# Flow meters for our pressurized co2 system



## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

some pictures.

In picture are Matheson, Brooks, Porter/Parker, cole palmer/aalborg high precision model flowmeters. They are precise then the one in video above, because these are with high precision cartridges metering valves. 









need to convert to co2 volume under different pressure .... 











and I will use this one, for my planted tank.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Interesting.

I started a thread about the Dwyer flow meters back in 2015, and there are quite a few using them here now.

What would be the advantage of something like flow meter in the video above.......and what is the approximate cost?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

now I know that was you first showed the others the flowmeter, hat off to you .

the different brand of high precision flowmeters are about $200 or more a piece, if with high precision cartridge metering valve, cost much more, but evilbay is still the virgin land of these liquidated or used flow meters, you can grab them as low as $20 a piece, same situation as back in 2011, metering valves were abundant and cheap....

get a couple good one, and pass the info around to fellow friend hobbyists, so they will have them too, before the evilbay dry up.


these high precision flowmeters open a whole new method injecting co2, because the exact injected co2 flow rate is known, so the total volume, then added PPM can be calculated.

*no bubble counter or Ph monitor needed.*

15 SCCM injection for a little bit more than two hours wll rise concentration of co2 in 50G water by 20ppm.... get the idea?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Bettatail said:


> these high precision flowmeters open a whole new method injecting co2, because the exact injected co2 flow rate is known, so the total volume, then added PPM can be calculated.
> 
> *no bubble counter or Ph monitor needed.*
> 
> 15 SCCM injection for a little bit more than two hours wll rise concentration of co2 in 50G water by 20ppm.... get the idea?


I get that but IMO it's not that simple.

When I went from high KH softened well water to very low KH RO water, my CO2 consumption rate changed as well. 

And then you have different methods of diffusion, different levels of surface agitation.....different levels of everything.

IME, the best feature of using a flow meter is fine tuning relative CO2 flow. While knowing absolute values would be interesting, I don't think that would translate well from one tank to another.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

In other words you can get these other options cheaper used because hobbyist don't know to buy them yet because everyone just uses Dwyer. 

You had me at cheap.

I picked up that meter on e bay a few minutes ago. I've been in need of a good flow meter for a while now.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

minorhero said:


> In other words you can get these other options cheaper used because hobbyist don't know to buy them yet because everyone just uses Dwyer.
> 
> You had me at cheap.
> 
> I picked up that meter on e bay a few minutes ago. I've been in need of a good flow meter for a while now.


There is something that anyone who is considering purchasing a used flow meter should be aware of.

There are loads of different flow meters out there, and a tiny percentage have the scale to meet our needs. Many are rated at SCFH.....that is standard cubic feet per hour. We are dealing with cubic centimeters per minute. In flow meter terms, a very, very low flow rate.

So just saying be sure to do the math, because the majority are useless for our purposes. We have a very particular use and flow rate, so make sure you know what you are getting.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Greggz said:


> minorhero said:
> 
> 
> > In other words you can get these other options cheaper used because hobbyist don't know to buy them yet because everyone just uses Dwyer.
> ...


I agree, this has been my problem. I have felt there must be meters out there of use to us but have been wary of committing. I already bought one that is useless (worked with water not air) so when someone says there is a cheap alternative they have already tried?? Well I am all about it.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

minorhero said:


> I agree, this has been my problem. I have felt there must be meters out there of use to us but have been wary of committing. I already bought one that is useless (worked with water not air) so when someone says there is a cheap alternative they have already tried?? Well I am all about it.



most work w/ both but the range is the issue...Devil is always in the details..




> one bubble per second that it .00086 cubic inches per second, or *.052 cubic inches per minute*. One cubic inch is 16.39 cubic centimeters. So, *one bubble per second is about .85 cc per minute*. And, I don't think gas flow meters can register that low a flow rate.
> 
> You can consider this flow rate to be sccm, standard cubic centimeters per minute, since the gas is essentially at standard atmospheric pressure.



The Cole Parmer Aalborg ect have interchangeable floats soo one can tailor the range to the needs. 

Lightest is glass, then sapphire, stainless steel, tantalium, carboloy..


Then there is the valve precision.. or none if you have your own..


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Greggz said:


> There is something that anyone who is considering purchasing a used flow meter should be aware of.
> 
> There are loads of different flow meters out there, and a tiny percentage have the scale to meet our needs. Many are rated at SCFH.....that is standard cubic feet per hour. We are dealing with cubic centimeters per minute. In flow meter terms, a very, very low flow rate.
> 
> So just saying be sure to do the math, because the majority are useless for our purposes. We have a very particular use and flow rate, so make sure you know what you are getting.


agree, most of the flowmeters are not for our co2 application, that is why they are rare and no one pay much attention to the flowmeter for our planted tank co2 injection. I have to spend months to do the research, and got a series of useful and not for our planted tank flowmeters. 

finally, now this is the thread to show the fellow hobbyists what work and what not.

check the flow tube model number under different major brands in the metering valve selection thread, if still in doubt, there is always PDF to check.



jeffkrol said:


> most work w/ both but the range is the issue...Devil is always in the details..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



from what I know, bubble size are different in different media, different pressure, also the size is dynamic base on the actual flow rate(fast the bigger). 
A bubble double in diameter is 8 times the original volume, and there are many factor contribute to size.

you probably don't see the detail from the video in the first post, bubbles in that inline counter did register as the floating ball goes up, and I did some bubble counting before I took the video, it is about 2 bubbles/second on scale 10.0, which is 2.99sccm air(convert to co2 is 2.99X0.81=2.42sccm), and at scale 50.0 is 4 bubbles per second(7.77sccm airX 0.81= 6.29 sccm CO2). 6.29sccm/2.42sccm= 2.6 , from scale 10.0 to 50.0 the co2 flow rate has increased 
2.6 times, but bubble rate only double, because at scale 50.0 the bubbles are larger.



minorhero said:


> I agree, this has been my problem. I have felt there must be meters out there of use to us but have been wary of committing. I already bought one that is useless (worked with water not air) so when someone says there is a cheap alternative they have already tried?? Well I am all about it.


if don't know what are these and what to get, cheap or expensive are not really matter, these flowmeters just have nothing to do with us...
you just got yourself a flow meter about $250, this morning:laugh2:


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

I think most people reading this thread are confusing right now, too much unfamiliar concepts and information, feeling overwhelmed....
don't worry, same thing happened to me months ago, took me a while to understand and find out the right flowmeters for our planted tank co2 injection


first, the flowmeter tube models/number in the metering valve selection thread are the low flow capacity from different major industrial brands, they are most often equipped with the high precision metering valve cartridges, if not, the valves should be "normal" low flow control needle valves.
always check the tube number, see if it is the low flow capacity glass tube.

second, the floating ball, there are glass(black), sapphire(red), stainless steel, Carboloy(brown), Tantalum(gray metal), listing from light to heavy because of density, and lighter the floating ball the better low flow rate monitoring capacity. 
check PDF for max flow rate of different floating ball material on specific glass tubes.

the Dwyer RMA 150/151 are slightly off the range only if they are for large planted tank, but they are actually the most affordable flowmeters of all the listed model with the right flow tube number, in the metering valve selection thread.
these high precision flow meters are not cheap, they are cheap because not many people know they can be used in co2 low flow volume control.

if more questions, let me know.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> I think most people reading this thread are confusing right now, too much unfamiliar concepts and information, feeling overwhelmed....



Well because it is... 




Bettatail said:


> first, the flowmeter tube models/number in the metering valve selection thread are the low float capacity from different major industrial brands, they are most often equipped with the high precision metering valve cartridges, if not, the valves should be "normal" low flow control needle valves.
> always check the tube number, see if it is the low float capacity glass tube.
> 
> second, the floating ball, there are glass(black), sapphire(red), stainless steel, Carboloy(brown), Tantalum(gray metal), listing from light to heavy because of density, and lighter the floating ball the lower the flow rate monitoring capacity.
> check PDF for max flow rate of different floating ball material on specific glass tubes.



I rest my case.. 




Bettatail said:


> the Dwyer RMA 150/151 are slightly off the range only if they are for large planted tank


Technically that has been the "standard operating procedure" for awhile..If you can't count the bubbles switch to flowmeter.. 

If you want a flowmeter for low flow tanks .. countable bubble rate.. see confusion above.. 


A lot of those precision aalborgs (and clones/relabeled) w/ the correct tube diameter have stainless steel floats as standard at least in my experience.. putting them at the low range of usefulness for a few bubbles /sec


One has to estimate expected flow rate before determining "the best" tube/float combination.
Then the precision of delivery via metering valve and not getting one too small (won't match expected flow) or too large (low precision).
This isn't meant to scare people since even hit/miss can work but to identify all aspects of this decision.
Chart below gives an example of this.









Max flow rates by tube and float size. Still need a valve or use valveless w/ your own metering valve.
sorry, smaller than anticipated. see pdf:
http://www.aalborg.com/images/file_to_download/en_Aalborg_EM20200113_Technical_Information.pdf

bubble counters, though horribly imprecise and less functional at times have really no limit besides the system orifices.. i.e max delivery of the metering valve.
Flowmeters have restrictions on both the tube and the valve..


As a personal note: Aalborg has been more than generous providing alternate floats and Cole/Parmer sells some as well.
Putting them in and not losing one or getting it dirty is sometimes a challenge..
YMMV.


.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

jeff, the chart only show the *maximum* flow monitoring capacity of specific tubes, the calibration data are in independent pages for specific tube, floating ball material, and pressure setting.
alway pick tube number and ball material(glass is best) first if want to find the right flowmeter for co2 flow rate monitoring, 
I think any tube number and floating ball material combo with max flow monitoring capacity under 10Litter/hour of air flow rate, is good for our use.









and for aalborg/cole palmer flowmeters, the high precision interchangeable cartridges are often mark with the number on top of the valve cap, 1, 2, 3, or MFV 1, MFV 2, MFV 3, are really good, if the number are in 4-6 range, not that good for us to dial in the co2 flow rate. also, if the number mark on the valve cap is 7, 8, or 9, pick 7, because from 7 to 9, the valves are "normal" needle valve, the number 7 is the low flow control needle valve.

some others are good too, brooks instrument(sho-rate flowmeter), omega, matheson,...

cole palmer official website is rather confusing if you want to find the detail spec of the low flow flowmeters. compare to cole palmer, aalborg(cole palmer and aalborg are the same) is better, then the brooks instruments, and the best is matheson official website, parker/porter website has the information hiding, but once locate the right page, a full list of calibration data will appears.


