# Kittys Low-tech/Budget 20G



## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

note: wasnt sure where to post this thread :/

My plans in short: To have a low-tech, Low-budget, and possibly low-light planted tank for breeding Shrimps

Birth of tank: Dec 10, 2009
About Tank: Aqueon Deluxe 20G KIT: 24lx13wx17h (weird)
Bought it for 70$ on sale at petco.
Substrate: 1 20lb Bag of Eco-Complete Black. I actually DID NOT rinse this out, it didnt cloud at all...


UPGRADES:
Filter:AC30 HOB
Lights:Coralife Dual Bulb 28w T5
Ferts:
***As per Tom’s recommendations, dose the following once a week or once in two weeks for a 20 gallon tank. If you have a different sized tank, calculate the required fert dose accordingly.
1/4 Teaspoon of Seachem Equilibrium (for traces and Calcium + Magnesium). (1.42 ppm Ca, 0.42 ppm Mg, 3.43 ppm K and 0.02 ppm Fe)
1/8 Teaspoon of KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) (5.27 ppm NO3 and 3.32 ppm K)
1/32 Teaspoon of KH2PO4 (Potassium Mono Phosphate) (1.61 ppm PO4 and 0.66 ppm K)

About me: Been in the aquarium hobby since I was 12, established my first 75G saltwater predator tank at the age of 13 as well as started working in the aquarium buisness and studying strict ichtheology hardcore until I discovered boys at the age of 16. Took down my 75, 90, 125, and 500G's, sold a few, kept a few, and moved out at the age of 17 to try and "make it in the city" then I joined the army. Alas, that didnt work and I came back broke and bored LOL! So Now Im 22, goin on 23 in March and am lookin to slowly get back into the hobby now that I've been laid off for a year I need somthing that I can enjoy doing and maybe make a lil money, but thats not the main reason. I wish to slowly (and cheaply) build my collection back up.

and anything else I might have forgotten...
NOW! PICTURE TIME!
***article can be found here: http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/planted-aquarium/low-tech-planted-tank-guide/#dosingfertilizer


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Placement:









Substrate:









Ugly Filterpad and Jaeden the Sphynx cat.









Filled and "planted"









Close up of Undentified mossball:









Another Full up pic:









Jaeden distracting me


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

Looks like a good start so far. The unidentified moss looks to be regular ole java moss.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Moody636 said:


> Looks like a good start so far. The unidentified moss looks to be regular ole java moss.


 
/wipes forehead

I was hoping! lol! Would it be better attached to somthing or will it be okay like that?

edit: and bwaah I forgot to ask, should I go ahead and use the filterpad? It has charcoal in it >_>


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

It looks like it is already attached to some cork or something, so it's fine. Either way, java moss does well. I'd leave the charcoal out since it will absorb anything you are dosing the tank with.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

There is contraversy on the effects of AC, but I use it and it is fine. It all depeneds on your prefences. Good Luck!


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

Make sure that when you buy your new light you also grab some fast-growing stem plants to help avoid an algae outbreak. Good luck and have fun with it!

P.S. your cat is scary-looking...


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Moody636 said:


> Make sure that when you buy your new light you also grab some fast-growing stem plants to help avoid an algae outbreak. Good luck and have fun with it!
> 
> P.S. your cat is scary-looking...


LOL! Shes a monster in a 5lb body, but thats another story! 

Mom just came in the room and said she was glad to see me getting back into the hobby considering after the army i was kinda FUBAR with life. So knowing it is kinda like a "zen garden" thing to me, She expressed interest in giving me some money for xmas to put towards it. Hopefully whatever she gives me can get me a new light strip, my dry ferts, some "shop n swap" plants, and MAYBE have some left over for some oto's. I just wonder if the moss will last long enough till say Dec 26th in a bare bones as-is setup. 

I really like the look of nanas, Hygrophila difformis(wisteria?), java fern, **HM, anubias, Ludwigia glandulosa, sunset hygro, and a couple of others I forgot about lol. If you have any of those in a week or two lemme know! ^_^ 

I was actually wondering, could the moss be established as a carpet? Has anyone tried it? (Im sure someone has)

**I do not know the full name, I just like the plant people all over identify as HM lol!


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

Yes, java moss can be used as a carpet-type plant. All you have to do is tie the moss to some flat stones. I used some plastic netting-type material to secure mine. Here's a shot of my tank with the moss carpet on the right side.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Moody636 said:


> Yes, java moss can be used as a carpet-type plant. All you have to do is tie the moss to some flat stones. I used some plastic netting-type material to secure mine. Here's a shot of my tank with the moss carpet on the right side.


