# Jeffrey's "Big Boy"---120g Planted: Updated 1/24/2022 w/ pictures



## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, it's finally time. I've been talking about it and planning it out for a year(Evidenced: here, here, here, and here ) and now it's finally coming together, my 120g planted. To read a fair amount of background on me and my planted tanks, and especially the details leading up to this 120g, you can check out the link to my blog in my sig.

I've been waiting to put up a journal until things were starting to move a little quicker, and now the speed is picking up. I'm taking my time on this one, doing everything right from the get go, but there should start to be some action in the coming weeks.

For now, a little teaser shot:


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

The tank is a 120g Marineland, 48"x24"x24", with a 700 gph corner overflow. I will most likely be removing the overflow and simply using the exisiting holes as the intake and output for my filtration system. There will be one input from the overflow hole. Output will either be entirely by a substrate level spray bar similar to BryceM's, or the substrate level spray bar plus two glass lily outputs. 

The stand is maple, custom built. I've built plenty of stands before, some that even passed as decent(see the first post here), but for this I wanted professional furniture grade. After getting the thing home, it's apparent that I could have easily done the stand because most of the trim is prefab from a woodworking store like Rockler, but the canopy was the real gem du jour. The canopy is very solid, and incorporates a nice design to minimize light from shining through the seams. That was important to me and I couldn't have duplicated it unless I blatantly ripped off the cabinet maker. 

The filtration will be a closed loop system similar to Scolley's, but incorporating three canister filters instead of his seperate pump/filtration modules. I will also be incorporating an auto water change similar to Sergio's.

Lighting will be a 6x54w Tek T5HO with 3 Giessman Middays and 3 Aquafloras. CO2 pressurized with a pH controller. 

Finally, the whole thing will be controlled by a Wasser-controller. 

These projects will be completed in the very near future. In consideration for expansion, I'll be building my piping with additional connections for a furture perstaltic pump auto-dosing setup similar to Bill's. 

I've taken a year to plan this out, so when I say "near future" that means, hopefully, before December 31. I'm patient and planning to build everything perfectly. I'm heavily leaning on the learning and experience of others.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Jeffery - I applaud your self control! You have done your homework and the tank will be great. Now.... you have to hurry up because the rest of us need immediate gratification! We want more pictures!

Have fun with this build!

Bill


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Bill,

Thanks. I've had a long while to prepare for this. My wife and I decided to move back to Atlanta where we would buy a house last November, but thanks to the global economic meltdown, we weren't able to until July...so I had a lot of time to read and plan.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

I've been a busy boy.

I've ordered all the parts for my Wasser-controller, they should be here in the next few days. Included in that is the float valve I'll be using for my auto top off as well as the irrigation solenoids. 

I also removed the overflow and painted the back of the tank. I'll put some pics up later.

I was planning to draw out a P&ID of the plumbing today so that I could get an idea of what all parts I'll need, but I've had a slight hang-up with my 60-P that requires my immediate attention, so the P&ID will have to wait.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Definitely interested in seeing your auto fill/top off design. I am still looking at these with an eye to set something up for my Sulawesi tank some day. Wasserpest is a great resource for concepts. 

Bill


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

billb said:


> Definitely interested in seeing your auto fill/top off design. I am still looking at these with an eye to set something up for my Sulawesi tank some day. Wasserpest is a great resource for concepts.
> 
> Bill



Yeah, I'm stealing shamelessly from him and few other people. Why reinvent the wheel? However, I'm doing it cafeteria style, picking and choosing what works best for me.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

As mentioned, I cut out the overflow.

Before:










After:










I left the bottom silicone in place since it'll be covered by substrate and this way if I ever decide to put it back on, I've got an outline(as if it wouldn't already be easy enough).

And I painted the back of the tank black.

Before:










Midway (placing styrofoam under the tank):










After:


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Niiiiice. roud:roud:roud:


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## bherren1 (Feb 15, 2009)

I was born and raised in the Greater Atlanta Area...Lawrenceville out in Gwinnett County...and I do miss it sometimes. Not the traffic though...(sorry for the off topic comment in your journal)

I'm looking forward to watching this one develop and seeing what I can learn along the way. Great stuff!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

One more thing checked off, my Tek fixture now has two cords instead of one:




























I've love to say that the brown cord was so I could tell the difference, really it was just that the brown cord was the cheaper option...and on a setup of this magnitude every dollar counts!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

I got all the parts in for my controller and I got it all soldered together:










I have four independently controller sockets in the Technical-Pro power supply, with 2 spares for non controlled power. I have 2 24 VAC controlled ports on the controller for my water change solenoids when I pipe everything together.

I'll be operating co2/light bank 1 together and UV/light bank 2 together to start off with so I'll have s splitter downstream of the socket. I've wired the power supply so that the relays are in parrellel to the switches, and therefore the switches on the PS can manually turn on a circuit. Depending on my uses later, I may rewire this so that the switches manually override the relays and shut down the circuits.

Materials include:

* DIG 5006 Drip Irrigation Controller ordered from Sprinkler Warehouse for $65.
* 4 120 VAC, 3 Amp relays, part number Tyco KHAU-1711-24 ordered from ebay, 
$4/each
* Technical Pro PS-S8 rack mount power supply ordered form ebay, $20/shipped
* 2 Rainbird irrigation solenoids, 1" NPT, from Sprinkler Warehouse, $11
* 1 "miniature" float switch from Fish Bowl Innovations, $12 plus shipping
* Some granulated activated carbon inline cannisters for the refill line


I'll be taking a little break from this tank for the next month or so. I'm taking some distance learning classes and have to focus my efforts on finishing those up during January.


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## steve_dowg2001 (Aug 4, 2009)

i have a 75 gallon should i have put styrofoam under my tank? doesnt this help with not cracking???? my tank is a oceanic soo the glass is pretty thick. but can you still have problems with a crack? your tank is gonna look nice. i love the 120 gallon just dont have the space for it.i cant wait to see this all planted up


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

steve_dowg2001 said:


> i have a 75 gallon should i have put styrofoam under my tank? doesnt this help with not cracking???? my tank is a oceanic soo the glass is pretty thick. but can you still have problems with a crack? your tank is gonna look nice. i love the 120 gallon just dont have the space for it.i cant wait to see this all planted up



Well, I've had a 75g without any foam under it. Unless it's a custom tank, most manufactures use the same thickness in their glass according to tank size. As tanks get larger, the slightest contortion of the glass can result in a shattered tank and a flooded house. 75 is kind of borderline to me. Any larger and I would personally always put foam under it. Any smaller and I never worry about it. It's a personal judgment call. 

I leveled the stand, and subsequently the tank, but the foam underneath it will help out that much more for any inconsistencies in the floor or stand once I put water in it.


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## thrak76 (Aug 3, 2009)

I missed your last update earlier this month. That controller is very cool! What inspired your thoughts for putting that together?

This is most definitely a high-tech tank.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

thrak76 said:


> I missed your last update earlier this month. That controller is very cool! What inspired your thoughts for putting that together?
> 
> This is most definitely a high-tech tank.


It's a Wasser-controller:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/66050-wasser-controller.html


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, time to get moving on this thing. Local club auction is March 7, so I'd LOVE to have it cycled by then. 

I'm putting the finishing touches on the plumbing design right at the moment, and I need a sanity check.



Look at my drawing. Will I get flow through both strainers? The part of me that has engineering experience can't reconcile the part of me that's like everybody else. 

On the one hand, path of less resistance and all that, it seems like I'd get more flow through Strainer A. But ther other part of me says that, assuming that the tube is filled with water, I'll get flow from both equally(or at least approximately equally).

Sanity check please.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Ok, here we go. 

Here's my first pass at a plumbing design.....ok, not my first pass, but my first "final draft". Image first"










To fill in some holes:

T M means Top Macros, B m means Bottom Micros, T R is Top Refill, B CO2 is, well, you get the idea
Spray bar is substrate level, and points up and slightly towards back glass

Now, to head off what I think will be a few questions/immediate thoughts:

Tank is corner drilled. Intake/output must enter the tank in that corner
Almost every ball valve is actually a ball valve/true union connection, except the pH probe
Eheims don't have ball valves because they have their own disconnects
Mag Drive 7, 700gph, is there for added circulation/co2 diffusion. Probably overkill at 700 gph, but I already have it, so no added expense. *Might* downgrade it to a Danner 5 @ 500 gph if necessary. Additionally, it runs the tank drain. Because of the design of my house, I need to pump the water up 7'. @ 7' of head, Danner 7 still gets 350 gph. 
The 700 gph is almost definitely an issue for the UV. I'm going to measure acutal flow, and if it is indeed an issue(as I beileve it will be) that will force the downgrade to the Danner 5

I really welcome all thoughts/suggestions because I'll be building soon.



