# Recurrent BGA/Cyano - How to prevent in a newly set up tank???



## PinkPoodle (Jan 16, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I’m pretty new to planted tanks, but have tried setting up a few very simple ones only to have them be overtaken by BGA/cyano shortly afterwards. I’m so frustrated! So before/as I give it another try, I was hoping for a bit of advice from you?

*Firstly, many of the plants that I’d like to put into my new tank will be coming from my old, cyano-infested one.* *How do I clean them/kill the cyano that’s on them so that it doesn’t just transfer to the new tank?* A diluted bleach dip? Hydrogen peroxide? Dosing with erythromycin for a period? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'm tearing this old tank down, and there are no fish in it, so anything goes that won't kill the plants.


Secondly, I’m looking for prevention strategies for the tank itself, which will be set up as follows:

10 gallons
Temperature: 78F
Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate: 0.25/0/0 PPM (tap water has trace ammonia)
PH: 8.5
Lighting: 2 x 15W T5NO (normal, not high output), 6500K color temp 
8 hour interrupted photo period (4 hours on + 2 hours off + 4 hours on again, on a timer daily)

Inert gravel + 2 or 3 Seachem Root Tabs
Flora: 4-5 Water wisteria (12” tall plants), 3 micro swords (small, 4” tall), 1 small Amazon sword (4-6” tall, possibly not that healthy, handfull of java moss
Fauna: NONE, until these algae issues are sorted out!!!!!!
Maintenance: 75% + water change daily if ammonia readings rise???
My planted tanks have never cycled before cyano struck, and I don’t have access to any cycled tanks from which to borrow “seeded” media. *I’m concerned that the low/zero nitrate condition in my tanks may be inducing this cyano bloom?* *So… I’m wondering how I can add nitrates to my tank, in the form of fertilizers?* Otherwise I may never get over this BGA hurdle? I live in a small-ish and not very aquarium-minded city, so I have trouble getting exotic/specialized fertilizers for my tanks, For example, I have NO idea where I would get the powdered fertilizers suggested in Tom Barr’s EI method, though this sounds ideal. *Any suggestions for readily available, commercial planted tank fertilizers that could provide some nitrates? I have access to most of the Seachem range in one of our local pet stores…* 
Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading!!


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Seachem has a nitrate fertilizer. There are a number of vendors on this forum that sell the powdered stuff. Whether it can be shipped to Canada or not, I don't know but you could ask. You could check the SnS for Canada, there may be a vendor there that could get it to you cheaper. Here is a thread that may give you a focus for a search in your area.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170736


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Any of the treatments you are thinking of can kill BGA. 
Erythro is easiest on the plants. 
H2O2 is also not too harsh. 
Bleach can kill plants if it is not handled right. 

Once you get the tank set up, and reasonably clean of BGA start the fishless cycle. This ought to provide enough nitrogen to keep the BGA away. 
Here is the fishless cycle:
Fishless Cycle
You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia, which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.

Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though. 

The best source of ammonia is... Ammonia. In a bottle. 

Using fish is a delicate balance of water changes to keep the toxins low (try not to hurt the fish) but keep feeding the bacteria. It can take 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank this way, and can cost the lives of several fish. When you are done you have grown a small bacteria population that still needs to be nurtured to increase its population. You cannot, at the end of a fish-in cycle, fully stock your tank. 

The fishless/ammonia cycle takes as little as 3 weeks, and can be even faster, grows a BIG bacteria population, and does not harm fish in any way. 

Both methods give you plenty of practice using your test kit. 

How to cycle a tank the fishless way: 

1) Make sure all equipment is working, fill with water that has all the stuff you will need for the fish you intend to keep. Dechlorinator, minerals for GH or KH adjustments, the proper salt mix, if you are creating a brackish or marine tank. These bacteria require a few minerals, so make sure the GH and KH is at least 3 German degrees of hardness. They grow best when the pH is in the 7s. Good water movement, fairly warm (mid to upper 70sF), no antibiotics or other toxins. 

