# All Inclusive Plant Fert for Low-tech tank



## brmatt376 (Sep 18, 2017)

I am looking for recommendations on a less expensive all inclusive (macro and micro) fertilizers for my 20g high planted tank, with all low light plants and eco-complete substrate. I have been dosing liquid ferts: potassium, excel (liquid CO2), nitrogen, and aquavitro envy. I have not had success keeping plants healthy so far.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Look at NiloCG's Thrive or DIY EI kit. They are very simple to use and have everything you need.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

I replyed to your earlier thread today:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/100-low-tech-forum/1197634-20g-high-low-light-plants-not-doing-well.html

My reply was based on dry fertilizers. For a Liqiuid Nilocg.com has a micro liquid and macro liquid fertilzier:

Liquid NPK+M 500ml | Premium Liquid Fertilizer | NilocG Aquatics

There are very few fertilizers that have macro and micro in the same bottle. Mainly this is because fungus and bacteria can grow in complete liquid fertilizers. By keeping the micros and macros seperate you avoid that.

Also looking at your other thread picture you look to be short on magnesium and calcium. For that I would recommend a GH booster Seachem Equilibrium:

https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116044301-Equilibrium-600gram/dp/B0006JLVX0

Add enough to boost your water GH by 2 degrees. This is a a dry sulfate GH booster. Most other GH boosters on the market are Chloride based. I think in your case you really need the sulfate in Equilibrium. 

Envy is just a vitamin supplement. I wouldn't expect it to help your plants. I would recommend discontinuing it. Liquid carbon is an extremely corrosive material. If you dose it correctly it will help your plants. But if dosed incorrectly it can kill everything in the tank. However there are some plants that will be harmed by liquid carbon even if you dose it correctly. One of those plants is Anacaris which you have in your aquarium. I would recommend discontinuing liquid carbon and instead increasing surface turbulence of the water to increase Aeration. You can do this by raising your filter outlet tube to the surface or just above the surface of the water. That would supply you with enough CO2 from the air for a low light tank.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Surf said:


> There are very few fertilizers that have macro and micro in the same bottle. Mainly this is because fungus and bacteria can grow in complete liquid fertilizers. By keeping the micros and macros seperate you avoid that.
> 
> Envy is just a vitamin supplement. I wouldn't expect it to help your plants.


Where are you getting the fungus/bacteria thing from? I'd love to see data to back that up. The main reason I understood was due to chelating agents used that would break down when mixed and precipitate.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Where are you getting the fungus/bacteria thing from? I'd love to see data to back that up. The main reason I understood was due to chelating agents used that would break down when mixed and precipitate.


sachem flourish comprehensive. 3 months after opening it they recommend keeping it refrigerated. i didn't notice that on the first bottle and eventually fungus started to grow on top of the surface of the fertilizer in the bottle. It has a lot of different nutrients in it but many of the macros are not sufficient to consistently get good results with very soft water. Which is why I didn't recommend it. 

I also have a leftover bottle of flourish trace (micros only). I have had it for over a year and without refrigeration nothing is growing in it.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Surf said:


> sachem flourish comprehensive. 3 months after opening it they recommend keeping it refrigerated. i didn't notice that on the first bottle and eventually fungus started to grow on top of the surface of the fertilizer in the bottle. It has a lot of different nutrients in it but many of the macros are not sufficient to consistently get good results with very soft water. Which is why I didn't recommend it.
> 
> I also have a leftover bottle of flourish trace (micros only). I have had it for over a year and without refrigeration nothing is growing in it.


Fungus growth in micros is common which is why they recommend mixing some Excel into the solution or refrigerating it. Flourish Comp uses ferrous gluconate which is stabilized differently than DTPA, and they use enzymes and whatever other black magic those geniuses use to inhibit fungus/mold growth.

The main reason for not mixing micros and macros, as far as I know, is to prevent precipitation and reduced effectiveness of the fertilizers.

I'll tag @nilocg to see if Colin might have a short, sweet explanation of how Thrive effectively mixes both without issues (without giving up any trade secrets )

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Have had good success with macro/micro package from Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - Home
Has what plant's need judging from my observations/growth with the exception that it does not contain Phosphates which can be gleaned from feeding the fishes twice a day.
Can order GH booster or Seachems equilibrium for softer water.
Fertilzer comes in dry form, and I add measured spoon full for my size tank once a week .


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Surf said:


> I replyed to your earlier thread today:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/100-low-tech-forum/1197634-20g-high-low-light-plants-not-doing-well.html
> 
> ...


Hi Surf, the reason most suggest keeping micros and macros separate really have nothing to do with fungus/mold issues. It has everything to do with certain nutrients reacting with each other causing insoluble precipitates. I actually have more issues with mold in my micro only bottles. Let me know if you have any other questions. 

