# 20 Gal one year later Newibe to scaped(updated 9/10/07 pics page11)



## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

bump 92 veiws no comments..................................


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

Man lol ur tank looks nicer then mines, but why didnt you use the Florabase Alone? i jus rescaped mines, atfer i saw this, it looks better then blue gravel =D

nice bright colors, ima have to get my self some 10k tubes


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

Wow, your tank looks awesome now! Very big change man! I love that you researched and rescaped and everything, thank you for the detailed post!


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## Blackthumbwoes (Feb 27, 2007)

I did enjoy the evolution and changes in your tank, makes me wish i'd have done that with a couple of my past tanks. Right now i just have one planted tank and its kinda embarrassing atm lol. Great work.

How well did the crinums take to being relocated every few weeks? Did the grow well and hold up to it? I've been thinking about giving one a shot but have read they dont enjoy being moved much.

Jason


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> Man lol ur tank looks nicer then mines, but why didnt you use the Florabase Alone? i jus rescaped mines, atfer i saw this, it looks better then blue gravel =D
> 
> nice bright colors, ima have to get my self some 10k tubes


I didn't just use the florabase alone becuase I wanted the look of the sand. Also the rubberlips that are in there now like it for gathering their food.



Blackthumbwoes said:


> I did enjoy the evolution and changes in your tank, makes me wish i'd have done that with a couple of my past tanks. Right now i just have one planted tank and its kinda embarrassing atm lol. Great work.
> 
> How well did the crinums take to being relocated every few weeks? Did the grow well and hold up to it? I've been thinking about giving one a shot but have read they dont enjoy being moved much.
> 
> Jason


The crinums have always done great with the transplanting, but some of the others have not done so well, but with time they always come back as well. Since that last pic I have traded some of the plants and added some new ones. When I get off of work I am going to post a pic taking this morning with all the new plants, fish and layout.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

9 X Microsorium pteroptus 
1 X Anubias Nana 
3 X Ammannia gracilis 
6 X Alternanthera reineckii 
3 X Cryptocoryne wendtii
2 X Crinum thaianum
10 X Ludwigia repens 
6 X Myriophyllum matogrossensis
Carpeting Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
All driftwood covered in Vesicularia dubyana or Selaginella uncinata










this was as of tonight, but lord knows what tomorrow could bring ROFL.......


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

is that jus a 15 watt on a 20 gallon?

if it is damn that has more growth then mines 

mines is a 10 gallon with 30w


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## Kelley (Nov 2, 2006)

What a terrific post! If truth was told, I think that most of us have gone (or are going) through a very similar evolution. I think that it is great to see how much you have learned. This is very inspiring!


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> is that jus a 15 watt on a 20 gallon?
> 
> if it is damn that has more growth then mines
> 
> mines is a 10 gallon with 30w


You read the begining and then just looked at pictures...........

I have a jebo 110watt light 2 x 10000k............I used to have a 15watt light lol


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

o right lol, im probably still to poor to afford even some good t-5s


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> o right lol, im probably still to poor to afford even some good t-5s


You have a 10 gal right, I bet a new light cost less then the Jordans in your avtar....ROFL


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

o right lol, my shoes cost more then lights -__- wow thanks i never thought of that


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Looks nice d00d. I love all the collective inspiration this board offers. Keep up the good work :icon_smil


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

mrbman7 said:


> Looks nice d00d. I love all the collective inspiration this board offers. Keep up the good work :icon_smil


What is d00d?


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

dude? lol

dadafggfhkhjlk


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## Chrona (Feb 25, 2007)

I like the nice progression of the tank!


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Chrona said:


> I like the nice progression of the tank!


Thank you, I actualy have about 20 pics of this tank at different stages that I chose not to post as it was all getting a bit silly, but the tank has certenly changed quite a bit. It still has a fair amount of filling in to do, maybe in hindsight I should have waited then done a complete thread


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

nice timeline...you can truly see how you learned and got better at scaping through the entire process.

beautiful. you might as well just go get a bigger tank because you know you want to but you just can't pull the trigger....lol.:flick:


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## retoid (Jan 2, 2007)

d00d = dude


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

gmccreedy said:


> nice timeline...you can truly see how you learned and got better at scaping through the entire process.
> 
> beautiful. you might as well just go get a bigger tank because you know you want to but you just can't pull the trigger....lol.:flick:


I'd say the only way you could keep getting better is by having more space to do so


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

RESGuy said:


> I'd say the only way you could keep getting better is by having more space to do so


I have a 55gal planted as well, it is currently a low light tank but I am in the process of building a hhod and then it will really start to take off. I can't get anymore tanks as the wife has said we are a 2 tank family ONLY lolololol. So I just change up the tanks all the time:icon_eek:


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## Chrona (Feb 25, 2007)

iroc said:


> I have a 55gal planted as well, it is currently a low light tank but I am in the process of building a hhod and then it will really start to take off. I can't get anymore tanks as the wife has said we are a 2 tank family ONLY lolololol. So I just change up the tanks all the time:icon_eek:


Ditch the small tank and get a 180g :hihi:


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

Chrona said:


> Ditch the small tank and get a 180g :hihi:


Good point lol It's still two tanks


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

RESGuy said:


> Good point lol It's still two tanks


ROFLMAO!!

or you can just do what i do...buy them, hide them in the basement, then when she is out set it up and have it running...then when she says "where did that come from", you can just say...

"I fell down the basement stairs and had a vision..." 

your on your own from there though...i have yet to figure out a good ending to that, and its yet to work (thus the three tanks that are in the basement), but one day...one day...it will work...


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

gmccreedy said:


> ROFLMAO!!
> 
> or you can just do what i do...buy them, hide them in the basement, then when she is out set it up and have it running...then when she says "where did that come from", you can just say...
> 
> ...


Well 1 we don't have a basement..................2 My girl would require that a tank go, so then I would be forced to sell all my plants in that tank and fry the fish...J/K

I tried the whole bigger tnak "but it's still only 2 tanks" line already it didn't work out well she said " well I hope you get one big enough to sleep in........


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## Chrona (Feb 25, 2007)

iroc said:


> Well 1 we don't have a basement..................2 My girl would require that a tank go, so then I would be forced to sell all my plants in that tank and fry the fish...J/K
> 
> I tried the whole bigger tnak "but it's still only 2 tanks" line already it didn't work out well she said " well I hope you get one big enough to sleep in........


So? Go out and buy a 500 gallon tank. When she asks, say you thought she was being serious/literal


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Chrona said:


> So? Go out and buy a 500 gallon tank. When she asks, say you thought she was being serious/literal



Thinks about this logic......................I like it!!!!!!!!!!

