# ADA 90P journal (updated with new pictures 8-30-08)



## Guest (May 10, 2008)

The first few pages are from when I was asking questions before the tank got started. So you don't have to bother reading them if you don't want. The tank is up and running now. - SKIP TO THE LAST PAGE TO SEE CURRENT PICTURES -AND UPDATES. - THANKS!

Well I have decided to start a new journal for my ADA 90-P set up. I am in the process of picking out everything to go with it.

I am looking for a good lighting suggestion- 

Also what in-line heater do you suggest?
I was thinking of the Hydor ETH 201 200 W heater - (is that big enough for this tank?)

Also for the filter the Eheim 2217

I'm looking forward to setting up this tank - my first tank has gotten very successful - I need to take some new pics. I have no alga and my plants are growing like crazy! - what that being said I'm going to see how I can do with this tank.


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## Guest (May 13, 2008)

Well here are some teaser pictures - I am moving from Houston to Dallas on Thursday and will set this up once I get moved in next weekend.

I got the P90 and some other things today.

I also went to a rock yard (that Jeff at ADG told me about) and bought about 100 pounds of REALLY really cool Rocks (the same kind Jeff uses ) so I will have some left over to sale when I'm done scaping.

Few questions - where is a good place to buy another co2 set up?

Where can I buy a pre-made inline regulator? Not a dyi one?


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## Guest (May 13, 2008)

What is the difference between the Aquasoil amazonian regular and amazonian II?

Jeff said just to get the regular version - what is the difference?


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

regular is higher quality, and has more nutrients.


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## Matsu49 (Jan 1, 2008)

II doesn't stain the water as much. Were you talking about a in line CO2 reactor?


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## Guest (May 13, 2008)

Matsu49 said:


> II doesn't stain the water as much. Were you talking about a in line CO2 reactor?


Yes I was -
Do you suggest this one?
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~AQ7531.html

I am looking for a good one that you can buy vs. the dyi ones...

Any other ideas?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

If your going all out, I would get a Cal Aqua Labs inline diffuser..

look here..http://www.calaqualabs.com/Inline_diffusers.html


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## Guest (May 13, 2008)

Orlando said:


> If your going all out, I would get a Cal Aqua Labs inline diffuser..
> 
> look here..http://www.calaqualabs.com/Inline_diffusers.html


They don't have any in stock..

This is going to be under the tank in the stand - so it doesn't have to look "cool." i just don't want to bother with making one, or buying a home made one...that's all....

Do you know of any other good brands?

With the eheim 2217 would you think I would need the reactor 500 or the reactor 1000? or another brand?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

DIY reactor is the only other way I would go. I have built countless reactors for people with 100% satisfaction. And it dissolves 100% of the co2 you inject.


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## Guest (May 13, 2008)

Yah - I went ahead and bought this unit 

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~AQ7531.html


I was talking with Jeff and he agreed that the diy ones aren't really the way to go - it's better to have a unit like this - I know lots of people use the pvc pipes, and I"m sure they work fine - but for what I am doing I don't want that sort of "look" you know what I mean?


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## colinthebassist (Nov 30, 2007)

rick4him said:


> Yah - I went ahead and bought this unit
> 
> http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~AQ7531.html
> 
> ...



That costs $80, and is no more effective than a DIY one that costs $4 to make.


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## Guest (May 13, 2008)

I would disagree....


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Ahhhhh rick! I would have built one and shipped it to you for the cost of the 90 degree elbows for the eheim and shipping.

Dude... don't rush into things. I could have saved you $70 and you could have used that to pay for shipping on the stand that I could have built you.

SLOW DOWN!


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## Guest (May 13, 2008)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> Ahhhhh rick! I would have built one and shipped it to you for the cost of the 90 degree elbows for the eheim and shipping.
> 
> Dude... don't rush into things. I could have saved you $70 and you could have used that to pay for shipping on the stand that I could have built you.
> 
> SLOW DOWN!


Slow down? I have been looking into this for months what do you mean? I have found someone here locally to build the stand (beacuse of what it would cost to ship) and after talking with Jeff I agree it is better to spend the money and buy a store bought reactor vs. the pvc pipe stuff. ) It's alot of money to spend on a complete ADA system and then have a pvc pipe in the mix. 

I'm a sucker for nice looking stuff.

(I bought the lilly pipes today!)


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

are you going to have it out in the open? you can buy clear pvc and make it look almost identical to that one. and for "look" i would have gotten a venturi wich is $30 cheaper than that and way smaller


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

i wasn't trying to be a debby downer i'm sure you'll be happy with your purchase just a future reference


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Those Cal Aqua Lab diffusers sure look very nice..I would have waited for one of those..IDK?


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

rick4him said:


> Slow down? I have been looking into this for months what do you mean? I have found someone here locally to build the stand (beacuse of what it would cost to ship) and after talking with Jeff I agree it is better to spend the money and buy a store bought reactor vs. the pvc pipe stuff. ) It's alot of money to spend on a complete ADA system and then have a pvc pipe in the mix.
> 
> I'm a sucker for nice looking stuff.
> 
> (I bought the lilly pipes today!)



I completely understand you having the stand build localy. That makes a lot of sense to me. Buying a $80 reactor that does the same thing as the PVC reactor that will be hidden in your stand doesn't. If the PVC reactor was out in the open, I can see how the cheesyness wouldn't be cool with the ADA stand. With it going inside the stand though, what difference would it make?

Unless you are going to showcase the inside of your stand or something?


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

Well things are going great. We just made our move (and all my fish from my 25 gallon tank made it alive! )

I have rescaped that tank (will post pictures in a few days) and I am VERY exciited to set up my ADA tank - I am waiting on a few items to come in that I ordered and i'll be ready to go.

I got a good deal on a regulator and co2 tank. The brand is AZOO - I have never heard of that brand, can any one give me any feedback on that brand? Is 150 a good price for : 

10 Gallon CO2 Tank , AZOO Regulator and Solenoid, Glass Diffuser and Bubble Counter?

I thought MI was the best regulator to go with..

any advice, suggestions on where to get a set up for a good price?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Was it $150 for just the Azoo regulator?


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

Orlando said:


> Was it $150 for just the Azoo regulator?


No it included all the things I mentioned (including the co2 tank.)


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Thats good, $150 for a regulator and cylinder is a good deal.


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

is that a good brand?

as good as mi?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Yeah, they are not bad at all.


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

Another question -
I have a huge 20 gallon tank in my tank in my office at home. I have another tank that is in the living room. If I put a "splitter" on my co2 tank in my office could I run a 15-20 foot tubing to my other tank and attach it to my regulator?

I would like to not have to buy a whole seperate co2 set up - but I'm not sure if it's ok running such a long tube. (i would hide the tube real well along the base boards..)

Thoughts, has anyone done this before?


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## NwFishinfool (May 4, 2007)

Rick,

I am running my 26g and 75g off one C02 cylinder/regulator. They are about 30 feet apart. It works fine as long as you use C02 tubing and not standard silicone. Silicone tubing will lose too much C02 on such a long run.

Make sure you use a separate bubble counter and needle valve for each tank.

Mike


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Its best to build a manifold directly attached to your solenoid. With this you will have separate bubble counters and needle valves working at your desired BPS. Its the way to go...


