# Grendel's DIY ADA 90P



## Natasha (Nov 22, 2015)

Looks like a very exciting project! I'm a big fan of the blackwater biotopes, so I'll be keeping an eye out for your slow and steady progress!


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## Convict with convicts (Feb 26, 2016)

Love the tank idea. I've also wanted to do a South American blackwater tank for years also. You will make a few discus very happy in that layout. Good luck and post your progress.


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## gmdiaz (Feb 3, 2016)

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Love the ideas.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

First update: Turns out this thing could actually be an ADA tank! I did something totally novel (i.e. not at all) and actually measured the dimensions of the tank, which came out to 35.5x17.5x18. As far as my Google research says this is pretty much spot on with the dimensions of a 90-P so it looks like it's more like 48+ gallons than 40 and more "official" (if that matters to you).

Also, thanks for the feedback, folks. No discus in this thing, but yes - that's the sort of environment I'm hoping to create. Not a "true" biotope because the fish are from different rivers in South America and I'm sure I'll be adding plants from the wrong hemisphere, but "close enough for government work" (as my old man used to always say).

(Changing the thread title now...)


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## mot (Sep 17, 2011)

Yea that looks like an ada 90p to me. Congratulations on an amazing find!


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## gmdiaz (Feb 3, 2016)

What fish are you thinking to add?


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

mot said:


> Yea that looks like an ada 90p to me. Congratulations on an amazing find!


Thanks - and it really was amazing. The manager at the store had no idea how they ended up with the tank in the first place but she said it had been there for almost a year, with them dropping the price every few months with no takers. Still can't believe my luck.



gmdiaz said:


> What fish are you thinking to add?


Here's the list I posted before:


> dicrossus filamentosas, green neons, some cories (Sterbai? Trilineatus?), and a few otos and more curious algae eaters like farlowella/nannoptopoma/hypoptopoma.


So, all fish from different South American rivers but not truly a biotope list. 

Checkerboards (dicrossus) are some of my favorite fish ever, and every time I started making stocking lists I kept coming back to them yet again. Their color/personality/size are just such a great combo for a tank this size. *shrug*

To go with them I wanted a less common tetra and originally planned on keeping ruby tetras (axelrodia riesei) but I'm not sure they're very tight schoolers and they seem to lose their awesome color when kept in the aquarium so started looking elsewhere. I thought about pencilfish as an alternative, but the really cool looking ones are just too expensive for me to justify a big group. I've done cardinals and think they're great in a big school, but I really do want something new and it sounds like green neons are a good option. I think their blue/aqua color will look great against the woody/shadowy backdrop I'm planning and should accent the checkerboards nicely.

Cories are sort of mandatory in a SA tank IMO, and I love the smaller "weirdo" loricarids. Plecos creep me out a bit to be honest so while something like a rubberlip or bristlenose might fit the bill really well they're out - but the nannops/hypops should do perfectly.


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## gmdiaz (Feb 3, 2016)

OOOh, what interesting choices. I've never seen the dicrossus and nannoptopoma! Both are amazing. Might be hard to find here locally?


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

So I have a school of A. riesei and they look great. I have them in a school of 10 with another school of 10 N. margaritatus and they look fantastic with nice colors. 


In another tank, I have a pair of d. filamentosus with panda cories and they happy together. Also, there are 4 Laetacara sp. in the same tank without problems. Something to consider. Also nannostomus eques are great fish and look fantastic!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

gmdiaz said:


> OOOh, what interesting choices. I've never seen the dicrossus and nannoptopoma! Both are amazing. *Might be hard to find here locally?*


Yeah, there's the rub. I've previously ordered through the Wet Spot (Portland, OR) and they've delivered great fish, so I was already anticipating ordering through them again. If you never have, you should check out their stocklist and start drooling... www.wetspottropicalfish.com.



Hobbes1911 said:


> So I have a school of A. riesei and they look great. I have them in a school of 10 with another school of 10 N. margaritatus and they look fantastic with nice colors.
> 
> In another tank, I have a pair of d. filamentosus with panda cories and they happy together. Also, there are 4 Laetacara sp. in the same tank without problems. Something to consider. Also nannostomus eques are great fish and look fantastic!


So the a. riesei have held their cool red/orange color? How long have you kept them? A lot if the reports and images I've found online have pointed to that coloration fading over time, so if yours have stayed their original color that might make me come back around.

And do you have your pencilfish in an open-topped tank? I know they're often top-water swimmers and have a rep for carpet surfing, so I'd be a little worried about that... Having said that, both n. eques and marginatus seem reasonably priced and look very cool (I'm a sucker for "natural" looking fish and both fit that description perfectly).

And I found out why this tank was marked down so much - it's got a pretty good 2ish inch scratch near the top of one long side. I never would've noticed it in daylight, but where it's sitting it was backlit by some lamplight which highlighted perfectly when I was moving the tank around last night. I'll just flip that side to the back where it will be blocked by wood and plant growth. But that solves the "seems too good to be true" riddle.

Also: ordering some lightbulbs and window film tonight. Yay, progress! (Though finishing my plans for the stand build makes me realize how much work and time that part will probably take - good news is Spring Break is coming soon and I'll probably be able to dedicate large parts of a couple days to it since I won't be teaching).


