# The 700 gal indoor sunken garden project



## medicineman

Some of you in this forum might remember on several topics I've started on building bigger tank, attaching glass to concrete, slow UGF system, etc. They serve as part of simple research.

So here I review the whole thing and throw into a journal : sunken garden project.

Background : House under renovation. We used to have a space inside the house which is basically a huge terrarium cliff. The space measuring around 3 x 3.5 meter and some 5 meter tall and heavily planted with vines such as pothos, phylodendrons, etc. They live from an opening at the top (no roof) measuring 3 x 3 meter so sunlight could penetrate in for several hours. The decor of the thing is already too old and does look so much artificial (made in late 70's), so it is put down with the renovation. Since we love it such so much, the renovated house will feature the same garden at the same spot (which is inside the house right by the living room) but this time with much more realistic decor and a simple aquascape to spice it up.










Green : garden area
Light blue : void
Blue : second floor
Grey : stairs










(it used to look something like this in the past, with the walls textured and planted. If you notice the white strip which shows a man standing compared to the structure).

And so the garden was demolished along with heavy renovation project on the house. As renovation started, the garden was stripped to bare walls.



Going to drawing board, I came to a concept of making a paludarium thing that looks like a piece of nature scene, cut it and intall it in the house. That is of course complete with the cross section on the scenery which includes a cut of the water... and that means installing a plank of glass on one side to view it all.

I looked around for a decent landscaping and architectural contractor and end up with a company which occacionaly deals with great natural projects on hotels, apartements and private houses. As I have no capability of building this without a team and the expert in making highly artistic artificial rock/cliff gardening, DIY this kind of work by myself is almost impossible. High craftsmanship is needed and hundreads of hours will be spent even by a team of 3-4 people.

I made a top view concept of the sunken garden like this :










1. Water section of garden
2. Glass for viewing
3. Floor (lowered)
4. Dry section of garden 
5. Filter compartment
6. Floor (raised)

The glass part of the pond will measure around
1. 150 x 60cm
2. 200 x 60cm
and feature 19mm glass, open top style.

From the lower floor to the base of the pond it will be 25cm deep and the raised portion is around 50+cm, thus making the total depth practically exceeding 75cm.










The dry section of the garden, which is raised from the water section, will be integrated with cliffwork to form realistic scene which resembles what you can find in tropical waterfalls/dripping cliffs. Pockets for planting area will serve as starting points for terrestrial plants, climbing, aerial, epifits, mostly medium to low light plants including but not limited to : ferns, bromeliads, pothos, ivys, phylodendrons, orchids and many kinds of forest floor plants.


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## Pooky125

This looks like it's going to be an incredible project. I can't wait to see the inprogress posts!


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## medicineman

The filter will be built with a backwash system in order to minimize maintenance (its going to be quite big and would be tiresome to take care of when using regular filtration system). 

Rough illustration on the filter :










1. Inlet from pond.. overflow so the pond surface will be clean from film and trash.
2. Filter chambers. Some will be accordingly filled with brush, ceramic rings, bio balls, filter mat, sponge and filter floss.
3. Backwash drains (controled by individual valves)
4. Overflow drain, controlling water level at constant height.
5. Return line.

Building this way is not only cheaper (compared to factory built pressurized or canister system) but proved long lasting and very effective as well, even in koi ponds where the dirt and poop is much more than of an aquascape. With a simple turn of drain valve, backwashing is done and the clogged filter will be restored significantly hence reducing the frequency of filter maintenance.


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## Y0uH0

Really detailed. I am loving the whole idea even before things are being built. Great project you have got there,will be looking forward to the entire setup.


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## natx

This looks to be a fantastic project. I really like the concept of taking the aquarium out of the regular glass box format, and integreating it into the structure of your house.

Best of luck to you.


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## fresh_lynny

This will be one to watch. I am always interested in alternatives....especially where architecture is concerned. Nice plan, MM


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## JenThePlantGeek

I love these big DIY projects. Medicineman, I'm sure this is going to look so fantastic and I'm really looking forward to seeing what it is like when you get everything up and running!


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## organic sideburns

Go big or go home right MM? Two 260 gallons are enough for you? J/K, this looks like a great idea, will follow this journal!


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## medicineman

The filter is projected to be around 150 gallon in volume which is not overkill at all and in certain conditions (such as koi keeping) some may even be considered under capacity. But still that is a staggering 20% volume of the pond and I'm pretty sure for a planted setup such portion is more than enough. Such allows me to re-setup the pond for koi keeping or fancy goldfish or other form of non-aquascaping aquaria should sometime in the future under circumstances when I'm unable to take care of plants anymore. when building something of a bigger scale and it is integrated to your house, future things must be taken into account, unlike a stand alone tank which easily tucked away into the closet or disassembled to blocks of glass.

I plan to mimic nature more by adding an all time fresh water flow to the pond. Not at a large scale like of natural streams/rivers, but more like 15-20% WC each day that runs constantly - copying to smaller limit how fresh water supply huge ponds and how the pond empties by overflowing into another stream. Sure this might sound like an act of wasting water so I will make sure to add a water regulator to make sure the fresh water supply is constant and as necessary, such as calibrating to 250-500mL per minute. The benefits of adopting such system will also be carefully monitored and taken into consideration on whether to continue or discontinue.

Obvious drawbacks are :
- Limitation to using well water (tap water would be expensive)
- Wasting of water collumn fertilization because water is constantly changed
- Wasting of water
- Electrical bill for water pump
- More difficulty in maintaining lower temperature
- Water source dependent - bad water source equal to less satisfactionary result
Expected benefits :
- Good plant growth
- Fresh well water is rich in minerals and CO2 - less fert is needed
- Less pollution from bio load and fert/chemical residues
- Less algae from less accumulation of nitrates and phosphates
- No need of painful weekly WC
- Able to support considerable bio load without crashing or excessive filtration

There are several hundreads of gallon of water by the towers to supply the house water need (not only aquaria). So well pumps (2 wells) will be going on and off on a regular but not continous basis to help prolong longevity. These towers will also make pressure on the water regulator more constant.

If you observe point #4 on the filter compartment (overflow drain) is there to take care of excess water from the constant inflow of fresh water. It does it automatically and keeps water level constant too.


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## PinkRasbora

All I can say is holy crap, that is going to be huge. I hope you have diving gear. Well looks like an awsome idea. any recent pics you can add?


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## mr.gaboozlebag

what fish and plants will you put in it?


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## dan888

Another great project!


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## medicineman

@everybody who loves to see it even bigger and deeper,
Regretably I'm not too interested in making the pond any deeper than 70-75 cm due to many reasons and I've had think it over and over. The deeper you make (just say more than 1,25 m), the more serious the equipment must be and that will translate to high end tech with high running cost. You will need very serious pumping power (something like 2/3 hp pump), extra powerful metal halides (probably 2-3 of those 1000W ones), freakin huge chiller (probably 2-3hp AC machine) and all kind of very serious power machines. Maintenance will also be a PITA not to mention the monthly power bill. Another factor is building cost. Keep in mind that this is a project done along with the whole house.. think of fund availability should I make something of monstorous (something like tom barr's creation scale) proportion. Much more serious bracings and concrete blocks will be needed and not to mention those special built glass planks which may cost you a leg.

For something that is built permanently right inside a living room, it will run for as long as the house stand which might be decades before the next renovation (that is except in the future minor modifications are made on the garden) unlike of a huge glass tank. Think of if more like an inwall tank with 1 side of glass, which is a permanent feature and requires someone who is willing to spend time or fund (to hire caretaker) to maintain it. So making it easy to maintain and low running cost is the key, more like your lawn garden which last indefinately.










1. House walls (painted)
2. Garden walls (textured, built on and planted)
3. Opening with clear polycarbonate roofing

One of the helping factor is free, quality sunlight. The space used to be a terrarium garden as I have already told you so. There is a huge opening by the top and if I'm right it measures around 2,5 x 2,75 meter. To keep things more humid and prevent pollution (rain water, dust) from coming in, this time I will add clear glass-like polycarbonate roofing (japan's SunLoid) which is usually used in greenhouses.



If we see this picture above which is taken at around 3pm, it is very clear that sunlight penetrate and falls to the lower part without any problem. The garden/pond area is directly hit by strong sunlight for several hours, that is around 11am to 2pm. The opening slightly face west and the garden recieve more light from late morning to early evening.

The fact that plants like pothos and creeping phylodendrons used to live very thickly from top to bottom is a proof that I have enough natural light for the pond but probably just by medium level when it reach the bottom. So the plan is to supplement using metal halide lamp, either a single 1000W fixture or twin 400W and hang it at certain height so it lights up the undergrowth/pond. Just 2-3 hours a day would be more than enough and it does not hurt bad on the bill (less than 2-3 hours worth of air conditioning for my bedroom). Even with careful plant management I can totally eliminate the need of MH, but it hurts on the beauty aspect (no viewing light and no cool ripples).

*just to let know that this is not a mere plan. This is a project in construction. Comments are valuable and inputs are highly welcome as consideration and vital addition.


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## medicineman

Here you go, real progress pics taken several days ago

Second floor shot (taken freehand at 430 pm to illustrate light availability)









The cliff section is far from done but has taken a good shape to give an idea of the rough layout. First the team measure the working ground and dug as neccesary. Bottom plumbing was installed before they poured in concrete for fondation. Thick steel wires were shaped and laid as base shape forming skeleton along with guideline/basic brick works. Work progress from bottom up with earth/sand fillings by the empty inside. 

Spots where water will drip from are reinforced for extra strength and water resistance (the grayish unfinished spots) and the outer skin is carved on (a process that reuires uncommon artistic hand). As you can notice there are several (I think 5 of them) whitish pipe appearing out of the cliff part. Those are spots where water will gush out and drip down to the pond. The debit of water of each outlet will be controlled remotely by valves to achieve maximum effect. The sticking pipe pole by the center is just there to cover pond drain from getting covered by debris (there is a draining hole at the bottom of the pond).

If you can see the woven steel which is surrounding the bottom and sides of the pond which will be sealed with 19mm glass.

(I'm verry sorry for no step by step pics for those of you who would like to see because I'm busy and the team works so fast that what you see here is done in only 5 days).

Here is a pic showing detail on how the realistic and natural texture of the cliff










It is porous just like those of real volcanic cliffs. Pockets are there for non water plants to fill in.


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## Y0uH0

Looking really good and natural so far.I believe the wall isn't completed yet? Because the pipe is rather visible as of now.


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## medicineman

@Y0uH0,
No, it is far from completion. I think the team will camuflage it or hide it some more.

@PinkRasbora,
There you have it and more to come as the work progress. No diving gear perhaps just smimming gear for me to go in every couple of months.

@organic sideburns,
Two tanks is already enough for me. Time will tell if I have time to keep them all, that is why this one is built as a very low maintenance system that can be left to run automatically for a month or more inbetween time consuming maintenance.

@JenTheplantGeek,
Everybody loves big tank project  (but not the problems behind that :icon_roll )

@mr.gaboozlebag,
Plants probably non biotope setup.
Non aquatics: ephifits; bromeliads, orchids, ferns, creeping plants like pothos, philodendron, forest floor plants, etc.
Aquatics : low to medium light plants. No too much stem plants that require uprooting and trimming. Perhaps a bit of floating plants. Aquatic-terrestrial plants like pennywort, moss, anubias under and over water, etc.
Fish : no idea yet. You guys want to candidate something?


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## SuRje1976

Amazing...your tank looks like it will be bigger than my bedroom.


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## fresh_lynny

leave it to me to see faces in the rock cliffs you made...lolol How cool will bromiliads look on those pockes, with orchids and creeping Jenny draping down into the water? This is a grea project!


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## A Hill

this is an awsome project! i would suggest frogs for the above water part.. but you said it would be all open so that probably isnt a great idea...

also the wall seems to just stop at one point, will it go up to the top or will pothos and creepers and vines just go up on their own to hide the obvious gap?.

for plants i would love to see a lot of bromiliads and things like you have listed. they will look really cool, for the underwater, why not go with some floaters as well like lillypads and red root floaters and things like that.

for inhabitants... do something that most people normally cant. something big. or a ton of small fish like german blue rams +angles or something. maybe altums?

you sure do like big tanks and projects!

- fish newb -

ohh and that backdrop is amazing! have you seen the ones people use for dart frogs? if not.. Dendroboard - Your source for dart frog information. maybe the people over there will have ideas for you as well?


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## medicineman

@fresh_newbie,
Lol... it is time now for the game : find the ghost!

@Fish newb, (no wonder sometimes people will get you wrong for fresh_newbie and vice versa)
Frogs... like the looks especially dart frogs like green or azureus, but then with free opening and no enclosure to keep extra moisture in, I will be asking for trouble (drying or escaping frogs by the sofa). 
The wall carving will not stop there, it is far from finished (work progress from bottom up). It will continue almost up to the roof opening.
Lilypads from the non high light families can grow well, but not the light loving lotus family found in open ponds.
Inhabitants...hohoho.. loads of fish? the big ones? Must resist... can not...
Even though a large number of tight schooling species will appear at best inside bigger enclosure...
*Dendroboard is one of the "poisoning" factor into giving the idea :icon_roll .
I guess "Great Stuff" foam is not usable when building this big. They do have some allergy building vivs using concrete due to not so compatible nature for delicate frogs.

Back to the garden..










Here we can see the floor is excavated for waste water plumbing, huge drain pipes will be installed along that hole. Excess water from plant watering drain, pond overflow, floor drain will be channeled into one huge control box, pre filtered and goes into the waste water plumbing. Without a pre filtered control box, you will only looking for trouble from clogged pipes because debris from backwash, soil, etc will accumulate. The box's job is to retain all bigger particles and make them sink, so the plumbing will be save from clogging while the box must require some cleaning every several months.

OK... perhaps some wood or woody vines dangling from the wall would look cool (as in XXL vivariums). We will see later in the project if wood work will be used.


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## medicineman

How do you attach glass to concrete lining? (discussion revised)










The pic shows steel bars reinforcement as skeleton for concrete lining/frame. On top of that (and by the side) a piece of 19mm glass will sit and creating a viewing window which has no support by the top (like of those ADA tanks). There are two viewing windows which will meet at right angle (divided by small concrete pillar for strength), one measuring 150cm and another one 200cm, both glass will be around 55-60cm tall (depending on installation) from the concrete frame.

There are several ways I know of people attaching glass to concrete lining.

1. Stick it with silicone on one side only and let water pressure work to secure the glass. Easiest to install but somewhat less support at the top of the glass).









2. Stick it with silicone inbetween concrete frame. Much more difficult to install, require good hands and timing to install.









My contractor prefers option #2 due to the strength which will affect longevity and safety. However, I feel that they underestimate the pressure from water that will be there once the pond is filled. It is going to be a mere 55cm water height that the glass must hold off - the water height that will be held back by concrete portion need not be accounted for (even 12mm glass would be sufficient and very safe, not to mention thick 19mm) so they are pretty sure about installing just 5cm of the glass into the frame. I might sound paranoid but I'm not sure about that mere 5cm, they said that even in aquariums you silicone only less than 2 cm on the joint no matter how thick is your glass (say 12-15mm) so 5cm would be overkill and enough to hold off that kind of depth. Everybody knows that in this condition the point of greatest glass stress is at the bottom, right at the frame-glass joint.

Sooo... you experts right here must let me know whether the contractor will screw up and cause the glass to blow up (hopefully during test and not after I decor) or whether 5 cm will do fine and safe for years. Please help me with experience/theory and no better safe than sorry precaution (doing being safe better than sorry would simply insert the whole thing for 8 inches! :icon_eek: )


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## nornicle

medicineman..

truly jaw dropping stuff...

everytime i see you setting up something, the scale is so imaginative... :fish1:


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## esarkipato

I've lived in apartments smaller than that tank. 

Interesting issue with the installation of glass. Will the viewing windows be supported on 3 sides by concrete, or just the bottom? IF it's 3...I would go with option 1.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

mm.. alot of work for jsut a 700 gallon.. then again that 1600-1700 gallon tank journal I saw had that part of the house build for it already >>


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## SCMurphy

Every time I see a public aquarium set up something like this they used acrylic that was at least an inch thick. The 'groove' would cause a problem if the pane flexes, making it more susceptible to breaking. The non-groove installation allows the pane to flex without having a fulcrum/lever effect across the pane.

Someday I want to know what you do to be able to afford such giant setups. I'm just a little jealous. :redface:


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## medicineman

@SCMurphy
Thanks for the reminder and information, I will let the team know to order a taller glass for me to set on a single pane style. The reason why they insist still on using groove style perhaps due to their experiences installing huge pane of window glass which never experience huge water pressure.
The single sided silicone style is what they use in even bigger tanks in my country (private tanks). The problem is it seems nobody give me a good reason/answer to why the set it up that way. Either are ignorant that they just copy from similar large tank without knowing the purpose OR they decided to play stupid and let see what bad thing happens to me if I set the glass wrongly.

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Yes, a lot of work just for 700 gallon if you see it as a regular tank. This style of tank requires more work than regular 4 sided glass/acrilic tank. It is a sunken garden after all, with real plants all the way to the top and not to forget it is built integrated with the house right by the living room, so everything must be done correct. NO bigger displacement tank for me now, I can imagine the pain of maintenance....

@esarkipato,
It is 3 sided and now I decided to install it on a single pane (no groove). 

@nornicle,
Thanks... perhaps you consider me as a dreamer. There is a limit to this building big stuff because I maintain the system personally (and limited free time will dictate it all).


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## medicineman

Proggres pics:

Taken at around 11.00 to illustrate light availability. From this time to around 2.30 sunlight tend to be hitting quite directly to the pond area (lowest part). 










The backdrop is done up to around 14+ feet with spacing until 18 feet. The rest up to the roof opening will not be heavily carved.

Close up on the detail.










The texture is not yet finished as work continue. It does change colour from dark to lighter due to the drying of material.


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## organic sideburns

Wow, awesome pics thanks for keeping us updated. Looks to be very fun!


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## medicineman

I want to hear your opinion about additional supplemental/viewing lighting for this one. It is kinda hard to decide as this one is unlike regular tank. Pendant style fixture is attractive but must not be hanged too low (or else they will spoil the scenery), I think at least 8 feet high from water level will look great. I saw amano did this with no problem on his giant tank, although his is much closer, more like 4-5 feet away from the water surface. 

If you happen to ever been in Singapore's Changi airport, you might remember this indoor fern garden with a koi pond by the terminal. The lighting is supplied by many metal halide downlight very far away (something like 18+ feet away). Yet it is enough to sustain the life of all tree ferns and other kind of ferns (yes, they are real and alive!! and they've been there for more than a year without dying) far below.










Looking at my project condition, metal halide is the only obvious option. With natural sun lighting condition and the nature of plants (non high light plants) to be considered, I'd say 400W bulb would be sufficient to punch through the distance and depth. Two of such bulb would be more than enough to cover the pond evenly.


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## Y0uH0

medicineman said:


> If you happen to ever been in Singapore's Changi airport, you might remember this indoor fern garden with a koi pond by the terminal. The lighting is supplied by many metal halide downlight very far away (something like 18+ feet away). Yet it is enough to sustain the life of all tree ferns and other kind of ferns (yes, they are real and alive!! and they've been there for more than a year without dying) far below.
> 
> 
> Looking at my project condition, metal halide is the only obvious option. With natural sun lighting condition and the nature of plants (non high light plants) to be considered, I'd say 400W bulb would be sufficient to punch through the distance and depth. Two of such bulb would be more than enough to cover the pond evenly.


For a moment there,i thought the lights that were providing lighting for the plants at Changi airport were normal lights until you highlighted the fact that they were actually metal halides..It slipped my mind for ahwile there. Finally there is an answer to my all time question about how they managed to keep the plants alive in there and yes,they are real living plants.
Hmm,would exposing your pond to direct sunlight be a risk in terms of algae problem? I would most probably go with the metal halide option as it allows you to restrict the amount of light that your setup receives. At the same time,have you considered other forms of lighting say coloured lights or night lights to further enhance the look of your mega project during different times of the day?


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

Medicineman.. what do you live in that looks like that on the inside? and I am assuming you area docters yes? or does alittle money go along way other there?


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## fresh_lynny

medicineman said:


> I want to hear your opinion about additional supplemental/viewing lighting for this one. It is kinda hard to decide as this one is unlike regular tank. Pendant style fixture is attractive but must not be hanged too low (or else they will spoil the scenery), I think at least 8 feet high from water level will look great. I saw amano did this with no problem on his giant tank, although his is much closer, more like 4-5 feet away from the water surface.
> 
> If you happen to ever been in Singapore's Changi airport, you might remember this indoor fern garden with a koi pond by the terminal. The lighting is supplied by many metal halide downlight very far away (something like 18+ feet away). Yet it is enough to sustain the life of all tree ferns and other kind of ferns (yes, they are real and alive!! and they've been there for more than a year without dying) far below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at my project condition, metal halide is the only obvious option. With natural sun lighting condition and the nature of plants (non high light plants) to be considered, I'd say 400W bulb would be sufficient to punch through the distance and depth. Two of such bulb would be more than enough to cover the pond evenly.


I would try to contact the person who maintains that pond/fern tree garden at the airport. it is easy enough to find out. I bet they have some opinions about lighting. You seem to have 3 hours of great sunlight. You will have to supplement it though, so there would be a good place to start.


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## Hoppy

CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> Medicineman.. what do you live in that looks like that on the inside? and I am assuming you area docters yes? or does alittle money go along way other there?


It is safe to say he is not a starving college student!


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

Hoppy said:


> It is safe to say he is not a starving college student!


I know.. his house thing.. it jsut is weird.. he has that one big tanki with all the congo tetras and all I see si glass block walls.. and then some odd looking open to sky basment thing with steps.. it is odd.


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## medicineman

@Y0uH0,
Algae could be an issue on direct sunlight, while I'm not too concerned because the duration is quite short (just several hours around noon) and the rest of the photoperiod can be compared to those of low to medium level lighting. Coloured lighting? perhaps night viewing light, artinic blue will do.

@fresh_newby,
That would be a great way to make sure while it would take some trouble to contact the designer/caretaker/consultor. My wild guess is a Netherland based company dealing in vivariums and open style indoor gardens. Lets see what will they say about using fewer bigger watt bulbs or multiple smaller watt bulbs (at the airport all I can observe are smaller bulbs that looks like 150W, 250W at most).

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Looking like which? The tank you referring to is on the balcony by the second floor and that explains the oddity of background. The stairs is back stairs that leads to the house deck. Behind that glass blocks is neigbour's house and we certainly need some privacy from preying eyes (which would be gazing at the tank because it blocks the view to inside). Looking like the airport fern garden is another thing... my economy is far from reaching that level, only some of the biggest corporate boss can afford that!
And for information, this project is on a different house (our old house which is under renovation).

@Hoppy,
LOL. I have to go on a diet then :hihi:


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## fresh_lynny

mm...thanks to the internet, contacting them will be easy. I do that kind of crap all of the time.
Also, don't take CBBP's words to heart. I love anything architecturally interesting. It is an art form to me. I love the interesting nuances to your place and I cannot wait to see this project come to fruition. It is good to be out of medical school debt and doing well. I can sleep better at night now! lol


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## medicineman

@fresh_newby,
You are right about the internet, the fern garden is more famous that I thought, a simple search proved many links to the garden inside Changi airport. Find the right link and I may be connected with the mastermid of the project.
With hopefully enough funding, I do hope you went trough specialist degree and sleep even better!


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

I did not mean anything wrong by my questions.. I actualy like the look.. it is a cool looking house.. i am just curious as to what it just outside the pictures.. it looks like a nice house haha..


