# green blue algae growing on sand...



## Indeed (Jan 28, 2011)

dont know alot about green blue algae but you'll need antibiotics to get rid of it, its not a real algae but a type of bacteria thus the need for antibiotics, I have no expirience with this though, hope this gets you on the right track. A picture might help figure out if it is indeed blue green algae. so please post a pic soon, unless your sure its bga.


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## sp33drhno (Jan 8, 2009)

This may help. http://www.jsctech.co.uk/theplantedtank/algae.htm


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Last resort is using antibiotics as it's bad for the 'good' bio (imo).
It doesn't stick to things very well and siphons off easily. Using air line tubing and a small straw/tube you don't need to do a huge WC, siphon what you can get and direct inject the rest.
H2O2 will kill it. 3% hydrogen peroxide. Find a syringe and stay at or below 2ml per gallon. Shut off your filter then let the tank settle for a few minutes then using the syringe squirt the H2O2 directly on it.

HTH

edit: BGA stinks really bad (nasty)


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

increase the nitrate levels and this will solve this algae issue, normally it occur tank with high light, good co2, but lack of Nitrate, make sure you add other important nutrients.


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## riddik1 (Sep 4, 2010)

BLAST.... yes its definitly blue green. so a total black out. i dont get it tho. my nitrates have been reading 20-30 and i have good water flow. i have a fluval 304 on full all the time (get rinsed once a month) and a powerhead for diffusing co2. well, there is no denying it cause i got it. would a full change of the substrate do the trick too?

edit: thanx for all the help by the way guys


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## Indeed (Jan 28, 2011)

black outs wont help its bacteria I dont think its photosynthetic. You will fail at getting rid of it without using antibiotics. I recommend using antibiotics and once its gone install a uv sterilizer. correct me if i am wrong as i am not 100% sure but from what i have read and seen this seems to me that thats the only way to really solve this issue.


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## riddik1 (Sep 4, 2010)

so.. if i dose with peroxide or antibiotic what will it do to my fish? i currently have 2 angels, 3 rams, a pleco and an algae eater. should i set up a quarantine for the fish? also, will the cyanobacteria be living in the filter? or does it die with no light?


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

riddik1 said:


> BLAST.... yes its definitly blue green. so a total black out. i dont get it tho. my nitrates have been reading 20-30 and i have good water flow. i have a fluval 304 on full all the time (get rinsed once a month) and a powerhead for diffusing co2. well, there is no denying it cause i got it. would a full change of the substrate do the trick too?
> 
> edit: thanx for all the help by the way guys


test kits does not measure the correct nitrate, my nitrate was 100+ppm off the chart and plants did not show any improvement, i start dosing recommended does of N and plants starting growing much better and algae free. don't worry extra nitrate is not going to kill anything, black out is not going to work either, its an temperory solution and you will fail at it. you can use hydrogen peroxide as mentioned above, but use it only if you have no other choice. no need to change the substrate either. 

IMO i would start adding extra nitrate to solve this issue. are you adding any N at all? if you are waiting from the nitrate to build up naturally then this will always give you wrong test results.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

riddik1 said:


> so.. if i dose with peroxide or antibiotic what will it do to my fish? i currently have 2 angels, 3 rams, a pleco and an algae eater. should i set up a quarantine for the fish? also, will the cyanobacteria be living in the filter? or does it die with no light?



do you have a picture of your tank and algae? i would like to see how it looks like and how bad it is.


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## riddik1 (Sep 4, 2010)

no, i dont have a pic... it was pretty minor for now, about 15% of the tank and i siphoned most of that off but it comes back. i am using flourish but not regularly. im not sure how much to use. do i need a fert with a higher N?


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## Indeed (Jan 28, 2011)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but there are no easy fixes, dosing excel wont work either =/ but here is a link to the rather lengthy process of getting rid of it. I have not done this and have little to no experience with blue green algae. anyways here is the link best of luck to you.

http://www.myfishtank.net/articles/blue-green-algae-article/


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

happi said:


> you can use hydrogen peroxide as mentioned above, but use it only if you have no other choice.


