# Help with Algae Bloom



## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

Have you recently made a change in your tank? Have you had algae before recently? Is it a sudden outbreak of algae? If so it’s probably some inbalance in your tank. Let me know what changes you’ve made recently.


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## Mark Fisher (Dec 29, 2011)

Are you adding fertilizers for your plants? You should be. How has their grown been?


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

finnystar2992 said:


> Have you recently made a change in your tank? Have you had algae before recently? Is it a sudden outbreak of algae? If so it’s probably some inbalance in your tank. Let me know what changes you’ve made recently.


I havent had this much before no. Only the normal appearance on glass after a week or so which I wipe away. Only recent changes are the ones Ive listed in the post, the most recent being the reduction in photoperiod.



> Are you adding fertilizers for your plants? You should be. How has their grown been?


Nope I don't. Plants have been doing fine and growing quite well, only thing now is that algae is growing too well  and there's algae all over the plants.


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

WaldoDude said:


> I havent had this much before no. Only the normal appearance on glass after a week or so which I wipe away. Only recent changes are the ones Ive listed in the post, the most recent being the reduction in photoperiod.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope I don't. Plants have been doing fine and growing quite well, only thing now is that algae is growing too well  and there's algae all over the plants.



The same thing is currently happening to me! There’s algae in every inch of my tank, it’s filmataneous hair algae. What I’m going to do is reduce my lighting to 6 hours a day. Then I’m going to order a new fertilizer (since I was using flourish ferts before) and then I’m going to do manual cleaning with a tooth brush


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## Griznatch (Nov 9, 2020)

Cutting down the time for light was a good idea, but how intense is it? Maybe raising it up off the top, or dimming it would help. Algae usually explodes if there's extra nutrients or light. If the plants aren't using it up, then the algae will take advantage.

I have a pothos hanging out of the back of my tank as well as duckweed and jungle val.. those three pretty much starve out any algae. Downside is I have jungle val and duckweed lol...

Shrimp are pretty toleran,t but don't like sudden changes in water parameters. There could be something in your water that is killing the shrimp, besides fluctuating PH.. like copper, heavy metals? The water here in Idaho is super hard and I'm on a well. The TDS out of my well is around 500+. I had a real hard time with shrimp until I dropped it down to under 400. Running around high 200s now and have shrimp multiplying like crazy.


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

Griznatch said:


> Cutting down the time for light was a good idea, but how intense is it? Maybe raising it up off the top, or dimming it would help. Algae usually explodes if there's extra nutrients or light. If the plants aren't using it up, then the algae will take advantage.
> 
> I have a pothos hanging out of the back of my tank as well as duckweed and jungle val.. those three pretty much starve out any algae. Downside is I have jungle val and duckweed lol...
> 
> Shrimp are pretty toleran,t but don't like sudden changes in water parameters. There could be something in your water that is killing the shrimp, besides fluctuating PH.. like copper, heavy metals? The water here in Idaho is super hard and I'm on a well. The TDS out of my well is around 500+. I had a real hard time with shrimp until I dropped it down to under 400. Running around high 200s now and have shrimp multiplying like crazy.



Can you help me with my algae issues too?

I’ve recently gotten an outbreak of hair algae. Tank specifications:

10 gallon tank
Diy citric acid co2
High lighting (Chihiros rgb light and a white led light)
Substrate is eco complete 
Nitrate is 5
Ammonia and nitrite is 0
I’m using flourish fertilizer 
Light is on for 8 hours a day
50% water changes a week

Any more specifications you need please ask me

Here’s a picture of the algae:











Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

Griznatch said:


> Cutting down the time for light was a good idea, but how intense is it? Maybe raising it up off the top, or dimming it would help. Algae usually explodes if there's extra nutrients or light. If the plants aren't using it up, then the algae will take advantage.
> 
> I have a pothos hanging out of the back of my tank as well as duckweed and jungle val.. those three pretty much starve out any algae. Downside is I have jungle val and duckweed lol...
> 
> Shrimp are pretty toleran,t but don't like sudden changes in water parameters. There could be something in your water that is killing the shrimp, besides fluctuating PH.. like copper, heavy metals? The water here in Idaho is super hard and I'm on a well. The TDS out of my well is around 500+. I had a real hard time with shrimp until I dropped it down to under 400. Running around high 200s now and have shrimp multiplying like crazy.


