# Economical Lighting



## jesstray (Mar 17, 2005)

I used a shop light over mine along with my coralife FW aqualite and my plants grew pretty good. The shop lights are fine, but keep in mine that they don't come with a good reflector. Basically you’re going to lose quite a bit of light because its not focused into your tank. However using two sets of the shop light over your 55gal is better than nothing. Just upgrade whenever you get the chance. Till then you may look at creating your own reflector using mylar or something (just do not use aluminum).


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

It looks like the inside of the fixture is painted white. Would this be sufficient?


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## darkfury18 (Apr 1, 2006)

Yup, white is the next best thing from a mirror finish. Try hitting up Home Depot or Walmart if you can. They have a cheaper version that's only about $8 each. You can also get (2) 6700k T8 at home depot for $7. Good luck. (I'm in the same shoes as you )


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanks. This will save me alot of money. I will have to check out those Home Depot t8's If these are so cheap why are the aquarium lights so expensive? 

Does anyone else have any input?


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

I've done a lot of reading about this and it seems that aquarium lights are so expensive because they are labeled "aquarium lights" or "grow lights". That's about it. It's a convenience thing ~ rather than do the research to learn about kelvin ratings and such, the general public wants a no-brainer. So sellers give it to 'em and charge 'em for it.  It's just like rubber liner in ponds ~ Goodyear makes roofing liner and pond liner both. When they switch the production line from making roofing liner to making pond liner, they simply stop the production line, switch out the stamps in the machines that label the liner "Roofing" to "Pond - Fish safe" and crank it back up. The only other thing they change is the stamps at the end of the line that say "20cents/sq. ft." to "$1.99/sq. ft." Seriously. 

When you get your money saved up, you might want to look into AH Supply's lighting kits. I've read extensively on this forum and other webpages about lighting, and AH Supply seems to have the best lighting for the best price. Sure you can get cheaper lights, as you are doing with the shop lights (and as I'm doing at the moment with compact spiral bulbs and those cheapo silver cone-shaped reflectors from Lowe's), but both of our solutions aren't very efficient at getting light in the tank. There's a LOT of spillover into the room from my system, plus lots of restrike (light hitting the bulb again) and lots of light lost due to inefficient reflection (the silver things I'm using aren't that great of reflectors). I have one tank that has the lights mounted in regular receptacles against the white painted bottom of the shelf above ~ still not the most efficient. I'm having to use more watts because of these problems. Once I get AH Supply's kits, I can go from using 45 or 60 watts via my current setup to 36 using one of their setups including their awesome reflectors.

Oh, yeah ~ welcome to the forum! You're going to love it here. :biggrin:


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## darkfury18 (Apr 1, 2006)

I wouldn't recommend PCs anymore, if you had the money I'd recommend you go with T5 with SLRs, ie Teks etc..


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

Sorry I'm still new to this. What are PCs SRLs?

What is the difference between t5's and t12's?


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## darkfury18 (Apr 1, 2006)

Fluorescent tubes are measured in 1/8th inch increments, so T5 = 5/8 of an inch diameter, where T12 are 1.5" diameter.

PCs are power compacts, as in the AHS kits, which are basically bent T5 tubes, but because of that there is more restrike and thus less efficient than T5s.

SLRs are single len reflectors which is the secret behind T5's efficiency as almost all the light produced by the bulb is directed right into the tank.


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

darkfury18 said:


> Fluorescent tubes are measured in 1/8th inch increments, so T5 = 5/8 of an inch diameter, where T12 are 1.5" diameter.
> 
> PCs are power compacts, as in the AHS kits, which are basically bent T5 tubes, but because of that there is more restrike and thus less efficient than T5s.
> 
> SLRs are single len reflectors which is the secret behind T5's efficiency as almost all the light produced by the bulb is directed right into the tank.


ah.... I feel enlightened. Thanks darkfury


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

CampCreekTexas said:


> I've done a lot of reading about this and it seems that aquarium lights are so expensive because they are labeled "aquarium lights" or "grow lights". That's about it. It's a convenience thing ~ rather than do the research to learn about kelvin ratings and such, the general public wants a no-brainer. So sellers give it to 'em and charge 'em for it.  It's just like rubber liner in ponds ~ Goodyear makes roofing liner and pond liner both. When they switch the production line from making roofing liner to making pond liner, they simply stop the production line, switch out the stamps in the machines that label the liner "Roofing" to "Pond - Fish safe" and crank it back up. The only other thing they change is the stamps at the end of the line that say "20cents/sq. ft." to "$1.99/sq. ft." Seriously.
> 
> When you get your money saved up, you might want to look into AH Supply's lighting kits. I've read extensively on this forum and other webpages about lighting, and AH Supply seems to have the best lighting for the best price. Sure you can get cheaper lights, as you are doing with the shop lights (and as I'm doing at the moment with compact spiral bulbs and those cheapo silver cone-shaped reflectors from Lowe's), but both of our solutions aren't very efficient at getting light in the tank. There's a LOT of spillover into the room from my system, plus lots of restrike (light hitting the bulb again) and lots of light lost due to inefficient reflection (the silver things I'm using aren't that great of reflectors). I have one tank that has the lights mounted in regular receptacles against the white painted bottom of the shelf above ~ still not the most efficient. I'm having to use more watts because of these problems. Once I get AH Supply's kits, I can go from using 45 or 60 watts via my current setup to 36 using one of their setups including their awesome reflectors.
> 
> Oh, yeah ~ welcome to the forum! You're going to love it here. :biggrin:


Ive been looking at AH supply and this looks like it would be the way to go. I dont, however, have any electrical experience whatsoever (though I do consider myself a fast learner). Will this be a problem or are these thing pretty easy to set up?

Also how difficult is it to build a case to hold the lights. Anyone have any good/cheap suggestion on how to do this?

Thanks


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

I haven't bought one yet, but from what I've read both here and on the AHS site, there are detailed instructions that come with them (be sure and ask for them to make sure they're included, just in case). The case (hood), however, will be a bit more difficult unless you have some simple woodworking tools and the experience to use them, or know someone who does. They're really simple to make ~ just a box made to specific dimensions AHS gives you. But if you don't have ANY experience cutting and working with wood, I wouldn't try it yourself. Do you know someone who has this kind of experience? And maybe the tools?


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

I have experience working with wood. The problem is I that I don't have the tools. I may be able to find someone who does. I stumbled across this light. Will it provide enough light to grow HC in a 55g (130 watts)?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

hello, can you pass on all the info you get on lighting to me im in the same boat and at the failing end of the spectrum , and building a hood shouldnt bee too difficult any high school level text book on woodworking will contain enough information to give guidance on how to build somthing suitable with modest tools failing that, use a load of duct tape and use the line "funtion over form"


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## WibblyPig (May 10, 2007)

darkfury18 said:


> Yup, white is the next best thing from a mirror finish.




Strange as it may seem, white is better than a true mirror. It goes

Polished Aluminum
Matte White
Mirror 

(something about the light refracting through the glass twice)

Just line the interior of the shop light with aluminum foil (spread flat and get the wrinkles out) and you'll gain 10% lux over the white interior. If you want to spend a few bucks, buy some of the solar tube extensions they sell at Lowes or HD and use them to line the light fixture. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=104634-58-104634&lpage=none

Make a brake from some wood pieces and you'll have your own TEK reflectors.


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

octopus44 said:


> I have experience working with wood. The problem is I that I don't have the tools. I may be able to find someone who does.


 And if not, maybe you can pick up a jig saw or cheap circular at a pawn shop? That and a screw gun or even a drill and you're in business.



> I stumbled across this light. Will it provide enough light to grow HC in a 55g (130 watts)?


 I don't know about growing HC under that wattage. It's about 2 1/3 wpg and I think that's considered low to medium light. I'm not positive, but I think HC needs high light, which is about 4 wpg if I remember right. But then again, Tom Barr says there are only a very few plants that won't grow under 2.5 wpg ~ don't know if HC is one of those or not.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

CampCreekTexas said:


> And if not, maybe you can pick up a jig saw or cheap circular at a pawn shop? That and a screw gun or even a drill and you're in business.
> .


forget that, more money and more hassle, 
making a hood (following handy hints from my old school text book).
you will need 
set square 
pencil
timber suitable kinds include pine, maple, walnut and plywood 
get the top section cut by the woodshop if they wont go somewhere else
pva woodglue 10minute setting varity 
hand saw (NOT a hack saw)
panel pins/nails depending on thickness
sand paper (most important part as far as finish is concerned)
and remember meausure twice cut once!

ill do a picture tutorial when i make my hood at the weekend. till then its nothing too complex using hand tools just dont think fancy it only has to be a rectangular box at the end of the day

good luck though its always worth it if you take your time and have a look at basic techniques


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

garuf said:


> forget that, more money and more hassle,
> making a hood (following handy hints from my old school text book).
> you will need
> set square
> ...


