# ADA Ammonia Spike Time Frame



## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

G'day All. How long did it take for your amazonia to stop leaching ammonia? How often did you do water changes?

I'm on my 3rd or 4th week, and it still seems like it's leaching ammonia. 

Thanks!


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

It probably is. From what I can gather, this process can vary greatly from bag to bag; some leech more (and longer) than others. 2-3x weekly 70% water changes are recommended, but increased frequency/amount is not out of the question and really the only way to combat the problem.


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

Looks like I'm going to have to up the amount of water changes...
I was looking forward to getting some shrimp soon too. Ah well.


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

Mine took almost exactly a month for ammonia and nitrite readings to disappear.
It happened very suddenly as well.


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## dienson (Apr 15, 2008)

Mine still leech ammonia 3 weeks,,still hight No2 ,now
don't know when stop
good day all


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Some never really did, one has been on the 5-6th week now.
I added high current for O2 mixing and that seems to help likely via bacteria and all the waste they are processing.
Some 2 weeks and I was fine.

Hard to say.

You can do small jar test and add a little Excel to kill the bacteria without oxidizing the AS. Then another with some mulm water and then measure the NH4 over time.

By knowing the volume of sample jar water and the volume of the ADA AS, you can extrapolate a rate (NH4 ppm/unit time) and you may as well measure pH/KH/GH as well. Make sure to add O2 to the bottles and a little current of some sort to each.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> You can do small jar test and add a little Excel to kill the bacteria without oxidizing the AS. Then another with some mulm water and then measure the NH4 over time.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


I don't quite understand this- what bacteria does Excel kill? I understand what adding mulm is supposed to accomplish, but I'm missing something about Excel...?


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

I think after 4 or 5 weeks, the amazonia has begun to stop leeching, or at least not as much. I did a few water changes over the weekend and it seems to be leaking less. After the first water change, I waited a day before testing the ammonia, and it was .25 give or take. I did another water change, and the ammonia is at 0. I'm waiting for a few days and testing it again to see how much more has leaked. I thinking a few more water changes should do the trick.


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

And a few weeks later, the ADA is still leeching ammonia...slowly getting impatient. I want to start stocking the tank.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

There's variation, I'm not sure there's really any solution really.
Water changes, wait, lots of plants etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

yep, patience is the key. mine have gone as long as 5 weeks, and i did daily 80% water changes. cram it full of as many nutrient sponges as you can (foxtail, elodea, fast growing stems) and keep doing your water changes. you mentioned shrimp, and they are the one thing you dont want to take any chances with, they cannot take as much ammonia or nitrates as say fish or snails.


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I'm doing water changes almost every day if not then every other day. The fast growing stem plants I have in there are rotala green, some sort of hygro and wisteria (sp?). The rotala is growing nicely. 
I'm about to do another water change tonight. I checked the ammonia levels a few hours after last night's water change, and it was .25 or .5 hard to tell the difference, but it has been at that level for weeks.

I suppose I'll keep on waiting. I don't want to spend money on shrimp and have them die off.


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## mistern2005 (Nov 20, 2006)

My expereince on two tanks has been to add some plants and dose Green Bacter. This drove the ammonia and nitrite two zero in less than two weeks. The nitrates took about a week longer to get in the 5-10ppm range (which is what I needed for my CRS).


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Well, not on my batches, Bacter smacter............that would not have done a dang thing...........

I had a fully mature XP4 fully loaded and added fresh purigen and Zeolite as well to a 38 Gal tank, and I did a dry start method that should have cycled the sediment some prior for for 3 weeks. I added old tank water from mature aquariums.

I did 3x a week 80-90% water changes.
Nothing would stop it after 5 weeks later.............
No amount of plants, bacteria could stop this........

Only time and dilutions..........

Eventually the AS stopped leaching.........some folks have had it turn to mud muck very fast.......

Now I've had some where it did not matter a bit, I added to fully stocked tanks without issues............

So that tells me that it's pretty variable....just like soils can be......
Consistency of product is not always easy, however, the inert brands, like EC even have their issues, Flourite can be extra dusty etc.

Still, a replicate of 1 tank hardly tells you much, you can say the tank started off nice etc, but you cannot make generalizations or predictions.

I've done 16 tanks with it now. Maybe 30 pots at the lab.
I'm leary about doing the nutrient analysis on it as the batch to batch differences are so wide and I may not get a good random sample.

I really do not think we can say how long it takes for the NH4 to stop leaching out or not.........obviously there is some limit and it might be about 6 weeks or so........at least based on the tanks I've done and seen.

Still, that's a lot of work and PITA.
The 38 gal is fine now 6 weeks later.

