# Emersed Plant Filter--56K Warning!



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

I've been thinking more and more for sometime now about setting up an Emersed Plant Filter--So I finally did! :thumbsup: 

As You can see in the pix below, I chose Peace Lillies. They are basically very low light bog plants which fit in well with the low light nature of my A. javanicus' setup. The low light nature isn't just in the Tanks--its in the room also. They should receive plenty of light through the cracked blind--without flooding the room and/or tanks with light. My only question at this point is the regular aquarium gravel that I used in the pots with the plants. If it seems to be a problem I will switch it out with AS, Flourite or something more plant "Compatible".

The water is pumped up from my current aquatic plant filter into the emersed plant filter and then drains back into the APF. I just tested nitrates and they showed about 10ppm. I will test them again in about a week to see what happens.


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

very cool, but do you have a way to completely drain the reservoir so that the plants roots aren't completely submerged all the time? plant growth will be much healthier, and they will use more nutrients. or, you could put an air stone in the reservoir to aerate the water and keep things fresher, it will help A LOT.

also, maybe use some hornwort or java moss in the filter as well... something that will grow really fast without roots...

looks cool, let us know what happens!


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hi Aquanut,

Honestly, I don't know much about hydroponics, so: Anybody have a Good Link handy that will give me the basics?  

The base of the plants are about 2" above the water line and there is about 1 1/2" of roots submerged in the water. I don't know if that is Good or not, but that's how its currently setup. I can very easily lower the water level probably 1", but right now I'm not sure what to do. Beyond that, about the only thing I could do is put the pots on some bricks/rocks and put the pump on a timer. An airstone would not be a problem.

Best I can tell the reservoir adds ~8g to the overall system and setup as is the pump seems to be pumping about 1gpm. So, that's 60gph running through the plant filter.

Guess its time to start doing a little hydroponic research! Links Anybody? :thumbsup:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Looks good Naja. Hydroponic setups can be done both ways, with constant water levels, or Ebb/Flow type systems. Some plants (cacti, orchids come to mind) wouldn't like constant water exposure, but since you are dealing with bog plants, I don't see a big problem leaving their roots dangling in water all the time.

Another plant you should try is Pothos (Epipremnum aureum, Scindapsus pictus etc) which looks good, grows fast and is very undemanding as well. Easy to propagate, just cut the long vines into pieces and put into water.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hey Wasserpest,

Thanx for the info. Currently there is 1 1/2-2" of roots that are not in the water and about 1 1/2" of roots in the water. With the aquarium gravel for media there should be little to no upward osmosis. So, my question would be: Should I leave it the way it is, or drop the water level down ~1"?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

The EFT hydroponic designs we made used simple whiteplastic gutters that are 6" wide and similar, but more narrow and can simply sit on the back lip on the tank behind the lights.

You drill holes into the top for the plants(these can be potted or fill the entire thing with the clay balls and plant wherever), add a powerhead or cansiter outflow and drains back into the tank.

It can act like a wet/dry filter with spray bar or drip or a flow through, your choice there.

You glue some plastic lips to make sure the gutter is stable and secure on the back and you can make a simple hanger if you do not want it on the top of the tank so it hangs above the back more.

If you want to use a sump design, adding some egg crate to keep the pots in place can help or use black plastic ties etc and deeper pots(so the balls and plants do not move around due to water level changes in the sump, taller is better)

A small 15w under the counter light is all that's needed for a 1x2ft area for these plants.

While these plants will grow with very little light, adding more than this etc, will help a lot. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Naja002 said:


> So, my question would be: Should I leave it the way it is, or drop the water level down ~1"?


For plants like your peace lilies, it probably doesn't matter. If the pots are pretty well rooted, I would drop it down a bit. If you just potted them up, I'd leave the water at the current level.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Well, I just took them out of their soil and put them in these pots w/ the Aquarium gravel today. But they were pretty root bound in their original pots and I didn't trim any of the roots--just left them the way they were.

So, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Probably leave it the way it is and just keep an eye on the plants for a few days---plus add an air stone. :thumbsup:


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

Naja002 said:


> Hi Aquanut,
> 
> Honestly, I don't know much about hydroponics, so: Anybody have a Good Link handy that will give me the basics?
> 
> ...


your setup looks like it will work without a doubt. i was mentioning that MOST plants grown hydroponically will benefit from having thier roots exposed to air for short durations, including plants generally considered to be "bog plants". the easiest way to pull this off (and most likely the least effective method) after looking at your setup would be to aerate the reservoir via an air pump. A better way would be to completely empty the reservoir periodically, maybe 6 times a day for ~5 minutes, if it were possible. 

i was also suggesting to put a plant into the reservoir that will add oxygen back into the water like a moss, or a rootless floater, that will also tolerate the periodic drying should you choose to go that route.

as far as links are concerned, you probably have more understanding of plant needs than your average hydrogardener. planted tank keeping is about 100x harder than growing plants hydroponically.

the only problem i can see would be if the filter plants began to die, your water quality is gonna take a dive, get smelly, and screw with everything else. so you have to be committed to keeping them alive.

here is a runon sentence which WAY over simplifies hydroponics, however will serve you well - keep the roots wet, pH near neutral (5.5-8 would be fine), and keep oxygen around the roots as best you can and you will see root growth developing at alarming rates (which is good).

good luck! and look into aeration.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hey Aquanut,

Thanx for the info! I was adding 2 airstones as You were posting I would guess. I lowered the water--it went down about 3/4", so now I am going to watch the plants and go from there. If worst comes to worst--I have another tub identical to this one, so I will just do the drainage differently and add a timer.

Thanx for the Heads-ups everybody! :thumbsup:


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Simple enough fix:

The pump that pumps up to the EPF creates a reverse siphon when turned off. It drains all except maybe a quart of water before the siphon breaks. I have a 4on/4off 7-days/wk timer, so I just set the pump to go off for 20 mins every 6 hrs. Takes 2.5 mins to drain past the pot bottoms and about 5 to fill up to them, so they will get 20-22 mins of air every 6 hrs--plus the dual airstones running 24/7.

I also have the timer set to coincide with the timer/pump for the auto drain cycle of the Auto WC System, so now I can drain an extra 6-7g from the system too.



:thumbsup:


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

sounds like you are moving in the right direction... just keep an eye on the plants for the first few months. not too dry, not too wet.


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## typically (Dec 29, 2006)

this is pretty sweet once i finish the basement i might try to set something like this up. grow tomatoes, and cucumbers and other plants all year round!


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

typically said:


> this is pretty sweet once i finish the basement i might try to set something like this up. grow tomatoes, and cucumbers and other plants all year round!


This is what I hate about the internet: I do A which leads me into B which requires research and causes me to stumble across C which leads to new, more and exciting projects. Enter: Upside Down Tomatoes!

They may not be anything new to many of you, but they are new to me and something, Yes, that I am going to have to try. :biggrin: Guess I am just being controlled by novelty in my old age--but it makes life Fun! roud: How people think this stuff up--I'll never know.....:icon_eek: 

Sadly, for me--now is the perfect time: I think we've just had our last frost for the year.......more projects......I'm gunna die of exhaustion, and don't forget poverty. :tongue:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I just converted an old 34 gallon tank to grow strawberries (not hydroponic-ally... just a bit off the ground to keep snails and botrytis off my berries). Wife is still shaking her head. :icon_roll


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## awesomecoolstien (Apr 13, 2007)

Naja002 said:


> This is what I hate about the internet: I do A which leads me into B which requires research and causes me to stumble across C which leads to new, more and exciting projects. Enter: Upside Down Tomatoes!


Hahaha the internet's great, I just started my first upside down tomatoes this year,  


I can't wait to see how this emersed filter works out. as for the aquarium gravel I think it is great, I would think you will want the substrate completely inert so the plants pull the maximum amount of nutrients out of the water, if they are pulling their nutrients out of the soil your water quality isn't benefiting.


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## pittiepride (Feb 13, 2007)

A little off topic, but I heard that pothos plants (is it the same as philodendron?) have toxic sap and that you must be careful to never cut the roots that are exposed to the tank water. Anybody know anything about this? I would love to grow philo's in my tank.

kara


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Pothos (Epipremnum/Scindapsus) is related to Philodendrons which contain oxalic acid/calcium oxalate which is poisonous if you eat a lot of them. Not sure how dangerous this is going to be for aquatic inhabitants...

FWIW, I used Monstera deliciosa roots as a plant filter in an aquarium years ago. That plant is considered somewhat poisonous. The roots took over a big part of the tank, making it look like some mangrove setup. Don't remember if it was causing any problems (I was a kiddo then) besides when removing it the entire substrate came out along with it.


