# Atomic Inline Co2 Diffuser 16?



## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/11707-reactor-build.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/12331-survey-external-co2-reactor-users.html

I like GLA Diffuser my self.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Spanks for the links! You satisfied with your reactor?

Was your DIY much cheaper than $40? I live in DC without a car - our local hardware stores charge a premium for parts compared to Home Depot/Lowes in the burbs.



inkslinger said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/11707-reactor-build.html
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/12331-survey-external-co2-reactor-users.html
> 
> I like GLA Diffuser my self.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

It work OK for my 55g tank but now I have is 110g tank 
So I might make another but bigger size DIA maybe 3-6 inches x 24
or stick to something I can get parts from like Home Depot or Lowes


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## Hannothan (Dec 26, 2010)

sundragon said:


> I'm piecing out a 57 and I have a eheim 2028 for filtering - GLA has the Atomic one it's about $40 - They have been on back order for a while, and I've seen the knock off Up aqua CO2 Atomizer for $30 on [Ebay Link Removed]
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a recommendation? I am currently using a glass diffuser and I would rather use something that's a bit more sophisticated on the new tank.
> I would go with DIY - does anyone have plans for one which has a clear cylinder - I like to see if it needs cleaning without taking it apart


I have both the GLA inline diffuser and the Up Aqua. I can tell you, the GLA one just fits together better. The Up Aqua one I eventually had to cave and use hose clamps. In terms of operation, they both work the same. I could have just gotten a poorly put together Up Aqua diffuser as well.

Currently building a rex style reactor to replace the Up Aqua diffuser. Sick of the soda pop fizz look. We'll see how it works.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

I really appreciate your feedback!

I purchased the GLA diffuser - The difference wasn't enough to buy the cheaper one and deal with issues. Plus GLA has been great support.

I wanted to know how it can be so small and still diffuse CO2 when compared to the DIY reactors that seem to be so large. 

They explained - It has an atomizer inside which causes the CO2 to diffuse into small bubbles - it then shoots them into the tank, and some people don't like that. The DIY reactors just shoot CO2 directly into the reactor and it tumbles around - which is why the reactor needs to be so large. It doesn't shoot bubbles into the tank, but the trade off is that it uses more CO2. 

I want to try it out as I'm also plumbing the heater inline and space can be an issue under the tank.


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## mcubed45 (Jun 30, 2010)

sundragon said:


> They explained - It has an atomizer inside which causes the CO2 to diffuse into small bubbles - it then shoots them into the tank, and some people don't like that. The DIY reactors just shoot CO2 directly into the reactor and it tumbles around - which is why the reactor needs to be so large. It doesn't shoot bubbles into the tank, but the trade off is that it uses more CO2.


Reactors are more efficient than diffusers and waste less CO2. All of the CO2 gets dissolved. That's why there are no bubbles. Bubbles means some gas will float to the surface and leave the tank. It isn't possible for a diffuser to be as efficient as a reactor.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Le sigh... Conflicting information makes this hobby such a pain  So hard to wade through all the information without clear benchmarks and science to make this clear - It's all opinions, people's experience, and marketing. You hear contradicting things back to back.

I appreciate what your saying - It makes sense but I will trust GLA's advice and stick with the reactor and try it out - I don't mind the micro bubbles and currently my glass CO2 reactor uses 1bps to keep tank's drop checker in the green.



mcubed45 said:


> Reactors are more efficient than diffusers and waste less CO2. All of the CO2 gets dissolved. That's why there are no bubbles. Bubbles means some gas will float to the surface and leave the tank. It isn't possible for a diffuser to be as efficient as a reactor.


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## mcubed45 (Jun 30, 2010)

sundragon said:


> Le sigh... Conflicting information makes this hobby such a pain  So hard to wade through all the information without clear benchmarks and science to make this clear - It's all opinions, people's experience, and marketing. You hear contradicting things back to back.
> 
> I appreciate what your saying - It makes sense but I will trust GLA's advice and stick with the reactor and try it out - I don't mind the micro bubbles and currently my glass CO2 reactor uses 1bps to keep tank's drop checker in the green.


oh GLA admitted that it doesn't compare to a reactor in terms of efficiency. it's simply not possible for a diffuser to be more efficient than a reactor. their newer diffusers are just an improvement over regular glass/ceramic diffusers.

it's important to realize that bubble count tells you very little about how much co2 you're actually using. bubble counters do not take into account pressure or temperature. both significantly affect the volume of a gas. (i.e. 1 bubble at 30psi contains MUCH more CO2 than 1 bubble at 10psi).

basically:
if you want the most efficient diffusion and/or don't like bubbles, get a reactor

if you want bubbles or don't have a canister filter, diffusers are the next best thing.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

The information I got was the exact opposite 

This is an inline diffuser, not a glass diffuser that sits in the tank. It will diffuse CO2 (tiny bubbles) as the water leaves the Eheim. There should be very little if any bubbles that make it (based on the bubbling on my existing glass diffuser). I am not an expert on this so I will differ to the experts - even if I'm getting two conflicting bits of info 

I appreciate the detailed explanation - I don't mind the bubbles- the ones from my current diffuser are so tiny that they are barely visible when they reach the top of the tank - the eheim is about 3 feet away from the lily pipe - They shouldn't be much larger so I don't expect the bubbles to be distracting - I do want a good diffusion of CO2  



mcubed45 said:


> basically:
> if you want the most efficient diffusion and/or don't like bubbles, get a reactor
> 
> if you want bubbles or don't have a canister filter, diffusers are the next best thing.


