# Sulawesi shrimp guide *in progress*



## fishsandwitch

Sulawesi shrimp are the newest shrimp for the hobby. They are very expensive running 12-15 bucks a pop. They are also very sensitive, needing very specific water parameters. 

*WATER PARAMETERS*
Parameters should be almost exactly as follows: 
PH of 8.0-8.2
GH 1-2
KH 4-6
Temp of about 82
The best way to achieve these parameters is to use water with the correct GH, the PH and KH of the source water not being important as the crushed coral will take care of that. The substrate should be crushed coral. Many people mix the coral with sand because it looks a lot better that way. You also need to use water with the correct parameters for water changes, so you will need some kind of bucket with crushed coral, a heater and an air stone in it. These shrimp are so sensitive it is not recommended to do any more than 10 percent water change at a time. This should be plenty however as you shouldn't be keeping these with any fish.

More specific water paramaters by lake, thanks billb!
Water Parameters *Towuti Lake - Harlequins, Redlines, Red Orchids, Yellow cheeks and many others are from here*
Temperature average: 30 C
pH: 8.3
gH: 6
kH: 5-6
Conductivity: 181
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 2
Iron, Copper: 0

Water Parameters Mantano Lake - *Where Cardinals are from*
Temperature: 29.5 C
pH: 8.6
gH: 7
kH: 5
Conductivity: 227
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Iron, Copper: 0
Phosphate: 1



*TANK SETUP*
But having correct water parameters alone will not suffice to keep these shrimp. They even more sensitive than other types of shrimp known for being tough to keep such as blue tigers, black tigers, and SSS crystal red shrimp.
The tank should not be heavily planted, these shrimp like to climb around on rocks. Lava rock works best. You want your rocks to be stacked so that the shrimp can be in nooks and cranny around the rock work, and also hang out upside down. They seem to like this. Some moss is good, but not covering all the rock. Driftwood is present in the lakes as well, it looks a lot like manzanita (sp?!) which is sold on this forum in the SnS, just do a search. 

*TANK MATURITY*
You still need more than a good layout and good parameters to keep these shrimp though. A freshly cycled tank is doomed for failure. The tank should be well established with lots of bio-film. A good way to do this would be to use the tank for fish for a few months then switch it into a shrimp tank. These shrimp will also appreciate Indian almond leaves, but don't use too many at once or it could reduce the PH. This is unlikely however unless the entire bottom is covered in them. One or two at a time is fine.

*FEEDING*
These shrimp eat the same stuff as other shrimp. Just remember not to overfeed or feed too much protein. Both these mistakes kill shrimp. 
Try fresh veggies, algae wafers, shrimp pellets, and specialty shrimp foods like mosura and shirakura(sp??)

Here are some pics of the lake if you want to do a biotope 

















*OTHER SULAWESI CRITTERS*








Tylomania snails make good tank mates, they are very large compared to pest snails growing to several inches as adults. They give live birth to a single young snail at a time. Some species eat plants.

Many awesome fish are from the sulawesi lakes as well, but they are not available in the hobby as of yet with the exception of one goby species. Others maybe but very hard to find.

some people on the forum sell the snails from time to time such as mgamer20o0 and ZID ZULANDER. You can PM them if you are looking. 

*FURTHER READING*
Courtesy of billb, thanks for these awsome links!
Here are some good pictures of the Malili lakes and the shrimps natural habitat
( in Japanese)
http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia...anaomatano.htm
http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia-sulawesi-danao.htm
http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia...-danaoposo.htm
A photo journal of a collecting trip to Matano and Towuti (in German)
http://www.garnelenhaus.de/pageflip/...t-sulawesi.pdf 
A thread in Arizona Inverts with the english translation! look down a couple of posts
http://arizonainverts.com/forums/ind...showtopic=1808
A scientific paper describing 8 species of Sulawesi shrimp and some notes on habitat
http://rmbr.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/57/57rbz343-452.pdf
I saw a post with a link to German site focused on diseases of shrimp and crayfish! Unbelievable! The German hobbyists are way ahead. Here is a link to the Google translated site:
http://translate.google.com/translat...=en&sa=G
For those interested, I did find a very useful paper that was recently published on Lake Matano water chemistry. Here is the link
http://aslo.org/lo/pdf/vol_53/issue_1/0319.pdf
If you can't open the file, do a google search on this title:
"The biogeochemistry of tropical lakes: A case study from Lake Matano, Indonesia"
In a nut shell - this is an ancient and stable lake. The upper water layers are clear and nutrient poor (oligotrophic). Low P, N and organic matter coupled with fairly high Chromium and Nickel concentrations. These metals may contribute to the low abundance of phytoplankton.
German site with a video of the Malili lakes showing the shrimp in their natural habitat. look about 1/2 way down the page
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...-Pvd_9ZLoeCg1Q

