# Looking for help, BBA everywhere :(



## FishFan13 (Jan 15, 2015)

Try this to kill everything and then fix what caused the issue in the first place

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=203684


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

FishFan13 said:


> Try this to kill everything and then fix what caused the issue in the first place
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=203684



I don't understand the dosage, what the author means by "add 4 tbsp of h2o2" ?

I might have some h2o2 in my house, the one that sell the pharmacy.

I would like to know the ML of this treatment , thanks a lot !

And also, I do not know which is the cause that caused the BBA >.< maybe lights ?


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## FishFan13 (Jan 15, 2015)

The dose was changed to 2 Tbs(about 30ml)

H2O2 is just Hydrogen peroxide

I would try to raise the lights so you get better coverage and so the par level will go down.


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

Ok tomorrow I will do the treatment, 
On the bottle it says oxygenated water 3%, I think I can use it

do u think that raising lights to 15 cm is enough? (It is at 7/8 cm now)


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

I would increase water changes to 50% per week minimum, and decrease your lighting. I think that very low phosphate now will hinder your plants, try and keep it around 2ppm.


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## Christophe (Oct 23, 2013)

I think it's too much light for too long a time in a tank 40cm tall -- you might be able to remove 2 of your tubes, and shorten to 6 hours until you get your plants growing better than the algae.

When things are better, you might be able to go to 3 tubes, but also raise the fixture. I'd not do a photoperiod more than 8 hours even under the best circumstances.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

What did you use to calculate your dosage amounts?


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## caique (Mar 16, 2012)

I have a 25 gallon with a Zoomed light with 2 T5 ho's 24 watts each.

I run the light for 8 hours a day.

No Co2

And I dose dry ferts 1/32 teaspoon Nitrate
1/32 tsp phosphate and 1/32 tsp potassium sulfate on water change day which is about 65% because this tank is full of little baby plecos probably 40 right now but the numbers go up and down because I sell them. Also have several hundred Cherry shrimp. Day after water change I dose Micros 1/32 tsp, I also dose Seachem Liquid Iron on days that I dose Micros, generally just twice a week though the bottle I believe says dose 1 ML per gallon I dose around 15 ML twice a week.

So I dose Macros 3 times a week and Micros 3 times a week then wait a day and do another water change.

Tank is full of plants and thriving, also have a Eheim 2026 for lots of flow, pump output is 251 gph

If I were you with a tank so small I would just trim all plants with any algae, they should come back just fine. Start dosing dry ferts, depending on stock you could definitely dose double nitrate, (1/16) or up to (1/8 ) teaspoon.

Stop running the other 2 bulbs just run the 6500's

Try to keep your Phosphates at about 10% or your Nitrates, so if your nitrates are 10 your phosphates should be no higher than 1.


Not sure why you use these, salts from seachem to reinstablish natural values of the tank. (Seachem equilibrium and seachem alkaline buffer)
I never use this stuff. 

I use tap water that is dechlorinated with Prime, my water change is about 15 gallons per week on a 25. I put 2 gallons of RO ( Reverse Osmosis) in the 15 that I change. For no real reason it just works and that's the way I have been doing it for years.

I would definitely bump up your water changes to 50% a week. Plants love water changes.

If you were my neighbor I would just give you a bunch of free plants.

Hope this helps.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Holy smokes. That's some pretty healthy BBA. Probably not what you want to hear. Anyway, ditto to all the comments before me. Too much light would be the main culprit, but at the same time "too much light" is relative to the co2 you have. You claim to have 30ppm. How are you measuring this? By drop checker only? Your 4dkh drop checker solution may be off and giving you green before its 30ppm. There's a few other methods to check for co2. You can find a couple here.. http://www.theaquatools.com/co2-calculations. However, no matter which method you use, it's not super accurate and is prone to problems that affect the reading. For real accuracy, you really need a pretty expensive co2 meter. Since that's not a reality, you can only strive to have as much co2 as possible without killing the fish by using surface agitation to match your light or cutting down the light until it sort of matches the co2 you have. In addition, how are you actually getting the co2 into the water? Diffuser? Reactor? With a decent sized tank, a diffuser may not be as efficient as a reactor with regards to getting the co2 mixed in. 

