# Frustrated with my High Tech Setup



## owens81jw (Feb 7, 2009)

ARE U dosing your tank?


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## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

I feel your pain. I got tired of my hi-tech setup and dumped all of it for a blackwater setup. Much easier to maintain, although it doesn't look as awesome as a hi-tech setup. 

Depending on the plants you have, you might be better off selling/trading them for low-tech plants. I don't have any experience with the BuildMYLEDs, so hopefully someone else will be of better use.


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

owens81jw said:


> ARE U dosing your tank?


Yes I am dosing with PPS-Pro, purchased ferts. from GLA and using his calculator.

Last tank I had I just had medium light, and fish and my plants did OK, nothing amazing but the fish were very happy.

Now with this new tank, I started the same way, my plants struggled but the fish were still happy.

Then I added the CO2, and the plants blew up, looked awesome for a little while… then hit with BBA.

So I cleaned up the BBA, and started dosing with PPS… not a huge change, then got GSA. Cleaned up the GSA and now my CO2 tank is depleted and dumped into the tank… I am frantically doing a huge WC to ensure my fish stay happy…

A high tech tank seems counter productive at least for me, I am in the hobby to see the fish, not fertilize plants at the risk of killing fish. (Obviously this is my opinion and it is extreme right now because of my frustration) I would love nothing more to see a beautiful planted tank with happy fish.


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

*My Fish*:
7x Clown Loaches
2x Cory
2x Cardinal Tetra
1x Gold Barb
3x Angels
2x Gouramis
5x Otos

*My Plants*:
Crypts
Swords
Anacharis (Can hardly keep this alive for some odd reason)
Anubias
Eleocharis (Usually covered in hair algae)


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

The biggest burden with high tech is the initial balancing act. That being said, I feel your pain.

Sounds like your co2 is the primary problem, how is it setup? 

If you go low tech sounds like your going to have to raise your lighting or dim it.

Also what is your photo period?

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## MiSo (Oct 26, 2005)

when i dosed with pps pro, i ran into lots of bba issues myself.

i'm starting a new tank and i'm trying the ei method this time.


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

NWA-Planted said:


> The biggest burden with high tech is the initial balancing act. That being said, I feel your pain.
> 
> Sounds like your co2 is the primary problem, how is it setup?
> 
> ...


CO2 is a high pressure setup, inline atomic diffuser on return line from one of my Eheim's. I turn the CO2 on 1 hour before the lights turn on and turn the CO2 off 1 hour before the lights go off.

Photo period is 8 hours.


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

You definitely need to look into a needle valve for better control, also it will help alleviate the end of tank issue somewhat. Might invest in a solenoid to remove some of the manual on off work.

Is your regulator a single or dual stage?

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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

NWA-Planted said:


> You definitely need to look into a needle valve for better control, also it will help alleviate the end of tank issue somewhat. Might invest in a solenoid to remove some of the manual on off work.
> 
> Is your regulator a single or dual stage?
> 
> Sent from... The BEYOND via tapatalk


Sorry for the HUGE lack of detail on my part.

I have a solenoid controlled via an Apex Jr. for timing.
I have a bubble counter, needle valve, and it is single stage.

Here is my regulator:
http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-regulators/primo-co2-regulator.html


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

here is what my 55 used to look like (its tore down due to moving) not a singer fert or co2. miracle grow organic potting mix 1.5 inches deep with a pool filter sand cap 1.5 inches deep and a shop light with 2 GE daylight bulbs from walmart. low tech can be quite nice.


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

Lol, I just didn't want to assume you had those things.

That is weird.. Maybe try the ei dosing vs what your doing now. The only other thing I can figure, is you just have to much light

Saw your other thread about taking out your eco complete, that might be worth a try, but I would do that last

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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

NWA-Planted said:


> Lol, I just didn't want to assume you had those things.
> 
> That is weird.. Maybe try the ei dosing vs what your doing now. The only other thing I can figure, is you just have to much light
> 
> ...


Thanks, that said with too much light, what is the best way to fix it…
Raise the light up or shorten the light period?

I might add root tabs soon to see if they helps before pulling out the EC.


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

Raise it, or put some screen in between the light and tank. Generally I have always just raised it. If your led you is dimmable that would be easiest

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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

My low tech, MGOPM capped with blasting grit.

