# How to properly make a mound/hill??



## chrisl (May 6, 2004)

Ok, I give up. I tried making my back left corner a mound/elevated area. I stacked palmsize rocks first, then covered w/ eco complete 

**(I'm starting to not like this stuff! WAY to light. As soon as I get a stemmed plant put in it's back out again. Heck just withdrawing the tweezers after replanting causes them to come back out. Now I understand why peeps are adding black moon sand to this substrate!)**

. Anyway, the eco just settles or falls off the edges. Which leaves me a remaining mound, but w/ very little eco to cover the darn roots..or worse, I hit the rocks and there's no place to put the roots. This is esp. for swords and cryptos w/ these larger root masses!! 

Really teeing me off! I need a mound, that'll keep the substrate in place as well as keep a good 3-4"s of substrate so I can bury my rootballs.

What's the way you guys are getting these huge 'valleys' and mounds out of substrate?

Please help w. some ideas??

Thanks!!!
Chris


----------



## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

You could buy some slate and break it up and form a little retaining wall out of it. If seen it done in tanks and I think it looks pretty cool.


----------



## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

I have never been able to get mounds and valleys out of "any" substrate without using slate to build a wall to retain it...

The only way I have been able to really getr a lot of depth is by using "filler" substrate of very course gravel or pebbles as a base layer.. And then covering that in a finer substrate.. some will filter down through the course material, however the large pebble sizes can't shift too much


----------



## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Here is a guide to building a slate wall I drafted a while ago...

http://aquafiend.plantedtank.net/slatewall.html


----------



## pineapple (Jan 22, 2004)

The rock-work is the key to building a mound, in my experience. And, the rocks should come before most other things in setting up the tank. Changing substrate geography after water and plants are growing is hard, especially if slopes are to be put in (personal experience speaking here).

Think of terrestrial landforms always. Take a look at a hill and you will see that it is higher than the surroudning countryside because the rocks of which it is formed are harder and less prone to erosion. Thinking along those lines, build the hill first out of rocks which go all the way to the tank floor, if possible. The peak of the hill or mound can form a sort of nest structure in which to capture or hold enough substrate for plants to grown in. Let the subtrate settle/sediment around it and you will gain a natural looking topology.

Andrew Cribb


----------



## chrisl (May 6, 2004)

Guess I should've realized my setup wasn't gonna hold well. Esp. w/ light subst.s like eco complete.

Good idea on the slate wall. i was originally wanting to stay w. the same rock material if possible...a trip back to landscape store needed for a check of finding the right stuff. 

Do you think I should just stick w/ using eco or try filling in bottom w/ sand and topping w/ eco? Not sure it matters.

Thx again for help!
Chris


----------



## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

If you are trying to build height the last thing you want as filler is sand. Sand will simply settle out... probably faster then your Eco Complete...


----------



## chrisl (May 6, 2004)

Really? I read somewhere today of 'terracing' in a dutch garden and they used sand as base. I have enough eco to do w/out sand though so i'll hold off. Going to make a 'preformed' ledge from stone and silicon then slide in place and fill. should work pretty well.

And nice web page btw Gareth. all those tanks in one room..makes for convient maintenance lol I'll add a few houseplants to my room to help w/ humidity..good idea!

Chris


----------



## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

chrisl said:


> What's the way you guys are getting these huge 'valleys' and mounds out of substrate?
> 
> Please help w. some ideas??
> 
> ...


The best solution I've read about is to create larger mounds/valleys than you want (taking settling into consideration), plant your substrate cover (something that roots well, so no Riccia), let it embed, them re-form the valleys & mounds (with plants & all) after the plant has established well. The roots will help retain the shape much as they
fight erosion on land.


----------



## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

I just wanna toss in that I have NO problems keeping plants rooted in eco complete...even when planting individual stems of hair grass. Do you not have a deep enough substrate or something? You'll need 2" or more, and I do suggest after planting that you pack down the eco just a little bit.
Honestly I only have problems in my tank with flourite...it doesn't seem to hold plants, particularly glosso and baby tears, worth a darn.


----------



## E. Simpson (Oct 18, 2003)

Could you use some sort of clay to mold a wall and form the hill?Might dissolve though I suppose.


Ernie


----------



## chrisl (May 6, 2004)

Yeah, clay I'd think would dissolve. And i have 8 bags of Eco in my 75...so i have plenty of substrate. It's just not as solid as to the old gravel I had in there. I'll try the tapping down a bit, haven't done that. But once down, they're staying down unless there's too much water agitation. I got some more rock today so I'll see what I can come up with.


----------



## TommyBoy (Jan 7, 2005)

*some more suggestions but want a 2nd opinion on...*

1) Matthew Christian in his book on aquarium desing published by Barrons talks of using polymer clay and polystyrene (is that styrofoam?) as OK decorations in a tank. Certainly if you do not heat your substrate, perhaps these could be used to create the retaining wall or the mound foundation much like the use of rocks. Can they be used if you do heat your substrate? Anyone have any experience and/or an opinion on using these? Is floral styrofoam (used to hold stems in place much like a "frog") safe to use? I could see the also allowing one to easily embed smaller flat rocks to help keep the eco-complete from settling too flat.

2) I've found 2 citations of shaping wire mesh and covering it with cork or other wood scraps. Anyone have any experience and/or an opinion on using wire mesh? And, what kind did you use? I could see using wire mesh for light weight, and for steep gradations.

