# Catalina aquarium LED's



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Jose posted this, but figured I'd offer it up here as well:

"CREE XP-G LEDs, $7 each. These are very bright! 347 lumens per LED 
when driven at 1000mA
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-52/CREE-XP-dsh-G-R5-Cool/Detail

Drivers, each driver can handle up to 14 LEDs, $26
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-51/Mean-Well-LPC-dsh-60-
dsh-1050-constant/Detail

24" heatsink, $35
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-82/4.25"-x-23"-Aluminum/Detail

fans, $10+
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-Fans/Categories

You could even get fancy and hook up a microcontroller to be able 
to fully dim the lights as you wish!"

Not too bad, several threads here detail it, lots on reef sites.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Wow, those prices mean that LED fixtures have the potential to go mainstream for FW tanks soon, too.


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## Min (Dec 23, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> Jose posted this, but figured I'd offer it up here as well:
> 
> "CREE XP-G LEDs, $7 each. These are very bright! 347 lumens per LED
> when driven at 1000mA
> ...


you can get Cree xpg for almost $5. (i just bought 115 units) 

get dimmable drivers!!! so you can easily adjust your overkill! 

you can use different aluminum fixtures to spread your LED's no real need for heatsinks and fans. unless they are highly concentrated on one heatsink.

i did my DIY LED for 55g cost me <$90. my LFS had T5 lights for me that did not even fit into my canopy for $115, so leds are already cheaper.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

One reason for the high cost of LED lights is the extras that T5HO lights don't have. For example, dimming is very rare for T5 lights. Adjusting the color temperature is unheard of for T5 lights. Programmed brightness throughout the day is not done with T5 lights. Once you drop all of those extras, LED lights become much more economical.

One good thing to take advantage of with LED lights (my opinion) is the ability to get very uniform light intensity in the tank. That takes more LEDs, but lower power LEDs, than just replacing the concentrated light from T5s with concentrated light from LEDs. But, if you don't want to do that, LEDs certainly are already economical compared to T5s today. My preference is to give up some of that cost savings to get the more uniform light, and my DIY LED lights do that.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I already know of the DIY aspect, my thing, and one that makes the lighting much more mainstream is the pre made ones.

Many just will not do it.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> Many just will not do it.


Like me. :icon_cool

I'll DIY lots of stuff, but not anything electrical. Especially electrical stuff that's gonna be near water... LOL


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

lauraleellbp said:


> Like me. :icon_cool
> 
> I'll DIY lots of stuff, but not anything electrical. Especially electrical stuff that's gonna be near water... LOL


Not a 9 volt licker huh?:icon_redf
I think many are the same way, but it's a matter of time before someone like Catalina or some other outfit makes them and they will be a bit more than T5's, but the options and reduced energy will make up for that.


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## Solid (Jul 19, 2009)

Min said:


> you can use different aluminum fixtures to spread your LED's no real need for heatsinks and fans. unless they are highly concentrated on one heatsink.


Heatsinks will make your LEDs last longer and use less electricity per lumen. So I would recommend them.

I have read on some reef forums that one reason LED fixtures are already not commercially available in the US, is that a certain company holds the patent for LEDs used for aquatic growth (or some such nonsense) and they have been very active suing smaller companies that try to sell them. Thats why there are lots of sites (like rapidleds.com) that sell kits but don't sell fixtures.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> Not a 9 volt licker huh?:icon_redf


Was that a confession? :hihi:

My hair can be wild and wooly enough, I don't need the Einstein thing going! ROFL


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## cdwill (Aug 1, 2010)

+1 for Catalina. Just purchased this fixture for my new 56g and it's perfect: http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=71_190&products_id=1414

I had the switches reversed, no charge. LEDs and mounting legs thrown in gratis without even asking. Catalina was responsive via email and fixture was packaged well and shipped (cross-country) quickly. Highly recommended.


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## trackhazard (Aug 24, 2006)

Solid said:


> I have read on some reef forums that one reason LED fixtures are already not commercially available in the US, is that a certain company holds the patent for LEDs used for aquatic growth (or some such nonsense) and they have been very active suing smaller companies that try to sell them. Thats why there are lots of sites (like rapidleds.com) that sell kits but don't sell fixtures.


This is a reference to Orbital vs PFO. Created lots of bad blood. Basically Orbital Technologies obtained a patent for using LEDs as light on aquariums and sued PFO, creators of the Solaris LED fixture for copyright infringement. PFO eventually went bankrupt and the case was dismissed. Orbitec continues to hold the patent afaik and likely all LED applications will need licensing from them although there are some loopholes in the patent.

