# 30 Gallon Shrimp Tank



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Looking forward to seeing how this plays out for you.

Only thing I can offer is to suggest that you get that GH up a bit before adding shrimp.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Looking forward to seeing how this plays out for you.
> 
> Only thing I can offer is to suggest that you get that GH up a bit before adding shrimp.


Thats right- the equilibrium. Ill do that now.

Edit: Added a tablespoon of equilibrium- should raise GH approximately 2 degrees.


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## Yaboihunt (Mar 27, 2019)

@richie.p is the shrimp man! Maybe he can be of some help! 


YaBoiHunt


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

For acclimation of shrimp was planning on putting shrimp in large bowl and adding very small amounts of tank water over an hour period. Does this sound good or should I do it a different way?


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## aaron.in (Jun 13, 2019)

Discusluv said:


> For acclimation of shrimp was planning on putting shrimp in large bowl and adding very small amounts of tank water over an hour period. Does this sound good or should I do it a different way?


Dripping is the best and the most safest way to acclimate shrimps... 

Gok [emoji1128]


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

That'll work.

I always drop a bit of Prime into the water when I first open things up to be safe. Then I remove a bunch of the shipping water so there's more room in the container. 

If you have a piece of airline tubing, you can use that and tie a loose knot to control flow to more of a drip. I use airline tubing and an airline flow valve to slowly drip over a couple hours. If you don't have a piece of tubing, just adding small amounts of water over an hour or two will be just fine.



Discusluv said:


> For acclimation of shrimp was planning on putting shrimp in large bowl and adding very small amounts of tank water over an hour period. Does this sound good or should I do it a different way?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

aaron.in said:


> Dripping is the best and the most safest way to acclimate shrimps...
> 
> Gok [emoji1128]


Okay, sounds like my plan is good, thanks. 

Bump:


somewhatshocked said:


> That'll work.
> 
> I always drop a bit of Prime into the water when I first open things up to be safe. Then I remove a bunch of the shipping water so there's more room in the container.
> 
> If you have a piece of airline tubing, you can use that and tie a loose knot to control flow to more of a drip. I use airline tubing and an airline flow valve to slowly drip over a couple hours. If you don't have a piece of tubing, just adding small amounts of water over an hour or two will be just fine.



I do add the prime when acclimating fish on first opening bag- good idea- Ill do this as well with shrimp. I do have airline, but, I think Ill just do small amounts of water...


Just took a measurement with TDS meter--- TDS went from 115 to 135 with the addition of equilibrium.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

in your other thread you said KH 3 GH 5? is it actually 5 3? or...

I will often acclimate shrimp for many hours :/ but yeah basically use a container and either slowly drip in water or small amounts added at a time is also okay. It can probably be done quicker but I don't


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## aaron.in (Jun 13, 2019)

Wobblebonk said:


> in your other thread you said KH 3 GH 5? is it actually 5 3? or...
> 
> 
> 
> I will often acclimate shrimp for many hours :/ but yeah basically use a container and either slowly drip in water or small amounts added at a time is also okay. It can probably be done quicker but I don't


Me too, I never rush with shrimps... 

Gok [emoji1128]


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Wobblebonk said:


> in your other thread you said KH 3 GH 5? is it actually 5 3? or...
> 
> I will often acclimate shrimp for many hours :/ but yeah basically use a container and either slowly drip in water or small amounts added at a time is also okay. It can probably be done quicker but I don't


 Your right! I reverted the KH/GH in this thread.  

You really have to watch me.
It is actually correct in other thread KH 3/GH is 5. 



The shrimp are here!


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Well GH 5 or 7 are both probably alright for those shrimp so not too terrible to have raised it a little.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Wobblebonk said:


> Well GH 5 or 7 are both probably alright for those shrimp so not too terrible to have raised it a little.





Have plenty of time to do a water change if would be better to start them out lower.


They all appear to be active-alive- at this point. Some are really swimming around the bowl, others more subdued.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

That's debatable, better to get it to what you intend to keep the tank at imo, someone else might feel stronger about 5 vs 7 GH than I do. 3 would be a bit low...


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Wobblebonk said:


> That's debatable, better to get it to what you intend to keep the tank at imo, someone else might feel stronger about 5 vs 7 GH than I do. 3 would be a bit low...


 Ill wait for @somewhatshocked to give me advice. Given that I gave him the wrong numbers in this thread. :|



I just looked in the bowl and there are some shrimp in there that I didn't see at first--- that are barely visible. Very young babies.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Okay~ shrimp in ! 

Also received the Flame moss so added it to the back driftwood branch.

Added a piece of shrimp food in dish. I dont know if they will eat yet; but, worth a try.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Looks like you're good to go! 

As far as GH goes... I think it was a good idea to raise it just a bit, as you did. Not absolutely necessary but, in my opinion, probably for the best.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I have been fascinated watching the shrimp today. They have been busy... I haven't noticed them go for the food yet; mainly staying on plants. I think Ill take it out. 
Just pulled some yellow squash from the garden, so Ill try feeding that later. 

I am going to try going to the nursery tomorrow to find some spinach and stinging nettle plants to start in a window. . 



I ordered some Malaysian Mulberry Leaves from Tannin Aquatics for the shrimp. 

I also ordered some of these items. Any of these work for shrimp? If not, Ill put in my other tanks. 
I know that these would have to be added slowly and minimally. But, thought they may provide good surface area for bio-film growth. 
Indian Casuarina Cones https://tanninaquatics.com/products/indian-casuarina-cones
Banana Stem Pieces


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's probably a good idea to wait 2-3 days before feeding. Give them time to settle in. Once they know what's in the tank for them to eat, they'll begin to be more adventurous. Your tank has tons of great surface area, though, so it could take them even longer. 

Just about any leaf litter will work well. I honestly can't believe people are charging high prices like that but to each their own. They'll definitely work well for you if you treat them before putting them in the tank. Shrimp will devour them.

Do you have any trees on your property or any that friends/relatives have that are pesticide-free? Worth checking into to see what you can find. A ziplock bag of leaf litter would last you ages.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> It's probably a good idea to wait 2-3 days before feeding. Give them time to settle in. Once they know what's in the tank for them to eat, they'll begin to be more adventurous. Your tank has tons of great surface area, though, so it could take them even longer.
> 
> Just about any leaf litter will work well. I honestly can't believe people are charging high prices like that but to each their own. They'll definitely work well for you if you treat them before putting them in the tank. Shrimp will devour them.
> 
> Do you have any trees on your property or any that friends/relatives have that are pesticide-free? Worth checking into to see what you can find. A ziplock bag of leaf litter would last you ages.


 I have a large maple tree, several white birches, and an ash tree in my yard. Ill have to ask my relatives what they have.

There are also fruit trees in my yard- didn't think of that: lemon, mandarin, pineapple guava, plum pomegranate



I will definitely treat anything to a boil and a rinse in water before in goes into the tank. 

Ill skip the feedings for a couple days, thank you for letting me know..


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## ohaple (Nov 30, 2018)

It sounds like you have been doing well so far. Feeding shrimp is a little counterintuitive if you are coming from fish since it is typical to feed fish 2x a day but shrimp are more likely 3x a week. Generally better to underfeed than overfeed.

The shrimp you have are all fairly hardy, so you won't need to worry terribly about an exact kh/gh. Consistency will be more important. Everyone I know locally who keeps shrimp just uses dechlorinated tap water. Depending on the quality of your tap water, remineralized RO is probably not needed. The tank looks great, I am sure you will do fine with your research and prior experience.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Yeah, there's probably so much for those shrimp to snack on in 30 gallons of mature aquarium that supplemental feeding isn't even being noticed. That will change as their numbers grow and they whittle away at the biofilm. Glad you're enjoying them!

I bought Catapatta leaves and so forth for years but now I use mostly fallen oak leaves from my yard for leaf litter.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Ca't wait to see photos of the shrimp in the tank!!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Thelongsnail said:


> Ca't wait to see photos of the shrimp in the tank!!


 I am a bit embarrassed to show the tank right now because I used glue to put the flame moss on wood and it is _so _obvious. I should have tried tying it on with string like @somewhatshocked suggested. It looks ugly. 

I also took off the background and am in process of putting on another. 



I guess I shouldn't be so self-conscious about the flaws...


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Super glue gel is my favorite method for attaching moss. It grows quickly and within a week or two completely covers the glue. Added bonus: You don't have to wait a long time for thread to break down.

One of the best things about journaling is seeing one's tank when it's not at its best. That way it's more impressive when things grow in and settle down.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

No need to be self conscious, but fair enough if you want to wait!

I always find thread to be an absolute pita, nothing worse than soggy plants, soggy wood, and bits of soggy thread sticking to you... urgh.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Yesterday had wonderful BBQ with some fellow members from TPT and members of sfbaaps.

Like the shrimp newbie I am, when asked what kind of shrimp I had I said "wild shrimp." 
"But, what kind of wild shrimp," they asked, "Cherry shrimp?"
"No," I said, "they are not red." 
"Cherry shrimp come in many colors." They said. 
"Oh," I responded, turning red. "Ill look at my order from Aquatic Arts."


Such a light-weight.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Update:
After y'all assured me it was okay to show my glue-ridden sticks and "bare" - a$$ background- I wont be embarrassed. 

Added some more plants to tank received from other members at BBQ. So very generous of them...

Also, added a mulberry leaf under glass bowl with piece of Jake's Veggie food and a couple cholla pieces. The shrimp *luv *the food- but, so do the assassin snails I thought I had picked out of the tank prior to getting the shrimp. Where were they hiding? Sneaky little guys. 

Its really hard to take pictures of these shrimp with my I-phone- their colors and markings are subdued. They are not really colorful like many of the shrimp you see in other journals. Of course, like I stated earlier in this thread, that is my preference... 
But, does make them difficult to photograph. 

I think I will do my first water change tomorrow. I will need to modify my thinking and not do a 50% water change weekly. Ill do about 25% and see how that goes. 
The mesh pre-filter that I bought recently is kinda a pain, it clogs up with debris very quickly- daily. Its trying my patience. I really dont want to wash this pre-filter daily in order to not have reduced flow from my canister filter. I think ill order a trusty sponge prefilter instead. With those you only need to clean every 3-5 days. Thats what you get for trying to be "fancy." 

