# I think CFL bulbs are bad for plant growth.



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Nope.

Brown algae is extremely common in most new tank starts, even unplanted.

Once things level out, as long as everything is in balance (CO2, light, ferts), it's less common a problem.

You running CO2 on this tank?


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

lauraleellbp said:


> Nope.
> 
> Brown algae is extremely common in most new tank starts, even unplanted.
> 
> ...


Yes, I am running CO2 in this tank. First, I was running 2x13 watt CFL with CO2, and then 2x15 watt with CO2, and was still getting brown diatoms. As soon as I upgraded to LED lights, the brown diatoms went away. I know that plant nutrients aren't an issue because I have a dirted tank. I had a 37 gallon fish only tank, where I was consistently getting brown diatoms, even though the tank was established for over a year. On my 37 gallon tank, I was using some marine land led lights just for viewing, but in that tank, as soon as I planted it with dirt, and upgraded the lights to T5 HO, the diatoms went away.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

How do you explain those that have been using CFLs for years and don't have diatoms? 

That would be like me eating strawberries then getting food poisoning and saying.... "I think Strawberries are bad for your health. Eat bananas. I never get sick when eating bananas".


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I have used cfl's exclusively. They worked great on my 40 gal heavily planted. I used three 100w equivalent bulbs with co2 and ei dosing and they grew like mad.


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## rballi (Mar 4, 2010)

Light is light. Plants do not care much for where it comes from as long as it is the right intensity and spectrum.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I have used CFL's for years and my tanks never had brown algae, or really any algae. 2x13 watt over a 5.5 and then a 6 gallon for almost 4 years and 3 different scapes.


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## rballi (Mar 4, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> Nope.
> 
> Brown algae is extremely common in most new tank starts, even unplanted.
> 
> ...



+1

The reason why you are thinking the LED's didn't cause brown algae is that the tank had matured further. Diatoms is almost always a cycling issue. Just requires a little patience and maybe some Ottos/shrimp.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> I have used CFL's for years and my tanks never had brown algae, or really any algae. 2x13 watt over a 5.5 and then a 6 gallon for almost 4 years and 3 different scapes.


No algae at all with 2 cfls on a 5.5? I'm guessing they are mounted horizontally thus reducing par/light intensity? If not, what's your secret? Whats your photo period?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

AGUILAR3 said:


> No algae at all with 2 cfls on a 5.5? I'm guessing they are mounted horizontally thus reducing par/light intensity? If not, what's your secret? Whats your photo period?


They were mounted horizontally and had very poor reflectors. I don't know why it didn't work but it just did. Here are some old journals, the first link is still going but I haven't updated it in forever, now LED though.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=198451
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=143598


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

AGUILAR3 said:


> How do you explain those that have been using CFLs for years and don't have diatoms?
> 
> That would be like me eating strawberries then getting food poisoning and saying.... "I think Strawberries are bad for your health. Eat bananas. I never get sick when eating bananas".


Not all bulbs are created equally. Your argument about strawberries is not good because they not all grown under the same soil. It is just my theory that not all CFL bulbs are the most efficient for growing plants. I have used 6500k bulbs, and how am I supposed to know how much of the blue and of the red spectrum my plants are receiving? There are so many different brands of bulbs, that it could be hard to know if some are the culprit of brown diatoms.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

rballi said:


> +1
> 
> The reason why you are thinking the LED's didn't cause brown algae is that the tank had matured further. Diatoms is almost always a cycling issue. Just requires a little patience and maybe some Ottos/shrimp.


Before I tore my 37 gallon tank, it was established and mature for 3 years, and it would always, and I mean always get brown diatoms. Based on my experience, I would say that brown diatoms either have something to do with the bulbs, or silicates in the water. I have read about people testing their water, and getting brown diatoms with very low silicates.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

I completely agree with you kidgrave, CFL are awful awful awful lights. I dare anyone to find a tank using CFL that has any type of lust plant growth.


I'll wait....


There no way CFL can grow something like a carpet of HC Cuba, impossible! It's not going to work with CFL, you will get a ton of algae and the tank will never be lust green in colour.


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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I completely agree with you kidgrave, CFL are awful awful awful lights. I dare anyone to find a tank using CFL that has any type of lust plant growth.
> 
> 
> I'll wait....
> ...


LoL.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

kidgrave said:


> Yes, I am running CO2 in this tank. First, I was running 2x13 watt CFL with CO2, and then 2x15 watt with CO2, and was still getting brown diatoms. As soon as I upgraded to LED lights, the brown diatoms went away.