Unfortunately, BBA that's been established will not easily disappear on its own even if you have the right balance of co2/lights/fertilizers. That's what makes it even harder to figure out. So you'll have to kill it using various methods mentioned above, or just cut the bad leaves off. But be careful with the 1-2 punch if you value your fish. What you have to look at is the new growth to see if they're getting infected fast or not. That way, you'll know if the plants are doing good or not. Plants that are not doing good or old leaves pretty much invite BBA (and other algae). If the new growth of plants is fending off BBA, then you've gained something. Either way, I wanted to point out that you should look into your co2 situation more carefully in addition to all of the above.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

It's not a fix, but if you can find a real, actual siamese algae eater, I had good luck with them cleaning up the little BBA I had (also lots of hair and staghorn). In that size tank one at most, and it is a bit small even then (they are not so much large but very fast and active, aggressive eaters, but they do not bother other fish).

At least in the US it is very hard to know whether you are getting real ones, or fakes (fakes = flying fox, chinese algae eaters, and a few others). But I've had very good luck with them cleaning up all sorts of algae.

Again... not a fix -- you need to find the cause. But they can help with the symptoms.


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

Double post


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

Double post


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

dru said:


> What did you use to calculate your dosage amounts?


It's a Microsoft Excel file that is basically a 4 cycles dosing /week on a 2/3 ratio over seachem recemmended doses. (For example excel is a 5/4 dose but flourish comprehensive is just 2/4 dose, in the end it is basically a 2/3 fertilization schedule, nothing fancy at all :wink:



caique said:


> I have a 25 gallon with a Zoomed light with 2 T5 ho's 24 watts each.
> 
> I run the light for 8 hours a day.
> 
> ...


I will try to do a 50% water change every week or two, it isn't easy because i have to buy RO water at my LFS. My tap water is just horrible, it has no2, phos, silicates, 21 kh and 26 gh if i remember correctly, that's why i use salts from seachem, i just remineralize RO water to make sure i don't have any problem in the tank water.

Today i have also modified my lighting unit. 
Nowit is set to 7.30 hours with just two 24 watt 6500 kelvin tubes, and the light covers all the tank area. (Previously my tubess weren't symmetrical so i just modified them to have the position i wanted.)

I also removed my Rowa phos resin, and i hope my phos value goes up by his own, otherwise i should dose some phos, maybe from flourish comprehensive ? Anyway i think i will just wait a week before adding any phos.

And thank you for the kindness, i would love some of your plants but i think there are more than 2000 miles from my house to yours ahahah



ipkiss said:


> Holy smokes. That's some pretty healthy BBA. Probably not what you want to hear. Anyway, ditto to all the comments before me. Too much light would be the main culprit, but at the same time "too much light" is relative to the co2 you have. You claim to have 30ppm. How are you measuring this? By drop checker only? Your 4dkh drop checker solution may be off and giving you green before its 30ppm. There's a few other methods to check for co2. You can find a couple here.. http://www.theaquatools.com/co2-calculations. However, no matter which method you use, it's not super accurate and is prone to problems that affect the reading. For real accuracy, you really need a pretty expensive co2 meter. Since that's not a reality, you can only strive to have as much co2 as possible without killing the fish by using surface agitation to match your light or cutting down the light until it sort of matches the co2 you have. In addition, how are you actually getting the co2 into the water? Diffuser? Reactor? With a decent sized tank, a diffuser may not be as efficient as a reactor with regards to getting the co2 mixed in.
> 
> Unfortunately, BBA that's been established will not easily disappear on its own even if you have the right balance of co2/lights/fertilizers. That's what makes it even harder to figure out. So you'll have to kill it using various methods mentioned above, or just cut the bad leaves off. But be careful with the 1-2 punch if you value your fish. What you have to look at is the new growth to see if they're getting infected fast or not. That way, you'll know if the plants are doing good or not. Plants that are not doing good or old leaves pretty much invite BBA (and other algae). If the new growth of plants is fending off BBA, then you've gained something. Either way, I wanted to point out that you should look into your co2 situation more carefully in addition to all of the above.


