# drilling a tiny hole to avoid siphon/disaster problems



## djscotty (Sep 14, 2010)

That sounds like it will work. Now I know the Salt water folks sell a overflow canister as well with the same purpose. Does anybody make a check valve that would work or would this even be possible with a canister?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've never heard of that at all, when the power shuts off the motor and the filter stops, there is no air gap so the tubes stay full of water and when power is restored everything goes back to work as it was. Now what you want to do is create an open air gap and I just guessing it's going to be on the exhaust side (other wise it would be spitting from the intake side) so that every time you loose power the air gap drain the exhaust tube, how would that stop your filter from leaking. If your filter is leaking you should fix it, this sounds crazy to me, unless I'm not getting it??


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

150EH said:


> I've never heard of that at all, when the power shuts off the motor and the filter stops, there is no air gap so the tubes stay full of water and when power is restored everything goes back to work as it was. Now what you want to do is create an open air gap and I just guessing it's going to be on the exhaust side (other wise it would be spitting from the intake side) so that every time you loose power the air gap drain the exhaust tube, how would that stop your filter from leaking. If your filter is leaking you should fix it, this sounds crazy to me, unless I'm not getting it??


I agree. 

Dave, when people drill a hole, it's on an open-loop system to avoid the siphon when the power goes out. An open loop system would be those running a sump. A siphon can be avoided by adding a check valve also. 

If you're using a canister filter, then you have a closed-loop system and no need for an anti-siphon hole.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

jcardona1 said:


> I agree.
> 
> Dave, when people drill a hole, it's on an open-loop system to avoid the siphon when the power goes out. An open loop system would be those running a sump. A siphon can be avoided by adding a check valve also.
> 
> If you're using a canister filter, then you have a closed-loop system and no need for an anti-siphon hole.


 
if the canister leaks, and they do. the hole in the top will stop the siphon before water level reaches the intake/output. even though it is still pumping water into the tank, a small amount will be leaking.

this has happened to me while on vacation. came home to half a 125 on the floor. if my intake or output had been lower, more water would have been on the floor. if i had a tiny hole just under the water surface, this would have saved me a major clean up.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

nonconductive said:


> if the canister leaks, and they do. the hole in the top will stop the siphon before water level reaches the intake/output. even though it is still pumping water into the tank, a small amount will be leaking.
> 
> this has happened to me while on vacation. came home to half a 125 on the floor. if my intake or output had been lower, more water would have been on the floor. if i had a tiny hole just under the water surface, this would have saved me a major clean up.


maybe. If the power was on, a small hole wouldn't be enough to break a siphon on my canister, just introduce lots of bubbles. It would need to be a pretty good sized hole.

Far better to keep a quality filter well-maintained (lubed gaskets, etc) to avoid a leak in the first place.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Perhaps, but that isn't that sort of a weak position?

Q: "What can I do to increase my safety in the event of a car crash"
A: "Far better to drive carefully and avoid having a crash in the first place"

I will keep my equipment well maintained to try and avoid this problem in the first place. But, drilling a tiny hole as a protective measure seems like a good idea to me. I wonder how small of a hole would suffice, though. If the hole were to small, it might just introduce bubbles like you said or it could possibly get some algae/scale over it and not work well. If it's too big, it reduces flow in general.

Is there any reason that this wouldn't be a good idea on both the intake and output tubes?


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

This work great for sumps/wet-dry's!
I drilled the hole just under the water line {you can also drill at the edge of the water line} when the power goes out it will drain to the point just enough to not over fill my wet-dry. I never had a flood!
Easy to test after drilling just shut your power to your pump an see!!


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

macclellan said:


> maybe. If the power was on, a small hole wouldn't be enough to break a siphon on my canister, just introduce lots of bubbles. It would need to be a pretty good sized hole.
> 
> Far better to keep a quality filter well-maintained (lubed gaskets, etc) to avoid a leak in the first place.


Exactly. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, but in order for a hole in the line to stop a flood, wouldn't you need a leaky canister AND a power outage? Because if the canister leaks while your gone and the filter is still running, it will continue to run, even with the hole drilled and even while it's leaking. It will do so until enough water has been leaked out of the tank so that the filter can't pump any more water out. 

