# From Shore to Summit, my 21 Long (UNS 90L)



## Ventchur (Apr 29, 2018)

Hype!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

So I went to the LFS today to pick out hardscape - Happy Father's Day to me! I'm lucky in that one of my LFS has a whole dumpster full of dragon stone:










So I managed to put this together:










I really like the rock feature on the left. It will separate the stems (left 1/3rd of tank) from the dwarf hair grass in the middle. In my mind, it's near final, other than maybe adding a small rock on it's left side to transition from the big stone to the substrate.

The rock feature on the right needs some work. It will separate the dwarf hair grass from the sand. I may end up playing it by ear after I dump substrate in. I also got this big, sweet-looking rock, which I can break up to make the craggy shoreline.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

It's been a while; unfortunately, life got in the way. I also think that I was procrastinating with breaking down the old tank and dealing with all of the muck and gunk. I finally did it this week and I'm almost done with my RODI water setup. Today I moved the tank to the stand and I wanted to thank everyone for weighing in and recommending that I go with the long tank. It fits perfectly in the pictures that I already had hanging.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I leak-tested the tank this weekend, and it looks like we're good to go. The next step is to install white privacy film on the back of the tank like I did with my cube tank.

I also finished my water mixing/changing station:










More details here.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Finally, I'm making some progress. Tonight I began building the rock structure that will divide the middle "plain" section from the left stem section. This is the left rock structure that I put together at my LFS. I modified it a bit by rotating the main rock to show a more detailed side, as opposed to having that side fact the top of the tank:










This is a 45-degree rotation to toward the middle of the tank, showing the cave that I built into the design, which should provide a comfy home for cave breeders (I'm thinking of getting a pair of apistos).










Finally, this is the opposite side of the structure, which is kind of empty.










I'm thinking of adding some rock to flesh it out and close off the other end of the cave, but at the same time, it faces the back of the tank, so no one will see it. Let me know what you think about adding more rock.

For those interested, I used the cigarette filter and crazy glue technique to glue the rocks together. I will go back at some point and glue crushed rocks over the exposed filters to hide them. It only took about 10-15 filters to firmly hold the structure together.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

A pair of apistos may root up your hairgrass. I am excited to see how this works!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

More progress:


















I will be adding more substrate at the back of the tank to slope up, as well as sloping all areas from the front to back. The next step, before that, will be to create the "rocky shoreline" to separate the sand from the dirt.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

I love your water changing/mixing station! very well done. What will your water parameters be after you dose the RODI?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Right now I'm remineralizing with CaS04.2H20 to 25ppm and MgSO4.7H2O to 10 ppm, which yields a TDS slightly over 100. This is based on some of the recommendations that I've received on this board. I am not adding any kH in view of my substrate (Tropica). I'm hoping that the plants will really like the soft water.


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## PurdueGK (May 16, 2015)

Really nice start! I love your scape and your RODI setup. I used to have a saltwater reef tank so RODI is a must. I am going to go ahead and use RODI for my future planted tank. I am just going to use Seachem Equilibrium to replenish the minerals that are needed for plants. I really need to work on my RODI setup. I would love something like you have. Having that setup makes water changes so much easier. What kind of fish or inverts are you thinking for this setup?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

PurdueGK said:


> Really nice start! I love your scape and your RODI setup. I used to have a saltwater reef tank so RODI is a must. I am going to go ahead and use RODI for my future planted tank. I am just going to use Seachem Equilibrium to replenish the minerals that are needed for plants. I really need to work on my RODI setup. I would love something like you have. Having that setup makes water changes so much easier. What kind of fish or inverts are you thinking for this setup?


Thank you! I'm thinking of green neon tetras as my schooling fish. From there, I would like to have 6x ottos and 6x pygmy corydoras, and a pair of apistogramma caucatoides. I've also considered stiphodon gobies instead of the ottos.

I will definitely have amano shrimp in the mix. I'm not sure whether I will have nerites again if I am going to have so many algae eaters in the tank. I am also going to try establishing colonies of tangerine tiger shrimp and black rilis before I add fish, with the understanding that they may turn into expensive fish food :grin2:


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Plumbing is now complete:


















I ended up having to go with the nano JARDLI inflow because the regular size would be too deep for this tank (12" high). I would have liked to have the intake slits closer to the substrate, but I guess I'm stuck. The height restriction also ruled out using the JARDLI inflow with built in skimmer, which is why I went with the separate skimmer unit you see in the pictures.

Finally, I can't wait to have this thing planted and to play with the different color lights at night time:


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Final hardscape is in place!


































I'm going to post a planting list soon so that I can get your feedback/advice.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Very nice! Do have a general idea yet of what you are stocking?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

aquanerd13 said:


> Very nice! Do have a general idea yet of what you are stocking?