I just finished my 1-2 punch treatment, took me all night long, more than 4 hours, but i had everything on schedule and i calculated every dose extremely precise.

Regarding my co2, i use a dropchecker with new liquid solution in it (6 days old solution), and i also estimate my co2 dissolution in water by comparing ph to kh on the famous tab.

Anyway fishes are ok, i don't see any strange behavior, i might be able to bump up co2 a little, but i will probably just wait for your suggestion and do not let my hand adjust the needle valve :wink:

My injection method is a small atomizer and there are no big bubbles going up on the surface, it produces tiny little blubbles , kinda "smokish", that are sucked into my Hydor koralia nano 900Lt/h and pushed all over the tank.

I added the koralia more for the extra flow than to increase co2 dissolution (which is already perfect i think), i just wanted more circulation all around the tank.

I didn't know about BBA loving old leaves, i will definitely look for new leaves and their behavior with BBA, maybe they grow normally 


Linwood said:


> It's not a fix, but if you can find a real, actual siamese algae eater, I had good luck with them cleaning up the little BBA I had (also lots of hair and staghorn). In that size tank one at most, and it is a bit small even then (they are not so much large but very fast and active, aggressive eaters, but they do not bother other fish).
> 
> At least in the US it is very hard to know whether you are getting real ones, or fakes (fakes = flying fox, chinese algae eaters, and a few others). But I've had very good luck with them cleaning up all sorts of algae.
> 
> Again... not a fix -- you need to find the cause. But they can help with the symptoms.


I had 2 SAE before, i studied about the species and the morphology, i was 100% sure there were legit SAE, but as far as i saw, my angelfishes were much more interested in eating algae than those SAE, and as you know angelfishes aren't the best algae eater ahah:tongue:


Today i also crafted 2 metal hooks that i will attach to my stand in order to be able to raise my lighting unit. I'll post some pics when i am done with them.

Here is an overall pic after water change and 1-2 punch method.

BBa seems much more gray than usual. I hope they die in a matter of days, and i also hope i won't have any ammonia strikes because i will leave in a day and i can't monitor the tank from saturday afternoon to monday evening.

I think that's pretty much it, and this is also the 3rd time i write this post because stupid tapatalk is just saying "post sent correctly" and then i cannot see any reply on the topic, i lost more than an hour writing this down for the 3rd time ahahah.

Sorry again for my English i am trying to do my best and thanks a lot to all of you for your help and suggestions, those are really precious !


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

I cannot post anything on the forum quoting someone or with a picture in the post, dont know why, i have tried more than 3 times and spent more than 2 hours, who do I need to contact to solve this problem ?

Anyway I will just try to answer without quoting anyone.

I have modified my lighting unit, now I have two 24 watt 6500 k tubes, turned ON for 7.30 hours that covers all the tank area, now it is perfect, (Previously the tubes weren't symmetrical so by leaving just two tubes ON I had light just on the right or left side of the tank.)don't know if I have to change the tubes tho, maybe they are a little old? I bought them last November .

I will try to do atleat a 50% water change every week or two. It is not easy because I have to buy RO water at my LFS, and I use seachem salts to rimeneralize it because my tap water is just full of crap, no2 phos silicate 21 kh and so on.

I have also removed my rowa phos resin, I hope my phos value now goes up on his own, otherwise I may need to reintegrate it, maybe with flourish comprehensive ? 

Regarding co2 my drop checker has new liquid in it. And I also estimate the amount of co2 I have by looking at the ph-kh tab.

