# Journal of my 20 Long (Watching the Grass Grow!!)



## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

So as some of you may know, my ten gallon is now extinct. I thought I'd show a few pics of the very beginnings of my new project. I just finished the hardscape here, and I'm waiting for the Coralife t5's to show up. Once they get here, I'm planting a carpet of [fill in the blank]. I haven't really decided yet, but very soon this tank will be alive. Here are a few pics:

From the front









From the front-left









From the front-right









From the left side:










So stay tuned for more in the very near future!!

:smile:


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Very nice, what kind of substrate is that? Looks cool 
Subscribed!


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Nice hard scape :thumbsup:
Can't wait until you put plants in.
Subscribed as well!


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

nice hard scape it looks like eco complete orlando


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

not my eco. eco is finer and most of the particles are circular. 
black flourite maybe?

i like the hardscape, too. the stripey rock looks cool. 

any plans for inhabitants?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Good morning everyone! Thanks for the comments. So, yes, Orlando, this is Eco-complete, and I agree with those of you who pointed out that Eco is not normally this large. I was quite shocked to see these big particles when I opened up the bags. I don't know if CaribSea changed their formula, or if I got a few anomalous bags, or what... But I figure I'll go with it, since I don't really have much of a choice, and the majority of the substrate was the normal sized particles I am familiar with-- there were just a few larger particles as well. I think they should all settle towards the bottom of the substrate soon enough.

The stripey rock is Zebra rock. I saw it first in an ADA dealer's website, and knew that it was what I wanted, but it was $3.99 a pound, and then there's shipping and stuff. So imagine my happy surprise when I discovered that a LFS had this rock in stock at half price! For $1.95 a pound, I picked up about 30 lbs of the stuff, then came home and spent literally 5 hours trying out different combinations of rocks before settling on this hardscape.

My thoughts on the inhabitants are, so far, that I want a nice school of fish in there, and I already have a small school of Black Neons in my girlfriend's nano tank, so I'm going to initially put them in there. If they don't provide the look I'm going for, then I will move them to the 45 Tall that I am still working on as well, and then maybe go with some Rasbora in here. But ultimately I'm thinking a school of tightly-schooling fish, a bunch of Amano shrimp, and of course, my favorite fish of all time, a handful of otos.

As far as flora, I'm initially going to just start off with just a carpet of something... to get that traditional Iwagumi look. I'm going out today to pick up about 4-5 pots of lillaeopsis brasiliensis, because I liked the way that looked as the carpet in my now-defunct 10 gallon. But if the LFS doesn't have any, or it doesn't look good, I'm going to take that as a sign that I should move on and try a different foreground plant to expand my pallette a bit. In that case, I will go to aquaticplantdepot's nursery tomorrow during my lunch break and get some glossostigma. I've seen some really nice Iwagumi's with just glosso, and I think this hardscape would make that work well.

Ultimately, though, I'm hoping I can get some microsword in here, and just carpet the whole entire tank. As soon as that look gets old to me, I will start adding a few Rotala spp. to fill out the background a bit, and then maybe put a stand of some Rotala 'Vietnam' in there as a focal point. I'm a full-on Rotala junkie now, and I am in love with that Genus. If I could, I would marry it.

I'm open to suggestions, by the way... for plant suggestions, or even livestock for that matter. I mean, I definitely plan on starting it up as a traditional Iwagumi, but that will evolve into other things, undoubtedly.

Stay tuned, because I'm gonna make this tank supersweet, I promise. I still have some hardware to buy in the near future, too. For instance, I plan on getting some glass filter tubes, and an inline heater, to make some of the ugly hardware disappear. Then I'm either going to build a CO2 reactor, or get one of those new glass diffusors over at Green Leaf. That means I'll be talking to you soon, Orlando.

More pics coming soon, hopefully this evening.