Any and all suggestions, comments, recommendations greatly appreciated.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I suspect that in 3 months that tank is going to be absolutely crawling with babies. If it isn't please take me up on my offer to send you some of mine that are breeding like roaches. Shrimp are a lot like fish. You'll know when you need to feed them when they swarm food. Much of the time they are uninterested because they are finding food everywhere. It's only when you have such a population that they are hungry that they populate a shrimp lolly or so forth. With that size tank and 30-50 new shrimp, I can't imagine they are looking for supplemental food. Yet. But that time is coming, trust me!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I suspect that in 3 months that tank is going to be absolutely crawling with babies. If it isn't please take me up on my offer to send you some of mine that are breeding like roaches. Shrimp are a lot like fish. You'll know when you need to feed them when they swarm food. Much of the time they are uninterested because they are finding food everywhere. It's only when you have such a population that they are hungry that they populate a shrimp lolly or so forth. With that size tank and 30-50 new shrimp, I can't imagine they are looking for supplemental food. Yet. But that time is coming, trust me!


 Thank you so much! I definitely will keep your generous offer in mind in the coming months. 

You know, they must be getting plenty of food because they do not swarm the food. There is always three to four crawling on the food and within the cup- but, never a swarm. 

They are throughout the tank. They are eating something. 

I hope they are all fine. I know some are fine because I see 5-10 at any one time...


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I have a 5.5 gallon with probably well over 200 including babies. They are the only tank I have that cluster over introduced foods. But even my 50 gallon cull tank (no fish) don't seem to need supplemental feedings. Of course I feed all of those anyway.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

You'll have a better experience with a sponge pre-filter. Plus your shrimp will likely congregate on the sponge - especially shrimplets. Some folks clamor for the DIY stainless thing you bought but I find them to be impractical and less durable than one needs in an aquarium.

Mine get a gentle squeeze in old tank water when I do water changes. In some tanks, that's only once every couple weeks or so. They clog way more slowly with shrimp because they keep them pecked (edit: I meant "picked") clean.

They'll eventually get hungry. Just have to give them time to settle in and then they'll swarm whatever you feed them. That might take way longer than you're expecting because they may not run out of whatever they're currently eating for several weeks. (That's a good thing.)


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Something just occurred to me. Do I need the air-pump in this tank? Or should I just take it out?


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Probably don't *need* it but I wouldn't really think it hurts any...


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Wobblebonk said:


> Probably don't *need* it but I wouldn't really think it hurts any...


Okay, thanks @Wobblebonk- Ill just leave it in there, then.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Maybe you could use it to run a tiny sponge filter hidden in the back somewhere? 

It'll come in handy when you start to develop multiple tank syndrome for shrimp.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Maybe you could use it to run a tiny sponge filter hidden in the back somewhere?
> 
> It'll come in handy when you start to develop multiple tank syndrome for shrimp.


Yes, that MTS is highly likely.:laugh2:


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

somewhatshocked said:


> You'll have a better experience with a sponge pre-filter. Plus your shrimp will likely congregate on the sponge - especially shrimplets. Some folks clamor for the DIY stainless thing you bought but I find them to be impractical and less durable than one needs in an aquarium.


Have you tried Jungle Aqua's from user JungleFowl here on the forums? I used Aqua Clear sponges with a hole cut out of the for years but tried some of his and have been quite impressed. I'm only 5-6 months into using them, but they seem to be made pretty well and are holding up so far. My problem with sponges is that I felt like every time I took them off to rinse, I was boring the opening out more when I'd put them back on. I watched small shrimp crawl down that hole and wondered if any could get far enough to find the intake. Probably not anything that is going to impact numbers at all, but figured I could eliminate it as even a risk with the steel mesh. Largely a matter of preference, and with time I may cool on my opinion of these but so far, so good.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Tried similar ones off and on for several years and just ultimately prefer sponge. The steel almost always - regardless of the grade of material used - degrades in acidic water at a rate that irks me. Probably fine for the average hobbyist, though. 

I have a bunch of tanks (way less than I used to, thankfully! but still a lot) and tend to buy sponge in bulk and cut my own. But there are quite a few different varieties and sizes available on the market that have held up well for me for several years. I've had some on my AquaClear and Eheim filters that have been in use since 2010 or 2011 that haven't yet needed to be replaced due to stretching or wearing out. But I also have some (only 2, really, and I still have them kinda zip tied) that have broken down a bit after a couple years.

Full disclosure: I always gravitate to dark or black hardware to make it easier to hide against a black background or behind plants. So sponges really fit the bill for me. Same goes for cheap dual sponge filters on fleabay.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I was doing some reading on the micro-rasbora species for this tank, B. brigittae, B. maculatus or B. merah. 
I have never kept any rasbora species- weird when think about how long Ive been keeping fish. 
Anyways, its shocking to me how readily these fish breed in the aquarium. Appears to take little effort on the part of the aquarist. Put in a good mix of males/females, add spawning medium, set the parameters right and you have a good chance of off-spring. 

The question I have though, as I would put them in with the shrimp, is the matter of temperature. It looks like they do best around 75-77 in aquarium. At 72 degrees, which is where I have my tank set, they may be temperature stressed? 

What has your experience been? 
Here is a good article I came across of the three common micro-species. 
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/boraras-marvels-in-miniature/


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The garden is exploding in this heat- blanched summer squash for the shrimp ( and me) on menu for dinner.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I've kept B. brigittae in 68-80ish water and they've been fine. But they do best for me in really soft, blackwater conditions.

Have also had shrimp - unsure if Neo or Amano - eat their eggs right as they're scattered. That drives me up the wall. One would think it would only happen if something were wrong with the eggs but nope, not always the case. 

Had the most success with breeding in a 20gal long, nearly bare bottom, a little buffering substrate, tons of leaf litter, all that. I don't like to keep them long-term like that, obviously, because they look so much better in well-scaped tanks.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

thanks for your valued input @somewhatshocked

Did my first water change yesterday. Around 25%. All appears fine this morning. Did find one molt ( I guess, not sure) while doing water change. It was a white shell. Hope the poor guy didn't die... Kinda an errie looking thing floating in the plants. 

It is so hard to take pictures of the shrimp, so thought I would do a video instead. I would just go to the 1 minute mark- alot of me just trying to find the shrimp up to that point. At around 2 minutes can see one of the Orange otocinclus. They love planting themselves in the stream of the bubbler. What was I thinking...I cant take out the air-pump- these guys would be so disappointed, lol. 

I found a fish, much more subdued in color, that I think will fit the 'wild-form' aspect of the tank- Microdevario kubotai. The green color seems really appealing to me for this tank. How many- 18? 24? I feel a bit unsure. They will be the only fish ( with the exception of the 4 otocinclus.) 


*Edit: * I just ordered 24 of the kubotai. Should be good in a 30 gallon as they are so small. 
Anyways, a video:
https://vimeo.com/345999295


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I just remembered-- I have a 10 gallon tank in the garage--- I can make another shrimp tank!!
See how resourceful you are when you are obsessed.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Ordered background and some proper sponges for intake. The mesh prefilter is snazzy looking, but impractical. 

Lots of movement in tank today. Instead of 7-8 shrimp at a time being out and about- I counted 12 this morning. Maybe more comfortable?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Got the new sponge for the pre-filter and the black background. I was very happy ( and pleasantly surprised) at how clean the sponge looks in the tank. I think it is a prefilter sponge designed for the Fluvel Edge? Ill have to look back at my Amazon order to save it for next time need to order one. 

The background will not be able to get to, most likely, until Monday. Im excited that I will finally be able to see the tank with something other than a wall for a backdrop. 

The shrimp all appear to be doing well. After reading Jake's journals ( wonderful, I recommend anyone new to shrimp-keeping read!) I tested my TDS to see where I am- it was 122. When checked prior to adding shrimp, it was at 115 and I have done 1 - 25% water change ( last Monday) since receiving shrimp. Im thinking this is pretty good? Not much movement. I think 25% weekly water change will be right where Ill want to stay. Im curious where i am on KH/GH. Ill do another test by Monday and update with pictures.

Fish get delivered next week.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Great to hear you're getting everything settled.

Sponge pre-filters really are ideal for shrimp. Stainless steel intakes are nice and all but like you said - it's easier to make something like a sponge appear to disappear in a tank with a dark/black background.

Your water parameters sound fine. Maybe on the low end of TDS and all that but nothing to worry about. Your critters are adjusting and as long as you keep things stable, all will be well. Before you know it, you'll have hundreds of shrimp. When you think you see 40-50? There are probably 200 hiding out.

Looking forward to seeing how those wild-types develop as they breed a few times.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Great to hear you're getting everything settled.
> 
> Sponge pre-filters really are ideal for shrimp. Stainless steel intakes are nice and all but like you said - it's easier to make something like a sponge appear to disappear in a tank with a dark/black background.
> 
> ...


 I cant wait to see how they look after a couple generations as well. When was looking at the wild-types today I was surprised to see the variation in color. Some have gotten really blue from what they looked like when first put them in the tank. Also, there was one shrimp that looked much larger then the others - and brown! Looks almost like a different species. 

Went tonight to a meeting at Sacramento aquatic society and they had Red cherry shrimp and Orange Sakura ( I think that was what they were) for auction. I didn't buy any, of course- dont want to mix with the ones that have. But, I was surprised that they had them there. It was alot of fun. 

Went home with a couple things I bid on: a used copy of Takashi Amano's book _Nature Aquarium World _and a Brazil nut shell that I thought might provide a good shelter for some baby shrimps. :grin2:

Here is a picture of the shell. It is larger, round- so cool:
https://amazonrainforestconservancy.com/who-knew-brazil-nut-trees-were-so-interesting/


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Something you'll find enjoyable as the colony matures is picking up a random Neo here or there to add to the genetic diversity of the tank. I do that sometimes at auctions or when at a fish shop that is wildly ill-prepared to care for shrimp.

Have you begun to notice the difference in males and females? You'll probably begin to see some berries over the coming weeks.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Something you'll find enjoyable as the colony matures is picking up a random Neo here or there to add to the genetic diversity of the tank. I do that sometimes at auctions or when at a fish shop that is wildly ill-prepared to care for shrimp.
> 
> Have you begun to notice the difference in males and females? You'll probably begin to see some berries over the coming weeks.


 So, eventually it will be a good idea? Okay, that makes sense. 

I haven't seen any differences between the two sexes yet, unfortunately. As I gain more experience I should be better able to do that- I hope.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

So not for this tank because more wild types in the same tank will just be confusing, but I could send you some of these caridina pareparensis parvidentata, also called "malawa" shrimp... 
the babaultis tend not to breed with the other caridina but no guarantee exactly which these will breed with...









