# Been having this problem for awhile



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Bump


----------



## keymastr (May 25, 2015)

What fertilizers are you using and how much/often? If the tank is less than 6 months old it could just be diatoms. They are brown and settle on plants but are not really attached so they can easily be cleaned off with just a wave of your hand near them. That is normal new tank syndrome and will go away on it's own normally. 

You may need more circulation to get them floating where the filter can suck them up.


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

keymastr said:


> What fertilizers are you using and how much/often? If the tank is less than 6 months old it could just be diatoms. They are brown and settle on plants but are not really attached so they can easily be cleaned off with just a wave of your hand near them. That is normal new tank syndrome and will go away on it's own normally.
> 
> You may need more circulation to get them floating where the filter can suck them up.


 
Had the tank at or about 6 months or so now. I had diatoms before but it cleared all up from what I can see. Would it happen to come back if its on my bio filter or filter media? I have dry ferts but haven't started to use them yet. I am trying to finish off my api liquid co2, api liquid plant food, and excel. I dose the plant food once after a water change then I use excel about every 2 days. then co2 every other day. I have been using less and less for the last 2 or so weeks just to see if it would slow down or stop. I have planted some more plants today to try and help balance everything out. Should I get a powerhead to throw in the back to keep the plants moving around? Even if it is a 29g tank? Any other suggestions to help or is it just all a waiting game and keep on my weekly water changes?


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Here's some photos with the new plants put in, a water change, and some cleaning done.


----------



## Jeroen (Jan 12, 2016)

I think if you're prepared to spend some money a co2 kit would be more helpful. 
A wavemaker in a tank this size wouldn't do much good i don't think..

a diy co2 kit doesn't have to be expensive or labour intensive, just can't run it without the lights being on.


----------



## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Tetra makes a number of good anti algae products, even a preventative tablet.....
I'd do that before doing the DIY CO2... unless you are perfectly consistent, you WILL grow hair algae.


----------



## keymastr (May 25, 2015)

Start using the dry ferts. With no co2 then just do one dose a week of the EI formula. That means the full daily dose but just once a week instead of 3 times a week. Alternate days for macros and micros. If you have further dosing questions ask Nilocg on this forum. 

If it is diatoms then increase in circulation and filtration will help along with time. If it is algae then stopping your ferts is a bad idea. Algae does not grow because of too much fertilizer, it grows because of an imbalance in fertilizers and too much light. Get the fertilizers the plants are lacking and it will no longer be too much light, plants will grow and algae will slow down or die.

Plants need all the fertilizers in order to grow. If just one of those nutrients is lacking the plants cannot grow no matter how much of the others they have available. However, algae only need one fertilizer and light in order to grow. They do not care if there is an imbalance, they will use any source of nutrient. The key to not having algae is to have plenty of all the nutrients that plants need to grow. With EI you dose more than the plants can use of all nutrients ensuring they never run out of food. A 50% water change each week resets the nutrient level in the tank so there is no excess buildup.

You also should dose the excel every day. It does not last in the tank for more than a few hours so it needs to be dosed frequently.


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

I want to do co2 but I really don't have the funds to start on that side of tracks...and I've heard nightmares with diy co2 when not keeping up with it and the levels never being the same day in and day out...maybe down the road I will when I have a larger tank and more funds to put in..thanks for the advice

Honestly I don't really feel like I'm in that bad of a situation to need algae control products as of now..thanks for the advice



keymastr said:


> Start using the dry ferts. With no co2 then just do one dose a week of the EI formula. That means the full daily dose but just once a week instead of 3 times a week. Alternate days for macros and micros. If you have further dosing questions ask Nilocg on this forum.
> 
> If it is diatoms then increase in circulation and filtration will help along with time. If it is algae then stopping your ferts is a bad idea. Algae does not grow because of too much fertilizer, it grows because of an imbalance in fertilizers and too much light. Get the fertilizers the plants are lacking and it will no longer be too much light, plants will grow and algae will slow down or die.
> 
> ...



When I first bought dry ferts from Nilocg he told me the same thing for dosing lol..but awesome thank you I'll definitely start going back on that rotation of dosing after my water change of the week...it's simply enough I just don't want to much ferts and start growing other types of algae...but maybe I have enough now where there won't be such an excessive amount...I'm trying to start a carpet with s reps..I got a bunch of little baby plants so I know that's going to take months before it really starts filling in


----------



## essabee (Oct 7, 2006)

I think you are a little lazy with water changes - judging from the picture of your filter intake. I also suspect that the water movement in your tank has a lot of dead spots.