Yes, I'm thinking of green neon tetras as my schooling fish. From there, I would like to have 6x ottos and 6x pygmy corydoras, and a pair of apistogramma caucatoides. It's tough because there are so many great options for schooling fish. For example, I had a bad experience with CPDs a while ago, but I think this tank, with more space and a lot more hiding spaces could be great for them. But I'd hate to have them hide most of the time, whereas I think that the green neons would be out in the open and take advantage of the swimming length.

I was looking into stiphodon gobies at one point instead of ottos, but I don't think that I'll have enough flow for them (some sites I've read recommend a minimum 10x flow).


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Below is my proposed planting list and layout. Please let me know what you think and if I am making any grave mistakes!










1. Blyxa Japonica
2. Eleocharis Parvula (DHG)
3. Rununculus Inundatas
4. Cryptocoryne Wenditi Brown
5. Cryptocoryne Albida Red
6. Pogostemon Helferi
7. Alternanthera Reineckii ‘Mini”
8. Cryptocoryne Wendtii Kompakt
9. Cryptocoryne Beckettii
10. Myriophyllum Guyana
11. Ludwigia Repens ‘Rubin’

I'll also be picking up a few bucephalandra species to add to rock formations.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Planting day is here. It took orders from four different online retailers, but I received all of the plants I wanted except for Pogostemon Helferi, which I've left a spot for. Here are some top-down shots:


































And here are some side shots:

























Overall, I'm pretty happy with the results. My plan is to be hyperactive with water changes over the next few weeks to try to keep algae at bay. I'm going to do a 50% water change every day for the first week, every other day the second week, and every third day the third week. I'm also going to slowly ramp up light duration and intensity, and I am going to hold off on dosing fertilizer for a few weeks.

Current Settings
Light Duration: 5 hours
Light Intensity: 2/7 on dimmer
Macros: 0
Micros: 0


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## rdvanput (May 5, 2019)

Very nice setup! I’ll be interested to see more updates!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

So I'm a few days into the new setup. I'm seeing some melt on the Blyxa Japonica and a slight amount on some of the crypts, but I think that I'm in decent shape. I wanted to share my pH measurements from my reef-pi setup that I use to tune CO2:










The first dip coincides with starting CO2 two hours before lights on yesterday, which was only a 0.2 drop, so, obviously, not enough CO2. I then cranked the CO2 up a decent amount, which caused another 0.3 drop in two hours before the value reached equilibrium. The spike is due to my water change, followed by a further dip because I turned the CO2 up higher. Then the pH steadily increased overnight because the CO2 is off when lights are off.

This was interesting to me because my previous tank was a cube tank with a lot less surface area relative to the tank volume, so I didn't have to inject nearly as much CO2 to get a big drop. With this tank, I also have a lot of surface agitation and a skimmer running, which further necessitates higher injection.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Pluses and minuses today. On the plus side, it looks like my DHG is starting to send out new runners:










On the minus side, my AR mini looks like it is melting:










Should I be concerned about the AR mini? Should I trim the leaves that look like they're melting or leave them alone?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm 1.5 weeks into the new tank and depressed at what is going on. I have big-time melt:


















Some people seem able to throw plants into their tank and run from the get go. But after more reading, such as Dennis Wong's site, it looks like this is to be expected from tissue culture plants (which I used almost exclusively). For context, I'm using remineralized RO water, which I remineralize using Mg and Ca, which gives me a GH of 5 an 0 KH. PH is about 6.2-6.3 at its peak, then drops approximately 1.3 during injection.

CO2 looks like I am injecting a ton, which should put the plants in a good place on that front. 










The only concern with the CO2 is that my bubble counter is going crazy, and I didn't have to turn the needle valve much to get there, so I am going to leak check today, then work with the manufacturer to determine whether the needle valve is broken.

Today I dosed some K2SO4 and added some traces, but otherwise I have yet to start fertilization. Lighting is running at 5.5 hours at 3/7 on the dimmer.

Finally, I received the first iteration of the bracket I designed for my ATO, temperature probe, and dosing lines. I'm going to refine the design, but it turned out pretty well.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Hey! 3D printed bracket! Very cool. I like the radius you incorporated to keep the tubing from kinking. Access to a printer would be really useful (if I could design anything!)

