# New Hi-Tech Rimless 20 Long - *Dutch-ish / Iwagumi* +20L Reef dual setup



## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

FI was craving a new planted tank after my old 20L went from this --










To This --










I also had a 55g planted tank but the upkeep was just too much in the winter and I slacked on EI water changes and dosing, sold my discus and tore it down. Heres one of the last tank shots.. RIP


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

*And so it begins...*

As for inspiration... well, there really wasn't any tank in particular. I just knew that my old 55 had that convex canyon look and I wanted to go with a mountain peak type look and I really liked some tanks I had seen lately using white sand. I didn't really plan out my hardscape.. I already had the stuff I was going to use and I knew which side of the stones were the most visually interesting, but that's about it. 

After struggling for 20 minutes or so to get the stones to sit up.. I realized that I had that wood from the old 20L and it might help brace the rocks... Which it did, they fit snug right between the limbs.

The combo ended up making the layout a bit more original... Still think Im going to bring the plants and substrate out a little further to the right rear side, but that might fill in better anyway once the plants start carpeting out towards the sand, we shall see.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

I got in some Dwarf Baby Tears, Ludwigia Ruben, Ranunculus Inundatus and Marsilea Minuta and a bit of Riccia. This is right after planting.

I had saved some Ammania, Hyrdocotyle sp, Stargrass and Pearlweed from my 55 which you saw in the first pictures.


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## Neatfish (Jun 22, 2012)

Pretty cool tanks. You still have that SW tank?


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## johnnytrn (Feb 23, 2014)

Tank looks pretty good. Looks like you just de-rimmed the top? That's exactly what I did to my 20 long, still going strong


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Neatfish said:


> Pretty cool tanks. You still have that SW tank?


Thanks man. Yeah, still going strong. That picture was from just a week or two ago I think. I'm glad I made the plunge into SW... I've had tanks for about 10 years I'd say.. back since I was like 15. They were always pred tanks though. I only got into planted tanks about a year ago when I finished college and finally had some free time. I was on vacation in Mexico this past October and went snorkeling and seeing the reef in person again after getting back into tanks is what made me want to convert that tank to SW.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

johnnytrn said:


> Tank looks pretty good. Looks like you just de-rimmed the top? That's exactly what I did to my 20 long, still going strong


Yeah, Looks so much better. I think the one has been this way for probably 9 months now... Ive knocked it pretty hard quite a few times and theres a wavemaker in their constantly beating the sides a bit... never had a single problem or sign of weakness... However, I wouldnt go any bigger. A guy I know took the rim of his 29 though and hasnt had any issues.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

*The tanks today*

Ok so here is the tank today... been up a few weeks, most plants only went in this past Wednesday or so


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

Man that looks great. You definitely have a knack for hardscapes and overall aquascaping!


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## Trigger334 (Oct 24, 2013)

Wow great tanks... The SW tank is amazing and hope to just into that side of the hobby soon. I love how one of your plants is periling. You must have your lights dialed in. 

Here's my 20 gallon. It's a start, just taking it nice and easy. I would be pumped if it ended up anything like yours.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=574306


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

beedee said:


> Man that looks great. You definitely have a knack for hardscapes and overall aquascaping!



Thanks a lot man! I'm pumped about this tank developing. Yeah, I usually end up liking the hardscapes for the most part... I dont ever sit down and draw them out like I should. I have a 4 year art degree in graphic design, so I think my understanding of the basic art foundations gives me a nice advantage going into it. I always see room for improvement in my scapes though, or look at another tank and think... "Wow, I wish my tank was that nice." Seems like some others I have seen in the art field (design, photography, etc) always have nice tanks. With aquascaping, If you have an eye for balance and focal points... you'll usually come up with a nice scape. I don't ever look at my own that way though, haha. We are all our own worst critics I guess.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Trigger334 said:


> Wow great tanks... The SW tank is amazing and hope to just into that side of the hobby soon. I love how one of your plants is periling. You must have your lights dialed in.
> 
> Here's my 20 gallon. It's a start, just taking it nice and easy. I would be pumped if it ended up anything like yours.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=574306



Thanks a lot! I actually was reading through your thread the other day. Looks like a great start! I would recommend painting the black, The contrast will make the fish pop and hide a lot of the stuff behind the tank. Its an easy thing to do that makes a big difference. Look forward to some full tank shots!

As far as the pealing goes, Its mainly because of co2. Im running pressurized co2 at about 4 bps, so its cranking in there. I do have a quad t5ho fixture but I only have all 4 bulbs running for 2-3 hours a day and the fixture is over 2 feet from the substrate.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I remember your last journal. This is really nice. I was going to suggest painting your skimmer but you already did that haha.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> I remember your last journal. This is really nice. I was going to suggest painting your skimmer but you already did that haha.



Thanks man. Feels good to have another freshwater going. 

Haha, yeah it stuck out like a sore thumb out there white against the black bg. Looks much better now.

Also... A little off topic. But I've noticed that the black high temperature grill paint is the darkest black looking spray paint I've found so far for backgrounds. Darker than fusion IMO.


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## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

Looking good ;D


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

theericafish said:


> Looking good ;D



Thanks man! Finally got some fish lined up... Got some Chili Rasboras lined up to get here in a few weeks but my LFS is getting some Galaxy Rasboras/ Celestial Pearl Danios tomorrow... trying to hold out on them and wait for these chili rasboras.

