# Pressurized C02



## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I am thinking about using pressurized C02 on my 20g tank. Its basically around a $100 setup if you guys wanted to know. 

Here are the parts i'm getting, please let me know if i'm missing anything.

- 2.5 lb Tank = $10.00
- JBJ Regulator = $70.00
- Ehiem Diffuser = $20.00

Is it hard to setup? Its my first time ever thinking about getting pressurized C02 so I want to know how it works before thinking about buying it.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

This is a good spot for info: http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High Pressure CO2

You will need a needle valve, check valve, tubing, bubble counter (easy to make).

Not really hard to set up, although I'm not familiar with your diffuser.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

jart said:


> You will need a needle valve, check valve, tubing, bubble counter (easy to make)


The JBJ has a needle valve, check valve and bubble counter.


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## Ironfin (Aug 11, 2004)

The JBJ regulator already comes with the needle valve and bubble counter which has a build in check valve. When you buy the regulator you might want to but the CO2 tubing at the same time. Wow, that 2.5lb tank is cheap. Filled ?


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## Ironfin (Aug 11, 2004)

I just cannot type as fast as Troy....


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Jart - Thanks for the link.

Ironfin - No the 2.5lb tank won't be filled.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

glass-gardens.com said:


> The JBJ has a needle valve, check valve and bubble counter.


Ummm...  then that is a great price, IMO. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Great price on the 2.5# tank there. Just retired mine myself (picked up a 10#) and it'll be hard to find one priced like so.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

The only problem I have is that I don't know where I can fill it up...


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> Jart - Thanks for the link.
> 
> Ironfin - No the 2.5lb tank won't be filled.


One thing, ask what the hydro test date on the tank is


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## snowman (Mar 17, 2005)

You should be able to get it filled at a homebrew shop or a welding equipment store. You could also check the yellow pages.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

A friend of mine is still looking one for me so i'll keep that in mind as I save up


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

A 20g won't necessarily take a lot of CO2, but IMO, a bigger CO2 tank is better. This is largely because you don't need to re-fill it as often. I puchased a 10lb for my 46g. My first tank lasted me around 7 months. So, assuming our usage rates are similar (not really a good assumption, but...), that tank will last around 4-5 months. So, you're refilling it nearly 3 times a year. Granted, a 2.5lb for $10 IS a super deal. But, depending on where you have to go to refill it, add'l time costs could add up.

Whatever you end up with, you'll love the pressurized CO2!

Just something to consider,
Brian.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Also look for a fire extinguisher shop. I like to be able to get my tank filled while I wait and NOT get an exchange.

You might find that many places that do exchanges only won't have a 2.5 lb cylinder on had. Also you may find it's as expensive to get a 2.5 filled as a 5 lb filled.

And you really need to know the hydro test date on that tank. If it's expired it's another $20-$30 to get it tested. 

I can get a FILLED 5 lb cylinder with a recent hydro test date locally for $50. So compare that to your local prices.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Perhaps my experience with a CO2 tank is outside the norm. You might want to follow this thread regarding CO2 tank refill times:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16445


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks so much for all the advice! I'll be sure to do as follows. My dad actually has 2 fire extinguishers in our home, so that could be another reason for me to go to the fire ex. store.


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## Gunter95 (Mar 15, 2005)

Now I have a kegerator at home. so the question is do I use my C02 tank for my plants or for my beer? hmmmmmmmm.....

Actually I could do both. The plants will just be without CO2 for the duration of a party approx 12 hours.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Gunter95 said:


> Now I have a kegerator at home. so the question is do I use my C02 tank for my plants or for my beer? hmmmmmmmm.....
> 
> Actually I could do both. The plants will just be without CO2 for the duration of a party approx 12 hours.



Nope. You could rig the bottle to feed both.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Okay, back to this thread! Just a couple more questions then i'll have my mind on a pressurized C02 setup.

When setting up a pressurized C02 system, does the tank have to be a certain kind of tank? or can it just be any ordinary C02 tank?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Any standard tested CO2 cylinder with a standard CGA 320 valve will work.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thank you, to sum this all up. How do you guys think about my list?