Sorry about the melt. I had a similar experience setting up a new tank with tisssue culture plants. At the time, i added some of the same plants to a mature tank and - no melt. Life is a little harsh in the initial stages of getting these things up and running. One other data point, I am also starting a new tank with Aquasoil and remineralized RODI. 0 kh. I see the same low pH and worry abit about the plants I selected being able to handle an acid environment. So far the only melts I have had are a few crypts. The other plants ( not tissue culture) are doing OK

Good luck and I hope they bounce back


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

billb said:


> Hey! 3D printed bracket! Very cool. I like the radius you incorporated to keep the tubing from kinking. Access to a printer would be really useful (if I could design anything!)
> 
> Sorry about the melt. I had a similar experience setting up a new tank with tisssue culture plants. At the time, i added some of the same plants to a mature tank and - no melt. Life is a little harsh in the initial stages of getting these things up and running. One other data point, I am also starting a new tank with Aquasoil and remineralized RODI. 0 kh. I see the same low pH and worry abit about the plants I selected being able to handle an acid environment. So far the only melts I have had are a few crypts. The other plants ( not tissue culture) are doing OK
> 
> Good luck and I hope they bounce back


Thanks! This is my first time using a 3D printer. I do not have one myself. I used the free version of SketchUp, then uploaded the design to a service that farms out your design to a ton of 3D printers, then returns the lowest price for each material. It's really great. I don't think that I would 3D print enough things to warrant my own printer.

Can you elaborate more on your experience with tissue culture plants? Did you go through a traditional cycle with adding ammonia, etc.? Was there some marker that let you know that the tank was mature enough for tissue culture plants? Did you add tissue culture plants after the tank matured?


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the melt mate.
Kept up with water changes? 

After using aquasoil I began to realise how bad the melt was, I felt like it encouraged melt actually. Burning stems from the root up and just causing havoc. Latest tank, chose to run the system for 2 weeks prior with the water change schedule. This helped, but still there was melt. 
Unfortunately I dont think there is anything your could have done other than having a substrate that wasn't going to be so heavy in ammonia. 
Dont get discouraged, it's annoying, but nothing a little bit of money cant help (once again, it sucks though).


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

I have Sketch up. I am going to have to look into this!

Wish I could tell you that I had more info on about my tissue culture experience but it is pretty bare bones. I set up a tank that was primarily composed of crypts. It was aqua soil and RODI and all except one species of TC crypts melted (C. undulata) One species, C crispatula, was divided up between a 2yr old tank (aquasoil and rodi) and the new tank. All of the plants in the new tank melted but none did in the 2yr old tank. Stable conditions? Less Nitrite/ammonia? I did not do any indepth comparisons. Sorry about that. If it is any consolation. All but the crypt parva came back. Not sure how the stem plants will do for you Seems like they have less of a reserve to help regrow


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Things might be getting better! I think that I am seeing new growth in both the DHG and the blyxa japonica:


















I think that I am going to continue with the daily water changes for at least another week until the melt clears. I will also be dosing micros and K2SO4 according to the regular EI schedule, but holding off on phosphate and nitrate for another week.

Finally, with my bracket in place, I once again have temperature monitoring for my tank. Looking over the last day, the heater in my Oase BioMaster Thermo is very consistent, keeping the temperature within about 0.3 degrees:










Bump: I should note that the spike in the temperature is from my last water change, when the temperature sensor was exposed to air.


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## DanZ (Mar 3, 2019)

Nice tank with nice setup. I also have long tank but only 9 gallons. I've tried to plant hairgrass twice. Once with new setup and once with 2 month tank. Both times the grass melted. It gets pretty frustrating.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I started dosing ferts, so here is an update on the setup and what I'm doing. I'm following EI dosing protocol, using dosing pumps. I created mixtures that use a 30ml dose in 1000ml dosing containers. I can go with more concentrated doses, but I chose this to give me room to tailor the dose without having to remix, ease of dissolving everything in solution, and it gives more margin for inaccuracies with the dosing pumps. When things are dialed in, I plan to up the concentration to reduce the frequency of mixing solution.

Micros
GLA EDTA+DTPA Micromix = 5.94g in 1,000ml

Macros
GLA KNO3 = 30.86g
KH2PO4 = 4.7g
K2SO4 = 4.7g

And here are pictures of the setup (Kamoer X1 Bluetooth pumps):

























I also have more plants coming in the mail (which will hopefully not melt given the tank is more mature now!), so I'll post again after I plant them.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

So dosing has been going well and I'm starting to see really nice growth on my stems. They're even branching without being trimmed yet.










Melted crypts are also starting to come back in force:










DHG... not so much. I'm going to give it some more time. And I really need to clean up the diatoms/algae on the sand.










One more thing, pH has gotten kind of wonky, varying between 6.1 and 5.7 before I start injection, so I am going to raise the kH up to 1 (it is currently zero) using Potassium Bicarbonate to see if that helps. A big drop in pH coincided with adding some nitrifying bacteria to the tank.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

That looks very nice! What kind of skimmer is that in the corner?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Streetwise said:


> That looks very nice! What kind of skimmer is that in the corner?


It is an Ocean Free Surfclear skimmer, which has been working really well. If you look at the pictures, I had a stainless steel model, which I purchased early on. Although it looked great, it was extremely loud and required removal from the aquarium for cleaning. The Surfclear is silent, has a diffuse output, rather than a directed jet (which some may like, some may not), and you can clean the sponge without removing the entire unit. The Surfclear is available for about $25 on eBay.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Slowly but surely!