Thanks @Griznatch, 

Ill attach a pic of my light settings, its currently using 31W, this used to be higher at around 51W but I turned it down. ALso I use RO/DI water so I doubt its something there,but who knows.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
Your plants are melting and dropping leaves because the water parameters changed, specifically from lowering pH from 8.4 to down to whatever the RO water is. Lowering KH is good for both, the fish and plants, but the changes are the reason your plants are going South and of course algae takes advantage. It is only temporary. 

To make it even worse for the plants you cut photoperiod in half. Return the light back as it was before so plants can continue growing again. The 12 hours with 3 hour ramp up, so really 12:00 to 18:00 sounds good.

Reducing feeding period is not going to change anything other than weakening the Galaxy fish. They need at least twice a day good feedings. BTW, your other pictures of the Galaxy boys look good. 

You need a cleaning crew, Ramshorn snail would help. And also removing the dead leaves so new ones can grow back. 

You are considering a black out? That’s a bad idea. It will hurt the plants and not fix anything.

You mentioned you switched to RO/DI. Well, nothing will grow in it unless it is re-mineralized, reconstituted. When you do a water change you need to add per changed water quantity

10 ppm Ca, CaSO4
4 ppm Mg, MgSO4 aka Epsom salt
20 ppm K, K2SO4
1 dKH, NaHCO3, aka baking soda

10 ppm NO3, KNO3
1 ppm PO4, KH2PO4

And then you need to supply trace elements, not much, but it needs to be there for the plants to grow. What trace elements can you get from your local fish store?


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

Thanks for the response Edward!

Only thing is is that the tank's ph has not dropped from 8.4 even after switching to RO/DI water (sorry I realise I forgot to mention this in my orig post). I remineralise my ro/di water with Salty Shrimp GH+. I used to add KH as well however I found that as soon as I added kh to my ro water, its ph would jump upto 8+ (where as before adding kh and just using gh+ the ph would be ~7) I made a post about this a while back and I was told to ditch the kh since I was using active substrate. Anyways in the 2 months since I stopped adding kh I find that the tank still always has 2/3 kh as my parameters above shows. Additionally, since only using gh+ I do notice that my tank's ph does indeed drop overnight (to about 7.6) after a water change but after a few days it will go back upto ~8.4. Still unsure whats causing this, as theres no rock or wood in the tank. Just amazonia soil, ada power sand and plants...

As for cleaning crew, there are still a few pond snails in the tank and I have an algae eater shrimp in there but they aren't helping as much :/ 

Should I still return the photoperiod back to as it was? I actually did used to add ferts quite a while back but stopped when I first noticed shrimp dying.


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## Roboto (Mar 24, 2020)

It seems odd that your ph goes right back up to low 8 after a water change. Do you feel good about all your filter media?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi WaldoDude
Take your pH kit and hide it, it is not needed. 

Learn to use KH and TDS instead. You have RO with Salty Shrimp GH+ and ADA Aquasoil. If the Salty Shrimp GH+ website is correct then with 6 dGH comes 0.36 dKH, which is fine. Does anybody know what the Ca : Mg ratio in Salty Shrimp GH+ is? Plants need Mg to grow. So, if your aquarium water KH and TDS are higher than your re-mineralized RO then keep changing water until they go down. There is no other way, the substrate is leaking KH that was previously added. Once it is depleted it will no longer keep increasing the KH. But, until then, every time there is KH change, plants will deteriorate and new leaves will have to grow again. 

If we want the plants to grow then they need to have

NO3, from KNO3
PO4, from KH2PO4
K, from K2SO4
Mg, from MgSO4 or, ? Salty Shrimp GH+ if it comes with Mg
Ca, from Salty Shrimp GH+
Trace Elements, from local fish store
Normal light as energy in order to grow

Little hint. If 1 drop per 5 ml with KH test kit indicates 1 degree, then 1 drop in 10 ml indicates 0.5 degree. This way the kit resolution can be doubled for fine tuning. And, PO4 test kit could help with plants. 



Roboto said:


> It seems odd that your ph goes right back up to low 8 after a water change. Do you feel good about all your filter media?


 WaldoDude had alkaline high KH seiryu stones in there and also was adding KH so the substrate absorbed some of it. Let’s hope there is nothing KH leaking in the filter too.


