# MTS = No pond snails



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Has anyone else noticed this?

In short, what I have witnessed is that in any tank with an established Mayalsian Trumpet Snail population, pond snails don't reproduce, and simply die out over time.

Let me detail my experiences.

My 1st attempt with keeping live plants, I received a few pond snail hitchhikers. In my naviety, I actually thought they were kinda cool. Couple of weeks later, there were dozens, which was even cooler. Later, when there were hundreds, I started to worry. And when there were thousands, I hated them with every fiber of my being.

I didn't want to try chemical treatments, and I couldn't find any snail predators locally that were appropriate for my size tank and tankmates. So I resorted to manual removal. But no matter how many I removed, there were always more. And if I grew lax in my efforts, their population would quickly rebound.

One day in a pet shop, I saw some little cone-shaped snails digging in the gravel of one of their tanks. I'd already given up on eliminating the snail menace, so why not add some variety? The guy at the pet store thought I was crazy, but gave me half a dozen for free and was happy to get rid of them.

Into my tank they went. Weeks went by and the strange new snails multiplied and prospered. And as they did, I noticed that pond snail egg masses grew rarer, and that manual removal of the pond snails was having a more lasting effect. I tapered off removal of pond snails as they reached a reasonable number, and finally quit removing them altogether.

A few months later, there was not a pond snail in my tank.. What the heck was this new snail? A quick check on the web revealed it to be the Malaysian Trumpet Snail. I was surprised to read that unlike pond snails, MTS are generally considered beneficial because they don't eat plants, but do each detritus and algae, and keep the substrate tilled. Wow, I actually did something right without knowing it!

Since then, I have kept MTS in all my tanks. Pond snails have been reintroduced on many occasions. They live out their lives and grow large, but never reproduce. Unless more are added, they eventually become extinct.

I had a friend who was also suffering from pond snail plague. It took her a few months to convince her, but she allowed me to add a dozen MTS. As months went by, the MTS population grew, and the pond snail population decreased. Now her tank is pond snail free too.

I don't think this can be adequately explained by the MTS outcompeting pond snails for food, as the pond snails eat plants and MTS don't. It could be some allelopathic effect, but more likely, I think the MTS actually destroys pond snail eggs. I witnessed a MTS munching on a snail egg cluster once. It didn't seem to be having much success, but maybe they damage the protective goo to the point the eggs die?


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

very good article, I have the same problem. I'm not sure what you mean by pond snails, but I think you mean thoes little tiny snails that hitch hick on plants. I've have hundreds of them and they munch on my plants. Like you said, at the beggining I thought they were cool at first, but now I hate them with every fiber in my being... lol... I'm going to go to my LFS tomorow and buy some MTS. I've heard from many other people that they are good for a planted tank... I'll give anything a try to get rid of the "pond" snails.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Not exactly, my experience, but there might be something to it. I seem to have always had MTS, pond snail (the footballish shaped one) and ramshorn snails (the one shaped like a ram's horn :tongue: ). I've added a half dozen loaches, and I still have all three. The number of pond and ramshorn are certainly at a reasonable level. As as to the MTS, I can't really say, because I seldom check after light's out.

It'll be interesting to see what others have to say!
Brian.


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## Jerm (Sep 26, 2005)

I asked before if adding MTS would out-compete pond & ramshorn snails, but i was told no. So i didn't add any. Well, now i'm going to get some MTS!!! O yeah, why would someone be willing to buy ramshorn snails? Even the red ones. I have both varietys in my tank. I think they (the ramshorns) and the ponds kill each other and eat chunks out of each others shells. Can snails do that, or are my snails chipping their shells some other way?


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## bpm2000 (Feb 16, 2005)

puffers = no snails 
I had MTS, pond, and ramshorn in my old tank without competition.


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

Too bad puffers need brackish water and they are extreamly agressive.

Anyone know what the deal with MTS is? do they reduce pond snail populations? Do they eat plants?


