# Alternatives to seiryu stones



## Colorful

Anyone know any good alternatives to seiryu stones? I have seiryu stones in my empty 10 gal tank, and it raises the ph to 9.0 . So, now I'm looking for some inert stones that look similar to seiryu stones. Anyone have any? :help:


----------



## cookymonster760

big lava rocks they can be intricate like seiryu and the plus is they are inert


----------



## Colorful

cookymonster760 said:


> big lava rocks they can be intricate like seiryu and the plus is they are inert


Are they available at home depots or lowest? Or would i have to check my local landscaping supply store?


----------



## shrimpNewbie

It raised your ph to 9?


----------



## shrimpNewbie

Is your water liquid rock to begin with?


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi shrimpNewbie,

From what I understand the true Seiryu Stones from the Seiryu region of Japan have not been exported for years. The vast majority of the 'Seiryu Stones' we see being sold on the forums today are actually 'Ying Stones' from the SE area of China. Ying stone is limestone with calcite deposits similar to the 'lace rock' limestone we see from Texas. Of course limestone will increase the hardness and PH of my water, especially if I neglect my water changes.

Ying Stone









Ying Stone if 45 gallon (tall)


----------



## FenderOffset238

I find it easier to just go to my local streams and collect interesting rocks of choice. I just match them according to type. Plus all the stones are from the same region so I find it easier to get that "natural look." Plus its nice to take a walk by water sources, great place for tank inspiration!

I just throw um in a bucket for a few days and make sure they dont alter parameters. As well as give um' a good boil.

-John


----------



## Colorful

shrimpNewbie said:


> Is your water liquid rock to begin with?


The ph of my tap water is 8.0, but usually I just use 75% RO water, and 25% tap water for water changes.



FenderOffset238 said:


> I find it easier to just go to my local streams and collect interesting rocks of choice. I just match them according to type. Plus all the stones are from the same region so I find it easier to get that "natural look." Plus its nice to take a walk by water sources, great place for tank inspiration!
> 
> I just throw um in a bucket for a few days and make sure they dont alter parameters. As well as give um' a good boil.
> 
> -John


Thanks for the advice. I think I'll go down to the regional park today, and look for some rocks :bounce:.


----------



## exv152

Colorful said:


> Anyone know any good alternatives to seiryu stones? I have seiryu stones in my empty 10 gal tank, and it raises the ph to 9.0 . So, now I'm looking for some inert stones that look similar to seiryu stones. Anyone have any? :help:


AFA probably has some in San Fran, but I guess that's like a 7 hour drive for you. They have Ryuoh, pa hai and some others that look similar.


----------



## xmas_one

Has anyone tried clear coating seiryu?


----------



## Colorful

exv152 said:


> AFA probably has some in San Fran, but I guess that's like a 7 hour drive for you. They have Ryuoh, pa hai and some others that look similar.


Actually, i'm going their next week for vacation. Maybe i'll stop by and check it out. Thanks :icon_bigg.


----------



## cookymonster760

about the lava rocks i think you will have to go to a local store since from what i have seen lowes and home depot only carry bags of crushed lava also make sure to ask for black lava rock since the red is really bright


----------



## Colorful

xmas_one said:


> Has anyone tried clear coating seiryu?


Would that make them inert? If it would, I would love to try to clear coat some stones.



cookymonster760 said:


> about the lava rocks i think you will have to go to a local store since from what i have seen lowes and home depot only carry bags of crushed lava also make sure to ask for black lava rock since the red is really bright


Do you recommend any nearby stores for black lava rock?


----------



## shrimpNewbie

If you seAl the rocks they would be inert


----------



## Colorful

shrimpNewbie said:


> If you seAl the rocks they would be inert


How would you go about doing that? Any specific products?


----------



## shrimpNewbie

I don't remember the name but a lot of people that build plywood tanks use it to seal the wood


----------



## DogFish

Sealing the rocks would pretty much kill the natural effect, I think you are after.


