# Oxygen for the fish - plants by day and airstone by night?



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

I am new to planted tanks - I had 10~20 gallon tanks growing up as a child with tetras and mollies and always enjoyed it. I decided to go planted for this tank to do something new as well as it seems much more - fun. More work for more reward.

I have a "Current USA Satellite Plus PRO" on the way and will be here Wednesday to replace my current 4 x T5HO setup.

As I understand it the plants use CO2 and put off Oxygen during the day and then at night the process is basically reversed. If this is correct - I do not want an airstone running during the day as my pressurized CO2 will be running and then at night the CO2 will slow down/stop as the plants and fish will be putting CO2 into the tank and using Oxygen.

This would seem to indicate that I would want to run some sort of airstone at night - my tank is set up for as little surface disruption as possible including an internal filter.

I do have an Apex unit so I can easily program the airstone to turn on at night and off during the day so doing so isn't an inconvenience but I want to make sure I'm making the right decision.


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Many people do just that. Let the CO2 keep on running so it does not get out of adjustment, and run an air pump at night. 
Usually the air pump turns on just about lights out or a bit earlier. Then it is turned off about an hour before the lights come on. This allows the CO2 to build up so it is there for the plants when the lights come on.


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

That's exactly what I had in mind - thank you for helping me to confirm this.

Any advice on a good airstone that will do a good job of diffusing oxygen without making huge surface disruptions [i.e. smaller bubbles]?

I'm thinking something ceramic would work best but I'm not sure I hear it clogs way easy.

I am using Reverse Osmosis water and adding in the minerals/nutrients necessary to the water and bringing it up to temp before adding it.


----------



## Mizliz (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks for posting this! I hadn't even considered an airstone. I have a lowtech nano that will be heavily planted, does the same method apply? 

There are a few videos that I found on youtube that visually compare the amount of flow and size of bubbles, it helped me being able to see the results rather than just read reviews, might help you too


----------



## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Without co2, you don't usually need an airstone unless your tank is overstocked. Passive surface diffusion is generally adequate. Injecting co2 can change that.


----------



## Zippos (Nov 23, 2014)

MikeDVB said:


> That's exactly what I had in mind - thank you for helping me to confirm this.
> 
> Any advice on a good airstone that will do a good job of diffusing oxygen without making huge surface disruptions [i.e. smaller bubbles]?
> 
> I'm thinking something ceramic would work best but I'm not sure I hear it clogs way easy.


 Most any airstone will work depending up how big you want the curtain of bubbles. You can also add an inline valve to cut down on the amount of bubbling if you feel it's disturbing the surface too much.



MikeDVB said:


> I am using Reverse Osmosis water and adding in the minerals/nutrients necessary to the water and bringing it up to temp before adding it.


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

I have a couple of 'bubble wands' that put out horrendously big bubbles and I hate them.

I'm thinking an actual air 'stone' even if not ceramic should be an improvement.

I only plan on running the bubbler at night if CO2 is running to just make sure that the fish do not have any distress.

I'm aiming for tiny bubbles - I will be infusing the CO2 via a dedicated line and pump for the Reactor I've built. I'm trying a new design .


----------



## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

I never thought of it until now, but I wonder how it would work to use a Rex Grigg type reactor but inject air into it instead of Co2.


----------



## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Airstones are cheap, so just try some until you find the smaller bubbles you're looking for. They won't be anywhere near as tiny as the diffuser bubbles you get from co2, though. That requires a LOT more pressure through a ceramic disc, than the little aquarium air pumps are capable of putting out.


----------



## Red Cloud (Nov 11, 2014)

Airstone is really not necessary. Plants do use oxygen at night but far less than they put out during the day. Plant pearling when running co2 is basically complete oxygen saturation of the water from photosynthesis. This, along with your normal aerating from the filtration, should be more than adaquate. If your fish are starved for oxygen at night, then your tank is overstocked. 

Obsession is a matter of opinion


----------



## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

I run my co2 an hour and a half ish (drop checker turns yellow) prior to the lights coming on. It shuts off an hour before the lights do. My air stone kicks on about an hour after that and runs for 3 hours.


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

What I'm doing right now is using the Apex unit to keep the pH at 7.5 [I would like to do 6.8~7.0 but I need to transition from my tap water to my RO water for that and I'm still working on the buffering/minerals mix].

If it's above 7.5 I run the CO2 and if it's below 7.5 I run the airstone. This has kept the PH stable. Since I know my KH and have a drop checker I'm able to make sure I don't have too much CO2 in the water and have been observing the fish and they are doing fine overnight.

Realistically at this point the bubbler is being controlled by PH alone and is more of a 'safety net' than anything else.

Prior to injecting CO2 my PH was going down during the day and up overnight. Now that I'm controlling it with CO2/Bubbler/Apex it's staying a rock solid 7.5 24 hours a day. The biggest difference I have noticed has been that my fish are now actually eating and playful. For about a week they had been refusing to come to the surface to eat [would only eat what sank] and were basically just floating around. Now that I've got PH and Temperature solid they're chasing each other around and eating flakes from the surface .


----------



## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

MikeDVB said:


> I am new to planted tanks - I had 10~20 gallon tanks growing up as a child with tetras and mollies and always enjoyed it. I decided to go planted for this tank to do something new as well as it seems much more - fun. More work for more reward.
> 
> I have a "Current USA Satellite Plus PRO" on the way and will be here Wednesday to replace my current 4 x T5HO setup.
> 
> ...


 Red Cloud gives sound advice. Plant heavily from the start and do not over stock. Follow that simple rule always.


