# My first planted tank



## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Welcome to the aquarium side 😁👍 just from personal experience- carpeting plants are difficult to impossible in low tech settings. There are plants that can be used on place of true carpeting plants that give a similar look but don't fill in the same and take longer than high tech. Mosses can be trained to look like carpets and they've done well for me giving the looks of ground cover in low tech/ no tech settings. Just my 2 cents.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

Plinkploop said:


> Welcome to the aquarium side 😁👍 just from personal experience- carpeting plants are difficult to impossible in low tech settings. There are plants that can be used on place of true carpeting plants that give a similar look but don't fill in the same and take longer than high tech. Mosses can be trained to look like carpets and they've done well for me giving the looks of ground cover in low tech/ no tech settings. Just my 2 cents.


Thanks for the feedback. I have heard the same thing about carpeting plants in low tech, but I've heard Eleocharis (parvula or mini) can grow well (if slowly), so thinking about trying that.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

jmg16 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I have heard the same thing about carpeting plants in low tech, but I've heard Eleocharis (parvula or mini) can grow well (if slowly), so thinking about trying that.


I'm contemplating trying e pusilla in low tech as when I neglected my co2 in my cube start up it still grew and carpeted without co2 and under moderate lighting. I've had no luck with mini or parvula in low tech personally.


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## AJTheFishKid (Jun 11, 2021)

Really nice scape you have done btw. I would use Java fern and anubias on the wood and crypt wendetti in the foreground. Good luck on your first aquarium!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Welcome! You asked for input on your aquascape so here goes. The tiny branches don't really fit the tank with the larger pieces in there. On top of that, they're going to be a PITA to work around, so I'd suggest taking them out. Also, be prepared for the small rocks you've spread out to get fully covered by carpeting plants. It looks good now, but they're going to get in the way, get covered up, and get moved around when thinning the carpet. You'll be better off removing them too.

The larger of the small stones will be excellent to attach epiphytes to so you can put them in places you want them, but can't tie down. 

Other than that, I'm looking forward to seeing this tank over time and watching your journey in planted aquaria.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

AJTheFishKid said:


> Really nice scape you have done btw. I would use Java fern and anubias on the wood and crypt wendetti in the foreground. Good luck on your first aquarium!


Thanks! Definitely planning on some anubias and crypts!


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

Phil Edwards said:


> Welcome! You asked for input on your aquascape so here goes. The tiny branches don't really fit the tank with the larger pieces in there. On top of that, they're going to be a PITA to work around, so I'd suggest taking them out. Also, be prepared for the small rocks you've spread out to get fully covered by carpeting plants. It looks good now, but they're going to get in the way, get covered up, and get moved around when thinning the carpet. You'll be better off removing them too.
> 
> The larger of the small stones will be excellent to attach epiphytes to so you can put them in places you want them, but can't tie down.
> 
> Other than that, I'm looking forward to seeing this tank over time and watching your journey in planted aquaria.


I didn't think about how difficult it might be to plant around the twigs...good call. They're already glued in place but I suppose I may end up having to remove then if planting is too impossible. As far as the gravel, I see what you're saying but honestly I'm ok with it being moved around by plants. It's randomly scattered as it is and I think it adds some good texture and scale. I guess lesson #1 is think about planting _before _You scape, not after.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Or at least think about it before you glue things down.


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

Noice hardscape..wish I was good at scaping too


I would go lightly on pebbles..they are PITA to rearrange and stuff. 
If you choose carpeting plants for foreground then really get rid of them and just have some near larger stones.


Also most rocks will leech calcium, magnesium and carbonates into water column.
Ca and Mg don't matter that much, but too much carbonates will have significant effects....mostly negatively on plants.
Usually it's not much problem unless you really go crazy on rocks or keep sensitive plants.


This is what I recommend.
For background Myriophyllum species and Bacopa caroliniana are my usual choice for low-tech. 
Hemianthus micranthemoides also does well at low tech.

For midground small Cryptocoryne species are good option. 
Pogostemon helferi and Staurogyne repens can work. 
Few stems at transition points between carpets and stems. Without these stem bushes tend to look like cliffs but you have hardscape so..not completely necessary.

For carpet try Hydrocotyle tripartita. This is more of a 'cushion' then carpet but it can be done low tech. 
It can grow all over the place so you might want it to cover some lower woods or rocks for more "natural" feel.

I strongly recommend Bucephalandras. Just get cheap ones. They do great under low tech as epiphytes and often gives unique texture. 
Also I find buces to be more resistant to algae then anubias in general.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

MoreliaViridis said:


> Noice hardscape..wish I was good at scaping too
> 
> 
> I would go lightly on pebbles..they are PITA to rearrange and stuff.
> ...