Oh i love your tank, do you have a journal of it? lol. (Im having a manic-phase as of the last 2 weeks LOL)


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

Nope, no journal. This is my first attempt at a planted tank and I just kind of dove into it headfirst. Everything you see was bought for under 50 dollars, or found in a local lake. Plants include Java fern, java moss, x-mas moss, and some newly planted Elatine triandra. I found the Juncus repens while walking my dog along with the unidentified long sword-looking plant in the middle and the stems pearling in the back left.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Moody636 said:


> Nope, no journal. This is my first attempt at a planted tank and I just kind of dove into it headfirst. Everything you see was bought for under 50 dollars, or found in a local lake. Plants include Java fern, java moss, x-mas moss, and some newly planted Elatine triandra. I found the Juncus repens while walking my dog along with the unidentified long sword-looking plant in the middle and the stems pearling in the back left.


Id love to be able to snag some local wildlife plants....but in baytown....i just dont trust the water 0_o

Do you know of any easily attainable stems i could grab a ton of? I wouldnt mind ordering them, I just dont know much of the companies have good reps in 6/7 years of me bein gone lol.


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

I'd suggest using the forum's Swap n Shop section. As for the type, I'm still a beginner myself so maybe someone else can point you in the right direction.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Some stems you might try include most of the Hygrophilas, Rotala indica/rotifundia, Bacopas, Hydrocoytle/Pennywort, Najas sp, Ludwigia repens... look for a S&S thread where someone's doing a trim on their low tech tank. You'll just about always get a better deal/more/better condition plants from a hobbyist than anywhere else.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> Some stems you might try include most of the Hygrophilas, Rotala indica/rotifundia, Bacopas, Hydrocoytle/Pennywort, Najas sp, Ludwigia repens... look for a S&S thread where someone's doing a trim on their low tech tank. You'll just about always get a better deal/more/better condition plants from a hobbyist than anywhere else.


Was hoping to see some around/after xmas, as Im gettin some play money from the 'rents. :hihi: !!!

I dont know if anyone noticed in my long-winded posts, but Does anyone know if my moss will be okay as-is, no ferts, just the T8 bulb that came with the kit and heater until I can mass-buy more plants? Should I cut the light off to reduce algea? I obviously dont have any now, but Im trying to prepare. Just the moss ball and a female betta is in the tank, so Im not sure how fast algea would propogate with that light. Its seriously been too long, and too many pill bottles later for me to remember this :icon_frow Amazing how meds alter your memory/thinking >_>


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Your moss should be fine with your current lighting. Mosses as a whole are pretty hardy and not very light-demanding.

If you end up with some algae, just cut your photoperiod back. The moss should still be fine.

You might separate out that ball just a bit so that the strands in the middle can get some light, too- otherwise those might die off.


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## HoustonFishFanatic (Apr 13, 2007)

Kittysnax said:


> Id love to be able to snag some local wildlife plants....but in baytown....i just dont trust the water 0_o


Lots of plants can be collected around H-town and Baytown. Ludwigia, Bacopa, Limnophila ( introduced), Hydrocotyle, Fissiden moss, Eleocharis ( Hair grass), Polygonum, Vallisneria, Sagittaria and Nymphae are just a few species to mention. If you go further east into the Chambers county towards Anahuac I am sure you will find a few. Here is a thread about collection trip in Houston.
Collection Trip
First part was around IAH and second stop was in Baytown.

Bhushan


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

thanks a ton laura and houston! 

Im glad I picked somthing hardy. Fertz, filter, and lightstrip are on order today. Light is from amazon, Ill post specs later. Filter is a AC 30/150. and fertz are the dry kno3, and kh2po4. That leaves me with 15$ left over after all is said and done. (She doesnt count shipping in my 100$ budget. I <3 mom lol!)

I know it is mid December, but i might go trumpin through some marsh today...alone...cause my husband hates me LOL. I figured I'd go see what I could find........

I found a few places on ebay that ships free stuff. (Only reason EBAY is because my mom is payin fer it all and she isnt computer saavy enough for me to explain paypal and all that /facepalm)


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

*Update!*

UPDATE!

So my mom gave me 100$ to use towards my tank as an xmas gift! Since majaority of everything I got online, she decided to pay for it now so there would be a possibility I could have it before xmas. She is paying for shipping, and not including it from my 100$ gift.

