# German Blue Ram fry (Well, he ate them)



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

A week ago Sunday I got a pair of German Blue Rams. Two days later they spawned. Given everything I’ve read on the internet about them, I figured they’d eat the eggs or otherwise fail to parent (almost every site I read, including posts here on TPT, state that you have to remove the eggs and artificially hatch and raise them if you want any hope of survival). 

Well, the eggs disappeared right about Thursday or Friday, and I figured, yep, the parents ate them. Well, NO, cause suddenly as of last night the male is surrounded by a cloud of fry! Not a huge cloud (maybe 30 or so), but still a lot for me to manage growing out. The dad is doing his job like trooper. He patrols the tank and rounds up stragglers. He guards the cluster in the hole he puts them in at night. So we’ll see how things go from here. I fed them some baby shrimp powder last night and put some brine shrimp eggs in to hatch (should be fast given that we’re having a heat wave). 

Anyone have any advice or experience? Should I set up a separate grow out tank for them? If they spawn every month like people say they can, I'm going to be overrun, LOL!


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## Mostlydave (Jan 12, 2012)

I have 7 in a 40 gallon, I've had eggs but I've had them get to fry, I'm jealous! I did do a lot of reading and it seems like if you want to raise the fry you'll eventually have to move them anyway. If it were me I would setup a grow out tank and use a turkey baser to remove half of the fry and leave the other half with the parents and see what happens. I'm no expert and I'm not sure if removing some of the fry would cause the parents to stress and eat the rest or not.

for food I would get a starter of microworms, they're really easy to maintain and should be small enough for the fry.


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## gt turbo (Sep 13, 2012)

If the tank with the fry only contain the parents, I'd say to leave them all for now. If not I would suggest moving them all, parents included for atleast 6 weeks or so.

Feed live food, I've been using freshly hatched brine shrimp. I would also suggest regular 20% water changes. 

I had a set going for a little over a week and they were doing well but I had to plan and execute a baby shower for my lovely wife and i didn't get to feed them for 2 days. They died from starvation. I was really disappointed but given the track record of my pair, I expect another spawn shortly.

This time i'll also be using the Repashy "Spawn and Grow" to allow them to feed basically all day at their will.

Best of luck you.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks! I've been feeding powdered baby shrimp food and BBS (boy, hatching those out on a regular basis gets to be WORK). The babies are growing and appear to be doing well. The dad is doing a great job. He's SUPER diligent. I'm going to set up one of my empty 10G as a grow out tank. I can move them up to a 20G-L or a 40G as they get bigger. 

This is them last night:


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

They're 3 weeks old today and have begun to look more like little fish than fry. Still eating like pigs. Dad is still trying to keep them rounded up, but they seem to be losing intrest in staying tightly schooled. I'll try to get a pic tonight.


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## Mostlydave (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm still jealous, Mine had eggs and were protecting them since last time I posted. I even had wigglers one morning but that night they were gone  Awesome that you got a pair that will raise there young!!


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Bummer, Mostlydave! I'm kind of shocked at my results given the stories I hear from so many other people. Luck of the draw, I guess. Maybe it's because you have multiple pairs in the tank or something? Have you tried isolating one pair to see if you get different results?


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

My truly terrible photo skills contine ...


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

female always ate the fries after couple of days later, male doesn't seem to eat them. 

congrats on the fries, keep us update on their growth.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Maybe my luck is entirely based on the death of my female then! The first day I saw the cloud of fry, the dad kept chasing her away. The next morning I found her dead for no reason I could discern. Lots of people around the net said death in the days after spawning wasn't all that uncommon though, so aside from keeping an eye on the dad for signs of illness, I didn't worry too much about it. Dad still seems healthy weeks later and the fry are doing well.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Slightly better pic


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## matt13 (Jul 17, 2012)

Your truly are a lucky breeder! There is nothing more rewarding than to see a pair of fish raising and herding their own fry around the tank. There is also nothing more frustrating than to see spawn after spawn eaten by their parents! We have been breeding rams for years and have NEVER had a pair successfully raise their young. Out of the hundreds of spawns we've had, only one pair actually raised their eggs to the "wiggler" stage, then promptly ate them overnight. Usually, they will last 24 hours or so, then one of the parents will eat them! We have tried everything from group spawnings (multiple pairs in a single tank) to individual pairs in large planted tanks, and small planted tanks, but still no luck

You must have a pretty heavily planted tank for the fry to have been able to feed themselves for the first few days after free-swimming. The critical point is getting them past day 3 of free-swimming. After that, they are usually large enough to be able to eat newly hatched brine shrimp.

