# Eco complete pro-con



## sweeneycam (Dec 30, 2015)

Is there anyone who has used this? If some of you are aware of my previous posts, I bought a load of ADA Amazonia that turned out to be a dud, constantly browning my water, six months afterwards. Before that I had a laterite first layer capped by sand, and that was a poor choice for a novice to planted tanks. I could never get the black mossy/hair algae to go away and I never was happy. Also the laterite kept surfacing through the sand and super saturating the water column with nutrients. 

I am looking at Eco Complete and I understand the need to dose. I’ll do some researching on dosing later, but what is the care and use of Eco Complete like? Do you vacuum? What’s it’s cycle like? Is it hard for bottom feeders like Corys and Plecos? Is it easy to plant in or to plants constantly pop up? 

Do you cap it? If so, I’m looking at the Black Diamond Blasting Sand. If I cap with blasting sand, how does that change the care of the substrate?

My tank is still the color of coffee, it still has the ADA in it. It’s a 45 gallon tall, low tech, but looking to upgrade with CO2 later. I really want to do an amazon tank, with some large leaf swords, a couple of crypto’s, some moss on driftwood, and a carpet of baby tears. My fish will be a couple of Corys, a bristlenose and a pair of rams.


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## stevewb (Nov 10, 2018)

I have it in my 10 gal low tech. It’s a nightmare for me. Since my roots grow slowly the plants are constantly popping out whenever I am cleaning up. I like the Flourite in my 55 a little more. It holds freshly planted plants a bit better for me


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## sweeneycam (Dec 30, 2015)

Also I have read some of customer reviews from amazon and PetSmart that claim this substrate has killed their fish. Is there any backing in this?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

sweeneycam said:


> Is there anyone who has used this? If some of you are aware of my previous posts, I bought a load of ADA Amazonia that turned out to be a dud, constantly browning my water, six months afterwards. Before that I had a laterite first layer capped by sand, and that was a poor choice for a novice to planted tanks. I could never get the black mossy/hair algae to go away and I never was happy. Also the laterite kept surfacing through the sand and super saturating the water column with nutrients.
> 
> I am looking at Eco Complete and I understand the need to dose. I’ll do some researching on dosing later, but what is the care and use of Eco Complete like? Do you vacuum? What’s it’s cycle like? Is it hard for bottom feeders like Corys and Plecos? Is it easy to plant in or to plants constantly pop up?
> 
> ...



FWIW, I am using Eco Complete and have been since I started the tank - see build journal listed below. To answer some of your questions;
Yes, I vacuum the substrate to some degree every weekend. Mostly skimming over the top as opposed to shoving the vacuum into the substrate. 

Cycle, not sure what you mean. What I have is roughly 3-4 years old now and is still working fine. 

I have had cories for many years - they are fine 

Easy to plant in - no. Can you learn to adapt, yes. Like I said, have a look at either the beginning or end of my journal (big change in appearance). I have at least 2.5" - 3" of the stuff.
My guess is if you tried to cap it with something like Black Diamond Blasting Sand, the finer sand particles would work their way to the bottom glass leaving the lighter, larger Eco Complete on the top.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

sweeneycam said:


> Also I have read some of customer reviews from amazon and PetSmart that claim this substrate has killed their fish. Is there any backing in this?


How do they know the substrate killed their fish? Like @Immortal1 used for many years without issue and had corys and other bottom dwellers. I think if there was a real problem with the substrate the gig would be up and people would stop buying it.

I've planted every kind of stem in it including the smallest HC and never had a problem. If you can't plant in it you clearly aren't using twizzers or aren't using them the right way.


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## tater12 (Mar 8, 2019)

They probably killed their B.B had an ammonia spike, and blamed the eco for the deaths, I replaced 40lbs at a time and didn’t have any problems with it.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

You will not find anyone on this forum have issues with commonly kept substrates with corydoras--- its all good. Every corydoras they ever have had have lived in perfect bliss on Eco-complete for "years". 

Now, talk about discrepancies between substrates--as far as how well they do for their plants ( whats better, whats "junk") -- now, that is an entirely different conversation. The consensus breaks down and the gloves come off. They take their plants _very _seriously. 


