# Bacter 100 and BGA



## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

I have bacter 100 but I never tried this. Wouldn't you agree to find out the root cause of your algae would be more efficient? Regards, JC.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Sounds like Bull to me.
I think the notion is based on cycling of a tank.
But there's no evidence to suggest microbial organisms will retard BGA.

If BGA is your issue, manual removal is rather simple and adding the ferts directly on the BGA can also cause it to die as well.

The claim is meaningless, but may increase sales 
They offer no support, no evidence of any sort, no references, nor can I find any and none comes to mind.

Given such claims and given some folks have used it, and given I've been able to show likely causation for BGA outbreaks, I see no basis to believe them, I've used it but I always whince when anyone claims their product will cure an algae issue.

You should as well.

It has no impact on flora/fauna, nor will have any significant impact on cycling if you do common sense things when planting: like doing enough water changes, adding enough plants from the start, maintaining good nutrient/CO2 levels thereafter.

You also need to realize that plant roots already have lots of microganisms on them when you plant them. You can also use a filter sponge etc from another tank, some dirty mulm from an establisghed tank, add a filter to a mature tank prior and other basic common sense things that will cycle a tank much faster than any dried critters in a bottle will.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

I've always trusted ADA. ADA is directly run by Takashi Amano is it not? Is Takashi Amano lying to the general public? I think something is up here. Either Mr. Amano is not in charge of writing that, or he has been consumed by telling lies for money. Or maybe he was not a good person from the beginning and this is all just a business.

Or maybe this is true? I can't really believe Mr. Amano telling a lie, but he might not be in charge of everything and maybe from his experiences, sprinkling this on BGA actually DOES work.

Of course I trust you Tom Barr as well, and respect what you are saying very well. Its just like the top two people of planted tanks IMO and its hard.

So why do you think that ADA would put a false claim. I have the gut feeling it actually works until proven wrong, and I will no longer respect ADA as much as before. ADA, Seachem, and Hikari are the only brands I respect, and I love ADA. Just hard to believe, unless I've heard other claims ADA has given that are false.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

I agree with actioncia and multiple instances of Tom Barr's sage advice, it is always better to find the root of the cause that just treat the problem.

The post original intention was to ask the question does it work and if so why and how. 

One of the original reasons I posted this question was a battle with BGA in a non-Co2 nano. I got the ferts under control, manually removed as much as possible and stopped the spread. But, there were always a couple stubborn spots in the hairgrass that I couldn’t get. 

As I sit here in front of my ADA nano, I must say that Amano's system works well and is very aesthetically pleasing. I too have trusted ADA to some degree, but also hold a mild skepticism. This skepticism is due in part to Penac (edit : I meant the Plocher system) and the presence of mild translation problems throughout ADA literature. 

I am extremely pleased that Tom Barr weighed in on the issue and agree that cycling is extremely important. “dried critters in a bottle” kinda puts the product in perspective.

If any one has any perspectives on this product feel free to chime in. Understanding is always good as it can only increase our aquascaping prowess


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

sandiegoryu said:


> I've always trusted ADA. ADA is directly run by Takashi Amano is it not? Is Takashi Amano lying to the general public? I think something is up here. Either Mr. Amano is not in charge of writing that, or he has been consumed by telling lies for money. Or maybe he was not a good person from the beginning and this is all just a business.
> 
> Or maybe this is true? I can't really believe Mr. Amano telling a lie, but he might not be in charge of everything and maybe from his experiences, sprinkling this on BGA actually DOES work.
> 
> ...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

sandiegoryu said:


> So why do you think that ADA would put a false claim. I have the gut feeling it actually works until proven wrong, and I will no longer respect ADA as much as before. ADA, Seachem, and Hikari are the only brands I respect, and I love ADA. Just hard to believe, unless I've heard other claims ADA has given that are false.


I love SeaChem also, but I'm not buying their PO4, their Alkaline buffer, their Equilibrium, Nitrogen etc.

It should certainly be the other way around if you think logically, it has to be *proven right and supported for each item in the system, not just one or two.*

And that's the point I've been trying to get hobbyists to realize, but they act like I'm not playing fair or something.

I'm asking you think about this, test it and see. Not blindly accept what ever is served. Riding the past laurals or one product does niot mean in any way that everything else they make works wonderfully.

I cannot believe so many people actually assume that.
It's dang scary that you do.

Conformity whether it's in science, in politics, in the school, in this hobby is not a good thing. Learn that way and know what you have done, you have considered the issues in the test, in the results, in the process, in ruling other factors out, in developing your own style etc. 
You have far more to gain and less $ to lose.

Dupla once claimed that heating cables where great.
Some use to claim PO4 excess causes algae.
Same deal with excess Fe, and NO3, even K+ by some.