New Equipment Order:
1.) 5lb Tank = $69.95 or 2.5lb Tank = $64.95
2.) JBJ Regulator = $81.99
3.) Ehiem Diffuser = $20.00
4.) C02 Air Tubing = $6.90

Total = $178.84 w/ 5lb Tank or $173.84


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## bigfishy (Dec 31, 2004)

All seems good, but to be honest I think the JBJ regs are really poor quality. Since I've owned one, it hasn't given an accurate PSI readout one single time. $81 seems kinda pricey for that unit. I would think about a better quality regulator such as can be found here: http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/regulators/twoproduct.shtml .

Then add a (GOOD) needle-valve and cheap bubble counter. I've heard Clifford needle valves are really good. The one on the JBJ is basically junk with a mediocre adjustment knob.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I'll have to hear a few more opinions on it.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I use standard beer regulators. They run around $40-$50. Then I add a Clippard needle valve. Build my own bubble counter and reactors and I'm good to go.


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## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

I just reciently set up my first pressurized system, after hassling with a DIY CO2 setup for too many years. I just got tired of the constant maintanence and mixing.

Got my regulator and pH controler as well as other stuff from aquabotanic. They offer a choice of the JBJ or Milwaukee MA957 Regulator and SMS 122 PH controller. A bubble counter and solenoid with a needle valve is included in the MA957 package.

Not really knowing too much about all this equipment I went with a regulator MFG that I have seen used in the shop I work at. So I went with the MA957/SMS122 kit. The kits also include calibration liquids also. And as for a diffuser, still using my original sintered ceramic diffuser which I got at a LFS for really cheap.

The set up went very well and I am pleased with the operation of the system, which has been running for about 5-6 weeks now. I have not mixed a single the in that time, which leaves more time to enjoy my aquascape!!!


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Now would you guys go with the 2.5lb or 5lb tank for my 20g?


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## cprroy73 (Nov 10, 2004)

I would go with a 5lb or more. Especially if you are getting a larger tank in the near future.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I'd go with the 5lb as well. Seems like a perfect size.

Mike


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

A 5lb bottle lasts me about 7 months on my 75G and its running 24/7. 
The 5lb bottles just save you having to make the refill runs more frequently and are also easy to hide in a cabinet which is good because I just haven't found one yet that matches my dining room decor... :icon_bigg 

Get a 5lb'er... you will regret a 2 1/2.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> I just haven't found one yet that matches my dining room decor...


You mean as patient as she is, Mrs. Buck still won't let you get a 20lber? :hihi: 

Mike


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

LMAO !

She would let me get one Mike but I would be sleepin with it outside... :tongue:


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Alright, 5lb is good. Its going to take me quite a while to save up this much =(. I don't need to setup Preussurized C02 right away do I? Can I just have no C02 and just have lots of fast growing stem plants at the begining?

P.S: One thing I regret, not researching before buying =( I have wasted lots of money and hopefully I will be able to invest it back after getting Preussurized C02.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Hey,

Does anybody know how many ounces is in a 5lb tank? How much does it usually costs you guys to fill your tanks up?


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Bump ...

Anyone here have JBJ Regulators? How do you like them?

Edit: Don't you hate it when you plan things and then tell your parents? I shouldn't have told my dad I was going to get Pressurized C02. I'm going to find a way so that I get him to let me buy it >_<.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

google is your friend when it comes to the oz to lb conversion...why do you wonder?  

As far as pressurized...tell your Dad that this is an "investment" and that it is "financially wiser" to invest in a system that doesn't waste sugar, yeast, etc and that once the system is set up correctly it is very simple to run....basically "watch, grow, prune". The initial shock will be the price of the cylinder and regulator...the regulator should last forever and can be used for other purposes should you take a break from this hobby. (once you turn 21 you can enjoy homebrew beers). Refills don't cost that much 18-20 bucks. 

As far as what type of regulator? I like the JBJ because of the set working pressure, built in check valve, and it seems easier than the Milwaukee to fine tune your bubble count.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks for replying to my posts. I will definately convince him so that I can get the pressurized system. I just found out some local welding stores I may get my tank from (lps swap them for $15). 

