# What Filter for ~75g?



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

How much filtration you needs depends on your bioload, but you do need lots of flow. You could get by with a smaller filter if you use powerheads (cheaper) to boost flow instead. If you put sponge prefilters on the powerheads you can get filtration out of those as well.

Nothing wrong with using HOB filters on a tank if you're not injecting CO2. If you go with 2x HOBs I'd get very big ones, though- I'd go with either 2x of the biggest Emperors or 2x AquaClear 110s, something along those lines.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

Eheim 2217 classic.  and an emperor.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

im probably not going to inject co2.. at most maybe a DIY system... i was told that java ferns/phillipine java ferns/ fissidens/xmas moss do not require a lot of co2 so co2 injection isnt necessary- although it will boost growth.. Whats the best filter though.. Marineland emperors? Penguin Bio-wheels? Aquaclears? Also what sizes should i get? Two of them for 70 gallon tanks?


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

They have a Marineland emperor thats for up to 80 gallons.. would one of those be sufficient? 400 GPH?
http://www.petco.com/product/5541/Marineland-Emperor-Filter-Systems.aspx?CoreCat=FishFC_Filters


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

There are many suitable filters for a tank that size at the LFS. Look at things like Eheim 2217, Fluval fx5/405, Rena xp4, etc. You may be happiest running something like 2x 2217s or a bigger canister like the FX5 with a split return to get good circulation throughout the tank. If you want to go a little cheaper, a single 2217 or xp3/4 type filter with a couple powerheads will likely serve you well. I can't remember how tall a 75gal is, but if it's 24 inches or more, then HOB filters dont circulate water at lower levels very well, if at all.

If your going to go by what the manufacturer says the filter can handle tankwise, I'd double up. Get enough filter for 150 gallons. You'll be looking for something like 500-600 or more GPH. The actual flow from the filters will be considerably less than what is claimed.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

I think twin 2217s are the best, but its a matter of price.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

i dont want cannister filters =/.. too much headache and way too expensive.. Anyhow, the one im looking at at petsmart is 230$ for the tank with the hood and lighting, and they want like 150 or something for a plain black stand.. pretty darn cheap! Another 150 lets say on filters, i already have a brand new heater that i ordered for the 35g i was gona redo before deciding to buy a new tank, but i might just buy a new new heater and put the new one in the 35g tank and set it up downstairs and put watever fish my mom likes.
The tank from petsmart is 21" high.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Would you say the Marineland Emperor Power model 400 is better or the Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheel 350? the Bio-wheel is cheaper, as are its refills.. Keep in mind im buying Two of these.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...ltration+&amp;+Circulation&ab=pt_powerfilters

http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...ltration+&amp;+Circulation&ab=pt_powerfilters

The emperor seems like the better choice.. are there any power filters even better than these?


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

Seems like you are set on using a HOB filter... If you want to buy either of the ones listed above, take the time to figure out what you'll be spending on filter cartridges over the span of a year. Your "cheap" filter might be just the opposite. 
The reason why most people on here use and recommend canister filters is they work well, you don't have to keep buying cartridges, and the cleaning is pretty minimal. (i clean out my eheim 2215 about twice a year.) You can also find regular accounts of 15-20 year old eheims still in use. You normally don't get that reliability in a HOB.
Don't know what "headache" you are anticipating, but it might be worth the research to see if your assumptions are wrong. 

That said, if you are still dead-set on using a HOB, Aquaclear is a good choice. Affordable, no cheesy cartridges, and you can use your own media. Biowheel et al. is just marketing crap, a sponge is a sponge.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

A canister filter is like 160$ for a 75g.. Plus the overflow is another 80+.. And (i think) you have to drill through the tank right? the water goes into the canister from the overflow and has to get back in somehow.. Plus you need the sump thing and whatever.. any chance you can explain the setup? i honestly have no idea, only that two filters are cheaper than the canister setup. I have no problem putting out an extra 75$ on a filter or watever, just that it seems to me like a pain in the a$$ to set it up. Do you have to drill into the tank to put the water back into it? please explain...


