# Lbacha's "Borneo Stream Biotope" terrarium (Lot of new pics 11/30)



## hydrophyte

That sounds like a great idea. I wondered when somebody would try that and I considered doing it myself. Emersed aquarium plants are so easy to grow.

The easiest way to do this would be to just fill the bottom of the enclusre with Aquasoil or somthing similar. If you want any kind of built-up structure inside you will need to have very good watering or misting because those areas will drain much faster. 

The plants might appreciate some air circulation so as long as you can set it up without drying the air a little CPU fan could be helpful. A fan aimed at front pane of glass will reduce condensation some, but you will probably still get some fogging. The condensation correlates with the difference in temperature between the room and the inside of the enclosure. the colder the room relative to the tank the more condensation you will get. 

This sounds like it would be a pretty simple setup. I would probably just use a regular aquarium instead fo the Exo Terra.


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## vespers_

lbacha said:


> Well everyone, I have decided to take emersed setups to a different level, I want to display my emersed plants like we do our submersed plants so I have started looking into a terrarium. I wanted to throw my idea out there and see what you all thought first before I started buying equipment. I'm planning on using a exo terra terrarium (if anyone had a better suggestion please let me know) with a mistking watering system hooked up to a humidity controller. i will have to get a custom acrylic top for the tank as I want 85%+ humidity at all times. I'm planning no fauna for it just plants and everything will be something that is sold to be in an aquarium (crypts, anubias, bucephalandras, maybe some stems, java fern and aquatic mosses). I'm planning on a tiered pool approach with hydroton in the bottom so their is substantial water in it.
> 
> My concerns:
> 1. is the exo terra sealed enough to keep humidity as high as I want..
> no. you'll have to cover some of the mesh vent at the top. you don't want to cover it all though because you still want air circulation. i'd leave about 1.5 inches across the back.
> 
> 2. Will the split front glass doors be a distraction..
> 
> i don't find that, and they really help you access the tank easily.
> 3. What is the best way to heat (I'm thinking heat the water)
> 
> i doubt you'll need to heat it. room temp is fine. most plants will do fine in the low 70s and some even do better in the high 60s (mosses for example). plus the lights will provide more heat in an empty tank than one full of water, but if you do need one, heat the water.
> 4. How do I create circulation in the tank and is it needed with aquatic plants (I don't have any in my emersed set-ups now)
> you won't have flow if you fill the bottom with hydroton. the best you can get with that is water turnover. just build a small area out of eggcrate to sit a small powerhead in so that it is separate from the hydroton but still submerged and then use it to pump the water up to the pools. other option is to build a false bottom rather than use hydroton.
> 5. Will mosses be enough to keep mold and fungus down (I know moss is naturally resistant to them) if not how do I control that other than air circulation.
> some people seed the tank with springtails and isopods. most of the mold should disappear when the tank matures though.
> 
> 6. How do I keep the front glass clear enough to see into this when it is done It would defeat the purpose if I can't see in (will a fan blowing on it keep condensation off? or is this a lost cause)
> 
> you would need a small cpu fan to do that. it is a good idea to have one for circulation anyway, and the added plus is it will keep the front glass clear.
> If anyone has any suggestions on the above points or other things I should think of let me know.
> 
> Len


sounds interesting :icon_smil


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> That sounds like a great idea. I wondered when somebody would try that and I considered doing it myself. Emersed aquarium plants are so easy to grow.
> 
> The easiest way to do this would be to just fill the bottom of the enclusre with Aquasoil or somthing similar. If you want any kind of built-up structure inside you will need to have very good watering or misting because those areas will drain much faster.
> 
> The plants might appreciate some air circulation so as long as you can set it up without drying the air a little CPU fan could be helpful. A fan aimed at front pane of glass will reduce condensation some, but you will probably still get some fogging. The condensation correlates with the difference in temperature between the room and the inside of the enclosure. the colder the room relative to the tank the more condensation you will get.
> 
> This sounds like it would be a pretty simple setup. I would probably just use a regular aquarium instead fo the Exo Terra.


My main reason for the exo terra is the opening front so I can work on it and take pictures if fogging is an issue, I plan on mounting the mister and fan to the top (I'm thinking a knife type of return that will blow air across the whole front of the tank, I was just going to recirculate the tank air so it doesn't dry out). This with the lights will make getting into it alot harder than just being able to open the front door and work on it. A tank would be a much cheaper solution though. I also want a taller tank 24" or so and really don't need the thick glass that an aquarium that height would require.

Len


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## hydrophyte

I agree with vespers it would also be good to have water circulation.

You should look at some of those really cool _Cryptocoryne_ habitat pictures from Borneo and other places in SE Asia. It would be awesome to recreate something like that. There were a couple of people (can't remember who??) who posted lots of pictures of those places on aquaticplantcentral.com.


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## lbacha

vespers_ said:


> sounds interesting :icon_smil


Thanks for the suggestions, I'm planning on having a custom acrylic top made for it if I go that route, I'm thinking of mounting an extra fan that will add fresh air once or twice a day then one that will just circulate the moist air to keep dead spots from forming, I'm really concerned about keeping humidity high becuase I plan on only using rare emersed aquatic plants and mosses (and small ones at that so they will dry out quick).

Len


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## looking4roselines

Jungle mike is the guy from apc I'm getting inspiration from his photos as well.

Have you considered mineralized topsoil and clay for your substrate?


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Jungle mike is the guy from apc I'm getting inspiration from his photos as well.
> 
> Have you considered mineralized topsoil and clay for your substrate?


I havn't even thought of the substrate yet but that is definitely an idea, I'm thinking of building the tiers out of pink insulating foam covered in a peat and adhesive mixed together with planters carved out of it, this will give me a lightweight planter for the crypts that is waterproof, I'm thinking of making the setup modular so I can grow different crypts in the tier and then swap them out as they get bigger and need thinned down, just a thought on my part, I've always been a fan of terrariums and if you walked into my apartment you would see it looks like a big terrarium, with all the houeplants i have lol..

Len


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## hydrophyte

Oh yeah I think that junglemike is Michael Lo. I was just on his site looking at some other stuff... http://ibanorum.netfirms.com/

I like the idea of tiers. A setup for crypts might be pretty easy to make with tiers using just simple cutouts of pink insulation layered up to make different 3D shapes and then shaped a little bit for rounded edges. You could even make the water flow from one pool to the next with notch cutouts in the edge of each. Each pool could have a nutrient-rich topsoil substrate with gravel or sand cap.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Oh yeah I think that junglemike is Michael Lo. I was just on his site looking at some other stuff... http://ibanorum.netfirms.com/
> 
> I like the idea of tiers. A setup for crypts might be pretty easy to make with tiers using just simple cutouts of pink insulation layered up to make different 3D shapes and then shaped a little bit for rounded edges. You could even make the water flow from one pool to the next with notch cutouts in the edge of each. Each pool could have a nutrient-rich topsoil substrate with gravel or sand cap.


Thats exactly what I was thinking, the only thing I'm trying to figure out is how to coat the foam, for that I'm going to troll the dendrobate board and see what they use.

Len


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## Gatekeeper

You can make your own Vivarium as well. There are some good links and a friend of mine built one. Its incredible.

Here is a link to read through.


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## vespers_

lbacha said:


> Thats exactly what I was thinking, the only thing I'm trying to figure out is how to coat the foam, for that I'm going to troll the dendrobate board and see what they use.
> 
> Len


did someone say tiered pools? :icon_lol: 

expanding foam is probably the easiest to work with, but sheets of pink/blue foam will work too. there are several ways to seal the foam too. cement/grout, drylok, silicone+coco coir and epoxy all come to mind and are the most common. or, you could do what i did and just use containers that don't need to be sealed. they don't look as natural as something shaped and then made to resemble rocks, but they were easy and only took a few seconds to make. they are also really cheap.


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## hydrophyte

I imagine the tiered hardscape to be easier to make with layered poly sheet. You could also give it very nice contours with that kind of construction.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> I imagine the tiered hardscape to be easier to make with layered poly sheet. You could also give it very nice contours with that kind of construction.


I plan on buying a sheet this weekend and playing around with making shapes out of it, I'm looking for a pool with low lying crypts on the edges and a small rock in the middle with a couple species of Buces on it. All the bare surfaces will be covered in aquatic mosses and the whole thing will be misted regularly with a mistking system. Flowing water is less important to me than the illusion of pool with crypts growing on the banks and some buces clinging above the water line. I have the vison in my head now to make it reality. I just increased my Buce collection and I think they really need to be showcased.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Wouldn't it be cool to get something like a terraced rice paddy effect? Look at this picture.....

http://good-wallpapers.com/wall.php?category=places&id=4792&width=1680&ratio=1.6


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## karatekid14

hydrophyte said:


> Wouldn't it be cool to get something like a terraced rice paddy effect? Look at this picture.....
> 
> http://good-wallpapers.com/wall.php?category=places&id=4792&width=1680&ratio=1.6


Yes that is so cool!. If you made the terrace large enough maybe you could put shrimp in it. I know you wanted to do emersed but I think that would be awsome.


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## hydrophyte

You could do some of the pools with lots of plants growing out of them and leave others with mostly open water.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Wouldn't it be cool to get something like a terraced rice paddy effect? Look at this picture.....
> 
> http://good-wallpapers.com/wall.php?category=places&id=4792&width=1680&ratio=1.6


That was my original though but my issue is depth, I'm already going to have to figure out what to do with the background, I'm already considering a shallow height so I don't need to worry about to much background, since all my plants are essencially terrestrial I need to make the background look like rocks on the bank of a stream or something similiar, no matter what I do it will eat up some of the depth of the tank, I'm most likely going with an 18" deep tank so if I use up 3-6" for the background that only leaves me 12-15" for planting which down't leave much room for terraces here is an example of what I'm thinking.


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## 150EH

I knew you had caught it but not this bad, it looks like your are going to take it to the next level. I've seen the exo-terra used at our LFS and it was a very impressive set up the auto misting, etc. it just depends on what you put into it with ideas and imagination.

Good luck and I can't wait to see what you come up with!


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## lbacha

150EH said:


> I knew you had caught it but not this bad, it looks like your are going to take it to the next level. I've seen the exo-terra used at our LFS and it was a very impressive set up the auto misting, etc. it just depends on what you put into it with ideas and imagination.
> 
> Good luck and I can't wait to see what you come up with!


I needed a good fall project, lol... My cube was my project earlier this year (built the stand from scratch).. I also have a dark corner in my livingroom that I need some plants in (only open spot in there without plants)

Len


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## lbacha

Well after some research last nigh I have decided I'm going to make it a Borneo biotope, this will help me limit what crypts to use (the list is still pretty long), I havn't decided if I want to include terrestrials but if I did there are some great nepenthes (pitcher plants), ferns as well as other harder to find Aridarum, Piptospatha (now Ooia), Schismatoglottis, Rhaphidophora & Homalomena. Most of these all grow close to the stream bed so they will work great for my concept terrarium, check out the thread below if you want to see my inspiration, I was planning on spending 2 weeks in thailand in march but I may have to take a few days and head to Borneo as well.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/72735-Aquatic-amp-semi-aquatic-plants-of-Borneo

Len


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## hydrophyte

Hey I would be veru interested to know if you have any luck digging up any of those other strange little aroids. 

I have some rare & unusual palms that I recently ordered that include a couple of stream associates and I think that at least one of them is from Borneo.

I am also getting some _Aglaonema minima_ with another order. Supposedly this one grows as a swamp-associated plant on Borneo. It is not a true underwater aquatic and they sell it in Europe (but not here much apparently) as a faux aquatic that dies underwater.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Hey I would be veru interested to know if you have any luck digging up any of those other strange little aroids.
> 
> I have some rare & unusual palms that I recently ordered that include a couple of stream associates and I think that at least one of them is from Borneo.
> 
> I am also getting some _Aglaonema minima_ with another order. Supposedly this one grows as a swamp-associated plant on Borneo. It is not a true underwater aquatic and they sell it in Europe (but not here much apparently) as a faux aquatic that dies underwater.


I'd be interested in seeing that, I'm planning on doing sandstone rocks, that seems to be the most common rock in the streams I'm seeing in the pics and I have access to a whole stream full of them (They are also easy to break into shapes). I like the moist rocky look with patches of moss and small little plants coming out of the cracks, I also think a patch or two od crypts half emmersed and half submersed will look neat as well, I have to figure out how to make the sloping clay bank so it will hold its shape but I'm getting excited about the idea.

Len


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## hydrophyte

That sounds like a good concept. So are you going to ditch the foam structure in favor of natural materials to build up the shapes?

Check this out...

www.ifeanet.org/publicaciones/boletines/21(2)/415.pdf


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> That sounds like a good concept. So are you going to ditch the foam structure in favor of natural materials to build up the shapes?
> 
> Check this out...
> 
> www.ifeanet.org/publicaciones/boletines/21(2)/415.pdf


I'll have to open the link when I get home it won't open on my work computer, as for foam I still plan on using it as the base, I'm going to sandwich layers together and then carve it out, this is like bulding scenery for a model railroad, lol, I even have foam carving tools made specificly for this purpose. I'm thinking of only using real stone for the small islands that will have the bucephelandras on them.

Len


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## looking4roselines

I cant wait to see what you will come up with. I might have to plagiarize some ideas from you later. 

For your buce islands, are the plants going to make contact with the water? How do you intend on feeding them? Wabi-kusa type of mounds might be something to consider. A German (?) member from APC experimented them on a mound made of a filter sponge that had soil soaked in for nutrients. 

My great grand parents were from Singapore. Once my child gets older, I want want to do some traveling in SG pay a visit to borneo as well.


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## 150EH

I've been loooking for a link but I can't find it, the guy made a tree stump with all the roots just like you'd see on the side of a river bank, he started with foam and carved it, then small diameter foam tube and it all got cover with concrete and painted, it was so good.

Hydrophyte does this ring a bell?


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## looking4roselines

150EH said:


> I've been loooking for a link but I can't find it, the guy made a tree stump with all the roots just like you'd see on the side of a river bank, he started with foam and carved it, then small diameter foam tube and it all got cover with concrete and painted, it was so good.
> 
> Hydrophyte does this ring a bell?


Was this housing mud skippers?


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> I cant wait to see what you will come up with. I might have to plagiarize some ideas from you later.
> 
> For your buce islands, are the plants going to make contact with the water? How do you intend on feeding them? Wabi-kusa type of mounds might be something to consider. A German (?) member from APC experimented them on a mound made of a filter sponge that had soil soaked in for nutrients.
> 
> My great grand parents were from Singapore. Once my child gets older, I want want to do some traveling in SG pay a visit to borneo as well.


That is a great question, I could fertilize the water so that the mosses and crypts get fed or I was thinking about maybe mounting them in crevices in the rock filled with soil, I really want the look of buces growing on bare rock like you see in alot of the pics so nutrient rich water may be the way I go, I'm probably going to put drip tubes above each clump of buces so that the islands are always wet, I may put them on timers havn't decided yet. Lots of things to work through in my head as far as the inner workings go, I always over engineer these because I have to make them go a week at a time without anyone being around. The good thing about slow growing is that they are probably slow at uptaking nutrients so I would only need a little soil or a light nutrient load in the water.

Len


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## lbacha

150EH said:


> I've been loooking for a link but I can't find it, the guy made a tree stump with all the roots just like you'd see on the side of a river bank, he started with foam and carved it, then small diameter foam tube and it all got cover with concrete and painted, it was so good.
> 
> Hydrophyte does this ring a bell?


There is the one for the mudskippers but the one 150EH is talking about is from dendroboard (I can't remember the name) but it is sweet, unfortunatly those roots take up too much of the bottom of the tank so I'm going to stay away from that idea since I'm going with a stream bank them. I will brobably make a couple random roots creeping over the roots to add some visual breaks.

Len


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## hydrophyte

I really want to do a setup like this now.

In a lot of those pictures by junglemike you can see the crypt plants growing in real dense stands in shallow water with their leaves held horizontal and just below the water's surface. When they flower then plants growing like that hold their spathes up above water and it looks pretty cool. I bet this is a pretty characteristic way to grow for many species of crypts. These shallow pools in this setup idea of yours would be perfect for growing crypts like that.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> I really want to do a setup like this now.
> 
> In a lot of those pictures by junglemike you can see the crypt plants growing in real dense stands in shallow water with their leaves held horizontal and just below the water's surface. When they flower then plants growing like that hold their spathes up above water and it looks pretty cool. I bet this is a pretty characteristic way to grow for many species of crypts. These shallow pools in this setup idea of yours would be perfect for growing crypts like that.


Those pictures are exactly what I'm thinking of, I have always been a fan of displaying things in a natural way and I really think this might be a neat way to display some crypts most people don't see often, I figure I'll start small with my first try then go from there, imagine a group of keei or hudoroi growing like that, I'm wondering if 2-3" of water is enough or if I should go deeper. I can't wait to start playing with the foam this weekend, I'll post pics as I go. This will also let me know if the size will work.

Len


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## hydrophyte

I bet that 2" or so of water would be about right. You would want to build the pools deeper than that to leave depth for the substrate.

I have wondered about what pollinates the flowers of those wild crypt plants. There must be some little fly or some other insect that flies real low over the water to reach the spathes.


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## lbacha

Well I changed the title since it is definitly going to be a Borneo biotope, question for anyone looking, is java moss found in Borneo or is there another more typical aquatic moss from the region, I know Java moss is found in many different locations but confirmation would be great. If someone has a better suggestion for a moss to fill the gaps let me know, I plan on covering most of the surfaces that don't have plants in moss, so it looks like a mossy stream bank with patches of plants. 

Also if someone has a nice specimin of Piptospatha, Schismatoglottis, Rhaphidophora & Homalomena that they would be willing to sell or trade I'm looking for something that will get no bigger that 6-8" that I can use as a centerpeice plant in the set-up. (I know this is a stretch but I figured it would be worth throwing out there, lol) I really want something to throw a size contrast to the low growing crypts and small Bucephalandras.

Len


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## hydrophyte

I have looked and looked, but it seems that nobody in the US has _Piptospatha_ for sale. I think it would take a special import to get that one in. 

There are Borneo species of _Schismatoglottis_, _Rhaphidophora_ & _Homalomena _, but those genera also occur over a wider area. If you wanted to have a totally authentic selection you would need to research the species that are Borneo native. 

