# G's 12g long planted with new (smaller) driftwood



## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

regarding photos, I put all the old photos into a new album since I'm going to do a second tank journal soon and dont want any mixups/confusions with pictures. Please go to the photobucket site for all old pics. I'll try to edit in some FTS shots for progressions on post 131 on page 9
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Equipment:
Marineland Double Bright LED
Eheim 2215 Filter with 2217 impeller
Koralia Nano 240
Hydor Inline Heater
5lb CO2

Black sand substrate

Flora(edited):
HC
I have no idea what the rest are called lol

Fauna(edited):
CRS
RCS
Otocinclus Vitatus


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

lookin good nice ideas how about white cloud mountain minnows aswell/either they have red on them and are a good shoaler will also contrast well with a black background


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

this has great potential!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Day 1:


















Please ignore the rock, that's to prevent the driftwood from floating.

Thanks for reading!

p.s. big thank you to everyone on TPT who I got stuff from(driftwood, prefilters, co2 stuff, plants, fertilizers etc)



EnigmaticGuppy92 said:


> lookin good nice ideas how about white cloud mountain minnows aswell/either they have red on them and are a good shoaler will also contrast well with a black background


I've had them before. i was less than impressed with their coloration. however, I had them in my first tank a long time ago with really crappy lighting so that could be the cause of it. i also had them in a tank with neons so that also made them look worse :wink: 
I'm more concerned with the boraras looking really nice in pictures because of the lighting that compliments their red color so when I put them in my tank, they'll look more washed out and bland.


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

good luck i will watch your progress


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

orchidman said:


> this has great potential!


I'm already out of ideas! I'm a total noob with plants! i was thinking anubias nana on the branches where there are intersections, flame moss around the other branches, some crypt parva along the back/right, and red stems across the back/left. 

I am slightly worried that there isnt enough cover for the fish under that bright lighting from looking at my top down shot. I originally allotted more back space for plants but the tile under the driftwood skewed my location placement and i ordered too much hc. (dont often hear ppl complain about that, please be nice. its my first planted tank :red_mouth)


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

i would add vallisneria in the rear left corner i would keep the far right as an open swimming area and add a few crypts and stem plants in and around the driftwood with maybe a large crypt at the back


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I found these crypts that I like. in parenthesis is how tall they get, but i want to know how wide do they get?
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green Gecko' (4-6in)
CRYPTOCORYNE X WILLISII 'LUCENS' (4-8in)
CRYPTOCORYNE UNDULATA (4-6in)

Keep in mind my tank is only like 9 inches tall lol with 1-2inches of sand = gigantic looking crypts. wont they overpower the driftwood?


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Looks like you have a great start on this. I'm really starting to like that size tank.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks! You should get one


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## simply amazing (Aug 2, 2011)

wow.. cant wait to see this


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I thought the same thing about the lucens... Now I have some leaves that are close to a foot probably. My undulata stays about the listed height, not sure about green gecko because I havent had it but my wendtii red gets like a foot or taller sometimes.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

darn, i liked the lucens the best. I'll go with the undulata in the back left corner then thanks! What color do you think it will be with around 40-50 par?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Day4: HC stems started perking up, can see some new smaller leaves (or is this wishful thinking? ) Definitely saw alot of fuzzy mold on the driftwood though. Went into panic mode and wiped it down before I remembered to take pictures. Hopefully I caught it pretty early and it wont spread to the plants. Wiped down the wood with full strength excel and left the saran wrap off today to let the wood fully dry. Just covered it again now as the water level goes down reaaally fast when left open.

If I see mold on the hc, how much should i dilute the excel to spray onto the hc? I think i read 1:10 before?


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Im not techy enough to know what par is for what lighting, but undulata stays green for the most part when it is shaded or low light. in medium light it gets a nice redish orange color. Havent grown in "high light" so I couldnt sat, but give it a shot its a nice plant. Why not try some luteait gets a dark reddish brown color with stripes if it gets enough light very cool. I can sell you some undulata and/or lutea if you need some.

The fungus on the wood is usually only temporary. Idk where you got it but it could be a softwood and not hold up too well under water. If it feels "waxy" or you can easily push your fingernewails into it its probably not a good idea to keep. I do a lot of drift wood collecting and you learn what kinds work and,which ones dont.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I got it from a member on the boards. I think i wasn't too sure of the water level and misted too often with saran wrap on all the time.

The lutea looks really nice, with the veins providing color contrast. Its getting hard to pick between the lutea and the undulata now!

on a side note, it was such a nice day that I took a little trip to get my co2 tank filled. yay


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This is terrific. Absolutely love the wood!


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## ADA (Dec 31, 2010)

somewhatshocked said:


> This is terrific. Absolutely love the wood!


That's what she said.:wink:

The wood is amazing though.. I subscribed.. can't wait to see this tank develop!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

ADA said:


> That's what she said.


:icon_lol:

I saw some roots going down yesterday so that makes me a happy happy person


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## ADA (Dec 31, 2010)

dasob85 said:


> So after weeks (I know it doesn't sound like long, but for me it was quite a test of my patience :icon_lol of lurking here and wanting a tank again (with weighing the pro's, my old favorite was a 2.5gallon with a really pathetic light, some java moss, 1 guppy and some shrimp and the con's, sticking my entire arm down a discus tank to clean it) I finally set up a new 12 gallon long tank from gla. This will be my first real planted tank. Hopefully I did enough research but please let me know if there is something that is wrong. Thanks!
> 
> Equipment:
> Marineland Double Bright LED
> ...