Brown diatoms are not photosynthetic they eat debris in the water so the CFL bulbs didn't encourage their growth.

Also, they do not like bright light, so when you upgraded to the LEDs you likely caused them to travel into the substrate and out of view.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Zapins, thanks for your reply. I do believe the diatoms went to my substrate because it now looks dirty. Do you think silicates cause diatoms? What really causes them? 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Zapins said:


> Brown diatoms are not photosynthetic they eat debris in the water so the CFL bulbs didn't encourage their growth.
> 
> Also, they do not like bright light, so when you upgraded to the LEDs you likely caused them to travel into the substrate and out of view.


+1




lauraleellbp said:


> Nope.
> 
> Brown algae is extremely common in most new tank starts, even unplanted.
> 
> Once things level out, as long as everything is in balance (CO2, light, ferts), it's less common a problem.


And again...+1


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

zorfox said:


> +1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


= 2


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I completely agree with you kidgrave, CFL are awful awful awful lights. I dare anyone to find a tank using CFL that has any type of lust plant growth.
> 
> 
> I'll wait....
> ...



That is a very bold statement considering that there's plenty of people just in this discussion alone including myself that stated they never had issues with algae using cfl's as for growing carpets. I wholly disagree because I've done it.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5799010

Just one of them.

Another
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5587305


v3


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Keep searching, you might stump on a ADA 60P with CFL lights......


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Zapins said:


> Brown diatoms are not photosynthetic they eat debris in the water so the CFL bulbs didn't encourage their growth.
> 
> Also, they do not like bright light, so when you upgraded to the LEDs you likely caused them to travel into the substrate and out of view.


I think you are confusing that w/ bacteria...
Diatoms are photosynthetic:


> Planktonic diatoms in freshwater and marine environments typically exhibit a "boom and bust" (or "bloom and bust") lifestyle. When conditions in the upper mixed layer (nutrients and light) are favourable (e.g. at the start of spring) their competitive edge[16] allows them to quickly dominate phytoplankton communities ("boom" or "bloom"). As such they are often classed as opportunistic r-strategists (i.e. those organisms whose ecology is defined by a high growth rate, r).
> 
> When conditions turn unfavourable, usually upon depletion of nutrients, diatom cells typically increase in sinking rate and exit the upper mixed layer ("bust").


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

kidgrave said:


> Yes, I am running CO2 in this tank. First, I was running 2x13 watt CFL with CO2, and then 2x15 watt with CO2, and was still getting brown diatoms. As soon as I upgraded to LED lights, the brown diatoms went away. I know that plant nutrients aren't an issue because I have a dirted tank. I had a 37 gallon fish only tank, where I was consistently getting brown diatoms, even though the tank was established for over a year. On my 37 gallon tank, I was using some marine land led lights just for viewing, but in that tank, as soon as I planted it with dirt, and upgraded the lights to T5 HO, the diatoms went away.



dirt can "lock" nutrients.. Diatoms need "free floating" nutrients...

could be the better lighting allowed the plants to absorb more of this..

You have multiple changes that could create the same thing.. Adding dirt and "'better light" allowed for more efficient plant growth and removal of nutrients out of the water column. 

just guessing here.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Keep searching, you might stump on a ADA 60P with CFL lights......


I'm assuming you were being sarcastic originally......


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

kidgrave said:


> Zapins, thanks for your reply. I do believe the diatoms went to my substrate because it now looks dirty. Do you think silicates cause diatoms? What really causes them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


Start here:


> The use of silicon by diatoms is believed by many researchers to be the key to their ecological success. In a now classic study, Egge and Aksnes (1992)[19] found that diatom dominance of mesocosm communities was directly related to the availability of silicic acid — when concentrations were greater than 2 mmol m−3, they found that diatoms typically represented more than 70% of the phytoplankton community. Raven (1983)[20] noted that, relative to organic cell walls, silica frustules require less energy to synthesize (approximately 8% of a comparable organic wall), potentially a significant saving on the overall cell energy budget. Other researchers[21] have suggested that the biogenic silica in diatom cell walls acts as an effective pH buffering agent, facilitating the conversion of bicarbonate to dissolved CO2 (which is more readily assimilated). Notwithstanding the possible advantages conferred by silicon, diatoms typically have higher growth rates than other algae of a corresponding size.[16]
> Diatoms occur in virtually every environment that contains water. This includes not only oceans, seas, lakes and streams, but also soil.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatom



> There are two main sources that silicates come from. The first source explains why diatoms occur during the first weeks of aquarium keeping. The first source is sand. When you buy sand, there is generally a high concentration of silicates which can cause a bloom. After all of the silicates are consumed from the sand, the population of diatoms should stabilize, but this is not always the case. The second source of silicates is your source water. If the water that you use to top off and use for water changes has silicates in it, then the population of diatoms will have an unlimited and bountiful food source and may not stabilize.
> Even when using reverse osmosis and deionization, the filtered water may contain silicates. It doesn’t take very long for the silicates in your tap water to clog the membrane and allow more silicates through. So if you get a diatom bloom in a mature tank or if your diatom bloom does not go away, then you will need to check (or change) your source water and source water filters. I should also mention that certain types of sand that are not made for aquariums can have very high levels of silicates and silicic acid which will cause a never ending diatom bloom. These sands should be avoided unless you are sure that they are aquarium safe.


http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=60144


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## CluelessAquarist (Apr 5, 2014)

loved that everyone missed flying hell fish's sarcasm. By the way, nice tank. Silly thread here though.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

jeffkrol said:


> I think you are confusing that w/ bacteria...
> Diatoms are photosynthetic:


Not all diatoms are photosynthetic. The brown diatoms people get are not a photosynthetic species. They will grow in pitch darkness.


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

2 65w 6500k cfls


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Zapins said:


> Not all diatoms are photosynthetic. The brown diatoms people get are not a photosynthetic species. They will grow in pitch darkness.


seems I'm still in "old school" mode:




> Diatoms (class Bacillariophyta) are a type of mainly aquatic, photosynthetic algae. Similar to many other algae, they can live as unicellular organisms, colonial, or filamentous. Unlike most algae, though, they have a solid shells made of silica. Because of such shells, diatoms have major economic importance in industry while also having a major role in biological and chemical processes.
> Almost all of the extant and extinct species of Bacillariophyta are aquatic. They are found in marine and freshwater ecosystems as well as brackish water (Bold, 1978). Diatoms can also be found in terrestrial environments in the soil where moisture is at least periodic (Bold, 1978). They can be found all around the world; from the tropics to the arctic zones (Tiffany, 1968). In water, diatoms live attached to rocks, plants, or be free floating but they are best known for being part of the drifting planktonic mass (Garrison, 1997).
> * Of the 200 genera and 5000 species known, all are eukaryotic and photosynthetic (Alexopoulos, 1967).* They contain chlorplasts that have been found to have numerous photosynthetic pigments giving the chloroplasts a typically golden brown color (Garrison, 1997) Photosynthetic pigments include chlorophylls a and c (green), as well as B-carotene (yellow), fucoxanthin (brown), and small amounts of diatoxanthin, diadinoxanthin, and other carotenoids (Bold, 1978). Because of the photosynthetic nature of diatoms, they have traditionally been placed in the plant kingdom, but many scientists today place them in the kingdom Protista (Garrison, 1997)


do you offhand know which species you are referring to...??

I did see references about heterotrophic species but nothing solid..

opps..



> Diatoms are major producers in aquatic environments; that is, they are responsible for as much as 40% of the photosynthesis that occurs in fresh water and in the oceans. They serve as the main base of the food chains in these habitats, supplying calories to heterotrophic protists and small animals. These, in turn, feed larger animals.


http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Protists.html




> Diatoms, Golden Algae, Brown Algae, and Water Molds: The Stramenopiles
> These organisms belong to a single clade, the stramenopiles (a/k/a heterokonts). *The first three members share:*
> 
> * a yellow-brown pigment (which gives them their color). It is a carotenoid called fucoxanthin.
> ...


things in botany (esp. classification) change w/ the wind.. I'd appreciate a source for your information......

finding out they threw water mold out of the fungus family was shocking enough...


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> finding out they threw water mold out of the fungus family was shocking enough...


OMG! What do we do now?


v3


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

CluelessAquarist said:


> loved that everyone missed flying hell fish's sarcasm. By the way, nice tank. Silly thread here though.


I noticed it, and was hoping someone would eventually mention it too...hahaha. 

Here OP, may you stumble upon that of which used the power of the CFLs. May they show you how powerful they truly are. With the power of the CFLs, MAY ALL THE PLANTS GROW!


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I completely agree with you kidgrave, CFL are awful awful awful lights. I dare anyone to find a tank using CFL that has any type of lust plant growth.
> 
> 
> I'll wait....
> ...