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## vidiots (Jun 17, 2006)

typically said:


> this is pretty sweet once i finish the basement i might try to set something like this up. grow tomatoes, and cucumbers and other plants all year round!


I've been growing chives on top of my plant tank, now I have fresh chives year round for my baked potatos. I've been growing them all winter. I just have them in a pot sitting on top of my tank below the hanging light fixture. I don't circulate the water thru the pot, just scoop some out of the tank with a cup and water them while I feed the fish.

This thread is giving me even more ideas for future projects!


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Just a quick pic comparison update:

Pic 1 from Last Week, then Pic 2 from Today:


















Plants still look good. Can't really tell if there has been much growth--but they are not declining.

What's everybody think?


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

How effective is this filter? And its only biological isn't it. Does it contribute to any murkiness in your aquarium water?


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## Johnnnn_h (Apr 14, 2007)

What will work are drip emitters, the emitters come in different flow rateings, I think gal per hour??? from .5 to about 4 or 5, and can be run off of a powerhead. Time them on for 15 min, off 15 or 30 min, need time to let air get in there. As far as a medium, Flourite might work on a bog plant, annything else will need a lighter and larger medium, the roots need to breath,and with more off time,,, try a google search.


And hey pretty neet, and Looks great!


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

sandiegoryu said:


> How effective is this filter? And its only biological isn't it. Does it contribute to any murkiness in your aquarium water?


Hi San,

I don't know yet--its only been a week. I assume the plants are still acclimating to their new setup. There's no soil in the pots to cause murkiness. Just plain ol' aquarium gravel. I may switch it out to ADA AS, but I am going to wait a while to see how well this works. There is _Some_ new growth and the plants are not declining at all. So, I figure after they settle in things should get better. Plus its been a mix of Cloudy and Sunny over the last week. Low light is one of the reasons I chose the Peace Lilies. 



Johnnnn_h said:


> What will work are drip emitters, the emitters come in different flow rateings, I think gal per hour??? from .5 to about 4 or 5, and can be run off of a powerhead. Time them on for 15 min off 15 min, need time to let air get in there. As far as a medium, Flourite might work on a bog plant, annything else will need a lighter and larger medium, or try a google search.
> 
> 
> And hey pretty neet, and Looks great!


Hi John,

Thanx! I have drip emitters and have considered going that route--and I may in the future, but right now I am going to check things out the way they are. The water level Looks higher than it actually was for the pix and I have since lowered it another 3/4". The bottom of the plants are up toward the very top of the pots. The roots extent to the bottom, and only ~1" or so is actually in the water. The rest is exposed to air and there are 2 airstones in the reservoir running 24/7. The only timer that I currently have available only offers 4on/4off settings, so right now its off and drained for about 20 mins/6hrs. Everything seems to be doing OK so far. There are plenty of roots above the "Full" water-line. roud: 

As stated above--I'm going to leave things how they are for now. The pump is currently pumping through 3/8"ID tubing with 42" of head and through 3 elbows, so I don't think there are any actual "Powerheads" that can cover that kind of resistance. With the Aquarium Gravel, the roots above the water-line have access to 02 24/7 and the roots below when its drained. Again--they're only an 1" or so in the water.

The Nitrates do seemed to have dropped by about 5ppm, but with these hobbiest test kits--who knows? roud:


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## Mori (Jul 23, 2003)

At least it's pretty! Now I'm thinking...hmm...I can grow house plants just fine...

(My apple snail (_P. canaliculata_) once ate a big chunk of pothos. She was fine. But it might have been a pleco. Probably the snail. Maybe the cat. But nothing really mows through a leaf like a snail. Anyway, nobody was harmed.)


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Its been just over a yr, so here's an update pic on this emersed plant filter:










This setup is pretty much "Auto" these days--all I do is feed the plants and feeder fish, and I haven't been doing a real good job at that. I've "Trimmed" this thing 3-4 times already, but haven't done so in a few months--it definitely needs a trim now.

I don't know what the Nand P are right now. I switched back tap hard tap water in ~Sept. Comes out of the faucet at ~300ppm. TDS just read 380ppm--that's an "over-the-long-haul" reading. Means my aquarium water is 80-100ppm over the tap. I don't think that's bad at all. If I did a better job of keeping up with adding K and micros--I assume--it would be a bit lower. Yeah, been slacking quite a bit..... Also, I've done away with the aquatic plant filter, so the few plants in the main tanks and the emersed plant filter are the only plants in the setup.

