# substrate ideas



## Stokely (Jan 9, 2015)

Greetings, looking to set up a 120 to 180 in the not-so-distant-hopefully-future. Was curious about substrates for a low-tech, no c02 tank. I currently have pool filter sand in my 75g, which is of course inert. I like it except for the too-white color and may try to find some darker stuff in my area.

Plants-wise I really love some of the val-heavy tanks I've seen and I'd like to concentrate on those for the background if I can make them work. (Where I swim and kayak here in FL we have eel grass everywhere in the rivers, and I think that is the same plant...just makes me think "river habitat" when I see it.) I have some crypts for fore-mid ground right now and would like to try out dwarf sag or another low plant for the foreground in the new tank. I have a number of anubias and java fern doing well too but of course they can go anywhere 

Cost for a big tank for eco-complete or caribsea sands is...yikes. That said, if I can't find a better color PFS OR it makes more sense for the plants to go with something different I'll do it.

My favorite color is probably a tan natural sand color. Well, my favorite color for the tank bottom is green  So if it takes something other than PFS to get the green so be it


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

Check out AquaQuartz PFS from FairmountSantrol. I've got a 50 lbs bag about to go into my 29 gallon, it's a nice tan color. I think the one ACE Hardware sells is HTH...something like that. I believe it's a nice tan color too, also cheaper than the AquaQuartz.


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Stokely said:


> Greetings, looking to set up a 120 to 180 in the not-so-distant-hopefully-future. Was curious about substrates for a low-tech, no c02 tank. I currently have pool filter sand in my 75g, which is of course inert. I like it except for the too-white color and may try to find some darker stuff in my area.
> 
> Plants-wise I really love some of the val-heavy tanks I've seen and I'd like to concentrate on those for the background if I can make them work. (Where I swim and kayak here in FL we have eel grass everywhere in the rivers, and I think that is the same plant...just makes me think "river habitat" when I see it.) I have some crypts for fore-mid ground right now and would like to try out dwarf sag or another low plant for the foreground in the new tank. I have a number of anubias and java fern doing well too but of course they can go anywhere
> 
> ...


layer the bottom with regular potting soil and top it off with a layer of your favorite sand to cap it would the cheapest way. and by far cheaper than buying bags of eco complete.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

BDBS (Black Diamond blasting sand) coal slag, it is inert just like eco.

Nothing wrong with capped topsoil.


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## The Bungulo (Aug 28, 2017)

IntotheWRX said:


> layer the bottom with regular potting soil and top it off with a layer of your favorite sand to cap it would the cheapest way. and by far cheaper than buying bags of eco complete.


love dirteds. Sand is 100% reccomended, love it, cleaner than gravel if you buy a wavemaker, because instead of waste falling in between rocks, it stays on sand and get sucked into filter. Estes marine is by far the best sand on the market. (does not affect pH)


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## bigbadjon (Aug 6, 2015)

If you otherwise like pool filter and and are in Florida, Rural King sells a darker type that is more brown.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

I'm a fan of sand colored PFS, but big box store (Sacrete) play sand also works well.


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## Stokely (Jan 9, 2015)

HTH is what I have...in the bag it looks off-white but in the tank it's a bit too bright for my taste. I'll check into Rural King.

I'll do some research on the idea of dirt, it's something I see mentioned but hadn't considered. I imagine you don't want to disturb that layer of soil, wouldn't it get loose in the tank?


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Stokely said:


> HTH is what I have...in the bag it looks off-white but in the tank it's a bit too bright for my taste. I'll check into Rural King.
> 
> I'll do some research on the idea of dirt, it's something I see mentioned but hadn't considered. I imagine you don't want to disturb that layer of soil, wouldn't it get loose in the tank?


Sand capped 'dirt' tanks are coveted by some but I have doubts (and I'm an organic gardener with a 3000 sq. ft. veggie garden), Others like the commercial substrates for planted tanks. These too are basically inert and very expensive for what they are. As for 'dirt', there really isn't much nutrients in 1" of washed out soil (ask any farmer what he could grow in 1" of soil!), and replanting any rooted plants can get real messy as you pull up dirt along with roots. 
For what it's worth, I'll stick to PFS or coarse play sand.


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

AbbeysDad said:


> Sand capped 'dirt' tanks are coveted by some but I have doubts (and I'm an organic gardener with a 3000 sq. ft. veggie garden), Others like the commercial substrates for planted tanks. These too are basically inert and very expensive for what they are. As for 'dirt', there really isn't much nutrients in 1" of washed out soil (ask any farmer what he could grow in 1" of soil!), and replanting any rooted plants can get real messy as you pull up dirt along with roots.
> For what it's worth, I'll stick to PFS or coarse play sand.



True. Most organic gardens get a top dressing of compost/EWC thicker than 1 inch. Dirt tanks just don't seem like they would be efficient or consistent enough to sustain aquatic plants for very long. In the end, you'll have to dose the water column anyway. I don't see the reason for leeching unknown decomposing organic matter into the water column of tank that houses both flora and fuana. To me, the risk outweigh the reward. Better to just start inert and have control over what goes into your water, IMO.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

The biggest issue with dirt in this case is it does nothing to address the OP about a finding a darker color sand.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

AbbeysDad said:


> I'm a fan of sand colored PFS, but big box store (Sacrete) play sand also works well.


 does this not compact?