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

That's what I was planning to do (buying a mini manifold like on Rex Grigg's site) - i just wanted to make sure that the length was ok - (that seems like a long way for co2 tubing...) but then I figure since I don't have to buy a whole new co2 rig, I can invest in a really nice manifold, and 2 really nice needle valves...
Do you guys agree that this is a good way to go?


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

i don't understand why you would buy an reactor that costs $80 but wouldn't buy the best regulator from orlando


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

nate_mcnasty said:


> i don't understand why you would buy an reactor that costs $80 but wouldn't buy the best regulator from orlando



What do you mean? It's not just buying a regulator -it's the regulator, co2 tank, etc...Plus I already have one - why not simply use what I already have? 

Why would I need a second regulator when I already have a nice one?


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

why not buy the best regulator you can get? if your spending all this money on nice looking things. i don't under stand why you would buy an azoo regulator when your going to be modifying it so much that it will end up being the same price as the best regulator you can get (keeping in mined that you got it in a pack) you won't be even using the diffuser and keep in mined that orlando the one that has been helping you out this hole time sells regulators and parts for them apposed to rex


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

So when you say reactor - are you really talking about a reactor, needle valve, bubble counter, co2 tank, etc?

Seems like your talking about buying a whole separate reactor...why not just run a long co2 cable?

How much does Orlando charge for them? THen i still need to buy another tank right?


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

no i'm just saying you should have bought a better regulator


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

I didn't buy an Azoo regulator...I was just asking about it..

I don't own an azoo regulator - I have a much better one - I was thinking of getting an Azoo for my second co2 rig - then I just thought about running another cable - you see what I mean?


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

oh i see what you mean then i would just split and run both tanks off of one 

green leaf aquariums is orlando's site it's the one in my sig


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

Oh ok - thanks.. Sorry for the confusion.. What manifold and needle valves do you suggest buying? and where should I buy them from?


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

i'm not good with that stuff hit up orlando send him a pm. he knows all of this kind of stuff. he will hook you up with the best stuff


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

*Manifold*

Look at this here...Its a cruddy pic but you get the idea.


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

isn't it beautiful


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

Good news - It looks like I'm going to go ahead and just complete the entire ADA system - I'm ordering a Grand Solar One today!! I can't wait!


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

whoa...you're getting their CO2 setup too? with the "scented" CO2?


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

thats a ton of money wow


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

Nooooo that's where I draw the line - co2, is co2!


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

my thought's exactly!! If you get a copy of the ADA catalog, there's a refillable CO2 tank called "tower" - it looks way nice, but I'm not sure if you can buy it in the states yet (54,600 yen). They also have this thing called an 'air sweeper' (in glass and metal options) that is "designed for adding effects of aroma, deodorizing and disinfection to the air sent to the aquarium tank..." you use it in conjunction with their "forest fragrance clean beads." If only money were no object, eh? I'd drop 10,290 yen on a glass air deodorizer...

Just FYI - 54,600 yen is $521.56 american (expensive CO2 tank), which would make the deodorizer right around $98. why not by 3?


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## Guest (May 19, 2008)

True -

I just hope this bright idea I have of running the co2 from one room to another...


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

Well I FINALLY got my ADA 90P stand up and running. Here is the set up..

What you think?

(by the way -it took a LONG time to get everything going smooth under the tank!)


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## Matt M (May 24, 2008)

That looks very nice. I love your hardscape. Hopefully when you get the plants in there they're do well.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

Thanks so much - those rocks are from a Rock yard that Jeff over at ADG told me about. I drove up there and picked up a bunch of them. I have alot left over if anyone is interested. May be able to ship them in the flat rate box so the shipping isn't that much.

I just planted some HC, so I'll see how that takes off. Then I plan on putting some nice hair grass in the back..

By the way here is the stats on this tank

Tank - ADA 90P
Stand - ADA Look-a-like stand that I had custom made
bottom layer : Tourmaline BC
2nd layer - 1 bag power sand
3rd layer - 3 bags ADA Aquasoil
Pressured CO2 - using a Aquamedica Reactor 1000
ADA glass Lilly Pipes (inflow, and outflow)
Eheim 2217 Filter
ADA Clear tubing - for inflow, and outlflow
ADA Grand Solar 1 light (this is the most expense light I have ever bought by the way...but it's awesome)
ADA Grand Solar 1 light stand
ADA Ferts - Step1, Brighty K, Special Lights, ECA, Green Gain, Green Bactar
Also using All ADA filter Media (Palm Net, Bio Rio, Bamboo Charcoal, NA Carbon)
Regulator from Orlando - his best one (for co2)
co2 - 20 pound tank
aquimedic reactor 1000 (for co2 diffusion)
ADA Garden Mat
ADA Pro-Pincettes M with grip (tweezers) (for larger stem plants)
ADA Pro-Pincettes M (tweezers) (for small plants)
ADA Pro-Scissors - curve type
ADA Brighty K, Step 1, Special lights, ECA, Green Gain, Green Bacatar for ferts


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## dthb4438 (Nov 12, 2007)

I got two reactors from Orlando for $25 each, both tucked under the stand, not visible in any way, looks way cool, high tech and does an outstanding job diffusing all C02 in the water. I am a very satisfied customer of the in-line reactor. He even specially built one for me that was a little bit shorter for my 29 gallon (the stand is smaller) and again, it is a perfect solution. I have tried countless reactors, diffusers and airstones, only to give them away on RAOK's or sell them. Just my opinion.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

I bought one of Orlando's regulator's for this tank. It is working great.

I bought the Aquimedic reactor simply to avoid having to make one, and Jeff over at ADG suggested buying this one vs. the DYI one...


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

Beautiful tank. Nice amount of hc you got there lol.

Orlando sells reactors?

Is it like a special order thing because i don't see it in his shop


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

Oh maybe I'm confused. I bought a reactor off of a guy here - I thought his name was Orlando - maybe I was wrong.

In regards to the HC - thanks. I bought it off of ebay and it came in two large mats. Instead of doing stem, by stem, I just sort of broke off chunks, and sort of buried the ends in the substrate - we'll see how it goes.

This was alot of money to spend on a tank (and all the gear that goes with it) -but I am very excited to see how it fills in. This is sort of the centerpiece of my living room (this or the plasma  ) so I hope i can get it to look nice!

Jeff over at ADG is just great to deal with. If anyone is every thinking of buying any ADA products he treats every customer like they are spending a million dollars - so I HIGHLY recommend him!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

That's a lot of Aquasoil and light without a lot of plant mass...
What are your water parameters like? NH3 has to be off the charts!


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

That is what you are supposed to have for the 90P - 3 - 9 liter bags. That isn't to much, that is just right.

The tank was just set up - so yes the water stats are all out of wack, which is why I do not put fish in the tank for 4 weeks.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

rick4him said:


> That is what you are supposed to have for the 90P - 3 - 9 liter bags. That isn't to much, that is just right.
> 
> The tank was just set up - so yes the water stats are all out of wack, which is why I do not put fish in the tank for 4 weeks.


I wasn't questioning the amount of Aquasoil, but commenting on how there is a low plant mass in relation to the Aquasoil. More plants - especially stems (even if you don't plan on keeping them in there permanantly) will help the treacherous early stages of setup. If you aren't sure what I'm getting at, check CmLaracy's 75-P journal. I'm sure he can chime in and offer some advice on a new setup with original Aquasoil.

