# BGA...again...edited version:



## Aurie (Jun 3, 2013)

I had some BGA in my 10 gallon due to my WCMM having babies.. 27 fish in 10 gallons.. ACK. I tried feeding the babies powdered food and not enough water changes. I tried a black out period but nothing helped. All I could do was manual removal every day. Lots of vacuuming (I had gravel and the poop never seemed to stop coming up) and I treated with EM. I did the whole 10 day regime and it cleared it up. The water before this smelled like a swamp, after it was good and well, normal. I then went to sand. Easier to clean and "crap" doesn't get accumulated as easy.

I hope this helps. There might be other ways to treat it, but from the googling I did during that time it is usually caused by high organics (in my case food and poop) and after I rehomed the babies my tank was right as rain


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Aurie said:


> I had some BGA in my 10 gallon due to my WCMM having babies.. 27 fish in 10 gallons.. ACK. I tried feeding the babies powdered food and not enough water changes. I tried a black out period but nothing helped. All I could do was manual removal every day. Lots of vacuuming (I had gravel and the poop never seemed to stop coming up) and I treated with EM. I did the whole 10 day regime and it cleared it up. The water before this smelled like a swamp, after it was good and well, normal. I then went to sand. Easier to clean and "crap" doesn't get accumulated as easy.
> 
> I hope this helps. There might be other ways to treat it, but from the googling I did during that time it is usually caused by high organics (in my case food and poop) and after I rehomed the babies my tank was right as rain


Well I'm very lightly stocked but a clue popped up in what you said. I have yet to develop a colony of scuds in there and this food for them
would eliminate my having to fed them frozen bloodworms. They don't handle it well yet, not accustomed I guess. The other one I had took
to it rather easily but these don't, yet. That leaves a small quantity of it on the bottom of the tank which decays...organics in the water I guess.
Hardly any "other" organics in this tank. Fish waste from two fish similar to but slimmer and a tad shorter than cherry barbs who are having
a hard time getting enough food, not starved but not fat either..can't be much poop there. So now I've introduced a couple of RCS to supply
them/w something(shrimp fry) to eat more frequently than they've had.
Mechanical removal of the BGA is limited to large pieces for want of not disturbing things in there but may take it up as a hobby(LOL) to help
the "other organics" and help stop it from spreading till I no longer need to feed bloodworms.
Also my bio-filter has silt in one of the media's so cleaning that out will enhance the bio capacity so it won't have any more of ammonia
or nitrites. Nitrates are taken care of by the double strength water changes(more than 2x the suggested amount) and the duckweed.
The plants are now growing and the more they do the more they consume also.
Thanks for the reply. I thought more would have had this issue and replied but likely not till the weekend.


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## Aurie (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm up till 2am every night doing algae research for my Bba and gsa problem and setting up a 55 and a 6.6. Learning different ferts chemical names.. I do my best lol. I can only relate my experience in the past. I am not an expert in any way. Still learning

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## Dantrasy (Sep 9, 2013)

Consider chemiclean. it knocks off blue green algae pretty good. yes, it can be used in freshwater planted tanks (the one in the blue packaging). bga is gone in a few days max.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Dantrasy said:


> Consider chemiclean. it knocks off blue green algae pretty good. yes, it can be used in freshwater planted tanks (the one in the blue packaging). bga is gone in a few days max.


And have you heard if it affect RCS ? A Petco item perhaps ? I can always replace the RCS after two 50% water changes
to get it out of the tank.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Could hardly follow your post ,all over the place .First you say heavily stocked,overfed,then later ,,lightly stocked.Is this algae happening in two tank's or just one?
Are both ten gal tank's?? high tech? If so,,Poor CO2 delivery or flow throughout the tank may be contributing.
If T5 lighting is being used over ten gal tank (s), this would produce quite a bit of light ,floating plant's or none, and CO2 may not be as efficient or as much as you might think.(with no CO2, I would use T8 bulb's)
Reduced lighting period to six hour's per day would I think,, create less demand by plant's for CO2 and nutrient's ,and would maybe be what I would try while observing the effect's over a period of a few week's (the stuff won't go away overnight).
Reduced food entering the tank's is good move, along with keeping filter's clean.
Removing hardscape and scrubbing the BBA off where I could,removing affected leaves would also help I think (never hurt's). 
Fertilizer routine need's to be consistent when using CO2 or CO2 supplement's for the demand from plant's will be much more than low tech NonCO2.Macro nutrient's NPK, and micro's can be purchased dry (Greenleaf aquarium's.com) and lot's of formula's on the web for EI (estimative index dosing for high tech tank's)
Hope some of this help's.Have dealt with this particular alage in low tech affair's and save for adjusting CO2 which I don't use,,my method above for dealing with it work's fairly well.


