# 210 Gallon of procrastination (its coming together finally after 2 years)



## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Previous build thread 2 years ago:

Stand: Basic stand with 2x6 as legs and 2x4 as the other pieces, ebony paint





































































This year's build thread:

so its been almost a year since I move back to Atlanta. Time to resurrect the thread. Lost 3 of the fish due to harsh winter because i was only able to put the fish in the garage. Don't ask...sad.
I'm doing the plumbing next week. Trying to make sure the structure will support the tank on the second floor. I will post pics of the structure for you guys' judgement on this. 
I have someone building a new stand since mine was ugly.........
Hopefully I can get this done in about a month.

Tank dimensions is 72X24X29
Lighting: 2- Catalina 36 in light fixture. I went with this for longer bulb length instead of the 72 in and the bulbs are more easier to find. It will be 4 6700k bulbs and 2 10000k bulbs

Substrate: Aquasoil amazonia (does it need cover soil or can I use this by itself). I think 10 bags of 9 liters should cover it?

Filtration: Hard plumb into drain lines and water line. Going to attempt the beanimal sump.

Plants: Not sure yet 

Fish: Mainly the 9 discus out of 12 since I lost 3 due to winter.
Here's one picture of them:









ok, so here are the pictures of the structure beneath the tank. Any concerns? I'm estimating about 2500 lbs.
This tank is going on second floor. Bottom floor is what most of the structure are, then there's the big concrete floor which covers the whole house.


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

If the joists that the wires are running through is the floor that the tank will sit on, you'll need some added support. You'll need to block those joists every 8" or so at the very least. If it were my house, I'd probably add in some support struts to the concrete floor below. Something along the lines of the screwing floor jacks would be the best way. If that's not an option, a couple 4x4 posts could work. You'll want the tank to span as many floor joists as possible going perpendicular to the tank.

*edit* 
After looking over the pictures again, I don't think I would put a tank on that floor in the current condition. Those spots where they cut the joist and added the metal bracing is a huge fail point. There's just no stability there. I bet your floor flexes if you jump on that spot. You would need some serious reinforcement around those cutouts to even consider putting a tank that big on that part of the floor.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

thelub said:


> If the joists that the wires are running through is the floor that the tank will sit on, you'll need some added support. You'll need to block those joists every 8" or so at the very least. If it were my house, I'd probably add in some support struts to the concrete floor below. Something along the lines of the screwing floor jacks would be the best way. If that's not an option, a couple 4x4 posts could work. You'll want the tank to span as many floor joists as possible going perpendicular to the tank.
> 
> *edit*
> After looking over the pictures again, I don't think I would put a tank on that floor in the current condition. Those spots where they cut the joist and added the metal bracing is a huge fail point. There's just no stability there. I bet your floor flexes if you jump on that spot. You would need some serious reinforcement around those cutouts to even consider putting a tank that big on that part of the floor.


Ok, I will buy a bunch of 4x4 and run from floor to the concrete floor for additional support.

edit: You think 8 4x4 running from the plywood ceiling to the concrete wall would be enough?


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm no engineer (structural or otherwise), but I think if you were to evenly space them out around the perimeter of where the tank is sitting you should be good. Just watch very carefully when you are filling the tank for any settling or movement. Maybe hang a plumb line from the joist to the floor and see how much sag you get when filling the tank.

Mate up the 4x4's on the joists, not the floor itself. And also block in the joists, that will tie them all together and help them support eachother.

Here is a good link that might help you even more
http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

thelub said:


> I'm no engineer (structural or otherwise), but I think if you were to evenly space them out around the perimeter of where the tank is sitting you should be good. Just watch very carefully when you are filling the tank for any settling or movement. Maybe hang a plumb line from the joist to the floor and see how much sag you get when filling the tank.
> 
> Mate up the 4x4's on the joists, not the floor itself. And also block in the joists, that will tie them all together and help them support eachother.
> 
> ...


yeah i was going to fill it 1/3 at a time and see what happens.
appreciate it.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Got the drain line ran and two water line ran. Ran into an issue where I'm not sure what method to use to run water into the tank... any ideas?
I was thinking hot and cold line into a Y connector which splits to the spray bar. How do people plumb water line into tank with sump?


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Got the stand painted yesterday. Building doors today.


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## primo (Jul 28, 2013)

Can't wait to see it, reads like this is going be a great setup.


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Instead of 4x4 posts, why not just build a load-bearing wall perpendicular to the joists. Where the joists sit on the concrete foundation you have a huge amount of strength, just need to run a wall directly under the inside edge of the tank. 

That area could then be turned into a fish stuff storage closet or something.

Also note that 4x4s are prone to warping/twisting, and are not meant/necessary for this kind of design. Supporting decks outside, sure. Supporting your house with zero tolerance for movement...not so much. I am sure it would work, but it's the wrong way to do it, and you are asking for issues.

