# Asian Biotope: Sand vs. Gravel



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I want my biotope to be as natural as it can be. I already figured out the plants(Crypts, Aponogeton, Hygro, Riccia, Java Moss, maybe Java Fern) and water parameters(ph: 5.5-6.5, dKH: 4*, dGH: 4*, temperature: 27-29* C). I need to figure out what would be better for the "enviroment" Im creating. Sand is more natural looking for a Black Water River of South East Asia but theres also the gravel on the banks of the river so any help will be appreciated. I was reading the sand is not a great substrate to use with plants as it compacts. 

Thanks,
James

EDIT: 
As far as my current gravel and flourite that will be used for my friends tank. I also found this but this makes it even more confusing.



Wet Web Media said:


> Now, add some gravel to create a bank, building up a back corner to resemble a bend and terracing it (to make it stay in place) with small rocks and big pebbles. The base of the tank should be littered with small rocks and big pebbles, and trust me, you'll need more of them then you think you will! Next, cover the gravel, pebbles, and rest of the tank with some silver sand. This mimics the look of sand deposited naturally in the river, so brush off the sand that collects on very top of the rocks. Next, position a large piece of bogwood or sinking driftwood so that it resembles an exposed root in the riverbed. Place some pebbles at the base of the wood and across the entire tank. Next, plant your plants in the pattern we discussed above.


Biotopes Part 1, Wet Web Media


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## mlpzaq52 (Oct 21, 2006)

i'd say use very coarse sand. it wont compact as much as other kinds of sand, and with pebbles waste will get caught and will rot.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay thanks much. I was thinking there was something up with why they would use pebbles. Maybe as an accent or something. But thanks!

Would this kind of sand work:

Moonlight White Sand

Its the moonlight white snad. I can get that across the street but was wondering if anyone had any experience with it and having plants.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Use ADA decorative sand for the foreground. Perfectly white sand looks really unnatural.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

mrbelvedere said:


> Use ADA decorative sand for the foreground. Perfectly white sand looks really unnatural.


I can get either the 14 lb bag of sarawak sand(which imitates the malaysian sand I believe) for $33.32 including shipping or an 8 lb bag for 21.75. I would like to maintain one substrate across the surface so would the 14 lb be better? Im really trying to keep this as much on a budget as I can and I was thinking that the pool sand, or the black tahitian moon sand, or the moonlight white sand would be more cost effective.


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

Jameson let me know if you want regular sand, I know where to get it-- small bags for under 2 bucks!!!!:hihi:


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## Dawn Haze (Feb 27, 2007)

My pool filter sand is called silver sand. I went looking for pool filter sand at the local store and they gave me about 5 50lbs bags that had split. They were glad to see it go. You might check it out.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*Yoko*- Haha, I found this very coarse sand that is like 1.99 but they are like 1 lb bags or so. What color does it come in. There are many "regular sands". There is like australian red sand, charcoal grey sand(found in like europe or something like that), and white sand. I been reading lol.

*Dawn Haze*-What kind of local store? Like home depot, osh, walmart?lol. I'll be interested in trying to find some free sand like that.


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## Dawn Haze (Feb 27, 2007)

It was just a pool and spa supply store. In Arizona they are in every other strip mall.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Ok. I was just wondering what kind of store maybe I can go to the local pool store and see whats available


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

It's like.... sand...... haha

"Horticulture" Sand from Capitol Nursery on Freeport Blvd

As seen HERE, with your plants :angel: 










My inbox has room now foo!!


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

yoko said:


> It's like.... sand...... haha
> 
> "Horticulture" Sand from Capitol Nursery on Freeport Blvd
> 
> ...


Thats the kind of sand they have at OSH. Do you know if its safe with fish? I got to search for this on the web. And the Anacharis seems to be living....and you had your doubts.

P.S. yoko-"yoko has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space." 

Clear your inboxroud:


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## monkeygills (Apr 5, 2007)

*fine sand that works*

I buy fine sand from Ocean Aquarium on Cedar alley off Van Ness in San Francisco. 20 lbs is $10 which is not as cheap as play sand, but the owner of the store, Justin, has experimented with a lot of sand and found that this one works. He says he tried play sand and it turned black and stinky within weeks. I think the secret to his sand it is obviously sifted so the grains are all one size, whereas play sand has dust in it. This sand is easy to work with, does not affect water parameters, holds the tiniest plant clippings, keeps the water clear. Another reason I like it is that the grains are so small that if some BBA grows on a grain of it you can gravel vac it up. (Not so easy on flourite!) 

If you are coming into SF from Sacramento sometime you must see this amazing little store. It's a great place to get unusual fish and plants.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

monkeygills said:


> I buy fine sand from Ocean Aquarium on Cedar alley off Van Ness in San Francisco. 20 lbs is $10 which is not as cheap as play sand, but the owner of the store, Justin, has experimented with a lot of sand and found that this one works. He says he tried play sand and it turned black and stinky within weeks. I think the secret to his sand it is obviously sifted so the grains are all one size, whereas play sand has dust in it. This sand is easy to work with, does not affect water parameters, holds the tiniest plant clippings, keeps the water clear. Another reason I like it is that the grains are so small that if some BBA grows on a grain of it you can gravel vac it up. (Not so easy on flourite!)
> 
> If you are coming into SF from Sacramento sometime you must see this amazing little store. It's a great place to get unusual fish and plants.


