# RO Water System



## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

I use 100% RO water in all my tanks. At first the need was not that great, I would swap out six 5 gallon jugs at the LFS to do water changes for 3 tanks. Soon I was filling jugs in the spare bathroom tub to keep up with the need as my tank count grew. This worked with a few tanks but one day I turned around and had 12. I needed a way to filter, store, and distribute at least 200 gallons of RO water per week, my Discus tank alone uses over 100 gallons throughout the week. My original post was lost due to a hacker so I am rebuilding the post, my system has evolved anyway and the post needed updated. Many thanks to RMC for helping me design and build this system.

Let’s start off with the water filtration.

I use a RO unit I purchased at Premium Aquatics which is a local online reef retailer. It is a 3 stage 50 GPD unit mounted on the wall.










Input water to the RO unit comes from the output of the water softener. A PVC T was installed inline with a ball valve to turn the input water off when needed.










Since I turn the water off when needed, a flush valve was installed to prevent build up on the membrane. I flush the membrane for a few minutes each time I turn the input water on to keep the TDS down. This unit works very well, just need to turn the blue knob up to flush and sideways to make RO water.










The water exits the RO unit and enters a 55 gallon storage barrel here.










When the barrel is full a float valve actuates. This float valve in mounted towards the top of the barrel.










When the float actuates, it applies back pressure to a solenoid which shuts off the feed water.










Now that we have made the RO water, time to store it.

Initially, I used one 55 gallon drum to store my water. It has become necessary to store more water so I know have two 55 gallon drums.










To get water from one drum to the other, I use a siphon tube that looks like this.










The siphon tube goes from one drum to the other.










The T is to get the siphon started. Once the drum on the left is full, all the air is sucked out through the black tube with the check valve. The drums should stay even with their water levels as the drums fill and empty.










If the siphon breaks, the left drum that has the RO unit input line also has the shutoff float, so the water will shut off when the left drum fills. The siphon tubes extend into the drum past the pickup for the pump so theoretically the siphon will never break. (You can see the siphon tube in this picture on the right.)










Now the barrels are full of RO water, time to distribute it.

The water is pumped with a Mag-5 pump.










The pump sits in the bottom of the left barrel.










I also have a power head that is on a timer periodically churning the water to keep it from going stagnant.










The water comes out of the barrel to a distribution manifold. 










At first, the water came out through a single pipe. Since I do water changes throughout the house, I had a long hose attached to it. This was impractical to use in my fish room, which is the same room the water barrels are in. I made another water changer that is better suited for my breeders. Instead of disconnecting/reconnecting the 2 water changers, I have them permanently mounted on their own leg of the manifold. On the left (yellow hose) is the water changer for the show tanks. On the right (green hose) is the water changer for the fish room.










The water changers are different sizes (1” and ½”) and have different length tubes that fit the tanks better. I had to take the tops off tanks in the fish room so the 1” water changer would fit in. It was also so long that it tore up the substrate on every tank in the fish room.

Here is a picture of the 1” water changer.










Here is a picture of the ½” water changer.










Both water changers have a fill and drain line attached; they work identical, I will illustrate with the 1” water changer on my Discus tank.

The water changer is placed in the tank (notice the position of the ball valves).










The ball valve on the left (drain) is opened and the tank drains until the level drops below the strainer and the siphon breaks.










The ball valve on the left is closed, the one on the right is opened and the tank fills.










Let me know if there are any questions, I left anything out or did not explain anything thoroughly and I will update the post.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

That is an awsome system you have there. Especailly how you made the Water changer:hihi: .

but why dont we ever see you pictures of your tanks?

- Andrew


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## Khandurian (Oct 25, 2006)

Do you have your water barrel's lifted off the ground? It's kinda hard to tell but it does look like you do.

Nice little setup you got there. That took some thinking. I read according to what you posted is that you have the RO unit being feed from a water softener.

I am curious as to ammonia/chloramine before and after the RO unit. Is this feed from a well or city water?


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

Couple of things.

Your feeding your RO with water softened by a sodium swap water softener? Is this better then water direct from the tap?

Your putting two things onto the float valve. The waste water shut off and the overflow protection. If the float valve malfunctions then you have two problems.