Go outside of this forum -different a whole different story. 

If you are worried about corydoras specifically, I would go to the experts: corydorasworld on facebook. 

You want to know how substrates relate to plants- come here.
You want to know how substrate relates to fish- go elsewhere.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Ok, everyone on the forum i lying about their experiences with Eco. Did you ever even use it?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

@Asteroid- Why are you asking me questions directly? Trying to _again _ get me to engage with you so you can run to the moderators because Im just so "mean." 
You ask your questions in general or to the OP.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Discusluv said:


> @Asteroid- Why are you asking me questions directly? Trying to _again _ get me to engage with you so you can run to the moderators because Im just so "mean."
> You ask your questions in general or to the OP.


Because your stating how bad Eco is, so I'm asking if you used it. There is nothing wrong with that. You mentioning that I ran to a moderator BTW is against forum rules so this post is being reported as we speak.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Exactly. 

I sure called that one right. 

And, the moderators stated last time to avoid one another, which I have. But, you have repeatedly sought me out to engage me directly so you can push that button again. 

Very strange behavior.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Don't flatter yourself, I have not sought you out at all. 

I have used Eco Complete like many others and have had no issues long-term with bottom dwellers including Cories. You are disputing people who actually used the stuff with these fish and it appears from your responses that you have never even used Eco Complete.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Your repeated direct responses to me are diminishing the effectiveness of your case to the moderators. 
Oh no, I said "moderators again", you better push that button again.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Not sure why your even here. All you do is insult user experience on the forum:



Discusluv said:


> Not on this forum. I haven't seen a substrate yet that cant be used for corydoras. If you use it- its all good.
> 
> It comes from the same place as the "I dont need a lid on my tank because Ive had my fish for years and they never jump."
> 
> ...





Discusluv said:


> You will not find anyone on this forum have issues with commonly kept substrates with corydoras--- its all good. Every corydoras they ever have had have lived in perfect bliss on Eco-complete for "years".
> 
> Now, talk about discrepancies between substrates--as far as how well they do for their plants ( whats better, whats "junk") -- now, that is an entirely different conversation. The consensus breaks down and the gloves come off. They take their plants _very _seriously. Go outside of this forum -different a whole different story.
> 
> ...


I think your time would be better served at corydorasworld on facebook


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## stevewb (Nov 10, 2018)

Well that escalated quickly


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## sweeneycam (Dec 30, 2015)

Yeah it did. Unfortunately discus did not really read my original post, which also discusses the pertinent questions of how this will affect plants as well. So yes, I am concerned about my three and four year old corys and pleco, but I want a vibrant planted tank too.

Maybe it’s not corydoraworld I neee to go to, but find a different planted tank forum. If we can please just get back to the question of other people who have experience with this substrate if you can explain to me it’s viability as a long term, low problem sub, I would really appreciate it.


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## stevewb (Nov 10, 2018)

sweeneycam said:


> If we can please just get back to the question of other people who have experience with this substrate if you can explain to me it’s viability as a long term, low problem sub, I would really appreciate it.


Like I said I have Flourite and Eco Complete rn and like the Seachem a lot better. But I think I’ll try black sandblasting sand next time around


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## sweeneycam (Dec 30, 2015)

Thank you, asteroid thank you for your help on previous posts as well. I do not want to dump another $80 down the train as it were, so does eco complete have any of the same “bad batch” problems as before? Also Flourite, is that a Seachem brand? Is it sand or soil?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

sweeneycam said:


> Yeah it did. Unfortunately discus did not really read my original post, which also discusses the pertinent questions of how this will affect plants as well. So yes, I am concerned about my three and four year old corys and pleco, but I want a vibrant planted tank too.
> 
> Maybe it’s not corydoraworld I neee to go to, but find a different planted tank forum. If we can please just get back to the question of other people who have experience with this substrate if you can explain to me it’s viability as a long term, low problem sub, I would really appreciate it.