:smile:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, big eco. mine is practically sand. its a good substrate, though. your plants will do great in it (full of nutrients, and almost as much iron as flourite).

good buy on the rock. all my LFSs have is slate, granite, and argonite.

tetras tend to stay near the bottom, especially when there is no thick background to dart into if higher up. so i suggest you put some white clouds (or gold clouds) in addition to the tetras; to have some reason to look at the top of the tank.

may i suggest you also try some Lilaeopsis mauritius? it looks just like the brazilian micro sword (in my 20L i have both and i cant tell the difference). however, it acclimates much faster and grows faster overall.


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

I have been waiting on this journal since the 10 GAL fiasco, Glad to see it posted now.


SUBSCRIBED


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

i love the hardscape, but i think you should make the main rock stick out more and the supporting-stone a little more out as well. the rest of the side-stone should be little more pronounced as well.what plants u planning on having in here?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

lucky you, you have a blank slate to work with  looks good so far 
edit: oh yeah, the larger pieces rise to the surface, so maybe you could take out the boulders, and smash them with a hammer to crush it into finer pieces


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

no, they dont rise. the smaller ones just fall into the holes inbetween them.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yeah, eventually I will let things settle and scoop out the larger pebbles. I think, though, that Eco kind of breaks down a bit. Because when I go look at the very first eco I ever bought, which is still residing in the now-drained 10 gallon, it looks very fine-- a lot finer than I ever remember it being. So I think the bigger pieces might break down of their own accord. At any rate, I do plan on removing some of the larger pieces at some point, or over time...

Fishman, I see what you mean about the stones' positions. I'm going to hold off, though, before rearranging them, because I want to carpet the tank a bit first. Once I do that, I've already positioned the rocks in such a way that I could "fine-tune" them later, after the carpet comes in and I can visualize better what I'm working with.

Oh, and I'm right now tossing between just carpeting the whole thing with micro-sword, or glosso. Which of those do you guys think would look better? Once I get over the initial Iwagumi look, of just rocks and carpet, I'll try to recreate a similar, rotala-dominant scape to that of the 10 gallon. But for now, just carpeting.

Glosso or lillaeopsis?

Thanks for the comments everyone, as usual! :smile:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

my advice:
if you ever have to choose between 2 plants for your tank, choose both. :biggrin:

glosso in the front (and middle). lillaeopsis behind the last row of stones and kinda curving to the sides of the back few stones to kind of hug them and make it look more nartural.
doing this means you will have to trim the glosso well and often, to get rid of the upright shoots that would take away from the nice height difference of the microsword. you will also need to keep it from overgrowing the microsword (it grows irratably slowly, where as glosso grow invasively fast).


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks for the advice! Also, I forgot to mention, I had already planned on going out and getting a few pots of lillaeopsis, but my LFS was all out. So I'm going to call aquaticplantdepot today and see if they carry it. I don't think I've ever seen it on their webpage, but that doesn't mean they don't have it. I have to get my glosso from them anyway, so hopefully that will work out.

So, anyway, I expected to already have my plants ready to be planted, but I still don't. I'm expecting my coralife fixtures to arrive either today or tomorrow, so I need to get this show on the road!

Stay tuned!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I've been reading up a lot on glossostigma today, and I'm almost starting to doubt that I will be successful with it... 

Everything I've read seems to agree that it doesn't do well in hard water, whereas the lilaeopsis thrives in hard water. Does anyone know if my fears are founded here? Should I give up the idea of going with Glosso? I mean, i already know that I like lilaeopsis, and it seems to like me, so what do you think? Should I give it a go?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

WAIT! microsword likes you!? this plant doesnt like ANYBODY! if you are really REALLY nice to it, MAYBE it will be nice enough to survive. if you make it very happy it MIGHT carpet after a few decades.
lol

hard in what sense?
general (gh), carbonate (kh), or potenz (ph)?
i kept it very successfully in gh 10 or more (changes slightly over time, 10 was the lowest so far), kh 5, and ph 7.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ lol, the secret is microsword likes it when you talk dirty to it. I tried being nice but it never grew. Then when I started talking dirty it kicked into gear, lmao


