# New to fishkeeping and want a planted tank



## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Hello everyone, I'm picking up my first ever fish tank this weekend. I'm getting it from a friend who is downsizing. I believe it's a 55 gallon and it's an established tank at the moment. She re-homed all the fish so I can have a fresh start. I've been researching for the past 2 weeks and I believe I have a plan. Also on tap is my 2 friends that have had tanks for a while so their experience is limited when it comes to live plants which brings me here.


As far as filtration, lighting, and all that, I don't really know what she's giving me. I do know that the light has a blacklight and there's an airstone.


So my plan: 



Substrate - Black Beauty sand (one of my hobbies is metal fabrication so I already have this on tap and it seems popular)


Hardscaping - I think these rocks would look good with a black substrate, I think 2 bags would probably suffice for now. https://www.chewy.com/pisces-usa-seiryu-aquarium-rock-17-lb/dp/164145


Live Plants - I don't want to get too crazy right off the bat but what would be some good slow growers for a low tech tank?


Ferts - I have no knowledge here, do I need them? If so what kind, and roughly how much?


Fish - From what I've read, I need to let the plants settle in, check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia and then I can start adding fish slowly?
- So far, I'm interested in doing a few groups of small fish, swordtails (maybe 6?), corydoras, (maybe 4?), tiger barbs (maybe 10?).
- Some reviews say the barbs may be somewhat aggressive so maybe swap them with rasporas
- Would a pleco be a good addition?
- And lastly, I think shrimp would be really cool, does anything here look like an issue?


So in all, I'm just looking for reassurance on this plan and any recommendation on a community fish stock. An update will come Saturday when I pick the tank up and see what equipment I have to work with. My LFS is That Pet Place in Lancaster, PA if anyone wants to see what fish I have access to locally.



Thanks everyone


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## Fishfeet (Oct 11, 2018)

Some plecos get VERY big. Pay attention to the grown size before making decisions. Corys and plecos have a barb of sorts on their dorsal (back) fin and can poke you or snag on your fish net. Be careful and gentle.
Barbs and swords may pick at and kill shrimp. 

If you keep some of the gravel from the original tank, it will cycle faster. Even faster if you keep the filter material wet with the original tank water. 

Various types of valisneria are slow to establish but will spread once they get ahold. Good value!
Anubias are very slow growers but are tough. You can glue them to stones or decorations to keep them in place. 

Some plants absorb nutrients from gravel and others absorb it from the water. That will determine which type of ferts you use.

I would watch lots of videos and pick a person whose philosophy you think you can relate to and don’t worry about conflicting information. There is always going to be conflicting info and it can get overwhelming trying to reconcile all of it.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Sounds like a great plan!

My advice would be to:

1) Do as much research on the nitrogen cycle as you can

2) If you would like a plec, make sure it's a bristlenose. Don't listen to anyone who says common plecs will only grow to the size of the tank.

3) If you just want a plec for cleanup/algae control then skip it and get nerite snails instead. Plecs look cool but poop everywhere, uproot your plants, and hide all day, so it's only worth it if you love them.

4) Get at least 6 corydoras as they're much better in groups. Make sure they're all the same species.

5) Tiger barbs are beautiful but can be nippy if not kept in big enough numbers. 10 should hopefully be enough, but make sure you have plenty of hiding places and things that break the line of sight. Rasboras would probably be easier and you can have more of them.

6) If you get a mix of m/f swordtails, they WILL breed and quickly overrun a tank. However, if you do get 10 tiger barbs, you won't need to worry about this.

7) I don't really use ferts and the following plants work for me:
- Java fern
- Java moss
- Cryptocoryne species
- Valisneria species
- Anubias species
- Amazon swords
- Moss balls
- Duckweed & water lettuce


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Thanks for the tips so far guys. Definitely changed my mind about a pleco, I think snails will be cool. Are all barbs as aggressive as tigers? They have other barbs (Odessa) which don't seem to have any reviews saying they're aggressive. The only thing I seem to really want to stick with is the Swords. Of course, all this could change when I actually get to the fish store.

