of no concern, it's simply a place where keeping a variety of plants growing is the primary focus. Just curious, as I could see my 20G evolving into this role as I move up to a large tank. Makes me really wish I'd bought a 20L rather than the 20H actually, but live and learn... should have read Rex's section on tanks before I bought mine. :wink: 

As seems common with many starting out, I've initially suffered from collectoritis and have stuffed as many various plants in my small tank as budget and space have allowed. I think it has to be really hard to get away from wanting to try a variety of plants, hence, my desire to perhaps make this tank a _farm tank_ so to speak, where I can swap plants in and out of as I evolve an aquascape in a large tank. Would seem a good use for a tank that is perhaps kept available for fry, or a hospital tank maybe. If a hospital tank, you'd want to be careful and treat any plants transfered back into your main tank obviously. Just thinking out loud here...

Anyway, I am definitely in Scolley's "Hopeful" category, but my instinct is to look for ideas, wherever those might be... others' tanks, nature, etc... and draw my inspiration. Start with inspiration and a loose plan, and let it evolve from there. But that's just my gut feeling, and I certainly have a lot to learn. Can't wait to move up to a big tank though! I'm sure my aquascape will change more than a few times when I finally do.


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## observant_imp (Jun 30, 2004)

Joan--My husband has done this for me recently (brought home a couple of 55's to keep in the junk room). It's a nice change in mindset to go from "where can I make this fit" to "which plant do I want for this spot." And I don't have to make that horrible decision to eliminate a species I might want later.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

Cheryl,

I thought _somebody_ had to be doing this. It just makes sense to me, at least for the way I approach things. A couple 55G... I'm jealous! :tongue: 

Thanks for the reply! :fish:


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

In the context of planned v. evolving, the first thing that comes to mind for me, especially for someone interested in Amano's work, is a practical issue over the foreground.

I mean, Scolly, if you go with the light-colored substrate foreground (using the cardboard technique to put your eco-complete or whatever behind it), you will have to live with it, or else tear down the whole tank if you stop liking it. Removing separated substrates is not fun. If you choose an open foreground, you can never grow forground plants in it as well, so it is something to think about carefully.

Besides that, I would say to start collecting water safe driftwood and rocks-- better to have too many supplies than too little. Actually arranging the hardscape before putting anything else in can help you prepare. 

The other thing I'd say is . . . anubias nana is always gold (some of it literally, heh heh). No one can make a sizable group of that plant look bad.  It compliments almost any other plant.

Then again, I'm a real mid-ground whore so I'm prejudiced . . .


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks for the replies (and interest) folks!...



joan said:


> Does anyone keep a tank, like say a 20G, that is essentially a farm tank for plants?


Joan - as a fellow "Hopeful", I think I am going to be forced to do as you suggest. It appears that this a fairly common practice, known to the "informed" as a "grow out tank". Cheryl is one of the lucky ones that figured this out quickly and planned (or her husband planned!) appropriately. roud: 

Being in the ranks of the "hopeful", I'm not sure if we have any choice as we move to bigger tanks. IMO this is still a great option for the "informed", but their knowledge allows them to get by without this if they are willing to do serious forward planning, and stick with what they "know" in new tanks.




greenmiddlefinger said:


> the first thing that comes to mind for me, especially for someone interested in Amano's work, is a practical issue over the foreground...
> 
> if you go with the light-colored substrate foreground (using the cardboard technique to put your eco-complete or whatever behind it), you will have to live with it...
> 
> ...


Wow Greenmiddlefinger. Those are nuggets of pure gold. Maybe obvious to someone that definately is way-solid in the "informed" group (and might be in the "expert"). But they are not as obvious as you might suppose to the "hopeful".

Thanks! I had assumed that I needed to begin planting some more annubias, and cherishing my java-fern overgrown driftwood. Now I know. roud:

PS - yeah, I plan on being careful with that Amano cardboard technique. It's clearly "Love it - like it or not". And yes, as I indirectly aluded to in my prior post, the "hopeful" can at least _try _ to do foreground and background. At this point in my understanding, I understand your "midground" bias. For it would seem that is where most of the magic is.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

scolley said:


> Joan - as a fellow "Hopeful", I think I am going to be forced to do as you suggest. It appears that this a fairly common practice, known to the "informed" as a "grow out tank". Cheryl is one of the lucky ones that figured this out quickly and planned (or her husband planned!) appropriately. roud:
> 
> Being in the ranks of the "hopeful", I'm not sure if we have any choice as we move to bigger tanks. IMO this is still a great option for the "informed", but their knowledge allows them to get by without this if they are willing to do serious forward planning, and stick with what they "know" in new tanks.