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## SuperWen (Mar 24, 2011)

No offense,
IMO GLA doesn't make any atomic or inline diffuser. Those diffuser are Intense brand, made in china/taiwan. UP inline diffuser also made by Intense, and they marked their product on its suction cup. Look at UP or GLA diffuser suction, it has same marks


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## mcubed45 (Jun 30, 2010)

sundragon said:


> The information I got was the exact opposite
> 
> This is an inline diffuser, not a glass diffuser that sits in the tank. It will diffuse CO2 (tiny bubbles) as the water leaves the Eheim. There should be very little if any bubbles that make it (based on the bubbling on my existing glass diffuser). I am not an expert on this so I will differ to the experts - even if I'm getting two conflicting bits of info
> 
> I appreciate the detailed explanation - I don't mind the bubbles- the ones from my current diffuser are so tiny that they are barely visible when they reach the top of the tank - the eheim is about 3 feet away from the lily pipe - They shouldn't be much larger so I don't expect the bubbles to be distracting - I do want a good diffusion of CO2


Well of course they told you the opposite. They don't sell reactors. Why would they tell you NOT to buy their product and to go make a reactor for $5 out of PVC?

Their new diffusers do still give very good diffusion. Reactors just give better diffusion. Sorry GLA wasn't completely straight with you. Search on here or feel free to ask the more senior members. They'll tell you the same. Plus the people on here aren't trying to make a sale. 




SuperWen said:


> No offense,
> IMO GLA doesn't make any atomic or inline diffuser. Those diffuser are Intense brand, made in china/taiwan. UP inline diffuser also made by Intense, and they marked their product on its suction cup. Look at UP or GLA diffuser suction, it has same marks


The stone is different colored!!! It's different!!


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## SuperWen (Mar 24, 2011)

mcubed45 said:


> The stone is different colored!!! It's different!!


Have you ever compare the marks on suction between UP and GLA inline diffuser?

I could be wrong, but FYI last year someone from GLA emailed me asking about Intense Inline Diffuser supplier


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## sajata (Aug 21, 2009)

I have a gla inline on the output side of a rena xp4. I see no bubbles on the outflow or in the tank. The in tank diffuser, i have, does creat a storm of very fine mist. 

P.s. VW makes the Jetta and the buggati veyron...

Sent from my DROIDX


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Okay - okay  You guys make a good point -

The GLA diffuser is arriving on Wednesday - I'll post images for review. I don't have the parts for the new setup so I may have to wait till I do before I can post a review. I'll be seeding the new canister filter for a week or two - on the old tank - before I setup the new tank - in order to have a good transfer of biological bacteria.

I'm surprised there are bubbles - I can't see the ones coming from my glass diffuser - maybe the ceramic/glass diffuser in the GLA unit is not as fine? I don't mind fine bubble mist as long as it's not a mess, and the fish don't look like they are swimming in 7-Up 

Please expect more NUB questions from me in the immediate future as this is for my third tank, not including my first in 4th grade, haha...


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## SuperWen (Mar 24, 2011)

My intense inline diffuser:










VIDEO


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks man - That is totally acceptable - as long as the plants are growing well and the fish aren't choking 



SuperWen said:


> My intense inline diffuser:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## larams67 (Jan 24, 2006)

If you have your diffuser right next to the output. That isn't enough time to dissolve. I think all you have to do to avoid the 7up look is extent the output tubing after the diffuser.

Another thing diffuser has going for it is size. I don't mind a little less efficiency if I don't have to have a bazooka under my cabinet. Plenty of reports to the contrary anyway. Lot's of people claim to have reduced their co2 input after switching to one of these inline diffusers.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

You hit on two points that I think are important:
1. The diffuser will be a few feet away from the exhaust end.
2. I didn't know how large of a reactor to build - This is my first time - All the plans have been for large ones - I assume to allow enough water to bat around the bio balls and flow over the CO2 to dissolve it properly. I would have to plumb an inline heater and a 2 foot long reactor before I can run the line into the tank - This becomes a bit precarious - Can someone please post pictures and a plan on how they've done this successfully without air bubbles, and an adequate flow?



larams67 said:


> Lot's of people claim to have reduced their co2 input after switching to one of these inline diffusers.


GLA said I won't be pumping as much CO2 into the diffuser. Again I understand they would want to make a sale - I question how smart it would be to make a sale and lose a customer forever because of misleading information? 

