# Small and quiet canister filter?



## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Eheim 2211 would be my go to, even a 2213.

2213 might be a better option actually, a little more flow. 

You can throttle it back using the quick connect valves and use a "spin" style lily pipe outflow.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

I have an Eheim Ecco Pro 300 on my 25G (US gallons, 96 liters to the rest of us :grin2.

Quite compact, very quiet, very easy to maintain, fairly cheap to run. I did swap the intake/outlet for a modular spray bar and intake though.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Hujeta said:


> Hey, I'm looking for a recommendation on a canister filter that can be kept in a bedroom. Space is also limited so not larger than necessary, tank will be 22 gallons. I've mainly been using DIY dripfilters and similar where I didn't care too much for appearance and noise but now those things are important. Easy to service and durable are also important factors, built in heater is a + to get a cleaner tank.
> 
> Looking at Fluval 207, could that be a good choice?
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fluval-A44...uval+207&qid=1580323620&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-2


For a small tank like what you are talking about I would be tempted to use a small internal filter. That way you get the sound dampening of the tank/water itself to help you out. I am very light sleeper and fankly gave up on tanks in my bedroom years ago, but if I were going to do it that would be how I would go about it. The downside is that you need to hide the darn thing. If diy is your thing I would make a corner matten filter attached to a dc variable water pump with the return line below the water's surface. Otherwise any of the many small off the shelf internal filters would be a good choice.

Beyond that I have not heard anyone ever say one canister filter is particularly more silent then another. They all tend to produce a low level hum but that's about it. If the heater is a + then you are probably looking at an Oase Thermo filter. 

Good luck.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Sound and size are two big reasons I love my Top Fin MF10 internal filters. I have two in my 20 gallon, and one each for four other tanks in my bedroom. They are mostly hidden by plants, and I only hear a little water if I am running them at the surface. I discovered that the Aquaclear 20 foam fits in them, and is a bit more porous than the included foam, so I'm starting to switch to foam. The filters are only $13 each, and they are shrimp-safe.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I don't know of a canister filter brand that is known to be loud though I'd guess they're out there. I'd say most loud ones might just need to have the impeller or shaft replaced. At home I run two canisters in the same room. A few weeks ago after moving the tanks, I put an appliance timer on one of them. At one point it was really quiet in my house and my significant other pointed out that she could hear it. After unplugging the timer, I realized I could too. That really brought home how quiet these tanks are -two canister filters made less noticeable noise than one timer.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Quagulator said:


> Eheim 2211 would be my go to, even a 2213.
> 
> 2213 might be a better option actually, a little more flow.
> 
> You can throttle it back using the quick connect valves and use a "spin" style lily pipe outflow.





Thelongsnail said:


> I have an Eheim Ecco Pro 300 on my 25G (US gallons, 96 liters to the rest of us :grin2.
> 
> Quite compact, very quiet, very easy to maintain, fairly cheap to run. I did swap the intake/outlet for a modular spray bar and intake though.


Thanks for the input guys. I do remember having the Ecco 300 at some stage, but at that time I had 3-4 aquariums in my flat so even if it was silent the rest of the equipment for sure wasn't. Seems these suggestions are all ticking the boxes.




minorhero said:


> For a small tank like what you are talking about I would be tempted to use a small internal filter. That way you get the sound dampening of the tank/water itself to help you out. I am very light sleeper and fankly gave up on tanks in my bedroom years ago, but if I were going to do it that would be how I would go about it. The downside is that you need to hide the darn thing. If diy is your thing I would make a corner matten filter attached to a dc variable water pump with the return line below the water's surface. Otherwise any of the many small off the shelf internal filters would be a good choice.
> 
> Beyond that I have not heard anyone ever say one canister filter is particularly more silent then another. They all tend to produce a low level hum but that's about it. If the heater is a + then you are probably looking at an Oase Thermo filter.
> 
> Good luck.


Interesting thought - I've always disregarded internal filters as part of "beginner aquarium kits" for kids and similar, but it maybe I should consider it. I suppose hiding it is an issue, as well as it will steal a litre or two (as opposed to adding ~5 litres in total water volume) but both of these can be addressed with some planning of the layout. 

I've done some DIY matten filters (didn't know english name for it) which can be hugely effective of biological filtration given it's square area. I used it in combination with a Fluval FX5 and Aquael filter of similar size back when I was keeping predatory fish. Thinking of it more closely that would probably be the least noisy option, as a good submersed power head wouldn't even vibrate/hum. From my recollection the issue with them was cleaning it without leaving all the debris in the tank. Could probably be avoided with some engineering. Thanks for the suggestion, definitely something to consider.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Streetwise said:


> Sound and size are two big reasons I love my Top Fin MF10 internal filters. I have two in my 20 gallon, and one each for four other tanks in my bedroom. They are mostly hidden by plants, and I only hear a little water if I am running them at the surface. I discovered that the Aquaclear 20 foam fits in them, and is a bit more porous than the included foam, so I'm starting to switch to foam. The filters are only $13 each, and they are shrimp-safe.


Another suggestion on internal filter, I definitely need to reevalute my impression of them. If you're able to keep four of them in your bedroom that's a top candidate for sure. 



Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I don't know of a canister filter brand that is known to be loud though I'd guess they're out there. I'd say most loud ones might just need to have the impeller or shaft replaced. At home I run two canisters in the same room. A few weeks ago after moving the tanks, I put an appliance timer on one of them. At one point it was really quiet in my house and my significant other pointed out that she could hear it. After unplugging the timer, I realized I could too. That really brought home how quiet these tanks are -two canister filters made less noticeable noise than one timer.


Those timers can be a real nuisance! From my experience they're dead silent in the beginning, then after a month or two that ticking-sound starts playing, slowly, so you don't notice until you've been away a few days. Happened to me after a holiday, I was going mental of listening to 3 or 4 of 'em ticking in different strokes.

