# ADA style stand and frameless tank



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

It's about 30 gallons...~300+ pounds when full.

4 tubes of 18 watts will give you moderate light levels. 6 tubes will bump you up to high light.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

300 pounds. well I can easily test for that and I know it will hold that even with out extra braces but I will add them to be safe. Thanks

Well the first coat (of two) of a grey colored oil based paint is down. Once that is dried it will be lightly sanded and then repainted. The sanded again and then a coat of spray paint to finish it off. 

Haven't fully decided on the final color yet though. Been looking at the grey as I was painting it and like that, then again, I say a blue grey color of spray paint, similiar to a few ADA stands I have seen and I like that as well. Of course there is the standard black that will go with any room and disapear into the background once the tank is set up.


----------



## Yoshi (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm not digging the grey... I think you would be better off painting it black, just my 2 cents. BTW, awesome work!


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

ADA stands are grey. 

And this is an ADA-style stand. Hehe.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

*The grey*

Actually the grey is just the base coats / Primer coats / sealing coat. I will be painting over it with my chosen color.

I have been debating over this myself.

I believe that in the room I will be having it; the black will make the stand stand-out too much. AS ADA states the stand should be simple and clean lines which will not take the focus off the tank, but rather disappear into the back ground. I am afraid that the Black stand might stand out too much.

I have looked at a "Blue grey color" which is very similar to the grey used in many ADA stands, but I am not sure either. I was thinking if the background of the tank is a deeper blue then this might not be a great idea.

ADA stands are many colors, just needs to be a color which goes well with your home and your style.


----------



## Yoshi (Apr 5, 2007)

epicfish said:


> ADA stands are grey.
> 
> And this is an ADA-style stand. Hehe.


Nah, ADA stands come in diff colors like tcampbell mentioned above. Wood grain/metallic/black/etc. roud:

Instead of black, what about a darker shade of grey?


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Yoshi -That is what I am considering, a dark grey color or a blue grey color, similiar to some stands I have seen.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

*Almost done!*

The stand atleast!

Doors hung, stand finished now just need a final color.









Not sure if I will drill holes in the sides for tubes or not. I left a part opened in the middle back so the tubes and co2 can fit up that way even when it is against a wall. will save extra holes. 









Can always add them later if necessary.









Tank should be 29 gallons or 110 litres, and 110 litres = 110 KG of water, plus substrate, rocks, drift wood and the weight of the tank itself. I have tested it with my wife and I sitting on the stand = 130KG approx with no problems at all. So the little more when considering substrate, plants and rocks and wood I will test for later)

There is a cross brace along the back top inside of the stand and a down brace along the back straight town to the base of the tank on the inside forming a sort of T for added security. But you can't see that in any of the pictures due to the angle.

How much would a 10mm glass tank 61 by 40 by 45 cm weigh? Always curious. what if it was 8mm glass?

(My tank maker said that they will do it in 8mm if they use glass rods at the corners for support. If not then they will need to do it in 10mm glass. Does that make sense?)


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

I would like to have it in 8mm as the glass is less green colored and the weight would be less. But since it is a ADA style stand and the width and lenght of the stand is the exact width and lenght of the tank, it might be better to be be 10mm, that way just incase earthquakes in Taiwan the higher weight might hold it in place better.  hahaha 

I was told "thicker glass means higher contortion when you look at your tank from an angle. For 12mm, even a 10 deg offset will have a bad bad contortion." True?

They saying that they will guarenttee it will not leak in a few years if 8mm if no braces and no rods and the responsibility is all on me if something goes wrong (which is usually the case here anyway), but if 10mm no 

What do most people do to test the stand supporting the with pile 300 plus pounds of bricks on it?


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

*The supports*

I am not really worried about the stand and the weight as I think it was built well, as I will explain below, but rather worried about the tank itself before it is built. 

8mm glass usually has less distortion and not as green of a color, but one shop says it is ok, the other shop says it isn't.
One says it will need glass rods to support the corners the other says it won't.
One says that it will probably leak in a few years if I use 8mm glass, and the other say 10mm glass will make the tank too heavy and is pointless and 8mm is structurally strong enough to support all the outward force put on it by the water. As the weight of the tank is being supported by the stand and not by the tank itself (Unless it is only being braced at the corners and not on a flat surface - someting not being done!) 