I went back and read your original post, I do have a couple of comments.. 

Your equipment looks good. No problems there.





dasob85 said:


> Black sand substrate, going to put in some root tabs and dose EI w/ 50% weekly changes


This raises a bit of concern. I'm not sure that your HC will do well in that substrate.. you should be fine with larger stem plants but HC has really small roots and usually requires nutrient rich substrate, like Aquasoil or similar. Im not sure though.. you could be fine. :icon_conf





dasob85 said:


> Flora:
> HC
> Anubias nana petite
> Flame Moss?
> ...


Looks good!





dasob85 said:


> I was going to do some more stems, but ordered too much HC so I'm hoping just a line or 2 of red stems across the back will look decent.
> 
> Fauna:
> 11 Boraras Brigittae or Celestial Pearl Danios
> ...


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks. Its always good to know I'm going in the right direction. 

So i was trying to get some worms (probably nematodes) off my driftwood and managed to uproot a clump of HC. To my surprise, there were lots of new roots at least 1in. long! Now I'm so tempted to forget the dry start and flood this sucker... It just stares at me and whispers "flood me, flood me" lol I want to go back to the days when I didn't know they made roots already and would float up if I flooded it. Made patience so much easier 

btw, got some root tabs earlier, how many would you suggest I put in a tank this size? 3?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Day 15 Update:

Wow, I didn't think there was any growth but was pleasantly surprised when comparing with day 1. At this rate, it may not take the full 6 weeks to fill in. Threw in some ferts too


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## kcartwright856 (Jan 16, 2012)

I love the driftwood piece!

Can't wait to see everything grown in!


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

May I know what ferts your putting? Man I'm a bit jelly cant wait till my HC grows lawn of HC like that! That double LED is a good light.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

i used the EI dosing formula but I put the estimated # of gallons as 1. I was thinking that would be overkill but I do have some yellowing that according to pictures would deem it as a nitrate or potassium deficiency. I ended up doing 1 1/64 teaspoon of kno3, 1/4 of 1/64 teaspoon of kh2po4 for two days a week, and 1/4 of the 1/64 teaspoon of csmb 2 days of the week when i replenish the water due to evaporation since I leave the saran wrap off about 2 hours each night to avoid fungus on the driftwood. I do have some green hair algae? growing on the few bare patches of the substrate so I cut my photoperiod down to 12 hours. I may up the amount of ferts to 3 times a week since I do have some yellowing. hope that helps!

edit: my spray bottle is pure water, i use a 30ml syringe to put the fert dosed water in the higher part of the back directly onto rocks only as i read that some ppl's hc grew algae or fungus with a spraybottle of ferts? not too sure if that was the cause or not but its not really an extra amount of work.

yup, i'm pretty pleased with the light. I got it after i saw some other members using it too 

can't wait to flood this sucker! need to get some amano shrimp to eat the eyesore of algae  i think i should hold out for 1-2 more weeks though to get complete carpeting. I took a picture last week of day 21 but forgot to upload it, will upload it along with this week's day 28 pic.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Oh okay, so you "injected" the ferts mix with water into the substrate with the needle? Hope I got that right.

Oh yeah I guess I'm going to stop spraying with ferts mix on the spray bottle.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

well, i dont use the needle to inject under the substrate as i dont want to stab myself by accident. needle sticks are no fun. i just use the syringe itself to squirt it nice and slow about an inch off the highest part of the substrate as my tank is not completely level. it'll diffuse down anyway and then hopefully the roots can access the nutrients. 

My main reason for not using the spray bottle is my driftwood branches get in the way all the time, and i want to keep it dry as i do have some fungus growing on it from time to time. I think you can use the spray bottle to keep things nice and humid since you have a nice open field above your hc? Sorry i'm not much help. I'm a plant noob too lol


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Original Eheim 2215 had a really loud humming noise that didn't seem right, vendor took responsibility and sent me a replacement no hassle. I'm one step closer to flooding this sucker woohoo! I did have it cycling in a bucket in the bathroom last week so hopefully nitrites will come down by next week and let me finally fill the tank.

I may do it this week regardless since it is a planted tank and I have co2 all ready to go, but definitely by next week as the HC is starting to have more yellowing and the growth seems to be slowing down? I still see new small green leaves popping up here and there slowly so maybe someone with more experience can chime in?

Forgot to upload last week's picture update so here's 2 for easy comparison :red_mouth

Day 22:









Day 29:








the yellowing is mainly right over .................. here ^ where it looks super bright.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Man your HC is super awesome!
Comparing the first picture, until now your HC did grew fast!
btw, may I know how much HC you ordered in the first day? and what method of planting did you use? tweezer? or sprinkle the hc?


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## Bazurk (Jul 31, 2011)

Looks great! I can't wait to see the progress on it.. I'm a fan of 12long tanks by the way


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I ordered 8 pots worth. the far right i used tweezers and all the area with and to the left of the wood I sprinkled small clumps and pushed slightly to get it set. I think the clumps work just as well as tweezers and is less labor intensive. I probably could have survived with only ordering 6 pots though but I'm generally an impatient person so I'm happy with my decision to go with 8.

and thanks for the compliments guys!


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## jingleberry (Mar 1, 2012)

Making some good progress! Can't wait to see pics of the flooded tank.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

got impatient and ordered some plants. gonna flood it next week  can't wait


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Lol ya it's hard in this hobby to be patient. That's a great start.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Time for the usual wednesday update.

Some plants arrived on monday faster than expected so flooded the sucker!









