# Custom LED Spectrum (Reefbreeders Photon 24)



## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

It's better to upload a picture.

In general, it's better to have a color spectrum as close to sunlight as possible since this will provide the necessary red, green, blue light necessary for nice growth.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Green is hardly ever necessary.. Use (more) cyan it its place..495nm (blue-green)

Channel 2 uses 7500k Ch1 3500k?




















http://spectra.1023world.net/

Down and dirty analysis (rough approx of color temps) and elimination of green for cyan and 1W diodes:


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Also add some violet LEDs. They may help the development of certain phenolic compounds and induce certain colors.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Also add some violet LEDs. They may help the development of certain phenolic compounds and induce certain colors.


4 420nm would do it.. O/p could remove some red..


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

I would definitely include 400nm to provide wider spectral coverage. Who knows what this area of the spectrum does to plants?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I would definitely include 400nm to provide wider spectral coverage. Who knows what this area of the spectrum does to plants?


your right in the fact that a lot of things are not known in plant physiology but to be honest I'm not even sold on much value past "blue" or indigo.. 


> Wavelength Influence on Plants | Illumitex
> 
> 
> *Ultraviolet light (10nm-400nm)*
> ...


400nm diodes are costly and/or prone to failure (sub 400 even more so)..and their benefits in fw is questionable..unless you are eating them..

http://www.illumitex.com/impacts-colored-light-plants/#comments

mouse over to get a scroll bar.. An annoying "feature" of that website.

Interesting patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20140123555


> In this lighting system the narrowband light sources preferably include (1) a first narrowband light source producing a light emission in a narrow band including a wavelength of 430 nanometers that is a first absorption peak of chlorophyll A; (2) a second narrowband light source producing a light emission in a narrow band including a wavelength of 662 nanometers that is a second absorption peak of chlorophyll A; (3) a third narrowband light source producing a light emission in a narrow band including a wavelength of 453 nanometers that is a first absorption peak of chlorophyll B; and (4) a fourth narrowband light source producing a light emission in a narrow band including a wavelength of 642 nanometers that is a second absorption peak of chlorophyll B.
> [0042]
> The narrowband light sources preferably still further include (5) a fifth narrowband light source producing a light emission in a narrow band including a wavelength of 450 nanometers that is a first absorption peak of beta carotene; and (6) a sixth narrowband light source producing a light emission in a narrow band including a wavelength of 480 nanometers that is a second absorption peak of beta carotene.
> [0043]
> ...


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> your right in the fact that a lot of things are not known in plant physiology but to be honest I'm not even sold on much value past "blue" or indigo..


That's why we need someone to test them out. I've already replaced five 6500K LEDs from the Quad EVO with 410nm violets. I'm hoping there'll be some kind of effect from this spectral range.


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> 4 420nm would do it.. O/p could remove some red..




So, reading through these posts, it sounds like it would be safe to take the red out (keeping deep red only), and I should probably add some violet and deep blue to hit some of the shorter wavelength peaks? Keep in mind, I still want the light output to look good (obviously), and I want to be able to do some approximation of a sunrise, so I need to keep it divided into a 'warm' channel and a 'cool' channel.


Thanks for all your help!


-Justin


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

No you don't need to do that many changes..except for using green your initial one was pretty darn good..

My last one added 4 diodes (which of course you can't do) to it and only swapped green w/ cyan.

cyan is a VERY visible color.. 420nm is a very not so visible color to the eye...

So actually taking the orig design, you could just as easily keep cyan the same and just replace the green w/ 420. You have the green on the "cool" channel anyways..

I didn't mind sticking more cyan in the "cool" channel because I'm pretty sure you will mostly run it at less % than the warm channel at any time.. 

bottom line use your original but substitute 420 for 520 and you should be good to go............without over-complicating it..

Only thing I like to do is move colors to the "inside" rows to get better blending.....And any close group of R(any red)G(any green/cyan)B(blues and purples) will create a white of sorts when blended..but consider whites more in the "green" area.. if that makes sense..


