# ADA's Penac-P & W, Bacter 100, Clear Super, Tourmaline BC?



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Isn't it possible that those great tank videos are a result of the brand of clothing that the owner of the tank wears? Or, perhaps it is more due to the color of the walls in the room, or the fine carpet on the floor, or eating a good vegetarian diet, or exercising regularly, etc.  That's all ridiculous, but just because someone has a great looking aquascape doesn't mean that every detail surrounding that tank is essential to duplicating that success. Otherwise, when George Foreman recommends a method for cooking hot dogs, we should all use that method so we can be as "charming" as he is, or as wealthy, etc. (I know that doesn't work - I tried it, and I'm neither charming nor wealthy.)


----------



## adriano (Nov 4, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> just because someone has a great looking aquascape doesn't mean that every detail surrounding that tank is essential to duplicating that success.


Obviously, but as I'm quite ignorant to *these particular products*...



adriano said:


> Can anyone with experience tell me if there's a noticeable improvement in plant growth/health with their use?


----------



## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

It's like Carl's junior turkey burger with miss turkey ads


----------



## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

I want a turkey burger now.


----------



## adriano (Nov 4, 2011)

So, contrived sarcasm aside, I guess no one has experience using this stuff.

Disappointing.


----------



## Heartnet (Sep 13, 2009)

Frank watzer from ADG posted up a really detailed explanation about the ADA additive system, which includes all the ones you mentiones, in his journal. Look for it in his profile; you should see it in the sponser's section.

From what i gleaned in his journal though, he likens it to supplements; do you need it? Probably not. Is it nice, or perhaps helpful to have, just like supplements,vitamins and whatnot. Certainly - if you have the money for it. It won't be detrimental to your tank at the very least.

Now whether it actually helps plant growth or does anything it claims to, I certainly haven't seen any statistical or experimental data to back it up. 

I've only recently bought and used tourmaline f (which is basically tourmaline bc, except you put it in the filter instead) with their bio rio, so who knows. I'll have to continue to observe for any differences, if any.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


----------



## adriano (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks for the input. I'll search for that journal.


----------



## Heartnet (Sep 13, 2009)

I was on my phone before. Here's the thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...um/155525-ada-adg-gallery-journal-how-do.html

Go to post #70.


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

adriano said:


> So, contrived sarcasm aside, I guess no one has experience using this stuff.
> 
> Disappointing.



That's not really the case. This topic has been debated for a while on this forum. You should do advance search on "substrate".


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

green_valley said:


> That's not really the case. This topic has been debated for a while on this forum. You should do advance search on "substrate".


Contrived sarcasm is usually a go to response for those who have no actual experience with a product or reference for solid info.


----------



## kalawai2000 (Jan 15, 2011)

adriano said:


> So, contrived sarcasm aside, I guess no one has experience using this stuff.
> 
> Disappointing.



I have used Penac W and P but I'm not really sure whats going on in my substrate. I do know that I have very good growth in my plants but I can't give those two products kudos in the growth.
I might have just paid for fluff....:tongue:


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

adriano said:


> So, contrived sarcasm aside, I guess no one has experience using this stuff.
> 
> Disappointing.


Yes I have, but it's similar to the sarcasm that's been posted after NOT using it with the ADA AS alone.

Unless you have done both cases, you cannot say even if you have added it because those that have, also have added ADA aqua soil alogn with it in virtually every case.

So they cannot say individually what each product actually does.......only that when they use the entire system, not which each part does individually independent of the other.

I suggest you try one with and without but use the ADA AS.
That's where the lion's share of the benefits from the "sediment system" comes from, not the added marketed extras.


----------



## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Here's a really interesting thread regarding different substrates - a side-by-side-by-side comparison over time. Something to keep in mind when deciding whether to seriously dig into the wallet:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/cryptocorynes/76369-substrate-experiment-commercial.html


----------



## adriano (Nov 4, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Yes I have, but it's similar to the sarcasm that's been posted after NOT using it with the ADA AS alone.
> 
> Unless you have done both cases, you cannot say even if you have added it because those that have, also have added ADA aqua soil alogn with it in virtually every case.
> 
> ...


I intend to use AS Amazonia, regardless.