I have this _Scismatoglottis_ 'Frosty Kiss' which is a real nice riparium plant. That 'Frosty Kiss' is just the variety name and I lost track of the species, but I am pretty sure the species is from Malaysia and not Borneo.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> I have looked and looked, but it seems that nobody in the US has _Piptospatha_ for sale. I think it would take a special import to get that one in.
> 
> There are Borneo species of _Schismatoglottis_, _Rhaphidophora_ & _Homalomena _, but those genera also occur over a wider area. If you wanted to have a totally authentic selection you would need to research the species that are Borneo native.
> 
> I have this _Scismatoglottis_ 'Frosty Kiss' which is a real nice riparium plant. That 'Frosty Kiss' is just the variety name and I lost track of the species, but I am pretty sure the species is from Malaysia and not Borneo.


That is a nice plant, just based on the pic it is a little bigger than what I'm looking for but the colors are the type of splash of color I'm looking to add, I figure I'd start asking around now and maybe someone will have something, I'm also headed to thailand (might try to fit a few days in Borneo into it) in March to visit my brother while he is on leave from afganistan so maybe I can find a source that can get me something while I'm there, I'm working on what it will take to bring stuff back from my trip (lots of fun paperwork and permits, lol)

Len


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## hydrophyte

Well if you can't find stuff elsewhere I could part with a division of that same plant. It is not a true Borneo speies but represents that general area more or less. A dwarf palm could also be nice for adding some more vertical dimension in a setup like that. I have some stream-associated _Pinanga_ and _Licuala_ palms that are also not Borneo native but pretty nice plants and unusual. As far as I know nobody has really tried to grow these things in fish tanks before but mine are doing well so far.

The _Licuala_s are cool because they have these pleated leaves. Look at the center plant in this shot.


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## 150EH

No it was the one with the mudskippers, now I want to see the other one, but it's good that you have seen it, I though it was packed with good work.

I'm still having Mudskipper nightmares!!!!


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## hydrophyte

150EH said:


> No it was the one with the mudskippers, now I want to see the other one, but it's good that you have seen it, I though it was packed with good work.
> 
> I'm still having Mudskipper nightmares!!!!


Do you mean the one that HX67 from Finland made? He posted an update recently. He had some ups-and-downs with the plants but the fish loooked good and some of the plants were growing well.


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## lbacha

Ok so here is my new favorite tool








And now for the initial mockup, the foam will be twice as thick I just want to show the general layout








Len


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## hydrophyte

So does that thing slice through the pink foam pretty well?

Are you going to bond the foam somehow? Regular aquarium-safe silicone would probably work fine for that.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> So does that thing slice through the pink foam pretty well?
> 
> Are you going to bond the foam somehow? Regular aquarium-safe silicone would probably work fine for that.


It cuts it really well actually, I'm starting to rethink how I want to do this, I may not do a tier because of the space it takes up, I may just do a rocky slope going into the pool and plant the bucephalandras on the slope, I'll then carve it into a slight waterfall and let water run down it, this way I'll have crypts on the main level and the background will be rocks covered in buces.

Len


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## WeedCali

Lookin good!


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## RipariumGuy

I really like where you are going with this. Bummed I didn't see it sooner!


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## lbacha

RipariumGuy said:


> I really like where you are going with this. Bummed I didn't see it sooner!


I just started the thread a couple days ago so you didn't miss much, here is what I have so far, let me know what you all think, I'm still brainstorming on how to do the emmersed to submersed transition for the crypts, the emersed spots still need cut out of the foam.
















Len


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## looking4roselines

It's really starting to come together. I like it.
Are you using the same material for the rock wall?


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## lbacha

Still not sure if I like it, 36" x 18" is kinda limiting for what I want to do.. Hmm I'm going to have to mull this over, I did buy a 40 breeder at petco during their $1 a gallon sale I'm going to make it my emersed tank for right now. 

Len


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## lbacha

Well here is where I'm at, I'm probably going to use a 40g breeder for the tank, while I liked the idea of the exo terra, I think the front opening and black vebt across the front will be a distraction from the display. I'm also going to use less foam, I'm going to make faux sandstone rocks for the bucephelandras to grow on but the bottom will just be a sloping transition of substrate from 4-5" thick to 2-3" thick so the crypts can grow along the transition. I think this will look the most natural especial with the fake rocks coming out of it. I'm considering a clay/peat background like they use in PDF tanks, they state it grows moss really well and its drawback is it needs really high humidity which won't be an issue for me (Oh yeah I just ordered a mistking watering system, I can't wait to mess around with it)

Here is my new idea









Now for the big questions:

1. What do I use for the substrate: I was considering AS malaya as it worked well for my aquarium and I like the natural color, I'm also considering sand because the natural habitat seems to be alot of sands as well as possibly AS malaya covered in sand. Or even possibly AS malaya powder mixed with sand to make a sandy mud.

2. How do I filter the water area, I'm considering drilling holes at 4" and 8" and using them as overflows into a sump so that it will actually have more water. The 8" hole will be used so I can simulate the rainy season and raise the water level. (this set-up will keep me from having to worry about evaporation). I'm thinking of hooking a pump up to the 4" hole that will come on with a timer every day or two that will raise the water to the 8" level, this will represent the stream rising and falling because of rainfall, the water can just run back out through the pump when it isn't on.

3. Will the 16" tall breeder be tall enough, while there won't be tall plants the water section will take a good 4-6" which only leaves 12" to the top, I may have to go with a 50g 18" or a 65g 24" (probably my best choice).

4. Will bucephelandras grow on a grout & acrylic polymer hardshell, or should I just use real sandstone, I can get it at my parents and the good think about sandstone is you can split it and make a flat background, while it will be alot heavier it will also be alot more realistic.

5. What lighting should I use (I'm thinking double T5's, or should I go with 4 or even high output) If I go with 4 I can have the extra two just go on for an hour or two a day to represent midday.

6. How do I keep the transition between land and water from eroding, I really want it to be gradual so the crypts will grow towards it so a barrier isn't an option. Based on number 2 will the raising and lowering of the water eventually level out the substrate, if so I will need to put some sort of barrier in (any ideas?)

Again any input will be greatly appreciated

len


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## lbacha

Here are some pics from Micheal Lo "Jungle Mike" that have inspired this tank.


































So based on the last picture, I have proof that Buces and Crypts exist together, the rest of the pics are wher I got my idea of stand alone Buce boulders and emersed to submersed crypts. The list of crypts that I have identified as clear water or at least possibly in the same environment as buces are:

C striolata
C keei
C hudoroi
C auriculata
C bullosa
C noritoi
C uenoi
C sp. "Batang Ai"

I'm thinking this gives me a good list of plants to work with, I'd like to plant the keei or striolata in shallow water and see if it will eventually spread onto the emersed section, I think this would be a neat experiment as well as overall cool looking set-up. I'm thinking I can use the noritoi or auriculata in the background since they are a little taller upright growing than the others.

Len


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## 150EH

I love all those "C's" just keep piling them on, I also liked your foam cut out but it looked like it could use some more hieght, are you going to use it or trash it and start over?

Emersed Crypts get the coolest flowers like little water pitchers, it should be a sweet and uncommon set up.


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## lbacha

150EH said:


> I love all those "C's" just keep piling them on, I also liked your foam cut out but it looked like it could use some more hieght, are you going to use it or trash it and start over?
> 
> Emersed Crypts get the coolest flowers like little water pitchers, it should be a sweet and uncommon set up.


The more I think about it I'm thinking the foam my be a bust idea, I want to be able to raise and lower the water level and I don't know how I would anchor the foam so it wouldn't tear free and float, I'm going to probably go with a real sandstone hardscape. This hardscape I think would look the most realistic and most likely get the best growth because the real sandstone will hold moisture that will be key to the bucephanadras doing well.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte

Wow man you are really doing a good job on this. I don't often see projects like this that are so well thought out and researched.

Do you have ideas for authentic fish that you could include?

I have been researching stream-associated palms and turned up a couple other intriguing ones, but it looks like you are shooting for a real strict biotope and I don't know if any of them are true Borneo native plants.


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Wow man you are really doing a good job on this. I don't often see projects like this that are so well thought out and researched.


Lol, I'm a project manager by profession so I'm kinda used to it, I follow the mantra "Measure twice, cut once" ha ha.. I spent 9 months researching the 25 gallon cube and building averything for it before I ever added water, This I hope will go quicker but I won't do anything until it is ready to go and will be just right. There also isn't alot of information on this type of build so I'm going to have to experiment I think, The substrate slope will be the trickiest part I think, I can see why your riparium concept makes sense now. Having a civil engineering background I know how hard it is to keep the slope in place with moving water, I may have to wing it until the plants build a stable root base to keep it in place or add something that will act as barriers to build levels like small stones.

As for fish I may have to stay away from them, I want to raise and lower the water level to represent rains throughout eh course of a week and I'm concerned that fish will get beached if I do this. I really think this raising and lowering of the water level on a regular basis will be more realistic and natural for the plants and I'm cureous to see how it affects the crypts..

Len


----------



## hydrophyte

Yeah that varying water level idea is fantastic. This will be a great representation of those places that junglemike has documented. I bet you will see intriguing responses, especially blooming, from the plants if you do that.


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Yeah that varying water level idea is fantastic. This will be a great representation of those places that junglemike has documented. I bet you will see intriguing responses, especially blooming, from the plants if you do that.


I'm planning on asking him if he has any research or knows anyone that does on water levels in those small streams, I then want to set up a timer to mimic them, it will be really easy and I think it would be neat to come home and see the water high one day and then low the next. That mixed with the mist king should make a really neat environment. I would love to add fish but I'm sure I would run into some real issues with them getting stranded high and dry. 

I also saw some semi aquatic orchids that he took pics of so that is a new specimin that I may need to research.

Len


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## 150EH

Yeah I could see you point but most cover it with some type of concrete or Octacrete to weight it down, but all natural is good too.


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## hydrophyte

Wow I'd be real interested to know what kinds of orchids might live in those habitats.

I have done some research into orchids for growing in ripariums. Most of the ones that I have run into have been temperate zone species. I tried a couple of them but had trouble because they apparently needed a winter dormancy after growing a season.


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## karatekid14

subscribed!


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Wow I'd be real interested to know what kinds of orchids might live in those habitats.
> 
> I have done some research into orchids for growing in ripariums. Most of the ones that I have run into have been temperate zone species. I tried a couple of them but had trouble because they apparently needed a winter dormancy after growing a season.


I'll go through his blog and see if I can find it again, he figured it was semi aquatic because it was growing at the same waterline as buces it has a really neat leaf if I remember right.

Len


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## lbacha

Ok I found what I was thinking of it might not be semi aquatic but it grows in the same environment as buces it's a macodes jewel orchid it is about half way down the page here http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...830-aquatic-semi-aquatic-plants-borneo-9.html

I think it would be a great addition on the back wall.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Wow he had pictures of an unusual _Schismatoglottis_ on that same page too. The picture of the _Macodes_ made it look like it was growing right near the water. I wonder if I could try that in a riparium with any luck(?).


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Wow he had pictures of an unusual _Schismatoglottis_ on that same page too. The picture of the _Macodes_ made it look like it was growing right near the water. I wonder if I could try that in a riparium with any luck(?).


Yeah he has some amazing shots of _Schismatoglottis, piptospatha, Homalomena and Aridarum, _I'm not going to get my hopes up on adding any of them but I have found some of the jewel orchids like the one in the picture on ebay as well as some web sites. I really think that would be a neat addition on the backwall of my setup, especially since I'm thinking of going with a clay dripwall. The only issue I see with using them in a riparium is keeping the roots wet all the time, my guess is that the can stay extremly wet but their roots can't stay completly submersed it would be a neat addition for you though.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Yeha I did some more reading and it sounds like those _Macodes_ will grow in real moist spots or on rocks with dripping water, but probably not right in the water. 

There might be other _Schismatoglottis_ or _Homolomena_ to turn up. I have been surprised more than once with what I found on ebay with searches for "aroid". 

Have you been around on the International Aroid Society page much? You can find a lot of great stuff there. There have been several recent articles there and as regular scientific publication by Peter Boyce. He lives over in Indonesia and he and his colleagues have done a lot of research on the aroids of Borneo and elsewhere in the region.


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## hydrophyte

...wow that _Homolomena_ that he found is really cool...

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showpost.php?p=562468&postcount=28


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> ...wow that _Homolomena_ that he found is really cool...
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showpost.php?p=562468&postcount=28


That leave shape is neat, the L thwaitseii I have is similar it might be a good addition for a riparium.

Its the big plant in the middle








Detail of the leaf









Len


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## lbacha

There is another orchid that looks like it likes it wet about 2-3 posts down this thread

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/foru...uatic-amp-semi-aquatic-plants-of-Borneo/page4

Len


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## lbacha

Well I found a _Macodes_ for sale and bought it, even if I don't use it in the tank I think its a neat little orchid, oh no here I go with another type of plant.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Wow like he said that orchid that he found must be a true semi-aquatic species. It was growing right in among the _Aridarium_. How weird! It's too bad he did not have a species determination for it. Likely as not it could have been an undescribed species with no name.


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## hydrophyte

Now I really want to do something like this. I think I would build it up more vertically and make just two or three large boulders with foam that would overhang a pool of water in the foreground.


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## lbacha

I'm thinking a 65g is what I'm going to go with, gives me enough room for substrate at the bottom then I can do the rocks above, I want to try a clay wall on the back above the water line. (I want it to look like a clay embankment) I just got my mistking this thing is awesome it is like the misters they use in greenhouses. I think I'm going to get a quad normal T5 with 2 ballasts so I can go 2 or 4 bulbs.

Len


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## lbacha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuYb_jyGj78&feature=related

Check out these videos they are inspiration for this, I'm thinking of going with a peninsulasticking out from the wall with viewing from the two long sides.

Len


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## 150EH

It must have taken quite a while for those plants to grow on a rock like that and I would guess it had a thick coating of moss orginally that these plants could root in and steal nutrients from, that was a cool video and the water looked nice a clean.

Hows it comming besides the three plants.


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## lbacha

Well the hardscape is my hangup right now, I'm not sure how I want to make the rocks, I have a few different buces growing i pots right now, i have a Schismatoglottis coming, and I'm getting a piptospatha from Xue. I also have a macodes petola orchid to put in it, I'll need to get a bunch of aquatic moss to put on the rocks but I figure I will get that when the hardscape is done. I also have few different clear water crypts from borneo that I plan on using in it. As for the hardscape I'm going to try making some foam rocks with a grout shell this weekend and see how it works.

Len


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## hydrophyte

I just built a fake root structure using regular white expanded styrofoam formed and with a Drylok coating. It was very easy to apply the finish, probably easier than other possibilities like grout or epoxy, but it did end up looking a lot like latex paint.


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> I just built a fake root structure using regular white expanded styrofoam formed and with a Drylok coating. It was very easy to apply the finish, probably easier than other possibilities like grout or epoxy, but it did end up looking a lot like latex paint.


My biggest concern with drylock is what you said the surface is too smooth, the hardscape in this tank is going to be completly covered in moss and bucephelandras , piptospathas and other plants that will need something to grab onto, I'm considering using coconut coir pushed into some sort of adhesive as well because it will stay moist and make a great surface for the moss, the concern there is the visual affect until the moss grows in and as well all know moss isn't always the most prolific grower. A sanded grout seems to be my best bet but everyone recommends acrylic polomer in it to strengthen it the probelem there is it now becomes waterproof and may not be very good for moss growth. Real sandstone is also an option I'm mulling. I was thinking of doing a penisula out of the 65g tank with a pile of rocks in the back sloping down to a pool in the front of the tank with a rock jutting into the pool covered in buces and moss. I figured I can plant into the voids between the rocks like ferns, the macodes orchis I got and other less auqatic plants then have water trickling down the rock pile with Buces and piptospatha on them.

Len


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## hydrophyte

I might try one more coat of the Drylok with shredded coco sprinkled on while it's still wet. The coco will eventually slough off as it decomposes, but the painted surface may remain more naturally-textured and with a little more bight for plants to hold onto. Maybe, I don't know.


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## 150EH

I've renovated tons of bathrooms and kitchens and the poly will not really make it water proof but will give it better properties in resisting damage from water and some elasticity to prevent cranking, in any event the moss would grow just like in the video mostly by capillary action of the water being drawn up from below, mist, and splashing, I think you'll be fine. The sanded grout also gives a more natural texture and a bit of tooth for roots to grab hold not to mention the color is in the grout and not a top coat so chipping or a scratch won't require any repair to hide a color below but will make it look more authentic. Plus I think this is another area were the poly helps separate the grout from the roots so they don't burned by lime content, etc.


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## lbacha

Well after spending alot of money on foam, grout and other thinks to make fake rocks I may have found a better alternative there is a company www.vivariumworks.com that makes artificial rocks out of foam. the rock texture itself is actually the foam so it should be faily inert and it weighs nothing. I have been emailing the owner back and forth and we are thinking an open cell foam outside layer with a closed foam core for support would allow the rocks to absorb some moister withough getting too waterlogged and possibly causing anerobic zones. Does anyone have any thoughts on this concept for growing moss and of course bucephalandras. His rocks are very nice looking and since he can custom color them I can get exactly the look I'm going for. 

He can do them in closed cell foam, no moisture retension or resin rigid and no absorabancy. I'm not sure these options would work for growing plants on the rocks, the open cell kinda like a real dense sponge seems the best to me and the closest to sandstone which in this stream environment would be permanently soaked through anyways.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Wow he has really nice stuff. 

In my experience there are quite a few plants that root really well in open-cell foam. I bet it will work well for the buces.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Wow he has really nice stuff.
> 
> In my experience there are quite a few plants that root really well in open-cell foam. I bet it will work well for the buces.


That is my thought as well and his stuff is amazing, open cell seems like it has better positives than using grout over foam with the only negative being that it may hold too much water and get anerobic or have other bad things growing in it. I think if we go with a 1" layer of the open cell over a core of closed cell this will be eliminated though. He is actually going to see if he can find some rocks that have a stream worn look like the pictures I gave him and he may cast me some custom molds. I'm really excited about the prospects of this. There is no way I could get this quality on my own and since the buces will be very slow growing the rocks need to be top notch if the terrarium is going to look good while they grow in.

