# I need help ASAP!!! (Hair Algea)



## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

Ive read alot of post in this section on Hair Algea. Ive serached it and read everything I can find. Ive tried vac. it out while changing 30-40% of the water a few times and also reduced the photo. periord of my tank. The HAIR ALGEA still wont go away... Please help... I also got 5 Otto cats to try and help reduce the problem and currently cant find an SAE in my area. Several sites online Ive checked are also out of SAE's. Im wondering if my actinic blues could be aiding it in its grow. I have the blues come on for 3 hours before and after my photo. period. Please help me figure this out as its really ugle and starting to kill my plants... Thanks in advance for the advice. I also can not afford to do CO2 and have not found a nice enough DIY that I wanted to try and do. Thanks again!!!


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

I just finished (hopefully) battling with this stuff, it really is a pain.

On a 46gal, which I have, you should really look at pressurized co2, but here is a very good informative thread for DiY co2 growing difficult plants

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/55788-20gal-diy-co2-plant-possibilities.html

Back to the algae.....

This is a very good site for different types of algae

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

If its the Rhizoclonium, which is what Im pretty sure I had, you should try to do a bleach dip on the plants, inrease bio filtration, and double dose excel for at least two weeks daily and hopefully it will go away

What are the specs on your lighting? K rating and how long is the photoperiod? The actinics really dont do anything at all for plants.

Here is a link to my 46bow
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/51606-4th-try-w-46gal-bowfront-56k-3.html#post506341

Good luck


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

I only have the actinics for viewing the tank and to replicate a day/night cycle. 

Lights:
I have 2 blues on for 3 hours then 2 39watt 6700K which should give me 1.7 watts per gallon and then the blues untill the moon lights. I have two other 6700K but I will not use them untill I get CO2 or just use then as replacements.

Im reading the links know I just wanted to get back to you with the specs.. Thanks

Oh and best place to get Excel and how do I dose it???


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

How long are your 67ks on for a day? Maybe you could shorten the time that the actinics are on and see if that helps? The daylights dont need to be on more then 10hours a day

Seachem makes the excel product, so anywhere you can pick that sort of stuff up at....your local fish store, or off the web?

The directions on the bottle say 1 capful (5ml) per 50gal daily or every other day

I dose two capfuls daily, along with pressurized co2

1.7wpg is pretty decent, and that shouldnt really be the cause of your algae problems

what media is in your fluval?

Hope the links help you


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

sorry I forgot to mention that I started out at 8 and am down to 6


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

I have the standard media that came with it. The tank is about a month old. I think its just the spounge, rings, and cardon... Should I change the media??


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Ok, I would guess part of your problem is the 3 hours of actinics

How is your fish load and feeding habits? I know im a heavy feeder, with discus, and I use a rena xp3 with *two* boxes of ceramic rings and the black stars that rena makes for the filter media, and it seems to be helping out nicely

here is a link for the rings

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10567/product.web

and here is a link for the stars

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10570/product.web

Im sure fluval has something similar to this on the market, but you can use any brand....just try to stuff a lot of that in the filter

Your tank is relatively new, and the algae could go away if you do the bleach dip, excel dosing, and do something different with the actinics

I was writing you as you posted your last comment

Maybe try to do away with the actinics and the bleach dip on the plants, and then just dose with excel. CO2 is a majorly important factor with growing plants. They need a lot of it, and that is why pressurized co2 is usually recommended.

Good luck....hopefully others will chime in on your situation soon also!:icon_smil


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

I have 10 White cloud Minows and 5 otto cats so far. I feed every other day usually. I like to give them brine shrimp. I usually only feed them what they can eat in about 2 min. I would rather keep hungry fish than over feed.

I do have the rings and will look into the stars.


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

The fish load and feeding sounds good. You could try to remove the carbon from your filter, and put a good bit of zeolite in

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/15054/product.web

Even once its not "active" its still a good biological filtration media. Its very useful in new setups. I still use this in my cannister.

I really think your problem is the actinics and the fact that the setup is new, and you dont have a source of co2.

I would shut the actinics off, add some more biological filtration, and get on the excel dosing

What kind of plants are you keeping atm?

Thanks and good luck:thumbsup:


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

I have java firns, Flame moss, HC and what I think is an amazon sword. The moss and HC unfortunetly require more light. I did not do the proper reserch before I got them but so far they seem ok. The moss looks to be dying though because the hair algae is covering it which makes it hard for it to get light. The HC looks the same as when I got it. Im looking into different types of media as I write this... Thanks for your help. Do you really think the actinics can cause algae to grow??? I like to view the tank with them on....But I will cut them off completly for know... Thanks again!


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

Is it bad to be doing 20 percent water changes every two or three days. Ive been doing this for a week now as I was vac. the hair algae out. Im planning on pulling the HC up tonight and cleanning that and replanting it all. Im also going to really vac. the flame moss as that seems to be getting it the worst. Thanks again for all your help!!!


