# CRS vs. RCS



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

Hello everyone!
I am new to this forum, and decided to sign-up because I am having extreme difficulties with this topic. I have decided a while ago that my passion lies in breeding and selling shrimp. The problem is that I cannot choose between the expensive CRS, or the prolific RCS. I know a lot about both, and yet I am still at an impass. I am also having difficulties finding the required materials to begin this amazing hobby/passion. I know what I need to have in order to begin, but some things are not only difficult to find at petshops and online, but I am sure I am missing somethings as well. I am hoping to purchase a 10-20 gallon tank. How many shrimp can live in both? What else do I need besides the tank? (I have a list, but want to check to see that I have everything). Where can I purchase supplies? I have checked Petco with no avail, and the only LFS around here IS Petco! Please help me with the following:

Choosing between CRS and RCS, I do not want a mix, and I know a lot of information about both. A large question to take into thought is how well I can profit from both. CRS sell for more, but RCS will breed more often...
Materials/Equipment/Plants needed to start breeding. The 10-20 gallon tank is a little large, but I have the extra cash. I know of other things to that I need, but I would prefer to hear what you all think.
Where can I purchase the Materials/Equipment/Plants from? It doesn't have to be the cheapest resource, so long as it is a resource! Petco doesn't sell sponge filters, java moss, etc.
Any advice, comments, etc, that are positive.
Thanks for all of your help and support. I plan on cycling the tank before I begin, how long should the tank cycle?


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Expensive CRS?
They go for like 4 bucks SS pattern here.

Why RCS if you can go PFR or yellow neon or blue velvet instead?

Just wondering! 


Buy here from sellers, cheapest and awesome!


----------



## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

CRS are going to be more profitable because even the lower grades sell for more than RCS. The most you can reasonably expect to get for RCS is about $1 a piece. When you factor in all the costs, time etc. imo RCS wouldn't be very profitable at all. 

On the other hand, if you have no experience keeping shrimp, you are destined to run in to problems that will set you back and make you frustrated to say the least.

I have been keeping various types of dwarf shrimp for just over a year now. Until today I had never had CRS get berried and I am still waiting for my first batch of babies. This is just my experience with shrimp.

If I were looking at keeping shrimp from a business perspective, and taking into consideration, the bottom line of business, breeding shrimp for profit would not be my suggestion. I find that without a true passion for the hobby, you will quickly tire of keeping shrimp. 

I find them fascinating, and the challenge and demand of creating environments for my shrimp to thrive is fullfilling enough. Making my hobby into a business, well I think that would make it very hard work and deplete the enjoyment.

Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using Tapatalk 2


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

How much harder will CRS be to raise, compared to RCS? Any help on equipment?


----------



## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

this is a great thread to read: 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176557
For equipment let's see.

Filter- of some sort, Aquaclear, Eheim Canister, DIY UGF or a simple sponge filter will work. 
Substrate- I like ADA Aquasoil, but there are many, Fluval Stratum, azoo plant grower etc. 
Testing equipment: pH, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, KH, GH and a TDS Meter

Where to buy stuff at: online, amazon, sponsor forums, fellow forum members, pretty much a google search will find you plenty of online stores.


----------



## aznartist34 (Nov 19, 2010)

Looks like you need to do some more reading if you don't know how much harder crs are to keep than rcs. Equipment wise wouldn't be too much different than any planted tank minus the co2. Read up some more on shrimp keeping and breeding and then you will find the answers to most of the general questions you are asking.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

The thread you posted helps a lot! Could someone please list the supplies needed for CRS as well as some online stores that I can purchase from? More difficult than google searching, unfortunately.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

I have done my research, and realize how much more difficult these will be to breed. I have bred RCS in the past with no deaths in a ten gallon.


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Buy as much as you can from seller here at TPT. It's cheaper and they will help you make sure you get what you need. I buy shrimp from Speedie and all other supplies and plants from H4N.

Please read this post by youjettisonme, then ask more questions abuot how to do this:

This thread is caridina heavy, but not specific. What works well for caridinas often works well for neocaridinas. None of these are my ideas of course. With that said...

- If I had just one piece of advice to give, it would be to buy a sponge filter. Biological filtration is paramount in keeping and breeding shrimp, and setting up an air-driven sponge filter is one of the simplest "upgrades" you can make to your shrimp tank. Not only does it promote beneficial bacteria, but the break in water surface also provides oxygenation. 

















