# Any plants that grows in plain sand without any fertilizers?!!



## Susobhan (Jan 30, 2018)

Hello everyone,
I've an aquarium with 1 to 2inch layer of plain sand (2-5mm grain) as a substrate and an undergravel filter system installed. Lighting is 1wpg compact fluorescent lamp. What are the plants I can grow in this tank without any fertilizers and co2? 
I've heard that I can grow Cryptocoryne Wendtii and Amazon sword in that along with Anubias, Java Moss and Java Ferns.
Does anyone have any experience on this?


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

You can fertilize the water column and grow most plants that grow without CO2. After all water column fertilization is partly done by fish poop in the setup anyway.

You need to fertilize to grow plants, both organic and inorganic fertilization methods work, just need to work within limitations.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Many of the crypt species could get by with a root tab near the base of the plant perhaps monthly.
Stem plant's would also need root tab (s) lest they grow spindly due to poor root development.
Sand would prevent dissolved organic matter such as fish poop,fish food's from working it's way to the root area's where plant's could use it as fuel/food for growth.
Fine gravel would be my choice.
Much better result's as mentioned ,by adding some fertilizer to the water perhaps once a week.
Low to moderate light for this type tank.


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## Susobhan (Jan 30, 2018)

Thanks for the help guys!


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## fishyfishy101 (Nov 12, 2014)

roadmaster said:


> Many of the crypt species could get by with a root tab near the base of the plant perhaps monthly.
> Stem plant's would also need root tab (s) lest they grow spindly due to poor root development.
> Sand would prevent dissolved organic matter such as fish poop,fish food's from working it's way to the root area's where plant's could use it as fuel/food for growth.
> Fine gravel would be my choice.
> ...


I'm just curious how root tabs would work with the undergravel filter? I would think that the nutrients would seep into the water column?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

fishyfishy101 said:


> I'm just curious how root tabs would work with the undergravel filter? I would think that the nutrients would seep into the water column?


Oop's my bad:|.I did not note under gravel filter.
I'm wondering how sand is not falling through the plate?
In any event nutrient's leaching into water column is of little concern.
Plant's will take up nutient's from both the substrate and the water column.


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## fishyfishy101 (Nov 12, 2014)

roadmaster said:


> Oop's my bad:|.I did not note under gravel filter.
> I'm wondering how sand is not falling through the plate?
> In any event nutrient's leaching into water column is of little concern.
> Plant's will take up nutient's from both the substrate and the water column.


That's what I was thinking at first. But aren't root tabs a more concentrated form of nutrients? I would think that it would just cause a massive algae bloom


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Double negative-
1) An UGF will not work well with a sand substrate because the sand packs together too dense to allow good circulation AND will tend to plug the slots in the filter.
2) Sand/Gravel are inert substrates as they contain no plant usable nutrients. Rooted plants get most of their nourishment from the roots (although some may also come from the water column). It's best to use root tabs for rooted plants to ensure they get enough for good growth.


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## SquigglyThing (Oct 15, 2017)

I use a DIY RUGF with sand, it works just fine. I have grown Christmas tree moss quite well in plain sand, as well as Ceratophyllum demersum, which is normally called coontail. duckweed does quite well, too.


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## Susobhan (Jan 30, 2018)

Guys, the sand I am using is coarse sand with larger graneules. So, till now the UGF is working fine. I've put a layer of 2 inches.


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## Susobhan (Jan 30, 2018)

My neighbor is growing Amazon sword in plain sand without any fertilizers. He has some anubias, Java Ferns and Java Moss. He is saying fish poo and food waste along with water column will provide sufficient nutrients to these plants. Confused?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Susobhan said:


> My neighbor is growing Amazon sword in plain sand without any fertilizers. He has some anubias, Java Ferns and Java Moss. He is saying fish poo and food waste along with water column will provide sufficient nutrients to these plants. Confused?


At the correct levels fish waste can easily support, theoretically, any plants needs. But, that would have to be a very very old tank, with tons of mulm and waste worked into the sand, dissolved in the water etc etc. not to mention several other issues that will show up if we let that scenario go unattended. 

Is your neighbor dosing the water column only? And leaving fish/food waste to fertilize the sand? If so then yes, I can see him/her growing those plants just fine.


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## phlppt (Feb 1, 2018)

some things just shouldn't be done


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

IMO, just pull out the UGF and get another filter.


