# Red Plants - what is the magic potion?



## Dannyul (Jun 3, 2013)

Hello all! 

This thread is going to be related to *red plants and how to maintain their vibrant colours* without them turning dirty red, brown or in advanced cases - green!

The question is: what keeps red plants red, and why do some red plants start to turn a different colour (i.e. brown or green)?

*SORRY FOR ROTATION ISSUES WITH PICTURES. Tilt your head to the left a bit *

Here's a picture of a supposedly red plant: 








Now you're probably thinking _*that is a red plant, what are you talking about?*_ Yes, you're right but its not a vibrant red - it's more of a brown.. take a closer look. 

Okay now here's a comparison between a professional set-up with the plant *Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'* with the same plant in my planted tank: 

*My Planted Tank*








*Professional Planted Tank*








*Now, can you see the difference?* 

Which brings me back to my question about these red plants in my tank. What is making them lose their colour when I dose using the *EI method* where excess nutrients including trace elements are available - purchased from The Nutrient Company/FluidSensor. 

*WATER PARAMETERS*

NO3 = >120ppm 
PO4 = ~2.5ppm
KH = 4
GH = 9 
pH = 6.5-7.0 (slight fluctuations)
CO2 = The drop checker is lime green so ~30ppm. 

*LIGHTING*
I have been told that lights do not play a role in the redness of plants as plants adapt to different lights. But anyway, my lights are the JUWEL HIGH-LITE TUBES - one 45W DAY and one 45W NATURE. 

These lights are T5HO and are longer than original T5 tubes. Please see this link for more info regarding these lights, including spectra http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/Products/More/Lighting/ 

I do not have reflectors. 

*I just want my plants to be red!* - Help me please  
Dan


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## Marty (Jul 18, 2013)

howdy,

I'm crossing over here from another hobby, for now just roaming around and doing some research before I start a planted tank myself. In the vivarium hobby we have the same problem. People buy bromeliads that are amazingly colored and after a while they turn green. Problem is with light intensity, if you're don't give them enough light the plant will either turn green or die. I could be wrong but the same case is probably with brightly colored aquatic plants.


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## mr.bigglesworth (Jul 6, 2012)

Iron plays a big role in bringing out the reds.


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

You can refer to this old thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=89186

Not a new question by far


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## Lornek8 (Jul 3, 2013)

A big part of the coloration in the pro picture you posted is the lighting. Not in regards to intensity that the plant is grown under but rather the lighting the picture was taken under. Take a look at the rocks and you can see the red undertone, similarly the greens aren't really green and the overall brightness is rather low. Your tank in comparison looks really cool/bluish, 7k/10k lighting or something in that range. Put a color enhancing bulb over your tank and I think you'll see a big difference.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

My vote is light.


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

Green = chlorophyl production. The less green a leaf has in it, the lower the amount of chlorophyl it can produce. (in general) This is why most red plants are high light loving species. Either they aren't getting enough light and must transition to have their leaves produce more chlorophyl (turn green) or their production isn't efficient enough to use the amount of light they're getting (nutrient or Co2 deficiency)

Point is, for these species, something is being a limiting factor for red coloration. (not growth, mind. Coloration.)

Increase / dial in Co2 first. Make sure you're using good reference solution in your checker. (you can easily make your own 4dkh solution) If the Co2 is good and consistent, look to nonlimited nutrients, though I suspect light before nutrients for this issue.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Hi,

Light must be intense that is sure.

I did grow red ludwigia repens under high light and no iron fertilisation.

Michel.


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## concepts88 (Oct 4, 2012)

You need high light


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

unfair to show off pics of the bottom of those leaves.  They'll always be pink / purple unless the plant is really shaded or unhealthy. I think this thread is about plants that are red from the top of the leaf (R. Macrandra, etc)


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

concepts88 said:


> You need high light[][/]


Is that the aromatica? Do you dose alot of iron or just regular EI?


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

check page 6 of my journal of my 75 in my sig. Aromatica colored up and Glandulosa as red as can be. This is under a standard 4 bulb T5 setup (crappy off brand bulbs), MTS substrate combined with cut-down version of EI, and good Co2 generation. Nothing fancy going on, but the reds popped for me. I think the same plant being more red in one person's tank vs another's has been for a while and will be for a while one of the hardest things to pin down. Good Co2 first, make absolutely sure you have nonlimiting nutrients second, then deal with light.

*edit, I will say that Macrandra didn't color up as much for me as in other tanks I've seen, but I only gave it a couple weeks to prove itself and got impatient lol


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## concepts88 (Oct 4, 2012)

The pro photo has post processing done to it also and it was probably shot in a vivid setting on the camera. I do not believe it is how it came out of the camera.


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

I have two examples

1. Sunset hygro, leaves turn a pinkish hue with higher light. I had some in a 40 breeder with 2 T5NO bubls on the tank, run for 6-8 hours, MCOPM capped with blasting grit-- no other ferts ever. 
--Did a big trim and put them in the barrel pond on my deck, gets at least 6 hours of direct sunlight probably closer to 10, MGOPM capped with blasting grit, no other ferts ever. 2 days later the leaves closer to the top were a dark vibrant pink almost red-purple in color.

