# zeldar's 10gallon tree stump scape



## ZooTycoonMaster

Do you notice a difference in the Azoo substrate and Aquasoil?


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## FrostyNYC

I absolutely love your stump. I think Id go with an even more dramatic slope, to raise the stump and "roots". UG grows very short emersed but a little taller submersed, and you wouldnt want to totally lose the stump roots under a lawn.

That substrate looks quite a lot like AS. I'll have to look into that.


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## CL

I agree with frosty. A more dramatic slope would add so much to the scape, IMO. That is really a great piece 
I'm looking forward to seeing this progress.


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## EdTheEdge

Nice driftwood!


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## zeldar

thanks guys.

I agree *CL* and *Frosty*, I do need a more dramatic slope. The problem is I used the whole bag of substrate so thats all I have to work with. I should be able to slope it a little more and just have a real shallow foreground. Would that be bad for the plants to have, say, a half inch of substrate up front? I'll do a little rescape and post a pic later today.

*Zoo*, obviously I don't have any water in the tank yet so its tough to tell any difference. But the description/info on the bag of the AZOO they said it won't cloud the water. It really can't possibly be worse than my experience with aquasoil. As for the looks, they are very similar. The Azoo may have slightly smaller pieces, but its very similar.


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## zeldar

alright this is about as much slope as i can add, otherwise the roots wouldn't be touching the substrate. Not much of a difference, but a little better.


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## aquaphish

That is going to be a really nice setup. Love the stump.


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## CL

You could bury a rock or two in the back left corner, which would take up space that the substrate would normally take up, giving you more substrate to work with.
Does that make sense?


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## zeldar

*CL*, thats actually a very good idea. I never thought of that, I'll try it. 

I still need some other plant ideas to go along with UG. I'm not going to be doing diy/press. co2. I am probably going to be dosing excel and ferts though. Lighting will be two 15watt CF.


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## Cichlid Junkie

I'm excited to hear your report on the Azoo substrate once you fill the tank. I am going to be ordering some for my 4 gallon Finnex that is on the way!


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## mgdmirage

Awesome stump!


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## dkbmxr18

I have to agree with everyone else, awesome setup! I can't wait to see what the future holds for this tank


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## Phoenix-cry

This looks like it's gonna be a fun one!


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## NanoDan

Nice stump, I like that.


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## zerojoe0917

nice wood! i really looking forward to you putting the plants in!


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## ALIFER

zeldar said:


> *CL*, thats actually a very good idea. I never thought of that, I'll try it.
> 
> I still need some other plant ideas to go along with UG. I'm not going to be doing diy/press. co2. I am probably going to be dosing excel and ferts though. Lighting will be two 15watt CF.


I'm rather taken with Anubias Nana Petite growing around the base of stumps
... :icon_wink
..
.


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## CL

A large clump of petite would look great either on top of the stump, or around it, IMO 
I love petite if you can't tell


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## Outlawboss

Loads of potential greatness here. I'm excited to see where it goes. I am also in the petite around the base of the stump crowd. That would look freakin awesome.


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## 3elements

I already love your tank and it's not planted or filled yet! That "stump" is amazing and really does look like a stump! Can't wait to see how this goes!


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## zeldar

Trying to locate my plants so I can get this thing planted. I am getting a bunch of anubias petite for around the base of the stump. Then the UG for everywhere else. I haven't decided if I want to do a stem in the back left corner or what. Any suggestions?

Also does anubias petite do well in a dry start tank? Should I just tie the rhizomes to small rocks or wood and push it into the substrate, enough to keep it wet. I know your not supposed to bury the roots but they need to stay wet somehow, right?


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## ALIFER

zeldar said:


> Trying to locate my plants so I can get this thing planted. I am getting a bunch of anubias petite for around the base of the stump. Then the UG for everywhere else. I haven't decided if I want to do a stem in the back left corner or what. Any suggestions?
> 
> Also does anubias petite do well in a dry start tank? Should I just tie the rhizomes to small rocks or wood and push it into the substrate, enough to keep it wet. I know your not supposed to bury the roots but they need to stay wet somehow, right?


I put anubias petite in my dart frog viv for a couple months to hold while setting up a new tank and it did really well. I would guess it's grown commercially out of the water like most aquarium plants.
Rick


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## CL

All anubias do great emersed. Just keep the top covered for humidity. And of course it's okay to bury the roots. They're roots after all


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## zeldar

I finally got the tank planted. Yay

As planned I used UG for the foreground. In the pics you can't really see it because it is so small, but it covers the whole area that looks bare. I got a bunch of anubias petite for around the stump and in the background. The guy I got the petite from also sent some what looks like narrow leaf java fern and I was needing a background plant so that was perfect. 

I think the tank really turned out well. Let me know some suggestions of what I can do to make it better. Sorry for the bad pictures, I don't have a camera right now so they are off my crappy phone.

fts









closeup









top view









Oh, and I have a question. I am going out of town around Christmas for 10 days. The tank is emmersed but I am not sure what to do as far as misting the plants, especially the anubias. They are on the high slope so it will probably become dry pretty fast, right? The only thing I could think of was to fill the tank with an inch or so of water just to be safe. Any suggestions?


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## Cichlid Junkie

I really like the way your tank is coming along.


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## PinoyBoy

zeldar said:


> Oh, and I have a question. I am going out of town around Christmas for 10 days. The tank is emmersed but I am not sure what to do as far as misting the plants, especially the anubias. They are on the high slope so it will probably become dry pretty fast, right? The only thing I could think of was to fill the tank with an inch or so of water just to be safe. Any suggestions?


ATO. Automatic Top Off.

Or something like that. But that's for marine tanks. Guess it can work for planted tanks also. Just position it over the petites.

By the way. Love the simplicity.


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## N1CK

It looks awesome , I think I want some more petite seeing as I have somehow lost the bit I had 

try filling the tank up a bit more, say till the base of the lowest petite then stick glad wrap over the whole top of the tank and it should keep it humid with the heat coming from the light (or a heater if you have hidden it somewhere)


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## zeldar

Thanks guys, yea I have saran wrap on the top of the tank already and there is quite a bit of water on the side of the tank. So I think its pretty humid in there, but is that enough to keep the anubias content?