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the one in my 20L is doing, eh. i hate it (not the look, the personality). it does bad enough to not look as good as the rest of the tank, but good enough to keep me from ripping it out and getting dwarf hairgrass. 

well congrats on yours anyway.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay, so I went to aquaticplantdepot yesterday and picked up a massive wad of lilaeopsis, and several bunches of glossostigma. I paid $9.40 for all of it! I came home, floated all the lilaeopsis in a tub of water, and then began work preparing the glosso for planting...

I gotta tell you... I learned something very important yesterday: From now on I will only be buying carpet-plants from other hobbyists who grew said plant in a high-light tank! My point is, I bought "bunches" of glosso (yes, that's right, glosso is a stem plant!) that were being grown pond-style, and obviously they had grown tall and lanky... so when i got home, I had to cut off all the little "plantlets" from the stems, and this took me HOURS!!!! After doing all that, and then planting them in the substrate with eyebrow-plucking tweezers, my back was hurting BAD, and all the wine in the world didn't make me feel any better.

Nonetheless, I planted all the good glosso plantlets, then discarded the rest, and finally just went to bed. Today, I need to go back to the nursery and get more glosso because I underestimated how much I would need. And I've decided I want to carpet the entire tank in glosso, with a few stands of lilaeopsis here and there. After I plant the remaining empty space with more glosso tonight, I will take some pics.

I am exhausted. I just wanted to say that glosso is already starting off as a pain in the butt, so it better be worth it. And I thought that planting microsword carpets was tedious!


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

I feel your pain. I replanted my hair grass three times.
My back hates me now.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

*Poop.*

I just got back from aquaticplantdepot and it turns out I bought all the glosso they had yesterday! So I can't even get any more glosso to complete the scape! 

I don't really know what to do now. I can:

a) Remove all the glosso I just planted yesterday, and space it out evenly across the entire tank.

b) Remove all the glosso and instead go with an entire lilaeopsis carpet.

c) Just add the lilaeopsis to the rest of the substrate, and have a mixture of two different carpet plants. The problem with this option is that the glosso wasn't planted in a defined boundary of any sort, so mixing the two plants at this point would create a random, weird softscape.

I'M FREAKING OUT HERE!!! Maybe I'm just hungry, which I am, so I will go eat something and see if that takes my frowny-pants off...


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Just leave the glosso, and if you see any more for sale some where, then buy it and plant it in the bald areas


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm aiming towards. I just posted a request in the SnS for some glosso...

I'm kind of worried now about what to do with ferts and CO2 and stuff... I mean, I can't imagine putting it on full EI dosing, and rapid CO2 injection for a couple of plugs of glosso. I guess I should only keep my lights on for 4 hours a day or something like that. Hopefully someone can come through for me and supply me with some more glosso asap....


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Ok so I think I've decided to unplant the glosso. :icon_sad: 

I'm gonna pull it all out and put down a carpet of lilaeopsis. I've been having a panic attack just thinking about all the work it will require to finish a carpet of glosso. I'm a wuss. I just don't have the patience...


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Here's the once-again-plantless tank. I took a picture to at least show that I have the new fixtures installed. Each fixture is 2x18w t5's, which gives me a total of 72w... using 1x 6700k, 1x 10,000k, and 2x Colormax. I'm not too sure how I feel yet about these colormax bulbs, so I might just go all 6700k/10,000k.

Also in this pic you can see how I shortened the length of the spraybar and the intake tube. 20 longs are too shallow for the stock Eheim spraybar, apparently. And I also took out the heater for the time being, since I can't remember the last time I saw it on. It's been hot lately!!

Oh yeah, and I also put in the black neons that were previously in the 2.5 gallon. This is, once again, a temporary home for them. They will permanently be moved to a 45g very soon...

