# Nitrate Levels



## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

First thing I would get is either take some water to the LFS and have them test it or get another test kit. If your nitrate test kit is close to a year old just get another one.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I knew you were gonna say that Rex. I'm telling ya I tested it tonight. Mixed up a batch of stock solution and tested it in a bucket. 

Then again.. I don't think you've been wrong in the past.. maybe I will just order a test kit. Or email AP and tell then mine doesn't work and try to swindle a free one. :twisted: You suggest the Red Sea right? Might as well order a phosphate while I am at it.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

If you know your stock solution numbers are good and the test kit matches those numbers then your test kit is good. And get a Red Sea brand test kit. They work much better at the lower levels. 

What's the fish load like in the tank? Are you over feeding?


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Umm.. fishload is;

2 Angels, 4 Zebra Danios, 4 Bloodfin Tetras, 1 Tetra, 2 Neons, 4 Ottos and 4 SAE 

As for over feeding I really don't think I am. I feed once a day enough for them to eat everything in like 30seconds or so.. maybe a 45seconds tops. The fish still eat my plants. 

It's odd.


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## g8wayg8r (Dec 24, 2003)

Is the color scale for the Red Sea kit different enough to distinguish the small differences in nitrate concentration? I alway have a devil of a time deciding where the color in the vial falls on the chart.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

For me it is.


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## Shakey (Dec 7, 2003)

Vinlo is your NO3 test kit a very high range test kit? I ask cause in the past I have seen NO3 kits that test up to some insane NO3 levels, I am assuming cause in fish only tanks its possible for NO3 to go though the roof.

Anyways getting back to the reason I asked is cause if its a very wide range then since your NO3 is not truely 0 it goes to the first possible color variation, and showing you ~5ppm when in fact its only just a trace/ almost 0 but not = 0.

Well this is only a guess on my part, maybe someone else could chime in on weather or not this is a possibility.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

It's an AP test kit. Tests from 0 to 160ppm. Is there such an item as a low range NO3 test kit? Like you said us plant geeks have to reason for one that goes above 20-30ppm.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

My experience: The AP test kit hardly lets me distinguish between 20 and 40 ppm, the Red Sea test kit between 0, 2.5, 5, 10 ppm and with a little effort I can guess 7.5 ppm as well.

I exchanged my first AP test kit because I thought it had gone bad... but the second one wasn't any better. Get the Red Sea one, and make sure it is not expired. It can test higher ranges as well, using distilled water.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The Red Sea is a good inexpensive low range test kit. If you have the $$ get a LaMotte.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

This is the Nitrate kit your talking about right?

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/skus/te/TERS-20145.asp?L+scstore+kczg5448ff2df62d+1073359032

I was just curious because the package says Nitrate II on it, is there a I?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

That box looks much different than mine but it's the same test. I'm betting that the picture is a piece of very old clip-art.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Err.. I hope so. It's the same pic as Big Als.. I hope I ordered the right thing. :?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The description is correct. Red Sea just did a design change on their boxes in the past year or so. And they only make ONE nitrate test kit. Check out their web site and see.


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

My AP Nitrate test kit has never registered a reading....

So I did a test...

in a half glass of dechlorinated water...
Registered 0

Added
1 cap of .15 - 0 - 0 Nutrifin Plant Gro. (1 cap is normally for 10 gallons)
Registered 0.

Added
1 cap of Flourish (1 cap is for 60 gallons)
Registered 0.

Added
a 1 Tbs of Miracle Gro (1 Tbs is for 1 gallon)
Registered 0 (miracle gro is blue so the color chart changed)

How long do these tests last ?? Mine is probably 2 years old.

I really dislike Red Sea tests. The colors are so hard to read.
I have the Red Sea Oxygen, co2, and iron tests and I think the readings are garbage.

The AP Kh, PH, High Ph, Nitrite, and Ammonia tests still seem to work. I just recently cycled a tank.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Yep, your test kit is probably expired. They usually last a year or two, but who knows how long it was on the self before you bought it... Lots of test kits have experation dates, but I have never seen a AP kit with one. However I have a old PH test from AP that is probably 4 years old and reads the same as one I bought two weeks ago :shock: ... It probably has to do with the agents in a nitrate kit that cause them to fail with time. I had an expired nitrate kit and I couldnt get it to read either, bought a new kit and it reads fine.

