# Newbie looking for some advice/direction



## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

Hi guys I'm new to the forum. I'm really interested in starting a planted tank with some tropical fish. I used to have tropical fish about 20 years ago when I was a kid and really enjoyed watching them. We've just recently lost our last dog (she was old and got pretty sick :icon_sad: ) and I'm now wanting to get back into tropical fish. 

I've been reading through some of the different threads for the past day or two and found some of the stuff very daunting but have a good idea of what i want to achieve. Basically in the tank I would like to have the bottom of it carpeted, i've read this can be done pretty simply with java moss? is there any other plant/s that would make a good carpet? Also i would like to have some rocks and possibly drift wood with moss growing on them, that seems pretty simple to do (tie java moss to them) I'll also be planting something like java ferns and other easy to maintain plants. 

To start with fish wise I'd really like to get tetra again as they were my favourite when I was younger.

This is the tank I'm thinking of getting. Would this be suitable for what i want or a bit too much? 

The next thing I'm not too sure about is substrate. I've read numerous threads from different sites and can't really figure out what to use. I've read good things and not so good things about Eco-Complete. It seems like a simple way of getting substrate but is expensive. I've used the substrate calculator on here and it says i'll need around 125lb of eco-complete for a decent bed. For me to buy that and get delivered will be around £112.00  I may have done something wrong there. I've read about using top soil and caping it with sad/gravel but that seems like a bit more hassle than i really want. Although i do like the look of sand in an aquarium. 
Basically I'd like to keep the tank as low tech as possible. 

Oh and the only half decent pet shop for me is pets at home just over 15 miles from me so I'll prob be ordering most of my stuff online. Unless anyone here knows of any good aquarium pets shops in the Perthshire and surrounding areas?

Any help/advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks for you time
Alex.

P.S. Sorry if this is in the wrong part of the forum


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Hey Alex, carpets aren't that easy. Specially if you don't want to spend that much in substrate.

If I had to start a tank, I would buy a 20long, a canister filter and LOW light.

Start with a smaller tank, make it a bit easier on you, avoid sized frustration 

More filtration in my opinion is less work and clear water

I would invest in good substrate tho. I definitively don't like the idea of a capped substrate, I like to move things around as I'm still learning and I'm not as good to decide what is going to happen with a layout and never uproot plants.

If you make sure you get LOW light then you can avoid needing CO2. And you will probably have NO algae problems.

As for fertilizers I would get dry ferts macros and micros from green leaf aquariums. Seachem liquid ferts are a joke to me in price. Dry ferts are super cheap last for years and you can mix up custom.

I found that buying from sellers here at the forum is way cheaper and they will help you figure what you need instead of just getting your money.


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

Hey Alex,

Welcome to the forums, and to the hobby. Here are a few of my random thoughts as I read through your post. First, a carpet is a great look to an aquarium, but is of course, a more advanced aquascaping technique. Java moss is a great low tech plant, and could carpet well if done properly. I'd suggest using the mesh method when you are ready to plant.

The tank looks great, and the fact it comes with a stand is great too. However, I'm skeptic about the lights and the filtration systems. The filtration system says it pumps 900L/hr, this is simply too little, or about half of what you would want. You generally want 10x the tank volume pumped per hour, so somewhere around 2000L/hr. Next, the lighting does not specify whether it is T5NO or HO. Im going to assume since it has 3 bulbs that it is NO. At 19" high, depending on how good the reflectors are, this will give you about 10 PAR per bulb, for 30 PAR or low light. I guess this would work for very slow growth, low tech.

Next, almost any tetra would be fine in this size tank. In fact, you could have quite a large school if you wanted to go that route. Rocks and driftwood are also your choice, and can be varied any way you like. Moss looks great when filling in driftwood.

Finally, you calculated pretty accurate with the eco complete. Heres how I think about it. Why skimp on substrate? A substrate like eco complete provides nutrients to root feeding plants, and into the water column for others. Even more so for substrate such as aqua soil or fluval plant stratum. Thats not to say you can't get away with using just sand or gravel, but you'd need to supplement with a lot more root tabs.