Lots and lots and lots of water changes for a few weeks -- fun stuff indeed, but well worth it in the end. If you don't already have it, may I recommend some "Bacter 100"? It really helps if it's under the substrate, but can be put directly into the water column as well (small amounts, of course). That, coupled with daily dosing of "Green Bacter" will help you out a great deal with cycling the tank.

How long is your photoperiod, and what combination of lights are you using right now? Any ferts?

The layout looks very nice, BTW!


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey thank you so much. I am using the Grand Solar one light. Jeff told me to leave it on 10 hours a day (3 hours with just the florescent, then 4 hours of metal h. and florescent then 3 more just florescent) He said I should do this from the get go.

I am using Brighty K (5 pumps per day) and Green Bacatar (18 drops each day the first week)

Then in a month I will use step one, special lights, ECA, ...

is this ok?

As far as water changes, is 50% every 2 days ok? Does this help out with an alga outbreak?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Advice from Jeff can't be a bad thing, but 10 hours seems like a lot to me. 

I did 50% changes every day for a week, then every other day for the second week. Get an NH3 test kit if you don't already have one, and monitor daily.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i like your rock placement. i know its not what you were asking, but i dont know the answer to that and i doubt you will mind the compliment.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

Very impressive list of products you've purchased. I suppose your wallet has seen better days. 

If you don't mind, would you give a ballpark estimate of the total cost of this setup? 

I'm in the planning stages of my next tank venture, a 75 gallon, and am curious how your name brand setup compares.

Did you think about doing a dry-start setup for your HC?


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

Marko - Thanks so much for the compliment. I was worried that the rocks didn't look nice where i put them, and it is my first time doing a tank like this. So thank you.

Eyebeatbadgers - Your right, my wallet has seen better days - this thing is a MAJOR investment. I bought everything over time, but if you go to Jeff's ADG website you can price out everything I bought. With everything I'm right around 3000 dollars...(you can knock off a third of that if you don't get the same light I got....That light is pricy, but MANNNN it is awesome...If you haven't ever seen one in person you should....it's insane how it makes your tank look.)

The lily pipers were around 100 a piece, plus I bought two sets of ADA tweezers, and some of their scissors - which are AMAZING!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What a difference from your first 'scape!

Very nice hardscape Rick- it will look *incredible* once everything's all grown in. :thumbsup: 

What are your thoughts so far for livestock?


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> What a difference from your first 'scape!
> 
> Very nice hardscape Rick- it will look *incredible* once everything's all grown in. :thumbsup:
> 
> What are your thoughts so far for livestock?


Ha,ha - man your right...

remember when I was writing 100 posts a day? ha,ha

I think I am either going to do rummy nose tetras, or card. tetras - I'm going to do a large school of one of the two in about a month when things get settled.


Thanks so much for the comments - I'm glad you like. I was worried the rock placement didn't look nice, this is my first attempt at something this nice, so thank you.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

LOL yep, I do :hihi: Ya had me running all over the place trying to keep up with you! ROFL

I really like the hardscape. Looks very mountainous, more like the Rockies than the Blue Ridge- you know what I mean?

You know I'm biased so I'm going to say go with Cardinals! :biggrin: 

Do you have a list of your plants posted yet? If so I'm missing it somewhere...

My 2cents would be to go with 2 maybe 3 species of plants at most, so the focus of the tank stays on the rocks. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

Here are some pictures of the items I bought - fyi

By the way - as far as plants - I am doing hc everywhere but the back of the tank. In the back I am doing dwarf hair grass...that's it..nice, clean look.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Oh very nice :thumbsup: 

Have you thought about floating some fast-growing stems up until the slower-growing plants get established, though? It might help to ward off algae.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

I had heard that, but didn't really know how to do it. Do I just get a bunch of stem plants, and let them swirl around up top?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Pretty much. Hydrocoytle is doing pretty good floating in my tank ATM (wasn't planned that way, but my current keeps pulling it out from where I WANT it to stay LOL). I tried Salvinia, but it was so small it kept getting pushed under water and clogging my filter intakes. I'm trying Red root floater next. You might want to try a hardy stem, like water sprite or hornwort. Hornwort is a pretty fast grower and a good nutrient hog. One of the nice things about floating big stem plants is they're easy to remove when you're done with them.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

Here are some pictures from today. I am doing a 50% water change every day for the first week to help with the high ammonia from the aquasoil.

Here are some pictures from today - I hope you enjoy.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Ooooo,Ahhh..Very trick indeed. Cant wait to see this gem polish up with a nice green carpet. Well done Rick


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## crc (May 15, 2008)

Rick,

I sent you a PM but do you mind telling me the name of the rock yard in houston where you got those rocks?


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

I like it, well done! And I'm truly jealous of your light!!

One critique I have, that's really too late to make a difference, is that you should have sloped the substrate a lot more, as thats a large part of Iwagumi scapes. 

My advice to you right now would be to keep your photoperiod low, less than 7 hours. Keep your water changes frequent, about 50% DAILY, as you have a VERY LOW bioload in there, nothing to suck up the ammonia. If you could do more than 50%, I'd say by all means do it. As much WC's as you can, you really don't want Diatoms 

High levels of CO2 as well. If there's no fish or shrimp in there (I hope, the ammonia and ammonium will kill them) I'd say pump up your CO2 levels past 40ppms... really as high as you can get them. Then after everything settles bring it back to 30-35ppms. 

Looks nice and good luck. Have fun with it.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Rick, those rocks look awesome man! well done.

If you need some hairgrass shoot me a pm I have a ton


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

CmLaracy said:


> I like it, well done! And I'm truly jealous of your light!!
> 
> One critique I have, that's really too late to make a difference, is that you should have sloped the substrate a lot more, as thats a large part of Iwagumi scapes.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks man - yah the light IS nice.

So now I'm bummed about now sloping it enough in the back. Do you think I should redo it before its to late?

Is it THAT bad?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

It's your tank, you decide.
If you have more aquasoil, you can just add it to the back and leave the front alone since planting HC is such a PITA. And/Or suck up some aquasoil out of the front into a bucket and replace it in the back. That way you can at least leave the middle area alone and not have to replant everything.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

But the hc is in the front of the tank. when I look at the tank from the side the back is actually sloped up - how much higher should it be? Is the only way to do it to take everything out and start over? Man I hope not..

Does it look that much better to have a high slop in the back? Man I REALY don't want to start over..


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

LOL I sure wouldn't start over.

I think you should be able to trim the plants to give the illusion of slope.

I don't think a back-to-front slope would show up too well anyways with the way the hardscape is arranged.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

no need to start over, but a general rule of thumb is that you should have a gradual slope going from front to back, with the front being about 4cm deep, and the back about 8cm. Also, sloping the sides downwards a bit makes a nice affect. You could siphon some of the soil out of the front a bit. You could also use a flattener to straighten out the AS that is against the front pane to make it look neater. 

And I can see your powersand, why'd you put it in the front? lol

here's what I'm talking about, this is before I put in the powder AS to bring the front up to 4cm though....


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

Man this was my first time. Do you think I should drain all the water and fix the power sand issue, and the sand issue, and start over? For all the money I spent I REALLY don't want to have a shotty looking tank..

Also that HC is in the front so I can't take auqasoil from the front, because the hc is there.

Man this STINKS! Is this going to be to hard to fix?


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## kennkh (May 25, 2007)

I started my own tank without a large slope and the "flatness" of my tank bothered me for months. Just a few days ago, I decided to pull the plants out, create a large slope and then replant it all. In my opinion, a large slope really does make the tank look nicer.

