# Newbie With a TON of IWAGUMI Questions!!



## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Hey guys, I have had a reef tank for awhile now and I want another tank but i don't want all the maintenance of a reef!! So I've been looking into doing a sweet Iwugami planted tank. However I'm kinda lost because it is hard to find good info on this style of aqua scape and I don't know too much about freshwater tanks!!!
This is my sort of inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXDPxdcWl-s&feature=related

1.) I want to use either the Mr. Aqua 12 gallon long or the Mr.aqua 10 gallon or a GLA 17 gallon. However if you can suggest a better rimless tank under 20 I'd love to hear it!!
2.)I have no idea about lighting for a tank. I plan on getting a fishneedit t5HO fixture I was thinking this one with one white and one pink: http://www.fishneedit.com/t5ho-3ft--2lamp-aquarium-light.html
3.) If that fixture doesn't work, what will for under 150?? Don't want metal Halide!! What color temp should I get for the white bulb? Why do plants like pink light?? If my above fisture would not be enough light would this fixture be enough light:
http://www.fishneedit.com/3ft4bulbs-with-l34.html
4.) Where are all the stones?? they are all sold out!! Where is the best place to buy them? Is there American stones that will work??
6.) I was planning on buying substrate from ADG's website. Does any other substrate work? I was reading something and it said you have to make a layer in the substrate with all kins of chemicals to help the plants grow! Is this necessary or just a waste?
7.) For CO2 I was planning on making a DIY one!! Is a diffuser necessary?
8.) Anything else i should know?? What other equipment should i get?
7.) I was going to use an aquaclear 70 for filtration. Is there a good canister filter for under 60 bucks, that would work?
8.) Any cool fish ideas?? If i go with the 17 gallon tank is there any aggressive fish that would fit?? Like cichlid or something?


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Take a look at the ADA 60F. It's a sweet tank for iwagumi...IMO

It is shorter so the tank looks longer.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Love that tank but I want something a little bigger! I want to jam alot of fish in there!! wouldn't the mr.aqua 12 gallon be almost the same?


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

I think you should try a regular planted tank first, get a hang and then try iwagumi.


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## NyteBlade (Aug 19, 2006)

Spam Masubi said:


> Hey guys, I have had a reef tank for awhile now and I want another tank but i don't want all the maintenance of a reef!! So I've been looking into doing a sweet Iwugami planted tank. However I'm kinda lost because it is hard to find good info on this style of aqua scape and I don't know too much about freshwater tanks!!!
> This is my sort of inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXDPxdcWl-s&feature=related
> 
> 1.) I want to use either the Mr. Aqua 12 gallon long or the Mr.aqua 10 gallon or a GLA 17 gallon. However if you can suggest a better rimless tank under 20 I'd love to hear it!!
> ...


1) The ADA60P or ADA60F's are nice tanks. For iwagumi, about ~17 gallons seems to be a good size. The smaller tanks (10 or so gallons) I've found it's a bit harder to do the rock arrangements. Plus bigger is better (usually)

2/3) I have no idea what the pink bulbs really are. I have a T50HO fixture with 2 6700K bulbs - I like the 6700K the best. You can mix-match with 10,000K too. Some people swear by things like Geismann bulbs. A couple 6700K bulbs is all you need, but you can look around the threads here. There's one some place showing different color temperatures.

I'd check out http://www.catalinaaquarium.com. I bought a 2x24w T5HO light fixture from them and it's working very well so far. Some people like fishneedit's MH pendants, but I'm not sure about their T5HO ones.

4) If you can't find any stones anywhere, I'd give Frank at ADG a call. They don't have stones listed on their website, but it might be worth a shot to ask and see if they have anything or could get you something. That or the S&S here has some stones on sale from time to time.

5) ADA has a whole "substrate system" that you use, complete with powersand and substrate additives etc. I've never used the whole system before - opinions seem to be mixed on some of the additives. Almost everyone has luck with Aquasoil - it's good stuff. I recommend it.

7) with a T5HO fixture, be very careful with DIY CO2. It doesn't get your CO2 levels particularly high in my experience, and it's very touchy. You might have an algae disaster on your hands without pressurized CO2. I'd try to fit some sort of pressurized CO2 into your budget before you start investing in rocks or rimless tanks.

