# John P.'s 26 Gallon Nature Aquarium (NEW for 09-02-05) Finally! p.6



## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Very nice start John, Something to be proud of and it is taking shape very nicely 
I know you will keep us updated! roud:


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## Cord (Sep 19, 2004)

Wow! It looks great and I can't wait for updates in the future  
The background story is also quite endearing.


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## secretagent (Mar 13, 2004)

New updates? I think its been time-hehe


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Very nice John! Those Cherry Red shrimp of yours have a great home!

Mike


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Thanks everybody. I plan to update regularly from now on. 

The only bummer is that I'm relocating my home office to the garage, and the aquarium's going to be moved as well. Why? B/c the little guy is becoming _very _ social while I'm on business calls! Plus, my wife would like an office, too, and needs to be upstairs with Mack:









Mike--thanks! I hope the Cherry Shrimp start feeling frisky one of these days. I haven't had one with eggs since I lost her: :icon_frow


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## fishyboy (Nov 16, 2003)

thats one cute kid


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

fishyboy said:


> thats one cute kid


Hey, thanks! He's 11 months old on the 12th!


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Nice lookin tank John and a great looking "future aquarist" ! roud:


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Hey Mack!! roud: 

Mike


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## bigpow (May 24, 2004)

Hey John,

What kind of joints did you use on the stand?
I think you did amazing job with the tank stand & canopy. roud:
I built a canopy for my 55-gallon, I highly admire your work!

BTW, Great looking tank


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

I love the stems on the left side. IMO you should create a similar look on the right side leaving the middle open.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

very nice tank! If it was mine, I'd keep the stems on the left side, not put any on the right side and let the stems grow out more on the left side. Make the triangle thingy bigger. But I do love it how it is. Lucky fool lol


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

pufferfreak said:


> very nice tank! If it was mine, I'd keep the stems on the left side, not put any on the right side and let the stems grow out more on the left side. Make the triangle thingy bigger. But I do love it how it is. Lucky fool lol


Triangles are too overdone... :icon_bigg That being said, my triangle is crap... :icon_bigg


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

Ok, maybe I should refraise that to the 3-layer look? lol I didnt know what to call it


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Buck said:


> Nice lookin tank John and a great looking "future aquarist" ! roud:


Thank you, Buck! He already loves watching the fish!



bigpow said:


> What kind of joints did you use on the stand?
> I think you did amazing job with the tank stand & canopy.
> I built a canopy for my 55-gallon, I highly admire your work!
> 
> BTW, Great looking tank


Thanks for the affirmations! The 4x4s & 2x4s terminate directly into the plywood top. As you can see, I then finished the top with an "apron" on the front & sides. I don't remember what thickness the plywood was, but I will check for you. The horizontal members were glued & screwed at 45 degrees from the top & bottom using substantial deck screws. I probably should've taken pictures of the whole process, but I needed to move quickly on the project. I will, however, post my "plans" as soon as I get a chance.

pufferfreak & Overfloater--the hairgrass is growing along the back wall--you can see it behind the Cherry Shrimp sitting on the moss-covered rock. I plan to arc it around to the left side of the aquarium (though only to about halfway along the side of the aquarium, not the front). This, along with my triangle roud: should enhance the impression of depth in this, my 10" aquarium. I'll miss the stems though. Since I am relocating to the garage, I may just have to start a "jungle" tank, too. :icon_bigg


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

*Stand Plans*

As promised, here are the "plans" I made before building my stand:








(Full Rez)


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

John P. said:


> I hope the Cherry Shrimp start feeling frisky one of these days. I haven't had one with eggs since I lost her: :icon_frow


I guess the great Cherry Shrimp gods were smiling on me ... I just now spotted a female laden with eggs! She was boucing them around like crazy with her swimmerets. The eggs looked a little larger than what the dearly departed (above) was carrying. 

I think it coincides with the Algae Wafers I've been dropping in there for my 2 Otocinclus over the last 2 weeks (which, by the way, are throughly ignored by the Otos).

Anyhow, this makes me happy. I was beginning to think I'd have to dose Viagra or something. :wink:


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

Very cool! I have two little females that have eggs right now in my 12 gallon. The shrimp just turned half way red, there that small lol. Good luck with the shrimp


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Thanks. Mine are all quite large. I'm glad she's full of eggs, because I can't be sure my current stock has too many months left in them. 

Several of them look like mini lobsters they're so red!


