# CO2 and sump



## scolba (Jul 11, 2016)

Hey Tom,

I have a 65 gal with a 20 gal sump right now, and CO2 injection as well. I went with a reactor in between the return pump and the outlet, which I think would be your best bet. I don't think a diffuser is going to be as efficient, regardless of where you put it, be it return chamber, or in the display tank itself. Take a look at the griggs style reactor (I am using a cerges style, but probably should have gone griggs) and it worked well for me until my solenoid quit working. I intended on covering my sump with a glass top to seal it well to help reduce the gas exchange, but I didn't have any troubles getting the level of CO2 where it needed to be. I still plan to cover, just haven't gotten around to it yet.


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

A reactor on the return line would work well. You could also build a recirculation loop into the sump as well, if you wanted. By that I mean a separate pump flowing to the reactor, then back to the sump. How is your filtration set up? Is it an all immersed media setup?


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

Bunsen Honeydew said:


> How is your filtration set up? Is it an all immersed media setup?



Well, I am not sure. The sump needed some TLC and cleaning, so it is not actually running yet.


The way I received it was:


Inlet (bio balls on egg crate, sandwiched between filter padding) then two narrow chambers, once of which was filled with what looks like white plastic ribbon, then a large chamber that the previous owner used for activated carbon (a LOT of it), then two more narrow chambers that were empty, then the outlet chamber that had the pump in a bed of bio balls.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

geektom said:


> Well, I am not sure. The sump needed some TLC and cleaning, so it is not actually running yet.
> 
> 
> The way I received it was:
> ...


sounds like a wet dry sump. got any pics of it?

if it is in fact a wet dry expect some co2 loss, you can prevent it by duct taping the inlet side.

as for the reactor, yeah you can run it on separate loop with the output of the reactor facing the input of your return pump


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

I don't have any pictures handy, but I will add one.

I took all the media out to clean it- does it need to be put back in to understand what I am dealing with?


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

geektom said:


> I don't have any pictures handy, but I will add one.
> 
> I took all the media out to clean it- does it need to be put back in to understand what I am dealing with?


nope. i'm just curious about the baffle placement lol


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> nope. i'm just curious about the baffle placement lol






I appreciate the help and will try to post something tonight when I get home from work.

Ok, here are the pictures. Tank is 46" x 20" x 15" high. I cleaned it the best I could- there are a lot of hard water deposits I still need to get, but I got off the grime and caked on carbon residue. I placed the media back into the places it was when I received it, minus the filter padding, which I had to throw away. I also took a picture of the carbon doser, UV sterilizer and pump I got with it. I am thinking I may be able to transform the carbon doser into my CO2 reactor? Any and all insight is appreciated!


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

damn you got a nice sump

so here's 2 options i think you can roll with

option 1: wet dry

for the drip plate you can either make your own from a plastic container (gonna have to drill a bunch of holes in it) or plastic pegboard (think homedepot has 16" x 16")

option 2: submersed media

i just use some zip-ties and pvc pipe to hold up my sock in my sump
note: you might have to remove the 3rd baffle from the left to get it to work correctly 

for both options i would grab some corrugated plastic sheets to use as a lid/lids (to reduce degassing) from homedepot: Corrugated Plastic Sheets - Glass & Plastic Sheets - The Home Depot

edit: you might not need the 3rd and 5th baffles now that i think about it, pretty sure the 3rd chamber was originally intended to be used for a skimmer or ato


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> sounds like a wet dry sump. got any pics of it?
> 
> if it is in fact a wet dry expect some co2 loss, you can prevent it by duct taping the inlet side.
> 
> as for the reactor, yeah you can run it on separate loop with the output of the reactor facing the input of your return pump


The Booths found their 80 gallon Optimum Planted tank with Wet/Dry sump didn't go through CO2 much faster than it did with the reactor on it's own pump and a canister filter. The main concern is if you do use a wet/dry sump to not let the CO2 circuit recirculate back into the sump before going to the tank They tried it with and without covers and the only difference was that with a sump cover it wasted less water to evaporation, but an insignificant savings on CO2 use. Granted they were shooting for 15 PPM CO2.


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> damn you got a nice sump
> 
> so here's 2 options i think you can roll with
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the detailed response- it really helps.

So what I am hearing you say, is that while the sump is currently set up as 3 chambers, it really only needs to be two. The baffles are put in very well and securely- would I be making a big mistake to leave #3 and #5 in, just so I don't take the chance of damaging something during the removal process?

Excuse my ignorance, but where is the water line in Option 2? Is the sock under it, or does the water flow through it and fall into the first chamber?

What is the right about of bio media? Does it look like I have enough bio balls? There is quite the variety included. What is the purpose of the plastic "ribbon? More mechanical/bio filtration?


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

geektom said:


> Thanks so much for the detailed response- it really helps.
> 
> So what I am hearing you say, is that while the sump is currently set up as 3 chambers, it really only needs to be two. The baffles are put in very well and securely- would I be making a big mistake to leave #3 and #5 in, just so I don't take the chance of damaging something during the removal process?
> 
> ...


FW sumps are a lot simpler than Salt ones. you can leave #3 and #5 if you want but i would test how much water would drain from the main tank in case of maintenance / power outage situation, don't need it flooding lol. how far are baffles 2, 3, and 5 from the rim of the sump anyway? and how tall is your main tank?

water flows the through the sock and goes into the first chamber.


the plastic ribbons could be pvc shavings, which are usually used as bio-media.


