# B-2MA2 swagelok needle valve



## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Has any one use this B-2MA2 needle valve with a JBJ bubble counter?


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## fordtrannyman (Jan 17, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> Has any one use this B-2MA2 needle valve with a JBJ bubble counter?


I use a SS-2MA2 with a JBJ Bubble counter.
It's an excellent setup even though it's a medium flow metering valve. I find it to be very precise.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

fordtrannyman you wouldn't have a pic of your setup. 
I just thought there might not be enough room to put a JBJ Bubble Counter on it . 
Didn't look like there would be enough space from the Solenoid too the threads on the B-2MA2 needle valve? 
You didn't need any adopter to hook the Bubble counter to it did you?
Would getting the Stainless Steel be a better choice than the Brass?


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## fordtrannyman (Jan 17, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> fordtrannyman you wouldn't have a pic of your setup.
> I just thought there might not be enough room to put a JBJ Bubble Counter on it .
> Didn't look like there would be enough space from the Solenoid too the threads on the B-2MA2 needle valve?
> You didn't need any adopter to hook the Bubble counter to it did you?
> Would getting the Stainless Steel be a better choice than the Brass?


No, I don't have a photo of it yet. 
My search results on Swagelok site didn't show a brass model, so I don't know if it's the same as mine.
I am only assuming yours is an angle pattern with 1/8" MNPT.
If it is, then a JBJ BC is not a problem.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

The B-2MA2 is not listed on there web page, I did get a price from them for $61. 

The B-2MA2 and SS-2MA2 are the same style
Brass-2MA2 and the Stainless Steel-2MA2

The Stainless Steel-2MA2 is listed for $88.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

There was competitive-automotive on eBay that had a boxful of new B-2MA2 valves for $25 plus $8 for shipping back in March. I hate that you missed it. I got one and someone else on this forum got one too.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

What did you think of it Left C


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

It has a bonnet has a packing adjustment that has to be torqued to 25-30 inch pounds using a 5/8" wrench. I haven't used mine mine yet. I believe that the Nupro division of Swagelok markets this valve.

This is the PDF telling about the torquing procedure.

fordtrannyman can explain its purpose very well.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

1. Be certain valve is in the FULL OPEN position, and
system pressure is relieved.
2. Thread Jam Nut off Bonnet.
3. Slide Locking Sleeve above Bonnet Hex.
4. Using 5/8 in. wrench, tighten Bonnet to 25-30 in.-lb
(2.8 - 3.4 N•m) to compress packing (TFE Guide Ring).
5. Slide Locking Sleeve down over Bonnet Hex and Body
Hex (Body Extension Hex on MG and MGD models).
6. Tighten Jam Nut against Locking Sleeve.
7. Test valve for proper operation.
CAUTION: M Series valves are not designed for shut-off

Show it comes completely close for shipping and we have to open it all the way and lock it down, What do you do if a person don't have a 5/8 tork wrench?


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

I just got my brass bubble counter from GLA :

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-bubble-counters/brass-bubble-counter.html

Very impressive! Now just waiting on my B-2MA2 swagelok needle valve sometime this week or next and hopefully everything will fit alright .


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

inkslinger said:


> ... What do you do if a person don't have a 5/8 tork wrench?


Did you find the answer to this question?


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Nooo! Left C

I just fig. Too hand tighten first then give it a little TWEAK not to over do it?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

inkslinger said:


> Nooo! Left C
> 
> I just fig. Too hand tighten first then give it a little TWEAK not to over do it?


That sounds right to me. 25-30 in-lb isn't very much.


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## fordtrannyman (Jan 17, 2008)

inkslinger, If I remember right (I can't find my notes) it only requires about 1/4 to 1/2 turn to obtain the desired torque of 30 in-lb.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Will I got my B-2MA2 and WOW it looks like a tank compared to my Clippard Needle Valve ! Well I called my local Swagelok store ask the Representative about the little note that came with the needle valve about the packing adjustment. He explane to me that for our application of CO2 BPS we should not have to do this adjustment at all we are not using pressure of 1000 psig (69 bar. This what I got of line:

Testing
Every Swagelok S, M, and L series metering valve is factory tested
with nitrogen at 1000 psig (69 bar). Shell testing is performed to a
requirement of no detectable leakage with a liquid leak detector.
Every Swagelok L series metering valve is tested for bubbletight
seat shutoff at 100 psig (6.8 bar) differential pressure. 