Edit: Somebody suggested a drawing with flow direction, so, I've attached it below


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

...


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Hey Jeff,

I may have missed this but what size is your UV? With the plumbing scheme you have, you will have to match the flow to the UV as you suggested. Have you considered putting the two canisters on separate loops? You are pulling water for three pumps in the existing diagram - this will need a pretty big pipe to handle the flow and prevent cavitation. What diameter pipe are you going to use? If you just had the two canisters they would share an intake but one could return to your spray bar and the other to the top of the tank. If you plumbed the UV into one of those lines I would gues the flow would be appropriate for killing algae & bugs. For flow, you could add a power head internal to the tank and save some $$ on electricity. When your plants grow in they can hide the power head pretty well. I am sensitive to the electric cost as Califonia has a sliding rate scale ( $0.28/kWhr). With three pumps at 140 watts each, our bill jumped 60% over last year!

I would also suggest moving the ferts to a post pump position so you don't feed the filter sludge before the plants. You will have happy bacteria but could cause slime to build up quickly in your filter. 

Looks like fun though, I think I need to another project!

Bill


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Bill, that's a very good comment about the pump. Ultimately, it does seem wasteful to add in that MD 700. Max flow rate for my UV is like 560(or around there), so if indeed the MD 700 is able to pump over 560, then my UV is hindered, or pointless. And, the energy concern is valid.

However, I *need* the MD 700 to drain the tank. I have to go up 7'10" to get to a drain, and the Eheim's won't do that. 

Your comment makes me consider redesigning and putting solenoid A and the MD 700 inline together, and hooking them up to the controller together, so that MD 700 turns on when Solenoid A opens so it can drain the tank. 

Serious consideration (and the full consequences of) will have to wait until tomorrow


By design, there will be no powerheads in the tank. I'm with you, normally, on plant growth covering up wires, but I'm not planning on this being that dense of a tank, so they won't be covered up. The decision to include an over the back loc-line was a big one. I also had to make a tremdeous sacrifice for my water change system, which will use an in tank micro float switch. It will be minimally invasive, but even that was a severe concession. The alternatives to the float switch were relatively cost prohibitive.


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

Maybe having a manifold would be better on the intake. That way you divide floe to the three pumps right away thoer wise the you are going to have to size up and down a lot.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

epond83 said:


> Maybe having a manifold would be better on the intake. That way you divide floe to the three pumps right away thoer wise the you are going to have to size up and down a lot.



I think I understand what you are saying, but: 

All of the pipe, except that immediately touching pumps, is 1", so I don't think the sizing is going to be an issue. 

Also, since this utilizes the advantages of a gravity fed system, I don't think my intake will want for lack of water.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

billb said:


> Hey Jeff,
> 
> I may have missed this but what size is your UV? With the plumbing scheme you have, you will have to match the flow to the UV as you suggested. Have you considered putting the two canisters on separate loops? You are pulling water for three pumps in the existing diagram - this will need a pretty big pipe to handle the flow and prevent cavitation. What diameter pipe are you going to use? If you just had the two canisters they would share an intake but one could return to your spray bar and the other to the top of the tank. If you plumbed the UV into one of those lines I would gues the flow would be appropriate for killing algae & bugs. For flow, you could add a power head internal to the tank and save some $$ on electricity. When your plants grow in they can hide the power head pretty well. I am sensitive to the electric cost as Califonia has a sliding rate scale ( $0.28/kWhr). With three pumps at 140 watts each, our bill jumped 60% over last year!
> 
> ...



Bill, you got me thinking about energy cost in general, so I did a little work up:










That's my estimated energy cost for my 120g. I didn't include my DIY controller, pH controller, and co2 solenoid because they are comparatively insignificant energy consumers. 

The MD 7 will cost me about $35/year to operate. If I downgraded to a MD 5, it would only save me $13/year, so that ultimately doesn't seem worth it to me.

However, it gave me the idea of setting up the MD7 so that it was only on when the co2 solenoid is open. Best estimate is total 3 hours a day in that situation, bringing operating cost of the MD7 down to just $4/year. 

The downside I foresee is wearing out the pump by the many cycles on and off per day. A lot to consider.



Edit: After analysing a little more, what might be the most intersting thing is that the MD 7 would be the largest power consumer, if left on all day.


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## timme278 (Jan 1, 2009)

jmhart said:


> Bill, you got me thinking about energy cost in general, so I did a little work up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i dont get it, why would it cost more in the summer? surely itll be less than winter as the heaters wont be needed as much?

but blimyyyyy, thats still alot of $$$


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Energy is cheap where you live... over here it's 12c in the first tier, and goes up to 24c after that.

Don't know about the plumbing... I tend to keep things as simple as possible, and when you connect that many things, they might start to work against each other. But I am not that knowledgeable with that sort of things.

Your controller setup looks good. Over here, the DIG controller is still sold for $33 at the HD. Keep in mind one limitation of the WC  -- you can only have two things "on" at the same time.

I found that with light and pumps adding some heat to the water I don't need heaters at all... Might be different for a Discus tank though.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

timme278 said:


> i dont get it, why would it cost more in the summer? surely itll be less than winter as the heaters wont be needed as much?
> 
> but blimyyyyy, thats still alot of $$$


Two things:

1)I forgot to mention, my rates in the summer about double at $.0787 per kwh. That's the highest tier, over 1000kwh per month. I'm didn't feel like pulling out my bill, so I'm not sure if I make it to that tier(or if I will with this tank). And that's Georgia, with some of the lowest power rates in the country

Check out your aquariums, you'll probably be surprised at the energy cost. Diana pointed out in another thread specifically about this that it seems like a decent estimate is that tanks will cost about $1 per gallon per year in energy cost, but that of course depends on your specific price per kwh and equipment used. 

2)If you keep your house at approximately the same temperature year around, the amount of energy it takes to keep your tank warm will remain fairly constant. However, in my case, that probably won't quite the case. This tank is in my basement, which isn't heated as well as the rest of the house(not yet at least), so the heaters will have to work more.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Wasserpest said:


> Energy is cheap where you live... over here it's 12c in the first tier, and goes up to 24c after that.


Absolutely. We moved from Alameda, CA. We didn't have air conditioning there and lived in a 950 sqft 2bd/1bath apartment. Now we have central air, 2400 sqft, and our electric bill is less(only by a few bucks). 



Wasserpest said:


> Don't know about the plumbing... I tend to keep things as simple as possible, and when you connect that many things, they might start to work against each other. But I am not that knowledgeable with that sort of things.


I left a job with big oil to move to Atlanta, so I kind of miss the plumbing and wanted to have some fun with it. 



Wasserpest said:


> Your controller setup looks good. Over here, the DIG controller is still sold for $33 at the HD. Keep in mind one limitation of the WC  -- you can only have two things "on" at the same time.


Yeah, absolute bummer on the DIG Controller. I tried to get one through HD's website, but they don't have it(or at least didn't) on the website. I should have had a buddy buy one for me and mail it, would've saved me $30. 

So far, I only need to have 2 relays on at one time, but that includes a light/co2 piggy back. I may have to pull the co2 off and put it on an outlet timer(I see that you ended up having to do that too). 




Wasserpest said:


> I found that with light and pumps adding some heat to the water I don't need heaters at all... Might be different for a Discus tank though.


In the summer that will probably be the case for me, but right now, being winter, our basement drops down around 60. It's only a semi-finished basement. Before the end of the year I'm giving it its own HVAC zone, but I'll still probably keep it in the mid 60s.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

This is my current plumbing sketch. Basically, I moved ferts, H20 refill, and co2 downstream of the filter intakes. I then moved the UV over to the filter return line.

The max flowrate for the UV is 450 gph, and the flowrate of the eheims is stated at 270 gph each, 2x270 = 540....but with the filters full of media, and then all this plumbing, I'm gonna say the flow rate through the UV will be less than 450 gph.

This is what I'm going to go with, but if when it's all put together, the MD 7 is just WAY to much flow, I'll probably try to trade it out for an MD 5(45w instead of 70w for a savings of $13/year )


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

jmhart said:


> Yeah, absolute bummer on the DIG Controller. I tried to get one through HD's website, but they don't have it(or at least didn't) on the website. I should have had a buddy buy one for me and mail it, would've saved me $30.


Yeah, you should have. :wink:



jmhart said:


> So far, I only need to have 2 relays on at one time, but that includes a light/co2 piggy back. I may have to pull the co2 off and put it on an outlet timer(I see that you ended up having to do that too).


Exactly... If you have more than one bank of lights, and need (or want) to run CO2 independently from that, that's when you run into that problem.