3) I've found several references to using fiberglass strips, acrylic strips, or even cut glass strips set up in the verticle. Again, anyone have any experience and/or an opinion on using these? Wood, rocks, etc can be glued (vis silicone) to hide the ckear wall, however, one source says their transparentcy and dark substrate means they are not very visible even when they are exposed. Anyone have any experience? ...or advice?

4) My local Home Depot has a flexible, brown plastic and even some flexible 3/16 inch wood gardern edging that could be cut to form strips for hill and valley/terracing hidden "retainer walls." Has anyone ever used edging? The plastic kind seems to be some kind of recycled plastic, like the park bench boards. Up front I am concerned how the plastic may affect the eggs of the fish (NOTE: Plastics are being reported as generally affecting the viability of the eggs of Gulf Coast crocodiles, genetics of human embryoes, etc.) and the fish themselves. Anyone have any experience? ...or advice?

5) Finally, I read in an article that Amano uses cardboard strips to vertically separate his substrates when he is layering, but removes the cardboard just before or when he fills the tank. What would happen if one were to leave the the cardboard in the tank as a hidden retaining wall and allow it to degrade over time? Anyone ever tried this? ...Any advice?

TIA,
--TommyBoy


----------



## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

You can use rocks slate or even driftwood. I use the driftwood method because I feel that gives a more natural look. If you go down to the local river you will see that where there is wood laying on the riverbed it will most likely have one side with more riverbed material on one side than the other. 

All you need to do is to find some small pieces of driftwood and place them where you want to make your raised bed. Similar to the pictures of the Slate wall method, instead you are using wood.

You can then add some moss or anubias to the wood. Ferns will do great on wood too.


----------



## Not Mister Green (Feb 15, 2005)

*sounds like we might be talking about a BERM...*

Main Entry: berm 
Pronunciation: 'b&rm
Function: noun
Etymology: French berme, from Dutch berm strip of ground along a dike; akin to Middle English brimme brim
: a narrow shelf, path, or ledge typically at the top or bottom of a slope; also : a mound or wall of earth <a landscaped berm>


----------



## Pia (Dec 20, 2004)

GDominy said:


> Here is a guide to building a slate wall I drafted a while ago...
> 
> http://aquafiend.plantedtank.net/slatewall.html


WOW! :icon_eek: 

I love hardscaping just as much if not more than I love planting and now I need a new tank so I can build a slate wall! The look is really great!


----------



## m249saw (Jul 10, 2005)

So would Eco-complete be dense enough to do the rock wall? I see you used gravel thats why I asked.


----------



## TommyBoy (Jan 7, 2005)

*My new experiments...*

Well guys, I've gone ahead and made 2 mounds in my latest tank, sorat as a test:
#1) rock wall method.
#2) submerged driftwood scraps method.

I'll try to provide pictures after my tank cycles and all.

#1) The rock wall method is based on GDominy's. MANY thanks!!! This mound is situated along one side of the tank also kinda like GDominy's example.

I went to the local landscaping rock shop and found an uneven yet flat kinda "J"-shaped rock about 1.25" tall by 2" across by 8" long. Paid $0.29/lb. I also stacked along the 3 "outsides" of it and on top of it some palm-sized or smaller water-rounded rocks (given by same merchant as gratis). These are to help make the rock placement look something like a river bank. I also made sure they complemented the "bedrock's" colors when wet. Next I added some leftover Florabase into the hollow made by these rocks and covered it with a thick layer of eco-complete. 

The idea of using Florabase came from the website of a guy's website where he says that he uses cut-off bottoms of plastic bottles filled with Schultz APS (aquatic potting soil) as the basis of his mounds, and from a demonstartion by Luis Navarro where he uses Schultz APS with eco-complete. From what I can tell, Schultz APS is a product similar to Florabase. Since I had 1/2 a bag of the latter, why buy something else this time [NOTE: Schultz APS is way cheaper so next time I'll switch]?

I saw at the lanscaping supplies store a neat steel tool for splitting the stones. If you want to, I bet one could create their "J"-shaped stone out of any flat stone using one of these tools.

#2) The submerged driftwood (some scraps of African root) came from an LFS for 5 bucks a bag (my! more expensive than the stone). I got the idea of using them from looking at their shape as a small pile and realizing they made a nice base-shape. I was going to use them along the sides of the mound kinda like a paver, but then the idea of them acting as the core of the mound won out in my mind for the moment. This mound is out on the middle of the tank. It is also lower in height. Again, I used some Florabase (a little bit) covered by massive amounts of eco-complete. 

For both mounds, I took John P's advice:


> ...create larger mounds/valleys than you want (taking settling into consideration), plant your substrate cover (something that roots well, so no Riccia), let it embed, them re-form the valleys & mounds (with plants & all) after the plant has established well. The roots will help retain the shape


I am also intentionally NOT introducing any substrate dwellers/foragers other than shrimp and worms: no cory cats, no loaches, no cichlids, no flounders, etc.. And, if I can ever find out here any store that carries 3M Colorquartz (which I read about in another forum discussion), I may add that as the top-layer to help weigh down the eco-complete.

Finally a word on polymer clay...Faber never responded to my queries about the contnets of their and the toxicity of these ingredients to aquarium fish. The maker of another brand that I found in Micahel's did so. He advised me that not all modeling clay is polymer, some is "wax-based." He also seemed interested in following up with his chemist on aquarium fish toxicity. Perhaps someday we can return to that idea after they start posting or knowing whether toxicity is an issue.

I can keep you-all posted if'n ya like as my hills and valleys decline with age.

--TommyBoy


----------

