# Pfertz vs ADA Fertz



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I have no experience with ADA's fertilizers, but I use Pfertz on both my tanks. It seems to work well.

I give one squirt of each bottle twice a week. Each bottle will probably last me about two years, so it works out to be much cheaper than Seachem ferts.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I just mixed up my dry ferts into a solution took all of a minute or two to do it.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> I have no experience with ADA's fertilizers, but I use Pfertz on both my tanks. It seems to work well.
> 
> I give one squirt of each bottle twice a week. Each bottle will probably last me about two years, so it works out to be much cheaper than Seachem ferts.


Yea I been reading good hings about Pfertz compared to the ADA fertz.

Only twice a week? Is that because you have a small tank?


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

2in10 said:


> I just mixed up my dry ferts into a solution took all of a minute or two to do it.


That is interesting. I just did not want to do all the mixing and diluting work, even though it only takes a few minutes to do. I like the idea of just pumping out fertz in a nice bottle.. lol...


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Uptown193 said:


> Only twice a week? Is that because you have a small tank?


That, plus they're not too heavily planted - just carpet plants (they're both iwagumi style).

You really don't need to dose more than once every 2-3 days. You can control the dosage amount (based on tank size) by adjusting the number of squirts each time.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

2in10 said:


> I just mixed up my dry ferts into a solution took all of a minute or two to do it.


 fert dosing bottles make things even simpler than pumping that liquid soap bottles. just squeze and pour. plus you can wash and reuse the bottle. much cheaper and easyier than paying for water to be shipped to your house every few months.


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## JRMott (Jul 30, 2010)

Uptown193 said:


> I am to busy for all that stuff.


Spoken like a true New Yorker!

I use rootmedic liquid ferts and root tabs and have been happy. If you haven't already consider them I would recommend you do. 'Overstocked' runs the company, is very active on the forum, and has always been great to deal with in my experience.

In any event, whether you go with Pfertz, ADA, or Rootmedic, I think the products are going to be similarly good.

I don't know about ADA, but Rootmedic uses less bottles than Pfertz, so if you're really concerned with time, it's 2 bottles to dose all nutrients vs 4 bottles for Pfertz.


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

If you want to give it a try, buy my ada set


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

jreich said:


> fert dosing bottles make things even simpler than pumping that liquid soap bottles. just squeze and pour. plus you can wash and reuse the bottle. much cheaper and easyier than paying for water to be shipped to your house every few months.


Pumping bottles isn't going to wear anyone out and you can wash and reuse the pump bottles also. Pfertz sells large refill sizes that are less per ounce than the smaller pump bottles.

Some people don't want or have time to mix their own dry ferts and if they prefer to pay more for the convenience of a liquid fert then what's the problem with that. Everyone has different goals and priorities. Dry ferts aren't superior to liquid and vice versa.


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Ive used Pferts, ada, and seachem. The only difference I have seen with the different liquid ferts is that they make my wallet lighter, much lighter then bulk dry, some much more then others!


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Jeff5614 said:


> Pumping bottles isn't going to wear anyone out and you can wash and reuse the pump bottles also. Pfertz sells large refill sizes that are less per ounce than the smaller pump bottles.
> 
> Some people don't want or have time to mix their own dry ferts and if they prefer to pay more for the convenience of a liquid fert then what's the problem with that. Everyone has different goals and priorities. Dry ferts aren't superior to liquid and vice versa.


Agreed 100%. This dry fert is better and cheaper argument seems to always come up in threads about liquid ferts.

Personally, I have no problem paying a little bit more for the convenience.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

I know you only asked about the two, but if you are going for liquid ferts, check out Root Medic. Justin is a stand up guy and he has a great line of products. 

http://rootmedic.net/


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Thanks for the RootMedic suggestion, guys. to the OP, if you have any questions at all about RootMedic, or how they differ from the above, let me know.

I would skip ada and make it between RootMedic or pFertz, or dry. That is my honest opinion. 

If you're looking at this from a convenience point, RootMedic only uses two bottles. 

Again, shoot me up if you have questions. You cannot go wrong between RootMedic or pFertz. We're both sponsors here and will take care ofyou. 

If you'd like to try RootMedic out, remember to use coupon code "plantedtank" for 10% off.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

JRMott said:


> Spoken like a true New Yorker!
> 
> I use rootmedic liquid ferts and root tabs and have been happy. If you haven't already consider them I would recommend you do. 'Overstocked' runs the company, is very active on the forum, and has always been great to deal with in my experience.
> 
> ...


HeHe, yea you know how it is. Hey and I work hard so why not make it easier on myself.

I heard great things about Pfertz over ADA. But I see what your saying with this Rootmedic product. I will take a look at it and read some reviews. I am all about reviews these days. I don't mind dealing with 4 bottles I just don't want to do any "mad scientist" mixing just to save a few bucks. You only live once, I think. Thanks for the info. though neighbor. :fish:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

reybie said:


> If you want to give it a try, buy my ada set


Yea I would but you don't have what I need i your set.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Jeff5614 said:


> Pumping bottles isn't going to wear anyone out and you can wash and reuse the pump bottles also. Pfertz sells large refill sizes that are less per ounce than the smaller pump bottles.
> 
> Some people don't want or have time to mix their own dry ferts and if they prefer to pay more for the convenience of a liquid fert then what's the problem with that. Everyone has different goals and priorities. Dry ferts aren't superior to liquid and vice versa.


Nicely said and I totally agree. I mean if I had the time and did not have the money maybe I would mix my own but like you said my goal, priorities, needs and wants draws me to the Pferts, ADA or a good liquid fert in a pertty little bottle, lol....


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

RootMedic is based on that simple philosophy. Some people do not want to think about those things, and thus we offer a convenient way to dose and add nutrients to substrates. 

Not all people are interested in dry dosing, etc. It isn't that it is "hard". It is easy. It just isn't appealing to everyone. 

Between RootMedic and Pfertz, you literally cannot go wrong. They are VERY similar, just differing in the number of bottles. Nutrient content is almost identical.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bigstick120 said:


> Ive used Pferts, ada, and seachem. The only difference I have seen with the different liquid ferts is that they make my wallet lighter, much lighter then bulk dry, some much more then others!


Jesus Christ!!! Is everything in this wonderful website about saving a buck???

Why does it all have to be about that. There is more to life then saving $20-30. Name brand ferts that are in a convenient bottle that looks good is a good thing and it makes you feel good. Sometimes you got to say frig-it and go all out, live and spend. I am sure we all work hard. Save money on other things in life. Don't eat a big lunch or skip breakfast some days to make up for what you spend. That is what I do when I need to. :icon_roll


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> Agreed 100%. This dry fert is better and cheaper argument seems to always come up in threads about liquid ferts.
> 
> Personally, I have no problem paying a little bit more for the convenience.


I think the people who say dry ferts are better are saying that to make themselves feel better for buying them, lol. Your right convenience is great and its our hobby, why not feel good and use something nice that works great as well. 

*My thread is not even about dry ferts, so we can all just stay away from that debate. I just wanna talk about liquid ferts and which is better. Money is no object with me and my hobbies. I want the best of the best.* :fish1:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

antbug said:


> I know you only asked about the two, but if you are going for liquid ferts, check out Root Medic. Justin is a stand up guy and he has a great line of products.
> 
> http://rootmedic.net/





OverStocked said:


> Thanks for the RootMedic suggestion, guys. to the OP, if you have any questions at all about RootMedic, or how they differ from the above, let me know.
> 
> I would skip ada and make it between RootMedic or pFertz, or dry. That is my honest opinion.
> 
> ...


Thanks guys I will take a look at his site and read up on it as well as any testimonials.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> RootMedic is based on that simple philosophy. Some people do not want to think about those things, and thus we offer a convenient way to dose and add nutrients to substrates.
> 
> Not all people are interested in dry dosing, etc. It isn't that it is "hard". It is easy. It just isn't appealing to everyone.
> 
> Between RootMedic and Pfertz, you literally cannot go wrong. They are VERY similar, just differing in the number of bottles. Nutrient content is almost identical.


That is a great philosophy to have, I love it. You said there are 2 bottles that is needed, which are the 2 bottles on your Website?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> That is a great philosophy to have, I love it. You said there are 2 bottles that is needed, which are the 2 bottles on your Website?


http://rootmedic.net/products-page/liquid-nutrients/liquid-set-500

This is both in one set. Micro/macro. 

I got into this game because of that idea. I too am not sure how this turns into some peeing contest about what is better or cheaper. If saving money is your goal, filling a box with water, over priced plants, expensive dirt and 200 dollar lights is prob not the best idea.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

OverStocked said:


> RootMedic is based on that simple philosophy. Some people do not want to think about those things, and thus we offer a convenient way to dose and add nutrients to substrates.
> 
> Not all people are interested in dry dosing, etc. It isn't that it is "hard". It is easy. It just isn't appealing to everyone.
> 
> Between RootMedic and Pfertz, you literally cannot go wrong. They are VERY similar, just differing in the number of bottles. Nutrient content is almost identical.


How effective is rm on a high light high co2 tank? How much higher would you say the cosumption is compared to a medium light set up?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Jeffww said:


> How effective is rm on a high light high co2 tank? How much higher would you say the cosumption is compared to a medium light set up?


Very.... 

I would say that in a (reasonably) high light, high co2 balanced tank, dosing RootMedic 5 days per week will give you adequate ferts. The nice part is that you can dose more often or higher quantity. 

Sure, it will cost (a lot) more than dry ferts. But if liquid is what you want, it is the easiest way to go. It also follow the higher iron movement that seems to be coming around. No micro mix has as much iron as RootMedic.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

OverStocked said:


> Very....
> 
> I would say that in a (reasonably) high light, high co2 balanced tank, dosing RootMedic 5 days per week will give you adequate ferts. The nice part is that you can dose more often or higher quantity.
> 
> Sure, it will cost (a lot) more than dry ferts. But if liquid is what you want, it is the easiest way to go. It also follow the higher iron movement that seems to be coming around. No micro mix has as much iron as RootMedic.