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## gmdiaz (Feb 3, 2016)

Grendel said:


> Yeah, there's the rub. I've previously ordered through the Wet Spot (Portland, OR) and they've delivered great fish, so I was already anticipating ordering through them again. If you never have, you should check out their stocklist and start drooling... www.wetspottropicalfish.com.
> .


Really glad to hear good things about this site. I've been wondering.

They currently have the Dicrossus filamentosus "Checkerboard Cichlid" "Colombia"	1" WILD.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

I haven't found them to be particularly jumpy and yes they have held their color and are somewhat boisterous fish (well compared to the nannostomus). I've had them for 6+ months now I think. All the tanks I have are open top. So far I've lost 1 killifish to jumping and the odd amano shrimp (they are idiots). Go with the dicrossus. If you can find them tank raised that would be ideal since wild fish do need their low pH i've found. Give it a try!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

So, today I used one of the 3D printers our school is piloting and made ten of these...









Here's where they will go...









And here's what I'll add to them (along with some slices cut from a pool noodle)...









to create some floating "islands" for plants to grow on. With some thin branches of manzanita angling down below them and some bigger pieces shooting up out of the water in front of them, I'm hoping to create the appearance of a river's edge - sort of stark and true to a South American rio biotope (i.e. nearly plantless) below water, but super green and vibrant at the waterline and above.

I made the little white hooks with holes in them so I could use zip ties to attach the mesh, but now I'm thinking I could also stuff a bunch of something like one of the small hydrocotyle species into them and then set it off from the other island/s to create something like this effect...







.

Going to try and head up the river tomorrow to do some rock collecting too, so hopefully I come back with something interesting to post.

Thanks for looking!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

Nothing huge, but since things will be slow going on this for a while I figured I'd post every little bit of progress...

Here's what I accomplished today:


















I cut the plastic mesh into "islands" for emersed growth plants to grow from. They're about 4 inches deep by 13.5 inches long - that seemed like a decent amount of real estate when I was laying them out outside the tank, but hanging up inside they look a tad small. Also, I'm not sure about the symmetry but I'll consider it for a while to see if I'll end up liking it - I might end up trying a more triangular look that's actually connected to one side rather than just across the back.









Here's a close-up. I just used a hole-punch in a couple spots and fed zip-ties through them and through the holes in my hangers. Next step will be glueing (siliconing?) pieces of poly foam (think pool noodles) on the front edge so it'll stay afloat, then stems can be stuffed into each hole so their roots grow down into the water. Moss can be tied around off-cuts of mesh and then just laid on top, while bits of HC or monte carlo can be pushed in like the stems. I'm also planning on dropping a cutting of pothos or philodendron in the back on one end and letting it grow in a train across the whole back of the tank, but I understand their roots can be poisonous - not sure if/how that might affect fish or aquarium water. Anyone done something like that before? Issues? Advice?

Thanks for looking!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:
Got these in the mail today...









The thought of dropping my old crusty DIY acrylic or neon green Eheim pipes into this tank made me cringe, so I ordered these. They made it from Hong Kong to Colorado in nine days, which I have to say was a pleasant surprise - I was prepped to wait three weeks or so. 

I know the glass pipes are the sexy way to go but I also know that mine would've been in a thousand pieces within a week with how many times I have banged around my plastic pipes. These also have the upside of hiding the gunk build up and will match the lighting setup I'm planning perfectly.

Still slow going, unfortunately. Might pick up a bit here in the next week or two - keeping fingers crossed that I'll be able to post some lighting and stand updates soon.

Cheers!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Soooooo, after a long delay that included house projects, insurance claims, and other as yet unresolved issues, I finally got a free day to start on building my tank stand. I grabbed a couple sheets of 4x8 3/4 inch MDF, some screws, and glue and got to work.

I'm no Bob Villa, but I definitely know my way around basic power tools and have done some building and wood projects before... That said, nothing I did is revolutionary but hopefully by documenting it, someone else might feel encouraged/inspired/whatever to do their own DIY.

1. Cutting (no pictures because, you know, spinning blades).

2. Lots of gluing and clamping.









3. More gluing and clamping, with added screwing (hey now) and sanding. Here you can see the cut-outs for cords and filter hoses - grommets will complete the look later.









4. I used this stuff...








to get to this point.








I really like it for this application as it comes in powder form to which you add water to get the consistency you want to work with. For some spots I mixed up standard wood-fill thickness and used a putty knife, but for others I went more watery to paint on with a brush.

5. For added stability I lammed three inch cuts onto each interior corner, approximating the stability of 2x4's. I think it's strong enough without those, but better safe than sorry.








Then I used more Durhams to cover up the joins on the front...









6. Once everything was set and had a couple passes of sanding, I painted on more Durhams on every edge. If you've ever worked with MDF you know it has a tendency to crack, split, peel, etc. at the corners and edges, so this is step one to try to prevent that.









7. And here's step two - watered down wood glue painted on those same edges. I did a couple coats of the stuff.









8. Done with the building - next will be paint... But before that, I cracked open a little champagne to close out the day.









