# Can Algae Kill My Plants???



## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

that is some nice coat of green hair algae. usually because of too much light compared to co2. 
cut lights on perid to 7hr and reduce intensity. make sure direct sunlight is not reaching your tank.


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## TJeep_1999 (Jan 23, 2015)

Thanks for the quick reply. I have to admit I wasn't full dosing the CO2 b/c I was concerned about the fish/shrimp. I'll go to the full dose for the tank. I cut the light in half and also put a timer on it to reduce the light time to only 7 hours with a 2hr break in the middle of the day. How long should it take to see results (know if it's working)?


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

when you say co2 are you reffering to actual pressurized co2 gas or liquid excel/gluraraldehyde?

the algae wont go away on its own when presented at this amount in tank. you need to get rid of most of it. this can be done by manual removal and spot treating with excel or peroxide. both has side effects. excel can melt your plants, h2o2 can harm the good bacteria. read how-to on either one before proceeding.

heres what id do(hopefully other will chime in):
1) reduce light intensity by half and cut photoperiod to 7h.
2) get some beers and potato chips and spend good few hours by manualy removing as much algae as posible
3) every morning for 5 days add initial dose of excel and remove any dead plant or algae. change 30-50% water prior doing so every time.
4) be prepared for some plant melting, get fast growing stem plants(rotala, bacopa, ludwigia etc) and plant them.

dont give up, even algae is better than plastic plants


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## TJeep_1999 (Jan 23, 2015)

I'm using liquid CO2... in theory I have low maintance plants = low maintance tank 

"even algae is better than plastic plants"... this is debatable.

I tried removing the algea before, but have a really hard time getting it off the plants. I litterally had to trim most of it off. I followed that up by cleaning glass, rocks, and decorations. I completely went through the entire tank to make it as algea free as possible less than 3 weeks ago... very fustrating it took so little time to go back downhill. Thanks for the encouragement... it's needed at this point.

I'll try the above although it will probably be a few days before I have time to clean the tank again... 

Thank you!


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## Dred10 (Jan 3, 2014)

I would also second Dzega. Seems like there is some sort of imbalance of nutrients in your tank. Cutting back on the photoperiod will help as well as the intensity. You might not want to do a complete blackout as your plants may be in a weak state which might do more bad than good. Do you add phosphates or nitrates?


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

Agree with above. Remove as much algae by hand as possible and do big water changes every 3rd day or so of 50%. Shorten the photoperiod as above to about 7 hours. That's a lot of algae so saving the plants may be difficult.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

All good advice. I would also kill all of the algae at once with a seven day complete total darkness blackout. Your nutrients will go ballistic in the form of dangerous ammonia as it all dies at once so you will have to change a lot of water and use 3x gust aldehyde (excel) to detox. 


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After removing as much as possible manually of course. 


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I meant prime to detox not excel ***


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## sushant (Mar 3, 2007)

In such cases of algae breakout 3-5 days of blackout works the best. Cover the tank with something so that no light can penetrate through. 
And as already suggested decrease the photoperiod to 7 hrs and try creating balance between ferts, light and CO2 for algae free tank.


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## TJeep_1999 (Jan 23, 2015)

The answer to my question is "Yes". That much algae can kill your plants.

It took about 4 hours, but I was able to remove most of the algae and cycle most of the water. Most of the bulb plants I had to just cut back completely. I'm hoping they re-grow. Others were a loss as well as nothing could be done, but I was able to keep a lot of them by cleaning/trimming leaves. The algae stripped some of the paint from my plastic decorations and the loss of cover resulted in a few shrimp/baby fish deaths. It has not been pretty. 

I read a post saying the light I'm using doesn't provide enough light. I'm now believing that is not the case. Shame on me for believe what I read on the internet. I've cut back the light time and intensity significantly. I'm dosing CO2, iron, potassium, and I'm feeding the fish on their regular schedule.

A complete black out wasn't an option b/c I was worried about what the ammonia spike would do to my tank inhabitants.

The last algae bloom took less than 2 weeks (happend when I started adding ferts) to over-run the tank so I'm guessing I should know soon if this new schedule is working.

Thank you for all the advice/encouragement. I'll keep you posted on the results and in the mean time decided to post a current picture of the "cleaned" tank

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/album.php?albumid=18666&pictureid=76001

If this doesn't work I'll post pictures of the newly "planted" plastic plant pictures


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

Did the LFS tell you what your nitrates are? Do you know what your phosphates are? You dose iron and potassium but you don't dose anything else?


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Good call on the lights. Web faktz be damned! Tom is always talking about CO2 being way more important than light to plants (within reason). 


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

Gold Finger said:


> Good call on the lights. Web faktz be damned! Tom is always talking about CO2 being way more important than light to plants (within reason).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Light is the driver for everything... Light is always the most important factor and I don't think that Tom would disagree with that fact.

