# What algae is this and how do I improve things?



## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

PT gang,
I have some sort of soft, felt like green algae coating my wood, plant leaves and other items. Can anyone ID it for me and suggest what to do next?

Few parameters that I know of at the moment:
29 gal tank with Eheim Pro 4+ 250 filter
CO2 added. On about 2 hrs prior(need to adjust to 1 hour) and off 1 hour before lights off
Fluval Planted 3.0 light 8hrs full brightness Lights adjusted recently to 12 - 12:30 sunrise, full bright ness 12:30 - 18:30 then sunset from 18:30 - 19:00 with Blue only at 10% for Night
EI dosing (CSM+B following NilocG dosing instructions)
pH 6.4 (CO2 on, 7.2 evening/with CO2 off)
water has 30ppm NO3
soft water

Let me know what else to test and I will get the data. IF API test kits are not recommended, suggest alternative if necessary. Otherwise, I tend to have access to API.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

by the way, what you see on the wood is now totally covering the wood and rocks. They are a Kelly green color. This was an older picture.

I tested NO3 and found them high and did about a 60% water change. The cloudiness I had is gone this morning.

Any thoughts on what to do about the green stuff?

Thanks in advance

Frank


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

It's a little hard to tell from the picture... is it like a slimely blanket that goes over everything and peels off easily but grows back quick? Or more of a tough, hard to remove, type?


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

slimely blanket, easy to rub off.

Bump: on wood seems easy. I used a sponge glass cleaner to rub some off.

On plant leaves, not so easy. I rubbed the leave by hand and it really didn't come off.

Today's photos


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

What you have there is cyanobacteria - not actually an algae. The cure is to do a water change, and give the tank a good clean removing as much as possible (rub it away with a tooth brush and syphon or net it up) give your gravel a vacuum too. Then tape paper over the tank to block out any light from the room, and turn your lights completely off. Wait a week, and then uncover the tank and you should find it's all gone  

It's often poor flow or detritus build up that triggers it, so you might also want to look at the flow around your tank and your cleaning routine to ensure it doesn't come back.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Chemiclean is used to remove BGA.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

ChrisX said:


> Chemiclean is used to remove BGA.


This or Erythromycin gets rid of very quickly. You could buy it in the form of a fish med tablet for a bacterial infection.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Personally I'm anti antibiotic use unless it's necessary... it kills good and bad bacteria indiscriminately, overuse contributes to antibiotic resistance etc. We can't get it without prescription in the UK and still manage to successful get rid of cyanobacteria.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Chemiclean went in last night.

As for flow, I have a Eheim Pro 4+ 250 that keeps the plants in motion in my 29gal. The only fish in this tank are 5 painted orange platies and just finished cycling. I have been doing EI dosing for the plants and found no ammonia nor nitrites but about 160ppm nitrates. Before adding the chemiclean, I had done a big water change. Tap runs 30-40ppm nitrates normally. About a week ago I used API general cure thinking a fish had dropsy. Turned out to be pregnant. Wrong guess on my part. I will further inspect my cleaning regiment I do with a Python no spill and fill. I typically do weekly cleanings.

Bump: Thank you for the help. The Chemiclean says it can take up to 48 hrs so I am planning another water change tomorrow night.

If I do not see any change, should I leave it in longer?


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Update:
I added the Chemiclean and I cannot say it is doing much. Since they say to do a cleaning. I got out a new toothbrush(just for the tank) and scrubbed as much as I could see of the cb as I could off the wood, rocks and everywhere.

Only issue now is that I have green water. From the previous pictures, it was already there. Boy am I good at growing plankton and cyanobacteria! Already had just purchased a couple nerites so all I could do next was lights out. Skylight shades were set on a timer to remain closed until 1 PM (room faces east) to further limit the light. The Fluval is set to off and I turned off the CO2. I figured if the plants are on a restricted diet of light, they probably will not need CO2. I will turn it on for 4-5 hours (if that) in the evening. 


Does this sound reasonable? Should I be adding Chemiclean during these few days with lights out or wait until Wed or so to do a second dose?

Thanks in advance,
Frank


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Fly2High said:


> Update:
> I added the Chemiclean and I cannot say it is doing much. Since they say to do a cleaning. I got out a new toothbrush(just for the tank) and scrubbed as much as I could see of the cb as I could off the wood, rocks and everywhere.
> 
> Only issue now is that I have green water. From the previous pictures, it was already there. Boy am I good at growing plankton and cyanobacteria! Already had just purchased a couple nerites so all I could do next was lights out. Skylight shades were set on a timer to remain closed until 1 PM (room faces east) to further limit the light. The Fluval is set to off and I turned off the CO2. I figured if the plants are on a restricted diet of light, they probably will not need CO2. I will turn it on for 4-5 hours (if that) in the evening.
> ...