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

AquariumNoob said:


> A canister filter is like 160$ for a 75g.. Plus the overflow is another 80+.. And (i think) you have to drill through the tank right? the water goes into the canister from the overflow and has to get back in somehow.. Plus you need the sump thing and whatever.. any chance you can explain the setup? i honestly have no idea, only that two filters are cheaper than the canister setup. I have no problem putting out an extra 75$ on a filter or watever, just that it seems to me like a pain in the a$$ to set it up. Do you have to drill into the tank to put the water back into it? please explain...


you are so wrong, a cansiter filter is exactly what the name says, a filter in a canister. what you are thinking of is a sump. overflow+return pump+ extra tank in the stand and a whole lot of other crap.

canister filter are easy to use, and probably the best filtration for planted tanks


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

I think you might be better off starting with something smaller like a 10 gallon....


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

TeamTeal said:


> you are so wrong, a cansiter filter is exactly what the name says, a filter in a canister. what you are thinking of is a sump. overflow+return pump+ extra tank in the stand and a whole lot of other crap.
> 
> canister filter are easy to use, and probably the best filtration for planted tanks


I knew that.. haha.. never bothered to really research them. Anyhow, do they require you to drill into the tank?


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

AquariumNoob said:


> I knew that.. haha.. never bothered to really research them. Anyhow, do they require you to drill into the tank?


no they dont, people choose to drill their tank because an overflow system might lose siphon and flood your house, but theres no need to drill a tank to use a canister filter. overflow is used for sumps


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

wait.. then where do the hoses for the canister go to/from? you just throw em in through the hood?


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

What you described is a sump. That is indeed a pain in the butt, especially for a beginner. It's also completely unnecessary for a freshwater tank, as it's mostly used for saltwater tanks. 

A canister filter sits under the stand, with hoses running up to plastic (or glass) tubes that hang over the edge into the aquarium. The water goes in one pipe, down a tube, through the filter, than back up another hose and though a pipe into the aquarium. They are very easy to set up, zero drilling required.
Here is an example of a very small canister filter on a 5 gallon tank for reference...








Credit to Chase127 on here.

These things literally take ten minutes to install. No tools needed. 

As far as price goes... get out of petsmart, and start looking online! Petsmart is fine for buying the tank and stand, but their prices on equipment is not great. check out big al's, foster and smith, thatpetplace. You can pick up an eheim 2217 for $140 shipped on big als.The 2217 is an amazing filter, it works great and is uber-reliable. 
but if you wanted 2 canisters, you might want to check out the Sun Sun filters. they are basically a cheaper chinese filter, but supposedly are working quite well for lots of people on here. Here is a link to a thread reviewing them.

Finally... xmas' idea isn't a bad one. Have you thought about getting a smaller tank and really getting a feel for the hobby before you invest in a big set-up? A 20 gallon high or a 40 gallon breeder are good starter tanks to make lots of mistakes with, (you will make mistakes, we all do) and they are easier to maintain and correct problems in.
That said, if your heart is set on a 75 gallon, by all means get it. Especially if you have an understanding mother... as you get older, you might find girlfriends/wives have a much lower tolerance for that much water in their house. :tongue:


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Indignation said:


> What you described is a sump. That is indeed a pain in the butt, especially for a beginner. It's also completely unnecessary for a freshwater tank, as it's mostly used for saltwater tanks.
> 
> A canister filter sits under the stand, with hoses running up to plastic (or glass) tubes that hang over the edge into the aquarium. The water goes in one pipe, down a tube, through the filter, than back up another hose and though a pipe into the aquarium. They are very easy to set up, zero drilling required.
> Here is an example of a very small canister filter on a 5 gallon tank for reference...
> ...


Haha ive had tanks for years.. just never really did any research regarding em.. Had a 1.5 gallon for 3 or 4 years.. then stepped it up to a 10 gallon for 3 years.. now ive got my 37 Gallon which ive had for about 2 years.


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

AquariumNoob said:


> Haha ive had tanks for years.. just never really did any research regarding em.. Had a 1.5 gallon for 3 or 4 years.. then stepped it up to a 10 gallon for 3 years.. now ive got my 37 Gallon which ive had for about 2 years.


with no knowledge of filtration til now?


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Oh, and i wanted 2 filters because the normal power filters generally only go up to 70 gallons, so i figured i would just get two of them for a 75 gallon.. I would think that one canister filter is enough for a 75 gallon, right? ill check out that eheim 2217. Is one of those enough for a 75g? Planning on having maybe 36 neon tetras and a few others or something.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

TeamTeal said:


> with no knowledge of filtration til now?