Not sure if this will help any but the video below is from 2017. It does not specifically focus in on the albino cory's but they sure do photo bomb enough. With that said, in my build thread you can see these same cory's in post 12 dated 4-18-2015 (approximately about when I bought them). As of today, I still have 4 of the original 5 albino cory's and yes, they are pretty big - at least 1.5" long and pretty fat, LOL. My apologies for some of the previous posts on this thread - not everyone on here seems to "help" as much as others.


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## sweeneycam (Dec 30, 2015)

stevewb said:


> sweeneycam said:
> 
> 
> > If we can please just get back to the question of other people who have experience with this substrate if you can explain to me it’s viability as a long term, low problem sub, I would really appreciate it.
> ...


What do you not like about Flourite and the Eco Complete?


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## sweeneycam (Dec 30, 2015)

Immortal1 said:


> sweeneycam said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah it did. Unfortunately discus did not really read my original post, which also discusses the pertinent questions of how this will affect plants as well. So yes, I am concerned about my three and four year old corys and pleco, but I want a vibrant planted tank too.
> ...


What is that substrate? Also that was a beautiful bristlenose. I’ve had mine for four years now. He’s my favorite


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

@sweeneycam - the substrate is 2 different versions of Eco Complete. If I remember right, 3:1 of regular red Eco to a black Eco. Basically mixed the bags together.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

sweeneycam said:


> Yeah it did. Unfortunately discus did not really read my original post, which also discusses the pertinent questions of how this will affect plants as well. So yes, I am concerned about my three and four year old corys and pleco, but I want a vibrant planted tank too.
> 
> Maybe it’s not corydoraworld I neee to go to, but find a different planted tank forum. If we can please just get back to the question of other people who have experience with this substrate if you can explain to me it’s viability as a long term, low problem sub, I would really appreciate it.


 Since your referring to me directly--I read it thoroughly, thank you. 

You specifically asked if it was "too hard" for corydoras. It is.

I also gave you a name to find expert advice ( on corydoras) and weigh your options. 

Take it or leave it.


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

Had the eco complete black in my 10g. First tank in probably 22yrs or so. It was ok. The plant roots were looking great when I redid it and went with BDBS. I had corys on it for about a month before putting them in my 40B. They were not able to root thru the substrate. The whiskers looked great and they were healthy they just couldnt really move the stuff around. Its basically crushed up lava rock from the looks of it. 

Kind of hard to change plants in IMHO because its very abrasive and sticky if you will. Not like normal smooth gravel that moves out of the way easy (if that makes sense). 

In my 40b I started with the red flourite kind of capped with a natural smooth gravel. Unfortunately I didnt wash it before hand because I got one of the old bags that says not to. It was like mud and after a couple months of vacuuming the gravel and water changes I couldnt get my tank to clear up. All the plants seemed to do well with it and had very good roots when I redid it this weekend. 

I switched the 40b to straight sand. 

Anyhow thats my very limited experience. I think if your doing just plants and non bottom fish its fine. With Corys I would get something they can root around in although they seemed to do fine health wise on it.


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## sweeneycam (Dec 30, 2015)

Discusluv said:


> Since your referring to me directly--I read it thoroughly, thank you.
> 
> You specifically asked if it was "too hard" for corydoras. It is.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice, as it were.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

sweeneycam said:


> Thank you for your advice, as it were.


You bet- any time.:wink2:


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## stevewb (Nov 10, 2018)

sweeneycam said:


> Also Flourite, is that a Seachem brand? Is it sand or soil?


Yes Seachem brand. It’s actually a clay. It’s inert butthe idea is its supposed to absorb nutrients and release them or something I believe. Maybe. Don’t quote mE



sweeneycam;11191651 What do you not like about Flourite and the Eco Complete?[/QUOTE said:


> I like the Flourite. It’s just expensive and for me I’m willing to try sand. See if I can produce the same results.
> 
> Eco Complete I can’t seem to keep my plants grounded. Main issue the roots are slow growing but still frustrating shoving plants down over and over. Didn’t have that much of an issue with the Flourite.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

So about Eco complete...

