# Classroom Ecosystem



## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

I set up a planted tank for my daughter's kindergarten class. I've had planted tanks for years. I like the Walstad approach with an Amano aesthetic. For this tank I was hoping for a setup that would survive during the summer with little to no intervention. I was inspired by Tom's Bucket o' Mud and his ability to leave the tank alone for 6 weeks at a time. 

The tank I have to work with is a 20gal high tank. I put in a small power head (restricted) for circulation currently located at the top of the tank. I split the tank up with a plastic mesh to create a refugium against the back of the tank. So far I added gammarus (with green water), snails, and a mix of hitchhikers that came along with the gammarus. I seeded the whole tank with a good amount of filter sludge to aid in cycling. I'm adding moina in about a week and cherry shrimp not long after that. I'm also considering adding some blackworms. I'm interested in adding anything that will reproduce, without additional food, that could be eaten by small adult fish.

The tank is heavily planted with a variety of random plants (Az Gardens mixed potted plant special) and there's two anthuriums planted in shower caddies riparium style in the back and a good amount of driftwood. I'm covering most of the plastic mesh with java moss in a few days. I added some oak leaves to the refugium along with some hornwort that came with the scuds. I also plan to add some of the java moss back there as I know cherry shrimp love to breed in it. Substrate is a mix of Fluval Plant and Shrimp and black flourite. The light is Fluval Plant Spectrum 3.0.

For fish I was thinking a couple of otocinclus and around 10 white clouds to be added in about a month. Hoping that a low fish load will make this whole idea possible.

I could use some help with suggestions for making the refugium work (best organisms, approach, etc.) as well as it can. Anyone who's had experience with freshwater refugiums please share your wisdom.

Also all opinions/advice welcome! My goal is to make this a pretty self contained little ecosystem. I'm going to add a partial cover to the tank to minimize evaporation. I'm hoping this will be a no feed tank that only needs an occasional top up due to evaporation.

I'll post some pictures shortly and document the tank's progress here as it goes along.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

After seeing Michael Langerman's video I biked up to Central Park and collected a bunch of plants, a few leaves, and some snails. I'm hoping to make mini plastic cup tanks like Michael has for each of the kid's to take home. Additionally I'll culture some myself to add more diversity to the tank.


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

Very cool start. Looks like its going to be a interesting tank setup and I am sure the kids will love it. 

Not so sure how well leaving it over the summer will work with the fish but no expert myself on setups like this. You would be surprised at how quickly 10 of any predatory nano fish will clean out a tank of its small organisms. My 10G which has my betta and some amano shrimp had a huge amount of little critters and detrious worms cruising all over the tank. I added 5 chili rasboras and it was cleaned out in under a week. Well atleast all the stuff you could see anyway. 

Hopefully you can attain more of a balance with yours in that respect.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Thanks for your reply! Yeah I'm hoping to stock the hell out of the refugium with adult organisms that are too big to pass through the screen (shrimp, daphnia magna, etc.) The tank will find it's balance. It could end up that there's no fish left come start of school. Hoping it won't come to that.

Also hoping that rounding out the ecosystem as much as possible will lead to better health all the way up the food chain. We'll see.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

@Wasserpest Can you move this to Tank Journals? Didn't realize there was a category for them. Thanks!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Sure, not a problem.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

A few updates on the tank. In a different thread I asked for recommendations for fish for the tank and @tamsin recommended Endlers because they are bold and beautiful as opposed to CPDs which are also beautiful but shy. They also recommended only males which makes a lot of sense. So for now Endlers are my front runner. I read here that Endlers do not need a heater and that it may actually increase their longevity to have them in cooler water. I am considering hardening up the water a bit as I read that this is better for the shrimp and preferred by the Endlers.

I've been devouring all the old @auban posts and his tricks post was really illuminating. After reading it I bought Astaxanthin to make greenwater and Catappa Ketapang leaves to make black water.

I also decided to go back to the original Tom's Bucket o' Mud post that inspired this whole approach in the first place. I found his list of critters and basically ordered everything I was missing. 

Tom's list:

"I added (at various points), shrimp, Hyalella and several species of daphnia (big ones got gobbled up very fast but I have a tiny species that hangs on the substrate that still appears from nowhere whenever I have a tank without fish in it - a bit like a mini ostracod). Other than that ostracods, cyclops, freshwater limpets and various other microfauna seeded themselves really. Also had less welcome planaria, hydra and leeches at various points.

I've also now got Asellus and Lumbriculus in some tanks which both make excellent additions. My new Paros are going mad for the Lumbriculus - the worms bury in the substrate with one end waving in the air, which the Paros bite off with glee. Apparently just about any Lumbriculus segment is able to regenerate into an entire worm so they should just grow back."

I already had the scuds and shrimp are coming soon. I ordered moina and daphnia magna which should arrive shortly. I found the Lumbriculus at Carolina Biological supply and they seem like the perfect worm. Thinking I need to add to the mulm before the worms arrive. There's currently a thin layer of filter sludge which will be a good start but I'll need more. I've been collecting oak leaves. Maybe I can make some kind of slurry in the blender with them. I also want to add nori which my cherries have loved in the past and it really makes their color pop. 

Found this nice mix of crustaceans (Daphnia, Alonella, copepods, ostracods, aquatic isopods, amphipods) from Carolina which should just about complete Tom's list. Well everything but the limpets and the Asellus. Although Tom did so much wild collecting who knows what else was in there.

My java moss order finally arrived and like a dumb ass I only ordered one portion when the seller who was running a 2 for 1 sale had agreed to send me 5 for the price of 2. Doh! I ordered a few other orders from another seller. Hopefully it's enough. I want enough to cover most of the refugium mesh and some to add to the refugium.

Also I'm having thoughts about my pond collection. I'm not seeing any ostracods which are what I was really hoping for and I'd rather not get any weird worms that won't be helpful. I think I may just return the samples to where I got them from. Thoughts?


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

This morning I checked on the tank and the greenwater is getting thicker. On the one hand I'm glad. I added greenwater to help support the scuds and daphnia (I'll be adding shortly) and other infusoria but on the other hand aesthetically the greenwater makes the tank look bad. The teachers in the class understand that this is an ecosystem tank and that the water won't be crystal clear but there's still part of me that wants to throw a filter in there and make the water clear. Hopefully the addition of the daphnia will help increase clarity a bit. Sometimes in the pursuit of aesthetics we compromise the health of our tanks I think.


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## CatsMeow (Nov 9, 2009)

Great thread - and good on you for doing this in a classroom! I bet those kids love it! My son's pre-k class has a 10 gallon tank with 2 goldfish (that are each about 1/3 the size of the tank). Makes me so, so sad. 



rakali said:


> Sometimes in the pursuit of aesthetics we compromise the health of our tanks I think.


Absolutely. Clear water is beautiful, but when you look at bodies of water in nature, often they are green, or brown. And life thrives. Too bad a lot of newbies to the hobby are coached/chastised that these things are "bad" when in fact, they are signs of health for an ecosystem.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Did a little presentation on the tank for the kids today. They seemed to enjoy it.

Bought a cover to help with evaporation and bought a mount for the heater the tank came with that was missing. LFS said set it to 78.

Adding two peace lillies tomorrow. Bought some dollar store jars for setting up some daphnia and other cultures in case the tank crashes.

Bought some crushed coral that I'm going to put in the refugium to up the PH and the GH. LFS said shrimp will need it.

I'm going away for a week starting Saturday. Hopefully nothing freaks out. Lots of organisms arriving this week (daphnia, moina, blackworms, asellus, ostracods, isopods).

Here's the slide I made to show our little ecosystem.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Today I fitted the cover and it was too big. I looked up a glass cutting place and realized how few are left. People don't hang pictures or art much anymore. When I finally did find someone he cut the glass for free.

I added two peace lillies as was suggested here and at my LFS. The shower caddies are now full. 

I added the crushed coral and I think I got a slight bump in PH to 6.8 but with these test strips it's hard to tell. But at least things are headed in the right direction.

I added the heater which was missing mounts (I bought some yesterday) and set it to 76. LFS said 78 but I figured better to get there gradually. 

The big news is the mixed crustaceans arrived from Carolina Biological. I was happy to see daphnia, ostracods, and copepods but so dissapointed to see no asellus that I called them. They said you get whatever is available but did offer to refund. I accepted the explanation and told them it wasn't necessary. If anyone has some aselus they'd be willing to share I'd appreciate it. We've blown through our budget.

I also got black worms. It's funny because I was thinking about black worms because I fed them to puffers in the past and then I saw Tom mention Lumbriculus and I ordered them thinking they were some kind of fancy worm not realizing they were just black worms. I looked up how to culture them and found this informative page. They recommend chopping the worms up to stimulate regeneration and to increase the size of your culture. I had to psyche myself up a bit to do it but the deed is done.

I now have two culture jars set up in the classroom. One with the crustaceans and one with the worms. I'll be setting up a daphnia only one shortly too when the big daphnia order arrives. I'll also have eggs for daphnia magna that I need to hatch and add over the next few weeks.

It was good to see the tank with more emergent plants and all the little critters swimming around. Numbers still look good too.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

How about some photos or videos?


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Streetwise said:


> How about some photos or videos?


I'll take some this morning. I was thinking the same thing last night.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

@Streetwise Here's some pictures and videos from this morning. Next time I'll shoot with a polarizing filter to minimize the reflection.



















This is the refugium. It's sits behind a screen in the tank. It currently contains oak leaves, Indian Almond leaves, java moss, hornwort, and some cooked vegetables I added last night.










That's my daughter pointing out a snail. The teacher and I discussed creating laminated cards that list all the organisms for the children to find and identify. We want to turn it into a game.










These are the culture jars. I set them up by mixing filter sludge in with the gravel and water. They both contain hornwort, small pieces of java moss, and cooked vegetables. The jar on the left is the Carolina Biological mixed crustaceans and the jar on the right is black worm. The water is cloudy because it's greenwater from the tank.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Cool tanks! I see a snail fan and some big root systems.