CFL bulbs, do grow plants, but I don't think that they are adequate. I was growing Ludwigia Repens on my 10 gallon dirted tank, where I was running 2x15 watt CFL bulbs, and was dosing co2 carbon, and the growth wasn't that good, and Ludwigia wasn't looking lush, and this was worrying me because I knew that dirted tanks are supposed to make plants look lush. I migrated stems of Ludwigia to my newly dirted 37 gallon tank, where I am running an Aquaticlife dual T5 fixture, and all of a sudden my Ludwigia became more lush: greener, taller, and it started growing faster, too.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

20H
23 watt CFLs
Black Diamond sand substrate
DIY CO2

*First Planting -*











*Two weeks -*











*Four weeks -*


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## rballi (Mar 4, 2010)

kidgrave said:


> CFL bulbs, do grow plants, but I don't think that they are adequate. I was growing Ludwigia Repens on my 10 gallon dirted tank, where I was running 2x15 watt CFL bulbs, and was dosing co2 carbon, and the growth wasn't that good, and Ludwigia wasn't looking lush, and this was worrying me because I knew that dirted tanks are supposed to make plants look lush. I migrated stems of Ludwigia to my newly dirted 37 gallon tank, where I am running an Aquaticlife dual T5 fixture, and all of a sudden my Ludwigia became more lush: greener, taller, and it started growing faster, too.



You are comparing apples to oranges here. There are so many other factors you are not accounting here for other than your lighting fixture is different. Everything from ph, to the dirt you used, to the bio load you have could change those results. Now if you were to put your t5 fixture over the same tank and made the same observations you be isolating the factors down by a few. Quality if the bulbs and reflectors also might have something to do with it. Have you taken par readings from these two fixtures to compare them?


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

rballi said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges here. There are so many other factors you are not accounting here for other than your lighting fixture is different. Everything from ph, to the dirt you used, to the bio load you have could change those results. Now if you were to put your t5 fixture over the same tank and made the same observations you be isolating the factors down by a few. Quality if the bulbs and reflectors also might have something to do with it. Have you taken par readings from these two fixtures to compare them?


Of course different factors could change the results of plant growth. I am using the same ph on both of my tanks, and same dirt. I do have the par readings for the fixtures I have been using. I know that a lot of people have had good plant growth with CFL bulbs, however, I don't think that all CFL bulbs are created equally. It is hard to know which CFL bulbs are good, specially when you don't know how much of the blue and red nm they are emitting.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

I use 2 13 Watt CFL's (sylvania's micro mini 6500K) in an Aqueon hood, and I have had an IMMENSE amount of plant growth. Lights are on eight hours, and after the tank fully settled in, along with some help from Nerites and phosphate adjustments, my diatoms are all gone as well. I have barely any algae TBH, and my plants are extremely happy. I wouldn't want any more on a ten gal I don't think.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

jeffkrol said:


> seems I'm still in "old school" mode:
> 
> do you offhand know which species you are referring to...??
> 
> ...


By saying they were diatoms I was mistaken. I believe they are dinoflagellates. For two main reasons. The first is "brown algae" is capable of growing in the darkness which means it is not photosynthetic. This alone excludes it from being a diatom. And the second is they are motile. If you wipe them off whatever surface they are resting on they will very quickly reappear on the surface they were just wiped from. Since the time they took to reappear is only a few minutes they couldn't have reproduced back in place, they must have swam back to their perch. This also precludes diatoms since they are not motile at all. See the information below.

And no I do not know which species they are. Do you?



> Nevertheless, two of the most successful plankton groups, the diatoms and the blue-green algae, are not able to actively swim.


*From:*​Algal Cultures and Phytoplankton Ecology
[censored]By Gordon Elliott Fogg 
Page 109
http://books.google.com/books?id=KG...freshwater aquarium -reef, -saltwater&f=false​


> *Not all dinoflagellates are photosynthetic.*
> Many dinoflagellates are photosynthetic, manufacturing their own food using the energy from sunlight, and providing a food source for other organisms. The photosynthetic dinoflagellates are important primary producers in coastal waters.
> Some photosynthetic dinoflagellates are symbiotic, living in the cells of their hosts, such as corals. Called zooxanthellae, they are found in many marine invertebrates, including sponges, corals, jellyfish, and flatworms, as well as within protists, such as ciliates, foraminiferans, and colonial radiolarians.
> 
> Approximately half of all species are heterotrophic, eating other plankton, and sometimes each other, by snaring or stinging their prey. Non-photosynthetic species of dinoflagellates feed on diatoms or other protists (including other dinoflagellates); Noctiluca is large enough to eat zooplankton and fish eggs. Some species are parasites on algae, zooplankton, fish or other organisms.