I just found out that it 16oz is in a pound, but I won't be using that method to fill my tank up anymore. 

I will give further information about this once my last 2 days of finals are over!


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

Jdinh04 said:


> I just found out that it 16oz is in a pound..



roud: Good luck on your finals Dude!!!
jB


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks, for finding that out and tanks for wishing me gluck!


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> Good luck on your finals Dude!!!


Ditto that sentiment!

Now get off Planted Tank and start studying! :hihi: 

Mike


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Hahaha, 

2 more finals left, Math and Health >_<. I don't know how much studying I will do on them but I will do some.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Alright just a quick note,

Would you guys prefer the Milwauke regulator or the JBJ? I believe they come with all the same things except the Milwauke, you can control the regulator and set the psi at what ever level you want and JBJ is set at 20psi.


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

If this is so..... I am a control freak, so I would want the one that allows you to adjust. HEHE
jB


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## random_alias (Jun 28, 2005)

Just called a local place and they told me they'd fill my 10lb cylinder for $8 plus tax. How sweet is that...if it's true.


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## Clone (Feb 29, 2004)

I have a Milwaukee, but if I was to do it over again I get the JBJ. Without the fixed working pressure a momentary laps of judgement could ruin the regulator and the JBJ has a check valve built in. You will find complaints with the needle valve on both regulators, so all things being equal get the JBJ.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I guess it'll cost a bit more for shipping, Milwauke regulator on aquabotanic is $81.99 shipped.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Add me as another JBJ user. I havent had a single problem with it.


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## Cheeseybacon (Feb 13, 2005)

I have the milwaukee. I guess I'm a control freak too, because I love the thing. It was a little tricky getting it setup, but overall I have absolutely no complaints about it.


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## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

I would assume you finished your finals!!! Just wondering how you did on your math final since you did not know how many oz in a lb. did you pass!!! :icon_bigg HEEHEEHEE!!!




Jdinh04 said:


> Hahaha,
> 
> 2 more finals left, Math and Health >_<. I don't know how much studying I will do on them but I will do some.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Aquaphish - Yup, I finished the finals long ago. I got a 3 pt on the math final, I am not good with measurements so thats why I was confused. I heard thats there 16oz in a lb?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Jdinh04 said:


> Aquaphish - Yup, I finished the finals long ago. I got a 3 pt on the math final, I am not good with measurements so thats why I was confused. I heard thats there 16oz in a lb?



Hmm... not always. Ever hear of a troy pound?


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Rex Grigg said:


> Hmm... not always. Ever hear of a troy pound?


 :icon_roll I used to have to know all those conversions, drams, minims, and the like to and from metric by heart in college. Glad I'm in the real world now where I can just look it up!


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Rex Grigg said:


> Hmm... not always. Ever hear of a troy pound?


It sounds familiar, doesn't 12 ounces equals to a troy pound or something like that?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

It's funny everyone thinks that. But it's actually 13.16571352 ounces to the troy pound. There are however 12 troy ounces to the troy pound. One troy ounce is 1.097142794 regular ounces.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thats the thing that confuses me, there are so many different types of conversions. Reason why I asked is becuase a place sells 9oz of C02 for $3 which is too much. Instead I may just have to swap with the lps.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Hi guys, I just bought my JBJ regulator on ebay from aquatic-store.com, it was $69.99 + $9.99 shipping & handling, saved me quite a lot if I were to buy it from the online store at $81.99 + shipping + handling.


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## jmelnek (Dec 20, 2004)

What are you getting for a tank?

I ended up getting a 5lb filled for $60.00

Josh


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

jmelnek said:


> What are you getting for a tank?
> 
> I ended up getting a 5lb filled for $60.00
> 
> Josh


I was planning on getting a 5lb aluminum C02 tank from www.beveragefactory.com for $62.00 shipped but if you can get it for me at $60 filled, I don't mind doing that!