He said that these needle valves are use for High Pressure application and after awhile they may get loose after awhile and these is just to reset it.


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## fordtrannyman (Jan 17, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> Will I got my B-2MA2 and WOW it looks like a tank compared to my Clippard Needle Valve ! Well I called my local Swagelok store ask the Representative about the little note that came with the needle valve about the packing adjustment. He explane to me that for our application of CO2 BPS we should not have to do this adjustment at all we are not using pressure of 1000 psig (69 bar. This what I got of line:
> 
> Testing
> Every Swagelok S, M, and L series metering valve is factory tested
> ...


Thanks for that info. 
You're gonna love that Metering Valve. I actually like it better than my low flow Swagelok Valves.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Will I hook it up every thing looks nice just had to redo my Clippard Solenoid Valve Power Cord so that it would point down word so that I have plenty of room for the bubble counter, First I open it up to blow the pressure threw the new needle valve, Once I got bubbles I did my find adjustment and WOW what control I had and now I need a bigger CO2 tank ! I will place a pic later of my new setup.

:hihi:


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

VTS253A-1993 regulator is this one any good Left C. an is still available on the market?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> VTS253A-1993 regulator is this one any good Left C. an is still available on the market?


Not sure if the Victor VTS253A-1993 regulator is still available commercially (eBay is another story, of course), but there are some people that use it, so I'm pretty sure it works (check the Victor and dual stage regulator pimp thread).


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Is there a replacement for this model or one built like it?

What model is the one the G L A sells

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/images/victor-dual-regulator_zm.jpg

Are the Cornelius regulator any good?


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Got everything connected but keep getting a little leak around the the bubble counter are you suppose to put some Teflon tape or just tighten the ends?


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## fordtrannyman (Jan 17, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> Got everything connected but keep getting a little leak around the the bubble counter are you suppose to put some Teflon tape or just tighten the ends?


I never have. There should be an O'ring where the BC mounts to the valve and an O'ring below and above the clear cylinder.

A little trick to help the O'rings seal is to coat them with some BC fluid.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

inkslinger said:


> VTS253A-1993 regulator is this one any good Left C. an is still available on the market?


Yes. It is still in production. Victor makes it for a company to that particular company's specifications. 

mrmotorcycles sells them on eBay either in mint condition or brand new. He charges $20 to $40 for the mint condition models and $50 to $60 for the new ones. Shipping is $9.30 for one or the same price for two. 

mrmotorcycles gets his from a hospital that updated their backup CO2 system. The hospital is selling off their backup system's parts.

He also sells Concoa and Matheson CO2 regulators. I just checked eBay and he doesn't have any regulators listed, but he had two a couple of weeks ago that went really fast. They were new VTS253A-1993 chrome plated ones. They were purchased at the buy it now price of $69.30 including shipping.

I have his email address and I'll ask him if he has anymore.



Left C said:


> You can order Victor chrome plated, high purity dual stage regulators through Michigan Reefers. Brass and chrome plated CGA-320 nipples and nuts are available too. Then you may need a post body kit.
> 
> *Post Body Kits*
> SuMo Aquarium Regulators: http://sumoregulator.com/
> ...


I purchased a SGT500-40-4F-DK from Michigan reefers with a chrome CGA-320 nipple and nut for $90 including shipping. It is one really nice regulator. It also has a Swagelok stainless steel 1/4" to 1/8 MPT nipple. The SGT500 models have stainless steel diaphragms. Its body is made from chrome plated stainless steel. You can view it on pages 10 and 11 in the Thermadyne PDF above. I purchased a HPT272-40-350-4M chrome plated model on eBay. It has stainless steel diaphragms too. Michigan Reefers has them as well. They are also in the Thermadyne PDF on pages 22 and 23.


As a side note, I'm getting up an order for chrome plated Ideal metering valves. Let me know if you are interested.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

fordtrannyman said:


> A little trick to help the O'rings seal is to coat them with some BC fluid.


This is where it leaks a little 
What is BC fluid? Is this Mineral Oil?

Has any one use this CO2 Regulator looks to be compact :

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/regulators-pid-642.html

And it has alot of parts you can order for if needed :

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/regulators-pid-642.html

It's the same CO2 Regulator Model that SUMO sells

http://www.sumoregulator.com/PremierLine.html


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

inkslinger said:


> This is where it leaks a little
> What is BC fluid?


Bubble counter fluid, I believe.

