# Seachem’s Equillibrium or GH booster



## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Do you guys all add Seachem’s Equillibrium or a GH booster once a week regardless of your tap water parameters?

To my understanding GH booster is not needed if your water is hard, but others have said you should dose anyways (Mixed opinions here). It seems my Neons kind of get affected by the Hardness as it is so I dont want them to take a hit on my Plant obsession.

But as of lately I've had a few signs of deficiencies and don't understand where they could be coming from if I'm dosing EI :help:.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Mr. Fish,

Most of the GH Booster products add magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca), and Potassium (K) to my water; Seachem's Equilibrium adds those three plus some extra micronutrients. Plants need Mg, Ca, and K for proper growth.

'Hard Water' can be caused by a lot of different minerals however high calcium carbonate (CaCo3) levels are the typical cause. High CaCO3 should provide adequate Ca but it does not mean that you have adequate Mg levels.

If you are doing regular water changes adding a 1-1/2 teaspoons of GH Booster or Equilibrium per 10 gallons of water will only increase the overall hardness of your water 1.0 dGH and should provide adequate Mg and Ca healthy plant growth in a moderately planted aquarium. I have soft water here in Seattle and add Equilibrium on a weekly basis or I have deficiencies occur.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Sup Roy?

So do you recomend me dosing just MG or running with a GH booster even though my water is hard as it is?

These are my levels right now:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 40
Nitrite: 0
GH: 300
Chlorine: 0
KH: 180
PH: 6.5 - 6.8


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Wow Mr. Fish a 16.8 hardness....I am impressed! You could try just adding some Epsom Salt (MgSO4) and see if the deficiency subsides. I would dose at the same 1-1/2 tsp per 10 gallon rate and see what happens. The effect on the hardness will be about the same.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Why thank you :icon_lol:

Although i'm not that proud of it 

Epsom salt eh? I'm assuming this does not harm the fish at all?

How often should I dose?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Epsom Salt is available at pharmacies and grocery stores. It is typically one of the ingredients used in the GH Boosters we were discussing. Once after each 50% water change.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Epsom Salt is available at pharmacies and grocery stores. It is typically one of the ingredients used in the GH Boosters we were discussing. Once after each 50% water change.


Yea i know where to find it, same stuff I get for my athletes foot :hihi:

Does it take awhile to dissolve? Should I dissolve in some tank water the night before?

1tsp or 1/2 tsp per 10 gal?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Mr. Fish,

MgSO4 dissolves very easily, usually within 10 minutes, and does not turn the water milky like a lot of the calcium additives do; there is no need to dissolve it in water the night before. I would start with one and one half teaspoons per 10 gallons and see how your plants respond. Remember that the old leaves that are showing deficiency problems typically will not change; only the new growth will show improvement.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Sounds good, i'll try that out.. and just clip the old leaves off.

Thanks Roy, you always seem to chime in on my threads.


So when these guys sell their dry ferts, all MgSO4 is a bag of epsom salt?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

MgSO4 = Epsom Salt


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Yes, just Epsom salt. Cheaper to get this one at the local stores. 

With the GH so high, I am not sure the deficiency is magnesium. 
Can you get a report from the water company about what is in the water? Mine actually shows the average and the range, in mg/l (same as ppm) for Calcium and Magnesium, separately. 

What sort of deficiency symptoms are the plants showing?


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Diana said:


> Yes, just Epsom salt. Cheaper to get this one at the local stores.
> 
> With the GH so high, I am not sure the deficiency is magnesium.
> Can you get a report from the water company about what is in the water? Mine actually shows the average and the range, in mg/l (same as ppm) for Calcium and Magnesium, separately.
> ...


I'm going to call the water company tommro actually.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

This is a 10 gal tank

I run a 20" PC 40w Dual Light fixture with 2 1/2 inch legs standing above the tank.

Reason it looks a little dark right there is the overshade of my Riccia thats floating at the top.

Just to give you an idea.. Don't judge the sloppy plant placements they are not organized well as most of these were just grow out tests plants using sand substrate


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Overall, looks sort of pale, more yellow than it should, and the red plants are not very red. Am I seeing it right? 
Then the close-ups are leaves that are supposed to be flat, but they are rolled. Is that right? 

The picture with the Neon: Is that Sunset Hygro? The veins are supposed to be pale? Or some other plant, and pale veins are another deficiency showing up?


