# I know right, another algae problem lol



## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

I've been battling this problem for months now and it just seems to be getting worse. 
90g tank 
Co2
Marineland aquatic led light 6.5 hours a day 
I dose sachem iron, potassium, excel, trace, nitrogen and flourish. I follow this dosing plan 








And I do 50% water changes every week. 
I'm pretty sure this is hair algae. The pic was takin a long time ago and it's gotten much worse.


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## Revenant (May 14, 2014)

What range does your lighting fall into for your size tank? High, med...etc..Also how is your flow...


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Specifically which Marineland LED light ?
That new steroid model may be too much for it.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

I'm not sure what model it is, I just know it's a marineland aquatic plant led with timer. I'd probably is its med-high light. Flow is pretty good, I have an fx5 filter with a hydor pump


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

The Seachem dose 'suggestions' are *far* lower than, say EI. With decent lighting and CO2, I think you will need to seriously increase your fertiliser levels.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

So how should I go about it then ? Should I try double what they suggest.


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

I started here. There is an encyclopedic amount of info on this site also about EI fertilising for high tech tanks like yours....

I was doing pretty much what you are, initially wasn't keen on dosing dry ferts, so started increasing my Seachem doses, doing their 1-2x/wk dose every day, now I do 3x that....


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Ok I'll try upping my dose to 3x what the seachem chart suggests.


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

At least for a while can you reduce lighting intensity?


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

I'm not sure how I'd be able to raise the light up. I'll try to figure something out.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Controlling Algae*

Hello Ace....

That's a lot of nutrients you're putting into the water. If the plants are full and there's still more nutrients in the water, you're creating a perfect environment for algae. 

Large water changes remove the old water plus whatever has dissolved in it. Remove the water and you remove the nutrients too. If you reduce what you feed the plants and fish, then there won't be as much for the algae. Your aquatic plants are more efficient in their use of food then a simple plant like algae.

Reduce the food and up your water changes until the algae is under control.

B


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

Can you give any details about your CO2?

DIY/compressed?
pH - with and without CO2?
KH?


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

5lbs compressed co2 
Ph with around 6.6 without 7.4


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I dont see any phosphate on the list. So there's a primary macro nutrient that could be in short supply. Plants need a full range of all the necessary nutrients to grow (both macros and micros). If even one is missing, plants will stop growing and that's when algae can take hold. See this thread- EI Concept Explained

Generally speaking, too much ferts doesnt cause algae. It's far more likely due to a lack of. As lee739 pointed out, those recommended doses for Seachem liquids are nowhere close to enough for a high light, co2 enriched tank. Here is a calculator to give you an idea - http://rota.la/ Enter your gallons and tick pre-mixed, then select a product from the drop down. 

Of course lighting is another thing to consider, but I cant think of a Marineland fixture that would be too much for a 90 gallon co2 tank, esp at 6.5 hours/day.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

I've seen that calculator before, but it doesn't cover all the seachem products.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

The point is that it takes a lot more than the recommended doses. You may not necessarily need levels that high, that can depend on how heavily planted your tank is. A full tank shot would probably help people get a better idea what you're working with.

Are you dosing any phospates? Can you test for them? Like I said above, that's a primary macro nutrient I dont see on your list.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

No I am not dosing that at the moment. My lfs didn't have any, it's a hit an miss kinda thing. I'm going to have to order some. 








This is my tank.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ferts are easy to rule out, just make sure to provide a full range of everything in adequate amounts. In the meantime, you can manually remove a lot of that hair algae with a toothbrush, twist it around like a fork in spaghetti.

Tank looks really nice btw.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Ya I've been trying the best I can. I feel like I can't keep up sometimes lol. I bought some sae's the other day to try an help me out a bit lol. 

An thank you very much, I'm learning on the go an jumped right into a 90g lol


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

You may want to look at using dry ferts. Dosing a 90 gallon with those Seachem liquids is going to get extremely expensive. 

For $15 + shipping you can get everything you need here - http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html . That's probably a year's worth. There are some good people here on the forum that sell them too, nilocg for one. 

There are threads on the fertilizer board with exact recipes for how much to dose, so it's not as complicated as it looks. I know I was confused as hell in the beginning, but it's fairly simple really.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Ya I have been planning on making the jump to that, I'm just scared lol. I can hardly understand this at the moment, chemistry just isn't my thing. But yes I will be making the jump soon, then I can start a whole new round of questions hahaha. Thank you for everyone's help. I'm going to up my ferts as per the calculator and hope that helps. And in the mean time I'm going to be reading up on dry ferts


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I was in the same boat as you not too long ago with my 75 gal. Knew I needed ferts but had no clue where to begin using dry form. So I bought the Seachem liquids to do in the meantime. I ran through the first round of 500ml bottles in about a month. :icon_eek: That sped up my learning process considerably lol


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

I'll have to try an find somewhere to get the ferts in Canada


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## pheo (Nov 28, 2014)

Upping the CO2 was what took care of my hair algae.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Ok so I need kn03, kh2p04, csm+b anything else ?


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

That will cover all your macros and micros. I add additional potassium via K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate). You may find it comes in handy in case you ever need to lower nitrates or phosphates for some reason without decreasing K in the process, or raise your K without raising one of the other. You'll have a source of K by itself.

I follow the recipes here - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=647697

If you have soft water you'll want to get some GH booster (Calcium Sulfate (CaSO4) and Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4)) And if you think you need more iron than whats in the csmb (possible) you could get some iron by itself (Fe)

Here's a thread with recipes including those two things as well - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Oh man I'm so confused lol


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Heh heh, let's try this again



Aceman said:


> Ok so I need kn03, kh2p04, csm+b anything else ?