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Before you buy a nice new shiny aluminum tank make sure you have a CO2 source that will fill and not swap.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Rex Grigg said:


> Before you buy a nice new shiny aluminum tank make sure you have a CO2 source that will fill and not swap.


Yeah I know, it sucks to swap a nice brand new tank doesn't it?

Hopefully Josh can hook me up with that 5lb filled for $60 deal, that will take a lot of weight off my shoulders.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

By the way, how am I able to connect the regulator to the tank w/o having some of the C02 to slip out?


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

You will attach the CO2 regulator with the bottle closed. You open the CO2 bottle once the regulator is attached.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18272

Mike


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

nice like mike.

John- the regulator needs to be tightened down with a wrench plus there is a washer that goes between the regulator and the co2 bottle. If you like when i move i can take some pictures for you.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks for the help, i'll take a look at the link. Marc, that'll be great but i'm getting my pressurized C02 this week and you won't be moving until the end of July


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

My regulator came in the mail today, however something doesn't seem right. 

Here is a picture, is this all really comes with the jbj regulator?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Just missing the CO2 tank and some tubing :fish:


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Yup, will be getting a 5lb tank filled for $45.00 soon! hmm... wonder if anyone would spare me some air tubing, not sure when I will order my planting tools off Dr. Foster & Smith.


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## jmelnek (Dec 20, 2004)

Looks exactly like mine. I will help you sunday...

Josh


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Sweet, see you then!


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Alright guys, I am down to one last thing. I've got everything thats needed, co2 tank, regulator, and air tubing. Would you guys use a bubble ladder or a glass diffuser?


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> Alright guys, I am down to one last thing. I've got everything thats needed, co2 tank, regulator, and air tubing. Would you guys use a bubble ladder or a glass diffuser?


Neither...an external reactor...less stuff inside the tank (bubble ladder), doesn't get clogged (glass diffuser), and easy to make.


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## Clone (Feb 29, 2004)

I agree with Georgiadawgger an inline reactor is the way to go. Your dad, friend or family member may have scrap pieces of PVC laying around so you can build it your self, cheap.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I have thought about it and a inline reactor isn't just for me, i've heard good things about it but I really don't want my co2 and filtration to collide. It will be difficult for me to keep my co2 at a stable reading when ever I am cleaning the filter, something that Marc told me and I was thinking the same as well.


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## jmelnek (Dec 20, 2004)

I am using a ladder right now but want to switch to a more effective method...


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I plan on using a ladder as well, but i might give the glass diffuser otherwise I bought it for no reason >_<.


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## jmelnek (Dec 20, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> I plan on using a ladder as well, but i might give the glass diffuser otherwise I bought it for no reason >_<.


I wouldn't might taking a gander at that diffuser of yours...


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

jmelnek said:


> I wouldn't might taking a gander at that diffuser of yours...


I'm going to plan on doing an experiment, but once I am done i'll let you know if I want to keep it or not.


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## jmelnek (Dec 20, 2004)

thats fine I would just like to see one up close...


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

No problem, i'll have it at the door when you stop by. Nothing fantastic though.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

For a 20 gal tank the ladder might be a decent solution.

Couple of things to keep in mind: Put it in a spot where it is not too obvious and detracts from your aquascape, where plants don't grow into it, and where you have good circulation so the CO2 gets distributed through the tank.


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## JeffB (May 5, 2005)

Jdinh04 said:


> I have thought about it and a inline reactor isn't just for me, i've heard good things about it but I really don't want my co2 and filtration to collide. It will be difficult for me to keep my co2 at a stable reading when ever I am cleaning the filter, something that Marc told me and I was thinking the same as well.



I have an in-line reactor (DIY) with pressurized C02 feeding into it at the output of a Rena XP1. It only takes approx 30 minutes to clean the filter. I just kill the power to the regulator(taking it off line). I have not had any issues with ph fluctuations. It takes a while for the C02 to outgas from the water. If you are using a cannister filter and keeping the water surface calm, the system is pretty stable.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I'm probably am going to stick with the ladder and i'll probably sell the glass diffuser, but not until I try my experiment on which one is more sufficient. My rotala indica that I got from John B. is really growing and i'm thinking about using it to cover the bubble ladder.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Okay guys, co2 tank should be coming tommorow. However, I believe my biggest wrench is a 7/8, and that is slightly small but somehow it can get a grip on the nutt. If I can't find a wrench big enough is there anything esle that I could try?