Cheers


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Great thread! Lucky kids!

Loving the anthurium--now i gotta get some for the back of my tank. Makes a great tropical look. How long have yours been in? How much light do they get, and do they continue to flower? Do they do as well as the peace lilies?


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

This tank is only a bit over two weeks old. This is my first riparium. This tank is in front of a window that faces west and gets partial sun. Also because it's a classroom there are bright flourescents overhead. From a plant care website I read the following


> Anthurium plants can tolerate all levels of indirect light, but anthuriums growing in low light will have fewer flowers and will grow slower. These plants cannot tolerate direct light however, as this can burn the leaves. It grows best in bright, indirect light.


 The guy in my LPS said peace lillies were low light but I didn't double check. If you look up anthuriums grown in water you'll see it's pretty common. Good luck with yours!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

It honestly looks really good, and again I apologize for taking your post in the other thread out of context.

I think neocaridina shrimp might be a good possibility for the refugium.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

No worries. My post needed more context. I understand why you read it that way. Cherries arrive in two weeks!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

rakali said:


> No worries. My post needed more context. I understand why you read it that way. Cherries arrive in two weeks!




Awesome, can’t wait to see the progress!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Away for the week and already missing the tank. Wondering how it's doing? Are levels good? Are organisms thriving or declining? I think I messed up those culture jars. Too much filter bacteria. One of them seemed funky. Hopefully the whole culture doesn't die off. Also the substrate was releasing bubbles. Makes me think things were not going well. In hindsight all they needed was greenwater. Hopefully they pull through.


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## N7QL (Mar 13, 2018)

Rakali I am very impressed. In a way you are doing what I am trying to do myself. I have a grow-out tank full of scuds, pods and cods. I intend to make an order for aquatic isopods and a few others. I like how you are allowing your plants in the fuge section to grow emerged. I am going to do that also with cattails, Temple Compactus, and a few native plants. I am going for a build that would remind one in a way of a reef tank but without the expense. I too am striving for as much diversity as possible. One of the most impressive aspects of your setup is that it is in a 20 high yet it is so well put together so it seems larger than it might otherwise. I also like the refugium idea. It is awesome that you are inspiring your students, presenting fish keeping and teaching them about all the different creatures one can find in freshwater. Bravo! Almost forgot to tell you that the bubbles you see are likely CO2 from decaying bits of organic material in the soil. I have them too.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Thanks so much. I'd love to see your tank and I'll accept your request as soon as I can figure out how to do it on my phone. Also the bubbles I was referring to are in the culture jars not the main tank thankfully. I believe you are correct. Probably the cooked vegetables I added. I think I went a little overboard and put too much in.


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## N7QL (Mar 13, 2018)

How much of the cooked veggies did you put in? If you only added little pieces to each jar all is good. The planktonic animals and algaes will benefit but if you put a lot in the resulting ammonia spike could wipe out everything in those jars including the greenwater. Those jars are 1 quart Mason jars it looks like. I seem to remember the pic of your jars and I don't think you overdid it. Now if there was no substrate I'd be much more worried. I need to get some live blackworms to culture speaking of culture jars. 

I just looked at the pic of the jars. You definitely did not over do it with the veggies. You may want to get a strainer lid for each culture jar so they get O2 if you haven't already. Of course you can put some air holes in the normal lids if you don't want to purchase strainer lids. 

I can't wait to see this build come together considering the great start so far. I am subscribing to this thread for certain!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Thanks for your feedback. I punched holes in the lid but at least one of them seemed pretty funky. On the plus side if there is a little ammonia spike I told the teacher to add some of it to the tank so it will aid in further cycling. I'll know tomorrow how they are doing. I got a small order of black worms from Carolina Biological. Look them up by their scientific name if you don't have another source. I remember when you could get them at LFSs.


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## N7QL (Mar 13, 2018)

Oh I have been looking at them for a few species I want in addition to the blackworms. I might be able to get them locally at a real LFS (ie not a big box store). It is where I am getting my clams.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

*Week 3 Update*

Back from vacation and tank is looking great. Daphnia population exploded while I was away and cleared most of the greenwater which is great for visibility but not so great for the daphnia population which is probably going to crash if I don't get more quick or add yeast I guess. I got some ASTAXANTHIN powder to make greenwater as @auban suggested but the quantity is pretty small and I'm not 100% sure it's going to work. Might just add it to the tank and see what happens. Might also reach out to the person who sold me my scuds, which came in greenwater, and see if they can sell me just greenwater. If anyone has greenwater they'd like to donate I'd appreciate it. Happy to pay for shipping.

Thinking of setting up an auto top up with a plastic bin filled with greenwater to keep the daphnia going and to combat evaporation which seems to be an issue with this heated tank. I've never set up an auto top up so if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great. I have no running water in the space but there's power and a space to put a bin below (behind) or above the tank.

Added some filter media to the outside of the power head just to disperse the suction of the inlet a bit so as not to suck in too many organisms. Added some java moss to the refugium although it wasn't looking too good by the time I got it in the tank. I'm going to add a light to the back of the tank for the plants in the refugium. The refugium screen really cuts the light down.

The culture jars crashed as expected. They really stank when I cleaned them. Set up another one with just gravel and tank water for Moina and some Daphnia Magna just as insurance. Probably need to add yeast or spirulina to that pretty soon. Hoping the other organisms like the blackworms will reproduce enough in the refugium that another back up culture will be unnecessary. Right now everything seems happy. Worms are all over the substrate. I see copepods zipping by, scuds are happy, seed shrimp are multiplying. So far everything I've put in the tank seems ok with the exception of a few of the plants.

Cherries arrive this week and I think the tank is ready for them. The numbers have been rock solid for 3 weeks and the crushed coral I added brought the PH up to 6.8 which is right where I want it. I've added fish food to the tank a few times in the hopes that it will help ensure cycling has occurred. The snails certainly make a lot of waste so from a bio load perspective I'm hoping the RCS will be fine.

Here's the latest pictures and some videos that really show the daphnia. it kind of amazes me that this tank is only 3 weeks old.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

RCS arrived today and I added them to the tank. They came in two little bags so one went in the refugium and one went in the main tank. I'm going to add nori tomorrow. It's my cherry secret weapon. They love it and it seems to make their color really pop. Also in my experience it doesn't foul the tank.

I'm a little worried about the daphnia population crashing. The greenwater was completely gone this morning. The water was crystal clear. I added some spirulina and barley grass powder. I mixed a small amount in a jar with some tank water and then added it to the tank. Does anyone have a recommendation for daphnia feeding amounts? I read somewhere that you really don't want to overfeed them. I'm worried the greenwater may have done just that. Thoughts?

I'll add some pictures of the RCS in the tank/refugium tomorrow. I had this panicked thought that the babies would be too big to pass through the refugium mesh but I can see that won't be a problem.

With the daphnia multiplying like crazy I'm considering introducing the Endlers sooner than later to cull the population a little. Another alternative would be to set up little pasta sauce jar mini tanks with daphnia for each kid. I'd need to make about 20 of them. I could send them home with some barley grass/spirulina mix and some small spoon for feeding. Need to find the magic amount that would keep them alive but not reproducing so much to fill the jar. Thoughts?


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

RCS seem to be doing well. Attempted version 1 of an auto top off. Failed because I am trying to use gravity feed and the container I was using is not solid so it just crushes as the water pours out of it. Version 2 will use a more rigid water cooler bottle.

Just received my little clip on polarizer but not before I took the photo of the refugium with the big light reflection.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

My daphnia do quite well just on decomposing leaves, without the water going green at all. Need to keep up with adding the leaves as they decompose. I usually use raspberry leaves (fresh not dried) as I have some growing and some catappa leaves too.

I would be inclined to go for leaf matter over chunks of human cultivated veggies. It's more natural for most critters including the shrimps and less likely to cause problems left uneaten. Bramble/blackberry leaves are another fairly common one and similar to raspberry you could feed if you have them available. Have a look at what's available locally and maybe tree/plant identification and a bit of foraging is another option to add to the educational aspect 

I have a tank of critters on my window sill, I'll try and remember to take a pic for you tomorrow... it's dark now and it's not lit.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Thanks @tamsin that's good info. I have more oak leaves that the kids collected. I've been adding them to the refugium but maybe it's time to add some to the main tank. They are dry leaves though. Will they work as well? They aren't totally brown but they are dry. I added more spirulina and barley grass powder tonight before I left the tank for the weekend. I'm thinking if worse comes to worse I'll just give a bunch of the daphnia away or maybe sell them to help recoup some of the tank cost for the school.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

For the people following this thread a question. Should I put just male Endlers in the tank assuring that there will be no breeding or should I put 2 or 3 Endlers and mix the sexes and allow for mating. The pros in my mind are the kids could see baby fish born in the tank which is always a thrill. The cons are over the summer the population might get out of hand and food could become scarce. I could cull the tank right before the summer leaving just a few fish and hope for the best. Also how long does it take for an Endler to reach maturity? If there's a bunch of 3 month old Endlers after the summer maybe that's not the worst thing. The tank is pretty stocked right now with daphnia, scuds, blackworms, copepods, and more. Thoughts?


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

The trouble is they are prolific, one female can produce 10-20 babies and they do so on a 4 week cycle. They are also three times the size of the males so will eat more and larger food. I think you'd struggle to get the balance you want with females in there too.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Great point @tamsin ! Back to plan A. Just a few males.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Here's a pic of my little tank. Last two years I've emptied it into an outdoor tub in spring and then back in autumn. There are a few cherry shrimp, daphnia, planaria, asellus etc. bumbling around in there. As you can see though, the water is slightly tannin stained but clear - the green in back is algae.



