# Turface Mixup?



## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

I had just picked up a few bags of Turface from a local distributor and think I may have gotten the wrong stuff. I asked for "Turface Pro League Grey" but the bag says "Truface Pro Mound Clay Grey." At the bottom is a picture of what I've got rinsing right now. 
Here are the two products: 
http://www.turface.com/turface-products/infield-conditioners/turface-pro-league
http://www.turface.com/turface-products/mound-and-box-packing-clays/turface-mound-clay

I know the mound clay is clay, but could this still be used as a substrate?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

probably be really cloudy in the water


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Looking at the MSDS for both, and checking up on "gumbo clay" referenced in the MSDS, I'd say there's no way you'll want to try to use that.

The particles of the mound clay seem to be extremely fine, and the mound clay is far more dense than the Pro League. As for "gumbo clay", farmers report that, when wet, it is very compacted and difficult to get anything to grow in it. And the fact that it swells when wet is bad news.


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## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

kevmo911 said:


> Looking at the MSDS for both, and checking up on "gumbo clay" referenced in the MSDS, I'd say there's no way you'll want to try to use that.
> 
> The particles of the mound clay seem to be extremely fine, and the mound clay is far more dense than the Pro League. As for "gumbo clay", farmers report that, when wet, it is very compacted and difficult to get anything to grow in it. And the fact that it swells when wet is bad news.


Alright, I had noticed that it was very compact as well when I tried to pick some up out of the bucket (It felt like when you make a "clay ball" at the lake... you know, those ones that you can throw at people? haha) and had some doubts. 
I was in a rush trying to get this stuff before they closed and didn't pay enough attention to it until I got home. I had asked for the Pro Leauge, but probably since I said I wanted Grey, I'm assuming the person in the warehouse got it mixed up.

Thanks for the input.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

umm.. so is the the pro league?!

there is a distruber about 15 min from me...

but not sure of WHICH TURFACE product it actually is.. $13 for 50lbs


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Any clay will slowly turn into slip if its in water, especially if the water isn't completely stagnant. 
It may eventually also settle and be clear, but it depends on how much current you have. 


This is slip








So is the liquid in your bucket!

If you had enough water in the bucket you could completely dissolve all of the clay until there weren't any chunks or solid pieces.. 

Probably not ideal for an aquarium, I'd guess.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

LOL!! yikes thanks


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Do you notice in the link you provided for Pro League there is not grey..... Grey hasn't been a turface color ever. SMS use to come in grey, but no longer. Ever seen a grey baseball field?

I think that heritage red might look good.


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## plants (Mar 20, 2012)

OverStocked said:


> Do you notice in the link you provided for Pro League there is not grey..... Grey hasn't been a turface color ever. SMS use to come in grey, but no longer. Ever seen a grey baseball field?
> 
> I think that heritage red might look good.



I think gray is a discontinued color of turface. I remember trying to find some and then giving up when I set up my last tank.


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## mjbn (Dec 14, 2011)

Yeah, you def. were given the wrong thing.. Grey WAS a color but was discontinued some time ago.

Ask for Turface Pro League in either red, tan(what my distributor gave me), or heritage red. There is no more grey, again.


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## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> Do you notice in the link you provided for Pro League there is not grey..... Grey hasn't been a turface color ever. SMS use to come in grey, but no longer. Ever seen a grey baseball field?
> 
> I think that heritage red might look good.


Yea, I'm well aware that there isn't grey anymore now. I went to Turface's website and got the link after I went to the distributor to get some substrate and noticed I got the wrong stuff. And yes, grey used to be a color, I had it in a tank previously (that's why I didn't think to check the product list on Turface's website), so the comment about the grey baseball field was a little unnecessary. 

And to whoever mentioned they had a distributor near them, I ended up getting the MVP natural.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I am sorry, I was wrong about there being turface grey In the past

I wasn't being mean with my comment. I was pointing out the fact that it was basically never used and that is why none of the suppliers make it anymore. 


Sent from my iPhone 4S


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

i asked.. cuz i was reading its a domestic version/possible replacement for japanese imported akadama..


