# A Hardscape for ADA Mini M. Updated "New Scape" 12/30



## SPECIAL||PLANS (May 27, 2009)

are plants going to be positioned secondary? the layout takes up a lot of tank space. and water count which will limit the amount of fish you can have.


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Well for plants I am not sure. I want this to be simply so I am thinking Mini Pelia, Willow or Peacock moss would look nice. There will be fish but that is not a priority of mine right now. I am mostly focused on the scape. Then maybe some Green tetras or other nano fish.


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## Strick (Apr 6, 2009)

Very nice. Truthfully, I liked the 1.0 version, too. Those rocks are great!


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

I love the wood and rock hardscape, thief. Aesthetically, it flows and the nature in which the pieces match affords a "born there" feel that I dig.
My vote goes for that one. No question.


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## SPECIAL||PLANS (May 27, 2009)

i guess when the plants take root the wood butting into the sand and the way the rocks just sit on the substrate will go away. right now i think the wood looks positioned unnaturally, esp the piece sitting between the two rock clusters. i do like the height though in favor of sloping the substrate, makes all the different sides equal in view potential.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The second one is better imo. The first one is nice, but there is no room for plants.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

So--?


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## blair (Feb 8, 2009)

Thief, I don't have much experience with mixed hardscapes, but you've done a nice job. However, my impression is that the tank feels a bit contrived (forced by the hand of man?). The reason for this is in the even numbers. You have two pieces of wood and two pieces of stone. The layout could definitely use the addition of a piece of wood or another rock. Personally, I really dig the branch reaching off on the right, so I'd try to keep that. I'd attempt to position an additional rock in the back left and see where it gets you. The footprint of this tank is small and you may have problems fitting it together in their without it being too cramped, but give it a shot. Remember, odd numbers are key


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Ugly Genius said:


> So--?


Sooo... its time for an update. I haven't done anything different to the scape yet. Now to comment on all your thoughts:

*Strick*- Thanks man it helps to hear what other people think of your scape!

*Ugly Genius*- I always appreciate your words. Often I find them to be what I actually feel. "Born Free" I interpret as just a small slice of nature, a "Fresh" slice of it that is.

*SPECIAL||PLANS*- I do agree with how the wood in between does look "Unnatural" but how else to fix this without completely taking the scape to another level? Fool around more with every yes... Actually this scape makes me feel like a UK scape. I've always found there scapes to be a bit unnatural yet a fresh sensation comes to mind when I look at them which is why I think I am going to continue with this scape.

*clwatkins10*- Thanks for the words. Actually what I noticed with the first scape is that I was trying to go for the exact same idea that UG here is going for in riverrun. 


Ugly Genius said:


> that it looked a bit like waves crashing on a shoreline or water flowing down a mountainside.


That is the impression I was trying to make the first try but I just didn't have it in me so I went for a more intricate scape. One that is pure, simple, and has a natural flow to it.

*blair*- Actually that is just what I was talking about before with UK scapes, that their tanks often (seiryu stone scapes) give the impression of a tank feels a bit contrived (forced by the hand of man?).
I do agree thought with there being only two stones it does feel this way. So I guess that is the next step for me. Finding a little more balance without taking the pure, simple, and flow it already has. I have quite A LOT of seiryu stone so we will see what happens.

So at the moment I am buying a Ehiem 2232 for this tank, and will be getting some Archaea lights for this too. Also I am building an ADA stand which is proving to be VERY difficult for me to get started after having the wood for a month now sitting in the garage. So I might create a thread for this in a couple day for Layout plans for a Mini M.

But wait that's not all some pictures:

Here's some moss that I found while hiking. It looks a lot different from your normal everyday moss from around here. Found on a small off roading track on a mountain. 

















We moved to a new house, Bigger and WAY WAY nicer!!! Here is my portion of the basement! Can you guess what I'm going to use that for?









Big box full o' ADA substrate.









Cabinets full of aquarium stuff instead of boxes beneath my bed! 









Here is some of the Huge Seiryu Stone pieces I got a couple months ago. Here is an example of a scape I made with it. 
























This piece alone weighs in at about
t 34 lbs!!! 









Ohh and last week I was working around the house all day for 3 days cutting down tree in our backyard, moving them, stripping them, and cutting them up even more. Anyways we had to move a bunch of fire wood piled up behind the shed and well we found this!!!

















Not sure what kind of spider it was but is was BIG and I would guess it to be a Wood Spider? From what I recall these things are poisonous.:eek5:


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## mgdmirage (Mar 30, 2009)

awesome scape! and i hope you smashed that spider! gave me goosebumps


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

*mgdmirage*- lol thats what my brother said and believe it or not I HATE spiders but for some reason when I see taranchula's, or gigantor spiders like this one they do not frieghten me! Actually I went back after getting the camera to go capture it and keep as a pet! (also to freak out my mom)


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## SPECIAL||PLANS (May 27, 2009)

I can see what your going for with the "unnatural" forced feel to the scape and i can understand what you're going for. keep in mind that a lot of maintenance will be required to keep that scape's message looking good. maybe you could check out some calder sculptures for inspiration. also, that spider looks big enough to be a decipticon.


