# Powerhead installed - fish immediately unhealthy!!!



## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Ugh I'm not happy about this one, and am appealing to anyone who might have some insight:

I bought a Hydor Koralia 1 (400 gph) powerhead for my 46G tank, to both improve circulation and improve the efficiency of my existing canister filter.

Within 20 minutes of installing it, I noticed lots of excitement from my tetras, but totally listless behavior from my honey gourami's. The remainder of my fish seemed to be unaffected. One of the honey's in particular seemed to be in AWFUL shape, totally out of the blue. Prior to installing this powerhead, I had not had a death or even a sick-looking fish in months. One of my honey gourami's was dead within a few hours.

Here's what I'm thinking - when I installed the powerhead, I stressed the fish out a bit, probably more than when I do my weekly water changes. However this still doesn't explain the sudden downfall of the honey gourami's. *My only thought is that the powerhead stirred up significant amounts of *stuff* and ammonia from the bottom of my tank, and drastically changed my water's chemistry within mere minutes. 
*
Since I have turned off the powerhead (it was only on for 20-30 minute), things seem to have gotten somewhat back to normal. I have hopes that the surviving honey gourami's will recover and that the rest of my fish will continue to remain unaffected.

Any help on this topic is MUCH appreciated, because besides my one theory (in bold above), I am totally lost on what happened and how I could negatively affect the health of my tank so quickly.

Not even sure if I ever should use the powerhead again....at the very least I won't until I do a significant (40%) water change.

I don't want to lose any more fish - HELP!


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

1) How would it improve your canister filter's efficiency?

2) Such a rapid change in water chemistry is impractical from the use of a powerhead. If lots of debris/detritus was stirred up, you would still need bacterial breakdown of it to produce ammonia, which doesn't take minutes. Oh, and bacteria is also everywhere in your tank, so that doesn't make much sense.

3) It's probably stress from the powerhead. Did you use the foam/shroud? Maybe one or two got curious and ventured too closely and got partially clipped by the impeller.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

I was told (and it makes sense to me at least) that more water movement would increase the amount of material going through the canister and therefore, improve its efficiency and lead to cleaner water. I hope I'm explaining this so it makes sense.

Thanks for your point on #2 - I agree with you and I don't think my theory is a great one, but like I said it's all I got.

As for #3, that was my initial thought but prior to tossing the dead honey gourami, I took a good look at him and he was cosmetically perfect - even his color. No shredded fins or anything. Still a possibility though - maybe he got sucked in and had internal injuries.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

It indirectly affects efficiency. OK, gotcha.

If the fish was cosmetically in good condition, it most likely didn't tumble through the impeller. Have you seen what an impeller does to fish? Not good.

Where did you put the powerhead in the tank? Is it injected with CO2?


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

Intresting thread......


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

haha no i've never seen a fish go through an impeller, although i certainly have used a blender...so i can imagine.

i put the powerhead in the back corner of my tank, opposite my Magnum 350 canister filter. 

i wouldn't think the 400 gph would be too much for my tank, especially considering my filter is supposedly 350 gph...and doesn't seem to move the water all that much unless i have the output violently breaking the surface of the water. if it were too much, i don't think the fish would get ill from exhaustion so fast...not to mention continue to deteriorate after I turned the powerhead off.

still lost but like EdTheEdge said...at least this is an interesting topic!!


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## Harris36 (Apr 16, 2008)

My tetras and rasboras don't mind stronger currents. I've never had Gourami's, but I'm pretty sure they need to be able to get to the surface to get a gulp of air...like bettas? Those Hydor powerheads move a lot of water. Are the Gourami's having trouble getting to the top?


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

no they're not having any trouble getting to the top at all...and from what I remember of the brief minutes i had the powerhead on, they actually spent more time at the top than normal. this could be a total coincidence though.

maybe the powerhead itself had some sort of chemical residue on it?