Listed params are "Water Temp	70°-80° F pH Range	7.0-8.0 best in high pH " or from somewhere else "pH 6.5 - 7.8 Temp. (70 -82 °F)" but I just have them in tap water here which is ~4kh 7gh and the lady I got them from has them breeding in all kinds of tanks from mostly rain water mid 80s temp discus tank to just tap that is harder than what it seems your water is. She claims they will do well in almost anything. Technically from sulawesi :/ the red one might be a neo... but she also said there's a lot of color variation and they can maybe be bluish in outdoor tubs. Not sure where you are likely to find them in stock in the US besides maybe msjinkzd?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Wobblebonk said:


> So not for this tank because more wild types in the same tank will just be confusing, but I could send you some of these caridina pareparensis parvidentata, also called "malawa" shrimp...
> the babaultis tend not to breed with the other caridina but no guarantee exactly which these will breed with...
> 
> 
> ...


 Im sorry, I missed this post! Thank you for this generous offer- I may just take you up on this in the upcoming future. 




Also, I finally got a background on my tank. The black background will take some getting used to--- its so dark!!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

The background is dark but it makes all the green pop. Functions in a way that you don't even notice the background.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Now, that's a great looking planted tank! I predict 100's of shrimps.
M. kubotai will be perfect there. A dozen or so C. hastatus ?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

M kubotai delayed for a week. Had 12 but not 24...- grrrrr....


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Took out my G/H and K/H tests to test 30 gallon shrimp tank. The date on the kit is expired: April 2019. Thought, what the hey, Ill try anyways. The G/H test kit says that it will turn pink with first drop and then turn blue when reach hardness level. It didn't turn pink- stayed clear- so tester too old. 
The KH started off orange with first drop and changed to blue on drop 3. But, I dont know if I can rely on it. Ordered a new test kit. 

The R/O system came yesterday-- _its fancy._


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

That's no fun re: test kits. I've found that gH kits, regardless of brand, tend to go south way faster than anything else.

But awesome news about the RO. You'll probably have all of your tanks switched over in no time.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

somewhatshocked said:


> But awesome news about the RO. You'll probably have all of your tanks switched over in no time.


If I had discus like those, I'd certainly consider it. But I enjoy simplicity too much, it's why I got out of reefs and now have barely stocked heavily planted tanks all over my house. If I may segue the thread a tad, I'd like to ask you and other folks who use RO on everything how they do it. I have a beast of an RO/DI unit and two 135 gallon water storage tanks from my reef store days -and only use it for Caridina. In theory I'd like to use RO on more stuff but I just like using the Python too much, and have pretty blessed tap. I think I'd have to cut down from my current 8 tanks to maybe 3 if I had to bucket water for all of them. Even using vessels and pumps, it's just so, so much more time. And my shrimp tanks run cold, some fish tanks quite warm, etc. I'd like to see how other people with MTS do it. I can 20% water change 2 125's, a 65, a 29 biocube, 2 50 gallon tanks, a 10 and a 5.5 in probably 3 hours. The smallest two tanks (the 10 and 5.5) use RO and if counting mixing mineral salts, testing and such are included, take an hour of that time. Of course, I'm super careful vacuuming those to avoid the tiny babies. I have neos in everything else and while I obviously try to avoid sucking up shrimp, won't even stop the Python if I see one get past the siphon neck anymore.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I think the short answer is: If you have great tap water for most of your critters? Use it. No sense in over complicated things if you don't need to. Use RO for your more sensitive tanks.

But it's not tough to do for a ton of tanks. It takes me about the same amount of time if I have water pre-made and in storage containers. 

I got tired of my tap water being unreliable. Tons of chloramine, always ammonia, always a ton of nitrate, sometimes heavy metals and other garbage. When there's a cyanobacteria bloom in the Ohio River, the water stinks and parameters are crazy. So I switched to have more stability. 

When it comes to smaller shrimp tanks, it's obviously easier because you need less water. I like to keep a 20gal Brute can for mixing. Or a 5gal bucket if you have fewer, smaller tanks. Place a cheap pump in the bottom of it with a barb & hose attached that allows for things to be blended up quickly. Once mixed, it's easy to fill a smaller container with the hose to move to the tanks. That really speeds things up. 

My preference for filling tanks is to use containers with drip lines. Example: You take half a gallon of water from a tank. Place half a gallon of new water above the tank and use a piece of airline tubing with a cheap valve/flow controller to refill. You can buy them pre-made with u-shaped plastic tubes to hook over the edge of your container or make your own for cheap. That makes water change day go quickly.

The best tip I can give for smaller tanks? Use an enema bucket (seriously) that has tubing and a controllable hose clamp for refills. Even if you have to fill the bucket up a couple times, it's still way faster than doing it manually. I find this method works well for all tanks. But for larger ones, you obviously have to have a larger refill container. A carboy with a hose would probably be ideal for big tanks.

Note: I haven't vacuumed a shrimp tank in 20 years, so I can't really speak to that. Have never really had to do that.



Blue Ridge Reef said:


> If I had discus like those, I'd certainly consider it. But I enjoy simplicity too much, it's why I got out of reefs and now have barely stocked heavily planted tanks all over my house. If I may segue the thread a tad, I'd like to ask you and other folks who use RO on everything how they do it. I have a beast of an RO/DI unit and two 135 gallon water storage tanks from my reef store days -and only use it for Caridina. In theory I'd like to use RO on more stuff but I just like using the Python too much, and have pretty blessed tap. I think I'd have to cut down from my current 8 tanks to maybe 3 if I had to bucket water for all of them. Even using vessels and pumps, it's just so, so much more time. And my shrimp tanks run cold, some fish tanks quite warm, etc. I'd like to see how other people with MTS do it. I can 20% water change 2 125's, a 65, a 29 biocube, 2 50 gallon tanks, a 10 and a 5.5 in probably 3 hours. The smallest two tanks (the 10 and 5.5) use RO and if counting mixing mineral salts, testing and such are included, take an hour of that time. Of course, I'm super careful vacuuming those to avoid the tiny babies. I have neos in everything else and while I obviously try to avoid sucking up shrimp, won't even stop the Python if I see one get past the siphon neck anymore.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Not really sure what methods I am going to take to do this yet. Ill use Jake's techniques as a guide because I have no clue. 
Right now will just do it for the shrimp tanks and get confident in that routine and move on to breeding discus pairs and Altums. That will be down the road- slow and steady. 
For now, will most likely just use a 5 gallon bucket because that is all the water will need for a weekly water change for the 30 and the 10 ( when set up). ~Will an air-stone in 5 gallon bucket be enough for the time being? 

Tested the GH with the new kit- it was the same as the last time I tested- at 5.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> If I had discus like those, I'd certainly consider it. But I enjoy simplicity too much, it's why I got out of reefs and now have barely stocked heavily planted tanks all over my house. If I may segue the thread a tad, I'd like to ask you and other folks who use RO on everything how they do it. I have a beast of an RO/DI unit and two 135 gallon water storage tanks from my reef store days -and only use it for Caridina. In theory I'd like to use RO on more stuff but I just like using the Python too much, and have pretty blessed tap. I think I'd have to cut down from my current 8 tanks to maybe 3 if I had to bucket water for all of them. Even using vessels and pumps, it's just so, so much more time. And my shrimp tanks run cold, some fish tanks quite warm, etc. I'd like to see how other people with MTS do it. I can 20% water change 2 125's, a 65, a 29 biocube, 2 50 gallon tanks, a 10 and a 5.5 in probably 3 hours. The smallest two tanks (the 10 and 5.5) use RO and if counting mixing mineral salts, testing and such are included, take an hour of that time. Of course, I'm super careful vacuuming those to avoid the tiny babies. I have neos in everything else and while I obviously try to avoid sucking up shrimp, won't even stop the Python if I see one get past the siphon neck anymore.


I just calculated how much water I change weekly with the 180, the 2- 30 gallons, and the 60 gallon--- 185 gallons. That would need a big water storage container! :surprise:


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Here is a ( bad) picture of the wild-type neo that is so much bigger than the others. He/she also has orange eyes.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I was watching the shrimp tank today and I came up with some questions:

Why is that shrimp sitting in one spot and moving its back swimming legs over and over- not actually moving- just "rowing its back legs". I noticed it was very round and ( because I am as blind as a bat, even with bifocals) decided to get the magnifying glass to get a closer look. Well, Ill be- it is berried. With some reading it appears that the shrimp is "aerating" the eggs. The movement is purposeful and productive. Fascinating creatures. 

I also found a much larger exo-skeleton than the last one. Just learned that this shedding is necessary for growth. [Yeah, I didn't know this. I have spent so much time concerned with making sure water parameters, food, filtration is right that haven't spent that much time in learning behaviorism's.] In my reading, it appears the females mate with the males while hidden, sending out pheromones into the water to draw in potential males. 

Another observation: Not a lot of swimming around in the water from space to space--- the shrimp are settled on substrate, leaves, in dish feeding...
When I was reading, I got the impression that it was fertile females that caused that swimming back and forth [males in search of females] that I had seen more of last week. That when few fertile females, the shrimp are more inclined to moving in a smaller area as opposed to swimming to other areas.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Berried AND molts coming at a reasonable pace? Both good signs.

You'll begin to see your shrimp get more active as the population grows. But there are still going to be times when you have hundreds of shrimp and only see a few. They're funny like that.

Watching shrimp eggs develop is truly fascinating. You'll begin to see little eyes form in each of the eggs quite soon. If you're anything like me, you'll find yourself thinking of ways to get berried mamas to feed on the surface of the glass so you can get good photos and check things out. (veggie clips with suction cups work well for that, fyi)


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

veggie clips with suction cups=- YES!


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

I went to a LFS to buy these rimless fluval flora 15" cubes for $165 (w/fluval 3.0 nano/a lid/ac 20 hob/45gram co2 kits/fluval plant gro+ and just resell the mini co2kits & ferts) but I decided those would still be available later and came home with this :/. Maybe 1 other LFS sort of stocks some Seapora tanks and I didn't think I'd see a similar tank again anytime soon. Though gonna be a month or 2 before I get any shrimp in there, but working on a new 30g shrimp tank of my own I guess.








Probably not going to use all that wood... just what I had laying around right now. Leaning towards spider wood or mayalsian driftwood (probably with more of either)... my "scapes" are pretty terrible though. Leaning towards just a sponge filter (or2 small ones?) right now, though also considering co2... especially since I was a dummy and started a bunch of eriocaulon from seed recently and will need somewhere low ph/kh to grow them out ;/. Maybe I would be better served with one of these mini in tank canister filters or just a small canister with sponge intake? I'd prefer to just use sponge filters though... so I might just toss some plants from another tank to make room for the eriocaulon there.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

@Wobblebonk: That's a great size tank. My vote is for Malaysian driftwood and more of it. Maybe a few rocks, as well, if you want.