My tank has definitely gone through a period of "the uglies," but I think that it's on its way back. Stems are looking great. I replaced the Myriophyllum Guyana with Limnophila aromatica. The lower branches of the Limnophila aromatica are struggling, but new growth looks good. So I am going to give those stems another week before I top and re-plant. The Ludwigia Repens ‘Rubin’ is really doing well. It is branching all over the place, getting nice and bushy. So I am going to top it and re-plant as well. The AR mini has thrown down some deep roots, so I think that it is in good enough shape for me to trim the tops and replant them to add some density.

The DHG has been hanging in there, throwing out new leaves, but no explosive growth yet. So I bought another tissue culture cup of it, thinking that I needed to add more plant density to the tank, rather than wait for the original DHG to catch up. I'm hoping that the tank is sufficiently mature by this point for the DHG to get going. As of now, the newly planted DHG is pearling!

As for fauna, I added two otocinclus and give amano shrimp. I've been going aggressively after the hair algae with nightly hydrogen peroxide and manual removal, which is creating a dent in it. With the health of the tank improving and my elbow grease, I'm hoping that I can win the battle.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I had a nasty hair algae infestation that coincided with some issues with my CO2 delivery, so I took advantage by running a blackout treatment for a few days while I built my DIY regulator. The tank came out crystal clear and the plants did well. I also took the time to trim back a lot of the older crypt growth (as well as entangled AR growth near the front), which developed pinholes. With things stabilized, I am going to give it a few weeks to determine whether the pinholes were related to the algae infestation or if I need to add more K to my macro dosing. I'm also hoping that this latest round of fixes will finally result in my DHG taking off.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I don't want to jinx it, but the tank is looking pretty healthy at this point. I have my light close to full strength with a photoperiod of 6.5 hours. If things hold well for another week, I will bump it up to 7 hours to accelerate growth and hopefully get the DHG filling in faster. I made a few additions to the tank--both plants and livestock.

ALTERNANTHERA BETTZICKIANA AUREA appears to be happy because it is already pearling.










And thanks to @khanzer22 for the awesome tangerine tiger shrimp.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

This is going to be a long one. Plants are generally growing really well: stems are throwing off a ton of side shoots and pearl like crazy. New growth is also very dense (low internode distance). And my DHG is starting to throw off runners. So far I haven't seen anymore hair/thread algae.










But I've noticed for a while that my crypts and anubias nana (the crypts really show it) have light-colored growth, and the new leaves don't look a little anemic. So I ran a battery of tests hoping that I can get some help from the experts. I'd definitely like to hear from @Seattle_Aquarist, considering the help he gave me on my last tank.

So here it goes.

Remineralized RODI Water
I use remineralized RODI water because my whole-home water softener was killing plants and there was no reasonable way to plumb a bypass. I remineralize with the following:

Ca: CaSO4.2H2O brings it to 25ppm Ca
Mg: MgSO4.7H2O brings it to 10 ppm Mg
KHCO3 added to add some kH, and adds approximately 15ppm of K

This tests out as follows:
gH=7
kH=2
TDS=128

Water chemistry for remineralized water has been verified with ICP analysis.

Fertilization/Lighting
I follow EI dosing. I use two Kamoer X1 dosing pumps to automatically dose my ferts (Mon, Wed, Fri for macros; Tue, Thur, Sat for micros). I do a 60% water change every Sunday. Substrate is Tropica soil without any addition of root tabs.

Lighting is a Twinstar 900S at close to full strength (one dimmer position below full) that runs for 6.5 hours per day.

My tank volume is 18 gallons with hardscape and plants, but I rounded to 20 gallons for all calculations using Rotala Butterfly. I setup the dosing solutions in 1000ml containers, with each dose at 30ml.

Micros (Green Leaf Aquariums EDTA+DTPA MICROMIX): 5.94g. This should give me the following in each dose:

Element	ppm/degree
Fe	0.2
B	0.035
Mn	0.057
Mo	0.002
Zn	0.011
Cu	0.003

KNO3: 30.86g. This should give me the following in each dose:

Element	ppm/degree
NO3	7.5
N	1.69
K	4.73

KH2PO4: 4.7g. This should give me the following in each dose:

Element	ppm/degree
PO4	1.3
P	0.42
K	0.54

K2SO4: 4.7g. This should give me the following in each dose:

Element	ppm/degree
K	0.84
S	0.34

Tank Measurements
Below is a recent ICP analysis for my tank:









And these are the parameters that I tested:
pH (before CO2 injection): 6.6
pH (peak drop of CO2 injection): 5.3
gH: 6
kH: 2
TDS: 155
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
Phosphate: 0

Deficiencies/Algae
As I mentioned, I had a lot of hair/filamentous algae in the beginning. I corrected it by doing a 5-day blackout treatment, followed by a bunch of water changes and getting my CO2 dialed in. I think the tissue plants I chose in the beginning simply didn't like my tank environment in its immature state. I've been algae free for about two weeks. BUT, GSA has crept in and seemed to accelerate along with the increased growth of my plants.