Stop #1: Lighting
I decided to go with a CoralLife 24" Double T-5 Strip W/14W Colormax & 6700K Plant Bulb - 40$ (50$ shipped) Amazon.com

Stop #2: Filtration
I was going to go with an Aquaclear50, but decided to go with the Aquaclear 30 since I have a powerhead in the shed I will use if needed. - 30$ +free shipping, NEW from Ebay.com

Stop #3: Fertz
I looked around at a couple of sites at dry ferts and decided to go with Aquariumfertilizer.com for my kno3 and kh2po4. -8$ (14$ shipped)

That Leaves me with 22$ leftover. I was stupid and just realized I thought I only had 16, but mom was payin shipping, so I had 22. Im not gonna press her for a couple of bucks.

Stop #4: Petco 
I figured I'd spend the last 16$ locally and since we were passin a petco on the way home from Spec's. I decided to pick up some plants and 2 O-Cats. The guy up there was flirtin with me (really obviously LOL) and gave me a plant for free ;3. So I got 3 of the "green ones" for the price of 2, a purple one, and the 2 O-cats. I also got some pond snails from him so I was happy lol.
3 "loose plants" - 2.99/ea
2 o-cats - 1.89/ea (I think, mom trashed the reciept)

So:
Light:40$
Filter:30$
Fertz:8$
Petco:13$ (I rounded up)
--
Total: 91$

NOW...PICTURE TIME!


I thought it looked like java ferns....or crypts I have no idea. One has plantlets growing from the tips of the leaves...should I plant the "big" ones in the ground?









Un-named plant #2:









Green plant with some purple/red thing, also unlabeled. I really hope it is aquatic, as it looked aquatic. They are sellin those damn white and green stiped plants that I know arent aquatic thoguh >_>









Moss Ball with female betta:









Oh and The o-cats went into my 5 gallon since I realized it had some brown algea growin in it. (No live plants though) I plan to move them over to this tank when it gets safer for more fish, and they have something to nibble on though.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Plants #1 and #2 are java fern, so good buys. And you don't want to plant them in the substrate, they need their rhizomes exposed (that's the green "stem" the leaves grow out of). They'd do best tied onto a rock or driftwood.

The purple/green plant I've no idea what is but unfortunately I'm pretty sure it's not aquatic. I can't think of any aquatic plants with that shape and color, and that purple is pretty memorable.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

well sweet on the ferns, I liked the pics I'd seen online, Bleh on the purple one, I think I might have gotten it mixed up with one Id seen online as well that someone had (a real aquatic one).

Now, on the ferns, the little plantlets growing on the tips of the leaves, will those fall off and need to be re-tied or planted or whatever?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yep, eventually the plantlets will fall off. I usually just leave them till they do (or sometimes the "mother leaf" dies).


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## HoustonFishFanatic (Apr 13, 2007)

The first two plants like Laura said Java ferns. These are great for low light tanks.
The Purple Waffle Plant ( _Hemegraphis exotic_)is a non aquatic. Plant it in a pot and put it on your windowsill.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Im guessing the ferns are....mid ground plants? Would anacharis do okay as stems in the back? Only thing I ever used those for are food for other fish to pick at, never planted.

edit: Houston, 
WHERE did you find those rocks for "mountains of the monsoon"??? What kind are they I must have some! ^_^
edit 2: observance IS key....i answered my own question lol!

Also, I'd love to get into the Planted tank community locally, so if you know any clubs or whatnot that are open to n00bs lemme know I'd love to attend when I can. Especially to learn to identify and collect local flora. ^_^


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

So i went trumpin around the backyard to try and find something to anchor those ferns to until I can find a good peice of Driftwood or slate or somthing.. All I could think of was terra-cotta peices...too slick?









I also found these rocks, and was thinking ONE would look good in my tank maybe...I think these came from Georgia years and years and years ago like...way before I was born. I dont know if they would be okay, and I cant get ahold of anything to test them out. I know they came from a river though.

















and figured I didnt include a full tank pic in my last pic post. Nothing special, just the ferns chunked into the tank LOL


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The terra cotta pieces would work well for the java ferns. You can tie them down with thread, fishing line, rubber bands, twist ties... whatever's convenient.

The rocks are probably OK, but if you've got any vinegar around, that would help rule out at least carbonate content. Don't use them if the rocks fizz when you put vinegar on them.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> The terra cotta pieces would work well for the java ferns. You can tie them down with thread, fishing line, rubber bands, twist ties... whatever's convenient.
> 
> The rocks are probably OK, but if you've got any vinegar around, that would help rule out at least carbonate content. Don't use them if the rocks fizz when you put vinegar on them.


 
ooooooooooooooookay i thought i had to use acid LOL! (duhr)


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

I let my java fern just kind of sit on the bottom for a while and now they have clung onto substrate. This way I didn't have to worry about adding anything else to the tank or tying anything together.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

I ended up tyin em, cause i dont see any driftwood in the near future. I kinda wanted them (The ferns) to be stationary LOL. I did end up taking the waffle out and arranging the three sprigs in a teeny vase until i can snag some soil for it. 