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## Outlawboss

That should be just fine for the anubis. I'm real excited to see how this one turns out. Looking awesome!


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## Aquamadman

If you're still looking for a background plant to go in the corner instead of the ferns I think a red plant with thin leaves would suit it very well. Maybe rotala or if you want to keep it short you could also try blyxa though it wont turn red easily but still a nice choice if you ask me.

ım really loving the trunk you got. Hope the UG settles in as they tend to die off ( and bounce back according to Ugly Genious' journals ).


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## zeldar

Just a small update.

Not much has happened with the tank. I got back from vacation last week and the tank did fine. There was some decent growth with the UG. Its slowly spreading but at least its sprouting new leaves. Nothing changed with the anubias or java fern. I did add a patch of mini pellia from my other tank. It just didn't look right in that tank so I will see if it fits in here.

I just hooked up a filter to my other 10gallon to get it cycling. I am getting the itch to fill this tank up. My only concerns are the nutrients that it will need. 

I plan on dosing Excel in the tank. Would excel be sufficient for UG? I know the other plants will be fine with the excel, I am just concerned the UG needs "real" co2. 

I think I have my stocking list in order for when its ready. I want to add about 8 celestial peral danios, 5 pygmy cories, a pair of CPO's, and maybe a nerite if algae starts appearing. Let me know if you have any other suggestions as I am not dead set on the CPD's. I also considered amber tetras but they are pretty hard to find. 

A couple more cell phone pics, still don't have my camera back:

a little UG growth









mini pellia


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## Cichlid Junkie

Has there been any growth in the last few weeks?


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## Bad-Daddio

Cichlid Junkie said:


> Has there been any growth in the last few weeks?



yeah... what he said...

how is this tank coming along?

i'm also really interested in hearing the answer to your UG/excel question...


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## zeldar

I was just about to post a little update. I got my camera back finally. Not that it really helps because I still can't take a good picture. Oh well its better than the cell phone. 

Growth really hasn't boomed yet. I have been keeping the lights on 11 hrs/day but the UG still doesn't want to explode. Looking back on the old pic you can tell it has grown in some, just not to the extent I was expecting. The anubias has some new leaves as well as the narrow java fern. The mini pellia seems to have made the transition from submerged to emersed just fine. *Daddio*, I will let ya'll know how the UG/excel experiment goes.

The filter is still running on another tank and should probably be good to go. I am definitely about to fill this tank up. I bought it a heater today, so maybe another week and thats all I will be able to wait. haha

On to the pictures...

fts








UG








from above


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## MARIMOBALL

this is a great looking vscape and the plant selection is just right. what live stock are you putting in there?


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## zeldar

I filled the tank yesterday. I was getting nervous that the wood would want to float so I had a rock on top. I slowly removed the rock and the wood stayed put, so I guess its fine. 

I tested the ammonia and nitrite today and they both read 0. Its probably too early to tell though so I will keep testing daily. 

As for the stocking list. I have a pair of CPO's on the way and will house them in my other 10gallon until I know for sure this tank is cycled. Also going to add 6 pygmy corries and 8-10 Celestial Pearl Danios. Maybe a nerite or assassin snail. That will probably be all the tank can take.


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## Chrisinator

That looks awesome!


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## zeldar

just a picture update. The tank seems to have been cycled from the get go with the mature filter. I just added 8 young CPD's earlier today and will be ordering the pygmy corries next week. I'll prob throw some type of shrimp in here from my other tank. Which shrimp would look best out of CRS/CBS, blue tiger, RCS, or amano. 

















Couldn't get a good picture of the cpd's


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## RcScRs

PUT THAT HEATER UNDER NOW XD

I always liked the stripes of CRS and CBS versing the more solid tigers... CRS/CBS contrasting white gives tanks a nice movement...

Also, move the Pelia where the wood bends in front...


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## Fat Guy

what kind of filter are you using? maybe you can put that hydor heater in the filter so that it won't pull focus from your aquascape. lookin good!!


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## zeldar

I have a nice dose of slime/ blue green algae covering the substrate. It started in small spots, but now its covering most of the foreground where the UG is growing. Its not on any of the other plants, wood, or glass. 

What are some ways of getting rid of this algae? I have read that constant water changes may stop it. I already do 30% water changes every week, so should I up it to two or three changes a week? Also, would adding DIY co2 have any affect on this algae?

I am just scared that it will kill the UG since its already growing on a lot of it.


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## !shadow!

zeldar said:


> I have a nice dose of slime/ blue green algae covering the substrate. It started in small spots, but now its covering most of the foreground where the UG is growing. Its not on any of the other plants, wood, or glass.
> 
> What are some ways of getting rid of this algae? I have read that constant water changes may stop it. I already do 30% water changes every week, so should I up it to two or three changes a week? Also, would adding DIY co2 have any affect on this algae?
> 
> I am just scared that it will kill the UG since its already growing on a lot of it.


always try to find the root of the problem or else it will always keep coming back and about your bga here is a link which should help. l found it very informative on the bga subject. 
http://www.aquariumslife.com/algae-control/blue-green-algae/

l too have a problem with bga and seem to be winning at the moment . dosing kno3 also helps. if you have any other questions just send me a message i'll do my best to help. gl on the tank

One more thing what is your dozing schedule for your fertz and which kind?


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## zeldar

The BGA is really coating the foreground thick now on the right side. The left side isn't as bad, just a thin layer. I went ahead and ordered Erythromycin for treatment as this seems to be the solution for most people. From reading online about it, it sounds like it gets rid of it in a week or so. I can only hope.

Anyway, I moved the CPDs to my other 10gallon to make room for my 6 remaining cardinals. I had like 15 in my 40gallon and they started dropping like flies. For some reason the pH in that tank is over 8.6. I have peat in there and its still not dropping. So for now this tank is holding the cardinals until I can figure out whats causing the huge pH spike. 

The UG carpet is definitely at a standstill while this BGA takes over. I may have to replant once the algae is gone because I bet the right side with be destroyed underneath that mess.

I'm too embarrassed to take pictures of the tank. haha I'll get some up once the BGA subsides.


