# Super Vortex Reaktor



## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

External Vortex Reaktör.


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## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

looks badass

how does it maintain the vortex though? wouldn't it just fill up with water


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Strong powerhead forcing water through it. The direction of the water flow (against the side of the tube; see last picture) rather than having it go straight down causes a vortex effect.

1000-1200 bubbles per minute? That's a lot. Assuming 10 bubbles = 1mL, You're gonna get 100 mL to 120 mL of dissolution per minute? Hrmm.


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## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

Wow thats awesome i figured out how it works now  Where do you get the clear pipe to make it from though ?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

It looks like the external one has the water entering the side, along the side of the bottle (?), generating a vortex, and exiting from the center of the bottle at the bottom. And, the CO2 enters at the top in the center. So, the vortex keeps the CO2 captured in the middle, where it stays long enough to dissolve in the water around it. And, the "bottle" looks like two bottles with the bottoms cut off, and joined to make a double ended bottle with a neck at each end. Am I right? It looks like it would work very well, but I have no idea how much CO2 would dissolve, nor how much this would decrease the flow from a powerhead or pump. 

The internal version looks like it works the same way, and since the photo shows it in action, you can see what a powerful vortex it generates. If it were to not dissolve any of the CO2 you would see it bubbling out the bottom.


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## Martin (Jan 15, 2005)

I like it... I like it alot!

great idea.

If only I had some seethrough acrylics!


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## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

According to my calculations it dissolves the 100-150 ml. gas, that I have put inside the tube, within 1 minute.
The "bottle/clear pipe" is a cheap bottom cleaning pipe that is made in Turkey. It looks as if it was made specially for my vortex reactor. You may use acrylic pipes or anything similar to this one.

Hoppy,
it works exactly like you've described. All CO2 is dissoved, no CO2 escapes from this reactor.

Just pay attention to the size of the bottom exit hole. Its size and the rector's length is very important and should be proportionate. If you make the hole bigger than it should be, then no vortex occurs. If you make it smaller than it should be, then the vortex is slim and results in CO2 escape.
You have to work a little and try different sizes until you reach the optimum hole size. I was lucky to find it at first try, but I tried other sizes to make sure it's the optimum one.


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## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

External Vortex can dissolve 2200 - 2400 bubbles per minute. This sample works 1000 Lt/h(Eheim 2217) water circulation.


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## Brian A (Sep 3, 2002)

hhmmm, I am interested in finding the materials to make this work now. It looks amazing.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

but what do you do at night when you don't need co2 injection? you can't turn off your filter.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

I would think you could fine your required materials in the python gravel cleaners. one end for co2 injection, and the other for water exit then you drill and plumb in the exit hole.


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## Brian A (Sep 3, 2002)

maybe. I would love to be able to find everything here in the states so I can use the same material.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

well.. I would say to sue the python grave,l cleaners for a few reasons. 

you can fine the piping as long as you want it to be. 
the end caps can be bought easily and easily connect and can be easily sealed to the tubbing. 
the python gravel cleaners have a narrower diameter and would make the vortex spin even faster with more force.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> but what do you do at night when you don't need co2 injection? you can't turn off your filter.


Plug your CO2 into a solenoid. The CO2 will shut off.

You can get acrylic tubes at TAP Plastics.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

that would not work for DIY haha. xD I should go pressurized but I am unwilling to spend the money when my DIY works fine on 2/3 of my large tanks.


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## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

you could use 2 soda bottles connected together also


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## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

This is no doubt a great invention. Regards, jC.


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## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> but what do you do at night when you don't need co2 injection? you can't turn off your filter.


I use a PH controller with a selenoid. 

The material I used is also a gravel cleaner. You may use anything with similar shape and that is hard plastic (cola bottles won't work, needs something harder).


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## jay1st (Jan 22, 2006)

Nice reactor, but someone else already had the idea.

