# Brown algae for Months



## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

Hi, I am new to this forum but was hoping someone could help me out with my diatoms problem. I began a project of making an aquascape at the beginning of last summer (7ish months ago). I decided to do a Nano (10 gallon) low tech setup with some easy to grow plants. I used eco complete soil, a nicrew led light, an aqueon quiet flow filter. The plants I included were Java ferns, java moss, staurogyne repens and water wisteria. My goal was to carpet the tank with the repens. Since I began, I have had terrible success and diatoms have continuously thickly coated everything in the aquarium. Especially the SR. This has caused stunted growth and melting. I bought Nerite snails to hopefully combat the problem but they hardly do anything it seems... I also dose with flourish excel to add carbon and originally planted flourish root tabs. I have tried adjusting light period (down to 6 hours) for about a month. This led to slower diatom growth but zero plant growth. I eventually bumped it back to 10 hours as some people told me more light would allow plant growth and green algae to compete. This just led to thicker brown algae. I tried buying phosguard in the hopes of removing excess silicate and phosphate that I assumed my tap water must have, (did this for about a month) with seemingly no success at all. I spoke with a LFS and they said to try using RO water as it has no silicate or nitrate present. I did that for a month with zero success. I now am back to filtering my tap water with phosguard before water changes but still don't seem to be making any headway.

To be fair I have made changes to the aquarium so I wondered if maybe I was reseting the cycle or something. I ended up stirring up the substrate a bit when I changed a piece of driftwood out. I noticed a lot of detritus came up so I decided to pull out the smothered SR and gravel vac the whole thing thinking maybe I had just accumulated to much detritus from over feeding early on. And that is where I am now. Still with lots of diatoms...

I have been checking my water parameters to make sure the cycle has been maintaind. 

Ammonia zero 
Nitrite zero 
Nitrate 5-10ppm (my tap water is 5ppm)
pH is naturally high too (around 7.6)

I'm considering ripping all the SR out for now and planting it in a sealed container in open air under light so that it can bounce back again (I've done this in the past) it allows it to grow without diatom problems.


Does anyone have any idea what would be causing such a stubborn diatom issue? I feel like I'm fundamentally doing something wrong.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Welcome to TPT.

A couple of pictures of plants with algae could help.

I have been battling a similar problem in one tank for 2+ years. I've tried everything I could think of to no effect. Let's hope the community can pitch in.


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

I'll try to take some pics tonight. Do you have multiple tanks with only 1 tank that has this problem? Is there anything that your tank has in common with my setup?

Here are some pictures. I recently cleaned off some of the Java fern but you can still see some leaves are coated. A few of the SR are relatively cleam from a snail but not many. I notice that it seems the diatoms are worst near the substrate. It's possible this is just because there is less flow, but could it also be a buildup of silicates/ nutrients? Debating yanking the SR out and just doing multiple deep gravel Vacs to try to sucks out as much of the diatoms as possible (should also remove silicates since their shells are silicate).


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

At the moment, I see no commonalities and your post put a big question mark over my prime suspect. You are using Eco-Complete while I am using AquaSoil, which I thought was the root of my problems. My tank is 36x18x18 and is the only tank out of 8 that I am really struggling with. I cannot pinpoint what is soo different in this tank from the rest. I set up the tank with used AquaSoil and 1 bag of new AquaSoil and the tank had no end of various algae from the start. I have re-built this tank twice already and about to do it again. If it was my only tank I would have given up already. Nothing in my 20+ years of having multiple planted tanks tough me how to deal with this one. And I am certainly dead set on figuring it out.

At the moment, I have what looks like brown dust everywhere. Diatoms? I am not sure. The only algae I did not have in this tank is BBA. I've changed light intensity, spectrum and light durration, LED light and t5 lights. I've tried no ferts and lots of ferts. Large water changes and no water changes. Capped AquaSoil with sand, bare bottom for 6 months, Increased flow, decreased flow, used PhosGuard, co2, no co2, different plants,.

