# 120 gallon ADA "like"



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I love the aesthetics of ADA's rimless tank, they are also quite practical for the gardener. I liked the look of the stand as well. I bought a smaller 60p and really liked the over all display, I am not overly fond of the lily pipes and am surprised I have not broken them yet(2 so far).

For the 120 Gal, I wanted a shallower tank than the 24" depth. I chose 18" as a nice middle ground. The front to back depth was increased to 30". the seam and rimless bevel was done by a guy in LA, Charlie and the fish tank factory, Lemar also does a similar custom job upon request and they sell via LFS's if folks are interested ,Charlie will sell direct, but you need to pick it up.

His:
http://www.fishtankfactory.com/

Nice guy and took care of the needs.
2nd tank I've bought from him.

This one is the nicest.
The stand I got through fellow poster "janz", he's in the SCAPE club and his brother makes really well made stands. Really well made.

The wood, well, you likely know me well enough to know I collect and hunt for wood as I have for many years. 










I plan on doing hair grass belem mostly, or all C parva or a mix. The "Tree" will be exactly that. I will use Anubias much like a bonsai. This tree is well suited for this goal. the slope will have the tree on a hill of grass, with nice smaller Anubias petite as leaves. the tree will be partially out of the water with the leaves extending above the water line.
The tree will actually be on the other side and the over flow pre filter will hang on the side of the tank, not the rear.This makes access easier and the flow better IME.

There will be a Vortech pump on the same side of the pre filter as well. A sealed sump below.

I am thinking and leaning towards a West African theme fish wise.
Something that does not jump out. I'd wanted a pleco "heaven", the tank would be good for that, but the wood hath spoken. 
The other 60 cube will now be modified and converted for that goal.
that's another step towards the next phase, redoing the 180 Gal will be the last step. So 3 tanks to go till I have pretty much all my tanks like this and the 60p.

The next 60 cubes will be a different size: 36Lx24DX18"H, 67 Gal, but alot nicer dimension to work with.

Cubes are fun, but the 24x24' dimension is getting old, time for something different and time to get rid of the Glasscages tanks and stands. Selling them pays for an ADA like stand etc. 

Nice thing is, jnaz and Charlie both live close by, so I can get all the stuff on one trip.

I'd like to make a Cree LED lighting system with angled lighting and variable colors, with a dimmer....but I can wait a bit

I have the wide spread 4x 54 W in the Tek hood


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

Very nice so far Tom. The tek will look very clean with that set-up. looking forward to this one getting set-up. The stand is nice as well too bad there isn't a guy in Texas who does em...by the way l got the manzanita today and very happy thanks again.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i love that wood!


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Oh wow. That's sexy.


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## GitMoe (Aug 30, 2010)

OMG that tank is absolutely gorgeous. After another year of scaping and plant growing practice Im aiming for a similar setup. And another year of saving... Still can't find a custom builder on the east coast though. 

What substrate are you going to use?


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

Wow that's going to be pretty sweet. Gotta make my way up there to check it out in person


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## Kaie (Feb 23, 2011)

where do people get wood like that?


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Tom, the tank looks like it'll be amazing. Are you going to tie the anubias on the back side of the DW? That might give a really interesting effect.



Kaie said:


> where do people get wood like that?


From Tom.

-Andrew


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm in love with the dimensions on this one Tom. This is gonna be SICK!


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## crf529 (Jul 24, 2010)

That's an awesome sized tank, and i'm rather jealous of all the amazing wood you have to use!


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## dewalltheway (Jan 19, 2005)

Looks to be like another amazing setup! Subscribed.

Tom, did you have the TEK light already or did you purchase? Just curious because I was looking around at lights and the Catalina lights are half the cost of TEK lights and Fishneedit lights are half the cost of Catalina. Just wanted your take on why you chose TEK.


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## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

Looks like a quality project to follow.
mD


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

dewalltheway said:


> Tom, did you have the TEK light already or did you purchase? Just curious because I was looking around at lights and the Catalina lights are half the cost of TEK lights and Fishneedit lights are half the cost of Catalina. Just wanted your take on why you chose TEK.


I know you asked Tom but I'll take a stab since I just finished measuring PAR readings on my TEK. If you've seen all 3 fixtures in real life, you'd know the difference right away. TEK has super nice parabolic reflectors that are nicely spaced away from each bulb. The other 2 fixtures are cheaper for a reason. They don't have the super nice reflectors and the bulbs are cramped into the reflectors giving very little room for the light to actually reflect efficiently. The difference in the reflectors/ballast quality/& bulb choice makes or break the fixture. I wouldn't skimp on lighting from the get go since you'll only look to upgrade sooner than you know it down the line when going with a cheap fixture. The cheaper fixtures will still grow plants just fine, but not nearly as efficient as a TEK. 