Seen here : http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/33344-100-co2-dissolution-inline-power-reactor.html


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

jay1st said:


> Nice reactor, but someone else already had the idea.
> 
> Seen here : http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/33344-100-co2-dissolution-inline-power-reactor.html



Hi jay 1st.
Do you know that when I saw this thread I immediately thought of you and wanted mention it in a post that someone else has a very similar design but believe it or not I just couldn't remember your username and/or the thread.


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## jay1st (Jan 22, 2006)

> Hi jay 1st.
> Do you know that when I saw this thread I immediately thought of you and wanted mention it in a post that someone else has a very similar design but believe it or not I just couldn't remember your username and/or the thread.


No worries, I'm not a big "poster" in this forum !


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## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

That is not exactly the same thing.Regards, JC.


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## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

jay1st said:


> Nice reactor, but someone else already had the idea.
> 
> Seen here : http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/33344-100-co2-dissolution-inline-power-reactor.html


The vortex reactor is totally different than that of yours. There is a huge difference. I suggest that you reanalyse the pictures.

In my vortex reactor, the CO2 enters the tube from the top and accumulates on the top part of the reactor. Then the 'CO2 gas' creates /becomes a vortex with the driving force of the H2O coming up the filter and thus dissoves totally (since the friction is much higher).

Your reactor's working principle is a copy of certain protein skimmers. The CO2 breaks up inside the filter pipe and enters the reactor. In this model the CO2 does not create a vortex. They are sucked in by the powerhead and then spreyed inside the reactor.

I hope that now you realize that neither the idea nor the reactor is the same.
Perhaps in the future you will be more careful before making such comments.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Does this mean you're not getting flow in you tank from you filter? Of course a simple powerhead would solve that problem but JW.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

yasmut, no need to get angry... all he did was link a page... unless the words "but someone else already had the idea." you thought were meant to be mean. I do not think they are that dissimilar. I dont think the co2 entering the top or near the top on the side really makes much difference. And jays design does use a vortex. The main difference in my opinion? jays has the capability to multipass through over and over with the extra pump. Even if not needed, the extra pump becomes a booster to enhance the vortex. With the added pump might be better when your main pump/filter isnt strong enough for a vortex by itself. So both designs use a vortex, with water and co2 comming in the top of the vortex, the current creating the vortex enters near the top and along the side of the reactor, and water with fully dissolved co2 exits the bottom. Other than that the differences are small.

Jay - nice avatar... here is my current avatar on goldfishparadise forums..








And also this one at fastmhz.com forum...








Sorry getting OT


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## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

I change water enterance to fit into the external filter. This way it works more powerfull. it is conected to Ehiem 2217.
Dissolves 2500 bubbles per minute.


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## jay1st (Jan 22, 2006)

No frustration here !

As Crazy Loaches said, there is almost no difference:

If I fill my reactor with 3" of CO2 the same thing as yours will happen, but if I start the circulating pump the CO2 will dissolve very very fast.
Having the CO2 injected on the inlet from the pump helps creating small bubbles as well.

My initial intent was NOT to have this big pocket of CO2. I am using a PH controller, so when it shuts close the solenoid the PH will not drop, as there is no more CO2 to dissolve.
If I was using the "massive CO2 pocket" it will keep dropping to a lower value than the one I choosed.

I am not trying to get a big vortex, just a tiny small one is enough (u can see it in the vids) to reach the point where all of the gas is 100% dissolved, no losses at all.
Even if some of it is not dissolved at first pass, the gas is lighter than H2O so it stays in the center and it's sucked by the recirc-pump and "chewed" by the impeller (I also thought about using a needle-wheel  ) and reinjected in the circuit.

Not a single bubble is going in the display tank ( even if my tank is ugly).

No mis-understanding here, all DIY is good to share, especially good ideas !

BTW, I've been quite often to Turkey 2 years ago.......

For CL: 
I use this one as well on an other forum:








Bender rocks !


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

yasmut; looking at your last photo, it occurred to me you could make that out of nothing more than one small plastic soda bottle hung upside down with 2 holes and pipes glued on for the water and Co2 inlets, then leave the bottle cap off at the bottom neck. ginger ale is sold here in green plastic.


