# New Peacock Gudgeons



## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I took a couple of shots of my new gudgeons to send to my sister, and thought I might share them with you folks. That's all. Enjoy.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

nice looking pair


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks! With any luck they'll make more.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

So it is a male and female??


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## PunknDestroy (May 9, 2013)

The first pic is a female judging by the belly and head shape. Second one is a nice looking male.



tattooedfool83 said:


> So it is a male and female??


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Beautiful fish 

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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I'm certainly happy with them. They look great and they're pretty interesting. The male will go from hanging out in the plants like a crotchety old man one minute, to playing in the filter output with the rasboras the next. 

The female is way more interested in eating than anything else. She spends a lot of time eying things intensely to see it they're food. Usually they're plant roots or spots on the glass.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Haha. Awesome

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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

you will know when they start mating because the male will disappear for about 2 weeks while he fans the eggs. don't worry he survives just fine.

when the eggs hatch you will want to either catch the fry and move them to another tank or a breeder box in that tank. or catch the male and female and move them. since you have other fish in the tank, it would be best to catch the fry. 

i managed to raise 3 males from eggs. there are some pvc tricks you can try if you are really interested in breeding them. i didn't try them, i just figured if i could raise a few great! and if not, oh-well.

they are still too young to breed, so don't worry about them not spawning yet. but when they do reach that age, bloodworms really gets them in the spawning mood.

as far as the cave space, they like a tight spot with one way in/out. generally under a rock.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Wow, thanks for all the info AD. I appreciate it! 

I didn't know that they preferred a one way in one way out cave.. I just assumed they would want a tube. 

What were you feeding yours? Mine don't seem to show much interest in flakes, but have been taking brine shrimp readily.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Cute! I used to have a male one and was in love with their behavior!


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

0live said:


> Wow, thanks for all the info AD. I appreciate it!
> 
> I didn't know that they preferred a one way in one way out cave.. I just assumed they would want a tube.
> 
> What were you feeding yours? Mine don't seem to show much interest in flakes, but have been taking brine shrimp readily.


I feed all mine flakes and every so often I'll treat them to bloodworms.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

0live said:


> Wow, thanks for all the info AD. I appreciate it!
> 
> I didn't know that they preferred a one way in one way out cave.. I just assumed they would want a tube.
> 
> What were you feeding yours? Mine don't seem to show much interest in flakes, but have been taking brine shrimp readily.


 
they don't really eat flake, or pellet. you can ween them over to it, but they prefer frozen or live. i fed bloodworms, brine shrimp (regular and spiralina), tubifex worms, and emerald entree. they really enjoyed it when (as a treat) i would cut up a wax worm, or mealworm and put that in the tank. i had to stop though as i had a otto get stuck in the exoskeleton of a meal worm and i almost lost him.

i may have mispoke if i said they prefered a cave over a tube. mine did not like pvc tubes,they would go in it if there was no cave available. however overall many people have had better luck breeding them using pvc pipe as caves. because you can remove the whole tube and place it in a grow out tank instead of trying to catch the fry with a net.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

My favorite fish!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Small update: they've started trying to spawn. I caught them in the act trying to spawn in the back corner of the tank last week (not in a tube? C'mon you two!) then this morning I came down, fed the the tank an noticed I didn't see them.

I looked searched the tank for about 15 minutes before I remembered seeing the male come out from behind some Nymphoides sp. Taiwan over the weekend and being confused as to how I didn't see him behind it since there was a big rock there...

I got out my flashlight and found that some of the sand under part of the rock was gone and the pair were hanging out in a fish-made rock cave. 

This tiny little "cave" is barely large enough to squeeze their bodies into but they fit, and if they're happy and they spawn, I'll forget that they've snubbed my tubes.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

That's awesome. 

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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I should point out that they have not yet spawned, but the lady gudgeon looks gravid, and the male is interested.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Enter slow jams. 

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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Terrible video, but you can see how tight of a squeeze that cave is.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

There love shack. 

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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Two days later I have eggs!

They're really hard to see, he's got himself pretty deep under the rock but if I shine the light in at the right angle I can catch them. I can't easily photograph them.. But I'll try.

I might try spot feeding worms to him under the rock, though maybe not right away. I figure I'll pull the whole rock on Thursday rather than letting them hatch in the community tank.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Oh and lady gudgeon isn't as skinny as I expected her to be after laying eggs.. My guess is that she's still got eggs since from what I've read they will spawn once these fry hatch out.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Wicked cool. Talk about settling in quick


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

No kidding. They've only been in the tank for two weeks.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I finally managed to get a shot of the male in his cave. It's not great, but you can see that he's upside down and in the second image you can see the eggs attached to the rock against the white/yellow of his belly.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

That's so cool. How long until u pull the rock?


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Not sure. They might have to go in the 10 for now. I'm just not sure if I should keep them on the rock, or try to scrape them off.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Keep the rock so they don't get damaged but maybe place them with shrimp so the shrimp can tend the eggs until they hatch


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

No go. Assassin snails will eat the eggs.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

What about a separate tank minus snails with a group of cherries? I read some where about how the shrimp will roll and clean and keep the eggs fungus free


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Well that would be the 10 or the 40.. Looks like the 10.. 

