# Mr. Aqua 8.6 gallon: Chiaroscuro Operandi No.1



## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

Nice tank! I can't wait to see how it turns out. What do you plan on stocking it with?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks, me too! Some nano fish. Debating on some wild betta species such as persephone but could also go CPDs as well.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Love it! I like that the hard and plantscapes flow from right to left. Very Amano_esque_. (I noticed that many of Amano's scapes would flow right to left -- being Japanese, perhaps -- and most Western scapers flow left to right.) Anubias, MP, and Crypts...perfect for this hardscape. And that dark cave right of center is awesome.

Did you dry start or fill it right away?

Are you using one of those diffusers that create micro bubbles? How's it working for you?

Great job, amp. I'll be keeping my eye on this one. Update frequently.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks *Ugly Genius*! Good to see you back in the game again, will be following your progress as well!

I started this tank with the DSM at least for the first 3 weeks or so and I just flooded the tank about a week ago. The mosses more or less were able to attach themselves to the rock, while the plants are taking much longer to lock in. Im not too worried as the mosses will help anchor the plants to the rocks as well.

I am using one of those atomic diffusors sold at AFA and it works surprisingly well for me, it is attached to a paintball regulator.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

What regulator are you running?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Edit-- I just checked their website and can't seem to find the one that I have. They might have discontinued it. It was the Atomic V2 paintball regulator.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

just a small minor update.
decided to move downoi from the left side of the tank to the center of the tank, 








which makes the left side more open for so many activities.








so what should i use to fill up that spot? any suggestions? was thinking about doing something mixed- mini pellia otherwise is a default go to. Narrow mini java fern is also a possibility but the leaves might be a bit too long. Have they created Hygrophilla pinnatifida 'mini' yet? I would buy that so quickly for my scapes, the coloration would have been perfect.

I also need to procure a bit more Bolbitus heteroclita 'cuspida' soon to fill out some parts of the left side of the tank to preserve homogeneity. Otherwise, the tank still looks good.


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## RcScRs (Oct 22, 2009)

Do you feel like it's too busy?


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## LRJ (Jul 31, 2014)

Is that BGA up in the left corner?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

@RcScRs: no, not at all. I liken it to more of an impressionist piece. Each plant chosen for its ability to contribute to the painting. Highlights, dark shadows--but also shapes and textures add to the ensemble. Right now it might seem busy because plants haven't fully grown out. Once when they start growing out and merge with each other, things should appear to tone down. 
@LRJ: unfortunately yes. It's due to that portion of the tank being cut off from circulation.


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## cosmic_shaman (Oct 2, 2015)

Are those just some big rocks? Like from outside? 
I wish I could find some cool ones like that around here! 

I personally like busy, well-stocked tanks (at least the ones that I've seen since I joined this site a little bit ago), so this is very appealing to me. 
I look forward to seeing this as the plants progress in size


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## RcScRs (Oct 22, 2009)

Maybe our philosophies differ greatly, but I can see where you're going. I look forward to seeing it filled in.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

@cosmic_shaman: some of them were given to me by a friend (the two main pieces--from their backyard), others were found at petco (out of all places), and a lava rock bbq bag.

@RcScRs: thanks my friend. I hope i dont disappoint! Keep on doing what you do! Life would get too boring if we all made the same tanks. 









Here's that dappled impressionist mumbo jumbo that i was referencing. even the hair algae adds to the--- just kidding. will probably get a few amanos to deal with that. the older coral moss growth is dying but being rapidly replaced by new growth. ideally, it would be all filled out.









a baby Anubias 'petite' snuggling next to a Anubias 'white'


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

I think the tank's near-perfect for what it is. In addition to the great hardscape, the plant choices are impecable. (Except for the absence of bolbitis. I ding any tank without bolbitis! I love that stuff.)
To me the flow of the plants is quite convincing, meaning I can see them growing as they are here in nature of their own accord. 

Keep it up!

P.S. I wrote a more detailed post that got deleted when my daughter did what she does when she does what she shouldn't. I'm writing this much shorter reply on my iPad and I hate writing on my iPad. Either way, the gist was the same as what I wrote just now, albeit longer. If my daughter had even the slightest concept of what it means to be sorry - she hasn't the slightest - she'd say sorry and probably something to the effect of, "Ooh pretty!"


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## RcScRs (Oct 22, 2009)

Ugly Genius said:


> I think the tank's near-perfect for what it is. In addition to the great hardscape, the plant choices are impecable. (Except for the absence of bolbitis. I ding any tank without bolbitis! I love that stuff.)
> 
> To me the flow of the plants is quite convincing, meaning I can see them growing as they are here in nature of their own accord.
> 
> ...