Thanks for looking - let me know what questions or ideas you have. Cheers!


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## han23 (Aug 5, 2016)

nice! can't wait to see the hardscape and everything.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Started painting...









Next step is slapping a coat of some sort of sealer on top... I've worked with and like polycrylic (water-based version of polyurethane), but I'm also looking into other options too - resins, marine varnish, etc. I'm a little worried that even with several solid coats of paint water will still get through to the MDF, which causes raised areas in the grain that really resist sanding.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

So, things slowed way down on this build during the fall season, but over the past few weeks I made some actual progress...




























I hit the painted areas with 4-8 coats of Varathane - 4 for vertical surfaces, 8+ for horizontal surfaces that will catch more water, which I'm hoping is enough to keep it reasonably water-proof. (Though I suppose I could keep going for more certainty.)

I built the doors from old barn wood salvaged from my wife's urban farm site - I grabbed old scrap 2x4s and ripped them with my tablesaw so they'd be the right thickness, then glued and screwed them into panels. These were then mounted with some soft-close Euro hinges. Still need to get the right pulls for them, but at this point the stand is essentially done. 

I've got everything on hand to set-up the overhanging lights but I need the tank in place to determine how high they need to be set, so for now I'm waiting for my yoga mat to arrive so I can use it as a tank pad (this was surprisingly difficult to source locally - everything was too thin and/or not black/gray that I needed) and then I can actually start assembling the tank...


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Grendel said:


> I've got everything on hand to set-up the overhanging lights but I need the tank in place to determine how high they need to be set, so for now I'm waiting for my yoga mat to arrive so I can use it as a tank pad (this was surprisingly difficult to source locally - everything was too thin and/or not black/gray that I needed) and then I can actually start assembling the tank...


I found the exact same thing! I had to drive to some weird sports department store to find a black yoga mat. All the stores closer to me were weird colours or too expensive for me to justify cutting it up for a tank. Out of all the things I needed for my tank it was the last thing that I thought that would be hard to find.
Anyway stand looks great and I'm excited to see this build really get going!




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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

I got my lights sorted.

First, I tracked down two of these from Ikea...








and added a couple PAR38 bulbs to them. Unfortunately, the bulbs are HEAVY and weighed down on the flexible neck, bending it over much too far. Here's my solution...

(I jammed a length of coat-hanger down the neck and clipped off the excess - worked like a charm).

After that, I mounted the lamps (minus the bases) on the back of my stand...

and then cut the cords and wired them into dimmer switches...

which I mounted on the inside top of the stand. I wired them so the cords could just connect to the powerstrip I mounted inside the stand.

This...

is the end result. 

So far, everything is turning out just like I envisioned when I started planning this project, which feels great. Next step is cutting my yoga mat so I can place the tank.

Thanks for looking!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Opare said:


> I found the exact same thing! I had to drive to some weird sports department store to find a black yoga mat. All the stores closer to me were weird colours or too expensive for me to justify cutting it up for a tank. Out of all the things I needed for my tank it was the last thing that I thought that would be hard to find.
> Anyway stand looks great and I'm excited to see this build really get going!


Yeah, I was amazed - I found absolutely NOTHING here in town that would work. Thank goodness for Amazon Prime - $15 + free two-day shipping = happy Grendel.

Thanks for the feedback - it's nice to be back in the swing of things after such a long break. I've got my fingers crossed things can keep going so well.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:
Got the tank situated...


And then started playing around with sand and rocks...


Waiting to order some manzanita until later this month, but this is the general idea I'm shooting for with the stones (and any critique or feedback would be appreciated, BTW). Cheers!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

First scape attempt with materials I have lying around...





Just playing with things at this point, seeing if anything piques my interest... I like the smooth, dark stones to contrast the sand - I know I'll be keeping those. I also know I need more sand, and I need to get some dark pebbles to match these rocks to help the visual transition from stones to sand. 

Would love feedback. Cheers!


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Looks good so far. Maybe that biggest rock is just a [/I]bit_ too big. Otherwise I like it!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Opare said:


> Looks good so far. Maybe that biggest rock is just a [/I]bit_ too big. Otherwise I like it!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk_


_
Yeah, looking at it now I think I agree... I like it as a focal point there, with the branches reaching from behind it, but it does seem pretty large and in charge. Maybe a little deeper sand or some smaller rocks arranged in front of it might help it seem less domineering. I'll mess around with it some more and post another pic when I get a chance.

Thanks for the feedback._


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Next...








Shifted the rock in the front left foreground back a little to try to make the giant rock seem smaller. Also added a few extra sticks to the mix. (Really need to get some more sand and some pebbles - I think that will help the big round rocks seem a little less big and round.)

This thing will also be lightly planted at the substrate, but in and around the rock pile will be some anubias nana, and there will be some other small plants poking around the stones too: crypts, lileaopsis, marsilea, etc. That might help as well.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Looks really good IMO. The largest rock definitely isn't as imposing.


