# Eco Complete



## szenic

Hello, just wondering about people's experience with caribsea eco complete planted aquarium substrate. I was planning on doing a small 10g planted tank. All the reviews I've found have been good.


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## Mr. Appleton

We have it an almost all of our tanks and it is quite good at supporting plant growth. It's nice that you don't have to rinse it before use ... No real cons to it that we've experienced.


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## happi

szenic said:


> Hello, just wondering about people's experience with caribsea eco complete planted aquarium substrate. I was planning on doing a small 10g planted tank. All the reviews I've found have been good.


it become useless unless you dose ferts in water. other than that its just a good source of absorbing nutrients from water.


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## kevmo911

The neatest thing about EcoComplete (and Flourite, for that matter) is that it allows you to be a bit lazier about dosing regimens. Because it has a high CEC (think: nutrient retention capacity), it will absorb excess fertilizers that plants can use at their leisure.

EcoComplete, despite its implied claims to the contrary, is inert. It does not come packed with anything at all. It's up to you, the fertilizer-in-chief, to do the fertilizing. But can you grow really cool stuff in it? Sure.


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## szenic

Would it work for me to dose with seachem flourish excel? what other ferts should I use?


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## wkndracer

*I KNOW* all the 'ad gab' on Flourite original and Eco Complete and I've read user posts stating one is high in iron and the other supplies everything plants need. Well,,,,,,,
both have a high CEC which is useful but that's about it. I got over the rest of the blah, blah, blah on the crushed brick and volcanic gravel wish others would too. Be nice if they changed the label on EC.
Worth buying? If you have the spare funds yes. I've bought a pallet of Flourite and a wheel barrow full of EcoComp but I realize it's inert and use it mostly as a capping material now.

Having an inert sub tank I would add tablet supplements ever 3 months for rooted plants. Easy method and works great.

Eco is safe and easy to use so a good choice.

What is CEC think (Cation Exchange Capacity) :hihi: but yes think plant nutrient retention capacity or storing from the water and returning as needed until the supply is exhausted sort of like a battery too LOL.


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## szenic

wkndracer said:


> *I KNOW* all the 'ad gab' on Flourite original and Eco Complete and I've read user posts stating one is high in iron and the other supplies everything plants need. Well,,,,,,,
> both have a high CEC which is useful but that's about it. I got over the rest of the blah, blah, blah on the crushed brick and volcanic gravel wish others would too. Be nice if they changed the label on EC.
> Worth buying? If you have the spare funds yes. I've bought a pallet of Flourite and a wheel barrow full of EcoComp but I realize it's inert and use it mostly as a capping material now.
> 
> Having an inert sub tank I would add tablet supplements ever 3 months for rooted plants. Easy method and works great.
> 
> Eco is safe and easy to use so a good choice.
> 
> What is CEC think (Cation Exchange Capacity) :hihi: but yes think plant nutrient retention capacity or storing from the water and returning as needed until the supply is exhausted sort of like a battery too LOL.


What do you mean when you say you use it as a capping material?


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## szenic

Also, would you still use a vac to clean it?


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## jerkosaurus

A capping material is any substrate that one would put over top (cap) a specialty or high- nutrient substrate (dirt, MTS, aquasoil, whatever). And generally in a heavily planted tank, little to no gravel vacuuming is needed.


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## wkndracer

Clean the surface in open areas yes by all means but most of the sub will be to full of plants in most tanks (mine anyway LOL) for much vacuuming


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## Miles

I have used Eco complete in 5 planted tanks of mine and I love it, you can put it directly in to your tank and it barely has any dust. Looks pretty good, good varying size of the rocks and such. My plants all love it.


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## szenic

Do moss carpets do well on this substrate? Anyone have experience doing it? and what kind of moss did you use?


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## somewhatshocked

szenic: Yes, many mosses will do fine on it. It's got a rough surface which is nice for moss attachment.

I recommend searching the forum for "Eco-Complete" to see what people think about it, see photos of it and learn about other experiences.


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## szenic

I just received some eco-complete in the mail. What's the liquid in the bag?


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## somewhatshocked

szenic: It's their "beneficial bacteria" - supposedly allows you to jump start a cycle. It's one of the reasons so many people enjoy EC. You can put it in a new tank without rinsing it and have the added bonus of helping get a bacteria colony going.


