# My homegrown Aquasky with par data



## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

What is "Advanced Light Meter"? If it's a phone app, the data doesn't mean anything.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

That is from the seneye


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Everything is 4000k-ish.. to the Seneye.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Everything is 4000k-ish.. to the Seneye.


Seneye is absolutely horrible at detecting temp color. You should know this. The Seneye always thinks that my ATI blue+ bulb is ~24000K temp when it's nowhere near close as they are a super light blue. It's always all over the place.

The PUR reading I don't know what they base the number on either. Advanced Aquarist for example rates an ATI True Actinic at 95% PUR but Seneye never shows it past 70.

Bump:


ChrisX said:


> What is "Advanced Light Meter"? If it's a phone app, the data doesn't mean anything.


I don't know of any phone app that can detect PAR as they don't have the sensors. That is the data from a Seneye with v2 firmware which is pretty good at measuring PAR.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

I feel like to some degree the seneye truncates blue and red where the pur would be able to go past 70 and their spectral graph really looks like it smooths out dips, but it's about as good as you can get for 200$ To significantly upgrade in those areas we'd be spending a tremendous amount of money (for hobbyists anyhow) on testing equipment. Like where is the cyan gap with the blue spike on the left in any seneye graph ever?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Wobblebonk said:


> I feel like to some degree the seneye truncates blue and red where the pur would be able to go past 70 and their spectral graph really looks like it smooths out dips, but it's about as good as you can get for 200$ To significantly upgrade in those areas we'd be spending a tremendous amount of money (for hobbyists anyhow) on testing equipment. Like where is the cyan gap with the blue spike on the left in any seneye graph ever?


Yeah I basically just use it for PAR. The v2 firmware really made it tons better. In the BRS video it was the only one that kept up with the Li-Cor 192.

Their co2 sensor got delayed though which sucks. That's going to be another buy right away. I lucked out on the Seneye as I got mine brand new for $60. There was a guy in my local reef forum that was moving and just wanted it gone ASAP. Said he got it as a Christmas gift but never actually cared enough to even take it out of the package.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

slightly upgraded old Apogee (btw own a Seneye myself)










Problem w/ sw tests.. Little red..

as to it's spectrum analysis.. Pretty sure it is an interpolation of a RGB filtered sensor..



> To significantly upgrade in those areas we'd be spending a tremendous amount of money


can't really get a decent spectrophotometer for less than $1600 usually..


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

jeffkrol said:


> can't really get a decent spectrophotometer for less than $1600 usually..


Which is a little too much to me for a more accurate spectrum graph / pur / cri measurements on a few lights. Though I have been known to buy some ridiculous stuff at times...

The light looks pretty good though, the lights I've made are hilariously ugly.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Some temp testing as someone at ukaps mentioned that the acrylic might get too hot and start to sag over time.

Upright temp on thermometer is at the strip itself and upside down is the acrylic top right above the strip.

2 hours in

















5+ hours in

















Still don't know how it's managed to stay that cool for the amount of light it's pushing. SMD strips get pretty hot after a while and they are not as strong.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

More efficient.. cooler ..
SMD have "heaters".. i.e resistors that are converting voltage to heat.
One every 3 diodes.

constant current.. no waste..

and poor efficiency..

and poor heat transfer/spread substrate.


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## Geoffrey2568 (Mar 8, 2018)

I find it interesting that even when mounted onto the acrylic the numbers are very similar to a test that someone did in another forum. In that thread, he tested a 2' strip in free air, with no ambient airflow or heatsinking. He got: 
700mA 19.26Vf 43.4C
1050mA 19.68Vf 56.4C
1400mA 20.08Vf 71.9C



jeffkrol said:


> More efficient.. cooler ..
> SMD have "heaters".. i.e resistors that are converting voltage to heat.
> One every 3 diodes.
> 
> ...


Is that a generalization for all SMD strips or just the China ones?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

No generalization is good for everything but
1)constant voltage strips need resistors..And diodes generate their own heat.
2)tiny flexible ribbons don't have the necessary mass for proper heat conduction.

Overall diode efficiency is getting better though..


Use this to determine resistor "heat".
LED series parallel array wizard

A sort of "normal" array..

Use 60mA for .2W diodes, 120mA for .5w diodes

You can eliminate a lot of the heat by using a variable voltage power supply..
Use 11V and you cut resistor heating in 1/2..






> Solution 0: 3 x 10 array uses 30 LEDs exactly
> +12V
> +	-|>|-	-|>|-	-|>|-	-/\/\/\-	+	R = 82 ohms
> +	-|>|-	-|>|-	-|>|-	-/\/\/\-	+	R = 82 ohms
> ...


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## Geoffrey2568 (Mar 8, 2018)

Hmm, maybe I just don't understand what resistors do or how they work. I just know they're the little black thing between diodes on many China strips (and I don't see it on the EB strip). When people DIY their own lights, for example using Rebel ES or Cree XPG3 diodes, do they need resistors as well?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Geoffrey2568 said:


> Hmm, maybe I just don't understand what resistors do or how they work. I just know they're the little black thing between diodes on many China strips


The resistors are to limit current.. They limit current by dropping the voltage..
Voltage adds in series..
So 3 3.3V diodes in series needs 9.9V.. Feed it 12V w/ out resistors.. poof ! generally speaking..
diodes will draw too much current at 4V each..
Put a resistor of the correct value to limit voltage to 9.9V (and consequently current) no poof..

