# Nano Love and Nano Woes : Mini Journal



## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Well i recentrly redid my nano iwagumi type and ventured into the world of high light fun. I must say that this has been a learning process and this is why I love nanos. You have to be on your toes and learn fast. Things can change in a blink of an eye, for the good and the bad. But the overall investment, financially, fora, and fauna wise, is realatively low. So if you screw up, "I'll fix that next time around" is right around the corner. 

Anyways pics, observations, and descriptions:

Edit - all the equipment is in the shot. I believe that part of the nano experience is the simplicity of the tank. I just wish I was a better photographer, because it don't think the pics do it justice.

-2 Cherrys (There has been a whole debate about color, I took two out of my breader tank, with light substrate, and they immediatly darked on the ADA malaysia. So, I would venture to say that substrate color plays a big role in cherry color.)

-2 Microrasboras










-Dwarf Hairgrass

-HC










-20 Watt compact spiral 6500k 10 hour photoperiod

-DIY autodosing filter

-Sat and Wed 1/3 water changes










Little HC pearling eye candy


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Ok, now for the ugly. I have been fighting off a little GSA with fleet. I was starting to get that bucking bronco under control when I noticed 2 things to my horror!

1) My HC is starting to white out a bit. Mainly on new growth. Lack of iron?

2) BBA! I spoted signs of this bugger on a region of the HC and a little on the hairgrass. I'm going to try to trim out what I can, but with the HC this is going to be tough. I added 2 more shrimp to slow the growth.

I don't want to do Co2, due to the size of the tank, to gain control of the BBA. So, excel OD appears to be my only choice. Will this kill the shrimp?
I also figured I had to bump up the iron dosing due to the white growth on the HC. Was I correct in this guess? 

What I think happened to start this onset was that I had a HUGE HC growth spurt and my excel, Fe dosing wasn't up to the levels it needed. My growth has now slowed and algae was "allowed" to appear. Now I speculate that I have to get excel and Fe levels up to outcompete this stuff.

Am I right?

Ps. 
Ferts, I was dosing stump remover and fleet. But I stopped due to a shrimp death and HIGH nitrates. I'm just going to let the ADA aqua soil do its job. Only dosing excel, Fe and K right now. I'm trying to marginally duplicate ADA Step 1.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

P.p.s I forgot to mention, I have a planeria infestation. I doesn't bother me that much, but I was wondering if the microrasboras eat planeria? I see them picking at the glass and I think I see them eating things out of the water, but it's so hard to tell with a small fish eating a small "worm"


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

First let me say, I love the look of your nano. The HC and hairgrass are great, and your choice of fauna is top notch.

I do think Potassium is the lacking nutrient here, and I believe that iof you want to overdose the excel, you will have to move the shrimp to another tank for a while IMO. I think anything without scales will react negatively to the excel overdose.

Let us know how it goes!


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

One nerite in that tank would clear up your GSA.....

Great layout btw!


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Well I came home last night and the BBA in the HC was gone, I think the 4 cherries I overloaded it with took care of it. There is still some in the hairgrass, and I am going to see what the cherries can do to that before I commmit to a full excell od. 



fresh_newby said:


> First let me say, I love the look of your nano. The HC and hairgrass are great, and your choice of fauna is top notch.


Thank you for the compliments! That means alot. 



fresh_newby said:


> I do think Potassium is the lacking nutrient here,


As for the Potassium, is that due to the GSA? I don't have a potassium test kit, so I don't know what my levels are. Since I'm not Od'ing the excel, I'll give the potassium a bump and see what happens. I was poking around on your pic site, awsome tanks btw. My substrate, ADA, has the look of the pic you labeled BGA. Any suggestions on dosing to kill it?



fresh_newby said:


> and I believe that iof you want to overdose the excel, you will have to move the shrimp to another tank for a while IMO. I think anything without scales will react negatively to the excel overdose.


Thanks that clicked in my head as I read it. Hopefully the Od won't be needed, but if it is, then into the breeder tank with all the fauna.



hooha said:


> One nerite in that tank would clear up your GSA.....
> 
> Great layout btw!