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## jjp2 (May 24, 2008)

Gourami's are labrinth fish which breath air from the top. This means you need about 1/2 inch gap between the water and the tops of the tank. Gourami's also prefer calm water. It's likely they are stressed from the sudden incase in current. You could try re-aiming the new flow to create an area of high current for the tetra's and a calmer lower current area for the gourami's.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Maybe you could move the powerhead lower by an inch or two and point it slightly downward. That would leave the upper part of the tank with less intense flow.

Or you could buy the nano model instead. I have nanos in my 40Bs and they can move the water all the way across the tank.


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## sick lid (Jan 13, 2008)

Agree with Harris36. I've got a Koralia 1 in my 180, and it does indeed move a lot of water. Maybe cover up 1/2 of the back to cut down the flow. As mentioned, most gouramis don't like strong current.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Agreed with all that the last few people have said - and i guess that must be what did it, but it stills strikes me as strange that having the powerhead on for less than 30 minutes would a)kill a gourami within hours and b)make my other remaining honey gourami's so ill that i don't think they'll make it. 

very strange and i guess i'm looking for a clearer answer that probably doesn't exist.

i considered buying the nano too...darn! now very unclear on what do with the powerhead - to reposition it, or not use it at all. i think i'll try facing it towards a corner and blocking off about half the intake - thanks sick_lid.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

jjp2 said:


> Gourami's are labrinth fish which breath air from the top. This means you need about 1/2 inch gap between the water and the tops of the tank. Gourami's also prefer calm water. It's likely they are stressed from the sudden incase in current. You could try re-aiming the new flow to create an area of high current for the tetra's and a calmer lower current area for the gourami's.



I don't know if you've used a koralia, but they don't create a flow like a normal powerhead. I doubt that the 1 would stop the gourami from being able to surface.

OP--I'm feeling sorta guilty now, as I pushed you to try this out. I can't imagine any way the powerhead could have done this other than having possibly turned up a ton of gunk.

Have you done a water test? Step one to diagnosing a problem is doing a water test, then doing a water change if you think ammonia could have been a part of it. 

I wish there was more to say, but unfortunately everything else is just theory and there isn't much we can actually say for certain.

Keep me posted. Good luck!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

over_stocked said:


> OP--I'm feeling sorta guilty now, as I pushed you to try this out. I can't imagine any way the powerhead could have done this other than having possibly turned up a ton of gunk.


Hey don't sweat it, I'll figure it out. Might be able to get a full test at a LFS tonite and if not, tomorrow. I've never really gotten too much into water testing on my own (beyond pH) because I've always found it be be kind of a chicken-before-the-egg thing...but that's a conversation for a whole another thread.

In the meantime, the powerhead is staying off and my eyes are staying observant.

If anyone else is reading this thread - I've come up with a better way to verbalize what is happening with my honey gourami's - they look like they're paralyzed. Perfect coloration and fins, they just barely move. When they do move, it's mostly because of a small current or desire to be in a slightly different position...they flale, and then go back to being motionless and totally still. All motion is generation from their tails - not their 'arm' fins like is normal.


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## jjp2 (May 24, 2008)

I do use the koralia's in my 55. I have tried the 1 but it was way too much then swapped it for the nano. I had to reposition because my opaline gourami's went to the bottom of the tank and lost their color. In my opinion, the honey gourami was stressed and refused to go through the current to get to the surface which is what did it in. Yes, it could have gone through the current, but it didn't want to. This is what I noticed with mine.


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## sostoudt (Aug 22, 2008)

there might be current in the water(electric kind) the power head may have a short. in reef tanks where there is alot of equipment many people put in ground probes to prevent electricuting the fish. note just because it doesn't shock you doesn't mean its not shocking the fish


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

sostoudt said:


> there might be current in the water(electric kind) the power head may have a short. in reef tanks where there is alot of equipment many people put in ground probes to prevent electricuting the fish. note just because it doesn't shock you doesn't mean its not shocking the fish


I JUST thought of this too.

How old is the Koralia pump, and did you buy it new or used?

I believe Koralias had a voltage leakage problem when they were first introduced.

Why didn't I think of it sooner? Good call.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

good call on the electricity in the water. A person on another forum just put a new pump in his reef and stuck his hand in there and got a big shock. He doesn't have a grounding pole.