Used it: 
I used eco complete and other aquasoils for years. Eco complete was by far the easier one to use and I like the 'multi size' of the granules, less dust, no rinsing required, etc. I also liked that it seemed to provide a bit of buffering capabilities as I have soft water (which did raise my pH a bit- but I was ok with that).
It is lighter weight then some other aquasoils, but I do my plants tied to rocks/driftwood or on mes that is weighted down.

Went to something different:
When I stared my tank up again I went with a pure gravel.... I hate it. Looked cheap in a nano tank, and didnt provide the small granules to look proportional to my mosses (like my carpets of coral moss).

Going back to Eco complete:
So I am in the midst of mixing in a scoop a day to substrate. You generally dont want to 'cap' it as you want it to 'breath' and caping it with sand will surely just fall through (I tried that to make a 'path' in my old tank and had to reapply every other week.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I would echo what @livebearerlove stated about Eco. I found it very clean, easy to work with. I didn't have really any trouble planting in it with tweezers. Push down and pull up a bit to let the granules fall in around the base of the stem and it was fine.

Allowing cories to dig in a planted tank is a mixed bag since they will uproot plants. Just because they can't dig in eco like they can in sand, doesn't mean the eco is not a safe substrate for them. The best advise you can get with planted tanks is to read about user experience. The overwhelming preponderance of this experience is that Eco Complete is safe for cories.


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## Js'AquaStuff (Apr 11, 2018)

This is my experience with Eco-Complete.
It's literally just crushed black lava rock mixed with black diamond sand. The reason for this is that mimics the way it works in natural rivers and such. On top is a coarse gravel and then it begins to get smaller in grain size the further into the substrate you get. So the way of thinking that they have is fish poo, random detritus and uneaten fish food will fall between the cracks of the bigger grain size on top and begin to be broken down by the bacteria that lives there. Which makes it great for low tech, long term setups because the nutrients to the roots never really ends. You do not want to gravel vac this stuff ever. Speaking of bacteria. Eco-Complete is crazy porous and houses tons of beneficial bacteria. Making ammonia and nitrite non existent. ( There is always a very small amount ) If you can afford Aquasoil I highly recommend that over the Eco. I have a lot of experience with both and Aquasoil is far more dominant all the way across the board. I hope this was useful info. Have a great one! ✌🙂


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## reddhawkk (Dec 28, 2011)

I have a blackwater tank with Eco for substrate. I like the way it looks. There are easier substrates to plant in. My Corries are several years old, fat, and have great barbels. My plants are doing well also. Overall not bad but I am now using Saf-T-Sorb as a substrate in my other tanks as I find it a little easier to work with and it buffers my hard water. It looks good too.


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

My daughter got a bad batch of eco complete. Total tank wipe-out, the last passed about a month in. I sent her home at Christmas with a couple of home raised albino BNs. They seemed fine - for 3 days. She found them both dead the fourth day. I cycled a canister filter for her so that wasn't the issue. Last I heard, she'd gone to a nearby petco and bought gravel. I don't think she wanted to fool with the mess flourite makes.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

livebearerlove said:


> So about Eco complete...
> 
> Used it:
> I used eco complete and other aquasoils for years. Eco complete was by far the easier one to use and I like the 'multi size' of the granules, less dust, no rinsing required, etc. I also liked that it seemed to provide a bit of buffering capabilities as I have soft water (which did raise my pH a bit- but I was ok with that).
> ...


By you saying it raised your PH... Did you check again after initial setup. I was under the impression it was mainly inert. Not able to raise ph apart from initial setup. it balancing out and returning to normal quickly. Have no experience with this substrate btw.


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

sweeneycam said:


> Is there anyone who has used this? If some of you are aware of my previous posts, I bought a load of ADA Amazonia that turned out to be a dud, constantly browning my water, six months afterwards. Before that I had a laterite first layer capped by sand, and that was a poor choice for a novice to planted tanks. I could never get the black mossy/hair algae to go away and I never was happy. Also the laterite kept surfacing through the sand and super saturating the water column with nutrients.
> 
> I am looking at Eco Complete and I understand the need to dose. I’ll do some researching on dosing later, but what is the care and use of Eco Complete like? Do you vacuum? What’s it’s cycle like? Is it hard for bottom feeders like Corys and Plecos? Is it easy to plant in or to plants constantly pop up?
> 
> ...