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## blair (Feb 8, 2009)

I can always help you handle some of that seiryu  I have three tanks itching for it. Name the price!

Crazy spider :icon_eek: I would be worried it would get out at night if you decided to keep it. I could just see you waking up to this strange sensation on your face and finding it nesting in your cheek if it didn't try and eat you first! :hihi:


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I'm loving that second scape. Wanna give me some of your scaping materials they're brilliant and you've used them so well.


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## NanoDan (Oct 11, 2008)

looks like a wolf spider


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

After watching this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc I'm not sure what your spider would be called!

Now, for something more serious, I looked up a wood spider on google and the images I came across were not similar. That spider looks hella bad ass though! Very cool find!

As for fish choices, I would almost advise against it and just do shrimp. I'm not sure what the empty volume of water is, but with substrate, and that very cool hardscape layout, the over-all swimming area is going to be greatly reduced. Maybe you could get away with some live-bearer fry until they get too big- I see alot of people doing that lately.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

i agree with NanoDan


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## jinsei888 (Apr 20, 2009)

I enjoy two things very much (off topic, sort of):

- I enjoy the baseball wallpaper in the background.
- I also enjoy the fact that you have your hand right next to the spider that you recall as being poisonous.

That is all, haha! I think you've got a good scape layout btw and I think you might feel stronger about it once the tank gets filled with water.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Nice pile of stones  I assume that you bought it from AFA in a large quantity to up your chances of getting nice pieces? How big of a tank will you be using it in? If you have any left over I might buy it from you


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Wow A lot of people have posted here!!!

I forgot about this thread!

Well I will update maybe tomorrow with my NEW project and pics of what I did today.

Anyways to answer reply's!

*SPECIAL||PLANS*- Actually I see this tank as being an easy keeper. If I decide to set it up I think with plants being pretty much only mosses it would be monthly trims and since I have long cutting tools I can/ or should be able to work around the nooks and crannies.

*blair*- lol As much as I love sharing I don't think I will be giving these stones up until I'm dead!

*garuf*- thanks for the comment but as for there usage I have barely put a scratch on what I think these stones can potentially create. I still feel that I am not expressing these rocks to the full potential and I believe it may takes years until I harvest enough experience to do so.

*NanoDan*- lol As of now I've stopped worrying about the spider. It long gone now. But as much as I hate bugs I would welcome this fella back just to see her again ( did I just call the spider a "her.")

*SearunSimpson*- Actually this comment makes me think a little bit about my scapes and what they mean not to me but to the fish that I picture would go best in a tank. For this tank I am thinking a something like exlamation point rasboras. As for shrimp well thats what the tanks in the basement are for!

*fishman9809*- lol You guys just can't stop talking about that spider.

*jinsei888*- lol Actaully that was talken in my previous house. That was my bedroom. Since I had all the tanks in there we couldn't move anything around so I was stuck with my baby kitty boo boo wall paper. But it as been painted white after the move. :thumbsup:

Actually I haven't done anything with the tank yet. Still in the same spot just need more money and time to put into it. Infact I've been thinking of taking it down and just keeping the scape empty for a practice tank. Yes I said Practice tank as in when ever I feel I have a good idea and feeling about a scape I have in mind I can just go in there and try it out for fun. I what I am thinking is that one day maybe in the coming months or years I will finally get that scape and I picture in my head. Pristine nature at its best. Right now the picture in my head a foggy. I don't know what I want for this tank but sooner or later it will come to me.

*clwatkins10*- Actually I am a long returning customer of Steve and George down at AFA. They practically remember me since I've order so many scaping materials from them. I think I am on my 10th order for scaping material from them. I actually was able to get them to take some pictures of the stones I was buying and pick them out. Not the best pictures but I am MORE than satisfied with what I ended up with. Only thing is that I always want More. I have already around 120 lbs of seiryu stone and I still have plans to get a 100 more lbs soon enough. But with money running empty (Maybe $200 left) I am going to have to declare myself bankrupt! lol I'm not in the real world so it nothing serious with taxes, bills, and such. But I just need to sell some stuff on ebay to make some money. 

Well I haven't typed this much in a while which is why I will type more.

Today I recieved my 5lb Co2 Tank. Last Monday on the 10th I recieve a ADA 60-F tank with some manten stone and South East Asain Driftwood. 
Today I started designing the tank stand in which this tank will be housed upon. I have everything for this tank but a Co2 Regulator.