I am not a structural engineer, but there's lots of floor loading info out there. I once had to look into the storage of fireproof filing cabinets on a second storey. Near the outside walls you have a ton of strength.

Consult a structural engineer to be safe. Over time you run the risk of seriously expensive/hassle-some damage if you overload the floor joists.


Beautiful fish! Looking forward to seeing this progress...


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

crazymittens said:


> Instead of 4x4 posts, why not just build a load-bearing wall perpendicular to the joists. Where the joists sit on the concrete foundation you have a huge amount of strength, just need to run a wall directly under the inside edge of the tank.
> 
> That area could then be turned into a fish stuff storage closet or something.
> 
> ...


so I ran 6 2x4 under that floor that span across the tank underneath. The 2x4 was screw to other 2x4s that was nail to concrete on the floor. The top part of the 2x4 was screw onto the roof of the basement. I'll take a picture of it when I get home. The house was cover by 2x10 BTW.


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## Ziggy (Sep 2, 2011)

thelub said:


> Those spots where they cut the joist and added the metal bracing is a huge fail point.


I'm no expert, but that would be a huge concern for me even without the tank. The integrity of those joists has been completely compromised. I wont quote code, but to pass wires through a joist like that there are very specific allowances in terms of hole size etc, none of which include notching it like that.


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

From what I can see, that is not metal bracing. That is what's (IIRC) called nail strips. Prevents you from nailing/screwing into power cabling.

Holes drilled for cabling would have an effect on structure, but I don't think to the level people are thinking. We are not structural engineers, so let's not jump to conclusions.


Andy, if you did what I think you did...that'll work, but doesn't sound like it's to code, so could be an issue when it comes time to sell the house. Pretty sure code would require an actual framed wall. Sounds like you're just missing the bottom plate of a wall...? 

Further, what you did won't prevent twisting of the 2x4s...you need cross-pieces (forget the technical term) between each vertical 2x4.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

crazymittens said:


> From what I can see, that is not metal bracing. That is what's (IIRC) called nail strips. Prevents you from nailing/screwing into power cabling.
> 
> Holes drilled for cabling would have an effect on structure, but I don't think to the level people are thinking. We are not structural engineers, so let's not jump to conclusions.
> 
> ...


Y'all made me paranoid now. When I get home I'll finish the 2x4 stud wall parallel to the the concrete side.


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Don't get me wrong...it'll 'work'...but you have the opportunity to do it right, it won't cost much, and you'll remove some liability on your end.

The term I was thinking of was 'blocking'. Basically 2x4 pieces placed horizontally (staggered up/down) along the middle of the 2x4 stud wall. Eliminates issues relating to 2x4s twisting, adds some lateral stability, etc.

Don't forget to abide by proper bottom plate install procedures on the concrete floor - wood directly on concrete = recipe for failure. Check local code, usually just some thin foam laid in a strip below the plate.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

*220 Gallon of procrastination (its coming together finally after 2 years)*



crazymittens said:


> Don't get me wrong...it'll 'work'...but you have the opportunity to do it right, it won't cost much, and you'll remove some liability on your end.
> 
> The term I was thinking of was 'blocking'. Basically 2x4 pieces placed horizontally (staggered up/down) along the middle of the 2x4 stud wall. Eliminates issues relating to 2x4s twisting, adds some lateral stability, etc.
> 
> Don't forget to abide by proper bottom plate install procedures on the concrete floor - wood directly on concrete = recipe for failure. Check local code, usually just some thin foam laid in a strip below the plate.


Yeah the pieces are like connector.
I didn't see any padding beneath the other 2x4. I'll check again when I get home.
Thanks guys. 
Better to be safe than sorry.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Here is plumbing diagram (to be change)


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Some real quick notes:

 30G is too small, will barely keep up with a power outage. My understanding is sump = 1/3 the size of your display, ideally.
 If your overflow is designed correctly, you only need to make sure your drains can keep up with the pump flow rate. Depending on pump power, I'd for sure do 1.5" drains for a 220.
 Your sump doesn't appear to have any filtration? (maybe not drawn?)
 Look up auto top-off stuff re: refill/drain
 Your drain system only has two drains - for a tank that size, you'll want a full Beananimal drain system (3) - this is, again, dependant on your flow rates, if high, a single 1.5" drain might not be enough.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

crazymittens said:


> Some real quick notes:
> 
> 30G is too small, will barely keep up with a power outage. My understanding is sump = 1/3 the size of your display, ideally.
> If your overflow is designed correctly, you only need to make sure your drains can keep up with the pump flow rate. Depending on pump power, I'd for sure do 1.5" drains for a 220.
> ...


yeah, its going to be full beananimal system, forgot to include all the pipes. I already built the stand, it'll be hard to fit any bigger sump...I can leave the 90G sump in the basement, but the max head is huge, you're talking about 12 ft. Already pre-drill with 1 in bulkheads, but can use 1.5 pvc if that makes a difference. For sump, i was thinking it'll drain down to socks, then run threw eggcrates layer with filter media, etc..., then back to return pump.