Valid point though, the whole equipment chain needs to be silent otherwise point is lost.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

This one was brand new and still made the noise. I can only look forward to how loud it will get when it "breaks in!" Guess I should have gotten an electric timer rather than a mechanical one, in retrospect.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Hujeta said:


> Interesting thought - I've always disregarded internal filters as part of "beginner aquarium kits" for kids and similar, but it maybe I should consider it.


If you are planning to do moderate to heavily planted tank then biological filtration is less of an issue as compared to no plants or only sparsely planted tanks. Thus you can easily get away with a very small amount of filtration. You mostly use the filter for a bit of water movement and mechanical filtering ability.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

minorhero said:


> You mostly use the filter for a bit of water movement and mechanical filtering ability.


I kind of feel that way about external canister filters in heavily planted tanks. I clean mine sometimes and wonder if replacing it with a powerhead with a pre-filter wouldn't make as much sense and make maintenance a lot easier.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Depending on fish / livestock load / substrate choice / water change schedule and plant mass you could probably get away with a small inline pump only with an intake sponge... Clean the sponge in old take water at every water change.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Hujeta said:


> ... I've mainly been using DIY dripfilters and similar where I didn't care too much for appearance and noise but now those things are important. Easy to service and durable are also important factors, built in heater is a + to get a cleaner tank.
> L


If your goal is a clean, minimalist tank equipment-wise and your doing some sort of aquascape than definitely go with a canister and lily pipes for the intake/return. As pointed out most filters are pretty quiet. My eheim 2213 I don't hear at all.


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Eheim 2211 would be my go to, even a 2213.
> 
> 2213 might be a better option actually, a little more flow.
> 
> You can throttle it back using the quick connect valves and use a "spin" style lily pipe outflow.


Agreed. I have 2x Eheim 2213's running on 10 gallon tanks with the flow throttled, and I've got a 2217 on my 29 gallon with the flow throttled. Been running all three for about three years now, no complaints. Outstanding and reliable filters. Quiet, too! I would suggest grabbing media bags if you go this route, as there aren't trays, the media is loose and simply stacked in the 22xx series. The 2213 comes with media, and the order it suggests is ceramic rings on bottom, blue sponge, bio media, then filter floss on top. It's a bit of a pain if you are dealing with just loose media and can't easily pull a bag out. These days, however, I run just a stack of the blue sponges and top it off with a couple layers of filter floss and some Purigen.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Asteroid said:


> My eheim 2213 I don't hear at all.


I had a 2213 running and I could hear my mechanical timer more than the filter... 

If a hum does start to form, place a small 1/4" thick piece of packaging foam underneath the filter to take in some vibration... 

Ensure the hoses aren't touching the stand (it will transfer vibration into the stand material amplifying the hum). 

Super quite... I love Eheims, I've got 5 of them just because... only running 2 tanks atm. Bought some in an auction just to use as a paper weight.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> This one was brand new and still made the noise. I can only look forward to how loud it will get when it "breaks in!" Guess I should have gotten an electric timer rather than a mechanical one, in retrospect.


Yeah can only agree with you - been there, done that as they say. I bought a cheap multipack off my local appliance store, not making that mistake again.

Bump:


minorhero said:


> If you are planning to do moderate to heavily planted tank then biological filtration is less of an issue as compared to no plants or only sparsely planted tanks. Thus you can easily get away with a very small amount of filtration. You mostly use the filter for a bit of water movement and mechanical filtering ability.





Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I kind of feel that way about external canister filters in heavily planted tanks. I clean mine sometimes and wonder if replacing it with a powerhead with a pre-filter wouldn't make as much sense and make maintenance a lot easier.





Quagulator said:


> Depending on fish / livestock load / substrate choice / water change schedule and plant mass you could probably get away with a small inline pump only with an intake sponge... Clean the sponge in old take water at every water change.



Great input to consider. The plan is for the tank to be moderately planted, likely with pressurized co² to grow a carpet in parts of the bottom. I want the tank to be natural with minimum of artifical items visible, scaped to a certain degree as well. I'm imagining an island where, which could cover an internal filter + heater (or inlets for a canister). Stocking is probably gonna look something like ~30 tetras, ~5 apistogrammas (or similar sized) and a few catfishes. May even give it a go on keeping a crew of shrimps. Likely I'll return to my old habit of 50% waterchange on a weekly or fortnightly basis.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Asteroid said:


> If your goal is a clean, minimalist tank equipment-wise and your doing some sort of aquascape than definitely go with a canister and lily pipes for the intake/return. As pointed out most filters are pretty quiet. My eheim 2213 I don't hear at all.





mgeorges said:


> Agreed. I have 2x Eheim 2213's running on 10 gallon tanks with the flow throttled, and I've got a 2217 on my 29 gallon with the flow throttled. Been running all three for about three years now, no complaints. Outstanding and reliable filters. Quiet, too! I would suggest grabbing media bags if you go this route, as there aren't trays, the media is loose and simply stacked in the 22xx series. The 2213 comes with media, and the order it suggests is ceramic rings on bottom, blue sponge, bio media, then filter floss on top. It's a bit of a pain if you are dealing with just loose media and can't easily pull a bag out. These days, however, I run just a stack of the blue sponges and top it off with a couple layers of filter floss and some Purigen.





Quagulator said:


> I had a 2213 running and I could hear my mechanical timer more than the filter...
> 
> If a hum does start to form, place a small 1/4" thick piece of packaging foam underneath the filter to take in some vibration...
> 
> ...


And there we go with some solid arguments for a canister... Scape won't be minimal (á la Amano) but indeed natural and visible artifical items will be strictly forbidden. Good points with putting media in net bags if I do go down that road. Not sure if it comes standard with Eheims but on the canisters I used to have I put an extra sponge on the intake pipe, which was very easy to service and removed a majority of the debris that would've landed in the filter otherwise.