I think this is where I disagree with this scape. Though not my preference of rock work, I will agree it's very fresh compared to the myriad of overdone iwagumis that are over manicured and always use sand to make up for the lack of plant variety, depth, or whatever else.

The planting though is somewhere I think can be done a little more carefully? I feel like especially in aquascaping, there's an idea of recreating nature, doing so usually in a controlled manner. However, when not done that way, it tends to look chaotic and sloppy and think that's my gripe right now with the tank.

It's weird how something something naturally appealing to eyes is the most artificial, and what does come naturally tends to not hit the same chords. I do think that when it does fill in, that continuity and order that I'm looking for will be more satisfied, but right now it does look messy to me.

lol I'm not sure what convicted me to write something so long and argumentative, but I really like how fresh and different this is turning out to be. Really jealous of your wonderful plants especially.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

I like it! Do you have plans to add any slightly larger buces or Anubis to add a little variety? Or are you keeping to petites only? And do you have any photos of the white lud? I'm not familiar with that plant


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

@Ugly Genius: well sir, I'll have you know that I actually have two species of bolbitis hiding there. One is B. heteroclita 'cuspida' while another is a new species introduced to the aquarium world known as Bolbitis sp. buea. I hope that is satisfactory.  I'll take pics when I get home from work.
@RcScRs: each to his own. As for control, you might have noticed that the scape is dominated by Anubias nana petite with a few whites. The bucephalandra are scattered throughout the anubias patch help with the chiaroscuro effect with their black leaves. As with nature, such as with plants a meadow, usually there are overly dominant species but patches of other species accent certain areas, while distinct the boundaries between two species may merge at the border, they are never sharply defined though we can achieve this if the plants vary in height. Hopefully I can achieve this goal once the plants fill out. 
@Mumford: I was thinking about that. The buce black skeleton kings are in the back and I think any more of them would be too much for the tank. A medium sized buces is in the tank (super blue) but they are still young so it will take them time to gain size. Maybe I could add in an Anubias pinto or regular sized nana but space would be an issue. I'll take pics of the white lug when I get home from work. But you can actually see it in one of my shots 10 posts up.


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## cosmic_shaman (Oct 2, 2015)

Petco! Never would've thought to look there! Thanks for the heads up


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

@cosmic_shaman, if you were curious, the brighter red rocks were the ones that were purchased from petco. the older rocks have been painted a bit with algae. hopefully the newer ones will follow suit.

@Mumford: as requested--
Lud 'white'









and just to throw it in:
Bolbitis sp. Buea aka Didymoglossum erosum









threw in a couple amanos. i hope they behave.


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## cosmic_shaman (Oct 2, 2015)

Awesome! Thanks so much. They're having a sale at the moment on tanks, and I was looking to get a bigger one, so when I'm there I'll have to check that out!


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

That white lud is insane!


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

@Mumford, seriously. I originally intended it to take up most of the left hand side to provide contrast with the Anubias, buce, bolbitis, moss area, but I am too impatient to get that entire area filled up through one stem so I settled for downoi instead (downoi has found itself to variegate over time so I'm hoping for that). 

Bought some needle leaf Java fern to fill up the left as well as bucephalandra blue hades for a dark backdrop for the forefront plants.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Amp, I have no experience with buce. Have you grown any? If so, what is your experience with them? I'm thinking of one for my tank, but I have done very little research on them.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Ugly Genius said:


> Amp, I have no experience with buce. Have you grown any? If so, what is your experience with them? I'm thinking of one for my tank, but I have done very little research on them.



Yes. The short answer to your question would be, it is the rich man's anubias. Grows insanely easy, a good current will perk them up though not a necessity. Could be low tech but does so much better with co2. Don't bury the rhizome, etc etc etc.The price tag is due to its recent discovery. Though easy to grow, it's growth rate is relatively slow.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

so, i performed a water change and managed to remove the amanos from the tank. ripping too much stuff off the rocks before they had a chance to establish themselves. keeping them in was doing more harm than the algae growing in the tank.



nothing much really to report, will take a full pic of the tank one when the other plants from the mail come in. until then---some notables...










i have no idea what this moss is called--it was growing with my pinguiculas and i said to myself "eh, why not" and tossed it into the tank. it has been submerged for 3-4 weeks now and hasnt shown any signs of dying just yet. hopefully it will even spread. not holding my breath since it might likely die, but one could hope. i wish to be pleasantly surprised. 