Here's the pic:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I dont know if its been said, but what are you planning co2 wise?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Should have left the Glosso in! It would have looked great around the rocks, and would have filled the space in no time flat...


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

clwatkins10, I'll be using pressurized CO2, through a small glass diffuser.

And roybot73, I realize this tank would look awesome covered in glosso, but my rationalization is that if I'm not going to get to enjoy the tank, even if due to impatience, then what is the point of having it? Yes, I admit, I am being impatient, but come on! I lost my beautiful 10 gallon! This is the replacement to it, not an addition to it, so I really just want to hurry up and get another high-light CO2 injected tank up and running!

The microsword will be planted this weekend, probably tonight. Once I get tired of it, I think I just may actually pull it all up, give it away in the SnS, and plant a bunch of glosso in there! By that time I'll have my 45 gallon up and running out in the living room, so I'll be able to afford being patient on this one!!!

Thanks for the comments guys!

:smile:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I hope it works out for you! I would have imagined the Glosso to spread more quickly than the Lilaeopsis, hence my earlier comment. Either way, it will look sweet


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## MARIMOBALL (Mar 18, 2007)

Its a good start. IMO I would flatten the substrate in the front and slope it towards the back to add depth to the scape. I like the rock, but its not ADA rock there is a difference he uses Chinese zebra rock and LFS sell zebra rock. Still it looks good and a good price. If you want to go with a low plant mass and high light and CO2 then I suggest you buy about ten pots of glosso and 10 pots of micro sword. That way you will have less chance of an algae attack and green water.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

hes right on that, glosso grows fast, so it will help with nutrient control, and increase the plant mass fast so algae finds it harder to take over.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Well the problem with that is that aquaticplantdepot doesn't sell the glosso in pots (or the microsword for that matter). So I would either have to float the stems, or plant them in the substrate. What if I were to just plant the microsword densely, and then just float some fast-growing stem plants, like wisteria? Would that serve the same purpose? Actually, I could even plant a row of rotala along the background, because that was in the original plan anyway... I was just going to try to wait until I got my carpet down before doing so. But I don't mind planting it now.

Also, I took MARIMOBALL's suggestion and re-sloped the substrate. I agreed all along with that suggestion, and to have someone else point it out to me only strengthened my resolve. I'll take some pics of it after I plant the microsword today...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

that would work, i kept hornwort floating in all my tanks as it help control algae (until recently, when it became my only plant covered in algae...). however, it doesnt look right in an iwagumi. however, you can try just microsword. it certainly CAN work. it will also be cheaper as they grow slower so you wont have to dose as much. plus SAE clean their leaves if you have them without damaging them. with glosso the leaves stems are really brittle and sometimes break off while a SAE eats.


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## MARIMOBALL (Mar 18, 2007)

The problem with floating some plants to absorb nutrients is that glosso does not grow dense and compact when shaded. You can plant something in the back and then remove it. I haven't planted my 120P for that reason. Im still waiting on 30 pots of glosso and maybe 2 sq ft. of micro sword or some kind of small grass. Iwagumi set ups are some of the most challenging scape even though they give the impression of a clean simple scape.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

*Here we go!*

I just finished planting the lilaeopsis. Here's the beginnings of my Iwagumi:
































































I'm gonna do a wc tomorrow and then connect the CO2 up and begin dosing ferts. This is my first attempt at an Iwagumi. Hopefully it will go well...

Thanks for looking!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

that will look really cool when it fills in  though, the lilaeopsis might be too tall in the front... the glosso would've looked really cool  It will still look awesome when it fills in, it just might cover some of the lower rocks


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

This is going to look really nice when it fills in.
But maybe a slope in the back to give it some depth?


