# Help planting my tank please!



## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

Do I have to have special substrate, or can I get by with gravel if I stay with plants that don't bury? eg. Java fern, moss and Anubis?

To really answer this its all about what you want out of it. Most of us use eco complete, ADA, or Flourite, but some use sand, gravel with root tabs. Its all your preference. I prefer the first 3

I have a power compact that I will have to use to get the wpg, it takes 4 bulbs. If I got 2 natural daylight grow bulbs and 2 just white florescent bulbs, would I have to count the white bulbs in the wpg. I don't like the yellow glow that daylight bulbs produce so would try to counteract that with the white.

Light is light. It all depends on the spectrum color. I recommend doing 1 10000k and 1 6500k 

Can I have high light plants without Co2?

I dont recommend this. With High light, it will be really hard to balance the needs of the plants without co2 or ferts. Youll become an algae factory 

Can I overdose fertilizer and kill fish and plants?

Short answer yes. Following EI dosing or something similar if using dry ferts or if using seachem or other products, follow their directions 

Can I make it work just getting a few plants at a time, as you all know they are spendy! and there is a lot of ground to cover in a 55.

Yes absolutely. Just shorten your light cycle. If you start out with a few plants here and there, maybe start withe 4 hours of light a day. 

Will high light kill low light plants? or can I have low light and high light plants together?

I have heard of this, but never experienced. I would be more concerned with algae outbreaks with high light


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

msawdey, Thank you for your answers!


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## CatB (Jan 29, 2012)

good advice thus far, added a few things...




msawdey said:


> Do I have to have special substrate, or can I get by with gravel if I stay with plants that don't bury? eg. Java fern, moss and Anubis?
> 
> To really answer this its all about what you want out of it. Most of us use eco complete, ADA, or Flourite, but some use sand, gravel with root tabs. Its all your preference. I prefer the first 3
> 
> ...


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

Ok, I think that I am going to go with a low to medium light tank so that I can avoid having to get C02 stuff. With the lighting stuff, are watts not as important as Kelvin? I can get the following:

Compact Fluorescent
Wattage: 65W


• 6500K - Natural daylight. Perfect for planted setups. 
• 10000K - Crisp white color, full spectrum daylight. 
• Actinic 460nm - Emits blue hue. Ideal for coral photosynthesis. 
• 50/50 Combo - Half 12000K / Half 460nm

The top two would be perfect, just what msawdey suggested problem is on my light strip its 2 fluorescents per half so like this ==. (if that helped at all:0) So if I put one on the left and the other on the right would the plants suffer from uneven lighting? Would it hurt to get one that is half actinic? these compacts that fit my strip are like 2 little florescent tubes stuck together to make one, and I can get an 18w half actinic half 10000 white then could meet the lower wpg. 

I feel like this is just way to complicated! Or maybe its just me making it that way, I don't know!!! :0) Thank goodness for forums and the smart people who answer on them!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

prinmel said:


> With the lighting stuff, are watts not as important as Kelvin?


Watts and Kelvin are two separate aspects of lighting. It might be easier to understand using a metaphor of something more common.

Lighting -> Spices (such as salt and pepper)
Kelvin -> which one
Watts -> how much

When thinking about spices, you'd first have to consider which spice to use: salt or pepper (or both). Then you'd have to consider how much to use: a dash, 1/4 tsp, or more.

So you have two basic questions to consider. (1) Kelvin refers to which color spectrum you're going to use. Most plants grow better with a 6500K light, but our eyes generally don't find this color as pleasing to look at. Therefore, many people mix in a 10000K light to compensate.

How much light to shine on the plants is determined by the (2) watts. Obviously, if the watts is too low, there won't be enough light for the plants to grow. However, if there's too much light, then the plants will need injected CO2 and added ferts to keep up (or algae will take over). Therefore, it's good to find a happy medium where there's enough light for the plants to grow, but not too much. So the watts refers to how much light or how intense the light is.

So to answer your question, kelvin and watts are both important. I agree with your idea of using a medium lighting (watts) and would recommend using either all 6500K or a mix of 6500K and 10000K lights (I use a mix). However, as long as you stick to a reasonable amount of light in a color range that the plants are able to use, you should be okay.


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

Wow... that totally made sense! 

Last two questions:

Would 3 wpg using the mix of 10000k and 6500k be too high for low/medium light plants? 

Would actinic light effect anything negatively?

Thank you all for your help!!!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

prinmel said:


> Would 3 wpg using the mix of 10000k and 6500k be too high for low/medium light plants?


My personal thought is that 3wpg would put you in the high lighting range, requiring CO2 and ferts. To give some idea of measure, here's the wpg I'm currently running.