----------



## Algae Beater

An alternative is using ultramafic granite or other hard, inert stones. CA has its history of volcanic activity. If you can spend the time on a trip to the countryside and look at a geological map you'll likely be rewarded

come to Vancouver, I'll show you the best spots


----------



## Colorful

Algae Beater said:


> An alternative is using ultramafic granite or other hard, inert stones. CA has its history of volcanic activity. If you can spend the time on a trip to the countryside and look at a geological map you'll likely be rewarded
> 
> come to Vancouver, I'll show you the best spots


Haha thanks for the offer . But, I don't think i'm going to Vancouver anytime soon. I was considering using natural wood charcoal for Smart and Final. Would that work?


----------



## shrimpNewbie

Im not sure its safe I say try it in a tank with minnows and yuppies for about 5 weeks and document everything


----------



## Colorful

Will do! I'll report the results in a a month.


----------



## Colorful

Also, if i were to put fertilizers in the tank with the charcoal, would it absorb he ferts.


----------



## Pearl2011

I got my rocks from a friend from the river behind her house, I want there but she the perfect rocks.
I dont know, but would boiling make them inert? Then again air pockets can make them explode . . .
As for the charcoal, I didnt know ferts could be absorbed :icon_redf would regular wood do that to?


----------



## Diana

Activated carbon has a good affinity for more complex molecules, so chelated ferts are likely to be removed from the water. The simple ferts (KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 and most traces) are not removed from the water in amounts great enough to be a problem. 
Driftwood, roots of trees and similar materials has no noticeable effect on fertilizers. These materials may release tannins, and this can lower the pH in the tank. This might affect fertilizer availability. 

Boiling rocks does nothing about their chemistry. If it is a limestone rock when you put it in the pot it will be a limestone rock when you take it out. 
Boiling can help if the rock came from a wet location (lake, river) and you suspect it carries diseases or parasites. Chlorine bleach cleans these rocks of diseases and parasites, too. (Then rinse and soak with a double dose of dechlor. Air drying will also allow chlorine to evaporate)


----------



## Diana

To find rocks locally look for stores that sell to landscapers, masons and similar professions. Look for:
Rock, Masonry, Soils, Brick, Landscape and similar terms. 
Most of these stores will sell by the truckload or by the bag. 

Take a few ziplocks and a sharpie pen. 
Take a sample of whatever you are interested in and label the baggie. 
Test it at home.


----------



## Colorful

Diana said:


> To find rocks locally look for stores that sell to landscapers, masons and similar professions. Look for:
> Rock, Masonry, Soils, Brick, Landscape and similar terms.
> Most of these stores will sell by the truckload or by the bag.
> 
> Take a few ziplocks and a sharpie pen.
> Take a sample of whatever you are interested in and label the baggie.
> Test it at home.


Do you know of any pure black sharp rocks? Im trying to find some for my aquascape but not luck.


----------



## [email protected]

Colorful said:


> Do you know of any pure black sharp rocks? Im trying to find some for my aquascape but not luck.


Obsidian is usually black and plenty sharp. It can be flaked for scalpel blades.
The problem would be fish darting in and coming out filleted. 

I like the look of odd chunks of obsidian. I'd not try to make layers of flaked pieces.


----------



## Colorful

[email protected] said:


> Obsidian is usually black and plenty sharp. It can be flaked for scalpel blades.
> The problem would be fish darting in and coming out filleted.
> 
> I like the look of odd chunks of obsidian. I'd not try to make layers of flaked pieces.


I like the look of obsidian but i have no clue where to buy it. 

I like the black rocks in this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=185716

What kind is it? I tried contacting the seller, but he hasn't pm'd me back yet.


----------



## Diana

Slate is dark grey to black, and looks black under water. I often see it in stores around here (Northern CA). Slate like material is also available in other colors, other rocks. If you like these, get a sample for testing, not all are really slate. The word slate is just being used for a very uniform cut rock. 
Mexican Beach Pebbles are another black rock. These are rounded like river stones. Be sure to bring plenty of money, these are one of the most expensive landscape rock around here. 
Both of these materials (True slate and Mexican Beach Pebbles) are aquarium safe, and do not alter the water chemistry.


----------



## Diana

In that thread you linked there are many stones. Some are quartz. Quartz is aquarium safe if it does not have metallic ores that will enter the water. 
The black rocks (about halfway down) might be "slate" in a chunk form. But it might not. Those bands of white are interesting. The local mountain here has rocks from many geological ages, and one of them is a red rock with white bands like that. 