I'm confused by this advice. Using H2O2 is the least evasive treatment to the water column. HP burns the cell wall on the bacteria killing it and in the process breaks down becoming inert. Staying at a daily dose rate below 2ml/g is 99.9% safe by all reports from those that have used it. Fish and plants can remain in the tank safely during treatment. Daily vacuuming and spot treatment over a week's time has made this stuff disappear the few times I've seen it in the last few years. Used antibiotic treatments in the past and the cost is high for larger tanks along with the other draw backs to doing that. 

UV sterilizer use at the correct dwell rate kills it once it's drawn through the unit. Having several of these it was used also when I eliminated BGA.

Opting to use antibiotic treatments with the known effects on the biological filter and possibility of repeating the tanks cycle why waste the money? Drastic treatment for those impatient for results could still be done cheaply with HP. 3% topical hydrogen peroxide is about a $1.00/Qt.

Clean the tank and filter then treat @ 10ml/g

Treatment of 10mL per gallon is the dose used to kill algae and practically all bacteria and parasites, protozoans, etc. Established treatment at this dosage is to isolate the filter (shut it down to save your cycle bacteria) allow for circulation with a power head or air stone. 3-5 hour stand time on the treatment then do a 50% water change followed by a 25% water change after 24 hours. The filter can be restarted after the 50% water change. Delicate plants can melt but what was in the tank, be it algae or bacteria is toast.

This is the highest dosing of HP recommended by fish breeders on my other favorite website. I've used this dosing level twice to good result on scaled fish and followed the water changing recommendation.

HP has strong oxidizing properties. It is a powerful bleaching agent. The oxidizing capacity of hydrogen peroxide is so strong that it is considered a highly reactive oxygen. (Wikipedia)

Pleco, Cory and loaches can react badly to high doses of HP. Remove your fish to a separate tank and expect a cycle at 10ml/g if the filter is left running. There are tons of HP threads on the web because it's cheap and it works.


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## Granny (Feb 23, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> I'm confused by this advice. Using H2O2 is the least evasive treatment to the water column. HP burns the cell wall on the bacteria killing it and in the process breaks down becoming inert.


I can tell you I took this advice from "wkndracer* about using peroxide and that it absolutely worked and no fish were bothered by it at all. I had a massive outbreak of BGA this winter due to repeated power failures, drastic temp drops, and minimum care due to all the above and having flu at the same time.

I did exactly what he recommended, and I'm glad I did! I guess wasn't such a bad thing that I couldn't get to the LPS to get antibiotics due to ice storms. I learned something new and useful.  I should also add that I'm heavy on loaches, tetras, and cats; all sensitive fish to many meds. As long as you don't get the peroxide directly on them it doesn't bother them at all.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

I have the same issue as reddik (cyano on sand substrate/few plants, etc) and I have been using peroxide for the last few days as a general additive and directing the flow of it over the affected plants. The plants have cleared up nicely. My pool-filter sand substrate has some areas that are really thick with it, though. I had been thinking of just "capping" these areas with more sand. After finding this thread, my next step (this afternoon) will be to use a syringe and spare air line to spot treat these areas. If doing this on the substrate surface doesn't eradicate it, I plan on going _into_ the sand substrate to release the H202.

I'll try to post some before, during treatment, and after treatment pics for y'all.


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## Granny (Feb 23, 2011)

It will come back through a cap (been there tried that) because it's bacteria. 

When you get a syringe, inject it full strength right into the sand under it. I left the needle on mine to do this. 

Shoo your bottom feeders away while you do it. Just jab-squirt-move over - jab-squirt - etc until your syringe is empty. When you run out (be a bit generous in each spot) wait maybe an hour and do the same thing in the next spot with your maximum amount per gal of H202. It's kinda fun watching that stuff turn brown and die practically right before your eyes  I sneered at it and said "Take that!"

EDIT! I said: "wait maybe an hour and do the same thing in the next spot *with your maximum amount per gal of H202*."