5 months ago I bought a JBJ Co2 Regulator with solenoid off ebay and ever since I have never been able to get my Co2 system going on my ADA 60-P. So after 3-4 months of tampering what am I doing wrong I sent it over to Orlando at GLA and after 3 weeks of testing he said the diaphram is basically junk and is unfixable. So there goes 80-90 down the drain. So here is my complaint to the company:


_Hello there,_



_ I am a past customer of yours in which I purchased a JBJ Dual Gauge CO2 Regulator w/ Solenoid + Bubble Counter + Built-in Check Valve and a New 2.5 lb Co2 Cylinder on the night of Mar-29-09 18:15 on Ebay. Now 5 months have passed, I have ran numerous testing to try and figure out the problem whether it was my set-up or the actual Regulator itself. The First time I set up the regulator with a complete set-up the 2.5 lb Co2 cylinder ran out within days of operation at 2 bubbles per second. Clearly something had to be wrong. So I went to refill the tank at my local supplier, Note: Each refill cost me $17.00. So this time I check and rechecked all the connections and this time ran the bubble counter at 1 Bubble per Second within 7 days the 2.5 lb Co2 Cylinder ran out of Co2. I followed u with this 2 more times making a total of 4 times spent refilling this Co2 Cylinder just to find out a week later that it is empty. Note: There is no specific amount of time a Co2 regulator but according to local hobbyists websites with experience most have there Co2 cylinder last from 5months to 10months for a 2.5 lb Co2 Cylinder._



_ So after the fourth time testing whats wrong and talking to professionals to help I decided to send it to a place who specializes in building Co2 Regulators for Aquarium use. Today I received a confirmation that this JBJ Dual Gauge CO2 Regulator w/ Solenoid + Bubble Counter + Built-in Check Valve has a problem with it and is making it inoperable for it's basic function. Basic rule is that The working pressure fluctuates and the needle valve does not work very well. Basically the biggest problem is that the diaphragm must be bad, or the actual valve seat which you cant get at because of the design, thus making the regulator unfixable. _



_ Now with my case out in the open and with you having a full story of what happened I would like to request my original payment back. My ebay account is: dcs315 _



_ Also I notice that as I look into my previous purchases I see that the two purchases of the Regulator and Co2 cylinder with your store have no identification number of purchase and say "private" underneath. This rises my suspicition that this help cover your self against these sort of cases with customer returns. _



_ So with this I would like to have a FULL RETURN of my money. Of course if wanted I will ship out the JBJ Dual Gauge CO2 Regulator w/ Solenoid + Bubble Counter + Built-in Check Valve to the designated address of your choice in order to get my full return of my money._



_ If not I will contact ebay services and carry this act out to the end until I recieve justice. It is certainly not the first time I've delt with crooked sellers so do expect a fight!_



_ Thankyou for listening and I expect a email within a couple days. After all you guys are such a big company by the looks off all the variety of things you sell. If you are in need of more information please contact me._



_ Thanks in advance._

_ ~ Willaim Robinson_


So that was my compaint letter to the people and this is what I recieved back: 

_Thank you for contacting us. For manufacturer flaws and such you will need to go through the manufacturer. This unit has a 6 month warranty from jbjlighting.com_

_6 MONTH LIMITED WARRANTY_
_JBJ LIGHTING FIXTURES, LAMPS, NANO CUBE AQUARIUMS, SP-POWERHEADS,_
_and CO2 REGULATORS_
_The above-mentioned JBJ aquarium products are warranted to the original purchaser against defective material and workmanship for 6 months from the date of original purchase. This warranty is valid only under the following conditions: additions, modifications, or changes made to the product by the purchaser and not by the manufacturer shall void this warranty. Damages brought on by abuse, misapplication, or mishandling also voids this warranty. Broken or cracked bulbs are not warranted and will not be replaced. This warranty is limited to the repair or replacement of the product at the discretion of the manufacturer. This warranty does not cover personal injury, property loss, including livestock or damage (direct, incidental, or consequential) arising out of use of this product. This warranty gives you specific rights and you may also have other rights, which may vary from state to state. This warranty card must be filled out completely and returned within (14) days from the date of purchase. Failure to do so will void this warranty. A proof of purchase from an authorized dealer must be provided when making a warranty claim. _


_Transworld Aquatics Enterprises, Inc._
_3730 Unit 6, West Century Blvd._
_Inglewood, CA 90308_

_Please call the manufacturers Customer Service lines at (310) 672-4021 or (310) 672-4099 between_
_9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time for warranty claims or technical questions_

_As for why our feedback says private this is to protect buyers info when they purchase some of our more adult products such as handheld vibrators and such and has no bearing on anything other than that._

_Thanks_
_Sam_


This is basically what I find frustrating that makes me want to eat these guys alive. Now I didn't send in that Warrentee slip that they say you have 14 days to return. But what I don't understand isn't a warrentee suppose to warentee something that is working? I mean this regulator was GARBAGE in the first place so I don't understand. I don't know all the nooks and cranny's to beable to fight this argument but I sure as hell know that If I tried or even wanted to these guys would be in court and I would be kicking there ass somehow. If you would like to help me win this argument please pm me and I will give you all the details I can. I just don't see how this is justice. How they can send me something that is false in the first place and yet I'm the one who can't do anything about it?