Len


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## lbacha

Well guys here it is the foam rocks were custom made for me along with a pretty neat background, what do you think. The whole bottom of the tank will be buce covered boulders and the background will have plant pockets cut into it and have terrestrial plants in it.










Len


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## 150EH

Wow, that's huge and the weight would be out of sight if they were all natural, so I guess they must be faux but you can't tell at all. I think it's really cool and very well done, who did the work for you?

I can't wait to see the rest, you gotta love folks that have big ideas and then follow through, it's going to be awesome but you might have to rent that 2 bedroom next door.

More, more, more!!!! :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## lbacha

Yeah they are made of opencell foam so they will hold some moisture which will be huge for moss and plant growth They are currently hollow but I'm trying to decide if I want them to be filled with a rigid foam to add stability, all that rock is probably less than 20lbs. As for the bigger apartment, you arn't kidding, I may need to get a house soon if I keep it up, now I have to decide on a size tank for the rocks, I'm thinking a 65 or 75.

The place I got the rocks is www.vivariumworks.com

pic of the back of the large rocks the small ones are solid foam.









Len


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## looking4roselines

Those rocks look really well made. The only down side for me is they would float and using silicone to anchor it down will limit the scape possibilities if it is flooded. Other than that, they look great


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## chad320

Wow Len, I cant wait to see this put together. And smothered in buce  The rockwork looks great so far!


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Those rocks look really well made. The only down side for me is they would float and using silicone to anchor it down will limit the scape possibilities if it is flooded. Other than that, they look great


They are actually hollow so I'm thinking of foaming bricks into them to add weight or I will silicone threaded acrylic rod onto the bottom and I will then screw the rocks down, the benefit of foam is I can cut a chunk out and the replace it or smear clay into the hole. While I'm concerned about the foam floating, Steve (the owner of vivariumworks) showed me a sample paludarium he built with rocks like mine and 10" of water and no issues with floating once siliconed down. I would like them to be easier to remove so I'm thinking the rods is the best, way.

Len


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## lbacha

150EH said:


> Wow, that's huge and the weight would be out of sight if they were all natural, so I guess they must be faux but you can't tell at all. I think it's really cool and very well done, who did the work for you?
> 
> I can't wait to see the rest, you gotta love folks that have big ideas and then follow through, it's going to be awesome but you might have to rent that 2 bedroom next door.
> 
> More, more, more!!!! :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:


Thanks ill probably plant a Buce or two on a rock once I get them to see how they well they grow on the foam but I'm not sure when I will do the full scape maybe between Christmas and new year. I'm really torn on tank sizes right now, I want a 36" x 24" footprint but they are ridiculously expensive, I really don't need the thick glass taller aquariums need bso I may need to go the custom built route to save on the cost.

Len


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## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Wow Len, I cant wait to see this put together. And smothered in buce  The rockwork looks great so far!


Well Chad one of your sintang's will probably get planted on the first rock so you will have some investment in this project as you raised the first plant, lol...

Len


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## chad320

lbacha said:


> Well Chad one of your sintang's will probably get planted on the first rock so you will have some investment in this project as you raised the first plant, lol...
> 
> Len


Awesome  Man, I cant get over how cool these rocks are. This is going to be HUGE! :icon_eek:


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## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Awesome  Man, I cant get over how cool these rocks are. This is going to be HUGE! :icon_eek:


Once I saw some of his work I had to pull the trigger on them, I'm going to use the background as a waterfall, it will have a slow trickle most of the time then when I flood the the tank it will have a higher volume of water I want to put some roots on either side so it looks like a little side stream emptying between a couple trees into the main stream. I think I may need a 4' tank maybe a 120g 48" x 24" x 24" to make this look right. I have always wanted a tropical terrarium but I hate the "way too overgrown look" most tropical plants give (they just wernt ment to be a confined in sush a small space) these buces as well as some of the other plants I've found will stay small, grow slow and really make this look like a tropical stream as they fill in I will then surround the tank with tropical houseplants so it will continue the theme I have in my apartment right now.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Wow those look really nice, and that was amazingly fast turnaround too. I can't believe he built those in just a few days.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Wow those look really nice, and that was amazingly fast turnaround too. I can't believe he built those in just a few days.


He did it all on saturday, just a matter of mixing the foam and pouring into the molds, the key is making all those nice molds. He even went out of the way to order the open cell foam before I even commited to the order, I havn't even paid yet, the service is great. It something he is doing while going through college, I did the same thing in college (made money off a hobby) 

Len


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## 150EH

Well I wanted to build my own 12g super long but it was going to cost me $10 than one company and $40 more than another and I had to ride 45 minutes to meet their tractor trailer in Baltimore, so not going to happen. But I think you could easily build your own Acrylic tank if you have a good plastics company near by but you are right in needing a custom tank and it almost need to be square or at least very deep.

The only draw back I see to the hollow stones are fauna getting behind them but I don't know what type of creatures your thinking about if any, but they could easily be attached to some base or background foam that could be hidden with substrate, paint, plants, etc. 

Nice find on the company and I saved the link, you never know!!! I can't wait to see what you'll come up with but I love the fact that your all in!


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## klaus07

I have this _Scismatoglottis_ 'Frosty Kiss' which is a real nice riparium plant. That 'Frosty Kiss' is just the variety name and I lost track of the species, but I am pretty sure the species is from Malaysia and not Borneo.


Frosty kiss is a pusilla variety grown commercially in Malaysia, but interestingly is native to the Philippines. I have been looking for that one, do you know of a place that has it for sale?

Klaus


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## lbacha

I actually just got a 'frosty kiss' and a second one S picta from another forum member hydrophyte, you may want to try him, I also have another one that may be another frosty kiss but it is really small so I need to let it grow.

Len


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## lbacha

Ok it might seem like this is slow going but there is a lot of research going into this, so far here is what I have going

Tank: 75g (48x18x21) this was the hardest part deciding on a size

Stand: custom, I will build to match my aquarium over Christmas 

Controllers: probably going with a ecozone controller which will control lights, temp, humidity and air circulation, it is programmable to have different a setting 365 days a year and it can dim lights for dusk/dawn effects pretty neat if you ask me.

Lights: dimmable t-8 or t-5 normal outputs, this is a jungle tank so light doesn't need to be high

Humidity: mistking I already have it and it is awesome 

Air circulation: Intank fans but would like to be able to force humid air in from the outside this is my research topic right now, I have to figure outbhow to keep the glass clear as well, I'm thinking warm air blown on the outside onto the glasslike a defroster in a car.

Hardscape: foam rocks see pictures up above 

Water and filtration: there will be a 40 breeder as a sump and the tank will be setup to have varying water levels to mimic wet and dry seasons. The back wall will be a waterfall that will have a varying flow rate to mimic rain flow 

Well I've been adding plants to my collection to fill this at a fast rate see my emersed thread now I need to start collecting some good mosses to add to the tank

Let me know what you think

Len


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## 150EH

The controller sounds super cool and I'm not going to google it and look, I got so close to buying a ReefKepper once, so I'm scared to look.

The Air circulation seem like a good way to heat the whole tank.

I think it is going to be highly disturbing and I may need therapy after I see this thing put together.


----------



## lbacha

150EH said:


> The controller sounds super cool and I'm not going to google it and look, I got so close to buying a ReefKepper once, so I'm scared to look.
> 
> The Air circulation seem like a good way to heat the whole tank.
> 
> I think it is going to be highly disturbing and I may need therapy after I see this thing put together.


Yeah I wouldn't look, it is essentially a reef keeper for terrariums, I built the high tech planted tank I had wanted since high school earlier this year and this is now the terrarium I've always wanted. I will warn people that I plan on getting all the bells and whistles, lol. I always had to improvise on my reef tanks because of funds now that I have funds I'm doing things right, lol

Len


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## hydrophyte

I can't wait to see more pictures.


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## wabisabi

Those are some pretty awesome rocks. Very realistic. 

Yes, more pics!


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## lbacha

The rocks will be here next week, I'll post pics once I get them of potential hardscapes, I really don't have much to take pics of other than plants and they are in my emersed thread, I really can't wait to start playing with the rocks and see what I can create

Len


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## hydrophyte

Ya know I am now pondering doing something like a loos Borneo biotope withthe planting in my 56G. I just placed an order and only just realized that _Barbus rhombocellatus_ that I included is a Borneo fish and I will be getting a group of those. I have a single _Steatocranus_ cichlid (from West Africa), but I might have to leave him in there because he's a really cool fish. I could add the barbs and maybe also some kind of appropriate species _Betta_ and then also work on the plants. Apparently none of those rheophytic palms that I have in there are from Borneo, but most of them are from SE Asia. If I could get my hands some _Piptospatha_ I could add one of those and also a _Bucephalandra_ or two on the trellis rafts.


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## lbacha

You keep hinting at that piptospatha Devin at the rate it's growing for me we may be able to work something out, I'm not sure how it multiplies yet so we'll have to wait and see there, the schitsoglottis's are looking good as is the palm..

On another exciting note I got the first box of rocks yesterday and they are amazing, I may have got more than I need, lol. Just wait till you see the pics, one of them is huge and would fill up a whole 40b by itself. The texture on them is perfect as well, nice and rough and even though it is open cell foam (like a sponge) the surface is fairly hard so it should plant and hold up well. Now to make some room in my emersed tank and plant some buces on one..

Len


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## hydrophyte

I look forward to seeing pictures of those rocks. If you think of it it would be great to see close-up detail of the finish. 

Hey I'm glad that those plants are looking good. I saw your other PM I think I forgot to answer. I apologize those schisms dried up a little in the mail but it sounds like they are coming around. I had those going in a high-humidity growout, so I can imagine that the leaves suffered a bit. Those plants grow with real extensive rhizomes however so they can recover from leaf loss easy. I got more dwarfish palms here but like you said they are dangerous because they get to be addictive. I can't get enough of them.

I just got my box with the _Barbus rhombocellatus_ and they look fantastic. I think I will go ahead and try to turn that setup into something more like a loose Borneo biotope. I just need to figure out something for the catfish and cichlid that I have in there now.


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## lbacha

I didn't take any macro shots before I left (I got home at 11pm last night and ha to fly out at 7am this morning) I will this weekend though, the surface on the big stones is nice and rough so I think it will be great for moss and plants, the small stones are smoother but I think they were molds of granite river stones so that is to be expected, as for the plants they all rebounded and no leaf loss there is actually some new leaves sprouting, its good to know that not all plants in the schismatoglottideae family are slow grows gives me hope for the piptospatha. The loas Borneo riparian sounds like a cool idea.

Len


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## lbacha

Here are some pics of the rocks I got yesterday, the rest came today but I'm on the road so I won't see them till Friday :icon_sad:, the pictures are a little washed out it was late last night when I got home so I just used the point and click they are actually alot darker in person and I will try to get better pics when I get home this weekend. 

A whole pile on my 40 breeder (I still have 2 large rocks coming, I may need to go bigger than a 75)

















Individual rocks the texture is rwally nice and rough on these they will be great for planting moss and buces,
Rock 1

















Rock 2

















Rock 3

















Really big rock (This one is hollow and it may not be used in the tank I was planning on putting housplants around the tank and this may be part of the display it would take up half the tank otherwise lol)

























Small rocks, (these are smoother than I would like but I think they were smooth river stones so I'll live with it) they will be great accent peices for in between the terrarium, I can't wait till some one comes over and I can throw one at them and scare the crap out of them :icon_evil:icon_evil:icon_evil

















And here is a teaser shot just for you Devin, my piptospatha sp. that will be at home on one of these nice custom rocks.










Enjoy Len


----------



## looking4roselines

They look pretty realistic and a lot bigger than what I had in mind. You are going to have to wait a very long time to have the buce to fill the surfaces. Are you going to reshape any of the larger rocks for your scape? 

The pebbles appear to be a lot darker than the boulders. The shapes,color, and texture looks a little bit off from the boulders though.

They look good overall but I think I would still prefer the real stuff over the foams. 

I picked up a few nice ones for my 90g over the weekend but they're pretty heavy. I might have to reinforce my stand so the acrylic at the bottom wont sag. They weight 30-50lbs easily. 

The flower bud on the green velvet opened up tonight as expected. Ill post them up in a bit.


----------



## lbacha

The color is actually the same on the large and small rocks the pics just came out bad, I will take better shots this weekend, the surface is definitly different though, the little ones are smooth but I'm planning on using them underwater so it may not matter, i'm planning on cutting some of the rocks to make them fit the corners and sides better. Alot of the reason I went with the more realist rocks was because I knew it would take a while to grow in. I really like the idea of real rocks too but I want to be able to move the terrarium intact if I have to move out of the apartment and real rocks wouldn't do. I was at our cabin this weekend and I grabbed a few nice aged sandstones from the rock pile we have and even small ones just weighed alot so a full tank of them would be impossible to move without having issues. I also think small spots of buces will look good at first and as they grow in they will look better. I can't wait to start working on some hardscapes this weekend with the rocks and the background.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte

So the large rocks are made of an open-cell foam?? I'd be interested to see macro shots of that. Is is the same foam all the way through or do they have a coating on top of the open-cell foam?

I have the new iteration for my 56 more thought out. At this point I think I will have the _Barbus rhombocellatus_ that I just in combination with a pair of _Betta pugnax_. I also want to replace the _Crypt. wendtii_ vars. that I currently have in there with Borneo-representative underwater plants. Have you compiled or have you seen anywhere a list with Borneo crypts that are around in the hobby?


----------



## hydrophyte

Oh shoot with a quick search I turned up this TFH article by Michal Lo right away...

The Aquatic Aroid Cryptocoryne and Its Habitats in Malaysian Borneo


----------



## looking4roselines

hydrophyte said:


> ...Have you compiled or have you seen anywhere a list with Borneo crypts that are around in the hobby?


Here is a distribution list from Jan's crypt pages. There are quite a few that are already in circulation:
http://crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/Countries/Borneo.html


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## hydrophyte

Oh thanks for that link.

I have _C. cordata_ and _C. ciliata_ sitting downstairs.

I could use the _C. ciliata_ in a riparium planter. I'll stick the _C. cordata_ in the underwater area right now!


----------



## lbacha

You guys beat me to it, those are the same places I came up with my list of crypts from, remember the Cordata is a blackwater crypt and the ciliata is considered a tidal crypt because it lives in tidal swamps and can handle salt. I have an excel sheet with all the Borneo plants I have identified I will clean it up and send it to you..

Len


----------



## chad320

Bjastmeijers pages took me a long way in crypt collecting. As well as Jungle Mike did for Buce. The rocks look great. I cant wait to see pics of what you do with them


----------



## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Bjastmeijers pages took me a long way in crypt collecting. As well as Jungle Mike did for Buce. The rocks look great. I cant wait to see pics of what you do with them


I agree those are great resources, jungle mikes various blogs and threads are the inspiration for this whole project, almost every plant I have now came as a result of looking at his pics then researching and sourcing the plants I saw in them, for anyone seeing this check out his pics, I'll post a link on the first page to one of his threads if you look there is probably a couple in this thread already.

Len


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> So the large rocks are made of an open-cell foam?? I'd be interested to see macro shots of that. Is is the same foam all the way through or do they have a coating on top of the open-cell foam?
> 
> I have the new iteration for my 56 more thought out. At this point I think I will have the _Barbus rhombocellatus_ that I just in combination with a pair of _Betta pugnax_. I also want to replace the _Crypt. wendtii_ vars. that I currently have in there with Borneo-representative underwater plants. Have you compiled or have you seen anywhere a list with Borneo crypts that are around in the hobby?


The foam is open cell on the surface (it's a really dense open cell but will still stay moist) and a closed cell core, there is probably 1" of open cell and the rest closed the really big one is actually hollow. You can actually squeeze the rocks and they will compress. He actually sent me a sample rock made of all closed cell and it is hard as a rock, no pun intended, I don't think they would have worked for planting on. I will post macro shots this weekend.


----------



## lbacha

Here is a closeup of the surface of the rocks, it's nice and rough like sandstone so I think it will work well for attaching plants too..


























Here are most of rocks mixed in with my houseplants

















Here is my first attempt at planting Buce's on a foam rock, I still need to add some moss to make it look more realistic and I'm sure some algae will start to grow that will take the uniform look of the rock away but the initial trail looks good so far.









Len


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## hydrophyte

Fantastic! Thanks for showing that rock close-up. I wonder how he makes those things(????).

Nice houseplants too! What is that one near with the real vertical leaf petioles just to the right of center in this picture?



lbacha said:


>


----------



## lbacha

He explained the whole process for me, we did some customizing on the type of foam so he explained how it works and what the end results would be. For these he uses a two part foam that when mixed will react with the moisture in the air (It is the same stuff as in greatstuff except the type he used for me was open cell) he mixes color into the mixture to give it a dark base. He then adds iron oxide powder to the molds so that he gets the varying colors on the final rocks. They are just cast into rubber molds of real rocks, if you checkout his web site I think he has some picks of the process www.vivariaworks.com

As for the plant it is Alocasia lauterbachiana (of course it's an aroid), I thought it was a really cool alocasia, I struggle with them in my apartment though because they like to go into their dormant stage all the time becuase of the temps in the fall and winter, I have kept the apt warm so far this year so it hasn't lost it's leaves yet. It should get about 4 feet tall when it is fully grown.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Thanks for that quick explanation! I gotta round stuff up and give it a shot.

I have made latex rubber + plaster mother mold casts before and it's not so hard to do.

Oh I have see that _Alocasia_ before. I think yours has grown longer petioles.


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## hydrophyte

Hey man, look at this crazy plant group that I just stumbled upon while goofing around...

Google: _Haguana_

One of the image results shows a specimen that Michael Lo found.

Oh I just found a scientific illustration (http://128.253.177.186/imgs/ws1/r/Hanguanaceae_Hanguana_anthelminthica_15509.html)...


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## lbacha

I think doing it yourself wouldn't be too hard but there would be a lot of work involved in making molds, I'm happy with my choice to have them made I just wish I would have done it before spending a bunch on materials to make foam and grout rocks. Oh yeah an my kitchen table is a mess right now because of this. 

I don't think that Alocasia really likes where it's at, I have tried a couple different ones and they never do well no matter where I put them, the humidity stays around 55% in that corner and it gets alot of spilliver light from the aquarium and everything else grows great except for them..