The Red Sea Test kits are good. I actually like the test kits from Seachem the best, but that is just my opinion... Tetra makes a nitrate test kit as well, but I havent tried it yet and have never heard it mentioned on this board. 

my two cents
Jason


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

I'm doing a blackout period now because of algae I cant defeat...

I've always thought it was caused from high phosphorous.

Tonight my hagen PO4 kit arrived and it says its 0.25 out of the tap and 0.0 in the tank (with PhosZorb).

Tonight I also proved my nitrate test is junk.

Whew...busy day. 

My water must have high Nitrate.
To the store, I must go.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I have found that at most an AP test kit will last a year. And I love the Red Sea test kit because it does measure lower levels quite well. But if you have a bit of color blindness it would be hard to read.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

The next company to invent a NO3 and PO4 test kit with a longer shelf life is going to make a killing.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/category.xml?category_id=1611;ppp=9;page=2;sort=;pcid1=;pcid2=

Has anyone had experience with seachem NO3 and PO4 kits. They are about $2 cheaper a piece than Red Sea and look to be just as high quality - measures in very little increments. Between Red Sea which Seachem, how do expiration dates and readability compare?


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

I have a seachem no3 kit and it is very hard to read the color differences. They give you a scale from 0-10 I think and it is a pink scale, starting from light pink going to dark pink. Red sea is much easier to read.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Well I just got my Red Sea kits and well let me tell you, I am about to pull out my GD hair!! 

The kit looks just like the link I posted earlier..

It comes with 3 bottle and some powder. Two different kinds of tests.

I do the test with just the liquids and i don't see anything in the tube (slight blueish-green tint to it)

I do the second test (with the powder) and it reads ~10ppm. I am ready to throw these test kits out the window man.. it's ridiculous.. I just wanna test for some NO3.

I feel your pain Jason..


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> Well I just got my Red Sea kits and well let me tell you, I am about to pull out my GD hair!!
> 
> The kit looks just like the link I posted earlier..
> 
> ...


Vinlo,

Seems we share a common battle... I get the same results with the Red Sea tester except mine didnt come with any powder reagent, only 3 liquid reagents where you add like 5 drops of A and B and 8 of C... 

I now have four different testers telling me four different readings.... :evil: I dosed dry pure KN03 so I know my reading should be @10ppm assuming full solution into my tanks water column.

Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Man alive, I just added a few kernels of KNO3 to the 5ml of water in the test. I added 5drops 'a' - shook, 5drops 'b' - shook, waited 5 minutes, added 10 drops 'c' - shook, waited 5 minutes.. the damned thing is still clear!?!?!?!?!?!?! What in the world?

The thing that really chaps my ass is the instruction say the method number 2 (stated above) is much more accurate than the powder mehtod?!?!

On the plus side, my new Red Sea phosphate kit is really easy to read.

So I figure my NO3 is somewhere between 0-10ppm I think. Lucky I got these kits. :shock:


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Now the color on the Red Sea nitrate color strip for nitrates at 5ppm is gray. Are you sure your reading on your kit clear and not gray?

Mike


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Base color on my RedSea tester is blue/green for 0ppm...
Gray/purple for 2.5ppm and a pink for 5ppm


Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Man, if it is grey it is a super light grey. Do you hold the tube right against a white background or the recommended 8"?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

We might all be talking about different test kits... let's be careful!

I am pretty sure the 5ppm on my Red Sea test is not gray, but a light pink.

Also, there is no powder in mine, and I don't have to wait five minutes before adding the third liquid (acetic acid).

Are ya'll sure it's nitrate we are testing for?? They must have changed something recently in their test kits then...


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest said:


> We might all be talking about different test kits... let's be careful!
> 
> I am pretty sure the 5ppm on my Red Sea test is not gray, but a light pink.
> 
> ...


I have the same kit as wasser... Vinlo, your kit sounds different.


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

I bought a new Nitrate Red Sea test just a bit ago...

Same problem.

Tested flourish water. Zero.
Tested Plant Gro water. Zero.

Shook bottle A for 5 minutes trying to get the metal filings incorporated.
Still Zero.

The box is the "new design" so I would think it's not expired yet.

