# Reglohs 10ga office tank *56k warning*



## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

Looks good so far!

What kind of Shrimp are you thinking?

My faves are:
Crystal Red
Crystal Black
Yellow
Green
Red Cherry
Tangerine
Blue Pearl
Black Tiger
Black Bees [I think...]
Snowball
Ghost...and I think that's it! lol... good luck on your tank and I hope it progresses well!

As for a light...a regualar 15W T8 fixture will do ok! They are made in 20"...but, if push comes to shove you can always search on the web for one...a better one or even thaat one. I have trouble finding lights myself and even more trouble convincing my parents I need them!...too bad it's my money! Well, off to work in a bit!


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback! I was planing on regular Red Cherries for now. 

I actually did break down today and stopped at a LFS and bought the All-Glass 15w T8 fixture with hood  I probably paid way too much for it, but if no one tells my wife, I'll be ok


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Wow,
This is really cool project. I've never even heard of a Hamburger Mattenfilter until now. Will it be tough to clean?


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

fastfreddie said:


> Wow,
> This is really cool project. I've never even heard of a Hamburger Mattenfilter until now. Will it be tough to clean?


Thanks, 

actually the idea of the HMF is, that you never have to clean it. At least that's the theory...

I will be away for a week now, so I may be slow to respond.


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

Regloh said:


> Thanks,
> 
> actually the idea of the HMF is, that you never have to clean it. At least that's the theory...
> 
> I will be away for a week now, so I may be slow to respond.


I'm one of the critical folks about them. All the reviews I've read on them say something like "you never have to clean them until you have to clean them sometimes." :hihi:

My only real problem with the HMF is that people claim it's something other than a large sponge filter. We all know that sponge filters have some great benefits. They are one of the most effective biological filters, second only to a wet/dry, IMO.

I think I'm going to do an HMF on my 15 gallon, but I refuse to call it an HMF. It will be a VLSF. A very large sponge filter.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Interesting design. I look forward to seeing this in action.


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

HMF is a VERY different beast to a sponge filter. Especially the "sponge" filters we Americans pimp. Most sponge filters try to get all the water they can through the sponge to allow the MOST biofiltration possible. Sadly, this is completely backwards from the actual truth. The contact time required for bacteria to do their job, and the layer of mulm required for the HMF to do its job is just not possible with sponge filters. Even the air driven sponges have too much flow through them. The surface area of the HMF is what allows you to have a 2x turnover rate through the sponge while still allowing the water to pass through any given area of the sponge VERY slowly, allowing the bacteria to actually do their job.

You can get a LOT more technical than this about it, but I won't because I can't even remember the math behind it (it's made by German engineers, so there's a LOT of math) but the bad part about it is that in a heavily planted tank, it's just not that needed.

What it WON"T do (that sets it apart from sponge filters) is mechanical filtration. Sponges are the BEST at this job, but not so much in the biological catagory. (especially powerhead driven sponges) The HMF is just a terrible mechanical filter, which also makes it a fairly bad candidate (or at least not optimal) for most finicky planted tank owners. (myself included)

Anyone who has had a real, and by real I mean built with the correct math in mind, HMF in a tank for any amount of time will tell you that they do NOT need cleaning. By cleaning, I mean removing to squeeze out, as you would a sponge. If you think the mulm is unsightly, you can simply run your python over the outer edge of it to pull any matter you feel doesn't LOOK good to you, but it won't harm the filter or its capacity one way or the other. Most people simply turn the MHF into a moss wall and it'll still do its job just as well with the moss hiding the works. Great place to hide heaters, etc as well.

Keep this one updated. I'm anxious to see your design in action, as I've never seen one that split the sponge like that to hide the ugly seems. (well the seams would be ugly if I made it anyway lol)

*edit* if you make it an "American version" of a mattenfilter, like the WasserMattenFilter or some such (no offense to the DIY guru himself I love your plywood tanks lol) meaning you up the flow to accomodate the mechanical filtration needed, then yes. you've just made a big sponge filter. I'm talking about REAL mattenfilters designed and implemented as they were intended.


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

Oh. I didn't realize it had german engineering. And it has math too. Yeah, that's definitely not a big sponge filter.


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

http://www.janrigter.nl/mattenfilter/

*edit* left the link, removed the snarky comment. My apologies to the OP for thread ganking. The link, however, is a great read for all. Especially those who either haven't heard of, or do not fully understand the HMF.


