# ADA Aquasoil and Ammonia



## amazonangel

I set up a new tank about 3 weeks ago with ADA Aquasoil Amazonia II. I heard that it is supposed to leach Ammonia... but for how long?!?! I put filter media in this tank from another so it should have plenty of bacteria to convert the ammonia but it does not. Some of my "high maintenance" plants are melting and I assume its from this. Can anyone let me know how long it leaches ammonia and if there is any way I could speed up the process? Thanks!


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## OVT

Roughly 4-6 weeks. You can do daily massive water changes, add a lot of fast growing plants. There is a bunch of threads on this subject on TPT.

v3


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## amazonangel

Thanks, I have read many threads about it. I just wanted some new opinions. Guess I'll just have to be patient


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## TankYouVeryMuch

Not to jump in here with no info but...

I agree. A lot of times im reading threads from 2011-2012 and not sure if "best" info is in that thread...

Its all forums are anyway, same questions over and over, just different people, different years... Theres always noobs


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## gus6464

If you plant heavily you don't need water changes. I bet AS leeches ammonia for a lot longer than 4-6 weeks but by that time most people's tanks are cycled so doesn't matter.


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## fplata

You most certainly need water changes period. 


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## gus6464

fplata said:


> You most certainly need water changes period.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## OVT

fplata said:


> You most certainly need water changes period.


Absolute statements are absolutely wrong .
There are many ways to skin a cat.


v3


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## amazonangel

Ive been doing 75% water changes every other day. That keeps ammonia down to .25ppm. If I dont do the changes it jumps up to 1ppm. Im sure if it wasnt heavily planted it would be much higher. I bought some seachem stability last night and I'm going to see for myself if it actually works. Ill keep updating with my results until it gets to 0.


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## amazonangel

The weird thing about this is that Nitrites have always been 0. Any other time a tank is cycling ammonia jumps, them nitrite jumps, and then nitrates. But for some reason I've noted with ADA Aquasoil its only Ammonia.


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## OVT

You actually might want some ammonia - let your BB colony grow up.

v3


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## amazonangel

Ya I thought about that.. but I think I'd prefer to keep it closest to 0 as possible and then slowly add fish which in turn will slowing increase the BB. I'm getting impatient on transferring my cardinal tetras to this tank, and do not want to risk any ammonia with them


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## fplata

OVT said:


> Absolute statements are absolutely wrong .
> There are many ways to skin a cat.
> 
> 
> v3


But only one right way to work with Amazonia. Also name one way to use Amazonia where you do not need to change water? 


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## xmas_one

Not to start an arguement, but I've done all of my AS tanks fully planted from the beginning with zero water changes with excellent results. You paid big money for a fertilized substrate, why would you want to dilute it with WC's?


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## Diana

Actually you DO want to allow the ammonia to be higher to grow the bacteria colony as fast as possible. 

You are looking at 2 cycles here, and confusing one with the other. 

1) The ADA Amazonia cycle. 
It will keep on producing ammonia. 
It does not care if bacteria are growing. 
It does not care if plants are removing it. 
It does not care if water changes are removing it. (If you understand equilibrium, then you will understand why you are doing water changes while the soil is going through its cycle)
It will keep on producing ammonia for about a month. (3-6 weeks is most common, up to 8 weeks, perhaps)

2) The growth of the nitrifying bacteria. 
This will take about 3 weeks if you follow the fishless cycle (see the part of this post under the line). 
The soil is a good source of ammonia for this, but not if you keep lowering the ammonia level to .25 ppm. The bacteria need more food to grow faster. 

Combine the information from 1) and 2)
Do the fishless cycle. You have a built in source of ammonia. 
If the soil slows down its production of ammonia toward the end of the fishless cycle you may need to add some from a bottle. 

Do not throw away this opportunity to grow all the bacteria your tank needs. 
You gotta wait out the soil's cycle anyway. So use that time productively. Grow bacteria. 

You can jump start the colony by adding Nitrospira, but do not then starve them by removing all the ammonia. Follow the levels in this article, and you can add the Cardinals the soonest. That is, when the water tests 0 ppm ammonia and nitrite. 