Caloglossa cf. beccarii-- went through an intense color and texture change recently--just noticed it today. cant tell if it is a good sign or a bad sign but wow! the color pops!



thats all for now folks!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Love the Caloglossa ср. Beccarii!!! I wish I could find some around my area FS.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

It's sold from time to time in this forum's for sale section.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

update on the tank...
well, i found a bumble bee nerite at petsmart yesterday. only one--would have picked up 3 but no others to be found.

someone shared with me a way to propagate Ludwigia 'white' it involves lowering the level quite significantly so that the plant readily touches the surface, in which case it starts to branch. good idea---but i am sure my java fern will throw a hissy fit. will probably let the stem reach an additional inch before i attempt anything.

no plants from the mail yet. first batch likely to come tomorrow, and another after that. tank should be fully planted by saturday.
no full tank shots until then, but for now, here are some pictures to keep your interest.




























as always, thanks for stopping by and taking a look.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Looking good! Are the plants meshing together well? And what were the amanos doing?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

they're merging well for the most part as you might be able to tell. moss, particularly the fissidens species and the pellia still need to fill out significantly.

amanos were just being amanos. uprooting plants before they could establish themselves. altering the terrain and involuntarily creating mudslides and eroding cliff faces by pulling them apart, granule by granule.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

so a minor setback--the mini java fern narrow leaf turned out not to be as mini as i hoped. so scratch that idea. decided to go with hygrophilla pinnatifida. this is my go to plant and i love everything about it---except it grows way too effin big. so here's my plan--im gonna prune the Ishtar out of it. prune it constantly so that it continuously makes shoots and so the leaves stay compact. if that area is successful, i might take out all the java fern trident and replace it with h. pinnatifida as i prefer that texture.

once the plant has grown tall enough, im going to snip it almost near the bottom to encourage off shoots. such a wonderful plant. you might have noticed the undersides have a metallic sheen underneath them. this actually allows them to reflect off light reflected from the anubias, creating that super wicked kewl iridescent green glow.









ludwigia white is making some progress. it's grown leaves and maybe half a cm since the last picture! grow faster!









here's the whole tank as promised. some things that need to be fixed--the back. i need to re-position the java fern, buce skeleton kings, and aridarums, so that they appear more natural. i could let the growth naturally do it, but that would take months, and patient as i am, that's too long to deal with. need more spread work with moss on the rock on the right. will probably use christmas moss for that.









tanks again.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Yep, that works for the left-hand side.

Tank's looking great!


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

The white plants are nice! Do they even have any chlorophyll? I never knew they existed. And the red moss looks so vibrant. Great plants selection!


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks UG! Let's see if my theory executed well in practice!

@bereninga, the anubias turn green as the leaves grow older. However bombarding them with light supposedly keeps them white longer. As for the white ludwigia, i was a bit hesitant initially purchasing it because of the chance the color was due to nutrient deficiency. I am relieved that it isn't the case.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

I just picked up some hygro pinni as well and plan to attempt the same. Love the smaller leaves but the large ones will take over my tank if I let them.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

@Mumford: at least there'll always be stems to sell. lol


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

so im facing a challenge, and i need an adult. tank is not getting enough flow. detritus is starting to accumulate on the leaves and i dont like it. anyone have any ideas as to what to use to help generate flow? most power heads are too bulky and obtrusive. for reference, i have a koralia nano and it is way too bulky for this tank.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

amphirion said:


> so im facing a challenge, and i need an adult. tank is not getting enough flow. detritus is starting to accumulate on the leaves and i dont like it. anyone have any ideas as to what to use to help generate flow? most power heads are too bulky and obtrusive. for reference, i have a koralia nano and it is way too bulky for this tank.


two words

canister filter


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I'll add to that two words as they go hand in hand with *Mumford*,

lily pipes


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

@Mumford: i already am utilizing a canister filter.  @Tihsho: i'll checkout the lilly pipes. what is the optimal placement?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

It really depends on the space in your tank. You definitely don't want the spiral options though. Lily pipes would be your best bet next to violet pipes (based on the shape)


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

thanks a lot @Tihsho, mind if i pick your brain a bit more? what is the difference between a lily and a violet pipe?

oh nevermind--- the price tag.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

No no, don't let the price tag fool you. I spent a lot of time searching and talking to people to find options. I ordered one set of pipes and broke an intake before I could even use it... It was my fault, but luckily it was a $30 set and not a $50 intake.

If you're willing to spend a lot of time measuring and know the space you've got to work with (as your tank is already setup) you can find a lot of options. If you have the budget I'd STRONGLY recommend Cal Aqua pipes. They are not ADA prices, but seem to be top quality from the builds I've seen with them. If you're looking for that JDM look and don't mind shelling out a bit more than the Cal Aqua price, then go ADA all the way. Until then look into the Chinese options which are made in the same location as ADA to the same spec, such as VIV and TNA.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Amp, what filter are you running?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

@Tihsho: thanks very much! looks like great minds think alike. i ended up purchasing this: CAL AQUA Fluxus Filter Pipes | Nano | Green Leaf Aquariums, though i was very much tempted to purchase this: CAL AQUA Efflux Pipe 13mm | Green Leaf Aquariums

@Ugly Genius: im running the Finnex px 360.

i want a current that makes my fish do something like this.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

That's an awesome video! If I were a puffer, that'd be me.

