# Is the fish waste is enough in my 40g heavily planted aquarium



## HardDisk (Feb 4, 2018)

Is the fish waste enough or do i need some aquatic fertiliser for my 40g aquarium setup? or do i need to vacuum the fish poop every now and then. How often is the water changes? I have 14w overhead filter, 6-14w led lights. Driftwood with christmas moss. i plant it randomly
Here are my submerged plants:
1.bacopa caroliniana
2.dark red ludwigia
3.ambulia
4.ludwigia brevipes
5.cryptocoryne wendtii green
6. java fern
7.hydrocotyle tripartita
8.dwarf baby tears
9.rotala rotundifolia
10. water bamboo fully submerged(success)
11. red Nymphaea Rubra lotus

Fishes:
3 yellow lab
1 reb zebra
1 golden mbuna
1 cynotilapia afra
1 albino socolofi
1 white peacock

7 rosie barb
13 tiger barb
2 janitor
1 denison barb
1 siamese algae eater
1 mollie
1 platy
2 swordtail
2 gold algae eater


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

There are several arguments to this one.

Some say let mulm/poo accumulate and just change water.
Some vacuum and change water.
Some never change nothing but top off tank.

All my tanks get regular vacuuming which forces small water changes.
I do not allow debris accumulation even in tanks without phish.

Heavily planted? Can you post a pic?

All my tanks get fertilizer that I premix as liquids.
Regardless of lighting or CO2 injection, only the quantity of dosing gets changed relative to plant mass.

For me, healthy plants, small phish load, and minimal feeding keep algae in check.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Are your plants healthy and generally free of algae? If yes, you probably don't need to add more ferts, although this may change over time as some are depleted.

Are your nitrates low and reset by your current water change schedule, your other parameters stable and your fish healthy looking? If yes, your current water changes are probably adequate. If not increase them.

Does the mulm offend you? If yes, vacuum/syphon during your water changes.


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## HardDisk (Feb 4, 2018)

here are my planted tank, sad to say my 3 ghost shrimp is missing since 1st week of february. I change water every day about 3-4.5L. Just recently, some brown spots appeared in the front and rear side of the aquarium.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I would be surprised to see shrimp able to live with the African cichlids. Many of the mbuna do live by combing small creatures from the algae in the lake. I find my fish will not leave things like snails alone.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

You can try not adding ferts to the water column, but I'm betting that in time you'll find that modest fertilization is beneficial. I question your water change strategy and feel you'd be better of with a greater volume weekly.


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## HardDisk (Feb 4, 2018)

so in 7weeks, the growth of my plants are very slow. Its almost slow to nothing. In that time, this fishes are dead: 2gouramis(ich,fin rot) 2mollies(sudden death) 3platys(balloned tummy) 1rosy barb(attacked). 
I have now 38fishes in total. 16fishes are added since. I have put 10giant ramshorn, in 1 week, i just saw 1. Is my tank overstock? I have only small fishes.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

That's a lot of fish for a 40g. And they will just get bigger, the ones that survive.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

What are your source water and tank nitrates? 
With only approximately 1g a day water change and that many fish, I'd expect the pollution to be very high. The pollution dilution with that low volume is very poor.
You might try a weekly 50% water change and modest fertilization. I'd also suggest fast growing floating plants to keep pollution in check. Water sprite, frogbit, hornwort, anacharis come to mind.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Test your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels..
suspect Nitrates are high.


you need to balance out Light/Ferts/CO2 for continued growth.
Any one of the 3 can become limiting


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

HardDisk said:


> View attachment 849649
> 
> 
> so in 7weeks, the growth of my plants are very slow. Its almost slow to nothing. In that time, this fishes are dead: 2gouramis(ich,fin rot) 2mollies(sudden death) 3platys(balloned tummy) 1rosy barb(attacked).
> I have now 38fishes in total. 16fishes are added since. I have put 10giant ramshorn, in 1 week, i just saw 1. Is my tank overstock? I have only small fishes.


I wouldn't worry about the plants right now. Ferts seem to be the least of your issues.

Having that many fish deaths is a huge cause for concern. That is far, far from normal. Leads me to believe Nitrate levels and build up of organics is through the roof. I would even have questions about the tank being cycled. Have you taken an ammonia reading??