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

haha she looked like a mini lobster! I take it you never hatched her eggs? That sucks that she died.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

pufferfreak said:


> haha she looked like a mini lobster! I take it you never hatched her eggs? That sucks that she died.


No, the eggs wasted away, unfortunately. Better luck this time, hopefully.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

Yep, Good luck!


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

John P. said:


> I guess the great Cherry Shrimp gods were smiling on me ... I just now spotted a female laden with eggs! She was boucing them around like crazy with her swimmerets. The eggs looked a little larger than what the dearly departed (above) was carrying.
> 
> I think it coincides with the Algae Wafers I've been dropping in there for my 2 Otocinclus over the last 2 weeks (which, by the way, are throughly ignored by the Otos).
> 
> Anyhow, this makes me happy. I was beginning to think I'd have to dose Viagra or something. :wink:


I guess I spoke too soon. I saw (what I think is) the same shrimp this morning ... with only 1 egg! What gives? Ugh! :icon_roll


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## amanda huggenkiss (Mar 3, 2004)

John, a female will still develop eggs, but will drop them quickly if they're not fertilized. Is it possible you don't have any males?

And otos will _not_ touch algae wafers! What's up with that? But if you want to give them a treat, they'll go nuts for a blanched piece of zucchini.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

amanda huggenkiss said:


> John, a female will still develop eggs, but will drop them quickly if they're not fertilized. Is it possible you don't have any males?
> 
> And otos will _not_ touch algae wafers! What's up with that? But if you want to give them a treat, they'll go nuts for a blanched piece of zucchini.


I'm pretty sure there are some males in there, too. At least one doesn't have the "saddle" and is not as red. Who knows!?

I think I'll try some blanched romaine to see if they'll eat that. Ever try this on the Otos?


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## amber2461 (Sep 26, 2004)

amanda huggenkiss said:


> And otos will _not_ touch algae wafers! What's up with that? But if you want to give them a treat, they'll go nuts for a blanched piece of zucchini.


Mine just go nuts over the algae wafers but won't come near the blanched zucchini.
:tongue:


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Okay, looks like one of them is still with eggs. I'm happy again.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

*Wanted to update the journal with something I found interesting and certainly unexpected ...*

This afternoon I was in the process of starting a routine water change. I lifted my canopy and heard a buzzing/flapping noise. I looked under one of my ODNOd tubes to see this little bugger:








(bigger) Click to see its color!

Ah, a Damselfly (not a Dragonfly, as they are unable to fold their wings back like this). I thought to myself: "_strange, because I found one of these exact things behind my canopy late last week & was thinking it must have come from the aquarium despite the sealed canopy_."

Not knowing a whole bunch about Dragonflies & Damselflies, I do know they have nasty larvae that can eat invertabrates, fish, etc. "Hmmmm . . . I thought, time to search for the . . . oh wait":








(bigger) Two larvae "shells" on my CO2 tubing!

Closer inspection of one of them:








(bigger) 

Another pic of the newly-emerged Damselfy:








(bigger)

Turns out there was another larvae shell (total of 3) on my Eheim's return tube, slightly above the water level.

These "immigrants" *may *  be the reason why I haven't seen any Cherry Shrimplings rummaging around. I find their presence fascinating, considering I rinsed all of the plants well before introducing them to the tank. Of course, I have microfauna galore--Daphnia, Planaria, you name it. 

Ah, the joys of a planted tank!


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## BlueEL (Sep 10, 2004)

hahaha what a interesting story. :icon_bigg Not only you are breeding cherries, even Damselfly thrive in your tank. roud: 


John P. said:


> *Wanted to update the journal with something I found interesting and certainly unexpected ...*


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## imnappy2 (Aug 6, 2004)

Thats so awesome!! Not so good for the shrimp but damsel flys are so cool. I like the green ones with black wings. At least thats one variety we have in wisconsin and they flutter so gracefully compared to the cracked out dragon flys.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Fascinating, John! Sharp photos and nicely narrated .


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

My wife would FREAK if that was in the tank and I am not to sure I would want them either John...interesting as they are, you may come home some day to a massive hatch flying around the house. :icon_frow


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

LOL, Buck! I showed it to my wife, and she was quite uninterested. 

These larvae exist in their aquatic stage for years in some cases. That's the interesting part . . . I wonder what these guys have been eating in there. Maybe snails & not Cherry Shrimp after all!