I would just follow the Chemiclean directions. If it is legitimately cyano, then the chemiclean should work. From memory the improvement was towards the end of treatment, it doesnt just clear up overnight.

The scale of your algae is reminiscent of algae growth I've been dealing with recently, and besides other factors, suggests you have too much light in general.

If you lights are not adjustable, you could mount them a few inches higher which would reduce PAR significantly. Also if you have Nitrate and Phosphate tests, check to make sure they are in a reasonable range.

Edit: I re-read your original post and it implies that you don't have a full -1 pH drop with the CO2. If your tank water is normally 7.2, you would want to target 6.2 before lights on.

Just some thoughts that might help.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

I went the full 2 days and did the water removal as directed. Did not appear to help so far. Some suggest needing more than one dose. 

Thank you for the suggestions. I will see what my NO3 and PO4 levels are. I know my tap is already pretty high and I do have a Phosphate test and will report back. 
I realize I should have a full pH drop but none of the plants I have are listed as requiring it and I wanted to go slowly. The drop checker does though show a nice green/light green so I figured why push it too far.

Does cyanobacteria and plankton benefit form CO2 as well? Was debating shutting it off for a few days to limit the amount of nutrients available to them. Not sure if it will just hurt the plants more. I figure with less light, the plants might not need it.

thanks for the info and suggestions. Will act on them tonight.

Bump: in addition, I upped the canister filter flow to the max. Poor babies are really working hard to fight the current. Hopefully a cleaner tank, more flow, Chemiclean and reduced lighting will show results.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

No you don't want to stop co2. You'll put the plants are more of a disadvantage. Continue with the chemiclean and keep doing big water changes. From your pics I see green water, looks like BBA, so you have more than just BGA.

This is more than likely a light issue. You have to remember algae starts before you see it. So when you see the algae and reduce lighting its only going to do so much. You need to not only reduce light duration, but increase plant mass, increase water changes, add carbon or other organic removal media. and cut off as many affected leaves as you can. Eventually you will beat the algae if your plants are growing. Ferts and co2 don't cause algae. Organic waste that eventually becomes no3 can, but not the no3 that we dose via EI.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

CO2 back on.

Water at lunchtime looked like pea soup and swirling green gas clouds. Did not have time for a second dose of Chemiclean so I will add it tonight after work.

Oddly enough, my Foxtail has been nipped to death by the platies and the mermaid weed has a single last tuft that I doubt will make it. The Staurogyne repens looks like a blowtorch hit it. Few leaves left, some covered in algae and lots of dead spots. It was up until a week a go a nice small carpet. The Athernanthera Renekii looks more like an evergreen than a red plant. I did add some Ludwigia Repens red recently and it is actually showing signs of growth. I might have to Clorox dip some hygrophilia augustafolia from my 10 gal tank and use it to help fight the algae. It grows like crazy!!. I do not want to since that tank has a pond snail infestation and I did not want my 29 in my living room to be inundated by snails. Might have to bite the bullet and take some clippings over until everything else is more established.

Thanks guys for the hand holding. much appreciated.

Frank


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Lobelia cardinalis, Buce wavy green, anubias look ok. Crypts Wendii red and Undulata are also a bit worse for wear but reasonable. Other than the Bacopa, all of these are on the darker side of the tank. Just to remind all, I have the 24" Fluval pushed to one side of the 30" tank.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

I would still suggest my original advice, big clean, water change, no lights for a week (and your right you won't need CO2 either). Be patient, do the full week and you cyano, green water and probably a fair bit of the rest of your algae should improve. 

Then do another water change and clean (removing all the dead algae) and start lights back on a lower setting or shorter period, and sort your ferts/CO2 routine.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

second dose of Chemiclean went in about 6PM yesterday. I must say that things started looking a bit better even by 11 PM. I had put the lights on starting at 6PM until 11PM. Woke up this morning and I can see in my tank clear through to the back wall!! The water does not look green!

Yippee!!!

Thank you guys.

I will wait until tomorrow, as directed by Chemiclean, before doing the next water change. I was going to do all the tests I have at home (pH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, GH and Phosphates) but my daughter needed my help with homework which took until very late. Will do these tests tonight.