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Ya, that sump design sounds fine, although my experience with filter socks is they are pretty high maintenance. There are flow rate calculators for weir/overflow drain size/etc, 1" 'should' be ok, but I'd double-check.

I completely sympathize with fitting the sump inside the stand...but I was easily able to fit a 50G under my 125G tank... Go get a cheap used 50 or something at least...doesn't need to be pretty, just needs to hold water. It's the volume you need.

Dunno, maybe I'm way off, but I'd do my darndest to get something bigger.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

I agree with crazymittens, your sump is too small. You need to account for the change in volume from when the tank is running to when it's not. Estimating 1 inch of rise in the tank with the pump running, plus what's in the plumbing you're going to have at least 8 gallons running in your system, but not in your reservoir at any given time. That's approximately 1848 cubic inches, or a little more than 12"Lx12"Wx12.75"H inches of water. Meaning, if your reservoir section is 12x12 in area you'll have a drop of almost 13 inches just by turning your pump on. If your pump's in the reservoir you're going to have to have at least 1.5" of water over it at all times to keep it from drawing air. That's a lot of water to have to account for at all times. 

If you make your filter section to 12" long (not big enough) that'll leave you with a 24"L x 12"W x 16" H, or 19 gallon MAX volume for a reservoir. Estimate needing to maintain 6" to cover the pump plus another 6.5" to account for water in the system and that leaves you with 3.5", or 4.4 gallons of extra volume. That's hardly anything. Even with an auto top-off you're playing with fire. 

How's the stand designed and why can't you fit anything larger than a 30gal in there?


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Phil Edwards said:


> I agree with crazymittens, your sump is too small. You need to account for the change in volume from when the tank is running to when it's not. Estimating 1 inch of rise in the tank with the pump running, plus what's in the plumbing you're going to have at least 8 gallons running in your system, but not in your reservoir at any given time. That's approximately 1848 cubic inches, or a little more than 12"Lx12"Wx12.75"H inches of water. Meaning, if your reservoir section is 12x12 in area you'll have a drop of almost 13 inches just by turning your pump on. If your pump's in the reservoir you're going to have to have at least 1.5" of water over it at all times to keep it from drawing air. That's a lot of water to have to account for at all times.
> 
> If you make your filter section to 12" long (not big enough) that'll leave you with a 24"L x 12"W x 16" H, or 19 gallon MAX volume for a reservoir. Estimate needing to maintain 6" to cover the pump plus another 6.5" to account for water in the system and that leaves you with 3.5", or 4.4 gallons of extra volume. That's hardly anything. Even with an auto top-off you're playing with fire.
> 
> How's the stand designed and why can't you fit anything larger than a 30gal in there?


i can fit a bigger sump in there, but i originally plan for 30g, I can probably fit up to 60g, the back side is open....but not tall enough for a 90g though.


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Ya, what Phil said. You'll be crippling yourself to have only a 30G sump with that size tank. Heck, I had a 30G sump on my 50G.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

so this is what i have right now. It seems I will be able to fit the 90g sump in the tank stand if I take out one of the support, then I'll screw it back on.

I will finish up and extend the 2x4 on the floor across and build a 2x4 wall from the opposite side of the concrete wall.
@crazymittens, I check under all 2x4 wall studs, there's no filler or anything underneath. They just nail it to concrete.


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## thesawguy (Dec 26, 2011)

I don't get why those 2X4s are touching your subfloor? Any support wall you build should look like this:







Studs 16" on center and a double top plate. I would also recommend sistering those joists even though you will have to notch those for wires too. Then crossbrace them. Simpson strong ties are helpful for that.

Is your tank going to be running parallel to the joists or across many of them? The framing on your house looks really sturdy and new but I think you've got the right idea to reinforce it.

You might still want to have a professional come out and consult or inspect whatever you end up doing. Also consider what else you might ever want to put in that room (or corner of the house) like a sofa bed, piano, 35 jumping and running 9 year olds...


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Oh, just noticed you're in Atlanta...code must be different in your climate. Definitely required here. 

I see ram-set cartridges, so you're on the right track. And yeah, you missed the top plate.

Regarding your stand - you might not need the center support if you can utilize this design: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1169964

You're welcome to read through the thread, but IIRC 2x6 spanning 72" is fine for 125 and 180 gallon tanks - you may need 2x8 for 220. (just the top section)


Definitely do the 90 sump if at all possible!!