My suggestion is that you move the intake to one of the rear corner. Re-position the return from the filter to the same corner as the intake but facing the opposite rear corner (if you are using a spray bar position it vertically facing the opposite rear corner) - This will set up a circular water motion in the tank. Do at least 30% water change a month.

Given a little time to the suggested changes and your problem will solve itself.


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

essabee said:


> I think you are a little lazy with water changes - judging from the picture of your filter intake. I also suspect that the water movement in your tank has a lot of dead spots.
> 
> My suggestion is that you move the intake to one of the rear corner. Re-position the return from the filter to the same corner as the intake but facing the opposite rear corner (if you are using a spray bar position it vertically facing the opposite rear corner) - This will set up a circular water motion in the tank. Do at least 30% water change a month.
> 
> Given a little time to the suggested changes and your problem will solve itself.


Excuse me?? "Lazy" I do water changes every week..it just so happen when I took those pictures I was At the end of my second week and I wasn't able to do a water change during the first week..oh wait I'm sorry I'm a busy full time student and worker with priorities and that my fish tank is just a hobby to relax and do for fun..If you were smart enough or knew the difference you would notice that I have a HOB..smooth move there guy... Keep your negative comments to yourself thank you


----------



## Dannyul (Jun 3, 2013)

Hello, 

It's always disappointing when someone gets their tank and plants covered in that nuisance algae but there are ways to minimise the chances of developing a major outbreak. Although we cannot completely eliminate the chance of algae, we can control it. 

I would keep up with your water changes weekly - do 50% water changes. 

I think that the major culprit you have that is causing the issue is *the lack of CO2* available for the plants. If you could dose liquid CO2 every day then that will definitely have a positive impact. Liquid CO2 provides a limited source of carbon for your plants (nowhere near as good as injecting CO2 but it's a start!) and is also a good algaecide when used correctly. 

As well as this, making sure your filter is clean on a regular basis - do monthly maintenance checks on your filter. So, rinse out your filter media and pads (in old tank water!) and put back in. This will reduce the build up of organic waste and toxins. 

I do hope this helps? But all in all, if you can introduce CO2 then that would help. 

Ta,
Dan


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Dannyul said:


> Hello,
> 
> It's always disappointing when someone gets their tank and plants covered in that nuisance algae but there are ways to minimise the chances of developing a major outbreak. Although we cannot completely eliminate the chance of algae, we can control it.
> 
> ...



Thanks Dan for your input.. Honestly with what you said I know we can't 100% kill it off and there's always that risk of an outbreak..alright sounds good with keeping up on the weekly 50% water changes..ya I figured it really all comes down to co2..I wish I could invest more money and get a co2 but sadly other bills come first before the tank..thanks for your input I'll keep up with the liquid co2..I actually have a friend sending me 50 co2 tabs he got from China and says it's worth it and saves more in the long run with a tab a day..so I'll see if those work and if so I'll spend the $8 for 100 tabs lol...going back to cleaning I usually ever 2 weeks or when needed clean out the pad and media from my HOB..most the time I'm cleaning out the propeller since it's filled up with brown..but never clean out any of my stuff with old tank water..I'll have to start doing that..again thanks for the input


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Plants are showing toxicity symptoms from excess traces. Stop dosing micros. Do a 200% WC. Dose traces only when plants show signs they need fertz. Macros should be dosed, however.


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Plants are showing toxicity symptoms from excess traces. Stop dosing micros. Do a 200% WC. Dose traces only when plants show signs they need fertz. Macros should be dosed, however.


Sorry to say it's not toxicity..I know because I am able to sweep the plants with my hands and all the algae Falls and flys around the tank..I haven't been dosing EI for some time now..I actually did a water change today and started my EI regiment again...but I'm looking into getting a wave maker or power head what ever to have more circulation for the tank to see if that helps me out more


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

patfat said:


> Sorry to say it's not toxicity..I know because I am able to sweep the plants with my hands and all the algae Falls and flys around the tank..I haven't been dosing EI for some time now..I actually did a water change today and started my EI regiment again...but I'm looking into getting a wave maker or power head what ever to have more circulation for the tank to see if that helps me out more


I'm not referring to the algae. There's no way that plants can grow like that and not be suffering from a toxicity.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Healthy plants stave off algae. Trace toxicity, at the very least, stunts plants. Stunted plants get algae.


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> patfat said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to say it's not toxicity..I know because I am able to sweep the plants with my hands and all the algae Falls and flys around the tank..I haven't been dosing EI for some time now..I actually did a water change today and started my EI regiment again...but I'm looking into getting a wave maker or power head what ever to have more circulation for the tank to see if that helps me out more
> ...





burr740 said:


> Healthy plants stave off algae. Trace toxicity, at the very least, stunts plants. Stunted plants get algae.



