# What's causing my hair algae?



## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

So lately my problem is trying to figure out what is causing my abundance of hair algae. I'm worried for my betta, as he's been getting stuck it in more frequently.

I have two medium-planted tanks in my room, a 5 gallon and a 2.5 gallon. Their sides face my south-facing window, but I try to minimize sunlight with a board in the window.

I have had these tanks set up for maybe a year or two, and never had a problem with hair algae until recently. They used to grow a little on my marimo balls but weren't a big problem, and I could always just pick it off. Then it started getting out of hand, so I took all my marimo balls out. By then, however, the problem spread to other plants. I keep manually trying to remove the hair algae but that makes it seem to grow even faster. As of now, hair algae is touching nearly every plant in my 5 gallon, and 50% of the plants in my 2.5 gallon.

*Lighting:* Light fixtures are the standard lights included with the Fluval V and Fluval III. They're on a timer, set to turn on at 6am and off at 8pm, though I still have my room lights on (anywhere from midnight to 2am). This isn't new, but if it's making it worse, I can try turning all the lights off when the fish tanks go dark.

*Water changes:* 30% weekly, after some light gravel vacuuming

*Dosing:*
Nite-Out II
Stress Coat
Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+
Note: I don't dose with CO2.









*5 gallon (Fluval V):*
-5 snowball shrimp
-1 male halfmoon betta
-1 thorny nerite snail
-Lots of narrow-leaf anacharis
-Little bit of riccia
-Lots of dwarf hair grass
-Some floating frogbit
-4 anubias
-6 ammannia gracilis
-Several pieces of cryptocoryne (assorted)
-A clump of carpet plant whose name I can't remember
-Only a little bit of copepods, nematodes, and seed shrimp because the betta eats them
-Lots of mini-ramshorn snail pests
-Driftwood

*Fluval V Water Parameters:*
Nitrate: 30 ppm
Nitrite: 0-0.5 ppm
GH: 16.8
Chlorine: 0
KH: 2.24
pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0
TDS: 261
Temperature: 78

Note: The frogbit is recent; I was hoping some floating plants might slow down the hair algae's growth. Though it is growing really fast, after a few days some of the leaves began to melt. Today I ended up taking off a bunch of pest snails.

The hair algae REALLY likes the narrow-leaf anacharis and it's so hard getting it off them.









*2.5 gallon (Fluval III):*
-4 male cherry shrimp
-3 anubias
-Several ammannia gracilis
-Several clumps of utricularia graminifolia
-An abundance of copepods, nematodes, seed shrimp, and mini-ramshorn snails
-Driftwood

*Fluval III Water Parameters:*
Nitrate: 30 ppm
Nitrite: 0-0.5 ppm
GH: 16.8
Chlorine: 0
KH: 4.48
pH: 7.2
Ammonia: 0
TDS: 240
Temperature: 74.8

Are my lights on too long? Am I not dosing properly? I really don't want to break down my tanks, or do any bleach solutions. There also aren't any places I can move the inhabitants to.


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## Subconfish (May 10, 2018)

It's that window. You should completely block the tank from the window. South windows are strong lighting. I would reduce light to 6 hour photo period until algae reduce. Room light is okay if ur up late. I would also stop dosing ferts and water change twice weekly.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Subconfish said:


> It's that window. You should completely block the tank from the window. South windows are strong lighting. I would reduce light to 6 hour photo period until algae reduce. Room light is okay if ur up late. I would also stop dosing ferts and water change twice weekly.


Thank you! I found the board wasn't covering the side of the window completely, so once I fixed that, the growth really slowed down.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> Stress Coat
> Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+
> Note: I don't dose with CO2.


Based on this you are not dosing any fertilizer. If that is correct that could be a lot of your problem. Algae, especially hair algae does very well in nutrient deficient water. Plants however don't do well under these circumstances. 



> Though it is growing really fast, after a few days some of the leaves began to melt.


That could also be a indication of a nutrient deficiency.


As to light having it on more than 7 hours is not helping. However if you have a nutrient deficiency reducing light levels may not help.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Would root tabs fix this?


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Root tabs are better than nothing, but most stem plants take nutrients from the water column. Better to dose the water column. Follow the advice of above posters for long-term solution.

For a short-term solution, glutaraldehyde (Seachem Excel or NilocG Enhance) kills hair algae. Take a read through this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/1259905-time-i-think-im-losing-war.html


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## MultiTankGuy (Jan 8, 2018)

*Algae Problems*

Ryan...


