# Dutch aquariums



## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

I don't how many others are like myself and became drawn into this hobby many years ago before ADA and the days of the internet but some of the first inspirations for me were pictures that were in older books/magazines that my dad had when I was growing up. Most of these planted tanks were either the natural approach(which didn't keep any of the real demanding plants that most of us want to keep) or strictly Dutch tanks. I'm glad that Amano and ADA have drawn more people into this hobby but it still amazes me that more people don't find inspiration in the Dutch style tanks. These tanks to this day still IMO are the definition of a planted tank. I can't begin to think of the discipline and meticulous maintenance that it would take to create some of these masterpieces. The horticultural skills that these Dutch aquascapers have are on a whole new level. Here is some videos that might give some of you inspiration to try the Dutch style or at least a little relaxation while you watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq5sO2nScLI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q27dH36FAHU


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## ElviaRogers (Jan 3, 2014)

The blue fishes look absolutely beautiful in the water. It actually accentuates the green shrubs and the plant life in there.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Just when I think I am making progress....lol. 

These are great.


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm with you on this. I've been trying to learn to grow & trim plants and am slowly replacing ones that do not seem to "fit" this inspired style. Then finding where certain plants grow best in my tank then trying to group them....It's a long learning process that would be greatly sped up if we could find simple video tutorials for How To Trim & Prune the various plant types popular to the Dutch Style. These are the secrets that I would love to be shared and THEN I believe more folks would want to try these type set ups. It is intimidating to look at these wonderful works of art and try to mimic them when it's so easy to jump on Youtube & see a million how to videos for the "Nature" style & seeing Amano time & time again showing his set ups from start to finish. I've seen ZERO VIDEOS on the Dutch Style set ups & trimming techniques, ZERO. 

I created this thread (link below) to help inspire and understand this style a little better and have even asked some of the more seasoned gurus to shoot a video for pruning & trimming techniques for this style and no one will offer up their expertise, none...at least not yet. 

Thanks for the links & I hope you can enjoy this thread I put together...
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436617


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Honestly, I prefer dutch to "nature" style, although in reality I tend to go a bit of a hybrid of the two, as I don't have the patience or time to go full dutch. But I don't think you can beat the colors or in-your-face-ness of the dutch approach.

I like me some colorful stems, even if I'm not that great at making a scape


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I see no good reason NOT to incorporate nice hardscaping into dutch general plant grouping guidelines.

Aquatic Horticulture is growing aquatic plants.

Hardscaping, well.............it can have something to do with plants, but it can also have NOTHING to do with plants. So it's a very wide range.

Both require skill, but they are not the SAME skills.
I've met some amazing hardscapers, but terrible at growing and maintaining plants for long. 

I think over the decades, Dutch planted aquarium's have evolved, but there are a few traditionalist. I would really like to see those traditionalist maintained. We are at the point where we might lose the hobbyists who are well suited to do such styles.It takes newbies coming into this hobby to keep it going. Same with Bonsai. Many of the old timers have great institutional and horticultural knowledge. 

1.
Some changes were the use of CO2 gas in the 1970's, very heated debates occurred. Today, it's pretty standard.

2. Today we have far more plant options, roughly 20-50 back then if you were real lucky, to today's of nearly 200-500 species/types. 

3. Gardening with many new species takes time and sourcing the plants. Using the old standards might be a better option for the newbies wanting to work more with this style/approach.

4. For folks that are really drawn to the plants, have a tinge of collectoritus, this style lends well. Hardscaping can be pursued later if you feel inadequate about that one right now.

5. Main thing for me is seeing a nice decent sized group of plants contrasted well among its neighbors which are also decent nice sized groups. By this, I mean what you would like to see several stems together at their optimal, not just a farm tank with 1-2 etc. 