- You can never have too much filtration in a shrimp tank. Yes, you can have too much flow. Otherwise, don't be afraid to go overboard. I have a CBS tank that has been going for a few years now that has 2 HOBs and a canister and all for a 10 gallon. It is heavily, heavily planted so this is the only shrimp tank I have that doesn't have a sponge filter. The more filtered your water, the less you have to perform water changes. Also, I never have a death in this tank, ever.










- Use TDS as a way to monitor your water changes. Spend the money and invest now in an accurate TDS meter. It will save you so much hassle, time and money later on if you take this step now. When should you change your water? Every week? Twice a week? Every other week? You don't have to guess if you have an accurate TDS meter at your disposal. Different shrimp require different parameters, but in general, if you're performing small water changes in your caridina tank once the TDS starts to hover above 200 then you're doing fine. 

















TDS is a measure of the combined content of all inorganic and organic substances contained in a liquid. Truly "pure water" has zero total dissolved solids. If you run your tap water through a good enough filter, you will come up with "pure water", and your TDS meter will read zero total dissolved solids, aka filterable residue. This residue is mostly comprised of the most common chemical constituents, calcium, phosphates, nitrates, sodium, potassium and chloride, but it may also contain pesiticides. Chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia and is a widely used drinking water disinfectant in North America, often used as an alternative to chlorine because it is longer lasting and has less of an odor than chlorine. Most of these elements you could do without in a shrimp tank.

Depending on where you live, the TDS of your tap water may be dramatically different than others you encounter on this forum. That's why, for example, some aquarists in San Francisco don't fret tap water much. We receive our water from Hetch Hetchy, and it's "liquid gold" for planted tanks as has been said. However, others aren't so lucky. For shrimp keeping, how much are you willing to risk it?

Keep in mind that everything adds to your TDS. If you dose Prime, the TDS will rise. If you EI dose, you will see high TDS levels. Decaying plant matter, fish waste, etc., they all raise your TDS, and that's why we have water changes. Using a TDS meter to gauge the quality of your water lets you know when it may be a good time for a change.

Water Hardness definitions:

Soft - 0 to 75 parts per million
Moderately Hard - 75 to 150 parts per million
Hard - 150 to 300 parts per million
Very Hard - more than 300 parts per million

- If you're planning to buy and especially breed Taiwans/BKK, do your due diligence and create the right environment for them. Whether your are using multiple, large sponge filters or have created an under gravel filter, make sure that you have plenty of biological filtration for your shrimps. Many/most Taiwan keepers are also dosing beneficial bacteria like Mosura BT-9 and the like. What is the point of buying hundred dollar shrimp and not investing the small amount of time it will take to create a healthy, stable environment? 

















- Plan for the right PH, GH, and KH levels BEFORE you buy and house your new shrimp. If you are keeping CRS, make sure that you bought a soil that keeps PH low so that you don't have to fight and struggle later on. If your tap water is 8.5, you can put it in an Akadama tank and still see 5.9. You can put it in an ADA Amazonia tank and still see 6.5. What you can't do is put it in a Fluval Shrimp Stratum tank and see anything under 7 unless you are going far out of your way after the fact. So, know what shrimp you want to house and build the right kind of environment for them before that big purchase. The substrate examples were only examples. There are a lot of ways to get this right, and even more ways to get it wrong.

















- The most important water quality component for shrimps is stability above everything else. If you follow the stability rule above all others then you will likely end up more successful at keeping and breeding shrimp than your neighbor shrimp-keeper who shows "perfect CRS parameters", but yet somehow still has an unusual amount of casualties. Shrimp like things status quo, and that's a fact. They prefer that status quo over a wild change in parameters even if what they are used to is far less than ideal. I personally know someone who has very successfully bred CRS in 650 TDS water with a GH of 15 and a ph of 5.6 ph. She uses only tap treated with Prime. How successful? She started with 5 CRS and turned them into 70. As of today, her tank has 11 berried CRS. Why is she so successful while others have failed with "perfect" parameters? It's simple. She "keeps it simple stupid" or KISS.

- How should you lower your ph? 

If for whatever reason you did not set up a terrific shrimp environment for your new pets from the outset, or if you have an ok environment but want to make it even better, there are steps you can take. You can, for example, quite easily find a steady supply of uber-clean, zero TDS water via an RO/DI water unit. One of the best/cheapest options out there can be found from purewaterclub.com. This is only one option, and there are many good ones out there. You can reminearlize your water using a shrimp-safe remineralizer like Fluval Mineral or Mosura. All of the shrimp supplement makers sell these now. My advice is to buy yourself a dropper. For example, I drop 18 drops of Fluval Mineral in about 5 gallons of water and use this for water changes and top-offs in a 10 gallon. It keeps my CBS tank right at 5 gh, my goal level. 

