Hopefully I'll get all my plants by friday and can actually plan out my scape! (I'm waiting to see what everything looks like first lol) Its kind of nice that the plants didnt all arrive at once though.. Tying the moss took me almost 3 hours! Filling the tank slowly took another hour, and then came the headache of getting the filtration system set up. My lily pipes are always crooked since the eheim tubing is so hard! Has anyone either tried a softer 12/16 tubing or used a 90 degree pvc to "train" the eheim tubing to stay bent? Right now, the flow is diagonal from the front left towards the back right. 










I think I fixed the driftwood too far back leaving no space to create a sense of depth.. I may tear up an inch deep of HC in the middle to place some lower growing plants. What do you guys think? How can I remove the HC without pulling up all the neighboring clumps?


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Fts?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Oh yea, I didn't put up a FTS since it looks the same as the dry start lol. I'm still waiting on 3 different plant shipments so it looks quite bare. Its a good thing I got a bunch of floaters first to suck up some nutrients quickly. Luckily, also wiped down the glass last night after the wc.


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## manualfocus (Jun 15, 2011)

This is going to look awesome when everything grows in! (It already looks awesome.. so awesome-r, I supposed.) :thumbsup:


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Cool, gonna go with ferns or something on the wood?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I was going to put 2 anubias petites, on the fuschia colored circles, and another on either of the 2 yellow circled locations. 
Got a crypt lutea in the blue on the left, crypt parva on the smaller blue in the right. 
red lines are the staurogyne repens, 
purpley gray are the stems (i ordered around 8 different kinds, probably gonna raok the ones i dont like. how many types should i use? i was thinking 3 or 5 types), 
and finally the short oranges are going to be some stems i will permanently keep short so not to block the flame moss behind them. I'd actually bunch it up more and move it slightly to the left so not to block the blyxa too (should i just use more staurogyne repens here instead?)

Sadly I will have to pull up alot of the HC (especially since the part where the crypt lutea will grow has the best growth *sigh*) so I will be raoking that as well.
I do like windelov fern but it may get too big for my liking. I absolutely hate tying stuff to driftwood especially when the wood cannot be removed.


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## jingleberry (Mar 1, 2012)

Nice progress! How thick is your substrate?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

1in in front, almost 2.5in in the back

is that too low?


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## jingleberry (Mar 1, 2012)

No, I was just wondering how thick it is, it looks really thin in the picture. You should be good tho. Nice tank. roud:


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

whew, had me worried for a while there 

side note, yay frogbit root growth


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## shrimpster (Jan 31, 2012)

really, really nice. You definitely have it growing in well. Super nice piece of driftwood and excellent placement. 

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion...How about not planting the very center of your driftwood with stems and instead move those stems over to the far right side? I find my eye gravitating to the empty space on the right instead of staying "within" your excellent layout.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I try to keep the species to a minimum personally, if for no better reason to avoid spending money on more plants, but just plant them all and see what looks/grow the best and go from there. You dont have to get it right on the first round of planting.

Im kind of pioneering the use of clear push pins aka thumbtacks for attaching moss to driftwood for people who cant pull the wood out. You could wedge the anubias between two of them to keep it in place until the roots grab hold. Check out my journal to see what im talking about

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...eelers-stumped-55-gallon-community-4-a-2.html 

Windelov is one of the smallest forms of java fern btw


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

What did you use for the black on the back of the tank?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I was going for some negative space as I really like it when other ppl have done it. Do you think its too much? i guess in retrospect I should have moved the entire wood piece another 2 inches to the right. If I put some low height plants in the back right will that still maintain some of the negative space?

--

Yup, the plan was to plant all the different stems and see what I like best. I remember I had one ridiculously big piece of regular java fern, took up 90% of the tank. Easiest scape I ever did :biggrin: easy to clean too. Maybe I'll ask in the sns when I've finished planting everything and I see a need. I was originally planning on a sparsely planted tank but since I was getting co2, I figured I'd try all the plants that I never used to be able to grow haha. Also to give the shrimp some cover from the fish.

--

I went to petsmart and bought 3 feet of their black background (they only charged me for 1 foot. roud: shhhh) and used a little tape. It has a marine blue color on the other side


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Checked the tracking number, I should be getting the crypts and petites today so hopefully that will help me visualize tank placement better. I honestly have no idea what these actual plants look like lol. Its too hard to gauge color and size from an online picture. I may give in a use a little super glue for the petites since the rhizome should hide the nasty white color on the wood. The thumbtack idea is nice, but I think in your thread you said manzanita wood is too hard for it right?

Stems should arrive tomorrow yay


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Nice dude!
Everything filled in already


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## mmccarthy781 (Jul 7, 2011)

How are you liking the LED light? I'm thinking of getting the same kind for my tank and was wondering if you thought the plants are doing good under it.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Granted, I've only filled the tank for 3 days but I do like it so far. It grew the HC very well during the dry start, the frogbit is growing roots, the random stem also perked up towards the light. I know a bunch of ppl on tpt also use this light on the same tank, ADA and somewhatshocked come to mind. I think ADA has his suspended 17in above the substrate and both of their tanks look spectacular. I'm hoping if I lower the lights, it will turn some of my red stems red but I wont know until I'm comfortable to be able to safely lower the lights while avoiding algae.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Got some plants in, hopefully I'll have all the plants by tomorrow.

FTS- I see the point about the negative space being a bit too prominent, and I ran out of depth to put the parva in front of the middle stems, sooo to the right side it goes. I had to pull up HC from 3 different areas so they are being RAOKed in the sns section.