All of that being said I'm not trying to start a flame war - I respect that you guys have more experience than I do and I would like to learn more. I'll post my results with pics and a video once I get this rig up and running.



larams67 said:


> If you have your diffuser right next to the output. That isn't enough time to dissolve. I think all you have to do to avoid the 7up look is extent the output tubing after the diffuser.
> 
> Another thing diffuser has going for it is size. I don't mind a little less efficiency if I don't have to have a bazooka under my cabinet. Plenty of reports to the contrary anyway. Lot's of people claim to have reduced their co2 input after switching to one of these inline diffusers.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

I appreciate the info - I understood they don't make the diffuser themselves - I looked up Intense CO2 Diffuser and I found another site selling the same GLA models - It's considerably cheaper - GLA was great support when I had questions - does anyone have any experience with these guys?

http://theshrimplab.com/store/?p=276




SuperWen said:


> No offense,
> IMO GLA doesn't make any atomic or inline diffuser. Those diffuser are Intense brand, made in china/taiwan. UP inline diffuser also made by Intense, and they marked their product on its suction cup. Look at UP or GLA diffuser suction, it has same marks


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## larams67 (Jan 24, 2006)

I just bought the atomic bubble counter from them 2 days ago. Don't know much other than my order was shipped the next day. So far it's a thumbs up but we will see.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Orlando from GLA is usually on the boards alot but has been busy moving his shop for the last few weeks. Speaking for him, I can assure you that if he says they are slightly different and better quality, then they are. He has a great reputation at stake and wouldnt sacrifice it on a few sales. There is another thread on here about the diffuser but I cant seem to find the link. Ill go back and look for you and edit this post.

Here is the link. As you'll see, ONE person seems to think they arent quality without ever claiming to own one or to any research on it, just trying to pointlessly defend their dignity and supposed intelligence.....http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/123561-green-leaf-aquariums-new-co2-diffuser-21.html


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for the review - He's the guy that's been great with my questions thus far.



chad320 said:


> Orlando from GLA is usually on the boards alot but has been busy moving his shop for the last few weeks. Speaking for him, I can assure you that if he says they are slightly different and better quality, then they are. He has a great reputation at stake and wouldnt sacrifice it on a few sales. There is another thread on here about the diffuser but I cant seem to find the link. Ill go back and look for you and edit this post.


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

If you want a reactor but aren't interested in DYI like me, you should consider this one. I've been using it for a few weeks now and I'm quite impressed. It dissolves bubbles completely.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for the info  I saw that one right after I placed the order with GLA - I'll try it out since it's going to be here tomorrow. 

They need to advertise the barb/hose sizes online - I looked it up and couldn't find it - I see you've got it posted in your thread.

Cheers!



TLE041 said:


> If you want a reactor but aren't interested in DYI like me, you should consider this one. I've been using it for a few weeks now and I'm quite impressed. It dissolves bubbles completely.


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

sundragon said:


> They need to advertise the barb/hose sizes online - I looked it up and couldn't find it - I see you've got it posted in your thread.


I totally agree they should! The small size (that I have) is for 15mm tubing. With hot water and lots of willpower, I did manage to get 13mm tubing onto it.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

The GLA diffuser has "Engineered by Naito Precision Inc" in the mount and suction cups. 

A Google search shows the company is located in Hong Kong.



SuperWen said:


> No offense,
> IMO GLA doesn't make any atomic or inline diffuser. Those diffuser are Intense brand, made in china/taiwan. UP inline diffuser also made by Intense, and they marked their product on its suction cup. Look at UP or GLA diffuser suction, it has same marks


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Got here late today - It's 4.25" by 2" - tiny by comparison to the 24" reactors - it weighs almost nothing - I will splice it into the line leading out of the Eheim a few inches above the filter so it has a long path before the water enters the tank. When the tank is up and running I'll post a video/images of the output. I don't think the mount is necessary as there's nothing to suction it to.


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## SuperWen (Mar 24, 2011)

sundragon said:


> The GLA diffuser has "Engineered by Naito Precision Inc" in the mount and suction cups.
> 
> A Google search shows the company is located in Hong Kong.


If you have UP or INTENSE inline diffuser, you can see they have that marks too. I have both and yes they have same marks with GLA's 

*Intense CO2 & O2 diffusers:*
























_source_

*UP diffuser:*
















_source_


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

I guess I'm confused by what you're trying to point out... :confused1:

It's not Intense as you mentioned earlier in the post, it's Naito. I am assuming that you were trying to point out that Naito produces it for Intense, UP, and GLA... Ok - many manufacturers sell their products through distrbutors such as GLA. GLA also sells Azoo substrate.

I did see the images and cool video of the exhaust from the diffuser.



SuperWen said:


> If you have UP or INTENSE inline diffuser, you can see they have that marks too. I have both and yes they have same marks with GLA's


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## SuperWen (Mar 24, 2011)

sundragon said:


> I guess I'm confused by what you're trying to point out... :confused1:
> 
> It's not Intense as you mentioned earlier in the post, it's Naito. I am assuming that you were trying to point out that Naito produces it for Intense, UP, and GLA... Ok - many manufacturers sell their products through distrbutors such as GLA. GLA also sells Azoo substrate.
> 
> I did see the images and cool video of the exhaust from the diffuser.