It's not uncommon at all to have the male chase/kill the female after spawning. That's why it's real important to have the in a planted tank, or have enough hiding places for the female to go after spawning. The male becomes extremely territorial, even with the female that he has just spawned with. If she doesn't have somewhere to hide, he will chase her incessantly, eventually cornering her and killing her.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for the info, matt13. I feel bad for not knowing that. I would have taken her out if I'd known I needed to. *sigh* I will remember it for the future though!!! I hope to keep some of the fry in a larger tank. 

The tank was originally designed for shrimp (my BKK disaster, they all died over a five month period for no reason I could ever discern). So the tank has ADA Aquasoil, lots of mosses, floating plants and a big chunk of needle leaf java fern. As soon as I realized I had free swimmers I began dosing the tank with the baby shrimp food I had on hand. I used that for the first three days until the BBS hatched. And I kept using it along with the BBS until last week when I switched to powdered earthworm. I think they're big enough that I'm going to start trying frozen daphnia. 

The fry are 4 weeks old today and really starting to look like fish. They have completely stopped schooling and the dad has given up herding them (though he still aggressively challenges anything that intrudes into the tank, like my hand to trim plants or the BBS net when I feed them).


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## njmomie (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi Betta Maniac, are your blue ram in a species only tank? I have two pairs in a community tank with 3 cories, a few guppies and tetras. Though one pair has spawned three times in the past three weeks, the eggs have disappeared each time on day three. I think I may have to remove the "community" if I hope to get any fry out of this pair. Also, my female lay the eggs and just leaves, the male stays to watch the eggs.


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## Drowki (May 8, 2012)

I am very jealous, mine made it a week with the parents before gobble gobble said the father..


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

njmomie said:


> Hi Betta Maniac, are your blue ram in a species only tank?


Yes. I bought a pair and put them into a 17G by themselves.



njmomie said:


> Though one pair has spawned three times in the past three weeks, the eggs have disappeared each time on day three.


Day 3 is about when the eggs hatch into "wigglers". I wish had actual advice to give you, but my brood was pure, dumb luck.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Drowki said:


> I am very jealous, mine made it a week with the parents before gobble gobble said the father..


Oh, that sucks! I wonder why? At that point they're free swimming and he should be herding and guarding them.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Today the larger fry began tearing into the live black worms I feed the adult. They just went to town on them. Guess I'll need to increase the number of those I drop in the tank at feeding time.


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## reefboy1 (Sep 11, 2009)

Great progress. More pics!


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

More of my terrible pics, LOL! There will be more on Thursday or Friday when they're 5 weeks old.


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## KaryPerry (Sep 19, 2012)

Just found this thread.  Are they still alive? My fry are 7 days old now. Not swimming too much. I would love to read more updates if you have them!


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

They're five weeks old today and really starting to look like FISH! I'm still feeding BBS and earthworm powder, but have also started to feed frozen daphnia which they seem to really like. 

One thing that is very interesting is the range of sizes among the fry. The largest ones are at least 4x as big as a the smallest ones. 

In this shot you can actually SEE the fry: 









And here's a shot of dad, who I just think is beautiful:


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## KaryPerry (Sep 19, 2012)

Nice! He is beautiful!


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

Let us know when they need a home! I think I can find a place for a 20 L or a 29 around here somewhere for a pair of them!


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## VJM (Feb 9, 2013)

They even look likem little rams now! Congrats! How often are you feeding?


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm feeding at least twice a day, but often three times: before I go to work, when I get home, right before the lights go out. I actually changed the schedule of the lights (turning them off mid-day) to accommodate that third feed.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Oceangirl said:


> Let us know when they need a home! I think I can find a place for a 20 L or a 29 around here somewhere for a pair of them!


I'll have to look into shipping supplies. It's not something I've ever done before. I was honestly planning on just trading them with my LFS, but if people want to pay for shipping, I can certainly send some out (summer shipping might be a problem though).


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

KaryPerry said:


> Nice! He is beautiful!