Amano's iwagumis seem to have a huge slope from front to back. In the back, his substrate goes almost halfway up the tank. If you have the ADA 2006 catalog, you can see how he sets up the slope on page 37. He's only using HC and hairgrass in that tank too, so it's somewhat similar to yours, though he uses different rocks.

However, maintaining such a large slope is difficult unless you plant very heavily in the beginning. Even Amano isn't immune to a settling slope. If you compare the initial substrate level on the page 37 tank to the substrate level of the finished tank on page 38, you'll notice that his substrate leveled off a bit from back to front.

If you don't have the catalog and have no idea what I'm talking about, let me know and maybe I can try and scan the page for you.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

That would be great, would you mind. I think I have 2007 and 2008 and but not 2006. 

So if I do this I have to pull the rocks out also?

By the way there is no way to fix the power sand showing up front is there? MAN I CAN'T BELIEVE I DID THAT, now I'm going to look at that every time I see the tank. I REALLY don't want to have to pull all of that aquasoil out of the tank.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

Ok I actually do have the catalog. So he has high back corners and low middle is that right?

Do I need to redo my rocks also you think?


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## lekyiscool (May 27, 2008)

wow what a beaut !!

what site are you refering to when you said "Jeff's ADG" site could ya send me a link?

also could you link me to the light stand you got there its awsome


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## kennkh (May 25, 2007)

Here are some quick scans of the pages, sorry about the big creases in the middle of the pages.

pg 36-37 The Style of ADA 2006:










pg 38-39 The Style of ADA 2006:


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

lekyiscool said:


> wow what a beaut !!
> 
> what site are you refering to when you said "Jeff's ADG" site could ya send me a link?
> 
> also could you link me to the light stand you got there its awsome


Hey thank you. I'm thinking it looks bad now due to the powersand showing, and the fact that I don't have the slope right.

the link is www.adgshop.com

I like the light stand also.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

kennkh said:


> Here are some quick scans of the pages, sorry about the big creases in the middle of the pages.
> 
> pg 36-37 The Style of ADA 2006:
> 
> ...


Thanks for scanning that for me. I found my 2006 catalog. I can't really tell from the pictures, is it just the back corners that have a big slope, and the back middle is low?


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## kennkh (May 25, 2007)

Oh I didn't see your post saying that you had that catalog.

You don't have to have high back corners and a low middle if you don't like the look. You can do something like what's shown in CmLarcy's picture or a have it higher from one corner going down to the other corner. I think a flat back will be ok too, though the ADA iwagumis I've seen tend to have that "hilly" look. I'm sure there are some examples of iwagumis online that you can look at.

When I was redoing the slope in my tank, I didn't change the hardscape. I think the hardscape in your tank looks good. Whether or not you change it really depends on whether you like it if you increase the slope.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

Well I went ahead and fixed the issue with the slope. I wanted to do that before everything filled in.

I did a slop on the back corners, and also changed some of the placement of the rocks.

I also planted the HC the right way (stem by stem - which took FOREVER). With the way I had it before it wasn't able to root, so I just did it the right way.

I think it will look really nice when the hc forms a carpet across the front, and the dwarf hair-grass in the back.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah, it definately looks better now. and the HC will do better as well. also, maybe you would want to lower the MH a bit if possible, it looks like it casts a lot of light out of the tank.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

WOW, looks a lot better. Kudos to a job well done! Good perseverance!


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

CmLaracy said:


> WOW, looks a lot better. Kudos to a job well done! Good perseverance!


wow really?? That means alot coming from you. (and you to Mott) 

I was worried that the rock placement was really bad( I took some out) or my slopes werent right, or the right side looked empty )

Thanks for telling me i did a good job. I tried to think more about the placement of the stones more so then the first time. (if u can tell)

I can't wait for it all to grow in. I'm only using brighty k and green Bacter for the first three-four weeks(per jeff) then I'll use eca, step one, and green gain

I'm also doing 75% water change daily for first week then I'll switch to every 3 days the second week, then every three days on the third, and finally 50% per week. 

Also the light is about 10 inches from the surface(again per jeff) I think the pictures make It look higher. 

Thanks again for your feedback. That makes me feel good.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

rick4him said:


> wow really?? That means alot coming from you. (and you to Mott)
> 
> I was worried that the rock placement was really bad( I took some out) or my slopes werent right, or the right side looked empty )
> 
> ...


Later on I'd move that light up to about 12"

One thing I really want to say, is that the rock placement this time around is MUCH MUCH BETTER. Before, it was a little schitzohrentic, there was stuff going on everywhere, and no focal point. Now you have a dominant stone, and a secondary dominant stone, with nice complimentary stones. The way a TRUE iwagumi should be. Nice work

Now may I critique?

You did a good job with the sloping, and I know your going to hate me for this, but there's still too much soil in the front. If you're having a hard time getting it anywhere else in the tank, siphon it out, cause it's too high in the front. I think if you nail that, and keep up with the maintenance, you'll have one BANGIN' tank. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

CmLaracy said:


> Later on I'd move that light up to about 12"
> 
> One thing I really want to say, is that the rock placement this time around is MUCH MUCH BETTER. Before, it was a little schitzohrentic, there was stuff going on everywhere, and no focal point. Now you have a dominant stone, and a secondary dominant stone, with nice complimentary stones. The way a TRUE iwagumi should be. Nice work
> 
> ...


Hey thanks again man. As for the soil is about 1.8 inches in front. I think I'm going to have to let it stay that way. That hc was no fun to plant and u don't want to do it again. I think it will be good once the ground cover grows in nicely. 

As far as the rocks I did much more research this time around on the placement.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

rick4him said:


> As far as the rocks I did much more research this time around on the placement.


 Hate to say it, _but I told you so_


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## kennkh (May 25, 2007)

CmLaracy said:


> You did a good job with the sloping, and I know your going to hate me for this, but there's still too much soil in the front. If you're having a hard time getting it anywhere else in the tank, siphon it out, cause it's too high in the front. I think if you nail that, and keep up with the maintenance, you'll have one BANGIN' tank. :thumbsup:


Hah, I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to give rick4him even more cause to stress over his tank.

Your tank looks great, but I agree with CmLaracy that it would look a bit better if you lowered the substrate in front and maybe moved it to create a even larger mound in the back. I think its better to err with a lower front/higher back since the substrate does tend to settle a bit over time on those largely sloping tanks.

I really think your rock placement looks a lot better this time around. If you do decide to redo the substrate again, I think this time you can leave your rocks as is. Hopefully, you'll be able to work around the plants as well.

Again, your tank looks great. It might look a bit better if you did what CmLaracy is suggesting, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. You'd have to weigh the small aesthetic improvement against the all the work you'd have to do put into replanting your HC and such.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

kennkh said:


> Hah, I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to give rick4him even more cause to stress over his tank.
> 
> Your tank looks great, but I agree with CmLaracy that it would look a bit better if you lowered the substrate in front and maybe moved it to create a even larger mound in the back. I think its better to err with a lower front/higher back since the substrate does tend to settle a bit over time on those largely sloping tanks.
> 
> ...


