# My never-ending debacle of a Mini M tank...rescaped 8/01/2008!



## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

You need to add co2 if your running those lights, and maybe more faster growing plants


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Yowza!!!!

It would probably be worth while to do some water changes for a few days (15% daily) until you can clear some of that out. A UV sterilizer would help with the problem but shouldn't be necessary if you do some prudent water changes. 

It's probably time to cut down your photo period. Most seem to recommend less than 10 hours. You can even break that up into 2 sections if you are like me and like to watch the tank at night when you come home. With that kind of light the ricca shouldn't be having 'lack of light' issues. I would guess that the problem of browning lies somewhere else in the 'food chain'. You can always take a clipping of ricca and put in a glass next to a window if you are concerned that the ricca in your tank is going to die, that way you would have some for when your tank is functioning properly. Other than that, I will leave it to the ridiculously knowledgeable experts on this board. 

Good luck!!


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

The reason I did 12 hrs was because that is what ToYoTa does. I just got an automatic timer power strip from Drs Foster and Smith so I should be able to better regulate how much light the tank gets. I don't plan on adding any CO2, other than Excel. 

Let me start trying the daily water changes.


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

The water changes would obviously be a temporary fix. We really need to find out what the underlying problem is to turn that into something beautiful. I believe that with that kind of lighting, co2 and ferts would be necessary. Since you are already adding excel then co2 may be the problem...

I think of this blurb.

"Thus Light and Carbon are the gas pedal …

If you have an aquarium with 5.5 watts per gallon, your plants are going to demand a LOT of CO2 … and if they have enough CO2, they will also need a lot of Macro and Micro Nutrients.

If you have an aquarium with 1.0 watts per gallon, your plants are going to demand less CO2 and somewhat less Macro and Micro Nutrients.

Just like driving a turbo charged Ferrari on a gravel road … if you run out of anything you are likely to crash and burn … thus the Estimative Index is focused on making sure that we do not run out of our Macro and Micro Nutrients …"

It seems to me that we have already crashed and are burning. Without any sort of supplementation it's not surprising that the evil plants are taking over :icon_evil

I do realize that excel is supposed to be a source of carbon but I’m too new at this art to make a very knowledgeable contribution as far as that goes.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

...27 watts of lighting over 5.4 gallons isn't anything too spectacular. You'll probably need to dose Excel.

You have green water from the 12 hour photoperiod. Drop it to 8 hours.

Then run a UV filter, diatom filter, or do a blackout for the green water.


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## Haeun (Mar 9, 2007)

I say 12 hours is too long of a photoperiod. Plants need their rest too.  
I try to go no longer than 10 hours. And if you have really high light, you would have want to go even lower, maybe 5-6 hours. Stick to the 5 hours right now, until the algae goes away. Once you got it under control, you can probably go back to closer to 10 hours.

The rotala and riccia are fairly fast growing plants, but I'm guessing there's not enough of those to "eat up" the excess nutrient. I would recommend stuffing your tank with some more faster growing stems, and cut back on the light hours. You could try cutting the rotala, and replanting it to make a denser bush. 
If those don't work, you may want to check your fertilizing regime, and maybe switch from excel to CO2 (I think I read somewhere that the carbon in CO2 is easier or quicker for the plants to extract?).

Oh, and by all means, do your water changes first and foremost.



P.S. I personally don't think it's necessary to have a UV filter, though a blackout would help control the green water. (No guarantee on the health of the other plants though.) I got rid of green water on one of my 10 gallons by simply doing a huge water change, a blackout for a few days, then lowering the light period to 5.5 hours a day for a while after.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

No, it's not necessary to run a UV filter.

I said there were three options. UV filter, diatom filter, or a blackout.


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## ruki (May 28, 2007)

This sort of thing frequently happens to my smaller containers when I start them up.

There is another option to clear out the green water. I pull the fish and add some daphnia to the tank. They usually multiply until it's totally cleaned up. A bonus is some extra fish food for other tanks.


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## MARIMOBALL (Mar 18, 2007)

I agree with Epic dont go out and spend the extra money on a UV sterilizer. Large water changes, less light photoperiod, or blackout, Excell and maybe add some floating ancharis to soak up the nutrients should help.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Thanks to everyone who responded to the thread. This was almost a year ago but I did a major water change and did a blackout period of 3 days. It got rid of my pea soup and algae problems. However, I neglected the tank and then most of the plants died off, while my shrimp went from 10 to like 100. 