Shot from the right side


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

That green lawn of HC is so sexy!


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## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

Looks much larger than a 12g . . . quite an illusion of scale, must be that driftwood.

Damn, that HC growth makes me jealous!


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## shrimpster (Jan 31, 2012)

dasob85 said:


> I was going for some negative space as I really like it when other ppl have done it. Do you think its too much? i guess in retrospect I should have moved the entire wood piece another 2 inches to the right. If I put some low height plants in the back right will that still maintain some of the negative space?
> 
> --
> I love negative space as it gives the mind a place to "rest." I just think that if the negative space was closer to the center of your driftwood your eyes will travel back and forth to either side and then end back up to the "inside" of your design therefore keeping you interested and enhancing the sense of movement.
> ...


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Originally I wanted to keep the right side low, and let the floaters drop down some roots. But for some reason, they dont want to stay there where the flow is low...

About the right side shrimpster, do you mean I should rip up the hc and plant more heavily with some other plant like a bigger crypt? then put the parva in front and some stems in the back for height? or I just move the parva towards the front like an inch and put in some Vallisneria asiatica var. biwaensis behind it and can keep the carpet.

well, my stems will arrive today so I will go from there. I can't really visualize it without seeing the actual plants.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Idk if manzanita is too hard I havent tried it. I just know I have wood I collected locally that has been in my tank for a couple years and it was hard to get all the way in. if there is a small crack it will go on really easy.

If youre gonna glue please lower the water first


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

oops. I was too impatient and used too much superglue gel! Hopefully the plants can recover from it and I wont be taking and closeup shots of the rhizome anytime soon!


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I tried to warn you


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yea, it was mostly my fault. the first one i did sitting down so i didnt hold it down so it floated away, I made sure to stand the next time and put it directly over the white stain. Didn't want to tie 6 ridiculously small pieces of petite with everything else drying and the filter had already been off for too long.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Should I split the parva into smaller clumps? I just took off the rockwool and stuck them in the substrate


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Well, stems came as promised. I had to pull up some more of my precious HC carpet due to the massive amounts of plants I ordered. I still think its ridiculous the shipping cost more than all the stems combined. Had to pull up all the negative space HC on the right to accommodate.

I am still contemplating switching the positioning of the plant behind the stone and the plant to its right(bacopa?). When I decide which stems I like, I think I will have to ask for a plant ID lol!
I have no idea where to put that crypt lutea in the left either... I want to keep it to cut down (pun not intended) on eventual stem maintenance


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## Tt120 (Mar 12, 2012)

WOW! That is an awesome looking tank!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I cant take credit for the stems being so colorful lol... I hope they stay that color though. Gonna reaally crank up the co2 and ferts starting from tomorrow to try to maintain it.

with this amount of stems, I probably dont need the floaters as a nutrient sink anymore right?


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## shrimpster (Jan 31, 2012)

dooood. It looks soo sweet (to me) now. Love the stems on the right. It brings my eye right back into the middle area of the tank. It just keeps getting better and better.

How 'bout putting the lutea in front of the rock so it hides it and comes under the wood to the front of it?

I have to apologize for all the comments. I'm a landscape designer in my job I just can't help it:redface:


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## Chizpa305 (Feb 13, 2011)

That is a nice HC carpet. I am patiently waiting for mine to grow like that. It is such a cool little plant.

So, by reading a few of the comments I have a question now... Is is better to inject the liquid fertilizers into the substrate right beneath the plants or to just drop it in the water??

Keep posting to see the tank progress. It is looking very nice so far.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks for the comments! As a first time aquascaper, its good to know my tank doesn't look that bad lol. 

The rock actually is temporary. I just left it in a little longer as I really really dont want the driftwood to float. Unfortunately, the tank itself has very little depth so if I move the lutea in front of the wood, I'm afraid it will cut the carpet visually in half.

Finally, I have a personal HC observation to make since I've been tearing up my carpet these past 2 days. Sprinkling during a dry start is soo much easier but if you take the time to plant the individual stems one by one, the root system is MUCH more established. So far both methods seem to keep the HC rooted but thought I'd throw that out there.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

oops realized I forgot to answer your question. Sorry, was rushing to get out of the door in the morning. Now I just use dry ferts but I pre mix them in a little beaker for a minute or 2. during the dry start I just used a syringe and watered the high part of the substrate that didn't have any hc.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I realize its a silly thing to be so happy about, but I can see growth on my new plants. So happy lol. Unfortunately, My reddish plants are growing out new green leaves but I dont want to lower the light height too much just yet. Keeping fingers crossed for continued luck with no algae. I'll take a pic after my wc

I also have just one patch of the HC browning and becoming transparent with no idea why. Anybody have ideas?


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Tank looks great. The new colored plants may be adjusting to submersed life. Or you need to increase your light period, lower the bulbs or maybe add some. Not sure on the HC. Not enough light might be the culprit if your new plants were grown submersed.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks 2in10. Right now I'm running 6 hour photoperiod with LED lights at a height that I estimate to be around 40 par(are the units umols?) After my new tank phase I'll lower the lights to right over the water which should yield about 54 par and I'll increase the photoperiod to 8 hours. I'm paranoid about getting algae! Did daily 50% wc this week and probably will do it next week as well.