After light CO2 is the next most important.

Light creates CO2 / fert demand. Your plants can only use so much of all these nutrients at once. If you are putting in too much light so that your plants could not possibly use it all given ample CO2 and ferts then you simply have too much light.

Bottom line is that you can't just blast any tank with as much light as you want because you think you have enough CO2 and ferts. If you don't have the plant mass / types of plants that can use that much light then you will inevitably get algae. Lots of people overlook this point.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

anastasisariel said:


> Did the LFS tell you what your nitrates are? Do you know what your phosphates are? You dose iron and potassium but you don't dose anything else?


This is my same reaction.

What are the nitrate and phosphate levels? What other micronutrients are you dosing? The fuzz algae looks like a micronutrient deficiency.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Let's go back to square one! What light fixture are you using - manufacturer, how many bulbs, what color temperature, etc.? And, what is the distance from the light fixture to the substrate? With that it is possible to guess fairly accurately whether you have low light, medium light, etc. and from that, whether Excel is adequate as a carbon supply.


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## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

klibs said:


> Light is the driver for everything... Light is always the most important factor and I don't think that Tom would disagree with that fact.
> 
> After light CO2 is the next most important.
> 
> ...


Good information for a novice.

I have a 'tiny' algae problem in my new planted tank but my nerite snails are taking no breaks in turning the algae into poop .

As soon as I saw the algae growing I cut the light by 10% and upped my CO2 and Fert a tiny bit as the plants were giving signs they needed more.

Hopefully my plants will out-compete the algae! It's a learning process for me.


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## TJeep_1999 (Jan 23, 2015)

Great feedback!! I checked back on the forum and was suprised at all the responses. Definately a learning process and I appreciate the input.



anastasisariel said:


> Did the LFS tell you what your nitrates are? Do you know what your phosphates are? You dose iron and potassium but you don't dose anything else?


Nitrates, Ammonia, and PH where all in the "safe" zone. It's been over a week now so I don't remember the exact levels, but they didn't say there were any issues w/ the tank water or that anything needed to be changed. I only dose CO2, iron and potassium b/c I have fish and add fish food. 



Hoppy said:


> Let's go back to square one! What light fixture are you using - manufacturer, how many bulbs, what color temperature, etc.? And, what is the distance from the light fixture to the substrate? With that it is possible to guess fairly accurately whether you have low light, medium light, etc. and from that, whether Excel is adequate as a carbon supply.


Light and tank info are in my profile which is why I didn't list earlier, but I'll put them here as well:

Green Element Plant EVO 30" 6500K LED Aquarium Light
3400 Lumens
3 watt high output LEDs
20x 6,500K LED
Use 60 watts

It's also in my study where I work and does get some indirrect sunlight in the afternoon/evening. Since I'm in the room shutting the blinds is not a long term option. I'm thinking that might actually be part of the issue.

Tank is 20" deep

Thanks again!


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Yeah, that's a lot of light. Not dosing macro fertz? That's a problem. Algae problem solved!


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## TJeep_1999 (Jan 23, 2015)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Yeah, that's a lot of light. Not dosing macro fertz? That's a problem. Algae problem solved!


 
So you're saying if I start dosing macro fertz I won't have algea anymore? Or are you saying it was too much light?

Either way I think I will cut back on the light to the tank. The algea has started to come back on the sides of the tank, but a quick clean knocked it out. The rest of the tank looks pretty good and I think it's a dirrect result of cutting back on the light. Most of the growth that did appear seems to be alligned with where the light would come in from the window. While not dirrect sunlight it does seem to make a difference.

Should I ever run my light at full power or just keep it at 1/2 power from here on out?

BTW... I just noticed my title "Algea Grower" over there to the left... Love it!


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## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

I am not familiar with macro and micro ferts... I'm willing to do the work but I need to find some information on this.


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## caique (Mar 16, 2012)

This may help. http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

The tank isn't carbon-limited or light-limited so that leaves fertz. It's clearly fert-limited. NPK + micros are needed. Fe alone doesn't cut it, nor does K.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

Here you have 2 options: Number 1. cut back on the light and lower the intensity somehow, either raise the light up more or if you can adjust it and make it weaker. Possibly by half. Number 2. If you want to balance whatever fertilizers that you're getting into with your light, a pressurized co2 system is a must. Your light is way too strong and without sufficient co2, your plants will not be able use the light and nutrients to your advantage thus the fertilizers will be contributing more to algae. Liquid co2 contains no co2 at all and in fact it opens up your plant's taste buds to absorb more co2 from the water column which you don't have much and in terms will also contribute to more algae growth as the high light needs to be absorbed somewhere. This is where the pressurized co2 comes in handy. Algae can grow but they are only thin and tiny specs of plants. The only way that you can outgrow algae is to have enough plants to outgrow the algae first. Like others have mentioned before me. Fast growing plants like rotola rotundifolia, bacopa, and duckweed. When your tank has a lot of plants and the plants themselves are competing, the algae will never be able to creep up to the spot where you're at right now. Nerite snails are to me the best algae cleaner there is. Shrimps will not be your wing man, bladder or ramshorn will not help you fight your war, otocinclus will swim right past them. The SAE is a good cleaner also and will love your stringy algae like spaghetti but be aware. They are monsters if you keep them too long..