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Will not buffer long term like akadema


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

my old landlords own a bonsai nursery.. they have akadama soil.. going to see what they have


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## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> I am sorry, I was wrong about there being turface grey In the past
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4S


It's quite alright, don't worry about it. 
On another note, does anyone know off-hand what the stuff brick layers use when doing a brick walkway? I saw some workers laying some brick next to one of the buildings on the research campus here and it looks very similar to the old SMS. Is this just crushed slate or something?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

In my area, they use paver sand. Nothing like sms.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

what is SMS?! sorry..


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

soil master select, a discontinued product that was identical to Turface, but was standard in a nice grey color.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

OverStocked said:


> soil master select, a discontinued product that was identical to Turface, but was standard in a nice grey color.


yuck.. ! grey..


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## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

I don't know, I have always thought grey/black was a nice color for the substrate, depending on what type of tank you would want


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Warlock said:


> yuck.. ! grey..


do a search here.... people have went on a practically endless quest to find these substrates in grey....


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## Lurch98 (Oct 7, 2011)

ngrubich said:


> It's quite alright, don't worry about it.
> On another note, does anyone know off-hand what the stuff brick layers use when doing a brick walkway? I saw some workers laying some brick next to one of the buildings on the research campus here and it looks very similar to the old SMS. Is this just crushed slate or something?


Believe they were probably using decomposed granite. It's a fairly common material under pavers and bricks, and can be grey depending on your local stone coloration.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

OverStocked said:


> do a search here.... people have went on a practically endless quest to find these substrates in grey....


well, thats what i thought UNTIL i saw this link.. 

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/substrates/82245-soilmaster-turface-alternatives-6.html


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Local rock yards may be a source for many types of sand or gravel. 
The material used under bricks and pavers is any local product that has a mix of particle sizes from about 1/4" or even 3/8" on down to dust. The big point is that it compacts, almost a hard as cement. I would not want to try any of the local variations (there are 3 types of this in my area) as aquarium substrate. 
However, the same product may be available clean, or sifted, so you get only one particle size. Usually (well, locally) the finest of these are still about 3/8" (no fines), so it really is not a soil in the sense that we are talking about. 

Other materials include things like pool filter sand, and other sands. Some of these are used as fillers between the bricks and pavers. Look at the local products, take a sample home and test. (test is at the bottom of this post). Avoid a bagged product with polymers. This turns into a gel, and is pretty interesting between the pavers, but a few tablespoons dropped onto the bed of my truck and stuck there for a few weeks!

Test for unknown substrate material such as sand, garden soil or 'topsoil' (sold in bags or bulk)
1) Straight sided glass container, roughly 1 pint to 1 quart w/ water tight lid. A canning jar works well. 
2) Put a strip of masking tape vertically on the jar. 
3) Fill the jar about half way to 2/3 with the material to be tested. Mark on the tape where the top of the material is. 
4) Add water and a tiny bit of dishwasher detergent. (not hand-dish-stuff, it makes too many bubbles). Pretty much fill the jar. 
5) Shake well 
6) Shake some more. 
7) Think you are done? Shake some more. 
8) Set the jar on a level surface and start watching the time. See how the material is settling out of the water, and mark on the tape where the level is at 30 seconds, 2 minutes and 2 hours. 
Here is how to read the test:
30 seconds: Sand and coarser material. 
2 minutes: Silt (a specific soil particle size, works for aquariums)
2 hours: the coarsest clay. This one will have reasonable CEC, yet not cloud the water too much, and settles out reasonably fast. 
Over 2 hours: If the water is still cloudy then there is finer clay that will cloud the water, and not settle out if the tank has any pump or other water movement equipment. It might, in time coalesce via microorganisms, and be a really good substrate, but there is always that risk of disturbing the substrate and having cloudy water for several hours or longer. 
Overnight: If the water is still cloudy DO NOT USE IT. This is colloidal clay. So fine that the Brownian motion keeps the particles suspended. 
Organic matter will float. If you can ID any of it (stick, leaf...) remove these before using the material. 

Look at each section, measure it, and compare it to the total. See the void left if it does not come back up the the top mark (this is suspended matter, clay or organic matter)
5% or so clay is good (as long as it is not colloidal clay). A bit more is not too bad, but over 10% is too much. 
25-50% silt is pretty good, 10-75% silt is OK. 
over 50% sand is pretty good, 25-75% sand is OK. 

If this test works out you might put some of this material in a small tank or a bucket and see what some water movement does to it. Add a small pump (sponge over it to protect the impeller) or an air stone. See how fast the cloudiness settles out.


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