# Super resistant Ich strain?!?! Treating with Aquari-sol...



## caall99 (Jul 6, 2010)

Saturday, 13 November:
I noticed some of my new cardinals ($1 petsmart special) had some mild Ich and body fungus. I had picked them up the day prior and did not QT like an idiot.

Sunday, 14 November: 
I had my 5 discus delivered from a breeder. All in fantastic health about 5 months old.

Monday, 15 November:
I raised the temperature to 86F to combat the Ich naturally and make the discus feel at home.

Tuesday, 16 November: 
No change...

Wednesday, 17 November: 
Found dead cardinal...

Thursday, 18 November:
I noticed the raised temperature hadn't gotten rid of any of the cardinal's white spots and was certain that the discus picked up some white spots on their finnage. Performed 50% WC with gravel vac, used tetra water conditioner. I commenced treatment with Aquari-sol at full strength (12 drops/10 gals, i.e. 90 drops for my 75g every day) and agitated the surface of the water by lowering the level below the spray bar. Temperature reduced to 85F and maintained.

Friday, 19 November:
One discus looking very sickly, acting paralyzed just panting and panting on the substrate. I could pick her up with my hands and let her go and she would just fall to the bottom of the tank. Still treating with Aquari-sol daily.

Saturday, 20 November:
Found discus dead in the morning in the same place she landed when she last fell out of my hand. Sad times  Also a dead cardinal. Ever since i received the discus they have been hiding behind my plants. Ammonia levels are .5-1ppm. New tank syndrome???

Sunday, 21 November:
Ich is more pronounced on all inhabitants. I have not incurred one snail death yet, even though i am treating with copper (aquari-sol)...

Monday, 22 November:
My birthday... guess what i got... another dead cardinal. Really starting to get fed up. Now adding 100 drops vs 90. Still no dead snails. Really starting to wonder if this product does anything at all.

Tuesday, 23 November:
Ich is more pronounced on all cardinals. So far no reduction in white spots. If anything, the problem has gotten worse.

What is going on here? I am stressed out like no other and would really like to keep this fish alive. As far as i can tell the daily Aquari-sol dosing is doing absolutely nothing. Snails are still multiplying and the number of white spots are increasing. I am on my second 3/4 oz. Aquari-sol bottle.

Is there an alternative med that won't kill my plants and biofilter? Also, i do not want my silicone stained... help me... i am fighting a losing battle here.

Thanks,
Chris


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Try Mardel Maracide. Worked wonders on my resistant ICH experience. You should always QT... especially fish from PM. Sometimes we learn the hard way. Trust me, I've learned plenty the hard way.


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## caall99 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the response. Maracide contains Malachite green and that supposedly stains silicone. Did you notice any staining? How did your plants fair? How about the bio-filter?

What i do not understand is why Aquari-sol is sooooo ineffective. All my snails breeding is a pretty good sign that its impact on the protozoan is non existent.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

No stains. Plants only suffered minimally. They bounced back easily. As for bio filter, you should wash your filter after the treatment is completed. Just make sure you wear gloves .


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## caall99 (Jul 6, 2010)

That sounds like it killed your Bio filter... 
No staining?? Did you do half dose?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Why is your ammonia 0.5 to 1.0? That alone is a lethal level, even without the ich.

I'd dose salt, personally- since you need to start doing daily water changes to bring down the ammonia, and salt is cheap and easy to replace after each water change. You need to get and maintain the ammonia and nitrites well under 0.25ppm. You're working with some of THE most sensitive fish species in terms of water parameters... all the meds in the world won't do any good if your water quality is also poor.

If you go with a commercial med rather than salt, it's going to get expensive to maintain the water changes you need to keep the water parameters up, yet replace the meds each time to maintain a therapeutic level in the tank.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

I did the recomended doses as it states on the bottle. The reason you wanna clean out the filter (and a massive H2O change) after the treatment is because, the active ingredient is rather carcinogenic.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

If you want to go the safe but expensive route, it's to get a UV sterilizer. I think there's a relatively cheap one called 'mean green' something.


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## caall99 (Jul 6, 2010)

anyother effective organic treatments?

is my aquari-sol just a bad batch? all my snails are alive and thriving even though i am overdosing a tiny bit...


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

salt is your friend. Works wonders in combination with the raised tank temp.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

I agree that you have to address the ammonia issue too.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

At this point here is what I would do:

Day 1, AM: 50% water change, with VERY thorough gravel vac. The very best you can do with plants in the tank. Hover over the leaves, and get as deep into all the corners and so on. The Ich that has fallen off the fish are landing on the substrate, and on the other things in the tank and are starting (well, continuing) to reproduce. 
Add activated carbon to the filter. 
Day 1, PM: 50% water change, another really thorough gravel vac. 
Day 2: Add 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons salt. Do it this way: mix the required amount with some water and add it slowly over the course of the day. You can remove the activated carbon. If you think there may still be some medicine in the water add some fresh. 
Day 3: Another 50% water change. Add to the new water salt at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons (This makes the new water the same as the water in the tank) Then, add more salt, 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons salt the same way you did yesterday.
Day 4: Add 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons salt the same way you did yesterday.

