# Starting a new tank



## PJM (Nov 6, 2013)

*Sure*

look at some of the 12 long club tanks; they are only about 9" tall and growing nice plants. Iwagumi is what I plan on doing with mine once I get all the stuff that is needed. I'm new to planted tanks and learning with a 10 gal. so far so good. Good luck!


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Had to look up Iwagumi! Probably going to use driftwood in the tank. Hoping to try put some dwarf baby tears on it to see I I can get a tree like appearance. Is that possible with good lighting but no co2?


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Also is a satellite led plus strip overkill for a tank like this?


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## twkoch (Aug 29, 2013)

anfield said:


> Had to look up Iwagumi! Probably going to use driftwood in the tank. Hoping to try put some dwarf baby tears on it to see I I can get a tree like appearance. Is that possible with good lighting but no co2?


Nope, dwarf baby tears is a very demanding plant. Not a good choice for a beginner. Try a moss tree instead. I also suggest going with organic dirt capped with pool filter sand for your substrate. very cheap and it gives great results without having to dose ferts. For lighting I would go with a cheap t8 fluorescent fixture from home depot. This will be plenty of light for low tech and only cost about $20. I use these over a number of my tanks. Here is one of my dirted tanks with t8 lighting from Lowes. I don't dose any ferts, just do water changes and watch the plants grow :thumbsup:


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

hmm was hoping to go with LEDs for a number of reasons. The local petstore has a 40 gallon breeder tank that comes with some kind of LED strip (no details). What specifications should I be looking for when I go back? Thanks.


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## PJM (Nov 6, 2013)

*nope*



anfield said:


> Also is a satellite led plus strip overkill for a tank like this?


If you got the money go for it. I just bought mine at pet solutions for under $97 36"-48" LED+ on back-order (no hurry anyway). I like to tinker, so that's why I got it, a lot of cool settings.


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks. May have more questions once I get the setup in place. Appreciate the help.


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

So from reading I understand that too much light with no CO2 can result in algae blooms. I do want to enhance growth a little bit so if I use satellite LED+ strip + added carbon (not CO2) and some ferts should work well? 

However, if I do all this, does this mean I have to do frequent water changes? Not sure I understand why. Thanks in advance.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

You want to do water changes in order to take nitrates out of the system. Imagine that you're continuously pooping in a bathtub full of water and you sat in it. Wouldn't you want to change that water at some point?


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Heh I suppose........not sure i want to do 50 percent water changes every week. The tank will be in the living room and I will be using a bucket. I might just have to go for no carbon and low ferts dosing approach. I also read somewhere that carbon in the filters removes essential nutrients for plants? Do you then remove the carbon from the filters? And what do you replace it with?


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## Bryk (Feb 26, 2013)

In a planted tank, whether lightly planted or heavily planted you want to focus on biological and mechanical filtering. Just take out the carbon and skip carbon all together. The easily replacement is always water changes. Not sure you want to hear that, but yeah that's the way it is unfortunately.

With lightly planted tanks, if you have enough bioload your tank will cycle. If you do water changes during this period your cycle will slow down and may even have to start over.

If you have the tank planted enough with situated plants(heavily planted), and a low enough bioload that your plants can keep up with it, then you can essentially go cycleless. This is obviously harder to achieve as getting plants situated isn't always easy, you have to know the plant is getting everything it needs. Some weeds are easier to do it with, and the more fast growers you have, the easier it is to go cycleless.

Usually people think their tank is heavily planted, and while the plants may absorb some of it, there is still enough to cause a nitrogen cycle.

If you plant heavily enough, or close enough, and do weekly water changes, essentially you are preventing a cycle from ever happening.


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## Bryk (Feb 26, 2013)

anfield said:


> So from reading I understand that too much light with no CO2 can result in algae blooms. I do want to enhance growth a little bit so if I use satellite LED+ strip + added carbon (not CO2) and some ferts should work well?
> 
> However, if I do all this, does this mean I have to do frequent water changes? Not sure I understand why. Thanks in advance.


You get algae blooms when conditions exist that favor algae over plants, this can be as simple as a surface for algae to grow on where the algae has enough of its demands(light/nutrients) that aren't being absorbed by anything else.

Plants need macros, micros, light (temperature, PH, hardness) everything that they are capable of growing in, and they need it in the correct portions given for that plant(fast, slow grower etc), on top of that it can take some time to get situated in a tank. If you have extra light that they can't utilize algae will come knocking on any surface it can.

These algae blooms occur when one of these, nutrients / light is too much for a plant to handle at a given time, which is especially common early on before a tank gets situated(heavily planted) or cycled (lightly/non planted).


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## shawnwaldon (Dec 5, 2013)

To answer your first question about tank size I will say this. If you use a light with 6500K rating then you want to keep the tank under 20" tall otherwise you would have to put some higher kelvin bulbs in or more watts per gallon. A 40 breeder is a perfect tank to start with for several reasons. Lots of room, it's deep, and the equipment is cheaper for the size of tank it is for starters. 

I would go a fishless cycle using stability or some other chemical and no water changes. That is the fastest way to cycle a tank in my experience. It usually takes around 2 - 4 weeks and you can add some plants if you want. When you stock the tank with fish then I would only do 20 - 25% water changes once a week to keep the nutrients, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite in check. 