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## koldsoup

When I went to the LFS and asked about Eco Complete, they said that they don't carry it because it's bad and raises pH. Any experiences with it changing water chemistry?


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## CrazyCatPeekin

I have two tanks with the regular black eco-complete and two tanks without. All 4 have the same PH. The eco-complete tanks are new and have been running for about 2 weeks or so.


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## koldsoup

Great, eco complete it is for me then!


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## somewhatshocked

koldsoup: Eco-Complete is inert and does not impact your water parameters.


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## wkndracer

*no biggie but,,,*

Sorry to disagree but indeed the additives used currently in the packaging does shift KH/pH parameters initially. Nothing major but after 24hrs I tested a 2dKH rise on two tanks after start up. 
Posted test results on the two new 55g systems this year using only EcoComp in the journals on the tanks. Again nothing huge just a 2dKH shift and after the second WC that ended. Just part of they're 'magic juice' used in packaging.


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## somewhatshocked

Interesting. I've got four bags of new stuff shipped directly from CaribSea and haven't had any parameter shifts at all.


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## wkndracer

somewhatshocked said:


> Interesting. I've got four bags of new stuff shipped directly from CaribSea and haven't had any parameter shifts at all.


Filled the tanks with 43g of 100% RO and 2.5 - 3 bags of EcoComp and 24hrs later saw the shift on both. As posted a 2dKH shift is minor and didn't last beyond a water change. The kits used are relied on to set pH controllers and I'm comfortable the test results were valid.


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## somewhatshocked

I don't disbelieve you at all. Could be the mix in my public water system is already similar to what comes as "beneficial bacteria" in the bag.


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## somewhatshocked

brothergc: What were your water parameters? How long had the tank been cycled? Light level? Ferts?

While possible Eco-Complete caused part of your problem, I'd need to know many more details in order to be able to come to that conclusion.


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## szenic

I just added eco complete to a new tank, everything in the bag no rinsing. And the water is very murky. Is it supposed to be? To those of you who've used it, was your water murky when you first poured it in?


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## OverStocked

brothergc said:


> well I was about to start a thread on this stuff and here is my experience with the stuff..
> I started a new tank with all ECO complete . about a week into it I kept getting algle , green algae , brown algae on my plants . I even got green alge growing on the eco complete and it was a mess . Soon my black ECO complets became a geen floor of thick algle. What a mess ! Dispite running 2 power filters and a team of 5 Ottos and 2 Plecostomus they just could not keep up , my water quailty went down hill . After buying more and better filters , which did not help ( bought a ehiem 2226) I was getting worse not better . I also noticed smelly water and I changed water 2x a week ! I got desprete as now ICH started to apear on my neons . So my LFS was closed so i went to meijher and bought 50 LBS of gravel . Tore the whole tank down , dumped ALL the eco complete in the trash . That was 3 days ago and now my water is crystal clear , and no green algae.
> So eco complete ? never again


This coming from a guy who makes money from you buying something other than a commercial substrate....

Eco-complete did absolutely, 100% not cause your algae or ich. 

Too much light, too little co2, and too little nutrients did. I promise. 

Your bag of gravel is only going to have a less cec, nothing else. It might be less friendly to plants as well. 

The algae you describe is common to new tanks, especially new tanks with too much light/too long of a photoperiod. 

I see you have 4xt5HO? LOL, I'd replace your lights if you don't want algae.... that is a lot of light. Filters also are not going to take out algae if you keep pumping in a boat load of light. 

No co2, in combination with very high lighting is a recipe for disaster. 

End of story, unfortunately.


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## kevmo911

brothergc said:


> Get new lights ? Seriously ? So I should buy lights New lights that I already have , The ones I have are coralife and each 2x 31 bank of bulbs have their own on off switch so I should buy new lights ?Seriously?
> yea right :icon_roll
> sure , you bet ! LMAF
> What next your going to say next? I need a new tank and filter too ?
> Awe Man Your rich !
> LMAF all over the place !


4xT5HO without injected CO2 and a comprehensive fert regimen will cause a whole lot of algae. End of story. No need to be sarcastic about it.

Remove two of the bulbs and/or raise the fixture a good deal above the tank. And save the nasty comments for somebody who's not trying to help you.