I hope any of this helps


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

Thanks for the input guys.

I think I'm going to have a re-think on what tank to get. I've found that I can get a 24Lx15Hx12W tank from pets at home which would give me approx 72 litres. Is the Fluval 206 canister filter good? I'm looking at one just now and it says it pumps 780LPH which would be plenty for that size of tank.

I can also get a hood and stand for the tank from pets at home. The filter I would have to mail order. 

I'm really not sure what lighting i would need for it though? I've been looking around and there is so many different kinds, it's getting a bit confusing! lol. The hood for the tank has a compartment in the back to house lighting equipment and the light itself can be fitted on the inside of the hood. I remember when I first stated I had a light fitting like this. Would something like that be fine for what I need and what kind of bulb would i get for it?

I'm pretty sure I'll go with the Eco-Complete with this tank as I'll only need approx 3 bags so it's now half the price of what it was before roud: 

Thanks again for the help :smile:


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

Heres a few questions so that we can decide what is best for you:

Will you dose ferts?
Will you want to use co2?
What growth rate are you looking for? 
What plants do you think you will want?

I think your choice in size is perfect for starting. Once you let us know about the above, we can help you find suitable lighting, etc


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Those are great questions. 

With low light and active substrate, say fluval stratum, you may not need to inject co2 nor fertilize and will grow awesome plants slowly.

About the filter, I like having 2 filters, 2 canisters or one canister and one HOB. You can get creative with the HOB, put plants in it. When you have 2 filters you can service one and the other keeps working. Also HOBs are easier to access if you want to use carbon or purigen or refill top offs for evaporation in there instead of directly to the tank.



I love that you are smart enough to research before dumping money. My respects to that.


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

I'd like to start pretty basic but with the possibility to getting more advanced in the future. So at the moment I'd like to keep away from co2 and try keeping the use of ferts to a minimum to begin with.

Growth rates of the plants aren't too important to me to begin with. I'd rather let thing go slow as I feel it might be a bit easier to handle.

Plants I quite like the look of are the Java fern, Java moss (attached to rocks etc) are there any plants that are fairly easy to grow which look like grasses? I've heard/saw dwarf sag in an aquarium vid on youtube that I liked the look of. I'll probably have a better idea of what kind of plants I like if I get to see them up close at the weekend.

I had a look at some over head lighting here just the 24 watt one. I'm not 100% sure if it comes with the bulbs though, but what I don't want to end up with it too much light for what I want.

I've found an Aquarium shop about 20 miles from me that I think I'll take a visit to at the weekend to have a wee look around and maybe ask a few questions.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Watch out with asking questions to a local fish store. There is horror stories about that. Few stores are planted tank specific and are not going to try to sell you as much as possible. IME.


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

Thanks for the info! Now, down to business.

Since you want to keep your tank pretty low tech, the plants you have picked are good starter plants. If you want an awesome plant, try jungle vallisneria. It looks like a very tall/long grass that, when it reaches the water line, will droop over your tank like a canopy. Its very beautiful. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/m...6&n=Jungle_Val_Vallisneria_americana_gigantea

Dwarf sag is great, but its lighting requirement is a bit higher.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myPlants.php?do=view&p=113&n=Dwarf_Sagittaria_Sagittaria_subulata

Some other plants you may want to look at, which are available almost anywhere, is anacharis and anubias. Great plants for low tech imo, but not very grass-like. Stay away from micro swords, amazon swords. They won't do well.

Since you want to stay low tech, I highly suggest getting eco complete or even aqua soil. In the long run it will save you money on ferts and offer your plants much better nutrients. 

As for lighting, you have two basic choices. LED or T5NO. This LED fixture will give you 30ish PAR, and is available most places:

http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/Detail.aspx?id=3403

Personally, though, I'd probably go with this light:

http://www.marineandreef.com/Aqualight_T5_Freshwater_Aquarium_Lighting_Coralife_p/res58120.htm

This will give you just below or at medium light. If you start to have too much light, which you probably wouldn't, you could just raise it a few inches by bending the legs. I had two of these fixtures which I just sold.