That energy needs to go somewhere. In the case of resistors.. heat..

Like space heaters.. high resistance to voltage = heat..Ones w/ the curly wire or wire in general.
not infared ect..





Geoffrey2568 said:


> (and I don't see it on the EB strip). When people DIY their own lights, for example using Rebel ES or Cree XPG3 diodes, do they need resistors as well?


not normally . they run constant current..different driving method.
https://www.ledsupply.com/blog/constant-current-led-drivers-vs-constant-voltage-led-drivers/

EB strips don't (more correctly shouldn't) be run w/ constant voltage source.. 
Theoretically one could put a resistor on the end and run it that way but not as efficiently..

*Theoretical:*
20V power supply, no more, no less


> Solution 0: 1 x 1 array uses 1 LEDs exactly
> +20V
> +	-|>|-	-/\/\/\-	+	R = 1.5 ohms
> The wizard says: In solution 0:
> ...


350mA current draw..1/2W 1.5Ohm resistor.. go up to 24V and you need a 2W 15 Ohm resistor to keep the voltage at 19.5V..

how to drive a 280mm strip w/out a "driver" like a Meanwell LDD constant current one.

Problem is usually stability of power supply/resistor/diodes w/ this method..


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

so is there any splash gaurde over the strips? or are they just open to the air (which would make sense if it can maintain temp, if its sealed up i'm really impresed.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Kampo said:


> so is there any splash gaurde over the strips? or are they just open to the air (which would make sense if it can maintain temp, if its sealed up i'm really impresed.


No splash guard. There really isn't anything on the strips that really need it other than the 4 solder points which I covered with hot glue. The push connect fittings on the strips are pretty sealed up. Only way I can see water getting inside those is if the whole thing goes for a swim.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Color is not bad at all. Trying to source some erio king crimson's to see how reds do as that's the big empty patch by rocks is for.









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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

since you have a par meter, would you be willing to get some data at different heights? i'm trying to figure out for my fish room what I would be running on various tanks so I can plan accordingly. 

Heights i'm curious about 12in, 16in and 21in (prolly can use your numbers for 21in) planning only single row lights for all but the 21in but figure I can just 1/2 your number you come up with and be in the ball park.

Bump: actually disregard. just realized your middle readings would be basically 12in. so I can extrapolate info I need from that. damn I'm basically pushing high light with a single strip over my 20Ls lol wow...might need to look into some dimmers


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Kampo said:


> since you have a par meter, would you be willing to get some data at different heights? i'm trying to figure out for my fish room what I would be running on various tanks so I can plan accordingly.
> 
> Heights i'm curious about 12in, 16in and 21in (prolly can use your numbers for 21in) planning only single row lights for all but the 21in but figure I can just 1/2 your number you come up with and be in the ball park.
> 
> Bump: actually disregard. just realized your middle readings would be basically 12in. so I can extrapolate info I need from that. damn I'm basically pushing high light with a single strip over my 20Ls lol wow...might need to look into some dimmers


I have to take some measurements anyway for underwater as PAR should have gone up vs free air. I am waiting on some acrylic so I can put together a wand for the seneye. Taking underwater measurements with it is a pain otherwise.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

gus, this is one of the best looking DIY lights I've ever seen. I'm watching this thread as I could handle building one in this style.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

With a heat sink, you can double the lumens. These are impressive. Four of these would blast a 4' tank.

A tank pic against a white background would be nice, the red wall makes it hard to estimate the color.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

Hey how's the light doing? 
Can't believe I just found this thread and the references to the seneye spectrum being a little biased.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

monkeyruler90 said:


> Hey how's the light doing?
> Can't believe I just found this thread and the references to the seneye spectrum being a little biased.


Shut it down. I play with stuff like this all the time just to see what works. But yes Seneye runs hot on the red side. If you are running a lot of violet which I like to do it really under-reports big time.

I am thinking of a new project with the new Thrive cobs just released by Bridgelux. Min 95CRI from a 6500K led is rad on a cob that costs 7 bucks.










I found some older rapidled quad-core semiled violet chips in my garage too to go along with it. They are 400/405/410/415nm. I am thinking that the 5000K Bridgelux with 2x quad-core violets will get me something close to 6500K but with a huge amount of violet pump.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

ahh, so if I have a pretty red/warm light and I add some violet/blue/royal blue LEDs it'll crisp it up the appearance? 

I noticed when I did the seneye on my tank it was giving me really warm biased readings but not sure if that's accurate now 
but still thinking about placing an order with Rapidleds for some blues to try and see how they make the tank look. also can throttle them all the way down and use them as moonlights


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

monkeyruler90 said:


> ahh, so if I have a pretty red/warm light and I add some violet/blue/royal blue LEDs it'll crisp it up the appearance?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah a colder light tends to give greens more pop but then it has the side effect of dulling reds somewhat.

Violets are special thing because they are barely visible to the naked eye but are strong in par and penetration. 400-420nm is also chloro a like the red spectrum.

I really like to use a lot of chloro a to push plant flowering. Also some plants change their normal appearance when you push a lot of red. For example it's possible to get blyxa japonica to get red tips by having lots and lots of red spectrum but then the tank looks like Mars. I found that replacing some of the red spectrum with violet made it more visibly appealing while still pushing tons and tons of red.

My next project might be a shallow cube I have in my garage and use tons and tons of t5 in short bursts. Talking 8 bulb ati powerdule t5 on a 24x24x16 tank just being bombarded with light with short photoperiods.

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