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## VadimShevchuk

That is a nice pieace of DW. I am also setting up my 10 gallon soon without pressurized co2 and im gonna be watching this journal. If its not a bother to you can you pm me on how much you paid for the DW. Also i am wondering is it okay to use cfl bulb that are 13 watt but they out put 60watt of light? They are energy efficient ones.


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## !shadow!

zeldar said:


> The BGA is really coating the foreground thick now on the right side. The left side isn't as bad, just a thin layer. I went ahead and ordered Erythromycin for treatment as this seems to be the solution for most people. From reading online about it, it sounds like it gets rid of it in a week or so. I can only hope.
> 
> Anyway, I moved the CPDs to my other 10gallon to make room for my 6 remaining cardinals. I had like 15 in my 40gallon and they started dropping like flies. For some reason the pH in that tank is over 8.6. I have peat in there and its still not dropping. So for now this tank is holding the cardinals until I can figure out whats causing the huge pH spike.
> 
> The UG carpet is definitely at a standstill while this BGA takes over. I may have to replant once the algae is gone because I bet the right side with be destroyed underneath that mess.
> 
> I'm too embarrassed to take pictures of the tank. haha I'll get some up once the BGA subsides.


try checking your phosphates with a api kit. l checked mines last time and they were at 10 lol basically the highest level on the kit. so i got some seachem phosguard and now it's 0. l also added some bubble air stones to maximize the circulation of air. now all that's left to do is watch and see what happens.


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## shoteh

That is one of the best DW I have ever seen. Your project looks great so far. Let's hope your tank is stable, I would try other fish in there first but it seems like your small ones are enjoying themselves. CAn't wait to see updates.


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## Aidan77

Hands down one of my favorite aquascapes Ive seen on here! Keep us posted


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## ThatPlantedAquariumGuy

What a great 'scape! I have a ten gallon aquarium also and always appreciate the driftwood hardscapes - they just add so much pizazz to a tank. Anyways, good luck with your algae battle and can't wait to see what it turns out looking like.


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## zeldar

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the kind words. 

I think the blue green algae is gone thanks to the erythromycin. There is still some other brown algaes but nothing too bad. 

The UG is carpeting pretty well now. 

I am going to get some pics up sometime in the next couple of days. Stay tuned.


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## BeachBum2012

Looks great so far. Can't wait to see the new pics.


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## !shadow!

Glad to have solved your bga issue, that erythromycin always does the trick! looking forward to seeing the pictures as well.


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## zeldar

I got a couple pics taken. Of course the batteries in the camera went out after a couple minutes. I got four decent pictures. As you can tell by the pictures, I still am really bad with a camera. The UG looks really bright for some reason, in fact, the whole tank is darker in real life. 

As you can see, not too much has changed with the plants. UG has obviously done some growing, nothing crazy since the blue/green algae hampered it. The right side was hit especially hard so I may pull up a little from the middle section and replant it on the right. 

Livestock wise this tank has completely changed. Can't remember if I posted this already, but I moved the CPD's to the other 10gallon so I could make some room for the 6 remaining cardinal tetras in my big tank. They won't be in here long term, the big tank seems to be stabilizing so I'll move them back home soon. I got 7 ember tetras from a fellow member as I've always liked their look. Also added 4 amano shrimp and an otto (need to get him a buddy) for algae control. The otto went to town the first day and cleaned most of the brown algae off the glass and wood. I love these fish, I don't think a planted tank would survive without them. haha

I took the advice of some of you guys and tucked the heater in the filter. This worked great and got that eyesore out of the tank. I went ahead and also threw on a DIY co2. Its a pain though since I have to refill it every week.

Alright enough jibberjabber heres some pics


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## dacrax07

So...many...anubias!


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## cichlidfan

Awesome looking tank. I really like the use of the anubias to accent the stump roots. 

What kind of lighting are you using?


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## Outlawboss

Looks really cool! Plants are doing well, tank looks cleaner without the heater and the stump with the anubis accents is hella cool! I really like this one.


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## Aidan77

> the stump with the anubis accents is hella cool! I really like this one.


+1 :biggrin:


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## !shadow!

+2 hehe btw nice olympus camera


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## talontsiawd

This is an awsome tank. I can't wait to see it fill in. I have been following the journal and realized I never commented. I really like what you did here.


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## zeldar

Just snapped a couple pics of this tank since I had the camera out.

Not much has changed other than I moved the cardinals back to the big tank. And just today I got 15 C grade shrimp. For some reason I almost like these low grade shrimp more than the high grade. Don't get me wrong the all white SSS look pretty sweet but I really like the red body with a couple thin white stripes going across. 

Plants are still the same. There is some mini pellia growing randomly on the side of the driftwood which is cool. I cut a couple pieces off of the mp and stuck it at the top of the stump just to see what happened. If it starts spreading down the trunk, it could turn out pretty nice. We'll see.


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## kcrossley

Nice design. I really like the stump idea.


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## ZooTycoonMaster

Nice UG carpet! Hopefully mine will become that


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## kcrossley

What is UG?


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## ZooTycoonMaster

Utricularia graminifolia (I hope I spelled that right) - the grass-like plant in the foreground.


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## kcrossley

What's the stuff under the stump?


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## ZooTycoonMaster

kcrossley said:


> What's the stuff under the stump?


I think you're referring to Anubias Nana 'Petite'.


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## zeldar

thanks *zoo* and *kcrossley*!

Yes the foreground is UG, around the stump is anubias petite, and there is also some narrow leaf java fern and mini pelia in there. A couple days ago I added a couple clippings of bolbitis to the back, behind the stump. I don't know if I like it in here, I'll wait to see if it "grows" on me.

The UG lawn is really getting thick. Can't see much of the substrate anymore! It probably needs a trim pretty soon. 

I added 15 snowball shrimp in here yesterday. They should just be temporary until my mini-m is ready. I don't know though because I like them in this tank, all the shrimp are like buffalo just roaming the plains. hahah 

I plan on getting some pictures up today after work. Hopefully I will remember.


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## kcrossley

zeldar said:


> Yes the foreground is UG, around the stump is anubias petite, and there is also some narrow leaf java fern and mini pelia in there.


I'm talking about the stuff under the stump but above the grass. Is that anubias petite?

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab100/gregkarnes21/P3080036.jpg


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## kcrossley

BTW, where did you get your stump?