Additionally, you can add items like Peat Moss in a bag in an HOB filter or canister or Indian Almond leaves right in your tank. I weight mine down with plant weights, and the shrimp will graze on them in between meals. Driftwood is also known to release tanins in the water, further lowering ph. Mosura and Benibachi, etc. also make ph down powders now. If I was forced to use something like this, I would buy from them. DO NOT use ph down from Seachem. This will likely kill your shrimp. 

- PH and water changes. Water changes are crucial and necessary. A shrimp tank needs to stay within particular TDS ranges depending on the shrimp, and there are certain precautions you can make to make sure you aren't killing shrimps with each water change.

1. Use RO water. As a shrimp keeper, I could never imagine going back to tap unless I was only raising Neos. I have terrific water here in San Francisco, but I still won't risk it. What comprises that 40 TDS that comes out of my tap? Heck if I know, but I no longer have to care. 

2. Age your water. Keep buckets for your water, be it tap or RO. Age days to a week if possible. Better still, run an airstone in it overnight to off-gas any nasties that may be in your tap water. Additionally, aging your water has also been found by some to lower PH to something manageable without even having to dose additives. 









3. Do small water changes. 15-20% every other day for 3 days is WAY better than a 50% water change. 

4. Make sure that the temperature and ph of your new water is at least comparable to that of your tank water. If your tank water is 6.4 but your tap water is 8, you may have a problem. Invest instead in a safe PH down alternative in order to get your bucket water down to something manageable. Dose the GH remineralizer in the bucket water and not right in the tank if you can help it. 










- Rocks matter. As has been well-reported, Seiryu stones will raise both your ph and your KH. This isn't an ideal rock in a CRS tank. However, OEBT, for example, actually prefer a higher ph and KH so a Seiryu stone can be just find for breeding these types of shrimp. With all rocks, make sure you do a vinegar test on them before putting them in your tank. If you want to be extra careful instead, use Muriatic Acid. I boil any found rocks I use as well. WARNING: Don't over-boil rocks or else they could, theoretically, explode on you. 

Most Taiwan keepers won't put a rock in their tank. Personally, as long as I can identify the rock, I don't see a problem with it. 










- Use Purigen. It's such a simple step to take, and it give you clear water. Purigen is the best filter media out there for shrimps and gets rid of all kinds of harmful elements. Using either a Purigen reactor or just a pre-filter used instead as a post-filter to a canister is an ideal place to put carbon or Purigen. Inside an HOB is also great, anything that provides easy access for swapping out and/or regenerating (Purigen). 










- Cuprisorb. Seachem makes this. You can bag it and throw it in your HOB or canister if you been having mysterious shrimp deaths. Most liquid fert combos come with a little bit of copper. How much is dangerous? Beats me. I don't dose those things in my high-end shrimp tanks. If I did, I would use cuprisorb though for peace of mind. Does your residence use copper pipes? Do those pipes affect your water quality by adding trace elements of copper to your tap? I don't know either. Inquiring minds.

- What is so great about a ________ filter? (HOB, canister, sponge, UGF)

HOB filters. Why? They break the water surface which oxygenates the water so in that sense they are great for shrimp. They are a snap to install. Best of all, one can easily switch out media and/or clean media. It's basically hassle-less. Whether you are adding or removing Purigen, activated carbon, or a bag of peat moss, it doesn't get much easier. What does it lack? A lack of biological filtration and beneficial bacteria. Additionally, it will suck up baby shrimps if you're not careful. That's why you need a stainless steel pre-filter. 










Canisters. What's so great? Nothing supplies as much pure filtration as a canister. Mechanical, biological, chemical, you can do it all and with great efficiency. Further, you can add on to your canister by attaching things like a pre-filter and/or a reactor. What is it lacking? Unless you are staging your lily pipes just right, you may not always be breaking the water surface. This can be ideal in a heavily planted tank which requires CO2, but otherwise you will experience both water surface film buildup as well as a lack of oxygenation. 