Thanks again for the comp, I have heard those things are algae bulldozers, there pretty big aren't they? I'm worried that would throw off the "scaling".


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

females get pretty big, but the males can stay 1cm in diameter


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## sNApple (Nov 6, 2005)

nice tank man, i have the same lay out but 90x bigger heh


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## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

NICE ! roud: I have to set up a nano tank for my betta ! oh and you could add co2 to help grow the plants faster to get rid of the algae i think.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

And here comes the storm. I was mistaken with the BBA, snapple clued me to it being clado. I did sit down and run some test and figured a lot out. 
Here's what I got.

Ph = 7.2
Gh = 13
Kh = Test went south, figure that out later
No3 = 0 ppm
No2 = .05 ppm
Ammonia = 0

So there you have it. I burned up all my No3. Slowly bumped it up to 5 ppm using diluted stump remover 2 tbs mixed with 250 ml water stock solution with each mL adding 22.6 ppm, added approx 1/4 ml.

I must say that the HC has colored up nicely with the nitrates up, plus I'm bumping up my excel from .15ml to .25ml. Everything seams to be looking better. 

Snapple - glad to see someone on the Iwagumi journey with me, great tank by the way. I was looking through the journal and I got your clado! Those pictures of the HC looked oh so familar. You got it in your hairgrass to? Keep it updated with your progress.

fish_lover0591 Thanks man for the compliment. I had DIY co2 on it. It's just to much with a nano that small. I wish I had the $ to get a paintball system. But part of me loves the minimalistic look.

hooha - gotta look into male nerites, any suggestions on sources?


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## Matthew Mahling (Sep 4, 2005)

I really like what you got growing there very nice Hc and hairgrass.
The only thing I would say is missing is more angle on the stones. I have some small ohko stones that would look perfect in that tank.


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## sNApple (Nov 6, 2005)

if your clado problem gets worse, try some amanos, my cherry's just ignored.


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

With you being in Southern California, you probably have some LFS there that sells Nerites for freshwater somewhere in the area. A less economical place to look Wilma Duncan online, but you'd probably want to get a bunch to make shipping worth it.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Well, put 2 amanos in last night. Today after work, 2 amano's MIA. Drastic times call for drastic action. Trimmed, pulled and plucked as much affected greens out and the algae. Bumped up the excel to 3x reco. Funny thing is the HC is pearling like mad. May be streaming due to the trimming, we'll se in the next couple days.

Nerites eat clado?

P.s. I think this was brought on by low / 0 nitrates and sky high iron

Matthew, I agree about the stones, but this has become less about aquascaping, more about Algae WAR! lol


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## COLEKO (Aug 25, 2006)

Yzmxer99 said:


> Well, put 2 amanos in last night. Today after work, 2 amano's MIA. Drastic times call for drastic action. Trimmed, pulled and plucked as much affected greens out and the algae. Bumped up the excel to 3x reco. Funny thing is the HC is pearling like mad. May be streaming due to the trimming, we'll se in the next couple days.
> 
> Nerites eat clado?
> 
> ...



What part of Orange county you from? I know of a place the has plenty of Amano shrimp if you need more.


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

I don't think nerites eat clado, but they'll do a number on your GSA.


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## Matthew Mahling (Sep 4, 2005)

Good luck with war. If you decide to upgarde the hardscape let me know.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Update 11.19.06*

Well, you win one battle and another begins. I thought I was doing good. Got the NPK up and in balance (I think) The the GSA along with Clado has been slowly disappearing with the excel. 1ml on water change and .25 daily. No adverse effects on shrimp or rasboras yet. 

A direct shot to the HC did kick it in the butt though. Here's a pic of the test spot. You can see how much lighter it is than the rest of the HC. I has slowly been getting greener with each day. But I decided to not press my luck and have only been od'ing the water, instead of direct shots. If you look closely you can also see the planeria infestation I got going. I am hoping the rasboras will munch on those bad boys. 


















The GSA softened up on the rocks and I could finally get it off. I combed out the hairgrass and plucked as many affected stems to clear everything out. I think the cherries are finally able to make some progress now.









However, now I think I got GDA! lol This is nuts. I just keep telling myself it's a learning process.









