# Hardiness of Amano shrimp?



## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

In my 20 gallon tall thread/journal, I discussed getting the fish community on the weekend:

20 gallon journal

The stocking list in summary is:
20 Cardinal Tetras
3 Rummy Nose Tetras
2 Emperor Tetras
4 Rainbows (2 are Celebes - the other two I can't remember/not sure)
5 Otos

And 5 Amano (Japonica) Shrimp

This community was recommended to me by the LFS, who have several beautifully planted tanks, and a lot of livestock not carried by anyone else.

I was surprised that they had Amano shrimp, since I thought they were a bit rare in NA. Anyway, the plant expert recommended that I get some, as a preventative for hair algae. They were $5 (CDN) each, which were pricey, but not outrageous.

The first two days, they were wandering around the tank, and seemed very happy. They were even picking around in the Riccia right in the front of the tank.

Lately, they've taken to congregation at the top of the heater constantly. They look ok, but they don't wander around too much. The fish are not harrassing them, so I didn't know what is going on.

I am wondering if they are getting enough to eat, since this is a fairly new tank.

This morning, I (My wife actually) found one dead on the bottom. It was all pinkish, looking like it was cooked. I don't know what happened. The fish weren't even picking at it.

Prior to running to work, I took pH and nitrate measurements:
pH = 6
Nitrate = 10 ppm

2 days ago I did a full battery of tests:
pH = 6
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite =0
Nitrate = 5 - 10 ppm
KH < 1
GH = 3

I noted the lower pH and added a "tuffa" rock from Big Al's. Upon closer examination, it's a piece of aragonite from lithified coral, so I thought it woud be good for buffering pH a bit.

Oh yeah, temp. is a contant 77 degrees F and the lights are on for 2 hours in the morning for feeding and 8 hours from afternoon to bedtime with a 65W Coralife PC (6700) K. Did I do something wrong, or are these shrimps just fragile? I am going to try and bring it back for a replacement today since it's only 3 days old, but I want to know if I should just take a credit or get a replacement.

Edit: I forgot to add that I am doing DIY CO2 with the Hagen ladder, if that makes any difference.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

A few years ago I had about a half dozen Amano shrimp in my 125 gallon tank, at about 80 degrees F, with irregular DIY CO2, hard water (I forget the numbers), and loads of Platys, plus SAE's. Those lived for about 2 years, dying one by one after that, probably due to old age. I ended up with only a couple when I tore down the tank, and they had to be 3 years old or so. From that I concluded that they are pretty hardy and easy to keep.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks for the input Hoppy. Since this was the first time I've had shrimp, I was a little concerned, after some research on the web saying they are brackish, etc., etc.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, they are considered very tough shrimp. Mine live a long time in 6.7 pH with 4 to 5 d GH. Remember, if you see a shell, they probably just molted, and they are not dead. I remember when I first started keeping them, I would see this exoskeleton and think, oh, no, there goes another $3 bucks. Then I would count my Amanos and all were there. Took a while before I figured out (duh) what was going on. And the big green ones are the females that are really chomping on the algae. The males are clear and fairly useless IMO.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Unfortunately, this exoskeleton had meat. 

Hmmm...looks like I have 2 males and 2 females then. I got a replacement tonight from the LFS. I have not been able to find the 5th one though. It's either dead or hiding in the plants in the back.

Thanks for the info.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Hate to admit it, but I didn't read the first post, just a glimpse and Hoppy's reply. KH less than one. Not good. You need to add some baking soda. Even with DIY CO2, you may be looking at a possible pH crash. Especially since you are at 6pH. Anything less than 3 KH can be close to a buffer breaking point. A pH crash can easily kill all the fish and especially the shrimp. So I would add at least a half teaspoon to one full teaspoon of baking soda, then test later tommorrow and see if you can get that KH and pH up a bit to say 3 to 4 KH and pH of 6.4 to 6.5 to play it safe. And I don't completely trust the tests that much, unless they are Lamotte or such.
I have super soft water down the road from you. Like near zero GH and KH out of my well's tap. I have to add around 1.5 to 2 teaspoons of baking soda to 50 gal change water to raise up my KH/pH ( I prep it for my tank). I also add 15.9 grams of calcium chloride and ~6.7 grams of epsom salts to raise the GH up to 4. You can find out a lot of this stuff on Rex Grigg's website: http://rexgrigg.com/index.htm

Also, your Amano's will go ape over Hikari algae wafers or any type of algae grazing wafer (for corys and such). Or mine love Kent Platinum Tropical Extreme pellets. I bought that for my fish, but the Amanos go nuts for it.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks. I had read Rex's pages a few times before I started this adventure, and was worried about the KH and a possible pH crash. I didn't mention in this thread (I think it's in the other thread with my journal) that I had added a piece of "tuffa" rock (sold at Big Al's) that is actually a piece of aragonite formed from lithified coral into the tank in hopes of having a permanent buffer. I also added a 1/2 teaspoon of Baking Soda on Sunday.

After I read you post, I reread the KH and GH and now I have a GH of 4 (up from 3) but KH is still <1. So I added a teaspoon of baking soda. I will test the water again tomorrow and report back.