I'm contemplating to switch to RM while I'm away at college so my folks can take care of the plants better. Right now I have my own liquid formula that is measured using a graduated cylinder + spray bottle. And I'm using 3 different liquids. Iron, Micro (has added iron) and NPK. I'm trying to simplify...How much Ca and boron does RM have?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Jeffww said:


> I'm contemplating to switch to RM while I'm away at college so my folks can take care of the plants better. Right now I have my own liquid formula that is measured using a graduated cylinder + spray bottle. And I'm using 3 different liquids. Iron, Micro (has added iron) and NPK. I'm trying to simplify...How much Ca and boron does RM have?


Iron(EDTA, DTPA, FE Gluconate)........	1.16%
Manganese.............................	0.02%
Copper................................	0.001%
Zinc..................................	0.004%
Boron.................................	*0.014*%
Molybdenum............................	0.0006%
Magnesium.............................	0.017%
Calcium...............................	*0.14*%
Chlorine..............................	1.1%

Most micro mixes don't contain calcium, which i see as a deficit and I'm not sure why they lack it.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

OverStocked said:


> Iron(EDTA, DTPA, FE Gluconate)........ 1.16%
> Manganese............................. 0.02%
> Copper................................ 0.001%
> Zinc.................................. 0.004%
> ...


hmm.....what's your stance on manganese. Do you think it's necessary to have it in a higher proportion?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Oh I'm sorry, it appears as though the website has not been updated. 

Mn content in all RM liquid is actually .06%, as I too found that plants respond better to slightly higher levels. Thanks for pointing that out so I can go through and update that. It has been that way for over a year!


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Does anyone know if Pfertz is an American made product? and is Rootmedic American company too?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Both are made in the USA. Every batch of Rm is made my hand by me.


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Uptown193 said:


> Does anyone know if Pfertz is an American made product?


Yes. Based out of Arizona I believe.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

TLE041 said:


> Yes. Based out of Arizona I believe.


Yes, and they readily reply to any questions you may have and have a section in the sponsors forum. Just shoot them a PM with any questions you may have. I've contacted and bought from both RM and Pfertz. Justin and Shaun are both quick to respond and very helpful. They're an asset to the hobby and especially to those who are new to the world of fertilizing a tank.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Ok well I made a decision and I ordered with Pfertz. I did so because I heard many many good things about their product, more than ADA products. I must also add that I chose them because how well their product looks and how it is bottled in those nice bottles. On the Rootmedic website they have no photos of what their product looks like, which I think is a big negative. I say that because consumers like to see what they are paying for and do not like surprises. There are no images throughout the whole website but when you go to Pfertz website they show what you are actually buying. Maybe Rootmedic can upgrade their site. Pefertz just seems more organized and professional to me. This is my opinion only and what I see. 

However, I do like that fact that Rootmedic has a lot more iron in their product than Pfertz product but that was not enough to change my decision. I just like to see what I am buying and I go by testimonials.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Long before.........we all used DIY ferts, that's what farmers use too.

Liquid ferts are water........ with a tiny bit of ferts in them.... Water is not that much $$$. and shipping water via the mail is not wise.

Just put the dry ferts in the bottle and add water and have the user fill to the top with their own water.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Liquid ferts are water........ with a tiny bit of ferts in them.... Water is not that much $$$. and shipping water via the mail is not wise.
> 
> Just put the dry ferts in the bottle and add water and have the user fill to the top with their own water.



I am not a farmer and never was. I am a city boy and its 2011.

I know but some of us just rather not deal with it all and just have the convenience. It is not shipping water, come on now. Plus I do not mind supporting people who make good products. Everything doesn't have to be about how much can I save or what can I do on my own. I built my 35" high aquarium stand with wood from HD. I save a couple of hundred dollars there. I am happy. I like paying for fancy bottles with water in it anyway. I just wanted to know which product was better for my money. I have no interest in DIY ferts. I am sure if I was broke and/or lost my job I would do DIY ferts but not now.

Huh???


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Uptown193 said:


> I am not a farmer and never was. I am a city boy and its 2011.
> 
> I know but some of us just rather not deal with it all and just have the convenience. It is not shipping water, come on now. Plus I do not mind supporting people who make good products. Everything doesn't have to be about how much can I save or what can I do on my own. I built my 35" high aquarium stand with wood from HD. I save a couple of hundred dollars there. I am happy. I like paying for fancy bottles with water in it anyway. I just wanted to know which product was better for my money. I have no interest in DIY ferts. I am sure if I was broke and/or lost my job I would do DIY ferts but not now.
> 
> Huh???


I can buy KNO3 and make 1000X more solution for the same price.
The NO3 and the K+ are the same no matter what, regardless of the brand or whether you add it to a solution first or directly into the tank.

It's ironic you spent the time to DIY a stand, but chose not to DIY the ferts.
Add 2 tsp of KNO3 to 1 liter. How hard is that? These chemicals are no better than any other, you cannot "name brand" ions and atoms. 

Nothing wrong with supporting folks etc. But the liquid brand name products are actually mostly water...........

With a tiny bit of fertilizer added to them.

Whether one adds a brand name or dose liquid or dry DIY..........makes no difference to the plants. There is the same learning curve/ease for using a brand name vs a DIY method. You still dose either way. It's funny to me you are trying to defend yourself from saving money and flexibility here, but spent all the time and energy doing something far more complex :icon_idea

And you tell me to come on and be honest here eh???
hehe

Ah, heck, you'll get there at some point.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Your Pfertz pump bottles look pretty at least.

You can always still use them if you DIY in the future.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

Fancy packaging does matter to some people it seems...


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

tuffgong said:


> Fancy packaging does matter to some people it seems...


Nothing wrong with that.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

audioaficionado said:


> Nothing wrong with that.


This is true, I like pretty stuff too.
The bottles are nice, like stated above, buy them and then add DIY.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> It's ironic you spent the time to DIY a stand, but chose not to DIY the ferts.
> Add 2 tsp of KNO3 to 1 liter. How hard is that? These chemicals are no better than any other, you cannot "name brand" ions and atoms.
> 
> Nothing wrong with supporting folks etc. But the liquid brand name products are actually mostly water...........
> ...


Yes I did choose to build my own stand, why? because it is very hard to find a stand that is 35" tall that has a plexiglass door so that I can see my G3 and CO2 at work and lit up by my remote control 16 color LED light. A person can save money on certain things they want to save money on. If ADA sold a stand that was identical to the one I built, I would have purchased it, thank you very much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKNHTbldkPM










I want the fertz that look good and work good because that makes me happy and so that when woman come to my house they will see the pretty little bottles and be like "Oh what is that" and then I can explain it to them and then they will be like "wow that is nice" then I will make her say wow after again in my bedroom. Therefore, it is all part of my plan, let me live, Jesus. 

Maybe one day I will do DIY fertz but right now I rather just buy them, plus its only $50. You make it seem like that is an astronomical price. :biggrin:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I love your stand and the lights.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

Uptown193 said:


> I want the fertz that look good and work good because that makes me happy and so that when woman come to my house they will see the pretty little bottles and be like "Oh what is that" and then I can explain it to them and then they will be like "wow that is nice" then I will make her say wow after again in my bedroom. Therefore, it is all part of my plan, let me live, Jesus.


lol..I can't knock your hustle.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

Uptown193 said:


> I want the fertz that look good and work good because that makes me happy and so that when woman come to my house they will see the pretty little bottles and be like "Oh what is that" and then I can explain it to them and then they will be like "wow that is nice" then I will make her say wow after again in my bedroom. Therefore, it is all part of my plan, let me live, Jesus.


 
Just think when she see this big bag of *********** and the girl says "oh, what's that!? :eek5:". Then you take her to the room and have fun. When you're done, you can let her know "oh, that's just the fertz for my bad a$$ tank". haha :hihi:

Sorry, it's slow at work.... Carry on.


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

OP, you don't need to justify your purchases to anyone. There'll always be someone who insists that they're right on what's better for you.

Good choice on the Pfertz. You'll be happy with the product. It doesn't hurt that the bottles looks great (guess I'm superficial). Here's my set:


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

TLE041 said:


> OP, you don't need to justify your purchases to anyone. There'll always be someone who insists that they're right on what's better for you.
> 
> Good choice on the Pfertz. You'll be happy with the product. It doesn't hurt that the bottles looks great (guess I'm superficial). Here's my set:



You need to buy some vowels.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> I love your stand and the lights.


Thanks bro, I appreciate the compliment. I am so happy I built my own stand and it was my first time. I just read all the threads in this website and gave it a shot. I highly recommend everyone to try it themselves the satisfaction afterwards is wonderful. roud:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

tuffgong said:


> lol..I can't knock your hustle.


I am glad you understand at least...



antbug said:


> Just think when she see this big bag of *********** and the girl says "oh, what's that!? :eek5:". Then you take her to the room and have fun. When you're done, you can let her know "oh, that's just the fertz for my bad a$$ tank". haha :hihi:
> 
> Sorry, it's slow at work.... Carry on.


Lmao, that was a good one... :icon_lol:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

jcgd said:


> You need to buy some vowels.


Lol.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> OP, you don't need to justify your purchases to anyone. There'll always be someone who insists that they're right on what's better for you.
> 
> Good choice on the Pfertz. You'll be happy with the product. It doesn't hurt that the bottles looks great (guess I'm superficial). Here's my set:


OOhhhh wow...... See now that is such a pretty sight to see. Look at them all standing at attention, as always and never at ease. Four little soldiers. Beautiful pic, thanks a lot, and for the vote of confidence. Now I have a reason to come back to my thread here this entire weekend, lol...:biggrin: :biggrin: :hihi:

I am actually going to leave my thread open now and stare at your pic. lol


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Does anyone have a pic of Rootmedics product. I might have bought his if there was a photo of it in his website.

I am telling you good looking products sell in this world, it helps, if not anything else. It is like having two woman that like you. Who are you going to choose, the pretty one or the ugly one? lol...