I have the lights set to run daylight mode from 12 pm to 6:30 pm with pink 100%, blue 100% cool white off, pure white 50% and warm white 50% which cuts out quite a bit of light from the Fluval Planted 3.0. The ramps are 1/2 hour. Will see how this works out as a starting point.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Premature success. Water was turning cloudy green by the time I came home. Lights out at 6pm. 6 hours of about half light and it got poor. Will have to see what a water change tomorrow does. Chemiclean wants one after 48 hrs. Getting there... I hope


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

As you can see, after 24 hours I am back to green water. Metrics are as follows
pH 7.4-7.5
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrates 80+ but less than 160
Phosphate 1ppm
GH 4 drops of API test giving 71.6ppm
KH 3drops 3dKH or 53.7ppm


Tomorrow is the 20% water change for Chemiclean. What next??


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Long term, as others said: focus on getting good plant growth with correct lighting, CO2 and fert balance.

Short term options, for green water: 
- 50 micron filter pad (Coralife Energy Savers Pure Fluorescent Filter Pads on Amazon)placed in your filter will catch it all, but will have to be changed daily until brought under control. 
- Purigen will help bring down organics rapidly - IF they are the problem.
- A cheap UV sterilizer will kill it. NOTE: I am a strong believer in high-end (expensive $150-$200 area) UV sterilizers for many reasons and would recommend this commitment ASAP, but cheap ones on Amazon will kill green water algae.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

I think I will clean some hygrophilia augustafolia since both the 10 gal and the 29 gal will be getting a water change tonight. I can pilfer some from the 10gal , Clorox it and put it into the tank. that stuff grows quick. 

I guess my problem is also in my thinking. I look at this as an infection that once cleared up will not, necessarily, return. I should look at this as a change of desired state and look for long term alterations to move the state to where I desire it to be. I was hoping that the Ludwigia and Foxtail(green Myrio) would be fast growers and keep my metric in check. The platies ended up eating most of the myrio and now they are nearly barren. The Ludwigia is starting to show growth but evidently they are not growing fast enough to consume the nutrients and out compete the algae/cyanobacteria.

So next course of action is to get some more fast growers.


Another thought. this tank is my first with real wood. I have 3 pieces, one is driftwood and the other to is mopani. *Could the aquarium wood be contributing to the higher than tap nitrates?* I only have 5 platties, 3 of which that are barely an inch and 3 nerites (only 2 are active). I know my tap is pretty high (30-40 ppm) but I cannot see how it can get so high so quickly. I did soak the wood for about a month and even boil it (and the rocks too) for an hour or 2. It was releasing some tannins still when I finally set up the tank but weekly water changes was keeping it to a mild amber tone that was somewhat pleasing. Sure, I would prefer the crystal clear water of my 10gal but the amber did complement the wood and dark Fluorite gravel so it was ok.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Water changes will temporarily get rid of GW, but it will come back unless other variables are changed in the tank as per @Deanna. 

I"m a big fan of UVs. They are a win, win for both controlling GW and reducing illnesses in fish. They are particularly helpful during acclimation as the rid the water of pathogens that many times new, stressed fish succumb to. It's very easy in some tanks to trigger GW by simply moving around the substrate too much so the UV will give you more latitude when you need to move things around.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

It's not the wood and it's not the nitrate in your tap water. If you won't do a blackout at least drastically reduce your lighting. I'm running the Fluval 3.0 over a 18" deep tank at 40% for 6 hours and have floaters on the surface. No light overnight. Then up your water changes, forgot the nitrate in the water, that won't be the problem, if your EI dosing you are adding more in anyway.

Are you changing at least 50% religiously every week? I would do an extra water change considering the current issues. Do you vacuum the mulm from the surface of the substrate each time? Have you cleaned the sponges on your filter to ensure the flow is good?


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

tamsin said:


> It's not the wood and it's not the nitrate in your tap water. If you won't do a blackout at least drastically reduce your lighting. I'm running the Fluval 3.0 over a 18" deep tank at 40% for 6 hours and have floaters on the surface. No light overnight. Then up your water changes, forgot the nitrate in the water, that won't be the problem, if your EI dosing you are adding more in anyway.
> 
> Are you changing at least 50% religiously every week? I would do an extra water change considering the current issues. Do you vacuum the mulm from the surface of the substrate each time? Have you cleaned the sponges on your filter to ensure the flow is good?


I was under the impression that I should not do a blackout. 

Water changes: normally, 50% weekly. Filter cleaned every week to at most every other. Recently, it has been every week. Fluval settings, as of this morning, are below. With my water parameters so 'rich', I stopped EI dosing. The 10 gal hasn't been dosed in weeks and it is still doing great. Plants are growing and algae is very minimal.

