# Shrimp population dwindling. Help! Can't stop the black spot!



## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

I've posted about this a few times now, but figured I'd give it another shot.

A few months ago I noticed black flecks on a few of my CRS, this eventually spread to most of the colony in the 40 gallon breeder tank I raise them in. At one point there were well over 300 shrimp, and for awhile I didn't seem to be losing any, but in the last couple weeks it's become apparent that the population is dwindling. Rough guess, but I'd say there's maybe 150-175 left. Breeding has also come to a standstill. A few have berried over the winter, but only one is still carrying them, the rest seem to have dropped their eggs.

Anyway, I've been treating them with leaves, extra water changes, paraguard, maracyn 2, maracyn plus... And though sometimes the number and size of the black splotches decreases, they never go away. 

To make it even worse, the few that I have seen dead and scooped out before they could be eaten weren't even the ones worst hit with the disease.

I'm at my whits end here... I don't know what to do at this point, nothing I've tried has seemed to have any real effect.

I've thought about just culling every infected shrimp, but the majority of them seem to have at least some hint of black spot. I'd probably have basically no shrimp left. I don't think culling every affected shrimp would be possible anyway, as many of the infected shrimp are tiny and would be very difficult to catch, plus I have CBS as well if one of them was infected I couldn't tell.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Do you have UV running on that tank?>


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

No, I didn't think a UV sterilizer would do much good as it only kills free-floating bacteria, not ones on the shrimp's skins.

Has anyone ever used one to treat black spot?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Don't know, but it could help stop the spread of the disease, I'm assuming the bacteria is only manifested under the shells of shrimp, however it is probably present in the water column.


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

From what I've heard they usually get infected when they eat a shrimp that died from it. Unfortunately I can't be around all the time to watch for deaths, and my CRS are positively brutal when it comes to food. I've seen them attack each other over food pellets. Dead shrimp don't hang around very long.

But its probably worth a shot. Money is pretty tight right now, but I'll stop in at petsmart after work tomorrow and see if they have anything affordable. If not I'll have to order something online.


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## etbarry (Feb 22, 2009)

Some of my young also have small dark spots.. (now you have me worried...) But all are active and flesh appears clear and not white-ish which typically means bacteria are present. So I guess Ill just wait and watch. Anyone else with any info would be great. Not much info on the net.


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

Agreed, there isn't much info out there.

Honestly I don't think this is the usual black spot disease I've heard about because that seems to kill very quickly and I have some shrimp that have had it for ages that are still active and eating.

Here's a pic I took awhile ago of what the spots look like.










The spots are always symmetrical, and the ones on that particular shrimp are about average in size. Most are that big or smaller. But a few are much larger and cover the majority of the red patches.


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## AlisaR (Dec 7, 2011)

Don't spend more money at this point except to get a new tank and a new bag of food.

Get a new 10 gallon tank.
Pick out 12 of the best and least infected shrimp- sub adults.
Don't put anything from the old tank into the new tank except the shrimp
Nuke the old tank.


Then place the 10 gallon near a window if possible. Best and free uv filter there is.
If the medication isn't doing anything, discontinue it.

What are you feeding? You might have gotten a bad batch of food.


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## Krayz5183 (Nov 30, 2010)

So what info have people found on this so far? Any known cure? Or anything that slows it down? What causes it? And how easy is it to spread referring to people selling shrimp online?


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

wow that shrimp looks sick....sorry man ...i agree with alisa...nuke...but i wouldn't even move shrimps over...


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## AlisaR (Dec 7, 2011)

Yeah, but if his shrimp fund is low he might as well try to save a little of his colony.
I think it's a viral issue.

Actually, you might want to just start from scratch because any new shrimp you add to the old colony survivors (even if they recover) might get infected, starting the whole thing over again. But it's your call.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Although, if viral chances are pretty bad. I would nuke and start over. I would strongly advise against carrying over shrimp from one to the next tank, since there is no way to get rid of all the viral particles and all you'll do is transmit. 

