# How do i fishless cycle?



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Read the section on "Cycling the Aquarium" in my Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus in the simplydiscus.com forum. Here's the link:
www.forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus
It'll give you step by step directions.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Add plants and do routine water changes, never any issues in 35 years and I've bred many species.
Use old sponges and media from established tanl, old tank water to seed new tank etc.

Stock slowly and do basic maintenance, there never has been a reason to really do FC. I fail to see any need or reason to do it in the hobby.

So many suggest it without thinking it through.


----------



## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Not everyone has access to seeded media, old tank water, or plants that have come from an established tank. If someone feels more comfortable doing a fishless cycle I see no reason to discourage it.


----------



## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Here are a few more links to help you out:

http://www.algone.com/aquarium-articles/technical-aquarium-information/fishless-cycling

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...ks-for-your-fastest-fishless-cycle/Page1.html

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php


----------



## kizzabennett (Nov 30, 2010)

how do i preform a fishless cycle?


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

wendyjo said:


> Not everyone has access to seeded media, old tank water, or plants that have come from an established tank. If someone feels more comfortable doing a fishless cycle I see no reason to discourage it.


Agree wholeheartedly !
And there are several other very good reasons to do so, no to mention the ultimate safety of the method, as far as your fish stock is concerned.
And btw, for those anti-fishless cycling, old tank water in & by itself will do absolutely nothing to assist in building a bio-filtration colony. Old tank water has insignificant, or NO, bb in it at all.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Gravel, plastic plants and other items from a cycled tank will have BB but I agree, water has very little to no BB on it and if its coming from a fully cycled tank, the only thing it will have is nitrates which will do nothing to the tank but help build up nitrate levels faster.

I find the best way is use media from another filter, take a canister filter and squeeze out some sponges onto the new filter, brown sludge from the bottom, that's good too.

You can try and find someone in your area that has a good filter running that would give you a few squeezes. lol.


----------



## jdm68 (Jun 2, 2011)

kizzabennett said:


> how do i preform a fishless cycle?





wendyjo said:


> Here are a few more links to help you out:
> 
> http://www.algone.com/aquarium-articles/technical-aquarium-information/fishless-cycling
> 
> ...


You have several answers. Use the links.


----------



## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Add plants and do routine water changes, never any issues in 35 years and I've bred many species.
> Use old sponges and media from established tanl, old tank water to seed new tank etc.
> 
> Stock slowly and do basic maintenance, there never has been a reason to really do FC. I fail to see any need or reason to do it in the hobby.
> ...



I myself dont cycle my tanks fishless. adding a small amount of ur gravel from a cycled tank to ur filter or to a new tank creates rapid bacterial growth since the new tank doesnt have competing growth. my sons tank cycled in 3 days with fish by me soaking a filter pad in the water. it was a 10 gallon low bio load but ive cycled my 29 gallon the same

each has their own method, neither is wrong, one just takes less tiime


----------



## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Fishless Cycling*

Hello kizza...

A few years ago I did it like this: Got a large tank, light, substrate, power filter, heater and air pump with an air stone. I set it up, filled it and planted it real well. I turned everything on and let it run for a month. I didn't do anything else. Except, I did admire my planting job. Anyway, after 30 days, I bought a few small guppies and I was done.

That was a few years ago, seven tanks and several hundred Fancy Guppies and assorted Corydoras later.

Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy.

B


----------



## Miira (Feb 15, 2011)

As long as you stock it slowly, you shouldn't need to fishless cycle. I also keep guppies, and bought 1 male and 3 females and I let them breed the tank full.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

wendyjo said:


> Here are a few more links to help you out:
> 
> http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php


This one contains all the info you will need, IMO. Good find wendyjo. Not sure about the other two, only familiar with this 1. Good luck.

Almost forgot, LOTS of people add their fish, just a few, after filling and allowing their tank to run for two days and have been very successful. Be careful not to add too much food though. Watch and make sure the fish eat the majority of it. After 3 or 4 weeks you should be able to add the rest of your inhabitants, as long as you aren't adding 20 fish. That could be fatal. If you are adding that many you need to add a little at a time, 5 or so, every week. Do not do what most people do and get fish you dont want in order to cycle your tank. 

If you are hellbent on fishless cycling just add some food to the tank. Do 30% wc's a week and add some more food and after 3 or 4 weeks you should be ready. Don't forget to do an 80% wc 2 days before you get your fish.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

wendyjo said:


> Not everyone has access to seeded media, old tank water, or plants that have come from an established tank. If someone feels more comfortable doing a fishless cycle I see no reason to discourage it.


This IS a planted Forum:wink:
Sort of goes with the territory.

I can sell water sprite, I cannot sell the end products of Nh4 too easily in liquid form. Cost about the same as NH3. 

If you live anywhere NEAR a LFS, there's old tank water, there's seed media.
Since few live so far out.......that they cannot get to it.........it's not likely......and plants can easily be mailed and plant roots are loaded with bacteria.

Water changes, Good habits, vs playing with a cycle that will take about 1-2 months seems like a simpler and better method no matter what mud you can sling at the plants, basic care for the aquarium.

Once the fish are there, the bacteria levels level off anyway. You gain little even without the plants.

Toss some fish food in there, do not do a water change for a 1 month, then do a few big ones, then add fish.

Why complicate it?

Why not use plants like floating water sprite?