At least that's my understanding of it....


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

That makes no sense to open a closed loop. As macclellan mentioned you will probably have bubbles and noise on a regular basis, far more annoying then the unlikely event of a flood if you make sure your equipment is all good. A check valve would keep the loop closed.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

jcardona1 said:


> Exactly. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, but in order for a hole in the line to stop a flood, wouldn't you need a leaky canister AND a power outage? Because if the canister leaks while your gone and the filter is still running, it will continue to run, even with the hole drilled and even while it's leaking. It will do so until enough water has been leaked out of the tank so that the filter can't pump any more water out.
> 
> At least that's my understanding of it....


yes thats correct, but that hole couldve been the difference beteen 10 gallons on the floor and 60 - 80 gallons on the floor. the canister was running dry when i returned home. im actually lucky the motor didnt burn up.

mac, my canisters are well maintained xp3's, but crap happens. (esp. while you're away) i guess a check valve would be a better option though.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

nonconductive said:


> yes thats correct, but that hole couldve been the difference beteen 10 gallons on the floor and 60 - 80 gallons on the floor. the canister was running dry when i returned home. im actually lucky the motor didnt burn up.
> 
> mac, my canisters are well maintained, but crap happens. (esp. while you're away)


With a power failure you may have saved more water on the floor. With a leaking canister filter it would probably continue to run and leak for some time unless the holes were pretty big. In an open system in a SW tank those holes can clog up pretty quick.

With a check valve in place (and my luck) I'm certain there would be a snail in just the right place to make it useless.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

fresh.salty said:


> With a check valve in place (and my luck) I'm certain there would be a snail in just the right place to make it useless.


that would be my luck as well!


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Dave-H said:


> Perhaps, but that isn't that sort of a weak position?
> 
> Q: "What can I do to increase my safety in the event of a car crash"
> A: "Far better to drive carefully and avoid having a crash in the first place"


The relevant disanalogy is that there are other people driving. My canister filter is a far more controlled condition than driving on the road with all the lunatics. If you have your filter beside the tank and it's in a bowling alley, you allow small children with hammers by your filter, etc...  

I'm all for extra redundancies, but not if they create more problems than they solve. Experiment and see how big the hole needs to be to break siphon. My concern is that it would be big enough that it would be sucking in lots of water from the top of the tank under normal conditions (99.999% of the time), not at the bottom of the tank where we want it to for good mechanical filtration, so that it would negatively impact filtration. Maybe the hole needs to be smaller than I'm imagining, which would make it a viable option, especially for those with shoddy canisters. 

Also, I'm thinking it must be on the inlet side, as the spraybar side is already open high in the tank.

Has anyone used a checkvalve on a canister? I wonder how bad that hurts flow.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

A canister filter is not going to cause siphon leak in the event of a power outage. its jus going to sit there untill it turns back on, it being a closed loop and all.

a sump can because it is open. on the return line only. so yes drilling a hole on the return just below the water line is very prudent, I have used siphon breaks on all my sump set ups for years. no need for one on the drain line because they are water level activated, AKA the pump needs to pump water high enough for it to fall down the drain, once the pump stops pumping in a power outage, the drain stops draining by default. and as long as you have your siphon break hole your good to go.
I personally dont trust check valves on such a system they are too prone to failure 50 gallobns of water all over my floor taught me a long time a go an anti siphon hose is far more reliable.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> That makes no sense to open a closed loop. As macclellan mentioned you will probably have bubbles and noise on a regular basis, far more annoying then the unlikely event of a flood if you make sure your equipment is all good. A check valve would keep the loop closed.


on a cannister if you put a hose on the down line (as in down to the filter) you would have to put it below the water line ior you would suck air and most likley the cavitation would end up burning out your filter in the long run.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

ReefkprZ said:


> A canister filter is not going to cause siphon leak in the event of a power outage. its jus going to sit there untill it turns back on, it being a closed loop and all.