Alex84 said:


> I'd like to start pretty basic but with the possibility to getting more advanced in the future. So at the moment I'd like to keep away from co2 and try keeping the use of ferts to a minimum to begin with.
> 
> Growth rates of the plants aren't too important to me to begin with. I'd rather let thing go slow as I feel it might be a bit easier to handle.
> 
> ...


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## 50089 (Dec 11, 2011)

Nice tank! Personally I think starting off bigger is always better. There's more room for error in larger tanks due to the larger volume of water and once you get started you'll probably wish you went bigger down the road. 

I'll just mention cycling, which is very important. You can do fish-in or fishless but read up on the nitrogen cycle and understand it before you decide which route you'd rather go. A good liquid test kit (API Master) is a must as well. I've written a getting started guide that's up on another forum but I don't know if I can post it here. PM me and I can send you the link.


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

Hey guys,

I really appreciate all the help/information :icon_smil

I think I'm getting closer to ordering some bits and pieces soon. The one problem I'm having at the moment is finding a suitable lighting system like the ones Trickerie mentioned over here in the UK. All of the online aquarium shops seem to stock overhead lighting of 2x24W and up. I did however find a couple of ebay shops that sell T5 3x14W overhead units (2xWhite light @ 6500k and 1xBlue light) you can have either all of the lights on, just the two white ones or just the blue one. Do you think this might be a suitable light system for what I need?

I've also picked up a book from the library called "The 101 Best Aquarium Plants" it seems quite good, shows the plant and all the info about it and how to keep it in the tank.

Once I've got the lighting sorted I think I'll be just about rady to order my stuff :icon_smil

Thanks again guys


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

The three bulb fixture would be good of you ran only the two whites. You will need 6500k or 10000k bulbs, or one of each. This is a common set up.


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## AirstoND (Jun 17, 2011)

Definitely get a a long and low tank (<12in depth) if your going the plant carpet route.


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

Hey guys, thanks for all the help and advice.

I'm visting my dad this weekend and it turns out he has my old aquarium which is 24"x12"x12" so I'm just going to start with that. 

For the external filter I'm thinking of going with the fluval 206 as this will pump as this will pump over 10 times the volume of my tank per hour. Has anyone used/have this filter and is it any good? Don't want to sink my money into it and find there is something better for a similar price.

I'm going to use Eco-Complete for the substrate, lighting will be the 14W unit I mentioned in a previous post, I've got an API Master testing kit on my list too.

Should I get some kind of cover to put over the tank as well?

Once again thanks for the help! It's really appreciated.

Cheers
Alex.


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

Good tank size. Good light choice. Good substrate choice. I can't say anything about the fluval. However, I have an aquatop cf300 on a comparable tank and love it. Great value and great performance. 

As for a top, only use it of you have to. I use then because of cats. Otherwise I wouldn't. It's a personal choice, however.


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

Hey guys,

So I took delivery of my first bit of equipment today, the lighting unit. Its a Boyu STS 14Wx3, it's got two T5s @ 6400K and a blue "moon light" bulb (will never actually use it but was struggling to find a 14Wx2 lighting unit). Do you think the two white lights will be ok or should I look at changing them to 6500K bulbs?

I picked up a nice bit of monapi wood and a 3Kg bag of sea rock from Dobbies Garden centre yesterday. I was having trouble getting the wood to sink but after weighing it down in almost boiling water and leaving it to soak over night it sank :biggrin: 
Also gave the rock a good scrub to get the dust and loose bits off. Got the wood soaking in a buck of water that I've treated with dechlorinator to hopefully neutralise the chlorine that may of soaked into it over night.

I'll hopefully be taking delivery of some more bits tomorrow. Once everything is here I'll be ordering my plants. I'm thinking of java fern, java moss and jungle val to start with. I've heard it's best to plant heavy from the start so will probably order quite a lot of those plants.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't think the bulbs will need to be changed, I'd be more concerned with the low light intensity. An effective low tech intensity would probably be closer to 14w x 6 bulbs considering the size, and especially the depth of your tank. I'm going to assume the T5's you have are NO and not HO at 14watts, but even if they were HO it would not be enough.