I've read a number of threads on similar issues, looking for a common factor. We'll figure it out, eventually.


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

You said you tried bare bottom? How did that work out?


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

ahhhh, that's the same algae build up I have on the glass, substrate, etc. in my 5 gallon. Diatoms you say. My tank has the same Ammo/Nitri/Nitra readings as yours. As it is now, I'm vacuuming substrate ever other day as I see it growing on my substrate, glass cleaning maybe in 2-3 weeks time as it starts to look like yours but I won't wait that long to get to your look, lol. I've tried Phosguard, light siesta 3 on 4 off 3 on to no avail with my weak oem light(3leds). I've tried Excel with no results but have since stopped. I've also tried Tetra Algae Control but it only affected my swordtail hanging at the surface gasping for air. LOL. My tank been setup for approx. 8 months now. I do feel the more nutrients I apply the faster this algae comes back.
It's disgusting!

I just acquired a better light source so ... and a new plant so... . Will I ever find that balance? According to API phosphate test it's nearly zero and thinking it's silicates in water source but I have no tester to test that.

hmmm, they say diatoms will go away on it's own, now, would it be wiser to just let the diatoms be to see if it consumes it's food source and starves itself to extinction? To do that would be not to clean and no water changes as long as Ammo, Nitra and Nitri are at tolerant levels for my fishes? or using ro water? if there's no phosphate or silicate can the diatoms live off some other nutrient in the tank? But then again isn't that what Phosguard fer? to clean out the diatoms food source, silicate/phosphate?
I have no ro water, maybe could try doubling up the dosage of Phosguard to see what happens.


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## KeroRocks (Jan 8, 2019)

I had some pretty serious diatoms in two of my tanks. I got nerite snails and bristlenose plecos. The bristlenose is eating like mad and the tank looks 100 times better. The Nerite snails have done some great work on the leaves of my Dwarf Anubis too.


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## Superfishysteve (Feb 10, 2019)

Whats the stocking of the tank?

How long has it been cycled/set up for? 

I have a similar problem but mine seems to be clearing up


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

One thing I am wondering is if you don't remove brown algae (via wiping and vacuum) do they just break back down into silicate to feed the next generation?

As to stocking. I had about half a dozen neons until last week when they contracted ich and it wiped them out. I now have a single panda Cory who I think is immortal. He's been with me for 3 years I think, nothing seems to bother the guy.


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

I did a good substrate vacuum yesterday and I had to do another wc today as the algae was building up on the substrate in one days time. Sick!

this time I wiped the side glass that's under the colored gravel and vaccumed the brownish and black build up. SAD

I must admit, a 4yo kid who knew no better, dumped alot of fish flakes in my 5 gallon tank a month ago in which I cleaned up the best i could without disturbing the substrate.


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

The same happened to me although it happened not long after I set the tank up. A family friend fed them while I was gone and although I specified the amount, for some reason people think fish need to eat more... I thought I got most of it but I guess not. I pulled all my SR out so that I could begin vacuuming. 

I've done 2 gravel vacuums this week hoping to pull out diatoms, and whatever is feeding them. I was shocked at the amount of junk coming out! I'll probably try to do one more force good measure.


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

Jah410 said:


> The same happened to me although it happened not long after I set the tank up. A family friend fed them while I was gone and although I specified the amount, for some reason people think fish need to eat more... I thought I got most of it but I guess not. I pulled all my SR out so that I could begin vacuuming.
> 
> I've done 2 gravel vacuums this week hoping to pull out diatoms, and whatever is feeding them. I was shocked at the amount of junk coming out! I'll probably try to do one more force good measure.