In my system I am using a set timer to fill the storage container. I also use a float valve to back this up. My timer is set and controls a solenoid before the RO unit all together so it is overflow protection and waste water shut off. And if either one breaks I am still in the clear.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> That is an awsome system you have there. Especailly how you made the Water changer:hihi: .
> 
> but why dont we ever see you pictures of your tanks?
> 
> - Andrew


Thanks. I have pics of my tanks all over this forum, do a search by user name. Here are a few, I do not take good pictures (all of these have been rescaped already, I rescape a lot):









110 Gallon








55 Gallon








46 Gallon








37 Gallon








29 Gallon








20 Gallon


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Khandurian said:


> Do you have your water barrel's lifted off the ground? It's kinda hard to tell but it does look like you do.
> 
> Nice little setup you got there. That took some thinking. I read according to what you posted is that you have the RO unit being feed from a water softener.
> 
> I am curious as to ammonia/chloramine before and after the RO unit. Is this feed from a well or city water?


The barrels are sitting on pressure treated 2x4s, they will sweat if not off the ground. If they sweat you will get mold and mildew. I use city water ammonia is 0, PH is 7, TDS is 10 out of the barrel......DC


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Brilliant said:


> Couple of things.
> 
> Your feeding your RO with water softened by a sodium swap water softener? Is this better then water direct from the tap?


I think it is, but I am not a water chemist.


Brilliant said:


> Your putting two things onto the float valve. The waste water shut off and the overflow protection. If the float valve malfunctions then you have two problems.


The float/solenoid is installed as designed by Kent Marine. The float has a positive shut-off like a toilet float. The solenoid is pressure actuated. They work together and are pretty redundant already. This system has been running for almost a year, no problems.


Brilliant said:


> In my system I am using a set timer to fill the storage container. I also use a float valve to back this up. My timer is set and controls a solenoid before the RO unit all together so it is overflow protection and waste water shut off. And if either one breaks I am still in the clear.


Kent designed redundancy into their system, I do not have any power connected to the fill system, just the pump/powerhead. I did consider heating the water but decided not too for several reasons......DC


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

DiabloCanine said:


> Kent designed redundancy into their system


I really do admire your work. This is just constructive criticism. I was going to ask what happens when the float valve sticks, where is the redundancy? I am adding calcium, magnesium & baking soda directly into my storage container. I was afraid of buildups and imagined a float valve malfunctioning.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

ohh stupid me I've seen some of those pics around......

oh, why not heat your water? 

thanks

- Andrew

(shrimp are doing great BTW)


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Brilliant said:


> I really do admire your work. This is just constructive criticism. I was going to ask what happens when the float valve sticks, where is the redundancy? I am adding calcium, magnesium & baking soda directly into my storage container. I was afraid of buildups and imagined a float valve malfunctioning.[/QUOTE0]
> I have messed around with this float quite a bit to make sure it would not flood my fish room. I do not see how it could fail, it is all mechanical and no way to clog, all the moving parts are plastic and out of the water. Were you thinking something could get stuck in the moving pieces? Or deposits? I am pretty confident failure is remote. Here is a good pic of the system......DC
> http://www.kentmarine.com/instructions/fvkit.pdf


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> ohh stupid me I've seen some of those pics around......
> 
> oh, why not heat your water?
> 
> ...


Waste of electricity. The largest water change I do is 55 gallons on the 110 gallon Discus tank (over 130 gallons with sump). The tank temp only drops a few degrees and the two 400 watt heaters bring it back up quick. I would also be concerned about nasties growing in the barrels. I am thinking about dropping ferts in the barrels, would make dosing a lot easier, but would it propogate nasties?......DC


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

DiabloCanine;330543Were you thinking something could get stuck in the moving pieces? Or deposits? I am pretty confident failure is remote. Here is a good pic of the system......DC
[url said:


> http://www.kentmarine.com/instructions/fvkit.pdf[/url]


Yeah mineral buildup or something causing the float to fail. I think the only place it could fail is in my imagination. :hihi: 
This is a great method for solving my water as needed issue with the inflexible timer situation. I was going to use a float switch to tell my system to turn off and this the the reason I didnt.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Brilliant said:


> Yeah mineral buildup or something causing the float to fail. I think the only place it could fail is in my imagination. :hihi:
> This is a great method for solving my water as needed issue with the inflexible timer situation. I was going to use a float switch to tell my system to turn off and this the the reason I didnt.