Anyone have any recommendations or experience with the 2.. I actually never kept CPDs. Kinda wanting the chili rasboras but I dont know much about them. I figure they are pretty easy to keep


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## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

jcgilmore2 said:


> Thanks man! Finally got some fish lined up... Got some Chili Rasboras lined up to get here in a few weeks but my LFS is getting some Galaxy Rasboras/ Celestial Pearl Danios tomorrow... trying to hold out on them and wait for these chili rasboras.
> 
> Anyone have any recommendations or experience with the 2.. I actually never kept CPDs. Kinda wanting the chili rasboras but I dont know much about them. I figure they are pretty easy to keep


I had cpds, they're a really cool fish with a lot of personality. They flare up and battle eachother. The one downside is in my tank they always hid and are more roamy than schooly. Depends on the effect you are going for I suppose.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

theericafish said:


> I had cpds, they're a really cool fish with a lot of personality. They flare up and battle eachother. The one downside is in my tank they always hid and are more roamy than schooly. Depends on the effect you are going for I suppose.


Yeah I was reading up on them more last night and heard the same. I guess I'm going to hold out and get the Chili Rasboras or maybe just a big school of green neons.


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## Grumpy1415 (Oct 15, 2013)

Awesome hardscape. I look forward to seeing this tank mature.
The salt water tank is lovely. 
The quality of your photographs is fantastic. What camera do you use?


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Grumpy1415 said:


> Awesome hardscape. I look forward to seeing this tank mature.
> The salt water tank is lovely.
> The quality of your photographs is fantastic. What camera do you use?


Thanks a lot!

Right now Im using a slightly older Canon Rebel XTI with just the stock lens. I use a buddies Sony SLT A65 sometimes, waiting to get my hands on it again and do a nice video. 

Heres a video of my old tank I shot with it 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYZFpdoZ_Zc


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## Grumpy1415 (Oct 15, 2013)

Thank you for sharing the camera info and the video. The Sony SLT A65 really provides some nice clarity and color. I like the depth of focus you used and the video editing. It was a beautiful tank.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Grumpy1415 said:


> Thank you for sharing the camera info and the video. The Sony SLT A65 really provides some nice clarity and color. I like the depth of focus you used and the video editing. It was a beautiful tank.


Thanks!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Ordered some rotala indica true ammania sp bonsai, Limno aromatica, Rotala sp green, ludwigia tornado and some didiplis diandra.... should be here in the next few days.

Sp green is the only one I've kept, hoping the rest aren't too difficult. Especially the tornado seeing that it's somewhat rare and expensive.


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

Ember Tetras or Green Neon Tetras would be cool. I have had CPD's in the past and was disappointed with how shy they were. I currently have 12 Ember Tetras and 10 Sundadanio Axelrodi in my 12g Long, they are rad! The contrast between the two different fish is awesome, great coloring on both species.

I also have a degree in Graphic Design and have been working in advertising since '99.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

beedee said:


> Ember Tetras or Green Neon Tetras would be cool. I have had CPD's in the past and was disappointed with how shy they were. I currently have 12 Ember Tetras and 10 Sundadanio Axelrodi in my 12g Long, they are rad! The contrast between the two different fish is awesome, great coloring on both species.
> 
> I also have a degree in Graphic Design and have been working in advertising since '99.


Nice! Still freelancing until I decide where I want to move, or find a job somewhere I can't pass up. Who knows what will happen.

As for the fish, I was thinking green tetra... She had done of them in stock for 2 a piece but shipping is 25$. Starting to think it might be better to just buy cardinals locally and save some money... Trying to convince myself that If I'm going to pay that money ordering online i might as well just wait for the chili rasboras.... 

Ohh what to do, what to do....

In the meantime, I'm pumped for these new pants to get here. They're on their way.

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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Hello!

Plants came in today. Not exactly pumped though... 

most all of the sp green is a collection of nutrient depleted stems that may or may not be able to be saved.. some of it may be due to shipping, but it doesnt look like it. Could be wrong.

The ammania sp bonsai I had to toss out 75% off because it had staghorn or bba on it.. Not sure which one but both of which I wasnt going to risk getting in my tank again (got staghorn like this in my 55 from bad plants) 

The limno aromatica was in decent shape along with the tornado and a bunch of di diandra. The aromatica and the tornado had some bad lower leaf action but after trimming off bottom portions, they were not a complete loss. 

He did threw in some Myrio for free, and of course, it was the best looking of all.. pretty much looked perfect (figures, the one I didnt want). 

This is the second time I've bought plants from this source and I doubt I will again. I'm not one to complain with my hand out, so I havent said anything this time or last... 

Oh well, shi* happens right? 

I'll post pics once the plants turn their little faces up towards the light... happy tanking.


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## Grumpy1415 (Oct 15, 2013)

Sorry about the quality of the plants...what a disappointment. Good luck turning them around.

As for fish, I have glow light tetras and neon tetras in my 12g long. Both a nice looking, schooling fish, but I have to say, the neon tetras just really pop out, even from a distance. Given a do over, I would go with the neons...better yet the cardinal tetras if they were available locally.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Grumpy1415 said:


> Sorry about the quality of the plants...what a disappointment. Good luck turning them around.
> 
> As for fish, I have glow light tetras and neon tetras in my 12g long. Both a nice looking, schooling fish, but I have to say, the neon tetras just really pop out, even from a distance. Given a do over, I would go with the neons...better yet the cardinal tetras if they were available locally.


It happens I guess :smile:

Yeah, Ive been thinking lately and I don't think I want to spend any more money on fish... theyre just going to dirty the tank up. If anything else, I'll probably just get some cardinals from lfs or petco even... might just stick with shrimp and the few fish that I have right now.