This is a good thread, I am considering getting a Nano for my 55g for more flow but was deciding if a #1 would be better


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## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

What a baffling experience to go through and the poor fish:angel: I would have never thought of the grounding issue for a power head. Hope you figure this one out
:fish:


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

wow this new direction is very interesting!



epicfish said:


> How old is the Koralia pump, and did you buy it new or used?


it was brand new, with all included accessories and from everything i could tell, totally 'new' and in full working condition. it was silent and operated functionally-flawless.

i've taken the powerhead out of the tank as of about 5P EST Saturday, and turned the light out early. the latter just to let them rest, but with the powerhead itself - if it was leaking current wouldn't the symptoms end immediately?

clamped sidefins of the honey gourami's signs of anything specific, ie electrocution? it's like they're afraid to use them and only use their tail to scoot around.


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## c_sking (Aug 4, 2008)

I have been zapped more times than I care to admit (one is really more than enough) A good jolt will make you sore for a good day or two. I have no idea what a fish goes through. Good luck.


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

I have a Koralia 1 in my 72 gal and my three Pearl Gouramis have no issues at all. In fact I find the 1 too little water movement and have a 2 coming (I got a used 3 from a friend and it WAS too much). Could it be that your Koralia is defective and has a current problem which may be electrifying the water?


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

I had read halfway through this thread earlier, then without refreshing filled in the Quick Reply and submitted. I see now others have suggested my possibility too.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

i'm open to the idea of some current leaking into my tank from the powerhead, but once it was totally removed from the water, wouldn't all symptoms stop?


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

welchrock said:


> i'm open to the idea of some current leaking into my tank from the powerhead, but once it was totally removed from the water, wouldn't all symptoms stop?


No. If your fish got shocked and damaged occurred it may take a while for them to get better. 

Just like if you get hit by lightning you aren't going to pop up and be cool right after the lightning stops going through you. There is going to be some damage.


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## MarioMaster (Jul 31, 2008)

welchrock said:


> i'm open to the idea of some current leaking into my tank from the powerhead, but once it was totally removed from the water, wouldn't all symptoms stop?


If you have a multimeter you could test to see if this was true or not - You could try putting it into a jug of water and then set the meter to AC volts and stick one probe in the water, the other into your house's ground wire and see if there's any current leaking


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

plakat said:


> No. If your fish got shocked and damaged occurred it may take a while for them to get better.
> 
> Just like if you get hit by lightning you aren't going to pop up and be cool right after the lightning stops going through you. There is going to be some damage.



if this were the case, wouldn't all fish be affected - and likely the smaller ones (corys & tetras) be the most affected? 

not making an argument out of it, just asking questions.


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

welchrock said:


> if this were the case, wouldn't all fish be affected - and likely the smaller ones (corys & tetras) be the most affected?
> 
> not making an argument out of it, just asking questions.


If they got shocked yes but you can't think of electricity the same way you would think of some chemical added to the water or an ammonia spike. Electricity finds the path of least resistance. Thats why you see one tree/person/building w/e being struck by lightning and not a giant area being nuked by electricity. 

The power head also might not have been constantly leaking current. It might have been sporadic or the gouramies might have gotten in the path of where the current was finding a way out.

I personally have been shocked enough to knock me on my butt while working on a fish tank with no harm to the fish at all and I am a big guy.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

I've put the powerhead in a super-small 1 quart bucket and have it running. Can't feel any current when I put my hand in, but I still haven't eliminated it as a cause.


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

welchrock said:


> I've put the powerhead in a super-small 1 quart bucket and have it running. Can't feel any current when I put my hand in, but I still haven't eliminated it as a cause.


Whoa. Not the best way to check for a short. 120V does not typically kill a person from a short, but it could (do not see if your hair dryer has a short by dropping it into you bath tub during a bath).

