# ADA or Eco-Complete for Low Tech Puffer & Kuhli loach tank??



## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

ADA will be softer on their noses and soft bellies the tiny disturbance from the little fish will not be enough to bother the substrate.


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## Nbot (Apr 15, 2007)

eklikewhoa, thanks much for your feedback...

Well, I'm not so certain that it is minimal disturbances from the Kuhli's, I've seen them make little burrows and dens at the LFS, and from what I understand I need to have at least 3 of them so that they "wrestle" around w/ each other....do you really think the ADA will stay settled down w/ all this?

Also, good point about the softer-ness of the ADA, I had asked my LFS about the eco-complete for the Kuhli's and he didn't think it would be a problem, although I've never seen Eco in person only read about it online so I'm just assuming that it is softer than gravel so it would be fine?

Also, sorry but I answered another old thread last night about the new ADA Amazonia II, seems to contribute to this conversation, perhaps you'd care to let me know your thoughts?
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...quasoil-amazonia-ii-new-ada-3.html#post442391


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## Nbot (Apr 15, 2007)

I guess another issue I just thought of, is that if I'll be feeding the dwarf puffer's snails, that the Eco will be easier to clean up than the ADA won't it (snail shells etc, guess Puffers are messy...)


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

I'm not sure about ADA but I recently switched to eco in my puffer tank and just did my first cleaning yesterday. I didn't push into the substrate like I do with regular gravel. I just lightly touched the siphon to the top of the eco and it got most of the puffer *mess* out. So far, I'm very pleased with the eco.


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## Nbot (Apr 15, 2007)

Cah, thx, great to hear, sounds like Eco might be better for the messy puffers in that regards, what other tank mates do you have (trying to see if you have Kuhli's in there and if its soft enough...)


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

I siphon right over my aquasoil substrate as you would do any other substrate and it works fine....I do the same for my cichlid tanks and those have sand substrate so the soil won't be of a problem when it comes to cleaning.


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## Nbot (Apr 15, 2007)

FYI, had a few PM's w/ Eklikewhoa for any one else doing a search on ADA II and these issues...

Eklikewhoa,
Hello, sorry to bug you, but you seem like one of the few people that can answer my question and I really want to get the substrate ordered today so I can get the tank setup and cycled as a gift for my wife before she returns in 2 weeks...

I guess I am leaning towards the ADA II now, instead of Eco partly b/c of your comments, it seems the ADA II is going to be less troublesome for harder warder like mine, I really want to use it over Eco MAINLY b/c of the pH and kH lowering properties, I just want to double-confirm that you really don't think the Kuhli's will be kicking up a cloud-storm when they dig their little den's and wrestle around with each other?

Thanks for your time,
Nathan



> I have had Botia sidthimunki's in my tank which have AS substrate and they burrowed or nosed around all the time with no problems with "cloudiness". I have not used the AmazoniaII and from what everyone says it is better but I don't find the regular stuff that much of a hassle.....and keep in mind Seachem Purigen is the shizznit! the stuff will make anything crystal clear.
> 
> I personally would not mix substrates.....the smaller grains will make it's way to the bottom and after digging around in it the mixing looks like crap. Honestly I tried eco before AS absolutely hated it! The KH was High and it did nothing for pH also made my plants look like crap. The AS is by far better then Eco in my experience and with AS available I would never touch Eco again.....had better growth with inert sand then with Eco.
> 
> I have rocks coming out the tap and don't find the AS much trouble at all and by the 2wks it should be no problems at all.


