# If it was yours what would you do



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Blasting grit or pool filter sand. If you're planning on dosing the water column, then don't worry about putting anything under the substrate.


----------



## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

yup black diamond blasting sand or pool filter sand would be the cheapest options. soil+sand cap might be cheaper if you wanna use the soil in your yard.

as someone who use red clay (amaco mexican pottery clay to be specific) in his tanks before, i suggest NOT using it if you're the type that likes to change stuff around or if you ever plan to tear down the tank. 

if you want to use soil maybe consider adding a soil retainer between the soil and your cap, it'll reduce the amount of dirt you pull up when you have to replant.


----------



## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Don't use dark substrate with discus. It will not show off their colors as well. I had black diamond with my discus earlier on and switched to light pool filter sand. Night and day difference!
Plain ole filter sand for about $12 is good BUT this stuff is amazing!

AquaQuartz Silica Sand for Sale ? Pool Supplies Superstore

NO dust/rinising. The grain size is perfect and it is extremely consistent in color. There is not a single gray, brown, off color grain in it!

Here it is in my new tank 15 minutes after setup with NO washing.
The second photo is two weeks later.


----------



## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

Mike_dani said:


> So I have been a saltwater guy for years and have decided I'm going back to a discus planted tank. It has been since the under gravel days that I have had a planted tank. ...


You got plenty of excellend advice on substrata. I need not repeat it. 

I would recommend one thing. A 400 gal tank is a beast to setup and you want to do it right. Since you have not had a planted tank in many years, and because there are quite a few "mental gearshift changes" between reef systems and planted systems, I suggest that before you take on that 400 gal tank, first set up a much smaller pilot system. Something in the range of 30 - 40 gal or so, and run that for awhile, just to gain the experience with modern planted tanks. 

This has a big advantage in that it's a lot easier to tear down and set up again if there is a problem or you want to change something major. For example, lets say you try one type of substrata and just can't stand it. You want to replace it. On a small tank, you can do it in an afternoon. On a large tank it's a major project taking days. It will be similar with other areas of the tank such as filtration. You'll be able to try things on a small scale before you need to scale it up to that 400 gal tank.


----------



## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Mike_dani...have you done a planted/discus tank in the past?


----------



## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I can't help you with your questions.......but a 400 gallon Discus tank?? I am really looking forward to seeing this.

Please be sure to start a journal, as I'm sure many would like to follow along.


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

lol @ how much you might spend on amazonia in a tank that large

i agree with others you should use black diamond blasting grit. $8 for 50lb bag. just rinse it before you put it in the tank

might not be a great idea to use dirt under substrate with discus. you can still get great results with just blasting sand and dosing the water column as needed.

the 'discus people' around here will inevitably show up and give their 2 cents as well


----------



## Doogy262 (Aug 11, 2013)

Have agree with Ichy don't use a dark substrate with Discus the colors don't pop and can increase peppering which are black spots they use to hide themselves.This is a great product and you don't want anything underneath it.A Discus tank is about the fish first so keep it simple and leave a lot of room in the front for swimming and observing.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q73GN...vqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_766hy06d5_e


----------



## Mike_dani (Jul 24, 2017)

ichy said:


> Mike_dani...have you done a planted/discus tank in the past?


Ichy the last one I had was in 1992 so it has been a few years. I used to breed angles and discus fish blood worms and plants so I have my old notes from previous setups. 

However as with saltwater so much has changed since then. My main concern is substrates that are good for my discus and plants keeping in mind an acidic higher temp water chemistry.


----------



## Mike_dani (Jul 24, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Blasting grit or pool filter sand. If you're planning on dosing the water column, then don't worry about putting anything under the substrate.


. 

Blasting grit is black and this will impact discus coloration so if pool sand is good then that's what I'm going with.


----------



## Mike_dani (Jul 24, 2017)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> yup black diamond blasting sand or pool filter sand would be the cheapest options. soil+sand cap might be cheaper if you wanna use the soil in your yard.
> 
> as someone who use red clay (amaco mexican pottery clay to be specific) in his tanks before, i suggest NOT using it if you're the type that likes to change stuff around or if you ever plan to tear down the tank.
> 
> if you want to use soil maybe consider adding a soil retainer between the soil and your cap, it'll reduce the amount of dirt you pull up when you have to replant.


We use a lot of egg crate material in saltwater I might look into using it with som clay under the sand.


----------



## Mike_dani (Jul 24, 2017)

ichy said:


> Don't use dark substrate with discus. It will not show off their colors as well. I had black diamond with my discus earlier on and switched to light pool filter sand. Night and day difference!
> Plain ole filter sand for about $12 is good BUT this stuff is amazing!
> 
> AquaQuartz Silica Sand for Sale ? Pool Supplies Superstore
> ...


Looks great thank you


----------



## Mike_dani (Jul 24, 2017)

Greggz said:


> I can't help you with your questions.......but a 400 gallon Discus tank?? I am really looking forward to seeing this.
> 
> Please be sure to start a journal, as I'm sure many would like to follow along.


Thansk


----------



## Mike_dani (Jul 24, 2017)

Doogy262 said:


> Have agree with Ichy don't use a dark substrate with Discus the colors don't pop and can increase peppering which are black spots they use to hide themselves.This is a great product and you don't want anything underneath it.A Discus tank is about the fish first so keep it simple and leave a lot of room in the front for swimming and observing.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q73GN...vqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_766hy06d5_e


Looks great. Did you use pool sand


----------



## Doogy262 (Aug 11, 2013)

Mike_dani said:


> Looks great. Did you use pool sand


Yes what you see in the pic is the same as the link I sent,very white,easy to clean and cheap...