$16.00 at Petco down the tubes.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I think, Nitrate NO3 (nitrate ion)? that's the same deal isn't it? I obviously have a different kit that wasser and wellbiz. But Momo's sounds like it might be the same as mine. 5ppm is grey.. dark grey on the card. This is driving me nuts. Red Sea office is close.. I just called.

edit: 

Pedietz, you have the same on as the link I posted earlier?


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Alright, something wierd is going on here with these test kits... Now three people with the same experience!!!!!


I put a call into redsea earlier, waiting on a call back from one of there techs... Probably be tommorow.... I will let you know what I find out.

Vinlo, you guys must have the new kit, mine must be the old one. http://www.redseafish.com/Product.asp?dir=&catID=89&subID=39&proID=194 is the link with my tester and you can even see the colors of the card for determining the level.


Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

To be honest with you I think I got screwed over man. The phosphate kit I got was the new style and the Nitrate kit was the old style. I just notice they had a expiration date on the bottom of the boxes. Phosphate says 05/05 (I think), the Nitrate say 04/02 either that is Feb. 2004 or April 2002. Either way I think I got screwed. I will be making some phone calls tomorrow for sure.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> To be honest with you I think I got screwed over man. The phosphate kit I got was the new style and the Nitrate kit was the old style. I just notice they had a expiration date on the bottom of the boxes. Phosphate says 05/05 (I think), the Nitrate say 04/02 either that is Feb. 2004 or April 2002. Either way I think I got screwed. I will be making some phone calls tomorrow for sure.


According to RedSea the last time I called April 2002 which of course explains your problems, but still not mine  
My new tester has an 2005 date on it.


Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

If it is april 2002 I am gonna flip on the guy over at Mops.ca, piss poor. Man I just noticed my box has their old logo too. Piss poor.


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

The white-style box is the new one.

The solid-color version that says "mini-lab" is the old one.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Everytime I'm about to order something this forum stops me! I don't know if thats good or bad...lol. I guess I'll drop new Red Sea NO3 kits since they made them worse. I contemplated buying Seachem's NO3 but someone said they are horrible to read. 

Any NO3 tests that work? - thats a funny question to be asking!
I'm not sure what people are saying about the Red Sea PO4 kit, is that still fine?


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> If it is april 2002 I am gonna flip on the guy over at Mops.ca, piss poor. Man I just noticed my box has their old logo too. Piss poor.


Should be date 00-00 First digits are month, last are year.
Jason


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Rolo737 said:


> Everytime I'm about to order something this forum stops me! I don't know if thats good or bad...lol. I guess I'll drop new Red Sea NO3 kits since they made them worse. I contemplated buying Seachem's NO3 but someone said they are horrible to read.
> 
> Any NO3 tests that work? - thats a funny question to be asking!


I like the Seachem kits, they arent bad to read in my opinion at all. I still stand by the RedSea testers and recommend them, they are easy to read. Still might be a simple problem or as they say operator error. I will know for sure when I talk to RedSea tommorow. Dont let my problem stop you from buying one.


Jason

Edit: pedietz, was yours the new or old???? 
Edit; Opps  I see you had the new tester


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I think the RedSea Phosphate kit blow the Hagen one out of the water. Simple to read (not like the Hagen one.. varying shades of light blue?!?). I would order the ReaSea again.. just one that isn't expired. :?


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## JLudwig (Sep 9, 2003)

LaMotte kits work. End of story. $50. For those with color comparison problems they ship with eight test tubes filled with precolored liquids in a neat black box with a light diffuser on back. there is absolutely no guessing, they resolve down to 0.25 ppm N which is ~ 1ppm NO3. 

You'll find your NO3 is much higher than you think, I can gaurantee that much. You'll stop adding so much, your red plants will color up and algae will slow down. 

I'm on a quest to find a person who has a tank that actually uses 2-3ppm a day NO3, measured by a LaMotte kit. I held a tank which had 4.5wpg at 80ppm CO2 (measured by Pinpoint probe) every other fert in excess, I can only manage 8ppm NO3 weekly, this is with no fish... 

The kit is worth every dollar... something that works properly is infinitely better than something that gives the wrong result. For those who complain or balk at the price, IMO bad test kits are worse than no test kits at all. Good products cost money.