It's about the point I should add some more leaf matter in. You can see most in there are going slightly transparent. I find oak leaves are quite long lasting, so I don't know if they'd be as good food as the ones that decompose faster. I think beech, birch are safe too and I'm sure quite a few others.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

I think I sorted out the auto top off. I bought a wide mouth 5 gallon water bottle and fitted it with a valve from a plumbing supply store. In my test it drips intermittently as the bubbles make their way in although it seems to be a bit temperamental. I'm going to turn it on it's side and run a hose from it to the tank tomorrow and see if I can get it to work. Luckily I have a bit of time to get it right before the next break. Also going to add a light to the bottle and grow some greenwater in it.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

So pretty major daphnia die off over the weekend. It was to be expected I guess now that the greenwater supply is gone. Don't get me wrong there are still tons of daphnia in the tank but nowhere as many as there were. Also the die off doesn't seem to have effected water quality. No detectable spike. The daphnia culture jar seems to be ok so worst case I can add some from there in the future if the numbers keep going down. Also I'm working on a greenwater top off more about that below.

Tank is looking good IMHO. I looked back over the last few photos and growth has been explosive. Made a GIF to illustrate. Photos were taken on Sept 19, Oct 8, and Oct 15.










Here's the latest photo full size.










Added the auto top off container. Probably going to make it vertical tomorrow for easier top ups. It's gravity feed right now. Not 100% confident in it but I'll know if it's working over the next few weeks. I can always add more tech to make it work more reliably if necessary. Also I put a grow light under it (running 24hrs a day) so hopefully I can get some greenwater growing in there. I'm going to add some of the Astaxanthin powder to it to see if that does anything. Also I found a person on Aquabid selling some green powder for $5 with shipping that's supposed to work. Might add that too. I meant to put some mesh over the tube inlet but forgot. Clever snail got in there within 15 minutes and went exploring. It's like a snail habitrail. 










You can just see the grow light peeking out on the right.










The run to the tank with the new refugium light down below.










Snail Habitrail


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Today's pics. Not much to report. Cleaned front of tank. Inverted auto top off bottle. I don't think gravity feed is going to work the way I have it setup. Might switch to a more tech solution or figure out how to make this work.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

rakali said:


> Today's pics. Not much to report. Cleaned front of tank. Inverted auto top off bottle. I don't think gravity feed is going to work the way I have it setup. Might switch to a more tech solution or figure out how to make this work.




That is beautiful!!!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

After looking again at Tom's Bucket o' Mud Tom's Bucket o' Mud I was really impressed how densely planted his tank was and I decided to add a dwarf hairgrass carpet. Just ordered some off ebay it should arrive next week. I think this will add more plants which is great and more places for organisms to hide in the main area which should help prevent the Endlers from eating everything in sight.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

I'd be inclined to double your leaf litter - there isn't that much if you imagine it spread out over the full area of the tank. I think a bit denser might help your daphnia/critter population. I'd keep it full to the bottom of the planters.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

@tamsin thanks for the tip I'll add more this morning. I also want some space for hornwort and Java moss back there. I'll make room!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Added more leaves (oak and indian almond) as per @tamsin suggestion. Added them to the refugium and to the main area in the back up against the refugium mesh out of site. I also added nori to the refugium and the main area.

Nitrates are up ever so slightly but not even registering on the chart so I'm not too worried. Spoke to the principal today and offered to spec out a cheaper version of this tank for other classrooms. 

Going to need to sort out the auto top off soon. Think I'm going to reach out to the DIY auto top off guy and see what he suggests.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Little Peristaltic pumps are not that expensive if you roll your own, just need a timer and power supply.

https://www.amazon.com/INTLLAB-Peri...ocphy=9024247&hvtargid=pla-435238445446&psc=1


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> Little Peristaltic pumps are not that expensive if you roll your own, just need a timer and power supply.


I'd be concerned that a timed pump would deliver too much or too little based on varying evaporation due to environmental factors but I'm basing that on a greenwall I have where the amount of water varies so much from day to day. Maybe in a system this small it's less variable. With the gravity feed already setup I think I just need a valve on a timer. If that doesn't work then I'd add a sensor to control the valve to be more exact. Thanks for the suggestion though. I'll keep this in mind.

So today's update guess who's back... the greenwater! Even though the tank looked crystal clear just a few days ago it's starting to cloud up again. 

These are the possible contributing factors:

1. Daphnia Die off
2. Accidentally left refugium light on for 24hrs yesterday (changed back to 12hr cycle)
3. Accidentally dumped some of the auto top off water into the tank which had Astaxanthin powder in it

It's funny because I want greenwater in the tank for all the critters but aesthetically I prefer clear water. When I see a cloudy tank I immediately subconsciously think something's wrong but I'll get over it eventually.

The powerhead stopped which was a bit of a pain. I think it's too close to the top of the tank and it's sucking in air. I'm going to flip it over tomorrow and that should fix things. The water should never get low enough that it's sucking air with it upside down.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Watched some DIY auto top off videos and bought $40 worth of stuff that should do it. I'll document once I've set it up. It will still be gravity feed but this time with a float switch and a solenoid.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Powerhead was off again when I checked this morning. I inverted it so I'm hoping that will keep it running better. Honestly what I need to do is just put it lower down. That means patching the hole in the refugium mesh and making a new one down lower. I'll see how it goes inverted but that's the next step.

DIY ATO stuff is coming this week. Hoping that will be a straightforward setup and work with the gravity feed I currently have setup.

The greenwater in the ATO barrel is coming along nicely. Daphnia population continues to dwindle. Not exactly sure why. Back up culture is coming along nicely so I guess I'll add them when the numbers get really low. At a certain point though the tank will either support daphnia or it won't. I can't keep adding them. That defeats the point of the setup.

Everything else seems to be ok. Blackworms are everywhere! They even manage to climb up the refugium wall. Scuds are reproducing. Snails have completely exploded with tiny baby snails covering everything. RCS seem happy although there was one dead adult in the refugium. 

Going to wait for the RCS to have babies in the tank before I add the Endlers I think.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

A few updates. Shrimp body seems to have disappeared. I think I can see some of the legs left. Could it have been a molt? Numbers haven't budged. Worms are everywhere and they are getting big. Little scuds are swimming around and they are adorable. I think one of the shrimp is berried. Yay! Noticed the refugium mesh is growing algae nicely. The shrimp are climbing all over it and picking it off. I guess the mesh does add a lot of beneficial surface area. Hairgrass arrives this week along with ATO stuff. Also considering adding some frogbit to the area just in front of the refugium. Thoughts?


















This is where the shrimp was. I think I see some legs above and left of the leaf.



























Hard to tell from this angle but I think this is the berried female.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

A moult is transparent, a dead shrimp is usually pinky looking. The first photo of a shrimp is has a white line across the back - like it's splitting - that can be a sign of moulting issues (which is a common cause of death). Have you tested your water? I can't remember whether you've said what it's like, if it's very soft it might need a little crushed coral or similar to make sure there are enough minerals for the shrimp.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

tamsin said:


> A moult is transparent, a dead shrimp is usually pinky looking. The first photo of a shrimp is has a white line across the back - like it's splitting - that can be a sign of moulting issues (which is a common cause of death). Have you tested your water? I can't remember whether you've said what it's like, if it's very soft it might need a little crushed coral or similar to make sure there are enough minerals for the shrimp.


I added crushed coral a few weeks ago. Ironically crushed coral is directly above that spot. I'll agitate the crushed coral bag a bit. That usually makes it drop coral bits. The water isn't super soft.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Shook the bag of crushed coral out in the main tank to help bring up the hardness for the shrimp. There was an amazing little slow motion snowfall of coral dust all over the tank. The powerhead was stopped again. I need to move it lower down but that will take some doing. Hopefully I'll have time and the right tools with me tomorrow. Numbers looked good. Nothing much to report. Female shrimp definitely looks berried.









Haze in the water is the crushed coral dust. It settled out by the time I left.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Not much to report today. Tank looks good. Numbers are the same. Powerhead was still going amazingly. Water looked remarkably clear. Daphnia population is hanging on but not looking great. I decided to add some from the culture jar. I'm not sure how much conditions are going to change in the tank. If the daphnia aren't thriving I'm just going to let it go eventually. Also to get specific it appears that it's the moina that are hanging on not daphnia magna which I had read are much trickier to keep going. 

If the goal of the tank is to be self sustaining I wonder if the daphnia are even really necessary. The worms are doing so well I wonder if the worms will end up being the staple food for the Endlers with an occasional baby scud etc. Maybe the RCS are just a nice to have too. 

If I had to make another tank with the sole goal of being self sustaining I think I'd add the micro-organisms (copepods, seed shrimp), snails, scuds, and worms and only maybe moina. I'm starting to think the RCS aren't really that crucial to the system. I'm glad they are in there as they are fascinating for the kids to see and they are beautiful but they are a nice to have.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Steady as she goes. Still waiting on the hairgrass which I expected to have by now. Need to check shipping on that. ATO bits arrive next week. Hoping to get some older kids in the school to help with setting that up. Daphnia count appears to be up with the addition of the ones I added yesterday so I guess that's good.

So this is a no water change tank and for anyone who said you need water changes for RCS check this out. Every tank in the shop is no water change. If your system is balanced (and I'm not saying mine is) you don't need water changes just top ups.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Planted the hairgrass this morning. While planting I noticed a small reddish/pinkish worm on my hand which lead to a panic. Was this a planaria! I'd heard terrible things about them but recently heard that maybe they aren't that bad. Luckily none of the hairgrass was in the tank at that point. I googled fishtank worms and as best as I can tell these are most likely Glycera. I'm not 100% sure but most of the quick searching I did said the worst worms were pretty small and I found two of these and one was over an inch but very thin. I'd rather have more worms in the tank as long as they aren't a dangerous kind. 

Haven't planted hairgrass in many years. Watched a video (i'll post below) last week and was reminded that I needed to break it into small pieces. Planting went well. Had more than I needed so some will go in the home tank. Tomorrow I'll clean up that gravel edge a bit. I was in a hurry this morning.

Frogbit arrives this week. Looking forward to adding a floating plant. Going to restrict it to the back half of the main tank area.