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## thefishmanlives (May 20, 2008)

i agree. I would have replanted the glosso along the front. If you would have kept the glosso, once it settled in, you would have eaten those words "not enough glosso". I was in the same boat you were, and 3 months later was throwing it out by the hand full, it over takes everything, to the point I will never use it again, or if I did I would try to confine it to a valley or rocks or some other border. It grew low and spread into my stems in the backround and everything in the mid and foreground, was a real pain and grew on top of itself like 10 times over. Looking good so far. Good advice on sloping the substrate back to front. I would defintely get some stems in the backround right away to keep algae under control and keep that co2 cranking very high, since you have no fish. Dont give up on those colormax bulbs yet, as many people love them especially if your gonna have some rweds and pinks from the rotalas.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks for the replies.

I know the microsword looks a little too tall in places, but that's only because it was grown that way in the outdoor pools it was grown in. I have to let the plantlets settle in a bit before I trim them. It's like mowing the lawn. And that's really the trick to growing lilaeopsis. It needs to be trimmed to encourage lateral growth. And all the new growth will be nice and short under the good lighting conditions I'll be providing.

Those last pics you see were taken _after_ re-sloping from front to back. So mizu-chan, there already is a slope there. It goes from about 2-3" in front to about 4-5" in the back. But the height I was taking the pictures from don't really show that slope, because I was slightly higher, looking down. It's more of an optical illusion I guess.

I'm going to plant some rotala along the back. I created a sort of "cliff" in the back, to have another plane to plant on, for a visual effect, and I'm gonna decorate it with good ol' rotala. To thefishmanlives, there _are_ fish in there! A small school of black neons. So I can't really crank the CO2. But I'm gonna plant the rotala soon just to kick start some oxygen-producing photosynthesis for the sake of the fish. I'm only gonna keep the lights on for about 6 hours a day. Then after I trim the microsword for the first time, I'll probably see some fast growth on the carpet.

I still plan on doing a glosso carpet after this one gets old. I'll eventually just pull it all out, or part of it, and replace it with glosso. I want this tank to be an opportunity to grow out various plants over time and get familiar with them. Sort of a learning tank, I guess. I'll probably have a different stand of stem plants each time, so I can familiarize myself with new plants I haven't grown before, and expand my pallette. Like all the rotala vietnam that looks so beautiful to me in pictures!

So yeah, this one is pretty much going to be all microsword, with some rotala in the back. And the fish aren't permanent, either. I'm thinking of getting some small rasbora or killifish in there instead...

Thanks for looking.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice tank so farroud:

Btw, what exactly is clado algae that made you take down your 10 gallon?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks!

It's nasty stuff. It's too bad we don't have an algae id sticky thread here, or I could link you to it. But basically it's a nasty algae that doesn't seem to go away of it's own accord. And not too many fish or inverts will eat the stuff. Just do a google search. I beleive the full name is cladophora.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

just note on the rotala cliff:
you want to have it in 3 rows for the cliff. the stems in each row would look best if they were next to each other, and the rows straight. the back row should be kept about an inch shorter then the surface. the second row an inch shorter then that, and the third an inch shorter then the third. that way the bottoms of the stems wont be visible, except the front ones which wont be shaded since the stem is shorter.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

*is scared that it may be under my Marselia carpet*

And that's what a Marimo/Moss Ball is made of:icon_eek: 

Did it look like a Moss ball or like...something else?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I think the marimo balls are a different type of cladophora? I'm not sure on that one, maybe someone else could chime in here. But on a related note, I hate even the word clado so much that I don't think I want to ever be around a marimo ball!

And marko, thanks for that suggestion! I will take that into account, for sure. I'm going to be planting my rotala some time in the next week.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Well I haven't planted any new plants yet, but the lilaeopsis is definitely growing. I've already given it a haircut once. I'll be putting some amanos in there soon, too.