As promised, pics after today's WC. Borrowed a nice slr camera but my skills are pretty shoddy. I'm really stoked at all this new growth 

FTS:









Top down view:









Bottom looking up(I love this shot):









Closeups:


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## mattrt09 (Jun 12, 2010)

this tank is amazing! great work!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thank you! Now I have to learn how to photoshop the pictures so they look less washed out 

Was home the whole day yesterday so dialed in my co2. Dont think I stressed the lone fish but the atomizer started to spew a bit more 7up look than I liked. All ended well with some pearling! I think the bubble scared the crap out of the guppy though 

finally, I want your opinions. Do you think the right most stem blends too much with the parva? the leaf shapes seem a bit similar to me.


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## Ach1Ll3sH33L (Mar 1, 2012)

Looking good! You doing e.i dosing? whats your dosing schedule if you dont mind me asking.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I do use EI dosing. I'm not sure if I should follow the 10-20 gal dose, or cut that to 3/4 since my tank water volume is around 10 gallons. Right now, I'm still doing wc 3-4 times a week so I'm using the 10-20gal dose but I'll probably cut the dosage down when I do weekly water changes. 

updates:
Stems seem to grow fine without deficiencies still, but I do have some browning on the hc. the hippuroides just melted on me so got rid of that.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

added 8 neos today. got a scare when the guppy took an interest in the newly released shrimp but now he seems like he couldn't care less. fingers crossed


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Should I be concerned I only saw 4 shrimp around the food?









Finally a shrimp thats not hiding under the shade









definitely want to get more of these guys... 8 just disappear in my tank


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Oh! I think I just had my first molt! I saw a shrimp next to a ghostly exoskeleton! Why does he keep swishing his hind legs but doesnt go anywhere? 

also, the big one that you can see in the second pic upside down doesn't seem to be very interested in the food even though he was directly above it. any ideas why?


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## bitFUUL (May 14, 2010)

dasob85 said:


> Thank you! Now I have to learn how to photoshop the pictures so they look less washed out


Awesome tank!! And try taking photos without a flash... Flash nearly always washes the foreground out!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks! I'm not really comfortable using the settings on the fancy cameras. I just pray the auto settings know whats best lol. I dont have a macro lens either but those are crazy expensive and I just dropped some money on a ro/di so no awesome closeups of shrimp anytime soon.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

weekly update:
so my ro/di unit arrived and its awesome. 0 tds from the tds meter. I thought the pen was broken at first lol but tested my tank water (315tds) to confirm it does work. Was a bit overzealous yesterday and did a 10-20% wc with pure di water and dropped the tds to 250. Let the 8 yellow neos acclimate to that. Tomorrow will drop the tds another 25.

plant update: the small leafed plants are doing pretty well but the bigger leafed plants are not looking so hot. the bacopa didn't grow much, neither did the aromatica. i briefly flirted with some blue green algae? on my hc carpet for 2 days. cut up a 2x2 patch of hc to remove the majority and trimmed the small stems to remove all the blue slime. also found and removed 2 very small bunch of algae that looked like black string, and green string nestled in the hc carpet(i think it was there during my dry start too) which seemed to solve the problem as i didn't see a recurrence this week. Didn't get the expected diatom outbreak either. Since my stems are not looking so good, I dropped the lights 2 inches on Monday so now they are 14 inches above the substrate. removed most of the floaters which were blocking the light as well.

edit: I do have co2 (1.5 bps, light green drop checker; anymore and i get carbonation which looks ugly) and dose EI, and recommended dosage of excel


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## bitFUUL (May 14, 2010)

dasob85 said:


> Thanks! I'm not really comfortable using the settings on the fancy cameras. I just pray the auto settings know whats best lol. I dont have a macro lens either but those are crazy expensive and I just dropped some money on a ro/di so no awesome closeups of shrimp anytime soon.


Yeah, even on the fancy cameras, the "auto" setting usually doesn't produce the most stunning images. Without using another lens, put the camera in Macro mode and try that. Without the flash, you'll have to play with the other settings to make sure you're getting enough light in (fstop, aperature, etc). 

To be honest, with a lil "trial and error", you'll be surprised what you pull off! Just keep that flash off!!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

alright, thanks! I'll give that a go the next time I have a few hours to spare lol! took me an hour just to get 5 shots that I liked last time grrr.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Stop being so picky. The tank will look good no matter how many crappy pics you take  did you happen to get a fts in that hour?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yea, but that was the pics from post 72
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...12g-long-planted-driftwood-5.html#post1821368

I did take one today since you asked 








excuse the bare patches in front. the left patch just melted badly so while using an airline tubing to suck it out, just took everything with it. the right patch was taken over by blue-green slime algae. Had to just chop everything .

my stems also are not doing so hot. The bacopa australis in the middle just... doesn't want to take off and the stem to it's left, what used to be nice fat leaves turned into skinny ones in my tank. Any clue why?


















Changes I've made to the tank were lowered the lights another 2 inches as I said earlier, removed the floaters to give the stems more light, and lowered tds to 200 and gh to 8. Also switched the eheim 2115 impeller to the 2117 one.

side note: I noticed a shrimp lying down on the sand like a dog with its legs spread lol... guess the tds drop might have been to severe.

Edit: took a pic for another post somewhere else and figured I'd show my shelf where I put stuff that I'll use everyday here as well


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

In your Own Opinion, your 2215 is not enough for the tank?
man I only got 2213 lol.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Well, the 2215 does reach the end (the plants sway but only like 1mm) and I like more surface rippling to remove the protein film. I also like watching the fauna play(ie, get swept ) by the current. the lily pipes do disperse the flow somewhat as well. So, yes 2215 is enough but I just like more flow and didn't want to put in an ugly powerhead. 