Yah I see what your saying, but to be honest it is 1.5 inches and I think the pictures make it look larger then it is. I may move some from the right side and make that side a little more even, but I think once everything grows in it's going to be really hard to tell. That green ground cover will look really nice once it covers the top. (there is NO WAY i"m replanting all that again! ) I would have to replant that stuff, plus the hairgrass in the back, plus deal with SUPER murky water again. I don't think the difference would be THAT difference, ya know. 

thanks for all the feedback, I'm glad you like how I placed the rocks!


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## lekyiscool (May 27, 2008)

thanks for the link!
that light stand is not on the site =( , did you make it?


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

I love your new hardscape. 

Its cool how you kind of made a valley in the middle and i can't wait for the hc to grow in


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

Lekyiscool - it is the very last item under the "lighting" section. It is the ADA Grand Solar Light stand. 

CobraGuppy -thanks so much, I'm glad you like it. I also can't wait for the HC, and the Hairgrass to grow in. I think the issues with the front of the substrate being to thick will not be a big deal once things grow in. It just looks blank now since there is nothing there but soil. 

But thanks for the feedback everyone.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2008)

Just wanted to give everyone an update on my ammonia. It was 8.0 or wed, and today it is 2.0. I am still doing 60% water changes daily for the first week and then I will go to every two days the following week.

Just wanted to give you all an update.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2008)

Well here is the tank after planting some hairgrass I got from Mott today! (thanks so much Mott)

I CAN NOT wait to see this tank in a month after the hairgrass and hc grows in.

I'm only dosing Brighty K for the first month or so until the tank is est. so I hope the plants hold up.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

it looks nice. full and kinda big. 

your tank has a blue sheen. do you know why, it looks kinda weird?


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> it looks nice. full and kinda big.
> 
> your tank has a blue sheen. do you know why, it looks kinda weird?


Hey thanks! It is kind of big (and a little scarry:wink: ) - but thanks for the feedback.

as far as the color of the tank - I do know why it is that color... ....It's called the Grand Solar One..
ha,ha..

Man that M/H light they have on that thing gives everything a REALLY cool look. You would have to see it in person, but it is awesom


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

No man, it's your camera. The grand solar I has an 8000K HQI in it, which gives off a lot of green, and almost no blue. Fix your settings.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Rick that hardscape is AWESOME, I love those rocks!
Good luck with the plants!


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2008)

CmLaracy said:


> No man, it's your camera. The grand solar I has an 8000K HQI in it, which gives off a lot of green, and almost no blue. Fix your settings.


Actually the picture looks almost exactly what it looks like in person. It does give off sort of a blue tint. I'm using a SLR camera, and the settings are correct. Also the bulb is the 8000k hqi bulb....


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

rick4him said:


> Actually the picture looks almost exactly what it looks like in person. It does give off sort of a blue tint. I'm using a SLR camera, and the settings are correct. Also the bulb is the 8000k hqi bulb....


Yeah, I said it was the 8000K HQI, the ADA bulb that is known for giving off extreme amounts of green. I'd know, I have one.

What color are your walls, white? I find it very strange that there's any blue. It's most likely just the bulb burning into it's final color. Metal halide bulbs usually take about 100 hours of burn time to show/emit their true color, so you may find that in a month or two there will be a lot less blue, and a lot more green.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2008)

CmLaracy said:


> Yeah, I said it was the 8000K HQI, the ADA bulb that is known for giving off extreme amounts of green. I'd know, I have one.
> 
> What color are your walls, white? I find it very strange that there's any blue. It's most likely just the bulb burning into it's final color. Metal halide bulbs usually take about 100 hours of burn time to show/emit their true color, so you may find that in a month or two there will be a lot less blue, and a lot more green.


Hey man that must be what it is. I have only had this light set up for a week, and since the m/h comes out for a burst, I bet it's only been on 20 or so hours. So I guess it will get "greener". So does it look even better once the bulb gets to be the right color?


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

rick4him said:


> Hey man that must be what it is. I have only had this light set up for a week, and since the m/h comes out for a burst, I bet it's only been on 20 or so hours. So I guess it will get "greener". So does it look even better once the bulb gets to be the right color?


What your seeing right now would be considered _ugly_ to anybody that uses metal halide. Trust me, it gets _that_ much nicer. Metal halide lighting is considered some of the most aesthetically pleasing lighting out there. It only gets better from here on out. A LOT BETTER. roud:


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2008)

CmLaracy said:


> What your seeing right now would be considered _ugly_ to anybody that uses metal halide. Trust me, it gets _that_ much nicer. Metal halide lighting is considered some of the most aesthetically pleasing lighting out there. It only gets better from here on out. A LOT BETTER. roud:


sweet man..I can't wait to see it.

Hey I have a question for you - I'm doing daily water changes for the first week or so. 

Also I am only using Brighty K (5 pumps) daily in my tank. Is it really ok not to use any ferts (other then brighty K) for the first month? It seems like a long time with no ferts. Is the Brighty K enough? I assume you don't want to add any other ferts (step 1, special lights, eca, green gain, etc) for the first month because the cycle isn't done yet and it can cause alega. Is this correct?

Also is the daily water changes I am doing right now keeping the alga from coming? Can I switch to every other day next week, or do I need to keep changing them daily? Is is the purpose for doing daily the water changes the first week? Some people say you aren't supposed to change the water so much while the tank is cycling (even though I am doing it anyways) - just curious what changing the water every day is actually doing for my system.

Also am I removing the green bacter every time I do a water change? (i put in 18 drops every day during the first week like the bottle says.)


thanks.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2008)

So I was doing my water change today and I noticed there was some film stuff on the glass. Not alga, it is clear, like a clear film. Does this have something to do with the cycling of the tank?

this was the first time I have noticed this in the tank.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

can you get a picture? is it only on the glass?


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> can you get a picture? is it only on the glass?


Well it isn't anything that you would be able to see in a picture. It just a real thin slimy, film. 

As far as is it anywhere else,as I was doing the water change it did feel as if it may have been a bit in the water as well.

By the way it isn't surface film, I know what that is, and this isn't it.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I have gotten that film stuff before, It goes away after a huge wc, with me, I always do wc, then I decide to do a big wc and it clears up over night


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thats closely related to ammonia. i had it in uncycled fish bowls which i put my betta in for quarantine. i did water changes but i tested and still saw ammonia, so i removed the betta in a cup to scrub the bowl with my hands and do a 100% WC, the film was there. it kind of came back the next day, but not as bad. so after you cycle you will be fine.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Well.....

How's it going?


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Well.....
> 
> How's it going?


Hey things are going really. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks that this tank has been set up. I have ZERO alega at this point.(knock on wood - I hope when my cycle finishes I don't have a huge bloom!) The plants are starting to grow (the hc is actually growing very nicely. Even the ones that looked to be dead are starting to get some nice green steams on them.)

I am going to start changing water every 3 days instead of every 2 days starting next week. I am still at 10 hours of light (10 hours of PC with a 4 hour BURST of the m/h lights.) I'm doing 4 pumps of brighty K, and 18 drops of Green Bactar a day. I am also at 1bps of co2 - which I will up to 1.5-2 at the 30 day mark. 

I am at 1.0ppm ammonia
.50 - nitrite
10 - nitrate 

So it looks like everything is cycling along well. I'm hoping to get that ammonia down to 0 this week - but we'll see. I can't wait to add fish - but that will be a while. When the ammonia goes to 0 I'll add some Amanio Shrimp, and maybe 2-5 card. tetras - then I'll add fish slowly over the course of a month or so until I can get my tank stocked to about 40-50 card. tetras....