3 20 watt cfl and a LED just for better fish color. No CO2 of any kind.

View attachment 178281


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

dprais1 said:


> My low tech, MGOPM capped with blasting grit.
> 
> 3 20 watt cfl and a LED just for better fish color. No CO2 of any kind.
> 
> View attachment 178281


Where did you get the blasting grit?
Could I cap MGOPM with my Eco-Complete to ease the transition?


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## chocological (Nov 13, 2012)

I think eco complete is mostly inert lava rock or something. You surely could use it to cap dirt.


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

chocological said:


> I think eco complete is mostly inert lava rock or something. You surely could use it to cap dirt.


That might be my best bet… thinking about taking the top 1/4" of EC off, saving it in tank water. Pulling out plants and doing a hydrogen peroxide or bleach bath, trashing rest of the EC.

Before I bring in the MGOPM I would do a fish less cycle in a brand new rubber made garbage can. Dropping some stability and fish food in there to start the process.

Then bring it all together MGOPM with EC cap and re-plant with some high light plants.

How does that sound for a plan of attack? I will still use half my EC, and leverage the nutrient base of MGOPM, without causing a huge cycle.

Thanks,
Ron


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## chocological (Nov 13, 2012)

Sounds like more trouble incoming to me, hehe.


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

chocological said:


> Sounds like more trouble incoming to me, hehe.


Agreed, trouble incoming with a huge shift for sure.

I might start with high light faster growing plants first. Stabilize the tank, and then look into an improved substrate.

I want to invest some time and get it right, maybe my frustration is causing rash decisions and I realize that. So starting with fast growing light hungry plants is a good start.

Maybe reduce photo period to 6 hours, and add the dimmer to my Apex Jr.

R


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

blasting grit I got from Menards. 

don't understand why you would want to bleach everything and start over?

The tank and h2o2 the plants sure...but the filter media should be fine and then you would be cycled already at least for a small bio load


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

dprais1 said:


> blasting grit I got from Menards.
> 
> don't understand why you would want to bleach everything and start over?
> 
> The tank and h2o2 the plants sure...but the filter media should be fine and then you would be cycled already at least for a small bio load


How about this for blasting grit? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200612035_200612035

I would only be bleaching the plants, but h2o2 will be my starting point. I want to get rid of the BBA.

Two Eheim 2217 filters that are mature plus using the old eco might keep the cycle to a minimum.

If I go the dirt route, I would do a 70% water change weekly for a month, then scale back to 50% a month.


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## VJM (Feb 9, 2013)

Your plant list seems to be all slow growers. Before you reboot, maybe try planting heavily with fast growing stems and see if that helps clean up your algae issues.


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

VJM said:


> Your plant list seems to be all slow growers. Before you reboot, maybe try planting heavily with fast growing stems and see if that helps clean up your algae issues.


I am going to try and find some of the following:


Rotala
Hygrophila
Ludwigia
Baby Tears


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Adjustment and correction can save your current setup and avoid a new cycle. Increase plant density and diverify to add fast growers and floaters. Stay with pps pro. Converting to EI now would be a mistake given the surplus in nutrients in the water column triggering bba.

Stick with the current lamp but elevate to deintensity the light. 

The eotd is not the end of the world but it will take effort to clean up. Its one reason one keeps tabs on a single stage regulator.

What is the water change schedule? If this isn't done weekly, it may be best to do this weekly until the algae growth stabilized. Algae won't go away on its own so treatment will be necessary. Follow darkcobras two punch thread for details here. It works! Good luck.


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

ronaldvalente said:


> How about this for blasting grit? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200612035_200612035
> 
> I would only be bleaching the plants, but h2o2 will be my starting point. I want to get rid of the BBA.
> 
> ...



You want this http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200022824_200022824
-you need to search this site to make sure that is the right grit size.

For your WC think you have a good plan. I would just caution you to realize that for that first week or two you may have to do more water changes to eliminate any tannins, or add purigen. And I do weekly or 2x a week wc so I don't have a frame of reference for monthly waterchanges, just be open too more often in the second month if needed


setting it up well and capping it well is key. I don't have straight MGOPM, mine is mixed with minerilized top soil...