2) (Optional)Add some source of the bacteria. Used filter media from a cycled tank is best, gravel or some decorations or a few plants... even some water, though this is the poorest source of the beneficial bacteria. 
Bacteria in a bottle can be a source of these bacteria, but make sure you are getting Nitrospiros spp of bacteria. All other ‘bacteria in a bottle’ products have the wrong bacteria. (This step is optional. The proper bacteria will find the tank even if you make no effort to add them). Live plants may bring in these bacteria on their leaves and stems. 

3) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This is the non-sudsing, no surfactants, no-fragrance-added ammonia that is often found in a hardware store, discount stores, and sometimes in a grocery store. The concentration of ammonia may not be the same in all bottles. Try adding 5 drops per 10 gallons, then allowing the filter to circulate for about an hour, then test. If the reading isn't up to 5 ppm, add a few more drops and test again. (Example, if your test reads only 2 ppm, then add another 5 drops) Some ammonia is such a weak dilution you may need to add several ounces to get a reading. 

4) Test for ammonia daily, and add enough to keep the reading at 5 ppm. You probably will not have to add much, if any, in the first few days, unless you added a good amount of bacteria to jump start the cycle. 

5) Several days after you start, begin testing for nitrites. When the nitrites show up, reduce the amount of ammonia you add so the test shows 3ppm. (Add only half as much ammonia as you were adding in part 4) Add this reduced amount daily from now until the tank is cycled. 
If the nitrites get too high (over 5 ppm), do a water change. The bacteria growth is slowed because of the high nitrites. Reducing the level of ammonia to 3 ppm should prevent the nitrite from getting over 5 ppm. 

6) Continue testing, and adding ammonia daily. The nitrates will likely show up about 2 weeks after you started. Keep monitoring, and watch for 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite and rising nitrates. 

7) Once the 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites shows up it may bounce around a little bit for a day or two. Be patient. Keep adding the ammonia; keep testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. 
When it seems done you can challenge the system by adding more than a regular dose of ammonia, and the bacteria should be able to remove the ammonia and nitrite by the next day. 
If you will not be adding fish right away continue to add the ammonia to keep the bacteria fed. 

8) When you are ready to add the fish, do at least one water change, and it may take a couple of them, to reduce the nitrate to safe levels (as low as possible, certainly below 10 ppm) I have seen nitrate approaching 200 ppm by the end of this fishless cycle in a non-planted tank. 

9) You can plant a tank that is being cycled this way at any point during the process. If you plant early, the plants will be well rooted, and better able to handle the disruption of the water change. 
Yes, the plants will use some of the ammonia and the nitrates. They are part of the nitrogen handling system, part of the biofilter, they are working for you. Some plants do not like high ammonia, though. If a certain plant dies, remove it, and only replace it after the cycle is done. 

10) The fishless cycle can also be used when you are still working out the details of lighting, plants and other things. If you change the filter, make sure you keep the old media for several weeks or a month. Most of the bacteria have been growing in this media (sponges, floss etc).


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## mommabear1007 (Nov 8, 2011)

i feel for ya, that stuff is disastrous. I used erythro to kill it. I think NO3 might help you too. I had a hard time finding an exact reason as to what causes cyano. Poor water circulation, low nitrates, and imbalance of light/nutrients/co2 seems to be the answer (which is a recipe for a multitude of problems) but no one could say for sure. So I would suggest you start injecting CO2 and using fertilizers and having good circulation right from the beginning. I would also suggest not even setting up the tank until you have all of those things ready to go. That way you won't have a problem to fix. Also have a heavy plant load. If you see algae, remove it manually (but not IN the tank, or the algae spores will just settle elsewhere), and then correct what the problem may be.

aquariumfertilizer.com ships to canada if you can't find it on SnS 

Good luck!


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## PinkPoodle (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks so much for your responses, everyone!



Kathyy said:


> Seachem has a nitrate fertilizer. There are a number of vendors on this forum that sell the powdered stuff. Whether it can be shipped to Canada or not, I don't know but you could ask. You could check the SnS for Canada, there may be a vendor there that could get it to you cheaper. Here is a thread that may give you a focus for a search in your area.
> [URL="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170736"]http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170736[/URL]


This is great, thank you so much for pointing me towards these fertilizers. In the meantime, I should have done a bit more research before asking you, but I have found the Seachem Nitrogen fertilizer and am dosing it carefully. Fingers crossed that this helps!