Should these be the steps taken?

1.) Unscrew nut from bubble counter, slide through tubing, and tighten nut.
2.) Unscrew nut from needle valve, screw-in bubble counter to needle valve. 
3.) Fill in bubble counter half way w/ water.
4.) Place plastic o-ring in between regulator and co2 tank.
5.) Unscrew needle vavle knob.
6.) Open co2 tank.
7.) Slowly begin placing back the needle valve knob.
8.) Plug in solenoid.
9.) Hook up to diffuser/reactor.
10.) Adjust bubble per second, finished?


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## Bonsai_Swamp (Sep 11, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> However, I believe my biggest wrench is a 7/8, and that is slightly small but somehow it can get a grip on the nutt.


DO NOT try this. This nut needs a lot of force on it to seal properly, and you WILL round the nut if you don't use the correct size wrench. 

Normally an inch and an eighth wrench is needed. However since the JBJ is German, perhaps the nut needs a metric wrench? Someone on this board will know, I'm sure. 

$5 at whatever your equivalent of Canadian Tire is will get you the correct size wrench. You can lose that much in gas in short order if the connection leaks.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

No sweat, dad just showed me a bunch more wrenches and one is adjustable so I think I will be fine. 

Thanks.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Woo hoo! Thanks to Josh, I finally aquired my very first Co2 tank.

*Edited:* After a nice step by step conversation with Marc on the phone, I was able to easily set up my pressurized co2 system. Rate is at 1 bubble/3-5 seconds, I will start with my experiment tommorow, starting with the hagen bubble ladder!


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I started taking water parameters today for ph and kh, here are the readings before light:

Ph: 6.6
Kh: 4.0
Co2: 30ppm


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

OMG!!! After checking my waters, I took a glance at the co2 tank and noticed that 2/3 of the co2 is gone! I made sure that there wasn't any leaks, everything was tighten.

What to do?!


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Check again, John!

You have to have a leak!

Mike


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Could the leak be caused by placing 2 plastic o-rings?


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## jmelnek (Dec 20, 2004)

Jdinh04 said:


> Could the leak be caused by placing 2 plastic o-rings?


That is how mine is and my tank pressure is all the way up... I hope my advice did not cause this... Did you do a soapy water test on all the connections? Check your tubing for any cracks or leaks.


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

I seem to remember using only one washer, but i dont know if there is a right way. Either way, you SHOULD do the soapy water test to see where your leak is.

jB


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

jmelnek said:


> That is how mine is and my tank pressure is all the way up... I hope my advice did not cause this... Did you do a soapy water test on all the connections? Check your tubing for any cracks or leaks.


Josh, I don't take the blame on you. I know you didn't cause it to leak. I'll do the soapy water test.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Swap for a new tank today, hopefully no more leaks.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

john did you find a leak at all? Also dont use teflone tape...just make sure the regulator is on the tank tight!


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I did the soapy water test, it was difficult since the regulator was in the way but I didn't see any bubbles forming. However I have a hard time adjusting the bubble per second, it was easy the first time but I had to lock it in order to turn the tank on. But I have it at probably 1bps at the moment, I had it at 1 bubble every 2-3 seconds earlier, but it slowed down and eventually stopped so I had to turn it to 1bps. Didn't use any telfon tape this time since I didn't have any, and I only used 1 plastic o-ring so hopefully it'll do the job. I think putting 2 allows the regulator not to be on as tight as using 1 so maybe thats why. I double checked the bubble counter, made sure everything was tight, so hopefully no more leaks! If so, looks like it will be another trip to the welding store, and someone to help me =)


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Yeah just take that wrench and make sure its on tight! Im almost sure thats where the problem was...


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Yeah did that, I went as tight as I could. Hopefully I don't see an empty tank


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