I have 3 panda corys, 2 neons, 1 cardinal and a gold face electric blue balloon ram atm... left over from my old 55


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## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

Oh the horror stories, I traded someone at a plant meet and expected the plants to be decently algae free, put them in my tank without checking(what was I thinking?) and battle with hair algae went on for months.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

theericafish said:


> Oh the horror stories, I traded someone at a plant meet and expected the plants to be decently algae free, put them in my tank without checking(what was I thinking?) and battle with hair algae went on for months.


Same exact thing happened to me....I was soo pissed I didnt dip the plant before putting it into my tank. Thats also why I make sure to tell people if I have algae an am selling/giving away plants.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

theericafish said:


> Oh the horror stories, I traded someone at a plant meet and expected the plants to be decently algae free, put them in my tank without checking(what was I thinking?) and battle with hair algae went on for months.





lamiskool said:


> Same exact thing happened to me....I was soo pissed I didnt dip the plant before putting it into my tank. Thats also why I make sure to tell people if I have algae an am selling/giving away plants.



Yeah, I ended up tossing most out but set up a little 6g I have as a plant QT tank basically. spot treated the bonsai with excel in there so we shall see. Also just tossing other trimmings in there instead of buckets (were I let them sit for a week with intention of trading them in until I throw them in the yard)

Anyways, Here's some update pics with the new plants.


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## ConfidentBlue (Aug 27, 2013)

Stunning scape! I love looking at others tanks but I immediately get the urge to break down what I've got and give the hard scape another go haha. 


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Man. That island looks amazing. Have no clue how you guys do tha


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

ConfidentBlue said:


> Stunning scape! I love looking at others tanks but I immediately get the urge to break down what I've got and give the hard scape another go haha.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hahaa. I know how you feel man trust me. We are all our own worst critics... I hate my stuff after like a week of having it.

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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Down_Shift said:


> Man. That island looks amazing. Have no clue how you guys do tha


Haha, thanks man... Will look 100x better to me once the plants grow and I get stuff trimmed and where I want it. 

The only way I got the rock to hang out like that was supporting it with the wood.


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## chocological (Nov 13, 2012)

Looks great! Subscribed.

EDIT:
You 55 journal is also an inspiration for me to really work hard on my 55's scape.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

chocological said:


> Looks great! Subscribed.
> 
> EDIT:
> You 55 journal is also an inspiration for me to really work hard on my 55's scape.


Thanks man! I kinda miss the 55, look forward to getting another 4ft tank in the future... just want a little deeper next time.


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Looks really good! Congrats!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

*Need some opinions!*

So, a few little changes.


















First off, removed the second largest rock.. the one to the left of the big one, to make room for more stem plant development on the top of the "mountain." 

Of the tiny bit of good rotala sp green stems I got in the shipment I cut them down and replanted two little patches. Hopefully this will grow out so I can get these nice green, well trimmed bushes that I can envision. 

Two ideas... Thinking of adding the removed rock to the right side and putting some substrate behind it and putting another little rotala sp green bush over there to balance out the whole scape and give it more of a camyon look instead of the island look... This is still up in the air. I don't dislike it like it is. In this little phone sketch I dont have the rock but you get the idea.










Second idea... extend the substrate along the back wall out further into the sand and have the plants sloping towards the right wall... something like this. 










As of now Im favoring the second idea in terms of less work, haha. But I tihnk both would look good, idk what I plan to do.

Thoughts? Opinions? Constructive criticism?

- James


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

*Stand Idea*

Also, need some thoughts on a stand idea I had... Im tired of having my tanks on separate walls but dont have a nice stand for the planted 20L, just my reef tank. 

Also, Dont want light from each tank spilling into the other.. so I have come up with something like this.

Anybody have any links to any similar builds? Should be super easy to do and will look nice with FW and SW side by side imo.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Firstly, I like the second idea you posted the most.


As for the stand, I have not even made one but I like the design. It seems like it may be easier to have the middle section of the "C" piece to go down to the floor. I think if you used the "C" section for the sides of both stands, it would look the cleanest. However, you could make it modular so if you changed your mind, by making the "A" and "B" sections stand on their own, you could break them up into two stands in the future if you wanted to move the away again.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> Firstly, I like the second idea you posted the most.
> 
> 
> As for the stand, I have not even made one but I like the design. It seems like it may be easier to have the middle section of the "C" piece to go down to the floor. I think if you used the "C" section for the sides of both stands, it would look the cleanest. However, you could make it modular so if you changed your mind, by making the "A" and "B" sections stand on their own, you could break them up into two stands in the future if you wanted to move the away again.



Yeah, I agree with the canopy part looking cleaner if it were built into the stands but I would like to be able to break it down in the future if need be as well. 

Thinking though... I was pondering switching to a 36" quad t5ho fixture I have. This would require me to make the "C" canopy part at least 7-8" wider. I may do this and have the "C" part even wider sitting on the floor with about 7-8" if space on each side of A and B.

Basically, A & B resting inside and under this bigger C part with plenty of space separating C from the stands, They would stand alone from the canopy nicely If given enough space to do so I think. I would still need that middle brace coming down from C to stop light spill to each tank. 

Hope you understand what I am saying, haha... hard to describe this kind of stuff via text like this.


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## Ebi (Jun 29, 2011)

jcgilmore2 said:


> Yeah, I ended up tossing most out but set up a little 6g I have as a plant QT tank basically. spot treated the bonsai with excel in there so we shall see. Also just tossing other trimmings in there instead of buckets (were I let them sit for a week with intention of trading them in until I throw them in the yard)
> 
> Anyways, Here's some update pics with the new plants.