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## zeldar

yes that is anubias petite. I highly recommend it, it doesn't have a lot of demands. It can grow in low light with or without ferts. 

I got my stump from badcop... something, I can't remember his full username. Just do a search on SnS for manzanita and his thread will be one of the first listed. Send him a PM if you are interested. He is a great guy to work with and has tonnnnnsssss of wood pieces. Ask to see his current inventory.


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## matthew.shelly

Any updated pictures? It's been almost a month since the last ones. I'm interested to see how the carpet has come in or if you have added anything.


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## zeldar

Here are the pictures I promised. Let me know if the bolbitis should stay or go:


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## yesclassic

Wow that is a great looking tank. I love the fore ground


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## VadimShevchuk

that is looking sexy! UG Looks very good


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## MWBradshaw

**Badcopnofishtank**

He sells a lot of Manzanita, I have some soaking right now! I love it!!


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## AlexXx

wow that ug is looking amazing!


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## ZooTycoonMaster

Nice UG!!! Do you know how long it took for it to fill in like that? Because I have some UG as well and I'm wondering how long it'll take for it to fill my 10 gallon tank.


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## zeldar

I think its been about 4 months since I planted the UG. However, I started it with just excel and it didn't seem to like it very well. It didn't spread very fast and the color of the UG was washed out and just didn't look healthy. Once I slapped the DIY co2 on, it grew like wildfire. 

*Zoo*, I just looked at your 10g thread and its off to a good start. I suggest breaking the UG up into smaller clumps and plant them closer together. Its a ton of work but its worth it. I got lazy towards the end of my planting and starting throwing clumps into the soil, however, when the clumps started to spread the runners were growing every which way. Mainly growing straight up because UG doesn't have good roots. Therefore it was just a waste of time because the only way it was spreading was up towards the light.


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## ZooTycoonMaster

zeldar said:


> *Zoo*, I just looked at your 10g thread and its off to a good start. I suggest breaking the UG up into smaller clumps and plant them closer together. Its a ton of work but its worth it. I got lazy towards the end of my planting and starting throwing clumps into the soil, however, when the clumps started to spread the runners were growing every which way. Mainly growing straight up because UG doesn't have good roots. Therefore it was just a waste of time because the only way it was spreading was up towards the light.


I know, I planted mine in clumps that are too big. Mainly because there wasn't enough room to plant them individually. However I do see some runners poking out of the soil, so I'll wait and see how they come along.


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## zeldar

One of my 2 remaining SS CRS is finally berried!!! I thought they were both males since they never had eggs but yesterday I saw that she was berried. I have no idea what could have triggered it, its heating up here in Houston and the tank water is about 78 and water parameters have remained the same. Well a couple of the snowballs have become berried so maybe the CRS took some notes. haha


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## SirKappa

Great scape Zeldar. I love the stump and the UG carpet. I hope my UG turns out as good as yours!

How do you like the AZOO Plant Grower Bed? I have been considering ordering some of this for myself.


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## becks17

Nice job with the UG, looks great!


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## zeldar

*Kappa*, thanks for the kind words. I like the AZOO lottttssss better than aquasoil. I've tried both amazonia I and II and both have been trouble for me. The amazonia I leeched tannins bad for 6 months and still to this day the water is tinged yellow. I just started a tank with amazonia II and the grainules broke down real bad for me when I was planting my HC. With all the broken pieces in there they get kicked up in the water column (from the filter I guess). So the water is real brown, with a layer of "dirt" film on the water surface. 

As for the Azoo, the water has been clear from day 1. Also there is no ammonia spike when starting a new tank. It still lowers the pH considerably which my water needed. However, all I am growing in the Azoo is UG. It is growing perfectly fine, but I do agree amazonia works wonders on tougher to grow plants such as HC.

Thanks *becks*!


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## AlexXx

i deff wanna try that azoo substrate, looks like its working wonders for you, and is fairly cheap!


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## zeldar

I wouldn't say its cheap. Its like $28 plus shipping. So it sounds like the same price as aquasoil but you get less substrate. However, like I said, I like it much more than the aquasoil and one bag filled my standard 10gallon well enough. Highly recommended!!


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## AlexXx

ahh , i didnt look at the weights, i was dead this morning lol finals week is killing my soul. All i saw was $14.99 lol.


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## VincentK

I also like your UG carpet, and that little patch of plant at the mid right.


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## SirKappa

Great to know about the substrate. I have heard in Texas you guys have liquid rock for water. Pretty much the same here. 7kH 9 GH pH >7.6 .I will be ordering it to Canada here but it will cost an arm and a leg but I like GLA. My only option for anything of this sort locally would be RedSea Florabase but I have read a lot of negative reviews on it.

Do you know how much it lowers your pH by? And how about hardness?


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## zeldar

well my pH out of the tap is around 8 and in this tank it reads 6.8-7.2. As for hardness, I've only tested a couple of times but it seemed to read moderate. I don't know if its from the substrate or what, but I haven't tested it in several months.


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## !shadow!

l tested my water yesterday and my tap water is 4kh  and around what zeldar said on ph.


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## SirKappa

Wow that's good news! I can't wait to try it now.


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## AquaDean

Just looked at this thread for the first time. That stump and the whole look of this tank is awesome! Very cool


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## ferretowner96

Oh my gosh! I kept thinking, why hasn't he added water, and then I noticed your bubble counter, and the water was there. LOL That set up is sweet! I love how clear your tank is!


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## zeldar

Well, I'm on a update roll so may as well keep it going.

Now I have both my SS CRS and SS CBS berried! Along with about 5 or 6 snowballs. So thats the reason for the nasty sponge prefilter. haha

I moved the bolbitis over to the left corner and like it better there. I need to take that normal java fern out of here. I thought I only put needle leaf in here but I guess one rhizome of regular java snuck in here. 

There is specks of mini pellia that have started sticking to the stump. Now its starting to slowly spread. It could turn out super sweet and have MP covering the entire stump. You can see where its going crazy on the far right "root". 









You can sorta see the MP specks I was talkin about in this pic








berried snowball








MP coving the root








side of the root


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## !shadow!

very nice the anubias really make it stand out. can't wait till the mp spreads.


