# 24" Tek T-5 Light Fixture Review (Future of planted tank lighting)



## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

I really like mine...and can't wait till I get my new setup going so that I can use it LOL.

Which bulbs did you end up getting? the GE 6500 Starcoats or the ATI's?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Wow! Slick suspended fixture, rimless/frameless clear glass. You've absolutely got to look I want! Great stuff!

Pls provide updates on how it works out. Love the look...


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> Which bulbs did you end up getting? the GE 6500 Starcoats or the ATI's?


The ATI's. From what I have been reading the GE 6500 are a bit yellow, but they are a lot cheaper. The color on the ATI's are perfect.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

$363 for 96 watts of light? OUCH!!!!! One MH pendant would have been a LOT cheaper.


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

the 24" fixture is quite a lot..fortunately it isn't that much more money for a 3ft and 4ft. my 3ft fixture with the starcoats and hanging setup ran me $315 shipped.

I'll see about getting comparison photos of: Starcoat, GE9325's, 5000K philips?, 6700K philips, and 10,000K


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

How's the fan noise on those?


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

There are no fans. Its vented through slots on the top.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Cool! And Tony's mentioning GE9325's. Are those available in T5's?


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

Nope. I was talking about comparing to PC's. T5HO's are limited in bulb choice..but that is fine if they are the color you want


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

So what's the verdict? Do you like the color? Do the plants?


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## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

ADA tank!
Since you spent big money on the tank, it only seams adequate that you spent big money on the lighting. :tongue:


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

iunknown,

I'm wondering how did you hang or what did you use to hang your lights?

thx
Raymond


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I just ordered a 4' black version actually made for horticulture. Same light, except both triad ballasts are wired to one on/off with only one power cord. It comes with four 6500K lamps for $269.00 shipping included. I don't think I'll ever turn off one of the banks on a 24" tall 90 gallon. Reef geek sells the same aquarium unit in black or silver which has the two on/offs (and two power cords) with two lamps included and after you buy two more GEs and add in their $15 shipping, it totals out about $18.00 more at $288.00. But if you get ATI lamps I think thats about another $40 too.

Also, I talked to Sunlight supply and a fellow there said they are discontinuing the silver model and going to stay with the powder coat black, so if you want a silver (which is only available in the "aquarium" version), better get it now. I didn't know any of this when I ordered the fixture online, or I probably would have ordered the aquarium syle because I prefered the silver. I got it from this source, which I first heard on this forum. http://www.4hydroponics.com/clone/cloneLighting2.asp?ItemNo=tekLt

BTW, beautiful amano tank there!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I love E. annulatus! :fish: 

Nice light... kinda expensive, but I agree it looks good. roud:


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> "I'm wondering how did you hang or what did you use to hang your lights?"


I just used the hanging kit that is available. It sticks into the ceiling. The next project is to make a Amano style hanging pendant bar. I'll keep a journal so others can follow.



> "So what's the verdict? Do you like the color? Do the plants? Cool! And Tony's mentioning GE9325's. Are those available in T5's?"


So far so good, too early to tell. There are bulbs that give out a red color, if that is what you are looking for. I'm really happy with the color of the ATI bulbs though.


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

I've been thinking about getting something like that (or similar but on legs over the tank) but have always wondered: If you sit lower down than the level of the lights, do they blind you when you watch the tank?

This is the only thing that has kept me from going open top...


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

I guess it depends on the fixture. On fixtures that throw light outside of the tanks there are usually blinds to keep it from being a problem. The Tek fixture doesn't cast light outside of the tank to were it would be a problem.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/sho...perpage=20&highlight=ocean light&pagenumber=2


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Im wondering what are the benefits of running T-5 set up like this? Are the bulbs cheaper to replace?


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

The T5s, similar to the CFs (CFs are just bent T5s if I understand correctly), provide more light in a smaller package...