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## biohazardQC (Sep 19, 2016)

are these lights gonna be enough?
they are slick!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Opare said:


> Looks really good IMO. The largest rock definitely isn't as imposing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks - I appreciate your comments. I'm still not 100% sold on it, but we'll see after I add a bit more material to it...



biohazardQC said:


> are these lights gonna be enough?
> they are slick!


They are 120 watt PAR38 bulbs - never used them before, but I know others have had some luck with them. I guess I'll find out as I go along.


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## tkblazer (Feb 20, 2010)

looking good so far! The lights look like a cool setup as well


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

tkblazer said:


> looking good so far! The lights look like a cool setup as well


Thanks. I really do hope they work all right, because I spent a lot of time figuring out how I was going to do them, then troubleshooting the setup. It would suck for all that work to be for nothing.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

Filled.








Leaves and wood are adding some tannins to the water - ended up adding more manzanita sticks to the mix. I wasn't sure about it all, but my wife really likes the root look (first time she's ever been remotely enthused about a fish tank). Next step: start cycling and get some plants!


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Really like the look of the scape. Great job!


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

agree with above comment  nice setup!


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## Maclyri (Mar 6, 2016)

I miss The Fish Crew so bad they're so helpful and such an awesome LFS! Have so much fun with your tank!!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Opare said:


> Really like the look of the scape. Great job!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, Opare. I'm pretty happy with it (though I am considering trying to shift everything to the right a bit).



BettaBettas said:


> agree with above comment  nice setup!


Thanks!



Maclyri said:


> I miss The Fish Crew so bad they're so helpful and such an awesome LFS! Have so much fun with your tank!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've only been in there a few times, since they opened while I was out of the hobby (I think TFC were the managers from D&G before it closed). They seem nice, and certainly hooked me up with a random ADA tank, so they'll always be pretty badass in my book.

Also, hopefully grabbing some plants from them this week (there used to be a pretty good group of FoCo folks RAOKing things through the Colorado section of TPT, but that seems dead now - too bad).


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## ScubaSteve (Jun 30, 2012)

I think it looks great! Love the doors on the stand.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

ScubaSteve said:


> I think it looks great! Love the doors on the stand.


Thanks - me too! They're salvaged barn wood from my wife's urban farm site. Old 2x4's somewhere between 100-150 years old that were headed for the trash when I nabbed them. So glad I could make something out of them.


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## Remmy (Jan 10, 2007)

Looks like its coming along nicely, im keen to see how your lights perform. i use floodlights with good success but these are definitely the more elegant option


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

So, I used some hot glue and foam to do this...


Then I hit the LFS and grabbed a few random plants so I could get to this...


Obviously not fully planted, but this shows the basic idea. On the big island there's some Monte Carlo along the front, some staurogyne behind it, and some r. rotundifolia at the back. I'll still need to get the rest of the plants I want to try this way (riccia, lysimachia, some hydrocotyle sp., some moss, etc.) and I need some stuff for the substrate (anubias nana or coffeefolia, l. mauritius, etc.).

Questions, comments, critiques all welcome. Thanks for looking!


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## AutumnSky (May 19, 2012)

Hey there, looking very nice. I have a few plants but not sure if they would fit your needs. Shoot me a PM. 

Love the barn wood and the lighting idea is looking great! Also there are great bargins at the Colorado Aquarium Society (CAS) mini auctions at every meeting. South Denver every 1st Friday of the month. Spring auction will be coming soon.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

AutumnSky said:


> Hey there, looking very nice. I have a few plants but not sure if they would fit your needs. Shoot me a PM.
> 
> Love the barn wood and the lighting idea is looking great! Also there are great bargins at the Colorado Aquarium Society (CAS) mini auctions at every meeting. South Denver every 1st Friday of the month. Spring auction will be coming soon.


Cheers! Thanks for the heads-up. What sorts of things are available at these mini-auctions? Fish? Plants? Hardscape materials? And I made a note of last year's Spring Auction but wasn't far enough along on this project to make it worthwhile... I'll definitely look into this year's.


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## AutumnSky (May 19, 2012)

Grendel said:


> Cheers! Thanks for the heads-up. What sorts of things are available at these mini-auctions? Fish? Plants? Hardscape materials? And I made a note of last year's Spring Auction but wasn't far enough along on this project to make it worthwhile... I'll definitely look into this year's.


Everything!!! From old tanks and stands to rock and gravel, to nicer items and lfs donate new fish and tank related items as well. The CAS orders in a variety of interesting fish too for the sale and there are breeders of just about every kind of fish who bring items to sell. There is more detailed info on the website 

Welcome to The Colorado Aquarium Society

Hundreds of things. 

Plus quick sale tables where used items or common items like plants say duck weed, or java moss or Vals, or aquarium lettuce ( misc variety of tank trimmings) used tanks and stands, gravel rock, plastic plants, air pumps, tubing, hob filters, etc, stuff people bought and never used like filter pads, certain container foods, bioballs. Small amount of misc SW.

Bring $$$ (or CC)! lol, there are always great bargains and some hard to find fish or plants.


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## jsarrow (Jun 10, 2008)

Great looking set up! Definitely add a farlowella catfish when your ready for fish, they are really cool the way they walk around on their pectoral fins and very peaceful.