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## ZooTycoonMaster

Wow...you could make a profit selling some UG and MP

I used a prefilter in the past that's black and will blend in with your background. It's the replacement sponge for the Zoo Med 501 Canister Filter. The hole may be a bit small, but I think you can cut it. I believe you can find it at Petsmart in the reptile section since they sell the filters there.


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## zeldar

update time

I removed the mini pellia patch from here because I wanted to use it on another tank. There is still plenty of it growing on the stump. Not much else has changed, except the neddle java is really blowing up on the right side. 

There are lots and lots of snowball babies lurking in the UG. One of the pictures I snapped has like 10 shrimp in it. haha


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## VadimShevchuk

saw your thread on SnS that your selling your UG. Whats next in line for the foreground?


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## zeldar

I think I'm going with marsilea minuta. It doesn't grow as tall as the UG so the stump's roots will be more visible. Also, you hear everybody on here complain about trimming UG, but until you do it, you truly do not realize the PITA that it is. And while trimming, I uprooted several spots and UG doesn't have the best root systems so its really hard to get back in the substrate.

Sooo I have a nice patch of MM in another tank that I am going to pull out and separate and plant in here. So this tank will be realllly low maintenance, which is perfect.


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## dj2005

I'm not sure how I missed this thread, but great job on the scape. And MM looks good in any tank, IMO.


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## ZooTycoonMaster

Aaawww...well the UG looked good while it lasted I like MM also because it's easier to grow. Good luck with it!


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## VadimShevchuk

Zeldar, your scape actually inspired my 37. Im gonna do a UG carpet with a raised section on the right and ill have Blyxa Japonica and vals.


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## PinoyBoy

So how did you trim your UG?

Did you... accidentally cut any shrimps?


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## zeldar

Thanks *dj* and *Zoo*! Zoo, I have had mm in my other tank for well over a year and haven't touched it. No trimming, no maintenance.

*Vadim*, glad I could give a vision for your tank. UG is a sweeeet foreground plant if you are dedicated to it. I have so many tanks that I can't give it all the dedication it needs. I need a couple tanks where I don't have much maintenance. 

*Pinoy*, I only trimmed it twice. It is pretty tedious work. I just used some SS scissors and started hacking. It took a solid 30minutes to get the whole thing pretty well cut. I tried to be careful with all the shrimp and as far as I could see, didn't cut any shrimp. The real pain is trying to get all the cuttlings out of the tank. I mean they stuck in EVERYTHING. The nana petite looked like a carpet of UG. haha I would honestly say it took over 45minutes to get it all out.


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## zeldar

got some new pics to post.

As you can see the UG is all gone. I have been meaning to plant the marsilea minuta but keep putting it off. 

Other than that not much has changed. There must be well over 100 snowball shrimp in there and I need to sell some soon. The java fern is realllly growing like crazy. Whats the best way to prune java? Should I just remove some of the rhizomes?

fts


















closeup of the top of the stump. I have never added any fissidens in this tank yet there is some growing on the stump. go figure.









mini pellia coating the roots









only a couple crs left in here


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## PinoyBoy

So the mp just attached itself on other parts of the wood? Nice.

When will you trim your petite collection? Dibs on most of 'em if you do :biggrin:


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## zeldar

I finally got around to pulling up some marsilea minuta and planted it in here for a foreground. I actually kind of liked not having any foreground but I will see how the MM goes. 

The narrow leaf java is blowing up on the right side but doesn't seem to be doing much on the left side. I planted the same amount all along the back but I guess the petite is hindering the growth in the back left. 









just to gauge growth


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## dj2005

The MM will complement the petites very well, and will also not engulf the tree's roots too much like UG can. Glad to see you finally got the MM planted. :tongue:

To trim Java Fern you can clip the leaves off at the rhizome or just clip off a chunk of the rhizome.


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## PinoyBoy

How's the mm carpet doing?


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## zeldar

Well the MM carpet hasn't done a thing. I can seriously count 3 new leaves out of the whole carpet. haha I guess I should slap on a DIY co2 to get it going because at this pace it will never carpet.


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## zeldar

Heres a couple pics to show the growth, or lack thereof: 










i love how the MP is spreading on the stump









no growth


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## FrostyNYC

MM did absolutely nothing for me too. I had it under 4wpg, pressurized CO2, in aquasoil, and it sat there for months. It didnt DIE, but it barely grew any new leaves. So frustrating, and so slow. 

On the other hand, your java fern and petites are gorgeous. Very nice.


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## PinoyBoy

Actually i think it looks great just like that. It has an open look yet it doesn't have that empty feel. Looks like your anubias grows faster than ur mm ^^.


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## zeldar

haha yea well i just planted the MM a couple weeks ago so I'm not expecting great growth right now. I did get around to hooking up a diy co2 so we will see if that helps the MM get settled. 

I do have some BBA on my mini pellia and old anubias leaves. I don't want to dose excel because although it does clear the BBA right up, it kills the mini pellia as well. So hopefully the co2 might help a tad, if not, i will just have to live with it. Oh, I could move my siamese algae eater over for a couple weeks and let him do his thing. 

Thanks for the compliments *Frosty* and *Pinoy*! *Frosty*, yea Ive had MM in another tank and it took it a solid year to get to where it was "carpeted" but oh well, that means less trimming.


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## zeldar

I went to town with the camera today so I will just update all my threads. ahha

Nothing different here except I removed all the snowballs and turning this into a CRS farm. I added ~12 SS CRS and 4 golden/white CRS. I switched over to RO since our water is to hard and has a high ph for CRS. Hopefully this will lead to successful breeding. 

Other than that, still have plenty of BBA. I have been dosing excel and lots of the BBA seems to be dying. But there is a BUNCH of it in here. Again prob need to add teh SAE to truly get it out.



















a couple golden crs


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## VincentK

Looks good, the MP on the wood looks really good, really gives it a natural, mossy look. The needle leaf java fern, however, looks a bit out of place. I think it would look a lot better if it was in the back left corner, behind the wood, but it's just an idea.


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## PinoyBoy

The back left corner does look empty, but it doesn't attract attention unless mentioned. I hope you get some very nice shrimp grades out of those crs.