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

thanks guy, i'm taking those 2x4 out tomorrow and adding the top plate. Then I'll put the 2x4 stud back on. Are there any extra plates? I see the diagrm with load, then 2x4 , and top plates. are these the same thing?

@mittens, my stand is overbuilt, it'll be fine.


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## thesawguy (Dec 26, 2011)

By extra plates I am guessing you mean 2X4 horizontal cross braces between the studs. Which you could do. You can stagger the heights slightly so you have room to screw through the studs into the ends. 

Also I think sistering the joists (the parts called the load in that picture) will serve you well too. Pull out that insulation in those cavities (you can put it back when you are done) and extend them on to the top of your outer wall top plate (or sill plate). Use the longest boards you can fit up into there. You should do this before you finish your support walls.


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Sistering (doubling-up) the joists is not a bad idea, but probably overkill for this situation. Not to mention would be a royal pain to do properly due to existing wiring/etc.

Also, horizontal cross-braces = blocking, just in case things weren't confusing enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_(construction)

http://www.ehow.com/how_12225739_block-2x4-walls.html


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

crazymittens said:


> Sistering (doubling-up) the joists is not a bad idea, but probably overkill for this situation. Not to mention would be a royal pain to do properly due to existing wiring/etc.
> 
> Also, horizontal cross-braces = blocking, just in case things weren't confusing enough.
> 
> ...



yeah, there's too much wire, i'll just do the load bearing wall, on the way to home depot again...


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## thesawguy (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks for clearing that up mittens. I should have said blocking. 

I'm pretty sure you'll be fine with the two support walls. I'm just into sistering because I've had to do a lot of it around my house which is older than yours.


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Yeah, I've seen sistering mostly used to fix already-sagged floors - you jack up the old floor, sister the joists (adhesive/nails), and bob's your uncle, un-sagged floor.

If anything he could add some more joist blocking around where the tank will be sitting...but since he's on an outside wall already, probably not much gained.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Ok, 3 hours later. 
I nail #4 2x4 top plates against the load. Those are 2x9.

Another #4 2x4 bottom plates on the concrete floor. Don't ask why i couldn't do a long one, it was already done...couldn't yank it up.

Then I place #4 2x4 studs from top plate to bottom plate.

Another few blocks from the concrete studs to the new 2x4 studs.
I'm very sure this can handle my tank.
Note to self:
Finish all framing first before doing plumbing, not the other way around lol.
Off to finish the stand, will report back in a few hours.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Its slowly getting there...


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Got the two doors done. Doing the middle ones tomorrow. That one will be closed.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Got all the doors done. Sanded all the surface. Going to paint tomorrow. I ask for help, but the wife said she already was helping....


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> thanks guy, i'm taking those 2x4 out tomorrow and adding the top plate. Then I'll put the 2x4 stud back on. Are there any extra plates? I see the diagrm with load, then 2x4 , and top plates. are these the same thing?
> 
> @mittens, my stand is overbuilt, it'll be fine.


A double top plate is standard for any frame wall. If this is in a basement with a slab-on-grade if the soils below are good then you might be ok with a single bottom plate. If there is ANY shifting at all, it is better to float the bottom of the wall using 60d nails. It might be worth spending a little to have a structural engineer come out and take a quick look.



(disclaimer: I am an Architectural designer, I work with structural engineers on my buildings every day, but I am not qualified to design any structural systems, a professional should be consulted regarding any structural changes / additions to any building before construction begins)


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

I consulted with a structure engineer at work and he said it look fine.
He recommend a builder to come inspect it.
My brother in law is coming on Sunday to check up on the structure. He have much more experience than I do from building houses.
my expertise is systems/networks. I didn't realize this project was so big. First time doing all this, but I learn a lot. Next time, I might just buy a ready tank/stand...

Got the stand painted. Doing the sump this weekend. If it goes well, we might get the tank on top of the stand this weekend.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Price were just drop on aquasoil, order 12 bags. Man that's some expensive dirt.


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## Sajacobs (Aug 24, 2012)

It looks like your wife was painting.....just not the stand

Impressive. I give you a lot of credit for not getting frustrated with all the work. Keep posting.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Sajacobs said:


> It looks like your wife was painting.....just not the stand
> 
> Impressive. I give you a lot of credit for not getting frustrated with all the work. Keep posting.


man, i did all the work myself, and its my first DIY at everything. So it was a lot of learning and screw ups as well. Next build will be much better, but a long time from now.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Everything looks really good so far. Very smart of you to take your time and do it right. Looking forward to seeing this progress. Keep posting updates. 

And really did you expect your wife to help?...... They have girlie things to do. You think looking good is easy?