omg! and I thought I had it bad. Same here, after vacuuming the gravel and looked into the bucket there was a lot of junk and the water smelled. I thought my charcoal/Phosguard would take care of the smell, phophate, silica but it's not so. AHHHHH! thanks for pointing that out, the Phosphate leeching out of the fish food flakes that's in the gravel could be the cause. It seems I'll need to do a couple of thorough gravel vacs in the near future. I'm debating if I should replace my substrate now thinking either that or removing and cleaning my substrate, I'm thinking the algae build up could also be growing on the bottom glass under the substrate.
please keep us up to date in fixing your problem


the problem with this there's no instant fix and needing patience to see if what you've done fixes the problem. "sigh"

hmmm my 5 gallon tank maybe small enough to clean under and replace the substrate within a half day.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

I've only had brown algae when using tap water instead of RO.


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

I did another 50% water change and disturbed the substrate to see if the bottom was growing algae cause I had been observing bubbles coming out of the substrate. The bottom glass doesn't look messed up with filth/algae but there was a lot of smelly decaying particles within the gravel.

Geez, is this type of algae growing in the substrate and glass a normal thing for freshwater aquariums? It's fustrating trying to keep a clean 5 gallon tank and I can only imagine most of you who have larger tanks and multiple tanks at that.

I removed/ditched my elodea densa which I tried to grow for a month, it looks like it's melting even if some roots seemed to be getting longer.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

If you have no light then nothing should grow. Actually I think my brown algae was the only thing that grew in lower light.

Once the silicates are eaten up the brown algae should disappear is my guess.


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

I'm wondering if the Nilocg Thrive contents of Potassium Phosphate could be adding to the supposed diatom problem I'm having?

an update, I've a Fluval Nano light for a week and it's way more lighted than the stock Aqueon led hood so... and this algae was growing before the new light so... .I've been vacuuming my substrate the best I can for the past week(5 times) and will do so again today. My elodea melted, it was planted but I disturbed it a lot and it never took hold for the 3-4 weeks I had it but it really started to melt in a bad way just recently. My week old bacopa seems to be ok although I moved it a lot vacuuming the gravel.

the vacuuming has taken most of the left over food, brownish algae? and watnots out of the gravel but the algae keeps coming back the next day. I'd like to hold back the Niclog Thrive but am afraid the new bacopa needs the nutrients from it. I do notice this algae is more pronounced where there was a concentration of the [email protected] and the recent elodea placement. I'll try to keep on vacuuming the substrate for another week or so to see what happens. "sigh" Luckily it's only a 5gallon tank.

I would have thought my swordtail and neon tetra would have gotten used to my hands in their habitat by now, lol they should know I'm not out to get them


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

JAH410 let me say 1st that I'm a newbie at this

okay now that I got that off my shoulders I'm thinking at least in my case having bga. Again, I'm no expert but from looking at your pics, I've have that same dark greenish shadow on the glass around the substrate, could that be bga too. idk? or maybe we both got more than diatoms. What makes me think it is is when I wipe off the supposed algae off the glass it comes off green on my mitt and it also looks black too near and under the substrate glass like a thin mat/slime, the water smells but doesn't aquarium water smell? I've also read bga can come in different colors so
Another thought I have is that I don't give the algae the time to grow much before I clean and maybe it was a bloom in 2 days time that made me realize it may not be diatoms. idk

my Ammo, Nitri, Nitra 0,0,5 ph 7.8 temp near 80 as yours and the API Phosphate test shows what seems to be 0 readings. I use Phosguard but still this algae pops up on the gravel and glass overnight and it's pretty good in 2 days time.

I have had Erythromycin on hand since day one of this hobby and will try that to see if this cures this unwanted growth.


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

Definitely let me know if that helps clear stuff up. It is possible it's not all diatoms that's the problem. I wish I had a microscope to be able to view a sample with.


