# Shrimp soil discussion....



## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Now that you are not allowed to import Double Red Line Akadama, we do not have much left to choose from. At the moment I would only go with ADA Amazonia II but what happens when that runs out? (and it frequently does). My current Akadama has been in my tank since February so it still has some life left to it (I keep dropping BorneoWild Humic to help prolong its life). But eventually I'll need to replace the soil in the near future.

I know that there are other substrates available in the US but they do not compare to Amazonia or DRL Akadama. Does anybody know when some of these will be available to the US shrimp keepers? (BoreoWild, Shirakura, Benibachi, Ebiten). I would actually love to try out some BW or Ebiten even if it meant paying a premium.

There are some people from this forum working with the distributors in Asia, but they generally say that in order to make money they would need to order a whole sea freight container costing 10K plus.

Anybody have any tidbits of info as to how far along the progress is? Will we see any of these soils soon?


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## Bananariot (Feb 28, 2012)

I want to argue that some soils such as azoo plant grower bed, mr aqua soil, and up aqua shrimp sand hold their own ground when compared to the ones you mentioned. Brightwell aquatics also came out with their own brand though I don't know how they hold up.

Also within the ADA realm itself beyond plant growth and focusing on shrimp, I've only heard good things about malaya and africana

Though I would like to see some netlea in the U.S....


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

It is more than just the money. It is hard to get stuff approved by customs and getting them to let all the science people approve it


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Max Kenji in the Sellers threads carries Benibachi products including their substrate and he's in the US.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

ravensgate said:


> Max Kenji in the Sellers threads carries Benibachi products including their substrate and he's in the US.


Strange, I have not seen his soil posted in the threads. Do you have a direct link to the thread where he is selling? :bounce:


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

I know of a seller that's close to getting a pallet of Shirakura into the US. He's already gotten it approved and all but he just needs enough money to buy an entire pallet. 


Sent from my fingers


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

jkan0228 said:


> I know of a seller that's close to getting a pallet of Shirakura into the US. He's already gotten it approved and all but he just needs enough money to buy an entire pallet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my fingers


Good start. Check out the cool little chart with all the soils and their parameters:

http://shrimpsider.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/shrimp-soil-overview/

Here is another one:

http://shrimpkeeping.com/substrate.html


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

I've heard that it's one hell of a substrate. The seller stated that they added some nice CRS into the tank 6 hours after adding the substrate. 

Why is it the that the ph charts in both websites vary so much apart from their higher value being 6.8? 


Sent from my fingers


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

jkan0228 said:


> I've heard that it's one hell of a substrate. The seller stated that they added some nice CRS into the tank 6 hours after adding the substrate.
> 
> Why is it the that the ph charts in both websites vary so much apart from their higher value being 6.8?
> 
> ...


No idea but I noticed that as well. I hope the first one that I posted is correct.

Then again, perhaps the product is not consistent but now I'm just speculating.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Talking about akadama... it's not why its banned by the customs, but who and how?
I mean in order for akadama to be imported for the first time, the customs must have approved this product. But how come its banned now? What went wrong?
Do the customs just changed their mind to banned it...? Or....? This is still a mystery for me.

(And yes I know akadama is prohibited because of the organic waste on their bag such as insects, twigs, roots, etc.)


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## Bananariot (Feb 28, 2012)

sayurasem said:


> Talking about akadama... it's not why its banned by the customs, but who and how?
> I mean in order for akadama to be imported for the first time, the customs must have approved this product. But how come its banned now? What went wrong?
> Do the customs just changed their mind to banned it...? Or....? This is still a mystery for me.
> 
> (And yes I know akadama is prohibited because of the organic waste on their bag such as insects, twigs, roots, etc.)


It's exactly as you said, the checkers found some roots and stuff. Since we don't want invasive plants or anything, organic material must be listed and because it was contaminant, it was sent back.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

You can "reset" your akadama drl. Ask Speedie how to do it.


