# Lo Tec 10g step-by-step: as told with a ton of crappy pictures and failed logic



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

About 3 weeks ago I came across a frame-less no-brand 10g at LFS. At $50, my self-control was nowhere to be found - I got the tank. It will replace my neglected 4g.

The specs:
*Tank*: rimless 10g glass tank with curved front corners (17.5" x 11.25" x 12")
*Filter*: seeded Finnex PX-360
*Light*: 2 x EcoSmart 19w CFL
*Substrate*: ~3l of ADA Amazonia "Milti"
*Heater*: Tetra 100w pre-set (78F)

The scaping idea was to get away from my usual jungles and do something simple, cheap, and low tech (no co2). Namely: 3 rocks in the center with taller plants fanning out, no driftwood, with the rest of the tank open with some low ground cover.

The stones were generously donated by a TPT friend, *talontsiawd*, who loaded me with at least 200lb on my last visit to his house. His gift is much appreciated and really helped me to make my idea a reality. Thank you, friend!

I was also lucky with the flora side of the scape as I usually have a ton of plants hidden in various containers around the house. My personal challenge was to keep true to my goal of non-over-planted tank and to resist the urge to 'save' the plants by dumping them into the new real estate.

The idea in action (with the usual self-portrait):










As far as my idea goes, all of my personal goals are now met.

The genius at work (do cover that expensive chair):










The inventive shot, from above:










Just to waste some more time, a shot from some side:










Remembering that "aquatic" has some remote relationship to the project:










Ready for fish:










The whole mess, better visible with the addition of the Finnex light:










Gotta warm that coffee up:










Add a filter to de-caff the ADA's evil brew:










Plants from secret place A:










Add some spice:










Plants from secret place B:










And from one more:










Oh, don't forget this one:










And this one:










Dump and stir:










The back view:










The last business of the night was to move the existing fauna from the de-commissioned 4: 5 Black Molly fry and a motley assortment of snails were moved in:










That's AM and mission accomplished:










I left the tank alone for a week and started musing on my favorite sabject: lights.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*The light delema*

I was not that happy with the Finnex 26W clip-on light: it was not bright enough for me, covered only ~ 1/2 of the tank and was too close to the surface.

Going back and forth between different options and my PayPal balance, I finally settled on using ZooMed adjustable light stand and ZooMed mini double deep dome light fixture loaded with 2 75W EcoSmart CLF bulbs from HomeDepot. After taking advantage of sales at PetSmart and Amazon, my total hit was just under $50.

Currently, one bulb is on for 10 hours and the second one is on for ~6 hours per day. Since day one, dosing consists of 10ml Excel and my EI dosing on alternative days.


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

I really like this, from the rocks to the plants. Not sure how it's not headed toward "your usual jungle setup", but who cares. It looks great!


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## Chulios66 (Jan 3, 2013)

How did you get so many plants, I mean WOW!!! Nice setup btw


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Fauna*

Even though I like plants, I do like something moving among them. The 5 existing Black Molly fry and the snails did not satisfy my desire for more fins. That started my predictable search for the additional occupants.

Over the following 2 weeks I jerked around many people and single-handedly propelled the hit count on anything fishy to the new heights on Google. Given that I only had 10g to play with, I concentrated on 'nano' fish: CPD, badis, ember tetras, rasboras of different stripes and colors, Microdevario kubotai, and even glow light tetras were on my list.

Predictably, I ended up with something different: C. pygmaeus and Sparkling Gourami﻿. Even this effort did no go without snafus. The first shipment of fish arrived with some DOAs (for which I was given prompt, no questions asked credit). The subsequent order was screwed up by me as I went long on the previous DOAs and the seller run out of corys.

*First Fish Order* (recieved 2 weeks ago):
13 C. pygmaeus (including 1 'extra')
2 Sparkling Gourami (+4 DOA)

After 15 mins of acclimation, all fish promptly went into the tank.

Even if you know that the fish is tiny, you are still unprepared to how tiny. Very tiny indeed. Hard to believe that you can 'loose' 15 fish in a 10g.

After watching the fish for about a week I decided that more is better and that I'm missing that all-elusive 'center fish'. That lead me on another chaise that was not without it's own set of issues. 

The sale at PetSmart was my downfall: against my better judgement and experience I decided that saving a $1 per fish was too hard to resist. I was going to get 4 German Blue Rams but after examining the PetSmart's stock I took home just 1 pair as they did not have another male to my liking. Back I went the next day (when they receive new fish) and home I went with 1 more.