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## Special_K (Oct 21, 2016)

Cool looking setup! One quick question, what did you put between the tank and the stand? Some kind of foam?


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Special_K said:


> Cool looking setup! One quick question, what did you put between the tank and the stand? Some kind of foam?


Thanks - I appreciate the feedback.

For under the tank, I just tracked down a plain black yoga mat and used that. I want to say it was 6mm (about 1/4 inch) foam, but I'm not 100% sure.

Bump:


jsarrow said:


> Great looking set up! Definitely add a farlowella catfish when your ready for fish, they are really cool the way they walk around on their pectoral fins and very peaceful.


Ha ha - farlowella is definitely already on the list. Here's what I posted originally as a fish wishlist...



Grendel said:


> The overall idea is a South American “biotopey” (see what I did there?) tank, with dicrossus filamentosas, green neons, some cories (Sterbai? Trilineatus?), and a few otos and more curious algae eaters like farlowella/nannoptopoma/hypoptopoma.


(Though now I'm debating going with black neons instead of greens, as I'll be able to easily source them locally).

Thanks for checking in too. Hopefully I'll start adding fish next week (just waiting for my plants to grow in a bit).


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## Special_K (Oct 21, 2016)

Grendel said:


> Thanks - I appreciate the feedback.
> 
> For under the tank, I just tracked down a plain black yoga mat and used that. I want to say it was 6mm (about 1/4 inch) foam, but I'm not 100% sure.


Yoga mat! Awesome idea! My wife is gonna kill me...>


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

FTS


Top of tank


I added some c. spiralis and isoetes sp. to the right side, and some a. nana to the rocks. REALLY kicking myself for that choice now too - I had chosen to go with a. coffeefolia but at the last second switched to the nana because I was worried the coffeefolia would get too large... Clearly I now have the opposite problem and the nana just looks tiny and insignificant. Aw well - here's hoping it fills in well.

You can also see that I switched out my hook/island combos for a raft attached to the driftwood. That's because the hooks ended up wicking water up over the top edge of the tank and down the back side, and I was delighted to find a couple gallons of water creeping out around the edges of the stand. The water went right down into the subfloor too, causing the wood floor boards to cup up pretty severely. Been running a fan and dehumidifier non-stop for the past week in the hopes that it will revert to normal eventually. Didn't even think it possible for the water to defy gravity like that, but the hooks must have gotten water under them and been just snug enough to create that wicking action.

Anyway, I aalso added plants to the raft: utricularia, hydrocotyle, ranunculus, and some h. pinnatifida. All plants that should do OK and look cool emersed. For some reason the existing plants have been really struggling. The rotala and staurogyne will do great for a couple days and then any good new growth will just fade and the cycle will repeat. Right now I'm thinking I need to up my fert dosing a bit, but I'm not exactly sure what else to consider.

I tossed in a couple fish last week as well. I went with black neons so they'd stand out against the lighter background and thus far I'm really pleased. They look robust, school well, and have a great glow to them when they're under the LEDs. I added five but will eventually get to 15 or so. Also added a couple otos - one went belly up right away even after a couple hours of drip acclimation, but the other seems pretty happy. Waiting for weather to be a bit warmer before ordering in some dicrossus and cories.

As always, feedback, thoughts, questions, etc. are all appreciated.

Thanks for looking!


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

The intial plants may still be getting used to the humidity levels of your house. I would just keep waiting it out. Upping your fertiliser dosing isn't too bad of a shout either.


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## AutumnSky (May 19, 2012)

Sorry to hear the floor took a soaking. Looks beautiful.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:









I know it looks like there's less plant-mass than the last picture, but that was all emersed crypt growth that has since melted and regrown. The new growth is coming in slowly, as expected, but steadily. I did lose a couple isoetes plants that melted completely, but the others are going strong - still have a few of the original leaves to shed, and new growth is much shorter and curved, but they look good.

I've been battling some brown hair-like algae for the past few weeks (maybe the filamentous type of diatoms?) and finally settled on the lights being the issue. They were about 8 inches above the surface plants, which resulted in really great growth from the lysimachia (which I plucked right out of my garden) and hydrocotyle, but also created a breeding ground for that algae in the moss and monte carlo growing there. I reduced the photoperiod to 6 hours and dimmed them (yay for installing a dimmer switch) but that didn't resolve it. So I stripped my floating mat, trimmed and cleaned up plants mercilessly, then bumped the lights up even further, approximately 16 inches from the surface. So far so good, but I'm a little worried that the isoetes won't end up with enough light (I figure the a. nana and c. spiralis will do fine).










QUESTIONS:
I've been losing frogbit like crazy. I've been bringing the filter outlet to the surface every night to help battle some surface protein film - is that agitation killing them? Or could it be the Metracide I'm adding as my glutaraldehyde source? Anyone have experience/wisdom here?

Surface film - any solutions other than agitating the surface? What tends to be the root cause of this stuff? I've found a surprising lack of consensus on ye olde internet...

Thanks for looking and I'd appreciate any feedback (especially to my questions) you have. Cheers!


