# Compost tank



## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Setting up a 10g dirt tank with 2" compost from the middle of a leaf and stick pile. I have 1 1/2" sand ontop of the compost, didn't add water yet. Wanted to know if thats to much sand or not? I don't have alot of plants to put in it yet but I'm putting Java Fern (Windelov) along with another type of Java but not sure of the type that has all kinds of babies on the leaves and just want to let them do their thing, in my 55g they will probably get sucked into the canister filter but the 10g will have a sponge filter. Then a couple strands of this and that that came with the plant package I got off here and see how they do. Hopefully get down to lake Erie and see what kind of plants I can find. If I can net some minnows or baby fish while I'm at the lake they will go in it once it is cycled. Any suggestions, tips etc. would be helpful. Thanks Mark


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Your tank will be much like my Toxic Ten tank. 1" to 1"1/2" sand cap should work well.

I would strongly suggest using established filter media from a current tank, initially plant as heavily as you can and include fast growing plant to suck up excessive nutrients like hornwort, wear lettuce, duckweed. The floaters can be eliminated after you get established.

Good luck, I'll be looking forward to a journal thread on this one. I really appreciate people that experiment a push the envelope. Projects like yours help the hobby evolve.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Ya I've been following your toxic ten tank, sorta what gave me the idea to do the compost tank. The compost I'm using I keep night crawlers in for a fall and winter acouple years ago. I do have plenty of hornwort to put in the tank but with that I'll have to figure out what plants I have that will grow low light to put under it or just weigh it down along the back of the tank. I'll have a 18w T8 I think 6500k bulb for light. Just got it 2 months ago and already forgot the k temp LOL. Probably do DIY CO2 too.

I pulled 1/2 of sand out lastnight so gasses won't build up to bad and will pull a filter out of a hob to run in a hob for a week or so to help get the tank and sponge fitler established. I didn't even think about cycling with a old filter beings it's going to be plants only for awhile, Thanks. I'll post some pics when I get some plants in it but it'll be a while, need to smoke up a wild turkey along with other alot of other exterior work today


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

i'd suggest just float the hornwort while your main plants get established. That will help prevent an Algae invasion initially. 

What I do is as the hornwort grows cut a long section of new growth off and discard some of the old growth. Some people say Hornwort has an Allelopathy effect on some algaes, if that's true I would thing cutting would speed that up. Also cutting stimulated new growth.

I've noticed at a point the insane Hornwort grow will level off, that's when I strait removing it from the tank. I'm sure it's related to the cycle, I don't own test kits. 

I use stuff like nylon cord or para cord and run it across the top of the tank in front of my HOB and simply wrap the hornwort over it. It grows well in the stream and doesn't drop it's leaves. In my 20L Q-Tank tank I have the submersible heater power cord running along the surface and the hornwort is wrapped over it. Again this can all be temporary fix.


Congrats on your Turkey! Bow or Shotgun?


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks Shotgun 9" beard about 18 lbs, 15 yard shot. Thank for the info


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Planted some plants. No Hornwort yet though


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Monitor the ammonia. As the compost settles into life under water there may be quite a spike. This is great for getting a fishless cycle started, but do not add any fish until the substrate has quit releasing ammonia. If there is little to no ammonia, then I would add some to feed the bacteria until the colony is established. A fishless cycle takes about 3 weeks if you have no source of bacteria to seed the filter. It goes faster if you can share some media from an established tank. The compost will probably have a fair amount of these bacteria, too. They are not exclusively under water species.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

I put an established filter on it after I filled it with water from my 55g (had to do water change today anyways LOL) Going to take daily test readings to see how it progresses. No no fish for a while. WOW look at the babies on the Java leaves. Not the best pic but you get the idea.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

If the substrate does not produce ammonia, add some to keep the bacteria alive.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Today I have 0.25 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 80+ nitrates and pH 8.0 where yesterday I had 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates and 7.2 pH but the water came out of my 55g with CO2 so ph would have been off. But cycle looks to be starting.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Diana said:


> If the substrate does not produce ammonia, add some to keep the bacteria alive.


 Will do, usually I drop a sliver of raw fish in the tank and let it rot but with the compost I shouldn't have to. A while back I put some in a glass with some water and got ammonia, nitrites and nitrates within a couple days.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Is it green compost? Can you still tell what the materials were? If so, then they will provide some ammonia, and apparently have, since the bacteria that came with the filter appear to have turned it all (well almost all) into nitrate.
If it is so well composted it is practically dust, then it will not be decomposing enough to keep the bacteria alive, and the nitrate may have come from the compost itself. There are nitrifying bacteria living in the compost. 

Keep on adding ammonia, it looks like they are almost out of food (.25ppm ammonia is only an hours' worth of food to a good colony of bacteria)


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

The ammonia is just starting to build up. I think the nitrates came out of the filter itself, I pulled it out of my brothers filter and he don't do water changes, he just tops his tank off when needed. You can see some leaf paticals after I sifted the bigger stuff out of it (Sticks and stones), it looks like good top soil after sifting it. Will do some ammonia if #'s aren't up in the morning


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Todays reading Ammonia .50, nitrites 0, nitrates 160+, ph 8.1+, kh 4 and gh 13. I think I need to pull the old filter and load the tank with hornwort to lower nitartes, darkest red I've ever seen a nitrate test.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

speerwashere said:


> Todays reading Ammonia .50, nitrites 0, nitrates 160+, ph 8.1+, kh 4 and gh 13. I think I need to pull the old filter and load the tank with hornwort to lower nitartes, darkest red I've ever seen a nitrate test.