This is awesome, I am going to look at all of these. Thank you!


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

And the finished product! (Minus critters). Went with:

Eleocharis belem
Java fern - black forest
Anubias nana patite
Anubias barteri
Bucephelandra theia
Bacopa caroliniana
Ludwigia repens
Rotala h'ra

Added seachem purigen and holy cow what a difference it makes with water clarity. Will update here as everything acclimates.


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

Noice.

Looks like most of stems are emersed grown. Just wait about a week or two till they grow new submersed leaves. 
After that trim and throw away bottom emersed grown part and replant tops. They will never turn into submersed growth.

If you want denser bush you could cut stems in half and replant. Cut stems will grow 2 new submersed shoots. So you effectively triple the yield. I recommend this for rotala. They are extremely resistant to overcrowding and able to handle very dense bush. Pick 2~3 stems at once with tweezers and plant them at once to make dense bush.

Btw h'ra needs CO2 and nitrate limitation to show deep red. It might turn yellow or orange..but just don't expect much.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

MoreliaViridis said:


> Noice.
> 
> Looks like most of stems are emersed grown. Just wait about a week or two till they grow new submersed leaves.
> After that trim and throw away bottom emersed grown part and replant tops. They will never turn into submersed growth.
> ...


Good to know, thanks! So how can you tell the stems are emersed grown? I got them from Buce Plant and can't find anywhere on their site whether they grow their stems emersed or submersed. I will say, the rotala h'ra came to me in not so great condition, so I am hoping they make it. Sounds like if I chop them in half and let them regrow that might help. The ludwigia is in decent shape though. To be honest I am terrified to pull them out and replant because it took me forever to get them planted in the first place, ha! I guess I could use more practice with the technique...

And good to know about the h'ra...I knew it might not be great without CO2 which is why I only got one bunch to try out.


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

jmg16 said:


> Good to know, thanks! So how can you tell the stems are emersed grown? I got them from Buce Plant and can't find anywhere on their site whether they grow their stems emersed or submersed. I will say, the rotala h'ra came to me in not so great condition, so I am hoping they make it. Sounds like if I chop them in half and let them regrow that might help. The ludwigia is in decent shape though. To be honest I am terrified to pull them out and replant because it took me forever to get them planted in the first place, ha! I guess I could use more practice with the technique...
> 
> And good to know about the h'ra...I knew it might not be great without CO2 which is why I only got one bunch to try out.


Emersed leaves look different. They also kinda feel different as well. 
For example, emersed leaf of Rotala rotundifolia is round as its name suggest (Rotund-round + folia-leaf), while submersed leaf is oblong.

As for planting technique you can just plant in the dry soil. No floating so much easier.
You can plant deep as long as top portion is exposed. Use tweezers.
Once you have bit of practice it gets easier..


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## stlhokie (Aug 21, 2018)

Havent read the whole thread, but based on the first post, just a warning if you decide to go with corys as livestock. They will level out your substrate and eliminate the backslope faster than you can blink.

If you have a flat substrate layer like sand they are fine, but for any type of sloped scape like the one you have, they will flatten out the look and really detract from what you're going for.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

stlhokie said:


> Havent read the whole thread, but based on the first post, just a warning if you decide to go with corys as livestock. They will level out your substrate and eliminate the backslope faster than you can blink.
> 
> If you have a flat substrate layer like sand they are fine, but for any type of sloped scape like the one you have, they will flatten out the look and really detract from what you're going for.


Good to know. What fish would you recommend for waste/algae control?


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

MoreliaViridis said:


> Emersed leaves look different. They also kinda feel different as well.
> For example, emersed leaf of Rotala rotundifolia is round as its name suggest (Rotund-round + folia-leaf), while submersed leaf is oblong.
> 
> As for planting technique you can just plant in the dry soil. No floating so much easier.
> ...


Does the ludwigia (right side) and bacopa (left side) look emersed-grown to you as well? Or just the rotala?


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## stlhokie (Aug 21, 2018)

jmg16 said:


> Good to know. What fish would you recommend for waste/algae control?