90g (injected CO2, ferts) -- 108w T5HO (1.2 wpg)
75g (injected CO2, ferts) -- 108w T5HO (1.44 wpg)
29g (no CO2, no ferts) -- 36w T5NO (1.24 wpg)
8g (no CO2, no ferts) -- 15w T8NO (1.88 wpg)
5g (no CO2, no ferts) -- 8W T5NO (1.6 wpg)

I will be increasing the lighting on the 90g and 75g to include a "noon burst" in which I will run all 4 bulbs for 2-4 hours in the middle of the photoperiod. That will double the lighting to 2.4 wpg and 2.88 wpg, respectively. This is considered high lighting, and I can only do this now that I've got my CO2 running again and am actively dosing ferts.



> Would actinic light effect anything negatively?


To be honest, I have never actually looked up the details on actinic lighting. From what I understand, plants cannot use the light coming from an actinic bulb which is enough for me to not use one. However, I have heard others say that actinic lighting encourages algae.

Regardless of whether it does or does not encourage algae, it just makes no sense to me to use the wrong light bulb. Why spend so much money on a tank, substrate, plants, fish, filtration, decor, accessories and all only to scrimp on a light bulb? I can see cutting corners elsewhere, but not on one of the most critical aspects of a planted tank.


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

I don't really want to use the actinic but, the type of bulb that my hood takes has two small tubes stuck together to make one bulb that plugs into the ballast. So the only bulbs that I can find that come in a lower wattage is a half actinic and half 10000K.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

What light fixture do you have? There has to be a work around or a mod that can fix this problem.


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## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

CatB said:


> good advice thus far, added a few things...


Thanks for the help cat


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## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

prinmel said:


> I don't really want to use the actinic but, the type of bulb that my hood takes has two small tubes stuck together to make one bulb that plugs into the ballast. So the only bulbs that I can find that come in a lower wattage is a half actinic and half 10000K.


I personally like to mix the 2. The look with the more white/ yellow, plus a little blue is good. I really makes my blue angels and bolivian rams pop. When i started using it, i was getting algae issues. But as the tank filled out, they disappeared.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm doing some searches on this topic and ran across this post (on another board). The information is good to know and easy to understand. The part about the iron may explain the issues some have reported with increased algae.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/59983-actinic-lights-question.html#post454694


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

I don't know what the name of it is but found one close to it, below are the specs: 


48'' long X 7.25'' wide and 2.5'' tall

Power Compact Aquarium Light

4X 65 Watt Power Compact

Powered by 5 year warranty ballast


2-10k (sunlight bulb) INCLUDED

2- actinic bulbs included –( Blue bulb) INCLUDED


(We also have 6500k bulbs - let us know if you are interested and we can set up a special auction for you)


5 YEAR WARRANTY

Ballast is highly efficient Electronic ballast w/ 5 year warranty

LIGHT IS PLUG AND PLAY READY TO GO UPON ARRIVAL


Light is very well ventilated 


Splash Guard Included to protect bulbs from splash/ corrosion

Bulbs included are straight pin 4 prong like this (. . . .)

1.5'' Detachable legs included to keep light a safe distance from splash



There are 3 switches with the light. There is 2 bulbs on 1 switch and 2 bulbs on the other switch - and moonlights on the 3rd switch so you can implement the Dawn/ Dusk effect. There are 3 plugs as well so you can plug directly into wall timers

Oh just saw the other posts.. I have also read that others use the actinic, probably because the compact bulbs come with them, and some said it affected the growth of plants and some say they didn't. Some say they are fine some don't...


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

I have a straight pin plug, I wonder if you could just plug the 2 pins in for the half of the bulb that is the 10000K and not plug in the 2 for the actinic? I don't have any bulbs to test it on right now, few years back I knocked it into the tank and blew up the bulbs...ooopppss!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Have you bought this fixture already?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

If you haven't bought the fixture (which I think I found on a certain auction site), then you might want to consider this one. I have the actual TEK fixtures, but I've heard others have been pleased with this one. It's not as good as a TEK, obviously, but I think it's better than the one you're describing and the price is certainly right.

http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-4x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52305.htm


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## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

Complexity said:


> If you haven't bought the fixture (which I think I found on a certain auction site), then you might want to consider this one. I have the actual TEK fixtures, but I've heard others have been pleased with this one. It's not as good as a TEK, obviously, but I think it's better than the one you're describing and the price is certainly right.
> 
> http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-4x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52305.htm


I agree.. or go with a straight GLO fixture.. i have two of them and they are great


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

Yes, I have had the fixture for years.. a few years ago the middle support beam on my tank snapped and I was sooo scared because the tank started bowing out in the back! I grabbed my siphon and started just draining as fast as I could, I forgot to unplug the heater and like an novice, I just pushed the heater down into the water assuming it hadn't got hot enough yet to matter, well it exploded and when it did I jumped back hitting the light and plunging it into the tank and exploding all but one bulb... So I have not used it because the bulbs are expensive, but I am ready again to try with the plants so I want to do it the best that I can with the money I have.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Wow! What a horrible experience! Thank goodness nothing worse happened, like the tank busting or anything catching on fire. I had a 29g spontaneously break on me in the middle of the night so I completely understand why you'd push the heater down like you did. Even though I knew better, I found myself reaching in bare handed with water pouring down to unplug everything from the electricity. It was only after the emergency that I slapped myself upside the head, realizing that I should have cut the breaker switch instead of touching live electricity with wet bare hands! It's amazing how you react before thinking at times like that, even when you know better.