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Well those are mostly low light plants, and they should do ok. Im still learning and trying to grow HC, so im not too familiar with the requirements of the plant. I do have some of it in a 3gal nano with only a 13watt light over it, but i just did that recently, so to early to tell.

You want to give the plants all they need to be happy, and outcompete the algae for nutrients. The actinics may contribute to algae growth because they are not helping the plants grow. Doing water changes more often wont hurt anything at all, in fact, in new setups it will prolly help things along more. What is fertilizer routine? What kind of plants do you want to keep? High light, or low light?

If you like to view the tank with the actinics on, maybe try to only do one hour in the am and one hour in the pm, but not three hours?

I hope you can find some zeolite, and excel, that would help.

Good luck:smile:


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

So far ERK has great advice. You need to get CO2 going with that much light. Once you do that, add some fast growing weeds to your tank. Stuff it. Keep the filters and bottom of the tank clean. Try not to uproot or make a big mess when planting your fast growing nutrient suckers. Don't forget the ferts! Swap out the actiics for some 6700k bulbs. Sounds like you have a fight on your hands;-)


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

I’m fighting as hard as I can. Last night I did another cleaning. I had to pull all the HC rinse it and replant it. I lost some in the process. I also cut the actinic completely. I might eventually go to a 1 hour mode just to view. I’m still searching high and low for excel and may end up ordering some online tonight. I have the two 39 watt 6700Ks on for 6 hours and am hoping to see very little hair algae tonight when I get home. I gave the whole tank a good cleaning last night. What other nutrient sucking plants should I get? I’m planning on staying low light (1.7 watts per gal.) for a bit. I’m also in search of a great DIY CO2 setup if you guys have any to recommend… Thanks again for the advice…. Keeps it coming!!!!


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Im not sure if the green hair algae will go away on its own, with only water changes, you are going to have to spot treat with excel when you get it, or pull the plants and soak them in a bleach dip solution if the algae is bad enough. You are going to have to get rid of it, fix whatever caused it, and then you can try things again and hopefully it wont come back

Some nutrient sponge plants include wysteria, hygros, cabomba green, and you could float riccia in the tank

Look back at the link I sent about the diy co2, it has all the info a good diy co2 in it, if not, maybe you could post your question in there?

Good luck:thumbsup:


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

My hair algae is actually brown. It satrts as a strand that looks white but as it grows longer you can see it is brown. Is that the same as the Green???


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Take a look at that link regarding algae, and try to figure out which one it is

If its brown, it could be diatoms, which from my understanding is fairly common in a new setup, and in that case, you just wanna hit the water changes, dose excel, and use the zeolite (ammonia remover) and hopefully that will go away

Good luck


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

One thing I have learned is that you have to find a balance for any tank/light/CO2 combo. If you over/under it on one, then the evil algae monster will visit. Like revving up your engine, with an empty tank! I have done the bleach dip in the past, and its definately two steps back. Hair algea is pretty easy to remove, so If you have a bad infected area, just remove it. Try not to disturb the gravel to much. Once everything is in balance it wil go away. Excel will help a bit, but will not solve the fundamental problems. I started a tank once with to much light, and no CO2, boy was that a mistake. Also, make sure you have enough water movement in the tank. I like to direct a lot of flow down, and along the back, with at least a little rippleing along top. 

Good luck


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

I just ordered a drop checker from that post ERK and am going to buld that set up tonight. Evergreen would you recommend a power head. I currently have only the flow from the fluval 305. I had debated adding one of my maxi jet 900's i have lying around. What do you think????


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

Might help some, but mainly just to keep CO2 mixed well. I think I would add it, but it could cause the little CO2 in the tank to outgas faster. Just keep the light down, tank clean, till you get CO2. maybe 30% water changeever other day. 

When you get your CO2 you can start using all those watts/water movement. As long as your doing ferts. It might go against every bone in your body to add fertlizer. But you want those plants out competing the algae! 

Also, have you tested for ammonia? Is this tank under three months old?


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

Yes it is under three months old and the ammonia seemed fine. I will check again tonight. Ive ordered the Drop checker and Diffuser and will be building the set up ERK linked me to as soon as I get the parts. Untill then I will do as you listed Evergreen. Im also getting Flourish Excel and Ammonia remover for the fluval.


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Good work, that should get you back on track somewhat. You will also need 4dKh solution for that drop checker? Have you read up on that part of things yet?

Good luck with everything


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## Freshwater Architect54 (Nov 21, 2007)

What is 4dkh Solution and where can I get it???


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

Sounds like you have a plan of action. Might want a larger biological bed. after you use the ammonia remover for a week, try to replace with beads. Right now your relying on a sponge only. 

Keep us updated.


