# first attempt for Planted Aqurium NEED help



## fibertech (Apr 29, 2009)

That is not much light in your tank. Try to get it up to 1.5 - 2 wpg and you will not need co2 for that amount of light.


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## binders (Mar 22, 2009)

With low lighting like you have you will only be able to grow a limited type of plants (Jave ferns, anubias,crypts, and mosses). Not sure what the full list of plants are but if you do a "low tech" search you should be able to find out a lot of info from people who are doing something just like you are trying to. I'm not a low-tech person so don't know much about it but there is lots of info here about it. 

Good luck and have fun with it!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Your ph is pretty high. The fish are okay with it? It could be lowered with sphagnum moss. Just boil it and put some in a bag in the tank.

Can you possibly put the tank near a sunny window? 

Seems only java fern, moss , crypts, and hornwort would grow with that light. Java fern comes in many varieties. Hornwort is a floating plant but can be anchored into the substrate. Have bought it cheaply at Pet Smart. 

Seems would be cheaper to use mostly hardscape for the tank. Look for rocks and wood at creaks. Boil them and test them with muric acid or white vinigar. If they fizz they have limestone and will raise the ph. Your are basily aiming for a cichlid tank theme. 

At youtube.com have seen examples on how to make rock. Thus have light weight objects to make caves with.

Here is an example


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Hilde said:


> Your ph is pretty high. The fish are okay with it? It could be lowered with sphagnum moss. Just boil it and put some in a bag in the tank.


How often would it be needed to be replaced?


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Hilde said:


> Your ph is pretty high. The fish are okay with it? It could be lowered with sphagnum moss. Just boil it and put some in a bag in the tank.
> 
> Can you possibly put the tank near a sunny window?
> 
> ...


Yeah it is pretty high, and yes my fish seem happy, been for about 3 months and non have died so far. 
where would i get those? its a plants right?


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

fibertech said:


> That is not much light in your tank. Try to get it up to 1.5 - 2 wpg and you will not need co2 for that amount of light.


how do you determine the WPGs?

and yeah its low, im trying to find a different light on craigslist, no luck so far


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## t0p_sh0tta (Jan 24, 2008)

Gallons of water divided by wattage of available light. Either way, if I were in your shoes, I'd do a moss scape, or scour Craigslist for a cheap fixture.


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## fibertech (Apr 29, 2009)

I have a thread in the lighting section that I searched for days trying to find the right low tech light for me. Maybe it will help


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> Yeah it is pretty high, and yes my fish seem happy, been for about 3 months and non have died so far.
> where would i get those? its a plants right?


I assume you are talking about the sphagnum moss. I found it in the garden department of hardware store. It come dry. 

I just put it in before I went on vacation for 2 weeks. When I came back everything seemed to be okay so I took it out.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> how do you determine the WPGs?
> 
> and yeah its low, im trying to find a different light on craigslist, no luck so far




WPG is gallons divided by watts. It is based on the output of T12, thus the smaller the bulb the more light you get. The quality of the bulb seems more important. An example is Trallen44's tank, which is a 55 gallon tank with 1- 32 watt 10,000 K bulb by Zoo Med. Also need to stick to mostly green plants. For you notice that the ludwiga in his tank is a bit skinny. 

8wpg of T5 = 2.34wpg of T12 
8wpg of T5 = 2wpg of T8
T12 lamps typically give out between 60 and 85 lumens per watt. T5HO typically puts out around 100 or just under as T8.

The k is kelvin and stand for the temp. Kelvin near 6500k is daylight. The Kelvin bulb is not always true to the black body locus line on a CIE Chromaticity map. Thus some 5000K bulbs look yellow and others white.

More info on LIGHTS here. 

Example of light output here

Barreport shows plants can grow with any light here

I had found a nice oceanic light fixture with 2 T5 HO bulbs on EBay for $50. Only used the daylight bulb which was 65watts. To lower the electric bill I went to 2 - 20 watt bulbs.  One is a Zoo Med 6500k and the other is Life-glo2  6500k bulb. For housing using under counter light fixture here. 








 
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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

hey guys thx for all the help, just tonight i bought a light set up that takes up to 5 lights, or 4 cant remember and ill let you guys know which light bulbs it has.
Also i just put a diy co2 and the ph has dropped to about 7.4? i think... so idk if thats good or not


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> hey guys thx for all the help, just tonight i bought a light set up that takes up to 5 lights,


What was the cost?


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

only 40 bucks


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> only 40 bucks


Wow!! You got a great deal. Now is that for T5 bulbs or?