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Diana said:


> Overall, looks sort of pale, more yellow than it should, and the red plants are not very red. Am I seeing it right?
> Then the close-ups are leaves that are supposed to be flat, but they are rolled. Is that right?
> 
> The picture with the Neon: Is that Sunset Hygro? The veins are supposed to be pale? Or some other plant, and pale veins are another deficiency showing up?


Yes it does look pale. And the plants dont bring out the true red as they should. And yes the close ups are suppose to be flat round leaves but are rolled.

The picture with the neon and the curled up leaf, that is suppose to be Ludwigia red.

So from what you see, and taking the fact that i'm dosing EI, Co2 Injected plus additional Iron and Excel what do you think the issue is?

Also they say high light and High nitrate brings out the red, this is obviously false. I would like to bring out the red in my plants but not sure what else to do.


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## Aquaticfan (Oct 30, 2011)

Get a full report and TDS from your water company. 

Super hard water with high GH and high KH along with higher amounts of TDS will cause you several issues just like your having........ Ask me how I found out........

last year My wife and I had our tanks set up and going. We were on a fresh water well. The TDS was ultra high. GH up past 17 to 19. KH at 18 to 20. It was so harsh stiking my arms in it dried my skin out horribly. Then we moved into town. Got on the city water supply. It comes from a lake. The lake is fed by a Spring at the bottom. They do water treatment with standard filtration and Chloramine. BUT the water has Medium amounts of TDS. With KH from 5 to 6 and a GH of under 10. I had plants that with high light, Co2, EI and more that would just die and melt in a week to two weeks time in the old hard water. The reds of my plants were weak as could be. In fact alot of plants that showed up very red would lose color and then melt. Since changing ONLY our water supply its night and day difference. Plants grow with ease, Reds are reds yellows yellow. orange and so on...... Personally in my opinion. looking at your tank and plants Id say possible you have to much in the water creating you issues. Adding something like Mg may only make it worse. 

I have a suggestion.... If you have somewhere local to you that sells RO/DI reasonable (fish store or friend or other) you could do a 50/50 mix of RO/DI and your tap for a couple weeks. It would reduce the amount of TDS and hardness to a happy level. 

I seriously wasnt able to get plants like R Indica, Repens, R Macrandra and several others. Some that should grow real easy. I beat my head against a wall trying to figure it out. So I did a bunch of experiments. And low and behold it worked. Now Ive got NO issues growing anything. As well as the colors in my plants just stand out better now.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks for sharing ur story Aquatic fan,

I think you may just be right. But the only way of being sure is to get the TDS from our supply. 

Originally that was the plan, mixing RO with tap. Now if I did mix half and half do you think I should dose a GH booster or just leave the RO as is to shorten up what could be too much?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Mr. Fish,

What ferts are you using and what are your dosing levels?

Are you running CO2; I think I see a CO2 line in your picture?


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

im just gonna inject here that curling leaves and pale colors together is more of a c02 issue. plants need very little magnesium and ur light looks decently bright

i see the froth of bubbles at the surface from using a diffuser.

paleness can also be related strickly to magnesium or iron deficiency as plants cannot use iron without mg.
but that doesnt explain curling leaves which rarely happens if there is a small amount of calcium in the water

plants can use NO nutrients without c02. low levels of c02 means poor use of nutrients


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi Roy,

I'm dosing NPK, CSM+b, seachem iron and excel.

The levels I dose are based off the EI method designed for 10-20 gal.

Yes, I inject Co2 via 5lb tank thru a glass diffuser which circulates pretty well by my lily pipes current.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> im just gonna inject here that curling leaves and pale colors together is more of a c02 issue. plants need very little magnesium and ur light looks decently bright
> 
> i see the froth of bubbles at the surface from using a diffuser.
> 
> ...


Hi HD,

I can see where co2 could cause that issue but doesn't explain why my PH would be at adequate co2 levels. The bubbles you see at the surface is the co2 that built up as I shut my filter off for cleaning. For the most part it gets circulated very well as I was explaining to Roy via my lily pipes position and current.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

PH is irrelevant when c02 is involved

if ur ph is 8.0 with 3 ppm c02 and it drops to 7.0 after u've been injecting c02 then u have roughly 30ppm
if ur ph is 8.0 with 0 ppm dissolved c02 then a 1.0 ph drop to 7.0 would mean you have 10 ppm c02. both are 1.0 drop in ph but the c02 levels present are totally different

c02 levels are relative to how much is in the water before you inject when relating to ph drop. if you are looking at the KH/PH relationship chart. STOP. it is as accurate as you looking at ur tank and guessing how much is in there


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## Aquaticfan (Oct 30, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> PH is irrelevant when c02 is involved
> 
> if ur ph is 8.0 with 3 ppm c02 and it drops to 7.0 after u've been injecting c02 then u have roughly 30ppm
> if ur ph is 8.0 with 0 ppm dissolved c02 then a 1.0 ph drop to 7.0 would mean you have 10 ppm c02. both are 1.0 drop in ph but the c02 levels present are totally different
> ...




