# Which topsoil did you use to make MTS?



## switcharoo (Sep 5, 2010)

Miracle Grow Organic potting mix


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## Jim Miller (Dec 24, 2002)

I got plain old topsoil from TruValue Hardware. $2 per 40lb bag. I'm just starting now so I can't tell you how it will turn out but this was real topsoil and not a lot of sticks and peatmoss.

Real farmer's dirt. No manure smell just nice and earthy. Frankly I wish I had found this stuff this summer when I was doing lawn repair. It's nice.

Good luck

Jim


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

UGH, the soil (Sticks) i have is annoying the POOHHH out of me. I'm glad I didn't open the other bag. May just go back and find something else. like the organic potting mix.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

It's good, but to be honest. My dad was right... the sweet smell is ceder. EDIT::: the scotts premium smells like ceder.


I have time though.. this tank won't be up till mid JAN or later. I want this to be right.


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## Jim Miller (Dec 24, 2002)

You must have a TruValue somewhere in Raleigh?

Give it a try and get some "just plain soil" rather than another batch of "semi-soil." Here's a pic of one of my bags.

After 40 years of yard work I know wood chips and peat moss additives when I see them. This has none of that.

If you stick with it all of it will eventually decay. If you want to shorten the process then get the big chunks out by running through some 1/4" hardware cloth from the HW store.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

I have screen and stuff. I'm heading out of town tomorrow though. So, it'll have to wait until I get back. Then I'll check around. I think the truvalue's closed near me.


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## Jim Miller (Dec 24, 2002)

Looks like 4 location in Durham.

Good luck

Jim


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## Franco (Jun 13, 2010)

walmarts or any other store that sells garden/lawn stuff will also have plain top soil. Look for a bag that has a hole in it (or poke one yourself). It should just be black dirt. It should be $1-$2.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

So there shouldn't be many sticks or anything in it? I'm sort of confused on that. I'm not driving an hour to get soil. haha I'd have to find a closer location.


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## Jim Miller (Dec 24, 2002)

The only problem I found is that every discount/big box store seems to get rid of their seasonal growing stuff this time of year. TrueValue was the only place I could find any. Mine was frozen solid on a pallette out back.

Jim


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## Jim Miller (Dec 24, 2002)

There's bound to be some sticks in it. Just proceed with the mineralization through 4 cycles then sift out the remaining stuff after it's good and dry.

Good luck

Jim


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

People use all kinds of dirt for tanks. There arent many rules for getting it. It can be backyard dirt. What you want to avoid is any organic matter(sticks, neighbors cat, etc..). This is also the reason for multiple washes. If you have a screen sifter it will save you loads of time. I prefer wormstrate that I make myself but my second choice would be the back yard. Its cheaper and you know whats in it.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Yeah, I looked at the miracle grow organic potting mix, but it still has fertilizer in it. go figure. I'll keep looking I suppose. I can always just go to lowe's / home depot or other stores and poke a few holes 

hopefully mines not frozen..


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Closest location is right out back. 

Scrape away the plants (weeds, in my case) and scoop up a cup or so of soil. Maybe you have to dig a bit to get away from roots. 

Pack this into a jar with straight sides (1 pint to 1 quart canning jar works well)
Put a piece of tape vertically on the jar, and mark where the top of the soil is. 
Add water and a drop or two of dishwasher detergent (no bubbles)
Shake really well. 
Set the jar down and start watching a watch. 
At 30 seconds mark on the tape where the soil is. 
At 1 minute mark on the tape where the soil is. 
At 2 minutes mark on the tape where the soil is. 
In a couple of hours mark on the tape where the soil is. 

How to read the test results:
At 30 seconds almost all the sand has fallen out. 
At 1 minute all the sand has fallen out.
At 2 minutes all the silt has fallen out. 
At 2 hours all the useful clay has fallen out. 
Anything floating is organic matter- Sticks, roots, leaves... These are not much of a problem to remove when you mineralize the soil. 
If the water is only slightly colored, but you can pretty much see through it after 2 hours this is pretty good.
If the water in the jar is still murky the next day, give up. This soil has too much coloidal clay to work well in an aquarium. MAYBE mineralizing it will help, but I doubt it. 