 Their concern is when the canister is leaking, not a power outage. When the canister is leaking, it is NOT a closed loop.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

I've had small leaks before but nothing that was catastrophic. All my floods where self inflicted.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

macclellan said:


> Their concern is when the canister is leaking, not a power outage. When the canister is leaking, it is NOT a closed loop.


 if you read back through the thread thay seem to be talking about a leaky canister AND a power outage at the same time. talk about waiting for lightening to strike.
alright I see what your saying but try too see this, if your canister is running and leaking, a small anti siphon hole isnt going to break the siphon on a cannister since its running its just going to suck the air down and not break siphon unless the hole is quite large. try taking your canister filers down line and lifting it partially out of the water untill it breaks siphon. I think your going to find that unless it has one weak flow rate you'll need a hole about 50% the diameter of the down line. or even drill the hole and lift it out of the water leaving the rest of the pick up in the water....

just my take but if you have to wait for a power outage to notice your canister leaking maybe some one should spend more time on equipment maintenance.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

A leaking canister will leak regardless of whether or not the power is off.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

yup. and if you have a hole drilled at the top and leak down far enough to get to the anti siphon hole you'll 

A already have a mess
B keep leaking while beginning to suck air causing cavitation damage to a leaky filter
C probably keep leaking all the way down to the bottom of the pickup (or untill its far enough down the filter can pick up water from that far. unless your anti siphon hole is HUGE

in the case of a canister filter its pretty much superfluous to have those holes. they would be of negligible benefit. but I guess thats just my opinion.

if it was a catastrophic failure of the orin it may be a different story but I have never seen or heard f an entir o-ring failing at once. maybe if your return line fell off your cannister filter so the down line was sucking water..... but then you'd need that HUGE hole for it to break the siphon on a running filter.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

regular maintenance is what caused the leak, i didnt seat the disconnect correctly after cleaning it before vacation (the tubes were sort of tugging on it because i didnt push it back far enough) and it leaked from the power chord.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> That makes no sense to open a closed loop. As macclellan mentioned you will probably have bubbles and noise on a regular basis, far more annoying then the unlikely event of a flood if you make sure your equipment is all good. A check valve would keep the loop closed.


Why would you have bubbles/noise if the hole was below the surface of the water? If the hole was, say, 2 inches below the surface than the only way bubbles would routinely get in there would if the water level was falling.



macclellan said:


> The relevant disanalogy is that there are other people driving. My canister filter is a far more controlled condition than driving on the road with all the lunatics. If you have your filter beside the tank and it's in a bowling alley, you allow small children with hammers by your filter, etc...


I understand your point, but then again if you speak to an insurance adjuster I think you'll be told that many, many cars are damaged due to conditions that are beyond the drivers control and don't involve other drivers - equipment failure, potholes, hail, etc. I don't find it that crazy to consider what failsafe options there are, especially if they are easy to do and can be deemed worthwhile.

Also, when I was looking into buying a CO2 system I heard again and again (on this forum) that they are incredibly reliable, and never really break. And at the same time, I kept reading about people having difficulties and failures. So, I bought a good quality system from Orlando at GLA. When we were in Thailand for a few weeks guess what happened? My almost new system took a dump when the solenoid failed - thankfully in the closed position. Recently I heard about someone who's solenoid failed, unfortunately in the open position. So it happens. (Orlando did a great job taking care of me and replacing the faulty solenoid, btw)



macclellan said:


> A leaking canister will leak regardless of whether or not the power is off.


I'm not understanding what the power has to do with this. So long as the system stays closed with no leaks the only risk is stagnant water, not leaking on the floor. 

I am just looking at this is a potentially easy way to add a failsafe against 55 gallons of water on my nice hardwood floor. If the hole can be small enough so that it won't really affect the general flow/direction/function of the filter input AND still functional reliably by not clogging or failing to break the siphon than it's a easy safeguard.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Yes, equipment does fail. I've never had or heard of a canister filter leak that wasn't user error. I always hang around for a few minutes after messing with mine to be sure there are no leaks. 