Why 1 M + 1 F were not good enough for me? First off, the rams are max 1", even when wet. Second, my experience with a single pair of cichlids or with 1 M + 2 F are not that great: either the pair does not like each other and fight for the rest of their lives or one F kills the rival F. Blah... So, the common wisdom is to get around 6 juvies and let them sort things out. Right, it's all logical but no one told that to the rams.

Initially, my 1 M + 2 F decided to make the other 1 M's life difficult. Like chasing him around and pushing him in the side. Once that game got stale, 1 M + 1 F decided that there will be more romance in their future. Now the previously persecuted M is left alone, but one F is chasing the other F. Reminds me of the HS. The only good news here is that if the current state of likes/dislikes holds, the 10g will be left to the lover birds and the other M+F will get moved to another tank. IF I can catch them... and if I do ... the right ones.

*The Subsequent Fish Order* (received today):
7 C. pygmaeus (ordered 12 but the seller run out)
4 Sparkling Gourami

All alive. The 7 corys promptly went into the tank and do what corys do the first 1/2 hour: swimming all over the place 

Now, everything is well but do I really want/can have 6 Gourami in a 10g? Scratch head here, scratch head there. Damn if you, do damn if you don't. My mistake - gotta find a solution. After some fuzzy soul searching and self-lynching I add 1 new Gourami to the 10g and (gasp) add the other 3 to my 17g.

What's wrong with that brilliant solution? The new Gourami is being chased by the other 2. Crossing my fingers that they will work things out, helpd out by me moving some plants around. Gotta watch that now and hope for no dead bodies.

The 17g for the other 3 new Gourami was a panic-driven compromise. It's a great, established, over-planted and under-stocked tank:










It houses 12 ottos and 2 and a half Black Mollies. BUT it is also home to 4 Dwarf Puffers... Oh my. Did I just fed some young, innocent fish to them? It's not even the $$. It's that feeling of dread when your stupid actions are likely to result in something bad and irreversible. 15 mins after my 'dinner served' action I brave a peek into the 17g: one Sparkling Grourami is calmly swimming right between 2 DPs that are an inch apart. Um, I have no idea what is going through the DPs murderous brains... They have been leaving Black Molly fry alone for the last couple of months but this!?! Another tank that needs close watching and some prayers.

As they say: "The worst enemy of Good, is Better".


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

bluestems said:


> I really like this, from the rocks to the plants. Not sure how it's not headed toward "your usual jungle setup", but who cares. It looks great!


Thank you, all. And that's soo true. So true it hurts. I swear, 'empty tank' was the goal. Still is. Wish me well, I just might overcome my plant addiction.

But then, I do have an excuse, to be explained in a bit. An excuse I just might be able to hide behind. Maybe.


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

Nice tanks! You are cracking me up here. The Petsmart ram sale got me too. F+F doesn't work either, long story lol.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Dwarf Puffers with Sparkling Gouramis*

I have to admit that I am scared to take a closer look at the tank. Not looking insed of the tank is a hard taks as the tank is strategically located. It is right in the middle of my most often-traveled routes: between my office and the kitchen and the office and the nearest bathroom. Maybe if I just give up on the fridge I could avoid the bathroom. But that goal is not achivable in my lifetime.

Anyways, I see 3 fat puffers. I see no 3 gouramis. Today the puffers have been feed every hour or so with handfulls of snails (I have a separate bucket for snails). Maybe they will associate the arrival of gouramies with unlimited supply of live food.

Maybe they will even start worshiping the gouramies as "Snail Gods" and co-exist peacefully in their bloated state. I can only dream.

Meanwhile, I'm going to take the dog for a really long walk to avoid my usual route and hope for the best on the return home.

The 60-P, view form the back. Can you see a puffer? I certainly don't see a single gouramie


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Flora*

I am a hoarder when it comes to plants. I just cannot bring myself to throw healthy plants away. All 3 LFSs in the area quickly learnt to slam the front doors in my face. The current For Sale/Trade is hit and miss and I also get too easily annoyed with people who PM "are the plants still available?" and never reply back. Or reply back with a bunch of questions, for a week, and then just disappear. A simple "Thank you, but now is not a good time" is perfectly acceptable. Not getting back to me at all is not. Therefore, my "Ignore list" and my collection of buckets is growing.

