# Ideas for new 3.4 gallon



## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

I'm getting back into the hobby and I want to try doing a proper planted aquascape. And would appreciate ideas on the aquascape and setup.

>Aquarium is 11 inches high by 7 3/8 inches wide and 10 1/4 inches long.







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>Cascade 170 Internal Filtration System
>UEETEK 24 LED Clip
>Black sand
>Small driftwood branches
>Nutrafin Plant Grow
>Nutrafin Cycle(based on faith that it helps)

For stocking I'm thinking pea puffers or blue cherry shrimp.

Current: 1.6 gallon:







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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Move the betta into the 3.4g and put shrimp in the 1.6g. It's a lovely looking tank but much too small for fish.

Have you thought about plants for the 3.4g? I'd go with small plants to keep the scale, anubias nana petite and cryptocoryne parva, for example.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

I just bought that aquarium and its crap.
The aquarium itself is solid... but the top is super flimsy plastic (so i dont use it)
The pump is just junk plastic (many other submersed pumps that are better
That light is totally useless (even for low light).... and to shut it off you have to unplug it. So its a huge hassle.

I replaced the filter, and got the ONF light (I use the stock one for brine shrimp! lol). Its cycling now and Im doing a riparium.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Thank for the info. Guessed the light was crap so I bought the other one off amazon. And I'm going topless.

Do you or anyone else know of an aesthetically pleasing filter I could use? Do they make any out of tank filters with just intake and outtake?

Bump: I'm on the fence about the betta, she seems happy in that tank. I think if it's a smaller tank and its well planted, breaking up line of sight it's ok.

Great point about the size of plants.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> Do you or anyone else know of an aesthetically pleasing filter I could use? Do they make any out of tank filters with just intake and outtake?



There are many, many filters.... I use a different one in each tank. 'aesthetically pleasing' is a relative phrase. You could always go with ta fluval V type....

There are many, many filters.... I use a different one in each tank. 'aesthetically pleasing' is a relative phrase. 

I want to also add... your 1.6 for a betta is unfortunate. I agree with moving to the larger tank.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Updated equipment:
Fluval Plant Nano LED with Bluetooth - 15 Watt
Zoo Med Nano 10 External Canister Filter, upto 10 Gallons 

Additives:
Tropica 714 Nutrition Capsules 
Seachem Stability 
Seachem Pristine 
Boyd Vita Chem Freshwater

I've decided on one male dwarf puffer. And have blue dream shrimp in the 1.6 gallon. I'll find a longer tank for the betta.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Nitrate spike to 110mg/L. Did 50% water change, added tetra safe start and cleaned the filter with tank water. Removed any snails and tried to find some rotting snails, but found none.

Moved puffers and otto to betta tank. One of the puffers looks sick. Is there anything I can do to help him? What should I do about the display tank?


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Need more info:
- How many puffers did you put in the tank?
- What are other parameters?
- Are the puffers in a 1.6g with a betta?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

That tank is about the size of a ADA Mini S, so if you want some ideas you can do a google search on Mini S Aquascsapes. In terms of filters, you could really use any small HOB or if you want a canister you could go with an Eheim 2211.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Betta is not in with the 3 puffers.

I only have a nitrate testing kit.

The fluval black sand is a little over 1.5" deep on this 3.4 gallon. Too deep?

Bump:


Asteroid said:


> That tank is about the size of a ADA Mini S, so if you want some ideas you can do a google search on Mini S Aquascsapes. In terms of filters, you could really use any small HOB or if you want a canister you could go with an Eheim 2211.


Thanks man, I got the zoo med 10g canister. I love how small and out of the way this filter is. Plus its got lots of room for bio media.


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## JJBTEXAS (Jul 8, 2013)

I would suspect an ammonia spike followed by nitrite spike, then finally nitrate. 3 dwarf puffers is going to be too much bioload on a 3.4 gallon. That's also nearly not enough space for them as they can get a bit aggressive. That tank isn't big enough for even one of those IMO.