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## markkoelsch (Oct 20, 2007)

OK, how is a bleach dip done? Are you talking about straight bleach, ordiluted to a certain percentage?

Thanks, 

Mark


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

markkoelsch said:


> OK, how is a bleach dip done? Are you talking about straight bleach, ordiluted to a certain percentage?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark


I bleached my plants once to try and eliminate BBA (didn't know at the time about treating with Excel). I would never do it again. I used a weak solution since I had my doubts about how safe it was. It killed the algae but the plants either died or were weakened by the bleach and the algae bounced back quicker than the plants. When you have algae it is better to strengthen your plants not weaken them.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

markkoelsch said:


> OK, how is a bleach dip done? Are you talking about straight bleach, ordiluted to a certain percentage?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark


Don't bleach your plants unless you are prepared for them to die. Bleach is a method that isn't necessay. If you have CO2 injection, just boost it a little. When CO2 is maintained at higher levels, most algae will recede and possibly even dissappear. If you don't use CO2 then what method are you using to get carbon in the tank? Excell? If so, Excell can be used to "spot treat" BBA. There is a thread sticky in the Algae section that might be worth a read.

If you are going to follow a method to try to manually erradicate the algae, be prepared for it to come back. Algae growth is an indicator of something being out of balance in the tank. I have chased the algae erradication dragon for years. I found balance by reducing my photo period, injecting CO2 at slightly higher rates (specific to my tank), and dosing the correct ferts following the EI method. If you go the manuall erradication route, you will soon find yourself chasing your own tail.


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

> OK, how is a bleach dip done? Are you talking about straight bleach, ordiluted to a certain percentage?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark


Ive used a 20:1 water to bleach solution, to get rid of *green hair algae, and bba,* and dipped blyxa japonica, a. reneckii, sunset hygro, stargrass, dwarf sag, rotala vietnam, pogo stellatus narrow and broad leaf, rotala sp. colorata, rotala wallichii, and ludwigia 'cuba', the only plant that wasnt happy from this dip was the narrow leaf stellatus, and stargrass....those def. died on me....the others were fine, and algae free, and have been ever since.

I believe I solved the root cause of the algae *BEFORE* I did the dip, in order to get what was in there out, and get the plants to grow again

Here is the method I used....

Fill up a big bucket create the bleach solution, and dip the plant for one minute (try to keep the roots out of the dip) and then rinse good under tap water, then soak in a bucket of water with A LOT of prime for at least 10mins, then rinse again, then just a quick dip in the prime solution again, one more rinse, and wash your hands before putting the plant back in the tank. I did this during a water change too, so I was able to add more prime then normal to my fresh water as it went back in the tank. I also used this dip on any cannister filter pieces, and driftwood....so far, everything is good, and the plants are back growing nicely.

I dont recommend this method, unless you have found the root cause of your algae problems....and co2 is a huge issue in plant growth

Here is a pic of my tank, from when I did the bleach dip, which has been revised a few times, but everything is clean and algae free now. Its a lil hard to see the algae in the pic, but it was long green stuff, and it would flow in the current, from equipment, and the plants...the stuff on the glass was from me being lazy:wink: 










And here is the most recent shot of the tank












> What is 4dkh Solution and where can I get it???


4dKh is water with a certain degree of hardness, that you want to put inside the drop checker, along with 2 drops of pH indicator solution, and once you have ~30ppm of CO2 in the water, the solution inside the drop checker will go green.

Here is a link with a few places to order it from

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/55521-kh-standard.html

Blacksunshine on here sells the mix as well, and so does Rex Grigg

Lighting was a big issue in my tank, and have since learned "the plants dont need as much light as most people think" and once I accepted that, and lowered my lighting some, turned co2 up, things went well, but I stilled had to get rid of the hair algae, and the bleach dip worked for me ever since and im now growing much more difficult plants then before.

Good luck


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Here are three pics I just took, after I finished my weekly water change

I trim the plants pretty short these days, but things grow back in nicely and fairly quickly.

I also just planted some tonina belems, and 1 erio cinerum sp. thailand, which is prolly hard to see in the pics




























Still working with the settings on this new powershot camera

Thanks


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

Nice looking tank! And I love the contrasting Discus.


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## Erk (Aug 21, 2007)

Thanks very much Evergreen There is actually four of them in there, but two of them are stunted and hide a lot:icon_sad: I will try to get new pics again in a week or so to show how stuff fills in some, and hopefully I can get a shot with all four of them out, there is one real pretty (stunted) one I dont think showed up in any of these pics! haha:icon_roll 

Thanks again


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## mikeb210 (Oct 17, 2007)

I squirted mine with excel and it was gone the next day. Unfortunately so were all of the valisineria that the algae was growing on. Moral of the story is research it first, but it might work. Apparently excel will kill "soft" plants. Thats a new term to me, so make sure you don't have any.


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