# LED vs T5



## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

Better how? There are many shades of better.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Not unlike when we switched from Incandescent to Fluorescent Light. I feel this is the next step in the evolution of the hobby. 

I'm switching my display tanks over to LED. My 40 has PAR38 pendants. I'm waiting on the new Finnex Planted + for my 56C Riparium.


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

The LED technology for growing plants is finally here, no question and will continue to only get better / cheaper / less heat. Best of all for me is no more on-going bulb replacement cost, Hg risk / waste, so better for environment as well. I like the fact (as I understand it) that the life of the LEDs claimed is that during that period of time the spectra does not change unlike bulbs (as I understand). Overall much better piece of mind IMO. At my current photoperiod mine should last 13.5yrs....we'll see.


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## pgaron (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm just starting with some cheapo LED lights and I do agree the future of hydroponics is LED however what I am finding is there is a serious lack of information on performance measurements. It must be due to people buying what they know and that its new so not many people have them.


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## Exie (Jan 23, 2012)

I use AI branded leds. They're silent, produce no heat, and are extremely energy efficient. 

And most importantly, they grow my plants lol


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

What has not sold me on LED's is the color spectrum. I have one LED fixture and it washes out the color of both the plants and the fish. I admittedly did not do my research but when I read the same about higher end fixtures (not all wash out colors), I think how much cheaper a bulb is than a new fixture. Furthermore, I am not a fan of red bulbs over a scape that is 100% green plants but I am also not a fan of only white bulbs over red plants. Basically, a non adjustable fixture wouldn't work for me.

Secondly, I am not convinced they will last anywhere near how long many claim they last. Will the bulk of bulbs last on an LED fixture, probably, but my experience with LED's is that one always dies prematurely, and I am talking in general, not just on this application. 

On the flipside, I feel like it's only been about a year of this technology being commercially available at a price point that is reasonable, while giving more than low light. We have had expensive, high powered LED fixtures before then, cheap low powered fixtures, but now we are starting to see inexpensive fixtures with good output. Now we are seeing the technology that made a lot of us interested in LED's in the first place being implemented it affordable fixtures. I personally am going to wait until I can get exactly what I want in an affordable package before I retire my T5's.

At the end of the day, I would say even now LED's are going to be better for a planted tank but they are not compelling enough for me to upgrade yet. However, they likely are not the best choice for tanks that are very deep (not tall, talking front to back) as you will be buying more fixtures for the same coverage.


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## Exie (Jan 23, 2012)

AI vega and EcoTech Radion are both fully customizable to get the exact color you want and need.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Exie said:


> AI vega and EcoTech Radion are both fully customizable to get the exact color you want and need.


But neither of these brands are affordable compared to a T5HO setup and are arguably very overkill for a planted tank. 

Trust me, once my friend put on AI's on his reef, that is the point I really wanted to go LED. But the controller alone is more expensive than some useable but low end LED lights without a controller. Trust me, AI lights are amazing, rebuildable and use super high quality stuff. I would just assume any model they make is way overkill. 

What size tank are you using AI lights over and how many? What % are you running at?


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

I really like my Finnex fixtures, but I had to buy 2 Ray2's and a Monster Ray to get the effect I wanted. A little expensive.


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## seandelevan (Sep 24, 2006)

talontsiawd said:


> what has not sold me on led's is the color spectrum. I have one led fixture and it washes out the color of both the plants and the fish. I admittedly did not do my research but when i read the same about higher end fixtures (not all wash out colors), i think how much cheaper a bulb is than a new fixture. Furthermore, i am not a fan of red bulbs over a scape that is 100% green plants but i am also not a fan of only white bulbs over red plants. Basically, a non adjustable fixture wouldn't work for me.
> 
> Secondly, i am not convinced they will last anywhere near how long many claim they last. Will the bulk of bulbs last on an led fixture, probably, but my experience with led's is that one always dies prematurely, and i am talking in general, not just on this application.
> 
> ...


+1000


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## manlyfan76 (Jun 20, 2013)

Im eyeing a led on fleabay its a red and white mix: •10000K daylight + Deep Red mix 
•1:1 Red/White mix 
•CRI 92% 
•6 Watts per foot 
•450nm + 660nm
Im already running 4 T5's but thinking of slowly changing over as the t5's wear out.