Alright...well I'll hear you out and go with your idea... if it's a toxicity that the both of you are suggesting what shall I do...keep in mind I stop EI dosing awhile back and I just started today after a water change..I don't have co2 and can't afford it..what other options do you all suggest??


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

I am following this but only dosing one time a week for everything since I don't feel I have enough plants to do the recommend dosing..other thoughts or ideas? Should I still invest in a wave maker to mix every thing around in the tank?


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

patfat said:


> Alright...well I'll hear you out and go with your idea... if it's a toxicity that the both of you are suggesting what shall I do...keep in mind I stop EI dosing awhile back and I just started today after a water change..I don't have co2 and can't afford it..what other options do you all suggest??


Back to back 80% water changes, then no micro dosing for a week or so. You will see an immediate improvement if that is the problem. If not then you can move on to something else.


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

patfat said:


> I am following this but only dosing one time a week for everything since I don't feel I have enough plants to do the recommend dosing..other thoughts or ideas? Should I still invest in a wave maker to mix every thing around in the tank?


I killed half of my RCS and almost all of my CBS dosing less than half the charts' suggested level of micros. FYI: a single suggested EI dose of micros is still 10-100+ times more concentrated than a single suggested Seachem Flourish dose.

Also, why bother dosing if there aren't much plants to use the fertz?


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

burr740 said:


> patfat said:
> 
> 
> > Alright...well I'll hear you out and go with your idea... if it's a toxicity that the both of you are suggesting what shall I do...keep in mind I stop EI dosing awhile back and I just started today after a water change..I don't have co2 and can't afford it..what other options do you all suggest??
> ...


So your saying next week Sunday and Monday 80% water change then see how it goes from there??


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I mean do 80% water change two days in a row. Then, after doing that, no micros for a week or two. Most people see a significant improvement in just a few days if toxicity is the problem.


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> patfat said:
> 
> 
> > I am following this but only dosing one time a week for everything since I don't feel I have enough plants to do the recommend dosing..other thoughts or ideas? Should I still invest in a wave maker to mix every thing around in the tank?
> ...



Well on both sides of the tank by at mini where it looks empty is going to be filled by S. Repens..I have like 6 small stems on each side where I plan to cut and bunch up both those areas..I have all the back filled with different stem plants..the moss on the drift wood, on the rocks, and also on both of the backs of the spongebob decorations..which I'm wanting it all to grow out..at least all along the drift wood and also on the backs to cover up the decorations as a mold and keep the openings free.. So that's why I'm dosing..I guess you can say I have a good amount of plants in there then..


----------



## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

I would consider that lightly planted due to the low plant mass, definitely not something you can dose so much with. Anyway, what's important is that you look at the health of the plants, which don't look healthy, then determine what to do about it.


----------



## Straight shooter (Nov 26, 2015)

EI is too much fertilizer for this tank. It's a low tech with some API liquid CO2 as an additional carbon source. Fish food alone will likely provide most of the nutrients the plants need. Only slight topping up of nutrients may be needed, particularly K and Fe. 

50% water changes are too big for this tank, unless the OP absolutely has to in managing nitrate build up etc. Low techs don't like big water changes and they should be avoided for the most part. 20-30% weekly is the most I would ever do on a healthy tank. Combine with gravel vac at every water change. 

I think everyone who posted earlier really lead the OP off course. Complete over complication of a simple problem. 

Toxicity? You've got to be kidding. 
Needs CO2 injection? Why????? This would only complicate things and drive the OP to insanity. 
Clean bio media monthly? Absolutely no need. Leave it alone. Only touch it 2-3x per year. 
The OP is lazy? You should be ashamed of yourself Essabee. Don't be arrogant. Stereotyping people with algae problems as lazy is just rude.


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Straight shooter said:


> EI is too much fertilizer for this tank. It's a low tech with some API liquid CO2 as an additional carbon source. Fish food alone will likely provide most of the nutrients the plants need. Only slight topping up of nutrients may be needed, particularly K and Fe.
> 
> 50% water changes are too big for this tank, unless the OP absolutely has to in managing nitrate build up etc. Low techs don't like big water changes and they should be avoided for the most part. 20-30% weekly is the most I would ever do on a healthy tank. Combine with gravel vac at every water change.
> 
> ...



