# Cyanobacteria in the brackish shrimp tank



## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Erythromycin should not harm your invertebrates, but will wipe out the BGA quite readily.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Guess I'm a bit of a worry wart when it comes to medicines in a tank. Think I'll try lowering the light levels for starters.

Water movement can help, too, or so I've read, but with that the shrimp hide. 

Decisions...


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

If I'm not mistaken bga is actually a bacteria , and not an algae. It won't respond to a lower light schedule. 

I know that the easiest and safest way to get rid of it is to just dose erythromycin which is an antibiotic.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Yup, it's a bacteria, but a photosynthetic one. 

I think. 

Have you used erythromycin with shrimp, Liam? 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Been Googling "aquarium antibiotics", seems, (according to one source, anyway), that some antibiotics won't work in aquariums containing high pH water, that they bind with calcium. It further states that erythromycin can wreak havic with the nitrifying bacteria in the filter bed. 

Hum. 

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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

cyano is a bacteria that is photosynthetic. its most limiting factors are phosphorus, iron, molybdenum, in that order. it is capable of nitrification and denitrification, so it will grow in the presence of ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite, but can also survive with only dissolved atmospheric n2. it is only capable of fixing nitrogen at about 10% of its maximum capacity during periods darkness, so although a blackout usually will not kill it by itself, it usually will stop it from spreading. 

black outs work best at night because the stratification that occurs between different saturation levels of different gasses. at the bottom where most cyano is, the oxygen gets used up while the cyano uses it, while there is more oxygen at the surface, where dissolved gasses can exchange with atmospheric air.

removing phosphorus will slow it down dramatically, since it needs phosphorus to produce the lining of its cells. also, if you can find anything that removes molybdenum, it will prevent it from spreading as fast. molybdenum is used in special cells called fix nitrogen, which also happen to be the fastest reproducing cell. they also have a thick encapsulating layer around them, which helps to prevent oxidation through the cell membrane. 

removing iron works just like it would with any plant. no iron, no chlorophyll. i dont think i need to explain that one. 

if you want more information on cyano, look into getting Wetzels book, "Limnology, Lake and River Ecosystems" third edition. chapter 15 deals with nothing but algae and cyanobacteria.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Thanks for that, Auban, 

I just stopped at Petco and found a product that removes phosphates and silicates. Will try that... Will remove as much of the cyanobacteria as I can by hand first. 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Decreased the lighting. Removed the LEDs, down to just a comparatively dim 50 /50 fluorescent. 

Removed as much of the cyanobacteria by hand as possible. Still some attached to bits of live rock and on the sand in places where my meat hooks couldn't reach. 

Have a phosphate test in the mail, will test the tank before adding the resin. 

Shrimp doing great in the shade.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Got the phosphate test kit. The problem isn't elevated levels, test barely changes color. 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

After lowering the light levels in the tank, the growth of the remaining bits of cyanobacteria seem to have slowed and they are no longer "pearling". 

Seems that's good news! 

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## Loumeer (Feb 13, 2012)

I am in the middle of a huge issue with this bacteria. So far I have been using

http://www.amazon.com/Ultralife-Ree...492&sr=8-1&keywords=blue+green+algae+aquarium

with great success in my 55 gallon turtle tank.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Ummm... Not sure something safe with turtles is safe for inverts. 

I have noticed, since cutting way back on lighting, that the new cyanobacteria is actually blue green instead of green brown. 

Not really a step in the right direction, I'm sure.


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## Loumeer (Feb 13, 2012)

Rob in Puyallup said:


> Ummm... Not sure something safe with turtles is safe for inverts.
> 
> I have noticed, since cutting way back on lighting, that the new cyanobacteria is actually blue green instead of green brown.
> 
> Not really a step in the right direction, I'm sure.


I am a bit confused and I don't mean any offense but if you had taken the time to follow the link you would have read in the description



> Ultralife Reef Blue Green Algae Remover UltraLife Blue Green Algae Remover is a revolutionary time tested product, that will effectively and safely remove Blue Green Algae quickly from all Freshwater Fish, Plants and Invertebrates. UltraLife BGR contains natural cellular matter, select biological accelerators and special supplements proven effective in removing Blue Green Algae from Freshwater Fish, Plants and Invertebrates and is Safe for desirable macro-algae, nitrifying bacteria and fish.