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Those are some DARK micros...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Uptown193 said:


> Does anyone have a pic of Rootmedics product. I might have bought his if there was a photo of it in his website.
> 
> I am telling you good looking products sell in this world, it helps, if not anything else. It is like having two woman that like you. Who are you going to choose, the pretty one or the ugly one? lol...


The one that is most economical and makes the plants grow best.:biggrin:


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> Does anyone have a pic of Rootmedics product. I might have bought his if there was a photo of it in his website.
> 
> I am telling you good looking products sell in this world, it helps, if not anything else. It is like having two woman that like you. Who are you going to choose, the pretty one or the ugly one? lol...



We're updating labeling and the website in the next week. OFten over the last 6 months packages have been without labels due to a shortage on our end. This is over now and we're waiting for the shipment on monday. 

I'll post pics in here and on the site when they are done monday afternoon. RootMedic is a one man band here, but the quality is superb. 

You will be happy with pFertz, but look us up in the future!


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Jeffww said:


> Those are some DARK micros...


I thought the bottle itself was black.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Jeffww said:


> Those are some DARK micros...


Not really. CSMB mixed normal will be that dark. 

It is partly a deception of volume and light.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> The one that is most economical and makes the plants grow best.:biggrin:


Hehe, I will be satisfied as long as I get a happy ending. :biggrin:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> We're updating labeling and the website in the next week. OFten over the last 6 months packages have been without labels due to a shortage on our end. This is over now and we're waiting for the shipment on monday.
> 
> I'll post pics in here and on the site when they are done monday afternoon. RootMedic is a one man band here, but the quality is superb.
> 
> You will be happy with pFertz, but look us up in the future!


Ok kool. I look forward to seeing your product and even trying it. Maybe I will give it a [censored][censored][censored][censored] next time around. I respect that your a one man band. It is hard work. I think updating your site will be a big advantage to your site since consumers always like to see eye candy. Post the pics when your ready. I notice you have a lot more iron in your product than Pfertz, that is a big plus.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

How long does it take for the Fertz to kick in and see some results?


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Uptown193 said:


> . I am to busy for all that stuff.


If there's a will there's a way. There is nothing you have to DIY. Take a spoon and dump salts in tank.

Literally you are paying for water when you buy liquid fert and their brand name. 
For me to dose all big tanks which I have takes less than 2 minutes.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Mixing up stock solutions where a number of pumps doses the tank for a day, every two days or once a week shouldn't be too hard. While you use up the PFertz solutions, ask and figure out how many spoonfuls of dry ferts you need per bottle. Plenty of time to do this at your leisure.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Joraan said:


> If there's a will there's a way. There is nothing you have to DIY. Take a spoon and dump salts in tank.
> 
> Literally you are paying for water when you buy liquid fert and their brand name.
> For me to dose all big tanks which I have takes less than 2 minutes.


Lol, wow I think that is a lil disrespectful to the companies who are selling these liquid ferts. 

However, maybe one day I will do my own DIY but right now I will buy. It is more than taking a spoon and dumping. You have to measure these things im sure.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Mixing up stock solutions where a number of pumps doses the tank for a day, every two days or once a week shouldn't be too hard. While you use up the PFertz solutions, ask and figure out how many spoonfuls of dry ferts you need per bottle. Plenty of time to do this at your leisure.


Yes in deed and I can use the pretty little bottles I have from prior time. But then again I don't mind buying products.


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## robbowal (Mar 27, 2011)

Uptown193 said:


> Lol, wow I think that is a lil disrespectful to the companies who are selling these liquid ferts.
> 
> However, maybe one day I will do my own DIY but right now I will buy. It is more than taking a spoon and dumping. You have to measure these things im sure.


yes you do need to measure things but it becomes second nature very quickly. 
Dosing dry allows you to change the ratios of things very easily if you need to.
All you need it ten minutes once a month to fill a 28 compatment pill minder (you only use 24 compartments per month) and your good to go. Then every morning dump one in the tank, takes a couple of seconds.


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## Chris767 (Aug 2, 2011)

-Post edited for relevancy to thread topic. 

Sorry about that, I get carried away in the conversations and completely forget what the original topic was.


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## greenfish4 (Oct 13, 2007)

Lol, i enjoyed this thread. It does a great job illustrating the different agendas that people have regarding planted tanks. The one thing i have learned about this hobby is that it grows on you. There will come a day when you want to tinker with your dosing and dry ferts will be right for you. One advantage of the "bottled water" is that it removes a lot of guesswork in the beginning and allows you to spend some time enjoying your tank. I think your stand is remarkable and wish you the best of luck.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I love this thread just for this:



Uptown193 said:


> I want the fertz that look good and work good because that makes me happy and so that when woman come to my house they will see the pretty little bottles and be like "Oh what is that" and then I can explain it to them and then they will be like "wow that is nice" then I will make her say wow after again in my bedroom. Therefore, it is all part of my plan, let me live, Jesus.


Though it could backfire if any of your ladyfriends knows about dry ferts. Or if any become disgusted wondering why you have a big bottle of "P". :hihi:


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Let the man live! Jesus! 

I don't really care much if anyone chooses to pay for liquid ferts...their money their business. I make my own liquids but honestly that DOES take awhile (like 30minutes) simply because CaCO3 is a pain in the ass to dissolve. But every time I make a gallon which lasts me around 4 months so whatever. I go through NPK too fast....


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

This thread has pretty much exhausted it's usefulness. It's the same argument as Eheim vs Fluval, EI vs PPS, diffuser vs reactor, ADA vs DIY, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Everyone has different goals, priorities, epectations, budgets, etc. It doesn't matter if one uses dry or wet. Isn't the outcome the main thing? I dosed dry for years and recently bought a set of Pfertz and guess what. The plants don't know the difference. I was as shocked as anyone to find this out.

Where's a "this thread is closed" happy mod when you need one?


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## KH2PO4 (Jul 18, 2009)

TLE041 said:


> OP, you don't need to justify your purchases to anyone. There'll always be someone who insists that they're right on what's better for you.
> 
> Good choice on the Pfertz. You'll be happy with the product. It doesn't hurt that the bottles looks great (guess I'm superficial). Here's my set:


Look like they use screened graphics instead of some type of shrink-wrap.
Very NICE bottles.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Ok gentlemen. This thread has nothing, I repeat nothing to do with dry fertilizers. Look at the title, it says "Pfertz vs. ADA fertz" That is all I wanted responses to. I did not mind the first few dry fertz responses but it is only continuing. Please respect my thread as I would yours. I am fully aware of dry fertz, trust me. I do not want dry fertz. I want to spend my money on liquid fertz. I do not want to be the "mad scientist" and mix my fertz right now in life. Dry fertz are not for me and I am not interested in them at all. I want ADA, Pfertz (which is what I ordered) or Rootmedic, which I just learn about. I love a good debate about products and it is great to interact with each other.

I do not want my thread closed. We are all adults here, so can we only continue talking about the liquid fertz please. Thank you.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

ADA ferts assume you have closer to their lighting levels (medium ish)...They are more dilute than pferts.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Jeff5614 said:


> This thread has pretty much exhausted it's usefulness. It's the same argument as Eheim vs Fluval, EI vs PPS, diffuser vs reactor, ADA vs DIY, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Everyone has different goals, priorities, epectations, budgets, etc. It doesn't matter if one uses dry or wet. Isn't the outcome the main thing? I dosed dry for years and recently bought a set of Pfertz and guess what. The plants don't know the difference. I was as shocked as anyone to find this out.
> 
> Where's a "this thread is closed" happy mod when you need one?


No it has not exhausted its usefulness. I still would like responses to my title. It is fine for everyone to interact with each other that is what forums are for. I am not offended by the dry fert posts. I just want to concentrate on my title question. Thank you.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

greenfish4 said:


> Lol, i enjoyed this thread. It does a great job illustrating the different agendas that people have regarding planted tanks. The one thing i have learned about this hobby is that it grows on you. There will come a day when you want to tinker with your dosing and dry ferts will be right for you. One advantage of the "bottled water" is that it removes a lot of guesswork in the beginning and allows you to spend some time enjoying your tank. I think your stand is remarkable and wish you the best of luck.


I agree that it does illustrate everyone different agenda and that is what so great about this hobby. We all have different needs. That is another reason why I want the liquid fertz, so that I can just pump it into my tank and not have to worry about measuring and mixing. 

Oh and thank you for the compliment on my stand. I appreciate it. It was fun to build and I love looking at it at night. I think the song goes great with the video, lol.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Jeffww said:


> ADA ferts assume you have closer to their lighting levels (medium ish)...They are more dilute than pferts.


Oh they are. So they are weaker then Pfertz your saying? Then I am glad I ordered the Pfertz in that case. Thanks


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

A possible difference between or among liquid fertilizers is what the assumptions were when the recommended dosages were calculated. For example Seachem Flourish liquids seem to have recommended dosages designed for low light tanks only. Unless the directions say what light level the dosages are intended for it might be good to email the manufacturer to find out that information.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Hoppy said:


> A possible difference between or among liquid fertilizers is what the assumptions were when the recommended dosages were calculated. For example Seachem Flourish liquids seem to have recommended dosages designed for low light tanks only. Unless the directions say what light level the dosages are intended for it might be good to email the manufacturer to find out that information.


The Seachem website includes directions and calculations on how to raise the levels of each macro by a given amount. So if you want to add 10ppm of NO3 per week ( for example ) to your tank it's easily done using the calculation they provide.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

So is using the Flourish product from Seachem the same as using the ferts from Pfertz?


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

I wonder what my plants will look like once I start using Pfertz


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Jungle hopefully.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Jungle hopefully.


Lol, yea me to, well not too much now


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Uptown193 said:


> So is using the Flourish product from Seachem the same as using the ferts from Pfertz?