I think it was Rex who said that you never need to replace CFs until they died. I'd assume it's the same with T5s?


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> The big plus about T5's is that each bulb can have it's own special reflector which directs more light down into the tank. These special reflector's are suppose to increase the output down into the tank by more than 300% and the company that has the best reflector is Sunlight Supply.


It's all about getting more light into the tank. CF's need to be replaced every 6 months (depending on how you design your system), T5's I think last a year. Lots of threads over at reef central,
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...&perpage=25&highlight=t5 for you&pagenumber=2


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

Here's a thread re CFs and length of life with comments by Rex and Tom Barr...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10291&highlight=lights


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

The big hoopla about T5's is that you get (for practical purposes) get a linear PC. This means that you can design REALLY efficient reflectors...more so than even the AHSupply reflectors...so "more light for your watt".


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

IUnknown said:


> It's all about getting more light into the tank. CF's need to be replaced every 6 months (depending on how you design your system), T5's I think last a year. Lots of threads over at reef central,
> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...&perpage=25&highlight=t5 for you&pagenumber=2



For reef tanks I would agree with that. But not for plant tanks.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

The hydroponics fellow I ordered my Tek light from said he had heard Sylvania was designing/testng some new T5 lamps. I'm hoping in the not too distant future there will be quite a few more options on T5 lamps re: color temp other than the 6500Ks. Maybe some 9325K?? Eums, how about some more news on the 10,000K lamp you bought.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> For reef tanks I would agree with that. But not for plant tanks.


Depends on how you design your tank. If you don't mind that after six months the momentum of the tank is going to change and the plants are going to grow different then stick with the bulbs.

I don't agree that you should run the bulbs until they go out. When I have a tank setup for 4 wpg, I don't want it running at 2wpg. But I've never replaced CF bulbs, more because it wasn't worth it money wise. I believe that my glosso grew in differently under new and old bulbs. The new bulbs made the growth flat against the substrate. With T5's I might replace them after a year.

This is just one of those topics that everyone has their personal opinion. Maybe I don't have enough experience to give the best advice. Another one I've never agreed with is the substrate heating cables. I would never spend the money on them, but I do think they help. It just doesn't make sense that it would apply to horticulture but not to aquatic plants.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

IUnknown said:


> ... (bulb color...) So far so good, too early to tell... I'm really happy with the color of the ATI bulbs though.


OK, fair comment. Thanks. More info for later.

But I'm looking at a lighting decision fairly soon. What do the ATI's look like to the eye? Red, green, bright, white? Any info at all is appreciated. Thanks.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Received my 4x54 watt Tek light today! These are indeed really nice fixtures. It was super well protected by foam inside the shipping box. The horticulture version which I bought also has two banks of on/off switches, both wired into one wall plug in. So each ballast has its own on/off. You could set a timer and have one bank come on, then manually turn on the second pair of tubes a little later. Or I could quite easily wire in a second cord. Another thing I liked was that one ballast controls the outer two lamps and the other controls the two inner lamps, which would help mimic the dawn dusk effect. This unit is very,very bright and high quality. Sunlight Supply includes a chain for hanging, but I may go with the add-on cable hangers or the aquarium brackets. I totally agree T5 fixtures like this are the future for planted aquarium lighting. Made in the USA in Vancouver, WA (near Portland, OR) Three thumbs way up! roud: 
BTW, The GE Starcoats 6500K didn't look yellow at all on first glance. But I didn't have my sunglasses on. They looked quite white.