For the rest - yes, I was mainly curious about the supposed benefits of all five products used in concert, rather than in varying combinations (obviously it's unrealistic to expect to find opinions of using products 'ABC' vs 'ACD' vs 'BCE', and so forth).

I'm only interested in keeping one more tank at this time, so, aside from not exactly being cost-effective, I'm not likely to conduct any such comparative experiments on my own.

Hence this thread.



kevmo911 said:


> Here's a really interesting thread regarding different substrates - a side-by-side-by-side comparison over time. Something to keep in mind when deciding whether to seriously dig into the wallet:
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/cryptocorynes/76369-substrate-experiment-commercial.html


Thanks. Looks like a worthwhile read.


----------



## dantra (May 25, 2007)

kevmo911 said:


> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/cryptocorynes/76369-substrate-experiment-commercial.html


Now that was interesting. Thanks for posting it. roud:

Dan


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

There doesn't seem to be any serious debate about the benefits of using Aqua Soil - it is a great substrate.

The substrate additives are a different issue.

So I guess the answer is "Use Aqua Soil and make up your own mind on the additives."


----------



## Schneeball (Dec 28, 2011)

dantra said:


> Now that was interesting. Thanks for posting it. roud:
> 
> Dan


The main problem I have with that experiment is this "I also spray the plants daily, the spray has 1ml of MiracleGro Seafeed 3 in 1 mixed into 500ml of water."

Plus he added a small amount of fertilizer to the water each day. This to my mind would negate the results. Leaf feeding is a very effective way to get fertilizer to plants so the roots wouldn't have to work as hard. Fertilizer in the water is also hitting the roots. Still, I would have expected more difference so I feel better about my Flourite now. :smile:


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

madness said:


> So I guess the answer is "Use Aqua Soil and make up your own mind on the additives."


Yes, pretty much. 

Amano when pressed by a group said the same thing, he said they are not essential and the marketing guys said to try these things out. That's from Amano himself.

As far as growth test, plain old dirt works just fine, and the delta clay they use in rice paddies is pretty much identical to ADA AS, but...it's a lot messier and folks use a sand cap, but as far as growth.....they are pretty much the same.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Schneeball said:


> The main problem I have with that experiment is this "I also spray the plants daily, the spray has 1ml of MiracleGro Seafeed 3 in 1 mixed into 500ml of water."
> 
> Plus he added a small amount of fertilizer to the water each day. This to my mind would negate the results. Leaf feeding is a very effective way to get fertilizer to plants so the roots wouldn't have to work as hard. Fertilizer in the water is also hitting the roots. Still, I would have expected more difference so I feel better about my Flourite now. :smile:


Ahh..........what test did this?
If so, then the test is not about the sediment.........the plants are getting nutrients from the spray, you cannot use any spray/water column source if you are planning a critical test on the sediment alone. You have strong dependency on the water column.

You cannot say much about the sediment in such cases.


----------



## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Schneeball said:


> The main problem I have with that experiment is this "I also spray the plants daily, the spray has 1ml of MiracleGro Seafeed 3 in 1 mixed into 500ml of water."
> 
> Plus he added a small amount of fertilizer to the water each day. This to my mind would negate the results. Leaf feeding is a very effective way to get fertilizer to plants so the roots wouldn't have to work as hard. Fertilizer in the water is also hitting the roots. Still, I would have expected more difference so I feel better about my Flourite now. :smile:


Yes, you are absolutely correct. He did add ferts to the water column and sprayed them with MiracleGro, here is the quote:



FarCanal said:


> I treat this tank like all my other emersed tanks, to the water I add a single drop of water column ferts daily. I use an Australian product called dino pee which is similar to seachem flourish I think. I also spray the plants daily, the spray has 1ml of MiracleGro Seafeed 3 in 1 mixed into 500ml of water. The spray is a very dilute fert and I give the spray bottle 3 pulls of the trigger for a 3' tank (left, middle, right) just for the foliage. Next time I do an experiment like this I will have a control pot with just fine gravel to see how much affect the fert regime has.


As far as I'm concerned, that alone negates the experiment and the final results are null and void of any growth associated to the sediment and/or additives. However he gets credit for being honest and disclosing it.

Dan


----------