I am officaly starting the Iroc 500 gal tank fund, anyone who has ever been told their fish keeping needs to be kept to a 2 tank max paypal avaible


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## jeffthefish (Apr 2, 2007)

You could replace your bedroom walls w/ plexi and convert it into a fish tank.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Ummmmmmmmm let me think

1. place to sleep
2. big ass fish tank




I'm gonna go with 1


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

i like chronas idea =D


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

So back to my tank. I am facing an outbreak of hair algea not sure how this happened as I have had the same Lighting/CO2/Filter set-up for like 5 months and never had an issue, but I have within the last month taken all of the Hygrophila difformis out of this tank. It seems to be mostly centering on the Lilaeopsis brasiliensis and the Cryptocoryne wendtii. I have some excel and could attempt to overdose (I did this once in my 55 gal succusfully however it did effect some plants like the Microsorium pteroptus and the leaves turned almost burnt black??? anyone ever heard of that?)

What should I do?

Pic -


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

No one has any advice for my Hair algea issue?


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## uncskainch (Feb 22, 2005)

What a great tank journal -- thanks for sharing what you've learned. The rescaped tank looks great! Did any of the fish or plants have any problem readjusting after you redid everything? And is there anything you're still not happy with or want to change? I looks great to me -- I especially like the arc of driftwood through the center.


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## pittiepride (Feb 13, 2007)

I would assume you need to look at your nutrient levels. The hygro is a fast growing plant and by removing all of it you may have too much of something in your water allowing the algae to gain a foot hold.

Great tank btw.

Kara


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

uncskainch said:


> What a great tank journal -- thanks for sharing what you've learned. The rescaped tank looks great! Did any of the fish or plants have any problem readjusting after you redid everything? And is there anything you're still not happy with or want to change? I looks great to me -- I especially like the arc of driftwood through the center.


I would say thats a hard question to answer. I started the tank thinking I didn't need to cycle as it was a used tank ( I was just learning then) so needless to say I lost a few fish. After I had finished cycling the tank the fish were sometimes rehomed or traded but i haven't had any die. As far as the plants, there I have lost or damaged beyond repair a lot, mostly from not knowing what plants could grow in what light, and from on of the rescapes where I was retarded and layed all the plants out (not in water) and the rescape took super long and a lot of the plants were in pretty bad shape when they went back in.

As far as the change, that will need to wait for some of the newer plants to fill in, I'm sure I won't be 100% happy, but I did a lot more planning for it this time so I am willing to wait it out.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

pittiepride said:


> I would assume you need to look at your nutrient levels. The hygro is a fast growing plant and by removing all of it you may have too much of something in your water allowing the algae to gain a foot hold.
> 
> Great tank btw.
> 
> Kara


So say this is true, what is my next step?


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

iroc said:


> So say this is true, what is my next step?


I'd either put the hygro back, or add another fast growing stem or floating plant (such as Duckweed) and then overdose with Excel.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

RESGuy said:


> I'd either put the hygro back, or add another fast growing stem or floating plant (such as Duckweed) and then overdose with Excel.


Kicks self for trading all his HD............................... 

Ok let me think of opitions here, what about adding more plants which are already est? and adding excel?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

well something strange has happened. The leaves on the cripts which had the algae have died, but there seems to be very very little other effected areas. I did not start a excel treatment or add any new plants. I am wondering am I just buying time and it will reappear again soon and I should contunie with the excel plan or should I wait it out and not do anything until I see a reamergence?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

So tank update time:

I have had a couple of issues with this tank lately becuase I buld a new stand which can hold both my 55 gal on top and a lower shelf for this 20 gal. During the move some of the scape was damaged, and I have been working for the last 27 days stright so I haven;t had a lot of time to play around with it. I added a couple of new plants (from the swap and shop section) and I now have a pretty "dutch" feel to the tank. Some of the plants have had a rough time but they seem to be making a recovery

9 X Microsorium pteroptus 
1 X Anubias Nana 
3 X Ammannia gracilis 
6 X Alternanthera reineckii 
3 X Cryptocoryne wendtii
2 X Crinum thaianum
10 X Ludwigia repens 
6 X Myriophyllum matogrossensis
4 X Ludwigia 'Cuba'
Carpeting Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
All driftwood covered in Vesicularia dubyana or Selaginella uncinata


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

So no tank update today but I do have a pic of one of my Rams from the 55 gal..........Sorry I like the photo had to post it


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

man

i wonder where you got the moss from, looks like hell


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> man
> 
> i wonder where you got the moss from, looks like hell


Leave my moss alone, it's not it's fault that I don't know what I'm doing


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I need some ideas for this tank, I am really not happy with the layout, or something. I think 1st off is I need to figure out what to do about my CO2 and ferts, at this point my ferts get added when i remember which is bad, and my CO2 although it seemed to make a huge difference in the begining doen's seem to do much now. I think I am going to remove the Crinum thaianum as it is very big for the tank and kinda domanates the top of the water line. But I need some help with the rest and what to do next


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

I like how the tank looks now, except that dead moss .... :icon_sad:


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

yea looks like you arent adding any c02 there is alot of algae


when i get my shipment of moss, and if i have extra ill give you some for free


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

It's not that I'm not adding CO2 it's just a DIY that I think is not sending any kinda controled amount, plus there was a week last week where I basicly did nothing in the tank due to being busy, I need to do a clean out and refresh the plants, cut away dead stuff etc. Thats why I asked about the arrangement becuase the 2 go hand and hand. 

FYI the fish pic that started the moss comment was from the 55 gal low light tank and that moss was beautiful when I put it in a month ago but it is drity from to many plecos

thanks for the offer of free moss I will always upgrade my plants


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

yea lol i would restart and take off the moss, its like completely dead


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> yea lol i would restart and take off the moss, its like completely dead


Yeah, I agree.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Ok well looking closely that needs to go and I need to trim off all the dead leaves. Hopfully it will all work out and look good still


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

So after looking again at that tank, i see lots of dead plants or at the least damaged plants. 

9 X Microsorium pteroptus - *remove dead plants*
1 X Anubias Nana - *remove damaged areas*
3 X Ammannia gracilis - *remove damaged areas*
6 X Alternanthera reineckii - *remove damaged areas*
3 X Cryptocoryne wendtii - *remove damaged plants/areas*
2 X Crinum thaianum - *moving to 55 gal *
10 X Ludwigia repens - *doing fine *
6 X Myriophyllum matogrossensis -*moving to 55 gal *
4 X Ludwigia 'Cuba' - *doing fine*
Carpeting Lilaeopsis brasiliensis - *almost all of this has turned brown, is there any saving it, or do I need to toss it all out*
All driftwood covered in Vesicularia dubyana or Selaginella uncinata - *Remove dead moss, reattach healthy stems*


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## FelixAvery (Jan 11, 2007)

nice journal, you should toss in a load of stems(unplanted so you can easily remove them), toss out all the water, and start again with a leaner water colum, dont add anything and 50% water change every day for a week

then wait another week doing only 2 water changes, and then rescape
you should then have a really nice algae free tank
and stable


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

FelixAvery said:


> nice journal, you should toss in a load of stems(unplanted so you can easily remove them), toss out all the water, and start again with a leaner water colum, dont add anything and 50% water change every day for a week
> 
> then wait another week doing only 2 water changes, and then rescape
> you should then have a really nice algae free tank
> and stable



Whats a "leaner water colum"?