I have a feeling even as I become one of the, or at least _more_, "informed" I will like having a smaller tank or two as a grow out tank. I know how much I change my mind! :wink: :hihi: It certainly would give you nice flexibility to try different ideas in your main tank. I think even with serious informed forward planning often you're just not going to know if you like the end result until you get there. From my own experience and from discussions with others in regards to other artistic endeavours, even the most planned projects undergo a certain amount of evolution as they progress.

I can't wait for a large tank so I can put this all into practice rather than theory! :fish:


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

joan said:


> From my own experience and from discussions with others in regards to other artistic endeavours, even the most planned projects undergo a certain amount of evolution as they progress.


Agreed. I assume everyone makes little "tweaks" here and there. But if a tank is has already been laid out, and is growing in, and a major change is made, it seems it could be for a number of reasons:

1) Inspiration - realizing that something else will be even _better_
2) Mood - changing your mind about what you want
3) "Winging it" - Deliberate lack of planning to let the muses guide your hand as things develop (I'm personally highly suspicious of this as a method to create great tanks)
4) Inexperience - just not realizing something wasn't going to work out as well as you hoped.

I'm still just hoping for the best, and keeping options open.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

scolley said:


> 1) Inspiration - realizing that something else will be even _better_
> 2) Mood - changing your mind about what you want
> 3) "Winging it" - Deliberate lack of planning to let the muses guide your hand as things develop (I'm personally highly suspicious of this as a method to create great tanks)
> 4) Inexperience - just not realizing something wasn't going to work out as well as you hoped.


I expect 3 and 4 to figure significantly in my tanks for the next year or so, and I _know_ 1 and 2 will always play a role, lol. 

But, like you, I want to learn as much as possible, hope for the best and keep options open in the hopes of keeping 3 and 4 to as much of a minimum as possible.

At least yesterday I caught my husband saying _when_ we get a big tank, not _if_ anymore... stage one of my master plan complete! :wink:


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

scolley said:


> Agreed. I assume everyone makes little "tweaks" here and there. But if a tank is has already been laid out, and is growing in, and a major change is made, it seems it could be for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1) Inspiration - realizing that something else will be even _better_
> 2) Mood - changing your mind about what you want
> ...


So Scolley, I'm trying to figure this out. Are you a psychologist, a philosopher, a writer, or all of the above? This is stuff my mother could be proud of, and she's a writer/ English professor. Seriously though, this is a great post. Looking at things from a larger perspective is important, and as a "hopeful" myself, I'm glad to be reading this and getting a better understanding of this hobby that seems to be taking up all of my brain power every day. (as I type from my keyboard at WORK!!) 

Just wanted to say I'm really enjoying the discussion, and hopefully one day I'll have some valuable input.


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## Roser (Jan 13, 2008)

I'm still at least one foot in the hopeful category. Soon soon (ok, soon being in the next few months...) I will be setting up a tank that will test if I have reached informed yet.

For me, an aquascape is evolved. I am a gardener at heart, so have a soft spot for the 'duke it out' method mentioned earlier. I love waiting things out to see what emerges. I think pictures fail miserably at capturing some truely breathtaking aquascapes due purely to the lack of motion, while other scapes can be viewed in all the stillness of a photo without loss of character. Mostly though, I feel like overly planned scapes, while beautiful, are built with the expectation that they will be broken down and started over very shortly after achieving (or failing ot achieve) the vision and plan.

One of my favorite lessons from my favorite scapes is that you can often do more with less. Particularly less species of plants / fish.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

fastfreddie said:


> Just wanted to say I'm really enjoying the discussion, and hopefully one day I'll have some valuable input.


From the sounds of things, that'll be soon!:thumbsup:

And while my title or job is somewhat irrelevent, I do find that the key skills that I bring to my work are being a pretty good analyst, and having a facility with the written word. Perfect for posting!



Roser said:


> One of my favorite lessons from my favorite scapes is that you can often do more with less. Particularly less species of plants / fish.


Ain't that the truth! I KNOW that, yet I still continue to mess up by over doing it. But _less _IS _more _with many art forms, planted tanks being one.


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## Hover408 (Jun 18, 2008)

ty for this topic i am in the planning stages of my 180 gallon. its bare to the bone just has subtrate in it. ive tried many layouts but none seem to be too natural.. i guess its trial and error for me


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## sadistic-otaku (Feb 2, 2008)

I personally like to draw out rough sketches of what I'd like my tank to look like. It's hard to move plants around after everything has grown in (or I just have less motivation)


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