First thing I would do is multiple water changes over a few days. You need to get that water clean. Then I would get on a regular water change schedule. 

Your tank is overstocked. I would seriously considering removing some fish from the tank, at least until you gain more experience as how to care for them. And if you keep that stock, I would be doing more like 70% weekly water changes. 

I myself keep a heavily stocked tank, but that requires a real commitment to tank maintenance. Not just water changes, but regular gravel vacs, regular filter cleanings, removal of any dead/dying plant matter, creating good surface agitation, etc. etc. In general, the more stock the more you need uber clean conditions.

And that includes heavy filtration. I don't know what a 14w overhead filter is? Assuming it's an HOB of some type. If you are going to keep a heavily stocked tank, you will benefit from over filtering. No such thing as too much. 

Once you get that handled and fish aren't dying, you will get another benefit.....you are going to find it much easier to grow plants. Like fish, plants also like a clean environment, and algae hates it.

Dosing ferts will depend on your lighting and how high tech you want to go. Again, I have no idea what PAR 6 14w LED lights produce. If that's lower light, you might need to dose very moderately. If it's higher light, you would greatly benefit from CO2 (just assuming no CO2 now) and may need to dose more.

In general, it helps to set some goals for tank. Low light low tech stick with low light plants. Those plants grow more slowly, and have less needs. But in that environment, many stems will not flourish. 

Higher light higher tech will broaden the horizon of plant selection, but takes a commitment to setting up lighting, CO2, and ferts much more precisely.

And in general, I like the layout of the tank. It's a nice start. I would decide what you want the tank to be, and how involved you want to get, then base all of your decisions on that.

Good luck, will be interesting to see where it goes from here.


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## HardDisk (Feb 4, 2018)

Tap water which i did all the time. I test last night, these are the results: nitrates=38, nitrite=0, ammonia=0, pH=7.7. For the last one month, i did 15% weekly water changes. I had apply 1capful of seachem flourish & iron once a week. I have floating plants before which are duckweed, dwarf pistia stratiotes and amazon frogbit which was in the picture in my february post but all died out because of constant movement of my water, surface agitation because of filter. My tank i think was cycled properly, this is used tank that i purchase to other aquarist. I retain the water in it.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

HardDisk said:


> Tap water which i did all the time. I test last night, these are the results: nitrates=38, nitrite=0, ammonia=0, pH=7.7. For the last one month, i did 15% weekly water changes. I had apply 1capful of seachem flourish & iron once a week. I have floating plants before which are duckweed, dwarf pistia stratiotes and amazon frogbit which was in the picture in my february post but all died out because of constant movement of my water, surface agitation because of filter. My tank i think was cycled properly, this is used tank that i purchase to other aquarist. I retain the water in it.


You tested your tap [source] water and got 38ppm nitrates?!?! If so, your tank nitrates are probably through the roof.


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## Boston Maine Mike (Mar 13, 2018)

I would direct you to Dennis Wong's site: https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/

He is scientific Aquascaper whom I have learned much from. His site breaks down every topic in easy to understand language. 

Also he has several youtube videos worth studying as well.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

The overstocking is the first thing that needs to be addressed, IMO. There are too many fish in too small of a space. Fish get stressed which leads to poor health, poor behavior and shorter less "happy" lives. I use the word happy because I can't thing of anything else at the moment, lol. Poor fish health and poor lives then makes me unhappy too and the aquarium is no longer a source of enjoyment.

As far as ferts, fish waste and that sort of thing you'll get all kinds of opinions. My basic mode of operation with my tanks is organics out. An aquarium is a small enclosed system with a very limited amount of water and not as subject to the same forces that exist in nature. Anyone who thinks you can set up a self sustaining aquarium that requires no intervention is kidding themselves. Removal of waste, both plant and fish is necessary through regular water changes, vacuuming, suspension of particles in the water column so the filter can pick it up and frequent regular filter cleaning are all necessary. 

Just my 2 cents. Once again, you'll get all kinds of opinions.