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

Who ever votes led please show me a picture of red plants doing well. Whenever I see led over tanks they look great and the planta are nice and green but green doesn't always mean at full potential. Nearly all my planta turn light colored or red/ orange at the top due to high light from t5HO. I've never seen led tanks look like this. Also we should also consider what pot growers think about the subject and so far no experienced marajuana grower has had more success with led lights. Check youtube or any pot growing forum they all prefer the hps mh and sometimes t5HO. If led was so great there wouldn't be debates about it.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

Aquariumalchemy said:


> Who ever votes led please show me a picture of red plants doing well. Whenever I see led over tanks they look great and the planta are nice and green but green doesn't always mean at full potential. Nearly all my planta turn light colored or red/ orange at the top due to high light from t5HO. I've never seen led tanks look like this.


Here is my tank with a Finnex Ray 2. Notice even the blyxa on the left is turning red and the tops of the bocapa on the right are pink:


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

AnotherHobby said:


> Here is my tank with a Finnex Ray 2. Notice even the blyxa on the left is turning red and the tops of the bocapa on the right are pink:


I am glad you have an example. Even in my super low light LED 6 gallon, I get red out of plants that are easy to get red out of. I think the red plant myth is from people who would struggle to get good reds out of high light. Even myself, I am not getting deep reds with 4x24 on a 60P myself. I got decent reds with way less light. I know it's not the light for myself, but I would likely blame my new LED fixture if I didn't have an idea what was going on.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

"Red" is not just a light thing...


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## KribsDirect (Nov 15, 2013)

I really like the led and the more I read, the more I think I will end up with a finnex and or buildmyled product when I have the cash someday. I really like the effects of the Sat+ but its purely aesthetic for me. T5 is expensive and can continue to be so.

I have very little experience growing plants, and none with led, I have used bulbs for about 10 years. That's a lot of bulbs and electric bills after a while too.


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

AnotherHobby said:


> Here is my tank with a Finnex Ray 2. Notice even the blyxa on the left is turning red and the tops of the bocapa on the right are pink:


Really nice tank! Although I'm still skeptic on how plants react to led. You have shown they grow plants and from your picture can keep some plants red, but all of them? Has anybody ever had a side by side analysis. I would love to see that. I was almost gunna get leds for my new 50 but there was too much contradictory stuff and t5HO are safe for budget.


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## wabisabi (Jan 31, 2011)

AnotherHobby said:


> Here is my tank with a Finnex Ray 2. Notice even the blyxa on the left is turning red and the tops of the bocapa on the right are pink:


Beautiful tank! 

Just an FYI, the plant on the right is Rotala indica, not a bacopa species.


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## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

Since putting the 2 Satellite+ on my tank couple weeks ago I am am starting to see red come in on some of my plants. I am running CO2 also. I am replacing these with 2 BML 10Ks though.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

wabisabi said:


> Beautiful tank!
> 
> Just an FYI, the plant on the right is Rotala indica, not a bacopa species.


Thanks! However rotala indicia is the green plant on the left mixed in with the ludwigia red. The plant on the right is absolutely bacopa. I can provide a close up if you need to see it better.


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## Markahsf (Feb 27, 2012)

It really depends which LED product you purchase. I T5HOs for a while and they washed out all my colors. It made the tank look like a green blob from across the room. I got a Finnex ray2, same thing. Also, I was under the impression that I would need 2 ray2's for high light. It wasn't until I got a buildmyled fixture that I saw the full potential of my tank. 

Aquariumalchemy, I really don't understand what you mean. Are you inferring that LED fixtures can't bring out the red in plants? Not true at all. I have plenty of color in my buildmyled tank. At least take a look at the buildmyled thread. There are plenty colorful tanks. 

Most if not all my plants turn red at the tips.