The original journal from the expadition which produced these shrimp with lots of cool pics!!http://www.planetinverts.com/sulawesi_expedition.html
*Any other questions, just ask and I will edit the OP to be more complete!*

*Please note I am not an expert on these shrimp someone just suggested a write up, so this is a start and I will make changes based on peoples responses. It is possible not all this information is 100% correct this is a work in progress and is based on my knowledge of reading various sources.*


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## VadimShevchuk

Cool guide. To bad im mot ready yet or experienced to set up a tank like this.


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## janftica

thanks for the info...its great to hear how others have managed to get them to survive.
I still have a few in my tank, so Im hoping they will continue to survive. Its hard to see them as you said, they hang upside down from the rocks...then hide when they spot you looking at them.

I am glad you mentioned about the water change, as I have to add water to my tank and was not sure how to do it...now I do!! thanks


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## VincentK

"tough to beep such as blue tigers, black tigers, and SSS crystal red shrimp." Did you mean keep?


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## Guns286

Great write up fishsandwitch! This is exactly what I was looking for. I have a couple of questions; Do the almond leafs leech alot of tannins? Will they create water discoloration, or is that what you're looking for? Also, are there different types of Sulawesi snails? I read somewhere that the shrimp seem to like having the snails in the tank with them. Is there a "good" amount of shrimp to have, per tank? What I mean is, are the different types of shrimp social? Do they need a certain amount of space, each?


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## Guns286

VincentK said:


> "tough to beep such as blue tigers, black tigers, and SSS crystal red shrimp." Did you mean keep?


No, I'm pretty sure he meant "beep". It's a well known fact that tiger and CR shrimp still carry beepers. Amanos, bamboo, and even RCS have upgraded to Iphones and Droids. They just have to get with the times.


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## HOLLYWOOD

Excellent writeup now if you have a tank ready you could be the recipient to EPIC's RAOK!


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## adroit

Guns286 said:


> No, I'm pretty sure he meant "beep". It's a well known fact that tiger and CR shrimp still carry beepers. Amanos, bamboo, and even RCS have upgraded to Iphones and Droids. They just have to get with the times.


LOL too funny


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## fishsandwitch

HOLLYWOOD said:


> Yeah I pmed him asking if he would be willing to give me a week to switch one of my mature tanks to a sulawesi set up. I could never afford these though so I dont have a tank set up for them yet. I dont see any reason why switching a mature tank to a sulawesi tank would be less than ideal though, I could have it very nice quickly.


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## fishsandwitch

VincentK said:


> "tough to beep such as blue tigers, black tigers, and SSS crystal red shrimp." Did you mean keep?


haha, good catch! fixed it


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## Nue

Sweet! I was thinking of biotype for my tylos.


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## fishsandwitch

Guns286 said:


> Great write up fishsandwitch! This is exactly what I was looking for. I have a couple of questions; Do the almond leafs leech alot of tannins? Will they create water discoloration, or is that what you're looking for? Also, are there different types of Sulawesi snails? I read somewhere that the shrimp seem to like having the snails in the tank with them. Is there a "good" amount of shrimp to have, per tank? What I mean is, are the different types of shrimp social? Do they need a certain amount of space, each?


One or two indian almond leaves will be unnoticable as far as tannins. 

Yes many people say the shrimp do better with snails, I dont think this is true based on common sense but it could be. They dont benefit each other in any way. Oh yeah except making your tank super awesome!

Any size tank is fine but the larger the better as it is more stable. I would recommend a 20L or 29 gallon at the minimum, no reason to go all cheapo 10g with shrimp these expensive!

Some species have been reported as being more social than others, shrimp per gallon isn't important it is just important to get a decent number of shrimp so you have a higher chance of success. Id say 15+ of a species would be ideal.


