# How to tell Softwood from Hardwood?



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

The easiest way is your saw. If it's Oak, Hickory, Rock Maple.....you'll know instantly. I just abused a few power tools shaping some Mopane. 

The more litter in the area bark, leaves there is will help once you lean to identify the trees. Some trees have distinctive color to the wood wet or aged. Mulberry is orange and it ages almost black, redwood turns darker grey, oak lighter grey.


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

DogFish said:


> The easiest way is your saw. If it's Oak, Hickory, Rock Maple.....you'll know instantly. I just abused a few power tools shaping some Mopane.
> 
> The more litter in the area bark, leaves there is will help once you lean to identify the trees. Some trees have distinctive color to the wood wet or aged. Mulberry is orange and it ages almost black, redwood turns darker grey, oak lighter grey.


I dont use a saw lol...
I'm not even sure if we own one...
Were not very handy... But if you want something like a scarf, homemade preserves, fresh veggies, origami lanterns, etc... were the people to talk to..

It's not a tree either... At least I don't think it is.. Doesn't grow very tall... Its some sort of native bush that grows everywhere down here.. Looks awesome and there a huuuge supply of it.. Smells lovely as well.. 
I'm gonna go look at it once the sun comes up, I just wanted a list of a few things to try or look out for so that I know if it will just fall apart or not... I'm actually thinking it probably wont do.. I just want to be sure...


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Consider buying one of these: http://www.google.com/products/cata...rTyD8mBgwf4z7ChAg&ved=0CI4BEPICMAI#ps-sellers

It will come in handy. This one has nice middle level teeth, that would be good for collecting up to 4" thick branches or roots.

Take pics. You state DNR usually has an native plant identifier. 

Also, as the wood dries hard woods will stay heavy and have a loader "crisp" sound when struck (think drum sticks)vs. soft wood that will get lighter and have a dull thump sound.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Hard wood is harder to break than soft wood. If it is short and aromatic seems it might be woody perennial plants like sagebrush or sage, doubt they would work well but try it. Shrimp keepers are using cholla skeletons, that is soft stuff. I was admiring dead coyote brush bushes the other day, pretty sure that stuff is far too soft to last in a tank and yesterday picked up an enormous English ivy branch, also very soft stuff. Look for sycamore, that is a hard wood. No manzanita around here darn it.

Compare the branching of the stuff to the live trees too. The pine trees in the park have radial branching, many branches coming from one spot on the branch. Eucalyptus have sparse branches with narrow crotches. I don't want either one.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Chola bottom pc with roots last a lot longer as they are thicker. Pines are soft and the sap will be an issue. 

Soft/Hard wood is a matter of density. This is why Mopane will sink and why pine is so buoyant.


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

Well. the sun is on its way up... I''l be out soon to go have a look... And maybe get a picture of the piles and piles and piles of weathered wood lying around...
Perhaps a picture of the wood would help some of you with more expertise than me..
I'll take a picture of the bush top.. I'm sure its common but can;t seem to find it on google no matter what I do...


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

I'd guess the small bushes are scrub oak. I don't think scrub sage has many branches that are thick enough. IIRC they'll be smaller than manzanita. But you're saying it smells good and that does sound like sage.

I think any wood you find with any size to it will last a while in a tank. The only fast growing plants in the coastal regions are grasses and flowering annuals.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Eldachleich said:


> I dont use a saw lol...
> I'm not even sure if we own one...
> Were not very handy... But if you want something like a scarf, homemade preserves, fresh veggies, origami lanterns, etc... were the people to talk to..


No input on the topic here, sorry. But that quoted bit made me laugh. :thumbsup:


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

fresh.salty said:


> I'd guess the small bushes are scrub oak. I don't think scrub sage has many branches that are thick enough. IIRC they'll be smaller than manzanita. But you're saying it smells good and that does sound like sage.
> 
> I think any wood you find with any size to it will last a while in a tank. The only fast growing plants in the coastal regions are grasses and flowering annuals.


Well... I fell asleep... But now I am on my way out... 

To be honest im not too sure if it is native... But it is everywhere... 

I'll get some pictures....
The problem is that this is for a nano... So... I need it to really last...

I don;t think it is scrub sage... It smells.. Not remotely like pine but alot like christmas... Nice and spiced.. Soft... and it always smells a little dusty.. I;ve always loved the smell of it after rain.


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


> No input on the topic here, sorry. But that quoted bit made me laugh. :thumbsup:


Lol... 
Sad but true... We are not handy people... Well we are.. just not handy for things like that.