KNO3 is Potassium Nitrate - a source for nitrogen and potassium

KH2PHO4 is Mono Potassium Phosphate - a source for phosphorus and potassium

So between the two you have all three macros, Nitrogen, potassium, and phospate. That's fine. However, your potassium is tied in with the other two, which is why I said this


burr740 said:


> I add additional potassium via K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate). You may find it comes in handy in case you ever need to lower nitrates or phosphates for some reason without decreasing potassium in the process, or raise your potassium without raising one of the other two. You'll have a source of potassium by itself.


Csm+b is the micros, including iron. Nothing else to see here, except that some people like to add additional iron.

If you have soft water, get some GH booster, see previous post. If your water is hard then it's usually not necessary.

Ferts are cheap, so might as well save future shipping costs and get everything you may possibly need in one whack. But to answer the original question, yeah those three things would cover all the bases.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Ok I'm going to place an order soon an see if I can figure this out lol. So this should help my hair algae problem ? It sounds like with the seachem im not dosing enough but I've read that hair algae is cause by too many ferts, or is it cause I'm missing that one important ?


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Well you're dosing very low levels of most things, and zero phosphates. So there's a strong chance your plants are limited, and therein lies the algae problem. When plants become limited algae pops up. Its not because of too many ferts. That's a myth which has been dis-proven time and time again. Look no further than the hundreds of high tech tanks around here where people lard on the ferts in great amounts ($1 to Tom Barr)

Whether this will fix your specific algae problem, the only way to know is do it and see. But it's a glaring weakness, and it's pointless to look at other possibilities until this base is covered. The good news is ferts are a simple part of the equation. Just add plenty of everything and do weekly water changes. Then you can confidently cross ferts off the list, and look at other possibilities if the problem happens to persists.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Awesome, thanks so much for all your help. When I get my dry ferts I'll be sure to ask you a few more questions lol


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Good luck, keep us posted how it goes.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html
These people ship to Canada. And I believe this is what you have been discussing.
http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html
There is a Marineland LED light which produces 80 PAR @ 25". But the 18"-24" model starts at $200 so if it's not one in that type I have a hard time/w thinking the light is 
high enough to cause problems.
Which leads back to that complete list of nutrients. That second link shows that they include the K2SO4 that burr740 was talking about in case you need either to substitute some for the KNO3 because the nitrates are too high or just to add more Potassium without adding more NO3 which is the nitrate part. On many fert dosing list it is listed as optional for added Potassium.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

This is the light I have in a 48" 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=24726


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Yep that's it. 80 PAR at 25". 
I went back to th3e beginning of the thread to see. You said CO2 near the beginning and then listed the Sea Chem items and Excel was one of them. 
Is that the CO2 or do you have the injected CO2 ?
Reason is that Excel and 80 PAR could be most of the problem.
If you have the injected, then I'd really go/w what burr740 is talking about with
improving what the plants are getting because the other two ingredients are there
for them to really grow strong/fast. But lacking enough of all the nutrients is
holding them back and creating the good conditions for the algae which is some ferts in there not being used because the plants are not really growing combined/w the high light. Throw a bunch of energy in there(high level of light) and some food and something is going to use it.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Sorry, yes it is injected co2. I dose excel just to try an fight some of the algae. 
I just ordered my ferts an should be here next week. Now I'm going to have to learn how to use the dry ferts.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

When you get the ferts, just follow the recipes in one of the threads I linked earlier. Both explain exactly what to do. You can dose dry, which means adding the powder directly into the tank, or mix up solutions with water, do all the macros in one bottle, and the micros (csm-b) in another. It's not good to mix them together.

Daily pill organizers come in handy for dry dosing, you can measure out doses for a few weeks at a time rather than having to do it every day.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Ok so I found this chart. Since I have I have a 90g should I do the one for up to 80g or the one for 100 ?


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Pretty big difference between the two. I'd probably split the difference for each one.

Take a look at those other two threads I linked earlier. They also have recipes. 

It's not that critical to get doses just right. That's the beauty of EI, to provide more than enough of everything and keep it in check with weekly 50% water changes.


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

Ya I'll probably go with one of those I was just hoping to have a chart I could print out lol


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Copy/paste onto a text document and you can print that out


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

The CSM+B is the trace correct ? And I do it opposite the other three ?


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

Or, take a look here - it tells you what to add down to the gram, and will also advise on how to make up fert solutions too....
http://calc.petalphile.com/


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Aceman said:


> The CSM+B is the trace correct ? And I do it opposite the other three ?


Yep


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## Aceman (Aug 16, 2014)

burr740 said:


> Yep



Awesome, thanks so much.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I was wondering if I was making a mistake on this one.
Since the trace is used on the off days that you don't dose the "other three"
and from what I've been reading you don't wanyt to dose the iron in the CSM+B on the same day as the KH2PO4...
I've been dosing the KNO3/K2SO4 and the CSM+B on the first day and the KH2PO4
on the next day.
I use the amounts found in the EI, but since I have no injected CO2 and low plant mass
I have been only using one dose per week on all bu the CSM+B.
I was told that it may not last a full week in the tank.
So that one gets dosed again on the fourth day.
Water change SAT then dose KNO3/K2SO4/CSM+B/GH booster(DIY, no K2SO4)
Sun. KH2PO4
Wed. CSM+B
Is that safe/effective or should I switch the CSM+B for the KH2PO4 on this regimen ?


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I would combine the KH2PO4 with the other macros and dose csm-b on a separate day by itself


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html

Bump:


burr740 said:


> I would combine the KH2PO4 with the other macros and dose csm-b on a separate day by itself


Easy enough to do. Will start this on the next WC day.
Thanks...


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