Also, interesting that you don't use ferts in your tank. Who doesn't like saving money. I'll keep on doing some research, thanks again.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

No problem! It sounds like it's going to be a lovely tank  

I've not got much personal experience with barbs, but I've heard that Odessas are more peaceful.

I don't use ferts aside from some clay tablets that I put in the sand every now again. My plants are growing relatively well BUT they're all easy to care for, slow growing, and aren't a patch on some of the beautiful plants on this forum. Ferts are absolutely worth the money if you learn all about them and use them in tandem with CO2 and correct lighting, I've just always been more of a fish person than a plant person.


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## Boris Swede (Sep 29, 2018)

Personally I don't just want to know what I should have or do but why. If you understand the why then you can answer many of your own questions. Im sure there are many good you tube channels to watch but I keep coming back to this guy because he often explaines the why.
https://www.youtube.com/user/AquariumCoop


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## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

Hi, welcome. 

First, there’s about ten thousand right ways to do all of this, so you may need to find a good example from someone and follow their methods on your first time in. Basically, what @Fishfeet said above. Second, have fun with what you do, and don’t be afraid to try something out. 

Next, learn about the aquarium Nitrogen cycle. The established tank is possibly going to make that very easy, if the bacteria is still alive and kicking. Even a quick run-through of the basic info would be a good start. You don’t need to be a Biologist or a lab technician to succeed. 

Start with lots of plants. Lots. Most any kind of crypts are good choices, anubias, and java fern. Heck, moss balls can be a good starter plant. Stem plants are usually inexpensive, most are easy to grow: bacopa carolina or water wisteria perhaps. Some plants will melt and fail, some will spread fast. Lots of fertilizer methods discussed here at TPT, pick one you like (I use bottled fert all-in-one, supremely easy). 

Check out images from whatever source for scaping ideas. With the sand substrate, rearranging stuff later is no trouble - a good choice I think. Lay out your hardscape first, then the plants, then cycle, and then fish. 

Pick fish that will succeed in your water. My LFS uses RO for all their tanks, so I still need to be wary, and not cave into the desire to fill my liquid limestone tank full of furcata rainbows, even if they’re awesome. 

Find your local club and show up to a meeting. That’ll likely be the best resource you find, both for stuff and knowledge. 

Enjoy!


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Been watching plenty of cycle videos. I think this was one of the best ones and I believe I have a pretty good understanding of how it all works. 




I also went to the fish store last night and I was thoroughly impressed with the overall selection. Awesome pieces of driftwood, pallets of different rock and stone, a whole room dedicated to plants, and any other accessories I would need. Very helpful people too.

Thanks again for the help everyone.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

This is a hobby which leaves a lot of the decisions pretty well depending on what you feel like is best. But there are many ways to go to avoid some of the obvious pitfalls. My first thought for your tank is to find what your water has to offer and then avoid getting fish or plants which are more like your water. PH/GH and KH are the first big three to consider. Not that fish can't be kept in water less to their "prefered" but then the better way to avoid stress is to avoid putting fish in really bad conditions for them. Do not go too far in this way and decide you can't keep"X" fish type in a little less than preferred water but just keeping from putting a soft water guy into hard water tends to make it easier while getting the fish feet wet? 
Kind of like people, we can make do in weather that is 30 or 120 degrees but it tends to work better if we stay in 70 degrees. Fish can adapt but somewhat easier if they don't have to adapt too far. 
I tend to like the easy things and for me, that almost certainly means Java fern, Java moss if you like a thin veil of plant, Swords are good for me but mostly we need to find what will work and what we like. When I first started, all I wanted was to see some sort of success, if not, I planned to quit! That does not mean that all my plants grew and prospered, but plenty to feel right about going to the store and getting a few more and then just a few more until I'm a full blown junky!! 
Do not expect first day success. Remember how it goes in any other hobby? Take up golf and few balls never come home, fishing and a few lures wind up lost, so don't let it wipe you out if a few plants are lost on the way. They certainly are cheaper to replace than a new golf club!! 
For fish and starting, I might recommend looking for a fishkeeper near you and getting fish from them as they tend to be far more healthy and safer from disease than most any fish shop. A LFS fish is exposed to a wide range of things that a fish in a home tank is not! Just the stress of being in a shop is enough to almost kill many fish. Go any neighborhood websites where one might enquire about available fish? Fish are not permanent but more like roommates for me. They stay as long as agreeable and get moved when not doing well.