Believe me, I monkeyed with this float several times to ensure it would not fail. It was recommended to me by several local reefers. It is a PITA to get the air out of the system, but that only needs done once......DC


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hey DC,

I've ordered a RO unit and I am waiting for it to arrived. One thing I am really not understanding is the Flush setup. What You have setup is similar to other pix/explanations that I have seen, but--I'm just not getting it! I'm missing something, so Can You offer a breakdown of how its put together? From what I am seeing it just looks like a ball-valve with a route around it. I'm not getting how it gets to/flushes the membrane. In the pic that you have above, I cannot see the "Loop" around the ball-valve, but in at least one other setup--it was just that: A loop around the ball-valve. I'm just not getting it! :hihi: 

TIA


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Naja002 said:


> Hey DC,
> 
> I've ordered a RO unit and I am waiting for it to arrived. One thing I am really not understanding is the Flush setup. What You have setup is similar to other pix/explanations that I have seen, but--I'm just not getting it! I'm missing something, so Can You offer a breakdown of how its put together? From what I am seeing it just looks like a ball-valve with a route around it. I'm not getting how it gets to/flushes the membrane. In the pic that you have above, I cannot see the "Loop" around the ball-valve, but in at least one other setup--it was just that: A loop around the ball-valve. I'm just not getting it! :hihi:
> 
> TIA


Here, have at, I still don't get it but it works. I stared at for a few days before I could connect it. The key is the location of the restrictor....DC
http://www.spectrapure.com/manuals/FVK.pdf


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Ok, I got it now. Thanx! On page2 it shows the "Flow-Restrictor" (A) in the "loop". By closing the valve the flow is forced to go passed the Flow-Restrictor and is processed normally. By opening the valve the water is allowed to circumvent the Flow-Restrictor and flush the membrane. I'm assuming the unrestricted flow is too much for "processing" causing the flushing effect. The PDF also helps by showing the placement of the "Loop", etc in the system. Before I really couldn't tell where it was placed for certain and had to guess. Got it! 

Thanx! roud:


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Just timed a water change with this system. Changed 90 gallons in 9 tanks and dosed ferts in 45 minutes. I have about a half day of my life back......DC


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

Seeing this thing in action would make anyone want one, so with that I have a few questions I didn't ask earlier.

-How is the drain hooked up?
-How long are the hoses, and what happened to the yellow hoses?
-Any problems with sucking up baby fish/shrimp?
-What do you dose for kh and gh, ie calcium and magnesium and do you dose it all right after water change, or broken up throughout the week?
-Did you get all of the "PVC to hose" adapters locally?

Thanks.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

yoink said:


> Seeing this thing in action would make anyone want one, so with that I have a few questions I didn't ask earlier.
> 
> -How is the drain hooked up?
> 
> ...


Let me know when you are ready and we will make you a setup......DC


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

Here she is, my DC water changer. It is pretty close to the same thing. The drain and fill hookup is a little different.

Water changer part, mine is 3/4" and works well on my 5g or 75g. The hoses come off at 90 degrees because I have some tanks on the floor and it would kink otherwise.









RO system, the third canister is empty right now.









Down into the bucket









The drain is in the back. It is two flexible couplings and a PVC tee. It was hard to find a way to connect PVC to brass(bathtub drain), this seemed the easiest. I tried one of those self piercing saddle valves for the supply to the RO, they don't work well at all. Soldering is much easier, if not as good looking.



























The drain and fill lines run into the closet here.









The water closet.










Thanks for helping me reclaim my sundays.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

You made a nice setup. I did not even think about linking into existing drain plumbing like that, nice job. Did you end up using a Mag 5 pump?......DC


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

Yeah I used a mag 5 too. I'm happy with the flow it provides, any more and it might knock my substrate around in all of those little tanks. I need to get something to go around the hose running into the drain line, it kinks a little and slows the syphon down. I had to tap into the back of the bathtub because this is in my bathroom. I could have put it out in the garage, but that would mean really long hoses and really cold water. It all went pretty smoothly expect the damn self-piercing valve. I messed with that thing for a couple hours trying to get it not to leak. I finally broke down and went to lowes for a couple copper pieces, took about twenty minutes after that.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

yoink said:


> Yeah I used a mag 5 too. I'm happy with the flow it provides, any more and it might knock my substrate around in all of those little tanks. I need to get something to go around the hose running into the drain line, it kinks a little and slows the syphon down. I had to tap into the back of the bathtub because this is in my bathroom. I could have put it out in the garage, but that would mean really long hoses and really cold water. It all went pretty smoothly expect the damn self-piercing valve. I messed with that thing for a couple hours trying to get it not to leak. I finally broke down and went to lowes for a couple copper pieces, took about twenty minutes after that.



Mine kinked also so I made something out of pvc.










I have a bunch of plastic pieces left over from my Fluvals that would probably keep the hose from kinking if you wanna try them.......DC.


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## midazolam (Sep 2, 2007)

DiabloCanine said:


>


1) Looking through the square hole in the top of the barrel, is that a true union that allows you to unscrew the pump from the manifold?

