# algae fest??



## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Oh my ph was about 7 kh 12 gh 13 if that makes a difference. Trying to keep the co2 around 20...


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## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

First of all your tank is only two weeks old, so give it some time to seattle in. In the mean time here are a few suggestions.

1) Don't dose any ferts for the first 3-4 weeks. The plants will use stored nutrients intil they produce a good root system.

2) Try getting the nitrates down to 10ppm and then keep phosphates at 1ppm.

3) Add some fast growing plants for now to help suck up the nutrients that the algae is using to grow. I would reccommend Hornwort, Anacharis, WaterSprite, Water lettuce.

4) I would also add some SAE's, they will eat algae that the Otto's & shrimp won't. Pleco's are also good algae eaters.

5) If your lights are on for more than 12 hours a day then reduce back to 10 hours a day.

Also just keep removing as much algae by hand as possible and remove any leaves that are extremly affected.


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Cheers

The flourish bottle is in the safe lol to resist my hands. lights are on 10.5 hrs - didnt change since start, they are intense tho, so plants might need time to adjust.

Just tested and didnt realise but nitrates are down to 10 roud:. Now phos confuses me. It says 1 on my test kit, but it hasnt changed for ages now. Plants do use phos up right? So I again wonder, would Aquasafe lock away some phos or something?? IS there any other reason 1.0 would show on the test kit but not be available or used??

Hmm will see if I can squeeze a few more fast plants in there. The difformis and hydroctyle have been growing very fast, so hopefully they are having a good go.

Been looking for SAEs - my lfs that usually has them didnt have none, strangely. I am being extra cautious tho as want to make sure I get the right thing. Altho being a 2ft tank, they cant stay in there forever, but as a temp measure would be useful eh!

I'll just keep ripping it as you say, its just horrible  I was well excited too lol.

thanks for your advice, its about what I expected, especially the slow down - wait and see.


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## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

Plants do use phosphates but can asorb minute traces and make use of them. So I guess this is way there is always some traces in the tank. My phosphate readings stay between 1-2ppm. I don't think that the Aquasafe would have anything to do with it.


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## djlen (Sep 14, 2003)

Take a sample of your tap water and let it sit for a few hours. Then test it for N(Nitrates) and P(Phosphates). Many of our friends in the UK have high levels of P in their tap water. We need to know what the content of N and P are before making the suggestion of multiple water changes. So test and post your results. Leaving the water sit will give a more accurate indication of it's contents.

Len


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

djlen said:


> Take a sample of your tap water and let it sit for a few hours. Then test it for N(Nitrates) and P(Phosphates). Many of our friends in the UK have high levels of P in their tap water. We need to know what the content of N and P are before making the suggestion of multiple water changes. So test and post your results. Leaving the water sit will give a more accurate indication of it's contents.
> 
> Len


Already did in first post - My tap water has nitrates 20 and phosphates over 2 but below 5 (scale on test) - I figure its around 3.5 or so. SO the change made things worse. 

I will let some water sit and test again.... but pretty sure thats right from 6 mths or using it and testing it occasionally.

The tank has cycled almost all the nitrate out now, phos was still 1 last test. Gonna test again today.

I wouldnt be able to do any big water changes - thats just gonna add too much phos in. But I might do a 10% today or 2morrow to get some nitrate back in. Added the puffers yesterday so they could even do it for me


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Just an update. In tank - nitrates are near to 0 now, and phos is under 0.5 - not sure how far, thats as much as my test can tell me. I reckon about 0.2 or something from the colour.

Algae has slowed, as have plants of course.

Pondering whether to do a water change to add some nutrients back in now or let the algae/plants starve for a day or 2....???


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## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

KingKano... Your plants growth have slowed because your nitrates are at 0. If the plant growth have slowed down your algae growth will pick up. You need to get the nitrates back up to 10ppm and then keep your phosphates at 1ppm. Here is a link for adding nitrates...
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nitrate.htm


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Yeah I am trying to find pot. nitrate. For now I did a 10% water change that should add a littel nitrate. Whatever it added it worked as the difformis grew a few inches during that day.