The winged adults are really cool. I picked up the two that I found and let them go outside. Afterwards I started thinking that maybe I shouldn't release them if they're non-indigenous to this area. Considering they were released several days apart, I doubt they'll ever meet up again, LOL!


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

*Dragon/Damselfly nymphs*

I have had dragonfly nymphs in my fish tanks, too. They came with some of the plants from Arizona Aquatic Gardens. I know enough about them that I was HORRIFIED when I saw those freakishy ugly spider-like nymphs crawling around in my tank. I had several of them running around and they had gotten to be pretty big, which means they were eating SOMETHING in my tank. Luckily at the time I had quite the snail problem, so I'm pretty sure they were eating snails and not my fish or shrimp. I love dragonflies, but not so much that I want to risk feeding my fish and shrimp to them. The nymphs after all will eat anything they can get their freakish little claws on, including small fish.
-Aphyosemion


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

That's werid, is there anything that eats them?


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I found one in my 75 a long time ago.

If I remember correctly the dragonfly nymphs will actually eat small fish.

Any of your Rasboras or Cardinals go missing John?

Mike


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Momotaro said:


> I found one in my 75 a long time ago.
> 
> If I remember correctly the dragonfly nymphs will actually eat small fish.
> 
> ...


My first batch of Cardinals and Rasboras  saw so much attrition from pre-existing maladies that they probably wished they would've been eaten. :tongue: My latest batch of Cardinals  has all survived (12/12!), and there are some .5" ones in this group. They would've only been in there with the nymphs for a matter of days though.

Seeing that I've raised 3 Damselflies to adulthood, who knows . . . maybe more are creepin' around in there! :icon_roll


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Actually I am surprised the fish havent snacked on them before they get to that stage... maybe the fish are even scared of them buggers ! LOL


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## Rosko_22 (May 19, 2004)

Whoa, that's funny. :icon_bigg (damselflies)
I've never seen green ones before, just blue/purple/black.
Guess you never know exactly what you're getting with your live plants, eh? :tongue:


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

*Guess what's back?*

Woke up this morning, and what do I see resting on my Java Moss? A Damselfly nymph pre-emerged!








(bigger)

As I proceeded to tweezer him out, I saw this "floater," still alive:








(bigger)

*ALSO, here's an update on various fauna I have in the tank right now ...*

My *Cardinals * are still going really strong. One of the 4 survivors from my first woeful batch had what I identified as "Nodular Disease"--a yellowish tumor-looking "node" under the scales in the head area. From what I could research, there is no known remedy to this problem. I dosed AP Pimafix for 6 days to address the unidentified mouth fungus that was killing my Harlequin Rasboras. It saved the remaining 3 HRs that were left from that batch (also with pre-existing maladies) AND also treated the Cardinal with the Nodular Disease. I can't say enough great things about Pimafix--it didn't affect the plants or the inverts whatsoever. Here is the affected Cardinal before (it is now totally gone):








(bigger) 
I have 16 Cardinals in the aquarium ... here are the ravenous little eaters, attacking an Hikari Algae Wafer chunk (characins, just like Piranhas  ):








(bigger)

As I'm just now getting my ferts in alignment, I've had a bit of an algae issue as you can see by this picture of a common pond *snail * & his buddy:








(bigger)

The *Cherry Shrimp * are doing well, too. I recently added another 5, with a few being what I think are males. Hopefully this will address my lack of shrimp propagation. Here's what I believe to be a male:








(bigger)

Oh, and here's what happened to the algae wafer after the Cardinals were done:








(bigger)


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Great photos John and kudo's to the format you use for posting them ! roud:


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

John - that's a great looking tank. The simplicity of it makes it clear that you really were affected by Amano. I understand completely.

But moving it to the garage, that's really too bad. If for no other reason than it not being viewed as often!

And your DIY stand - wow. It looks outstanding. I think you made a really great esthetic call when you left some space between the bottom of the stand and the floor. You so rarely see that in wooden/laminate tank stands, and I think it really helps the visual you seem to be trying to achieve. It helps keep the stand from visually overwhelming the tank itself.

I've got a DIY stand for a new tank in my future, and your stand will serve as inspiration.

Great stuff!


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## Piscesgirl (Jan 20, 2004)

I am always so in awe of folks that can build things! What a beautiful tank and stand. Kudos to you! I really wouldnt be surprised if the damsels ate baby shrimp -- they are probably the smallest things in the tank and easy food especially just hatched. I'd probably go on a damsel fly hunting brigade if that was my tank!

