# Planning a MINI M nano...



## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Im likin it 

you'll have to do a comparison shot when you get it setup IRL


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Looks nice. But remember ADA tanks are rimless :-D. You may consider some kind of boraras species or microrasbora species. It should look nice in your minimalistic tank. Blyxa japonica would be nice to add to the background. Or maybe Utricularia graminifolia, which looks exactly like what you have in your drawing, just get ready for some serious slopage to make it look taller in the backgroudn cuz utricularia graminifolia is very short.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Great start here. Hope to see you in the ADA mini club here soon. lol I have the mini-s and absolutely love it. I have pressurized Co2 on mine and still dose excel. HC loves excel so much to the point that I usually double the recommended dosage. 

The ADA fert line is not that bad cost wise with the Mini tanks. With the mini-s I give 1/2 squirts daily of Brighty K and Step 1 with some iron and fleet thrown in there. The large bottles will last me about a year lol. 

Good luck


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Hey Yzmxer99,

I have HC and Riccia in my Mini M with no CO2. I've been dosing .5 ml (per directions) every other day. Some of my HC and Riccia is turning transparent, But I still see some green growth of the HC. Should I increase the Excel dosage to every day? 

Also, with ADA tanks, is it hard to cycle the tanks since there is no top? I've been using ammonia but no matter what I does, it can go from 6ppm to 0ppm within a day. Is this because of evaporation of ammonia into the atmosphere? I'm pretty sure it's not because my tank is cycling it.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

ADA tanks can cycle just like any other tank. Your ammonia is depleted to zero because of your plants. And don't dose ammonia because you're just asking for algae.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Why such a thick bed of Aquasoil?


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Ah, should have mentioned more about that sketch. It was when I first thought I would just use an AGA 5.5 gallon tank, so that is the reason for the black trim. And I was also too lazy to slope the soil from 1" in the front to 3" in the rear, so that is the reason for the solid 2" blob of substrate.

Would the blyxa be an _addition_ to the background of hairgrass or a _substitution_? Will the two plants be able to co-exist in the back without one drowning the other out? Just thinking out loud, as it would be quite interesting to have two similarly shaped plants cover the rear. The Utricularia graminifolia suggestion is an interesting one, I'll have to do a bit more research on this plant.

I believe I have a few ounces of dry, separated ferts somewhere, but I'd rather use an all-encompassing bottle for simplicity. You think I'll need the CO2 though with this amount of light?

*volatile:* As sandiegoryu mentioned, the plants are using the ammonia, it is certainly not evaporating to the air. Just another reason why planted tanks can handle a much larger bio-load! (But don't use that as an excuse to overstock)


Cheers,
Marty


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Fish'InMN said:


> *volatile:* As sandiegoryu mentioned, the plants are using the ammonia, it is certainly not evaporating to the air. Just another reason why planted tanks can handle a much larger bio-load!...
> Marty


No offense, but that holds true where the plants are growing, settled, and healthy. A situation where your choice of plants don't do well and end up dieing faster than they grow, you could end up with serious issues, and sharp, longlasting ammonia/nitirite spikes.

Check out this article:
http://www.aquariumboard.com/forums/articles/26.htm


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Homer_Simpson said:


> No offense, but that holds true where the plants are growing, settled, and healthy. A situation where your choice of plants don't do well and end up dieing faster than they grow, you could end up with serious issues, and sharp, longlasting ammonia/nitirite spikes.


Simply a technicality; I assumed the tank was established and fully planted for my response. If this is not the case then my response is not applicable.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Yes that is also true homer. But his ammonia was disappearing so that is the only conclusion...

I think you could work with blyxa as an addition. I just don't know how well it would do mid tech. I have a few in mid tech and it's alive, but I dunno if it's growing because I see it everyday. Its like looking at your father everyday and you can't tell if he's getting older :-D. I think the thing with Utricularia Graminifolia is that if you can grow HC, you can grow this. And I'm growing HC fine in a relatively mid-tech flourish excel provided tank.


This is what I had in mind for you with the UG. 