If it were me, I'd move the Erio to another tank and use this terrific footprint solely for shrimp - and tons of them. You could use all kinds of moss, pellia, Crypts, some Anubias, Java Fern, maybe even some emersed growth on the wood.

You could use a canister or HOB filter if you want. But you can absolutely use sponge filters. Put a black background on it, put in three double sponge filters and call it a day. You can get a decent air pump and 3-way manifold or gang valve for cheap. The filters will kind of disappear with the black background and when plants and hardscape are in front of them.

I use 3-4 double sponge filters in my 20gal tanks (because there's room for more of them in a longer tank) and it's worked well for several years.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Probably will be some rocks in the final product but I haven't put anything down to protect the glass yet, and haven't built a stand or bought a sturdy end table/stand to hold the tank just yet so that will have to wait a little bit. You're right though, just gonna make space for the erios elsewhere and do some less demanding plants in here.

Ordered some opaque black static cling stuff for cheap... my remaining rolls are more translucent... more sponge filters is not a problem though, running most of my tanks off 2 linear air pumps as it is. Actually I wouldn't have to buy anything to run 3 double sponge filters in here so that's a big plus. Only reason I would have run a canister on this was for co2 as it's a shallow wide shape... with multiple sponge filters and co2 from a diffuser in 1 spot it would probably not have good water movement/distribution of co2 or so I was thinking.

I don't want to derail the journal too much though...


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

somewhatshocked said:


> You'll begin to see your shrimp get more active as the population grows. But there are still going to be times when you have hundreds of shrimp and only see a few. They're funny like that.
> 
> Watching shrimp eggs develop is truly fascinating. You'll begin to see little eyes form in each of the eggs quite soon. If you're anything like me, you'll find yourself thinking of ways to get berried mamas to feed on the surface of the glass so you can get good photos and check things out.


I can just watch them do this all day!









https://imgur.com/y35Ene6


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I can just watch them do this all day!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is this one of your shrimp? --- Excellent video. Cant wait to see it like this!

Bump:


Wobblebonk said:


> I went to a LFS to buy these rimless fluval flora 15" cubes for $165 (w/fluval 3.0 nano/a lid/ac 20 hob/45gram co2 kits/fluval plant gro+ and just resell the mini co2kits & ferts) but I decided those would still be available later and came home with this :/. Maybe 1 other LFS sort of stocks some Seapora tanks and I didn't think I'd see a similar tank again anytime soon. Though gonna be a month or 2 before I get any shrimp in there, but working on a new 30g shrimp tank of my own I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a really nice tank` perfect for shrimp.  Nice find.

My scapes are not the greatest either; but, they are a heck of a lot better than when I first started reading this site a couple years ago. Ill bet you have noticed yours are better as well. I dont measure my skill by what I see here- only by where I came from.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Yep, that was one of my surviving michlings. There are a few babies now, but I'm not seeing nearly as many as she was berried with. Another is about to do the same so hopefully I get this thing back up to a colony sooner than later.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Yep, that was one of my surviving michlings. There are a few babies now, but I'm not seeing nearly as many as she was berried with. Another is about to do the same so hopefully I get this thing back up to a colony sooner than later.


 What is a michling? I tried to google it- but nothing came up. 

It is wild-type, isn't it?


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

A mischling (technically german for crossbreed/mongrel) is a crossbreed between crystal and taiwan bees.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Took a peek at the shrimp tank. That berried female has taken refuge on bottom of sponge. Her stomach is fat! I was planning on doing the weekly water change and cleaning of sponge but now I think Ill just do water change and leave the sponge alone. It has a lot of plant debris; but, doesn't seem to be impeding flow. 

Getting some spikey growth on Flame moss. ( big grin) 
It is slow, modest growth- granted; but, so excited nevertheless! I have never been able to grow moss before in the aquarium because it would get too much algae growth or diatoms ( brownish algae). Like Jake said, the secret must be cooler temperatures. It is like night and day. Encouraged by this, Ive been looking at other moss types- getting more and more excited at the possibilities.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Finally, Kubotai here tomorrow morning!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The Kubotai came today. Wow, not what I expected as far as behavior- so far anyway. Ive never- in 3 decades of fish-keeping- kept Rasboras of any type. So, in my mind I was expected "tetra-like" behavior. But, they really are not like any tetra I have kept-- and I have kept many different types. They are spread throughout aquarium: not even particularly shoaling- certainly not a schooling tetra. each doesn't seem inclined to be in proximity to the other. They are nippy at each other; but, harmless I would imagine. Most likely males doing this. But, overall, in a small package- very robust of behavior. I dont want to say "aggressive" or even "semi-aggressive"- just boisterous. 

The swimming pattern is unusual: not linear-directional; more short bursts in one direction and swift changing of course. 
The colors are bland at acclimation- but, slowly intensifying as they adjust to tank. 

Not sure ill keep them in this tank. They have kind of put the whole mood of tank "off-kilter" 

The shrimp appear oblivious of them and they to the shrimp. 

I received the veggie clip (thank you for the suggestion @somewhatshocked). I added some Organic Nuri Seaweed to veggie clip to see if the shrimp would like it. 

Here is video of the tank with the new fish. You can also see the new growth (in video) of Flame moss. 
About 1:00 minute in: Is this shrimp berried as well? I cant tell for sure. 

https://vimeo.com/348719793


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

The shrimp at 1:14 is definitely berried. Super-fat with eggs, even.

Microdevario kubotai are great. Give them some time to settle in and you'll begin to see much more social, friendly behavior - but not like you're used to. They'll eventually group together here and there.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> The shrimp at 1:14 is definitely berried. Super-fat with eggs, even.
> 
> Microdevario kubotai are great. Give them some time to settle in and you'll begin to see much more social, friendly behavior - but not like you're used to. They'll eventually group together here and there.


 Thank you for identifying that this shrimp was berried, I thought so... but thought maybe it may just be darkening in stomach. Ha ha!:smile2:
Now that I know, there are at least 3-4 of the neo's that look like this. The one in the video is the other type though, isnt it? - the cardina baubalti?


Ill be patient with the Kubotai. Just was such a surprise with the difference in what I was expecting...


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep, Baubalti.



Discusluv said:


> The one in the video is the other type though, isnt it? - the cardina baubalti?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Cant tell you how much I am enjoying these shrimp. Its such a different experience than keeping fish. It encourages you sit in front of the tank and observe whats happening in a much more focused way--- waiting for them to climb from behind a clump of moss, from under a leaf, or from the backside of a branch. 

I walked by the tank today and saw one of the berried shrimp up on the glass so I could get a closer look at the eggs as they are developing. That was so cool! 

I have had to adjust my mind, however, to what a shrimp tank needs as opposed to a fish tank. Discourage myself from feeding too much, changing too much water, complicating what is better left alone.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Always love it when experienced hobbyists discover shrimp tanks - I mean really discover them like this.

You're beginning to figure out why so many of us keep tanks where we sit/work/relax most of the time.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Tank humming along and Ive been doing a lot of reading about shrimp/shrimp care both within and without the forum. 

I still kinda regret putting the fish in here; but, what is done is done. I dont have another tank to move them to where they wouldn't end up as a cichlid snack. I find myself nervously hovering around the tank watching for them to pick at the shrimp, but, so far, they have been the best of citizens. So, I feed them a small pinch of ground flake each day and hope they will grow on me...


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

How are Rasboras' colors coming along? I don't expect them to bother shrimp at all and hopefully they will grow on you. They are beatiful and active fish.

I checked them again at Exotic Aquarium this weekend and their colors were much better then 3 weeks ago.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

OVT said:


> How are Rasboras' colors coming along? I don't expect them to bother shrimp at all and hopefully they will grow on you. They are beatiful and active fish.
> 
> I checked them again at Exotic Aquarium this weekend and their colors were much better then 3 weeks ago.


They are not very colorful- maybe that's why Im disappointed as well. Did you go to Exotic aquarium again? Tell me next time you go and Ill meet you there.


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Seconded, I dont think you will have a great degree of issue with the rasboras, but keep an eye anyway. I also do really understand the wanting of a shrimp only tank, it just makes you feel calmer about all shrimp being able to live as calmly as possible...and funnily enough, low stress environments are important for shrimp. 

I do love this tank, I'm wanting to set up yet another shrimp only tank...but where to put it...hmmm


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The Kubotai are starting to color up- finally! It took quite a while for them to settle and express their natural coloration. I guess they are feeling more at home. 

Changed 25% of the water and did a slow trickle from python with replacement water. It has been really hot here in California ( 105 on Saturday!); so, even though water set to cold, the temperature was 76 degrees after adding fresh water. The temperature was 77 degrees prior to adding fresh water. Hoping this is fine--- if not will need to get a fan. 

I plan to use the RO system with this tank as well; but, as yet, haven't got the system set up. Actually, to be honest, I haven't even taken it out of the box yet. I am kinda intimidated by it. Ill gather my confidence soon. When it comes to fish-keeping, Im kinda slow to learn new techniques. 

The plants are growing really well in this tank-- _for me_, maybe someone else would find it disappointing-- (Ill qualify that properly)  . Although, I did notice a bit of hair algae on the moss. 
I have been dosing 1 x weekly half the dosage on the back of Seachem bottles for NPK, Iron, Flourish and Advance. And, also, put a root tab around the crypts, juncus, wisteria, and lily. I haven't noticed any issues; but, if I have just skated by with dumb luck, tell me by all means and Ill stop. 

Here are some quick phone pictures.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Don't let the RO/DI system intimidate you. The worst that can happen is you have to change clothes a few times and put down some towels. 

I run mine (my home unit - which is cheap and from fleabay) in an area where I can keep an eye on it. But if you don't have yours in a spot like that? Just set a timer to remind yourself to check on it every little bit when it's running. 

Had to take mine apart this morning and flush the membrane (people love say that's not necessary but I've found that it sometimes *IS*) in order to get it going. Just takes some trial and error sometimes. If you can figure out how to keep plants and fish alive? An RO system should be a cakewalk. 