He's exceptionally colorful. The female was too. I'm really sorry to have lost her. I'm going to have to look into getting another one and seeing if they'll bond.


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## Neevie (Apr 26, 2013)

I would love a pair of them for my 30g  I miss having rams


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## LICfish (Oct 9, 2010)

They look so great! My fry just got eaten by my stupid tetras the other day. I gotta move out the tetras to my 12 gallon.


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## matt13 (Jul 17, 2012)

njmomie- If you are serious about trying to raise the fry, then you will absolutely have to remove the "community" from the community aquarium. The parents lack the size to fight off most "uninvited dinner guests." Also, snails and Corys will devour them given the chance. As far as parenting....most of the time, the male will drive the female away after spawning and will guard the eggs himself. They will alternate duties, usually when the male goes off to eat or chase away an intruder, but he will always return. It's also very common to have the parents eat the eggs after a day or two, or just after they hatch.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

It's so funny how you can become hooked on something so quickly. I had no real intention of breeding rams. I just wanted a pair of pretty fish for my empty tank. But I've really enjoyed the process. So much so, that I'm thinking about setting up my spare 40G Breeder tank so I can keep some of the spawn.


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## matt13 (Jul 17, 2012)

I like to say that we are victims of our own success. My son and I started breeding rams about 6 years ago just as a hobby. I have always liked rams and thought it would be fun to try. We started off with 6 German Blue Rams in a 10 gallon tank. Within a year, we were up to 20 tanks, and now we have about 70 tanks, most of them devoted to Rams! My wife finally threw us out of the house , so we did what any reasonable fish-lover would do.....we built a new garage just for the fish!


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## redsea (Jan 19, 2013)

Betta Maniac said:


> They're five weeks old today and really starting to look like FISH! I'm still feeding BBS and earthworm powder, but have also started to feed frozen daphnia which they seem to really like.
> 
> One thing that is very interesting is the range of sizes among the fry. The largest ones are at least 4x as big as a the smallest ones.
> 
> ...


Cute babies, and Dad looks fantastic!  I can't wait to get my GBR (once my tank is more established).


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I noticed last night (and you can just see it in the top pic of the fry from yesterday) that they now have little black stripes on their fins!


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## JohnE RottN (May 29, 2013)

well my Gbr had there first spawn today . im alil concerned that the male didnt get the job done ... do these eggs looked fertilized


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

If the eggs aren't eaten, you'll know in about 3 days when they hatch.


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## JohnE RottN (May 29, 2013)

I Checked my tank after work today and the eggs were gone. i Assume they were eatin but why?


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## Dan's85 (Mar 18, 2013)

That's a common problem with rams. Most of the captive bred fish that are in the hobby aren't very good parents. Sometimes after a few spawns they start to get the hang of it and are able to rear fry, but most of the time they just eat the eggs. If you want to increase you chances, remove the eggs and put them in a different tank and rear the fry yourself.


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

question: My GBRs gave me eggs and I hatched them in a marina breeder box, most didn't make it past day 2, but there are some that are
still sitting on the bottom, and when I tap the box they pop and swim then back down again.

I fed them Brine shrimp this am....my question is how do I clean up the bottom left overs without getting them sucked up? I have a few pond snails in there, but they are just making more mess cause they eat and poop! Do I just turkey baster the bottom and hope I don't get any of the babies? I want to try to keep it as clean as possible, but they are soooo 
darned hard to see.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I hear the first first days of free swimming are the hardest (once they've depleated their egg sacs). My tank has lots of moss and I dosed it with powdered baby shrimp food for the first week. 

I've never tried to rear fry in a breeder box, so I'm not sure of the best method for keeping it clean. I think most people use the baster method. You could also use a bit of tubing if you want something with a finer entry.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

JohnE RottN said:


> I Checked my tank after work today and the eggs were gone. i Assume they were eatin but why?


I thought mine had been eaten too, but then a few days later there was suddenly a cloud of fry in the tank. If the eggs hatched, the parents might move the "wigglers" around and hide them until they're free swimming.


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Just checked today and I still have 10 freeswimming babies, eating good.
:smile:


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

pinoyghost2 said:


> Just checked today and I still have 10 freeswimming babies, eating good.
> :smile:


Awesome!


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Six weeks old today, the larger ones are starting to show markings on their faces.