As I was going through your journal, I noticed your ista surface skimmer disappear! Very clever idea making it black. How did you do this? Spray paint?


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Ebi said:


> As I was going through your journal, I noticed your ista surface skimmer disappear! Very clever idea making it black. How did you do this? Spray paint?


Haha yes! Semi gloss rustoleum plastic bonding paint. Nice coats and let it sit for a few days to completely dry.

Looks much better, that thing sure was an eye sore!

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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

So, got some stuff done today.

Started the stand. Gonna be all one long one that holds both tanks side by side. Here's a preview. 










Also... Switched the rock around. It was just annoying me. This happens when you don't plan and sit with your hardscape for a while... But its much better this way... Love the overhangs and crevaces... So do the fish.

Sakura cherries will be here tomorrow










And lastly... I added another reactor. I took a nylon filter sock and cut a tiny hole for the inner tube of the maxmix. The nylon catches a lot of bubbles. My diffusion rates are much better now and flow wasnt depleted as much as I though it might be.










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## Crazy4discus (Jan 30, 2014)

Nice 20l setup!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Thanks!


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## Asu1776 (Mar 5, 2013)

I keep seeing these journals with large tanks and awesome aquascapes. It makes me really want to take the plunge and go for a large rimless. Nice job on the scape man. I like the dark white contrast and the wedge of the driftwood in between the rocks. Just curious, what are you doing/using to keep your water so clear? Purigen?


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Asu1776 said:


> I keep seeing these journals with large tanks and awesome aquascapes. It makes me really want to take the plunge and go for a large rimless. Nice job on the scape man. I like the dark white contrast and the wedge of the driftwood in between the rocks. Just curious, what are you doing/using to keep your water so clear? Purigen?


Thanks man!

I want a larger rimless in the future as well. Plan on having 2 90g or so rimless tanks side by side when I buy s house. 

This is just a 20L.. As for the water, i just have a low bio load and have a ehiem 2217 filter. It provides a lot of filtration. I had originally bought it for a 55g but it does an awesome job on this tank!



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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Stand is coming along nicely. Can't wait to get these tanks on it. The colors of the reef beside the planted tank is gonna pop.

Still a few layers if paint and primer to go

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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

very nice craftsmanship! hehe wish I was more experienced with that kind of stuff.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Thanks! 

haha, its not as hard as it looks. Measure twice cut once, use wood puddy and sand the heck out of it... I kinda just learn as I go lol. had a sculpture class in college that taught me a bit though.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

So... I Finally finished the stand. Got both tanks side by side and I'm loving it so far. Heres some pictures.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

very beautiful, and love the contrast!


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## MB2 (Feb 6, 2007)

Very beautiful tanks. First time I see both tanks displaying side by side. Thank you. Very nice.


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## Asu1776 (Mar 5, 2013)

Wow! That is an awesome setup. Great great update. Do share more pictures when you get a chance!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

lamiskool said:


> very beautiful, and love the contrast!





MB2 said:


> Very beautiful tanks. First time I see both tanks displaying side by side. Thank you. Very nice.





Asu1776 said:


> Wow! That is an awesome setup. Great great update. Do share more pictures when you get a chance!


Thank you all for the kind words! I am happy with the way it turned out... almost exactly as I pictured it. I would like to move the tanks flush beside each other in the center but i know ill spill water on the outside the second I do haha.

I'll get some nice pictures soon. Probably do a nice video soon as well.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

New Video of the tank, not sure how to embed it here... so here's the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0KUux9pim4


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Very nice tanks and video! I watched a few on your channel... awesome job!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Very nice tanks and video! I watched a few on your channel... awesome job!


Thank you! Loving this tank so far.

I got a hold of some nice driftwood that was sent to me as a RAOK from a guy on local facebook group. Amazing piece, making me want to do a scape already. Post pictures soon.


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## kuopan (Feb 5, 2014)

wow amazing setup! love the stand! and the tank of course..


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## Jdiesels (Mar 20, 2013)

Imagine what you could do with a smaller tank 


DBP Member 003


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## BiggScott (Sep 23, 2013)

How does one de-rim a tank? I'd love to give it a go. I have a new 20L from the most recent $1/gallon sale I will be setting up soon.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Jdiesels said:


> Imagine what you could do with a smaller tank
> 
> 
> DBP Member 003


Hahaa, maybe one day Jared.







BiggScott said:


> How does one de-rim a tank? I'd love to give it a go. I have a new 20L from the most recent $1/gallon sale I will be setting up soon.


It's a somewhat tedious process with a few razor blades. I start in the corners and do different parts. Ie - the front piece, then the little top piece, then the inside part. Slowly but surely... It will come.








kuopan said:


> wow amazing setup! love the stand! and the tank of course..


Thank you! Loving the stand so far.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

So.... How about some cell phone pictures. Bored... Take some good ones with the Cannon this weekend.


















































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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Here's a quick FTS


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Added a rock on the right... Should I leave it? Will look better when I get the background plants grown up behind it (sp green)

















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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jcgilmore2 said:


> Added a rock on the right... Should I leave it? Will look better when I get the background plants grown up behind it (sp green)


I think it looks more balanced now IMO. Tank looks great!


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## hazenight (Apr 12, 2013)

looks better with the second rock


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Yeah, agreed. Think I'm gonna remove some sand in that back right corner and plant some stems to balance even further. 

Thank you both!

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## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

This is a very badass scape, one of the more original I have seen. Love how this and the other tank is displayed as well.


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## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

love your scape, like how you used sand on the nonplanted side.