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Welp, here's what I have so far. The tank came with a biowheel 350 filter, a non adjustable heater, and 2 lights. I went to the fish place and got the rocks, wood, 2 little tissue culture plants, and an Aqueon Optibright + light. I also have a mesh bag in there with some of her old gravel.

I guess my only question is should I put any filter media in the HOB filter besides the 2 mesh screens?









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## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

Your filter needs will vary with time. For now, starting things up and only intending to keep some smaller fish, the mesh screens are okay. You'll want something that can catch any debris for easy removal. The filter will also help a bit with biological filtration functioning to turn your ammonia into nitrite then into nitrate, as the other users mentioned. The rotating biowheel can help with that. Just a tip, it'll get coated in hard water minerals over time, just put it into a cup with vinegar and it'll dissolve the minerals off.


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Thanks Blacktetra, I'm gonna stick with this filter for now then. She also gave me a Fluval 406 that I tried to get running but it was leaking and couldn't seem to get the air out of it. Maybe I'll give it a shot later down the road.


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## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

Shame the 406 is leaking. I have two, both bought used, along with tanks and other bits. If you can figure out the leak, spare/replacement parts are available - including the gasket. 
I keep one in a small bucket, after replacing the gasket - just in case. No leaks since, though. 

I’d put some sponge into the filter, whatever fits. While filter needs change over time, you really can’t have too much. 

I like the large wood pieces and the rock color. Some greenery will pop in contrast to them.


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

I really highly recommend that you look into fertilization. The bottom line is that plants need nutrients to grow. There are many different methods to deliver them, but there's no getting around that basic fact. My impression has been that people who don't dose fertilizers either 1) rely on fish waste and are very patient or 2) use rich substrates/root tabs and are more or less patient depending on CO2 use. Ferts are as deep a rabbit hole as you like, but if you want to start simple and dramatically increase your ability to grow plants, I would invest in an all-in-one fertilizer like Thrive (For example. There are others. This post not sponsored by NilocG.)

Regarding plants, resist the urge to start slow. Folks that have lush-looking tanks tend to stuff them full from the start. Anubias and java ferns are great options because they are low maintenance, look great, and you can stick them right to that amazing driftwood you found. They also take up a lot of space, which is nice in a big tank!


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## mpoppler (Oct 2, 2018)

Proteus01 said:


> Start with lots of plants. Lots.


Completely agree. Especially if you are opting for slow growing, hardy plants. A lush, full tank is more pleasing to the eye than a tank with only a few slow growing, hardy plants (that you hope will eventually grow to a more substantial size). In my experience becoming a tank owner leads to becoming a multiple tank owner. So plant the heck out of your first tank, you can always transplant or utilize cuttings in the inevitable additional tanks  Plus you'll have all the added benefits everyone else is mentioning (nitrogen absorption, nutrient absorption, O2 production, fry shelter, biofiltration, etc.).

Have fun! Don't get discouraged if things don't grow as planned and sadly sometimes fish die. Best thing you can do is arm yourself with knowledge, learn as you go and hope for the best. This forum and others like it can be a great source of information and overwhelming at the same time. Like others have said, find a handful of people whose philosophy aligns with yours and see what they have to say. Best of luck!!!


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Well, it's been an eventful couple days but I feel like I'm headed in the right direction.

Tuesday, I felt the need to add some even though it may have been a bit premature. 3 Nerite Snails, 5 Black Swordtails, and 4 Peppered Corys. 2 of the swords died by the next morning.