I don't want you to order the flowmeters from aalborg/cole palmer, they are expensive, but try your luck on evilbay is a good way to find one, but need to make sure it is the right one.

check the below chart, it is the matheson FM1050 flowmeter with tube 601, flow rate data for co2. the range of flow rate covers from single digit to hundred sccm, which means the co2 flow rate can be precisely control and monitor for our small to very large planted tank.
I will test this flowmeter(FM1050, 601 tube), and show you the result, I have one but not yet hook it up to the co2 system.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> jeff, the chart only show the *maximum* flow monitoring capacity of specific tubes, the calibration data are in independent pages for specific tube, floating ball material, and pressure setting.
> alway pick tube number and ball material(glass is best) first if want to find the right flowmeter for co2 flow rate monitoring,
> I think any tube number and floating ball material combo with max flow monitoring capacity under 10Litter/hour of air flow rate, is good for our use.
> 
> ...



Yea I know that but it determines the range of the tube and at what end of the scale you are using..
If you have flow rate (est.) of "6" and you have a max pressure of "140" w/ 140 graduated you are functioning at the low end of the scale.
Ideally one wants mid range since most things work best that way.. 


Secondly the valve matters.. as to going from low to shooting the ball to the top w/ a 1/4 turn type thing..


Nit picky..

Like as you noted above..
042-15G(lass)w/ a max of 22.8..
If you are working around 6 that puts you 1/4 of scale.
W/ SS you are running 1/10 of scale..coupled w/ a high flow metering valve and your err "precision" drops a lot.

so ideally one need to know the tube, and the float, and the metering valve..and expected range.
In an IDEAL world..


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

that is correct, the tube number and floating ball material are important to choose the flowmeter, and the valve too....
the *exact* co2 flow volume can be monitored, that is why these metering valve are so precise, and expensive...

glad that you grab the idea, now if you want one for your co2 system, but don't want to put much time into flipping over the pdf files, let me know, I will show you the good ones from evilbay.


I think next step for co2 pressurized system upgrade is to play with a mass flow controller....


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> that is correct, the tube number and floating ball material are important to choose the flowmeter, and the valve too....
> the *exact* co2 flow volume can be monitored, that is why these metering valve are so precise, and expensive...
> 
> glad that you grab the idea, now if you want one for your co2 system, but don't want to put much time into flipping over the pdf files, let me know, I will show you the good ones from evilbay.
> ...


Thanks but own 2 w/ extra floats in glass, sapphire and stainless steel..32-41 tubes..
One w/ a "1" one w/ a "2".. sadly the "1" cost me $44 but NIB 
Both came w/ SS floats and not use-able "for me" as they were. 
* Palmer Instrument Flowmeter 03227-06 NEW*

Item price USD 43.99 Quantity 1


There were people here who already went down that road w/ the Mass Flow Controllers..
Actually looking at current prices not a bad time to go.. did see one calibrated for CO2 for about $120.

Oh as to their use.. It was on my 40B and since I only right or wrong, dribble CO2 in the glass or sapph ball were the only ones use-able.

Also, and as to a personality quirk, I still ran a bubble counter ..

for the sake of this discussion..



> doesn't mean much when I am near 50 cc/min.


so people could fun from <6 to over 50 cc/min.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

jeff, are you sure that the *Palmer Instrument Flowmeter 03227-06 NEW* is a 032 tube number flow meter? I think the "03227-06" is not the tube number, please check the tube number on your flowmeter, it may be a 052 or some other tube, much larger flow rate model.

cole palmer website and their product description is really confusing. anyway, you still have Porter, Matheson, and brooks if the right models from cole palmer are difficult to identify.

add:
the tube number is located on the upper left of the glass tube.
I own two mass flow meters from 2011, all working unit, one is 50cc/m, another is 100cc/m, but they are for air and N2, I don't know if I can find the calibration chart to use them for co2, or there is no calibration data available.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Bettatail said:


> first of all, you are the lucky one to see this post, there is a porter flowmeter same as the one in video on evilbay, if need one, grab one, they are only a fraction of their original price, but don't be greedy, there are other hobbyists who need it too. Evilbay search key word: PORTER INSTRUMENTS B-125-6
> 
> The full list of high precision flowmeters can be found in the metering valve selection thread.
> metering valve/flowmeter selection thread.



I find the above pretty interesting :grin2:
I ended up purchasing one of the Porter B-125-6 flow meters off evilbay. Had some random issue and had to contact the seller. His response was priceless...


Thanks for the message. I’m on vacation right now so I can’t really look into my seller account to see the payment status. How many did you purchase? I sold six of these yesterday to various buyers which was really odd as I haven’t sold one of these in at least a year now.


Thanks!

Mike Carpenter
West Michigan Industrial Surplus


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Immortal1 said:


> I find the above pretty interesting :grin2:
> I ended up purchasing one of the Porter B-125-6 flow meters off evilbay. Had some random issue and had to contact the seller. His response was priceless...
> 
> 
> ...



he should pay me for helping selling these $250 original price flowmeters, lol

looks like everyone does the right thing.

There are two more listings of the same flowmeter, search keyword "porter b-125-6"


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> jeff, are you sure that the *Palmer Instrument Flowmeter 03227-06 NEW* is a 032 tube number flow meter? I think the "03227-06" is not the tube number, please check the tube number on your flowmeter, it may be a 052 or some other tube, much larger flow rate model.



the 32-41 is etched in the tube.. On the auction it was visible..
Technically, as configured it would be this 150mm tube:
032-41-ST *138.3 smL/min AIR*.....0.293scf/min....


153smL/min 0.324scf/min CO2...
pg5
http://www.aalborg.com/images/file_to_download/en_Aalborg_EM20200113_Technical_Information.pdf


Aalborg rotameters are sold under at least 3 names if not more..


cole/Parmer numbers are weird.. I'd not buy one unless I saw the Aalborg tube #..
As a side note.. w/ a glass float you can register 1-2 BPS at about "10-20" units on the tube.. 

porter b-125-6.. *102mL/min AIR *w/ a stain. steel float.
https://www.parker.com/literature/Models 65 & 150 FM-1058 pp. 4-7.pdf

"MY" issue w/ the Porters is no idea which metering valve is attached w/ out a complete model #..
Now that said any should work..by design w/ the smaller tubes.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

I guess 150cc/m max is too much on cole flowmeter, have you checked with Gregg or others, they have large tank need more co2 injection, the flowmeters you have look ok for them.

I think 1-2 bubble/second register on higher scale reading is possible, on matheson FM1050 flowmeter with 600 or 610A tubes.


add: I will try the cole flowmeters, have three 032 and 042 tube model, still waiting to be tested.

the porter flowmeter by default is low flow control needle valves on the low flow tubes, there is no marking on these needle valves, but if you see a O, 1, 2, or 3 number on the cap of the valve, that is a low flow high precsion HR metering valve, smaller the number lower the flow. avoid 4, 5 ,6, they are the same high precsion cartridge metering valve but lower flow range is slightly off for our co2 application.

the HR metering valve with a valve body is expensive , and much more if you want a fancy vernier turn counter handle.










I showed this picture in the previous post, now again
it is the parker HR 0 series metering valve with a parker/porter b-125-6 tube flow meter


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> I guess 150cc/m max is too much on cole flowmeter, have you checked with Gregg or others, they have large tank need more co2 injection, the flowmeters you have look ok for them.
> 
> I think 1-2 bubble/second register on higher scale reading is possible, on matheson FM1050 flowmeter with 600 or 610A tubes.
> 
> ...


Actually w/ the sapphire or glass float it's just fine..


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Immortal1 said:


> Thanks for the message. I’m on vacation right now so I can’t really look into my seller account to see the payment status. How many did you purchase? I sold six of these yesterday to various buyers which was really odd as I haven’t sold one of these in at least a year now.


That's funny!

Makes me wonder how many Dwyers have been sold over the years? 

I never know if anyone is reading much of this drivel....turns out they are!!:grin2:


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

@Bettatail , thanks for the great thread, very thorough and easy to follow. I did purchase two of the flow meters off listed on ??bay, I did not realize you were the seller. Can you tell me what the float material is made of?

FWIW, I have the Parker HR0 with the veneer turn counter also. It's very nice, easy to use, and I find the turn counter nice to be able to adjust to a defined number. It's not necessary for most people, but I tend to be very detailed so I like the precision. I purchased it from flowerfishs here on TPT.

I'm looking forward to the Porter flow meter as my Dwyer Flow meter has been a little unreliable for the flow. I purchased a new one last year as my first one was used and tended to move around, and the new one is reading way to low to provide any sense of accuracy. I've been wanting to switch to another vendor but it's hard to tell which ones are good for our application, but your thread here help that along greatly.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Ken Keating1 said:


> @Bettatail , thanks for the great thread, very thorough and easy to follow. I did purchase two of the flow meters off listed on ??bay, I did not realize you were the seller. Can you tell me what the float material is made of?
> 
> FWIW, I have the Parker HR0 with the veneer turn counter also. It's very nice, easy to use, and I find the turn counter nice to be able to adjust to a defined number. It's not necessary for most people, but I tend to be very detailed so I like the precision. I purchased it from flowerfishs here on TPT.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the Porter flow meter as my Dwyer Flow meter has been a little unreliable for the flow. I purchased a new one last year as my first one was used and tended to move around, and the new one isreading way to low to provide any sense of accuracy. I been wanting to switch to another vendor but it's hard to tell which ones are good for our application, but you thread here help that along greatly.


I am not the seller....
I did buy several pieces from another seller, they are for the testing, give to friends(flowerfish already got two from me) and to build co2 systems.

