# Fertilizing substrate



## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

I've never done it...


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## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

every couple of months. I don't have any heavy root feeders right now, so I've been slacking.


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## Gill Man (Feb 5, 2005)

I'm convinced that our fancy substrates wear out after about a year and should be supplemented even if certain species aren't known to be heavy root feeders. Aquatic plants are known to utilize both means, roots and leaves, to assimilate certain nutrients. I believe that it is yet another myth that stem plants as well as others, don't utilize their roots for anything more than adhering to the substrate. I got some flack for stating that Kasselmann lists Ammania gracilis as a heavy root feeder. It's a fact. Since that time, I've added a single Flourish root tab in the substrate within the grouping and the results have been vibrant color and healthy growth.

Since my Flora Base is over a year old and should be replaced according to the Red Sea, I've started supplementing it further. We hear much about how plants decline after having grown successfully for some time, probably while the substrate was still new. We should probably pay as much attention to our substrate once it becomes depleted as we do the water column, after all we are keeping a "closed system" that does not get replenished unless we manually intervene.

I say go for it. It's not expensive and it does no harm to fertilize the substrate as well.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

And again I will state that most commonly used root tabs contribute very little macro nutrients. In fact the most commonly used tab in the US is mostly calcium and sulfur with a decent amount of iron. So unless your "heavy root feeders" are lacking in one of the above three elements it's all in your mind.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Any plant will feed through the water column, so if you provide adequate nutrient's for the water column you should be fine.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

I agree. I grow Ammannia great with only water ferts. I have enver felt teh need to add ferts to it's roots. It would be near impossible to do anyway being that I have to pull it up and trim off 4" a week.


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## Gill Man (Feb 5, 2005)

The choice is yours. http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishTabs_faq.html

*Flourish Tabs™ Support*

*Q*: I'm using Flourite™as my only substrate, why should I use Flourish Tabs™?
*A*: While Flourite™is a rich source of iron and some minerals such as manganese, it is primarily a porous substrate/gravel base for the planted aquarium.Flourish Tabs™,while not truly necessary for successful plant growth, does supply a broader and more easily utilized source of minerals than does Flourite™alone.

*Q*: I am using Flourish. Do I need to use Flourish Tabs too?
*A*: As Flourish and Flourish Tabs are similar in function, we generally suggest using one or the other; however, in some situations a greater benfit can be derived from using both. Some plants take in more from their roots, and some take in more from their leaves, so using Flourish and Flourish Tabs addresses both needs. Also, if you are one to forget dosing, Flourish Tabs are an excellent solution as they are placed in the gravel and provide a time-released source of nutrition.

---end

Even though some people may clip the rooted bottom and replant, others plants may be trimmed at the top allowing for more bushy growth and a healthy root system. I'm doing a little of both, until I get to know how each plant grows in reaction to constant pruning, then I'll modify my technique for each plant accordingly. I still think the root systems of plants are being utterly ignored for the latest fad in planted aquarium keeping, the point of which should be to optimize plant growth both through their leaves as well as their roots.


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## ScottyDont (Mar 9, 2005)

i know this is gonna sound so dumb, but in my vegtable garden I buy cheap fish fillets and place them near the root system for better growth of my veggies, will this work in planted tank?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

ScottyDont said:


> i know this is gonna sound so dumb, but in my vegtable garden I buy cheap fish fillets and place them near the root system for better growth of my veggies, will this work in planted tank?


As long as you have no livestock in the tank and don't mind the smell.


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## freeflyer (Feb 3, 2005)

I know many people say their stuff grows great with just water column ferts, but I have seen great results and growth spurts when using flourish root tabs, so Rex can call me delusional too, but when I see consistant results then after adding tabs a huge growth spurt I do not think its a coincidence. I will add to that also that I try not to over fertilize and do not dose at the levels of EI as I only have medium light and medium co2 levels.


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## ScottyDont (Mar 9, 2005)

hmmm maybe I'll just get some flurish tabs...witch I know I have...but lost....


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## fishyface (Oct 7, 2004)

freeflyer said:


> I know many people say their stuff grows great with just water column ferts, but I have seen great results and growth spurts when using flourish root tabs, so Rex can call me delusional too, but when I see consistant results then after adding tabs a huge growth spurt I do not think its a coincidence. I will add to that also that I try not to over fertilize and do not dose at the levels of EI as I only have medium light and medium co2 levels.


i concur...


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## Aulonochromis (Jan 14, 2005)

I have a nymphaea pubescens that was growing small cupped leaves, it was growing but not thriving. I put a jobe's spike underneath it, and didn't notice any difference for about 2 weeks. Then BAM! within a few days it was throwing out leaves almost the size of my hand with beautiful coloration, picture perfect. I can only assume that it was the spike and it took the plant 2 weeks to start utilizing the spike.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Jobes spike is way different than a Flourish tab.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

If you do the substrate ferts, and you get positive results, nothing is wrong with that, but it also says you could add more to the water column if you wish. 

That will help all the plants.
I've grown many so called root feeders, with nothign but water column ferts to the point they are too much work to prune and simply out grow the tank, Crypts, Ammannia, you pick the plant. Swords? Forget it. They turn to Trees.

