# Getting CO2 into 120 gallon



## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

I think your sunsun is on its way out, I doubt the reactor had anything to do with it, saw your reactor vid and it looked like it was running fine.
Unless their was an air bubble that made its way to the impeller and ran dry for a while? Even then it should still work in theory with the magnetic motor.
one of the reasons I run two cans in larger tanks, failures will happen with equipment it's almost inevitable.
FYI,I ran my reactor and inline heater for years with my proII with no issues, I still have the reactor installed but haven't had co2 on in a while as I'll be redoing my tank soon.


----------



## PlantGate (Aug 23, 2016)

My 125g (72") has a sump and I was told by GLA that using their Atomic diffuser in my sump return section is ideal for distributing CO2 within the display tank. The return from the sump is divided into 4 loc-line nozzles distributed across the tank. So perhaps consider a sump.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

flutterbug said:


> I tried adding pressurized CO2 about 4 weeks ago. I tried reading every thread I could find that talked about getting CO2 dissolved in a planted tank so I know I need a reactor because the tank is too big for a diffuser. (It is a 120 gallon)


That's a myth that a tank that size is too big for a simple diffuser whether it be inline or just a ceramic disc in the tank. You just need it placed either below the return or on the opposite side depending on flow.


----------



## KGNickl (Feb 21, 2015)

I would guess your filter is about to die. You could replace it and leave things how they are and see what happens.

You could also branch your return line. So you have a 3 way splitter that does 3/4" IN to 3/4" OUT and 1/2" OUT. The 3/4" will then just be a tube to the next splitter that joins everything back together. Then the 1/2" will go to the reactor and then back to 2nd splitter that will join everything back together. Then you will have 3/4" out into the tank. That way you have 3/4" all the way through and just a small branch off off for the reactor. 

I say 1/2" for the ISTA Max mix because input on them is only 1/2" and I don't like using the 3/4" adapters as it just adds more failure points. I like putting the tube straight on the plastic pipes and using SS hose clamps lightly tightened down to hold things together.


----------



## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

From personal experience, I would be wary of any plastic item hooked up in line. I had a small disaster when an in line diffuser literally broke apart at a seam. Quite a mess and could have been worse if I wasn’t there. I have no experience with Mix Max, but I won’t go with anything plastic again.

At some point I will probably build a co2 reactor with quality parts (Burr740 75 Gallon Journal has lots of good information). In the meantime, I simply fed the co2 directly into the input of one of my Rena Filters (XP4). I actually have three Rena’s on the tank, and keep that one filled with only bio balls and course pads to keep the flow higher. My co2 comes down quickly, and the only issue is when the course pads start to get clogged, I do get some “burps” from time to time. Maybe not the optimum recommended method, but works for me.

Like I said, at some point here I am going to build a real reactor, but in the meantime there is no rush. As a side note, with a larger tank like yours, personally I would highly recommend multiple filters. I might overdo it with three, but I clean one about every two or three weeks, and between the three there is always good flow. And I’m not concerned with disturbing the bio field in the filter when cleaning, as the other two could easily handle the tank themselves. Another plus is that if you ever have a failure, like you are experiencing now, it’s not an emergency. You can take some time to think it through, and can order parts or a new filter without having to rush.

Good luck and I hope you get it worked out.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I would agree anytime you put something inline your increasing your odds of something happening. People tend to over thing these things. All you really need is an appropriate size ceramic diffuser in the tank, but like many things there are several ways you can go.


----------



## flutterbug (Jan 8, 2012)

houseofcards said:


> That's a myth that a tank that size is too big for a simple diffuser whether it be inline or just a ceramic disc in the tank. You just need it placed either below the return or on the opposite side depending on flow.


I am only going by the majority of advice I found that was given to others when they were asking for best CO2 diffusing into large tanks. 
Yesterday I tried feeding the CO2 tube into my Aquaclear and the CO2 was cranked up pretty high but it didn't seem to be enough since the ph controller was only getting .1 degree drop even after a few hours. Not that I am comparing it to a diffuser but it helped me see how much better my Mix Max had been dissolving the CO2 into the tank. I kept the CO2 at about 3 bps but at one point when I ran it uncountable I could get the drop checker on the opposite side of the tank yellow in an hour after lights on. I was playing around with it / experimenting since I don't have fish in there yet I want to get it all figured out now.