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## TJeep_1999 (Jan 23, 2015)

Krispyplants said:


> Here you have 2 options: Number 1. cut back on the light and lower the intensity somehow, either raise the light up more or if you can adjust it and make it weaker. Possibly by half. Number 2. If you want to balance whatever fertilizers that you're getting into with your light, a pressurized co2 system is a must. Your light is way too strong and without sufficient co2, your plants will not be able use the light and nutrients to your advantage thus the fertilizers will be contributing more to algae. Liquid co2 contains no co2 at all and in fact it opens up your plant's taste buds to absorb more co2 from the water column which you don't have much and in terms will also contribute to more algae growth as the high light needs to be absorbed somewhere. This is where the pressurized co2 comes in handy. Algae can grow but they are only thin and tiny specs of plants. The only way that you can outgrow algae is to have enough plants to outgrow the algae first. Like others have mentioned before me. Fast growing plants like rotola rotundifolia, bacopa, and duckweed. When your tank has a lot of plants and the plants themselves are competing, the algae will never be able to creep up to the spot where you're at right now. Nerite snails are to me the best algae cleaner there is. Shrimps will not be your wing man, bladder or ramshorn will not help you fight your war, otocinclus will swim right past them. The SAE is a good cleaner also and will love your stringy algae like spaghetti but be aware. They are monsters if you keep them too long..


After I cut back the light and manually cleaned the tank that was worked wonders at clearing up the algea and keeping it at bay. My Nerite snails have also been awesome cleaners. For what it's worth I can highly recommend them as well! What is a "SAE"?

I will look into the CO2 options as well as the fertz stated above. Am I wrong in thinking the fish should help bring CO2 up? I'm actually a little concerned about adding too much CO2 and killing my fish...

Saying all of that I feel like I do now have the algae under control, but it most definitely did take a few plants out with it... My advice to other newbies is act VERY quickly at the first signs of algae growth!!


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## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

It will take a LOT of co2 to kill your fish. I would suggest a drop checker if you're going to inject co2.

I'm mobile but I'll give a more detailed response once I'm at a computer if others haven't beaten me to it.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

SAE is the Siamese Agale Eater. 
It is near impossible to have enough fish in your tank to produce sufficient co2 to coincide with high light and control algae. 
The only time that I hear of co2 killing fish is when people use the diy co2 method. Which in my opinion is mainly either the yeast itself leaking alcohol into your tank or the up and down constant pH swing being activated by the co2 yeast production swing. I never had enough co2 from the diy co2 method. This method should really be meant for an alternative fix if your co2 system stops working accordingly. I have a 50 gal with probably 5-8 or maybe more bubbles per second on the bubble counter. I mean too fast to even count. Have 2 hillstream loach a bunch of cpd half a dozen of white clouds and believe me. My co2 checker stays pure yellow when my co2 kicks on. Many have claimed that hillstream loaches absolutely need highly oxygenated water but the real key here is acclimation. All fish needs highly oxygenated water in reality but they can adapt. Start out with small amounts like 1 bps and slowly tweak up the co2 daily. If your co2 checker stays green, I can swear that it will not kill any fish due to low oxygen levels. Its not the co2 that kills, its the pH swing that kills. Also co2 lowers pH depending on how much co2 you inject. A timer is highly recommended for a co2 system. Not convinced yet? For human beings we need a lot of oxygen but we have houses. Very low concentration of oxygen only enters the house and co2 will build up due to us up taking oxygen and producing co2. Do we pass out and float? No we adapt and live on.


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## TJeep_1999 (Jan 23, 2015)

Krispyplants said:


> SAE is the Siamese Agale Eater.


good to know... 





Krispyplants said:


> Do we pass out and float?


Good info on CO2, but the best quote is the one above :wink: Thank you for taking the time to detail the response.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

CO2 easily kills fish. CO2 is used to suffocate animals used as whole prey as it is nontoxic. If the regulator is a single stage sometimes when the tank is nearly empty and there is only gaseous CO2 in there the regulator will let gas out too fast. If something happens to the surface of the water so gas exchange is lessened then CO2 can build up, CO2 not diffuse into the water and fish can die. If using a pH controller and the probe gets knocked out of the water or water changes aren't done but KH is rising due to dissolving rock then fish could die. The pH drop from 7.6 down to 6.2-6.4 my tank goes through daily doesn't bother my fish or snails as there is a lot of O2 in the water from the ripple on the water's surface. If that ripple was gone then I would have fish piping at the surface or immobile at the bottom of the tank in a very few minutes.