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## HairyNoseWombat (Jan 14, 2020)

Hi

Dont waste your money on Ehiem Fuval Aqua One etc they are all way overpriced.

Track down a Biopro External Canister Filter, these things sell for around $100 and are whisper quiet, I have several units that are over 5 years old and still work perfectly.

https://www.aquaholicsonline.com.au/1200lph-uv-biopro-external-aquarium-canister-filte


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

OP, I didn't notice that you are in Ireland when I posted, so you might not be able to get any Top Fin (PetSmart house brand) stuff there. This looks like a clone of the MF10 that is available in Europe/Asia/AUS/NZL:

https://www.triopsking.co.uk/product/hailea-aquarium-internal-filter-rp-200/

Basically the concept is a powerhead and foam, lots of ways to do it.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

HairyNoseWombat said:


> Hi
> 
> Dont waste your money on Ehiem Fuval Aqua One etc they are all way overpriced.
> 
> ...


Hey, I'm not sure if we're comparing apples and oranges here but the Fluval 207 in original post is 101 GBP (~130 USD) and the Eheim 2213 (if I found the correct model) is just around 72 EUR (80 USD). Have you compared filters of similar size between the Biopro vs the rest of the established brands?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fluval-A44...uval+207&qid=1580323620&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-2
https://www.aquaristikshop.com/aquaristic/EHEIM-External-Filter-classic-250-2213/221301/


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Streetwise said:


> OP, I didn't notice that you are in Ireland when I posted, so you might not be able to get any Top Fin (PetSmart house brand) stuff there. This looks like a clone of the MF10 that is available in Europe/Asia/AUS/NZL:
> 
> https://www.triopsking.co.uk/product/hailea-aquarium-internal-filter-rp-200/
> 
> Basically the concept is a powerhead and foam, lots of ways to do it.


That's very thoughtful of you to look up the equivalent product for me, thanks for that. I've also been browsing Amazon for a while looking at different internal filters, one of the more interesting ones are this one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BioPlus-Th...ERRPR8PBGWJ&psc=1&refRID=08DMJ1R4FERRPR8PBGWJ

I quite enjoy planning the tank setup in detail this time around so I'll give it some more thought on canister vs internal. Last time I was in the hobby I had somewhat of a more practical approach, going for the equipment with highest output vs price. As I'll only keep one tank now it'll be more thought-through and aestethically pleasing, as well as functional and balanced. Most likely will pretty much any filter setup provide ample filtering qualities so it's a matter of how I want it to come together.


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

Hujeta said:


> That's very thoughtful of you to look up the equivalent product for me, thanks for that. I've also been browsing Amazon for a while looking at different internal filters, one of the more interesting ones are this one:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/BioPlus-Th...ERRPR8PBGWJ&psc=1&refRID=08DMJ1R4FERRPR8PBGWJ
> 
> I quite enjoy planning the tank setup in detail this time around so I'll give it some more thought on canister vs internal. Last time I was in the hobby I had somewhat of a more practical approach, going for the equipment with highest output vs price. As I'll only keep one tank now it'll be more thought-through and aestethically pleasing, as well as functional and balanced. Most likely will pretty much any filter setup provide ample filtering qualities so it's a matter of how I want it to come together.


That internal filter is from a very reputable company, I've contemplated grabbing a Oase Biomaster canister on more than one occasion, but they're pricey! The built in heater and option for a built in UV can be tempting...

I've not done internal filters because in order to hide them, you likely end up obstructing flow. I've always preferred canister with glass lily pipes. Glass will require frequent cleaning, however.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

My Gucci internal filters are the Tunze Comline Nano 3161 units. I am not currently running them, but I will use AquaClear 20 foam in them on my next try. They are much bigger than the MF10 units, but have skimming ability. However, they are very sensitive to water level.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1293303-community.html

I just love discussing filters because they are not tied to a specific tank strategy.

I have never run HOB filters, but this one suggested by @Discusluv looks very nice and minimal:

https://www.amazon.com/Dymax-Slim-A...&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=demux,pets,181&sr=1-1

Everything else looks big and asymmetrical, but this unit looks small and symmetrical. I will probably buy a few to test in my utility tanks.

Cheers


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Most filters last a pretty long time, so the price difference is really negligible. Many can do the job but I would really go with an Eheim. Proven, easy parts availability, hose compatibility with lily pipes. 

GPH to me is less important in planted, since most of the filtration is in the tank, as opposed to a fish only tank where your moving large waste to the filter. Not as important in planted IMO, unless your going to have many fish and just a few plants.


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## HairyNoseWombat (Jan 14, 2020)

Hujeta said:


> Hey, I'm not sure if we're comparing apples and oranges here but the Fluval 207 in original post is 101 GBP (~130 USD) and the Eheim 2213 (if I found the correct model) is just around 72 EUR (80 USD). Have you compared filters of similar size between the Biopro vs the rest of the established brands?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fluval-A44...uval+207&qid=1580323620&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-2
> https://www.aquaristikshop.com/aquaristic/EHEIM-External-Filter-classic-250-2213/221301/



Yes.
https://www.aquaholicsonline.com.au/1200lph-uv-biopro-external-aquarium-canister-filte


https://www.aquariumkingdom.com.au/aqua-one-aquis-canister-filter-1200


https://www.aquaholicsonline.com.au/aqua-one-ocellaris-external-aquarium-fish-tank-can~6713


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

@Asteroid, do you worry about finding Eheim stuff in the USA now?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Streetwise said:


> @Asteroid, do you worry about finding Eheim stuff in the USA now?


I haven't had a problem. I just ordered a new impeller and a pair of double taps for my Eheim 2215. Starting new tank :grin2:


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

That is good.

I don't see any Eheim products getting restocked at my local chain pet stores, or local pet stores here in Vermont.

