# Regulator Build



## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Nice regulator and thats a killer setup.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

I doubt it was used once. If it really was used once, the gauge wouldn't have needed to be replaced. Anyway, since the outlet pressure of the CO2 tank is 842psi, you can change it to a 1500psi or 2000psi gauge so that it's more accurate.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I doubt it was used once. If it really was used once, the gauge wouldn't have needed to be replaced. Anyway, since the outlet pressure of the CO2 tank is 842psi, you can change it to a 1500psi or 2000psi gauge so that it's more accurate.


I tend to agree with you but it was a good price so I took a chance. I bought a 4000 psi gauge as that's what it was equipped with originally, plus the only one I could find, and a steal (imo) at $17 shipped. I think the original gauge would have worked OK but the difference between a $186 setup with mismatched gauges vs a $203 setup with matching gauges gives me a bigger smile when I look at it. Plus if I ever resell it then I can probably get a lot more if it's in the original condition.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Nice regulator. I would pitch the aluminum nut & nipple, and get a stainless steel or chrome plated one. Looks much better.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

What is the watt rating of GEM solenoid? 

You have to be really good luck to find a predyne 1/8 npt port solenoid that is less than 3 watts, these models are really rare.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

exv152 said:


> Nice regulator. I would pitch the aluminum nut & nipple, and get a stainless steel or chrome plated one. Looks much better.


Unfortunately they are very rare. The only source I could find was $75 which is about 4 times more than I wanted to spend.



Bettatail said:


> What is the watt rating of GEM solenoid?
> 
> You have to be really good luck to find a predyne 1/8 npt port solenoid that is less than 3 watts, these models are really rare.


It's 6 watts. I know it'll produce extra heat but the price difference was so large I couldn't justify going with something better.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

That Swagelok metering valve a bit large, no? I'm not sure if you can use it as it's a Integral Bonnet Needle Valve and not those low flow, fine tuning valves. 

Fear not, if you're willing to spend the 20 ish dollrs, there are metering Swagelok around that.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> That Swagelok metering valve a bit large, no? I'm not sure if you can use it as it's a Integral Bonnet Needle Valve and not those low flow, fine tuning valves.
> 
> Fear not, if you're willing to spend the 20 ish dollrs, there are metering Swagelok around that.


It has a CV of 0.09 which is fine tunable based on what I read. Is that not right? Uncertainties like this are why I posted the thread. It's all new to me.

[EDIT]: The Swagelok S-series needle valves (which are considered some of the top of the line and which is on my other regulator) have a CV of 0.09 also. The SS-ORF2 requires 8 full rotations to be open.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

I'm not familiar with that Swagelok series, but I know they have metering valves made for low flow.

I can't see how they would have two products competing with each other. 

Looking at the graph, I'm pretty sure this can't be used for our hobby. You're dealing with 0.X with this valve compare to 0.00X with the S. 

I have an S series metering valve, and it's stats are all lower than the valve you mention. Even with a venires handle, at 2 - 3 turns, you're dealing with a bps so high you can't even count. 

Beside, I think there are some NuPro and S series on the bay for around that price. I always seem to see them for 20 - 40 dollars, take a look.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I'm not familiar with that Swagelok series, but I know they have metering valves made for low flow.
> 
> I can't see how they would have two products competing with each other.
> 
> ...


You're probably right but I've already bought it and will try. I've been watching eBay for the past 2 weeks and haven't seen anything familiar for < $70. 

On a side note, I have an S series with a vernier handle and mine is turned up about 10 rotations to get a good CO2 rate. Not sure what the difference would be. I'm still hoping this larger valve will work well enough. I knew it wouldn't be as nice as the S-series but it was < 1/2 the cost.

EDIT: <crossing my fingers>Guy here says he saw someone claiming success with the O series needle valves: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/357622-new-to-co2/page-3.. I really hope it works. I don't want to be out $30 + more for another valve...


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

rdmustang1 said:


> You're probably right but I've already bought it and will try. I've been watching eBay for the past 2 weeks and haven't seen anything familiar for < $70.
> 
> On a side note, I have an S series with a vernier handle and mine is turned up about 10 rotations to get a good CO2 rate. Not sure what the difference would be. I'm still hoping this larger valve will work well enough. I knew it wouldn't be as nice as the S-series but it was < 1/2 the cost.
> 
> EDIT: <crossing my fingers>Guy here says he saw someone claiming success with the O series needle valves: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/357622-new-to-co2/page-3.. I really hope it works. I don't want to be out $30 + more for another valve...