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

Looking at the graphs in the lighting thread and with doing some calculations my light will be approx 12 inches from the substrate so I guesstimate I'll be just below the medium light range. I maybe completely wrong though. There's only one way to find out really and that's to set it up an see how things go.



exv152 said:


> I don't think the bulbs will need to be changed, I'd be more concerned with the low light intensity. An effective low tech intensity would probably be closer to 14w x 6 bulbs considering the size, and especially the depth of your tank. I'm going to assume the T5's you have are NO and not HO at 14watts, but even if they were HO it would not be enough.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Alex84 said:


> Looking at the graphs in the lighting thread and with doing some calculations my light will be approx 12 inches from the substrate so I guesstimate I'll be just below the medium light range. I maybe completely wrong though. There's only one way to find out really and that's to set it up an see how things go.


I think you've miscalculated the lighting. The tank you've linked in your earlier post is 40" x 18.8" x 24.25". So I'm not sure what you mean when you say the lights will be 12 inches from the substrate if the height of the tank is 24.25 inches.


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

ah right there's been a change of tank i mentioned in an earlier post.



> I'm visting my dad this weekend and it turns out he has my old aquarium which is 24"x12"x12" so I'm just going to start with that.





exv152 said:


> I think you've miscalculated the lighting. The tank you've linked in your earlier post is 40" x 18.8" x 24.25". So I'm not sure what you mean when you say the lights will be 12 inches from the substrate if the height of the tank is 24.25 inches.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

I know its a matter of difference in countries but I had a chuckle when I read that "Oh and the only half decent pet shop for me is pets at home just over 15 miles from me so I'll prob be ordering most of my stuff online." In most areas in the states people wouldn't think twice about driving 15-30 miles. My commute every day is over 15 miles. Sometimes I wish things were more compact and closer here, but other times I appreciate the openness. Sorry to sidetrack the thread there. 

That is a 15 gallon tank. You could easily light that tank with Compact Flourescent lightbulbs mounted in lamps like, clamp desk lamps or work lamps. Something like the FL-300 would be perfect. http://www.baycoproducts.com/consumer/incandescents.html

As far as bulbs go you could do two, 13 or 15 watt 6500K CFL bulbs. that would give you low light perfect for easy to maintain plants that you mentioned. My 15 gallon office tank journal in my sig. shows how I used clamp desk clamps to light the tank.


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

If there was a proper aquarium shop that sold decent equipment I'd happily travel 15 to 30 miles it's just the pets at home has a very poor selection of equipment and the fish and plant tanks aren't kept in very good condition. it's also crazy expensive. An API master test kit from pets at home is £33 and I can get it online and delivered for almost half that.



kamikazi said:


> I know its a matter of difference in countries but I had a chuckle when I read that "Oh and the only half decent pet shop for me is pets at home just over 15 miles from me so I'll prob be ordering most of my stuff online." In most areas in the states people wouldn't think twice about driving 15-30 miles. My commute every day is over 15 miles. Sometimes I wish things were more compact and closer here, but other times I appreciate the openness. Sorry to sidetrack the thread there.
> 
> That is a 15 gallon tank. You could easily light that tank with Compact Flourescent lightbulbs mounted in lamps like, clamp desk lamps or work lamps. Something like the FL-300 would be perfect. http://www.baycoproducts.com/consumer/incandescents.html
> 
> As far as bulbs go you could do two, 13 or 15 watt 6500K CFL bulbs. that would give you low light perfect for easy to maintain plants that you mentioned. My 15 gallon office tank journal in my sig. shows how I used clamp desk clamps to light the tank.


Anyways here's a wee pic of my old tank with my new lighting on it.










Hopefully the stand will arrive tomorrow with the rest of my equipment. It will be located in the space between the unit and wall in the background of the picture. I prefer the lighting on it now compared to the old way it was set up (hood with a fluorescent light in it).


