# walstad spinoff



## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm sure it will work, it will just be very messy and you won't be able to have any kind of disturbance or it will make a mess. The cap is usually put down to keep all the wanna be floaters at bay.

I've made the same observations about MGOCPM which is why I didn't use it in my tank. My current tank is 100% peat which is OK, but still wants to float almost a year later. My next tank will just be potting soil and plain dirt. Probably clay as well if I can get my hands on some. The wood in MGOCPM is too much and doesn't really bring anything useful to the table except tannins.


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

I agree with the thought that MGOCPM doesnt offer much. I dont understand why people get so hyped up on miracle grow organic soil when it is just mulch mixed with manure. My old tank was plain old dirt from the backyard and it worked better. plus manure doesnt seem like an intelligent thing to add into a small contained aquarium. i just finished resetting up my tank. I used a dirt substrate, and coated with with mineralized MGOCPM. the MGOCPM seems like no dirt at all, just very finely ground up wood, which i think looks really cool as a cap.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Aquariumalchemy said:


> ...I dont understand why people get so hyped up on miracle grow organic soil when it is just mulch mixed with manure...


Because it's easier/faster than building MTS




Aquariumalchemy said:


> ....manure doesnt seem like an intelligent thing to add into a small contained aquarium...


I take it you haven't read my *Poopology* research. 

:hihi:


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## king kong (Jul 2, 2012)

Aquariumalchemy said:


> I agree with the thought that MGOCPM doesnt offer much. I dont understand why people get so hyped up on miracle grow organic soil when it is just mulch mixed with manure. My old tank was plain old dirt from the backyard and it worked better. plus manure doesnt seem like an intelligent thing to add into a small contained aquarium. i just finished resetting up my tank. I used a dirt substrate, and coated with with mineralized MGOCPM. the MGOCPM seems like no dirt at all, just very finely ground up wood, which i think looks really cool as a cap.


It is the word used 'Miracle'...How could a product called a miracle not work. Manure is a miracle.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

Aquariumalchemy said:


> I agree with the thought that MGOCPM doesnt offer much. I dont understand why people get so hyped up on miracle grow organic soil when it is just mulch mixed with manure. My old tank was plain old dirt from the backyard and it worked better. plus manure doesnt seem like an intelligent thing to add into a small contained aquarium. i just finished resetting up my tank. I used a dirt substrate, and coated with with mineralized MGOCPM. the MGOCPM seems like no dirt at all, just very finely ground up wood, which i think looks really cool as a cap.



I don't know how many people are actually hyped about MGOCPM, I think it's just a product that's widely available that a lot of people have used off the shelf.

combination of availability, ease of use, and documented experience.

If I lived in a different area, I'd be all for just taking some dirt out of the woods or back yard or whatever, but this isn't always a viable, or wise option for a lot of people in urban areas.


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## Hardy85 (May 3, 2013)

i agree, the right off the shelf is why I am leaning towards it for my first dirted tank.

Really don't have the time for full MTS since I am doing this while I move the tank to my new house, rather than having to tear it down twice. So unless there is another product off the shelf ready I'll prob do MGOCPM

I personally wouldn't use dirt as a cap, even though it looks natural since most streams have mud bottoms, if you do anything inside the tank it will get everywhere


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

hmm I guess i didnt think about the fact that many people dont have dirt available to them. maybe i just had a bad experience with miracle grow but for me it was a nightmare. stanky fish tank and dying plants.

well here is the wood chips that i water logged and uses as a cap for my dirt from my yard, the wood chips are from the miracle grow. still a bit foggy but alot more clear than yesterday when i redirted the tank.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

that's a pretty neat look.

I imagine you have to be somewhat careful with currents and such?

Also curious how it holds up over time.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

I did a 10 gallon with just dumping mgopm in and capping with sand, tanks been up for over a month now. I no longer get the air pockets that i would poke with a stick or skewer and the plants are growing nicely. The only downside is the wood makes its way above the soil and sits on the cap as its water logged now. Sort of unsightly but this tank i want to be a jungle of sorts so that works for me.
I just recently set up a 20long with mgopm that i sifted thru a reptile screen stop to remove most of the bigger chunks of wood. i then capped this with safe t sorb, i see a drastic difference in sifting and not. I will sift the soil from here on out unless i use a darker cap. But the new 20 long has had no pockets and ive moved and planted new plants and had little float up except maybe a little dirt cloud, i know that the wood chips will decay over time essentially making the soil last longer but once i use up the soil nutrients a simple root tab here and there shoud suffice. I plan on dosing weekly micro/macro nutrients for the water column anyways so time will tell how things go


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## PeterN1986 (Jun 15, 2011)

The wood chips are easy to remove; just use a strainer to filter them out. Then you're left with soft, super dark, velvety dirt. Surprised that the wood chips are causing this much grief.


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

lochaber said:


> that's a pretty neat look.
> 
> I imagine you have to be somewhat careful with currents and such?
> 
> Also curious how it holds up over time.