*From:*​http://siobiolum.ucsd.edu/dino_intro.html​


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I completely agree with you kidgrave, CFL are awful awful awful lights. I dare anyone to find a tank using CFL that has any type of lust plant growth.
> 
> 
> I'll wait....
> ...


 Look under my thread's for 300 litre low tech with CFL bulb's.
10,000K/6700K x2 65 watt.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Zapins said:


> By saying they were diatoms I was mistaken. I believe they are dinoflagellates. For two main reasons. The first is "brown algae" is capable of growing in the darkness which means it is not photosynthetic. This alone excludes it from being a diatom. And the second is they are motile. If you wipe them off whatever surface they are resting on they will very quickly reappear on the surface they were just wiped from. Since the time they took to reappear is only a few minutes they couldn't have reproduced back in place, they must have swam back to their perch. This also precludes diatoms since they are not motile at all. See the information below.
> 
> And no I do not know which species they are. Do you?
> 
> ...


OK now we are getting somewhere.... We at least have now seperated diatoms from dynoflagellates..



> question is how would one identify each in an aquarium..
> because a"treatment" would differ based on one or the other..
> Figures 1 and 2 show some typical organisms in reef aquaria that may be dinoflagellates, although they have not been identified as such by an expert. In any case, these have the typical look of trapped gas bubbles in a slimy coating on surfaces.


http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php


I "assumed" his problem was diatoms, which will either go away by itself or you can remove silica,, You "assume" it is dynoflagellates..which from that article above seems to be treated similar but different (decreased light as an example)

Anyways my "bloom" was easily wiped off and took days to rebuild where they were.. I'm pretty sure what "I" had was diatoms..

Lets face it.. w/out a "scope" neither of us know what they have..
I suppose if it is a slimy bubbly coating, and things are dying from the toxins it is dynoflagellates.. If it is brown, powdery easily removed and does not quickly recolonize where removed it is diatoms.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

roadmaster said:


> Look under my thread's for 300 litre low tech with CFL bulb's.
> 10,000K/6700K x2 65 watt.


I'll look into it. What brand are your bulbs. I was using General Electric and Phillips bulbs.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

I'm sure there are hundreds of species of each that are similarly powdery. If they grow in the dark they aren't diatoms. If they swim they aren't diatoms. Seems like two fairly easy ways of separating the two types.

Though you bring up a good point. There are so many look alike species that may be totally different but macroscopically look similar. I think this highlights why nobody has figured out a perfect method of maintaining an algae free tank or for that matter - reliable methods for eliminating every type of algae that appears in our tanks. There are so many similar looking species that it seems pointless to even try.

I do have a darkfield microscope and DSLR camera attachment, so I suppose I could take photos if my tank ever developed diatoms or dinoflagellates, though what good that would do others who don't have access to a scope is beyond me.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

for fun:


> But the UCal Berkeley Chrysophyta homepage gives the quickest introduction. You won't need all this, unless you get sucked into a disagreement over whether diatoms are algae. ("That depends on your definition of 'algae'" is the correct riposte.)


http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/diatoms

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/dinoflagellates

As a side note.. IF I was to wager exactly what group was causing an unsightly brown dusting in my freshwater aquarium.. odds are in my favor its diatoms.. could be wrong..
Dynoflagellates seem more of an issue w/ SW



Guess I was wrong about the "light thing" though:



> Diatoms are everywhere in freshwater and in the aquarium. Low light levels don't discourage diatoms. They can photosynthesize at dim light intensities even algae can't use.


http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/diatom-control


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

kidgrave said:


> I'll look into it. What brand are your bulbs. I was using General Electric and Phillips bulbs.


 Coral life.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

When you're using CFl's you need to make sure they are the 6500k daylights and you still use a reflector. Also wattage is important. 13 watts on a ten gallon probably wasn't enough. I was using 3 100w equivalent on a 40 gallon.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

ChadKruger said:


> When you're using CFl's you need to make sure they are the 6500k daylights and you still use a reflector. Also wattage is important. 13 watts on a ten gallon probably wasn't enough. I was using 3 100w equivalent on a 40 gallon.