Glad to hear the Microdevario kubotai are settling in. Have you noticed them spending a lot of time near the filter outflow? Mine loved doing that when I kept them. Probably more than any other species I've had.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Don't let the RO/DI system intimidate you. The worst that can happen is you have to change clothes a few times and put down some towels.
> 
> I run mine (my home unit - which is cheap and from fleabay) in an area where I can keep an eye on it. But if you don't have yours in a spot like that? Just set a timer to remind yourself to check on it every little bit when it's running.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for this.
I'm sure in the future I will look back at my intimidation at this contraption as silly. Just need to get past opening the box... those first steps can sometimes be the hardest.
The _Microdevario kubotai _are_ very _interested in hanging out at the filter outflow. Also, when adding fresh water to the aquarium- they all congregate around the water flow. I wonder if it is the flow itself that they are drawn to or the higher oxygenation.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Definitely the flow. They typically live in streams with tons of flow, if I'm not mistaken. 

It's really cool to see them in long, stream-like setups. There used to be some great journals here on the forum with them. I'll have to fire up the search dialogue and go hunting for them.

One of my favorite micro fish for sure.



Discusluv said:


> I wonder if it is the flow itself that they are drawn to or the higher oxygenation.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The sides of the aquarium are starting to get some brown algae growth. The plants as well... not brown algae, but on some leaves and one section of aquarium near substrate getting that green algae that takes a razor blade to remove from glass. I had heard this algae was more inclined to show up due to phosphate deficiency? I dont know. I dont like it becuase its so hard to remove. Last week was seeing hair algae, but that seems to be subsiding. 
Anyways, the reason this concerns me is I had read that when you see algae on side glass you are feeding shrimp too much. 
Feeding the fish complicates the problem. 
This is why when you are learning a new species it is best to take it slow and not complicate the process by too many variables. Learn shrimp, then add some fish. You are, then, able to anticipate possible problems. 

So, starting today, I am going to cut back on amount of food feeding fish. I think that I can cut back and still provide an adequate diet for the actively growing, juvenile fish. Im used to fish that are much larger, and need to modify my mind-set.

Seeing lots of baubalti shrimp milling around on the side of tank with inlet and air-stone. They are definitely drawn to this side of tank because of water flow and circulation. Observing this side of tank closely, I was rewarded by seeing my first glimpse of 3 shrimp babies in corner of tank directly below inlet at substrate level. They are so small I am surprised I saw them because of my poor eyesight (despite glasses). But, that is why, with shrimp, you need to get up close. There is a whole world in there going on you will miss. 
Not sure which type these babies are, Neo's or baubalti; but, with the milling around of baubalti on this side of tank I am guessing that it is most likely this off-spring. 

This time next year maybe Ill be able to send these guys to those interested. Ha!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Viewed a very pretty shrimp ( too me, anyways) I wanted to share. Looks like it is loaded with eggs. But, is a nice dark color contrasted with a golden stripe down back. One of the wild-type neo's?
Also, in video, get a good look at my Orange otocinclus and crazy little fish hoarde. 

https://vimeo.com/351934872?activityReferer=1


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I *think* that's a neo.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Im really wondering--- is this _fun _anymore. 
Maybe I need to just move on.


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Discusluv said:


> Im really wondering--- is this _fun _anymore.
> Maybe I need to just move on.


Confused. Are you unhappy with something?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Of course it's fun!

Discus, shrimp, M. kubotai. They're all tons of fun.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Of course it's fun!
> 
> Discus, shrimp, M. kubotai. They're all tons of fun.


 Yes, just need to keep myself focused on the people/journals that I come back here for.
My friends.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

And (and this is a big 'And') you need to keep focused on the part or parts of the hobby that relax(es) you the most. Do less of the stuff you dislike and more of the stuff you really enjoy.

For me, it's watching hideous plants turn into something that makes me feel something resembling appreciation mixed with pride. It's watching shrimp go about their daily lives. Discovering tons of copepods I didn't know were in a tank. Watching big, beautiful fish like Discus or even Oscars develop discernible personalities (for lack of a better term.) Learning about something as common as Rainbows - a fish I thought I disliked but now kinda covet.

Heck, sometimes the relaxation and joy comes from something as generic as watching water ripple across the top of a tank after having a terrible day. Or researching inert substrate options. (Who knew aggregates and sand were so interesting?!)

There's even relaxation to be found in reading along with someone's journey as they learn about shrimp or start up a new tank - like this one.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> And (and this is a big 'And') you need to keep focused on the part or parts of the hobby that relax(es) you the most. Do less of the stuff you dislike and more of the stuff you really enjoy.
> 
> For me, it's watching hideous plants turn into something that makes me feel something resembling appreciation mixed with pride. It's watching shrimp go about their daily lives. Discovering tons of copepods I didn't know were in a tank. Watching big, beautiful fish like Discus or even Oscars develop discernible personalities (for lack of a better term.) Learning about something as common as Rainbows - a fish I thought I disliked but now kinda covet.
> 
> ...


 Very true. I haven't looked at my tanks in 3 days, but to drop food in. 

Whats with that?

I need to reconnect because - well, the reasons are obvious. 

Thanks for the perspective.


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

@Discusluv
I honestly do not think it is rare to sway in and out with your tanks. I hadn't been on here in like 3 months, then all of a sudden I was going full flog for my new tanks and everything has exploded again. 
I love this hobby, but in the same breath I am tired of it. 
My suggestion, and this has worked for me amazingly. Find one of your tanks that has been kept the same for a while. Guess what...it's time to redo that tank. Doesn't have to be major, perhaps even just a plant shuffling. Mix it up! 
If you have ever read any of my journals or posts you will see I am an emotional pendulum with my tanks. One second I am captivated and ecstatic, the next I am wanting to cast it off kilimanjaro. It's not like I have even found success with my tanks either! I fail constantly, but it's still fun.
Give it some time, chat some nonsense with us here as well.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

somewhatshocked said:


> There's even relaxation to be found in reading along with someone's journey as they learn about shrimp or start up a new tank - like this one.


No doubt! One of my favorite aspects of this and other aquarium forums is watching people who were struggling "get it right" and then see their success -healthy flourishing tanks. When I had my LFS, there was a gentleman of probably 75 years of age who had tried his hand at saltwater and had the most miserable experience, it was just one nuisance algae after the next and dying corals. He said one day he was ready to get out of the hobby and I told him I would take all of his live rock and surviving damsels and give him Flourite, driftwood, plants, and fish when he was ready in trade. He took me up on it. And picked guppies of all things. Within 6 months he was showing me phone pics of all the pretty guppies he was raising up and had so much pride and enthusiasm. And the other two LFS's in the Asheville area and I were practically fighting over who would get his guppies -those things were bulletproof like guppies used to be when I was a kid. The very existence of this hobby is other's success.

From my own, admittedly myopic perspective I sometimes don't understand why this hobby isn't huge. I mean, almost *everybody* could enjoy keeping *something* in an aquarium and there's a whole planet full of aquatic flora and fauna to choose from. But when I got a 6 year taste from the perspective of selling them for a living, I saw so so many people leave the hobby over failure. And every one of them will tell people they know how hard fishkeeping is -which will deter others from ever trying. I wish I still had my old store website to link. I had pages on animals I wouldn't sell and why -and a few (mostly terrestrial) plants. But when my customers would show me their tank photos, I'd often have to say, "That's a peace lily, that fish is literally dyed, that African cichlid needs to go, fiddler crabs don't live underwater, your blue ribbon eel won't live 30 days without live food, can't put a seahorse in a high flow reef tank (I could go on for pages with examples)" because someone at another store said it would be fine. Sure, there are some people who are destined for failure because they want pacu and have a 10 gallon and won't be told otherwise, but many people whose lives could be enriched by our hobby are turned off because they are given either bad information or tried to keep things _far_ beyond their experience level. And still in many cases led to believe their care was simpler than it really is by often well-meaning employees. It is absolutely on the person who purchases a living thing to research how it should be properly cared for. But we all know that most of the general populace is either too lazy, too ignorant (by the literal definition), too trusting in the salesperson, or I'll go out on a limb and say -often is afraid that if they Google it, they will realize it isn't ideal and they want it badly enough to suspend reason and take the "I'll cross that bridge when I get to it" attitude. But every time those stores sell things that die on people, they are losing generations of customers in my view. And that's generations of what could have been hobbyists contributing to us all.

/rant


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Jamo33 said:


> @*Discusluv*
> I honestly do not think it is rare to sway in and out with your tanks. I hadn't been on here in like 3 months, then all of a sudden I was going full flog for my new tanks and everything has exploded again.
> I love this hobby, but in the same breath I am tired of it.
> My suggestion, and this has worked for me amazingly. Find one of your tanks that has been kept the same for a while. Guess what...it's time to redo that tank. Doesn't have to be major, perhaps even just a plant shuffling. Mix it up!
> ...


 Thanks, Jamo. 

The shrimp have been keeping me inspired where my fish tanks have kinda bored me. With the 30 gallon shrimp tank humming along and the 9 gallon cycling for shrimp, the dive into learning something new has refreshed my perspective on my aquariums. The shift from the macro into the micro approach ( from 4-8 inch cichlids, which has been my life for the past 18 years to the minuteness of these creatures) has helped me regain some wonder that I have lost along the way. 

I am also going to start a breeding project soon for my African tetras- that ought to help.


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## Shrubbery (Jul 1, 2019)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> No doubt! One of my favorite aspects of this and other aquarium forums is watching people who were struggling "get it right" and then see their success -healthy flourishing tanks. When I had my LFS, there was a gentleman of probably 75 years of age who had tried his hand at saltwater and had the most miserable experience, it was just one nuisance algae after the next and dying corals. He said one day he was ready to get out of the hobby and I told him I would take all of his live rock and surviving damsels and give him Flourite, driftwood, plants, and fish when he was ready in trade. He took me up on it. And picked guppies of all things. Within 6 months he was showing me phone pics of all the pretty guppies he was raising up and had so much pride and enthusiasm. And the other two LFS's in the Asheville area and I were practically fighting over who would get his guppies -those things were bulletproof like guppies used to be when I was a kid. The very existence of this hobby is other's success.
> 
> From my own, admittedly myopic perspective I sometimes don't understand why this hobby isn't huge. I mean, almost *everybody* could enjoy keeping *something* in an aquarium and there's a whole planet full of aquatic flora and fauna to choose from. But when I got a 6 year taste from the perspective of selling them for a living, I saw so so many people leave the hobby over failure. And every one of them will tell people they know how hard fishkeeping is -which will deter others from ever trying. I wish I still had my old store website to link. I had pages on animals I wouldn't sell and why -and a few (mostly terrestrial) plants. But when my customers would show me their tank photos, I'd often have to say, "That's a peace lily, that fish is literally dyed, that African cichlid needs to go, fiddler crabs don't live underwater, your blue ribbon eel won't live 30 days without live food, can't put a seahorse in a high flow reef tank (I could go on for pages with examples)" because someone at another store said it would be fine. Sure, there are some people who are destined for failure because they want pacu and have a 10 gallon and won't be told otherwise, but many people whose lives could be enriched by our hobby are turned off because they are given either bad information or tried to keep things _far_ beyond their experience level. And still in many cases led to believe their care was simpler than it really is by often well-meaning employees. It is absolutely on the person who purchases a living thing to research how it should be properly cared for. But we all know that most of the general populace is either too lazy, too ignorant (by the literal definition), too trusting in the salesperson, or I'll go out on a limb and say -often is afraid that if they Google it, they will realize it isn't ideal and they want it badly enough to suspend reason and take the "I'll cross that bridge when I get to it" attitude. But every time those stores sell things that die on people, they are losing generations of customers in my view. And that's generations of what could have been hobbyists contributing to us all.
> 
> /rant


This is incredibly well-said.