These are pictures of the back support which are under the top inside back of the stand.








There is a inner support which goes from top to bottom of the stand to further brace the weight from the top (middle board from above picture)








The front of the stand is supported by two layers of 18mm MDF, so 1 1/2 inches wide screwed together joining the sides, top, and front with 2 inch screws








The back braces, screwed to the sides will hold the sides together so now worries about the stand bending to one side or the other. And since the back braces are at the top and the bottom, each more than 1/3 of the total height of the stand it is well braced. (The opening is to allow heat to escape from the stand, make it a little lighter and give a place to grab when moving the stand) Plus I can use it to route the cords, filter pipes and CO2 if I don't wnat to drill holes in the sides.









Do you think this is not enough?

I have looked at the stands in the shops, and they have no inside back braces, the back is usually just 3 mm thick cheap plywood where mine is a solid back. They usually have an inner back support 1" by the lenght of the inside of the stand to support the whole weight. There is no braces at the bottom of the stand and the wood they use is a lot thinner. 

The only place I think might ever have a problem would be the bottom of the stand where the sides join to it, but that would only be a problem if someone was standing on the inside of the stand and trying to lift up the top of the stand while still standing on it. (Unrealistic but it might happen) I will put two 2" by 2" boards to support that joint on each side.


----------



## cleekdafish (Jun 13, 2007)

its enuff i built my 28 gallon stand like that and it held up really nicely and mine didnt have the extra support :red_mouth


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

thanks for your response. I feel better now.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

i think you did an excellent job!


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

There are many things I have realized I would have done different if I knew now, so I guess my next stand will be better.
It is a learning process. Like everything esle.

Need to decide clear silicon or black silicon on a 10mm tank now.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Need suggestions. Please excuse the mess of the room as I am in the process of renovating.

If the stand is grey and the design i have shown










should I go with clear silicon (actuall a blueish green color becuase of the color of the glass at edges) or the black silicon.

I am trying to picture both in my mind and I can't. The LFS says black is better as it will not get dirty looking like the clear and will not be as distracting as the bluish green color which happens when 10mm glass is joined together with silicon. 

But does it make the tank feel more "framed" in?

I was wondering as 10mm glass with both clear and black you will see the joining of the glass and with that size and Black ADA soil on the bottom and sides you will see water, black soild, bluish white rim, etc. If it was black would that be better?


----------



## trackhazard (Aug 24, 2006)

Try checking out Elos tanks. They are rimless and use black silicone. Should give you an idea of what it should look like.

www.elosusa.com

-Charlie


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestion. after checking the site www.elosusa.com and seeing Elo tanks in Black silicon:








I realized how much the black "frame" or confines the tank and makes it look strange on a light colored stand. Guess ADA style is the way to go all clear.

I really want the stand in 8mm glass clear silicon, so I might just talk to the better tank making shops and see what they say. 

By the way - I take no offense to any suggestions or comments people say, that is why I ask, to make sure I am think of everything and not missing something. You all have more experience with me, and often get me to think of something new.

Filter for the tank will be Eheim 2215
Intake









and Outflow will be glass ADA knockoffs called FLO Pipes. Look rather cool and the price is 45 USD per set.
















CO2 will be using an external CO2 reactor from a company called ISTA "MIX MAX PRO" it is good, quiet and effective.








or this CO2 diffuser








as I have an extra one lying around and it should be perfect for a 61 cm tank

Soil is similar to ADA but by another company. (I am doing NEW a product test for the company before it is marketed)

Planting and scape will just be a lot of plants and water changes for the first month to have the tank stabilize then figure out what I do with it.

Lighting is hard as the stand is 85 cm high, the tank is 45 cm high (130 cm) and the light I want suspended above the tank. But even if it is 20 cm above the tank that will be 150 cm high. When I am stilling down in my office (where the tank is) the lights will be shining in my eyes! So I need a very flat fixture with good reflectors and T5 bulbs and some type of piece (like a car visor) in front of it that will prevent the light from shining in my eyes.
Like this but not MH??








though might go with this JBJ—61cmX 20cmX 5.5cm 24W*4 = 96watts 
Hopefully I can suspend it from the ceiling of bars
























just need to see how it does with heat dispersion as there is no good light if the fixture can't get rid of the heat and not raise the tank temperature. One of the cheaper lights I use on my 90cm tank, I can't touch the light after on for more than 2 hours and the fixture is too hot!!
Since it is a 29 gallon tank I will shoot for about 90 watts of light in the fixture to give me room. Though I have been following a post about light and T5s and M shaped reflectors which stated if the reflectors are correct and the fixture is flat the light will have a more confined beam and reflect down into the tank better so that the watts per gallon rules do not apply and you can use less wattage of light.