Bump: I would suspect an ammonia spike followed by nitrite spike, then finally nitrate. 3 dwarf puffers is going to be too much bioload on a 3.4 gallon. That's also nearly not enough space for them as they can get a bit aggressive. That tank isn't big enough for even one of those IMO.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

Too much bioload IMO. I have a couple of endlers, a niritie snail baby, and shrimp in the same tank.... I used a lot of stone, so I decreased the amount of space considerably.... but I think that is all that tank should hold.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

JJBTEXAS said:


> I would suspect an ammonia spike followed by nitrite spike, then finally nitrate. 3 dwarf puffers is going to be too much bioload on a 3.4 gallon. That's also nearly not enough space for them as they can get a bit aggressive. That tank isn't big enough for even one of those IMO.
> 
> Bump: I would suspect an ammonia spike followed by nitrite spike, then finally nitrate. 3 dwarf puffers is going to be too much bioload on a 3.4 gallon. That's also nearly not enough space for them as they can get a bit aggressive. That tank isn't big enough for even one of those IMO.


For sure, I'm only waiting for them to be old enough to sex and then rehome the other two. It's just weird that the nitrates went from 3-5 for so long and then to 110 all of a sudden.

Bump:


livebearerlove said:


> Too much bioload IMO. I have a couple of endlers, a niritie snail baby, and shrimp in the same tank.... I used a lot of stone, so I decreased the amount of space considerably.... but I think that is all that tank should hold.


Good point about the stone, maybe I can't afford to give up that space. 

I was going by the one inch per gallon rule. The puffer will be one inch and the otto two inches max.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

Nitrates to 110 um eep....? I thought that was a typo. What test are you using? 
What about your other parameters? Nitrites, ammonia, pH?


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

livebearerlove said:


> Nitrates to 110 um eep....? I thought that was a typo. What test are you using?
> What about your other parameters? Nitrites, ammonia, pH?


Nutrafin, I don't have tests for ammonia and ph. I need to get the other tests I guess.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> Nutrafin, I don't have tests for ammonia and ph. I need to get the other tests I guess.


Yes, at bare minimum: pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates.... (the API test should cover all of this with the test tubes in one kit). KH/GH are big ones as well especially since you are abroad and water can be complicated.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

livebearerlove said:


> freshwaterguy4u said:
> 
> 
> > Nutrafin, I don't have tests for ammonia and ph. I need to get the other tests I guess.
> ...


I'm going to order the API 5 in 1 test strips.

I'm on Vancouver Island, BC.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> I'm going to order the API 5 in 1 test strips.
> 
> I'm on Vancouver Island, BC.


I would order the drop- not the test strips. The strips will put you in the 'ballpark' the drops will be 'on the base' (my baseball terms are terrible.... lol)


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## JJBTEXAS (Jul 8, 2013)

Test strips are only good for spot checking at best. For troubleshooting you'll want the liquid test kit.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Ph 6.6

Ammonia 4.0 ppm


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> Ph 6.6
> 
> Ammonia 4.0 ppm


Ammonia NEEDS to be 0... 4ppm will kill your fish 
Did you cycle your tank before adding the fish?


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

livebearerlove said:


> I would order the drop- not the test strips. The strips will put you in the 'ballpark' the drops will be 'on the base' (my baseball terms are terrible.... lol)





JJBTEXAS said:


> Test strips are only good for spot checking at best. For troubleshooting you'll want the liquid test kit.





livebearerlove said:


> Ammonia NEEDS to be 0... 4ppm will kill your fish
> Did you cycle your tank before adding the fish?


I put a used filter in the tank for a week and used bio media from the cycled tank and left it for a week along with all the tanks. Used tetra safe start and nutrafin cycle. The was only 3 months old, so maybe it wasn't cycled even though nitrate readings were low.

I rushed it because I was optimistic about the powers of old media(not that old) and bacteria supplements.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

3 months it should be cycled....
but if you used chlorinated water at any time... that could have killed the good bacteria. USually my tanks tanks take 2-4 weeks to cycle. But im diligent with dosing ammonia, etc. 
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20
....is what you should be testing all the time. 
I had a friend who kept having issues : algea blooms, etc. Turns out, they scrubbed the stones/gravel under the tap water.... they also cleaning the filter regularly (every month) with tap water.... which meant they killed all the good bacteria... and in essence were starting the cycle all over again. Fish kept dying, everything was stressed.


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## Cinnamonamon (Oct 24, 2018)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> I put a used filter in the tank for a week and used bio media from the cycled tank and left it for a week along with all the tanks. Used tetra safe start and nutrafin cycle. The was only 3 months old, so maybe it wasn't cycled even though nitrate readings were low.
> 
> I rushed it because I was optimistic about the powers of old media(not that old) and bacteria supplements.