I can take out all the water but I wait 2 weeks to clean out the dead plants, i am getting married in 2 .5 weeks and it's a tomorrow or not for 4 weeks when i get back from my honeymoon


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

This suggestion is for after the honeymoon - and congratulations too!

How about biting the bullet and going pressurized? You could put a manifold and run the CO2 on both the 55 and the 20 gallon. If you do, I recommend getting a good quality regulator all in one setup. Either Rex's or the best one from Aquariumplants.com. I have both of them. It will make an incredible difference and make it easier to be algae free.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Betowess said:


> This suggestion is for after the honeymoon - and congratulations too!
> 
> How about biting the bullet and going pressurized? You could put a manifold and run the CO2 on both the 55 and the 20 gallon. If you do, I recommend getting a good quality regulator all in one setup. Either Rex's or the best one from Aquariumplants.com. I have both of them. It will make an incredible difference and make it easier to be algae free.



Thanks a lot, I have been thinking about going with a CO2 tank for awhile, actualy someone that I gave a sword to on this site said they had an extra one, I will ask them what is the deal with that.

today I am going to do at least a 75% water change and try to manualy clean as much of the dead/algae stricten plants out as possible. I also am going to switch around some of the placement so that if I ever get a carpet to grow it can have plenty of room.

Question about the hairgrass, the browning strands should they be removed? or should I leave them for now as they in some cases still have healthy runners?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Whewwwwwwwwwwww that was a long process. 1st I removed 50% of the water, then removed the plants one by one. I had a 20 gal tub filled with water and as i transfered them into the water I removed algae stictened leaves/stems or dead growth. This was a painsteaking process for the hairgrass. I removed all the hardscape and cut free all the moss that was bothering everyone so much :lol.

After getting all that water out I retired some Java ferns to my bent wood that goes accross the tank and tied the only good moss I had to it. i changed some of the plant placement as they went back in as I removed a couple of types to my 55 gal. this time I bought some tweezers so replanting went way faster ( I have big fingers)
1. background plants went it
2. hardscape back in
3 forground cover and plants.

I can't do the switch over to a CO2 tank for right now but I am going to stay onto of my DIY CO2 in the meantime.

Bad pic becuase of glare but you can get the idea


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

Well good job on all that hard work! Looks like it all paid off! The tank looks nice


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

RESGuy said:


> Well good job on all that hard work! Looks like it all paid off! The tank looks nice



You know what I have learned with aquascaping............... how to look into the future, like when the Alternanthera reineckii grow and peek out over the wood in the left hand side, or the Ludwigia repens fills up and out some covering the filter......man I love scaping:icon_smil


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

lol yea scaping is fun, When you find a nice scape and you look at your, and say wow that is ugly, you just wanna rip it tank apart and do another scape


what happened to the vals?


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> lol yea scaping is fun, When you find a nice scape and you look at your, and say wow that is ugly, you just wanna rip it tank apart and do another scape


Indeed!!!:icon_surp


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> lol yea scaping is fun, When you find a nice scape and you look at your, and say wow that is ugly, you just wanna rip it tank apart and do another scape
> 
> 
> what happened to the vals?


They weren't vals they were Crinum thaianum and I moved them and some Myriophyllum matogrossensis into my 55 gal. It's mainly becuase they are about 4 feet long and would basicly block the light from a lot of the smaller plants. Give the layout about a month or so to bouce back, I had 2 large handfulls of dead or algae strictened flora, and in the case of the Alternanthera reineckii I lost about 9" of stem (which is why you can't really see them hiding behind the wood in the left corner).

but you will notice all the dead moss is gone yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, so you don'r have to have that eye sore anymore LOL.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I have a quart size z-lock of Java Moss on the way, but I am having a hard time figureing how to tie it to the main driftwood, and keep it tight

Any ideas?


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

strand by strand


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

strand by strand isn't an attachment method it's a placement guide


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

iroc said:


> I have a quart size z-lock of Java Moss on the way, but I am having a hard time figureing how to tie it to the main driftwood, and keep it tight
> 
> Any ideas?


Check this site: http://www.aquamoss.net/Articles/MossLog.htm


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Fishing line seems to be the best that I have found as the article states above.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

My problem has always been the main piece of wood I have seems very hard to tie to. But it looks like the article and the posters here are just saying try try try and it will turn out alright.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

yea, there always seems to be some kind of hang up. just wrap that fishing line tight and it will work out.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well when the moss gets here I will post some new pics. I have been adding some ferts to the tank. And keeping a good eye on the DIY CO2 to make sure it's bubling at a good rate.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

It has been awhile and I don't have good news to report.

I got in a lot of new moss so I could replace the drying moss that was all over the tank. I did the change out and that night my light basicly died. Money wise things have been tight as I am getting married in like 6 days so just going out to get a new light couldn't happen. I tried getting one off of swap and shop and was offered a great deal but that to was out of my price range. I ended up getting one from someone who is local but they haven't yet dropped it off. I really couldn't see in the tank at all and no temp light I could provide.

Last night one of the 2 55watt bulbs came on for about 5 hours ???? I donno how but it didn;t come on again this morning. I was able to take a pic while it was on and thought I would update the forum.

Here it is in half light


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

*YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAA the plants have light again*

Ok well my new light came today, I pluged it in right away. I think it has different blubs then my last one as the light looks more blue. It said I could chose the blubs it came with but they sent 2 X 55 watt 50/50 actinic and daylight bulbs. Are these good for a high light tank? the ones I had before I think were just white light, which ones are better becuase I still have the old blubs and could easily switch both or one of them out.

I am soooooooooooooo happy all the plants lived (well the hairgrass is basicly dead but it wasn't doing so hot anyway) I will look into a different carpet plant when I get back from my honeymoon.

new pic tomorrow as I don't have my camera tonight.


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

change the actinic


i think you tied you moss to thick
seems like the front is bunched with moss but the back and top has non
you could actually see the moss blunging out

if will grow faster if it is spreaded evenly since light would get to the lower parts


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> change the actinic
> 
> 
> i think you tied you moss to thick
> ...


Both bulbs look the same so I think one of the tubes in each two tube bulb is actinic, you think the stright daylight bulbs would be better?


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

yea it would plant dont use actinic its for corals...

the actinic should look like sky blue


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Considering my tank stats, can anyone reccomend a good low carpet plant, and a good fert dosing, when I come back from my honey moon I am going to pay some real attention to getting this back into shape.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

So I haven't retied the most as I am just very busy right now, but I will most likely try to handle that when i get back. I switched out the blubs for the stright Daylight ones and the plants are really feeling having the light back.

Here is a pic from this morning










And one of my DIY stand for both the 55 gal and this 20 gal










I am still looking for a good carpeting plant, any ideas?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

*Things aren't going so well*

Well I just got back from my honnymoon and things have taken a bad turn in this tank while I was gone.