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## HardDisk (Feb 4, 2018)

So after my last post until 2nd week of May 15 fishes are dead in addition to previously died. Ever since, there are no more dead. Their population are 24 including 8 african cichlids. I added hornwort and vallisneria italia plants. Last week, i added 7-2" Cobalt Blue cichlids, now they are 31 in total. Then last June 11, i stripped from the mouth of yellow lab cichlid a total of 33 fry and put it in my 5gal fry tank. So my question, can i add all of this cichlids to my 40g and they will definitely overstocked. So in total, there are 48-african cichlids and 16-community fishes. Is this setup possible?


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

Holy moly. That tank sounds heavily overstocked... Have you kept cichlids or fish in general before? The amount of stocking you hope to do sound astronomical in such a small tank.

Edit: For example, I would probably keep only the 7 blue cichlids in a tank that size or just the 8 other cichilds. Those aren't dwarf cichlids right? So they'll grow fairly large. Obviously the 'inch per gallon' rule is bogus but it's not a bad starting point for a newer aquarist to follow.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

I would rehome the community fishes, and convert this to an African tank. As the africans grow, they will get more agressive and start picking each other off (after they kill the community fish). You need to research the africans to see which will survive together and rehome the rest. Also, they benefit from caves/hardscape and tend to eat plants.

African cichlids like high pH/hard water, plants like lower pH/soft water (in general).


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## Jorge_Burrito (Nov 10, 2010)

I am going to be a little more blunt.

Please, please, please stop being an irresponsible aquarium owner. Please, please stop adding fish and start looking at where to rehome some of your existing fish. Decide if you want to do a community tank or a cichlid tank and then research each, you won't be successful doing both. If it is a cichlid tank, you will be limited to maybe 10 fish or less and make sure you are choosing ones that stay small (4-5 inches or less when they are fully grown). A cichlid tank would greatly benefit from some rock work. You can have a bit more fish in a community tank assuming you choose smaller fish. A planted tank is much more likely to be successful with community fish.

Please take actions to educate yourself so you stop killing fish! The internet is an amazing resource that has all the information you need to be successful, stop being willfully ignorant.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> so in 7weeks, the growth of my plants are very slow. Its almost slow to nothing. In that time, this fishes are dead: 2gouramis(ich,fin rot) 2mollies(sudden death) 3platys(balloned tummy) 1rosy barb(attacked).





> I have floating plants before which are duckweed, dwarf pistia stratiotes and amazon frogbit which was in the picture in my february post but all died out because of constant movement of my water,


Plant growth has slowed or stopped due to a nutrient deficiency the high nitrate levels supports that. Surface agitation of the water will not kill duckweed or frog bit. It slows their growth some but doesn't stop it. Only a nutrient deficiency will kill floating plants. Basically you water is lacking something your plants need so they will not grow and as a result other nutrients are building up in the water such as nitrate and probably phosphate. Flourish comprehensive is a popular fertilizer but it depends heavily on some nutrients being available in the water to make up for then nutrients it doesn't have. Flourish comprehensive is deficient in in nitrogen, calcium, copper, zinc.

It is also important to note that fish need the same nutrients pants need plus a few others. If your nutrient levels are out of balance the fish will suffer as much as the plants. I am not surprised that you have had a lot of fish deaths. If you don't make any changes more will die and more pallets will probably die. You need to do several large (50%) water changes within a week to get the nutrients back in balance. I would also switch to a better fertilizer such as Thrive available at Nilocg.com. And then do a regular 50% water change once a week. I would also get a Gh and KH test kit. to monitor your GH. If your GH is low. you could be deficient in calcium or magnesium. If so a GH booster may be necessary.


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## HardDisk (Feb 4, 2018)

so i give all of my 9 adult african cichlids to my wife office aquarium. Its a 200g cichlid aquarium with 18-african cichlids, 2 parrot fish and 1 janitor fish. After 5 days, all of my 9 cichlids are dead, beated badly by the existing inhabitants. Its my biggest mistake and a lesson to learn. I observe when you add a juvenile cichlid in an existing cichlid aquarium, they dont bully the juveniles at all and they dont seem to care at all. But when you add an Adult cichlid, they will harass it and eventually kill it.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

If your Dennison barb is one of the survivors they like to be in a group and a 40g is too small of a tank for them.


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