# Is this staghorn, hair, or what?



## bishop (Apr 8, 2004)

This stuff is on some plants more than others, but it seems to love the micro-sword and ludwigia... micro-sword just doesn't like me I think.

I've taken photos, they are here: (8x-24x mag.) http://www.ecotechmarine.com/bishop/Algae/

Here's an example pic if you don't want to go through the others:








24x Magnification


It seems to be getting slightly better every week. I've fought a month long bout with greenwater, that was corrected using 24hrs of darkness, HOT micron, water changes, and a coagulant.

I just swapped a tetratec filter out with an Eheim ecco 2231 (really neat little filter!) tonight, CO2 has been pulled, and NO3/PO4 levels are being elevated... 

I want to make sure this approach will help, and if not, what will.

I had been dosing with Flourish only, but now I've switched to individual nutrient sources, all of which are seachem.

The tank is a 30g Oceanic cube with 192watts from PC quads, so wpg is 6.4. Slightly more useful is the .505 W/in^2.

The temp is 79 deg, 
pH is around 7.0-7.2
KH: ~80-90ppm
GH: ~75 ppm
NO3: ~10 ppm
NO2: 0ppm

5-in-1 test strips are all I really have to test with except a pH titration and a pH probe.

The tank has only been setup since February or so, so I am thinking this is one of those natural cycles that will go away with some time; but I want to make sure I encourage it's departure.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I would call it staghorn algae, hair algae are a green thick mess, nothing like that.

You mentioned that you pulled CO2... why?

Also, you switched from Flourish to individual nutrients... Flourish is a trace element mix, while you are adding macro elements (NPK). Plants really need both.

Get a good NO3 and PO4 test, with that much light you will need to dose frequently.


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## bishop (Apr 8, 2004)

I pulled the CO2 in an effort to curtail the greenwater problem I had been having; with the development of the algae you see in the photo I have refrained from putting it back on, perhaps it is time to start it back up. 

I had been using a DIY system and getting roughly 60 bpm without a decent way to control so I removed it until I can get a more controllable method setup.

As far as the Flourish, I had thought that the product called solely Flourish was a combination of the trace elements along with an NPK fertilizer. Now I've switched to the NPK flourish as well as the Flourish trace elements.

What are good test kits for freshwater? I've always used Lamotte in the past, but it's been quite a while since I've kept a freshwater aquarium. Is there a test with near Lamotte quality but without the high price?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I agree, time to put that CO2 back to work. I find it fairly easy to control, starting with bottle size and diffusion method.

Flourish doesn't contain NPK. It is a trace mix. Flourish trace is improved tap water... I would suggest in addition to NPK use Flourish.

I use Red Sea test kits for NO3 and PO4. I have no experience with Lamotte, but I heard that Seachem makes decent low priced kits too. They all should be around $8 each.


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## corigan (Feb 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Flourish doesn't contain NPK. It is a trace mix. Flourish trace is improved tap water... I would suggest in addition to NPK use Flourish.


I found this comparison chart a little while ago and thought it was pretty cool. Shows what is in TMG, Plantex CSM+B, Flourish, Fl Trace, Fl Tabs, and some of the Kent Botanica products. 

http://www.gpodio.com/fert_table.asp

I'm not sure of it's validity, but I switched from TMG to plantex because of it (that and it's cheaper.. . This graph shows flourish as having NPK in it (very little ammounts, but none-the-less), and at the bottom in the others it shows it as containing NPK as well. I wonder if this is truly a valid breakdown.

Matt


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## SueNH (Feb 25, 2004)

I just had a good flush of that stuff too. Saw a little bit at first and didn't think too much of it. Seemed like in a day or two the tank was loaded. Ripped out what I could by hand. Still plucking a little here and there but it's pretty much subsiding on it's own.

I think my ludwigia is the only one I don't see it on. Worst is the tangle in the java moss. Just wandered over to look and see what has it and I noticed the redder the plant the less it has, several species included. Wonder if that's just a coincidence. Either way it's slowing down.
What I've got to stop doing is letting curiosity get the better of me. I could have stopped it easier I think if I started working at it when it first appeared but I had to leave it and observe. Not even a pretty green. Looked like renegade steel wool in spots.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

For the purpose of supplying a planted tank with nutrients, Flourish doesn't contain NPK. Yes there is some in it, just as in water, unless it is distilled. My point was, you need to supply both NPK and micros, and replacing one by the other is probably not the right thing.
Nice table though :mrgreen:


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## bishop (Apr 8, 2004)

So I push the plants into a growth and development stage that will outcompete the algea; by making sure the necessary NPK, CO2, and Trace Elements are present. That seems like a balance that could be tricky to reach.

I've been reading back through the posts on this forum, as well as a couple of books, (Baensch Vol I and Scheurmann Plant Manual). Yet I don't think I had fully realized this.

I was under the impression that the presence of the nutrients was basically the limiting agent for algae growth, but it seems as though you guys are saying that the they limit the plants ultimately, which in turn encourages the algae to grow when the plants stall. Is this pretty much correct?


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Correct.

Ultimately, the only real way of keeping algae at bay is balance... Too much or too little of any one thing can encourage algae to thrive. Algae, being a lower form of plant is actually very hardy, resiliant, and tolerant of many different conditions. 

Nasa is using different species of algae in deep space experiments and found that certain species can survive the extreme temperatures and vacuum of open space.... Its no wonder that such a simple organism can cause such havok in our little slices of nature.


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## bishop (Apr 8, 2004)

Well... this is going to be fun I can already tell....

I brought the CO2 back online, put a very minimal dose of nitrate and phosphorus in the tank...

After one full day of lights, the algae has exponentially grown worse, on some leaves, the algae looks like makes them look furry. Some plants seem fairly resistant though.

The java moss, madagascar lace, large sword, and banana plant seem to be somewhat untouched... the rest are taking a beating.

Is this something that is going to get worse before it gets better?


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

It got a hole lot worse before it got better in my tank.... Took about a week of keeping the C02 at 20-30ppm and the nitrate and phosphate in spec before things started to clear up and then within a few days the algae seemed to just disappear... Patience is the key... Wouldn't hurt to post your updated water specs too, so everyone can see where your at.

Jason


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## bishop (Apr 8, 2004)

I have to order some water tests; unfortunately the only LFS close by is Petsmart, I tend not to trust the products they sell.

I put the CO2 back online, using the gelatine method again; plants are streaming oxygen again and there is a lot of new growth on the plants. THe algae isn't getting too much worse yet.

Using the AP 5-pad test strips, the NO2 is between 0 and 20ppm, no PO4 test.


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## bishop1134 (Apr 8, 2004)

Well, it's gotten better and worse.

The plants are doing great, tons of growth, aponogeton ulvaceus has three blossoms on it in less than a week; but the staghorn algae has been replaced by a greener bushier algae (brush algae maybe) and a nice bout of greenwater to boot! 

Still no test kits, so I'm not really suprised, but I have been keeping the NO3 up a bit better.


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