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## chevyguy8893 (Nov 5, 2012)

Both of those are beautiful tanks, nice work! The addition of the rock on the right does look good. 

Seeing the 20 long de-rimmed for the reef tank makes me wish I did that to mine before converting it.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

jmf3460 said:


> love your scape, like how you used sand on the nonplanted side.


Thank you Jacklyn! 

Although I love it as well.. It is a pain to keep the sand free of black substrate though :red_mouth


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

chevyguy8893 said:


> Both of those are beautiful tanks, nice work! The addition of the rock on the right does look good.
> 
> Seeing the 20 long de-rimmed for the reef tank makes me wish I did that to mine before converting it.





DefStatic said:


> This is a very badass scape, one of the more original I have seen. Love how this and the other tank is displayed as well.



Thank you both!

These tanks do look much better with the rim off for sure. Makes them seem much larger imo. 

I'm thinking about buying 2 GlassCages 36 wide 16 tall 12 deep tanks to sit side by side on here. They will fill up the stand. Wish I would have built the stand deeper too, so I could have went with 18" deep tank... Oh well, another excuse for a DIY stand project in the future. 

Starting to like the clean dutch trimming if you cant tell, haha. I got an awesome piece of driftwood just waiting for a rescape in this tank.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jcgilmore2 said:


> Thank you both!
> 
> These tanks do look much better with the rim off for sure. Makes them seem much larger imo.
> 
> ...


You should do a video of removing the rim. I've wanted to do this on mine but nervous about it lol:confused1: I'm pretty sure my 40B would look so much better without it:hihi:


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> You should do a video of removing the rim. I've wanted to do this on mine but nervous about it lol:confused1: I'm pretty sure my 40B would look so much better without it:hihi:


Ive seen a guy do it on a breeder but I don't know if I would do it personally. His math seemed to check out but I would be too nervous haha. He also kept the water a lot lower. Ill see if I can find the link to that tank.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> You should do a video of removing the rim. I've wanted to do this on mine but nervous about it lol:confused1: I'm pretty sure my 40B would look so much better without it:hihi:


Here is his build over on ReefCentral http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2295776


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Little update, plants are starting to fill in nicely... but still not where I want them. Ammania Sp Bonsai still hasnt taken off, but the HM on the left is doing awesome and the rotala sp green just took off as well. Gonna have it well trimmed and dutch-like.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok, little bit better FTS with the canon. I switched out the pink bulb with the other wavepoint I had laying around and the aromatica is turning red almost overnight. You can see in comparison from the picture I took yesterday on my cell phone right up there ^










How about a quick pic of the least enjoyable part of tanking.


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## Calbears (Mar 1, 2014)

Awesome tanks! I really like the look of the reef and planted tanks side by side. Subscribed to this thread.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Calbears said:


> Awesome tanks! I really like the look of the reef and planted tanks side by side. Subscribed to this thread.


Thanks! Plan on switching things up a lot in this tank, so hopefully there will be a lot more to come. 

May get new custom tanks in the near future to fit the stand better. I built each side 37" to accommodate 36" t5ho fixtures and bigger tanks in the future. Probably go with 36x12x16, only around 200 a piece for the rimless on glasscages. Still pondering, haha.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

*Hey, I made AdvanceAquarist*

Woke up today to a random person I was in a FB Aquarium group with asking me If I was just featured on AdvancedAquarist. To my surprise I was. Heres the link. 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/the-best-of-both-worlds


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

In other tank news... Neons werent spawning (was just a little experiment) so I took them out and got 8 trigonostigma espei (possibly harlequins) either way... they act just like the harlequins I used to have and love. Heres a little GIF of my tank and how close they school together.










https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nZBUQ8GSqPg/U2BIYgSNy5I/AAAAAAAASYA/LVyihjr3lp8/w800-h450-no/14+-+1


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Now that I know GIFs work on here. Here is a one from before where you can see just how small the boraras urophthalmoides are... Such cool little micro fish!


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Great tank, I'm a fan of the micro rasboras too, I've got b.brigittae and b.merah.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

exv152 said:


> Great tank, I'm a fan of the micro rasboras too, I've got b.brigittae and b.merah.


Thanks! They are awesome little fish... just wish mine schooled more. Mine were very unhealthy though, only 2 survive now. Most died in the first day. They were supposed to be Chili Rasbora and ended up being boraras urophthalmoides. 

Got them from Bob's Tropical Fish. All but two died.. Emailed about it and he offered me partial store credit. Would have to pay all that money for shipping again for fish I didn't originally want anyway. 

Can't really say I had a great experience with them (BTF that is). Hope others have had better experience. Side note - stay clear of their "blue" berry shrimp.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Took a pic for over on nano-reef from someone asking what was underneath. Here's a quick pic... tried to brighten it a bit under there.

My hidden rimless fluval EDGE serving as a nice clipping tank haha.


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## Tyrone (Nov 22, 2013)

That's too sick bro! Where do you find the time for both set ups!?


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Tyrone said:


> That's too sick bro! Where do you find the time for both set ups!?



Haha, thanks man. 

They started out a bunch of work, but not so much now. The reef pretty much sustains itself. Just gotta top it off once a week. The planted tank is a little work but I just knock it out on Sundays usually... Trim, replant, clean glass with a filter pad, try to get the substrate off the sand, then siphon two 5 gallon buckets and fill back ... about it haha. 

I enjoy the work to an extent though lol


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## ICPjuggla (Mar 17, 2009)

Wow, awesome set up...


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## EwDeg (Feb 4, 2014)

This is insanely awesome! Good job man. Wish my skills were this good.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

ICPjuggla said:


> Wow, awesome set up...