I've recently rescaped the tank and this is what it looks like. I added some manzanita wood I bought from badcopnofishtank. You might not be able to see it but I planted vals nana all along the back. Most of it arrived dead/melted so I had to trim away a lot of it before planting. I've read in a couple of places that vals will melt if using excel. I only dose .5ml a day so I'm hoping that won't harm it. 

I also planted some dwarf lobelia cardinalis in the middle. It arrived mostly melted but I see new little leaves coming out so maybe it will rebound. Obviously in the front, I have some HC. I have a pathetic little java fern plantlet that survived from my original tank tied to one of the branches. I'm hoping to get some needle leaf java fern that I can put in front of the branches on the left side, to cover the rock I'm using to help support the branch. 

For livestock, I have a few cherry shrimp, and 11 microrasboras (6 merah, 4 urophthalmoides, 1 maculatus). I'm waiting for my nerite snail to arrive from planetinverts and it will supposedly be shipped out on Monday. 

I dose .5ml excel everyday and the seachem ferts according to their sample dosing schedule. 

What other plants should I add and where? All comments/suggestions are welcome! I know the picture isn't the clearest. I suck at taking aquarium pictures.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

more pics from different angles. Sorry they aren't the best quality. I'm using a Powershot SD450 =(


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

I think it looks great! good job


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

yeah, i'm subscribing to this thread, i have never had green water (knock on wood) but it sounds pretty annoying


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

clwatkins10 said:


> yeah, i'm subscribing to this thread, i have never had green water (knock on wood) but it sounds pretty annoying


It was pretty bad. You could barely see through it. I no longer have green water but I do have slightly tan water, which I assume is from the aquasoil. Purigen clears it up though.

I'm thinking of adding some Ranunculus Inundatus to the middle section. Or maybe some riccia covered rocks. What do you guys think? Any other plant suggestions?


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

looks beautiful
what filter are you using?


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

monkeyruler90 said:


> looks beautiful
> what filter are you using?


I use the Eheim Ecco 2232. On the box it says it can be used in tanks up to 35 gallons in size but I'm not sure about that =P I have the input and output valves adjusted a little bit so it won't be too strong and blow my fish all over the tank. It works great and I especially like 2 baskets inside the filter that you can store media, Purigen, filter floss, etc. 

For intake/outtake, I use the nano Fluxus pipes from Cal Aqua. They are a great value and I highly recommend them! Quality is the same as the small pipes from ADA, and they cost like 40% as much as the ADA ones. They also come with a suction cup connector whereas the ADA ones do not. The intake pipe is also open at the bottom which I prefer compared to the ADA intake pipe which is closed on the bottom.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

I have the same setup as you except for the lights.
Looks real nice, I think you might end up back where you were before if you are not careful tho...Co2 would be the final fit for this tank but you might get away with excel only.
Keep up on the WC's and cross your fingers


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Thanks mott.

I've actually had the tank set back up for 1-2 months but I just added the manzanita yesterday. I haven't had a problem with green water and I'm pretty sure it won't be coming back. I do however get algae on the glass daily that I have to scrape off and algae on the plants that the shrimp don't seem to have an interest in. :angryfire

I have the lights on a timer from 7am-11am and again at 7pm-11pm. Is that too much? Should I go back to having 1 photoperiod? I am interested in getting CO2 but just don't want to spend hundreds on it right now. I also don't want to do DIY because it's not consistent and can't be hooked up to my timer to be shut off nightly.

The cheapest one I've seen is the red sea one from Doctors F&S. Any other suggestions for a cheap, yet reliable CO2 solution for this sized tank?


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## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

volatile said:


> The cheapest one I've seen is the red sea one from Doctors F&S. Any other suggestions for a cheap, yet reliable CO2 solution for this sized tank?


paintball co2 is not much cheaper and is more in the long run. Jus get a 2.5 or 5 lb cylinder and a reg.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

What is the cheapest I can get a good 2.5lb cylinder and regulator? I assume I would also need a solenoid and then some sort of diffuser and maybe even a drop checker? I can't afford to spend 2-300 on all that equipment right now.