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

Did i miss how the new water enters the system or are you still working on that?

Also a slight delay between opening the NC Solenoid and the closing the NO Solenoid might be a good idea so as not to make to much back pressure if the one closes faster then the other opens or something.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

epond83 said:


> Did i miss how the new water enters the system or are you still working on that?
> 
> Also a slight delay between opening the NC Solenoid and the closing the NO Solenoid might be a good idea so as not to make to much back pressure if the one closes faster then the other opens or something.



I got a little lazy on the drawing.

There's a manifold before the MD 7(in the latest diagram). There are 4 lines coming into it. 1 co2, 2 ferts, and the 4th is refill water. Here's where I got lazy, the drawing doesn't include the refill solenoid.

The solenoids that are on the drawing are wired together, so that N.O. is open when water goes into the tank, and N.C. is closed. Then, for water change, they switch. They'll pump for approximately 3 minutes, and then close. There is a mini-float switch in the tank, that is will be looped with the refill solenoid and controller. A minute or so after the drain solenoids are done, the controller will turn on power to the refill solenoid, and leave power on for 5 minutes(or whatever I determine is the amount of time to refill and top off), but the solenoid valve will be shut off by the float switch when the tank is full. Then, a minute or so later, power will be shut off to the solenoid/float switch loop until the next time it's scheduled to run. 

If you are familiar with systems like this, that made sense to you. If not, just hang out and I'll get a diagram with control up here in a couple days.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Hey Jeffrey - I like the new lay out. Looks good.

One thing you could now consider is to replace the Mag 7 with a Needlewheel to mist your CO2. I believe your new plan has the CO2 by pass the filters and I didn't see a reactor. I have a similar situation with my 60 gallon and it works well. 

Bill


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

billb said:


> Hey Jeffrey - I like the new lay out. Looks good.
> 
> One thing you could now consider is to replace the Mag 7 with a Needlewheel to mist your CO2. I believe your new plan has the CO2 by pass the filters and I didn't see a reactor. I have a similar situation with my 60 gallon and it works well.
> 
> Bill




Bill, that's a good idea. I was kind of thinking about doing something like that, so I sketched it out. I'm including a reactor and venturi loop into the setup.


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

looking pretty sweet. So i've been doing some looking into UV sterilizers, seams the max rated flow on them isn't always the most effective flow, wouldn't a 15 watt UV's be better suited for the flow on one Eheim 2028? If you plumbed it before the N.C. Ball Valve and drain i would think it would work better. I've also have read that you only need 1 to 1.5 turn over on a UV to get rid of algea and what not.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

epond83 said:


> looking pretty sweet. So i've been doing some looking into UV sterilizers, seams the max rated flow on them isn't always the most effective flow, wouldn't a 15 watt UV's be better suited for the flow on one Eheim 2028? If you plumbed it before the N.C. Ball Valve and drain i would think it would work better.


Probably, and if the UV isn't working how it should, I'll move it. 




> I've also have read that you only need 1 to 1.5 turn over on a UV to get rid of algae and what not.


The UV won't be running 24/7. I'll probably only have it on for 2 hours a day.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

jmhart said:


> The UV won't be running 24/7. I'll probably only have it on for 2 hours a day.


I wouldn't turn it on unless you have a problem... I have no experience with big tanks like this, but on my 55 I had a UV sterilizer running for probably a week in the last 5 years...


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Regloh said:


> I wouldn't turn it on unless you have a problem... I have no experience with big tanks like this, but on my 55 I had a UV sterilizer running for probably a week in the last 5 years...



It's not just for algae, it's for pathogens too. This tank is going to have some pricey Apistos, and maybe some Discus or Altums.

In the past, I've never had UVs on a timer. I'm going to have to do some research and calculations on exactly how long to leave it on to protect the tank, and obviously I'd like to leave it on for the minimum time.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Oh, good point...

When you do your reseach, also consider the life of the bulb when you cycle it on and off... These kind of bulbs take a bit of a hit everytime you turn them on...


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

Also something to consider is that if you want the UV to kill Parasites to need about 1/3 of the flow that it takes to kill Bacteria and Algae.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Regloh said:


> Oh, good point...
> 
> When you do your reseach, also consider the life of the bulb when you cycle it on and off... These kind of bulbs take a bit of a hit everytime you turn them on...



That is definitely something to research. I feel like the general consensus has been that it's better to turn it off than leave it on all the time, again to preserve bulb life.

But, I know that light bulbs, as with pretty much all electrical devices, do take a hit like you said when cycled on and off. UV bulbs are freakin' expensive, so I definitely want to prolong bulb life.

I wonder which is worse.

Anybody have any thoughts?





epond83 said:


> Also something to consider is that if you want the UV to kill Parasites to need about 1/3 of the flow that it takes to kill Bacteria and Algae.



*That *is a good point. Moving the UV over to a single 2028 may be the way I go after all.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, I finally did some real actual work on this thing. We've got a club auction coming up on March 7th, so I'm trying desperately to have it cycled by then.


When I was growing up, I was the youngest of 3 boys, and we ALL played with Legos. By the time I came along, we had multiple big popcorn tins filled with Legos. Basically, any part you could even want for anything you could ever want to build.

I tried to apply that approach to this. :hihi:












Blank slate:



















Finished product:










Left Side:











Center:











Right Side:












Obviously I could have built the thing with a few less 90 elbows, but I was building for form and function. I was trying to maximize my left over space in the stand. 

And, for the record, I still had to make 1 more trip to Home Depot, and 2 more trips to Ace for more parts. :hihi:

I let it all dry overnight, so water test will be today. Cross your fingers.


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## thrak76 (Aug 3, 2009)

Looks great! Not that i really know anything about plumbing...
I like the Legos analogy as well. I hope all goes well with your water test.


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## Yellow Jacket (Jul 27, 2009)

Looking good!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

thrak76 said:


> Looks great! Not that i really know anything about plumbing...
> I like the Legos analogy as well. I hope all goes well with your water test.





Yellow Jacket said:


> Looking good!



Thanks! :smile:



Little update:


I'm glad I made it so the two circulation loops could be isolated. I started to fill it all up and found a pretty bad leak coming from around my MD7. The housing has a big crack in it. I'll have to fix that later, but...

Since I urgently need to get it cycling, I just closed the valve on that side of the filtration loop, and filled up the other side. Everything is holding pretty well at this point. 

I'm filling it up about 25% a day, to let the stand, tank, and everything get used to the weight. Afterward, I'll drain it all out and put substrate in.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Nice work!

Only 3 more "side trips" isn't that bad, either, for a project this big. If it were my Dad, it would have been about 5x more... (but that's really just b/c he's addicted to hardware stores... you may think I'm kidding, but he and all the local Home Depot employees are on a first name basis... ROFL)


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## Takedakai (Jan 4, 2010)

Wow! That plumbing really looks complicated when its all together. :hihi: I would be so paranoid that I missed a washer or some sealant with all of those pieces! 

Granted with how thorough you've been so far I'm sure you are going to give it all a good test before you fill that bad boy up. 

Nice work so far! I'm looking forward to seeing this "Big Boy" all filled and planted :icon_smil


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

I was wondering about where you have the two Eheim's connect. This there any issue with having water flow tegether at a 4 way like that? Iwas thinkinh of having a return and having a T with a secondary system come into it. Any problems with flow? If one ends up having higher flowthen the other does it cause problems?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

epond83 said:


> I was wondering about where you have the two Eheim's connect. This there any issue with having water flow tegether at a 4 way like that? Iwas thinkinh of having a return and having a T with a secondary system come into it. Any problems with flow? If one ends up having higher flowthen the other does it cause problems?



There's no major issue. As long as your lines are sized appropriately, the flow loss is insignificant.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, major "my bad." I completely overlooked the differential pressure requirement on my drain solenoids. Minimum pressure to open properly is 15 psi, which I'm not gonna be able to get.


Obviously the 30+ psi coming out of my house is enough to open the refill solenoid, but the drain solenoid/n.o. operation solenoid are cavitation because they can't fully open.


However, a solution is in progress.


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## chuukus (Jun 17, 2008)

Nice plumbing! I have six different Mag 5s and they all leak. Some not as bad as others on one tank I have a similar plumbing setup and cant get the pump to totally stop leaking. So my solution to the problem was I built an acrylic container to catch the water that leaks not verry big 6"long 4" tall and 3"wide and hung right under the pump it has a hole drilled in the bottom and tapped for 1/4 threads. I found a small valve that screws in the hole and has 1/4 airline tubing hooked to it so whatever water it collects I can drain every few days in my case. You seem pretty handy so I thought id share my solution to the problem. It saved me 70 dollars from buying a new pump that would probably leak anyway.