In addition to the pipes, I'd suggest a bigger filter. EHEIM 2211 or even the 2213. I ran a 2213 on a Mini-L, six gallons, and the flow was perfect.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

amphirion said:


> @Tihsho: thanks very much! looks like great minds think alike. i ended up purchasing this: CAL AQUA Fluxus Filter Pipes | Nano | Green Leaf Aquariums, though i was very much tempted to purchase this: CAL AQUA Efflux Pipe 13mm | Green Leaf Aquariums


That pipe you bought is my next in line pipe order if this one in the mail doesn't work out or fit. I figured I'd give another brand/model a chance before spending $100+ on two pieces of glass...

All I can say is... Mad jelly...


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

amphirion said:


> @Tihsho: thanks very much! looks like great minds think alike. i ended up purchasing this: CAL AQUA Fluxus Filter Pipes | Nano | Green Leaf Aquariums, though i was very much tempted to purchase this: CAL AQUA Efflux Pipe 13mm | Green Leaf Aquariums
> 
> @Ugly Genius: im running the Finnex px 360.
> 
> i want a current that makes my fish do something like this.


I think you made a good choice. Their staff recommended the nano for my 45p so I think you're fine 

I do want to eventually upgrade to these pipes as well.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

amphirion said:


> @Tihsho: thanks very much! looks like great minds think alike. i ended up purchasing this: CAL AQUA Fluxus Filter Pipes | Nano | Green Leaf Aquariums, though i was very much tempted to purchase this: CAL AQUA Efflux Pipe 13mm | Green Leaf Aquariums
> 
> @Ugly Genius: im running the Finnex px 360.
> 
> i want a current that makes my fish do something like this.


I think the nano one is better for smaller tanks. The long side of the F2 is just unnecessarily too long.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks everyone for affirming that I made the right choice! A bit nervous and buying the glass was a bit on the fly. I saw the possibility of using the F2 for a couple reasons: the downward orientation of the glass--id imagine that there would be a ton of downward flow. Also, almost all the plants showcased in the tank come from rheophytic environments that are filled with fast pacing currents. And increase in flow would pin many of these plants and mosses as close to the hard scape to prevent themselves from being caught and pulled into the current.

Then again, I can go for a stronger filter...and Eheim 2213 would definitely do it. Thanks for the suggestion Ugly! One step at a time. Maybe in a month or two.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

I second the 2213. I have it on a 6-gallon and it's def not overkill for a fully-stocked tank. Your tank looks like it's in a great place though, so I wouldn't rush to change anything.

For the lily pipes placement, I'd do the left or right side. I have mine right in the middle, facing the front of the tank, because I have a Fluval Edge and I have no choice. If I did, I'd put it on the ends because that would give the best flow.

I also like the hygrophilla pinnatifida you have. You mentioned that you wanted to replace the trident w/ more of it. Since it has those unique leaves, I think it's kind of cool that you have just that one place on the left for it. It's smallish size makes it more unique in the tank IMO.

What about the background do you feel looks unnatural?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

bereninga said:


> I second the 2213. I have it on a 6-gallon and it's def not overkill for a fully-stocked tank. Your tank looks like it's in a great place though, so I wouldn't rush to change anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the second recommendation. I'll hold off on the filter for now. 

The background in which sense? Unnatural in terms of how it is filled out? If so, then yes. But I also believe it's because the plants in the background aren't fully grown out. Once when it fills out things should look better. 

I see your point with only keeping hygrophilla pinnatifida on the left hand side, but I also want consistency and uniformity throughout the tank as i believe it gives the tank a more natural feel. I'll keep the trident around to see if it can fulfill its potential while I'm growing out more pinnatifida. Thanks for your suggestion.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I third (?) the 2213. I can't say much about it's flow with water, but right now it's flowing air really well (it's unplugged and waiting to be connected to a tank.)


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

amphirion said:


> The background in which sense? Unnatural in terms of how it is filled out? If so, then yes. But I also believe it's because the plants in the background aren't fully grown out. Once when it fills out things should look better.


Sorry, I probably should've added in a quote or reference. But I was referring to Post 32 of this thread. I guess my question is: how does it look unnatural?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

bereninga said:


> Sorry, I probably should've added in a quote or reference. But I was referring to Post 32 of this thread. I guess my question is: how does it look unnatural?



