# Multicote?



## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

Someone must have an opinion. Even if it's a bad one, I'd still like to read it.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

about the only difference I see from osmocote (besides differences in amounts) would be the Urea Osmocote doesnt have any of that in it. I dont know what impact dosing urea would have. but I figured I would point it out maybe someone else has some input on that.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yeah my osmocote doesnt have urea(dangerous to fish) or Mn, Mo, or Zn. That seems like alot of heavy metals for a tank. I know for a fact osmocote is safe so I dont use anything else. I cant say for sure if its safe. Id save that for terrestrial plants and get osmocote for your tank.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

I'll have to look around online for some osmocote plus then. I can only find regular osmocote around here.

I wish I had an idea of how fast the metals would enter the water. 

Is urea really that big of a deal? It's generally considered non toxic and is added to cattle feed to increase amino acid synthesis in the rumen.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

I'm on the fence now. Apparently urea converts to NH4 almost immediately in the water and that's why it can be harmful to fish (which excrete urea, but in low amounts obviously). It seems that slow release urea wouldn't be much different than fish waste ammonia. 

I also found this product



















In my stand, which I used before I knew about root tabs. I never had trouble from the metals in these sticks. They're actually the same metals, but more highly concentrated than in the multicote. These things are basically osmocote looking balls in a plastic spike. Now, urea is the only thing that still bothers me. It seems that being slowly released, and under the substrate plant roots and bacteria should get to it before much could ever get into the water column.

Hopefully someone with a better working knowledge of biochemistry can weigh in. Maybe Ill fill my quarantine tank and stick a plant in there with multicote under it. I can test the ammonia level over a few weeks. That will likely lead to a permanantly planted tank though, and I'd have to buy a new quarantine tank.

Why is it that no one considers the ammonium nitrate to be unsafe?


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

I just found a post, from the most reliable source possible, stating that root medic complete contains urea. I'm not worried about this product any more.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

Wo!. I'm really blowing up my own thread with posts.

Osmocote pro contains urea also. I just looked up the guaranteed analysis online. It's a higher percentage than in multicote, as are some of the metals. Plus doesn't however. Metals are still higher.


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## leviathan0 (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm looking at Osmocote alternatives myself, so I'm quite enjoying the little journey of discovery you have going here.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

Sharkfood said:


> Wo!. I'm really blowing up my own thread with posts.
> 
> Osmocote pro contains urea also. I just looked up the guaranteed analysis online. It's a higher percentage than in multicote, as are some of the metals. Plus doesn't however. Metals are still higher.


I was looking at my bottle of osmocote "flower and vegtable" no pro or plus on my bottle. 

I think your allowed to blow up your own threads with posts ( I dont think anyone can accuse you of thread jacking in that case) :hihi:

I got thinking and digging around, I do have some old jobes fertilizer spikes for aquatic plants and they contain 0.9% urea nitrogen. they were for my old indoor koi pond that I had some lillies in, I have never looked at what was in them untill now. used them years ago but I dont throw fish stuff away.....


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

The flower/veggie stuff is the type of osmocote I have also. I'll probably use that also. I was just hoping to get something with added minerals. Maybe I'll make a mix of two types of tabs. That way I can get some minerals and maybe get a lower amount of urea. 

There is something unsettling to the thought off adding pee to my fishes' environment.


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## dmagerl (Feb 2, 2010)

I made some ferticicles with this stuff about a month ago. So far, there's been no adverse affects.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

i just went to lowes today, grabed myself 4 bottles of osmocote Plus for $40, they sold me $10 each for the bottle, they said they will no longer carry them. so i got the discount on them. anyway i then looked at Multicote, but some of the ingredients are low compare to the osmocote Plus. the only thing osmocote doesnt have is urea. 

http://74.6.117.48/search/srpcache?...5&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=ETRn3EToX8n4DOzUeVcylw--

i think you can use it if you want this to happen:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...uq&sigi=160tamlvj&sigb=11smn1nu4&fr=yfp-t-701


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

I still don't see why urea would be any more toxic than ammonium nitrate. The whole concept is that it contains amines which are toxic, as does ammonium nitrate. If anything, urea is a more natural product, although the urea in our fertilizer was produced synthetically. It's the major way in which animals detoxify ammonia in the body. 


