# Malay Hillstream Riparium



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I have a concept for a new display pretty well-fleshed out and i'm ready to move on it.

*Hardware/Life Support:*

I plan to use this tank...

http://op5.triadinet.com/elmers/nlcatalog.asp?loc=nlsearch.asp&args=action|search|searchfor|56a|searchby|bydesc 

This ought to be a good size and shape for a riparium setup. It is 24" tall, so there is plenty of room for plants to grow up, including the taller-statured stuff that I plan to use. This model is close to the Aqueon 65, but 6" shorter at 30" wide. It is still 18" deep front-to-back and closer in shape to a cube, a difference that I hope can help me to accentuate visual depth. 

This will be a _moderate humidity_ system an idea that I will explain more later on. I am not sure if that Perfecto tank comes supplied with a glass canopy, but I will essentially plan to cover most of the top while having a 1-2" gap along the front. This will permit a degree of air circulation that should keep the glass free of very much condensation on the inside. I'm guessing at a target relative humidity of ~70% or so. 

I want to use an inexpensive T5 grow-light similar to the one that I have over my 55-gallon crypts riparium.










The same manufacturer makes a 24", 24-watt model--super cute and just 40 bucks...

http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=8880#

This will be a cheap option f I can get away with just this light at less than 1/2-watt/gallon of tank volume. I haven't tried to measure differences yet, I get the impression that planted ripariums can get along with relatively less light than traditional planted tanks. There are a number of good low-light plants to choose from and the light does not have to penetrate through such depths of water as in a regular tank. Anyway, I'll see how the plants perform with just one fixture. I can add a second later on if needed.

Filtration will be pretty cheap too. I should be able to make it with the littlest Filstar, applying a plumbing modification to reach down to the water. 

_For the cabinet_ I want to apply the same general idea that I used for some other stands that I made, but closer to this one in construction...



kimcadmus said:


>


...and with a somewhat different construction to accommodate my caveman woodworking skills.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes! I was telling hoppy to make a rip out of a 56 column. Maybe you could make a video with this one and post it on youtube so that people will know how to set one up. You don't need anything fancy, just a camcorder, or a camera that has video mode


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

The Perfecto 37 column and 47 column look pretty alright too, although those two models are both just 20 inches wide. It would be difficult to fit very many planters in there, but you could fill out the planting with the right big, full plants. More difficult too to find very good lighting for a tank so narrow.

I still gotta finish up some more of these written articles before trying to mess around with video. I made a little more headway on the step-by-step article:

http://hydrophytesblog.com/?p=455


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I picked up the tank tonight. With a double discount I got one new for a hundred and ten bucks. I have some continued conceptual observations.

*Substrate:*

My general plan is to use a light-colored coarse sand with larger stones and manzanita branches that will stand up erect out of the water. My 65 has the general layout for manzanita that I have in mind...










So, imagine that with some stones around the bases of the manzanita branches. That scape has a triangular orientation, but I think that a mound shape might be better for this new one. I'll probably just have to see how my plants fit into the space before settling on a scape theme.

I like to use these bases that I make with 1/4" sheet PVC to anchor manzanita branches...










...much easier than wedging into rockwork.

I found an interesting and different application of stones that *jargonchipmunk* used in his mineralized setup...



jargonchipmunk said:


>


At first impression this material looks unnatural and like nothing you would see at the bottom of a river or lake, but I like it a lot. I wonder if it or some other boldly-patterned or brightly-colored rock will work in this display(?). I might purchase some samples to get a better idea. There are quite a few options at the nearby big-box petstore, but it is expensive. We also have a block & stone yard close by where I can hunt for rocks.

I intend to just use inert silica sand for the floor of the tank. I could also use a clay gravel plant substrate--for somewhat better plant nutrition--but most of these materials are darker in color and it is important to use bright materials in the underwater portions of ripariums because that region becomes shaded by the emersed plants. I hope to find some alternaive to the sand that I have been using, pool filter sand. I have a persistent and annoying growth of powdery red algae in a couple of my tanks--does anybody know what this might be?--and I suspect that it might be diatoms encouraged by the pool filter sand in those tanks. I might keep looking for 3m Colorquartz, which ought to be more stable, but haven't had any luck yet.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

*Plants:*

I am selecting plants for this display with the idea of maintaining low to moderate light and moderate humidity. I also have plant size and shape in mind. This tank has quite a bit of room, so I can include some larger specimens. 









*Spathiphyllum sp.*

Peace lilies might build much of the background of the plant scape. <em>Spathiphyllum</em> are really great, low-maintenance plants, and they are cheap too. I purchased this one for just a few bucks at a big box home improvement store. With some time for their roots to adapt to wet conditions they grow really well in ripariums.









*Spathiphyllum 'Golden Glow'*

Here is another new _Spathiphyllum_ that I acquired recently. The chartreuse to yellow coloration of this 'Golden Glow' will contrast nicely against those other peace lilies if I situate just one or two in among the other plants. 









*Cryptocoryne ciliata*

_C. ciliata_ is a great plant. It is hardy, pretty fast-growing and has bizarre and showy flowers. These also have the same general leaf shape and growth habit as peace lilies, so I can also mix one or two of these large plants into the background of the display.









*Alocasia 'Polly'*

Another great one, this "African mask plant", _Alocasia_ 'Polly', might work well as a single centerpiece specimen. I was really pleased to find this one to grow well in a riparium planters: I had been advised that it requires drier conditions









*Microsorum sp*.

Java ferns grow really well on Trellis Rafts. I might start to run out of room with my other large plants, but I think I will try to float this one in there as a midground plant.









*Anubias barteri var. nana[/i*_]

Anubias barteri, planted on an Ep-Trellis, is another good midground element. So far, all of the plants that I have picked out as die from the fern are aroids, belonging to Family Araceae. I might include this one in favor of the Microsorum in order to keep a strict aroid theme









*Cryptocoryne 'Green Gecko'*

Crypts are also aroids. I think that the the above water area of this setup will be too dry for most crypts, aside from ciliata, but I will definitely use crypts underwater. 'Green Gecko' s one of my favorites and it has a nice, tidy growth habit that will mimic the shape of some of the emersed plants that I plan to use._


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Thank you for starting on the 56 gallon column tank. I'm very close to doing so myself, and I have my stand designed - similar proportions and shape to your galvanized steel and 2x4 design, but without the metal. (My wife isn't impressed by the metal). Now, I can't wait to see the stand you make for this one.


----------



## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Man, those are some cool plants! You probably have already considered but what do you plan for the winter? Would you need additional arrangements for maintaining heat and moisture?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I think that I have the plants pretty well figured out. Planting will be easy because I have all of the emersed stuff already planted in planters. Looking at that list again I am remind that I have a high-humidity plant in there, the _A. barteri nana_, which will probably find it to be too dry in this tank. I will probably just use the Java fern in the midground. I really need to get some needle-leaf going emersed. That one that I have gets awful big and coarse.

I will probably just stick a regular heater in there when the room cools down. Like I mentioned above, these are all moderate-humidity plants that can gorw well with relaitve humidity 50% or higher. I should be able to maitain this by covering most of the top with a glass top, but leaving a gap of an inch or two to encourage some air circulation. If the room gets very dry in the winter I can close that gap down.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

*Digsy* recently complete a rescape that has the same general shape I have in mind.



Digsy said:


>


My planting will be similar in having a mound shape, but it will be repeated above and below the water. I am also using a lot of broad-leaved plants. I am going to try to get the manzanit to reach up high if I can.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I set up the tank in a temporary way in the shop. 










As you might notice, this bench is just a hollow-core door atop a pair of sawhorses. I plan to put some water in there. This oughta be OK--the aquarium is centered right over one of the horses and I'll only add about 8" of water. I'll have to take it all apart again to move it into its permanent spot, but while I put the stand together I can start adapting a few of the plants to life in this environment and also cycle the sand substrate.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Are you going to remove the plastic rim? I know you want a glass cover on the tank, but is that rim necessary for that? Actually, I'm asking because I want to remove the rim when I get one of those, and I'm curious about how big a job that is.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm leaving the rim on this one because I am going to use moderate-humidity plants, especially _Spathiphyllum_, and I want to be able to control humidity with a partial canopy covering. It is my hope that this plant combination will be very low maintenance. 

Hey what do you think about my rock ideas?

Those top rims are on pretty tight. The way to take them off is to shave away plastic all around the top outside edge with a _block plane_. Having split the rim into two pieces it should be easy to pull it away. But this is still a lot of work, requiring a lot of laborious silicone scraping and careful replacement of the silicone seam in each top corner.

I removed the rim on another tank by sinking a small drill bit deep into the chuck on my cordless driver and using it like a router--a method that I do not recommend.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> Hey what do you think about my rock ideas?


I rarely ever comment about the aesthetics of aquascaping, simply because I am all thumbs when it comes to that. It is hard for me to judge how any aquascape will look, just from the basic ideas, but for a riparium, where the underwater part has to compliment the above water part, I feel like I have no thumbs at all! Maybe in a year or so I will have enough of a feel for this to have an opinion when a question like this comes up, but not now.


----------



## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

"African mask plant", Alocasia 'Polly'
Now that is one interesting plant!

Natural or not the rocks in the above pic look good to me!
Have you tried larger rock or rocks that break above the water line in a few places? I think that would add a nice effect to bring the hardscape above the water line in a place or two. 
md!


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I've noticed that all your ripariums which I've seen are 1/3 full. Any reason not 2/3 with a lot out of the tank? Too hard to light the submersed plants without burning the emmersed ones? Humidity issues? Just curious!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

mountaindew said:


> "African mask plant", Alocasia 'Polly'
> Now that is one interesting plant!
> 
> Natural or not the rocks in the above pic look good to me!
> ...


Yeah I like those rocks too. How do you think they would look with manzanita? The LFS had several other funny rocks too. One concern that I have for that zebra stone is that it might look bad with even small amounts of algae and gunk growing on it. I find that the looks of more natural rounded stones often benefit from some algae growth. It might be possible to keep them clean because lighting in this tank will be low-intensity.

I agree it would be cool to include rocks that could break surface. In this tank the rocks would have to be very large to clear the ~9" water depth, but this idea might work OK with some other configuration. I do plant to have the manzanita reach through the water surface.

I really was pleased to find that _Alocasia_ to grow well like this. That will be a good one.


----------



## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

I was looking through your thread and was surprised to see a picture I recognized.  I'm excited to see your setup and it's kind of cool that I can borrow ideas from your similar setup for my submersed one! Keep those updates coming!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yep I think this one will look somewhat like your new scape. I stuck some plants in the tank last night and hope to put up a picture or two to give the general impression. 

I need to work on more finer-leaved plants. I have _Cryptocoryne ciliata _and several peace lilies now and I see that they have rather big coarse foliage. I just purchased some needle-leaf from *clwatkins10* on the SNS and that will probably be a good one, although it might take a while to grow it out.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> Yep I think this one will look somewhat like your new scape. I stuck some plants in the tank last night and hope to put up a picture or two to give the general impression.
> 
> I need to work on more finer-leaved plants. I have _Cryptocoryne ciliata _and several peace lilies now and I see that they have rather big coarse foliage. I just purchased some needle-leaf from *clwatkins10* on the SNS and that will probably be a good one, although it might take a while to grow it out.


Emersed NL will look awesome if it gets the pinnate leaves that regular emersed j. fern gets


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm sure it will look cool. It might take a while to get nice full emersed plants. The regular Java fern that I have growing on trellis rafts took several months just to begin growing emersed fronds.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here is a quick shot from tonight...










Really I just stuck the plants in there, but this gives a general impression of what I have in mind for the emersed area. For the underwater scape I will use plants that resemble these in general form. 

I can see that I will select against some of these plants. I think that the composition will need some specimens with finer foliage. There are five different _Spathiphyllum_ in there now. To be honest, I think that spaths are overall pretty boring plants, but they are just about the hardiest group of plants that I have encountered for ripariums and they are good for filling the background. The trick is to find smaller growing varieties, because most grow pretty big.

I just stuck a 36" CF striplight on top there for temporary lighting, and covered part of the top with saran wrap to maintain some humidity.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This shot shows a good way to plant _Spathiphyllum_ in a hanging planter. Spaths apparently require a good deal of oxygen around their roots, so it is important that water be able to diffuse with ease through the planter media.










To plant this one I began by trimming the roots back to about 1 1/2" in length. Then I positioned the plant in the planter with the top of the crown about even with the top of the planter cup. I filled around the roots with round clay pellets acquired from a local hydroponics shop, tapping the planter as I poured so that the pellets would settle in around the roots and fill voids. 










I only filled to about 3/8" from the top rim of the planter cup so that I could top the pellets with a layer of a finer-grained clay gravel. This step is important. The gravel weights down the pellets, which would otherwise tend to float away if the water level were to rise over the top of the planter cup. I think that they look better as a cap than the round pellets and they might also retain some nutrients for the plant roots. 

_Spathiphyllum_ apparently have rather modest nutrient demands and they seem to do well with the fertilizers dissolved in the aquarium water. I have also planted a few _Anubias_, including _A. congensis_, in this manner, as they also require a more open rooting environment.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's that Java fern.










This thing has really grown like crazy as an emersed plant. You can see it in the tank shot to the left side. Like I said before, the foliage of this large plant is more coarse than what I would like. I hope to get some needle-leaf going on Trellis Rafts soon, although it will take a while to get big full specimens like this one.


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

macclellan said:


> I've noticed that all your ripariums which I've seen are 1/3 full. Any reason not 2/3 with a lot out of the tank? Too hard to light the submersed plants without burning the emmersed ones? Humidity issues? Just curious!


Still curious!


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That looks awesome. That java fern is crazy! I mailed your plants this morning just so you know.

I was going to recommend filling it so that it was 1/3 full of water, you know, the rule of thirds, then I realized that the dry part made the golden ration, so nevermind! Keep it the way it is!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

macclellan said:


> I've noticed that all your ripariums which I've seen are 1/3 full. Any reason not 2/3 with a lot out of the tank? Too hard to light the submersed plants without burning the emmersed ones? Humidity issues? Just curious!


Sorry I missed this question I thought there was something else. 