Algae problems are water chemistry problems. There's likely too much phosphate and nitrate in the tank water. 
If your fish and plants aren't using all the nutrients, you're setting up a perfect environment for all types of algae.
The best thing to do is to reduce the amount you feed and change most of the tank water more often. Small 
tanks need 50 percent water changes a couple of times a week in order to maintain a balanced water chemistry.


M


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

Subconfish said:


> I would also stop dosing ferts and water change twice weekly.


Stopping fertilizers will only exacerbate the issue. As Surf mentioned, unhealthy plants leads to algae, as the algae can thrive off of far less than the plants can, and it can thrive ON unhealthy plants. I agree with Deanna that dosing water column is the route to go. I've never been a fan of root tabs as I like to move plants around frequently, which would result in the fert pellets being uprooted and requiring cleanup. Your plants are definitely in need of something though, their health seems to be suffering as can be seen by the Ammania gracilis curled and down turned leaves. 

I'd like to also add that your lighting period is VERY long. 14 hours of light is not going to do you any favors in battling hair algae. I'd cut that down tremendously, say in half to start. As Deanna mentioned, glut (Excel or Metricide) is highly effective against hair algae. Increasing water change amount and frequency should also prove beneficial.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

High phosphate does not cause algae. Old wives tale debunked years ago. In fact, too little phosphate can cause an increase in certain types of algae.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

My tank definitely has a problem with nutrient deficiency, because I haven't been dosing any ferts. Some of the plants don't look like they could be doing as well as they can, and some are slowly melting, so I'll get on this today and hit the LFS. Sounds like in addition to ferts, I need to get higher CO2. I'll switch to 50% weekly water changes.

Questions:

#1. In your opinion, what is the easiest solution for tanks 5gal and 2.5gal? Is there a cannister I can buy that works with these sizes? (I've never done CO2 before, I'm a newb.) I'd prefer to buy something than to go with the yeast formula if this is for long-term. I'll check with my LFS.

#2. I don't see Excel on the dosing calculator; should I buy something else instead or just try the Excel and follow the instructions on the bottle? Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator

#3. If dosing Excel for ferts is short-term, what is the long-term alternative?

#4. In the other thread, someone said, "What kind of filtration are you using and how often are you cleaning it? It's best to clean the filters on shorter intervals as opposed to doing it monthly or at greater intervals." Newb question incoming: With the Fluval tanks, that would be the foam filter block, right?

#5. Does having my lights on in my room (but not the tank light) also count as their lighting period? My lights are some lamp bulbs set on the far side of the room, but though the room isn't bright, it's definitely not dark or too dim. If this has an impact on the tank, I'll start turning off all the lights when the tank's light goes out. For the moment their timer is set from noon to 6pm.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Ryan Mosby said:


> My tank definitely has a problem with nutrient deficiency, because I haven't been dosing any ferts. Some of the plants don't look like they could be doing as well as they can, and some are slowly melting, so I'll get on this today and hit the LFS. Sounds like in addition to ferts, I need to get higher CO2. I'll switch to 50% weekly water changes.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> ...


First, make sure you get the nutrients right, as mentioned several times above.

Answering your questions, from my viewpoint:

#1 and #3 Yes: pressurized CO2 is best in the long run, but for your sized tanks, Excel is probably good enough. You can buy CO2 systems for anywhere from $100 up to about $300 (more dollars just add bells and whistles). There is much discussion and controversy over what is best. Search this forum regarding regulators (the key piece of equipment) and you will be able to make you own determination as to what you want (single vs dual stage). Smaller tanks are more of a challenge in all things. You don't have as much wiggle room. I would tend to recommend dual stage (I always do) with the best needle valve (Fabco) you can afford. Rare that an LFS knows much about CO2 systems - better info on this site. They just don't encounter it enough, unless they have their own.

#2 and #5 I don't believe that your Fluval lights are that strong. It's just that you have them on 14 hours a day and yes; ambient light, if you can read by it, can cause photosynthesis (just a matter of degree). Try getting your photoperiod down to about 6 hours, then move up from there until you can't handle the algae (you have my hair algae eradication suggestion in another post). Excel, and other glut formulations, can nicely supply the carbon in a low-intensity light setup, such as yours. I would try that before going to pressurized CO2. I don't like DIY CO2 as it is too difficult to maintain consistency of CO2 ppm and that, alone, can create algae havoc. Dosing instructions are on the bottle and you can double it if you don't get a plant response. No need for it in the nutrient calculators as it is pretty straightforward. 