I have used both Ultralife and Maracyn (Erythromycin).

The Ultralife in just my turtle tanks and the Maracyn in both my turtle tank and my shrimp tank. They both worked but I found the Maracyn took a lot more doses (about 6 -7 days worth) and it came back a few months afterwards and the Ultralife only took 2 doses 48 hours apart. The Ultralife was far more economical for the 55 gallon, not sure if that is an issue. To dose 55 gallons of Maracyn for 7 days it took me 6 packets each day which is around $1 dollar per packet. The ultralife got rid of it so far with only the 1 tube that I bought (only $14).

Either way you should have all the information you need from this thread. changing the photoperiod will only strengthen the cyanobacteria in my experience. The only way I was able to get rid of this stuff is with dosing.

http://www.amazon.com/Mardel-Freshw...e=UTF8&qid=1358837109&sr=8-5&keywords=maracyn


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

I did read it, and found little information on what the product contains, except that it doesn't contain erythromycin. 

I will do a Google search on it to see what others have to say. 

Thanks!


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Lol! Link is opening to something called Ultra life Reef Blue Green algae remover. 

Do see in that link the name of Mardel. Will find my way to it. 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

I bought some API Erythromycin Saturday, basically the same product. 

I've read conflicting data on the safety of antibiotics such as this when used with live rock. 

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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

the only true non chemical way to actively kill cyano that i know of is UVC, as in a germicidal bulb(since uv sterilizer wont actually shine on it). other than that, its the usual methods of decreasing light, trying to eliminate phosphates, raising nitrates(but i dont think that will work in your case...), etc.
it wouldnt fix the underlying issue though...

removing it physically helps. if it is running on a low amount of nutrients, removing it keeps whatever is locked up in it out of the column.

im not sure how antibiotics will affect the live rock. it would worry me, but i have never tried it, so i cant say if there is any danger.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Maracyn-Two is safe. It's a product I've used myself - both fresh and marine versions - with invertebrates.


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## plamski (Sep 25, 2009)

Erythromycin is OK for shrimps. I test it with Neos, CRS, tigers. I don't know how TB's will be. Cardinal Sulawesi has been wiped out on second day -at least on me.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

One of the sources of my concern:

http://www.reefdup.com/2012/02/08/cyanobacteria/


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Maracyn-Two will not harm the beneficial bacteria within your tank.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Working in that direction, Jake.

Seems API EM erythromycin is the same med, isn't it? I have some of that.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

No, not the same. 

Maracyn-Two is Minocycline.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

End up trying anything to eradicate it?


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

I returned the erythromycin and got the Maracyn 2 on my way to work last night. Will throw some in the tank tonight. 

Carefully. 

 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

I could only find the freshwater version. I've read that to use it in salt water it takes twice the dose: 20 mg per 10 gallons vs 10 mg per 10 gallon. 

I think I need to wake up. 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Okay... I've added the recommended 10 gallon freshwater dose, two packets. 

Fingers crossed! 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Just added the second dose. No obvious difference to the cyanobacteria at this point.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Hopefully it'll do the trick after the five day course.

Usually does the trick for me in freshwater.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Thanks, fingers still crossed!  

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Noticed when I added yesterday's dose that the bluegreen colored cyanobacteria had turned a pea-green. Today it seems like the medication may be affecting the caulerpa. Much of it has lost it's color and looks like it's "melting". 

I see a big water change coming. 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Still looking awful in the 10 gallon tank. 

Today's the last dose of Maracyn 2.

Tomorrow a big partial water change with the addition of a HOB filter with purigen and maybe a toothbrush to scrub the live rock. 

I've said it before: I hate disturbing my shrimps little world. 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Tank so fuzzy the camera can't focus.


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## KenP (Nov 8, 2012)

Do you think any shrimp other than H. rubra could deal with treatment?


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Is supposed to be safe for inverts and bacterial beds if used according to instructions. 