Dave-H said:


> I am just looking at this is a potentially easy way to add a failsafe against 55 gallons of water on my nice hardwood floor. If the hole can be small enough so that it won't really affect the general flow/direction/function of the filter input AND still functional reliably by not clogging or failing to break the siphon than it's a easy safeguard.


Give it a shot and report back.


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

i drilled a small hole, about 1/2" below my nominal water level on my canister and closed loop co2 reactor intakes. the holes on the intakes prevent the entire tank draining (both of my intakes are pretty much at the substrate level) if there is a leak in either system. granted, the pumps will be running dry, but my powerhead (mj 900) driving my reactor will shut off if overheated. my eheim, oh well, i guess that'll burn out, but piddly compared to ruining my hardwood floor.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

milesm said:


> i drilled a small hole, about 1/2" below my nominal water level on my canister and closed loop co2 reactor intakes. the holes on the intakes prevent the entire tank draining (both of my intakes are pretty much at the substrate level) if there is a leak in either system. granted, the pumps will be running dry, but my powerhead (mj 900) driving my reactor will shut off if overheated. my eheim, oh well, i guess that'll burn out, but piddly compared to ruining my hardwood floor.


How big of a hole did you need to drill to break the siphon if the water level starts to drop?

EDIT: And how were you able to confirm that they would actually break the siphon? I wonder if it's even possible to test this?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yeah but he's talking about a canister, I think.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

jcardona1 said:


> How big of a hole did you need to drill to break the siphon if the water level starts to drop?
> 
> EDIT: And how were you able to confirm that they would actually break the siphon? I wonder if it's even possible to test this?


He said 1/2". 

The way to test this is... remove the top of your canister filter with everything on. Hopefully in a very large bucket and/or with lots of towels, lol.


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## Disco Dan (Mar 17, 2011)

A 2mm hole is usually enough to break a siphon on most common pipe sizes used with canister filters. 

Although pointless. 

As someone else pointed out they are used for people running a sump that have not got a drilled tank and need a siphon tube up and over the rim of the tank. 

If your worried about the canister filter leaking - buy a new one that you can trust. Or pop it into a empty bucket - will give you a bit of notice if it starts to leak. 

Sound like it is in a public place - perhaps a good quality internal filter would be more suitable?


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

i drilled a 1/16" hole in both intakes, about 1/2" below the surface. i was more worried about my eheim. after cleaning it, i reattached the tubes via the quick disconnects; one of them started to leak, and upon further inspection, i noticed a cracked o ring. went to the local hardware store and got one that's close, but not exact fit. it's been fine for the 5 months since, but i wanted to be safe so i drilled the intake. 

as to testing it out, kept the eheim on, then siphoned out about a quart of water from the tank until the intake siphon broke. i can live with that. 

btw, does anyone know where i can get an authentic eheim o ring for my quick disconnects?


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## Tacct (Jul 25, 2010)

Heh, people sure took this in a weird direction of power outages and sumps.

Also, the whole point to this is that the cost of the filter is less than the cost of damages due to a leak with the filter, so statements about burning out the filter are pointless. 

From the first post the concern is if a canister filter leaks, can a small hole just below the normal water level break the siphon once the water level drops from the leak. This is entirely possible but the question is how big of a hole is needed, though milesm has mentioned 1/16" hole size was enough for him size may vary for differing canister filters and tubing. As for testing the hole size, you could simply lift up your intake to bring the hole above your water line when testing sizes (with the pump already running and water flowing since a hole may not break a siphon but could still prevent one from starting).

You will not be sucking air unless your canister is leaking and your water level has dropped. The hole is under the normal water level and will only reach open air if there is leaking in which case the access to air with the right hole size will break the siphon completely. This measure will work regardless of the pump being on/off assuming the hole is the right size. 

SOOOOOoooooo...
Dave-H, as for your initial question yes you are understanding the concept, you just need to find the right size and test if its a viable solution.
The main concern is to get the hole to the right size to be able to break the siphon and not just simply introduce bubbles. Trial and error method should work if you start with the smallest drill bit and test each time. Though remember there is a chance that the size of hole needed for your filter/tubing may end up needing to be too big and while it would work, you would begin filtering more water from the top of the water column than your would prefer.