Ah. Gotcha. One thing about me---I'm a perfectionist (or anal retentive). For a tank to appear as natural, the placement and arrangement of plants must be distributed according to form (or in this case, species). Whether it is an African fynbos, a Californian chaparral, an Australian reef, or Amazon rainforest, you will most likely not see species in a randomized layout. What is more likely is that you will see like species alongside conspecifics, looking like colonies rather than individuals standing alone. The only reason why individuals would stand alone is due to progression into a new region, but these individuals would not be too far from the source colony. I try to arrange my plants very much in this manner.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

As an appreciation of thanks for helping me choose my lily pipes and eventually a new filter, here are a few more pics:

hygrophilla pinnatifida beginning to darken up.









cluster of plants #1









mini fissidens behaving like a cowlick. going against the grain of all the other growth...









B. mini catherine and A. petite kicking it.









L. sp white taking on a light pink tone









tank as a whole.









planning on adding a few more dark buces to provide more contrast.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Bravo!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Love the shots!


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Wow so much to look at!


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

bereninga said:


> Wow so much to look at!


yep! that was the entire point of the tank as well!


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

so i did it. took out all the java fern and threw in hygrophilla pinnatifida. and semi-regretting it---only because the pinnatifida hasnt grown out and the tank's backside looks exposed (pun intended). some tufts of moss are starting to fall off the lava rock because the water flow (directly under the powerhead) was too intense. once the pinnatifida has rooted, i am going to drain the tank, for the next two weeks or so, and use the moss/yogurt trick to get more moss spread (and that it will stick this time!)

its gonna get ugly before it gets better.....
im not gonna take any pictures for a bit. primary excuse is because the water looks ridiculously cloudy from a water change, but 2--my tank's heinny is hideous. maybe in a day or two, i'll feel better.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

What did you end up doing with the Java Fern you had?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

it's kicking it in my 20 gallon long. might sell it... or recycle it for another tank.
i also use it in my betta spawning tanks.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Well if you need to get rid of some needle leaf...


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Tihsho said:


> Well if you need to get rid of some needle leaf...


noted. ask me in a week or two when im done with them. arranging a couple of spawning tanks.

glass pipes havent arrived yet. 
hygrophilla likes to uproot and float due to current. 

but i got some lamandau purple and might have wet my plants i mean my pants....
this plant is pretty difficult to photograph. had to do some major color balance rework to match IRL.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

im still alive...here's a progress pic.
hygrophilla pinnatifida has finally rooted. hoping for some nice bushy growth.










thinking of adding a bit more mini pellia and fissidens fontanus. that's all for now.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Good recovery from the removal of the ferns. It's coming along nicely!


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks Ugly! It's hard waiting!


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

ludwigia 'white' looking lovely as of late.


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## limeslide (Jan 27, 2010)

amphirion... you and your aesthetics!!!!


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## Aquascapejackson (Feb 25, 2011)

The small points of white really look good in this tank. They add some contrast and stand out well.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

limeslide said:


> amphirion... you and your aesthetics!!!!


FRIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEND! Long time no see! Glad to see you on another part of the web!
@Aquascapejackson - thanks very much! it will be a time before more of the negative space gets filled out. slowly but surely. the ludwigia white is pacing decently.

edit: got some more pics for you. i've been recently distracted with betta spawns. trying to start a ctpk line from scratch. just lost an entire batch of fry this morning. not very happy about that...

but i know you guys dont care for that 

patience is.... i have one of this. but i need twenty...









it's gonna get worse before it gets better.









thinking in textures...









i really need to get some more coral moss...


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Judging by how much MP you've grown and how slowly MP grows, I'd say that you have lots of patience.

Tank's looking good!


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Gracias Ugly! I recently had two betta spawns last week, it does help speed the time.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

still alive, nothing really to look at right now. things filling out. 'white' finally decided to branch for me.










it looks hideous right now, but im sure it will get better.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

lol... this thread quickly devolved into a let's just watch a stem grow. sorry for the segue. but the plant is so darn interesting-- for example, apparently the white mutation is unstable as i recently found out:









it's still really pretty:

















any ideas as to the original identity?

but back to the pics that you really care about 

tank as a whole, bear with the L. 'white' i will eventually get to replant it and replace the downoi with it. but for now, it's pretty obtrusive.









as a matter of fact, let's just look at the right side of the tank for now.









the tank seems to look its best when viewed from a slightly higher angle...









thanks again for taking a look.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Love this tank, amp. I've been waiting for FTS for a while, but figured your fascination for white stem plants would fade just enough to give us what we want.

BTW, you're probably sitting on about five hundred dollars worth of MP there.


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## noseprint (Jun 29, 2015)

what a gorgeous, unique tank! I love how it's evolved. Any more thoughts on adding fauna?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Ugly Genius said:


> Love this tank, amp. I've been waiting for FTS for a while, but figured your fascination for white stem plants would fade just enough to give us what we want.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you're probably sitting on about five hundred dollars worth of MP there.



Hahhaa. Sorry mate, when you spend $15 on a single frail stem on a plant you have no info about you tend to be maybe a tiny bit invested? 