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## KenP (Nov 8, 2012)

Seeing such a cloudy tank would make my heart skip a beat. I hope you win the BGA war.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Says on the med box that it will cloud the water, so I was expecting it. 

Still, doesn't make it an alltogether pleasant experience. 

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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Maracyn-Two is definitely invert safe. I've used it with Neos, Crystals, TBs with no issues.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Okay... Have cleaned up the remaining cyanobacteria in the tank. Well, the parts that I could get without tearing down the tank. Hard telling what was alive or dead. 
Did a 5 gallon water change and hung a new HOB (HOfront in this case), filter with a sponge prefilter, a bag of Purigen and the carbon cartridge that came with it. The water is slowly clearing up. 

I found one of the baby opae swimming after the water change. Guess the stresses and changes in it's environment hasn't been too bad, though it's worried me a whole lot. 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Found my first dead opae ula ever this morning in the 10 gallon tank. :-\ 

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## KenP (Nov 8, 2012)

Rob look on the positive side. Maybe the shrimp was old and died from age. A question or two. The folks that sold you the shrimp tank raised or not? The reason I ask is from your pictures all the shrimp look the same size. There does not look like a mix of sizes. You may have asked for adult size only.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Three different sources, Ken. Two from Hawaii, the third Texas. I received 5 larva from the seller in Texas. 

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## KenP (Nov 8, 2012)

Looks like the Texas seller has tank reared shrimp. Morally they should sell for more but hard to compete financially with field collected.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

A great vendor who I've kept in touch with. Breeds many different species of shrimp. 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Now not entirely sure that all of the cyanobacteria went away with the Maracyn 2 treatment. Have had the HOT filter running full blast for two days, the water still a bit cloudy, nothing like it was, though. The Opae Ula still swimming, not hiding like I expected. 

Not really pleased with the new cyano growth... 

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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Yup, the cyano is coming back with a vengeance, even with the reduced lighting, the increased water movement and the Maracyn 2.

Found on another thread, http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=232338 , that according to the "Redfield Ratio", http://buddendo.home.xs4all.nl/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm , the cause of cyanobacteria is combination of nitrates and phosphates. They're out of the correct balance.

In my tank Nitrates measured 0 and Phosphates the same.

I'd post a picture of the increased nastiness but I've reached my photo max...


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

A picture of tonight's episode of cyanobacteria...


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## Loumeer (Feb 13, 2012)

I think you will have more success with Maracyn 1 or the other stuff I discussed earlier. I am not entirely sure but I think that Cyano is a bit more susceptible to Maracyn 1. Granted I would wait a while because you have probably been stressing the shrimp out.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Gonna try Maracyn tomorrow. Erythromycin. Maybe. If I can drum up the courage! 

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## Loumeer (Feb 13, 2012)

Just turn off the filter when you dose it and let the Maracyn sink to the bottom. After it all dissolved then turn the filter on. That way there is no way for you filter to get a concentrated dose.


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## KenP (Nov 8, 2012)

Ugly red carpet.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Yup. It's moved onto some of the live rock as well. Is why I want to get rid of it


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Today. Delaying the erythromycin.


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## plamski (Sep 25, 2009)

I saw result after 4th-5th day in my freshwater tank.


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## KenP (Nov 8, 2012)

Rob any updates on removing the Cyanobacteria.


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

Hi Ken, 

For the time being I'm trying a more natural route, adding a bacteria supplement hoping it'll out compete the cyanobacteria. I'm still being a bit of an over protective dad to my kids, I'm afraid, and would rather not subject them to antibiotics unless nothing else works.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Have you tried dosing nitrates? If there are some plants in the tank to use the nitrates this can knock down cyanobacteria.


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## Pugman (Jan 27, 2012)

I know this is a little late but "Chemi-Clean" works every time. It will disappear overnight. I've been using it for nearly 20 years.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

pugman, is that safe with inverts?


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## Pugman (Jan 27, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> pugman, is that safe with inverts?


Yes safe for everything. It will make your skimmer go crazy tho. Add and air pump with air stone and it will work even faster. Use as directed and bye bye Cyano. Best product hands down for saltwater Cyano. I wish it worked for Freshwater.


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