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## medicineman

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
No offense is taken  

By now the whole wall is getting finished but still not getting finishing touches such as colouring, coco bedding and such until the final stages. The pond part is now in turn for construction and will be soon casting concrete. This is going to take some time...


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## A Hill

i really love the backround, its amazing. 

for lighting have you thought of trying to use something on the idea of spotlights? it looks like you have stairs is it going up to a bedroom or something that has a opening under the stairs? what if you mounted a mh or two under there and directed the lght at the tank? or something like that so it wouldn't obtruct the view. 

you said this is your old house? so when are you going to rent it out? lol maybe i should go visit india! :hihi: 

good luck with this monster. i do agree with what you said about pdfs. i wouldnt want to watch TV with them either lol.

- fish newb -


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## medicineman

@Fish newbie
LOL ... it is quite a big one and not for rent, because I plan to stay there. BTW It is Indonesia (as in southeast asia) and not India (as in western asia). Lighting from the stairs? possible. Metal halide spotlights as a secondary source from that angle would be nice. But still I want at least a single (or double) bigger metal halide pendant from the ceiling.

Back to the project.... since this is a project which is integrated with the house, work and finishing must be done in orderly fashion otherwise one job may delay or even ruin the other. The room in general is now somewhat left behind with granite slabs to be installed that is after plumbing is finished (for all in and ex waterways). 

So finishing to the garden is somewhat delayed and work must slow down from here. Several basic work yet to be finished are : 
- filter chambers
- control valves and non-planted plumbing
- viewing glass and the frames
- garden floor
- supplemental artificial lighting system
- covering for the sunlight opening (with support frames as well)
- finishing touches; make ups, colourings and fine details on textures
- plant decoration and setup?? --> this one is the last to think of.... still months away!

I'm happy to update that the whole backdrop has taken full shape, plumbings are all installed and covered, including those for drainage, filter and backwall watering. The pond section is also concrete casted and well cured right now that you can see the base shape even though it is not yet given details/texture. I will take some pics to share the next time I visit the house for general inspection.


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## A Hill

medicineman said:


> @Fish newbie
> LOL ... it is quite a big one and not for rent, because I plan to stay there. BTW It is Indonesia (as in southeast asia) and not India (as in western asia). Lighting from the stairs? possible. Metal halide spotlights as a secondary source from that angle would be nice. But still I want at least a single (or double) bigger metal halide pendant from the ceiling.


Lmao, sorry about the location mix up, i feel like an idiot lol.......:icon_redf :icon_roll 

also if you put a pendent from the cieling you could always make a planter box on the top and around the sides so it stays "hidden" i think ive seen this done at some zoos and stuff. i think you should deffinatly try to spotlight.

good luck!

- fish newb -

oh btw 950th post.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

First off let me jsut say.. Jakarta has like wall to wall building! Whoa! the only trees I saw from sats where hnear some big tower thing. Is there really that man buildings there MM? looks like one endless city!. 

anwyay.. MM what plants are you going to be adding again?


----------



## capricorn77

MedicineMan,
IF what CBBP said is true, about Jakarta being a wall-to-wall concrete jungle, then you've just created an oasis of relaxation whenever you come home! Perfect after a long day's work! :thumbsup: 

This is turning to out to be an amazing masterpiece and I'm glad you are so willing to share all this with us here at PT! Thanks! :thumbsup: 
Definitely going to keep track of this journal and can't wait to see the progress and evolution this will take! 

Just out of curiousity, do you have mosquito problems? If so, how will you solve the problem of a potential mosquito breeding ground with all the little nooks and crannies that will collect puddles of water? Those would be perfect for mosquitos to lay their eggs...or maybe I'm just being ridiculous...:icon_roll 

Also, how will you scrape the glass if there's algae growing on it? Just curious...

Have you considered how loud the waterfall will be when it is running? I hope your bedroom isn't next to it, or I would imagine it may be a bit too loud?


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

it is cap 77!! it is!!! except for some central park like thing with some with tower thing.. wanna see a picture? or see it yourself? go DL google earth..


----------



## capricorn77

CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> it is cap 77!! it is!!! except for some central park like thing with some with tower thing.. wanna see a picture? or see it yourself? go DL google earth..


Oh I absolutely believe ya! No worries there. I'm just saying that if there was wall to wall of concrete, then this indoor pond would give MedicineMan the oasis he needs after a long day. 
Sorry if I made it sound as if I didn't believe you. That wasn't my intend, my apologies :icon_redf


----------



## medicineman

@Fish Newb,
Good idea on hiding lighting by using planting box to cover up the whole long cable thing. I must go to the lamp suppliers and see whatever is available and plan further from there.

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Yes, Jakarta is not just a city, it is a congested metropolis and it spreads out large area. What it lacks in concentrated high rise is compensated by the sheer size. The monument and park thing you mentioned is around the central area in front of the presidential palace (our "white house") and it explains the green-ness of the area. That big tower thing is the national monument with several hundread pounds of gold carving on top symbolizing neverending flame. Wall to wall building is a good way to illustrate some cramped areas of the city, even though there are many more prestigious spots with much more open space and greenery. I live on the southern part of the city which is richer in greenery and lucky enough to live right next to a park the size of two football fields.

@capricorn77,
We do have mosquito all the time all year long since it is the tropics right here. The possibily of water getting stuck in the nooks and crannies long enough for mosquito to breed does exist. However since mosquito will never lay their eggs on moving water, the pond and all the moving water part are spared. The passive nooks and crannies however, are made in a way that water will never stay there for too long and drains away.

If you take a scross section on the backdrop right by the spots with water flowing:








1. Steel frames with earth, rubble and soil
2. Base concrete layer (water resistant)
3. Outer crust
Base concrete layer which is water resistant will not allow water from backwall watering/waterfall to seep and lost. The outer crust is made in a way that it is light and porous. This way water will not penetrate inside the wall and wet the house structure (or even seep to the other side of the wall). Parts without backwall watering has no layer #2, so basically all water (which is not much) will seeps and drips down either to the pond or to the ground (drainage is already there to handle this).

Algae scraping? that would be as easy as doing an open top tank. The glass is less than 60cm deep anyway so it would be a piece of cake.

Waterfall issue is already prepared by having three valves (one to the pond and two to the backwall) which control the flow of returning water. If it gets too loud or too wet/splashy, the valves are already there, just adjust so more non-waterfall water get more portion.


----------



## chinchek787

Wow, u put me to shame!!!


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## medicineman

As promised, updated pic of the garden in progress.

top view taken at 3.30 pm









You can see the opening and all the semi-finished ceiling job and some part of the house, notably part of the unfinished stairs (shows how the job must be slowed down a bit).

Now the whole base backdrop/cliff is almost complete and will be fine tuned for water cascade. It would be necessary to carve or add some parts so the falling water will drop nicely and to/trough the right spots.










The pond section is also taken shape with its basic mortar layer for water resistance. Steel bars are still there and right on that spot it will be layered with concrete casting which will act as glass support frame. The strength will be exceptional that we think it will endure someone sitting on the glass with the water filled in (it is the contractor's idea to make the structure last for long time and sure it does cost the cool look of a full glass joint)
You will note a pool of shallow water for testing. It was used for pre-tuning the cascades and after that to test draining, making sure that every drop drains to the base of the pole sticking out in the middle).

On the leftmost bottom the control box is already casted. All valves to the drains are gathered in there and channeled into the house pre-sewer. I'd think of a nice way to cover it yet easy enough to open up for maintenance/draining.

That boxy structure by the left is the filter part. It is still to be further decorated by the outer skin to get more natural look and reduce the boxiness.


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## Y0uH0

Really awesome.It's amazing to see how things have taken shape. I can't wait to see the end product. As for now,ever considered opening it to visitors? You can consider imposing an entrace fee and i am sure you will reap alot of income judging by the beauty that is developing as shown in those pictures. Just joking,it is a really breathtaking project.


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## organic sideburns

looks great so far, nice pictures.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

what fish are going to be in it? and now that I see the surrounding area it looks like it is in a really nice spot!


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## medicineman

@chinchek787,
Nothing to shame of, every well-cared planted tank is a masterpiece in its own right! 

@Y0uH0,
LOL... that would be too much for me. Such project would be more suited to hotels or public aquarium if for show and certainly it needs to be at least twice as big to catch the public awe. Online visitors is different though, it is always open but you cannot see it in person/real time.
Hey, all kiddos and even adults like me would love to splashy-splash on such pond-tank thing (like the one they have in public aquariums' petting pool)

@organic sideburns,
Thanks. Suggestions are also welcome.

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Yes, it exactly located as in the initial planning (check first page). You can also view from different positions with ease; at level, from above (the level section of stairs) and from upstairs (as shown in pic).
I have not decided yet on what specific fish to put inside. Either a large school or smaller fish or fewer school of larger fish, but definately no heavy pooper or fish that require too much maintenance (live food, frequent vaccuming). I'm already burdened with daily activities and other tanks.


A bit of simple light planning :










I want to use 3 metal halides fixture, all downlight style with reflector (usually can be found in malls or showrooms). One is big (at least 400W) and the other two are smaller (@75-150W). The big one is by the center and it will be hanged using steel cable on a distance while the two smaller ones will be right by the top of carving using aluminium support. Note that this acts as supplemental lighting and for viewing effect rather than main source of light (the garden is already bright enough for some time of the day).


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

haha.. a discus pond! rofl

haha anyway.. is ig gonna be a koi pond or something? perhaops a huge school of tetras haha.


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## the_noobinator

this looks great! thanks for the update.


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## organic sideburns

Wow, very tall! All those nooks and crannies in the backdrop will be perfect for your fish and plants. Do you plan to add plants to the backdrop?


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

organic sideburns said:


> Wow, very tall! All those nooks and crannies in the backdrop will be perfect for your fish and plants. Do you plan to add plants to the backdrop?


-scratches head- Umm.. I think it only goes up like a foot of so.. high not actually going to be as tall as the rock wall. I think.. I mean if it was.. it would be alot mroe then 700 gallons. :icon_eek:


----------



## organic sideburns

doh! 

I thought the backdrop was part of the tank.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

organic sideburns said:


> doh!
> 
> I thought the backdrop was part of the tank.


it would be amazing if it went that high!!! it would be like good for huge ciclids and arowana and such! or a huge s huge school of tetras haha! or disucs.. or hundreds of goldfish xd


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## Rhinoman

The filtration sound like big time overkill. Running all that fresh water in daily and that huge filter?


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## medicineman

I would have a headache to build too tall... up to the backdrop?? :icon_eek: It is more than 12 feet high!
That is just asking for trouble. A big NO for as long as building a private system to self maintain. A whole different story if I was to build a public display, the glass would be 9 feet and water at least 5 feet. The preparation construction, materials and technology involved would be much different and definately flush out my $$.

On the reality (if you follow the journal from the start) it would be only around 80cm deep and minus with the subsrate height, the end would be something like 70cm of water. 

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
If you find discus pond to be funny, or expect 2 feet koi to make friends with aquatic plants, I also have something hillarious. Once upon the completion of the base pond, I came for inspection and made a joke on how appropriate if should in the future I became fed up with caring for fish and plants, the pool is just great for jacuzzi  (I actually laid down there for a while and bask under the sun ray! LOL)

@organic sideburns,
Yes there will be lots of plants by the backdrop. Terrestrial plants that is. Think of ferns, vines, orchids, bromeliads, moss, etc.... that certainly fits with a pond by the bottom.


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## organic sideburns

That would make a great jacuzzi!

but please, stick to the fish for now I want to see how this bad boy turns out


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

not Koi.. regular goldfish.. wlel fancy.. I love mine.


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## medicineman

@Rhinoman,
It is good to have well-designed filtration, oversized one is even better still as a big plus. I can get more bio filtration power which leads to faster detoxification by bacteria. I plan it to be able to handle as much as koi keeping (koi ponds are even more of a technology and filter overkill marvel), in case I got tired or bored in the long run. Wasting water is another issue though (if you did aware that I plan to do fill and bleed WC system), I did channel the waste water into a drain around the house, so some can seeps back to the surrounding ground.

@organic sideburns,
No worries, for now I certainly stick to plant and fish combo  

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
On one time perhaps, because keeping goldfish does limit plant option even more.

Level pic of the whole project










This is how water (illustrated) supposed to flow cascading with drips on some parts. I want to avoid too much free falling water in concern with CO2 loss and try to set more gentle cascades... but I'm sure that certainly can be taken care of later in some way.










Work does continue again starting this week, even though done slowly by fewer crew. I guess there is no point to rush. The house is far away from being fit enough to live in and it certainly takes time to cure all the cement works, reducing that alkalinity to near neutral (by then peat/black water treatment for several weeks will help to acidify a bit). Newly cured cement is quite notorious as the cause to make fish not feeling at home and some sensitive terrestrial plants to wilt!


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

haha true.  but having 70 large various types or orandas would be amusing.. every time you walk by 70 little brain looking heads rise up and mouths open and beg for food.


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## the_noobinator

this is going to be so sweet! imagine using an actual 8ft tree trunk as your driftwood.


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## AlGee

organic sideburns said:


> doh!
> 
> I thought the backdrop was part of the tank.


you're not the only one :icon_redf


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## Rhinoman

It looks beautiful!


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## medicineman

There is an open space right in between the light opening and the backdrop cliff and right now it is just covered in thin mortar crust. The team and I have some options in mind to do on that part:

1. Carve it lightly. This will create homogenous look along with the rest of the structure but it will appear too menacing (and kinda spooky) because it rises up too high. Best surface for climbing plants, and it also create extra pockets to stick more high light three top plants like bromeliads.
2. Finish with mortar, give a bit of rough pimples stamping and top off with colour gradation, matching the cliff below. Will look less menacing and also still great for climbing plants to cling to.
3. Finish it smooth and paint blue sky with some clouds and natural scenery stuff (perhaps partially drawn cliff then sky). Will look cleanest, serene and least menacing. Plants cannot be allowed to climb up too far or otherwise the sticking roots will ruin the paint job. I even have a very funky idea of installing fiber optic lines by the sky painting to be area to make starlight effect at night. 

Now tell me what do you think? (your very own suggestions and ideas are also welcome)


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## medicineman

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Perhaps some time in the history of the pond...  
I've kept fancy goldfish like orandas, calicos, ryukins, etc before. They does grew from golfball size to palm size when kept in a pond. Too bad these fish are shortlived.

@the_noobinator,
Then I should do a trip to find XXL driftwood. The ones that are sold at my regular source are just maxed out for my 260 gallon tank. Must keep in mind I should not use just any kind of wood, concerning excessive tannin leach, bouyancy, rapid decomposition, etc.

@AlGee,
I do imagine it would look better still if I fill it with water up to 1/2 of the total height. But too much to maintain. Nothing wrong of preasuming that it looks like that I'm going to build it all the way up, it appears so if one didnt follow from the start


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## the_noobinator

depending on your painting skills, your sky option sounds nice. you could even hide some blue LEDS behind the ledge at the top of the molded portion of the wall to simulate moonlight, and white LEDS for stars. run it on the same timer as your "tank" lights!


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

short lived? :eek5: huh? they live like.. 30-40 years..  perhaps you did not separate them from the Koi? Koi will out eat a fancy goldfish and they will eventually starve.

see? bruce!


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## medicineman

CardBoardBoxProcessor,
I swear that goldfish is a freak! I've never handle one that huge before :icon_eek: . Actually I lost around a dozen of my palm sized goldfish (around 1/2 of that huge oranda) due to herpes outbreak. There were many ponds nationwide that got affected and casualties were huge. Around here fancy goldfish on the average expected to last for just 5 years. Many factors play the role; pollution, genetics, handling, medication availability/knowledge, tank/pond condition, climate, etc. 

@the_noobinator,
LED instead of fiber optic also sounds good. If I'm going to decide to paint the part, I will certainly look for skilled hands. My painting is OK but not good enough for the house :icon_redf


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

freak? haha.. you know you wish you have orandas that big! perhaps a ROM would make your fancies last longeR?


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## JenThePlantGeek

^^ I sure do! Bruce is beautiful!


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

JenThePlantGeek said:


> ^^ I sure do! Bruce is beautiful!


me too haaha ! but my goldfish are good enough. though, I wish i had a pond for them. or a bigger tank.. if i ever got a huge tank.. it would probably be all goldfish. 700 gallon would be 60 goldfish for sure. :eek5:


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## medicineman

Update :
It looks like option #2 is the best for the whole garden-house project.


> 2. Finish with mortar, give a bit of rough pimples stamping and top off with colour gradation, matching the cliff below. Will look less menacing and also still great for climbing plants to cling to.


My contractor also think the same, so they are going the route. Right now I got 2 planks of 19mm glass from our supplier, cut and polished by the top. Work concentrate on finishing the base for the glass to sit on and casting chambers for filter.

Construction workers will stop all job on the house by tomorrow due to Hari Raya break (or what you know as to mark the end of the month of fasting and abstinence, Ramadan). They will be going back to their hometowns and families and continue work again in 2-3 weeks. Good news for the tired workers. A bad news for those who are too eager to see any new development on the project  ... so sorry guys, the project is on pause (as in almost any project in the country)

I called a guy from roofing construction to take a look at the opening on top of the garden, take measurements and give me option on the best way to cover it while letting lots of sunlight trough. I have two options on my mind:
1. Tempered glass on frame (as in greenhouses, showrooms and malls)
2. Clear polycarbonate on frame (like what they use on greenhouses) 
My opinion: In terms of pricing, #1 will definately cost much more than #2. In terms of longevity, I put my bet on tempered glass. In terms of strength, glass is more frail from impacts, earthquakes (rarely happens strong enough though I'm on the continental ring of fire) than plastic-like polycarbonate. In terms of clearliness, polycarbonate from what I know will turn milky over several years unlike glass which might take decades.
Does anyone have personal idea which one would be better? (or other option)


----------



## Binarywhisper

This was pointed out to me by a freind, AquamanX, over at fishgeeks.com. He pointed it out as something that might interest me relative to a project that I am undertaking. 

1st, I'd like to congradulate you for simply having the cookies to do what most talk and dream of. Good job!

I am going to follow this with great interest as I have already learnt some things for the thread and am certain I will learn a great deal more.

I understand it is hard to document this step by step as the workers move forward in leaps and bounds and you re undoubtly at work during much of it.

I would ask if you could make an effort to, as clearly as possible, document the preperation and mounting of the glass. I really don't think you could give most of us nearly enough photos and explanation of that process.

I noticed that you have settled on Metal Halides. I would suggest considering a mix of MH and High Pressure Sodium. The HPS have a nice yellow light that when blended with the output of some MH gives a very natural pleasant light. 

Some plants like the HPS better as well. The general rule is the plants prefer the whiter light of MH during thier vegative state and the HPS during the flowing state. There is no cost difference in buying the lights and the installation is the same for both as are the types of enclosures they require.

nway, thank you for documenting this
your new friend .... whether you want me or not 

Binarywhisper


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## medicineman

@Binarywhisper,
Glad that this thread can be any help for hints or ideas.
I could arrange a series of step by step explanation on the preparation of glass to concrete part if that would help you greatly. As I'm not a great building construction worker, I have to ask the workers or artistants to explain to me in details how the preparation as well as the glass bonding is done so not to mislead you by my very own explanation. 


By the time I write this down, the pond part is already formed and currently is under test for leak-that means the glass are all set up too. I've paid a short visit (now the project and the whole house is paused for a long holiday break - a local custom and to prevent unwanted things happening the whole compound is locked) a while ago and found the two glass parts are already standing strong, holding back a wall of water 70+cm deep. The bad news is I havent been able to take any pic of the structure so no sneak peek pic for you all right now. Didnt bring along my camera and anyway the whole pond area and the viewing windows are covered up because they (contractor) concerned about safety, no scratch should be on the rather expensive glass.
You cannot see much trough the glass and from the surface as its all very murky due to first time water washed everything down; soil, mortar particles, sand, etc. If after leaving the water for several days (I suspect more than 10 days) the water level does not recede too much, then they can call it safe and continue finishing their work. They did made special mix concrete liner along the pond part, filter and the backwall part which receive waterfall, so if everything goes as planned any leak should not be serious.

For sure it look quite intimidating to me at the first glance :icon_smil


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## medicineman

Waterway layout illustrated










-Green : 3 outlets to inside the pond. They blow under water level.
-Blue : single outlet to the very top of waterfall.
-Light blue : double lines to 2 different sections. It utilize excess water from the main blue line.
Each line is controlled by individual ball valve for fine tuning.

With many outlets at different positions I can make sure that there will be sufficient circulation within the pond which is desireable in accordance to CO2, nutrition and other issues.


----------



## CardBoardBoxProcessor

I am telling you man.. angel fish or discus pond










Or! if you could.. put 10 or so sunfish in there.. only problem is it would need a chiller.. they like cooler water below 75 F. but veyr pretty fish! almso better then discus!

longear sunfish

















bluegill sunfish

















pumpkinseed sunfish


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## TheOtherGeoff

that one under your blue gill is an orangespot sunfish.

he would prolley have a hard time finding them as well since they dont exsist in that part of the world to my knowledge. i think goldfish would be neat though


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## Raul-7

How about a school of Red Bellied Piranha? :hihi: No seriously.


----------



## rottbo

I would put a few freshwater rays in there that wold be sweet otherwise a SA cichlid comunity Like Discus rams apistos you know all docile fish


----------



## CardBoardBoxProcessor

Raul-7 said:


> How about a school of Red Bellied Piranha? :hihi: No seriously.


0_o how would he make current for red bellies? 


Since that tank has such nice size and surface area plus bottem surface area.. i would try a large fish fish tank.. consisting of snakeheads, Garrs, Birchis, oscars, plecos, clown loachs, rays if you can.


----------



## Steven_Chong

The idea is to make this a planted set-up though right? Garrs or pirahna would be compatible in that context, but some of the recently mentioned fish would not work.


----------



## CardBoardBoxProcessor

clown loaches yes? garr woudl rock.. 0_O not only mean but pretty.. why would a green snake head not work?


----------



## Y0uH0

Too bad there has been no concrete evidence that mermaids exist,or i may have just suggested that.I think the best fish that would look good from above would be koi.


----------



## Steven_Chong

Koi definitely are the nicest from above, but Koi eat plants. 

Cardboard I have no idea about the compatbility of bichirs with plants but definitely the larger cichlids that are not angels or discus, and most likely the ray would also damage plants.

My thought would be something like gold barbs. They may be small, but they have the same benefit of being colorful from above like koi, but are not going to destroy plants.


----------



## medicineman

Thanks for the input and fantasy on what kind of fauna you think nice to go inside the tank. Something you must keep in mind is flora. This is going to be another planted tank type, so compatibility is a serious issue. There will be plants but there is no guarantee that there will be too many fish. It is very nice to dream and keep lots of fish, but I immediately wake up realizing I already got my hands full on several tanks and some pets.

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Where did you got that pond pic, man? Looks like it is taken from a natural habitat. Angels and that huge pleco on sand .. wow.
And those sunfish, they are your local fish, right? Havent seen them around yet, but probably exist. It got the look of nasty predator, very oscar-like though (kinda reminds me of flowerhorn/ luo han). 
For a fish with lots of rock setup, the mean and big fish you mentioned will work nicely. But on second thought, not too likely for me in the long run. Those meanies belongs better to public display.

@Raul-7,
That would be mean. Even though what I have seen in public aquariums that piranhas tends to be very shy and inactive. They are classified as restricted species on market. But cash always speak, just be mindful not to release them to open water :icon_lol: (reminds me of the river bathers).

@ottbo.
Yea, discus, rams , apistos... and just go for altums for max effect. Must consider the price of that big fish though, a small one will fetch high price once it reach my tank.