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Hilde said:


> Wow!! You got a great deal. Now is that for T5 bulbs or?


That i dont know, how would i find out?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> That i dont know, how would i find out?


You'd have to ask the seller. Got a link to it?


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

what would happen if i just put a t5 bulb in it and it lights on?
does that mean it takes t5?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> what would happen if i just put a t5 bulb in it and it lights on?
> does that mean it takes t5?


I think so. For the T8 is bigger, thus the connections wouldn't fit in.
In fact read that there are retrofits sold to use T5 bulbs in T8 fixtures.

So you already have the fixture? Main thing to match is the wattage. Have use a 20 watt bulb in 18 watt fixture, though.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Hilde said:


> I think so. For the T8 is bigger, thus the connections wouldn't fit in.
> In fact read that there are retrofits sold to use T5 bulbs in T8 fixtures.
> 
> So you already have the fixture? Main thing to match is the wattage. Have use a 20 watt bulb in 18 watt fixture, though.


yeah already have it, picked it up from a guy with a 180g tank who has a huge redbelly pacu btw.. hah
he used it on his 180 tank which he says he got it from someone who used it in a salt water tank, so im guessing it does take t5


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> yeah already have it, picked it up from a guy with a 180g tank who has a huge redbelly pacu btw.. hah
> he used it on his 180 tank which he says he got it from someone who used it in a salt water tank, so im guessing it does take t5


Well sounds like you all you need for a great price. I did a diy with 2 under counter fixtures. Adding and adding, it cost me $50 in the long run.

Now you just have study up on the Co2 light ratio to avoid algae. I would just use 2 of the bulbs unless you are going to grow carpet plants. What bulbs are you going to use? The brand is important for not all 65k will have the same photons, which create the colors.

The T5 bulbs cost more but last longer. Now watch you electric bill go up. Tis a reason I don't use an oceanic light setup I got for $50.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

it has 4 lights in right now, 2 pairs. looks like 2 of them are Power-Glo and the other two are Ecolux aswell


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> it has 4 lights in right now, 2 pairs. looks like 2 of them are Power-Glo and the other two are Ecolux aswell


I think the Ecolux is by GE. Start with just 1 Power-Glo and 1 Ecolux and go with what you like. What is the wattage of bulbs?


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Hilde said:


> I think the Ecolux is by GE. Start with just 1 Power-Glo and 1 Ecolux and go with what you like. What is the wattage of bulbs?


i think theyre 40 watts each


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> i think theyre 40 watts each


Info from related to me by Dr. Foster and Smith here
T5 28W output = T8 32W  
T5HO 54W output aprox 2x T8 and T12 lamps

T5HO lamps are not recommended for applications where their higher brightness can be viewed directly and cause visual discomfort.

So the WPG rule won't help determine how much light you need.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

oh yeah also, the canopy its really rusty, i was planning on sanding it and repainting it, 

which color do you guys recommend? white or chrome so the light leflects?
it was white colored before


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Hilde said:


> I think the Ecolux is by GE. Start with just 1 Power-Glo and 1 Ecolux and go with what you like. What is the wattage of bulbs?


hey here's a picture of how i set up the light, do you think thats too high up, or should i lower it?


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## fibertech (Apr 29, 2009)

Are you happy with it? You can always crank on another bulb if you think it is too dim.
It looks like it lights up your tank pretty well from there.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

fibertech said:


> Are you happy with it?


Hah, well yeah all i wanted was enough light to grow plants. It has the Power Glo, and one of the Fluorescent lights in atm. Both 40 watts. You think that's enough?


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## fibertech (Apr 29, 2009)

80w should grow your tank. I would use them for a while and see how it goes. One good thing about your setup is you can always add more.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I think you need to lower it half way. Good that you are starting with just 2. That will help lower possibility of getting algae.

Don't worry if you get some algae on the wall, especially brown algae. Some algae may occur in the beginning. 

What are you going to do backdrop?

I have used fabric on the back but the color is blackish. Found a pet store where I can get it for 6. I painted one and regretted. For it is very difficult to get off.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Hilde said:


> What are you going to do backdrop?


Yeah, i thought about painting it but then i thought what if i dont like it. The fabric idea is pretty good didnt even think about that, think ill do just that.

Also i'm going to try to lower it half way down like you said, and yeah hah, already getting that brownish algae on a rock that i tied some moss to. 

Oh yeah, also i added some DIY substrate made out of soil and vermiculite.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

hey guys, just thought i should show you how my tank is turning up,

dont have a nice design for it yet, but planst are growing pretty good


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