I really need a thermometer, my heater is on, but i dont think it is high enough, my water was chilly when i stuck my arm in it, not lukewarm. :/ I know the heater is on, the light comes on, but goes off so i think it might be on low. ill check later its kinda late LOL

Now I just play the waiting game...I hate standard shipping LOL.

Does anyone know if there is a bluish/black slate that is okay for tanks? I was thinking of maybe making a retaining wall in the back and planting background plants in/on it.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Most slate is OK for tanks.

It may leech, but not so fast that water changes shouldn't keep the parameters stable.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

sweet thanks, we have alot of quarry/landscape/building-stone-sellers here. Might have to go diggin through some pallets one day soon! ;3

edit: I just did a test-strip and my nitrates have gone from 0 -.5ppm in a day. Should I be worried? I need to break down and get a master-kit to test everything ammonia included, but until next friday, im stuck with strips >.<


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

*Cut it up, leave it be, or sell it?*

So I have had this peice of driftwood (Unsure of type) sittin outside since I last got out of the hobby (6/7 years ago). It seems pretty healthy and once I scrape and brush all the dirt and grass off seems like it would go back into a aquarium. I had it in a 180G at the time, but it obviously wont fit into my 20G now. 

So you think maybe it would look alright if I cut it up into smaller pieces and fixed them so that they still looked "natural"? I think I could get 1 vertical piece and maybe 2-3 Horizontal out of it if I cut right. I obviously wouldnt put them all in the tank, but I figured I could get a few pieces...










UPDATE: Yea....i was hackin into it and its Cedar.....amazed my old fish survived with it in there >_> Go me, I fail. On a side note, I removed the knotty, vertical piece and it looks nice...:<


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## HoustonFishFanatic (Apr 13, 2007)

Kittysnax said:


> Im guessing the ferns are....mid ground plants? Would anacharis do okay as stems in the back? Only thing I ever used those for are food for other fish to pick at, never planted.
> 
> edit: Houston,
> WHERE did you find those rocks for "mountains of the monsoon"??? What kind are they I must have some! ^_^
> ...


Yes Java fern could be used as a midground plant.
The stones I used in my old scape were bought from a rockyard on the way to San Marcos. The rockyard guy called it Iron Rock.
For clubs you could check out GHAC on the Houston Fish box. They are more Cichlid oriented. For planted tanks we have a group of few friend who meet up informally to exchange plants and do collection trip once in a while. There are quiet a few very good aquascapers from Houston.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

HoustonFishFanatic said:


> Yes Java fern could be used as a midground plant.
> The stones I used in my old scape were bought from a rockyard on the way to San Marcos. The rockyard guy called it Iron Rock.
> For clubs you could check out GHAC on the Houston Fish box. They are more Cichlid oriented. For planted tanks we have a group of few friend who meet up informally to exchange plants and do collection trip once in a while. There are quiet a few very good aquascapers from Houston.


bleh I dont think I could go back to African/Large cichlids again, they were way too easy LOL. Literally: place in tank>feed>watch>clean>repeat. LOL This is actually difficult for me because I have NO IDEA what I'm doing, and I spose I'm bein a lil obsessive LOL.

I woke up this morning and my tank appeared slightly cloudy. Most of the snails are at the top with a few at the bottom scootin around like nothin is wrong. The betta stays in her moss ball all day, swims around for a bit to inspect and I guess keep from being bored, then goes right back to hide in it. 

Im wondering if I should do a water change this early as its only been 2 days since it was set up. Or if I should put the actual Filter pad in the HOB until my new one gets here? It has charcoal in it >_> I would normally just put it in but I am not aure how to go about it with plants. I dont wanna kill anything that may be good for em. I also didnt wash the eco-complete so the "bacteria" or whatever that was in the bag stayed in it. I was clear all day yesterday so I unno. I worry too much:icon_roll


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Have checked out craigslist in your area?

Have you seen java fern on Ebay? Aquatic Majic java fern is like 2 plants. I kept bidding until I got some for $3. Shipping was free.

You could find others near you by going to members list > search members > advanced search. Perhaps some would give you some cuttings.


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## Lee (Feb 13, 2007)

go ahead and add the carbon, it will clear up the water in a few days.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

*Update*

So my fertz came in today! I was really pleased. They got here 2 days after the confirmation email!









the tank now. The romaine is in there for the ottos.









close up of the female CT betta and the ottos:









Jaeden was disturbed enough to crawl out of bed to investigate the camera flashes:


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I thought you were going to do a low tech tank and buy plants that don't need ferts since the title is Kittys Low-tech/Budget 20G. Are you changing your plans?