I am staying away form MH as the temperature: I don't what to use a chiller and the fact that MH light the tank well but also "light the room and the neighbors’ house". There light is not very confined and shoots everywhere! That would definitely be in my eyes!


----------



## trackhazard (Aug 24, 2006)

Thats an interesting looking intake although I'm not exactly sure how it works from that one pic. The slit on the bottom is where the water comes in? I don't see any other openings on the pipe so I assume thats what its for.

Interesting design. The price on those pipes is great!

-Charlie


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Trackhazard - Yes the slit on the bottom is how the water comes in. I though it was rather interesting as well. It would have been nice if the slit was X shaped, to cover more area, though I will need to see how effective it is.

Has anyone used JBJ lights. The reflector appears to be just one long flat piece not individual M shaped to refect the light. Just curious the quality.


----------



## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

I really don't think that is the best intake. It only has one slit. That means suction from that slit will be VERY strong... fish might get stuck, or a leaf, etc. If it is a fish or a leaf, it might clog the filter like that.


----------



## cleekdafish (Jun 13, 2007)

how much is all of this is gonna be? it looks expensive


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Tropicalfish - You brought up a valid point there, and one I have considered as well. i am considering bringing the pipes to a glass maker here and having him drill holes along the lenght of the pipe itself to help with the intake. But I will have to wait and see how it works when it is set up.

Cleekdafish - the whole thing? Meaning everything?
Costs:
Stand (DIY) = 42 USD (including cost of some tools I didn't have)
Tank = 66 USD (if 10mm glass) 48 (if 8mm glass)
Lights = 78 USD
Filter (Eheim 2215) = 105 USD (they are more expenisve here)
Intake and Return = 42 USD

CO2, reactor, substrate and drift wood I have already. Ferts I have all from other tanks as well.

Total cost = 315 ~ 333 USD approx including all taxes


----------



## cleekdafish (Jun 13, 2007)

thats not a bad amount, its actually pretty gd . I wasted 1000+ on a 28 gallon tank setup b4...I aint gonna do that anymore....my 46 gallon is gonna be cheaper...way cheaper and the old tank im gonna ebay it off


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Yeah at times they can be expensive to set up. But then again the tank I used 10 years ago only cost be about 50 dollars total and it was home to many plants and many neon tetras and babies.
Guess we have make the hobby more complicated and more expensive. Just need to set limits


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Well still delays with the tank maker and trying to get the tank made. Hope all will happen soon as everything is now waiting on the tank!!!


----------



## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

FWIW, I have 4x39 watts over a 24" deep tank (T5 HO with one large parabolic reflector). The plants can grow fine with 2x 39 watt HO T5, even at that depth. I do use both banks during midday for ~ 3 hours. Its a Current-USA Nova Extreme fixture.

Since you are around 17.75 inches deep (before substrate), you might find 90 watts of HO T5 is too much, unless you have two banks so you can use one bank for the midday burst (a few hours) and just run half of the light for the main part of the photoperiod.

BTW, Nice stand! Always good to see a well done DIY standl.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Yeah the plan is to have it set up that way, on 2 or three different plugs from one light. Each plug controlling 1 or 2 tubes, so I can do a progressive lighting from morning to evening.

If there are 3~4 tubes then two switches. If 4 or more tubes (though not likely) then 3 switches, one controlling two tubes and one two controlling one each.

I just want to buy a light I don't need to upgrade if I change the tank any. I have bought 4 different lights in the past for my tanks and they are usually a pain to sell here in Taiwan as people don't seem to buy second hand, so I would rather buy a more over powered fixture and just not use all the bulbs.