I have pictures coming soon, I promise.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Alright I just took some pictures on my crappy cellphone. It's better than nothing, I guess. You can see the lilaeopsis is growing a little bit, which is cool. I've also got a nice colony of diatoms going too. :icon_roll I'm not worried, though, since I'll be putting some amanos and some otos in there soon enough. It will be a yummy treat for them. Here are the pics:




































































































I'll take some better pics with a better camera after there's some good growth. Hopefully I'll decide on the background plants by then, too. These pics are just to document the growth of the carpet.

Any comments are appreciated!

:smile:


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

At least it's growingroud:

Btw, what kind of phone was it?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes, growing is good  Those neons look nice in there


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Coming along nicely. I see some growth going on there!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

ZTM, it's just some el cheapo Samsung phone that came free with my Sprint contract. Thanks everyone, for the comments! It's fun sometimes to just sit and watch the grass grow...


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh no I think I may have clado...did it look like hair algae that was bunched up together, but in a BGA color instead of green?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Hehe. Yep. Sounds like it.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

sooo anything happening? get a new camera yet lol


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Sigh. Nope. Not yet. I just lost my job, and haven't gotten my first paycheck from the new one yet, so it's gonna have to wait. But my girlfriend's camera phone is much nicer than my own, and I will take pictures today. I was going to already, then to see my thread bumped when I logged in was a nice surprise!

The grass is spreading rather nicely. My only problem is that I'm not too happy with the t5 lighting. I don't know if it's because of the mere fact that I am using less wpg than I was on the 10 gallon, or if it's the lack of a noon burst, or if it's the fact that I went to t5 lighting after using compact fluorescent... all I know is that the lighting looks less intense, and the growth is slightly slower. Also, the lilaeopsis is noticeably taller than it was in the 10 gallon.

So based on that, I'm going to change something about the lighting... either I'm gonna replace both fixtures with a Coralife 2x65w 30" CF fixture, or I'm gonna keep what I have and just add another 2x18w t5. But that would make it so I had 3 fixtures, and I wouldn't be able to use my glass top anymore, and it just seems too complicated.

So, does anyone reading this use the 2x65w fixture 30" fixture? How are the bulbs arranged? Are they offset so that the whole entire 30" is lit, or are they both right next to each other leaving 6" of shade on one end of the tank?

I just think that CF light seems to be more powerful than t5. I thought t5 was supposed to be the way to go, but it seems to me that it leaves shadows. It's like the only way to go t5 would be to cover the entire surface area of the tank with it. I don't know. Maybe I just miss having an open top tank with the fixture being raised off the top...

At any rate, pictures are coming today when the lights come on.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

hmm if youre in the market to sell your 2 T5's shoot me a pm  

cant wait to see some new pics !!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay here are my pictures! Sorry they are overexposed but it turns out I suck at taking pictures. Enjoy them if you can!



















































































Then, this is after I mowed the lawn:







































I just have to be patient...


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

It's coming along. :thumbsup:


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yes it is, thank you! I'm liking it. Once the carpet fills in, I'm adding a "mountain range" of rotala in the back. It's gonna look coooooool.

Also, I want to give a shout out to Pedro (milalic) of Inverts Factory. Those amanos he sold me have pretty much ended any worries I may have had about algae. I don't think I'll ever keep a planted tank again without 'em!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

the lawns lookin good.  it should look awesome once its all grown in! 

rotalas are my favorite stems too (aside from blyxa )


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

so whats up? anything exciting happen in a month?


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

chris127 said:


> so whats up? anything exciting happen in a month?


yep, grass grows, lol. update?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Well, since you asked...

I have been dealing with quite a bit of thread algae. I'm not too sure, but I think there was the beginnings of staghorn, too. At any rate, I had to cut the grass down all the way to the substrate, and then overdose some Excel, and I'm still waiting for the dead algae to get eaten away by the amanos. They've already started munching on it, so that's good. But since then, I've cut my EI dosing regimen in half, and shortened the photoperiod as well, while I wait for the grass to grow again.