Btw that is a tank done by Oliver Knott, one of the finest aquascapers.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

volatile said:


> Hey Yzmxer99,
> 
> I have HC and Riccia in my Mini M with no CO2. I've been dosing .5 ml (per directions) every other day. Some of my HC and Riccia is turning transparent, But I still see some green growth of the HC. Should I increase the Excel dosage to every day?
> 
> Also, with ADA tanks, is it hard to cycle the tanks since there is no top? I've been using ammonia but no matter what I does, it can go from 6ppm to 0ppm within a day. Is this because of evaporation of ammonia into the atmosphere? I'm pretty sure it's not because my tank is cycling it.


Wow kind of a head scratcher here. I do a .75ml daily dose and a 2.5 ml 50% bi-weekly water change dose. So I am doing a TON more than you. But Riccia no likey the high Excel dose. So you can try it, but the riccia may take a hit. 

I have cherries and ottos with no signs harm from the excel level. But my HC comes to life when I push it up a little.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

sandiegoryu said:


> I think you could work with blyxa as an addition. I just don't know how well it would do mid tech. I have a few in mid tech and it's alive, but I dunno if it's growing because I see it everyday. Its like looking at your father everyday and you can't tell if he's getting older :-D. I think the thing with Utricularia Graminifolia is that if you can grow HC, you can grow this. And I'm growing HC fine in a relatively mid-tech flourish excel provided tank.


The Oliver Knott tank is indeed quite stunning and I see why you suggested UG. I don't think I'll try to use it this time around though, perhaps in a future re-scape.

I think I'm also going to shy away from blyxa japonica, not because of the CO2 needs but because its not what I was originally looking for. (I may actually add some DIY CO2 as it is an easy connection to the PVC heater manifold.) _Elocharis acicularis_ has a smaller (width) leaf and creates a better "lawn" than blyxa, in my opinion. Are there any height concerns with either plant, out of curiosity?

The foreground candidates are not so easily dismissed. HC, glosso, and _Marsilea hirsuta_ all 'fit the bill' well and each has its own quirks and intricacies. I think HC and MH are tied for first right now, with the favor going slightly towards MH for its apparently more forgiving needs. Then again, if I add some CO2 anyways, the HC would grow exceptionally well...


Decisions, decisions...
Marty


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Thanks sandiegoryu, Yzmxer99, Homer, and Fish'InMN. I guess I should have cycled the tank using ammonia FIRST, and then added the HC. I've read the link you pasted Homer. So I guess my next step is to make sure my plants are all healthy, growing, and established, and not dying before I can add a small load of fish? I already have some Flourish Excel but looks like I may have to get some Flourish Trace and Potassium, or Rex Grigg's fertilizers..

Fish'InMN. I think it may have been slightly rude and inappropriate to "hijack" your thread and ask my own questions. I probably should have just asked Yzmxer99 in private. But am grateful for all the useful replies I got. I hope that you didn't mind and if so, I apologize. Thanks for the useful info guys!


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

volatile said:


> Thanks sandiegoryu, Yzmxer99, Homer, and Fish'InMN. I guess I should have cycled the tank using ammonia FIRST, and then added the HC...


Not necessarily.... If you were to purchase healthy plants, plant them, set up adequate lighting, and co2 right off the bat, wait 2-3 weeks and then start adding fish, starting with otos, you should be fine as far as biofiltration goes. Although I don't anticipate you would have problems, just to be sure, I would recommend testing the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates before you put the oto fish in. Many aquarium shops will test water for free. 

Here are a couple of excellent articles that list step by step how you could setup a planted tank this way without any cycling problems.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/plants/randall_Setting up.html

Hope that helps
Regards


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Not necessarily.... If you were to purchase healthy plants, plant them, set up adequate lighting, and co2 right off the bat, wait 2-3 weeks and then start adding fish, starting with otos, you should be fine as far as biofiltration goes. Although I don't anticipate you would have problems, just to be sure, I would recommend testing the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates before you put the oto fish in. Many aquarium shops will test water for free.
> 
> Here are a couple of excellent articles that list step by step how you could setup a planted tank this way without any cycling problems.
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm
> ...