The two you get from the evilbay should be the glass floating balls. it is easy to tell because they are black, I think the industrial standard as glass floating ball are black .
The parker HR 0 series metering valves, are virtually distinct from evilbay, and I believe only a single digit number planted tank hobbyists have them on their co2 systems, you are the lucky owner.


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## KayakJimW (Aug 12, 2016)

Immortal1 said:


> I find the above pretty interesting :grin2:
> I ended up purchasing one of the Porter B-125-6 flow meters off evilbay. Had some random issue and had to contact the seller. His response was priceless...
> 
> 
> ...


Haha, I grabbed one too. That must've been a real head scratcher for the seller!, various purchases from multiple states on the same day lol

Thanks @Bettatail for the tip, can't wait to try it out


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Bettatail said:


> I am not the seller....
> I did buy several pieces from another seller, they are for the testing, give to friends(flowerfish already got two from me) and to build co2 systems.
> 
> The two you get from the evilbay should be the glass floating balls. it is easy to tell because they are black, I think the industrial standard as glass floating ball are black .
> The parker HR 0 series metering valves, are virtually distinct from evilbay, and I believe only a single digit number planted tank hobbyists have them on their co2 systems, you are the lucky owner.


Mine arrived today - hopefully will have time tonite to hook it up and verify that the Flowmeter range is adequate for the flow that I am sending to the tank. So far seems to be a nice find.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Holy smokes, I got my Porter flowmeter a few minutes ago and it is at least an order of magnitude better then the dwyer I have now. I am shocked with how good it is. The only issue I have with it is that the scale only goes to 15. I assume this is in cc/min so it will be great for my 40 gallon but won't go well with my 120 gallon down the road. That said, I regret nothing. What a great upgrade.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

minorhero said:


> The only issue I have with it is that the scale only goes to 15. I assume this is in cc/min so it will be great for my 40 gallon but won't go well with my 120 gallon down the road. That said, I regret nothing. What a great upgrade.



most are unit-less..
Find the Tube # and float..


https://www.parker.com/literature/Models 65 & 150 FM-1058 pp. 4-7.pdf

Above pic of the b-125-6 w/ assumed steel ball, though it sort of looks more like black glass..
Max flow 102cc/min Air..CO2 is slightly different..


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Bettatail said:


> There are two more listings of the same flowmeter, search keyword "porter b-125-6"


If you can find a Porter b-125-6, how do you determine the cc/min scale it would provide?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Greggz said:


> If you can find a Porter b-125-6, how do you determine the cc/min scale it would provide?


By knowing which float is in it... 









Couple of things.. Not sure how linear it is and CO2 is different


Multiply max out by 1.17..

0-119cc/min for stainless steel and full scale (0-15).. at STP..

You would have to calibrate it to get more exact readings.. Inverted graduate like..


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> minorhero said:
> 
> 
> > The only issue I have with it is that the scale only goes to 15. I assume this is in cc/min so it will be great for my 40 gallon but won't go well with my 120 gallon down the road. That said, I regret nothing. What a great upgrade.
> ...


Awesome!! Wow this is great. I just need to change out the ball then.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> By knowing which float is in it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Jeff.

Can you purchase the floats to get a scale to your needs?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

(Quietly tells myself that the Dwyer coupled with pH controller that I have work just fine...)

Haha!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> most are unit-less..
> Find the Tube # and float..
> 
> 
> ...


The one that I got has the black glass ball in it. The Porter site has a nice .pdf file that gives the flow ratings of each float in each model.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

@minorhero, @Immortal1, @KayakJimW:

My flowmeters arrived but 1/8" NPT fittings aren't fitting, it appears the threads are smaller than 1/8". Have you determined what fits?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Ken Keating1 said:


> @minorhero, @Immortal1, @KayakJimW:
> 
> My flowmeters arrived but 1/8" NPT fittings aren't fitting, it appears the threads are smaller than 1/8". Have you determined what fits?


Haven't looked up the size but......it's obvious but have to ask.....using Teflon tape?


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Ken Keating1 said:


> @minorhero, @Immortal1, @KayakJimW:
> 
> My flowmeters arrived but 1/8" NPT fittings aren't fitting, it appears the threads are smaller than 1/8". Have you determined what fits?


I haven't as of yet. They looked smaller to me as well. Was going to use a thread finder later. Likely metric though.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

minorhero said:


> I haven't as of yet. They looked smaller to me as well. Was going to use a thread finder later. Likely metric though.


Nobody bother w/ th pdf???


https://www.parker.com/literature/Models 65 & 150 FM-1058 pp. 4-7.pdf





> Connections - Standard: 1/8" female NPT threadedadaptors with locknuts for front panel mounting. Optional: 1/8"compression fitting;1/4" compression fitting; 1/4" NPT female;1/4" I.D. Hose



If not one of those maybe metric british or japanese but seems unlikely..

BTW for ANYONE getting an Aalborg,Cole,ect w/ 32-41 tube or like and needs lower flow max there is a seller on evil bay w/ some for sale w/ the glass float.. Orig price is high but takes offers.. 
Though as mentioned some co's will give you one if asked nicely.. the float.. not the tube..


----------



## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Ken Keating1 said:


> @*minorhero*, @*Immortal1*, @*KayakJimW*:
> 
> My flowmeters arrived but 1/8" NPT fittings aren't fitting, it appears the threads are smaller than 1/8". Have you determined what fits?


Definitely not 1/8" NPT. Was really hoping to test it out tonite :frown2:


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Greggz said:


> Haven't looked up the size but......it's obvious but have to ask.....using Teflon tape?


No teflon tape, but the threads are definitely smaller. 



jeffkrol said:


> Nobody bother w/ th pdf???


I have the pdf and I assumed it was correct before I purchased as the xbay listing did not list a size. But it's not what's listed.

My next step was taking it down to the local hardware store where they have trays and trays of oddball sizes.

Maybe there's a reason the prices were so low on the listing!!!


----------



## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Ken Keating1 said:


> No teflon tape, but the threads are definitely smaller.


Again, haven't checked the size, but I would try it with the tape if you have it.

NPT threads can easily seem not to fit without it. Then again I could be completely wrong and the sizes are off.


----------



## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

OK, I took a guess that it may take a 1/16" NPS fitting so I ordered two 1/8" female to 1/16" male fittings on Amazon and they're supposed to be here tomorrow.

Darn impatience, I hate getting a new toy and not being able to immediately play with it!!!


----------



## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

I have a couple of the Dwyer RMA-151-SSVs. My 20 and 36 gallon tanks only run <10-15cc/min so far. I ordered one of these Porters from the bay for less than half what I paid for each of those. It may come in handy for the QT when I get new plants in.

Thanks for the tip!


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

minorhero said:


> Holy smokes, I got my Porter flowmeter a few minutes ago and it is at least an order of magnitude better then the dwyer I have now. I am shocked with how good it is. The only issue I have with it is that the scale only goes to 15. I assume this is in cc/min so it will be great for my 40 gallon but won't go well with my 120 gallon down the road. That said, I regret nothing. What a great upgrade.





Greggz said:


> If you can find a Porter b-125-6, how do you determine the cc/min scale it would provide?


make sure you check the air flow rate calibration chart in the first post, and convert to co2 flow rate by multiply the air to co2 conversion factor.

dwyer give 0.71, matheson give 0.81, ....

I am going to find/calculate the conversion factor for porter. give me some time.



add:
it took a while to read through the posts, 
these aluminium frame porter flowmeters are default 1/8 NPT ports, but since they are used, I guess whoever disassembled these flowmeters, took out the rear connection fittings(the protruding hex with outter threads black fitting on inlet and outlet). see picture.

I think it is 1/8 BSPP thread, but not sure, I will find out the exact thread/port size on the flowmeter tomorrow, I don't have the flowmeter or the measuring gauge right now, can't give the answer tonight.










BTW, 
1. the glass tube inside can be reversed up side down, so the inlet/outlet can be reversed.
To reverse(valve on the outlet), so you can use this flowmeter with a diffuser at specific set output pressure, if want more detail, but don't want to go through the PDF or official website, let me know.
2. There are more porter glass tubes for F150 flowmeter that handle the larger max flow rate, check metering valve selection thread.
3. other than porter/parker, there are more others...


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

IF I remember correctly (though it doesn't do a lot of good here) BSPT and NPT will sort of fit for a short distance.. But no matter it won't seal..
Minor point is they aren't that different though functionally incompatible..

Been down this road before but think it was 1/4bspt and 1/4npt..
Darn things fit together but don't seal.. It was quite frustrating..

Soo that is why all the pics look flat.. took out the "normal" parts and left w/ just the casting threads..
Just for fun
https://pipeandhose.com/book/npt-vs-bsp-pipe

This could be anything then.. even straight (US) threads w/ an o ring..which is my current guess..


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

For those following along at home, my Porter came threaded as a 5/16" - 24 thread according to my thread finder.


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## KayakJimW (Aug 12, 2016)

Ken Keating1 said:


> @minorhero, @Immortal1, @KayakJimW:
> 
> My flowmeters arrived but 1/8" NPT fittings aren't fitting, it appears the threads are smaller than 1/8". Have you determined what fits?


Mine arrived yesterday but it may be a week before I hook it up. One end was flush to the back with threads that look smaller than 1/8NPT. Other end had a coupling in there with eternal threads as well (just like bettatail's pic) and a stainless fitting in that, that I need to remove. Bummer, I thought I'd seen they were 1/8NPT. I'll follow up once I get it operational. Feels rock solid though!


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

minorhero said:


> For those following along at home, my Porter came threaded as a 5/16" - 24 thread according to my thread finder.


If the threads is 5/16-24, I think I have the fittings that can be use as adapters, many of them too, but let me try them first, if they work I will send them out for free.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> If the threads is 5/16-24, I think I have the fittings that can be use as adapters, many of them too, but let me try them first, if they work I will send them out for free.



Straight threads need a gasket to seal..or, rarely a flare end fit..
Some regulator CGA's use this straight thread to flare fit.