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

Edward said:


> Hi WaldoDude
> Take your pH kit and hide it, it is not needed.
> 
> Learn to use KH and TDS instead. You have RO with Salty Shrimp GH+ and ADA Aquasoil. If the Salty Shrimp GH+ website is correct then with 6 dGH comes 0.36 dKH, which is fine. Does anybody know what the Ca : Mg ratio in Salty Shrimp GH+ is? Plants need Mg to grow. So, if your aquarium water KH and TDS are higher than your re-mineralized RO then keep changing water until they go down. There is no other way, the substrate is leaking KH that was previously added. Once it is depleted it will no longer keep increasing the KH. But, until then, every time there is KH change, plants will deteriorate and new leaves will have to grow again.
> ...



Can you help me with my algae issues too sir 


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

finnystar2992 said:


> Can you help me with my algae issues too sir


 Algae won’t go away HELP!


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

Cool thanks @Edward!

From what Ive found the Ca-mg ratio is ~3/4:1. I will keep an eye on the kh with the next few water changes.
As for trace elements, I have Seachem Nitrogen (I used to add a small lamount because i though the low N03 in my tank was hurting the plants), Seachem Iron and Seachem Flourish. Will flourish be enough will I need Seachem Flourish Trace as well?

I will return the lighting to normal as well.

Oh and also I have a feeling the my amazonia substrate is or is close to being depleted as the tank is now more than 2 years old. Should I grab some root tabs?

Cheers!


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

WaldoDude said:


> From what Ive found the Ca-mg ratio is ~3/4:1.


 Degrees of Ca-GH : degrees Mg-GH or ppm Ca : ppm Mg?

Nitrogen is a macro element, not micro nor trace element. 

Seachem Flourish is just iron Fe with almost nothing else. Seachem Iron is only iron Fe, don’t need more. What you need is Seachem Flourish with Seachem Trace to get complete trace element mix. Or scrap this craziness and get some other trace element product from somewhere else. 

I wouldn’t use root tabs, once you discover they leak or cause havoc it is too late, can’t get rid of them. And the soil may no longer adsorb KH and minerals because it is saturated but it is still good.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

ppm CA : degree GH (I think, here is where I got it from: https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/topic/4228-gh-camg-ratio/page/3/)
Ok I will get Seachem Trace
Thanks


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## Aquascaper1 (Jan 17, 2020)

If someone mentions they have an algae problem and they are running their lighting at 12 hours / day, there is no question it should be reduced to less than 10 hours / day. 
Other things that can cause this is overfeeding fish and / or in combination with over fertilizing live plants.

If someone mentions they have shrimp and are making several different changes at the same time and their shrimp are dying, I would suggest to make smaller incremental changes much slower over time. Shrimp (from experience) are very fragile when it comes to accepting changes. Even if parameters are not ideal, getting a parameter or two closer to ideal should be arrived at slowly so the shrimp have a better chance at acclimating.

Seek out "The Shimp Farm" online and you should be able to find some valuable information about shrimp there. 

If you focus on keeping the plants and shrimp healthy in many cases, the shrimp may pay you back by taking care of the algae.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

Thanks Aquascaper1!

I only started altering tank parameters after shrimp started dying, namely, the Ph and TDS of tank. TDS was low (~97) and once I switched to RO/DI I was able to maintain it at ~140. Ph is high at ~8.4 and although I switched to RO/DI so that I can reduce ph, it hasnt really decreased at all. So overall tank parameters apart from TDS hasn't really changed at all while shrimp were dying :/ In the last 4-5 weeks however no shrimp have died from what I can tell. 

Also with lighting, I've had the 12 hour schedule for over year without any issues (it was 12 hours with 3 hour ramp up though, so 6 hours of peak lighting and 6 hours of ramp up/down.) It was only very recently and coincidently when I lowered my lighting schedule that algae bloomed


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

@Edward I picked up a Phosphate test kit, at the 3 minute mark the test tube indicated a phosphate level of between 5 to 10, but the longer I left the tube, the darker the solution got and it eventually became greyish and super cloudy which isnt anywhere on the indicator chart :/ I hope this isn't an indicator of super high phosphates. 

