# Trying plants again



## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

So I'll just mention my setup diy paintball co2, tank is a 130g 6x1x1.5ft, 2 circulation pumps, a fluval g6 canister filter and an ehiem 2217 canister, hydor 400w heater and some other heater as well, air pump pumping, using a bubble ladder right now approx 1per second I am dosing with flourish excel and flourish comprehensive plant supplements, I also have flourish tabs in the sand and I have regular play sand as substrate, my light is a aquatic life 54w x2 t5HO 48" fixture... If there is anything I should tweak please do let me know I only have 2 plants right now as I just put them in and they are quite expensive at 20$/ plant... I have had melting problems in the past
Plants I have are microsorum pteropus 'narrow' and cryptocoryne wendtii 'tropica'


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

Anyone have any input?


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

If you buying plants fro. Local fish stores they likely come from emersed growing conditions. Expect most plants to melt in that case.

You need a butt load of plants or you will not have success. Get packages from other hobbyist that have grown their plants in their tanks. You will have far better success.

You shouldn't run lights for longer than 6-7/hours till your plant mass increases substantially.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

I just don't want to spend a fortune on plants to have them all die


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Planting a few at a time will be alot harder on you and your wallet. Otherwise there simply isn't enough plant mass to outcompete algae and certain death. 

The only way to avoid this is with low low light conditions and ferns or similar plants with slow growth rates


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

If it's not one thing it's another 😑... I don't know anywhere to get bundles of plants for enough mass your talking about.... I bought 2 plants and was just under 40$.... I'd spend like 100-150 on a bundle of random plants but I can't find anything local... Located close to Edmonton Alberta canada


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## EChord (May 4, 2014)

The issue is that you're probably going to grow algae. Your setup is designed for a higher plant mass than what you actually have. As for the cost of plants - plant prices fluctuate quite a lot depending on not only species, but varietal, not to mention availability for your area. Large crypts are expensive, and while Java Fern isn't usually too pricey, I've seen large ones go for quite a bit at auction. What you should do is get some easy stems that will grow floating (like hornwort or Myriophyllum mattogrossense) and/or one of the larger floaters like frogbit or something similar to start using the resources you're providing before the algae steps in. Both the easy stems and floaters should be inexpensive.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

I was just going to put in an order to the planted guy(Canadian plant supplier) but won't ship until April 11... So maybe I'll just shut off co2 and turn back the lights in half? Until the new plants arrive was about 15 plants for 100$


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm about to hit order, are these 17 plants gonna be good for plant mass? Pretty much 100% new at plants so any and all tips/advise is welcome


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You might try the WTB/RAOK forum here to see if someone in Canada could give you a good price on a big batch of plants. I think it could be a problem if we tried mailing you plants from the USA. I was shocked at the cost of plants when I started looking for some new ones for my tank just a few weeks ago. Our hobby must be getting more popular?


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

Are these plants gonna be enough? Or still not enough?


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Not enough for a tank that size.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

Jesus.... Well i think I'm gonna place the order and see what happens.... My lights aren't anything crazy I'm only .8 watts per gallon


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## EChord (May 4, 2014)

I think the main thing is to stop dosing the ferts since you've only got the two plants in there. It sounded like you had multiple root tabs in place? You can take out all but one (two if it's a big crypt) since only the Crypt is really going to be utilizing it. Also I figure I should mention that in my personal experience, I find it better to put a root tab 2-3 inches away from the main part of the Crypt. I've had problems with root tabs killing my crypts if I put them in too close, and I normally do very well with Crypts. Don't know if anyone else has had that issue, but figured I'd pass that along.

I'd probably either stop the CO2 for the time being like you were saying, or just run it at a low level until there's more plants. With your tank depth, the lights might be okay as they are - not sure as I don't have experience with taller tanks. Would prefer to have someone else weigh in on that point.

Also take philipraposo1982 suggestion of asking on the WTB/ROAK board. You can also post on the Canada board and see if anyone can send you a big plant package. Often if you just take a big old package, you can get a good price on a lot of plants. Unfortunately shipping across the border is rife with potential problems, not the least of which is having the shipment destroyed if there's something not permitted in there.