Last night I again removed about 45% of the water and Chemicleaned again. Lights were on last night(off all day) for about 5 hours with CO2.

Below is a screenshot at programmed brightness. I cleaned a few hygrophilia and added them to the tank since much of the plant population has been either killed off or eaten by the Platies. Hoping more plant mass will be just the ticket.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Tamsin,

If this doesn't show some improvement once the Hygrophilia start showing growth, I'll do the week of 'lights out'. I will need to do another at least 20% water change due to the Chemiclean on Friday. I will see how things stand and start the lights out period on Sunday.

Thanks

Frank


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

I was at a LFS returning a duplicate Phosphate test and figured it couldn't hurt to ask them as well what to do. Tamsin, much like you, they suggested a blackout period. The water was nowhere as green as a week ago but still not back to normal. I grabbed a few black garbage bags and hung them around the tank by stuffing them under the tank lid. The top still has an air slot and the aerator is still going. CO2 is off. Will see what this does.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

3 days of blackout and all it did was kill the hygrophilia and knock a few more leaves off the plants. Went to the store and purchased some erythromycin and it did show a clearing but 24 hours later, it is less green but still green. Used toothbrush on all items in tank and gave it the second dose. The water still has a white cloudy appearance and eventually goes green. 

Lights are back on and set to 34% across the board. At this point I can see through the tank but it is like looking through a fog. Even at 34%, the whitish cloud goes green in an hour or two.

Anyone try the Tetra algae control product?


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Fly2High said:


> 3 days of blackout and all it did was kill the hygrophilia and knock a few more leaves off the plants. Went to the store and purchased some erythromycin and it did show a clearing but 24 hours later, it is less green but still green. Used toothbrush on all items in tank and gave it the second dose. The water still has a white cloudy appearance and eventually goes green.
> 
> Lights are back on and set to 34% across the board. At this point I can see through the tank but it is like looking through a fog. Even at 34%, the whitish cloud goes green in an hour or two.
> 
> Anyone try the Tetra algae control product?


Algae control products can be tricky and, at best, they are short term fixes. It is easy to kill fish with many of these algae control products. However, I have no direct experience with Tetra's product.

The posts recommending focusing upon healthy plants will provide long-term cure of GWA. Short-term: cheap 50 micron filter (post #20) or UVS.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Deanna,
I am finding that out. Both Chemiclean and Erythromycin have provided temporary relief. I am now on my 3rd day of Erythromycin and it is improved but not gone. The package states to do 2 days, a 25% water change and then 2 more days. 

Last night, I found the following webpage:https://pethelpful.com/fish-aquariums/Blue-Green-Algae-and-Red-Slime

Much of what was already suggested here was in there for long term control. It was a good read. The only addition that was offered for control was reducing the temperature below 76F to reduce their rate of proliferation. I lowered my temp to 74F and will see if all the changes (reduce light [duration as well as intensity], reduced feeding, several cleanings back to back, reduced temp, several nerites) works. Gratefully, platies do not mind the lower temps.

The downside of all of this is that my plant mass has taken a hit. the Hygrophilia augustafolia lost all of its leaves and I think one crypt (undulata I think) has also. The Myrio has so few prons that i doubt it will make a comeback. The S. repens is mostly stalks with few leaves. I am seeing some leaf buds forming so all hope is not lost. At this point, I am doing all I can to keep a clean tank. I am even debating taking the 5 larger platies out and temporarily putting them into the 10 gal tank leaving on the fry to further reduce bacteria nutrients. To help the rooted plants, I made up some Osmocote Plus root tabs ( couldn't find orange container so just used the pink - better than nothing. Have a bird so cuttlebone pieces go in for Ca+). 

With how much light is being blocked when the bacteria bloom gets large, I do not see how the plants can survive with so little light.

*How does a high light, high tech tank fend off BGA or any algae bloom?* Do you just have to plant the he!! out of it right from the startand get that thriving before adding fish or what? I was hoping the myrio, mermaid weed, Alternanthera reineckii roseafolia, Ludwigia (not sure if it is repens or palustris) and hygro would provide enough consumption of nutrients to keep algae at bay. I think algae took off is when the Myrio, the only plant at the time that was growing strong, was demolished by the platys and I had yet to add the hygrophilia and ludwigia. The tank looks rather bare.


I grabbed the Myriophyllum Pinnatum to oxygenate and to help protect fry. *Can anyone suggest a fast grower that is green and helps to protect the platy fry?* Ironically, the 5 large platys are not and have never went after the fry other than to scare them off. They were in the 10 gal with 30+ fry and I do not believe any were eaten. That tank is full of hygrophylia augustafolia which must give them plenty of protection. I think I was also looking for that soft, bottle brush style of plant that was bright green and very different in texture than all the longer leaf plants I originally had.