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

acitydweller said:


> Adjustment and correction can save your current setup and avoid a new cycle. Increase plant density and diverify to add fast growers and floaters. Stay with pps pro. Converting to EI now would be a mistake given the surplus in nutrients in the water column triggering bba.
> 
> Stick with the current lamp but elevate to deintensity the light.
> 
> ...



You know what, I agree. I would try to save the current set up if algae is the only problem and if you LIKE the high tech, some love it and some don't.
I see people modifying cars all the time with fancy bells and whistles and they love all that stuff. I just see another car getting people to the grocery store or work...

So if you like your high tech then just work to fix it, make low tech the last resort. but it is an option and can look lush too.

AND, about every 2-3 months I get some staghorn starting to re-infest my tank. I perform the h2o2 part of darkcobra's 1-2 punch and that solves the problem for the next few months. So low-tech can have algae too, I just don't let it get bad before I treat.


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

I am going to start trying to salvage the setup. That said, the idea of CO2-less setup and still looking lush is really quite appealing to me.

I might just doing a red clay/crushed coral/MGOPM in a rubbermaid and start the fish less cycle. That way, if I want to do a reboot I could without worrying about harming the fish.


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

my personal experience when I tried to cap pre-soaked mgopm I ended up with a disaster. capping it dry was soooo much easier and water was clean, brownish but without a bunch of floaty stuff, by comparisson


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Before you completely tear down the tank you took time, effort, passion and money to build try a few things first. Stop your pps dosing, regulate your CO2, raise/dim/change your lights by either changing bulbs, photoperiod or both. 

Then comes the manual removal of the BBQ.

You might find your tap water has enough nitrate, phosphates etc to satisfy your nutrient needs if you are not using RO water. Also, you might have a larger bio load that will help with not requiring to dose.

I hope this helps with some insight before you tear down your pride and joy.


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## 57770 (Nov 14, 2012)

Good point… I don't use RO, I use filtered city water or tap water, depending on the source. I will keep that in mind.

I will be removing the high pressure check valve as that requires the system to run at 50 PSI which is why so much CO2 dumped into the tank.

As far as PPS, I have stopped for now. Planning on going to my LFS to grab some high light fast growth plants tomorrow.

I will manually remove all BBA and clean off any GSA.

I will also be getting a dimmer for my light but for now I will be running it full power for 6 hours each day, to see where that gets me.

Going to start there, and determine my next step.
I will report back to this thread in a weeks time or less.

Thanks again to all!


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

I would tweak your co2 and lights before putting back in the fertilizers. Your tap water and bio load could suffice in the mean time. 

If you don't get the co2 and lights right first, you will still be battling algae regardless of your ferts.


Just my opinion mate.


Cheers


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## wheatiesl337 (Mar 30, 2011)

I do agree that this tank should be salvageable without completely re-doing it. The only thing I havn't seen discussed here so far is PAR data. Have you looked into getting PAR readings for your set-up (borrow, buy, DIY a meter)? That could give you a lot of information on your lights and help inform your other decisions regarding the tank. Otherwise, knowing how much to raise/dim the lights can be just pure guess-work. 

Low-tech set-ups work best when planned out well from the start. Don't rush into it. If you decide to do low-tech, I would strongly recommend looking into the dry start methold (DSM).


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## chrisuf2000 (Jun 15, 2013)

on your suggestion for getting some fast growing "clean up" plants, what might those be? Is that like anacharis and/or hornwort?



VJM said:


> Your plant list seems to be all slow growers. Before you reboot, maybe try planting heavily with fast growing stems and see if that helps clean up your algae issues.


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## pantherspawn (Dec 21, 2011)

chrisuf2000 said:


> on your suggestion for getting some fast growing "clean up" plants, what might those be? Is that like anacharis and/or hornwort?


Yes, exactly. Stem plants grow faster than rooted, and get their nutrients from the water column not from soil. They will out compete algae for those same nutrients and help keep the balance of the tank.


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## jbrady33 (Jun 7, 2012)

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but some floaters wouldn't hurt - soak up nutrients fast and black some light. I've only had experience with frogbit, but there are many others. I wouldn't recommend duckweed - getting rid of that was a nightmare!


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

Yea lower the amount of light you are using and try to maintain CO2 at stable levels. This will help. Additional plants that are healthy that you can just float for a few weeks will help soak up nutrients and turn the favor back to the plants rather than the algae.


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