EwDeg said:


> This is insanely awesome! Good job man. Wish my skills were this good.


Haha, thanks a lot!

We're all our own worst critics... Don't beat yourself up lol. I don't think this tank is amazing, just finally have one I'm somewhat happy with... But I've had a lot of tanks lol. Learn something new on each one. I'm finally learning to plan and take things slow.

Thanks though! Means a lot.

Happy tanking.


Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Stuff is starting to grow in nice know. Been trimming a lot, replanting tops, etc... Been trying to maintain a small dutch-like scape... small areas of plants and stark contrasts. We will see how it goes. Rotala sp green is starting to get dense and grow nice now, so I will continue to expand the "bushes" of it around the tank a bit more in clean trimmed areas. Also, starting to trim and attach the riccia to a bit... Going to get some more nice super bright green areas of it around the tank.

Got some new plants from Ebi... Mini Pellia on the wood, Ludwigia Senegalensis and UG. UG took a minute to take hold but I think it has now and its going to start spreading soon. Lud Sen is growing nicely and coloring up, Ill propagate it soon.

Soo... Here ya go.

























Few plant close ups


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Do you ever have algae come up on the older leaves of the Ludwigia Ruben? I had tried some of this but can't seem to keep algae at bay on the older growths.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> Do you ever have algae come up on the older leaves of the Ludwigia Ruben? I had tried some of this but can't seem to keep algae at bay on the older growths.



Not yet but I've had that happen with other plants... I trim and replant almost weekly with it, so might not have the chance to develop it. Perks of having such a short tank I guess haha. It grows pretty fast for me, seems to like RO water more than tap in my experience so far.


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## Asu1776 (Mar 5, 2013)

Every time I check back on this thread, I build up a little more incentive and motivation to set up a reef tank myself. I really like the contrast of the FW planted vs SW reef. I've always wanted to venture into SW but ignorantly told myself that it was more expensive, difficult, and required lots of maintenance. However, you said that the SW tank sustains itself? What's the maintenance like? The reason I ask, is I can feel the labor of love of trimming the plants, cleaning the filter, tubes, pipes, water change, siphoning poop, and wiping algae off the glass in a FW tank, so if the SW is actually better maintenance wise....I might just pull the darn trigger!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Asu1776 said:


> Every time I check back on this thread, I build up a little more incentive and motivation to set up a reef tank myself. I really like the contrast of the FW planted vs SW reef. I've always wanted to venture into SW but ignorantly told myself that it was more expensive, difficult, and required lots of maintenance. However, you said that the SW tank sustains itself? What's the maintenance like? The reason I ask, is I can feel the labor of love of trimming the plants, cleaning the filter, tubes, pipes, water change, siphoning poop, and wiping algae off the glass in a FW tank, so if the SW is actually better maintenance wise....I might just pull the darn trigger!



I'd say I do 3-4x more work on my FW than my SW. But hasn't always been the case (like in the first month or two of the reef) All I do in my SW tank is dump in RO water once a week when it evaporates and vacuum. Vacuum is super easy since its bare bottom... I just cut a 2 liter and stuffed it with filter media and I sit it in the sump and siphon water from the tank into it, which filters out all the poo and debris and returns that water into the sump which goes back to the tank... so no WCs required to do this. Wipe down the glass once a week with the magfloat too. Thats about it.

I call it a budget reef, lol. I got by doing things a lot cheaper than most people do. Cheap skimmer (sca301 - works amazing) got an old used wet/dry and pump for filtration for 25$, cheap tank since its just normal 20L with rim removed, got a steal on the PAR38 at 37$ on ebay and built my other fixture for under 50$. The live rock and coral were the most expensive thing, but perks of a tank this small is you dont need as much. I've never sat down and added it up, but broken down over time it wasnt too bad. You can EASILY spend as much as I did doing a larger FW planted by the time you buy hundreds and hundreds of dollars in substrate, ADA stones and rare plants and mosses.

Not saying SW is cheap, but I didn't go all out and get all this insanely priced stuff like some do. Every tank is different though, just gotta convince yourself to take that leap. 

Words of advice - When you think you have a big enough filter - go bigger ( mines rated for a 125g tank), RO water is an absolute must, get a protein skimmer, get good quality live rock and plenty of it to start out with (do not get dry base rock or you will end up regretting it like my gf did in her tank covered in hair algae) and dont get many fish. 

Good luck if you take the leap! I love both.


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## Asu1776 (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks for the information and advice!!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

*few new pics, new sand.*

So, decided to get rid of the super fine sand... BGA seemed to love it. Now it hasnt been seen in the 4 or so days since I swapped it out. Everything seems to be going great as of now. 

Some shots..


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## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

Tanks still looking awesome. The low substrate and the equipment being hidden but still in the open.. I dig it.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Great tank, like all the pearling on the riccia. I love the rock formation, I know you were mentioning removing it, but I wouldn't. Awesome job!


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## Calbears (Mar 1, 2014)

Amazing


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

theericafish said:


> Tanks still looking awesome. The low substrate and the equipment being hidden but still in the open.. I dig it.



appreciate the kind words. 






exv152 said:


> Great tank, like all the pearling on the riccia. I love the rock formation, I know you were mentioning removing it, but I wouldn't. Awesome job!


