# Purchased T5HO - they aren't very bright



## kendrid (May 15, 2010)

I have a 29 gallon which was setup as a low tech DIY CO2 system for the past year.

I've liked my tank so I stepped it up and purchased a pressurized CO2 system and at the same time purchased new lights.

I use a Versatop all glass cover over the aquarium. It is clean.

My "old" lights are a Coralife 30" 2x18w T5 with the following bulbs:
6700K T5
ColorMax T5

My new lights are an Aquaticlife dual lamp T5HO fixture with:
(1) 24 in T5 HO 24W 6,000K Lamp
(1) 24 in T5 HO 24W Roseate Lamp 650 nm 

The T5HO output looks half as bright as the Coralife fixture which are standard T5 bulbs. What would be the reason for this? I expected the T5HO fixture to be a lot brighter than the 18w Coralife bulbs but they aren't. Could it be the color temperature of the bulbs and my perception of the light? I have extend the legs so the lights are closer to the glass but it doesn't help much. The Coralife fixture is sitting on the glass.

I purchased the Aquaticlife fixture at my LFS on sale for $100. I was considering a fixture from Catalina Aquarium but figured I'd buy locally. 

I will take some photos tonight with the same shutter speed/aperture/iso to demonstrate the difference. 

My original plan was to use the T5HOs as my burst bulbs on around four hours a day but based on visible light output it seems like the Coralife should be my burst bulb. For now I'm running both on 10 hours/day and I haven't had any algae issues yet.

Thanks


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

The 650nm bulb is not a plant bulb, but a reef bulb. You need something "white" I prefer bulbs from 8000k to 10000k. 

The bulb you have now is much dimmer, to start. Also, i find t5ho bulbs need some "burn in" to get them to full strength.


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## kendrid (May 15, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> The 650nm bulb is not a plant bulb, but a reef bulb. You need something "white" I prefer bulbs from 8000k to 10000k.
> 
> The bulb you have now is much dimmer, to start. Also, i find t5ho bulbs need some "burn in" to get them to full strength.


Thanks for the reply.

They state that the 650nm is a plant bulb:









Based on that graphic I have the pink and "not very white" which may be why they don't appear very bright. It just doesn't seem correct that they Coralife is _so_ much brighter. I'll get photos up tonight.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

sorry, 650 is a red, not blue like I was thinking. The red bulb definitely looks dimmer than most bulbs.


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## 12 Volt Man (May 8, 2008)

hmm. I just bought an AquaticLife 36" fixture but I never saw the bulbs turned on that they came with. I swapped them out immediately for two Hagen Powerglo T5HO's and they are very bright: (top tank in the pic, a 65g tall)

I always liked the look of them and I guess I didn't trust the stock bulbs LOL

perhaps try a different combo of bulbs?


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## Lance Uppercut (Aug 22, 2009)

I recently picked up the aquaticlife 6700k and Roseate to try out in my Hagen Glo fixture and they seemed plenty bright. Maybe the ballast in your fixture isn't driving the bulbs as hard as it's supposed to? I would try and swap some different bulbs in as an experiment, (your NO coralife bulbs would work in a pinch), just to see if there is any difference.


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## StaleyDaBear (Apr 15, 2010)

possibly a 10,000 k or 18,000 k is in the works for you? much brighter and you can pair it with either the 6700 k or your roseate to make the look you want. I presonally combo a 6700 k, a roseate, a 10000 k, and an actinic when i take pictures to make a nice bright/purplish hue that really brings out my colors. I then take the 10000 k and the actinic out when simply growing ...


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## kendrid (May 15, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. 

I will try swapping the bulbs to ensure that the fixture is working properly. After taking photos tonight though I am pretty sure it's fine.

I took some photos (same aperture, shutter, ISO) and now a few days later I don't see a difference in brightness but there is an obvious difference in color temperature.

Aquaticlife T5HO 2x24w fixture:


Coralife F/W T-5 Aqualight Double Strip Light-30":


Both at same time:


I now think that the Aquaticlife looks great by itself, and "all on" is also nice and very bright. The brightness between the two looks similar, the Coralife is just more red which is what I am used to.

Next on the list is to get rid of that "weed" in the back left corner  and start trying to make it look nice. I want to hide that filter intake and actually try to make a nice aquascape. That is HC in the front which I want to cover the front ground of the tank.

Just to be complete here is my setup:
Rena XP2
Penguine HOB filter (not needed but it came with the tank)
5lbs CO2 canister with Milwaukee regulator
EI dosing

Here is my Ram "courting" a Molly. He needs a girlfriend.