With this said, there are still a number of commercially available LED fixtures on the market. Eco Lams, Ecoxotic, Elos, Vertex, TMC Aquaray and Aqua Illumination all have LED fixtures. Cree, the company that makes LEDs, has just released an aquarium fixture as well. The issue is that most, if not all of these fixtures are really designed for marine applications and most marine guys are used to paying hundreds to thousands of dollars for their lights. Most planted guys I know still cling to T-5s because they can get the color spectrums they want and the lower initial costs.

I am still excited about the future of LED and if Catalina can make a no frills LED that works at a decent price, then more power to them!

-Charlie


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

lauraleellbp said:


> Was that a confession? :hihi:
> 
> My hair can be wild and wooly enough, I don't need the Einstein thing going! ROFL


Static in my attic?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Tom,

No love for SFBAAPS?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

trackhazard said:


> This is a reference to Orbital vs PFO. Created lots of bad blood. Basically Orbital Technologies obtained a patent for using LEDs as light on aquariums and sued PFO, creators of the Solaris LED fixture for copyright infringement. PFO eventually went bankrupt and the case was dismissed. Orbitec continues to hold the patent afaik and likely all LED applications will need licensing from them although there are some loopholes in the patent.
> 
> With this said, there are still a number of commercially available LED fixtures on the market. Eco Lams, Ecoxotic, Elos, Vertex, TMC Aquaray and Aqua Illumination all have LED fixtures. Cree, the company that makes LEDs, has just released an aquarium fixture as well. The issue is that most, if not all of these fixtures are really designed for marine applications and most marine guys are used to paying hundreds to thousands of dollars for their lights. Most planted guys I know still cling to T-5s because they can get the color spectrums they want and the lower initial costs.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think this is a good overall history thus far.
The thing with Catalina, is the guy is nice, approachable, we can help them out and also ourselves, which makes it a win-win for both.

Being local to me, I can go over and detail specifically what I want. Catalina can then make it and then market it on line for TPT folks or the planted folks in general.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

speedie408 said:


> Tom,
> 
> No love for SFBAAPS?


You are not quite local, but you will indirectly benefit from it.
Since folks can get semi local products that are specific to plant tank needs.

Fairly under rated area of lighting sales, Kim from A&H did well, this guy could too.


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## Min (Dec 23, 2010)

Solid said:


> Heatsinks will make your LEDs last longer and use less electricity per lumen. So I would recommend them.


IMO the LED will be more effected by the water evaporation than heatsink. As to this day i never heard about LED overheating and blowing out. they seem to stay hot at about 39Celsius which is hot to touch, but not hot enough to burn you. 

The power consumption is so little already that your night light uses more power. 

hoppy missed one point, you will not need to switch out LED every year or so either like T5's


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

I've been following the LED trend for a while now, and played around with a couple builds. 
My biggest problem with LEDs, and the reason why i haven't really adopted the tech is spectrum. 6500K LEDs are NOT equal to 6500k fluorescent. The current gen of LEDs really wash out red/orange/purples. 
Once the manufacturers figure out how to replicate fluorescent phosphors, I'll be on board 100%, as the rest of the benefits of LEDs are very appealing.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

This is the famous reefcentral post I was referring to. The original thread is several hundred pages long now. The basic wiring concept is very simple. The LEDs are wired in series, + to - to + and so forth. Then hook up to your driver, and that's it. You can add a dimmable driver, which requires a little more work. 

Check out the PAR readings at the very bottom. This is with 48 LEDs over a 75g tank, much more than what we would need. I've been strongly considering giving this a try!



> Many of you have seen my preview. This is the full instruction sheet. I hope it's clear enough but feel free to ask any questions. I will try to respond as soon as possible.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> ...


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

wow that really helps a lot. Thanks!


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## Jim Miller (Dec 24, 2002)

Patent for aquarium lighting???

I'll be right back after I file for the WC lighting patent...

Our patent office at work...

Jim


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

I'm very interested,

So how much or many led (watts) are needed for a planted aquarium, eguivalent to a t5ho set up? in comparison to LED (watts) vs. t5ho watts (say 2watts/gallon) in terms of par readings?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

rwong2k said:


> I'm very interested,
> 
> So how much or many led (watts) are needed for a planted aquarium, eguivalent to a t5ho set up? in comparison to LED (watts) vs. t5ho watts (say 2watts/gallon) in terms of par readings?