For the Emersed Plant filter part--Its a very low light setup. Its basically a dark room with the 15 watt CF and indirect sunlight through that part of the blind. The lilies like it. The bulk of light that you are seeing is from the fill flash of the camera....


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Haha, looks like you need a larger Tupperware. If you are interested on trying other plants for your veg filter water lettuce is amazing. The plant is like a sponge, only problem you might find is that it shoots off too many runners. Aside from that pothos is a great vine that you can do the same thing you have done with your peace lilies.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hi Archerofthemoon,

The tupperware is ~3ft long. Not sure if the scale is off in that pic. Its an under-the-bed storage tub. I'm actually thinking of picking up 2-3 10-12" pots and consolidating the plants into those. I have some that are in use, but I could take some measurements on them.

Water lettuce requires way too much light for this setup. The room is pretty dark during the day. Plus they are more what I consider a "pond plant". If I wanted to go that route--I'd just grow Duckweed! :tongue: I would like to add some pothos, but--being a vine--the downward growth wouldn't work real well....:thumbsup: 

Anyway, I'm going to see about doing some testing here in a bit. See where my N and P are mainly. I haven't tested them in months. The overall setup is 110-120g. I do get a precipitation cloud when I add micros and extra Fe (10ml each ~1x/wk). Little doubt that I should be dosing those 2x/wk, but that would require thought, effort and just all that kind of stuff...... :tongue: So I expect N and P to be fairly high, maybe not.....we'll see.....:thumbsup:


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I find your setup/experiment to be very ineresting, but I am not totally sure what the point or goal is. Are you using the plant filter to suck up excess nutrients (mainly)?


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

i took a class in college dedicated to phyto-remediation, and, like biscuitslayer mentioned, this is probably the most effective way to take nutrients (and potential pollutants, but lets hope you don't have heavy metals, etc. in your aquarium/tap water) out of your water column. I've experimented with a variety of hydroponic and aeroponic setups over the years ( i grow some mean veggies), and your design is very similar to one of my favorites (i also like using long lengths of pvc with drilled out spots for baskets, two buckets and a pump - you can tilt the pvc a bit so the water will drain by itself into another reservoir to be reused, and the wicking method - super no fuss); you aren't looking for explosive plant growth, and your setup (obviously) works pretty well at limiting plant growth while still maintaining vibrant, healthy plants. My goal was to grow massive plants with massive, delicious fruits, and I found that a combination of aeration via individual spray nozzles forcing water over the roots and a TDS meter were the key to success. Hydroponic/aeroponic systems are almost as much fun to setup as aquariums, and the results are delicious! Nice looking setup, and enjoyable thread...

Just FYI, phytoremediation is extremely interesting (at least to me); you can even use plants to hyperaccumulate uranium now, along with zinc, cadmium, and countless others...


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Yep, that is/was the main idea--a filter. I just did an N and P test:

N: 20-40ppm
P: 2-3ppm

Of course, its hard to read the colors, but with some experience over time the numbers above are my best guess. Actually I am quite happy with those numbers. If I did a better job of dosing K and micros--those numbers would come down some more. Maybe I'll hook my perstaltic pumps back up.

Keep in mind--this setup is auto. Those numbers are the result of not doing anything other than feeding the plants and fish, and cleaning the filters every 2-3 months or so..... Main tank A is basically plant-free. Main tank B (20L) is full of crypts.

I just cleaned the Hydor 5 (x4) sponge prefilters last week. I need to change the charcoal filter for the incoming water. Overall, I don't do much of anything for months at a time. So, Yeah, I'm happy with those numbers. I could decrease them some by simply increasing the length of the drain cycle on the daily auto WC.