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## OverStocked

brothergc said:


> Get new lights ? Seriously ? So I should buy lights New lights that I already have , The ones I have are coralife and each 2x 31 bank of bulbs have their own on off switch so I should buy new lights ?Seriously?
> yea right :icon_roll
> sure , you bet ! LMAF
> What next your going to say next? I need a new tank and filter too ?
> Awe Man Your rich !
> LMAF all over the place !


You're response was cute(and indescipherable) but let me break it down in a simple term. 

YOU HAVE TOO MUCH LIGHT. I bet with even only 2xt5ho bulb running, you have TOO MUCH LIGHT, particularly for a NON CO2 tank. 

THe lights are your problem, not the substrate. YOu can put pure gold in their and it isn't going to change the fact that this much light is always going to grow lots of algae. 


It is cute that you think you know everything and that someone trying to help you who happens to make a living in this business is automatically wrong....

BUt your drastic changes from eco-complete to an inert, overpriced gravel substrate are not going to do anything positive for your tank. Simply put, you have TOO MUCH LIGHT. 

I'll not waste any more keystrokes pointing out the obvious, since it seems you aren't interested in what is actually wrong with your tank. 

Eco-complete works fine as a substrate. It contains no nutrients, but does a good job of holding on to the ones we add to the substrate. It looks nice too. 

Aquarium gravel is essentially useless. It has no CEC, and the grain size is often to large to really allow proper plant root growth.

It appears you have already tried to fix everything but the actual problem. YOu have replaced substrate, added expensive filtration(next to no impact on algae, btw). YOu have not raised your lights, ran them less(maybe 5-6 hours a day), nor have you added proper co2 or nutrients(this tank is in the HIGH lighting category, even with one set of lights on, likely) A dosing schedule like EI or pps pro or RootMedic or Pfertz is necessary at this point. But without co2 you'll still be having to deal with the algae farm. 

TOO MUCH LIGHT, TOO LITTLE CO2 AND TOO LITTLE NUTRIENTS IS *ALWAYS *THE CAUSE OF ALGAE.

Eco-complete(or almost any substrate of your choosing) did not cause your problem. Too much light did. Raise them up, run them less, whatever you have to do.


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## somewhatshocked

OverStocked/Justin knows what he's talking about.

That's why I asked the questions I asked. 

No one here is being flippant - they're trying to help. If you have concerns or questions about what they're saying, just ask or search the rest of the forum. It's a tremendous resource and has helped me countless times over the years.


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## Msoar16

brothergc said:


> Get new lights ? Seriously ? So I should buy lights New lights that I already have , The ones I have are coralife and each 2x 31 bank of bulbs have their own on off switch so I should buy new lights ?Seriously?
> yea right :icon_roll
> sure , you bet ! LMAF
> What next your going to say next? I need a new tank and filter too ?
> Awe Man Your rich !
> LMAF all over the place !


You really think you are going to get any help with that attitude? Next time maybe you should do a little research before you start up a new tank, lighting sticky should have been the first place you looked and would have saved you some cash too. People are just telling you what your problem is since you asked, it's not their fault you have too much light.


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## driftwoodhunter

I wish you had tossed the eco complete in MY trash - I'd dig it out!


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## szenic

Umm... Back to the cloudiness question I had...? Sorry to interrupt..


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## HolyAngel

lol wow, talk about hijacked :/

the cloudiness can happen if it wasnt rinsed. as long as the filter is running though, it should clear up within a day or two


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## szenic

HolyAngel said:


> lol wow, talk about hijacked :/
> 
> the cloudiness can happen if it wasnt rinsed. as long as the filter is running though, it should clear up within a day or two


I didn't rinse it because it says not to for new tanks? It cleared up after a day, but whenever I disturb it at all, it kicks up again and then takes another couple hours to settle again. Will this continue to happen whenever it's disturbed? Or will water changes help? And is eco complete too light to be gravel vac'd?


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## Martin_G

szenic said:


> Hello, just wondering about people's experience with caribsea eco complete planted aquarium substrate. I was planning on doing a small 10g planted tank. All the reviews I've found have been good.