Thanks gang for the help. Hopefully this is also helping others.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Backing up a little to gather some data points:

- What are your NO3, PO4, KH, NH3, pH and tap GH levels? I know you gave some of this data earlier, but the hammering the tank has taken since may show different results.

- What ferts are you dosing and how much? I’m not sure, but I don’t think I see any K being added, although the root tabs (which aren’t necessary) may add some.

In the meantime, I’d get back to basics, which you can dial-back once you gain control over this mess:

- Back off the use of Chemiclean and erythromycin. The Chemiclean is one-shot regimen to kill BGA …if it was BGA. Although I haven’t seen a bacterial bloom (white cloudiness) in many decades, I used to just let those run their course. With constant use of antibiotics, I’d be concerned that your BB are now struggling.

- Lights: one photoperiod of 6 hours.

- CO2: the pH and KH readings will give us an idea of CO2 levels, but I’d start a slow daily increase until fish show signs of distress, then back-off and try again next day, repeat until they no longer are uncomfortable. I don't think you're getting a good read on the 1-point pH drop technique because a tank isn't going to fully de-gas overnight.

- Ensure strong flow so that all plants are clearly moving top to bottom and be sure it is heavily rippling the surface without breaking the surface (strong surface rippling is important). If you don’t have an extra pump, put a couple of aerators in the tank. This will be too much flow long-term, but I think it will help short-term in moving nutrients and increasing gas exchange, particularly across the substrate.

- Keep up the maintenance and water changes (one 50% weekly should be enough, unless NH3 is a problem). The 50 micron filter would grab all of the floating algae so that your tank would be clear and allow good viewing while your plant health is being established.

- Read post #29 in this thread: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8-general-planted-tank-discussion/1280537-what-your-pro-tips-2.html#post11121321

Test kits: API NO3 kit is very difficult to distinguish levels and difficult to shake well enough on that second step. I use the Salifert NO3 test kit. API is fine for all other tests.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Deanna,
I will perform the tests upon returning home from work. Unfortunately, all I have is the API NO3 test. I do not think I have seen any other available near me. Of course, I just purchased a new API N03 kit...


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

By the way, from recollection much of this disaster started when I turned on CO2. I decided to turn it off. I do not have the plant mass for it yet and the plants I do have are listed as 'recommending' CO2 but not requiring it or so I have red. Besides, things were far better when it was off so why not starve the BGA a bit as well. Last dose of Erythromycin went in last night. I had read that BGA uses 560-620nm (yellow - orange) of light so I turned down the colors that I thought produced those and turned up the blue and pink. The warm white was lowered a lot. the pure and cool white were adjusted for what I was aiming for 34% of the max light intensity. 

I was unable to get much of the stats but I will add the rest later:
Ammonia: 0.25 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrates 80+ (from new bottles API)
pH 7.5 - 7.6. Used high range and it was above lowest 7.4 but not near the 7.8 so this is a guess. Can try the lower range later.


As you can see, I am again cycling....

But it looks better


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Last night was a bit of a nightmare. I removed about 1/3 of the water to help reduce the erythromycin and added a bag of carbon to the filter. I also cleaned out the filter. For those that do not know, I have a whole house filter style cerges reactor on the return line. Well, I cleaned the tank and started to pump the primer on the Eheim Pro 4+ but the water was not coming. I ended up trying several things including cleaning the intake hose, removing the just cleaned intake filter and nothing would have the water siphon. I then noticed my reactor was very full and decided it was the last piece not touched. Once I emptied the reactor, the primer was able to draw water and the siphon started. It was now midnight. I did not finish until 1am. With the CO2 off the tank is still looking very good. Not perfectly clear but sooo much better than the last two weeks. I will see if I can get some test readings tonight. I just ran out of time yesterday. The water in the reactor was preventing the removal of air from the filter preventing the siphon. 

I ended up beating up some of the plants trying to move the intake with and without the prefilter in hopes to get the siphon going. Today, I reduced the CO2 to about 1 bubble /sec and will go slowly. Light is still at the reduced settings and on for 7 hrs. The hygrophilia augustafolia is one tough plant. All I had left were rooted stems. Miraculously, it sprouted a few leaves. I do not think we have seen the last of them.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Current stats (30-40% water change last night. CO2 running 1hr)):
Ammonia: 0.5 ppm
Nitrite: 0+ ppm (was a little color but nearly zero)
Nitrate: 80+ppm
Phosphate: 3 ppm (API only shows 2 and 5. It is over 2 but not 5 so I guessed)
GH: 4 deg (4 drops)
KH: 2 deg (2 drops) 


So this is also after a Micro dose this morning and , before the water change, a macro dose (EI).