It would be easy enough to just hang the plants up higher and just have them grow out of the top of the tank, except for certain high-humidty plants, such as _Anubias_, which require a closed canopy for maintenance of suitable relative humidities. However, this would be less visually effective. The most important aspect of a planted aquarium that makes it work as a pleasing garden design is that it is contained within the "frame" created by the bounds of the aquarium enclosure. Since all of the elements inside of the frame relate to each other in a relative way, with thoughtful and artistic planning and the right plants and substrates one can create a design that seems to fill a much larger space than it really does and express other ideas and feelings. If you take away the aquarium frame (or photograph frame, which usually conforms to the bounds of the tank), it is all reduced to just a little group of plants sitting there, which still might be nice enough, as in a _wabi kusa_ arrangement.

There is a thread from a while back that someone from the UK put together describing a discus display with an ingenious mechanism for growing plants hydroponically around the top rim of the tank.



kingborris said:


> *Water*


This is the same general plant growing concept as applied in a planted riparium and the emergent plants here create a pleasing tropical effect, but they reach up and out of the tank and thus don't really interact visually with the things inside of the aquarium in a very convincing way. This system must have outstanding biological filtration.

The tallest plants in the 120 that I have set up actually do grow up out of the tank, but are mostly contained within.


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

hydrophyte said:


> Since all of the elements inside of the frame relate to each other in a relative way, with thoughtful and artistic planning and the right plants and substrates one can create a design that seems to fill a much larger space than it really does and express other ideas and feelings. If you take away the aquarium frame (or photograph frame, which usually conforms to the bounds of the tank), it is all reduced to just a little group of plants sitting there, which still might be nice enough, as in a _wabi kusa_ arrangement.


Thanks for the response. By using rimless aquariums, the suggestion is already to get 'beyond' the frame. So, I resist the idea that photography is the best or only art analogy, especially for ripariums which are already more than a 'box of water.' Sculpture or gardens offer better analogies. As an aside, I find the use of analogies in environmental aesthetics (something I've been studying lately) very intriguing. 

I don't see how having plants coming out of the tank "reduces" the composition to a mere group of plants; it's just different. With a rimless tank and clean white wall behind the tank, it seems like a very pleasing composition could be made. Don't get me wrong, I love what I've seen from you so far, and am thinking about doing one, but I might try thinking outside the box, literally. Similar to the pic you just posted, but done a bit more cleanly, and perhaps with Japanese-style spotlight halide(s) flush with the ceiling.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well that's just my opinion. I'm sure that one could make something pretty cool like you describe, but I think an effort would have to make it all look as though the emersed part and the underwater area are parts of the same composition. One particular problem that I see is the top front rim of the tank would put a line, just a little bit higher than the waterline, right through the bottom of the emersed foliage. You would also also end up with backgrounds (the wall behind and the tank rear pane) with two different depths, colors, shadows and light reflectivity. 

A tank like this might be really pleasing for observation from above, because the emersed foliage would still be right there, but the water surface would be closer to the viewer...maybe in a real shallow tank. Plant selection would also be important. For some reason I think that grassy-type plants would work best with this idea. _Cyprerus_ umbrella sedge could be especially nice. 

I really like the idea of bright lights mounted up higher. I wonder why this idea hasn't been explored more with planted tanks(?). How much more pleasing would it be to have a spotlight beam shining from the ceiling for an open-top tank than to have a bulky fixture right there in the way? LED's could be especially good for this because I understand most have a focused beam.


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Yeah, I was actually thinking of something shallow like a 20L or 30B and having the submerged plants only be one or _maybe_ two 'levels' with most of the interest and depth coming from the emmersed stuff out of the tank. The issues you mentioned are worth considering. Perhaps its best to fill the tank with water so there are only two transitions instead of three. I'm not trying to detract from 'normal' ripariums by any means, just thinking about other ways of trying one. Don't pay too much attention to me though. My best roles are as the antagonist.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

clwatkins10 said:


> That looks awesome. That java fern is crazy! I mailed your plants this morning just so you know.
> 
> I was going to recommend filling it so that it was 1/3 full of water, you know, the rule of thirds, then I realized that the dry part made the golden ration, so nevermind! Keep it the way it is!


Yeah the golden ratio is a reliable way to set this up. It's actually not quite 1/3 and 2/3. If my math is right I get it by multiplying total distance by .39.

Thanks again for those plants. I'm watching out for the box.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

How do you adapt Java Fern to life emersed? I have some needle leaf, I think, Java Fern that I will try to use in a riparium, but I'm not sure how to make the switch. I'm assuming it should be started with very high humidity for a few weeks?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I started that plant on an "Epi Trellis Raft". 










The design is supposed to provide a larger flat surface area for "epiphytic" plants like ferns and _Anubias_. It is also more foam, so that it can provide more floatation for the plants as they grow. The pieces that I have are just prototypes and the shop only cut a few dozen for me. Would you like a couple? I could send some easily enough. The regular Trellis Raft I'm sure would also work, but like I say it doesn't have as much surface area or foam.

I used small plastic cable ties to hold the pieces of fern rhizome in place. Here's a shot of an _Anubias_ tied to a raft. I found that it was important to wrap the tie around the _roots_, rather than the rhizome itself, because this damaged the rhizome and caused rot.










In order to encourage emersed growth for the Java fern I placed them in a sealed top tank with an airstone so that humidity was maintained quite high. I also draped some pieces of long-fibre spagnum moss across the raft, although I don't know if this step was really necessary because the whole thing stayed quite wet all of the time. It took a long time for the ferns to grow new emersed fronds. They grew slowly for another month or so, and then suddenly three months or so after planting they grew very fast and filled the raft in no time. 

I found that the Java fern can handle lower humidities (maybe ~50%) than most of the other emersed aquarium plants that I have tried, such as crypts and _Anubias_, so they should be good for tanks with more air circulation.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Have you ever tried emersed bolbitis?


----------



## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Ooh wow looks good, sounds like decent inspiration for my next wave of emersed tanks.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I have a real nice _Bolbitis_ growing on one of those rafts.










That one is an interesting story. I maintained it in very high humidity for months as it slowly put on new fronds. The fronds stayed very low, almost horizontal, and looked just like the underwater fronds. I have seen pictures form Africa of the same one--I think it's _B. heudelotti _--growing emersed with very different leaves: having erect, stiff petioles, taller, and with spaces in between the leaflets. Just a month or so ago my _Bolbitis_ to develop leaves more like those emersed form. They are still only about 8" tall, but getting taller as new ones form. 

I guess it took all that time until the plant was finally convinced that it was out of the water.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Haha, awesome!


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I still have extra regular foam rafts, so I will try a small piece of my Java Fern on that. I'm not sure yet if I want to cover the tank with saran wrap to get more humidity yet. And, the Bolbitis just has to be a future project - looks awesome. Now I may set up a spare 10 gallon tank just to try out some plants, but not in the living room. Clearly shifting to ripariums doesn't cure multiple tank disease.:hihi:


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

A 10-gallon with a lid and an airstone ought to work fine for that. I have added used tank water to those small grow out tanks and just pipetted small amount of extra ferts. That way they are perhaps more stable with that small volume of water. 

Well let me know if you might ever want a couple of those. I have extra. I can probably send in an envelope for just a couple of bucks.


----------



## idontknow (May 9, 2008)

I love your tanks....cant wait to see this one unfold


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

idontknow said:


> I love your tanks....cant wait to see this one unfold


I'm excited to see what you do with that big new tank. You already have a lot of great stuff in there.

My decorative substrate is on the way. I ordered this stuff...

http://www.adgshop.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=104%2D067

...and this stuff...

http://www.adgshop.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=104%2D075

I can't wait to see it! Whoooot! Seriously, maybe I should get out more. Should I be so excited about bags of rocks?

I also picked up a sheet of prism diffuser plate at the hardware store, just like this material...

http://www.allplaz.com/acatalog/Prism.JPG

I am going to take a shot at building the canopy with it. I anticipate a few importatn advantages of this material over glass.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

You'll like that forest sand. The grain size is somewhat medium from what I can tell. It's quality stuff :thumbsup:


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

clwatkins10 said:


> I was going to recommend filling it so that it was 1/3 full of water, you know, the rule of thirds, then I realized that the dry part made the golden ratio, so nevermind! Keep it the way it is!





hydrophyte said:


> Yeah the golden ratio is a reliable way to set this up. It's actually not quite 1/3 and 2/3. If my math is right I get it by multiplying total distance by .39.


The rule of thirds and the golden ratio are not the same thing. The golden rule (golden section, divine proportion, divine section, etc.) is a classic mathematical ratio and subsequent design principle close but not equal to 1/3 (1.6180339887...). The rule of thirds is a relatively new compositional rule of thumb (divide a rectangle with three equivalent horizontal and vertical lines and place compositional points of interest at the intersections). Given the scale of most aquariums, the difference between the two is so small as to be insignificant, IMHO, even though they aren't strictly speaking identical.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

In my opinion the golden section looks more natural. When areas are divided into thirds it really looks to my eye as though sliced up by a human, but the golden section has a more natural appearance. 

Here's an example from landscape painting, _The Harvesters_, 1565, by Pieter Bruegel.










It looks to me like the tree is right on the golden section, a little more than 1/3 from the right.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

A Priority Mail bax came today with the needle-leaf Java fern and other goodies that *clwatkins10* sent. Thanks man! Like I mentioned before, I have some regular Java fern that I stuck in here to try out as a midground plant, but it's too big and huge. I hope that the needle-leaf will grow into a more compact and finer emersed plant: might take a while though.


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

hydrophyte said:


> I guess it took all that time until the plant was finally convinced that it was out of the water.


here's my friend's emersed bolbitis back then.









he just lay the bolbitis' rhizome without leaves there and then it happened unexpectedly.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's neat. I wonder if that is _heudelotti_(?). It doesn't look quite the same as mine. 

I am reminded that I was going to go look for more information about peace lilies. It is surprising to me that even though they are such ubiquitous houseplants, there is very little information about _Spathiphyllum_ online. I did some research with some different search terms and ran into this article:

http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Spathiphyllum

I really want to look into sources for _Spathiphyllum_ species. As that article mentions, the species can be expected to be hardier than hybrids and I imagine that some might also be better foliage plants. Most of the hybrids have been selected for bigger and more prolific blooms and don't have such nice foliage, with leaves of all different sizes and disorganized appearance. 

I wonder if Dr. Tom Croat at the Missouri Botanical Garden might be able to suggest where I could find some new species accessions(?). It seems as though somebody must have some, because those would have provided the material they used to create the horticultural hybrids.

Here's another one of the hybrids that I have, 'Jetty Junior'. This one is nice because it stays small.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I'm finding that 56 Column tanks are not easy to get. My local PetSmart sells them, but only with a flashy stand included, for $300. They refuse to sell just the tank. So, I visited another LFS, with a huge selection of tanks - none there, and when the clerk checked, none were available for special order either. He offered to make me one, but I know that would be too costly for me. My next efforts will be with my "fingers doing the walking". Yours may soon be a rare specimen, worth far more than you paid for it.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Good luck with that. Now that you mention it I seem to remember something about the 56 column being phased out. However, the store that I visited before finding this one on sale told me that they could order the 56 with quick delivery and that their distributor had them in stock. I believe that Perfecto was bought out by Aqueon/Central Aquatics. 

The standard retail price is ~$130.

If you can't find the 56 then the Aqueon 65 might be a good alternative. It is almost the same shape, but 6 inches wider. Last winter I heard rumors that Aqueon would have their new rimless 65 with bevelled edges on the market this summer, but I haven't seen it yet.


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

hydrophyte said:


> That's neat. I wonder if that is _heudelotti_(?). It doesn't look quite the same as mine.


that is Bolbitis heudelotii. other species of Bolbitis is hard to find here.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> Good luck with that. Now that you mention it I seem to remember something about the 56 column being phased out. However, the store that I visited before finding this one on sale told me that they could order the 56 with quick delivery and that their distributor had them in stock. I believe that Perfecto was bought out by Aqueon/Central Aquatics.
> 
> The standard retail price is ~$130.
> 
> If you can't find the 56 then the Aqueon 65 might be a good alternative. It is almost the same shape, but 6 inches wider. Last winter I heard rumors that Aqueon would have their new rimless 65 with bevelled edges on the market this summer, but I haven't seen it yet.


It will always be hard to find a rimless tank that is both medium sized and tall. That requires that thicker glass be used, driving up the cost, and probably greatly reducing the market. The 65 gallon is a fall back position for me - I do barely have room for it, but the weight will be a challenge to move around, compared to the 56 column. Ripariums, with their need for more tank height, add complications to selecting an aquarium.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

You know what would be a really nice shape for ripariums would be a tank 24" wide X 18" deep front-to-back, and then maybe 18-24" tall. I think that I have looked around among all of the major manufacturers and it appears that nobody builds any such standard tanks. 

I have considered ordering a custom acrylic with those dimensions because that could make a handy setup for trade shows.

Oh I just remembered another one similar to the 56, the very first one on the following page, the Oceanic, Ultimate 50-gallon:

http://www.oceanicsystems.com/products/ultimate.php/UltimateAquarium50-BlackTrim-5.jpg

I have to guess that that one would be more like >$200, but it has finer construction than the Perfecto including a Starphire front pane polished edges and a nicer frame.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> You know what would be a really nice shape for ripariums would be a tank 24" wide X 18" deep front-to-back, and then maybe 18-24" tall. I think that I have looked around among all of the major manufacturers and it appears that nobody builds any such standard tanks.


I have a tank that size (24 x 18 x 24 high ~ 44 gallns), but unfortunitely it's an exo terra terrarium


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's interesting. That enclosure would have the advantage of the front-opening doors, but it looks like it would hold only 6" or so of water. Is that about right? Plus it has that big plastic bar along the bottom of the door frame.

This one is interesting:

http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/turtle_terrarium.php

That could look cool with plants growing out of the top. *maclellan* suggested that as an idea. I don't like the way that the side panels slope down to the front: it would look better if it were a simple box.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

_There's one born every minute._

My new sand arrived today with FedEx. It has been my experience that substrate selection is quite important for the creation of a nice display, and I have observed that it is often overlooked. Since it is shaded by the emergent vegetation it is very important for the floor of a riparium composition to have brightly-colored substrates and bright green plants so that the underwater area will not appear too dark in comparison to the above water portion. I found these two light-colored ADA products for sale online. The idea of purchasing bags of sand for more than a few pennies seems funny. Anyway I wanted to try out some new material so I ordered these two bags. 