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## zeldar

haha yea the java fern is still outta control. I trimmed several of the rhizomes but should take some more and move it to the left side. To be honest, I planted the same amout on the left and right side. I have no idea what happened to the left side. It didn't take off at all, the only thing I can think of is the anubias just shaded the java too much.


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## zeldar

I gave the anubias and needle java fern a good hack today. I moved some of the java to the left side of the tank to give it some balance. Does it look alright there?

The marsilea is still slowlyyyyy growing but I love this tank because I don't have to trim it but maybe once a month. The BBA seems to be all but gone from this tank thanks to Excel. That stuff really is a miracle worker against BBA except it seems to discolor and/or kill the mini pellia. We will see how long I can avoid BBA this time.










































I think most of my CRS are still alive, I have counted 10 CRS and 3 goldens.


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## DANIELSON

Wow i love the stump in there and the scape has really came a long way it looks great. I would love for my shrimp tanks to look that good.


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## problemman

Love this tank setup.following this


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## boltp777

nice set up love the stump i need to get one for my setup


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## boltp777

i would love to get some of that java fern and anubais once it starts taking off!


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## zeldar

Thanks a bunch *danielson* and *problemman*!

*bolt*, thanks and I'll let you know next time I am about to trim. It might be a little while because i just did a major trim a week or so ago. But the java grows like crazy and the anubias seems to be picking up as of late.


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## zeldar

A couple new pics. Once again, I am having trouble keeping CRS. I am down to about 4 of them. I really just think its the heat. The tank water was about 76-78 since we have been in the 90's here in Houston. Now that its cooled down somewhat, the water is down to around 73. I need to step up and ditch the walmart hood. lol I think thats just insulating all the heat. 










I just love the MP on the stump, its growing perfectly.


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## msnikkistar

Greg, if you don't get a fan soon, I am not sending you any shrimp!


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## !shadow!

That's right cause they're all going to me :icon_lol:, just my 2 cents but the tank would look much better if you scrubbed the algae off of the glass other than that nice tank.


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## zeldar

Nikki, tank water is down to 73!!! Gimme Gimme Gimme!!!

Shadow, dang, someone noticed! haha Yea actually it looks much worse in the pics than it does in person. I can't even see the algae on the side glass in person but the back wall is a little gross. Its just so hard to scape it since its now hard algae. My little magnet cleaner won't get it off, so I will have to brake out the razor blade one of these days.


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## !shadow!

credit card might do as well for scraping. On a diff note, how far is spring texas from austin?


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## zeldar

Spring is a suburb of Houston, about 45 minutes north. I haven't been to Austin from Houston but I would imagine its about 2.5 - 3 hrs.


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## problemman

How did you attach your mini pellia? I really want to get some.


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## msnikkistar

zeldar said:


> Nikki, tank water is down to 73!!! Gimme Gimme Gimme!!!


Make it stay there for 2 weeks straight, and you will get yourself some nice Mosura from me 



problemman said:


> How did you attach your mini pellia? I really want to get some.


Superglue can be your friend


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## zeldar

Actually, I did not do one thing. I just put some in the top of the stump in the crevices. I guess, it just came off the top and floated around and stuck to the wood in other places. Nature just took care of it for me. lol

Nikki, down to 70 degrees!!!! I have 3 SS left and havent lost one in about a week! I am a champion crs keeper now! ha not really.


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## msnikkistar

zeldar said:


> Nikki, down to 70 degrees!!!! I have 3 SS left and havent lost one in about a week! I am a champion crs keeper now! ha not really.


I am not giving you mosuras until you can keep those 3 alive for 2 weeks. LOL


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## problemman

I figured that lol


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## McGillicutty

!shadow! said:


> credit card might do as well for scraping. On a diff note, how far is spring texas from austin?


2.5 hours depending on the route and the amount of traffic.


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## zeldar

A little update here.

Since it would take the MM about 2 years to carpet this thing, I added a second carpet plant, mini microsword. I've been looking for an excuse to try this plant so decided to give it a go. Its always a possiblilty that I could decide to go all microsword and pull the MM or vice versa. Its another wait and see thing.

I also made an awesome trade and got ~30 S-SS crs. I am hoping these guys do better than the last batch. I think my problem before was the water temp, so I got it down to 68-70 now that its cooler here in Houston. I'm crossin my fingers that I can finally get these buggers to breed.























































dont squirt Excel directly on MP


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## !shadow!

lf you don't scrub off that algae i'm going to tell nikki not to sell you no more shrimp :icon_mrgr


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## msnikkistar

The algae is good for the shimpies


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## !shadow!

ah yes l was just about to tell zeldar that . keep up the good work with the algae *pats head*


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## msnikkistar

Lololol


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## problemman

Zeldar if I could make a small suggestion?

Honestly I think you should go with the all micro sword and nix the mm.

Reason for this thought is I feel that having a foreground full of mm and the petite anubias it will just blend all together. Making seem a little rough. I believe that micro will soften the whole appearance.

And yay for new shrimps!


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## EntoCraig

:icon_eek: AWESOME


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## zeldar

Hey, I did clean the glass! Just not the back wall. haha

I agree problemman. I originally liked the MM, if for no other reason than not having to trim or anything. lol But it seems the microsword stays low and its almost like UG which I had in here before, but with less work. I think I'll pull the MM, any objections? If you want some MM, let me know, I'll probably wait until after Thanksgiving to put it up on SnS.


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## zeldar

Brace yourself for my monthly updates of all my tanks. Sorry for hogging the top of the forums. lol

I did end up removing all the marsilea and am going for a whole mini microsword carpet. I know it will take forever but maybe it will surprise me and take off. A new plant was added today actually. Crepidomanes Auriculatum which was from AFA. Its to the right of the top of the stump. I had been eying it for a while and finally decided to get it. It kinda reminds me of bolbitis and really adds some "age" to the tank I think. Just the way it droops over, feels like its been there for ages. Also today, I removed a bunch of the needle java from the right side. It was really starting to take over as the focal point.

Today I had a revelation. The reason my CRS have slowly been dying is Excel. I don't know if I had never heard of this before or I just choose to ignore it, but that has to be the culprit. According to Nikki I have the signs. My crs are slowly dying off and are not breeding. I still have a good 20 of them so hopefully without the dosing of excel, they can recover and do some breeding.









the new guy








nothin much yet


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## problemman

How much was that fern cuz I dr wan't one


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## zeldar

this updates for u problemman! haha The fern was rather pricey but the only place ive seen it for sale is at AFA so I guess your paying for the rarity. Its worth it to me, best fern ive worked with.

