# New and first shrimp tank - Shrimp dying?



## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

The tank *does not* need KH in it. 

Do you know if the tank TDS was close to the acclimating water TDS?


If you purchased adult shrimp, they might not be doing quite as well as if you had purchased juvenile shrimp.


Bacter AE is fine as long as it's not overdosed. Do you have other foods for them as well?


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

Thanks for replying.

Eight of the 16 shrimp were about 1/2 inch. The other eight were smaller.

The TDS of the acclimating water was about 200. The tank water was a little more than 180.

I did feed a small amount (4mm pellet) of Shrimp King Complete in a glass dish in the evening and siphoned it out the next morning. Only 1 shrimp fed on it (that I could see during awake hours). The shrimp tended to stay put in the back of the tank.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

If the tank has it's own biofilm, they really wont need to eat all that much. I don't see anything that really jumps out and says that there's a definite issue. Were there any failed molts by any chance?


Hopefully you only have a few losses and the rest survive.


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

I saw two out swimming around today.
Its a young tank and has some biofilm.
Do the tanks need to 'age' awhile before starting to put shrimp in them?

Maybe others have had similar experiences.

Thanks again!


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

They don't need to age, but it does help to have a mature tank.


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## [email protected] (Jan 8, 2010)

I had similar issues . I let my last tank age for 2+ months before adding any shrimp . I started with 10 prl's 6 months later I have more than I can count .


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

Good info. There is still hope. I have been wanting to start a shrimp tank for many years after seeing a tank (Eheim Lifestyle 9 gal) at a LFS. That and all the successful and not so successful stories in this forum.

I have a second tank (16 gal rimless cube) ready to go for some neo shrimip, but I am going to wait until I have success with the first one.

I will still dose Bater AE every other day - very small dose (?). I may or may not do a 10% water change. Still only see two shrimp (out of 16) but more may be hiding.

Thanks all!


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## vigilanterepoman (Mar 16, 2018)

Shrimpalot56 said:


> Other water Parameters: No CO2, Temp 74, Ammonia 0 (two test kits), nitrite 0, nitrate 10 (two test kits)


I can't remember where but I heard that these shrimp are most comfortable at 76 degrees, but 2 degrees of range is still really good. There isn't any copper or other hard metals that could be affecting the shrimp in your tank, is there?


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

vigilanterepoman said:


> I can't remember where but I heard that these shrimp are most comfortable at 76 degrees, but 2 degrees of range is still really good. There isn't any copper or other hard metals that could be affecting the shrimp in your tank, is there?


I read that the Caridinas like cooler temps (vs the neo shrimp). I could go lower or higher. No copper that I know of. Using shrimp food and the aquarium is all glass.
I did see 5 shrimp this morning. Good news!


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## vigilanterepoman (Mar 16, 2018)

Shrimpalot56 said:


> I did see 5 shrimp this morning. Good news!


Congrats! Hopefully they stay around this time :smile2:


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## Stokely (Jan 9, 2015)

I have a new tank with the same issue. I had four survivors out of seven, then I bought three more to try to even out the males/females...and now I'm down to three total. It is very frustrating, when neither my tests nor the fish store's show anything wrong with my water. I bought a drip acclimator for the second batch. 

I did do some careful re-scaping not long after I got the second batch (mainly to simplify and to plant a bit, I had a large jumble of stuff in there) and I wonder if that caused stress despite my care. I also am suspicious of long-shot things like the dragonstone, petco sand I bought and even new manzanita wood (when new it grows a white film, this I think is pretty normal)...basically grasping at straws. I'll leave the tank alone for a while and maybe try a few more after that if I don't have a pair...


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## KleineVampir (Aug 29, 2017)

That light looks awfully bright. And you need to put snails in your tank! Keep some medicine on hand. I use paraguard but there is probably something better for shrimp. I throw in some paraguard once a week to keep disease down. Tigers are not a good beginner shrimp to my knowledge. You may want to just keep some snails in there for a while until the tank is matured properly. I like mystery snails myself! Good luck! 