*Current Flora*:
Blyxa Japonica
HM (just because I had some)
Brazilian Pennywort
Vesuvius
Rotala 'Bangladesh'
Rotala roundifolia (a couple of stems I had no other place for)
Clinopodium Brownei
Ludwigia repens x arcuata (3 small cuttings I could not bring myself to toss)
Red Tiger Lotus (from the old 4g)
Banana Plant (from the old 4g)
Water Sprite (hey, why not?)
Limnophila sessiliflora
Sagittaria (was laying around)
Hygrophila corymbosa/'Siamensis'/'Kompakt' (need to grow them out)

Did I miss anything? LOL

Call it a blessing or a curse, but when I have 'kitchen sink" RAOKs, or give Nesaea Red to other people to try, or can ship enough plants to fully plant anything from 5g to 240g, I certainly have enough plants for my new tank. Every time I try to thin out my 65g I end up with something like this:










I am telling you, it's a disease. No wonder I have 5 more tanks overflowing with plants. That was one reason why I wanted to keep this 10g simple and low-tech. I will fail, unless you help out ...


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## hisxlency (Jan 26, 2013)

the tank looks great. If you ever ROAK that plethora/pile o' plants let me know. My little 20L pales in comparison!


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Flora - lame excuses for an over-planted tank*

I really like the Iwagumi (sic?) look - open, bright, and calming. Some stones, some ground cover, a small shoal of fish and, BOOM! - a finished tank. And that's exactly what I had in mind for this 10g (and for the 17g, and for the 40B before that.., and for the 24x24x12 I cannot find).

Once you fail to reach your own goal, what is the next step? Exactly! Start blaming everything and everyone for your personal shortcomings. As they say in the business world after a project bites the dust: fire the uninvolved, punish the innocent, and promote the guilty. In that spirit, here is my list of excuses for an over-planted tank:

*Excuse 1*: New Tank: we all know that the best way to avoid future issues is to over-plant the tank from the get go. This also happens to be the only advise of many that I give that I actually follow.

*Excuse 2*: Tank Looks Empty: this one reminds me of the "pickle jar effect". When we buy a jar of pickles we expect the jar to be full. Full means that the pickles are stuffed end to end, side to side, top to bottom - if you shake the jar, the pickles are not supposed to move. If they do, you get another jar. The full jar certainly looks worth our money. A jar with pickles moving around like s**t is disgusting. To me, a fully planted tank is a tank that you cannot see behind the first row of plants touching the front glass. And the back glass, and the side glass. If it still looks empty, then there are always floating plants. If you see the fish moving around, the tank is only half-planted. Enough said.

*Excuse 3*: Fish Needs It: that's an excuse that make you feel good. I did a diligent search on the requirements of the fish I was going to keep in this tank. Statements like "requires a densely planted tank", "requires the cover of the floating plants", "aggression cut down by the broken line of sight, best accomplished by plants", etc etc etc bring joy to my heart. (Statements that fish cares less if the plants are real of fake get overlooked, dismissed, and laughed at).

*Excuse 4*: Natural Filter: The plants act as the natural filter. The plants will suck up all of the unwanted, dangerous, algae-promoting chemicals. A tank full of healthy plants is the best algae prevention. A planted tank is a healthy tank. True or false, I want to *pay* people for more comments like that.

*Excuse 5*: I Got Plants: this excuse is right up my alley. It is inhumane to put the extra plants through the blender. It's illegal to dump extra plants into your local water supply (use the water supply in the next county). Rotting plants gross out your SO. Too many plants (WHOA!) kill the other plants in your tank. SnS sucks. Hey, that plant is looking red and healthy. This is a perfect excuse to hoard more plants. This is a pefect excuse that drives 97% of the new tank sales in the US and Canada.

*Excuse 6*: Equipment: I personally do not like seeing heaters, in/out flows, diffusers, pumps, etc in tanks. It just discracts me from the 'natural' illusion. A bunch of corys sitting on top of the heater makes for a cute pictures, but still rubs me the wrong way. Even if I use everything in-line, I have no idea how to drill a tank to hide the filter pipes. I use stem plants to hide them. More excuses for more plants.

*Excuse 7*: Bad Karma: I'm sort of running out of excuses here, but I'm sure that given enough time and inventiveness I'll get to Excuse 73. If you have never had an addiction, you just cannot identify with me. We just speak different languages and we have 0 connection. The plant addiction should be finally recognized by CDC, should not be grounds for discrimination, and should be covered by your health insurance.

This tank of mine NEEDS MORE PLANTS:


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## Nolan (Feb 12, 2013)

Awesome!

I like the wild underwater jungle look more than the clean and serene scapes myself.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*First WC and plant clean-up*

The tank is now over 3 weeks old and it's time for the first WC. I take the opportunity to weed out some of the plants in order to get to me original vision. The L. sessiliflora gets the first haircut and is moved all the way to the back to partially hide the filter pipes and the heater. One medium water sprite, one Vesuvius, most of R. roundifolia and Sag get the boot.