I'm sure they're not exactly the same as in 1 ml of Pfertz vs 1 ml of Seachem may not deliver the same amount of N, P or K, but both derive their N from KNO3 and urea, K from potassium sulfate and P from potassium phosphate.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Is it me or did my plants grow an inch or more over night and during the day. Look at the pic above I took last night and look at this pic. The plant on the right side in front, insane growth with aquasoil or maybe this plant just grows fast and I am only using New Aquasoil and some Seachem Flourish.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

So yea my liquid Pfertz were delivered at my office today, yippie. Now lets see what changes in color I get, among other things.

Nicely packaged in invividual styrofoam:









Here all four standing at attention:









I am happy now.


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## JRMott (Jul 30, 2010)

Pfertz bottling does look very nice.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Uptown193 said:


> So yea my liquid Pfertz were delivered at my office today, yippie. Now lets see what changes in color I get, among other things.
> 
> Nicely packaged in invividual styrofoam:
> 
> ...


Nirvana!:wink:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

JRMott said:


> Pfertz bottling does look very nice.


Yes they do, I agree. I heard their products work just as good. :smile:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> Nirvana!:wink:


Isnt' it... :icon_smil


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

I'll admit it. The bottles do look cool. I hope your plants grow like weeds and your ferts help you score!!


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## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

Ok, somehow I managed to read all 9 pages of this thread about one liquid fert vs. another liquid fert. Here are my observations:

I started out using dry ferts. I went through the relatively small learning curve necessary to guesstimate how much I would need, bought some dosing spoons, and I was set. I spent a lot of time talking about "just how easy it is to dose dry ferts", but in the end, I have to admit, even though it was fast, it wasn't fast enough. When you do something every day, for every week, for every month, for every year, it adds up. 

So, I decided to buy 4 bottles of pfertz with the idea that I will mix down my own solution once my pfertz have been exhausted. I will have the pretty bottle and be getting the exact same thing in the end. KNO3 is KNO3 is KNO3. It simply doesn't matter what the bottle looks like. That said, it actually DOES matter what the bottle looks like if you've already invested in ADA everything, and you care about aesthetics. They just look bling. Nothing wrong with wanting bling.

I used to dose my dry ferts when I came home from work because it takes more than "a few moments" to dose dry ferts. It quite literally takes "a few moments" to dose from a pfertz bottle, however. So, now I dose in the morning. 

re: dry ferts, I am quite sure that dosing dry without first mixing down with tank water once killed a rummynose tetra of mine. Yes, I have heard enough people tell me that dry ferts do not harm fish. For the most part, I agree with them. However, my rummynose would eat anything I dropped into the tank, and they mistook it for food. I literally watched one gobble up a huge hunk of KNO3. The next day he was dead, and everyone else was fine. Coincidence? Quite possibly! Still, I started mixing down my ferts with tank water from that day forward. 

Let's address the actual topic at hand though: ADA vs. Pfertz. 

I can't think of a single compelling reason for spending money on ADA ferts other than that you want to be able to say "I dose ADA ferts." If that's your gig, and you get a little ego bump out of that then more power to you I say. You won't see any changes to your plants though so long as you are dosing properly. 

I heard someone mention colors in this thread. If you have red plants, or rather, red plants that are suppose to be a lot more red than they are showing, unscrew the top of your pfertz or ADA bottle and drop in some dry iron. Shake. Problem solved.


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

I never opened this thread because I don't have any experience with either pfertz or ADA ferts. Bored today, so I decided to open it. Hafta say, it's a great thread, made me LOL several times. 

I dose PPS Pro daily. It takes me about 3 minutes to mix a liquid dose in a 500mL "dosing" bottle which lasts me over a month. I have another "dosing" 500mL bottle I pour Excel into. Every day I dose 3 tanks NPK, and 6 tanks Excel with a mL syringe. Takes me 3 mins a day to dose all tanks. I spend about 25$ a year on dry ferts and probably 30$ a month on Excel. Bottles aren't pretty tho...


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

tuffgong said:


> I'll admit it. The bottles do look cool. I hope your plants grow like weeds and your ferts help you score!!


Lol, thanks, well I dont't know about weeds part, but hopefully a nice color and healthy looking.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Uptown193 said:


> Nicely packaged in invividual styrofoam:
> 
> Here all four standing at attention:
> 
> ...


Fertz pr0n LOL :biggrin:


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## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

Uptown193 said:


> Lol, thanks, well I dont't know about weeds part, but hopefully a nice color and healthy looking.


I like how you are not sure about the "grow like weeds" part, but no mention of your increased ability to score secondary to the bling ferts bottles. ;-)


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Here is a pic of my RootMedic bottles in front of the tank I have been dosing with said ferts (I got the bottle soaked and the labels ink bled, my fault) which is the tank that the Trithuria will be coming from.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

youjettisonme said:


> I like how you are not sure about the "grow like weeds" part, but no mention of your increased ability to score secondary to the bling ferts bottles. ;-)


Lol, I am only being modest, :angel:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Here is a pic of my RootMedic bottles in front of the tank I have been dosing with said ferts (I got the bottle soaked and the labels ink bled, my fault) which is the tank that the Trithuria will be coming from.


Ewwwwww, those are ugly man... I am gettin laid before you do... :biggrin:

But I like the tank where the Blood Vomits will be coming from. I also like your wood (no pun intended) Hehehehe......


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

youjettisonme said:


> Ok, somehow I managed to read all 9 pages of this thread about one liquid fert vs. another liquid fert. Here are my observations:
> 
> I started out using dry ferts. I went through the relatively small learning curve necessary to guesstimate how much I would need, bought some dosing spoons, and I was set. I spent a lot of time talking about "just how easy it is to dose dry ferts", but in the end, I have to admit, even though it was fast, it wasn't fast enough. When you do something every day, for every week, for every month, for every year, it adds up.
> 
> ...


Hi. As you can see from my setup I care a lot about aesthetics and I did no want to get into mixing and measuring. I Just want to squirt and move on. Plus like you said I already bought everything top of the line I might as well continue. We only live once.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Don't hate on my pfertz:


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## KH2PO4 (Jul 18, 2009)

A Linde regulator can improve your bling factor further.:hihi:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

KH2PO4 said:


> A Linde regulator can improve your bling factor further.:hihi:


That look nice. How much are those?


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Tmg+ or TMG or whatever they call the line now.


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## KH2PO4 (Jul 18, 2009)

Uptown193 said:


> That look nice. How much are those?


The last time I saw it was around $200-300. They are dual stage too!
There are also some models from AGA brand that share the same body.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

mrkookm said:


> Tmg+ or TMG or whatever they call the line now.


What are you talking about, maybe I missed the convo about tropica ferts?

What is available in the US is what used to be called TMG (tropica master grow) now its called TPN (tropica plant nutrition). The TPN+ is not available in the US but it is a MACRO liquid fert. I was actually lucky enough to acquire a bottle when I traded a tropica employee some of my plants. I use it to dose MACRO ferts in my low tech mini-m.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

KH2PO4 said:


> The last time I saw it was around $200-300. They are dual stage too!
> There are also some models from AGA brand that share the same body.


What a steal, lol...


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I really like the Linde regs too. If I deceide to splurge on a new regulator just purely for aesthetic reasons (my victor and concoa are rock solid) it would be a Linde or a


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> I really like the Linde regs too. If I deceide to splurge on a new regulator just purely for aesthetic reasons (my victor and concoa are rock solid) it would be a Linde or a


I love expensive aesthetic looking stuff. If there is one thing I learned over the past year I been involved in this hobby is never buy cheap equipment and try to cut corners to save a few bucks. However, this does not include getting a great deal on good products. You get what you pay for.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> I love expensive aesthetic looking stuff. If there is one thing I learned over the past year I been involved in this hobby is never buy cheap equipment and try to cut corners to save a few bucks. However, this does not include getting a great deal on good products. You get what you pay for.


I wish everyone had your (and my own) views on purchasing or rather, avoiding like a Dutch rat during the bubonic plague outbreak, cheap/knock off brands of equipment. 

I really feel like I'm doing the community a disservice if/when I dont comment in the sunsun threads.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

bsmith said:


> I wish everyone had your (and my own) views on purchasing or rather, avoiding like a Dutch rat during the bubonic plague outbreak, cheap/knock off brands of equipment.
> 
> I really feel like I'm doing the community a disservice if/when I dont comment in the sunsun threads.


Not everyone has the money to spend on nice shiny things when they would rather spend it on new plants/fish. My priorities go from :Fish needs> plant needs> then aesthetics. We all have our own priorities. 

Also if you don't like mixing and measuring make your _own_ liquid ferts. It takes about as much time as ordering online...and isn't very painful. In 30 minutes I can make a gallon of macro solution and at dosing 10-15 ml a day that lasts me....what a year and then some? Micro dissolves much easier and a liter (takes 5 seconds to make) lasts me 6 months.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Jeffww said:


> Not everyone has the money to spend on nice shiny things when they would rather spend it on new plants/fish. My priorities go from :Fish needs> plant needs> then aesthetics. We all have our own priorities.
> 
> Also if you don't like mixing and measuring make your _own_ liquid ferts. It takes about as much time as ordering online...and isn't very painful. In 30 minutes I can make a gallon of macro solution and at dosing 10-15 ml a day that lasts me....what a year and then some? Micro dissolves much easier and a liter (takes 5 seconds to make) lasts me 6 months.


Shhh!
Hush now now!

hehe

That said, I think Pfertz is the best line of company pre made around in the USA.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Jeffww said:


> Not everyone has the money to spend on nice shiny things when they would rather spend it on new plants/fish. My priorities go from :Fish needs> plant needs> then aesthetics. We all have our own priorities.
> 
> Also if you don't like mixing and measuring make your _own_ liquid ferts. It takes about as much time as ordering online...and isn't very painful. In 30 minutes I can make a gallon of macro solution and at dosing 10-15 ml a day that lasts me....what a year and then some? Micro dissolves much easier and a liter (takes 5 seconds to make) lasts me 6 months.


Then this thread is not for you, sorry. He/we do no intend to offend anyone. Further, I save my money for the nice things I want. If I can't afford it I save for it. I do not cut corners. If you mix fertz then this thread is not for you. Read the title of my thread. I prefer people to not mention DIY ferts. I know I can make my own and I choose not to, that is my preference, I want to buy them. Thank you.