Each rock yard will call the rocks something different, only sometimes relating it to the place where the rock was mined. 

There are some dark rocks coming out of Montana, maybe ask the local rock yards if they have any.


----------



## Colorful

Diana said:


> Slate is dark grey to black, and looks black under water. I often see it in stores around here (Northern CA). Slate like material is also available in other colors, other rocks. If you like these, get a sample for testing, not all are really slate. The word slate is just being used for a very uniform cut rock.
> Mexican Beach Pebbles are another black rock. These are rounded like river stones. Be sure to bring plenty of money, these are one of the most expensive landscape rock around here.
> Both of these materials (True slate and Mexican Beach Pebbles) are aquarium safe, and do not alter the water chemistry.


I don't really like the look of slate it's too flat, and I have Mexican beach pebbles in my yard,but those are too round. Im like goldilocks, but with rocks


----------



## Diana

Probably the best thing to do is to go rock shopping. 
Each store will have something different. 
There are always chips of rock on or under the pallets, so get some samples to test. 
Find out what the people at the rock yard know about it. Place of origin, and any other info. Pictures are nice, too. 
Then come on back here with as much info as you can find out about perhaps your favorite 3-4 materials and lets see where we are.


----------



## Colorful

I really like the looks of both of these rocks? Does anyone know what they are? Thanks for the help Diana, I really appreciate it!


----------



## aweeby

both look like the imported ADA stones. the top is either ryouh (which is more pricey than seiryu) or seiryu and the bottom looks like yamaya. (which also looks suspiciously like the gravel you find on railroad beds...)


----------



## Colorful

aweeby said:


> both look like the imported ADA stones. the top is either ryouh (which is more pricey than seiryu) or seiryu and the bottom looks like yamaya. (which also looks suspiciously like the gravel you find on railroad beds...)


Thanks for the input, I think you might be right. Are ryouh and yamaya stones inert?


----------



## Colorful

Actually, after some thought, I think I just might go with lace rocks. They're inert and they would fit in well with my scape. Does anyone know where to get lace rock in orange county? Home Depots? Lowes? Osh?


----------



## Diana

Lace Rock is usually a form of limestone that has been partially eroded due to water. It will continue to dissolve in your tank, raising the mineral level and the pH. 

Go to your local rock yard. (Brick, soil, masonry, landscape...)
Bring some zip-lock bags and a Sharpie pen. 
Take samples (broken bits, almost dust that falls off all the time) of whatever you like and label the baggies. 
Test at home: Acid test, and put the samples in separate jars with water. Test GH, KH, pH, TDS. Run the test out at least a week, a couple of weeks is better.

Google Rock Yard Orange County CA to find a lot of them.


----------



## Colorful

Okay, i will go there after i come back from vacation. Thanks again for the help Diana!


----------



## starfire12

If you look at the pics of my tank in the aquascaping thread I have used zebra rock that looks really cool. If you like the looks of it my daughter has some for sale in the s/s thread. They do sell it in my LFS but for much more than what she is asking for hers and the price is with shipping.


----------



## Soup12

shrimpNewbie said:


> Is your water liquid rock to begin with?


lol


----------



## nikonD70s

if u have like a bonsai store near you check them out. they should have stones that are very similiar to seiryu rocks. theres a bonsai store here in cali. dont know the name of it. bu they sell these imitation seiryu rocks for $0.50 a lb and cheaper if u buy lots. and i see some people buying tons and flipping it on here and other website and labelling them as seiryu rocks and make a huge profit from it and most people cant tell the difference especially noobs.


----------



## Green_Flash

Well that explains their source(s), I didn't think they were importing tons of rocks from China or Japan, even with the necessary connections it would be a huge logistics dilemma to mine and ship rock. 

Btw very few have genuine Seiryu stone, which is from the Seiryu region in Japan, that stopped being mined years ago (which is why ADA doesn't sell it anymore). Now most of what is called Seiryu is from China. 

Anyone know the name of that Bonsai store? I would love to get that rock for 50 cents a lb or less ( the price it should be all the time anyway). :biggrin:


----------