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## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

spynet soda bottle is too brittle IMO. Regards, jC.


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## leoslizards (Feb 2, 2007)

spypet said:


> yasmut; looking at your last photo, it occurred to me you could make that out of nothing more than one small plastic soda bottle hung upside down with 2 holes and pipes glued on for the water and Co2 inlets, then leave the bottle cap off at the bottom neck. ginger ale is sold here in green plastic.


LOL. Could be worth a try. 
yasmut what's the diameter of the tube? 

Can this also be used on a DIY Co2 system?


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## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

the diameter is 5 cm. 
it may be used for DIY CO2 aswell. any bottle works as long as it is hard.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I stumbled on this "vortex chopper" reactor on ebaY
I don't know if the 4 discs spin or are fixed, but
notice how the water inlet is offset to create
the same sort of vortex sought on this thread.



he no longer sells such items, focusing instead on ADA'like items


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## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

Really nice reaktor.


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## leoslizards (Feb 2, 2007)

What does ADA mean?


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## yasmut (Oct 11, 2006)

ADA= Aqua Design Amano


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## lbsfarms (Jan 30, 2003)

I looked for this on ebay and couldn't find it, what is the sellers name?


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## jay1st (Jan 22, 2006)

> I looked for this on ebay and couldn't find it, what is the sellers name?


Just click on the picture.


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## g8wayg8r (Dec 24, 2003)

CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> that would not work for DIY haha. xD I should go pressurized but I am unwilling to spend the money when my DIY works fine on 2/3 of my large tanks.


Actually, DIY should work great but you will have to mount the unit in your tank and leave the bottom open. I bought something similar and it works great. You could also hang it outside you tank near the top. Either way, you don't have much of a head to push against with your DIY gas.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Well I've started my own thread too, so there. and I was swiftly shot down. 

To make this thread REALLY useful (and it already is) could you post the dimensions of the external reaktor? IE length, diameter of holes? Great design.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I recently established a shallow breeder tank for nano size fish hosting only carpet foreground plants, so I thought it was time to improve my DIY Co2 diffusion. I purchased a simple $10 cheap, small 14cm long ball reactor, then took the ball out since the top and bottom twist off, and I got a nice little vortex going off my XP3 outlet. the XP3's water outlet flow valve comes in handy by allowing me to set just the right pressure to keep a Vortex going without too many bubbles flying out the bottom. I prefer using the pipe outlet bottom instead of a foam ball as it helps keep the vortex spinning, and gives my fish some fast water flow along the glass they seem to enjoy. I like that there are no diffusion ceramics or foam inserts I need ever clean. roud:


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## sunmiztres (Mar 20, 2006)

Wow!! looks great and looks like it will work great. Good job.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I removed the bottom and extended the Vortex tube to the gravel,
and I got this silent effect that my fish all seem fascinated with.
the 1mm gravel keeps recycling so the effect never stops, but
I have a feeling the plastic will get chewed away after a while.
hmmm, come to think of it, if it went any deeper it might chew
away my water retaining silicon fish tank seam :redface:

and yes, it's in focus, well lit, and done with the use of a tripod  

*Now for the World Premier of:








SpyPet's Vortex GRAVEL 
100% Co2 Diffusion Reactor! *  <--click here


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

I wonder if these vortex style reactors could be used to dissolve O2 somewhat effeciently into tank water anyone know? I've been debating in the back of my head what I'd do if I tried to setup a co2 injected tank with fish that liked high O2, or even if supplimental O2 would be good with my 240G I am setting up to be heavily planted with various Botiine Loaches (which do also prefer highly oxygenated water). I know O2 is much more difficult to dissolve into water, but it seems like a larger vortex style reactor can dissolve huge amounts of CO2, so maybe it would be good for O2 as well?


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

crazy loaches said:


> a larger vortex style reactor can dissolve huge amounts of CO2, so maybe it would be good for O2 as well?