Out of interest, if I dose in KNO3 and if need be PO4, is there actually any need left for water changes??? I mean, water changes are to replenish traces and to remove nitrate/phos right?? If I am dosing those all in - does it remove the need?? Obviously you dont wanna never water cahnge, but I could do it every fortnight or monthly even (since my water sucks so much)??


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## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

If you can find Green light stump remover in the UK it is pure pottasium nitrate and works great. I dose Green light ever 3 days to keep my nitrates between 10-12ppm.

No, I would not stop regular water changes, I still do a 25% water change on a weekly basis. It is just a good habit to get into and besides it takes out all the bad stuff puts back good stuff and the fish really like the nice fresh water.


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

trenac said:


> If you can find Green light stump remover in the UK it is pure pottasium nitrate and works great. I dose Green light ever 3 days to keep my nitrates between 10-12ppm.
> 
> No, I would not stop regular water changes, I still do a 25% water change on a weekly basis. It is just a good habit to get into and besides it takes out all the bad stuff puts back good stuff and the fish really like the nice fresh water.


Couldnt find any stump remover, its a weed killer here used for stumps, dont wanna do that!! lol

I got some Kent Botanica Nitro+ and k+ for now. I might get some flourish nitrogen or something in the future if its cheaper, dosed 5ml yesterday of nitro+ and it did make a big difference. See how that goes for a week.

lol the water changes would be doing the opposite for me?? with phos 4 and nitrates 20 I'd be taking out the good stuff and putting in rubbish lol. Something to think about..... And that is what I meant by fresh water  if the tank water is already magic (little nitrates all used by plants everything else good) is there any reason>>?? 

I might reduce mine to fortnightly yet. still thinking.


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## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

Well, the stump remover here in the states is also used to decompose stumps but once deluted with water (2 tble spoons added too 250ml of water) it makes a great tank fert.

If the water in the UK is not that good quality maybe less would be better for you. I would do then what every works best for you. Maybe twice a month but not less than once a month.

Good luck :fish:


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

I had the same problem trying to find KNO3 here until I went to a pharmacy and asked for it. They ordered it for me and had it in a day or two.

So maybe try a pharmacy?

Laith


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## djlen (Sep 14, 2003)

If your water is supplying P and N, why dose it? Do small water changes weekly and test for N and P content. Change the amount of water that will give you N=10-15ppm and P=1.5-2.0. Then you only need to dose K and Traces to balance. If the plants are using the nutrients do your water changes to suit the plant's needs for N & P.


Len


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Yeah I considered water cahnges to replace n&p instead of dosing. but the ratio is way out (nitrates 20 phos 4 or so). I would end up giving too much phos each time. I may still try it, changing enuff to get a little phos in, then dosing whatever extra I need for nitrogen. Could be an idea and save on dosages.

The only pitfall I can see, is I would be doing twice weekly small changes to dose right, and there will be an excess of nutrients every few days. Wont that actually encourage the algae rather then help me beat it?? By dosing daily there is rarely going to be an excess right??

I'll try a pharmacy next time - cheers. For now I have the kent botanica products which arent bad really, except using the nitro+ to dose is gonna be quite expensive!!


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## djlen (Sep 14, 2003)

I would change in small increments and test for rise in P. The N=20 is not going to hurt you if the K, P, and Traces are in line. P is the problem in my view. See how small(maybe 10%) a water change will hold you in the 1.5 - 2.0 range. Phosphates do not cause algae issues. Imbalance does.
If you can find a way to change water and keep your parameters balanced you will see increased plant growth and decreased algae.
Traces and K are you limiting elements, as I see it. You're getting plenty of the other two with the water.

Len


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Hey thanks for the info. Yeah K wont be a problem, I am dosing 4 drops a day of botanica k+ which is what it recomends as starting point. The plants have responded immediately to this it seems!!!