I got poo pooed then, I question and I find that I get a lot closer to the truth(I never say I attain it) in doing that process. The results have spoken for themselves over the years. 

today few consider the cable theory valid, certainly the PO4 = algae thing has been crucified properly and buried. Excess nutrients in general, CO2 issues, light issue, sand, flow rates through sediments, dang near every algal inducement and bioindicator test and advance has been done by me personally with no outside help other than Steve Dixon about 10 years ago with BBA.

Amano has not helped folks with Alage near as I can tell.
"Use my products and you will not have any", same thing Dupla use to say:thumbsdow 
It's a subject I know a lot about and did my grad work at UF on in a freshwater planted spring ecosystem.

I just wish folks would question things more, ask more questions about it and not accept things so blindly. Set up a test to see if it works.
discuss those results openly.
Many are so willing to question me yet that same skepticism is tossed out the window when ADA sneezes.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Yzmxer99 said:


> The post original intention was to ask the question does it work and if so why and how.
> 
> One of the original reasons I posted this question was a battle with BGA in a non-Co2 nano. I got the ferts under control, manually removed as much as possible and stopped the spread. But, there were always a couple stubborn spots in the hairgrass that I couldn’t get.


How old is the tank?
Do you do water changes?
Fish load?
I think that it's likely due to cycling issue due to the ADA AS.
If you dose a little macros once a week, just a tad, lower the light a bit, it'll go away.

Lower O2 levels than normal(which means the growth is slowing down some) often trigger a number of BGA outbreaks.

Good ferts, good stable conditions, no water changes etc help.
Run some Purigen in the filter etc if this does not work much.

The other thing you can do is use a kent pro scraper or a large tooth comb to brush the hair grass and get it all, fluffing rhe grass good each week etc, every few days etc.
Harass it. Add some Excel.
Etc

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sfcallen (Dec 13, 2006)

plantbrain said:


> sandiegoryu said:
> 
> 
> > I can say Hydrillia pills cure cancer and improve male virility.
> ...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I have a trace mix that will be a secret and do somethings, over time, no other trace made will.

I'm working with a nutrition researcher at UC Davis, but at least there's some basis to it and I can say a little bit about it without giving away some interesting aspects.

But I'm not going to say it does "this" and not support it either.
Dupla and ADA and other companies play this word game without really saying much about what is really going on.

I know what is required to do good algae test and what the problem with such test are. That knowledge is a lot more powerful and produces a lot more questions about things when a company comes along and says things or individuals etc.

Life would be nice and peachy if things where so simple as that excess PO4 = algae and therefore all we need to do is control PO4 in our water column.

Algae is much more complex than that, it's naive to simplify it. 
It does not mean all is known though either.........but it's one step closer to the truth, which is sort of an evolution towards a more evolved answer to why algae is here and sometimes not.

That is a far more interesting question, teaches far more than blind acceptance and allows more flexibility in management and methods as well as brands.

People often say they want choices, they want to learn, they want a better understanding, they want easier management.

They they balk when you offer and suggest it to them
Funny how that works.

Set up a test to see, first you need to be able to induce and culture BGA.
Not one person besides myself to date has ever offered a culture method for the BGA we have in our tanks. A few Germans have done some identification work by taking the samples to a lab etc. They came up with the same species/genus as I have.

Once you learn how to culture effectively, now you are ready to test various treatments.

You also have a good working model to understand causation, (at least one method that seems to work well, there may be other ways!!) since you can now induce the algae/Cyano etc.

Few aquarist want to induce algae in their scapes.
Those that have it, seldom... if ever, have enough to control to set up a test to begin with.

If you have newly induce algae bloom, then the treatment against it is a fair time in the alga's life stage and health, it provides a worst case for whatever treatment you plan.

If the treatment can stop new growth, then you have any pest algae beaten.
Stopping new growth is the key while providing good nutrients for the plants.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Thanks Tom Barr. Not all things can be trusted, and can only be trusted until you see it proven right and supported, correct?

Thanks for that lecture, well at least I saw it as one, and it will stick with me. I guess you cannot trust a whole system, but only that one product. I personally have no knowledge of Penac.

I have always thought that companies would stretch the truth to sell something, yet ADA is a company that I thought was so serious at the hobby of aquascaping, that they would not lie at all. From what I have heard from you Tom Barr, it seems all companies will stretch the truth to sell something.

Perfection will never be attained, but should always be pursued. I wish companies would do that.

And I apologize Yzmxer99 for stealing your thread.

I'm still getting this all processed in my head.


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## Bosch (May 28, 2012)

*How Can I make my own substrate?*

Thanks for the post. The Adana solutions are expensive. How can I make my own. I'm creating a new tank now.

1. Lava / Pumice
2. Peat
3. Some (not much) clay

?? - what simple ingredients will do 80% or better of the expensive pre-mixes.

Also, I would assume that all of these have a life-cycle, ie, they wear out over time.

Thanks

B


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