Here are the deficiencies I am seeing:
Cryptocoryne Beckettii









Cryptocoryne Wenditi Brown and Cryptocoryne Albida Red melted upon planting, came back for a bit, and have melted again.

ALTERNANTHERA BETTZICKIANA AUREA is pearling and throwing off shoots, but it looks lighter than when I first got it.









Anubias Nana Petite, showing GSA, but very light new leaves with wrinkling.









My Thoughts
My initial thought, before the GSA, was that I was looking at a K deficiency due to the chlorosis. But I think the ICP results show that there is enough K in the tank water. With the breakout of GSA, my current thought is that I have a phosphate deficiency, which is confirmed by my in-tank measurement. If so, that's surprising given that each dose should be giving me 1.3ppm. Could the phosphate on my macro solution reacted and gone bad? Do I simply need to add more? Or am I completely off the mark?

Due to my previous issues with the water softener, this is the first time that I've brought a tank to this stage, so I'm admittedly a bit out of my depth. I'd really appreciate some help!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit,

Nice start on this tank! First I looked at the pictures, then I looked at your parameters. My first thought was insufficient iron (Fe) due to the chlorosis and interveinal chlorosis on the the new leaves. Looking at your dosing levels and readings I agree that your phosphate (P) level needs to increase; I tend to keep my PO4 level at about 5.0 or slightly less. I also dose my iron at higher levels, typically I dose 0.4 ppm twice a week.

If it were me I would tackle iron level first and bring that up. Why? Because phosphorus (P)is a mobile nutrient and normally a plant will 'steal' P from older leaves and move it to new growth. When this happens leaves become 'off-color' and premature leaf drop occurs on older or recently matured leaves. Iron on the other hand is an immobile nutrient and if it is deficient then new leaves exhibit the chlorosis and interveinal chlorosis that we see in the pictures (BTW, nice shots!). I believe both will eventually need to be addressed.

Keep us posted as things progress! -Roy


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @AcidGambit,
> 
> Nice start on this tank! First I looked at the pictures, then I looked at your parameters. My first thought was insufficient iron (Fe) due to the chlorosis and interveinal chlorosis on the the new leaves. Looking at your dosing levels and readings I agree that your phosphate (P) level needs to increase; I tend to keep my PO4 level at about 5.0 or slightly less. I also dose my iron at higher levels, typically I dose 0.4 ppm twice a week.
> 
> ...


Thank you for checking in! What iron product would you recommend? My iron currently comes from Green Leaf Aquarium's EDTA+DTPA MICROMIX, which should give me 0.6ppm per week. If possible, I would like an iron product that I can mix in with my micros dosing solution (I mix about 60 days worth at a time) and remain stable? Should I go with EDTA Chelated Iron powder, DTPA Chelated Iron powder, or ferrous gluconate?

Any recommendation on where to start with dosing? I should be getting 0.6ppm per week with my current micro dosing (0.2ppm per dose, three doses per week).


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

AcidGambit said:


> Thank you for checking in! What iron product would you recommend? My iron currently comes from Green Leaf Aquarium's EDTA+DTPA MICROMIX, which should give me 0.6ppm per week. If possible, I would like an iron product that I can mix in with my micros dosing solution (I mix about 60 days worth at a time) and remain stable? Should I go with EDTA Chelated Iron powder, DTPA Chelated Iron powder, or ferrous gluconate?
> 
> 
> > Hi @AcidGambit,
> ...


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Okay, I just added DTPA and Ferrous Gluconate to my micro solution. Each micro dose (3x per week) should have another 0.2ppm of Fe. I guess I'll just check back in in a few weeks. I'm guessing that you think I should get the Fe situation figured out before messing with the phosphate, correct?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

So, the bad news is that I went away for a week and came back to green city! I think that it is a mix of GSA and green dust algae.


















The good news is that my DHG carpet has taken off and it's getting hard to tell the demarcation between the plugs that I originally planted. Could this be a sign that the added Fe helped? I've read that DHG loves Fe.










On the deficiencies. What does everyone think of the new growth on the anubias nana? The leaves are big and light green, but they do not appear to have as much chlorosis and interveinal chlorosis.


















New growth on crypts is pink, could this be caused by the high light?








@Seattle_Aquarist, the plan was to wait longer on the Fe dosing increase, but I'm concerned about the new algae taking over the tank and killing everything. Should I bump up the phosphate in the mean time or stay the course? My theory is that addressing the Fe issue increased the growth rate in the tank, further exacerbating the phosphate issue. What does everyone think?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit

Did you leave the lights on 24/7 while you were gone? Even if you were on a 'normal' photoperiod seems likely the nutrients dropped to very low levels resulting in most of the issues you see. If it were me I would trim heavily algae infested leaves, clean the glass as best I could, do a 50% water change, siphon off the top layer of sand and replenish, and go back to the dosing you were doing before you left. Also, if you can, check your hardness and calcium ppm and compute you magnesium level. Were you dosing any magnesium (Mg) in the past?