By the way, shrimp love sweet potatoes - just microwave some like you would a normal potatoe, allow to cool, and scoop a bit from the middle and drop it in. I think the beta caroteine might help with color as well. 

How do you feel about the acrylic and all the 'scratch' potential? I love acrylics myself, but so many people comment about how easily they scratch. I took care of a 5 gallon minibow, scrubbed algae and all, and scratches were not a problem.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Buck said:


> Great photos John and kudo's to the format you use for posting them ! roud:


Thanks Buck. I thought you'd like the D-Fly update.



scolley said:


> [T]hat's a great looking tank. The simplicity of it makes it clear that you really were affected by Amano. I understand completely.


Thanks for that. It should look eve more Amano-esque once the stems are removed. 


scolley said:


> But moving it to the garage, that's really too bad. If for no other reason than it not being viewed as often.


Luckily I home office--and the garage is where I'm relocating my office to. That should give me plenty of daydream/distraction material!



scolley said:


> And your DIY stand - wow. It looks outstanding. I think you made a really great esthetic call when you left some space between the bottom of the stand and the floor. You so rarely see that in wooden/laminate tank stands, and I think it really helps the visual you seem to be trying to achieve. It helps keep the stand from visually overwhelming the tank itself.


Thanks. Let me know if I can help you out with your stand. It was really quite simple compared to some of my other endeavors, such as my most recent car audio project:








(more)

Anyhow, back to planted tank stuff ...  



Piscesgirl said:


> I am always so in awe of folks that can build things! What a beautiful tank and stand. Kudos to you! I really wouldnt be surprised if the damsels ate baby shrimp -- they are probably the smallest things in the tank and easy food especially just hatched. I'd probably go on a damsel fly hunting brigade if that was my tank!
> 
> By the way, shrimp love sweet potatoes - just microwave some like you would a normal potatoe, allow to cool, and scoop a bit from the middle and drop it in. I think the beta caroteine might help with color as well.
> 
> How do you feel about the acrylic and all the 'scratch' potential? I love acrylics myself, but so many people comment about how easily they scratch. I took care of a 5 gallon minibow, scrubbed algae and all, and scratches were not a problem.


Thanks re: the stand. I'm glad it turned out the way it did. First time I tackled an aquarium stand/canopy project!

I'll have to ty the sweet potato idea. I'd like to give them something other than detrius to eat!

Re: the acrylic, we have a cat that put a nice, deep scratch in the acrylic near the stand's apron. Luckily it's in the gravel area so it's hidden well. I use acrylic-friendly algae scrubbers, so I haven't had too bad of a time with it yet. I would probably choose an open top, glass frameless design if I could do it all over, though the canopy probably retains a good amount of heat & evaporation loss. I love the clarity of this thing, however, and the aggravation is worth it so far.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

For the record, I think there is more to that stand than first meets the eye. I think the the strong vertical lines of the 4x4's helps eliminate that box-on-a-box look. Also, another subtle but nice feature is the fact that the tank's edges extend beyond the edges of the bulk of the stand. IMO that really helps bring the tank out visually, futher reducing the total set of distractions from observing flora and fauna.

I'll give you a yell someday when I want to try the same thing for a 90!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Very nice...

BTW, that car install of yours looks very clean. Gotta love that inset amp on the box. Is that on a hatchback?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

You peaked my interest with the auto audio project. I was looking at the pic, and said "Hey, except for the speakers, I think I have one of those in my garage." But after checking your site, I got one of what you took off the lot, but after what you've put into it, you've got a very special car. I hang my head in shame. Great work!

So, you've done the sound, you've done the suspension. When are you going to "chip" it?


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

scolley said:


> For the record, I think there is more to that stand than first meets the eye. I think the the strong vertical lines of the 4x4's helps eliminate that box-on-a-box look. Also, another subtle but nice feature is the fact that the tank's edges extend beyond the edges of the bulk of the stand. IMO that really helps bring the tank out visually, futher reducing the total set of distractions from observing flora and fauna.
> 
> I'll give you a yell someday when I want to try the same thing for a 90!