As you can see though.. lots of ways/threads..
https://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/en/MS-13-77.pdf

so you think something like this is the answer?
https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/6401-06-02-6-saeorb-male-x-18-nptf-male.html

See this chart:
SAE Straight Thread O-ring (O-Ring Boss)
SAE J1926-1 and ISO 11296-1
https://www.hydraulicsdirect.com/Fitting-Thread-Chart-s/1934.htm#Flareless-Comp


Check for an O ring or gasket inside a disassembled one..


----------



## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

FWIW I contacted the seller. The listing photos show the ports having the threaded adapter fitting which converts the internal port threads to 1/8" NPT, but these adapters were not included with the units I received. Hopefully he has these adapters and is willing to send them out. I'll post his response as soon as I receive it.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> Straight threads need a gasket to seal..or, rarely a flare end fit..
> Some regulator CGA's use this straight thread to flare fit.
> 
> 
> ...


there are some thread standards not in the swagelok hand manual, need to physically measure and try the threads to find the solution.

for straight threads, PTFE tape or blue loctite sealant are ok, we don't need it to be pressure proof up to the thousands, but if oring is available, even better.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

confirmed, without the adapter, the thread is 5/16-24 for porter, Brooks flow meters , and 3/8-24 for matheson, aalborg, cole palmer, gilmount flow meters.

if need adapter, pm me now, let me know if you need one or two pieces.
I don't have the oring, but I guess it is easy to find the similar size around your house.

Porter flow meter, the black fitting is the original, and the brass fitting is 5/16-24 to 1/8 male npt, can be used as adapter. 










The port is 3/8-24 thread on the matheson flow meter after taking out the adapter.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> Porter flow meter, the black fitting is the original, and the brass fitting is 5/16-24 to 1/8 male npt, can be used as adapter.


Did the Porter have an o ring like the other (Matheson)?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> Did the Porter have an o ring like the other (Matheson)?


yes, it is black o ring in the first picture, on the original adapter, hard to tell but it is there.

the brass adapters have small depression at the end of the threads, it is perfectly fit for an o-ring.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Bettatail said:


> confirmed, without the adapter, the thread is 5/16-24 for porter, Brooks flow meters , and 3/8-24 for matheson, aalborg, cole palmer, gilmount flow meters.
> 
> if need adapter, pm me now, let me know if you need one or two pieces.
> I don't have the oring, but I guess it is easy to find the similar size around your house.
> ...



Ah, so that is what the original adapter for the Porter looks like. Was kinda thinking it looked something like that which I assume was to allow mounting the flowmeter on a board of some type before connecting the tubing. 

O-rings should be pretty easy to source at Menard's - they seem to have plenty of sizes available.

Bump;


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Anyone who wants to try to get the parts right from Parker Hannifin.



> If you need to order new adaptors the parts are:
> 
> A-808-001 ==> Adaptor
> PB-102-5-BN ==> O-ring
> ...


NOW I assume that part # is for:


> Connections - Standard: 1/8" female NPT threaded adaptors with locknuts for front panel mounting.


One could get others I suppose...


> Optional: 1/8"compression fitting
> 1/4" compression fitting
> 1/4" NPT female
> 1/4" I.D. Hose


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Any idea on how to get a flow tube with a steel ball? Pretty sure mine is the black glass ball. I filled out a contact form on the Parker website (I guess porter is owned by parker now?) but haven't heard a response.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

minorhero said:


> Any idea on how to get a flow tube with a steel ball? Pretty sure mine is the black glass ball. I filled out a contact form on the Parker website (I guess porter is owned by parker now?) but haven't heard a response.



My email inquiry took a few days to be answered..

Well surprise, surprise.. Thanks to the part #'s and my Google-foo..
Parts list:
http://0104.nccdn.net/1_5/396/2c9/2a7/Series-F65---F150-Flowmeters--FM-215-Rev.-E-.pdf
https://www.parker.com/literature/Series 65 & 150 Flowmeters (FM-214 Rev. D).pdf

Sadly.. no tube part #'s but replacing a float is easy (if you get one) but it's also easy to lose or fling parts.. 
I did all my disassembly float replacements inside a shoe box.. 
Also found using a small piece of copper wire bent in a hook worked well for pulling out the stopper


----------



## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Well, this was surprising. Stopped by Menard's today and bought a couple different items based on what @Bettatail posted. Turns out the items shown below will work on the forged frame porter flow meter.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Immortal1 said:


> Well, this was surprising. Stopped by Menard's today and bought a couple different items based on what @Bettatail posted. Turns out the items shown below will work on the forged frame porter flow meter.


nice find!
looks like it is exactly the 5/16-24 UNF thread, but on the package/bag only mention for 3/8 OD, it is for air hose?

and how much this piece cost? if it doesn't cost much, and I think I need to refund the shipping charge for the adapters, several people already sent me the payment for the adapters.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

@Bettatail - yes, the fitting is originally designed as a tubing adapter - 3/8" tube to 1/8" pipe. $2.76 each plus another $0.79 each for the o-ring. 
Was a little surprised at how well the o-ring settled into the recess in the frame as the hex portions tightens into the frame.

I can only assume your typical Home Depot & Lowes stores have the same thing - not sure what is near by each person who has purchase one of these flow meters - might be better going with your offer


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Thanks @Immortal for info, very helpful! I took the info to the local Ace Hardware plus Home Depot, but I had no luck in finding a similar fitting.

@Bettatail": Please go ahead and send me what I requested, that'd probably be the easiest plus we know it works also. Hopefully you've already mailed it out as I could of swore I saw *Bettatail* _*Prime*_ when I placed the order!:grin2::grin2:


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Everyone,

The OP has been updated, please check to find out how to calculate the actual co2 injection rate, for this porter flowmeter.




.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Thank-you @Bettatail for the valuable information on the front page. 
A little more info for those with the forged frame Porter B-125-6 flowmeter;


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

I was just at my home Depot but sadly could not find the right part. I will keep poking around locally. If I can't find it will pick something up online.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Now that I have the Porter B-125-6 Flowmeter installed, I am thinking I would like one of the heavier floats (I have the black glass float). 
@Bettatail, your calculations on Page 1 reference a chart that reads 10-150. The glass tube on my setup reads 1-15 (same as in your video). I can only assume that my tube reads the same, with the "0" removed from the chart (i.e. my reading of 15 is the same as the charts reading of 150).
If this is true, without changing my regulator metering valve, and installing the flowmeter in place of the Fluval bubble counter, the float is roughly between 14 and 15 (maybe more towards 15). My regulator has always been set at 20psi - and still is. With that said;

Flowmeter reading = 15
Chart conversion = 34.57
CO2 conversion = 0.81
CC/Min CO2 flow = 28.00
Pressure conversion = 1.51 (only because the regulator pressure is slightly higher)
Corrected sccm = 42.28

Long before getting this flow meter I realized that when I increase the regulator pressure from 20psi to 22psi w/o changing the metering valve, I can get another 0.1ph drop on my ph meter (yes it takes a long time, but is repeatable).

If I leave the pressure at 20psi, but open the metering valve 1/4 turn, I can also observe a 0.1ph additional drop on the ph meter.

But, that was just an observation w/o any real flow data. Now with the flow meter, even with the float at the highest reading, I can data log what my previous adjustments were doing to the actual "flow" of co2 into the reactor. Pretty cool.

Now the next challenge is finding a heavier float. Having changed the tube around I realize the float & tube are a "set". So, a B-125-6 tube with a heavier float would be my next quest. I believe somebody else has already tried contacting Porter?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Immortal1 said:


> Now the next challenge is finding a heavier float. Having changed the tube around I realize the float & tube are a "set".


Technically no...
But I suppose that depemds on the manuf. and what they do.
Aalborg has 100's of beads (so they say) and changing floats just involves pulling the silicone stopper out of one end (suppose the wider end would be a tad more logical).
I've changed my orig ss to sapphire and then to glass so it can be done easily.


I just bought a tube/glass for one of my flowmeters just so I didn't have to mess w/ it.. Cost $25..but these are Aalborgs..


You prob need to contact Parker ,,


----------



## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Immortal1 said:


> Now that I have the Porter B-125-6 Flowmeter installed, I am thinking I would like one of the heavier floats (I have the black glass float).
> @Bettatail, your calculations on Page 1 reference a chart that reads 10-150. The glass tube on my setup reads 1-15 (same as in your video). I can only assume that my tube reads the same, with the "0" removed from the chart (i.e. my reading of 15 is the same as the charts reading of 150).
> If this is true, without changing my regulator metering valve, and installing the flowmeter in place of the Fluval bubble counter, the float is roughly between 14 and 15 (maybe more towards 15). My regulator has always been set at 20psi - and still is. With that said;
> 
> ...


Yes, the 1 - 15 scale is the same as 10-150 on the scale conversion chart.

if you can find/order a sapphire or stainless steel floating ball from Parker/porter, go for it, I will find the conversion charts.

and I will see if I can find another flowmeter with slightly higher max flow range and available existing support document/charts, from evilbay

add:
increase the regulator output to 45 psi, you can have the bigger pressure conversion factor, and bigger actual co2 flow volume.


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

There is a Parker distributor in most area’s of the country. I know my distributor as I dealt with them on a weekly basis. They will have the parts in stock an you can run by an buy it easy.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

minorhero said:


> Any idea on how to get a flow tube with a steel ball? Pretty sure mine is the black glass ball. I filled out a contact form on the Parker website (I guess porter is owned by parker now?) but haven't heard a response.


I've been working with Josh via phone and emails at Parker as I wanted to obtain a sapphire float plus the adapters and o-rings. Plus I asked some questions regarding the scale range. He can be reached at [email protected].

For ordering parts he referred me to

Forberg Scientific
2719 Industrial Row
Troy, MI 48084
Ask for anyone in Inside Sales
[email protected]
(248) 288-5330

Pat Calhoun is the sales person whom I been working with at Forberg. His email address is [email protected]

It's probably going to take a couple of days to obtain pricing as the parts are not listed and they had to go back to Parker's business unit to confirm pricing.

Hopefully folks will find this helpful.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Went to my local Ace/True Value Hardware store today. The only thing I could find that even screwed in was 1/8 to 1/8 compression fitting. It wouldn't quite work as created but I figured I could modify it. I couldn't even find an O ring heh. 