6. Scaping and making nice groups is very different from just farming.

7. Say you do not have the time to fiddle? Well, you can chose easier or slower growing species. 

8. This does not take away any from the Nature style, I would suggest trying your hand at both. If you are weak in one area you like a lot....then practice.
You do not suddenly or by pure natural luck become great at Bass guitar or drums or math.

Same deal here.

This is a bit more of the traditional style I speak of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXXAz5n9x5U


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

BruceF said:


> Just when I think I am making progress....lol.
> 
> These are great.


I know what you mean. There is times that I'm really happy with the way my tank looks and then I get a dose of reality and see a tank like this.



jfynyson said:


> I'm with you on this. I've been trying to learn to grow & trim plants and am slowly replacing ones that do not seem to "fit" this inspired style. Then finding where certain plants grow best in my tank then trying to group them....It's a long learning process that would be greatly sped up if we could find simple video tutorials for How To Trim & Prune the various plant types popular to the Dutch Style. These are the secrets that I would love to be shared and THEN I believe more folks would want to try these type set ups. It is intimidating to look at these wonderful works of art and try to mimic them when it's so easy to jump on Youtube & see a million how to videos for the "Nature" style & seeing Amano time & time again showing his set ups from start to finish. I've seen ZERO VIDEOS on the Dutch Style set ups & trimming techniques, ZERO.
> 
> I created this thread (link below) to help inspire and understand this style a little better and have even asked some of the more seasoned gurus to shoot a video for pruning & trimming techniques for this style and no one will offer up their expertise, none...at least not yet.
> 
> ...


I did read through your thread when you posted it and I have to agree that there is not a whole lot of info on the Dutch style aquascapes. I don't think I would ever try a Dutch tank by the books and follow all the rules that the Dutch style has as I like to have some hardscape in my tank but I do think that there can be a hybrid style that utilizes the basis of the Dutch style. Large groupings of plants that contrast with each other using different textures and color. Tom's tanks are what I would consider this hybrid style. What stands out most to me in the Dutch style tanks are their horticultural skills. I mean it's one thing to be able to grow anubias, ferns, and mosses but being able to grow a huge selection of demanding stem plants and have them all look happy and healthy is not for the timid. I have searched the web for tips on pruning plants properly and have yet to find anything of value that is informative. The only thing that has helped me is through experience of growing a lot of different plants. The first few years after I got into the planted side of this hobby I spent just strictly growing different plants with the purpose of learning certain plants growth habits with no care in regards to aquascaping. I'm still learning to this day on what some plants like and don't like. 





HybridHerp said:


> Honestly, I prefer dutch to "nature" style, although in reality I tend to go a bit of a hybrid of the two, as I don't have the patience or time to go full dutch. But I don't think you can beat the colors or in-your-face-ness of the dutch approach.
> 
> I like me some colorful stems, even if I'm not that great at making a scape


Who doesn't like a tank full of different colors and textures? Your not alone with regards to making a great scape using the concepts of the Dutch style. I think if it were easy you would see a whole lot more of them but the fact that you don't says something. I have nothing against the "nature" style but in the last few years the tanks that have been all the rage are not my cup of tea. The little miniature dioramas that resemble a forest or desert scene are nice for a photo op but not something that I would want to look at on a daily basis.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> I see no good reason NOT to incorporate nice hardscaping into dutch general plant grouping guidelines.
> 
> Aquatic Horticulture is growing aquatic plants.
> 
> ...


Thanks for chiming in Tom. I wish there was more of these old timer traditionalist around giving some of the new generation of hobbyists advice and encouragement to keep this style alive. I have read some threads on UKAPS that Marco did and beyond that there's just not a whole lot of talk going around the hobby about the Dutch style. I know that times change but there is something sacred about keeping traditions alive and relevant. These style of tanks inspired me but like I said this was many years before ADA and the internet so maybe it is a generation gap issue. 