I was looking at the Red Sea Turbo CO2 and I like how inexpensive it is (~$25) and the fact that you can set it on a timer to turn it off. However, It looks like I would have to place the huge diffuser piece inside the aquarium and that would just ruin the aesthetic of my tank, not to mention I have no room for it. As for DIY CO2, Aquaticmagic has some decent looking diffusers, but I don't see any way to automatically turn off the CO2 at night?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

by "turn off co2 at night" are you wanting to conserve co2 or just do you just not want the fish to suffocate, if you dont want the fish to suffocate, just put an airstone on a timer


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Yes, I should have been more clear. I don't want the fish to suffocate at night =) I never thought about the airstone. That might be a good solution, although it means I'd have to run another tube into the tank, and also find a place for the airstone. Thanks clwatkins10!


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Hey there,

You are doing a great job. I wanted to add about the co2. For the last 3 months I've had my 2.5 gallon and it has DIY Co2. But to help at night all what I do is pull the Diffusor close to the water surface. It been working good for me. The fish and snails seem happy.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Hi thief,

I really like your ADA Mini M tank and have been waiting (along with many others I'm sure) to see you fill it out with plants and fish.  

Have you ever forgotten at night to pull the diffuser up? I'm afraid I would forget one night and wake up to a lot of dead fish and shrimp. :icon_roll


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

volatile, check out Orlando's site he has everything you need for that mini-m.
http://www.plantedtank.net/phpAds/www/delivery/ck.php?oaparams=2__bannerid=63__zoneid=7__cb=a42c7d7736__maxdest=http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Well I have forgot about it maybe 5-6 times. No damage was done. But some otos have died but I think that is because I bought them from petco and the fishes aren't all that healthy.

Also thanks for the compliment. I think the main reason for taking things slow s because rushing causes problems and maybe I will send this to the ADA contest next year if it comes out good.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

So I'm finally jumping on the CO2 bandwagon. Originally I was going to go with a paintball CO2 setup since my tank is only 5 galons. However, it was actually cheaper for me to go with the full size setup, and this will also have me covered for if/when I go to a bigger tank.

Here are the things I have purchased. Thanks to roybot73 for giving me lots of advice and information about CO2, including places to buy some of this stuff.

JBJ CO2 regulator/solenoid with bubble counter and check valve $82.99 ($90.99 shipped)









diffuser $6 free shipping









drop checker $2 ($8 shipped)









Micromatic 5lb CO2 cylinder $56.95 ($64.45 shipped)








I tried calling a bunch of welding supply places in Austin first to see if it would be cheaper to buy a CO2 cylinder here like roybot73 suggested, but it wasn't, so I had to go online.

10 ft CO2 proof tubing $1 ($6.99 shipped)

I'm now just waiting for everything to arrive so I can go get the canister filled and then put it all together. 

I've also added plants from other members here and some of them look like they could use some pressurized CO2 badly.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Can't wait to see the results! Glad to help!


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Oh wow can you tell me where you got the JBJ CO2 regulator/solenoid with bubble counter and check valve $82.99 ($90.99 shipped)?

Also does the solenoid help so it shuts off at night? Anyways I belive this will be what I am ordering.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

thief said:


> Oh wow can you tell me where you got the JBJ CO2 regulator/solenoid with bubble counter and check valve $82.99 ($90.99 shipped)?
> 
> Also does the solenoid help so it shuts off at night? Anyways I belive this will be what I am ordering.


Sure thing thief! I got it from Aquabuys. You can thank roybot73 for giving me that link =) I knew almost nothing about CO2 but he was patient and kind enough to walk me through everything and answered all my newbie questions. 

Yes the solenoid lets you hook it up to a timer so that you can shut off your CO2 at night or whenever you please.


