# Dissolved Organic Carbon Sump?



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

I started my first dirted tank recently, and it's got me thinking about Diana Walstad. Unfortunately, I loaned out my copy of Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, but I remember that she talked a lot about letting organic matter decompose in one's aquarium in order to increase dissolved carbon. In natural freshwater systems, where pressurized tanks of carbon dioxide hooked up to $150 glass diffusers are quite rare, this is how aquatic plants get most of their CO2. 

What do you guys think about creating a sump which flowed tank water through a series of panels that contained decomposing organic matter? Obviously it couldn't be just anything - you would have to find some media which would leach lots of carbon, but would not increase other nutrient levels too high. Dried leaves? Wood mulch? I'm not sure. Let me know if you have any ideas!


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

And if I add oak leaves in the tank, a lot of them.

They will decompose and their decomposition will produce CO2. Problem is that it can also produce ammonia and their is a danger of algae bloom?

I am experiencing this right now.

Michel.


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

There's an old thread where someone used decomposing wood chips to add co2 to his low tech tank. The only things you would have to worry about is supply enough oxygen to the microbes that break down the wood chips, dealing with the tannins, and dealing with possible algae from all the free floating DOC floating around the tank. I kept it simple and I loaded up my dirt substrate with different sources of organic material which in turn breaks down at different rates.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

There can be a lot of CO2 in natural bodies of water, not from decomposition of leaves, but from spring water feeding the body of water. And, many of our aquatic plants originate in that kind of body of water. A lot of other aquatic plants live half their lives as emergent plants, getting CO2 from the air.

Our aquariums don't even approach duplicating the natural environment for plants. Instead, we try to provide a good environment for the plants we want to see growing, so they will look like we want them to.


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## JoeRoun (Dec 21, 2009)

*Natural CO2*

Aerating any tank increase the CO2.

The more mature the tank the better, external filters diminish this. 

In a sense filtering devices are in competition with our tanks for resources, particularly in the beginning this is useful to get a quicker start on populating the aquaria.

Arguably as our tanks mature particularly if we have healthy plants, mosses, even a little stable algae is helpful. Folks with substrates deeper than 5-cm (2”) tend to benefit the most. Adding stainless steel scrubbers in out of the way places under rock piles (ensuring water movement though), adding cheap ceramic filter media are helpful.

I do not really like adding organic material especially while running external filtration due to the risk of buildup of total organic carbon (TOC) the tank may not be able to sustain. 

The critters will grow and filter the water while providing our plants lovely CO2.

Joe
FBTB


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

Found the thread http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=664418&highlight=wood


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## JoeRoun (Dec 21, 2009)

*No External Filtration*

I would note that in the example, longlywalker, is using no external filtration in a very heavily planted tank, external filtration, nutrient export is all via the plants.

As Plantbrain notes the process of breaking down the wood itself requires oxidation.

I think longlywaker is mistaking increased (effectively) bio-filtration to breakdown the wood that would have been as easily and more safely accomplished by natural increase in saprophytic critters along with increased aeration.

While I can see an immediate boost I would like to have seen further posts further testing, that was apparently longlywalkers final posts.

Joe
FBTB


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

The original poster in that thread added wood chips to his filter basket. What else what in his filter I don't know but he did use an external form of filtration.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Wow, thanks for the all the information guys! As soon as I'm done putting my aquaponics project together, I'm going to set my sump up with wood chips.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

I am looking at other ways to add Carbon.

I have a pressurized CO2 system but getting CO2 filled in Quebec city : There is one place, it costs 50$ to refill a 10lbs tank. It's only open on week days from 9-17h, and I have to go there twice, one to leave the CO2 tank, another one 2-4 days later to grab the tank filled. I almost have to take halfdays off my work to do this, not very practical.

I did add 5 large oak leaves lately in my 65G tank and ludwigia repens already look more red.
I also dose glutaraldehyde 2X the dose, i have a good plant mass, plenty of fast growing plants.

I have a canister filter Eheim 2217. I plan to add an Hydor Koralia pump to add water circulation because it looks like there is a spot on the forefront/right where water current is low, plants growing slower there with some algae.

Michel.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

I am looking at other ways to add Carbon. I am not looking at having 30ppm though.

I have a pressurized CO2 system but getting CO2 filled in Quebec city : There is one place, it costs 50$ to refill a 10lbs tank. It's only open on week days from 9-17h, and I have to go there twice, one to leave the CO2 tank, another one 2-4 days later to grab the tank filled. I almost have to take halfdays off my work to do this, not very practical.

I did add 5 large oak leaves lately in my 65G tank and ludwigia repens already look more red.
I also dose glutaraldehyde 2X the dose, i have a good plant mass, plenty of fast growing plants.

I have a canister filter Eheim 2217. I plan to add an Hydor Koralia pump to add water circulation because it looks like there is a spot on the forefront/right where water current is low, plants growing slower there with some algae.

Michel.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Bacteria produces the CO2. Decomposition is the effect of bacteria munching on the organics.

There's a balance. Adding more organics will also add more NH3/4 and non-oxidizing bacteria, meaning your tank will smell like a swamp.



JoeRoun said:


> Aerating any tank increase the CO2.


Aerating just equalizes it with the air's CO2 faster which is not enough for underwater plants. CO2 ppm in air is measure by volume, ppm in water in by weight. Air has around 400-700ppm which is only around 2-4ppm in water.


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

micheljq said:


> I am looking at other ways to add Carbon.
> 
> I have a pressurized CO2 system but getting CO2 filled in Quebec city : There is one place, it costs 50$ to refill a 10lbs tank. It's only open on week days from 9-17h, and I have to go there twice, one to leave the CO2 tank, another one 2-4 days later to grab the tank filled. I almost have to take halfdays off my work to do this, not very practical.
> 
> ...


It's probably the double dose of glut that's helping your Ludwigia look more red and not the 5 oak leaves.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Monster Fish said:


> It's probably the double dose of glut that's helping your Ludwigia look more red and not the 5 oak leaves.


I was dosing double dose since more than a month already, and i did not see a change.

Michel.

Bump:


mistergreen said:


> There's a balance. Adding more organics will also add more NH3/4 and non-oxidizing bacteria, meaning your tank will smell like a swamp.


I am not the first person adding oak leaves, some add a lot more than me, yet they do not have any issues.

I will try to find a balance. I think I can add more without having issues, of course there must be a limit where I can have algae issues or other kind of issues.

Also I do regular water changes. That should alleviate somewhat.

Michel.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

micheljq said:


> I am not the first person adding oak leaves, some add a lot more than me, yet they do not have any issues.


I'm not talking about a little oak leaves. I'm referring to a tank full of wood chips.


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