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## thechibi (Jan 20, 2012)

Oooh, I'm so jealous of Europe and Asia.  A lot of those soils look really neat.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

How can you "reset" Akadama? Won't it break down eventually like all soils? 


Sent from my fingers


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> How can you "reset" Akadama? Won't it break down eventually like all soils?
> 
> 
> Sent from my fingers


Ask Speedie, he's been using the same akadama for a while now. I think is something similar to what is done to purigen.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

pejerrey said:


> Ask Speedie, he's been using the same akadama for a while now. I think is something similar to what is done to purigen.


hmmmm... I know the first time using akadama you have to soak it in hard water or high kh/gh water in order to "charge" the substrate. If not the substrate will lower your gh and kh drastically if you started with 100% ro water.

Perhaps soak old used akadama in a 100% ro water with 0gh and 0kh to loosen or to "let go" the stuff akadama has been holding out for so long?

haha I don't know this is just my wild guess.


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## tobystanton (Jun 27, 2012)

I have read on bonsai forums that they bake it for a little bit to kill all the organic material.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

sayurasem said:


> Talking about akadama... it's not why its banned by the customs, but who and how?
> I mean in order for akadama to be imported for the first time, the customs must have approved this product. But how come its banned now? What went wrong?
> Do the customs just changed their mind to banned it...? Or....? This is still a mystery for me.
> 
> (And yes I know akadama is prohibited because of the organic waste on their bag such as insects, twigs, roots, etc.)


When it went through the first time they did not find any twigs, roots, insects etc. Then the quality probably went down and boom, customs sends it back.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

hedge_fund said:


> Strange, I have not seen his soil posted in the threads. Do you have a direct link to the thread where he is selling? :bounce:


This one says Black Bee Soil should be due in in August. Also says 'coming soon' on the website.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=169464&page=5

The other thread I can't seem to find right now but was just reading it the other day talking about the Golden soil and someone mentioned they didn't make it anymore and Max said he was getting some that was leftover stock. If I can find it again (and if it's not a real old thread) I'll link it. You can always just email him and ask. Sounds like the full line of products is available in the US now according to the first sentence in this thread.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=169464&highlight=benibachi+golden


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Here we go! Post #3. Thread is from March of this year though.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168799&highlight=benibachi+substrate


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

ravensgate said:


> Here we go! Post #3. Thread is from March of this year though.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168799&highlight=benibachi+substrate


Thanks Jamie. Nice detective work.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

You're welcome! I knew it was going to drive me crazy if I couldn't find it cause I JUST read it a few days ago. LOL! Hate when that happens and I can't relocate a thread. You could maybe try to email him, see when stuff is due to arrive and maybe he has a wait list. I know if I had the money I would just buy up substrate along the way just to have it in when I needed it. Because I agree, our choices over here seem somewhat limited. Or that could just be my knowledge of what's available


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

ravensgate said:


> You're welcome! I knew it was going to drive me crazy if I couldn't find it cause I JUST read it a few days ago. LOL! Hate when that happens and I can't relocate a thread. You could maybe try to email him, see when stuff is due to arrive and maybe he has a wait list. I know if I had the money I would just buy up substrate along the way just to have it in when I needed it. Because I agree, our choices over here seem somewhat limited. Or that could just be my knowledge of what's available


I'm in the same boat as you in terms of us having limited soils to choose from. If some is available I'll just pick it up and have it sitting until I need it. Then again, I have a spare of everything possible and it's starting to clutter my closet under the stairs. It's always the spend $50 or $100 in order to get free shipping...that's when I add on the spare things in case something breaks down the road.


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

I keep benibachi prl's in brightwells xf substrates, I have both rio and cafe. 

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/rio_escuro_xf.php

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/rio_cafe_xf.php

They are better than amazonia as far as im concerned, it keeps its shape a lot better and takes a lot longer to break down, has minimal leech and still a good amount of nutrients to grow anything ive thrown at it. Since it doesnt compact down as much, you get a lot more actual water flow through your substrate. 

