Look at the percentages of sand, silt and clay. 
This is the amount at the 1 minute, 2 minute and 2 hour marks compared to the total amount of soil you started with.
Good soil for an aquarium will be mostly sand with just a little silt and less clay. 
Clay is very important. This is the material that holds the nutrients. High Cationic Exchange Capacity. But it is also hard for the plants to grow in it, hard for the water to move through it. 
Over 50% sand is good. 
No more than 20% silt, 10% clay. 

If there is a LOT of floaters then you might rake through your soil better when you collect it, sift it a couple of times when you start to prepare it, and be ready to skim it every time you re-wet it during the mineralization process. You might need to start with extra soil because you are throwing away quite a bit when there is this much organic matter in it.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Wow, thanks Ms. Diana (walstad?). I do have pretty good soil in my back yard, but it seems like it has quite a bit of sand, even though it's dark black. 

Would that still be okay?

I know that we don't use fertilizers anywhere on our yard, and neither do our neighbors, as we have a natural spring behind our house which also happens to be the same spring where our drinking water comes from.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Sandy dirt works good. And yes, Ms. Walstad it was.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Here's the image of what my first dig of dirt was. Suprisingly it was just inside the edge of the woods. Would that be a good source of dirt? There's plenty of it in that area. There's definitely no fertilizers or other stuff near here.


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## Nue (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm sure it will work out great for you. I mineralized some top soil I got from home depot and it had a lot of sticks in it. Its been in the tank for about 3 months, and im still having issues.
Cedar scares me, because cedar puts off some kind of chemical that prohibits other trees to grow. However that is not a proven fact that it will prohibit other tree's/plants from growing by using its mulch. I'm thinking of going to the back yard as well, or going to try out Diana's organic potting soil idea. Good Luck!


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks, any other people use dirt from their back yards with good results?


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## Franco (Jun 13, 2010)

Yep. I used prairie topsoil that probably hadn't seen the light of day in a 100 years. Next to my apartment complex, they excavated a narrow ditch to direct runnoff and in doing so they exposed really really old prairie topsoil. You could see the 15 inches of newer topsoil created by cold season ditch grasses on the surface, below that was a 4 inch band of leeched out subsoil, and then below that was the ancient prairie soil, 4 more feet down the old subsoil could be seen. I dug out a bunch of the prairie topsoil, mineralized it, and it works fantastic. The organic matter in it is broken down soooo much and it is just the right consistency. 
I was telling my soils professor about it and he was getting all excited about what I had found. In our field trips we went to other sites that had similar soil horizons and where erosion was super bad from broken tile lines, you could see that the old prairie topsoil was more than 10 feet thick in some places. We couldn't even find the old subsoil in those places. 10 feet of topsoil! That is at least 120 undisturbed years of topsoil put down by grass and we are letting it get washed away to the gulf of mexico.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Franco said:


> Yep. I used prairie topsoil that probably hadn't seen the light of day in a 100 years. Next to my apartment complex, they excavated a narrow ditch to direct runnoff and in doing so they exposed really really old prairie topsoil. You could see the 15 inches of newer topsoil created by cold season ditch grasses on the surface, below that was a 4 inch band of leeched out subsoil, and then below that was the ancient prairie soil, 4 more feet down the old subsoil could be seen. I dug out a bunch of the prairie topsoil, mineralized it, and it works fantastic. The organic matter in it is broken down soooo much and it is just the right consistency.
> I was telling my soils professor about it and he was getting all excited about what I had found. In our field trips we went to other sites that had similar soil horizons and where erosion was super bad from broken tile lines, you could see that the old prairie topsoil was more than 10 feet thick in some places. We couldn't even find the old subsoil in those places. 10 feet of topsoil! That is at least 120 undisturbed years of topsoil put down by grass and we are letting it get washed away to the gulf of mexico.


Wish I had that dirt. My area has only about 20 years worth of topsoil forming. They came through when my neighborhood was built and took a lot of the good rich dirt off the top. Lucky that you have that soil!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I used Scott's top soil for I live in city with foul air thus don't trust the dirt to not have toxins. I did sift the mulch out.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Hilde said:


> I used Scott's top soil for I live in city with foul air thus don't trust the dirt to not have toxins. I did sift the mulch out.



