# Looking for some opinions



## KribsDirect (Nov 15, 2013)

I like this scape! Very cool wood and rocks! I wouldn't change a thing, but I'm new also. It looks great to me.


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## pirayaman (Mar 30, 2008)

I love it get hc to grow between the rocks. Sooo dope

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## petlover997 (Oct 27, 2013)

Looks great!! Add some light into it though


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

i really like the look! at the moment it looks very dark and ominous, love it. Im sure that will change with a splash of green and more light, but i think that looks great, you nailed it!

Its almost a shame that you are going to be going the low-med tech route, there are so many plants that would look amazing in this tank that you will simply not be able to use. James Findley from the Green Machine referred to not using Co2 as " a painter limiting himself on the colors he can use ".


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

Sean W. said:


> i really like the look! at the moment it looks very dark and ominous, love it. Im sure that will change with a splash of green and more light, but i think that looks great, you nailed it!
> 
> Its almost a shame that you are going to be going the low-med tech route, there are so many plants that would look amazing in this tank that you will simply not be able to use. James Findley from the Green Machine referred to not using Co2 as " a painter limiting himself on the colors he can use ".


Thanks! You know, this is my first tank so I wanted to make sure I liked this hobby before buying up more stuff. But you never know, adding CO2 later shouldn't be too hard.


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## AquaJedi (Feb 10, 2014)

Wow! Such a cool hardscape. HC or Monte Carlo would be nice choices but w/o using CO2, you might be limited in what you can carpet with. Can't wait to see more progress pics.


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## BeeJL (Feb 17, 2014)

What brand of tank is that and where did you get it? I want a 40 gal rimless breeder tank.


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## Sprinkles (Mar 16, 2013)

Lovely scape! The flow of the rocks and the wood really work to keep the eye moving. Nice job!


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

AquaJedi said:


> Wow! Such a cool hardscape. HC or Monte Carlo would be nice choices but w/o using CO2, you might be limited in what you can carpet with. Can't wait to see more progress pics.


I actually just DSM my tank with some Monte Carlo. We'll see how it goes with no CO2. But I heard Monte Carlo will do okay without it. Thoughts?


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## Anfer (Feb 24, 2014)

Very Nice, Can't wait to see more progress pics.


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## horsedude (Nov 10, 2012)

I wouldn't change a thing with that scape. It looks awesome for a first tank!
good luck...


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks guys!!

You can now follow my tank in the tank journals. Here's a link

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=569194


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

> I like the left side of the tank with the tree on a slope. I'm looking for your expert opinions on what I should do to the right side of tank. Something to me isn't right


You're right, the right side is off. The problem is that it's in direct competition with the left, like two boxers facing off. One solution is to lower the right side substrate and make the left side substrate gradually slope into the right. The left side needs more width so the branch should be moved to the right a bit to occupy more space. It looks rather feeble backed into the corner like that.

As for framing, the front substrate line must be perfectly level, not the slight smile that it has now. Think of the substrate line like the bottom of a picture frame. It frames the entire scape.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

I'm doing a DSM project with Monte Carlo too. Heard the same about the "MC" but will be using pressurized CO2 when I flood. I think the right side compliments the left and I wouldn't change a thing. The front substrate level that you currently have accentuates the valley and I have to disagree with keeping it a straight line. Straight lines in nature are unnatural. Keep us updated with pics of progress. Good luck! :bounce:


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

The straight line is not for naturalness, it's for framing, just like the sides and top of the tank are straight.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> The straight line is not for naturalness, it's for framing, just like the sides and top of the tank are straight.


If the tank is the frame, the substrate is part of the scape, correct? The undulations of the substrate are part of natural forces that shaped the surface. Wind and or water acting on the surface causing turbulence and depressions in the substrate. That's how I look at it. :bounce:


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

You're thinking about this rationally which is not what you should do. If you look at it long enough you'll eventually see why there shouldn't be any kind of curve. It's most obviously wrong if it's frowning because it directs the eyes toward the corners. When it's smiling, it directs the eye toward the dip. There is nothing about the substrate that needs so much attention drawn to it. The subject is within the frame, not the frame itself. A straight line best serves subject by being innocuous.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> You're thinking about this rationally which is not what you should do. If you look at it long enough you'll eventually see why there shouldn't be any kind of curve. It's most obviously wrong if it's frowning because it directs the eyes toward the corners. When it's smiling, it directs the eye toward the dip. There is nothing about the substrate that needs so much attention drawn to it. The subject is within the frame, not the frame itself. A straight line best serves subject by being innocuous.