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## narhay (Feb 28, 2007)

Just an anecdote of my experience.

Having the drains on the aquarium floor is a bad idea waiting to happen. You have so many connections and daisy chained a few pieces of equipment together that there may be a leak somewhere, at some point. With the pressure of the water on the drains and the fact that if there is a leak and it is not tended to over time, your entire aquarium will drain out.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

narhay said:


> Just an anecdote of my experience.
> 
> Having the drains on the aquarium floor is a bad idea waiting to happen. You have so many connections and daisy chained a few pieces of equipment together that there may be a leak somewhere, at some point. With the pressure of the water on the drains and the fact that if there is a leak and it is not tended to over time, your entire aquarium will drain out.



It's really only a minor risk. The pressure is minimal compared to the pressure rating for pvc and pvc cement, so assuming you connect everything properly, and do a proper pressure test, you barely have anything to worry about. In a system like this, a proper pressure test would be to cap everything off, and turn on your pumps(or connect it to your house water line if your pumps are rated for that). If in 2 hours you haven't gotten a leak, you're good to go. My most powerful pump only puts out about 5 psig of pressure, and the water pressure on the system is negligible compared to the pump. Point is, if my lines can handle the 40+ psig coming out of my house lines, they can handle the pump pressure. 

However, since there is always a risk, I have a battery powered water detector that will be in the stand and will scream out at 95 dB if I ever get a leak. 

It's all about mitigation.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice write up thus far!


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

Pressure is directly related to Water height and has nothing to do with volume. So having a line come over the top of the tank would have slightly (basically the same) pressure as a line coming off the bottom of the tank, given they are the same distance from the surface.

This is way when building a tank on your own it's better to have a bigger foot print then height.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

epond83 said:


> Pressure is directly related to Water height and has nothing to do with volume. So having a line come over the top of the tank would have slightly (basically the same) pressure as a line coming off the bottom of the tank, given they are the same distance from the surface.
> 
> This is way when building a tank on your own it's better to have a bigger foot print then height.


Responding to what narhay said?


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

Yeah sorry should have specified.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Here's some shots of my in tank plumbing. Since I didn't have the light on the tank yet, the shots aren't great. Hopefully you can get an idea of what the in tank stuff looks like:




















And then I put in substrate. Substrate is 3 9L bags of AS Amanzonia II, then with about as much used Eco-Complete on top. It'll all mix eventually, and I'm fine with that. I like the look of the two mixed and I think they'll be a great substrate. As the AS breaks down, it'll give the entire substrate an smaller average grain size. I think that will ultimately be beneficial.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Really nice. Have you thought about removing the black plastic rim on top and perhaps replacing it with a glass center brace, or drilling two more holes and adding a metal rod to prevent bowing?

Perhaps it will be covered up by a canopy.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Wasserpest said:


> Perhaps it will be covered up by a canopy.



There's a matching canopy. I've kept it off for now, but as soon as I move the rocks and wood in, it'll be going on top.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Yay... the fun part is starting


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

All I can say is wow, and I thought my brain hurt when I took geometry tests. Pshaw this has taken the cake. The planning and precision that you had to take to do this must have been great, and it shows. One day when I have a house of me own, hopefully I'll be able to do one of these setups. And you are right this is just like legos :icon_lol: just a "wee bit" more complicated. This has been a great read, and has fried my mind just as much as a good set of math problems (which happens to be my fav subject). This project looks like a real beauty. Can't wait to see it completed. And remember, have fun!
Your pal,


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Seriously impressive.

Can't wait to see where it goes from here!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

What a nicely sized tank! Great dimensions.
Setting it up is going to be hard to beat, fun-wise at least, IMO haha


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Now I get some action.

I went to the Stone Center of Georgia, picked up about 100 lbs of river rock for $20(can't beat that) and brought it home:











Couple of hits with the sledge hammer and I get some good stuff to work with:












Before I block it from view, here is a shot of the completed spray bar and intakes, covered by substrate. I've got some black intake sponges coming that will cover the unpainted portion of the intakes.













And now, it begins. Here is where I ended up for a hardscape. I welcome all suggestions.




























I feel like the driftwood positioning needs tweaking.

Let me know what you think.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Maybe you could tilt that center piece of wood the small one in the back up slightly. Not much maybe an inch or 2. I love those rocks can you deliver me some...


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Hey Jeffery,

Nice progress! I am not the best at design but wondered what other plants might be going in? If you will be putting in something tall / large on the right hand side, that will change the dynamics. Nice peices of wood!

Bill


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

I've been waiting for this day since you're first post back in 11/09. I must say, well worth the wait. I love the scape! Can't wait for it to fill in.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

billb said:


> Hey Jeffery,
> 
> Nice progress! I am not the best at design but wondered what other plants might be going in? If you will be putting in something tall / large on the right hand side, that will change the dynamics. Nice peices of wood!
> 
> Bill



I haven't quite figured everything out yet. From left to right, I'm thinking of some taller crypts all behind the central rock/wood island, kind of following the general shape of the island + 6-8" of height. Then, dropping it down low and back up high for the far right side. Then a mixture of anubias, crypts, bolbitis, and java fern all as midground and covering the hardscape, and finally a strong dwarf hairgrass foregound, maybe with some c.parva thrown in, but I'm not sure about the last bit.

I had those few anubias on hand, so I stuffed 'em in. I received a shipment of plants Friday which included some crypts, the DHG, and some barclaya longifolia. Those will get thrown in, all to help cycle. I plan on picking up a lot of plants at our clubs spring auction on March 7, so the real scape will happen after that, and finally filling in some holes with selective purchases through the SnS and AB.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

londonloco said:


> I've been waiting for this day since you're first post back in 11/09. I must say, well worth the wait. I love the scape! Can't wait for it to fill in.


Thanks for the compliment!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

The tank is finally in a semi finished position. I've got all the electronics hooked up and the programs setup on the controller. Lights are installed, canopy is in good shape, co2 is pumping....and I even got some plants in there. 

This is my no means "scaped." I just put it some plants I had around and a few from a small order that came in on Friday. I plan on picking up a fair amount of plants at our club auction on March 7, and then the real scaping will happen. 
































































Here you can see the TEK fixture mounted in the canopy. For now I'm only running 2x54w of light.










I still have to figure out how/where to mount my power supply, but for now it's resting comfortably[sic] on top of the cannister filters. The wires look all spaghettied, but they are actually, mostly, all organized. Everyone has a drip loop. As soon as I mount the PS, it'll look a lot cleaner. 










Here is the mini float valve. I like to think of it as my personal flux capacitor... you know, the thing that makes time travel possible. It's lets me feel safe when I'm away(not to mention the controller cutting off power to it after an hour).













I have a 15 rpm peristaltic pump in the house, and I'm expecting another 30 rpm one to come in today. After that I need 2 gallon bottles and then I'll be plumbing in my automatic dosing setup. I was originally going to wait for a while to do this, but we're taking a big 3 week trip here in about 2 months. We'll have a house sitter, but I didn't want to make the responsible for the tank.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

To me the DW is pointing the wrong direction.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> To me the DW is pointing the wrong direction.


I think you are right. The prettiest face of the DW is what is currently exposed, so to have the DW point to the center, I'll have to scoot the whole thing over to the right. I'm doing big water changes every couple of days to help cycle the AS, so next time I drop the water down, I'll probably get in there and change things around.


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

Looking very nice. I was wondering how the float shut off was mounted and wired?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

epond83 said:


> Looking very nice. I was wondering how the float shut off was mounted and wired?


The Fishbowl innovations float switch comes with two suction cups, so it's attached to the glass inside the tank.

I then wired it in series with the refill solenoid and controller so that I can turn power off to the whole thing to prevent disaster in case the float switch fails.


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## epond83 (Feb 19, 2009)

Ok cool thanks that makes since


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

Ok, it's March 12th...where are the pics? I've been so patient!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, I've been more than remiss in my updates. Life got a little busy for a while and I was focusing on other things. 


The big items that I haven't updated on are:

*At the suggestion of a lot of people(see previous posts in this thread) I shifted the entire hardscape to the left. I like it a lot better.
*I added a ton more plants, include two Aponogetons, many crypts, and some bolbitis. I also planted a bunch of dward[sic] hairgrass. It was sold to me as E. parvula, but was E. aicicularis. 
*I added about 30 olive nerites
*Finally, and this is the big one, I bought 12(received 13) Angels off of Aquabid. They are 50% Wild Peruvian Scalare, 50% blue gene. I'll probably only keep 6 of them depending on how they pair up and how they develop, but I'm going to hold on to all of them for a few more months before I start to thin them out.