Thanks again for the nice comments about the stand. You're finding a lot of the design elements I aimed to include there . . . nice to see someone takes notice! B/c the 26-G is only 10" front-to-back, I used 2x4s in the back to keep the rear legs from adding too much bulk. I'll take some other pictures (from the side, inside the cabinet, etc.) one of these days, too. I think this stand would work beautifully with a frameless, glass aquarium with an open top. Add 2 high output pendants . . . ah, if only! 



scolley said:


> You peaked my interest with the auto audio project. I was looking at the pic, and said "Hey, except for the speakers, I think I have one of those in my garage." But after checking your site, I got one of what you took off the lot, but after what you've put into it, you've got a very special car. I hang my head in shame. Great work!
> 
> So, you've done the sound, you've done the suspension. When are you going to "chip" it?


Thanks. This car project was my first time working with fiberglass. It was a lot of work, but also a good learning experience. I put down my deposit on the TT back in 1998 before they were even close to our shores. Took delivery in the summer of 2000. I'm now out of warranty, and would like to consider chipping. A friend (fellow TTer) let me try out his O.CT (from Stratmosphere.com) chip a while back. I'm interested in trying out Revo, too. My wife & I are almost done remodeling our house, so I should have a little more disposable dough before too long. I already have my eyes on a different set of rims . . . oh, this never ends!



Ibn said:


> Very nice...
> 
> BTW, that car install of yours looks very clean. Gotta love that inset amp on the box. Is that on a hatchback?


Thanks! It's an Audi TT (yep, a hatchback):


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Mini aquarium update ... looks like I have another pregnant female Cherry Shrimp. Let's hope this one goes full term! I added (what I believe to be) at least one male the other week, as well as Kent reef iodine (2-3 drops/week), so perhaps that's playing a role here.

Also, finally getting my ferts in order. I started with Seachem Macros & Flourish, but realized just how ridiculously expensive they're going to be if I continue with them (even at Petsolutions.com prices), so . . . I just placed my GregWatson.com order this morning.

Re: the fertilizing, I'm noticing a much clearer water column since I began. I hope it finally begins to impact the staghorn algae that's growing on the Glosso and Hairgrass. Stay tuned.

Oh, also another Damselfy spotting ... I saw one crawling through the Glosso harassing one of the smaller Cherry Shrimp. I tried to catch it with my long tweezers, and it slid into the Java Moss. Luckily it has a lot of Daphnia & snails to feed on, so maybe it'll leave the shrimp alone. Anyhow, that brings the total to 6 that I've found in here!


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## pphx459 (Jun 25, 2004)

John P. said:


> Mini aquarium update ... looks like I have another pregnant female Cherry Shrimp. Let's hope this one goes full term! I added (what I believe to be) at least one male the other week, as well as Kent reef iodine (2-3 drops/week), so perhaps that's playing a role here.


Good luck on your shrimp!



> Also, finally getting my ferts in order. I started with Seachem Macros & Flourish, but realized just how ridiculously expensive they're going to be if I continue with them (even at Petsolutions.com prices), so . . . I just placed my GregWatson.com order this morning.


Kudos to Greg Watson - he is the man.



> Re: the fertilizing, I'm noticing a much clearer water column since I began. I hope it finally begins to impact the staghorn algae that's growing on the Glosso and Hairgrass. Stay tuned.


My water column is much more clear when I dosed quite a bit more micros. I don't have much algae at all but the water was always a bit more on the green side.



> Oh, also another Damselfy spotting ... I saw one crawling through the Glosso harassing one of the smaller Cherry Shrimp. I tried to catch it with my long tweezers, and it slid into the Java Moss. Luckily it has a lot of Daphnia & snails to feed on, so maybe it'll leave the shrimp alone. Anyhow, that brings the total to 6 that I've found in here!


Not too fond of insects.

Again, good luck on your tank. Hope it will reward you well.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Well, yesterday was the day I relocated this aquarium to the garage (where my new home office is located*). Everything seemed to go as planned, but today I lost one Cardinal. It seems the stress of the move and my fiddling with the plants today (and possibly water changes and a temperature dip last light) were too much for it.  

Some of the other fish are affected as well. It's tail rot of some sort--the fish that expired had it real bad. It's amazing how quickly a fish can degrade, going from perfect to disease afflicted and dead in such a short time. 

I guess one loss it to be expected, or at least not out of the question given the move. But still . . . I'm mad this happened under my watch.

Dosing with PimaFix & MelaFix.

*See page one of the journal for the reason why!


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

:icon_redf 

More bad news to report ...

