# Plant newbie here...flourite/fine natural gravel?



## Wowi (Sep 16, 2003)

ok guys i just got my 50 gal planted tank set up....i was short on cash so i bought 15 pounds of flourite, and 50 pounds of fine natural gravel. i put the flourite on the bottom, with the gravel on top. my question is, will this substrate be enough nourishment for the plants? i also have NO problem buying fertilizer to supplement it or iron supplment, so basically what i am wondering is will i be able to grow a nice lush tank with the substrate i have? thanks


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## BonesCJ (Jan 13, 2003)

The general consesus I have seen on the board and from the manufacturers web site is that for Flourite to do any good it needs to be at least a 50/50 mix with gravel. Also you shouldn't need to bury it on the bottom, unlike Laterite which should be buried deep Flourite can be used as an integral substrate completly exposed to open water. This may be even better because it will have access to the liquid ferts you might use and soak some of them up for later release.


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

I supppose you might do OK with that, but I would mix it, not put it on the bottom.

James


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

There are some very succesful plant aquarists that use gravel only and fish poop for substrate. When I started in this hobby I used gravel only and I'd be hard pressed to see a difference. It really all boils down to fertilization. The whole science behind hydroponics is based on growing plants in an inert substrate, these same principles also apply to a planted tank.

I think that a flourite/laterite substrate might be a little more forgiving if your fertilization routine is not quite consistent in that those substrates will act as a nutrient sponge and release them to the plants if the water column becomes depleted.

Which begs the question; Hows your fert routine?


Marcel


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## djlen (Sep 14, 2003)

I agree with Marcel. Substrate is one thing, but proper fertilization is one of the keys to balancing a planted tank along with weekly water changes.
I would mix it up with the other substrate. Get another bag if you can afford it.
Another thing to be considered is that many plants draw more iron from the water table than the substrate. My Crypts were doing nothing in 100% flourite until I started regularly dosing Seachem Iron into the water.
Since then they have taken off and look great.

Len


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

Have you thought about using a gravel/soil mixed substrate? Try a search on this site and you'll find some good articles about such substrates.


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## JLudwig (Sep 9, 2003)

Wowi said:


> what i am wondering is will i be able to grow a nice lush tank with the substrate i have? thanks


A lot of planted tank wisdom goes back to the days before water column ferts... 10 years ago the way to grow plants was with a soil substrate, no CO2, and dim lighting (not bright because algae would grow without CO2, etc)... the substrate was the key. Then the Dupla system seems to have showed up which got everyone on this substrate heating/laterite kick....

It does not seem to be as important as some the older anecdotes say, as already pointed out by others. John Wheeler has tried a bunch of substrates, and his most recent setup I've seen is blasting sand from the Home Despot down the road - water column ferts only. I use flourite, I like the looks of it and keep small tanks so it wasnt too bad, but I'm not so sure its really anything magical. Here's the way to test:

Setup two small tanks, same water, sharing a light source, inject CO2 from yeast... keep it cheap but substrate as the only difference, huge daily water changes to keep nutrient levels the same, try a few stem plants, measure dry weight... I hope to do this soon, theres a lot of heresay with substrate, not a lot of data.... I would also like to repeat this experiment with traces...


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## catfish (Sep 9, 2003)

Hi everyone, newbie here, great forum.
I have a 20G lightly planted tank with about 8 fish. I just got an Amazon Plant, not sure which one. I went to buy a Blood tetra and saw the plant at LFS, with only two leaves and not looking so good. I asked the lady how much she was asking for it and she gave it to me for free. I am planning to get a 30G tank next month and cant decide on what to use as a sustrate. I heard volcanic rocks was pretty good and looks great. Thou i dont know where i can get some around here, the other option was to use wood bark, half dollar size, but i am told it will start to float sooner or later. I saw a great Tank setup with sand, but i would like to know the drawbacks of using this. Any other suggestions? 
Thanks


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

catfish:
Crushed volcanic rock would make a pretty good substrate but be cautious as it its source. Don't do anything too coarse. I've never seen wood bark used, so experiment at your own risk.
Given the alternatives, I'd use plain sand on top of a layer of potting soil. 
Wowi:
I think your substrate is taken care of. Focus on other needs now. CO2, light, etc.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I think wood bark will float like a cork but I could be wrong. Its hard enough to get hardwood to sink but there might be some barks that would sink that I'm not aware of. Assuming you could get the bark to sink, tannins leaching into the water column might be a real nuisance for a long time. Messy, messy. This is all just speculation though.

Marcel


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## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

I would just stick with the tried and true... Flourite with a 50/50 mix of gravel. This will give you a nice looking substrate as well as one that will not pack down. 

I have a 40 gal setup with this type of substrate and have had no problems with it and the plants are doing great!!! But if you do have the experimenting attitude then try some of the things that have been suggested. 

Good luck and happy planting!!!


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## catfish (Sep 9, 2003)

thanks for the input everyone!

The part of experimenting is fun, however, the priority here is budget. I would like very much to try Flourite, but i have to get it from Nogales, or probably Tucson, Az. And thats about 4 hour drive plus expenses. This is why i am looking for some alternatives locally. Actually i found a place that can sell me a large bag of Volcanic rock for about 5$US, pretty cheap, i brought a few rocks with me to see how it would look. It looks pretty cool, but one thing, you got to clean those rocks very good before you put the in the tank, or else youll get brownish water. Glad i put them in a small fishbowl and not in the main tank, je je. I also found crushed seashells, and they make the tanks light up very well. Still have about a month to go so i will keep on searching till i find somehting. I thinking of getting two options and setting one up first, and in 6 or 8 months change to the other. I am like a lot of you, satisfaction never truly achieved.

Thanks


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