The trifecta of algae waste control is Amano Shrimp, Otocinclus, and Clithon Corona Snails (aka horned nerites). If you have those three would can do a pretty decent job of combatting just about every type of algae and eliminate waste buildup at the bottom of your tank. Generally you should have 1 Amano/5 liters, 1 oto/15 liters, and 1 snail/5 liters. So fo you're 11.4 gallon aka 45 liter you'd be looking at 9ish amanos, 3 otos, and 9 snails. Honestly though with such a small tank, I'd probably avoid the Otos as they're a shoaling fish and need more of the same species, and I'd replace them with more amanos


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

stlhokie said:


> The trifecta of algae waste control is Amano Shrimp, Otocinclus, and Clithon Corona Snails (aka horned nerites). If you have those three would can do a pretty decent job of combatting just about every type of algae and eliminate waste buildup at the bottom of your tank. Generally you should have 1 Amano/5 liters, 1 oto/15 liters, and 1 snail/5 liters. So fo you're 11.4 gallon aka 45 liter you'd be looking at 9ish amanos, 3 otos, and 9 snails. Honestly though with such a small tank, I'd probably avoid the Otos as they're a shoaling fish and need more of the same species, and I'd replace them with more amanos


Great info, thanks. What about plecos? Do you think a few dwarf or other small species of pleco might do well instead of ottos?

So if I do 9ish amanos, 9ish snails, and either a few plecos or more amanos, how much room would that leave me for a group of neon/cardinal tetras? I am reading about 10 can go into a 10-gallon, but I am not sure if that is on top of the bioload of the clean up crews. Plus, plants and that big driftwood piece is taking up a lot of swim room...maybe I'm safer starting with 8 or so?


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## stlhokie (Aug 21, 2018)

jmg16 said:


> Great info, thanks. What about plecos? Do you think a few dwarf or other small species of pleco might do well instead of ottos?
> 
> So if I do 9ish amanos, 9ish snails, and either a few plecos or more amanos, how much room would that leave me for a group of neon/cardinal tetras? I am reading about 10 can go into a 10-gallon, but I am not sure if that is on top of the bioload of the clean up crews. Plus, plants and that big driftwood piece is taking up a lot of swim room...maybe I'm safer starting with 8 or so?


I've never used plecos, from what I've heard they have a pretty high bioload. Amanos and the clithons have super small bio loads. What type of filtration are you running? At the end of the day, if you have great filtration you could probably get by with 5-10 schooling fish, but I think in a small tank like you've got, it would detract from the scale of the scape if you have too many fish and are leaning more towards the overstocked side. I used to also be obsessed with the big schools of tetras you see in some of the larger aquascapes, but I think with smaller tanks its much more effective to have 2 or 3 non-schooling fish that add color/contrast. A Beta could be an option, or a gourami


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

Oh I like that idea. I definitely don't want to overstock and I agree it adds a nice element of nuance if you have to, at least sometimes, search to find the fish. A couple non-schooling fish is a good idea.

My filtration is pretty good, I am running an Oase filtosmart 100 canister filter with 160 GPH. I did turn the flow down quite a bit but it should be more than sufficient I would think.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

A small pleco would most likely put you over, even smaller plecos are quite bioload heavy and they truly aren't that good at cleaning algae. Most will either want to eat wood or more fish food. They are more omnivorous than anything. Just my 2 cents.

*Edit didn't catch the last 2 posts on this- reception is messing with me- ignore this post, my apologies.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

3-week update:

Everything is growing in quite nicely -- I even see new Eleocharis runners popping through the soil! I did what was suggested and re-planted the new submersed growth for Rotala and Ludwigia. The Bacopa I originally planted to the left of the driftwood was not doing much (not enough light?), so I removed it and put it in a grow out tank.

It's early, but I have had virtually 0 algae issues so far, which is nice. I'll credit that to a conservative photoperiod (5 hours/day for the first 2 weeks, now up to 6.5), staying vigilant with water changes, and it seems people are right when they say to plant heavy from the start!

As of yesterday my ammonia and nitrite were virtually 0. Curiously, my nitrate was also close to 0, which is not what I would expect at this point in cycling, but plants look healthy so I'm not too worried about it. Should I add some ammonia artificially and make sure it and the resulting nitrite get eaten up quickly before I consider the tank cycled? Either way, I should be ready to add livestock in the coming days (in addition to the 2 little hitchhikers that made their way in and have been cruising laps on the glass for 3 straight weeks 🐌). I'm still a little torn on that subject, but I'm thinking some combination of:

6 Neon tetra or chili rasbora
1-2 Sparkling or Dwarf Gourami
9 Nerite snails
9 Amano shrimp

If I can manage it, I really do want a small group of schooling/shoaling species and then a couple solo accent fish. The tank is 11.4 gallons and I don't want to overstock, but I also have pretty good filtration. Will take any suggestions anyone has!