KGNickl said:


> I would guess your filter is about to die. You could replace it and leave things how they are and see what happens.
> 
> You could also branch your return line. So you have a 3 way splitter that does 3/4" IN to 3/4" OUT and 1/2" OUT. The 3/4" will then just be a tube to the next splitter that joins everything back together. Then the 1/2" will go to the reactor and then back to 2nd splitter that will join everything back together. Then you will have 3/4" out into the tank. That way you have 3/4" all the way through and just a small branch off off for the reactor.
> 
> I say 1/2" for the ISTA Max mix because input on them is only 1/2" and I don't like using the 3/4" adapters as it just adds more failure points. I like putting the tube straight on the plastic pipes and using SS hose clamps lightly tightened down to hold things together.


I am leaning toward the Sunsun on it's way out as well. I have seen a lot of people with them failing much sooner.
Trying to wrap my head around your splitter idea. I am very visual so I'm trying to draw it but I am having a hard time telling if I am getting it down on paper right. 



Greggz said:


> From personal experience, I would be wary of any plastic item hooked up in line. I had a small disaster when an in line diffuser literally broke apart at a seam. Quite a mess and could have been worse if I wasn’t there. I have no experience with Mix Max, but I won’t go with anything plastic again.
> 
> At some point I will probably build a co2 reactor with quality parts (Burr740 75 Gallon Journal has lots of good information). In the meantime, I simply fed the co2 directly into the input of one of my Rena Filters (XP4). I actually have three Rena’s on the tank, and keep that one filled with only bio balls and course pads to keep the flow higher. My co2 comes down quickly, and the only issue is when the course pads start to get clogged, I do get some “burps” from time to time. Maybe not the optimum recommended method, but works for me.
> 
> ...


Thanks I need the good luck. I haven't been having any with aquariums lately.  I am going to check out that journal. I had found a few old posts that were step by step but the pictures are missing from most of them. 
I was thinking of a sump but it would take time and right now I need a quick fix so I am thinking maybe get another canister going while I figure the sump thing out. I had looked into it a bit before but put it on the back burner since the tank was going well at the time.
So in the meantime if I ended up running 2 canisters should I put them so the intakes are centered and there is a return on each end? That is a set up I saw recommended somewhere and it seemed to make the most sense for flow reasons. However then won't I need to T the CO2 and have 2 reactors otherwise I would think one side wouldn't get much CO2. I was thinking of getting one of the smaller 370 gph Sunsuns for just the heater and CO2, ( I saw someone say the 403B has 5/8" tubing but I can't find confirmation of this anywhere) then keep the higher flow on the 526 gph but I don't know if that would not distribute enough CO2 since the lower flow would be running the CO2. Plus one side of the tank would have less flow. In the past the side of my tank with less flow would started getting Cyano Bacteria between the glass which I would liek to avoid if possible.



houseofcards said:


> I would agree anytime you put something inline your increasing your odds of something happening. People tend to over thing these things. All you really need is an appropriate size ceramic diffuser in the tank, but like many things there are several ways you can go.


Thanks, I am trying really hard not to overthink it but when stuff goes wrong I like to know why so I can try to avoid it from happening again! I am in general very indecisive so telling me I have options will make me think more. I like having it in my head that a diffuser isn't going to work because it helps me narrow things down.

Thanks all, I still would like to understand the degassing issue. I can't help but wonder if I have some other problems going on here aside form the Sunsun going. I have a Reg with preset pressure and it is always between 70 and 60 psi. When the valve is slightly past off it will run 3 bps to get it down to 1 bps you have to practically have it off.


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> That's a myth that a tank that size is too big for a simple diffuser whether it be inline or just a ceramic disc in the tank. You just need it placed either below the return or on the opposite side depending on flow.


I'm going to have to agree. roud:


----------



## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Have a 110G and tried em all. 

Have ended up with the same setup for my 110G and my 30G.

Used a unit similar to the Mix Max, another make but same principle. Only tried it for my smaller tank but found it somewhat noisy and to flow constricting.

Tried those spiral thingys and inline atomizer. Spiral thingys was useless for my 110G and waster loads of CO2. Same thing with the inline atomizer plus the entire tank was just a micro bubble mess.

So I have ended up with Aqua Medic CO2 reactors and before that an inline diffusor (not atomizer). Works really well for both my tanks.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

flutterbug said:


> I am only going by the majority of advice I found that was given to others when they were asking for best CO2 diffusing into large tanks.