 
I have the black Eco-Complete in a 15g w/plants & shrimp. The plants appear to like it as do the shrimp! The shrimp forage around in it & climb all over the plants, plus the black color really shows off the red cherry shrimps!

Well, AFAIK they both seem to like it! I have yet to see the shrimps stick a "post-it" message on the tank telling me otherwise! LOL!


HTH,

Martin


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## szenic

Martin_G said:


> I have the black Eco-Complete in a 15g w/plants & shrimp. The plants appear to like it as do the shrimp! The shrimp forage around in it & climb all over the plants, plus the black color really shows off the red cherry shrimps!
> 
> Well, AFAIK they both seem to like it! I have yet to see the shrimps stick a "post-it" message on the tank telling me otherwise! LOL!
> 
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Martin


Was yours cloudy when you first added it to your tank?

And has anyone head about these "bad batches" of eco complete that people have gotten? And how would you know if you got a bad batch?


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## Martin_G

szenic said:


> Was yours cloudy when you first added it to your tank?
> 
> And has anyone head about these "bad batches" of eco complete that people have gotten? And how would you know if you got a bad batch?


 
It was slightly cloudy for a very short time then it was fine. I can't comment on any bad batches. One bag was bought from an online store and the second bag was bought from the LFS.

Both bags were in all respects, identical. Although a chemical is included to help with the cloudiness I didn't use it. Some might have to use it with their water for various reasons but my set-up went 1-2-3.



HTH for you!


Martin


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## somewhatshocked

Just about anything you add to your tank without putting it in first and adding water super-slowly will cloud your water for a while. It's only temporary.

If you had a bad batch, you'd know. Everything you have would likely be dead and your parameters would be woah outta whack.


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## OverStocked

This isn't about opinions or how much you spent on the light.... I spent 200 bucks on a co2 system, that doesn't mean it wasn't responsible for gassing my fish... 

The problem is that if you keep with the light level you have, you will continue to have algae. Regardless of how much the lights cost. You need to do something to change the light levels, ie, run them less, raise them significantly higher, etc. 

YOu should really run co2 and EI/PPS ferts with that level of lighting, too. A nutrient free substrate isn't going to help either. 


Not being mean or rude. You simple gave a review of a product related to the OP and based on the facts I think it is a bit off base. 


*To the OP*, the cloudiness is normal. Do a water change of around 50% and keep your filter going. Should improve quickly.


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## In2wishin

szenic said:


> I didn't rinse it because it says not to for new tanks? It cleared up after a day, but whenever I disturb it at all, it kicks up again and then takes another couple hours to settle again. Will this continue to happen whenever it's disturbed? Or will water changes help? And is eco complete too light to be gravel vac'd?


You will get that little bit of cloudiness for a little while until the smaller particles settle under the bigger ones. Eco-Complete is designed to self-layer. I recently completely re-did my 12 gal and used Eco. It has been a couple of weeks and I just realized that I haven't had the cloudiness for at least a week so I think a week to 10 days for it to completely go away although it gets less each day.


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## Patriot

Can't wait to get my order in. I'm glad it doesn't have anything added to it since I'm going to use it on an anubias tank. When it absorb the nutrients does it release it back into the water for leaf absorbing plant or keep in for root absorbing plants?


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## GeToChKn

Throw some filter floss in your filter, cloudyness clears up in a few hours. I've used bags of the stuff and always load up my filter with floss, it clears up, remove the floss, good to go.


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## somewhatshocked

brothergc said:


> what ever , Its been days now that I dumped the eco complete and what do you know clear water aand no green alage or brown and I did not even have to buy new lights ! Whatta know seems you guys here dont know what your talking about


Wow, the attitude, really? No one here is being flippant. Please remember that you CANNOT determine tone-of-voice from written text on a screen.

Everyone here has been in this hobby for years/decades. They're trying to help you by giving you expert advice based on solid practices. In fact, most of the folks responding to you work in the aquaria hobby in addition to being hobbyists themselves. They know their stuff.

If you don't think these folks know what they're talking about, I highly suggest you take time to go through the myriad stickies throughout this forum that outline and detail everything you need to know and understand about lighting, substrates, fertilizer and CO2 before making claims you just cannot back up scientifically.

This forum is a great place and a terrific resource. There's a reason it's been around for so long. People here know their stuff.