@Y0uH0,
Heheh... mermaid.. I'd love to have one. The reality is just weed-eating dugong :hihi: 
No koi for as long as the pond remains planted. But a nice selection should 
one day I quit planting it.

@Steven_Chong,
Hey, gold barb. You know the good local stuff. They are very cheap and plentiful also.

I kinda think for schooling ones, with a small shoal of bigger species that people rarely use in their plated tank, something XXL like bala shark. Then the small ones I use tiger barb? perhaps not the best idea because they might get nippy.

It seems that you all forgot (or perhaps because havent seen) that there are two very big viewing windows by the side. It does look like a pond-tank, you can enjoy it both the top like a pond and from the sides like a tank.

Anyway the progress started again from today. Once they open up the casting, I can take a pic and show you the viewing glass on. Then you can see the final shape, without the finishing on of course.


----------



## Steven_Chong

Yes, and it's it's a pond-tank, it would be great if you had fish that were cool to view from both angles!

I think we focused on top-angles since side ones are much easier to deal with. There are very fiew fish in this world that have evolved to be easily viewable from above after all.


----------



## CardBoardBoxProcessor

giant gouramis 0_o


----------



## medicineman

> giant gouramis 0_o


Uh.. nooo... giant gouramy, a very local fish for me, has a great appetite for plants. 

They fit better in holding tanks, ready to become my meal :hihi: 
Really, they are famous here as tasty fish, growing 1-3 lbs as the popular size. Deep fried, sweet and sour, grilled, you can find them everywhere, markets, restaurants. The bones are very managable too, favoring the fate of the fish as a good meal. Most seafood and specialty restaurants have their own tank/pond just to keep live fish (fresh is an issue) and giant gouramy is usually included. 
Some albino version or an extremely big specimen however will meet better fate as a pet.


----------



## CardBoardBoxProcessor

I bet they task good haha.. okay then... how about a huge tank of three-spots? hahaah!


----------



## Justintoxicated

WOW, over there your on an entirely different level with planted tanks.


----------



## Nightshop

Why not stock it with a good ammount and assortment of tetras?


----------



## fome

8 million neon tetras?

hehe


----------



## medicineman

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
The smaller and colourful gouramy are more like it. Those are possible, not eating plants unlike the giant ones.

@Justintoxicated,
Just trying something unique. A manifestation of childhood crazyness perhaps? :hihi: 

@Nightshop,
That is also one option. Generally they are shoaler, good colours and community planted tank compatible.

@fome,
How am I going to pack 8 million neon tetras inside? .. I'd need a real pond/lake for that.
More like 800 as the realistic max amount, that is also quite overloading the tank capacity.

Back to the tank...
The progress on the project continue as the workers returned.
I present to you the viewing windows! (shown with 80% water filled in)










For those of you who forgot or did not follow from the start, the viewing windows measure at 200cm x 60cm and 150cm x 60cm.

Now you have a clear idea on the size of the pond. So no more wild guessing and self assumption, imagining that my tank is too damn huge (it says 700 and not 7000 gal anyway :icon_lol: ). And from now on you will also remember that this is a tank-pond and not just a pond.

This will give you a good idea on how the pond can also be enjoyed fully from above, unlike a tank which has smaller surface area (and usually too high to watch because of the stand). 










Thinking of lily pads and flowers? sure they will add very welcome view from this angle.


----------



## A Hill

thats amazing. lilly pads would look great! I would vote for anglefish and other smaller fish like rams and apistos and some big plecos!

this is one amazing project!

- Andrew


----------



## Brunog

Im curious to know how much the ciment will buffer your water... might want to look at that for a while before chosing fish...

i dont know what your water is like out of your well... just a question 

I would go with haplochromis... they look awesome from above... they do dig alot tho...


----------



## medicineman

> Im curious to know how much the ciment will buffer your water... might want to look at that for a while before chosing fish...


This is an expected and serious issue since the beginning of the planning. I even consulted this matter with vivarium experts, they said no to cement at once just because they cannot wait long enough or they did not seal the cement off, furthermore it is quite bad for sensitive frogs. It is true that cement can buffer water, it is basically lime/calcium compounds turned into stone after all. 
In my case, it is mixed with other ingredients to make different forms of concrete and mortar mix depending on the use of different sections. I'm going to use just plants and no frogs on the walls, so sensitivity issue is not apparent. 
Upon mixing with water, dry cement will react and reach pH of 12-13 and greatly lowers to 9 or less as it is mixed with other ingredients and dries into solid mass. As it cures completely over the course of several days, the pH lowers again to 8. From this point onwards it will take a long time to reach near neutral, probably several months.

I've had cement based concrete ponds (and so many other people) with no ill effect to fish. Just prepare them well, give some time to perfectly cure, wash and bake it under the sun if possible. Sealing the concrete off will also help for folks who wanted the pond to be used ASAP. Plus it gives uniform colour to the pond lining, namely black for contrast.

Since I have the time in the world to wait (the whole house is also far from finished), probably several months, it should be OK. To speed up things I have some plans under my sleeve, like washing off with acetic acid and give good rinse, filling the pond with water and let nature works, adding some peat on the wait.

Anyway here is one of the workers doing his job on the filter, first time ever pic for a size comparison


----------



## CardBoardBoxProcessor

should have went taller...


----------



## plant_addict

i agree, maybe atleast 2feet taller but thats your decision


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

I dunno about 2 feet.. that is harder to look into.. but .5 - 1 feet higher.


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## sayn3ver

i would have went higher myself, as you'd have to be sitting on the ground to take advantage of the aquarium like glass on the sides. I would have probably extened it another foot or two, scaped it like an aquarium and called it a day.

But i'm not a huge pound fan as the detail is not as apparent from above as it is view from the side.

Amazing none the less though. Really well executed.


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## medicineman

@folks,

I know the height of the glass will be something you guys debate on. I've had my headache during planning and execution. It is a controversy and finally I decided for a mere 60cm. I could have use 80cm like my 1000L tanks, but that would proof out of the question. Now take a good look on how this guy is doing the filter box. 










Yes he is inside and standing. That gives you the idea on how deep the pond area is. There is more of depth than you can see from the pic trough the murky mater (sorry, nothing I can do to make it clear soon). It is already 90 cm+ at some points, going deeper will only make it harder for me to set it as a planted tank. Lighting and maintenance will be harder issue for me. At current condition I already must get my pants wet if something is wrong inside the pond where I cannot reach from outside :tongue:


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## DR.V

Hei medicineman, 

Is the volume of that pond 700 gal ? 

What sort of fish are you going to put in there ??

Thanks


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## whitepine

I think the tank height is perfect... and great views. I hate having to take off my shirt to work on a large tank, much less climbing in it to move things around! I can't wait to see this tank totally planted. Awesome job medicineman.

Cheers, Whitepine


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

well at the very least it could have gone into the ground some haha but then you would not see the bottem dwellers..


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## JenThePlantGeek

I agree with whitepine, I think the height is perfect


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## medicineman

@DR.V,
Yes, the pond-tank is approximately 700gallon, even though now I suspect it reach 800gallon. Still a long time to think and see about the fish.

@whitepine,
LOL... getting naked to maintain a tank.

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Worry not, this one is quite deep to the bottom (part that cannot be seen). 30-40cm cannot be too shallow.


Some pics, from last week.

The filter box is under further construction. Already you can see chambers taking shape.










From up close you need to sit or squat down to see under water and it is nice that you can pet with ease whatever fish you have.
A bit from a distance (right at the living room) a sofa or chair will do nicely as viewing point.

I decided the whole backdrop cliff decor will go right up to the opening, adding total height.


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## DR.V

Nice... very nice...

Where about do you live in Jakarta ?

I might come visit your home when I go back to Jakarta next month hehe ...

Good luck with the project ^^


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa

Umm wow... I'm speechless... wow


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## medicineman

@DR.V,
That would be south district area :icon_smil 

Today's pics.










The filter chambers are almost complete.

And here is the finished top part of the backdrop. The job is blend in, creating continuous cliff up to the opening, which is still under design process. I'm asking for frames and laminated glass skylight.











Talking about top view pond. I saw took this one at Singapore's zoo. They do know what they are doing, I love the zoo with lush rainforest look. Highly recomended!



















Arowanas and freshwater stingrays The first one is quite compatible with plants, the second one I do not know and it is likely not compatible.


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## Martin

I love your idea medicineman!
I have a 3000gal pond, and wish I had a viewing window.
I read your journal, and can't help get expensive ideas!


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## A Hill

You have some good workers there working quite fast! Hopefully sooner or later the top will blend in with the bottom part of the "cliff" 

As for fish stingrays are plant safe, but you would need to have a large sandy area for them, so it would really take a bunch of your space out. I vote for something along the lines of angles! Maybe make this a huge shrimp farm:hihi: :help: lol. 

This is turning out amazing!

- Andrew

Ohh and I got a penpall in school, in Maylasia :hihi: should be interesting!


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## TheOtherGeoff

aros do great with plants. mine loved to swim amoung them and never harmed them. i think that would be sweet.


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## SnyperP

There are quite a few people who keep aros in planted tanks. There are quite a few pictures over at arofantatics.


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## medicineman

@Symbiot,
LOL.. reading the thread is like drinking "poison".
You'll love this pic I shot at Singapore's Jurong bird park (highly recomended for tourist and businessmen alike!). A bit OOT but still has something to do with a garden pond-tank project. Trust me you'll love the place.



















From the top it looks top notch as well.










The only thing it lacks is descent amount of aquatic plants.

Now go and echant magic on that pond of yours :icon_lol: (I believe would be painfully expensive).

@Fish Newb,
Sure they work fast, but far from their actual capacity. The workers did partial job, sometimes for just a day or two in a week. I asked them to plan their job after all, matching the house progress. They do not mind at all because I pay what they did, and they are free to plan and decide their own work.
Shrimp farm? definately. My tanks are already shrimp farms, this pond should be as well, as long as I do not use highly predatory fish. I just need to keep enough plant load and they will breed in no time. Hey, I throwed some cherry shimps into my koi pond last month. Lets wait several months and see if I can harvest any. I mean there are lots of algae and the filter chambers are just perfect for shrimps.

@SnyperP,
That is quite a good specimen of red tailed golden arowana. I also like red dragon, the most prestigious and beautiful arowana. They are just the ferrari of arowanas, nothing beats the kind.
But they cost a lot and it would be disaster if the fish decided to jump out :help:


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

reen snakes heads? or are those local fish as well? haha


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor

that aro is in with neons.. to small to evne notice them or something?


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## kzr750r1

medicineman said:


> But they cost a lot and it would be disaster if the fish decided to jump out :help:


And with out a cover it eventually will have an accident. Better go for somthing that is not inclined to launch out of the tank for food. At least I've seen footage of South American Areo leaving the water for a bug or two...

I always wanted to set up somthing similar having branches over the tank to feed them crickets on occasion....

May never happen though. Keep up the good work I like the progress.


----------



## Martin

medicineman said:


> @Symbiot,
> LOL.. reading the thread is like drinking "poison".
> You'll love this pic I shot at Singapore's Jurong bird park (highly recomended for tourist and businessmen alike!). A bit OOT but still has something to do with a garden pond-tank project. Trust me you'll love the place.
> 
> 
> 
> From the top it looks top notch as well.
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing it lacks is descent amount of aquatic plants.
> 
> Now go and echant magic on that pond of yours :icon_lol: (I believe would be painfully expensive).


I _do_ have plans, and they're rather expensive. The include a river, a greenhouse/outdoor living room... the river flows through the greenhouse from the filter, the ends up in a/the pond. I also have an idea about a small basin about shoulderheight with Hemianthus c.. this would be in the greenhouse thing as well..
like a small powerhead sending water from the riverbit into a bowl/waterfall that just runs back into the river again...


----------



## Y0uH0

Great progress thus far. I am really excited to see everything fully in place and up and running. Now when did you come to Singapore and snap those photographs? I am still at the interview phase now but if i am lucky enough,i may land a job at the zoo so perhaps you can call on me the next time you are here. I guess both the zoo and bird park avoided having aquatic plants because maintenance is a thing and here in Singapore,i do not think that there are companies really specialising in this area yet.


----------



## medicineman

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Snakeheads are local fish. They can grow very big and highly predatory, I'd say more savage than arowana. They've been reports over the years that occacionaly thigh-sized snakeheads bite someone who is bathing on marshy waters (imagine it sees "winky" as a treat :eek)
You can actually pamper arowana so they prefer to be hand-fed on special menus like insects, worms or meat instead of chasing after small fish in the tank. In this case I think the owner of the tank does exactly that, otherwise bill for restocking neon will not be pretty.

@Symbiot,
Sounds like a fun plan, and will be looking beautiful too with all tropical plants and misting system. I would like to make something larger scale like that, perhaps sometime if I become filthy rich. Again a bit OOT but still in connection. What do you think about this plan of a garden with a planted stream/pond?








Could be my next project within the same house, but I must keep in mind of maintenance issue before making this one reality.

@Y0uH0,
I took the shots some time ago. It is always fun to go to those two spots, especially when you do it in a year or so time lapse. I'm happy to see that they will always have something new for me every time I visit. 
They avoided aquatic plants for troublesome reason? Then convince them that you have the knowledge and capability. Show them that you are a good aquascaper, that should be a big plus to your points and you get yourself the job (and you can start to add more aquatic plants after you work there).
They actually have this simple low maintenance display at Jurong bird park, set naturally relying on sulight. Forgive me again for posting non-my tank pics.









see the guy on the right? Next time if could be you doing so!










The display mimics african waters. Plants also from africa: bolbitis, tiger lotus, anubias. Plenty of fish (small sized) like congos and such.

They use this shading net to regulate just enough sunlight into the display. Should have add a clear roof like my plan, you can see it just rained quite heavily for the past few days prior to my visit, and the water became murky.









Get the job, man. The place is so serene and far from pollution, least stressfull I say, especially if the pay is good.


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## lumpyfunk

MM yet another fantastic undertaking!! I am once again in a state of envious awe.

I can not believe that no one has suggested this for fauna yet, but have you considered archer fish? It looks like a great home for them you could actually see them hunt.

Thank you for sharing this project!


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## Y0uH0

I guess they avoided aquascaping their mega tanks because they are actually part of exhibits for some animals eg. the pygmy hippo so the movement by these animals may just end up stirring everything up. I am amazed by the tank at the bird park though,haven't been there for many years now. And just to give you an update,they have being doing a major overhaul recently and the bird park was just reopened sometime this year.So perhaps you may want to find some time to make a trip down and see for yourself the changes that may have taken place since your last visit.As for my job at the zoo,it will not involve anything near the scaping of the exhibit so i will not be able to help scape their tanks. Furthermore,such work are left to contracted landscape companies.Thanks alot for your faith in me and your encouragement though=). By the way,i love the plan you have of the possible garden/stream. I'd say if you have the resources,go for it especially when it is very beautiful. Unfortunately here in Singapore,for me to realise a dream like that,i would first have to get myself a bungalow which costs several million dollars so perhaps we shall see how in the future? Haha. But definately,i would support the projects that you have in mind.


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## Aquamanx

AWE, Lumpy just took the Idea of Fish from me! LOL! I thought I was going to be the first to mention it! I'm Surprised no one else said Archer Fish sooner also! the local zoo here has one, but, I have never seen it eat. Unsure what other fish they have in with it, it's been a while since I have been there... Well, maybe not that long ago, I was there this past summer... LOL! They have a couple of small displays of different fish. There is a cool looking planted one with all Rainbow fish, very attractive!

BTW medicineman, your pond/tank is looking AWESOME! I have an Idea for a greenhouse/pond also. My girlfriend (soon to be Fiancee, if everything goes Right.) is totaly supportive of everything I do. She loves the tanks I have & has even gotten into the planted tanks also. We're looking into purchasing a house (probably won't for a few more months...) & I have already brought up the point that I want a Greenhouse (I have always wanted a greenhouse) & have a pond in it. She was very Excited for me & said I can do whatever I would like to! She also said it would be a great place for her to do her reading. (She loves to read...)


----------



## medicineman

Archer fish?

I happen to have some pics of archer fish display, palud style. This one is mangrove setup with a fake mangrove trees. I guess they got good headache growing mangrove tree in high light level without spoiling the tank with algae, so they resolve to low light and artificial trees instead.



















There are two connected display, L shaped with individual viewing windows.

Back to the pond...

Here you go, a full shot after some finishing job and the top part finished.










Water is a bit tainted, a good thing that you can see it filled around halfway of the windows. The windows frame is now also shaped to blend in with the rest of the cliff.


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## Aquamanx

Very Nice! I'm so excited for you! Can't wait to see the final outcome!


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## Martin

@Symbiot,
Sounds like a fun plan, and will be looking beautiful too with all tropical plants and misting system. I would like to make something larger scale like that, perhaps sometime if I become filthy rich. Again a bit OOT but still in connection. What do you think about this plan of a garden with a planted stream/pond?








Could be my next project within the same house, but I must keep in mind of maintenance issue before making this one reality.

I like it, though you should create it with 'maintenance free' in mind.
The larger the pond, the easier to maintain stability.
My pond is really boring, just a circle of water with fish.. My gf and I bought a house, and the 2 ponds were here already... I'm planning..  I wish I could do a fully planted pond, but here we have freezing winters, and I dont know which plants would survive.. though I DO have plants in the pond, so some can survive below zero temp.


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## medicineman

_Coloured _

I'm presented this kind of colour theme by the team. It still needs another layer to go and is going to be the colour later on. The work on the house creates some stirrups and progress on the garden must be on halt accordingly.

What do you think of the colouring?










I'm considering to ask for for slightly darker colour with more light highlights for the second layer.


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## Aquamanx

It looks Great! Although I'm with you. I'd go a bit darker & use some lighter highlights too. Although, you should probably wet it down & see what it will look like while it's "up & running" to get a good idea of what it will look like. Seeing it will have water on it most of the time, right?


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## the_noobinator

i'd say add more browns and oranges. with the texture, it's going to look like cement anyway, so why not try to depart from that look. actually, a dark brown / almost black with lighter highlights might look awesome.


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## BigB

awsome, i was looking on how to do this but in a much smaller scale for something under a stairwell. Now i know it can be done!

awsome design. The glass is perfect hieght for chilling on a nice sofa and watching the fish swim.


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## medicineman

Note that the top part looks a bit washed out due to sunlight and camera setting. In real it looks more like the lower part. I'm agree with darker colour with more strong highlights. Dont want any part to look cement. Seeing with the cascade on is also a good idea since the nearby area will definately change colour to a certain degree due to dampness.

Not to worry though, the paintjob is not finished yet in any case.

I'm a bit annoyed (but that that worried) about the stained viewing windows though. They try to convince me about how they can clean it spotless after the job is done. Not my business... I'd just ask for new windows if they mess up, leaving stain or scratched the glass in the process! :icon_twis 

And so we have to wait quite a long time for the next level...


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## fresh_lynny

MM looking fantastic! I can't wait to see the terrestrials tucked away on that wall....wow!


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## Martin

update;update;update;update;update;update;update;spam;spam;spam


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## medicineman

I can understand the eagerness to see some update 

As you may already know that the job progressed very slowly since it is a syncronized job to the house under construction. Each must be matched with the house progress in order to prevent damage to each other (ie : dust and mortar from stair work will stain the pond below).

List of jobs done :
1. Re-colouring (not final yet). The top part is likely done, but lower part will suffer from house work and will need another retouch.
2. Perfecting some details on pond and cliff, smoothing up and extra texturing
3. Finishing the filter chamber (and testing will be next). I still need to cover up the filter later on with something.
4. Setting the waterworks on waterfall to make the cascade falls as planned. The valves worked as planned that I can control how much water is falling. I would not want too much water and end up having a noisy fall inside the house (and to also think of that excessive surface agitation it created).
5. Some cleaning job (they actually cleaned my tainted glass good enough  ). Murky water... 
6. Frame for the skylight (no glass roof yet, coming soon from workshop).

Yesterday I came over by request to inspect how the water flows from the pond, then to the filter and returned via the falls and through two underwater jet holes. Everything seems to work perfectly with constant water level before and after the pump runs (important when power is out, no water is wasted just because the pump is off). The 100W pump seems to be too weak for the job though it has the power of H max, but I'd say it lacks the needed GPH. Whenever I turned the valve to the underwater jet open, the flow to the falls would decrease significantly to a point when there is hardly any falling water.
If bigger pump, special 150-250W pond pumps does not resolve the problem well enough, perhaps I will be adding a powerhead or two in the pond just to improve circulation. 

No pics.... what a great dissapointment :hihi:
I have not been ready during inspections. Perhaps I must plan a special visit with a camera on hands.

There are still a lot of work do be done, far away from being planted (which is also good, all that cement mix takes like forever to properly cure and pH lowered to neutral). From automatic watering system (nozzles or misters) to hole covers, from lighting to wiring. Not to mention all the aquascaping stuff involved. I think it is the right time for me to shop for a 400W MH pendant and a couple of 70W ones to even out/visual effect.


----------



## medicineman

Some pics at last... 

The skylight roof frame is set. It is made of strong aluminium alloy pieces, might not look like it but is rated to withstand a man cleaning on it (important for ease and safety of maintenance). 










Now waiting for the laminated (double bonded) 10mm glass pieces in production. The glass pieces are also film protected to hold them in place in case of being broken. 

This is going to be a nice addition, not only as a free light source but light up the house as well during the day. Even though with no garden inside, a house will feel better with one of these installed.


----------



## medicineman

Now the re-coloured cliff. 

With darker base and more highlights it looks a bit more earthy. The team did painting technique what they call as "washing" (as the name suggest it involves splashing, washing and brushing pigment). 










And here is a close up pic of the surface texture and colour










I like it better now.


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## ianmoede

I'm so jealous. On so many levels.


----------



## medicineman

This is the filter intake. As the work progress, we decided to give it more camuflage so that it would not look obvious.
You can see from the side that the nook is actually a hole, here clearly seen because water level is currently under.










Once water level reaches target height, it will overflow to the filter chambers.

And here you can see once again the filter box. 










Note that now you can no longer see any overflow route since it is already built within. The chambers are closed with a thin plywood for house constuction (stairs for exact). I plan to cover up the chambers later on but with something freely breatheable, wrought iron grill for example. Such grill bars would cover up the ugly view of a filter and would be a great surface to place some pots of house plants (then you have the filter box "dissapear").


----------



## fresh_lynny

I can see some Antheriums on there....
MM, you are kicking butt. I can't wait to see it take on some terrestrial foliage. The skylight is perfect, and the new color re-work on the rock gives it much more depth.


----------



## Binarywhisper

good to see the developments. Your doing a great job of working out the kinks for me


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## medicineman

@fresh_newby,
atheriums would be nice... if the light level over there is enough to support them. The skylight even though big is quite high above, sunlight has no strong access to some spots (and MH lights will play their role).

@Binarywhisper,
Glad that the project gives you a better vision.

More close ups 
Here you can see the textures and colouring highlights better.


----------



## dufus

i think archer fish, mudskippers, stingrays, and knife fish would be awesome, but 2 things wrong , 1- the archer and mudskipper are brackish, 2, tops tops tops!!!

I think tropicals would be cool in here, instead of g/f or arowana's. They would be cool, but you can go to that zoo to see them.

I would have made glass go all the way up and make it escape proof, and put lizards, frogs, and newts in it, with compatible fish and plants, that would be sweet. 

Lookin forward to seeeing finished product.


----------



## medicineman

> I would have made glass go all the way up and make it escape proof, and put lizards, frogs, and newts in it, with compatible fish and plants, that would be sweet.


Heheh.. that is exactly what most people from vivarium forum would like to see/would have done. It would be kinda too big for that though (at least by my opinion).