Pretty much, when it comes to canister filters. Never bothered to learn about em' as i never had one and didnt think i would ever get the chance to need one =). Thants why im here.. lol if i knew about canister filters, i wouldnt be on this forum .


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

You could get away with a single 2217 on a 75g, if you added a powerhead of two for extra flow. plants need lots of water moving past them to be healthy.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp17290/si1382920/cl0/eheimfilter2217pluskit
That 2217 comes with the intake and everything right? No need to buy other tubes/pipes or anything? Indig can you include a link to a suggested powerhead? Might need help setting this thing up too haha.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

Haha it comes with everything you need. Ill make you an offer that I leave open for everyone else, if you get a 2217 pm me and ill send you my work number and tell you over the phone how to set it up.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Haha deal.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

One reason I prefer the AquaClear HOBs is that you don't have to replace any filter cartridges, especially if you use Purigen instead of the carbon bag. 

You won't regret getting a 2217, though you'll probably still need a few powerheads for more flow once the filter seasons (flow slows down) and the plants fill in.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

What power head would you suggest getting, assuming i dont want to have to buy a new one every week .


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Also, what substrate would you suggest? Im looking for a lighter color.. tans/browns.. should i just stick with natural rocks?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I don't use powerheads, but Koralias usually have a good rep.

Turface would probably be right up your alley, and very affordable. Comes in a tan color and would be superior nutrient content and CEC over plain gravel.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

If you are gonna spend the money for the koriola why not spend the extra few bucks and get an emperor 280. It will offer an equal amount of flow but also filtration, even if you toss the carbon pad and cut a 100 micron filter to size and use it as a water polisher.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

F22 said:


> If you are gonna spend the money for the koriola why not spend the extra few bucks and get an emperor 280. It will offer an equal amount of flow but also filtration, even if you toss the carbon pad and cut a 100 micron filter to size and use it as a water polisher.


You mean instead of getting a powerhead just dish out a few more bucks and get a 2nd filter other than the canister filter? I guess that makes sense...? Extra filtration plus still works like a powerhead o_0..


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

How big of a powerhead should i get? How many GPH (if i go with the powerhead)? Should i go with maybe two smaller ones or just get one bigger one..


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dude! Make up your mind.  
2 smaller power heads would work. Like I said though, I would set the tank up waaaaaay easier though, get the eheim, put the intake in the center, have the spray bar coming across the top (about 3-4" off the top of the tank angled down very slightyl to have a bit of movement along the bottom. On the other side I would have the emperor 280 setup with the short intake instead of the super long one, this way debris is removed from 2 heights of the tank, the emperor moves a TON of water, I would say go this way mate.


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

I'm huge fan of the koralias... the low pressure, high flow of propeller-style pumps is great for completely circulating water. On top of that, in my experience the fish love swimming in the flow. 

You can pick up one of the new Koralia 750s for 23 bucks. I'm going to respectfully disagree with f22, as the koralia will put out literally over twice the flow of an emperor 280 for half the price.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

AquariumNoob said:


> They have a Marineland emperor thats for up to 80 gallons.. would one of those be sufficient? 400 GPH?
> http://www.petco.com/product/5541/Marineland-Emperor-Filter-Systems.aspx?CoreCat=FishFC_Filters


If you are going to run CO2, you would want to remove the Bio Wheel. It will off gas CO2.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

$150 on sand? I'd rethink that part if you are on a budget.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

@Indignation,

it doesn't remove anything, it just blows crap around the tank 

$38 for a nasty filter system is better than $23 to push water around, in my book... 

agree to disagree?


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

i mean at that point its better to spend the extra $12 and get the emperor 400 and really go nuts with both flow and filtration don't ya think?

besides, those pumps sitting in the tank are FUGLY


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

F22 said:


> i mean at that point its better to spend the extra $12 and get the emperor 400 and really go nuts with both flow and filtration don't ya think?
> 
> besides, those pumps sitting in the tank are FUGLY


Now, we definitely can agree to disagree on that! :hihi:

I HATE the look of HOBs, i think they clutter the tank. While a big ole' powerhead sitting in the tank isn't pretty either, at least you can hide it with hardscape. I put my Koralias behind driftwood and stands of stem plants, so it's not visible at all. 