And imagine my disappointment when I first started playing guitar and found out I didn't sound like Jimmy Paige.:icon_wink


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

ua hua said:


> Thanks for chiming in Tom. I wish there was more of these old timer traditionalist around giving some of the new generation of hobbyists advice and encouragement to keep this style alive. I have read some threads on UKAPS that Marco did and beyond that there's just not a whole lot of talk going around the hobby about the Dutch style. I know that times change but there is something sacred about keeping traditions alive and relevant. These style of tanks inspired me but like I said this was many years before ADA and the internet so maybe it is a generation gap issue.
> 
> *And imagine my disappointment when I first started playing guitar and found out I didn't sound like Jimmy Paige*.:icon_wink


Yeah but at least these days we have tablature making guitar (or most any stringed instrument for that matter) easy to learn. We need aquatic gardening tablature (so to speak) so we can at least know the correct ways to prune & trim various plant types from the start. This will save a lot of time, money, and help those starting with their confidence in the hobby whether its nature or dutch style. These days we are all about instant gratification and at the same time there is something to be said about learning through trial & error. However, as I stated trial & error costs and we do not seem to have enough time these days. 

So, it sounds like there is a need for almost all in this hobby and when there is a need there is money to be made. Anyone up for a European trip to interview some of the Dutch style masters and Amano for pruning & trimming tips ? Tom, we can start with you (you said to come over and you'd show us)...Let's make a video / documentary / tutorial for this (pruning & trimming / training the plants) aspect of planted aquariums I guarantee you it would sell off the shelf especially if Amano & others (such as this forum) market it !!! This way the old master's tips & tricks will not die with them and the hobby lives on ...


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Man, I'd be sad if Dutch died. I think my two favorite tanks are tom's 120 and crazydaze's 220.

Besides, I think when someone new is shown Dutch and nature style, they might gravitate more towards Dutch. It's more reasonably insane (as compared to those tricked out hard scapes you sometimes see that defy gravity and logic) and it's very dense and packed. If most people start this hobby through fish keeping, I find the ideas newer fish keepers have in fish display more in Dutch than they do in nature style.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

HybridHerp said:


> Man, I'd be sad if Dutch died. I think my two favorite tanks are tom's 120 and crazydaze's 220.
> 
> Besides, I think when someone new is shown Dutch and nature style, they might gravitate more towards Dutch. It's more reasonably insane (as compared to those tricked out hard scapes you sometimes see that defy gravity and logic) and it's very dense and packed. If most people start this hobby through fish keeping, I find the ideas newer fish keepers have in fish display more in Dutch than they do in nature style.


While both Tom and Don's tanks are really nice looking tanks they are still not the traditional Dutch tank. I'm not saying that's a bad thing because I actuallly really like the hybrid style of a Dutch approach with strong hardscape elements. The fact of the matter is you just don't see the traditional Dutch tanks that much anymore. I happen to think that it's a sign of the times and with the introduction of ADA and the "nature style" this style of aquascaping has been almost forgotten about. ADA is a company after all and they have marketed their style heavily with the purpose of selling product. The same thing Dupla did years ago, they were marketing a product(heating cables). The traditional Dutch scape would be next to impossible to follow for myself because I have the need for some kind of hardscape in my tanks. Maybe I need a little of the "nature style" but I can't help but be drawn to tanks that have nice healthy looking groupings of plants that complement each other by differing shapes, textures, and colors. I guess if the new movement of style can at least pay tribute to the Dutch style but with a little of the nature style intermixed then this could be the best of both worlds. That's not to say that I wouldn't still love to see some people do the traditional Dutch tank but I don't know if I could ever pull it off.


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

So I write again....I think this is the solution for all. I feel we should push this.

So, it sounds like there is a need for almost all in this hobby and when there is a need there is money to be made. Anyone up for a European trip to interview some of the Dutch style masters and Amano for pruning & trimming tips ? Tom, we can start with you (you said to come over and you'd show us)...Let's make a video / documentary / tutorial for this (pruning & trimming / training the plants) aspect of planted aquariums I guarantee you it would sell off the shelf especially if Amano & others (such as this forum) market it !!! This way the old master's tips & tricks will not die with them and the hobby lives on ...:icon_cool

What do you think ?