Cheers,
Jeff Ludwig


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

After more research, I've figured out my problem...

I went to Lowes and bought some GreenLight Stump Remover.

Put a 1Tbs in 100ml of water and measured directly.

Its showing 5.0 ppm Nitrate with my 2 year old Aquarm.Pharm tester.
Its showing 50+ ppm Nitrate with my new RedSea test.

Rejoice...a reading !! Really skewed readings at that....

So my testing in the past with Flourish, PlantGro, and MiracleGro, must have been too weak to register anything.

Now, I have to figure out which is accurate, and if I want to risk using GreenLight. I think I'll buy some of the new Flourish Nitrogen online instead.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

1TBS in 100ml of water should have been off the chart(1029ppm), not just 50ppm... :shock: 

Why not use the stump remover... Green light is pure KNO3 and you can use http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm to figure out a dosage.... Or buy some KNO3 online for usually a few dollars or less a pound... Of course flourish is good too.. 


Jason.


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

> Why not use the stump remover... Green light is pure KNO3


Mainly this article...

http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200211/msg00153.html


I used the calculator and got the PPM down to a decent level in a 1 gallon bucket.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Makes sense to me... I have never used green light myself. But know I know.... Thanks for the info...

Jason


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Rolo737 said:


> Everytime I'm about to order something this forum stops me! I don't know if thats good or bad...lol. I guess I'll drop new Red Sea NO3 kits since they made them worse. I contemplated buying Seachem's NO3 but someone said they are horrible to read.
> 
> Any NO3 tests that work? - thats a funny question to be asking!
> I'm not sure what people are saying about the Red Sea PO4 kit, is that still fine?


Check this out, they rate all the kits and RedSea is probably the best, you be the judge. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=96


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## g8wayg8r (Dec 24, 2003)

Just like I always suspected. Accuracy is a real issue for ALL of the kits tested. I don't think the analytical test labs have to worry about losing business to these kits. But that's OK, too. The kits do have some useful purpose for common folk because they are indicators. It may be best to white-out all of the numbers on your test kit and simply use the colors as a guide to tell you when things are OK and not OK.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

> If the nitrate level rises at a rate of 5 mg/l each week (20 mg/l a month), then over the course of a year, 52,000 mg of nitrate would accumulate. A monthly 25% water change would remove a total of 48,000 mg per year, so 4,000 mg of nitrate would build up during the year, taking the nitrate level up to about 100 mg/l. A 25% water every three weeks on the other hand, would remove 69,320 mg over the year, so the water changes would reduce the overall nitrate level of the tank water to about 60 mg/l.


Gotta love that bit


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Now if only I could get one of these
http://www.greenair.com/hanna/93728.htm

Or even better yet.
http://www.berryhilldrip.com/HannaC200.htm

And then even more toys
http://www.hoskin.ca/html/sam/watr_qual/nitrate_ite.html


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## g8wayg8r (Dec 24, 2003)

You have to love that 11 sensor sonde, which can monitor - temperature, pH, ORP (redox), dissolved oxygen, conductivity, salinity, depth & vented level, ammonium, nitrate, chloride, PAR, and both turbidity and chlorophyll. It looks like something that fell off the end of a Borg's arm. Cool.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Well, after much hard times and faulty test kits (what's that Rex? You told me so?? :lol: )I think I have finally received one that works. The folks over at MOPS sent me out a new SeaChem nitrate kit in place of the RedSea one they sent out that was expired (really great place to deal with). 

Great thing about the Seachem test is it comes with a stock 10ppm solution to be certain the kit works - mine does. Only thing I don't like (but I do at the same time) is the sliding scale.. can get difficult to read at times, but it appears easier to infer number like 3.5, 4, etc..

Check my tank and it is crazy low on the nitrates.. and I dose 5ppm yesterday. Hmm.. better dose some more tonight. 

I guess my problem was test kits all along.. go figure. Jason, you ever get a working kit?


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo,

My AP kit is right on the money. I got the new Seachem reagents today, but have not tried to test with them yet. RedSeas, tech is doing some research...  So far everyone I talked with is great. Looks just like a wierd occurance with the test kits... I still recommend both RedSea and Seachem products... Plus I found out they have great customer service.


Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Yeah I would definately reccomend SeaChem and RedSea kits to the folks out there. I was laughing.. I guess PetCo in the states (I think there is one by you) has 10% off Redsea test kits this week.. I was gonna go get one. :lol:


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> Yeah I would definately reccomend SeaChem and RedSea kits to the folks out there. I was laughing.. I guess PetCo in the states (I think there is one by you) has 10% off Redsea test kits this week.. I was gonna go get one. :lol:


All I have close to me is a PetSmart and LFS... I really like the PetSmart, has a good selection of fish...

Jason

Edit, New reagents from Seachem work great. Test read same as my AP kit....


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

So now that I think my test kit works I was wondering..

I have a relatively heavily planted tank, 30g, hp CO2 w/ power reactor, 2.5-3.0 wpg? (60w 2x odno) - with good reflector. How much NO3 do you think my tank could run through in a day? I have added amounts of KNO3 from a hydroponics store (1/4 - 3/8 tsp each day for two days) and have only measured minimal amounts of NO3 the next evening (24 hours later). Does this seem correct? PO4 is @ ~1ppm maybe a little less.

Thanks.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Nordic said:


> Now if only I could get one of these
> http://www.greenair.com/hanna/93728.htm
> 
> Or even better yet.
> ...


Yeah, I'd love a few of those little gadgets. You know how much those Ion Selective Electrodes cost, though? $200-$300 a piece and you need a specific one for each particular parameter to test (nitrate, phosphate, etc.). And that's just the electrodes - you still need a reader on top of that. 
Would be nice not ot have to use test kits any more, though!


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I think the Hanna 200 is $700 and its quite powerfull too, but you still need to buy the chemicals I think


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> So now that I think my test kit works I was wondering..
> 
> I have a relatively heavily planted tank, 30g, hp CO2 w/ power reactor, 2.5-3.0 wpg? (60w 2x odno) - with good reflector. How much NO3 do you think my tank could run through in a day? I have added amounts of KNO3 from a hydroponics store (1/4 - 3/8 tsp each day for two days) and have only measured minimal amounts of NO3 the next evening (24 hours later). Does this seem correct? PO4 is @ ~1ppm maybe a little less.
> 
> Thanks.


Seems odd... What level are you dosing too(e.g ppm), and what does it drop too? I would suspect a drop in other nutrient along with the NO3. Do phosphates drop? In my 120gallon, I only see a change of 1-5ppm over the entire week.... :shock: 

Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Hmm.. I dose about 5ppm each time. I am going to do a w/c dose to the right amount and monitor this week.. see what is going on in there. I'll figure this out yet.. :?


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

So my battles continue. 

I dose 1/2 tsp of KNO3 to my 30g.. should result in something like 15pppm of Nitrate. I waited 2 hours and test my tank.. test kit reads nothing. What is that all about?

Is it possible that the KNO3 isn't breaking down properly in the water column? As usual I am at a loss. Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> So my battles continue.
> 
> I dose 1/2 tsp of KNO3 to my 30g.. should result in something like 15pppm of Nitrate. I waited 2 hours and test my tank.. test kit reads nothing. What is that all about?
> 
> Is it possible that the KNO3 isn't breaking down properly in the water column? As usual I am at a loss. Any help is greatly appreciated.


As I understand it that should not be an issue. Your not going to like what I have to say, but have you tried a different test kit? :shock: I just cant see 15ppm going anywhere that quick. Have you done the same test, with a 5gallon bucket of fresh(not tank)water? That way we can tell if it is your tank or the test.... Use chucks calculator and add to @20ppm worth of DRY KNO3 and wait two hours and test. Should still read @20ppm two hours and even two days later.

Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

See, that is why I question it. Seachem tests provide a stock solution of 10ppm of Nitrate. I tested that to ensure the test worked - it did. I'll try the bucket deal see where that gets me. Thanks.

EDIT:

Upon reading your post again, you put enphasis on DRY KNO3, does it matter that I disolve it in a little bowl before hand? I really can't see that effecting it's potency..


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> See, that is why I question it. Seachem tests provide a stock solution of 10ppm of Nitrate. I tested that to ensure the test worked - it did. I'll try the bucket deal see where that gets me. Thanks.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Upon reading your post again, you put enphasis on DRY KNO3, does it matter that I disolve it in a little bowl before hand? I really can't see that effecting it's potency..