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks alot for the link. I got a big shipment from ADG yesterday so I will be posting pics soon for all of you. lol


Also any updates? Well I off to the Link you posted. :icon_mrgr


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

thief said:


> Thanks alot for the link. I got a big shipment from ADG yesterday so I will be posting pics soon for all of you. lol
> 
> 
> Also any updates? Well I off to the Link you posted. :icon_mrgr


Thief, I had an issue using Paypal to pay for the regulator. I hadn't received any shipping confirmation email so I called them today and spoke with a gentleman by the name of Sam. He says that once in awhile, Paypal doesn't properly relay the order to them at Aquabuys so they never received my order. Because of this inconvenience, he was nice enough to waive my shipping fee and refunded it to me. I got the refund and shipping confirmation within 30 mins after I hung up with Sam. Pretty cool of them at Aquabuys! 

So if you ordered it there and still have not received a confirmation email, the same thing might have happened to your order.

No updates yet on my tank. I have a lot of glass scraping to do, due to all the algae everywhere and I'm ashamed to show it right now. I'm hoping to get my CO2 setup and everything to stabilize and grow out a bit before I post more pics.


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Heavens no I haven't ordered yet. lol I need to think it through as not sure if I should get a 10 gallon tank. I will be setting up more Ada Mini's so I would have a manifold in the Co2, but the 10G cylinder might be to large. But still you got real Lucky. Doubt it will happen to me. 

Sorry about thread crapping. My fault.:icon_redf :icon_roll


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

thief said:


> Actually big news hit today before I went to the red sox stadium all day. My dad put a bid on a house that I didn't even go inside yet. And welp this might be it. So It looks like I won't be setting up my 60-P Mist. As the move would tank me at least 1-2 months. I have a 55 gallon, 2 10 gallon, 20 gallon, and the Mini M, and 2.5. The Mini M wouldn't be a problem. But we will see.
> 
> Also heavens no I haven't ordered yet. lol I need to think it through as not sure if I should get a 10 gallon tank. I will be setting up more Ada Mini's so I would have a manifold in the Co2, but the 10G cylinder might be to large. But still you got real Lucky. Doubt it will happen to me.
> 
> ...



Thief -- I don't mean to sound rude here, but your post really belongs in your own thread. There is no content pertinent to the OP.:icon_neut


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

double post.:icon_redf


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Well my 5lb CO2 tank arrived on Friday. However, Micro Matic did a poor job of packing it, and I'm sure those guys at UPS weren't exactly gentle, so the top of the CO2 tank punctured a hole in the box, and now my CO2 tank is missing a knob.  

I called Micro Matic and they are shipping me a knob to put on top of the tank. How do I go about attaching this thing when it arrives? I hope nothing else is wrong with that tank.










As for my tank, I practically have to scrape the glass daily to get rid of algae. It's also taking over my HC and dwarf lobelia cardinalis in the middle and any new leaves that it grows. I bought some ranunculus inundatus and some of the leaves died off but there are new leaves sprouting which you can see in the left of the picture by the wood. 

I also bought some myriophillum mattogrossence which I planted in the back, in front of the vals nana, which you can't even see anymore, and which aren't really growing. I guess it desperately needs some pressurized CO2? I wanted the whole background to be covered by vals or a similar plant so that it would sway in the current. 

Anyone have any input on my plants or what I should add? My manzanita in the front seems to be turning white in some of the cracks? Should I be worried? I received my diffuser, tubing, regulator/solenoid/bubble counter. I'm just waiting on my drop checker and also the replacement knob for the tank, and then I can go get it filled with CO2. 










Coleman was also generous enough to send me some needle/narrow leaf java fern plantlets free of charge and he even paid shipping. I hope they will grow big and nice like the picture below. Then I will put it where the blyxa on the left is.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Awesome!


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

It looks not bad. Also looks like you want your tank like the picture below. Are you going to have that part filled with plants so the left side would be sticking out? Then it would look like branches coming out of the forest or something?

Looks great. Sorry about your nozzle.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Well I have my pressurized CO2 setup now. I'm running my lights for 8 hours from 4pm - 12am along with the CO2 at about 1bps. What do you guys think? Is that too long? Too short? I've also stopped dosing Excel and only dose ferts according to Seachem's schedule. 

I notice the bottom of my diffuser has water in it? Like the part under the ceramic disc. Is that normal? Also, something weird is that each time my solenoid turns the regulator on the next day, the bps won't be the same. It could be at a slower rate, and it could be at a quicker rate. What could cause this and how do I fix it?