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## VadimShevchuk

if your gonna pay hundreds of dollars for shrimp, then u might as well go with a GLA 48 gallon tank!:hihi:


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## AquaDean

Excelent fishsandwitch!!
This is information that a lot of folks are looking for and will be helpful to many.


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## Francis Xavier

VadimShevchuk said:


> if your gonna pay hundreds of dollars for shrimp, then u might as well go with a GLA 48 gallon tank!:hihi:


Nah, if you're gonna pay hundreds for shrimp, might as well go all out with ADA. Why not spoil the shrimp?!


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## tuonor

Thanks for putting this together. Definitely on my list of things to do at some point...


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## xJaypex

when you say you must have crushed coral as a substrate, is that when using ro? What if water out of tap already comes out with a ph of 8.0-8.2?


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## fishsandwitch

you must have crushed coral. it keeps the PH stable.

If you have ph of 8.2 out of the tap 99 percent of the time your TDS is going to be too high for these shrimp 99 percent of the time. Ill update the post with TDS recommended levels tomorrow.


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## billb

There are a lot of folks who use a neutral substrate and either treat the water before adding it or put crushed coral in the filter. One draw back to having crushed coral as a substrate is that you may have your TDS continue to increase. You can monitor this and set up a water change schedule to keep things in a specific range.

I have a couple Sulawesi tanks, one with crushed coral and one with inert gravel and sand. In my case, I treat RO water by putting it in a five gallon bucket with a layer of crushed coral. After a couple days, I have water at 8.2 pH with kH and gH at around 4. The TDS is around 150. The inert substrate keeps these parameters pretty stable. Top off is done with RO. The tank with the crushed coral gets a 10% water change every week and this keeps things stable. Ultimately, you need to decide what will work best for maintaining a uniform environment.


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## VincentK

Dude, so like I heard there were a bunch of different types of Sulawesi? Like colors and stuff? Like what's the difference?


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## Burks

VincentK said:


> Dude, so like I heard there were a bunch of different types of Sulawesi? Like colors and stuff? Like what's the difference?


It's a blanket term for shrimp from Sulawesi. There are multiple species (close to a dozen I think?). I don't keep up much with them since I have little interest in them right now. Next year, sure. Now, no.


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## VincentK

Burks said:


> It's a blanket term for shrimp from Sulawesi. There are multiple species (close to a dozen I think?). I don't keep up much with them since I have little interest in them right now. Next year, sure. Now, no.


Oh, so when most people refer to Sulawesi now referring to like Cardinal species (red and white, I forget what they're called).


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## aelysa

Cardinal is a species in the Sulawesi group of shrimp.

A Sulawesi Cardinal (_Caridinia dennerli_)


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## Burks

VincentK said:


> Oh, so when most people refer to Sulawesi now referring to like Cardinal species (red and white, I forget what they're called).


Well, that can be ONE of them they are referring to. It'd be like us saying "Asian Shrimp". Well, that could include Tigers, CRS, RCS (and all the varieties), and so on. 

Here are some of the species coming from Sulawesi: http://www.guitarfish.org/2008/02/07/new-sulawesi-shrimp


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## billb

Here are some links with info useful to folks wanting more info on shrimp from Sulawesi

*Here are some good pictures of the Malili lakes and the shrimps natural habitat*
*( in Japanese)*
http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia-sulawesi-danaomatano.htm
http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia-sulawesi-danao.htm
http://equator.web.fc2.com/indonesia-sulawesi-danaoposo.htm
*A photo journal of a collecting trip to Matano and Towuti (in German)*
http://www.garnelenhaus.de/pageflip/sulawesi-2008/reisebericht-sulawesi.pdf 
*A thread in Arizona Inverts with the english translation! look down a couple of posts*
http://arizonainverts.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1808
*A scientific paper describing 8 species of Sulawesi shrimp and some notes on habitat*
http://rmbr.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/57/57rbz343-452.pdf
*I saw a post with a link to German site focused on diseases of shrimp and crayfish! Unbelievable! The German hobbyists are way ahead. Here is a link to the Google translated site:*
http://translate.google.com/transla...&prev=/search?q=crusta+krankheiten&hl=en&sa=G
For those interested, I did find a very useful paper that was recently published on *Lake Matano water chemistry*. Here is the link
http://aslo.org/lo/pdf/vol_53/issue_1/0319.pdf
If you can't open the file, do a google search on this title:
"The biogeochemistry of tropical lakes: A case study from Lake Matano, Indonesia"
In a nut shell - this is an ancient and stable lake. The upper water layers are clear and nutrient poor (oligotrophic). Low P, N and organic matter coupled with fairly high Chromium and Nickel concentrations. These metals may contribute to the low abundance of phytoplankton.
*German site with a video of the Malili lakes showing the shrimp in their natural habitat. *look about 1/2 way down the page
http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhiUdvvOnsCWG7RH-Pvd_9ZLoeCg1Q
*Water Parameters Towuti Lake* - Harlequins, Redlines, Red Orchids, Yellow cheeks and many others are from here
Temperature average: 30 C
pH: 8.3
gH: 6
kH: 5-6
Conductivity: 181
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 2
Iron, Copper: 0
*Water Parameters Mantano Lake* - Where Cardinals are from
Temperature: 29.5 C
pH: 8.6
gH: 7
kH: 5
Conductivity: 227
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Iron, Copper: 0
Phosphate: 1