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

jargonchipmunk said:


> http://www.janrigter.nl/mattenfilter/
> 
> *edit* left the link, removed the snarky comment. My apologies to the OP for thread ganking. The link, however, is a great read for all. Especially those who either haven't heard of, or do not fully understand the HMF.


That's exactly how I'm going to set up my VLSF. I'm just going to do it without saying dopey things like biological filtration is superior to mechanical filtration.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Regloh said:


> Ok guys,
> My next bigger hurdle is a light fixture. I went to several different pet stores and couldn't find a fixture for a 10g.


Here is one from Pet Smart. Look here http://shop.aquatraders.com/Odyssea-...re-p/51102.htm.


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

What kind of pump are you using?


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

I think I bought a RIO180. On paper this pump has quite a bit too much flow for the calculations, but I am going to throttle it down some with a small valve on the outflow that came with the pump.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

I am slowly creeping up to the move...
I added some root tabs and gravel last night. My other tank is completely overgrown after a week out of the country, and I am planing on throwing a bunch of plants into the new tank to help with cycling the filter. I also plan on preserving a bunch of filter sludge when I finally clean it and throw it in at the first fill. 

What do you guys think? Should I get some zebra danios initially? Or do you think harlequin rasboras are "hearty" enough. I could borrow those from the 55g at home. I was thinking about 5 of them... 

Once the cycle is complete I wanted to grab 3 otos and order 20 cherry red shrimp. I have not decided if the harlequins would then go back or just stay...

The hardest part is now to clean up my office enough so I can move some furniture


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Hoggard, excellent DIY!!

I see you bought the glass and cutter from HD! I actually have that pencil like glass cutter!! You could've borrowed it! I used it cut a glass top for one of my tanks. Took a good bit of practice to get it perfect though.

I think your filtration will be very shrimp friendly. No shrimp kiddies will get sucked into the filter.

You can try one of those 27w hampton lights over the tank? If it's in your office, it should look pretty normal to have a desktop lamp.

Will you have a cover over this tank?
I need to stop by to check it out when it's ready!


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Oh and if you are trying to look for a CFL or plant fixture locally, you're better off picking up one used off the SnS or buying one online. Alot cheaper.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Matt, I actually bought a standard hood for a 10g a couple of weeks ago. I want to keep this tank low light so this should be enough light... 15w at 6500K...

I also managed to spend a lunch break re-arranging my office. Now I have the space, but I still need to reinforce the filing cabinet that I want to put the tank on. A 3/4" ply wood cover should be sturdy enough...


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm had pretty good experience with the regular hoods. I have a 10g with 2 27w cfl spiral bulbs in the hood. It grows the floaters/moss/ferns just fine!

That's crazy you redid your office during lunch break. I wonder what everyone thought!!


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Most people here know that I re-arranged my office to make room for a small fish tank. They still think I'm crazy, but they understand 

The 3/4" plywood cover for the filing cabinet is cut, and the spray paint on it is drying. I think tomorrow or Monday I'll bring the tank.

Still need to get little thing like a powerstrip and a timer for the lights. I'll go do that right now...


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

I am ashamed to say that I didn't do anything yesterday besides placing the plywood cover on the cabinet. I am not quite sure how I should make the whole move. 

Should I setup the new tank at home and then try to transport it with low water level? Or, should I bring all the different things to the office one by one and then set it up there. I don't know... maybe I'll move the tank and the plants over on Sunday night and some fishies on Monday when I go to work. I am planing on using 100% water from my old tank for the initial filling. I don't expect much of a cycle that way.


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

How about just leaving the filter in a tank at home, setting up the new tank at work, then bringing in a "seasoned" filter? -Just brainstorming here. I don't think there is a lot of bacteria just floating in the water.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Well the new filter is already built into the tank. I will seed it with filter sludge from my established tank anyway.
Maybe the water isn't so crucial to bring over from the old tank...


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Hey, I did it 

Check it out:


































Now, I actually went back to work tonight to set this up. After I came back home I then decided to clean the filter on my 55g and make up a nice bag full of disgusting looking brown yucky sludge. When I go to work tomorrow I'll dump that into the tank. That should do it for seeding. 

Obviously I have not done anything in terms of aquascaping. My strategy here is to get the filter cycled. I will also give the tank an initial dose of fertilizers. With 15w T8 I don't expect to have to dose much. 

Do you guys think it would be too early to put a few rasboras in later this week?


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Ok, I've got a problem. I think the powerhead in the tank is heating up the water...

I don't seem to be able to get the water down to below 78 deg. which is a little on the warm side for me... I would like to keep it more around 74...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I don't think 78 is a bad temperature, as long as it doesn't creep up to much past that, I prefer my tanks on the lower side temp-wise too, but 78-80 is the upper limit that i'm happy with as long as the temperature is stable, that's the more important thing. 