This is the coarser-grained material, "Branco Forest Sand"...










I like the looks of this stuff. 

I also got a bag of "Nile Sand"...










I was less impressed with this material. It looks about the same as the bagged construction sand that I have acquired locally. I will have to screen it because it contains many fines. I don't like fines in my aquarium sand because it is so easy to pick them up with the glass scraper and then scratch the glass. 

I will screen the Nile Sand and then mix these two for a natural texture substrate.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

So you're calling yourself a sucker?  Personally I like the texture of that branco "sand" Nile sand was ADAs original sand, I think.
I'm sure that you could find someone to buy what's left over from the screening, but IMO I think that with the courser sound mixed in, the fines will go to the bottom and you won't have to worry about them getting caught in your mag float and scratching the glass


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

hydrophyte said:


> In my opinion the golden section looks more natural. When areas are divided into thirds it really looks to my eye as though sliced up by a human, but the golden section has a more natural appearance.
> 
> It looks to me like the tree is right on the golden section, a little more than 1/3 from the right.


I figured it wouldn't hurt to display the difference for folks to see. 
Guides placed in photoshop at the rule of thirds spots. 
One extra guide, the left of the two close together, for the golden ratio spot.









Original:









Cropped off the right to place the tree at rule of thirds spot:









_And now back to your regularly scheduled programming..._ sorry for the thread derailing.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey *maclellan* thanks for doing that. That illustrates the difference really well.



clwatkins10 said:


> So you're calling yourself a sucker?  Personally I like the texture of that branco "sand" Nile sand was ADAs original sand, I think.
> I'm sure that you could find someone to buy what's left over from the screening, but IMO I think that with the courser sound mixed in, the fines will go to the bottom and you won't have to worry about them getting caught in your mag float and scratching the glass


Like I said I already have some stuff very similar to the Nile Sand. I might have just gotten two bags of the Branco, then mixed with pool filter sand. It should all look good anyway. I have a few more pictures to post of this just need to format for Web.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I must have really been in love with my new sand, because I took even more pictures--had to have been the mesmerizing silver bags.

ADA Forest Sand "Branco"










ADA Nile Sand


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The 56 gallon column tank is not going to be available for me, without paying PetSmart $300 for their "kit". My best bet was a LFS that really tries to help you - I had them search all of their vendors, and not one could supply that size. But, I can get the 65 gallon AllGlass (Aqueon) tank for $173, special ordered - more than I want to pay, but they didn't ask me how to price it, so my "wants" aren't relevant. Getting close to decision time!

Maybe you should put that 56 gallon tank up on blocks, keep it in the garage for 10 years, and it will be worth a bundle!


----------



## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

I really like the look of that Nile sand. You say that this is similar to something that's available in hardware stores? I'm thinking of using something like that for a future Discus tank and would prefer to avoid ADA prices.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The ADA Nile sand looks almost exactly like my pool filter sand, and I would bet that a chemist couldn't tell the difference if he didn't see the bag or the bill. The Forest Sand looks different, larger particle size, but is it anything but larger particle ordinary quartz sand? Photos don't provide enough information to answer that.


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Hoppy said:


> The ADA Nile sand looks almost exactly like my pool filter sand.


+1, and I love PFS!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I added some sand to the tank to start it cycling. Here is some of the Branco Forest Sand.










I added a pinch of fish food to the bottom of each of these snap-top dishes. After pouring in the sand I then squeezed the mulm from a dirty sponge filter in one of my livebearer breeding tanks. 










Keeping the sand in those containers will facilitate tear down and set up when I move the tank into its permanent spot.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Good thinking to cycle the sand that way!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah well it might not cycle quite the same because the sand probably not oxygenated so well in those plastic dishes, but it will have a start anyway.

Hey I planted that needle-leaf onto a a couple of Trellis Rafts I should get some shots of that later on too.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> Hey I planted that needle-leaf onto a a couple of Trellis Rafts I should get some shots of that later on too.


Did any of the small stems of lawn marsh penneywort make it? They convert in about a week. Even if there are no leaves on the stem, they will grow back fast. I've got a little bit thats starting to carpet in my 44 gallon viv.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I did see those. I'll have to figure out where to put them. I still need to plant the _Anubias_ too.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> I did see those. I'll have to figure out where to put them. I still need to plant the _Anubias_ too.


I think that it would look cool along the edge of the raft, growing out over the water, but that's just me


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey so what do you guys think of my idea of using zebra stone with manzanita? I wonder if it will look right? I have noticed that as manzanita darkens underwater it can become difficult to see so it might just muddy the appearance of the rockscape. Zebra stone also concerns me because I fear it might not be so effective with the algae patina that usually forms on rocks, and which looks good with most other kinds of stones. Am I correct that zebra stone will have best appearance if clear of algae, or nearly so?

Here is a shot from the journal thread that *DUHK* just started.



DUHK said:


>


How would that be with manzanita too? One thing I see is that the zebra stone could be a pretty cool compliment with the _Alocasia_ 'Polly' that will be the centerpiece of this composition.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

A year or so ago I found some granite at a landscape rock yard, that looked similar to the stone you are asking about. I used it in a couple of aquascapes, and, as you expected, the biofilm and algae soon dimmed the contrasting colors considerably. Trying to keep the stones clean so I could keep the same arrangement was more trouble than I wanted to take, so I soon removed them, both times. Biofilm buildup on hardscape seems to be inevitable, and it will always "dim" the appearance of the hardscape.

The round river stones you have been using have the advantage of being able to be turned over to expose clean surfaces, but any shaped rocks won't have that attribute, in my opinion.

Some people only intend their aquascapes to last for a few months, then they redo them or start over with new ideas. For that approach the zebra rocks would work great. But, given the relatively leisurely growth pace of the emersed plants in the riparium, I wonder if most people wouldn't want their aquascape to last a lot longer, still looking fresh.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah I will probably opt for manzanita with plants and no rocks. Maybe I will try a few small rounded stones in the foreground. I would just try out the zebra stone, but it is I think $.79/lb at the LFS and with several large rocks that would be a big commitment.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Um....How did i miss this. I like the stone idea (I know this is what you want to do too judging by your posts. I don't know how exactly to gauge how it would look with your setup because I haven't seen it. All the more reason to do it, right.

So cool, you nailed it on your last scape and suprised me so I am so impressed. Makes me want to drain half of one of my tanks. I have a little 15 gallon pot outside to keep my emmersed side happy for now.


----------



## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

The zebra stone looks beautiful if the stripes are utilized properly. As far as algae is concerned i guess both wood and stone needs to be kept clean so that their natural color and texture are not covered by algae or biofilm.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I haven't made any new headway with this tank, but I do have a plant update. The African mask plant (_Alocasia amazonica_) is growing really well. Most of these leaves are new.










Although this is is quite a popular plant, I have encountered only scant references to growing it in pond marginal conditions with saturated media, even though it can grow well this way. Most of the descriptions that I have found indicate that it prefers "moist but well-drained" substrate conditions. In this setup it is thriving in a riparium planter submerged almost all the way to the plant's crown. It has great root development.










What a fun surprise! I acquired this plant at Home Depot for $4 or so.


----------



## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

Cool looking plant! I've never seen that before and really like that unusual leaf shape.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That plant is pretty easy to find and I was surprised at how well it grew in there--I didn't do anything special for it.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I saw these at HD a couple of days ago, and was tempted, but I think I'm going to try to stick with mostly smaller leaf plants. With the big leaf plants like that one do you expect them to outgrow the riparium planters? I realize that most plants eventually outgrow whatever size planter you use, but I want mine to last at least a year.

Have you given much thought to developing a planter that floats? One that mid-size plants could be planted in, and not attached to the tank wall? Rafts serve that purpose, but really do send out a lot of roots into the tank water. My Hemigraphis "Red Equator" now has a mass of roots maybe 6 inches diameter. This is clearly not a "plant it and forget it" hobby.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I suspect that this one is _A. amazonica_ 'Polly', which seems to be the most popular cultivar. This one is only supposed to grow to 12-18". This specimen has actually has gotten to be pretty tall for this tank--it almost reaches the top--but I am going to see if it will sill be OK with the planter hung a little bit lower so that the surface of the gravel is a few inches below.

It is big and coarse, but I think that it will work well as a centerpiece among finer foliage. I think that I will use _Acorus _and small peace lilies as most of the background for this tank.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I ran into an interesting discussion about the African mask plant (_Alocasia amazonica_). Apparently it is not a species, but a hydrid, and it's not from Africa, or the Amazon River area either.

http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=236102#post236102







*


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> I ran into an interesting discussion about the African mask plant (_Alocasia amazonica_). Apparently it is not a species, but a hydrid, and it's not from Africa, or the Amazon River area either.
> 
> http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=236102#post236102
> 
> ...


That is a very interesting thread, and it reminds me of a lot of other "historical" stuff from other fields. History truly is what the "winners" say it is. But, that is still a very attractive plant, by any name or parentage.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah that is a real good plant. I hope that I can fit it into a scape sometime soon. I need to get back to this project in the 56 Column--just have to make some room for it.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I am going to get back to work on this project. Now that we are out of our winter deep freeze I can work on the stand for this tank again. I need to finish the sanding outside.

I've just been using the tank as a growout/storage area all along.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

There should be a much better selection of possibly suitable plants in the nurseries soon too. I am thinking of visiting a few today to see if anyone has caladiums, or any other interesting plants.


----------



## benon (Feb 18, 2010)

*mini java fern*

Have you considered mini java fern?

I have some in my planted 20-high, and the leaves remain about 3 inches long, half an inch (at most) in width.

I also have one that I'm attempting to grow emmersed in my 20-gallon long. So far it's not dying off, and I have a mist king on the way as well.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I think I am going to resurrect this project. I still have the tank, which is temporarily housing my blue tilapia (_Oreochromis aureus_) while I work on re-homing it. 

I am going to focus on pulling together larger crypts and other more unusual aroids. I have a division from an awesome aquatic aroid, _Lagenadra meeboldii_, on the way via the sale in this SNS listing... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/122222-hard-find-lagennandra-meeboldii.html

I can't wait to see that plant. I hope that it will make it here OK through the cold weather. If I can keep it going it will be an excellent centerpiece subject for this setup.

I hope to post more soon.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Cool! I have not any experience with _Cryptocornes_. Do they melt even when grown emersed?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey Jake. It seems that crypts are somewhat less likely to melt when grow emersed...the leaves are tougher...maybe that's why(?). Most of the crypts that I have tried required high humidity (i.e., a closed-top riparium setup) to grow right. The only one that I know about that can grow well in an open-top tank is _C. ciliata_.

Just tonight I got the _Lagenadra meeboldii_ that *ricoishere* sent. Wow! What an amazing plant. I guess that he had trouble selling off the divisions from his plant. Trust me people you missed out because this plant is amazing. I am going to pot it up in a riparium planter tonight. I plan for it to work like a centerpiece in this tank.

This setup might end up at a local science museum where I was invited to put together a riparium display. I am still debating though. I would rather have that awesome _Lagenandra _here in my house.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I am considering a _Steatocranus_ as the main fish in this setup. I wonder if I could hope to find one or two of them somewhere(?).

*Aquarticles: Steatocranus casuaris*

I saw a couple different species at the ACA convention and they were pretty cool little fish.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I still haven't done anything new with this tank and I'm just using for growout/storage.

However, just today I noticed a devloping spathe on the _Anubias afzelii_ that I have going in here. This one has never bloomed for me. If the spathe develops right I will post a picture. I am interested to see what it looks like.


----------



## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Very cool!

Steatocranus casuaris looks like a black frontosa, love it!


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

_Anubias afzelii_? I will have to look that species up! I have never heard of it. Hope it blooms correctly as I would really like to see some photos of it.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I just have to keep an eye on it and check it every day to make sure I don't miss it.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> I just have to keep an eye on it and check it every day to make sure I don't miss it.


I did that with one of my _Spathiphyllum_ peace lilies. Not fun.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Whoops I messed getting a picture of that _Anubias afzelii_ spathe. I thought I might I have been so busy around here. The spathe wasn't really all that special it just looked like a more slender _A. barteri_ spathe. The _A. hastifolia_ was the one with the real impressive spathe.


----------



## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

let's see a fts already  you're getting us anxious. I love the fact that you mixed in both gravels. I would of done the same. Have you tried xingu by chance? it's really nice


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This tank doesn't look like anything right now. I am just using it for growout/storage and it is stuffed full of plants. There are some pretty nice plants in there.

Now I see that the A. afzelii has another new spathe developing. I will have to try to be ready with the camera for this one.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I am going to make a push to set up this tank for real. It has several real nice plants in it but everything needs more attention.

Here is an old picture.










It will look a lot like this as I start getting it set up, except that I will have some more interesting plants in there.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well I finally got back to work on this thing tonight. I had to move some stuff around to make room. 

I am trying a gravel substrate that I haven't used much before, Turface. It might look good or that orange color might start to bug me.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I am filling this one up a bit more than 1/3 full. I need to get a black background on there to obscure the riparium planters too. I might just cover up the background for the underwater portion and see how that looks. I need to find my can of black paint. 








[/QUOTE]

Stay tuned! I have some awesome plants to put in here.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well I have this thing more or less planted. I have quite a few different plants to choose from and this tank only has 30" of width for planters, so I have more decisions to make. Some of my favorite plants include various crypts, but most of them that I have look pretty ratty right now. I'll refertilize them, trim back most of the leaves and then wait for them to grow in full again. It's gonna take a little while.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey I finally got a picture update.










There are several real nice plants in there.

I need to think about a hardscape some more. That rock is a piece of limestone I stuck in there just to get an idea of how it would look. I can get more of that same kind of stone.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here quick is these plants labelled & IDd...










I have some of my favorite plants in here.


*A.* a NOID (??) crypt sort of similar to _Crypt. wendtii_ 'Mi Oya', but that grows especially nice emersed
*B.* _Anubias barteri_ 'Narrow Leaf' (I think ???) on a trellis raft
*C.* leather fern
*D.* _Lagenandra meeboldi_ 'Pink' - this plant is really great. It will probably gorw up into a really big impressive thing.
*E.* _Pilea grandifolia_ - all-purpose midground plant for growing on trellis raft 
*F.* _Anubias afzelli_
*G.* _Spathiphyllum_ 'Golden Glow' - a peace lily that is lime green and makes nice contrast against darker green plants
*H.* _Woodwardia_ sp. "aqua fern" - this is a new one, so far growign well
*I.* _Crypt. cordata_
*J.* NOID _Schismatoglottis_ - this is one of my favorite plants


----------



## WeedCali (Jun 21, 2010)

Comin along nicely!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks. I might not have any more updates anytime real soon, although I might work on that hardscape some. I want to have the underwater area prettty open but with some real nice fish.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm just keeping this _Cryptoheros cutteri_ in this tank for the time being. He seems to like it in there.