I wish I could trade my jams and pickles for fish supplies....


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

DogFish said:


> Chola bottom pc with roots last a lot longer as they are thicker. Pines are soft and the sap will be an issue.


Why would sap be an issue?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Fishly said:


> Why would sap be an issue?


Pine oil consists mainly of cyclic terpene alcohols. It's not really all that safe for humans, imagine how bad it woulds be for a fish or a shrimp.


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

Don't pine and other softwood branches fall into waters all the time?


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## DesmondTheMoonBear (Dec 19, 2011)

Fishly said:


> Don't pine and other softwood branches fall into waters all the time?


They sure do, and having visited many lakes for fishing, the larger ones seem to last for awhile. I'm sure many here avoid them though because they will eventually soften and rot away, and the smaller pieces are probably a pain to get to sink.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Fishly said:


> Don't pine and other softwood branches fall into waters all the time?


Yes, but they don't fall into aquariums aka small self contained environment. 

A good way to tell if its hardwood or not is to dig your fingernail into the wood. Strip the bark first. You will make a mark fairly easily on softwood and very hard on hardwood.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Fishly said:


> Don't pine and other softwood branches fall into waters all the time?


How many gallons of water in a lake? 
How many gallons of water in your tank?
How many pine branches in a lake? 
How many branches in your tank?

What is the % of pine sap to total gallons of water in each?

The safety factor is in the Math.

And one final part of the equation....there are NO pine trees in the Tropics were most of our fish and inverts live.


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

Lol... I've seen a pine tree in the tropics... Outside a bank but still... Or maybe it was... hmm... looked like a pine..
Anyways... I got some pics of the wood and some of the surrounding plants..
I scrapped alot of it because it was very soft. Though I'm not to sure its the wood itself... Alot fo this wood has been out there for nearly a decade and at this point I just didn't feel right putting it in. It was almost too weathered.. 
The bigger pieces were just amazing.. This stuff twists in the most interesting ways.. As interesting if not more than manzy... Not as sudden of a twist but very graceful. You cant really tell from the picture though.. It just looks like a big old pile of sticks.
The bigger stuff was still really solid and incredibly hard. If it was more than two inches thick we couldnt even snap it off. The smaller branches crumbled away tp nothing. I would have so many options for anything 20 gallons - 400 gallons.. Bigger if I wanted... Theres wasn't alot of options for my 6 gallon though...
I did find some fresher stuff... probably about a year or so.. It was pretty solid so I took it home...
Still not too sure about it yet. I did the fingernail thing and it did not scratch easily. A little more than the oak pieces I have though.. I;m going to boila pice and see how I feel.
In the meantime maybe you guys could help me identify it. The wood came form two sources.. that fragrant bush and a similar looking but different shrub/ tree.

The first picture is of the pile of wood. Actually its not a pile. Its one whole tree that just died and remained. That thing is about 10 feet wide and 15 feet tall. Theres many many many more trees like this as well. Big dead piles of awesome looking wood everywhere.. Thats why I'm kinda hoping I can use it... 
The second picture is of the leaves of a living version of that tree. I hope it can be identified..
The last two pictures is of the leaves that fragrant bush. And one of it form a bit further. They dont grow as tall maybe as tall as me... But theres big old stretches of this stuff dead as well and theres some lovely pieces in there.. 
Sorry for the terrible picture quality.. I have an old cell...
I can't bring myself to update it... I would break one of those new ones in about a day.

And on one final note.. How is pepper branches in a tank? We have lots and lots of pepper trees lining the roads here and I found a couple branches that were nice... 
Fun fact... everyone here calls the pepper trees willows. I don't believe they have any idea that they are pepper trees... They are always weeping willows when people mention them.


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## dhg is my plant (Dec 19, 2010)

So we shouldn't use pine wood as driftwood? I found a bunch of cool branches and I am water logging them and I think is pine. I remember that one of the top aquascapes last year had like a bunch of pine wood sticking up like a forest. And in the scape they also had bark still on it. I also peeled the bark off mine because it had great coloration.


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

DogFish said:


> How many gallons of water in a lake?
> How many gallons of water in your tank?
> How many pine branches in a lake?
> How many branches in your tank?
> ...


All of that is irrelevant if pine sap doesn't bother fish. You said it _might_ be dangerous, but do you know of anyone who has tried it in their aquarium?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

The saps of most trees are toxic. This is their defense against getting eaten. It's best not to put fresh wood into your tank. This is why you put aged dead wood into your tank. Over time, the toxins break down and are harmless.