Just an FYI for future reference, I usually cut my photoperiod down to 50% - 75% of normal when on vacation.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @AcidGambit
> 
> Did you leave the lights on 24/7 while you were gone? Even if you were on a 'normal' photoperiod seems likely the nutrients dropped to very low levels resulting in most of the issues you see. If it were me I would trim heavily algae infested leaves, clean the glass as best I could, do a 50% water change, siphon off the top layer of sand and replenish, and go back to the dosing you were doing before you left. Also, if you can, check your hardness and calcium ppm and compute you magnesium level. Were you dosing any magnesium (Mg) in the past?
> 
> Just an FYI for future reference, I usually cut my photoperiod down to 50% - 75% of normal when on vacation.


No, everything ran according to schedule. I use automation for my lights, so they remained at 6.5 hours. In addition, my dosing is done automatically with dosing pumps and it looks like they ran according to schedule. The only other thing that I can think of is that I had cut a piece of white plastic to cover the front of the tank, to prevent sunlight from coming in during the day (the tank is near a window). I haven't been very good about leaving it up when I leave the house, but it was up the entire time I was away on vacation. Perhaps it was reflecting light back into the tank (which would have otherwise left through the glass), which in essence resulted in a higher photoperiod/more intensity. Come to think of it, the first appearance of GSA might have coincided with first using the screen.

Maybe I'll clean everything as you suggested and leave the screen off for a week and see where I end up.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit

"White" material is an excellent reflector, I agree it likely accounts for the algae issues experienced. The extra (reflected) light likely also accounts for the deficiency issues (GSA, etc) since extra light requires more nutrients.

-Roy


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Stage 1 of the cleanup is complete.










I've come to realize that I need a better algae scraper to get everything off the glass. I'll also need to take another pass at pruning off all of the GSA-covered leaves. The best part of this cleanup was finally biting the bullet and cleaning my lily pipes and tubing. It was less painful than I thought it would be.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit,

Nice clean-up!

I use a "Magic High Compressed Double Density Thick Melamine Sponge Eraser Extra Durable" 'Magic Eraser' as my preferred go-to algae cleaner for glass; even stubborn GSA and BBA. More durable than 'Mr Eraser' and only about $0.70 each ($6.99 for 10) on Evilbay.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @AcidGambit,
> 
> Nice clean-up!
> 
> I use a "Magic High Compressed Double Density Thick Melamine Sponge Eraser Extra Durable" 'Magic Eraser' as my preferred go-to algae cleaner for glass; even stubborn GSA and BBA. More durable than 'Mr Eraser' and only about $0.70 each ($6.99 for 10) on Evilbay.


I wish that I had learned about these earlier. They removed the algae without any effort.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

5-day blackout treatment pretty much knocked out the rest of the algae. I have some GSA-covered leaves to trim and I am going to do a big water change and clean my filter, but I think I'm back on track.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm getting ready to stock more fish in the tank! If you're interested, please check in here:

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/1300057-stocking-21-long-uns-90l.html


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Today I created new solutions for my dosing pumps. I stuck mostly to my first recipe, except that I added Fe per my earlier discussions in the thread, and I bumped up the KH2PO4, which brings me to 1.8ppm PO4 per dose.

I also noticed something interesting - my micro solution dosing pump may be losing prime, which would result in it dosing less than planned. So I am going to run some tests on it over the next few week to see if it is dosing true. If it is losing prime, the dosing pump may be partially responsible for my Fe deficiency.


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## Patric (Jun 14, 2019)

Thank you for posting. Great read. I’m waiting for my 90L to arrive. Beautiful tank. Did you consider Fluval V3 / 36”? That’s the light I’m going with. Fully planted but low-tech and tap water. Newbie.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I didn't consider that light, mostly because I like the look of the Twinstar lights and didn't do much research. Taking a look at it now, those Fluval v3 lights are pretty nice, so I would definitely consider them for a future build.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I added a few floating planters with S. Repens and Hygrophila pinnatifida (I got the idea here Urban Aquaria: Aquarium Floating Island Planter).










I plan to add more if they work out. This picture also illustrates my current issues. The algae on my glass has a very distinct cut off half way down the glass. I think that this is because the tank faces a large window and the bushes in front of the window were recently trimmed down (it wasn't as much of an issue in the summer). The plan was to get Ikea's new smart shades, but those keep getting pushed off...