#4 You have three components to a filter: mechanical, bio and chemical. Chemical (carbon, Purigen, etc) are often times unnecessary. If you think you need them, use Purigen. Mechanical is necessary. It is the thing (floss, pads, whatever) that traps the detritus coming in. It is that aspect where the need to clean the filter resides. I clean mine weekly (empty it and rinse it). The bio-media is where the beneficial bacteria make their home in order to convert nasty things into safe nitrates. That is what the sponge is likely doing in your case. I prefer other approaches than sponges, such as Matrix or Siporax, but Fluval may also be intending the sponge to act as a mechanical filter as well.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Deanna said:


> pressurized CO2 is best in the long run, but for your sized tanks, Excel is probably good enough.


Does this mean Excel can be used in place of CO2?



Deanna said:


> You can buy CO2 systems for anywhere from $100 up to about $300 (more dollars just add bells and whistles). There is much discussion and controversy over what is best. Search this forum regarding regulators (the key piece of equipment) and you will be able to make you own determination as to what you want (single vs dual stage). Smaller tanks are more of a challenge in all things. You don't have as much wiggle room. I would tend to recommend dual stage (I always do) with the best needle valve (Fabco) you can afford. Rare that an LFS knows much about CO2 systems - better info on this site. They just don't encounter it enough, unless they have their own.


I went and bought a CO2 system for $50 from my LFS before I saw this post. It's a single stage Fluval 45g pressurized CO2 kit, and judging by the posts on the forums, I'll probably regret it. At least it was just $50, but money is kind of tight right now. I think I might return it.



Deanna said:


> #2 and #5 I don't believe that your Fluval lights are that strong. It's just that you have them on 14 hours a day and yes; ambient light, if you can read by it, can cause photosynthesis (just a matter of degree). Try getting your photoperiod down to about 6 hours, then move up from there until you can't handle the algae (you have my hair algae eradication suggestion in another post).


I set the timer down to noon to 6pm, and once the tank lights go out, my room lights will now go out too.



Deanna said:


> Excel, and other glut formulations, can nicely supply the carbon in a low-intensity light setup, such as yours. I would try that before going to pressurized CO2.


Whoops... Okay, disconnecting the CO2 now...



Deanna said:


> Dosing instructions are on the bottle and you can double it if you don't get a plant response. No need for it in the nutrient calculators as it is pretty straightforward.


Many thanks!



Deanna said:


> Mechanical is necessary. It is the thing (floss, pads, whatever) that traps the detritus coming in. It is that aspect where the need to clean the filter resides. I clean mine weekly (empty it and rinse it). The bio-media is where the beneficial bacteria make their home in order to convert nasty things into safe nitrates. That is what the sponge is likely doing in your case. I prefer other approaches than sponges, such as Matrix or Siporax, but Fluval may also be intending the sponge to act as a mechanical filter as well.


I also have a pre-filter sponge cylinder to slow the water flow for my betta and shrimp. Is it okay to fill something with tap water and something to dechlorinate it to clean the filter?


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

It's best to use tank water to rinse the filter. although I don't have bio-media in my filter, I used to use plain tap water to rinse it and my BB were fine. BB is pretty tough and a quick rinse in chlorinated water isn't going to do much damage. However, when you refill the filter, use the tank water.


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

Ryan Mosby said:


> Does this mean Excel can be used in place of CO2?



Excel and glut are not CO2 substitutes as much as they may advertise. 



Excel/Glut is an algicide, not CO2. It does not have a chemical pathway to CO2. Just google glutaraldehyde and peruse the wiki page for it. (as inaccurate as wiki may be). It is a highly reactive substance that reacts with proteins mainly. And kills algae by 'cross linking' proteins. It will react with a protein on one end of the compound and another protein on the other reactive side, at the C=O double bond. This is just my best educated guess from studying Chemistry in my undergraduate years as well as the basic information that is provided on the wiki page. 

But with such a small tank, injecting CO2 is probably overkill and potentially dangerous as it would be super easy to kill any livestock you may or may not have. With such a small volume, with just enough surface agitation and enough gaseous exchange, you'll probably have ample CO2. A better way to help a small tank system would be using aqua soil or dirt. My 10 gallon without CO2 injection vigorously pearls oxygen consistently every day.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Gluteraldehyde/Excel provides carbon, not CO2, and helps quite a bit where CO2 is lacking. They are not promoted as an algaecide, even though they do have that added benefit. The maximum CO2 that can be dissolved from the atmosphere is about 3ppm. This is barely enough to keep some moderate growth going in a low-light setup, which is usually good enough. The Excel will simply help supplement the carbon need and provide additional growth/health. With pressurized injection, we generally target 30-35ppm where high light is involved.