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

I'd support it


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I could do a video, but it needs done well.
If someone had videoed what I did yesterday to the 120, that would have done well for helping most folks.

The tank and the style are not that tough, I think a well done hardscape is harder because once in place, it is much much more difficult to replace, you are FULLY COMMITTED, or you have to tear the entire tank down and start over.

Not so with the Dutch style, you might need to do a water change or two, make a little mess, but you can redo things much easier.

I think given the process I've gone through, the style or the on going stuff is not that "hard" really, certainly no more than ANY Nature style. I think that would be a myth to suggest the Dutch style requires more work, effort, on going care.

I also think the built in look and all contained that is a key part of the NBAT contest is an nice approach, but it's certainly NOT my aesthetic. I greatly prefer open tops and always have. It makes caring for the tank much easier. 
Hiding things, faux backgrounds etc, these are often things that the Dutch style aesthetic went towards. I like those elements, cork backgrounds, I've done a number of such tanks. Water quality, this part of the NBAT rules is frankly a joke and anyone can get around it.

I think hobbyists place way too much importance on ferts, not enough on day to day stuff, cleaning leaves off the surface/filter intakes, not doing frequent water changes, CO2 CO2 and CO2 and good lighting. Some tanks need very little input, some need a lot.

Newbies sure do not know the differences between those type of tanks. Most of my own tanks show a range of input, they are not all high input. Reef, Buce, non CO2, Starougyne, then the 120. Too much work as a hobby otherwise.


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks Tom for the notes & your input here and on your other thread (the v3.0). I believe that would be a perfect example of what would be invaluable to have videos of. The forum has the Planted Tank Guide book but if a picture tells a 1000 stories then a video tells 1x10^9 IMO. 

I just found this that's a huge help as well.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/pruning-a-general-guide-to-plant-maintenance.236/


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## JeffE (Oct 8, 2013)

Please make some trimming and tank maintenance videos Tom!!! Even if its just for the members section of your forum!


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## MB2 (Feb 6, 2007)

I prefer a hybrid style. As Tom said: "I see no good reason NOT to incorporate nice hardscaping into dutch general plant grouping guidelines". Dutch tanks look stunningly beautiful. However, at the same time they don't look as natural. Also the frequent maintenance required to keep them in top shape. This is my tank that I set up in June using hardwood and anubias to provide a framework. Then I added different plants to provide contrast in color, shape, size, and texture... trying to make it look as natural as possible. Here is the link to the video. The DW was purchased from Tom by the way.

125G hybrid style: 

http://youtu.be/7CM927yt1Sc


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

MB2 said:


> I prefer a hybrid style. As Tom said: "I see no good reason NOT to incorporate nice hardscaping into dutch general plant grouping guidelines". Dutch tanks look stunningly beautiful. However, at the same time they don't look as natural. Also the frequent maintenance required to keep them in top shape. This is my tank that I set up in June using hardwood and anubias to provide a framework. Then I added different plants to provide contrast in color, shape, size, and texture... trying to make it look as natural as possible. Here is the link to the video. The DW was purchased from Tom by the way.
> 
> 125G hybrid style:
> 
> http://youtu.be/7CM927yt1Sc


That's a screaming tank there.
Those Anubias will root over the wood and look really really cool as things age.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I see a very good reason to NOT include Hardscape and CO2 also to a a Traditional Dutch Aquascape....because it's no longer Traditional. I offer the easiest way to deal with the "debate" is add a classification.

Traditional would be No CO2, No heated Cables and hold plant selection to the roughly 20-50 back then. Keep the traditional Dutch tank a test of aquaculture skills without aide/crutches of technology. Promote the ridged rules of days gone buy. Don't dumb it down for the weak of heart. Keep it a true challenge of the hobby.

