# dying rainbowfish - please help!



## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

Heavy breathing and hanging near the surface are a sure sign that you have ammonia or nitrite buildup in your tank. I actually had the guppies in my 1 gallon tank exhibit similar behavior and I was like, No way is that nitrite! The tank is fully planted and has been up for months! I get out the test kit and sure enough there is nitrite in the tank. The reason why was fairly obvious to me at the time, though I forget what it was. I think a shrimp had died and was wedged behind some plants. In a small tank it doesn't take much.
Anyway, I digress. The first thing to do if you see that behavior is to get out the test kits immediately. Check nitrite and ammonia levels. If you come up with nothing, check nitrate levels just to be sure they aren't ridiculously high and do a water change just for good measure. Your fish should never be gasping at the surface of the water. If they are it is a sure sign that your water parameters are off or they have some kind of parasite, which would likely be visible. That is the routine I follow and the source of the problem always presents itself even if it is sometimes unexpected.
-Aphyosemion


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## jaslyman (Jul 29, 2004)

Thanks for your note - I did not check nitrites but both ammonia and nitrates are zero and have been for several months. I didn't think you could have a high level of nitrites but not the other two, but I certainly don't have a deep understanding of the relationship between these three, other than the fact that there are different kinds of bacteria that convert ammon -> nitrites and nitrites -> nitrate, and that plants consume ammonia.

I was also less suspicious of a water quality problem because the other fish have been fine and I have been doing q2 week water changes - but it can't hurt to check so I certainly will.

Thanks again.


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## jaslyman (Jul 29, 2004)

Ok - nitrites are zero too - any other suggestions - or suggestions for other forums that might me more appropriate for this question?

Thanks


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## motifone (Nov 21, 2004)

Jason

I can't offer up a solution, but I can sympathize.

I bought 10 Praecox yesterday. Woke this morning to find one wandering very close to the surface, mouth touching the surface of water while the other healthy ones clung together deeper in the tank. He had a mouth injury, I suspect from running into the glass (which can sometimes happen with rainbows when settling into a new tank or spooked). Unfortunately, fish was dead when I got home.

Tonight, another Praecox is skimming about the surface, almost excessively breathing like you described. No injuries so to speak of. I'm not hopeful, but we will see.

No ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, or phosphate in the tank. I checked. ph is around 6.7-6.8 (store water in bag was 6.6). KH is 4, so we have a similar CO2. 

I do have a sudden ick breakout I need to tend to, so maybe it is a parasite? Have you added any new fish, drop the temp suddenly?

Pretty fish, but too expensive @ 5.99 each to drop like flies...


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## motifone (Nov 21, 2004)

Make that 3 dead outta 10. Bought them 2 days ago.

Bummer.


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## jaslyman (Jul 29, 2004)

Bummer - sorry to hear about your troubles as well. The female that I mentioned died yesterday - so now I just have one adult male and one baby male. Hate to leave 'em on their own since they like to school from what I hear, but given my experiences I'm reluctant to buy any more! 

I wonder if rainbows (m. praecox in particular) require higher O2 levels? Maybe that's why the other fish are doing fine, but these are not. 

No ick in the moment at my tank (last outbreak was over a year ago) - hope yours clears up soon. 

Thanks for posting....


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## sanj (Jan 11, 2004)

I have recently bought six...all ok, but two years ago i had eight i another planted tank and they were fine for the best part of a year and then began to drop off one by one until all had died out. All the other fish were fine.

I had read on the net of others having unexplained losses, while other fish were fine. Maybe they do require a higher o2 conc?? not sure if that is it though.

I used diy co2 in that tank with no night time shut off, but now I have a more sophsticated system that does.


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## motifone (Nov 21, 2004)

Jason & All

Sorry to hear that.

The 2nd one to die -- the one last night that was skimming about the surface -- I actually put out of his misery. He was flipping upside down, lodging in plants.... not good. So, I took him out in fear he would infect others.

I run pressurized Co2 on a Milwaukee pH meter. I keep my ph about 6.7-6.8, with around a KH of 4. That's about 20-25ppm. Fearing not enough O2, I dropped an airstone in my tank overnight and awoke to another dead Praecox. Keep in mind, aside from the Praecox I fished out, I didn't see any others doing the death dance along the surface. So, not sure what killed him. BUT, the airstone raised the tank pH to 7.0... pressurized C)2 couldn't keep up... so, who knows if the slight raise in pH did him in. I will not use the airstone again because I'm told that if O2 is in short supply, most if not all the fish would be gasping at surface. That's not to say Praecox don't like more O2 than my tank has, but it's dubious if that's the problem.

Let's see how the remaining 7 do.... they are not eating flakes yet, but that's common of most newly introduced fish.