The Ammannia gets huge, stems about a dime's diameter. Do I want more than that? I suppose.

But adding it to the roots has not improved growth in any controlled experiment I did or have done to date. Still, adding ferts to the substrate does not hurt and maight help if you neglect the water column ferts(out forgetfulness or on purpose) it's finem, as long as the plant has some nutrient source and you do not run things too lean and at higher light.

Less light= more wiggle room for any routine.
If you want less work, heck, go non CO2 with low light.

No ferts dosing except fish food, a little SeaChem EQ weekly, top off for evaporation, maybe a little KNO3/KH2PO4 and K2SO4, depending on plants and their health/fish load etc.

If you use CO2, use it well, both Claus and myself mentioned this years ago with lower light tanks.

They are very stable at higher levels of CO2.

Less light=> less nutrient demand=> easier for the plants to use substrates for the main source of nutrients.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Nolan W. (Feb 9, 2005)

I believe the Jobe's spikes provide macro nutrients, and most roots tabs made for aquariums provide micro nutrients. There is a root tab that provides macro, it's called PlanTabbs, made by Aquarium Products.

PlanTabbs: 11-15-20
Jobe's Plant Food Spikes for Lush Ferns and Palms: 16-2-6

As you can see, PlanTabbs has much higher phosphate and potassium levels.


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## Aulonochromis (Jan 14, 2005)

Rex Grigg said:


> Jobes spike is way different than a Flourish tab.



Either way it is still a form of fertilizing the substrate isn't it?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Yes.

You folks want to avoid those jobes and Plant tabs, those have NH4/urea.

You pull one up replanting etc and you'll have GW, staghorn or hair algae rapidly. 

NH4 is not something anyone wants to add to the substrate/water column, fish supply plenty.

If they had NO3 only, then that would be fine.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Tom is right. You will get GW if you get too much Jobes in the WC. But they are great for fertilizing roots. Truth be told, I have only stuck them under a few crypts in the last few years as I haven't been keeping other root feeders such as swords.


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## Nolan W. (Feb 9, 2005)

The Jobe's for Lush Ferns and Palms is supposed to have little urea, according to http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_fertilizer_intro.htm I would be careful with any substrate fertilizer, as disturbing one can lead to a massive algae outbreak.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Nolan, do you come to the local SFBAAPS plant swaps?
If not, come!
Free weeds.

www.sfbaaps.com

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Aulonochromis (Jan 14, 2005)

Yeah it says on the package they contain urea, and I would definitely not want to get that in the water column, but they are dirt cheap, and I have had good luck so far. I only place them under root feeders that I don't plan to move anytime in the next few months. I plan to add some flourish tabs as well for traces.


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## cbl (Mar 6, 2005)

I've put root tabs in my fish tank before and have gotten excellent results. YMMV.


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## Hawkeye (Mar 22, 2005)

When I had plan gravel substrate I used a 13-4-5 plant stick I got at wal-Mart. I used them just form my sword plants and a few crypts. I had great plant growth without any algae problem but I did take precautions. Every time I would uproot and replant I would have a siphon hose ready to suck out any tabs that got loose in the water. Its been quit a while since I have used them but they do work.

Hawk


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## Not Mister Green (Feb 15, 2005)

the root tabs don't lend themselves to tank stability, IMO

how about just fertilizing the tank once? Encorperate enough slow release Fe, Ca, Mg, and K plus trace minerals in the substrate to last the plants a year or two. Alot cheaper and alot less work. We're talking ferts like rock dust, Azomite, vermiculite, greensand and oyster shell.

Are any root tabs OMRI (Organic Materials Review Institute) approved?


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## Not Mister Green (Feb 15, 2005)

Plenty of N and P will be available in the water column

mixed in with the bottom 1/3 layer of the tank substrate:

Laterite provides the Fe and K plus trace minerals. 

Vermiculite provides the K and Mg plus increases Cation Exchange 

Gypsum provides the S and Ca, plus trace minerals

check this out:

GYPSUM

(CaSO4)

Gypsum, as calcium sulfate is commonly known, is an invaluable material for watergarden use. It is a common mineral, with many uses, from being a major component in home and building construction to food additive (http://www.minerals.net/mineral/sulfates/gypsum/gypsum.htm and http://www.dietriot.com/fff/mcd/mcd.html ). 

Calcium sulfate is particularly useful in the watergarden because of its water clarification properties. As an electrolyte, calcium sulfate is useful in maintaining fish health, and is a listed ingredient in the product "POND SALT" sold by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (http://www.aquariumpharm.com/ ). Calcium sufate is used in municipal water supply treatment plants for water clarification, and has been proposed as a replacement for aluminum sulfate for this purpose because of concern over human consumption of aluminum (http://www.globalideasbank.org/BOV/BV-211.HTML). 

It is helpful for calcium sulfate to be dissolved before adding to your pond, in order to avoid clogging your fishes gills with the particles. For this reason, you should mix the gypsum with water, creating a slurry before adding to your biofilter. Rates of calcium sulfate application vary with water turbidity and PH. Don Steinback and Billy Higginbotham offer a method for determination of application rates based on test samples of water clearing rates. (http://agfacts.tamu.edu/D11/Calhoun/Mar/Recfish/Pondmgt


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