I think you might need an extra powerhead to supplement the flow for the 2213 though


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Oops forgot my wednesday update. I was busy acclimating some new additions to my tank yesterday. thanks to james0816 for the tank grown juvie otos!


















After acclimation, netted in 3 otos and 8 more yellow neos. Kind of strange though, the biggest oto is extremely antisocial. Doesn't like to hang with the 2 smaller guys. 
All 3 of them have thus far ignored both a nicely soft nuked slice of zucchini and some repashy soilent green! Do I have the weirdest otos or what? lol
I didn't think I had that much diatoms for them to feed off of... I can only hope they are finding something to eat.









Donated my guppy out to a very sweet little girl and now the shrimp are much braver in exploring the tank.
anyway, I'm surprised my iphone took some decent pics so here they are,


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Picked up some more stuff for my tank. Gosh, I dont think I have any savings left lol.

Acclimating shrimp 









In tank


















Arrr, walk the plank matey! an OECRS (one eyed crs lol)









and finally, anyone have any idea what is up with the yellow neo?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Brought out the camera at feeding time 

FTS



























Funky yellow neo


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## jellie (Jan 31, 2010)

Nice pics. Your berried mama is pretty awesome. How many of those gorgeous CRS do you have in there?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

just 12! considering more though, they just blow the yellow neos out of the water lol


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yay, got my cocamas today! all 3 of them seem to enjoy each other's company, unlike my solitary vitatus'


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

haha, my shrimps like to be half under water too... idk why lol. they like to climb up my hob filter then weeeeeeee swept by the flow, then climb again


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

yea, crazy shrimp lol

btw, does anyone get reminded of sharks when watching their otos waddle along? 

my vitatus are like little hyper rockets but my new cocama are just so chill and relaxed lol


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Wow thats fast! That yellow got berried quick. I bet your glad you did cull it yet. lol.

And very nice. Those CRS do look good. I hope they bring you the same joy it brought me


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## ADA (Dec 31, 2010)

dasob85 said:


> just 12! considering more though, they just blow the yellow neos out of the water lol


12 should be plenty. I started with 5, and now have 100 or so


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I'm not as patient as you are lol  I ran out of patience during the dry start. I actually misspoke, I only have 10. 12 was wishful thinking.

edit: whoops, evidently i'm getting old and memory is failing me. I actually do have 12, feels kind of like finding money in an old gym bag


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

So I took out a piece of zucchini after 30 hours in the tank. Turns out 1 of the cocama likes to eat the skin and not the soft fleshy insides, and 1 of the cocama just doesn't want anything to do with the zucchini lol. 

None of their stomachs look distended which is weird cos I know at least one of them has been eating the skin. Another friend also had the same observation about her cocama. Does anyone's cocama's stomach look full after a meal?


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## Mablisboa (Apr 10, 2012)

My Otos bellies look always inflated... I had a lot of algae when i put them in my tank and they took cake of it all in 3 hrs... And their belly never went down again.. Lol... 

I see that u have a little cup inside your tank... Is that for the zucchini only or you put yor shrimp food in there too? I like the idea... One day i put a piece of zucchini in my tank and i had pieces of zucchini everywhere next day, it was a pain to clean it... Another question... what do u feed your shrimps?

I absolutely love your tank!!!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

thanks! grr, put in some more zucc last night and still no bulging stomachs! grr, these cocama are driving me nuts. I was too paranoid about algae so I had co2, excel and originally 6hour photo period lol. bumped it up to 7hrs now. I just had zucchini at least every other day from day one in the tank so they'd have something to eat lol. Yup, that little cup is for zucchini only. I just got a second one yesterday and put some shrimp food in there but the CRS are too stupid to go into the cup lol. the neos churned up alot of it and spread it outside the cup though. h4n and somewhatshocked sell them so you can pick up a few from them.

my shrimps eat zucchini, somewhatshocked's foods, repashy, bw color, and a multitude of ken's pellets. so far, I think they like somewhatshocked's complete om nom nom the most. I still have 3 foods to try


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## Mablisboa (Apr 10, 2012)

dasob85 said:


> thanks! grr, put in some more zucc last night and still no bulging stomachs! grr, these cocama are driving me nuts. I was too paranoid about algae so I had co2, excel and originally 6hour photo period lol. bumped it up to 7hrs now. I just had zucchini at least every other day from day one in the tank so they'd have something to eat lol. Yup, that little cup is for zucchini only. I just got a second one yesterday and put some shrimp food in there but the CRS are too stupid to go into the cup lol. the neos churned up alot of it and spread it outside the cup though. h4n and somewhatshocked sell them so you can pick up a few from them.
> 
> my shrimps eat zucchini, somewhatshocked's foods, repashy, bw color, and a multitude of ken's pellets. so far, I think they like somewhatshocked's complete om nom nom the most. I still have 3 foods to try


I was wondering if the Shrimps would get in the cup or not... Guess not huh... Haha!! I'll try the little cup today see what happens. Thanks for the foods ideas will def. try that i read that they like spinach too... But I could't make it sink, not ever after parboiling :/ so i just decided to forget about the spinach. Last week i tried one of those algae wafers... Omg what a mess... I wanted to die!!!! Lol


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I hate spinach! therefore, i refuse to feed them to my pets lol.
the neos got in the cup just fine. One crs got in the zucchini cup but didn't want to try the shrimp food. silly bugger. 