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

If that is true, how come some plants like Egeria sp. completely melt in the presence of Excel? Shouldn't it be able to use Excel as a carbon source? It's not like its calvin cycle is different. I have many doubts about Excel being a liquid carbon source mainly because it kills and disinfects and it seems that more complex organisms are able to deal with the reactivity of the glutaraldehyde or excel and 'fix' itself or whatnot and more simple ones can't. This could help explain why algae and some plants die from exposure to it but not hardier plants and animals. 

And one caveat to mention is that Excel is reportedly not glutaraldehyde but instead an isomerized or modified version of it. At best though, if it does breakdown to CO2 via aerobic processes (similar to yeast breakdown of sugars) it provides at most only twice the amount of CO2 per molecule of the 'glut' molecule. So at normal dosages, 4ppm per 2ppm dosage of Excel. My *guess* is that if any extra carbon it can provide for the Calvin cycle is minimal at best, and likely not the reason why it helps plants grow. An extra 4 ppm, at best, will do less for plants compared to the algae-killing properties of the compound. Another guess is that the compound will react with proteins and be bound to those and be unusable in the aerobic processes that breakdown the compound. So much of the compound dosed will be caught up in algae killing and reacting with other organisms.

Also, non-CO2 setups can have plenty of growth without injected CO2, you just need to use soil/aquasoil. Before adding excel to kill algae, my egeria densa would grow 5-6 inches a week, and my rotala is growing great and pearling daily, obviously though these are very easy plants to grow. After adding excel, of course my egeria densa has mostly died off.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Honestly I'm just confused. Suggested solutions seem complicated and contradictory. Get CO2, don't get CO2, dose Excel, don't dose Excel, get soil. I want what is best for my nano tanks, but I want to be sure on anything I do, because in most cases solutions take time and money, and it is easy to do the wrong thing and royally mess up or waste money.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> "The results of the aquatic metabolism studies indicate that glutaraldehyde is rapidly biotransformed by microbes. Under aerobic conditions, metabolism proceeds to com- plete mineralization, with the formation of glutaric acid
> as an intermediate and CO2 as the principal metabolite." "glutaraldehyde is inhibitory to microbes at a concentration above 5 mg/L"



Bigger question would be "significant" amounts of CO2..but it def. is a pretty good algeacide.
https://barrreport.com/threads/glutaraldehyde-residual-decay-rates-in-real-planted-aquariums.10194/
Glutaraldehyde, Alias 1,5-Glutaraldehyde, Pentanedial, Glutaric dialdehyde - Jinan Quicer Technology And Trade Co., ltd.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0147651300920311


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## zmartin (May 1, 2018)

There are so many moving parts when you are establishing an aquarium. To make it a bit simpler I would start with fertilisers and excel. You can move to CO2 when everything else is up and running and lesson the variables when establishing CO2.

I’ve got Aquasoil and the plants love it and provides a margin for error for using fertilisers. That said it’s a pain to get up and running with heaps of water changes and high ammonia levels (though you don’t need another ammonia source to cycle the tank) and it does buffer your Ph to a slightly acidic tank which is good for plants accessing fertilisers in the water. The buffering lasts longer if your willing to work with RO water and not tap (in most cases)

Along the lines of deferring CO2 to simplify things - deferring using Aquasoil might also be best. Really comes down to 
- how important are the plants and the variety of plants 
- how much your willing to read up.

Keep asking questions and Good luck with it




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

I think if you search this forum, you will find that Excel is known to boost plant growth and the reasons are well explained. It is not a replacement for CO2, just a booster where there is little CO2. Seachem does not admit to it being glutaraldehyde, because glut is available at lower cost elsewhere (you could also buy NilocG's Enhance, for example). Importantly, they also refuse to deny that it is not glut. I'm not going to get into the biological theories, here, as to how it works as this is discussed ad nauseum all over TPT and the broader web.

Glut does breakdown during the day, which is why you have to dose it daily.

It is also true that glut melts a few primitive plant species, such as vals, egeria (anacharis) and some mosses, but that's about it. However, these can be trained to adapt to Excel dosing and will survive. When I used it on a low-tech setup, I replaced the anacharis with another plant, because the benefits of using it were clear in my tank.