The intake has two holes drilled just above the round ball as well so it will lessen the pressure on the one place.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Well tank has finally been ordered it will take about 10 days for it to cure and I can add water. Have eheim 2215 waiting. Need to decide on the lights now and how to suspend them. Looked at MH but good the temp in my house is 33 degrees C today and it is only June, can't imagine how high the tank temp would hit if I used MH on it and running a chiller would only add more heat to the house and make me more uncomfortable.

Advantage with this tank, is it will be in my office where I run an AC about 8 hours a day so the temp should help. The 3 foot tank is in the livingroom where we never use AC.










Final color: just one more sanding job


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

The Flo Pipes arrived. The quality is pretty good and the glass is thick. Not up to ADA standards in finish or packaging (the arrived wrapped in bubble wrap and a box of newspaper) but for the price of 45 dollars a set it is hard to expect that.

Customer service is great, and communications fast so I would recommend them (www.AQMagic.com / [email protected])
Pictures of my actual pipes are shown below.

Trying tofigure out how to suspend the T5 lights. Can't seem to find a metal worker here who can bend pipes so I can do it the ADA style, though still looking.


----------



## Beancurd (Apr 25, 2007)

I humbly request some action shots when you can kind sir. 

They look great!

Edit: Not to rush you setting this up or anything! ~.~


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Hard for me to wait too. Just need the tank and the lights now!!  always something to wait for.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Well I need to buy lights for my tank as everything else is ready and waiting, problem is I can't decide.

Don't want to spend the money to buy the lighting and then end up needing to upgrade. Have done that before with my 90cm tank and it is hard to sell used equipment.

Which lights do I chose
1. T8 (2 X 20watts) and get two of them for 80 watts as they have great refelctors (Honeycone style) and balasts I would assume the light would be very high and i wouldn't need that much
[IMG]http://i183.photobucket.com/a...st make my house hotter!! and my fish cooler.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Tank is ready to pick up today but has only been set together 4 days so not cured well yet, can plant for another 6 days. Am I better off asking to leave it at the tank makers until finished so he can test for leaks there or just take home.


----------



## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

leave it there, that way it's their fault if it leaks


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

That is what I was thinking as well. Will need to talk to them tomorrow.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

*The late follow up*

Well I am very late for an update so I will make it a good one. The tank is fianlly setup. That is the equipment is setup. Many pictures here so enjoy, I know I am. I really want to keep the tank empty right now as it is full of possibility and it seems any choice I make in layout will not do it justice. 

Where to begin. With the empty tank ofcourse:










Then the cork under the tank. Yup cork (the same stuff used in bulletin boards) 4~5mm thick. I tried looking for mats like the ADA mat and couldn't find it. The black pading used under floating hardwood floors was too thin, and difficult to come by, so I decided cork after the suggestion from a friend here. (Problems with this???)









Ofcourse there was a problem with the tank. There always has to be a problem, and this is mine. Bubbles in the silicon at the bottom side of the tanks. Unsightly, a little, but only when up really close and looking at the bottom side coner. The tank maker assured me this isn't a problem. Is it?









Now add the intake and return, from FLO Pipes (great prices and looks good - though a did have a problem with my intake being a little deformed on one set I bought)...


















Well they do the same whirl affect the Lily Pipes do (at a lot lower price):


























More of the whirl effec. I love looking at it.

















Surface water movement to remove the protein build up. No more surface skimmer in the tank!! Yeah. Less equipment. shock: What a minute, I am a man, I should want more equipment in my tank!!!: 

















The lights I decided to go with are by Fishline, a Taiwan based company. 









They are the brightest lights on the market it seems:








due to great reflectors for each tube.
I had planned to buy T8s but considered hanging them and the t5 and fixture is lighter and just 2.50US more so I bought T5 (added bonus T5 are 24watt tubes and T8 are 18 or 20 watt tubes).








Have legs of I don't hang them as well








Color is very different with a Blue and green, but I am not worried about that as much as quality of light and price:


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

*Continued*

Though for my second light as this is only 48watts total, I will need more. I will probably buy the more expensive and better colored Schuber Wright AD2.









It is said to not even get warm to the touch, so worth a shot. Though quite expensive. But very effective:








It will be in the front and will probably be T5 to give me more flexiability in light tube choice and better prices.
And with the neutral grey color, not bad








Though it all depends upon my money situation after buying all the plants/driftwood and rocks to setup this tank!