Further,with a click of my mouse button I can order a gallon of each fertz from Pfertz that will last me a year with having to mix anything. Haha I win. :flick:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Shhh!
> Hush now now!
> 
> hehe
> ...


That is good to know. At least I know I am supporting an American vendor/company. Hopefully I will have lush growth.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

how ironic that ADA is not american product.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> how ironic that ADA is not american product.


How ironic that is one of the reason I did not order from them. :icon_roll


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

bsmith said:


> What are you talking about, maybe I missed the convo about tropica ferts?
> 
> What is available in the US is what used to be called TMG (tropica master grow) now its called TPN (tropica plant nutrition). The TPN+ is not available in the US but it is a MACRO liquid fert. I was actually lucky enough to acquire a bottle when I traded a tropica employee some of my plants. I use it to dose MACRO ferts in my low tech mini-m.


You didn't miss anything ma brotha since the thread is all over the place I figured I would chime in with my suggestion. There is some good input here, so I figured I'd add my nonsense.

Also,

TPN+ / Aquacare = Macro & micro's

Guaranteed Analysis of the metals/ions in the + is the same for the TPN. The + as you know just added the NPK.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> How ironic that is one of the reason I did not order from them. :icon_roll




Am I missing something?




Uptown193 said:


> I wonder what my plants will look like once I start using Pfertz


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

mrkookm said:


> Am I missing something?


I was referring to the fertz "ma brotha" :icon_smil


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## JRMott (Jul 30, 2010)

What kind of lighting is on the tank? 

You really don't have a lot of plants right now, if the lighting is too strong I think you're going to end up with a ton of algae.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

JRMott said:


> What kind of lighting is on the tank?
> 
> You really don't have a lot of plants right now, if the lighting is too strong I think you're going to end up with a ton of algae.


Yea I been only turning on light for 5 hours each night when im at home. I have a Catalina solar T5 light 2x24 with one Geissman 6500K and one Geissman Aquaflora. It has been setup up for about 2 weeks now and the algae is not bad now. Week one I did daily 5 gallon water changes and this week (#2) I am doing 5 gallon water changes every other day as ADA recommends in their book. My ammonia level is at 2.0 now.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

I also just got these in mail today from a member here (bsmith):


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## JRMott (Jul 30, 2010)

Uptown193 said:


> Yea I been only turning on light for 5 hours each night when im at home. I have a Catalina solar T5 light 2x24 with one Geissman 6500K and one Geissman Aquaflora. It has been setup up for about 2 weeks now and the algae is not bad now. Week one I did daily 5 gallon water changes and this week (#2) I am doing 5 gallon water changes every other day as ADA recommends in their book. My ammonia level is at 2.0 now.


I'm no expert, far from it, but I think you've got an insane amount of light. If I'm not mistaken, the 60P is 14" high and it looks like your light is about 4" above the tank. Going off of Hoppys PAR chart in the lighting forum, your lighting level would be classified as 'too high' w/ 2 T5HO bulbs.

Regardless, good luck. Everything looks great and it's going to be even better once everything is grown in nicely.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Hoppy Smoppy (Just kidding Hoppy) Na, but I do no think it is to much light from what I see and feel. My plants seem to like the light so far and the growth I been getting has been good. I think it is because I am using the 6500K and Aquaflora bulbs. I think that makes a big difference. Some else can chime in on this if they have knowledge. My lights are 6" above my tank and my tank is 14" deep, I guess that helps too.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Those Tris sure do look strong!


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> I was referring to the fertz "ma brotha" :icon_smil


ok I was a little confused 

Is it me or that DC looks a little pale? Also, you might want to lower it to get a better reading on whats really going on in the tank.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Those Tris sure do look strong!


I agree 100%. Thanks


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

mrkookm said:


> ok I was a little confused
> 
> Is it me or that DC looks a little pale? Also, you might want to lower it to get a better reading on whats really going on in the tank.


Yea it is a little pale. I was told and read that high CO2 is good for plants and since the tank is still cycling and I have no fish in tank it would not be a problem. Do you disagree?

Lower it? oh ok. I also read in the instruction that it should be like 2 inches from rim, not true?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Mine is full yellow and 2" from the top also. Fauna and flora are happy. Plenty of surface ripple for O2 and lots of CO2 bps to compensate extra losses. None of Popeil's "Set it and forget it" mentality. We gotta watch every day and see what's changing. As my filter starts to slow down as it fills with dirt, I get less ripple and less O2. I have to then back off the CO2 a bit to compensate so I don't gas the fish.

Plants only is easy. No fish to limit CO2 levels.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Mine is full yellow and 2" from the top also. Fauna and flora are happy. Plenty of surface ripple for O2 and lots of CO2 bps to compensate extra losses. None of Popeil's "Set it and forget it" mentality. We gotta watch every day and see what's changing. As my filter starts to slow down as it fills with dirt, I get less ripple and less O2. I have to then back off the CO2 a bit to compensate so I don't gas the fish.
> 
> Plants only is easy. No fish to limit CO2 levels.


Wow full yellow with fish. I am surprised they are not all swimming at the top trying to get air. But yea that is what I thought people put their DC about 2" below the rim of tank light green color with fish and plants.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

With ad much light as you have I think that with a DC any color but yellow you will expetence BBA problems. Might not but that's where I would put my money. Remember I had a 3x24w t5ho about 32" from the substrate and I had BBA problems if my DC was not yellow as I DES roped to you in pm's.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

You think I have a lot of light? You think I need to raise it more. I didn't think it was too much. I do not want a lot of algae.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> You think I have a lot of light? You think I need to raise it more. I didn't think it was too much. I do not want a lot of algae.


Im memory serves you have a similar fixture as I do just minus one bulb (I have a cataquariums 3x24w and I bieve you have a 2x24w t5ho fixture) but yours is a few inches from the water surface where mine was about 2' from the surface. Maybe not making the intensity exactly the same but bringing them pretty close.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Im memory serves you have a similar fixture as I do just minus one bulb (I have a cataquariums 3x24w and I bieve you have a 2x24w t5ho fixture) but yours is a few inches from the water surface where mine was about 2' from the surface. Maybe not making the intensity exactly the same but bringing them pretty close.


Oh. So do you recommend that I raise my light another 12" or so to avoid algae?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> Oh. So do you recommend that I raise my light another 12" or so to avoid algae?


I wouldnt do anything unless you see an issue. It may be okay, im just trying to give you a heads up. 

What kind of fixture are you using (Giesmann bulbs right)?


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## JRMott (Jul 30, 2010)

Uptown193 said:


> Oh. So do you recommend that I raise my light another 12" or so to avoid algae?


Being that they are 6" above the tank, I think you will be OK, though it certainly is high light. I'd probably just move them higher now though, you can probably go another 6-8" higher and still be considered high light.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> I wouldnt do anything unless you see an issue. It may be okay, im just trying to give you a heads up.
> 
> What kind of fixture are you using (Giesmann bulbs right)?


Yes. I havea Cataline Solor, 2x24 with Geismann bulb, 1 midday 6500K and 1 Aquaflora. Hung about 5-6 " over tank. I do notice so algae on some of the plant leaves but I am not sure if that is just new algae due to new tank syndrome. 

FYI, over the weekend, I exchanged out chemical carbon filtration with a Seachem Purigen 200ml bag.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

JRMott said:


> Being that they are 6" above the tank, I think you will be OK, though it certainly is high light. I'd probably just move them higher now though, you can probably go another 6-8" higher and still be considered high light.


Wow really. If I go another 6-8"" it would still be considered high light. Damnnn thats crazy. I am growing Eriocaulon Sp. which require high light and I do use CO2 and Pfertz. Maybe I should read what ADA recommends in their ADA book when I get home. So much to learn in this hobby, but its fun.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> Yes. I havea Cataline Solor, 2x24 with Geismann bulb, 1 midday 6500K and 1 Aquaflora. Hung about 5-6 " over tank. I do notice so algae on some of the plant leaves but I am not sure if that is just new algae due to new tank syndrome.
> 
> FYI, over the weekend, I exchanged out chemical carbon filtration with a Seachem Purigen 200ml bag.


Purigen is the stuff, you will really like it. 

The algae on the leaves is a classic sign of too much light/not enough co2/lights that are too low. If I were you I would lift the lights a couple of inches (or cut the photo period 30mins to 1 hour) and turn up the co2 a bit.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Purigen is the stuff, you will really like it.
> 
> The algae on the leaves is a classic sign of too much light/not enough co2/lights that are too low. If I were you I would lift the lights a couple of inches (or cut the photo period 30mins to 1 hour) and turn up the co2 a bit.


Yea your right, I can't lie, I have noticed a difference in my water clarity since I put it in on Saturday night.

Wow, 30mins to an hour. Now I cant look at my tank. lol... I am going to lift it tonight. Actually, if my memory serves me right, the ADA book did say that I should hang my like about 30-50cm over the tank which is about 12-20" depending upon the light I am using because they sell a few different lights. I'm so stupid for not listening to them. I just thought it would be to high. I am going to review what they wrote when I get home from work tonight.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Well, you could cut whatever amount from the beginning of the photoperiod as to not lessen the amount you view it near the end of it. 

I was running all 3 bulbs for maybe 6 hours and if my co2 ran out/water dropped too low to off gas too much co2 I would have BBA with the quickness.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Well, you could cut whatever amount from the beginning of the photoperiod as to not lessen the amount you view it near the end of it.
> 
> I was running all 3 bulbs for maybe 6 hours and if my co2 ran out/water dropped too low to off gas too much co2 I would have BBA with the quickness.


I am just going to raise it to a total of 12" (30-40cm) and cut photo time to 5-6 hours from 8 hours. See what results I get.

Do fertz increase or decrease algae?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> I am just going to raise it to a total of 12" (30-40cm) and cut photo time to 5-6 hours from 8 hours. See what results I get.
> 
> Do fertz increase or decrease algae?