The soil might still be releasing some ammonia, but a lot less than when it was first submerged. You will have a big enough colony of bacteria and thriving plants so the ammonia will be under control. Waiting longer is fine, too. You may have to start adding ammonia from a bottle to keep the bacteria thriving. 
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Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details. 

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium. 

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks. 

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water. 
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine. 
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine. 
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated. 
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful. 
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation. 
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort. 
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required. 
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different. 

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else. 
At the time this was written the right species could be found in: 
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others. 
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast. 

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though. 
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below. 

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm. 

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm. 

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm. 

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours. 

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high! 
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1b) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off. 
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better. 
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen. 
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well. 
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations. 

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.


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## amazonangel

Wow, there are a lot of opinions on this matter. I obviously understand that ammonia needs to be present for the BB to grow. I still do not think it would be necessary to leave all the ammonia in the water. If the Amazonia leeches ammonia for 3-8 weeks, then once it has stopped leaching(or dramically decreases), then all of the excess BB will die off anyway. I might as well keep the ammonia at the level it will be at in the long run. I already have plenty of BB at the moment seeing that my level is slightly below .25ppm today. I haven't done a water change in 2 days. I think I should be go to go by next week! :icon_bigg. 

P.S. I decided to return the stability, so I'm not sure if it works or not... I really don't need to spend any more $$ than I already have


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## larns576

I put about 4l in a 10g tank a few weeks ago. Tank was already cycled and I added in more mature media from another tank. Took 2 weeks total with only a couple 20pct water changes during that time. After it reached 0.25ppm Ammonia, it only took a few more days to drop to 0.

Water changes aren't absolutely necessary unless you want to help speed it up or have a problem.


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## gus6464

I cycled a brand new tank in 3 weeks with Amazonia and 0 water changes. Ammonia level got sky high at one point (8+ ppm) and nothing bad happened. I haven't seen ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate ever since.

My tank is now as low maintenance as can be. I top off about a gallon of water a week and haven't done a water change in over a month. My GBR are spawning like rabbits now too.


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## OVT

fplata said:


> But only one right way to work with Amazonia. Also name one way to use Amazonia where you do not need to change water?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Read my journals. Too bad I did my last 4 tanks the wrong way.

v3


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## Diana

> ...once it has stopped leaching(or dramically decreases), then all of the excess BB will die off anyway.


Not if you feed them. That is what I said in my previous post (page 1). 

Once the ammonia seems to have dropped to under 3 ppm, start adding ammonia to keep the colony thriving while you work on the hardscape, planting, and fine tune the equipment. Just like you were doing the fishless cycle. 

When all that is done, a giant water change, or 2 of them will get the tank ready for fish. 
The fishless cycle produces a LOT of nitrate. 
The plants are removing nitrogen in all its forms. 
No way to say what the level will be at the end. Just plan on doing a water change, and the fish will be fine.


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## Hoppy

amazonangel said:


> The weird thing about this is that Nitrites have always been 0. Any other time a tank is cycling ammonia jumps, them nitrite jumps, and then nitrates. But for some reason I've noted with ADA Aquasoil its only Ammonia.


That was my experience with Aquasoil too. I didn't start monitoring nitrite for about a week or 10 days, so I assumed the nitrite consuming bacteria grew during that period. In any case, I never did see a positive nitrite reading.


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## Master503

Hi all,

I also start a new ebi 7.9gal tank with Ada soil, been two days now the water still not crystal clear, i did about 90% of wc in this two days. Is this normal?


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## Hoppy

If you disturb the substrate when you add new water it will be hard to ever get "crystal clear" water without lots of good filtration. My water was pretty clear right after adding it the first time, but I was very careful not to disturb the substrate.


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## Master503

I did carefully fill in water, but now 3rd days look better ... After 5-6 water changes ... I also run 2 of 30 gal HOB filters, hopefully it can cycle quicker because one of the media cartridge I took from my other cycled tank.


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## amazonangel

Just to update, a few days after I last posted last, ammonia dropped to 0, I added my cardinals and it still at 0 today. Guess I was just getting a little impatient!


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish

How are your Nitrates?


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