So what are you left with that's working on the fixture? Are you planning to buy anything to get it ready for the plants? I'm a little confused as to how the actinic bulb is somehow attached to the regular bulb and cannot be replaced. Or are you just not want to replace it because you don't want to spend the money to replace it?


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

Thats funny I did the same thing when I reached in and pulled the fixture out, afterwords I thought, "Whoow, that was dumb" because it was still plugged in. It was not fun cleaning all the shattered glass out of the tank.

Anyway, The fixture still works just need to replace the bulbs, but they are all such high wattage its hard to stay low light. If you look in the pictures below, it shows the long dual tube and the close up is a point where the meet. So most bulbs come with one tube being actinic and one being 10000K, I just tried plugging in just 2 pins and it wont turn on.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Ah, okay, I see the problem.

I wonder if it's possible to find these bulbs with one not being actinic? That would take care of the problem.

So the first thing to do is to identify the info for replacement bulbs (even actinic ones), such as bulb length and wattage. Then it's a matter of looking to see if there is another bulb made that can fit the same requirements that's better suited for a planted tank.

What info do you have on a replacement bulb?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Something else... Just because those bulbs are attached, it doesn't mean they have to be. All that's required is that the prongs on the end fit the ballast connections. No, you can't have an empty one, but you might be able to use 2 unconnected bulbs (or 4 for the entire fixture) instead of the connected ones.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

prinmel said:


> 2-10k (sunlight bulb) INCLUDED
> 
> 2- actinic bulbs included –( Blue bulb) INCLUDED
> 
> (We also have 6500k bulbs - let us know if you are interested and we can set up a special auction for you)


Did you notice this that you posted earlier? It sounds like whomever listed the one you found may have what you're looking for -- a 10000K and 6500K combo. You might want to contact that person to get more details on the bulbs. If they fit, then this might be the answer (or at least you might get some idea of what to look for).


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Could this fit your fixture?

http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=71_45_122_132&products_id=1450


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

Well I have found bulbs that don't have the actinic but the lowest wattage is 24, 10000k. And the lowest wattage for 6500k is 65. So with 2 of each, I am a little over 3 wpg, not good for low tech. I found these.. 

http://www.bing.com/shopping/kandolite-96500-fls-e-9w-6500k-single-tube-4-pin-base-compact/p/AE5EB6AEC3F6C5FE5020?q=straight+4+pin+6500k+compact+fluorescent+bulb&lpf=0&lpq=straight%2b4%2bpin%2b6500k%2bcompact%2bfluorescent%2bbulb&FORM=ENCA&lppc=16

don't know if they can work or not. But at 9 watts is it even going to reach the bottom of the tank? 

I did see that about the bulbs that I posted earlier but they would be too high on wattage. I think that is the main problem.. the wattage is going to be too high for low tech with this fixture, but not enough with my standard hood.. Looks like I have a lot of searching and planning ahead of me!


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

Oh my gosh those might fit my fixture! Now how to use only 2 of them??


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

I think I can find all the bulbs I need on that site!!! Thank you! they have lower wattages that I might be able to get 4 lower wattage and have my total wattage be suitable for low tech! Thank you thank you, I have been searching for days for bulbs!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Call the company before placing an order to be sure what you're ordering will work as you want, especially regarding the lower wattage bulbs, etc. Also be sure to check the bulb measurements as I noticed after my post that the bulbs in the link are only 22" which seems odd for a 48" fixture. Even if those bulbs won't work, I'd still call them to ask for help. I think they're small enough that you might can talk with someone knowledgeable instead of just some order taker.

Let me know how it goes.


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

I will do all the investigating I can to make sure that everything is correct.. my bulbs are 21 inches so a 22 inch should fit fine. Thanks again for sticking with all my questions. I will let you know if I get them and they work out for me. I will most likely be back on with questions once I get pat the lighting issues and start purchasing plants :0) if you want to see something amazing you should check out: 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/110242-my-55-gallon-planted-low-tech.html


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Gorgeous tank! Thanks for the link!

Sounds like those bulbs just might be what you're needing. I hope they work out. I think you'll like the results much better than having to use an actinic bulb.


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## prinmel (Mar 28, 2007)

You're welcome.. I can only hope my tank comes out half that good.

Yes, I know those bulbs will work! I have already contacted the seller.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Fantastic! Looks like you're all set now! I'm glad you were able to get the right bulbs for a planted tank. I think you'll be happier with them in the long run. :smile:


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