 
Plant's will grow under nearly any light you run over top them.
I am now using 32 watt T8's x 3 Zoo med Reef /Sun 10,000K over 300 litre low tech and plant's grow fine.( I like the blueish deep water look)
Have used 4000K ,6500 K, 6700K,8000K,and combination's of these with the 10,000K. Personally can't stand the look of 5000K or 6500K bulb's in my tank's (too yellow looking).
PAR is more important than wattage.
Might expieriement with different spectrum's to find what look's best to you.
As mentioned,,plant's will use what light is available.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

> I think [STRIKE]CFL bulbs are[/STRIKE] the Sun is bad for plant growth.


And now for a curve ball. I have proof that an 11 month old CFL, which many think should be replaced at 12 mo, is better than the Sun. 


I took down my outdoors container pond and placed the plants and comets inside a temporary 20g high tank. Within the last 8 months, the taro plant stems would grow a max of 10" with 6 hrs of direct sunlight but when moved indoors about a week ago and placed under a lamp some 30" away, one of the new sprout stems is almost 20" tall and the leaf is double the size of the parent stems. 

The stem reaching for the lamp is 7 days old and the one to the left of it is 4 days old and following close behind. The 5 smaller stems are over 3 weeks old. Each stem usually dies off within 5 weeks and new ones take their place.

Proof is in the pudding. Old outdated 10w CFLs are better than the Sun :hihi:

Just kidding of course. Just making light of the topic. Results are true though.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

My first planted tank was a 10g, and I stuck to CFLs in the incandescent striplight. It was an awesome, beautiful, mess of a jungle.

Granted, CFLs may not be the absolute best lighting option, but for a few reasons, they are going to continue to be popular.

1.) They are cheap.

2.) They are readily available. Hell, you can buy them in most convenience and thrift stores around here.

3.) They are fairly versatile. Stick them in an incandescent hood. Stick them in a clip-on brooder reflector. Buy a cheap lamp and ditch the vase part. Since the ballast is included in the bulb, you don't need a specially wired fixture to handle them.

4.) You can vary the light color/output by switching out bulbs. I usually just use daylight, but some people like the color better when it's some mix of bulbs. And you can vary the wattage of the bulbs to adjust your light levels up or down as needed.

5.) They are relatively small. This makes them great for lighting small, or unusually shaped tanks. (granted, LED's will do this, but it will either take a lot more money, or considerable DIY skills)


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

jeffkrol said:


> for fun:
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/diatoms
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/dinoflagellates


Interesting reads, thanks.



jeffkrol said:


> As a side note.. IF I was to wager exactly what group was causing an unsightly brown dusting in my freshwater aquarium.. odds are in my favor its diatoms.. could be wrong..


Probably. There are so many look alike species. Your "algae" was probably diatoms as you say. I've seen the type you mention. It grows on my pH probe and on the glass of one of my old tanks near the substrate layer. It is very difficult to wipe off. The dinoflagellates I had in my other tank were easy to wipe off and appeared back where they had been wiped off quickly. They do look alike.



jeffkrol said:


> Dynoflagellates seem more of an issue w/ SW


True, but a full 10% of all dino. species are freshwater which still leaves thousands of candidates.


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## Behike (May 27, 2014)

I use two 13w 6500k CFLs for my 10 gal and see great plant growth. I had diatoms at first but was happy cause then it meant my tank cycled. Haven't had any issues with diatoms afterwards and only see algae if I dose too much. Only probably I have is that I have large decorations in the tank that my wife likes and plants that are in the shadows don't get enough light. Otherwise...I get good healthy growth. Then again I'm not growing HC nor plan to using CFLs....

Are there better options?....yes. Did I want to spend $100 on T5's or halide? Not for a 10 gal. Maybe my next 55gal.... 

Once again...it all comes down to equipping yourself to care for what you are stocking in your tank...fish and plants. 


Behike


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I completely agree with you kidgrave, CFL are awful awful awful lights. I dare anyone to find a tank using CFL that has any type of lust plant growth.
> 
> 
> I'll wait....
> ...





roadmaster said:


> Look under my thread's for 300 litre low tech with CFL bulb's.
> 10,000K/6700K x2 65 watt.


I was being sarcastic when I wrote that, I actually started out with CFL. Here what I did with 2x CFL 23watts









=======









CFL is basically T5HO, which is basically what everyone used up until the LED revolution. You can't go wrong either way, but I dig the extra features of LEDs.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I was being sarcastic when I wrote that, I actually started out with CFL. Here what I did with 2x CFL 23watts
> 
> 
> =======
> ...


Exactly. CFL bulbs work great and many people can prove that. It's not at all the end all of lighting but it works and it's cheap. 

Another example, my 10 gallon's HC WITHOUT CO2 (Sorry couldn't resist haha)


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