The research you linked to talked basically about urea excretion by rainbow trout, and retention to facilitate osmoregulation in marine fish when exposed to diluted seawater. One article was only concerned with expression of an RNA that facilitates retention. It was interesting, but not really relevant to the discussion of urea as a fertilizer. The fish in the photo were killed by an algae bloom.

I'm not an advocate for the urea based fertilizer industry or anything of the sort. I'm just struggling to understand why everyone is ringing the alarm bell for urea when other fertilizers are just as toxic, or possibly more so as the end result of the ingredients in both multicote and osmocote is ammonia. Granted ammoniacal (counting urea as since it contains amines also) nitrogen content of multicote is 4% higher, but I'd think overall application would matter more than per gram content.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I guess at this point id take the advice earlier from dmagerl. As an added bonus, I use those sticks. As a matter of fact ive had them for years and both end caps come off so you can shove a skewer down them to get the old stuff out, and replace it with new osmocote. Mine have lasted at least 5 years. I just refill them when I happen to find them when moving plants. With all 5 cents worth of new root tabs(osmocote). FWIW, mine is also the regular, not the pro.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

That's a good idea. I never thought of reusing those sticks. Now if I can just remember where they are under the substrate......

I have regular osmo I use on my indoor plants. I'm going to make most of my tabs out of that and sparingly use the multicote ones until I get over my gunshyness (ureashyness?). I'll use most of the multicote on my indoor vegetables until it runs out. Then I'll quit being a stubborn idiot and order some osmo plus.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Ammonical Nitrogen is used in TONS of aquarium fertilizer. It just so happens I'm one of the few that actually tell you it is in my products! PFertz does as well. 

Plants use up ammonical nitrogen MUCH faster than KNO3. This is good, not bad. 

I dose my tanks(with relatively senstive c. regani and apistos) at much higher than anyone would ever dose them and have regular breeding, lush colors, and great growth--from my plants AND fish. 

I do not know if this product as a WHOLE is safe, but the urea is not going to be a problem.

I've done controlled tests on many osmocote products(many of the pro options) and the urea is of the least of our concerns. The metals included are also in osmocote plus and micro supplements. There is barely any there and no reason to freak out.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

Thanks overstocked. I've used your complete tabs and thought they were great. Your advice is truly appreciated and I don't think anyone could doubt that you know what you're talking about.

I'm glad you chimed in about the urea. Obviously though, I would never add it straight to the water column. 

Other than urea, the ingredient list is identical to osmocote plus although concentrations are slightly (very slightly) different.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

You might even notice that the analysis is similar(very) to RM complete and another highly respected aquarium brand(hard to come by in the USA). I am not sure if multicoat is a membrane product, and if not I would be cautious about how much you use. It might dissolve quicker. The RM membrane is designed for water, while others are not. 

The reason the formulas are similar: it works!

RootMedic liquid and Pfertz both have urea in them(not a lot) so that there is a useful amount of nitrogen. KNO3 has a very low solubility so if we didn't add it, there would be next to no nitrogen. Any liquid fert worth a darn has it, otherwise you'd have to dose a TON!

As long as you aren't dosing far beyond advised, you will be fine. 

To see if it is a membrane product, put it in a cup of water and let it soak for a day. Pull a piece out and squeeze. If it doesn't "pop" it is not a membrane product. i do not know what binder they would use, so I have no insight beyond differentiating.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

Thanks. I'll try that.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks Justin for clearing up the situation on urea. This has been in question for me for a long time. With that being said, I still feel theres no substitute for starting a tank out right by providing something natural that plants desire. Dirt. MTS, wormcastings, a peat mix, etc...Cap it with your substrate of choice. In one form or another. Your tanks will do better with a substrate fertilizer rather than an inert substrate like plain gravel, eco, terra, flourite, etc...


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

chad320 said:


> Thanks Justin for clearing up the situation on urea. This has been in question for me for a long time. With that being said, I still feel theres no substitute for starting a tank out right by providing something natural that plants desire. Dirt. MTS, wormcastings, a peat mix, etc...Cap it with your substrate of choice. In one form or another. Your tanks will do better with a substrate fertilizer rather than an inert substrate like plain gravel, eco, terra, flourite, etc...


Ironically the "natural" product they produce to start is ammonia. But MTS works amazingly. I replant my plants way to much to tolerate it though.


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