This summer may be a time for me to go. My mom may take us down there. Thanks for the tip!


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Instead of starting a new thread I was wondering what would be a natural substrate for a North American Biotope? I was thinking sand as well but dont know.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

James, I would stay away from super fine sands as they will make a mess. I used a 50# bag of "play sand" from Home Depot (~$4.50) once and it was ok. The consistency was somewhat course, but still small enough grains to not appear that way. It took on a whiteish-yellowish color in the tank. Probably more towards the yellowish side even. It's good for a budget, but there's certainly better options. 
Has anyone tried silica/pool filter sand? That's another that people seem to like. Cichlid folks, that is.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah I heard that. I was looking at some pics of Blackwater rivers and the soil/sand is like redish orange  so I was thinking sarawak sand by ADA(the decorative sand) will work but that might be too compact.


Oh and Ryan, delete some PM's :smile:


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## monkeygills (Apr 5, 2007)

that sarawak sand is pretty. Get some Malaysian trumpet snails and maybe dig around occaisionally with a chopstick if you are worried about compaction.
Love to see pics of what you do....


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Nice idea Cali James. 

You should get a kuhli loach or two in there! One of my favorite Asians (well, Killies, and dwarf puffers are pretty high on that list too!).

regards,
joel


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

monkeygills said:


> that sarawak sand is pretty. Get some Malaysian trumpet snails and maybe dig around occaisionally with a chopstick if you are worried about compaction.
> Love to see pics of what you do....


Got the Malaysian Trumpet Snails. They are cool and my betta watches where they go. I would defiitely do it once I get the money to buy some but Im picking up the other nesseceaties like the Wood, Plants, stones, and the money.



macclellan said:


> Nice idea Cali James.
> 
> You should get a kuhli loach or two in there! One of my favorite Asians (well, Killies, and dwarf puffers are pretty high on that list too!).
> 
> ...


Thanks. I want Kuhli Loaches but I cant find them . I thought you were suppose to keep three or more. Hmm, lots to do before I get fish .


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

petsmart here in TN has tons of them...$1.49 each.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

macclellan said:


> petsmart here in TN has tons of them...$1.49 each.


Just rub it in  . They will make a great addition but that also means I need to research their biotope and really try to make the two work together. Im very determined for this natural outcome lol.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

sorry. lol. didn't mean to rub it in. I just thought that your Petsmart would have them too. I guess not all big box stores are created equal.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

macclellan said:


> sorry. lol. didn't mean to rub it in. I just thought that your Petsmart would have them too. I guess not all big box stores are created equal.


LOL, it koo. The most recent fish they got in was probably a dinosaur bichir. But then never get any new fish and they never request new fish on the list.


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

James From Cali said:


> Got the Malaysian Trumpet Snails. They are cool ...


James, are those the snails they got at Petsmart????

They just started carrying those--- and live bamboo, too... right???


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

The long ones? yeah they are those free snails. The one across the street has live 6 bowls full of bamboo selling for $5 a piece.


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

Huh?

I saw BIG snails at Petsmart...


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

yoko said:


> Huh?
> 
> I saw BIG snails at Petsmart...


This is what I got:
Malaysian Trumpet Snails

These are the big ones:
Apple Snail


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## yoko (Mar 16, 2007)

OoOo how big are the Malay Snails??? I need some later on.. but how big are they and how big are their dookies??? :icon_mrgr and where did you get yours??:icon_mrgr


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## rain- (Mar 29, 2004)

Sand, even fine sand, is a nice substrate for a planted tank, no matter what people say. If you are aware of the things you need to be doing, it won't be a mess, you just need to know what you are doing. Of course you can mess up any kind of substrate, even ADA Aquasoil or plain gravel if you aren't using it right. I've been using sand blasting sand as the only substrate for uhm, I don't remember anymore, 7-10 years with success. I've had ADA Aquasoil only for few months and I've managed well without any other kind of substrate before that. 

You need to use bottom ferts since the sand doesn't let much ferts or poop in, you need to stir the sand sometimes (not that often actually) and that's about it. I don't know about the grain sizes you guys have there, but the ones I've used are 0,1-0,6 and 0,5-1,2 millimetres, I prefer the finer one. It feels nice to touch and looks pretty.

Well, I don't have anything new to say, just repeating the same stuff others have said.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

yoko said:


> OoOo how big are the Malay Snails??? I need some later on.. but how big are they and how big are their dookies??? :icon_mrgr and where did you get yours??:icon_mrgr


Petsmart gives them away free cause they think they are pests.....Its a string of poo thats almost invisible to the plain eye. They are under an inch in size.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*How many Quarts!*

I was at OSH the other day and decided to check out their gravels and sand. Well they had Horticulture Sand. It was great texture and coloring and would be perfect for my tank as far as looks. The problem is they only have 1 Quart bags. I dont want to buy to less and have to go back and I dont want to buy too many and waste money. My question is, how many of these 1 quart bags sould I get for my 10g? I want at least a 2" deep substrate. I did a search on Google, "Converting Pounds to Quarts", but nothing useful comes up.

Thanks, 
James


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