Those are the big things. I haven't really focused too much on a scape. It's very jungle-esque, partly to give time for the crypts to grow and spread and partly out of laziness. 

I then had to prepare for a 3 week vacation to Europe, so I had to make sure automation was fully up and running. Waterchanges, autodosing, co2....got it all setup, well, kind of. 2 days before we were to leave I had some issues with my macro pump, so the tank went with micros only for the trip.

After the trip, this is what it looked like:










Sorry for the bad picture, it was a quick snap before going to town with scissors. As I mentioned before, that was 3 weeks with no macros, only micros. As it turned out, I didn't know how to use my recently acquired Pinpoint pH controller as well as I assumed, so I set it up wrong and the tank went without CO2 during the trip. Not a big issue, for three reasons: the tank is relatively low light, duckweed QUICKLY took over, and I mix my micro solution with glutaraldehyde, so the tank didn't have too many problems. 

After a large LARGE trim(and duckweed removal), this is what it looked like:




























I'm having a pretty large detritus issue, but I think two things are going on. One, the filters need to be cleaned. I haven't cleaned them since I turned this thing on. Two, with no macros for 3 weeks, some of the plants struggled and lost some leaves. 

I removed all of the dwarf[sic] hairgrass. It just wasn't doing it for me. Too tall and just not the look I was going for. I haven't decided on a new foreground yet but I'm thinking about some form of lilaeopsis, probably brasiliensis.

So far I've only been on 2x54w of light for a breakin period, but I'm thinking about upping that to 4x54w of light, at least for a couple of hours a day. I'll probably definitely need to do this if I go with lilaeopsis to get a good carpet going. 

That's about it for the update. For good measure, a couple of rough Angel shots:


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## thrak76 (Aug 3, 2009)

Nice score with the Angels! Hope you get some nice pairings from it. 
I do like the scape shifted to the left. Looking forward to seeing this grow in a bit more.


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## billb (May 29, 2009)

Love the angels Jeff! How goes the tank?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yeah how's everything growing back in after the post-vacation trim?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, things are slow going. The A. ulvaceus didn't care too much for the large trim, but it was HUGE. It's doing fine, but it was unhappy there for a minute. Given that most of the tank is crypts and anubias, not much has changed. 

I ordered 7 pots of Lilaeopsis mauritiana and 2 Red Melon Swords from Sweet Aquatics. They're hanging out in the tank until Tuesday when I'll have some time to plant them.

I also upped my light. I'm still at 2x54w for 8 hours, but now I've got my other light bay(the 4x54w) coming on for a 2 hour midday burst. I started that a few days ago. So far no issues. The narrow leaf java fern and Nymphaea zenkeri really like the extra light. I'm doing this mostly to help develop the Lilaeopsis lawn once I get it all planted. The fish kind of hate me a little for the bright light, but there's plenty of big leafed stuff in there for them to hide under. 

On the fish front, the tank already had about 25-30 otos(I forget), the Angels, and a lone Dojo loach that I've had for YEARS. He's the only thing keeping this from being a full fledged SA tank. I also had 2 Red Phantom Tetras in there.

Well, one of our head honchos in the local club here manages a fish department, so he was nice enough to order some more Red Phantoms for me. I now have a total of 10 in the tank, and 2 more in the QT. I bought them in phases(I don't really have a good reason), planning to buy 10, and then another 10, but when I went back for the second round, they only had 2 remaining. Oh well, guess I'll have to breed them. 

I also have 6 Nannostomus marginatus in QT as well. 

Anyway, that's where I am now. I'll get some pictures after I plant all the laeliopsis.


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## globali (May 29, 2010)

Looks grate,
Best of luck.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, it's been long enough without an update. 

Everything's pretty much growing strong. The 2 hour midday burst is doing wonders for the crypts and narrow leaf java fern. A little gsa here and there. I'm still dialing in co2, and may decide to reduce the 6 x54w midday burst to a 4x54w midday. 

I got in those lilaeopsis pots and planted them. They're growing strong, but still a few months away from being a full carpet. Other plants are doing pretty well too.

The overall scape is start to get a little closer to the image I have in my mind. 

Current stocking is:

~30 Otos
13 Wild Scalare x Pb Angels
16 Red Phantom Tetras
5 Nannostomus marginatus
1 Dojo loach
20+ olive nerites
and I toss in about 20-30 RCS every 3-4 weeks.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

How'd I miss this tank. Awesome job Jeffrey. Love everything about this tank. lilaeopsis.... that's the newish "mini microsword" right?

Did you get a new camera for the last update pics? They look so much cleaner. Great job man.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> How'd I miss this tank. Awesome job Jeffrey. Love everything about this tank.
> 
> Did you get a new camera for the last update pics? They look so much cleaner. Great job man.



Thanks for the compliments.

Nope, no new camera, just actually decided to pay attention.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Awesome angels. The tank looks great too. Try dosing more PO4 to get rid of the gsa.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I love the variety in this tank. That aponogenton keeps catching my eye, looks awesome.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> I love the variety in this tank. That aponogenton keeps catching my eye, looks awesome.



The aponogenton crispus on the right side gives me a headache. It's huge. Actually, it's three of them, and they are all huge. I'm not sure I like it. I spread it out recently, but even if I spread it out further, I'm just not sure how I'll like it. 

However, the Aponogenton ulvaceus on the left side I love. I'm formulating a way to bring it a little more in to prominence.


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## mattrt09 (Jun 12, 2010)

those angels are awesome!


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## Bowles42 (Mar 5, 2008)

I kept an aponogenton ulvaceus in my 125 for a few months. It's a neat looking plant, but it grew faster than I could trim it.

The tank is looking good.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, figured out the GSA issue, at least in part: CO2 was empty. 

Gave me a chance to drop in my new/used 20 pounder I got a while back. 20 lb tank, half full, off of CL for $40. Awesome.


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## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

This looks really nice! You did a great job filling the space. It's something I'm always struggling with on my 105 gallon. Also liking the "tossing 20-30 RCS in per week." I take it some of them get picked off by the angels?  I added a few to mine when I had discus thinking they would be great live food but the fish wouldn't touch them and the RCS got bigger and redder than I've ever seen them. Anyhow, great job!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Spent some quality time with the tank today, got some decent fish shots:















































































































And while we're at it, somebody mind id'ing these two crypts for me?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

You have some very nice looking fish.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Digsy said:


> This looks really nice! You did a great job filling the space. It's something I'm always struggling with on my 105 gallon. Also liking the "tossing 20-30 RCS in per week." I take it some of them get picked off by the angels?  I added a few to mine when I had discus thinking they would be great live food but the fish wouldn't touch them and the RCS got bigger and redder than I've ever seen them. Anyhow, great job!


Thanks! 

Yeah, the RCS mostly end up being a nice snack. I'd love to get a colony started, but with big-and-getting-bigger angels and the dojo loach, I don't think it's gonna happen. I've got a 15g RCS breeding tank going, so I've got a constant supply, so I just keep trying!



Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> You have some very nice looking fish.


Thanks! I'm pretty happy with them. I'm really happy I was able to get some shots that really show off their color.


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## Chaos_Being (May 18, 2010)

Wow- I am seriously impressed at the amount of thought and detail that you put into the plumbing and automation of your tank (and I thought I was "bad" about over-planning things!) Great tank!

I too will probably be "tossing in" some RCS into my 55g once I get a colony going in my nano. I'm not sure if they'll survive or not, but hey, free live food if they don't :icon_mrgr


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## acropora1981 (May 30, 2010)

beautiful tank man! Wow. Gorgeous fish, and really healthy looking plants. Love the wild cross angels


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## aquaman3000 (Oct 21, 2006)

jmhart said:


> And while we're at it, somebody mind id'ing these two crypts for me?


The first appears to be Cryptocoryne walkeri var. 'Lutea' and the second is likely a variety of Cryptocoryne wendtii, but it's harder to ID since there are so many wendtii varieties and environmental coloration and growth patterns.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

A quick shot:











Not much changing, just growing. I'm still considering replacing the NL Java Fern with regular.

I've got some old 6700k and 10,000k bulbs in there right now, and they are putting out adequate PAR for me, but I've got some brand new Geissman middays and Aquafloras in a closet that I might slap on there in a few weeks, see how they look. 

One of these days I'll clean the glass, bust out the Vortex, and take the time to get some good shots.

Edit: I take that back, a few things have changed since the last FTS. I removed a whole bunch of Bolbitis. I had it, thought it might go in this tank...it didn't. I removed a bunch of Aponogetons too. 