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## NoodleAquatics (Mar 2, 2020)

jmg16 said:


> 3-week update:
> 
> Everything is growing in quite nicely -- I even see new Eleocharis runners popping through the soil! I did what was suggested and re-planted the new submersed growth for Rotala and Ludwigia. The Bacopa I originally planted to the left of the driftwood was not doing much (not enough light?), so I removed it and put it in a grow out tank.
> 
> ...


Go for the chili rasboras with sparkling gourami pair.

Scrap the neon tetras (they need a 20g long anyways as theyre active) and the dwarf gourami idea (dwarf gouramis can reach 3 inches in some individuals, theyre quite large for a 10 gallon, and are likely to die from dwarf gourami disease anyways. They usually do best 20 gallons and up as well... add in most sold are male, females hard to find, and 2 males in same tank will fight).

With a smaller tank and such a lovely scape, you will want smaller tank mates that don't take away from the scape, while still giving a spacious home for the fish themselves.


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## Odin (Apr 16, 2021)

I love your setup and plant choice! For a Nebie as you say, you've done a terrific start. I was reading through and alot of people gave sound advice.

Only thing I can contribute to this threat besides saying it looks fantastic is this:

If you want your carpeting plant to thrive and take off much faster separate to 3-5 blades each and then replant spacing out all over the areas you want. If you have good lighting it will really flourish...I don't use co2 in any of my tanks and I have lush thick hairgrass and monte carlo. In my tank with low light it never thrived.

Looking forward to the next update!
Ps. If you like the look of the rocks and sticks, keep em. This tank is all about what you find visually appealing and the health and happiness of your fish/critters.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

NoodleAquatics said:


> Go for the chili rasboras with sparkling gourami pair.
> 
> Scrap the neon tetras (they need a 20g long anyways as theyre active) and the dwarf gourami idea (dwarf gouramis can reach 3 inches in some individuals, theyre quite large for a 10 gallon, and are likely to die from dwarf gourami disease anyways. They usually do best 20 gallons and up as well... add in most sold are male, females hard to find, and 2 males in same tank will fight).
> 
> With a smaller tank and such a lovely scape, you will want smaller tank mates that don't take away from the scape, while still giving a spacious home for the fish themselves.


Good to know about the neons. I didn't realize they were on the more active side. Chilis are tiny and colorful and I think will make a great group for my tank! 

I also didn't realize the "dwarf" gouramis weren't the smallest of the gouramis! Will definitely be going with the sparkling, if I can get my hands on some. Would you recommend a male and female pair? Or two females? I've read they've been known to jump out of the tank, but I really dont want to add a lid... 

Is there any benefit to adding all the fish at once, or can I add the rasbora, let them settle in, then bring in the gouramis?


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

Odin said:


> I love your setup and plant choice! For a Nebie as you say, you've done a terrific start. I was reading through and alot of people gave sound advice.
> 
> Only thing I can contribute to this threat besides saying it looks fantastic is this:
> 
> ...


I appreciate the kind words! It's been a long but fun experience and I am already looking for a spot in my house for the next tank (or 3)!

Good to know about the hairgrass. Luckily, the areas I am trying to cover are pretty small, so it shouldn't take too long for it to grow in. And even if it does, I can wait  But that's reassuring that you have had success in low tech setups, even with monte carlo! I love the look of that stuff. Do you use aquasoil or does it grow for you in other substrates?

And I agree about the rocks and sticks. Like anything else, scaping is pretty subjective -- I tend to like the extra little details and elements of scale, especially in smaller tanks.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

Also, does anyone have any ideas why/how my nitrates are 0? Does that just mean my plants are absorbing ALL of it? Anything I should be concerned with?


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## NoodleAquatics (Mar 2, 2020)

jmg16 said:


> Good to know about the neons. I didn't realize they were on the more active side. Chilis are tiny and colorful and I think will make a great group for my tank!
> 
> I also didn't realize the "dwarf" gouramis weren't the smallest of the gouramis! Will definitely be going with the sparkling, if I can get my hands on some. Would you recommend a male and female pair? Or two females? I've read they've been known to jump out of the tank, but I really dont want to add a lid...
> 
> Is there any benefit to adding all the fish at once, or can I add the rasbora, let them settle in, then bring in the gouramis?


Add the chilis first, then the sparkling gouramis. Go for either a male and female or 2 females. Can be hard to sex them, look at them back-lit.
2 males will fight.



jmg16 said:


> Also, does anyone have any ideas why/how my nitrates are 0? Does that just mean my plants are absorbing ALL of it? Anything I should be concerned with?


If you dose ammonia and test after, is everything 0? If so, then essentially this is called a "silent cycle" where the plants are controlling your parameters instead of bacteria in the filter. If you notice it's staying 0 after adding ammonia, and your plants are growing well, then you can start by adding the first group of fish, monitor closely.