Now THAT is something I can agree with! I have never added ammonia to start a cycle on any tank, rather I follow Homer's summarized steps as above. And no problem with hijacking this thread, I don't have much else to add until my tank and supplies arrive. 


Cheers,
Marty


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Yes that is true Homer. Just go to rexgrigg.com and most of your question will be solved. There is a cycling section there and it says how you can almost completely skip the old cycling process if you plant heavily right off the bat.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

I have all the API water testing kits so I'll be sure to do that before I add fish. I was considering oto cats or cory cats beforehand but I think with my tank only being a 5.5 gallon (even less now because of rocks and aquasoil, more like a 4 gallon) I can't add them, at least not in groups of 3-4 or whatever they are recommended in.

I have read the rexgrigg's before. I guess I need to go to Petsmart and pick up a bunch of Foxtail and swords to establish my tank. What's confusing is that Rex says to start dosing fertilizers from the beginning, whereas one of the links Fish'InMN posted from Chuck says that you should wait 8 weeks before dosing fertilizers. Unfortunately, I think if I don't start dosing something other than Excel soon, my Riccia is going to die.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Well, I had a large post typed out and submitted, but it did not go through for some reason. So, he's the skinny...

I had a bunch of time at work last week and so I made a sketch of the equipment layout, under the tank in the bookshelf/cabinet. As you can see below, I am planning on using CO2, but only DIY/Yeast at this point. It should be plenty for this small tank and will last quite a while I imagine. Otherwise, the setup is fairly simply: the ZooMed input goes directly to the filter, output goes through heater/CO2 manifold and back to tank with the spray bar.










My only conern with this setup at the moment is how much flow will be coming out of the whole closed loop system. I'm not sure if the ZooMed can handle any sort of head pressure. We will see.

At this point I am going to start looking for HC and hairgrass and I will hopefully be able to set the tank up next weekend.  :thumbsup:


Cheers,
Marty


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

I think you should take out the control valve from your CO2 because there's a chance that the yeast reactor's pressure could build up to be so high that it explodes. Instead try to find a mixture of water, sugar, and yeast that give you the right amount of CO2.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Good call on that valve, it must have slipped my mind. I _could_ use some sort of control valve that bleeds off the extra CO2, but I don't think that's worth it. I'll just find, as you said, an appropriate mix of yeast and sugar.

The tank, substrates (AquaSoil + PowerSand), a few *excellent* pieces of 'darkwood' and a lot of AquaJournals arrived Thursday. Shameless plug for Jeff at ADGshop.com, for all his help. The ZooMed 501 and heater arrived today and are still in their respective boxes as I will be re-evaluating the cabinet/bookcase I initially chose to put this tank on; I know it will hold at least 15 gallons of water, but I want a larger area to place the tank on for aesthetic purposes (make the tank look smaller). Kind of complicated without pictures, and my camera has been loaned off, but it nearly fills the entire top of the bookcase at the moment and I don't like the look.

The only other equipment I am waiting on is a Heyco water-tight cord grip for PVC heater manifold and a CO2 drop checker.

Sorry for the lame update; I don't really plan on getting this tank set up by the end of June, so there will probably not be too many more (updates).

Cheers,
Marty


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Great start on the reactor, but there is one big problem I foresee. You have the co2 down stream from the return to the tank on a horizontal plane. What's going to happen is the tiny bubbles are going to collect along the top....reforming to bigger bubbles, thus reducing the diffusion.

These bigger bubbles will then hit the transitional lip between the pvc and the tube adaptor. This will create a big Co2 bubble/void. You might get a little mist from the return lily, but its going to be mostly big burping bubbles. 

You can check out my journal to see how I did mine. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/44493-ada-mini-s-black-rock-lesson.html
The reactor/heater picture is a top down view. So the diffuser is located slightly in front of and under the return tube. Kinks are kept to a minimum to reduce the reformation of large bubbles.