Full front:










Top front:










The back:










The prisoners:


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Glad you found a use for my rocks. Even though it was quite a bit of rocks, I think you got about $8 worth lol. Pretty sure I got the better end of the deal.

Suggestion for the foreground...blyxa japonica can get pretty big, even in a low tech tank. The little bit you gave me is actually taking over my little 6 gallon and is about 4-5 in tall. I have found that Echinodorus tenellus is a good low tech plant but can grow tall as well. It's easier to maintain though. When you trim, it grows small at first and only gets tall over time. Belem is another option but will take a long time to fill in if you don't start with a lot. Very well suited to low tech though, no color change or growth habit changes, just slower growth. I have a small amount of each if you don't already have some, like a tiny bit but you can throw it in your other tanks to grow out, if you are interested and have a bunch of patience. Looks good regardless.

Glad you decided to try a low tech tank. You know that low tech nano's are right up my ally. I really suggest that you throw in some of your red plants that most would swear are not for non co2 enriched tanks. Some may not do as well as others but you will be surprised by a few. I know you have like every red plant so if you want to experiment, it's interesting. You may not get reds as vibrant as you would in your other tanks but you may get some results that surprise you, assuming you find the right balance.


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## I3raven (Jan 30, 2013)

OVT said:


> I was not that happy with the Finnex 26W clip-on light: it was not bright enough for me, covered only ~ 1/2 of the tank and was too close to the surface.
> 
> Going back and forth between different options and my PayPal balance, I finally settled on using ZooMed adjustable light stand and ZooMed mini double deep dome light fixture loaded with 2 75W EcoSmart CLF bulbs from HomeDepot. After taking advantage of sales at PetSmart and Amazon, my total hit was just under $50.
> 
> Currently, one bulb is on for 10 hours and the second one is on for ~6 hours per day. Since day one, dosing consists of 10ml Excel and my EI dosing on alternative days.


If 26watts for a 10 gallon isn't enough, how many watts would you recommend for a 15 gallon? I'm planning to start a 17 gallon planted tank and I'm trying to find enough light for HC growth, but minimal algae growth.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Frameless 10g on a budget: as told with a ton of crappy pictures*



I3raven said:


> If 26watts for a 10 gallon isn't enough, how many watts would you recommend for a 15 gallon? I'm planning to start a 17 gallon planted tank and I'm trying to find enough light for HC growth, but minimal algae growth.


Well, it was not enough for me, diff things for diff people. You might want to give my setup a try as it gives you a choice of different bulb combinations in diff wattage on the cheap, you can run 1 or 2 bulbs and you can easily adjust the height over the tank. Lots of flexibility to find your own sweet spot


via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## mikeh7172 (Feb 22, 2013)

I'll try and not be the guy that inquires and dumps. I see your pile o' plants and was wondering what you think would be good for my 10g with one small sword plant. I'm just a hobbyist with serpaes, neons and corys. Unfortunately my betta and 3 neons committed suicide into the filter and I believe it was because of the generic plastic crap i have in there. What is the survivability rate of your plants through the mail, or better yet how close to Chicago are you?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Frameless 10g on a budget: as told with a ton of crappy pictures*

The best way to get plant recommendations would be to post a picture of your tank with specs (substrate, light, dosing, etc) in the general section of the forum.

I'm 3-4 USPS days away from Chicago, in CA.

Shipping plants, imho, is a trust-based deal. The buyer does not know if the plants were already junk even before they went into a bag. The seller has no idea if the plants spent 7 hours sitting on top of the mailbox in 10F weather. Then there is the USPS. Some of my buyers got dead plants from me and I have gotten some marginal ones from others. Things happen. It is how the parties resolve it is what counts in the end.

Most of us on TPT are hobbyist like you and I. We care more about the person on the other end then we care about the $10-30 we 'make' off the deal. The ones that 'hit and run' don't last very long. The reputation and my personal core values come first. Always.

It never hurts to ask for pictures of the actual plants. It never hurts to check the seller's tank or the iTrader rating. 