8) HOB filters cause more surface agitation, and disperse more CO2 than canister filters. Putting a HOB filter on a rimless tank wouldn't be (aesthetically) very good. I'd look for a used canister filter in the S&S for a $60 budget.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

What co2 reactor do you suggest? 
So don't get pink lights?
Ok if I were to buy a new canister filter how much would an adequate filter be for a 17 gallon? 
Aquasoil, hmmm I could use that as my only substrate? Or would I use that mixed with the iwagumi pebble stuff?
Since I have had one nano reef and one poco reef I'm not too worried about waiting and doing a normal plante tank first!! I don't like planted tanks except iwagumis!! 

Thanks for all the help!!


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Would a two bulb t5ho be enough light for a 17 gallon? I feel like a 4 light would be better but idk!!


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Would this be a good filter? If not please give me some options!!

http://www.marinedepot.com/filters_eheim_ecco_canister_external-ap.html


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

If i were getting a canister filter i would get the sunsun Hw 302 for close to 50 dollars shipped from [Ebay Link Removed] Search perfect canister filters and you'll find it. I have one and love it.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

I couldNt find it!!


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Sorry for all the questions guys, can I jam the heater in the canister filter? I really dOnt want to see it!!


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

This is why we have forums, to answer questions and collect ideas/share.

To start if you have a good LFS (local fish store) they will have good rocks. When buying them, especially if using on an iwagumi styles make sure the rocks look as natural as possible. Avoid roundish pebbles. A good place to read and understand the concept of iwagumi is this place http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2009/08/starting-iwagumi-aquascape.html and a few more articles under the aquascaping basics header.

If you don't like the heater in the tank you can always get an in-line heater made by hydro. Just google search to find the website with best pricing.

lighting giesseman midday bulbs would be your best option for an iwagumi setup. The pink bulbs you are referring to are actinic bulbs which are used for marine setups and don't provide much for freshwater plants.

I use this lighting as it's cheap and works very well. Only thing is I switched the atinic bulb out for a giesseman bulb


Canister filter,
http://www.bigalsonline.com/Fish_Filters_Canister-Filters_Cascade-Canister-Filters.html?tc=fish

Last thing, you should definitely wait to get a pressurized co2 setup before doing this. Iwagumi style tanks are very prone to algae because very few plants are used. Having a very fine tune control of everything ferts, lighting, and co2 is essential to keeping an algae bloom from happening.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

! The only reason I ask about pink bulbs is alot of sights have a planted tank set up for the light they are selling and pink is always an option!! But I will avoid them if that's what's the generalized consensus is!! Also do I really need a co2 system at all!? I know they make plants grow faster and stuff but won't a ton of fish add a bunch of co2 to the water? Can I start the tank and add a co2 system later if there is no growth!!?


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

And about the canister filter! I like that one it's cheap!! However I hear that in general enheim is better. Is this true? Because for 5 more dollars I could get this one!!

http://www.bigalsonline.com/Classic-Series-Canister-Filters.html?green=23096770629&tc=default


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

That online heater is awesome I have never heard of those before!! 

Thanks


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

Spam Masubi said:


> And about the canister filter! I like that one it's cheap!! However I hear that in general enheim is better. Is this true? Because for 5 more dollars I could get this one!!
> 
> http://www.bigalsonline.com/Classic-Series-Canister-Filters.html?green=23096770629&tc=default



that one dosen't have a uv. Enheim is a good company. But i just love my sunsun the regular hw 302 is only about 45 dollars shipped and it's silent. I can't hear a thing from it.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

4 bulbs or 2 bulbs??? For the 17? 4 or 2 for the 12 gallon long???


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Rockhoe14er said:


> that one dosen't have a uv. Enheim is a good company. But i just love my sunsun the regular hw 302 is only about 45 dollars shipped and it's silent. I can't hear a thing from it.


I can't find it on eBay!!!


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

yeah they don't have them posted so you might have to wait a couple of weeks until they put them on again. Kool_goods is the supplier


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok! Any cool fish ideas? Or other tips? And lighting help, as stated above!! I'm a spazz I hate waiting for answers!! lol


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

a school of cardinal tetra's always looks good.


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

There's a lot of info on the internet on iwagumi; no need to wait for answers when you can go research it.