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## Fdsh5 (Jan 3, 2012)

Awesome! Great job so far


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Fdsh5 said:


> Awesome! Great job so far


It's been a really fun experience. I need to set up a grow out tank for them soon. catching them should prove interesting ...


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## Fdsh5 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh yeah. Every time I empty out my calico bristlenose or sterbai Cory grow out tank I have to take everything out and relax. Those little buggers are fast and I don't want to squash them. I do have a 20 long for just my electric blue long finned rams I got from matt13. There's about 10 free swimmers that are now around 2 weeks old. It just then in there so catching them won't be bad.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Mine are in a pretty heavily planted tank. I'm not comitted to getting them ALL out in one go tho. I figue I'll do it slowly over then nect month and it's ok if a few get left behind.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Seven weeks and really starting to become RAMS now:


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Getting big and bad. Three are much larger than the rest and a few are still little bitty. But most are like the ones on the left.


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## JohnE RottN (May 29, 2013)

Dude nice work!!! they look good my rams just spawned again this is there fifth spawn and to no surprise when i got home from work the eggs were gone


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## Cinbos (Dec 8, 2012)

Love this thread. Came on here to post a thread of my own and got lost ready this one, good stuff. I myself am trying the BGR breeding process. Along with Bolivian Rams. I have 2 Males, 1 Gold and 1 Normal BGR, and 4 Females BGRs. Looks that the Gold Male has paired up with one of the females and they were actually cleaning off an area possibly for spawning. Plus they have been hanging around each other the past few days.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I started transfering them to the 20G-Long grow out tank last night. They are SOOOO hard to catch!!!


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Congratulations on doing a great job of raising them! 

I hope I can be as successful with mine. I got some pairs from Matt/Mark on here and my pair GBRs have successfully hatched out some 50+ babies. I can't even start to count them, but its a lot! 

They are herding them across the tank, and try to corral them at all times, but not happening.

At night they seem to bed them down at the back of one corner of the tank, I guess that's so they can both watch each end easier. They are the only fish in the tank other than an Otto.

I have now got walter/banana worms and bbs to feed them, and so far that's working out. I will add some earthworm powder in between live
foods to get them used to eating something that doesn't wiggle!

Now if only I can get the EBRs to spawn....hmnn!

I am soooo in LOVE with these fish :biggrin:


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## redsea (Jan 19, 2013)

Congrats, they look great! I want some, lol.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I've managed to get 15 of them into the grow out tank as of yesterday. Not only are they HARD to catch, but the ones in the original tank are now hiding ALL THE TIME. I'm giong to stop trying to catch them for a week or so and hope they calm down.


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## NWGBR (Jun 26, 2013)

Best way to have a high count is to always remore the parents after they turn into free swimmers, let them do the catch and spit into the school a day later so they ether loose interest or get tired of all the chasing. Then remove the parents. Its worked best for me. Just my exp.


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## NWGBR (Jun 26, 2013)

johne rottn said:


> dude nice work!!! They look good my rams just spawned again this is there fifth spawn and to no surprise when i got home from work the eggs were gone


turn your heat up i'm set about 84-86 that helped me when i started n saw the eggs come and go. 4 months of hell. They spawn sometimes twice in a month


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## Fdsh5 (Jan 3, 2012)

I use a net and a drumstick to round up my fish. I just hold the net still and use the drumstick to guide them towards the net. Works pretty good but still requires lots of patience


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## NWGBR (Jun 26, 2013)

Fdsh5 said:


> I use a net and a drumstick to round up my fish. I just hold the net still and use the drumstick to guide them towards the net. Works pretty good but still requires lots of patience


HAHA I did the net and chop stick just yesterday to my 3 weeks old batch


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I thought all of mine had died as I didn't see them anymore....turns out about 10 of them (3 weeks old now) are happily living and growing good in the moss/plants at one side of the tank. The parents have laid another load of eggs, but this time I took them out to hatch myself, give them a break.

They are such good parents, but lose interest around 7 days of trying to keep babies in one spot, especially at night. Ive seen them wake up and frantically go searching for babies who are all over the tank! 