Ferts do not directly decrease algea. But it has been proven that whatever we can do to make our plants grow better will lessen the amounts of algae in our tanks.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Ferts do not directly decrease algea. But it has been proven that whatever we can do to make our plants grow better will lessen the amounts of algae in our tanks.


Oh ok I see. Thanks


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> Oh ok I see. Thanks


 :biggrin: :thumbsup:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Look at nutrients CO2/ferts as the gas tank and light as the gas pedal.

Keep the gas tank full at all times (non-limiting levels) and adjust your speed with the light level.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

audioaficionado said:


> Look at nutrients CO2/ferts as the gas tank and light as the gas pedal.
> 
> Keep the gas tank full at all times (non-limiting levels) and adjust your speed with the light level.


Great analogy. roud:


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

Wow, thanks for some of the great compliments, folks! Uptown - your tank looks awesome, I definitely dig the 'bling' factor 

I apologize for not catching this thread earlier, but I've been dealing with some health issues that have kept me away from a lot of things.

To clarify (reiterate?), pfertz IS an American company. We are based out of Phoenix, AZ. I personally started the company & developed the product line myself many moons ago, in an attempt to provide an easy-to-use, quality product that seemed to be missing at the time. Since then, some others have come along to try to fit the same niche, but our ideas are all original - and all my own. 

That being said, EVERYTHING about the company is American, from packaging, fertilizer sources, even to shipping materials. I even try to source as much as possible from Phoenix-based companies to support the local economy & reduce shipping waste. I think the only thing that isn't born here is the funnels we ship with our refill jugs. And trust me, I'm not happy that they are sourced from China, but unfortunately there aren't any domestic options for plastic funnels these days :/

We started as, and continue to be, a small, family-run business, and we take a lot of pride in providing a quality product at a competitive price. We tend to get beat up a lot by many of the dry-ferts nazi's around here, and while I understand that people want to save money, I don't understand the fascist mentality that some people take towards it.

In the end, does it matter how someone else chooses to dose their tank? At the end of the day, aren't we ALL here because we love PLANTED TANKS? If someone decides to dose dry ferts, or with pfertz/root medic/ADA/Seachem/etc. ad nauseum, isn’t ultimately a lifestyle choice that fits someone’s personal needs? I don’t recall the last time I heard someone harass a Starbuck’s patron for buying coffee instead of saving a couple dollars by making their own. Its all about personal choice & personal freedom. Or at least it should be.

-Alex


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

pfertz said:


> Wow, thanks for some of the great compliments, folks! Uptown - your tank looks awesome, I definitely dig the 'bling' factor
> 
> I apologize for not catching this thread earlier, but I've been dealing with some health issues that have kept me away from a lot of things.
> 
> ...


Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Hey uptown, this is off topic, but which ADA book are you referring to in a few of your posts?


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

jcgd said:


> Hey uptown, this is off topic, but which ADA book are you referring to in a few of your posts?


This one right here. It is free when you order with them. I think it is the only ADA product that is free, so take advantage of it lol...










You can get it here:

http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_35_60&products_id=491

It is pretty informational and lots of eye candy.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

dangit I tried to buy it for free.... I noticed the shipping is $6.20 lol


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Oh yeahhhh, im stoked. Im getting new labels for my RM liquid fert bottles!!! Not only is Justin (the owner/operator/proprietor of RM AKA Overstocked on this site) a very generous businessman but he even stands behind the LABELS of his products! Try to find that kind of service anywhere else. 

Of course im totally joking about him warrantying the labels but he is sending me new ones since im getting some other of his products too.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> dangit I tried to buy it for free.... I noticed the shipping is $6.20 lol


Blame the our trusty and wonderful Post Office for that charge not ADA, lol.....:hihi:

You can always go pick up a copy in their San Fran Store (for free).


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Oh yeahhhh, im stoked. Im getting new labels for my RM liquid fert bottles!!! Not only is Justin (the owner/operator/proprietor of RM AKA Overstocked on this site) a very generous businessman but he even stands behind the LABELS of his products! Try to find that kind of service anywhere else.
> 
> Of course im totally joking about him warrantying the labels but he is sending me new ones since im getting some other of his products too.


Nice.....:icon_lol:

Hey tell him if he makes his bottles are as nice as Pfertz I will consider purchasing his products..:icon_twis


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> Nice.....:icon_lol:
> 
> Hey tell him if he makes his bottles are as nice as Pfertz I will consider purchasing his products..:icon_twis


I would actually venture to say that they are the same bottles, just different colors. Im pretty stoked to get my new products along with my new labels.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

bsmith said:


> I would actually venture to say that they are the same bottles, just different colors. Im pretty stoked to get my new products along with my new labels.


One difference is that RootMedic uses a .5ml pump, rather than the 1.2 that they use. So It makes dosing a small tank a little more precise.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

OverStocked said:


> One difference is that RootMedic uses a .5ml pump, rather than the 1.2 that they use. So It makes dosing a small tank a little more precise.


That's right, even better!


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> I would actually venture to say that they are the same bottles, just different colors. Im pretty stoked to get my new products along with my new labels.


Take a pic of them and post it here so we can see. :thumbsup:


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> One difference is that RootMedic uses a .5ml pump, rather than the 1.2 that they use. So It makes dosing a small tank a little more precise.


Small tank as in a ADA 60P?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah 15-20 gallons is kinda small, but not nano tank small. Your 1.2ml pumps are fine for your setup.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

pfertz said:


> Wow, thanks for some of the great compliments, folks! Uptown - your tank looks awesome, I definitely dig the 'bling' factor
> 
> I apologize for not catching this thread earlier, but I've been dealing with some health issues that have kept me away from a lot of things.
> 
> ...


Hey Mr. Pfertz, thanks for the compliment on my tank and I hope that it will look even better using your products. As long as I see results I will be a customer.

What year was Pfertz established? It is good that you are an American company and that we can support it. I try to buy and support American products as much as I can but I had to get myself one of these ADA tanks since so many members in this forum as well as many others use have them and their work with the seams are perfect and so clean.

It is strange to hear that there are no domestic companies that manufacture plastic funnels but hey like I said you can't have everything I guess.

No comment about the Dry-fertz nazi's around here, lol. I do not want to get beat up again. To each is own on there. I like buying and dosing. Not mixing and measuring, for now at least. I do not understand the mentality either.

I agree that it is "ultimately a lifestyle choice that fits someone’s personal needs." I drink Starbucks coffee on weekends when I am lazy and just relaxing and do not want to make my Cafe Bustelo.

In the end, I like how you package your products and the ease of being able to come home from work and squirt out the fertz into my tank and put them away.

I would ask which product is better Pfertz or Roommedic but I will leave that argument alone. That would result in a 10 page debate. Lol....

Rich


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Yeah 15-20 gallons is kinda small, but not nano tank small. Your 1.2ml pumps are fine for your setup.


Oh ok cool, thanks. I was getting the feeling that 1.2 ml pumps was too much for my tank. Being specific is important in this hobby. Are the .5 pumps more for nano?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> Take a pic of them and post it here so we can see. :thumbsup:


Certainly will do.

I'm no dry fert Nazi as I really try my hardest not to impart my feelings/beliefs on this site and try to stick with the facts. I use dry ferts and I love them, the most work I have to do is select the correct spoon then stick it in the bag and dose away. So since I have both I think I can appreciate both sides of the situation. 

I like Starbucks from time to time as well. Just a little FYI, if you like the ices frappe/blended ice coffee drinks from Bucks you REALLY need to do yourself a favor and check out the McDonalds mocha/caramel frappe. I was under the assumption that since the Starbucks version if twice as much and actually contains shots of espresso that there would be no way in hell that the mcd's offering would be anywhere close. WRONG, the mcd's frappe IMO tastes better, costs half as much and gets me buzzing like a bee after I drink one. 

I think that RM and PF's are pretty similar but I do believe that RM does actually have a leg up on PF's when it comes to amounts of certain micro and macro nutrients. IF you dont want to do gown that road I understand but im sure that Justin and Alex would be more than happy to put it on the line...


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

No arguments on the McD's coffees - they are an awesome bargain! I don't typically drink super-sugary coffee drinks, so when I do have one from McD's, I'm spinning like a top 

I can't speak for RM, but all of our Guaranteed Analysis numbers are on the conservative side, but more importantly - they are fully lab tested and certified. We are licensed with the Department Of Agriculture, and part of that licensing is providing legitimate G.A. numbers. Also, as part of a guaranteed analysis, you must list the ingredients. This is law. If your numbers don't add up, and you don't list your ingredients, there are serious fines to be paid when you get caught. Not if - when. And rightfully so, you wouldn't want to pay for 20% potassium if you're only getting 5%, would you? These are also some of the steps you must take for your product to be sold in retail stores, which our products have been for quite some time. 

Take a look at Seachem & Brightwell's GA numbers, and you will see similar numbers as pfertz (at least for macros). The reason for this is because of chemical solubility - there is only so much potassium phosphate etc. that water will absorb & remain stable. Period. Once you've reached the solubility threshold, if you drop one extra grain of that chemical into solution, the chemical will crash out. We've tried to maximize nutrient content in a stable, predictable manner while maintaining the flexibility to tailor nutrient needs to each tank, hence the 4-bottle approach.


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> Hey Mr. Pfertz, thanks for the compliment on my tank and I hope that it will look even better using your products. As long as I see results I will be a customer.
> 
> What year was Pfertz established? It is good that you are an American company and that we can support it. I try to buy and support American products as much as I can but I had to get myself one of these ADA tanks since so many members in this forum as well as many others use have them and their work with the seams are perfect and so clean.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the compliments, Rich! We started officially selling on the market in 2007, but I spent over a year in development before bringing it to market. I'm with you on the funnel thing. After all of the things I've been able to source in America, its just irksome to not find that one thing. Oh well, I guess we can't have it all


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Certainly will do.
> 
> I'm no dry fert Nazi as I really try my hardest not to impart my feelings/beliefs on this site and try to stick with the facts. I use dry ferts and I love them, the most work I have to do is select the correct spoon then stick it in the bag and dose away. So since I have both I think I can appreciate both sides of the situation.
> 
> ...