Whatever the cause in your tank it's probably time for one of these to be on the safe side:

http://tinyurl.com/5kdwde


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

welchrock said:


> I've put the powerhead in a super-small 1 quart bucket and have it running. Can't feel any current when I put my hand in, but I still haven't eliminated it as a cause.





rich815 said:


> Whoa. Not the best way to check for a short. 120V does not typically kill a person from a short, but it could (do not see if your hair dryer has a short by dropping it into you bath tub during a bath).
> 
> Whatever the cause in your tank it's probably time for one of these to be on the safe side:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/5kdwde



BZZZZZZZZZZZT! Don't check that way. I've been shocked by a powerhead, a ballast...a heater. NOT GOOD.

Call up Hydor, tell them you have a powerhead that might be leaking electricity. They should send you a new one.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

The fish wouldn't feel any electricity leakage because they are not grounded...

I have had fish in the past break glass heaters and they were never affected,but if I had stuck my hand in the water you can best believe that I would have been.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Update: the honey gouramis seem to be literally rotting. their fins are becoming white and frayed, and are falling apart...especially their pectoral fins. for my two cents, this is a sign of something other than stress. 

luckily the rest of my tank is 100% perfect...at least for now.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

lescarpentier said:


> The fish wouldn't feel any electricity leakage because they are not grounded...
> 
> I have had fish in the past break glass heaters and they were never affected,but if I had stuck my hand in the water you can best believe that I would have been.


http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/~aquacentre/aec/publications/electro.html

OP, check this link also, there are some symptoms that you might be able to see in your fish.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

epicfish said:


> http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/~aquacentre/aec/publications/electro.html
> 
> OP, check this link also, there are some symptoms that you might be able to see in your fish.


Thanks for the link,and I stand corrected,but I still don't understand why my fish were unaffected.It is because of this hazard that I don't place electrical devices in my tank.


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

lescarpentier said:


> Thanks for the link,and I stand corrected,but I still don't understand why my fish were unaffected.It is because of this hazard that I don't place electrical devices in my tank.


I think it's not a binary thing: you have a problem like a heater glass breaking and everything is 100% and immediately electrocuted. While it may have broken water still may not have gotten into an area to cause a problem. Or maybe somehow your tank is grounded or the heater grounded itself, or as was discussed, the electricity may not have "hit" any fish yet when you discovered it. The electrical current could have found another outlet, maybe some other object in your tank, and was grounding itself through that or the electrical current was flowing in that direction and you got lucky as no fish encountered it. Just like the original poster said some fish seem severely effected, others not so much or at all.

All that said I've always been so wary of a big long rod of glass with electrical coils and wires inside just waiting for the glass to break. It's why I switched t an inline heater.


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

lescarpentier said:


> Thanks for the link,and I stand corrected,but I still don't understand why my fish were unaffected.It is because of this hazard that I don't place electrical devices in my tank.


From what I understood most if not all electrical devices now are equipped with a switch that kills them when there is a short. If your Heater failed then the switch would have tripped and cut power to it. However if something is leaking power like what the OP might have the switch won't trip because its not a large enough short I guess you could call it.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Update: Honey gourami's are toast. 

One died about a week ago, the other 3 days ago. Still very perplexed on how 30 minutes of running a powerhead, one less powerful than my current filter, could negatively effect three fish (all of the same variety) so quickly and violently that it ultimately led to their deaths. 

One after 48 hours, one after 10 or so days, and the last one after about 2 weeks. Doesn't add up to me. :-(


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## robbob2112 (Oct 7, 2007)

Have you tried plugging your powerhead into a GFI outlet? Put it in a bucket of tank water and take it to the bathroom and plug it in (tank water so it has the same TDS and electrical charateristics of the water in your tank) ..... Water iteself doesn't conduct electricity... the ions from disolved minerals do... if it trips the GFI you know you have an electrical problem internal of it and your fish probably got shocked. It only takes a few milliamps to kill a person if taken across the heart... I assume it wouldn't take much to harm fish either.

Second, did you check the powerhead before putting it in that it didn't have any chemical residue from mfg? I would assume that would be an all or nothing with killing fish, but I suppose some are more hardy than others.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

ooo i like the GFI outlet idea; i'll have to try that one tonite and get back to the forum.

as for the chemical residue - that was a definite theory a few weeks back because i stupidly did not rinse it or run it in a bucket, but your thinking on this is the same as mine: if there was an issue it would have affected more than one type of fish.