1st off somewhere while I was gone the filter got turned off and all the fish were dead upon my arrival, I had my mother coming by every couple of days to feed them but she hadn't noticed that the fish were not present when she put the food in the tank. Also the plants look terrible, I'm not sure what it is but they are all limp and have lost a lot of there color. I did a 75% water change, and I am hoping that they bounce back. during the water change i moved some of them around as I noticed one piece of my hardscape (driftwood twig piece accross front) was actualy rotting and was most likely not a piece that should be in the tank. All the carpeting has died (but I expected that after the hair algae outbreak a month or so ago). I have some crypts showing up today or tomorrow which I will be using to fill in the middle ground and front of this tank. My wife has offered to buy me some new fish for fathers day which I am going to pick up today. After I get the new plants in I will take some pics but honestly the tank isn't much to look at right not as my once healthy plants look drab.


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## KnaveTO (May 25, 2007)

Oh man... sorry to hear that! Now you are scaring me to the point of hiring a tank maintenance man for when I travel for work and and my volunteer board meetings.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

KnaveTO said:


> Oh man... sorry to hear that! Now you are scaring me to the point of hiring a tank maintenance man for when I travel for work and and my volunteer board meetings.


I wish I would have done that, at the very least my filter wouldn't have been off killing everything.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I am really concerned about this tank there is some purple stuff on the driftwood










And this strange white fuzz on my anubius











Can anyone tell me what this is? (post copied in problems section)


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

would you care to take a picture of the whole tank now?

did both of your tanks die?... even the moss is gone?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I removed the moss right when I got back becuase it looked horrible, I will take a pic tomorrow as I am going to bed now, basicly everything looks dead however by scrubbing I have gotten the white fuzzy stuff off the anabus and most of the purple stuff is also gone, I did a 50 water change while I was at it to catch some floating white fuzzy things I saw in the sand. Also if you look back some posts I removed the skinny stick as it might have been the cause of all the mold


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

So here are some images of my poor plants, these are from this morning. I have been hoping they would bounce back but the chances are slim to none now so................. ( I will be accepting donations of new plants :icon_smil )

Alternanthera reineckii 










Ammannia gracilis and Ludwigia 'Cuba'










If you look back even a week ago you can see the color changes in these plants, it's really sad, whats worse is I don't know exactly why.


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

i guess i could donate some plants... pm me if you want to work it out


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> i guess i could donate some plants... pm me if you want to work it out


Thanks, but I might be ok now

I removed ALL the dead plants tonight, it was a huge mess and removed about 55% of the water just to be able to get all the dead floating stuff out. Then I moved a nice piece of driftwood from my 55 gal into the tank. It had a large anaibus attached as well as some xmas moss and a small amount of java fern. I then took 4 Crinum thaianum and put 2 in each corner to give the tank some flow, I finished up with 4 Cryptocoryne beckettii and 4 Cryptocoryne wendtii to make up a low brush like ground covering

The new fastly done scape ( not sure how permant things are right now but it will do)


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I have some new plants on the way from some members here (thanks greg and Tom Barr) and it should make the tank look a lot better. I am getting a fist sized ball of Xmas moss,3 Stems of Eustralis stellata narrow,6 stems of L cuba, 2 stems of A. reineckii, 4 stems of L. aromamatica and a plantlet of tiger lotus

any ideas about placement?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Anyone have any ideas.........................?


Sorry to vent here but let me pose a question. When someone sets up a tank everyone seems to have ideas about what should be moved or more of this should be over there. But I have seen this many times when someone asks before they plant no one says anything.

End vent...........


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## CherylH (Jan 2, 2007)

I think I'd be inclined to cluster most of the plants on the left. The stems behind the stump and the lotus and the far, left front. I'd also move the taller crypts towards the left and let any lower plants have the right. Moss goes on the branchy part of the wood?

btw--your vent is ignored. I'm just feeling happy and sociable today--last day of school. :icon_smil


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

CherylH said:


> I think I'd be inclined to cluster most of the plants on the left. The stems behind the stump and the lotus and the far, left front. I'd also move the taller crypts towards the left and let any lower plants have the right. Moss goes on the branchy part of the wood?
> 
> btw--your vent is ignored. I'm just feeling happy and sociable today--last day of school. :icon_smil


thanks for the advice.............


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## Casty (Sep 28, 2006)

I'd just say next time you're on vacation, if it's less than 2 weeks, don't bother having someone feed the fish. Fish can live a very long time w/o food. If you don't already, try getting a timer for your lights. Then if you are on vacation you shouldn't have to worry too much about the tank.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

This is a perfect example of how the internet is one of the best things to happen to aquaria, nice transformations! I'm laughing with you at the reef background and the clown puke gravel, lol, reminds me of when I used to decorate my tanks with ugly glass prizms when I was a kid.

Sometimes scaping is a frustrating venture until you get used to growing plants for a while and learn what you can and can't do with them. I'm just now leaving the plant growing phase for the scaping, so as far as suggestions for you, all I can say is concentrate on growing healthy plants and let the scaper come to you over time. Otherwise, keep what you know is tall and fast in the back, medium growers in the middle, ground cover in front etc. Try to envision a natural setting in the outside world that is pleasing to you and create sketches of your intended outcome before setting up the hard scape. Use plants as accents to the hard scape and they will grow in to compliment the composition of the tank, keep the contrast of color and shape in mind when placing plants next to each other and use it to make them pop. Most of all, study others' tanks and keep growing!


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

*Casty* - The lights were on a timmer on a 6am, off at 10am on at 2pm off at 9pm. The issue with not feeding the fish well all of my fish died while I was gone.
*jaidexl* I know what you mean about taking small steps in this hobby. I think I jumped way to fast and way to high, but at this point I have been thinking about steping backwords a couple of steps.

I have hair algae in my 55 gal which I think is due to light/CO2 ratios. Since I lost all of my plants in my 20 gal and moved a bunch from the 55 now I have it in both tanks. I have in the past had mixed results using excel to cure this issue (I guess cure is a strong word considering in the 55 it always comes back). I have been toying with the idea of getting preussized CO2 for both tanks which would give me a lot more control to help fix this issue.

Both tanks are visualy pleasing to my eye and have been for some time. I think I blew my own head up by growing fast growing easy plants (read:water wisteria) and thinking I had conquered the "growing healthy plants" phase you spoke of.

At this point I would like to add the "red" plants I have gotten from the other members here, what I was looking for more then anything was some ideas about good placement of those stems just to give me some ideas............


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Well, I'm no pro but what I think I understand is that red plants should be offset rather than uniform. Like if you have one, it should be a little to the right or left but not all the way at the end or in the middle, and there shouldn't be too much uniformness (< word?) with their placement. I think I might have done a no no in my most recent setup by putting two A.reineckiis each a foot in from either side of the tank, I tried to contrast that by making one clump way bigger than the other and more up front while the other clump is farther back and still very short being recent clippings. Personally I think too much following rules is a bit ridiculous in this branch of the hobby that i call art, but I've been big into many forms of art since I was a child and I do understand that composition is a very important factor, but I think experimentation and venturing from the norm is important to any art form.