I will give it a shot, the McD's mocha/caramel frappe his migh be the last weekend here in NY it will be warm, so I have to do it now.

I might switch over to dry one day in the future but I feel no reason to now.

Trouble maker, lol...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Out of old habits, I still make my own liquid trace mix........I do not dose dry. But it's a DIY mix and I can customize it for the type of tank and the different KH's. 

Those squeeze 1liter pre measuring dispensing bottles work great, I think most DIY fert sales places offer them, or buy some Pfertz bottles and add your own DIY stew to those, both are convenient.

I find the dispensing bottles work great. For automated dosing, you sort of have to go with liquids also, Dry can be done, but it's tougher to do.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

pfertz said:


> No arguments on the McD's coffees - they are an awesome bargain! I don't typically drink super-sugary coffee drinks, so when I do have one from McD's, I'm spinning like a top
> 
> I can't speak for RM, but all of our Guaranteed Analysis numbers are on the conservative side, but more importantly - they are fully lab tested and certified. We are licensed with the Department Of Agriculture, and part of that licensing is providing legitimate G.A. numbers. Also, as part of a guaranteed analysis, you must list the ingredients. This is law. If your numbers don't add up, and you don't list your ingredients, there are serious fines to be paid when you get caught. Not if - when. And rightfully so, you wouldn't want to pay for 20% potassium if you're only getting 5%, would you? These are also some of the steps you must take for your product to be sold in retail stores, which our products have been for quite some time.
> 
> Take a look at Seachem & Brightwell's GA numbers, and you will see similar numbers as pfertz (at least for macros). The reason for this is because of chemical solubility - there is only so much potassium phosphate etc. that water will absorb & remain stable. Period. Once you've reached the solubility threshold, if you drop one extra grain of that chemical into solution, the chemical will crash out. We've tried to maximize nutrient content in a stable, predictable manner while maintaining the flexibility to tailor nutrient needs to each tank, hence the 4-bottle approach.


I am going to have to try this McD coffee you guys like so much. I wanna spin like a top too. lol...

It is great to hear that your product is fully lab tested and certified and that your licensed with the DOA. As well as all that other stuff you mentioned which I have no knowledge about.

I was curious about one thing. The Iron in your product seems to be a lot lower than RM product, why is that or am I reading it wrong? Sorry in advance if I am.

Rich


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

OverStocked said:


> One difference is that RootMedic uses a .5ml pump, rather than the 1.2 that they use. So It makes dosing a small tank a little more precise.


For you, ADA, and Pfertz et al, if you offer various pump tops, say 0.5ml, 1ml, 5ml and say 10mls, that would be cool.

For say a 120 Gal tank, I'd add 30-40mls typically of a trace.
30-40 pumps I'm just not going to do.

Those self dispensing 500mls bottles with 30ml volume are also nice to have.
I would not assume a one size fits all for the amounts. Offer more options here.


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> I am going to have to try this McD coffee you guys like so much. I wanna spin like a top too. lol...
> 
> It is great to hear that your product is fully lab tested and certified and that your licensed with the DOA. As well as all that other stuff you mentioned which I have no knowledge about.
> 
> ...


No worries, Rich - that's a great question. All I can say is, according to what's _listed_, our iron numbers are lower. But - I don't know what iron Justin is using in his product (not listed last time I checked). The type of iron we use is stable, and for most tanks is plenty sufficient, as well as balanced with the rest of the chemistry. Its all about chemical stability & balance. We very rarely hear of anyone having issues with low iron while using pfertz. There's only been a couple times where people have mentioned iron deficiency to me, and they are usually running insane amounts of light, AND have a tank full of red plants. 99% of tanks do fantastic with the balanced levels of iron we provide. Hopefully that answers your question


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

RootMedic Micro:http://rootmedic.net/products-page/liquid-nutrients/micro-500

Micro Guaranteed Analysis

Iron(*EDTA, DTPA, FE Gluconate*)........	1.16%
Manganese.............................	0.06%
Copper................................	0.001%
Zinc..................................	0.004%
Boron.................................	0.014%
Molybdenum............................	0.0006%
Magnesium.............................	0.017%
Calcium...............................	0.14%
Chlorine..............................	1.1%

Certified by the SD Department of Agriculture and the University of South Dakota as well as several Ag Extension testings.

RootMedic Liquid Products are produced in a University Laboratory under order from RootMedic, under direction of a Chemist. Each batch is control tested and verified to be in compliance of the tolerance allowed by law. Batches are then transferred to my office where I hand bottle. RootMedic Macro is at the maximum solubility for water and sometimes at high altitude changes can precipitate out small amounts phosphate. This is very rare and ground shipping ensures this has only happened 1 or 2 times in the last 2 years.


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

Ahh, that clears that up. What about a 'derived from' list for all of the products, or does SD not require that?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

pfertz said:


> Ahh, that clears that up. What about a 'derived from' list for all of the products, or does SD not require that?


SD does not require that be posted, but I'd be happy to publish it in the morning when I get home. Pretty standard stuff. 

I do include the Iron parts, since it is something people ask frequently. We use all 3 forms of iron since it works more universally for all tanks with different pH values. IN solution, there is no issue with stability. In tank, FE Gluconate is gone very quickly. 

Macros are derived just like pfertz products N: Urea and KNo3, etc.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

pfertz said:


> No worries, Rich - that's a great question. All I can say is, according to what's _listed_, our iron numbers are lower. But - I don't know what iron Justin is using in his product (not listed last time I checked). The type of iron we use is stable, and for most tanks is plenty sufficient, as well as balanced with the rest of the chemistry. Its all about chemical stability & balance. We very rarely hear of anyone having issues with low iron while using pfertz. There's only been a couple times where people have mentioned iron deficiency to me, and they are usually running insane amounts of light, AND have a tank full of red plants. 99% of tanks do fantastic with the balanced levels of iron we provide. Hopefully that answers your question


Oh ok I did not know there were different types of iron. I also did not know that very high light tanks required more iron for red plants. So I am glad that I raised my light to 12" over my tank from 5". I am sure I will see better results in the coming weeks. I learn something new each day which is good. Yes that answers my question, thanks for taking the time out to do same.

Rich


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

The drinks from mcd's I'm talking about are the Frappes. They are a blended ice/coffee mix and they top it with reddiwhip (real whip cream!) and either drizzle hershys chocolate/caramel syrup on top depending on what flav you choose. Allthough, I have heard that have stepped up


Their drip coffee game recently and actually produce a pretty mean cup from what people tell me. 

I have a q about a solution that has precipitation in it. Does this effect the usefulness of the oroduct or us it purely an aesthetic inconvenience?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

bsmith said:


> The drinks from mcd's I'm talking about are the Frappes. They are a blended ice/coffee mix and they top it with reddiwhip (real whip cream!) and either drizzle hershys chocolate/caramel syrup on top depending on what flav you choose. Allthough, I have heard that have stepped up
> 
> 
> Their drip coffee game recently and actually produce a pretty mean cup from what people tell me.
> ...


Precipitated nutrients are still soluble. Obviously a few issues can arise: aesthetic and concentration. When nutrients precipitate out, they aren't in the suspension and leave some nutrients lower in the solution while the left overs at the end would be higher. The difference we're talking about is negligible, though. Differences of less than .5%. 

Older RootMedic Macros and Micros used an inferior preservative that seems to have made precipitation easier. This is no longer the case and precipitation has not been reported as an issue. 

I assume pFertz uses a particle filtration prior to bottling, and this is something RootMedic is in the process of adding. Some bottles of RootMedic may appear to have precipitate, but are actually just super saturated and have a small trace of the insoluble nutrients left behind. Future filtration will reduce this haze, but it in no way effects to performance of the product(negatively) and may in fact give you slightly more than "as advertised". Very negligible amounts, though and within compliance.


The McD's frappies are yumtastic. My partner gives me crap all day long at work because I get at least 1 every day.


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

OverStocked said:


> SD does not require that be posted, but I'd be happy to publish it in the morning when I get home. Pretty standard stuff.


You may want to look into that a little further, to avoid problems with the state - SD is like AZ in many ways, as far as ag stuff goes. Check out section 38-19-15, part 4:

(4) The source or sources from which the nitrogen phosphorus and potassium are derived.

It might warrant looking into further - definitely save yourself some headache by complying. Some ag departments aren't so nice about infractions. Fines can be pretty steep, and the ag department can shut you down immediately if they find out. Just a friendly 'heads-up'


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

pfertz said:


> You may want to look into that a little further, to avoid problems with the state - SD is like AZ in many ways, as far as ag stuff goes. Check out section 38-19-15, part 4:
> 
> (4) The source or sources from which the nitrogen phosphorus and potassium are derived.
> 
> It might warrant looking into further - definitely save yourself some headache by complying. Some ag departments aren't so nice about infractions. Fines can be pretty steep, and the ag department can shut you down immediately if they find out. Just a friendly 'heads-up'


Our labels state the "derived from" our website just doesn't have it all listed. Our labels have to be approved, so that part has been covered a few times now.


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

OverStocked said:


> Our labels state the "derived from" our website just doesn't have it all listed. Our labels have to be approved, so that part has been covered a few times now.


Just trying to help a fellow small business owner out


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

pfertz said:


> Just trying to help a fellow small business owner out


No I appreciate it. We learned the "hard" way a few times. Never fined, but had to pull and relabel products and the like. Getting into we just didn't have any idea about all of the hurdles. 

Our only retail store location is in Montreal, Quebec and to make matters worse there, labeling has to include French so we had to create a second label for everything, plus meet the unusually hard importation requirements of Quebec.


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

OverStocked said:


> No I appreciate it. We learned the "hard" way a few times. Never fined, but had to pull and relabel products and the like. Getting into we just didn't have any idea about all of the hurdles.
> 
> Our only retail store location is in Montreal, Quebec and to make matters worse there, labeling has to include French so we had to create a second label for everything, plus meet the unusually hard importation requirements of Quebec.