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

Just to add quickly, from the research I've done, T5HO bulbs are only about 90% as efficient as T5NO bulbs are, so your 2x24W T5HO bulbs would be about the equivalent of 2x21.6W T5NO bulbs. Compared to your existing 2x18W T5NO bulbs, it's a slight increase, which is probably why they more or less look identical in brightness.

Harry


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## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

Kendrid, very nice tank.


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## comatoast (Mar 11, 2009)

Not sure this is relevant, but I was running 2X24W. Aquatic Life T5HO bulbs, switched to Giesemann bulbs and immediately noticed an easily appreciable increase in brightness. I know the human eye isn't the most accurate tool for assessing these things, but the visual difference is huge.


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## kendrid (May 15, 2010)

comatoast said:


> Not sure this is relevant, but I was running 2X24W. Aquatic Life T5HO bulbs, switched to Giesemann bulbs and immediately noticed an easily appreciable increase in brightness. I know the human eye isn't the most accurate tool for assessing these things, but the visual difference is huge.


Were you using the Aquatic Life dual bulb fixture?

Petco has all of their Coralife T5HO 6700K bulbs on clearance for $4 so I picked one up. It is a little brighter than the 6000K Aquatic Life but not by much.
I replaced the 650nm bulb with the Coralife (so 1 6700K, 1 6000K) and it was quite a bit brighter. That 650nm does look dim but if it grows plants that is fine.

For now I am going to run the stock Aquatic Life bulbs. I figure the 650nm is supposed to be good for plants so I'll try it for a while. I am keeping the Coralife bulb I bought for $4 as a backup.



> Kendrid, very nice tank.


Thanks.


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## comatoast (Mar 11, 2009)

kendrid said:


> Were you using the Aquatic Life dual bulb fixture?


No- I was running them in an Odyssea fixture. (Which, according to many here, will soon create a black hole- swallowing the earth.) I have no experience with the Coralife T5HO bulbs, but I'm loving the Giesemanns.


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## Joefish4jc (Mar 18, 2010)

Im surpised no-one has pointed this out yet.... 24 inches versus 30 inches... 

A while back, I tried making the switch from one single 30" T8 bulb to two 24 in T5s and the two T5s didnt cover nearly as much area as the one T8. Also, how good is the reflector?


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## kendrid (May 15, 2010)

Joefish4jc said:


> Im surpised no-one has pointed this out yet.... 24 inches versus 30 inches...
> 
> A while back, I tried making the switch from one single 30" T8 bulb to two 24 in T5s and the two T5s didnt cover nearly as much area as the one T8. Also, how good is the reflector?


The 24s don't cover as well to the edges but even the middle of the tank isn't very bright compared to the standard T5s, ast least from what I was expecting based on what I've read. Based on my experiment last night it is most likely because of the 650nm red bulb which isn't bright (but should grow plants) and my expectations.

The light has individual reflectors and they seem nicely polished.



> I was running them in an Odyssea fixture. (Which, according to many here, will soon create a black hole- swallowing the earth.)


I was going to buy one of the 4x24 fixtures off of ebay then I saw all of the hate for that fixture, it catching on fire, etc. It looks like they fixed the early reliability issues but I bought this locally figuring I don't need 4x24 over a 29 gallon.


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## archer772 (Nov 13, 2009)

comatoast said:


> Not sure this is relevant, but I was running 2X24W. Aquatic Life T5HO bulbs, switched to Giesemann bulbs and immediately noticed an easily appreciable increase in brightness. I know the human eye isn't the most accurate tool for assessing these things, but the visual difference is huge.


I agree as I have tried the Hagons amd Currents and they seem very dim to me when compared to Giesmman's, ATI's and the GE 6.5 Starcoats and the PAR readings seemed much higher also, dont have the numbers but thats what I remember.


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## comatoast (Mar 11, 2009)

kendrid said:


> I was going to buy one of the 4x24 fixtures off of ebay then I saw all of the hate for that fixture, it catching on fire, etc. It looks like they fixed the early reliability issues but I bought this locally figuring I don't need 4x24 over a 29 gallon.


I didn't let the "hate" deter me, and I couldn't be happier with the fixture. I have been using it for about five months- I run it over a 26 bow front, and having the extra bulbs allows me to do a "noon burst." Of course, the fixture could create the black hole at any moment, but it seems to be working quite well so far...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

When Comawaffle disappears off the forum we'll know he was eaten by an Odyssea-spawned black hole. :icon_mrgr (I'm personally one of the haters but in fairness I never owned any of their T5 fixtures, just their old and definitely very shabbily-made CF...)


Kendrid- What is the plant in your far left corner? Is that Wisteria?


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## kendrid (May 15, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> Kendrid- What is the plant in your far left corner? Is that Wisteria?