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

I have the starcoats...and very very preliminary experience tells me that if anything, they are slighly blue...then again I tested over a tank with GE9325s LOL

I do have the yellow 5000K and some green 6700K's and the starcoats are neither that green nor that yellow..that much I can say. ..I really need to get my camera back from my boss so that I can take pictures LOL.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey Tony, do you have any Cabomba under those Starcoats? Take a look at this thread if you get a chance. I've got to buy some new lights soon and this looks REAL promising. But I'm a bit curious about the possibility of color affecting internode length on some stem plant (near red vs. far red - again, check the thread). So if you've got any Cabomba under those Starcoats, I'd love to know about the internode lengths. Thanks.Betowess

PS - Betowess, I'm jealous, but glad for you! roud:


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

T5 Brands,
The brands for self ballasted t5's :helios, current USA, then for tubes there's GE, ATI, then there's the one I picked up from my LFS , it's called 'Terra Grow HO T5' is that just a local brand? since I can't really find much information on it, other than the tubes saying 6500K 39 watts HO, and my plants seem to like the lighting increase witht these new t5's and a reflector

thx
Raymond


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> What do the ATI's look like to the eye? Red, green, bright, white? Any info at all is appreciated.


Scolley,
I'd say they are bright white. The thing I like about the fixture is that you can tell it is well made, not some cheap quality type product from China. Like the geissman fixtures, it cracks like a car cooling down, as the fixture cools. They look like a CF 10000 K bulb, but are rated at 6500K so hopefully have the 6500K growth. I never liked the 6500K CF bulbs that I used because they were always to green or yellow.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I would agree with Gomer on the starcoats. When I wrote about their color (to the human eye) I almost wrote in "bluish white" or cool white. I'm a photog by trade, and we sometimes say stuff like "cool" a pic down by adding some blue. But who knows what the starcoats look like after 100 hours. I'm betting they will be a crisp full spectrum white. PS...Scolley, you'll love the TEK if you get one. It rocks ...very solid. :icon_cool I believe Sunlight Supply makes great MH too. 
bob


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

OK. Here's another question... What about width?

IUnknown got 24". Got to on a 24" tank.

But Bob got a 48" light over what I assume is a 48" tank. Would you have a bit less light spilling out of the right or left sides if you got a 36" light (with a few more bulbs)? Or is it a none issue?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

IMO, the 75 Gallon will want the 48 inch. Not sure on spill yet, but if you kept it low it would help plus put more lumens in the tank. However, I believe I want it to be about 4 to 6 inches above the rim. If spill is an issue, it would be quite easy to screw in some DIY metal blinders (or some other black or silver material) on this light. Its made of a heavy guage steel. But it might look a bit Star Wars if you add the wings. :icon_roll bob


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

IUnknown said:


> I just used the hanging kit that is available.


Are you talking about the one that cost extra, like this one? Or are you talking about something that actually came with the kit?

Whatever you got, I love the look of the setup in your pics.


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

For my 55 I placed a 2x54 so 48". Wish I bought a 4x54 now. 

Light spilling into the room is minimal. Of course I'm not sitting right next to or under the tank. With the fixture approx. 4" to 5" from the top.

The best is just running the lamp up the cable during water changes. Just moving it up allows plenty of access for cleanup.

IUnknown thanks for the local vendor referance. I may get the 4x54 soon If I can convince the boss.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Scolley, 
Yeah, I'm using the grip lock system.



> If spill is an issue, it would be quite easy to screw in some DIY metal blinders (or some other black or silver material) on this light.


Thats a good idea. I would just put metal shields on the left and right where the acrylic shield would go, and put the acrylic shield in the middle were you want the light. I don't know how it would look over the tank. I bought the Tek because it was one of the few fixtures that was 13" wide (24" long) and had all the options I was looking for.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

So what about wattage then? I keep reading about the supposed efficiency of T5's, coupled with the apparent tremendous ability to reflect/redirect their light due to the low bulb diameter.