Anyways onto better things:

I have talked to my parents as to where to place the tank and we've decided that in the living room near the fireplace would look best. I already know what kind of scape I am looking to make but I don't know is I can scape the stone's to the best of my abilities to fit the picture in my mind.

Well thats enough tonight: Comment, suggestions anything is welcome. Maybe I can make this into a Hardscape journal with my Mini M scaping tank idea above!:thumbsup:

Good night
~ William Robinson

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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Well written! It seems like you have been doing some summer reading or something and it has impressed upon you excellent writing skills 
With that much stone you should have plenty extra to sell for a mini m?


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Well I yesterday I came up with another urge for scaping so I took my Mini M out and changed the previous scape and came out with this:


































If you notice I used the same too stones as the last scaped and the same 4 pieces of driftwood as the last scape which I found funny. I hanged two pieces off the side as I would like to accomplish a river theme look as I have been seeing done in a lot of scapes this year. Of course this isn't final layout as I still feel like I need to find a plant the would fill the front left corner (looking at the picture wise) where the big rock looks nice but then goes empty. Then I feel a little tweaking needs to be done on the right like making a small rock pile or repositioning the single stone differently.

Anyways let me know what you think. I would like to know what attract your eye. Too me the awesome stump looking piece along with the large seiryu stone go really well together as well as the pieces hanging into the tank but something is missing in that corner.

Any comment or criticism is welcome.


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

Looks good, more original than most. The hanging driftwood looks very out of place now, but I imagine with plants around it, the feel will be more natural. Having seen some of the AGA entries that used the same technique, it either looks really good, or really odd.

And reading your thread, I came up with a solution to your regulator issue. They want a warranty slip mailed in, you possess a giant poisonous spider... it seems obvious to me. 

In all seriousness, forget about the ebay vendor, and try calling JBJ directly.
Little advice - state your problem calmly, don't threaten. Don't mention lawyers, or court. Don't focus on where you got the product, focus on the product itself. Tell them you are a fan of the company and the product(this works wonders!), but feel that you are disappointed with the quality of the product you received. Ask for a replacement, and ask for them to cover shipping. Remain calm, and stay firm. If the person you speak with can't authorize a replacement, ask calmly to speak to someone who can. It might take an hour or two, but it's usually worth it.


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## snoop-a-loop (Oct 31, 2009)

The piece of driftwood that is floating in the corner looks like a pterodactyl that is about to attack another dinosaur haha. 

I agree with Indignation just give them a call directly, that is what I have found out in the past with any product is the best solution and if you get stuck as for someone who can help you with your problem.

Best of luck!


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## Heartnet (Sep 13, 2009)

Those driftwood pieces are just simply amazing. You're really lucky to have such an awesome LFS near you. 

It might look a bit unnatural now, but in the end only the plants will tell. Because from my experience, the hardscape is pretty much set from the beginning; however, the plants are the only variables in the scape that you cannot control. I've set up some scapes in the past that I thought would have been permanent, but some of the plant's growth pattern/rate really bothered me enough to change the entire scape again around it. It's really hard to tell how they will grow into the hardscape. Even with trimmings and etc, it does not come out the way you originally planned it in the scape. :help:

Regarding your issue with the faulty regulator, I agree with Indignation, ignore the ebay vendor and contact the manufacturer directly. Its obvious from the tone of voice in their email that they are trying to push responsibility onto the manufacturer, instead of offering you more solutions other than blaming you for not following proper warranty procedures. 

Some advice on dealing with customer representatives - speak to them in a firm way without being rude and lashing out in anger. Psychologically, I've learned that this does not really help both parties because you're all riled up and they will only become defensive in response, therefore making it a lose-lose situation. State your issue and at the end ask them how they can help you without giving them an easy chance to turn you down with some BS excuse. Don't ask close-ended questions. For example, instead of saying "Is there anything you can do to help me?" (they can easily just say no and be on their merry way) say something like "What can you do to help me?" (This denies them the chance to just say"no" and forces them to offer you solutions) If they still don't offer you anything, either they are not authorized to or are just @#$holes. In that case, ask for the manager or whoever they're superiors are and repeat: state your issue and ask them what they can do for you. Hope that helps.


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