Good idea :wink:

Text book/googled theory advice is nice for conversation. I'll take real word advice from someone that has actual experience every time.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

As you can see I have plenty of it in my frogs tank LOL, just have to figure out how to do it so that the plants still get light. Any ideas?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I have a spiral CFL in a $8 clip-on shop light I got from Home Depot I use on temporay tanks. The whole thing under $12?

Most of my plant grow out tanks sit under 4" shop fixtures.

Not pretty but they will grow plants. I save the $$$ for the display tank.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

DogFish said:


> I have a spiral CFL in a $8 clip-on shop light I got from Home Depot I use on temporay tanks. The whole thing under $12?
> 
> Most of my plant grow out tanks sit under 4" shop fixtures.
> 
> Not pretty but they will grow plants. I save the $$$ for the display tank.


 So your saying move the plants to another tank then add the hornwort? I have 8 of the same bulbs coming either today or tomarrow and have a few of the clip ons. The thing is I hate to pull them out of the compost tank and stir things up. Will the plants get the light they need if I shine it through the glass?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

No, I'm saying just dump the Hornwort in that tank. Yje plants already in will be fine don't pull them. The concept is overload the tank with plants as the cycle runs. You'll know status as you watch the hornworts grow spike they slow down.

Unless you have extremely high light demand plants you'll be fine.

The clip-on is just an on if needed. I might not have mae that very clean, sorry about that.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Well I moved all plants to one side (corner) and put hornwort at the back and one side. Some is hooked on a suction cup up top and some is weighted down. This will allow light to get to the plants and the hornwort. Thanks for the advice Dogfish, I did this before seeing your recent post. I also put a small pond pump in the side with the plants towards the hornwort in its place better.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Only change in numbers today is nitrates dropped to just below 160 ppm, so looks like removing the filter and the extra hornwort is working


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Well nitrates back up over 160ppm and ammonia is staying at 0.50 but nitrites are 5.0+ ppm.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Nitrites 5.0+ and nitrates 160+ and 0 ammonia so I added some high ammonia worm dirt in a fiter bag and put it in the filter housing and a raw shimp to keep ammonia level going. New pic attached, looks like it's time to trim the hornwort.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Todays pic, I took out the hornwort and added a few other plants. Nitrites and nitrates still off the chart so started doing 50% water changes yesterday.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Ammonia up to about 5 ppm is OK for the bacteria, but they do not like it much higher. Some plants do not like much ammonia, either. The plants you have seem to be OK with it. 

Nitrite the same: Do enough water changes to keep it under 5 ppm. Bacteria growth really slows if it gets higher. 

Do not worry about what the nitrate is doing. 

I would set up the tank the way you will want to run it when you add fish or other livestock. If you cycle it now with excess plants, then remove the plants there will not be as large a bacteria colony to handle the fish waste.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Sounds good thanks. When the #'s are right my Corys are going in it, had the female lay eggs today but my Angel got all or most of them.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Nitrite # dropped to 0.50 before a 50% water change so it must be close to being cycled. After the water change it's just over 0.25 so fish will be going in as soon as Nitrates are down, they are still 160+.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

While the ammonia and nitrite numbers are still doing things the tank is still growing bacteria. Keep on feeding them the ammonia. (3 ppm is a good amount of ammonia)

When the bacteria can remove all the ammonia overnight and the nitrite is also 0 ppm the next day it is cycled. 

You will need to do a really big water change to get rid of that much nitrate.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Poking around in the tank today and I get lots of bubbles everytime I put my finger to the bottom of the substrate. Is this normal? I syphoned off about 1/4" of the sand to see if it will gas off.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Pulled all plants out and syphoned 75% of the sand out yesterday. Mixed the soil and sand together and could not beleive all the trapped gasses (1 1/2" of froth on the surface), let sit over night and topped with 1" of gravel. Now to let the tank clear up and replant, I have some of the plants floating in the 10g and placed the rest in the 55g till probably tomarrrow then replant time for the compost tank. Had alot of stuff floating after mixing it, so that could have been what caused the gasses. I just didn't trust putting Corys in when I would touch the sand and get gas bubbles everywhere I touched.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

You used a high organic, "hot" compost. Yes, it's going to outgas.

Mine did. 

It's really not the problem the "chicken littles" will claim it is.

I don't think you have corrected your perceived problem. The way to
be sure you have no further bass would be to mineralize the mix. Ie. lay it out in the sun to dry. Wet it with a hose, stir it around, dry in the Sun again 2-3 cycles will do it.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

DogFish said:


> You used a high organic, "hot" compost. Yes, it's going to outgas.
> 
> Mine did.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dogfish, I'm hoping the large gravel will allow the gasses to exit the dirt where the sand was trapping it. But if your right (probably are) I'll either give your method a shot or go with an iron rich clay and mineralized topsoil capped with Eco. The thing I was worried about was corys getting gassed while feeding because I could just touch the sand and gasses would excape and I could see them getting mouthfuls of gas.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

Well I have baby albino cories in this tank now, been in there for four days. The Petco gravel is large enough that the babies hide in it and I see a bubble here an the of gas making its way through.


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## speerwashere (Feb 24, 2012)

A video of the baby albino cories in the compost tank. I took the sand out and repalced it with gravel so the gas bubbles would go to the surface and right after I got done the cories were getting busy so I didn't have the time to plant it to good 
http://s684.photobucket.com/albums/vv201/mwspeer/?action=view&current=babycories.mp4


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