Does that mean the normal wattage/gallon rules of thumb have to be modified? And if so, would anyone care to speculate on specifics?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I'm guessing the 54 watt Tek T5s are just a little bit brighter than AH Supply PC 55 watt. The only increased efficiency is because the reflector wraps around one linear tube (less restrike?) instead of the wider PC two tube... they both use faceted MIRO reflector material. But it gets crazy with the watt per gallon rule because of the variety of reflector design, or lack of design. The AH are supposedly 60% brighter than other PCs, (Coralife or Perfecto... who knows) because of the faceted or parabolic reflector. But I think many people are pretty happy with 4 x 54 watt of AH Supply over 75 gallons so I imagine 4x54 of Tek would be great. On the otherhand, I think one of our moderators has 6x54 watt over a 75 gallon, right? Retina burners! I like my one AH 55 over my 26 bow, though a little more wouldn't hurt. Scolley, you could get the six and not use them all the time... I thought of doing that on the 90, but I'll cross that bridge only if I have too. Just more dough to lay out. bob


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

Gomer said:


> The big hoopla about T5's is that you get (for practical purposes) get a linear PC. This means that you can design REALLY efficient reflectors...more so than even the AHSupply reflectors...so "more light for your watt".


Efficient light distribution is what were after right? By the nature of the T5 being linear, distribution of heat and light should both benifit the planted tank.
The question of how much is still up to you. How much do you want to prune?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

kzr750r1 said:


> The best is just running the lamp up the cable during water changes. Just moving it up allows plenty of access for cleanup.


How easy it it to "run up the lights with this grip lock system. I've never seen one in person, but it sounds right on. Thanks, bob


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Just some comments regarding the GE Starcoats...

It's been 10 months since I added two of them to my tank (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7970).

To me, they look slightly yellow/greenish. It is possible that they were whiter in the beginning (I guess I could switch an old with a new one and see), but I recently added one of the Phillips Daylight bulbs (T8) that the Depot started to carry, and those look white as white can be, much whiter than the Starcoats (without having a blue/purple tinge like the 10000K Helios I am running).

If there was a decent reflector for T8 bulbs, those Phillips Daylight for like $3 would be an awesome choice for a budget setup. I am going to play around with white PVC pipes and see if those would make cheap but working reflectors.


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

Betowess said:


> How easy it it to "run up the lights with this grip lock system. I've never seen one in person, but it sounds right on. Thanks, bob


Simple in that the cable lock is spring loaded attached to the fixture. Just pulling the excess cable will not allow the fixture to drop back unless the lock is depressed. I tend to help it along by lifting the fixture one side at a time while retriving the desiered cable length till it's out of the way.

One of the reefer stores on the east bay has them over their tanks. A couple of eight or six bulb fixtures suspended over a wide shallow open top tank is impressive.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> If there was a decent reflector for T8 bulbs, those Phillips Daylight for like $3 would be an awesome choice for a budget setup. I am going to play around with white PVC pipes and see if those would make cheap but working reflectors.


Eureka! Wasserpest, you got me thinking. Couldn't one use two AH Supply PC reflectors (Miro finish) as its about 4" across ... wide enough for PCs. Unfortunately they are about $18.00 per 24", I believe. And I was wondering why no-one uses T8s... thats the lighting throughout my garage... Maybe someone could find some 4' or uncut Miro reflector material. Then we are talking about a seriously efficient and low cost lighting option, save for the cost of the reflector, which is one of the most important components. Just an idea. bob


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

> Does that mean the normal wattage/gallon rules of thumb have to be modified? And if so, would anyone care to speculate on specifics?


I need to look into that. I thought I read on reef central what the wattage was equivalent to on the T5 bulbs(like 24W T5's=36W PC?). I've had to turn off two of the bulbs because the momentum of the tank was out of control. With just two of the 24W bulbs its doing fine.


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

I plan on using my Tek light (3ft) on dual timers. 10-12hr total with only 4hrs of it with all 4 lights on. Perhaps you may want to try that. Also, you can rais your lights a little if you want. I have mine about 10" up and there is plenty of light  (I have my 29g under it until I move my 40g there LOL)


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## sawallace (Jan 24, 2005)

IUnknown, do you have a pic that more clearly shows the shape of the reflectors? Does each bulb have a seperate reflector? I'm planning on building a fixture similar to yours, and I need some ideas.