I definitely agree with more filtration the better, just wasn't sure how much total tank circulation he would get with a HOB and 2217.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

emperor 400-400gph
eheim 2217- 264gph

even with the eheim scaled back after it gets dirty and seasoned lets say it loses half the flow, that leaves us 132gph, + 400 from the emperor and we are at about 532gph, that is plenty of flow for a 75g tank. I have that much flow on my 90g cichlid tank 

as far as the look, i suppose thats personal choice. I do the same thing where i camoflauge the filter behind stuff and it works great, a driftwood chunk with "arms" is a great way to disguse the extension tube from a HOB filter... Like i said though, i don't see a point in moving water to not clean it


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Ill have to agree with F22 .. although indignation is right.. its pretty easy to hide a powerhead behind a rock or some plants or something..


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Hey what do you guys think about Aqueon fish tanks? i was offered a "75 gallon black tank with pine stand, glass canopy, and 48 inch deluxe strip light w/bulb" for 349.99 which is what petsmart is charging only theirs a top fin stand and tank.. Wats better? top fin or aqueon? the 350 is actually only like 250$ or so because if i dont spend the money i make on ebay, its going into my dads business acct which he has to pay like 50% taxes on soo yea.. id prefer spending money on paypal than cash.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

The lighting bites, but its a good deal. Pm me, I may be able to do better I run a pet store in N.NJ


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

I hope so =D.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Heya, whats a good but not too expensive subtrate? http://www.petco.com/product/111998...plete Planted Black Aquarium Substrate-111998
Was looking at that.. its a pretty good price and reviews say its OK? what do you guys think?


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

alot of people use eco complete, as well as fluorite. but turface is a cheaper option and they come in a 50lb bags, 1 should be plenty for 75g


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

really? 1 bag of 50g is enug for 75g? do i need to mix it with anything or only use turface as substrate.. i know that a lot of people that have the one from petco mix it with gravel.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

turface isn't very dense, so 50 pounds takes up a lot more space than 50 pounds of sand. 


I use a fluval 404 on my 75 gallon and it works fine. Had two, one broke and it had no impact on water quality. The plants suck up ammonia too, so you don't need much (maybe not any) biomedia.
Aquaclear 110s are also nice; much better than the marineland emperor/penguin versions IMO. You could buy two for the price of a canister filter.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

FSM said:


> turface isn't very dense, so 50 pounds takes up a lot more space than 50 pounds of sand.
> 
> 
> I use a fluval 404 on my 75 gallon and it works fine. Had two, one broke and it had no impact on water quality. The plants suck up ammonia too, so you don't need much (maybe not any) biomedia.
> Aquaclear 110s are also nice; much better than the marineland emperor/penguin versions IMO. You could buy two for the price of a canister filter.


That was my original idea.. Because if i get a canister filter i gotta get powerheads or another filter to increase flow.. On the other hand, though, changing two filter things (forgot what theyre called) every month can get quite expensive.. In the span of 2 years youve exceeded the cost of a canister filter..


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Anyone know an online store that sells turface? if not, what stores would have it in stock?


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

This thread is complicated. Subscribed.

edit:

For a summation:

2 hob's = 1 canister filter

If CO2 (now or later), then canister filter is (arguably) better

Canister filter = no changing of media (except fine filter pads?)

If canister filter, then add Powerhead or additional hob (if increased flow is desired)

If hob = aquaclear, then less changing of filter media (on that note, I don't know how old mine is)


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

AquariumNoob said:


> That was my original idea.. Because if i get a canister filter i gotta get powerheads or another filter to increase flow.. On the other hand, though, changing two filter things (forgot what theyre called) every month can get quite expensive.. In the span of 2 years youve exceeded the cost of a canister filter..


search turface online and you will see a website that will show you distributors around the US


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

hey ive been looking around to see who's got the cheapest eheim 2217 (so far ebays winning at 140$ free shipping) and found this on amazon..
http://www.amazon.com/Eheim-ECCO-Ex...?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1282467610&sr=8-21
Are they any better? for some reason its cheaper, shouldnt it be more expensive? generally in filters bigger #=more/faster flow=for bigger tanks..?


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

Say no to eheim eccos. 

Get the classic. As far as the cost for changing filter media in the HOB,buy hbh media pads and cut them.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

F22 said:


> Say no to eheim eccos.
> 
> Get the classic. As far as the cost for changing filter media in the HOB,buy hbh media pads and cut them.