60% rubbing alcohol will kill viruses pretty easily, and I would use that to disinfect your tank afterwards.


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

The idea of throwing out 150+ shrimp that I grew and raised myself feels like ripping out my own heart...

Buying new CRS probably isn't an option now anyway. I've been unemployed the last couple months, and just started working again. So money's very tight. If these guys go then I'll have to go back to cherry shrimp.

I have a 10 gallon tank in storage that I can set up, but zero room in my apartment for it. And if I'm destroying the colony anyway, I'd rather just let the disease run it's course and hope for a few shrimp to build up an immunity. I realize that's pretty unlikely considering how inbred CRS are, but it could happen.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

If he nukes he will have to nuke everything...filter...new hoses..bleach the connectors....maybe you can keep them in an bare bottom or a bucket with sponge filter and massive water changes and see how many make it though for the time being...while new tank cycles back up...see if there are any healthy ones to move back...


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

just pissing in the wind here, but what are the odds that its something growing in your substrate?


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## AlisaR (Dec 7, 2011)

I feel ya, they are like small shrimp dogs.

If you can't fit the 10 gallon in the apartment, you're going to have to do some really heavy culling in your tank. What size is it? Do a shrimp a gallon. Less chance of reinfection from each other due to higher water volume per shrimp.


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm probably at stage three aquarium addiction.

My shrimp tank is a 40 gallon breeder tank, takes up half of the family room. In the kitchen I have a 50 gallon corner tank with guppies and mollies, in the bedroom I have a 10 gallon with a pair of african clawed frogs, on my desk is a 1 gallon betta tank, and on the bookshelf is a 2 gallon that I'm attempting to grow triops in. (so far not doing too well with that, but that's a different issue)

You can probably imagine how my fiance feels about all these tanks in our tiny little place.


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

Actually, now that I'm thinking it over, nuking the tank might not even be possible. Material from this tank has made it to ALL my other tanks. Plants, rocks, driftwood, something that has been in this tank is in every other tank I own.

So even if I did successfully sterilize this tank and started over, sooner or later an infected drop of water will somehow make its way back into it and all that effort will have been for nothing.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

How about increasing the medication dosage? I mean, at this point you have nothing to lose if they get killed by the medication. I say stick as much in there as you can without killing them...if that's possible.


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## imke (Oct 6, 2010)

blacksheep998 said:


>


As the white on this shrimp is very bad, it may be a bad water quality issue in gerneral. How are your water parameter? Do you have high NO3 or PO4 readings? Maybe your soil is corrupted.


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

imke said:


> As the white on this shrimp is very bad, it may be a bad water quality issue in gerneral. How are your water parameter? Do you have high NO3 or PO4 readings? Maybe your soil is corrupted.


I don't have a phosphate test kit, and my GH test kit bottle leaked out and I need to get a new one when I get a chance. So I haven't tested those, but all the other water parameters are within normal levels last week when I checked.

The shrimp in that picture isn't normal for my colony, here's a picture I just took of one of the more badly infected individuals.










The one on the left is also showing smaller dark spots as well, but the shrimp to the right is still looking good.

Right now I'm leaning towards the idea of heavy culling and hoping that the remaining population survives and can rebound. Buying new shrimp just isn't an option currently, so if I lose the ones I have then I'm basically out of the hobby for at least a year, maybe longer depending on how badly my fiance puts us into debt with this whole wedding thing she's planning.


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## Lifeblood (Jan 31, 2012)

Just curious, what kind of "leaves" have you been using?


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

Red or pin oak, I've been using them since I started keeping shrimp.

I was going to pick up some indian almond leaves the other day when I had some cash, but ended up buying a second round of maracyn 2 instead. I might order some from aquabid though when I get paid on monday.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Maybe this will help? IDK, I just got it from Rachel yesterday...

http://www.academicjournals.org/ajfs/pdf/pdf2010/Sept/Minh et al.pdf


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