Try it and see if you notice a difference. The worst outcome is that it will impede your hair algae.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> Based on this you are not dosing any fertilizer. If that is correct that could be a lot of your problem. Algae, especially hair algae does very well in nutrient deficient water. Plants however don't do well under these circumstances.


Since I posted that the discussion has been mainly about Excell and CO2.

Keep in mind that in addition to Light CO2, O2 and water plants need the following elements:
Macron elements Nitrogen, potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, phosphorous, sulfur.

Micro elements: Chlorine, iron, boron, manganese, zinc, coper, nickel , molybdenum

CO2 and Excell contain none of these elements. You water parameters indicate you have enough nitrogen, Your salty shrimp GH booster contains calcium magnesium, chlorine So right now you are short sulfur phosphate, and almost all of the micro nutrients You need to get a fertilizer. If you can keep your ph between 6 and 6.5 with CO2. CSM+B would supply most of your micros Adding Potassium sulfate would help and you may need potassium phosphate to address phosphate needs. While your tap water may have some of these. but the safe thing to do is to assume your water has none of micros or missing macros. Make sure that whatever fertilizer you buy has all the elements you need.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Surf said:


> Micro elements: Chlorine, iron, boron, manganese, zinc, coper, nickel , molybdenum
> 
> CO2 and Excell contain none of these elements. You water parameters indicate you have enough nitrogen, Your salty shrimp GH booster contains calcium magnesium, chlorine So right now you are short sulfur phosphate, and almost all of the micro nutrients You need to get a fertilizer. If you can keep your ph between 6 and 6.5 with CO2. CSM+B would supply most of your micros Adding Potassium sulfate would help and you may need potassium phosphate to address phosphate needs. While your tap water may have some of these. but the safe thing to do is to assume your water has none of micros or missing macros. Make sure that whatever fertilizer you buy has all the elements you need.


Is there an alternative to using pressurized CO2 cannisters? My tanks are small at 2.5 and 5, and after the incident yesterday, I'm not too keen on having pressurized CO2 in my room.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Surf said:


> Micro elements: Chlorine, iron, boron, manganese, zinc, coper, nickel , molybdenum
> 
> CO2 and Excell contain none of these elements. You water parameters indicate you have enough nitrogen, Your salty shrimp GH booster contains calcium magnesium, chlorine So right now you are short sulfur phosphate, and almost all of the micro nutrients You need to get a fertilizer. If you can keep your ph between 6 and 6.5 with CO2. CSM+B would supply most of your micros Adding Potassium sulfate would help and you may need potassium phosphate to address phosphate needs. While your tap water may have some of these. but the safe thing to do is to assume your water has none of micros or missing macros. Make sure that whatever fertilizer you buy has all the elements you need.


I'm going to take the CO2 system back and get a better dual state. It sounds like pressurized is better and more stable than a DIY yeast formula. I really appreciate all the help that's been given, it's helping me learn more about aquarium upkeep.

I'll start dosing Excel as a temporary measure for the algae.

More questions!

#1. In addition to Flourish Excel for the algae, I have Seachem Flourish, too. It says it'll cover minor nutrients and has phosphate and soluble potash, as well as calcium. If I ditch my GH booster, will Seachem Flourish cover the nutrients my tank needs?

#2. After yesterday and a few incidents in setting up (and dismantling, oh gods) the CO2 kit, I was hesitant to do CO2 again. But if it's the best thing for my tank, I'm willing to go the distance. Are there any CO2 systems that can be used for two nano tanks close together? Mine are 6" apart. Totally inept at this stuff, but trying to read up on it. Sounds like it can be done, but will need two needle valves to distribute CO2 evenly.

#3. Possibly relying on #1, are there any recommendations on good safe C02 builds? I'm not against buying them online, considering my LFS only had the cheap Fluval kit.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> #1. In addition to Flourish Excel for the algae, I have Seachem Flourish, too. It says it'll cover minor nutrients and has phosphate and soluble potash, as well as calcium. If I ditch my GH booster, will Seachem Flourish cover the nutrients my tank needs?


I assume you are talking about Seachem Flourish comprehensive. Seachem has several flourish products. While it is better than nothing Flourish comprehensive doesn't have enough Calcium in it for plants.I would recommend you continue to use the GH booster. Also it doesn't have enough nitrogen in it. So you would have to get a nitrogen supplement. Also Flourish is very low on Zinc and Copper. Your tap water probably has these but if you have soft water it might not have enough. You might be better off getting Thrive (available at nilocg.com) and using that with your GH booster. Thrive has higher levels of macro and micro nutrients but it doesn't have calcium.