Thank you!


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

each bulb has a separate parabalic reflector


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Reef geek.com sells the individual T5 reflectors. The 48 inch reflector for one T5 is about $21 clams. The triad ballast is "programmed" which means (I think) the tube is turned on a little slower and thus last quite a bit longer. Triad ballast is about $38? It is a little bit cheaper to buy the Tek fixture than to build it yourself, unless you go into a 5' setup, then its quite a bit cheaper to build. Of course Sunlight Supply doesn't make a 5' fixture so maybe that sounds silly. But per watt, the 80 watt 5' is alot cheaper to make than a 4' or smaller.


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## ming (Dec 6, 2003)

IUnknown said:


> I need to look into that. I thought I read on reef central what the wattage was equivalent to on the T5 bulbs(like 24W T5's=36W PC?). I've had to turn off two of the bulbs because the momentum of the tank was out of control. With just two of the 24W bulbs its doing fine.


I have also read on reefcentral that the T5 are a LOT more powerful then PC, comparable to halides but on a different scale because halides has a point of intensity whereas the T5's would be more even throughout the tank. Many people on reefcentral has said the T5's caused bleaching on many high light corals unless placed on the bottom of a 24" tank or shaded, very much unlike PC which the corals would need to be placed up top near the light because PC's aren't strong enough. This ofcourse is all hearsay and not from experience because I dont have T5's. 
Based on those results, I wouldn't be surprised if 54W T5 = 96W PC.


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## frmrreefr (Jan 5, 2005)

Just a word to the wise, take what you hear on Reef Central with a grain of salt.... Many people on there claim to know what they are talking about, but in reality have no clue as to what the heck they are talking about. Case in point, look for a thread in the equip forum that was started by an "Expert" who claimed that "PC's put out more light per watt than DE HQI's". Just read that thread and have a laugh. Search under PC vs. HQI.....


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## PJAN (Feb 18, 2005)

Well, I did some investigation because I was setting up the new tank ( open - all glass).
The decision was MH pendant or T5+reflectors.
So I went to the LFS which had hanging over the coral tank ( 2 tanks) :
1 tank with 2x 250 Watt MH HQI
1 tank with 6 T5 54 Watt T5 with reflector

The MH HQI was hanging about 45 cm above the surface because of the heat. The T5 pendant was hanging about 25 cm above the surface.
Notice : the 250 Watt MH HQI was 1 year old.

Results (measured with a luxmeter) :
1x 250 Watt MH HQI : 22000 lux on water surface

T5 pendant in the middle : 42000 lux on the surface

What a shock. The owner of the LFS told me he was changing all his tanks to T5 beacuse of this huge difference and he already knew this fact. Furthermore the tank was more equally lightened with T5 and he had a choice in color (kelvin rate) top shwo of his animals. And there is no need to change the T5 every year, as for the MH there is ( losing 30 -50% after a year).

Gr. PJAN
( ordering T5......)


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

PJAN - in your test, I believe you are describing just 1 (of 2) 250watt MH being measured. How many of the 6 54watt T5's were used in the test?

Can't really evaluate outcomes without that info. :icon_frow


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## ming (Dec 6, 2003)

PJAN:
Do you happen to know a 250W MH HQI would be measured at if it was new?
And how strong is sunlight supposed to be at?


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## PJAN (Feb 18, 2005)

Short Reply :

I was interested in the maximum output (lux) reached at the water surface.

So I measured directly under the HQI and in the middle of the T5 pendant ( all on).

The HQI pendant : it lost much light when measured to the side. It weakened fast to the sides. In the past I measured with new lamps : about 40000 lux, depending of the distance lamp - water. 

The T5-pendant : It had almost everywhere 42000 lux, it was not really necessary to measure exactly in the middle. 