I've since learned that it is NO JOKE WHATSOEVER that doing an iwagumi is very difficult. I've purposefully tried doing this without adding any floating plants or stem plants, just for the experience and the knowledge, but I'm at my wits' end. The tank still looks good, and the grass is definitely spreading, but the algae was keeping up with it too, and that's not good. I may very well end up adding stems just to outcompete the algae, but that remains to be seen.

I have no new pics, but just look at the last ones and imagine that the green color is covered up by gray thread algae, and brown diatoms, and that is what it looks like now. The diatom growth has finally tapered off, and I don't see new growth every day like was happening for a long while. What's in there now should quickly become oto food!

One thing I've learned so far is this: if starting up an iwagumi, and you don't want to add stem plants, it's best to limit the photoperiod and nutes until the carpet has really kicked into high gear. Because my theory is that even though the grass has been growing and spreading, there was just too much leftover nutes in the water column, which fueled the algae. If I could do it all over again, I would have never jumped right into a full-fledged EI routine so soon. But in my defense, I only did that because it's what people here suggested I do, when I asked that specific question, back in the beginning stages.

Now I know.

But after dosing Excel the other night, and seeing the dead, whitish-purple remnants of the thread algae falling away, I can see green again, finally! And it's not just coming from the green dust algae that has collected on the zebra rocks, either! Finally, my girlfriend will not be able to say "It sucks that the rocks are greener than the grass is" anymore!!!

This has been a very educational project, which is what I wanted, because I felt like my last major project, the 10 gallon, was just too easy, in retrospect. I wanted a challenge, and I GOT ONE!!!

Thanks for asking. I truly do believe that the algae has been contained, and all that remains is oto and amano food. The grass is turning green again, and it's still spreading around the tank. I can already see the tank turning into what I envisioned all along, and it's gonna be awesome, I promise!

I'll go ahead and post some pics tonight when I get home. I'm not too proud to show my tank even when it looks sub-par. Stay tuned for that.


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

How about some pictures? :hihi:
Glad you battled with that algae, it can be a real pain in the butt sometimes.

Can't wait for this tank to be complete covered with your grass. Going to be an awesome Iwagumi!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I only JUST found my card reader last night, so I can finally upload some pics. I took pics of the tank when it was covered in green algae, just for documentation's sake, and I haven't had a chance to upload them. But now that I found the card reader, I'll do that tonight.

I'm a MESS right now because I'm moving in 2 weeks, and I've already begun boxing things up. But yeah, the tank looks pretty good now, and I can finally just relax and let things grow... well, until I have to drain it and move 10 miles down the road, anyway! :icon_roll

Check back here again tonight, and I'll have some pics! Thanks for looking, mizu.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay, so here are the pics from when the tank was covered in green algae:

























































And here are a few I just took tonight:


































































So now that the green algae has gone away, the thread algae is coming back. But I will just keep dosing Excel, and everything should be okay in the long run. I have to stay optimistic about this tank! I still believe I can achieve the vision I have in my mind...


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

add some stems or some floating hygro!! itll help with excess light/nutrients that the algae would otherwise be using.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i agree with the above ^
but i reccomend hornwort specifically. it is the best "sponge" plant IME.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Is hornwort one of those where, once you have it in your tank you will have it FOREVER?


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

no, hornwort is a stem plant


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Sorry to hear about the algae. I've been battling some myself in my 75 gal tank. Several plants have died from what I suspect is my male krib munching them to death. I just rescaped a section of the tank with some thicker plants. Hopefully this will help.

Anyway - good luck with your battle. Maybe the move will help. After you drain the tank, put some Excel in a mister bottle and spray it all over the plants and rocks just before you move it. By the time you fill it back up again, the remaining algae should be toast.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ Holy cow! I don't know why I didn't think of that! Duhhhhh... That's a fantastic idea, and I look forward to doing it! Thanks for chiming in, guys.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Church said:


> ^ Holy cow! I don't know why I didn't think of that! Duhhhhh... That's a fantastic idea, and I look forward to doing it! Thanks for chiming in, guys.