I almost feel like buying a couple of Eheim canister filters, and one more skimmer, before they disappear from the local market.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Streetwise said:


> That is good.
> 
> I don't see any Eheim products getting restocked at my local chain pet stores, or local pet stores here in Vermont.
> 
> I almost feel like buying a couple of Eheim canister filters, and one more skimmer, before they disappear from the local market.


Yeah everything I buy is usually online. Pretty much all LFS are gone in my area, the only thing left are the two chains so I don't even use then as a gauge of what's available.


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## HairyNoseWombat (Jan 14, 2020)

Hi



> Yeah everything I buy is usually online.


Me too.

Members please note.

When buying electrical stuff online from another country, make sure it suits the voltage at the the power point in your home, you don't want to run a pump made for 120 volts when you have 240 volts.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Streetwise said:


> I don't see any Eheim products getting restocked at my local chain pet stores, or local pet stores here in Vermont.


There is no money to be made on Eheim filters. They sell on Amazon at roughly the same price my wholesalers offer them now. A few brands have gone this direction and that's probably why you rarely see them in stores. Almost every customer who comes in mine has a smart phone and if you are 30 to 50% higher than they see it online, they assume your shop is expensive. So you carry brands that you can be competitive on. Hagen products (Fluval, Aqua Clear, etc.) has a MAP policy, but it isn't enforced so I've dropped them too even though they make some of my favorite products. Aquatics as a category is in huge trouble. You sell tanks at near cost, there's no margin on anything with a plug, and fish will never carry you. This is why stores get out of aquatics and why your local Mom and Pop fish store is becoming a thing of the past.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> There is no money to be made on.


Yep, before it was amazon everything, LFS could buy products and sell them for a decent markup, especially if the LFS had a good install base, but now as you mentioned it's impossible. I don't even know how these online guys make any money on as you say "products with a plug" I looked into some of the wholesale pricing and when you factor in packaging, online fees/transaction, shipping, etc. there isn't much there. I guess the big guys can do the volume and it allows people to buy other things that might have a higher margin.


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

@Asteroid Even back in the day before amazonia when the big two pet box stores started expanding around the country we still only had a markup of about 10% on anything aquatic related supply wise. Fish were marked up more but with the losses it was probably still about that. Now dog food, cat food, related fur pet supplies was another story. Could actually have a little higher markup on that stuff and it moved much quicker then anything else. 

My parents augmented the store with dog grooming for a while and then raising rats/mice. Eventually we were probably the last primary fish store in the area (all the others had closed down except the big Ps) and they finally sold the store. The buyers ran it into the ground and closed up a year or so later. My dad kept up with the raising rodents and delivers them all over northern half of his state. It works out alright for him but its not how shall we say it a "glamorous job" lol.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Best place I've been buying from is local aquaria society auctions / members of local groups. 

Tons of old filters to be found that are of good use. 

Tanks / heaters / lights are in rough shape, but the filters in my area that people part ways with are always in decent shape, good way to keep things affordable and local vendors / Ma and Pa shops are always present and active at the events.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Quint said:


> @Asteroid Even back in the day before amazonia when the big two pet box stores started expanding around the country we still only had a markup of about 10% on anything aquatic related supply wise. Fish were marked up more but with the losses it was probably still about that. Now dog food, cat food, related fur pet supplies was another story. Could actually have a little higher markup on that stuff and it moved much quicker then anything else.
> 
> My parents augmented the store with dog grooming for a while and then raising rats/mice. Eventually we were probably the last primary fish store in the area (all the others had closed down except the big Ps) and they finally sold the store. The buyers ran it into the ground and closed up a year or so later. My dad kept up with the raising rodents and delivers them all over northern half of his state. It works out alright for him but its not how shall we say it a "glamorous job" lol.


Oh yeah i totally agree. I wasn't implying the markup was great, now it doesn't exist at all. I know most stores use their floor space for dog/cat since they have no choice. Now even the big Ps are feeling Amazon. I buy my dog-related stuff on Amazon's subscribe and save, way cheaper than the chains. Petsmart is doing the same concept with their Chewy.com


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

mgeorges said:


> That internal filter is from a very reputable company, I've contemplated grabbing a Oase Biomaster canister on more than one occasion, but they're pricey! The built in heater and option for a built in UV can be tempting...
> 
> I've not done internal filters because in order to hide them, you likely end up obstructing flow. I've always preferred canister with glass lily pipes. Glass will require frequent cleaning, however.


Yeah looking at the bigger canister filters they do seem a bit pricey. With the smaller internal filters they're still a few notches higher but the monetary difference isn't too bad. I like the idea of having the heater built in, bodes well for a cleaner tank and better cable management. Haven't seen lily pipes before entering this forum, seems like a thing in NA. At first I thought it was a co² diffuser of some sort. I can see why people like it, myself I prefer a black spraybar.



Streetwise said:


> My Gucci internal filters are the Tunze Comline Nano 3161 units. I am not currently running them, but I will use AquaClear 20 foam in them on my next try. They are much bigger than the MF10 units, but have skimming ability. However, they are very sensitive to water level.
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1293303-community.html
> 
> ...


HOB does have some appealing qualities but won't work for me as my tank will end up near a wall and it'll be too visible if I put it on either of the sides.




Asteroid said:


> Most filters last a pretty long time, so the price difference is really negligible. Many can do the job but I would really go with an Eheim. Proven, easy parts availability, hose compatibility with lily pipes.
> 
> GPH to me is less important in planted, since most of the filtration is in the tank, as opposed to a fish only tank where your moving large waste to the filter. Not as important in planted IMO, unless your going to have many fish and just a few plants.


Fully agree with you. I've done the mistake many times before of buying something cheap, then not be satisfied so I went back to get the original equipment I thought was too expensive at first.

Yeah I plan to add a powerhead anyway (may run it on a timer) so the actual circulation in the water column won't be an issue. Besides, prefer to have at least two sources of movement as to prevent dead areas. 