Yes. It actually isn't a bad plant and it grows fast even under low light. It can get unruly very fast. I often cut half of it out each week.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Very well could be the bulbs themselves. Geissman makes awesome T5's. Used them myself and they were bounds ahead of the Current bulbs. Visually they were brighter, coral responded better, etc.


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## comatoast (Mar 11, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> When Comawaffle disappears off the forum we'll know he was eaten by an Odyssea-spawned black hole. :icon_mrgr


So, I assume you're holding your breath until that inevitable event. Just remember- having me for lunch won't stop the black hole. Eventually, all waffles on Earth will fall victim to the senseless destruction. In fact, I may have to change my username to comadanish to try and outsmart it.


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## i4x4nMore (Mar 31, 2008)

I just wanted to add a note to the course of this thread regarding the "dim" factor, because I didn't see anyone touch on it... 

Whenever you compare a monochromatic bulb in the red or blue range to a typical tri-phosophor bulb, it is going to "look" dimmer to a human because our eyes are not as sensitive to red or blue light compared to green light. But in terms of photosynthesis, the bulb is not going to be "dim" for plants. The two differing bulbs could hypothetically produce the same amount of photosynthetic energy, but the one lacking the green/yellow wavelengths will "appear" dimmer to the human eye.

There are a couple of ways to choose bulbs for growing plants: Even though plants can derive photosynthetic energy from most of the visual spectrum, including yellow/green light, the red and blue part of the spectrum have been shown to be more efficient. So, in terms of photosynthetic efficiency and electrical consumption, bulb manufacturers produce these mono-chromatic bulbs aimed at the red (and sometimes blue) part of the spectrum. And if efficiency was your goal, you might use a combination of these bulbs to promote good photosynthesis at the cheapest PAR-per-dollar. An example of this is the use of sodium vapor (red) and mercury vapor (blue) lights in grow houses. It's not a good combination for color reproduction, but it is very efficient.

But for most of us, we want good visual aesthetics in our tanks, which means we want a good CRI from our light. CRI is an index that measures how good a bulb reproduces color compared to natural sunlight. Mono-chromatic bulbs designed for plant growth do not have a high CRI, but they probably have a good PAR efficiency.

Ultimately, a bulb with a good mixture of green, red, and blue wavelengths is going to "look" better to you. And the one with the most green/yellow wavelengths is going to appear the "brightest" to you.

This is why common household fluorescent bulbs are designed to have a huge green spike in their spectrum - more green wavelengths means more lumens (to humans). 

Comatoast, this is probably the difference you experienced with the Giesemann bulbs... the spectrum was significantly different compared to your original bulbs, but the same cannot be said for photosynthetic energy (PAR). But fortunately, the two bulbs you were comparing are sufficient for growing plants and you can choose the one that makes your tank "look" better. But you'd have to break out a PAR meter to really know what's going on in terms of photosynthetic energy, if you were trying to fine tune things. As you mentioned, you cannot judge these things with your eyes.

Cheers All!

.


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## kendrid (May 15, 2010)

Great write up i4x4nMore. I really appreciate it.


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## archer772 (Nov 13, 2009)

I agree i4x4nMore but thats why I dont like going by lumens and prefer par readings. Here is a link to some par readings of T-5 bubls that are typically used over Reef tanks

http://sites.google.com/site/tfivetesting/par


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## Lance Uppercut (Aug 22, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> Kendrid- What is the plant in your far left corner? Is that Wisteria?


Looks more like Watersprite


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## kendrid (May 15, 2010)

Lance Uppercut said:


> Looks more like Watersprite


You might be right about that. I've purchased both plants and I don't recall for sure which that is.


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## Jane of Upton (Apr 2, 2006)

Very nice thread, Kendrid!

The comparison pictures are great - really gives us a sense of what the visual differences are. 

I'm running a 24" dual T5HO AquaticLife fixture over a 20H with the stock FW lamps included, and I was also surprised at the difference to my eyes (previously running a Coralife 65w CF fixture over the tank). Technically its less total wattage, and so when it looked "dimmer", I just figured it was a little dimmer, but I knew I wasn't seeing all the lumens, so I just decided to wait and see. Also, I did a LOT of research on reflector efficiency, and the shaping of the AquaticLife ones is VERY good.

Now, a few months in, the plants are definitely responding like they got an UPgrade in light, so the decrease in wattage means savings for me. I think the lamps are pretty good, especially compared to some of the "included" lamps I've seen. But, because of the higher CRI ratings of the Geissmann lamps, when I go to replace them, I'll definitely put in a Geissmann Mid-Day in place of the stock 6000K lamp. I'll probably stay with a roseate lamp in the 2nd position (not sure which manufacturer) because of the nice results I've seen with this one.

-Jane


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