Ran a test of the electronic components and got the relay and the float switch working. Thought I had the solenoid working too but then I noticed it was leaking when it was shut so I returned it. Looking like I'm going to get the exact same one again which doesn't give me a lot of confidence. If that fails I will have a big leak. If anyone has any suggestions let me know.

Listened to an Aquarium Co-Op live stream on planted tanks that seem to validate a lot of what I'm trying to do. I'll post that below also.









Hairgrass just planted









Mystery worms


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Not sure what those particular worms are, but I wouldn't worry about planaria in that sort of tank. They'll just be part of the eco system and once you add fish would probably disappear/be limited anyway. They are more of an issue in invertebrate only tanks as then they have no predators.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

rakali said:


> Listened to an Aquarium Co-Op live stream on planted tanks that seem to validate a lot of what I'm trying to do. I'll post that below also.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT5ow2ZI1Oo


Looks like it's coming along nicely!

That Aquarium Coop link looked interesting, so clicked on it. But then looked at the time stamp & realized it's over 2 hrs long. Like this guy's (shorter) vids and sounds like he's got lots of good ideas. But why can't these people with that much to say just write an article, rather than expect us to sit through 2 hrs of a talking head? Who's got that kind of time LOL


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Grass looked ok. Seemed like the grass brought more life out. Trumpet snails were around the bottom. Many scuds playing and of course the worms. Hoping that when the fish are in there the grass provides a refuge for critters in the main part of the tank.

I added some frogbit. I had hoped it would have some nice long dangly roots. Didn't seem to have any (yet). Also didn't have time to sequester them in the back of the tank. For now they'll just float around.

Ordered a new solenoid just the same as the one that failed. Wondering if maybe the power was wrong. It's 12V but maybe I used too many amps? Not sure. Hoping not to break this one. Couldn't find a rating on it. Might do some more research or reach to the DIYATO guy.

Daphnia are coming back. Not sure if it's the ones I added the other day or new ones. Also been topping up with the greenwater from the container. Maybe that's helping. Who knows.

Took the crushed coral bag from the back and gave it a good shake in the front of the tank again. Tank looked like a weird planted snowglobe again when I left.

Emergent plants seem to be doing nicely. 


















Look who's back!


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## N7QL (Mar 13, 2018)

The worms almost look like leeches. I have one like the ones in your "mystery worm" photo. If it swims through the water I would bet on them being leeches. Most leeches here in the US are carnivorous instead of sanguivorous; eating things like small worms, small pieces of fish, etc. They don't go after live fish or anything. Mine likes to burrow in fact much the way earthworms do. They can also climb the sides of the tank using the suckers they have at the head and tail. 

The tank looks awesome. I hope the kids are enjoying it. They're lucky to have you as their teacher. Instilling a love of nature from now almost certainly ensures that they will carry that love with them their whole lives. 

P.S. planaria are not bad and do add to the biodiversity as long as the tank is not overfed, much like "pest" snails and the like. The only bad thing is that few fishes eat them so if they do get out of hand you will have much gravel vacuuming to do.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

N7QL said:


> They're lucky to have you as their teacher. Instilling a love of nature from now almost certainly ensures that they will carry that love with them their whole lives.


Thanks! I'm not their teacher I'm just a parent of one of the kids in the class. I'm going to work with the teacher to create a little treasure hunt identification game for the kids. He just ordered some magnifying glasses to aid in identification and exploration.


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## NotCousteau (Sep 25, 2014)

Cool tank and idea. Daphnia are hard to keep alive indoors. I gave up on that and culture them outside and they just explode every year with no care from me. They've even done well in a 3-gallon bucket. It's amazing how easy they are to raise outdoors.

It may be worth just keeping that tank an invertebrate tank. Any fish will wipe out the the scuds, daphnia, etc. Just my two cents.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

NotCousteau said:


> Cool tank and idea. Daphnia are hard to keep alive indoors. I gave up on that and culture them outside and they just explode every year with no care from me. They've even done well in a 3-gallon bucket. It's amazing how easy they are to raise outdoors.
> 
> It may be worth just keeping that tank an invertebrate tank. Any fish will wipe out the the scuds, daphnia, etc. Just my two cents.


Thanks! My plan is to have a very low fish population. 3-5 male Endlers is what I'm thinking. The tank has a refugium so the hope is scuds, shrimp, and daphnia will always have a safe place to reproduce. Also if I had to guess right now I'd say blackworms will be the number one food source. They have really established themselves throughout the tank. I don't have much hope for the daphnia but we'll see. I could put them in the greenwater bottle but the population would probably explode and crash. Maybe if it was just moina and not pulex it would be ok.

I wonder what factors keep them alive outdoors.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Didn't think there would be much to do today but I ended up doing a few things that took some time. Noticed the ATO barrel was at about halfway down so I decided to top it up. Mixed up a batch of greenwater. First I used a water conditioner then I added spirulina, barley grass, and then a tiny bit of the astaxanthin powder. Shook it up and added it to the barrel. Noticed there's a bunch of copepods in there along with the snails. The snails have even laid eggs in there which is great honestly. More snail poop in there means more greenwater. I topped up the barrel and wrote down the date on a piece of tape. Now I can track the tanks evaporation rate. Also ordered a new solenoid which arrived today. Hopefully I can get the ATO setup by the end of the week. Honestly more likely it will be next week.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Today I wanted to show you all just how teeming with life the little tank is. I shot a few clips and strung them together on my phone. You'll see scuds and worms, red cherry shrimp and snails, lots of daphnia (there's more than you can really see with the camera), and finally the refugium (scuds, worms, moina and others (RCS not shown but they are in there and seem happy). There's basically life everywhere! 

Makes me want to just add the Endlers at this point because I think there's probably enough places for baby RCS to hide in the main tank and they can breed unmolested in the refugium. Other than the RCS fry I'm not worried about the Endlers wiping anything out except possibly the moina but I have the culture jar as a back up and so far they are doing really well.

Does anyone recommend a specific type of Endler or a place to get them? I'm new to them. I see plenty of them on Aquabid. I need 3-5 males and because the school is paying I need to keep costs down.

The video is 1080 so you can watch it full screen if you'd like.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Everything looks good. Got some nice shots of the berried RCS. Frogbit roots are growing in fast. I used some green floral wire to go from the heater to a spare suction cup to corral them in the back 3rd of the tank. Replanted some hairgrass that had come loose. Nothing else to report.

I'm thinking tiger endlers might be a good contrast in the tank and they look lovely. Anyone have any experience with them?









Very berried


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Had a thought to add a greenhouse cover to the tank during the summer to reduce evaporation. What do you think?


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

A fair amount of water had evaporated over the weekend. I topped it up manually by pulling the plug at the top of the barrel. I'm setting up the ATO this week. Ordered the last piece I needed and also found out that I hadn't broken the solenoid but that they leak a bit. Hoping it won't be an issue. Might be able to strike a bit of a balance between the leak and the evaporation. Or could possibly run two solenoids in sequence to make a kind of pressure gate with the first one. More testing required.

Tank looks good. Life everywhere. Daphnia are doing well. Lot's of adult scuds zooming around. Saw a young shrimp but don't think they were born in the tank. 

Added a bit of nori to the daphnia culture and to the front and back fo the tank (for the RCS) as per @tamsin comment about adding some food that will stick around a bit for the daphnia vs greenwater which gets consumed and it's gone. I have a theory that nori is basically like fishfood without the worry of tank fouling. I'd be curious if other people have tried it and what their results were.

Noticed a bunch of holes in the plant leaves. A bit troubling but in some ways nothing to worry about. Aesthetically it bugs me a little but honestly I was a bit worried about the rapid growth of the stem plants. If they can be kept in check by whatever's eating them (I expect snails) then that's a good thing. Once again my desire for the tank to "look good" is clouding my understanding of what makes a healthy ecosystem. Also I believe the snails only eat leaves that are rotting. I saw some spots on the leaves so perhaps that's what was eaten. I'll keep an eye on it.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Guess who's back! Daphnia moina are everywhere. Also the culture jar is doing really well. I might split the culture up into the other two jars and maybe start selling them. If anyone wants moina let me know. Might be cool to send them in mason jars so that they are ready to go as little culture jars. I'd include a little vented lid. Hmm. You can see how well mine is doing below.

Tank seems to be doing well. I've got almost everything I need working for the ATO. Just need a bit of extra wire to get things in place and I need to build brackets to hold the float switches. I ended up using both. I'm running one to sense low depth and I'm using the other as a fail safe for the upper limit in case the level gets too high. 

Looked like the PH was around 7.8. It seems to be steadily climbing. I added two indian almond leaves to bring it down a bit and I'm hoping for a little brown water before I get the fish in. So far the leaves have never seemed to color the water. Do you think I should pull the bag of crushed coral out of the tank temporarily? I read that as PH goes up it leeches slower. Thoughts?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

That is so cool! Keep up the good work!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Not much to report. I removed the crushed coral to lower the PH but then felt a little bad for all the little critters that were hanging out in there. Started two more moina jars with the jars that had previously crashed. Somehow they still had a little water in the gravel and they were still a little funky. I rinsed them pretty well so I'm hoping that doesn't effect the cultures. I used my back up green water that was in the camping container. Not sure if that water has gotten funky. I probably should have used the water in the ATO barrel but that would have required a little more effort. We'll see how they do tomorrow. 

Brought in the ATO hardware and checked the float switch location and height. It seems hard to find a float switch bracket so I ended up buying the cheapest float switch with a decent bracket. The float switches that come with it won't fit in this tank so I'll probably try to give them away. It was worth it to buy them to get the right bracket. Looking like the ATO will be set up next week. 

I suspect the moina are thriving because I have been manually topping up from the green water barrel. It'll be interesting to see if the moina can hold on once the endlers are there. If they will continue to survive and reproduce in the refugium. I know they are in there and the ATO greenwater feeds right into there. 