Then again LEDs have been making big waves as of late. I've been seeing some promising results from them but they're still a little bit on the pricier side of the stream.


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## honda237 (Aug 11, 2010)

very nice, charlie is a nice guy to work with. I've ordered alot of equipment from him.
i love the demensions.


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## Loligo (Jan 25, 2011)

Gorgeous! I love that you chose an 18" depth.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

This is going to go very nice places . . .


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

dewalltheway said:


> Looks to be like another amazing setup! Subscribed.
> 
> Tom, did you have the TEK light already or did you purchase? Just curious because I was looking around at lights and the Catalina lights are half the cost of TEK lights and Fishneedit lights are half the cost of Catalina. Just wanted your take on why you chose TEK.


I like the look of the Tek and the out pout seems to be higher than the other brands, but ATI is likely higher........but also more $$$. You get what you pay for in most cases. FNIN are okay for the HQI, I did not like the T5's.

I will likely have a custom LED fixture made eventually.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

**Subscribed**


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

Tom any pics with the wood turned the other way?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

antbug said:


> Tom any pics with the wood turned the other way?


I'm too lazy to do it, maybe in a couple of weeks, if you are impatient, come over:icon_cool


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## Gunplameister (Jan 6, 2011)

dude looks great ...o and i freakin hate you lol, i had to bribe my wife for the 60p and tear down a tank, not that could not afford but evidently im not allowed to compare my tanks to her piles of shoes lol

cant wait to see what you do with this.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> I'm too lazy to do it, maybe in a couple of weeks, if you are impatient, come over:icon_cool


haha. I might just do that. I need some more Stauro as well.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Like *collectoritus*, that insidious disease that is pervasive in the planted hobby..........

*Wooditus *also can infect the aquarist and is often difficult to cure.

Adding too much wood to a scape can be very detrimental, like adding too much rock and stone work(Stoneritus- 2 disease meanings here).

Better to start simple and slowly adjust and make additions(if at all).

I have a huge pile of wood sitting here, but only 1 piece is in the tank, and I'm happy with just that alone.
Do one thing and do it right.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Stoneritus.... hummm I wonder what that second meaning is other than rock collecting?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

speedie408 said:


> Stoneritus.... hummm I wonder what that second meaning is other than rock collecting?


Too much rock in the tank, same sort of thing :icon_cool


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

The funny thing is that l can control Wooditus and stoneritus very well but l choose to let myself go, it's much easier 

Who do you have in mind for making your custom led fixture?


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## wearsbunnyslippers (Dec 6, 2007)

looks awesome!

how many tanks will you have running with this one?


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

Looking great Tom, can't wait to see this tank build. 

I saw this tank and stand in person, and can attest to its quality. Both tank and stand are amazing!! 

And +1 for Charlie. Dealt with him also, great guy to work with.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Too much rock in the tank, same sort of thing :icon_cool


I guess I was thinking more down the lines of our old friends, Cheech n Chong. :biggrin:


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

Wow, that tank looks really well made and the footprint is awesome.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> (Stoneritus- 2 disease meanings here).


 
hah! nice!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

wearsbunnyslippers said:


> looks awesome!
> 
> how many tanks will you have running with this one?


5 is the in house limit, none in the sleeping area or where food is made, bathroom etc.

One is an ADA 60p, that's set, this one is now set.

That leaves the other 3, two 60 gal cubes and a 180gal.

These will be sold and then replaced with a similar stand made by the Jon's brother(same as the 2 ADA and ADA like tanks above) and the same tank builder, Charlie.

They will be 36Lx24Dx18T(67gal), the larger 180 will be 72Lx30Dx18T 

I'll sell the old tanks and the stands.
Rimless starfire tanks are fairly easy to sell with a nice solid oak stand.

I'd like to have all LED lighting, but need to experiment around and test a few things. I want a blue, red and white light with controllable dimmer for each.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

plantbrain said:


> 5 is the in house limit, none in the sleeping area or where food is made, bathroom etc.


nice rule..
expecting more pictures here..


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## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> They will be 36Lx24Dx18T(67gal), the larger 180 will be 72Lx30Dx18T


 
I do like this format!
The 18" dimension works well imo.
Looking forward to seeing these displays also!

Also Have you looked at the cannon leds from eco?
mD


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

mountaindew said:


> I do like this format!
> The 18" dimension works well imo.
> Looking forward to seeing these displays also!
> 
> ...


Nope, to be honest, I am thinking of what my personal light goals really are........so I have not read or looked around that much yet.