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## kornphlake (Dec 4, 2007)

plakat said:


> From what I understood most if not all electrical devices now are equipped with a switch that kills them when there is a short. If your Heater failed then the switch would have tripped and cut power to it. However if something is leaking power like what the OP might have the switch won't trip because its not a large enough short I guess you could call it.


 
You're talking about one of two things, either a circuit breaker or a GFCI. A circuit breaker is required for all AC circuits, in older construction fuses are some times used instead of resettable breakers but the function is the same either way, a breaker will trip when the curent draw exceeds the rating of the circuit. For example you plug in your TV, stereo, vaccume cleaner, refrigerator and window AC on the same circuit. With all those devices on you'll be drawing more than the 15 or 20 amps the circuit is rated for so the breaker will trip and the lights will go off. A circuit breaker will not protect you from electrocution unless you touch a hot wire and more than 15 or 20 amps are passed through your body to ground long enough for the breaker to trip, I don't believe the human body will conduct electricity well enough to draw that much current and breakers don't react quickly enough to really protect you from shock, you'd be dead about the time the breaker switched off. Because there is no path to ground in an aquarium a breaker would never trip unless you installed a ground probe and filled the aquarium with something much more conductive than water. A breaker would protect you from a short, meaning the cord to your heater is old and attached to the wall with a bent over nail for some reason and you tugged on the cord which tore away the remaining insulation and allowed both conductors to come in contact with the nail. That would cause a circuit breaker to trip, the function of a circuit breaker isn't to prevent electrocution as much as it is intended to prevent your house from burning down.

A GFCI is not required in residential building except for in kitchens and bathrooms in newer homes or remodels along with anywhere an inspector feels is an area suceptible to moisture like outdoor recepticals or near a washing machine. Older construction is exempt from having GFCIs. The purpose of a GFCI is to sense current leakage, they respond to insignificant amounts of current loss in a fraction of a second. I don't believe I've seen a hair dryer without a GFCI attached to the cord for about 20 years, I've never seen one on a toaster though... Unless you have installed a GFCI where your aqarium equipment is connected, in most cases you are not protected from electrocution. 

I'm a little vague on how current leakage works in an aquarium because in theory there is no earth ground without adding a ground probe. I'm not sure that a defective power head would trigger a GFCI to trip, once you put your hand into the aquarium and complete the circuit to ground it should trip before you even feel a tingle, but without you there to put your hand in the water your fish could swim for hours in a sea of excited electrons. I'm not sure where those electrons would be going though with no path to ground. It's like dragging your feet on carpet on a dry day, you never realize you're carrying a static charge until you touch something grounded and release the charge.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

wow that's quite a lengthy response kornphlake, although i don't see how this relates to the thread. 

the only thing i can readily gain from your insight is that plugging the powerheard into my GFI outlet in my bathroom isn't going to tell me much. in the past, i ran it in a quart-sized bucket and felt nothing abnormal when i put my finger in the water.


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## kornphlake (Dec 4, 2007)

Sorry the point was you may have to stick your finger into the water when the powerhead is plugged into a GFCI in order to test for current leakage, if the GFCI responds you have current leakage. Sitting on the counter in a bowl of water there may not be enough of a path to ground for the GFCI to detect any current leakage, it would depend on the conductivity of the container, the counter top and anything else between the water and the ground.

I'm going to guess that your fish weren't electrocuted. It's more likely you stirred up a pocket of sulpher in the substrate and your gouramis were less tolerant to the poison than other fish.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

that's my leading theory too kornphlake, thanks for the clarification.

in your opinion, would a stirred-up pocket of sulfur lead to near-instant and severe fin-rot?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Arent Honey Gouramis Very finnicky?

I think so. 

OP how long had you had them before installing the pump? If it was a short time my money goes to the tank parameters and system not being to thier liking and the pump instillation timing being bad.

Total coincidence...


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

They had been in my tank for about 2-3 months prior to the installation of the powerhead.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Yup, I think it was just bad timing.



welchrock said:


> They had been in my tank for about 2-3 months prior to the installation of the powerhead.