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## Nolan (Feb 12, 2013)

What is the plant growing out of the top in the back right corner?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Frameless 10g on a budget: as told with a ton of crappy pictures*

It's Water Hacynth, a floater.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Sparkling gourami update*

Yesterday, found 1 dead on the substrate in the 10g and 2 dead floating in the 17g . All from the last shipment on Fr. They did look emasculated, with no other visible damage. Much thinner then the 2 that I now have for 3 weeks. Still, a bummer

I pulled the remaining one from the 17g and moved it to 10g. Ghaa.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

The gourami I move expired last night. That makes 4 DOA and 4 dead in the tank over 4 days out oh 10 ordered. Not good .

All 20 corys from the same seller as the gouramies are doing well. So, no idea what gives.


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

bummer to hear about the fishes!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Sucks to hear. Is this from a local store, if so, PM me. Knowing your tanks, I can pretty much assume it was no error of your own.


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## zzrguy (Jul 11, 2012)

Looks good.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

2 weeks has passed since the first water change - enough time for the next assessment. I check the tank out, making mental notes of what I want to do with it the next day. The plants are taking off and the 2 sparkling gouramis doubled in length and are getting fat. Before I dive into my detailed account, some pictures:

Front - plants and more plants










Top:










Back:










*Fauna:*

These guys look like a pair in the making:










"The other woman":










Just too cute:










Getting a pic of gouramies is getting harder:



















Dinner is served:










*Flora:*

Vesuvius is taking over the world:










I think tomorrow is a trim day...


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Rants on planting a new tank*



talontsiawd said:


> ...Suggestion for the foreground...blyxa japonica can get pretty big, even in a low tech tank. The little bit you gave me is actually taking over my little 6 gallon and is about 4-5 in tall. I have found that Echinodorus tenellus is a good low tech plant but can grow tall as well...


I hear you, brother, and thank you for the offer. As always, you are right, as you will see in my next post. I purposely selected (a lie) the plants I planted - I might be mad, but I tend to do things for a (mad) reason. I also thank you for giving me the opening for the following collection of personal rants. 

*Rant #1*: The real reason I planted what I did is simple: I had the plants. Even though I have e. tenellus in several tanks (you can see some in my picture of another tank in this thread) it can be either a blessing or a curse. But that's a subject for another runt.

*Rant #2:* I am blessed that this is not my first tank and that I learned along the journey the hard way: by hitting my head against hard objects. Repeatedly. And hard.

I have learned that this hobby takes patience, time, perseverance, effort, and patience.

*Runt #2.1*: All of us want to set up a new tank and have it win a contest. On day one. This forum is awash in pictures of beautiful, gorgeous, breath taking pieces of art. What gets lost in the flood is the effort and the time and the knowledge and the skills to create one. If you want a tank full of 'difficult', rare and expensive plants the day you first fill it - I will help you. For a price. You will have one long enough to snap a dozen pictures. After that, you are on your own.

Just check the number of posts on HC, DHG, MM et al. The Dry Start? for 6 months!?! Screw that. I want my pay back and I want it now, just like the other guy. The difference is I actually know what it takes to grow HC in a low tech tank and I am not willing to pay the price. I plant a bunch of blyxa that you cannot give away and I have an instant green tank.

Yes, most of us will not look twice. Big deal, Blyxa. HC and DHG is what you want to show off to 'earn' your spot up front. And you set yourself up and fall on your face. And you leave the hobby to fail again in something else because "patience, perseverance, effort" are not in your lexicon. Instant gratification is.

You, and many others, have seen my tanks in person. None of them is perfect or without problems or ever finished. But then again you know how many plants I've sold. How many R. macrandra and Nesaea Red I gave away to others to try out, to reach higher. How many of those people have ever gotten back to me with stories of success? Maybe 2. Max. Sooo, I did not want a bunch of R. macrandra rotting in my tank. But, *talontsiawd*, you just might now me better then I know myself :tongue: - I just might end up with a 10g 100% planted with healthy, red r. macrandra ... eventually.

Nesaea red, in my tank:
(do you see much algae? That's a 65g 18" tall tank with 324w of t5ho @ 12 hrs/day)










and in my kitchen sink:










R. macrandra, in my kitchen sink:










Guess this plant, in that color:










*Rant #3*: The plants that I expect to be the 'anchor' plants (larger rosettes) get planted first. They define the planted part of the scape, I want to give them a head start on developing the root system and I do not expect or want to move them around the tank. In this case, I want to keep the red tiger lotus and the banana plant.

The rest of the tank gets planted wall to wall with as with much variety of fast growing, cheap / disposable plants as I can get my hands on. My goal is to get to a stable tank as soon as possible. I also try to select plants that have different growing patterns to serve as my indicators.

For example, I expect to pull out some of the *Blyxa* to check for the root development. I want long healthy roots that indicate that the substrate is not too compacted, has decent levels of 02 and nutrients. Short and/or decaying roots will point to problems that will need to be addressed.