I wonder if you actually starved the bacteria -- as I understand it, if you use cycled media you should be feeding it immediately. I don't know how long it takes for it to die, but if it was in there for a week with nothing to eat, you aren't really maintaining a cycle, I don't think...hopefully someone more experienced/knowledgeable will chime in on that one. In any case, good luck!


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Cinnamonamon said:


> I wonder if you actually starved the bacteria -- as I understand it, if you use cycled media you should be feeding it immediately. I don't know how long it takes for it to die, but if it was in there for a week with nothing to eat, you aren't really maintaining a cycle, I don't think...hopefully someone more experienced/knowledgeable will chime in on that one. In any case, good luck!





livebearerlove said:


> 3 months it should be cycled....
> but if you used chlorinated water at any time... that could have killed the good bacteria. USually my tanks tanks take 2-4 weeks to cycle. But im diligent with dosing ammonia, etc.
> pH: 7.6
> Ammonia: 0
> ...



I never use untreated water. I clean the filters with aquarium water. Isn't 20 nitrate too high?

Maybe I didn't add food for the bacteria and the older tank was never really cycled. Nitrates were never really high for the older tank.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

How often do you 'clean' filters?
By 'untreated' do you mean you do something to the tap water? or do you use a bottled water? (im troubleshooting here... as your ammonia is deathly high- granted you have a high bioload, but that should be rectified quickly if the filter is ideal)

20ppm nitrates is not too high in a planted tank as the plants use it. High is 80ppm....


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

I clean filters every two to three weeks. Maybe I just left it too long with water changes and didn't remove the dead snails. I removed three or four dead snails. I started just cracking the snails open and letting the puffers chew on them for a day.

I treat with seachem prime.

Sadly one of the puffers is going to die. I really wished I had evacuated them earlier.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> I clean filters every two to three weeks. Maybe I just left it too long with water changes and didn't remove the dead snails. I removed three or four dead snails. I started just cracking the snails open and letting the puffers chew on them for a day.
> 
> I treat with seachem prime.
> 
> Sadly one of the puffers is going to die. I really wished I had evacuated them earlier.


Dead snails is also a sign..
That seems way to often to touch your filters.... I touch mine about every 2-4 months. even then, no 'cleaning' just ensuring there is not too much buildup.

Please do water changes until your ammonia reaches 0... otherwise you will lose all the fish.....
I would do 50%- then 20% every hour till your ammonia is 0. This will be a painful lesson.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Puffers and otto are in the betta tank and the betta is in the snail breeding tank. Ammonia has gone down a bit and I've removed two more rotting snails that the puffers had killed. I'm going to just crush the snails from now on instead having them with the puffers to hunt.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Very sad to read through the earlier posts. 

Larger tanks give more leeway for things going wrong. Imho both your tanks are overstocked and I’d replace them with larger ones. Either way, I hope things work out for you.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

New scape

Bump:


Thelongsnail said:


> Very sad to read through the earlier posts.
> 
> Larger tanks give more leeway for things going wrong. Imho both your tanks are overstocked and I’d replace them with larger ones. Either way, I hope things work out for you.


Thanks. I could definitely upgrade to something bigger later on. I'm going to try and balance it out by using more plants. I know the water chemistry is harder to balance on smaller tanks, but it's still just 2 - 2.5 inches of fish to 3.4 gallons.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Kind of hard to tell but I see no water surface movement at all, not a good thing. Helps with gas exchange including purging ammonia and adding oxygen. I’d cut spray bar about 3 holes over from left end, reconnect with piece of rubber hose as a coupling and point those 3 jets more up towards surface of water so that you get the brisk rippling surface movement you need. 

I’d also get some more floaters, at least temporarily till things settle in. Cover about 1/3 surface with them.


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## Cinnamonamon (Oct 24, 2018)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> Puffers and otto are in the betta tank and the betta is in the snail breeding tank. Ammonia has gone down a bit and I've removed two more rotting snails that the puffers had killed. I'm going to just crush the snails from now on instead having them with the puffers to hunt.


I'm somewhat new to fishkeeping (it has been about a year since I started my new job which included fish care), so I'm still learning (a LOT) from reading everything I can online & in books, along with copious amounts of youtube videos -- so please don't feel guilty about doing research on what I (or anyone) suggests!