I am not one for dogma, and this is one of topics that smacks of it.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

discuspaul said:


> Agree wholeheartedly !
> And there are several other very good reasons to do so, no to mention the ultimate safety of the method, as far as your fish stock is concerned.
> And btw, for those anti-fishless cycling, old tank water in & by itself will do absolutely nothing to assist in building a bio-filtration colony. Old tank water has insignificant, or NO, bb in it at all.


Safety?

Did I suggest putting fish in without good frequent water changes?
Hows about after the FC is done?

Then what? No water changes?

Water changes are easy and a good ethic to have regarding fish and their health, and it's a darn good idea to have new folks in PLANTED tanks to do this for the first 1-2 months, ADA, myself, many others strongly suggest this. 

Old dirty tank water works dandy, ultra clean water, maybe not.......dirty filter water is perfect however. It adds PRECISELY water is missing from a mature established filter.

It does not get any faster and better than that. 

Plant roots are covered with bacteria as well, and the plants directly remove and sequester NH4 waste from fish=> the silent cycle.

You pro fishless cycling folks do realize that this is a planted forum correct???? Water changes, zeolite, there are many simple solutions that do not require test kits or NH3. Nor that take 1-2 months (That alone makes the suggestion much easier and faster).

Who likes to test NH3, NO2 and NO3?
Anyone get into the hobby to do that?


----------



## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Many people DO NOT have an actual fish store near them, and the larger chains will not give you seeded media or gravel. They might give you a bit of water but personally I don't want any water from a Petco tank. I live in a large Metropolitan area but there is not much selection as far as fish stores go. And many parents are not going to go out of their way to drive their kid to a store that may be an hour away so he/she can get some "bacteria". Alot of parents just aren't that supportive of their kids hobbies.

Many people DO NOT purchase plants online. Many people here are kids who may not have access to funds or bank accounts or paypal, or their parents don't want them ordering things from online stores or giving their addresses out to strangers on a forum. And if their only local store is a chain store then they are probably going to end up with some plants from a plastic tube. At my local chain store the few live plants they have that are not in tubes are in tanks with no fish in them that are not tied into the main filtering system. They are attached to driftwood or in pots. I doubt those plants have much in the way of beneficial bacteria on them.

My point is that there is no reason to discourage someone from doing a fishless cycle just because you don't do it. Doing a fishless cycle doesn't mean that the person won't do water changes once the tank is stocked - why would you even assume something like that?


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

I've been fishkeeping for over 50 years myself, kept many tanks at once, and bred a number of varieties of fish over the years, and I find it rather disappointing that some learned and experienced "old hands" would give newcomers advice that could clearly result in a very unfavorable outcome. 

The sad fact is that many newbies will not do all of the things necessary to successfully launch a new tank the way it has been suggested here - ( frequent wcs - gradual introduction of fish stock - live plantings, etc., and end up with a poor outcome) - it's occured so many tens of thousands of times since the hobby began.

I have seen and heard of many disasters of people using seeded media & substrate samples, etc. taken from unknown/unhealthy sources, (particularly from LFS's) and ended up introducing parasites or other harmful pathogens that wiped out their livestock.

Those who advocate fishless cycling recognize the dangers involved for newbies to fly with potentially unsafe methods of cycling, because they don't have the knowledge or experience, and don't know what precautions & steps to take, nor what to look for, to ensure things are moving along safely - yes safely !

So yes, there is no good reason to discourage those new to the hobby to undertake a FC.


----------



## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

I've said this before in a similiar thread, but I'll say it again. I learned ALOT doing my first fishless cycle. Seeing the spikes and then seeing them level off truly helped me to understand how the cycle really worked. Testing the water helped me understand my water chemistry. The whole process was a learning experience and when it was done and cycled I felt quite pleased with what I had done and what I had learned.


----------



## dwc13 (Dec 15, 2010)

Tastes great. Less filling. Regardless, it's Miller Time. :biggrin:


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

wendyjo - The last paragraph in your post #16 is right on the mark - I was thinking the same thing just before you posted it.
At any rate, dwc 13 probably has a point - it's Miller time.


----------



## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

One thing I've learned from being on this forum... Dont question Tom Barr. He not only has experience but is smart, has performed many tests with recorded data, has many in depth articles on different areas of aquarium science, and is always trying to help out. 

We all have good intentions when trying to help out and we all have different approaches to get the same reaction. If you question and argue against someone who has different ideas than you, how will you ever learn more? The OP needs to come to his own conclusion by listening to many different ideas. Not just yours alone. I think that all of your ideas are correct and work well. 

"Wisdom is the reward you get for a lifetime of listening when you'd have preferred to talk."


----------



## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

I will respectfully question anyone who cannot be flexible in their way of thinking. Saying that everyone should have access to seeded filter media and aquatic plants from an established tank is arrogant and out of touch in my opinion. Obviously not everyone does.


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

wendyjo said:


> I will respectfully question anyone who cannot be flexible in their way of thinking. Saying that everyone should have access to seeded filter media and aquatic plants from an established tank is arrogant and out of touch in my opinion. Obviously not everyone does.


 
Precisely my sentiments. IMHO, one can't take a 'cavalier' attitude when dealing with & responding to newbie questions - it can get them off on the wrong footing - and this is said respectfully - notwithstanding the great reputation of some of the gurus.
"Nuff" said.


----------