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## OverStocked

brothergc said:


> Well I will *try* again , I started out *not wanting any help*
> I was trying to share my experence with the product . What I got was bogus advice to "get new lights" ( go back and read previous posts)
> Notice He said "Get new lights " not "raise your lights " or something more usefull . He did even ask how long I run my lights , just assumed my lights were the issue and went from thier. So How can I take this guy as someone who is quailfied to offer serious advice . Then everyone jumps on the "its your lights bandwagon " Well no, Its not MY lights . I am suspecting we have a bunch of Eco complete fanboys here . well *if *thats the case then so be it . But for me , I would not give you a nickel for a truck load of it.
> What I can say is my problems disapeared once eco complete did . Nothing else changed . All you people are welcome to believe what you will , but I am looking at the proof right before my eyes and the eco complete fanboys want to argue and say it just could not be...whatever !
> To the guy who just bought Eco complete , you can expect cloudy water , and you will keep getting it , over and over , and over. I suspect that this stuff allows algae to grow deep in its pourus material , and you can forget trying to use a vacuume to clean the substrate . All you will end up with is a mess and more cloudy water.
> Perhaps if you cover the eco complete with gravel then you might make it work , but I dought it.


I do not use ecocomplete, I happen to the a fertilizer manufacturer(see the little rootmedic thing?) and use sand/gravel tanks with rootmedic as the base. 

You are making it very clear that you do not understand algae or substrates. The best substrates out there are highly pourous. ADA aquasoil, fluval stratum, turface, flourite, etc, etc. The high CEC is a benefit, not a downside. 

IN a planted tank, vacuuming the substrate isn't need, and is usually damaging to plant roots. ALl you need to do is skim over the surface to make sure the crud in cracks gets picked up. You should have enough flow that there isn't a lot of there, though. 

Your problems "disappeared" because you started your tank over again. They will come back. YOu have an algae farm with a huge imbalance of light and complete lack of nutrients and co2. 


I happen to be qualified in this subject. I am the owner and developer of an aquarium fertilizer company(though notice when I said to get ferts I didn't suggest you buy mine), and have enough experience and actual lab testing to be comfortable(and right) here. 

Perhaps you should look at Hoppy's T5 par chart. SHow you what level you have and what that means--in part that you need co2(high co2) and high levels of fertilizers. Not and airstone and some leaf zone... 


You came into a review thread and attributed a problem to the product that isn't the products fault. I would make more money from people buying cheap sand and a load of rootmedic, but lots of people buy Eco-complete and no one has ever reported this nonsense. It is inert volcanic sand. End of story. It isn't some magical algae growing fairy. 

You might not LIKE to hear that the lights you spent so much money on are the cause, but they are. How you deal with it is up to you, but you need to lower the light intensity to prevent the algae from recurring. 

IF you'd rather, you can just get the algae soup that is coming and then pretend it never happened and never tell anyone about it and act like you were always right and big bad meany justin was sooooo mean to you for pointing out that you were wrong and completely irrational because someone suggested that your 3 minutes of planted tank experience might have given you wrong information or impressions.


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## OverStocked

brothergc said:


> boring useless information from someone who has proven nothing to me and has given such bogus advice that I just cant believe a word you say . belive what you will and I will do the same and lets end this nonsence *NOW!*


At least one of us is right. 

Just because someone gives you advice you don't like doesn't mean they are wrong.... 

Read THIS:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html



http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html


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## GeToChKn

brothergc said:


> Well I will *try* again , I started out *not wanting any help*
> I was trying to share my experence with the product . What I got was bogus advice to "get new lights" ( go back and read previous posts)
> Notice He said "Get new lights " not "raise your lights " or something more usefull . He did even ask how long I run my lights , just assumed my lights were the issue and went from thier. So How can I take this guy as someone who is quailfied to offer serious advice . Then everyone jumps on the "its your lights bandwagon " Well no, Its not MY lights . I am suspecting we have a bunch of Eco complete fanboys here . well *if *thats the case then so be it . But for me , I would not give you a nickel for a truck load of it.
> What I can say is my problems disapeared once eco complete did . Nothing else changed . All you people are welcome to believe what you will , but I am looking at the proof right before my eyes and the eco complete fanboys want to argue and say it just could not be...whatever !
> To the guy who just bought Eco complete , you can expect cloudy water , and you will keep getting it , over and over , and over. I suspect that this stuff allows algae to grow deep in its pourus material , and you can forget trying to use a vacuume to clean the substrate . All you will end up with is a mess and more cloudy water.
> Perhaps if you cover the eco complete with gravel then you might make it work , but I dought it.