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Well the soil I am using is called Soil Pro Professional Grade Substrate. It is a Taiwan based company producing it, and should be on the market in the next couple of months. It is fantastic to use so far. "Soil Pro can buffer and maintain the PH at 6.8, providing a slightly acidic environment preferred by plants." is one of the quotes from the packaging.

Nice color and soft but firm texture. Soft enough it won't scratch glass, but firm enough it will hold together. Said to last well and maintain shape, not turning to powder.









Grain size is good and goes not look strange in tank, and is not uniform round balls like one brand, which looks very strange. 









The slope








and the final result
















Now the water test. Will it cloud the water like ADA? I hate adding water slowly and usually just dump it in by buckets. ADA I can't do that unless I want to spend a couple of days with a clouded tank and plants covered with a black/brown film of dust.
So how did it do?
Water in place








The greenish color is from the glass and the room lighting. 








This picture was taken 10 seconds after I stirred the water and soil around with my hand. No cloudiness at all!! Nothing. Just clear water!! Fantastic!

Now this coming week will be the real test of the soil. Once it is planted and the plants start to grow. 

Right now I am just running the tank and filter for a few day with just the soil to get things a little established in the filter and the soil to adjust and balance the PH of the water before I add plants. Some people suggest doing this with ADA as it realeases a lot of excessive nutrients at first and the PH is not stable for a few days. I will do it with this soil as well, doing 50% water changes every day for the first 3 days then begin planting.

Chosing the layout and the plants will be the hardest part now!! so many styles I love and only one tank to plant!!


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Ran a test today on the tank:

Ph 7.2
Ammonia (NH3/NH4+) = 0.5 mg/l
Nitrates: NO3- = 0.0 mg/l, NO2- = 0.0 ppm 
Phosphate PO4 3- = 0.25mg/l 
Kh = 3 degrees
Gh = 6 degrees

First time I ever used test kits on a tank so it it interesting to watch how it goes.

Plants quickly about 50% of tank and a piece of driftwood, no layout yet so no pictures. Just wanted to get something in the tank to go with the soil and help establish it as I was using everything new.

What I am considering now is how I will fertilize this tank. Just over the counter premixed stuff common in Taiwan as with a 110L tank the cost won't be that high. Follow the PPS-Pro method or EI Method.

EI for my tank would be:


KH2P04

20-40 Gallon Aquariums 
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week Potassium Nitrate 
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week Monopotassium Phosphate
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week Plantex CSM+B
50% weekly water change

(all time 1.5 for my 29 gallon tank as the info is for a 20 gallon tank and you double it for a 40gallon) though if I assume I am running a little lean on the light (I will have less then 3 watts per gallon), then I would start of with the above information and adjust it as growth inproves.

EI target ranges 
CO2 range 25-30 ppm - Hardest to maintain with temperature raise
NO3 range 5-30 ppm
K+ range 10-30 ppm
PO4 range 1.0-2.0 ppm
Fe 0.2-0.5ppm or higher
GH range 3-5 degrees ~ 50ppm or higher
KH range 3-5

PPS-Pro is very simple

Need to dose 1 ml / 10 gallon daily before lights come on so I would need to dose approx 3ml daily

That would mean a 90ml bottle of solution would last me one month!!!
And to make that all I need is:
KN03 = 6g = have it
KH2P04 = 1g = have it
MgSo4 = 4g have it
K2SO4 = 5g need to get it
TE = 7grams

according to this Introducing the PPS-Pro Solutions Recipe http://ca.geocities.com/[email protected]

That sounds easy, cheap and not a lot of work, and uses a lot less chemicals then EI.

Great article on the changes in dosing methods and it makes sense to me:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...c-pps-pro.html


----------



## guitardude9187 (Aug 22, 2006)

good thread, keep up with the update


----------



## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

I like these kind of journals - obstacles and solutions. Great photo documentation! You may want to write a moderator and suggest that your thread be moved to the photo journal section . Good luck on the "breaking in" phase.

I'm a little late seeing your setup, but if you are interested... I did a very similar setup as yours about 3 months ago. If you click on my ADA photo journal, you may be able to get some ideas. Albeit, I had the luxury of simply having lots of ADA products at my disposal, so I didn't have to do as much improvization. Built my own stand, like you, though .