I plan on not touching it for the 21 days, that is going to be rough, ala Tom Barr's sage advice though multiple postings on this forum.

I know I triggered the clado, BGA and GSA by elevating micro ferts and having low N. How did I mange the GDA? N is about 20ppm, P and K dosed to appropriate lvls by guess on EI. The only other thing I have been dosing is 1 drop iron, once a week.

Anyways life trucks on, I keep learning so that one day all this knowledge can be applied to a big tank.


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## Snazzy (Sep 24, 2006)

Yzmxer99 said:


> -DIY autodosing filter


could you pm or post a little more info on that?


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## Snazzy (Sep 24, 2006)

Yzmxer99 said:


> -DIY autodosing filter


could you pm or post a little more info on that?

~good luck with the algae


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

is this a red sea aqua vase xl?
i have one and i must say, compared to yours, mine looks like someething the cat dragged in.(anyone got some hc for dufus?)
are these pheonix rasboras? how do you get them to stay in the tank when working?'s?'s?'s?'s?'s


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Filter*

Thanks guys for the intrest. Yes it is the red sea nano. Here is some stuff on the "filter". 

I got some really thin (so thin it fits inside airline) acrylic tube from a plastic supply store in anaheim, ca. I used a heat gun to bend it and added a bigger acrylic piece to the end as a prefilter. The output has been redone to resemble ADA bends now. I cut down the intake to increase flow too. Once a week I lift the inflow tube to get air in the system. The bubbles blow the algae out of the tubes and restore the flow.










I got the idea from the pump from some other postings on this forum. It's a tom's aqualifter. I put a prefilter before the pump to help remove particulates. It is a large model airplane gas tank with some filter floss in it. I also put this on to try to cheat the volume up a little more. It works great because the tank is designed to be sealed at all angles and elevated g forces.










Tom Aquatics Aqua Lifter—Dosing Pump - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store
It's cheap and quiet. Unlike that HOB that came with it. 

*Dufus* - they are Boraras maculatus (Dwarf Rasbora). The only thing that has jumped was the amanos. When I'm working on the tank, it gets a 50% water change. So there is a pretty good wall for them. Other than that the tank stays toped off and the fauna (minus Amanos) stays inside. My first try at this tank was really rough. It's size and the round corners kinda make it a pain. But that's the cool thing about nanos, you can scrap them and start over for a couple bucks.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Just to be a contrarian: Your real problem is not ferts, but light. You have too much for too long. If you are going to do without CO2, and I agree with your reasoning on that, you can't go to high intensity lighting. All of those types of algae you have run into are due to the high light and long duration of the light. So, I suggest pulling back that lamp at least 6 inches, and limiting the light to no more than 8 hours a day. The planaria infestation suggests to me that you are overfeeding the fish and shrimp. But, I admit that is just a guess.

I will starting my own nano tank probably next week, so your woes are of great interest to me, since they almost parallel my woes with my 45 gallon tank. (Minus the planaria.)


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

yea, i have emtied mine already and started over after a wild hair algea outbreak. i am looking for dwarf hg, and hc for it, but it has a small amazon sword, a crypt min runner thing, and some rotala.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Hoppy*, glad to have a guru on board. I agree with you on the light and any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I know I'm making mistakes with the purpose of this nano now being to learn and give the nano group something to learn from. I throttled back the photoperiod to 7 hours. I don't want to back off the light distance wise, it's kinda blinding that way. I might go see if I can find a lower watt at walmart today, probly aim for 13 watts. That seems ideal to me.

As for the planeria, there just kinda there. Luckly they disappear when the lights click on. I don't feed the rasboras but a small (< 1/10?) piece of algae wafer once a week and remove the extra after 3 hours. So, I don't think overfeeding is the issue. 

Good luck with the nano (what size are you planning?), and your 45g has been the source of a lot of information.


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

I've grown glosso in a 2.5gallon with a 13watt spiral on it, I think that's the way to go for your nano.


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## cam barr (Nov 18, 2006)

where in oc did you get your HC


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Update 11.27.06*

Well, I cut down on the photo period. Now at 7 hours with the 20w CF. I still want to get a 13w, just haven't had the time or patience to battle through crowds at WalMart. 