This sure is a pretty fish. Eventually I'm going to find another spot for this fish and replace it with some kind of West Africa cichlid.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I added some annual killies that I bought on a whim (you shouldn't do that with fish!) at the fish auction Saturday and added them here. They are very pretty but just hid right away. I think maybe they did not like the cichlid. Now they are slowly starting to come out in the open and I need to get some pictures fo them because they are very pretty.


----------



## Rion (Dec 29, 2006)

What species/locations of annual killis did you get?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

You know I went and threw out the bag. The ID was barely legible anyway. I thought I would just shoot some pictures of them and ask around.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I got more of a complete hardscape into here and it is looking better. The plants are growing in nice too and I have had good results with a couple of those new ones. I will try to post a picture soon here is that one from a few weeks ago...



hydrophyte said:


>


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

...oh and I remembered that this was another tank that I wondered about doing with a *shadowbox* background. I know somebody who might be willing to let me use pictures of a real West Africa rainforest for that. Of course for a shadowbox background to look like much I would need to maintain the negative space in the background and not let the plants grow too much bigger than they are now.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I really want to figure out hte fish stocking for this setup. I think that I should get something weird to use as a centerpiece fish to go along with the weird plants.

What do you all think about a mormyrid? I have never kept them and the Internet says that they can be tricky. There is an LFS that have two of them. They look just like the one that shows up the most when you search, _Gnathonemus petersii_. The fish in the store were about 4" long, but supposedly this fish gets big (>12") so it's probably not the best choice. I was reading about other species that only grow to 6" or so. I wonder if I could track one down.

Another really cool West Africa choice would be a buffalo head cichlid, _Steatocranus casuarius_. This is another fish that would get too beefy for this tank with only ~20 gallons of water in it, but maybe I can find another _Steatocranus_ sp. that woudl be smaller(??).


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's another cool idea that somebody gave me...

_Microctenopoma ansorgii_


----------



## trackhazard (Aug 24, 2006)

Ctenopomas and microctenopomas are awesome fish.

One of my favorites was a Ctenopoma acutirostre but that might get a little bigger than 20 gals can handle. But then, in the 2 years I had mine, it only grew about 2 inches from 1.5" when I got it and it had definitely slowed down its growth.

-Charlie


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah _Ctenopoma acutirostre _is also a real cool fish, but I would like to try to use something more active while the lights are on and I also want to be able to combine a smaller shoaling fish. It sounds as though the _Microctenopoma_ are also shy and retiring.


----------



## trackhazard (Aug 24, 2006)

I think most ctenopomas will be mostly because of the way they hunt in the wild.

I will say that my leopard eventually found itself pretty comfortable somewhat in the open. It made its home near a couple rocks and would drift pretty far out. also, it would stick its nose to the glass whenever I got near as I think it thought it was feeding time.

-Charlie


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I wonder where I could find one(?). I imagine that a _Ctenopoma acutirostre_ would make a meal of any fisht that would fit in its mouth.


----------



## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Petsmart has them this time of year. No idea why...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm gravitating more toward the idea of the _Steatocranus_. CichlidStation.com has two different species...

http://www.cichlidstation.com/servlet/the-Fish-cln-Cichlids%2C-African-cln-West-African/Categories


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

_Finally_ last night I scored a single _Steatocranus casuarius_ cheap on AquaBid.com. I had been checking there every day. 

I might also combine that fish with the _Eutropiellus buffei _that the same seller is offering.

...and, the same seller also has African butterfly fish. I wonder how well those would get along with the _Steatocranus_(?????).


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey I went for the 6 buffei cats and the single buffalo head!

They should be here around Wednesday of next week. I gotta work on setting up this tank better!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

...fish might get here today...hope they can make it alive through this heat!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey the fish arrived today 100% alive. I might post up some pictures later on. Both inds are really cool.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> Hey the fish arrived today 100% alive. I might post up some pictures later on. Both inds are really cool.


Awesome! It has been wicked hot up here in Green Bay as well. Not fun.

Oh, and where are the pictures???


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yep the buffalo head cichlid is especially cool. It has a lot of personality which is just what I read about them.


----------



## luke20037 (Jan 24, 2010)

looking forward to see some pics! wish it was hot here, its always raining in england!!!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

We could use some rain here.

I hope to post some pictures, but I have alot of catching up to do with other stuff first.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey look at this this is fun stuff...


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

What is that? Bagged water? :hihi:


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Bags of ice...I use old fish bags to freeze ice for making Old Fashioneds.

No, wait, I'm just kidding.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here is a quick view of the _Steatocranus_...










This fish really is engaging and with lots of personality just like the descriptions I read. They don't have swim bladders and this fish sinks like a stone when it stops swimming.


----------



## 10gallonplanted (Oct 31, 2010)

I thought they had smaller than normal swim bladders, but I could be mistaken.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That might be right, but this fish really does sink when he stops swimming.


----------



## 10gallonplanted (Oct 31, 2010)

Lol that has to be funny to watch.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Also very cool here are the _Pareutropius buffei_.










These fish have a unique way of swimming. I gotta get video of this tank!


----------



## luke20037 (Jan 24, 2010)

looking good!


----------



## shane3fan (Nov 2, 2009)

oooh-African glass cats---I dig those and have a tank with their name on it already. As soon as the electrician wires my fish room I will get started on their tank.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yep they are really cool fish. It would have been nice to get a group fo something more like 10 but they look happy enough in this little crowd of 6.


----------



## 10gallonplanted (Oct 31, 2010)

Oh sweet fish, remind me of glass cats but not clear.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

They have really fun behavior. When I drop food into the tank it takes about a minute for them to catch the scent but when they do they dart like crazy all over the place.

I am still working on the new stand for this tank. When I have ti in place I can work on getting everything photo-ready.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

_Maybe_ there is room for one more fish in here.

Look at this cool syno that I just ran into...

_Synodonits flavitaeniatus_ small

...just twenty bucks from that vendor.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Tonight I got the new stand for this tank almost all put together. Tomorrow I can move the tank into its new more permanent spot.


----------



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I cant wait to see this all set up! This is going to be super cool in a unique way!!!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I hope so.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I just gott make one more trip to the hardware store and then I can finish putting this stand together...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

No stand yet...hopefull tomorrow I can make it over to Ace to get those last pieces of hardware.

I have a couple more new plants that I am going to try in here. This is a _Cyperus helferi_ that I just repotted...










I'll have to see about this one. It grows so slow and it might look spindly in the tank. Maybe if I shine some brighter light on it I can get it to grow faster.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This is the other new plant that I got for this setup, _Caladium bicolor_.










Unlike the _Caladium_ that you buy as garden plants, which are all hybrids, this is a trues species plant. I understand that it grows in swampy areas in nature and if you keep it warm it does not ever need a dry dormancy, unlike the garden varieties. If it grows well I am going to use it as the centerpiece in this setup.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Very cool setup these ripariums


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

THanks again 2in10.

These ripariums are pretty easy to put together and there are a zillion really cool plants that grow well in them. And fish like them too.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Question for you Devin... I need to know: Where do you research all these plants? And then find them? I am rather horrible (as you have probably noticed) at finding new riparium suitable plant specimens.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

RipariumGuy said:


> Question for you Devin... I need to know: Where do you research all these plants? And then find them? I am rather horrible (as you have probably noticed) at finding new riparium suitable plant specimens.




I have a lot of the best riparium plants right here for sale. I have been trying to explain this!!!! 

The best way to get a good riparium planting going is to start with the "proven" species & varities that grow vigourously in ripariums and with the right shapes/sizes for riparium scaping, namely...


peace lilies (_Spathiphyllum_)
umbrella sedges (_Cyperus_)
Japanese sweetflag (_Acorus gramineus_)
_Pilea_
certain emersed aquarium stems (especially _Bacopa_ and _Hygrophila_)
mangrove trees (especially _Avicennia germinans_)

With a good established background and midground of riparium plants then one can start to include some of the more interesting "collector" plants as accents and centerpieces. I think I have figured out quite a few good ones and I can make lots of suggestions. I spend a lot of time looking around on the Internet and reading about different kinds of plants. I have also tried out many and killed off a fair number while also finding some that grow very well.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

How well do the suction cups hold on the plant cups? Those are very cool looking actually.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Those suction cups hold very well. They are made of a softer vinyl plastic and they last a lot longer than the plastic suctin cups that are used with many other aquarium accessories. 

However for a good suction seal it is important to keep the glass and the suction cup surface clean of algae and chalk line. You also have to keep roots out of the way as you position the planter because they will also break the seal.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Good info thanks. I could see using them in my current planted tank for some plants that are better suited to bog conditions. Have you tried and Hemigraphis species for the riparium?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I have tried _Hemigraphis_ in ripariums, but it's not a favorite plant. It tends to grow leggy for me. There are other plants that are better choices.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Good to know thanks


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

_Pilea_ are nice pants that are about the same shape as _Hemigraphis_ but they grow better in ripariums. Aluminum plant (_P. cardierei_) is one of the best midground plants for growing on the trellis rafts.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Awesome info, I really like the looks of the Aluminum plant.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah that's a good one. It works well in both high-humidity and open-top setups.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

2in10 said:


> Awesome info, I really like the looks of the Aluminum plant.


You'll love it eve more when you have it and realize how fast it grows... So many trimmings!?!


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

RipariumGuy said:


> You'll love it eve more when you have it and realize how fast it grows... So many trimmings!?!


LOL:fish1:


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Another fun thing about ripariums is that there are certain plants that take a while to devlop and are fun to grow as long-term projects. My black mangrove trees have been going in their planters for a couple of years now and just a few months ago started to develop these fascinating pneumatophores that grew right out of the planters.


----------



## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm surprised it took me so long to come across this thread. I think it's awesome that you're growing spaths on the riparium trellises.

A few questions:

What are the water parameters?

Where did you manage to find lagenandra meeboldi?

What is the difference between a paludarium and a riparium?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

snausage said:


> I'm surprised it took me so long to come across this thread. I think it's awesome that you're growing spaths on the riparium trellises.


Do you mean "_Spahtiphyllum_"? Those are actiually best grown in the hanging planters, not the trellis rafts.



> A few questions:
> 
> What are the water parameters?


I have hard water here with high pH (~7.8). I just use straight conditioned tapwater. Riparium plants are forgiving of water parameters and are less demanding of careful fertilizaiton too.



> Where did you manage to find lagenandra meeboldi?


I bought that from somebody. Now I can't remember who it was(???). He was actually having trouble selling off his big beautiful plants, which was hard to believe. Nowadays it seems the real small plants for nano setups are ht emost popular. 


> What is the difference between a paludarium and a riparium?


Paludariums use a built-up terrestrial are to support the abovewater plants, but ripariums use the hanging and floating planters. You can keep amphibious animals like frogs and turtles in a paludarium, but ripariums are mainly for fish and plants; there is no real land area in a riparium.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I think it would make an interesting project with a large tank to have a riparium area and a paludarium area. You would be able to have a few varieties of terrestrial and bog plants in the same tank.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

You could do that, although one of the advantages of ripariums is that you don't have to build up a land area to grow the plants above water, so it would sort of defeat the purpose. 

This could be an option though if you wanted to have an area for amphibious animals to use. You could still keep most of the plants in the riparium planters, which is an easier way to manage them.


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

I've been spending huge amounts of time at cichlid sites, learning about the 3D backgrounds they make. Some are tacky, but some are astounding. The process is simple enough. I have it in the back of my mind to make a tank into a paludarium/riparium hybrid. My idea is to do this with a tank in my bedroom - one I can have backed by a wall. The wall will help support/hide the construction of the above water areas. The 3D background can cover the entire back wall of the tank & extend up & out. It would then hide the filtration/heater/etc. The riparium plants can be floating/suction cupped at the waterline where the 3D background can be made with smooth areas, and the 3D background can get more craggy as it rises above that point. Making craggy pockets that plants can be set into with regular potting soil. I'm thinking about using my 40b for this - since it's not tall (like a 55) I have the room above it for potted plants. It could end up being a living 6 - 7 foot free-standing wall (not 6 - 7 feet at the top of the 3D background, but at the tops of the plants)


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> You could do that, although one of the advantages of ripariums is that you don't have to build up a land area to grow the plants above water, so it would sort of defeat the purpose.
> 
> This could be an option though if you wanted to have an area for amphibious animals to use. You could still keep most of the plants in the riparium planters, which is an easier way to manage them.


That is what I was thinking. Definitely would want a very large tank. I was also thinking of putting a sword plant in the middle of the open water section that would grow the leaves above water level.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

driftwoodhunter said:


> I've been spending huge amounts of time at cichlid sites, learning about the 3D backgrounds they make. Some are tacky, but some are astounding. The process is simple enough. I have it in the back of my mind to make a tank into a paludarium/riparium hybrid. My idea is to do this with a tank in my bedroom - one I can have backed by a wall. The wall will help support/hide the construction of the above water areas. The 3D background can cover the entire back wall of the tank & extend up & out. It would then hide the filtration/heater/etc. The riparium plants can be floating/suction cupped at the waterline where the 3D background can be made with smooth areas, and the 3D background can get more craggy as it rises above that point. Making craggy pockets that plants can be set into with regular potting soil. I'm thinking about using my 40b for this - since it's not tall (like a 55) I have the room above it for potted plants. It could end up being a living 6 - 7 foot free-standing wall (not 6 - 7 feet at the top of the 3D background, but at the tops of the plants)


That would be an awesome setup. I could definitely see doing that.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

driftwoodhunter said:


> I've been spending huge amounts of time at cichlid sites, learning about the 3D backgrounds they make. Some are tacky, but some are astounding. The process is simple enough. I have it in the back of my mind to make a tank into a paludarium/riparium hybrid. My idea is to do this with a tank in my bedroom - one I can have backed by a wall. The wall will help support/hide the construction of the above water areas. The 3D background can cover the entire back wall of the tank & extend up & out. It would then hide the filtration/heater/etc. The riparium plants can be floating/suction cupped at the waterline where the 3D background can be made with smooth areas, and the 3D background can get more craggy as it rises above that point. Making craggy pockets that plants can be set into with regular potting soil. I'm thinking about using my 40b for this - since it's not tall (like a 55) I have the room above it for potted plants. It could end up being a living 6 - 7 foot free-standing wall (not 6 - 7 feet at the top of the 3D background, but at the tops of the plants)


I approve! :thumbsup:


Just a quick thought on the planters. You are probably going to need to keep a strip off glass to attach the planters too, as the suction cup really doesn't work its best unless attached to glass. This is assuming you are using suction cup planters, and not the magnetic type.