Another pic showing pot holes and nooks.









The top part will likely enough to support higher light plants, while the lower part is still in doubt. 
There are spots where water flows trough with depth around 1inch or so. Those spots would be great for anubias and such amphibian plants.


----------



## natx

So for planting, are you going to add soil into each of those nooks and crannies for the plants to root in? Have you put much thought into the terrestrial plant species yet?


----------



## GreenerSideofLIfe

This project is simply STUNNING!!

Its getting better every time I see photos of it. I cant WAIT to see this evolve!


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## FelixAvery

this is just crazy man!
i soo badly want your house and tanks lol!
what are you the king of indonesia?


----------



## medicineman

Well, people just need some luck as the factor. I happen to be one lucky enough.
The king?? lol 
The country is a republic. There are small kings of heirarcy though.
Even though the world might consider our country as under development and considerably poor on general, I assure you some are the richest folks in Asia, pretty amusing if you think of it. No, our family is not one of them high rollers 


I have not much to offer as update. The work is pretty much abandoned for now, leaving for re-touch after the whole house renovation mess is complete. You know all that dust flying around, not worth it to work on the garden. It is going longer than anticipated with many modifications made on the house. So those of you who cannot wait to see where this project will lead to must be patient


----------



## A Hill

This is turning out great! I personally would of removed all the gray color though because it just makes it look more like concrete in the pictures at least... 

You will have some fun with this down the road:icon_mrgr :bounce: 

-Andrew


----------



## weaselnoze

can we get a full virtual tour of the house when its finished!? can i bring my gf over for vacation for a week? lol awesome project man. i wanna see some numbers at the end!


----------



## Badcopnofishtank

Luck= putting the odds in your favor by great work and attention to detail.

How is the 260 going?


----------



## medicineman

@Fish Newb,
Not to worry, by the time this is running, I'm sure those cement like parts will darken out. With the plants on and growing (esp the creepers and vines), things will get covered up nice.

@weaselnoze,
Virtual tour? 
I'll see about that.

@Badcopnofishtank,
heheh... you got what I mean by our eastern Luck.
My 260s? Going just like usual.
One is recovering from rescent CO2 shortage.
The other one is in maturing process (will update some time later).

Speaking of CO2 shortage... I think I must back up this pond with a much bigger gas tank. Industrial/welding 55lbs tank will do very nice to ensure long haul.


----------



## weaselnoze

thats a big tank! oh and i was serious about the virtual tour! i love things like that!


----------



## FelixAvery

virtual tour sounds good
maybe strap a camera onto a fish and have it swim around filming everything

actually thats a cool idea, get a waterproof camera case and take underwater photos of the tanks


----------



## A Hill

medicineman said:


> @Fish Newb,
> Not to worry, by the time this is running, I'm sure those cement like parts will darken out. With the plants on and growing (esp the creepers and vines), things will get covered up nice.
> 
> 
> Speaking of CO2 shortage... I think I must back up this pond with a much bigger gas tank. Industrial/welding 55lbs tank will do very nice to ensure long haul.


Yeah, I'm not too worried about it either, once it fills in you won't notice ( We hope right LOL)

Actually, I think you will need something bigger lets do some math... some people but 5lb tank on their 10g... so 5x70= 300lb CO2 tank for you sir that should only come out to :drool: waaaay too much LOL

But seriously, how's it coming? Have you started buying the local greenhouses to fill this thing up?

-Andrew


----------



## sayn3ver

i just hook the tail pipe of my car up to a co2 bottle. :icon_mrgr 

JOKE.


----------



## logan

updates updates!!! pics!!!


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## dufus

sayn3ver said:


> i just hook the tail pipe of my car up to a co2 bottle. :icon_mrgr
> 
> JOKE.


sorry, that's CO, not co2.
(carbon monoxide=:angel: )


----------



## medicineman

@Fish Newb,
Yeah, that would be some CO2 storage that no person would want to have in their house. Should I consume at around 15-20bps, an industrial size gas tank would still last for a year or more .. quite a long time.
Buying from local greenhouse? sadly it is not the time yet.

@logan,
Hoho... patience is good.


To update the project, I'd like to announce nothing for now.
Not a good news for people eager to see what's next coming.
The house is under total renovation as mentioned before, and work has taken much more time than predicted earlier. To make matters worse, the contractor and team seems to be slowed down by constant problems. Some comes from us (by asking too much modifications and updates), some because of poor proffesionalism of our supplier... just imagine that our marble/granite slabs are two months late and the doors are a month behind schedule. I'm sure in USA you will already ask for penalty and call your lawyer :icon_lol: 

I will certainly let know of any work done. Until the time...


----------



## red406

MM...!!!

you have this too??!!! (just discovered this thread...!)

HEBAT SUNGGUH!!! :icon_lol:


----------



## Hop

I have to say that I swing by this site a few times a week and over the past few months, this build has really caught my attention! Great Job!!!!


----------



## RoseHawke

Well, nope, it seems to be pretty normal here when dealing with distributors and contractors for stuff to be late :icon_roll . So much so that when they're _on time, and on schedule_ it's something of a shock!


----------



## medicineman

@red406,
_Terima kasih_ (thank you)
I know in M'sia there are nastier setups like the basement sunken garden... too mad for me though.

@Hop,
Glad you are following so far...

@RoseHawke,
LOL
Lucky enough that we have another house to stay at while waiting.

OK... it has been too long since there is ever any update, so here I go again.

As mentioned before that I might be needing a form of extra lighting to supply the lower part of the garden with sufficient light to grow that compact plants and wider selection. And that lighting source other than natural sunlight which hits in enough intensity during noon hours must be artificially made. To light up something this big while looking good, there can be only one way; going for HID. My choise is MH again since HPS would be too yellow and promotes too much of just vegetative growth.

I pick 400W MH light with tough industrial fixture. All metal alloy casing with reasonable quality reflector combined with 6,000K osram lamp. I know people saying that I might not have enough light intensity and coverage with just 400W and advise double fixture and even a single 1000W MH system.
My doubt about using 400W MH light is answered from testing, as shown here










Hanged at around 3-4 feet from expected water surface (shown here with low water level, around 5 feet away), the fixture spreads almost the correct coverage I want. Not too much spills, but lighting up all the pond area as well as a small part of the lower cliff. Easy on the eyes of the viewers and does not obstruct the overall view too much. Anyway when the house is inhabited, there will be gentle ambient light for the house, negating the extreme contrast a bit.

Selecting 400W light is a correct decision I'd say. You can see part of the cliff is all washed out, indicating how serious 40,000 lumens of light can be even though it is hanged several feet away (compared to several inches in a tank as in CF lights). The top part above the light may be almost pitch dark at night, but during daytime they get much more sunlight than the lower area. That can be fixed easily with mild CF spotlight to create some mellow lighting effects on canopy when it is getting dark.


----------



## A Hill

You aren't going to hang it right there though are you? I think you should use it as a spotlight from maybe under the stairs?

I think it would obscure the view waaaay too much just right in the middle...

-Andrew


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## medicineman

Not to worry too much. I've had to decide position and not from under the stairs at such point due to several considerations :
- Plants are phototropic which means they grow in the direction of where light hits. Giving them light at extreme angle would slant their growth towards the light source. Extreme angle would equal to light source from under stairs.
- Giving even light on the pond. At greater angle, nearer point would be much brighter than the farther area.
- Viewer's discretion. Placing lights too high or from the wrong angle will greatly effect the viewers, possibly causing too much discomfort.

I'm agree with the obstructing view problem. But actually the light itself is very small compared to the rest of the view that I consider it acceptable. There are other ways of installing the light though which involves making poles and steel cables from under the ceiling... which still can be considered. But with the great height and the position of where the light should be is exactly at the glass of the skylight, designing would be some challenge. 
Note that currectly the lamp is hanged with a single wooden beam, just for testing and is not the actual thing.

Now if we see a point of view that probably is not seen yet so far. 










You can notice that the distance between under the stairs and the current lamp height is far apart, the stairs railing is quite near the current lamp height though. So there is another possibility of making a wrought iron extension, artistically designed to hang the lamp on.


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## whitepine

I think you could look into a canopy that would direct the light more like a spot light and hang it closer to the ceiling. You could also do this with a larger lamp(1000w).

Hydroponics, Indoor Gardening Supplies, Hydroponic Systems - home

They also make hangers that can be raised and lowered like blinds.

Cheers, Whitepine


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## medicineman

Using spot light type MH? Might work. But at higher level, more light will be lost and I would end up using much stronger light, such as 2 x 1000W MHs. I think by then I would see some power guzzling issues with other tanks I will be running :icon_conf 

I'm actually planning to hang the light that low, just for the boost of the pond part since the upper region is already well dreched by stray sunlight. The light itself is actually falling in just nice with no obvious dark spot inside the pond.










A wrought iron hanger (garden style) specially shaped and mounted from the stairs' side would look sweet. Add in a pivot on the mount, and the hanger could be swinged to free the view, perfect for sunny months when additional light is less needed and overall photo sessions.


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## filipnoy85

medicineman said:


> A wrought iron hanger (garden style) specially shaped and mounted from the stairs' side would look sweet. Add in a pivot on the mount, and the hanger could be swinged to free the view, perfect for sunny months when additional light is less needed and overall photo sessions.


Good idea! It would look pretty good, just make sure you swing it out of the way of everything else when you free the view. What would be even move cool would be having it on a timer where it automatically swings out of the way during the bright midday and swings back and turns on during the early evening! :drool:


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## plasko

Wow, this project is absolutely amazing!! I am definitely watching this one roud:


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## A Hill

whitepine said:


> I think you could look into a canopy that would direct the light more like a spot light and hang it closer to the ceiling. You could also do this with a larger lamp(1000w).
> 
> Hydroponics, Indoor Gardening Supplies, Hydroponic Systems - home
> 
> They also make hangers that can be raised and lowered like blinds.
> 
> Cheers, Whitepine


Thats what I was thinking... Maybe put it on an automatic timer so at the time when you don't need it, it would be pulled up to the ceiling then say pulled off to the side by some pulley thing to keep it out of the way... I just would hate to see the amazing view gone!

And now I see why they stairs don't work... I thought they where higher!


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## medicineman

Hey... I really like the idea of automatic retrieve and put aside concept!

Though I must think hard and see in what extent I can make that into reality while still looking at the possibility without further altering/modifying the seems never ending house renovation.

A winch, a roller, a pivot and some form of electrical control box for precise trigger mechanism which swings the lamp into place, lowers the cable and hit the power on at the right time and retrieve the cable, hit the light off and swings it back after all is done. Definately a big plus if all of that process can be done automatically via timer. I will need more serious engineering and the right guys to consult, concept and build it for me.


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## reddstagg

Just a simple thought on the automatic retriever... those automated door openers for steel front gates would work a treat, and there must be an easy way to hook it up to an electronic timer. 

However, i wouldn't stray from your original ideas too much, if you get distracted by the bells and whistles of the project you negate the core aspects.

I have been lurking and reading this thread with a lot of interest.
There are 2 'extreme' fish designs i love ready, this one and another guy who grows corals in greenhouses.

Dean


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## A Hill

medicineman said:


> Hey... I really like the idea of automatic retrieve and put aside concept!


Yeah I do too... I would only look into that if I where you. The other ways just make it too ugly really I guess I would say.

How about something like this for a lighting track (no no not the lighting system he has there LOL!)

See First Picture:
Oregonreef.com

More info on his lighting:
Oregonreef.com

My thought is if you could put the lighting on some type of track that isn't exactly straight so it would just need the light to be pulled up then it would pull it over when pulling in the cable... now putting the light back out and over might be a complication...

But I think it would be MUCH better than the other idea. Especially if the light just hung on something like a SS cable, very minimalistic.

-Andrew

Have a link to the coral greenhouse?


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## Evergreen

Can't wait to see some green!


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## medicineman

Hmmm... I'm in the troubleshoot mode on the lighting mounting.

The ceiling is very, very high and I must ask my contractor if it is advisable to make brackets and hang some 30-35lbs of weight (additional weight from cables and such) on it. If not likely, then I'm back to square one using nice and slim metal hanger fitted from the stairs. It is OK each way for me and I'm sure both way would not look that bad if done correctly.










(dont mind the hanger yet)
There will be additional spot lights from the top, not serious light power, just for night time effect.

Just now I think of substrate and it cross my mind that I will be needing more than 2000lbs of gravel/sand! :icon_eek:
Not to mention the transport and price I will face, getting any one kind of substrate in one go will prove a problem. A sand/gravel pit center is the most likely place to hunt. Looking for 50 big bags is not from ordinary shop.
Washing that much sand will give me sore hands and bad back ache for sure. A lot of helping hands and weeks of washing will surely happen and the day eventually will come :help:


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## fish man 101

Any updates on this awesome project medicineman??


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## barfly

Hey MM, your projects are all awesome boy! Can't wait to see the end of this one. =) 

You know what? you could farm aquatic plants in there! and i can help you sell here in singapore, like licensed distributor or something. :wink:

And glad to hear you like to visit here. you do a good job of promoting us. haha! i'll get tourism board to hand you a medal. maybe free passes to the zoo. =)

Keep Posting!


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## trace_lynn

I've been away for a couple of years, but got the aquarium itch again .... I come back to hobby/site and find this .... *OMG this is incredible*. Awesome job! Would love to see any updates or just more photos of whats currently going on with this.


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## medicineman

Well.. not much for an update for now.

The house itself is nearing completion, so the finishing work for the pond and cliff will be continued again soon.

As expected, the whole project is a mess due to the dusty and dirty surroundings. Some stains are hard to remove and dulled the initial colours, now looking more of cementy than earthy or rocky. So good scrubbing and water jetting is to be done in a couple of weeks from now to remove all the dirt and cement dust.

For now I resolve to a simple light hanger for the MH, considering all the troubles I will face should I made something of high tech. I just stick to the basics, reliable wrought iron hanger, bolted to the side of the stairs. It is pre-set to hange the lamp at approx 3 feet away from the water surface. Judging from the light distribution, I think this height is perfect (but we will see later on if it is too intense for plants).

@barfly,
Sure I love the visit to the zoo and that bird park whenever I'm in Singapore!
They seems to have something new waiting, and I could use that healthy walk within the rainforest setup :smile: 
Farming of those exotics? small scale perhaps. The pond is merely a puddle compared to those of real farmer's :icon_roll


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## medicineman

Hi again.... 

Finally the work on the house in nearing completion and it is getting much cleaner now. All the major renovation surrounding the project are generally done and I suppose no more construction jobs left to ruin my pond-cliff. 

After some good cleaning and rinsing off, I found the whole details to be intact. The pond glass are OK with no scratch mark (thank wrappings on the glass panels), but the cliff is not that good. 
Workers were called back again and they re-touched the finishing, giving details and even more vivid colours. Places that will come into contact with water are sealed/coated so that the water system would not get too tainted by alkaliness of curing cement mix (heard it might takes months even several years before leaching stop), giving fish-safe assurance. 

I chose uneven, naturally occuring pebbles of earthy colour as covering for the garden floor, an obvious break to differentiate the house granite floor from the garden floor. 
Hey... it feels nice too when you stand on it, nothing like massaging your feet while enjoying the garden :icon_lol: 









(It actually looks more earthy than in the pic. Pardon me for the standard quality for it is taken using phone camera). 

I guess it is time for me to start planning and collecting some plants, saving for what next to come. This is escpecially important for the emmersed plant part to be given head start since they grow slowly acting as main factor for that "jungle" look over time.


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## Jessica

Oh I'm so glad to see this thread continuing. MM, you're my hero. haha!


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## knuggs

This is going to be awesome when it gets done. You are living my dreams.


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## medicineman

Well... there is a minor setback that we found yesterday.

I've left some water to stand inside the pond for months for testing, making sure nothing leaks. Sure, it is good enough for I did not see any sudden drop in water level, nor any wet spot surrounding the pond, as well as no wet area by the other side of walls. No sweat, no worry, the pond is all water tight.

Yesterday I asked construction workers to fill in the empty pond (just rescently cleaned and I want it filled back). There is an overflow water level check drain (4) located at the filter box to keep water level constant. This overflow drain is being plugged (so to keep it from being clogged by construction debris), and out of their knowledge, complying to my request, they filled the pond full enough to just over the drain level (but not to the point where water is overflowing from the filter). 

Sure enough a new flaw is discovered not long after.










Now if you take a good look at the filter box. The level of watertight layer is just a bit above the planned water level. The rest above that is not water tight (crust, porous cement work). When water gets over the watertight level, disaster will happen as we witnessed not long after, the room behind was flooded by some seeping overflowing water. This would never happen if the overflow check drain is not closed. Though not a major setback and almost impossible to happen again under normal operating condition, I do not accept such flaw and decided to play the safe route.

Adding 15-20cm of additional height to water tight layer will make sure nothing leaks to next door, even if accident like overfilling the pond happens.

I guess even with careful planning to details, flaws will always exist :icon_roll


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## medicineman

Ladies and gentlemen.... I present to you the finished, cleaned product 









taken at 1 hour before dawn 

No... not planted or decorated yet, but that part will be on the way. 
This time no work will ever stain or dirty my garden again, for all major work on the house is finally over. 

If you can note some plants are already there, but still in their pots and not yet planted and I still need heck a lot of plants to fill in the crannies. 

It came across me the idea of a bird's nest. The same structure could be artificially built from degradable natural material such as woven plant fiber (probably attached to the walls by nails) and this can act as vantage points for epifits such as ferns, vines, small bromeliads. Already I made some three fern panels to attach bird nest fern to the walls. 

A major setback that prevent me from proceeding to planting is the lack of misting system. It is virtually difficult to find any around here. Some that are available are large greenhouse "aeroponics" pumps, while othes are high pressure fogging machines running at 1000-1500 PSI. These are just out the equation for me, in capacity, pressure, machine size and not to mention the ridiculous price tag ($1,500 at the least). 

This forced me to resolve something such as DIY misting system. I'm talking about high pressure cleaning machine, portable size (the stuff they use for cleaning your AC). They are able to run long time at once (though still considered intermitent duty) and max out at 500 PSI, but is adjustable via a meter gauge to run at less than half that pressure. The flow rate is 0.7 gpm, and with the right nozzles I think I will be able to run at least a dozen or so of modestly sized spays. No performance chart... but so far this is the best that I can find, costing very low at just around $ 100.

For the submersed scape fans : sorry, no aquascape yet. It is, I think the easiest and last part (though the hardest to balance) and can wait for last.


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## dufus

Wow, it's gorgeus.
Is the water clear? Have fun with the mist system,lol.


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## Roc

Looks amazing.......

Could we get some more photos, like close-ups of different parts of the tank and background, although it is a beautiful pic it's hard to grasp exactly what it really looks like from that one photo


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## Martin

I *heart* medicineman !!

wonderful finish.

by misting you mean for CO2? or for humidity in room?

if for CO2, how about pondsize powerheads?

if for humidity.. well... sry... no idea, though an easily adaptable product would be the misters used for terrariums..

or garden misters.

In greece I saw misters placed behind cooling fans to spread out the mist.


If all these ramblings are way off.. well.. I refuse to delete...


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## RoseHawke

Garden misters, yes. I've ordered from a company here in the states before, DripWorks, but can't find on their website if they'll ship overseas or not. Just another option.

That looks absolutely awesome MM! Can't wait to see it planted!


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## natx

Yeah seems like a drip hose around the top could water the entire wall. Man this is going to be very cool when its all planted. I assume the entire wall will be mostly obscured once the plants grow in.


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## ovenmit331

just read all 13 pages! amazing work. and all in your living room!!! any final thoughts on fauna?


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## CampCreekTexas

OMG!!! Spectacular!! That is going to be GORGEOUS when it's all planted!! Can't wait to see that.


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## A Hill

I can't see the picture....:icon_cry: 

Is it just me? I'm sure it's amazing!

-Andrew


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## Martin

perhaps you're impatient?
picture is LARGE!


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## TheOtherGeoff

picture has hit its bandwidth usage and isnt showing up currently


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## KnaveTO

... really would love to see the finished product


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## medicineman

I'm very sorry for the used-up link for the pic. I was experimenting with a local file share service which is supposed to be much quicker, but now turned out to run out quickly when the hits reach the day's quota :icon_redf 

So here it is again....









To answer some questions :
Yes, the misting system I'm talking about is water irrigation/humidity control system. Not too sure to go with raw backwall watering, clould end up wetting too much than wanted. That is of course will be different with misters (150PSI+), or at least finer ones like fine sprinklers (50 PSI range). Mist will also raise local humidity (they land nearby after floating a short while) and give emergent form of emmersed aquatic growth a better condition.
Too low pressure (household pressure) and I will end up having raw, splattery water irrigation, may be too wet for some plants and may seep to outside the garden. Too high of pressure will also cause me trouble, creating fine fog that might end up somewhere I do not want them to be (humidifying the whole room).

About water part CO2 : I'm planning mist system as well since there will be much outgassing from the cliff waterworks. By going trough CO2 mist route I expect better result in counteracting this loss since CO2 will also be trapped via stomatas and not just from diffusion of those dissolved in water. I will get large diffuser discs and blow them into strong powerheads. I've tried this and the effect is homogen mist, almost fog like all around my 260 gallon tank at just 3-4bps (decided that it is not that good for a tank, I'm not a big fan of fog in a tank).


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## medicineman

As per requested for details, here is a pic of the waterworks in action (shown only the center part). 
Sorry for the standard freehand pic. To create whitewater effect and see the flow clear next time I will need a tripod and slow shutter speed.










The flow dribbles trough intended spots, creating the desired effect. No excessive splashes (tunable via a ball valve strainer) and water surface of the pond/tank remains relatively still enough to enjoy aquatic plants (will be there later on) from above. 

The flow path is also suitable for growing emmersed form of aquatic plants or bog plants such as anubias, water sprite, moss.


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## fish man 101

:icon_eek: wow, truly amazing man! that is absolutely stunning. Bet it bit the bank a bit though.


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## HEINEKEN357

Fing Sweet bro great job cant wait till the plants and fish go in..


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## medicineman

Here in close up you can see that water surface is being set quite high, following nowaday's trend. I like it that way, even though this might cause me those jumpy fish. 










In reality it looks more like that the water will overflow in any minute, but it wont since there is already an overflow box to the filter to keep it level.

@ovenmit331,
Nope. Have not set my mind on certain fauna. However plants are already set, at least I want to go for the lower maintenance ones since it would not be funny to go in and soak myself every two weeks.

@fish man 101,
Could bit me worse should I think of something more crazy (such as raising the water level twice higher and setting for full glass enclosure).

Well guys, I take my time finishing this one so expect patience. After all, no one is moving in yet. The place is being looked after only by maids now.


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## ovenmit331

flippin sweet! i like that water level. any official size in gallons?

and what flora have you decided on?


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## Simoriax

Wow...just wow. I would kill for that 

That hammerhead might get a tad big for even this tank though...


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## FelixAvery

ovenmit331 said:


> flippin sweet! i like that water level. any official size in gallons?
> 
> and what flora have you decided on?


uuuh try reading the title :icon_roll 

looking lovely medman


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## ovenmit331

FelixAvery said:


> uuuh try reading the title :icon_roll
> 
> looking lovely medman



uhhh try reading the entire thread... early estimate was 700... i asked for a more updated closer to real number.


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## medicineman

The tank is estimated at 700 gallons and no less than that. It is not easy for me to count the exact since the shape does not allow simple math to reveal actual net volume.

Flora that in the list would contain crypts, echinodorus and lets see what exactly turns out later.