2. I have red ludwigia (I think) in my 75, main lighting is three 20watt cfl bulbs in silver dome reflectors. With only three I have to move the luights around to get good intensity to all my plants. Since red Lud doesn't get all stupid looking under low light I often ignore this section of the tank. After a week or so of no direct light the leaves start to to turn green. MGOPM and MTS (iron rich clay) capped with blasting grit, dose micros 1x a week.
--Move the light directly over the plant and by the end of the day it has a decent amount of red, 2nd day nice red, third day very red.

You might need iron to make a plant turn red, but iron won't turn a plant red, light will.


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## Dannyul (Jun 3, 2013)

I have been researching and apparently trimming the red plants can actually promote their red colours. Also, lights that enhance the reds of the plants also make the tank visually pleasing as plants adapt to light. 

Therefore, I'm changing one of the tubes that enhances red colours and will start trimming the red plants on a bi-weekly basis. 

Thanks!


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

> trimming the red plants can actually promote their red colours.


that's because the newest growth will always be the reddest. In anything less than ideal conditions, the older leaves will turn greener to absorb more light. If you trim often, you'll see new growth more than old.


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## Dannyul (Jun 3, 2013)

Well, I must definitely start trimming the foreground plants more often!


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

If you have very high light but still are having trouble, try increasing your co2 and flow. Right now, I think that might be working for me.


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## Aquaticz (Dec 26, 2009)

starve them of N 


Regards,
Aquaticz


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## Dannyul (Jun 3, 2013)

Aquaticz said:


> starve them of N
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Aquaticz


Whilst EI Dosing? That's not good!


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

that's an old idea that's been disproven many times. You need look no further than Tom Barr's pictures to see ridiculous reds in plenty of N


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

the main thing i notice with red plants is light. the more light the more red


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## UDGags (Sep 13, 2009)

It really depends on the plant


High Light-125+ PAR
Iron-2-4ppm
Starving of N will bring out red in certain species like aromotica (w/excess phosphate). Lots of professionals use this trick to get the purple tones in it.
Proper trimming. Rotala 'Mini' Butterfly is a good example of this
 Photoshop


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

UDGags said:


> It really depends on the plant
> 
> 
> High Light-125+ PAR
> ...



125+ PAR? Ive heard 80 to 100 PAR is high light, anything above and its a waste. On top of that the light temps matter too.


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## UDGags (Sep 13, 2009)

samee said:


> 125+ PAR? Ive heard 80 to 100 PAR is high light, anything above and its a waste. On top of that the light temps matter too.


80-100 is high light...I guess my point is people go higher have the results to show for it. I know Tom Barr's dutch like aquarium was at 125 PAR, my aquarium is at 125 PAR and both have nice colors. Dutch aquariums traditionally use banks of light, which will produce very high PAR. You can get great colors at 80-100 but if you're struggling maybe that extra 20-40 will get you there.

As far as wasting light it really depends on your CO2 and the species of plants. If you have excess light than odds are you have algae.

Temps matter but are hard to prove if you're talking the difference between 6k, 10k, a special blue, purple or red bulb. They might look different to the human eye since we see green spectrum the best but can you tell a difference in plant health? Obviously, if you have a red bulb more of the red color is going to be reflected from a red plant. I just think with all the other variables trying to distinguish plant health of good or bad would be very tough with only temps.


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## Sgtreef (Jun 6, 2004)

concepts88 said:


> You need high light
> View attachment 177257


What is the Plant and how much light are you running?
A chiller needed?
I have one on my 75 and looks that I will need one for the 125 also.:icon_wink
Just started using some DIY 6500 K LED's, over the 125.
But my other 4 bulbs are 95 watt VHO 10,000 K

Jeff


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## thinBear (Dec 16, 2011)

in my setup, I can only get the desire red when it reach surface. It appears that it need a lot CO2 and light. (high tech. setup) I'm not sure my CO2 ppm, DC (4dkH) appears lime green by the end of the day and pH 6.8->6.2 in kH2 tank water. 2x20W CFL 2' above substrate 1' above water.















But then I have seen vibrant red in low tech tanks too, both on internet and Aqua Forest plant storage tank.


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## Aquaticz (Dec 26, 2009)

Dannyul said:


> Whilst EI Dosing? That's not good!


There's a guy used to know his name was John Cottie. I maybe spelling his last name incorrectly. Quite a few people in Los Angeles know of him. He supplies Nature Aquarium with the reddest of red plants. Frankly unbelievable. I was over at his house few times And always ask how he got his red plants so red. One day he told me to starve them of N. 

Personally I have given up on red plants. I did so sometime ago Because the only thing that I could get was blue-green algae. Get John swears by it And has many more years In this hobby.