I've seen many nice DIY Builds and all.....plenty to be viewed on Reefcentral etc.

I'll get around to it:hihi:


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Nope, to be honest, I am thinking of what my personal light goals really are........so I have not read or looked around that much yet.
> 
> I've seen many nice DIY Builds and all.....plenty to be viewed on Reefcentral etc.
> 
> I'll get around to it:hihi:


I like to browse reefcentral to sometimes, just to check out their massive tank builds and all the cool gadgets reefers get to play around. I also noticed that reefers are more advanced in LED then us planted geeks and cichlid folks still only use them as moon lights:hihi:.

Looking forward to updates because journals like these are rare.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> I like to browse reefcentral to sometimes, just to check out their massive tank builds and all the cool gadgets reefers get to play around. I also noticed that reefers are more advanced in LED then us planted geeks and cichlid folks still only use them as moon lights:hihi:.
> 
> Looking forward to updates because journals like these are rare.


Ha that's for sure! I love looking through threads at RC, especially the several hundred page thread on LED lighting. Reefers blow us freshwater guys out of the water when it comes to equipment, LED lighting, and anything and everything DIY. I sent Tom this picture of a fixture I saw on RC recently. It's very neat! Rails are adjustable, and each invidivual LED is adjustable for angle as well. Just imagine this with different colors on separate drivers, all individually dimmable! That would be the ultimate light. 

It looks like it was made to go in a canopy, but you could easily make it look good as a bare fixture


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Reef folks also dig a nice money pit for themselves.
But that's what hobbies are for to many of us:hihi::icon_idea

Still, reefs are far far worse on the wallet than a planted tank.
I like to get a bit more out of it. I do not mind some DIY projects, but I prefer to have folks make something nice for me than fiddling and messing with stuff, been there done this enough in my day.
I can and have changed a 1/2 dozen transmissions on my trucks, but.......I pay to have someone do it these days. If you do not have the $, then DIY is a much more interesting option suddenly. I'm in no rush either, patience is a virtue in this hobby and rare.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

jcardona1 said:


> Ha that's for sure! I love looking through threads at RC, especially the several hundred page thread on LED lighting. Reefers blow us freshwater guys out of the water when it comes to equipment, LED lighting, and anything and everything DIY. I sent Tom this picture of a fixture I saw on RC recently. It's very neat! Rails are adjustable, and each invidivual LED is adjustable for angle as well. Just imagine this with different colors on separate drivers, all individually dimmable! That would be the ultimate light.
> 
> It looks like it was made to go in a canopy, but you could easily make it look good as a bare fixture


That's really impressive. Very clean. [Way out of my own DIY capabilities!]


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Redid the hood, all nice a pretty white. The bars as well.
They blend in well and do not distract from the scene.

Jason B had mentioned he chose the U shape and the side mounts for his to not distract from the photographs. Good idea, but the side mount would not look good for my taste here. I can place a white backboard if need be in the rear, but in general, they will not stand out that much.

A ceiling suspension is best obviously:icon_idea

I like the all white clean look.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

looking good, I also agree ceiling looks the best. Is the stand white as well? looks a bit pinkish or maybe it's just the camera.


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## prjct92eh2 (Apr 8, 2008)

Very nice Tom. I too have been following some of the LED builds on Reef Central and on here. I will probably make the switch towards the end of the year.

Also cool to see a Vortech in a planted tank. I love the sleek, unobtrusive design of them, and they really seem to be able to move water, but the price is a bit high for my tastes. What mode do you plan to set it on?


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

*A few questions*



plantbrain said:


> I love the aesthetics of ADA's rimless tank, they are also quite practical for the gardener.
> 
> For the 120 Gal, I wanted a shallower tank than the 24" depth. I chose 18" as a nice middle ground. The front to back depth was increased to 30".


What was the reason for wanting the shallower tank? Easier planting? Better light penetration? Or for the layout of the room the shallower tank just looked better. Or so you could use thinner glass without bowing? (by the way, what is the thickness of the glass)



plantbrain said:


> The tree will actually be on the other side and the over flow pre filter will hang on the side of the tank, not the rear.This makes access easier and the flow better IME.
> 
> There will be a Vortech pump on the same side of the pre filter as well. A sealed sump below.


Why did you chose to not have the tank drilled for the overflow since you are planning on using a sump? wouldn't this be cleaner and easier? Having an overflow prefilter having on the side of the tank would be more distracting, as well as more trouble as the hang on overflow are more prone to failure and not regaining siphon after power outage, etc so more likely to cause a tank flood. 



plantbrain said:


> I have the wide spread 4x 54 W in the Tek hood


On a tank 30" deep 4X54w will be enough? Is that becasue your light is wide spread or because it is a shallow tank. If the tank was 24" high would the same light be enough?