My estimations are about 0.7W/gal, but it depends on the spread, depth of the tank. 1-1.2 w/gal would be fairly high light. 

This is less than 1/2 of standard old school Watt per gallon rules.
Spacing and light spread are important, we do not need the intensity the reef folks seek.

The light is somewhat yucky in color, but perhaps that will improbve and be scalable, dialable in the near future as well.

I'd love a nice spect graph that I could move and manipulate with a touch screen. Drag up and down various nm band intensities etc.

Ah....maybe when I'm old and grey.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Indignation said:


> I've been following the LED trend for a while now, and played around with a couple builds.
> My biggest problem with LEDs, and the reason why i haven't really adopted the tech is spectrum. 6500K LEDs are NOT equal to 6500k fluorescent. The current gen of LEDs really wash out red/orange/purples.
> Once the manufacturers figure out how to replicate fluorescent phosphors, I'll be on board 100%, as the rest of the benefits of LEDs are very appealing.


One of my main gripes as well, the Gieseman bulbs colors are nice to the eye.
But............if they get the LED close to those, I'll never look back.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Use enough LEDs mounted close enough together, and you can dial whatever spectrum you want. You could use 1 watt LEDs, in white, red, blue and green, perhaps 1 inch a part in both directions, then control the intensity of each color with a separate variable current power supply to get the appearance you want. The LEDs need to be very close together to avoid seeing colored spots at the top of the water, or the light needs to be high enough above the tank so the colors mix before striking the water. But, that means even more LEDs at more power to account for the added distance from them to the substrate. Clearly a compromise is needed. (There are LEDs with 3 emitters in them, red, green and blue, with each emitter separately powered, which would simplify this a little bit.) This would not be a cheap light.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

rwong2k said:


> I'm very interested,
> 
> So how much or many led (watts) are needed for a planted aquarium, eguivalent to a t5ho set up? in comparison to LED (watts) vs. t5ho watts (say 2watts/gallon) in terms of par readings?


My Catalina T5HO fixture with two Giesemann bulbs gives me about 40-50 PAR at 28". If you look at my post above, that guy was getting 100+ PAR in a 75g tank, I'd say about 24" off the substrate. That was with two arrays of 24 LEDs, 48 total. 

That's a lot of light for a FW planted tank, so I'd say half as many LEDs in each array should give you a good amount of PAR for plants.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

One of the most expensive parts of a LED light can be the finned heatsink. For a big light that can be almost half the minimum cost. But, I think we now know that a heatsink of that type isn't necessary, nor are cooling fans necessary, as long as you don't go for near maximum electric current thru the LEDs. At 350 - 500 mAmps, or so, they don't get hot enough that a simple piece of aluminum can't act as a good enough heatsink. Driving the LEDs at the lower current means more LEDs are needed, but it also means cheaper LEDs can be used - the expensive newer ones produce more light primarily by being able to operate at a much higher current. Having more LEDs in the light offers lots of advantages.

It also isn't necessary to have a separate DC power supply and driver - the Meanwell drivers combine those functions and work very well. You don't even need the programable Meanwell driver - most of us will adjust the driver only once, when we first set it up, and ordinary Meanwell drivers have current and output voltage adjustment screws, easy to get to by removing 4 screws and the top of the housing.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

Good info Hoppy. I've read the stuff about the dimmable drivers and hooking up a potentiometer but it still confuses me! So on your fixture, I noticed you had only one driver controlling all those LEDs. The part I still dont get it, how do control the current through the LEDs? Is that by taking apart the driver and adjusting the screw down to let say, 350mA? And if you wanted to run them at full power (1000mA), you just leave the screw alone? 

Also, I found this place that has decent prices on heatsinks. A 4x48" heatsink goes for $60

http://www.heatsinkusa.com/storename/heatsinkusa/home.aspx


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## Min (Dec 23, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> One of the most expensive parts of a LED light can be the finned heatsink. For a big light that can be almost half the minimum cost. But, I think we now know that a heatsink of that type isn't necessary, nor are cooling fans necessary, as long as you don't go for near maximum electric current thru the LEDs. At 350 - 500 mAmps, or so, they don't get hot enough that a simple piece of aluminum can't act as a good enough heatsink. Driving the LEDs at the lower current means more LEDs are needed, but it also means cheaper LEDs can be used - the expensive newer ones produce more light primarily by being able to operate at a much higher current. Having more LEDs in the light offers lots of advantages.
> 
> It also isn't necessary to have a separate DC power supply and driver - the Meanwell drivers combine those functions and work very well. You don't even need the programable Meanwell driver - most of us will adjust the driver only once, when we first set it up, and ordinary Meanwell drivers have current and output voltage adjustment screws, easy to get to by removing 4 screws and the top of the housing.