~ Create a "Modern" Dutch Classification to reflect curent trends in equipment & taste in appearance.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

DogFish said:


> I see a very good reason to NOT include Hardscape and CO2 also to a a Traditional Dutch Aquascape....because it's no longer Traditional. I offer the easiest way to deal with the "debate" is add a classification.
> 
> Traditional would be No CO2, No heated Cables and hold plant selection to the roughly 20-50 back then. Keep the traditional Dutch tank a test of aquaculture skills without aide/crutches of technology. Promote the ridged rules of days gone but. Don't dumb it down for the weak of heart. Keep it a true challenge of the hobby.
> 
> ~ Create a "Modern" Dutch Classification to reflect curent trends in equipment & taste in appearance.


I think CO2 is a given at this point, that war was lost back in the 1970's and 1980's. There was a war in the hobby over it, but few here would know about that unless they are 50+ years old and/or were kids like me. 

CO2 adds much more to the actual horticulture aspects, whereas hardscaping does not. Heater cables was all Dupla. On the hardscaping, I would agree on this line of argument. 

Aquarist never had much choice prior to 1970's for CO2. There are references of DIY CO2 going back to 1962. But these were not widely used and shared among hobbyists interested in aquatic plants at the time. Dupla really was the company that brought CO2 gas to the mainstream aquarium market. And they saw the results from other hobbyists in NL's and Germany etc prior to taking that risk. 

There is a big jump in the older styles that had no CO2 vs the newer versions. But..........prior, they simply had no other choice.


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## zetvi (Jun 12, 2013)

Here is one video that i just found on how to maintain the dutch style. Hope this helps and i hope this thread keep going on as im vey interested in learning dutch too

http://youtu.be/ZHwBMXHgOU0


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> I think CO2 is a given at this point, that war was lost back in the 1970's and 1980's. There was a war in the hobby over it, but few here would know about that unless they are 50+ years old and/or were kids like me...


I'm one of those 50+ dinosaurs and my LT memory is still pretty good 

I find value in preserving pieces of our past. Most "Advances" developed by mankind are to make life simpler/reduce effort. The negative as I see it is that technological advances tend to lessen the need for human skill.

I prefer to see new Aquascaping disciplines developed & celebrated vs. traditions being neutered.


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## zetvi (Jun 12, 2013)

MB2 said:


> I prefer a hybrid style. As Tom said: "I see no good reason NOT to incorporate nice hardscaping into dutch general plant grouping guidelines". Dutch tanks look stunningly beautiful. However, at the same time they don't look as natural. Also the frequent maintenance required to keep them in top shape. This is my tank that I set up in June using hardwood and anubias to provide a framework. Then I added different plants to provide contrast in color, shape, size, and texture... trying to make it look as natural as possible. Here is the link to the video. The DW was purchased from Tom by the way.
> 
> 125G hybrid style:
> 
> http://youtu.be/7CM927yt1Sc


Đẹp quá anh ơi !


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

MB2 said:


> I prefer a hybrid style. As Tom said: "I see no good reason NOT to incorporate nice hardscaping into dutch general plant grouping guidelines". Dutch tanks look stunningly beautiful. However, at the same time they don't look as natural. Also the frequent maintenance required to keep them in top shape. This is my tank that I set up in June using hardwood and anubias to provide a framework. Then I added different plants to provide contrast in color, shape, size, and texture... trying to make it look as natural as possible. Here is the link to the video. The DW was purchased from Tom by the way.
> 
> 125G hybrid style:
> 
> http://youtu.be/7CM927yt1Sc


Wow, that's a really nice looking tank, MB2. I would like to know more about your tank. I saw that you were using BML lights but what kind of filtration, substrate, etc. You need to have a journal thread for that tank as it would benefit others to be able to see what a beauty that is.