This be true. 

Really for hobbyists It's hard to impossible to get a fully accurate measurement of co2 without expensive lab stuff. But the best you can ever do is default to your livestock if you have some. 

Blazingwolf is correct that these can be signs of co2 issues. 

But in my honest opinion if your water is as hard as it is you may have a compound issue with the hard water as well as co2. I'm also not sure what the relationship of super hard water is and plants and their ability to use co2 and nutrients. I'd say solve one issue at a time elimination. 

For me i know what my results were when I switched water from super hard heavy tds to a mid soft/hard supply. It's like night and day difference. I had the same co2 levels then as I do now. 

Id bet half RO with half tap in your case would be enough. But you should know more once you get the tds report.

Have you also thought about different methods of adding and mixing the co2 into your tank for better mix and dissolve?


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> PH is irrelevant when c02 is involved
> 
> if ur ph is 8.0 with 3 ppm c02 and it drops to 7.0 after u've been injecting c02 then u have roughly 30ppm
> if ur ph is 8.0 with 0 ppm dissolved c02 then a 1.0 ph drop to 7.0 would mean you have 10 ppm c02. both are 1.0 drop in ph but the c02 levels present are totally different
> ...


Ok I can see your point here and by all means I don't base my co2 ppm of Ph readings. I was just simply stating that without co2 my Ph is always alot higher.

I actually use an indicator to get an idea of my co2 injection. Using 4dkh water and indicator solution. Which always reads green. I'm currently at 3 bps and co2 hardly gets a chance to hit the surface. With that in mind I have seen people with a less effective way of injecting co2 and notice they all get great results which makes me believe this is tap water issues. Also why can't I bring out the reds in my plants? Everything is there to bring them out?


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

c02.. and light are the most common factors involving red
not enough c02. no red

green drop checker doesn't mean u have enough. mine stays yellow wit c02 on? sometimes when i adjust my light i do't have enough, yellow is supposed to mean dead fish according to what we've all been told

edit: without c02 plants cannot use other nutrients.. we know u are injecting some. but if the plants dont have enough c02 for the light you are giving them, they will not be able to utilize nutrients properly. this is usually the determining factor of red plants


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

So from what I understand you're saying co2 indicators are useless and so are bubble counters?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Mr. Fish,

Occasionally I get 'leaf curl' on my new growth and adding the Equilibrium typically resolves the problem because a lack of magnesium can cause that effect. 

I too use CSM+B but occasionally had new leaves develop 'leaf curl/stunted/deformed leaves' because it lacks some of the more minor trace elements. I still use CSM+B but I supplement it by using Seachem Flourish Comprehensive instead of CSM+B once or twice a week.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Mr. Fish said:


> So from what I understand you're saying co2 indicators are useless and so are bubble counters?


MOSTLY

they are good tell help give you a reference, but the best indicators are your plants. if they are growing healthy with little to no algae. then you have reached adequate c02, if you are dosing non limiting ferts such as EI

using GH booster in conjunction with your dosing schedule prevents the need for other trace mixes while dosing csm + b
that is why it is reccommended under the dosing regimens


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

If you're dosing full EI then I still think it's CO2 related since you should be supplying a nonlimiting amount of nutrients, although I can't discount Aquaticfan's idea since I have no experience with hard water, we have the soft stuff here.

In my stem growing days, I dosed full EI and P. stellatus was my CO2 indicator, not my dropchecker or pH. When CO2 was good, it was a vibrant red with nice, straight, well formed leaves and it grew 5-6 inches a week and that was with 2x54 T5HO over a 75. When CO2 wasn't so good it would be the first plant to head south. The first sign it would give me was twisted, curly leaves. The I knew something was up and it was usually something inhibiting good flow in the tank and that something was usually an overgrown tank. So I learned I needed to stay on top of CO2 in the tank by keeping the tank trimmed and filters clean. So my experience with twisted leaves was CO2 related which is why I keep going back to it .