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## crazy4looney2n (Feb 1, 2018)

*Stick to plants that don't want to be under the sand*

Hello,

With your substrate being sand I'd stick to plants like Anubias, Java Fern, Banana Plant, and floating plants like Frogbit and Water Lettuce that don't need their roots buried. I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I know about. The reason for this is because sand compacts too much making it really hard for the roots to grow and spread under the sand.

I hope this helps


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Susobhan said:


> My neighbor is growing Amazon sword in plain sand without any fertilizers. He has some anubias, Java Ferns and Java Moss. He is saying fish poo and food waste along with water column will provide sufficient nutrients to these plants. Confused?


As an organic gardener I have long held that plants can be grown well (if not better) organically, without chemical fertilizers. Nature seems to grow stuff pretty well without tilling and chemical warfare!
However, sand and gravel are inert and contain no plant usable nutrients. That being the case (as mentioned) you'd need a very mature, established tank in order to grow plants with no other food source. Fish food and fish waste can support plants, but there must be balance for this to happen. Additionally, heavy root feeder plants may struggle some without worms or Malaysian Trumpet Snails to enrich the substrate.

So, it can likely be done, but requires patience and balance of bio-load to plant mass.

Footnote: I'd lose the UGF as frankly I feel they're more trouble than they're worth especially in a planted tank.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

crazy4looney2n said:


> Hello,
> 
> With your substrate being sand I'd stick to plants like Anubias, Java Fern, Banana Plant, and floating plants like Frogbit and Water Lettuce that don't need their roots buried. I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I know about. The reason for this is because sand compacts too much making it really hard for the roots to grow and spread under the sand.
> 
> I hope this helps


Practice says otherwise. Stem plants will do well regardless of the substrate if the water column is sufficiently fertilized. Plants with heavy root systems such as Cryptocoryne, Echinodorus and others develop massive root systems even in fine sand.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

crazy4looney2n said:


> Hello,
> 
> With your substrate being sand I'd stick to plants like Anubias, Java Fern, Banana Plant, and floating plants like Frogbit and Water Lettuce that don't need their roots buried. I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I know about. The reason for this is because sand compacts too much making it really hard for the roots to grow and spread under the sand.
> 
> I hope this helps


Wrong this is totally false

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Susobhan (Jan 30, 2018)

Guys! Finally! My aquarium is ready! UGF is installed with coarse sand as substrate. Lighting is 5w LED with DIY setup. I've put the amazon swords and rotala in cups with potting soil and sand cap. Anubias Nana- and Java fern is tied on rocks. Moss is attached on a DIY coconut shell cave. After 2 weeks they are looking good. Fishes are Micky mouse platy, red platy and red swordtail till now. What you think?!! And thanks for all of your support buddies!!!


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Looks great. Keep us posted as to how it works out. You're really limiting the root system of your sword and rotala by putting them in cups. (as well as severely limiting the oxygen that gets to the roots.) At least this will keep the sword roots from growing all through the filter tubing.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

The moment I ditched my UG filter back in 1992 on the 29 gallon and instead plumbed into a high CEC substrate with gravel heat cables was the period when I started having some serious success with with my first planted tanks.

Bump:


dukydaf said:


> Practice says otherwise. Stem plants will do well regardless of the substrate if the water column is sufficiently fertilized. Plants with heavy root systems such as Cryptocoryne, Echinodorus and others develop massive root systems even in fine sand.


I've seen some serious root masses below my forests of Rotala and Ludwigia, it also depends a lot on the health and make up of the substrate, and I've not gotten Rotala to do as well in a tank with a UG filter or plain, inert sand/gravel.


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## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

I’ll add my vote (not that this is a vote, of course) for no UGF. Converting that to an air-rise sponge filter is easy, and significantly more effective (also easier to clean). I grow lots of plants in sand, some with ferts in substrate, some with water ferts, but none with zero ferts - the plants all melt. Fish food and waste doesn’t provide all needs for healthy plants in my tries. Even easy plants couldn’t hold on (moss, java fern, bacopa, anacharis - all moved from tank to tank, in the same room). 
Nice looking tank. I like the moss coconut. The pots may limit roots as said - but they look cool. Maybe you can keep the plants small with frequent trimming? I haven’t tried, but I’d be curious to see how it works out.


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