I was trying the scott's as well. But what I may do is dry it out completely. I may do the same thing. But there's a lot of much. Or I may just go dig dirt out of the yard, and replace it with the mulchy topsoil I have.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

I used worm castings. It has a nice consistency, and no sticks.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Where could iget them except not online ive never seen them...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

fishykid1 said:


> Where could iget them except not online ive never seen them...


You could make your own using the red worms used for fishing.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Red wigglers. Great creatures. Use 'em :icon_smil


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

defiesexistence said:


> Red wigglers. Great creatures. Use 'em :icon_smil


I've heard they're good for feeding as well? Is that true or no?

I'm trying to find a live food for my fish, especially angels in this 75G. Not everyday feeding, but every other day or couple days for a treat.


UPDATE: MTS is dried out completely for the 1st time on the second attempt. Seems like there's a lot of bark chips, still. I think it contains some ceder, which I'm worried about. But, I'm going to sift these out and with what is left, mix this with dirt from my backyard as the substrate. (will mineralize that as well)


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Regular earthworms are used as live food, and if red wigglers are eating nice chemical-free dirt, then, sure, great live food. I'd imagine they would have a lot of protien, and be more easily processed than beef heart.

Good idea to sift resinous wood out. With the minute amount of cedar likely in there, if you do miss a few sifting, I wouldn't worry terribly about it. The worms would take care of it too. I hope this batch continues to chug along well.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

This batch is chugging along quite well. I have the clay from school, thanks to my art teacher. I also have access to dolomitic limestone pellets used for lawns. just calcium and magnesium carbonates in it, so it should be fine. I also have some osmocote from a friend near me. Thanks Jason.

Dirt from my backyard is finished drying, and MAN it looks awfully like AS. Very fine texture and very nice and dark dirt when wet.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

And here it is! It's almost ready I think...
soil, dried from my back yard. and sifted with 1/8" window mesh. It looks yellowish, but that's because of the bulb. It has a nice dark grey color. 









This is what I sifted from the scott's topsoil. I got about 8-10 pounds out of the bag of very fine and loamy soil. It compacts very easy and I may have to add a bit of sand. The white dots are sand, not fertilizer.









I'm working on getting more dirt from my back yard as well as getting things together. Hope it goes well.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Sounds like you have quite a mixture going on. Sometimes this will work really well, other times the 2 materials do not blend well, and you end up with pockets of one or the other. 
Be sure to mix it really well to begin with. 

I have seen worm castings in the house plant section of some stores. Small bags, but that is all you want. Make sure you know what else might be in it. 

I am not Diana Walstad. My background is in horticulture, landscape and related things like soils, plant ID, pests and so on. 
I do landscape design.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Diana said:


> Sounds like you have quite a mixture going on. Sometimes this will work really well, other times the 2 materials do not blend well, and you end up with pockets of one or the other.
> Be sure to mix it really well to begin with.
> 
> I have seen worm castings in the house plant section of some stores. Small bags, but that is all you want. Make sure you know what else might be in it.
> ...



Awh man. Sorry about that. The 2 different soils are completely dry, so it shouldn't be a big deal to mix them. I may add a bit of clay and small amount of sand to this mixture. But I think I'm on the home stretch of this  I would definitely do this route again if I set another tank up as a planted. Hope the results will give me the same.


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## aman74 (Feb 19, 2007)

fishykid1 said:


> Awh man. Sorry about that. The 2 different soils are completely dry, so it shouldn't be a big deal to mix them. I may add a bit of clay and small amount of sand to this mixture. But I think I'm on the home stretch of this  I would definitely do this route again if I set another tank up as a planted. Hope the results will give me the same.


The clay is the most important part next to the soil itself so I wouldn't skip on that.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

OoglyBoogly has put red wigglers in his tank. They bury and give the fish something to do.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

fishykid1 said:


> I may add a bit of clay and small amount of sand to this mixture.


You could add some red bag kitty litter. It will increase the CAE. CAE is Cation Exchange Capacity is the ability of the medium to absorb cation ions, (minerals from fertilizers).


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