Edit: Especially for shrimp like tigers (but any dwarf shrimp really), you need at least a 20 gallon tank. Btw, your tank is beautiful, so I hate to say that. I'd maybe put some resilient little nano fish in that tank and get a 20 gallon long for your shrimp tank. And don't forget the snails! :wink2:


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

Stokely said:


> I have a new tank with the same issue. I had four survivors out of seven, then I bought three more to try to even out the males/females...and now I'm down to three total. It is very frustrating, when neither my tests nor the fish store's show anything wrong with my water. I bought a drip acclimator for the second batch.
> 
> I did do some careful re-scaping not long after I got the second batch (mainly to simplify and to plant a bit, I had a large jumble of stuff in there) and I wonder if that caused stress despite my care. I also am suspicious of long-shot things like the dragonstone, petco sand I bought and even new manzanita wood (when new it grows a white film, this I think is pretty normal)...basically grasping at straws. I'll leave the tank alone for a while and maybe try a few more after that if I don't have a pair...


Thanks Stokely, 
I agree it is frustrating when you think you have all the bases covered and they still die. I had 7 shrimp (couple more than I thought) on Saturday, and did a 10% water change (less than a gallon). I was very careful with the replacement water (temp, pH, TDS)] and dripped the water in over a several hours). The next day, I only had 2 remaining shrimp. I don't think the water change in itself is responsible but I think it added to the stress the shrimp were under. So for now, no changes.

It's good to know that I am not the only one with difficulties - although I don't want anyone to be having these kind of issues. Good luck going forward!


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

KleineVampir said:


> That light looks awfully bright. And you need to put snails in your tank! Keep some medicine on hand. I use paraguard but there is probably something better for shrimp. I throw in some paraguard once a week to keep disease down. Tigers are not a good beginner shrimp to my knowledge. You may want to just keep some snails in there for a while until the tank is matured properly. I like mystery snails myself! Good luck!
> 
> Edit: Especially for shrimp like tigers (but any dwarf shrimp really), you need at least a 20 gallon tank. Btw, your tank is beautiful, so I hate to say that. I'd maybe put some resilient little nano fish in that tank and get a 20 gallon long for your shrimp tank. And don't forget the snails! :wink2:


KV, 
You hit on a couple of points I was thinking about.
1. I think the light might be two bright. I might try to find one that is smaller and less bright
2. I will have to research the paragurard (or similar treatment). I don't want them stressed more by the treatment.
3. I was thinking about putting in one or two mystery snails but didn't on two accounts. One, I only have 1 inch space above the water line ( I have only 12.9 inches to work with - currently I only have 8 or 9 inches water depth). Second, I hear they are good escape artists. I don't have a lid on the tank. I hoping to be setting up a 16.1 inch tank for some neo shrimp (learning my lessons with this tank). I will be needing some advice on putting some mystery snails in the new tank to see if is feasible.

Thanks on the compliment on the tank and for the advice. If the 10 gallon doesn't work out, I may try some neo fish (and snails?). Or replace the substrate and make it into a neo shrimp tank (and snails?).


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

I have the same light (a 16" Finnex FugeRay Planted+ Aquarium LED Light) on my Fluval Spec V (that's a 5 gallon tank).
I'd read it was a good choice for a planted Fluval Spec V and I assembled this tank with the main goal of keeping my first shrimp.
I'd be surprised to find this light was too bright. My shrimp are growing like crazy and I have an even longer light period than you.
The consensus I found seemed to be that once you have a generation survive you'll be good to go: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/1244409-killer-2.html.
If your water is fine and bacteria are established I'd be agreeing with KV about choosing a more "beginner shrimp".
I'm a beginner for sure, but I just wanted to add your light seems fine for my red Sakura shrimp purchased from a pal here on this forum.
Other notes:
I used pond/bladder snails to help establish the tank.
I had two tanks set up a 5g and a 2.5g and put 10 shrimp in one and 10 in the other. All the shrimp crowded the surface in the 2.5g and realized I had some nitrites or ammonia and quickly moved them to the 5g.
After a day or two I had 10 of the 20 shrimps remaining. I'm not sure if the 10 that died were all from the 2.5g, but in any case the other 10 are alive and thriving.
They were definitely tiny juveniles and ate mostly Bacter AE or the biofilm created. Now that they are larger they are eating other products, but not in the beginning.
I've read folks talking about rare water changes in their shrimp tanks so I've been doing a weekly 10-20% water change weekly, but I'm not sure even that is necessary.
I'd bet that if you put 20 juvenile RCS in there you'd have better luck.