Sponge filter. The oldest and perhaps best shrimp filter? Plenty of top breeders use only large sponges, even when breeding BKK. You can get by with just a sponge. It prevents tons of beneficial bacteria, something shrimps, especially baby shrimps, thrive on. They are cheap and easy to install as well. What does it lack? Mechanical filtration is lacking here.  Chances are it is going to be harder to keep your TDS down in a sponge-only setup. 

UGF (under-gravel filter). The new wave/old wave? These have been popular forever but have been recently making a comeback in shrimp circles for their ability to create huge pockets of aerobic beneficial bacteria in the substrate. Whether you go easy-custom with some PVC pipe or just buy a cheap-o from EBAY, it can be a terrific setup for your shrimps. Why not use a UGF? They won't work so terrifically in heavily planted tanks (one type of shrimp scape). Also, if you don't build it well, you could end up with clogs. What's the difference between cleaning a UGF vs. cleaning an HOB? The difference between 5 minutes and an entire rescape of your tank. UGF are totally worth it, but prepare accordingly. 

So what is the best filter? All of them. Used in combination, it's easy to create a perfect shrimp environment. There is no such thing as too much filtration. Go ahead and do a search on TPT, and try to locate threads and posts that explain, "my shrimp, they were doing just fine... but then I added more filtration!" Mix and match to get the best outcomes. Also note that cleaning filters and changing out media is much easier and less demanding when you know that you have back-up filtration which is still running. While you're cleaning your canister, it's nice to know that sponge filter has your back. 

For both HOBs and canisters, buy yourself a stainless steal pre-filter. Mordalphus sells one so don't be afraid to him up first. If he happens to be out, there are other avenues. Why not just throw on a sponge instead? After all, it will give you some added beneficial bacteria that the steel strainer won't. Right. However, no matter how high the quality of the sponge, it is going to clog on you, likely in a matter of weeks and not months, and that will reduce your flow to almost nothing. On an HOB, this may even mean shutting down your motor. 

- What to do about critters. I can only speak to what I've had to face, but they are common enough in the hobby that you may run across the same little devils. You will find yourself with planaria in your tank at some point. When that happens, you can either dose febendazole in the form of Panacur- C, or else use Benibachi Zero Planaria. For panacur, you can cut the 1oz package into 10 even amounts with a razor blade and dose 1oz at a time per 10 gallons. For the Zero, you just follow their dosing instructions as they include a spoon. 

















The other critter I've fought, and admittedly, with limited success, are scuds. I don't like scuds. Some people love them as they are a natural fish food. You can arm yourself with a turkey baster if you want and pick them out one by one, or sometimes, 15 at a time. However, no matter how hard you "suck", you won't ever get them all minus a full rescape. However, the easiest passive approach by far is just to slice off a piece of organic zucchini, weight it down with a plant weight, then leave over night. In the morning, yank it out. The scuds are slow and dumb, not at all like shrimp. They will hang onto the zucchini as you yank it out while any shrimps will safely jump off. 









- Co2 in a shrimp tank? Most breeders shy away unless they are breeding neos. Still, if you're smart about it then you can absolutely breed caridinas while supplementing Co2. To set up a good Co2 environment for shrimp, make sure that you are breaking the water surface somehow, be that with an HOB or a sponge filter. Further, running a very small bubble count (1 per second or less) 24/7 will give you very consistent, lower ph in your shrimp tank. A few breeders in my local club have used this method to good effect. If you have a planted tank, this method makes sense as happy plants means less waste in the water, and therefore, creates a beneficial environment for shrimp.

- What about blue/green algae? I have seen this come up quite a bit lately so it's worth addressing. Shrimp keepers tend to closely monitor their nitrate levels, wanting them as low as possible. This presents quite a dilemma in heavily planted shrimp tanks, no doubt, because the plants end up lacking in nutrients, creating deficiencies. Even in a sparsely planted tank this can be a problem, however, because low-flow tanks that are especially low in nitrates seem to be a good environment for blue/green "algae" to thrive. BGA isn't an algae though. Rather, it's a bacteria. Fortunately, you can safely wipe this out in your shrimp tank, and in short order, but dosing the antibiotic, Mardel Maracyn, available at most LFS. It will not kill your tank's beneficial bacteria, but the erythromycin will wipe out the BGA for you in a matter of days. To be safe, and so that you don't create a bacteria super strain, make sure to dose at 1/2 the recommended dose or less for 5 straight days until it's gone. Then, a 25% water change to follow, and you're all set. Magic! Even your high-grade shrimp won't blink an eye.