2) with regard to your water changers. What starts the siphon when you are draining the tanks?

Really nice set up. Going to try and do something similar on a smaller scale tomorrow or wednesday.

Thanks!


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

midazolam said:


> 1) Looking through the square hole in the top of the barrel, is that a true union that allows you to unscrew the pump from the manifold?
> 
> 2) with regard to your water changers. What starts the siphon when you are draining the tanks?
> 
> ...


1. Yes, that goes to the pump.

2. By manipulating the ball valves a siphon can be started, i.e., the fill valve and pump is turned on allowing water into the tank then the drain ball valve is opened and the fill ball valve closed which starts a siphon........DC


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## midazolam (Sep 2, 2007)

DiabloCanine said:


> 1. Yes, that goes to the pump.
> 
> 2. By manipulating the ball valves a siphon can be started, i.e., the fill valve and pump is turned on allowing water into the tank then the drain ball valve is opened and the fill ball valve closed which starts a siphon........DC


Thanks, I'll let you know how mine turns out.


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## BuckeyeFieldSupply (Nov 26, 2005)

Great work.

You may want to think about swapping out those standard garden hoses for hoses designed for potable water. They are very inexpensive.

Russ


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

BuckeyeFieldSupply said:


> Great work.
> 
> You may want to think about swapping out those standard garden hoses for hoses designed for potable water. They are very inexpensive.
> 
> Russ


How much for 70 feet?.....DC


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

BuckeyeFieldSupply said:


> Great work.
> 
> You may want to think about swapping out those standard garden hoses for hoses designed for potable water. They are very inexpensive.
> 
> Russ


Are they any less kink resistant than the marine/RV potable water hoses from a hardware store? The hoses I have now are terrible when it comes to kinks.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

*update*

Here is an update to the water change equipment. I was so crammed into this room that it wasn't fun even going in there. I decided to go back to one 55 gallon drum, since I have a 100gpd RO system it will refill in 12 hours anyway. RMC hooked me up with a drum that has a removable top, been wanting one for quite some time.

Here is what it looks like now:










I picked this up at Lowes to store the water changers in:










I built an electrical box with a switch to turn the pump on/off, also a receptacle for the heater.










Here is the top of the barrel, I will label everything at a later date:










RO unit was updated with another filter and 100gpd parts:


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## dwstonebraker (May 3, 2007)

Hey DC -

Were the other 55 gallon drums (closed tops with a square hole used?) I talked to RMC the other day and he said you had picked up that new 55 gal barrel. I am looking for a few but do not want to spend the 70 ea from the local provider.. A place downtown has used for 20$ each food grade, but I do not know that I want the hassle either. Did you have any luck with used?

Your system looks great btw!


Dustin


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

I got mine used from DC. It said "Bus Wax" on the barrell, but a couple days filled with water and a good scrub and it was ready to use. None of my animals have shown any problems, you should be fine with a food grade barrell.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

dwstonebraker said:


> Hey DC -
> 
> Were the other 55 gallon drums (closed tops with a square hole used?) I talked to RMC the other day and he said you had picked up that new 55 gal barrel. I am looking for a few but do not want to spend the 70 ea from the local provider.. A place downtown has used for 20$ each food grade, but I do not know that I want the hassle either. Did you have any luck with used?
> 
> ...


I had no problems with used barrels, purged them for a few days and they were good to go. I do not know how much water you want to store but I was going to buy a 100 gallon barrel before RMC hooked me up with the new one. I think it was around $100 for a vertical barrel that has the same foot print as a 55 gallon drum. Let me know if you are interested and I will post the link (I am at work now). This new barrel is working great and I can already tell the humidity difference in the room with the closed system........DC


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## dwstonebraker (May 3, 2007)

Please post the 100 gallon link!  Sounds great


Thanks

Dustin


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## dwstonebraker (May 3, 2007)

any idea where to get 2 inch gate valves that are not 100$ each? I just tried to order from aquaticeco but they are on a one month back order.. 

Always something --

Thanks

Dustin


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

dwstonebraker said:


> Please post the 100 gallon link!  Sounds great
> 
> 
> Thanks
> ...



Here you go.....DC

http://www.tank-depot.com/product.aspx?id=123


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

dwstonebraker said:


> any idea where to get 2 inch gate valves that are not 100$ each? I just tried to order from aquaticeco but they are on a one month back order..
> 
> Always something --
> 
> ...