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## RyRob (May 30, 2015)

A couple of things stand out to me. 
1) You say your tank is 130g but the dimensions of 6x1x1.5 feet equal roughly 70 gallons. 
2) You have a 48" fixture on a 72" long tank. You have a foot on each end not getting adequate light. 
3) I don't understand the comments about not having enough plants and having a guaranteed algae outbreak, you can run it like a massive grow out tank. Your tank is only running under 1 wpg of t5ho in a fixture that is too short. Having Co2 doesn't restrict a tank to only having super high light, all plants will appreciate the co2 no matter the light intensity. 

I don't think you have enough light to constitute your tank as "high-tech" and in my opinion I think your plant choices will work well in that respect. You can also raise your light fixture to create a larger area of light coverage and also if you find you have to much light in one spot. None of the plants you posted need a lot of light anyways. I think it will work out as long as you do your part on up-keep and monitor growth habits/patterns. Remember that rizome plants (anubias, ferns, etc.) to only plant the roots and leave the rizome exposed to the water clolumn or it will begin to rot. Frequent water changes will help keep potential algae at bay also. 

With the lower amount of light that you have and the addition of Co2, I wouldn't be to concerned with filling it up 100% from the start. Especially with the mostly slow growing, low demand plants in your list. I would be more concerned about establishing a good routine for your tank (photoperiod, co2 amount, water changes, your root tabs should be fine for now but you will observe the need for those or additional nutritional needs through plant growth). 

I'm not sure of the look you are trying to achieve but sparsely planted large tanks, imo, look good with a nice big show piece of driftwood accepted by the plants surrounded by light colored sand.


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## EChord (May 4, 2014)

My reasoning on the potential algae outbreak was due to all the resources being put into the tank - including fert dosing and root tabs - without enough plants to utilize them. If the plants don't use them, algae will. Of course if frequent water changes are being done, then that will pull out the excess, but that's a bit of a waste of the ferts and rather labor intensive to be doing for two plants imo. I also freely admit there are many ways of doing things and I could be wrong or at least may only have part of the story.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

I'll do new measurements on my tank today to double check I know it's a 130g.... As for the light that was the longest fixture they had.... I will stop dosing liquid ferts and check to see how far away I have my root tab, I ordered the plants will be here first week of April I will also post on the Canadian side of the forum... As for what I want my tank to look like.... I have no idea.... Kinda winging it... I have a few driftwood pieces lots and lots and LOTS of rock I have accumulated over 10 years...


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

6x2x1.5


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

This is what I have so far not much but I just changed out my substrate 2 weeks ago to sand


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## Viclynmastiff (Mar 28, 2016)

Paint the back or put something up you will loose your light 


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## Viclynmastiff (Mar 28, 2016)

RyRob said:


> A couple of things stand out to me.
> 1) You say your tank is 130g but the dimensions of 6x1x1.5 feet equal roughly 70 gallons.
> 2) You have a 48" fixture on a 72" long tank. You have a foot on each end not getting adequate light.
> 3) I don't understand the comments about not having enough plants and having a guaranteed algae outbreak, you can run it like a massive grow out tank. Your tank is only running under 1 wpg of t5ho in a fixture that is too short. Having Co2 doesn't restrict a tank to only having super high light, all plants will appreciate the co2 no matter the light intensity.
> ...




I totally agree with you


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## cininohio (Jan 13, 2016)

I got plant packages on ebay and aquabid really cheap. Check that out.


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## cininohio (Jan 13, 2016)

My craigslist tanks. Bought a few plant packages and now all I do is move things from tank to tank. Cost of plants, less than $100. I just started 6 months ago.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

Wow your tank looks good man!! My plants came in from www.theplantguy.org today so I went ahead and did some planting and here is how it turned out


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## ron444 (Apr 2, 2016)

Do you have access to local waters, that have live plants? load up on locals, then replace them with the pretties you want, as you can afford them ?


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

ron444 said:


> Do you have access to local waters, that have live plants? load up on locals, then replace them with the pretties you want, as you can afford them ?