Also, I'd get the fish in there sooner rather than later otherwise all of those happy, healthy bacteria you transferred from your established tank will starve to death with no ammonia to feed on and you'll end up having to cycle the tank fresh. If you're seeding the tank, you need to feed the bacteria to keep them alive and thus avoid a major cycle. 

I'll be interested in following this thread, i'm going to set up my 10g tank again when I move and maybe i'll try this form of filtration since i have a little powerhead lying around 

*edit* i'm curious, is the glass frame strictly necessary? What if the sponge was fit in very snugly?


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

Is the back of the hood behind the light fully closed? Are there holes you can poke for HOB filters? If so, opening them up might allow for more evaporation, and might drop the temperature some.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Karackle said:


> I don't think 78 is a bad temperature, as long as it doesn't creep up to much past that, I prefer my tanks on the lower side temp-wise too, but 78-80 is the upper limit that i'm happy with as long as the temperature is stable, that's the more important thing.
> 
> Also, I'd get the fish in there sooner rather than later otherwise all of those happy, healthy bacteria you transferred from your established tank will starve to death with no ammonia to feed on and you'll end up having to cycle the tank fresh. If you're seeding the tank, you need to feed the bacteria to keep them alive and thus avoid a major cycle.
> 
> ...


Ok, you convinced me, I'll be bringing a small school of rasboras in maybe as soon as tonight...
The frame is necessary because you want to avoid any "leaks" allowing the water to bypass the filter. The flowrate in a HMF is very low as it is, but if the water can find it's way around the filter there won't be any filtration. There are HMF that just wedge a slab of filter mat into the side of a tank. in that case you don't need any glass frame. 



kid creole said:


> Is the back of the hood behind the light fully closed? Are there holes you can poke for HOB filters? If so, opening them up might allow for more evaporation, and might drop the temperature some.


That is a good idea. The temp is down to 76 after I turned the heater way down, which is good enough for me.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Yeah... fishies are in... as many as I was easily able to catch during my lunch break... 6 harlequin rasboras and one very old, half blind, waiting to die neon tetra, not sure how he will do, but he was easy to net...

I did forget to bring fish food in from home, but they will be ok for a day without food...


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Damn it... I think I have an oxygen issue... (low that is...)
Everyone is at the surface gasping... the neon is already dead...
I don't have an air pump in the office so the earliest I can do something would be tonight... hopefully these guys hang on until then...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

it looked from your pictures of the set up like the holes in the return tube were facing down, you could try facing them upward to get some surface agitation going temporarily.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Yeah I was thinking something like this as well, but someone... ahem, ahem... designed the filter compartment so small, that my hand doesn't really fit in there :icon_roll
I brought in the air pump from home for now and I will keep the air stone going when my colleague is not in the office. Maybe even put it on a timer and run it at night. 

I put it some ferts and excel today, which hopefully is going to get my "fast growing" stems to actually grow fast... somehow I ended up with 1-2 ppm ammonia in 2 days, which I find somewhat odd, but I'll see what it is tomorrow. Maybe I killed all my nice bacteria by not adding fish the same day...

I really thought I read enough posts on this stuff that I wouldn't have this much trouble. Oh well...


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Fish are going much better after a whole night of aeration. I also chopped and re-planted the plants so they don't fill the whole tank. Makes it easier to find the little guys. 

I forgot to mention that I also brought about 2 golf ball size portions of random mosses in that I want to slap in front of that filter. The water flow is doing a reasonable job keeping it in place at the moment. I will do some more arranging when I bring in more plants and wood next week. 

I actually realized that I will be away from this tank for a week. I am going on a 2 day trip to europe (don't ask, it will probably kill me) next week and to recover I'm taking Thursday and Friday off. I may have to go to the office in the evenings to check on things I think...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

the moss should have a lot of nice nitrifying bacteria to help with the cycle too which is good!  

Probably not a bad idea to go in to check on the tank a couple times if you can since it's so newly set up, if those stems start throwing out some roots though, that should help a lot!


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Yes I think I will do that. 

Looks like the temperature in the tank now keeps very stable at 75 deg without a heater. Probably a combination of the AC in here keeping the room constant and the pump putting in a very consistent amount of heat to elevate the temp.