Got home yesterday and all the rest were still alive and I got a nice delivery from Amazon! Got a aquascaping kit (long tweezers, scissors, and a shovel thing), an API test kit, a thermometer, and a Hydor Koralia Nano 240 Circulation Pump. I also stopped by a nice little fish store and bought some nice looking plants which I now forget the name of.

So my water looks like it's staying around 76 degrees with the non adjustable heater. I then did the water test. Somewhere between 0 and .25ppm for ammonia, 0 nitrites, and nitrates were through the roof. I also had this weird rust colored stuff all in the filter and on the sand. So ahead I went with a gravel vac and 25% water change and I sprayed all the rust stuff out of the filter. I asked my friend up the road about it and he thinks it's due to not using a water conditioner when I started the tank. So he brought over his API water conditioner and I put some of that in with the new water. Nitrates went down to the 40 range a couple hours after the water change so I'm gonna keep a close eye on it. Possibly another water change today. I also must have stressed the swords out because I lost another one right after the change.

Other than that, the corys seem to be in great shape. They're extremely active and fun to watch. Also got the plants in during the water change. I'll get some updated pics tonight. I'm gonna give the plants a couple days to root in before throwing that pump in there. 

Sorry for the rant!


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## Kalyke (Dec 1, 2014)

I've been reading this, and I have noticed 1, you are a beginner and this is your first tank
2) you feel that the "tank" was established, but after you got it, you put it in a truck or whatever, and brought it home, which means you took it apart. You put new substrate, rocks etc., and did you put new filter medium? 

This means that it is not an established tank. It is not at all cycled. 

So putting fish in this tank means that you are fish-in cycling, which means that fish will die. 

So what I think here is that you have to go through the several months of cycling, send the fish back if they are valuable to you, if not, you might kill them. Cory catfish are known to be quite sensitive. 

Beneficial bacteria dies when it is dried out, or if any tap water with chlorine hits it. Cleaning a tank with tap water will kill them. Also the stuff inside the aquarium is what is home to the beneficial bacteria. By taking everything out and putting new stuff in, you cancelled the cycle and have to start over. 

The best thig you could have done was to take all of the stuff in the old tank, use it like it was yours, and gradually change out all the other things. A major thing like a substrate change will show an ammonia spike, and will crash any cycle you have. Putting a bunch of fish in when the tank is not ready is also asking for a problem. 

Getting substrate from a "shop" is also not a good idea. 

And in some cases blasting sand has oil in it. That will kill anything. 

Anyway, that is why the fish are dying.


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Kalyke said:


> I've been reading this, and I have noticed 1, you are a beginner and this is your first tank
> 2) you feel that the "tank" was established, but after you got it, you put it in a truck or whatever, and brought it home, which means you took it apart. You put new substrate, rocks etc., and did you put new filter medium?
> 
> This means that it is not an established tank. It is not at all cycled.
> ...


Yeah, I let my impatience get the best of me on this one. 

As for my next question. Why is my well water so high in nitrates straight out of the faucet and what can I do about it? The picture is after testing cold water straight from the tap. The tank water tests exactly the same.

And current tank shot of said new plants.
















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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

I know it seems like a lot of plants, but that's not really enough. Get some floating plants (I recommend red root floater, salvinia minima, or frogbit for a 55g) to suck up excess nutrients while your other plants grow in. 

To quick cycle your tank, see if you can get a friend to squeeze out their filter media into some tank water. You want that cup of water to be brown. Pour it into your tank and feed the tank some ammonia or fish food until you get fish. You can also ask your local pet store to give you some of their filter rinsings or even some gravel from one of their tanks. You might get diseases or snails, though.