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

I almost got a Fluval. Sweet!
Pond/Bladder snails - haven't heard about those. Do they get out of control?
I think you are right - once I get some established, I will be good. I may try a different seller.
I would like some Red Cherries in the tank but it is a bit on the acidic/soft side. I will be setting up a second tank for Reds.
Shrimp keeping is definitely an art.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Oh pond snails are just the pest snails that most everybody has.
Some folks don't mind and some folks do mind.
I've never minded them in my main planted tank for the last ten years.
I'd just read how they can help establish a tank and are ok with shrimp.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...ates/1133010-why-keep-snails-shrimp-tank.html


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)




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## KleineVampir (Aug 29, 2017)

Shrimpalot56 said:


> KV,
> You hit on a couple of points I was thinking about.
> 1. I think the light might be two bright. I might try to find one that is smaller and less bright
> 2. I will have to research the paragurard (or similar treatment). I don't want them stressed more by the treatment.
> ...


Yeah about the light: I figure shrimp are used to sifting through debris at the bottom of rivers. If the light is too bright, it simulates being in really shallow water. I think it makes them feel vulnerable. About paraguard: I guess you could say I've had success with it even though it isn't recommended for shrimp. I've gone from 35 shrimp to about 100 in 8 months! And that's dosing paraguard once a week. Heck considering that, maybe I'll just stick with the paraguard! That said I also always have an indian almond leaf sitting in there. Shrimp need that too. The leaf helps their immune system somehow, and their immune system being strong is important in general.

About mystery snails: I love 'em! They're cool and big. They have both lungs and gills, meaning they are amphibious and can breathe in air and water. They produce tons of waste, which increases your beneficial bacteria that you need for a good nitrogen cycle. I'm still a little new with the snails themselves but I've seen a drastic decrease of shrimp deaths after introducing the snails. I'm talking from 2 dead a week down to 2 dead a month. Something like that. I'd say before you get shrimp, put those snails in there for a while. They should be able to cycle your tank well. But you bring up a good point. You have a rimless and topless tank...while I totally understand the urge to have that, (it looks great!) I personally have a glass lid on my tank. It keeps evaporation down drastically, which means less TDS increase between water changes. But yeah my lid is mostly to keep my snails in. They appear to want to stay underwater 99% of the time, and I'm guessing that other 1% is for breeding purposes only and I have not gotten them to lay a clutch yet. Maybe a fully aquatic snail would be better for you but I am not a snail expert so I can't give you a recommendation. That said, I think fish produce enough waste without needing snails.

If I were you I'd probably just put some nano fish in that tank and set up a bigger shrimp tank of at least 20 gallons. Especially if you are wanting to keep more exotic shrimp. I recommend a matton filter for the shrimp tank too. I have a sponge filter but it is very weak and I have to do a lot of water changes as a result. It's not pretty, but I believe it is the best for shrimp. If you want some shrimp in that planted tank, maybe try amanos. They won't breed but they can live a very long time, like 4-6 years. They're tougher and they should be able to withstand the smaller tank size and so forth. Good luck! I hope you update us with the populated tank!


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

Update: 
Bad news: This last Wednesday I received 35 Tangerine Tigers. Unfortunately, due to a communication error on the side of the seller, the shrimp were left outside in weather ranging from middle 20's in the morning (they arrived at 8:45) to low-40's when I got home at 4:00 PM. The water was 57 degrees. 12+ shrimp were DOA. I did a slow (4 1/2 hour) dip-accimation and found a way to slowing bring the temperature up to about 72 degrees (I keep my tank about 73.5 degrees). I introduced the shrimp to the tank and they were acting 'normal'. I turned off the lights and didn't feed them until evening the next day. When I returned home another 4 had died and the next day another 2 had died (these are the ones I know about). *I am guessing that I have about 15+ TT left*. I still haven't heard back from the seller regarding this incident.