Awesome, thanks much for the detailed reply, really I've been sold on the ADA II I want to minimize complications if possible....I really just was worried about the stuff getting kicked up, it seems good for the ph/kh, and seems most folks think its the superior plant substrate, plus it'll be soft on the Kuhli's...thanks for your help...Do you mind if I post your PM below in the last thread for anyone else that is doing a search? (not a problem)


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

I've used both EC and AS. My recommendation: if you intend to do a lot of gravel cleaning and/or tank rearranging, use EC. AS is significantly less dense than EC, and if you want to clean the muck from the gravel an inch down, you'll be sucking up all your substrate with it. AS is wonderful for plant growth, but not very functional as a standard gravel. EC has longevity/durability benefits at the cost of being not quite as good as AS for growing plants. Bottom line though - BOTH will grow plants and either would be fine for loaches to dig in. All depends on how you plan to treat your gravel.


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## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

I have Eco in one tank, Flourite in another, and Aquasoil in yet, another.

The flourite tank is the easiest to Vac.

I can also Vac the Eco tank with a Python: Shove into Substrate with pythond valve off, Turn on quickly, then back off befor eyou suck up substrate,Pull out Vac (level with substreate so gravel falls out), Click back on, Suck up gunk. This pulls all the crud out of the substreate without sucking any of it up.

Gravel Vac with Flourite is even easier, just shove into substreate.

All 3 tanks grow plants but I could not grow ground cover in the Flourite (Well actualy I did but my Brigs dug it up because the algae wafer fell in the gravel) LOL. Really though Elatin Triandra looked cool in flourite if you don't have diggers.

I do not gravel vac the AS tank, it's a PITA and you crush the soil when pressing into it (or so it seems), youc an lightly vac the top from time to time, but I'm trying to grow ground cover in that one anyways.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Nbot said:


> Cah, thx, great to hear, sounds like Eco might be better for the messy puffers in that regards, what other tank mates do you have (trying to see if you have Kuhli's in there and if its soft enough...)


Right now, all I have in that tank are 3 oto's and 4 dwarf puffers. I tried panda corys but they didn't survive. I think the water temp was too high. I think the eco would be soft enough substrate for kuhlis, although I would be a little nervous with smaller juvenile kuhlis as they look worm-like.


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## Nbot (Apr 15, 2007)

*Eco-Complete is better than ADA Aquasoil for *MOST* Hobbyists*

Just an update on this...

I've got the ADA Amazonia II in the 29g tank, with a happy little colony of Kuhli's....*no* problems at all, they don't stir up the substrate and cause it to get silty or etc. Its plenty soft enough for the Kuhli's

That being said, I just swapped the gravel out of my 55g for Eco-Complete...and I have a Horse Face loach in there, and he seems to be burrowing just fine in the Eco. I realize the eco is more "micro-porous" (ie, a little lava-rockish) on its top layer (the bottom layer is sandy), but its still I think comparable to ADA I mean its basically soil, I wouldn't hesitate to put to put loaches in w/ Eco...plus, the Eco is very "light" so even if its a little rougher, its not like he has to fight to burrow down, I've seen him bury himself several times in just the first day of changing to Eco, he does it so fast!

*AND*...I recommend Eco to *any* and *every* rookie or sophomore hobbyist *instead* of Aquasoil!! Its a) the easiest to plant in! (not too light like AS) b) it doesn't make your tank murky for a few weeks w/ daily water changes, c) and perhaps most importantly, you can rearrange your scape without angering the gods of silty water....which, for *MOST* of us is what we are going to end up doing with our tanks, rearranging things as time goes on (since we are new, you won't know how plants grow out, or how your scape preferences mature...its nice to not have to fear rearranging your scape) AS I think is for people who know ahead of time *what* they want their scape to be, which usually means you have a few years of experience w/ scaping, and know how the plants grow out, and you aren't going to be re-arranging your scape. Eco is easier to plant in as well, it has a nice weight to it. I have seen some amazing growth from my AS in my low-tech tank, HOWEVER I doubt Eco is going to be 'that' much worse, and its benefits far outweigh the growth advantage I believe.

Here's a pic of one of the happy camper Kuhli's on Amazonia II (sorry for some reason won't update) The 2nd pic below is the horse face loach on Eco


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