Yes I realize that. It's the myth that becomes reality. 

Take a look at these tanks from the ADA Gallery. Click on the big tanks and tell me what you see? 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ADA+gallery+japan&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjF0M_L6drOAhUFExoKHT5PCNAQ_AUICCgB


----------



## flutterbug (Jan 8, 2012)

Jeff5614 said:


> I'm going to have to agree. roud:


 Is it also a myth that CO2 ruins impellers? In my mind I am thinking the CO2 being sucked into the intake and ran through the filter would cause filter problems? Or is it only a problem when the CO2 is fed directly into the filter?


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

flutterbug said:


> Is it also a myth that CO2 ruins impellers? In my mind I am thinking the CO2 being sucked into the intake and ran through the filter would cause filter problems? Or is it only a problem when the CO2 is fed directly into the filter?


I've had an Up Aqua atomizer on the intake of an Eheim 2075 for the last couple of years with no issues so, in my experience, all of the problems that everyone wants to tell you of with seals and impellers failing is a myth. Whenever one of those threads pop up I occasionally ask for anyone with firsthand knowledge of a filter failing from injecting CO2 into to speak up but no one does. So, maybe someone with firsthand knowledge of that happening will speak up now.

Of course, it is very possible to have a high enough bubble count that you get a lot of burping and CO2 collecting in the top of the filter. Like any reactor, you have to have enough flow to keep that from happening. With a canister filter I don't think that's going to damage anything, but it is going to cause a lot of aggravation with the noise and burping, etc.

As Houseofcards mentioned, a properly sized in tank diffuser works well. ADA does it that way on 6 ft tanks every day.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

If your canister filter can cope with co2 bubbles without extensive burping, that is a great way to do it. Unfortunately SunSuns cant, at least in my experience. 

I ran a Sera Flore 500 reactor inline with a SunSun 304B on a 75 gallon tank with pretty good results. Similar design to the Mix Max. The 1000 model would've been better since it is bigger. But the 500 was a real workhorse, so I think the basic design is solid.

The Sera also had a smaller size hose connection, so I used the smaller size hose on the filter's outflow. (heated one end of the hose in boiling water, then work it onto the filter connection) This did cut the flow down a lot.

Most canisters are "rated" without any media inside. The general rule of thumb is you can safely count on half the GPH of whatever a filter is rated at. Hydor Pro series are the only ones to my knowledge that are rated using media. What it says is what you get, in actual gph.

The 304B is rated at 526 gph. Mine ran about 270-300 gph using very lean media. With the smaller hose and the reactor connected, it ran about 120. :icon_eek: To compensate I used additional circulation pumps, and later on a second canister

Back to the original question, it sounds like the SunSun filter is crapping out on you. Restricting the flow on the out going line shouldnt have any negative effects.

If you decide to replace it, you may want to go with the slightly more expensive Aquatop version. My understanding it's like the difference between a name brand TV from Wal-mart compared to the same model from an electronics supplier. The Wal-mart versions are cheaper because they use cheaper internal parts.

Dont worry about off gassing CO2. Surface agitation is good for a number of reasons. Better to increase the rate of CO2 injection than to limit surface movement. And the more internal circulation you have, the better CO2 is going to dissolve. So flow and surface agitation = GOOD.

Ive never tried using just a diffuser on larger tanks, but I do trust the people here saying that say it works.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

You just need a larger size diffuser placed under the return of a canister filter that is working correctly or use powerhead. I had this one on several 4 foot tanks myself and my plants pearled like they were going to explode. 










You could buy them on amazon, ebay for around $20. The Rhinox also comes in smaller versions. The 5000 is the larger one. 

Not saying you can't go with a reactor as well, but I'm just saying that either will do the job.


----------



## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

flutterbug said:


> When the valve is slightly past off it will run 3 bps to get it down to 1 bps you have to practically have it off.


In my experience, 1 bps or 3 bps is very low for a 120G tank. I use a flow meter rather than a bubble counter, but when I did use a bubble counter, the flow was so high that it was a constant stream. Really too high to count bubbles at all. 

You may find you need to turn up the co2 a bit to get a good ph drop. And remember, co2 is cheap. I change my 10lb tank maybe once every 10 weeks. 