Gr. PJAN


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Then if I'm doing my math right, in the optimal lighting spot, a T5 is approximately 50% brighter, per watt, than a 1 year old MH. And that doesn't factor in the the fact that the optimal spot for a MH is truly a "spot" where the T5 cast a very large field of light that is nearly as bright everywhere.

Unless MH's lose 1/3 of their brightness after 1 year, that's a pretty strong endorsement for T5's!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

OK folks. PJAN posted a cranking use of T5's here. Got me itching for my own.

But I've yet to see someone be so bold as to suggest a meaningful ratio here... like "x T5 watts = y PC or NO watts".

Anyone care to take an intelligent/informed stab at this?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I haven't done any measurements, so this isn't going to sound very intelligent, but... the lumen/watt ratio (=efficiency?) is going to be similar for these lamps. In other words, an otherwise equally created and connected 32W T8 and a 40W T12 are going to look very similar. Due to the form factor the T8 appears to be a little brighter, and allows for a better reflector design. T5 brings that a step further, smaller diameter, looks brighter, easier to reflect some of the light that would otherwise be lost.

This sounds sorta weird if you compare a PC and a NO bulb (huge difference, right?) but if you think about it, a 36W PC bulb is much shorter and compacter than a 40W T12, so it WILL light up the area close to it much brighter, but if you would magically shrink the T12 bulb to the same dimensions as the PC bulb while keeping the wattage the same it would be just as bright. Or, in other words, if you have a 1 ft bulb and a 4 ft bulb and you push 40W through the 1 ft bulb and 160W through the 4 ft bulb they would appear to have similar brightness.

Anyway... my thought is that 1 Watt T5 ~ 1 Watt T12 ~ 1 Watt PC, with the T5 leading the pack in efficiency because you can wrap an almost perfect reflector around it.

Keep in mind that 6 T5 bulbs of 54W each is (besides very bright) also a lot of juice that you're feeding it and a lot of heat being created as a side effect.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Another thing... after using my T5 54W Starcoats for about a year they started looking very dim and yellow, which became apparent when I switched one out with a new one. Yes they still light up and look like bright bulbs, but the overall plant growth and tank appearance suffered. 
Not sure about the live span of other brands.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Wasserpest - I _do _ appreciate your taking a shot at this. But maybe I should have been more clear in my question...

You fell back to a kind of "a watt is a watt is a watt" response. Yup. I think we probably knew that. But when we get away from the pure lumens/watt ratio (as you stated up front) we get to the real question that maybe I should have asked...

What the _effective _ ratio of T5s to other bulbs?​
In other words, when you take into account any other obvious factors, like more efficient reflectors, _then _ what is the effective ratio?

At the end of the day, it's all about the lumens per watt deliver into the tank, down to the plants, that we need to understand. Everything else is just gobblety-****.

Do appreciate the good "actual usage" info on the bulb life too! Maybe sets the record straight a bit.roud:


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## PJAN (Feb 18, 2005)

Wasserpest said:


> Anyway... my thought is that 1 Watt T5 ~ 1 Watt T12 ~ 1 Watt PC, with the T5 leading the pack in efficiency because you can wrap an almost perfect reflector around it.
> 
> Keep in mind that 6 T5 bulbs of 54W each is (besides very bright) also a lot of juice that you're feeding it and a lot of heat being created as a side effect.


Well, I Holland there is not much discussion about T5's any more.

1) Efficiency

Y're right Wasserpest that 1 watt = 1 watt or lumens/ watt is more or less the same regarding any bulb.

A T5 54 Watt has alsmost the same length as a T8 36 Watt. They just pump up the watt / cm or for you USA people watt / inch.
So the T5 can push more lumen / length due to higer watt/ length and this closes the discussion here.