Anyway I wrapped some teflon tape around the ends. This created a seal but I had no way to attach my co2 tubing. I then took one nut from each fitting and drilled the hole larger. a 7/32 drill bit did the trick. I was then able to directly attach the tubing to the compression fitting. So a little DIY but probably one of the more elegant solutions in that I only need a single fitting per connection.



















And thank you Ken Keating1. I contacted Forberg to see if I could buy a flow tube.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

I got an email from Forberg a few minutes ago. Apparently they want 67 dollars for the flow tube and require a minimum order of 10 flow tubes (so 670 dollars). That kind of makes replacing the flowtube a non starter for me. I think I read in this thread we can replace just the float? Is that possible? Can I just order a steel ball bearing and go from there? I haven't tried taking mine apart yet to see if this is doable.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

minorhero said:


> Can I just order a steel ball bearing and go from there?


Yes, just get the right one for the tube....
Sadly they may not do it (just the float) but depends on the company...


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> Yes, just get the right one for the tube....
> Sadly they may not do it (just the float) but depends on the company...


Probably easier to take mine apart and get out my calipers and hope its not custom made (which it probably is not).


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

minorhero said:


> I got an email from Forberg a few minutes ago. Apparently they want 67 dollars for the flow tube and require a minimum order of 10 flow tubes (so 670 dollars). That kind of makes replacing the flowtube a non starter for me. I think I read in this thread we can replace just the float? Is that possible? Can I just order a steel ball bearing and go from there? I haven't tried taking mine apart yet to see if this is doable.



Something @Bettatail mentioned, if you put the flow control knob at the output position (bearing in mind that the pressure in your tube from the flow meter to the reactor will always be the same), you can raise your regulator pressure. This added pressure (up to the flow control valve on the flow meter) means each cc of CO2 has a denser concentration of CO2 and thus, you actually need less flow thru the flow meter. As he pointed out in post 1, your math adjustment for pressure is 1.5x for 18psi and 2.0x for 45 psi.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Right now the flowmeter is perfect. I have it on a 40 gallon breeder. But.. I plan to down the road move this to a 120 gallon that doesn't exist yet. I am trying to future proof myself for that reason. I don't think I will be able to get by with the same float for the 120 gallon with sump as I do for the 40 gallon with canister filter.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

minorhero said:


> Right now the flowmeter is perfect. I have it on a 40 gallon breeder. But.. I plan to down the road move this to a 120 gallon that doesn't exist yet. I am trying to future proof myself for that reason. I don't think I will be able to get by with the same float for the 120 gallon with sump as I do for the 40 gallon with canister filter.



I don't know.. You could be in the 60mL/minute range for a sump/160 gal tank..
Estimates from here:


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> I don't know.. You could be in the 60mL/minute range for a sump/160 gal tank..
> Estimates from here:
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/h2_nj08QwfY


Doesn't a ml translate to 1 cubic centimeter? 

I figured the current setup with glass ball is good for like 35 cc per minute? But the steel ball is good for 105 cc per minute right? Hence my desire for the steel ball.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

minorhero said:


> Doesn't a ml translate to 1 cubic centimeter?



Yes



minorhero said:


> I figured the current setup with glass ball is good for like 35 cc per minute? But the steel ball is good for 105 cc per minute right? Hence my desire for the steel ball.


 I "lost" which exact tube you had and it's max output.
Posed the above just to get some point of reference for large tanks w/ sumps and a flow rate number..


If the above is "your" numbers than yea you won't have enough max flow...


Oh yea, forgot b-125-6 w/ Air rate 34mL/minute..STP.


35 x 1.2 = 42 mL/minute CO2 max...STP


Still lower than "what others use"
I think "we" need a few more estimates on "normal" actual flow rates..
Besides you might find a float by the time of the new tank..


OK it's not really easy in finding examples that one can trust 100% (mine included btw)




> Throwing my numbers for comparison.
> according to my flow meter im at 80ish cc/min. 134 Gall w/ 55 gallon sump, I have a power head on it if it matters. about 20 PSI working pressure. modified cerges reactor.
> if i run a co2 line straight from my flow meter to the sump im at 95~100 cc/min, *inverted cup method matches this number.*


At least it's sort of calibrated..


In light of how things are shaking out it's almost better to just get a new flowmeter when the time comes.
I'm not a fan of bleeding edge CO2 delivery but that is just me..





> One pound (454 grams) of carbon dioxide CO2 gas occupies 0.2426 m3, or 8.566 ft3, or 64 US gallons, or 243 liters – your choice of units!


242000 cc's/ lb..


1lb lasts 40 hours at 100cc/min...5 days,,
sound right??


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> Yes
> 
> 
> I "lost" which exact tube you had and it's max output.
> ...


Yeah I might just have to accept I will need a new meter when I get the new tank. Ohs well if I can make it work I will /shrug.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

minorhero said:


> Yeah I might just have to accept I will need a new meter when I get the new tank. Ohs well if I can make it work I will /shrug.


I don't think you need a new flowmeter, I will explain later.


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## MD500_Pilot (Dec 28, 2019)

Would this be an acceptable flow meter for my CO2 tank? Seems pretty inexpensive at $28, just would like to make sure I am not wasting money...


Ok, not sure why this thing keeps removing my link, but here it is again, 

/itm/Porter-Instruments-Flowmeter-F65-SV3-A25Q-6-B3086-0-120-SCFM/153176633365


Just put the normal ebay url in front of it...


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

MD500_Pilot said:


> Would this be an acceptable flow meter for my CO2 tank? Seems pretty inexpensive at $28, just would like to make sure I am not wasting money...
> 
> 
> Ok, not sure why this thing keeps removing my link, but here it is again,
> ...



Well it's sold and prob not..
looks like an A-250 tube.. so
42400cc/min max flow w/ a small height tube.

https://www.parker.com/Literature/L...ure PDF/Models F65 & F150 FM-1058 pp. 4-7.pdf

Ok let's just say.. no...............


----------



## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

MD500_Pilot said:


> Would this be an acceptable flow meter for my CO2 tank? Seems pretty inexpensive at $28, just would like to make sure I am not wasting money...
> 
> 
> Ok, not sure why this thing keeps removing my link, but here it is again,
> ...


as jeff said, no, this model is off our co2 injection range.

for what size planted tank you want a high precision flowmeter? I may find you a good one from evilbay, you can also check my metering valve selection thread to do your own research.
they are normally $250 a piece, cheap on evilbay because no others realize what they can do for our planted tank, now the porter B-125-6 has gone, depleted, but there are still some other brands on evilbay, not many and it is only a matter of time these flowmeters will be gone as well.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Just popping in to say this is a very useful thread and so is the one about metering valves.


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## MD500_Pilot (Dec 28, 2019)

Bettatail said:


> as jeff said, no, this model is off our co2 injection range.
> 
> for what size planted tank you want a high precision flowmeter? I may find you a good one from evilbay, you can also check my metering valve selection thread to do your own research.
> they are normally $250 a piece, cheap on evilbay because no others realize what they can do for our planted tank, now the porter B-125-6 has gone, depleted, but there are still some other brands on evilbay, not many and it is only a matter of time these flowmeters will be gone as well.


Thank You. I currently have a 75 gallon but looking to move to a 210 gallon. I currently use a bubble counter that came with my CO2Art Regulator along with a PH Controller. I am not too worried about too much CO2 since I have the ph controller sans a catastrophic meltdown of the solenoid on the regulator. 

I'll take a look at your other post. Thank You


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

post one updated, new co2 injection methods.

let me know what you think about the new method, good and bad, nothing is perfect.


----------



## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Well, this was surprising. Stopped by Menard's today and bought a couple different items based on what @Bettatail posted. Turns out the items shown below will work on the forged frame porter flow meter.



I got my Parker Flow meter from the Bay (Thanks for the link Bettatail!). Now I'm completely confused on the fittings. The bag in the pic identifies this fitting as a 3/8"OD by 1/8"MIP. (I've never seen a threaded fitting size identified by "OD") If I do a search on Menard's it doesn't come up. If I search by the part number (on the bag) it does come up, but identifies it as an 1/8" compression x 1/8" mip and it comes with a nut, ferrule and sleeve. It looks like it's about the right size if you remove the extra parts. I decided to take a chance and order since the total with shipping would be less than $12. They won't ship it to California because of hazardous material. (Gotta love it.) So does the threaded side of an 1/8" compression fitting work with an o ring added? I want to get it righ so I can order it. Not a good time to go shopping!


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Kubla said:


> If I search by the part number (on the bag) it does come up, but identifies it as an 1/8" compression x 1/8" mip and it comes with a nut, ferrule and sleeve. It looks like it's about the right size if you remove the extra parts. I decided to take a chance and order since the total with shipping would be less than $12. They won't ship it to California because of hazardous material. (Gotta love it.) So does the threaded side of an 1/8" compression fitting work with an o ring added? I want to get it righ so I can order it. Not a good time to go shopping!


Check out my post #72. This is the part I ended up with. It needs adaptation but after that it worked.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Kubla said:


> I got my Parker Flow meter from the Bay (Thanks for the link Bettatail!). Now I'm completely confused on the fittings. The bag in the pic identifies this fitting as a 3/8"OD by 1/8"MIP. (I've never seen a threaded fitting size identified by "OD") If I do a search on Menard's it doesn't come up. If I search by the part number (on the bag) it does come up, but identifies it as an 1/8" compression x 1/8" mip and it comes with a nut, ferrule and sleeve. It looks like it's about the right size if you remove the extra parts. I decided to take a chance and order since the total with shipping would be less than $12. They won't ship it to California because of hazardous material. (Gotta love it.) So does the threaded side of an 1/8" compression fitting work with an o ring added? I want to get it righ so I can order it. Not a good time to go shopping!



Just to clarify - yes, once you remove the compression nut and add the O-ring, it threads into and seals up to the flow meter just fine.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

I think I've got what I need, at least for the next step. Thanks for the help!