That should have read: *UNTIL you've reached your maximum amount per gallon!*


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

Granny said:


> It will come back through a cap (been there tried that) because it's bacteria.
> 
> When you get a syringe, inject it full strength right into the sand under it. I left the needle on mine to do this.
> 
> Shoo your bottom feeders away while you do it. Just jab-squirt-move over - jab-squirt - etc until your syringe is empty. When you run out (be a bit generous in each spot) wait maybe an hour and do the same thing in the next spot with your maximum amount per gal of H202. It's kinda fun watching that stuff turn brown and die practically right before your eyes  I sneered at it and said "Take that!"


Thanks, Granny. I had originally thought it was gda, as it looks the same on my glass as the substrate. I was originally thinking, "Kill photosynthesis, kill algae." I guess the same thought is true using h202, just a different kill method...

Since I have no needles, I plan on using airline attached to the syringe. If I put it into the sand, I'll just inject it slowly as not to blow sand everywhere.

I *do* plan on some sadistic pleasure in watching it die...


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

We get outbreaks of this occasionally, sometimes enough to coat everything - no idea what triggers it. For gravel/sand - you can use a net to scoop a thin surface layer off then treat that, rinse and put it back in. I just poured boiling water on it as I mixed with a spoon.


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## Granny (Feb 23, 2011)

Buff Daddy

Thank *wkndracer*! :thumbsup: And follow his instructions. That's what I did. My tank was in dire straights when he answered me about this problem on another site. 

Everything had it on it. Some of my plants were so covered they were dying. I actually lifted some out, rinsed them, and soaked them in a big bowl with H202, again as racer described. A couple either couldn't take the H202, or they were just too far gone, but I saved most. How my fish survived all this I will never know. They must be real troopers.

Another hint from him was to watch around your flow bar or tube. It often starts in that area on plants or hardscape. The very worst of my BGA was exactly there. Believe me I watch! I double check at every WC!


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> I'm confused by this advice. Using H2O2 is the least evasive treatment to the water column. HP burns the cell wall on the bacteria killing it and in the process breaks down becoming inert. Staying at a daily dose rate below 2ml/g is 99.9% safe by all reports from those that have used it. Fish and plants can remain in the tank safely during treatment. Daily vacuuming and spot treatment over a week's time has made this stuff disappear the few times I've seen it in the last few years. Used antibiotic treatments in the past and the cost is high for larger tanks along with the other draw backs to doing that.
> 
> UV sterilizer use at the correct dwell rate kills it once it's drawn through the unit. Having several of these it was used also when I eliminated BGA.
> 
> ...


i never said dose the entire bottle of HP, i thought the person is aware of how much to use. yes i agree with you recommendation.


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## riddik1 (Sep 4, 2010)

right on! that would be great. so use a syringe with h2o2 in it and spot treat. thanx, im gonna give it a try.


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## riddik1 (Sep 4, 2010)

what about shrimp? will it kill them?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

riddik1 said:


> what about shrimp? will it kill them?


When spot treating just don't squirt it directly on the shrimp. If they are staying where you need to treat chase them away then treat the area. H2O2 dilutes very quickly into the water column. All the tiny bubbles released by the chemical reaction attracts my fish but yet to see any harmed. 

(imo) stay below 2ml/g per day when spot treating and you should be good to go.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

Does it matter if the tank lights are on or off when you spot treat?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Buff Daddy said:


> Does it matter if the tank lights are on or off when you spot treat?


Having the light on makes it easier to see the algae









(couldn't help myself sorry) lighting doesn't matter regarding treatment just allow the water time to get still after shutting the filter off before treating.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

I haven't had this algae for a long long time, when I had it, this is what I did, shut down filter, power head etc. No water movement at all...then I directly poured kno3 over it and let it sit for few minutes...then ran filter, power head. It was only like 6 inches in the front glass....done this everyday for a week tho' it is micro day(Csm+B, Fe), everything cleared up...

As wkndracer said H2o2 is also good to get rid of this nasty stuff....