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

looks good so far. the aquaria addiction starts with tanks like this. i got started with a 10 gallon


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Ah, I see you’ve changed tanks. The lighting is just fine. With two 14w bulbs you’re looking at about 1.5wpg, and with three it’s about 2.2wpg (US gal). I'd just go with the 2 bulbs for now and fertilize once a week with something like seachem flourish comprehensive, and keep water changes to a minimum. That way you don't disturb the co2 levels too much and you won't get much algae. You should read this article for low tech setups, it's loosely based on Tom Barr's low tech method but I've used it with great success on a 125 gal setup.http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/planted-aquarium/low-tech-planted-tank-guide/


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

exv152 said:


> Ah, I see you’ve changed tanks. The lighting is just fine. With two 14w bulbs you’re looking at about 1.5wpg, and with three it’s about 2.2wpg (US gal). I'd just go with the 2 bulbs for now and fertilize once a week with something like seachem flourish comprehensive, and keep water changes to a minimum. That way you don't disturb the co2 levels too much and you won't get much algae. You should read this article for low tech setups, it's loosely based on Tom Barr's low tech method but I've used it with great success on a 125 gal setup.http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/planted-aquarium/low-tech-planted-tank-guide/



What an annoying past couple of days! Our internet went down on Wednesday later morning/early afternoon and came back on sometime early this morning, so it's almost been 3 days with out it.

Thanks for the advice and link exv152. I'll have a read through that later on today.

Anyways I've got the tank a little more set up, just waiting for the plants to arrive. Was expecting them yesterday but they've still not been sent :icon_conf

Here's a picture of it so far. I had to get a little creative with the intake for the fluval 206 as the clear piping is far too long to fit my tank. I took the intake off the clear pipe and managed to fit it onto the black piping. I was going to cut the clear pipe but decided not too as all the piping should be long enough to fit a bigger tank if I ever upgrade. Everything seems to be running fine.









I've used one 20lb/9kg bag of Eco-Complete and that's given me approx 2inches of substrate, I've still go a bag left over. The heater is a fluval 150W, filter is a fluval 206, the lighting is Boyu STS 3x14W and it's sitting on a Juwel Rekord 60 with the cabinet door.

The plants I'm waiting for are some Java fern, jungle val and some Java moss.

I'm still trying to decide on fish but I'm pretty sure I'll get some neon tetra and some oto. Not sure what else I'll get just yet but I've plenty of time to figure that out before the tank has cycled.

Cheers 
Alex.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Looks good Alex, a word of caution with those stones - you may find they increase the pH considerably.


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

exv152 said:


> Looks good Alex, a word of caution with those stones - you may find they increase the pH considerably.


Thanks for that wee tip there. I just checked the pH and the High range pH with my API master test kit. The blue I got was a stronger blue than the 7.6pH on the API colour chart and the high range pH colour was right at the 7.4pH light brown colour. So I'm guessing it's at a pH of around 7.4?

Cheers
Alex


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## mommabear1007 (Nov 8, 2011)

put vaseline on the gasket of your fluval!! it will tear and crack and then your filter will leak. also when you rinse out your media wipe the gunk off the gasket and reapply the vaseline. need to keep it clean to prevent leaks too. 

welcome and good luck!


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## Alex84 (Jul 12, 2012)

My plants arrived this morning and are now planted in. I decided to add the other bag of Eco-Complete to make the substrate depth now approx 3 inches.










Here's a wee pick of the plants in. I've tied the Java fern to the wood with some black cotton thread and used the same for tying the Java moss to the rocks. The Jungle Val (vallisneria spiralis) at the back was a bit tricky to get planted as it kept popping back up but hopefully they're in just enough until the roots can make a good foot hold. Initially I had planted them in too deeply so had to replant them but it now looks better than it did the first time! 

How long approximately will it take the plants to become rooted well and have a strong hold? I should be getting fish in about 3 to 4 weeks once the tank has cycled and don't want the plants to be up rooted and pulled from the wood/rocks buy the fish.

I've also used this fish stocking guide that I saw another member using and this is what I'm thinking of getting fish wise.










How accurate do you think that guide is to follow with stocking an aquarium? I've heard about the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule but that also depends on the general over all size of the fish but 27 fish/shrimp seems like a bit too much for my tank? 

The fish I've chosen so far is just a rough first list and will most likely change.

Cheers
Alex


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