I also believe the converse is also true. Peoples' passion and interest are just as contagious as their failures and demoralization.

For me, I am diving into shrimp now in large part because of peoples' excitement and delight over these little creatures, which I learned to share, through threads like this one.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Discusluv said:


> Thanks, Jamo.
> 
> The shrimp have been keeping me inspired where my fish tanks have kinda bored me. With the 30 gallon shrimp tank humming along and the 9 gallon cycling for shrimp, the dive into learning something new has refreshed my perspective on my aquariums. The shift from the macro into the micro approach ( from 4-8 inch cichlids, which has been my life for the past 18 years to the minuteness of these creatures) has helped me regain some wonder that I have lost along the way.


The coolest thing about this hobby is that you can never exhaust its possibilities. I'm 50 years old and got into the hobby as a young kid, never yet taken a full break (never not had tanks in my house). Tried the LFS life for several years. And I still see species on here that I've never seen in person. You couldn't get around to keeping everything in a lifetime if you worked for Seagrest Farms. Let alone really learning them. That's the best part, propagating something you're enthusiastic about and learning things by "feel" for lack of a better word. But I feel where you're coming from, I wouldn't take for free what used to be my holy grail fish; I've done seahorses successfully for a time and am over them, for example. But I'm pouring over tanks with a magnifying glass to look at simple freshwater shrimp every night ten years later. Think I'm drawn to that which takes the least care almost! 


Discusluv said:


> I am also going to start a breeding project soon for my African tetras- that ought to help.


Nice. Nothing like watching things you brought into the world grow!


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Discusluv said:


> Thanks Jamo.
> 
> The shrimp have been keeping me inspired where my fish tanks have kinda bored me. With the 30 gallon shrimp tank humming along and the 9 gallon cycling for shrimp, the dive into learning something new has refreshed my perspective on my aquariums. The shift from the macro into the micro approach ( from 4-8 inch cichlids, which has been my life for the past 18 years to the minuteness of these creatures) has helped me regain some wonder that I have lost along the way.
> 
> I am also going to start a breeding project soon for my African tetras- that ought to help.


You know, the one thing I now know is that there is so much of this hobby I haven't even tried to explore. Shrimp being one of them, I am trying but living situations are messed up and things aren't lending themselves to many tanks. So I must live vicariously through you all pretty much. 

Side note, excited for the tetra breeding!! I hope you will document that as well!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> The coolest thing about this hobby is that you can never exhaust its possibilities. I'm 50 years old and got into the hobby as a young kid, never yet taken a full break (never not had tanks in my house). Tried the LFS life for several years. And I still see species on here that I've never seen in person. You couldn't get around to keeping everything in a lifetime if you worked for Seagrest Farms. Let alone really learning them. That's the best part, propagating something you're enthusiastic about and learning things by "feel" for lack of a better word. But I feel where you're coming from, I wouldn't take for free what used to be my holy grail fish; I've done seahorses successfully for a time and am over them, for example. But I'm pouring over tanks with a magnifying glass to look at simple freshwater shrimp every night ten years later. Think I'm drawn to that which takes the least care almost!
> 
> 
> Nice. Nothing like watching things you brought into the world grow!


 Ive always "kept" fish- well, for a few decades anyway. I was challenged to keep those that needed the most care: discus, altum angels, geophagus. 

The pride was in a difficult fish that was healthy through my care. Consistency- week in and week out. The weekly, sometimes daily water change was therapeutic and gratifying for me. 

Now, I dont want to just "keep" fish. I want to breed them. Especially fish that are threatened and rare in the hobby. The fish of the Congo rivers and tributaries are rare because of the embattled, dangerous area they come from. Not much collection from here- it is sporadic and expensive to get fish. I would be so happy to actually breed these fish so others could share in how amazing they are. I have 35 of these rare Congo tetras- 18.00- 35.00 a piece. I want to breed them and send them out to others for the cost of shipping. At this point- that would be the most gratifying. 

Keeping shrimp is still strange to me. I walk past the tank and want to "do something" to it: feed them, change their water, "keep them". But, really, they are pretty much "hands off." I find myself looking for details: Are their babies? Berried shrimp? Am I feeding enough, too much? How are the walls- algae growth? You are required to look close.

I am not a detail type of person, I often look for big picture patterns; so, this is against the grain to sit on my hands and peer in.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I get the most excited when I find a new baby fish in a tank. Makes my day.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

That made something kinda click for me.

That's probably why detail-oriented people spend so much time fiddling with stuff on the front side of keeping shrimp. Because we can't really do much on the back side beyond watching and enjoying. The only plants we have to trim are moss and that happens, what, every month or two? So our options are to precisely measure mineral blends, keeping RO/DI water, making sure we can cool things down if necessary, focusing on buffering substrates, etc.

When you're able to constantly tinker around, get to feed live or frozen foods, have to focus on figuring out if your fish can be conditioned to breed, measuring fertilizer, making sure your crays aren't destroying your scape, repositioning hardware because your oscar is a moody beast, constantly trimming plants and all of that on the back side (made myself chuckle by saying "back side" but hopefully people know what I mean)... you don't really want or need to focus on nearly as much on the front side. 

Maybe that's the trade-off? Or at least one of the trade-offs?



Discusluv said:


> I am not a detail type of person, I often look for big picture patterns; so, this is against the grain to sit on my hands and peer in.


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## Shrubbery (Jul 1, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> That made something kinda click for me.
> 
> That's probably why detail-oriented people spend so much time fiddling with stuff on the front side of keeping shrimp. Because we can't really do much on the back side beyond watching and enjoying. The only plants we have to trim are moss and that happens, what, every month or two? So our options are to precisely measure mineral blends, keeping RO/DI water, making sure we can cool things down if necessary, focusing on buffering substrates, etc.
> 
> ...


I can definitely see myself in that. Having come from mainly fish, even in my saltwater days, there was always something I needed to be 'doing' - as you say, checking the health and condition of the fish, the structure of the aquascape, finding and catching mantis shrimp (and I am totally going to have a mantis shrimp tank again... ack... another project... SQUIRREL!), checking salinity, monitoring aggression, and so on. 

It does feel very strange to have two tanks in particular where I really don't have that much to do. I have some plants beyond the mosses that need trimming once in a while (but those are Walstad tanks, so growth is not CO2-infused fast). At first, I was probably putting my hands in the tank too much, almost with busy work.

Now, I am learning to enjoy the relaxation of just sitting back with a sip of whiskey and watching the inhabitants of my tanks go about their lives. It took a while, though!


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Makes me feel ready for a shrimp tank again. Not having much to do but scratch my back side has its attractions.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

OVT said:


> Makes me feel ready for a shrimp tank again. Not having much to do but scratch my back side has its attractions.


 I can give you some of my zebras! They are having babies 
I would say increasing at a better rate than the neo's. Maybe because of my water parameters.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

For them to breed as quickly as they have means you've got a lot going for you in terms of shrimping. Neos may take a while longer. I've had some Neos that only bred a few times per year in the past. Others? Seems like every month.

Really glad you've chosen to house the shrimp you have in this tank. Wild-types and Babaulti just aren't that common. Being able to breed Babaulti is especially exciting. Can't wait to see how that population grows.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> For them to breed as quickly as they have means you've got a lot going for you in terms of shrimping. Neos may take a while longer. I've had some Neos that only bred a few times per year in the past. Others? Seems like every month.
> 
> Really glad you've chosen to house the shrimp you have in this tank. Wild-types and Babaulti just aren't that common. Being able to breed Babaulti is especially exciting. Can't wait to see how that population grows.


 Thank you 
I missed this post somehow. 



Im not doing that great, actually- found two dead shrimp in Java fern yesterday. Immediately changed 30% of water ( added back slowly).
The problem was the filter had lost suction because I needed to rinse off the sponge pre-filter- it had clogged and the filter itself was not working. Build-up of nitrAtes? 

I really need to work on a solution for a prefilter that doesnt demand a rinse every day and will still protect the shrimp from going into the filter. Its just not practical for me to have to fuss with something daily. 

Right now, I replaced the sponge filter with a mesh bag that I use for bio-media in canister filter. The mesh is fine enough to allow water through, but I think not so fine that it will quickly clog- lose suction to filter.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

@somewhatshocked
Look! I know its really hard to see in here, but look at all these shrimp babies in video. It brings me joy! 
I guess I could wipe the sides of the glass, but i worry that Ill wipe an itty bitty shrimp in process.

There are even more babies throughout aquarium- not a horde, but a couple here and there. I am very happy with the way they are increasing so far. 


https://vimeo.com/353675772


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Wow, they're more colorful than I expected. You're probably going to have a good mix of Neos based on the coloration in that video. Reds, browns, etc. The tank will look really cool as more wild-types show up.

The Kubotai have really brightened up as well. They look a lot less skittish than they were a week or so ago.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Wow, they're more colorful than I expected. You're probably going to have a good mix of Neos based on the coloration in that video. Reds, browns, etc. The tank will look really cool as more wild-types show up.
> 
> The Kubotai have really brightened up as well. They look a lot less skittish than they were a week or so ago.


 Im so glad you could see them in the video! :smile2:

I know, where did that red guy come from?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Update!

Lookie the shrimp hoarding around Jake's Nom Nom food! Manja!
It's delicioso magnifique! (Smack)


If you will notice, I put in a big ugly sponge for prefilter. Yes, I know it is an eyesore; but, I have found the shrimp congregate on this area and feed. It must be good for them- so the bigger the better if the shrimp prefer it. [shrug].

I also took a close-up of a very pretty buce I picked up from recommendation- Rosemary. I think its about 1:40 in. If make it to end will see the cutest little Orange oto's evah. 

https://vimeo.com/354430432


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

You'll grow to be okay with sponges in your shrimp tanks. They're always where your critters will congregate and it's likely where you'll first notice shrimplets.