HairyNoseWombat said:


> Yes.
> https://www.aquaholicsonline.com.au/1200lph-uv-biopro-external-aquarium-canister-filte
> 
> 
> ...


That seems to be a brand mainly available down under, couldn't really find any of them close by here and haven't seen them before. This time around I'm gonna stick with well-known reputable brands if I go for a canister.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Quint said:


> Now dog food, cat food, related fur pet supplies was another story. Could actually have a little higher markup on that stuff and it moved much quicker then anything else.


 Interesting, dog and cat food are super low markup, at least as long as I've sold it. If I sell a bag for $12.50, I paid $10 bucks for it before any delivery fees, fuel surcharges, etc. I get that it's bought frequently, but it does go out of date, bags tear, etc. On two occasions I've hired customers for weekend help and both times they were excited to get dog food at cost -until they saw cost. "That's IT?!?" was exclaimed both times! 


What categorizes as a loss leader varies for every store but it's somewhere around 20-25% for me. So I basically sell dog food for what it costs me after overhead. Treats are a little better at 50% markup, and collars, leashes, beds and so forth can sometimes be as much as 75%, depending on the brand. I could drive for Uber and make more money than I do selling pet supplies, but I love my job and meet dogs every day.


Edit:
Just looked up the prices of an Eheim 2217 since I had been considering one for myself. Amazon price: $96.21










Wholesaler pricing, *$122.84!*









I should show this to the next person who asks why I don't carry Eheim.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Best place I've been buying from is local aquaria society auctions / members of local groups.
> 
> Tons of old filters to be found that are of good use.
> 
> Tanks / heaters / lights are in rough shape, but the filters in my area that people part ways with are always in decent shape, good way to keep things affordable and local vendors / Ma and Pa shops are always present and active at the events.


Great place to buy fish as well. Primarily Central American/African lake cichlids, livebearers, some corydoras species, and ancistrus plecos. Healthier stock, less problems with antibiotic resistance, more fertile fish.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Hujeta said:


> I like the idea of having the heater built in, bodes well for a cleaner tank and better cable management. Haven't seen lily pipes before entering this forum, seems like a thing in NA. At first I thought it was a co² diffuser of some sort. I can see why people like it, myself I prefer a black spraybar.


FYI Many people use this inline heater. Kinda pricy though. 

Lily pipes usually go hand in hand when people use rimless tanks for that ADA look, but not vital more aesthetic, but there is function to them as it's easy to create a slight swirl on the water's surface for gas exchange.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Asteroid said:


> FYI Many people use this inline heater. Kinda pricy though.
> 
> Lily pipes usually go hand in hand when people use rimless tanks for that ADA look, but not vital more aesthetic, but there is function to them as it's easy to create a slight swirl on the water's surface for gas exchange.


Bit pricey yes but an inventive way of hiding it. I had a quick search for whats available over here, seems they carreid the same brand but smallest size was 300W. Out of precaution I won't get that, if there's a malfunction it'll fry the whole tank as it's way oversized. I'll keep the option in mind though.


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## dan0788 (Jan 10, 2020)

FWIW, I have a Fluval 107 at my feet under my desk. Im super particular about noise when I'm working and was worried this would be distracting. It's so quiet that I mistake it for my computer fan. Im constantly looking over at the tank to make sure its on and there's flow.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

dan0788 said:


> FWIW, I have a Fluval 107 at my feet under my desk. Im super particular about noise when I'm working and was worried this would be distracting. It's so quiet that I mistake it for my computer fan. Im constantly looking over at the tank to make sure its on and there's flow.


Very good to hear about some hands-on experience! Still undecided on canister vs inline, so many things to consider. Think inline has the edge at the moment, just due to the storage situation and that it'll likely be quieter, even if canister will possibly be ok too.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Hujeta said:


> Very good to hear about some hands-on experience! Still undecided on canister vs inline, so many things to consider. Think inline has the edge at the moment, just due to the storage situation and that it'll likely be quieter, even if canister will possibly be ok too.


2211 or 2213 from Eheim is dead nuts silent... after a week of running any Eheim accept an ancient very well used one I bought for $30, I had to look to see if water was actually moving, couldn't hear it. 

Canister offers more value than an inline in my opinion, more options for future modifications, growth, add on's etc.


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## xjclassic (Aug 14, 2010)

Hujeta said:


> Very good to hear about some hands-on experience! Still undecided on canister vs inline, so many things to consider. Think inline has the edge at the moment, just due to the storage situation and that it'll likely be quieter, even if canister will possibly be ok too.



I run a Fluval 107 on a 45p in my bedroom. The filter is not in a stand or cabinet and it is dead silent. Moved to the 107 from a Eheim 2011 for increased flow. The Fluval is quieter than the Eheim. 



I own several brands but recently bought the 107 and a 307. My experience so far with Fluval is great. They are probably my go to from now on.


Over there look into Sicce. I also run a Whale 200 that is a great filter. Very quiet with a lot of nice features.


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Interesting, dog and cat food are super low markup, at least as long as I've sold it. If I sell a bag for $12.50, I paid $10 bucks for it before any delivery fees, fuel surcharges, etc. I get that it's bought frequently, but it does go out of date, bags tear, etc. On two occasions I've hired customers for weekend help and both times they were excited to get dog food at cost -until they saw cost. "That's IT?!?" was exclaimed both times!
> 
> 
> What categorizes as a loss leader varies for every store but it's somewhere around 20-25% for me. So I basically sell dog food for what it costs me after overhead. Treats are a little better at 50% markup, and collars, leashes, beds and so forth can sometimes be as much as 75%, depending on the brand. I could drive for Uber and make more money than I do selling pet supplies, but I love my job and meet dogs every day.
> ...