Yeah, this is starting to get more expensive than just buying a pre-made light. Grrrr every time I find a cheaper alternative it ends up being to good to be true.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

mmm i know the feeling well
the tools you need arnt expencive and youll use them again and again but it could be your best bet to look in the local shop ofter they have hoods suitable and cheap because theyre mass produced

i wouldnt turn down diy often friends or family have the tools and will help for beer money, hell id make you one for the cost of wood but your stateside and im uk. dont give up they'll be someone/somthing :smile:


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## CampCreekTexas (Feb 28, 2007)

Isn't that a cool idea, Garuf!! Once painted, the wood glue won't let go due to humidity, right? If you make sure the cracks are filled/covered well, it seems like it wouldn't. I'm lucky in that my stepsons are trim carpenters, so they're making my hoods for me, but that is a great idea for someone who isn't so lucky.


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## octopus44 (Apr 23, 2007)

I will still have to buy the wood, glue, handsaw, and a hanging system (a hood will make my tank to hot). After all of this I will only end up saving a few bucks. I think I may just get a pre-made light.


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

WibblyPig said:


> Just line the interior of the shop light with aluminum foil


According to Rex foil is the worst thing that you can use on this type of setup.


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## WibblyPig (May 10, 2007)

And why is that? A reflective metal surface increases the lux output by about 10 %

http://www.thekrib.com/Lights/lights-wozniak.html
http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Lights/
http://www.thekrib.com/Lights/reflectors.html#0
http://www.rcarchive.com/fish/hood/

Is it optimal? No. But if you're on a budget, it's cheaper than skylight tubing. I've seen it used on ghetto reef hoods with no problems (one was 18 months old).


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## jesstray (Mar 17, 2005)

WibblyPig said:


> Strange as it may seem, white is better than a true mirror. It goes
> 
> Polished Aluminum
> Matte White
> ...


I've heard that Aluminum, particularly aluminum foil, is a poor reflector because it diffuses light.


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## WibblyPig (May 10, 2007)

Read the links above. 


_ For fluorescent lighting, I measured and found that plain aluminum foil will produce about 10% more light than a clean white reflector. (Less light is is scattered in a silver like mirror compared to a enamel white reflector. A white reflector tends to diffuse light in all directions. _


FWIW, Tek & Sunlight Supply reflectors are both aluminum.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

WibblyPig said:


> Read the links above.


Indeed, *everyone* should read the links, as they provide all the information and data you should need!



> Of course, there are better materials besides aluminum foil to line the inside of a reflector.





> I also tried to check the lights in a Coralife metal halide and fluorescent fixture to see if an "expensive" ballast and polished reflector did anything, but the bulb spacing was very different giving readings which could not be meaningfully compared to the first three.





> These figures are from an old hydroponics source. Unfortunately I
> know longer have the URL. These figures, represent the percentange
> of light reflected.
> 
> ...


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## WibblyPig (May 10, 2007)

Of course, if you would read a little further, you would come across this:

Light Intensity DATA.
Comparison between White, Aluminum Foil, & Dark Reflectors (All values are in units of Lux) Position White Metal Aluminum Foil Black Cloth Position White Metal Aluminum Foil Position White Metal Aluminum Foil 
1L 2500 2750 1500 1C 2500 2750 1R 2600 2750 
2L 3750 4250 2250 2C 3600 3875 2R 3750 4000 
3L 4250 4700 2625 3C 4250 4900 3R 4200 4750 
4L 3750 4000 2250 4C 3700 4250 4R 3750 4000 
5L 2500 2875 1500 5C 2750 2750 5R 2600 2600 

which actually shows the foil doing a better job than the white paint. 

I never stated that foil was the best - in fact, I stated that there are better options but foil is better than white paint. 

Thus far, nobody has posted anything that proves otherwise.