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## vegasMatt (Sep 6, 2008)

By way of addendum, I would like to report my own sudden experience that is eerily similar to welchrock's:

20g long, medium planting (vals, bacopas, hairgrass), home to 6 harlequin rasboras, 5 otos, and 1 accidental guppy. Tank is nearly four months old, harleys and guppy have been in for three months, the otos for only two. All fish show good color and activity, and generally consistent behavior.

Very stable water chemistry, with hard Rocky Mountain water. Filter is an Eheim 2213, which I finally realized was not quite doing the job of good flow over the substrate, so I bought a small powerhead (Maxijet 400).

I rinsed and installed the powerhead on Monday night. My only observation at the time was that the otos were more active than usual. Not running scared active, but, yknow, active active.

Tuesday after work, I came home to find all six harleys on the substrate. Three were dead, the others gasping. The guppy was dead and floating. I filled my water-mixing bucket with dechlored tap, a heater and an airstone, netted the survivors, and watched them die over the next two hours. No obvious injury or discoloration, no thrashing or jerking, just "tired" attempts to stay upright, and gasping.

Otos! Otos were normal except for fin clamping. Jury is still out on them.

Water testing showed no ammonia, no nitrite, no change in pH. Last water change (~10%) was three days previous. No temperature change. We do not use aerosols, and had not been cleaning or kicking up household dust.

I performed a 50% water change with generous amounts of Amquel+. I tried to think of something else, but what?

My case is remarkably similar to welchrock's, and I can't bring any new theories to the table. The key difference for me, which should make my case even more unlikely, is that harleys are strong swimmers and should not have been bothered by the extra current like welchrock's gouramis may have been. And even if they were, they could have found a spot out of the powerhead's reach.

My gut tells me that either I didn't sufficiently rinse the powerhead before putting it in the tank, or that it stirred up a lethal pocket of something from the substrate. That something either dissipated before I could test (ammonia), or it was untestable (sulphur).

But it was no coincidence. One fish death would be coincidence. Seven is something programmatic. Hope this account helps.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

VegasMatt:

I feel for ya! Very similar circumstances indeed...I hope your remaining fish recover quickly. Mine died a very slow death that looked like finrot, but was so fast that I really think that they might have been electrocuted. Skin and flesh material was just falling off their bodies until they became nothing more than floating torsos. Not a good way to go.

I forget exactly how many I lost but it was at least a month until my tank got back to normal.

I sold my powerhead and never heard anything negative back, so if there was an electrical problem it was short-lived. Who knows.

Stinks that we both lost so many fish in an attempt to actually improve the health and cleanliness of our tanks.


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

For some reason this thread has been at the back of my mind since Welchrock first posted the problems he was having. From time to to I ponder what might have caused this because I use a lot of power heads in of my tanks. I have 4 in my 90 and three in my 25. I've never had a single problem but maybe VegasMatt has hit upon something being stirred up in the substrate. 

Sorry to hear about both of your problems.....


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

I think our issues stand as a great example of 'if it's not broke don't fix it'. I was 85% happy with my water clarity and circulation, wasted $30 on a filter that cost me an additional $20 worth of fish and a few weeks of frustration.

Oh well, live and learn.


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## vegasMatt (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks folks.

One day after the disaster, and the otos are still clamped but hanging in there. I changed some more water and added fresh purigen.

I also performed a poor man's shock test with the powerhead, a bucket of water, my hand, and the GFCI outlet in my kitchen. Results were negative, but it's not exactly Menlo Park here.

Probably chemical in my case. But I agree, welchrock, changing our little environments can be, well, unpredictable. No good deed...


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

how are the fish today?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

vegasMatt said:


> ... I performed a 50% water change with generous amounts of Amquel+. I tried to think of something else, but what? ...


From: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html
"All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NCl3), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Some dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia."

I tried Amquel+ years ago and I didn't like it. I, like you added to much and it killed some fish. I have been using Prime every since w/o problems. 

"Prime™ also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process."

There are a few Prime questions on Seachem's Support Forum that may be helpful. http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/index.php


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