*L. repens* and *S. sessiliflora* use a lot of nutrients from the water column and don't really require that much light. If these plants fail to show decent growth then my dosing is probably out of whack.

*Vesuvius* is a rosette plant that has shallow roots and reproduces via aerial runners. If that plant fails to stay put, then the substrate might be too lose for it. If the roots start to rot, then I need to check the cleanliness on top of the substrate (organics). If it fails to start sending out runners, then it does not have enough food.

*Water Sprite*, besides being a great nutrients sync, does not have to be planted. If its roots that I put on top of the substrate start to rot then check the organics.

*HM* is a relatively slow growing stem in low light and can be rather 'touchy'. If it's not looking great then maybe my circulation fails to deliver the nutrients it needs. It is also a great thread algae 'magnet': if I start seeing it then I will tone the flow down a bit.

Floating plants like *Brazilian pennywort* serve several purposes. First of all, with their access to atmospheric co2, they are not co2 limited. They should take off the fastest in a lo tec, no co2 tank, unless something is really wrong. By being fast growers they are also my defense against drastic swings in a small tank. Moreover, floaters tend to have well developed, fine and dense roots - the perfect place for the string/thread algae to make the first appearance which provide me with the early warning system on flow and nutrients.

Another important role of floaters (and water sprite) is to give me tools to adjust the amount of light reaching the planted plants. If I see GSA - I drop in more floaters. If things are looking stable, I can remove some to gradually increase the level of light without messing with the light fixture. If the tank is rock stable, then I am in a decent spot with my initial light / fert / flow combination.

As the tank matures, I will start replacing the initial plants with something more interesting and / or demanding. Depending on the overall health of the tank I can either increase or decrease my re-planting pace. So, the selection of the initial plants allow me to gauge the state of the affairs and to nudge different parameters towards my golden middle.

As a side note, I have not used a test kit at all yet. I only test the water if things start going south overnight.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

OVT said:


> *talontsiawd*, you just might now me better then I know myself :tongue: - I just might end up with a 10g 100% planted with healthy, red r. macrandra ... eventually.


You may, but my guess is it will be Orange r. macrandra, still can be really attractive though. Only reason I bring that up is that you should try throwing in some plants you consider really hard to grow. Some, not all, will do much better than you think in a low tech with enough light. They will grow slow and not color up as much, but they still can be really attractive, especially because they often grow more compact.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

You are right, it will be mostly green with some yellow and orange highlights, unless it is trailing right under the lights. I was actually thinking to try Nesaea Golden first as a accent plant. Stay tuned.


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## rocksmom (Mar 6, 2012)

Vesuvius swords? Oh no, now I'm tempted to buy another package from you! I just need to put you on payroll and you can send me all your plant trimmings. I'll see what I can keep alive until you send more 

Your rant #2.1 was very timely for me. My first high tech is not quite the walk in the park I thought it was going to be. Thanks for that.

And yes, I am jealous of your tank. So green. So lush.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Actually many of the harder to grow weeds do better in low tech tanks, as long as there's not that much competition and there's some partial shading. Depends on what else you have in with the other plants also.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Exactly


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*First trim and evaluation*

As per my previous post, it is time to trim and check the plants more closely for the first signs of trouble.

Without doing pre- and post- planting dry weight test, I am guessing that the plant mass doubled in the last ~ weeks. The surface is now ~75% covered with pennywort, water sprite, L. repens, S. sessiliflora and R. 'Bangladesh'. I trim the L. repens to ~4" off the substrate, remove the trailing water sprite stems and shove the rotala to the side. This gives me better access to the mass of floating pennywort.

The first thing I do is check the roots: they are long, bushy and dense. The bad news is that I'm seeing some strands of the thread algae. Not really unexpected. Based on this appearance I take two remedial actions: I thin the plants more then I initially wanted (to improve circulation) and I raise the water level ~ 1/4" to slightly reduce the o2. I trim off ~1/2 of the plant to open the substrate to more light.

Blyxa is next: it looks green, healthy and ready to take over whatever space is left. I pull out the longest stems and check the roots. The roots are long and healthy. The roots on the water sprite are partially in and out of the substrate and looking white and healthy, with no signs of rot. Given the state of the roots on Blyxa and the water sprite, I will not vacuum or loosen the substrate.

Vesuvius is next: I remove several decaying blades and check the runners. I find at least 3. I remove the longest, which is snaking all over the tank. That guy has 9 plantets (smile). Even with a bunch of runners, the plant is staying put and I see no signs of rot on the roots visible above the substrate. Another indicator to leave the substrate alone.