Finally, I have tons of hair/thread algae on the HC. Is the CO2 going to prevent more algae from appearing? I'm thinking of getting some Amano shrimp to help with algae cause these cherry shrimp are slackers =P


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Any updates here? Did you get the CO2 figured out?


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Yes, thanks to MatPat over at APC, I got my CO2 issue fixed. I now get a consistent BPS from day to day.

I thought with pressurized CO2 that my algae problems would go away. Boy was I wrong =) I still have hair algae on my HC and constantly get algae on the glass. I just did a very thorough scraping of all 4 sides today.

I also had lots of algae growing on the leaves of the dwarf lobelia cardinalis and myriophillum mattogrossence so I removed both of those plants. I removed the biggest piece of driftwood because it was a little too large for this tank, threw the scale off. Also, it got in the way of me scraping the algae on the glass  

The vals nana I have had in there forever is finally growing and sending out runners, although it has some algae on the older leaves. The HC has spread out and is a lot thicker and denser now. I'm going to wait until my algae issues are under control before I try to add any more plants.

I added a pump and bubble wand to aerate the water when I don't have the CO2 or lights on. A good side effect of this is that now I never get anymore gross surface film. However, the wand is blue and long and doesn't exactly hide well in the tank.

My cherry shrimp keep breeding like crazy and I probably have 50 or so shrimp in there now. I'm going to try to get rid of most of them except for a few females, and then probably try adding some amano shrimp to hopefully help control the algae issues.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

So I've rescaped the tank yet again. I felt like it was missing something so I took all my original manten stone that you see on the first page and took a hammer to it. It ended up making a lot of interesting looking smaller pieces that are more suitable for a 5 gallon tank.

Originally my HC had formed a carpet and spread to most of the tank. I ripped out a lot of it in order to add the stones and more aquasoil to give it more of a slope. Now I only have some HC in the foreground and I plan to get some glosso and add it to the crevices between the rocks in the midground. 

I took the ranunculus inundatus and planted it with the driftwood on the left side. I'm thinking of adding some other small and short plants there to give a contrast. Any suggestions? Or should I just keep ranunculus inundatus as the only plant there? 

Between the manzanita I have some narrow or needle leaf java fern tied to a separate piece of driftwood. I want to add some cyperus helferi along the back. How do you guys think that will look? Any suggestions or criticisms are welcome!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I like this scape the most! Beautiful. Now give it to me


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, like this!


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Thank you for the kind words guys. How is my rock placement? Anything that needs moving? Or do I need more rocks anywhere? I notice in the picture that it is hard to tell the rocks from the aquasoil. Hopefully with the glosso planted in between the rocks you will be able to see the shapes of the rocks clearly.

I forgot to mention that I've now gone down from 8 hrs to 6 hrs of light and it seems to be keeping the algae off of the glass. Previously I had to scrape the glass probably every day . I would also like the very front of the tank to not be so level, and instead have dips and valleys in the aquasoil but that is kind of hard to do now with the HC entrenched there.


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking good! May I suggest moving your rocks around. 

They looks too crowded and are like in rows. Take away that nice wild feeling. I would take some stones out and move some of them around.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

i like it just the way it is... will look great when the HC grows between the rocks.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

thief said:


> Looking good! May I suggest moving your rocks around.
> 
> They looks too crowded and are like in rows. Take away that nice wild feeling. I would take some stones out and move some of them around.


Yes I definitely want it natural and "wild feeling" as you put it. I tried to change it up a bit by using different sized rocks and having them face different directions. I purposely didn't want that much extra space in between the rocks but this may not work when I try to plant the glosso and I will end up having to remove the rocks anyways. Thanks for the comment! I will try experimenting with moving the rocks around some more. There are actually some big pieces left I can still hammer and see what little rocks I get as a result.




MedRed said:


> i like it just the way it is... will look great when the HC grows between the rocks.