I know what you mean about wisteria, I've been trying to rid my tanks of it since last summer and am finally able to replace it with plants that are more pleasing to me. Of course I still have clippings hanging around, it's a very useful plant.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

What I tend to like in tanks is a natural look, in the "wild" in fact plants tend to grow in groups, true not a perfectly uniformed look but like plants grow together.

I think I will not do the many small groups as this is such a small tank and the room isn't really there for that.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Got all the plants from greg and Tom Barr today, there was way more then I expected. (Tom the ppl at Albay Aquarium refered to me as the secert man LOLOLOLOL) anyways, it was a little more then I was ready to take on after a long day at work and I might rescape this weekend.

I didn't know what the long val-like plant was Tom maybe you can tell me.(it's in the right rear of the pic)

I will put up some better pics this weekend

for now the new scape is.................


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

im starting to think ur filter isnt big enough for your tank

and about you jebo? do you like it? does it work good? no fire yet?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> im starting to think ur filter isnt big enough for your tank
> 
> and about you jebo? do you like it? does it work good? no fire yet?


The filter is a whisper 20, When I took that pic however I had just planted and had dug up some yuk from under the sand.

This is my 2nd Jebo, the 1st one only lasted about 8 months (which is wack) this one however I bought from ebay for 30.00 and for the price it couldn't be beat. On the list of things to do in the future is 1. get a better light for my 55 gal (2 shop lights with 80 watts each = not enough for me :smile: ) and a better filter for the 55 gal, then when this jebo dies I will get a better light which that will last longer.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

So here are the plants that showed up from the swap n shop section members. However since 1 of them couldn't give me what they thought they threw in some extras and the other one sent like 6 kinds of plants when I only was expecting 3. I don't know what they all are so maybe you can help
<<<<<<<THESE ARE ONLY THE NEW PLANTS IN THE TANK>>>>>>>>

PM from Tom maybe you can match them up
_"Likely gave you some Cyperus, Rotala green etc.
There might be a Hydro short pointy leaf in there.

Regards, 
Tom Barr"_

1. - From Tom Barr I got 4 of these









2. - Some from Tom some from Greg 7 total









3. - From Greg I got 4 of these









4. - Tiger Lotus from Greg









5. - From Tom Barr I got 1 of these









I am trying to define each so I can find out there grow out patterens for rescaping this tank.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

1. looks like some kind of crypt or echinodorus

2 and 3 both look like ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata (cuba) at different stages of growth and acclimation.

5. Cyperus helferi?, hard to be positive that close up and still acclimating.


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Jebo filters last on average 1 year. No replacement parts. I have one here in Taiwan that I bought as the price was a steal. It broke down after 1 1/2 years and I took it to the shop I bought it at to complain. His comment was I did better then most people if I passed the one year mark!! (by the way the are made in China and not Taiwan. The filters for Taiwan last many years!)


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

jaidexl - re gard your guess for 1 I thought 1 looked like a crypt to but I can't find one that looks like this anywhere

regarding your guess for 2 and 3 they have slightly differet leaves, you can't really see it from the pic but 2 has little jaggad points on it's leaves while 3's are smooth, although I'm sure at least one of them is ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata (cuba) 


tcampbell - I don't have a jebo filter, it is a whisper 20.
I have a jebo Light, maybe thats what you were taking about.......


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

How do you find the light?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

tcampbell said:


> How do you find the light?


 huh????? Maybe we are having a english problem


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

im guess it where did you find that light


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

If that is the question I got the jebo light from ebay, it was a flulk thing becuase the sellar was local so I paid no shipping


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

iroc said:


> jaidexl - re gard your guess for 1 I thought 1 looked like a crypt to but I can't find one that looks like this anywhere
> 
> regarding your guess for 2 and 3 they have slightly differet leaves, you can't really see it from the pic but 2 has little jaggad points on it's leaves while 3's are smooth, although I'm sure at least one of them is ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata (cuba


Hmm, interesting, 2 is a spitting image of what mine does at the start of acclimation to a new tank with new growth on the top. If it's spiky, then I'm stumped. Mine looks different from time to time depending on the situation, but I've never seen jaged edges.


If 1 is a crypt, I thought maybe Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green Gecko'.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I think they are deffintly different plants as one is turning very light green and the other one (jagged edged one) are getting a purple tint....

Good guess on the crypt, I looked at pics and it looks damn close.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well here is an update.

The two plants which looked diferent before now look that same and I am conviniced they are both ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata (cuba). I had some of the stems which had a hard time after being planted and had to be removed but they is plenty left. The anubis which was really put in there to help when all my other plants died was removed. In fact I took the whole piece of wood out as it was distracting what I want to do with the tank. I added some java fern and grouped all the ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata (cuba) together. I am getting close to being able to get the pressurized CO2 for this tank and my 55 gal so some of the equipment will become more hidden in the next couple of weeks. I am thinking that once some of the plants grow in a little I will try to hide the filter intake a little better.


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## hughitt1 (Jun 19, 2006)

Looking very good


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

hughitt1 said:


> Looking very good


Thanks, considering I lost almost every plant and every fish about a month ago I am very pleased


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well the fish deaths contunie, I have noticed that these deaths occur anything I add a bunch of plants, but the plants come from trusted sources, does anyone think this could be the release of gases when I plant them. I have lost 3 tiger barbs in this tank in the last week and both days that fish ended up dead were proceeded by me planting some new plants.

The other question I had is could it be from plant-fish-CO2 ratio. I have less plants and less fish in this tank then ever before but the same amount of CO2 and filtation, although I have been thinking about changing the whisper 20 filter to the emperor filter I just took off my 55 gal, would that make a difference? what could this be?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Could be a lot of things, could just be stress, I've had tetras die off one by one especially after big prunings or rescaping. Sometimes they have just lived long enough before we get them and any bit of stress is enough to finalize the deal, especially with wild caught fish. What are all your parameters, ammonia / nitrite / nitrate / ph / kh / temp? Maybe something might pop up there. We'll at least be able to get an idea of how much CO2 is in there, I think if your plants aren't pearling like an upside down rain forest, then there probably isn't too much CO2 for fish.


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## LondonDragon (Mar 15, 2007)

Been reading your thread, shame about the loses, I have a heavy planted tank with a few fish and I turn on the air pump once the lights go off and only turn it off when the lights come on. Could be CO2 poisoning!
Good luck


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I dunno, this is still DIY co2 right? I could be wrong but IME I've never been able to pump that much juice into a medium sized tank with DIY, then again mine was a 30gl not a 20. I still do the night time airstone thing on my DIY tank, though. I wouldn't be surprised if it were just stress, especially in a tank that small. This tank's been through many changes and some fish just can't take that. It's always the ones that run and hide, the ones that are nipping at your arm for food every time you go in are the super troopers and could care less if their universe changes every day as long as they get some food out of the deal.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

yea maybe I wasn't clear it's not that I think I have to much co2 for the tank (it is still DIY until thursday of this week) I was think the oppsite like I had removed so many pants that now the fish were being killed by the amount of CO2.