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## AutumnSky (May 19, 2012)

Recently I got the film on a tank set up for awhile / Spec V, after I moved the spray directional lower as to make sure not to make excess noise when the water evaporates. It was more quiet, AND started with the glaze of oily film. I recently used StressCoat another item have not used in a long time. Stating that anecdotally.

Changed the spray upwards again and after a week it is nearly gone. Previously used good paper towels to help as well as better circulation at the surface.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

AutumnSky said:


> Recently I got the film on a tank set up for awhile / Spec V, after I moved the spray directional lower as to make sure not to make excess noise when the water evaporates. It was more quiet, AND started with the glaze of oily film. I recently used StressCoat another item have not used in a long time. Stating that anecdotally.
> 
> Changed the spray upwards again and after a week it is nearly gone. Previously used good paper towels to help as well as better circulation at the surface.


Thanks for the ideas - I've tried the paper towels and currently do the filter return at the water-line, but the film keeps coming back... I'd love to be able to tackle the root cause, but that seems really hard to pin down...


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

The solving thing with the film always tend to be surface skimmer, or increase agitation by a lot. I think it may be a build of stuff that the plants and bacteria excrete but I'm not sure.
As for frogbit issues, it did well eventhough I had a decent amount of flow going through it, but usually floaters and flow don't do well together. Metricide is always a decent culprit but I'm sure there are a fair few online who dose Excel etc. with frogbit. I also had the occasional Excel use and I was seeing holes in the frogbit but I think that was mainly due to overcrowding of it. I think Excel was giving my Crypts trouble though. This is all just speculation. You may have to do a bit of trial and error.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Opare said:


> The solving thing with the film always tend to be surface skimmer, or increase agitation by a lot. I think it may be a build of stuff that the plants and bacteria excrete but I'm not sure.
> As for frogbit issues, it did well eventhough I had a decent amount of flow going through it, but usually floaters and flow don't do well together. Metricide is always a decent culprit but I'm sure there are a fair few online who dose Excel etc. with frogbit. I also had the occasional Excel use and I was seeing holes in the frogbit but I think that was mainly due to overcrowding of it. I think Excel was giving my Crypts trouble though. This is all just speculation. You may have to do a bit of trial and error.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's funny - since I posted my comments about the protein film it's not come back at all... Previously it would start to return within a few hours, but at this point it's been four days and counting and there's not even a hint of it. I didn't do anything different - maybe it was just something that the tank had to work through on its own.

I also reconfigured things and managed to create a totally still little lagoon behind my floating raft - I tucked all the tiny struggling bits of frogbit there after last water change and that seems to have done the trick... They are throwing new leaves all over the place and seem to be reviving well. I'll chalk up the troubles to "flow" for now.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

So, long overdue update... Over the summer my daughter and I traveled with some of my students to New Zealand, Australia, and Fiji (all amazing in their own way, BTW) and while I was gone, I asked my oldest son to feed fish and plants and top off the water while I was gone. I must have accidentally bumped the dimmers on the lamps because when we got back virtually every plant on the top of the tank was dead or dying.

I set up an emersed tenner in the basement and slowly nursed the little bits and pieces I managed to save back to health, but it was sloooooow going. I was only able to get a decent amount of plant mass put back in on my little rafts at the beginning of November, and after a readjustment period, here's where it's at:


















with that stupid Elf as a bonus here - not sure why, but I hate that thing to an irrational degree (though my eight year old loves it).

Almond leaves are out until I actually get my actual fish stock in (which I've been waiting on until I got the plants back, and now I'm waiting on until the weather warms up). The leaves degrade pretty quickly and it's just not worth it for the black neons by themselves. 

Speaking of those guys, they had a spate of suicides over the tank edge to bring their numbers down but they also managed to breed on me somehow - I found one tiny little blue/black glimmer of a fry swimming around the base of the crypts one day and watched as it grew and grew and grew. Now it's just one of the crew. Not sure about the specifics of breeding for black neons, but it was pretty cool - I've had fry from other species before, but have never tried to foster them and have (probably unsurprisingly) never had them grow to maturity. 

Anyway, it might not look like much but that's a pretty dense pile of ammania capitellata on top, with a few bits of cardimine lyrata, staurogyne, moss, and hemianthus micranthemoides growing around the edges. It's hard to get a decent close up shot of the island because of the lights but I'll give it another try once I get my hands on a decent camera.

As always, any feedback is good feedback. Cheers!


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## AutumnSky (May 19, 2012)

Sorry about the bad side to a fun holiday away. Tank looks okay. You have got the plants coming back well.

I grew up with that Elf (wearing a green outfit) but never knew the story of it being a creepy stalker, until a few years ago. Don't know how one can go for over 45 years and not know that, having kids too (wow!!!). I thought it just sat on a tree branch or shelf. 

Big congrats on the success of getting an adult Black Neon. Fish do seem to like when we stop messing with the tanks and let things mellow. Numerous times friends have reported these circumstances.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

Loooooooong overdue, too. Had a bit of a die off which forced me to scavenge as many tiny scraps of the plants as I could and nurse them slowly back to health in my 10G emersed setup over the course of 3-4 months. Eventually I had enough to reset the top island (with a couple new additions), which is just new settling in and looking better IMO. The pothos has been divided and is thriving now, plus I added an anthurium sp., dracaena, and an emersed sword from Petsmart to some kitchen caddy planters that are hanging on the back glass. Finally starting to seem a bit more like the overhanging riverbank I've been shooting for all along.