As to Excel I just noticed you listed Anacharis as one of your plants. From my own experience Anacharis is not compatable with Excell. Excel will damage and can kill it.

2. After yesterday and a few incidents in setting up (and dismantling, oh gods) the CO2 kit, I was hesitant to do CO2 again. But if it's the best thing for my tank, I'm willing to go the distance. Are there any CO2 systems that can be used for two nano tanks close together? Mine are 6" apart. Totally inept at this stuff, but trying to read up on it. Sounds like it can be done, but will need two needle valves to distribute CO2 evenly.

You can run two tanks off of on CO2 container but you would need2 needle valves 2 bubble counters, and 2 diffusers (one for each tank) to monitor the flow to each tank. The smal CO2 kit you got used small disposable CO2 containers. For small tanks many people prefer paintball CO2 containers that are avaiable in from 20oz to about 1lb sizes. These tanks have pin valves in them that allows you to remove the bottle even if some CO2 is still in it. When you remove the bottle the pin valves closes preventing the complete loss of CO2 in the tank. Several companies sell small regulators for thes tank Nilocg.com has one. Using CO2 not only supplies CO2 to the plants but it also lowers PH. Some of the micro nutrients ingredients (particularly ones containing iron) don't last long in tanks with a PH of 7 or higher. Many people run there CO2 tanks so that there PH stays at about 6.

If in the end you don't want to use CO2 you can use and air pump and diffuser. This would continuously aerate the water and hopefully replace the CO2 and oxygen as fast as the plants are using it. Most people with CO2 systems don't aerate the water because it will drive off some of the CO2 they add. If you don't have CO2 more aeration is better. But aeration will not lower the PH.

Note I don't have a CO2 system so I have no experience with paintball CO2 tanks and regulators. So I don't know which vendor has the best hardware. Also since each tank is different I cant say it CO2 would work better for you verses aeration.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Ryan Mosby said:


> I'm going to take the CO2 system back and get a better dual state. It sounds like pressurized is better and more stable than a DIY yeast formula. I really appreciate all the help that's been given, it's helping me learn more about aquarium upkeep.
> 
> I'll start dosing Excel as a temporary measure for the algae.
> 
> ...


Since you've decided to dose Excel (for the algae - it only works on red algae, which includes the hair algaes), why don't you wait a few weeks to see if the Excel gives you the results you are looking to get in terms of plant growth? Just remember that the Egeria/Anacharis will suffer, but may recover at recommended doses.

If you decide to go with pressurized CO2 and want a dual stage regulator, I suggest the you buy a used one here on TPT from one of many members and some members build a complete set for sale to other members (for sale section). While you are waiting to see if Excel works, search this forum for info on CO2 setups. In addition to the regulator, you will need a solenoid (to turn the CO2 on and off via a timer), two needle valves (I recommend a Fabco NV-55-18), bubble counters (cheap one on Amazon will do), CO2-specific tubing (different from airline tubing) and diffusers. You can get an idea of parts and prices at https://www.diyco2regulator.com/

You may be able to feed both from one needle valve since you aren't going for high growth from high light, but you would have to experiment with balancing the two tanks.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Surf said:


> Flourish comprehensive doesn't have enough Calcium in it for plants.I would recommend you continue to use the GH booster. Also it doesn't have enough nitrogen in it. So you would have to get a nitrogen supplement. Also Flourish is very low on Zinc and Copper. Your tap water probably has these but if you have soft water it might not have enough. You might be better off getting Thrive (available at nilocg.com) and using that with your GH booster. Thrive has higher levels of macro and micro nutrients but it doesn't have calcium.


Glad I returned the Flourish Comprehensive, then; I had a feeling it wasn't going to be a good fit. I'll keep on with the GH Booster and get some Thrive, thank you for the recommendation! Wewt, found it's also on Amazon, too!



Surf said:


> If in the end you don't want to use CO2 you can use and air pump and diffuser.


I have an air pump and airstone set up in the 5 gal (I thought I listed it in the first post but it seems I forgot to). I take it a diffuser would be better? I could get two, one for each tank, and get a 2 way gang valve for my air pump.



Surf said:


> As to Excel I just noticed you listed Anacharis as one of your plants. From my own experience Anacharis is not compatable with Excell. Excel will damage and can kill it.





Deanna said:


> Since you've decided to dose Excel (for the algae - it only works on red algae, which includes the hair algaes), why don't you wait a few weeks to see if the Excel gives you the results you are looking to get in terms of plant growth? Just remember that the Egeria/Anacharis will suffer, but may recover at recommended doses.