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

NoodleAquatics said:


> Add the chilis first, then the sparkling gouramis. Go for either a male and female or 2 females. Can be hard to sex them, look at them back-lit.
> 2 males will fight.
> 
> 
> If you dose ammonia and test after, is everything 0? If so, then essentially this is called a "silent cycle" where the plants are controlling your parameters instead of bacteria in the filter. If you notice it's staying 0 after adding ammonia, and your plants are growing well, then you can start by adding the first group of fish, monitor closely.


Well, turns out the problem is not 0 nitrates, but my reading comprehension. I was reading the API kit instructions wrong and didn't shake the solution #2 bottle. Nice. Did that, retested, and now I see ~20 ppm. That's more like it.

Ok, now, the question: should I wait for nitrates to go down a bit? Or is 20-30 ppm safe for fish/shrimp?


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## NoodleAquatics (Mar 2, 2020)

jmg16 said:


> Well, turns out the problem is not 0 nitrates, but my reading comprehension. I was reading the API kit instructions wrong and didn't shake the solution #2 bottle. Nice. Did that, retested, and now I see ~20 ppm. That's more like it.
> 
> Ok, now, the question: should I wait for nitrates to go down a bit? Or is 20-30 ppm safe for fish/shrimp?


20 is safest upper level, do a water change when it reaches 20


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## Fefethefishgirl (Aug 5, 2021)

jmg16 said:


> 3-week update:
> 
> Everything is growing in quite nicely -- I even see new Eleocharis runners popping through the soil! I did what was suggested and re-planted the new submersed growth for Rotala and Ludwigia. The Bacopa I originally planted to the left of the driftwood was not doing much (not enough light?), so I removed it and put it in a grow out tank.
> 
> ...


Hi there! I am trying to sell my chili rasboras. I live in Central MA and I have about 7-8 of them if interested. I paid 5$ each. Willing to sell for 4$ each


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

6-week update:

I ended up initially stocking with 6 chili rasbora, 1 sparking gourami (couldn't find a pair), 4 zebra nerites and 5 cherry shrimp. After a week and realizing just how tiny the rasbora are, I went back for more...and ended up coming home with 6 celestial pearl danios instead (a fish store is a dangerous place). I've been monitoring behavior closely and testing water parameters, and so far all fish seem good and bioload is under control. Long term plan is to build the CPDs an enclosure of their own because they are full-on psychopaths and their social dynamics I think call for a bigger group in a bigger enclosure. They are non-stop chasing each other around the tank, wiggling around in the hairgrass, and are _always_ front and center. I am pretty sure they are already spawning, which is providing my gourami with plenty of fresh caviar...

Also added some floating plants to help with nitrate uptake (still hovering in the 15-20 ppm range, even after a water change).

Only issue I have had is with the shrimp -- 3 of the 5 died somewhat mysteriously, and the other 2 are always hiding. I did see an exoskeleton the other day and the male darting around the tank like a madman that entire morning (in response to female molting pheromones, I assume?), so it seems like the water is ok. I am thinking maybe the other 3 were already sick when I brought them home. Any other ideas?


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

I don't know anything about shrimp, so I can't help you with that. I did want to say that the tank looks great. I love how you have the driftwood set up. It looks really unique!


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## jmg16 (Jun 17, 2021)

KatieMR said:


> I don't know anything about shrimp, so I can't help you with that. I did want to say that the tank looks great. I love how you have the driftwood set up. It looks really unique!


Thanks! it makes scaping really easy when you find an amazing piece of driftwood


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## Aquascaper1 (Jan 17, 2020)

for carpeting in my 30 gallon planted aquarium, I went with Taiwan Moss which you hear less about than Java Moss. Hey it's cool to not always do the same thing as everyone else. The Taiwan Moss is known to be able to be slightly better to be controlled than Java Moss. I attached the Taiwan Moss over time onto stainless steel pads and in time it grows like grass and it makes for nice carpeting. My Java ferns, crypts and Anubias have all been doing remarkably well but I do inject CO2 as well.


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## NoobScaper420 (Oct 14, 2021)

Plinkploop said:


> Welcome to the aquarium side 😁👍 just from personal experience- carpeting plants are difficult to impossible in low tech settings. There are plants that can be used on place of true carpeting plants that give a similar look but don't fill in the same and take longer than high tech. Mosses can be trained to look like carpets and they've done well for me giving the looks of ground cover in low tech/ no tech settings. Just my 2 cents.


How do you get moss to carpet? What kind of substrate are you using?


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