Speaking of shrimplets... looks like you've got a few berried mamas!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> You'll grow to be okay with sponges in your shrimp tanks. They're always where your critters will congregate and it's likely where you'll first notice shrimplets.
> 
> Speaking of shrimplets... looks like you've got a few berried mamas!


 Yippee!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Forgot to ask this last night but have you been able to get an idea of how many juvenile shrimp you've now got in the tank?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Forgot to ask this last night but have you been able to get an idea of how many juvenile shrimp you've now got in the tank?


I think any amount that I would give would be so speculative. But, Ill speculate 

At any time in the day I can concentrate on areas of the tank and see at least 8-10 babies milling around. 

At first ( a couple weeks ago- and in far fewer numbers) they looked like the caradina species- I really didnt see any neo juveniles at all. 

The following week I saw a little more caradina. 

This week- an explosion of neo's in larger numbers than the caradina. Lots of different colors- blue, red, clear. 

So, I would say at minimum- 10 babies. But, I would say the more accurate number would be double that, because are you really going to see them all at any one time. 

With that, Ill speculate at 20 babies.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

If you want to count your shrimp babies more accurately try feeding them Jake's Growth shrimp feed. The green powder food.
EEK! They are crawling out of all the corners and onto the walls- LOL!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I am going to get the R/O going this week. 
Recently have come to learn my water parameters are pretty erratic after sharing my water report-- so it is a necessity for all my fish/shrimp that I get it up and going soon. 
I ordered this Brute garbage can and lid for now. For time being, Ill just use this for making R/O on the day need it-- and not for storing water. It is large enough in capacity that I can use it for water changes for all but my 180 gallon tank. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P0S0YSU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can do my discus tank 2 x weekly with 40 gallon change each time.
And 1 x weekly my 2- 30 gallons and 9 gallon. 

If this works out well, Ill then get another can for the 180 gallon. 

Issues:


The Brute can needs to go outside. Ill need to haul water in with bucket through sliding glass door. Fine with smaller tanks. May just be too impractical for 180 gallon. 
Water temperature control. I have heaters to heat water; but, how efficient will this be outside in summer/winter? Should I insulate somehow? 
I dont have the ability/skill to make a fancy R/O unit storage space so is it okay to just put the different R/O membranes in a 5 gallon bucket while using/not using? 
Being that I am- for the time being- just making water for same day use, I do not need a pump to circulate water correct? I can--- I have an air pump/air-stone.
@somewhatshocked @Blue Ridge Reef


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

You probably don't even need to circulate water. I just do because mine sits for a long time. If it's going to sit for days/weeks on end? Stick an airstone or pump on a timer to kick on occasionally. 

About carrying water... could you get a cheap pump and a hose barb to attach to some tubing? That would allow you to pump water from your storage can to where ever you're mixing it. Since you're doing large changes, it may be a good idea to keep a spare can that you use just for mixing up water. Maybe keep a pump + hose in your mixing can to make changes go faster. That's what I do. It both mixes the mineral salts up with the water and I can lift the hose out of the can and into my tanks or other containers.

Keeping it outside in the heat will likely be your biggest problem. Do you have *any* space at all inside where you could stash a can? Or even a smaller 20gal Brute can? Closet? Hallway? Even temporarily? At least during the hotter months. Cooling water down is frustrating. You could stick a couple frozen gallon jugs of water into your storage container to cool things down, I suppose.

In the winter, it probably won't be a big deal because you likely won't be dealing with the kind of temperatures I think of when someone says "winter" = usually constantly below freezing. As long as you're above freezing or can keep the cans above freezing, they'll be fine. Water heats up quickly once it's inside.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

So, actually, I need another can of size ( say, a 20 gallon) to mix the water/minerals in. [Im talking to you while thinking...]

So, I should get another 20 gallon slim brute can that can keep inside for mixed water. Ill, then, need a hose that will reach from the 44 gallon brute outside to the 20 gallon Brute can that keep inside. Can I use my Python hose?- that may reach- the python has an attachment on end of it to connect to water faucet in kitchen. 
This one is on sale:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013CM0K...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

I need a pump with a hose barb to attach to python. 
Would this one work?

https://www.amazon.com/Superior-Pum...011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&s=industrial&sr=1-3


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

A cheap $10-20 pump would do the trick since you won't need to lift water up any great height. Many of the cheap pumps come with different attachments that allow for the easy use of various hoses and tubing.

Python may work. Could even use a cheap water hose to transport water. I just think it's easier than carrying 5gal buckets. Really nice to have a bucket or large can right near your tank when mixing up water because it speeds things up.

When your mixing container isn't in use, it's great to be able to stash it out of the way. When I'm not using my 20gal Brute cans for mixing up water, I store all kinds of stuff in them - empty buckets, extra pumps, towels, siphons, all that kind of stuff. My can at home holds all of that stuff and it gets placed in a corner of my sunroom with a tablecloth over it. No one has a clue it's actually a trash can that comes out once a week for water changes.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> A cheap $10-20 pump would do the trick since you won't need to lift water up any great height. Many of the cheap pumps come with different attachments that allow for the easy use of various hoses and tubing.
> 
> Python may work. Could even use a cheap water hose to transport water. I just think it's easier than carrying 5gal buckets. Really nice to have a bucket or large can right near your tank when mixing up water because it speeds things up.
> 
> When your mixing container isn't in use, it's great to be able to stash it out of the way. When I'm not using my 20gal Brute cans for mixing up water, I store all kinds of stuff in them - empty buckets, extra pumps, towels, siphons, all that kind of stuff. My can at home holds all of that stuff and it gets placed in a corner of my sunroom with a tablecloth over it. No one has a clue it's actually a trash can that comes out once a week for water changes.


 Okay, thanks for the assistance. This helps so much--- your the best.

Ill get a cheaper pump and some tubing. 

And this trashcan for inside.


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## straha20 (Sep 1, 2016)

Discusluv said:


> Okay, thanks for the assistance. This helps so much--- your the best.
> 
> Ill get a cheaper pump and some tubing.
> 
> And this trashcan for inside.


Here is the pump I use for my water changes on my big tank...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E9IO748/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Sure easier than lifting buckets. It works fantastically, and moves a lot of water. It has multiple sized barbs, and I just use bulk vinyl tubing from Lowes. I have a 20 gallon tote that I put in the bathtub to fill, and I didn't bother putting the suction cups that come with the pump on the pump. I just plop it into the tote, plug it in, and fill.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

straha20 said:


> Here is the pump I use for my water changes...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E9IO748/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Sure easier than lifting buckets. It works fantastically, and moves a lot of water. It has multiple sized barbs, and I just use bulk vinyl tubing from Lowes.


Thank you- thats a great price


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I don't know Elk Grove's weather or your house layout/husband's opposition to the unit taking up home real estate/whatever the factors may be but... I think I would burn out on hauling 5 gallon buckets of water by hand really quickly. And even with a pump, there's a little more work involved the further from your aquariums to storage tanks are. After every water change I lift tubing over my head to gravity feed the water in my hose back into the storage tanks every time I'm done. And "stuff" grows in that tubing over time so it will need cleaned periodically -the less tubing to clean the better IMO. Your summers and winters are likely much more mild than my own but outdoor storage sounds like a less than ideal solution. Storms, weather extremes and such still happen. Not trying to poo-poo your idea, just thinking out loud. Nothing worse than going through the trouble of setting something complicated up and then deciding you need to change it. Water storage needn't take up a ton of space, my 270 gallons of storage would fit inside of a typical bedroom closet. I would endeavor to get the RO unit and water storage as close to each other and the aquariums they will be used on as is practical.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I don't know Elk Grove's weather or your house layout/husband's opposition to the unit taking up home real estate/whatever the factors may be but... I think I would burn out on hauling 5 gallon buckets of water by hand really quickly. And even with a pump, there's a little more work involved the further from your aquariums to storage tanks are. After every water change I lift tubing over my head to gravity feed the water in my hose back into the storage tanks every time I'm done. And "stuff" grows in that tubing over time so it will need cleaned periodically -the less tubing to clean the better IMO. Your summers and winters are likely much more mild than my own but outdoor storage sounds like a less than ideal solution. Storms, weather extremes and such still happen. Not trying to poo-poo your idea, just thinking out loud. Nothing worse than going through the trouble of setting something complicated up and then deciding you need to change it. Water storage needn't take up a ton of space, my 270 gallons of storage would fit inside of a typical bedroom closet. I would endeavor to get the RO unit and water storage as close to each other and the aquariums they will be used on as is practical.


I do not have a husband that shares my enthusiasm for fish/shrimp keeping so all changes I make come with heated negotiations. 

I got a garbage can for outside ( will order a smaller container for mixing) and will haul buckets of R/O water for my shrimp tanks, 30 gallon breeder, and 60 gallon discus.
No, not ideal- but, all I can negotiate for now.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

If you don't have a dolly, snag one of these the next time you're near Harbor Freight. 

Makes moving heavy buckets and cans a lot easier.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> If you don't have a dolly, snag one of these the next time you're near Harbor Freight.
> 
> Makes moving heavy buckets and cans a lot easier.


I actually have one of those already!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Some thoughts and observations:

I have been experimenting with feeding: frequency and amount : for the shrimp - trying to gauge how much to feed them and how often. 
I noticed that when I did that survey of questions for shrimp-keeping that many of those who responded warned about feeding the shrimp too much. 
So, I wanted to really evaluate how much/often I should be feeding. 

I haven't come to any conclusions yet; but I didn't feed any shrimp foods for 3 days. The only food was the small pinch of fish food daily that I feed the fish - which leaves little for the shrimp when all is said and done. 
I also tried to evaluate where the shrimp collected over this time to see where they were getting supplemental nutrition. The neo's spend a great deal of their time among the moss, on pre-sponge, and along the back wall where there is a build-up of brown and green algae. 

The baubalti, in contrast, spend much more time in the front of the tank at substrate level ( in and around corners where sand meets glass) and, in general, along the side of the tank of highest flow and oxygenation. Again, more at substrate-level. Which is interesting. They also appear to be more social with one another than the neo's. Congregating loosely in these spaces. 
They also appear to hide ( especially very young and berried females) more under wood, in crevices of rocks, under and around larger leaves of plants ( as opposed to around moss) than the neo's. When sit very still, can watch a berried female come from under wood or large leafed plants to seek out food. These females are very watchful and will scurry quickly back under rock or plant when see motion in front of tank. As a rule, are not easily seen. They hide much more than the female, berried neo's. 