Used EC in my 29 gallon, original setup. It's my avatar pic. Grew everything just fine, plants looked great with full EI dosing and CO2, but it now sits in a 5 gallon bucket unused and I, personally, would never buy it again, nor would I recommend it for a variety of reasons. It's simply an overpriced inert substrate that's not terribly easy to plant in because of larger grain size. I've been using pool filter sand now for quite some time with excellent results. Pool filter sand is suitable for all plant/ root types, it's finer grain and very easy to plant in and work with while being heavy enough to not get waterborne and end up in your filter. A 50 lbs bag of PFS will cost you significantly less than a 20 lbs bag of EC, stuff is real cheap. You mentioned Black Diamond Blasting Sand, a lot of folks on here who have tanks you can actually view use that as well, it's also dirt cheap and easy to work with. I'd recommend that, if you're going for a black substrate, you use that by itself. Perfectly suitable on its own, with proper fertilizing of course, and your cory's will have an easier time picking food off a finer substrate. No reason to pay for EC :wink2:


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

I also had a batch of eco complete that I couldn't keep livestock in. It also has no nutrient value and is very hard, causing lots of scratches to the bottom of the glass.

I'm wondering how Aquasoil turned the OP's tank brown. All I use is Aquasoil for a while now and I've never seen that. Some of the old stuff 8-10 years ago used to turn the water yellow but I haven't seen brown water.


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## RyanScharf (Mar 29, 2019)

Why not just go all Black Diamond Blasting sand and dose the water column?


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

symstep said:


> By you saying it raised your PH... Did you check again after initial setup. I was under the impression it was mainly inert. Not able to raise ph apart from initial setup. it balancing out and returning to normal quickly. Have no experience with this substrate btw.


When I used it, it helped raise my KH./GH which did bring my pH up from 7.2 to 7.6... now its at 7.4 (I needed a better gh/kh so I was not too concerned).


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

I've been using it for well over a decade now, maybe 15 years. Same bags still from the get go, never any issue's. It's either your thing or not. I concentrate mostly on crypt's these days, and it's been perfect for them. Harder to plant when comparing to soil or sand, sure. But there isn't anything I haven't been able to plant in it. I think the debate is more personal preference then anything. Also if your ok with it's own aesthetics. I'm very hands on with my tank's, and it not being sandy, or cloudy in nature it make's that aspect easier too.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

If I recall correctly there was a bad batch of eco many years ago that sent phosphates through the roof. Bad batches could happen to anything that is sold. In fact I just went through a bad batch of dog food that was recalled and sent my dog to the vet. 

Overall Eco is a clean, easy to use substrate that all plants will grow in (as long as you dose). It's perfectly safe for all fish including bottom dwellers.


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## babystarz (Sep 25, 2012)

sweeneycam said:


> my original post, which also discusses the pertinent questions of how this will affect plants as well. So yes, I am concerned about my three and four year old corys and pleco, but I want a vibrant planted tank too.
> 
> if you can explain to me it’s viability as a long term, low problem sub, I would really appreciate it.


SO just to be crystal clear, Eco-Complete isn't going to do anything to help or hurt your plants because it's inert in terms of plant nutrients. I wouldn't view it any differently than another inert substrate (gravel, sand whatever) in the sense that you will need to dose with fertilizers to get vibrant plants to stay happy. I've used it in many, many tanks and it has not hurt any of my flora or fauna. I do like that it comes in water that may still have some live beneficial bacteria (I say may because I don't know what conditions the bacteria requires for survival and I'm sure sometimes it's no longer active when the product gets to the consumer). The real benefit to Eco-Complete in my opinion is that you don't have to wash it and can add it directly to your tank, plant it, fill it up and you're done.

If you're looking for a substrate that will provide nutrients to your plants, Eco-Complete isn't the right choice. However, any substrate with nutrients will deplete over time anyway so eventually you would be back to the whole water column/root tab dosing situation at that point regardless. And remember that some aquatic plants don't even have roots so depending on what you're planting they will not likely benefit much from substrate nutrients.

Bump:


RyanScharf said:


> Why not just go all Black Diamond Blasting sand and dose the water column?