When it comes to how many fish will fit in a small tank, please remember that you are looking at two things -- one is how much waste the fish will produce, and the other is how much space a fish will need to swim in and be happy. From what I can suss out, the fish-per-inch thing is mostly to do with how much waste a fish will create. The question of the fish's happiness (or level of stress?) is dependent on the size (and dimensions) of the tank (longer is pretty much ALWAYS better than taller), the set-up of the tank (plants/rocks/hiding spots/broken up lines of sight, etc.), the number & species of tankmates, etc. 

So while a well filtered tank (especially one with plants) can definitely handle the bio-load of just a couple small fish, the fish's happiness (i.e. their stress or lack thereof, which will affect their behavior -- like hiding all the time, etc. along with their lifespan) is the concerning part. Obviously this varies wildly by species. From what I've read pea puffers are okay alone in a small tank, as would a single betta. Both of these fish are considered rather aggressive though, so you may be signing up any tank mates to a life of constant harrassment. From what I've read, ottos do best with at least a few pals of the same species (for true "in nature" behavior, 10-15 is suggested -- in a MUCH larger tank of course). Other recommendations for this shy fish are plenty of hiding spots, and easy access to algae, which they prefer to eat off plants. Other than ONE website that claimed 1 otto in a 5 gallon was fine, I've never seen smaller than a 10 gallon recommendation for an otto (up to 4 ottos, 1-2 websites claimed), and most suggest 20 gallon tanks. 

As with all things, look at the behavior of your particular fish, because maybe it will work out fine, but you may want to transition some of your species to other tanks. Personally, I'm a fan of using nano tanks primarily as shrimp tanks (bonus: higher numbers are perfectly fine in a shrimp tank -- and they're super entertaining!), though you'll need a well aged tank in order to be successful (I see 6+ months as a minimum recommendation, though I had an okay amount of success starting my shrimp earlier).

In any case, your tank is lovely, and I'm enjoying watching it's evolution -- good luck!


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

+1 on additional floating plants while you're sorting out your parameters, although you'll still need to keep up with very regular water changes.

The inch per gallon rule is very outdated - if you compare 10 inches worth of neon tetras and a 10 inch oscar, there's a huge waste disparity despite there being the same number of fish inches. A good aid in working out stocking is aqadvisor as it calculates the waste produced by fish of certain species, and also takes into account behaviour etc. It's not perfect, but it's a good baseline.

Puffers are messy fish, so although they're small, they still produce large amounts of waste for their size.

Did you order test kits and have they arrived? If so, what are your parameters?

What size tanks are all your fish in now and what's the exact stocking of each? How are the fish doing?


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Cinnamonamon said:


> I'm somewhat new to fishkeeping (it has been about a year since I started my new job which included fish care), so I'm still learning (a LOT) from reading everything I can online & in books, along with copious amounts of youtube videos -- so please don't feel guilty about doing research on what I (or anyone) suggests!
> 
> When it comes to how many fish will fit in a small tank, please remember that you are looking at two things -- one is how much waste the fish will produce, and the other is how much space a fish will need to swim in and be happy. From what I can suss out, the fish-per-inch thing is mostly to do with how much waste a fish will create. The question of the fish's happiness (or level of stress?) is dependent on the size (and dimensions) of the tank (longer is pretty much ALWAYS better than taller), the set-up of the tank (plants/rocks/hiding spots/broken up lines of sight, etc.), the number & species of tankmates, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback man! The problem was I purchased this equipment based on info that 3.4 is the minimum tank size for the dwarf and the one inch per gallon rule.

At this point I will monitor the fishes behavior(glass surfing/hiding) and heavily plant the tank. I've got 10 gallon canister filter with some awesome biomedia so water quality should be good.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Is the 10 gallon canister filter cycled? If not, water parameters won't be good unless you're using specialist media that neutralises toxins.

Fish behaviour is only indicative of water quality problems once they're so bad that they're causing stress. Please do get a water testing kit from a reputable brand.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Thelongsnail said:


> +1 on additional floating plants while you're sorting out your parameters, although you'll still need to keep up with very regular water changes.
> 
> The inch per gallon rule is very outdated - if you compare 10 inches worth of neon tetras and a 10 inch oscar, there's a huge waste disparity despite there being the same number of fish inches. A good aid in working out stocking is aqadvisor as it calculates the waste produced by fish of certain species, and also takes into account behaviour etc. It's not perfect, but it's a good baseline.
> 
> ...


Two dwarf puffers and otto are in 1.5 gallon due to ammonia emergency. Nitrate and ammonia are 0 in that tank. Shrimp and snail tank readings are also zero for both.