How about here?....DC

http://www.watergarden.org/s.nl;jse...322c.e3eTaxiNaN0Te34Pa38Ta38Pc3n0?it=A&id=536


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## dwstonebraker (May 3, 2007)

Thanks for the links - i found them at Aqua Pools in Avon - 17.90 each - I cant ship them for that 

Thanks Again!

Dustin


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

dwstonebraker said:


> Thanks for the links - i found them at Aqua Pools in Avon - 17.90 each - I cant ship them for that
> 
> Thanks Again!
> 
> Dustin


RMC has my old barrels. You might want to see what he wants to part with them. I left them pretty much intact; you would need a float and pump, most of the pvc was left connected.......DC


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## dwstonebraker (May 3, 2007)

I was using a float of the same brand for my RO system. The float did not seem to stop the flow though. Did you have the same experience? I have a 125 psi pump behind the ro system, that might make a difference.

Dustin


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

dwstonebraker said:


> I was using a float of the same brand for my RO system. The float did not seem to stop the flow though. Did you have the same experience? I have a 125 psi pump behind the ro system, that might make a difference.
> 
> Dustin


I have never had a problem, pressure out of my softener is a little over 60 psi. Did you try to email Kent Marine? They are very responsive. I bet they would recommend using the FVKITKENT2 for that pressure. I'm curious why you need a 125 psi pump. What is the gpd rating of your RO unit?.....DC


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## dwstonebraker (May 3, 2007)

Its 100gpd but it was well water with about 400 tds, so the pressure helped move things along. 


I may contact them.

Thanks

Dustin


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

dwstonebraker said:


> Its 100gpd but it was well water with about 400 tds, so the pressure helped move things along.
> 
> 
> I may contact them.
> ...



Wow, 400, you could almost mine that. I never checked mine coming in, wonder what it is? My RO unit prefilter is a pretty orange......DC


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## noresull (Oct 14, 2007)

Just a little note about what could fail with that float system. It is possible for the float itself to fail and fill with water thus preventing it from floating and shutting the flow off. This is not likely with plastic floats, but any motor heads here have probably seen a float in a carbereutor do this. I would think the best thing for redundancy would be to install an electric float switch set a few inches higher than the primary float and connect it to an electric solenoid on the inlet side of the RO system.

I really like your system and am, *in no way* trying to bash it, I just wanted to point out a possible failure that I believe did not get enough attention in the beginning of this thread.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

noresull said:


> Just a little note about what could fail with that float system. It is possible for the float itself to fail and fill with water thus preventing it from floating and shutting the flow off. This is not likely with plastic floats, but any motor heads here have probably seen a float in a carbereutor do this. I would think the best thing for redundancy would be to install an electric float switch set a few inches higher than the primary float and connect it to an electric solenoid on the inlet side of the RO system.
> 
> I really like your system and am, *in no way* trying to bash it, I just wanted to point out a possible failure that I believe did not get enough attention in the beginning of this thread.


Do you know of any of the Kent floats that have failed?......DC


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## noresull (Oct 14, 2007)

No, I do not, but it is a possibility. Like I said, I really like your setup and I don't want to appear as if I'm bashing anything at all! I just have this annoying habit of always looking for ways things can fail.

I like your setup so much, I am probably going to base mine on yours and since I don't want to buy an electric solenoid and electric float switch it will probably be practically identical!
















On a side note, I have looked at your sliding glass cover project and will also be doing that for my 100 gallon!


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

DiabloCanine said:


> Wow, 400, you could almost mine that. I never checked mine coming in, wonder what it is? My RO unit prefilter is a pretty orange......DC


Mine turns orange realy quick too. My TDS just measured 430ppm out of the tap, I bet your's is pretty high too if you are on greenwood water.


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## Khandurian (Oct 25, 2006)

Wow, I thought my tds was high at 300! shesh!


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

yoink said:


> Mine turns orange realy quick too. My TDS just measured 430ppm out of the tap, I bet your's is pretty high too if you are on greenwood water.


I wonder if we can sell the old filters as iron ore when they wear out. My TDS comes out of the RO @ 10. What is yours?.........DC


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

I'm thinking of setting up a water barrell for aging & heating water. I already have the barrell and a Mag 5 pump, which I used for something else. I've planning for awhile, but just never really did anything. Though, I do want to get it setup by the summer.

DC, how far is the barrell from the tanks?

Does the Mag 5 provide enough pressure to fill up the tanks?

Is it a big gush that flows into the tanks or it is just a nice gentle flow?


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

DiabloCanine said:


> I wonder if we can sell the old filters as iron ore when they wear out. My TDS comes out of the RO @ 10. What is yours?.........DC


I missed this the first time around, mine comes out @ 10ppm as well.


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