I just test run the filtration system (this far pump was only on for short periods without anything in the filter) for half day on just a single filter floss sheet in one of the filter chambers. Water in tank was a bit murky the night before, and the next morning the clarity is greatly improved. Puts quite a smile in my face, seeing that the design actually works very well despite of just a single, under capacity filter floss is being used. Sure enough, with actual capacity filter media and constant flow there is no doubt that the water would stay crystal clear.


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## medicineman

More pics on the pond and its surroundings.



















I started with more robust plants on the cliff. Here already you can easily notice some bird nest fern off several variety. I also use bromeliads and assorted philodendron sp as creeping plants, some of newer and exotic variety so to create a new look than usual.

The rest of finer and more demanding plants must wait until a misting system is installed or else I will face the consequence of misting/spraying them manually three times a day (instead of once a day with current plants).
I've failed to find any misting system for vivarium despite that the project has been on construction for extented time. The ones they have available are ridiculous on scale, pricing and pressure. So I'm turning my point of view to DIY, as I found that swiftlets houses (read for expensive bird nest delicacy) are some equipped with such thing as misters (artificial humidity control to make the birds feel at home). 
Funny enough, the machine came from a pressure cleaning appliance and the seller knew straight away (guessed that I'm installing it into a swiftlets house)when I asked for the machine-without any hose or spray guns.
With 3 pistons running 30 bars of pressure and 1GPM of flow, I can be sure this one is a likely contender.

The pond part is one to continue next. I will need at least 1500 pounds of gravel to nicely fill it in. This is not going to be fun to collect, buy and clean.... (backache and hand blisters are coming :icon_roll )


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## knuggs

Coming along nicely:thumbsup:


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## medicineman

Next is planning for constant water change system, or in another case, easy water change system. 

As stated before, there is an overflow check to the drain by the pond that will keep water level constant, so no more spills to the house no matter what happens (forgot to keep an eye on the tap while WC for instance). By adding in new water, the total mixture of excess new+ old water will get to the drain.
Same like what most people face, I'm seeing our local tap water instead of my own well water) as a better source for it came from such that the hardness is not too high (kH 2-4 and gH 3-5). The only drawback is that like most tap water, it is treated with clorine by the company. Most of the time the concentration is so low that people can go right ahead use it straight away without killing fish. However on bad days, the concentration may elevate a bit to the level that it will start to kill some of your weaker fish.

Not wanting to go to time consuming manual WC and using something like chlorine remover all the time, I resolve to carbon filter route. After all, our fellow members here have proved that using double, sometimes a single carbon block before the tank is effective enough (thanks to scolley for the posting). I get myself a cabon filter canister and some carbon blocks and fortunately they are quite cheap around here at just $14-15 a set. If it is not good enough, I guess I have to use two or three in line.

Anyway, here is another pic showing another side of the garden. You can see the stairs from here, and it seems going to be a good place to enjoy top view.


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## LondonDragon

thats just amazing  congrats
how about some photos of the room from different angles to get a better idea where this is situated?
Keep us posted on this great project


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## zach

wow, that tanks probably bigger than mine, NO JOKE


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa

Wow it's so beautiful and it's not even finished yet. I can't wait to see it in its full glory


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## Roc

Funny thing is if I was buying a house and saw this tank, no matter what the rest of the house looked like I would have to have it....LOL


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## Gill

Its breathtaking, Well worth the effort.


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## Paul999

That is really fantastic!!!

A credit to your patience and planning ability. Top marks.

Watching with interest,
Regards
Paul.


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

what have you got for a substrate in the tank, i just went through all 15 pages and didnt see that specified.

as for what fish. whats the water parameters, and what sort of temprature do you get.

for me a large school of eartheaters and discus/angels, maybe some dwarf sp,(like apistos, or mikrogeophagus and similar), allong with corydoras, tetras and BN plecs (i know they wont show up as well as a big plec, but they will eat the algae) possibly rays, though they'd like it open, so that would spoil the planting aspect.

the advantage in choosing amazonian fish is they will cope with high heat (several sp live at or above 30c) (corydoras wont apprciate that unless you get something like C sterbei)(i noticed you talked a lot about chillers)


----------



## A Hill

Hey MM it's looking great! I really like how the finish looks.

I just thought of a possible frog that you might want to look into, "White's Tree Frog(s)" They're a fairly large tree frog that I've read can be trained to stay in a "room" or a specific spot in the house. Usually it was done with a few plants and a water dish, but I think this might work. 

Can the light swing away during the day?

-Andrew


----------



## FelixAvery

im pretty sure at some point he mentioned going hunting for large bags of gravel , so i think thats what he is using
its certainly too big for aquasoil, imagine the cost!


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## zach

thats tanks huge


----------



## medicineman

Thanks for the compliments folks!

@Fish Newb,
Sadly, no. The light is fixed. I may also made a mistake on this one, should have at least set it higher and suspend the fixture using steel cable, playing on the safe side. Should later the intensity proved to be too great, I must ask a re-do on the whole light hanger :icon_redf 
Hey.. frogs. That would be hilarious. With somewhat medium to high humidity and average warm temperature all over the house, the creature might stray to the bathroom :icon_lol:

@FelixAvery,
Well, you got the point right. It is virtually impossible to get large amount of fancy substrate right here. Sure I can special order and import myself, renting a portion of a freight container. Will certainly end up with large sum of bill, probably three times the original price tag and I would not want that. Another thing that deter me from using AS is Tom Barr's experience of going into the tank and becoming a fish for one day, finding that AS is a no go for bigger tank - too much mess, he said.


I did prepare good old school gravel, locally obtained. Whitish quartz, that is the best I can get (you probably know this one already if you have seen any one of my existing setups). 
700+ lbs of it in huge bags, mined from off shore island of Bangka and specially pre-ordered and now waiting to be washed clean. I've done this before and I know Its going to be painful, so I'm getting lots of helping hands for assistance.

There was another option, also quartz mined from other area. Some are rather sharp edged, some are earthy coloured, which would be a better choise but they are extremely muddy and almost impossible to wash clean, even when done dozens of times.

I think bright coloured substrate, though might not be up to some folk's taste, should fit in the best in this tank. You can already see now what is the effect of dark ground within the tank when the light is out. 
Reflection from everywhere overwhelms the glass panels, and I observe that when it is brighter inside (before applying black pond waterproofing), the reflection from outside is somewhat diminished (almost gone when light is on though).

As good as the planning and design goes, there will always be a flaw. Another one I found is having too small of overflow waterway. 
With the current pump power I'm using right now, more reserve water is needed just to even out between returning and overflowing water. 
Just like in a tank with an overflow filter, you must use big enough bulkhead so not to create imbalance between the tank and the sump. 
It is minor work nevertheless, so there goes chisel, hammer and drill again, enlarging the overflow waterway to the filter box.


----------



## medicineman

It has been some time eversince I stalled the project. 

With huge bags of gravel stacked by the store room, I start to collect the rest of what I need. 

One thing is another CO2 regulator. This part is easy as it can be obtained from many shops, for fish tank or not, it does not matter to me as long as I make it work.

It goes quite different around here for CO2 cylinders. You need to own one instead of exchanging for a filled one. Naturally, I want to have the biggest cylinder I can get, and I want a good tank which will not fail and last a long time before I need to get another one. 
Iron-based ones are quite plentiful, new or used, but they rust over time. 
A hunt for big aluminium cylinder was on and I finally managed to get 20lbs capacity.
Bad timing.... no CO2 gas for now. Need to queue for a long time before any fresh supply from factory will ever come (another reason to own several big gas cylinders). Fortunately the refill shop is kind enough to lend me a half filled tank - just because he owns an aquascape as well and know how bad it is not to have any CO2.

I also managed to collect much needed big enough powerhead/pump to power CO2 micro bubbler - my plan of CO2 diffusion into the pond. Since there is a huge outgassing process that will be happening on the waterfall part, I think it is better to create small bubbles of CO2 and blow them out like a mist. These will get stuck everywhere and dissolve, hopefully absorbed by plant stomatas that outgassing is no longer a big problem. I have done this before in a tank with those bad wet and dry filter and the result is quite acceptable.

As time goes by, my research pays off. 
Somehow continuing from a success in making quality root tabs, I find a way and create another product... my own base fertilizer.
(dont mind the label... it is just for fun right now)









Like usual, I turn mad scientist and decided that it is going to be the fertilizer to test in large scale. 40+ lbs of the stuff, mixed 1:5 ratio with plain gravel to become base fertilizer. This is a critical decision which I may or may not regret. With a large stake, there is no turning back now.


----------



## joe the pleco

This is an incredible project

When did you start it?


----------



## JasonHornbuckle

that's amazing


----------



## medicineman

@joe the pleco,
Planning started off way back for more than a year. Construction works quite slow following the house progress. 

Back to project,
Here is how the concept base fertilizer looks like









Light brown grain of high concentrated granules that it has to be mixed well with a part of plain sand/fine gravel to work. It got lots of stuff inside ranging from minerals, iron, micro elements to partially soluble macros. I dont expect best result out of the first initial testings, but will hopefully get more refined later on.

I mix the stuff to 5 times it mass (which I say is a bit to the strong side) with dry 1mm grade silica sand, 40+lbs of fertilizer to 200+lbs of sand in total. I didnt bother to clean/wash the sand beforehand since it is intended to be placed at the bottommost part of the setup, forming a layer of heavy mix 1-1.5 inch thick. 
Then another layer of capping 1-3mm grade gravel is added on top to seal the mix from water collumn, totalling in about 3-4 inches of substrate.

Meanwhile we take a look at some of the emmersed plants I planted earlier for a head start. With the correct care and enough mix of added fertilizer, they started promisingly to take off.

Here is a kind of red Piper sp, a climber.









And here you can see a group of climbing green Philodendron sp


----------



## Subotaj

very nice..
can you please take a photo of the overall garden?!


----------



## natx

This will be the greatest installation in planted tank history.


----------



## medicineman

Need to be patient about that.
Will definately show the full screen again  

Meanwhile, I went for hunting hardscape. What I have in my mind is huge branchy driftwood, but unfortunately such piece is likely originated from a living mangrove. All my suppliers seems to be detered if I ask for bigger piece of whole mangrove driftwood, probably because of the fact that huge pieces can be obtained only by killing a good sized mangrove tree. Then it would take some time to cure properly, not to mention there is a risk of people getting involved getting arrested for cutting mangroves.

So I must be satisfied with just smaller pieces and other wood alternatives. I found this huge piece of driftwood, rasamala tree type (a kind of wood suitable and commonly used) and bought it home.

Comparative size with a standard brick piece 









Good thing that the wood is readily sinking halfway, I just need to soak it further in my pond for a few days. The seller also promise me an exchange if I cannot use it, so nothing to lose!

Not enough of just DW, I proceed with hunting suitable rocks ornament. There are so many alternative out there, ranging from roundish smooth river rocks, reddish pumice, hard slates, unsuitable calcium based rocks, petrified wood to lava rocks. I pick the last, porous lava rocks, good size.









Just one of more than a dozen piece I bought home. Hope I'm good enough in doing rock arrangement :icon_redf


----------



## CampCreekTexas

Oh, WOW!!! That wood is fabulous, MM! I can't wait to see what you do with it.


----------



## Storm_Rider

the wood reminds me of the wu tang logo. 

i really like the progress, wish you'd take more pictures to make up for lack of updates


----------



## medicineman

It is time to fill in substrate.

First, like I mentioned before, the first layer of substrate-fertilizer goes in. 20kg+ of base fert mixed well with around 100 kg of plain gravel.









Then, additional plain gravel for capping is added, forming a nice layer of plant bed some 3-4 inch thick, sealing the fert mix below from getting directly into water collumn.
You can see here the substrate is being manually flattened and inspected for correct minimum depth (since there is no way to see by eye if enough substrate is being used.


















In total, currently 12 big sacks of white silica sand, 1-3mm grade goes in (some 1200+ lbs).

After that water is filled in slowly, up to a halfway point. This is because I just want to condition the tank first before pumping excessive water out later on and start again with hardscaping and eventually planting.


----------



## kunerd

honestly man its awesome. its look like it should be at a zoo or something.....


----------



## Roc

Everytime I read this thread I talk to my wife about what we will be doing when we buy a home.............She is never amused


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

> In total, currently 12 big sacks of white silica sand, 1-3mm grade goes in (some 1200+ lbs).


given you went with sand as a top layer, I would REALLY consider some smaller stingrays (the tanks big enough for large 1s, however if you choose smaller ones you can both have more, and have more room for planting.) some eartheaters (such as Geophagus Altifrons, Satanoperca Jupari) maybe some dwarf pikes (Crenicichla regani or similar) large tetras (such as Hyphessobrycon columbianus{colombian tetra}, Thoracocharax stellatus{silver hatchet}, Gymnocorymbus ternetzi{black skirt tetra})

though the tetras might end up snacks so maybe endlers would be better (as they just keep breeding (went to rotterdam zoo, and allmost all the tanks had them in, despite activly predatory fish in there)

medium sized plecs (such as BN plecs) though a decent school of otos would be impressive


----------



## dufus

Might i suggest some colorfull bromeliads for the wall?
And i second the stingray idea.


----------



## FelixAvery

looks sweet med!
in my opinion you could go either the route of larger fish like stingrays ect.
or go for a look like amanos massive tank with literally hundreds of characins and other small fish species?


----------



## Raul-7

A mound-setup would work beautifully with this setup, IMHO. You can even allow the plants to grow emersed forming a little island sanctuary in the middle. Or imagine having a series of three islands arranged in a triangle, would look really unique. But regardless, this is one awesome setup. I like your style.


----------



## natx

kunerd said:


> honestly man its awesome. its look like it should be at a zoo or something.....


Yeah I was at the New England Aquarium for member's night last night, and as much as I love that place and their beautiful exhibits, they don't have anything that could hold a candle to the level of detail and craftsmanship being put into this project.


----------



## A Hill

The pictures look great and the hanger looks really nice. Too bad its stationary... Ohh well. Could I suggest trying to get a brass cover for the light made making it all look much more sleek and together? If made make sure there is plenty of vents 




natx said:


> Yeah I was at the New England Aquarium for member's night last night, and as much as I love that place and their beautiful exhibits, they don't have anything that could hold a candle to the level of detail and craftsmanship being put into this project.


Thats because its a personal location with privet funds. That seems to be the way of the world...

-Andrew


----------



## runwithit

that tank dwarfs you... i guess i really understood how big it was until the pic with you in it. wow.. truly emazing. the possibilities are limitless.


----------



## medicineman

Thank you for comments and supports.

@fish_newb
Brass fixture would be nice, colour and shape blends in well. Not so easy to buy/make one though.

@runwithit,
The guy inside was not me :icon_mrgr 
(if you remember my other tank with this poor guy stuck inside)
Who will take the shot then?

@Dufus,
There is a big brom already. Need to find more of the smaller sp, or some tilandtia and orchids.

@PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn,
Stingray is one possibility. Motoro ones would be nice, they can remain plate small and tamed to be handfed.


I decided the new wood is too big and bulky for this use. Good enough that the seller allows for goods exchange (perhaps I will pick plants or branchy slender woods).

Being finished in soaking and cleaning for fine dust for these past few days,
all lava rocks goes in and form the hardscape, creating a bit beachy look.









Kinda split into two sections of rock grouping. Another angle of view from top.









And one other from the side.









Now I can see that I got lots of open space by the front area. Perhaps a good place to plant some tiny plants, of course in partially. I'm thinking of hairgrass, that is if I can find enough number this weekend (well, another waste of water because I will want level to be low enough for planting in).


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

have you thought about adding some shelves to the back, so you could put smaller plants at the back there 

personally i like the wood like that, and would try and get a fem more pieces that match (create a river bank feel)


----------



## FelixAvery

its nice but i feel you need more uright element to the hardscape
like this tank
http://www.naturacquario.net/amano/all05/01.jpg
http://www.naturacquario.net/amano/all05/02.jpg
http://www.naturacquario.net/amano/all05/03.jpg
http://www.naturacquario.net/amano/all05/06.jpg


----------



## medicineman

Well... if it is not one of Mr Amano's masterpiece.
I cannot agree more that I need slender branches, probably the ones that pierce out of water to give the pond a better look. This must be done in the future, look for good driftwood and soak them well.


Planting time now.

My package of plants arrived to my delight. Two boxes full of plants. This time I did not hunt for plants, I back ordered them for the best and preferably the good sized ones. I got various bigger size hygrophilla, huge cypts, assorted echinodorus, some crinum, some ferns and others.

I start off immediately, not leaving excess precious time before the plants can go bad. First of all water level is being lowered as low as possible to ease planting job. Then the planting continue in just damp condition, and in this way of planting, things get much easier. No excessive murkiness since ther is no disturbance to the substrate to mix with water. When planting dry, a handheld sprayer is your best friend, keep the plants moist enough during the planting and filling water.


















It took quite some time to fill the pond despite the fact that the house is fitted with double 1000L water towers and two wells. Reserves almost ran out so water filling must be stopped for a while and continue the next day.


----------



## rodney

Very nice job medicine man. IMHO I prefer medicine mans aquarium a tad more than aminos. Sure aminos is nice but it really only revovles around the scape and not so much the fish. Medicines looks natural and looks as if it would be a better natural habitat to observe the fish. 

But eh what do I know im still having trouble with my 10 gallon LOL.

Rodney


----------



## FelixAvery

looks AMazaing! love it


----------



## dufus

Cool, gonna be fun to see this one later.

May i suggest some plants?
1st- Philidendron monstera(monstera deliciosa) or similar.
It has large(1meter or so) leaves and it vines and is epiphitic.

2. Alocasia "black velvet"
my favorite alocasia, has a nice color to it and stays fairly small ussually.

3. philidendron gloriosum
another nice philo that creeps instead of vines.


----------



## medicineman

@dufus,
Thanks. I could use more plants for the cliff. Collect and buy them slowly.

@rodney,
Well... Amano has his own unique styling and they are good.

Filled and running now. The filter started to work and hopefully in several days, the combination of filter and bacteria will clear up the water murkiness.
My 20lb+ CO2 cylinder is not back yet from refilling (yeah, no more CO2 in the city like last time!) and currently I use spare leftover 4lb one. Running at 6bps via 3 blown micro bubbler points, I am hoping it could buy some time.










Seen from second floor. Quite a jewel at night.









I'm not finished with planting the pond yet. Thing is I ran out of small plants. Planting will continue with several dozens of foreground plants later on, though I still like to left a large amount of open space by the front for fishies to hang around. Then some more plants to the waterworks, perhaps anubias and some emmersed growth aquatic plants will work.


----------



## jeffboyarrdee

THis is awesome! a dream setup for me! are you having melting problems with crypts?


----------



## JasonHornbuckle

i personally am not a big fan of the "branches coming up out of the water" look

i'm sure there are lots of other things you could do to give a similar effect. like planting trees or something that would grow out of the water, or using really tall rocks or whatever


----------



## jeffboyarrdee

yea! or atleast have branches coming out with vines on them, or some plant life


----------



## gotwins86

Awesome! Looks really good. I was just kinda skimming through the first few pages so I might have missed it, but have you decided on what type of fish you are putting in there?


----------



## rodney

jeffboyarrdee said:


> yea! or atleast have branches coming out with vines on them, or some plant life



LOL why everyone wants to copy what other people have already done I don't know. Honestly, I have spent hours skimming through ada aquariums and hardly ever see anything new, just different combinations of what other people have done, be creative for goodness sake:thumbsup: 

Rodney


----------



## Brunog

I personnaly would not put pieces of wood that come out of the water...

might smell bad after some time.. and attract insects... mold...

I had a large pond with a waterfall where i used to work... and the wood got really bad... and it wasnt supposed to rot or anything... slime just deposits on it...


----------



## addo

WOW this is one of the most impressive builds I've ever seen, great job! roud: 

One question thou, I might have missed this but is your light fixture temporary? Because It sorta brings down the overall appearance of the setup.


----------



## medicineman

@addo
The light will remain there for some time before I decide to modify it. It is all and the best I can get/make for now.


And here is the garden around 4-5 days after initial setup day.
Water clears up a bit and already I put in several algae eater to counter excessive algae growth.










Lets see towards free time and more possible plants and hardscape to use in the pond. 
Some tree trunk or bark and more plants for the cliff would be nice.

So I decided to put one of my favourite fish in, several hundread of schooling rummy nose will do I think. Pre order is necessary at this scale and now it proves good to know someone from local fish farm


----------



## spypet

medicine, you should spend time reading a few Pond threads
to see what fish look nice from ABOVE as well as the sides.
also consider dozens of larger schooling fish,
instead of hundreds of smaller ones.


----------



## sNApple

sweet!!!! are you gonna have a drip or mister system for the wall? pack the walls with aquarium moss if so


----------



## wood

To solve the light position I would put a fake "mangrove" or other type of fake tree in the back corner, up against the wall with roots going into the water. Let the tree hang over the water halfway and put a light on one of the branches. Cover the sides of the light with leaves and such. I think that would look awesome. Everything would have to be fake and painted, but I think it would really add more character to the garden and would solve the light issue perfectly!

horrible rendition but just to show you what I mean:


----------



## jeffboyarrdee

rodney said:


> LOL why everyone wants to copy what other people have already done I don't know. Honestly, I have spent hours skimming through ada aquariums and hardly ever see anything new, just different combinations of what other people have done, be creative for goodness sake:thumbsup:
> 
> Rodney


i dont know whats wrong with it, it looks natural. he wanted ideas i thought branches with plants on it would look nice. No one ever said ada "owns" the look of branches with plants on it, you can definitely still be creative. i was thinking more along the lines of a mangrove type thing with branches/roots going down. i really like the look of how those trees look like they are avoiding water.


----------



## FelixAvery

maybe have giant WK islands with frogs and stuff on


----------



## medicineman

@sNApple,
Still no mister for now. I'd like to have some in certain spots, would be interesting addition.

@spypet,
Considering that. There will be definately larger species in the tank, with many tiny schooling ones of course. I can not resist those schooling spectation like what you see at piers.


Well, I'd love to make fake tree structure one day. It would look even better, similar to those world class zoo exhibits. If only I can find the right guy on time, it is not so easy to get the perfect hands for the job. There are these people handling artificial tree decoration, plants looks so real, sure they cost money but I think it is worth it for future upgrade project. I just have to make sure they create something moisture proof unlike some artificial tree for a hotel.

Here is another shot showing one side viewing glass. Somehow I felt should have made it a tad bit bigger viewing glass :tongue:


----------



## kzr750r1

You have made some great strides in the last few months. Don't lament too much about not enough viewing space under water. The over all balance of the entire room is impressive. With more plants on the walls there will be plenty to look at. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing the detail of your build with us.


----------



## cah925

Wow, this looks better and better every time I look at it. Keep up the good work.


----------



## danepatrick

so do you wear a diving suit to replant and do water changes? :hihi:


----------



## vibes_jedi99

Just Wow!!!.........


----------



## Landon

medicineman,
I followed this build for a while over at dendroboard, but got out of frogs due to an unfortunate accident a while back. Im very happy to find its progressed to this level. Its absolutely beautiful! I cant wait to see how it fills in on the back walls with new plants and decorations and such. 

You seem like youve got a good hold on design and plant placement, but the only suggestion I have, is dont go too crazy with too many different species. With all that space Id be wanting to put one of everything up there. In reality that gets destracting, and large groups of species would look mroe natural, and become more beautiful as opposd to looking cluttered.

Good luck and Im very happy to follow this topic along!


----------



## medicineman

@Landon,
Glad you find the forum and can follow the updates here.
It is also because of vivarium and dendroboard that struck me on the inspiration in the first place.