10 rotations? You sure you don't have a leak or something. The factory max for the S series is 10, or did you mean something else? The majority of people lower their stem (I will never question Josh again), to get a usable bps. 

The CV is not the only thing that determines the control, thus the difference in the graph. Integral Bonnet Needle Valve are more of a high flow, they have shut off function which is typical for high flow. And how in the world did that guy in your link able to count 30 bps? Did he video tape it and slow down the frames? Anyways, that needle valve of yours does work, if you got a swimming pool size tank.  

I don't know though, I could be totally wrong on this. And that a nice Concoa 400 series regulator, all SS steel, very nice!


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> 10 rotations? You sure you don't have a leak or something. The factory max for the S series is 10, or did you mean something else? The majority of people lower their stem (I will never question Josh again), to get a usable bps.
> 
> The CV is not the only thing that determines the control, thus the difference in the graph. Integral Bonnet Needle Valve are more of a high flow, they have shut off function which is typical for high flow. And how in the world did that guy in your link able to count 30 bps? Did he video tape it and slow down the frames? Anyways, that needle valve of yours does work, if you got a swimming pool size tank.
> 
> I don't know though, I could be totally wrong on this. And that a nice Concoa 400 series regulator, all SS steel, very nice!


I thought it was 10. It's actually 7.5 rotations. Pretty sure I don't have leaks as I've tested it at least 6 times since setting it up and it's been set that way for a long time.

No idea on the 30bps. Maybe he's estimating? I'm estimating mine at 15-20 but that's just a swag. Of course I have 260 gallon of water to saturate and mine is controlled via a pH controller so it's not on all the time. Before the pH controller I was about 1 revolution lower than I am now, so ~6.5. I bumped it up a little so it would stay on for shorter periods of time.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Oooh ok, now the high rotations make sense. I didn't know you had a monster 260 gallon. 

Try out the O series valve, it could work I guess. You could always keep the O series and use it as a ball valve. With 20 bucks for a 100 dollar retail piece, still not bad.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

So I got the CGA 320 stem from ua hua. I couldn't get it to stop leaking no matter how tight I made it so I used tape on the threads. How bad is that? I was very careful to skip the first thread and keep any tape away from the edge.

Anyway, I got it hooked up to a paintball tank to test the regulator. It seems to hold the pressure.










I still don't have the needle valve that probably won't work so I can't test that. I'm going to try and wire up the solenoid tonight and start on the post body.

Any other tests I should perform?


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Glad to see it made it to you. Did you use the Teflon tape on the cga nipple when connecting to the regulator or on your paintball to cga adaptor or both. It should have tape on the threads of the nipple. I use tape on all connections except the threads of the tank itself. As long as your careful to not get any extra that may get ripped off and make its way in the regulator body. Also are you going to use that huge regulator on a paintball tank or are you just using that to test it?


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

ua hua said:


> Glad to see it made it to you. Did you use the Teflon tape on the cga nipple when connecting to the regulator or on your paintball to cga adaptor or both. It should have tape on the threads of the nipple. I use tape on all connections except the threads of the tank itself. As long as your careful to not get any extra that may get ripped off and make its way in the regulator body. Also are you going to use that huge regulator on a paintball tank or are you just using that to test it?


I've read that you're not supposed to use tape on the nipple to the regulator as you may get tape in the regulator body. More reading shows this to be controversial since many people do it. There is no tape on the paintball adapter or the tank but there is a washer between the nipple and the adapter and another between the adapter and the paintball tank.

For the time being I'll be using the regulator on paintball tanks. I have 2 that I'm using but got sick of the cheap ASA on/off valve. I am watching craigslist for a 5# tank and will probably upgrade when a cheap one comes up.

I just found two threads from Bettatail that say the O series valves will work so I'm hopeful again.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

rdmustang1 said:


> I've read that you're not supposed to use tape on the nipple to the regulator as you may get tape in the regulator body. More reading shows this to be controversial since many people do it.


Where have you read this? I would recommend that you use PTFE tape on the nipple to the regulator.

The only place you should not use teflon is on the CGA320 connection that is on the CO2 cylinder.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> Where have you read this? I would recommend that you use PTFE tape on the nipple to the regulator.
> 
> The only place you should not use teflon is on the CGA320 connection that is on the CO2 cylinder.


I saw it on here yesterday at least twice. I didn't bookmark the threads.