Been using it for 8 months with no problem. With a proper filter, I can clear the cloudyness in a few hours and have dumped 60 shrimp into the cloudy mess with no effects. I have a bit of algae because I intentionally run my lights long to allow the algae to grow for the baby shrimp, but I had to intentionally try and grow algae, it wouldn't grow for the longest time. To blame the soil for algae shows you don't understand aquariums, but whatever, its all the substrate. Lots of us use it here with no effects. It even tells you on the bag it will be cloudy because its loaded with bacteria to jumpstart a tank cycling. As said, its a porus rock, nothing more. Nothing added to it in terms of ferts or anything and probably one of the more benign substrates out there. Algae is too much light without enough CO2. Period. By your statement, you could put eco-complete in a tank, in the dark and 2 weeks later have an algae farm and cloudy water. LOL.


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## lauraleellbp

brothergc said:


> Sir , I am done , PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I do not want your advice or help . Nor Am I interested in *anything you have to say*That should be crystal clear so stop your wasting your time so please sir stop trying


If you have no desire for opinions or commentary, my advice is to not post on a forum.

Please stop threadjacking this thread.


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## lauraleellbp

szenic said:


> Was yours cloudy when you first added it to your tank?
> 
> And has anyone head about these "bad batches" of eco complete that people have gotten? And how would you know if you got a bad batch?


Most new tanks go through some initial cloudiness when first set up- often it's a bacteria bloom as the tank begins to cycle. 

I haven't heard anything about bad batches of Eco Complete in years, I think? CaribSea fixed the quality control problem they were having, and all of those batches should be long gone at this point.

If you end up with continual water cloudiness or algae issues and you're using Eco Complete, it's infinitely more likely that something else is out of balance with your tank- most commonly light levels and/or issues properly establishing the nitrogen cycle.


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## Chaoslord

Love my eco complete. I have it in 3 of my tanks 14g ,29g ,56g.
You just dump it in and add your water! Do not rinse ! You'll rinse your bb away. 
After the water clears up I will mix the eco up again a major mix up then I do my scape add the plants I want to start. Water is super cloudy.
Takes up to a day to clear then I add my starter fish.
I have one question why do they advertise that it's loaded with all the minerals and trace elements if its inert? 
My 14 I have had going for 3 yrs and I just started putting root tabs in the gravel bed. My 29 has been going for 2 yrs and I have not added root tabs yet still happy with growth rate. Just started my 56 for 3 weeks now and I can all ready see growth from everything I planted so far. The only plant I was having problems with is my red tiger loctus. I thought I losing it , it was down to 2 leaves one melting. I cut the one melting and saw 2 new leaves poking out. Yeah, love my tiger and I should get full potential where I planted it.


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## happi

i have been using my eco-complete for long time and take a look at the results. i did add some root tabs too :icon_lol:


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## audioaficionado

Now let's see you immerse that puppy


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## happi

audioaficionado said:


> Now let's see you immerse that puppy


lol, that was just a joke but am serious about using my eco complete for that plant, it did not grow the plants in my tank, but it sure makes a good soil for the pots.


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## lauraleellbp

I've got some pothos ivy in Flourite in one of my planters. I had some left over and it was convenient... works pretty well! :icon_smil


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## happi

lauraleellbp said:


> I've got some pothos ivy in Flourite in one of my planters. I had some left over and it was convenient... works pretty well! :icon_smil


you got any pic of that?


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## Clifford85

Hello,
I currently have a 55 gallon tank that I have had going for 7 years now. It has always had fake plants with other log and driftwood decorations. I now want to change it over to a live planted tank. I was thinking about removing the substrate I have in there now which is a mixture of 1/2' - 3/4" of what looks like river rock with different tans and browns in color. I was thinking of removing the substrate because I feel it is to larger to allow live plants to stay rooted securely. Any suggestions on how to make the change over?


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## gmh

Clifford85, you should start a new thread with this topic.


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