The garage gets cold (it was 50-something degrees F yesterday), so I thought I'd cover the aquarium last night with 2 blankets to retain heat. This, I thought, plus the 200-watt inline Hydor and the 100-watt Ebo Jager on a 26-G should be enough to keep me at 77F.

Well, I went down this morning at 7 AM to check on things and saw 3 deceased Cherry Shrimp. A check of the temperature revealed 78F. I immediately suspected CO2 poisoning, and a check of my pH proved [email protected] 35-39 ppm. UUUGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. 

I immediately began to siphon out water into buckets, letting the water stream aerate as much as possible. I then siphoned the contents back into the tank, again allowing the stream to splash & bubble as much as possible. I also kept the water level low so as to let the Eheim jets agitate the surface. I repeated this about 6 times.

Well, I just checked on things again and I found 1 more deceased shrimp. This one, and one other that I found earlier were both carrying eggs.  On this one, I decided to be somewhat morbid and used a small pipette to remove the eggs (greenish in color, BTW) from the female and placed them in the intake of my Eheim 2213 Canister. I figure if they're still viable, they would get as much water movement in there (or more) as they'd get by their mom's constant flickering of her swimmerets. I think there were ~20 eggs or so. I'll open the filter up in December & will hopefully have some babies in there. :icon_roll 

Luckily I still have one female Cherry Shrimp with eggs that seems to be okay. I spotted another 3 or so in the tank, with one male (I think--I didn't get a good look). I expect that there are a couple in the tank that were CO2 victims that I can't find. I pegged my Cherry Shrimp population, before the relocation, to be around 10.

Anyhow, I just topped off the tank right now. All the fish (except for the Cardinal yesterday) have survived my CO2 disaster. Continuing to dose MelaFix and PimaFix, and their fins appear to be better today. The whole relocation project has been more disasterous than I expected.

Learn from what I did, and don't cover those tanks!


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Im sorry to hear about the shrimps and cardinal- did you find out what happen with the co2?


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Marc said:


> Im sorry to hear about the shrimps and cardinal- did you find out what happen with the co2?


I imagine it became concentrated since it wasn't escaping the water column through the hood. Sort of like sticking one's head in a plastic bag. Really sad. I haven't looked at the aquarium since my earlier post, and now the lights are off. I did wrap the front 3 sides with blankets this morning, and the temperature is holding at 77F--not bad, considering it is in the low 50sF outside tonight.

I think I will find some sheets of styrofoam and secure them around the tank at night with velcro--that should do the trick as far as insulation is concerned and will be easy to remove.


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Sorry about the loss man :icon_frow 

Don't you think it's more toward lack of O2? 35-39ppm of CO2 wouldn't kill anything.


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## sn8k (May 24, 2004)

Sorry to hear of the loss John - sometimes things like that just happen. It is a sad thing to see that occur when I know you go though great lengths to prevent stuff like that from taking place... but on the good side, at least you and the rest of us learned a very valuable lesson here.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Thanks for the sympathy. A real bummer. The only good news is that 2 females have eggs. At least their spawn will be a CO2-resistant bunch!

Re: the lack of Oxygen . . . I'm not sure. It seems like classic CO2 poisoning to me. The fish became listless, but none died b/c of the CO2. I'm sure the shrimp just have a lower threshold for carbonic acid.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

I'm not sure if CO2 poisoning will do that, but shrimps are sensitive to drastic changes, so that might be the case. If it were raised slowly over time, they probably would have made it.

I do know that 35-39 ppm of CO2 doesn't kill fish or shrimp if it were raised slowly, since I run my tank at around 43 ppm constantly.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Ibn said:


> since I run my tank at around 43 ppm constantly.


Are you using pH shutoff or a timer?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

The solenoid is plugged into the Milwaukee controller, so it's all automated.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

I agree with Eric that it might not be CO2 poisoning. I think we should distinguish between low ph caused by CO2 and the actual CO2 poisoning. What is your tank KH? Could be a ph crash happened overnight with high CO2.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

This morning's stats (before water change/aeration), with the same symptoms as the past 2 mornings:
PH = 6.8
KH = 4
Nitrate = 0
Phosphate = <.1
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0

Here's  a little more detail about all of this from another post. FWIW, the fish seem to be still gasping, and my Eheim's spraybar is aerating the water's surface fairly well. Strange.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

hm, the numbers are just fine, does not look like ph crash at all. scratching my head.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Yes, it's quite perplexing. The only real wildcard is the MelaFix, as I haven't used that before. Strange.