----------



## tatersalad (Dec 7, 2011)

Glad a saw this post, I was suspicious that my black diamond substrate was causing my Discus to look like they do. Thanks guys


----------



## Doogy262 (Aug 11, 2013)

tatersalad said:


> Glad a saw this post, I was suspicious that my black diamond substrate was causing my Discus to look like they do. Thanks guys


Hi Tater,yes I was saved from the same situation by Discus Paul on this forum who warned me about a dark substrate before I set things up,i guess it is some kind of defense thing but if possible and you change to a light substrate you won't be sorry....


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

interesting... I had no idea discus coloration could be affected by surroundings

i rescind my usual recommendation for black diamond in this case lol


----------



## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Since Rio ***** river bottoms are generally a whitish sand in nature, filter sand sounds like a good plan. Take into account that white sand also reflects light from above quite well, and you may need to reduce what would normally be a prodigious amount of lighting for a 400 gallon aquarium.

Cory at Aquarium Co-Op just installed an 800 gallon tank, which is loaded with Clown Loaches and Tiger Barbs. His assistant was actually swimming in the tank to help adjust the decor and give the tank sides a cleaning.


----------



## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Doogy...that link was $12.95 for the product and $29.95 for shipping yikes!

Here are your best options:
1. Find pool filter sand locally, but be careful....it is not all created equal. For example, I can get PFS locally but it is nothing more than playground sand. For some reason, no one stocks the white stuff here.

2. Check you ACE hardware store, mine did not carry it but I went online and did the "deliver to store" and got this:
HTH 50lbs Pool Filter Sand (61308) - Pool Maintenance Equipment - Ace Hardware. It is GOOD but the AquaQuartz is spectacular!

3. Aquaquartz here:
AquaQuartz Silica Sand for Sale ? Pool Supplies Superstore
I think you will get free shipping, but not sure?


----------



## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Doogy262 said:


> Have agree with Ichy don't use a dark substrate with Discus the colors don't pop and can increase peppering which are black spots they use to hide themselves.This is a great product and you don't want anything underneath it.A Discus tank is about the fish first so keep it simple and leave a lot of room in the front for swimming and observing.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q73GN...vqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_766hy06d5_e


What size tank is this? 75?

Great display!

Bump:


klibs said:


> interesting... I had no idea discus coloration could be affected by surroundings
> 
> i rescind my usual recommendation for black diamond in this case lol


Its true with alot of fish. Even when my keyhole cichlids hover over something dark, its as if they completely disappear and darken.

I know the black sand is all the rage, but Ive seen alot of tanks with black substrate where fish would look better with pool sand.


----------



## Doogy262 (Aug 11, 2013)

No it is a 90 gal.


----------



## Cheetah2 (Nov 24, 2015)

I assume you have a plan for the heavy volume of water changes? For discus, it's 50% weekly (or more if juveniles). I'd say this is one of the major drawbacks to fresh water vs. salt water.


----------



## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Cheetah2 said:


> I assume you have a plan for the heavy volume of water changes? For discus, it's 50% weekly (or more if juveniles). I'd say this is one of the major drawbacks to fresh water vs. salt water.


50% weekly for juvies! LOL...I wish!

I do 50% DAILY until adults!


----------



## Cheetah2 (Nov 24, 2015)

ichy said:


> 50% weekly for juvies! LOL...I wish!
> 
> I do 50% DAILY until adults!


Therefore, with a 400 gallon tank of adults, it would mean a minimum of 10,000 gallons of water changes in one year. If juvies, that would be 73,000 gallons in the year they are growing up. I'm worn out just thinking about it!


----------



## Mike_dani (Jul 24, 2017)

Cheetah2 said:


> I assume you have a plan for the heavy volume of water changes? For discus, it's 50% weekly (or more if juveniles). I'd say this is one of the major drawbacks to fresh water vs. salt water.


Yes I have a plan. 

When it was a booming coral growing reef tank I had my Apex doing daily water changes of 10%. I can set the controller to change any amount of water thru the day. While the fish are juveniles I will do 3% per hour now I know that doesn't sound like much however the systems total water volume is around 600 gallons with sump and my daughters bedroom tank. Should work out to 450 gallons a day.


----------



## Mike_dani (Jul 24, 2017)

Cheetah2 said:


> ichy said:
> 
> 
> > 50% weekly for juvies! LOL...I wish!
> ...


I think it will be more like 160k per year but who's counting. Water is cheap and very plentiful in Alabama.


----------



## Pickupman66 (Jul 12, 2017)

WOW. you have to change that much a DAY! screw that. I will never have Discus.


----------



## Anchor (Sep 10, 2016)

Yea 400 gallons a day? That's like... 80 trips with a bucket. Lol



May I ask how do you have your plumbing setup for water change? specifically interested in any safety devices that prevent overfill/drain. I'm currently in the middle of plumbing mine in, and this will be my first go at it.


----------



## Doogy262 (Aug 11, 2013)

Mike_dani said:


> Yes I have a plan.
> 
> When it was a booming coral growing reef tank I had my Apex doing daily water changes of 10%. I can set the controller to change any amount of water thru the day. While the fish are juveniles I will do 3% per hour now I know that doesn't sound like much however the systems total water volume is around 600 gallons with sump and my daughters bedroom tank. Should work out to 450 gallons a day.


Or you can put some money away and buy adults like i did lol juveniles in a planted tank can be a nightmare...


----------



## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

Have you considered using good substrate where you plan on putting plants and filling in the rest with the cheap sand?


----------



## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Doogy262 said:


> Or you can put some money away and buy adults like i did lol juveniles in a planted tank can be a nightmare...


this!


----------



## Pickupman66 (Jul 12, 2017)

Hey Loser.. you ever get this thing off the ground?


----------