P.s. the DIY heater link has a way to get the perfect water tight adapter.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

The other question I have is that you have spent a bunch on a great tank and you are working on a well planned set up. Why not go with a pressurized system? You are going to have a better chance of keeping your well thought out tank algae free that way. Just my 2 cents. Keep up the good work


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

I thought the CO2 input placement might be a problem, so I suppose it is a good thing I'm going to get a different stand to put this tank on (which requires an equipment redesign). I am pretty much using your threads as a guide to this tank, so thank you for chiming in here before I made any mistakes. As for going pressurized, that also might be something I'd incorporate in the redesign.

The stand I'm using now does not have a lot of room for anything (as visible in the sketches), so I originally did not think it was viable. This new stand, which I haven't found or built yet, will probably have an upper shelf for the heater/filter manifold, and plenty of room below for a bucket of water and a CO2 tank. Again, this will all be taking shape slowly, as I am in no rush to start this tank. (And it seems the longer I wait, the more problems are caught and solved, and the better this tank will turn out?)

Cheers for the help,
Marty


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

If you don't have enough space, then buy a Paintball tank. The largest is only 20oz and should be small enough. Mine is even smaller than a 2 liter bottle. Just get your regular CO2 regulator (CGA320 fitting) then buy a On/Off Adapter for CO2 painball tanks, and it'll adapt your regulator to fit the CO2 paintball tank.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

Fish'InMN said:


> I thought the CO2 input placement might be a problem, so I suppose it is a good thing I'm going to get a different stand to put this tank on (which requires an equipment redesign). I am pretty much using your threads as a guide to this tank, so thank you for chiming in here before I made any mistakes.



Wow, thank you for the props. Mine system is FAR from perfect though. If I had the room I would have gone vertical with a reactor. The way I have it burns a tad bit more Co2. Unfortunetly the tank sits on an open base table, so keeping everything low and out of sight was pretty important.

You are absolutely right about catching problems early. This work is going to pay dividends in the end. I'm still amazed at your patience. I would have had water in that thing already. lol

Oh yeah, and I just redid my tank. I transfered a small amout of powersand to the back to seed it, but I mostly left it out this time around. It's going to make replants 10000000000 times easier. 

If you use it throw it in the back 1/2 of the tank where the slopes/substrates deep.

If I had to get a pressurized system again, I would have probly gone with the Red Sea Co2 for size containment. The ADA tanks last me about 1.5 months.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Good points on both posts!

I was thinking about mounting my reactor/heater to the side (hidden from view) of the new stand in a vertical position. This would allow easy draining for cleaning and what not, and would keep the heater fully submersed in case of a problem. I was thinking of a sideways T setup similar to yours (*Yzmxer99*); water input on bottom (T'd) with heater, CO2 input on side T (diffuser close to central column), water output on top (straight up). _I am a bit worried that the ZooMed won't be able to push enough water through that, or any, PVC chamber, but I intend to do some tests before setting it all up. See EDIT for details._

As for the pressurized or DIY, I've been doing my research all the while and think that a full-size regulator will be the best investment. What kind of tank I decide to hook it up to is another question, but as *sandiegoryu *pointed out, I can hook up either a paintball tank or a 5-20lb tank with only a fitting or two switched. Either way, if (when  ) I decide to move up to a larger tank, I can continue to use the same regulator and just purcahse a larger tank.

Cheers,
Marty

PS. Patience is only a virtue of mine right now because I want to get this absolutely perfect (equipment-wise) before starting. I have had quite a few tanks in the past (and present!) that started off with insufficient *something* and I had to go through the hassle of replacing or repairing it. We'll see how long that lasts, haha!

*EDIT*: Well, I ran some flow rate tests on the ZooMed last night and this morning, and boy am I disappointed! For an advertised flow rate of 85gph, I am getting abysmal results! At 2 _inches_ of head, it took nearly 28 seconds to fill a 1 liter graduated cylinder, which works out to roughly 34gph. At 10 inches of head (about half of what the stock tubes can reach), it took 42 seconds to fill 1L, which is about 23gph. I always assumed the advertised flow rates were inflated, but this is ridiculous. Anyone have a small Eheim I can buy? :icon_roll


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

did some quick calcs on my system. I got about 20 inches of vertical head pressure. My eheim ecco 2232 is choked up to a point where surface ripples are fairly low. I just measured the flow rate at a rough estimate of 50gph. 