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

Jah410 said:


> Definitely let me know if that helps clear stuff up. It is possible it's not all diatoms that's the problem. I wish I had a microscope to be able to view a sample with.



will do, I just did my 2nd dose of erythromycin today. I had the same thoughts of a microscope but was thinking it may have to be a powerful expensive one. On the other hand there's alot of info on the net that shows pictures of the different types of algae that one may have. Green water, green spot is easy, diatoms maybe another easy one to distinguish, although there are others where you may have to be well versed to know what it is when it's in it's early stage of growth, lol. that's just my opine there.

I'm now seeing bba and will deal with it using h2o2(peroxide), will try to hold off doing that after the Erythromycin treatment. Geez, the outer leaf edges are black on my nana petite and windelov. 

How this can spin one's mind wondering of the bba, ferts/light/plant combo, too many water changes creating unstable parameters. man i tell you.

I'm thinking logically that I have no base settings to go back on to where my tank was stable without algae and with some plant growth. Introducing to many variables trying to fix algae problems, ferts, excel, lighting, etc., if there weren't the 2 inhabitants I'd start all over again with just a planted tank and getting it somewhat balanced before adding fishes. As it is now, it's just trying to rid the algae(s) not knowing the source of what causing all this unwanted growth. LOL, there's a lot to be had to know what you have and learn here. This is NOT not so easy of a hobby. YIKEs!

I'm LOST! but it's keeping this old man's mind whirling about. Beats lying down and becoming a couch potato watching tv all day.


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

Update

So I am approaching 2 weeks since I first made this thread. You can read throughout my previous posts what I have been doing in the meantime (mainly lots of gravel vacs). Since I cleaned out the gravel well, I have seen no diatoms emerging. I decided to replant a single SR during this waiting period about a week ago. I have not seen any diatom growth on the leaves. Perhaps a slight amount of green algae, but not serious, and not diatoms.

It make be too early to say this was successful but it is showing promise. Even though I was filtering my addition water through phosguard to remove phosphates and silicate introduced to the tank, perhaps all the additional junk in the gravel was still adding these nutrients to the water column. It would explain why using DO water did not seem to help at all. After vacuuming, I've been adding and replacing phosguard to my filter to hopefully remove anything kicked up during vacuumes. 

I will continue to monitor and update again when I am more confident in the results.


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

thanks for the update!


I'm done with the erythromycin treatment, cleaned the tank and disturbed the gravel substrate and there was still a lot of [email protected], not only that but it seems my colored gravel may be flaking(not sure). My newly planted bacopa is growing roots in the substrate(yay!) as I uprooted them to try to clean the substrate. I'll change my substrate in the weeks ahead.

yeah! I think it's the filty substrate that's causing our problems, we'll see.
as like in your case cleaning the substrate well has stopped the onslaugh of that brownish algae(diatoms?) from returning in a day or two.

like in your pic the algae on the front glass under the subtrate, I have gravel as you may have too and I can see the light penetration into that areas of glass. Makes me think the algae grows because of the filth, the light and no water flow in the gravel. But what do I know?


JAH410 good luck and I hope everything clears up for you


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

Jah410, Hows everything going on with algae?
did stirring up your substrate cause anymore probs?


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

It's difficult to say so far. I planted a single SR and then about 5 more 5 days later. The one I first planted had a little brown algae on the leaves (I mostly rubbed them off). The brown algae grew back about within 10 days and slowly spread to leaves that were new and had no algae. The other SR which had no alage on the leaves is now 6 days in with no alage signs whatsoever. Will continue to monitor.


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

It's been about 10 days now and unfortunately I'm seeing brown algae growing on the SR again.

I'm gonna pull it out again and plant it back in cups under a light so that it doesn't get choked out by the alage. I don't really know what to do at this point. I found that my well water has a high amount of nitrate present (20-30ppm). I'm back to using RO water and hoping that I just need to wait out the alage, I'm not too hopeful though. My aquarium is obviously cycled, I get no ammonia or nitrite readings even after a week. Using the RO has pushed my nitrate back down to 5ppm and I can probably go lower than that if I keep using pure RO. I just don't wanna stunt plant growth because of the total lack of nitrate. 

