# Marsilea Minuta ID needed



## jeepn4x4 (Jan 27, 2008)

The picture on the right looks exactly like my Marsilea Minuta. The one on the left looks to be the same some of my new sprouts coming up.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

The stuff on the left the leaves never gets any bigger than you see it...according to this other guy.

Is there a chance he has poor light or no fert or something that causes stunted MM?


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## idontknow (May 9, 2008)

My Marsilea is all different sizes. Some have large lobes others have smaller lobes. You may also get some with multiple lobes. When my tank was low light no pressurized co2 the lobes were pretty small.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Okay, so I'm thinking that smoke was being blown up my skirt and it's all MM. giggle.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

It looks like you could have both Marselia Minuta and Marselia Quadrafolia. The plant in the back looks like MM and the one on the right looks like MQ. I have both and there is a noticeable difference when they are in lower light tanks.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

The only way you can tell for sure what they are - apart from getting them directly from a very reliable source - is to grow them emersed to obtain sporocarps (the reproductive structures), which are slightly different shapes and sizes in different species. Anything else is an educated guess. 

The minuta can get larger under certain conditions.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Hmmmmmmm...that whole getting sporocarps seems like way too much work! Giggle. I guess I'll just have to be happy with what I've got!


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

That'll work.  

It's not as hard as you think though, should you ever feel inclined.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

They are both quite lovely. I like them both.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks! I hope the small stuff stays small, I like having the two looks!


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## marrow (Feb 4, 2007)

The small stuff will stay small as I told you when I gave it to you. I have grown the variety I gave you as well as M. quadrifolia. Both were grown in high light, EI dosed tanks with compressed CO2. I have grown both types in tanks that were allowed to gradually dry out and the difference in size is noticeable even when the growth shifts. I purchased the M. Minuta from Ghanzafar Ghori who is active on APC. Perhaps you could reveal the source of your "minuta" and post comparison pictures on that forum. You may lure him out.


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

I just wanted to chime in here as I was the one that gave Phoenix-cry the MM. I was just questioned about the same thing. I was told that this was MM a while back maybe 6months or so and I had never even heard of the Quad back then. I have read the profiles on both and I dont know what the difference is. Both profiles say it is like Glosso, which I also have, but darker green and can grow in lower light. 

Here is the thread I posted. I will also post on APC and see what comes up. I dont want to deceive anyone with what I have. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/81272-marsilea-quadrafolia-vs-marsilea-minuta.html


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

rekles75 said:


> I just wanted to chime in here as I was the one that gave Phoenix-cry the MM. I was just questioned about the same thing. I was told that this was MM a while back maybe 6months or so and I had never even heard of the Quad back then. I have read the profiles on both and I dont know what the difference is. Both profiles say it is like Glosso, which I also have, but darker green and can grow in lower light.
> 
> Here is the thread I posted. I will also post on APC and see what comes up. I dont want to deceive anyone with what I have.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/81272-marsilea-quadrafolia-vs-marsilea-minuta.html


It may not be MM, but let me tell you, this plant you have is great! I haven't had any trouble with it and the MM/MQ grows beautifully.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

Marselia Hirsuta is the species on the right, which can grow either 1,2,or 3 lobed leaves. I suspect this is what you have, I grew it for a good long time myself. In direct light, most leaves will just have one lobe. In shadows, you'll see some with 2 or 3. Neat plant either way. 

I'm interested to see if the section on the left ends up growing just like the one on the right. My guess is to say that it will.


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## marrow (Feb 4, 2007)

Yes, you are correct Marsilea sp. in general make lovely foregrounds and grow reasonably fast. They do not need high light or Co2. M. Minuta is noticeably smaller then M. quadrifolia and in my experience grows a little slower. They are considered to be invasive plants in some states. They are often referred to commonly as aquatic four leaf clover and dwarf four leaf clover. There are scads of Marsilea species that look very similar. They are well distributed around the globe. M. Quadrifolia is used in Ayurvedic Medicine (to induce sleep) and extracts have demonstrated some hypotensive properties. Last springtime here in Minnesota, M. Quadrifolia was being sold at Lowes as a pond plant. (I meant no disrespect to rekles75 in questioning the id of her Marsilea sp.) Unless you are absolutely sure of the I.D. of a plant you are giving away or selling then it may be good practice to identify it as Marsilea Sp. for example rather them as M. Minuta. I know these plants are difficult to identify but keys are available to aid identification in the botanical literature if not in the planted tank forums.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

eyebeatbadgers said:


> Marselia Hirsuta is the species on the right, which can grow either 1,2,or 3 lobed leaves. I suspect this is what you have, I grew it for a good long time myself. In direct light, most leaves will just have one lobe. In shadows, you'll see some with 2 or 3. Neat plant either way.
> 
> I'm interested to see if the section on the left ends up growing just like the one on the right. My guess is to say that it will.


What if it grows four lobes? I bought this plant and I have many of them to have four lobes (exactly like an underwater four leaf clover).


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

In my tank, I only saw a few leaves that had 2 or 3 lobes. I guess it is possible that some may have had 4, but in a high light tank, the plant usually exhibits just one lobe.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

This is in a lower light tank. I actually wanted the four leaf clovers, so I'm happy. Thanks.


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

marrow said:


> (I meant no disrespect to rekles75 in questioning the id of her Marsilea sp.) Unless you are absolutely sure of the I.D. of a plant you are giving away or selling then it may be good practice to identify it as Marsilea Sp. for example rather them as M. Minuta. I know these plants are difficult to identify but keys are available to aid identification in the botanical literature if not in the planted tank forums.


First I am a male not a female. 

I have looked into id'ing this Plant mostly today, because it was sold to me as MM, therefore I had no reason to think otherwise. But everything that I see in the plant profile here as well as on other sites leads me to beleive that this is MM. The one factor that gets me to think so is that MM details say that it is closely like glosso and glosso has just about the same size node as what I have. I have glosso also. 

I respect your opinion and comment on everything except for this point .... Why would I call this Marsilea Sp. If I thought it was MM, you pretty much have to have a botanical degree to know the slight differences in the various species of plants. Its like you are suggesting that I delibretly tried to decieve someone. Plus I see alot that sometimes the names of plants change all the time. Also what literature are you looking at to come up with your theory, I may be looking in the wrong place.


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

I have reread what I wrote and *marrow* I hope you didnt think I was coming off rude. That was not my intention, if so I apoligize. I am only saying that we all come here to learn and if I am misrepresenting my plants show me where you saw it at so that I can correct my post. If I just take your word for it, I am doing nothing different than what I did with the person who sold it to me in the beginning.


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## marrow (Feb 4, 2007)

No hard feelings here Rekles. First your gender, I have no way of determining your gender, so I used her instead of he. I meant no offense. 

Second, I am not suggesting you intentionally misrepresented anything. I am sure you were going by what you had been told when you aquired the plant. 

I was suggesting that in the future if there is a plant that you are have not positively id'ed then you could simply list it in a more general fashion. This would convey the information the person who aquires it from you needs, without propagating errors. You could even say that it looks like M. Minuta but that you were not sure. 
I admit that this is a conservative cautious approach but it also protects the seller or giver from being proved wrong in the future. People often have an initial tendency to get defensive when provided with conflicting information. I am quite sure I have that tendency. 

But back to the id of this plant. If you google "Marsilea minuta vs. Marsilea Quadrifolia" you will get scores of identifying information. 
Better then that if you pm. me your address I will send you some M. Minuta and you can compare them, grow them out etc. I will even pay for shipping.

Remember just about all marsilea pretty much looks like glosso when aquatic. Unfortunately this means that " looks like glosso' is a useful for identifying something as Marsilea, but has little value in identifying a particular marsilea as minuta, quadrifolia, drummondii, hirsuta etc. However is the smallest one is minuta, hence the name. 

So pm with where to send the minuta to and I will get it off to you with a heat pack by the end of next week. cheers.


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## rekles75 (Feb 25, 2008)

This is an acceptable explanation Marrow. My only thing is that I thought the plant had been positively ID'd. I am glad this has been cleared up. My apologies to Phoenix-cry for the thread jack .


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