Actually I'm going to try glosso between the rocks because I've never used it before. After hearing your success ordering from Aquaspot World, I'm considering placing my order through them for the glosso and cyperus helferi and other things.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

if i were u i would move the rocks around the base of the wood pieces, it would look incredible, just the way amano does his tanks.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

volatile said:


> Yes I definitely want it natural and "wild feeling" as you put it. I tried to change it up a bit by using different sized rocks and having them face different directions. I purposely didn't want that much extra space in between the rocks but this may not work when I try to plant the glosso and I will end up having to remove the rocks anyways. Thanks for the comment! I will try experimenting with moving the rocks around some more. There are actually some big pieces left I can still hammer and see what little rocks I get as a result.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool! i'd be careful with things that don't ship well like glosso. It will be 4-5 days in the dark. My UG wasn't worth it... but i've ordered several other plants there that were all very healthy


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Cyperus might be too much plant for a tank this size. The stuff in my 60-P is so long now that more than half the length is floating on the surface blocking lots of light...

I really like the new layout! I'd leave it just the way it is -- it will start to look more natural as the plant mass builds up...
(needs moss!!!):thumbsup:


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## fish_fasinated (Mar 30, 2006)

i love the simplicity of this tank. awsome job


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

fishman9809 said:


> if i were u i would move the rocks around the base of the wood pieces, it would look incredible, just the way amano does his tanks.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean? You are suggesting I add more rocks around the base of the wood? Or that I should rearrange the rocks that are there now? Do you have a picture in mind?



roybot73 said:


> Cyperus might be too much plant for a tank this size. The stuff in my 60-P is so long now that more than half the length is floating on the surface blocking lots of light...
> 
> I really like the new layout! I'd leave it just the way it is -- it will start to look more natural as the plant mass builds up...
> (needs moss!!!):thumbsup:


Thanks for letting me know about Cyperus roybot73. I can see in your beautiful tank how long/tall it gets. I wonder if it is one of those plants where its size will adapt to the tank. I want a tank that doesn't require too much trimming so I'm trying to keep away from plants that require lots of trimming, if any at all.

I've considered leaving it the way it is and adding moss to the branches, but it feels incomplete to me for some reason. I am not fond of all the empty space in the back. But mainly, I'd like more plants for my fish to swim/hide in. I'm also hoping that with more plants in there sucking up the nutrients from the water that it will leave none for the algae and that my algae problem will completely go away. 

I know I said I was going to do glosso between the rocks but I've changed my mind yet again. I want as many different but complimentary looking plants in this small tank and the glosso leaf structure is too similar to HC and may not look as cool as I imagined it would. I will either put dwarf riccia between the rocks, or pull out all the HC and plant that between the rocks, and make a dwarf riccia carpet in front, or just go all HC in the front and between the rocks. I'm reading up on the forums about the hassle of trimming riccia and keeping it attached to whatever you tie it down with. Does anyone have experience with dwarf riccia they'd like to share? Will I constantly be trimming it or tying it back down? 

Do you guys think I need something in the back left corner? I'm trying to get as many different types of plants in here as possible for variety. These are the plants I've been looking at: some sort of Rotalla(maybe Wallichi to add some red/pink to the tank), Ludwigia Repens for red color, Crypts (lucens?), Stargrass, or a Hygro??

Then my other issue is if I plant stuff in the back left and along the back wall, it makes me think that I'd have to plant some stuff on the back right to balance it out or else it would look strange.

I originally assumed a 5 gallon tank would be easy to plant. I could get my feet wet in aquascaping before moving onto something bigger. Boy was I wrong =( It has been well over a year now and I'm not even close to finished....


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I think you might be overthinking all of this a bit too much! Put a bit of HC between the rocks so it can spread around. Get some Crypt Lucens or Petchii to plant around the driftwood mass, and wrap a few small (marble sized or slightly bigger) rocks with some moss to fill in some of the gaps.

Most importantly, *stop looking at the tank for a few days!* A fresh set of eyes willl help more than you realize!
There you go! Easy-Peazy no trim/low maintenance mini M...


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> I think you might be overthinking all of this a bit too much! Put a bit of HC between the rocks so it can spread around. Get some Crypt Lucens or Petchii to plant around the driftwood mass, and wrap a few small (marble sized or slightly bigger) rocks with some moss to fill in some of the gaps.
> 
> Most importantly, *stop looking at the tank for a few days!* A fresh set of eyes willl help more than you realize!
> There you go! Easy-Peazy no trim/low maintenance mini M...