- CRS grading: There are two types of grading when it comes to CRS. Pure Red Line (PRL) and non-PRL. This legend represents what most people keep, the non-PRL type. Visit the nice folks at planetinverts for more great info on shrimps. http://www.planetinverts.com/










- Talking to your LFS (local fish store) about inverts. LFS owners are knowledgeable. Most tend to know a lot about fish, and many know a lot about plants. That said, they are typically a terrible resource for inverts. Why? If they sell inverts then the vast majority of their species are neos. This means that they haven't had to work, claw, and scratch out plans for best keeping cards. If they do sell CRS/CBS, you will usually only find low grades, also easier to take care of. So, don't be afraid to ask your LFS about inverts, but don't be surprised if the advice you receive is either limited or sometimes just plain false. That's no knock on the LFS mind you. Most can't afford to dabble in such delicate species. 

I don't pretend to have "all the answers". No one does. Some of the very best shrimp breeders out there scoff at taking so many precautions. They know what works for them, and that's plenty. However, no one can account for the different water quality found city to city, country to country, etc. Nor can they attest to the strength of the shrimp colony in general, where the shrimp came from, etc. You can still have a perfect parameter tank and see shrimp deaths. Still, if you take some of the advice above, you will limit the dangers in the long run. 

If any one else out there has advice, or even if you take exception to some egregious point I've made above, feel free to chime in.

Finally, just for fun, here's a video of an OEBT in macro. Watch closely for when he adjusts his eye. http://youtu.be/tIBTZEfwJHE


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

I have a new idea, after reading more threads, online, etc. I think a 5.5 gallon aquarium would work well for CRS. What do you guys think? Also, will incadescent lighting be sufficient with the tank being moderately planted, and having access to sunlight?


----------



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I'd use CFL bulbs rather than incandescent and avoid the sunlight.


----------



## tobystanton (Jun 27, 2012)

The bigger the tank the better, try going for at least a 20 gallon if your looking to breed. The larger the tank the better water stability you will have, and that is key for breeding.


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

I think you should start with neocardinias.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

My choices are incadescent hood, came with the tank, or flourescent hood, which I can purchase separately for about $30.00. As for the size, it seems just right for a small breeding operation of CRS. I am going to use an air driven sponge filter, stealth 250W heater, prime water conditioner, moon sand substrate (black in color), java fern, perhaps java moss, and maybe some others if you have suggestions. MTS snails will be in the aquarium as well. Ideas? (The lighting is my biggest concern, and other plants to add).


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Why the heater? 
How are you Going to lower the Ph under 6.5?


----------



## tobystanton (Jun 27, 2012)

Get some orange neocardinia's, they sell for almost as much as CRS and are prolific breeders !


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

Breeding requires the heater, and as far as pH, what levels should the pH be at to encourage breeding, and how should I keep it constant? I am going one step at a time, and pH has yet to be addressed so far.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

What's your opinion on lighting?


----------



## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

I would start of with cherries (RCS). Then after 4-6 months being Confident with keeping and maintenance, CRS is next.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm really interested in breeding CRS, and I do not know what those actually are, I am new to breeding anything except cherry red shrimp.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

I've already bred RCS for about 8 months. Now I am moving up to CRS. I just need help with the lighting question posted above, as well as pH guidance.


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

It seems that you haven't read what that long post I shared. Otherwise you would know.

Post # 9


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

I am talking about lighting, pH I just figured out because I am still reading through your post from the first page.


----------



## AW0L (Jan 15, 2004)

Start off with simple RCS once you get the hang of these then try CRS. Trying to start with a harder type of shrimp will just lost you time money and dead shrimps. Shrimps are harder to keep then fish due to them being more sensitive to water paramaters and enviroment.

I say get your self a 20g long with a cover. a heater that can hold a temp. A thermometer a air pump and sponge filter. A inert substrate and lighting . As for fauna/ flora MTS and mystery snails. Naja grass or java moss. Put it all in a tank add water then wait a month then add a few shrimps at a time. Use aged water for water changes

Just remember its a hobbie and like most hobbies the most youll get is what you put in


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

As for light, depends of what you want. A glass box with shrimp and moss, a planted tank, an aquascape... Etc.

Cardinias usually prefer lower temps. Some people skip heaters. Depends how cold the room gets.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

Alright, hopefully the next person who tries to reply, will at least read the last comment. I have ALREADY become well learned in the basics and experience of RCS breeding and raising. That is why I have decided to move on to CRS breeding. Unfortunately, my old tank leaked and then shattered, so I am needing a new one, and it has been a while. Refreshing myself on what I need to purchase. My question is about flourescent or incadescent lighting, and which would be best, or if both COULD work. Since incadescent full hoods come free with most aquariums. Anyhow, please offer advice on lighting. Thanks.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

It will have a few plants along with shrimp. Since it's 5.5 gallons, I cannot see TOO many plants.