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## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

Having high nitrate levels in your tap makes fishkeeping a bit more tricky.
The most expensive way to solve this, is to buy an RODI system and add 50% of that purified water to your tap, to cut those levels in half. But that's a very expensive, and labor intensive route.
It's hard to tell just how high nitrate levels are with that test kit, once they break 40 or 60. 80 looks the same as 120, same as 200 (not that anyone's tap should have levels that high)

@Fishly is right that some floating plants will help suck up that nitrate and turn it into plant mass, but you ultimately still have a bit of a problem. People recommend water changes to reduce things like nitrate, but in your case, a water change might increase it. You'll need to keep that in mind, maybe start another thread to see what people recommend, though I'm guessing the only recommendations you'll get are buying distilled water, or an RODI filter. With a tank that big, buying 20-40 gallons of distilled water for a water change is pretty impractical. Perhaps other local fish people know of some good options.

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST:
Fast changes in nitrate levels can shock, and kill fish. If your tank is at 120 nitrate, and you think "oh no! that's not good" then change 2/3rds of the water out with distilled water (0 Nitrate) you can kill your fish from the shock. Same with adding new fish to a high nitrate level tank. If the pet store uses an RODI system and nitrates in their tank are ~15ppm and you add those fish to your 120ppm tank, they will not do well. Also, ammonia is pretty toxic too, I would recommend not adding any more livestock. Your filter will slowly build beneficial bacteria if they are introduced, either from a beneficial bacteria product you can buy at the store, or from filter "juice" from a friend. As they build, they will convert all ammonia to nitrite and then a new colony of beneficial bacteria (different species) will change the nitrite to nitrate, which will only serve to increase your nitrate levels. So while getting the tank "cycled" (filled with beneficial bacteria) is a very important goal, so is finding a way to reduce/manage your nitrate levels, and while plants will help absorb nitrates, it's a lot easier to just manually remove them with a water change, if you can find a way to be equipped to do so. (of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, the last stage is least toxic to fish, which is why the beneficial bacteria are doing a good thing, even though you ultimately don't want the nitrate they produce.)

I'm sure some others in the forums can jump in to help, though it might be worth starting a new thread with a summary of your current situation, and asking for help on plans going forward.


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## Boris Swede (Sep 29, 2018)

I would treat the tank with a product called "Sera Bio Nitrivec" (there may be other brands that do the same thing).
As for the water issue I can think of two things:

Collect rainwater in sufficient amounts to dilute your tap water.

Have a tub outside full of floating plants that reduce the nitrate in the water which you then use for your water changes.


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## Kalyke (Dec 1, 2014)

High nitrates in groundwater might be caused by farms or feedlot runoff leaching through the bedrock and getting into the well. It's pollution. You'd need a water company official to tell you the exact reason. States that are highly populated (like MD) usually allow a certain amount of pollutants in order to allow corporations to pollute and get away with it. Sorry for the hippie talk, but blame the politicians. 

Rain may be your only option.


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## fishfearme (Oct 7, 2018)

That's a shame about the nitrates. Kalyke has a good point about rain water. I'm starting a 55 gallon myself and am thinking of doing the same due to hard water. A water barrel would definitely be less costly than RO or similar. Good luck with your tank! I look forward to seeing it grow. Hopefully, I can post mine soon.


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Well, it's been a few weeks so I suppose it's time for an update. The death of the swordtails bothered me so the week after, I went and bought 10 Zebra Danios. We'll call them test fish in this case although I'm not a fish torturer. I just wanted to try a well known hardy/cheap fish and see how they reacted. Well they're all going great and they're pretty cool fish so they're here to stay. I also added a few plants that week. 

Then a week and a half after that, I got the itch to add some more. I went and got 10 Cherry Barbs, 4 Panda Corys, and 3 Zebra Nerites. Got home and realized that they gave me 8 Barbs with 2 Longfin Leopard Danios mixed in. Not a big deal, they swim with the other Danios. Also got the last batch of plants.

But long story short, everyone is still alive and they're all very active which I believe is a good sign. The plants don't really seem to be "growing" but I didn't expect them to in a low tech tank. I have been putting a capful of Flourish in one or two times a week. I'm also finally starting to get some algae which the snails are liking.