Len


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## hydrophyte

Hey I was just looking around and just earlier this year somebody described a rheophytic orchid from Borneo, _Bulbophyllum rheophyton_. Maybe that is the same plant that Micheal Lo found. The article is available free online! Look for "Download Article" here...

http://www.springerimages.com/Images/LifeSciences/1-10.1007_s00606-011-0420-8-0


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## lbacha

That's funny I actually have a whole article on that orchid in my files, I would love to find a sample of it for my tank. The one mike found has more undulated leaves so I'm not sure if they are the same.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Yeah I thought that the drawing looked a little different from those pictures that you had linked. That is so weird for a _Bulbophhyllum_ to grow as a rheophyte because they are normally such epiphytic plants. I looked around some and can't see any evidence that the _B. rheophyton_ is in cultivation. 

Hey I just tracked down and ordered a Malaysia plant that is a rheophytic grass and fairly popular garden subject in warmer areas, _Setaria palmifolia_. It is a real attractive plant and it might grow in a riparium. It looks a lot like a palm seedling and has attractively pleated leaves.


----------



## lbacha

Well I just got some Bakoa sp. (awesome looking plant exactly what I envision a rheophytic plant looking) my experiment with B sintang on one of my foam rocks is working well it already has roots attached to the foam and new leaves, I'll post some pics tommorrow. I'm getting excited the hardscape and tank will be set up over the week between christmas and new years so I'm getting close.

Len


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## 150EH

It's looks like you may need a bigger tank, I think moss on the rock will help all around with keeping roots wet etc, but it looks good so far.


----------



## lbacha

150EH said:


> It's looks like you may need a bigger tank, I think moss on the rock will help all around with keeping roots wet etc, but it looks good so far.


I agree, I have some peacock and christmas moss coming to try. I don't like java moss it's too stringy so untill I find the right moss I'm going to leave it bare.

Len


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## zachary908

lbacha said:


> I agree, I have some peacock and christmas moss coming to try. I don't like java moss it's too stringy so untill I find the right moss I'm going to leave it bare.
> 
> Len


Christmas moss looks really nice emersed. :thumbsup:


----------



## lbacha

150EH said:


> It's looks like you may need a bigger tank, I think moss on the rock will help all around with keeping roots wet etc, but it looks good so far.


I'm not sure I need to worry about keeping the roots wet, I was taking pics of the sintang and there is already a nice sheen of algae growing on the rock due to the moisture the foam really holds the moisture well, I think it will be a great substrate for Bucephalandra I just planted some on rock wool as well I think it will do well to, also for all you newbie (me included) Buce owners watch using java moss in the pots it is trying to take over my plants.

Len


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## chad320

Hey Len, Ive got some Mini Rose moss and Notocyphus that might fit this tank well. Ive also got 3 more Sintang if you want to do some swapping.


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## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Hey Len, Ive got some Mini Rose moss and Notocyphus that might fit this tank well. Ive also got 3 more Sintang if you want to do some swapping.


Chad

I'm definitely interested in the Mini Rose and Notocyphus, I want a small compact moss and I hear they fit the bill I have some Christmas and peacock moss on the way and some UG to try, I figured get as many types aspossible and see whati like (I'm not a fan of java it's too stringy). As for the sintang I need to get my Blue shine growing quicker so I have something to trade to you, I just set up a 10 gallon submersed tank that should be done cycling so I'm going to put it in there and see if that helps. Once I have some it's yours. At the rate stuff is growing I'm thinking in about 3 months I will have alot of trade material. I'm sure we can work out some deals. It's funny while I built my collection up quick I've only been back in the hobby 6 months and only 3 months since I got my first Buce. I took a long hiatus but the 20 years of keeping tanks before that has really got the bug going. 

Len


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## chad320

Well since you have to wait, I also have Singapore, Taiwan, peacock, Christmas(small), java, weeping, pellia, mini pellia, asterella, subwassertang, plagioanum, flame, and star moss. Along with about 5 unidentifieds.


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## lbacha

You like your mosses, I'm really looking for something that will stay compact and not be too invasive, almost like a terrestrial but I want to stick with aquatic mosses because the moisture will be extremly high in this tank, I'm afraid most terrestrial will not like the moisture without periods to dry in between. I should have the hardscape finished by new years and planting and growing in will be a long process because I want to stick with slow growing aroids and I'm thinking C keei will be my aquatic choice. Now on the other hand if you need some other plants my aquarium (aka overgrown mess) is going to get a huge trim in the next week so I will have a ton of A reinekii, java fern, h pinnatifida, c wendtii tropic & mi oyi, possibly some pahang mutated runners, h corymbosa and some c undulata. I have to get it ready for some more C keei and affinis I'm getting from Xue as well as some c Ideii I got from him last week.

Len


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## chad320

Thanks Len. Ive got all those. Stupid collectiritus :icon_roll I cant wait to see what you do with it. I loved the first scape  As for this tank, it would be super cool if you could get asterella to grow up the wall in the back. As for a good dense mat type moss, flame only gets an inch tall tops and makes a nice grassy carpet.Plagio stays REAL short and makes a cool cover.


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## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Thanks Len. Ive got all those. Stupid collectiritus :icon_roll I cant wait to see what you do with it. I loved the first scape  As for this tank, it would be super cool if you could get asterella to grow up the wall in the back. As for a good dense mat type moss, flame only gets an inch tall tops and makes a nice grassy carpet.Plagio stays REAL short and makes a cool cover.


I figured you had most of what's in my tank I started with more common stuff and now going to replace it with harder to find and slower growing plants, I'm really torn on what to put in the background though not sure if I want another stem or something else. I'm thinking a macranda or some of that nice and red ludwigia.

Len


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## inka4041

I would seriously go with riccardia for your "moss". It grows gangbusters emersed in my viv, and you can get pretty big sheets of it for much cheaper than the aquatic stuff goes for. PM me for details, and I'll send along the email of the guy I get it from. In any case, this setup is shaping up to be incredible, and the source material you're working from is absolutely stunning.


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## lbacha

Riccardia is definitely an option it is from the area I believe so it would fit the biotope requirements. Does it get invasive of other slower growing plants or does it just stay low to the substrate. My biggest concern is that some moss will take over anything slower growing than them, java is a good example..

Len


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## inka4041

It's slow. Not as slow as schistochila ime, but pretty dang slow. It can easily get overtaken by other mosses. Low is one way to put the growth pattern, lol. Ime, it grows out, rather than up. Here it is in my dart viv. 

http://imgur.com/meNJq

It's been in that spot for maybe 2 months now, and has started resuming active growth. I find that they will sit there and do nothing all summer, and start putting out a lot of new growth as soon as the temperatures drop.


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## lbacha

Ok so here is the plan for mounting the foam rocks, I'm going to zip tie egg crate to the bottom of them, then I'm going to take 1/4" glass cut in 2" strips with holes drilled into it, I'm going to put acrylic bolts through the holes I'm then going to silicone the glass strips to the bottom of the tank forming threaded studs that I can screw the eggcrate mounted rocks to, this way the rocks are removable and I don't have to drill the bottom the the tank for the studs.

Len


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## lbacha

Ok so here is the first proposed scape, the brown will be great stuff covered in coco coir for planting terrestrial plants on so essentially the rock water fall background will be framed by plants on either side, The light tan will be a shelve of sand and the blue will be water.

Biotope I want to recreate

























Scenario #1 (Rock centerpiece)

Cons: two even with the waterfall right in the middle it may seem too even, I usually try to make features offcenter, The left side will have a bigger pile of rocks and I think I can offset it by planting the bakoa sp on on side of the waterfall background.

Here is the photo unedited









Here is the photo showing sand, water and GS with coc coir









Scenario #2 (Open center)

Cons: too much water in the center, may not be as much planting area as I would like.

Here is the phote unedited









Here is the phote wit GS adn coco coir and water









Please let me know your thoughts

Thanks Len


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## looking4roselines

I like the second scenario much better than the first 

You can plant a field of submerged crypts in the water and raise the substrate around the edge of the rocks for more emerged crypts


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## chad320

I agree with Xue. Emergent crypts coming from the water or even mats of emergent mosses around the rocks at the waterline would take up alot of water space.


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## DogFish

Len - The open center scape has a more "relaxed" look to it.


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## lbacha

I agree I'm going with a more open look here is a shot in the tank I'm thinking of just lowering the water level during the dry season do the crypts in the water will bloom 









Len


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## looking4roselines

Were you able to get your biotope planted over your Christmas weekend?


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## lbacha

I'm working on the stand right now once it's done planting can take place


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## lbacha

Well let me tell you while I haven't planted anything yet I have made some serious progress, the stand is for the most part built I need to add some magnets to the doors and stain and polyurethane it and it's done, and I've started playing with great stuff so that's a good sign as well, I'm going to drill the tank tommorrow and then it will take the trip from my parents to my apartment 























Len


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## looking4roselines

That is a nice looking stand. 

Are you going to leave any crevices to plant your buce in between those rocks? It would look awesome to see a few buce wedged between.


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## lbacha

I'm actually planning in planting the piptospatha in between those two rocks with buces on the lower rock at the water line, the good thing with foam is I can put pockets for plants anywhere, thanks on the stand this is going in my living room so it needs to look nice, I still need to build the matching canopy but that will come later 

Len


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## chad320

Nice looking stand. I cant wait to see it finished.


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## lbacha

Ok the stand was stained today and the tank was drilled, I did t get as much done as I wanted but the stand looks really nice an the hardscape is taking shape.

The stand is stained








Holes drilled this was easy








Dual returns so I can alter the water level
































You can see the plant pocket I formed out of foam.








Len


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## lbacha

Ok I have a substrate question, I want a sand bottom look but I want it to be a muddy looking sand if that makes sense, I was considering mixing aqua soil Malaya powder with sand to add some nutrients and ph control to the sand and give it that more muddy feel. Does anyone have a better idea for me, my biggest concern is I will have fairly high flow due to the waterfall and the fact I want it to be a stream so I'm concerned the substrate may go everywhere, I have an idea on how to limit this but I want to see what others think first,

Len


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## chad320

If you can make the water from the fall enter the bottom pool vertically rather than horizontally it will help a ton. My Malaya powder is easily blown around if the water hits it horizontally, even at failrly low flow, from about 12" up. Is there any way to make it spill onto a flatter type rock?


----------



## lbacha

chad320 said:


> If you can make the water from the fall enter the bottom pool vertically rather than horizontally it will help a ton. My Malaya powder is easily blown around if the water hits it horizontally, even at failrly low flow, from about 12" up. Is there any way to make it spill onto a flatter type rock?


So here is my plan for that, I'm actually going to put a layer of GS below the waterfall and silicon the substrate I plan on using on top of it so it looks like a sand bottom but is actually permananent, this way as the water hits it it won't erode it away, I will proabably do this right in front of the powerheads I plan on putting in there as well and to build up a sloipe for an emersed crypt area on the right side. I figure as long as I use the same substrate it should transition well.

Len


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## looking4roselines

Are you going to have one main waterfall? It might be good to fork it out to lessen the water impact. For the substrate, I would do larger gravel around the area where the impact will be.




lbacha said:


> Ok I have a substrate question, I want a sand bottom look but I want it to be a muddy looking sand if that makes sense, I was considering mixing aqua soil Malaya powder with sand to add some nutrients and ph control to the sand and give it that more muddy feel. Does anyone have a better idea for me, my biggest concern is I will have fairly high flow due to the waterfall and the fact I want it to be a stream so I'm concerned the substrate may go everywhere, I have an idea on how to limit this but I want to see what others think first,
> 
> Len


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## lbacha

It will normally be a trickle of water going over the back wall (it will be a 24" spray bar setup so its spread out) but I'm going to have a second pump that can get it really running when I simulate rainfall and the water level raising. Most will run right down the back I'm going to run it over a long airstone so it will look like it has been falling through rocks for a while and is really oxygenated, it will also make less water look like more. If this doesn't work I can always eliminate the excessive wat and go with it just being a drip wall and plant it with Bakoa and moss, I probably won't even run the water till the Bakoa roots so I don't wash it away. I also plan on putting Borneo fern on it too since it seems to need to stay really moist, it dried out in my 100% humidity emersed tank. I want to be able to lower the water to about 1.5" during the dry season to see if I can get the C keei in the water to bloom. I will normally keep it at about 4" and raise it to about 6-8" for a couple months a year. This should allow the plants to really grow the way they would in nature. I won't have plants under the waterfall so I'm going to get some gravel from the sandstone stream at my parents house and put that in there (disinfected first) to give it a more natural look. I also plan on having some foam rocks in the pool that will normally be submersed but exposed during low water and cover those in some buces. This tank will take a while to grow in the way I want it but once it does I think it will be pretty unique.

Len


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## aretreesfree

how is this project coming along? looks like it's getting pretty close. that stand is awesome.


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## ADA

Subscribed! I want to see this one evolve


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## lbacha

Ok just so people don't think I've abandoned this it is still moving along, since I only have weekends to work on it the silicone work is taking time to dry, the studs are in place to hold the rocks down I need to silicone the background to the back (hopefully this weekend) and then once everything is mounted I will fill some gaps with great stuff then silicone and coco coir on the great stuff and it's ready to fill. Seems simple but really is a lot harder than a aquarium hardscape. I will post some pics this weekend of the progress

Len


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## Wy Renegade

Subscribed to follow!


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## ADA

lbacha said:


> I agree I'm going with a more open look here is a shot in the tank I'm thinking of just lowering the water level during the dry season do the crypts in the water will bloom
> 
> View attachment 39246
> 
> 
> Len


That is absolutely amazing.. I know how difficult it is to build something like this, and this clean of a job too! I made one before and it didn't turn out nearly this good. I'm going to give it another try, after seeing this. Well done.


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## lbacha

Ok the background is siliconed in place, I still need to silicone all the seams but for the most part it is in place I also put a thin layer of black silicone on the sides to hide the foam I actually like the way it's coming out once I cover the foam in coco coir it will really be tied together I will post some pics when I get a chance of all the hardscape in place and the start of the siliconing. If anyone is interested in something like this join dendroboard they make setups like this all the time, maybe not as much with fake rocks but the foam and coco coir is common. 

I'll also post some pics of the piptospatha and bakoa that are going in there they are doing great and have really started looking healthy in my 40g emersed tank. I also obtained about 10 different mosses to see which I like the best so far mini christmas moss and Taiwan moss are the winners. 

Len


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## hydrophyte

Any more updates on this project?

I am working on my setup in the 56 again tonight.


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## lbacha

Yeah the hardscape is almost done, I have some pics to post but I've been lazy, i'll get them up today or tommorrow

Len


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## lbacha

Ok so here they are some pics of the progress so far. Just so you all know the Greatstuff foam will be covered in brown silicone then coco coir will be pushed into it to make a nice moisture absorbing layer that will look nice and natural.

Black silicone on the sides and bottom









Close up of the acrylic studs I put in place to hold down the foam rocks









Front shot with all the hardscape in place (there will be some wood added once everything is in place)









Close up of the background cut to shape









GS added to the back of the background to make it flat









Siliconing the background into place, the stones on there are some sandstone I got from my parent one or two of the them







will be used in the water section.


Greatstuff foam and net pots in place on the right side









Greatstuff foam and net pots almost finished on the left side









Here is the Greatstuff in the middle of the tank it is actually going to have sand siliconed onto it to make it look like the bottom, the reason for this is because I don't want the substrate washing away where the waterfall hits, The eggcrate was actually siliconed in place and is there to make sure the GS doesn't float up.









Front view with the foam on the two sides









Top view of the tank









And here are some teaser shots of the plants going into it.

Bakoa sp. just picture this on the rock face where the waterfall will be hanging down with water dripping off each leaf (waterfalls are it's natural habitat and I have 2 of these to put in here)









Bolbitis heteroclita here is a fern that is found around waterfalls in borneo and will be used to add some green to the background while the Bakoa fills in. (I have no idea how fast the Bakoa grows or if it will ever fill in , lol)









Here is a schismatoglottis sp. that is found all through asia (I want one more endemic to Borneo but it will be a fill in for now) it will be in one of the net puts at the water line and add some foliage to the sides alond with some aglaonema simplex I have which is found in Borneo as well.









Here is my newest aquisition a raphidophora korthalsii, it will probably outgrow the tank eventually but I plan on trimming it to keep it in check, it is a shingling plant and will be trained to go along the background or a log I plan on adding.









And finally the plant that started this whole thing the piptospatha sp. that I got from Xue. This thing looks better and better with every new leave it adds and will be planted in between a couple rocks a little above the water line.









Oh and here is some of the moss I'm growing out to add to the tank as well this is peacock but I have a tray of taiwan and mini christmas as well as some mini pelia to add.









Oh and for those of you that thing I forgot about the Bucephalandra I didn't I have a bunch of it ready to be added as well I just didn't take any new pics of it, there will also be a couple Jewel orchids planted as well. The water area will also be filled with C Keei along with submerged Buces and moss.

Enjoy Len


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## speedie408

You my friend, are a true Plant NUT! I mean that in a good way .


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## 150EH

speedie408 said:


> You my friend, are a true Plant NUT! I mean that in a good way .


Agreed! It looks like a royal pain in the butt, so I hope you are at least having fun and it's going to look awesome when you are finished.


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## lbacha

150EH said:


> Agreed! It looks like a royal pain in the butt, so I hope you are at least having fun and it's going to look awesome when you are finished.


Yeah you are dead on, this has turned into a much longer project than first anticipated but it's almost done and will be planted after I get back from Thailand. I learned alot from trolling the dendroboard forum. I really think watching this eveolve will be amazing because I know how much I like coming home to see what has changed in the emersed tanks and the plants are just thrown in there.

Len


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## 150EH

I think this is funny although you may not, but I got one of Hydrophytes Ripariums up on the screen and I call my wife over to take a look in hopes that she will just fall in love with it and and ask me to put one in the living room, instead after I say 'what do you think' and she replies 'I think his should put more water in his aquarium' I almost fell out of my chair laughing and my hopes for a Riparium were dashed.


----------



## lbacha

150EH said:


> I think this is funny although you may not, but I got one of Hydrophytes Ripariums up on the screen and I call my wife over to take a look in hopes that she will just fall in love with it and and ask me to put one in the living room, instead after I say 'what do you think' and she replies 'I think his should put more water in his aquarium' I almost fell out of my chair laughing and my hopes for a Riparium were dashed.