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## Dantrasy (Sep 9, 2013)

Yep, I've dosed chemiclean in a tank with cherries with no ill effects. 

The packaging says 'Safe for reef tanks, all invertebrates, desirable macro algaes, nitrifying bacteria and fish'. 

I'm in Australia, we don't have petco, but i know what you mean. They might sell it.

It was recommended to me when I was just starting out with planted tanks (a few years ago), and haven't looked back.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I changed the info in the beginning of the thread so people can read it with less confusion. I do tend to add "other info".
I have one tank/w BGA and should not have added info about the other one which doesn't.
I appreciate all the replies so far and now perhaps more people can clearly understand what the issue is
and therefor give me some feedback. Thank you "roadmaster" for alerting me to this.


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

Erythromycin is your friend. Blackouts hurt weakened plants wich leads to another algae breakout


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## JeffHerr (Mar 12, 2010)

+1 to dzega


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Can treat symptom's with blackout's,Excel,etc,etc, but until one figures out root cause, then you will be forever be treating the tank for various form's of algae.
Researching cause nearly alway's comes down to not enough CO2,fertz, for lighting being used.
Is the light that drives everything from plant's perspective. More light,,more demand for CO2,fertz.IMHO


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

roadmaster said:


> Can treat symptom's with blackout's,Excel,etc,etc, but until one figures out root cause, then you will be forever be treating the tank for various form's of algae.
> Researching cause nearly alway's comes down to not enough CO2,fertz, for lighting being used.
> Is the light that drives everything from plant's perspective. More light,,more demand for CO2,fertz.IMHO


Where as BGA is not an algae but a bacteria, I've concentrated my efforts in another aria. But...I am not overlooking that part.
I'm just learning this plant thing and due to lack thereof, have found it acceptable to do dual T8 bulbs in that tank and right now
I'm constructing a thread in "Plants" to address lowering light levels by various methods. One/not enough...two/too many.
And actually have gone through several bulb types to find balance in that aria as far as I can take that aspect of it.
The primary(please critique this) focus for BGA seems to be a general overall health issue/w your tank. This is my focus at the 
moment and I have(just last night) cleaned my DIY built in bio-filter of anything that might hinder it's effect on water quality.
Overfeeding is the next aria to be addressed. Pigmy sunfish won't eat flakes/live only..except that frozen bloodworms they
might eat. Some get used to them, some give me a hard time on them. I have to overfeed to insure their getting ANYTHING to
eat. The overall health of the tank will enable me better to colonize the tank/w daphnia to solve this issue. Meanwhile a good
vacuuming of the left overs has been instigated.
So...your thoughts on this are appreciated to be sure/to say the least. And ANY critique is welcomed.
I have begun a process which I hope to be a remedy for this BGA thing, as my other tank has never had BGA and is by far
more healthier than this tank even though overstocked, but has been established for about 2 years now. This one is months
old instead of years.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Blue green algae (or bacteria if you like) proliferates through photosynthesis according to literature.Cleanliness of the tank in general,along with regular filter maint is alway's a good thing but I also believe that reducing lighting either in intensity,or duration,or both ,can slow it's proliferation while you get a handle on thing's like stepped up maint,reduced organic matter,proper CO2 distribution,flow or lack thereof.
For some,,their advice alway's seem's to be CO2 related (need more,not enough flow,etc)
but for me,,I cannot adjust CO2 for it is what it is in my low tech affair's so other method's of harrasing it were/are explored.
Being as how it is the light that drives photosynthesis ,,,this is what I adjusted first.
Less light slow's down the machine, and gave me time to reduce surface disturbance so as not to drive off what little natural CO2 production I have through bacterial process,fish respiration. Increase plant mass (fast grower's),regular maint,decrease organic input,establish that plant's had consistent supply of nutrient's both macro-micro,remove affected hardscape item's and clean,remove affected leave's or plant's,harrass the remainig algae(bacteria).
Hard to realize the cummulative effect's of all of this if still bombarding the tank with too much light,poor CO2 delivery, for plant's will alway's struggle in this scenario = prime condition's for algae of all kind's.
Just my two cent's from my own observation's.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