----------



## baz (Jun 28, 2007)

How are the Flo Lily pipes working out? Any complaints or problems so far?


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Flo Pipes have been working fine. At first the suction was very strong when I added shrimp to the tank a few curious one got sucked into the filter (not a problem as they probably hav more to eat in there then in the tank), though after that they learned to avoid it. I am using them hooked to a Eheim 2215 on the 29 gallon tank with no problem.
Just like any glass item though they need cleaning.

I have considered having them drilled with more holes in the intake at a local Glass blowing shop to see if they will be better at sucking water from multiple locations in the tank, and reduce the suction at one place though really this is not a problem, more an experiment. 
I have 2 friends who are using them on their tanks as well and they are all Shrimp only tanks (CRS) and they have reported no problems (though one person does have a mesh cover over the intake)


----------



## baz (Jun 28, 2007)

That sounds great as i'm planning to give thes pipes a try on my 25 gal. I have an Ehiem Ecco 2234 and it has an equivalent flow to your 2215. Before you modify your pipes, maybe put more media in your filter to restrict the flow a little bit? On my filter I'm going to try using the 2236 canister (gives me one more media basket) with the 2234 pump. Hopefully this would lessen the suction from the intake pipe.

Please update with more pics. I love how your tank has evolved so far.


----------



## baz (Jun 28, 2007)

I just read in another post that you replied regarding the problems you had with low flow in your tank, so I guess my suggestion won't work for you.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Baz with this tank the low flow will not be an issue, with the 90cm and big slow growing plants and a low flow rate it became an issue
Currently the Eheim 2215 on this tank is fully with the stand green corse foam which came with the filter and a layer of white Filter floss to polish the water on top.

And once the plants started to grown the flow will be slowed by them.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

*UPDATING you all....*

Well it has been a while since I posted any pictures so I should post them now. I started everything off slow.

Lights = 48 watts T5 using a Fishline Light Fixture. Very bright. One tube is a Philips Master 865 and the other is the Philips Master 840. So I get a mixture of more reddish light with more white/blue light. So that is 1.65 watts per gallon, very similar to what Tom Barr suggests a tank should have and he give an example with the low light ADA tank. http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31204&highlight=plantbrain

So 

Filter is the Eheim 2215 of course with just the standard course green filter media and one layer of white filter floss.

Soil was a test version of soil I mentioned previously. One bag of 9l which really wasn't enough soil but I made due.

Problems or issues = only two, the glass pipes get dirty fast and need to be cleaned as you see in the picture. Two, the soil wasn't enough to easily plant so I made do.

The tank was setup from scratch, so no mature filter, etc.

Day one put in soil and ran filter, no lights no co2
Day two drained all water and refilled
Day three drained all water and refilled
Day four planted the tank
Day five drained half water and refilled
Day six drained half water and refilled
Day seven added shrimp (50 or more small ones)
Day eight drained half water and refilled
Day nine added 5 Rummy noses tetra, One oto
Day ten added fish, what are the called...... CAE, with a spotless yellow body
Day eleven drained half water and refilled
Day twelve added 5 more rummy nose tetras and two corys
Day thirteen watched fish
Day fourteen drained half water and refilled
Day sixteen watched fish
Now Day 21 drained half the water and refilled

Test results:
NH4 gradually rose for the first 6 days to 1.0mg/l then dropped by the 8th to 0.5mg/l and down to 0 by the 9th day and has been that way since.

Po4 has been a stable 0.25mg/l , the same as my tap water

NO2 stayed 0 until the 9th day, rose to 1.0 then 2.0 on the 13th day then dropped sown to 0 by the 18th day

No3 stayed 0 until the 9th day where is went to 5.0 and has stayed that way until I added ferts.

KH has been a stable 3
Gh was a 6 and in the last week rose to 7

Started ferts for the first time 3 days ago and now levels are

NH4 = 0.0
PO4 = 1.0
NO2 = 0.0
NO3 = 5.0
KH = 3
GH = 7

Dosing is 1.4tsp Kno3 X2 a week, 1/16 Tsp Kh2Po4 X 2 a week, 1/16 tsp Plantex CSM + B X 3 a week

These has been no issue and no algae. Tank is responding ok. I was not able to start CO2 until 3 days ago as I was running tests on the soil, natural buffering level and nutrient levels, and couldn't have the CO2 or ferts mess with that. OH well. Results have been fine.