Now thats funny, I'm hoping people won't get this confused for an aquarium especially with the waterfall feature but who knows people suprise you all the time.

Len


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## looking4roselines

You've made good progress - good job putting it all together. You have also accumulated a nice collection of odd ball plants. This is going to be one sick terrarium.

I personally would have squeezed in a few more net planters in between those rocks to accomodate more species later. But I guess you can always carve it out when needed.

When you attach plants or moss against the foam later, these bobby pins should work well. I have been using these to anchor down my buce cuttings 
(pic i found on the internet)


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## hydrophyte

Wow you really tracked down some nice plants for this.


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> You've made good progress - good job putting it all together. You have also accumulated a nice collection of odd ball plants. This is going to be one sick terrarium.
> 
> I personally would have squeezed in a few more net planters in between those rocks to accomodate more species later. But I guess you can always carve it out when needed.
> 
> When you attach plants or moss against the foam later, these bobby pins should work well. I have been using these to anchor down my buce cuttings
> (pic i found on the internet)


The pots are more for bigger foliage plants, most of the small aroids will get pockets carved out of the rock so that it looks like they are growing naturally there, nice thing with foam is you can always carve a hole anywhere you want, I like the pin idea I will need to get some especiallt when I go to mount the Bakoa and ferns on the waterfall. 

Len


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Wow you really tracked down some nice plants for this.


 
You helped ha ha, that larger schismatoglottis is really going to look nice in there and it likes wet feet so it should do fine. I really wanted to make this tank all about odd plants that most people have never seen before or have only kept in collection style set-ups not in a natural display.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte

I hope that _Schismatoglottis_ will grow for you. If you can keep it happy it will grow lots of rhizomes with plantlets on the ends and you can use them for trades. 

I did a trade recently and got some real nice aroid climbers. If you need any more to fill in I might have something Borneo-authentic.


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> I hope that _Schismatoglottis_ will grow for you. If you can keep it happy it will grow lots of rhizomes with plantlets on the ends and you can use them for trades.
> 
> I did a trade recently and got some real nice aroid climbers. If you need any more to fill in I might have something Borneo-authentic.


If its from Borneo then I'm interested, I'm headed to Thailand next week so hopefully I can get some cool stuff while I'm there.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

lbacha said:


> If its from Borneo then I'm interested, I'm headed to Thailand next week so hopefully I can get some cool stuff while I'm there.
> 
> Len


 
Good luck bring them back. And please take lots of photos of their natural habitats
Just curious. Do you still plan on emailing my guy to arrange a collection trip?


----------



## 150EH

Yes you can but antibiotics should take care of it.

I've only seen photos of the LFS in Japan and they have everything but were in some little district IIRC like fishtown, it would be so cool if Thailand had the same. Some people have all the luck, how did you swing that trip????


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Good luck bring them back. And please take lots of photos of their natural habitats
> Just curious. Do you still plan on emailing my guy to arrange a collection trip?


I never did but if you pm me his email I'll get in touch with him I probably won't do a hardcore collection trip but if he can give me some ideas where I am go to take pictures that would be great, my brother is with me and he is on leave from afghanistan so this is more of a R&R trip. I am probably leaving 5 days earlier so I'll be there a full 14 days (I'm excited) as for bringing them back I'm looking into a place at the Bangkok airport that issues phytosanitary cert for collected plants this will probably be my best bet.

Len


----------



## Fishies_in_Philly

150EH said:


> Yes you can but antibiotics should take care of it.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......antibiotics...hee hee

sorry, that made me giggle....good one. on a more serious note, that is one heck of a setup and the plants are just out of this world. amazing job, can;t wait to see it grown in. should be amazing!!

-Bill


----------



## lbacha

150EH said:


> Yes you can but antibiotics should take care of it.
> 
> I've only seen photos of the LFS in Japan and they have everything but were in some little district IIRC like fishtown, it would be so cool if Thailand had the same. Some people have all the luck, how did you swing that trip????


I'm actually headed there to meet my brother who is on leave from Afghanistan, I travel for a living (consultant) so all my travel and rooms were covered by points, one of the perks of never being home I guess. I'm a big tropical rainforest fan plus I dive so this will be a lot of both those things.

Len


----------



## WinstonAMC

out of curiosity, where'd you get such a nice rhaphidophora?


----------



## lbacha

WinstonAMC said:


> out of curiosity, where'd you get such a nice rhaphidophora?


I got it from a member on dendroboard, they have some neat stuff up for sale over there on occasion. 

I'm really cureous to see how it works in a terrarium because those are just the young leaves and the full grown ones are really neat. The lower ones stay shinglers like that and as it grow towards the light the leaves get bigger and bigger

Len


----------



## inka4041

150EH said:


> I've only seen photos of the LFS in Japan and they have everything but were in some little district IIRC like fishtown, it would be so cool if Thailand had the same. Some people have all the luck, how did you swing that trip????


Jatujak market has a sprawling pet and fish section, as well as a huge plant market with a lot of cool goodies. The aquarium scene in Thailand is pretty high end, and us Thai people have a massive love affair with oddball plants, so don't be surprised if you run into A LOT of very cool stuff. I haven't been back in years. The food's probably what I miss most. 


This tank is getting so close. Can't wait for water and plants!


----------



## lbacha

For all you that have been following this thread I know it's been a while since I've posted anything and the project is going slower than planned. I just got back from a trip to Thailand (more inspiration) and I have no plans this weekend so we should see the hardscape finished and some substrate added (I should have a couple bags of ada sarawak sand waiting for me when I get home) I will also plumb it and put it on the stand. It may not get planted but it will be alot farther along and start to look like something, I will stick some plants in the net pots so you can get a feel for what it will look like as well. Oh yeah and lots of pics.

Stay tuned and enjoy.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Ok here are some teaser pics,

Coco Coir starting to be siliconed in place, Xue mentioned I needed more spots for plants and I agree so I cut a couple holes in the foam









Full tank shot









More to come

Len


----------



## lbacha

Hardscape is done and here is a shot with some plants in it










Now I'm headed to home depot to get some stuff to finish the plumbing on it

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

That is looking really good Len.
Looking forward to see the substrate added and crypts planted around the rocks 


Xue


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> That is looking really good Len.
> Looking forward to see the substrate added and crypts planted around the rocks
> 
> 
> Xue


Thanks,

It's really starting to come together, I think I'm going to let the silicone dry for a week before filling it but I did finish the plumbing and I ran it in the bathroom and I think it's going to work well a small flow with one pump and almost the whole back flowing with both pumps running. I'm probably going to to do an all sand substrate since its not going to be too deep and I like the look of the sarawak ADA sand (plus the name, lol) I'll plant the crypts and seed moss then start planting once im sure the parameters will stay right

Len


----------



## John7429

Amazing. I am tagging onto this thread


----------



## lbacha

Thanks, I'm really excited about this, aquariums have always been about collecting the equipment and some good rocks and wood and the artistic touch of laying it all out, this has really been alot of work building and designing things out of artificial material to look like nature. I really think it will be nice when it's done.

Len


----------



## majerah1

This is a really nice build!My macs are from Borneo and to see someone making a emersed setup from there is awesome!I may have to politely hit ya up for some crypts when they grow well, for my boys and girls.


----------



## lbacha

Well I filled it and the waterfall works great pictures to come tommorrow.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

wow. already filled? did you plant your buce yet>


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> wow. already filled? did you plant your buce yet>


Not planted yet, I'm off all next week so it will probably get planted with moss and crypts then I want the tank to establish itself for a a couple weeks before I put buces in there. The waterfall background is nice so the bakoa will look great with water flowing over their leaves


----------



## chad320

Wow, nice job Len! I cant wait to see what you put in there. If you need some mosses just let me know. BTW, have you seen some of the pic Mike Lo has been putting up? Amazing!


----------



## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Wow, nice job Len! I cant wait to see what you put in there. If you need some mosses just let me know. BTW, have you seen some of the pic Mike Lo has been putting up? Amazing!


This project started because of Jungle Mike's (Mike Lo) pics, I have looked through all his threads and blogs and they are amazing, while I though buces looked cool by themself in their natural habitat they are amazing. Half the plants I have are because I saw them in pics that Mike put up.

Len


----------



## chad320

He just put a pic up on his Facebook of a giant Buce. I want


----------



## lbacha

I promised pictures so here we go, the first plants are in the tank.

Here is shot of the tank in it's new home between my window and my aquarium, my big philodendron had to move to the other side of the room.









Here is a closer picture of the waterfall with it's normal water flow.









Here is the first plant to go into the tank, it's nothing special just a Aglaonema simplex but it is native to Borneo and an a good grower and foliage plant, it will probably get a little big for what I want but it is in a net pot with hydroton and sphagnum on top and i will grow moss around the base so it should be easy to remove when I find something a little more rare and exciting.









Here is the tank with the first plant in it.









Here is what my fog maker looks like, its just a humidifier from bed bath and beyond (Thanks Grimm for the idea I think this is the same one you are using)









Here is a shot of the waterfall with the fog kicking in, I'm not sure what type of cycle I will use the fog for it looks neat though but too much gets a little thick wait till you see the next picture.









And here it is after a couple minutes of running









Here is the A simplex and a Macodes petola that now has a new home as well.









Well folk I have a bit to go yet, the sarawak sand doesn't come till tommorrow so the substrate still needs put in the mistking will get added once I caqn find the 5/8" drill bit I bought to drill the holes for it. I won't set up the big ewaterfall till plants have had a little bit of time to establish themselfes, I don't want to wash the moss of the walls, lol..

I'll keep posting as I go this week.

Len


----------



## driftwoodhunter

So awesome - subscribed!


----------



## karatekid14

Wow, amazing! Now that you are almost done with the construction what are you thinking for native fish?


----------



## lbacha

karatekid14 said:


> Wow, amazing! Now that you are almost done with the construction what are you thinking for native fish?


I havn't even though about fish, Devin has done some research so I may get in touch with him, I really want some stream native fish for this but I also like the fact that I can lower the water almost all the way so that the crypts will be able to bloom once they are grown in. I may wait a while the plants alone will keep the tank interesting without fish added.

Len


----------



## Fishies_in_Philly

wow Len, that is just truly inspiring work. i hope my frog viv turns out half as nice as this when i am done. i can't wait to see the progress now that the planting has begun, although it is kind of a shame to cover up that wonderful background, but hey, that's the breaks..lol
-Bill


----------



## lbacha

The goal is to plant lightly to start an let it grow in, the majority of the hightlite/middle plants will be buces and piptospatha (very slow growing) and the waterfall will have bakoa (another Borneo endemic aroid) and fern on it. The water section will be a huge patch of C keei. I want the sides to fill in though to his it a shadow box effect and I think I need some wood in there but I havnt found the right piece yet. My biggest concern is miss taking over the rocks.

Len


----------



## Fishies_in_Philly

just a question, will that humidifier work with a timer? or did you have to modify the power switch for constant power. i only ask because most components like that default to power off when there is a loss of power and power must be restored manually, if that makes sense.
-Bill


----------



## lbacha

I had to find a humidifier that worked off a mechanical switch and not a digital one this is a cheap $59.00 sharper image one that has a on off switch and a dial for amount of mist you want, it also had a nice opening that I could epoxy a cpvc fitting into. Grimm gave me the idea on his big peninsula build so the credit goes to him. It works a lot better than the ultrasonic ones.

Len


----------



## Fishies_in_Philly

great idea grimm! and thanks for the info len. i like the capacity of that one over the ones i have been pricing for my viv build. and it's even about the same price, which is a bonus 

Bill


----------



## klaus07

*aroids in the mist*

I can see this tank growing in and it is going to be awesome. Proof positive that it pays big dividends to have patience as well as a plan. I noticed on Jan`s site Idei described a new Lagenandra species from the foothills of the Himalayas. I know it isn`t Borneo, but the rocks, streams and growth habit of the aroids reminds me of what you are doing with this setup. Seeing what you are doing is part of what makes coming to TPT so enjoyable.

Klaus 

ah the link for the new lagenandra:
http://crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/Botanical/Documents/Idei/Idei2012_LundulataUK.pdf


----------



## klaus07

*rasbora*

I recommed Rasbora lacrimula and Barbus (Puntius) foerschi. Both of them are very cool fish. For quiet ends of the pool, how about Betta macrostoma.


----------



## Ozydego

Something to consider, although if you already epoxied the fitting in... the fogger tube will eventually fill with condensed water and stop the flow of fog, or do you pull and drain the hose each time you fill it? I read on dendroboard about one guy that had to tweak his setup after the same issue.

Btw, inspiring work, working on a little 10 gal paludarium right now and subbed this thread to follow your progress


----------



## lbacha

Ozydego said:


> Something to consider, although if you already epoxied the fitting in... the fogger tube will eventually fill with condensed water and stop the flow of fog, or do you pull and drain the hose each time you fill it? I read on dendroboard about one guy that had to tweak his setup after the same issue.
> 
> Btw, inspiring work, working on a little 10 gal paludarium right now and subbed this thread to follow your progress


The tube runs straight down so no build up of water it's actually just a slip fitting that I didn't cement so I can easily remove it an make adjustments


----------



## speedie408

I'm gonna steal that humidifier mod idea too. Do you have a link to the mod page? 

btw your tank is coming along nicely Len.


----------



## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> I'm gonna steal that humidifier mod idea too. Do you have a link to the mod page?
> 
> btw your tank is coming along nicely Len.


No mod, Grimm just showed a shot of the humidifier on his dendroboard thread, but I can take some detail shots of what I did it was really simple a little different fitting than Grimm (I used plastic and he used brass) but I think the concept wa the same.

Len


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## WinstonAMC

looking good. If you want some ideas for fish etc, I have a pdf of a really cool book on indonesia that might help you out if you want to pm me


----------



## lbacha

So on the dendroboard forum they were commenting I new to go with a B macrostoma as well I didn't realize they get so big it may be a neat one pair setup for them. Now to figure out where you get them at.

I also just got the ADA Sarawak sand and put it in, I really like the color, I origianally though a whiter color would be cool but the yellowish brown is nice, I'll post a pic when the water clears up. I think I'm goin to add a drip line to the tank, there are a lot of splashes on the front glass and floating things in the water stick to the high water line I will use the drip line to wash the front glass off as well.

Len


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## jingleberry

Nice looking tank. The fog idea is nice, I'm interested to see how it was set up as well.


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## hydrophyte

That is looking great!

I agree a species _Betta_ would be really cool in there. There are usually a number of them on AquaBid.


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## lbacha

Here is a picture with a few more plant added, temp and humidity seem to be staying good 70-74 degrees F and 85-90% RH. I have the mister and fogger hooked up I'm experimenting with cracking the front hood for ventilation right now, I have no mechanical circulation but the air movement is surprisingly good I can fill the tank with fog and web I turn it off you can see the air movement.










Len


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## lbacha

Here is high water vs low water I plan on going a couple inches higher with the high water but my sump isn't big enough to hold the water right now.


















It looks bare but I'm testing humidity and temps while I adjust ventilation, water temps, mister and humidifier settings once it's all dialed in then the expensive plants will be added I actually have some new inhabitants pending thanks to Xue.

Len


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## looking4roselines

Looks too awesome Len. I want to see some buce crawling in the crevice between the two rocks to the left side.


----------



## hydrophyte

Looks great Len!


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## driftwoodhunter

this is really, really fine!


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## lbacha

Thanks guys I want to see the buces in there as well here is a reader shot of the buce nursery (I'm starting to to wonder if the long wave in the back left corner might be a piptospatha or Aridarum because it seems to be growing leaves from a central rhizome and not from a rhizomatic stem like most buces do.










Len


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## lbacha

I was sitting on the couch watching TV and couldn't help posting a picture of the corner now that the terrarium has been added, I think it really works well there I have a banana plant (musa sp. "Siam ruby") that will sit right behind the tank and throw it's leaves over the top of it. I plan on putting a moss pole between the two tanks and growing some vine plants up it.










Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## cableguy69846

This is freakin awesome.roud:


----------



## lbacha

I just planted a bunch of C keei (the main aquatic plant for the set-up) here are the pics of the fun.

Mass of C keei that showed up in the mail yesterday









The substrate is inert sand so I decided to doctor it up where I planted the keei. First I dug a hole where I wanted a plant









I then added some used Aqua Soil Malaya to help add some nutrients to the sand









Sand and Malaya mixed in the holes









I then inserted Root Medic root tabs in each hole









Here is a shot of all the C keei planted before I added water









Check out the size of the plant near the top (yellow arrow) it's huge









And finally a FTS with water









Here are a couple new aroids for the tank as well

Piptospatha manduensis









Aridarum sp.









And a second Aridarum sp. (we think it is caulescens) it looks like a small Bakoa









Enjoy Len


----------



## looking4roselines

They look awesome Len. The keei in the back has a lot of cathaphyls at the base of the plant. I hope it will flower for you once it is reestablished. 

The clay pellets are on their way. This should help color them up a bit.


----------



## lbacha

Ok guys and gals I need some help, if you don't know this tank was built to be a biotope for Bucephalandra. Some of you realize but maybe not all that there is only one recognized species in the hobby and it is Bucephalanda motleyana. All the different looking ones are just ecotypes of that species. An ecotype is a variation to a plant based on where it lives. This means that you wont see more than one type of Bucephlandra in any one area. Because of this I'm torn on how I want to plant the Buces in my tank. I really think I want to keep to one type and lots of it. I think the look will be alot better than a hodge podge of differnt types. Now comes the hard part what type do I go with. I have narrowed it down to creeping varieties (these are ones who's stem creeps along the rock or substrate and shoots leaves off of it). The three types I have and can get multiple additions of are pictures below. I would like to know what everyone else things for the tank. If anyone has another idea let me know but please don't choose off the wall varieties that I can't get multiple plants of.

Here we go

Sintang - this is a mid sized species with thinner wavy leaves, it is mainly found out of water in thick mats in it's natural habitat









Shine Blue (shine green is a choice as well its just greener) this is a little bigger than the sintang has a dark oval shaped leave with a little wavyness to the leaves. 









N Sanggau - this is a larger Buce with straight edged leaves. It has a thick rhizome/stem









Here are all three next to each other









Thanks for the help

Len


----------



## hydrophyte

Those plants are awesome.


