# 20 gallon *Updated



## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)




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## co2 (Sep 13, 2004)

Good progress, the tank looks good. Where did you get the actual tank? Looks a lot like the one's Amano uses.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Looking good. Gotta love those lilly pipes, they look great. Looking forward to seeing the 'final look'.


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## Inzeos (Sep 10, 2004)

If you look at the web site in his signature you can find out more about the tank.

http://aquascapingjournals.com/journals/20_gallon.htm


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

The tank has a really refreshing look to it. I like the no background look, I recently removed mine also.


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

That tank is fabulous, I'd love to replace my standard 20 gallon tank with one of those. What I didn't see mentioned was how much does a 20 gallon starfire glass tank with those parameters cost? The clarity of that glass is really amazing. As soon as I saw it, I was thinking, Uh oh as soon as he starts scraping algae, he is gonna scratch that acrylic.
-Aphyosemion


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

This is the info on the tank,
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10056&highlight=amano+tank

From what I hear, All-glass aquariums are coming out with a low iron glass tank line in 2005. Remove the trim and you'd be all set, for much less. 

Thanks for the comments.


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## Kimbo (Oct 30, 2004)

tank looks awesome!


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

Oh, JESUS!!! $400 for a 20 gallon tank??? Oh my freaking....ARG....<clutches chest> too much......crazy....ack.....urp......<drops over> <plop>.
-Aphyosemion


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## sn8k (May 24, 2004)

Aphyosemion said:


> Oh, JESUS!!! $400 for a 20 gallon tank??? Oh my freaking....ARG....<clutches chest> too much......crazy....ack.....urp......<drops over> <plop>.
> -Aphyosemion


Can you imagine how much a 150 gallon tank like this would run?? It's enought to baffle the mind. Nice tank though - really like the look roud:


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## pphx459 (Jun 25, 2004)

Very nice looking tank, how do you clean it without scratching it?


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

It's starphire glass, not acrylic. No scratches.


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## Crs2fr (Sep 22, 2004)

this kat!.. . has money to burn~..<< not even in that same boat!.. . i'm still waiting to afford co2~

chris


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Yeah, starphire is not cheap. This is my dream tank, and I have been planning it for awhile. Oceanic wanted twice as much to build the same tank.


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

*Starfire*

You definately are driving the pimped out, shiny rimmed, music thumping, moneymobile of the fish tank world. The rest of us can only look on with envy and hope that maybe you will decide you need a bigger starfire tank and sell us your old one for $50.
-Aphyosemion


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## Crs2fr (Sep 22, 2004)

where can i get a cheap co2 system.. anyone know of a site~. my LFS wants 180 for the complete setup`

chris


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Ask Marc at aquatic store to price match this (save on shipping),
http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/pr840.html


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Iunknown - that tank is killer! You seem to driving toward focusing on plants and fish, with little minimal visual interference (tank seams, background, glass coloration, wires...). Or at least it looks that way. I love that look, but I'll never get there if I have to spend what you did on that tank... oh well.

Here's a link to a way to get that pH probe out of the tank. For so much invested in a beautiful tank, $7 more and a few minutes work can remove a lot of vusual clutter. probe removal post 

Also, love those glass onflow/outflow tubes. But how often to do you have to clean them?

Great tank! :icon_bigg Can't wait to see more...


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Scolley,
Thanks for the pH idea, I'm going to HD today! The best thing I could think of was a black cover to hide the yellow probe. I guess I never really looked into it because the probe is such a critical part of the setup, that I didn't think it would work in-flow. But you've convinced me, and that is the last equipment piece that was in the tank.

My tank had a chronic algae problem the month before this picture. I would have to clean the glass pipes every two weeks. The only hose brush I have is the eheim impeller brush that came with my canister. I took an old coax cable and made a tool to brush out the algae in the pipes. The tank balanced out last week (no algae on the tank glass at all), so lets see how long the pipes will go. The clear tubes are actually what get dirty first.

I think if I started making the pipes myself, so that the cost was lower, people would be willing to experiment with them more. They are not a good option for everyone. Your tank should be established, and they do require maintenance. 