Or back to petco in the am.

Petsuppliesplus sent me a $5 off 30 purchase, and petco said they'd let me use it.. So maybe I'll pick up something there.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

It's a conspiracy, they are sucking u in to the 1 per gallon..... Hahaha


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

It's so easy to get sucked in man.. So... Easy..


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Well if I keep up with it and lose my discipline with it then my daughter might lose her play room hahaha


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I have fry!

I scraped some eggs off the rock this morning and into a breeder net. I figure in there they'll get enough current to not get fungus in the last few days of incubation.

I ran out to run some errands and came back to some hatched fry... Or as I call them floating eyes.

I've counted 4 so far, but honestly, I don't think I'd see them if they were on the bottom mesh.

Eggs:










Eggs next to an exacto knife for a sense of scale:


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Wow!!! Quickest breeding ever!!! Congrats to the new parents


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I've counted a dozen fry at this point. One of them is moving around quite a bit. Most of them are just hanging out but will swim away if I get near with the feeding syringe.


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## PunknDestroy (May 9, 2013)

If you continue with the success I'd be interested in taking some of them off your hands as I've been looking for some! If you need microworms I can supply some to you as well!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Assuming everything works out, I'm sure something could be arranged.


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## PunknDestroy (May 9, 2013)

Awesome. Sounds good to me.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

congrats on the fry! do you have BBS and rotifers? they can feed off of them when they become free swimmers.

also if you have any floating plants i would recommend putting them in the breeder box (or where ever they are) as it will provide some infusoria for them to feed off until they are large enough to feed off BBS and Rotifers


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

When your ready to part ways with them, would you sell me a pair


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

They're on BBS, vinegar and presoaked hikari first bites. Assuming they do well, they'll be available for sale.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Cool! I'm usually near RI twice a month. Lmk


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Keep me posted to


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Vinegar? why vinegar?


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I accidentally a word!

Vinegar _eels_. 

I doubt they'd like plain old vinegar.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Aquatic Delight said:


> Vinegar? why vinegar?


Maybe trying to season them since birth? They'd probably make good fish sticks lol


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Okay so while I've been feeding them bbs, I've yet to witness any of them actually eating any. In fact, they seem to be afraid of them. 

They get all close and curious then when they get close enough to eat them the fry jump back and swim away.


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## PunknDestroy (May 9, 2013)

How old are the fry? Usually less than a week old is too small for them to eat bbs



0live said:


> Okay so while I've been feeding them bbs, I've yet to witness any of them actually eating any. In fact, they seem to be afraid of them.
> 
> They get all close and curious then when they get close enough to eat them the fry jump back and swim away.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i use rotifers for the very young fry and switch to BBS after a few weeks.

i asked before but you never answered, do you have any floating plants?


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Oh yep!


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

I usually do micro worms or banana worms


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Saw some BBS munching this morning!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I was in the tank this morning shuffling some things around (one of the rocks had shifted and was sitting on the lower leaves of my alternanthera reineckii.) When I picked it up to move it I discovered the pair trying to spawn again.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

It must be the ambient lighting...... Whomp whomp waaaa. That is spectacular


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

tattooedfool83 said:


> It must be the ambient lighting...... Whomp whomp waaaa. That is spectacular


I've heard that oysters are an aphrodisiac.. maybe brine shrimp are too.. 

Now I know that he was under there for a while, and I noticed the remaining eggs had disappeared, but I don't know if they hatched or he ate them or both. I haven't seen any fry in that tank (which doesn't surprise me really, it's pretty heavily planted.)


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Hahaha


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Tonight's count was at 24 fry. I bet there are more, but I lost track of ones not yet counted.

They now also live with a small all black guppy fry that was in with some blyxa japonica I picked up today. 

I figure at a week old if they were going to die, they would have gone and done it. That isn't to say that they can't, just that they have managed to survive the first week with no big die off! So exciting!

I'll check back in on this in another week.


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## PunknDestroy (May 9, 2013)

You must be doing something right!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

0live said:


> I was in the tank this morning shuffling some things around (one of the rocks had shifted and was sitting on the lower leaves of my alternanthera reineckii.) When I picked it up to move it I discovered the pair trying to spawn again.



they will do this until the day they die, or until you get a CPO and he steals all the good spawning caves. not that i did that or anything lol.

congrats on all the fry! thats most excellent. i have lost a few after the week point. but i don't think you will lose any. if your camera can i'd love to see the little guys.

a couple teasers for you
(the first one is a video)


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Eggs next to an exacto knife for scale









Eggs and fry


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

aww that is awesome! great photos!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks! I'll try to get updated photos this week..


