# Plant Safe Fish?



## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

What fish did you keep that were not plant safe? All the ones you listed are fine.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Discus are the one fish I would caution you about- extrordinarily delicate and expensive to boot.

Sounds like most of the fish you like are blackwater fish- which means they need to be kept in very clean water, especially if they are wild-caught. If you're good at maintaining water parameters then give the small tetras a try. Just know in a tank your size they probably will not school like they would in a big tank.

If you're wanting a bit hardier fish, small schools of barbs or rasboras, hatchets, cories and otos would make a nice "layered" bioload? 

Rainbows tend to get rather large- depending on the species you may be able to keep a few, but IMO keeping larger numbers of smaller schooling fish makes a bigger impact.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Hey
Thank you for the repliesActually, I was using the 29 gallon as an example(I worded it badly). Its actually a larger 125 gallon. I have been decent with water parameters and we're not exactly planning to jump into this as far as discus go. Also, yes I'm going for a more Amazonian environment. Because I know that screwing up something like a 125 planted tank is not an option whatsoever. I'm planning on 10% water changes every week because I don't want to do anything to stress fish such as discus and I figure its enough to keep the water clear aswell. The fish I had that ate all of the plants were pretty much plant-eating machines as I stupidly bought a 1.5" silver dollar that is now 3.5". One last question. .is a siamese algae eater bad for plants:icon_ques Finally,(just so you know) the tank is only on its stand and nothing more. These are all questions "pre-setup" so I can get an idea of how everything is going to go.
Thanks alot


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

AHH... yep 125gal stocking is a really different ball of wax from 29gal! lol

First I'll address the SAE- they have been known to eat some plants. My personal issue with them is they can get aggressive, and really aren't that great at keeping algae under control in comparison with snails, oto cats, bushy nosed plecos, amano and cherry shrimp, and the like. Many ppl do keep and love them- my personal preference is to avoid them.

You could absolutely keep any of the fish you mentioned in a 125gal. Large schools of smaller fish are absolutely stunning. Some additional fish you might consider are rasboras, hatchetfish, congo tetras, barbs, and/or pencilfish, along with swordtails, guppies, or platies. There actually aren't that many fish that are notorious plant-eaters- you just happened to land on silver dollars LOL Mollies also can be problematic- but not always.

Have you picked your substrate yet? In a tank your size this is a big-cost item- maybe even as much or more than your light fixture.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

SAE's are widely celebrated as being the best algae eater to have. There is some debate to this, as many people have had issues with aggression later on when the SAE's grow large. (Yes, SAE's, not just CAE's) There is also some evidence that SAE's may eat moss and other delicate plants. But, not all SAE's are like this, so your mileage may vary. 

Ah yes, silver dollars are lawn mowers. That 3.5" silver dollar can get much, much larger. Like, bigger than a piranha. 

I am not sure if you are planning to live in your house forever or not, but you may want to consider putting a mat of some kind between the stand and tank. It will stick after a long period of time under the weight of the tank. 

Discus are actually not as delicate as everyone makes them out to be. Their reputation for being delicate comes from juvenile discus. Juvenile discus need to be fed 6, maybe even more times a day, and messy food at that (black worms, beefheart, etc.) They also require pristine water (low nitrates), which makes it difficult to maintain in a planted tank (gravel vacuuming). This is why many discus keepers use bare bottom tanks. However, it is much easier to keep adult discus in a planted tank. Adults can tolerate higher nitrate levels, which is good, because we often fertilize with nitrates. Discus work very well in low tech tanks, because less fertilization is needed. Discus, and fish in general, are not necessarily stressed by large water changes. In fact, many discus keepers do water changes in excess of 25% 3 or more times a week. We planted tank keepers also often do large water changes, up to 50% (sometimes, but rarely, more). Planted tanks are different because maintaining water quality is a different process. In a non planted tank, you still need to do a cycle to make sure ammonia and nitrite are non existent. This should not be a maintenance issue; you should not have to do water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite at 0. If you do, the bioload is too high. (You do have the option of overstocking the tank on purpose and maintaining it using water changes) But, in a non planted tank, water changes are done to keep nitrates and phosphates down. In a planted tank, these are nutrients for plants. As long as there is plant growth, these will generally not climb too high. In high tech tanks, where there is a lot of plant growth, you actually need to add these in addition to the fish waste. 

It sounds like you have decided to go with the low tech route, which is a good choice. My favorite low tech plants are java fern, anubias, and mosses (there are many varieties of these plants). You can use this to find more plants you like: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/ 

Before you begin buying plants, you should probably decide on your equipment. Let us know what you have! Best of luck with your tank


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Hi again
Yeah, every time I think of something, I think of something else and ask myself why I keep forgetting. The substrate that I'm planning on using is gardening soil mixed with peat moss under a layer of play sand. The equipment that I'm thinking about is pretty low cost. I was thinking of a 12volt pump and anything else that I can find to run either cost efficient or solar. I'm trying to make the most natural looking tank I can without raising the electric bill over $100(isn't everyone!) So you can get a decent idea of what I'm trying to at least be similar to, I'll send a link for a tank I thought was pretty cool -http://www.nobobo.com/- If you can help me figure out a way to even know what these plants are, please tell me.
Thanks alot!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Ok someone else will have to help with the stem plants b/c I'm not good at IDing those yet.

Vallisnerias are the tall grassy plants on the far left- those look like Jungle Vals to me. 

The low-growing dense mat of dark green underneath them is java moss.

The "grass" carpet on the left side of the tank is probably pygmy chain sword (Echinodorus tenellus) though it might also be a dwarf saggitaria.

The lime green broad-leafed plant on the bottom right behind the carpet is a swordplant of some sort- hard to know which one without a closer pic, but perhaps may be Echinodorus amazonicus or maybe E. parviflorus? If it's E. amazonicus it will get way to big for that spot...

The red plant is a lotus.

I believe most of the plants growing around and on the driftwood to the right are java ferns.

These are some good sites for selecting/Id'ing plants in addition to what can be found on this forum.

http://www.aquabotanic.com/
http://www.dennerle.de/EN/Pflanzenergebnis.asp
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php
http://www.tropica.com/default.asp


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## efish (Apr 23, 2006)

I have a really beautiful German Blue Ram that gives a nice splash of color to a tank. However, he does eat shrimp and he doesn't move much.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

One more thing about your substrate- you need to be cautious with both gardening soil and peat. Peat is organic and if you use too much it will send the pH in your tank through the floor. Friend of mine uses it to breed apistos and keeps his water around 4.6 just with peat.

Garden soil also can contain organic matter plus fertilizers and other additives that may not be safe for use underwater. You need to know what to look for before you buy. If you're sure you want to go with soil (and you need to read up on it first) I'd encourage you to look at Schultz Aquatic Soil- this is made for use in ponds and though I've never personally used it, it's supposed to be pretty good stuff. You should be able to get it at Home Depot or Lowes or other major garden centers.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

FYI, the guy who runs nobobo is on this site as well. That is one of my favorite tanks, and it is easy to see why


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