# 75 gallon Apisto tank residents



## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

I recently moved and none of my fish survived. Im pretty bummed about it. I downsized to a single 75 gallon tank that is pretty heavily planted with lots of driftwood. I love Bolivian Rams and Apisto's so maybe a combination? I don't want to set up breeding tanks, but if I could have a community that may allow the survival of some of their fry that would be awesome.

My tap PH is about 7.4
Temp is 72-76*
Filtered by 2 AC 70's and a Rena XP3
Id like some suggestions on inhabitants. I need a hardy species. Maybe Caucatoides? How many? Could I do some Bolivian Rams and some Apisto's? I love Pictus cats, but I know they will eat the fry so they wont work. I like Rainbowfish so maybe a group of Dwarf Neons? 
The only thing I have to have is the Bolivian Rams and / or Apisto's


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

Sorry to hear that your fish didn't make the move.
You can probably do your Bolivians and a couple pairs or trios of Apistos in that size tank as long as their body shapes are different.
If you want any fry to survive leave out any tetras as they are great fry predaters.
Maybe a school of pencilfish would work.
Good luck !


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Its going to be a while before I stock the tank to give the plants a chance to root and recover from the trip. At least 6 weeks Im thinking. Im also getting a colony of RCS started in there.
Im thinking I want Caucatoides primarily... Maybe 3 pairs? Maybe also 1 pair of Bolivian Rams... 
Some Nerite Snail, Assassin Snails, Amano shrimp, Oto's... I'll slowly add these over the next month or so and allow then an opportunity to get situated.
Ive had Cories and I like them, but I would need one of the smaller ones and I would also like them to breed. My emerald ones did and it was really rewarding
Ive always wanted the Syno Pertricola (sp?) they are small, but Im unsure as to how they would interact with fry...
Ive had most of the Pleco's and Im not really wanting another in this tank
Im dying for opinions and recommendations


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

Once you add Caucatoides your RCS population will be decimated.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Culprit said:


> Once you add Caucatoides your RCS population will be decimated.


I have a tremendous RCS population. It has lasted and increased over the last 5 years sharing a tank with Angelfish, 4 Bolivian Rams, 12 Cories, and a healthy Rainbow fish population. I can move a driftwood log and it looks like a Fire Ant pile... 
There is really no way for them to keep up with the population at this point, but thank you for mentioning as that is usually the case

Bump: Thus far I am hoping for two Trios of Caucatoides (1 male, 2 female) and hopefully a pair of Bolivian Rams. There are ample caves and pretty good planting so hopefully some fry can make it.
In addition I was thinking maybe 6-8 Trilineatus Cories, 6 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish, and some Amano shrimp and Assassin snails along with my healthy population of Ramshorn snails. Id also like some Nerite snails and 5-6 Otos... maybe


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm interested in keeping caucatoides & boliivians together. Got one male and two female
caucatoides in 75 gallon right now have you kept the two together before? I would like to try that combo to.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Clear Water said:


> I'm interested in keeping caucatoides & boliivians together. Got one male and two female
> caucatoides in 75 gallon right now have you kept the two together before? I would like to try that combo to.


I haven't kept Bolivian Rams with Apistos, but I've kept them with alot of other fish and they are awesome community fish. I think they would do fine. I'm hoping for two trios of Apisto's 
and a pair of Bolivian Rams


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

I keep both now and in a 48g. I have a ram pair and apisto cac pair. The apisto's are kings of the tank, the rams are chickens compared to them. That being said, I wouldn't just start with 2 trio's of apistos. I'd go with one trio and one bolivian pair. See where they make their territories and decide if you think you can fit another trio. I think the bottom might be a bit crowded for 2 trios, but that's my opinion. You may be able to make it work. 

Generally speaking mine all got along, and still do for the most part. The apistos recently started breeding though and have become much more territorial. They claim almost the whole tank.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

bsantucci said:


> I keep both now and in a 48g. I have a ram pair and apisto cac pair. The apisto's are kings of the tank, the rams are chickens compared to them. That being said, I wouldn't just start with 2 trio's of apistos. I'd go with one trio and one bolivian pair. See where they make their territories and decide if you think you can fit another trio. I think the bottom might be a bit crowded for 2 trios, but that's my opinion. You may be able to make it work.
> 
> Generally speaking mine all got along, and still do for the most part. The apistos recently started breeding though and have become much more territorial. They claim almost the whole tank.