Thanks again for the tip. I'm excited because now that the tank is balanced I can finally start concentrating on the aquascaping. I've got a great piece of driftwood that is sitting in a bucket full of water, ready to add some character to the tank.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

My pleasure. It's just an investment in seeing how that tank is going to turn out!

I the coupling I got from valin.com was a 3/4" fitting, so at HD, look for some PVC with a 3/4" threaded T.

Please be sure and update us on those glass pipes. For the "no plumbing" look, it seems a great investment. But at the same time, because they are so crystal clear, it seems like even a little algae would really stand out. But who knows... as you said, after the tank gets settled, it may be no issue at all. I hope so!


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

I haven't used the glass pipes that long yet, but they are not as bad as I thought they would be. I've only had to take them out and clean them about two times since I've had them. Otherwise, its just wiping off the outside of the pipes every two weeks, along with the glass on the aquarium. I should probably keep a journal to get a feel for how much maintenance they take.

Wish they made starphire tanks locally, would have saved me the $150 that shipping from Canada cost.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

3 weeks worth of growth. Now that the tank is balanced, I'm going to try to aquascape the tank this weekend.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Wow, that's some pretty impressive growth there. Definitely time to trim the tank and aquascape it. Can't wait to see what it'll look like when there's hardscape in there.

BTW, let me know if you have any spare clippings left.


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## maestro001 (Oct 22, 2004)

wow thats some impressive growth, what lighting are you using?


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

I'm using 2 x 55w PC's. More detail here,
http://www.aquascapingjournals.com/journals/20_gallon.htm


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

So, it's been another month. What's the word on those lily pipes? Still relatively easy to keep clean?

Gomer started thread with a link to the ADA site ADA US Distribution thread that has them for sale.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Yeah, I saw that. I was wondering how much the Lillie pipes were going to cost, since I had been told each pipe was around $70. The thing is the tank that the pipes are on right now is really stable. I haven't cleaned the pipes in over a month. The inside glass doesn't get dirty as fast as the outside for some reason. So it depends on your setup. If your tank is under control, its probably worth it. Watch out with the ADA kits though, the glass is half as thick as the ones I produced, and they are very brittle. I'm hoping to get the cost to around $30 a kit, and at that point I think people would be willing to experiment.


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## fishyboy (Nov 16, 2003)

if you actualyl get them to 30 i'll go for them.. but it's not worth it to me at 80.. plus i'll have to have a 2nd set because i have 2 filters


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

So, I went back and read your other threads about your self produced lily pipes - sorry, should have done that before now...

Do you still have any of that original batch for sale? If so PM me pls. Got some questions, and a good bit of interest!


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Tank is filling in,


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Greg, the tank is looked great! Looks like you being diligent at keeping the lilly pipes clean, too. 

Are you seriously planning on trying out those Aqua Traders MH+PC pendants? Looks like the tanks is doing wonderful under the present lighting so I don't know if I'd mess with a good thing.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

IUnknown said:


> I haven't cleaned the pipes in over a month. The inside glass doesn't get dirty as fast as the outside _for some reason_.


 Water flow :wink: 
I agree with the lighting...if it aint broke dont fix it. The tank is looking nice , good growth and algae free...what more can ya ask for ? roud:


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

Your plant selection is great, nothing looks out of place.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Trimmed all the background plants to get them to grow back in bushier.









Larger image click here


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Looks nice, is that glosso in the front?


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I like the tank without the background plants, it kinda makes that step down in front of the wood more pronounced. That is one bizarre looking plant you have back there in the right corner with the real fine grass look. In its place I can see a beautiful red lotus in that corner. :icon_bigg


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

It looks whorly, but I'd still guess that it's the giant eleocharis that has been getting kind of popular recently. I dunno Buck, I kind of like the giant eleocharis.  

Plus, you can twine up other plants in it for an interesting look, like micranthemoides or riccia.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> Looks nice, is that glosso in the front?


Yes it is  .