In addition, I got my dicrossus filamentosus finally! I was putting off ordering from The Wet Spot until summer was over, then I had to wait until the tank was back in shape... And in the interim I just happened upon these guys at the LFS (shout out to The Fish Crew) during an awesome Black Friday sale and pounced. They were so tiny I was worried they wouldn't make it but they seem to be doing great. Can't wait for them to mature and color up a bit.


At any rate, here are some current pics. Enjoy! (And any feedback you have is appreciated!)


P.S. Anybody know WTF is going on with the TPT photo upload tool? It seems totally FUBAR from my end...



FTS










TOP










NEW FISH










BEST VIEW IN THE HOUSE


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## AutumnSky (May 19, 2012)

The island is looking great now. 

Looks like a great view for sure!


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## WetLeaf (Oct 14, 2017)

Love the build, the stand is beautiful and the light brackets to the dimmer is fantastic!

great job overall on the whole setup very inspiring, hopefully your plants bounce back


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

WetLeaf said:


> Love the build, the stand is beautiful and the light brackets to the dimmer is fantastic!
> 
> great job overall on the whole setup very inspiring, hopefully your plants bounce back


 Thanks. I mentioned it back at the beginning of this journal, but the lighting has been 100% guesswork - but it seems to working out OK!


(The hardest thing by about a million miles has been figuring out how to transition plants from aquatic growth to emersed growth... All the examples I used as models seemed to have such an easy time, but I threw away waaaaaay too much money via plants that never made it, and I STILL have trouble with some of the plants.)


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:

Added some new fish: more black neons + two farlowellas. Everybody seems to be doing great thus far, so keeping fingers crossed that they keep on keeping on...



















The island...









This water lettuce was three leaves total a couple weeks ago - now, it's this on both ends of the island...









I really love the way the lobelia cardinalis is growing in. It starts this nice maroon, then greens up as it comes in...


















Next steps: want to add some ficus pumila and spathiphyllum "petite" to the emersed planters, plus some sort of corydoras and otocinclus to the fish team...


As always, any feedback is appreciated. Thanks for looking.


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## AguaScape (Oct 28, 2018)

Love the modern and rustic combo you achieved with your stand. Looks great. Lights have a great look as well. I really like the shot you took from the kick back perspective (really shows what you are looking at while relaxing and enjoying your tank). The mismatched socks are a great touch as well. I had my doubts about the floating island concept, but it really has come in nicely. Well Done. Noticed the bloom on the anubias was red. I have had a couple blooms on my anubias in submerged state and they are always white.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

AguaScape said:


> Love the modern and rustic combo you achieved with your stand. Looks great. Lights have a great look as well.


That's exactly the look I was shooting for, so I'm glad you like it. This tank is centered between windows at the front of the house, which means the eye naturally goes to it - so I needed everything about it to fit the design of the rest of the house.





> The mismatched socks are a great touch as well.


Ha ha - never noticed that myself...




> I had my doubts about the floating island concept, but it really has come in nicely. Well Done. Noticed the bloom on the anubias was red. I have had a couple blooms on my anubias in submerged state and they are always white.


 Believe me, I've had my doubts as well. It's definitely been a struggle to get everything growing well up top, but things really turned a corner when I set up an old ten gallon tank as an emersed grow-out. It's allowed me to transition submerged-growth plants and beef up plants from those Tropica "1-2 Grow" cups also. TBH I think our low humidity here plays a role in how difficult it has been...


Also, that red bloom is from the anthurium cutting I added to the back, not an anubias (I actually don't have any emersed anubias in this set up). It's the tall plant with heart-shaped leaves below the lefthand light. And if you look closely you can see I DO have a couple of the normal white anubias flowers under the water.


Thanks for the feedback!


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Amano shrimp + otos added today. And while some cories would be great, I think I might be done at this point. Tank seems appropriately active and full, and I worry a little about going overboard.

Never had shrimp before - they're like little machines moving across the substrate and wood! I worried for a minute that my curious dicrossus were going to try their hand (fin?) at shrimp-snacks, but they seem to have figured out they're not food at this point...


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Have you thought about attaching java moss at a few spots along the branches? I think java moss would grow well in your tank.

I really like the top and bottom portions of the tank, but I feel it's a little stark in the middle as there's no green. I'm no expert in aquascaping, so take my recommendations with a grain of salt, plus what's important is what looks good to you.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Have you thought about attaching java moss at a few spots along the branches? I think java moss would grow well in your tank.
> 
> I really like the top and bottom portions of the tank, but I feel it's a little stark in the middle as there's no green. I'm no expert in aquascaping, so take my recommendations with a grain of salt, plus what's important is what looks good to you.