Definitely. when I do a water change, my chamber gets filled with air.
once the water is refilled and canister is back on, the trapped air gets
diffused very quickly, even though the fresh water is already O2 rich.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

hmmmm, would it be possible to run a dual reactor where co2 and o2 from a top feeder pipe are fed in at the same time or would this need a seperate reactor? im guessing just a feeder pipe not a pump or would the vortex "fail"


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

if the O2 and Co2 came thru 2 separate air lines into the reactor it would be fine. I would not T-value them together before the reactor. obviously the O2 pump would need to use a needle valve along the tubing on the way to the reactor in order to limit O2 introduction to bubbles per minute. You may need to use a longer and/or wider reactor tube to create a longer vortex thus more diffusion potential, and perhaps more GPH of water pressure from your powerhead or canister filter.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

hmm, interesting i wouldnt use a pump for o2 (unless i have to?) and i would do it all externally so reactor size shouldnt be that much of a factor how would i go about doing it for dual o2 and c2 would my proposed 501 be powerful enough (im using a nano nearly 5g tank


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I honestly don't think a vortex reactor is practical at all for a 5gal tank as the reactor itself along with a powerhead would take up too much valuable growing space. you are better off using a disc or airstone diffuser, feeding your gas into your canister inlet, or using an external inline reactor along your canister outlet. If you insist on a vortex reactor, may I suggest experimenting with small plastic soda bottles until you reach the desired results. Keep in mind people pursue vortex reactors for their high gas volume diffusion potential, which really is not a relevant feature when serving only 5gal of water.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

im not going to lie to you spypet i simply like hitech stuff i can build myself and the vortex ticked all the right boxes *looks ashamed*.
i realy like the concept and ill almost certainly use one if i go bigger im interested to see the final outcome of this thread though vortex reactors have to be one of if not the best way of geting c2 into the system, shame ones over kill for my 5g


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

if you want something hi-tech for your nano try one of these spiral diffusion disk glass models sold all over ebaY. personally I hate diffusion disks because they require cleaning, but until you get a bigger tank, something like this is tiny, will look awesome, and still satisfy your vortex shaped fantasies. oh, and don't bother diffusing O2 into a 5gal nano as it really is not necessary at all in a planted tank since the water surface and plant O2 respiration are already providing all the O2 the limited bioload of a 5gal tank could ever need.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

I like the vortex design. I use a regular PVC Reactor designed by Rex that I built and works just fine. No noise. No loss of C02. 100 % desolved C02. But I don't know how large a tank this one will be able to handle though.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Let the Insanity Continue!  










*Now for the World Premier of:








SpyPet's Gravel Fountain! 
with Co2 Diffusion! *  <--click here  <--night version


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## NoObLet (Apr 23, 2007)

Well done.... roud: roud: roud:


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Neat-o! :thumbsup:


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Thanks for the bump, guys. 
24 hours later and it's still going strong as
the course sand cycles back into the center.
my Endler's are really getting a kick out of it.
during the day it looks like a water geyser
and at night it looks like a lava flow vent.
since I'm using my reactor outflow, all I need
was some 1/2" tubing and a plastic elbow.
but the key element is that gravel which is
round, uniform in size, and relatively heavy.
it's called *Peace River* Sand from CaribSea.
what's interesting is the sand movement
takes ALL the flow energy out of the out
rushing water, so my tank water is dead
still unless I add a separate water mover.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You can easily get this same effect with the old design I used, a nice little tornado of bubbles of various sizes.

This adds more surface to flow area= more efficacy.

That's the whole idea with micro bubbles and disc also, I just recirculate them a bit more and as the gas builds up, the venturi purges the false gas.

Adding a restriction (the cap with a smaller outflow) at the bottom reduces flow and allows a larger single bubbles tornado. The Plant Guild Reactor and several other DIY things add a sponge to save these bubbles.

You get better results by NOT saving these bubbles after the gas starts to build up.