Comments/Thoughts?


So before anyone comments, I will state what I see so we can learn something in the process. I hope someone will point out what I stated incorrectly or held an incorrect belief. 

To start, we are cycling again. Ammonia is on the rise. The Erythromycin killed both good and bad bacteria so we are cycling the tank. We are still at the early stages since we have very little, if any, nitrites. 

Nitrates are a problem. Way too high. Probably should make up my EI liquid fertillizers without NO3. Already have over the 20-30 ppm they recommend so why add more?

Phosphates are, I think, a smidge off. I think they are to be 10% of NO3 but I am not sure raising PO4 to 8 ppm is the right decision. From a quick lookup, I found EI to suggest targets of 


> "Typical EI values, as standard, are: nitrate (NO3) 20ppm (parts per million) per week; potassium (K) 30ppm per week; phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week; magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week and iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week."


If this is correct, my PO4 is good.

Not sure how to convert KH and GH. I can only say that the packaging seems to suggest these are ok for plants. Do not know if this is true or not. 

So, how did I do? teach me!!!

thanks in advance


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

So, based on these numbers, what made the BGA grow like crazy?


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Today's photo.

Things are still looking good. Will do ammonia and Nitrite tests tonight and see where cycling is going. My plan is to wait until it is done cycling before I purchase more plants. You can see just after one day that the empty stems that use to be the hygrophilia (on left and right most back of tank) have sprouted leaves. 

I think my biggest questions would be:

If my tank/water has higher nitrates, can I just leave out nitrates from my fertilizer or do I need to use DI/RO water and put it back in? Not sure if I need to do the second what the value is in that.


What do the water parameters tell? I am still not sure I can 'read' what the parameters tell me and how to fully use them to both keep algae at bay as well as grow healthier plants. Would really appreciate the education.

Do I have all the parameters/stats needed to keep a healthy planted tank? If no, what am I missing? I am thinking I need a potassium test only because it is often listed on bags of fertilizer and is important. Not sure I can go on 'just dose whatever comes with the dry ferts' method and hope. I am a bit more scientific than that.

If anyone either has a website or book that could help me, please list them here. I would love a resource for them.

By the way, for this shot I had the lights turned up all the way. They are still at the reduced level during normal operating times of 11-11:30 am ramp, 11:30 - 18:30 reduced settings, 18:30 - 19:00 ramp down.

Thanks again


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

In case it helps, I have the dry fertilizer sold at Nilocg - EI BASED NPK + CSM+B WITH GH BOOSTER

-2lb KNO3

-1/2lb KH2PO4

-1lb GH booster

-1/2lb CSM+B

-1/2lb Iron Chelate 10%

I made up solutions following their guidelines  for 5ml for 10 gal tank and just dose 15 ml for the 29 gal (plus canister and cerges reactor probably puts me at 30 gal give or take). I dose either macro one day, micro the next, each day.


*5mL per 10 Gallons
*
Fertilizer Measurements
KNO3 46.3 gm	approximately 9 teaspoons
KH2PO4 7 gm	approximately 1 1/4 teaspoons
Plantex CSM+B 29 gm	approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons
plus Fe but I do not recall the amount


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Don’t stop the CO2. It has nothing to do with BGA. Noticing a coincidental link between event A and event B may be just that: coincidence, not, necessarily, causation. It’s how superstitions get started. In fact, some believe that high CO2 inhibits BGA. Low CO2 and high light just starves your plants and that increases the benefit to algae. Focus on long-term health of your plants and that means sufficient CO2 for a given light intensity. BGA loves, and self-induces, low O2 levels. Ripple the surface of your water to increase gas exchange and ensure good circulation to bring that oxygenated water flowing across your substrate and cover your plants in nutrients.

Be sure to stay on the trail of organic build-up: keep the filter clean (dirty filters reduce O2 and add organics), remove dead plant matter and don’t overfeed fish. This helps with both algae and BGA. Recycling is going to add ammonia, which algae and BGA like, so stay on top of the water changes and maintenance.