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

beginnertoshrimp said:


> Alright, hopefully the next person who tries to reply, will at least read the last comment. I have ALREADY become well learned in the basics and experience of RCS breeding and raising. That is why I have decided to move on to CRS breeding. Unfortunately, my old tank leaked and then shattered, so I am needing a new one, and it has been a while. Refreshing myself on what I need to purchase. My question is about flourescent or incadescent lighting, and which would be best, or if both COULD work. Since incadescent full hoods come free with most aquariums. Anyhow, please offer advice on lighting. Thanks.


 Chill man, people is trying to help.  You should change the title of the thread instead.


----------



## AW0L (Jan 15, 2004)

Change the incan bulb to a cfl its cheap. A 5 gal is alot harder to control a ph swing even over feeding can cause a water param spike in a smaller tank


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

beginnertoshrimp said:


> It will have a few plants along with shrimp. Since it's 5.5 gallons, I cannot see TOO many plants.


 The topic of light is a bit more complex.

Can you buy bulbs to grow plants for the free hood? Otherwise regular bulbs don't grow plants and heat up a lot. Maybe moss.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

What would the best type of snail be to introduce? I was thinking MTS snails.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

I have decided on fluval shrimp habitat. 7.9 gallons, with a flourescent lighting.


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

beginnertoshrimp said:


> What would the best type of snail be to introduce? I was thinking MTS snails.


Ramshorn


----------



## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

beginnertoshrimp said:


> I have decided on fluval shrimp habitat. 7.9 gallons, with a flourescent lighting.


I would post a new thread asking for reviews on this set up in regards for CRS.

Does it come with fluval shrimp stratum substrate? Some people have adverse opinions about it for CRS but positive with neos.


----------



## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

A majority of the challenges beginners face with caridinas stem from providing the proper tank and water conditions suitable and not necessarily the care thereof since all these shrimps require little intervention apart from performing drip acclimation, salvaging dropped eggs or feeding calcium two to three times a month, and a monthly water change. Biofilm, bacteria, mulm, and ph buffering are paramount in an established tank.

In regards to lighting, I personally use 6500k bulbs to help the plants but any type of light will do so long as you maintain a consistent photo cycle, just as we use to get a sense of each passing day. 

Caridinas require a bit more care to lower ph and encourage beneficial bacterial. Beneficial bacteria become nearly stagnant in sub 6.5 ph which is why many shrimp specific products overlap with bacterial enhancing ingredients. Indian almond leaves are very helpful here. 

If you are familiar with neos, then supplementing to that wisdom should be cake. If you are available sept 9th, Consider coming out to our swap meet. We would be happy to show you were much of these products are sold in manhattan. Keep posting questions, or continue to pm whichever is easier.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

http://www.alphaprobreeders.com/products/"Fluval-Ebi,-nano-shrimp-habitat-.html
That is a link to the aquarium. I will be using this with a 100 watt submersible heater, placing a bio-foam sponge over the filter tube to prevent the young from being sucked up the tube, along with some test strips for pH, hardness, nitrate, nitrite, etc. Why Ramshorn? Another question to add: Should I purchase air stones and an air pump, or should about 100-200 shrimp be fine in this set-up?


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

About my snail question posted above:
I was torn between three options:
Black Mystery, Ramshorn, and MTS.
Apparently Mystery Snails eat live plants, so they are not suitable. Any thoughts on Ramshorn vs MTS?


----------



## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

The ebi is a nice kit. Bear in mind shrimp are largely bottom dwellers so its practical to have more horizontal tank space. Some have reported problems with the rear facia (background panel) falling off and causing grief. Might want to search on that in our journals.

Mts and ramshorns serve different purposes and complement shrimp tanks. Mts primarily churn through the soil and aerate the substrate. Ramshorns polish the rest of the tank which cover some light varieties of algae on plants without damaging the them. Mysteries are not plant safe and are perfectly fine in a shrimp only tank however they do generate a significant amount of waste.