Sorry for confusing you, but yes you've got my point.
It's because my bad english, it takes a half hour for me to reply one post with english


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## genetao (Jun 25, 2008)

So Sundragon, What were the final results of the inline diffuser?


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## mustang_1966289 (Nov 5, 2011)

Sundragon, second the question.....how has the inline worked out? Seriously considerin gone of these because like many, I don't want the hassle of the sewer pipe under the stand but was at one time resigned to the need. Thoughts? I would think by the pictures of the bubble cloud I have seen, by putting this several feet from the outlet, you would get much more gas absorbtion.

Cheers,

AC


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## dewalltheway (Jan 19, 2005)

Wow! Read through this and hit the second page hoping to see a video and pics because I am looking at buying one of these and it was dropped! I really wish he would have followed through with posting their results.

Does anyone else have any experience with one of these Atomic inline diffusers and have any good points or bad points??


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## Naekuh (Oct 19, 2011)

dewalltheway said:


> or bad points??


if it should ever leak... on a canister.. = big big big trouble...


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

I've been using this Atomic Diffuser with my Eheim 2262 for a couple of months now for my 110g tank, I had to run my low pressure at 45psi and the bubble count is fast to fast to count , My DC stays green so it's working . But not happy, lots of bubble does float to the surface . I'm thinking on getting a reactor from aquariumplants.com 

http://www.aquariumplants.com/CarbonDoser_EXT5000_External_Reactor_5000_p/ext5000.htm

I like the idea of getting 100% diffusion with out any bubbles and maybe I could work my bubble count down so I can read it.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Sorry for the long delay*

Grad School and work took over my life and the new tank took a back seat. I'm now finding the time to finish the project. I just ordered some equipment and I'm about to order the lights and substrate for the 57 gallon rimless that will replace my 30 gallon tall.

I'll be seeding the new filter once I get it set up for two weeks on the old tank. I'll then plumb the inline diffuser and post pictures.

Now decisions on what kind of lights to purchase for the planted tank 36" and what substrate to buy. I don't have the luxury of setting up two tanks and waiting for the one to cycle - I'll be doing the setup and swap in 24 hours. Any advice will be appreciated. :hihi:


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Update*

Update: I'm going to post my tank swap update in a day when I get the images sorted, etc.

Tank is up and running. The CO2 is going at 2bps currently. I don't have any bubbles in my exhaust flow. The CO2 completely dissolved. 

I also have a longer output with an inline heater for my exhaust which probably helps it get disolved.

If open up the regulator to a steady flow of CO2 I can see tiny, almost particulate, bubbles in the exhaust flow. 

Does anyone have an estimated bps to get a green drop check for a 57 gallon tank?

Currently 2bps is giving me a blue green drop checker.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Let me know if you want a video. I've upped the bps to 3 to see if the drop checker changes to a brighter green.


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## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

mcubed45 said:


> oh GLA admitted that it doesn't compare to a reactor in terms of efficiency. it's simply not possible for a diffuser to be more efficient than a reactor. their newer diffusers are just an improvement over regular glass/ceramic diffusers.


I am not entirely convinced that just because a reactor doesn't create bubbles that it is automatically the best solution for all co2 setups. I think what people forget is that the dissolving of the co2 is NOT the only part of the equation, you also have to consider how that co2 is being distributed. 

It seems that there must be SOME value in direct co2 bubbles being distributed through the tank, versus a reactor-style diffusion method that prevents such a thing from happening. I mean, last time I checked, people like Amano still use ceramic diffusers and atomizers. Why aren't they using a reactor? 

Honest question, it'd be interesting if some actual science was done on this rather than just people opining on products they've invested in.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Well I mounted my older plastic drop checker across the tank near the filter intake and upped it to ~3bps (27 bubbles/10 seconds) and it's green now. 

Respectfully - I've never used a bazooka reactor and I don't want to chance that I'd build a leaky unit as I'm in an apartment and it would be a disaster with 57 gallons...

I can say that 3bps with this unit makes both drop checkers, 36" apart, green. I guess that's efficient enough for me. I still don't see any bubbles or fizzy particles coming from the exhaust.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Updates...*

*Just a quick update.*

New tank and all so I've been trying to fine tune CO2, lights, etc. I had an interesting reaction. I was used to using 2 bps with the in tank diffuser on my 30 gallon. I started with 2.5bps using the Atomic Inline as a baseline.

What I found out:

*Bad News*
at 2bps the diffuser is gassing my angels and making them hide. I'm going to have to dial it back to 1-2 bps in hope they will come out of it.

*Good News*
Regarding efficiency - a 57 gallon tank with an inline diffuser is getting over 30ppm CO2 with 2bps. Based on the reaction of the fish, moving the CO2 drop checker to another side of the tank it's light green/yellow, and my pH/KH calculations indicate it's ~ 37ppm CO2.
I used Rex Grigg's chart for the calculation.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

ktownhero said:


> I mean, last time I checked, people like Amano still use ceramic diffusers and atomizers. Why aren't they using a reactor?


I believe he still uses them because they look artful, and the dude's an artist. Him or his company designed them to look good in a tank, so he uses them in the tanks. I would also assume that he uses them because he sells them, and it wouldn't look too good for an aquascape company to be using a product that they don't sell.