And as to surface agitation, I've always felt a healthy tank has plenty of it. And lots of flow too. Think of a babbling brook vs. a stagnant pond. Which seems healthier to you? And when you add fish, that surface agitation will provide plenty of oxygen which your fish will surely appreciate.


----------



## flutterbug (Jan 8, 2012)

Greggz said:


> In my experience, 1 bps or 3 bps is very low for a 120G tank. I use a flow meter rather than a bubble counter, but when I did use a bubble counter, the flow was so high that it was a constant stream. Really too high to count bubbles at all.
> 
> You may find you need to turn up the co2 a bit to get a good ph drop. And remember, co2 is cheap. I change my 10lb tank maybe once every 10 weeks.
> 
> And as to surface agitation, I've always felt a healthy tank has plenty of it. And lots of flow too. Think of a babbling brook vs. a stagnant pond. Which seems healthier to you? And when you add fish, that surface agitation will provide plenty of oxygen which your fish will surely appreciate.


Yes 3 bps doesn't get much of a ph drop and it was only turning my drop checker blue green, however If I looked at the various charts with my low Kh I don't need a huge drop for the plants I have. 
Discus planted tank with co2 pro system

CO2/pH/KH table - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/569001734154506460/

Fertiliser and CO2 for your aquarium. - Tropica Aquarium Plants
My Kh is about a 4, I think my liquid test kit is bad so I was using strips. It sometimes looked less than 40 ppm on the strips, so I am thinking it fluctuates between 3 and 4. I remember in the past when I checked it it would come up a 3 most times. I remember because of all the info about lower than 4 causing large Ph swings. My ph is 7.5 with no CO2. 
1 degree drop got the drop checker that perfect shade of green. I tried both 1 degree and .5 degree drops with the ph controller for .5 ph drop and I had the bubbles faster so it wouldn't take forever to get the CO2 levels up. I purposely went with low demand plants since I am planning on putting Discus in there. Plus when I add the fish I am going to starve the plants of CO2 and slowly add it in and watch the how the Discus react, so I didn't want the tank to get too used to high CO2 levels then end up with an algae problem once the fish are added and the CO2 is dialed down. If my Discus don't seem to do well I will probably set up a separate high tech tank. I may do that either way. Really I wanted the CO2 to get my tank nice quicker. The last 2 times I set up low tech it took a year before everything filled in. I want faster results and the CO2 definitely is making a difference. I jut remembered that I dropped the Ph down to 6.8. It seemed like a good safe spot for the Discus so I was trying to keep it there for now but then the filter went on the fritz. It is currently running off and on through out the day. My parst aren't due until the 30th but at this point I don't think they will fix it anyway. I can't make up my mind what filter to get. I don't like how Eheim doesn't have baskets except in the Pro 4 and I can't afford that right now. I feel like all the other options are so overpriced for what they are. I tried a smaller Rena Filstar that I found on clearance on the 40 gallon breeder I got and right upon hooking it up the impeller was making a horrible sound and nothing was happening. I did have it primed BTW. Some people will think this is stupid but I want a filter with black intake and output. I know you can upgrade the eheims to a black one but it adds $50 to the cost of the filter since they are around $25 each. I don't like the Fluval ribbed hoses and the C-series Marineland that cost more than what 3 of the Sunsuns costs is pretty much the same thing just like Aquatops. It has a 3 year warranty and my Sunsun lasted 2.5 years. So not good enough in my mind for the price of 3 1/4 Sunsuns...


----------



## flutterbug (Jan 8, 2012)

burr740 said:


> The 304B is rated at 526 gph. Mine ran about 270-300 gph using very lean media. With the smaller hose and the reactor connected, it ran about 120. :icon_eek: To compensate I used additional circulation pumps, and later on a second canister


I tried to measure the flow with the reactor and I got in the 200s. I wrote it down some where but don't have it in front of me. I had measured it back when I first got it and I am pretty sure it was up in the 300s.. I say tried to measure the flow because I was holding the 5 gallon bucket while it was filling and I am only 5' tall so it was rough trying to keep it the same height as my tank rim which is up to my chin 
:laugh2:

I could tell just by looking there was a huge difference in flow when I took the reactor off...

Sorry I have no idea why that weird emoji is at the top!? I can't get rid of it...