1mm grain size with elatine hydropiper


















My lfs sells the 15 pound bag for ~50 bucks, so its not that cheap, but that was plenty to do my 12g long and have 1/3 the bag left.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Mythin, where does it set your pH at? Reading the Rio says it buffers below 7 but is that like 6.8 or 5?? LOL. I like the look of it though!


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

with pure r/o, mine sits at 6.2-6.3


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

ravensgate said:


> Mythin, where does it set your pH at? Reading the Rio says it buffers below 7 but is that like 6.8 or 5?? LOL. I like the look of it though!


Also, does it lower your GH a ton? 
How about your benibachis, are they breeding like roaches?


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Thanks for the info Mythin!

I have a question and hopefully this isn't a hijack. ARe there issues with getting substrates shipped into the states? Specifically thinking of Netlea since I have many friends in Canada that could order me a couple of bags and then ship it on to me. do you have to go through permits to get it across the border or can it be shipped like anything else?


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## jone (Nov 27, 2011)

I would really love to hear how to "reset" Akadama...looking to set up another tank with my hidden bag of DRL Akadama..


pejerrey said:


> You can "reset" your akadama drl. Ask Speedie how to do it.


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

hedge_fund said:


> Also, does it lower your GH a ton?
> How about your benibachis, are they breeding like roaches?


I cant really tell how much it lowers GH, I test every month and a half, and usually i try to get it to 5.0 and after about a month and a half it goes down to 4.0, im thinking its just the natural depletion of the GH, I think the lowering of GH is maybe more drastic if you have like High GH tap water, it may buffer that GH lower, but as far as adding GH to my r/o, ive never had an issue with instability. I have maybe 100 babies ranging from a few days old to 2 months old now. I have little to no loss of shrimplets, i use shirakura minima breeder as my baby food, i think thats played a role in my shrimplet turnover rate, that and stability.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

ravensgate said:


> Thanks for the info Mythin!
> 
> I have a question and hopefully this isn't a hijack. ARe there issues with getting substrates shipped into the states? Specifically thinking of Netlea since I have many friends in Canada that could order me a couple of bags and then ship it on to me. do you have to go through permits to get it across the border or can it be shipped like anything else?


I'm sure if it's a pain for a store to get the stuff shipped in without permits and stuff, it would be the same thing shipping it person to person as it would be supplier to store.

That, and as far as I know, there is only 1 store in Canada that even get's the stuff and that's near me. It's not like every aquarium store in Canada sell's it.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

mythin said:


> I cant really tell how much it lowers GH, I test every month and a half, and usually i try to get it to 5.0 and after about a month and a half it goes down to 4.0, im thinking its just the natural depletion of the GH, I think the lowering of GH is maybe more drastic if you have like High GH tap water, it may buffer that GH lower, but as far as adding GH to my r/o, ive never had an issue with instability. I have maybe 100 babies ranging from a few days old to 2 months old now. I have little to no loss of shrimplets, i use shirakura minima breeder as my baby food, i think thats played a role in my shrimplet turnover rate, that and stability.


Great, just what I needed to know. Thanks. roud:


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

GeToChKn said:


> I'm sure if it's a pain for a store to get the stuff shipped in without permits and stuff, it would be the same thing shipping it person to person as it would be supplier to store.
> 
> That, and as far as I know, there is only 1 store in Canada that even get's the stuff and that's near me. It's not like every aquarium store in Canada sell's it.


HAha, I'm not saying they go to the store to pick it up.  Permits would vary I would think coming from Hong Kong into say the states vs Canada into the states. Do you know for sure if one would need a permit to ship in two bags from Canada to the states? A quick google search isn't getting me the info. I don't know if it's strictly product based, weight based or what, that's why I'm asking.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

I was actually thinking of getting some soils shipped from Poland....I was born there and still have a ton of family. Shrimp keeping there is huge just like in Germany.