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> FW sumps are a lot simpler than Salt ones. you can leave #3 and #5 if you want but i would test how much water would drain from the main tank in case of maintenance / power outage situation, don't need it flooding lol. how far are baffles 2, 3, and 5 from the rim of the sump anyway? and how tall is your main tank?
> 
> water flows the through the sock and goes into the first chamber.
> 
> ...


I think I understand what you are saying: if I leave those baffles in, the water level has to be at least as high as the top of them in order to flow, which doesn't leve me a lot of room for error if the pump stops working. Am I getting that correctly?

When you say, "how far are baffles 2, 3, and 5 from the rim of the sump anyway?", what do you mean? How tall are they?

And "how tall is your tank?"- do you mean the tank itself? Or how far it is from the sump?

The tank has a center overflow and return, so the inlet to the sump is a set of angled PVC- I will see if I can clean it up enough to put the sump back underneath so I can show you. You can see it is still very much in "project" Phase at this point.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

geektom said:


> I think I understand what you are saying: if I leave those baffles in, the water level has to be at least as high as the top of them in order to flow, which doesn't leve me a lot of room for error if the pump stops working. Am I getting that correctly?


yep. the water level might be a lil lower in chamber 3 depending on how much your pumping though so i might be over thinking it lol



> When you say, "how far are baffles 2, 3, and 5 from the rim of the sump anyway?", what do you mean? How tall are they?


yep



> And "how tall is your tank?"- do you mean the tank itself? Or how far it is from the sump?


the tank itself. judging from the pic, is it 60" x 30" 18" Tall ?



> The tank has a center overflow and return, so the inlet to the sump is a set of angled PVC- I will see if I can clean it up enough to put the sump back underneath so I can show you. You can see it is still very much in "project" Phase at this point.


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes, those are the exact dimensions of the tank- it is that 30" depth that really drew me to the tank, even though it will be a while before I can get it up and running (I am also without lights or a CO2 system, presently)

The baffles that are attached to the bottom of the sump are all 10" high

Id does not appear that there was any mechanical filtration being used in the overflow chamber of the tank- it was completely empty.

I think this is the best view of inside the overflow- I assume the other pipe is an emergency overflow in base the main one gets clogged?


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## TormentedFishTank (May 21, 2017)

geektom said:


> Thanks so much for the detailed response- it really helps.
> 
> So what I am hearing you say, is that while the sump is currently set up as 3 chambers, it really only needs to be two. The baffles are put in very well and securely- would I be making a big mistake to leave #3 and #5 in, just so I don't take the chance of damaging something during the removal process?
> 
> ...


Keep it the way it is IMO. 

Those last baffles before the return pump are mostly to reduce/prevent microbubbles from entering back into the tank. Unless you are trying to keep Co2 bubbles from escaping in that area, they are good to have IMO. Microbubbles make the water look cloudy when it isn't.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

geektom said:


> Yes, those are the exact dimensions of the tank- it is that 30" depth that really drew me to the tank, even though it will be a while before I can get it up and running (I am also without lights or a CO2 system, presently)
> 
> The baffles that are attached to the bottom of the sump are all 10" high


yeah you can definitely keep those baffles then



> Id does not appear that there was any mechanical filtration being used in the overflow chamber of the tank- it was completely empty.
> 
> I think this is the best view of inside the overflow- I assume the other pipe is an emergency overflow in base the main one gets clogged?


looks it was previously a herbie set up









Herbie Overflow Plumbing Guide for Quiet Reef Aquariums - gmacreef

for the emergency pipe (the left one) you can always make an upside down U out of 2 90 degree pvc pipes and stick it on top, makes it quieter

you also have the option of turning it into a bean animal if you decide to change the return line into another drain:
http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks for that. I just finished reading the whole thing and it was super helpful.

Right now it is the one on the far right- the main drain is essentially just a hole in the bottom of the tank that the pvc pipe attaches to underneath. Looks like I have some work to do.

Does that mean optimally I shouldn't use this as a wet/dry, since the inlet pipe is supposed to be under the water level? It isn't that way now- the angled PVC essentially just dumps over the egg-crate and bio balls.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

geektom said:


> Does that mean optimally I shouldn't use this as a wet/dry, since the inlet pipe is supposed to be under the water level? It isn't that way now- the angled PVC essentially just dumps over the egg-crate and bio balls.


most wet/dry filters just dump the water on to the mechanical filter on top of the drip plate that's on top of the bio balls/bio media.


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> most wet/dry filters just dump the water on to the mechanical filter on top of the drip plate that's on top of the bio balls/bio media.


Understood- just seems to be different than how the sump is set up in the article about the drains. The previous owner must have been running it as a type of hybrid.


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

Here you can see how it would be set up "as is".

Middle connection is the main drain, angled over the drip plate, emergency drain over the center of the sump, pump up to the outlet. I suppose I could reverse the way it is in so they aren't crossing each other.

Anything else I should change?


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

I would try to get the pipe to aim at the center of the plate to try get as even of a distribution across the media as possible. 

If the egg crate doesn't distribute the water evenly you can replace it with a diy drip plate later on


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