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## c_gwinner (Mar 23, 2012)

I've always heard to use tape and just make sure you dont take the tape all the way to the end of the threads. Leave a small gap at the end so that the tape doesnt get caught in the flow path.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Got the solenoid wired up and it's working well. I think today I'll try plugging it in for a couple hours and see how hot it gets.

So I plugged it in and 50 minutes later it's scolding hot. Maybe I use this short term and keep an eye out for an inexpensive, lower wattage one? Do cheap, low-voltage, stainless solenoids go up on eBay very often?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

rdmustang1 said:


> Got the solenoid wired up and it's working well. I think today I'll try plugging it in for a couple hours and see how hot it gets.
> 
> So I plugged it in and 50 minutes later it's scolding hot. Maybe I use this short term and keep an eye out for an inexpensive, lower wattage one? Do cheap, low-voltage, stainless solenoids go up on eBay very often?


pm'ed
there is a solenoid you might want to consider, I've been eyeing it for two years, never pull the trigger...

cheap, low-voltage, stainless steel solenoid are super rare, that is why I release the information of different metering valves but not the solenoids, did the research around the same time, about 3 years ago.
metering valves are always available, especially the swagelok metering valves, but the really good solenoids, are rare, and due to different design and quality issue I have to personally get the possible models, and test them.
just like the stainless steel SMC VDW21 solenoids deal last year, I will inform the hobbyists if I see any good solenoids show up with large quantity, I will get some for myself as well.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Well, ordered a new solenoid thanks to Bettatail. It runs cooler and was cheaper than the hot one. He's such a cool guy!


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Darkblade48 said:


> Where have you read this? I would recommend that you use PTFE tape on the nipple to the regulator.
> 
> The only place you should not use teflon is on the CGA320 connection that is on the CO2 cylinder.


*Agreed

Not very likely to happen if you know what you're doing. Or for people with inlet screen filters on their regulators. I think it's fine to use teflon on nipples to regulators. 

Have you seen people with ASA with watts needle valves on paintball tanks? Now that takes some brass..... uhm.. fittings to do.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> *Agreed
> 
> Not very likely to happen if you know what you're doing. Or for people with inlet screen filters on their regulators. I think it's fine to use teflon on nipples to regulators.
> 
> Have you seen people with ASA with watts needle valves on paintball tanks? Now that takes some brass..... uhm.. fittings to do.


I'm using an ASA/watts setup on my paintball tank right now. This build will be replacing it once I get all the pieces.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

The replacement gauge came in and now it looks much better.











Still waiting for the needle valve. I think I may use this regulator on my big tank since I don't need fine tuning due to my pH controller. Then I can use my S series needle valve to fine tune my small tank.

[EDIT]: Stupid question.. If I'm using a reactor and a pH controller, do I even need a needle valve? Can I just use the regulator to adjust pressure?


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

rdmustang1 said:


> The replacement gauge came in and now it looks much better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are asking for a bubble bath lol. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Got a few new regulators coming from a deal I couldn't pass up. Have to decide which to use..


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

I got in the solenoid that Betatail recommended and wired it up to a 24v 1a power supply. It lets off an extremely loud buzzing sound. Does this mean the solenoid is bad?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

buzzing sound?
I believe this solenoid is DC input, why there is AC hum?

list the spec of the solenoid, and the power supply adapter, full detail, so I can see what is wrong.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Just realized this is an AC adapter and not a DC. I guess that's why it takes bettatail hours to put together a regulator. He makes sure he does it right where as I just rush through.

Ok, off to eBay to find a new adapter.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

rdmustang1 said:


> Just realized this is an AC adapter and not a DC. I guess that's why it takes bettatail hours to put together a regulator. He makes sure he does it right where as I just rush through.
> 
> Ok, off to eBay to find a new adapter.


hopefully the solenoid is still be ok..


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> hopefully the solenoid is still be ok..


I'll find out on Tuesday when the new adapter comes in. I REALLY hope it's ok. It was only plugged in for about 2 seconds and didn't stop buzzing until I unplugged it.

Some pics of the almost final product:




























Is this overkill for a paintball tank?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

rdmustang1 said:


> I'll find out on Tuesday when the new adapter comes in. I REALLY hope it's ok. It was only plugged in for about 2 seconds and didn't stop buzzing until I unplugged it.


It should be OK...no magic smoke was released, I assume?



rdmustang1 said:


> Is this overkill for a paintball tank?


Make sure you strap it down so it doesn't tip over!


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> It should be OK...no magic smoke was released, I assume?