I stressed Dry because I didnt know if you had mixed up a solution and were dosing to 15ppm using so many Millileters of the solution. Just trying to take all the error possiblities out of the equation. I just take a measuring spoon and dose dry right to the tank, on in your experiment the bucket.  What kind of bowl? Hopefully just a plastic one, no metal!

So does your Seachem kit stay clear... Never turns Pink? You are adding one drop of liquid reagent and one spoon of powder reagent? How long are you waiting for color to change? :?: 

Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

It turns slightly pink, maybe like a .1ppm on the sliding scale. Then it turn yellow after 8-10 minutes. It's ridiculous. I really shouldn't have this much difficulty with this.. it really pisses me off.

Edit:

I just notice on my KNO3 package it has a Guaranteed Analysis it is as follows..

Nitrogen (N)... 12%
Soluable Potash (K20)... 44%

Is this the same as everyone elses? What is in the other 44%?? I notice on Chuck's website that his breakdown was NO3 61.3% and K 38.7%? Could this be the problem?


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> It turns slightly pink, maybe like a .1ppm on the sliding scale. Then it turn yellow after 8-10 minutes. It's ridiculous. I really shouldn't have this much difficulty with this.. it really pisses me off.


Yellow! :shock: :shock: :shock: I agree there should not be this much confusion... I have never had mine turn yellow. It starts to fade after about 20-30 minutes, but keeps its color. Suspect about that kit, dont want to say it, but I would buy a AP or tetra kit from the LFS and just see how they compare... Assuming your bucket tests the same as your tank. Does the test solution stay solid pink or does it fade to yellow too :?: 


Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Test Solution is dark pink, for as long as I left it in there. Well.. it's not yellow and it's not pink.. it's like a super light pink-yellow. I honestly don't know if I will but another kit.. I've dumped way too much cash into these gawd dam kits.. I could have bought one of those fancy digital testers by now (well.. not that much).


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo,

It just sounds wierd to me... Keep me posted on what happens....


jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> I just notice on my KNO3 package it has a Guaranteed Analysis it is as follows..
> 
> Nitrogen (N)... 12%
> Soluable Potash (K20)... 44%
> ...


The missing percent are made up by the O's of NO3. No problem :mrgreen:

If you add a certain amount of KNO3 and you DON'T get the expected results, don't keep adding. Something else could be wrong... don't want to overdose your tank. 1/2 tsp in 30 gal water should raise NO3 by 10 ppm (in addition to what's already in there). Just be careful.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Yeah, I've stopped adding it. I am currently testing all my kits (seachem, ap, and hagen).. of which all three give different results. I think I may just buy yet another kit.. what the hell.. it's only money right? Pfft.. friggin' test kits.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Seems like you need a Red Sea kit :twisted:


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Hahah.. that's rich. I had one of them too. It was expired though.. might have to try it again. Soon as it stops snowing in my area the hunt will continue.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> I just notice on my KNO3 package it has a Guaranteed Analysis it is as follows..
> 
> Nitrogen (N)... 12%
> Soluable Potash (K20)... 44%
> ...


Ok, Vinlo your problem is not test kits and is your "KNO3." What is this stuff your using? Whatever it is it isn't KNO3 if it yields N and K2O...real KNO3 dissociates into K+ and NO3-, plain and simple. Nitrate test kits get all out of wack if their is considerable N in the water, no wonder your having problems, plus N is fully beneficial to few plants and evaporates into the air.

My suggestion, you've spent to much money on good test kits so don't get any more; that seachem is a great one and you have already proven it works with the test solution. BTW, to grow plants you do not need test kits just some good ferts. Get some pure KNO3, here's a good source... http://plantgeek.net/store.php

Really, I'm very curious about what this "KNO3" you have now, where did you get it, does it come under some brand name? It most definately can't be KNO3 if it produces K2O and N...someones messed up some simple chemistry...ticks me off! :x :roll:


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The label is required to list % of nitrates in fertilizers. I have seen labels that say many different things but they are all fairly close. 