Does anyone have any more ideas? There really shouldn't be any reason for me to still have diatoms with this mature of a tank. Getting very close to quitting the planted aquarium hobby and just back to the fish...


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## Radia75 (Mar 10, 2019)

I am experiencing the same issue. I have a 4.4 gallon tank with Cuba, S Repens, Rynekii mini and java moss. The tanks been running for 3 months with only minor stunted growth issues. After removing some hardscape I must have started this whole debacle. Absolutely everything is covered in this thick brown muck. I’m only now starting to research how to tackle this as above and beyond frequent water changes and experimentation with photo period, filter media and Co2 admission I haven’t done much else. It’s be my preference to take care of this with livestock and maintenance but I’m not sure that’ll do the trick.


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

Yeah I have not found that livestock help much in the matter. I see often where people say they got a single Nerite snail that cleaned the whole tank in days. I've found that my 4 Nerites in my 10 gallon do nearly nothing to combat the alage...every few days a see that they nibbled a little off of a leaf but otherwise nothing else.


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

according to my journal it's been about 16 days without a breakout of diatoms/brown algae. I've done alot of maintenance(filters/hoses(twice since this started), deep disturbing gravel vacs, etc.), used bleach dip, hydrogen peroxide, erythromycin and continue to use Excel(3x dosage) to combat other types of algae. I've also decreased light intensity, decreased time "on" and "peak light" hours. I do notice at least for me it's best to do a wc and light gravel vac at most by the 3rd day. Doing this I haven't come across a blooming diatom/brown muck outbreak on substrate. When I had the muck on substrate I noticed it grew faster in the dips of the substrate or behind hardscape and I believe it was due to less water flow in those areas by the 1st-3rd day after cleaning. It's a 5gallon tank and I read many comments it's harder to take care of than larger gallonage tanks. Maybe it's easier to unstablize water parameters and/or harder to control that having less water?

I believe my system is out of balance and there's still something that's contributing to it but it's not blooming.

from my perspective, the dirty substrate and having had someone dump in fishfood flakes abetted the diatom hence the bloom and other algae. A good cleaning has brought my tank back to where it was prior to all these problems. No more diatom or substrate brown muck overnight or of today before my wc at 3 day intervals.
I've read diatom is not an algae... light may or may not be a factor and seeing that the muck grew while I slept with lights out... and it even grew with lights on during the day... . I can conclude, at least in my scenario, with light or lack of didn't deter or enhance my diatom growth(as far as a bloom). Kind of unscientific but...


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## Jah410 (Feb 11, 2019)

Interesting findings, keep us updated as to how the tank performs once you stop with the vacs and all the other changes you've made.

How do you think the antibiotic helped? Did you find it made a difference?


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

For the most part of the chemicals used, it worked! I don't think it affects diatoms(idk), that's just my opine because I cleaned everything and the diatom "blooming" cleared up before I stated using the chemicals.

From the readings I've done, it seems you folks are on the right track trying to rid diatoms/brown algae as I've read many articles stating the same steps in a quest to rid it. I may never be able to stop diatoms in my scenario as I'm not considering using ro or deionized water or introduce algae eaters, etc.

There's one addition that I was considering, UV light, read up on what that does but have no experience using it myself so ymmv.

imo, I have to do water changes by the 3rd day or diatoms will start to show up. I have to keep my cleaning/vacs up or else... . I solved my diatom "blooming" cleaning substrate very well, filters and tubing, glass, etc.. Now it's a matter of keeping my tank clean, doing what I have to do to keep diatoms in check as I may never go the whole 9 yards(steps below) to see if all that will work keeping diatoms out of my tank. That is "my" problem, lol, there are steps I won't take at this time.