+1 could not tell it better myself

im getting things together for another project for 200g tank, with 100 LED and 8 drivers and some aluminum square pipe looking drain pipe for heatsink


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Min said:


> +1 could not tell it better myself
> 
> im getting things together for another project for 200g tank, with 100 LED and 8 drivers and some aluminum square pipe looking drain pipe for heatsink


Min,

Is there a writeup currently available for your project, or something similar? If not, I'd think it would benefit TPT as a whole if you made a detailed LED writeup. I would love to see it evolve!


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## Tu13es (Jan 21, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Anyways, I noticed the small all LED hood and got talking.


Was this the one?

http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=71_167&products_id=1633

CA doesn't seem to have much else for LED lighting yet. I'd love to see a decently-priced all-LED fixture.


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## calvert (Apr 29, 2010)

this thread makes me want to spend money.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

calvert said:


> this thread makes me want to spend money.




Money I wish I had... Sounds like a project to screw around with on a small scale first...


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> My estimations are about 0.7W/gal, but it depends on the spread, depth of the tank. 1-1.2 w/gal would be fairly high light.
> 
> This is less than 1/2 of standard old school Watt per gallon rules.
> Spacing and light spread are important, we do not need the intensity the reef folks seek.
> ...


Thanks for the approximation!
I don't have access to a par meter so an approximation using the watts/gallon rule is pretty useful, when selecting/building my unit

I've read off the internet that's it's as high as 1:4 led watts : t5ho watts to 1:2 ratio

Here's one of those articles (http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html#led)
but I think they're also a manufacture or a distributor so it's kinda biased, but a pretty good read.


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## Min (Dec 23, 2010)

speedie408 said:


> Min,
> 
> Is there a writeup currently available for your project, or something similar? If not, I'd think it would benefit TPT as a whole if you made a detailed LED writeup. I would love to see it evolve!


work in progress i started a thread here 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/128230-diy-cheapest-cree-xpg-led-fixture.html


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Tu13es said:


> Was this the one?
> 
> http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=71_167&products_id=1633
> 
> CA doesn't seem to have much else for LED lighting yet. I'd love to see a decently-priced all-LED fixture.


No, I spoke with him a few days back, he's making them and has not had time to list them etc.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

rwong2k said:


> Thanks for the approximation!
> I don't have access to a par meter so an approximation using the watts/gallon rule is pretty useful, when selecting/building my unit
> 
> I've read off the internet that's it's as high as 1:4 led watts : t5ho watts to 1:2 ratio
> ...


You have to be careful when applying W/gal or approximations, they can be way off with LED's and other different brands, and distance seems more important with LED's vs say T5.

The factor you list for a ratio above accurately describes the problem.
So if the light has a specific PAR and curve, then you can use that for estimation, but the problem is when folks assume ALL LED'S are the same, or all T5's are the same etc, and folks sure as heck sure love to do that type of assuming as much as they love chocolate.

Happens with EI/fert routines, CO2 and of course.......lighting.

So do not assume, verify.
That's why all the whacky charts, Calculators and graphs etc.......will never replace a PAR meter. I've argued this point for a good 15 years and it's held up pretty well, and I have had some pretty sharp folks nag me on this one.

The problem is that brands do not stick around for lomng, they come out with new models and new bulbs and new color temps and new reflectors, and new ballast types.

It's like hitting a moving target.
So the PAR meter can test each new one that comes along etc.
We cannot assume that every T5 and every LED model from here till the cows come home ....will be the same, even within say 20% error.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Min said:


> +1 could not tell it better myself
> 
> im getting things together for another project for 200g tank, with 100 LED and 8 drivers and some aluminum square pipe looking drain pipe for heatsink


You'd only need 70 LED's, not 100.
But you can use a dimmer and then dial it down as needed.
We do not have any products that do that well with FL's.
They do in Europe, but not here. Correctly made, I do not think anyone would ever need more than 1w/gal of LED lighting.


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

GWAPA has been working with the folks @ Catalina for a few years. Great service and people. Their products are top notch and as Tom said its nice to help out a small town USA business. Im going to have to take a look at their LED line now.