Sure, buildmyled is a bit pricey but it's usually only a tad more expensive than purchasing 2 Finnex fixtures like I had to do to get high light. I'm sure not everyone can agree with me. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY S4 ACTIVE using Tapatalk 2


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Markahsf said:


> It really depends which LED product you purchase. I T5HOs for a while and they washed out all my colors. It made the tank look like a green blob from across the room. I got a Finnex ray2, same thing. Also, I was under the impression that I would need 2 ray2's for high light. It wasn't until I got a buildmyled fixture that I saw the full potential of my tank.
> 
> Aquariumalchemy, I really don't understand what you mean. Are you inferring that LED fixtures can't bring out the red in plants? Not true at all. I have plenty of color in my buildmyled tank. At least take a look at the buildmyled thread. There are plenty colorful tanks.
> 
> ...


Which BML did you go with? I'm thinking of snagging a smaller DIY build to try out. I really like that they are made in the USA.


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## Markahsf (Feb 27, 2012)

xmas_one said:


> Which BML did you go with? I'm thinking of snagging a smaller DIY build to try out. I really like that they are made in the USA.


10,000K. It's incredible. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY S4 ACTIVE using Tapatalk 2


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

> Sure, buildmyled is a bit pricey but it's usually only a tad more expensive than purchasing 2 Finnex fixtures like I had to do to get high light. I'm sure not everyone can agree with me.


 Actually for me it was a few bucks cheaper after shipping/dimmer/tank mounts even. Finnex was 320 for 2 fixtures, BML was 313 for 1. 1 BML put me into high light which is what I was shooting for.


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## wabisabi (Jan 31, 2011)

AnotherHobby said:


> Thanks! However rotala indicia is the green plant on the left mixed in with the ludwigia red. The plant on the right is absolutely bacopa. I can provide a close up if you need to see it better.


The plant on the left mixed in with the Ludwigia 'Red' is Rotala rotundifolia. It used to be called Rotala indica years back which has lead to some confusion among hobbyists. 

If you don't believe me, post your pic in the 'plants' sub forum and ask for an ID of the plant on the right side. I'm sure some of the resident 'experts' will chime in. 

Also thanks for posting your pic of LED's growing some beautiful red plants. I was skeptical until now.:thumbsup:


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

wabisabi said:


> The plant on the left mixed in with the Ludwigia 'Red' is Rotala rotundifolia. It used to be called Rotala indica years back which has lead to some confusion among hobbyists.
> 
> If you don't believe me, post your pic in the 'plants' sub forum and ask for an ID of the plant on the right side. I'm sure some of the resident 'experts' will chime in.


Huh... I was going with what they were called when sold to me, plus confirming google image searches. Not to mention 26k views on my tank journal and not a single correction from anybody. 

However, this site shows what is definitely what I was calling bacopa and says it's rotola indica, and shows what really looks like what I was calling rotola indica as rotola roundfolia. 

Guess I shouldn't have been too confident in what they are. :icon_redf


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

Markahsf said:


> Aquariumalchemy, I really don't understand what you mean. Are you inferring that LED fixtures can't bring out the red in plants? Not true at all. I have plenty of color in my buildmyled tank. At least take a look at the buildmyled thread. There are plenty colorful tanks.
> 
> Most if not all my plants turn red at the tips.
> 
> Sure, buildmyled is a bit pricey but it's usually only a tad more expensive than purchasing 2 Finnex fixtures like I had to do to get high light. I'm sure not everyone can agree with me.



I don't think it's impossible for leds to bring plants to their full potential. It is after all light. I just think most of them don't offer a wide enough spectrum for optimum plant growth. It's my impression that There is more than just chlorophyll1 2 and carotene which are involved in a lot of aquatic plant photosynthesis. Fluoros have wavy spectrums which when choosen correctly and with multiple bulbs with different spectrums seem to give a more full spectrum. Which plants look for. Especially red plants. Which use almost every wavelength of visible light. Check out red algae photosynthetic properties. It, like what I'm sure most aquatic plants look for is every spectrum of light for optimum growth since light underwater is limited. I'm sure if you choose LEDs which range throughout the spectrum you can be very successful.


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

Texan78 said:


> Since putting the 2 Satellite+ on my tank couple weeks ago I am am starting to see red come in on some of my plants. I am running CO2 also. I am replacing these with 2 BML 10Ks though.