Maybe it's to hot in there I will do a batty of tests tonght when i get home and relay them here


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

here is the scoop I lost 3 more during the day which leaves 1 tiger barb and 2 clown plecos

water was wayyyyyyy to hot 95 degrees( I guess with the weather I don't even need a heater on) I turned the heater down to the lowest setting

these were the settings when I came home:

PH 6.4
Nitrite 1.0 ppm
Nitrate 40 ppm
Amnonia 0

I did a 75% water change and then changed the whisper 20 filter (105 gph) to a Emperor 280 (280 gph)I had that used to be on my 55 gal.

Any advice is very welcome.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

95 degrees?!?!
Advice: Buy a fan and crank the AC if you have it!

Nitrite should be 0, but it sounds like the new filter will help that.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Ouch! Reminds me of a buddy, his son in law left the house after turning the AC off and when he came back everything in his reef was cooked at over 100F.

Hopefully the nitrite test was just inaccuracy, but I imagine there could have been a crash on the rise with those temps, at least you're not seeing ammonia too, everything should settle soon enough. Nitrates are higher than I would want them for fish, but I'm sure your 75% wc just fixed that.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

wow i live in tropical area, but never had an aquarium with 95-100 F temp. how did it went that high?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

the temp issue has to do with a heatwave out here. My heater was set at about 2 clicks above med, which is where it has been for like 8 months, however I lost a bunch of my fish and plants while on my honneymoon and i think it might have been this same issue (honnymoon was deffintly going to end in dead fish as my mother actidently turned off the filter) but the water was hot as well. I Have turned off the heater and will just monitor this more closely.

At this point I think I might get something different for this tank, I can trade the barb in (barb shouldn't be moved to my 55 gal community tank right? link here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/48390-re-setting-up-my-55-gal-3.html, I like the barbs but I can't really have anything else in the tank and I think 10-12 neons might look a lot better.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

*Algae Attack*

Man if it isn't one thing with this tank it's another. 

Lets update the last 2 months for history's sake:

Tank is healthly, I go on my hoonymoon, filter is turned off bt acident heatwave hits, I return to tank full of dead fish, and all plants except for Crinum thaianum completely melted or dead.

Get new shippments of plants (Vesicularia dubyana, Cryptocoryne wendtii "green gecko", Cryptocoryne wendtii "brown", Microsorum pteropus "broadleaf", Alternanthera reineckii, Hygrophila polysperma, Lagarosiphon madagascariensis, Myriophyllum mattogrossense, Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata ''Cuba'', Nymphaea lotus 'Zenkeri')

Not everything is added at the same time as they arrived at differnt times, however within a month plants are dying, then fish start to die. Check and heater is set way to high (most likely cause of fish deaths), I then change out filter to get a better water change out, and lower the heater for the summer (current temp 80 degrees) 

But this brings me to where I am now. A lot of the plants look horrible, I think the problem might be too much light not enough ferts and CO2, plus adding in the heat? Does this make sense?

The tank has 5.5 watts per gal (supplied by 2 55 watt 10000k bulbs) Persurized CO2 will be added on Thursday (Rex regulator) I have been doseing Seachem Florish 2 times a week (dose per bottles instuctions) substrate is florite with sand over it. Current livestock is 7 Aphyocharax rubripinnis.

Here are some pics of the algea and plants current condictions, any advice is very welcome.

Algae on Vesicularia dubyana










Cryptocoryne wendtii "green gecko" melting










Alternanthera reineckii in trouble










As I said any advice is welcome.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yeah, I think the light/fert ratio is really out of whack until the CO2 gets pressurized, that's a very high wpg so the rest should be a necessity. Problem with increasing one is that the plants increase their uptake of everything else to match, so whatever is lacking depletes fast then is gone and causes issues, too much light could also mean nitrate deficiency or micros etc. But algae isn't the end of the world, so I think you have a big light at the end of this tunnel.

Some of that looks like hair algae or staghorn or something, I would double dose excel until the pressurized canister is on for a while, pull some out by hand, remove infected leaves, slow attack. Then later on just make sure you make dosing changes slowly and one nutrient at a time and you should be good to go.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

After I get the pesurized CO2 running do I need to be adding something other then Seachem Florish? Should I contunie adding the excel after the pesurized CO2, won't that be to much?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Well, they're not really the same thing, so I don't think it can hurt anything. I've stopped excel in the past after going pressurized with no probs. I mainly used it to fight off hair algae, and pressurized was always enough to take over on it's own. I don't beleive it's actually the carbon in the excel that fights algae, it's rumored to have a sporicidal effect on it. I'm not positive about that, I just know it works in my tanks, but it is a different form of carbon than CO2, so combining them shouldn't hurt anything but might be overkill or wasteful. 

The plants' uptake will definitely increase once the pressurized CO2 gets going, so you'll want to keep an eye on nitrates and other macro nutrients, since flourish is only micro nutrients. You might even want to take on the EI dosing regiment with 50% weekly changes to make sure everything is in abundance at all times, and with 5wpg I think it's a good idea to do that to avoid constant deficiencies. I really want to start EI for my 65gl but it's a real pain to keep 30gl of my RO/DI water stocked up every week, and I can't simply use tap water since mine is horridly disgusting and proven deadly to fish and an overload on the nitrogen cycle in my tanks. Anyway, if you need dry ferts to dose macros, Rex Grigg offers them now at very good prices. Even with fish in my tank, my nitrates can diminish from plant uptake combined with water changes, so I have to dose it about once or twice a month to keep it above 5ppm. If you are not sure what ferts you might need, Rex explains it all on his main site which is linked on the left of his fert page. Once you have dry ferts in hand, you'll want to download and install Chuck's planted aquarium calculator to help you mix the right amounts into the tank.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Shorten lighting hours, increase Flourish dose to every other day (well that is what I do on my 10 gallon).


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

tropicalfish said:


> Shorten lighting hours, increase Flourish dose to every other day (well that is what I do on my 10 gallon).


How much florish do you add to your 10 gal every other day?


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

2mL. Flourish Excel will be not as effective in a 20 gallon, you will need more other nutrients.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Maybe I wasn't as exact as I should be. I use Seachem florish http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Flourish.html once a week. I only use Seachem florish excel http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/FlourishExcel.html when I have an algae issue.

Which product are you useing.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Only the Flourish.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I actually just bought some ferts from Rex so I will be dosing differently then I have been in the past..............