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## MB2 (Feb 6, 2007)

zetvi said:


> Đẹp quá anh ơi !


Cám ơn em.


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## MB2 (Feb 6, 2007)

ua hua said:


> Wow, that's a really nice looking tank, MB2. I would like to know more about your tank. I saw that you were using BML lights but what kind of filtration, substrate, etc. You need to have a journal thread for that tank as it would benefit others to be able to see what a beauty that is.


Ua hua, I am planning to, most likely this wkend to share with others the details...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

DogFish said:


> I'm one of those 50+ dinosaurs and my LT memory is still pretty good
> 
> I find value in preserving pieces of our past. Most "Advances" developed by mankind are to make life simpler/reduce effort. The negative as I see it is that technological advances tend to lessen the need for human skill.
> 
> I prefer to see new Aquascaping disciplines developed & celebrated vs. traditions being neutered.


I agree totally. 

I champion the non CO2 methods as well. I do not accept that they must look yucky. Mine don't

And if you can grow them that way, then doing the Dutch style can be done also.

Big issue is that many do not try those methods and take pics, do scapes, promote like Nature style and ADA do.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> I agree totally.
> 
> I champion the non CO2 methods as well. I do not accept that they must look yucky. Mine don't
> 
> ...


Tom, I feel to many miss the point of celebrating the challenges various aquascape styles offer and tend get tunnel vision on methodology prejudices.

I also think it's basic human nature to get comfortable in a hobby sector we have relative success with. We grow more by failing at new challenges than we do repeating old success.

That said maybe it's time I try a formal Dutch Aquascape using only stem plants and step outside the comfort zone of my crypts :wink:


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

DogFish said:


> Tom, I feel to many miss the point of celebrating the challenges various aquascape styles offer and tend get tunnel vision on methodology prejudices.
> 
> I also think it's basic human nature to get comfortable in a hobby sector we have relative success with. We grow more by failing at new challenges than we do repeating old success.
> 
> That said maybe it's time I try a formal Dutch Aquascape using only stem plants and step outside the comfort zone of my crypts :wink:


I agree with you. I love to try new challenges that is why I came from the reef side to the planted side of the hobby. I thought it would be something different and I would have all new things to learn even though there is some overlap between the two. I would love to do a traditional Dutch tank but I would have a hard time following all the rules of the traditional style. With that being said I think there can be a new style which incorporates some of the traditional Dutch scapes but as with anything there can an evolution to it. The fact of the matter is I'm a little too intimidated to try a traditional Dutch tank myself at this moment so I will just have to wait and see what you do. And I will be holding you to it because you said it on an internet forum so that means you have to follow through.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

ua hua - DEAL! :hihi:

I've been doing a lot of variations on the same tank, getting into a safe rut. So maybe time is right to accept a new challenge in this hobby. :wink:

I've recently pulled a lot of crypts out of my 40 and replaced them with S. repens. A bit of a test to see how they will respond to my PAR38 Led pendents, MTS, Non CO2 tank. If that goes well, next would be to figure out how to work some of my existing java fern in(if Java fern is acceptable)

Also need to locate the Old school Dutch rules. That would be what I'd go for the retro 60's/70's Dutch style tank. Groovey!!


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

DogFish said:


> ua hua - DEAL! :hihi:
> 
> I've been doing a lot of variations on the same tank, getting into a safe rut. So maybe time is right to accept a new challenge in this hobby. :wink:
> 
> ...


Here's a good thread from UKAPS that will give you the basics to the Dutch style.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/crash-course-dutch-style-aquascaping.8713/

and this:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2710-Dutch-scaping-articles

go down and check out the ebay guide that is linked since I can't link to it on here


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Check out the AGA's Wim's talk on the topic of older Dutch style aquariums, best planted talk I've ever seen to date. "2001, Wim van Drongelen speaking on the Dutch aquascaping style"

He had many older pics.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Thanks ua hua & Tom for the links


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## MamaJu (Jun 4, 2013)

*Dutch Challenge*

Thank you for all the links and information on dutch style aquariums. I am a "square foot" gardener and the dutch style really appealed to me. I'm a newbie and feel that I have lots to learn. I really wanted to try the dutch style but was having a difficult time finding information. 