I'd recommend starting small - get a small tank and do a Java moss carpet. You will have a lot of freedom to rearrange things, because your "carpet" will be moveable. Also, Java moss doesn't require high light - a small Mr. Aqua tank and a Home Depot daylight desklamp will work just fine.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Yah the harder I look the more Ive been finding!! But regardless I still need help with lighting!! I'm think after further research I'm going to do the 12 gallon long with a 2 bulb t5ho fixture!! From my research I have found that the longer tanks are better for iwagumi is this true??

Also is co2 really necessary? Won't fish and other animals make alot of it? If there is no growth can I add it later??


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Iwagumi is hard, and expensive, and yes, generally requires CO2 for any of the conventional layouts.

Unless you really, really want to drop almost a thousand dollars at the start, I'd recommend starting smaller and simpler. A 10 gallon Wal-Mart aquarium with CFL lights, a java moss (or marimo ball) carpet, and some sand and rocks from a local rockyard will look really awesome and can almost certainly be done for under $100.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

oh boy. Ok, here goes. A lot of decent info in this thread but a lot of false information too.

You do NOT need to drop 1000 bucks. You can do one for very cheap. Pink bulbs are NOT actinics, actinic bulbs are blue. Pink is for "plant" bulbs, but you don't need to use them if you don't like the pink color, white bulbs work just fine.

Start off with whatever size tank you like, whatever shape you like, however many gallons, etc etc. 
Longer tanks, shorter tanks, it doesn't matter, sure a long panoramic tank like the 12 gal mr aqua looks good for iwagumi but it's up to you, the "rules" are just there to guide you, it's up to you how you want it to look, after all, you are the one that has to look at it all the time, not us.

All those tanks you suggested are good tanks, the larger the tank, the more expensive it'll be to set up (since you need appropriately sized filters, lights, etc) but it'll be more stable.

An ehiem 2213 is a great filter, will last you for decades. You do not need a UV sterilizer, there's no need for it unless you get green water. 

If you don't want to see the heater in the tank, you can get a hydor eth 200, it's a 200 watt heater, make sure you get the one with the 1/2 inch tubing if you're going to run it on a 2213 so that it fits the hosing.

Of all those tanks that you've mentioned, a 2x24 watt t5ho will be too much light if you run the tank without co2, especially if you have it on legs over the tank. If you hang it high above the tank, then you can use the 2x24watt t5ho lights, I would suggest something like, 28 inches off the substrate. This is not a reef tank, you do not need a lot of light.

For co2, you could set up one of those paintball co2 deals for under 60 bucks for sure. Check the thread in the DIY section. You can either build an inline reactor (search for this in the diy section) or you can buy one of those glass ceramic diffusers. You can't just stick the tube into the water, the co2 won't be absorbed.

ok, recap on equipment:
whatever size tank you want. 
fishneedit t5ho 2x24 is a decent light, go with 2 6500k or 6700k bulbs, 10,000k would work too, it's up to you, whatever you think looks good.
filter: eheim 2213 is a great filter
heater - hydor eth200watt 1/2 inch if you want an inline heater and not have one in the tank
co2 - less than $60 for a paintball set up

This whole set up should cost about $300-400, but you gotta find your own deals out there, check craigslist for used filters and lights

now, as far as soil and plants and fish go...
Substrate

aquasoil is great, best I've used so far. You don't need to put the other stuff like powersand or the bacter, penac, whatever in, just aquasoil will be just fine. It does leech ammonia but this helps your tank cycle, and you just have to be disciplined and do your water changes. Once you test your water and no more ammonia shows up you can add fish. Since you're starting with a new filter, this can take up to a month.

Plants. 

You can do HC, dwarf hairgrass, anything, a lot of plants out there for iwagumis. If you're not going to be doing co2 though, I would stick with dwarf hairgrass and staurogyne sp.049 (repens, tropica, it goes by a lot of names) these plants do ok with out co2 and lower lighting. Whatever you do, make sure to plant densely from the start, this help curbs the algae outbreak. You could also do a dry start with the hairgrass, let it go for a few weeks with just wet soil (soaked) and it'll carpet on it's own. This way you can save up to buy a co2 set up while waiting for the carpet to fill in. Lots of threads on this as well if you search for it.

