# Cycling with Dry Start



## ldk59 (Jan 30, 2009)

Use the "search" feature available here

this topic has been covered many times...

Many of us have used this method with great success..


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## farmhand (Jun 25, 2009)

ldk59 said:


> Use the "search" feature available here
> 
> this topic has been covered many times...
> 
> Many of us have used this method with great success..


Yes I am aware that cycling has been asked about and covered until everyone is blue in the face.:wink: I do not believe I have seen this specific question. 
Will a tank cycle without adding fish or adding ammonia given enough time through a natural process?


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

From my understanding, to cycle the tank, there has to be a source of food to sustain a population of live bacteria. If the substrate contains that food: i.e ADA Aquasoil which leaches ammonia intially, than yes it will sustain a population of good bacteria and will cycle. Even then, this will wane in time and the population of bacteria will die off if not fed - via fish waste etc. But if your substrate does not have a lot of organic content to contribute to the nitrogen cycle i.e gravel for eg, then you will not be able to cycle the tank effectively without adding either ammonia or a couple of fish to start the process. How much food source to fuel the nitrogen cycle is contained in your soil you wish to use is bound to differ from batch to batch depending on the soils origins. Whether your soil contains enough to cycle the tank on it's own, i don't know.


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## bigboij (Jul 24, 2009)

anytime ive done a dry start its done little to none, to expedite the speed of the cycle once i fill it up.

imho it does nothing but give your plants a chance too root in. and establish a bit beyond that not much more


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## farmhand (Jun 25, 2009)

Thanks everyone. Your answers make a lot of sense.


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## ldk59 (Jan 30, 2009)

farmhand said:


> Yes I am aware that cycling has been asked about and covered until everyone is blue in the face.:wink: I do not believe I have seen this specific question.
> Will a tank cycle without adding fish or adding ammonia given enough time through a natural process?


That question has been discussed in many of those threads... Different members have reported different results. *In my personal opinion* the duration of the "dry" period has an effect on the total cycle time.

*In my experience* the cycle is significantly shorter after a dry start (I was able to put shrimp in my Mini-M with ADA Aquasoil one week after filling), I've also found the algae cycle to be less troublesome after a dry start... 

HTH

Larry


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## farmhand (Jun 25, 2009)

Thanks Larry


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Since it's soil or ADA AS, there's NH4 already in there.
So there's no cycle because 4-8 weeks later, the bacteria is already well established.

Once you fill it, it's like doing the fish less cycling for the last 4-8 weeks.

so the bacteria are well established.........not that it matters, since plants remove the N directly, as long as it's not too high from the initial phase using soil/ADA, you should not measure any.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> Since it's soil or ADA AS, there's NH4 already in there.
> So there's no cycle because 4-8 weeks later, the bacteria is already well established.
> 
> Once you fill it, it's like doing the fish less cycling for the last 4-8 weeks.
> ...


Hey Tom,

I have a question. Everywhere I've read about fishless cycling states that the bacteria need oxygen to survive, reproduce, and establish themselves. In a drystart, how is this oxygen being provided since there are no filters or agitation of the water? Or do the bacteria in a drystart not require oxygen?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

volatile said:


> Hey Tom,
> 
> I have a question. Everywhere I've read about fishless cycling states that the bacteria need oxygen to survive, reproduce, and establish themselves. In a drystart, how is this oxygen being provided since there are no filters or agitation of the water? Or do the bacteria in a drystart not require oxygen?


Roots and diffusion.

For O2 to be gone/removed, the sediment to even become anoxic, anaerobic etc, you MUST have bacteria already established. Bacteria ARE what removes the O2, not plant roots(they pipe O2 from above, then floods sediments, there is a mountain/plenty of evidence of this), not simply a barrier, you have to have something to consume the O2. 100cm deep plain sand layer has the same O2 at the top as it does at bottom.
If you add organic matter, then bacteria, over time, will deplete to the O2, if it cannot be resupplied, then the O2 concentrations decline.

So careful not to put the cart before the horse:wink:

Anyway, if you wanted to say cycle the filter as well, not just the sediment, you could easily do this with a bucket, run the filter in there, add the NH3, say 1 Tablespoon and do it once a week for 4 weeks, that should be plenty. Then you dump the water later, no testing needed, no entire aquarium used to merely cycle a little filter.
Then fill the tank etc. The sediment is cycled, and established with a network of O2 pipes, called Roots........to support far larger populations, plants are loaded with bacteria, and they remove the NH4 directly, so you do not even need to bother with cycling the filter.

See silent cycle, this answers most of the questions regarding this part, roots/and establishment answers the other.
This is also why there's no need for heater cables or UGF's.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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