Oh yea, I dropped in an algae wafer just once, while I was acclimating some otos. damn thing fell apart in 30 minutes, good thing it was in a small container. I told myself I'm never putting it in my tank.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Whats the broad leaf plant in the middle? If I can suggest, I would fill the back with some small round leaf plants and then have some nice easy pink plants in the back as well. It will give it nice depth and color contrast. 

Perhaps some rotala wallichii and Lindernia sp india?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

that solitary green one? bacopa australis. I had 6 originally but 5 of them melted away. thats the lone survivor but now its doing okay. I will get rid of the stems behind the rock and put something else there, its red with big leaves and is just floating in a holding tank right now. 

I actually do want to try wallichii but havn't been able to find it.


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## fishyjoe24 (Dec 10, 2009)

kwheeler91 said:


> Idk if manzanita is too hard I havent tried it. I just know I have wood I collected locally that has been in my tank for a couple years and it was hard to get all the way in. if there is a small crack it will go on really easy.
> 
> If youre gonna glue please lower the water first



what type of glue? is aquarium safe. I have ghost wood and it's light so it floats. i thought about siliconing it. but if glue and rocks work that would be easier.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

just any superglue  as long as its cyanoacrylate it is safe.

the gel type works best because its not as runny.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

You might consider driling and attaching slate. I have siliconed pieces to rocks before and that works too, but it came apart eventually from moving it around. I dont how well superglue would hold up, im guessing not as long as silicone, but give it a shot and see what happens.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Oh yea, once the glue on the wood hardened, I put in a few stainless steel screws and also attached it to a piece of slate.

I thought you meant plants onto the wood earlier so I didn't mention it


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

came home to a jumper... rip


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

dasob85 said:


> came home to a jumper... rip


who?


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

What a beautiful tank ! Im amazed! u need an award


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## Mablisboa (Apr 10, 2012)

dasob85 said:


> came home to a jumper... rip


Oh my!! Who??


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

thanks for the compliment!

It was a juvie crs, nicely colored too. perhaps he got panicked around the lily outflow *sniff* 
why dont the neos ever jump and only the crs?


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

Awesome tank. Turns out I scaped my emmersed tank similar. Love the moss!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

oo pics?  thanks for the compliments, I'm still debating when to start trimming it. I also have to figure out how to trim mini pellia too.


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

My hard scape on my 53 is also the same, though the plants are vastly different.

I'll PM you the links so I dont Hijack.

As for trimming, I trim when its starts liking less uniform and more 'wild'... Some tanks I keep wild as it goes with the scape, but most stay trimmed to encourage compact and uniform growth.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Nah, I dont mind hijacks. I actually clicked through your sig link first to look for the tanks ^_^

I'm very aggressive about trimming the stems. I only replant the tops and remove all offshoots from the side due to lack of growth space. Surprisingly the shrimp dont really go for the moss or the mini pellia on the wood as much as I thought they would so I dont mind it getting a little wild and messy.


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## jellie (Jan 31, 2010)

dasob85 said:


> I hate spinach! therefore, i refuse to feed them to my pets lol.


How about bok choy? That has a good amount of calcium. 
RIP your jumper. How many CRS do you have now? lol

A transition plant on the right, between your short Stauro.repens and that tall stem plant would be nice. Is that where you wanted to put HM?


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Beautiful tank - congratulations! I really like the aquascape and black background. Tagging along


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## DvanK (Feb 27, 2009)

Update pls!


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## caykuu (Jul 30, 2011)

It's turning out fantastically.  
Creeping on this thread!


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Well, its been a while. I've made some changes because my co2 was off and then I got massive hair algae and the driftwood made cleaning annoying and planting a pain sooo took it out! Another pet peeve, java moss pieces stuck inside and growing under my HC carpet. argh! Learned my lesson, gonna try a wall and mesh and only trim outside the tank to cut down on stray pieces. In the end, pulled up all my plants and cleaned the entire tank!

Sadly, the h2o2 dip i did killed off most of my plants so wasn't left with much. Anyway, shrimp and otos are doing fine. And thanks to a very generous friend who donated some clippings and cherry shrimp to make this empty glass box more appealing to look at for the week.









Thought I'd try a fissidens wall, hopefully it will grow in soon. Or the next time I pass a walmart or crafts store, I'll try to get something in black









Spent ages replanting HC. Have to plant very deeply or else the shrimp dig it up









Finally, plant package arrived. Gonna let things grow out and try to replant what I like in a month for a more pleasing layout. I do like where the driftwood is but I'm thinking I can have the 3 tubes hidden more in the back? or maybe when i manage to pick out some black mesh it wont be so shiny lol any other suggestions for plant placement is welcome!








Oh, and I put in a koralia (shrimp proofed the intake but as I look closely, sometimes I'll see plants getting sucked in the middle of the outflow so eventually I'll have to super glue some mesh on the outflow as well) because I like watching all the stuff sway.

Thanks for reading


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## ADA (Dec 31, 2010)

dasob85 said:


> Well, its been a while. I've made some changes because my co2 was off and then I got massive hair algae and the driftwood made cleaning annoying and planting a pain sooo took it out! Another pet peeve, java moss pieces stuck inside and growing under my HC carpet. argh! Learned my lesson, gonna try a wall and mesh and only trim outside the tank to cut down on stray pieces. In the end, pulled up all my plants and cleaned the entire tank!
> 
> Sadly, the h2o2 dip i did killed off most of my plants so wasn't left with much. Anyway, shrimp and otos are doing fine. And thanks to a very generous friend who donated some clippings and cherry shrimp to make this empty glass box more appealing to look at for the week.
> 
> ...