There's actually some fissidens moss on many of the branches, but it's not grown in very well as yet. I also have plenty of Taiwan moss (I think) growing on the island beneath other plants, so I could always take some from there... That said, the empty middle is sort of what I'm trying to achieve with this tank. Not strictly a biotope (which would mean sand, sticks, and dead leaves pretty much exclusively) but biotopeISH. I do agree with you though - it's hard for me to resist adding more plants below water.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Grendel said:


> I do agree with you though - it's hard for me to resist adding more plants below water.


I how exactly how you feel about this, I'm the same way. Way too many plants, and not enough aquarium space!

Keep posting photos, it's fun to see how your tank progresses.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:
It's been awhile, but this thing is still plugging along. I, uh, got a little neglectful and accidentally let the tank look like THIS for too long...









Those two tall lobelia cardinalis plants ended up flowering (poorly) and their root systems were so robust they sank my mesh island! It was a huge mess, but looked pretty cool from a distance. Needless to say, I had to get things sorted eventually, so here's what it looks like today...


















Much more orderly, IMO. Most of the plants got extremely leggy and a bit ratty looking when they grew too large, so much of the emersed plant mass actually ended up in the compost bin. I lost most of my salvinia through lack of adequate fertilizer (I wasn't very consistent fertilizing and didn't really up my dosing when I did), but there's a bit hanging around that I hope bounces back. The anubias nana, on the other hand, seemed to thrive through neglect. Those things are just monsters, throwing new leaves and flowering over and over no matter the tank conditions.

Here's the fauna crew:








9 black neons
5 checkerboards
1 farlowella (lost the other inexplicably a few months back)
3 otos
4 amano shrimp

Thanks for looking!


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Beautiful. I think you should keep on neglecting! The edit looks good too.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

Streetwise said:


> Beautiful. I think you should keep on neglecting! The edit looks good too.


Thanks for the feedback! I think the tank generally looks best when I keep it right around a casual level of care: mostly sticking to a regular feeding/fertilizing schedule, trimming here and there, H2O change gap no bigger than 10-14 days (I also only occasional keep the IAL in the water, because they deteriorate so dang fast)... If it goes beyond that it's a chore to clean up because the plants get pretty crazy pretty fast. I think the emersed growth just makes for a lot more efficient uptake of nutrients, which definitely plays a role.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

A cool surprise - a flower off my hydrocotyle leucocephala.


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

UPDATE:








After a couple years of the no-CO2, mostly emersed set-up, I got a spiffy new CO2 regulator (thanks, @flowerfishs!), reconnected my old PVC reactor, refilled my empty 5 lb. tank and switched things up in this tank. Excited to see where things go from here...

Flora is mostly what I had before: a. nana, c. spiralis, a little java fern, a random sword plant (I think maybe e. osiris), and a tiny bit of c. parva. After a trip to the LFS I was able to add c. calamistratum (love this plant), hairgrass and mayaca too.

As for inhabitants, I had two issues: a black neon suicide streak and a die-off of my beloved dicrossus 😢. So there's almost a clean slate to start with. I'm holding out hope that I can source some more checkerboards, but will also be adding cardinals (need some bright color against the dark background) and some more paleatus cories.


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## prjct92eh2 (Apr 8, 2008)

Looks very nice! I'm setting up my first tank in Colorado. Do you do anything special for our hard water? What local stores have you found to have a good selection of freshwater fish and plants?


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

prjct92eh2 said:


> Looks very nice! I'm setting up my first tank in Colorado. Do you do anything special for our hard water? What local stores have you found to have a good selection of freshwater fish and plants?


Thanks!

Where exactly are you? Up here in Fort Collins I just use straight tap water, no adjusting whatsoever. In fact, I'm not sure I've even thought about hardness in years... I just add CO2 plus plenty of ferts and let 'er rip. Seems to work out OK, but I don't know the relative hardness of water in other parts of the state.

As for stores, I've got a good one here in The Fish Crew - good variety of fish, tons of plants, etc. (Also where I got this "scratched" ADA tank for cheap, so I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for them). I've also hit up Aqua Imports in Boulder for fish and hardscape materials, and Animal Attraction in Greeley for fish. Other than a few random stops into Petco/Petsmart, that's pretty much it anymore.


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## AutumnSky (May 19, 2012)

Looks good so far! Are you doing an island again or heading off with the plants that appreciate CO2 (or both)?


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## Grendel (Jan 17, 2003)

AutumnSky said:


> Looks good so far! Are you doing an island again or heading off with the plants that appreciate CO2 (or both)?


Thanks! Everything will be growing underwater this time. (Though I'm already looking at getting another rimless tank from the LFS and doing a more traditional emersed setup for my office  - I still love the riverbank look.)


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## prjct92eh2 (Apr 8, 2008)

Grendel said:


> Where exactly are you? Up here in Fort Collins I just use straight tap water, no adjusting whatsoever. In fact, I'm not sure I've even thought about hardness in years... I just add CO2 plus plenty of ferts and let 'er rip. Seems to work out OK, but I don't know the relative hardness of water in other parts of the state.


I'm on the south side of Denver burbs in Parker. it's only been two weeks so far, but tap water (after going through our water softener) seems to be fine so far. I'll have to see long term how it goes.


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