As you can also see, I have lovely algae on my sand. Generally, the tank needs a good cleaning tonight and some pruning. I have a ton of plant mass on the left side of the tank, which I think has also messed up some of the flow.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Big trimming tonight. I had no idea how massive my blyxa was -- it was crowding out the AR mini and H'ra on the left side of my tank. It was likely the cause of many of their issues. I removed about a softball size portion worth of sideshoots from the blyxa.


























I'll probably do midweek water changes and more cleaning over the next few weeks to get everything back in shape.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

It's fish time! I started stocking in earnest today. My first choice was triple red apistogramma caucatoides, but my LFS didn't have any in stock. I decided to go with double red apistogramma agassizii instead.

Male:









Female:









The funny part is that they immediately discovered the two caves I built into the hardscape (they first flocked to different caves):

















I also picked up some gold circle danios.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

It's been nearly a month, and during that time life happened and I neglected the tank for two weeks. Doing so was particularly frustrating because I had made some strides to clean the tank and get everything back on track. Well, here is where I am right now after step one of cleaning everything up:










As annoying as it was, letting the tank get nasty had some benefits. I've come to the realization that I do not want to deal with the upkeep of stems like H'ra. With the high light, they were growing sideways and turning into a rats nest. That big mass of plants really screwed up the flow in my tank, which I think is a big part of the hair algae problems I've had. On the flip side, my blyxa has grown really well and I like the look of it. The DHG is also dense and healthy looking (after I knocked the algae out of it). So I think that I am going to transition the tank to being filled with more blyxa to the left of the big rock formation, and maybe some Echinodorus palaefolius to give some height and frame the blyxa. Let me know what you think!

I also noticed this nasty stuff growing in my EI dosing containers:










Does anyone know what it is? The big change with this batch was adding some white vinegar to each mixture. Could that be the source (seems likely given that both containers exhibit the same issue)?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

My tank is less gross now (the algae on the glass is from a week of growth--weekly water change and maintenance will happen later tonight)! I'm down to a four-hour photoperiod, I did a big change of the filter, and came to the realization that I need to consistently clean the pre-filter every week (one of the benefits of the Oase Biomaster). The pre-filter sponges were slick with algae residue! I also trimmed the DHG lawn, which was really cool because it made me realize how dense it is now. The tank also seems to be slowly getting into better shape with respect to algae. I have some hair algae in spots, but I think that it is remnants from the infestation rather than new growth. Let me know what you think of the new additions, including the now-sprouting red tiger lotus.










I have no idea what this plant is because I've struggled a lot with this tank, changing the plants that I had. But I think it is a crypt that I thought disappeared months ago.


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## ScrubbyDick (Mar 31, 2016)

Have you thought about getting a dimmer for your Twinstar? The light is blasting your short tank with super high light.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

ScrubbyDick said:


> Have you thought about getting a dimmer for your Twinstar? The light is blasting your short tank with super high light.


Yes, I am running a dimmer on it. I think that I am running it at 5/8 strength (I can't remember now whether the dimmer has 7 or 8 positions) for 5 hours per day. I was torn on running it lower because it took my DHG a long time to take off, which I attributed in-part to having the light too low in the beginning. But maybe I should consider dropping it another notch now that my carpet has really taken off.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit

I agree with @ScrubbyDick, it looks like you are running way too much light. Just an FYI, most emersed grown Eleocharis sp (hairgrass) do take a few weeks to start sending out runners. Also, I would add a Crossocheilus oblongus (Siamese (not Chinese) Algae Eater/SAE) to your tank and an Otocinclus or two as well to start cleaning up the algae.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Thank you for all of the recommendations. I have two ottos right now, but maybe I'll add a few more. And I will add an SAE to the list. I've also bumped the light down two notches on the dimmer, so we'll see where that takes me.

I've also added five more amanos, though they don't seem to be doing much yet :icon_roll










The red tiger lotus bulbs are really starting to take off:










I also added 18 Gertrude's Spotted Blue Eye Rainbowfish (Pseudomugil Gertrudae) after waiting a long time for them to come in:










There's a lot of activity going on in the tank now that it is close to fully stocked:


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Algae is definitely going away on the rocks with the lowered light intensity and some spot treatments of Excel on the biggest BBA clumps.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Not too much to update this week, other than the tank continues to clean up. The Red Tiger Lotus bulbs really added some good texture and hiding places. I'm glad that I picked them up, and I may use a bulb when I re-scape one of my pico tanks:


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Just catching up on your journal so apologies if I ask things you've already answered. Guessing your dragon stone didn't prove to raise KH too much? That stuff really seems to vary. 

Those blue eyes look great! I had a group of them years back, they didn't prove to be a long lived species but sure spawned a lot. Wishing now I'd burned the calories to raise fry and still had some. Are you getting any orange Neo shrimp fry with all those fish in there?