Sorry for all the questions. I am having a custom tank 46" X 26" X 20~22" tank built here as well and planning on using a sump (36X18X20 tank). Therefore I am considering how to plumb the tank, with either an internal overflow, glass-holes overflow, external overflow (side or back) or Hangon Overflow. Though at reefcentral I was recommended against the Hangon model as due to flooding and the glass-holes model due to noise. 

Thomas in Taiwan


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

!shadow! said:


> looking good, I also agree ceiling looks the best. Is the stand white as well? looks a bit pinkish or maybe it's just the camera.


It's the quartz home lighting.

the stand is slightly grey actually, not as grey as ADA


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

prjct92eh2 said:


> Very nice Tom. I too have been following some of the LED builds on Reef Central and on here. I will probably make the switch towards the end of the year.
> 
> Also cool to see a Vortech in a planted tank. I love the sleek, unobtrusive design of them, and they really seem to be able to move water, but the price is a bit high for my tastes. What mode do you plan to set it on?


Does not matter the mode much, lagoon or reef crest etc.
I typically use lagoon or continuous.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

tcampbell said:


> What was the reason for wanting the shallower tank? Easier planting? Better light penetration? Or for the layout of the room the shallower tank just looked better. Or so you could use thinner glass without bowing? (by the way, what is the thickness of the glass)


1/2" thick, ~13mm
Nicer scape really, nicer dimension.
Nothing to do with better light penetration. 
That is really a non issue with the type of lighting and the distances involved here. I typically raise the light up 1 meter from the substrate, so the light is fully adjustable for height.

Glass thickness is a concern for cost and weight, but 24"x24" is fine with this same thickness for this tank.



> Why did you chose to not have the tank drilled for the overflow since you are planning on using a sump?
> 
> 
> > Because they take up a lot of space inside the tank and detract from the look. I can move the add on overflow anywhere I chose should I decide to redo the tank in the future.
> ...


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> No, and it's also louder, the type of overflows I use a very quiet and easy to keep silent.


Not louder, quieter, if you take the time to do it right. The Herbie method is great for making overflows dead silent. The Beananimal is even better. I went for the Beananimal with my 190g. Gave it a test run last night and you wouldn't even know the tank has a filter running, it's dead silent. 

But I agree, vertical overflows are a waste of space. I went for a small horizontal overflow. Much better design, and no wasted space. Here's the Beananimal on my 190g, you could see how small the overflow box is. 

This setup would be hard to do though on a tank with a clear background though. Would be impossible to hide all the plumbing.


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## feral13 (Jan 17, 2006)

Subscribed. I dont want to miss this one.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

How would you build a sealed sump?


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

great looking tank!


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

plantbrain said:


> 1/2" thick, ~13mm
> Glass thickness is a concern for cost and weight, but 24"x24" is fine with this same thickness for this tank.


Thanks. Your answers and explaination as aways are very helpful as is your experience.

What level of bowing do you get with that thickness. I have seen a few 12mm tanks at 48X24X24 that bow quiet a bit and a few at the same dimensions with the same thickness of glass that have no noticable bowing at all. Not sure how this is possible. 



plantbrain said:


> Because they take up a lot of space inside the tank and detract from the look. I can move the add on overflow anywhere I chose should I decide to redo the tank in the future.
> The type of overflows I use a very quiet and easy to keep silent.


I agree that they can be distracting and vertical overflows take up too much space. However versions like the Elos design really take up little space, and a horizontal oversflow even less space (especially if they are external - but then you can't push the tank close to the wall). I know they can be distracting and difficult to hide if you have a clear back on the tank. Which is one reason I would rather not have them, but the benifits of the sump have convinced me. 
Therefore I am very interested in this HOB overflow you have and how you use it as a perfilter. Can you show pictures if you have time? Your filtration will be sump and canister?






plantbrain said:


> But the sump only has a few gallons of buffer head water before it runs dry, so neither case will add much water to the floor, and the tank's rim distance between normal and when the sump runs dry is pretty close, so in reality, not much issue here.
> 
> In other words, this failure will not dump the entire contents on the floor of the tank. That's what many seem to imply and it is simply a myth and not the least bit true.
> 
> Common sense and care go a long way here.


Understand fully. If the return section in the sump is setup correctly, and the siphon fails, the biggest issue would be a burned out pump and the amount of water in the return section when pump power was off. after that no more water can go to the tank, but the pump will run dry and burn out (costly but not flooding you house).