I actually just ended up moving at a bit and gained a lot more room for stems. About to post update now






Calbears said:


> Amazing



Thank you! =)

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

So I was toying with the idea of removing all or since of the rocks so I could have more room for plants.. decided not to do that. I moved the big rock out of the wood "pocket" it was sitting in and was able to wedge it in the back more.. opening up the inner part of the wood for stems. =) 

This was a perfect area for my sp green trimmings so I can get a nice Dutch style hedge going on before too long. I'll end up moving the ludwigia senegalensis (spelling) so that the two sp green patches create one long hedge. Anyway... here's some quick cell phone pics.


Here's the full tank shot... continuing to trim riccia and add it to rocks and wood throughout so that I can get some nice green "balls" lol...

You can see how much more dramatically angled the rocks are... something that I like. Once the plants grow back up from their trim this will be a nice dramatic cliff look down to the white "plains". Ug is starting to turn green and spread a bit as well.. along with the hydrocotyle.









Here you can see the rotala sp green area in between the wood... helping me achieve the dutch look even more... I'll get there.



















I plan on eventually removing the diandra from the back left corner and having the two sp green patches connect then fill in the back corner... if that makes sense lol.

Anyway... What you guys think?

Other ideas or plants that might help this look better?

Also toying with the idea of pulling out the limno... it's too yellowish. This might be okay now that I'll have all this sp green now, before there wasn't enough green for me. But any big bushy green stem plants that might look good? 


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## dindin (Mar 4, 2009)

What is your shortest dark green plant in the front left? Is that HM?


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

dindin said:


> What is your shortest dark green plant in the front left? Is that HM?


Marsilea Minuta


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## Joeymozzer (Mar 23, 2014)

Love it


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Man your tank is looking amazing!!! I love the island look. How do you keep the sand that clean!?


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## umarnasir335 (Mar 2, 2014)

I would strongly suggest that you KEEP the limno. aromatica. The yellow from the crowns of the stems provides a very stark contrast to the green from the rotala and marsilea.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

The Trigger said:


> Man your tank is looking amazing!!! I love the island look. How do you keep the sand that clean!?



Haha, thanks man. Its clean in those pics cause I just put it in... Still not as bad as it used to be. I use my gfs hair clip to clean it though. It lets the small sand particles through but picks up the larger eco particles.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

umarnasir335 said:


> I would strongly suggest that you KEEP the limno. aromatica. The yellow from the crowns of the stems provides a very stark contrast to the green from the rotala and marsilea.


I agree, I was thinking the same thing ever since I moved the rock and got all that green in there (sp green). Now its not overwhelming like it was before. Also, changed the lighting a bit so looks even more green. 

Thank you for the advice! Makes my decision easier.

Also, added some more sand (a path) and moved some stuff around a little. Ill get the camera out and take some pics or maybe do a video soon, have the week off work.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

any advice on the limno. aromatica? I have quad t5ho on a 125 (around 90par according to the lighting writeup on here) and dose EI and pressurized co2...it's taking forever to root and it looks pretty roughed up 2 weeks after planting.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> any advice on the limno. aromatica? I have quad t5ho on a 125 (around 90par according to the lighting writeup on here) and dose EI and pressurized co2...it's taking forever to root and it looks pretty roughed up 2 weeks after planting.


hmmm.. Not sure. Is it immersed form or something? Mine takes root right away. It along with limno hipp need to be trimmed and replanted a lot once they get going. The bottoms like to die off.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

jcgilmore2 said:


> hmmm.. Not sure. Is it immersed form or something? Mine takes root right away. It along with limno hipp need to be trimmed and replanted a lot once they get going. The bottoms like to die off.


They were submerged when I got them. I have roots now that are maybe a centimeter in length. May have just shocked it somehow compared to the store I got it from.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> They were submerged when I got them. I have roots now that are maybe a centimeter in length. May have just shocked it somehow compared to the store I got it from.


Yeah, hard to say. Its a pretty easy and fast growing plant once established. Just trim and replant a lot.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Quick vid I made last night of the tanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwkXBZl7-m8&feature=gp-n-y


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## newsushi (Mar 28, 2014)

Do you have a journal anywhere for your saltwater tank? I really like your concept of a matching pair of aquariums!


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Video is very epic man! :hihi: Digging the tanks!
Keep it up!
Joshua


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## greenteam (Feb 8, 2012)

Some clean looking tanks


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

newsushi said:


> Do you have a journal anywhere for your saltwater tank? I really like your concept of a matching pair of aquariums!



Yeah, its over on NanoReef... Probably need to update it a bit more haha. Thank you! Here's the link.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/341795-20-long-rimless-reef-first-reef-tank/


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

greenteam said:


> Some clean looking tanks





pianofish said:


> Video is very epic man! :hihi: Digging the tanks!
> Keep it up!
> Joshua


Thank you both!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Changed up a few things. Rock is still toward the back more, the sp green is filling in that space where it used to be between the rocks. Starting to get a nice line of it across the tank.

Also, raised the lights a bit. This took the rubin out of its "red" zone but I may switch to something else like ludwigia sp red or macrandra. Or may just wait till the Ludwigia Senegalensis grows out more, but I want a deeper red than that.











Took out the diandra in the back left corner. Going to fill this in with more sp green when it grows out a bit more. So Ill have it start in the corner then diverge towards the front glass and towards the rocks.










Also, added more sand. Made a little "Hidden Trail" that goes into the crevasse and towards the back on the tank.








Other than that things are going pretty well. I still getting a bit of BGA on the sand and glass here and there. I do plenty of WCs. I noticed it in the new growth of the limno when I got it (along with every other algae known to man on those plants) Not sure if thats why Im seeing it now, but never had seen this algae before in my tanks. Ill just keep up with removal and WCs and hope it goes away? Good news is GSA is gone since I lowered my photoperiod and raised my lights.