Straight lines and regular patterns are rare in nature. Nuff said. I can't help but notice that you like to "critique" but don't have any tanks listed in this forum to be "critiqued". Looks like your stuck on making CO2 regulators appear "unobstructed"? Hope you can move on. 

nojke- commented on the right corner change in your tank journal. will be watching your progress. Great job! :bounce:


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

Solcielo

I have since changed the scape since these last pictures. I actually went higher in the back right corner, so it doesn't look as equally balanced. I either wish my tree was a little bit smaller, or my tank was bigger. 


I see what you are saying about the framing, but to me it flows with the tank. You eyes tend to go left to right correct? So you see the tree with the angle coming towards the front and the ravine, then back up into the slope to the right and back. I wish this ravine wasn't in the center of the tank, but with the size of the rocks I had and the size of the tree, and tank it just worked out like that.

Given that this is my first tank. And my own style. I think i did alright.

BeastMaster

Thanks man!!


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

BeastMaster said:


> *Straight lines and regular patterns are rare in nature. Nuff said.* I can't help but notice that you like to "critique" but don't have any tanks listed in this forum to be "critiqued". Looks like your stuck on making CO2 regulators appear "unobstructed"? Hope you can move on.


You are still thinking about this rationally. It's art.
As for the last part, you're taking this personally and making ad hominem attacks.



nojke said:


> I see what you are saying about the framing, but to me it flows with the tank. You eyes tend to go left to right correct? So you see the tree with the angle coming towards the front and the ravine, then back up into the slope to the right and back. I wish this ravine wasn't in the center of the tank, but with the size of the rocks I had and the size of the tree, and tank it just worked out like that.


Left to right viewing is the result of reading conditioning. In art, that shouldn't happen. Your eye should immediately focus onto something, the focal point and the main subject is the branch. This focal point should not be so strong that you can't look at anything else. It should allow your eye to break away naturally to view other aspects. As for the valley, you create that within the scape, not with the substrate line.

Amano would make the exact same criticisms as I did.


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

> Left to right viewing is the result of reading conditioning. In art, that shouldn't happen. Your eye should immediately focus onto something, the focal point and the main subject is the branch. This focal point should not be so strong that you can't look at anything else. It should allow your eye to break away naturally to view other aspects. As for the valley, you create that within the scape, not with the substrate line.
> 
> Amano would make the exact same criticisms as I did.


Well the left to right conditioning this is a result of my graphic design background. Can't change what's embedded in my head I guess.

Also the framing I always viewed was the top and bottom black rim of my tank not the substrate. I was even thinking about making a slope from the right front side towards the middle of the tank. I think I subliminally made this look somewhat like a cave maybe? So this is a slice of what it would look like.

Don't really want change anything now after I started my DSM. But I appreciate the creative criticism.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

I have to agree with Solcielo's advice about the substrate line looking best when straight across the front. With that being said I think people might be able to take your critiques a little more to heart Solcielo if you would show some of your work. It's hard to take a critique when you can't see if the one doing the critiquing has the history of work to prove they know what their talking about. I mean I wouldn't take a musical critique from someone that has never picked up an instrument.


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

Ok, so I wanted to look at some winning tank in the aquascaping world and really look at the substrate "line". Just to see how many others use a curved substrate line across the front.

These are just a few. 

2013 AGA Aquascaping contest Best of show and 1st place
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2013/show57.html

2013 AGA Aquascaping 3rd place
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2013/show279.html

This one won either 1st or 2nd place in the Best of Show 2006 in the AGA Aquascaping Contest 
http://www.aquascapingworld.com/gallery/images/1/1_Syrah_Large.jpg

Not to say my scape is anything close to this, but to say a straight line is the way to go is not always correct.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm not saying there can't be nice scapes without a perfectly straight line of substrate because there can as you've shown. And the most important things is that you like the tank. After all you will be the one looking at the tank on a daily basis.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

nojke said:


> Ok, so I wanted to look at some winning tank in the aquascaping world and really look at the substrate "line". Just to see how many others use a curved substrate line across the front.
> 
> These are just a few.
> 
> ...


In the IAPLC 2013, Amano made a criticism of the smiling substrate of the first scape you linked. It's a good layout, but the raised sides compress the scape and reduces the scope of size.

As for the other layouts, just because it placed well doesn't mean it is without flaws.


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

Thats epic.

Where did you get the lava rock>?
Also - what substrate is that?