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## Bserve (Nov 4, 2012)

Nice!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Got some shots of the fry with my iPhone today. They turn 2wks today. I should make them a brine shrimp cake or something.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

As Spawn1 hit the three week mark I collected some of Spawn3. Just like with the first spawn, I carefully removed most of the eggs with the back of an exacto knife blade and placed them in a net breeder in the tank they've been spawned in. I leave some eggs behind for the male to keep watch over. It might not be necessary, but it's what I do. I expect Spawn3 to hatch within 24 hours.

Once they hatch, I'll carefully siphon them out and move them to the fry tank where they can spend a month or two getting big enough to eat something bigger than bbs.

I might move the female out of the tank after this to give the male a break from keeping eggs.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Took this video last night. Gudgeon fry eating bbs.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Got some shots of the July 5th hatching group this morning. They've got all their fins fully developed and you can really see their tail spot. Friday 8/9 will be the 5 wk mark, and just about halfway to being able to sex them. 

For those that were looking for gudgeons check back in October.

View attachment 187777


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

bottom right is gonna be a female 

ime most of my survivors are male.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Aquatic Delight said:


> bottom right is gonna be a female
> 
> ime most of my survivors are male.


Yeah these buggers are too small and fast for me to sex, but the photos made me think I could sex them. Thanks!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I just noticed one has a split tail


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Moving the different spawns to their own 10 gals.








I count 31.


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

I know where I'll be looking when I am ready to get mine...should be all ready and cycled by October (knock on wood)!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

The male fans another spawn


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## I<3<*))))>< (Jun 10, 2013)

Awesome thread!! Can't believe Im just now seeing this, hah!

These seem like some amazing fish. I've been interested for a while but never done much reading. Guess it's time to hit the books coz you totally have me itching for some now!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I parted ways with my first 4. I have them to a fellow TPT member at a plant swap. Sadly, I was just informed that one did not make it.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

0live said:


> I parted ways with my first 4. I have them to a fellow TPT member at a plant swap. Sadly, I was just informed that one did not make it.


Rip baby gudgeon


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Pulled out my real camera today to get some shots of the gudgeons.

Lets start with mom: 


















Then the younger spawn (July 27 hatch):














































And one shot of the older spawn (July 5 hatch):


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Wow mom is gorgeous


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

tattooedfool83 said:


> Wow mom is gorgeous


Thanks! Maybe one day I'll get photos of dad (but that means he needs to come out from under his rock first)


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Hahah, usually I get told to go back to the rock I crawled out from


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## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

Pic from this morning of one of the first group


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

That's a great looking mom and fry you have!


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I can believe I didn't upload this photo here, but qwe asked for some comparison pics a few weeks ago. I sent them to him, but failed to post them here.










These guys are ready to head out to new homes.. I'll be bringing some to the TFSRI meeting this month and maybe some up to some other auctions soon. After that, I'll make a post in the for sale section for any that remain.


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## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

Eggs and male fanning them from that first batch 0live gave me:



















So exciting :biggrin:


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Woo hoo!! She told me the other day yours spawned, I've been waiting to see pics


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Congrats Qwe! Here's to some good lookin babies.


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## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

Sorry it took so long to post the pictures, been busy here.
Probably gonna finally move the 3 into the 20 gallon I set up for them and raise the fry in the 5 gallon they're currently in.
Have you tried leaving any of your spawns with the parents 0live?


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Qwe said:


> Sorry it took so long to post the pictures, been busy here.
> Probably gonna finally move the 3 into the 20 gallon I set up for them and raise the fry in the 5 gallon they're currently in.
> Have you tried leaving any of your spawns with the parents 0live?


Qwe, yes, but I've never seen the fry when I did.


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## artresz (Aug 24, 2012)

On a slightly unrelated note, what what conditions are you all keeping these guys in? 
I know someone who's been in the hobby for many a year and insists that they are a brackish water fish but whenever I read information on them people are keeping them in regular fresh.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

I keep mine in freshwater.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

artresz said:


> On a slightly unrelated note, what what conditions are you all keeping these guys in?
> I know someone who's been in the hobby for many a year and insists that they are a brackish water fish but whenever I read information on them people are keeping them in regular fresh.


I've never heard of them as brackish fish.. Perhaps there was some confusion between the Peacock and the Empire Gudgeon, as they inhabit both brackish and fresh waters.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Freshwater here as well. Never heard of them in brackish. Mine have spawned in fresh so I'm sure they are happy. 

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## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

Yup fresh, heavily planted 5 gallon, with Neo shrimp that seem to have really dwindled in numbers since putting the fish in there...


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## Drewsplantednutz (Jan 25, 2012)

Hey, how are these guys doing for you. I picked up 2 from petsmart but I think they are both females, but awesome little girls. Im looking for a male for my pair now if you have any to get rid of.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Drewsplantednutz said:


> Hey, how are these guys doing for you. I picked up 2 from petsmart but I think they are both females, but awesome little girls. Im looking for a male for my pair now if you have any to get rid of.


I have some, but they're young and small as all of the first hatching have sold. I wouldn't be 100% certain on sexing at their age, but I'd be willing to take a stab at it.


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