So in addition to the snails and cyclops that are in the ATO barrel today I saw the first scud. I'm hoping the moina don't get in there. I'm worried they'll explode wipe out the greenwater and then crash. It may be inevitable. Also I'm pretty sure I'll need 1 if not 2 more barrels if I have any hope of getting through the summer without topping up the barrels in person. Apparently the principal will be in the building and can give me access. It will be interesting to see how long one barrel lasts. I feel like it's going down pretty quick.

I reached out to an endler breeder from Aquabid via email but haven't heard back. I explained I was looking for 5 juvenile males from different strains. Hoping he can give me a decent price. Lately I have been buying stuff and not asking for a reimbursement but I had planned to pass the cost of the endlers on to the school as their last expense for the project.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Ok so the jars I used for the two new daphnia culture jars are the ones that had crashed and they stunk. There was a bit of water still in the bottom of the gravel but I rinsed it out. Today the jars look clearer and the daphnia seemed to me doing ok but they stunk a little. I checked the water I had in the camping container and I think that was the culprit. I think bacteria have been feeding on the spirulina and barley grass that was in the water. I think the daphnia will be fine I just hope the stink goes away.

Tank looked good. Holes in leaves are a bit worrisome. I think the big stem plant on the right has been getting yellow spots and then the snails are able to eat the leaf. Not sure what's causing the yellow but also I'm not going to change anything significant to fix it. Ultimately it's good if the plant gets eaten and I need to get over the holes in the leaves.

Haven't heard back from the Aquabid endler person. The name on the account is Livefins. Anyone had an experience with them? Anyone else you'd recommend? I'm looking for 5 juvenile males all from different strains.

The additional almond leaves seem to have finally colored the water a bit. I noticed a slight tinge of brown this morning. Also hoping that brings down the PH but it hasn't budged yet.

There was a cloud of baby daphnia in the middle of the tank. They seem to be drawn to the light. I took a turkey baster and sucked up a bunch and put them in the refugium. I'm hoping the light back there will keep their attention and they will stay there and multiply. I know there's already some there but the population explosion appears to be in the front of the tank when I'd rather it was in the refugium.

A few blades of the hairgrass are getting quite long. I'm thinking I'll just let it go although I do have some nice long surgical scissors if I decide to trim it back. i thought I read something about trimming it and some positive effect but I'll need to look that up again.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Okay I decided the time had come to order the endlers. Big thanks to @tamsin for recommending them to me on another thread. I really liked the idea of each one looking differently so kid's could recognize and track them in the tank as well as pick their favorites. Livefins got back to me and is going to give me a great deal on 5 fish. I asked for juveniles so the kids could watch them mature. I went so far as to say I'd even be happy with fry. Not sure how big they need to be to sex them but I'm sure he knows. They should be here this week or next. These are the strains I got.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Excited that the fish should be here tomorrow. Hoping they get to me in the AM so I can get them in the tank first thing otherwise I either have to leave work dash home then to the school and then back to work which isn't ideal or I can wait one more day. Maybe I can float them in my tank at home until the morning.

Tank is looking good this AM. Daphnia cloud is still going strong. I included a little video but you don't get a sense for just how many there are from it.

Plant on the right is really getting chewed up but it's also the fastest growing and the only one that was threatening to take over the tank so in the end I think it's a good thing. The plant grows well so if it becomes food for snails or shrimp or scuds that's great. Light feeds plant, plant feeds critters, critters feed fish. Aesthetics be damned!

One of the soap caddies slipped and fell to the bottom of the refugium leaving the anthurium dangling. I fixed it but the leaf litter under it got a bit smashed down. Might make room for the hornwort so probably not a bad thing. If you plan to use them in your tank you may want to snug them up occasionally.

The mounts I bought for the float switches seem like they will work with the addition of some washers. I'll need to do a hardware store run to get the right wire, some crimp connectors, and the washers. Installing the ATO is looking like a multi-morning process which is fine because it's easy enough to top off manually in the meantime. If anyone wants these weird manual float switches let me know. I have two of them and I'll send them to you if you pay for shipping. See photo below.

Top off barrel is about half way emptied and I filled it on Oct 30 so its looking like maybe a barrel is roughly 1 month of water. I have considered running multiple barrels so I can get through the whole summer without coming in. We'll see.






















































I'm FREE! PM me if you want. You pay shipping 





Hundreds of daphnia and not one in focus!!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

So the endlers are in the mail! I paid for overnight mail and they were supposed to be delivered by 12 but I'll be at work then and there's a chance they won't get delivered. I left work after my last meeting and went directly to my local post office where I was able to connect with someone who agreed to find the package before they open and give it to me! So if they get delivered to my post office tomorrow morning they'll be in the tank that morning. Stay tuned...


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

rakali said:


> So the endlers are in the mail! I paid for overnight mail and they were supposed to be delivered by 12 but I'll be at work then and there's a chance they won't get delivered. I left work after my last meeting and went directly to my local post office where I was able to connect with someone who agreed to find the package before they open and give it to me! So if they get delivered to my post office tomorrow morning they'll be in the tank that morning. Stay tuned...


Good show! I've tried that with my local post office and always get stone walled. 

Can't wait to see how the fish turn out!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Ok it's been a crazy morning. The USPS tracking hadn't updated at all overnight which was bad. I texted the woman at the post office but she didn't have any more info. 

I went to the school and it seemed like the tank heater wasn't working which freaked me out. I rushed over to the only open petco and bought a new heater and went back to the school. Still no updates on the package. As I removed the old heater it appeared to be hot but I didn't trust it. I probably need to get a tank thermometer to dial in the tank temperature.

I finally dealt with the powerhead which once again wasn't working. I pulled off the extensions (patched the hole in the refugium mesh) and just shoved it down so that it will never suck air and stop working again. It is now about 2/3 of the way down in the water column. I can see some current near it but no sign of current at the surface. I know surface current is good for oxygenation but bad for CO2 dissipation. Anyone have any opinions on this? I could run some kind of hose up so there's a bit of movement at the surface if need be.

The shower caddie dropped again which is worrisome. I'm going to rig something to hold it up just in case that happens again. At this point I wish they had some kind of hooks vs suction cups. 

While I was typing this post the post office woman texted to say the fish had arrived! I'm already at work so I asked my wife to pick it up. Luckily the school is open late tonight because there are parent teacher conferences so I can put them in the tank after work tonight. I'll be sure to take photos and update later.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

12≠5

My wife opened the box and the nice fish seller Livefins generously sent 12 endlers instead of 5. I had a feeling this might happen and almost emailed him to say please send only 5 fish.

I think my new plan is to put all 12 in, watch the critter populations carefully to see if they can keep up with the demand, and then remove fish if things are getting sparse. 12 endlers in a 20 gallon (minus the refugium) should be ok if the live food populations can keep up. Right? What do you think?

Also there's plenty of places for them to hide etc.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

rakali said:


> 12≠5
> 
> My wife opened the box and the nice fish seller Livefins generously sent 12 endlers instead of 5. I had a feeling this might happen and almost emailed him to say please send only 5 fish.
> 
> ...


Sellers often do this--to cover any shipment losses, and just to provide a langiappe to make people feel like they're getting extra for their money. Doesn't hurt to see how all 12 fare. And if they do start eating themselves out of house & home you can always rehome some of them--I'm sure you'd have no problem finding takers.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Endlers are in the tank. I put them in last night. I used the plop and drop method that I first saw in a Rachel O'Leary video. They seem happy and they are gorgeous! The colors are spectacular already! They started going after the moina almost immediately. This morning the cloud of moina was definitely thinned. It'll be interesting to see when they discover the worms. If anyone can tell me roughly how old they are I'd appreciate it. I was hoping for juveniles. Not sure what I got but wow they look great and seem happy.

Now that the fish are in I feel like it's game on. I need to get more serious about live food options. There's organisms I haven't added due to circumstances or bad information and it's time to change that. I'm ordering everything I've come across. I just ordered ostracods (thought they were in a previous order but they weren't), asellus (tricky to get but Carolina has them), brown and black planaria (initially I was afraid to add but I have better info now), rotifers (Monostyla and Philodina),and daphnia pulex. My new plan is to get two more greenwater barrels going. I'm going to use one for an additional ATO barrel and the other will be a giant mixed culture barrel. Ideally all the greenwater barrels will be culture barrels but I want to make sure the pulex doesn't wipe out the greenwater and crash. That's why I'm going to have some redundancy for now. Also seller said endlers like greenwater so I am going to add more greenwater to the tank.

The tank temp read about 71 (I added a thermometer last night). I'd like it to be a bit warmer so I turned the heater up. I need to look up some heater tips because I haven't used a heater in a long time. At first I thought you just set it to the desired temp but I'm realizing that in this tank the heater needs to be higher to keep up with the heat loss in the winter. It's 32 degrees here today and I'm not 100% sure the heat is on in the building overnight. I'll find out. I still have the other heater so maybe I can put one on each side of the tank. If you have any heater tips please share them. Right now I have the heater set to 88. Just did some more reading and I'm definitely adding the old heater to the other side of the tank just as a backup and to keep the heat more even as I don't have much circulation.

Another one of the shower caddies slipped so finding a new way to keep them in place is now mandatory. I was thinking that maybe I could attach the suction cups to the outside of the tank and then use wire over the edge to hold the caddies. Then I don't have to buy anything else and that seems like a simple solve.

Not sure I'm happy with the flow from the powerhead. That might need to be addressed again. Might need to buy a bigger unit or let the one I have run unrestricted or less restricted. Right now the output is wide open but I did rubber band some filter media around it. Might still be too choked off now that the media has sucked up a bunch of crap.