Fish. 

For iwagumis, it's traditional to have small slender schooling fish in the tank, as they "match" better with the layout, but its up to you.

Cichlids, I would only suggest the dwarf cichlids like rams or apistos. Others will grow quite large and/or will dig up your plants.

Personally I would go with the smaller tetras, like green neons for this size tank. Cardinal tetras would get a little too big.


Here is a picture of my iwagumi done in a 20gallon long tank. I found the rocks at a local rock yard that sells rocks for contractors and stuff, they let me take them for free since they were scrap pieces. The total cost on this tank was about 400 bucks


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

I just started iwugami myself so take anything I say with a grain of salt, however I would say I am a quick learner.



Spam Masubi said:


> Hey guys, I have had a reef tank for awhile now and I want another tank but i don't want all the maintenance of a reef!! So I've been looking into doing a sweet Iwugami planted tank. However I'm kinda lost because it is hard to find good info on this style of aqua scape and I don't know too much about freshwater tanks!!!
> This is my sort of inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXDPxdcWl-s&feature=related
> 
> 1.) I want to use either the Mr. Aqua 12 gallon long or the Mr.aqua 10 gallon or a GLA 17 gallon. However if you can suggest a better rimless tank under 20 I'd love to hear it!!
> ...


1. As already suggested any size, shape, anything is fine. There is no set rules for this.

2. I currently have 2x24W T5HO on my 20G and kinda regret it. I should have gone with one bulb. I have a lot of algea issues. Less light would help a lot with that.

3. As already discussed it doesnt have to be a super expensive light system if you are going for 10-20G. Any 1 bulb T5HO fixture will work really well. I personally recomend a brand called Nova extreme t5ho made by current usa. They make both 2x24W and 1x24W

4. Iwugami literally means rock garden if I recall correctly. There are no specific type of rock that needs to be used. However I recomend ryouh rock that can be found over at www.adgshop.com They are out (I took the last of it lol) right now but are getting a new shipment any week now I believe.

6. (lol). Aquasoil is very good stuff. I did mine a bit messed up lol and if I did it over again I would use AS amazonia I + powder type as a cap. Tis all you need. Infact I read somewhere that Amano himself doesnt really use that much (if any) ferts in his setups. Everything the plants need are in the soil.

7. Pressurized or go home! Seriously cant stress that enough. I had to bite this bullet as well. Its costly initially depending on what you buy, but worth it.

To answer the last of your questions ....... its up to you. Personally I prefer canister filters and are more traditionally used in iwugami setups because you can hide everything and use lily pipes.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok, i like the idea of just going to a rock seller and buying some rock. How do you know what kind of rock wont negatively affect your water? The reefer in me gets gets skeptical when it comes to just buying rocks from any old rock yard

And i don't know why I cant find it, I'm new to this site. Can someone post me a link for how to DIY paintball set up??

thanks!!


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

I cant find any nova extreme fixtures with on bulb, maybe I'm blind....


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

If you can hang the fixture, a 2x24watt fixture would work just fine, this would be ideal since it'll give you a better light spread. 

If you can't hang it and don't want to go w/ co2, you could get a 2 bulb fixture and only run 1 bulb, but becareful, you can only do it on some fixtures. I know it worked on my fishneedit t5ho


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/115850-paintball-co2-injection-diy-setup-tons.html


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

Well there are some rocks that do affect PH, GH and KH. Which if like me, you have very soft water out of the tap could be a good thing. Plus once you get preasurized Co2 that will lower your PH anyway. But I couldnt really say which ones do or dont.

And I could have sworn they had a single fixture model, guess not though. Sorry about that.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

No problem!! So I can literally just goto a rock yard and buy whatever rock I want that fits my tank??


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

Spam Masubi said:


> No problem!! So I can literally just goto a rock yard and buy whatever rock I want that fits my tank??


More or less yeah, but I would probably boil them a little just to make sure no nasties hitched a ride.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

well, you gotta be careful what rocks you use. Seiryu will leech into the water and make it hard, so if you're keeping sensitive shrimp, this could be an issue. Always do a vinegar test to make sure the rock is ok.


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## Spam Masubi (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok I will look into vinegar testing!! Never heard of that!!


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