That's nice looking substrate. What kind is it? It looks like Tahitian Moonsand, or crushed onyx. But does it have nutrients in it for plants?


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I think it was tahitian moonsand. I do like how its nice and shiny. It is inert and I am trying the dose ferts by tds approach.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

yay baby crs (to the right of the red cherry). Out of curiosity, does anyone know when crs start coloring up? I keep finding clear/yellow babies about the same size that look like yellow neo babies and I'm freaked out they will interbreed with my reds lol. I had yellow neos as of december and thought I found all the leftover babies by january. I also have been adding plants so maybe they hitchhiked that way?

Also, what do red cherry babies look like? mine are almost at breeding size.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Another update, some new growth!


shot from the left


shot from the right


and finally the main attraction, new otos!

they are so silly, hiding out in plain open instead of the few (unnatural ceramic) caves. Guess I wont be purchasing any more of those. (edit: those = ceramic caves not otos. I love otos)


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## assasin6547 (Feb 6, 2013)

Nice! That fissidens wall is going to look amazing.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks, after 2 weeks, they are finally starting to poke out of the SS mesh. I'm still kind of scared that the mesh is way too fine for good growth, and I picked up a huge roll of fiberglass mesh from lowes yesterday when I went shopping for my other tank build. I'll be breaking out the sewing kit next week


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I'm surprised at all the growth. I guess I've been obsessing over the new otos and if they were eating lol. Another week and I think I will move the plants around for the final scape. all the crypts are staying where they are, going to move all the stems around. Right now, I think I'll move the slower growing stems closer to the koralia and the faster growing ones to the left.

edit: ah, I moved all my photos into an album so now they dont show up anymore. Here was April 1rst FTS. And forgot to mention finally found some fiberglass mesh and removed that ugly SS mesh. It almost disappears into the picture now but I still dont like it. I'll give it another month to grow and I'll RAOK it off. I feel bad RAOKing it now cos its freshly bound and looks hideous


Older FTS (since all my old pictures no longer show up automatically):
2012-05-09 I really miss the HC carpet... This tank really makes scaping difficult with only 8 inches of depth. Personal notes for the future, dont get such a giant piece of driftwood lol


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Couldn't stand looking at my tank anymore so finally did a rescape. Some of the slower growing stuff didn't recover enough/didn't grow fast enough so I didn't have much to work with. Some stuff grew too fast lol.

anyway, FTS:


Left half:


Right half:


from top:


and finally, scared otos:


Comments/Suggestions on the scape? Eventually I'm getting rid of the moss wall and will change out the SS moss tube for something less shiny. I'm also not keeping the round leafed stems in front to the right of the repens.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Growth update: Upped photoperiod from 6 to 7 hours, upped co2 to 16 bubbles per 30 seconds. Hopefully I can grow more diatoms for the otos that seem to be more reclusive now that they've settled in...
also redid the shrimp tube so it is not as shiny


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

growth update: upped photoperiod from 7 to 8 hours and raised lights another 2 inches. upped co2 to 18/30secs


pregnant oto?


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## assasin6547 (Feb 6, 2013)

That oto just looks fat and happy.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

She's the only one that is fat and happy! all my others are juvies or reclusive or both :icon_cry:


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Did another trim


Will get rid of the fast growers when I resolve bba issue because I dont want to keep trimming so often. removed 20+ crypt leaves with noticable bba. Kind of strange as I have good flow, good co2, medium/low lighting and enough nutrients. *sigh* I'm considering spot treating with excel or h2o2 as I have no more leaves to remove as all the crypts only have 1 or 2 leaves left lol. anyway, have co2 upped to 28 bubbles per 30 seconds for a green drop checker. Will keep slowly raising it until drop checker is light green or fish start freaking, whichever is first. I dont think I need a yellow drop checker as I am not anywhere near high light territory... Also have co2 running 2 hours before lights on instead of 1h.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Changed lights to Current Satellite+ last week, Cut lights back down to 7hours. Plants were closing up right at the 8th hour of light and otos seem to like the newer lower par conditions that i see them more often and rasping on the zuchinni. Didn't really grow any diatoms with the longer photoperiod anyway. still spot treating black algae. CO2 upped to 1.5 bubbles per second.

FTS:


and for the future, dry start is definitely the way to go for HC. this is 2 months of growth :/


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Trimmed and moved some stuff around. Hid the unnatural looking tube. I'd like to raok out that fiss wall on the left. Do you guys think I should let it grow more or just put it up as is?

spot treating with excel really works great


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

hmm, still dealing with nuisance bba here and there on the front right and back left. any tips on stabilizing co2 or dealing with smoother water flow? Have a koralia on the right. for now i'll start slowly upping the co2 but drop checker on the far right. already shows pretty light green.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Some big changes:
Took out the koralia, added a second eheim on the opposite for whirlpool pattern flow. Otos enjoyed it for a day and went back to their skittish hiding.

Finally broke down a week later while touring fish stores and bought a bunch of new additions. What could they be? Acclimating


after 5 minutes in the tank, blurs everywhere! taking pics of fish is much harder than taking pics of plants and shrimp lol


and because pics were impossible, I gave up and took a video. excuse the noisy ac


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Finally grew sick of looking at the HC carpet. Will be setting up a new tank soon and also wanted a change of scape so tore out the HC and added some plants to try and grow some for the 40b. Ended up with too many types of plants and not enough space to propagate haha. Also got rid of the chilis. They are pretty but act just like regular fish. Not fun to watch at all. They weren't shy but always hugged the plants very closely. They probably did not enjoy the flow in my tank.


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