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

ua hua said:


> Everything looks really good so far. Very smart of you to take your time and do it right. Looking forward to seeing this progress. Keep posting updates.
> 
> And really did you expect your wife to help?...... They have girlie things to do. You think looking good is easy?


you got that right. lol


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

just got confirmation from jeff at adg. Awesome guy btw.
216 pounds of pure amazonia is coming this wednesday. Wife is definitely going to roll her eyes. @@

Had to trick a few buddies to come yesterday and lift tank on stand so I can test plumbing. Getting the sump this Friday.

btw anyone know how to edit the title of thread?


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## Chronados (Jan 28, 2013)

Nice build so far!



andyl9063 said:


> btw anyone know how to edit the title of thread?


Hit Edit, then Go Advanced. Took me a few weeks to figure that one out :hihi:


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

i brought over some stuff from the first build thread that I couldn't find until I made this thread..
notice same stand, but much better looking ?


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## newday3000 (Nov 4, 2009)

I've put a 220 g on the 2nd floor. It ran across 5 joists that sat on steel I beam in the middle of the house. I then added in the basement 2 * 6 nailed together with a jack post and steal plate under the 2*6's at front edge of the tank. Jack post was $80 and was rated for a house at 8000 lbs of load. It's the same idea as your supporting wall but stronger and way cheaper. Took me an hour to install 

I could jump In front of the filled tank and water would not move and tank would not sway when walking traffic from anyone passed the tank.

The idea came from my brother (mechanical engineer )


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

newday3000 said:


> I've put a 220 g on the 2nd floor. It ran across 5 joists that sat on steel I beam in the middle of the house. I then added in the basement 2 * 6 nailed together with a jack post and steal plate under the 2*6's at front edge of the tank. Jack post was $80 and was rated for a house at 8000 lbs of load. It's the same idea as your supporting wall but stronger and way cheaper. Took me an hour to install
> 
> I could jump In front of the filled tank and water would not move and tank would not sway when walking traffic from anyone passed the tank.
> 
> The idea came from my brother (mechanical engineer )


yeah my brother in law came and we just double up on the 2x4 and its now 4x4 for the wall. Added additional top loads and other stuff. He didn't like the sharkbite pipe connectors, took it all out and solder it.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

i got tank on stand.


This is front of tank:


This is back of tank:


Should i be worry about the levelness?


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## sick lid (Jan 13, 2008)

I'd put the level inside the tank on the bottom glass. You can't always count on the top rim being fully seated.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

sick lid said:


> I'd put the level inside the tank on the bottom glass. You can't always count on the top rim being fully seated.


i put the level in the tank and it look just like the picture when the levels' on the back of the tank (second picture)
couldn't take a picture since its going through glass and blurry.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

got the canopy done and painted.


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## thesawguy (Dec 26, 2011)

Can you post pictures of your final floor reinforcement for those of us who like that kind of thing?


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

thesawguy said:


> Can you post pictures of your final floor reinforcement for those of us who like that kind of thing?


ask and you shall receive:
double up on the post and he just add an extra 2x4 to that post.




he added additional support under the support frame I previously added.


he added another 2x4 on bottom of that to provide additional support to the 2x9, all the frames directly below the floor.





did i mention painting sucks and is tedious?


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

debating if I should drill another hole for the drainage siphon.

Here's my plan, drill a 1'' pvc bulkhead in middle of tank, it'll siphon water down to drainage in basement (via the 1'' pvc drain pipe I ran up to living room), it'll stop at 50% water change every time because once it get past that level, it'll stop the siphon because of air.

My other plan is what I really want:
I'm trying not to drill, and make a gravity feed siphon out of 1'' pvc and HOB of tank similar to this: http://jehmco.com/html/safety_siphon_aquarium_drain.html

Once its done draining, close valve so water fills drainage again when I refill with fresh water. time to change water, open valve, drains 50% again. Anyone see any issues why this wouldn't work?


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

guess what just arrive. 216 LBS. Man its heavy.


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## byork (Sep 28, 2012)

This is the first time that I have read this thread and I may have missed something very important. 

Basically, my understanding of your project is that you plan to put a 210 gallon aquarium perpendicular across the joists at the compromised location. However, where your joists have been compromised a shear force is acting which will cause a deflection (displacement) of the beam which will increase with load and over time. It appears that at least 3 of these joists have been compromised. Each of these compromised locations appears to be inline with the next which compounds the problem. Suring each side of the joists will help reduce the shear force at that location but it is not going to ensure that your floor remains level. Having 2100 lbs of force distributed over a 6' x 2' area of which (from the pics it appears) 3 of the joists have shear weakness is asking for structural problems in the future. Particularly if you plan to maintain a hard floor surface like tile or hardwood. Not to mention if you ever want to sell and move. Ultimately you need to repair this area by creating a fixed joint. Additionally, when you place structural beams the beam is strongest when placed in a position in which the (ex. L x W x H, 12' x 2" x 4") H is perpendicular to the body that you wish to support. The strength of the board is only approximately 1/6th of the strength when placed in the other direction. 