No, I held it in with some duct tape. :red_mouth


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

I got the 24v DC adapter and my new 0.65w solenoid works great. Super quiet although it does take about 2-3 seconds to close when power is cut. Not a big deal but seems a little weird.










I'm going to clean up the teflon tape but it's now in use.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ It's not that it takes 2-3 seconds to close, it's the Co2 already pass the solenoid that is taking a while to empty.

Completely normal and I have that with my builds too. I like your Co2 reactor build, got any more pics of that? Very nice Co2 system by the way, I have the same gauges as you!


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> ^ It's not that it takes 2-3 seconds to close, it's the Co2 already pass the solenoid that is taking a while to empty.
> 
> Completely normal and I have that with my builds too. I like your Co2 reactor build, got any more pics of that? Very nice Co2 system by the way, I have the same gauges as you!


No, you can audibly hear the solenoid opening and closing via a click noise. With my burkert it's instant - you unplug it and you hear a click immediately. With this you unplug and 2-3 seconds later you hear the click. Maybe the DC transformer takes that long to discharge?


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Look what just came in!!!


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

rdmustang1 said:


> Look what just came in!!!


you struck the gold mine.
these bellow valves are not for our application, CV look small but fairly large orifice. you can easily sell them for more than $50 each, and I think somewhere between $80-$120 each is proper.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> you struck the gold mine.
> these bellow valves are not for our application, CV look small but fairly large orifice. you can easily sell them for more than $50 each, and I think somewhere between $80-$120 each is proper.


Really? I've seen lots of people who have used them and reported great success.

[EDIT]: Just saw your needle valve post:



> Swagelok Belows-sealed metering valve, Part number SS-4BMG, SS-4BMW(weld port)
> Orifice: N/A
> Cv: 0.019 (at 6 turn full open)
> (Tested, Orifice is too big, at low turn doesn't work well)
> owned


This makes me sad.. How does it not work well? Flow doesn't scale well? Flow irregular and requires adjustment? I was planning on using these to replace the valves on my builds because I really like the silver handle. It has the same orifice (lower cV) as the Swagelok M series which I'm using and like. Is it the combination of low cV and larger orifice?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

rdmustang1 said:


> Really? I've seen lots of people who have used them and reported great success.
> 
> [EDIT]: Just saw your needle valve post:
> 
> ...


who use them? 
probably the Nupro/swagelok 22 series...

CV is a relative term according to several factors, one of the factor is orifice size, so a small CV but large orifice, not good.
not good means just forget about it...
the true value of this valve is on the keyword "bellow", virtually no leak..

they are in really good condition, make sure you find the new set of the ferrules and nuts for all of them and list them where you get them from, at the price I mention in previous post.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> who use them?
> probably the Nupro/swagelok 22 series...
> 
> CV is a relative term according to several factors, one of the factor is orifice size, so a small CV but large orifice, not good.
> ...


Bummer.. I had to fight with the seller to get these. He wanted to charge more money after the sale and threatened to tell fedex to recall the package. I really wanted to use them for current and future builds but I guess a nice profit isn't a bad thing either. The ferrules and nuts arrive today. Got a good deal on them too.

Anyway, thanks for the help.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Just scored this 20# (full) "beauty" for $40 on CL. It's not pretty and it's out of date but I'll just swap it when it's empty.










I'm setting up a 40b for a grow out tank and this should last quite a while.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

rdmustang1 said:


> No, you can audibly hear the solenoid opening and closing via a click noise. With my burkert it's instant - you unplug it and you hear a click immediately. With this you unplug and 2-3 seconds later you hear the click. Maybe the DC transformer takes that long to discharge?


That weird! The solenoid we use are continuous use with low response time. In the pdf they list them in "ms" like 10ms, which is instant really.

I have no idea why that takes 3 second to click. I use a DC adapter too, I also have another solenoid that uses AC110, both are the same. And that's a lot of needle valves! Damn!


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> That weird! The solenoid we use are continuous use with low response time. In the pdf they list them in "ms" like 10ms, which is instant really.
> 
> I have no idea why that takes 3 second to click. I use a DC adapter too, I also have another solenoid that uses AC110, both are the same. And that's a lot of needle valves! Damn!


It activates instantly but deactivates 2-3 seconds after cutting power. I'm guessing the time they list is activation time?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

Sound like the problem is from the power supply, not the solenoid.
It is not big deal anyway, just take 2-3 seconds for the output voltage become 0 (or fall below the threshold), then the solenoid will close.