I just checked the bag of KNO3 I have in the garage. The label states 13-0-46, 13.7% N Nitrogen, 46% K2O, Potassium Oxide. Very close to what Vinlo has. And this label is very consistent with the dozens of bags I have seen. And I'm sure that the KNO3 that I have is chemically the same as what Greg Watson sells and the same that can be found at the Plant Geek store.


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

Rea Sea is a waste of money, and their techinical help people knows it and makes up stories so we consumers dont complain...
and for $16.00 at that.

Buy a Aquam.Pharm Nitrate kite for 5.99 from PetSmart.

Seachem is coming out with a Total Nitrogen test kit that measures 3 kinds of Nitrogen levels.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I have had much better luck with the Red Sea test kit than I have had with a succession of AP kits. And if you are paying $16 for a test kit your shopping skills need to be upgraded. Also the AP test kit is great for fish keepers but lousy for plant keepers as it's resolution is not fine enough.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I've tracked down a redsea kit (had to go states side to get it). Ordered some KNO3 from gregwatson ($2 I can afford). I'm waiting til I get the new KNO3 from greg to continue dosing/testing. 

As for my KNO3 I bought it from a hydroponics store in my city. Homegrown hydroponics is the name of company. It came in small beads not a powder form. I was wondering if the polymer/whatever they use to make the beads is effecting is solubility? Then again my game is architecture not science.. so I am really way out of my neighbourhood here. The link to the products is http://www.hydroponics.com


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Rex Grigg said:


> The label is required to list % of nitrates in fertilizers. I have seen labels that say many different things but they are all fairly close.
> 
> I just checked the bag of KNO3 I have in the garage. The label states 13-0-46, 13.7% N Nitrogen, 46% K2O, Potassium Oxide. Very close to what Vinlo has. And this label is very consistent with the dozens of bags I have seen. And I'm sure that the KNO3 that I have is chemically the same as what Greg Watson sells and the same that can be found at the Plant Geek store.


Unless I have just lost all my chemistry know-how, KNO3 doesn't dissociate into N, K2O, and some 40% mystery matter. There must be some strange additive or process which it was made if it does that. KNO simply dissociates into the ions K+ and NO3-. Am I missing something here?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

You are right. But it's a government required label. KNO3 is going to break down into K+ and NO3-. Don't question government requirements. The mystery matter on the government label is the rest of the oxygen.

Vinlo, the small beads are called prills. And AFAIK they don't use any polymer to prill the KNO3. They heat it up and spray it from a "prilling gun". The main reason this is done is so the fertilizer will more easily flow though equipment.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Rex, your just a store of knowledge. Hehe. Anyways, I still ordered some KNO3 (and other stuff) from Gregwatson - I'd rather spend another $2 to see if that is the problem rather then buying _another_ test kit.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Well I got all my stuff from Greg. I performed a test in a bucket and my RedSea test gave me the 2.5ppm I was looking for. Thumbs Up!

Any ideas why my nitrate would still remain constant? Could not enough traces cause problems with the uptake of N? Or would it be more like a phosphate problem? Both? I am going to test everything tomorrow (just did a 40-50% water change tonight) and dose 2ml of plantex solution.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Could be both. But I notice that my high light tank goes through cycles where it uses tons of nitrates and hardly any phosphates and then it will switch to using phosphates and hardly any nitrates.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

So the expired Red Sea kit was the only one that was correct??

What is the level in your tank now, it's constant at what ppm?


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

No, I purchase a new RedSea kit last weekend. I returned that expired RedSea for Seachem.. which didn't work. I'll draw a flowchart for everyone so they can see my pain in diagram form. :lol: 

My N is at around 5ppm, I check a couple times last week because I was bored.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo said:


> Any ideas why my nitrate would still remain constant? Could not enough traces cause problems with the uptake of N? Or would it be more like a phosphate problem? Both? I am going to test everything tomorrow (just did a 40-50% water change tonight) and dose 2ml of plantex solution.


Most likely a lack of one of the other nutrients. Keep us posted when you get those test results...


Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

OK, I just tested everything and the survey says...

Ph 6.6-6.8
Kh 5
Gh 9
Ammonia 0
Po4 0.2ppm
NO3 7ppm (colour is between the two colours for 5 & 10).

I got some boric acid after work today and added into my plantex mix. I will keep dosing the plantex mix for the week and retest my level on saturday or sunday. Do you think I should add a small about of PO4 (maybe .3ppm?)