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

I'm very new to planting aquariums and I'm still learning all of it. I'm not sure if what I have quantifies as 'heavily planted' or not.


----------



## Tylermn93 (May 25, 2013)

Lately I've been raising my lily pipe to oxygenate my water at night. I believe the extra oxygen has helped make my beneficial bacteria thrive as my tank lately has been doing very well although mabye it's a coincidence. During the day I have my co2 come on an hour before lights on and a half an hours before lights off. Also have an eheim skimmer 350 come on for 3 20 min intervals throughout the day.


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

I don't have a skimmer - what is the purpose?


----------



## treyLcham (Sep 9, 2014)

MikeDVB said:


> I have a couple of 'bubble wands' that put out horrendously big bubbles and I hate them.
> 
> I'm thinking an actual air 'stone' even if not ceramic should be an improvement.
> 
> ...



If I'm right it doesn't matter the size of the bubbles coming out of the airdrome because the air stone is just meant to break the water surface to allow oxygen to diffuse into the water? I could be wrong but I believe that's all it's for. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## treyLcham (Sep 9, 2014)

MikeDVB said:


> I don't have a skimmer - what is the purpose?



Take any biofilm or any debris off the surface. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

treyLcham said:


> Take any biofilm or any debris off the surface.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting. I've never used one in all the years I had tanks as a child while growing up but will look into it .


----------



## treyLcham (Sep 9, 2014)

The one he is using is the one I am going to be getting, it is very nice looking and most of the people that I know use it say they love it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

MikeDVB said:


> Interesting. I've never used one in all the years I had tanks as a child while growing up but will look into it .


Many planted tanks form an oily biofilm on the top of the water. Some biofilm is harmless (and some actually seek it for feeding certain kinds of juvenile shrimp), but once it gets to be a lot, the oil layer actually interferes with gas exchange, and can starve the tank of oxygen.

Surface skimmers, of various sorts, suck it right up, along with dead leaves and other flotsam and jetsam. It can also be avoided by adding movemen to the water surface, such as with raised lily pipes, spray bars, or an HOB filter's waterfall.


----------



## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

MikeDVB said:


> I'm very new to planting aquariums and I'm still learning all of it. I'm not sure if what I have quantifies as 'heavily planted' or not.


 There are many photos around to see what a heavily planted tank looks like. It's not hard to figure out.


----------



## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

^^ Also, post a pic and ask.


----------



## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

kman said:


> Many planted tanks form an oily biofilm on the top, but once it gets to be a lot, the oil layer actually interferes with gas exchange, and can starve the tank of oxygen.


 How's that occur if plants are producing oxygen all day to the point sometimes of super saturating the water?


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

Steve001 said:


> There are many photos around to see what a heavily planted tank looks like. It's not hard to figure out.


You don't say? Wow... Thank you.



kman said:


> ^^ Also, post a pic and ask.


The tank is not as clean as I would like. That said prior to my last post I didn't even think about the distinction but I suppose when discussing planted tanks online it would be a metric that makes sense.



Steve001 said:


> How's that occur if plants are producing oxygen all day to the point sometimes of super saturating the water?


It does get used up overnight if I am not mistaken. Plants produce it during the day and take it in at night if my memory is correct. If you have fish they will use it at night as well.

I just run my bubbler at night to keep some surface disruption going on but I am thinking about tossing an AquaClear HOB on this and pulling out the Fluval U3 internal filter. Alternatively I could just raise up the Fluval and it will disturb the surface more.


----------



## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Steve001 said:


> How's that occur if plants are producing oxygen all day to the point sometimes of super saturating the water?


Plants don't ever super saturate the water with oxygen. They produce oxygen, but not enough to actually significantly saturate the water, let alone super saturate it.


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

Looking at the Eheim 350 Skimmer it seems you need to clean it every few days from the reviews I've read. I'll have to research them.

I'm open to suggestions as well .


----------



## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

MikeDVB said:


> Looking at the Eheim 350 Skimmer it seems you need to clean it every few days from the reviews I've read. I'll have to research them.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions as well .


Depends on how much you run it, and how dirty your tank is. Leaves will clog it faster than only sucking in biofilm. If it's mostly just biofilm, it will only need weekly cleaning, if that. You can tell when it's slowing down, it's very clear. If your tank has a lot of bits of floating vegetation, you may need to at least pluck out the bigger leaves on a daily, or every other day, basis. Generally this is only after a big trim, but it depends on the particulars of your tank.

I run mine for two hours per day, on a timer, which is all that's needed to keep the tank clean and the biofilm at bay. (for just the biofilm I could probably run it less)


----------



## MikeDVB (Feb 10, 2015)

Awesome - thank you. I've ordered one and will give it a try. I figure I'll run it 10 minutes after the feed timer turns off for a half hour every day.


----------



## Tylermn93 (May 25, 2013)

I love my skimmer it's not noticeable at all and when it is on it creates a small amount of flow, oxygenates the water and sucks up whatever is floating on the surface. I've had mine for a couple weeks and on water change day I just rinse the sponge out no clogging issues but then again mine isn't running all day. The sponge is very small so lots of leaves can clog it I'm sure but it's very easy to remove the sponge to clean.
From this point forward I'll probably always use one but if you have a lot of surface movement it isn't necessary. The way my lily pipes and powerhead is setup is for maximum water movement for so I know the co2 and nutrients are reaching everything since in the beginning I had flow issues. Once I got new lily pipes and the fact my koralia nano ph is halfway down from the surface I didn't have hardly any surface movement. This skimmer fixed that


----------