From here on out do water changes every other day. They do not have to be 50%, just whatever it takes to keep the ammonia and nitrite under control. Add salt to the new water at the rate of 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. If you still need to do more or larger water changes that is OK, too. Keep the ammonia and nitrite under control, and simply remember to make the new water match the salt level of the water in the tank. 

Here is what may have gone wrong with the heat method: 
If the thermometer told you the water was 86*F....
1) At the floor of the tank it was not that warm, and Ich falls to the floor to reproduce. 
2) Thermometer might not be accurate. 
3) There is a heat tolerant strain of Ich that cannot be killed at any temperature that is safe for our fish. 

Here is what may have gone wrong with the medication:
1) Old medicine. Is there a date on it? 
2) Too much organic matter in the tank. Some meds combine with the composting matter instead of the parasite. 
3) Underdosing, especially combined with 1) or 2). Do you have an accurate volume of the tank + any external filter, sump or other water that is part of the system? 
4) Not medicating for a long enough time. 
Ich life cycle:
Ich lands on the fish in a single cell that you cannot see. It grows for several days before you can see it. You will keep seeing new Ich on the fish for a few days after you start medicating. This does not mean the medicine has failed. Keep up the dosing. If more Ich keeps on showing up for a week, especially at such warm temperatures, then the medicine may not be working. 
Toward the end of treatment the last few Ich fall off the fish and land on the floor of the tank to reproduce. Reproduction may take a day or two. Then the Ich babies may live for a day or so looking for a host. You must keep up the treatment beyond the time these babies are dead. The medicine only kills these babies. Do not stop treatment too soon.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I'd turn your tank up to 90. Fish will be fine ich will hopefully die before it can reproduce. Don't know about your plants.


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## fischman (Feb 22, 2010)

I would combine Diana and bsmiths suggestions. Keep the temp high, your fish should be fine at 90 for a week or 2. I would stop using the meds you have as it sounds like they have destroyed your bio filter. This means you need to focus on water changes to keep the fish from dieing from ammonia. Plus fish stressed from ammonia are more susceptible to other infections from parasites and secondary infections that could show up later. I would use the salt over the stuff you've been using. After 10-14 days at this temperature you should no longer see any signs of the parasites and they should be gone for several days before lowering the temps and doing large water changes to remove the salt.

Josh


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## caall99 (Jul 6, 2010)

And you think my plants will survive this heat and especially salt? I was considering buying cupramine or coppersafe with a test kit and treating with copper "the right way". Could my ich be copper resistant at this point?


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## Michelle_WI (Aug 18, 2009)

I had Ich in my tank a couple months ago. I raised the temp to 90, added salt at 1.5 tsp per gal and kept it that way for about 2 weeks. I lost a few cories, and a tetra or 2, but most fish survived. The plants took a hit from the heat and salt, but they bounced back. The warmer the water, the less O2 it holds, so it's a good idea to also increase aeration.


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## gblaca (Jul 11, 2011)

I am curious what happened to your Ick situation. I am having the same problem in my tank right now.


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## tetraontheedge (Dec 7, 2010)

What about the technique where you take the fish out and keep them in a separate container, then move them to another container every x number of hours?

You would continue to transfer the fish on this schedule (with new water at the same temp in the container you are transferring them to), such that when the ich fall off, they are left behind in the old container. The fish are in clean, ich-free water, so no new ich can attach to them.

Eventually all the ich is off them, and no new ich is on them.

Here is a link:

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/v...rt=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&vote=viewresult

Scroll down to post #6.


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## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

In my opinion, moving the fish between tanks does work, but it's a lot of work, and it's a lot of stress on the fish. My choice would be first to increase temp and if that didn't work use one of the standard meds for the disease. 

If it was a med that might do in the plants, I'd move the fish to a quarantine tank first.


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## Redfeather (Nov 28, 2011)

*BSmith*

You should not turn up the heater to 90 unless you want to have cooked Plecos. Turning up past 78, to take it out of the comfort zone, will do the trick and kill the ich. I have 40 Yrs experience with fish and Plecos.:fish:


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## Redfeather (Nov 28, 2011)

Bad advice. First thing you are putting them in fresh water and there are no biofilters in fresh water. You would be stressing the fish which could give you a whole new set of problems.


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## Redfeather (Nov 28, 2011)

Corys and Placo's are very sensitive fish. Bacterias, ich, and several fish diseases can multiply between about 70 and 81 degrees. Get a degree or 2 outside that range, you can stop it from growing. Get yourself some ich medicine. Also 1/4 teaspoon of epsom salts. I cured my ich in 48 hours. I had a heater that quit on me without my knowledge. Ich is caused from tank temps dipping from highs to lows. It can also be caused from adding fish that has the disease. There are other things that can cause it but these 2 are the biggest reasons. I have three 55 gallon tanks (plecos, corys, gold fish) and 40 yrs experience with fish. Hope this helps.


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## psmith (Jul 20, 2011)

I have successfully treated ich with Aquarisol when heat and salt failed me. I think the trick is to use a water conditioner that does not interfere with it. Many water conditioners, like Prime, detoxify copper. Ammo-lock was the water conditioner I used during the Aquarisol treatment.


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