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

A question on the planters for the riparium plants; do they need to be changed in size to accomodate the plants as they grow in size? I think it would be easy enough to make built-in "cup holder" type projections in the 3D background wall to hold the planters - if they don't get increased in size as the plant grows. For that matter, the "magic" plastic canvas (lol) could be used to make any size/shape planters, incorporated into the construction of the wall. You'd just have to plan it out carefully as they would be permanent.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

driftwoodhunter said:


> A question on the planters for the riparium plants; do they need to be changed in size to accomodate the plants as they grow in size? I think it would be easy enough to make built-in "cup holder" type projections in the 3D background wall to hold the planters - if they don't get increased in size as the plant grows. For that matter, the "magic" plastic canvas (lol) could be used to make any size/shape planters, incorporated into the construction of the wall. You'd just have to plan it out carefully as they would be permanent.


Depends on the plant, but usually no. I tend to plant larger specimens in larger planters and just let them grow in when necessary.

One thing I would mention about permanant planters, would be that it would be a huge pain to rearrange any of the plants. One would have to rip out the plant and then put it through all the stress of replanting it. Just a thought.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

driftwoodhunter said:


> I've been spending huge amounts of time at cichlid sites, learning about the 3D backgrounds they make. Some are tacky, but some are astounding. The process is simple enough. I have it in the back of my mind to make a tank into a paludarium/riparium hybrid. My idea is to do this with a tank in my bedroom - one I can have backed by a wall. The wall will help support/hide the construction of the above water areas. The 3D background can cover the entire back wall of the tank & extend up & out. It would then hide the filtration/heater/etc. The riparium plants can be floating/suction cupped at the waterline where the 3D background can be made with smooth areas, and the 3D background can get more craggy as it rises above that point. Making craggy pockets that plants can be set into with regular potting soil. I'm thinking about using my 40b for this - since it's not tall (like a 55) I have the room above it for potted plants. It could end up being a living 6 - 7 foot free-standing wall (not 6 - 7 feet at the top of the 3D background, but at the tops of the plants)


The riparium planters could be handy for something like this. You could just have the plants growing on the 3D background, but the adantage of the planters would that you would have a real sturdy and movable container for growing some nice big emergent plants that would have their roots below the waterline. Like Jake mentioned the suctions cups won't stick to surfaces with any kind of texture at all, but there are a couple of other ways of attaching the planters: 1. magnets 2. mushroom-head snap fastener. If you want to use riparium planters you might do as well to just have the 3D background for the abovewater area. Riparium plants will shade the back wall so you wouldn't see the background in that area anyway. 

If you want to combine riparium plants into a project like this I would suggest including some of the larger and and really cool collector riparium plants (e.g., palms, _Cyrtosperma_, mangrove trees, _Pandanus_). 

I do not find it necessary to repot riparium plants very often. You can grow a plant up pretty big even in the "Small" planter. I need to change the name of that model because many seem to think that it is for growing small plants. I have grown _Cyperus_ and other plants to three feet tall in the "Small".


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I just came from the hardware store so now I can finish putting this stand together...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well I got the stand all put together last night. I used a sort of different kind of construction for the stand. This is a look from the bottom all assembled except for the top...










This might be a pretty good looking open stand. I started a thread in the DIY sub-forum with some quick explanation of how I made it...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/145433-new-boneheaded-stand-design.html#post1481192

Now I need to go drain that tank, unhook the plants, catch the fish and move everything upstairs.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here are a few more pictures showing that stand cosntruction detail.

Here is the stand upsdie-down. These cross-braces support the bottom shelf and basically hold the whole thing together.










Bolt assembly detail...I can't remember what that little threaded piece is called(??)...










These angle brackets hold the top down, but don't give the stand much rigidity at all...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

No kidding now I really am gonna go and drain that tank and move it up here.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well now it's all set up.

Now that I have it together I don't like so much the proportions of the stand. I made it too tall...32". It is an inch shorter than the other one in the same room where I have the 50G, but since it's also more narrow it looks very tall and erect. 

Well I can take the stand apart again cut it down I suppose without too much trouble, but I'm not going to do that any time soon.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Very good looking design. How stable is it with the tank on there?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks. It does look pretty good all set up, although like I said I wish that I had made it a bit shorter.

It's real sturdy.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's the tank all in place. Like I mentioned the stand is too tall and the proportions are wrong. It needs to be about 4" shorter.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This is the coolest plant that I am using in this setup and it is probably the most attractive specimen of any of my plants. It is _Schismatoglottis_ 'Frosty Kiss' and it has grown really well in this riparium planter. Here I am holding it in front of the planting in my 50G. 










This is such a great plant. It took a while to grow up big like this.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

That is gorgeous, definitely a centerpiece plant


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks. Yes it is a fantastic plant and definitely one of my favorites.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This picture shows the stand construction a little better...










I need to refinish our living room floor.

And here's the tank with water. You can see a little killi (lost the species name) swimming around up there up front...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's a quick view of the setup with planting from the side.










I need to get a hardscape into the underwater portion. The fish are all hiding back underneath the plants because there is no cover for them up in the front.


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

That's looking so nice! I may have missed it, but how tall is the actual tank? I noticed the plants are totally within the closed atmosphere of the tank with it's glass top, but if you don't use plants preferring high humidity, can't it be an open top setup?

I'm working at switching two rooms around - the bedroom & the studio. It's a PITA! lol But this is an energy booster, because I want to set the 40b up in my bedroom in this manner. Following this thread is motivating ; )
~ Cin ~


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks so much. This tank is 24" tall by 30" wide by 18" deep. There are several plants inside that require moist air (_Anubias, Cryptocoryne, Lagenandra_) and that is why I set this one up as a high-humidity riparium. 

There are many other kinds of ripairum plants that will grow just fine right out the top of the tank in normal household humidity levels. A 40B is an especially nice shape for a riparium with mangrove trees. Here is the one that I had set up a little while ago. The tank was filled all the way up to the top...


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Yea, I've been eyeing that fern you sell - lol.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I still have a couple of them here. That is a nice plant to grow with mangrove trees because it grows very fast and will fill in while the slower-growing mangrove trees develop.


----------



## razalas5 (Feb 1, 2011)

Your tanks are really nice.
If I ever start a riparium, I'm using your tanks as inspiration, lol.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey thanks razalas5. Just let me know if you might ever like to try a setup I ahve used a lot of different palnts and I can offer some suggestions. 

Hey here's another shot closer up of the planting in this tank...


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Beautiful setup, what fish are you looking to put in there?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks I'll have more pictures on the way as I work on it more. Most of the fish are already in there. I have a group of six buffei catfish, a _Steatocranus cassuarinus_ and some sort of killi. There is roomstill for one more kind of fish.


----------



## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

What are those lime green crimped looking plants, and how big to they get (can they tolerate pruning?) Thanks!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That plant is _Pilea grandifolia_. It grows to about 14" tall. You can prune it all you want and the cuttings are easy to root. It is my favorite plant for growing on the riparium trellis rafts.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I have made a discovery!

The pleated foliage of some of these *semi-aquatic palms* that I have been trying out looks really cool in combination with the coarse leaves of _Anubias_ and other aroids. I am going ot work on getting more of thes palms that I already have going in planters into this tank.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

There's still room for one more medium-size fish in here, or a shoal of a small species.

There are currently auctions for quite a few different _Aphyosemion_ killis on AquaBid.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well I have decided to take this thing apart again and shorten the stand by about 4". What a pain! This will take several days. I'll have to refinish the plywood where I make the cuts.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> Well I have decided to take this thing apart again and shorten the stand by about 4". What a pain! This will take several days. I'll have to refinish the plywood where I make the cuts.


Awwww.... Well, make it snappy. I want to see this thing up and running again! :smile:


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yes I get so frustrated with dealys but I need to get this set up right. 

The plants and fish are all looking great.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm still working on the underwater area, but here's a quick shot of the riparium plants.










I have an EcoXotic LED strip (can't remember the model name??) on the left side of the tank. It creates a wonderful shimmer in the water. 

I just put that white-variegated _Aglaonema_ Chinese evergreen in there. It looks very nice, but it seems a bit too big and showy in the whole layout. It might start looking smarter as the other plants grow in some more.

That _Aglaonema_ is _not_ a true semi-aquatic plant: the wild ancestor plant grows in upland forests in Southeast Asia. However, I had it rooting as a cutting from a houseplant and it grew many new healthy roots right in the water. I hope that it can adapt to being in a riparium. I filled the planter with hydroton so that there would be water diffusion around the roots. I will see how it goes.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Looking great, it will be interesting to see once the rest of the plants fill in.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I hope to get the stand fixed and everything all put back together by Monday. That's my goal anyway.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well I just emptied the tank, pulled the stand out, took the stand apart, put the tank back in the corner and then filled it back up. Now the tank is sitting right on the floor...very classy.

I need to hurry up and do that stand modification and get it set up again.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

The stand is 4" shorter and the plywood is all re-finished. Now I just have to put it all back together.

When seeting up the tank on the floor I hadn't thought about what a poor siphon I would get with only 8" of drop. I will have to bail most of the water out of the tank. Maybe I can find a powerheard around somewhere to use with a hose(?).


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

A return pump of some kind would be the way to go.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yep I have a powerhead somewhere downstairs that I can use.


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Do you any know papyrus that would get to around only 1' in height? I have one in a container with its tubers submerged and in indirect sun and it seems to be in a vertical stasis. New leaves happen all the time but it just doesn't get tall. Maybe I could send you a section to see if it's just me or if it's a "Dwarf, dwarf papyrus"


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks good. I have made the mistake you did many times, filling a tank for some reason outside on the ground and then realizing I can't siphon. 

I know I haven't commented on your threads in awhile, but I have been watching. I am impressed as usual with your setup and attention to detail on the plants but I am really liking your DIY/non aquarium specific stuff. I like the round stones you have used in the past but I really want to see your underwater area when you are done with a new twist.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Now I got the tank back on the stand and it's filling slow again with this little submersible pump that I found.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Jeffww said:


> Do you any know papyrus that would get to around only 1' in height? I have one in a container with its tubers submerged and in indirect sun and it seems to be in a vertical stasis. New leaves happen all the time but it just doesn't get tall. Maybe I could send you a section to see if it's just me or if it's a "Dwarf, dwarf papyrus"



The one that I know that stays the shortest is _C. albostriatus_, but it doesn't grow so vigorously in a riparium. I think that it prefers a somewhat drier media. 

_Cyperus_ 'Baby Tut' only grows about 1' tall when you grow it outdoors in the sun, but under fluorescents it gets a lot taller, about 30".



talontsiawd said:


> Looks good. I have made the mistake you did many times, filling a tank for some reason outside on the ground and then realizing I can't siphon.
> 
> I know I haven't commented on your threads in awhile, but I have been watching. I am impressed as usual with your setup and attention to detail on the plants but I am really liking your DIY/non aquarium specific stuff. I like the round stones you have used in the past but I really want to see your underwater area when you are done with a new twist.


Thanks! I hope to get some updated pictures fo this 56G up soon. I have some really great riparium plants and fish in there too.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's the tank sitting right on the floor.










The tank is all set up now and I have a couple of FTS here I just need to format them and post them up.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Here's the tank sitting right on the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a good position for practicing low crawls to look at the tank.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

It was only temporary.

Here is a quick FTS with a quick hardscape underwater...


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I really like that, awesome look, the tank lends itself nicely for a riparium, vivarium or paludarium set up.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's the underwater area quic with plants.










I really like that holy liestone rock.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm posting these up as I get them formatted.

Here's everything with plants underwater too.










The fish are still all hiding in the background. I hope I will start to see them more.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Very beautiful and peaceful feeling, hope the fish come out, too. I would like to see how they add to the scene.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks so much! It took me a while to pull it together but now it's looking pretty good.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This is my favorite view of this planting. The plants are settling in nice.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

That looks fantastic Devin! I was a little doubtful about your hardscape at first, but the swords really make it work. I really like all the different plants you have going too. They give the tank that rainforest feel.

Also, could you I.D. a plant in there for me? It is the larger background plant with the longer dark green leaves. Not alot to go on I know...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

RipariumGuy said:


> That looks fantastic Devin! I was a little doubtful about your hardscape at first, but the swords really make it work. I really like all the different plants you have going too. They give the tank that rainforest feel.
> 
> Also, could you I.D. a plant in there for me? It is the larger background plant with the longer dark green leaves. Not alot to go on I know...


Thanks very much. I really like those rocks. I am going to work on the hardscape layout some more.

I don't know which plant you mean(??). The biggest background plant is the _Aglaonema_, but that one is white-variegated. There are various other things in the background.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm working on ideas for more fish for this setup. As you can see, the cichlid and the catfish are all hiding and out if sight...








Those fish come out into the foreground when the lights are off. I though that they would be less shy when I added to hardscape and plants, but that hasn't been the case.

I wondered about adding Congo tetras, but I think that would be be too much extra fish; they get pretty big. I also considered Norman's lampeyes, which would be really cool, but I want somehting that will photograph better.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Definitely sounds like dither fish are needed. About how much water do you have?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah I don't know if dithers are really going to make those fish come out into the front. I think that they just like to hide in the shadows most of the time. However, if I can add something that will shoal out in the foreground that will help a lot with photography.

I can get good video of those catfish though. Whether or not hte lights are on, when I drop food in the tank they zip all around like crazy.