Benibachi soil:
http://www.akwarystyczny24.pl/benibachi-black-soil-powder-fulvic-p-3297.html


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## pkt (Apr 30, 2012)

Out of curiousity what other shrimp specific soils are out there (outside of the US). 
So far I believe we have Mr Aqua soil, ADA substrate and Fluval shrimp stratum, DRL Akadama

I know theres benbachi and brightwell out there but thats about it.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

idk about the high end shrimp soils but im using FSS in 2 tanks have been since feb. and it will still pull my ph down to 5 if i dont do water changes every 2 weeks. in my cbs tank i have miracle grow organic potting soil capped with pool filter sand and it sits about 6.5. im guessing that tank is due to the high peat moss content of the mgo, it did stop leaching tannins around last sep (started last july) and the plants do great. i think alot of this stuff is over rated. i dont use ro i dont know what my tds is and i verry seldom do water changes and all my shrimp are in small tanks between 1 and 5 gallons and do great but maybe im lucky with the crs, cbs, red tiger, oebt, yellow neos, and rili


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## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

wicca27 said:


> idk about the high end shrimp soils but im using FSS in 2 tanks have been since feb. and it will still pull my ph down to 5 if i dont do water changes every 2 weeks. in my cbs tank i have miracle grow organic potting soil capped with pool filter sand and it sits about 6.5. im guessing that tank is due to the high peat moss content of the mgo, it did stop leaching tannins around last sep (started last july) and the plants do great. i think alot of this stuff is over rated. i dont use ro i dont know what my tds is and i verry seldom do water changes and all my shrimp are in small tanks between 1 and 5 gallons and do great but maybe im lucky with the crs, cbs, red tiger, oebt, yellow neos, and rili


Lol, lucky with all those shrimp? If I were you I would buy some lottery tickets...


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## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

Without looking into the different substrates myself, which of these soils come from Japan? I have a lot of family that lives near Tokyo. I'm certain they would ship it here if I asked them.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

ravensgate said:


> HAha, I'm not saying they go to the store to pick it up.  Permits would vary I would think coming from Hong Kong into say the states vs Canada into the states. Do you know for sure if one would need a permit to ship in two bags from Canada to the states? A quick google search isn't getting me the info. I don't know if it's strictly product based, weight based or what, that's why I'm asking.


They would have to go to a store, as I said, as far as I know, there is only 1 place in Canada that even sells it. I haven't seen it anywhere online either.

As for the shipping, if the reason they aren't letting other soils in its such a long process to get a soil permitted into the states, I don't think the states will care about the country of origin. I haven't seen any sticks or matter in my Netlea but doesn't mean it won't and I'm just don't think it will be that easy to send across. If you find out it is, I'll go buy 20 bags and ship them and become the Netlea pimp. lol.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

There's always Yubao substrate.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

GeToChKn said:


> They would have to go to a store, as I said, as far as I know, there is only 1 place in Canada that even sells it. I haven't seen it anywhere online either.
> 
> As for the shipping, if the reason they aren't letting other soils in its such a long process to get a soil permitted into the states, I don't think the states will care about the country of origin. I haven't seen any sticks or matter in my Netlea but doesn't mean it won't and I'm just don't think it will be that easy to send across. If you find out it is, I'll go buy 20 bags and ship them and become the Netlea pimp. lol.



Yeah after looking around it looks like it has to be approved by the government before it's allowed in. Of course I didn't find out if it was approved or not. And I went to the site I found online (Aqua Inspiration) and they have the soils listed and in stock but I didn't see a 'add to cart' button so maybe you can't even get it online as you said, I just figured you would be able to until I went back and looked. Didn't look to see if it was available anywhere else online, just checked that first site. 