For a rate of dissolution, you cannot merely add gas to a reactor a run for 1 minute.

Time of running and time of day are also important, a sustained rate of dissolution is quite another matter in other words.


The open end to the reactor tube allows a nice gentle flow, no need to have a high point source flow. This also allows only tiny micro bubbles out, just like a glass disc.

Dissolving gas in other words is not the main goal although part of it to some degree, adding CO2 to grow plants well is the goal. By purging the false gas and making the mist, you have better results and these may be measured using a O2 meter to gauge plant growth rates. 

Disc work in a similar manner when combined with gentle current.

CO2 gas is cheap, a stable method to mist the plants with CO2 seems to give the best(versus ones that also work) results, both myself and Amano seem to think so.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Do you think it will work well in the same way except attached to a FilStar xP3 output? With the spraybar at the end of the bottle at the bottom? That is what I am testing...

EDIT: My reactor is a small 6 inch long hamster water bottle. The spraybar attaches to the outlet. A hole is drilled at the top on the side for the water input. CO2 will enter from the top of the bottle. Is the bottle too small for diffusion?


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

a reaction bottle AND spraybar might be too much water resistance for
your Co2 gas input and your canister filter to handle properly.
using the hamster bottle will be fine as long as you regulate the outflow
using the XP3's valve so that not too many bubbles spit out the bottom


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Question: How is it too much resistance for the CO2 when people have all these inline CO2 reactors with twists and turns in the pipe to the outlet?


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I'll eventually post more about this in my own photo album thread on the new foot deep breeder tank I'm developing, but I love how this came out so I though I'd share it now _shame my photography skills and camera suck_. That's a medium size *X* shaped piece of cheap Fellerstone Malaysian Driftwood, a Hydor LED red light, CaribSea's peace river 1-2mm gravel, and the water is coming from my XP3 water outlet piped using 1/2" tubing and a rounded elbow, under and up after it's gone through my vortex reactor. This gravel geyser has been running for days now, and I have not had to resupply the gravel to that corner at all. It makes for a really great visual effect day and especially at night when the lights are out, and is completely harmless to even the smallest of fish who all seem fascinated by this corner. _I could mount the LED buried in the gravel pointing up into the geyser, but I didn't want to waste another $40 just to bring the gravel level of my whole tank up another inch, as this tank will only house shallow root plants, so it does not need more than the two inches already there, only to end up stealing another inch of swimming space from my fish.
_the lesson here; do your own thing - don't just copy everyone else's tank roud:
_sadly, my pictures barely do this thing justice;_


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## dwstonebraker (May 3, 2007)

Spynet said 
". I purchased a simple $10 cheap, small 14cm long ball reactor, then took the ball out since the top and bottom twist off, and I got a nice little vortex going off my XP3 outlet."

Where did you purchase this?


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

If you google around the web you will fine that people sell these cheap green plastic chambers from China for $10 to $30 depending on how big a pig the reseller is. they are all pretty much the same, some having one ball, some having 6 balls and twice the length, some having spiral fins, some have a white airstone, some don't, but the key is to get the same plastic top/bottom screw on/off housing with the in/outlet mounted at a tangent, and at least one length of middle housing pipe. The in/outlet tubing will adapt to our 1/2" size which is what most cheap gravel vacuum lift tubes use. If you get one with an airstone, I recommend yanking it out, so you'll have one less item to clean when it inevitably gets clogged over time. with shipping I got my "Up Aquarium Supply" D-402 off ebaY for only $15 just a few Months ago. BTW one "bad" thing about having a high Co2 diffusion rate, is it continuously tries to make your tank water more acidic, so be prepared to keep pH buffering it with baking soda almost daily. Limestone _Calcium Carbonate_ like Texas Holey Rock my help keep the pH above neutral, but it does not look very natural in a planted tank.

here's the whole cheap Chinese line;
http://www.up-aqua.com/pro-waterplant/ee-main-pro-waterplant-diffuse.htm

this Malaysian is selling the D-421
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250129792568


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