There is only 20+ gallons of water. I can only fit a few more small fish in there. I can however squeeze more in than you would normally want with that much water because it is a very broad footprint and I do lots of water changes and the plants make excellent biological filtration.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I don't remember a lot of small African fish that are colorful. I know they have tetras and such but few if any are imported.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well I have a lead on some "dwarf" Congos. I don't know how small they will stay necessarily. Regular Congo tetras getting to be 3" or 4" long would definitely be too big. I will research more about these so-called dwarf Congos.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I think I have seen something about them, somewhere around 2" if I remember right.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Here is a link that might provide some help. I haven't looked through it so I can't say how good it is.

http://fish.mongabay.com/data/ecosystem_index.htm


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> Thanks very much. I really like those rocks. I am going to work on the hardscape layout some more.
> 
> I don't know which plant you mean(??). The biggest background plant is the _Aglaonema_, but that one is white-variegated. There are various other things in the background.


 
Hmmm... I am not sure what else to go on. It is to the very right of the Algaonema I believe. Dark green foliage. The leaves are narrower, and almost curl at the tip.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That might be the cat palm (_Chamaedorea cataractarum_). I have close up of that plant around here somewhere I will try to dig it up. That's a real good riparium plant that grows great and has a nice shape.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

2in10 said:


> Here is a link that might provide some help. I haven't looked through it so I can't say how good it is.
> 
> http://fish.mongabay.com/data/ecosystem_index.htm


Thanks yes I think I am going to go with the Congo tetras. I think a groupf of about five individuals will still be OK in there.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's what that _C. catractarum_ looks like...


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> Here's what that _C. catractarum_ looks like...


Yep! That is the one! She really is a beauty...



Judging by the title, you are going with an African Congo river theme here?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yep I am more or less shooting for a West Africa theme, but only loosely. The fish so far aare all West Africa, but I have plants from all over the place. Most of the midground riparium plants are _Anubias._


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

...and yes that cat palm is a real good plant. I need to find a good source for (cheap) seedlings so that I can offer them. I have tried growing them from seed but it takes forever.


----------



## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

love the clear planter you used with the hydroton? I believe, wondering if I can find similar cups that are shallow to use as ciclid deterrents =p where did you get your hydroton?if you don't mind me asking, love your tank as usually beautiful choice of plants


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

shrimpNewbie said:


> love the clear planter you used with the hydroton? I believe, wondering if I can find similar cups that are shallow to use as ciclid deterrents =p where did you get your hydroton?if you don't mind me asking, love your tank as usually beautiful choice of plants


How exactly are you going to use it? As a planter? If you use hydroton it is important to put a cap of heaveier/finer gravel on top. If you leave it open hydroton will just float all around in the water.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I don't know if these _Pareutropius buffei_ are goign to work out in here. I really need fish that will be good for picture-taking and these just hide back in the shadows _all the time_ while the lights are on. This is still the only picture that I have of them.










Anybody want to buy them? I have a half-dozen of them and they are real healthy and active, but shy.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm gonna use this setup as the topic for another magazine article. I need to start getting some better pictures to squirrel away. 

I gotta get those Congo tetras in there too. I am leaving the buffei cats in there for now. They might be more outgoing if I add the little group of Congos.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

THis setup is still doing pretty alright. I did some rearranging tonight and I am going to give it the evening for the dust to settle and try to get a picture tomorrow. I never got those Congo tetras in the end, so I stall have mainly fish that hide all the time. It would be nice to get a little group of something that would swim around out front for picture-taking(???).


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I cleaned up this tank tonight and got a quick picture...










I wish I could get the fish to swim out front :angryfire I still haven't tracked down those Congo tetras yet. The _P. buffei_ were actually swimming around when I took this picture, but they move so fast my camera couldn't even see them at this slow shutter speed.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's another quick picture. Like I mentioned I wish I could get the fish up into the frame. I need to get some new fish that won't hide all the time.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Today I got a couple of new pretty cool plants into this setup. I wil try to take pictures tonight after dinner.


----------



## Seedreemer (Sep 28, 2008)

This is really gorgeous even without any fish in view!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks! 

I really gotta a work on changing the fish.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Last night I was up late and I switched almost completely the planting in this setup. I received an order of palms last week that included a bunch or stream or swamp-associated species. I had spent a lot of time researching the habitats of those plants. Most of the plants came in 4" pots and I planted them into riparium planters. Now almost all the background plants in this tank are of various palms. They are pretty cool plants. 

I need to post up some pictures but I keep running out of time.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Still no time for pictures, but I wanted to quick post the list of new plants that I put in here.

These are all palms that might in their natural habitats have associations with swampy, or riparian or streamside (rheophytic) habitats, so they should do well in a riparium. Most of these are not really used in water gardening/ponds in horticulture, so I have used various scientific publications and other sources to select them as riparium candidates.

Here is the list as links to Google images...

Google: _*Iguanura tenuis*_
Google: _*Reinhardtia latisecta*_*
Google: _*Hydriastele rheophytica*_
Google: _*Pinanga disticha*_
Google: _*Licuala malajana*_
Google: _*Ravena hildebrandtii*_*

The two with the asterisks * are plants that I am less sure about as being true water-associated palms. I hope I don't kill 'em.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Now I am working on restocking for this setup too. I have discarded the loose West Africa biotope idea and now I am just trying to put together a good fish display. I think I will unload the _P. buffei_ catfish because they just hide _all_ the time under the riparium plants. However I will definitely hang onto the _Steatocranus_ cichlid because that is a great fish.

I replaced almost all of the plants. Now all of the planters have various of several different rheophytic palms that include some really cool plants. This is part of the reason I decided to ditch the West Africa idea because the palms are from various regions and together not really representative of anyplace.

There is a particular fish vendor that has some nice selections in their catalog. I am leaning toward switching out the _P. buffei_ and using some kind of barb instead. I usually think green tiger barb or cheery barb when barbs are mentioned but there are actually some pretty cool less common barbs out there.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I just rescaped this thing. I'll get pictures for an update when the dust settles.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I think I have made up my mind for restocking...

*Google: Barbus rhomboocellatus*

That should be a brightly-colored, active fish and good for this setup. I had looked at several other different barbs, but a lot of them were fish that grew to 3" or bigger. The _B. rhomboocellatus_ is supposed to grow to just 2" so it's a better size for this tank.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I am going to wait for better light to get the full-tank shot, but here is a quick view down inside. I switched almost all of the background plants that I had in there before in exchange for various swamp and stream-associated palms. These include some really cool plants. These dark green _Licuala paludosa_ are the largest plants in there and they have this great leaf pleating.










Also really cool is this _Iguanura tenuis_. This is a swamp plant from Thailand. It was more expensive and it is rare in cultivation. The new leaves are rounded and have this awesome chestnut coloration.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Haha, always tinkering. Looks great! If you want some colorful fish that don't grow too large and are not shy, check out the smaller Rainbow fish varieties.

Also, adding a dither fish (like some guppies) can help to bring out the main fish if they are easily scared.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks. Yes I need to set it up better so I can get the FTS. 

Rainbows are a great idea. I should look into rainbows too, but I do like these barbs that I have my eye on.

I have several real nice plants in there, but next to that _Iquanura_ probably the coolest is the _Pinanga disticha_. This one is apparently happy in there too and has grown two new leaves. I gotta get a picture of it.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Finally here's a quick FTS...










I could work on the underwater hardscape some more, but I think it's good enough for now. The underwater area will benefit with a few more crypt plants. The main thing I want to do now is order those _Barbus_ and get them in there. 

For better pictures I will also use a different color for the riparium background. Plants really don't look very good against that tan wall.

Several people have asked me about growing those palms if they might get too big to grow in a riparium setup. I do have some observations on that. I have a thread about palms for ripariums in the Plants subforum and I should relate a few things there.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My LFS had some Cherry Barbs with a long wavy tail almost like a fancy guppies, they were different looking, but I needed all female Cherrys to ease tension in the tank. That is a nice looking tank, it's simple and elegant, with a flare of sophistication.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I keep changing my mind but it looks like the _Barbus rhombocellatus_ will be the best choice. They are a bit less intriguing because they look just like gold barbs but they have really cool patternation on their flanks.


----------



## bryfox86 (Apr 6, 2011)

you have inspired me! haha I am putting an above water plant in my 90P


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks! You could put a whole mess of nice riparium plants in a 90P.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I have started experimenting with shadowbox backgrounds that I am making with this matte acetate sheet. So far I am getting some interesting results.

Here is the sheet behind the 56 with backlighting but with the tank light turned off. This is just the acetate by itself and with not other image behind it.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks good man. If you don't mind, post some pics of what you ended up with when you finish the background. I am strongly considering one for my newest scape but I may not be able to fit it. This has come a long way, really great.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey thanks! that was just a quick snapshot I hope to get the background all put together for better pictures later on.

I posted some pictures in another thread with detail of how I built that birch dowel frame for the background and I quote it here...



hydrophyte said:


> I made some time for this project.
> 
> On Thursday I had enough time in the day for some "holiday joinery'' with this 3/8" square birch dowel that I am using for the shadowbox frame.
> 
> ...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Well now I have decided to change the fish theme for this setup. I like the new _Barbus rhombocellatus_ that I just got so much that I am going to change it over to a Borneo loose biotope setup. I am going to remove the _P. buffei_ catfish and maybe also the _Steatocranus_ cichlid.

The barbs are swimming in a real nice school and now the setup would do well with a larger centerpiece fish. I pondered using some kind of more or less representative gourami, but I think it will be more interesting to try a species betta of some kind. I just started looking around but turned up this idea...

_*Betta pugnax*_

That one isn't real brightly-colored like some bettas but it grows nice and big. Some pictures show it with blue coloration, which would contrast nice against the barbs.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

...that fish really is pretty intriguing:

*SeriouslyFish.com: Betta pugnax*






.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Is there anybody here who doesn't love seeing this?...


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

What's in there? where did you get them? can we see? can we, can we!

BTW Nice construction on the little frame.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Aside from the _B. rhombocellatus _which are good-sized most of these fish are very small and I will have to grow them up. 

I got pretty cool stuff though. Here is the little group of jelly bean tetras (_Ladigesia roloffi_) that I got for my 20G blackwater setup...


----------



## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

I love getting new fish. But alas, I'm fully stocked. The good news is I like them all.

I'm paying a whole lot more attention to the riparium posts now Hydrophyte.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'll try to post more pictures soon.

I have some really cool plants in this tank and I need to get picture updates for them.


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I have a nice sized school of Rhombos in a holding aquarium. I would really like to move them I to my 38g cube, but I have to say, I am a little scared they might wipe out my CRS.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Momotaro said:


> I have a nice sized school of Rhombos in a holding aquarium. I would really like to move them I to my 38g cube, but I have to say, I am a little scared they might wipe out my CRS.


They are real nice fish. I love that snakeskin pattern that they have. I need to do a little more research but I think that _Betta pugnax_ will be a good one to combine with them.

There are some real cool barbs available. I want to select a good one for that Western Ghats project that I have in mind.


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

I've been hoping to build a SE asian/borneo riparium/palud myself. But I really want to keep this to ONLY SE asian plants, including emergent plants. What plants originate there that I could keep emergent? I know most crypts will do but what about lillies, orchids and the like?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Jeffww said:


> I've been hoping to build a SE asian/borneo riparium/palud myself. But I really want to keep this to ONLY SE asian plants, including emergent plants. What plants originate there that I could keep emergent? I know most crypts will do but what about lillies, orchids and the like?


I am getting really stoked about these rheophytic palms that I ahve been researching. Most of the best ones that I have found commercially available are from SE Asia. This _Iguanura tenuis_ is especially cool and so far doing really well in the riparium...










There are various other plants to consider. If you keep it plenty humid inside there are various really great crypts that you could grow. looking4roselines also has that new sales thread with a _Piptospatha_ and a _Bakoa_. 

I have tried a few water-associated orchids, but not with real good results yet.

Lasioid aroids like _Cyrtosperma johnstonii_ and _Lasia spinosa_ are _amazing_ plants.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

...oh and other ones to consider are various emersed stems. These grow best if you root them in the hanging planter, then train them to grow across the trellis raft. They make a really nice floating carpet of foliage if you do that. Here is _Limnophila aromatica_...










In my experience emersed stems are better in open-top riparium setups. They grow _really_ soft if you keep them in high humidity.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Gorgeous palm, and as always your tanks look awesome.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks!

I really like the palms a lot and they are my favorite new kind of plant. I wish I could get more palms in soon, but my main source said that they don't want to ship again till April. I think I can still get cat palm though from Florida and that one makes a real nice background plant.


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Wow. What'd you do to condition those plants to grow in open air like that?


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> ...oh and other ones to consider are various emersed stems. These grow best if you root them in the hanging planter, then train them to grow across the trellis raft. They make a really nice floating carpet of foliage if you do that. Here is _Limnophila aromatica_...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Check out my alternanthera reinekii it would probably do well in a riparian and it looks pretty good to boot.










Len


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Len did you see I am trying to figure out another fish to combine with rhombo barbs? Have you researched Borneo fish much? My best idea so far would be a pair of _Betta pugnax_. What do you think of that?

Yep I have grown _A. reneckii_ in ripariums before and it does pretty well. It's actually best for open-top setups like you have it going because if you grow it in high-humidity it grows real soft and flimsy.


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Len did you see I am trying to figure out another fish to combine with rhombo barbs? Have you researched Borneo fish much? My best idea so far would be a pair of _Betta pugnax_. What do you think of that?
> 
> Yep I have grown _A. reneckii_ in ripariums before and it does pretty well. It's actually best for open-top setups like you have it going because if you grow it in high-humidity it grows real soft and flimsy.


I really havn't researched fish much, I'm thinking shrimp but I need something that is tolerable of fast moving water, for fish barbs of some sort probably but I need to be careful because when the water goes down after flooding it they may get stranded.

Len


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

hydrophyte said:


> Len did you see I am trying to figure out another fish to combine with rhombo barbs? Have you researched Borneo fish much? My best idea so far would be a pair of _Betta pugnax_. What do you think of that?
> 
> Yep I have grown _A. reneckii_ in ripariums before and it does pretty well. It's actually best for open-top setups like you have it going because if you grow it in high-humidity it grows real soft and flimsy.



What type of fish are you looking for? Schooling? Bottom dwellers? A show piece?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'd like to get something like a centerpiece to go with the group of rhombo barbs. And I want it to be a Borneo-native species.