I'm glad too that the tank is finally taking off. H. pinnatifida is still under heavy pruning until it grows the way how I want it to grow.

As for $500, I wish... Hahhaa. Maybe somewhere in the $150 mark. I should keep track of these things. I wish the Anubias white would fork in the rhizome. That top right corner could use a little white.



noseprint said:


> what a gorgeous, unique tank! I love how it's evolved. Any more thoughts on adding fauna?



CPDs are a very good candidate for me, probably my #1 choice right now. I don't know of many flashy nanos. Already tried the boraras species so I'm done with those for now. If you have any other suggestions, I'm all ears. The only qualifier is that they can deal with flow. I originally wanted to do some Bettas from the coccina complex but decided not to.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

I kind of miss seeing the red from the rocks peeking thru. So if you plan to trim back the MP, I'd be interested to take some off your hands. 

Growth overall is looking very lush and this tank achieved that very natural look you were going for. 

You could try ember tetras. Those stay pretty small as well.


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## noseprint (Jun 29, 2015)

amphirion said:


> CPDs are a very good candidate for me, probably my #1 choice right now. I don't know of many flashy nanos.


If I'm remembering correctly, _pseudomugil furcatus_ like high flow, and they're a beautiful, interesting species. I know Hillstream Loaches and the true Freshwater Gobies do, too, but I don't know much about their tank size requirements.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

bereninga said:


> I kind of miss seeing the red from the rocks peeking thru. So if you plan to trim back the MP, I'd be interested to take some off your hands.
> 
> Growth overall is looking very lush and this tank achieved that very natural look you were going for.
> 
> You could try ember tetras. Those stay pretty small as well.



Thanks bereninga, I miss a lot of the red rock too. Nothing that a little trim to open things up again. That being said, it was mostly mini Christmas moss, not mini pellia. Better luck next time. I was considering the embers but I don't know how well they would do in strong current. Also I feel that the bright orange would be a bit overwhelming for the entire tank. CPDs are at least muted orange and mostly black/blue. I can mull on it a bit more, no rush here. 



noseprint said:


> If I'm remembering correctly, _pseudomugil furcatus_ like high flow, and they're a beautiful, interesting species. I know Hillstream Loaches and the true Freshwater Gobies do, too, but I don't know much about their tank size requirements.



I've looked into pseudomugil species as well. Would be nice to have cyanodorsalis but the combo of being an estuarine species and hard to find makes it a combo breaker for me. I heard that furcatus can be a bit aggressive with conspecifics so I'm slightly hesitant. They mostly hang on the surface too right? Hard to find those around here too unless I'm willing to drive a good 20+ miles to find a source. 

Freshwater gobies love to dig, which makes them unfavorable candidates since the rock work is a bit fragile. I'm not familiar with hillstream loaches but I don't think I have enough flow (funny) to accommodate their needs. 

Thanks for the suggestions! Please keep them coming!

PS-- aridarums might not be aquatic. Mine has just turning into mush without any replacement leaves. Might be because I'm doing it wrong. 

Jae or butterfly barbs would be amazing too but they don't like high flow.


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## JennieEilerts (Dec 1, 2015)

This is really a beautiful tank! I am not sure I have the patience for something like this, but I certainly enjoy admiring your handiwork! I'll keep an eye on this thread to see how it evolves.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

amphirion said:


> PS-- aridarums might not be aquatic. Mine has just turning into mush without any replacement leaves. Might be because I'm doing it wrong.


Oh no! I was curious about this plant last week, but never pulled the trigger on buying it. I'm hoping that it'll come back for you because that plant is pretty expensive. Which kind did you get and how long have you had it?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

JennieEilerts said:


> This is really a beautiful tank! I am not sure I have the patience for something like this, but I certainly enjoy admiring your handiwork! I'll keep an eye on this thread to see how it evolves.



Thanks very much Jennie, all that needs to be done is to add a few more Anubias whites, for the ludwigia white to fill out and a bit more. Otherwise I have a battle with thread algae to carry out.



bereninga said:


> Oh no! I was curious about this plant last week, but never pulled the trigger on buying it. I'm hoping that it'll come back for you because that plant is pretty expensive. Which kind did you get and how long have you had it?



It is the narrow leaf one, purchased sometime late September early October. I hope it recovers too, however I'm not holding my breath. A presumed terrestrial moss that I placed in the tank is holding much way better in comparison and has been in the tank longer.


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## JennieEilerts (Dec 1, 2015)

amphirion said:


> Thanks very much Jennie, all that needs to be done is to add a few more Anubias whites, for the ludwigia white to fill out and a bit more. Otherwise I have a battle with thread algae to carry out.