(wondering if I should've got the Congos)


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## motifone (Nov 21, 2004)

man, 4 outta 10 dead. 

maybe they will stabilize but I think I need to see how flexible the LFS is on their no guarantee policy. maybe replace one or two if my water proves to be fine...


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## motifone (Nov 21, 2004)

I have a 5th one that will probably croak. He's doing the same thing death dance, hanging out at the surface. By nighttime, a big boil of sorts had appeared on his side. I'm going to change some water, and continue with the melafix/quick cure regiment for ick.

These fish are so poliete, being sure to only have 1 die day. lol

These fish also do a lot of "chasing" each other once the lights go out -- or shall I call it harrassing? bullying? I thought I read this kind of aggressive play is common for them. I'm afraid if I add a female to the all male group, it could get worse. Not sure if the fish are bullying each other to death. Too early to tell....


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## dewalltheway (Jan 19, 2005)

I am new at all this and this might be a long shot, but your tank condition might be wrong for that rainbow fish. I looked up some info on that fish and it likes water temp to be between 64 - 72 and yours is at 78 and it likes it's PH at 5.8 - 6.5 and yours is around 7. Like I said, it is a long shot. Hope you don't lose anymore.


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## mrk442 (Oct 25, 2004)

Warmer water holds less oxygen something to consider. My fish exhibited the same symptoms when my cat "devil" played with the regulator and took my 40 from a bubble every 5 seconds or so to a about 20 bubbles a second . I came home and one of my rams was already dead another was gasping at the surface and floating upside down my rubber lip was dead and 1 of my SAE was floating upside down on the gravel. I started massive aeration and used my outflow from the canister to create disturbance in the water surface than i took the fish that where not moving and held them "slippery guys" in the outflow of my now aerating power head it took a while but even the upside down floaters that where barely moving there gills did recover kinda like fish CPR i guess. 

Point of the story is i have had this happen on a slower scale before and one fish at a time slowly started indicating the symptoms you described i would try killing the Co2 for a little while and see what happens also my tank is almost air tight uptop so i am sure that played a role with the slowly suffocating ones i was able to open the lid and the problem stopped "than i got some faster growing plants and now its definitely not an issue"  Pearling


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## jaslyman (Jul 29, 2004)

dewalltheway said:


> I am new at all this and this might be a long shot, but your tank condition might be wrong for that rainbow fish. I looked up some info on that fish and it likes water temp to be between 64 - 72 and yours is at 78 and it likes it's PH at 5.8 - 6.5 and yours is around 7. Like I said, it is a long shot. Hope you don't lose anymore.


The info that I've found both online and in my books suggest that my conditions should be satisfactory - but who knows, after all, they're not doing well....


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## jaslyman (Jul 29, 2004)

mrk442 said:


> i would try killing the Co2 for a little while and see what happens


I've thought about this - my plants are overall doing pretty well, so I could certainly just cut the CO2. My sick female has since expired, but the adult male and "adolescent" male are both doing very well, so who knows. I've kept the CO2 at about 15BPM or so, and the pH has held steady around 7.0. Maybe I'll keep things as is and if problems start up with my last two I'll kill the carbon dioxide....

I'd like to give these two males some more company so they can happily school away, but as I said before I'm very wary of sinking more $$ into these fish.

I love the idea of a big school of neon or cardinal tetras, but the last time I put some neons in there my krib went on a mad hunting/killing spree, trying to pick 'em off one by one - it killed one and i managed to save the rest and bring 'em back to the store.

Alternatively I'd like to try congo tetras though those are also pricey, relatively speaking....


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## motifone (Nov 21, 2004)

Jaslyman, 

My original purchase of 10 reduced down to about 4 who survived. Haven't had any deaths in the group in a week, so I think things have stabilized. A fifth praecox is in a holding bucket, getting treated for cloudy eyes. I added 4 more Praecox (this time from Petco of all places), rounding out the group in the tank to 8. All seem fine and healthy, eating well. The addition of a female seems to keep the school tighter.

My theory is that a disease of some sort (maybe the ick) killed off most of the fish. The infection probably affected their gills, which caused them to ride the surface in search of more oxygen.

I toyed with the idea of Congos as well. Another nice fish, but I was afraid they were too big to keep in a sufficient school in my tank.


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## jwholmes (Feb 27, 2004)

Hmm, I have 7 Praecox and 3 Celebes rainbows in my 75g with a PH of 6.6 and a temp of 82 (I'm in Hawaii and can't cool it more). Bought 4 Celebes and 1 disappeared never to be found anywhere. 9 Praecox and I lost 2 the first week but all the rest have been good for months. I introduce them into the tank very slowly and carefully which may help. Maybe they were shocked at intro and just aren't recovering? My Rasboras and Tetras also did great but I lost a couple of Ottos right after purchase. All I can come up with is a water problem or system shock.


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