Here is the picture:









The plants in the two front corners are just there as I haven't had time to do anything with them yet.

Please don't judge the layout to strongly as this setup wasn't really about a layout but rather comparing the soil to ADA soil and water cloudiness, easy of setup, buffering level, quality of soil, downsides, etc.

Good news is have a tank with no algae for 3 weeks and no problems. The soil is good, easy to use and will be a great product, with no water cloudiness.

Bad news is I am dismantling the tank tomorrow. I have been asked to test out another version of soil (this time I will have the proper amount for planting as I have 2 bags) and see how it compares.

Shouldn't be bad, take out all plants, and hardscape. Catch all the fish, remove the soil. Clean the tank. Clean the pipes, etc. Add new soil and start over.

Suggestions on layout welcomed.


----------



## mecgeorgeneo (Aug 12, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear you have to replace your substrate tomorrow. I remember that being a pain. But on the other hand it gives you a chance to reaquascape. It's a nice set up you have so far. My only suggestion would be for the background/wood. The wood and plants are all about the same height. Variation of height would make it much more interesting. Good luck and look forward to seeing more pics!


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Nice thread, I like to see people trying out alternatives. Too bad you have to change the sub, it was interesting and I was waiting to see how it panned out. Those lily pipes look pretty nice for the price, thanks for the link to those.

I was looking all over for an actual photo of that JBJ light you were considering that wasn't merely a CG rendering, back when I was fixture shopping. Looks better than I thought it would, better looking than the coralife I ended up buying.:icon_roll


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Add more plants, add more plants!!!

Then phase them out later or trim them away.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Well the tank has went through a lot since I started it, and I realized I have not been updating this at all. 

The soil was changed out 2 times, and I am on the final version of the soil that will be on the market now. There were some issues with surface foam from the soil (problem with the "glue" used to hold the soil together), though they have all be resolved. 
I will update photos in a few minutes with the tank progress.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

*The Photos*

Some Photos.

Soon after the above picture when I added more plants and changed a little


















Needing a trim:

















Little too trimmed Removed over 80 plants!:


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Big tank


----------



## eon17 (Aug 30, 2007)

looks great! i dont really like the bare part though


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

eon17 said:


> dont really like the bare part though


Test area to see if the new sub will carry excessive algae maybe? Non the less, looks good, I like the wood. If this goes far beyond being a test tank, I think you should create the image of a tree by topping the wood with a bushy plant.

Tcampbell, are you able to give us any more info on the new substrate? maybe an info link or even availability? Thnx -J


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Actually the open space was for a few reasons. 1. Yes, to test the substrate, and watch the break down process. 2. I have 3 sets of cories in the tank (love those fish) and they seem to dig up any small plant i have there, as well, if it is thick full plants I won't see the cories much. 3. I actually like the open space, the contrast between the high plants and the low front.

However it has changed now, and i have trying with HC in the tank front. Hopefully it works out. We will see.

I have increased the lighting as well, purchased another Flishlive 48watt (2X24) T5 fixture. The lighting schedule is 2pm till 10pm, with 48 wattss on throughout and the second 48 watts on from 4 pm to 7pm.

The bigger tank I have changed the layout a bit after deciding to clear things up a little and brighten up the tank. Now with the summer behind me and the cooler weather coming, things in the tank should be easier.



















(PS - I know about the heater. Just need to move it around, but need to pick up an extention cord as it will not reach the plug unless put there)

I have officially decided I do not like this plant though. 










Even though I know it is happy and growing well, producing lots of ofspring, it just looks bad to me with the exposed brown roots and so I will probably be changing it around in both tanks


----------



## Lowe (Nov 11, 2011)

tcampbell said:


> Though for my second light as this is only 48watts total, I will need more. I will probably buy the more expensive and better colored Schuber Wright AD2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't mean to bump an old thread but Schuber Wright Low Iron Aquariums and lighting are now in the States . AD2 should be here at the end of the year.


----------



## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Great lights, however I am based in Taiwan. 
Surprised to see this tread bumped. Haven't looked at it in years. Tanks has been through a lot of changes since then and now being redone after a move to a new location.


----------



## Lowe (Nov 11, 2011)

^ Be sure to post pics!


----------