Snails serve to finish off food left by the shrimp. If feeding excess becomes a habit, one will be rewarded with a snail population boom. If one notices pitting in the snail shells, it indicates a potential calcium deficiency in the tank... Which likely affect Shrimp molting in the tank. They offer more benefits than many hobbyists give credit for. One of many indicators or "canaries in a coal mine" for our tanks


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

As of now, thanks to all of your help, my only questions involve the following (which is all posted above),
Snails,
Air pumps and air stones,
and how long I should cycle for.


----------



## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Air stones/pumps help increase gas exchange and surface agitation. They aren't compulsory but beneficial if available.

Abide by a typical fish tank cycle, normally 4-6 weeks, longer for lower ph setups due to the nitrospora bacteria being the most stagnant for nitrate/nitride conversion. Shorter if seeded with bacteria from an established tank, though ymmv by the size of tank and amount of seeded bacteria used. You are likely still looking at two to three weeks with ammonia and bacteria dosing.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

How about an air pump and air stones?
How long should I cycle the water for before stocking with shrimp?


----------



## aznartist34 (Nov 19, 2010)

Air pumps and airstones are a dime a dozen. You can find them at any pet store. Read the reviews that people give them online on amazon or petsmart or any online vendor. The cycle is never the same from one tank to another so I suggest you read up on the proper way to cycle a tank. Like I said before, you should read up on the basics before you spend a lot of money and have it turn into a disaster.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

How long would you need to cycle a 7.9 gallon aquarium with MTS and Ramshorn snails, and 3 different plants? My question wasn't where and how to get air pump and air stones, it was about the likelihood of me needing one.


----------



## aznartist34 (Nov 19, 2010)

You said you know a lot about crs and rcs and that you have been breeding rcs. The questions you are asking makes it sound like you never kept shrimps before. I would worry less about equipment and more about the water parameters and how stable they are to keep crs. So a better question for you is your water parameter within range to keep crs. The thing with a heater also, you wouldn't need one at this time since it's still warm and crs like temps in the low 70's.


----------



## tobystanton (Jun 27, 2012)

aznartist34 said:


> You said you know a lot about crs and rcs and that you have been breeding rcs. The questions you are asking makes it sound like you never kept shrimps before. I would worry less about equipment and more about the water parameters and how stable they are to keep crs. So a better question for you is your water parameter within range to keep crs. The thing with a heater also, you wouldn't need one at this time since it's still warm and crs like temps in the low 70's.


+1


Also CRS can go to 50's or lower


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

I never had to use an air pump or air stone for rcs, but wanted to make sure crs weren't different. That doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about. As far as water parameters, it isn't too big of a hassle. My house is constantly cooled and heated to 70 F depending on season, and the tank water is generally a little cooler. I also want them to breed, so a heater would be needed to raise the temperature.


----------



## aznartist34 (Nov 19, 2010)

How warm are you planning on keeping the tank? Crs don't thrive in temps approaching 80. Water parameters is actually the main thing when it comes to keeping caridina species, so not sure what you mean by not too big of a hassle.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

Not too big of a hassle meaning that it won't be difficult to handle. Basic tests and keeping temp. constant along wcs. Basic shrimp stuff, lol. Would you say I should use an air stone and air pump, or just forget it?


----------



## tobystanton (Jun 27, 2012)

You have to keep the PH lower, they wont thrive and breed in the same water as your RCS so you either have to get a substrate that buffers the water lower, or use distilled or r/o water.

Lights/Air stone/ Tank are all secondary to the water conditions.


----------



## beginnertoshrimp (Aug 30, 2012)

Exactly. Water conditions are already discussed and figured out. The pH will be lower, and I wouldn't expect them to breed in the same water, hence the reason I stated that I no longer breed RCS.


----------



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

beginnertoshrimp said:


> Exactly. Water conditions are already discussed and figured out. The pH will be lower, and I wouldn't expect them to breed in the same water, hence the reason I stated that I no longer breed RCS.


Well it sounds like you are good to go then. Good luck.

/end thread


----------



## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

Read, read, and READ! Then absorb the information. If you don't know what CRS are but you want to breed them for profit, you are in for a nightmare. 5.5 gallons seems small. Unless you know exactly what you are doing, you will have a difficult time keeping ideal water parameters.

I have quite a bit of experience keeping fish but only about a years worth keeping shrimp. For me my 20g shrimp tank was small. Because I had to learn what and when, the 20g gave me more room for error because of the larger volume of water.