I live in a concrete and brick home with Solid marble floors (common in Asia) so the water on the floor is not much of an issue. Just a little mopping up. Burned out eheim 1262 though can be.

However keeping this section smaller would also mean that you need to top off the water in the sump more often due to evaporation. Correct?




plantbrain said:


> You say to the person with a PAR light meter
> 
> The tank is 30 front to back depth, not top to bottom, and yes, the light spread is very intense and well spread.
> 
> ...


With that wide a fixture and the great bulb spacing I can understand why it would would a lot better. What fixtures I have been finding here for the tank aren't spaced as well and more crowded. 

121x33x5cm for 6X54w
121x24x5cm for 4X54w
My plan was to use the 6X54 and just use 4 of the bulbs to space it a little more though still not much. The depth (front to back) of my tank will be 24" so not and deep as your but it was planned to be higher, 22" high which was why I asked.



plantbrain said:


> Make sure the sump has a wet/dry chamber so you can recapture the CO2.
> If not, you will suffer.
> Reefcentral will never tell you that:thumbsdow
> 
> A sealed wet/dry chamber acts like a secondary CO2 reactors, if it is vented to the air, the CO2 will be lost, if the wet/dry chamber is sealed, the water will have the CO2 redissolve back and exit out of the bottom of the chamber and down into the sump with the CO2 ppm still high and present in the water.


By a wet dry chamber do you mean similiar to a trinkle filter running through bioballs? http://thedesignspace.net/MT2archive...s/fish/197.jpg
Is it only the section that the water enters the sump that has to be sealed or the whole sump? I assume just te first section from your statement below. However, if sealed how do you deal with cleaning, etc?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/108308-sump-design-180-gallon-tank.html 
you said:
_"You need a sealed section where the pipe comes in.
Otherwise you will lose all the gas(CO2) that is what sumps/wet/dry chambers are designed to do. If you use a wet/dry chamber, all you have to do is seal up the chamber.

A sponge prefilter and sponge secondary filter in the sump post wet/dry sealed chamber are plenty. Do not simply have the pipe come into a bag filter and then degas, you'll lose all the dissolved CO2.

Basically the wet/dry chamber acts like a large CO2 reactor, it'll simply redissolve rather than being degassed out.
This + raising the overflow to about 2-3" drop will resolve about 95% of any degassing issues with wet/dry vs canister filters etc."_


Since I am having the sump built for me I can do it any way I want, I would rather do it correct from the start. Do you have pictures of the design you plan to use?




plantbrain said:


> There are always arguments for and against some designs.
> 
> Overflows can still clog and leak, this occurs with in tank built ins as well.
> Or more likely, you will over fill your tank and the sump will over flow onto the floor. This can spill far more water.
> ...


IN my situation, this is not my home as well, so I can't go the plumber route. However I agree that a properly designed sump with plenty of room to handle the back flow with power outage and not overfilled during running, as well as an overflow with a failsafe (Herbie or Beananimal design) will help a lot in preventing an overflow of water on your floor

Thanks again and I look forward to your tank's progress as always.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

jcardona1 said:


> Not louder, quieter, if you take the time to do it right. The Herbie method is great for making overflows dead silent. The Beananimal is even better. I went for the Beananimal with my 190g. Gave it a test run last night and you wouldn't even know the tank has a filter running, it's dead silent.
> 
> But I agree, vertical overflows are a waste of space. I went for a small horizontal overflow. Much better design, and no wasted space. Here's the Beananimal on my 190g, you could see how small the overflow box is.
> 
> This setup would be hard to do though on a tank with a clear background though. Would be impossible to hide all the plumbing.


As if I plan to put all that rubbish on the side of my rimless clean looking tank

Noooo thanks.

Trade offs.
Always something.

With the CPR, I can at least move it, and it takes up min space, take it out if I ever want do a photo shoot etc.

The built overflows are nice if they are outside the tankroud:


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

IWANNAGOFAST said:


> How would you build a sealed sump?


Duct tape the basturd. Seal up the air leaks and vents, the rim on the top etc


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

Any updates? I know I should just come by, but I'm lazy.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Well, tank is up and running, hell frozen over..........I even planted it but th wood is not planted with Anubias petite just yet.

I've decided to go with an African theme, found some nice small barbs and then some S brichardi and a double trunk elephant nose. I think I'll be able to have the Fire red shrimp in here with the Synodonitus, they have not eaten to the RCS in the quarantine. If not, then Amanos will do just fine.

I'll post some pics in a day or so.
Filter is very quiet and the flow pattern is excellent.

Lighting is ideal, wood did not move when filled.