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

I still have my fleabay flow meter sitting here unused. I have a 20lb CO2 tank that feeds 3 aquariums using 2 dwyer RMA-151-SSVs, a Y splitter, and a cheap airline ball valve to restrict flow to the 10gal tank. It's not pretty, but it's working. I haven't gotten around to plumbing in the new flow meter yet.

I also searched these parts out on menards, and I thought I'd share the direct links:

1/8" Compression x 1/8" MIP is the adapter, and 3/8" x 1/4" O-Ring (#5) is the O-ring that Immortal1 posted about a few weeks back.

I'm not going to order these just yet -- if I can find the same stuff at Lowe's across the street, that will be cheaper for me; shipping on $8 worth of stuff doubles the price.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

The parker/porter B-125-6 flow meter for co2 flow rate calculation was wrong, I measure the actual co2 flow rate on the porter flowmeter today, and got some result, not the complete measurement though, only half way done.

scale --flow rate(SCCM, 1 ATM or 0 psig, 70 F)
1 --4.22
2 --5.47
3 --8.17
4 --11.04
5 --13.3
6 --15.5
7 --18.33
8 --21.7
9 --25.5
10 --28.3
11 --31
12 --34.5
13 --37.5
14 --42
15 --46
and I will measure the actual co2 flow rate under different pressure.


there is a new flow meter that we can use, evil bay key word: Adjustable Oxygen Flow Meter 100 psig
it is fairly large flow rate meter originally for oxygen at 100 psig, no brand but it is actually a Key instruments(best build quality IMO) 65mm flowmeter, and I did calibration measurement today for this flow meter, below is the co2 flow rate at 1 ATM
scale --flow rate(SCCM, 1 ATM or 0 psig, 70 F)
0.5 --2.25
1 --5.9
1.5--9.3
2 --10.5
3 --15.3
4 --17.2
5 --20.8
6 --22.16
7 --24.7
8 --27.5
9 --30.5
10 --33
11 --37
12 --39.5
13 --41.5
14 --43.5
15 --45.5
16 --48.5
17 --50.5
18 --53


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

both the Porter B-125-6 and Key instruments G102 flow meter calibration data(real measurement) at 1 ATM(0 psig, 70 F) completed and have been added to the post above, and the first post of current thread.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

The key instruments 65mm flow meter.

This one is calibrated for direct oxygen flow rate reading at 100psig, but the flow tube should be the same as a G102 model(for air), enough good precision for our co2 flow rate control/monitoring, and I think this flow meter has the best build quality among the 65mm flow meters.

there is magnify lens on the plastic shell for easy reading.


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## jpitbull (Mar 8, 2018)

zivvel said:


> I still have my fleabay flow meter sitting here unused. I have a 20lb CO2 tank that feeds 3 aquariums using 2 dwyer RMA-151-SSVs, a Y splitter, and a cheap airline ball valve to restrict flow to the 10gal tank. It's not pretty, but it's working. I haven't gotten around to plumbing in the new flow meter yet.
> 
> I also searched these parts out on menards, and I thought I'd share the direct links:
> 
> ...


hmm dont order online from that link they sent a watts to me with that order number and its not the same waist of 20$. It dont have the piece I need. Heres what I was sent ]


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

jpitbull said:


> hmm dont order online from that link they sent a watts to me with that order number and its not the same waist of 20$. It dont have the piece I need. Heres what I was sent ]


So you're saying that the 1/8 compression side of that fitting doesn't fit your meter?

That is not good news for me -- I have something similar on order from amazon, "arriving April 23 - April 28." I ordered from amazon because I wanted elbows specifically, to go with the rest of my CO2 manifold.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

zivvel said:


> So you're saying that the 1/8 compression side of that fitting doesn't fit your meter?
> 
> That is not good news for me -- I have something similar on order from amazon, "arriving April 23 - April 28." I ordered from amazon because I wanted elbows specifically, to go with the rest of my CO2 manifold.


 I can assure you that if you have the aluminum frame Porter B-125-6 flow meter, the compression side of a 1/8"od x 1/8" MIP adapter will thread in. 

Also, my apologies for the pic below as I included the wrong plastic bag in the pic.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

A reminder if you have flowmmeter w/ the orig fitting(s) removed (smooth back).


> without the adapter, the thread is 5/16-24 for porter, Brooks flow meters , and 3/8-24 for matheson, aalborg, cole palmer, gilmount flow meters.


THREAD sizes not fitting size.
Inch size is 1/8 and 3/16 respectively.


> SAE Straight Thread O-ring (O-Ring Boss)
> SAE J1926-1 and ISO 11296-1
> 
> The female port of the O-Ring Boss has a sealing face, chamfer, and a straight thread. The male connector has an O-ring and a straight thread. The seal is made when the O-ring is squeezed into the chamfer. The male and female threads bind together to make a mechanically strong connection. This connection is common in high pressure hydraulic systems.


https://www.hydraulicsdirect.com/Fitting-Thread-Chart-s/1934.htm

Radwell has some Parker adaptors in the correct size:
https://www.radwell.com/en-US/Buy/PARKER/TUBE FITTINGS DIVISION/2-1-DIV-8F5OG-S
*2-1/8 F5OG 
5/16 - 24 end one..
1/8 - 27 NPTF end 2*.

Parker doesn't carry the 3/16 -3 size (3/8-24 threads)

Female end makes finding barbs easier btw..

https://www.parker.com/literature/Tube Fittings Division/Pipe_Fittings_&_Port_Adapters.pdf
pg13...(F)

I suppose if you got the flared end ones that fit (thread wise) you may need to grind off the flare so it fits..???


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Immortal1 said:


> I


Still trying to figure out the 3/8 thing.. 

3/8 is od of male threads for the 3/16-3 fitting. See


> SAE Straight Thread O-ring (O-Ring Boss


)
https://www.hydraulicsdirect.com/Fitting-Thread-Chart-s/1934.htm


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## jpitbull (Mar 8, 2018)

Bump:


zivvel said:


> So you're saying that the 1/8 compression side of that fitting doesn't fit your meter?
> 
> That is not good news for me -- I have something similar on order from amazon, "arriving April 23 - April 28." I ordered from amazon because I wanted elbows specifically, to go with the rest of my CO2 manifold.



When it comes in and if it works can you please post a link so I can order 2 and get this thing to work.

I got the last one on auction. My Dad passed away so didnt have time to order the fittings but when I followed the link this is all that came in both bags from that link .


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

jpitbull said:


> Bump:
> 
> 
> When it comes in and if it works can you please post a link so I can order 2 and get this thing to work.
> ...


That sucks, and it looks like you got hosed. That is the nut that goes on the adapter, but that adapter should have also been included. That's what you paid for. You should contact the store and tell them they didn't send you the right stuff. It's the right bag, but the bag is missing contents. It should have had all this:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Still trying to figure out the 3/8 thing..
> 
> 3/8 is od of male threads for the 3/16-3 fitting. See )
> https://www.hydraulicsdirect.com/Fitting-Thread-Chart-s/1934.htm


I see what you are asking Jeff. But, in this case, the item we are using is an adapter to go from 1/8"od tube compression fitting to 1/8" pipe thread.
The picture just above this post is what the complete contents should look like.
Again, I grabbed the wrong plastic bag


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Immortal1 said:


> Again, I grabbed the wrong plastic bag



AHHH.. I get it now..


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

I complete the co2 flow rate calibration data for the key instruments flow meter today. The porter B-125-6 flow meter co2 flow rate calibration will be ready in a couple more days(hope so).


evil bay key word: Adjustable Oxygen Flow Meter 100 psig
Key instruments 65mm flowmeter, for oxygen direct reading at 100 psig.

below is the calibration data for co2 at 0, 20, 40 psig(pressure in glass tube), the max is 72 sccm(more than 72, don't care)


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

I also complete this today


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> AHHH.. I get it now..


I actually got this 2-pack of fittings from Amazon, and they are perfect (with the addition of o-rings I already had in my garage).

But if you go there, you have to *select 1/8" OD x 1/8" Male NPT*.

But right now that size must be out of stock because the option isn't there. I got a 2-pack Prime delivered for $9.73.


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

zivvel said:


> I actually got this 2-pack of fittings from Amazon, and they are perfect (with the addition of o-rings I already had in my garage).
> 
> But if you go there, you have to *select 1/8" OD x 1/8" Male NPT*.
> 
> But right now that size must be out of stock because the option isn't there. I got a 2-pack Prime delivered for $9.73.


P.S. Be careful not to overtighten. I destroyed one of those fittings. Thanks to @Bettatail I had extra.

I'll just leave this here... v2.0 with the Porter attached for my 10gal tank. Nothing flowing right now.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

CO2 calibration data for porter B-125-6 has been measured, and I add the data sheet to the first post as well.
@zivvel, @minorhero, and whoever need the calibration data, see the chart below.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

@Bettatail

I just bought a flowmeter at a steal and I think its usable for co2 . Its a brooks show rate 1350 with an adjusting valve..brooks tube 1-65 and its calibrated for 0 to 10 sLPH of helium at 70 degrees F and 14.7psia.

Is this usable for our purposes? If not im out a whole 13 dollars...lol.

Looking at the math and correct me if im wrong, the correction factor for these from helium to co2 is .30
10lph x .3 = 3lph of co2 full scale.
3 lph x 1000 cc in a liter= 3000cc per hour
3000cc per hour ÷ 60 minutes = 50 cc per minute

So 50cc per minute at 14.7psi seems to be right in our range, correct?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

first of all, it is a very good flowmeter and a lucky find.

14.7psia is 0 psig.

50cc/m at 14.7psia(0 psig) is in our range, but do not trust the correction factor for exact flow rate. If manufacture calibration data for co2 is not available, you need to calibrate this flow meter with other device.

I have the Brooks instrument calibration manual for 150mm flow meters, but yours is 60mm flowmeter, and it is for helium, I don't have CO2 calibration data for it. 
you can use it according to the calculated flow rate, but observe the fauna and never push co2 to the limit. 
we can keep looking for the the calibration data or you can send it to me so I will be able to physically measure the co2 flow rate, and make the calibration data chart for different pressure setting.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

Bettatail said:


> first of all, it is a very good flowmeter and a lucky find.
> 
> 14.7psia is 0 psig.
> 
> ...