----------



## wabisabi

I agree with avoiding the hodge podge look. My vote would be to go with the shine blue only because it seems to grow the fastest for me and you would need a lot of growth/plants to make the tank resemble their growth pattern in nature. The sintang also grows at a good pace as well but not as fast as the shine blue IME. Personally I like the look of sintang better though.


----------



## Fishies_in_Philly

is a mix of shine blue and shine green an option? if it is, i would go that route. that way you still only have the solo ecotype, however you get the look of two. unless the shine green is a different ecotype than the shine blue?


----------



## looking4roselines

I personally like the floppy leaves on the shine green/blue variety. These are also faster growing than most of the sp. I have. I am with Steve on this one.

If you must use more than one sp, what's your opinion on using larger forms in the back corners?


----------



## lbacha

I was kinda vering towards the shine's I already Planned on using the longwave and green velvet as solo plants because they are so much bigger than the buces that are more of a carpeting variety. If I stick with the shine green and blue I could do a rock in each one you may not even notice because emersed they look pretty close. I also like the thicker heaver rhizome often shines I had a sintang melt and it completely melted because the rhizome is so thin on the other hand half of my shine green melted and the rhizome where the leaves melted is already covered with small replacement leaves. It seems like a more forgiving variety.

Len


----------



## lbacha

A couple new buces to keep me happy..



















Len


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## Fishies_in_Philly

wow beautiful!! i am definitely green with envy looking at them. but i would probably just end up killing them then beating myself up over it for weeks...lol


----------



## speedie408

Lookin real good Len!! Grow those new buces out bro. I want to see if they grow bigger for you or if they're going to stay small.


----------



## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> Lookin real good Len!! Grow those new buces out bro. I want to see if they grow bigger for you or if they're going to stay small.


I hope the leaves stay small but the plants get big they came with some nice rots already so they should do good


----------



## lbacha

A long time ago I said I would show how I made my fog machine out of a room humidifier, I took the pics loaded them up to TPT but forgot to post them, woops. First off I can't take the credit for this Grimm from here and dendroboard showed a picture of this under his absolutly amazing 150g peninsula vivarium (check it out if you havn't seen it yet). I pmed him and he said it worked well for him all he needed to do was find a fitting to put over the opening. He used a brass fitting and I went with plastic but I don't think it matters either way. First let me tell you this thing will fill the tank with a fog so thick you can't see anything even on it's lowest setting. I am actually planning on using it to cool the tank if it gets too warm in the summer because it is a cool mist humidifier. So here are the pics of what I did.


The key is the fitting for attaching the tube I used a 3/4" - 1/2" CPVC bushing, it fit right into the round opening in the humidifier and I used 5 min epoxy to secure it in place. The key is finding a humidifier with a nice round opening, most have vents or the air comes out the whole face this one was perfect it is made by sharper image and I got it for $59.99 at bed bath and beyond (I went to take a picture of the box at the store to post here but unfortunalty humidifiers are seasonal for them so you will probably need to order it) The other key thing to remember digital is bad if you want to put it on a timer it needs a mechanical switch that will stay on when the power is cut. For the price this little unit was perfect.









Next I cemented an elbow onto a short peice of 1/2" CPVC, I used an street elbow (A fitting with one end ment to insert into another fitting) I then inserted this into some 5/8" tubing that had the perfect inside diameter. Remember waterproof seal isn't all that important here and clear tubing can be heated and will fit over a much bigger object. 









And now for the easy part insert the fitting into the 1/2" bushing (no need to cement it), turn your fogger on and there you go. I just used some 1/2" CPVC fittings at the other end that go through the a hole I drilled into the center brace on the tank (I used the center brace for most of my holes for misters etc. because I wanted to be able to remove the lids easily) A KEY TO REMEMBER MAKE SURE THE TUBE GOES STRAIGHT UP AND DOESN'T DROP BELOW THE OUTLET BECAUSE IT WILL COLLECT WATER AND STOP WORKING.









Some pics of the fitting from my phone

















Enjoy Len


----------



## ADA

Such a great idea.. is this to keep the plants misted?


----------



## lbacha

ADA said:


> Such a great idea.. is this to keep the plants misted?


It's more for humidity I have a mister for water this allows me to pump fresh air into the tank and make sure it isn't too dry, I'm going to use it on a temp controller as well to make sure it doesn't get too warm in te tank in the summer.and it also looks cool.

Len


----------



## manualfocus

Hey Len, have you considered this?








I'm running one in one of my setups. Works pretty well for me.


----------



## lbacha

manualfocus said:


> Hey Len, have you considered this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running one in one of my setups. Works pretty well for me.


I looked at that mine is really just a do it your self larger version of that, hoe doses yours work, any issues with cleaning it, I figured a home humidifier is meant to run for a long time so less maintenance than I have seen with some pet specific ultrasonic humidifiers (most of those are in tank models though)

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## manualfocus

It's pretty straight forward. You just fill the bottle with water and invert it into the base. You can then adjust the rate of flow with a knob. I have mine on a timer to come on every 45 mins for about 10 mins. This keeps my 20 gallon setup at close to 100% humidity. I have not had any issues cleaning it.


----------



## lbacha

Well there are officially buces in the tank now,



















Len


----------



## lbacha




----------



## speedie408

Lookin GREAT Len!!!


----------



## hydrophyte

Nice job Len. I'll be interested to hear how that _Bolbitis heteroclita _does in there.


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Nice job Len. I'll be interested to hear how that _Bolbitis heteroclita _does in there.


Thanks guys not quite where I want it but getting there the moss is starting to fill in Nicely especially the moss the gets submerged twice a day it is forming a nice thick mat that looks really good you an see it in one of the picks. I think the daily submersion will have some neat effects on everything.

The B heteroclita is growing like a weed I'm afraid it will eventually get out of hand, I have it in my 40g breeder and it has quadrupled in size in a few months

Len


----------



## 150EH

It is looking good and the faux rocks even stand up to the macro shots, but they will look even better covered with moss and a plant growing on top of the moss.


----------



## klaus07

Looking great, patience and planning are truly virtues.


----------



## looking4roselines

it looks amazing. did you just wedged the buce between the rocks or did you have to anchor it down?


----------



## lbacha

Thanks guys,

The N sanggau are just wedged in the crack the Shine greens that look to be sitting on the rocks I slit the foam and wedged them into it

Len


----------



## lbacha




----------



## looking4roselines

you pad looks like a jungle. its too awesome.
what kind of orchid is that sitting on top of the terrarium?


----------



## lbacha

Just a basic phal. from home depot I like the fact the blooms last forever and they are very SE Asian in origin

Len


----------



## Fishies_in_Philly

looks great Len. i love how the stands match the hardwood flooring. that's a really nice touch


----------



## lbacha

Thanks it is edge joined aspen, it was a really good wood to work with. 

Well I'm adding some fauna to the tank 20 Malaysian trumpet snails are on the way. Hopefully they will keep the sand stirred up so that there are no dead spots and they are from Malaysia so I'm keeping the Borneo theme.



Len


----------



## lbacha

Malaysian trumpet snails added..


----------



## lbacha

Well here is the waterfall going full bore I don't think I've put any pics of it going yet.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

That water fall looks too awesome. 
Did you remove some of the crypts in the foreground?


Xue


----------



## 2in10

Fantastic system, can't wait for it to fill in.


----------



## 150EH

I looks nice, try a slower shutter speed for a more dramatic effect on the waterfall but it looks great.


----------



## toksyn

Beautiful!


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> That water fall looks too awesome.
> Did you remove some of the crypts in the foreground?
> 
> 
> Xue


I had some o the leaves die off, for some reason keei has a tendency to do that for me but new leaves are shooting up and I pulled one and it had nice new roots so it will be nice and full hopefully in short time since there are like 12 separate C keei in there now. Same thing happened in my aquarium but the keei is now sending out runners and I have a couple new plantlets coming up. 

The green squares are moss I got from AFA that I havnt found a home for yet.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Well I added a 24" dual solarmax HE to light up the water area some more. 

Len


----------



## lbacha

I added a Bakoa lucens to the tank, look at this roots there were very few when I first planted it in Malaya, I trimmed them wrapped the root ball in sphagnum then pinned it to the foam with floral pins an then put some moss on the sphagnum to grow in. I hope it likes it new home 

Len


----------



## 150EH

It looks nice!!!! I had a problem with Deep Blue CFL bulbs so I hope you have better luck with their T5's, I lost 4 bulbs in less than 6 months.


----------



## lbacha

My local cichlids shop swears by the HO's and thats where i got them from so I'm sure if I have an issue they will replace any faulty ones. Not to mention they are fairly cheap.

Len


----------



## lbacha

My new glass cleaning device, (I went high tech here)















I think this spot needs a nice slipper orchid and a lowland pitcher plant that stays small, if anyone has some suggestions that will fit in the spot let me know








Here is my bucephalandra "N sanggau" colony (I love the effect of multiple plants) I also chopped up some terrestrial moss I got from Thailand and put it on top of the rock, I'm hoping it takes hold.








A FTS with the glass cleaned by my new cheap toy








The terrariums neighbor I want to get a pathos growing up between the tanks








Here is a view of my slice of jungle


----------



## looking4roselines

nice pad Len. I can already imagine you sipping your whiskey while you slouch on your couch enjoying the view of your tanks.

The buce sp. sanggau colony between the crevice to the left side of the boulders are also looking pretty good. I personally would have bundled them together and lay some moss around them though.


----------



## toksyn

lbacha said:


> I think this spot needs a nice slipper orchid and a lowland pitcher plant that stays small, if anyone has some suggestions that will fit in the spot let me know


Paphiopedilum bellatulum stays small and has a very short spike. It doesn't look like you have a lot of vertical clearance so maybe this one will be a good idea?


----------



## lbacha

Xue 

This is for you I clumped the sanggau together with moss in the middle, this actually works out because I'm going to now plant the piptospatha on the other half the rock in the crevice. 

Len


----------



## 150EH

Look'n good, it looks like the rocks are getting a little green behind the falls area and it looks nice, aging will make all the difference on this one.


----------



## kwheeler91

Sweet crib, I didnt know cleveland had nice places lol. Im just down the road in huron.


----------



## lbacha

This came from Malaysia as a buce but I think it's a piptospatha ridleyi



Len


----------



## wabisabi

Cool variegated leaves on that. What Bucephalandra was it sold as?


----------



## lbacha

The person just said it was a bucephalandra as soon as I saw the picture he sent I knew it wasn't, I did some more research and it's a Piptospatha ridleyi. He was probably trying to con me or really just clueless but I wanted it anyways so I ordered it.

Len


----------



## EntoCraig

Love your tank! Reminds me of some of the vivariums I have. Very neat.


----------



## lbacha

EntoCraig said:


> Love your tank! Reminds me of some of the vivariums I have. Very neat.


Thanks, it's essentially a vivarium except no fauna except a few snails.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## lbacha

Well here is the piptospatha I got from Xue a long time ago that really got me planning this setup. I finally got around to adding it and I hope it grows a little faster in its new home.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

It's coming along very nicely. There's a jungle feel to it

You adding creepers on that backdrop?

And how often does your mister run and what's the duration?


Xue


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> It's coming along very nicely. There's a jungle feel to it
> 
> You adding creepers on that backdrop?
> 
> And how often does your mister run and what's the duration?
> 
> 
> Xue


I had bought a raphidophora korthalii that is a nice shingling plant but the problem is it gets to big, I would like to add some small vine like plants but I havnt found a good Borneo native yet other than scindapsis pictum which you can see on the far left side of the tank, that spot will be a N ampullaria "Brunei Red" pitcher plant eventually so the scindapsis will be moved somewhere.

Len


----------



## LB79

Man, you know what you should do is pile all those sweet houseplants behind both aquariums where the orchid is. Then again, they may not be SE Asian. Way cool tank, though.


----------



## lbacha

LB79 said:


> Man, you know what you should do is pile all those sweet houseplants behind both aquariums where the orchid is. Then again, they may not be SE Asian. Way cool tank, though.


I actually plan on putting one of my Banana's (musa sp.) behind the terrarrium, and I just got some riparium planters to put some palm behind the aquarium, I plan on growing some vining plants up between the two tanks as well.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Xue

As for the automation on the tank

Mistking misters: 40s at 11:30, 1:00, 3:00, 5:00 & 7:00

Fogger: 7min at 11:00, 12:00, 2:00, 4:00 and 6:00

Flooding of tank, drip wall and heavy waterfall 10min at 2:00 and 6:00 (lots of splashing so everything gets wet like it rained)

Lights come on at 10:30 ad go off at 10:00pm.

I'm sure I will tweak this as time goes on.

Len


----------



## crazydaz

Len, this tank is incredible. It sickens me, to be frank.  What a nice setup to be able to come home and see everyday! I would be glued to watching for hours.

Are you planning on introducing any terrestrial inhabitants?


----------



## lbacha

crazydaz said:


> Len, this tank is incredible. It sickens me, to be frank.  What a nice setup to be able to come home and see everyday! I would be glued to watching for hours.
> 
> Are you planning on introducing any terrestrial inhabitants?


Thanks a lot I wish I came home everyday to see it but unfortunately I'm only home on the weekends which is why there won't be any terrestrial inhabitants other than the occasional bug or two that en up in there, I'm adding a pitcher plant so they may not last either, ha ha. I have always wanted a nice terrarium/vivarium and with the addition of all the nice aroids from Borneo that have been popping up it seemed like a great theme, it is easy to spend time staring at it especially now that it's getting filled in, once the crypts start growing it will really start to have that jungle feel to it, I want to add a branch type log across it that I can plant some ephitytes on as well. It's a little too open in the middle for me.

Len


----------



## Ozydego

Good plan with the log or branch, I think that would add a ton of depth to the scene. It has to be cool to be able to watch it a week at a time rather than every day... Gives you something to stare at for a long time so you don't miss anything... I am envious of your experience with this tank


----------



## lbacha

The fog has just rolled in

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

That has a nice effect
And I guess you don't have work today


Xue


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> That has a nice effect
> And I guess you don't have work today
> 
> 
> Xue


I actually took it yesterday I just didn't get around to posting it. I'm sitting at my computer at a software company along the beltway outside of DC getting ready for a meeting.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Just found my first Borneo Begonia "Begonia malachosticta"










It is a pretty neat looking plant

Len


----------



## crazydaz

Me....want! . Nice fog picture!!

You do realize, Len, that in order to replicate the biotope to it's logical conclusion, you may have to remove your species tag markers from the tank, right? Lol!

Looks awesome, brother!


----------



## lbacha

crazydaz said:


> Me....want! . Nice fog picture!!
> 
> You do realize, Len, that in order to replicate the biotope to it's logical conclusion, you may have to remove your species tag markers from the tank, right? Lol!
> 
> Looks awesome, brother!


Lol, those are actually squares of moss from AFA I havn't found a home for yet, I was afraid I wouldn't be able to remember what was what. 

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## klaus07

Outstanding display Len. I could sit there for hours. I thought I was the only one collecting miniature Begonias for my terrarium LOL...so far I have four species. Three will add color to my Anubias collection and one is for the forthcoming PH set up. I really like that early morning fog effect. Its like a rainforest microcosm. I have been astonished by depth of planning and execution of your setup since day one. 

Klaus


----------



## looking4roselines

lbacha said:


> Just found my first Borneo Begonia "Begonia malachosticta"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a pretty neat looking plant
> 
> Len



Watch out for those begonians. They are quite addictive.
Michael Lo found a sp with solid blue leaves not too long ago. I want one of those!


----------



## klaus07

That looks like one of the large growing "cane' types. What is the ultmate height?


----------



## lbacha

klaus07 said:


> That looks like one of the large growing "cane' types. What is the ultmate height?


I have no idea I briefly looked it up and didn't find anything I know it grows on limestone cliffs at about 150m altitude, it looks a little big for the terrarium but it will look good in my collection.

Len


----------



## 150EH

The tank and growth is looking really good and seems to be coming together quickly now that you have started to fill it with plants. The new Begonia is cool to but it looks huge?


----------



## lbacha

It looks like it gets about 1-2 feet tall so it is a larger speceis that grows on a stalk, I'm going to put it in my emersed tank and see how it does and then try to transition it to a house plant since it is found on wind limestone ledges in sabah where the humidity will be a little lower than the lowland jungle.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

lbacha said:


> Xue
> 
> This is for you I clumped the sanggau together with moss in the middle, this actually works out because I'm going to now plant the piptospatha on the other half the rock in the crevice.
> 
> Len


 
Looks like we'll need an updated picture of the n sanggau colony after the weekend. Photos after planting will be much appreciated roud:


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Looks like we'll need an updated picture of the n sanggau colony after the weekend. Photos after planting will be much appreciated roud:


For sure, I'm looking forward to my late birthday present when I get home. I should have a nice clump of N sanggau on one side and shine green on the other. 

I should also have my new pitcher plant N ampullaria "Brunei red" on the top of the rock against the glass.

I really want to find a nice "y" shaped branch of driftwood to put in the middle of the tank where I can have moss, orchids maybe a pitcher plant as well on it. The middle is a little open and with the waterfall there is no way to plant the middle of the back wall easily but a nice branch coming from the back and curving into the water and then maybe off to one side would look nice.

Len


----------



## mellowvision

This is a really nice tank. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it looks come september!

I'm curious how you like your plumbing set up, and to hear more about your drain lines specifically... what size bulkheads and lines did you use? how much flow are you pushing? is the intake noisy? how is the flow through that back wall?


----------



## lbacha

mellowvision said:


> This is a really nice tank. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it looks come september!
> 
> I'm curious how you like your plumbing set up, and to hear more about your drain lines specifically... what size bulkheads and lines did you use? how much flow are you pushing? is the intake noisy? how is the flow through that back wall?


I will do a full write up when I have some more time, it's a simple setup but there is a lot to it, lol. I may put it on the first page along with a plant list so stay tuned.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Well I got my late birthday present thanks to Xue, I am officially dedicating this patch of Buces to him since he went overboard in his already generous offerings. 

Here is a comparison pic of what I'm talking about

North Sanggau patch this morning









North Sanggau patch this afternoon

















Oh and the Shine green patch got bigger as well









I took a time lapse of the fog rolling as well that I'll post in a bit

Len


----------



## lbacha

I added another koralia pump as well so lots of water movement in the tank now.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

Hey Len,
Check out my emergent journal. I think I found your cane begonia at the Arcadia arboretum. It was at least 6 ft tall a it looked identical to what you showed.