You are right about the overthinking part and it is driving me crazy! Unfortunately, the tank is in my study and about 5 ft in front of me so I'm constantly staring at it. Or it is constantly staring at me, I should say. It probably doesn't help that I'm just a little bit OCD. Maybe I can cover the tank with a bag or something for a few days :red_mouth 

I did consider Crypt Lucens as I like the look of it, and it is one of the only plants that is a good size for this tank.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

I got a delivery today from CAL Aqua Labs =) Since my tank is so small, I wanted to get as much equipment/tubing outside of the tank as possible. With my previous diffuser, it would grow algae, and the shrimp were *ALWAYS* playing inside of it and taking poops in it. My previous diffuser(poop removed):










My new diffuser.


















I'll take more pictures of it in action later once the solenoid kicks on.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Here is a picture of the diffuser under the table. Please excuse the ugly brown intake tube behind it that needs cleaning :icon_redf. I've noticed the bubbles are finer than my previous diffuser. The bubbles may be hard to see and are a little bit above and to the right of the big C under the ceramic disc. 

Also, it doesn't make the chirping noise that myself and many others have experienced with some in tank diffusers. I wanted to take a picture of the bubbles coming out of my out take pipe but they are like specks and my camera can't capture them.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

incredible looking diffuser!!! does it work as well as it is hyped to?


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Honestly, it is too soon to say. I'll give it a few weeks tryout period and then post pictures of the tank so we can all see how well it worked.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

how small are the bubbles that come out of it? are they as small as what comes out of a rhinox diffuser?


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

I've never used a rhinox diffuser. I can try to measure one tonight and estimate. Also, they shrink in size by the time they actually exit my outtake pipe. I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing. The bubbles are easily visible when they leave the ceramic disc, but by the time they enter into the tank they look like little specks of dust that push to the other end of the tank before floating up to the surface and disappearing.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That is a good sign  That is a very cool diffuser


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

I scraped the glass and took a few pics today. Notice the "moss" I have growing on the far right of the branch :icon_cry:. I uprooted some of the HC a few days ago and planted it between the rocks. You can get a good look at it, and the rocks in the top view shot. Hope it doesn't take too long to spread.

Per the recommendation of some of the people here, I bought some KH standard from this site to use with my drop checker. Then I can tweak my CO2 to an optimum level so that the algae isn't the only thing pearling in my tank. Right now it is at .3bps. 

I'm also waiting for my Kordon breather bags to arrive so that I can get rid of most of my shrimp. I estimate that I have around 75-100 of them and I'm going to sell them all except for the adult females so that they will stop breeding.

My plants should arrive this week so I'll post another update then.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I am so envious  This will be amazing when it grows in all the way


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

looking great!


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

I just realized that the reason I can't see a steady stream of bubbles coming out of my out take pipe is because my diffuser is almost in horizontal position under the table. As a result, the CO2 forms a huge air pocket/bubble down there and it lessens the amount of bubbles that come out up top. Normally, I would just be able to reposition the diffuser so it is in a more vertical position but my tubing is like permanently stuck to the valve.  I can't un-tighten it to release the tubing. It's like when the threads are stripped off a screw. Does anyone have any idea how I can get the valve to release the tubing?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Pull up on the threaded slip while turning counter- clockwise  Hope that helps


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

That's the problem! I can't even get it to turn anymore. I tried one of those no-slip grip things on it and I can't turn it. I hope I don't have to use a wrench or something cause that would break it. And Eheim doesn't have any sort of tech support .


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Maybe youve loosened it all the way.....


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

clwatkins10 said:


> Maybe youve loosened it all the way.....


Haha I checked after your message, and no, it was not loosened all the way:red_mouth. I then took some slip joint pliers and was finally able to loosen that sucker and change the tubing. I'll post pics tonight of the newly positioned diffuser in action!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Glad you got it fixed  Im interested to see a review of this diffuser


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Here are some pics of the now vertical diffuser in action. I have my bubbles at .3bps. It was hard to capture the bubbles coming out into the tank but I think you can see the little specks. If not, try clicking on the picture to see the full size. Also, Jason from Project Aquarium did a photoshop for me and suggested I break up the rocks into 2 groups. What do you guys think? Regardless of which one I go with, I'd like to completely cover the backside with plants. I like both and can't decide which one I like more! :icon_lol:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I think that that rock arrangement would be pretty much awesome  Cool diffuser


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## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

I would prefer to see the rocks in two groups rather than just spread out.