Wow really? I can start with just a pair of Apisto's and some Cories and Dwarf Neon Rainbows I guess... Are they active roaming the tank and such or do they hide a lot? I loved how my Bolivians would greet me at the glass and do a little dance off to convince me to feed them. Im looking for a similarly charismatic species. Have you had any breeding success? Id love to have some fry and siblings grow up in the tank.
Is your 48 gallon a three foot tank or four foot tank?
Any pics of your Apisto's youd care to share?


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

The Dude said:


> Wow really? I can start with just a pair of Apisto's and some Cories and Dwarf Neon Rainbows I guess... Are they active roaming the tank and such or do they hide a lot? I loved how my Bolivians would greet me at the glass and do a little dance off to convince me to feed them. Im looking for a similarly charismatic species. Have you had any breeding success? Id love to have some fry and siblings grow up in the tank.
> Is your 48 gallon a three foot tank or four foot tank?
> Any pics of your Apisto's youd care to share?


Sure can. My apisto's are never hiding. My male comes to the front when I am there and chomps at the glass. He's insane to be honest haha. The female is always at guard like a sentry too over her cave.

Here's my male when I got him as a juvi









This is his girl as a juvi









Here is the male all grown up









And his girl grown up guarding her cave










Here's my male when I got him as a juvi.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Man they are gorgeous and your tank looks awesome. What other inhabitants do you have in there?


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

The Dude said:


> Man they are gorgeous and your tank looks awesome. What other inhabitants do you have in there?


Thanks! What don't I have haha. It's a true community. The other ram pair is in there. 20 ember tetras. A shoal of 5 bronze cories. 3 siamese algae eaters. 2 Bumble bee gobies. 2 peacock gudgeons and 5 guppies for my wife haha. Oh 4 giant Amanos too. I think that covers it all!


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

Just to chime in here, bsantucci is correct. I would go so far as to say start with 1 pair not trio, and the rams, and see how things go. To give you an idea, I have a 46 bowfront (floor space is 3' x 2') this tank is to small for my two males to get along in, and that is without a female at all. I believe a 75 is still only 4' long(not 100% on this as I rarely look at gallons, only floor space as I pretty much only keep apistos and dither fish for them), and I seriously doubt it could house 2 trios and rams. I have my doubts about just 2 trios.

In all honesty that many dwarf cichlids in there detracts from their beauty to me. Part of the wonder of these fish is having them explore their whole tank and how interesting their personalities can be. Each of my fish is unique. And keeping them in tanks with other dwarf cichlids usually, to me, makes them lose something.

You may find after getting only a pair, that you were happy you did.

These fish can be highly territorial, and while it is possible to have many apistos in a single medium sized tank, I would not recommend it unless you want to start talking about biotopes and a tank specifically designed to house an apisto colony I recommend starting slow and working up. For someone only beginning to keep this fish, it is the best choice.


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

That's a beautiful pair of orange flash cacs bsantucci !

Dude I think ur best bet would be to add both trios at the same time otherwise the trio u add after might have a hard time establishihg territories since the 1st trio will have thiers established.
If it`s heavily planted and line of sights are blocked u should have no problems.
I think ur tank is big enough for 2 trios.
With 2 trios u`ll get the full effect of their behavior even maybe witness sneaker males at work.
Even though the dominant male will probably be the 1 to spawn with all the females ha!!! Lucky fish.

Bump: Just saw Erty`s post and u can see theres different opinions and there probably all good.
It just depends on what u want to do with ur tank.
I`ve always liked stretching the limits lol
Good luck with ur tank !


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

I guess given the nature of the fish It would be best to start out with a single pair or trio (provided I can get 2 females and a male). 
As Im hoping to see breeding I don't want to overcrowd or worse have a bullied unhappy fish. I need peace in my tanks. 
Any advice as to how I should add the inhabitants? Im pretty sure that I will add the Amano's, Nerites, and Oto's first.
I can do the Cory's, Neon Rainbows, and Apisto's at the same time. The tank is fully cycled so no issues with adding those fish all at once. Any issues with who should be added when?