I love the way you've balanced the light, dark and mid-color plants throughout. That white Anubias is gorgeous! Is the rock that you used scoria? I *think* my husband is giving me a Mr. Aqua 12 long for the holidays... if so, I'm going to have to think about lava rock. It provides such a great foothold for plants and a really nice place for the biological filtering bacteria to live. 

Thread algae is a PITA. I have it in my shrimp tank right now. I had to tear the whole thing down and peroxide everything. It still came back in some spots, so I've been manually removing it. I will probably hit the more difficult spots with H2O2 this weekend.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

JennieEilerts said:


> I love the way you've balanced the light, dark and mid-color plants throughout. That white Anubias is gorgeous! Is the rock that you used scoria? I *think* my husband is giving me a Mr. Aqua 12 long for the holidays... if so, I'm going to have to think about lava rock. It provides such a great foothold for plants and a really nice place for the biological filtering bacteria to live.
> 
> Thread algae is a PITA. I have it in my shrimp tank right now. I had to tear the whole thing down and peroxide everything. It still came back in some spots, so I've been manually removing it. I will probably hit the more difficult spots with H2O2 this weekend.


Indeed, the hardscape was made using scoria, a bit of gravel too, to help with the erosion effect. the anubias is indeed a stunner but comes with a hefty price tag. Thing about lava rock is that it is unfortunately a mixed bag when it comes to character and quality. i love finding those gnarled textures but more often than not, they are few and far in between. most large lava rock pieces found in petstores have holes drilled in them, which im not a fan of. however, if you can find some pieces with real character and they happily match together to form an awesome landscape, the search is very well worth it.

For the thread algae, i've introduced a couple of SAEs into the tank, only temporarily until they've done their job. they usually love eating the stuff like spaghetti but they've been downing bloodworms as of late, i wonder if that makes them change their preferences. regardless, im keeping them in the tank for a week or so to see if there are any changes.

i also decided to go with cpds....


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## JennieEilerts (Dec 1, 2015)

amphirion said:


> Indeed, the hardscape was made using scoria, a bit of gravel too, to help with the erosion effect. the anubias is indeed a stunner but comes with a hefty price tag. Thing about lava rock is that it is unfortunately a mixed bag when it comes to character and quality. i love finding those gnarled textures but more often than not, they are few and far in between. most large lava rock pieces found in petstores have holes drilled in them, which im not a fan of. however, if you can find some pieces with real character and they happily match together to form an awesome landscape, the search is very well worth it.


I love scoria. I may have to go hiking up in the hills near my parents' house. They live in a big volcanic valley in Northern New Mexico. It's funny -- I used to always pass it by in favor of the glossy chunks of jasper and obsidian, but now I've got scoria in my sights. ;-) There are no rocks to speak of here in Denver. I guess if I went up towards the foothills I might find something, but probably not volcanic rock. We're on the far eastern side -- almost on the plains. The summer air is pierced by tornado sirens a few times a week -- that gives you an idea of how far out from the mountains we are. :-/ 



> For the thread algae, i've introduced a couple of SAEs into the tank, only temporarily until they've done their job. they usually love eating the stuff like spaghetti but they've been downing bloodworms as of late, i wonder if that makes them change their preferences. regardless, im keeping them in the tank for a week or so to see if there are any changes.
> 
> i also decided to go with cpds....


Do SAEs decimate shrimp populations? I have no experience with them. I wouldn't mind letting them go to town on this shrimp tank. It doesn't have a lot of algae, so they could probably clean it up pretty quickly. It's my tangerine tiger tank, though, and I'm scared they will do bad things to my TT's. I'm finally getting the shrimp back to breeding. 

I think CPD's will look brilliant in your tank! Their oranges aren't too bright, and then their trouty little spots should play off the white plants really beautifully. I can't wait to see pics!


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

JennieEilerts said:


> I love scoria. I may have to go hiking up in the hills near my parents' house. They live in a big volcanic valley in Northern New Mexico. It's funny -- I used to always pass it by in favor of the glossy chunks of jasper and obsidian, but now I've got scoria in my sights. ;-) There are no rocks to speak of here in Denver. I guess if I went up towards the foothills I might find something, but probably not volcanic rock. We're on the far eastern side -- almost on the plains. The summer air is pierced by tornado sirens a few times a week -- that gives you an idea of how far out from the mountains we are. :-/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you might be able to get some good pieces from landscape vendors, or from a generous neighbor (how i happened to get mine--she had a whole bunch just lining the front of her area, and was in process of getting her front lawn revamped. i asked if i could take a few pieces since she was throwing them out and she told me i could help 

SAEs and shrimp i cannot guarantee compatibility. i wouldnt say they would decimate shrimp populations, but ive seen photos and videos of them munching on cherries. sorry that they cant be an option for you. i've wanted to do shrimp as well, but couldnt decide on what to focus on. i love the black king kongs/pandas (is that what they're called? the ones that look like red wine bees but black) or the orange eyed black tigers. problem is that they would pull apart the hardscape, one granule at a time....