Not much else going on, growth is uber slow with the mini microsword. I just trimmed a bunch of the older leaves that had BBA on it. BBA continues to be a problem in this tank for some reason. I guess because there are a bunch of slow growing plants which are susceptible to BBA. The MP is getting close to fully covering the stump, which is pretty sweet.



















can you find the stump? haha









come on microsword, GROWWWW









a couple new stems on the neato fern


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## problemman

Jeez I figured the micro sword would be covering by now.... Maybe you should go with e.tennelus lol looking good brotha! That stump looks sweet all coverd in that mp!


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## zeldar

yea, i dont get it. i pump co2 and dose regualar ferts and it just wont spread. im getting a new light and am going to move the crs to a new tank so ill pump the co2 up more soon.


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## !shadow!

if you don't scrub that glass ...


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## problemman

zeldar said:


> yea, i dont get it. i pump co2 and dose regualar ferts and it just wont spread. im getting a new light and am going to move the crs to a new tank so ill pump the co2 up more soon.


I hope!


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## zeldar

hahahahha shadow. I promise I can't even tell except in pictures. It must be something about the camera that brings out the algae lol. I am just going to stick with Nikki's excuse, the algae is good for the shrimp! haha


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## !shadow!

oh yes l completely believe you,stupid camera..:hihi:


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## problemman

I would stick with its good for the shrimp! Lol


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## PinoyBoy

Any updates to this tank?


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## zeldar

well unfortunatley, this thing is COVERED in BBA. All the microsword is now black fuzz and much of the anubias is the same. But for some reason the MP on the wood is basically perfect.

So i am in the process of moving the CRS to a mini-m so I can dose some excel. 

On another sad note, I am probably breaking this tank down in the near future. I am in the process of taking down my other 10gallon and this will be next. Although, this was my favorite tank, I decided to downsize my tank collection and only keeping 3 small tanks. Soooo, look for these plants and wood on SnS in the future. Please don't PM ahead of time because maybe the miracle Excel will change my mind to break this tank down


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## Cottagewitch

zeldar said:


> On another sad note, I am probably breaking this tank down in the near future. I am in the process of taking down my other 10gallon and this will be next. Although, this was my favorite tank, I decided to downsize my tank collection and only keeping 3 small tanks. Soooo, look for these plants and wood on SnS in the future. Please don't PM ahead of time because maybe the miracle Excel will change my mind to break this tank down



I hope the Excel is successful. I really like this tank and would hate to see it tore down.


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## zeldar

Well Jenna, it seems the excel is doing its thing. The BBA is slowly going away. However, thats causing the pellia to discolor. Hopefully it doesn't fully die on me.

I don't know the cause, but the mini microsword is just not spreading at all. You can tell from the pictures that since I planted it months ago, it hasn't done much at all. Maybe being covered in BBA halted the growth? Its all still green, just not growing.

A couple plant additions: crypt nurii and trident java fern. Most of the needle leaf java was removed and replaced with the shorter growing trident. The nurii I had in a different tank but I liked it so much that I wanted it to be more of a focal point in a tank so moved it here. Its such a beautiful plant.

















crypt nurii








no growth  I want it to carpet sooo bad


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## EntoCraig

I have noticed that Excel can dwarf or stop the growth of many plants in higher doses. When i stopped dosing my sagataria (similar to your chain sword) started spreading.


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## chad320

Excel will kill your MP for sure. Id do a WC or get it out ASAP. Any of the liverworts respond terrible to Excel. S'tang, pellia, MP, Notocyphus, or rose mosses.


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## dj2005

Odd that your mini micro sword has not grown. It does take a while to settle in but, to say the least, it should have by now. Both my 7.5G and 10G tanks are dense with the stuff so I'm not sure what is causing the lack of growth for yours.

On the bright side, once it does fill in it will create a beautiful, no maintenance carpet. 

And I agree with Chad, Excel will destroy your MP.


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## Kibblemania1414

i am so jealous of that tank.. *grumble..
but that just hit me, i ought to start my tank unsubmerged. 
thats what u did, right?


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## zeldar

Kibble, no I didn't start this tank emmersed.

Someone helppppp. BBA is really killin me. I pulled the decent mini microsword carpet since it was engulfed in it. The MP is getting dangerously close to getting overtaken. Ugh, I don't even want to talk more about it.


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## hamsterman

jeebus that sucks


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## EntoCraig

how much co2 are you getting into your tank? 30ppm should keep the BBA at bay. Also consider lowering the photo period. I have also heard that iron helps combat red algae.


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## zeldar

Well I dont really know how much co2 gets into the tank. About 2 weeks ago, I turned it up to 2 bubbles per second and its a 10g tank so that should be quite a bit. However, its diffused through an ebay diffuser so no telling how much gets into the water column. I should prob turn the photo period down, its at 8hrs a day. 

Has anyone else heard that iron helps against BBA? I have a full bottle of Flourish Iron that I could use but I figured more ferts = more algae. Any other thoughts?


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## Burks

I'm betting you are getting that 30ppm of CO2, even with the eBay diffuser. I used one in my 40g breeder at ~4bps, I hit 30ppm with no problem.


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## Aphyosemion

I was able to get rid of BBA by high dosing excel and increasing the CO2 in one of my tanks to bring the PH down. It will definitely kill simpler plants that don't have roots like pelia and mosses though, so I don't think it's an option for you. I have heard if you keep your PH low enough it will go away as well, since it prefers a higher PH.


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## zeldar

thanks for the attempted help guys. Ugh its actually getting much worse. The strands of BBA are waving in the current. They are dang near an inch long. I just want to puke when I look in the tank. 

I may have to cut my losses and start hitting it with excel again. The high co2 and high flow just arent putting a dent in it, if anything its making it worse. The ph in the tank is in the low 6's so I dont think thats the culprit. gH and kH are extremely low as well do to the tank being mostly RO water. 

So I guess the MP on the stump was cool while it lasted. It's nuking time.