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## Min (Dec 23, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> You'd only need 70 LED's, not 100.
> But you can use a dimmer and then dial it down as needed.
> We do not have any products that do that well with FL's.
> They do in Europe, but not here. Correctly made, I do not think anyone would ever need more than 1w/gal of LED lighting.


there will be 104 LED white crees and 10 blue cree, on 9 dimmable drivers total. just in case we decide to go salt water sometime  look up my link earlier. ill put more pics tomorrow.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

If only there was an LED light fixture that was triangular and would fit my 54g corner! Anyone up for a custom job ?


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## shawnhu (Jan 23, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> One of the most expensive parts of a LED light can be the finned heatsink. For a big light that can be almost half the minimum cost. But, I think we now know that a heatsink of that type isn't necessary, nor are cooling fans necessary, as long as you don't go for near maximum electric current thru the LEDs. At 350 - 500 mAmps, or so, they don't get hot enough that a simple piece of aluminum can't act as a good enough heatsink. Driving the LEDs at the lower current means more LEDs are needed, but it also means cheaper LEDs can be used - the expensive newer ones produce more light primarily by being able to operate at a much higher current. Having more LEDs in the light offers lots of advantages.
> 
> It also isn't necessary to have a separate DC power supply and driver - the Meanwell drivers combine those functions and work very well. You don't even need the programable Meanwell driver - most of us will adjust the driver only once, when we first set it up, and ordinary Meanwell drivers have current and output voltage adjustment screws, easy to get to by removing 4 screws and the top of the housing.


Hoppy, is this the cheaper constant current drivers you are referring to? Can they too, be dialed down using the method mentioned?


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## VaultBoy (Nov 11, 2010)

Dave-H said:


> If only there was an LED light fixture that was triangular and would fit my 54g corner! Anyone up for a custom job ?


 
this will prob be a project for me in the near future... once i finish the one im building for my 29g then im building an arduino powered light controller for the "morning - day - noon - day - dusk - moonlight" effect and if i get around to it i will add changing day lengths for summer and winter, possibly with heater control also, maybe this will make for easier breeding if i can simulate a winter - spring transition...

i just read this back and realised that i have way too many projects on the go... oh well dreams are free


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## shawnhu (Jan 23, 2009)

http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/categories.aspx?id=2054&cid=5523&mid=5528

Marineland has released their LED fixtures to Petsmart local stores.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Jim from Catalina called me and has built the LED's specific for planted tanks, we just need to measure the PAR and then we will post the data.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

shawnhu said:


> http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/categories.aspx?id=2054&cid=5523&mid=5528
> 
> Marineland has released their LED fixtures to Petsmart local stores.


They use those 1 watt lights, not the 3 w Cree. Catalina is a small business, much like Ideal needle valve, or our LFS's.......I would rather give them a plug for helping us specifically. Same with SeaChem who also came in and helped a lot in the past even though we often think of them as some large corporation, they really are not. Greg, CEO/Prez is very open and helpful. Would the CEO of Petsmart converse with me personally for product development and be as responsive? 

Jim was nice and offered freebies for the local club etc.
I have no issues helping out such folks. Petsmart?
Nope, they and other large chains have killed off a few LFS's, without helping the hobby with knowledge or local clubs. 

Maybe I'm more a farmer's market type of guy.
Buy local, stay local etc. But larger does not have to be worse also, if done right.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> ...Would the CEO of Petsmart converse with me personally for product development and be as responsive?


Probably NOT. I once proposed something to Petsmart corporate that was vey planted aquaria friendly. Made it's way through the various levels of bull[censored][censored][censored][censored]. I signed 50 documents wasted alot of my time and they ultimately turned it down. It was risk free to them.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> Probably NOT. I once proposed something to Petsmart corporate that was vey planted aquaria friendly. Made it's way through the various levels of bull[censored][censored][censored][censored]. I signed 50 documents wasted alot of my time and they ultimately turned it down. It was risk free to them.


It was risk free to you, too. 
What do you expect from a huge company like that?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Dave-H said:


> It was risk free to you, too.
> What do you expect from a huge company like that?


1. I'm agreeing with Mr. Barr.
2. How do you know it was risk free to me. Did you see what I signed?


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## shawnhu (Jan 23, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Jim from Catalina called me and has built the LED's specific for planted tanks, we just need to measure the PAR and then we will post the data.


Although I've never purchased a Catalina product, I'm excited to see that they are buidling LED lighting for planted folks.