So now end the end your saying that all I should try is just doing 20-30% water change with gravel vac"which I gravel vac every time"...clean filter when needed"which I wash it clean blue then by the next week of water change its already dark dirt brown" ..leave bio wheel alone"which I do"..and add k an fr if needed..and that's it and my tank should grow and flourish better then adding all that I was to it


----------



## Leeatl (Aug 8, 2015)

+1 To StraightShooter.......read and process the advice on the net , but ultimately you have to pay close attention to your tank and use the info from the net to make any changes if and when needed for your situation . Remember , your tank is not exactly like anyone else's....lol


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Leeatl said:


> +1 To StraightShooter.......read and process the advice on the net , but ultimately you have to pay close attention to your tank and use the info from the net to make any changes if and when needed for your situation . Remember , your tank is not exactly like anyone else's....lol



True very true..well I'll take what I can and go from there then


----------



## Straight shooter (Nov 26, 2015)

In terms of water changes, you really need to test nitrates just before a scheduled change to see how much they're building. That'll give you a rough idea of the size of the water change needed, whether it should be weekly/bi-weekly etc. If it's more than 30% per week you need to add more plants. Floating plants are the best nutrient absorbers, second is stem plants..


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

To highlight some stuff that others have said and provide my opinions...

you definitely do not need to be dosing full EI so don't do that lol. Dose like 1/4 - 1/3 EI levels of macros only. like others have said micros are likely not needed unless you see deficiencies (if all is in check you will see good growth then eventually you will know when they need it). based on your plant mass / how they're growing even this may be more than you need but shouldn't cause you more harm.

I agree that your plants are suffering from a toxicity - they are growing weirdy and don't look good - I have also personally experienced this and can say that when I stopped dosing CSM+B altogether things improved rather quickly

I disagree with the claim that low techs do not like large water changes. I do like 60-70% water changes on my low tech tank every other week and barely ever dose it. It is well established and does great. It has mostly shrimp (tons of RCS) and a handful of old cory cats so the bioload is low. I NEVER vacuum the substrate on this tank either. The plants do a great job at keeping things stable.

I agree with burr that you should do a handful of HEAVY water changes (70% plus) to reset your water conditions and get out excess nutrients/toxins

I agree that floating plants will help you a LOT (this is why my low tech is so successful). I use water sprite and pennywort in mine.

Keep in mind that low tech is supposed to be EASY. don't complicate things by dosing a ton of ferts and worrying about all kinds of stuff. I also think that people who fail at low tech have poor plant selection. When I do low tech I make sure all my plants are super easy and never run into problems (fast growers like water sprite, pennywort, easy stuff like moss, crypts, etc). Plants that suffer when they are not under ideal conditions IMO are bad choices for low tech because they cause problems and start to die. I feel that at least a few species that you have in there do not succeed as well in lower tech setups. Also as far as I know the stingray light is LOW lighting so these kinds of plants that need a bit more power may never do well.

do NOT listen to the guys who told you CO2 will help out... your setup would not make much use of a CO2 setup... CO2 doesn't magically fix problems like everyone believes. Also do not fall into the myth that products like excel are as effective as pressurized CO2 (they are not even close - many people do not believe this). While a legit CO2 setup will 'help' it's not worth it given how low light of a setup you are running

'anti-algae' products are also a waste of money. kill the algae then it comes right back... need to find the root cause and fix that

IMO here is the CORE of your problem:

Finnex stingray provides low amounts of light. many of the plants you chose to stock this tank with (ludwigia? rotala? limnophila? not positive exactly what they are) are not going to do so hot unless they have enough light. I see these types of plants flourish in my high tech tank but in a low tech environment they are anything but healthy. This coupled with what looks like micro toxicity is why you are getting strange, unhealthy growth out of these plants. Unhealthy / slowly dying plants in your tank are when algae thrives. you need some heavy hitters in there to give you a healthy plant mass. not only do you have very little plant mass but the plant mass you do have is struggling badly. This is a major problem... this is why I suggest turning to plants like water sprite or something that are super easy to grow and do a good job at keeping algae at bay. re-think your plant selection, clean things up, see how the tank does. IMO continuing to fail to grow those types of plants under your setup is only going to continue to give you issues.


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

The worst of my fears!!!!! The toxicity has gotten worse!! My Ar and repens are getting the most hurt!! Added more stem plants, I added frogbit, I even have 25 to 30 more repen stems coming in...I'm gonna do another water change tomorrow just to see if I can get more fresh water in the tank...? This sucks


----------



## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Also I forgot to add I'm thinking of adding a 2 light such as this

http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Aquarium-Lighting-Beamswork-Tropical-Fish-p/56375.htm

Or another stingray light...any thoughts?



klibs said:


> what do you think?


----------