Im leaving the 3 week olds in the tank until I get my 30 gallon up and ready for them, then I can see if I can catch them :help: which I doubt 

Im still trying to get my Electric blues to breed, they laid eggs once, but I don't think they got fertilized, thinking of starting a tank for one pair each to see if that will make a difference as they are sharing a 20 gallon long heavily planted for now. I know they are still all alive as I see them for breakfast each morning.

Keep us posted with the pics on the babies as they grow.


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## jkpedrita (Jun 5, 2013)

Any updates?


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Sorry, I fell off the planet with work stuff and travel. The fry are now beginning to spawn in the grow out tank (found two pairs with eggs last night). I'm hosting a “first come, first served” give away this Sunday at my house. They gotta GO!!!! Will probably keep a couple of pairs for myself.


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Great job...now you know you've done it when you've managed to raise the fry to adults and get them to spawn too.

I got a surprise in my juvie tank...I have 5 youngsters that are showing some spectacular colors, and today I was able to grab a pic of one of them showing off....these are offspring of German Blue Diamond longfins that Matt and Mark breed.

here's my special one.....an EBR!
















I was told they are a cross of EBR/Golds/GBRs, but this one came out of the blue so to speak :drool: I am just thrilled with the quality of my brood.
Now some of the last babies from my male longfin are starting to show this electric blue color too....can't wait to see what's coming out of the pot with this lot (I have 20+ of them)


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Oooooooooooooooooo, those are pretty. I got rid of 30 fry over the weekend. I still have maybe 4 nice pair and a dozen greyish runts.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Aaaaaaaand, they're spawning...got to see the whole thing as they've chosen the rock at the front of the tank. So it's entirely possible I will have more to give away in a couple of months (will report in). Have given away 40 from the last spawn. Still have 3 nice pairs. The grey ones do also appear to be coloring up and blossoming as the tank becomes less crowded. Maybe I should set up the 40G breeder in my basement, LOL!


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## garloki72 (Oct 31, 2010)

Real neat! They both look great and have great color. Good luck with this spawn.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Just removed the female as I could see they were already sparring over who got to guard the eggs (and he killed the last female).


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I've noticed less dominant males tend to be very pale looking until you place them in their own tank, then they color up really nicely. You are definitely doing something right.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

He was hunkered down over his eggs this morning. Charged the glass when I passed by the tank. Guess I better put some bring shrimp eggs in the hatchery ...


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Today's report is that some of the juvies I gave away are already spawning in other people's tanks! I gave three pairs to a local teacher who has them in his classroom. It will be so cool if the kids get to watch the parents raise them!


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I have wigglers! They're hard to see, but he's keeping them in a hole in the rock. I also have two new spawns in the grow out tank. No idea how that will go since there are still 8-10 juvies in there.


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## thebuddha (Jul 16, 2012)

cool!

my eggs never make it past night 3 :icon_eek:


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Congratulations on your new spawn....get those vinegar eels ready! I could not get my freeswimmers to eat microworms or brine shrimp, so resorted (with advice from Matt) to vinegar eels....smaller than mw and last longer in the water column (they didn't seem to be able to see the mw or bbs after they ended up on the bottom)

That did the trick, once they realized these wiggly things were for eating, they ate the bbs/mw and vinegar eels without any problems.

Now they are growing out in my 35 gallon and colors are showing every day...here is a pic of my oldest pair....brother and sister from the parents I got from Matt.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

pinoyghost2 said:


> Congratulations on your new spawn....get those vinegar eels ready!


Haven't tried those. I used the powdered food for baby shrimp last time. I just noticed the pair I had put aside for someone in my 5G has ALSO spawned. Sheesh. I put a divider up in the grow out tank so the pair with big clutch has half the tank to themselves and the 5-6 others I have are confined on the other side. 

I'm tempted to get some electric blues now ... (somebody stop me!)


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

As of last night they are free swimmers. They eagerly consumed the baby shrimp food and the frozen BBS. The F1 eggs were eaten by the parents. So I clearly don't have magic fish, LOL!


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

And dad suddenly ate his fry. WTF? He was such a great dad last time, and this time he guarded the eggs and the wigglers, but about day four of free swimming they all disappered. 

Oh, well. I didn't *really* want to be in the GBR business anyway. I unloaded the last three pairs of F1s at my LFS yesterday. Still have dad and two smaller, unpaired females. I think one of the boys at the LFS might take them off my hands and I'll move on to something else, LOL!


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