I am sure that the structural engineering students at Georgia Tech could assist you in a developing a more appropriate and permanent fix. Dr. Goodno teaches numerous mechanics of materials, statics, wood and timber, and other structural engineering classes. He is a very nice gentleman and his students are always looking for opportunities for extra credit and/or real world experience. He would be a good resource. He has also written several books on the subject. 

I am not a professional engineer (PE). I did earn a bachelors degree from the school of civil and environmental engineering.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

byork said:


> This is the first time that I have read this thread and I may have missed something very important.
> 
> Basically, my understanding of your project is that you plan to put a 210 gallon aquarium perpendicular across the joists at the compromised location. However, where your joists have been compromised a shear force is acting which will cause a deflection (displacement) of the beam which will increase with load and over time. It appears that at least 3 of these joists have been compromised. Each of these compromised locations appears to be inline with the next which compounds the problem. Suring each side of the joists will help reduce the shear force at that location but it is not going to ensure that your floor remains level. Having 2100 lbs of force distributed over a 6' x 2' area of which (from the pics it appears) 3 of the joists have shear weakness is asking for structural problems in the future. Particularly if you plan to maintain a hard floor surface like tile or hardwood. Not to mention if you ever want to sell and move. Ultimately you need to repair this area by creating a fixed joint. Additionally, when you place structural beams the beam is strongest when placed in a position in which the (ex. L x W x H, 12' x 2" x 4") H is perpendicular to the body that you wish to support. The strength of the board is only approximately 1/6th of the strength when placed in the other direction.
> 
> ...


did you see my later posts? We added more support to the joists and 2x4 frames. I don't think its going to be a problem now.


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## byork (Sep 28, 2012)

I hope not. Good luck.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

byork said:


> I hope not. Good luck.


cool to see someone from Atlanta as well.
Go Falcons!!!!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Are you two members of the Atlanta Area Aquarium Association? If not, you should look them up. They're a great crowd of people and last I knew had a sizable group of plant hobbyists.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Phil Edwards said:


> Are you two members of the Atlanta Area Aquarium Association? If not, you should look them up. They're a great crowd of people and last I knew had a sizable group of plant hobbyists.


yeah, im on there, going to the October auction.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Awesome! Please give the folks there my regards. I used to be an active member before I moved.


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## canlax (Sep 8, 2012)

Subscribed - I have a 210 gallon on my first floor as well so had to shore in the basement with jack posts. It has been full since January 2013 with no issue to date. I measure for deflection periodically.

Looking forward to seeing it set up!


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

canlax said:


> Subscribed - I have a 210 gallon on my first floor as well so had to shore in the basement with jack posts. It has been full since January 2013 with no issue to date. I measure for deflection periodically.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing it set up!


awesome tank man. similar tank size. mine is in the living room just like yours.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

aight boys.
We got the tank in place. Took 5 people to move into place. The stand turn out pretty decent for a first time cabinetry build. It could have been better, but the experience has been gained 


Here's the seating area


Manage to find to a 55g last minute for sump.
Barely fit under the stand:


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## thesawguy (Dec 26, 2011)

Your custom stand looks good in there.

Something like this might be in order for the door. I've never used these but I guess you just slide the hinge pin through it.









Nice tile.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

thesawguy said:


> Your custom stand looks good in there.
> 
> Something like this might be in order for the door. I've never used these but I guess you just slide the hinge pin through it.
> 
> ...


yeah, i need A HUGE door stopper. Don't want anything to slap into that tank, even though the door will hit the cabinet first. Didn't want to put all way towards the door frame because 
I need some room to do plumbing.
Also, the whole floor is marble. Not sure if we'll have any problems with the weight. I'm not sure on weight limit on marble.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> yeah, i need A HUGE door stopper. Don't want anything to slap into that tank, even though the door will hit the cabinet first. Didn't want to put all way towards the door frame because
> I need some room to do plumbing.
> Also, the whole floor is marble. Not sure if we'll have any problems with the weight. I'm not sure on weight limit on marble.


That would make me nervous as can be with that door that close to the tank. Of course I have 2 little kids that come in and out but I would hate to see the door get flung open and smash your tank. I would almost look into getting a door that swings open the other way.


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## Seedreemer (Sep 28, 2008)

I love the white stand. It looks great. I'm currently wrapping up painting the stand/canopy white (cream really) on my 150. White/light supports look so rich and awesome IMO. Subscribed.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

Gentlemen, this is why you don't procrastinate a project: 
Painted the tank trimmings like two year ago, left the paint tape on and all the tape's glue is now stuck on the tank. Trying the tape on tape method to see if it'll pull all the glue out with new tape, if not, razor blade time.