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

A pharmacist friend of mine gave me 16, 250mg tablets of erythromycin this afternoon for free. I just dosed my tank with 750mg of ground-up tablets a couple of hours ago. I can't wait to see what it looks like tomorrow afternoon.


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## Nate. (Mar 8, 2011)

As a side question from this.

I've had a bit of this recently. It's not beyond control yet. Usually starts as a patch or two on the gravel then builds on the front glass a bit. It's easy to remove.

I'm looking though at changing my substrate totally (nothing to do with the green mess, more to do with the plants)

How will this affect it? Will it help eliminate it along with a potentially large water (50%) change and general clean of the tank when I do change the substrate?


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## Granny (Feb 23, 2011)

I'd tank treat and then spot treat with peroxide every speck of it I could find before I changed the substrate. The less bacteria floating around in your tank, the better, I'm thinking. Just really be careful to keep the fish away from where you're putting it, especially cats, otos, loaches, and tetras. I wouldn't let any of mine get close. I had both hands in the tank, squirting with one and shooing away fish with the other.

It is easy to remove the slimy stinky stuff from glass but that doesn't stop it even a little bit.


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## Nate. (Mar 8, 2011)

Peroxide?


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Buff Daddy said:


> A pharmacist friend of mine gave me 16, 250mg tablets of erythromycin this afternoon for free. I just dosed my tank with 750mg of ground-up tablets a couple of hours ago. I can't wait to see what it looks like tomorrow afternoon.


Dude, you should have taken Before and after picture of treatment to see the changes...Guess I am late to post..




Nate. said:


> As a side question from this.
> 
> I've had a bit of this recently. It's not beyond control yet. Usually starts as a patch or two on the gravel then builds on the front glass a bit. It's easy to remove.
> 
> ...


I ain't getting you mate but its a bacteria...Of course clean water is good for plants, eyes, fish etc..shoot H2O2 with needle syringe (like the one use to refill cartridge) directly in affected area and watch what happens...that green thing will immediately turns to ash... 
Further read here


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## Nate. (Mar 8, 2011)

Right, lets get this right. I may sound like i'm being stupid here, but based in the UK as opposed to most of you based in the US peroxide over here is bleach.

That can't be right? Put bleach in the tank?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Bleach here is chlorine bleach (toxic).
Hydrogen Peroxide works great kept to the proper levels.


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## Nate. (Mar 8, 2011)

Having had a look around that makes more sense.

I'll take a look into that when I come to think about changing some stuff in there.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

Nate. said:


> Right, lets get this right. I may sound like i'm being stupid here, but based in the UK as opposed to most of you based in the US peroxide over here is bleach.
> 
> That can't be right? Put bleach in the tank?


^^What wkndracer says are the facts: Bleach in the US is sodium hypochlorite (5.25%). Hydrogen peroxide in the US is H202, at usually 3%. 

When I was a teen back in the 70's, we did use H202 to "bleach" our hair, as a "summer, beach, surfer dude, groovy" kind of thing.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Nate. said:


> Having had a look around that makes more sense.
> 
> I'll take a look into that when I come to think about changing some stuff in there.


This might help


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## Nate. (Mar 8, 2011)

Cool.

So a small amount of this on the affected area will kill it off?

Looking at changing the substrate anyway, good clean up and using this stuff on the bad areas. When I change the substrate i'll probably do a 50% water change too and i'll be taking the fish and plants out to do all this so they shouldn't be effected to me.

Did I read right it's best to dip plants and wood to kill this stuff off prior to putting them back? Currently i've only got some anubias, java fern and vallis. Will these be ok?

Just loooking at getting rid of this as best I can while i'm changing stuff around as it seems a good time to really sort it out. It's not a huge issue with it covering everything and I seem to have it somewhat under control because it's not going mad in there.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

HP threads I've linked.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/80298-h202-hydrogen-peroxide-treatment-tips.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/88486-odd-h2o2.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/111545-h2o2-dip-thread.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...427-quick-question-about-peroxide-dosing.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/123747-hydrogen-peroxide.html

probably more than you want to know LOL

HTH


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

Nate. said:


> Cool.
> 
> So a small amount of this on the affected area will kill it off?