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## shawnhu (Jan 23, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> They use those 1 watt lights, not the 3 w Cree. Catalina is a small business, much like Ideal needle valve, or our LFS's.......I would rather give them a plug for helping us specifically. Same with SeaChem who also came in and helped a lot in the past even though we often think of them as some large corporation, they really are not. Greg, CEO/Prez is very open and helpful. Would the CEO of Petsmart converse with me personally for product development and be as responsive?
> 
> Jim was nice and offered freebies for the local club etc.
> I have no issues helping out such folks. Petsmart?
> ...


Tom, don't be mistaken, I'm with you 100%. I was just amazed that Marineland got on the ball with LED fixtures, and is probably one of the first for the aquarium hobby. But their over-priced fixture, and low lumen output is not nearly sufficient for most of our planted needs.

I came back to this hobby after a 15 year break, and wonder where all the LFS has gone, only to be replaced by Petsmart and Petco everywhere.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

i have both the double bright and the new reef capable one. i got them to test on low light tanks. they are ok for that use, however, the whites are 10k but tend to wash out colors, and the blue are plain useless for planted tanks. you get major spot light effects with the reef capable one as well. it would be an easy engineering fix to modify the fixture with combo 10k and 6.5k whites for fw sales. 

I would love to try CA led fixtures if they are designed for fw planted tanks. all the mass produced fixtures i have seen so far are salty oriented and not very good for our market (not a DIY guy, so making my own is out of the question). i have many of their t5ho fixtures so the quality and customer service is there. cant wait.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

shawnhu said:


> Tom, don't be mistaken, I'm with you 100%. I was just amazed that Marineland got on the ball with LED fixtures, and is probably one of the first for the aquarium hobby. But their over-priced fixture, and low lumen output is not nearly sufficient for most of our planted needs.
> 
> I came back to this hobby after a 15 year break, and wonder where all the LFS has gone, only to be replaced by Petsmart and Petco everywhere.


Yes, they finally did, as have many others, this should drive the cost down for the rest of us, much like PC and T5 lights has over the last decade.

Real $$$$ at first, then later....much less.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

dhavoc said:


> i have both the double bright and the new reef capable one. i got them to test on low light tanks. they are ok for that use, however, the whites are 10k but tend to wash out colors, and the blue are plain useless for planted tanks. you get major spot light effects with the reef capable one as well. it would be an easy engineering fix to modify the fixture with combo 10k and 6.5k whites for fw sales.
> 
> I would love to try CA led fixtures if they are designed for fw planted tanks. all the mass produced fixtures i have seen so far are salty oriented and not very good for our market (not a DIY guy, so making my own is out of the question). i have many of their t5ho fixtures so the quality and customer service is there. cant wait.


Jim called me the couple of days ago and I just got the PAR meter back, so off it'll go for him to test with it.

He made 2 hoods for planted tanks, his are 6.5K I believe, they had nice color at the shop, but till you see it and use it yourself, hard to tell if you/plants will like the color.

I might have him make a nice retro system all mounted on a custom piece of metal I might have made.

Then add a custom transformer dimmable driver for each of the 3 color types, red, white and blue. This should give me the ultimate lighting for the tank, aesthetics to boot, and high efficiency.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

What kind of price range are we talking about for the Catalina custom LEDs? I'm just curious what kind of ball-park it would be to make a triangular LED setup for a corner tank - 54 gallons looking for good medium light. Could you take a guess?


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

lf l ever buy another fixture i'm going to go with catalina's leds. I like it when a company is willing to try new things and branch out with new ideas(t5's with led's). l'm just waiting for the right fixture for plant growth and decent looking to come out(something like the ada solar series). So far 6.5 and 8k seem to be my favorite. Ecoxotic has the 8k which i'm very happy about but no fixture just modules. They are pricey for 100$ each but if you got the money and buy enough it's going to be a very nice fixture. Currently i'm using 3 shimmer modules on a 2.5g to grow hc and it's doing very nice. l didn't see any 36" of this version:
http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=71_167&products_id=1809
but i'm pretty sure he could make it custom made for me.
This fixture is another one I liked:
http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=71_167&products_id=1633
Too bad l can't read german or this one would be interesting to get:
http://giesemann.de/267,1,,.html

lucky germans...


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## 3x100cart (Mar 5, 2011)

shawnhu said:


> I came back to this hobby after a 15 year break, and wonder where all the LFS has gone, only to be replaced by Petsmart and Petco everywhere.


Think we need a moment of silence for all those lost stores.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

A lot of those stores had worse conditions than the big box stores ever have. Let's not romanticize those old mom and pop stores too much - some of them were pretty awful


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