Good news: The remaining TT seem to be doing well. They are active and visible. I even see several of my original Tigers moving about. So, I think the tank is maturing. I went an got 2 Amano shrimp from the LFS yesterday and they have been busy foraging. I still have many questions regarding shrimp feeding, plant care, algae and such - but I will save those questions for later postings/threads. 

Side note: Somewhere along the line, it looks I received a blue (black?) tiger. Very beautiful. Still young but great color (blue, translucent body) and markings (stripes).

Thanks to all who have commented and offered suggestions. Also thanks for the support.

P.S. I like the primer on the pond/bladder snails!


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## KleineVampir (Aug 29, 2017)

Shrimpalot56 said:


> Update:
> Bad news: This last Wednesday I received 35 Tangerine Tigers. Unfortunately, due to a communication error on the side of the seller, the shrimp were left outside in weather ranging from middle 20's in the morning (they arrived at 8:45) to low-40's when I got home at 4:00 PM. The water was 57 degrees. 12+ shrimp were DOA. I did a slow (4 1/2 hour) dip-accimation and found a way to slowing bring the temperature up to about 72 degrees (I keep my tank about 73.5 degrees). I introduced the shrimp to the tank and they were acting 'normal'. I turned off the lights and didn't feed them until evening the next day. When I returned home another 4 had died and the next day another 2 had died (these are the ones I know about). *I am guessing that I have about 15+ TT left*. I still haven't heard back from the seller regarding this incident.
> 
> Good news: The remaining TT seem to be doing well. They are active and visible. I even see several of my original Tigers moving about. So, I think the tank is maturing. I went an got 2 Amano shrimp from the LFS yesterday and they have been busy foraging. I still have many questions regarding shrimp feeding, plant care, algae and such - but I will save those questions for later postings/threads.
> ...


That...is bad. Quite frankly, you should not have ordered those shrimp. It would be one thing if you were an expert shrimp keeper but if you don't know how to keep cherries alive then I don't think you should be ordering tangerine tigers.

The good news is that your remaining tigers will be relatively tough compared to the ones that died, so if they can survive the extreme cold, hopefully they can survive in your tank as well...but now we're talking about long term instead of short term and different potential problems aside from the cold. Out of consideration for your remaining tigers, I'll briefly tell you how I take care of my cherries:

30 percent water change a week (but probably only because my filter is a bit weak.
I have a sponge filter that is safe for the baby shrimp and I guess I recommend it since it oxygenates the water, generates some flow, and filters to some extent!
20 gallon tank
1 clump of java moss, 1 decently big java fern, some other crypto plant, 1 small piece of malaysian driftwood
10 mineral balls specifically made to help shrimp molt
thermometer suction-cupped inside the water so I can tell the temperature
Dosing paraguard once a week, the recommended dose per the tank size
Always at least one Indian almond leaf decomposing, I leave the stems in.
I feed once every other day. Although I have 100 shrimp and 10 big snails, I only feed 3 pellets of shrimp king complete, and 3 pellets of shrimp king snail food (aka snail stixx as they call them.)
This food is very important. I highly recommend feeding your shrimp the best quality food, and Shrimp King has been found to be the best by myself and another major importer that I know.
While you're at it, get them powdered food to occasionally feed as well. Bacter AE is reputed to be the best, though I have been using magic powder from discobee.

Good luck, man! For the sake of your tigers, I hope you can pull them through!


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

I think the stress from shipping was the main culprit. I was notified Wednesday afternoon that the order had shipped - but when I checked the tracking number, I discovered they had been delivered that morning - :
As I mentioned in my first post, I wish I would have started with Cherry Shrimp.