At 80ppm of NO3 (assuming that’s an accurate measurement and our test kits aren’t accurate) you can reduce your NO3 dosing. A part of that may be due to the cycling (which also consumes O2), so watch it a few times a week for a while and add it back if it gets too low. Let your water changes bring it down. Don’t worry about N ratios, just be sure they are non-limited. PO4 is fine where it is, some like it higher, some like it lower in the 2ppm area. I’d keep it where it is or let swing into the 5ppm area. 

GH is fine, assuming that there is a good balance of Mg and Ca in it, and KH is good. The GH booster is ensuring that correct balance.

There are no affordable potassium kits. Use the RotalaButterfly calculator to gauge this. Err on the high side regarding K. Many of us prefer to put the dry ferts into solution for ease of dosing.

There is a lot of literature on EI, PPS and reams of data in these TPT threads. A good place to start? Take a look at this: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/PlantedTankGuide.html

Long term, my HIGHLY opinionated advice is:
- Get a good handle on the PAR and PUR concepts of lighting - and measure yours - and firmly control your CO2 to match your PAR levels
- Invest in a high-end UV sterilizer
- Read post #29 in this thread: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...l#post11121321


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Thanks Deanna.

The CO2 has been back on now for the last few days. I will bring it back up to the 'green/ light green' level.

Water changes have always been weekly, each weekend with about 25-50% changed. amount depended mostly on amount of detritus than anything else.

I will leave the lighting where it is and slowly increase it. I think I have learned that just because I have EI doses of ferts and plenty of compressed CO2 in the tank that this doesn't guarantee that full light (from my Fluval Planted 3.0) is capable or warranted. 

Is weekly adjustments sufficient amount of time to adjust light intensity or should the duration be longer? How much?

As for gas exchange, my spray bar is along the back wall and I hope it is rippling enough the surface. Will look into adjusting it so it ripples as much as possible. For now, the ugly airstone in the middle will stay until my plants establish better. I was debating a powerhead just for this purpose or get a UV with powerhead. I think I would like to avoid UV just because it is like what I have been doing, treating symptoms, not deducing causation and changing accordingly. I would rather adjust before treating symptoms.

Thanks for the links and I will go over them.

thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Frank


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Deanna said:


> Don’t stop the CO2. It has nothing to do with BGA. Noticing a coincidental link between event A and event B may be just that: coincidence, not, necessarily, causation. It’s how superstitions get started. In fact, some believe that high CO2 inhibits BGA. Low CO2 and high light just starves your plants and that increases the benefit to algae. Focus on long-term health of your plants and that means sufficient CO2 for a given light intensity. BGA loves, and self-induces, low O2 levels. Ripple the surface of your water to increase gas exchange and ensure good circulation to bring that oxygenated water flowing across your substrate and cover your plants in nutrients.
> 
> Be sure to stay on the trail of organic build-up: keep the filter clean (dirty filters reduce O2 and add organics), remove dead plant matter and don’t overfeed fish. This helps with both algae and BGA. Recycling is going to add ammonia, which algae and BGA like, so stay on top of the water changes and maintenance.
> 
> ...


Deanna,

the link doesn't work https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/23-algae/8...l#post11121321[/QUOTE]

I grabbed it from the previous post

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...280537-what-your-pro-tips-2.html#post11121321


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Fly2High said:


> Is weekly adjustments sufficient amount of time to adjust light intensity or should the duration be longer? How much?


In terms of timing, it's about how long before you notice a change in your plants. Earliest is about a week, more likely is two weeks. First, determine how much of the Fluval light you ultimately want (I believe you can adjust the intensity) then set it there. This is the mix of the PAR at the substrate with the amount of light you like for viewing purposes. Once you know the final PAR value, adjust CO2 to this level. I believe in just setting CO2 at a minimum 30 ppm and be done with it. I say "minimum" because I actually push it higher according to my fish tolerance. With a determination of PAR value, you can also now adjust fert dosing. you will have to decide if you want to pursue EI or PPS programs or some mix of the two, just be sure you never limit your ferts.

Your Fluval is med-high light, at least at 100% intensity. That would typically require ~30ppm CO2. If you have it dialed down, less CO2 could be used, but you would need to know the PAR level to make an estimate. If max PAR is 80 at the substrate, and you dial it down by 50%, I don't know if there is a linear relationship which would put PAR at 40. You would probably get some good feedback by starting another thread simply asking about your light and expected PAR at the substrate level for different intensities.