Very nice patch of n sanggau. They look a lot fuller now.

I also sent you a small patch of idontknowwhatitis. It might be moss, liverwor, who knows... See if you can figure it out. They came with the buce when I first got them.


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Hey Len,
> Check out my emergent journal. I think I found your cane begonia at the Arcadia arboretum. It was at least 6 ft tall a it looked identical to what you showed.


I saw that it is huge, I read that mine only gets 60cm max so may be different but again it may be the same, I may need to send it to you for your greenhouse, lol.. I saw the little blue one Mike Lo found and that is neat, the upper corner of the tank is a little dryer so I think a begonia will go well up there since it is still really humid.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Here is the fog coming in over like a 5 min period

Len


----------



## 2in10

Very cool, great job on the fog a very sweet addition.


----------



## lbacha

Aglaonema simplex








Piptospatha ridleyi








Schismatoglottis picta








Macodes petola








Piptospatha sp. "possibly elongata"








Dossinia marmorata "var. dayii"








Scindapsis pictus









I love all the different leaf types in this tank.

Len


----------



## crazydaz

Uhh....I'll second that!  Love the fog, Len! SO MANY unique species in there! You've done a great job sticking to the Borneo theme in there!


----------



## lbacha

crazydaz said:


> Uhh....I'll second that!  Love the fog, Len! SO MANY unique species in there! You've done a great job sticking to the Borneo theme in there!


Thanks I've tried to stay true to the Borneo theme the only things right now that arn't are the moss, most the other plants are from one part of Borneo (there is one that is from peninsular malaysia) or another and I plan to stay true to that.

Len


----------



## 150EH

Those are great looking plants, I like all the white in the leaves. The tank looks great in the first photo but the fogger works so good you can't see anything in the rest of the photos.


----------



## lbacha

150EH said:


> Those are great looking plants, I like all the white in the leaves. The tank looks great in the first photo but the fogger works so good you can't see anything in the rest of the photos.


I took a video that I have to figure out how to post watching the tank fill then dissipate is neat, there is decent circulation so the fog swirls while filling and dissipates in a few minutes. The pictures really don't do justice.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Here is a link to the video I took of the fog, ignore the background noise although its kinda funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZUsV4lCDwU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Len


----------



## crazydaz

Really nice, Lenny!! It's incredible to watch! I think that you simply need to stream this live while you are at work every day. I'll keep an eye on it for you! 

What do you use for water filtration in there?


----------



## lbacha

crazydaz said:


> Really nice, Lenny!! It's incredible to watch! I think that you simply need to stream this live while you are at work every day. I'll keep an eye on it for you!
> 
> What do you use for water filtration in there?


Thanks I've been thinking of hooking up a web cam to watch it and my aquarium while I'm away. As for filtration there is nothing special it has two bulkheads drilled into it one at about 4" and another at 8" the one at 4" has a pump attached to the end of the return when I want to flood the tank I turn the pump on and it fills up to the 8" bulkhead and drains through it. The water is returned from the sump down the waterfall. The heavy water you saw running comes from another pump in the tank that just pumps a large volume of water over the waterfall. The whole left side of the hardscape is hollow so the pump is in there. As for filtration all the rocks are open cell foam (like a foam rubber) so I figured there would be plenty of bacteria growth in there. There is also hydroton in some of the pots that I'm sure have good growth. The water gets a little brown but that's because I didn't boil any of the driftwood before I put it in there it's getting better though. I'm going to turn the sump into a grow out for other plants in the future but havn't yet so that will help with filtration as well. 

Len


----------



## lbacha

Well I found an orchid to put in my tank, it's phalaenopsis bellina "Borneo" it may eventually outgrow it's home but from what I've read it starts blooming with 4-5" leaves and it likes moister conditions so it will do well, I have one coming in the mail so we will give it a try I also ordered a phalaenopsis gigantea, this one looks pretty neat as well although it will get a little to big for the terrarium.

Phalaenopsis bellina









Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## speedie408

Awesome looking orchid man!

I like the fog and rain system. Gotta get me a terrarium one of these days! 

BTW that jewel orchid I got from you... it's doing quite well without high humidity. I'm using it on a riparium raft on my 120-p . Just thought you might be curious to know since you told me that it probably requires high humidity.


----------



## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> Awesome looking orchid man!
> 
> I like the fog and rain system. Gotta get me a terrarium one of these days!
> 
> BTW that jewel orchid I got from you... it's doing quite well without high humidity. I'm using it on a riparium raft on my 120-p . Just thought you might be curious to know since you told me that it probably requires high humidity.


That's great to know, how is it soon with wet feet? I have had a couple I my jewels melt away when they sat in too much water. I did know that jewels can be kept as houseplants so I should t e surprised 

Len


----------



## lbacha

So here is my dilemma, as a result of the setup my water is highly oxygenated but very low in CO2. This is causing my C keei to grow really slow. I'm not sure how to remedy this, I may actually inject CO2 and see if I can keep the CO2 up. If anyone has a suggestion let me know I may turn the waterfall off for 4-5 hrs a day and inject CO2 during this time. Any thoughts on if 4-5 hrs would be enough to spur some added growth.

On a positive note the B north sanggau patch is filling in, there are tons of new leaves and it is looking like a homogenous patch instead of a bunch of random plants.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

What about if you run CO2 while you're away from work and leave the waterfall on in the weekends when you're home?


----------



## Ozydego

Where is the outflow? I am wondering if you place a diffuser at the farthest flowing point, the inflow from the falls would push and the outflow would pull the CO2 across the area, if the outflow is in the center, maybe you would need two diffusers. Now, when the falls are off, how is the water cycled? do you have a seperate inflow? If so, I would place a diffuser right there... take your cues from the iwagumi tanks where the careful placement of the diffuser make all the difference...


----------



## lbacha

Xue & Ozydego,

My biggest issue is that the waterfall is the outflow from the sump. I would have to rebuild the whole concept if I turn it off for too long, a few hours and it won't hurt anything but a few days and the water between the sump and tank will have different parameters

Len


----------



## Ozydego

Ahh, I just started using this diffuser Atomic Diffuser and the bubbles are so fine that any flow at all keeps them suspended and not floating up to the surface. It is the best diffuser I have ever used, if it could be hidden under the falls, then I am sure it would permeate the water column.


----------



## lbacha

Well the right corner is filling in well, the Schismatoglottis is filling in Nicely and the moss is spreading over the rocks, I would guess most people would never realize they were foam unless I told them.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

That is looking really good Len. Now I am starting to get a little jealous. How would another patch of buce around the base of those schismattoglottis and piptospatha will look?


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> That is looking really good Len. Now I am starting to get a little jealous. How would another patch of buce around the base of those schismattoglottis and piptospatha will look?


There are a few Shine greens there and I'm hoping they grow in, the patch on the other side is looking good. Most of the original leave on the shine greens dies off but the rhizomes are full of new small leaves so I'm not worried there. I started putting fertz in the water column once a week and since the whole thing floods I think it's helping all the terrestrial plants grow.

Len


----------



## lbacha

I just had an epiphany in regards to my CO2 issue. Usually the issue with CO2 and a sump is the CO2 being lost outside the tank. In my case the water flow to the sump is extremely low but the waterfall in the tank is the main reason CO2 is lost. Inside the tank there is very little ventilation and since CO2 is heavy than air I would think injecting CO2 would cause a high concentration of CO2 to sit in the tank. This should t be an issue since there is no fauna in the terrestrial part of the tank. I'm actually thinking of getting a CO2 meter and keeping the air in the tank saturate so it would force CO2 into the water column instead of vice versa. I will just get a bigger CO2 tank and another regulator and problem solved hopefully.

Ok guys shoot some holes in this concept guys.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

Do you have any gaps on your tank to prevent near 100% humidity? If you do, how are you going to prevent the co2 gas from escaping the tank? And if you do completely seal the tank, how will your non aquatic plants do in high humidity?


Xue


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Do you have any gaps on your tank to prevent near 100% humidity? If you do, how are you going to prevent the co2 gas from escaping the tank? And if you do completely seal the tank, how will your non aquatic plants do in high humidity?
> 
> 
> Xue


All the plants I have like it hot and sticky so no issues there, as for CO2 it is heavier than air so it should set over the water and allow it to be absorbed. not to mention CO2 is fairly cheap so I'll just get a bigger tank and crank it up to compensate for any loss due to circulation. I may not want to put my head in the tank, lol.. On a serious note they use this concept in greenhouses so I don't see why it wouldnt work here. The biggest issue in the tank is that it probably uses the CO2 up during the day and the low air circulation doesn't replace it very well. I'm planning on diffusing it into the water and let it escape into the air so some will be directly injected into the water column. In an aquarium this wouldn't work but the terrarium is a different story. I don't think it will take much to make a big difference for the plants.

Len


----------



## Ozydego

I think that is an awesome idea, you are right, the CO2 will escape through normal processes, but using the buildup at the surface is genius. The diffuser will naturally dose the water column and what is left over will hang around...


----------



## lbacha

Current FTS: Things are growing in nicely, the crypts in the water section are growing slowly but they are growing, I need to work on the CO2 issues yet.









Left side of the tank: there is alot going on here the patch of buces is growing but I'm going to have to watch the moss because it's getting a little wild and I don't want it smothering the buces. You can also see the patch of C Keei in the water, its sending out runners so I know it's growing just not all that fast.









The right side which is dominated by a large Schismatoglottis picta, The bucephalandra "Shine green" can be seen on the rocks and it's starting to take hold.









I still think a nice "Y" shaped branch in the center leaning against the waterfall and going into the water covered in moss and plants is int he future I just havn't found a branch I like yet.


----------



## ReluctantHippy

Amazing tank and build. Very well done. Makes me miss the tropics.


----------



## looking4roselines

wow! the moss you have in there had made significant progress in covering the stones over the last few weeks. They hardscape looks so real. And you're right. The crypts needs to pick up the pace. Hopefully the additional co2 will help.

Your piptospatha to the right corner of the tank appears to be shaded by the schismattoglottis. Is it going to be enough light?


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> wow! the moss you have in there had made significant progress in covering the stones over the last few weeks. They hardscape looks so real. And you're right. The crypts needs to pick up the pace. Hopefully the additional co2 will help.
> 
> Your piptospatha to the right corner of the tank appears to be shaded by the schismattoglottis. Is it going to be enough light?


I'm pleased with how the moss is doing, especially where it has grown onto the rocks it looks really natural, as for the Piptospatha ridleyi I may move it forward or I may have to remove the schismatoglottis if it gets too much bigger, I love the way it looks but it may be overbearing for the tank. The leaves on the pipto havn't yellowed at all so I'm going to keep an eye on it to see how it does.

Len


----------



## lbacha

I have been mulling over some fauna for the tank and I'm thinking it may be a perfect setup for hilstream loach's aka "Borneo Suckers". Does anyone have any thoughts, my only concern is the water stays a steady 75' so it is at the top end of most of their recommended ranges. It is extremely oxegenated so that fits the bill and there is alot of movement of water in the center of the tank so they should like it. 

Len


----------



## 150EH

I've kept them in warmer water for years and I actually didn't know they like cooler water until this moment, but my tank is 76 right now but has been up to 80 degrees in some of the past summers with periods of extreme heat from hurricanes that caused power outages for a week or longer, so the tank had no flow and probably got up to 85 or higher and they all survived.

I think space might be more of an issue in your tank, they do like to have and own a territory.


----------



## lbacha

Well I just added a Bucephalandra gigantea, Aridarum orientalis and a bunch of Buce "shine green". It's really starting to fill in.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte

Nice!


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Nice!


It's starting to come along, I just need to fill in the center with something now.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

I am really surprised at how big those schismattoglottis can get. The leaves are bigger than the size of my hands. 


Xue


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> I am really surprised at how big those schismattoglottis can get. The leaves are bigger than the size of my hands.
> 
> 
> Xue


I had them for like 9 months before I put them in there and none of the leaves got bigger then 5-6" they must like this tank because the leaves are getting huge 10"+ on a couple of them.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

It would be cool to keep them as house plants but I don't know if they can tolerate lower humidity. Have you ever tried or seen anyone keep them as houseplants?


Xue


----------



## lbacha

If you have followed this thread you will know I have been looking for something to fill in the front like a nice branch or two well I may have found my solution these are latex covered wires rolled in peat moss. The branching one is 1"+ at the top and about 24" long to give you a reference as to the size. I'm thinking of stringing the vines through the tank and then planting some moss and other ephitytes like orchids on them.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

There are some nice bulbophyllums you can add to your terrarium

I recently fell in love with bulbophyllum reticulatum. It's also indigenous to Borneo so thiis might interest you.


----------



## lbacha

Here is the tank with some fake roots in it what do you all think?









Len


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## matty26

this is a super awesome tank! roots are sweet!


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## Ozydego

The tops do just stop without looking covered, that would be my only critique, I REALLY like what they add to the overall scene


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## lbacha

Well the Schismatoglottis picta may be outgrowing the tank.

Len


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## fishboy199413

Very nice looking tank. I was just wondering do you have or are you planning on having any livestock in the tank?


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## BoxxerBoyDrew

VERY AWESOME SETUP!!!

Me and a Good Friend built a few setups like this in the mid and late 90's, but we just used easy to get plants at local greenhouses, so most eventually outgrew the tanks. 1 was in a 55g, 1 in a 75g, and a few in 29g. We always put some kind of livestock in them from Poison Dart Frogs to Leaf Tailed Geckos. We also added the "Clean up Bugs" to keep it all running smooth! I will try to find some of the pics I have.

We didn't have all of the exotic plants like you, and I think the different plants You are using is SO FREAKIN AWESOME!!!! After seeing your GREAT SETUP I am wanting to setup another one! Today we have the expanded internet to help us find the Bad A$$ plants and the live foods are much easier to get a hold of now to, so it should make it alot easier to maintain! 

THANK YOU for this Thread, and taking me back to my Early Days!!! 

Again your tank is FREAKIN AWESOME, and I am Subscribed 4 sure!!!
Drew


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## lbacha

BoxxerBoyDrew said:


> VERY AWESOME SETUP!!!
> 
> Me and a Good Friend built a few setups like this in the mid and late 90's, but we just used easy to get plants at local greenhouses, so most eventually outgrew the tanks. 1 was in a 55g, 1 in a 75g, and a few in 29g. We always put some kind of livestock in them from Poison Dart Frogs to Leaf Tailed Geckos. We also added the "Clean up Bugs" to keep it all running smooth! I will try to find some of the pics I have.
> 
> We didn't have all of the exotic plants like you, and I think the different plants You are using is SO FREAKIN AWESOME!!!! After seeing your GREAT SETUP I am wanting to setup another one! Today we have the expanded internet to help us find the Bad A$$ plants and the live foods are much easier to get a hold of now to, so it should make it alot easier to maintain!
> 
> THANK YOU for this Thread, and taking me back to my Early Days!!!
> 
> Again your tank is FREAKIN AWESOME, and I am Subscribed 4 sure!!!
> Drew


Thanks,

I also got into vivariums an PDF's in the early 90's when PDFs were very hard to come by. I was in high school at the time and had a pair that I eventually sold when I web to college. This tank is the tank I wish I could have and afford back then. I always hate I couldn't have the neat jungle plant you always saw in the pics and when I got the opportunity to purchase some rare ones from borneo this tank just made sense.

Thanks again Len


----------



## hydrophyte

You should dig up that big _S. picta_ main plant and sell it on dendroboard and then let it grow back from the side shoots.


----------



## looking4roselines

Most of the schismattoglottis I have seen are pretty massive. The ones i have are overgrown from their 4" pots. Anyone know of any other smaller forms other than the s. roseospatha?


Xue


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## skanderson

really enjoyed following this thread. am going to be doing a water and land section viv this winter and really loved your rockwork and planting selection. thanks for all the pics, steve


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## hydrophyte

looking4roselines said:


> Most of the schismattoglottis I have seen are pretty massive. The ones i have are overgrown from their 4" pots. Anyone know of any other smaller forms other than the s. roseospatha?
> 
> 
> Xue


I have never seen that _S. picta_ grow so big in my setups. I don't see leaves bigger than 4" or so long. I imagine the oversized leaves might be growing because there is such abundant moisture and humidity in there. 

That plant grows so many rhizomes that you can manage it pretty easily if it starts getting too big; just yank the shoots that starting getting too large.

I wish we could get more species here. I have asked around with the aroid collectors some, but they don't keep very many of the smaller terrarium-suitable aroids. Most of those people live in Florida and they instead collect lots of big philos and _Alocasia_ and stuff like that.


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> You should dig up that big _S. picta_ main plant and sell it on dendroboard and then let it grow back from the side shoots.


I have two that big in my grow out tank, it grew slow until I fully submersed it's roots and it then took off, I'm waiting till summer is over then I have a lot to sell on dendroboard 

Len


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## lbacha

Future inhabitants of the Borneo terrarium, this tank is as much fun to look at as the show tank I do need to clean the glass though.

Len


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## lbacha

I'm starting to feel like I have a slice of Borneo in my living room 

Len


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## speedie408

Lookin awesome Len. Post up some more pics!


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## BoxxerBoyDrew

It is looking SOOOOOO GOOD!!!

Everything is growing very well and filling in perfectly! Nobody would ever know that it is mostly foam built! It is one of the BEST looking terrariums I have seen!!! It really makes me want to build another one too! If I only had the $! 

Keep up the AWESOME WORK!!!
Drew


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## inka4041

How is that Thai aglaonema doing with its roots submerged? I've got the same cultivar and would love to use it in a riparium setup.


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## looking4roselines

lbacha said:


> I'm starting to feel like I have a slice of Borneo in my living room
> 
> Len


Yes. Michael Lo should come over to snap a few pics for his blogs haha

Looking good Len 


Xue


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## lbacha

inka4041 said:


> How is that Thai aglaonema doing with its roots submerged? I've got the same cultivar and would love to use it in a riparium setup.


The Aglaonema simplex? It's the only one in there and it loves its roots wet. I have a couple in my grow out tank and they are doing good as well.