Diana said:


> Any of the treatments you are thinking of can kill BGA.
> Erythro is easiest on the plants.
> H2O2 is also not too harsh.
> Bleach can kill plants if it is not handled right.


I think I might go the hydrogen peroxide route, as it sounds less dangerous and is in my medicine cabinet right now. Can you tell me how I would go about treating the plants with it? I've only ever used bleach before (as an incredibly brief, diluted bath, followed by a dip in a quadruple dose of Prime)



Diana said:


> You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
> Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia, which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.
> 
> Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though.
> ...


Thank you so much for the detailed write up! I 150% agree with fishless cycling and think that it should be the only way that tanks are set up. The horrors that fish must endure while a tank is cycling, even if massive water changes are employed, are just unacceptable to me, ESPECIALLY when there is a much better method available. 



mommabear1007 said:


> i feel for ya, that stuff is disastrous. I used erythro to kill it. I think NO3 might help you too. I had a hard time finding an exact reason as to what causes cyano. Poor water circulation, low nitrates, and imbalance of light/nutrients/co2 seems to be the answer (which is a recipe for a multitude of problems) but no one could say for sure. So I would suggest you start injecting CO2 and using fertilizers and having good circulation right from the beginning. I would also suggest not even setting up the tank until you have all of those things ready to go. That way you won't have a problem to fix. Also have a heavy plant load. If you see algae, remove it manually (but not IN the tank, or the algae spores will just settle elsewhere), and then correct what the problem may be.
> 
> aquariumfertilizer.com ships to canada if you can't find it on SnS
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks so much for the suggestions! I've got a pretty good (at least it's rated for the size of my tank) HOB filter going... I'm trying to do this without CO2, as it's still too high tech/intimidating/expensive for me and my lack of experience/success with plants. Are there any water tests that I should be doing to check nutrient levels, or is it more trial and error to balance light and nutrients, etc?

Thanks so much again!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

The dilution of H2O2 is not very critical for a plant dip. I put a few cups of 3% H2O2 in a couple of gallons of water, so it is a lot stronger than you would want to use in an aquarium with fish, then toss the plants in while I am doing something else (like setting up the new tank). Whether it is half an hour or an hour later does not seem to be a problem. 

Then I put the plants in without rinsing, the remnants of H2O2 are not that bad, even in a tank with fish. 

With fish I have heard of levels as high as 2 ml of 3% H2O2 per gallon of water, but that was a pretty strong treatment. Half that seems to be a more consistent consensus. The 2 ml per gallon dose was a special use:
Turn off filters etc, and target dose the H2O2 onto the algae. Watch it bubble for a while (half hour minimum). This is H2O2 breaking down and releasing that extra oxygen. Then turn on the filter. 
But that was a caution about the effects of H2O2 on the fish. There may be some plants that cannot tolerate it, also. I was treating Anubias, and a few other thick leaved plants.


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## ZLogic (Aug 7, 2011)

I've been fighting BGA in a newly setup 50. I used a 15cc syringe with no needle and "spot shot" the worst areas and i kept injecting until i had added 100cc. Basically 2mL per gallon. Before starting all this i turned off my filter and circulation pump and waited until the water was settled so my targeting was as accurate as possible and to prevent h2o2 from getting into my filter and killing the good bacteria. Others didn't bother but i didn't want to take a nuisance and turn it into a disaster. After adding the h2o2 i let it sit for an hour or two (bubbles!). Followed by a 50% water change. The next day was a black out, then did it again in a couple days. It certainly has been effective and certainly not quick. Keep trying and let us know if something works out really good for you!


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## ZLogic (Aug 7, 2011)

BTW, my floating riccia is not faring well since the BGA outbreak. It's turned very light in color and is starting to thin. So upset, i love my floating island.


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## TheFoleys (Jul 30, 2012)

You should do what Diana instructed before putting the plants in and putting strong light on. Cycle it dark or dim.


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