Need to finish the ATO asap as I am traveling on the 22nd and won't be back for a week. Nothing terrible will happen if the water level goes down but it's something I'd like to have sorted.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Does anyone remember L.F.S. Cultures? I used to buy live foods from them. Seemed like a small family run business but they had so much to offer. Hard to find that kind of variety these days.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060218062947/http://www.lfscultures.com/cultures.html

In 2010 Aquaculture store offered "- Freshwater plankton - 500 ml culture - Ostracods, daphnia, rotifers, ceriodaphnia, copepods, tubifex worms, amphipods, a healthy helping of duckweed is added to make this a neat little aquarium plankton starter!....a nice varied selection." for $29.95 with shipping. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20100526054653/http://www.aquaculturestore.com:80/fwinverts.html

I just looked it up and he still offers it. Smaller quantity but almost the same stuff. Cost is lower but shipping is no longer included.

http://www.aquaculturestore.com/Plankton-mix.html


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

rakali said:


> Does anyone remember L.F.S. Cultures? I used to buy live foods from them. Seemed like a small family run business but they had so much to offer. Hard to find that kind of variety these days.
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218062947/http://www.lfscultures.com/cultures.html
> 
> ...



I only remember large jugs of Brine Shrimp.. 


anyways you are now on your way to a million guppies...


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> anyways you are now on your way to a million guppies...


Becuase this is a no feed tank that will be unattended during school breaks there's only male endlers.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

rakali said:


> Becuase this is a no feed tank that will be unattended during school breaks there's only male endlers.




They’re absolutely gorgeous! Have you noticed an excessive amount of bickering? I have two cobra endler males in my 75 and even with all that room they’re always sparring, it’s kind of annoying lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

varanidguy said:


> They’re absolutely gorgeous! Have you noticed an excessive amount of bickering? I have two cobra endler males in my 75 and even with all that room they’re always sparring, it’s kind of annoying lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haven't seen any bickering yet. I think because it was the first 24hrs they were still settling in. In fact they were kind of staying in one group like a school almost. It'll be interesting to see what they do today as they settle in more.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Fish seem to be doing well although I didn't have time to really observe and document them well today. It's funny they were in similar groups as yesterday. One large group of about 8 (yesterday it was 10) and a smaller group of the same 2 I saw together yesterday. That leaves 2 unaccounted for but I didn't have time to search the tank for them.

Temperature was at 71. Worries me a little. I added the old heater back. I'm wondering if the powerstrip isn't giving enough juice to the heater. But I did try it on a different extension cord and that didn't seem to make a difference. I added the old heater back this morning. Hopefully this will raise the temp. Anyone have any similar experiences?

Moina population is dwindling fast. Added some from the culture. The seller mentioned endlers like greenwater. I'm going to add more greenwater from the ATO when I have more time. New culture/ATO barrels arrive today. I'm going to work on the super culture barrel next week and try to get more greenwater going asap. Going to buy two more little T5 lights, one for each barrel. Hoping with more greenwater in the tank the daphnia/moina will be able to keep up a bit better. Also if I can get greenwater to sustain in the ATO barrels then maybe the ATO can serve as a timed dosing of food too.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

rakali said:


> Fish seem to be doing well although I didn't have time to really observe and document them well today. It's funny they were in similar groups as yesterday. One large group of about 8 (yesterday it was 10) and a smaller group of the same 2 I saw together yesterday. That leaves 2 unaccounted for but I didn't have time to search the tank for them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great project!! Been following along, and it’s looking very nice! Fish look awesome well colored up despite the shipping.

I’m surprised you have any critters left with all those endlers. I was betting on fat belly endlers and no moina.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

I was able to go to the classroom after work on Friday and I set up the ATO. The solenoid I bought was the wrong one but it still sort of worked the flow was just very slow. Apparently there are solenoids meant to work with gravity feed (low pressure) systems. I ordered one but for now I'm using the wrong one and it's working (slowly). I have two float switches set up. One that detects low water and turns on the solenoid. The other float switch (the safety) breaks the solenoid circuit when the water level is too high. My one fear was that some of the gunk at the bottom of the greenwater barrel that got stirred up when I topped it up would make it's way down the tube and jam the solenoid open enough to keep leaking. I was worried I would come to school Monday morning and see the tank overflowing with a giant puddle below. Luckily that didn't happen. ATO appears to be working just fine.

Set up the second greenwater barrel. This was my recipe for greenwater. I tried everything as I was not exactly sure what worked last time. I added the astaxanthin (just a tiny bit), some greenwater from the other barrel, snails, a small amount of spirulina and barley grass, a tiny bit of fish food, a small handful of crushed coral and shells, and moina from the culture jar.

Decided to feed the fish some flakes that I crushed up a bit. They were happy to have them. I want to keep them nice and healthy and fat and then when there are breaks they can fend for themselves with the livefood. I'm pretty sure that's what Tom did. I remember him mentioning that.

The endlers still seem to like to stay in a group. I saw a group of 7 at first and then the group was 9 when I left.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

ATO is still working so that's good. The wiring is still sloppy. I will put proper connectors on when I'm back from the break. 

Temperature is now around 76, right where I want it. New greenwater barrel is coming along. Hopefully I'll get the new lights for the barrel before I leave for the break next week. Water is good. A little less alkaline. 

I read yesterday that anubias likes lower light. It's been a long time since I read the requirements for it. I moved the frogbit from the back of the tank to cover the anubias. Now the left side of the tank is shaded while the right side is bright. I think that makes sense as the montecarlo is on the right along with whatever that stem plant is that was growing like crazy. Also I had always imagined the driftwood with the anubias to be a little shady grotto so this helps create that effect.

The fish are still staying in a group. I'm wondering if the shade of the frogbit will give them more confidence to split up. Are they normally a grouping fish? Not what I expected from a fish that was characterized as being very bold. Not a bad thing at all as the group of them is gorgeous. The group seems to be consistently 9 so I think we may have lost 3. Not certain but it's possible.

Looking forward to getting more greenwater in the tank with them as the seller suggested this is good for their health, disposition, and coloration.

Ostracods, planaria, pulex, and asellus arrive this week. My plan is to split the culture of pulex, ostrcods, and asellus and dump the rest in the refugium. Half the ostracods will go in the ATO barrel, the pulex will go in one of the smaller jars with the moina, the asellus will get their own jar with leaf litter and nori. I'm going to culture the asellus because right now no one seems to have them. If I can get them reproducing I might try to sell a few.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Not much time for the tank this morning. Setup the other light on the 2nd greenwater barrel. I like the way the plants look with the frogbit covering half the tank. ATO continues to function. Temp was up slightly to 78 but I didn't have time to adjust. 

I need to rig the other ATO barrels into the ATO otherwise when I get back from break we could be almost out of greenwater again. I now realize that having a single barrel for the ATO meant that when it was time to top up the greenwater was severely diluted. Adding two more barrels will mean that the greenwater levels can be kept more constant. My goal is to get the tank back to greenwater but I need more greenwater to do that. 

Also going to buy better food for the endlers now that I'm feeding as I increase the live food available and fatten them up a bit before the long breaks. The classroom had Tertramin flakes. I'm going to stop by the LFS and get them something more substantial.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Lots to do today before I'm away for a week. All the cultures arrived yesterday. Planaria weren't as creepy as I thought they'd be. Added them all to the tank. Some to the front and some to the refugium. Rotifers culture just looked cloudy couldn't really see them but I trust they were in there. Split the culture up between the Super Culture barrel, the moina culture jars and the refugium. Did the same with the pulex. I figure spreading the cultures around gives the best chance for maintaining them. The ostracods culture was daphnia so I'm going to have it replaced. Also added that to all the places mentioned. The asellus was also disappointing. The jar was clearly leaking and the culture had only a handful of organisms. Customer service is very good at that company so I'm sure they'll replace it. I took the organisms I had and set up another jar with a bit of greenwater, an oak leaf from the tank, some snails, a bit of nori, a sprinkle of spirulina and barley grass powder, and a tiny bit of crushed up fish food. Hopefully they'll survive and thrive. Eager to see where they are at when I get back.

I set up the other (and final) greenwater container. I didn't have time to connect them all into the ATO feed but that should be ok for now. I realize the trick to having only one barrel is to keep it topped up with fresh water so that the greenwater can persist instead of getting watered down when the barrel is almost empty. For now all the barrels are pretty watered down but there's some greenwater in all of them so hopefully by the time I get back they'll be nice and green again. When I'm back I'll connect them all into the ATO and then it won't be an issue. Also didn't connect the new gravity feed rated solenoid. The other one is working fine for now I don't want to risk an unknown while I'm away.

Bought decent guppy food from the LFS and the super nice guy (owner) in the shop (Pacific Aquarium on Delancey) stressed just how little you need to feed them with. Ironically in this tank there is really no danger of overfeeding. The shrimp all came out to devour any food the fish missed. One of the students accidentally dumped out some of the spirulina/barley powder. I added that to the tank too and the shrimp were having a field day picking it off the surface. 

I think if anyone wants to set up culture jars my biggest tip would be to add snails no matter what the culture. Same thing goes for setting up a greenwater culture. First thing I add is snails. Snail poop is fertilizer and I bet it helps support micro-organisms. Give the snails something to eat like nori, crushed up fish food, etc. The rest will handle itself. Years ago I set up a pico square glass tank and it got cloudy pretty quickly. I added a snail and the cloudiness was gone in a short while. Snails do a lot more than we know (than I know at least). Yay snails!































































Spirulina and barley grass powder floating on the surface.









Asellus culture. Fingers crossed!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Last day with the tank before I'm away for the week. ATO is working great. I fed the fish and only saw 7. I'm worried I'm losing fish but the tank is so densely planted that at this point I'm not sure. Also the water values haven't budged so I'm guessing nothing died. 

One of the greenwater barrels bloomed overnight and not the one that had been the oldest. It was the barrel I setup on Wednesday. I need to be more scientific about making greenwater in the future. Right now I'm kind of kitchen sinking it and hoping for the best. I distributed the greenwater form that barrel to the other two hoping that by the time I get back they'll all be nice and green and then I can start replacing the tank water with greenwater. 