I think most people end up switching to BDBS at some point because it's so much cheaper and many people find it more aesthetically pleasing. The only downside is the hauling 50 pound bags and washing part (I know not everyone washes BDBS but I find it necessary). That's the reason I haven't entirely converted.


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## babystarz (Sep 25, 2012)

sweeneycam said:


> Do you cap it? If so, I’m looking at the Black Diamond Blasting Sand. If I cap with blasting sand, how does that change the care of the substrate?


Capping it with BDBS will not make a difference in terms of substrate care. If you're looking at BDBS at all, I'd suggest just forgetting the Eco-Complete and doing only BDBS. A sand cap and gravel will tend to mix with each other over time no matter how careful you are.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

babystarz said:


> SO just to be crystal clear, Eco-Complete isn't going to do anything to help or hurt your plants because it's inert in terms of plant nutrients. I wouldn't view it any differently than another inert substrate (gravel, sand whatever) in the sense that you will need to dose with fertilizers to get vibrant plants to stay happy. I've used it in many, many tanks and it has not hurt any of my flora or fauna. I do like that it comes in water that may still have some live beneficial bacteria (I say may because I don't know what conditions the bacteria requires for survival and I'm sure sometimes it's no longer active when the product gets to the consumer). The real benefit to Eco-Complete in my opinion is that you don't have to wash it and can add it directly to your tank, plant it, fill it up and you're done.
> 
> If you're looking for a substrate that will provide nutrients to your plants, Eco-Complete isn't the right choice. However, any substrate with nutrients will deplete over time anyway so eventually you would be back to the whole water column/root tab dosing situation at that point regardless. And remember that some aquatic plants don't even have roots so depending on what you're planting they will not likely benefit much from substrate nutrients.
> 
> ...


It being inert to a extent yes but I believe you cant compare it to other inert gravels because of CEC. I think that is why a lot of us are going for the eco complete for the cation exchange capacity to assist with acquiring nutrients from the water column/substrate and holding those nutrients within it for root feeding plants.
Eco CEC - high
Regular aquarium gravel CEC - low 
I am a newbie so this should be confirmed, Just in case somehow I am confused.

Bump: Thank you for your reply. My PH is already at 7.6 and I do not want it any higher. I think I am going to go start a new thread about this issue Since your experience does call what others have said into question. Id like to get to the bottom of this.

Bump:


livebearerlove said:


> When I used it, it helped raise my KH./GH which did bring my pH up from 7.2 to 7.6... now its at 7.4 (I needed a better gh/kh so I was not too concerned).


Thank you for your reply. My PH is already at 7.6 and I do not want it any higher. I think I am going to go start a new thread about this issue Since your experience does call what others have said into question. Id like to get to the bottom of this.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

I just added more driftwood.... 
IF I had specific fish that cared about point this or point that, deviation (+/-). Mostly I think fish just want it steady and will adjust


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## AguaScape (Oct 28, 2018)

I used Eco-(in)Complete capped with BDBS. I wish I had just gone with BDBS only. Every time I pull out a rooted plant (no matter how gently) I end up pulling up a lot of Eco-Complete with it. I have reached the point where I have quit trying to re-bury the Eco. As mentioned before, Eco is pretty much inert. IMO, BDBS by itself looks better and plants easier.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

AguaScape said:


> I used Eco-(in)Complete capped with BDBS. I wish I had just gone with BDBS only. Every time I pull out a rooted plant (no matter how gently) I end up pulling up a lot of Eco-Complete with it. I have reached the point where I have quit trying to re-bury the Eco. As mentioned before, Eco is pretty much inert. IMO, BDBS by itself looks better and plants easier.


What was your reasoning for capping it?


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## AguaScape (Oct 28, 2018)

Asteroid said:


> What was your reasoning for capping it?


I prefer the look of BDBS, and sand is much easier to plant in.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

AguaScape said:


> I prefer the look of BDBS, and sand is much easier to plant in.