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## FobbyBobby (Mar 7, 2004)

hm..i have MTS and those ugly common pond snails..no affect on their pop. they still reproduce like crazy and i hate them


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## hir0 (Nov 3, 2005)

i've had a bad experience with mts. i had them in a tank with tanganyikan cichlids. they somehow found their way into my emperor filter and magnum filter, clogged both of the impellers (didn't notice). one day i came home to find both filters jammed and most of my tanganyikans dead. i guess there wasn't enough o2. not sure how long the filters were jammed but when i cleaned them out, there were hundreds of mts.


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## toofazt (Jun 18, 2005)

shuks said:


> Too bad puffers need brackish water and they are extreamly agressive.
> 
> Anyone know what the deal with MTS is? do they reduce pond snail populations? Do they eat plants?


Ummm... All of these are *Freshwater* Puffers:
Auriglobus Modestus "Bronze Puffer"
Carinotetraodon irrubesco "Red-tailed Red Eye Puffer"
Carinotetraodon lorteti "Red Eye Puffer"
Carinotetraodon travancoricus "Dwarf Puffer"
Colomesus asellus "South American Puffer"
Tetraodon cochinchinensis "Red Spot Puffer"
Tetraodon leiurus "Target Puffer"
Tetraodon lineatus "Fahaka Puffer"
Tetraodon mbu "Mbu Puffer"
Tetraodon miurus "Congo Puffer"
Tetraodon palembangensis "Palembang Puffer"
Tetraodon suvattii "Arrowhead Puffer"
Tetraodon turgidus "Common Puffer"

And not all puffers are extreamly agressive, but they should be kept in species only tanks because most will nip fins of other fish.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

This is interesting. So far, three replies saying that MTS did not affect their pond snail population, and none saying they did.

I kind of expected that. If MTS were sure-fire pond snail killers, I'd think they'd be mentioned every time someone asks how to get rid of a pond snail infestation. Which is frequently.

Yet, for some reason, the result is consistent and repeatable for me.

I did a little searching on the web, and found only two references to MTS outcompeting pond snails or eating their eggs:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....outcompete+pond&rnum=1&hl=en#9358077b41c4d648
http://www.fishinthe.net/html/forum...iew=next&sid=85c41249c84c62bff87a4d396608862f

I found lots of references that MTS are extremely efficient fish egg eaters. (That's something I didn't know - so best to keep them out of any tank you want to breed egglaying fish in!)

Perhaps the difference is a matter of tank contents. If the MTS can't locate or reach the pond snail eggs, they can't eat them. (In the case of BSS' tank, even a half-dozen loaches can't seem to find all the pond snails!)

Or maybe my MTS aren't getting enough food in the substrate and are seeking out alternate food sources.

Or it could even be the breed. All my MTS are bred from the original six I got from that petstore. I have noticed my MTS behave differently than other MTS owners describe - they don't care if the lights are on or not. Most stay on/in the substrate, but there are always quite a few MTS checking out the glass, plants, etc. I've peeked after the lights have been out a few hours, and it's the same scene.


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## ttan (Nov 27, 2005)

I have MTS and red ramshorns, and there will be dozens if not more egg masses from the ramshorns and over the next night or so, they will dwindle to a few here and there. I thought the MTS were eating them, but I was never awake to check. I don't think the fish or ramshorns were eating them, they never showed any interest.


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

Seems to me that pondsnail are tastier to fish than MTS. In my shrimp tanks I have MTS and pondsnails, but in my tank with fish I have MTS but no pondsnails.


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## otter (Oct 22, 2005)

I'll pay postage and handling for anyone willing to send me quantities of Ramshorns or pond snails (no MTS, too hard for puffers). I can't breed them fast enough for him to eat! I've started a breeding tank for them, but they're just not reproducing fast enough, or at all as far as I can tell.


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## Sterving (Dec 23, 2004)

ttan said:


> I have MTS and red ramshorns, and there will be dozens if not more egg masses from the ramshorns and over the next night or so, they will dwindle to a few here and there. I thought the MTS were eating them, but I was never awake to check. I don't think the fish or ramshorns were eating them, they never showed any interest.


I had good experience getting rid of pond snails by introducing a few adult mystery snails along with manual removal. Several weeks later I couldn't find a pond snail anywhere at all. I later introduced a dozen or so of MTS. Now there are probably many hundreds of them, and the gravel just keeps moving. Dozens come up at night.