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> You are still thinking about this rationally. It's art.
> As for the last part, you're taking this personally and making ad hominem attacks.


Yeah, I guess I'm calling you out. Please show us some of your examples of aquarium art. I try to create little scenes of nature, so that's where I'm coming from. And BTW, your comment "Amano would make the exact same criticisms as I did" is kind of boastful don't you think? Waiting for a tank journal. :bounce: 

I apologize nojke for your thread being used for this exchange but, need to weed out the "posers"?


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

Borsig said:


> Thats epic.
> 
> Where did you get the lava rock>?
> Also - what substrate is that?


Went to a local rock quarry place and found these black lava rocks. The substrate is Aqua Soil Amazonia.


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

BeastMaster said:


> Yeah, I guess I'm calling you out. Please show us some of your examples of aquarium art. I try to create little scenes of nature, so that's where I'm coming from. And BTW, your comment "Amano would make the exact same criticisms as I did" is kind of boastful don't you think? Waiting for a tank journal. :bounce:
> 
> I apologize nojke for your thread being used for this exchange but, need to weed out the "posers"?


NP. I'll go grab some popcorn. LOL. But I wouldn't mind seeing some of Solcielo's work.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

nojke said:


> But I wouldn't mind seeing some of Solcielo's work.


You and about 10 other people but don't hold your breath as I have asked him several times with no response. I only think its fair to show others your work if you're going to always be giving critiques like your an expert. 

And out of curiosity I'm curious of the critique that Solcielo would give my tank so feel free Solcielo to critique away on my tank. The links are in my signature.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

To take this thread back, one of the issues with sloped scapes is holding the slope. Substrate has this annoying habit of leveling.

A lot if award-winning scapes do not survive much beyond the picture taking stage.

Not to say it is impossible, but that would require some design, forethought, and subsequent maintenance. Howi long do you think that white sand can remain white? 2-3 days, ime 

v3


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

OVT said:


> To take this thread back, one of the issues with sloped scapes is holding the slope. Substrate has this annoying habit of leveling.
> 
> A lot if award-winning scapes do not survive much beyond the picture taking stage.
> 
> Not to say it is impossible, but that would require some design, forethought, and subsequent maintenance. Howi long do you think that white sand can remain white? 2-3 days, ime


I agree, with regard to the extreme slope, I am attempting the same thing with my project tank "Kahawai". I'm using the rockwork to maintain the slope angle and hopefully the HC root system will keep it there for the long haul. After a really prolonged DSM period and 7 weeks post flood, the slope remains intact. If I keep away from digging fauna, I should be able to keep the scape elevations for some time. :bounce:


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

Is that all substrate on the slope? Or did you put some rocks or foam under there?

I put a few large rocks in my slopes, so hopefully that helps hold it up.

What kinda of substrate are you using?


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

nojke said:


> Is that all substrate on the slope? Or did you put some rocks or foam under there?
> 
> I put a few large rocks in my slopes, so hopefully that helps hold it up.
> 
> What kinda of substrate are you using?


I placed a 1" high base of quartz gravel on the bottom and then poured Aqua Soil normal into the corner (check out my tank journal "Kahawai" for details). I then pushed and positioned the seiryu stones into there present orientation and then finished with a 1/2" coat of Amazonia powder. The HC seems to be doing it's job, holding the substrate in position and preventing the dreaded "leveling".

As a suggestion for your scape, the uppermost stone in the right rear corner may hold back the substrate better if it was turned 90 degrees but I understand that you've already started your DSM. Again, good luck and keep us updated with progress pics. :bounce:


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## nojke (Jan 18, 2014)

OK, so I've been growing my DSM for almost 6 months to the dot. I am thinking of flooding the tank sometime this week. Here is the progress.










Montre Carlo looks great and added some Mini Xmas moss to the Bonsai tree.

So before I make a mistake somewhere, my question being a rookie is.. 

1. When I flood the tank I heard that I should cut down the light period. Do I go down to 6 hours? Currently I'm at 10 hours. 

2. Since I don't have CO2. I bought some Flourish Excel. What should my dosage be for the 40g breeder? How many times a week etc? Is Excel enough? Or do I need any other ferts?

3. Also what do I need to do for my water changes? I heard alot of different advice, but I'm thinking at least 75% change for the first 2 changes every other day. and maybe a 30% every few days there after?

Any other things that I'm missing?


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Any updates? :bounce:


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## treyLcham (Sep 9, 2014)

Looks really nice  


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