So it did finally stop.
But no amount of prep stopped it.........
A couple of other local members had a similar issue.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info Tom. Makes me feel better that it will stop one day.  I'm also doing 90% water changes. I get all the water out until the water is the same level as the substrate. 
But it looks like my hopes of stocking the tank with shrimp will be put on hold for awhile.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Just keep after it, I know it's a PITA, but there's not much else you can do and even if you did do something else, at this point by the time you did do it, the tank might have corrected itself anyway, leading you to a false conclusion.......or even less certainty.

Most of the cloudy and other issues with ADA As have been resolved doing more water changes etc and more frequent ones. Eventually the stuff has to stop leaching.

Setting up a good semi automated water changer is a very wise idea.
I do this for all tanks.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

Yes a very big PITA, what can you do? I just did another WC 2 days in a row. Let's see how this turns out. I'm hoping really hard that it will stop leeching by next Friday because there's a fish auction going on and I want to get the shrimps. If not I'll have to wait another month. 

In the meantime I bought a new 48 watt t5 10k light system for the plants. Hopefully that'll help with the HC carpet.


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

Strange things are afoot. I've been measuring the ammonia levels for awhile now, and doing practically daily water changes as well. Last night did about 3 water changes, just to see if the ammonia levels will lower. But it seemed like no matter how many times i change the water, the levels stayed at .25? So i checked water from the faucet, same ammonia level, .25. Could my test tubes be contaminated?


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

How old is your test kit? Take a sample (tank & tap) to your LFS and ask them to test it to see if they get the same results.


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

It's pretty new. 2 months old?


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Talk about weird-I added Aquasoil Amazonia on Saturday along with two (new) large pieces of wood. Here's a link to my post about the wood. Tested the water on Sunday. Ammonia off the chart, Nitrites high, pH to low to test. I have been doing approx 90% WC everyday and poking the soil with my long tweezers, always get bubbles btw. I tested my params just now and my Ammonia is around .25-.5, Nitrites are zero and the pH is around 6. I left my filter "dirty" during this substrate change-over to keep my bacteria and I also put down a small layer of mulm on the bottom before adding the aquasoil. I'm going to take a sample to my LFS tonight and have them verify my findings.

I'm not getting my hopes up yet, but this cycling process may be shorter than I originally anticipated. I'm going to skip the WC tonight and test the water tomorrow when I get home and see where I stand.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It's not unusual for tap water to contain ammonia.

If that's the case then you'll need to make sure you have plenty of ammonia-hungry plants in your tank- water sprite, floating plants, and hygros I believe should fit the bill?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Re: ammonia test results

If you are using Prime, Amquel, etc. as your dechlor, you will get false positive test results when using a Nessler type freshwater ammonia test kit.

Salicylate type freshwater/saltwater ammonia test kits usually do not give false positive test results when using Prime, Amquel, etc. from what I've read.

Seachem's ammonia test kits are claimed to not give false positive test results.


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm using Prime and the API test kit. I even tried using tap water that didnt have any prime in it, still the same. All 3 tubes the exact same color. LOL

I do have alot of fast growing stem plants in the tank that are growing nicely. Even the Hairgrass is growing everywhere now. Do you think I can start stocking the tank yet?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I use Phenate and Sali.
A newer NH4 probe can measure pretty low these days as well.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm on my 4th week and still there's about .5ppm of ammonia/ammonium consistently. Very frustrating.


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

It took me practically 2 months with huge water changes every other day and alot of stemmed plants. Good Luck! It is a huge pain, but at least the plants are doing nicely.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

After 5-6 weeks of very aggressive methods, the stuff finally gave in.
I did everything..........

Good news is: there is light at the end of the tunnel and the tanks do well thereafter...........

My 180 Gal that I did a 2 month DSM on, has righted inside 2-3 weeks,..........
Mostly tannin leaching. A couple of days of slight diatoms, then a little Rhizo.
Adding shrimps now.

The nasty 38 that was trashed now has a nice healthy group of red coral ark pencils and shrimp.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I got through it in about 12 days in my 60-P...

Go figure...


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## gumby (Apr 3, 2008)

12 Days? 

Details please!?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

gumby said:


> 12 Days?
> 
> Details please!?


I think I read somewhere that there are variances in organic material content between bags, making some bags more "potent" than others. I guess I got a few bags that were mellow 

I used Bacter 100 under the Aquasoil and dosed (daily) the recommended amout of Green Bacter. Think what you will, but I believe they both helped things along:thumbsup: ...in conjunction with all the daily 50% water changes:thumbsdow


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2008)

dhavoc said:


> yep, patience is the key. mine have gone as long as 5 weeks, and i did daily 80% water changes. cram it full of as many nutrient sponges as you can (foxtail, elodea, fast growing stems) and keep doing your water changes. you mentioned shrimp, and they are the one thing you dont want to take any chances with, they cannot take as much ammonia or nitrates as say fish or snails.


The water changes every day actually slow the cycle down. I suggest every 2-3 days and using Green Bactar..


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