The S. sessiliflora is looking better then in any of my high-light co2-injected tanks (as expected). It is now snaking across the surface from the back corner to the front. That's about 10". I really do not want to reduce the plant load in this small tank too much too fast. So, I leave it and the rest of the plants be.

I check the trimmed stems of L. repens in the white kitchen sink. Only against the white background I can see that the top of the leaves are not completely green but do have just a touch of color. I check the leaves' edges and do not find any bites from snails (more on this later). I also do not find GSA on the lower leaves. Therefore, I will not change my fert dosing just yet.

I check the R. 'bangladesh' and it looks totally green in the tank. The internodes are on the longer side, telling me that it could use a bit more light.

As I have removed a chunk of floating plants, it will be interesting to see if more light will benefit the rotala and the L. repens.

With the exception of a couple of rotten stems on Vesuvius, there are no rotting matter in the tank. That's good news. I check the outflow, the rocks, and the tank corners for BBA. I cannot find any (another smile). If BBA does not show up on it's own, I will do a 'BBA test' in a couple of weeks.

The last thing I do is double-check the glass for GDA and GSA. I only find some spots around the tank. I take a bunch of pictures and, lo and behold, they show a lot more GDA and GSA that I could see with my naked eyes. The glass will get cleaned at the next water change and I make a mental note to dump in some extra K.

Overall, I am happy. So far, my initial guesses on light, ferts, and flow seem to be holding. But the tank is not even 2 months old and popping open the champagne would be a bit premature.

*Remedial Actions Summary:*
- add K at next WC
- raise water level ~ 1/4"
- keep checking for green thread algae and BBA
- keep everything else the same


The trimming bounty:
(check the roots on Blyxa, the color of L. repens and pennywort and the length of that single runner)










After the trim
Front:










Top:










Back:










Too long internodes on R. 'Bangladesh':










The picture that showed me algae on the glass:


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## Neatfish (Jun 22, 2012)

Your problem is you have to many plants mine is I don't have enough plants. I dig the tank looks like a jungle. What's that plant growing on top of the tank?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Working a completely STUPID schedule of 7days/12hr shifts for the last month my tanks look like $&*$%!!! Finally made it to startup mode on this power generating pig of a power plant. We get to drop back to 10hr day's starting tomorrow. (doing the dance) Might even get a couple days off next weekend.

Thanks for the thread,,, it was the read I needed today.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

OVT said:


> It's Water Hacynth, a floater.


Not a bad plant for a young tank


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

I really love your tank! Are you dosing ferts, if so would you mind sharing what you use and how often? What's your photoperiod?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

bluestems said:


> I really love your tank! Are you dosing ferts, if so would you mind sharing what you use and how often? What's your photoperiod?


Thank you.

4 tbs KNO3 + 3 tbs K2SO4 + 1 tbs CSM+B + 1 tbs MgSO4 7H2O
mixed in 1 Litter of water
add ~ 5ml of Excel to prevent mold

dose 5ml of the above solution per 10g every other day.

1 bulb is on for 4 hours, 2 bulbs on for 6 hours, total of 10 hours per day for now.


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

OVT said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 4 tbs KNO3 + 3 tbs K2SO4 + 1 tbs CSM+B + 1 tbs MgSO4 7H2O
> mixed in 1 Litter of water
> ...


thanks :smile:


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Eggs*

My planned discourse on the tank inhabitants got upstaged by a pair of GRB spawning last night. Almost from the start I thought that I have identified a pair in the making, one 'loaner' male and one 'the other woman'. My biggest surprise is that it's the last two that spawned, and not 'the pair'.

Dad guarding eggs:










Mom is guarding the perimeter:










The other female trying to sneak in:










The other male that did not perform: camera shy (I wonder why)


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Update*

The GBR eggs are gone and no fry...

Moved 2 and then 2 more Black Molly fry out. Somehow, out of the original 6 I still have 4 left in the tank. 

So far, no algae. Trimmed all Rotala Bangladesh which grew to ~20", pulled the largest grow-out Hygro, a water sprite and some more Blyxa. The plants are going to a couple of friends.

The tank still looks too full of plants. But the fish needs it, ... right?

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Another trim*

11 days later and it's time for another trim + WC. Algae check does not uncover much of anything and I leave the tank's glass alone for now.