Len


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Yes. Michael Lo should come over to snap a few pics for his blogs haha
> 
> Looking good Len
> 
> 
> Xue


Wait till I show you that piptospatha sp. I got from you (the original one that started this whole idea) it Is throwing off 8-9" leaves now, I'm not sure what is driving the massive size of these plants compared to my grow out tank but they like something in the terrarium

Len


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## inka4041

lbacha said:


> The Aglaonema simplex? It's the only one in there and it loves its roots wet. I have a couple in my grow out tank and they are doing good as well.
> 
> Len


The pink spotted one in the holding tank. Looks like the cultivar 'Aun ya manee."
In any case, everything looks fantastic.


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## lbacha

inka4041 said:


> The pink spotted one in the holding tank. Looks like the cultivar 'Aun ya manee."
> In any case, everything looks fantastic.


Ah that one , it was sold to me as a schismatoglottis sp. but I'm pretty sure it is a Aglaonema as well.

Len


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## lbacha

Well for anyone wondering what all is in the tank here is a current list of the plants, I have a few more in my holding tank to add once I see how the rest fill in (oh yeah, there is a few different types of moss in there as well). There is also a couple random Buce's growing in the moss, they seem to like it in the tank so I've used it to grow out some of my others.

Len

· Orchids
o Macodes petola
o Dossinia marmorata var dayii
o Phalaenopsis bellina
· Aroids
o Aglaonema simplex
o Scindapsus pictus
o Schismatoglottis picta
o Schismatoglottis roseaspatha
o Schismatoglottis sp. “Tabang, Kalimantan Timur”
o Piptospatha ridleyi
o Piptospatha sp. “Possibly elongata”
o Bakoa lucens
o Bucephalandra motleyana “N sanggau”
o Bucephalandra motleyana “Shine green”
o Bucephalandra gigantea
o Cryptocoryne keei
o Aridarum orientalis
· Ferns
o Bolbitis heteroclita
o Trichomanes javanicum
· Pitcher Plant
o Nepenthes ampullaria


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## lbacha

It has been a while since I have posted new pics so here they are. I just added new vines and did some trimming, I have turned the mister off for the winter to simulate the dry season, the fog machine is still on and the lower plants get submersed twice a day still. I have a bunch of other plants in my holding tank that need a home so I may be adding some soon.

Both tanks








FTS of the terrarium

















Close up of my new vines I just added a couple hrs ago









Some pictures of my Buce "Shine Green" on a rock (for those of you new to the thread I didn't take these pics in Borneo, lol)

























Shots of the left side of the tank, does anyone want to take a guess at how many different plants are there? This side has alot more diversity than the right side.

























Right side, lots of vines and one huge overgrown Schismatoglottis picta, I trimmed 10 leaves off it today.









A shot from the middle of the tank, the Bakoa lucens on the rock wall is doing really well.









Here is a shot I took of some leaves I thought were really cool, can anyone name them?









Ok Xue where do you think the red Homalomena will look at home at.

Len


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## crazydaz

Ridiculously awesome, as usual, Len! Did you make the vines, or are they "au natural"?

I couldn't even begin to think how many plant species there are in there on the left side....four? 

If you grow out tank gets too crowded, give me a holler, ok? I would be happy to help you. As a fellow hobbyist, of course!  lol! 

Seriously, I LOVE looking at your tank!


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## lbacha

crazydaz said:


> Ridiculously awesome, as usual, Len! Did you make the vines, or are they "au natural"?
> 
> I couldn't even begin to think how many plant species there are in there on the left side....four?
> 
> If you grow out tank gets too crowded, give me a holler, ok? I would be happy to help you. As a fellow hobbyist, of course!  lol!
> 
> Seriously, I LOVE looking at your tank!


I actually bought the vines they are from exoterra I think, they are a wire with silicone and peat moss on it, the original vines I put in alreadyhave moss starting to grow on them so they are a great surface, and I'm looking for some neat ephiphytes to plant on them, maybe an orchid or so something like that.

I won't give it away yet but I will add names to the picture of the left side and it is alot more than 4, you can see a list of all the plants in the tank on the post above the one with the pics.

I do have alot of plants in the tank that I can send cuttings of let me know if you are ibterested and I will put a list together (not all of them are aquatic many are terrestrial sitting above the water)

Len


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## crazydaz

Well, that would be awesome! I would love to take you up on your offer, Len...thank you!

I'm counting 11 different species above the water on the left. That's my guess, at least.

I really like the vines. Been reading a lot lately about people using a combo of xylene, peat moss, and tightbond or something like that, and using that to cover the tubes they use for misting/watering the terrarium. Looks great, and you would never, ever be able to tell they weren't real. The curves of the vines in your tank definitely add a dramatic touch, Len! It was a bold move that worked nicely! Should look fantastic with mosses and orchids on it.


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## lbacha

Thanks for the compliments, I really think the vines add a depth that wasn't there before and if I can get some plant on them it will be even better. I'm thinking one more vine on the left side snaking down the rocks. I know I h e some Schismatoglottis, macodes petola, a neat begonia, raphidophora, a couple different types of fern, lagenandra and of course a bunch of crypts.

Len

Len


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## wabisabi

Tank is looking good Len!


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## Wy Renegade

Moss with orchids growing out are especially dynamic when the orchid sends out a long flower spike from a tiny orchid. That is the look that I would aim for with the vines. Tank is looking as awesome as always.


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## orchidman

lbacha said:


> Well for anyone wondering what all is in the tank here is a current list of the plants, I have a few more in my holding tank to add once I see how the rest fill in (oh yeah, there is a few different types of moss in there as well). There is also a couple random Buce's growing in the moss, they seem to like it in the tank so I've used it to grow out some of my others.
> 
> Len
> 
> · Orchids
> o Macodes petola
> o Dossinia marmorata var dayii
> o Phalaenopsis bellina
> · Aroids
> o Aglaonema simplex
> o Scindapsus pictus
> o Schismatoglottis picta
> o Schismatoglottis roseaspatha
> o Schismatoglottis sp. “Tabang, Kalimantan Timur”
> o Piptospatha ridleyi
> o Piptospatha sp. “Possibly elongata”
> o Bakoa lucens
> o Bucephalandra motleyana “N sanggau”
> o Bucephalandra motleyana “Shine green”
> o Bucephalandra gigantea
> o Cryptocoryne keei
> o Aridarum orientalis
> · Ferns
> o Bolbitis heteroclita
> o Trichomanes javanicum
> · Pitcher Plant
> o Nepenthes ampullaria


nice to see some orchids in there!! have you bloomed the bellina yet? its a great species!


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## Fishies_in_Philly

Wow Len, truly amazing. Just when i thought mine was looking nice, i come over to this thread and get depressed....lol 

i can't name the specific leaves in the one pic, but i believe 2 are Schismatoglotti sp?

oh, and i count 12 species on the left. I love the Nepenthes, that is a really nice touch. i assume you got that as a developed rosette? or trimming?


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## chad320

Yeah. Wow Len. its been a little while since ive seen this thread pop up. It looks great man!!! I am finally giving a Borneo scape a shot thanks to tanks like this one. Great job buddy, I hope you and yours have been doing well


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## DogFish

chad320 said:


> Yeah. Wow Len. its been a little while since ive seen this thread pop up. It looks great man!!! ...


roud:

This has been one of my favorite Journals. When you look at post 372 then go back in time to post 145...simply amasing!


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## Fishies_in_Philly

DogFish said:


> roud:
> 
> This has been one of my favorite Journals. When you look at post 372 then go back in time to post 145...simply amasing!


that's what i love about these style tanks. it's not how many weeks has this been set up, but months or years.


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## lbacha

DogFish said:


> roud:
> 
> This has been one of my favorite Journals. When you look at post 372 then go back in time to post 145...simply amasing!


That is actually a really good comparison, I should put those two shots together since that hardscape shot on 146 is exactly how the rocks are laid out before I added the great stuff.

Also everyone thanks for all the compliments, this has been a heck of a journey to get it where it is now and I still feel it has alot of growing in to do. I really want it to feel like it's been there for years. So to all of you that think you need your tank looking perfect from day one the only way that happens is to spend tons of money and then you miss the grow in process which is a big part of the journey.

Len


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## DogFish

Len - That really is what this hobby is about the journey. It's not about shopping.


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## Fishies_in_Philly

DogFish said:


> Len - That really is what this hobby is about the journey. It's not about shopping.


amen to that!!


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## lbacha

DogFish said:


> Len - That really is what this hobby is about the journey. It's not about shopping.


Exactly, although I do like the shopping, I also think tanks that have grown in have a more natural feel which is always my goal (I'm really picky about mixing plants from different areas, I've considered pulling the Piptospatha rileyi from the tank since it is actually from mainland Malaysia and not Borneo Malaysia, it is also why there are no fish in the tank right now). I just talked with Scott who made my rocks and he is working on some new molds so maybe we will see a new scape in the future.

Speaking of shopping I'm thinking about one more vine on the left hand side of the tank, I will have it snake down through the moss and then attach up where the vine on the right hand side does. What does everyone thing? is it too much? I have also considered some driftwood that i cover in moss and add some orchids to coming out of the upper part of that side and jutting out towards the front, something is missing on that side imho.

Len


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## Wy Renegade

lbacha said:


> Exactly, although I do like the shopping, I also think tanks that have grown in have a more natural feel which is always my goal (I'm really picky about mixing plants from different areas, I've considered pulling the Piptospatha rileyi from the tank since it is actually from mainland Malaysia and not Borneo Malaysia, it is also why there are no fish in the tank right now). I just talked with Scott who made my rocks and he is working on some new molds so maybe we will see a new scape in the future.
> 
> Len


I hear you on the biotope and also enjoy the challenge, but the down side of that is that sometimes it can severily limit the overall look of what you are going for. In my native bog tank, I've limited myself to plants that I've collected locally that work. While I like the overall feel of the tank and the purity of the specimens, it definitely lacks the variety and lush look that you see in many of the tanks. My 30gal paludarium on the other hand, I've allowed to be a mixture of various types of plants to create the look I was going for, and still create a nice place to keep natives rather than tropicals. Both tanks have undergone a lot of transition and each is unique and appealing in its own way.


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## Wy Renegade

lbacha said:


> Speaking of shopping I'm thinking about one more vine on the left hand side of the tank, I will have it snake down through the moss and then attach up where the vine on the right hand side does. What does everyone thing? is it too much? I have also considered some driftwood that i cover in moss and add some orchids to coming out of the upper part of that side and jutting out towards the front, something is missing on that side imho.
> 
> Len


I think the vine would look good, but it would add a higher level of symmetry which you may not want. A nice piece of driftwood covered in moss and orchids could look nice as well, but I would angle it more towards the center as it comes out rather then bringing it straight out. Even that might be too much however. 

What about a nice branchy piece that sits down in the water and then rises up and out, or is more at the surface. Then cover that in moss and orchids. Don't bring it straight up, but bring it up at an angle.


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## orchidman

lbacha said:


> Speaking of shopping I'm thinking about one more vine on the left hand side of the tank, I will have it snake down through the moss and then attach up where the vine on the right hand side does. What does everyone thing? is it too much? I have also considered some driftwood that i cover in moss and add some orchids to coming out of the upper part of that side and jutting out towards the front, something is missing on that side imho.
> 
> Len


either way..just add more orchids to it 

i could give you a few bornean phalaenopsis species suggestions if you wanted. off the top of my head i can say that sumatrana, cornigniana, modseta, and mariae are all found on borneo


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## lbacha

orchidman said:


> either way..just add more orchids to it
> 
> i could give you a few bornean phalaenopsis species suggestions if you wanted. off the top of my head i can say that sumatrana, cornigniana, modseta, and mariae are all found on borneo


Suggest away, I have a Phal bellina in there but havn't found too many others for sale, I do have a Phal gigantea in my holding tank but there is no way it will work in the tank as it is already sending 6-8" leaves. If you know of any smaller high humidity loving ones let me know, other types that are tropical and grow as ephitytes would be great to add to the vines as well.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## orchidman

lbacha said:


> Suggest away, I have a Phal bellina in there but havn't found too many others for sale, I do have a Phal gigantea in my holding tank but there is no way it will work in the tank as it is already sending 6-8" leaves. If you know of any smaller high humidity loving ones let me know, other types that are tropical and grow as ephitytes would be great to add to the vines as well.
> 
> Len
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


just wrote up a whole big reply. and then exited the page :icon_eek:

hhaha! gigantea can get huge (hence the name!) how old is yours? thats one phal species i have not gotten yet..

the 4 i mentioned above ( all phals, fyi) are similar size to bellina.

if you need vendors, pm me! i know where you can get alot of these!

phals in borneo...

borneensis (duh, but good luck finding one!)
cornu-cervi
pantherina (hard to find)
cochlearis
fuscata
fimbriata
luteola ( hahah your chances of finding one are next to none :icon_evil)
maculata
amabilis (stunning white with large flowers, mother of all "standard" phals. might get a little big though)
deliciosa (a super small phal! 
pulcherrima (recently re-classified from Doritis of Phalaenopsis, most wills ell this as Doritis)


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## lbacha

orchidman said:


> just wrote up a whole big reply. and then exited the page :icon_eek:
> 
> hhaha! gigantea can get huge (hence the name!) how old is yours? thats one phal species i have not gotten yet..
> 
> the 4 i mentioned above ( all phals, fyi) are similar size to bellina.
> 
> if you need vendors, pm me! i know where you can get alot of these!
> 
> phals in borneo...
> 
> borneensis (duh, but good luck finding one!)
> cornu-cervi
> pantherina (hard to find)
> cochlearis
> fuscata
> fimbriata
> luteola ( hahah your chances of finding one are next to none :icon_evil)
> maculata
> amabilis (stunning white with large flowers, mother of all "standard" phals. might get a little big though)
> deliciosa (a super small phal!
> pulcherrima (recently re-classified from Doritis of Phalaenopsis, most wills ell this as Doritis)


I will definitely be in touch, the P gigantea I got off eBay and it is small 3-4 leaves, I really can't do it justice because I don't have room for it so let me know if you are interested and maybe we can work out a trade. I'm not too versed on orchids so some tips would be great I have a few of your box store phals in my apartment but I struggle to get them to bloom a second time although they seem to grow fine.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## orchidman

lbacha said:


> I will definitely be in touch, the P gigantea I got off eBay and it is small 3-4 leaves, I really can't do it justice because I don't have room for it so let me know if you are interested and maybe we can work out a trade. I'm not too versed on orchids so some tips would be great I have a few of your box store phals in my apartment but I struggle to get them to bloom a second time although they seem to grow fine.
> 
> Len
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


awesome! i may be interested..send me a pm, id love to chat orchids with you!
be careful though, orchids are sneaky little thing. one moment your buying your mom one for mother's day and before you know it, you are a 17 year old with 80-90 orchids that you grow in your room and have started breeding them! :icon_eek::icon_eek:


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## Fishies_in_Philly

i don't know how long the vine is, but i would have it emerge from the moss in the upper left, run down the branch to just before the fork, where it would drop into the water. then emerge on the right side and run across the two vines from the right onward to the back somewhere. if using 2 vines for it, bury the aquatic ends so that it just looks at it grew in and out and covered in sediment. it does 2 things, 1 is gives a bit of "motion" to the left, and it breaks up the symmetry of the 2 vines on the right. at least in the pics you posted, they look as though they are falling at identical angles. that cross over at the bottom may steer the eye away from it.

just a wee bitty thought


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## lbacha

orchidman said:


> awesome! i may be interested..send me a pm, id love to chat orchids with you!
> be careful though, orchids are sneaky little thing. one moment your buying your mom one for mother's day and before you know it, you are a 17 year old with 80-90 orchids that you grow in your room and have started breeding them! :icon_eek::icon_eek:


If buying my mom an orchid will make me 17 again I'm all for it, lol.. 

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## lbacha

Fishies_in_Philly said:


> i don't know how long the vine is, but i would have it emerge from the moss in the upper left, run down the branch to just before the fork, where it would drop into the water. then emerge on the right side and run across the two vines from the right onward to the back somewhere. if using 2 vines for it, bury the aquatic ends so that it just looks at it grew in and out and covered in sediment. it does 2 things, 1 is gives a bit of "motion" to the left, and it breaks up the symmetry of the 2 vines on the right. at least in the pics you posted, they look as though they are falling at identical angles. that cross over at the bottom may steer the eye away from it.
> 
> just a wee bitty thought


Yeah I need to look at the tank in person again, I added the vines and then left for work and havn't been back since, I'll be back this weekend so I'll try some variations and see how I like them. I also have a ton of plants that I want to add so I'm really thinking of removing the large Schismatoglottis picta on the right and going with smaller plants since it really is dominating that corner, I trimmed out a bunch of stems before I took the pics and it was still huge.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## orchidman

lbacha said:


> If buying my mom an orchid will make me 17 again I'm all for it, lol..
> 
> Len
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


lol! i think i was 13 at the time.. :icon_roll


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## lbacha

Hello all

I've been away from this forum for a long time, work and life caught up with me and unfortunately the vivarium was neglected a bit. I'm happy to say that it is still up and running and has been this whole time. There are only a few bucephalandra and the two schismatoglottis left from the original inhabitants. Unfortunately the schismatoglottis as well as moss decided to be the dominate specials in the tank and since I didn't trim it on a regular basis it killed off the rest of my plants. I have since replanted the tank with a more mixed flora (I liked the Borneo theme but I really wanted vines with neoreglia sp. on them). The other major upgrade has been adding a Finnex Planted+ 24/7 SE led fixture. I wish this was available when I started this tank as it's amazing. Well let me know if I should resurrect this thread and I'll add more pics as the tank matures again.

Len


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## d33pVI

Welcome back Len! You got me to sub. I'm going to have to go back and read through this thread. Looks amazing! I just might need to try something like this in my empty 75.


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## lbacha

Well after 6 years I finally broke down and added some fish. A nice school of cardinal tetras now call this home.










Full mid day lighting on both tanks


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## lbacha

Well I decided the lights on the vivarium just weren't bright enough so I added a second 48" planted plus 24/7. It's great that both can be controlled at the same time. The tank is lit up much better now and I can get light down to the water which was my goal. I'll take some par readings at some point for anyone interested.


















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## lbacha

Well I moved a couple months ago and the vivarium made the move intact. We carried it up 4 flights of stairs to my new apartment and all we did was drain the water.


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