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> bottom line use your original but substitute 420 for 520 and you should be good to go............without over-complicating it..
> 
> Only thing I like to do is move colors to the "inside" rows to get better blending.....And any close group of R(any red)G(any green/cyan)B(blues and purples) will create a white of sorts when blended..but consider whites more in the "green" area.. if that makes sense.



Gotcha, I also work with stage lighting, so lots of color blending theory in my head, but aquarium lights and stage lights are very different beasts. CT and CRI translate between the two, but no one cares about PAR on stage.


So, taking the last recommendations into account, I have moved stuff around a bit to try to get somewhat even distribution, but there is more red than cyan, so the central strips won't really balance to white. I moved all of the neutral whites into the center strip also to get all of the short wavelength energy that is available on channel 1 closer to the reds in hopes of evening up the final spread a bit. I can probably run the 14k moonlights to make the center more evenly white if I need to.


-Justin


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tHat's the concept for my 40 breeder third generation lighting..
Outside row are 6500 and 3500k white
ind inside rows of 1)cyan 2)660nm red and 3)royal blue and 6500k
center of front row to center of back row is 6"
Blue channel is in the middle w/ the 6500k's intersperes. Each color has 4 diodes though. 
120 degree native optics and my rows are spread farther than in the Reefbreeders.. 
works pretty good.. some "spots" due to condensation lenses on the glass top occasionally..
top image is w/ cyan at full ([email protected])
bottom w/ out:


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

Jeff, do you use 120 deg optics because your light relatively close to the water? My tank will be open top with the light hung above, so I was planning on 90 deg optics. This should be a bit better for light spill and should also allow some of the individual colors to mix in the air before they reach the water.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jrygel said:


> Jeff, do you use 120 deg optics because your light relatively close to the water?


yes...


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> your right in the fact that a lot of things are not known in plant physiology but to be honest I'm not even sold on much value past "blue" or indigo..


I was hesitant to report any of my observations until I was absolutely sure, but looking at my tank today, it really does appear that the 410nm violet LEDs produced a much deeper red color in Ludwigia sp. "Red" on the older leaves. It's almost a black red, actually. When I removed the older leaves to inspect under natural light, they are indeed black-red. This did not occur before the LED swap so I can say with most certainty that violet light can induce even deeper red/purple coloration.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I was hesitant to report any of my observations until I was absolutely sure, but looking at my tank today, it really does appear that the 410nm violet LEDs produced a much deeper red color in Ludwigia sp. "Red" on the older leaves. It's almost a black red, actually. When I removed the older leaves to inspect under natural light, they are indeed black-red. This did not occur before the LED swap so I can say with most certainty that violet light can induce even deeper red/purple coloration.


that is an interesting find.. Now to determine how braod that range may be..










Maxspect Razor R420R 160w LED Lighting System 27 Inch 16,000k


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I would definitely include 400nm to provide wider spectral coverage. Who knows what this area of the spectrum does to plants?


 As far as I've read, nothing.

Bump:


jeffkrol said:


> that is an interesting find.. Now to determine how braod that range may be..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 This is likely a protective response.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Green is hardly ever necessary.. Use (more) cyan it its place..495nm (blue-green)
> 
> Channel 2 uses 7500k Ch1 3500k?
> 
> ...


Green good for us because it increases the apparent brightness and helps balance the color rendering index.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Steve001 said:


> Green good for us because it increases the apparent brightness and helps balance the color rendering index.


CRI of 97.. ZERO green diodes. Cyan, Deep Red and purple are what is missing from white LED's 
Granted cyan is blue/green.. 
but it kills 2 (or more) birds w/ one stone..


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## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> CRI of 97.. ZERO green diodes. Cyan, Deep Red and purple are what is missing from white LED's
> Granted cyan is blue/green..
> but it kills 2 (or more) birds w/ one stone..


Hello jeffkrol,


I just stumbled on this post last nite. I have been undecided as to what lighting to use on my developing 250 gallon project. 60"L x 36"d x 27"H. I think that Reefbreeders might be my best bet. Is this the final and best incarnation of a spectrum for these lights? I would be looking at their 55" light so this spectrum would just be replicated proportionately to the larger fixture. I hope that its ok that I would be using a spectrum based upon your hard work.....but this is beyond my capabilities to figure out.....so I need to rely on the help and expertise of others.