Hope that helps


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Yeah, I sort of neglected the head pressure added by the PVC manifold and extra tube/pipe lengths. Of course, I assumed the advertised flow rate would be _moderately_ close to the actual flow rate, which would then be reduced to an acceptable level by the PVC jumble... :icon_roll I'm now looking into a small Eheim (old 2211-2213, Ecco) or Filstar (XP1), preferably used to lessen the blow. The ZooMed appears to be destined for use on my sister's 10 gallon betta tank, where it should work quite well.

I will probably place an order for a full CO2 regulator kit some time this week and, assuming I find an Eheim or Filstar, can begin building the PVC heater/reactor and hooking up my hoses for a test run. Gonna take perfection for me to throw the substrate and wood in!

Thanks for all the help so far folks!

Cheers,
Marty


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## estill (Jan 25, 2007)

If you don't mind me asking I have a couple of questions about your setup. I am working on something very similar. I have built a 12" cube tank out of acrylic. My plan is to drill holes in the bottom and run my filter intake/output through fitting in the bottom of the tank, and hopefuly hidden by the hardscape. To hide everything I will build a stand with the cabinet houseing the filter, inline heater, ballast, etc. along side of the tank. This is for my cubicle at work, and I don't have the option of hiding everything under the desk.

So now for my questions. First, what Heyco water-tight cord grip did you order? Second, Do you think there would be enough flow through the ZooMed 501 and your filter housing if they were sitting along side of the tank? In other words how is the flow at 0 head hight?


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Questions are no problem at all, I still have plenty of them myself!

The Heyco cord-grip (Heyco Product #8437) is the only thing I am waiting for at the moment, as I'm not sure my order even went through... *Yzmxer99*, is there a confirmation page after hitting "Submit Request" or does it simply reload the page? Might have made one of my bumbling mistakes and not filled in a blank... As I mentioned earlier, I'm using Snazzy's "DIY External Heater" thread as well as Yzmxer99's "Black Rock Mini-S" thread as a basis for my heater/reactor manifold. 

The test I performed with the ZM at 2" of head (output 2" above filter body) was my test for a next-to-tank position. In reality the pipe would be 2-4" higher on my tank and 4-6" more on yours, for a total of 10 to 14 inches; this may or _may not_ change the flow rate, but as you can see, it is already quite low. However, I have left the filter running since conducting that first test (input & output in bowl of water next to filter) so I can do another test this weekend to see if there is any improvement. If there is significant improvement (like ~45gph at full pipe extension/max head), then I might consider using it. Otherwise, it will be donated to my sister and I'll buy an Eheim or something.

Cheers,
Marty


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## estill (Jan 25, 2007)

Thank you for the information. I've been through the DIY External Heater thread, and was just curious what fittings other people were using for something this small. Right now the only pieces I have are the tank (though I'm still polishing the cut edges), the ZooMed, a handful of PVC pipe fittings, and a pile of wood.

Today is my first reading of the Black Rock thread, and it truely is a beautiful tank. My inspiraton came from a thread here a while back where someone drilled out a vase, and made a base from a hollowed out log. The log contained a small fountain pump, and was a functional sump.

The only unique idea I do have for my project is to tap the intake line of the filter to a ball valve and barb fitting for a hose. This way water changes can be done by just opening the valve and draining some water into a pitcher.


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

If I recall correctly the heyco did the same thing to me with no conf page. I just hit submit. 

As for the black rock tank, you guys are to kind. I do love that tank, but it's changed a bit now. The big rock made it to hard to clean the glass. Keep up the hard work guys. I'll try to be as helpful as possible.

Don't expect the co2 diffusor method to be a miracle worker. Like I said, I get a little blow off/ lower efficiency with it. But I have to have it that way to keep it low profile and out of sight. The misting works pretty good, with little bubbles shooting about. Every 2 or 3 seconds a big one will burp, but oh well. I have gotten it down to 50 ppm (ph/kh method) at a little over 2 bps though. So it can perform.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

Alright, another lame update. Just ordered an Eheim 2213, among other things, which should be here by the end of the week or early next week. I'm still waiting on that Heyco cord grip, so the heater/reactor has not been completed. My current dilemma is how I want to arrange the driftwood.