Seems like I am seeing slightly better growth already from Ludwiga Cuba.. could be me seeing things I want to see though.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Glad to see you have everything figured out now! So was the problem bad test kits or bad ferts? 

Anyhow, I would add some PO4 if I were you. IME through reading fert articles on the net, when done cautiously, but sufficiently there is a world of difference in plant growth if you get the PO4 just right. The risk is running a terrible algae bloom, but high risk = high pay off. A successful proportion would be 1 part PO4 to 10 parts NO3 so even raising your PO4 by 0.5 ppm should be good. Make sure though that traces and K are in good concentration; since most of us don't have test kits for these two you just need to rely on intuition.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I think it was a little from column A and little from column B. Ferts of poor quality and expired test kits. 


I tested again today. PO4 is good, NO3 is still hovering around 7. I'll give it some more time.. couple weeks of dosing plantex & PO4 solution.. see what happens.


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## Verminaard (Dec 4, 2003)

Im having a somewhat similar problem getting a good nitrate level. 
I checked my no3 levels early today before I did a serious pruning job/water change (took about 3 hrs.). The no3 was at 2.5ppm before I started. Did a 20g water change (in a 72g) and removed a good deal of plant matter. Dosed 20ml TMG and afterwards checked the no3-it read at 0ppm. I half expected there wouldnt be very much because I go through a lot of no3 everyday (2-3ppm-high light tank). So I dosed 1/2 teaspoon of no3 -should put me back up to about 7ppm. No reading after dosing. Long story short I kept dosing and testing, dosing and testing my god when will it read? After adding 2.5 teaspoons of no3 Im still didnt get a reading. I know this kit works and cant possibly imagine why I cant get a reading. The plants cant be sucking up that much no3 that quick can they??Suggestions? I figure Ill just leave well enough alone and check it tomorrow but Im a little bewildered.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Bad test kit. That amount of KNO3 in a 75 gallon tank will get you to 30 ppm, no matter what the test kit says. 

Don't test your test kit in your tank. And always know what the limits are. For your 75 gallon tank you should never add more than .75 teaspoons (8.63 ppm but actually more due the fact you really don't have 75 gallons of water in there).


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## Verminaard (Dec 4, 2003)

The test kit is a red sea, brand new, and has an exp. in 2005. I just tested with a AP kit and it read 10ppm. I have tested the red sea kit via a 5g bucket a few days ago so I know it isnt bad. I just cant see why I would now be getting two different readings from two kits? I know the acceptable limits of no3-just no reason not to trust the red sea kit since I had just tested it with a bucket..........


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Could be incompatible ferts. Vinlo said that after switching to different KNO3 that he got positive results on the kits. Where did you get your KNO3 and if there are any lables what do they read? Most likely though somethings wrong witht he test kit or user error is involved.

BTW, if you put ferts in the tank, they are there; just because a test kit doesn't measure them doesn't mean diddly squat.


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## Verminaard (Dec 4, 2003)

Well, after checking the levels this morning, both test kits were reading very high- 20+ppm. I was dosing dry no3 (from greg watson) and I suppose it may take a while to break down in order to get a good reading. I've learned my lesson


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I have the stuff from Greg too. How long were you testing after you added? Should wait a couple hours (I guess you know that now). I would say just do a water change if you think 20ppm is going to give you some imbalance algae fun. 

On another note. Since adding the plantex my ludwiga cuba has grown about 4" or so. Starting to show signs of red in some plants.. but then one of my bulbs burnt out. I can not get a hold of one until monday (poor poor suppliers of lights in my city). Haven't tested KNO3 since saturday though.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Well, I tested again today (2 days after WC), my reading was around 3-4ppm I think.. not quite 5ppm colour. So it is going down. I had a mishap with my lighting and am waiting for a new bulb. I think I am on track to some balance.. and improved growth.

Thanks for the help everyone.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

What a post!!

Just curious, how low are you shooting for your nitrates to go vinlo?


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

I was just concerned that they weren't going anywhere. They are finally starting to deplete as previously posted. 

Once I get a handle on keeping at a certain level then I may monkey around with the levels to see what happens (more reds/algae/whatever). I would like to keep them just above 5ppm.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

ahhh

cool beans


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