Thanks David


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

no, the above is all "theoretical" layouts..
a "working" layout Reefbreeders is here:
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...=file,xlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AG6a759nZcsHNQ0
And the journal:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/941866-60-gallon-starfire-dutch.html

no 420nm or auxilirary blue though..
The above o/p's w/ modifications as mentioned should work.
Unfortunately there are a few electrical parameters that Reefbreeders may need to deal with..


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## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

What kind of issues are u referring to Jeff? Leds seem so very close for the planted tank but just not quite there yet. This reef breeder business seems to be the closest option for large tanks from a commercial vender thus far. I like the fact that to me at least they seem to be somewhat userfriendly for your average Joe to be able to change out diodes to tweak the spectrum.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

islanddave1 said:


> What kind of issues are u referring to Jeff? Leds seem so very close for the planted tank but just not quite there yet. This reef breeder business seems to be the closest option for large tanks from a commercial vender thus far. I like the fact that to me at least they seems to be somewhat friendly for you average Joe to be able to change out diodes themselves to tweak the spectrum.


The Reefbreeders apparently run a series/parallel arrangement so diode voltages (V(f) need to be balanced on the parallel pairs.
I suspect there may be some voltage limits as well. 
Means some combos are not feasible.


> Remember, in a parallel build you must balance your strings and to to it well and easily you need the resistors.


I should have figured that since they probably use 2 drivers and that would put 24 3W LED's in series on each channel
(24x 3 =72v: 12x3(x2) only needs 36v (but double the current)

Ideally they would go to a 4 driver panel making it a 4 channel array/panel..and eliminate any need for balancing strings in a constant current array..

Logan and the "supplier/builders" will work out the details. the only caution is sometimes they will "Decide" for you if things are not within the design parameters.. 
From the above, doing this may or may not be feasible but very similar could be done:









Bump:


islanddave1 said:


> Leds seem so very close for the planted tank but just not quite there yet.


They are there in spades, only the functionality needs to be worked on. 
One of the reasons for DIY..knowing limits..


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## vilenarios (Jan 28, 2015)

Jeff posted my build above, and you can see the pictures in that thread. I plan on taking a video at some point. Definitely ended up running the cool channel on a much lower percentage than the warm channel, as it gets a bit too green. Its interesting to read how purple can help with the red coloration... maybe I will alter the layout to include those. The main downside of the fixture so far has been the complexity of the layout itself - as Jeff mentions, the voltages are very specific for each LED, and they simply cant just be swapped out without getting an exact new design from Logan. 

The light is about 14 inches off the surface, making approx 34 inches to substrate of my 40x18x20H.

Using the current schedule. I think I can still probably boost the output a bit higher, but without a PAR meter its hard to tell.

24 Hour	CH1	CH2	CH3	12 hour
0:00	10	35	100	12:00 PM
1:00	15	40	100	1:00 PM
2:00	20	40	100	2:00 PM
3:00	15	40	50	3:00 PM
4:00	10	30	50	4:00 PM
5:00	1	20	10	5:00 PM
6:00	0	10	0	6:00 PM
7:00	0	1	30	7:00 PM
8:00	0	0	30	8:00 PM
9:00	0	0	30	9:00 PM
10:00	0	0	5	10:00 PM
11:00	0	0	0	11:00 PM
12:00	0	0	1	12:00 AM
13:00	0	0	0	1:00 AM
14:00	0	0	0	2:00 AM
15:00	0	0	0	3:00 AM
16:00	0	0	0	4:00 AM
17:00	0	0	0	5:00 AM
18:00	0	0	1	6:00 AM
19:00	0	1	20	7:00 AM
20:00	0	5	10	8:00 AM
21:00	0	5	30	9:00 AM
22:00	0	15	50	10:00 AM
23:00	0	25	75	11:00 AM


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