@danepatrick,
Nope, long pincer and tongs do the job for me. Of course this is limited to light maintenance routine. Heavy one will require some puddling into the pool :icon_roll 

Sure I will try to keep the number of species low (no more collectoritis!), though sometimes a careful selection can still look great. The problem is some plants just give up the ghost in this setup, and I will try out many things initially just to see which can survive (you may find this surpirising that some easy to grow plants actually die!).
I've witnessed some ferns and vallisneria spiralis melts away, while every single echi and crypt made it and appears to be throwing new leaves.

Anyway, here is a teaser pic of current condition with the lights off (to give an idea how sunlight is being used).










So far I have put in 150 rummy nose tetra (they form a good school to spectate esp during feeding time) and 6 juvenile bala shark. I'm expecting 2-3 dozens of Puntius denisonii in a week or two, that is if my supplier made it on time.


----------



## Aquamanx

Are you going to put any kind of bottom feeder/catfish in there? Maybe a couple of Pictus Cats or something? They make a great addition to an aquarium, they move around alot!


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

with the rummy noses being in there i think adding a pictus would be asking for trouble. I know it only gets to 5", however I've found that rummy noses are very slender and are therefore suceptable to being eaten quite easily. and i'd imagine that 150 tetras wasnt that cheap.

what about apistogramma, mikrogeophagus and similar dwarf cichlid sp.

as for the catfish, what about a large school of otos (50-100 or so...)


----------



## zackish

http://cgi.ebay.com/Saltwater-Aquar...ryZ20755QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## crazy loaches

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> with the rummy noses being in there i think adding a pictus would be asking for trouble.


Maybe some loaches to get the leftovers on the bottom?


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

50 ******* or so....

some loaches would be cool, though what sp i dont know, clowns i think would get a bit big (not sure what their like with little fish at the bigger sizes, read a think about them eating fish when they get ready to breed)

maybe something like the polka dot loach. or small 1s like that.

have to admit my preference would be for a large school of cories


----------



## dufus

I'd go with a big school of Corydoras leopardus or similar, maybe 30-40, and 6 or less yoyo or whatever loaches, then about 100 otos, and some rare plecs.
Maybe a synodontis or two if you want a bigger cat/wetpet.


----------



## joe the pleco

I would suggest The Golden Wonder Panchax.
Info

Mine stay at the top of the tank and look quite good from above

Saw (and bought) some today are really pretty fish.


----------



## dufus

Yea, but they are EXCELLENT jumpers, and will eat the rummies.


----------



## medicineman

@PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn,
It is good that personally know where to get rummy nose directly from the farm. 11 cent each is sure to be damn cheap, but still I prefer not to see them get eaten as they are not intended to be feeder fish. 
Ottos would be nice, but they are expensive and highly sensitive import while not readily available right now.

I already have some bottom feeders to keep leftovers clean. 6 adult sterbai cory and 5 small one, looking for at least a dozen more everytime I'm out to LFS.
4 tiny clown loach (they will never get big enough I witnessed) to help keep the pond snails in check.

@zackish,
That is certainly a huge tank. Still for now I prefer this pond, no space for a monster tank.

@dufus,
Synodontis is one possible option for a lone big one though most would stay away from view when it is bright.


----------



## dufus

Medman- I have a synodontis hybrid who stays out especially at feeding, and my Synodontis eupterous stays out all the time, 24/7


----------



## BigB

my syno eupo is always zoooming around during lights on. Then retreats to relax in his cave now and then


----------



## medicineman

Well.. it is good to know that some synodontis does actually posh itself in the tank when the light is on. Must look for these varieties then.
Mine (upsidedown synodontis) in a small tank will only appear when it is feeding time :icon_roll 

Another quickie pocket camera pic showing from viewing glass. You can see some of the fish.









There is still that huge pipe inside which I have not hack, still waiting for the time when water is drained to quarter for I sure do not want to bathe in with a saw at hand :icon_lol:

Temperature is stable at 27,5 C with a variation of 0,5 C. 
I dose my liquid fert from Wonder-Gro (yes... my own production) by the glassfull.
Still tinkering on how long the lights must be on. So far with 3 hours of MH lighting the plants are growing just fine, but with more green growth to reddish plants, I see that increased photoperiod via the lamp could be beneficial.


----------



## medicineman

Update on the details...

Echinodorus rubin "narrow". They do no longer sell this beauty at tropica anymore...








Growing quite fast (25+ leaves) as I got this specimen earlier as a plantlet (12 or less leaves) from a collector in Singapore. Must have been the short burst of direct sunlight from the canopy as the growth and colour is equally stunning. A good sized lace plant (Crinum calamistratum) I got from tropica mass import earlier, fortunate enough it does not do anything bad since it is not cheap and easy to get.

Assorted plants (Limnophila aquatica, Hygrophila, vallisneria, Saggitaria, etc) covering a huge Echinodorus marble queen. Some direct burst of sunlight proved to be highly beneficial as the plant retains some of the marbling, unlike in average aquarium where it would turn single colour. The plant is notorious for growing big, so we will see forward what will happen.









Note the 3 plantlets swaying in the current. It seems happy enough and I will be planting those little fellows in the future.


----------



## Fish on Fire

Wow, just wow . . . I would have made a different selection of fish though . . . but wow . . . lol.


----------



## cookiedeng

260gal =?L


----------



## Martin

Let the 'marble queen' grow above the waterlevel. The marbeling will appear in the emerse leaves. and look quite pretty to boot.

Have you considered Ech. 'rose' ? Beautiful leaves. really!


How are you planning to maintain the plants? pruning etc.?


----------



## Martin

260 x 3.8(approximately)= 988L


----------



## forddna

984.2L, but not sure why you're asking 260??

http://www.onlineconversion.com/


----------



## medicineman

I think he just found the link of my 260g on my signature and interested in the aquarium setup.

@Symbiot,
The marble queen is originated from my friend who have had enough of the plant as halfway emmersed form and give it away to me. The leaves have clear marbling before it was put sumbersed into the pond, now that they melted away, replaced by underwater leaves with less distinct marbling. I dont know if it ever be able to grow any leaf out of water for it is around 80cm deep.

Echinodorus "rose"? I have this echinodorus "pink" which I guess is entirely a different plant. Let me see if there is any available to look/buy at the local tropica dealership.

Maintenance is easy. I have a continous WC system running very slow, approximately 60ml per minute or 3.6 liter per hour (almost 0.947 gallon per hour) at the least of which any overflowing water is channeled back to the ground. Not much because of increased evaporation and some minute leaking from the falls.

I maintain the plants using simple method. Long pincers and long tongs, some with blade on tip to handle them without the need for me to go inside. Such routine must be done bit by bit everday, for a prolonged leaning and working at once with tools (which is not as easy to manouver) is stressful.
Heavier, mass maintenance would require me to jump in and take careful steps, preferably by the stones (or as I did once, added more stones to step on) not to disturb the substrate too much and cause a havoc. A quick half water drain via large draining pipe will further ease the job as I do not have to dive my face in when leaning. Refilling after I drain is a problem though, as it takes quite some time.

So here is another pic showing some plants :









Left : Echinodorus barthii x
Right : Echinodorus rubin
Front : Echinodorus horemanii (I think)
Some leaves from giant Crypt balansae and assorted Hygro by the background.


----------



## andy_j

WOW...what a fantastic project.

Any chance of seeing how the terrestrial plants have settled in when the camera is out next ?

Andy


----------



## medicineman

Full pond shot.

Most of the plants are starting to settle in, while others seems do not appreciate the condition when I think they should. I've had no luck with cryptocoryne crispatula of all sort though the giant balansae are not dead yet. Hoping that they will grow back later on.

Running for some time now, I can be sure of one thing. The pond is consuming quite a great deal of CO2 with 7-8 bps (can be read via double bubble counter). Already the meter dropped significantly...


----------



## Harsh

Amazing !!


----------



## forddna

Wow!! Looks awesome! I'm sorry about the plants giving you trouble. I know that's frustrating.


----------



## Gill

Looks spectacular MM, must be so relaxing to sit down in the evening and cabbage in front of that.


----------



## Architect1

wow Med I love the tank it turned into a vary beautiful tank. I love the pics that show the plants in it finally. Nice work, i hope to see fish in there soon.


----------



## Raul-7

Very natural, almost like a section of a stream right in your own house, with an underwater view on one side and a mud bank on the other. Fish must feel right at home in there. I like this tank a lot, great idea; even better accomplishment.


----------



## organic sideburns

this tank is amazing, i remember when MM first started this thread. 

love the new pics


----------



## BiscuitSlayer

Medicineman - That is a fantastic setup! I just read the thread from start to finish, and it has been quite a journey. There is only one thing about the setup that doesn't seem to fit the look:

That PVC pipe which I am assuming is the inflow for the filter or drain system. Have you considered building up a rock scape or something of that nature to "hide" it? 

I think the crew that you had do the work did a fantastic job with the rock walls. If you were trying to achieve a consistant volcanic look you did an excellent job. I could sit a chair next to your pond, crack open a 12 pack of beer, and sit there and look at that all day.

BTW, having dealt with frogs/herps I think you made the right decision not having those types of hassles. While it would definately be interesting to watch those types of animals it would be a royal PITA feeding them and maintaing them. Poison dart frogs would have been cool, but how could you possibly contain their food source?


----------



## medicineman

Yep, in fact this is where I like to hang around for some time after a long day. Sit around, feeding, gazing trough, watching fish or simply some child play on the water. It is easy to get your hands wet and it is just simply fun!

Anyway, just a simple update post with the title : GROWTH









The water is not so polished because there has been some problem with water source, though it is not bad enough to ruin the pond.

So far so good, the only problem is just some pesky BBA :icon_roll


----------



## ikuzo

overhead photo please


----------



## Tdon1md

Another masterpiece. I've sat for at least 4 hours reading and gazing and just admiring your work between the 3 threads you've done. Thanks for sharing all of your hard work with us. You truly have a lot to be proud of! I think my fav is the 260 on the balcony. That's where I'd spend my time unwinding. Don't you have constant breezes there? Sitting on the balcony, breeze blowing through softly, stress melting, deep tranquility,........ 

Anyway, very, very nice work!!!!
________
Buy Glass Pipes


----------



## octopus44

Incredible!

How is the emersed part of the project coming?


----------



## medicineman

Another update on the growth from last week.
Sorry for the low res-pics, keep forgetting to take out the SLR from the other house 

Here you can see forest of crypt wendtii green. These kind grow quite big. Growth has been strong ever since they were planted less than 2 months ago.









And here you can find Hygrophila agustifolia with flamboyant, green, long leaves that sways to the current. This plant has been growing strong as well, now reaching water surface.









A good news at last. I've won my battle against pesky BBA. They fast dissapearing and right now there are less than 10% and nearly gone.
A strange thing because I did not do anything special, just keep on taking after the setup like usual : micro bubble CO2 injection, fert dosing (Wonder-Gro liquid macro+, micro+ and tablet root+). 
No excel addition yet, which is a good sign that the setup is healing itself.


----------



## jinx©

Well it took me a pot of coffee and an hour to catch up on this thread, and all I can say is well done MM! 
Very beautiful and thank you for sharing the build and progression.

Now if I could have only spent the hour sipping coffee while sitting beside your pond...ahhh...lol


----------



## Fugu

.................... I honestly thought i was going to wet my pants! Pure commitment to the hobby!!!!!!!!! I cant beleive it! Is this in your own house? If I had that house, i would guard it with my lie! It must have cost millions to make! WOW!


----------



## MarkTheShark

Beautiful! Incredible!

Maybe a few birds to fly around indoors, a butterfly or two would look great too.

Any new photos?


----------



## medicineman

@jinx,
The garden is a nice house piece, and we did glad of the additional ambient lighting coming from the skylight.

@Fugu,
I never do service job doing setups. The garden is built within our house, right by the living room.

@MarkTheShark,
Heheh.. birds belongs to the cage (we happen to have some). Dont want any guano on the couch.

Update on the garden.

A setback was found around two months ago as water level keeps receding each day. A leak of around 20-30 gallon per day is obvious and fresh water is added daily to compensate the loss. I never intend to do continous water change, but what can I say that now I'm forced to do such. It is a bit wasteful and I prefer not to do it. But fixing and looking for the leak would mean the garden needs to be torn down, and I'm not ready to do such thing at such early stage. Next year perhaps, and only if the leak gets worse.

Growth has been fairly explosive well so far to the terrestrial as well as aquatic plant.
The pothos haired down with wild effect and plants grow bigger. Some branches started to climb up though most are keen to hang low.


----------



## fishscale

Uh. Errr. I...guh.

I think I just peed myself.


----------



## dantimdad

I have dreamed of such a system to combine my reef tanks into. Then I read about the other tanks you have! Wow!

Keep up the good work!

BTW, are you sure it's a leak and not evap? The waterfall could possibly cause that much.

dantimdad


----------



## medicineman

@fishscale,
Dont wet that pants in the winter yet 

@dantimdad,
Pretty sure it leaks. I have already did a series of testings by the help of a series of valves.
1. Turned the waterfall off.
2. Turned the tank return line off but waterfall on.
3. Turned the tank return line on but the waterfall off.
4. Turned the main pump off and seal the valves.

In the end I still get reduced water level at the main tank, but not the filter chambers. It must be a tiny crack, or perhaps a series of hairlines (which by experience sometimes gets self clogged, reducing the leak rate significantly).

A close up on the pond section.
Already some lotus formed aerial leaves. I havent got the urge to jump in and do trimming yet to those assorted hygros.


----------



## fish man 101

really, really impressive Medicinman! 

shame about the leak but i am sure you will get on top of it! the aquatic garden section looks great.


----------



## medicineman

Indeed the growth has taken over the pond section that now you can hardly notice the piping form the pic (although still can see them easy in real).

Close up on climbing pothos (philodendron scandens variety)










The growth has been rampant, occacional sprinkle of aquarium macro fertiliser seems to be helping a lot. That orchid has not flowered yet, need to learn how to induce flowering on them and get more to cheer up the still bald cliff.

This kind of plant can even go under water, but not as aquatic plant. You can see below that already a branch long enough reached water surface and start to grow along water line. More of these will be seen in the future for the plant will learn that the pond is nutritious.










Here you can find tiny hygro poliserma budding out of water. They appear not so good, perhaps due to lack of nutrition (no substrate) grown with just water and any dissolved fert. Or perhaps they remain that size because of humidity factor, any bigger and they may dry up.


----------



## medicineman

Some of the hygro I use.

Here you can see Hygro corymbosa, Hygro compacta and Hygro poliserma.
Combination of tall corymbosa and short compacta creates an illusion of bushy and full growth of one species, even though the two are different.










Initially I intended to use the poliserma for starter plant, keeping growth fast and algae minimum in a newly setup system. Now I'm getting a fond to it and refuse to throw it away :icon_roll


----------



## medicineman

More of the views




























Enjoy!


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

So cool, again so cool....


----------



## crazy loaches

Awesome as always :thumbsup: 

I could only hope to make something so nice eventually... and I've saved many of the pics since its a very nice setup - exactly what I have always whished to do with the rockwork and 1 or 2 veiwing sides. We need to see something in a pic or two for some size reference though!


----------



## zoombee

eye opening project...ur sunken garden looks like a part of our zoo :eek5: 

very massive


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Lets see some equipment pics Medicineman, we have to see this...


----------



## zergling

hey MM, do you have a pic of your sunken garden with you on it? :biggrin:


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Yeah what mask and snorkel do you use?? And do you use fins?


----------



## medicineman

Hahah...

Cmon folks, I wouldnt need such scuba gear to do this tank :redface: 
There are some pics showing the scale of the project from earlier on. 
You can stand in it without drowning, more like just a belly deep.

Cross my fingers that no fancy over the edge equipment are used in the setup. All are just bulk and basic stuff, supplemented by mother nature.

Though I must admit that I will be forced to jump in pretty quick. The weeds are growing too tall already, and to make worse the lotus decided it is time to explode. They just shoot out dozen of aerial leaves, utilising the nutrition given from root tabs and ample base fertiliser.

I havent done so much of my "homework" yet, which is a shame.

Lets look more at the terrestrial plants for now.

One of the Bromelia. Not so reddish anymore due to the swing in sun ray following season. It has not received as much and many sunlight as before. A plantlet is growing out of the mother plant. 










The ferns are growing strong as well. Leaves are long and wavy as shown at one of the variety here (I have no idea exactly of the species).


----------



## A Hill

Looks great Dedy!

What is your fish list still just the rummy noses, clown loaches, and such? 

You really do need to cut that pipe or hide it somehow it looks kinda wierd 

Ferts seem to be doing great in everyone's tanks over here as well. All sold out for now, maybe in a few months another order will happen!

-Andrew


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Wow Deddy, amazing! Do frogs try to move in ever? Or any other animal?


----------



## RTC 307

I cant wait to see how this progresses over time.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Medicineman, stunning. 

When I saw this, I thought that lime pothos _Epipremnum pinnatum_ _cv. ‘Aureum’_ might looks good here too, since your other philodendrons are growing so well, and it would compliment the bright greens in your tank. _Philodendron xanadu_ is gorgeous too and something to consider for this tropical paradise you've created.

Have you tried getting any mosses to grow on the concrete backdrop? I think you mentioned considering that in a previous post.


----------



## medicineman

@FrostyNYC,

Thanks for the suggestions.

I havent try any moss on the wall yet. But I got some beautiful algae growing on them, just right. Not at the tank, but at the waterworks path.

@Orlando,
Since this is located indoor and pretty sealed off from the outside world, there are so little animal can make it trough. So far I have only seen house gecko, some spiders and ants making part of the system their playing ground.


Some update

Sunlight back again at the right angel. And so the plants responded.
Here is the poliserma sunset forming nice hue









Growth on tiger lotus. No less than a dozen new aerial leaves alone appeared within just 2 weeks time. I may need to kill off some if they keep growing at such rate. Would not want them to choke neighbouring plants.









Latest nightime shot









It is getting even fuller and fuller over time :icon_roll


----------



## crazy loaches

I bet that looks even more spectacular in person at night all lit up amongst darkness roud:. Outstanding as always.


----------



## pdc2104

I'm sitting here reading every page of this thread in the freezing darkness of a northern winter, "oohing and ahhing" over your spectacular tank and surroundings. It made me so happy, yet envious, to see the progression.

What a thing of beauty!!


----------



## cleekdafish

wow thats just awesome!


----------



## froghair

Medicineman, I just sat here reading the entire sunken garden project and it's truly amazing! You're an inspiration!! Kudos roud:


----------



## medicineman

Finally I jumped in for a trimming session last month.

Target was assorted hygros, where they have grown to the surface even longer, bending and blocking light. The group also caused slight stagnant condition, slowing down water current and suceptible as dust filter. 

I also cut down 90% of the aerial lotus leaves before too late because the plants below started to suffer.

Sorry for the lack of pic published on this, I was stripped down to just undergarment :icon_redf 

Update on the leak

Since the leak is ever worrying every day as the water lost exceed 20 gallon per half day. It is necessary to refill twice a day to avoid water level being too low and damage the main pump.

The team worked on the project was summoned back to do a review and give their best bet to where the point of leak might be.

A suspect spot was pointed out, which is the overflow section from the pond into the filter box. 

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/IMG_0227.jpg

This overflow path was enlarged by one of the workers doing finishing job because the flow was not large enough to serve the system. Unknowing of the initial construction, he had chiseled out a section and uncovering a layer which is not waterproof, exposing partially of the brickwork. This potential problem was not recognised earlier on due to the similarity in colour and texture of brick to the finishing. 

Hence a fixwork is done. The main pump was pulled off and water level reduced by several inches. To compensate, a submersible pump serving as water current and a trickle DIY filter using a bucket was added.
A layer of waterproofing and additional cement cover applied to the wound, and hopefully after it dries up resulting in better rate of water loss. 

Likely there will be large loss still at least due to large waterfall system, but not as bad.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Sounds like you took it by the horns. Keep us updated with new pics as soon as you get them. Now I cant wait.


----------



## medicineman

It seems to be bullseye for now.

The leak is drastically reduced and indeed the chipping of layer is the main cause.

Next best thing I can publish for now is a simple, short, low resolution video using a phonecam to give you a live condition of the setup.

Here you can see central shots showing critters of the pond.

Enjoy! 

http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/?action=view&current=28022008010.flv

*If I have time, a good version using triple CCD cam will be made. Sorry, no high-res video anywhere near near future.


----------



## TheOtherGeoff

thats so awesome. i just dont really know what else i can say other then that about it


----------



## cah925

If that was at my house, I would get stuck for hours just watching.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

I cant stop looking at the flick, I would have to swim in that thing with a mask and snorkel. That is the coolest pond I have ever seen.


----------



## Aquamanx

:thumbsup: Looks Great!

I'm very envious of your pond!:icon_roll I LOVE IT!


----------



## ikuzo

your fish is so active, great video. what are those black sharks there?


----------



## unirdna

I've never seen Bala sharks so happy. What a creation, MM!!!!


----------



## medicineman

Thanks for the compliment everyone.

@orlando,
You bet I love to gaze it in the afternoon!

@ikuzo,
Those are local bala shark. Fish is getting endangered in the wild but commonly cultured in captivity. I decided to try them out since my setup is quite large and they are really easy to buy as well as to keep.

@unirdna,
They just need extended space I guess, other than clean and well oxygenated water (aquascape is just right for the job) to live well.


These suckers have grown more than twice of their original size ever since they were introduced several months ago. From 3.5 inches babies to 5-6 inches delinquents. It is not a surprise to find some torn leaves if they ever get too hungry, and expected as well from their huge mouths and big appetite. 

With such rate, I would not be surprised to find them reaching 10 inches in a year or two. I will never know if by then they will be plant trimmer. I always have fish only pond for a new home if that is the case.


----------



## htn86

What kind of filter you have running on that thing? This project has inspired me to work on my pond roud:


----------



## medicineman

@htn86,
The filtration system is very simple. Overflow with chambers. Drain pipes on the bottom of each chambers for easy cleaning. 
Take a look at the early pages for pics/diagram.


Anyway, here is another video showing more of the sunken garden pond area.

http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/?action=view&current=28022008009.flv

Enjoy!


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Dedy you have done a fantastic job with this Tank/Pond. I would sit and gaze at that thing for hours.


----------



## crazy loaches

Great like always  too bad you cant take higher quality though. And BTW, this is page 9 for me :wink: I get tired of having to click on pages so I changed the view to 50 threads per page.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Bump for Birdman the DIY filter man to find the thread- awesome tank!!!


----------



## Birdman

lauraleellbp said:


> Bump for Birdman the DIY filter man to find the thread- awesome tank!!!


Your not kidding there.


----------



## medicineman

Glad that you guys find the thread interesting  


Some time later and after a little bit of trimming

Overall look










I called in for a welder-craftsman to help me fix the light hanger, because a single MH light hanged at such so far does not light up the tank well up to the edges, too much concentrated at the center. Now it is raised to around 4-5 feet or so from water surface, giving a more even light coverage. Result could be seen just a week away, plants at the edges responded positively.

It has been some time since the garden is set. Now the pothos has grown vines, dangling the backdrop into the water. Some have actually reached the waterworks, submerged and climbed back up the waterfall.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Dedy, this photo is my new favorite pic. Please do us all a favor and keep them coming. Awesome


----------



## unirdna

I still can't believe you have this in your house. This thread will never get old.


----------



## dewalltheway

Just absolutely STUNNING!:eek5: Speechless. One of the 7 Wonders of the Aquascaping World. What the other 6 are, don't know, but that would be a good photo competition to have is to vote on 7 wonders. This one would be #1 for me!


----------



## medicineman

Thanks for the kind words.