(Outflow should not need to be drilled since the outlet is already at the top of the tank I'm assuming)


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

kite949372 said:


> (Outflow should not need to be drilled since the outlet is already at the top of the tank I'm assuming)


 this is the only part I disagree with. the out flow may be near the top but, not always. my spray bar doesnt start with outlets untill 6 inches below th water surface (about 24 gallons above the topmost hole) if you can drill a hole closer to the surface you can save on the amount that backflows. Believe me an inch in a 135g tank is a lot of water (about 2.1 gallons) on the floor. Both holes should be drilled at about the same distance below the waters surface. if you have one 2 inches below and one 3 inches below the deeper one will maintain siphon untill the water level drops below the lower hole.


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## Tacct (Jul 25, 2010)

Well that's why I said assuming its at the top :\ But ya, if your outflow is lower than the hole on your intake you'd want to drill it as well.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I'll put this under 'to each their own' but I think you are far more likely to cause issues with this than protect against an 'extremely rare' occurrence. If you put the hole near the rim and your removed from the tank for a while (vacation, work, etc.) you stand a chance of first having a lot of bubbles enter the filter and then cutting off the siphon (as described). 

In my spare time I was aquascaping some very large setups in Manhattan. The tanks were drilled on the bottom attached to canister filters. So it was a closed system with the intake/outake under the tank. These setups were in Penthouses, very expensive real estate in Manhattan. This is going back 10 years. I never once heard of any issues. I think you are much more likely to crack your tank with your elbow or be eaten by a Zombie cause your driving to slow.


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## Disco Dan (Mar 17, 2011)

milesm said:


> i drilled a 1/16" hole in both intakes, about 1/2" below the surface. i was more worried about my eheim. after cleaning it, i reattached the tubes via the quick disconnects; one of them started to leak, and upon further inspection, i noticed a cracked o ring. went to the local hardware store and got one that's close, but not exact fit. it's been fine for the 5 months since, but i wanted to be safe so i drilled the intake.
> 
> as to testing it out, kept the eheim on, then siphoned out about a quart of water from the tank until the intake siphon broke. i can live with that.
> 
> btw, does anyone know where i can get an authentic eheim o ring for my quick disconnects?


After having my Eheim in storage for a couple of years I discovered all off the o' rings were gone and the quick disconnects leaked. Local hardware store was selling a little box of various sized o' rings cheaply so I went for it. They were all a bit small but I was able to stretch one over the pipe and fit it on. 

They have been fine for four months so far.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

Here's a question...You drill a hole 1/2" below the water level. You go away on vacation for a little over a week. The canister doesn't leak, but the water evaporates. Air enters the line, filter stops running. No filtration, no aeration. If you have an inline reactor, no co2 to your plants. 

In a perfect world you'd have somebody watch the tank while your gone, or have an auto-top off system. But what if you don't? I guess you could put the hole further down on the intake, but then that would just mean more water on the floor if your canister does happen to leak.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jcardona1 said:


> Here's a question...You drill a hole 1/2" below the water level. You go away on vacation for a little over a week. The canister doesn't leak, but the water evaporates. Air enters the line, filter stops running. No filtration, no aeration. If you have an inline reactor, no co2 to your plants.
> 
> In a perfect world you'd have somebody watch the tank while your gone, or have an auto-top off system. But what if you don't? I guess you could put the whole further down on the intake, but then that would just mean more water on the floor if your canister does happen to leak.


LOL Read my post from above:



houseofcards said:


> I'll put this under 'to each their own' but I think you are far more likely to cause issues with this than protect against an 'extremely rare' occurrence. * If you put the hole near the rim and your removed from the tank for a while (vacation, work, etc.) you stand a chance of first having a lot of bubbles enter the filter and then cutting off the siphon (as described). *
> 
> In my spare time I was aquascaping some very large setups in Manhattan. The tanks were drilled on the bottom attached to canister filters. So it was a closed system with the intake/outake under the tank. These setups were in Penthouses, very expensive real estate in Manhattan. This is going back 10 years. I never once heard of any issues. I think you are much more likely to crack your tank with your elbow or be eaten by a Zombie cause your driving to slow.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

houseofcards said:


> LOL Read my post from above:


LOL missed that! Seems like we're on the same subject


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

ReefkprZ said:


> this is the only part I disagree with. the out flow may be near the top but, not always. my spray bar doesnt start with outlets untill 6 inches below th water surface (about 24 gallons above the topmost hole) if you can drill a hole closer to the surface you can save on the amount that backflows. Believe me an inch in a 135g tank is a lot of water (about 2.1 gallons) on the floor. Both holes should be drilled at about the same distance below the waters surface. if you have one 2 inches below and one 3 inches below the deeper one will maintain siphon untill the water level drops below the lower hole.


Drilling a hole in the output may help, IF this exit point of output is below where you drilled the hole on the inlet hose. If where the water exits is above the hole you drilled, there's no need for an additional hole. Because if the canister leaks, as the water level drops, it will have past the point where the return is, and there will be no back-siphon. It will continue to drop until it reaches the drilled hole, breaking the siphon, resulting in no more water going down to the canister and being pumped back into the tank.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

jcardona1 said:


> It will continue to drop until it reaches the drilled hole, breaking the siphon, resulting in no more water going down to the canister and being pumped back into the tank.


 and once your canister starts sucking air from the down line how long until the canister stops working, and the return line (still partially filled with water) could siphon back and continues to leak..... if your going to do it why go half way right? maybe you'll get home before the filter burns out maybe not.

it may not even have enough water left in the return line to cause a back siphon but...


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Actually, that kind of works for me 'cause the return is only an inch from the surface anyways. So, if I'm out of town for a month (which I am at least twice a year) and my filter springs a leak (which I know happens from time to time) or my reactor leaks, etc. then I'll have an inch or two's worth of water from a 54 gallon corner tank on my hardwood floor and a burnt filter that ran dry for a while and died.

That filter costs like $125 bucks. My hardwood floor costs more than that, but it could probably handle a few gallons of water on it without too much damage. And there's a much better chance that my fish and plants will survive a filterless tank full of water than they would trying to survive in 3 inches of leftover water after a massive dump.

I think that nobody is really arguing that cannister failure is common enough so that everyone should take action against it. But I am surprised at the opposition to this concept, as it seems to have little risk.


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## JukeFish (Mar 15, 2011)

FWIW, I've been using canister filters, Eheim and Rena, continuously since 1990 and I have never had one leak so much as a drop. And I've never heard of anybody introducing any kind of anti-siphon scheme into their closed loop setup. I think you're over-thinking this.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

JukeFish said:


> FWIW, I've been using canister filters, Eheim and Rena, continuously since 1990 and I have never had one leak so much as a drop. And I've never heard of anybody introducing any kind of anti-siphon scheme into their closed loop setup. I think you're over-thinking this.


+1 

What I find really interesting is that there are thousands of members here. If this was an issue of any 'real' concern some or at least one of those members would report in that there canister failed. I would thing this is something they would share. Out of the thousands, one would report in if not daily, then at least weekly that this has happened to them. It simply doesn't happen enough to warrant much real debate. 

If your stating that your filter and reactor fail from "time to time" then I would re-examine your system


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

JukeFish said:


> I think you're over-thinking this.


 and not just this.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I didn't say 'my 'equipment fails from time to time. I said that equipment fails from time to time. Do a search, you'll find references to cannisters leaking as recent as.... yesterday!


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Dave-H said:


> I didn't say 'my 'equipment fails from time to time. I said that equipment fails from time to time. Do a search, you'll find references to cannisters leaking as recent as.... yesterday!


OK I just did a search on "Leaking Cannisters" and all I got was this thread and some others from 2008. LOL

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/search.php?searchid=4221165


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Try spelling canister correctly? 
Probably get more hits in a search. 
Not that it happens often, or even in my experience (except when it was my fault and it was caught within minutes).


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

macclellan said:


> Try spelling canister correctly?
> Probably get more hits in a search.
> Not that it happens often, or even in my experience (except when it was my fault and it was caught within minutes).