Thanks
Colin


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## slipfinger (Jun 8, 2016)

Surf said:


> sachem flourish comprehensive. 3 months after opening it they recommend keeping it refrigerated. i didn't notice that on the first bottle and eventually fungus started to grow on top of the surface of the fertilizer in the bottle. It has a lot of different nutrients in it but many of the macros are not sufficient to consistently get good results with very soft water. Which is why I didn't recommend it.
> 
> I also have a leftover bottle of flourish trace (micros only). I have had it for over a year and without refrigeration nothing is growing in it.


Flourish Comprehensive should not even be considered as an all in one fertilizer and I don't think it is marketed that way. For low tech it 'may' have enough of some micro nutrients, but it was designed to be supplemented with NPK and Fe.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

slipfinger said:


> Flourish Comprehensive should not even be considered as an all in one fertilizer and I don't think it is marketed that way. For low tech it 'may' have enough of some micro nutrients, but it was designed to be supplemented with NPK and Fe.


I agree fully with your first point, but regarding how its marketed. First off they call it Comprehensive and market it as "a comprehensive plant supplement for the natural freshwater aquarium", later on they do say it should be used along with their macro line. I think its rather misleading to many who arent especially knowledgeable, especially considering it does technically contain macros as well(even if they are at levels so low they are functionally insignificant).


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

The term Comprehensive is misleading within the planted tank communities. This product has been marketing to LFS far before the product was to be used in high-light plant dominated setups. LFS customers generally have "fish tanks with some plants" not "planted tanks with some fish" so in that regard it might fill in the missing ferts needed since the macros are provided by fish and food. 

On the forum and in other planted tank communities that is simply not the case.


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## slipfinger (Jun 8, 2016)

@nilocg, very valid point!

Comprehensive is a very misleading name. Maybe that's why I read so many post where people are complaining about poor plant growth, come to find out they are dosing Flourish Comp and Excel. So many people think excel is a nutrient. I digress.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> The term Comprehensive is misleading within the planted tank communities. This product has been marketing to LFS far before the product was to be used in high-light plant dominated setups. LFS customers generally have "fish tanks with some plants" not "planted tanks with some fish" so in that regard it might fill in the missing ferts needed since the macros are provided by fish and food.
> 
> On the forum and in other planted tank communities that is simply not the case.


The funny thing is I dont even think its good in those tanks. Those could possibly get everything from fish waste other than potassium and iron. Seachem comp only adds around 0.07ppm potassium and iron. Root Zone would be a better product for these people.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

nilocg said:


> The funny thing is I dont even think its good in those tanks. Those could possibly get everything from fish waste other than potassium and iron. Seachem comp only adds around 0.07ppm potassium and iron. Root Zone would be a better product for these people.


Your probably right, just stating what it was going after when the product came to market. Marketing, distribution is big here.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> Your probably right, just stating what it was going after when the product came to market. Marketing, distribution is big here.


I agree with you. Their marketing is pretty amazing for such a niche market.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

nilocg said:


> I agree with you. Their marketing is pretty amazing for such a niche market.


I guess they can afford to devote $ to it since they have some very successful products in salt, substrate and filter media. 

With that being said I didn't even realize they make HOB filters. I can't account for how good they are, but the design includes a built in surface skimmer and a clip for an in tank heater.


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## StevieD (Jun 17, 2017)

After keeping fish and water in glass boxes for nearly 50 years, breeding some fish and failing miserably on others I took the plunge about 4 months ago to have a go at a planted tank. My LFS recommended Thrive, I do not know how this stuff works in so minimal amounts, but in the words of Anakin Skywalker "it's working it's working!" I mean come on, 5 drops a week after a water change???

My tank is just shy of a 50 gallon tank and it is doing so much better than I could ever have expected. Some of the plants I have paid for and some came as gifts. The main thing is to take pictures early on and check back on them periodically. You will be able to see your progress as your tank develops.

Good luck and keep us posted


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## brmatt376 (Sep 18, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am looking into dry microferts and adding a few more fish sense it seems like that would be beneficial for a low-tech tank. Fingers crossed. I will keep ya'll updated!!


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

brmatt376 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies! I am looking into dry microferts and adding a few more fish sense it seems like that would be beneficial for a low-tech tank. Fingers crossed. I will keep ya'll updated!!


I think adding more fish is always cool, but if its in an attempt to benefit plants from the added waste, I think its a mistake. I would suggest dosing macros as well to ensure you have enough.


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## brmatt376 (Sep 18, 2017)

Thanks for the reply. I showed some pictures to the guys at my local LFS and they felt like it was most likely the light. I added the flourish comprehensive (I know controversial but i figured it'd be decent for the micros) and am waiting for them to get some phosphate in (I already have the nitrogen and potassium). After these bottles I am going to switch to dry ferts or something like thrive. Also I am going to stop dosing the excel as frequently after learning about the negative effects it can have.

I have since posted in the light section about new light suggestions.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

What light do you currently have?


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## brmatt376 (Sep 18, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> What light do you currently have?


I currently have a nicrew LED (cheap LED) and a 15Watt Tropic Sun T8.


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