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

So Im dead set on the Caucatoides and a pair or trio. Prior to adding them I want to get the RCS population into the triple digits. 6 Otos, 6 Horned Nerites, maybe 4 or 5 large Amanos. Then Ill add the Sterbai corys maybe 6-8. Im considering options with the dwarf neon rainbows. Id like something that sticks together and is energetic, but could also breed. Ive always liked the look and easy breeding of emperor tetras, but Ive never had them. I don't want anything that would make fry raising for the apisto's difficult. 
Any suggestions?


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

Just a FYI 
Emperor tetras are great fry hunters as are most tetras.
I dont know anything about dwarf neon rainbows and there behavior.
I had a colony of about 100 or so RCS that a pair of Apistogramma Viejita red neck totally eradicated in a 29g heavily planted tank in about 3-4 weeks.
It was kinda neat watching them hunt those shrimp down.
They never bothered my Amanos though.


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

Most tetra are excellent fry hunters. They are fast and school and it will be hard to stop them. If you want schooling fish that will not eat fry you should look at pencil fish as most experienced apisto keepers use them as dithers in breeding setups. I personally use hatchetfish and celestial pearl danios. The rainbows I imagine would also be a bad choice I believe if you want to raise the fry as they are very active fish, and very very fast. I don't have experience with em but it's prob not so good an idea.

If you are looking for somewhere to buy your apistos I breed and sell mine, and finally have my website running, although it is not complete. I am growing out some fry right now, but they are only a few days old. You can check out my website at www.thecichlidgarden.com or pm me for more info, I have many pictures posted on my facebook, instagram, and a few youtube videos up as well.

As for the 2 trios bringing out natural behavior that culprit mentioned I still advise against it. while a sneaker male is a natural behavior, it is brought on by a young male being bullied and stressed to the point of having to act like a female to avoid death. It may be natural, but it is normally a behavior reserved for a small male stuck in a tiny pool of water during a drought, and it is his only chance at survival. Not something you want to emulate in your tank I would think. While pushing boundaries can be good at times, I believe it is best to attempt these types of things in a tank specifically designed to emulate their habitat. Fallen leaf liter and very fine sand. Not in a show tank, where you could never give them near as many hiding locations without sacrificing asthetics.


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## iamtechno (Sep 23, 2013)

I also had a number of tanks with large numbers of Cherry and Malayan shrimp and in almost every tank they were in the Apisto's destroyed them. The shrimp were fine with Angels and all kinds of other fish but most of my Apisto's did not tolerate them at all. Also if you're deadseat on pair's or trio's or Cacatuoides, I've got some Triple Reds ready right now among some others.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Man that's a bit of a bummer about the shrimp. These guys have done well with all kinds of other fish, but Ive never had apisto's. Im going to have to set up my 11 gallon and try to transfer as many as I can. Ill definitely hit you guys up when Im ready to pick some up. Possibly next week


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## leemacnyc (Dec 28, 2005)

bsantucci said:


> Here's my male when I got him as a juvi


Gorgeous bsan!


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

leemacnyc said:


> Gorgeous bsan!


Thanks leemacnyc! 

On the shrimp note, mine decimated 40 ghost shrimp in like 2 days with help from my male Ram. Amano's are definitely fine if they are larger.


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

I have some Rcs with my apistos. Oddly my males only eat the young shrimp where my females will eat any. Either way my tank does still have a lot of rcs they just hide a lot.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

bsantucci said:


> Thanks leemacnyc!
> 
> On the shrimp note, mine decimated 40 ghost shrimp in like 2 days with help from my male Ram. Amano's are definitely fine if they are larger.


What is your Apisto? Double Red, Triple Red, Super Red??? It is stunning


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

The Dude said:


> What is your Apisto? Double Red, Triple Red, Super Red??? It is stunning


Thanks! It was advertised as a Sunburst, but in my opinion it's just a really bright Orange Flash.

I got it from Ted Judy along with his pair. The paired immediately once they were mature too, really great fish. 

I had a Triple Red pair previously from Atlantis, but they were not nearly the quality that Ted's are. Atlantis' fish were shy and timid, hid in the plants most of the time.


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

Here is a pic of my big male, and a very blurry image of his son. The son just spawned for me on Saturday =D


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

ErtyJr said:


> Here is a pic of my big male, and a very blurry image of his son. The son just spawned for me on Saturday =D


Man you guys have some amazing fish


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

The Dude said:


> ErtyJr said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a pic of my big male, and a very blurry image of his son. The son just spawned for me on Saturday =D
> ...