I Have not seen them on any boards in over a year. I heard that he moved to NYC, he Is also a professional photographer


Regards,
Aquaticz


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

UDGags said:


> 80-100 is high light...I guess my point is people go higher have the results to show for it. I know Tom Barr's dutch like aquarium was at 125 PAR, my aquarium is at 125 PAR and both have nice colors. Dutch aquariums traditionally use banks of light, which will produce very high PAR. You can get great colors at 80-100 but if you're struggling maybe that extra 20-40 will get you there.
> 
> As far as wasting light it really depends on your CO2 and the species of plants. If you have excess light than odds are you have algae.
> 
> Temps matter but are hard to prove if you're talking the difference between 6k, 10k, a special blue, purple or red bulb. They might look different to the human eye since we see green spectrum the best but can you tell a difference in plant health? Obviously, if you have a red bulb more of the red color is going to be reflected from a red plant. I just think with all the other variables trying to distinguish plant health of good or bad would be very tough with only temps.


hm, I meant to say theres only so much light the plants will absorb, the rest does not get used. But I dont have much knowledge in this.

It seems though that Ill be in this game soon. Currently I have T8s and you can check my plant journal, the colours. Soon Ill be getting leds from buildmyled. The PAR Ill be getting at substrate should be over 100. The only thing is to keep up with my EI dosing.


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

samee said:


> 125+ PAR? Ive heard 80 to 100 PAR is high light, anything above and its a waste. On top of that the light temps matter too.


Not really a waste if the light fixture is good and you can avoid hanging it. If not, then you can always raise it a few inches.


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

I also think its the light. 

My plants shows more vibrant red colors as they grow near towards the surface. But, of course other factors need also to be in balance like ferts and co2.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

concepts88 said:


> the pro photo has post processing done to it also and it was probably shot in a vivid setting on the camera. I do not believe it is how it came out of the camera.


+100


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

This is a question old as dirt.

Focus on growing the plants well, stop focusing on specific plants or colors.

If you see weird colors that you have never seen in person, likely some freaky post processing that got a bit too far away from the poster.

Darker shadows/very dark looking tanks= they reduced the snot out of the gamma or something, which brings out the reds, but reduces the contrast and the colors in other areas. You can often download the image, then run it trough backwards the post processing and curiously end up with a pic of many folks that do not use the post processing.

Never judge an on line pic as REALITY. 
I have focused strongly on growth only.

This, more than any other factor will yield the most consistent color and health. Some species vary little in color also, so stick with those if you must have a red color.

Bulbs also reflect the reds better than others, so the bulbs do not produce better reds, but the appearance is more red. Eg, adding 2 Red Sun URI's to a tank with 4 bulbs and then saying look how red my plants look is almost like adding red paint.

It'll wash out most of the colors except red.

But I like green plants also, so that's not a good solution, and many fail to include that when discussing red colors and examples.


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

This is still my fav. thread on this forum:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26213

I checked out this thread long before I was even a member on this forum. Ever since this thread, Ive tried to reach a goal of making my aromatica like Tom's. Its been a year and Ive been learning alot, but I think itl be a while before I can make it change colours.

In the thread Tom also disproves theories put out most commonly. 

Darn, the last post on the first page is not working, I think it was a photo edited pic of the guys aromatica that was BLOOD RED!!! I just love the colours of all the aromatica posted in that thread.

After google search I found it, a lot smaller than the original:


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## Dannyul (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for the responses guys. Will continue to dose as per, whilst trimming the red plants. Also I might try another bulb that brings out red colours to see if that helps


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i know some red plants need the ferts. i personally dont use ferts or co2. here is a red melon sword and even some common horn wort that have nice color from just light

this baby red melon was pulled off the mom plant and let float for 2 days in my 55 before i moved and planted it in a 10 gal. i use a shop light from walmart with 2 ge dayligh bulbs on the 55 and 2 ge daylight cfl bulbs on the 10 gal i think they are 10 w each on the 10 gal not sure of the 55 shop light


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## valsfreak (Apr 14, 2008)

high light is definitely a contributor to the reds becomin more vibrant in an aquarium. i usually run 5-7wpg on all my planted tanks. even duckweed will turn a red/purple with a strong light source


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

samee said:


> This is still my fav. thread on this forum:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26213
> 
> ...


I caught that pic and then back processed it, suddenly it looked curiously like everyone else's L aromatica. I can use Hue, and other simple photoshop or similar software to jazz up colors also.










A little back processing:









See? I can use photoshop also to impress newbies on my red colored plants also. Magenta is NOT a normal color, so that's a dead giveaway.
Some serious Photoshopping was done in many contest. Some is obvious, others are not so much. 

Coralife T5 colormax, URI red sun, some other plant bulbs when mixed with some blues or white bulbs give a good combo of mixtures. Some newer LED's do okay also.

I think most would be best off to focus on growing all plants, not worrying about algae so much or some special dosing scheme. I have been around the block on this many times with a new batch of hobbyists about every 2-4 years on this topic going back at least 15 years now. I do not lie to hobbyists about this stuff. I have no reason to.


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## Dannyul (Jun 3, 2013)

Tom, thank you ever so much for your input and I can truly see the difference between The photoshop version and the normal version. You're right, I seem to see the photoshopped version plastered all over plant websites and it is not the case. 

It seems that my red plants are a good red now I've started getting into EI dosing. 

Thanks,
Dan


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## concepts88 (Oct 4, 2012)

People who are photographers or are photo hobbyist can always tell when there is post processing done on a shot. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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