# For those of you thinking about changing to ADA



## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

Here are a couple of pictures that might persuade you.
Just a note I am dosing my ferts by the EI as well.

Here is my Limnophila aromatica
as of Aug 29 2006










And here it is on Sept 11 2006










As you can see I am very pleased with the results.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Nice results. I always wonder if it is the substrate, or a combination of light, soft water, and lots of fertilizer (including CO2). Do you have any tanks with other substrates that are otherwise comparable, where you have or could plant some of the Limno's?


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

nice growth, but you may want to research what Phosphate, Nitrate, and Lighting will yield better red shift coloration. my guess is your Phosphates are under 2ppm, that's why you are losing the red/purple highlights.
i suggest you trim some of these stems lower from the root side, no the top.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

It's a bit of both the substrate and the water column.
I can get very rapid growth from this plant without ADA soil.
But a few species of plants do do better, HC, Rolata var green, a few others.
If you are good at dosing the water column, most do well with many species.
Still, given a choice, and you have onem, go with the ADA aqua soil substrate, it does produce better results, which in general, are easier for most folks to achieve a nice look, growth etc for all plants.

Think about it: some nutrients and better texture, less transport, and good water column ferts will make the best situation for the plant.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> I always wonder if it is the substrate


I'll ditto Tom, but the substrate plays a huge roll in it.


Mike


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

spypet said:


> nice growth, but you may want to research what Phosphate, Nitrate, and Lighting will yield better red shift coloration. my guess is your Phosphates are under 2ppm, that's why you are losing the red/purple highlights.
> i suggest you trim some of these stems lower from the root side, no the top.



My guess is that the nitrates are a bit over 10ppm and lowering the NO3 will bring the reds out more. I remember Pjan kept his NO3 quite low and got dramatic reds with L aromatica (winner of AGA Large tank this year). That has been my experience with Ludwegia arcuata and L. aromatica. That said, Dave, that is very healthy looking Limnophila aromatica!


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## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

Thanks for the input. I had the same plants in flora base and I dosed EI as well. I can honestly say that my growth rate has at a minimum trippled. There is no comparison what so ever. I was planning on dropping my nitrates as suggested before I take them in for trade. I am at present dosing nitrate @ 1/2 tsp. as per EI. How much do you guys recommend I cut it back to?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I have had poor results with FB in comparisons with ADA using EI.

Since EI and good CO2 ruile other potential source as a generalization, the end results are primarily due to the substrate.

That's the key difference when making a substrate comparison.
Alos, there's less transport required when you have nutrients in both locations.

You also have access to NH4 from the soft textured AS.
That is not present in FB or other commonly available products in the USA.

That is likely the increased growth responses we see in some plantas, but it might be texture, but...........if it were texture alone, FB would also give great results, but we just do not see that.

So.......I am left with the presence of NH4 that is added in soil/organic form to the semi soft clay in ADA for the growth enhancement and perhaps some PO4/Fe as well.

I think the AS is very good for folk that neglect their dosing here and there or do not add enough nutrients to begin with.

Many reduce their dosing down to get reds, L aromatica certainly will redden up if you do this, but it looks sort of bad if you do this all the time.

Plants are brittle, sickly, stressed, nothing wrong with that a little bit, but it does not impart a nice example of healthy plant, even if we enjoy the reds.

Some plants such as Mic umbrosum look terrible if you lower the NO3's down.
I have seen this is several folk's tanks, the grass, Rotala green look good, but the Eustrailis, the Mic umbrosum looked terrible in AS and the ADA line of ferts.

I suggested adding soem KNO3, hut they looked at me like I was clueless and that ADA knows all.
Haha, not even. They also had some BGa growing.
Go figureroud: 

Mic umbrosum I know very well to be an excellent indicator for low NO3.
Steve Dixon and myself had noted this about 8-9 years ago when we did some low NO3 test. Many plants reddened up considerable, but this plant also took a beating. Steve had chronic BGA and along the gravel line.

When we bumped the NO3 up, ES lightened up and the Mic started to grow well.

It is a very poor assumption to say all plants will exhibit the precise coloration and growth you want with one given set of nutrient parameters.
Different species of plants have different needs and will respond differently.
Stressed plants typically produce many secondary compounds in response.

My focus has been in higher growth rates, and healthy plants, not stressed out plants.

Stressed out plants will grow redder, slower, something many aquarist admire and personally I think is a bad, it walks a razor's edge of poor health and when adding lots of high light, asking for troubles.

With less light, it is far more mangeable. roud: 

But, if you think about it, and having a method that provides the flexibility for both high growth/health, and being able to slow things down and get the reds, slower growth for the photo/open house etc, that is the best of both worlds.

So lower the NO3's down only when you want to max the colors out.

Get the pic, have your friends go OOOooo, Aaahhh and then bump the NO3 back up before you get BGA or stunting.
There's a fine line between slowed growth and stunting and algae.

Many aquarist lack the control and the testing ability/accuracy to maintain that and many of you have way too much light to make that easy.

I've done it with high light, but jeeze...it's not easy testing so much and making sure you are on top of it and keeping such close monitoring.
Some might do it for a few weeks but after awhile, it wears you down and I answered my question anyway about reds/NO3 and mangement.

Less of an issue is non CO2 and low light tanks, then you have less issue, but too many assume high light = more red.........



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

spypet said:


> nice growth, but you may want to research what Phosphate, Nitrate, and Lighting will yield better red shift coloration. my guess is your Phosphates are under 2ppm, that's why you are losing the red/purple highlights.
> i suggest you trim some of these stems lower from the root side, no the top.


I think it is because of NO3 too high...my 2c


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

What level of NO3 is "too high"?
For color or health?

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

For fish/shrimp or plants?


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

I thought if you're doing EI, then there's no need to worry about No3 levels. Some argue to keep it under 10ppm for more red growth, but as far as health I don't think it matters.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Pretty sure Lynn was referring to plant color... stressing the plant a little to bring out the reds/magenta in L.aromatica. Good luck lowering NO3 to bring out the reds in Cherry shrimp. Good one, Wassman. LOL


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## TWood (Nov 1, 2005)

What's the watts per gallon on that tank?

Every tank that I've seen on the forums pimping a product has a LOT of light over it. I'll leave it to TBarr to do the experiment, but I'm willing to bet his rump that if you put 6+ WPG over a tank with good water column ferts, that you can get great results using glass marbles as a substrate.


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## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

TWood said:


> What's the watts per gallon on that tank?


I have 220W over this 55 gallon tank

I want to stress that I had dosed EI with flora-base, with nowhere near the growth and robustness. The only thing that changed was my substrate. Everything else has remained the same.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Davej, same deal here.

Same plants, same tank, same time.
Divided tank.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

Here is an update of what the tank is looking like.
I have had to trim the Limnophila aromatica back three time now,
Each time I cut it back to half its length, and replant the tops.
But not before taking 30-40 stems out for trade in at the fish store.


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