# BEST substrate for a planted 10 gal?



## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

I think the growth difference you'll see between them will be pretty trivial - just pick the one you think looks best, since they all grow plants well if you have good light, co2, and ferts.


If you had to pick one "best", it might be Aquasoil. It has a rough start up time because of ammonia leaching, but it's very rich and lends itself well to a leaner water column, if that's what you're going for. You can find many good threads about it using the search function roud:


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## neilfishguy (Dec 16, 2007)

Flourite is the worst. then eco, then aquasoil is the best for sure.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Approximately how much does it bring the pH down?


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## reddragon1977 (May 30, 2007)

ive heard alot about kitty litter and its WAY cheeper. check out the strings around this site. I will be trying it on my next tank for sure.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

But then again, I see some planted tanks on here that have success with Flourite


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Bite the bullet and go for the best - ADA Aquasoil Amazonian I or II.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

OR has anyone tried Flora Base: http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Sea-Flora-Base-Plant-Substrate+I30725400+C41.aspx


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> OR has anyone tried Flora Base: http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Sea-Flora-Base-Plant-Substrate+I30725400+C41.aspx


Thats what I use. The only main reason is I can get it locally for around $20 usually. I've heard that there is next to no difference between this and ADA AS.

Works well for me,
-Andrew


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

Yea Florabase is better if you can get it locally. Its better then Eco Complete/Flourite I think . You can say almost at the same level as Aquasoil.

But my lfs sells them 30$ for a bag...


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> Yea Florabase is better if you can get it locally. Its better then Eco Complete/Flourite. You can say almost at the same level as Aquasoil.
> 
> But my lfs sells them 30$ for a bag...


That is highly debatable as you can see from comments of some members who tried Florabase. Some claim that it starts out great growing plants, but then over time turns to mush easily kicks up a brown storm and residual sediment dust on leaves and glass when it is disturbed by fish, and is very hard to plant small plants like HC in it, so I would not go so far as say that it is better than eco-complete and fluorite and at the same level as ADA Aquasoil as you are not likely to see these issues with those substrates. Florabase is comparable to Turface as folks such as Tom Barr have noted, but Turface is a lot cheaper and will not turn to mush over time. IMHO, some of the shortcomings of Florabase can be compensated for by mixing it with Seachem Onyx Sand or Pool Filter Sand, but this may only work as a short term fix as you may end up with seperation over time and the sand may settle to the bottom. Plus if you have to buy additional sand to use with Florabase, then there may not be much of a cost savings over Fluorite or Eco-Complete.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/4352-any-red-sea-flora-base-users.html


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

So you're saying that in the long run, Flourite or Eco-Complete will be the best?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

I like to use flora base at the bottom, then eco on top. It has worked fantastic!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

frozenbarb said:


> Yea Florabase is better if you can get it locally. Its better then Eco Complete/Flourite I think . You can say almost at the same level as Aquasoil.
> 
> But my lfs sells them 30$ for a bag...


Yeah it helps me save on shipping from aquasoil basically. 

Over a while all clay substrates similar to florabase and ada as do break down. I have a mix of this and gravel in my 55g thats fine two years later. Thinking about replacing it with ADA AS when I redo the tank in the next few months.

-Andrew


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

As long as it isn't frequently disturbed, ADA AS will hold its integrity.

I've grown great plants in Fluorite, but ADA AS gave me better results. And, it even looks more natural.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> So you're saying that in the long run, Flourite or Eco-Complete will be the best?


Personally, I would bite the bullet and buy ADA Aquasoil I or II. Some say the original Aquasoil is better than the II because the II has reduced nutrient value as ADA reduced the rich black soil component in it. 

Over the long run, I don't know about Eco-Complete as I never tried it. Fluorite I found did not give me any better growth than Schultz Aquatic Soil, so personally I would not spend $30/bag for Fluorite over $7/bag for Schultz Aquatic Soil. Over the long run I don't know how they would compare as I only tested both side by side for about 6 months. Schultz is made of fire kindled fuller's earth so I don't know if it would break down any slower over the long run vs clay based substrates. For me, they both sucked at growing rooted stem plants like Ludwiga and Rotala.

Right now, I am experimenting with ADA Aquasoil II, and although it is way too early to say how good it is, so far for the two weeks that I have used it, plants seem to be doing a lot better than the two weeks that I had the same plants growing in Fluorite and Schultz Aquatic Soil. Also, the plants in the ADA Aquasoil II tank are really pearling. Something that never happened with the plants in the Schultz Aquatic Soil and Fluorite tanks, under otherwise equal conditions with the same water column fertilization.