The 24V DC 0.5 amp max power supply should work better, but can't find them now.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> Sound like the problem is from the power supply, not the solenoid.
> It is not big deal anyway, just take 2-3 seconds for the output voltage become 0 (or fall below the threshold), then the solenoid will close.
> 
> The 24V DC 0.5 amp max power supply should work better, but can't find them now.


Yea, I'm not worried. I just thought it was odd. For our application it could take minutes to shut off and it wouldn't be a problem.


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

So I tried the SS-4BMG needle valves today since I need one for a new build I'm doing and had the parts. The only way this thing works is if the regulator is set to 1-2 psi. Any higher and the needle valve lets way too much CO2 out. Even completely closed it lets too much CO2 out. I might still use it since I got it cheap and it does technically work but Bettatail was definitely right and this is not a good valve for our use.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I almost gassed my fish using an ss-ORF2 at barely 1/8 of a turn. I have a 2 needle valve build, the other one going to an atomizer which needs to run at 40 psi, the other is a simple diffuser. The pressure is likely too high, I just got my paintball tank refilled, so will ditch the 2 needle valve setup and hook up another reg at lower pressure. Will report back on how it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Just picked up these to replace my ORF2.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

rdmustang1 said:


> Just picked up these to replace my ORF2.


Nice. I wondered who snagged those.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> you struck the gold mine.
> these bellow valves are not for our application, CV look small but fairly large orifice. you can easily sell them for more than $50 each, and I think somewhere between $80-$120 each is proper.


Problem is there are so many 4bmg being listed on fleabag. It will be hard to sell. I had one. That thing is super huge. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

AlanLe said:


> Problem is there are so many 4bmg being listed on fleabag. It will be hard to sell. I had one. That thing is super huge.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Check sold listings.

The 4BMG bellow valves were rare, but now a lot on the bay


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## flowerfishs (May 6, 2009)

rdmustang1 said:


> Just picked up these to replace my ORF2.


 
are those 3 have the 1/4" npt?


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Electromarvin finally let it go. Greedy seller. I was offering him more but he wanted even more. Now you get a good deal lol.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

AlanLe said:


> Electromarvin finally let it go. Greedy seller. I was offering him more but he wanted even more. Now you get a good deal lol.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


funny got my Hoke 1600 from him (her, who knows)........


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> funny got my Hoke 1600 from him (her, who knows)........


Now you have the hoke micromite!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> Now you have the hoke micromite!


you remember that one.. 










*1656G2Y*


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ Good score Jeff! 

Man, I want that Hoke now. :icon_smil


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> Where have you read this? I would recommend that you use PTFE tape on the nipple to the regulator.


My early readings found that as well... but it didn't mean to not use anything. 

It meant to use liquid pipe dope.. due to teflon "strings" entering the body and getting into the needle valve or on the diaphragm seals..

From what I've seen.. nobody paid attention.. Ever... 
Then again the "white" tape is also not "recommended" for "gas" of any kind either..Use the thicker "yellow" stuff.

nobody pays attention to that either..


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> Then again the "white" tape is also not "recommended" for "gas" of any kind either..Use the thicker "yellow" stuff.
> 
> nobody pays attention to that either..


Why is the white PTFE not recommended for gas? It is generally recommended for use on pipes measuring 3/8" diameter or less.

Yellow PTFE tape is generally used for (natural) gas pipes, which are generally larger.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> Why is the white PTFE not recommended for gas? It is generally recommended for use on pipes measuring 3/8" diameter or less.
> 
> Yellow PTFE tape is generally used for (natural) gas pipes, which are generally larger.



The white is too thin.. Gas has no or vary little viscosity or surface tension, which in a sense helps seal liquids such as water in pipes.. on a molecular level.. 

More solids more micro gap filling.. 

Pipe size makes no difference really except, I suppose, to have more area to fill.. but that doesn't change the "physics".. 

Gas lines into my house are no bigger than the water lines.. 

also not all whites are equal.. anyways another "answer"


> Regular white PTFE is typically a first choice for water system applications and is more porous than an industrial grade PTFE. Specialized gas pipe PTFE offers better shred resistance and superior ability to fill voids in thread imperfections. This improved pipe thread sealing capability offers better assurance that volatile gases are not released from a poorly sealed pipe joint. If a piping system is conveying something gaseous then there is a greater chance that a threaded pipe joint will leak. Gas is less dense than water for example, so gas will leak from a pipe thread on more occasions than water ever will.
> 
> The informational sources I provide, lists application and dimensional details on at least seven different PTFE thread tapes.
> 
> ...