I hope the anacharis lives, I like having them on my driftwood pieces.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

I want to thank everyone who helped me out. I've been dosing Excel daily for weeks now, and Thrive every other day. The hair algae has been curling in on itself rather than spreading out and looking wispy, making it easier to remove in my bigger tank. There's so much of it clumped in my smaller tank that I don't see any way to remove it without completely removing my carpet. I might give it another week or two to see if the hair algae makes it easier to remove.

I think my frogbit is much happier with the ferts now. The other plants so far look the same. I'm really hoping the ammania gracilis will decide to put out newer and healthy leaves soon, because it still looks down in the dumps.

I'm really happy now that the hair algae is getting under control and that the rest of the plants are getting ferts. Thank you again!


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## GuppyGrouper (Jul 13, 2018)

*Hairy Algaecide*

Dose daily with Flourish Excel, at 3X the recommended strength, for two weeks - and kiss that algae goodbye. You should move your two aquaria to a site in the room that direct sunlight never touches.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Do I basically make the Excel and Thrive a daily edition to the tank permanently? I stopped for a while and the hair algae started back up.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Ryan Mosby said:


> Do I basically make the Excel and Thrive a daily edition to the tank permanently? I stopped for a while and the hair algae started back up.


I would continue the glut, since you are not using pressurized CO2. It can add quite a bit of help to the carbon needs of plants, particularly as light increases without CO2 injection. i would also continue the Thrive at levels appropriate to a low-tech setup. 

Glut definitely kills/suppresses hair algae, which is the other benefit, but it does not affect other algae types _directly_. Is it only hair algae that has returned or did you see other types return, such as BBA, GDA and GSA, particularly on the leaves? It would probably take a week or two for those to appear following discontinuation IF what I am about to explain is the case.

When plants become destabilized/unhealthy, the leaves begin to provide a rich source of nutrients for algae and, as a result, you will often see many types of algae appear on them. While hair algae is usually due to too much light without sufficient nutrients (mainly CO2), it can also benefit from failing plants. If you are seeing other forms of algae appearing, than just hair algae, it is a pretty good sign that your plants were benefiting - health wise - from the glut.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

I haven't noticed any other algae, just some hair algae in both tanks. Not a lot, but enough to be annoying and pull other plants out when I remove it. I'm also trying to make sure the part of the window where the sun shines through is covered up, too, because I know how much that can contribute.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Not sure if I should be making a new post or posting an update to this one, but here goes:

The part of my window that was giving off sunlight was boarded up, since I can't move the tanks anywhere else (small room). I forget to dose with Excel and Thrive half the time, but the hair algae has been under better control. The latest development is that recently I noticed recently a brown type of hair algae has tried taking root in the 5 gal tank. The tank hasn't been doing as well as my 2.5 gal shrimp tank, which is more green (but still without a carpet plant, because if shrimp don't uproot it, green hair algae will develop).

Every week I try to remove all the brown hair algae I can. It tries to weave itself in the roots of my frogbit and especially likes my driftwood. It definitely accumulates easily like green hair algae. I had a few days of blackout to try and improve the situation but I'm not entirely sure how to remove it. I tried using a toothbrush but chances are I'll have to take the driftwood out of the aquarium and give it a good cleaning in dechlorinated water.

There's also greenish short stuff trying to grow on the driftwood (not sure what it is, doesn't look like typical algae--it's fuzzy, but it's not hairy like hair algae).

My tank is looking a little sparse. I had christmas moss for my bonsai but it got pulled out when I tried removing all the green hair algae before. All that's left is frogbit (slowly dying, but luckily at the same rate it produces more), some kind of cryptocoryne (a real champ in survival), and my sagittaria subulata. I'm wishing the SS was more lush and dense but it looks like it's not doing so great and is in sparse patches. 

My tank is low tech. The light I'm using for my Fluval V is the one that comes with it. The floating plant divider was above the bonsai but since it was so close to the light (and making algae on the wood), I moved the divider to the other side so the light has a longer distance before it reaches anything. I keep the divider around so the betta can have a clear open spot.

1. Any tips on how to combat the algae and develop a lush green tank? Do I buy a lot more plants and hope that combats the hair algae? I'd really like to plant my bonsai look again, with christmas moss or java moss, but not if I'm going to end up losing it to hair algae. I'd definitely like a more lush carpet from the SS, too, or any kind of healthy carpet.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

"Maximum Effort!" says a certain movie version of a masked superhuman individual.. 
"Half the effort, half the results" says probably some consulting manual..
"Work smarter, not harder" says almost every manager reading from aforementioned consulting manual..