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

> I had good experience getting rid of pond snails by introducing a few adult mystery snails along with manual removal. Several weeks later I couldn't find a pond snail anywhere at all. I later introduced a dozen or so of MTS. Now there are probably many hundreds of them, and the gravel just keeps moving. Dozens come up at night.


do the MTS cause a problem? Would you be beter of without them? 

I wan to give them a try, just to get rif of my pond snails.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

shuks said:


> do the MTS cause a problem? Would you be beter of without them?


IMO, they are beneficial in that they mostly live in the substrate (thereby helping stir it up a bit), they mostly hide during the day (so they're not a real eye sore) and they tend to help clean-up (I've never see any of them damage a plant...though they will nibble on damaged plant areas).

So, I say go for 'em!


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## bpm2000 (Feb 16, 2005)

Dan Otterdahl said:


> I'll pay postage and handling for anyone willing to send me quantities of Ramshorns or pond snails (no MTS, too hard for puffers). I can't breed them fast enough for him to eat! I've started a breeding tank for them, but they're just not reproducing fast enough, or at all as far as I can tell.


how are you breeding them? I found that warmer temps + cleaner water really speeded up their breeding (and daily feedings, of course)


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Dan Otterdahl said:


> pond snails.....I've started a breeding tank for them, but they're just not reproducing fast enough, or at all as far as I can tell.


LOL! A thread on how to get rid of pond snails, turns into a thread on how to breed them..

Sorry I can't help with supplying pond snails, if you'd asked a few years ago I could have sent them almost by the pound!

Breeding them in quantity is easy and normally doesn't require any special consideration. Tank pH 7.0 or higher for proper shell development. Their activity and growth rate varies with tank temperature, so keep it 75°F or higher - I don't know the upper limit. Regularly feed them sinking algae tabs, they'll gorge themselves and breed like... well, like pond snails. Plant all your excess clippings, they'll eat those too. Any soft green algae that grows is just more snail food. Make sure they have plenty of places to lay eggs in the form of either real or plastic plants.

Duckweed is prolific and I always found lots of snails munching away at it when I had both in my tank. This worked to my benefit when I was trying to manually remove them. Scoop off the duckweed and some water in a plastic container, attach lid, shake to separate snails from duckweed, let settle for a minute. The snails sink, the duckweed floats. Put the duckweed back in the aquarium, discard the snails or feed them to a hungry critter. Crunch crunch.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Nope, the MTS won't help with the pond snail infestation. Puffers will though. The red eye red tail puffers that I had did a great job of eradicating any sort of snails above the sand surface, including MTS. I just got rid of them due to the addition of some nerites and am seeing different species of snails crop up (ramshorns, pond, and even the MTS are coming above the surface).


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

Several kinds of snails are called "pond snails." Some eat plants, but not all. I keep the Physa species and I am very happy with them. Guppies and other fish feast on the small ones. I wish they didn't.

The only bad things that I've heard about MTS is that they eat fish eggs and that in multilayer substrate aquaria, they might stir up the bottom, releasing excess nutrients to the water. I've never heard of them being a source of algae, though.

Bill


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

I've never kept MTS, but wouldnt they disturb plants roots and maybe even uproot some when they burrow into the sub-strate?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

shuks said:


> I've never kept MTS, but wouldnt they disturb plants roots and maybe even uproot some when they burrow into the sub-strate?


Never has for me. They're small and work slow. Doesn't disturb roots any more than earthworms do in your garden.

Of course, I've always used gravel as substrate, or at least as the top layer. It's heavy and holds the plants in well. Perhaps that has something to do with why they eat the snail eggs efficiently in my tanks - they might have trouble burrowing in my substrate!

Current score for whether MTS reduce/eliminate pond snails:

Yes - 2 (me included)
No - 4


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## spdskr (Nov 14, 2005)

I have MTS, pond snails, and ramshorn snails in my 29g planted tank (they were all hitch hickers on various plants). It seems they all live in harmony. I occasionally see the fish eating the eggs of the pond and ramshorn snails. I use flourite as my substrate and have not had any plants uprooted by the digging of the MTS. In fact I rarely observe the MTS other than seeing the substrate move above them.