I was inspired so I started my own dutch challenge...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5250489#post5250489


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## zetvi (Jun 12, 2013)

MamaJu said:


> Thank you for all the links and information on dutch style aquariums. I am a "square foot" gardener and the dutch style really appealed to me. I'm a newbie and feel that I have lots to learn. I really wanted to try the dutch style but was having a difficult time finding information.
> 
> I have challenged myself to working through this dutch aquascape and am open to any constructive feedback and guidance.
> 
> ...


No red plants?


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## MamaJu (Jun 4, 2013)

Sorry for the poor photo  yes, there are 2 red plant varieties. There is an itty bitty red tiger lotus at the 1/3 bottom left. And I planted some red stem plants that I think are Ludwigia glandulosa at the 1/3 top right. Can you see it yet?

I'm not sure if it's the lighting, my iPad camera, or if I need to add ferts to the tank that makes it difficult to find the red plants. (I just set this tank up so I wasn't sure if adding ferts was ok). Having said that, should I rethink the location or plant choice?

I am open to any suggestions for plants selections and hopefully I can find it for a reasonable price.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

After searching for any info on the ways of trimming and pruning Dutch type scapes I came across this video. While it might make some of you squirm going to town to your nicely grown in tank with a pair of scissors this is required to keep a nice and manicured scape. I have came to the conclusion that the best info and videos I have been able to find are from the European aquarists. 







And another one. Don't expect to understand a word they say unless you happen to speak their language.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

ua hua said:


> And another one. Don't expect to understand a word they say unless you happen to speak their language.
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phkcm15ay4A


I understand both videos perfectly; it's Polish. :thumbsup:


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

hedge_fund said:


> I understand both videos perfectly; it's Polish. :thumbsup:


Well then you don't mind translating them do you:eek5: 

I'm just kidding. It's pretty easy to understand just by watching. I have found way more inspiration and beautiful tanks just by strictly watching videos that are from European hobbyists. Everybody thinks to watch the ADA videos even though they can't understand them but why not ones from Europe.

Here's another nice looking one.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

How come those Dutch tanks don't have the plants swaying in the water current? Do they usually have lower water flow? I'm impressed that the lower leafs don't have a spec of algae on them. The growth is very healthy over all, something that I struggle with. It doesn't look like they have very high lighting either, amazing tanks.


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## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

Hello!

I would love to have a Dutch tank in my livingroom, but is there anyone that have done this with smaller tanks? I am thinking 15 gallons and down?

If i am going to try a Dutch tank i have to do a compromise with my family:icon_lol:I dont want to be thrown out:icon_lol: i am on the edge already


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## Jnad (Aug 17, 2012)

I have a empty tank with dimmensions 60x30x30cm, is it too small? Is it better with a higher tank for a Dutch setup?


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

ua hua said:


> Well then you don't mind translating them do you:eek5:
> 
> I'm just kidding. It's pretty easy to understand just by watching. I have found way more inspiration and beautiful tanks just by strictly watching videos that are from European hobbyists. Everybody thinks to watch the ADA videos even though they can't understand them but why not ones from Europe.
> 
> ...



Yeah, European videos are usually my favorite since they do not mind telling you step by step exactly how they do it. I was watching a video the other day and the guy gave out his exact dosing regiment down the the gram per each fertilizer. Videos from other parts of the world tend to be more secretive and they do not reveal too much...I guess it's a culture thing or I just made a crazy assumption.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

FlyingHellFish said:


> How come those Dutch tanks don't have the plants swaying in the water current? Do they usually have lower water flow? I'm impressed that the lower leafs don't have a spec of algae on them. The growth is very healthy over all, something that I struggle with. It doesn't look like they have very high lighting either, amazing tanks.