Take your pick of quotes, grit your teeth, revisit those answers in the posts before your new problems, and go dose your plants. How would you like to be fed intermittently with random days of no food? Doesn't sound too happy? Well, that's what your plants are telling you by not flourishing and algae's just there like the annoying bully sidekick to add to the taunting. Spend some time on this site if you haven't already : 3 Growth Pillars. If you have already, revisit it to refresh your memory of what you're trying to do. This ought to give you an idea of the 'whole picture' of plant growing.

You're here to raise plants... so, do it. Feed them. If you can't work in a routine, then you can only be lazy IF you are smart about it. Hire helpers to do it. Set up an autodoser. Get a nutrient rich substrate to provide food when you're not there to do so. Put in root tabs if you haven't already. Happy plants will become your helpers to prevent algae. Hire some shrimp, real siamese algae eaters, other cleanup critters (but do proper research!).

Already did all the above? Well, clearly you're plants are eating more than you are capable of handling. Time to cut down the light so they're less hungry. Time to get some plants that aren't such hogs about consumption. 

Revisiting the 3 pillars, it's all about balancing them properly to have healthy plants. You're not only NOT feeding your plants, you're not letting them respire too well by not having CO2. So, ergo, you have to work with your limitations by cutting the lights to a level where what you're providing is enough. I skimmed through this whole thread again and I realize CO2 is not something you want to get involved in. That's completely OK, but know that you have to compensate for that. Check out same said site's Low Tech Guide. There's also a massive Spec V thread here on planted tank: Let me see some fluval spec vs. See how these guys are pulling it off for inspiration. 

You're starting to hit a hump in your tank's journey and it's time to face the reality of the situation. Some languish in plant purgatory like you have in the past months .. me in the past for quite a few years, some give up the hobby here, and some manage to overcome. Time to do some serious reading. Every (err, maybe most) successful tank you will see somehow can have the 3 growth pillar theory applied to it. "Contradictory" information is not so contradictory when you understand how the theory plays into it. Maybe you'll get inspired and figure how to proceed or at least find the right things to try.

Maximum effort!  

-- and some luck..


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

Thank you very much, Ipkiss, this was very helpful. I've given some consideration to CO2 but the whole setup, cost, and the canisters for a small tank in a small bedroom makes me uncomfortable, so the low tech guide was really helpful.

It looks like my light and temperature are optimal. It sounds like the real issue is my lack of nutrients in my substrate. I plan to remove much of my Imagitarium Black Aquarium Sand (not all, I need some for my deeper slopes) and top with a few inches of ADA aquasoil.

I'll get more Christmas moss for my bonsai, since I hear it can do fine in low tech (and it'll be closer to the light).

I'm going to buy more dwarf sag for my carpet (or consider swapping out for monte carlo), get some rocks for background, and add Hydrocotyle tripartita on top of those.

When I miss out on dosing, it means I'm dosing every other day, but I'll get back to dosing daily--and if that fails, I'll looking into an auto-doser for my Excel and Thrive.

I don't have a priming mechanism but I might look into it, since sucking on the hose, well, sucks.

Question: Should I remove the pre-filter sponge? I don't have a current going through my surface that leads the water into the filter intake. I put on the pre-filter sponge because even the low flow setting pushed my betta and frogbit around. Should I remove the pre-filter sponge anyway?


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Not too sure about the pre-filter sponge. comfort of your betta is a legitimate item to consider


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

ipkiss said:


> Not too sure about the pre-filter sponge. comfort of your betta is a legitimate item to consider


After a water-change I'll test with the pre-filter sponge off and see how the betta reacts, since it's been a long while. If he's okay but the current starts pushing the frogbit around, well, I'll figure out whether to keep or lose the frogbit.

I'd like to get some high rocks in the background but I don't want to risk the betta ripping his fins. Is there a specific kind of rock sold that I can get, that's smooth? If not, maybe I'll just go for more driftwood. I tend to smooth out any points on driftwood I buy.


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## Ryan Mosby (Jan 19, 2017)

I definitely have to keep the pre-filter sponge on. Even on a low setting, my pump blew him halfway across the tank. He kept forgetting the pump was flowing and would be surprised when he ran across the current, so I put the pre-filter sponge back on. I've decided to go with another piece of driftwood rather than rocks. As with my current pieces, I'll sand off any sharp edges. Thank you for the help! I might post an update once I get the ada aquasoil in.


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