Ok, i do also have the key instruments one from evilbay you made the calibration charts for. Maybe i could play around and see how the 2 flowmeters compare.
I wont gas my fish, i have a raspberry pi running reef-pi running my tank...it allows me to use a ph probe to monitor ph and control the solenoid so i can shut co2 down if ph drops too low as a failsafe.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

Struck another lucky find. Actually put in a crazy offer of $15.99 on a flowmeter days ago and they decided to take me up on it.
A Matheson R7640 with the fine flow 610A tube with adjustment valve. In good shape pulled from a working install. We shall see.

Best part is Matheson has the co2 data for that tube available, at 0 psig it reads to 100 sccm, at 20psi almost 200 in pretty fine increments that should cover the range of what I may inject into the 75 gallon with 40 breeder sump


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Is the key instruments the one to buy still? Need something for a 45g.

Are the input and outputs 1/8 male npt?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

the input/output are 1/8 female npt, this flow meter is still available, the seller still has more than 10.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Bettatail said:


> the input/output are 1/8 female npt, this flow meter is still available, the seller still has more than 10.


K great thanks I'll order it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Bryan_ (Jul 29, 2018)

Being reading through the posts and it can be a bit confusing to wrap my hear around. I do have a couple questions, for the life of me I don't understand psig, as I understand it at sea level it is going to be a ballpark of psig +14. So for the charts does that mean at 40psig the regulator pressure is at around 55psi.

In practical terms if we consider the Key flowmeter as a option, can a user with this particular flowmeter adjust as low as say 1 bubble every couple seconds at the low end and at what psi at the regulator?. I know there is so much variability, but just a ballpark is this doable with a flowmeter that has been covered in the thread?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Bryan_ said:


> Being reading through the posts and it can be a bit confusing to wrap my hear around. I do have a couple questions, for the life of me I don't understand psig, as I understand it at sea level it is going to be a ballpark of psig +14. So for the charts does that mean at 40psig the regulator pressure is at around 55psi.
> 
> In practical terms if we consider the Key flowmeter as a option, can a user with this particular flowmeter adjust as low as say 1 bubble every couple seconds at the low end and at what psi at the regulator?. I know there is so much variability, but just a ballpark is this doable with a flowmeter that has been covered in the thread?


depends on where you use the unit, roughly speaking, 0 Psig is air pressure at sea level, 0 Psia is atmosphere pressure without air.
and 0 psig= 14.7 psia

If it is psi we use in this thread, is the psig, it is the unit you read on the co2 regulator gauges. 
For the psia, because this unit most always preferred as spec data on the flowmeter data sheet, we use it sometimes and always mention 14.7 psia as 0 psig...

Bubble size varies, a bubble double in diameter and the volume increase 8 times of the original, and different pressure, different media, different flow rate.... are factors contribute to the different size of the bubbles.
That is why we use high precision flowmeter, so we know exactly the flow rate of co2 and how much co2 goes into the planted/reef tank at a time interval.


add: you just remind me to check my previous work on the calibration measurement, some of the reading may be off and error occurred because the data sheet use psia, I will check and see if I did make mistakes, and will correct them if I did.


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## Bryan_ (Jul 29, 2018)

Thanks for the explanation. In my case I wouldn't rely on just a flowmeter and the math behind it, I would keep an eye on the ph using a meter and a solenoid. I thought for the price of of the Key flowmeter it may or may not be as precise as a good quality needle valve. Can the Key be adjusted reliably to only produce a bubble or so every couple seconds in a bubble counter if required for a small aquarium.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Ph monitoring is ok, but what if there is difficulty to maintain the ph or Ph/Kh reading errors due to many factors? very slight change of Ph and Kh on the chart means a big difference of co2 concentration in the water.
Counting bubbles is another co2 injection method require close observation if pushing the co2 concentration close to the threshold, many people prefer bubble counter because what they need is a steady slow co2 injection other than pushing the co2 to the limit.

Nothing is 100% bullet proof, the flowmeter is just a new method that we can put co2 into aquarium, and like others, this method is not perfect, but it can be used as bubble counter for a steady injection or pushing more without going over threshold because the possible maximum co2 concentration in the water is known. 

which method a hobbyist chose to inject co2 is pretty much a personal choice, and this choice depends on particular circumstance and how much the experience and confidence he/she has. 
So if you only want bubble counter on your co2 system for a small tank, is fine, but must understand the bubble rate is a virtual reference to keep the co2 injection steady, and how fast of the bubble rate depends on you observation and confidence, but the exact flow rate is unknown.

the key flowmeter or other major brands at this precision is not cheap, they are cheap because they are liquidated and most other hobbyists don't know their value, once more people start using them to inject co2, these high precision flow meter with good price will disappear from evil bay due to limited quantity.

the adjustment capacity of the valve on that key flowmeter, is between a swagelok S series and M series precision metering valve, and don't recommend this flowmeter on small fish tanks that are less than 20 gallons, because even if you can use the good precision valve on it, the floating ball can not stay steady on too low of co2 flow rate. 

The video you see on post 1#, the parker B-125-6 flowmeter, you can see around scale reading 2, the bubble is about 1 bubble/second, that is equivalent to about 5 sccm of co2 flow rate at 0 psig setting, but do not trust the bubble because if the pressure in the bubble counter is different, the bubble rate alter even if the actual co2 flow rate still at 5 sccm...

a typical co2 injection rate for most aquarium setting is 14sccm, this rate derives solely from calculation base on most cases, *5 lb co2 tank 8 hours everyday for 6 month*, is about 14sccm co2 flow rate. Not sure 14sccm flow rate translate into how many bubbles, because it can be several bubbles to many bubbles in a second due to different circumstances. 

I better stop, ... now half asleep because stay late at night, bad habit, because lock down.


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## Bryan_ (Jul 29, 2018)

Thanks for the explanation, yes a lot of variables to consider. I probably should have phrased my question differently. If I have a quality regulator and a quality needle valve it should be possible that I could adjust the C02 for a 5 gallon nano up to say 100's of gallons...for the most part.

So what I wanted to determine in terms of the KEY flowmeter in particular that you reference is could it do the same. I appreciate there is many variables, but could the Key flowmeter suffice at the lower end of the Co2 requirements. I see from the data and video the Porter can approach 1 bubble per sec and that is at 4.2 scfm, whereas the Key can go down to as low as 2 scfm so that is positive so it should if all things being equal.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

first of all, scfm is really big, I think you meant sccm.
The key flowmeter is not ok for nano tank, because the extremely slow co2 flow rate is off the range, but the valve on this flowmeter is ok. 
There are other 150mm flowmeters that is good for 5 gallon and up planted tank, such as the parker B-126-6, the alborg/cole palmer with 42-15-GL, and the matheson with 600 tube, but these are not easy to find now.


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## Bryan_ (Jul 29, 2018)

Yes, sorry meant sccm, thanks for the heads up on the Key flowmeter. Will look around at the others on Ebay, but all the time and effort and the unknowns of a used item probably best to just source out a very good needle valve.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

anyone find any good flow meter and make it work? feedback please.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

Im using a Matheson FM1050 with the 610 sized flow tube, and a HA2 needle valve and its working great. Nice valve easy to adjust and holds steady adjustments. I run at 20psi with the valve on the outlet side of the flowmeter becauae matheson has flow info on co2 at 0 and 20psi on their website for this flowmeter.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

There are only 4 key instrument flow meter left from the ebay seller, not getting it now, will be regretted..

Here is the Books instrument flow meter from Grainger, identical one but a higher range, now it is brooks because key instrument was bought out by Brooks about a decade ago.
ebay number: 313346699384
or from grainger 
https://www.grainger.com/product/BROOKS-0-to-400-ccm-Variable-Area-1XLV8

about $350 a piece, not even the 0-100 ccm range model..


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

Just would like to give some experience with a good flowmeter. I use a Matherson FM-1050 flowmeter with a 610 tube and an HA2 valve which is a great needle valve built into the flowmeter. Matherson has calibration info for co2 on the website. According to their data I run a flow of 34 on the flowmeter which corresponds to 42cc per minute at 20psi. 
Not to bore anyone with calculations but from this I calculated a full 20lb co2 tank would last 155 days. My co2 lasted 154.5 days! Close enough to call the flowmeter and calibration data pretty accurate!
Im happy with the setup, paired with my concoa 315 regulator it has proven to be reliable. The regulator worked until the co2 tank had but a small puff of co2 left inside!


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## natn (Dec 28, 2020)

*One Left*

Just found this forum, and I just stumbled upon this thread.

I have always disliked counting bubbles, it's hard for me to count above 2/second without a slo-mo camera, which I have done on occasion. An there is certainly no way to get an at a glance reading.

I had a crazy idea of using a camera, RaspberyPi and OpenCV to count the bubbles and put the count/sec on an OLED display, but I just bought the second to last Key flowmeter on evilbay.

This seems a bit simpler.


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## schooldazed (Mar 31, 2013)

Bought what was the last of these. See now the seller has relisted at least one other - item #393073523599 - $38.00 plus shipping. @Bettatail - just hoping to confirm the input/output are indeed 1/8" female npt requiring 1/8" male NPT fitting for initial connection. From the sellers images, looks like the ports are male threads? Want to now get the fittings on the way to make a rig similar to the beauty you posted above (post #107). Thanks for all. Still using and and pleased with the first CO2 diy rig I made some time ago which I could not have done without all the info you've supplied here.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

it is the 1/8 npt female port, both inlet/outlet.

here is a recently built for a school teacher's science project, the valve on flow meter works really well after I add extra needle valve on the outlet.
i have several key instruments flow meters, got them used when I did the research on flowmeters, they are exactly the same as the new one that sold for only $30 a piece on ebay.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

One more CO2 system with the Key flow meter, now this time it is the SMC AS2201(1/8 NPT, 1/4 OD hose) needle valve on the outlet.
The flow control valve is really easy to turn to where I want the floating ball stay exactly, because of the extra SMC needle valve.



















add:

The two valves setup is for ease of flow adjustment if the original valve not the super high precision metering valve.

and two valves setup works best if I open the original valve (on the flowmeter) all the way, then dial the second valve(SMC AS2201 needle valve) to about max allowance co2 flow range on the flowmeter. Now I can come back to adjust the original valve, it will land where I want the floating ball stay exactly.
Either of the two valve not necessarily to be the high precision model as long as they both deal with slow flow. I use the SMC AS2000 model as a secondary valve, it deals with low flow but not a precision flow control valve, and can not be used alone as a needle valve.