I do have to be very careful with water changes. i just put a strainer over the tank and it disperses the water. And i had a powerhead near the top of the tank.... it didnt move the dirt on its on, but when my fish especially my large angel fish would dig in the dirt the current would pickup whatever they disturbed.


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

PeterN1986 said:


> The wood chips are easy to remove; just use a strainer to filter them out. Then you're left with soft, super dark, velvety dirt. Surprised that the wood chips are causing this much grief.


you could also fill a large bucket with water and miracle grow and sift it. whatever sinks is supposedly not wood.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Aquariumalchemy said:


> I agree with the thought that MGOCPM doesnt offer much. I dont understand why people get so hyped up on miracle grow organic soil when it is just mulch mixed with manure. My old tank was plain old dirt from the backyard and it worked better. plus manure doesnt seem like an intelligent thing to add into a small contained aquarium. i just finished resetting up my tank. I used a dirt substrate, and coated with with mineralized MGOCPM. the MGOCPM seems like no dirt at all, just very finely ground up wood, which i think looks really cool as a cap.


Because its a lot cheaper and easier accessible compared to making mts. Some have issue finding all the components for making mts. Many have used MGOCPM with great results. I am sold on it. If you have large or multiple tanks to setup, you want the easiest and cheapest route that has proven results and MG is an option. Now it may not be for everyone but it does work. Otherwise, there wouldn't be hype about it. For the record, it does not have manure in it. The potting soil does, not the potting mix.

As far as using MGOCPM uncapped, sure it can be done as mentioned. It just won't be wise. With that said though, I will be going the uncapped route but that tank will be a plant growout only.


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## mattjm20 (Nov 2, 2013)

I haven't read this entire thread but for anyone having issues with dirted tanks in the form of gas getting "stuck" in the substrate, you probably used too much soil. If you use about 1-1.5" soil and then another 1-1.5" of gravel cap you should be ok... but from what I've seen the people who get crazy with the dirt run into trouble.

I've also been told it's necessary to run the dirt through some kind of strainer (dry) to remove the chunks of wood, etc. Otherwise they will rise and randomly be poking through your cap over time.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

mattjm20 said:


> I haven't read this entire thread but for anyone having issues with dirted tanks in the form of gas getting "stuck" in the substrate, you probably used too much soil. If you use about 1-1.5" soil and then another 1-1.5" of gravel cap you should be ok... but from what I've seen the people who get crazy with the dirt run into trouble.
> 
> I've also been told it's necessary to run the dirt through some kind of strainer (dry) to remove the chunks of wood, etc. Otherwise they will rise and randomly be poking through your cap over time.


I thought straining was what everyone did as well at first. I started a straining thread on MGOCPM awhile back and in a nutshell, just place the contents of the bag in the tank, cap it and plant it. Some argued to strain out the bigger chunks at least others said to dump and go. I had started straining 6 bag and about 1/4 of each bag worth of decomposable material was removed. After that thread generated more hits, come key advise started rolling in so I stopped straining.


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## mattjm20 (Nov 2, 2013)

Sorry if I'm being dense here... why/how was it concluded that it wasn't important to strain out those chunks of wood? What was the reasoning?


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

I don't see how that wood hihi be beneficial. The stuff just floats forever and doesn't provide anything relevant to the aquarium. I'm not going with MGOPM for the very reason that it contains too much wood and not enough dirt. Diana posted a very good tip on getting soil from your back yard and determining if its viable for your aquarium or not.


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

if anyone was interested in the outcome of normal "backyard dirt" capped with soil here is what happened so far....
The plants have shown some growth, i have had no problem with cloudy water or plants uprooting themselves.
the water does have an brown tint to it and it will get cloudy if i move around to much stuff. aside from that i loved what it use to look like when i first did it. . (use to)
Now pretty much any miracle grow exposed to my grow lights has grown a brown/green fluffy hairy algae that has infected everything else in the tank.; plants glass ect. Im hoping that my hc cuba will cover the dirt soon but it looks like the brown algae may smother it because its so far just melted and been gotten covered in algae.
Does anyone think i can drop in some river pebbles and eventually see the problem disappear, or can hc cuba not grow in this size of cap substrate


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## James M (Jun 21, 2012)

We have good soil here where I live - I just used that, and mixed it 50/50 with calcined clay (Turface).


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## PeterN1986 (Jun 15, 2011)

Aquariumalchemy said:


> Now pretty much any miracle grow exposed to my grow lights has grown a brown/green fluffy hairy algae that has infected everything else in the tank.; plants glass ect. Im hoping that my hc cuba will cover the dirt soon but it looks like the brown algae may smother it because its so far just melted and been gotten covered in algae.
> Does anyone think i can drop in some river pebbles and eventually see the problem disappear, or can hc cuba not grow in this size of cap substrate


Get some Amanos or otos or RCS's or snails. They will eat the algae up in no time.


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## Aquariumalchemy (Jun 21, 2013)

PeterN1986 said:


> Get some Amanos or otos or RCS's or snails. They will eat the algae up in no time.


i got three rcs and two amanos. so far all three rcs jumped out and i havnt seen the amanos since i bought them... do you think excel would help this?


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