If I do my sleuthing and find more info out you may totally wind up being a Netlea pimp. LOL


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

ravensgate said:


> Yeah after looking around it looks like it has to be approved by the government before it's allowed in. Of course I didn't find out if it was approved or not. And I went to the site I found online (Aqua Inspiration) and they have the soils listed and in stock but I didn't see a 'add to cart' button so maybe you can't even get it online as you said, I just figured you would be able to until I went back and looked. Didn't look to see if it was available anywhere else online, just checked that first site.
> 
> If I do my sleuthing and find more info out you may totally wind up being a Netlea pimp. LOL


That's the store that sells it, it's about an hour from my place.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

I will be using a few 3L bags of ADA New Amazonia in my new shrimp tank, it is great stuff, my favorite substrate without a doubt.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Green_Flash said:


> I will be using a few 3L bags of ADA New Amazonia in my new shrimp tank, it is great stuff, my favorite substrate without a doubt.


Have you tried BENIBACHI, BORNEO WILD or SHIRAKURA?


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

hedge_fund said:


> Have you tried BENIBACHI, BORNEO WILD or SHIRAKURA?


I had not heard of those before, thank you! They look very interesting. I would love to experiment with them If I could find them locally.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Green_Flash said:


> I had not heard of those before, thank you! They look very interesting. I would love to experiment with them If I could find them locally.


Same here. I would love to get my hands on any of the three that I mentioned.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

no luck involved in my shirmp. i just dont mess with them alot and let them do their own thing, they come in and drip for a long time im talking hours ( cause i dont use ro) and then into their tank. i dont do many water changes (keep things stable for as long as possible) and i have them on all diff subs so im not sure y people though such a fuss over shrimp i really think they are hardier than is let on but maybe i have magic water idk


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

wicca27 said:


> no luck involved in my shirmp. i just dont mess with them alot and let them do their own thing, they come in and drip for a long time im talking hours ( cause i dont use ro) and then into their tank. i dont do many water changes (keep things stable for as long as possible) and i have them on all diff subs so im not sure y people though such a fuss over shrimp i really think they are hardier than is let on but maybe i have magic water idk


Yes, shrimp are hardier than people think but you need to take extra precautions once you start spending 300+ dollars per shrimp. Can you imagine if you have 10 of them die on you just because of a simple mistake?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

lol yes i can but i run that risk so to speak any way. all my shrimp are kept in tanks between 1 and 5 gallons lol. i just do better with smaller tanks i guess


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

I don't think I would call it resetting . I bleach my Akadama only because I want to rid of all harmful bacteria/parasites. As far as the buffering capacity goes, I have no idea of the effects bleach does for Akadama. I'm using bleached Akadama on 2 of my current tanks and they seem to be doing great. Babies are growing, shrimp are breeding, and no unexpected deaths thus far.

Do at your own risk.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Hey Nick!
What's the ph in those akableachadama tanks?

What kind of shrimpanzes you have in there?

I'm curious!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

pejerrey said:


> Hey Nick!
> What's the ph in those akableachadama tanks?
> 
> What kind of shrimpanzes you have in there?
> ...


I don't bother with Ph or any other parameter monitoring much. I've only tested all the params once, and that was right before reintroducing shrimp back in. Ph was 7. Keep in mind I'm doing 50% water changes (almost weekly or when I remember) now for these tanks with no param checks for the past 4-6 weeks. All the babies are unaffected. I'm keeping OEBTs & Crystal Whites in there.


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## Vincent Tran (Aug 7, 2012)

Azoo plant grower bed is what I'm currently using and I love it! You can find it for cheap off marinedepot.com.


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## discus fever (Jun 16, 2010)

So i was researching these soils to see what was in them that makes them so special and why cant they be made in the usa. It seems the secret is volcanoes. Since i don't have a volcano i guess i wont get rich making shrimp soils lol. I did come across some interesting reading though. Here is one of them. Sorry if its been posted before.
http://bialix.com/amania/Chapters/Tech/sub-aquasoils_en.html


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I've made the decision for now at least, if a shrimp can't be kept healthy on sand, it's too much trouble for me to keep. So at this point I'm pretty much going to become a neo master and that's about it. I did just acquire some super tigers that are in a sand tank too, so I'm hoping that they thrive in those conditions as well.


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