Good CO2:









Bad CO2. See how twisted and frail the plants were, especially the leaves, on the left side while the plants on the right don't look as bad. I didn't attend to flow issues for a couple of weeks and over that time I lost most of the plant until I noticed what was going on.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

*Tds report in*

*Ok I got the Pomona,CA TDS report.*

Not exactly sure how to pinpoint these numbers properly so I'll post it up and let you guys help me figure this thing out for me.

Mind you they haven't ran any testing since 2010... smh


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

It looks like calcium is decent. Carbonates appear to be possibly high but it's hard to read that report. It looks like u have multiple sources for water.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> It looks like calcium is decent. Carbonates appear to be possibly high but it's hard to read that report. It looks like u have multiple sources for water.


It is pretty hard to read

Here let me do a little Photoshoping so you can read better. :icon_smil


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

*Photoshopped tds report, hope this helps!*

Hope this helps


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Eh not so bad now. Kh average is about 7 between sources. Gh is about 3. Not super hard water. Plants will grow fine.


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## Aquaticfan (Oct 30, 2011)

The GH and KH are good. Just trying to sort all the other garbage and see if there is something there that could be low or high.. Reads like a bad road map having 3 different sources. 

But the hardness isnt bad. Actually pretty good.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> Eh not so bad now. Kh average is about 7 between sources. Gh is about 3. Not super hard water. Plants will grow fine.


With reading of 7 dKH and 3 dGH your water is almost as soft as mine (<1.0 dKH and 4.0 dGH). It is possible that you are experiencing the same lack of calcium and magnesium I did.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> With reading of 7 dKH and 3 dGH your water is almost as soft as mine (<1.0 dKH and 4.0 dGH). It is possible that you are experiencing the same lack of calcium and magnesium I did.


the average calcium there is 45 ppm. its not likely that there is a calcium deficiency unless he growth demand is very high
magnesium is still plausible as we dont know the composition there

EITHER WAY adding gh booster to your routine won't hurt anything. that's for sure

just not sure if u need it yet.. won't hurt to add though at this point

if when u add it u see positive growth. GREAT but wait two or 3 weeks and see if a new deficiency forms. if all the fertilizer bases are covered then c02 demand can possibly go up depending on light needs and you will start to see the same symptoms and alae show up
this is where many believe ferts to cause algae


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

So I guess these Dip testing sticks are false... they read my water is super hard which I dont understand how they could be that off, so you guys are saying my water is soft? 

Whats a good accurate reader?

I'm thinking i'm just gonna start going with the GH booster then.



HD Blazingwolf said:


> this is where many believe ferts to cause algae


Tom Barr swears by this being false. Which a lot to believe it's actually true. I haven't done enough tests to go against the grain here so I'll stay out of that one.

But at the same time what hes saying does make sense, if your plants have everything they need to grow they will grow great and algae shouldn't hurt you. If you look up the cause of algae all of them are caused by Co2 and lighting, not one of them say too much Kno3 its always the opposite not enough.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

I've done the tests and inadvertently still do today when I make mistakes with c02.. I used to think frets caused algae but I know now that is not true.. Dip tests are junk. I'll send u my email. I wouldn't mind getting a better quality shot of the report


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> I've done the tests and inadvertently still do today when I make mistakes with c02.. I used to think frets caused algae but I know now that is not true.. Dip tests are junk. I'll send u my email. I wouldn't mind getting a better quality shot of the report


Just emailed you the PDF file copy I got from our water supply, hope that helps.
Check it out and feedback here if you can.

Dip tests are junk, I was going to get the API master test kit but I noticed it lacks a lot of important tests we need for Planted tanks.

Anyone know of a good solid accurate testing kit they could recommend me?


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Btw a buddy of mine in Scape told me the opposite of what you guys are saying here, that my water is not soft but slightly-moderately hard?



jcwillis said:


> Almost all water delivered to US homes is closer to being on the hard side, and it helps to somewhat protect the pipes. Pomona's CaCO3 of 255 falls right on the slightly hard to moderately hard area.
> 
> *Hardness Scale*
> TDS(ppm) Hardness
> ...


Not sure why I'm getting two different answers here but that makes all the difference lol


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

looking a it through email changed the entire perspective. i could tell the difference between range, and actual read values

ur kh is on average 18-22 degrees. that's pretty hard in terms of plants
ur calcium is perfect and magnesium slightly low

TDS has little to do with hardness. but yes ur cac03 is pretty rockin


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