I use an atomizer for co2 diffusion, it produces tiny little bubbles that seem like smoke, they are then sucked into my koralia nano and pushed all over the tank. Actually there are no bubbles going up and popping on the surface, so I can say my co2 dissolution is very good !

My fishes are ok with it, so I might be able to bump it up a little bit, maybe until I see some yellowish color on the DC.

I also crafted two hooks that I will attach to my stand, this way I will be able to raise the lighting unit as I want, I will post picture when I am done with the project.

Finished also my 1-2 punch method. Took me all night long but I had everything on schedule and calculated every dose extremely precise. I am pretty much happy with the results, water was cloudy but because of the salts of the water change, most of the bba seems to be different, not a blackish color, more like a light gray now, I hope they die in a matter of days because I cannot monitor the tank from tomorrow until Monday, I hope I won't have any ammonia strikes when I am away.

Regarding last post, I had 2 SAE, I studied the species and the morphology, I was 100% sure they were legit SAE, but actually I failed, they didn't touch a single algae , even my angelfishes were much more interested in algae than those SAE were.

Anyway thank you all once again, your help and suggestions are really really precious to me !!!


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

Add some floating plants


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Okedokey said:


> Add some floating plants


I'm not disagreeing with you at all, as I have no clue, but can you elaborate? 

Is it that they grow fast and absorb excess nutrients, is it that they block some light, is it.... ? 

I.e. why?


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

I suggest co2 on time to set 3-4h before lights. Off 1-2h before lights. And crank it up a bit. 
Measure ph through day and adjust co2 on/off times to get minimum ph variation through whole photoperiod.


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

Ok I will try to adjust co2 as you suggestued.

By the way BBA is for sure gray and not black, but there is no actual sign of death, they seem ok [emoji27] , I wait some more days, then I will repeat I think .


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## Rushis (Mar 17, 2015)

Grey is a good start for killing it off. 

I'm surprised that spot treating with Excel didn't have impact. I have had good luck with spot treating Clado and BBA directly with Excel. I'm using 5 mL in my 40 L tank with the filter turned off. The Excel is placed directly on the algae using a syringe and leave the filter off for 20 minutes. 

Typically a single spot treatment kills the bulk of the BBA and clado within 3 days. A second treatment followed by waiting a week usually finishes it off. 

Best of luck, we all understand the frustration.


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

Unfortunately my excel treatment did absolutely nothing, just a little bit reddish BBA appeared, but that's all...I wasn't even able to destroy BBa on a single leaf , just a portion of it [emoji20] so disappointing.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

V1peR said:


> Unfortunately my excel treatment did absolutely nothing, just a little bit reddish BBA appeared, but that's all...I wasn't even able to destroy BBa on a single leaf , just a portion of it [emoji20] so disappointing.


Red algae is dead algae in this case.

H2O2 is another possibility, that is converted quickly to water and O2 so you don't have to wait as long for it to be reused.


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

I already did the h2o2 treatment ! I was referring to the old excel treatment that was a fail.

I hope this h2o2 treatment works better, just passed the 24 h Mark after the treatment. Still no results


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## V1peR (Apr 1, 2015)

UPDATE

Most BBA are gone, there are still some on older leaves, I might shoot em with an h2o2 syringe...don't know yet.

The cause of my BBA explosion was the light, too much of it.

Since I have turned off 2 of the 4 T5 tubes, the situation started to get better.

At the moment I have only 2 tubes at 4 inches from the surface, according to PAR chart on a 16inches tall aquarium , I am at "high" light situation, am I right ?

Since I have finished my hooks for the lighting unit I might raise from 4 to 10 inches the lighting unit, so I will be able to use 4 tubes, and by doing this I will be able to use different kelvin rates instead of just 2 tubes 6500 kelvin, what is your opinion? Good idea or i just leave as it is now?


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## DavidZ (Nov 17, 2009)

Glad this are getting better, I am on the same page with caique. You just have to find a balance, the slow growing plants are very susceptible to algae.


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