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## NotThePainter (Dec 17, 2020)

I just made a short video comparing the Matheson FS1000/1050 series against the Dwyer RMA-150-SSV. I'm just at my workbench, but it is nice seeing them side by side.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Nice video. Very nice that you got the 15 turn valve on your flow meter - you will like that.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

NotThePainter said:


> I just made a short video comparing the Matheson FS1000/1050 series against the Dwyer RMA-150-SSV. I'm just at my workbench, but it is nice seeing them side by side.


nice video, and glad you like the matheson 910(610) flow meter.
The hex adapters on the outlet and inlet of the flowmeter should be 1/2 UNF thread on the outside(if I remember it right, I need to dig the PDF), if you use a nut or a retaining ring(original) on the adapter, make sure you put it flat to the threads and try several time to fit the nut or retaining ring in, because it is not complete threads on the adapter and any slight angle the retaining ring or nut can not fit in.
I have a couple spare retaining washers/rings, if you still need them, PM me your address I will send them over, and sorry didn't read your DIY thread earlier or you should have the retaining washers by now.


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## NotThePainter (Dec 17, 2020)

Bettatail said:


> I have a couple spare retaining washers/rings, if you still need them, PM me your address I will send them over, and sorry didn't read your DIY thread earlier or you should have the retaining washers by now.


Thank you thank you thank you!


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

For anyone with a big tank and big flow requirements, there is a nice Key Instruments flow meter on e bay right now; listing 325002638688.


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## Toofewfish (Aug 6, 2021)

EmotionalFescue said:


> For anyone with a big tank and big flow requirements, there is a nice Key Instruments flow meter on e bay right now; listing 325002638688.


I bought it.. Should have it in a few days.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

There is currently a Porter triple meter on e bay - each station is fitted with a 34ccm tube and a Parker HR 0 valve. Seller will take $130.

That's basically three of the best planted tank tube/valve combos in existence with the notable caveat that they're all in one housing... BUT - that's three HR 0s and three super low flow tubes which you could put into other single station bodies, or whatever. A stone cold steal.

Listing 165136412377

Please - one of you buy this thing so I don't break down and do it myself.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

EmotionalFescue said:


> There is currently a Porter triple meter on e bay - each station is fitted with a 33ccm tube and a Parker HR 0 valve. Seller will take $130.
> 
> That's basically three of the best planted tank flow meter/valve combos in existence with the notable caveat that they're all in one housing... BUT - that's three HR 0s and three super low flow tubes which you could put into other single station bodies, or whatever. A stone cold steal.
> 
> ...


I can't find a tube reference nor do they list float material..



https://vikinginstrument.com/wp-content/uploads/files/products/flowmeters-56.pdf


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

jeffkrol said:


> I can't find a tube reference nor do they list float material..
> 
> 
> 
> https://vikinginstrument.com/wp-content/uploads/files/products/flowmeters-56.pdf


I'm 99.999% certain they're B-125-6 tubes with glass floats:










I think the tubes aren't numbered this way because they don't have the standard 0-150mm linear markings and are instead printed with the flow in ccm air. Was probably a bespoke order for the lab that originally purchased.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

EmotionalFescue said:


> I'm 99.999% certain they're B-125-6 tubes with glass floats:
> 
> View attachment 1041536
> 
> ...


Could be..
This is what I got from Parker..


> Dear Jeff,
> 
> Thank you for your email. The part numbers you provided are all tied to non-standard flow tube decals on our rotameters. Is there some specific detail I can help to provide? Attached is our catalog for standard product for review.
> 
> Best Regards,


not any help atm..anyways tubes are interchangeable (maybe?), valves are worth $100 each retail.
Seems like pulling teeth.. 
I'll try a direct question..

I gave them 3 "non-standard" flowtube #'s btw


> porter flowmeter tubes b-1267, b-817, or
> b-497


No "easy" info on any apparently.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

jeffkrol said:


> Could be..
> This is what I got from Parker..
> 
> not any help atm..anyways tubes are interchangeable (maybe?), valves are worth $100 each retail.
> ...


Well, I bought a pair of the single-station meters with the same tube from that same seller, so I'll report in here if they're not what I'm thinking. But, the tubes are marked with 'ccm air' and ~34ccm max markings, so I will be shocked if they're not b-125-6 equivalents. I have one already with the standard b-125-6 tube, so it should be easy to tell.

On a related note, I will have some flow meters to sell soon!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

EmotionalFescue said:


> But, the tubes are marked with 'ccm air' and ~34ccm max markings,


Well that would have been helpful.. 

34 ccm matches the b 125-6 with glass float.
air x 1.227 = CO2.. approx @ STP soo tube limit is
41.7 CCM of CO2

Looking back you did refer to it. My bad.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> Well, I bought a pair of the single-station meters with the same tube from that same seller, so I'll report in here if they're not what I'm thinking. But, the tubes are marked with 'ccm air' and ~34ccm max markings, so I will be shocked if they're not b-125-6 equivalents. I have one already with the standard b-125-6 tube, so it should be easy to tell.
> 
> On a related note, I will have some flow meters to sell soon!


You're saying the b-1267 is a b-125-6 equivalent?


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

Virtus said:


> You're saying the b-1267 is a b-125-6 equivalent?


Right. The b-125-6 is the standard tube number with generic 1-150mm markings, and the flow rate it supports is a function of the float material, as shown here:










The tubes in the listing (which is the same tube you got in your single station model) could technically support the same flows-by-float as the b-125-6, but it doesn't have a generic scale. It has ccm air with markings going up to 34 which implies only one float (glass) really makes sense. Hence the different model number.



jeffkrol said:


> Well that would have been helpful..
> 
> 34 ccm matches the b 125-6 with glass float.
> air x 1.227 = CO2.. approx @ STP soo tube limit is
> ...


No worries! I think the conversion is division, though... 

The data sheet I have for a Key Instruments flow meter has air, oxygen, nitrogen, argon, co2 and helium at various cutpoints. The closest air flow to 34 on that data sheet is 33.8 and the corresponding co2 figure is 27.4, which jives with your 1.2 factor by way of division.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> Right. The b-125-6 is the standard tube number with generic 1-150mm markings, and the flow rate it supports is a function of the float material, as shown here:
> 
> View attachment 1041735
> 
> ...


I have so much to learn. Been trying to read through this thread and it's just making my head hurt 😂


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

Virtus said:


> I have so much to learn. Been trying to read through this thread and it's just making my head hurt 😂


Most of the learning curve is to get to the point where you can pick good meters for decent prices on e bay, so I wouldn't sweat it too much!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

EmotionalFescue said:


> No worries! I think the conversion is division, though...
> 
> The data sheet I have for a Key Instruments flow meter has air, oxygen, nitrogen, argon, co2 and helium at various cutpoints. The closest air flow to 34 on that data sheet is 33.8 and the corresponding co2 figure is 27.4, which jives with your 1.2 factor by way of division.


From Aalborg..


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

jeffkrol said:


> From Aalborg..


Interesting. Here's the data sheet I was referring to:










I found the following here: https://www.mpbflowmeters.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MPB_Industries_Useful_Conversions.pdf


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

EmotionalFescue said:


> I found the following here: https://www.mpbflowmeters.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MPB_Industries_Useful_Conversions.pdf
> 
> View attachment 1041743


Yea I'm confused, trying to find out what the tables mean really.
Pretty sure somewhere in this thread I did this dance before..
The equations in the pdf follow your understanding and others..
See gas flow calculations..


https://www.aalborg.com/images/file_to_download/en_Aalborg_EM20210720_Technical_Information.pdf





EmotionalFescue said:


> I found the following here: https://www.mpbflowmeters.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MPB_Industries_Useful_Conversions.pdf


Soo what do you think about this?



> Conversion factors should not be used for variable are(a) flow meters with ball floats.








Gas Correction Factors | Brooks Instrument


Enjoy access to all of Brooks Instrument's sizing tools, including variable area sizing engines, mass flow sizing engines and gas correction factors.




www.brooksinstrument.com


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

jeffkrol said:


> Soo what do you think about this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They give a multiplicative factor of .81 which is the same as 1/1.23, so that's the same, at least. As for not using it with ball float meters... I'm not sure what to make of that!

I didn't know this formula though!










That's good to know! I wasn't sure how to change my working pressure and adjust my measured flow to maintain the same actual flow...

That's so cool. 

For example, If I change my PSIG from 15 to 25 I need to reduce my indicated flow from 33.75ccm (93mm) to 29.19ccm (85mm) to maintain the same actual flow.

I never knew how to do that before. Thanks for sharing that link, @jeffkrol !


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

EmotionalFescue said:


> I didn't know this formula though!
> 
> 
> 
> That's good to know! I wasn't sure how to change my working pressure and adjust my measured flow to maintain the same actual flow...


I decided a rain gauge should do for relative measurements..
Rain Gauge

sure beats the math headache and ???'s and big enough mouth to go over a diffusion disk.. maybe.

(Man hope nobody saw this post before editing, really off my feed today)



EmotionalFescue said:


> I didn't know this formula though!
> 
> View attachment 1041755
> 
> ...


Believe you need the metering valve on the outlet side if going to a disk type output.
Inlet side ok for reactors where there is little "downstream" back pressure.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

jeffkrol said:


> Believe you need the metering valve on the outlet side if going to a disk type output.
> Inlet side ok for reactors where there is little "downstream" back pressure.


Yep, I either put the metering valve on the outlet side or I leave it on the inlet and put a back pressure valve on the outlet. The cheap ebay needle valves work great for that.

Received and installed one of the single station Porter meters on my 80g today...










Huge improvement over the Swagelok SS / Brooks 65mm combo I had on there before.


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