Nothing local here that can survive in 78 water.... All cold water... I bought 100$ worth from theplantguy.org and I'm seeing some nice growth the sag has baby plants coming up, Amazon swords have their new submersed growth starting to come through... Hygro clippings are growing taller.... The crypt I haven't seen much growth and have been in the tank longer along with the microsorum... Also have a bunch of algae starting on the back glass of the tank.... And I picked up 3 clown loaches plan on maybe 2-3 more


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## cininohio (Jan 13, 2016)

gaga43 said:


> Wow your tank looks good man!! My plants came in from Welcome to The PlantGuy - Canadian Aquarium plants today so I went ahead and did some planting and here is how it turned out


Looks great. It is so fun to see them grow in. Keep us updated. I love to see progress.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

Starting to see the crypt sprout baby leaves!!! Still no growth on the microsorum


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## EChord (May 4, 2014)

Looking good! 

Crypts have an adjustment period, but once they're happy and adjusted, they usually do very well and will eventually send out runners giving you baby plants. The plants you chose will fill in well with a bit of time, so the tank will look pretty full once they get going. The amazons in particular will get quite large, and you actually have the space for them to grow to their full potential. They'll be amazing!


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm actually having issues with my swords right now


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## EChord (May 4, 2014)

Did you put root tabs on the swords? They're pretty heavy feeders.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes I have!!! I think my problem is no macros.... Ordered some the other day


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## EChord (May 4, 2014)

Macros are prob right. I sometimes forget that with low light since I tend to have a higher bioload and only need to add them on my high light setup.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

So I finally received my 500g of micro+macro+trace dry ferts to mix up... Did so according to the instructions and have been dosing as specified for 2 days now but these are photos of my tank..... Water went cloudy when I cleaned my tank and there are large amounts of algae mostly black on my crypt and long "hairy" stuff any idea on what I should do or keep dosing these ferts for 2 weeks and see what happens... I just want clear water and healthy plants... I also got a co2 reactor still need to get a proper regulator and a ph controller anyways here are some pictures input is WELCOME 
This is the return pipe

This seems to be my only sword that's doing ok I also added a root tabs under the plants

This is some of the hair stuff and the black on the crypts


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## akwi (Aug 4, 2014)

I would ease back on the Fert dosing until the co2 is in place and running. 

Little pinholes in leaves like that signify potassium deficiency however. What are the ratios you are dosing your macros in? Or how many gram of each and how often?

How many hours are lights on at this time?


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

akwi said:


> I would ease back on the Fert dosing until the co2 is in place and running.
> 
> Little pinholes in leaves like that signify potassium deficiency however. What are the ratios you are dosing your macros in? Or how many gram of each and how often?
> 
> ...


It's premixed from an online company.... Was full dosing... I'm half dosing now and lights were at 12 but are now at 7


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

A note about Amazon Swords - The ones I bought at Petsmart were (I believe) grown immersed rather than submersed so after planting under water, the outside leaves yellow, brown and/or develop holes, while new leaves begin to grow just fine. Just be patient and trim any outer leaves that brown back to the stem. (I think they're grown this way (leaves out of water) to achieve the fastest growth in the least amount of time).

Also, low, medium, high tech all requires balance and balance can either be easy or very elusive. By 'balance' I refer to the numerous variables in the planted tank...the amount of light, the amount of chemical ferts, the amount of organic ferts relative to bio-load, filter and tank maintenance relative to the number and type of plants.

Personally, I'm leaning towards low tech, leveraging as much natural organic fertilization as possible and only adding chems as absolutely needed. I feel this is better for the fish. It seems to me that many get so focused on plants and rapid plant growth they almost forget it's a FISH tank. For me, the fish are the focus and the plants merely enhance their environment (and the display) and make for purer water for them. Oh, I want to plants to be healthy and thrive, but I don't want rapid growth at the expense of the health and well being of the fish.
In any case, I feel the key is balance - if you're gonna blast high light and co2, adjust ferts accordingly while also taking into account the organic inputs.


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

Since I started half dosing and 7hr light period the back of my tank has went from solid algae to this


I'm also seeing a lot more growth in my plants!!!!


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## gaga43 (Oct 14, 2010)

starting to see some yellowing at the tips of my older amazon sword growth.... should i up the ferts a little bit? i was dosing 2.5 cap fulls aprox (63ML) off the start with 12hr photoperiod... changed to 7 hr photo period and 1 cap ful (25ML)


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