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## Sam the Slayer (Dec 18, 2019)

My vote is an eheim 2213. Mine is silent 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## butchblack (Oct 25, 2019)

Another vote for the Eheim 2211 or 2213. My only complaint with the 2211 is that the output hose size is small, 9mm/12mm which makes finding tubing harder. I have a 2211 on my 20L and a 2217 on my 70G both are dead quiet, though the 2211 sits on a cheap yoga mat covering the shelf, which helps. I may have to add on beneath my 2217 just because.


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Interesting, dog and cat food are super low markup, at least as long as I've sold it. If I sell a bag for $12.50, I paid $10 bucks for it before any delivery fees, fuel surcharges, etc. I get that it's bought frequently, but it does go out of date, bags tear, etc. On two occasions I've hired customers for weekend help and both times they were excited to get dog food at cost -until they saw cost. "That's IT?!?" was exclaimed both times!
> 
> 
> What categorizes as a loss leader varies for every store but it's somewhere around 20-25% for me. So I basically sell dog food for what it costs me after overhead. Treats are a little better at 50% markup, and collars, leashes, beds and so forth can sometimes be as much as 75%, depending on the brand. I could drive for Uber and make more money than I do selling pet supplies, but I love my job and meet dogs every day.
> ...


Just an FYI, you've got the 2213 selected on Amazon. It's the "92 Gallon" one priced at $124.99 that's the 2217, you've got the 2213 selected at $96.21.


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## dan0788 (Jan 10, 2020)

xjclassic said:


> I run a Fluval 107 on a 45p in my bedroom. The filter is not in a stand or cabinet and it is dead silent. Moved to the 107 from a Eheim 2011 for increased flow. The Fluval is quieter than the Eheim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just to emphasize the quietness even more - my 107 is in a 5 gallon bucket under my desk. In theory that should amplify any noises and vibrations, but I still don't hear a thing!

My last tank was a 20g with a aquaclear 50 HOB. It was in my living room about 12 feet away from my couch. Between the grinding noise that the motor made, the lid vibration and the trickling water sound, my tv had to be blasting in order to even hear it. Never again!


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Yeah, if the impeller and shaft are in good shape, canisters are typically really quiet. 


mgeorges said:


> Just an FYI, you've got the 2213 selected on Amazon. It's the "92 Gallon" one priced at $124.99 that's the 2217, you've got the 2213 selected at $96.21.


Thanks for catching that, Amazon has them listed by GPH vs model # and I crossed lines somewhere. So not nearly as bad as I thought, I at least don't pay more for it. On the 2213 I can make $8, and it goes up from there as sizes increase. Though I still can't tie $70 in something that might sit on the shelf for a year up to make 8 bucks when it does. And I have to consider returns, seeing as a lot of newer aquarium keepers find canisters to be a headache. I can't tell you the number of aquatics returns I've just put on my own tanks rather than put an opened box back on my shelf. Heck, my dog is eating returned food right now. I wonder if people are less inclined to return something they have to ship than taking it back to a brick and mortar store? Or maybe these Amazon sellers purchase in such bulk that they get it discounted enough that returns aren't an issue.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> ... I wonder if people are less inclined to return something they have to ship than taking it back to a brick and mortar store? Or maybe these Amazon sellers purchase in such bulk that they get it discounted enough that returns aren't an issue.


Another reason big sellers like Amazon are doing well is that shipping now is often free as is returns so that has been eliminated as a hesitation for someone to buy online. In fact amazon doesn't even require you to pack it up, you can just drop it off at a UPS store and the store does the packing. You get your money back once the product is scanned through UPS.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

That's a huge competitive advantage they have over stores. I returned a hose connector last week and was almost shocked when there was no charge for shipping it back. And delivery is getting ridiculously fast, same-day in some areas. Times they are a changin'.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> That's a huge competitive advantage they have over stores. I returned a hose connector last week and was almost shocked when there was no charge for shipping it back. And delivery is getting ridiculously fast, same-day in some areas. Times they are a changin'.


..and I think it's only the beginning unfortunately. This hasn't happened yet, but Amazon has filed a patent for a drone delivery system with an airborne fulfillment center. Could be a blimp of sorts and popular items are delivered in minutes/hrs not days.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Makes me wonder how much longer "stores" are even going to be a thing. Outside of groceries, gas, and a handful of other items, there's not much you can't get delivered to your door cheaper -and before long -faster. It's like a shopping version of Video Killed the Radio Star.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

dan0788 said:


> Just to emphasize the quietness even more - my 107 is in a 5 gallon bucket under my desk. In theory that should amplify any noises and vibrations, but I still don't hear a thing!
> 
> My last tank was a 20g with a aquaclear 50 HOB. It was in my living room about 12 feet away from my couch. Between the grinding noise that the motor made, the lid vibration and the trickling water sound, my tv had to be blasting in order to even hear it. Never again!


Canister in a bucket! That is a great idea to prevent water spills. I wish I had have thought of that years ago.

Thanks


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Makes me wonder how much longer "stores" are even going to be a thing. Outside of groceries, gas, and a handful of other items, there's not much you can't get delivered to your door cheaper -and before long -faster. It's like a shopping version of Video Killed the Radio Star.


So true, the main retail street near me is starting to take on that post-apocalyptic look. How I miss the days of Ed's Tropical Aquariums


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Quagulator said:


> 2211 or 2213 from Eheim is dead nuts silent... after a week of running any Eheim accept an ancient very well used one I bought for $30, I had to look to see if water was actually moving, couldn't hear it.
> 
> Canister offers more value than an inline in my opinion, more options for future modifications, growth, add on's etc.





xjclassic said:


> I run a Fluval 107 on a 45p in my bedroom. The filter is not in a stand or cabinet and it is dead silent. Moved to the 107 from a Eheim 2011 for increased flow. The Fluval is quieter than the Eheim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Sam the Slayer said:


> My vote is an eheim 2213. Mine is silent
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





butchblack said:


> Another vote for the Eheim 2211 or 2213. My only complaint with the 2211 is that the output hose size is small, 9mm/12mm which makes finding tubing harder. I have a 2211 on my 20L and a 2217 on my 70G both are dead quiet, though the 2211 sits on a cheap yoga mat covering the shelf, which helps. I may have to add on beneath my 2217 just because.





dan0788 said:


> Just to emphasize the quietness even more - my 107 is in a 5 gallon bucket under my desk. In theory that should amplify any noises and vibrations, but I still don't hear a thing!
> 
> My last tank was a 20g with a aquaclear 50 HOB. It was in my living room about 12 feet away from my couch. Between the grinding noise that the motor made, the lid vibration and the trickling water sound, my tv had to be blasting in order to even hear it. Never again!