In 3.4g nitrates are at 60-80ppm and ammonia .25ppm.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)




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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

I'm glad you have tests now. Are you testing for nitrite too?

If rehoming the fish is not an option, please be sure to do at least 50% water changes in both tanks every day. Ammonia and nitrite should always be 0 and even .25ppm would be enough for me to do a large water change. The same for your nitrate levels - earlier in this thred you said that you believe nitrates should be much lower than 20ppm. There's some leeway in this - some people aim for 20ppm for their plants, some say up to 40ppm is fine. I personally keep mine below 20ppm, almost always below 10ppm, and often 0-5ppm. The vast majority of people will say that 60-80ppm is much too high though.

It sounds to me that the 3.4g is at least partially cycled, but not the 1.5g.

Assuming that you have the betta in the 3.4g, the *nitrates are still too high and the ammonia much too high*, but she will probably survive in the short term. You should still do 50%+ water changes every day or she will suffer long term damage.

Dwarf puffers are more susceptible to water quality issues, and as previously stated, are messy fish. *If you will not rehome them or put them in a larger tank immediately*, then 70%+ daily water changes will be *necessary*. You will see an ammonia spike, followed by a nitrite spike as the tank cycles, and I would be very surprised if this does not result in losses. The smaller the tank, the higher the levels of toxins, as there is less water to dilute them. I will also be very surprised if you do not have issues of aggression between the puffers in a tank that size. All puffers are relatively intelligent fish that require space to explore and to build their own territories, dwarf puffers are not excluded form this. You are not providing these requirements.

If larger tanks are not an option, even a large bucket or plastic box will be better for the fish than such small uncycled tanks.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Thelongsnail said:


> I'm glad you have tests now. Are you testing for nitrite too?
> 
> If rehoming the fish is not an option, please be sure to do at least 50% water changes in both tanks every day. Ammonia and nitrite should always be 0 and even .25ppm would be enough for me to do a large water change. The same for your nitrate levels - earlier in this thred you said that you believe nitrates should be much lower than 20ppm. There's some leeway in this - some people aim for 20ppm for their plants, some say up to 40ppm is fine. I personally keep mine below 20ppm, almost always below 10ppm, and often 0-5ppm. The vast majority of people will say that 60-80ppm is much too high though.
> 
> ...


The two small tanks have cycled gravel and filled with java moss from someone elses cycled tank. I think that's why the water parameters are fine, but I'm hoping I can get the 3.4g cycled so I can move the fish to a bigger tank.

Aggression is an issue with the puffers in such a small tank, mostly when they are feeding. I can't really tell which one is the male yet, but the smaller one has more vibrant colouration. But sometimes it's colours are just as dull as the other one so I'm not sure. Once they get old enough, I'll rehome the female.








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the tyger analysis line by line[/IMG]

I'm going to have to get some algae waffers because there are so many algae eaters in that tank.

Blue dream shrimp
Rams horn
Small pest snails

And 6 of these, I'm not sure of the type:
https://images.app.goo.gl/9bDga6FMBb9k446P9

Bump:


livebearerlove said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mS7ly4dP5o


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Be very careful with algae wafers as they will pollute a tank that small.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## Cinnamonamon (Oct 24, 2018)

Just an FYI, it is recommended that with mystery snails you keep them 1 per 2.5 gallons for adults. With good filtration & feeding, I've put more than that in a tank (I let some eggs hatch out, so I was stuck with HUNDREDS), but 6 in a 3.4 gallon is going to be VERY crowded unless they are very little. Adults get to around 1-2 inches in shell diameter, easily within a year, under good conditions. They poop a fair amount, too...


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> And 6 of these, I'm not sure of the type:
> https://images.app.goo.gl/9bDga6FMBb9k446P9
> 
> Bump:
> ...


Not sure of the otto? the shrimp? or the nerites in my tank?
Those snails have plenty too eat..... no need for algeawafer


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

livebearerlove said:


> Not sure of the otto? the shrimp? or the nerites in my tank?
> Those snails have plenty too eat..... no need for algeawafer


It's fun to to feed them sometimes, they've already made the tank spotless. I split the algae wafers into small pieces.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

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Does this look alright? I'm thinking of covering the branch in creeping moss and gluing the Bucephalandra sp. midway up the branch. Also gluing anubias nana to the other stone.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Buce would look great halfway up the branch. I think the stone on the right would look better lay down though.