Barbus hulstaerti seem like a nice fish for the theme. Might be a bit timid but the elephant nose seems not to mess with most fish.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

tcampbell said:


> What level of bowing do you get with that thickness. I have seen a few 12mm tanks at 48X24X24 that bow quiet a bit and a few at the same dimensions with the same thickness of glass that have no noticable bowing at all. Not sure how this is possible.


No bowing I can see here.



> I agree that they can be distracting and vertical overflows take up too much space. However versions like the Elos design really take up little space, and a horizontal oversflow even less space (especially if they are external - but then you can't push the tank close to the wall). I know they can be distracting and difficult to hide if you have a clear back on the tank. Which is one reason I would rather not have them, but the benifits of the sump have convinced me.
> Therefore I am very interested in this HOB overflow you have and how you use it as a perfilter. Can you show pictures if you have time? Your filtration will be sump and canister?


Well Jose's example in this thread is a good example if you do not mind this stuff, but it can be placed in a weir box outside the tank instead also.
Beananimal's design is really good and should offer folks what they want/need for a planted tank or a reef etc.



> Understand fully. If the return section in the sump is setup correctly, and the siphon fails, the biggest issue would be a burned out pump and the amount of water in the return section when pump power was off. after that no more water can go to the tank, but the pump will run dry and burn out (costly but not flooding you house).


It can happen, but has not happened to me and after 35 years in the hobby, I really am less concerned about a cheap pump that I might pay 30-60$ for.
If I toast one once every 20-40 years, I'm okay with that.



> However keeping this section smaller would also mean that you need to top off the water in the sump more often due to evaporation. Correct?


Yes and less head room for backsiphoning. Bigger sumps are generally better.



> With that wide a fixture and the great bulb spacing I can understand why it would would a lot better. What fixtures I have been finding here for the tank aren't spaced as well and more crowded.
> 121x33x5cm for 6X54w
> 121x24x5cm for 4X54w
> My plan was to use the 6X54 and just use 4 of the bulbs to space it a little more though still not much. The depth (front to back) of my tank will be 24" so not and deep as your but it was planned to be higher, 22" high which was why I asked.


This is a good option.
I use a 8x 54 bulb fixture, but only use the outside 2 sets of bulbs.



> By a wet dry chamber do you mean similiar to a trinkle filter running through bioballs? http://thedesignspace.net/MT2archive...s/fish/197.jpg


Yes, but sealed so no air exchanges with the outside. This captures any degassed CO2.



> Is it only the section that the water enters the sump that has to be sealed or the whole sump? I assume just te first section from your statement below. However, if sealed how do you deal with cleaning, etc?


Just the first section where the water and air/CO2 etc crashes in to the sump area, after it exits, no need to seal since there's very little degassing occurring farther down from the chamber and this is always left open for easy access etc.


> Since I am having the sump built for me I can do it any way I want, I would rather do it correct from the start. Do you have pictures of the design you plan to use?


Just take a wet/dry filter and plug up the holes with tape where outside air can exchange. 




> as well as an overflow with a failsafe (Herbie or Beananimal design) will help a lot in preventing an overflow of water on your floor
> 
> Thanks again and I look forward to your tank's progress as always.


I've never had one fail on me, I have 5 of them running and no issues to date.
Maintain them and keep them clean, if you neglect stuff, well, the beananimal design is likely more adequate.

As I said, there's some trade offs for some designs and aesthetics play a role for me, they might not for you or someone else.

Cost and DIY, labor etc might also play a role for some folks.
I've done enough DIY in my lifetime as it is........


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

Tom, can I request a picture of your sump?


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

Where do you get your light suspension kits?


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

Freaking awsome from what ive seen so far. Please post more pics.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Where do you get your light suspension kits?


Make em.
Tek has the wire suspension and I painted the fixture all white to not distract from the white wall.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You can see the duct tape around the lip of the sump.
A simple CO2 system, Victor reg, clippard in line check valve, burket solenoid, and Nupro valve with vernier micrometer handle. Feed into the intake of the needle wheel and into the return. Lots of sponge and bioballs. Clear PVC return.

I'll be getting a lot petite anubias in a few days and will tie them to the wood.


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## Hussain (Nov 17, 2009)

one of the best scape's, looking forward to see that grass filling ....


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks for the sump shot Tom! This looks amazing. I need to make my way up there again and check it out.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Subscribed.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

Looking really good Tom. I like the all white look.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Hussain said:


> one of the best scape's, looking forward to see that grass filling ....