Such newbie/unskill craftsmanship: the canopy is short on the two sides LOL. Good thing, its in the back and you can't see it.


Full tank shot with canopy mount:


Also, got a plumbing dilemma, need some help from the experts.
Anyone ever plumb hot+ cold water together and the outlet is Y connector?
I want to be able to adjust cold and hot, but have them come out at the same connector.


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## sarahspins (Sep 24, 2012)

andyl9063 said:


> Also, got a plumbing dilemma, need some help from the experts.
> Anyone ever plumb hot+ cold water together and the outlet is Y connector?
> I want to be able to adjust cold and hot, but have them come out at the same connector.


That's called a faucet


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

sarahspins said:


> That's called a faucet


lol, that would be it. so simple hahahah.
But I thought there was something different since I'm connecting it to a float valve so faucet is out of the question. 

Got the door stopper installed. That was very important :red_mouth


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

after spending another hour at HD.
I found this: 
Sharkbite close valve straight to 1/2 copper line. 1/2 Coupling with compression for tube line. Tube line are 1/2


1/2 T connector for hot/cold line. The middle will be reserve for fill/float valve. Couldn't find one at HD, will try lowes.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

This is going to be a great setup, it looking good. I will be setting up a 180 or 220, worried with it being 72x24x30 it going to be to high. Are you worried about that for yours?


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

FishStix said:


> This is going to be a great setup, it looking good. I will be setting up a 180 or 220, worried with it being 72x24x30 it going to be to high. Are you worried about that for yours?


well my stand was 30 inches to begin with. Then 30 for height of tank, along with canopy. But from the picture, it doesn't look so big. I have high ceilings so its a plus. 

Man, true union ball valves are not cheap....
Just order heaters, pond matrix, filter socks, and bulkheads.
Need to finish the plumbing once those arrive.
Now i'm on the hunt for driftwood.


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## mot (Sep 17, 2011)

Looking at the sump, i was concerned that you wont have enough room to work in it? Would hate to see this awesome tank get derailed!


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

need some plumbing help. I'm setting up the drain. This is only to drain water out of the tank and down into drain line. It's not going into sump or anything.

I have already setup the tank and not wanting to have to drill a hole again. Anyone know of any simple setup to drain the tank? I want to be able to cut off the siphon with ball valve and restart it with ball valve. Is this even possible?


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

i got tired of trying to set something up instead of drilling.

I went ahead and drill drain hole in tank. Just got done, wife thought it was funny to upload this photo to fb.
Her caption: I put Andy in timeout....


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

Any updates on your tank? The stand looks great.

I am working on having a 265 built, just waiting for the builder to let me know what the lead time is. Do you find it a problem with the the tank being 29H? Mine will be about the same, 84x24x29, trying to decide if 29 going to be to high, as stand going to be around 34 to fit my 75 gallon sump.

Thanks


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

FishStix said:


> Any updates on your tank? The stand looks great.
> 
> I am working on having a 265 built, just waiting for the builder to let me know what the lead time is. Do you find it a problem with the the tank being 29H? Mine will be about the same, 84x24x29, trying to decide if 29 going to be to high, as stand going to be around 34 to fit my 75 gallon sump.
> 
> Thanks


yeah, i kinda got lazy on the updates. Here's a picture of it right now:
I'm trying to wait for the plants to grow out.
It can be very tall, as you can see, I have a step ladder there each time I need to do anything which can be a hassle, but its not too bad. If your arms are short like mine, reaching into a 29 can suck......if i were to do it again, I probably go with a lower tank like maybe a 20 or 21".


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

andyl9063 said:


> yeah, i kinda got lazy on the updates. Here's a picture of it right now:
> I'm trying to wait for the plants to grow out.
> It can be very tall, as you can see, I have a step ladder there each time I need to do anything which can be a hassle, but its not too bad. If your arms are short like mine, reaching into a 29 can suck......if i were to do it again, I probably go with a lower tank like maybe a 20 or 21".


 
Wow that looks great, but wow it tall. I think I need to re-consider going with 24 rather than 29.

Do you like the Apex system? I plan to get one as well.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

FishStix said:


> Wow that looks great, but wow it tall. I think I need to re-consider going with 24 rather than 29.
> 
> Do you like the Apex system? I plan to get one as well.


its one of those things, once you get it, you realized, why didn't i get this sooner and with all of my tanks.....
it's awesome.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

andyl9063 said:


> its one of those things, once you get it, you realized, why didn't i get this sooner and with all of my tanks.....
> it's awesome.


That good to know, it a lot of money, but I travel a lot so it nice to be able to keep eye on the tank while I am away.