Here are some current pictures - enjoy!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

good to hear that everything is doing well.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

looking great. One reccomendation, and this time _only_ one. Up your burst period a bit, as those PC's don't do much in the way of getting light to the plants. One, because they are very high up, and two, they are low wattage and kinda inefficient. If you ask Jeff he'll basically tell you the same thing. The main light source from your fixture is the MH, and the PC's are used to fill in the right and lefts sides of the tank that the halide may otherwise not light. Halides have a maximum spread of about 2.5ft so you need the PC's to fill in the other half a foot so you don't have dark corners. For now, up your burst to about 5 hours. When it's done cycling bump it up to about 8 hours. You're going to want 1 hour of PC's in the morning , 1 hour at night only with the PC's, and Metal Halide for 8 hours in between. That's exactly how Amano does his tanks. 10 hours total, a warm up and a cool down, 8 hour MH. What you're doing right now with the lights is good as it keeps algae at bay, but once your cycle is done your going to need to do what I recommended if you want to see optimal growth. (or something similar)

Very nice overall, this tank will look wonderful once grown in. Oh, and one more thing, turn of the lights in the room when you take your photo's, and try and take them at night when there's a lot of pearling and no ambient light :icon_wink 

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

Here are some updated pictures from tonight. Things seem to be going really well. The HC and the hair grass is still growing very well. Just wanted to give you all some updated pictures.

Hope you enjoy!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The plants are starting to grow in very nicely.

I wouldn't have put Otos in at this point, so I do hope they do OK! Are you feeding them?


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> The plants are starting to grow in very nicely.
> 
> I wouldn't have put Otos in at this point, so I do hope they do OK! Are you feeding them?


Yelp- things are going fine. I talked to Jeff over at ADG and he said I was fine for the otos and shrimp so I put some in - they are doing great. (no need to feed them, there is lots of grub from them around the tank!)

thanks for the feedback...just waiting for it all to grow in..tick, tick, tick


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its growing great. its going to look amazing once HC fills in all those cracks in the rock.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

hey rick - how's the cycle coming? tank's looking great! Im curious as to your water parameters - I'd like to compare them to mine! My tank is _still_ cycling....

oh ywah - what ever happened with that crazy looking, unidentifiable "grey-dust" algae...no wait...I think it should be called "dust bunny algae." yeah, that sounds better.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> hey rick - how's the cycle coming? tank's looking great! Im curious as to your water parameters - I'd like to compare them to mine! My tank is _still_ cycling....
> 
> oh ywah - what ever happened with that crazy looking, unidentifiable "grey-dust" algae...no wait...I think it should be called "dust bunny algae." yeah, that sounds better.


Hey man - that stuff was crazy - but it went away.. Just cycle stuff I guess.

My water stats as of today are -

Nitrite - .25
Nitrate - 10
Ammonia - .50
Phosphate - .25

How does this compare to yours?


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

Mine's a bit further along. As of Sunday:
NO3: 5ppm+
NO2: 0
NH3: just barely above 0 (you've got to love accuracy like that). 

I've been somewhat hesitant to add fish, but I think its time. How are your oto's? Your shrimp still doing okay?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ammonia and nitrites?! poor otos; hope they pull through for you.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> ammonia and nitrites?! poor otos; hope they pull through for you.


yeah I'd recommend more frequent wc's so you don't burn those fish up.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> Mine's a bit further along. As of Sunday:
> NO3: 5ppm+
> NO2: 0
> NH3: just barely above 0 (you've got to love accuracy like that).
> ...


Actually everything is doing great. I added more ottos - got around 10 total now.

I also added around 30 shrimp in this tank.

They are seem to be doing great - eating away at everything as we speak.

I was talking to Jeff over at ADG and he said he never uses a test kit to test water stats, and he always puts these in during week 4 and never has a problem. So I did the same...He said not to worry about the water stats. So I took his advice.

As far as water changes go - I am doing a 50% every 2 days until the water gets to the right point.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Rick, you should step up the WC's to 2 50% a day if you can. those Oto's are in grave danger, they are very sensitive fish. They may look fine to you but things could start going bad at a moments notice.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

mott said:


> Rick, you should step up the WC's to 2 50% a day if you can. those Oto's are in grave danger, they are very sensitive fish. They may look fine to you but things could start going bad at a moments notice.


2 50% a day? Really? So how does that effect my dosing, photo pierod, etc.

I always do water changes early in the morning before the lights come on, and before the photo time starts. 

If I were to change my water 2 times a day how would I dose? Or would I simply does really early in the morning, and then really late at night before bed time?


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

rick4him said:


> If I were to change my water 2 times a day how would I dose? Or would I simply does really early in the morning, and then really late at night before bed time?


Just squirt your ADA super juice after each WC... youl be fine. I'm just worried you are gonna lose some fish if you don't do at least one 50% WC a day. Two would be best but you might be ok with one WC.

Your cycle is looking like it's just about done so it won't be long.

One more thing, I think you should have _some_ sort of ripple on the surface you need at least a little oxygen exchange.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

mott said:


> Just squirt your ADA super juice after each WC... youl be fine. I'm just worried you are gonna lose some fish if you don't do at least one 50% WC a day. Two would be best but you might be ok with one WC.
> 
> Your cycle is looking like it's just about done so it won't be long.
> 
> One more thing, I think you should have _some_ sort of ripple on the surface you need at least a little oxygen exchange.


Hey thanks so much. I actually put my lily pipe up at night and creates lots of oxygen...


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2008)

Finally!!! Ammonia is at 0. Now I'm just waiting for my nitrites is still at .25...

when the ammonia goes to 0 does the nitrites follow closely behind?


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

mott said:


> Just squirt your ADA super juice after each WC


ADA super juice...ha! :thumbsup: 


mott said:


> One more thing, I think you should have _some_ sort of ripple on the surface you need at least a little oxygen exchange.


You know, rick, if you position your lily right you'll get a nice whirlpool effect on the surface; motts right, surface rippling is great for a number of reasons, including hastening gas exchange (since there's no actual breaking of the water surface CO2 outgassing won't be an issue) and providing a really nice aesthetic effect. Glad to hear your oto's and shrimp are doing well. Look forward to some more pictures.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> surface rippling is great for a number of reasons, including hastening gas exchange (since there's no actual breaking of the water surface CO2 outgassing won't be an issue)


huh, I didnt know this. Good to know


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

mott said:


> Just squirt your ADA super juice after each WC... youl be fine. I'm just worried you are gonna lose some fish if you don't do at least one 50% WC a day. Two would be best but you might be ok with one WC.
> 
> Your cycle is looking like it's just about done so it won't be long.
> 
> One more thing, I think you should have _some_ sort of ripple on the surface you need at least a little oxygen exchange.


If you think about it, the increased gas exchange to some point is a function of surface area...by increasing the surface area of the tank, however so slight, you're helping increase gas exchange. 

Here's a really interesting link to an article called "Turbulence and Wave Breaking Effects on Air-Water Gas Exchange" - be warned, it's kind of technical. 
http://complex.umd.edu/papers/breakinggas2000.pdf

Although they conclude that : "until breaking waves occur, the primary role of the wave state is to provide a means for transport and mixing 
of the surface layer, via turbulence..." 