Cheers guys! Seems I can be confident with a quiet filter as long as I stick to the big brands. Appreciate all the input.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Hujeta said:


> Very good to hear about some hands-on experience! Still undecided on canister vs *inline*, so many things to consider. Think inline has the edge at the moment, just due to the storage situation and that it'll likely be quieter, even if canister will possibly be ok too.


Inline or do you mean in-tank?


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Yeah, if the impeller and shaft are in good shape, canisters are typically really quiet.
> 
> Thanks for catching that, Amazon has them listed by GPH vs model # and I crossed lines somewhere. So not nearly as bad as I thought, I at least don't pay more for it. On the 2213 I can make $8, and it goes up from there as sizes increase. Though I still can't tie $70 in something that might sit on the shelf for a year up to make 8 bucks when it does. And I have to consider returns, seeing as a lot of newer aquarium keepers find canisters to be a headache. I can't tell you the number of aquatics returns I've just put on my own tanks rather than put an opened box back on my shelf. Heck, my dog is eating returned food right now. *I wonder if people are less inclined to return something they have to ship than taking it back to a brick and mortar store*? Or maybe these Amazon sellers purchase in such bulk that they get it discounted enough that returns aren't an issue.


I am for sure. I never bother with the hassle of returning via post for something bought online. I therefore buy all my clothes in store, and other things I may need to return. For me it's much more convenient, I know the refund is smooth and I can replace my product immediately. 



Asteroid said:


> ..and I think it's only the beginning unfortunately. This hasn't happened yet, but Amazon has filed a patent for a drone delivery system with an airborne fulfillment center. Could be a blimp of sorts and popular items are delivered in minutes/hrs not days.


Let's hope they find a solution to the noise pollution before those drones are put to action...



Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Makes me wonder how much longer "stores" are even going to be a thing. Outside of groceries, gas, and a handful of other items, there's not much you can't get delivered to your door cheaper -and before long -faster. It's like a shopping version of Video Killed the Radio Star.


Let's hope they'll stay with us, allthough it doesn't seem to be the trend. I'm against this in general, but one good thing is it develops the economy by forcing merchants to become smarter and better. 

That being said, consumers needs to wise up too. Usually it's the same people who complain about stores shutting down, who's also the most eager to "showroom". It's a cool new word I recently learnt, where a customer get's the expertise and hands-on experience of visiting a store and then order it cheaper online.

Bump:


Asteroid said:


> Inline or do you mean in-tank?


I must say I thought these were the same thing, but to be clear I'm considering canister filter or internal filter like this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/BioPlus-Thermo-Internal-Aquarium-Filter/dp/B01FJQ2Q4W/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=thermo+filter&qid=1580339256&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-8


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Hujeta said:


> ..
> 
> I must say I thought these were the same thing, but to be clear I'm considering canister filter or internal filter like this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/BioPlus-Th...o+filter&qid=1580339256&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-8


Now I'm really confused. If you want minimal equipment showing why would you opt for an internal filter. That's the exact opposite. Not that they don't serve a purpose in some setups, but for aesthetic reasons never, plus they take up internal space.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Asteroid said:


> Now I'm really confused. If you want minimal equipment showing why would you opt for an internal filter. That's the exact opposite. Not that they don't serve a purpose in some setups, but for aesthetic reasons never, plus they take up internal space.


In the scape I've planned in my head there'll be a big island, made of rocks and driftwood, and I imagine I could hide an internal filter behind it. I don't like it stealing space though. Something along the likes of this (but the top being emersed):


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Go canister... super easy to hide an inline heater, and glass intake / output tubes are great.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Hujeta said:


> That being said, consumers needs to wise up too. Usually it's the same people who complain about stores shutting down, who's also the most eager to "showroom". It's a cool new word I recently learnt, where a customer get's the expertise and hands-on experience of visiting a store and then order it cheaper online.


https://reefs.com/magazine/fish-tales-customers-behaving-badly/ this article brings up so many things I encountered when running my LFS. I don't blame anyone for looking for the lowest price, but what they are doing never even crosses their mind when they ask me all the questions for what to buy on Chewy or Amazon that I have on my shelves. I even have people bring in filters and equipment for me to assemble and explain for them that they've bought online. I'll almost always do it because I want people to succeed in the hobby but it's really frustrating -especially when I had an equal or better price.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Hujeta said:


> In the scape I've planned in my head there'll be a big island, made of rocks and driftwood, and I imagine I could hide an internal filter behind it. I don't like it stealing space though. Something along the likes of this (but the top being emersed):


Lesson #1 in Aquascaping. Don't let equipment dictate your scape. 
Lesson #2 Don't use an internal filter, trust me.


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## evil8 (Aug 7, 2018)

I haven't read through all the comments yet, but I am using an Oase FiltoSmart 100 on my 16 gallon. It's just sitting on a shelf beneath the tank and I can't hear it run. You'd probably want a 200 for a 20 gallon. It comes with the heater in the filter so you don't need one in the tank. I'm so impressed with them I may replace my Marineland with an Oase Biomaster when I upgrade from my 45 later in the year.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> https://reefs.com/magazine/fish-tales-customers-behaving-badly/ this article brings up so many things I encountered when running my LFS. I don't blame anyone for looking for the lowest price, but what they are doing never even crosses their mind when they ask me all the questions for what to buy on Chewy or Amazon that I have on my shelves. I even have people bring in filters and equipment for me to assemble and explain for them that they've bought online. I'll almost always do it because I want people to succeed in the hobby but it's really frustrating -especially when I had an equal or better price.