Perhaps it is too much to have something of this kind and scale built integrated within the inside of a house, right by the living room.
It could have been a disaster of heavy maintenance routines outside of my existing tanks, but luckily so far the garden has been acting as predicted. 

Pardon me for the lack of fish photos. It is not as easy as taking one in a normal tank (as I did many times in my tanks).
Instead, have some more garden pics. 
Cant provide better pics as well, not before getting myself a good spend on close f2.8 nikkor lens :icon_redf 



















Maybe some of you may wonder, why with all that reddish hue from the lighting unit.
Well, my old osram bulb had given up the ghost some months ago. Much prematurely that is. Too bad, because I kind of like the white-greenish spectrum it emits. It is hard to find equal replacement around here. 
Better than waiting for a long time and let my plants suffer, I just quickly swap in a common replacement, which is rather yellow spectrum. Some may not like it, but it works just great!


----------



## FelixAvery

cooooolest thin ever i found my new desktop picture
u rule this should win competitions


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Dedy, thanks for my new wall paper...


----------



## lymabean

looks AMAZING. Very jelous right now. WHat are you going to put in there?


----------



## medicineman

@lymabean,
There are already many fish in the pond. Around 150 rummy nose tetra, a dozen or so algae eater, a pack of roseline puntius, a small shoal of bala shark, couple of dozens of assorted local rasboras, etc. Not so much fish for such setup of the size.
I need to keep the bio load reasonably low for maintenance reason.



More of the top view shot


----------



## Raimeiken

Holy crap that is one nice tank! I love the terrestrial plants you put too. Are you planning on adding more plants on the wall?


----------



## SeaSerpant

Just went through your whole thread. how much did you spend on that build? and how much do you spend each month on it? (electrical and stuff)


----------



## deleted_user_16

Rule #1 about DIYing, do not keep track of time
Rule #2 about DIYing, do not keep track of how much you spend


----------



## mario_r

Wah!! its really super cool!! i mean its 1/2 pond and 1/2 aquarium!! where do you get all of this idea?!?!?! what kind of movie do you watch??=p


----------



## Landon

Ive said this before (during the build phase) and Ill say it agian, _This set up is truely inspiring!_

Id like to see some pics form a few feet back, where we can take in the whole garden all at once.

Have you given any more thought to animals for the garden wall? I still think a large chameleon would be right at home amongst those vines.


----------



## OhNo123

What the!? That is amazing..! Where did you get the idea?


----------



## srud

Those last few pictures left me, quite simply, speachless. It that were in my house, I would sit right there and watch it, all day long. Beautiful!


----------



## Raimeiken

you should charge a fee for the public to see this


----------



## stinxo

That is the most amazing thing ever! Thank you so much for documenting it all and sharing it with us.

On a side note, I was just thinking that if the outer corner of the tank was glass on glass, it would give a freaking amazing unblocked perspective view as if the pond was just floating in air


----------



## MikeS

:eek5: Holy %[email protected]*!!!!!!! That is amazing. I just spent all morning reading this thread. That is just awesome!!! roud:


----------



## Gill

Hey MM,

Looks amazing. 
You inspired me to do something Similar.
Just Got a 5*3*2 and hoppe to emulate anything near this.


----------



## NstyN8

Very Impressive!
I haven't seen many ponds with a good aquascape; such as this.
So what are you using for media in your filter...50 lbs of ceramic rings and 100 lbs of lava rock?

Have you thought of adding some sort of moss to that wall?


----------



## bubbless

man you must be rich! but its worth it because this is one heck of an AWESOMEEEEEEEEEEE TANK! if i ever get rich, this is what im doing first!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: roud:


----------



## medicineman

Pardon me for the lack of updates.

@bubbles,
It does cost some money, but what it needs most is caring hand. 
If only I'm more resourceful in technology (other than financial side), would have built it more maintenance free.

@nstyn8,
I put by order bioballs, sponge and filter floss.

@gill,
I wish you successful and looking towards your running project!


Now lets get down to business again!

Latest full overall pic










It has been some time and things have changed. One thing missing is sunlight. As the season change, so does the angle of which sunlight hits (yes, this does happen as well on tropical Indonesia). No more straight sunlight hitting the pond section directly for the last several months. It does bring some harm to plants (esp the ones demanding stronger light), problems related to lacking of light. 

My artificial lighting system does help and prevent things from crashing completely, though it can never replace the dimming, natural light. 
How I wish I have bought something stronger to light up this tank at the times like now :icon_roll 

On the overall, they look great and the system is running stable. I managed to keep it running relatively free of algae (frankly, I have a bit of stubborn BBA, but they are much under control and hard to spot).

On the canopy section, a part of the photos hanging down are going a little bit bald. I suspect it needs a major supplement/overhaul at the pot substrate. Or perhaps it just abandon the more poorly nourished area and prefer to grow more near the nutrient stable water edge (look at how they colonize waterfall and the pond edges).


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Still have this on my screen saver! Thanks Dedy....


----------



## sea-horsea

show some underwater pics!!!


----------



## medicineman

Underwater pics will come  

It is feeding time.
Some of the fish begging for food










A quick count of fauna up to date:
- 4 Angels
- 4 Bala shark
- 4 Puntius denisonii
- 100s of Rummy nose tetra
- 2 Puntius johorensis
- 3 Clown loach
- 2 SAE
- 5 CAE
- several wild rasboras (unidentified sp)
- A dozen of nerite snails
- A runaway red platy (I swear it was a baby fish hitchhiker) 


It has been sometime since some of the fish were introduced into the setup and they have grown quite much. I'm giving the credit to ample living space and plenty of circulation.










What's surprising is how fast can bala shark grow in just less than a year, considering they started as much smaller fish, even smaller than a big SAE. For size comparison : Full sized SAE, young adult Puntius, adult platy and full sized rummy nose. You can see how dwarfed the others become when coming face to face. Used to have 10 of them, 2 jumped out and die (such accident is expected to happen when you have such uncovered setup filled with good jumpers), 4 was successfully caught and re-homed to a koi pond.


----------



## rekles75

This is truely amazing. A complete work of art. 

It looks like it should have some smoke coming out of it, like something from the movies. I'm sleepy dont pay me no attention.


----------



## mysticalnet

Holy Cow!! This is crazy beautiful!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## medicineman

More of the underwater views... Enjoy!



















Some of the echinodorus :

Echinodorus barthii, acquired as plantlet








This is a huge species of echinodorus, as shown here. The leaves alone are bigger than your palms.

It is somewhat damaged (and several other plants the same) by the activity of this fish, said to be striped barb from Sumatera. I got this one from a friend who swear he caught it from a stream while he was back at his hometown at Jambi, Sumatera.









Echinodorus rubin, also acquired as emmersed plantlet. Brought this one as a gift from a friend in Singapore.








Yet another echinodorus giant growing dozens of leaves. It could have grown better under stronger lighting.

Echinodorus marble queen. I started off with a motherplant. Soon it pops 2 plantlets and here they are now.









The setup pretty much fill itself up without me adding more plants (see how bare it was initially).


----------



## @[email protected]

wow. thats all: "wow" and a little bit of *drool*.

the plants are so healthy, and the whole tank looks like it should be at a public aquarium. especially with all those giant schools of thriving fish. i wouldnt be at all suprised if they spawned.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Ive never asked this before or maybe somebody already has, but how do you go about maintaining that pond/tank? How do you trim and change water Dedy? I need to know these things as Im planning something similar out at the farm.


----------



## cah925

Again I am in awe of this wonderful creation. Congrats on everything you have accomplished with this tank.


----------



## plantoon

LUAR BIASA!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: ini salah satu yang terbaik di indonesia bahkan di dunia:thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

translate:
Wonder-Full+ this is among the best in Indonesia perhaps in the World:thumbsup: :thumbsup: no dobt about it


----------



## medicineman

@plantoon,
Ah, a fellow Indonesian aquarist!

Hope my work can inspire, interest, encourage people to make aquascape. 

@orlando,
I do my trimming the old school, normal way. Just strip off and jump in :icon_redf 
Carefully placing feet at the areas not planted, avoiding damages as much as possible. The width and depth require such way.

As about doing WC. There is a control overflow drain plumbing which will keep the water level should it rise (sometimes you just forgot that you are filling a tank, especially when the tank is this big - it takes quite some time to WC and even just a simple top up). 
There is also a huge drain pipe for quick water removal (that huge, ugly white pipe thing I forgot to hack off, sticking by the setup bottom). A full open to the valve could empty 75% of the tank volume within minutes.

Usually what I do is set a timer and slowly bleed new water and let the balance overflow from the control drain pipe. This is a more gentle but slow way of doing WC, even at large percentage. Keeping the water clear is important, esp when you have a setup with such width.


----------



## medicineman

Final set of pictures for this session :

From the top view.


















Considerably much fuller than the intial set-up.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Oh to have room for all those beautiful swords... *sigh*


----------



## Guest

medicineman simply amazing is all I can say. I guess so much for my 55 gallon :icon_cry: You took it to a whole new level congrats and best of luck with everything.


----------



## medicineman

Thanks for stopping by and it is good that people can enjoy it with me, even though just merely trough pics.

The setup itself is not without problems and flaws, which I intend to fix.

First it is the lighting.
As mentioned before, sunlight did not hit the pond area directly anymore, even to this month. However from experience, it should be back very soon, as it has been last year.
A measly 400W MH unit is just barely enough. Additional fixture, or perhaps better still, a more powerful one sure can give a good boost. Alternatively, I can start changing plants by the type, though I still prefer the way things grow in better lighting.

Second is the leak. 
Yes, it does leak. The worst part has returned :icon_roll 
I just have to top it up frequently for now. At least until next time to tear up comes.











Anyway, here is an echinodorus "kleiner bar" plantlet, a gift from a very satistied friend (he's been using wonder-gro aquascaping fertilizer line as I suggested and ended up with never stopping supply of K-bar plantlet from his tank). A new plant to me, and cross my fingers not to kill it. I doubt it can form the nice hue, but hopefully gets big. 

Thanks mate!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I love these swords. (My GBRs do too... but for different reasons LOL) And my 'kleiner bar' LOVES your WonderGro tabs! I've had the sword for I think all of 2 months and it's already about to flower for me a 2nd time!



















And here we go again...


----------



## medicineman

Great to see that it worked well for you Laura. Congratulations.
Those are beautiful kleiner bar plantlets, looks solid and massive too.


----------



## zachxbass

looks great MM... i actually saw your thread on dendroboard several months ago. Your project has been one of the major factors in me starting planted aquariums.... Thanks for the inspiration!


----------



## vance71975

WOW this is just totally AWESOME. I only have one question, to me the Proportion seems a bit off, The Cliff/water fall is HUGH and it makes the pond at the bottom seem small. I know 700g is far from small but just looking at the pics it seems dwarfed by the cliff. Is this done on purpose? Was the cliff suppose to be more of the focal point than the pond itself? If this had been me i think i would have doubled or tripled the size of the pond to balance it out. But still looks totally awesome!


----------



## medicineman

@zachxbass,
It is good to hear that you are motivated. Hope you enjoy the hobby!

@vance71975,
Cant help it :icon_lol:
What is done is done, could have made it in more proportion. In fact I have many things to fix/adjust in the first place if I'm allowed to turn back time :biggrin:


Anyway, 


Here comes the sun... didudidum....

As the season passed by and month switches,
So does the sun is back to shine!

Earth orbit has switched to the sunny side!
For the next 4-5 months it is going to be more sunshine directly on to the garden. I expect some changes in growth, and probably but hopefully not, algae as well.

A shot for you all









I'm going have to jump in again for trimming very soon if it goes like this :biggrin:


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Wow!!! It keeps getting better every time!!


----------



## @[email protected]

i love that tank. i want one like that, or bigger. its amazing. and the walls with the plants really make it looks so natural.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Thats not a tank! Its an Indoor pond..


----------



## octopus44

In awe as always!


----------



## @[email protected]

well, it has glass sides, wouldnt a true pond only be visible from above?


----------



## medicineman

...It's a tank!
...It's a pond!
...It's a half cut paludarium!
...It's an indoor garden!

....It is my sunken garden! :icon_lol:

I'm too greedy to have just one kind :hihi:

Geez, those bala shark sure are getting very big, they dwarf my denisonii.


----------



## yikesjason

I noticed that big bala in your last picture. 
With some of the fish getting so big, how are your smaller fish doing? I seem to remember that you had a lot of tetras in there.


----------



## windfish

This setup is amazing. I'm in awe!


----------



## MikeP_123

HOLY FRIK!!!!!! GOOD CRAZY A$$ JOB!!!! I was reading from the beginning and decided to take a sneak peak at the final product and !!!!!:eek5::eek5::eek5:!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:!!!!! OMG !!!!! 

Im sooo proud! :icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::redface::redface::redface::redface::redface::redface:

I knew Balas would be a great Choice!!! It looks magnificent! It is sooo lush I couldn't even tell where the land ended and the water began!

Just thought i'd say a few fish I thought would look great. 

Clown Loach
Tiger Barbs ~ big school shouldn't be nippy
Those cool fish that chill at the top and kinda look like lion fish (IDK the name)
Red Tail Shark


I'm Your BIGGEST FAN!!!


----------



## medicineman

@yikesjason,
They are rummy nose tetra. I start around 150 of them and now there are at least, judging from the swarm, a hundred or so. Based on observation and the remaining number, I would say these small tetra are not in any way disturbed of hunted down by the denisoniis or much bigger balas.

@windfish,
It is good that you enjoyed, even from pictures.

@MikeP_123,
He he.... no peeking, dont spoil the fun yet 
Enjoy it, read by the steps.

Putting bala inside may be a mix of good and bad decision. And that goes the same to some of the fish I have inside. Some of them are just simply plant nippers. Dont feed them enough and they'll nip more :icon_roll

I have clown loach inside, 4 of them. They would usually disappear from view, spotted at times though, somewhere hanging around within the jungle of plants.


----------



## mujacko2002

Mabuhay!

WHOA!! that is one freaky A-W-E-S-O-M-E TANK. it kinda hybrid for me its a mix between an NAS, paludarium/vivarium and dutch type of setup. And the plantssssssss are just amazing, they're all so healthy. tillandsias are good additions too. this is just simply amazing and beautiful. 

Just joking around, i was wondering how many DIY-CO2 bottles will it take to supply a tank like that...hahahahahahahahha. I guess i'll be replacing bottles every other day...hahahaha

Excellent work! 

Godbless


----------



## medicineman

@mujacko2002,
Ha ha ha... DIY CO2... you've got to be kidding. May want to consider industrial CO2 cylinder when you tank is already over 700g. A typical 18lbs system may be used up in just several months (versus almost a year in a 4-5 footer)


Anyway, I have not did any major layout again but will do some light work on the setup pretty soon. Backdrop is filling out nicely with some of the philodendron scandens forming huge leaves and pillow of moss formed at several spots. 

Y'all have to wait for the updates :icon_roll


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Dedy,

Does everybody in your country build massive huge mondo tank/ponds? I keep thinking how cool it must be to go to somebody's house and see such massive tank/pond on a grand scale

Orlando


----------



## Haagenize

hjjhgefhgikjlwekbhtiko,jlfhgfjhkhytrfvtb nm,nmiknvxc

sorry i had to wipe the drool off my keyboard


----------



## CL

Haagenize said:


> hjjhgefhgikjlwekbhtiko,jlfhgfjhkhytrfvtb nm,nmiknvxc
> 
> sorry i had to wipe the drool off my keyboard


:hihi:
Nice 'sunken garden' medicine man


----------



## @[email protected]

this has already been discussed:
its not a pond.


----------



## NATURE AQUARIUM

All I have to say, is when can I come fishing / swimming? LOL................
I love it, I wish I had a place & money to do a what you have done!!!


----------



## Tex Gal

What a wonderful adventure going through your pages once again. An incredible task. So well executed! I can't imagine this in a private setting!


----------



## medicineman

Just some moss/lichens growing at part of the backdrop.










Could have many more if only a constant misting system is used.

@Orlando,
Nope. Such is still quite rare around here. 

Koi ponds, however (with artificial garden style walls) are more common to be found. But still such is still uncommon, as a good one cost a fortune and quite some space (proper one usually exceeding 3000g) to build on.


----------



## Wingsdlc

> Could have many more if only a constant misting system is used.


 Might have been a really good idea install the misters right into the wall.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Well you guys sure know what your doing when it comes to these huge tank/ponds


----------



## @[email protected]

medicineman said:


> Just some moss/lichens growing at part of the backdrop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could have many more if only a constant misting system is used.
> 
> @Orlando,
> Nope. Such is still quite rare around here.
> 
> Koi ponds, however (with artificial garden style walls) are more common to be found. But still such is still uncommon, as a good one cost a fortune and quite some space (proper one usually exceeding 3000g) to build on.


im guessing a manually spritz bottle wont work?
lol

it looks nice though. gives a very natural look.


----------



## medicineman

@@[email protected],
That is what I have pathetically and almost meaninglessly tried.
Just too tiring and the effect is not enough when using manual spritz bottle. I have this garden 2 gallons hand-pump mister. Just not frequent enough, too troublesome.

But no to the fine mist ones. Enough humidity in the house already.

@Orlando,
Well, we learn from you folks and give it lots of guts to start one 

Anyway, more update

The view from above on the density of terrestrial plants (mister/sprinkler with fertilizer would boost this even more).


----------



## yikesjason

I would imagine that humidity would be an issue will that system just the way it is. A fine mist system might make the house feel like a steam room. 

What about an artificial rain system? That might be interesting. Set something up on a timer so you have a light rain shower in the morning. It could be kind of pleasant to hear and see.


----------



## medicineman

Yup, a coarse mist/sprinkler on very short timer would be great.
Maybe a future project, using dark colored small line to help camouflage.

I like the freshness whenever after they are watered, glittering and dripping with dew.

Full view. The overall growth is just nice.










Note how some of the climbing vines morphed into giant form.


----------



## dewalltheway

That is just incredible! WOW! I would park myself there all day and wouldn't get anything done. That is just inspirational! You have done an amazing job with the placement of the plants and how it all flows together. You have an amazing talent! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## erinrobinjade

Though I didn't read all 400 plus pages of posts I did look at all you photos (passing some on Via email to my dad so he can drool too) I have never EVER in all my years (which isn't much but hey) have I ever seen something that made me drool so badly. I have spent the last 30 mins with my mouth wide open drooling! I day dreamed about a 200 gal planted tank in my wall but You! You good sir have given me a dream! I know it'll be a dream that is 20 years or so away but none the less a dream that I will one day make come true! I bow to you! And thank you for showing off your amazing tank!
Erin


----------



## FelixAvery

this is my favorite thread in the whole forum!
looks amazing as always i sooo want one in my house!
do the fish not get any hassle from birds?


----------



## medicineman

Thanks for dropping in.

Again, it is good to hear that the setup could be enjoyed even though from pictures afar.

@FelixAvery,
Well, the setup is built inside of the house, protected from outside elements (with exception to filtered sunlight).
So there is no birds to pester the fish inside.


Making a setup is one thing. Having something built permanently as part of the house is another thing.

Short story update :
I've had enough of the old fish stock for they have always bothered the plants too much. From nibbled or pulled off leaves to unplanting smaller plants.

So reluctantly I'm forced to evict some of the most possible culprits :
- Bala shark : guilty for creating bottom mess and probable of plant nibbling behaviour (even towards slow growing and thick-leaved assorted echinodorus). They blow and sucks in gravel for food and making the tank murky twice a day (right away after feeding time, it does not matter if there is no food sinks down).
- Puntius denisonii : guilty for unplanting small plants and possible plant nibbling.
- Puntius johorensis : confirmed on act plant nibbler
- Some other fish, and left with angelfish, algae eater, CAE, corydoras in the tank.

So the list after I use fishing net (yes, cut, long fishing net as normal aquarium net or simple fish trap will not do) and create a mess out of the tank, I'm feeling quite glad. 
The extreme measure result in improvements right away. Now I see much less leaves floats around and no more plantlets getting carried away. The water is also relatively much clearer due to less bio load and lack of bottom disturbance.

As replacement, I ordered some natural colored discus from a local discus breeder to match the wildness of tank. To my surprise, two of the discus (size 3.5-4") immediately formed a pair within two weeks of being introduced in the tank and they laid eggs on one of the giant echinodorus leaf. They refuse to gather during feeding time as usual and darken in colour, became aggressive towards trespasser. 
Too bad my water seems to hard for the egg to form/hatch properly. Four days later they seems to abandon the nest (no more eggs observed) and come out to eagerly eat. I'm not totally clear if the egg does not hatch and eventually being eaten by the parents or they simply hatch and hide. I'm not too accustomed towards discus breeding behavior.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Congrats on the discus spawn and on figuring out which of your fish were the "nibblers"!

I think if you just leave them alone you're likely to end up with fry at some point- it's pretty common for them to have several initial failed attempts while they "figure things out."

Can't wait to see pics of the new discus!


----------



## small-fish

amazing tank


----------



## medicineman

@laura,
In fact, these discus do lay eggs more often than I think.
Just several days away ever since they are back to beg for bloodworm, the couple kind of disappear again behind the forest of echinodorus leaves. Well, kind of, as one of the parent would still come out to be hand-fed. Nursering couple still needs to eat anyhow.



I managed to take decent shot of the juvenille discus :











Lately I found a bulb just like my old, burnt one.
I decided of getting rather bored by the existing orange bulb and take the greenish-white bulb home. The effect is just like before : white with strong tint of green and blue. A matter of personal preference, people may like or dislike the change. But I assure you my plants appreciate both.

Here is a full front shot, taken in late evening










To the back center part of the tank (fills up space to the right of green limnophila aquatica until left of the broad leaved echinodorus marble queen), not well seen due to dimmer lighting and dark leaves colour is my giant echinodorus rubin.
This species indeed is not a joke as it reached massive full size of 50+ leaves, almost the size of a small racket each.


----------



## Northern_Wind

:eek5: Wow. That is stunning.


----------



## legomaniac89

.............

This is me right now --> :eek5:

Truly, absolutely, incredibly amazing. Awesome job.


----------



## boltp777

i cant imagine actually having this. this is a masterpiece and should like be open to the public $$$


----------



## Coral Keeper

WOW!! AMAZING tank!!:eek5::eek5:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Those are gorgeous discus! I think they're a really lovely choice for your tank- they show off in there very nicely, and I'm sure they're in Heaven! 

How large are those fry, now? (It's hard to tell from the pic)


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

this tank is crazy.. I had to pick my jaw up off of the floor


----------



## medicineman

@laura,
I have not spot any fry yet. But the fish does still nurse the eggs yesterday or so.

@boltp777,
Our public aquarium display should try harder. Not only featuring fish, but display them as in true or enhanced habitat.
I agree that they should make something like this 
Kiddos and adult would love it.

Here is a pic from side










You can spot one of the non breeding, brown/orange based discus


----------



## yikesjason

Amazing discus. You just can't do anything without doing the best. I also really like the light color. I also prefer the blue/green light over the yellow/red light.


----------



## boltp777

yeah i mean like thats what i hate about public aquariums i love saltwater but i love planted tanks even more so i think they should display fish in their natural habitat like you said it makes it much better when i went to the aquarium thats why i was disappointed not one planted tank! now what is your dosing regiment?


----------



## medicineman

@bolt,
They clearly needs someone out from the crowd such as this forum. Consultation and tutorials. It cant be much more expensive or difficult having 3 or 4 of such setups in a public aquarium center.

Anyway, fert regime wise, I do daily dose very lightly of liquid fertilizer (12-15 pumps of macro+ and 8-10 pumps of micro+) and jab in root tabs every 3 months or so.


----------



## timleete

strait up probly the best tank/pond iv ever seen 

just wondering what dimentions it it.