I have many more pics on my facebook page at www.facebook.com/thecichlidgarden don't want to flood your page with pics. You can also see a great video of the son(Nitro) and his girlfriend (Gen) when they first met last week On my instagram at www.instagram.com/thecichlidgarden
The picture of nitro does not do him justice. There is also tons of good pics of Ammo (the dad) & Nia (Mom) on both those as well. Lol I just have tons of pics, I had to load all my pics and videos off my phone to my computer over the weekend because all 25 gigs on my phone were taken!

What can I say, I truly love my apistos!


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

So.... anybody have any Caucatoides ready?? I'm really wanting 2 or 3 and the tank is ready to go. Even my go to local place has had difficulty. I really don't want to give in and do something else


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

I've got 5 Pandas (they are my new favorites) and some guppy fry. The guppys are the turquoise ones so they'll add a nice contrast and serve as a snack for who ever


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

Here is a pic of mommy and the babies and one of the proud papa =D


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

Beautiful male,love that finnage !


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks! His finnage is nice but he's still a baby! Maybe 6 months old tops. It's still growing more everyday!


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

So I've got a pair of Gold Apisto Caucatoides coming. I'm pretty excited. I manged to stick to my original stocking plan. So far I only have 5 panda corydoras, a few turquoise guppies (I love the colors and they add contrast), maybe 50 cherry shrimp, ramshorn and assassin snails. I may add some Otos and Amano Shrimp for extra clean up, but decided against the Nerite due to the egg laying all over the place. I won't be stocking anything that could interfere with the Apistos raising fry. I'll get some pics of them and the tank when they get here


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Both Apisto's were DOA. The seller is making me eat shipping cost... which the seller chose the shipping method.... and now I have to pay for overnight in addition to eating the original shipping cost of $20


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

Lol sounds like apistodave.

If you didn't want to wait you should have asked if I knew where you could get some now. I try to sell my own apistos first and foremost, but since I didn't have any at the time I would have helped you find some =D


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## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

That sux dude !
Maybe u should try something more local to you like http://www.floridatropicalfishdirect.com/5152/21301.html


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

ErtyJr said:


> Lol sounds like apistodave.
> 
> If you didn't want to wait you should have asked if I knew where you could get some now. I try to sell my own apistos first and foremost, but since I didn't have any at the time I would have helped you find some =D


It is. I hope he makes it right. Still hasn't responded to my emails


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

all I can say about him is he is a dickhead. I wish I had known you were going to go through him I would have warned you.

He has nice fish, but he is extremly difficult to deal with.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Culprit said:


> That sux dude !
> Maybe u should try something more local to you like http://www.floridatropicalfishdirect.com/5152/21301.html


Yes I should have. Fish die in transport sometimes and he hasn't responded to me yet so I have no reason to doubt that this will be handled amicably.
although the fish were dead, the colors on the male were very impressive...


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Good news. He contacted me today and offered a full refund to include shipping. It would be an additional $20 to overnight them. Sounds pretty straight to me. That's good business and his fish aside From being dead were stunning.


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## furnfins (Dec 30, 2011)

Beautiful fish! I haven't had apisto's but I've had bolivians and I love them too. They keep to themselves, never started any problems in my tank. I had 6 in a 75g. I saw you mentions sun. petricola. I had 3 and they will eat fry, snails and whatever is small enough for them to fit in their mouths, and they can be pretty shy. However they are pretty and I really liked having them.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Well by chance I found a nice LFS that is going to locate some Apisto Caucatoides for me. they had some beautiful Congo Tetras that they had already quarantined for 3 weeks that were in amazing shape and about 2". I bought all 4. They are going to order another 4 and I will purchase 2-4 more once they make it past Quarantine. I also fell in love with a lonely Bolivian Ram and he also came home with me. I'm undecided as to whether he will stay in here with the Caucatoides. I was given the OK for a full Amazon themed 150 gal in the new house. I'm going to do 2 large canisters and an AC110. I won't be setting up the 150 for several weeks. Not until I'm done with this 75 gallon. It's really coming along. I've planted a couple large portions of Anubias along the vertical driftwood, but here it is about a week ago


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

I'm glad everything worked out well for ya =D


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