Lighting I would go with a dual t5ho fixture. It will give you a good moderate light and to help keep algae down I would only have it on for 6 - 8 hours a day and increase the length of time as you see fit. Eventually I would go co2 though.


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Appreciate the detailed responses. Its certainly helped me realize that I may have to scale back my expectations. At least until I am able to devote more time. Have no problem doing large weekly water changes for the first month or two but I know my limitations and don't think I will be able to sustain it with all that I have going on. Probably try the CO2 approach once I have a handle on things since I have not run an aquarium since I was a kid.

I may look at an approach that does not involve adding carbon or fertilizer. Just started reading up on the Walstad method. Any quick thoughts on that?


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Well being doing some quick reading on the Walstad method and I really do not want to get into using straight soil in the tank. aargh. At this rate I am going to end up with Eco-complete, decent lighting and some easy to grow plants.........

Would fert tabs in the soil be an alternative that could keep plants going without causing nutrient imbalance in the water or am I deluding myself?


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## shawnwaldon (Dec 5, 2013)

I have a dirted tank and there way less maintenance and require less equipment such as co2 and ferts. I have a 5g and aside from topoffs from evaporation I only change the filter or do water changes once to twice a month. I am sure the frequency of maintenance will be less the larger the tank. Go on youtube and type in Dustin's fish tanks and you will have all the information you could ever need from him about dirted tanks, after all he is the king of dirt tanks. 

Pros.

Easy to care for
No ferts needed
No co2 needed
Less lighting needed
Cheaper then traditional substraight
Plants grow like crazy

Cons

Tannins 
Can cause ammonia in the tank.
Plants grow like crazy

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/album.php?albumid=14569


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks. So the setup I am considering after all this is a 40 gallon breeder with satellite LED+ strip, aquaclear 70 gallon HOB filter (with carbon removed). Substrate will be Eco-complete, dirt is very tempting but I want to ease into this hobby with simple stuff. I'm thinking I will use fert tabs in the soil? So this should reduce the need for weekly water changes? I can change frequently early on but eventually want to go to 25% changes every two weeks. I intend to plant heavily but mostly will be forced to use low maintenance plants. No supplemental carbon or co2. Any big holes in this approach? I realize this will be slower growing but will have to live with that. Once I feel comfortable with this approach perhaps will upgrade


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## PJM (Nov 6, 2013)

*Check this*



anfield said:


> I may look at an approach that does not involve adding carbon or fertilizer. Just started reading up on the Walstad method. Any quick thoughts on that?


Check out Dustin's Fish Tanks


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks I did look up his videos but decided that to ease myself back into this I was going to avoid dirted tanks for now. See my previous post.
I read that I should remove carbon from the filter, is this fairly simple to do or is there a particular filter one would recommend for planted tanks?


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

anfield said:


> Well being doing some quick reading on the Walstad method and I really do not want to get into using straight soil in the tank. aargh. At this rate I am going to end up with Eco-complete, decent lighting and some easy to grow plants.........
> 
> Would fert tabs in the soil be an alternative that could keep plants going without causing nutrient imbalance in the water or am I deluding myself?


Well, not really, unless you can find a root tab that has all of the required nutrients. I use Flourish Tabs for root plants and they seem to like it, but it only contains micros.


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## GadgetGirl (Oct 11, 2013)

I think the Walstad method is exactly the route you need to go. People's bad experiences are almost always due to mistakes. If the potting soil (I used Miracle Gro Organic Choice) is properly prepared - soaked & drained several times, then mineralized thoroughly, AND mature filter media is used in your filter, you won't have an an ammonia spike. This is what I did and I have not had ammonia or nitrite since day one. Plants and fish are thriving with occasional water changes (every few months or so). Contrary to what a previous poster said, the fish are NOT swimming in their own waste. The plants are using it as fast as it is produced. 
Also, although Dustin is a master, Diana Walstad is the guru! Read her book, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium". 

The main points are: properly prepared soil, mature filter media, and HEAVILY planted (include fast-growing plants and floaters.) I can't overemphasize properly prepared soil as it will not produce ammonia or tannins. Mix a little pure clay-only kitty litter or Saf-T-Sorb in the soil and this will keep nutrients in the soil.

I never even have nitrates in my water and pH stays stable. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

You might have me convinced. However, I do quite a bit of scaping and rescaping in my backyard. I doubt I will be able to restrain myself in the tank. Surely removing rooted plants from soil capped with gravel in an aquarium can be really messy?


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

Django said:


> Well, not really, unless you can find a root tab that has all of the required nutrients. I use Flourish Tabs for root plants and they seem to like it, but it only contains micros.


To clarify, tabs that I know about do not contain macronutrients - only micronutrients, but heavy root feeders benefit to a great degree from them (Swords). The tabs will not upset the balance and you should feed micronutrients too, for the water and for leaf feeders.

There is a [dry?] product called "Osmocote" that is being used by some people, but I don't know whether it's comprehensive or just micros.

I think canister filters are preferred, with inside underwater filters in smaller tanks while they can maintain 10 * volume per hour.


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Osmocote? As in the garden fertilizer pellets? Interesting.


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