It's funny so many things I'm doing with this tank seem like the opposite of what everyone else is doing. I want greenwater in the tank when most people see it as a major problem. I want algae in the tank. I just added planaria which most people dread finding. I want snails to be everywhere. I also want rotting plant matter. It seems like sometimes we work really hard to make our tanks less natural and I'm as guilty as the rest when it comes to past tanks.

Speaking of planaria I'm seeing them on the glass. They move much faster than I'd imagined. I'm hoping they'll reproduce and the endlers will figure out they can eat them. I've yet to see an endler eat a black worm which is a bit disappointing. I guess when they get hungry enough they'll start foraging.

The daphnia/moina jars are doing fine. At this point all the barrels of greenwater have some pulex in them too as well as other stuff. Hoping when I get back the barrels will be full of daphnia and I can keep adding them to the tank. If the tank has consistent greenwater I'm hoping they can reproduce faster than they are eaten.



























Wednesday









This morning. Barrel on the right bloomed overnight!









After I mixed the greenwater from the one barrel with the other two.









Asellus culture. I couldn't find one in there. Hopefully they are ok.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Ok back from vacation. Tank looks good. There seem to be 7 fish in the tank but others could be out of sight. Temp is right on. DIY ATO is still functional. Numbers are good. Greenwater in ATO bottles is less green than it was on Monday. Not sure why. I plan to link all the bottles into the ATO feed but that's a project for another day.

Frogbit has gone crazy. Adds some nice shadow over the nana and creates a safe zone for critters too. Took some out today and gave to a woman who works in the school office. Not sure what the strategy will be for the longer breaks. Maybe I'll put up a blocker and leave just a few plants. Also if anyone wants frogbit with any number of possible hitchhikers let me know. If you pay for shipping I'll send it out in a bubble envelope (I have a stack of them). Also added a few daphnia/moina from each jar to the farside of the tank behind the frogbit roots. The fish don't seem to spend much time there but I did see two fish over there after I added them. Topped up the culture jars with greenwater (about 40%) so I guess that counts as a water change.

Isopod and ostracods replacements arrived. I want to try to breed the ispods as they are hard to come by. Going to split the culture between the refugium and a culture jar. I'll probably add some of the ostracods to one of the culture jars too. Last isopod jar I setup got stinky pretty quick. I might try some gravel, some leaves from the tank, and tiny amounts of fishfood. I took the filter material off the powerhead (it was too restricted) and cut it into pieces and added it to each of the culture jars. Sort of passive filtration hopefully. Powerhead is now facing sideways and running through the refugium with a small amount of current being generated in the front of the tank. Hopefully the current doesn't bother any of the critters. Also hopefully the powerhead doesn't chew too many of them up.

Refugium seems pretty full of scuds and worms. Noticing a drop off in the number of RCS. Can't be certain because there's so much leaf litter back there but I'd say there's been a drop off. Not sure what the cause may be. RCS that are visible in the front of the tank seem fine and healthy.



























ATO Bottles Today









ATO Bottles on Monday


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

The Evening Edition:

So I stopped by the school to put the isopods in a culture jar and the ostracods in the tank. I noticed something moving in the refugium and thought maybe it was an RCS but when I looked it was one of the endlers! I have no idea how they got back there. Luckily I caught them pretty easily and put them back where they belonged.

Setup the little isopods jar. This time I kept it really simple; oak leaves from the tank, dried oak and indian almond leaves, tank water, and some frogbit. They seemed happy and this culture had more specimens than the last. I'm tempted to buy another culture just to put in the refugium but what I should do is wait until they reproduce. Hopefully they will. If I get impatient I'll try to suck a few out with the turkey baster.

I was going to use ATO greenwater for the jar but when I tested it with a test strip it seemed super alkaline. Does anyone know what's causing that? It won't really matter for the tank and actually is a good thing as I needed a bit more alkalinity.

I put a piece of duckweed in all the culture jars just to get some out of the tank. Hoping it will act as a natural filter and make the jars more stable.

I saw the principal today and he said some 8th graders are going to come to the school to teach classes to the kids on ecosystems. Apparently he sent a photo and a description of the tank to the teacher running the program and they were pretty interested. He asked if I'd talk to the 8th graders about the tank and I said happily.

Saw a daphnia magna in the ATO and it was like seeing a shark swim by at the aquarium. Look at the size of that thing!! 

Shot a video of one of the culture jars because they looked so cool backlit in the dark room.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Removed 3 fish from the refugium this morning and 1 last Friday. Anyone attempting to build a DIY refugium as I have done would be wise to use ample amounts of mesh that penetrate well into the substrate and well above the waterline. Also if you use suction cups to attach it make sure they don't come loose.

The principal gave me a 10 gallon tank after I mentioned the frogbit needing to be removed. Looks like we are setting up another tank in the classroom. I think I'll have the kids set this one up Walstad style. I'm going to follow the steps in the Foo Flowerhorn video.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Pulled a bunch of frogbit out (photos taken before) and gave it to the principal of a collocated school that keeps turtles across the hall. Because I've been swapping the frogbit with the ones in the culture jars the roots are getting coiled up which is leaving more space for the fish to explore below. 

Saw baby RCS for the first time confirming that the RCS are breeding in the tank. Photo below.

Added some daphnia/moina from the culture jars and from the ATO barrels to the tank. 

One of the ATO barrels is really exploding with life. Seemed super alkaline when I last checked. Could this be from ammonia? I don't have an ammonia test. Only source I can think of is the snail poop which if that's correct is great because that's what I need to keep the greenwater going.

Seeing seed shrimp in the tank and in the ATO barrels which is good. I added them not long ago and I'm glad to see they are doing well.

Still need to connect all the ATO barrels up to the ATO feed. That's the last big job. I'll do that before the holiday break.

Teachers are excited about turning the new 10 gallon tank into a Walstad style tank that the kids will set up. I sent them the Foo the Flowerhorn tank set up video and they were excited.

Found this newt and salamander site that has a great section for live foods. Best conversations I've seen about Asellus anywhere.

https://www.caudata.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14&order=desc




































Baby RCS born in the tank.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

*Tank is done!*

Today I did the last bit of work on the ATO so now the tank is finally finished! It's a good feeling to think how far the tank has come. What was once an empty tank and an idea is now a thriving little diverse ecosystem. I'm looking forward to stepping back and letting some time pass to see how well this little experiment goes.

Maintenance from this point forward will be topping off the ATO barrel (since they are all connected you only need to add water to one and then they self level), and removing frogbit. I also have been feeding the fish twice a day (me in the morning and the teacher before he leaves). I want nice fat healthy fish so that when there are breaks they have a bit of buffer when they are just foraging in the tank. 

The ATO barrels are 15 gallons so that should be over two months worth of evaporation top off easily. I've also considered making a little tent over the tank during the summer to trap some humidity and slow evaporation. My dream is to put a rainwater catch outside the building that would top off the ATO barrels but that's probably more of a project than I'm ready for.

The ATO barrel on the right absolutely exploded with life of all kinds (see videos below) (Daphnia Magna, Daphnia Pulex, Moina, Copepods, Ostracods, Gammarus) so I distributed the water in that barrel to the tank and the other barrels so now there's abundant life everywhere (lots of daphnia magna/pulex, moina, ostracods, in the tank along with greenwater once again). I just bought a pump and a timer to run from the tank to the ATO barrel which will cycle water and organisms from the ATO into the tank once a day. I'm thinking of decommissioning the culture jars at this point. It's unlikely all the barrels will crash at once.

Found a big Pyrex bottle on the street that was too good to pass up. Appears to be about 8 gallons. Might make it into a tank someday. See photo below and please share opinions. Should I do it? After this experiment it would be fun to make a semi sealed tank. The bottle even has a cap!



























ATO barrels finally joined together









Giant pyrex bottle I found on the street. I think it's about 8 gallons.


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## aquapadawan (Dec 5, 2019)

interestingly, Manhattan schist as can be found at central park lowers PH of water. I have tested it myself various times. Still, I use it in one of my tanks. I actually collected it from Umpire rock when it was snowing so no one would bother me. I am not breeding blue mystery snails, so if I have a surplus I'd love to donate some to your class
Daniel


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

OMG that giant jar! I love using non tanks as aquariums (bubble bowls, vases, giant jars), wish I could get a find like that and for free!!. That one is going to take some long tongs/tweezers to move plants around in.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Last visit to the tank before the break. Everything looks good. I won't be able to set up the pump to cycle the ATO before I leave but that's ok. Tank will be fine for a few weeks without it. I cycled about 1/4 of the tank with the ATO manually. Really upped the greenwater.

I used the net I have to scoop a bunch of critters from the barrel on the right and added them to the tank before I left. I also cycled about 1/4 of the tank with the ATO manually.

The suction cup caddies keep falling. I finally secured one to a suction cup on the outside with wire. Not enough time to do the other too.

My wife was not thrilled to hear about the possibility of a giant bottle tank. To be continued...


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Back from the break and tank looks great. ATO barrels are full of life like never before. I now realize that the ATO barrels are like a whole new refugium. The refugium in the back of the tank full of leaves keeps the snails, scuds, and worms happy. The greenwater barrels have moina, daphnia, and cyclops. Also the grenwater barrels have developed a nice coating of algae which may be more sustainable in the long run as a food source.

The daphnia (magna probably) have depleted the greenwater greatly. If I could start over I'd only add moina to the barrels. They are more appropriate for the Endlers mouth size and they probably wouldn't knock out the greenwater. I'm hoping by cycling the barrels daily with a pump I'll control the populations in the barrel a bit and give the greenwater a chance to come back. I ordered some more hose to setup the auto cycle so that should be done this week. It's also interesting that if I cycle the tank and barrels regularly it's like the tanks total volume of water goes from 20gal to 35gal in a sense. Should make things more stable in the long run. Although stability has, up to this point, never been and issue. I'm also pretty happy I came up with the idea of running lights 24/7 on the barrels to keep a steady supply of greenwater and daphnia etc. available to the tank. Ultimately that may be the constant source of food the tank will need over the summer.