When I drop food into glass petrie dish, the baubalti are the first ones to "come a'runnin". Maybe, because they are more in front and smell it faster? 

Anyways- back to feeding: today I got a much bigger swarm of shrimp when dropped in food ( after 3 days not feeding). I think Ill continue to do this- feed every three days- and see how it goes. 

Swarm:









Forgot what kind of Crypt this is, but it is so pretty. 










Aponogeton of some sort? I think. The Orange otocinclus like to feed on the along leaves:


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

@somewhatshocked-- Doesnt it look like the shrimp that are in the feeding dish in last post are all or mostly baubalti?


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Looks like C. lutea on the crypt, I'd never venture an ID on Aponogeton. 

As for shrimp feeding, in my more sparsely populated tanks I feed twice weekly. So right on the schedule you have going. Just let the numbers and how fast they swarm food be your guide.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Look like babaulti to me. Exciting to see their numbers increase, isn't it?

I'm not sure I have a set feeding schedule for my shrimp tanks.. Some get fed every other day. Some twice in the same day when numbers are high. Some a couple times per week. Like @Blue Ridge Reef says, you have to let each tank be your guide.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Look like babaulti to me. Exciting to see their numbers increase, isn't it?
> 
> I'm not sure I have a set feeding schedule for my shrimp tanks.. Some get fed every other day. Some twice in the same day when numbers are high. Some a couple times per week. Like @Blue Ridge Reef says, you have to let each tank be your guide.




Yes!! It’s very exciting to see them increase! 
Okay, thanks for insight on feeding. I’ll keep attempting to find that balance. 


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Looks like C. lutea on the crypt, I'd never venture an ID on Aponogeton.
> 
> As for shrimp feeding, in my more sparsely populated tanks I feed twice weekly. So right on the schedule you have going. Just let the numbers and how fast they swarm food be your guide.




Thanks! 
I think you are right about the crypt identification. [emoji4]


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I am putting my GH/KH and TDS down here more to keep a journal of these numbers ( sorry, dont want to bore you to tears) for this tank as I try to adjust them to suit both the Babaulti and wild neo's. 

TDS 150
KH 3
GH 4

There appears to be not as many neo's in here at this point as there are Babaulti. Which is odd, because I put 10 Babaulti and 30 wild neos in here to begin with. Im thinking it may be because the KH/GH has been too low for the neo's to thrive. I used the Salty Shrimp KH/GH remineralizer on this tank the last time I did a water change ( I thought I had used equilibrium, but I had made a note of it that I had used the Salty Shrimp KH/GH.)

In all my tanks the KH has been at 1-- very low and concerning, but I never have any problems with my fish because of it. But, shrimp, that could be a different story. So, the last time I added the Salty Shrimp I didn't know what I was doing- did it improperly. No big surprise there. 

So, this time when I change my water I will make the water from my water change KH 3 and GH 6. Hopefully this will make the neo's rebound.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

It had only been 5 days, but did another water change so I could work on adjusting these parameters to better reflect what is good for both the neo's and Zebras. Now, after water change and using GH/KH remineralizer, the parameters are:

TDS 179
pH 7.2- 7.4 ( kinda in-between somewhere)
KH 3
GH 6

I think this is about perfect and what I should try to maintain isn't it @somewhatshocked ?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I like those parameters for Neos & Babaulti. You could even go up to gH 7 over time and that'd be what I consider the sweet spot for my tanks.

But yep, looks good to me. Slowly but surely wins the race.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> I like those parameters for Neos & Babaulti. You could even go up to gH 7 over time and that'd be what I consider the sweet spot for my tanks.
> 
> But yep, looks good to me. Slowly but surely wins the race.




Awesome thanks! I’ll edge that gh up slowly.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Edged the GH to 7 over the last 10 or so days as recommended. 
And, with the exception of feeding the fish daily a smidgen, haven't given it much attention. I must admit-- I didnt even directly feed the shrimp. However, the population appears to me to be growing- humming right along. Especially the c. babaulti.
The plants are all doing really well in here, if anything I need to thin out some wisteria, ambula, and duckweed taking over the top water level. 

Here is a quick video:

Do you see neo's in here or just babaulti? 
https://vimeo.com/371233879


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Since no one has answered I'll share a semi/half-educated guess. Pretty sure I'm seeing Neos in that video. Take that with a grain of salt since I don't keep baubalti yet, so don't have first-hand experience spending hours staring at them! But I see a cull-grade red rili right of the center when the video starts as well as a yellowish one. And right about the one minute mark, to the lower left of the driftwood, there's a grayish one that looks very Neo to my eye. My degree of certainty is not enough that I'd bet real American dollars though.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Since no one has answered I'll share a semi/half-educated guess. Pretty sure I'm seeing Neos in that video. Take that with a grain of salt since I don't keep baubalti yet, so don't have first-hand experience spending hours staring at them! But I see a cull-grade red rili right of the center when the video starts as well as a yellowish one. And right about the one minute mark, to the lower left of the driftwood, there's a grayish one that looks very Neo to my eye. My degree of certainty is not enough that I'd bet real American dollars though.


Excellent, thank you! Im glad that they are surviving, then. 99% of them are cull grade, lol! But, this is my "go wild" tank.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Update!

This tank has pretty much been taken over by shrimp because I moved the emerald rasboras to another tank. Now, the only fish are two Orange Otocinclus. Been changing around 20% of water weekly. Feeding 2x weekly with OM Nom foods- Veggie or Kale, 1 x weekly with a spinach leaf from freezer, and 1 x weekly with a very small bit of either Shrimp Growth or Shrimp fit ( pencil-head size). 

The tank gets one dose of Thrive ( Low-tech version) weekly and fertilized in substrate around plants with Jake's homemade fertilizer tabs. Have had excellent growth of plants with these tabs 





















PS The only thing that hasn't done well in this tank is the fissedens moss on branch. I took branch out and will try again with a different type of moss soon.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I keep forgetting all the different foods available to me to feed the shrimp. I haven't fed any leaves for weeks!
Kind of got in a rut of feeding spinach, a bit of a powdered food, and veggie shrimp food and forgot all the other options available. 
I put a catulpa leaf in all the tanks. The shrimp in the 30 gallon went bonkers and had a party. 

Hey, quick question --- do you see that big pre-sponge that I have on my filter in last post? 
Well, yesterday I did a water change and after assessing the water flow ( it was still very good) I decided not to take it out and rinse it so to not disturb all the shrimp on there. It is amazing but this sponge is a huge draw to the shrimp and they congregate here...
I imagine that it grows a lot of biofilm, has various critters, etc... in which they feed. 
Anyways, should I clean this every week regardless of flow? Is that what you do?


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Shrimp love foam! I would encourage you to let them take care of it unless it gets clogged.

Cheers


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Great looking tank DL, I like it! 

Are you going to the SAS meeting this Sat? I'll be there, so if you're there it'd be fun to catch up with everything.

I wonder if @OVT will be there?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Great looking tank DL, I like it!
> 
> Are you going to the SAS meeting this Sat? I'll be there, so if you're there it'd be fun to catch up with everything.
> 
> I wonder if @*OVT* will be there?


 Thanks Ken 
John and I will be there! Im really looking forward to this presentation on photography. I need all the help I can get. 

I dont think Oleg will be there. I have sent him messages through the forum but have not heard anything from him. I hope all is well.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I love a good shrimp tank. They are so undemanding in a low tech tank. Just occassionally sprinkle some food and watch them multiply.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Discusluv said:


> Anyways, should I clean this every week regardless of flow? Is that what you do?


I use stainless steel mesh in most but do have 3 tanks using sponges over intakes. I used to clean mine every Thursday with 10% water changes like clockwork, but have been doing what you are lately, waiting until the flow seems to be getting compromised. It's definitely a congregation area and if it's feeding them, then I'm inclined to leave it in there longer these days. Not sure it *really* matters either way, but I stay on top of these so it's not a risk of clogging up or causing problems.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I use stainless steel mesh in most but do have 3 tanks using sponges over intakes. I used to clean mine every Thursday with 10% water changes like clockwork, but have been doing what you are lately, waiting until the flow seems to be getting compromised. It's definitely a congregation area and if it's feeding them, then I'm inclined to leave it in there longer these days. Not sure it *really* matters either way, but I stay on top of these so it's not a risk of clogging up or causing problems.


Okay, thanks, I think I will leave them and clean every couple weeks and see how it goes.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

My goal is to always squeeze out my sponge filters if I can easily do so during water changes. But real talk? They get squeezed out when they're so clogged up they _*have*_ to be squeezed out.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Oh boy! We have _a lot_ more shrimp in here ---
Fighting over @somewhatshocked 's mulberry food. They are putting their elbows into it- lol!




https://vimeo.com/379853087


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Been doing very small water changes over last few weeks in this tank. 10-15 %.
This week the TDS was at 309 when tested before water change. A lot higher than the normal week rise from 250 to 275-85.
I am thinking it may be because my water changes have been smaller and I haven't taken the sponge out to clean it.

I was testing how long it would take for the sponge to become clogged and the filter lose flow. It had lost some flow- minimally- but, so negligible an amount that it wasnt necessary to clean the sponge. This sponge is enormous though-- maybe that has something to do with it.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I added some of the Vals that Chip gave me to this tank, gave it some nice depth. The wild neo's and C. babaulti have really increased in here- especially the babaulti. Sometime I need to get a macro-lens so I can get some pictures of the shrimp.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I can see fry all over the back wall, that's going to be a full tank in a few months!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I can see fry all over the back wall, that's going to be a full tank in a few months!


Its weird because the neo's stay on the back wall and sponge and the babaulti stay more on substrate level and plants.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Well this journal has sure been neglected.

The new news is that, after a string of deaths of my Royal Blue tigers on active soil in the Fluval V, Ive added them to this tank. 
The first day I took out 5 Tigers from the Fluvel V; but, in following days I was able to bring 5 more out of the woodwork. So lost 5/15 in the past few months. Im not sure it was due to the active soil, but trying them on the sand to eliminate this as a cause. 

I also ordered 9 more and received them today--- added them to this tank as well. These Royal Blue tigers are my favorite shrimp- I will not give up! 
Here is a quick video ( not a great one, like always) of the 30 gallon with tigers, c. babaulti 'zebra', and wild neos. 

https://vimeo.com/396843191


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The tigers seem to have transitioned well to this tank with the babaulti and wild neos. Now, hopefully, Ill see some shrimplets soon! Cross-fingers! 
Here is a quick video:


https://vimeo.com/398073558


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