Thanks for all the advice so far. I am still learning, so input is most welcome.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Good job. That higher KH will also increase the amount of dissolved CO2 in the tank so your plants will grow faster with the benefit of less algae. I use crushed coral in my filter to add a natural GH/KH buffer. Good luck. bob


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Oh yeah, on the wafer thing, I tried that too, thinking maybe they weren't getting enough to eat in a new tank. I don't have Hikari, but I do have HBH veggie wafers. I put one in the tank, but sadly, the shrimps never went over there. The Otos loved it though. All 5 of them hovered around that wafer for a whole day until it was gone. Now there's nothing to show for it, but the plump bellies of the Otos.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

No worry, they will get enough and will find it, even if a little piece here or there. Try feeding at night. Shrimp are very active at night and a white moonlight is sweet to watch their movements. I often see my biggest Amanos cart off a whole wafer to hoard and attempt to eat by themselves. That is pretty comical in itself. On the other hand, we really want them to focus on algae. But there is no way to stop them from eating flake, pellets, or wafers, which they seem to prefer, IME. Also, I think I put the gram weights in backward a few posts back for calcium and mg (epsom salts). I fixed it, but will double check tonight.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks for all your inputs. Being a shrimp and planted tank n00b, I have lots of questions.  No worries on those gram weights. My GH is around 4, so I am in the safe zone for GH I think. It's my KH that was suffering. I'll test when I get home tonight and post the results.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

With the one teaspoon of baking soda I added, plus that coralline rock, I now have a KH of 3 - 4, so I think things are progressing along nicely. CO2 bubbles are study now at about 1 every 5 - 6 seconds.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Good to hear. Thats about what I expected with what you added...

You might want to keep an eye on the KH for a while. Adding calcium carb materials like crushed coral, or perhaps your rock deal, doesn't change the water very fast. But they are steady 24/7 and all the sudden (it seems at the time) one is well past the target zone. I have to keep an eye on my crushed coral, which reminds me, I really do need to test my KH tonight. That's something I rarely do now that I think I finally have the amounts about right.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks. I plan on continuing with semi-weekly water testing until I get everything in a steady state, and then I'll go to weekly. I also plan on the usual weekly water changes, so hopefully that will smooth things out. First one to be done this weekend.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

So I did a 25% water change last night with "aged" tap water (I don't normally used dechlorinators). Readings after water change:
pH=6.5
ammonia=0
nitrate=10
KH~1 again
So I added one teaspoon of baking soda, and did my weekly dose of Kent Freshwater plant supplement. CO2 is bubbling at about 8 BPM.

This morning, I woke up to find 2 dead shrimp. They appear to be the originals, which have been hiding behind the heater a lot. The big one (maybe female), which was a replacement is still fine.

After the water change, they were swimming around the tank, just like the fish, so I thought they were happy with the water change. The fishes' colours were more vibrant, as they usual are after a water change.

The only things I can think of which may have caused the deaths are:
1) Flora Base - incompatible with the shrimp? The water change stirred up the substrate a bit
2) Water change dropped the temp of the tank about 3 degrees (my holding tank is unheated)
3) Added the whole teaspoon (actually about 3/4) of baking soda all at once. Too much too fast?

Other than that, I have no idea. I don't think I'll be replacing them. I'm very disappointed, since they are really the only casualties I have had. One small red rainbow died a couple of days back, but I suspect it was weak specimen, as all the other fish are doing great, with vibrant colours and eating well.

I'll keep this one big Amano and see what happens (dunno what happened to the other two, I've never seen more than 3 at a time).


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

So does anyone think that it could have been the Flora Base? Are all the Amano Shrimp owners out there running gravel substrates (at least at the surface)? The LFS has them on a gravel bed.


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## cbennett (Oct 20, 2005)

i have a gravel + laterite tank with shrimp, and a 100% fluorite tank with shrimp. Amanos fine in both. My temps are usually 77-85°F and KH between 2-4 dKH. I have added nearly a teaspoon of baking soda at one time with no problems. I have pressurized CO2 now but have had DIY for a long time. I don't see anything in your setup that would cause the shrimp deaths. What about copper? Have you used copper-based fish medicine/algaecides in your tank? There may be enough copper residues left in the tank to kill your shrimp. That's the only thing I can think of. My shrimp are also pretty boring during the day, it's only at night they get really active.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Hmmmm....the only thing I can think of is that I have copper piping in the tank. Shoot, I wonder if that's it. Maybe I should have run the water for a few minutes prior to filling up the holding tank for aging the water.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Usually shrimp that fly around after a water change do that because the water is a bit different in KH and GH and pH, at least that has been my observation. Mine will fling around alot at night, but not that much at all during the day. And if I can really match the water parms of the prep tank to the fish tank, mine act like nothing has happened. They definately are more sensitive to changes than fish are, but I don't see anything that you did wrong. You aged the water and such. Are you dosing anything for the calcium and adding epsom salt for the soft water? You might have gotten some weak shrimp, but that seems a stretch too. Who knows. Don't give up on the Amanos, you'll figure it out. Goodluck. bob 

Edit after I reread your earlier post: Maybe try everything you can to match the water... temperature, GH,KH and pH. So maybe pop for a smallish heater for your prep water. Its good you are prepping the water, BTW!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks for the encouragement, Bob. I'll definitely be trying the shrimp again, but for now, I am going to try to get the plants going well, and then maybe in a while, I'll introduce the shrimps again. I guess it's like anything that you're trying for the first time. If you get it right, you got lucky...if not, then you try again.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Another mystery solved. My wife found one of our cats playing with something on the floor this morning. It was a dried shrimp. So I guess I didn't make the tank escape proof enough.  That's probably where the missing shrimp are now....gone to shrimp heaven on my living room floor.


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