I think my number of Otos is dwindling. I haven't seen any dead fish, I just can't find them all. I had 20+, and at any one time I can only find about 10-12. There's a lot of plant mass in there now, so that could be my problem. Who knows! I will say, next time I'm at a place that has $1 otos, I'll probably pick up another 10 or 12 of them.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Good chance the Otos are hiding from the Angels.

Are you feeding them? (The Otos, not the Angels...)


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Good chance the Otos are hiding from the Angels.
> 
> Are you feeding them? (The Otos, not the Angels...)


Yes. Zucchinni, algae wafers, and they munch on the spirulina flakes I drop in. 

I think they're just hiding too. That aponogeton in the corner always hides a few from me with all it's crooks and crannies.


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## rballi (Mar 4, 2010)

this makes me want to put angels with my discus....they look awesome


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

That tank is breath taking...I thoroughly enjoyed your journal and am humbled by the engineering you've employed...great job!


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Those are some nice angels!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Doing these jouranls is incredibly beneificial. I hardly notice how much the angels grow until I look back at pictures from a month ago. I'll have to get some more close ups. They are really filling out nicely.

I've been saying all along that I'm going to get rid of 6 of them. It'll be hard to let them go, but I think it'll be for the best. As they start to pair off, 13 in a 120g will start to be problematic.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Those Angels are sweet and the tank is looking great. Did I send you that A. ulvaceus? I sold it someone and forget who. At any rate, it was way too big for my 75g, but I do miss it. I don't like A. crispus though. Too leggy. Do sell me a baby of that Nymphae when you get one; that's a neat morph. Oh, and I think you won't be able to keep all 13 angels, unfortunately. When mine got a bit bigger than yours are now (8 in a 75g), I started seeing too much aggression. I sold half of them and things are fine now. I'd guestimate that you'll have to go down to about 8 soon, and probably not more than 3 pairs ultimately.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If I had the tankspace for them I'd be sorely tempted to take them off your hands... those are some gorgeous fish.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

macclellan said:


> Those Angels are sweet and the tank is looking great. Did I send you that A. ulvaceus? I sold it someone and forget who. At any rate, it was way too big for my 75g, but I do miss it. I don't like A. crispus though. Too leggy. Do sell me a baby of that Nymphae when you get one; that's a neat morph. Oh, and I think you won't be able to keep all 13 angels, unfortunately. When mine got a bit bigger than yours are now (8 in a 75g), I started seeing too much aggression. I sold half of them and things are fine now. I'd guestimate that you'll have to go down to about 8 soon, and probably not more than 3 pairs ultimately.


Yeah, all my Aponogetons came from you...and yes, the crispus was ultimately too much for me. I don't remember if you sent me 3, or if it divided, either way, I ended up passing all 3 on...one to Over_Stocked and the other two to people I forget. It's in his 75g now...kind of neat to follow a plant around. 

The Ulvaceus is incredible. If I ignore it for than about a week it sends up a flower. Not really a problem except the flower stalk grows like 12" a day. 

We've got a big club auction on Sept 19. If the angels (6 of them, not all of them) aren't gone by then, I'll probably put them in the auction.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Yeah, I thought I sent the ulvaceus to you but wasn't sure. Yes, the flower stalks grow insanely fast.

Those crispus would be nice in a 36" tall tank. I got them from sweetaquatics.com by the way. There are other hybrids/varieties that don't get nearly as tall and are worth giving a shot, such as the Walmart bulbs - those always stayed small for me.


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## albirdy (Jul 16, 2008)

which of the two kinds of angels do you like best?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

albirdy said:


> which of the two kinds of angels do you like best?


They are all actually the same. They are Pinoy x Wild Scalare....the blue just shows up in some more than others.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

i agree with the lutea and i think the second crypt might be C. wendti 'tropica'


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

kwheeler91 said:


> i agree with the lutea and i think the second crypt might be C. wendti 'tropica'


Thanks. Lutea is dead on, and wendti 'tropica' could be it. If that's it, then somebody shipped it as a bonus or accidentally. I ordered some wendtii 'green' and that's definitely not it.


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## born2lovefish (Dec 29, 2006)

Nice setup! Makes me miss breeding my part wild silver angelfish.


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

How about an update? This is a terrific tank in so many ways I'd like to see how it has continued to evolve. My guess is that the ulvaceous has gone dormant - I could never keep one going longer than maybe a year - but I'll bet the remaining angels continue to steal the show. Let's see how big they've gotten!


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## CAM6467 (Feb 11, 2009)

^^^ I second that motion!!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Update, huh?

Well, it's not very exciting.











That's a quick crappy cell phone pic. I'll get some better ones up maybe this weekend. I just did an annual cleaning (ahem, yes, annual :icon_redf), so the water is very cloudy. It's not cloudy normally. 

Life took a great turn since my last update. I got a new job in November of 2010, my wife got pregnant in December 2010, and we had a daughter in September of 2011. And, on top of ALL of that, my wife and I built (ourselves) a 700g garden pond in our backyard. So all of my tanks took a major backseat. 

The plumbing on this tank has never been quite right. My CO2 injection never worked like I wanted it to (the Mag 7 was just too power and pushed co2 bubbles into the tank before they were ready) and the plumbing has been a headache to prime. Point is, I moth balled the Mag 7 which meant turning off co2 injection and auto dosing. The picture you see is what that does to a tank like this 18 months later. Surprisingly, I only lost the lilaeopsis (which was probably never going to do well in this tank anyway). 

The upside is that the java fern has done great, my anubias have grown monsterous, and all the fish are pretty happy. 

My daughter is now 15 months old, on a regular schedule, and becoming much more self sufficient so that leaves more time for things like aquariums (plus its too cold to put love into my pond. 

In the coming months (hopefully more like weeks) I'll be putting some work into this tank. First I'm going to add some C. parva in the front. After that, time permitting, I'm going to redo the plumbing a bit. I want to keep all the function but add in a few key learnings after using it for a few years. Namely, I need things to be much more accessible with fewer twists and turns. I will also be removing the Mag 7 and just running the Eheims. 

All of the fish have done really well. The angels are pretty stunning in person. I'm a little sad I didn't have room for a 6 foot tank, cause it seems like they just get up to speed in formation right as they hit the 4 ft mark and have to turn around. 

In addition to that, expect an update on my ADA-60P sooner than later as well.


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## STS_1OO (Nov 28, 2012)

Looking forward to this! Its funny how needle leaf java fern (if not all types of JF) work...the more you concentrate on making them lush and full, the worse they do. The moment you stop caring for them, BOOM...beautiful lol. 

Wish more things in life were like that LOL


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

please post a pic when the water is clear later
that huge bunch of fern is amazing


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## Idrankwhat (Mar 20, 2013)

Awesome tank. A great example of properly planning your landscape (unlike my mess :icon_smil). Can't wait to watch its maturity.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well Well Well....

My how time flies as you get a little older. Since my last update, I've changed jobs, my wife and I have had ANOTHER baby, and this tank has continued to putter along. It feels like it's only been a few months since my last update...but it's been 2 years.n

Before I get into the updates, a few pictures of where we are tonight (didn't bust out the diatom filter, so patience please:tongue:








Now for some discussion. If you read my last update, you know I wasn't happy with the plumbing. Things just didn't work right, so I turned off co2 and auto dosing and just let it all go. Then I had a few bad experiences with my Eheim 2028s (loved those things for a long time, but they have one part that breaks repeatedly and easily, at $27 + shipping a pop each time), so I changed up my filters to some Eheim 2217s. I've fallen in love with these Eheim Classics over the last few years (put one on my 60-P years ago and have loved it). I have 2 Eheim 2217s running and love.

I also decided to add one of those co2 atomizers (from the auction site) inline before one of the eheims.



I also redid the organization in my stand and installed a light. If you have a big tank and don't have a light in your stand.....no, scratch that....if you dont' have a light in your stand, add one (I have one in my 60-P and don't know what I'd do with out it). 





The installed light



And finally some shots of a few of the inhabitants.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Congrats on the baby! Tank is looking great, jungle look FTW!


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## sadchevy (Jun 15, 2013)

Congrats on the family addition! Awesome tank. Looks great.


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## j-pond (Dec 18, 2008)

Very Beautuful tank, I love your angels, make me want to go back to a larger tank.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Ok. Let's resurrect this one.

So, last April I ordered two huge ole' pieces of manzanita wood from Tom Barr. After a month or more, hard to remember, I rescaped this guy. Sold off most of my huge narrow leaf java fern and a bunch of anubias too. 

I took a lot of great pictures of that rescape process too. Then, before I could post, life got in the way. A few months went by, and somehow I ended up missing all of those. So, that sucks.

Anyway, tank is mostly crypts and anubias. Kind of a mess, too. 

Fauna is down to 3 angels (had a good 5 year run on them), 4 Apisto macmasteri, and a ton of Otos. 