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## jebarj90 (Mar 11, 2007)

Because what Rex says goes.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

WibblyPig said:


> Of course, if you would read a little further, you would come across this:
> 
> Light Intensity DATA.
> Comparison between White, Aluminum Foil, & Dark Reflectors (All values are in units of Lux) Position White Metal Aluminum Foil Black Cloth Position White Metal Aluminum Foil Position White Metal Aluminum Foil
> ...




----



http://www.thekrib.com/Lights/reflectors.html said:


> So here are the results (in lux):
> 
> Distance No refl. White Alum. Triton
> in inches paper foil
> ...





http://www.marijuanahydro.com/growingindoors.html said:


> Some grow guides mention Aluminum foil as a useful material to aid grow room reflection. Some have even mentioned using it to cover up anything that isn't reflective like electrical cords, sockets, reflectors and pots. Aluminum foil is actually a very poor reflector, highly heat conductive and very dangerous to use in a grow room. Aluminum foil only has 30 to 60 percent reflectivity at best, raises the temperature of the item it is used on (the reflector, pot lid, electrical cord, wall etc.), and can burn easily. Avoid using aluminum foil. It is also hard to keep clean and tears easily. Growers who line the walls with Aluminum foil will eventually find the place falling down around them. If you have no option but to use aluminum foil then it is suggested that you use the dull side rather than the shiny side. In the meantime, make sure that you place an order for a cheap can of flat white paint that will give you almost 99 percent reflectivity for a couple of years.


I added that last quote for fun, since the first does my job twice over! Now where's that smiley...


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

The guys with the light meters showed that the SPECTRAL aluminum reflectors (AHS) worked great. Aluminum foil is not spectral aluminum, it is not polished, and their light meters demonstrated that as posted on the APD (http://www.thekrib.com/ for the archives). 

Now please keep the conversation polite.


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## WibblyPig (May 10, 2007)

Now, what was the entire point of this thread? Using a shop light for a budget lighting. The numbers I provided show that when using a *shop light*, lining it with foil increases the lux in the tank. The numbers you provided show that when using a * single lamp fixture* white is better than foil. In other words, your numbers have absolutely no relevance to this thread.

*SCMurphy* See above - the debate is between white and foil in a shop light fixture. I had mentioned earlier that making reflectors for a T-8 bulb is entirely doable using specular aluminum material available from Lowes/HD and a brake but that may be beyond his budget as this was all about "Economical Lighting".


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## ruki (May 28, 2007)

I still vote for 48 inch long shop lights that have electronic ballasts. Long term, this is cheap because of:
* Cheap initial fixture cost
* Cheap replacement bulbs
* Lower electricity bill compared with shorter tubes and inefficent Power Compact

Some people use mylar film to improve the reflector. This makes more sense to me than aluminum foil. Replace the ballast and over-drive the tubes if you want much more light. 

There's a shop light with a decent curve for a reflector at hardware stores now. Also has an electronic ballasr. Specs are at http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/13-38-shop-lights/performance-plus-shop-light-631971.aspx


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

I use the cheapo shop lights from Home Depot over my 40g breeder. Instead of overdriving the bulbs I decided just to go with 2 fixtures (four 25w bulbs total) so I could mix and match the colors I wanted.

It's really not a bad light setup. There are better ways but I'm in it for about $50. That's two fixtures along with 10 36" ZooMed bulbs off eBay. If I wanted to overdrive the bulbs, it would cost another $15 to do so. 

The entire goal of my tank was to be cheap cheap cheap.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

WibblyPig said:


> *SCMurphy* See above - the debate is between white and foil in a shop light fixture. I had mentioned earlier that making reflectors for a T-8 bulb is entirely doable using specular aluminum material available from Lowes/HD and a brake but that may be beyond his budget as this was all about "Economical Lighting".


I did see the above debate. I also saw the debate on APD. Even though you need(ed) correcting, not everything I said was directed at you.

The tube you recommend looks like a good option, I agree, get it cut in half(and remove any sharp edges) and there are two nice reflectors, a little bending and it is even easy to make them nearly parabolic. 

Aluminum foil is not worth fighting with to use as a reflector.


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## WibblyPig (May 10, 2007)

What's ADP?


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

It's my misspelling of APD.


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