I can't believe I am seeing any ammonia with the amount to sludge, the plants, the moss and the fish in there, but I took another reading just now. I am at a solid 2ppm ammonium and .25 ppm nitrite. Maybe the test kit is bad, too. I bought it when I set up my very first tank, I think 5 or 6 years ago... maybe I should go buy a new one, just to make sure...


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

Regloh said:


> Yes I think I will do that.
> 
> Looks like the temperature in the tank now keeps very stable at 75 deg without a heater. Probably a combination of the AC in here keeping the room constant and the pump putting in a very consistent amount of heat to elevate the temp.
> 
> I can't believe I am seeing any ammonia with the amount to sludge, the plants, the moss and the fish in there, but I took another reading just now. I am at a solid 2ppm ammonium and .25 ppm nitrite. Maybe the test kit is bad, too. I bought it when I set up my very first tank, I think 5 or 6 years ago... maybe I should go buy a new one, just to make sure...


Or, do what I do. Stop testing and admire the tank. With everything you put in there, it's going to be fine, IMO.

There's two possibilities here. Either your test kit is good, and you are seeing nitrites on day 2 of a new setup, meaning you will finish a small cycling in 4 days, or your test kit is bad and your tank is already cycled.


Are the fish acting normally?


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Yes they are now. They are still a little pissed off that I fished them out of the other tank with that ugly green net. I baited them into the net with some food, so now they seem a bit nervous about taking the food I give them, but it's already gotten much better. They swim around the plants in all levels of the tank. They certainly don't seem to be gasping anymore since I aerate. 

Actually I took a picture for you guys...


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## hamstermann (May 10, 2007)

Looks like they're happy! Thanks for keeping us updated on this.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Tank is looking pretty good! And the fish are definitely looking happy  Looks like the moss is hanging out right where it's supposed to also, very cool! 

Also, definitely have to agree with Kid Creole, if you're already seeing nitrItes, you're well on your way to a cycled tank, maybe hit it with a quick water change to bring the ammonia down a little, but if the fish are acting normal, i'd personally leave well enough alone and just enjoy


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Wow, has it really been 3 months since I updated this last? That means my other jornal has not been updated in even longer... shame on me...

So this little tank has been running pretty well.. One harlequin rasbora somehow didn't make it, but the other 5 look really happy. 

I brought in a java fern on some driftwood that looks way to big for this tank, but is seems to like the low light .. Problem is, it shades the rest of the tank and the sunset hygro is turning really leggy...
I just discovered some brown algae ( I think) on the leaves that are really close to the light, but other than that I have not had any algae issues. 

I started using the prescribed dosing of Excel along with some dry ferts, when I remember.. Over the holidays I didn't attend to the tank for two weeks, just had an automatic feeder setup with alternating fish food and plant ferts at night... but no excel... The plants didn't like that too much, but now that I am back at work more regularly, they seem much better...

The moss didn't make it.. there are still some shredds of it stuck to the filter matt, but the bulk of it is out... From what I hear around the forum, you can never count out moss, but I'll wait and see...

I will try to take some pictures next week.. my camera is at home...but this is my update..


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

*Shrimp added 1/25/2010*

The shrimp are here!!! Red Cherry Shrimp to be exact.

Still a bit pale from the 3 day trip across the country, but VERY lively... 
not a single DOA... I am very happy! Thanks epicfish for a great deal on the S&S. 

I was a little worried as my harlequin rasboras looked like they were going to go into a feeding frenzy, but they were just a bit startled bu all that activity I think. 

At least I didn't see any nibbling on shrimp 

I am having a really hard time focussing on work right now...which is why I am posting here 

I also bought some anubia barteri for this tank. 
I know they will get a bit too big I think, but we'll see. I think I now really have to start thinking about arranging some of these plants. It's kind of a wild disarray at the moment...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

WOOHOO!!! congratulations! That's awesome. 

Can't wait to see pics!


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

I should know better than to put shrimp into a tank that I havn't at least measured the ph. I think I am again off the scale as the peat moss in the substrate must have lost it's acidity...

The water in my area comes out of the faucet at over 9 and I suppose that's what the tank is at right now... I got two dead shrimp out this morning and only see one moving... The rest of the 20 could be hiding somewhere. I will have to treat some water before I do water changes next...


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

This may be a stupid question, but do Harlequin Rasboras eat Red Cherry Shrimp? I have not seen any in a few days... and a couple of the rasboras look like they are blown up like a balloon. 

I can't seem to be able to take a better picture with the camera I have here... I don't know enough about it to figure it out...


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## Taysius (Dec 23, 2009)

If the shrimp were small enough then that's probably what happened.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Ok, those bastards are going back home then, before I order more shrimp...