Everything is running great with the plumbing and the automation. The only thing I do to this tank on a regular basis is dose dry micros and feed the fish. The rest of it is entirely automated (including macros, lights, co2, water changes). It's pretty much the perfect setup for someone with a couple of kids and no time. 

Anyway, I'll try to get some pictures up soon.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

the tank is looking great!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, it's a been a long time coming:





























































As I think I've mentioned, I did a big rescape sometime last summer. Add in two big ole' pieces of manzinta from Tom Barr. Really lovely pieces. Of course, then I went and covered them up with a bunch of Anubias, but I like it and the fish do too. 

Fish are down to 3 of my angels, 4 Apisto Macmasterii, 1 Sterbai cory, and a bunch of Otos. 

I'm maybe half happy with this. I'm working on it. I have a lot of plants that I think could work great, but need more of them so I'm waiting for them to grow out and multiply. I'm really pleased with how open the tank is compared to before. The Barclaya longifolia I really love, but I just don't have the time to keep it trimmed back. I'm more or less happy with it growing the way it is cause it helps to keep too much light from hitting the Anubias. 

My next big thing is to add more livestock. I'm leaning towards a big school of cardinals and probably a big colony of RCS. 

Expect my next updat in 12 to 18 months. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

jmhart said:


> I also decided to add one of those co2 atomizers (from the auction site) inline before one of the eheims.


sorry for the late question
have you ever had any problems with air/co2 trapped inside your filter?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

ikuzo said:


> sorry for the late question
> have you ever had any problems with air/co2 trapped inside your filter?


Nope, no problems...not really. I've been injecting co2 inline since 2008 and the only thing is ill occasionally give my filters a shake and a few bubbles will come out. I don't do this regularly, will often go months without doing it.

Aside from these small bubbles, 100% diffusion. That atomizer inline before the filter is the best co2 injection method in my experience.


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

Really nice setup, congrats on keeping it going. Very natural looking. Been looking at the apistos on aquabid, where did you get those nice Macmasterii?


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

jmhart said:


> Nope, no problems...not really. I've been injecting co2 inline since 2008 and the only thing is ill occasionally give my filters a shake and a few bubbles will come out. I don't do this regularly, will often go months without doing it.
> 
> Aside from these small bubbles, 100% diffusion. That atomizer inline before the filter is the best co2 injection method in my experience.


thanks for the reply and it's nice knowing that info as i always afraid to put anythung befor my canister.

i have an inline atomizer but installed it after the canister. today i got sick of seeing tiny bubbles in my tank and put a cerges reactor after the atomizer.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Brian Mc said:


> Really nice setup, congrats on keeping it going. Very natural looking. Been looking at the apistos on aquabid, where did you get those nice Macmasterii?




I got them from my local aquarium club auction. If you have a local club I highly recommend participating.


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## ROYWS3 (Feb 1, 2014)

Glad you resurrected this. Your tank looks great no and in all of its past incarnations. Both flora and fauna are incredible!


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## Dzrtman (Mar 4, 2014)

Enjoyed your story, all the better for the periodic updates so we see the tanks phases. And you managed this while real life, like the addition of 2 children happened  Great job!


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

jmhart said:


> I got them from my local aquarium club auction. If you have a local club I highly recommend participating.


Cool thanks, I am actually an inactive member of the Atlanta club for the last uhh 15 years or so lol. Maybe I should come check it out again.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Brian Mc said:


> Cool thanks, I am actually an inactive member of the Atlanta club for the last uhh 15 years or so lol. Maybe I should come check it out again.


Well the, definitely check out the auction coming up on April 19. It's a fun event and you always land some great deals. I got about 10 of these Apisto's in two lots for about $30 total...waited until they grew and paired up and then sold off the rest and kept 4 in my 120g.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Man I love the latest iteration. It just pops to me... the way the wood runs though the plants and the long slender leaves running through it. I'm not a fan of stems, but it's hard to get things in the right places to make a natural scape without them I'm learning. I saved a pic as inspiration for my 180 Gallon


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

This tank has currently been broken down and put into storage for about 3 months. 

A few months back we decided to have the rest of our basement finished, which meant a considerable amount of construction around the location of this tank (and included painting the room this tank is in), so I had to break the entire thing to move it. 

Now that I've done it once, it'll be much easier if I ever have to do it again. I'm writing this post as a helpful guide in case anyone has the exact situation I had ever again. 

My tank sits on a tile floor. I needed to move it about 15 feet into the next room (that would be untouched during construction). I still had fish in the tank (not a lot) and I didn't want to lose my cycled filters, so instead of completely breaking it down I got it as light as possible. I drained almost all of it. Removed all the plants, rocks, and wood. Then I removed 1/3 to 1/2 of the substrate. And drained some more. That was the easy part. 

I mentally struggled to figure out how to move this think. Even with all that this sucker was still heavy. Enter brilliance and luck. The tank was on a tile floor, and that tile floor extends into the room I needed to move the tank to. So, I got two neighbors to help me lift sucker, and then put the edges down on two folded blankets. Each end of the tank was on about 4-6 layers of blanket. From that point, the thing was pretty easy to just slide into the next room. One person could have done it (the sliding). 

All of the plants got stored in rubbermaid tubs in my laundry room with lights. Fortunately, this is a tank composed mostly of low light plants, so it was easy to just put them in "hibernation" for a few months. I kept lights on them and topped of the water occasionally. 










Move updates to follow soon.


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## chale (Dec 21, 2012)

Very nice set up. I like the looks and your automation of everything.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

I've finally put this tank back together. 

I've never really liked the plumbing. I spent a lot of time thinking about the plumbing when I first set it up, but I made it overly complex. Biggest issue was all the turns. I was losing a lot of head pressure, so I really had very little flow in the tank. So, I decided to redo it. 










Supply
Same internals as before. Two tank drains, left and right, plumbed to a corner drilled hole in the tank. These feeds into 6 port manifold. The manifold feeds three Eheim Classic 2217s, and has ports for automated macros, micros, and a burp/manual drain/fill port. At present in the picture below, I only have the macro line installed. The micro line and the burp line are currently plugged off. I'm doing dry micros right now and for the immediate future. 










Filter Loop 1 

A single Eheim 2217 pumps to a substrate level spray bar. In line after the Eheim are two solenoid valves: one for drain line, one for fill line. At present I do about a 10% water change once a week. Been doing that for a few years, while dosing a modified PPS-Pro and have been pretty happy. Not a huge waste of water/ferts and the tank is happy.

In the back of the picture here you can see the green irrigation solenoid on top for the fresh water supply line, and you can see the top of a Asco Red Hat valve on bottom for controlling the drain line. 










Filter Loop 2

Two Eheim 2217s run in parallel. In line before one of them is an atomic CO2 diffuser. Love that thing. Then the two filters come back together via a manifold yee fitting and run through a single Hydor inline heater. 











I got it all plumbed in and turned on, and was immediately thrilled with how it turned out. Much better flow and circulation in the tank. Reducing all those turns from my previous plumb job has been a great thing. It has also improved how long it takes to drain this tank. The loss of head pressure to do all the turns meant it took forever to drain even 15% of the tank via the automated process. Now I can drain that in just a few minutes. 

Here it is all filled and cycling:


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

I started off by just scaping a bit with rocks and manzinita. Got this piece of wood from Tom Barr a couple of years ago. Used it in my old scape, but decide to turn it upright this time to give a more height to the scape. As I was bringing in plants from my storage area, my tank started to show signs of life:





















But she quickly exited when I started filling the tank










Initial planting was with what I had on hand: Anubias (mostly 'nana'), Barclaya longifolia, marsilea minuta, and some random crypts. 


I then ordered in some plants from aquariumplants.com. I'd gotten some tissue culture plants before form Petco, on sale I think, but I really didn't know what they were exactly. Looked into it, and decided it was worth a shot, especially since aquariumplants.com had them on sale.

I ordered some S. repens, L. hippuridoides, Crypt wentii 'brown' and 'tropica', Downoi, and Lobelia cardinalis. 




















I'm really pleased with the tissue culture plants. Once rinsed and separated out like suggested from the seller, there are really a lot of plants in here. Really got my money's worth. I''d still consider it a good deal at the for $9 price. But I'm patient, so I don't mind waiting for them to fill in over the next few weeks.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

OMG, had to laugh at the cat pics only because one of my cats would have done exactly that given the opportunity.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

man after my own heart using all those Eheims.