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

madcrafted said:


> AbbeysDad said:
> 
> 
> > Sand capped 'dirt' tanks are coveted by some but I have doubts (and I'm an organic gardener with a 3000 sq. ft. veggie garden), Others like the commercial substrates for planted tanks. These too are basically inert and very expensive for what they are. As for 'dirt', there really isn't much nutrients in 1" of washed out soil (ask any farmer what he could grow in 1" of soil!), and replanting any rooted plants can get real messy as you pull up dirt along with roots.
> ...


 I tend to lean towards your school of thought more, I like having control over variables.


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

Stokely said:


> I'll do some research on the idea of dirt, it's something I see mentioned but hadn't considered. I imagine you don't want to disturb that layer of soil, wouldn't it get loose in the tank?





Kubla said:


> The biggest issue with dirt in this case is it does nothing to address the OP about a finding a darker color sand.


...


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## jarsofkimchee (Nov 22, 2011)

Id suggest montmorillonite clays such as turface or safetsorb


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Kubla said:


> The biggest issue with dirt in this case is it does nothing to address the OP about a finding a darker color sand.


were all doing our best to help out the OP


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

KrypleBerry said:


> does this not compact?


Re: Pool Filter Sand (PFS) -
The size and shape of PFS prevents compacting, otherwise it wouldn't be a very good filter media. The same is true for relatively coarse play sand.
It is the very fine (granulated sugar sized and smaller particles) sands that compact to impede water flow and root growth (not to mention creating anoxic regions at fairly shallow depths). These should be avoided.


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## Stokely (Jan 9, 2015)

Thanks for all the replies! LOL I clicked back on this thread because it was about substrate and then realized it was my thread 

Rural King was one suggestion for more nature sand, unfortunately none of the ones in FL have it. Neither Home Depot nor Lowes had any. I'll try a couple pool stores, worst case if I don't like the sand I can use it as slightly-expensive paver base  The brand I already had is HTH from Ace. Speaking of this, I put a bunch of java fern/anubias pieces in my tank that I had glued to wood and rocks. Just a temporary spot, but the effect was that it covered up much of the white sandy areas...surprise, bothered me much less!

My jungle vals have started to produce offshoots now, which makes me happy. Since these seem to like sand, and I really want these as a curtain background, sand is likely what i'll stick with. I'll continue to look for a darker color though.


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## Messypuddle (Apr 20, 2018)

Has anyone had any luck with peat moss? I'm looking to start a new planted tank for shrimp breeding.


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

Messypuddle said:


> Has anyone had any luck with peat moss? I'm looking to start a new planted tank for shrimp breeding.


Peat moss as a substrate? I wouldn't do it. It is known to soak up calcium and magnesium, making it impossible to keep a steady GH... which is important for the molting process. Peat moss makes a great organic base for a veggie garden, though.


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## Messypuddle (Apr 20, 2018)

madcrafted said:


> Peat moss as a substrate? I wouldn't do it. It is known to soak up calcium and magnesium, making it impossible to keep a steady GH... which is important for the molting process. Peat moss makes a great organic base for a veggie garden, though.


Sorry, but I'm new to this. What is GH?


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

Messypuddle said:


> Sorry, but I'm new to this. What is GH?


GH stands for general hardness. It is the measurement of calcium and magnesium salts in your water. API makes a test kit for this that also includes KH (carbonate hardness). You'll want to test for these levels if raising shrimp. Different species shrimp have different requirements. You'll want to target the correct range for the shrimp you plan to keep.

EDIT* I see that you started your own thread for this subject. Apologies to the OP for the hijack.


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## Messypuddle (Apr 20, 2018)

madcrafted said:


> GH stands for general hardness. It is the measurement of calcium and magnesium salts in your water. API makes a test kit for this that also includes KH (carbonate hardness). You'll want to test for these levels if raising shrimp. Different species shrimp have different requirements. You'll want to target the correct range for the shrimp you plan to keep.


Good to know! My local water is pretty hard ( PH 8.8 from the tap :surprise: ), I'll definitely take a look. Thanks!


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

I, too, prefer inert substrate. The water column can match any active substrate concerning nutrient availability. If you add RODI water to that, you can control your parameters with less fiddling and avoid longer term parameter drift as the active substrate loses it's nutrient benefits.

You are right to be concerned about consistent particle sizes and shapes to avoid compacting the substrate and inhibiting flow through the substrate. I would avoid play sand as it is a mix of fines that can compact. Pool filter sand is inexpensive and much better in terms of compacting. Avoid sands derived from limestone if you want inert substrate. Test any sand not sold for aquariums before using them. Place some water out for 24 hours to de-gas it and record ph, GH and KH of the water before adding sand, then add about an inch of sand , then test it for pH, GH and KH every day for a few days. If it remains steady with the initial water readings, it is inert.

Now, from a personal taste viewpoint: I like to see a fair amount of my substrate having paths and open areas. About 60% of my substrate surface is planted. So, I want pretty substrate. As you know, Super Naturals, by CaribSea is expensive as compared to pool filter sand. However, I found that the Super Naturals Peace River product is really nice. Your description of your target sounds just like mine was and this may be a perfect match in terms of a soft beige appearing color with some interest. Particle size is actually smaller than it appears to be on their website. I put an inch of their Sunset Gold sand down and capped it with 2" of the Peace River. If you plan on covering your substrate with plants, then I'd opt for the pool filter sand.


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## goodbytes (Aug 18, 2014)

They've both already been mentioned, but out of the handfull of substrates I've tried my favorites by far are Black Diamond Blasting Sand and Safe-T-Sorb. Both of these are available locally at Tractor Supply Company and they are both radically inexpensive. Plus they look pretty sharp.


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