Yeah, Canada is tough to deal with. NAFTA offers nothing but more headaches. We have a few stores in Western Canada, but it is a rediculous amount of work & cost to get anything to our Great Northern Neighbors. Gotta love beaurocracy :wink:


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Not to mention that UPS freight seems to think our crates are hockey pucks or crash test dummies...


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> For you, ADA, and Pfertz et al, if you offer various pump tops, say 0.5ml, 1ml, 5ml and say 10mls, that would be cool.
> 
> For say a 120 Gal tank, I'd add 30-40mls typically of a trace.
> 30-40 pumps I'm just not going to do.
> ...


Yea you are right and that makes a lot of sense what you said. I am sure if I had many tanks and/or 1 120g tank I would not be buying the pumps fertz only because it might be to expensive to maintain even with the 1 gallon jugs they offer. It says 1 pump per 10 gallons so 120g would be about 12 pumps everyday. That would require a DIY method to save money, unless the person can afford it and does not mind which I am sure there are many people that do as well. Just depends on the person situation.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Wow. I did not know that selling these fertz required you guys to follow all these rules, laws and regulations, not to mentions lab testing and label making and everything else you mentioned. I was thinking that you guys are in your garage measuring and mixing this stuff up then bottling the bottles up and mailing then out to us. I had no idea there was so much involved. That is crazy, maybe people reading this thread will appreciate you guys more and also learn something about this like I have today. Good work.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Uptown193 said:


> Wow. I did not know that selling these fertz required you guys to follow all these rules, laws and regulations, not to mentions lab testing and label making and everything else you mentioned. I was thinking that you guys are in your garage measuring and mixing this stuff up then bottling the bottles up and mailing then out to us. I had no idea there was so much involved. That is crazy, maybe people reading this thread will appreciate you guys more and also learn something about this like I have today. Good work.


Thats how we started and spent a good deal of time. I would actually love to just do it at home(and am more than capable) but since this isn't my "full time" job I have a friend who is a chemist use this as "teaching" time for his new TA's each semester. The cost is just over what it would cost me to do it, and it takes zero time. 

I'm not sure where Alex does his mixing/mad science, but would assume they make their own as they are much higher volume that RootMedic.


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

I do everything in a van, down by the river


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

pfertz said:


> I do everything in a van, down by the river


That was you???

I knew it...roud:

Na but now I and I am sure a lot of other people that read this thread have learned something, I know I have. Maybe the dry-fert guys will appreciate it more. Excuse me now while I go squirt some fertilizer in my tank now with my pretty little bottles.


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## CrazyCatPeekin (Aug 15, 2011)

I got my Pfertz last week and am so far very pleased. I actually emailed for support regarding nano tanks and got a quick, informative and pleasant reply from Alex.

And, I gotta admit, I do like the pretty little bottles!


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

CrazyCatPeekin said:


> I got my Pfertz last week and am so far very pleased. I actually emailed for support regarding nano tanks and got a quick, informative and pleasant reply from Alex.
> 
> And, I gotta admit, I do like the pretty little bottles!


Good, I am glad I wasn't the only one...


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

Just ordered High-Tech Plus ([n], [p], [k], [m] + [r]) from Pfertz! I can't wait to get them in. I'm too tired of trying to properly dose with Seachem.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

aXio said:


> Just ordered High-Tech Plus ([n], [p], [k], [m] + [r]) from Pfertz! I can't wait to get them in. I'm too tired of trying to properly dose with Seachem.


Congrats. It is very easy and practical for me.


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## pfertz (Jun 26, 2007)

aXio said:


> Just ordered High-Tech Plus ([n], [p], [k], [m] + [r]) from Pfertz! I can't wait to get them in. I'm too tired of trying to properly dose with Seachem.


Thanks for the order, aXio!!


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

pfertz said:


> Thanks for the order, aXio!!


Hey Pfertz, what can I do to bring out the red more in my plants?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Uptown193 said:


> Hey Pfertz, what can I do to bring out the red more in my plants?


Add more traces and GH, the rest are other things(light/CO2, plant variety, maybe KH etc).


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

So if I many I did want to comment on Rootmedic. One of the main reasons that I did not go with Rootmedic is because there were no pictures of your product to be found on your website. I know it may sound silly but to some people it's very important to see what they buy before they dish out their money.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

aXio said:


> So if I many I did want to comment on Rootmedic. One of the main reasons that I did not go with Rootmedic is because there were no pictures of your product to be found on your website. I know it may sound silly but to some people it's very important to see what they buy before they dish out their money.


This is something we are working to correct quickly. The initial images taken a few weeks back all had a poor color rendering and I am doing it myself this time, but will not be able to do it till saturday. 

Thanks for the feedback.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Add more traces and GH, the rest are other things(light/CO2, plant variety, maybe KH etc).


Do you think the terrestrial plants are causing this problem in my tank. I kinda noticed this changed after I added the terrestrial plants 2 weeks ago. I have good lighting and Co2 almost 24hrs a day. They were doing so good and all of a sudden they are weak and the stems are just dying off. I spent a lot of money on these plants too :icon_frow


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

If they went from emmersed to immersed, you might have a normal melting issue that can occur during the transition.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> If they went from emmersed to immersed, you might have a normal melting issue that can occur during the transition.


I took out those plants tonight. I noticed that the leaves on the Purple Temple were flaking off and falling off. I wish the store I bought them from would have told me this before I spent my money. Thank god they were cheap. I hope that was the only issue. I think so because I was not having a problem before that.


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

Wooohooo!!


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

aXio said:


> Wooohooo!!


Congrats. Nice picture. I love the Smurf figurine, my gf is jealous. I didn't get the root tabs with my order :-(


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

Uptown193 said:


> Congrats. Nice picture. I love the Smurf figurine, my gf is jealous. I didn't get the root tabs with my order :-(


My girlfriend was jealous too... so I had to buy two of them. =) They are from Germany.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

aXio said:


> My girlfriend was jealous too... so I had to buy two of them. =) They are from Germany.


Kool did you buy them online?

Also, what kind of camera do you use I need a decent camera?


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

Uptown193 said:


> Kool did you buy them online?
> 
> Also, what kind of camera do you use I need a decent camera?


Ya i got them online, but I believe you can find them at hobby stores too. The are made by a company called Schleich.

For the camera question... I use a Nikon D3000. Which is an entry level DSLR. I got it for about 500$ last year at Best Buy during Black Friday. It came with a VR lens too, it was a pretty good deal at the time. I LOVE it so far and have had absolutely no problem with it. It works well for what I need, and it takes professional quality photos with out having to spend 1000$ on a high end SLR.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

aXio said:


> Ya i got them online, but I believe you can find them at hobby stores too. The are made by a company called Schleich.
> 
> For the camera question... I use a Nikon D3000. Which is an entry level DSLR. I got it for about 500$ last year at Best Buy during Black Friday. It came with a VR lens to it was a pretty good deal at the time. I LOVE it so far and have had absolutely no problem with it. It works well for what I need, and it takes professional quality photos with out having to spend 1000$ on a high end SLR.


Oh ok kool I will Google them.

Yea I need a decent camera. Maybe I can get a good deal on Black Friday this year. I never took advantage of that day, maybe I will this year for the first time.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Can someone tell me what more I need to do. The tops portion of my Red Nasala plants are turning green now. Why is this? I have CO2, I dose daily with Pfertz and I have good lighting. What am I doing wrong?

Could the high light and CO2 be depleting the nutrients in the water to fast?

Maybe I should cut down on the dosing. It seems like I was getting better growth and color without the Pfertz. I am confused.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

I guess not


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Just find out what Tom Barr uses when he wants red plants irregardless of the nitrate levels, light levels or CO2 levels.


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## dundadundun (Apr 8, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> Just find out what Tom Barr uses when he wants red plants irregardless of the nitrate levels, light levels or CO2 levels.


i'll take chelated iron for $300, pat. :icon_lol: (should be in the micro solution)


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Just find out what Tom Barr uses when he wants red plants irregardless of the nitrate levels, light levels or CO2 levels.


Yea I been reading a lot of posts from him and others from using the search option. What i learned from reading all those posts is that the red coloring in plants are from stress, how much of that is true remains to be known. Some say you can get red plants from high light and some say then why are some red plants red from being in the shade all the time. Then some go on to say that you get red plants from more iron. Then some say it is from a certain nitrate level. I can go on with the many different reasons plants are red and why they turn green. So therefore, with all these different reasons no one knows for sure. :icon_ques :icon_conf


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

In his latest journal Tom claims he doesn't do anything special other than get red plants that stay red. He also claims he never has any algae problems and he doesn't even try very hard in either case. I believe he's telling the truth, but I'm not sure if a lot of us can replicate his results as easily.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> In his latest journal Tom claims he doesn't do anything special other than get red plants that stay red. He also claims he never has any algae problems and he doesn't even try very hard in either case. I believe he's telling the truth, but I'm not sure if a lot of us can replicate his results as easily.


Well for one, I do not have any algae problems at all and I think that is from only using lights for 7-8 hours a day, using the Japonica (Amano) shrimps, an Otto and not to mention 20% bi-weekly water changes which is very important, oh and cleaning the inside glass. The Japonica shrimps are amazing and work tirelessly all day. So I can see why Tom has no problems with algae since I think I read that he uses these shrimps as well. I do not try hard either, it comes down to having a love for the hobby and giving you tank the proper maintenance like I do.

I believe that Tom gets his plants red because he has the proper water parameters for that as well as the correct lighting and nutrient dosage. It should not be that hard if you have all of these.


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## travis.808 (Apr 6, 2009)

Nice tank! Just finished reading this thread. Still no pictures from root medic? I may be going with pfertz by default.


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## Lucille (Jun 15, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> In his latest journal Tom claims he doesn't do anything special other than get red plants that stay red. He also claims he never has any algae problems and he doesn't even try very hard in either case. I believe he's telling the truth, but I'm not sure if a lot of us can replicate his results as easily.


That is SO beautiful!!!!


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