I am slowly moving towards a more open scape, but I am still concerned about the tank's stability and the comfort of the inhabitants. The trim:










The result:



















Most of the grow-out Hygro will be pulled tonight as they have been promised to another TPT member. I will probably plant the area they currently occupy with some HC I have floating in another tank.

The over-grown Blyxa was pulled and replaced with tiny versions in the front right corner.

Both the Red Tiger Lotus and the Banana plant are starting to take off. I got to keep both of them in scale:










Hey! Who is eating my plants!!! Started moving snails out:










Ludwigia is not doing too badly after the last trim:










Blyxa is not looking too shabby either:










The Cory Bar: food? where where where? C'mon man, another beer:


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*April 23, 2013*

Another water change and some trimming: 4 stems of L. repens, Limno, R. Bangladesh got a trim. I keep dividing and pulling out more Blyxa.

Started adding some red stems: the corys really like the wide leaves of A. reineckii and now hang on them more and more often. Also planted 1/2" R. macrandra to see if it will survive. No visible signs of algae.

After the trim:



















The stand-off:










Baby macrandra:


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

After a long search, I finally found a 30g 24" x 24" x 12"H tank that will replace this one in a week or so. I do not expect to update this journal from now on.

The 30g Journal.


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## ernest (Sep 19, 2012)

OVT said:


> Even though I like plants, I do like something moving among them. The 5 existing Black Molly fry and the snails did not satisfy my desire for more fins. That started my predictable search for the additional occupants.
> 
> Over the following 2 weeks I jerked around many people and single-handedly propelled the hit count on anything fishy to the new heights on Google. Given that I only had 10g to play with, I concentrated on 'nano' fish: CPD, badis, ember tetras, rasboras of different stripes and colors, Microdevario kubotai, and even glow light tetras were on my list.
> 
> ...


thanks for your ideas.... you previously said that you had 75W EcoSmart CLF
but in the pictures those are not them, they are different What are they ?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Glad some of my travails were of help.
The very last picture is of a different tank, a 17g hi tech with Hagen GLO 2 x t5ho.
The 10g does have 2 CFL bulbs that soon will be moved over to the 30g. Sorry for the confusion.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Any idea why I can not see the pictures in this thread anymore? I saw it quickly and bookmarked it, I have come back to read and for several days now the photos are all missing?


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## Jardiamj (Oct 31, 2016)

Teebo said:


> Any idea why I can not see the pictures in this thread anymore? I saw it quickly and bookmarked it, I have come back to read and for several days now the photos are all missing?


I can't see the pictures in this and some other threads either. I don't know why, because in some others I can see them no problem.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Its really unfortunate because the quick glimpse I got of this thread before I bookmarked it excited me, it looked really nice!


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Hm, I just re-read this old thread of mine and I can see all of the pictures.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

OVT said:


> Hm, I just re-read this old thread of mine and I can see all of the pictures.


They are all back  did you change the links or did Photobucket lift the ban?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Teebo said:


> They are all back  did you change the links or did Photobucket lift the ban?


No, I did not change the links and the pictures are hosted on TPT.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I had a bit of a hard time following this as the tanks kept changing but I can tell how into it you got, reminds me of how I get with my own. I may have missed the name of it but I love how you used the driftwood as a way to hold that floating plant in place with the air pockets in the leaf stems...whatever the name we have those everywhere down here in FL, they are one of the largest floating plant species here. You must be running Purigen, your water is free of tannins. 

I did see you mention Rotala Macrandra, is that what this is below? What about to the left in the second photo? Appears you also have some Rotala "green" mixed in?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

@Teebo: thank you.

Both plants on the left are R. macrandra, with some green mixed in.
Strangely enough I have never used Purigen. That floating plant, water hyacinth, collects all dust on its roots, in addition to sucking all the nutrients out.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Whats your trick with the red pigment? High iron? Low NO3?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Teebo said:


> Whats your trick with the red pigment? High iron? Low NO3?


Just high light from t5s, I dosed EI with no extra iron.
I am trying to get that red again but with LEDs and NO3 < 0.5 ppm but, so far, with no results: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1261106-60-p-re-do-led-co2.html


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

OVT said:


> Just high light from t5s, I dosed EI with no extra iron.
> I am trying to get that red again but with LEDs and NO3 < 0.5 ppm but, so far, with no results: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1261106-60-p-re-do-led-co2.html


So you seem to have dismissed the iron method, I also have high lighting but have not had great success like you yet. I recently learned about the reduced NO3 helping red plants, and I always kept my tanks around 5-10ppm max but....0.5ppm?? You must be using marine test kits and adding NO3 daily with that much plant mass.


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