Back to the emersed plant filter: Its nothing new. Its been done by others and was done long before I ever showed up on the scene. But 1) I wanted to check it out for myself on my setup. 2) I've done the "Aquatic Plant Filter" and ran one for a long time along with this emersed plant filter. I wanted something without all of the "Aquatic" labor and headaches. These plants don't get algae. They don't just suddenly die or start going downhill, etc, etc, etc. The reason that I went with the peace lilies is because they love very low light. Its a low light setup and part of that is being in a low light room. As you can see in the picture--the lilies are all leaning toward the light--but they are flowering also! If your peace lilies don't flower--its oftentimes because there's too much light. So, they are happy enough and fit my particular needs/setup/situation--Beautifully! And they are doing their job--filtering.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

ColeMan said:


> i took a class in college dedicated to phyto-remediation, and, like biscuitslayer mentioned, this is probably the most effective way to take nutrients (and potential pollutants, but lets hope you don't have heavy metals, etc. in your aquarium/tap water) out of your water column. I've experimented with a variety of hydroponic and aeroponic setups over the years ( i grow some mean veggies), and your design is very similar to one of my favorites (i also like using long lengths of pvc with drilled out spots for baskets, two buckets and a pump - you can tilt the pvc a bit so the water will drain by itself into another reservoir to be reused, and the wicking method - super no fuss); you aren't looking for explosive plant growth, and your setup (obviously) works pretty well at limiting plant growth while still maintaining vibrant, healthy plants. My goal was to grow massive plants with massive, delicious fruits, and I found that a combination of aeration via individual spray nozzles forcing water over the roots and a TDS meter were the key to success. Hydroponic/aeroponic systems are almost as much fun to setup as aquariums, and the results are delicious! Nice looking setup, and enjoyable thread...


Right--You got it. I'm not looking to get "maximum" growth out of these plants. If they grow enough that I have to add N and/or P to the system in order to keep them healthy--then I just shot myself in the foot! More growth=more work for me! Adding the N and/or P, plus trimming the plants, etc, etc, etc. Why? I just want to keep the N and P at reasonable levels over the long haul--in order to make the system more "maintenance-free"! Its spelled: "L-A-Z-Y-!" :thumbsup: :tongue:

Yes, I do have to get up and do somethings--but its not often. The system does a pretty good job of taking care of itself. That's my goal: I get to enjoy the setup, accomplish my goals (maintaining these snakes long-term) with the least amount of time and effort from me! Bingo! :thumbsup:


*Edit:* As an added thought on this system, I no longer inject C02 because the plants get it from the air. I do add ~30ml/wk of Excel for the crypts though.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Very interesting set up. Do happen to have a picture of everything (tank and all)?


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Follow this link:

Acrochordus javanicus setup

Its kind of a hodge-podge of pictures over time, but it will give you a decent idea. I'm not injecting C02 or 02 any more. Peristaltic pumps are not hooked up. Back to tap water. Main tank B is not shown, nor has it been incorporated into the sump in those pix. *BUT* it should still give you a decent idea of whats going on.....:thumbsup:


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## hamstermann (May 10, 2007)

Naja002 said:


> I'm not injecting C02 or 02 any more.


Not even for they crypts in your main tank that aren't emersed? I know most crypts are slow growers and that completely submerged slow growers can deteriorate pretty fast. The CO2 in the air is really enough for them as well? 

I'm pretty surprised by that. I'm not sure I can get away with it in the one I'm planning. I want a nice lawn with an Amazon sword in the middle of the tank. Do you think if I inject CO2 into the main 55 gal submerged tank that it will work? or will it all dissipate off when the water is pumped into the emersed part? 

Also, how are you hiding your water pump?


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

hamstermann said:


> Not even for they crypts in your main tank that aren't emersed? I know most crypts are slow growers and that completely submerged slow growers can deteriorate pretty fast. The CO2 in the air is really enough for them as well?
> 
> I'm pretty surprised by that. I'm not sure I can get away with it in the one I'm planning. I want a nice lawn with an Amazon sword in the middle of the tank. Do you think if I inject CO2 into the main 55 gal submerged tank that it will work? or will it all dissipate off when the water is pumped into the emersed part?


C02 need is based upon the amount of light. This setup has always been relatively low light....whether it was 5 containers or now just 3.

What benefit you receive from injecting C02, again, is based upon the amount of light that you have on the setup. How much dissipation depends upon how you have things plumbed.

In my situation the water pump is submerged and pumps water up to the plant filter. That water is pumped in/released under water...so there is no disturbance and no great loss of C02.




hamstermann said:


> Also, how are you hiding your water pump?


I'm not really hiding it. It's currently just stuck to the black background of the tank. It's semi-hidden by a hidebox and a rock used for weight....roud: When it pumped up from the aquatic plant filter it was basically hidden by the plants.


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