2) reflectors
The T5 is thinner and therefore the reflectors can be used more effectively. There is less inner-reflection, the spread is less and the beam more narrow.
So in the end there are two advantages :
a) more lumen / length of the bulb
b) narrow beam and less loss due to effective reflectors

3) how much in practice :
Compared to 3 x 36 Watt (=108 Watt) bulbs with reflector and 2 x T5 54 Watt (=108 Watt) bulbs with reflector , all hanging about 8 cm ( 3 inch ) above the water surface:

At water surface :

2xT5 54 watt : 36500 lux

3x T8 36 Watt : 19300 lux

I removed the reflectors from the T5's and lett is spread all in the hood.

2 xT5 54 Watt without reflectors got me a 19100 lux. So the reflector is quite important.

4) Life span

The brand Philips and Osram have regular bulbs. We call them the "800's" and "900".
The 800's are :
830 ( 3000 kelvin)
865 ( 6500 kelvin)

They last till they are broken and hold at least 90% of their original output.
The 900's must be replaced after a year.

PDF folder about reflectors and life span : clic here 

Other unknown brands or even bulbs of aquariummanufacturers can best be replaced after a year.

5) the juice  

Well, here's a statement :

*Knowing how to use light will save you money !
By PJAN*

Example 1 : T8 36 Watt

I could have on my tank ( 90 gallons) a hood with at least 4 or better 5 bulbs.
Which will give me 5 x 36 = 180 Watt's. Thats only 2 Watt / gallon.

The low output forces me to light the tank for 10 hours at 100% :
10 x 180 = 1800 Watt juice.

Everybody ok ? :icon_bigg 

Example 2 : 6 x T5 54 Watt

Using the pendant and hanging 25 cm above the surface I need more light.
This pendant is so bright, that it I can change the light routine.

10.30 - 11.30 4x 54 Watt 40% = 88 Watt
11.30 - 12.30 4 x 54 Watt 50% = 110 Watt

12.30 - 16.30 100% 4 x 54 Watt and 50% 2 x 54 Watt (peak!) 
= 880 + 216 = 1096 Watt 

16.30 - 18.30 : 4 x 54 Watt 50% = 216 Watt
18.30 - 19.30 : 4 x 54 Watt 30% = 65 Watt
19.30 - 23.00 : 2x 54 Watt 5% (evening light) = 20 Watt

Total juice :

88 + 110 + 1096 + 216 + 65 + 20 = 1577 Watt / day roud: 

So, the trick is to use a dimmable ballast and give the plants a real bright peak during a couple of hours. I can assure you this works very very well.

Gr. PJAN


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

Given how 4 bulb setups are on separate ballasts, you can run each set at 8hrs with a 4hr overlap simulating high noon. This saves you 33% relative to all bulbs on all day.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Am I oversimplifying this problem here? PJAN has posted a setup where the lux (as measured at the water surface) of one 108 watt T8 reflected setup was 1930 lumens. Under the same conditions the identical amount of T5 reflected watts delivered 3650 watts to the same point. Unless I'm missing something that means that a properly reflected T5s produced a massive  90% more lumens than a T8!

Am I missing something here? If PJAN's numbers are to be believed, this is big! Where in the past I might have thought 4wpg were a lot for a 75g tank, now this suggests that 2wpg of T5's could be almost the same amount of light!

Love to see other thoughts on this. Agreement, disagreement, I don't care. But I'd love to see it thrashed out!


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

scolley said:


> ...
> Love to see other thoughts on this. Agreement, disagreement, I don't care. But I'd love to see it thrashed out!


I second that. Anyone?


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## AlexPerez (Jan 25, 2004)

I setup the 6 bulb Tek T5 over my 55 gallon about a
week agao and when running only 4 bulbs it is a lot 
brighter than the 4X55 AHS kit that was over it. 
Running all 6 bulbs makes the plants pearl like crazy.