> It looks whorly, but I'd still guess that it's the giant eleocharis that has been getting kind of popular recently.


Yeah I'm currently in love with this plant, but can't really get it to grow. It has been very popular in recent copies of aquajournal. It looks really great once it has grown in.


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

Any updates? I am curious how the stems grew in after the pruning.


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

I'm still reading this whole thread (WOW!) but where can i find those clear round pvc inlet and outlet tubes? is it something special ordered or something I can find easily?

thx
Raymond




IUnknown said:


>


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Larger image click here


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey IUnknown - That is some thick Glosso! Was it like that before the cool new Tek light? Or is that an outcome of the light? roud:


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

I had the glosso before, but under the tek light (running less wpg now, only the middle bank 2x24W) the glosso leaf size is much smaller. It looks a lot better in the smaller tank.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

awesome.....


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

When the rotala finally fills in I think I'm going to take some nice pictures. To bad the glosso will be a little overgrown by then. I want to start keeping a log of the growth rates of the plants in this tank, given the amount of light that is being used. That way I can time everything so that none of the plants are overgrown when I take the final picture.


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## timr (Mar 23, 2005)

Beautiful tank, that's just awsome roud:


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Looking good =)


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Wow. I must say I love that look. You've got the whole enchelada... open top, low equipment profile, nice all glass tank, great light, and really, really healthy looking plants. Great stuff! _This_, for me, is a great shot of an ideal setup. roud:


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Finally tried to get some nice shots. I need to read up on the photography articles. My buddy is coming over tomorrow with a nicer camera, and he knows more than I do.

"Garden statue"









The setup,


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## New 2 fish (Dec 26, 2004)

:icon_eek: WOW. That is an incredible tank.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Looks sweet, almost like a T.V!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

How'd you get the surface ripples? Don't see any equipment.

Magnificent effect! roud:


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Thanks,
Steve, I'd run over to the tank with a hair dryer while the timer on the camera was getting ready to go off.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Greg, 
The only suggestion I'd make is to add some lighting for the background...maybe a flourescent strip from below to light the bottom half of it since the top half looks to be getting good light from the tank.

The tank itself is looking great!


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Thanks Bill,
Yeah, I'm going to read up on all the photography tips today. My buddy's camera has an external flash. I agree that the shot needs a lot more light. I want to try contrast masking to get some detail out of the shadows. As for the flash placement/light hopefully my friend can figure the best way to do it. I need to take a photography class...


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## chadly (May 17, 2005)

what a great thread! I think your tutorial/journal is very informative and well managed. Thanks for sharing.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

IUnknown said:


> Steve, I'd run over to the tank with a hair dryer while the timer on the camera was getting ready to go off.


Aw man, please tell me you are kidding! I want a way to make my tank look like that all the time. The effect is a killer!

Sounds like a good idea for your next project...


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

IUnknown said:


> Thanks Bill,
> Yeah, I'm going to read up on all the photography tips today. My buddy's camera has an external flash. I agree that the shot needs a lot more light. I want to try contrast masking to get some detail out of the shadows. As for the flash placement/light hopefully my friend can figure the best way to do it. I need to take a photography class...


Another way to get around this is to take two exposures. One blown out to expose the highlights and one similar to what you have done. Then use Photoshop and blend the two together at the end.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

scolley said:


> Aw man, please tell me you are kidding! I want a way to make my tank look like that all the time. The effect is a killer!
> 
> Sounds like a good idea for your next project...


Unfortunately you would stand to lose CO2 if this were always the case!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

John P. said:


> Unfortunately you would stand to lose CO2 if this were always the case!


Good point. How about the flip of a switch, on-demand as it were? Sorry for the marginally off-topic post!


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

scolley said:


> Good point. How about the flip of a switch, on-demand as it were? Sorry for the marginally off-topic post!


Seems like PC fans would work.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> Unfortunately you would stand to lose CO2 if this were always the case!


That and screw up the lighting maybe? 