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

You will probably appreciate having a built in UV with Discus. People dont give SunSun UV much credit but I really liked mine. Of course having the flow cut way down made it more efficient by increasing exposure time. The skimmer is also a great feature.

That is why when it came time to replace it I went with the Aquatop cf500UV. Same filter, most parts will interchange, etc. The only difference is, it is <supposedly> made with better internal parts.

Amazon has them for $145, so right at 2x the SunSun

https://www.amazon.com/Aquatop-CF500UV-5-Stage-Canister-Filter/dp/B004GIXCI4


----------



## flutterbug (Jan 8, 2012)

houseofcards said:


> You just need a larger size diffuser placed under the return of a canister filter that is working correctly or use powerhead. I had this one on several 4 foot tanks myself and my plants pearled like they were going to explode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I am going to try one of these! Thanks for the help!


----------



## K1963158 (Aug 15, 2016)

@flutterbug......I've been following this thread because I'm setting up a 90 gallon tank and already fretting about how to diffuse CO2 and the tank is still empty!

Could you please get back to us and tell us what you think of that ceramic diffuser? I am planning to use my Eheim pro 350 to diffuse the CO2 but may switch to that setup later on. My only issue with that kind of diffuser is the look of all the bubbles floating around the tank.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

flutterbug said:


> I think I am going to try one of these! Thanks for the help!


I think you'll be happy with it. For 20 buck you don't have much too lose.



K1963158 said:


> @flutterbug My only issue with that kind of diffuser is the look of all the bubbles floating around the tank.


I've used ceramic diffusers on countless tanks I never really noticed the bubbles all around the tank. I'm currently using one right now on tiny 1.5G and other than the bubbles going up toward the surface from the diffuser I can hardly see any bubbles


----------



## flutterbug (Jan 8, 2012)

K1963158 said:


> @flutterbug......I've been following this thread because I'm setting up a 90 gallon tank and already fretting about how to diffuse CO2 and the tank is still empty!
> 
> Could you please get back to us and tell us what you think of that ceramic diffuser? I am planning to use my Eheim pro 350 to diffuse the CO2 but may switch to that setup later on. My only issue with that kind of diffuser is the look of all the bubbles floating around the tank.


Sure! I will update here once I get it going and my new filter is hooked up.


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> I would agree anytime you put something inline your increasing your odds of something happening. People tend to over thing these things. All you really need is an appropriate size ceramic diffuser in the tank, but like many things there are several ways you can go.


Hey House, this one is for you roud:. All the talk about glass diffusers just made me have to put mine back in the tank. ( Pardon the less than show worthy cell phone pic. It looks like I must have been moving as I took it. )


----------



## flutterbug (Jan 8, 2012)

I had mine set up from the day it arrived until 2 days ago. I don't know what happened, I forgot to even bother checking a drop checker with it. I had my ph controller running but it was right above the diffuser so it was probably shutting off too soon. Actually I know what happened now, I really didn't feel like moving my whole ph set up and co2 tank to the other side of the tank, and was procrastinating. It was hard to tell in such a short time. Yesterday my tank was finally cycled and I wanted to add the Discus back in, I hooked the reactor back up because having all that co2 going in the tank right where the Discus always hide made me nervous and having such limited experience with it doesn't help my confidence. I was running the reactor for a month so I feel more comfortable with it. I think it's good to have in case I find myself in a situation that I need it again.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Jeff5614 said:


> Hey House, this one is for you roud:. All the talk about glass diffusers just made me have to put mine back in the tank. ( Pardon the less than show worthy cell phone pic. It looks like I must have been moving as I took it. )


Nice! That is some great looking JF.


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> Nice! That is some great looking JF.


Thanks. I can't have an aquarium without it.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Jeff5614 said:


> Thanks. I can't have an aquarium without it.


Seeing your's makes me miss my 4-footer. Right now I only have my 1.5G Nano and a few grow out tanks. I have to really get something up that's big enough for fish, LOL.


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> Seeing your's makes me miss my 4-footer. Right now I only have my 1.5G Nano and a few grow out tanks. I have to really get something up that's big enough for fish, LOL.


Yes, you do. I and, I'm sure, a lot of others would love to see what you would come up with.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Jeff5614 said:


> Yes, you do. I and, I'm sure, a lot of others would love to see what you would come up with.


Thanks! I'm gonna get going on the 2 footer than move on from there :grin2:


----------