Belem grows rather quick for me.
So in 1-2 month's, it should be filled in.
The Anubias attaching will take longer however.
They only look nicer with time and the roots hang down etc.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

IWANNAGOFAST said:


> Thanks for the sump shot Tom! This looks amazing. I need to make my way up there again and check it out.


It's not a complex tank in any way, I think the Vortech MP20 is the most complex thing I have.

Fish community will be unusual and complex.......but little else.

This is what the tank looks like not for a photo shoot, rather, during it's operation. Just the discrete intakes and returns and the Vortech. 

I'd considered making a much steeper slope towards the rear, but decided against it.

I'll add the pure line of Fire shrimp I have 1st, then the Barbus, then a few others and the elephant nose at the end.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

jcardona1 said:


> Looking really good Tom. I like the all white look.


I was a little bit hesitant initially, the girlfriend did not like the idea, but does now it's done and finished. I'll redo most of my lights this way I think in the coming months.

I've thought about using the fixture for the 180 and using the LED's and painting it all white as well.

I'll be selling the 60 Cubes and the 180 soon. So I'll part out some stuff and remove it and then keep the upgraded equipment when I move. I'd like to get a house sometime by summer, early fall. 

If so, and I fine a nice spot inside the home, I'll likely place a weir box for a similar sump as you have for your tank.

Then suspend from the ceiling instead of the bars.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Looks real good! If there was ever a piece of wood you could build a scape around that is it.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

houseofcards said:


> Looks real good! If there was ever a piece of wood you could build a scape around that is it.


No, I got plenty of pieces that could apply too


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> No, I got plenty of pieces that could apply too


Your bad!


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

lol houseofcards. I can't imagine buying a house in cali $_$. Gonna buy a house in the summer as well but i'm in texas so it's a bit cheaper. I like how you painted the entire co2 cylinder white to match the entire look. Also you seem to have the same problem with the hinges of the stand doors as with mines and that is making sure they are even from top to bottom and no gaps which we both have. They're little but barely noticeable unless you really look closely. Looks like this one is going to be easy to trim when the time comes.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Cant wait to see this progress! Is this going to have multiple species of plants, then slowly merge into 3 species?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Caton said:


> Cant wait to see this progress! Is this going to have multiple species of plants, then slowly merge into 3 species?


2 species of plant only


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## penpal (Mar 27, 2010)

just the wood alone makes the tank stunning. :3 makes me wish I had big tank.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

As always tom, the tank looks great. What pump are you using on the tank and is it quiet?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Pentair/rainbow plastics lifeguard, I think it's the 3000 model.
The Mag danners are not bad either if you wanted to add their needle wheel impeller for a CO2 diffusion method.

These also use about 1/2 the electric that the Iwaki and other external pumps do, and I they add some heat to the water which is good most of the year for me.

The Ehiem pumps are good as well. Best to match the flow you want with the max possible smaller pump vs a larger pump that you have to back down with a valve. That waste energy, but offers some flow control.

Likewise, the needle wheel impeller reduces the flow some, but also adds less energy for another pump to do that job. 

This tank is quieter than the 180 which still has the external Iwaki and canister filters. I just finished the wet/dry filter today for that tank, so I'll yank most of the OC in line filters and plug the bulk heads, etc. I hate turning the valves, they are stiff..and then removing and cleaning the pleated filters from Ocean Clears.

All my other tanks are nice and clean with wet/drys and I spend virtually no time cleaning them and fish health, O2 is consistently higher.

I can get the heater out of the tank, the needle wheel and the prefilter sponge. But, I have a hang on prefilter overflow and a return pipe and I save about 2x as much energy, no drop off in flow rates as the filter ages/clogs etc.

Also, no evaporation lines or film on the surface.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I've gotten most of the same type of filter ready for the 180 that I have on this tank(120 Gal). I'll then compare old DO levels with the new and then see how they compare with this 120 gal tank.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

Any updates?


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Looking like an interesting project, I expect nothing less from you obviously. Going for that "lone ancient tree in a field of green" I see. Should look very nice. This photo doesn't do your scape justice though cause it's not one of those ancient leafless trees with hundreds of limbs.










Only critique would be the slope as it gets towards the trunk, I'd make it a little higher. Just my perspective though.


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## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

waiting patiently for new photos.


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## BradC (Dec 22, 2010)

home grown said:


> waiting patiently for new photos.


+1.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

home grown said:


> waiting patiently for new photos.


I have not acquired everything for it just yet, maybe in a month or two.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I redid the hard scape today, I am actually pleased, (RARE).

I have several new tanks this month I am redoing for clients and decided to use this tank and the massive wood I have s a guinea pig.

It's a simple style, but a hybrid between common garden borders, Dutch style and collectoritus disease.