This plant is supposed to be red on the top. If given correct light.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

AnotherHobby said:


> Here is my tank with a Finnex Ray 2. Notice even the blyxa on the left is turning red and the tops of the bocapa on the right are pink:


Hi AnotherHobby,

Which Finnex Ray 2 do you have on that tank; 7K/7K or 7K/10K??

Nice tank BTW!

-Roy


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi AnotherHobby,
> 
> Which Finnex Ray 2 do you have on that tank; 7K/7K or 7K/10K??
> 
> ...


I have the 7k/7k Ray 2, and thanks!


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

love my LED... my camera settings are probably not that great; but the tank looks great


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

LED's are extremely affordable.. you just can't go wrong. Once my T5 fixture blows out I will have an excuse to buy a second LED fixture for my 75 gallon... I can't wait.. LED rocks!


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Interesting to read the replies. I agree I like LED and the features it has.


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## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

I now use LED on my terrarium and I am really happy with the colour I am getting. To Previously, I was using flouroscents and at the low height, they did not give me enough colour, but also overheated my highland plants which started showing fungal problems. Ever since I changed to LED, temps have been lower, plants are getting more colourful and starting to grow better. I use 2 x ray 2 + 1 x planted + + 1 X satellite led plus over a 2' tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> What has not sold me on LED's is the color spectrum. I have one LED fixture and it washes out the color of both the plants and the fish. I admittedly did not do my research but when I read the same about higher end fixtures (not all wash out colors), I think how much cheaper a bulb is than a new fixture.


THAT was mostly because LED's orig. market was Marine, w/ a different set of parameters.. Deep pocket reefers is what has set the stage so to speak.. Yes new vs upgrading is a consideration..




talontsiawd said:


> Furthermore, I am not a fan of red bulbs over a scape that is 100% green plants but I am also not a fan of only white bulbs over red plants. Basically, a non adjustable fixture wouldn't work for me.


There are few things more adjustable than a multi channel multi color LED set up 


talontsiawd said:


> Secondly, I am not convinced they will last anywhere near how long many claim they last. Will the bulk of bulbs last on an LED fixture, probably, but my experience with LED's is that one always dies prematurely, and I am talking in general, not just on this application.


Phosphors do fade in LED's and I assume wear but the basic problem is design and heat management.. it is not totally an inherent problem of LED's, unlike Flour which decay fast, in relation to LED's no matter what the parameters are. LED manuf print lifespan and color change tables..
In general they are certainly better than CF, which are rated in years and costantly fail in weeks.. poor heat management and ballast design.. 
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/led-luminaries/uncategorized/led-life-expectancy-2009-02/


> Deconstructed it comes out to this:
> *If a LED fixture is illuminated an average of 8 hours per day it will last over 20 years before needing to be replaced.*
> *http://www.lumec.com/newsletter/architect_06-08/led.htm
> *





talontsiawd said:


> On the flipside, I feel like it's only been about a year of this technology being commercially available at a price point that is reasonable, while giving more than low light. We have had expensive, high powered LED fixtures before then, cheap low powered fixtures, but now we are starting to see inexpensive fixtures with good output. Now we are seeing the technology that made a lot of us interested in LED's in the first place being implemented it affordable fixtures. I personally am going to wait until I can get exactly what I want in an affordable package before I retire my T5's.


Waiting until you can get "exactly" what you want.. well we know how that goes..I'm pretty sure t5's aren't ever "exactly" what you want either.. 



talontsiawd said:


> At the end of the day, I would say even now LED's are going to be better for a planted tank but they are not compelling enough for me to upgrade yet. However, they likely are not the best choice for tanks that are very deep (not tall, talking front to back) as you will be buying more fixtures for the same coverage.


Point source high output LED's are exactly what you want for deep tanks.. 
And f/b is a bit of a problem for the same reason.. but you do the eqiv. for t5's 1=2-3-4 bulbs deep..
One or 2 strips can cover a large f/b area, when properly designed..

THEY ARE different though and have their own set of "oddities" and not for everyone..

Where LED's blow t5's ..or almost any other lighting away is in color flexability, dimming, and other "parlor tricks"........ 

Not to mention a great waste of time and money for the DIY set.. not much to build, nor any point to it, in a t5 set up..


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