Shhh


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

macclellan said:


> Try spelling canister correctly?
> Probably get more hits in a search.
> Not that it happens often, or even in my experience (except when it was my fault and it was caught within minutes).


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## wannabee (Nov 6, 2011)

Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth to this subject. I had a power outage which did lead to a flood from my Rene XP3 canister pump. The power went out during the night. The silence was enough to wake me and as I laid in bed listening to the quiet, I started to hear water dripping. I discovered that my 4 year old XP3 was back siphoning probably because of old seals. I have always kept my canister in a 4 gallon tote so I only lost a couple of gallons on the floor. I have now drilled 1/8" holes in my intake and outtake u-tubes a half inch below water line so that I can only lose 3 gallons from my 75 gallon tank. It helps me sleep better at night and yes, I've also bought a seal kit.


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

If your can is leaking during normal run operation you have a pretty serious problem, period. What is being discussed here is when you have leak only when the power is off. Eheim Pro II top seals can & do start to weep WHEN THE POWER IS OFF when they get old.
Yes, changing them out on a regular basis is good insurance, but the problem is you don't know WHEN they will start leaking when the power goes down. I used to just unplug my 2126 to clean the prefilter without shutting the service valves & the can never leaked. When we had that recent power failure it would dribble when the power was off unless I closed the service valves. I didn't have a spare seal to change out.

Check valves only work on the return side of a system, not the suction side, as the diriction of flow is the same during a siphon condition as it is during normal running. A "siphon break" hole in the suction line just below the water surface will not cause any trouble during normal run operation & will eliminate a total siphoning of the tank in the event of a power failure. If you want you can use a check valve on the return side, but the same hole can be put on that, too.

Tommy


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

My sump system was made the proper way for the tank to be full, but since I use it for my turtles and its only about 80% full, I was going to fill the holes and then redrill them until I noticed it adds a nice amount of bubbles to the return lines so I kept them. Gives the turtles bubbles to play in and it breaks the surface water like an air stone to help with the fish in there, so win-win and keeps me from having to add a huge airstone and pump to a 125g.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

And sure enough, I had about 15 gallons of water on my nice hardwood floor last week, as a result of a slow leak. My filter hadn't sealed correctly, and although I'd kept an eye on it for a full 2 days after I had it open it developed a small leak and the dreaded 'big pool of water on my hardwood floor' scenario came true.

Not too bad, the water wasn't there for long and the floor is ok. But i'm again considering putting some leak-mitigation into the system. 

The idea of risking the filter (i.e. having it run dry and burn out) with this technique is no issue at all - I will happily sacrifice my $150 filter to save my $5000 floor. No question. Now it's just a matter of figuring out what the best approach. 

The anti-siphon hole sure seems like a simple solution to me, if it works.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Consider putting the filter in a plastic tub with a water alarm to let somebody hear it? 
Tub and alarm are about $15 total and makes me feel much better. 

This is the one I use:
http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-P...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I have had only one catastrophic failure with a can, and it was 'user error'.
I have had quite a few cans leak a small amount, and the answer for me was to keep them in a bucket. Replace seals, of course, but it is easy to keep them in a bucket, and this is a safe test for every time they are cleaned. ANY water in the bucket is a hint that they need some attention.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Diana said:


> I have had only one catastrophic failure with a can, and it was 'user error'.
> I have had quite a few cans leak a small amount, and the answer for me was to keep them in a bucket. Replace seals, of course, but it is easy to keep them in a bucket, and this is a safe test for every time they are cleaned. ANY water in the bucket is a hint that they need some attention.


I've never seen anything but a slow leak either, but I travel a lot and it can easily be 72 hours with nobody monitoring the tank. So, a slow leak can be a big mess. My 54g corner tank has, obviously, a corner shaped stand so there isn't much room in there. So, I'm trying to get as much prevention into place as possible!


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## big_trucks_1985 (Jan 16, 2012)

yes but it will spray water while running. and on the siphon side it will need to be below water level so you dont fill cannister with air.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Won't you break the siphon each time you do a water change if the hole is that close to the top of the tank?


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