It's pretty cool to inject 5ml of h202 into a slimy sheet of gba... When the h202 starts oxidizing, the slime bubbles into oblivion.

It's also more cost effective in comparison to using erythromycin, and gives you pinpoint accuracy via use of a syringe.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Buff Daddy said:


> It's also more cost effective in comparison to using erythromycin, and gives you pinpoint accuracy via use of a syringe.


Whats your progress? Lets see some picture if you can get 1.


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## anh (Jul 20, 2009)

i use Hydrogen peroxide on my BGA and it got rid of it overnight.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

Joraan said:


> Whats your progress? Lets see some picture if you can get 1.


The "carpet" is gone but there are a few places where it is still evident under the surface. I've dosed the tank with 750mg - 1000mg of EM daily since late last week and did a major water change where I did a vacuum of the substrate surface. I'm going to hit it one more time this afternoon with ~1500mg as a final bomb. I'll dose h202 with a syringe in the small areas as I find them over the next few days.

Oh yeah, I've had no problems with my tank inhabitants and I also have a nana blooming.

I'll post something tonight, but it will be meaningless without a before pic.


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## TriniGuy (Jan 27, 2009)

I have the same issue in my tank, BGA. this may sound like a stupid question. So I would need to dose H2O2 at 2ml/g. If I have 72 gallons, that means I need to dose 144ml of H2O2? That seems like a lot. Or do we mean 2ml maximum dosage? Thanks in advance.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

TriniGuy said:


> I have the same issue in my tank, BGA. this may sound like a stupid question. So I would need to dose H2O2 at 2ml/g. If I have 72 gallons, that means I need to dose 144ml of H2O2? That seems like a lot. Or do we mean 2ml maximum dosage? Thanks in advance.


~144ml would be the maximum that you would want to use at any one time. As you are spot treating, just keep count of how many syringes of h202 you use and multiply by the volume of the syringe. Given a 5ml syringe (easy to come by) about 28-30 syringes at one time would be the max you would do. 

Yeah, you could dump 144ml in to your tank as a major "nonspecific" dose. I wouldn't do it with inverts in the tank, though. And it can wipe out your fish by burning their gills, especially if you pour it over them. If you use the filter flow to direct the solution over plants/rock with slime, though, you can wipe out a bunch of BGA at once. H202 is cheap...


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## Mgiorgi1221 (Mar 23, 2011)

So HP won't harm any plants or fish?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

There is a bunch of dosage advice in the links posted above too.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

Mgiorgi1221 said:


> So HP won't harm any plants or fish?


Like most "additives," h202 can hurt fish and inverts, and there are plants such as anacharis (egeria densa) that it will "melt." If you use it, there are risks. Read everything you can find on it and try to know what you are doing, before you use it.

Experience is a wonderful teacher, but the lessons are sometimes painful.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Buff Daddy said:


> I'll post something tonight, but it will be meaningless without a before pic.


Where is it????


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## Nate. (Mar 8, 2011)

Well other than a good clean and making sure my water spec is ok i've done nothing to treat this so far and 10 days after my last water change there's barely even a trace of it if anything at all. I'm going to hold off doing anything major at the moment as I seem to be on top of it.


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## farmhand (Jun 25, 2009)

I did a treatment using H2O2 and it knocked down the algae. The only plant bothered were some crypts that melted. But they are coming back.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

Joraan said:


> Where is it????


Life has gotten in the way, several times... but I have had time to find some "before" pics to compare with current conditions.

This is from 2/23:









It got much worse by the second week of March. The fissidens on the stone on the left got very slimy, as did most of the large stone. You can also see the cyano beginning along the surface at the glass and the beginnings of the "carpet" in this photo.

Today:









Much less slimy...


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Looks like you have it figured out.
Looking WAY better.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Nice~


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