Not a big fan of capping anything just for that reason. Anything on the bottom will pull through when uprooting if you want to move stuff around. Most obvious of course is light sand over dirt. The aesthetics is personal preference I never found it that difficult to plant in though. Push down and pull up slightly.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

symstep said:


> It being inert to a extent yes but I believe you cant compare it to other inert gravels because of CEC. I think that is why a lot of us are going for the eco complete for the cation exchange capacity to assist with acquiring nutrients from the water column/substrate and holding those nutrients within it for root feeding plants.
> Eco CEC - high
> Regular aquarium gravel CEC - low
> I am a newbie so this should be confirmed, Just in case somehow I am confused.



A little bit inert is like a little bit pregnant....
It is often repeated that EC has a high CEC. I've not seen any proof of that. Flourite has been tested and has a low CEC. I just don't think EC is much different. I think the mulm that collects in it has a high CEC


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Kubla said:


> A little bit inert is like a little bit pregnant....
> It is often repeated that EC has a high CEC. I've not seen any proof of that. Flourite has been tested and has a low CEC. I just don't think EC is much different. I think the mulm that collects in it has a high CEC


I have read that iron among other elements will leech out of the lava rock but in such small quantities the plants probably don't even notice. So if that's true then technically... it isn't inert. Since nothing in the tank may seem to notice then might it as well be inert? possibly. So I felt by saying ''inert to a extent'' was fair rather then just saying you are wrong.  Also CEC criteria is surface area while being a negatively charged particle and We all know regular aquarium gravels surface area is nothing compared to lava rock, hence us using lava rock for biological filtration. Again I am new to the aqua game so others that read do your own research, Just in case I am a little bit wrong... 

Bump:


Kubla said:


> A little bit inert is like a little bit pregnant....
> It is often repeated that EC has a high CEC. I've not seen any proof of that. Flourite has been tested and has a low CEC. I just don't think EC is much different. I think the mulm that collects in it has a high CEC


I have read that iron among other elements will leech out of the lava rock but in such small quantities the plants probably don't even notice. So if that's true then technically... it isn't inert. Since nothing in the tank may seem to notice then might it as well be inert? possibly. So I felt by saying ''inert to a extent'' was fair rather then just saying you are wrong.  Also CEC criteria is surface area while being a negatively charged particle and We all know regular aquarium gravels surface area is nothing compared to lava rock, hence us using lava rock for biological filtration. Again I am new to the aqua game so others that read do your own research, Just in case I am a little bit wrong...


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

Kubla said:


> A little bit inert is like a little bit pregnant....


Quote of the week!


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## babystarz (Sep 25, 2012)

symstep said:


> It being inert to a extent yes but I believe you cant compare it to other inert gravels because of CEC. I think that is why a lot of us are going for the eco complete for the cation exchange capacity to assist with acquiring nutrients from the water column/substrate and holding those nutrients within it for root feeding plants.


I'm calling it inert because it doesn't do anything noticeable in my experience. I still have to use root tabs with it, as opposed to something like potting soil. So whatever nutrients it adds aren't substantial enough to keep my plants healthy long-term on its own. Therefore I treat it like gravel.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

livebearerlove said:


> Quote of the week!


I know right.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

babystarz said:


> I'm calling it inert because it doesn't do anything noticeable in my experience. I still have to use root tabs with it, as opposed to something like potting soil. So whatever nutrients it adds aren't substantial enough to keep my plants healthy long-term on its own. Therefore I treat it like gravel.


Yeah it might as well be inert based on my research. You tubers like the aquarium co op guy say that the CEC though is high enough to take the nutrients from your root tabs and that you dose into the water column and store it more efficiently in the substrate rather then it washing away into the water column. Of course all tanks are different but according to the united states department of agriculture, CEC is very important even tho some of the experienced members on here don't seem to think so. So I am going to bail on this thread  Also thank you for liking my "breeding amano shrimp thread" I really appreciate it. Good luck with all of your future endeavors.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok, "inert to an extent" does make sense to me now. I'm still questioning the CEC. I've never seen where anyone has measured it. Everyone just keeps saying it's high. I just don't see much difference between flourite and EC. Flourite has been tested and measured at 1.7 CEC. That is quite low. Why would EC have a high CEC compared to Flourite?


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