(keep in mind they're talking about the ocean here)

They continue later that: "Once wave breaking occurs, the ingassing rate jumps...The onset of high amplitude acoustic events is correlated with the onsets of wave breaking and broadband spectra in the wave height. There is also a corresponding increase in O2 absorption rates."

so, if increasing breaking wave height corresponds to increasing 02 ingassing, then certainly ripples on the surface of a body of water would be more effective at gas exchange than no surface movement at all.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

I always have the whirlpool effect going on. It happens when you use the Lilly pipe, then I move it up at night to air out the tank...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

rick4him said:


> Finally!!! Ammonia is at 0. Now I'm just waiting for my nitrites is still at .25...
> 
> when the ammonia goes to 0 does the nitrites follow closely behind?


They should.

What water change schedule are you running now?

You do need to keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrIte right after water changes- if you still get peaks then you're not quite out of the woods yet, but very close.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

Here are some updated pictures for today. 

My ammonia and nitrite are both at ZERO!

Nitrate - 10

Phosphate - 0 (this is a weird one - how could it be zero? and should I use some of the "special lights - ada" that I have - I believe that has phosphate.)

My alga is doing REALLY well. I'm up to 10 hour total light time, and 6 hours of m/h for a burst. I'm doing 7 pumps of step 1, and 8 pumps of brighty k)

Co2 is at 2.5 bps and it is a light green on the drop checker. I added some rummie nose's today- they are doing just fine. So are my shrimp and ottos.

Things seem to be coming along nicely. Hope you enjoy the new pics!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

looking good. :thumbsup: those rocks are great


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

clwatkins10 said:


> looking good. :thumbsup: those rocks are great


Looking good man. I'd say give it four days and DEFINITELY bump that MH up to 7 hours. If you want to, you could now, then in a week bump it up to 8. Those flouro's by themselves won't do much of anything for your plants, they're really just there to fill in the corners csuae the Metal Halides are only designed to spread about 2.5 feet, and your tank is 3 feet. So 7 hours soon, if not today, then 8 in a week OR two, whichever you feel more comfortable with. In terms of the ferts you're dosing right now, everything but the phosphates look good. I'd say dose 2 pumps of LIGHTS everyday from now on with the same amount of Step 1 and Brighty K. I'd go with 20% every other day now, no more need for those big 50%ers lol. So just change out about 10 gallons every other day, then in two weeks lengthen it to every two days. 

Growth is looking great, you're really doing a good job, and you're being especially patient. Congrats! :thumbsup:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

things are starting to look really nice. 

whats your tap's phosphates? are they low, or are you plants using up a lot? either way you need to dose, but its good to know if your plants are productive, or if your tap is weird.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2008)

What is the ideal level for your phosphates?


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

rick4him said:


> What is the ideal level for your phosphates?


I'm guessing you didn't bother searching, but I keep mine between 1-2 ppm. Some research will yield values by others more reliable than myself. If mine dips below about .5 to 1 ppm, I start getting GSA on the glass.

Those pricey fertilizers get a little confusing when they have silly names like Super Brighty Bright Light Juice. I'll stick to my KH2PO4.:thumbsup:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I81B4U works the best...


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2008)

So I just checked my water and my phosphate's are at .50 and my nitrate's are at at 0. Man my plants are sucking stuff up. 

What should I dose more of? Step 1, or Special lights? If I am at 0 already and my phosphates are running low at this time of the day does that mean I don't have enough of that fert in my tank right now?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

1-2!?!? are you sure? mine are 0.05 (are you sure you didnt mean .1?) and the only place i get GSA is on the petite nana, but that happens in another tank too that has a p level of 2.

do you have any fertz made to replenish a single nutrient? like brighty K (well, with 0 nitrates and "low" phosphates you really shouldnt be adding K, its just an example).


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> 1-2!?!? are you sure? mine are 0.05 (are you sure you didnt mean .1?) and the only place i get GSA is on the petite nana, but that happens in another tank too that has a p level of 2.
> 
> do you have any fertz made to replenish a single nutrient? like brighty K (well, with 0 nitrates and "low" phosphates you really shouldnt be adding K, its just an example).


man I think you are running really low. Most people keep theirs between 1 and 2. U may need to up your phosphates.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

most people keep their phosphate between .5ppms and 2ppms. Nitrates should be kept between 5ppms and 10ppms. I've noticed stunting in plant growth with nitrate levels over 10ppms.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2008)

hello everyone. I hope you have all been doing well.

I wanted to give you all some pictures of the tank. Things are growing in nicely. I am getting some allege on the rocks, but from what I understand this is normal and will hopefully go away after a few months. (or at least not be as bad.)

How's it looking?


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

Have you tried bumping up the phosphate levels to get rid of the "allege" (algae)?


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2008)

eyebeatbadgers said:


> Have you tried bumping up the phosphate levels to get rid of the "allege" (algae)?


No I have not.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

I might _allege_ that increasing phosphate levels could help rid of the GSA on your rocks, as would raising your lighting a bit.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2008)

eyebeatbadgers said:


> I might _allege_ that increasing phosphate levels could help rid of the GSA on your rocks, as would raising your lighting a bit.


Well I have told by Jeff and Tom Barr that the aquisoil is supplying the phosphate's for my plants. In fact Step 1 doesn't contain any phosphate's , it doesn't come into step 2. I have also been told that the green on my rocks is normal for a while. do you not think so?

Also the lighting is where it needs to be for my tank.

I think things are filling in nicely.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

Algae is normal on rocks, just like sunrises are normal in the morning. I don't have green algae on my rocks. Diatoms are pretty normal too, most new tanks go through that stage. Those do just "go away" on their own. 

I did at one time have a GDA/GSA problem in my 10 gallon tank, so I doubled my phosphate level. GDA is gone, GSA is very very minimal. Just throwing an idea out, do a little research for yourself if you want the algae gone. 

The aqu*a*soil does contain phosphates, Jeff and Mr. Barr are right. Adding more won't hurt anything, except your wallet.:hihi:


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

rick4him said:


> . In fact Step 1 doesn't contain any phosphate's , it doesn't come into step 2.



If step 1 dosent have PO4 then that is why you have algae. Not every tank is the same, but you need to add some PO4 if you want to get rid of the GSA on the rocks. Do you have hard green spots on the glass as well?


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

I too had GSA until I upped my phosphate dosing...you don't have to live with it, so don't. It should be easy to rid. Also, rick, things are looking good (well, except for the algae, but hey, it happens), but you need to clean your lily pipes. Dirty lilies look worse than the green eheim intakes...almost.

cutting your photoperiod may help also, if you're not wanting to have to use non-ada proscribed methodology.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2008)

Yelp - I know I do need to clean them - I am just afraid it's going to be a mess.

@bigstick120 - Yes I do have green spots on the glass. I was thinking of dosing special lights, which does have phosphate, but just not not sure how much of it to dose. Will anything eat that alega? some have said rubbernose, or bristlenose.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

"Green Brighty Special LIGHTS 

In a layout with plants requiring much light such as Glossostigma and Riccia, the requirements for nutrients such as Nitrogen and Phosphorous are also high. Although these elements are produced from fish waste products, remnants of fish food and dead leaves of aquatic plants, they are quickly absorbed by such plants as Riccia and Glossostigma and are often in shortage. Green Brighty Special LIGHTS is a nutrient formula containing trace elements, Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium for healthy growth of plants.