Fly2High said:


> As for gas exchange, my spray bar is along the back wall and I hope it is rippling enough the surface. Will look into adjusting it so it ripples as much as possible. For now, the ugly airstone in the middle will stay until my plants establish better. I was debating a powerhead just for this purpose


You will find many opinions on flow/circulation. My spray bar/filter is not enough to satisfy me concerning circulation. Maybe yours is acceptable. I want to see the leaves/blades on all my plants moving just a little. Powerheads are too intense. There are pumps, such as Hydor Koralia (Amazon) that give a wide gentle flow. On my 29 gal, I have a 240 gph one sitting in a back corner, about two inches below the surface and pointing straight up that gives me the heavy ripple in that area (you don't want to break the surface). 



Fly2High said:


> I think I would like to avoid UV just because it is like what I have been doing, treating symptoms, not deducing causation and changing accordingly. I would rather adjust before treating symptoms.


The type of UVS I'm talking about is not the cheapy types that sit inside the tank and they don't have powerheads. High-end UVS' don't just treat symptoms, they destroy some algae causes (you will never completely eliminate "causation") and also help substantially in killing things that can kill your fish as well as improving what is called redox.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Latest photo attached. Have had a few days of clearer water. Now it seems I am developing diatom issue. Plants are still growing slowly. Hygrofilia augustifolia is coming back. S. repens is showing small leaves but much brown algae on it. Mermaid weed has a very slow growing tuft of leaves extremely slowly growing. Althernathera and Ludwigia are showing new leaves but both are going slow. Foxtail also has extremely small slow growing tuft


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

I have a photo and some readings:

pH: 6.4 (CO2 should not be turning on anytime soon - 10:30 am)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 80+ - very red but still doesn't look as dark as the 160. 
Phosphates: 3 ppm (at least 2+ but less than 5)
GH: 5 deg 
KH: 2 deg 


A few questions:

Why would the pH be so low? Is it because I am a week out and need a cleaning? CO2 I will need to check but it should be off. I could be incorrect in the reading since I was rushing this morning. Will have to double check this again. 

Do those Nitrate absorbing pads work? Can I put one in my canister filter and reduce the Nitrates to something more livable?

I have not added any ferts since Tuesday. I was planning on doing a water change on Wed but time got away from me. Hope to do it tonight. Based on the numbers should I add anything? It appears to me that everything is still good. Is this correct?


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

The unusually low pH was due to CO2. I found that my timer had accidentally been clicked to turn on at 6#0 - 7:30 am, right before I was to take my water samples.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Fly2High said:


> Current stats (30-40% water change last night. CO2 running 1hr)):
> Ammonia: 0.5 ppm
> Nitrite: 0+ ppm (was a little color but nearly zero)
> *Nitrate: 80+ppm*
> ...


Way too much nitrates. IDK what fertz you are dosing, but you have really low plant mass and all that extra "fuel" is being converted into algae.

I think 10-20ppm nitrates is a good target. Do the water changes to maintain nitrates in this range.

Also, your platies will need higher KH for long term health. And the low KH (low buffering) will cause pH swings especially with the CO2.

1) Use baking soda to raise the KH when you introduce new water. I use 1/2 tsp baking soda to every ten gallons of new water. This should raise your KH to the 5-6 range. You want some buffering when you use CO2, and this will be better for the platies. BTW, platies are not the best choice for soft, low pH tanks.

2) Change enough water so your nitrates are < 20 ppm.

3) reduce lighting to 4-5 hours a day until you get the algae under control. Or significantly lower the intensity.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Water changes might not help. The tap already has 30-40 ppm. I was wondering if the nitrate absorption mats would help? Not sure which is more cost effective: using RO water or NO3 mat in the filter

1.5 tsp baking soda has been added at lunch.


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

Fly2High said:


> Water changes might not help. The tap already has 30-40 ppm. I was wondering if the nitrate absorption mats would help? Not sure which is more cost effective: using RO water or NO3 mat in the filter


Or if you tap has that much NO3 in it, you might want to try stopping dosing KNO3 or severely decrease the amount you dose, then just dose P and K and micros.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

If I take out the potassium nitrate, will I need to use potassium sulfate to compensate for the reduction in potassium?

I am using nilocq.com dry ferts (EI dosing with CSM+B). I also added iron.

Package includes:

-2lb KNO3

-1/2lb KH2PO4

-1/2lb K2SO4

-1/2lb CSM+B



I need to check if I got any K2SO4. It seems they now include it with this package. I, for some reason, do not believe it was always included.



EDIT: Nope, no K2SO4. I got the package before it was included and it was listed as optional.


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## Fly2High (Dec 21, 2017)

Things are looking great. Everything is crystal clear. Now to see if the alternanthera and ludwigia have survived and will show some signs of growth. I ended up purchasing some emmersed mermaid weed locally so hopefully they will fair better than the first batch(back left)


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