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## xJaypex

Just a thought here. I just a read a thread talking about how fresh clams cant survive with a filter on and prefer just a powerhead. Any chance these shrimp would have a higher chance of surviving in a set up with no filtration but a powerhead?


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## fishsandwitch

good info bill, Ill edit that into the original post, giving you credit of course!


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## billb

I apologize if that post was over stepping. Your intention of creating a thread to get good info out there on these shrimp is a very great idea. I had compiled this for my local club and though it would be helpful.

I hope you are successfull in getting this to be a sticky - please feel free to edit the post as you see fit!

Bill


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## fishsandwitch

no Im glad you posted it! I had found that info about the specific lake water paramaters, but couldnt find what shrimp were from what lake so I just ommited and was hoping somebody would have that!

I found a third lake, lake poso. Any shrimp from there or is that the snail lake? (orange poso snail)


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## catfishbi

anyone ever think this is good for Sulawesi shrimp?? Eco-Complete African Cichlid SAND Substrate


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## billb

fishsandwitch said:


> no Im glad you posted it! I had found that info about the specific lake water paramaters, but couldnt find what shrimp were from what lake so I just ommited and was hoping somebody would have that!
> 
> I found a third lake, lake poso. Any shrimp from there or is that the snail lake? (orange poso snail)


The link in my previous post with the paper describing the eight new Sulawesi species has a comlete list of the 15 described species from the Malili lakes - (Matano, Towuti and Mahalona) and the 6 described species from Lake Poso. . White orchids are supposed to be from there but I can't confirm.


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## Anubia

*Close but no cigar...*

Excellent thread guys...

Just a quick question that has confounded me and had me losing sleep.

Have had a Shrimp nano tank for some time with a mixture of CRS and Sulawesi Cardinals. Have been very lucky to get both breeds to berry and was ecstatic when both Sulawesi C and CRS females borne young shrimplets.

CRS had a much larger volume of babies maybe 50% more than the Sulawesi C's, but both seemed to live in harmony whilst bringing up the young....( Or so I thought )...

After a period of 2>3 wks I lost all of my Sulawesi Cardinals overnight. First thoughts were that my water params had gone up and the more sensitive shrimp had perished to the volume / head count increase. Ran water tests and no evidence of spike...No sign of young or parents were found whilst rooting around the Aquascape.:icon_sad:

Am now at a loss to fathom as to why I lost 20+ Sulawesi shrimp overnight. Has any of the forum members kept both breeds within the same biotope and experienced canabilism from CRS to other shrimp breeds.

Am still happy with the number of CRS now accumulating and plan to keep SC's again when I can find them available but will house them in their own biotope...

Any thoughts welcome...


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## Finalplay10

Nice thread. When I first came to this forum about 2 months ago to feed my planted invert tank ambitions I know that I found these "Care Sheet" threads to be invaluable. Possibility of adding recommended plant species ? Maybe some native Sulawesi species ? I don't even know if any are on the market yet as I'm pretty sure this lake is very new to the market. Great post though and keep up the good work !


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## Anubia

*Sulawesi Cardinal*

Hi Finalplay....

The Sulawesi Cardinals were only available once at Maidenhead Aquatics - (Taunton) hence I bought 8...They were not cheap but was amazed by the colours and the prancing white front feet feeders, which were constantly on the move. The Cardinal prefers a flat rock scape and tend to stick to these environments whereas the CRS will graze where it deems fit.