The water is still murky, so no pics just yet. 
Hades frozen as I also started up the reef seagrass project as well.

I'll add a nice little nano overflow on my 60p as well later.

3 Tanks in one day, amazing.


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## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> I painted the fixture all white to not distract from the white wall.


Did you paint them with a special heat resistant paint or something that would stick to the metal already on the fixture?


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

the tank + stand already look so good, but the piece of wood in there puts it over the top


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## Martin Schellinck (Jun 17, 2006)

Just found this thread, not sure how it slipped past me for this long. I definitely like the increased width of the tank. In my opinion, ADA tanks are a bit shallow and can make it difficult to fit the hardscape, foreground, midground, and background plants all in properly. Increasing the width definitely allows for more room to increase the depth of field. Looking forward to seeing the new scape. I'll be picking up some wood from you 3 years down the road after I finish up school and move back to CA.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I'll start a new thread. I redid the tank today, need to finish replanting:


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## Martin Schellinck (Jun 17, 2006)

Impressive, I like this much more than the previous scape. How many individual pieces of wood are involved in the scape?


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Can't wait till its completely planted!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

cool!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Martin Schellinck said:


> Impressive, I like this much more than the previous scape. How many individual pieces of wood are involved in the scape?


Maybe 12 or more.

I am working on the rows, I will add the weed Hydrothrix in here. I have a few others also, but they need to fill out and one is fairly rare plant I like.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Big hack and large expansion of the UG. Tank did well for being away 2 weeks. Pics will be posted tomorrow sometime.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I spread the UG out and placed it as the main theme for the foreground. 
The E hydropiper came in mush. I'll try again.

I decided to bring out the wonderful Ludwigia sphaerocarpa(old name incorrect: L. pilosa) again for it's own row, this time flanked by UG's bright green grassy color on both sides. 
*
There's a lot of dust settling on the plants after such a massive trim fest.*

This will clear up after a week or so. I'll fluff and preen plants and lightly vacuum off the mulm this weekend. 

I still need to attend the rear groups, I removed some species and then am filling in others like the Ludwigia senegalensis. I will expand the L. tornado variety more and move a few others around. I removed the Rotala "sunset". It will have a permanent home in my 180 Gal and not be trimmed so often. 
I also returned 3 nice Fissidens covered branches. R vietnam is also growing at a break neck pace. Nice plant, but may grow too fast for this tank. I tried to kill it a few times, it keeps worming it's way back.

I've removed the Buce's for the time being, they are in emergent culture for now.
I'll add them back at some point once I figure out "Where", likely in the back Right corner. 
Or on the 60p ADA tank and phase out the Anubias.

The white Anubias has doubled in size over the last month or so. 
Have plans for that one. I still owe Greg a plant from 10-12 years ago, so he will have the 1st dibs if I sell any.



















From the couch:


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## Jonnywhoop (May 30, 2012)

would you mind listing out your plant names? this tank is porn :x


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## Nugget (Feb 29, 2012)

This tank was from the start my inspiration to go planted!!

What is your lighting,bulbs used and lighting schedule please?


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

looking real good, the colors coming from the tank are great


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Jonnywhoop said:


> would you mind listing out your plant names? this tank is porn :x


Not interested in hitting moving targets.....this is because the list changes every month or so.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Nugget said:


> This tank was from the start my inspiration to go planted!!
> 
> What is your lighting,bulbs used and lighting schedule please?


Refer back to the pages prior. 

ATI 8x 54W with 8 hour light period and about 0-75% for the 1st and last 2 hour blocks. Mostly ATI blue specials, URI red sun, Gieseman AF's, GE starcoat, and maybe a red sun AquaWave.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

In 1-2 months, the UG should be really filled in well and bright green, this should contrast very well.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

2 weeks away and she looks great. What happened to your ET?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

antbug said:


> 2 weeks away and she looks great. What happened to your ET?


Removed the weed.
Sitting outside and I have some emergent growth going as well.
I just had plenty of the UG and wanted of fill the space with more even bright green color for the foreground.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

You've been away so long you posted this on your old thread instead of this one. LOL

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149265


I thought that it looked like it was a few pages shorter than the last time I looked at it....like 93 pages shorter. Either way I love seeing the pics.


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

Wow what a beauty you have there! My favorite part is the way the plant rows fill between the DW along the substrate. Very neat.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

do you still grow mini glosso?

what are the conditions needed to grow it?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Green_Flash said:


> do you still grow mini glosso?
> 
> what are the conditions needed to grow it?


Not yet, I had it, the rummies destroyed it and the UG.
I removed them and will add the Elatine hydropiper back in another couple of weeks perhaps.


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