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Okidoki....
the next batch of shrimp spent the last 5 hours drip acclimating in a vase 

Thanks to epicfish, who once again managed to ship these guys without heatpack across the country without any DOA 

They are now in the tank, while the rasboras are in their bus home (glad container). I'll have them in the tank at home in a few hours... they will be much happier there anyway...

I also removed the huge java fern to take home... I had some offshoots that I attached to another piece of DW I bought a couple of weeks ago. 
I also attached some anubias to that. 
I am getting a crypt next week and maybe try some more moss for the filter wall. 

Here are some pics... sorry about the reflections. My office mate would not appreciate me turning the light off in the middle of the work day 










Veggie bits I threw in there for the weekend:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Looking good! Glad the shrimpies made it safely, they look good! Can't wait to see the plants grow in!!!


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks Kara...

I am quite the beginner at keeping shrimp and it shows... yesterday (after an unattended weekend in the office) I could only count up to 7 shrimp at a time... now keep in mind that the tanins from the peet under the gravel still tinges the water pretty badly and the gravel is also the about the same color as the shrimp. But I did see some floating shrimp parts  So I know there have been some casualties...

This morning I counted a lot more (11 or so) out of originally 20 (or so, I think epic always sends some extras). So I am a little more hopefull about keeping them alive this time... It certainly helps that they have the tank for themselves...

I have not dosed any fertilizers in the last few days, but after reading some heated discussions on that topic I decided to resume with my normal EI dosing and Excel. I will take it easy on the nitrates until the plants grow in some more though...


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

i have a 10 gallon for cherry shrimp also, sometimes i'm like 'WHERE THE HECK IS EVERYONE?' and i can only spot like 20 of them and sometimes there's like 40 all right there in plain sight. yours are prob especially hard to see against the tan gravel right now. 
could the shrimp parts you saw be molting? were they clear/white?

i dose excel, iron, and trace into this tank with no ill effects. PH 7, temp 73-74


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Keep in mind, shrimp will molt their old shells to grow new ones and a lot of times those molted exoskeletons can look like shrimp parts, so I would bet that's what you saw!  

RCS are pretty hardy, and they're really good at hiding, especially if they have just molted, so I bet your have even more in there than you think roud: 

Just make sure you supplement them with some fish food and / or an algae wafer if there isn't a lot of natural algae in the tank. 

Good luck!


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Karackle said:


> Keep in mind, shrimp will molt their old shells to grow new ones and a lot of times those molted exoskeletons can look like shrimp parts, so I would bet that's what you saw!
> 
> RCS are pretty hardy, and they're really good at hiding, especially if they have just molted, so I bet your have even more in there than you think roud:
> 
> ...


Yes I am hopeful, they are certainly getting less timid...I now (well today during the workday) frequently see free swimmers... I really should have chosen a different substrate... pea sized gravel has a couple of problems.. for one it is nicely matched in color to the shrimp , but it also is too course so that the shrimp food I bought falls down into the substrate... 
I actually saw one of the shrimp start "digging" and getting half into the gravel  I hope it was able to free itself again  I am thinking of putting a small dish in there and putting the food in there... would make it easier to make an estimate on the number of shrimp as well...

I also feed veggie bits (angelfoodplus.com) and sinking algae wafers from omega one.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

i try to drop the food onto the driftwood or moss for easy access


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Hmmm that's a good idea... too bad I just removed the DW that had nice horizontal faces on it 

I'm going to think about wrapping a flat rock in moss... I just don't have either at the moment, rock or moss


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

then just go with a dish.. they won't care what the food is on


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

Regloh said:


> The shrimp are here!!! Red Cherry Shrimp to be exact.
> 
> Still a bit pale from the 3 day trip across the country, but VERY lively...
> not a single DOA... I am very happy! Thanks epicfish for a great deal on the S&S.
> ...


so that's what happened to my shrimp :O nooooooo . l had bought like 10 and all were gone after a 2 week vacation. Well atleast now i know :biggrin:


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Awesome... I think I just missed one of my shrimps molting... I looked at it earlier and it seemed to be peeling a bit... at least that's what it looked like... 

Now I just saw a reeeaally pale shrimp and I also found a really red empty shell on the floor...

Excuse my giddiness, but I had not seen this before...


On a somewhat unrelated note, I discovered during a water change earlier this week, that my shrimp have figud out how to climp over the filter mat and into the area behind it... very unfortunate, as I don't know how many will get sucked up by the powerhead and get shredded... 
I will have to find a way to keep them out of there...


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