I am considering setting up a small tank now, but if my goal was to breed, especially for profit, there is no way I would use a 5.5g.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Overgrowth (Feb 19, 2012)

I noticed that no one has posted the ideal parameters for CRS. I guess this will help you since you've been asking about water parameters: 
pH 6.2-6.8
GH 3-6 
KH 0-2(sometimes 3)
TDS 100-180

A word of advice: a lot of people don't really pay attention to TDS, but I think that it's really important for harder shrimp. Usually when you see people's posts about how they bred CRS in sub 7 pH water they don't list the TDS. My theory is that TDS is the factor that determines surviving and thriving. For example, my OEBT tank had perfect pH (7.2) GH (7) and KH (2) but they were not breeding since the day I got them. Then I got a TDS meter and found out that my TDS was 327!!! So I lowered it to 220 and BAM, a berried shrimp.

Of course that's just my theory and experience and hasn't been tested so it's not 100% but it's always good to have safe TDS levels. Happy shrimping


----------



## aweeby (Oct 1, 2011)

i really think you need to re-read the info that's being posted on this thread. there's some good stuff people have posted. Honestly, though, you should do your own research. Look through some of the thread on the shrimp sub forum. I think this is why you are getting a few curt responses. 


CRS/CBS are MUCH harder to keep than neos. Even I know this, and I'm far from an expert on shrimp. If I were you, I'd try other neos. Rilis, blues, oranges etc. come to mind. They are more of a step up from RCS and yet will be far more economical to breed and sell. You can get about 2-4$ for them if you know how to sell your product. If this is going to be a money making endeavor, I'm going to repeat what people have said before: the 5.5g is not enough. I think I've spent more time, research, and money on my 20g CBS tank than any of my other tanks individually and I still feel hesitant to put shrimp in there. 

I read through the whole thread, and maybe I missed it, but if you haven't already, think about these questions. 
How will you lower pH? Moon sand is not going to do that for you.
How will you lower TDS? Do you have a TDS meter? Same goes for gH and kH. 
Where is your water coming from? 
How big is the biofilter going to be?
Do you have a basic set of test kits? (i.e. no2, no3, nh4/nh3, pH...?)



Getting them to survive is what you should be worried about now, breeding is icing on the cake.


----------



## AwkwardShrimp (Jun 26, 2012)

+1 I've also read the whole thread, you say you've kept RCs before that's fine bit asking simple questions about cycling is making me think you are new to proper fish/shrimp keeping. All the questions you have asked have been answered dozens of time on this forum.
This forum is an awesome knowledge base for almost anything aquatic. All you have to do is search 
Like it was said before you are worried way too much about breeding, first worry about being able to keep them alive. Crs are 4$ a piece I'd hate to see them die because sub par water parameters. Buy a TDS meter and test kit, as well as gh, kh test kits and test your tap water parameters to see if your tap is suitable to keep Crs, if not you'll have to look in to an RO unit. Good luck, patience is key in this hobby, rushing will just get you bad results

Sent from my HTC Mecha using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


----------



## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm sorry if it feels like people here are bashing you but the reason is, people are giving you good advice and your responses are either irrelevant, sporatic, or not making any sense. Hence, those offering you valuable advice are becoming confuse then frustrated.

The best thing to do is to be completely honest, and open to suggestions/advice. It is more than obvious you have very limited if any experience keeping anything in aquariums. For instance, several people have told you that a heater, especially during the summer is the least of your worries. And as far as you needing a heater for breeding...what? 

Tank size that you are going with is to small for breeding yet the suggestions have fallen on deaf ears. I came to this forum for advice with an open mind, and willing to try the things suggested and change things if I was told to. As a result I have made progress and continue to improve my knowledge and experience.

So, I suggest, and must tell you...the most important thing for you to do is to listen to the advice people are offering you. Forget about specific aspects of lighting, water parameters, filters, substrate etc. Take a deep breath, sit back and focus your attention on what is being suggested to you. Once you are able to do that, THEN you can start putting the pieces of the puzzle together.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Overgrowth (Feb 19, 2012)

Shrimpaholic said:


> I'm sorry if it feels like people here are bashing you but the reason is, people are giving you good advice and your responses are either irrelevant, sporatic, or not making any sense. Hence, those offering you valuable advice are becoming confuse then frustrated.
> 
> The best thing to do is to be completely honest, and open to suggestions/advice. It is more than obvious you have very limited if any experience keeping anything in aquariums. For instance, several people have told you that a heater, especially during the summer is the least of your worries. And as far as you needing a heater for breeding...what?
> 
> ...


+1 :thumbsup:


----------

