# filterless 40 breeder?



## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

I have a 40 breeder set up that has been freed up as my fish plans have changed. I would like to set it up as a low tech tank at my other home, but my father dislikes aquariums as it's a constant power draw. Would it be possible to run it as a low tech tank without a filter, only a powerhead for water movement? It would be a sand substrate with just manzanita and some moss/ferns.


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## jwm5 (May 9, 2010)

possible but you would be limited to almost no fish. Why not run a filter on the powerhead, or a sponge filter/air pump? If you are plugging in a powerhead? whats the difference compared to a filter?


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## isu712 (Jan 11, 2008)

The power draw of most filters is miniscule. I calculated out how much it cost to have a hi-tech 20 gallon planted tank running (lights, filter, etc.) and it was maybe a few dollars a month. If you can get your hands on your dad's electric bill you can do the same if it lists how much each kilowatt hour costs.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Filterless 40 Breeder*

Hello Dollface. You bet you can set up the tank and do just what you've planned. Actually, the power cost to run a tank is minimal. But, if you're willing to do frequent and large water changes, all you need is a few, fast growing, stem plants, like Water Sprite, Water Wisteria, and some kinds of Rotala and Ludwigia, an air pump and an airstone to move the water around to generate a little extra O2. All this stuff is relatively inexpensive.

The plants and the water changes are key. The plants will feed off the CO2 produced by the fish and in turn provide O2 the fish need. 

The large water changes remove any toxins that build up in the water and replace minerals for the plants and fish.

I have several large tanks and this is essentially what I've always done. 

Go for it!

BBradbury


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## snail (Sep 22, 2010)

A heavily planted tank can be run very well without a filter the only problem with that is that for plants you need light and light generally costs much more to run than a filter. For example if a filter costs 1$ a month to run the lighting could easily cost 8$ a month. I'm looking into LED lights to reduce the lighting cost on my tanks. However as mentioned if you work out the actual cost of what you are running you and your father may be surprised about how little it is.

You could always use natural light, it is not a popular choice because it is hard control algae issues etc but it can work. If you could place the tank in a north facing window for example you would get plenty of light without direct sunlight. If the tank gets direct sunlight be careful it doesn't overheat and you are likely to get more algae.

Easy, fast growing stem plants like Anacharis and Wisteria are ideal for this. A nutrient rich substrate might be a good idea (look into DIY substrates).


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

A powerhead could easily be transformed into a filter if you get one that you can add a sponge onto the intake.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

I don't plan to have any livestock in this tank, and even if I were to get some it would be limited to 10 or so lamp eyes, or other similarly small fish. 

The point was that I don't want fast growing stem plants for this tank. 

The problem is that with our billing plan, everything between 12pm - 6pm during the summer is counted as 'peak time', which costs extra. I can easily set the light timers around this but a filter would have to be on 24/7.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

I would put the filter on a timer too. As long as it runs the majority of the day it will be fine. I frequently unplug my filters while feeding grindal worms to my tanks. when I forget to turn them on they are off for 12+ hours sometimes and it's not a problem at all.


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## GitMoe (Aug 30, 2010)

Work out the actual cost with everything running for a normal tank setup. I had to do this for my wife so I could run 5 tanks. She tried to use the electric bill as an excuse too. When she saw it was under $20/month to run all the tanks she didn't care anymore.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

tuffgong said:


> I would put the filter on a timer too. As long as it runs the majority of the day it will be fine. I frequently unplug my filters while feeding grindal worms to my tanks. when I forget to turn them on they are off for 12+ hours sometimes and it's not a problem at all.


+1 a coarse foam filter on a smaller power head would not only require penny's to run but ample O2 so no worry with bacteria die off. I have a 55g soil tank that has only a sponge equipped power head (no 'filter') and up to 35 growing angels without health problems. Planted tanks are very different from fish only tanks when it comes to required filtration.


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## potatoes (Dec 16, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> A powerhead could easily be transformed into a filter if you get one that you can add a sponge onto the intake.


+1, it works wonderfully and powerheads are my choice of filters in low tech tanks. THey do not cause as much surface agitation which conserves your co2


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2008)

An Eheim 2213 uses 8 watts. 
AquaClear 20 through 70 uses 6 watts. An AC 110 draws 14 watts. 
All the similarly sized AquaClear power heads draw 6 watts. 

So, you're looking a $6.00 to $8.00.
Give pops $10.00 and tell him to butt out. Unless you'll be using his water too. ;-) 

Lights and heaters are the big energy consumers. 
Your Dad's TV on standby consumes far more electricity, by the way.


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## boringname (Nov 11, 2010)

The price difference between powerheads and internal filters is so small I don't see why anyone would buy a powerhead except for running an UGF.

And internal filters usually give you more options on adjusting the flow speed and direction of the water.

As to going totally filterless, I lasted just 8 months using just a sponge filter before the water clarity got to me and I bought a regular filter. So I imagine a filterless tank would get annoyingly dirty even faster.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

I'm not looking to stick it to my dad, guys. He's expressed interest in having a display tank, but he's worried about the power draw, that's all.

Basically all it seems is that the lack of mechanical filtration might cause some water clarity issues.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

Why not think outside the box and use the plants/trimmings you grow to sell on the s&s to pay your electricity bill? java moss grows pretty fast for a low light plant. I think l quadrupled my stash by now even java fern.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

That was kind of the plan anyway.


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## snail (Sep 22, 2010)

Do you know what kind of fish you are interested in? I run two native fish tanks which I don't heat, most plants grow a bit better in colder water too.


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## seadreamer (May 6, 2007)

Dollface said:


> Basically all it seems is that the lack of mechanical filtration might cause some water clarity issues.


This is the only reason I broke down and added a filter to my tanks in the past. If it's not a problem for you or your dad then, as you've seen, there's really no need for one. 

If you have a window that gets nice afternoon sun your water will sparkle even without filtration. 

This is my unfiltered nano using Miracle Gro potting mix subtrate. I'm impressed with how clear the water has been in the month it's been set up. I did my first small water change today only out of habit. 

The next pic is a sunlit unfiltered 29g I had years ago. I intentionally allowed it to get all weedy. It got about 3 hours of afternoon sun each day. In fact, I had GSA problems in this tank until I moved it into the sunny window and the algae vanished completely.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Dollface said:


> I'm not looking to stick it to my dad, guys. He's expressed interest in having a display tank, but he's worried about the power draw, that's all.
> 
> Basically all it seems is that the lack of mechanical filtration might cause some water clarity issues.


What we're saying is to do the actual math. Grab your power bill and use the rates to calculate it (google for an easy calc). The lights are going to consume more light than any filter or powerhead. Even just plants do better with flow. The gas exchange(which will help plants too) depends on it. 

Outside of "clarity" there will be nothing to prevent mulm from settling on plants. Plants alone will produce more organic waste than you'd think. 

In all, I'd bet you spend less to operate the tank than you do to power the night light in the bathroom...


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

If you keep your house at a reasonable temp no need for a heater. We keep our house on the cold side, 63 in the winter, 65 in the summer(silly, I know to save all that money in the winter only to run the AC full blast!), so heaters are mandatory for anything I keep.


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