HBH? as for the filter media you can get 24 on ebay for like 2$ each shipped which in the long run is cheap, but i dont want to spend like 50$ just on media right now for the next 2 years. Id rather stick to 4 at a time.. that way if something goes wrong with the filter you dont have 50$ wortha media lying around lol.. So, aquaclear or Marineland emperor?


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

> That was my original idea.. Because if i get a canister filter i gotta get powerheads or another filter to increase flow.. On the other hand, though, changing two filter things (forgot what theyre called) every month can get quite expensive.. In the span of 2 years youve exceeded the cost of a canister filter..


If you're just running biomedia and sponges, you don't need to replace anything very often. Sponges can be squeezed and rinsed in a bucket of tank water. Same with biomedia, but it likely wont get clogged if it isn't real dense. Using a sponge prefilter will keep the big debris out of your filter, extending maintainence intervals even further.

I don't know how often you'd want to change something like purigen, as I have never used it. Carbon is nice to remove meds or off colors from driftwood, etc, but most planted tanks don't use carbon.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Why wouldnt they use carbon? does it remove nutrients or something?? i was planning on using the carbon filter if i get an HOB to run with the 2217 im planning on getting.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

I was thinking, would it work if i put around 1" of this 
http://www.petco.com/product/111998/Eco-Complete-Planted-Black-Aquarium-Substrate.aspx
with normal pea gravel in the color i want on top? Or would the gravel sink below the dirt and have the dirt come up? I was planning on having light colored gravel.. is dirt/substrate really necessary?


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

It doesn't cost any more to use carbon in a canister than it does to use it in a HOB filter. I only use the sponge and the biomedia though, and haven't ever replaced any of it.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Hey just wondering, is it only Neon tetras/cardinals that tend to die A LOT or is it ALL tetras? because if they really die that much then ill give up on them and just get some other tetras and maybe some danios or guppies or something.. Was looking at chichlids and i love them but theyre relatively expensive (i can get like 6 tetras for the cost of one chichlid) and arent as hardy.. i prefer cheap, easy fish.. chichlids are (i think) a lot more sensitive.. plus i read that they destroy plants.. Anyone here got chichlids? what did you use to decorate the tank if you didnt use plants?


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

Heya, I got the eheim 2217 in the mail and opened it up. Where should i put the intake/spray bar? any specific location or does it not matter? i was thinking spray bar=middle, and intake at the left corner.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

If that's the only filter you're running, I'd put them at opposite sides of the tank if possible.



> Anyone here got chichlids? what did you use to decorate the tank if you didnt use plants?


That's a pretty wide open question. There are all sorts of cichlids, some of which are a bit sensitive, some of which will live in your toilet. Many African cichlids come from lakes that have very high pH and hard water, which wouldn't be suitable for many planted tanks. Other cichlids like soft water. Most are fairly hardy and adaptable. For example angelfish are cichlids. Many get too large or are too aggressive. Some are small and relatively peaceful. I have little Apistogramma in my planted tank (he's my avatar). Just look up whichever cichlid you like to see how big they get and where they come from. There are quite a few cichlids that are suitable to a planted tank.


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

im running the eheim 2217 canister filter along with the marineland emperor 400 power filter (which is huge- its like at least 1.5' from left to right)


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## AquariumNoob (Aug 18, 2010)

i can have the intake with the power filter on the left side and the output for the canister filter on the right.. but that would mean that a lot of what the canister is picking up is relatively clean already.. i guess i can put the power filter in the middle, the spray bar on the right, and the input on the left..?


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

The HOB doesn't have the ability to change output direction, which makes placement a bit more difficult. Why not try setting up in a few different ways and see what the flow looks like. I like to watch tiny bubbles in my tank and see where they go to throughout the tank. I especially pay attention to the back corners, and the path they take from the filter outflow since that's the entry point for the CO2 enriched water. I always find the back corners of the tank to be the most difficult places to get good flow. I recently moved my intakes to the bottom of the back corners of my 65 to try and make up for this.


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## chrisnif (Aug 20, 2010)

FWIW, I am setting up a 90 gallon with a Cascade 1200 (made for 150 gallons, around 300 gph). I plan on getting myself a bit more filter, I have a lot of stuff lying around, maybe a merlin fluidized bed that's going back  I also plan on putting koralia nanos in each corner. The new ones run 250 or 450 gph and are quite a bit smaller than the regular 750+ gph models.


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