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Hmm....How much space do you have and how big of a fish do you want? Several gourami are from borneo. Chocolate gourami get a little bigger than rhombo barbs but not by much. Knight gobies are from there too but they're bottom dwellers. I can't really name anything from borneo that's not a barb or ridiculously large.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I want to get something a little more unusual and it seems like all of the gouramis aside from chocolate gourami are really common LFS fish. That is why I want to consider one of those species bettas.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey here's a quick picture update...


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

I guess it all depends on the type off environment you are going for, blackwater and slow rivers would work for betta and goramis and the faster streams have more streamlined fish like barbs and rasboras, I have never been much of a fish guy, even my reef tanks never had many fish in them and the ones I kept were for function more than looks, I'll see what I can find though

Len


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I think that that one betta that I was looking at (B. pugnax) will be a good one to keep in combination with those barbs. The one thing that I was reading explained that it lives in a range of different habitats including mellow steams.

Here's another quick view of the tank...


----------



## luke20037 (Jan 24, 2010)

hey hydro that setup is awsome! will have to update my thread soon!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks Luke!

Hey I look forward to seeing your update!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I haven't made much headway building the shadowbox background for this setup, but I got a quick picture of the tree frog setup today and the background is looking pretty good in there. 










I want to experiment with it some more but you can get an idea of the kind of effect that it can give you. Now I need to find some pictures of rainforest canopy to use with this Borneo setup.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Wow! I just in the mail a little box of plants that gordonrichards sent, _Aglaonema minima_ and _A. simplex_. These are pretty cool. While most _Aglaonema_ are upland forest plants that probably wouldn't do very well in a riparium, but of these are swamp or stream associated plants. They are also nice and small and with attractive foliage.

One or both of these (can't remember right now) occurs on Borneo. I am going to read about them again and try to post pictures sometime soon.

These might be perfect little riparium plants. I am so happy to get them because I have been hoping to find them for a while. It will be interesting to see how they do.


----------



## aznartist34 (Nov 19, 2010)

Wow, the shadow box is looking really good. Definitely gives it that depth.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks! That picture is actually another different setup that's a terrarium and you should see if you scroll down a bit.


----------



## WeedCali (Jun 21, 2010)

What Kind of frogs are you housing in there?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

It's just a single Hyla versicolor. Like I said I have it journaled right over here...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/157501-65g-hyla-versicolor-northern-woodland-2.html


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

So, I really want to work on resolving this thing.

I think that I like the riparium plants pretty well, but the setup has these other issues...


*Fish stocking* - I recently added a group of _P. rhombocellatus_ barbs which I like a lot and which go with the loose biotope theme. I want to select some other Borneo-authentic fish to add. Teh best idea I have so far is for a small group--I guess you can keep them in groups--of _Betta pugnax_. I want to remove the _P. buffei_ catfish (West Africa-native) but I might leave the _Steatocranus_ cichlid (also West Africa) because I like his personality so much.

*Hardscape* - I sort of like the hardscapse that I made with these limestone boulders, and I sort of don't like it. What do you think about it? (see picture below) Maybe I should use manzanita instead(???).

*Underwater plants* - I currently have a few C. wendtii crypts in there, but I want to replace with all Borneo species. I want to use crypts that will do alright with this low tech setup in neutral/hard water. Do you have any specific suggestions?

Thanks for considering this!


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

Go with C keei great looking you can get them at a fairly reasonable price and they grow well.. Other than that some type of Cordata will fit the bill.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks! Yes I had run into those two. I will try to track them down.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

What do you think of my hardscape problem? Should I leave those stones in there or should I yank them out and try to fill the underwater are with plants + fish?


----------



## Sharp (Dec 7, 2011)

Nice setup! I think the stones look off because they're too uniform - maybe try a group of one or two big stones plus a bunch of much smaller ones? Might also help to pile them up more on one side of the tank.


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> What do you think of my hardscape problem? Should I leave those stones in there or should I yank them out and try to fill the underwater are with plants + fish?


I think a jungle look under their would be good, possibly sandstone instead of the river rocks but regardless cover them in moss and fill in the gaps with crypts, should both do fine under the shade of the above water plants, I would go with a more compact moss that looks good though stay away from java it's too stringy IMO.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Sharp said:


> Nice setup! I think the stones look off because they're too uniform - maybe try a group of one or two big stones plus a bunch of much smaller ones? Might also help to pile them up more on one side of the tank.





lbacha said:


> I think a jungle look under their would be good, possibly sandstone instead of the river rocks but regardless cover them in moss and fill in the gaps with crypts, should both do fine under the shade of the above water plants, I would go with a more compact moss that looks good though stay away from java it's too stringy IMO.
> 
> Len


I think the rocks might look better if I just fill in around them with more plants. I could consider moss, but it would need to be nice and compact like you say because I don't like the way Java moss looks like algae in photographs. 

I have never kept them but I imagine that _Barclaya_ (also occur on Borneo) would be more demanding. Is that right?

I gotta get some _Crypt. keei._


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I just ran into this article from a few years ago. I remember seeing it back then but I wan to link it here while I have it handy...

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/hunting-for-wild-bettas-in-northern-borneo.htm

Oh and here's another fish to consider. This description also lists a number of sympatrics in the Habitats section...

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Pangio&species=semicincta&id=1491


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

I started playing with the hardscape for my setup tomorrow after present opening will be the start of a week of trials to see what I like


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

lbacha said:


> I started playing with the hardscape for my setup tomorrow after present opening will be the start of a week of trials to see what I like


I look forward to seeing that.

You know now I am wondering about just doing away with the rocks and using oak leaves along with the crypts.

I'm reminded about yet another species that could be a good choice. I think somebody had mentioned this before...
 
Hyalobagrus flavus - Shadow Catfish


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I got back to work revamping this thing. I reomved those boulders and I think I also have a couple more fish species figured out; I'm going to add one or two Borneo _Rasbora_. There are some pretty cool less common _Rasbora_ available right now. 

I planted a little group of _Crypt. cordata_ in the underwater area. I gotta work on getting more Borneo-native crypts.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

While I have it handy I wanted to post this list of Borneo species that I got from _The Crypts Page_ (http://crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/Countries/Borneo.html).

_C. auriculata_
_C. bullosa_
_C. cordata_ var. _cordata_
_C. cordata_ var. _grabowskii_
_C. cordata_ var. _zonata_
_C. edithiae
C. ferruginea
C. fusca
C. griffithii
C. hudoroi
C. ideii
C. keei
C. lingua
C. longicauda
C. noritoi
C. pallidinervia_
_C. ´purpurea_ nothovar. _borneoensis_
_C. striolata
C. uenoi
C. yujii
C. zaidiana
_


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

...also wanted to mention that I posted a WTT thread in the SNS. I hope to track down a couple-few of these crypts...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/161021-wtt-looking-borneo-native-crypts.html


.


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> While I have it handy I wanted to post this list of Borneo species that I got from _The Crypts Page_ (http://crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/Countries/Borneo.html).


_let me add a little detail as well from my research here is the type of habitat they grow in (Clearwater Streams, Blackwater streams or Tidal areas)_

_C. auriculata - Clearwater_
_C. bullosa - Clearwater_
_C. cordata_ var. _cordata - Blackwater_
_C. cordata_ var. _grabowskii - Blackwater_
_C. cordata_ var. _zonata - Blackwater_
_C. edithiae - Blackwater_
_C. ferruginea - Blackwater_
_C. fusca - Tidal_
_C. griffithii - Tidal_
_C. hudoroi - Clearwater_
_C. ideii - Tidal_
_C. keei - Clearwater_
_C. lingua- Tidal_
_C. longicauda - Blackwater_
_C. noritoi - Clearwater_
_C. pallidinervia - Blackwater_
_C. ´purpurea_ nothovar. _borneoensis - Blackwater_
_C. striolata - Clearwater_
_C. uenoi - Clearwater_
_C. yujii - Blackwater_
_C. zaidiana - Tidal_

_Len_


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks man. That's great.

Do you know if any of those tidal species would be associated with brackish water specifically, or are they instead from areas higher up in estuaries that have fresh water but are still tidally-influenced?


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Thanks man. That's great.
> 
> Do you know if any of those tidal species would be associated with brackish water specifically, or are they instead from areas higher up in estuaries that have fresh water but are still tidally-influenced?


I think for the most part they are from tidal influenced fresh water streams but I think I have read that ciliata grows closer to the ocean so it may also be able to handle brackish water.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yes _C. ciliata_ can definitely grow in pretty salty brackish water. I have some going in my mangrove setup now. I think that shrimpo had some growing well in his brackish riparium too.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

...you know what would be a really cool plant to get would be _Aglaodorum_...

http://www.aroid.org/genera/speciespage.php?genus=aglaodorum&species=griffithii


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> ...you know what would be a really cool plant to get would be _Aglaodorum_...
> 
> http://www.aroid.org/genera/speciespage.php?genus=aglaodorum&species=griffithii


Jungle Mike has some cool pics of large patches of it growing on some of his threads. It would probabaly do really well in a riparium. I saw you bought up a bunch of the aglaonema that Gordon had I think it will be a good filler as well with simple lance shaped leaves. The L thwaitsii is nice as well that I got from him.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I already have those two _Aglaonema_ (_A. simplex, A. minima_) going in here and they look great. They started to root in the planters right away. 

That _Aglaodorum_ is sort of a plain-looking plant, but it is botanically-cool.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I don't think I had seen this one particular post by Jungle Mike and I wanted to copy the link while I had it handy...

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/73830/aquatic-amp-semi-aquatic-plants-of-borneo


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Some quick notes...


_Rasbora rutteni_
_Rasbora kalochroma_
_Brevibora dorsiocellata_
_Sundadanio axelrodi_


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Picked up a cool fish at the LFS today...this should make a nice centerpiece for this setup...

Google: _Parosphromenus filamentosus_


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

These _Parosphromenus filamentosus _are looking great this morning! They have already started to color up and have bright rosy redy on their bellies. I am so glad that I found them.

I want to go back and get one more individual. Last night I bought two of them--they both look like males--and they are getting along just fine so far.


----------



## klaus07 (Nov 23, 2011)

Milwaukee has such cool Fish Stores: does Madison also?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

klaus07 said:


> Milwaukee has such cool Fish Stores: does Madison also?


Madison has a couple of good stores, but nothing like Hoffer's or Aquatic Specialties. This shop is nice...

http://livingartaquarium.com/

I am back to work on this setup. I have been doing more research and I'm trying to update the planting + fish selection.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey everybody...this is a random post.

If you are super bored can you please send me a test email to each of these accounts...

devin^at^ripariumsupply.com
support^at^ripariumsupply.com

I am having a lot of trouble with email and website hosting. Messages are not getting through.

If you send me an email please also let me know with a post or PM here. Thanks!


----------



## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

Sending now.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Just sent you an email,
Matt


----------



## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

Just sent you an interesting fact! lol


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey thanks you guys. I will check to see if they landed in there.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I got three messages and sent responses back. I hope that you saw my response emails(?).


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I am moving this tank downstairs...Ugh!

I think I have a new complete concept for how to do this tank. It sure has taken me a long time to decide. I have been studying a lot of JungleMike's pictures and posts for a better idea of how the vegetation is.


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> I am moving this tank downstairs...Ugh!
> 
> I think I have a new complete concept for how to do this tank. It sure has taken me a long time to decide. I have been studying a lot of JungleMike's pictures and posts for a better idea of how the vegetation is.


Great place for inspiration, his pics are what started me down the path to my tank, I can't wait to see what you think up.

Len


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm not changing the planting a whole lot I am mostly just trying to reconfigure things better.

The _Licuala paludosa_ palms will still be the dominant plant in the layout. These things are still looking good. All of them have grow new leaves but I have been relieved to see that they are not getting a lot taller too fast. They still fit in the tank just fine. I love these pleated leaves that they have.


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> I'm not changing the planting a whole lot I am mostly just trying to reconfigure things better.
> 
> The _Licuala paludosa_ palms will still be the dominant plant in the layout. These things are still looking good. All of them have grow new leaves but I have been relieved to see that they are not getting a lot taller too fast. They still fit in the tank just fine. I love these pleated leaves that they have.


I looked this thing up it gets 20+ feet in the wild keep us informed on how it does contained like this.

Len


----------



## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

Ok Devin here is plant I would like to find

Pinanga aristata

Len


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

lbacha said:


> I looked this thing up it gets 20+ feet in the wild keep us informed on how it does contained like this.
> 
> Len


It will be alright for a while. Like I said the young plants have all grown new leaves, but they haven't put on any more height yet. It is supposedly a clumping palm so if it gets real big I might be able to chop it off on top and get suckers from it.



lbacha said:


> Ok Devin here is plant I would like to find
> 
> Pinanga aristata
> 
> Len


Oh yeah that one is pretty amazing. I have never seen it for sale. My similar _Pinanga disticha_ is still looking good and growing nice roots in the riparium planter.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I might work on this setup some tonight. I want to get it in shape for photography and as s subject for another magazine article. The plants are looking good, but it is fishless at the moment.

I am going to maintain a palm + _Pandanus_ theme for the riparium plants. Micheal Lo has been posting more pictures on FB of swamps in Borneo and a lot of them appear to be dominated by various palms and pandans.

The _Iguanura tenuis_ palm has another new leaf on it. This is an older picture showing a new leaf with this very attractive chestnut color.


----------



## Michiba54 (Nov 24, 2011)

Hey, I skimmed over this thread while I cooked dinner... it was enjoyable :thumbsup: (the thread, lol)

I am curious though, are any of these plants or their roots poisonous to fish/amphibians/turtles to your knowledge?


----------



## duff (Feb 26, 2006)

Beautiful Plant and looking forward to seeing your photos.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Michiba54 said:


> Hey, I skimmed over this thread while I cooked dinner... it was enjoyable :thumbsup: (the thread, lol)
> 
> I am curious though, are any of these plants or their roots poisonous to fish/amphibians/turtles to your knowledge?


Thanks! I hope that you enjoyed your dinner too.

I have never had any trouble with poisonous plants. I have used _Dieffenbachia_ a few times in ripariums, but was leery of it because we have dogs and cats here and I worried about them chewing on it. None of the other plants that I have used have very strong toxins that I know of.


----------



## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Hey Devin...the tank looks really nice! Any chance that you could take a FTS from "straight on," perhaps at eye level??