I use my pipe dope on the top plastic threads of the clear bubble counter. You will loose 5 lbs of CO2 in three days if you don't. I know. :icon_smil

I haven't tried bubble counter fluid. I didn't know to try that.

Teflon tape should work too.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Left C said:


> Bubble counter fluid, I believe.
> 
> I use my pipe dope on the top plastic threads of the clear bubble counter.
> 
> Teflon tape should work too.


Do you just smear the pipe dope on to the tread evenly?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> This is where it leaks a little
> What is BC fluid? Is this Mineral Oil?


BC fluid is bubble counter fluid; it is usually mineral oil or glycerin.



inkslinger said:


> Has any one use this CO2 Regulator looks to be compact. It's the same CO2 Regulator Model that SUMO sells


It looks like the standard Cornelius regulator. Do note that it's a single stage regulator (single stage, but dual gauge). It is different from the Victor dual stage (and dual gauge) regulators.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

inkslinger said:


> Do you just smear the pipe dope on to the tread evenly?


Yes.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Will I guess I didn't have it tight enough, I added a thin piece of Teflon Tape on both ends any way and it seems to be working. I also use Jar Grip to tighten it up real good.

So anyone want to say something about Micro Matic regulator that Sumo sells on there web site is it any good, I my self like the compact size 

http://www.sumoregulator.com/PremierLine.html


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> So anyone want to say something about Micro Matic regulator that Sumo sells on there web site is it any good, I my self like the compact size


I don't have this regulator, but I would assume most single stage regulators are about this size.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Darkblade48 said:


> I don't have this regulator, but I would assume most single stage regulators are about this size.


 The 642 is the most durable regulator on the market today. This regulator sets the standard in quality features such as a forged brass body for durability, accurate machining, and a high quality chrome plated finish. This regulator has a built in Co2 resistant solid nylon inlet seal for constant perfect sealing. A nickel-plated valve seats for high corrosion resistance. Constant pressure supply at high output flow rates. This premium regulator features a safety relief valve at 55-65 PSI. The 642 has a large hand control which makes it easy to adjust the presure inside keg. This is a double gauge regulator. The top gauge shows how much pressure you are putting in the keg, and the second gauge indicates how much Co2 is left in the tank.

It say it's a { This is a double gauge regulator. The top gauge shows how much pressure you are putting in the keg, and the second gauge indicates how much Co2 is left in the tank.}

Well it work the same as my m3 CO2 Regulator ?

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...um_Supplies_CO2_Products_CO2_Regulators&tab=2

So is the double stage any better than a single stage regulators


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm not quite sure what the M3 regulator is, so I can't really comment on it. 

As you are probably aware, a double gauge regulator means that there are two gauges; one that shows you how much CO2 is left in the tank (typically 800 PSI when full), while another shows you how much pressure you are delivering (variable; usually set anywhere from 10-30 PSI).

A single gauge regulator will not tell you how much CO2 is left in the tank, while a dual gauge regulator will.

Note that dual *gauge* is not the same as dual *stage*. These are not interchangeable. 

Whether a dual stage regulator is better than a single stage regulator is open to interpretation; people have used both types of regulators, and both work.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

inkslinger said:


> So is the double stage any better than a single stage regulators





Darkblade48 said:


> Whether a dual stage regulator is better than a single stage regulator is open to interpretation; people have used both types of regulators, and both work.


Here are three informative links that explain the differences between single and dual stage regulators:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/e...-stage-regulator-pimp-club-53.html#post837442
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/e...-stage-regulator-pimp-club-33.html#post793120
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/e...-stage-regulator-pimp-club-20.html#post743710


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

So basically all the Aquarium Stores Online that sells CO2 Regulators for Aquariums sells the Single Stages Regulators Like :

MILWAUKEE MA957 Regulator
m3 Regulator
JBJ Regulator
Blue Line Regulator
Azoo Regulator
And any Beer Regulator would be a Single Stage also?

I guess if you want a dual stage regulators you would have too look for at Wielding or Medical Regulator? To keep the flow at a constant rate before the end of thank dump.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> So basically all the Aquarium Stores Online that sells CO2 Regulators for Aquariums sells the Single Stages Regulators Like :
> 
> MILWAUKEE MA957 Regulator
> m3 Regulator
> ...


All the above mentioned regulators (to the best of my knowledge) are single stage regulators. 