one author wrote:
1) remove 20% water shifting through substrate to remove fish waste that feeds diatom/brown algae, use ro, deionized water
2) use phosphate absorbing resin (Phosguard, etc. ?)
3) install UV
4) introduce algae eaters
5) monitor nitrates, keep it low
6) physically remove brown algae by hand/vac
7) cleaning filter, keep water clean

and it's conclusion: "What you have to do is to ensure that your fish tank is clean always. So, you need to change the water tank frequently and evacuate all the key factors that contribute to the growth of algae"

I have a feeling the Masters of Planted Tanks may not have to go thru all this. I think you need a lot of plant life and almost be a scientist to be in balance that keeps algae in check.


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## Superfishysteve (Feb 10, 2019)

My brown algae problems have improved so well in one of my tanks that I have to really look in order to see any.

I up'd my photo period to 12 hours I new light doesn't effect diatoms however my hope was to get green algae to compete with the diatoms.(I think this worked as I had green algae grow where I wiped brown algae off the glass) 

I also stopped cleaning the tank as much as I read somewhere that beneficial bacteria competes with diatoms and me stirring up the substrate may not have been helping.

I then fed my fish less only 2-3 times a week.

Currently my tank has almost got rid of all diatoms and my tank is cleaner than ever and tends to hold its own for longer periods between water changes. 

All this may just be a coincidence and they faded over time lol but I think the steps I made worked. Hope this helps any thoughts


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

SuperfishySteve, what is the gallons/liters of your aquarium?
what are your water parameters?
how often do you clean your tank and the amount of water change?
when you say green algae, what kine is it? gsa, gda, etc.?

I've read of others that do that, lol, algae competing against algae
if you were to clean up and defeat the green algae would the diatoms come back?


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## Superfishysteve (Feb 10, 2019)

It's a 30 us gallon. I believe the green algae to be green dust algae as its only on the glass. I scraped off a section of the back glass which I have left to do it's own thing and neither brown or green algae has returned in that spot... Yet lol. I still clean the tank often via water changes and syphon up some of the poop, but I don't stir the substrate or clean the rocks, plants, back glass...
I noticed the fast growing plants were the first to overcome the algae issue whereas the rooted slow growing plants took slightly longer.


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## FishWeaboo (Feb 27, 2019)

I would just throw a couple amano shrimp in TBH


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## Pocho (Dec 3, 2018)

an update
I think it's been just over a month since the end of my "diatom/brown algae "bloom" problem. I still have a bit of diatoms but it's not "blooming". I doing 20%(1gal.) water changes every 3-4 days since then. For the most part the diatom/brown algae seems to be waning a bit, less of it. I think vacuuming the substrate well helped but stirring all that up may have cause bba/bga in which I've rid of so far. I do have a little of green algae, on a couple rocks and glass though.
For my 5gal. tank I've been dosing .5ml Excel daily and dosing at wc's .125ml Thrive/.5ml Jungle StartRight, I've also used Phosguard in which I felt did not help much with the brown algae if at all. I've started to use and dosed twice the past week and a half Seachem Pristine, don't know for sure but it does seem to keep my water cleaner and less brown algae build up on gravel, but idk.

A little history of my diatoms "bloom", light or lack of did not stop it from blooming. As of recently, I've toned down my lighting quite a bit and shortened the hours and directed it to a portion of my substrate. I believe the diatoms grows with light more so than without it. The diatoms/brown algae today grows on my substrate where the light shines the most and not so much where the light is not directed at. oh well.

maybe my prior diligence of cleaning the substrate well getting the majority of the detritus/mulm, now my timely wc's and I believe the start of using Pristine has helped lessen it a bit more.

Maybe Pristine helps some, on the 4th day, the day of a wc the water is clear but the brown algae/diatom is still visible but it's NOT a bloom and just where my lights shines the most.

ammonia/nitrite 0's; Nitrate 10-20ppm; ph 7.8; phosphate ~0-0.5ppm; kh 4 gh 5


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