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## JennieEilerts (Dec 1, 2015)

amphirion said:


> you might be able to get some good pieces from landscape vendors, or from a generous neighbor (how i happened to get mine--she had a whole bunch just lining the front of her area, and was in process of getting her front lawn revamped. i asked if i could take a few pieces since she was throwing them out and she told me i could help


I might see what kind of landscape suppliers we have around here. That's awesome that your neighbor was just getting rid of the scoria! My friend gave me a bag of Aquasolum he brought back from Seattle. I'm super stoked to use it. 



> SAEs and shrimp i cannot guarantee compatibility. i wouldnt say they would decimate shrimp populations, but ive seen photos and videos of them munching on cherries. sorry that they cant be an option for you. i've wanted to do shrimp as well, but couldnt decide on what to focus on. i love the black king kongs/pandas (is that what they're called? the ones that look like red wine bees but black) or the orange eyed black tigers. problem is that they would pull apart the hardscape, one granule at a time....


I'll have to figure out how to get rid of this algae. I think I may start dosing with Flourish. It's not terrible anymore, but I don't want it to take a stronghold. 

Oh, those pandas are really cool! I had a couple of OEBT's that came with my TT's. They're super neat. I really enjoyed them. I think I had two of the same sex -- they never reproduced. :-(


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## dpod (Sep 16, 2014)

Amphiron, your tank is a living masterpiece! The combinations of textures and subtle color variations among the mosses, buces, and anubias captures the diversity of a wild moss bank to perfection. If you're not happy with the tank yet, I can't wait to see what you settle on in the future.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

dpod said:


> Amphiron, your tank is a living masterpiece! The combinations of textures and subtle color variations among the mosses, buces, and anubias captures the diversity of a wild moss bank to perfection. If you're not happy with the tank yet, I can't wait to see what you settle on in the future.


thanks very much dpod! practice makes perfect. im not completely happy with it, but its more of a waiting game now.

some updates: decided to whack the L 'white' stem and did some horizontal planting (forgot the terminology here...) removed some downoi crowns and placed them among the front.

hair algae looks like its starting to recede but still not eradicated. SAEs just taking their time it looks like.

decided im not liking the hairgrass. it was supposed to be e 'belem' but whether or not it is doesnt matter anymore, the grass grows way too long and is destroying the sense of scale. luckily i have a placement-- going to try out C. parva 'mini' offered by shaman. should be much more promising.

decided to also take out the aridarum narrows-- turns out the plant was just adjusting--rhizome still healthy and actually producing multiple growth points, but not making enough to contribute to the scape. will probably just allow the H. pinnatifida to take over that area of the scape. 

also, i need to replace the mini x-mas moss at the edge of the cave with mini pelia. i think i have enough to do that now--question is how to make it stick... go back into emersed growing for a few weeks again? 

i'll post pics when i have time.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

My 'belem' does the same thing. (I've tried stuff bought recently and some of the original 'belem' to come to the hobby via AFA back in 2008 or so.) Certain portions will behave somewhat, but there will be enough of the tall blades to throw off the effect I always hope to achieve. Low or high light, I've never got that it to behave as advertised.

Recumbent. Is that the word you were searching for?

If you do go emersed for the MP, I wonder if that will help fight the hair algae. I've been wanting to try that myself to see if it has any effect on algae.

Post picts when you get a chance.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Ugly Genius said:


> My 'belem' does the same thing. (I've tried stuff bought recently and some of the original 'belem' to come to the hobby via AFA back in 2008 or so.) Certain portions will behave somewhat, but there will be enough of the tall blades to throw off the effect I always hope to achieve. Low or high light, I've never got that it to behave as advertised.
> 
> Recumbent. Is that the word you were searching for?
> 
> ...


Almost, recumbent works. i'll take it. 
yep-- i think it's time E 'belem' and i part ways. im done with it. grass is growing way too slow and way too big. i wonder how afa gets theirs so low? constant trimming? their tanks were the reason why i wanted to grow it in the first place.

as far as algae fighting, it works well enough if the humidity isnt too high to the point where it keeps the algae hydrated. usually, it does not work well since lava rock wicks water via capillary action. can even trace the algae too-- came from some fissidens. should have peroxide bathed that... thought emersed growing would have had it covered but i guess not.

and pics...
the good:

























the bad:








pesky algae








to be replaced with mini pelia and maybe fissidens

the ugly:








this corner needs some work.








the hacked L.'white' laying on its side, with a dash of thread algae just to get the eye twiching.

but overall:








not too shabby.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

I'm looking forward to seeing the C. parva 'mini' in this set up. The overall shot looks great.


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