When some actually growth happens in the tank I will post before and after pics.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Ok quick pic update

I removed everything that looked algae covered or dead, that was per the CO2 issues, so things are still a little raggard but they will diffently be improving very soon now with the CO2 running well and the dry ferts .

So here are both the 55 and the 20 on there DIY stands (I had to move them closer together becuase I needed room in the office)










and here is the revamped restart of the 20 gal


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## MyMonkey (Jul 17, 2007)

Tagging along. Very nice.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I had to make some changes again  the Java fern which I bought as a large plant (I feel kinda ripped of as it was really a bunch of small plants tied to what looked like a coconut doormat) started to die. I have amazingly always had a horrible time growing Java fern, and it always seems to die. Anyway I removed the doormat java fern from the tank and tied the ferns to the driftwood. If it would stop being brown it would look great but it is looking very very bad at the moment.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Probably a good thing tying them to the wood. Just let them be, java fern is notorious for dying off during acclimation and also does some pretty strange things to reproduce, including black/brown spots, lumps that look like disease, and whole leaves dying as tiny plantlets sprout from them. The dead leaves release or rot away allowing the plantlets to float to there destination. My first java fern was the most pathetic looking thing for the longest time, I always thought I had it in too much light, but I let it be and now have 4 huge ones and uncountable babies.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well I added/removed some plants today and started my ferts I thought I should take a new shot.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

After a talk with Rex this is the new dosing regrime

20 GAL

Mon, Wed, Fri

KNO3 - ¼ teaspoon in the 20 gallon (mix with tank water and re-add)
K2S04 - 1/4 teaspoon in the 20 gallon (mix with tank water and re-add)
KH2P04 - Mix 1 1/2 teaspoons with 250 ml water. Add 4ml to 20 gal.

Tue, Thur, Sat

Plantex CSM+B - Mix 1 tablespoon with 1 cup water, add 4 ml for 20 gal.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I have just learned a lesson that would have been good to learn 8 months ago LESS LIGHT, however the fact is I have this light and this Jebo won't let you unplug one fixture ( it doesn't seem to have a problem only letting one work however Hummph) anyways I have had some algae problems but by recently cutting back the amount of time I have the ligths on from 11 to 6 and contunieing to fert as well as running a airstone during lights off ( only until I get a solinoid) the algae has not been growing, hopefully I have in under control but this is why I haven't completed cleaned everything. I have added some more plants and I am hopping to have some good soild growth within the next month.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well time for a full update.

Equipment:

20 Gal
Topfin 150 watt heater set to 73 degrees
Rex grigg regulator running 2 bps
Lifetech 2 X 55watt 10000K On 6 hours a day
Emperior 400 HOB

Flora:

10 X Rotala sp. 'Colorata'
10 X Lagarosiphon madagascariensis
30 X Myriophyllum matogrossense both ‘Red’ and ‘Green’
2 X Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Brown'
6 X Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig'
10 X Hygrophila polysperma
10 X Microsorium pteropus ‘Narrow leaf ‘
6 X Nesaea crassicaulis 
3 X Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba'
1 X Nymphaea lotus 'Zenkeri'
5 X Blyxa Japonica
Vesicularia dubyana
Vesicularia sp. ''Christmas''
Riccia fluitans 

Fauna:

1 X Mikrogeophagus altispinosus
3 X Peckoltia pulcher
7 X Aphyocharax anisitsi
30 X Neocaridina denticulata sinensis 

Ferts:

Every other day:
KNO3 - ¼ teaspoon in the 20 gallon (mix with tank water and re-add)
K2S04 - 1/4 teaspoon in the 20 gallon (mix with tank water and re-add)
KH2P04 - Mix 1 1/2 teaspoons with 250 ml water. Add 4ml to 20 gal.

Days I don't dose above:
Plantex CSM+B - Mix 1 tablespoon with 1 cup water, add 4 ml for 20 gal.

PH - 6.4
KH - 5
Nitrate - 15
Nitrite - 0
Amonia - 0

Hopefully I have found a mix that will prevent future algae breakouts. I cleaned a great deal of it out today when I did some rearranging and planting.

Pic will follow tonight after it gets dark out side.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Here are some bad pics as I ran outta time last night and didn't feel like cleaning the glass or making last minute movement of the bog wood.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Looks like things are starting to respond a little, the moss looks really good so far. From your specs, the only thing I would change is the temp, with SA tropicals in the tank you might want it up around 78 degrees.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

jaidexl said:


> Looks like things are starting to respond a little, the moss looks really good so far. From your specs, the only thing I would change is the temp, with SA tropicals in the tank you might want it up around 78 degrees.


the tank actual stays about 78 degrees the heater is more of a fall back so it doesn't get cold, the moss looks better everyday


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Man I wish my damn angelfish would stop ripping my moss up, he doesn't know he just about big enough to be a meal.

I saw your music info in your 55 thread, what is it with us music guys and fish tanks? I just added you on myspace (dshoka).


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

jaidexl said:


> Man I wish my damn angelfish would stop ripping my moss up, he doesn't know he just about big enough to be a meal.
> 
> I saw your music info in your 55 thread, what is it with us music guys and fish tanks? I just added you on myspace (dshoka).



LOL you know whats funny is my wife was watching cribs the other day and ALL the big rappers had huge fish tanks, she said the same thing........


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

You should probably switch to a canister filter to minimize CO2 loss.


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## Blacksunshine (Oct 11, 2006)

hey man the tanks looking great! I really like the transition from a jungle type to a more refined aquascape. very nice. hope you can keep that lotus short. mine go right to the water surface and blocks light from everyone.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Blacksunshine said:


> hey man the tanks looking great! I really like the transition from a jungle type to a more refined aquascape. very nice. hope you can keep that lotus short. mine go right to the water surface and blocks light from everyone.


I am actually counting on the lotus getting big thats why I put java moss and fern under it becuase I figured they could stand a slight light reduction

Thanks for the complament, hopefully now that I have gotten control of the algae (1 week with no new growth) things will turn around


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Ok update time.

Things are starting to fill in. In about a month this tank should look pretty good.

Flora:

10 X Rotala sp. 'Colorata'
10 X Lagarosiphon madagascariensis
30 X Myriophyllum matogrossense both ‘Red’ and ‘Green’
2 X Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Brown'
6 X Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig'
10 X Hygrophila polysperma
10 X Microsorium pteropus ‘Narrow leaf ‘
6 X Nesaea crassicaulis 
3 X Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba'
1 X Nymphaea lotus 'Zenkeri'
5 X Blyxa Japonica
6 X Alternanthera reineckii
1 X Commenlinaceae (green)
Vesicularia dubyana
Vesicularia sp. ''Christmas''
Riccia fluitans 





Fauna:


1 X Mikrogeophagus altispinosus
3 X Peckoltia pulcher
7 X Aphyocharax anisitsi
15 X Neocaridina denticulata sinensis 

Pic taken tonight not photoshoped


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Updated pic the tank is doing fine when it comes to plants however the Neons have basicly all died, please see link thread for discussion

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/51119-neon-killing-20-gal.html


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well I have been having issue witht eh faunna in this tank, but now that all the neons died I think it's time for an update.