....a revelation!! 

good luck with the algae


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay, I think I'm on to something here...

So, since the thread algae has been growing like kudzu, I've been researching more and more to try and figure out what's going on. I've had thick strands of thread algae growing up towards the surface that reach to about 6" long in some spots, and it is showing no signs of leveling off. According to a lot of info I've read about thread algae (at least I think that's what it's called... it's a grayish green color, anyway, and it doesn't branch, plus it's growing on the substrate and at the base of the lilaeopsis, so I know it's not staghorn), a huge reason for its existence is too much mulm or leftover food. So I started pushing the substrate around a little bit while vacuuming, and discovered this stuff is pretty much ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!!

Knowing that I don't overfeed (in fact, if anything, I usually worry that I'm _under_feeding), I'm starting to be concerned that maybe my problem is, was, and has been all along, the Eco-Complete I have in there! I don't know for sure, but I was just re-reading my thread here, and back on the first pages people were mentioning how "wrong" the Eco-Complete looked. I sort of passed it off, but now it's got me thinking... and of course, it's no secret that there HAVE been some bad batches, so maybe that's what I have? Does anyone know what some of the symptoms of the bad Eco-Complete were?

So what I'm thinking is, since I'm already going to be taking everything down to move in 11 days, maybe I should bit the bullet and replace the substrate? I am about to purchase a bunch of 3M Color Quartz anyway, and I was going to have plenty left over. So I'm thinking that's what I'll do. I'm actually going to attempt to recreate this same hardscape, too, because I like it. That is, as long as I can remember which rocks go where and in what position. I'll probably label them or something.

Anyway, I'm just super frustrated, and I'm trying to avoid thinking that I am just not advanced enough to do an iwagumi. 

So, I have stopped ferts and CO2, and no longer allow the lights to come on. Pretty soon I'll take the fish and shrimp out, and begin tearing down. One question I have is this: does anyone think I should clean the canister filter? I mean, I really don't want to, because I don't have any extra, cycled tanks to put my livestock in, and it's not like thread algae is clado or anything. What do y'all think? I'm just worried about an infestation coming back after I set it all back up again.

Thanks.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

why not go with aquasoil?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Because it's expensive. That's the primary reason I chose to go with CQ. I mean, come on, 50 lbs for $25? That's the kind of deal I need right now in this economy...

But I know what you mean... AS is badass. And you get what you pay for and all of that. But no matter what, I can't justify spending the money on a tank this large. If it were for a 10 gallon, maybe...

Plus I like the idea that it's completely inert, which means I get to be more in control of the water chemistry.


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## angel919 (Apr 26, 2006)

if your going to rescape have you looked at the mineralized home made substrate that everyone has been raving about? I've never tried it myself but it seems like a sound substrate.

Anyway, everyone goes through algae problems, your idea of throwing in a bunch of stems to help control the algae sounds good, I think you should go with that for a quick fix and hope it works out for you


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## NyteBlade (Aug 19, 2006)

I believe the symptoms of the bad eco-complete were extraordinarily high phosphate levels. That and I heard there were some funky colors in the gravel, but I think if you got some tainted stuff the problem would be high phosphates.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yeah there were a LOT of white particles in this batch of eco-complete. I saw it from the very beginning (and so did people who commented in this very thread!), but the optimist in me just ignored it. :icon_roll

At any rate, I do believe the eco was my problem, and I've already emptied this tank out. I transferred everything over to my new 10g setup, which I will have pictures of very soon. I'm going to redo the 20g with 3M color quartz, and it won't be an iwagumi. I'm thinking of an Amano-style "wabi-sabi" tank, which to me looks like a wonderful blend of el natural and dutch styles. It's going to be a joint project between my girlfriend and myself.

So officially, this tank is kaput....

...FOR NOW!!!!


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