Lastly, I've been doing some research and some people think the 40-80ppm of nitrates isn't exactly as bad as others think. Now I'm not saying that it's good but at least it's consistent which some people seem to praise. I'm going to keep an eye on the well water because we've had an insane amount of rain this year so this would be the time to have high nitrates so with any luck, maybe it'll work out. And sorry for the crappy cell phone pics.

Anyway, here some pics of what I have so far. It's definitely nice to enjoy after work.






























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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

And a full tank shot from last night.









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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

I'm glad your fish are doing okay right now, but I'd really like to discourage you from buying more fish until your tank is fully cycled and you have a plan for lowering nitrates in your water. 

Nitrates in those ranges *will* shorten your fishes' lifespans. Some people keep nitrates high in order to help their plants grow, however, you do not have enough plants or CO2 to warrant this.

It's really easy to get carried away and add loads of fish to your new tank, but you have to remember that we are responsible for every facet of their lives, and right now they're in an environment that's actively damaging them. Make sure to test your water regularly as I'd be surprised if you don't suffer at least a small ammonia spike from adding that many fish. It's probably worth buying a product like Seachem Stability, which will help set up beneficial bacteria and should lessen the cycle's effects on your fish. As I said in a previous post, make sure to read up as much as you can on the nitrogen cycle. 

Also - are you using a water conditioner for every water change? I'd recommend another product, Seachem Prime, as this will help detoxify ammonia while your biological filtration deals with it.


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Thanks for the response. Yeah, I'm not adding any more livestock until I get this nitrate thing figured out. I'm just trying to find an economical solution. I'm thinking the easiest will be to grab two 5 gallon jugs of drinking water every week for water changes and eventually I'll be able to stretch the changes out a little further once I get the nitrates down.

I've been testing the water every 3 days or so and in all my tests, ammonia and nitrite has been 0.

I've been changing 10 gallons a week and treating it with API tap water conditioner but I've seen a lot of recommendations for Prime.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

That sounds like an economical idea, but you may need to add trace minerals to the water. Totally doable, I'm sure, but I'm afraid I can't help you there.

Really glad to hear you haven't had an ammonia spike! I recommend Prime as my local water supplier started using chloramine without much warning, causing me to lose a lot of fish. If I'd used Prime for the start, this wouldn't have happened. API is great though, it just depends on how much you trust your supplier and doesn't have the same effects on ammonia.


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Well I have well water so no chlorine or chloramine but there's not much I can do when it comes to the nitrate issue.


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## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

For what it's worth, the tank looks nice. 🙂


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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Yeah, I think so. If everything grows in like I hope, I think it'll be a nice setup for my first tank. The grass up front and the big leaf plant in the center are growing the best.

So last night, I picked up 10 gallons of spring water for a water change. Thankfully, it tested 0 nitrates and a very close pH to my well water so I think I found my solution. I'm gonna try to work the nitrates down slowly like you said Blacktetra. In the long run, it'll be nice if I only have to do a 10 gallons water change every 2 weeks or so as far as cost is concerned. 

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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Update time? 

Nitrates are coming down slowly with weekly 10 gallon water changes with jugged drinking water.

Current/final livestock.
10 Zebra Danios
2 Leopard Danios
11 Cherry Barbs
7 Marbled Hatchetfish
10 Nerite Snails
2 Spike Snails

With the newest addition of Hatchetfish, I ordered some Frogbit today to give them something to kind of hang out under. As far as the rest of the plants, they seem to be doing fairly well.

The big thing just left of center is growing like crazy and looks great. The tall things to the right started some new growth about 2 weeks ago and seem to be doing good too. The Monte Carlo and the grass stuff is starting to spread out a little but the leaves on the grass are all twisted. Lastly, the Red Ludwigia isn't doing much, it gets the least amount of light of everything though. Any suggestions there?

Other than that, I'm pretty happy with it for now.












































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## fortyeightjake (Oct 9, 2018)

Forgot to mention, I glued some Java Moss to the wood, it's about half dead/half alive so I'm hoping it bounces back and makes it. 

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