We also don't need to prove that reactors work better, because logic tells us they do. Visible bubbles going to the surface, which is a natural part of any in tank diffuser, means that those bubbles aren't being dissolved into the water column, wasting Co2. Bubbles don't escape from a properly set up reactor, so there is 100% dissolution into the water column.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

samamorgan said:


> I believe he still uses them because they look artful, and the dude's an artist. Him or his company designed them to look good in a tank, so he uses them in the tanks. I would also assume that he uses them because he sells them, and it wouldn't look too good for an aquascape company to be using a product that they don't sell.
> 
> We also don't need to prove that reactors work better, because logic tells us they do. Visible bubbles going to the surface, which is a natural part of any in tank diffuser, means that those bubbles aren't being dissolved into the water column, wasting Co2. Bubbles don't escape from a properly set up reactor, so there is 100% dissolution into the water column.


It's not about who's diffuser/reactor is the baddest. 

Agreed - if you see no bubbles - it's fully diffused. 

There was mention that *inline* diffusers aren't as efficient. 

That's where I disagree - based on first hand experience - I have no bubbles either, it's fully dissolved when it exits the output.

The other point is that 100% efficiency isn't required to make beautiful planted tank. See Amano and Oliver Knott for example.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

sundragon said:


> The other point is that 100% efficiency isn't required to make beautiful planted tank. See Amano and Oliver Knott for example.


That is correct and I would just like to add that a needle wheel pump and a venturi works extremely well also but doesn't dissolve CO2 100% either. 



samamorgan said:


> I believe he still uses them because they look artful, and the dude's an artist. Him or his company designed them to look good in a tank, so he uses them in the tanks. I would also assume that he uses them because he sells them, and it wouldn't look too good for an aquascape company to be using a product that they don't sell.


Takashi Amano is a business man. That is the only reason he doesn't use a reactor. Producing, marketing and selling "his" products is what he is about, it's not a bad thing mind you, I think it is great that he does that.

Some of his products work very well while others fall short. It is all about selling the "Natural" aquarium system as ADA and that is fine with me. He sell his merchandise to make money, that includes his "glassware". Again nothing wrong with that.

Some people on this forum are simply planted tank farmers. They grow plants to simply grow plants in their tanks with little to no scape. Many are artistically challenged but somehow manage to grow plants very well while some are so called "artist" and can't grow the easiest plants available.

Amano markets everything he sells as a "Natural System" which mimics nature and therefore looks beautiful. Some call it art, some call it nature in a box while others drool all over themselves. In any event he does what he does extremely well. I believe there are very few people, if any, that can rival his style/personality and his ability to translate what he does so easily which almost always looks incredible.

Dan


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

samamorgan said:


> We also don't need to prove that reactors work better, because logic tells us they do. Visible bubbles going to the surface, which is a natural part of any in tank diffuser, means that those bubbles aren't being dissolved into the water column, wasting Co2. Bubbles don't escape from a properly set up reactor, so there is 100% dissolution into the water column.


Well, that would mean that reactors work more _efficiently_, i.e. they spend less CO2 from the bottle to achieve the same levels of CO2 in the water. "More efficiently" is, of course, "better", no argument here. 

However, is you only measure "better" in terms of the final result, then good diffusers work as well as reactors. They just are a bit more expensive in terms of the amount of gas spent to achieve that result.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I just got my Atomic Inline diffuser and I have to say I am pretty happy about it. I still get some bubbles but a fraction of what I did with a glass diffuser. It takes up a fraction of room compared to a reactor, which was my first choice, but didn't fit.


I do want to agree with everyone that something being less efficient does not make it worse. Most of us can afford to waste some CO2. Diffusion of CO2 in the 100% range is far less important than good CO2 distribution, IMO, unless you are using something so bad that you can't reach the CO2 levels you are striving for.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

AndreyT said:


> Well, that would mean that reactors work more _efficiently_, i.e. they spend less CO2 from the bottle to achieve the same levels of CO2 in the water. "More efficiently" is, of course, "better", no argument here.
> 
> However, is you only measure "better" in terms of the final result, then good diffusers work as well as reactors. They just are a bit more expensive in terms of the amount of gas spent to achieve that result.


If my car gets 30 mpg and your car gets 15 mpg and i still beat you in handling, acceleration, braking, and overall looks then my car is better. Just because we left point A and got to point B at the same time doesn't make us equal, i spent less money, heard less road noise, and got hit on by more hot women on the way to point B than you did 

By the way I'm no advocate for reactors, because I only use diffusers myself. Just trying to make a point.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

samamorgan said:


> If my car gets 30 mpg and your car gets 15 mpg and i still beat you in handling, acceleration, braking, and overall looks then my car is better. Just because we left point A and got to point B at the same time doesn't make us equal, i spent less money, heard less road noise, and got hit on by more hot women on the way to point B than you did
> 
> By the way I'm no advocate for reactors, because I only use diffusers myself. Just trying to make a point.


Forgive me but I need to clarifiy something.


If you are referring to in-tank diffusers I am in total agreement with you regarding performance.