I was thinking the same thing when watching them. A lot of the Dutch scapes have very little if any surface movement. I think that they probably have higher turnover than you think but the flow rate is less. I have what I would consider quite a bit of surface movement and the flow is pretty strong. I may try to split my return line to help reduce some flow but still move the same volume of water.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I would like to make the argument for the colorful planted aquarium that is not the Dutch planted aquarium. It strikes me that many people grow plants in an arrangement that they refer to as sort of Dutch which in fact have nothing in common with Dutch rules but simply is a shorthand for colorful. It almost seems like there is a whole school of aquascaping that involves blending hardscape and color contrast that is simply dismissed as not being Dutch enough and not being Japanese enough but is never recognized as being a school in and of itself.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

BruceF said:


> I would like to make the argument for the colorful planted aquarium that is not the Dutch planted aquarium. It strikes me that many people grow plants in an arrangement that they refer to as sort of Dutch which in fact have nothing in common with Dutch rules but simply is a shorthand for colorful. It almost seems like there is a whole school of aquascaping that involves blending hardscape and color contrast that is simply dismissed as not being Dutch enough and not being Japanese enough but is never recognized as being a school in and of itself.


I would agree that just because a tank has lots of colorful stem plants doesn't qualify it as a traditional Dutch scape. I personally like to have hard scape in my tank and I have no desire to have the back and sides of my tank covered so therefore I will never do a Dutch tank in the traditional sense but I like the idea behind a Dutch tank more so than I do the nature style. Maybe instead of calling it Dutch style it should be called American style or western style which is just a hybrid style with the Dutch influence. This side of the world needs to have its own style so why not intermix the styles of the other traditions such as nature and Dutch.


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

Jnad said:


> I have a empty tank with dimmensions 60x30x30cm, is it too small? Is it better with a higher tank for a Dutch setup?


I would say that if you're going for that Dutch inspired look then what we've been discussing is that you can "make it your own". No need to stick with the traditional rules but rather just arrange plant groupings with different colors & leaf textures in combination with a bit of hardscaping (or without...either way) should be done to your liking in any size tank. Experiment with what you have and see how it goes...enjoy the journey.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Not a Dutch scape by any means but it still has to be one of the most beautiful tanks I have seen.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

FlyingHellFish said:


> How come those Dutch tanks don't have the plants swaying in the water current? Do they usually have lower water flow? I'm impressed that the lower leafs don't have a spec of algae on them. The growth is very healthy over all, something that I struggle with. It doesn't look like they have very high lighting either, amazing tanks.


Mostly due to the old myth that it will drive off CO2.

This was common back before they used CO2 gas(you have a pronounced increase over the night and it builds up, they even used tight fitting lids to cap and catch the gas naturally built up over the night). Later, some felt it would drive off more of the CO2 that they added with gas tanks.

Well, if you have a lot of surface breaking, yea, but if you keep it right before breaking, then it works well.

I used Wet/drys before getting into planted tanks and have continued since.
I used spray bars placed out of view on the bottom.

This allowed a lot of current and CO2 rich water to come up through the plant beds and then to the weir box. I was using DIY CO2 back then, so this step was needed to get the most out of a limited CO2 supply and high light.

Today, I do not need that with a gas tank CO2 supply.

So you can do either and most do have more flow than you might think. They just hide it, that's one thing they are obsessive about. I use to add cork backs to my tanks. I wrote articles about it back in the 1990's.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

I know this is an older thread but I always love to see new videos so I found some more videos that may inspire or maybe just relaxing eye candy. You decide. 


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdr5ZF98KKg


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz6GuxUNKAA


Not exactly Dutch style but very nice nonetheless.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3U4Pm1hEBSw


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