I want to figure out how to have the background like that at all times. I've seen plastic vinyl used for signage that has gradeints. Maybe that along with a slim box housing a small light to create the effect, but looking athetically pleasing with the normal setup? Maybe the light from the pendant would be enough, the gradient on the plastic might create the effect?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

What did you do to achieve the gradient lighting in the shot you just posted? It looks fantastic!

I've been tinkering with a mental image of my own desires for a gradient lighting effect, that I assume would only be used for "show", not for "grow". But franlkly I've spent no time yet trying to figure out how to do it.

Care to tell your secret? I can't tell from your "setup" shot. Was it just your background catching the "spillover" light at the top, with little to no spill at the bottom to be reflected?


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

The tank looks beautiful ! 
Just as a side note on the water rippling effect. You would not lose significant amounts of CO2 with ripples on the water from flow... you will only lose it with the use of an aerator or HOB filter drop that "breaks" the surface rather then just moves it with flow. The loss will be a little more but not devestating.
Anyways... 
I love the look of all green with the splash of red in the center and how all seems to just blend together ! Beautiful ! roud:


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Thanks Buck..

Steve, yeah, that is just some white board slanted a little to create the effect. The light is just the left over light from the pendant. Tried to get some Amano type shots last night with my buddies camera, not much luck.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Cool. Thanks - that's easy.

BTW - I think that "Garden Statue" shot has _AGA 2005 entry _ written all over it! roud:


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Greg,
With just on-camera metering you'll need to work to get the fore, mid and background all exposed properly. Like Eric suggested, you probably need to bracket some shots and blend the various portions to compose the final image.

If you have a really tight spot meter on the camera you could try fixing the exposure settings on the top of the Rotala stand. This will keep it from being blown out and also give the micranthemoides more exposure.

And for heaven's sake...clean out your intake pipe!!!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

That would work, expose the shots with the rotalas. This ought to preserve the details in them while making everything else around it pretty dark. Then you can either mask off the rotalas and crank up the exposure for the rest of the shot or overlay another exposure on top of it.


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## sacolley (Jun 20, 2005)

I like your tank quite a lot. I found this thread while surfing for a source for low-iron glass in small quanities. I'm planning a frameless, open top cube reeftank plumbed through the bottom. I'm wondering why more of you freshwater guys don't plumb through the bottom and run a second tank out of sight below for increased stability afforded by the greater water volume and as a place to place equipment out of sight. Thanks for the thread.

BTW I see there is another scolley in here. And I thought myself unique.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

sacolley said:


> BTW I see there is another scolley in here. And I thought myself unique.


Yes there is - welcome aboard! I've sent you a Private Message!

Some people do run sumps exactly as you suggest. While some use overflow boxes, others use durso's and similar equipment through bulkheads. The general reservation is that the water movement can be a problem in out-gassing the CO2. But if you do a search on sumps, I think you'll find some people do as you suggest, and do it quite successfully.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

I tried that in the past. I used them originally to increase oxygen saturation, and for the reasons you suggested. Wet/dry filters stopped being my favorite method because it was harder to maintain water clarity. My water always had particulates in the water column using the wet/dry filter. If I were to use bulkheads, I would do it the way scooley did and use them on the bottom only. Aquascapes change so much through the years that the bulkheads just get in the way and limit your options. They also lower the resale value of the tank. I have a bunch of acrylic tanks that are sitting in my garage just because they have old bulkhead holes on them.


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## Kelpie (Jun 23, 2005)

Inzeos said:


> If you look at the web site in his signature you can find out more about the tank.
> 
> http://aquascapingjournals.com/journals/20_gallon.htm


I really like your tank. I'm having some low-iron glass cut for a cube I'm building. I just want to ask you what a "diamond edge" is. Is it some sort of bevel? Is it on all the edges?

One more: I'm leaning toward the clear silicone as you used, in fact I've already bought it. Why did you choose clear over black?


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Diamond edge=minimal silicone in the corners
http://www.clearforlife.com/vgdiamondedge.html

I think when they use black silicone it is called Euro trim. I would think the black would be distracting. My goal with this tank was to get all the equipment out of the tank, and to use a tank that had little visual impact.


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