Excel : I have been dosing 1.3ml at water changes and .25ml daily

This stuff seams to be doing wonders. It seams to have cleared up the GDA. I was amazed that it happened so quickly in one spot. I know that cherries don't eat it, but a couple were munching on it at a spot. I have never heard of this before and figured it might be a cue that the GDA had ended it's lifecycle. 

Below's a shot of a cherry going to town on the GDA. The clear spot above the head is where they were eating for a bit.

So the next day, I took down the water 50% wiped off the tank sides with paper towels to get off the GDA and had some GSA, clado and BGA left. I scraped and brushed the GSA on the sides with a toothbrush (I was really surprise at how well the toothbrush worked on the GSA). Then I took the toothbrush to the hairgrass to get out the receding clado and BGA. And I was left with a .............

Cleaned up tank! Now, besides some minor GSA coming back (gotta get those phosphates in line) it's time to focus on geting the plants to POP!

I think, knock on wood, that this thing might be starting to show some maturity.:biggrin:

Cherry cleaning dead GSA?









Full Tank after clean up
*Dufus* - you can see the extra chunk I took out for yah where the cherry is.


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

looks good, i am getting some algea that looks like slime in between plants and rocks, it is pearling, or i have some kind of bubble algea.
i have a pic of my small sword either pearling, or infested with some bubble algae.i'll have to find it.


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

found them, sorry if it seems like im hijacking your thread, i just want to know if its pearls, or algea.


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

It's coming along nicely Yzmer, nice job!

dufus, if it's slimy and smells like swamp then it's blue-green algae....lots of info on the site regarding its cause and ways to get rid of it....


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Thanks guys. I don't mind at all you sidetracking a bit. Go for it and feel free to chime in all. If it is bga, excel seems to be chipping away at mine. But since it is the least of my problems, I haven't gone for a direct attack on it yet. Keep us updated on your solution and progress.


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

may be bga, it is green, and doesn't smell horrible(my 10 gallon was infested with it, im familiar with it and bba).
will co2 get rid of it? its coming back in my 10.
i think i'll see how it goes with the cherries, in a week if its not gone, ill try excel. i am cutting the light down a little, trying to block it off from any other source(my crab terrarium light staysa on 24/7 for heat.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

My nano, now up and running is a 2 gallon one, with anubias nana petite, java fern windelov, a little rotala rotundifolia and blyxa to get more plant mass, and no livestock yet. So far so good with mine. I have a 17 watt PC bulb over it about 6" from the water.

I remain convinced that much of our algae woes, and I have had my share and more, are due to too much light for too long. So, both this tank and my 45 gallon tank get only 8 hours of light a day.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Thanks for the advice Hoppy. I've been poking my head in on yours and it looks great so far. I can't wait for it to grow out. I have to go to WalMart for something today and you reminded me to look for a 13w bulb. So thanks.


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## bumblebee (Oct 25, 2003)

Yzmxer99 said:


> -HC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With that distance between the CF compact light and your water, temp could easily go up to 86+ in your small nano tank. You will have all kinds of algea problems, btw your nano are very good looking.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Thanks bumblebee. I didn't even think of the temp difference. I switched it to a 13w bulb now at the 7 hour photoperiod. It is a lot smaller and a lot less bright. Kinda wierd when I look at it now. It is no longer like staring into the sun. So hopefully this will be a two-fold improvement. 1) Solve the excess light period and 2) stabilize the temp a bit.

Thanks all for the help and advice.


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Yzmxer99 said:


> Thanks bumblebee. I didn't even think of the temp difference. I switched it to a 13w bulb now at the 7 hour photoperiod. It is a lot smaller and a lot less bright. Kinda wierd when I look at it now. It is no longer like staring into the sun. So hopefully this will be a two-fold improvement. 1) Solve the excess light period and 2) stabilize the temp a bit.
> 
> Thanks all for the help and advice.


3) your eyes won't shrivel up and fall off


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

dufus said:


> 3) your eyes won't shrivel up and fall off


Seriously! I have been wondering why my eyes were tired after looking at my tank for a bit!