----------



## medicineman

I forgot the exact measurement myself, but you will probably can find it at the front pages.

Here are more of the discus shot I managed to get :

Not all of the blue-green discus formed good colouring. Here is an example of how the younger one at the right still retains quite a lot of the stress bar and of less colouring









The other one with formed colour, but more obvious stress bar









One of the lone, natural colour discus









The couple









My greedy and tamed anglefish (yes, you can stroke and hand-feed it)


----------



## Starálfur

WOW that angel!! I love it, where did you find it? I'd love to have a half black/gold one like that...


----------



## SeaSerpant

Just a question. How do you hand feed your fish? Do you put blood worms inbetween your fingers or something? 
btw.... AWESOME TANK!!!!


----------



## medicineman

@Starálfur,
I got these fish from a local fish store arcade (around this part of the world, it is quite common for fish stores to open to each other in one area, so you can visit from one store to another just a doorstep away).
Happens to come fresh from the breeder. There used to be 4 of them, but 2 died due to some freaky accident when their size were much smaller. Stuck at the tank prefilter and unable to get free.

@SeaSerpant,
They become quite tamed and I can hold frozen blood worm while they approach and peck it off. I can even stroke them with no problem.
For convenience reason, I feed only frozen, sterilized bloodworm, available widely and cheaply at most LFS.


----------



## charles101

a truly amazing tank,am speechless,you really have done a superb job.it is a credit to you.i bet its lovely spending time down there,in fact i dont think i would leave it alone
a huge accomplishment-well done


----------



## styxx

I tell you Medicineman, I remember back in 2007 or was it 2008 when you had to get a refrigerator man to come over to help fix your chiller (lol) and now look at you with this tank...it has turned out pretty well...I haven't been very active on TPT but I'm going to start another 50G tank soon and see where that goes. It's great to see you're still on here helping everyone one out!


----------



## malaybiswas

you got a piece of art here. simple amazing. can you get a closeup of the discus eggs?


----------



## bigpow

Orlando, you'd be surprised to know that a lot of Indonesians have ridiculously large aquarium.

Biggest aquarium I've seen in my entire life there wasn't at the zoo or public aquarium - it was at my buddy's house. He has one big room for reef aquarium, 2 super thick glass wall sides. Natural sun lighting from above.  

I can't even imagine if one were to start such project here in the States... 


Fish and plants are dirt cheap. Everytime I went back, I always wished I could bring some fish/plants back into the States. Just try a Botia Sidimunthi for $2-3 each, compare that price with the price we pay here. Prices are easily 10-20x cheaper. Although, I strongly believe that the low price of fish/plants actually do them more harm since the keepers don't really cherish them as much as we do here. 

Fish are treated almost like disposable items for hobbyist there (they simply toss them out once they're done/bored with).


Labor is also dirt cheap there, every household has at least one helper/maid that live and work 24/7/365 (cost maybe $75/mo today). 

The cool part is as an owner, you usually just need to lift a finger, point to what you want to get done, and the maid/helper will do it for you. 

The political term for these live-in maid sometimes are: helper, assistant, associate, baby sitter, etc - but in reality, they're more like the sugar plantation workers of the American past. It's not entirely bad though, since it's mostly mutual relationship.


I grew up there and I used to be spoiled too until I came here. I was silver spoon-fed all the way through high-school! 

Now I'm like: no thanks, I will wear my own socks. Or no, I will wash my own dishes. 
And No thanks, I will clean and trim my own planted tank. It's my tank afterall, not my maid's.


----------



## Chrisinator

I call dibs to sleep right next to the tank in your housee!! My favoriye tank.


----------



## medicineman

@bigpow,
Low cost labor, cheap fish and plant supply only comes from the fact that the overall living cost here is low compared to developed countries (not to mention to compare it with top rich countries like USA), not to mention population also contribute a great factor.

If things could be produced/captured locally, it would cost a lot cheaper.
Try that with good imported aquarium equipments, imported exotic fish and plants. Easily a month worth of some clerk salary.

Nowadays maid service is getting less and less of "sugar plantation" scheme. 
Live-in workers are treated better (at least within our household) and slave-like abuse is getting rare. House owners works too much outside that sometimes the whole house is more like maid's home and not the master's house. 
Safety issue is also a sensitive matter nowadays and some have opted for less or no maid at all in the household.
The colonial heritage days is numbered!

I will only do the maintenance, setup, etc by myself and this rule is very strict. That is why sometimes I feel too occupied with my tanks, and this limits the number of tanks I can keep. Building this kind of tank as permanent part of the house is not for everyone. It cost a fortune to most locals, at it is too much to handle (unless you are seasoned/dedicated).
Of course there are times when help is a lot needed and I'm glad extra hands are easy to come by.

@charles101,
Thanks for the compliments.

@Chrisinator,
Dont catch cold :hihi:

@malaybiswas,
It is very difficult to get a glimpse of the eggs clutch. 
Though as I write down, the pair happens to guard eggs again. I doubt they will hatch properly due to the harder water I use (though some reported that the eggs could hatch, but poorly in harder water).


Update time!

It has been some time and one of the huge echi started to throw plantlets (I think it is red special or something)









8 small seedlings in all, quite many I'd say. I have planted some of the bigger ones now, allowing the smaller siblings to have a better chance to gain mass via "umbilical" flower stem.

Morphed photos. Note the split leaves. 
It is amazing when you let plants grow to its potential.


----------



## dewalltheway

If my family ever comes to Jakarta, can I stay at your house? Your plants are beautiful! Do you have an updated full shot to share? I love seeing your updated photos. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## skratikans

what are your wc like?


----------



## @[email protected]

can we please get an FTS?


----------



## rbarn

I really need to win the lottery so I can have this too ...........


Nice !!!!


----------



## kyle3

another vote for a new FTS and more underwater pics. your tank makes me drool 
thanks for sharing!
cheers-K


----------



## medicineman

Updated whole shot photo will follow later on.

WC wise, daily overflow of around 10-15g or so is added. The water gets mixed with the rest and any excess will get self drained.

Speaking of echinodorus, here is an oversized echinodorus uruguayensis I took out of my tank. This one will find a better, more spacious home in the pond.
The plant may grow even bigger, with aerial leaves under correct conditions.


----------



## timme278

OMG its huge.... (the plant that is lol)

full tank shot?

i love this thread, its my favourite on this entire site


----------



## kyle3

impressive! thanks for keeping us in the know!

cheers-K


----------



## H82LOS3

I LOVE ur tank!! 

Oh yea im from jakarta, indonesia too. Apa kabar?
I havent gone back to indo for 10 yrs, now im in college doing biology major. So anything new at Jakarta?

I miss indo, especially spicy masakan padang hahaha


----------



## blair

Wow! This is stunning! Awesome job roud:


----------



## bigpow

*Ot*



medicineman said:


> @bigpow,
> The colonial heritage days is numbered!


That's too bad. Everyone who used to live there in the old days would argue that the old days were, at least, 100x better (even the maids!). I was just looking at old Dutch map and photos of early Surabaya, and quite a difference with the state of things today. It's like looking at a nice Iwagumi style tank, that over time, has turned into clown-puke blue & orange gravel tank with red plastic plants.

[/nostalgic mode off]


----------



## medicineman

Here is a fuller shot as requested...


----------



## brion0

You're tank is so bad azz. As a personal goal in my life I want to make a tank better than yours. Cheers to you.


----------



## kyle3

stunning!!!!!!!!!!

cheers-K


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

Wow, very beautiful growth!


----------



## lilhelper

Absolutely Beautiful!


----------



## @[email protected]

i agree your tank is amazing. your fish must spawn all the time in such a natural setup (with lunar cycles and seasonal photointesity and photoperiods).

btw, did you get any blooms? i think that would look awesome, a lily flower on the surface of that tank.


----------



## medicineman

Thanks for the compliments.

So far, the only bloom I witnessed are of echinodorus and saggitaria.
This pond-tank after all is a bit restricted on natural sunlight (which I found is best to induce flowering). Not so easy to beat mother nature I guess.

Right now the setup is under a major maintenance.
Abnormal water loss is the cause. I've had enough with re-topping the setup each morning (and sometimes I had to do it at night to prevent the main pump from chugging too much of damaging air). It could be somewhere over 10 gallon water lost over a day period.
I found out that the filter box is where it leaks the most. There was this several hours blackout and water level in the filter dropped down, even after all excess overflow is drained automatically.

And so emergency DIY filter is set up and additional small powerheads installed while water level is lowered. Work on the filter box in undergoing, all material taken out, chamber torn down and all surface chipped out.
The leak is somewhere and a good, thorough chipping is necessary.

Adjustments will be made such as mending the source of leak, enlarging filter capacity, raising stationary water level and rerouting water way passing the chambers.


----------



## lauraleellbp

How are the discus doing?


----------



## yikesjason

I remember you have had leaks before. What do you have in place so that a leak doesn't erode or rot your subfloor?


----------



## giraffe

Wow sounds like a alot of work.


----------



## kyle3

good luck with your repairs!

cheers-k


----------



## medicineman

@laura,
Thanks for asking.
My discus are fine. The bigger ones would lay eggs every month or two. However my medium-hard water never allows the cluster to hatch into fry.
It is such a common sight, and the pair turns dark in coloration everytime they mate.

@yikesjason,
Any leak will seep down thru the ground and into the water table. The house floor itself is safe from any permanent spill. 
The base of the pond may have simple foundation and is poured with concrete, but below that and surrounds it are not. There is also a rather big drain next to the system, allowing channeling of excess water.

@kyle3,
Quite some works it was. But it all just worth the wait, expense and sacrifice.


Now that the filter is repaired.
It has improved design. Better self drain. Increased filter capacity. Elevated water level. Rerouted filtration chambers.










This might not look or sound much. But believe it does to some extent.
Increased filter capacity is good. 
Better (and secured) self drain allows more excess water to overflow when passive water change is done - and the plumbing is also clog proof due to easily cleaned, coarse pre-filter mesh. 
Rerouted chambers allows for better water distribution and gives the filter more spare water - good thing when no one will/willing to be topping up for a long time.
Elevated water level means now the filter is almost at the same level of the pond, and this means less waterfall effect. Leads to reduced CO2 loss.

Elevated water level at the filter (and also redesigned overflow path) means the working water level at the pond is elevated as well. You got to love this, and especially when the pond is filled to the brim of self drain lips, the pond almost appear it has no glass and that body of water afloat.










Check out the inset for a close look. Milimeter away from overflowing. But it never will, as any excess liquid than this level will be self-drained.









Lack of flow, sligtly lack of light (the pond is closed using wooden boards whenever the filter is being worked) and underfiltered for some time does take a toll. Though not bad I'd say.









To compliment the new filter, I also did some rejuvenation on the backdrop. Some of the spots could be better with more/replaced plants.









I'm happy to say now the leak is much more manageable. I'd say the loss of water now is more to how the vines are sucking in all the water they need out the tank rather than some minor leak. Massive root formation dangle around the backdrop edges for moisture and nutrition.
Over 24hrs period the loss would be relatively small, a 1-2cm drop in filter water level (that is probably equal to less than 10g). That would be a week and even more before the water level is low enough to let the main pump start sucking in air mixture.


----------



## Axelrodi202

Looking good! But what if your equipment malfunctions? Than you'll have a _real_ flood.


----------



## medicineman

Not at all I am worried about real flooding due to equipment failure or power outage.

The filtration adopts overflow system, and the new opening for channeling overflowing water is revised. It sits wider and allows excessive water to flow through without any serious threat from clogging. Any loose leaf or even dead fish (say that my big discus died without anyone noticing) will be flushed down into the sedimentation chamber. Live fish would be spared as they can swim back out into the main tank instead of getting permanently trapped. Water current is more like a stream, the height difference does exist but quite subtle and does not create waterfall effect.
The final chamber has improved overflow bulkhead to control overall water level. Any excess water will be self drained into the sewer, so that in practice I can do passive water change. Fill in fresh water for certain time or volume and it will mix in with the old one, while the excess will be trimmed down automatically.


----------



## @[email protected]

wow, thats some pretty advanced filtration. 
:thumbsup:


----------



## malaybiswas

You got some amazing setup over there. impressive. nice job and love your discus!


----------



## small-fish

update?


----------



## purplecity

thats heavenly
good luck and looking for future updates


----------



## Guy

It's absolutely stunning! Thank you for sharing.

How are you going to pipe the humidity to the outside?


----------



## chaosmaximus

Just amazing... 

I looked through most of this and have been wondering, is there a couch just out of view? I just imagine myself ignoring tv in favor of a tank like this. 

Chaos


----------



## Centromochlus

Absolutely stunning.

I really like the high water level.


----------



## non_compliance

It is amazing how much different the water level made it look. IT was a GREAT change. I wonder what this garden looks like today... I hope he posts an update soon!! I saw hiim post in another one of his threads...


*crosses fingers.


----------



## medicineman

Hi.

Not much for update.
The setup is doing with minimum touch. 

And the CO2 was off for a good whole week, the fertilizer doser was also not running due to a faulty electrical glitch when I was away several months ago.

This seems to trigger an explosion of green hair algae and I'm on the process of combating it.


----------



## Church

Can you take a far-away picture of the whole setup, with the new improved water level? Please?


----------



## CichlidHead

Cool Project


----------



## FDNY911

Amazing .... I agree, I would totally ignore the TV,Girl,Phone ... pretty much everything else lol.


----------



## medicineman

Hello. Just a simple bump. 
No major work is done and the setup is maintained as is.

I think its time soon to tear up and start the whole system anew.
Provided I have the spare time for this giant ...


----------



## CL

If you don't have any time for it, I'll take it :hihi:
One of the most unique and awesome setups on these forums. Hats off to you


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## yikesjason

It is hard to imagine someone tearing this set up down, but I am sure that you have learned so much from this first set up that the redo will be much better. 

Good luck and we will all be watching.


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## lauraleellbp

Why are you thinking about tearing it down?

Having any issues, thought up a better design, or just want to do something else?


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## medicineman

Tearing it down in terms of starting the setup again. Not tearing up the backdrop, glass and so on to the extent of heavy construction.

The substrate could use a new layer of base fertilizer and un compacting action. This is easily done and thoroughly when the substrate is refreshed (in this case the sand can be washed and laid again with a layer of base fert).


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## slicebo123

no shrimp. how come?


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## WeedCali

Best of luck to ya. that kind of maintenance on a tank that big must be a major PITA.


Also, do you think you could post some pics/info on what filter media your using in that sump?


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## TLE041

I noticed you mentioned that you had some CAEs in there. Did they bother the other fishes at all?




slicebo123 said:


> no shrimp. how come?


They'd be expensive snacks for the angels and discuses.


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## Axelrodi202

I think a huge population of wild type shrimp could do well as long as the tank is extremely densely planted. I recall seeing a 300 gallon tank where there were large schools of both angelfish and rainbowfish living alongside a huge breeding population of RCS. The tank was extremely densely planted, and the shrimp population was huge.


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## FlSHRFun

I just discovered this thread. Good Lord, this is amazing! Great work!
It's unfortunate you have to tear it down. Please, keep us updated on the new project.


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## J-P

man.. that was nice... I thought I had a biggie but yours is inspirational


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## DANIELSON

Wow ive been reading through this journal for what feels like forever and this is awesome. I was definately thinking the same thing this would be a crazy shrimp tank!!! You could have 1000s of RCS in there!!


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## Martin

medicineman said:


> Hello. Just a simple bump.
> No major work is done and the setup is maintained as is.
> 
> I think its time soon to tear up and start the whole system anew.
> Provided I have the spare time for this giant ...


Would be great to see a final photoupdate!!


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## lauraleellbp

It's been a long time, how's the rescaping coming along?

What are you doing with all the discus and the rest of the fish during the substrate "freshening"?


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## globali

Dear medicineman,

Thank U for sharing,
the project is outstanding.

Now I feel very sane doing a
80 gallon planted aquarium.

:icon_wink



Is there a update visual
that show the sunken-garden
with the surrounding area.

:icon_idea


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## Da Plant Man

Just bumping this thread because I crave an update.


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## MikeP_123

Just have to post on this so its easier to find time and time again. I find myself drawing inspiration from this project :biggrin::bounce::bounce::biggrin:


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## medicineman

Been awhile since im active in the forum.

Here you go... picture tells you a lot of story











The setup remains basically as is. It has been a long time with no total overhaul. And its coping quite well actually.

Its just I have to insert root tablets frequently (once every 3 months) to keep the plant sizes good.


Here is an exampe of the nutrition victim taken out (aponogeton boivianus)
yet this is not taken at its fullest size...


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## A Sneaky Fatman

That looks amazing.


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## MikeP_123

wow, hard to find a plant that healthy looking! Are the plants on the walls real?


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## wkndracer

Reading the update regarding the frequency of the root tab additions made me smile this morning. :smile:

That's the same schedule I have settled into on my gravel substrate tanks to maintain growth. 
Beyond 90 days I found that algae growth increases as the plants suffer.

Wonder-Gro Pro Root+ roud:


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## medicineman

@mike,
Those are all real. They grow, proliferate, grow old and die.

Speaking of which, i need to do a rejuvenation program real soon.
Those plants on the wall could be in a lot better condition/state of lush.
Renewing pot substrate, introducing new shoots/seedlings and resume the use of long abstained fertilizer via spraying method ( I use a mix of wonder-gro pro macro+ and pro micro+ ).


@wkndracer,
Happy to hear so.

Its a matter of fact and quite amusing for me as well, but does makes sense.

Reducing a great amount of algae by introducing root tablet fertilizer? Does work. 
The plants will be greatly boosted, increased in metabolism and in turn they better aerate surrounding soil, consume excess nutrient dissolved in the water.

As rule of thumb, once the plants start to stunt, its time to reintroduce the tabs.


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## fandango

Thanks for posting the picture Medicineman! You and your tank has become a global inspiration over the years. Could you bare to post some more close-ups of the tank? You'd make lot's of people really happy if you did


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## ADA

Oh my gosh.. I just saw this for the first time and looked through every page of this thread, start to finish. To echo everyone else who has seen this: WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What an incredible creation. One day I would be so happy to have something even one tenth of this scale. Well done. I'd love to see pic updates!


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## HolyAngel

ADA said:


> Oh my gosh.. I just saw this for the first time and looked through every page of this thread, start to finish. To echo everyone else who has seen this: WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What an incredible creation. One day I would be so happy to have something even one tenth of this scale. Well done. I'd love to see pic updates!


+1 This is a ridiculously awesome tank and setup.. 
I will definitely be using it as inspiration if I can get a house with room for something like it thats for sure.

Keep up the great work!!! And more pics lol


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## PC1

INSANE!!!!! but AWESOME!!!!!


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## luke20037

just sat and read all 34 pages of this post, wish i had the space, time and money for a set up like this, absolutly awsome!!


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## lamiskool

i am definitely going to have one of these in my house if i ever get one


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## sampster5000

Wow! This only exists in many of our dreams. Awesome job.


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## MikeP_123

medicineman said:


> Reducing a great amount of algae by introducing root tablet fertilizer? Does work.
> The plants will be greatly boosted, increased in metabolism and in turn they better aerate surrounding soil, consume excess nutrient dissolved in the water.
> 
> As rule of thumb, once the plants start to stunt, its time to reintroduce the tabs.



Hmmm, thats very interesting! My last tank endured a stunt of growth then a huge algae bloom/plant melt. Maybe just some root tabs would do the trick :thumbsup:


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## narhay

I read this thread several years ago and was pleasantly surprised that it is still a continuing entity. Keep up the excellent work.


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## Janf

WOOOW You needed lot of tim€€€€€€€€€€€ (...) to do something like this! Impressive  Keep updating because I'll keep following as well


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## Capsaicin_MFK

Bump this journal so people can view its amazingness.


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## aweeby

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Bump this journal so people can view its amazingness.


+1 

 
This is just amazing. 'nuff said.


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## Chyrol

What an awesome tank! can't wait for another update!


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## PinkRasbora

Amazing! thats like museum quality stuff there!


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## etgregoire

So awesome! I just discovered this thread. How is the tank and garden doing? Looks so great. Would love to hear about any status updates!!

And I love your bird's nest ferns on the wall. Mine don't do so great... (I live in the USA and it's not tropical enough in my house!)


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## MikeP_123

I'm just going to keep bumping this every so often to help those looking for amazing inspiration.


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## H82LOS3

I just wanted to say that your tank is a masterpiece, I would love to see update pics please


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## Coldwater King

Update med man!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## !shadow!

+1^


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## lamiskool

man saw someone posted and thought that there was an update


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## talontsiawd

lamiskool said:


> man saw someone posted and thought that there was an update


Me too :icon_cry:


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## rickztahone

boo you guys, no update...


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## Lilyth88

Update?


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## Axelrodi202

Sad to say but I don't think we'll be seeing an update; op hasn't been on in 3 years.


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## 180g

:icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry:


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## lamiskool

my heart breaks a little every time I see this thread as updated and then realize its not an update on the "tank"


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## alemao420

That's the most impressive build I've ever seen. 36 pages of true awesomeness. Congrats

Edit: Can you share some recent pics?


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## Gavin288

alemao420 said:


> That's the most impressive build I've ever seen. 36 pages of true awesomeness. Congrats
> 
> Edit: Can you share some recent pics?


the guy hasn't been on since 12-16-2011 03:46 AM, so i doubt we will ever see an update


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## 180g

:icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry:


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## BruceWinnn

Wow that was 36 pages of awesome.. but such a sad ending that there hasnt been an update in years. RIP!


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## Coldwater King

Coming back to some old threads, I forgot how outstanding this "tank" was!


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## medicineman

Hello everyone.

Sorry for the long time lack of update. I have been busy and my planted tank hobby has gone stagnat, but is still running.

To answer the curious and wondering, I can happily share that the tank-pond is doing and aging well for the past almost 10 years.

I have stopped the waterfall from service due to wall leaking caused by poor prep during construction (insufficient know-how back then).
This, in turns caused the aerial and climbing plants to grow less dense.
The top part, fueled by sunlight, had turned into monster leaves.

Looking at the viewing glass, one of them started to develop "glass disease" or known as glass oxidation, turning a bit of milky white.
This is a huge problem to aesthetics, but nothing can be done without tearing the pond apart and re start from point zero.

I managed to run this tank-pond for (almost) straight 10 years without failing and re-starting the whole thing. I would not recommend this way of keeping a planted tank, but just to show what I did does work, although at limitation.






I used all original spec of equipments, replacing those which fails to something similar.
So far the MH bulb had been replaced 3 times, the water pump maybe 3 times as well, the CO2 regulator 2 times and all of its tubes.
One of the backwash valve was also broken and I had to use a small wrench whenever I need to clean the filter chamber (but this only had to be done 2x a year, no sweat here)

The nutrition also comes from the same dosage, blend and recipe from wonder-gro aquatic plant fertilizer.
And yes, for you wondering about this, I did made them myself.

Basically I have the descendants of the same plants (almost) with just new fish stock now and then (well, due to the design I always have some littel fish trapped into the filter chambers).

The shrimp and snails are all from the original stock and thriving in balance.

Overall I intend to keep it just running long enough to the point that I am forced to tear it down for major maintenance.
Hopefully the day wont come too soon, as this project will take some time and a lot of energy to restart and re furbish.

Cheers and happy aquascaping! :icon_mrgr


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## Riverboa

Thanks for the update, the tank looks great. Keep it running for 10 years is truly a marvel! Keep it up.


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## BettaBettas

this made my ******* day, this thread is flippin' educationally, visually, physically, emotionally, epic


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## H82LOS3

I love your tank since day 1, do you have any update? Please show us more of your beautiful tank and fish


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