If you are referring to the inline diffuser that I'm using - then I respectfully disagree and point out my first hand experience with it. 

The inline diffuser I now own, and mentioned when I started this thread nearly a year ago, dissolves CO2 and produces no bubbles. Clear liquid coming out of the output, may I repeat. 1.5bps = ~24 ppm CO2

Please see the video - I can post another if you want.

"No bubbles" is the same rubric used to point out the efficiency of reactors. If it applies to reactors then it applies to this piece of equipment.

I asked the question initially to see if someone had first hand experience with it. 

Now that I'm using it I can vouch for it.

People repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true, it just sounds like railroading.

*gets off soap box*

Next tank, I'll try my time and money at building a reactor, but for $40 this was a great buy.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

sundragon said:


> Forgive me but I need to clarifiy something.
> 
> 
> If you are referring to in-tank diffusers I am in total agreement with you regarding performance.
> ...


I fully agree. I recently switched to an inline diffuser and it's working very well with little to no bubbles coming out of the outlet. I think that setting up a diffuser properly pretty much turns your outlet hose into a reactor. You are correct that i was talking about in-tank diffusers.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

samamorgan said:


> I fully agree. I recently switched to an inline diffuser and it's working very well with little to no bubbles coming out of the outlet. I think that setting up a diffuser properly pretty much turns your outlet hose into a reactor. You are correct that i was talking about in-tank diffusers.


Please disregard my rant  I need a beer to take the edge off finals


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

sundragon,

Would you, please, tell me what is the diameter of that transparent tubing you use in your setup? I have Fluval 306 (which, I believe, uses the same hose diameter as your 406) and I would like to switch to inline heater and inline CO2 diffuser. Apparently I'll have to use the same units you used, I just need to know which hose diameter works with all of these parts.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

5/8" Link

You can dip the end in hot water to make it pliable and then slip it onto the barbed end. 

I would highly recommend using metal hose clamps to secure the hoses.

The Eheim 2028 I was originally going to use was compatible with 5/8".


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks a lot. (Yes I saw the hose clamps in your video and I'm certainly planning to use them).


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## odie (Dec 29, 2009)

Ok just for clarification do you have the difuser going into the canister or the output of the canister? To me it would be better going into the canister to chop up any bubbles that might market thru. No?


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## odie (Dec 29, 2009)

Also I have the old style of inline diffuser that GLA had prior to these and I am looking at using that possibly.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

I was told to put it on the output. If CO2 bubbles get into the canister filter they can cause it to lock up. You don't want CO2 gas in a closed canister filter.

Currently:

Intake -> Cannister Filter -> Inline Atomic CO2 diffuser -> Hydor 300w Heater -> Output


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

odie said:


> Also I have the old style of inline diffuser that GLA had prior to these and I am looking at using that possibly.


not sure what that looks like or how it works.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I'm just about to do this same setup sundragon. just have a quick question. i thought there shouldn't be any bubbles going through the hydor so I was going to do canister -> hydor -> inline diffuser -> tank.

also, you said you had about 4-5 feet of tubing between the inline and the lily pipe right? Do you think all the bubbles will have diffused by the time it reaches the hydor? Thanks! I'm definitely gonna use your idea of having a longer tube regardless 

edit: realized my first paragraph didn't have a question in it lol, just wanted to know the reason you put the hydor after the inline diffuser and not before. btw love your angels


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## Lurch98 (Oct 7, 2011)

I think the more output pipe you can put after the diffuser before the water goes into the tank, the better for CO2 absorption. Similar to keeping the bubbles in a reactor until they disolve, you'd want to give them as much time as possible in your outflow pipe.

Not sure that having microbubbles go through your hydor would cause any problems, especially for most of us that hang them vertically. Very low chance of having any significant amount of CO2 build up in there I would think.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

cool. thanks


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

dasob85 said:


> I'm just about to do this same setup sundragon. just have a quick question. i thought there shouldn't be any bubbles going through the hydor so I was going to do canister -> hydor -> inline diffuser -> tank.


I have read that having the CO2 come before the Hydor is a bad idea. Internally the hydor is a tube of glass so the bubbles probably won't attach themselves and cause hot spots, etc. But it's your call.

Intake->Filter->Hydor->CO2->Outputdiffuser as well.



dasob85 said:


> also, you said you had about 4-5 feet of tubing between the inline and the lily pipe right? Do you think all the bubbles will have diffused by the time it reaches the hydor? Thanks! I'm definitely gonna use your idea of having a longer tube regardless


You can take a look at the video I placed on youtube for an idea of how I plumbed it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1yFEVe5Tk4

I can post another video of the plumbing if you want, just let me know.