Anyway, happy tanking.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Little update. Was gone for 10 days... Came back and the sand and some glass was covered in some blue green algae. Did a deep clean today. See what happens.

Plants were also pretty nutrient deprived. Look pale. Hopefully they bounce back quick

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Are you against API E.M. Erythromycin? What's your total photoperiod now since you shortened it recently?


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Tossed in some driftwood I had laying around... Didn't change any Plants or anything, just kind got bored. Might do full rescape at some point. Here's some pictures





































Here's what it looked like 3 days ago


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I like it better with the driftwood. I feel it adds more visual. Interest to the scape.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

yeep love the new scape! any chance you can switch the dark green carpet plant that looks like glosso with the one to its right? I think the height difference between the plants looks weird


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

I know how it feels to get bored with a landscape and wanting to change it. That definitely looks great. That does look good though; full rescapes are always nice, but the amount of work to rescape EVERYTHING, is so tedious.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

lamiskool said:


> yeep love the new scape! any chance you can switch the dark green carpet plant that looks like glosso with the one to its right? I think the height difference between the plants looks weird


I agree! Neither of these plants were intended for that location. It was all dwarf baby tears, then added the marsilea then removed the dbt and added the riccia. It be too big of a hassle to replant the marsilea at this point, but I think I'm going to do a full blown rescape soon.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

philipraposo1982 said:


> I like it better with the driftwood. I feel it adds more visual. Interest to the scape.


Thank you Philip! I'll have to agree, just wish I could have had more space to work with the hard scape (left all pants where they were)


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

mistuhmarc said:


> I know how it feels to get bored with a landscape and wanting to change it. That definitely looks great. That does look good though; full rescapes are always nice, but the amount of work to rescape EVERYTHING, is so tedious.


Very tedious indeed! I think I'll break down and do it before too long. I want the wood on the left and more open area to the right


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

jcgilmore2 said:


> Very tedious indeed! I think I'll break down and do it before too long. I want the wood on the left and more open area to the right


I actually like the rocks and wood on the right, mostly just because when looking at both tanks next to each other it makes it look like they are the same "montain" and it transitions form one tank to the other perfectly


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

WOW beautiful tank!


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## jbig (Jul 13, 2012)

This is a truly beautiful setup!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Thank you guys! I'm moving in September so its going to go through a big rescape at that point. Looking forward to it. I'm currently trying to sell my reef tank, which sucks to have to do.


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## umarnasir335 (Mar 2, 2014)

What's the reason for selling the reef? Upkeep and maintenance?

Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Tapatalk 2


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

umarnasir335 said:


> What's the reason for selling the reef? Upkeep and maintenance?
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Tapatalk 2


No, planted is by far way more work. I don't do anything to the reef but clean the glass and top it off once every week or two weeks. I'm moving about 15hrs and just be a lot of work to take it. Also won't have room for the big stand, so have to pick one tank to take and planted made the cut. I'll get back into sw when I buy a house down the road


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Ah sry to hear that the sw setup is going but glad ur at least keeping the planted tank. I loved seeing em next to each other! Gl with the move!


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

So, changed a few things around again. Still don't feel like doing a full rescape yet... Replanting is a pain, so had to make due with the space I could easily create. Here's some pics.


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

I definitely like the renewed look with the added driftwood. Adds a different feel to the tank. Might just be me though, but I think you should remove the limnophila aromatica (I think that's the plant?) above the large piece of seiryu stone. It seems to take away from the driftwood. Might just be me though.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

mistuhmarc said:


> I definitely like the renewed look with the added driftwood. Adds a different feel to the tank. Might just be me though, but I think you should remove the limnophila aromatica (I think that's the plant?) above the large piece of seiryu stone. It seems to take away from the driftwood. Might just be me though.



Yeah, I thought about just tossing it out. The thing is I am "re-scaping" without moving plants, so its far from where I would put things from a fresh start. Ill break down one day and do it, there are too many things in the wrong place for me right now. But oh well, just gotta find the desire lol


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

this looks so 'BAWLLERRR!!!' Are you joking? Leave it lol.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Well, got bored and did some things... Of course I didn't give myself and time to ponder hardscape as usual lol... So I went with the first position I had the rocks in. Wish I would have done it a little different but oh well. There's always next time, haha. Going to start dosing heavy again so the stems should come back strong. Might like it better once they grow in, especially the limno aromatica on the left and the Ruben.


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Gonna add some moss or something to the wood, too bare right now for me. The one mini pellia piece isn't enough lol


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> this looks so 'BAWLLERRR!!!' Are you joking? Leave it lol.


Thanks man! Too late though haha... I'm impulsive


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

That didn't last long. Got bored today


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## jcgilmore2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Welp... Long move ahead, tank is currently sitting empty of life. The reef rank is still up and running and I will be taking it to Florida with me and not the FW. Traded in all my plants, shrimp colony and a couple light fixtures for coral. Waiting to take a guy my canister filter when we both get off work this weekend so his tank doesnt have to go through much of a cycle. 

I'll def be back in the hi-tech planted game in the future... just have to get someone and settled in more. Too much work at the moment.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

darn sorry to hear, really loved your fw setup! Gl and see ya soon!


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## Tyrone (Nov 22, 2013)

I like how you get bored a lot! Lol 
Either way all the scapes and re-scapes all look pleasing to the eye! 
What's next!?


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## Tyrone (Nov 22, 2013)

Oops didn't see your last post! 

But still can't wait to see what's next!


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## SomethingFishy16 (Apr 1, 2016)

How did you remove your rim? 

Also nice lambchop rasboras.


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