The RCS are breeding happily. There's a few babies in the tanks and more berried females. I'm hoping the RCS population takes off a bit more and i think now is finally the time.

The Endler population seems to have stabilized at 6. I had a passing thought to put a female in there and let them breed but ultimately I feel like that would add another level of complexity to the tank as Endler babies would need to be removed and given away or sold regularly and I don't have time for that.

The culture jars have outlived there usefulness. If you want one of my jars it's yours. All you need to do is pay for shipping. They'll have moina and scuds and whatever else is happily hanging on in there. I'll bag them up and ship them. They'll come with a little gravel too. Email me if you want one. [email protected]

The tank is absolutely teeming with scuds at this point. Scuds are the most reliable food source if you want live food in your tank in my experience. Give them leaf litter and they will multiply. They are also super hard to kill. My isopod culture died quickly but that same jar still has living scuds in it even after the water fowled.

I'm pretty proud of how far the little tank has come. I look forward to seeing how things progress. I'm already thinking of handing over the care of the tank to the teacher and maybe a team of older students.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Today I setup the pump to auto-circulate the contents of the ATO barrels and wow I feel like the tank really has a shot at self sufficiency now. Let me explain how it works. There's a small submersible pump in the tank that pumps water out and up to the 3 ATO barrels full of greenwater and various critters (daphnia, moina, scuds, cyclops, seed shrimp etc.). As the water gets pumped out of the tank the ATO sensor in the tank kicks on and draws water from the barrels along with critters. As I ran it for testing the tank was full of daphnia and the Endlers were happily hunting. By running the pump twice a day it should provide more than enough food for them and it will help avoid overpopulation and crashing in the barrels. It will also circulate the greenwater into the tank and fresh water into the barrels. Because the lights on the barrels are on 24/7 there's always greenwater and algae and therefore there should always be some daphnia etc. I'll try to get some video of the whole setup tomorrow.

One more thing I need to adjust is the flow to each barrel. Right now I'm using a cross shaped splitter and the water goes wherever pressure is least so I've got little binder clips pinching off tubes trying to balance the flow but it's not sustainable. I was thinking maybe some check valves would take back pressure out of the equation. I've never used them before. Has anyone had experience with them? Is that what I need or is there something else? Basically I have one piece of 3/8 silicone tubing that I need to run equally to 3 tubes and get equal flow. Ideas?


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Here's a little video on the ATO auto feeder system.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Yesterday: ATO freaked out and flooded the tank. Not sure why yet. I may need to get a proper ATO so there's no catastrophes over the summer. I had to net a fish out from the refugium. There may be another one in there or I may have lost a fish in the flood. Not certain yet. And of course all this happened when I thought I had this tank in a good place.

Today: I discovered that the missing fish was somehow trapped in the net. I don't know how I missed it. Sad. Then while I was emptying water from the tank another fish got sucked up in the tube and died instantly when it reached the bucket. I'm not sure how but that's what happened. Pretty sad. Two dead fish in two days. I'm down to 4 fish so I'm going to buy some more. Tank is actually doing really well. I'm sure it can safely support more fish.

Thinking of switching from the barrels to a large bin. That will help simplify things. I was going to go with a bin initially. Just need to get some algae going in the bin before I swap in the critters.

Sending out the contents of the culture jars to Desert Pupfish today. I added a bunch of critters from the barrels too as the jars were a bit neglected and didn't have the larger daphnids.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Haven't updated in awhile so here goes. 

The ATO settled down. I think one of the soap dish planters contacted the float switch.

I ordered fish and the tank looks great. I think there's 13 now. Feels like a good stocking level visually and the new Endlers are gorgeous.

Been adding my mix of spirulina and barley grass powder to the tank and all the organisms seem to love it. The fish will skim the top gulping mouthfuls of it. The shrimp all come out for it. Some swim upside down at the surface in a little frenzy. Scuds love it, planaria come out for it. I initially did it for the shrimp but now I realize it benefits everyone. 

The shrimp continue to breed unfettered. There seems to always be a baby shrimp around now. I read someone else mention that scuds will outcompete baby shrimp but I'd say in my experience it doesn't seem to be an issue. There's enough to feed everyone, in this tank at least.

The timer I bought for the autofeeder worked in increments of 15 minutes which was way more than it needed to be on. It eventually wiped out the greenwater and most of the daphnia population subsequently. I bought a new digital timer that I can set to any increment down to the minute. I turned the autofeeder off to build back the population. I also added my greenwater mix of astaxanthin, spirulina, and barley grass powders. The greenwater came back in two of the barrels in a matter of days. Also the moina population rebounded quickly while the magna population has been slowly coming back. I'd almost rather not have the magna but that ship has sailed. By the end of the week I'll turn the autofeeder back on and change the time to 5 minutes or less. In the future I may need a slow release ammonia substance. One fish keeper suggested cow manure. Anyone tried anything like that?

Got the big bin and I'm going to switch out the ATO barrels for the bin eventually. Might keep one barrel going as insurance. The other two barrels will be up for grabs if anyone wants them. What you'd be getting is a big plastic barrel that has lots of algae on the inside and is ready to be your own indoor critter breeder. All you need is a $30 grow light (not included) and you're in business. I'll even include some critters to get your colony going. You pay shipping and the cost of the barrel(s). Best deal in town!

I'm working on a nano tank version of this tank (ATO, refugium, riparium, autofeeder all built in) that I'm hoping to develop and Kickstart. If you think that's a good idea and you might be interested in learning more DM me. I'm making a prototype now and I'll probably start a tank journal for that tank once it's up and running.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

I know it's been awhile but here's the latest on the tank. Tank is healthy. Fish are happy. Over the winter break the frogbit grew in so densely that it blocked all light below and choked out the anubias that was doing really well up until that point. Hoping it will make a full recovery. I removed the frogbit completely because it needs too much maintenance and instead just blocked the light on that side of the tank with a folded piece of paper. Now the anubias is getting less light intensity along with the other plants on that side of the tank. 

I had another problem with the ATO. I came into the classroom and the ATO barrels were almost empty. A snail shell had wedged itself in the solenoid and was creating a slow drip. That's the 2nd time this happened. The problem is that I need snails in the ATO to create waste to create ammonia to feed the plankton to feed the critters. Before the break I bought a big plastic storage container to replace the barrels. 

The single container is easier to manage in a few ways. Having one container instead of three means I no longer need to balance the pressure in the return hoses from the tank when the auto feed pump goes on. I put some mesh inside the inlet that leads to the tank so that snails (adults at least) can no longer get in the tube. I only had to do this in one place as opposed to three which was good. The lights are now inside the bin so I'm getting maximum light on the water for plankton growth. The barrels had also become overrun with duckweed. I now realize what a pain duckweed really is. Mine hitchhiked in on the frogbit I believe. 

I always worry I won't get greenwater to happen but inevitably it does. This time I added a bit of seaweed/fish fertilizer. Hoepfully that kicks it into gear.

Critters in the tank are doing well. The shrimp are multiplying, the scuds are everywhere, the planaria are happy, and so are the blackworms. Added more oak leaves to the refugium before the break and that seems to have made the shrimp scuds and everything else really happy. I also add any trimmings from the front of the tank to the refugium.

The strange thing is I've never once seen any of the fish eating any of the organisms. I've even seen them eat moina and then spit them back out. I guess over the summer when they get hungry enough they'll start hunting. I can only imagine a more aggressive fish like a pea puffer would be in heaven in a tank set up like this.

It's funny how different plants take over at different times. Right now it's the reddish plant in the middle (not sure what it is) that looked like it was surely going to die off when I first planted it. I also thought I lost the monte carlo but I cut back some leaves that were blocking it and it seems to have come back.

With the modification of the ATO container and the removal of the frogbit I'm feeling pretty good that the tank will maintain itself without much intervention. Only thing to do before the summer break will be to cut back the plants a bit and make sure there's no duckweed.

One of these days I'm going to get some better shots of the tank but for now here's the new container and a crappy shot of the tank.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Time for the spirulina/barley powder feeding. So many shrimp!!


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

*Greenwater Recipe*










Getting pretty good at making greenwater. This is a new batch I started on Friday. 

This is my recipe:


Bright lights on 24hrs/day- Light feeds the plankton
Snails- snail poop provides ammonia and other nutrients
Barley Powder/Spirulina Powder/Astaxanthin Powder (Prescribed for Life brand is the cheapest source I've found)- not sure which of these really makes the difference but I use them all. In the meantime they feed any critters until the greenwater blooms. I don't use much. Maybe 1/3 teaspoon or less depending upon how much water. I'll add it every day until the greenwater takes off.
Nori Sheets- I add nori to start the process off. It's acts as food for snails and other critters.

It's good to stir the batch to distribute nutrients. Some people add an airstone. I've never used one. In my setup I manually stir or the batch gets agitated when the auto feed pump turns on and circulates some water.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

Ok the school is now officially closed for at least a month if not more. The tank is now on its own. Before the school shut I was able to check the tank one last time. Of course there were fish in the refugium. I fished all but one out. They'll survive in there it's just a cramped space. I hope they stay up front. 

The ATO and self feeder are working. I fed the tank for the last time and added some astaxanthin to the ATO bin to try to increase the greenwater.

I'm a bit worried about duckweed so I fished out as much as I could but there's still some in there (the babies are so small) which means given enough time it will choke out the light. Hopefully I'll get access to the tank again before that happens.

Apologies for yet another bad photo.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

It Lives!

A few weeks ago the principal sent me a very rough video of the tank a custodian shot. I'm not allowed in the school so the tank has been fending for itself for almost 2 months now.

The good news is things seem to be ok. The ATO appears to be working and it's still got a nice green tint so hopefully it's got some life in it that's being pumped in the tank every day by the autofeeder.

You can see a few fish at the end of the video. Not sure how many survived and how many are gone. Happy to see the little tank surviving. 

I hope you all are safe and happy.


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