I think I have followed most of the points you have below [what, no snails? ]

30 percent water change a week (but probably only because my filter is a bit weak. (plan on doing 10% per week - I have good filtration)
I have a sponge filter that is safe for the baby shrimp and I guess I recommend it since it oxygenates the water, generates some flow, and filters to some extent!
20 gallon tank (( I started with using a sponge filter but didn't like the sound of the air pump - tank is in family room).
1 clump of java moss, 1 decently big java fern, some other crypto plant, 1 small piece of malaysian driftwood (xmas moss, flame moss, had Java Fern but replaced with more anubias)
10 mineral balls specifically made to help shrimp molt (I have white mineral stones but have'nt used them - no clear evidence they work ???).
thermometer suction-cupped inside the water so I can tell the temperature (( I have thermomter with lead in the water - 75.3 degrees constant).
Dosing paraguard once a week, the recommended dose per the tank size (still thinking about this one - need to research more)
Always at least one Indian almond leaf decomposing, I leave the stems in. (I have IAL but hanging from a vegetable clip ???)
I feed once every other day. Although I have 100 shrimp and 10 big snails, I only feed 3 pellets of shrimp king complete, and 3 pellets of shrimp king snail food (aka snail stixx as they call them.) This food is very important. I highly recommend feeding your shrimp the best quality food, and Shrimp King has been found to be the best by myself and another major importer that I know. While you're at it, get them powdered food to occasionally feed as well. Bacter AE is reputed to be the best, though I have been using magic powder from discobee.
Feeding every other day - Shrimp King (complete or 4 Leaf), Using Bacter AE twice a week (small amount), feeding powered baby food (small amount twice a week), Mulberry Leaves (replace every several days). Want to try blanched vegatables. Note: the shrimp haven't taken an interest in the Shrimp King food yet (I place food in glass dish)

This will all help with my next tank (Cherry Shrimp).
Again, thanks for the advice!


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## KleineVampir (Aug 29, 2017)

Shrimpalot56 said:


> I think the stress from shipping was the main culprit. I was notified Wednesday afternoon that the order had shipped - but when I checked the tracking number, I discovered they had been delivered that morning - :
> As I mentioned in my first post, I wish I would have started with Cherry Shrimp.
> 
> I think I have followed most of the points you have below [what, no snails? ]
> ...


I forgot to mention the temperature... 75 is a little on the warm side but it's ok. Especially if it's constant. Sounds like you already have good feeding going on. I personally think the mineral balls or stones help! I've never seen any molting problems since putting in the mineral balls. I'd say at least throw 1 of your stones in there! If they can't molt, they'll die!

I will say I haven't had any success getting them to feed out of a dish. You may want to just drop the pellets in the tank even though it's messy. As long as you aren't overfeeding, I think it's ok. I'd throw the leaf in the tank too. No need to hang it in any particular way. Heck mine is blown up against the back of the tank from a water change and they still love it! Shrimp really just don't give a hoot about anything, which is part of what I love about them! That said I think they kind of appreciate things being a natural way.

And right, snails. I know almost for sure they help a ton! Shrimp do not produce enough waste to generate the right amount of beneficial bacteria for their own good! Snails are perfect because they don't stress the shrimp out but they still keep your bioload up. I know I keep saying snails but I really think it's that important! Just grab some at your lfs. I think nerites would look good in your tank, but sadly I don't think they breed in freshwater. That can be a good thing though if you don't want too many anyways.

Anyways, I'm glad to help but in return I want some updates on these tigers! roud:


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## Shrimpalot56 (Mar 31, 2018)

KleineVampir said:


> I forgot to mention the temperature... 75 is a little on the warm side but it's ok. Especially if it's constant. Sounds like you already have good feeding going on. I personally think the mineral balls or stones help! I've never seen any molting problems since putting in the mineral balls. I'd say at least throw 1 of your stones in there! If they can't molt, they'll die!


Sorry, typo! 75.3 should be 73.5 (heater set at 74 degrees). Go cooler? Heater works in 2 degree increments.

So far, shrimp are doing well.


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## KleineVampir (Aug 29, 2017)

Shrimpalot56 said:


> Sorry, typo! 75.3 should be 73.5 (heater set at 74 degrees). Go cooler? Heater works in 2 degree increments.
> 
> So far, shrimp are doing well.


No, 73.5 is perfect! Keep it there. Got snails?


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Very nice Zoidburg.
Thank you!
My snails never get very big at all so I am assuming I have bladder snails.
Are bladder and pond snails behaviorally different?
Are you cool with either or both in your shrimp tanks?



Zoidburg said:


>


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I've never had pond snails.... so wouldn't know! I'm fine with the bladder snails as long as there aren't too many... which I've got a population going in one tank I need to thin out...


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