Seachem Trace is on the way.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
Is the PO4 test kit API? It is a good product, unlike their GH and NO3 tests. Anyway, the PO4 kit says wait 3 minutes. So anything longer doesn’t matter. You say you have between 5 and 10 ppm PO4. That is very high, keep changing water until it drops. But no lower than what you feel comfortable reading on the colour chart. With this particular test kit, 0.5 and 1.0 ppm are good colours to use as the base. Anything lower or higher can be easily distinguished. 

Tip, if you use 2.5 ml and 3 drops of both reagents you get the same readings and double the number of tests. 

And I would not use the Seachem Iron because the Seachem Flourish Comprehensive has enough Iron as is. Also, the Mg level in the Salty Shrimp is still unclear.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

Hey,
Yes it is API. Ok I will keep up the water changes. I also cleaned out the filter sump because I noticed there was alot of dead plant debris in there and thought this could be why the PO4 was really high and water changes wouldn't have helped.

I have recieved Seachem flourish trace and started dosing. I've also set the lighting for 6 hours a day.

So my question now is apart from dosing Seachem Flourish and Trace, what else do I need to do for this tank to recover? Do I just keep up with the dosing and water changes over the next few weeks and wait for the algae to disappear ? Or should I trim/remove badly infested plants as well or is it possible for these to be saved and the algae will just die off?

Cheers


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Even if your tank was in great health, you should be removing dead / dying plant matter. When you have an algae problem, it's even more important. Dead or dying leaves are actively leeching ammonia and phosphates into your water column, even while they're still attached to the plant.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

Ok noted, I was mainly referring to plants/leaves that looked healthy but were covered in algae but yes I've started clearing dead/dying plant matter more actively now. 

Also @Edward, I think you were spot on regarding the substrate leaking KH. Did another water change yesterday, and today I tested the KH and got 1-2 degrees KH, definitely a decrease from the previous 2-3 degrees, I decided to test the PH as well and what do you know its sitting around ~7.4. That's the first time I've ever gotten it that low, haha. Furthermore, in the last week I spotted, a shrimplet for the first time in a long time in that tank and now there are plenty of them  I think the decrease in ph from ~8.4 has definitely made them more comfortable. 

Now lets hope the plants recover too and be rid of this algae once and for all.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

Ok since my last post, I've definitely noticed a decrease in algae growth although not gone in its entirety. Algae still pops up on the glass but not as quickly and there are still some growing on plants. I've removed all dead/dying plants and have planted new ones. They seem to be growing but slowly. I'm worried that they too will soon have algae growing on them. The PO4 level is now definitely lower than 5 but greater than 1 (i'd put it at somewhere between 2 and 5 based on the colour). Another thing I've now noticed is that my NO3 reading is very close to 0 (around 1-2ppm according to the seachem nitrate test). Should I start dosing Flourish Nitrogen as well?
KH is now also 1 or less.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

So algae is still an issue. It seems to be growing on any and every surface. My breeder box attached to the tank is growing algae on all surfaces. Even a small tupperware container I use to catch the CPD eggs is growing algae on the sides. The new plants I planted seemed to be doing well initially but now I can see that hair algae is growing on some of their leaves too and there has not been any more visible growth in the last 2 weeks. My amazon sword for example is exhibiting yellowing leaves with holes in addition to the algae growing on it. 
I've realised that most of the plants in the tank are stem plants except for 1 Java fern windelov and 1 bunch of taiwan moss (for the egg catcher). The moss is the only plant growing well and free of algae. The java fern is ok but does have a little bit of algae starting to appear on it.
Anyways I am starting to think my root feeders are struggling because there isnt enough food in the substrate anymore (amazonia soil is more than 2 years old now + kh used to be high so may have depleted it faster). 

Should I start placing root tabs? 
My other plan was to revamp the tank slightly by taking out all plants and some soil and capping it with fluval stratum. THen place some root tabs and plant a whole bunch of new plants. 

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Any insights from you @Edward ?  

Current status of the tank:
Lighting is at 6.5 hours.
Ph has now been at a consistent 7.0-7.2.
Gh is ~7
Kh ~1 or less. The fact that my ph is now down to neutral consistently suggests to me that I have finally depleted kh from the tank.
Ive been dosing Seachem flourish and seachem flourish trace twice a week. With a ~40% water change once a week. I decided not to dose extra nitrate with Seachem Nitrogen because I realised there is a little bit of nitrogen in seachem flourish and trace. Prior to a water change I tested nitrates and got ~5 ppm. So I dont think a lack of nitrates is a problem.


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