BTW I am doing a very similar scape with a Mini-M too. I will be using some dwarf Java Fern on the rocks and behind the driftwood/rock form have some Didiplis Diandra or another fine leaf stem plant.

Keep up the great work!!!


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## fish_fasinated (Mar 30, 2006)

nice diffusor im really jealous, tank looks pretty good right now, why not let it fill in a bit before messing with it more?


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

yeah... i like your rock formation as it is now. It's different. Doesn't look like anyone else's tank. Of course... if you don't like it, that's what matters.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Nice lookin tank :thumbsup: 

I think I like something about your rocks better than the two groups, which seems a bit norm these days. Maybe like they are now but not so uniform, larger rocks spreading right into smaller ones. If you're creative enough with the slope and planted space between each rock, you could pull off a mountain face type thing like in the 2007 ADA aquascaping contest winner.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

So against my better judgement and advice of some of you guys, I did try to change my rocks around to make 2 groups. Main reason being I really wanted to have a lush green valley up the middle with just HC. 

Initially I tried to make it look like the picture, but that was impossible due to those rocks just being photoshopped onto each other. During the whole process I got so frustrated I contemplated just putting the rocks back to how they were, and also completely quitting aquascaping. It was just so hard to move stuff around in such a small tank with the driftwood, intake/outtake pipes, etc in the way. Not to mention the splashing of water and my fish and shrimp getting splashed out of the tankn and having to put them back in. Finally I settled on a 2 rock group formation and while I'm not 100% satisfied with it, I think I'll let the HC grow back in again and try to stick with this setup instead of constantly tinkering with it.

I've learned a few lessons though. If I ever am able to upgrade to a bigger tank, I'm definitely going to try to plan out everything I want before I buy it and also setup the substrate, rocks, and driftwood before even filling it with water. This whole changing the scape while the tank is full with hardware, water, and fish is the worst way imaginable of doing things. Also, if possible, I don't plan on buying rocks from AFA again, sight unseen. I bought "manten stone" but feel that my rocks don't seem to all be the same type? Hopefully I'll be able to pick out my rocks in person, or at least see pictures of them first, next time.

On a side note, I've sold 80 of the RCS I had in there. I was surprised there were that many. I still have about 20 I can't catch but will wait until they are bigger so that I can sell all of the non-females off so that they won't breed anymore and overcrowd my aquarium.

I finally received my kh standard in the mail. Customer service was a little lacking as I placed the order on a weekend and then received no communication through the week and it wasn't sent out until over 5 days later. It seems my .3bps that I was using is pretty optimal as it turns the drop checker green. I'm still not seeing any pearling though :icon_frow.

I am also trying some Wonder-Gro Macro and Micro from Aquaspotworld as I'm tired of Seachem's dosing regimen. I know many of you like dosing your macros individually but I'm all about convenience and if this doesn't work out, I can always go back to my Seachem ferts. Also I like being able to use the pump bottle instead of double dipping my pipette into multiple Seachem containers and cross contaminating.













jaidexl said:


> Nice lookin tank :thumbsup:
> 
> I think I like something about your rocks better than the two groups, which seems a bit norm these days. Maybe like they are now but not so uniform, larger rocks spreading right into smaller ones. If you're creative enough with the slope and planted space between each rock, you could pull off a mountain face type thing like in the 2007 ADA aquascaping contest winner.


After changing it into 2 groups, I agree with you and prefer the old setup but I'm not going to change it as I will inevitably find something else wrong and be stuck in this never ending cycle again =P. I did think about a gradual progression of large rocks going to smaller rocks but found that I don't really like the stones I have, and feel that they are mismatched. Is this the 2007 ADA aquascaping winner? I've looked at it before and thought it was an awesome job but didn't feel my rocks could accomplish a similar look.

Right now I'm trying not to touch anything as and just let the plants grow out more. Hopefully I am nearing the end of the rearranging of this tank and will have final pics for you guys soon.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yep, that's the one. I feel your frustration, I have space issues in my 65gl due to the driftwood I used and the way I made a sand path. It drives me batty sometimes, trying to find room for stems and create a balance.


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