I have a good ~4-5' of tubing between the CO2 and the Lily pipe output. But if you put the CO2 diffuser after the hydor, you'll be giving up a foot of space, unless you can be creative with space. Just remember it's harder to get the filter primed when you have a lot of tubing.



dasob85 said:


> edit: realized my first paragraph didn't have a question in it lol, just wanted to know the reason you put the hydor after the inline diffuser and not before. btw love your angels


Thanks! The two little monsters have just started doing the angelfish mating dance :fish:... My Apistos are doing the same... UGH! I wanted to add Discus or more angels  With two sets of territorial cichlid parents... ON the bright side there will be a lot of live food for the inhabitants, LOL


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Lurch98 said:


> I think the more output pipe you can put after the diffuser before the water goes into the tank, the better for CO2 absorption. Similar to keeping the bubbles in a reactor until they disolve, you'd want to give them as much time as possible in your outflow pipe.
> 
> Not sure that having microbubbles go through your hydor would cause any problems, especially for most of us that hang them vertically. Very low chance of having any significant amount of CO2 build up in there I would think.


I agree with you on both.

The longer the path, the more the CO2 dissolves.

My Hydor is nearly vertical, which is why I'm not worried.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

cool. good to know that you are not having problems with it! Mine is just on a really long office desk so i should have at least 4 feet of tubing between the co2 and the lily pipe. I dont have a cabinet that i can mount the hydor perfectly vertical so i'm going to be safe with the diffuser after the heater.

congrats on all the loving in your tank lol! a video of that would be fun


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

Just to clarify, you have absolutely no bubbles at 1-2 bps with 4-5 feet of tubing? I think I am just over 4 ft and can still see slight bubbles. drop checker is a pretty clear lime green. 

Also wanted to ask you how bad is the hissing of the atomizer?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

dasob85 said:


> Just to clarify, you have absolutely no bubbles at 1-2 bps with 4-5 feet of tubing? I think I am just over 4 ft and can still see slight bubbles. drop checker is a pretty clear lime green.
> 
> Also wanted to ask you how bad is the hissing of the atomizer?


No bubbles at 1.5 - 2 if I crank it up much higher, I will see tiny bubbles, but not 7up.

I have no hiss, the only sound is the slight hum from my filter. You may be leaking CO2. There is a soapy water method to see where that would come from.


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

dasob85 said:


> Just to clarify, you have absolutely no bubbles at 1-2 bps with 4-5 feet of tubing? I think I am just over 4 ft and can still see slight bubbles. drop checker is a pretty clear lime green.
> 
> Also wanted to ask you how bad is the hissing of the atomizer?


In my experience with this kind of atomizers, they are very quiet when they operate properly. But they begin to hiss (or even whistle quite noticeably) when the seal around the "airstone" fails and the gas begins to blow-by between the plastic casing and the "airstone". This also produces large bubbles, for obvious reasons.

So, are you sure you have no blow-by issues with your atomizer? Both the hissing and the fact that bubbles don't dissolve fully might be an indication of such a failure.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

I put soapy water by the bottom connector that hissed the loudest but didn't see any bubbling. granted it was kind of dark and i used a flashlight and my body was contorted in a very painful way. I didn't check the top connector or the plastic casing since the hissing was localized to the bottom connector. I'll give that a shot tonight. Thanks guys


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

dasob85 said:


> I put soapy water by the bottom connector that hissed the loudest but didn't see any bubbling. granted it was kind of dark and i used a flashlight and my body was contorted in a very painful way. I didn't check the top connector or the plastic casing since the hissing was localized to the bottom connector. I'll give that a shot tonight. Thanks guys


Bottom connector on the diffuser, right? It may be a leak from the connector or a tube that's not on fully and needs to be reseated. 

You can also spray with soapy water and see bubbles form, it may be easier.

Did you buy the diffuser from GLA directly? If it's bad - check with them about replacement.


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## mwuf15 (Aug 3, 2010)

what's a good pressure(low pressure) to use on these inline co2 diffusers?


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## BriDroid (Oct 7, 2012)

mwuf15 said:


> what's a good pressure(low pressure) to use on these inline co2 diffusers?


I have a GLA and a Up. 30 psi seems to be the recommended pressure, but I'm running mine at 40 psi with great results.


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## mwuf15 (Aug 3, 2010)

do you guys have a problem with the bubble rate when using the inline co2 diffuser? like I only get like 1 bubble every 2-3 sec with pressure at 40 and needle valve at more than half open? i heard that it was water seeping back in after the solenoid shut off the co2, so it is hard to push the co2 back out? what do you guys think?


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## BriDroid (Oct 7, 2012)

I have a Swagelok S series valve. I had to take the handle off and adjust it so that it would open more. I think it has to do with the pressure being more than a "normal" system.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

mwuf15 said:


> do you guys have a problem with the bubble rate when using the inline co2 diffuser? like I only get like 1 bubble every 2-3 sec with pressure at 40 and needle valve at more than half open? i heard that it was water seeping back in after the solenoid shut off the co2, so it is hard to push the co2 back out? what do you guys think?


My bubble rate drops when I'm nearly out of CO2, otherwise I don't have an issue with the bubble rate with my inline diffuser. 

The water does seep back in but when it turns on in the AM, the pressure pushes it out in a few minutes. The bubble rate is pretty fast at go and then stabilizes shortly there after.

Check to see if you may have a kink in the line. The unit itself may be defective. Did you buy it from GLA or Ebay. GLA does a great job when you're having issues or questions.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

mwuf15 said:


> what's a good pressure(low pressure) to use on these inline co2 diffusers?