Use only when *algae* is not rampant." 
http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_product_info&cPath=10_18&products_id=40

"Provide 1 push (1ml) for each 5 gallons (20 liters) daily. 
Adding too much Green Brighty Special LIGHTS (Nitrogen and Phosphorus) can cause *algae* proliferation. Do not use Green Brighty Special LIGHTS if you have an existing *algae* problem and temporarily discontinue use if excess *algae* appears right after dosing."
http://www.adgshop.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=103-011&Show=ExtInfo


"_alega?_"
*Algae Algae Algae*

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> "Green Brighty Special LIGHTS (500?l)
> 
> In a layout with plants requiring much light such as Glossostigma and Riccia, the requirements for nutrients such as Nitrogen and Phosphorous are also high. Although these elements are produced from fish waste products, remnants of fish food and dead leaves of aquatic plants, they are quickly absorbed by such plants as Riccia and Glossostigma and are often in shortage. Green Brighty Special LIGHTS is a nutrient formula containing trace elements, Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium for healthy growth of plants.
> 
> ...


All you did was copy that off the ADA website - do you not think I have read that. It says not to use when you have algae, which I have now. But people say I have it because I am not using Special Lights - which creates a paradox. Which is why I asked the question. Thanks though for your creative input.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I don't think your algae is the of the "rampant" sort. Might not be a bad idea to start dosing "Sp. Lights". Just pump it in when you dose your "K" & "Step 1".

Everything seems to be filling in nicely BTW!


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> I don't think your algae is the of the "rampant" sort. Might not be a bad idea to start dosing "Sp. Lights". Just pump it in when you dose your "K" & "Step 1".
> 
> Everything seems to be filling in nicely BTW!


Hey thanks man! Would you suggest doing the full 9 pumps that they suggest? It seems when I do that my nitrates go REALLY high. Do you think maybe 5 pumps, or would you do the whole 5?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I'd say start with the recommended dosing and observe things closely. Adjust up or down as needed...


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> I'd say start with the recommended dosing and observe things closely. Adjust up or down as needed...


Yah I have just been told that I shouldn't do the suggested dose until I have a fully grown in tank. Also how would I know if I need to add less? This shouldn't cause alega right?


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

rick4him said:


> Yah I have just been told that I shouldn't do the suggested dose until I have a fully grown in tank. Also how would I know if I need to add less? This shouldn't cause alega right?


Excess nutrients don't cause alega, allege, or algae.:thumbsup:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

algae is caused by imblance; so wether 1 nutrient (say, phosphates) is too high, or everything else is too little is a point of view. like a cup half empty or half full.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

yeah, rick. Hate to tell you, but I think you're going to have to think outside the realm of ADA dogma and do a bit of trial and error dosing; maybe an extra pump here or fewer squirts there...you have to remember that you're dealing with a living system here, and it just doesn't stand to reason that all tanks (even if you are using the same components in each) will thrive by following a rigid schedule. Life isn't like that, it's not textbook, and I'd argue this point with anyone. I would suspect, also, that Jeff-nor any other die-hard, _intelligent_ ADA devotee-wouldn't be so naive to suggest this was the case. I mean, most of us are familiar with the sometimes extreme difference between bags of aquasoil, and this one factor alone would greatly influence the maturation rate of a tank. Use your brain, and good things will happen.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> algae is caused by imblance; so wether 1 nutrient (say, phosphates) is too high, or everything else is too little is a point of view. like a cup half empty or half full.


Nutrients being in shortage is not a point of view, it's just a lacking of a nutrient. If the plant's growth is limited by nitrogen levels, you'll get algae, because there was not enough nitrogen available. If the OP doubled his phosphate level, or tripled it, there would be no algae unless it spurred the growth of the plants, and made another nutrient deficient. If I went to my tank and increased the ppm of Phosphate to 4 or 5 ppm, the "ratio" of fertilizers would be off, but the because there is plenty of nitrogen, potassium, and carbon available, no algae would form. Ideally, you want the limiting factor of plant growth to be light, which is why I recommended moving the light fixture up a bit for a while until the OP gets things down pat.:thumbsup:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thats not how i meant it. i meant, if your N is 5, your tank can do fine; if your N is 10, your tank can do fine. but you will need different levels of your other nutrients, so the plants have a good proportion of availablitly of each.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2008)

Here are some new pictures - things are coming along very nicely.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Looks fantastic I love it!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow, that looks great


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

just read this whole thread, looks great!!!


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I have a small issue with bba, but everything else is going well. Thanks so much!


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Amazing tank :thumbsup:


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

You can try spot treating the BBA with H2O2.

Tank looks good.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

great rock formation. can't wait to see it filled in.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

Well here are some of the newest pictures - it is filling in REAL nice. Almost all complete. 

My allege is under control - and things are looking nice. I am really happy with how this tank is turning out.

Hope you enjoy!


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## scherzo (Jul 22, 2007)

wow ..looks great.. great work!


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Ahh, I'm in love with this tank.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

mizu-chan said:


> Ahh, I'm in love with this tank.


ha - ha thanks!

If you click on the link below you can my website where I kept up another picture journal. It's had some pretty amazing growth!


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## Lorenmws (Jul 27, 2008)

That is exactly what I what to do with my 40 breeder. Beautiful tank, I'm Jealous.

Loren


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks so much for all the great feedback. I'm very happy with how it is turning out.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Awesome.

I saw that you got those rocks from a rockyard. Remember what they were called? Or do you have any extras? 

Thanks.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

Actually I do have some extra - I got them from a place that had all sorts of rocks, including rare ones. 

I have about 2 bags full of these rocks. I'd be glad to let some go.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Rare rocks? Got a name for these?


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

gmccreedy said:


> Rare rocks? Got a name for these?


Sorry I do not. But they are nice - I like them alot. 

These are the same rocks that Jeff over at ADG uses in his tanks.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

So how are they "rare"?


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

gmccreedy said:


> So how are they "rare"?


Well - do you have any? 

ha,ha


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

rick4him said:


> Well - do you have any?
> 
> ha,ha


Nope, but if ADG is selling it, I can sure guess that a good amount of people do! 

I get my own rocks the from the woods.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

gmccreedy said:


> Nope, but if ADG is selling it, I can sure guess that a good amount of people do!
> 
> I get my own rocks the from the woods.


That's cool - to each his own. I prefer to buy mine from a place that sells, as I said before, all sorts of rare rocks!


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

i like my steaks rare not my rocks


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## pleco4me (Apr 10, 2007)

Hi rick4him,

Your tank is looking quite nice. The HC has filled out well, as has the hair grass.

When you next scape though, I think you should slope the substrate more, especially with the iwagumi type of layout. The current layout of yours is quite flat, and i think that a slope would add a bit of character to the layout. 

But thats just my opinion :wink:


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

pleco4me said:


> Hi rick4him,
> 
> Your tank is looking quite nice. The HC has filled out well, as has the hair grass.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks- maybe I'll take a picture from the side - there actually is a really big slop in the tank - I just think that from the angels of the pictures you can't tell very well - thanks for the feedback - it has taken a while - but it is starting to look nice. Thanks again.


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## rick4him (Mar 18, 2010)

Just thought I'd let everyone know the tank is doing GREAT! I need to get some updated pictures posted asap!


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Tanks looks fantastic, great growth on the HC. I have HC evny.  Post some more pics!


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## FDNY911 (Dec 6, 2009)

Nice job man ...


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