# Fertilizer Nutrient Ratios



## PhySix66 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hi!

I have searched the site for a topic that discusses this question, but did not found anything in relations to it, so I opened this Thread to ask away:

What is the ideal ratio (ranges) between all the Nutrients (macros and micros alike)?

4 exampel(this is what I use):
NO3O4:K - 6:1:6
Ca:Mg:K - 2:1,1:1 (for GH boost)
Mg:K:Fe - 11:10:1 (for soft water) 1:10:1 (for hard water)
Fe:Mn:B:Zn:Cu:Mo - 100:50:30:20:1:2
Mo:Co:Ni:Se:V:I:Sn:F - 2:1:1:1:1:1:1 (or less)

The problem is that there are about a dosen mixtures on the web.
Another example:
Mg:K ratio
In general term Mg level must be higher then K so 1,1:1 should be the min ratio(except if the tap water is hard and untreated) but what is the max level? 10:1?
I have the same dilemma with K:Fe ratio, K must be higher but how mutch?

Let the brainstorm begin!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I'd not worry about ratios and instead worry about the most limiting nutrient, since that is what determines growth. Ratios are important when you are talking about fertilizing 10,000 acers of corn...........since fertilizer cost are importnat at that scale, for us, the cost of fertilizer is near zero, insignificant.

See Liebig's law of the Minimum.

Even Soil fertilizer and mineral Nutrition courses/text book make little fan fare about ratios, these tend to be marketing sales for home gardeners.


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## PhySix66 (Dec 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reply!

I get it why this Law of Minimum is very importaint. 

But I worrie about the ratios, because I've heard that an excess of someting, for example Boron can cause Iron deficiency, and I start to add extra Iron but it won't help because not the Iron is the problem but the Boron that blocks it's uptake...
Is this a real thing, can this happen or its info wrong?

PhySix66


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

Usually micronutrients come in a mix that already has the ratios figured out. Here's what I do:
1 part CSM+B (micronutrients) and 1 part Iron in one bottle
1 part Monopotassium phosphate and 2 parts Potassium nitrate (since both of these have potassium in them, you don't usually need to add any more) in another bottle

Tom will recommend dosing as much as you can without getting toxicities, others will recommend dosing the least you can, or only dosing if you see deficiencies. As long as you have plenty of CO2, you can have success with either method.


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## PhySix66 (Dec 16, 2011)

Yes so I see on most of the sites. PreMixed fertillizers are almost as easy to use as commercial liquid ferts. But I like a challenge, so I've bought all the nessary bacis chemicals for my diy fertilizer and it turns out I've saved some money in the long run.
This is why I'm so curious about nutrient ratios, recommended ppm levels in the tank, and what happpends if there is an excess of some element.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I can't recall any problem proven to be from having an excess of any of the fertilizer elements, other than an excess of carbon (CO2) or ammonia being deadly for fish. There are lots of articles and papers on terrestrial plant fertilizing, possibly with problems caused by having the wrong amounts of some of the elements, but none that i recall about aquatic plants.


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

PhySix66 said:


> Yes so I see on most of the sites. PreMixed fertillizers are almost as easy to use as commercial liquid ferts. But I like a challenge, so I've bought all the nessary bacis chemicals for my diy fertilizer and it turns out I've saved some money in the long run.
> This is why I'm so curious about nutrient ratios, recommended ppm levels in the tank, and what happpends if there is an excess of some element.


How do you save money doing that? I bought enough premixed ferts to last me maybe 20 years for about $50 shipped.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

PhySix66 said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> I get it why this Law of Minimum is very importaint.
> 
> ...


I've never been able to verify a single hypothesis claim with aquatic plants about these ratios........not one and I've have done many over a no# of years.......and falsified each of them. The onus is on the claimee to show some serious support for ratios being important and to show that limitation was not causing the effect. Poor independence in the test method plague hobbyists.

No control is provided in every case.

I think many write about their own speculations and observations and what they think might be the case..........but we do not know many things.......but......we can test ratios rather easily.

This we can rule some things out..........and then move on to some other possible cause for bad growth, algae, poor color etc........We can never account for every possible mistake or know every cause......but we can rule many things out.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Hoppy said:


> I can't recall any problem proven to be from having an excess of any of the fertilizer elements, other than an excess of carbon (CO2) or ammonia being deadly for fish. There are lots of articles and papers on terrestrial plant fertilizing, possibly with problems caused by having the wrong amounts of some of the elements, but none that i recall about aquatic plants.


Copper.......excellent weed killer at 1.0ppm or higher.........fish killer and invert killer also, and algae killer.........

the other trace metals also....but not as tested or as good as copper.........


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Fishly said:


> How do you save money doing that? I bought enough premixed ferts to last me maybe 20 years for about $50 shipped.


+1

DIY ferts are why folks use it, it cost a lot of $ for water......with a tiny bit of ferts in it.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

If there is a "perfect" cocktail of Marcos & Micros we'd all be using it and there wouldn't be much competition other than price.

IMHO anyone of us can start a low dose macro mix and a balance micro and have good results with good basic maint. There are too many individual variances for a true one size fits all answer. The best looking planted tanks are maintained by folks that have attained balance in that system. That balance is part knowledge, part experience and part luck.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

DogFish said:


> If there is a "perfect" cocktail of Marcos & Micros we'd all be using it and there wouldn't be much competition other than price.
> 
> IMHO anyone of us can start a low dose macro mix and a balance micro and have good results with good basic maint. There are too many individual variances for a true one size fits all answer. The best looking planted tanks are maintained by folks that have attained balance in that system. That balance is part knowledge, part experience and part luck.


And ferts are not a large player in any of that....general care is.

I've never found ferts to picky....and they are quite forgiving, if I missed a dosing, or switched one fert for another.....I found not real difference.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Talking about balance.... Is it true each plants have their own specific nutrients ratio? ie plant species A need more nitrogen than species B... Like animals some need more fat on their diet than other animals in order to survive. 



Thought on this? So yes maybe look for defficiency then dose up whatever is lacking.

Idk what im thinking lol


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

I think some plants (swords?) like lots of nitrogen, but there's one (can't remember the name right now) that does best with less than 10ppm nitrate. And red plants often need extra iron to bring out their color. So yes, some plants do need different amounts of certain nutrients. But I think that is more of a difference in deficiency/toxicity levels than a difference in ratios. For example, in that plant I mentioned, changing the ratio of potassium to nitrogen won't make it do better if there's too much nitrogen.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Part of balance is the the harmony of the flora & fauna in the tank. An aquascape of plants with basically the same growth requirements is going to be easier to maintain.


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## PhySix66 (Dec 16, 2011)

Thanks everyone!
The other day I hade the same debate(between my and my self  ) as sayurasem wrote about the need of different plants. And came to the same conclusion as Fishly. This lead me to realise that it is neraly impossible to make the "perfect" fertilizer, witch is ideal for all tank. I would need to calculate the specific needs for all the plants in the tank...
plantbrain: In general care did you mean like: suficient light, CO2, circulation/filtration and fertilization?


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