Forgot to answer this - I wouldn't use DIY CO2 for this - only pressurized CO2 - I don't think it works with low pressure (DIY, if I understand correctly) CO2 systems.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

AndreyT said:


> In my experience with this kind of atomizers, they are very quiet when they operate properly. But they begin to hiss (or even whistle quite noticeably) when the seal around the "airstone" fails and the gas begins to blow-by between the plastic casing and the "airstone". This also produces large bubbles, for obvious reasons.
> 
> So, are you sure you have no blow-by issues with your atomizer? Both the hissing and the fact that bubbles don't dissolve fully might be an indication of such a failure.



Good point - there should be almost no bubbles when you first set it up. If you see large ones, then they are bypassing the diffuser stone.

From my experience, the bubbles gradually start to appear and get larger over time as the diffuser gets dirty. When the bubbles become visibly large, I swap the diffuser when I service the filter. I have two so it's an easy swap process. The clean one then sits till it needs to be swapped back again. This happens every 3-4 months, FWIW.


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## BriDroid (Oct 7, 2012)

sundragon said:


> Good point - there should be almost no bubbles when you first set it up. If you see large ones, then they are bypassing the diffuser stone.
> 
> From my experience, the bubbles gradually start to appear and get larger over time as the diffuser gets dirty. When the bubbles become visibly large, I swap the diffuser when I service the filter. I have two so it's an easy swap process. The clean one then sits till it needs to be swapped back again. This happens every 3-4 months, FWIW.


That is why I bought 2 of them :wink:


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

On that note, what is the best way to clean these? I cleaned mine using bleach but only soaked for 2 hours. It's hard to do overnight and keep the filter running unless I add some sort of connector. I may buy another one in the future, just wondering if bleach is the way to go. Some people say it's not ceramic and bleach isn't the best way, I also don't want to harm the plastic in the long run.

Mine may be fine, I know the bubbles are smaller than they were but it's hard to tell because I didn't have clear pipes before, plus it's now horizontal (only way I can make it fit) so the bubbles may be combining. Diffusion is fine but wondering if it could be better. Setup like over a year ago but switched up many things including tank size so can't go off bubble rate. I have a feeling it's slightly higher than it was on my 29 gallon, on my 20 long.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> On that note, what is the best way to clean these? I cleaned mine using bleach but only soaked for 2 hours. It's hard to do overnight and keep the filter running unless I add some sort of connector. I may buy another one in the future, just wondering if bleach is the way to go. Some people say it's not ceramic and bleach isn't the best way, I also don't want to harm the plastic in the long run.
> 
> Mine may be fine, I know the bubbles are smaller than they were but it's hard to tell because I didn't have clear pipes before, plus it's now horizontal (only way I can make it fit) so the bubbles may be combining. Diffusion is fine but wondering if it could be better. Setup like over a year ago but switched up many things including tank size so can't go off bubble rate. I have a feeling it's slightly higher than it was on my 29 gallon, on my 20 long.


I tried the GLA cleaner but it wasn't strong enough so I used H202 (Peroxide) and then bleach. The peroxide worked but the bleach really did the job. 

It takes longer than two hours - I did it overnight.

*EDIT:* Try the peroixide - it's a lot less caustic than bleach. If you need to use bleach, remember to soak the diffuser in a cup of water with a capful of Prime or dechlorinator to remove all traces of bleach, once it's cleaned up 

If you don't buy two you may need to hook up the filter for a day and then replace it. The expense of buying another is really worth the time and effort


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

sundragon said:


> I tried the GLA cleaner but it wasn't strong enough so I used H202 (Peroxide) and then bleach. The peroxide worked but the bleach really did the job.
> 
> It takes longer than two hours - I did it overnight.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I have had all sorts of diffusers and always used bleach but it's a lot easier to soak and especially dechlorinate over a period of time when it doesn't involve your filter.

On that note, I found I had a leak at my check valve. I had a small amount of silicone airline tubing I never replaced which worked fine on my glass diffuser but leaked. Bubbles are much smaller now, had a feeling because my CO2 only lasted a few months but I just had to downgrade to 5lber for a 20lb so I wasn't sure. Really glad I caught it.


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## BriDroid (Oct 7, 2012)

What ratio are you using when you use H2O2 and bleach?

Last time I cleaned mine I did 100% peroxide overnight. It seems to have worked.


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## hellyhans (Dec 22, 2016)

Hey guys.. quick question here from a longtime lurker, first time poster lol

I have a custom C02 system for about 2 years now... in a 5years old established 65G tank.

I just restarted my whole setup because my 2.5yold son gazzed my fish 2 months ago because I forgot to lock my needle valve adjuster....

So my question resides on my new Up Aqua Inline diffuser I got... 

It's supposed to run with about 35psi minimum... but can someone explain me this...

Does the needle valve lower my line pressure or does it just minimize flow? 
Because if I set my 2nd regulator to 40 psi and lower my needle valve, am I basically lowering my PSI in my line before it gets to the diffuser?

I don't have a bubble counter...
Thanks


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