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## Inkling

doomyiwagumi said:


> I've never heard that iron has anything to do with BBA blooms.


:icon_eek: You know, I just had a weird flashback to someone telling me that iron did have something to do with BBA...but I can't for the life of me remember who it was...and it seems like it was a very long time ago. I have the feeling that I respected the person. Maybe a professor? *Sits down to think long and hard about this*


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## narhay

I put excel into a pipette and squirted it directly on the BBA. It turned red and died out after a few doses.


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## zeldar

Well its been a while since an update, and this tank has gone through a pretty big change. I had to throw out all the anubias petite which broke my heart because there was a ton there but the BBA just took it over. Same thing with the mini pellia on the wood and the mini microsword. It was all removed and hoped to start over with no BBA. 

Its actually been a good decision as BBA has stayed away for the most part except for a little on the glass, the diffuser, and wood. I planted some belem hairgrass several months ago but it just hasnt taken off like i thought it would. I think the substrate is basically out of nutrients since the belem just wont spread at all even with normal liquid ferts and high co2. I keep telling myself to get some root tabs but I always forget ahha. 

I added some different plants to take the place of the anubias and MP. This tank did have a couple small rhizomes of bolbitis but I added some more to make it the dominant plant in this tank. I will keep an eye on it and make sure to remove the big leaves as i know it won't stay this small. But for now I really like the look it gives this tank. I also added hydrocoyle which is staying pretty short under the 40watts. I don't know if it really fits in this scape but i love the plant so much that I had to have it growing in one of my tanks haha. The plant I like the most that I added to this scape is the crypt nurrii in the back. I started with one plant and its since grown quite a bit and given off lots of small plantlets. In fact, the whole back of the tank is carpeted in the nurrii and I want to see if i can keep it going and maybe even carpet the rest of the substrate! That would look crazy.

The current livestock includes: ~6 young asian rummies (were meant for my 40g but they were tiny when i got them in so i didnt want them to be eaten in there. Once they get a little bigger they will be moved.), ~5 CPD's, 3 clown killies, ~6 pygmy corys, 1 albino bristlenose, 2 ottos, 3 amano shrimp










crypt nurrii









side view









asian rummy









female killie









bristlenose


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## bpb

Awesome 10 gallon. Haven't seen alot of folks on here from spring. I grew up there.


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## EntoCraig

Brilliant scape.


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## Newman

very nice!


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## !shadow!

That pellia on the last pic looks really nice on the wood.


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## zeldar

thanks *bpb*, appreciate it. where in Spring did you live?

thank you *entocraig* and *newman*!

*shadow*, i really like the way the mini pellia is growing on the stump now. Its all thanks to the bristlenose plec. She has chomped most of it down and now its just the little bits here and there. I think it looks like a real stump would look with a little algae on it. Its much darker green in person and looks nicer IMO.


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## bpb

I graduated from Spring HS in 2001, moved here to College Station, attended A&M and have been here since. I go visit my folks still in spring on occasion though. I really like the rocks you are using in your iwagumi. Where did you come across those?


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## demosthenes

i love the bolbitis! your tank looks awesome! although im a sucker for tree stump scapes, ABN Plecos, and hydrocotyles, too...


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## zeldar

I got the rocks down in Houston at ADG. They have a nice selection of different scaping rocks.

thanks demosthenes!


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## Gnomecatcher

Looks great. I love the bolbitis, definitely more than anubias. For whatever reason, anubias is one of those plants that I just don't like to look at.

More ferts do not = more algae. You can fertilize all you want, but the algae will not be able to utilize those nutrients if it is out-competed for CO2. Also, high light will most definitely contribute to algae growth. I think part of your problem is that you don't have enough fast growing plants to take advantage of all that CO2. When there is so much extra CO2, or when there is fluctuations in CO2, algae starts to take advantage, as it is very efficient at utilizing CO2. Don't take my word for it, but what I've been reading about algae suggests that this would be the cause.


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## zeldar

Gnomecatcher- that theory sounds like it could be true in my case. All these plants are slowgrowers except the hydrocotyle. I may turn the co2 down a bit, although algae is not bad right now. Hate to change anything right now for the fear of outbreak.


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## Gnomecatcher

If you do change CO2, change it very slowly so the plants have time to adjust. I think the problem is that algae is so good at adjusting to changes in CO2, that if there was suddenly less CO2, the plants would have a harder time with the uptake of the "hard to get" CO2, but algae would make the change very swiftly and smother your plants.


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## zeldar

Update: pulled the hydrocotyle and replaced it with a different hydrocotyle haha. Other than that the crypt nurrii has completely carpeted the back portion of the tank! Now its slowly filling in the rest of the tank. I think it looks pretty awesome. I know the bolbitis is way to big for this tank but the clown killies hide in it since it reaches the water surface. I'll replace it with something with a better scale someday.









nurrii carpet!








dwarf hydrocotyle


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## xjasminex

I have followed this for a few months and it is quite an inspiring tank!
The crypt in the back looks like a patch of fallen leaves in the woods, i think it really adds to the tanks as a whole scene!


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## !shadow!

I like that new hydro. something i'll probably use to replace my pennywort down the road.


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## zeldar

Thanks jasmine!

shadow- the hydrocotlye is awesome, ive used it in a couple tanks and its always been a fave of mine. It does grow like crazy and needs regular trimmings but still a great plant.


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## Gnomecatcher

Is that Hydrocotyle tripartita? (aka Japan)

I love the crypt. Looks awesome.

There is this fern that you have in the way back corner behind the bolbitis that looks different from bolbitis. Is there a different species that you put in there?


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## zeldar

Gnome - I dont really know what kind of Hydrocotyle it is. Ive always called it Hydrocotyle Sibthor... dont know the rest haha. 

Yes its a fern I got from AFA called "Rare Taiwanese true aquatic fern (crepidomanes Auriculatum)" on their website. I love it, its such a cool little fern.


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## Gnomecatcher

Oh okay. Yeah I saw it there, I was thinking of getting it but other people say it needs high light and CO2.


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## Rookiiwoo

Speaking of the stump, where did you get it??


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## desertfish24

Great tank and thread!


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## AGUILAR3

c. nurii looks freaking awesome.


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## poormanisme

sorry wrong post.


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