The choice in our case is certainly not "critical" nor open to inspection.. just more of a "why" is one arguably better over another..


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

I actually use the yellow tape on my builds. You can see some in the pics.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> My early readings found that as well... but it didn't mean to not use anything.
> 
> It meant to use liquid pipe dope.. due to teflon "strings" entering the body and getting into the needle valve or on the diaphragm seals..
> 
> ...


I heard yellow tape is recommended for natural gas, and people in the trade refer to it as "gas tape", but does that mean it's meant for all gases?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

exv152 said:


> I heard yellow tape is recommended for natural gas, and people in the trade refer to it as "gas tape", but does that mean it's meant for all gases?


Short answer.. yes......


> Kerosene (UL Yellow Gas)
> •Natural Gas (UL Yellow Gas)
> •Nitrogen (UL Yellow Gas)


w/ possible exceptions but note not the "thin" stuff:


> Air, compressed (Premium Grade)
> •LPG (Premium Oxygen)


I said it was "arguable"...  Where does CO2 fit in???

It's really not worth too much thought.. 
Personally I've found pipe dope just works better... no matter the situation. Oh and I never have to worry about "direction". It is messy though. 
And as to a sealant.. cheaply cut threads are more of a problem than what you use to seal them with..
Theory is you shouldn't need any...


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

All of the regs I've used have white tape on the factory installed connections so that's what I've always used. 

I have used the pipe dope in the past and if you ever want to take things apart and reconfigure or reuse parts elsewhere cleaning the pipe dope off of the threads can be a real pain. 



jeffkrol said:


> And as to a sealant.. cheaply cut threads are more of a problem than what you use to seal them with..
> Theory is you shouldn't need any...


I agree that quality fittings make a big difference. My understanding is that SS fittings always need sealant or the threads can be ruined.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

AaronT said:


> All of the regs I've used have white tape on the factory installed connections so that's what I've always used.


for fun.. Who is to say that white tape is your white tape???

Really the only difference is amount of Teflon solids and thickness...
IS it white tape or yellow tape that is white???

http://www.swagelok.com/products/le...ants/sealants/ptfe-tape.aspx?forgotPassword=Y

http://www.fastenal.com/catalog_pages/2010/6-70.pdf

I could almost guarantee that "their" white tape is not "your" white tape.. 

(gosh I must be bored... )


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## rdmustang1 (Oct 20, 2013)

So I decided to redo the CO2 rig on my 40b. I replaced the regulator with the same model with a much lower operating pressure (20 PSI max). I also reused my Swagelok SS-4BMG. I found that at 1 PSI the 4BMG works ok. I wouldn't rank it as a great choice but it's almost as good as the Swagelok O series valve that I run on my 12 gallon. I can adjust down to 1bps (no lower) and can adjust up to the 4bps that I normally run in about a 1/2 turn. 

So at a really low operating pressure I think the BMG is doable. I was able to get it working at a higher operating pressure but 4bps is 1/10th of a turn instead of 1/2 which makes it much harder to fine tune.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

White tape is single density, yellow is double density, yellow tape normally use on large threads or for gas application because it is more secure than the white tape.
Larger pipe threads, 2 inches or larger on high pressure application, you will see the PURPLE tape, higher density than the yellow tape....

But in our co2 pressurized system, white tape is good enough because all pipe threads are less than 1/2, and as long as you know how to use it properly

End of dicussion.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bettatail said:


> White tape is single density, yellow is double density, yellow tape normally use on large threads or for gas application because it is more secure than the white tape.
> Larger pipe threads, 2 inches or larger on high pressure application, you will see the PURPLE tape, higher density than the yellow tape....
> 
> But in our co2 pressurized system, white tape is good enough because all pipe threads are less than 1/2, and as long as you know how to use it properly
> ...


no.. there are different densities of white tape.. for one thing..
http://www.gasoila.com/media/wysiwyg/support_art/ptfe/HDMDSD-Tape-Specs.pdf
http://www.gasoila.com/thred-tape-white-standard-density.html

But obviously not common in "retail" shops.. where they "color code" it for you.. 

Even those that do this stuff for a living.. don't have an "end" to the story..


> The generally accepted practice for welding gas fittings don't specify any sealant. Of course, there are those who do it their way, regardless of what the "standard" may be!


BTW: they are referring to brass pipe fittings..
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/archive/index.php/t-17541.html


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

What u guys talking about

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

AlanLe said:


> What u guys talking about
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


the meaning of life...........


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