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## Jerm (Sep 26, 2005)

DarkCobra said:


> Duckweed is prolific and I always found lots of snails munching away at it when I had both in my tank. This worked to my benefit when I was trying to manually remove them. Scoop off the duckweed and some water in a plastic container, attach lid, shake to separate snails from duckweed, let settle for a minute. The snails sink, the duckweed floats. Put the duckweed back in the aquarium, discard the snails or feed them to a hungry critter. Crunch crunch.


Try water sprite. Mine killed my water sprite. Well.. ate the lower leaves and stems.. they ate through the mother plant. It's floating now. They are actually killing my water sprite. I feed them to my clown loaches in my other tank. They are a NICE crispy treat.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Whoa.

I just saw these snails, which are almost identical in appearance and behavior to MTS. Except for the fact that they grow up to 5.5cm!


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## krazykidd86 (Jul 27, 2005)

I have MTS and ponds snails in the same tank. They both are thriving.  Although comparatively to a tank without MTS, the one with both types of snails has less pond snails than the pond snail only tank.

So its possible for me at least, it slows down reproduction rates of the pon dnails, but they still reproduce anyways.

Oh bother,

the KIDD


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

I had this same experience. I'm fairly certain the pond snails lay eggs as per normal, but the MTS crawl up the side of the tank at night and eat their eggs or something. That, or the MTS have first dibs on food that hits the substrate and it just keeps the amount the pond snails are getting to a minimum.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I have a 10 gallon that I just threw in few MTS and red Ramshorn snails about a month ago. It used to be covered in pond snails. I just looked and couldn't find any. Maybe it does work.


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## suebe333 (Feb 17, 2009)

Very interesting


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## MemphisBob (May 2, 2007)

Could some of you guys add how long you've maintained populations of MTS along with pond snails? My 75 gallon is about 2 years set up and pond snails are on a definate decline as MTS are if anything overpopulating. I've still got some old pond snails around but no babies. I haven't added any new plants or snails in a year or so and will say I definately agree with DarkCobra. I still see a few baby ramshorns around, how do those guys reproduce? These are the little american ramshorn, nothing exotic.


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

I had pond snails in my tanks for 2 or 3 years, and introduced MTS about 8 months ago... As of now, the pond snails are all but gone, and the ramshorns have taken over with a rather large population of MTS as well.


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## Sixwing (Jan 30, 2009)

Add one vote for "no, they haven't killed my pond snails," please. I only got the MTS about two months ago and have never observed them to kill pond snails. I have Physa sp., MTS and one small red ramshorn that hitchhiked on the last batch of plants. All seem healthy and I haven't observed any competition. 
I'd love to get some Clea helena to increase the snail diversity. I enjoy them almost as much as the fish, and when the pond snails start getting annoying, I catch a bunch for a friend's Botia angelica. Problem solved.



> _I'll pay postage and handling for anyone willing to send me quantities of Ramshorns or pond snails (no MTS, too hard for puffers). I can't breed them fast enough for him to eat! I've started a breeding tank for them, but they're just not reproducing fast enough, or at all as far as I can tell._


I'm up for that. Not sure how to arrange postage from your side, but I've got plenty pond snails. What's "quantities?" A small colony? 50? And how many snails a day does a puffer eat, anyway?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I have noticed since seeing more MTS, that there are very few pond snails.


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## Riiz (Apr 30, 2008)

Has anyone ever tried Assassin snails for pond snail control?


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## Sixwing (Jan 30, 2009)

> Has anyone ever tried Assassin snails for pond snail control?


Yes - I haven't personally, but check on the Invertebrate board. Assassin snails have a reputation for going through a pond snail population pretty quickly. 

Went to look for my pond snails last night, to see how many I could catch over a week or so. The work tank still has plenty. At home.. well, I found two in my quarantine - none appeared in the main tank at all.

This was explained this morning when I caught one of the peppered loaches doing a little corkscrew-burrowing-dance headfirst in the gravel. It came up chewing. 

... I think I know what happened to my snails...


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