That article was a good read, touches on alot of things I believe lots of people don't consider. It's also not endemic to LFS, across my hobbies that tend to be gadget-heavy it's the same talks on all forums. People buying cameras and equipment online at best price, then complaining there's no local store to visit when things break or they don't understand how to use them. That the expertise is included in the price when you go local is often overlooked. Same with Starbucks vs a private café.


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## butchblack (Oct 25, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> Now I'm really confused. If you want minimal equipment showing why would you opt for an internal filter. That's the exact opposite. Not that they don't serve a purpose in some setups, but for aesthetic reasons never, plus they take up internal space.





Asteroid said:


> So true, the main retail street near me is starting to take on that post-apocalyptic look. How I miss the days of Ed's Tropical Aquariums


It does pose an ethical problem for me. I try to not use Amazon for philosophical/ethical reasons, but a lot of aquarium equipment is available only through them. I'm thrilled that I found some good looking juvenile koi angelfish at my (somewhat) local fish store. I'd rather give them the business than take my chances ordering online. Although my corys were ordered online and they were fine and the company was very nice to deal with.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

butchblack said:


> It does pose an ethical problem for me. I try to not use Amazon for philosophical/ethical reasons, but a lot of aquarium equipment is available only through them. I'm thrilled that I found some good looking juvenile koi angelfish at my (somewhat) local fish store. I'd rather give them the business than take my chances ordering online. Although my corys were ordered online and they were fine and the company was very nice to deal with.


I hear ya. Look I'd rather frequent my LFS, but you can't stop change. I still go to one about 40 minutes from me. It's not only online, I mean Home Depot doomed the MaPa hardware store, How many stores did Costco cause to close. The ironic thing is that Amazon is now opening brick-n-mortar just to rub it in more.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Quagulator said:


> Go canister... super easy to hide an inline heater, and glass intake / output tubes are great.





Asteroid said:


> Lesson #1 in Aquascaping. Don't let equipment dictate your scape.
> Lesson #2 Don't use an internal filter, trust me.





evil8 said:


> I haven't read through all the comments yet, but I am using an Oase FiltoSmart 100 on my 16 gallon. It's just sitting on a shelf beneath the tank and I can't hear it run. You'd probably want a 200 for a 20 gallon. It comes with the heater in the filter so you don't need one in the tank. I'm so impressed with them I may replace my Marineland with an Oase Biomaster when I upgrade from my 45 later in the year.



I've been going back and forth on the filter front, canister was the initial plan but then internal filter was considered, mainly out of practicality as the shelf for the tank is already full of other stuff and I'm very limited storage space. Anyway, I've decided canister is the way to go so I'm recycling an old printer instead :grin2:. 

Fluval 107 is crossed of the list due to the way the hoses connect at the top (won't fit in the shelf), Oase looks very innovative with their built in heaters but some very mixed online reviews made me hesitant against trying them out. Maybe in the future.

Eheim is last man standing, I've had some of 'em before and of course it's a well reputable brand. Today I've visited my to closes LFS but neither stocks Eheim. Going to a third store across town tomorrow, if they don't have it I'll get it off Amazon. Going for the 2213 model as it seems to fit all my needs, with an inline heater and possibly CO2 reactor.

Bump:


butchblack said:


> It does pose an ethical problem for me. I try to not use Amazon for philosophical/ethical reasons, but a lot of aquarium equipment is available only through them. I'm thrilled that I found some good looking juvenile koi angelfish at my (somewhat) local fish store. I'd rather give them the business than take my chances ordering online. Although my corys were ordered online and they were fine and the company was very nice to deal with.


I enforce the same principal, try and look local first but if it's something odd that normal stores won't stock it's Amazon all the way. Just looking at this thread, I've never seen inline heaters before, I visited a few pet stores today and noone there had heard of 'em either. Especially if you've been moving around a bit and don' really know where you can find a particular product for a DIY build it's handy to go online.



Asteroid said:


> I hear ya. Look I'd rather frequent my LFS, but you can't stop change. I still go to one about 40 minutes from me. It's not only online, I mean Home Depot doomed the MaPa hardware store, How many stores did Costco cause to close. The ironic thing is that Amazon is now opening brick-n-mortar just to rub it in more.


I read that Amazon now represents more than 50% of all online commerce in the US. It's spreading more and more in Europe too, being established in the UK (including Ireland) and Germany for a while. Possibly a few more eur markets. They tried expansion to the Scandinavian countries but faced resistance from the prominent labour parties, seems that the situation for the workers won't meet the requirements of the unions which has a strong foothold there.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

I have a Finnex PX 360, which is similar to this UNS canister filter. It's really quiet and small. It has the option to hang on the back or to be plumbed under the tank. http://www.petzonesd.com/uns-delta-60-aquarium-canister-filter/


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## TheLadyFreedom (Aug 26, 2019)

I use the 206 on my daughter's 20, and there is no noise from it. The major annoyance is the Whisper pump!


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## Cria (Nov 9, 2019)

I have a Hydor 250 external canister filter. I read about it on some online fiter rating/review site. They mentioned in the review how quiet it was. I am easily irritated by noises and I can honestly say I've had to go open the door on my stand and put my hand on the filter to make sure it was running! Looks cost comparable to the Fluval you were looking at.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hydor-Prof...ydor+250&qid=1581014118&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-2


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## TMarquis (Mar 6, 2012)

Eheim 350. I have had one for years and it still is extremely quiet. Sometimes I have to check to see if it is still running.


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