Today I did a 20% or so change, I figured this to give the tank a phos of 1, and nitrate of 5. But the tank has been using more than 5 nitrate in 1 day, whereas that phos would last a while. So I dosed the phos to 10 as a trial (error in pudgy typing I meant Nitrates to 10). I figure if I keep dosing it to +5 each day it shouldnt drop to 0 by next week, and phos should, then I can do 20% more change??

First day today of no new thread algae roud: pretty pleased. Downside, there was some blue green slimey algae  But that might have been because it was very low on nitrates (0 - could have been most of the day too). Took the opportunity to hoover lots of algae out at the change, looking much better.

I've had them all now, green spot, thread, hair, black brush, staghorn, and now blue green slime. Cant get any worse atleast lol. Hopefully things will look up :tongue:. I think the wood might have to go now the plants have grown in as I dont need it as a height filler, and it kinda looks un-natural 

pic


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## djlen (Sep 14, 2003)

I'm not clear on your P rate. You want to try to keep it between 1.0 and 2.0ppm if possible. In your post, you said, "so I dosed the phos to 10 as a trial". What did you mean by this? Hopefully not 10ppm. That would cause problems.
Just remember the parameters and try to keep the tank at them:
P=1.0 - 2.0 N=10 - 20 and dose K+ as needed. K is difficult to over dose, so watch the plants and tweak as necessary. Traces are an important part of the equation. If you're not dosing already, pick up some Seachem's Flourish(not Flourish 'Trace' - too weak........plain Flourish.

Len


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Sorry thats my dodgy tired typing. I dosed Nitrate to 10.... so it should be phos 1.0 nitrate 10.0. This morn before leaving I tested again and nitrate still showing abouts 10, see how it is tonight, and dose accordingly.

The trouble with taking my phos above 1 is it seems algae just goes mad when I do, so gonna try keeping it at 1 or so, with nitrates at 10 - thats the ole magic 10:1 ratio right??

I have some Flourish, and I did dose it from the beginning, and thats when algae started going mad!! The tank is at day 20, and algae sorta getting under control. Do you think I should start dosing it again now?? Should I start at 1/4 or 1/2 dose??

Yeah I hav to say, K has made a big difference I am very surprised. I'll stick with my 4-5 drops a day and see what happens. Being such a high powered tank I might be increasing it I spose, glad its one thing I cant overdose finally!!

cheers


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## djlen (Sep 14, 2003)

My guess is that the Flourish is not what caused the original algae outbreak. It's a new tank and not yet fully established. You are trying to build plant mass and learn nutritional needs and these problems happen frequently in new systems. 
Traces will be an important part of the plants' diet. If you don't feel comfortable with dosing Flourish now, and their growing well with algae on the decline, you could withhold it for a while and as the plant mass increases, start dosing at 1/4 - 1/2 strength and observe.
Sounds like you're on the right track.

Len


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Trying to learn everyday  Its amazing how much can happen in this tank in 1 day!! Algaes can appear, disappear, growth on plants is amazing. Definitely a learning experience.

No new thread algae again today, tiny bit of blue green (even tho nitrates still measured 5 tonight). I dosed another 5 nitrates, which I'll do each day unless I measure 10 in tank then I will skip. Also started some flourish last night, just a small amount about .5ml or something - didnt see any big increase in algae, so might continue that for now.

Still gotta measure phos, but things might be on the up. Fingers crossed.

thanks for help so far.


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## kingkano (Jun 1, 2004)

Well, felt like 1 step fwd 2 steps back for a while. Think I was getting ahead or learning something, then I was wrong lol. But getting there slowly.

I finally found some TRUE Siamese Algae Eaters today. These were 2" guys, I got 3 and stuck them all in here for now. I know the tank is too small for them, while they are small and I need help tho they'll be fine. I will move them to my 3ft and 4ft tanks, and just keep 1 in there to keep on top. 

I think by adding these guys they can help me clear it, then I can concentrate on getting the nutrients light plant mix etc right and maturing the tank roud: 

What really scares me is my algae is pearling!!! Has anyone ever had this???


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## djlen (Sep 14, 2003)

Keep working at it and get your nutrients in spec. Get your traces and dose them.
Build your plant mass. You will, sooner or later starve the algae out.

Len


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