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Subscribed to the thread. Seems you had your fair share of algae explosion but hopefully that's all in the rear-view mirror now. Is that a leopard danio in the last pic?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Just catching up on your journal so apologies if I ask things you've already answered. Guessing your dragon stone didn't prove to raise KH too much? That stuff really seems to vary.
> 
> Those blue eyes look great! I had a group of them years back, they didn't prove to be a long lived species but sure spawned a lot. Wishing now I'd burned the calories to raise fry and still had some. Are you getting any orange Neo shrimp fry with all those fish in there?


It seems that I had a lot of different issues in the beginning, so the shrimp didn't make it. The dragon stone doesn't seem to have any effect on the kH. I think it's a clay, so it doesn't leach anything out.

Bump:


Hujeta said:


> Subscribed to the thread. Seems you had your fair share of algae explosion but hopefully that's all in the rear-view mirror now. Is that a leopard danio in the last pic?


I have a pretty good handle on the algae, but I haven't always been consistent with my maintenance. For example, I have a bunch of algae now because I've let certain things lapse, waiting to get some new hardware for my intakes/outtakes. And I've also been really busy with a new job. But I have a plan in place, so things should be good going forward.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

As I alluded to earlier, I've been neglecting the tank. I've also been more focused on upgrading my two nano tanks from UNS 20C to 25C. The current state of this tank is... gross!










Luckily, the inhabitants don't tend to mind. To the contrary, the Gertrude's Spotted Blue Eye Rainbowfish (Pseudomugil Gertrudae) are at "it" all day long. Later tonight I'm going to do a lot of maintenance, and modify the hardscape with an eye on increasing the ability to keep this tank clean. Stay posted!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

So last night I cleaned my filter, replaced the tubing, and setup the new Neo Aquario extended special (enough names, already?) diffusor. I was using filter floss in the filter as the last stage, but I've decided to remove it for now so that I get more flow and I think that I will probably be collecting a lot of junk in the filter as the algae dies out, so I do not want it to clog prematurely. I've also been treating the BBA with Excel and H2O2. My plan is to continue to do so on a daily basis and to go with two water changes per week for the next few weeks. The rocks in the left are just there temporarily while I figure out how I want to place them. The idea is to have S Repens near the glass, and to use the rocks to separate them from some stems that I have on order.










The glass was so nasty that it looked like I had gotten everything off last night, but I'll need to take another pass tonight. The new diffusor is really great. It includes a black string that allows you to bend the diffusor without damaging it by applying heat. So I was able to make a perfect fit for my tank.


















For those interested, this is my nano tank that was keeping me occupied. I have a few dwarf crayfish on the way for it!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Step two--I rearranged the rocks and added some stems. The S. Repens tissue culture didn't look too hot, but I'm hoping that it pulls through.


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## plantedman (Feb 5, 2012)

Try adding 1 dozen of Bristlenose plecos... may be Super red colors. You can find in aquabid, they will clean it for you..


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Another week and the tank is looking better, with mixed results. BBA continues to die off on rocks, but I've seen a bit more of it in the dwarf hairgrass. I'm really liking the stem growth and how it obscures my skimmer. It will be a shame to cut and replant them. I'm also excited that S. Repens seems to be responding well, especially after looking terrible in the culture cup. I think that I am at the point with at least one is tall enough to trim and replant.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I think I'm going to throw in the towel. Algae has come back and the stems that were growing fine have started curling up on themselves. Simply put, I've been trying for a high-tech tank for close to two years and for whatever reason, it hasn't clicked with me, even despite a lot of the great input from the board. I get a lot of joy out of my two low-tech pico tanks, but this tank and the tank before it were constant sources of frustration. This is especially true since I started working from home 2.5 months ago, where I constantly see the tank.

I think I am going to strip the tank, drill an overflow and install a sump, and make it into an African cichlid tank. Thank you everyone.


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## zmartin (May 1, 2018)

I’m sorry to hear that - it’s a unique looking tank. But can certainly understand the frustration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cpc91 (May 1, 2019)

Coincidentally I actually have this same setup but am using aquasoil instead of tropica. This was a quarantine project so its not done yet, but if you keep this running and mine works out I can let you know what I did. I've kept quite a few planted tanks before so I don't anticipate there being any major issues. Right now I'm just waiting for the remaining supplies to come.

Edit: I also wouldn't make this an african cichlid tank. You are going to have a lot of territory issues.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

cpc91 said:


> Coincidentally I actually have this same setup but am using aquasoil instead of tropica. This was a quarantine project so its not done yet, but if you keep this running and mine works out I can let you know what I did. I've kept quite a few planted tanks before so I don't anticipate there being any major issues. Right now I'm just waiting for the remaining supplies to come.
> 
> Edit: I also wouldn't make this an african cichlid tank. You are going to have a lot of territory issues.


I'm going to go with tiny shell dwellers, so it shouldn't be an issue. I'm not trying to put any of the larger cichlids in.


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