I have the CO2 going at about 1 bubble/6 seconds, so that should be a non-issue. I'm also going to let the spraybar rough-up the water's surface tonight, too. I'll update tomorrow morning.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

The tanks stats "now" seem fine but you moved the tank on Sunday and refilled it with "what" for water ? If your tap starts out higher, which Im sure it does if your ph is where its at now with all that CO2, then it could have crashed from the original ph from tap ?

Just a thought John... sorry for the losses bro, lets hope the egg laden gal's hold on. roud:


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Hey Buck, 
I actually put most of the water back into the tank (I used buckets and coolers for the transit)--only a little bit was new from the tap.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Thanksgiving Day update ... everyone made it through the night unscathed. I suppose I'll fill the tank today & hope for the best.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

Good luck!


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Thanks. I set my regulator at 1 bubble every 3 seconds earlier this morning after I topped the tank off with H20. Just measured PH right now (9:40 PM) and it's @ 6.6 (KH = 4). Sooooooo let's hope 30 ppm isn't going to cause me any problems tonight & in the morning.

Interesting to note that despite adding ferts this morning and keeping the lights on for a 12-hour photoperiod, there is no pearling. I guess it will take a while to get this tank back on track. 

More importantly, I hope the plants produced enough O2 for the shrimp tonight. We will see.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Well, I don't think anything died, but ... all the fish were white and the shrimp & snail were at the top of the water again.

I think the plants have shut down & have ceased phosynthesis = no O2.

I'm planning to run a low water level so that the spraybar can oxygenate the water, and I'll continue to inject CO2 to try to get the plants going again. I have to leave all week for business next week. Ugh.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Finally have baby Cherry Shrimp! Saw my first 3 today, all were ~4-5mm in size. Moving around somewhat "exposed" to the Cardinals and Harlequins. I will definitely make sure to feed the fish often over the next week.

Interesting that the shrimp are this size in only a week's time. Glad that I should be able to do some aquascaping soon without worrying too much about the little guys.


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## Kris (Feb 27, 2004)

yeah! roud: 
good news! i love your stand and i am going to ask my fiancee to make me one (slightly smaller) for a 10 gallon that i have.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

It has been too long since I last updated. 

Here's a picture of an algae I haven't been able to get rid of. It's the only one that still gives me a hard time (thread, staghorn, green spot, bba all eradicated for the most part). I've identified it as "hair algae," though I had another algae a few months ago that I thought was hair algae that was "single stranded." This algae branches somewhat, and is much rougher/more rigid in texture. I know there are actually many types of algae classified as "hair algae," but it sure would be nice to get a real diagnosis so that I can treat it. Despite proper levels of lighting (3w/g), CO2 (30ppm), & Macros & Micros, it keeps going. The only thing left that could be causing this is a long buildup of mulm in the Glosso and Hairgrass patches. I've recently pulled up large areas of Glosso to try to get a handle on this. I keep turning/burying the affected substrate, too (it attaches to the EcoComplete and decaying plant matter). I'm sick of pulling the algae out by hand & am anxious to be rid of it.









(The plant is Hemianthus Callitrichoides, for size reference)

Also added some Bee Shrimp a few week ago. I have 5 that resemble the one on the top photo, and 4 that more closely resemble the one on the bottom photo. I believe I might actually have 2 different types here. None are with eggs at the moment. You will also notice MANY Red Cherry Shrimp in there. I'm guessing there are 75-125 in there, but who know?


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

You need to manually remove the algae that is there.
High levels of CO2 will stop the growth, it will not remove it.
You can prune off the affected area's easily and then replant.

Test kits lie, algae never lies, add more CO2 than what you have. Ignore your test kit's for a little while, better yet, put them away, slowly add more C02, even if it is 40 50ppm, just watch the fish, Let the fish and plant's be you're test kit for awhile.
Turn CO2 off at night, that will prevent high levels from building up and allow a chance to off gas at night.

Add more KNO3 KH2PO4 CO2 and Traces.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I agree with wolfy here John... you are getting a false level somewhere from your kits (CO2 is first) but if this is a shrimp tank that you are using to breed in then the algae is not all that much a bad thing either as long as it does not get out of control. 

Careful adding NO3 if you are breeding the shrimp also though. Is your water soft ? Are you adding any magnesium ?


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Tony ("Gomer") IDd this algae as cladophora. I've read Tom Barr posts that say it's one of the most difficult algaes to address b/c it's one of the most plant-like algaes.