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

So how are things going? any new algea invaders


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Update 12.9.06*

Well, thinks have changed for the better since the last update. Everything has been wrangled in. The GDA is gone, the GSA reseeding and the only thing I have left is some BGA. I have been working on picking it out of the hair grass. I know that I should do a black out, but the BGA seems to be loosing to the plants now. So I'm going to see if I can out-compete it.

Edit - I wanted to add something to for all you nano kids out there. I realized something this week. A "newb" snafu if you will. I find that I under-estimated the hardscape height. The HC tends to be about 1-2 inches deep and is just covering the rocks. I'm planning on upgrading to an ADA mini-s around december (christmas) so I'm not going to change it. I will "go big or go home" with that hard scape though.

*Hoppycalif*- I gotta say that 13 w CF seems to be the ticket and key to the newfound balance. So thanks.

Current dosing at water change 50% (wed and sat)
1.5 ml excel
.5 ml of a .72 ppm liquid premix of H2O and stump remover
.1 ml fleet enema
.15 kent botanica K

Off days dosing
.3 ml excel
.1 ml kent botanica k alternates with 1 drop iron

Enough of the minor details, on to the big picture and pictures. One of my cherries finally "berried". I am way stoked on this because she has been saddled for a while. Plus, this shows the "nano love" part. With only .75g of water, there is no place for her to hide. I can't wait to see the babies. Once again, there will be no place for them to really hide. There going to be right there in my face.

Here are some pictures of the expecting mother. Enjoy.





























Still trying to figure out this camara thing, sorry they aren't better because this was a perfect opportunity for great shots.


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## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

those are some awesome pics good job  good luck with the babies


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

So, has your clado come back? You think it's just a lighting issue like Hoppy said?


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Thanks fish_lover for the comp on the pics, I'm glad you liked them. I go by the take 1 million picture style. I.E. take 1 million and hope that some turn out lol.

Epicfish - I still have some small spots of clado in the HC but it has mostly receeded. I think that lighting and excel had a lot to do with that. How is your battle comming?


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

*So long little nano*

Well this is it for the little nano (until it resurfaces at work lol):fish1:. The cherry had her babies today and its really cool to see how tiny they are. So we were at 26 days of pregnency. What was really neat is that as I think back, she had them last night which was my birthday. So thank you little cherry for the present.

The mini s came over christmas along with all the fixing. I am so excited to get started with that one. Full glass lilies, advanced co2 system and solar light. I have it hardscaped and can't wait to plant it. I went BIG this time with the hardscape, so hold on to your hats with this one. 

I went on vacation for a week and the BGA is back with a vengence in the little nano. I'm going to clean what I can from the HC when I plant the ADA and then during the first week e-myocin it. I would love to start with fresh HC, but that stuff is impossible to get, so I have to do what I can. 

Happy new year all and check back for updates this weekend when I set up the ADA.


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## HybridS130 (Oct 23, 2006)

Awe Im so jealous, that glosso looks freakin sweet.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Hybrid...that isn't glosso... That is HC~


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## HybridS130 (Oct 23, 2006)

Oh, well looks the same to me haha. Is HC easier to grow than glosso?


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

So are you gonna replace this one with the new one?


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Long Time No Update*

Well, it's been a while. The ADA mini-s is up an running and I am really happy with it. It does need a tad more growth and fine tuning til I'm ready to show it off. 

I did want to show you guys my berried "super red" cherry with really yellow eggs. My fiance especially likes her because she is almost overflowing, thus making it hard to walk. It's fairly comical watching her try to keep them all under her. The color in the pics, is pretty true. So enjoy. 




















Ps Any tips on getting the reflections out? And sorry about the over-exposer, but she rarely is at the front of the tank, so it was an improptue photo shoot.


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## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

First I have to say this is absolutely inspiring. I'm trying an mini tank myself from a glass candle holder with the same type of plants. 
The only way I know of to remove the reflections on the glass is to wait until after dark and turn off all the other lights in the house or room before taking the picture. (leave the tank light on) (this really helps point and shoot cameras focus too)
Beautiful tank!


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