Tank this morning when I woke up










GH has been high in this tank and the PH was rather low. After all the neons died I was more attenive of the scape. The moss was getting way to much light and was damaged in the removing of dead fish.

Anyways So I dieidce well I have 15 CRS in this tank and 3 Clown plecos maybe I should do some clean up of older plants..

I wanted and a rock as a center piece ( I always use wood wanted to try something different). Then I got hit with the dreaded, horrible urge to RESCAPE

So just to make things interesting I dicided I should completely repump both tanks and install the new bubble counters, and move the tank 20" apart. I know I'm retarded.

An hour into everything I am past the moving of tanks, and resetting up all CO2 lines, bubble counters, lights moved around (more on that in another thread).

The tank is really scaped, I thought a lot about this looking this way and the pumping now makes sends, tomorrow I will finish the stands........
removed some plants for looks some becuase they grow better in the other tank, put some in for the reverse reason

Flora:

20 X Myriophyllum matogrossense both ‘Red’ 
1 X Nymphaea lotus 'Zenkeri'
40 X Blyxa Japonica
6 X Alternanthera reineckii
3 X Crinum thaianum 
Riccia fluitans (tied to one rock)

Fauna:

3 X Peckoltia pulcher
17 X Neocaridina denticulata sinensis 

PH 7.2
PH 40 ppm
GH 50 ppm


With that I give you the new scape.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

IMO the rock is too far at the back, and probably you should replace some blyxa at the front with something shorter.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

I think your rescape has got great potential. I think the rock is too centered. If I can make a small suggestion...see if you like this idea.

Move rock about 2 to 3 inches right...and forward a bit. move plants from back left, i believe is your Myriophyllum matogrossense and put behind rock. Plant Blyxa all the way to back left (your higher stalks if you have any).

Give it that one sided "spill out to foreground" look.

What do you think?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

gmccreedy said:


> I think your rescape has got great potential. I think the rock is too centered. If I can make a small suggestion...see if you like this idea.
> 
> Move rock about 2 to 3 inches right...and forward a bit. move plants from back left, i believe is your Myriophyllum matogrossense and put behind rock. Plant Blyxa all the way to back left (your higher stalks if you have any).
> 
> ...


Part of this is that the rock is actually a lot closer to the front then can be seen at this time. It is on a "hill" so moving it to the right or forward or back is actually kind of well it's impossible without removing everything. I know the look your refering to which I am am avtually aahuge fan of, but I was going for the tri-eye catching mode with the blyxa coving all substrate.

I might do that look next time as it is a very good suggustion , however this was way move involed then I planned on getting yesterday (read back like 3 weeks ago I was letting my old scape grow out LOL) and my wife actually likes the way this looks.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

lol...don't get me wrong. I like the look. Will look nice when the blyxa takes off and the Myriophyllum matogrossense bushes up for you after you propogate it a few times.

Good luck with it!!


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

this Myriophyllum matogrossense is the one plant for me thats always done well, I started with 6 stems about 4 months ago and it grows on avarage about 6-8 inches per week. 

Gald you like it, this makes me like both my tanks better now becuase I have one kinda dutch style and then this simple grassland tank


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well after the horrible killing of neons I'm not sure what to add to this tank in regards to Fauna, I know I will be adding another 30 ship (ordered today) maybe down the line 8 cardnals or something


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## Saraja87 (Jul 18, 2007)

What a big change! That blyxa looks awesome, it'll make a really pretty ground covering once it fills in. I love that grassy foreground look.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

I like the new scape very much. What are you using now to diffuse CO2? Forgive me if I missed it


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Thanks a lot sarah, I really like it to.





eyebeatbadgers said:


> I like the new scape very much. What are you using now to diffuse CO2? Forgive me if I missed it


I use some ADA glass knock off I bought at the ADA store out here.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

I have thought about the shorter plant in the front of the rock idea somemore and am really starting to get into the idea. What would make a good addtion?

I also think that I will move some of the taller plants around after they get back on there feet (last rescape took a long time and plants were in the wrong condiction, some needs to bounce back)


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Ok well I am trying to fine tune.

Moved the center rock slightly towards the lefthand front corner, And stood up the smaller, Riccia covered stone at a lean to the left.

I moved the Myriophyllum matogrossense to behind the rock as suggested but left the lotus as it is still growing very slowly.

I added 1 Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba', 8 Ludwigia arcuata and 1Cyperus helferi the left side behid the rock to build a larger mass of blended plants on the one side of the rock.

I will tanke some photos tonight.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Here is the best photo I could get with my kids jumping all over the room


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well the plants have started to grow in

added 6 X Alternanthera reineckii yesterday

Quick shot










And a shot of my fish tank corner


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

I see an albino rainbow shark!! Those were one of my favorites when I was a kid (2nd only to pictus cats  ). Plant health looks very good considering your substrate - or is there some "good stuff" buried under the coarse sand?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

unirdna said:


> I see an albino rainbow shark!! Those were one of my favorites when I was a kid (2nd only to pictus cats  ). Plant health looks very good considering your substrate - or is there some "good stuff" buried under the coarse sand?


the 55 is stright sand the 20 gal has florabase under the sand well at this point mixed in with the sand.


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## pet-teez (Aug 17, 2007)

I'm sure you know by now (through reading, etc) that gases can build up under the sand so be careful with that.

Interesting journal, and sorry to hear about the Honeymoon Fish Calamity, glad it is going better for you now.

-Cassie



iroc said:


> the 55 is stright sand the 20 gal has florabase under the sand well at this point mixed in with the sand.


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Well the most interesting twist on this jornal and most likely the last entry.

As this tank only homes CRS I will be breaking it down this weekend and rehomeing them in a 7 gal cube with a simlar scape. This tank will be throughly cleaned and turned into my 1st reef tank.

Wish me luck and look for the new 7 gal cube jornal starting on Sunday night


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## chizamp (Apr 12, 2008)

I just spent a good 45 minutes to an hour reading this entire thread. I enjoyed it thoroughly and learned quite a bit too. Thanks for the useful information. I guess you finally talked your wife into another tank, even if it is only 7 gal. I don't know if you still post to this forum or not, but if so, how is your first reef tank going?


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## Roc (Mar 16, 2007)

Glad you enjoyed the thread. The reef tank is actually doing quite well.

Here is a pic for about 2 weeks ago










I am breaking down my 55 gal planted tank right now (see post in S&S) and after my new baby gets a little older I am going to set-up a 90 gal reef where the 55 is now.

I think I will always keep the 7 gal shrimp tank. 1 becuase it is soooooooo easy to maintain and 2 becuase my wife actualy loves that tank.


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## gfj64 (May 21, 2010)

Where did you get that long peace of driftwood?


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## gfj64 (May 21, 2010)

where did you get the long peace of driftwood?


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