In regards to the beananimal. The problem I have, is the area to place the tank is 25 1/2 inches, so if the stand has to move away from the wall anymore than 25 1/2 inches then I don't think I would have room for the PVC behind the tank for beananimal? Or am I missing something? I guess I could have the tank made a bit smaller so I would have room.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

FishStix said:


> That good to know, it a lot of money, but I travel a lot so it nice to be able to keep eye on the tank while I am away.
> 
> In regards to the beananimal. The problem I have, is the area to place the tank is 25 1/2 inches, so if the stand has to move away from the wall anymore than 25 1/2 inches then I don't think I would have room for the PVC behind the tank for beananimal? Or am I missing something? I guess I could have the tank made a bit smaller so I would have room.


yeah, its a convenience factor. You can scout craiglist, reef forums normally have it for less than retail, used of course. I got mine new on ebay for $350.

when you said 25 inches, you mean from the wall? You could either scoot the stand up towards you more or make the stand smaller? Or you can drill on the bottom of tank towards the back of tank and pull overflow box there, it'll then be plumb straight down into sump, but that should be your last option.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

andyl9063 said:


> yeah, its a convenience factor. You can scout craiglist, reef forums normally have it for less than retail, used of course. I got mine new on ebay for $350.
> 
> when you said 25 inches, you mean from the wall? You could either scoot the stand up towards you more or make the stand smaller? Or you can drill on the bottom of tank towards the back of tank and pull overflow box there, it'll then be plumb straight down into sump, but that should be your last option.


The area in my house that I plan to put the tank the depth is 25 1/2. The tank would be 24, and I think from what the builder of the stand said it would be around 25 for the stand, only leaving 1/2 for plumbing, that why I did not think the beananimal would work, as it would push tank out away from the wall and then going over the 25 1/2 area I have to work with. What size PVC did you use? Maybe I could just have them make the tank and stand 1/2 smaller and it would work for me.


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

FishStix said:


> The area in my house that I plan to put the tank the depth is 25 1/2. The tank would be 24, and I think from what the builder of the stand said it would be around 25 for the stand, only leaving 1/2 for plumbing, that why I did not think the beananimal would work, as it would push tank out away from the wall and then going over the 25 1/2 area I have to work with. What size PVC did you use? Maybe I could just have them make the tank and stand 1/2 smaller and it would work for me.


it depends on how wide your tank is? your stand has to cover the width, otherwise, you'll have structural issues. You'll probably be fine, but just to be safe.
the pvc was 1.5 inches thick. Yeah, that would be a tight fit. 
Are you going to get the builder to help with the beananimal overflow? Since you're not doing any of the plumbing...you should probably get them involve and tell them the space constraints.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

andyl9063 said:


> it depends on how wide your tank is? your stand has to cover the width, otherwise, you'll have structural issues. You'll probably be fine, but just to be safe.
> the pvc was 1.5 inches thick. Yeah, that would be a tight fit.
> Are you going to get the builder to help with the beananimal overflow? Since you're not doing any of the plumbing...you should probably get them involve and tell them the space constraints.


The tank is going to be 84x24x29, well maybe 24 now after looking at yours.

The company I am dealing with does mostly reef tanks, and yes he plans to setup the beananimal for me, or herbie whatever I decide to go with.

Thanks for you advise, sorry to ask so many questions, but it a big investment, don't want to get it wrong. :icon_smil


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

FishStix said:


> The tank is going to be 84x24x29, well maybe 24 now after looking at yours.
> 
> The company I am dealing with does mostly reef tanks, and yes he plans to setup the beananimal for me, or herbie whatever I decide to go with.
> 
> Thanks for you advise, sorry to ask so many questions, but it a big investment, don't want to get it wrong. :icon_smil


yeah, no problem. that will be a nice tank, I would love a longer tank, but maybe next tank lol.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

I have another question about your tank if you don't mind since your running bean animal. Since my tank would have to stick out from the wall an extra 3 inches if I go with bean animal, I don't think that going to work for me. 

How far away from the wall does your tank have to be from the wall because of the plumbing?

I was thinking I would go with internal bean animal, that would save a bit of room, also was suggested I could go with full size overflow box for bean animal and have it in the center of the tank and just have the plumbing go to the bottom of the tank rather than back. Would that work? Worried I would not have enough flow this way since overflow would not take up the entire back of the tank.

Thanks


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## andyl9063 (Oct 22, 2010)

FishStix said:


> I have another question about your tank if you don't mind since your running bean animal. Since my tank would have to stick out from the wall an extra 3 inches if I go with bean animal, I don't think that going to work for me.
> 
> How far away from the wall does your tank have to be from the wall because of the plumbing?
> 
> ...


I suggest you look at this link:
http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

I'm not sure how well it'll work going that away. Mine is about 6 inches from the wall, it varies depending on your setup.


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