I know that GLA sells both single and dual stage regulator setups. Dual stage regulators are typically used in the welding industry or in medical/hospital environments. You can find dual stage regulators in the Swap and Shop or on eBay.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Would you consider dual stage regulators? PM me if you want some more information..


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## fordtrannyman (Jan 17, 2008)

inkslinger said:


> Will I guess I didn't have it tight enough, I added a thin piece of Teflon Tape on both ends any way and it seems to be working. I also use Jar Grip to tighten it up real good.http://www.sumoregulator.com/PremierLine.html


I'm glad you got it to seal. In theory pipe sealant is not necessary because it has an O'Ring. I coat the O'Ring so it spins as it's being tightened. Otherwise it gets pinched or bunches a little causing a poor seal.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Thanks fordtrannyman it was seeping out around the Brass and Glass meet not at the bottom. Thanks for the tip on coating the O'Ring


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Well here it is some pic's of my new Swagelok B-2MA2 needle valve with a JBJ bubble counter , It's on a 5lb tank witch I should get a bigger tank and a pic of my Clippard Needle next to my new B-2MA2 Needle Valve.


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## snafu (Oct 9, 2004)

inkslinger,
how's the valve working out for you? i'm curious about its operation and looking for someone with some real world experience with the valve. how low can you get the bubble rate? what input pressure are you using? and are you running it into a diffuser or reactor? thanks.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

hey snafu I like the B-2MA2 it's a great valve I can drop to 1-2 bubbles per second , But my Clippard Solenoid is given me more problem as too staying open when the power goes off that puts a lot of pressure to the bubble counter and makes it seep my fluid out.
My regulator reads at 1000psi when my co2 tank is full and my output reads at 20psi.
I run my co2 in a close loop with a Mag Drive 5 {500gph pump} , AM 1000 co2 reactor , Hydro Heater 300w. But this is now enough for my 110g tank so I'm in the process of changing this and my filter system some time this summer.


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## snafu (Oct 9, 2004)

inkslinger, thanks for the feedback. i've noticed a number of surplus medium flow metering valves with similar characteristics (i.e., 3 deg stem taper, Cv between 0.03 and 0.06, etc) for sale, and I was wondered how they would perform. I have a similar setup like you with pump/filter feeding a reactor, so i imagine these other valves might perform in a similar way to the B-2MA2. the only thing is that I wouldn't mind be able to get even slower rates out of a valve, which might mean going to a finer flow valve?


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## steelcitysfinest (May 4, 2009)

Sorry to jump this thread... but can anyone tell me if/what extra fittings are needed to replace my terrible needle valve supplied with the Milwaukee 957 with a Swagelok ss-2ma2. The Instruments and Controls division where i work has a room full of metering Valves so im hoping to run across something i can use. 

Milwaukee 957:
Fitting Diameters from solenoid to neddle vale?
Fitting Diameter from supplied bubble counter to Needle valve?
If i had to take a guess it would be 1/4" for both but im really not sure..
any fitting needed i can get at work also. 

Thanks in advance!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

I believe for the Milwaukee regulators, all the fittings are 1/4" (solenoid to needle valve and also from needle valve to bubble counter).


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

steelcitysfinest that would be nice if you could pick up a SS-2MA2 , You could check to make sure what size is the ports is buy a 1/4 or 1/8 x 1/2 brass nipples and try each one they don't coast much or check your maintenance department. But like Darkblade48 said it's probably a 1/4.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

I just realized my mistake. I meant 1/8". Most regulators have 1/8" ports. I believe the Milwaukee bubble counter is similar to the JBJ bubble counter (with the lack of a built in check valve). The JBJ bubble counter is 1/8" in diameter.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Darkblade48 Will than the B-2MA2 only coast me $61. and my system is 1/8 and it works great but if you want to spend more on Stainless Steel the SS-2MA2 is only $81-$89. no need for adopters from Solenoid to a JBL Brass Bubble Counter w/check valve it all fits nice.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

It doesn't really matter what part you order, as long as you keep the sizes the same. You could get a needle valve with 1/4" measurements, and could avoid needless adapters by finding a solenoid and a bubble counter with a 1/4" diameter opening. 

The easiest way, however, is to use a 1/8" needle valve, since I do not know of any bubble counters that are made with a 1/4" diameter. This being said, the solenoid is then best if it's 1/8" (outlet) as well. The inlet can be either 1/4" or 1/8" (depending on what you find), but most regulators have a 1/4" orifice (i.e. so if you want to use a solenoid with a 1/8" inlet, you will need a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter).


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