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## dhg is my plant (Dec 19, 2010)

Then how do i spped up the aging


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Kathyy said:


> Hard wood is harder to break than soft wood. .


Balsa wood is a hardwood. :icon_wink


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

Anyone know about that pepper branch?


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## dhg is my plant (Dec 19, 2010)

are there ways to speed up aging?


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Kathyy said:


> *Hard wood is harder to break than soft wood.* If it is short and aromatic seems it might be woody perennial plants like sagebrush or sage, doubt they would work well but try it. Shrimp keepers are using cholla skeletons, that is soft stuff. I was admiring dead coyote brush bushes the other day, pretty sure that stuff is far too soft to last in a tank and yesterday picked up an enormous English ivy branch, also very soft stuff. Look for sycamore, that is a hard wood. No manzanita around here darn it.
> 
> Compare the branching of the stuff to the live trees too. The pine trees in the park have radial branching, many branches coming from one spot on the branch. Eucalyptus have sparse branches with narrow crotches. I don't want either one.


That's not necessarily true. There are many hardwoods that are softer than a softwood. And visa versa.



> Discovery Channel
> Hardwoods are not necessarily harder or denser than softwoods. In fact, a wood's density doesn't influence how it's classified. The tree's seeds determine whether the wood is considered hardwood or softwood. Hardwood trees always are angiosperms; they have seeds with some sort of covering. For example, apple trees are hardwoods, and the apples cover the apple seeds. In contrast, softwood trees are always gymnosperms, which have uncovered seeds that simply fall from the trees. Conifers are gymnosperms. For example, pine trees have cones and the seeds are released into the air, via the wind, as soon as they mature. Another characteristic common to hardwood trees is that they are deciduous, losing their leaves in autumn. Softwood trees are evergreens, holding onto their leaves all year long.


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

Try punching your finger nail against the wood (not to hard, just enough to make a dent). If you can make a dent with relative ease then it is not hard enough. If it takes a lot to make a dent then it should be hard enough. If the wood has small ridges that are soft, but the main body of the wood is rock solid then it is also hard enough. I hope this helps. I've used it several times with success.

Edit: I didn't read post 18 thoroughly enough. Sorry for being redundant.


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## Elliot (Oct 3, 2010)

GraphicGr8s said:


> That's not necessarily true. There are many hardwoods that are softer than a softwood. And visa versa.


I thought we were talking about the wood being "hard wood". Correct me if I'm wrong, but the hardwood trees that are softer then softwood trees will still disintegrate in water even though they are catorigized as "hardwood"?


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

DogFish said:


> How many gallons of water in a lake?
> How many gallons of water in your tank?
> How many pine branches in a lake?
> How many branches in your tank?
> ...


What about cypress trees? 




> Many of the Florida occurrences of Pine-cypress forest are in swampy areas such as the Everglades.[4]


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Yes, we're talking about hard wood (density), not hardwood.
Mazanita, a common driftwood tree/shrub is an evergreen.

Soaking wood in water for a few months or let sit in the sun for a bit longer to age wood, depending on the mass. Soaking makes it easy to strip off the bark.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Elliot said:


> I thought we were talking about the wood being "hard wood". Correct me if I'm wrong, but the hardwood trees that are softer then softwood trees will still disintegrate in water even though they are catorigized as "hardwood"?


It was hard to tell if this was about hard woods or hardwoods since it occurred both ways. Now if you want to talk about a hard wood hardwood look at ipe aka ironwood.


Most woods will/are disintegrating under water. However you look at some of the pines that they are harvesting from rivers that fell off rafts 100 years ago and that wood is great. A lot depends on the oxygen that is available to the wood. Same goes for metal. Also remember the woods that were available years ago were all slow growth trees. Most of that wood is long gone.

As an afterthought. Bungalows built 100+ years ago in the Keys are still around and termite free. The wood? Dade County Pine. Naturally resistant. No longer around. 
Long leaf pine is a softwood hard wood. No longer available as new wood. All from salvage materials as is DCP


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## dhg is my plant (Dec 19, 2010)

So I've collected some branches during the winter from what I think is pine and the wood broke off easily. I have torn off the bark and I am now soaking it. Should I soak it for a month and let it sun dry or is the pine even safe to put in the tank as driftwood?


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

If your nail can make a good gouge into it It's generally going to be soft wood...is how I tell.


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