Will certainly hope to keep these lovely shrimp again but am having problems locating a UK breeder in the South West. Cannot confirm that the 8 purchased from my LFS were from the wild or tank bred. Would like to hope they were UK tank bred rather than the constant raping from wild environments to appease this hobby. But hey what a lovely hobby.....:icon_bigg.

Am now planning my 2nd planted nano as I'm getting the bug and wish to improve my aqua-scaping skills and keep different plants and fauna.

Regards, Chris


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## DUHK

Can I use Aragonite as the substrate for the shrimp instead of crushed coral? I read that aragonite keeps the pH fairly stable at 8.2.

Please let me know what you think!

Also, would I be able to grow Anubias petite in the same tank?


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## Dazzlet

Is there any where in uk that sell these shrimp or snails for a sulawesi biotope?


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## mordalphus

Contact Jared at atyidae.com, he is in the UK and really obsessed with Sulawesi


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## Pukki

Hi guys. 

You all seem to have such amazing knowledge and I was suggested to come to this forum. 

I'm quite a newbie to fish keeping and recently just got some shrimps. The last one that I got was a Sulawesi cardinal. He's been in my tank for a 10 days or so and seems happy. 

I've been told that since I have ADA aqua soil in my tank it may not be ideal to sustain the little guy in there. 

My question is, if my water was not ideal, would he have survived this far? i have had him for about 10 days now. Or will he just drop dead one day?

I really don't want to see him go as he's pretty much favourite thing in my tank. 

Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated. 

Ps, feel free to check out my tank in my signature. 

Thanks.


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## dougolasjr

Pukki said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> You all seem to have such amazing knowledge and I was suggested to come to this forum.
> 
> I'm quite a newbie to fish keeping and recently just got some shrimps. The last one that I got was a Sulawesi cardinal. He's been in my tank for a 10 days or so and seems happy.
> 
> I've been told that since I have ADA aqua soil in my tank it may not be ideal to sustain the little guy in there.
> 
> My question is, if my water was not ideal, would he have survived this far? i have had him for about 10 days now. Or will he just drop dead one day?
> 
> I really don't want to see him go as he's pretty much favourite thing in my tank.
> 
> Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Ps, feel free to check out my tank in my signature.
> 
> Thanks.



The first question are what are params for you tank?

PH
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
GH
KH
Temp
Size
Fauna


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## Dazzlet

mordalphus said:


> Contact Jared at atyidae.com, he is in the UK and really obsessed with Sulawesi


How can i contact him i checked that site out but there dont seem to be a contact


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## dougolasjr

Is malawa a Sulawesi species?


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## Soothing Shrimp

yepper.


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## mordalphus

http://atyidae.wordpress.com/contact/


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## Soothing Shrimp

Strange that I don't see Caridina pareparensis parvidentata on there. (?)


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## mordalphus

Because they aren't a lake shrimp they are river shrimp in Sulawesi, not from the lakes region.


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## Soothing Shrimp

mystery solved.


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## Pukki

dougolasjr said:


> The first question are what are params for you tank?
> 
> PH
> Ammonia
> Nitrite
> Nitrate
> GH
> KH
> Temp
> Size
> Fauna


I'm going to now prove how much of a newbie I am... I know that my nitrates and nitrites are zero. 

I don't have a PH, GH or KH checking kit. 
Temp: 26 degrees celsius
Size: 12 gallons (or did you want dimensions?)
Fauna: Anubias, Java Fern, Hygrophila, Eleocharis, Dwarf Hairgrass and a random bushy thing which didn't have a name at the LFS. It's on the right hand side of my tank.

Is this information any help at all?

However, I will take your list to my LFS and buy all the kits in order to check those params.

Appreciate your reply.

Thanks!


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## assasin6547

I know this is an old thread... but are any of you keeping any sulawesi shrimp (not malawas) in water between 68 and 72 degrees F? I want to try my hand as all my other params are great but I'm worried that if I increase the temp my neocaridina will get bacterial infections, is there a happy medium?


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## mordalphus

No, sulawesi lake shrimp need a temp above 78, otherwise they die. 

I keep mine above 80 so they'll breed readily.


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## Hmoobthor

good guide...hope this thread grows so we can learn about them more and captive breed them


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