I had plants outgrowing algae back when I had 6 T12 bulbs over a 50 gallon tank and they are doing the same now with CO2 but there is a lot less algae for the plants to outgrow these days. Part of this is because I learned more about fertilizing plants, not just the CO2. The plants were clearly fine under the thick coating of fuzzy algae back when though. Healthy plants don't die from a coating of algae, in the wild plants are often covered with algae and do just fine.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

Kathyy said:


> CO2 easily kills fish. CO2 is used to suffocate animals used as whole prey as it is nontoxic. If the regulator is a single stage sometimes when the tank is nearly empty and there is only gaseous CO2 in there the regulator will let gas out too fast. If something happens to the surface of the water so gas exchange is lessened then CO2 can build up, CO2 not diffuse into the water and fish can die. If using a pH controller and the probe gets knocked out of the water or water changes aren't done but KH is rising due to dissolving rock then fish could die. The pH drop from 7.6 down to 6.2-6.4 my tank goes through daily doesn't bother my fish or snails as there is a lot of O2 in the water from the ripple on the water's surface. If that ripple was gone then I would have fish piping at the surface or immobile at the bottom of the tank in a very few minutes.
> 
> I had plants outgrowing algae back when I had 6 T12 bulbs over a 50 gallon tank and they are doing the same now with CO2 but there is a lot less algae for the plants to outgrow these days. Part of this is because I learned more about fertilizing plants, not just the CO2. The plants were clearly fine under the thick coating of fuzzy algae back when though. Healthy plants don't die from a coating of algae, in the wild plants are often covered with algae and do just fine.


I have only used one co2 regulator. The paintball one from aquatek and that thing never let me down once. Nor did it ever suffocate any of my fish to death. I have not lost a fish in half a year now and I do count them when I mess with the tank. With that being said if your co2 injection level is running at a paste that is so strong that it'll kill your fish then you should know that the Ph drop/swing is what tackles down the fish and the co2 is there but it's the ph that knocks the fish unconscious. There for the fish will be unable to extract enough oxygen within the co2'd water column. Now that swing is like a first time alcohol drinker. If he drinks a whole bunch he may pass out but if he drinks a little and increase it every time that he drinks on different occasions. He will be able to "handle" more swings than a normal person that has never drank before. Throw a discus in a tank with high concentration of co2 and it may suffocate and gasp for air but throw a discus in extremely soft water and it'll float sideways. Gasping is the sign of the fish not being able to handle the ph swing. That is why many says that you can train a fish with co2 but the sad truth is training them with the ph swing. Though you did hit many spots, a tank using high co2 do need surface agitation as the bubbles may collect and raise the co2 level.


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## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

It's most certainly the CO2 itself suffocating the fish and not the PH swing as it were that will kill them. PH Swings are bad - but PH swings caused by GH/KH issues are what kill your fish not PH changes due to Co2 injection. If your fish die due to CO2 injection chances are [if pressurized] you've injected too much and simply suffocated them. If your fish die due to CO2 injection and you're using DIY then chances are some yeast/alcohol got into the tank.

The water's actual PH isn't changing - once the CO2 dissipates to the environment/you stop injecting you'll find that your water's PH isn't still low and will normalize wherever it was prior to you injecting CO2 assuming your GH/KH hasn't been used up/changed.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

MikeDVB said:


> It's most certainly the CO2 itself suffocating the fish and not the PH swing as it were that will kill them. PH Swings are bad - but PH swings caused by GH/KH issues are what kill your fish not PH changes due to Co2 injection. If your fish die due to CO2 injection chances are [if pressurized] you've injected too much and simply suffocated them. If your fish die due to CO2 injection and you're using DIY then chances are some yeast/alcohol got into the tank.
> 
> The water's actual PH isn't changing - once the CO2 dissipates to the environment/you stop injecting you'll find that your water's PH isn't still low and will normalize wherever it was prior to you injecting CO2 assuming your GH/KH hasn't been used up/changed.


 Suffocating but will not be able to kill because water has too much oxygen molecules and fish breathe water, not co2 bubbles. The longer they sit in high co2 levels of water the more they will be able to breathe in more oxygen. The hard swing is the bomb and the co2 is the detonator. Now, Ph swings from co2 are extremely dangerous if pushed too far down. If you have water that is really soft already for say 5.5-6 and some fish may like this but the addition with the same amount of co2 that I use, will surely kill a few types of fish dropping the ph level too low. Now that wouldn't happen in my tank right? Water does have its own general hardness but co2 is a major buffer for the time that its being implied. Just because your ph goes back to normal at night doesn't mean that the ph swing during the day is harmless.


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