So it's still dependent on light. Intensity and or duration. Good that clarifies things for me. I (would like to think
that I) have a low tech tank because I don't do/want Co2 or DIY Co2. It's a cost related thing in the injected and
a to much fluctuation thing in the DIY thing. Besides I just plain don't want fast plant growth.
I do like lots of visible light in my tank and WOULD like full healthy looking plants. So without knowing the first 
thing about it I started trying this and that. Mostly light related, as in ramp it up..yea...dumb but makes the plants
more full and better visible in there.
So lowering the hrs will help till the tanks health is better...will start there but after today for want of answers to my
thread in "Plants" on this light thing. Reduce it now by means of duckweed on the top which is one way that
is recommended in an article about EI on the ferts Macro/Micro site/Dosing/Barr report.
For want of visible light, and lack of knowledge of proper use of ferts/Excel, I fell into that one bulb/not enough
two bulbs/too much thing and have always used two bulbs. And I clean my front glass every week because of.
It's on about 9.75 hrs now so about 7.5 should do for a start.
Thanks once again...


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Raymond S. said:


> This ten G tank has T8 lights and has two fish and like 3 RCS in it so how is it not right ?


Huh?



Raymond S. said:


> Tank/w BGA...Eco-Complete over API Pure Laterite...dosed at water changes/w Leaf Zone/Pride Excel @ factory suggested level every third day
> so not much at all of it in there. Very low stocking level...Aqvisor says 42% but/w substituted fish as fish not on list.


So you dose Leaf Zone, Excel, and I assume Flora Pride? I've never heard of Pride Excel.

Getting rid of BGA is easy as well as most algae. BGA will respond to blackouts and antibiotics. However, killing algae never addresses the root cause. It will return over and over until the problem is corrected. So forget about how to kill algae and concentrate on what causes it.

BGA usually appears in tanks with high organics and low water flow. The fix for these are pretty obvious if they exist. Don't overfeed and increase water flow in the water column.

That said the best method to control most forms of algae is good horticulture. Concentrate on growing healthy plants and the issues that cause algae correct themselves. In your case the nutrient levels are wrong. Leaf zone and Flora pride contain few nutrients.

Tetra Flora Pride,
Soluble Potash (K2O) 3.00% Iron (Fe) 0.19% Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0005% 

Leaf Zone,
Soluble potash (K20) 3.00%, Iron (Fe) 0.10%, Chelated Iron (Fe) 0.10%

Basically, they are the same thing...Pottasium and iron. 

There are MANY more nutrients that plants need. The most necessary are Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. You are clearly missing one of those, nitrogen indicated by a nitrate of near zero.

I would suggest exploring fertilizing methods such as Estimative index or Perpetual preservation systems. Your plants will never thrive until you at least provide the basics... light, nutrients and carbon. When you have a system balanced for good plant growth the algae will be far less of a concern.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I appreciate the feedback. I also have Flourish Comprehensive but realize that's incomplete also. Working on getting some
better ferts, perhaps that Macro/Mirco Mix but frankly it's more than just started to eat me out of house and home.
And I thought that by only having two ten G tanks I'd minimize the expense...LOL...


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Nilocg sells dry fertilizers here. For $20 you can get everything seperate so you can tailor each nutrient. That price includes shipping btw. That should be enough fertilizers to last two 10 gallons for years to come. Check out the for sale section and search for his name. There is no cheaper way to go then dry ferts.


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## ljapa (Jul 23, 2013)

My unscientific insights on the BGA in my tank.

But first, my tank is very abnormal. I have a 55gallon with a Red Eared Slider turtle and a few black neon tetras. That is connected to a 55 gallon acting as a refugium that has tons of biomedia in one section and a heavily planted section with RCS, neon tetras, cories, snails and floaters. 

The turtle tank has no plants, because they'd get ripped to shreds and eaten. There's also a Fluval 406 on the turtle tank to pull off the turtle waste, but the turtle dumps lots of waste. So, even though I have biomedia and plants sucking up waste and nitrates at 10, I definitely have a heavy bioload. The only frets I have are flourish root tabs in the refugium. 

I have no BGA in the refugium. And I have no BGA in the basking area side of the turtle tank. The basking area has strong UVB lights, but almost none of that hits the tank. 

I do have some BGA on the side that has a hood with a stock T8 in it. 

Now, I had the tank set up for 8 months with no BGA. It actually started after I added the floaters. Before that, my nitrates hovered around 20. Soon after they were closer to 10 and I had BGA. I get small patches on the sand and sheets on the acrylic inside the overflow, where there's definitely high flow and likely higher oxygen. 