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## PJAN (Feb 18, 2005)

scolley said:


> Am I missing something here? If PJAN's numbers are to be believed, this is big! Where in the past I might have thought 4wpg were a lot for a 75g tank, now this suggests that 2wpg of T5's could be almost the same amount of light!


Read the last lines of Rex Grigg : http://rexgrigg.com/light.htm

The point is that with 2 x54 Watt = 108 Watt you're jamming this light in two bulbs compaired to 3 bulbs of 36 Watt each.....
This combined with good M-shaped reflectors (narrow beam) and effective coating, will give you more light beamed straight down.
On paper there is perhaps an total equal amount of lux/Watt. 
Getting it effectively down is a second thing.

The general rule Watt/ gallon doesn't mean much to me, I depend on measurements with a good lux-meter. Hell, someone can say " I have 10 Watt/gallon" but if beamed up to the ceiling, it is not very effective :icon_bigg 

Ah, Scolly, change you're flight plans roud: And I will let you run around with my lux-meter and test several tanks with different light setups roud: 

Gr. PJAN


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Sorry PJAN, my travel plans are set. But one of these days I'll take you up on that light meter offer. Thanks!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Maybe I am the one who is misunderstanding, but let me try once more and then I will shut up :tongue: 

Your original question was:



scolley said:


> suggest a meaningful ratio here... like "x T5 watts = y PC or NO watts".


And my answer was that 1 T5 Watt will be similar to 1 T8 or PC Watt. 

Then PJAN said a lot of correct things about reflectors and diameters and I think we are all saying the same things, which is that it's not so much the kind of light that matters, but the quality and shape of the reflector, and the diameter and shape of the bulb.



scolley said:


> PJAN has posted a setup where the lux (as measured at the water surface) of one 108 watt T8 reflected setup was 1930 lumens. Under the same conditions the identical amount of T5 reflected watts delivered 3650 watts to the same point. Unless I'm missing something that means that a properly reflected T5s produced a massive 90% more lumens than a T8!


You temporarily lost me there :icon_bigg The lux of one 108W T8 setup was 1930 lumens, and the T5 delivered 3650 Watts!!! Just kidding, I know what you mean :wink: but it comes down to reflectors again. There simply aren't good T12/T8 reflectors available, so if you compare both setups with the T8's blocking themselves out while the T5's enjoy their separate reflectors... well it's obvious. It's not that the T8 bulb is bad and the T5 setup is twice as much light per watt, it's just that we are not comparing apples to apples.

If you'd use T5 bulbs with a mediocre reflector, you would see less difference with other bulb types. Maybe your question of x watts = y watts is a little ambiguous. 

I guess it's like the new digital cameras. People think it matters if they look at a 1 MPixel vs 8 MPixel image on their computers, and don't realize that it isn't the resolution, but the quality of the optics and LCD that determines the outcome.

Likewise we are going WOW that T5 setup is nice but it isn't so much the T5 but the nice single reflector that makes it better than anything else.

WP... a convinced T5 user :fish:


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> Maybe your question of x watts = y watts is a little ambiguous.


Agreed, because yes, we are all saying the same thing. A watt is basically a watt, and it all comes down to reflectors. Yet there is a huge _but _ here...

But - because of their size, T5's appear to be generally much better reflected than T8's or maybe even T12's. Which could lead us to a rule of thumb that would still be usable in wpg discussions. Like "_1 T5 watt > 1.75 T8 watts, given typical reflectors_". Which would be helpful.

We can caveat things till we are blue in the face... how far from the tank? how old is the bulb? using xyz ballasts, using xyz reflectors. That doesn't really lead us anywhere useful.

I'm just looking for a simple, general rule of thumb. And I may have expressed something like it above.

Thanks.


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## bussardnr (Apr 23, 2005)

bump. how does this increase in light affect the fish?
i found this on google. http://www.warehouse-lighting.com/T5.htm#
would it be worth it to get that and dismantle and get new bulbs it so i can use a canopy?


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

wow looks like a good deal...


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