Although Jeff at ADGshop did pick out a few pieces for me, one is probably too large for me to use and one is not very aesthetically appealing (wasn't all the way "blackened" by their process, kind of an odd shape). I've used the large piece in all of my attempts so far, but it will probably have to be left out as it is just too "strong". So, with that being said, here are four arrangements (without substrate obviously) that I can come up with.

Number 1, Number 2, Number 3, Number 4

Opinions? Any help is great, I'm leaning towards number 1 or 4.

Marty


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## Finch_man (Mar 21, 2006)

I think you should lose the driftwood, the second picture looks all right though. They kinda look to big.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

I always think that using substrate to figure out a hardscape is really important. And you can bury parts of the wood so you'll have many more possible hardscapes. I'm not liking any of those hardscapes. but if I HAD to choose, I would pick number 1.

Sorry to hear about the bad wood. The ones that "work" don't seem too good either... Gives me a second thought about ordering wood from them.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

sandiegoryu said:


> I'm not liking any of those hardscapes... Gives me a second thought about ordering wood from them.


Exactly my sentiments, thank you folks...


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## Haeun (Mar 9, 2007)

Not just wood... Stone choices from them were not exactly swell.

My decision from now on is just not to trust anyone else with hardscape purchases.

Anyways, like Sandiegoryu said, if a choice must be made, I'd go with 1. I think I've seen a scape done like that though.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Just FYI, I tried to use the Eheim 2213 with my Mini M and found that the intake pipe was so long, it was the same length as the height of my tank, and reached into the Aquasoil. Because of this, I'm stuck using my Red Sea nano filter which does an okay, but not great job.



Fish'InMN said:


> Alright, another lame update. Just ordered an Eheim 2213, among other things, which should be here by the end of the week or early next week.


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## Fish'InMN (Apr 23, 2006)

volatile said:


> Just FYI, I tried to use the Eheim 2213 with my Mini M and found that the intake pipe was so long, it was the same length as the height of my tank, and reached into the Aquasoil. Because of this, I'm stuck using my Red Sea nano filter which does an okay, but not great job.


Hadn't planned on mentioning this until I finished the project, but I've got some acrylic pipe at hand that I'm going to try to bend for an inflow and outflow pipe. If that doesn't work, I have no problem hacking up the Eheim stuff to fit the tank. But this is all weeks away, as I am fairly busy with work and other mid-summer activities...


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## Yzmxer99 (Aug 7, 2006)

volatile said:


> Just FYI, I tried to use the Eheim 2213 with my Mini M and found that the intake pipe was so long, it was the same length as the height of my tank, and reached into the Aquasoil. Because of this, I'm stuck using my Red Sea nano filter which does an okay, but not great job.


On the ecco 2232 pipes, they were "adjustable" by that I mean I took off the intake grate and hack-sawed it shorter.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Good idea. I should have thought of that before returning my Eheim 2213. I'm eager to see your acrylic pipes Fish'InMN. 

About the driftwood, maybe you could go with some manzanita instead and see if you can return the wood from adgshop? A lot of members seem to really like the manzanita.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/36681-75-gallon-perfecto-gallery-56k-warning.html

http://www.manzanita.com/index.htm


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## MyMonkey (Jul 17, 2007)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Not necessarily.... If you were to purchase healthy plants, plant them, set up adequate lighting, and co2 right off the bat, wait 2-3 weeks and then start adding fish, starting with otos, you should be fine as far as biofiltration goes. Although I don't anticipate you would have problems, just to be sure, I would recommend testing the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates before you put the oto fish in. Many aquarium shops will test water for free.
> 
> Here are a couple of excellent articles that list step by step how you could setup a planted tank this way without any cycling problems.
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm
> ...



Excellent information. Thanks.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

any updates Fish'InMN?


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