I also had better growth(vs Seachem Fluorite and Schultz Aquatic Soil) using Seachem Onyx sand capped over some peat, mulm, and leonardite as per Tom Barr type low tech maintenance tank set up.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Does Eco-Complete or Flourite hold Glosso better? Sorry Homer, but AquaSoil is out of the picture:icon_frow


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## cleekdafish (Jun 13, 2007)

yes it does but hc is an ass to plant , unless you dont have any fishies in the tank!


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Has anyone considered using something like Flourite black or Eco Complete and adding a top layer of the powder form ADA Aquasoil? I'm not thrilled with the Glosso holding ability of Eco Complete, but then again I don't plant individual little plantlets. A top dressing with ADA AS Powder would probably look quite nice. Eventually it will sink to the bottom, just like the smaller grains of Eco Complete though, of course. I've never seen ADA substrates in person, so perhaps the color differences would be undesirable.


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## Eth (Jan 28, 2008)

neilfishguy said:


> Flourite is the worst. then eco, then aquasoil is the best for sure.


Are we talking about worst in the absolute sense, or just the worst for the money? The only reason I went back to flourite is because I really liked the look of the substrate, was fairly cheap at ~$17/bag shipped, and I didn't really like the black look. Had I known that there were better alternatives, maybe I would have bit the bullet, acquiesced, then called it a day with the aquasoil :icon_frow .


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

ADA AquaSoil > Flourite > Eco-Complete > SMS

In terms of growth, IME. I've used all of these at one time or another....in different sized-tanks, mind you.

I LOVE the look of Black Flourite though.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Eth, the whole fiasco of rinsing the Flourite prior to usage really makes it a horrible choice in my opinion. It also should be noted that I find the color of standard Flourite disgusting, so I'm biased against it. I do look forward to seeing the Flourite black sand though. 

Oh, and for what it's worth, I have regular ol' white play sand in my 10 gallon (with small amazon swords and dwarf sag) and I'm perfectly happy with it. It does show fish poo a bit too obviously though. It was "free" as I happened to have a bag already. It warranted Flourite-like rinsing measures though.


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## Eth (Jan 28, 2008)

Ahh ok. I agree with the agonizing pain in rinsing flourite, but I do like the color.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Could someone tell me the pros and cons of using sand as a substrate?


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

doesn't grow plants that well...
i would at least have something below it, say soil or peat, or a plant substrate..


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Could someone tell me the pros and cons of using sand as a substrate?


The jury is out on this. I know a petstore staff member who showed me pictures of plants growing in her 5 gallon hex tank. It is a low light tank(she claims that she is using a 9 watt dollar shop compact fluorescent light tube), no c02, no water column ferilization, and nothing under the substrate(no root tabs, no laterite). The tank is overstocked with snails, kuhli loaches. She has riccia, anubias, java moss, and java ferns, which are all growing like weeds. She used Hagen Geosytem substrate sand only. I guess you can argue that the substrate was not really put to the test as most of the plants that she grew do well with regular gravel as well.

Some people say that sand that is less than 1 mm will compact over time and cause issues. Speciality plant aquarium sands like the new fluorite black sand, Hagen Geosystem substrate sand, and Seachem Onyx sand(will buffer water to a slightly higher PH) fit the 1MM grain size criteria and some say tend to grow plants as well or better than the regular Aquarium Plant substrates. In one of my low tech tanks, I use Seachem Onyx Sand over mulm and leonardite and what I like the best vs fluorite or SAS is the way that stem plants appear to root into and remain rooted in the sand. Plant growth is so good in this tank that I have been tempted to set up a high light tank with the same substrate just to see. Most people seem to have success with pool filter sand either alone or mixed with other substrates(to cut costs) like Schultz Aquatic Soil or fluorite. 

The cons of the sand is that it can be tricky to clean/siphon and if stirred up too much by bottom dwelling fish, can result in sand grains being disbursed all over the tank and ending up sucked through your filter. Some claim early damage to their impellers from sand that got pulled into the impeller, although you can always cover the suction inlet of your filter with a sponge to prevent any sand from getting sucked into the impeller.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

I have used sand several times. It grows plants fine but if I were you I would go Amazonia II all the way. Much better growth. Nothing I have ever used has grown plants better than AS.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I hate to be the jerk here, but this topic has been beaten to death. You just have to make up your mind and hit the floor running.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

fshfanatic said:


> I hate to be the jerk here, but this topic has been beaten to death. You just have to make up your mind and hit the floor running.


That is 100% true.


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