How are all the fish?


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Thelongsnail said:


> Buce would look great halfway up the branch. I think the stone on the right would look better lay down though.
> 
> How are all the fish?


YEA, was going to say same thing, rock on right looks kind of forced in there. Lean it over to left and kind of use it to push branch up against other rocks. Then use taller plants along back right to balance it out. Think you went a tad overboard on floaters also.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Thelongsnail said:


> Buce would look great halfway up the branch. I think the stone on the right would look better lay down though.
> 
> How are all the fish?


Good idea, I'll lay the rock down put the buce half way up the stick. I'll going to cover the rest of the stick in weeping moss.

Also ordered:

Rotala rotundifolia
Gratiola viscidula

And purigen for the water, it's turned murky now, I don't know whats going on.

Bump:


DaveKS said:


> YEA, was going to say same thing, rock on right looks kind of forced in there. Lean it over to left and kind of use it to push branch up against other rocks. Then use taller plants along back right to balance it out. Think you went a tad overboard on floaters also.


The floaters are just a temporary attempt to control nitrates. Plus I want to grow them under the fluval nano while I can.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> The floaters are just a temporary attempt to control nitrates.


Water changes and correct stocking are the best way to control nitrates!


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Thelongsnail said:


> freshwaterguy4u said:
> 
> 
> > The floaters are just a temporary attempt to control nitrates.
> ...


I know, but it was still cycling. It just went down to 5ppm nitrate and the cloudiness is a bacterial bloom.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> I know, but it was still cycling. It just went down to 5ppm nitrate and the cloudiness is a bacterial bloom.


Well that’s what I was referring to above, it only takes a few high functioning floating plants to make a big impact in a very short time. They also use ammonia so to many of them can quickly give you zero ammonia and zero nitrates. About 1/3 the amount of those would probably been about right.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> freshwaterguy4u said:
> 
> 
> > I know, but it was still cycling. It just went down to 5ppm nitrate and the cloudiness is a bacterial bloom.
> ...


Wow, I didn't think they had that much impact on the water. 

I'm still going to see how heavily I can plant the tank to keep it stable, but still looking good.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

I'm thinking of just getting an ADA rimless tank for the puffers and putting the shrimp in the 3.4g. I'd put the Zoo med canister on the bigger tank and use the the sponge filter for the smaller shrimp tank.

Not sure whether to go with:
5g
14" x 8.5" x 10" 

Or

10g
18" x 11" x 12" 

The filter is rated for a 10g, but I like to have the tank over filtered.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

10g... 10g is not 10g after substrate/hardscape, etc. At least mine are not.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

10g! A larger tank with adequate filtration is still better than a small tank with over-filtration. Lots more space to aquascape too


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Sold the farm and took out massive aquascaping loans for my 1" fish.


Cube Garden 45-P is a frameless 10 gallon tank
Current USA 18"-24" Satellite Plus PRO LED 
Seachem black flourite sand
Lava rock
Various plants, flame moss, christmas moss and two weeping mosses that look completely different.

I may have an aglae bloom in my 3.4g, so I got some excel.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

What about having the anubias and lava rock being the center piece of the 10g and mosses and dragon stone being the center piece of the 3.4g?


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

Moved the blue dreams in along with the otto. Put a sock of the filter for the shrimplets.

Nitrates are zero

Using purigen now and dosing .3 ml of flourish excel daily.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

Nitrites 0- good. Nitrates 20ppm for plants. OR you're not cycled yet...


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

livebearerlove said:


> Nitrites 0- good. Nitrates 20ppm for plants. OR you're not cycled yet...


I'm putting the blue dream shrimps first for this tank so I'm going to keep the nitrates close to zero as not to shock the new shrimps. There's planaria in the tank now along hydra anemones so I have three weeks to keep there population down before planaria zero comes in the mail.

What planaria do to shrimp is like the worse sci-fi movie you've ever seen.


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## Pythos (Feb 4, 2019)

freshwaterguy4u said:


> What planaria do to shrimp is like the worse sci-fi movie you've ever seen.



That's why some endlers or other small shrimp friendly fish should be in there with them. The Fish will wipe them out in no time.


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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)




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## freshwaterguy4u (Apr 6, 2019)

General hardness is 80 mg/ppm according to the fluval test, but it doesn't give reference to what that number means?

never mind. It says it's slightly hard, but is this good for blue dreams?


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