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

crazydaz said:


> Hey Devin...the tank looks really nice! Any chance that you could take a FTS from "straight on," perhaps at eye level??


The setup doesn't look like much now because I took all of the gravel out and I have plants hung up in the front too. Here is an older picture from last winter...










However, some of the plant specimens are looking very good, so I should try to get it into shape.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

duff said:


> Beautiful Plant and looking forward to seeing your photos.


I'll try to do more sometime pretty soon!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Back to work on this thing again...I might have some pictures later on.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I really gotta get back to work on this thing...

A plant that I should really try out is _Bolbitis heteroclita_. This is another one of several plants that is demanding and difficult to grow underwater, but much easier to keep as an emersed specimen. the emersed-form foliage looks cool. Check out this Wikimedia Commons ( ) image...


----------



## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Ok, now that is sweet!! I want some of that, if you can get some, Devin!! My greedy little fingers wants it!!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I will watch out for it. I have seen_ B. heteroclita_ for sale a couple of times at various LFS, but it is one of those plants that they sell cynically that's almost sure to fail underwater. I don't know what might be the better way to plant it in a riparium if it would root into a planter, or would be better on a trellis raft(?).


----------



## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Only one way to find out, bro!


----------



## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Wow, that emmersed bolbtis would look awesome in one of your tanks!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah I hope I can find it again.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I _finally_ [got back to work on this thing. It sat half-neglected for such a long time, but the plants have done alright. I have been please to see the _Licuala paludosa_ palms (most of the foliage in the background) still growing but not getting much taller. I worried they would get too big rather fast, but they aren't reaching up any higher than the enclosure top.

I cleaned a pail of my nice mixed gravel that I like to use and dumped it in. The glass was also a mess. I need to add some kind of background and start working on the underwater area some more. I have to find fish, too.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here is another variation that I think I might add to this setup. The 37G native Wisconsin riparium includes a manzanita branch feature and I think something like it might look good with this Borneo tank too. I could mount orchids such as _Bulbophyllum_ on it. It think it would look good to add more variety of texture to the above water area to contrast with those palm leaves.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

...back to work on this thing!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I got it all cleaned up with a new hardscape! 

I have new pictures to post I just need to process them and upload.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's a quick view in through the top. I like the new configuration. I'll have a few more pictures on the way.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's the new hardscape. I've actually used those rounded stones in several other setups. I like them a lot and they make a very authentic river bottom appearance.


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

The river rocks work well with that gravel. A very natural look. 

Such a simple concept that so many people don't grasp.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

DogFish said:


> The river rocks work well with that gravel. A very natural look.
> 
> Such a simple concept that so many people don't grasp.


Yeah I always got a pretty good result using those rounded river stones. I arranged them with an ally between the two large stones and the _Danio_ swim around them in a figure-8. 

Yep ripariums are ridiculous easy it is odd that it is so hard to interpret. You wouldn't believe the looks on people's faces when I try to explain that ripariums are mainly for plants fish, and not for dart frogs--and some people absolutely refuse the idea even when I have the plants and stuff right there in front of them like it's some kind of aquarium heresy or something. It's really strange. 

Here's a full tank shot. I might rearrange the plants some more. The planting has a triangular shape, but it might looks better with the tallest plants in the center to form a mound. I am going to add some more aluminum plant on trellis rafts. The underwater area will stay unplanted. This is intended to look like a mountain stream and that kind of habitat often has few underwater plants.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I have finally figured out fish selection for this tank. It took me a long time! I am going to leave the _Danio albolineatus_ in there, and add a group of these...

SeriouslyFish.com: _Sewellia lineolata_

This is a great fish and I found a local source with a real good price. I am going to pick them up on Monday. 

So, this is not a Borneo-themed tank anymore; _S. lineolata _are from Vietnam. The _D. albolineatus_ occur in Vietnam as well.

This is exciting to finally have this figured out. I hope that I can get these loaches to acclimate well. If I can the rest of the setup all configured and cleaned up I will have lots of pictures on the way soon.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I can't wait to get these _Sewellia_!

The same local seller told me that he is also getting in some of these...

SeriouslyFish.com: _Homaloptera confuzona_ 

This is great! That fish was also on my list and they are really cool.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I got the _Sewellia_ and they are super cool!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here are these little devils acclimating in a pail with an airstone.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This thing is looking a little chaotic while I finish setting it up. I am going to add another powerhead, but I dropped a couple of fast air stones in it in the meantime.










These _Sewellia_ like to be right in the current...


----------



## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

LOL!! Very cool, Devin!!! Neat little dudes!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

crazydaz said:


> LOL!! Very cool, Devin!!! Neat little dudes!


Yeah they are pretty great. Unfortunately I did not get the _Homaloptera_; they did not come with the seller's transship order. I hope that I can track them down somewhere. I might also/alternatively like to add a couple of _Shistura_ sumo loaches.

Hey Don I gt your box shipped out today I just need to go get the tracking # and I'll write with it.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm leaving for fish shopping again. I asked one of our LFS if they could order in some _Shistura_ sumo loaches and they are supposed to get their new fish in this afternoon. I'll be happy when I can get this setup fully stocked.

I really like the species descriptions over there on loaches.com...

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/schistura-balteata

_S. balteata_ is actually from Myanmar (Burma), but that's close enough. I have seen them before in the shop and they look great.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

_Tropical Fish Hobbyist_ just linked this quick article from a couple of years ago on Facebook...

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/freshwater/species-profiles/beaufortia-leveretti.htm


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Post more pictures!

I'm in love with this tank. 

Any good finds while fish shopping?


----------



## Loachutus (Aug 27, 2010)

Hold out for the confuzona if you can. These guys are awesome to see in person. 










Great tank! Hopefully you can get the sewellia to breed for ya.


----------



## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

those are some cool fish.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

somewhatshocked said:


> Post more pictures!
> 
> I'm in love with this tank.
> 
> Any good finds while fish shopping?


Yep I hope to get more pictures tonight. I am shuffling the plants aroudn to get a better scape. Sorry I could not make it out the door for shopping. I should be able to get over there tomorrow.



Loachutus said:


> Hold out for the confuzona if you can. These guys are awesome to see in person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah that brown color is awesome. I hope that I can find some of them. Is that fish yours?


----------



## Loachutus (Aug 27, 2010)

> Yeah that brown color is awesome. I hope that I can find some of them. Is that fish yours?


The brown with the hints of red, HOLD OUT MAN! Yes, the fish is mine. PM on the way about some places to check about these.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

@[email protected] said:


> those are some cool fish.


Yeah I like 'em a lot. I need to get some video



Loachutus said:


> The brown with the hints of red, HOLD OUT MAN! Yes, the fish is mine. PM on the way about some places to check about these.


Thanks I saw your PM. There really are a lot of cool loach species. I think that I can reasonably fit one _Homaloptera_ and one _Schistura_ in this tank, and then it will be pretty full.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Loachutus reminded me that franksaquarium.com has a whole catalog page of hillstream loaches... http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of variety there now, but it would be worthwhile to check there again.

Look at this weird animal that is in their current stocklist...

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/vaillantella-maassi/


----------



## Veneer (Jan 18, 2005)

Frank would be the guy to go to for hillstream oddballs. He's very receptive to requests via e-mail or on the franksaquarium bulletin board, in my experience.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Veneer said:


> Frank would be the guy to go to for hillstream oddballs. He's very receptive to requests via e-mail or on the franksaquarium bulletin board, in my experience.


I should write to see if he can get that _Homaloptera_ because I really want that fish.

I might try to get that _Vaillantella flavofasciata_ as well. My original plan for this tank was to make a Borneo swamp biotope--this would require very different fish selection--but I still want to do that because there are so many cool fish to consider and the _Vaillantella_ could be a real good one. A 65G could be a good tank for a riparium setup like this.

He has a link on that page to this article too from loaches.com... http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-in-the-fast-lane


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I think that I improved the plant layout in here. I moved one of the grassy Pandanus plants over to the left side to make more of a mound-shaped planting.

I really like those _Licuala paludosa_ palms in there a lot.


----------



## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i like the look. but i might add some anubias petite or nana in between some of the rocks if it were me. maybe its just cuz i like to really cram as many plants as i can into my tanks, lol.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

@[email protected] said:


> i like the look. but i might add some anubias petite or nana in between some of the rocks if it were me. maybe its just cuz i like to really cram as many plants as i can into my tanks, lol.


Thanks! The plantless underwater is actually a better representation of the hillstream habitat, where the water flows too fast for plants to grow very well. And _Anubias_ spp. are from Africa. I like the clear definition of the rocks, too.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I like these _Danio albolineatus_ a lot. They look a lot better than when I brought them home from the LFS.










I might decide that these fish are too big for this setup. I have a lead on some _D. choprae_ and those might be a better choice.


----------



## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ah i see.
your trying to do a biotope then?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

@[email protected] said:


> ah i see.
> your trying to do a biotope then?


It's a loose biotope more or less representative for a SE Asia hillstream habitat.

The _Sewellia lineolata_ are from Vietnam. The _Danio albolineatus_ also occur in Vietnam and in neighboring countries. The _Homalopetera_ that I want to get are from Myanmar. The plants are mostly Southeast Asian.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

One more tank shot from last night...


----------



## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

I used to keep a variety of Botia, but never any hillstream loaches which are a little different. 

Wonderful rip!

I enjoy all your set-ups, hydrophyte.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

synaethetic said:


> I used to keep a variety of Botia, but never any hillstream loaches which are a little different.
> 
> Wonderful rip!
> 
> I enjoy all your set-ups, hydrophyte.


Hey thanks! 

I really like these hillstream loaches. I think I'm hooked! I spotted some _Gastromyzon_ at the LFS the other day and I might have to go back for a couple of them.


----------



## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

+1 for hillstream loaches. Pearl danios are nice fish too, even if they are cheap as dirt.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

kwheeler91 said:


> +1 for hillstream loaches. Pearl danios are nice fish too, even if they are cheap as dirt.


Yeah I already have an idea in my head for another hillstream setup.

Yes those _D. albolineatus_ were four for three dollars, but they are great aquarium fish.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I wanted to bookmark this page from aquariacentral.com while I had it handy. This is Ricky Chwala's 90G tank for _Stiphodon_ gobies. He might have also had loaches in there(?). I can't remember. There are links to some cool tank video in the journal.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?221159-Shots-from-the-new-90/page15


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I was reminded about this riparium video from about a year ago. The setup looked really good with a large driftwood stump in the midground and emerging above the water's surface... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryZpGXAsAzM&feature=player_embedded

I am considering adding some manzanita branches to this setup, but I think that they need to be slender so that they will fit in among the stones. I might experiment with this later on.


----------



## Loachutus (Aug 27, 2010)

> Yeah I already have an idea in my head for another hillstream setup.


Your assimilation is going well. Can't wait!!

Vaillantella maassi are really cool. In my top 5 as far as fish go. They remind me of moray eels. They use that dorsal just like the eels. Great write up on that link you posted. These guys are really easy to care for, just watch out what other bottom dwellers you put in with them. The sumo loach and these guys might not be a good mix. Never kept sumo's but have had other schistura species that will bully other bottom dwellers. 

One of the 4 v. maassi I have:









If you have any extra room in any tanks, you may want to think about switching out algae covered rocks for the Sewellia, they'll love ya for it.

That journal link was really cool.

MORE tanks pics!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I was reminded about this really cool album of pictures from Thailand that somebody linked on Facebook...

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.371350229600809.81636.100001775055116&type=3


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Loachutus said:


> Your assimilation is going well. Can't wait!!
> 
> Vaillantella maassi are really cool. In my top 5 as far as fish go. They remind me of moray eels. They use that dorsal just like the eels. Great write up on that link you posted. These guys are really easy to care for, just watch out what other bottom dwellers you put in with them. The sumo loach and these guys might not be a good mix. Never kept sumo's but have had other schistura species that will bully other bottom dwellers.
> 
> ...


I'll try to get more tank pictures soon. I added some more plants on trellis rafts last night.

From the pictures I thought that that _V. maassi _looked a lot like a mastacembalid eel. I don't know if it would be a good choice for a hillstream setup because it is apparently from quieter waters. IT would be cool to combine it with a species betta from Borneo or barbs and stuff like that. 

I really like the looks of _Schistura balteata_ and I see them around quite a bit, but apparently they grow to 4.5" long, which is probably too big for this tank. I'd like to find a smaller species. And I'm still trying to track down that _Homaloptera_, too.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

A quick FTS, from above...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I made a new video using this setup! Please check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4mF4KFayLw

The still images got a little screwed up. I am going to open the file again and fix those.


----------



## Saxtonhill (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks for posting the video! Love the arrangement and textures and also the hidden pots of soil and plastic rooting devices (for lack of a better description)...well done!


----------



## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Great video, Devin! Love the Hillstream Loaches!!


----------



## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Love it! I'm a fan of all Danios, underrated I think.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Saxtonhill said:


> Thanks for posting the video! Love the arrangement and textures and also the hidden pots of soil and plastic rooting devices (for lack of a better description)...well done!


Thanks. I will have more videos on the way and I'm going to try to make some with better video quality. The plants are planted into the riparium hanging planters and trellis rafts.



crazydaz said:


> Great video, Devin! Love the Hillstream Loaches!!


Thanks yep the loaches are really great.



PaulG said:


> Love it! I'm a fan of all Danios, underrated I think.


These danios are perfect in this tank. I hope to try some more different species for other projects. I'd love to get a group of those _D. tinwini. _


----------



## iter (Apr 24, 2012)

Any updates?

Other than that, have you ever thought of growing Bucephalandra for this biotope? They are in the same region and your fast water current would be perfect for them as they are rheophytes.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

iter said:


> Any updates?
> 
> Other than that, have you ever thought of growing Bucephalandra for this biotope? They are in the same region and your fast water current would be perfect for them as they are rheophytes.


This setup hasn't changed much. The plants and fish are all looking good. I should try to get some new pictures.

I could probably grow _Bucephalandra_ in here on trellis rafts in the same manner as for _Anubias_, but I intended for the setup to be more or less representative for the Malay Peninsula, and buces are from from Borneo.


----------



## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

I really like this riparium setup... the plant rafts are a great idea!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

bluestems said:


> I really like this riparium setup... the plant rafts are a great idea!


Thanks a bunch!


----------