I've not been able to get rid of it, but the way I keep it under control is when the patches are getting too big or too many, I turn the hood light off for a week. I'll also add a little hydrogen peroxide in the overflow at the same time when the overflow is off during the weekly water change. 

The peroxide wipes out what's in the overflow and the lights out causes the BGA to disappear. Once the lights go back on, I may have to do the same thing in 3 or 4 weeks. 

Remember, I had no problems until my nitrates dropped. I don't thing that was the cause, but I think that was the final change that allowed it to bloom.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

ljapa said:


> My unscientific insights on the BGA in my tank.
> 
> But first, my tank is very abnormal. I have a 55gallon with a Red Eared Slider turtle and a few black neon tetras. That is connected to a 55 gallon acting as a refugium that has tons of biomedia in one section and a heavily planted section with RCS, neon tetras, cories, snails and floaters.
> 
> ...


Interesting how anything might start it. And you have it in a place that fits how they say to fix it too...faster current.
Seems I get one reply after another which gives different conditions for it to exist...so likely I shouldn't get too upset about it.
It will leave as I improve the overall health of the tank. It did in the other ten G. I cut the hrs of light from almost 10 to almost 8.
Thanks for the reply.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Zorfox said:


> Nilocg sells dry fertilizers here. For $20 you can get everything seperate so you can tailor each nutrient. That price includes shipping btw. That should be enough fertilizers to last two 10 gallons for years to come. Check out the for sale section and search for his name. There is no cheaper way to go then dry ferts.


For a while I'm going to rely on Flourish Comprehensive for the Micro's(and if I'm using these terms incorrectly please
say something to me about it) so all I want for now is what is missing...those three main things..nitrogen/Phosphates
and Potasium.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Raymond S. said:


> Interesting how anything might start it. And you have it in a place that fits how they say to fix it too...faster current.
> Seems I get one reply after another which gives different conditions for it to exist...so likely I shouldn't get too upset about it.
> It will leave as I improve the overall health of the tank. It did in the other ten G. I cut the hrs of light from almost 10 to almost 8.
> Thanks for the reply.


 
I understand your confusion. This stuff really doesn't care much about flow for it appear's in high tech tank's as well, where folk's generally have ten x the flow needed for their size tank. I have had it appear in both condition's.
Believe much of the same thing is being said,just in different way's.
General tank maint,remove what you can,good macro-micro nutrient routine which can be scaled back from Full EI.
Controlled /decreased organic input, which should not be too hard in ten gal with few fishes.
Reduce light duration and or intensity. I realize your only using T8 bulb's but they may be hurting effort's at the moment more than they are helping especially if more than one bulb over the tank, and or too many watt's which still has some merit with T8 bulb's and somewhat antiquated watt's per gallon rule.
Small volumes of water are alway's more easily affected by negatives than larger volumes of water, but same method's for dealing with the negatives can be applied in my opinion.
Co2 or supplement's, will alway's increase the demand for more nutrient's if plant's are to do well.
Flourish comprehensive will make good trace mineral supply but if macro nutrient's are in short supply,the plant's flounder,and algae which need's much less nutrient's to thrive,,will be persistent problem. IME
with the above suggestion's by other's and myself,,the problem does not need to keep one from enjoying a nice planted tank.
Your move.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

roadmaster said:


> I understand your confusion. This stuff really doesn't care much about flow for it appear's in high tech tank's as well, where folk's generally have ten x the flow needed for their size tank. I have had it appear in both condition's.
> Believe much of the same thing is being said,just in different way's.
> 
> Reduce light duration and or intensity. I realize your only using T8 bulb's but they may be hurting effort's at the moment more than they are helping especially if more than one bulb over the tank, and or too many watt's which still has some merit with T8 bulb's and somewhat antiquated watt's per gallon rule.
> ...


I'm right there with you on everything you said. My T8's are an old obsession from the start of my tank issues. Tho old one/not enough,
two is too much thing. So for years now I've been trying to balance them(by trying different brands etc) without knowing about the
balance thing/w ferts/Co2/lights. Now that I joined a forum I still retain the experience I got/w manipulating the bulbs.
Adding that to my new knowledge of the "other" things I need and we'll see...
Admittedly I have two tanks(ten G each) both of which have overkill in the light dept. Should I admit I did this...why not...one has
two T8 bulbs in separate strips but the other has a T5 fixture on it. Had T8's on that one but heard you guys talking about the T5's
and just had to try one...right...on a ten G/w the bulbs 11" from the sub. So now you know why this dummy is having problems...LOL...


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