Craig--no way in h3ll I can remove all of it without removing all of my hairgrass & glosso!  This stuff is invasive! I have been able to remove much of it by hand, with tootbrushes and a comb. Always bounces back. Re: the test kits, I dose according to what the levels should be in my 26-G using the fertilator over at aquaticplantcentral.com. The test kits are pretty consistent for Nitrate and Phosphate. The only wildcards, then, would be pH and/or kH for the CO2 level. I should be @ >30ppm right now. I'm using AP kits right now, FWIW.

Buck--Right now I'm at ~15ppm Nitrate via KNO3. I stopped adding additional K (to get to 20ppm) about 2 weeks ago. I have P at ~1.5 (a little high to keep the green spot away). kH is 4-5 and gH is ~12-15 (I don't have my log in front of me). I'm not adding any Magnesium--should I?


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I thought I was losing my mind... was this a quote you made earlier Craig ? LOL , an hour later I read the bottom one in a BBA post from Tom. :tongue: 


Wö£fëñxXx said:


> You need to manually remove the algae that is there.
> High levels of CO2 will stop the growth, it will not remove it.
> You can prune off the affected area's easily and then replant.
> 
> ...





plantbrain said:


> So is it still growing or not?
> You need to remove what's there.
> The high levels of CO2 wills top the growth, it will not remove it.
> You can prune it off easily and then replant.
> ...


Your killin me man...I thought I was reading the same post all over.  

BTW John, the magnesium helped me a lot IMO with the water quality.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

LOL, I guess you can tell I have read everything on the net that he has wrote 2 or 3 time's and have been practicing it, to the extreme, because it is very effective and the man know's what he talking about...



John P. said:


> Tony ("Gomer") IDd this algae as cladophora. I've read Tom Barr posts that say it's one of the most difficult algaes to address b/c it's one of the most plant-like algaes.


If in fact it is cladophora, that is all the more reason to manually remove as much of it as possible, I know it can be a pain but once it is done, the plant's will grow back, keep up on thing's and it will not return.

Thanks


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## raykwonx (Feb 26, 2004)

What does the magnesium do for the water? I keep hearing about adding magnesium, but I haven't really read anything about it.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

If you have softer water sometimes the plants need to be supplemented with Mg and Ca.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Any updates or pictures on the tank?


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## cprroy73 (Nov 10, 2004)

I also agree with upping co2, just watch the fish. I have a controller and sometimes it is not right with test kits. and I am not so sure the test kits are right either. My kh is 7.5 and ph is 6.5 with the calibrated controller and a AP test kit for kh and ph, etc. Now thats 71ppm co2 if it is accurate. My fish do not gasp and it halted the little BBA that I had growing, but did not kill it. So I removed it and it has not been back yet. My plants start pearling at about midday until lights out.

I have shrimps in my tank(amanos) and they are fine even with the high co2. In fact one of them has eggs.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> Any updates or pictures on the tank?


Thanks for asking! I'm probably about 3 weeks away from being "ready" for pics. I've changed things quite a bit.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Hahaha, okay thats fine.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Oh boy, its been about a little over a month now John! We all want to see pictures right?


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Wondering if I should post pics or wait for an aquascaping contest?  Hmmmmmmm?? I'm still waiting for a bit more filling in, too.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> Oh boy, its been about a little over a month now John! We all want to see pictures right?


I don't think that was a request to give away what the whole tank looks like before a contest... just a new peek at some of it!


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

*Finally an update!*

I know--this post is long overdue. I actually had another entirely different aquascape that I never photographed because it wasn't "just right." I left town for a while, and when I returned the tank had taken a turn for the worse. I decided to abandon that design and opt for a simpler setup without the high-maintenance stem plants (Bacopa Australis, Hygro. C. "Angustfolia," Hemianthus Micranthemoides) that took WAY too much of my time to keep in order. I decided to return to the vision that "re-attracted" me to planted aquariums early last year. Now, of course, I have a lot more experience and hopefully better ideas to execute. So here I am, again!

Here's one shot of the tank as of *Day 2*:









Because the tank is essentially "new," I am starting a new thread in order to document the progress. Click here to go to my new official thread for this tank, complete with more details than you really want/need to know!

Oh, also, I have quite a bit of HC to sell. $10 per inch, shipped USPS Priority!


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## dharris (Nov 23, 2005)

Great looking tank! Great Job on the stand and canopy.


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