I love the DIY plumbing you did with everything and your hardscape looks awesome! That is a great piece of driftwood

Good luck!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

I'm going to fast forward the grow story a bit. I've been taking pictures with my iPhone, and it's just not doing it justice, so I spent some time with my D200 tonight:

This is now a month after planting the tissue culture plants




























Really nothing major to share. I've added ~50 cardinals, 12 Otos, and 2 Sterbai Cories (looking to get 8-10 more). I also tossed in about 25 red cherry shrimp from my upstairs 60-P. Everyone is doing really well. 

I've added a few more tissue cultures. Some ammania bonsai, alternanthera reineckii mini, and some Rotala 'pearl'. Now it's just a waiting game to let it all fill in. 

Things are growing so well that I'm thinking on replacing the Marsilea minuta down front with glosso. I've been using the Marsilea for years because I couldn't commit the time to really maintaining a high light thank like a good glosso carpet with require. However, with all the stems I've put in here, I'll need to keep the light up to get great colors, so might as well take a shot with glosso. 

Still thinkiing on that.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

update? stunning tank and really educational journal!


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

This is awesome!


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## Hitaiwan666 (Nov 24, 2016)

AMAZING! I love the plumbing part!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Time for an update. Photos first:





























This thing has been doing pretty well. I'm not the best aquascaper, but I can definitely grow plants. Most of the plants in here started from tissue culture last fall/early winter.

*Current Plant list:*

S. repends (left foreground)
Marsilea minuta (middle-right foreground)
Staurgoyne sp 'purple' (far right foreground)
Ludwigia mini super red
Blyxa japonica
Ammania sp 'bonsai'
Anubias nana
Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem' 
Rotala ramisoir 'Florida'
Crypt wendtii 'tropica'
alternanthera reineckii mini
Lobelia cardinalis 'small form'
Downoi (pogostemon helfeir)
Tall Crypt species (far left back, not sure of the species)
Barclaya longifolia
Limnophila hippurdoides (aka aromatica)
Ludwigia glandulosa
Rotala macrandra
Rotala rotundfolia
Rotala 'pearl'
Crypt wendtii 'brown'

*Fauna:*

Cardinal Tetras (40+)
Pristella Tetras (13)
Sterbai cories (6+)
Otocinclus (10+)
Red Cherry Shrimp

On plants, it seems like a lot, near collectoritis, but I'm trying to move this into a hybrid Dutch scape, so that number seems about on par. I'll almost certainly pull the Barclaya longifolia out. It's a nice plant, but I'm tiring of it. Might ditch the crypts and anubias sooner than later. The crypts aren't doing so well in the extremely soft acidic water in this tank. When I raise the hardness up to help the crypts out, the red plants lose some of their brilliant red colors, which is not a trade off I'm willing to make. The anubias are algae magnets. I used them in the beginning as filler because I had a to of them in the previous scape of this tank, but now I'm not sure they work in high light of this tank. The driftwood isn't the greatest placement, but I'm going to ride it out a bit longer.

*Current things I'm excited about:*

The ammania 'bonsai' was a slow starter from the tissue culture. I think I actually planted two TC cups, and all but 3-4 stems melted and died, but now it's growing strong and I'm really excited to propogate it and have a nice midground patch
I'm really excited about the color coming out of the Ludwigia glandulosa. This wasn't a tissue culture, but it was a slow starter as well. I think maybe it was emersed growth when I received it. Took several months to really get going, but now it's shooting up light a weed...a bright magenta weed. Excited to move it to a more prominent position.
The synogonanthus belem was also a slow starter. It was submersed growth when I got it, but I think it just needed to adjust to my tank. It's growing much better now and sending out babies. Pretty excited about this guy. 
Really excited about the Rotala pearl. Pretty plant. Started as TC and took time, but now quite lush. 
And I always love Limnophila aromatica. Love that plant. Been my favorite since I started the hobby. It's not showing a lot of purple right now because I just cut it majorly back 2-3 weeks ago. When it gets closer to the surface it turns deep purple. But I'm currently loving the angled growth of it. I didn't cut and replant (like I often do), instead I just cut and remove the tops (for sale) and let the bottoms grow out. The bottoms sent out 2-3 shoots each at angles and really filled the space nicely.

*Things I'm looking to change:*

Going to pull out the Barclaya. I'm just done with it. 
Going to remove some or all of the anubias
Going to remove some or all of the marsilea minuta. Great little plant, just ready to change it up. 
Need to move the AR mini. When they say mini, they mean it. It grows low and dense, so I need it to be more foreground to really enjoy it. 
Not sure the Rotala rotundfolia is needed/works in this scape. Love the way it looks when it's dense, but I think I might accomplish the same thing with the Rotala pearl.

That's about all I've got. The plumbing is still working great since I replumbed it. Great CO2 diffusion, great flow. I'm currently manually dosing all ferts. Probably will go back to auto dosing in a while, but meh. Automatic water changes have been and continue to be the most amazing thing. 1:00 a.m. every Monday morning. Drains and fills before the sun comes up. I never even see it happen. Wondeful. Only thing I have to do is change the filter on the water supply line every year or so. 

I'll post again after I rescape and make the above changes.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Great journal and thanks for sharing the pictures.

It was interesting following your journey through the years. 

The latest version is my favorite. Looks really healthy and a beautiful presentation.

You should update a little more frequently. Would like to follow along and see how things progress from here.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Let me tell you, life sure comes at your fast. Can't believe it's been 5 years since I updated this. The tank is still running, technically. Since I built this sucker I've had a bunch of kids, changed jobs a couple of times, on and on. The last time I redid this tank, I thought I was ready for more maintenance, so I loaded it up with some fast growing stem plants. Well, as happens, life happened, and I stopped trimming them back. They took over. Filled the entire surface. Killed everything underneath. 

And that really took the wind out of my sales, so this thing has just been coasting for at least 2 years. I haven't done jack. At this point there's some MTS alive, 3 olive nerites that have gotten huge, and some crypts and anubias that are hanging on for dear life. 

But as also happens, my kids are now old enough to starting to show A LOT of interest in the tank. They want fish again. So here I am again. Hopefully more updates to come in the next few weeks. I've ordered a bunch of plants and plan to replant the tank one evening next week or next weekend.

I'll post an update picture in a bit.


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## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

jmhart said:


> I stopped trimming them back. They took over. Filled the entire surface. Killed everything underneath.
> 
> And that really took the wind out of my sales,


Same. I don't have kids, but I had a tank going great last year. At some point I got busy and let it start to overgrow. I kept trying to get time to work on it. The more it went to crap, the more I dreaded having to deal with the disaster and the more it went to crap the more I dreaded dealing with it, repeat, repeat..... Eventually, I broke it down. Tank is still empty.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Now, a few pictures:


















Sometime in the last couple of years I made a a nice rock pile to add some vertical height. I’ve got some filler in there. Some cheap river rock to add mass, then seiryu stone on top.

mall that’s left of plants currently is Anubis’s and green C.Wendtii. Things that can grow with next to nothing.

The berries have enjoyed the lack of CO2. They are big, healthy and covered the tank in eggs.

So that’s where it is today.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Hey man, lots of potential, is all I can say. Looks better than my plywood tank which has mostly air in it. Times change and so do hobbies, no question.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Couple of quick pictures. Ordered in some plants and got thing started. Takes a lot of plants fill a 120g.

Plants include Lilaeopsis Mauritius in the foreground, AR mini, RotS. repens, Lobelia cardinalis up top. Bunch crypts spread around. Some Cyperus Helferi in the background behind a big clump of Anubias.

Now just let them grow and spread them out. 

Took the kids to the fish store and let them pick some fish so there are some serape tetras, white clouds, and Otos in there now along with some Red Cherry Shrimp.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

So here we are a few months later:







Not the best pictures, but have had some good growth. Going to do a small trim and move some things around today. The A. reineckii was supposed to be ‘mini’ form. There’s a certain online plant store that I really should stop ordering from because I get mislabeled stuff from them nearly every order. But alas.

Will post updates later after the trim and the water settles.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

And here’s the update after everything has settled:


























Pretty pleased with how it’s coming. Moving the A. reineckii realy made the whole tank pop a lot more. The lilaeopsis is starting to (slowly) fill in. Crypts all melted with the rescape a few months ago but are back in full force. Really digging it.

I add a TC worth of Crypt axelrodi, moved the reinecki, brought the S. repens forward to serve as a border for the lilaeposis. Now another month or two for growth and see how it does. There’s still room for growth, but I’m maxed on species. I think if I want another species, I’ll need to pull soemthing too. 

I added some Cobalt Blue Gouramis yesterday and they really look great in the tank. Super pumped. I think I’m about done with fish. That brings me up to 11 Serpae Tetras, 11 White Clouds, 5 Cobalt Blue Gouramis, and a handful of Otos. Probably get a few more Otos, but other than that the tank is about as active as I like it.


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