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

No. But if it is gonna bother people that much Ill change the title...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

For what it's worth, like JakeJ i use / have used carbon in my tanks without ill effect on the plants. I find that it helps stabilize the tank in the beginning and then after a few weeks the carbon has lost most of it's properties that would remove nutrients from your tank and just becomes another surface for beneficial bacteria to grow on :thumbsup: 

The cloudy water is likely just a bacterial bloom which is common when a tank is first set up, should resolve itself in a few days.

Also, the test strips aren't very accurate but if they are showing that you have nitrates that probably means you have a decent amount of ammonia and nitrites in there too which are really toxic to fish so I'd go ahead and do a water change since you have fish in there but no fast growing stem plants to suck up the ammonia they're creating. 

Keep an eye on the Swap 'n' Shop thread on here, a lot of times when people trim their tanks you'll see "RAOK" threads (*R*andom *A*ct *O*f *K*indness) usually they'll ship you plants for free or just the cost of shipping which is generally only a few dollars. And like LauraLee said, you're almost guaranteed to get larger portions of healthier plants for very little $ from a hobbyist (such as on here) than from anywhere else. 

If you want the java ferns in the substrate you could attach them to a very smal piece of the terracotta or even a small stone and place them on the surface, this will help keep them in place and as they grow the roots will attach to the gravel. In fact, if you use a piece of terracotta you could sort of bury that part and leave the fern near the surface, might be your best bet if DW isn't in the near future


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

thanks a ton kara! My next big purchase will be a master FW test kit, because the strips are never as accurate as I liked. I think Ill go ahead with the filterpad, even thoguh my water has stayed clear but like you said, it could help in the beginning and basically be gone by the time I change. Ill prolly do a water change later if not sooner considering I have to go into town to have surgery on my foot friday (the joys of ingrown nails) so the carbon will prolly help buffer things until I can get around to it.

1.Master FW Test Kit
2.More Plants
3.Stones/Driftwood/SOMTHING

those are my next major purchases i think LOL


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Good luck with the surgery! 

I would say you should do the water change as soon as you can manage it though because the carbon won't really take too much of the ammonia, if any, out of the system. Especially if there's been nothing in the filter for bacteria to grow on, you'll want to do that water change. And once you get the new filter, i'd stick the filter pad from this one in there for a little while to help seed it with good bacteria roud:


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Karackle said:


> Good luck with the surgery!
> 
> I would say you should do the water change as soon as you can manage it though because the carbon won't really take too much of the ammonia, if any, out of the system. Especially if there's been nothing in the filter for bacteria to grow on, you'll want to do that water change. And once you get the new filter, i'd stick the filter pad from this one in there for a little while to help seed it with good bacteria roud:


thanks! ;3. After 7 days paypal has FINALLY paid the poor guy I got the filter from on ebay so HOPEFULLY he will ship it today or tomorrow. It is a AC 30GPH if I remember right. I love AC's filter sponges and hope to get them good and "dirty" as soon as possible! LOL! I might be able to hobble over there today seeing as how the BIG vacuum/siphon/python was easily attainable from the shed. I dont think I'll even have to carry buckets of water now heh.

I have also been debating on whether or not to divide up the moss ball into more of a 'carpet-like' plant or leave it there until I get something for it to attach itself to. Ill probably wait. ;P

I have kinda been ooglin over HC (Hemianthus callitrichoides), Dwarf Sag, and Micro Swords. But I still need to do some research on them. I worry that my tank is too high, or not enough light, or blah blah. I just really would like a carpeting or turf like plant in here, but will prolly wait until I have my hardscape finished.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Kittysnax said:


> No. But if it is gonna bother people that much Ill change the title...


It is just I am searching for others that have tanks without Co2 injected. I was disappointed to see you aren't doing as you title insinuates.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ i thought low levels of light and no co2 = low tech. just because someone adds ferts doesn't mean that they have a non-low tech tank.


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

Kittysnax said:


> I have kinda been ooglin over HC (Hemianthus callitrichoides), Dwarf Sag, and Micro Swords. But I still need to do some research on them. I worry that my tank is too high, or not enough light, or blah blah. I just really would like a carpeting or turf like plant in here, but will prolly wait until I have my hardscape finished.


Don't get sucked into paralysis from analysis here, it's easy to do. I've been looking at growing a carpet-type (besides my moss) plant for a long time and finally settled trying out elantine trianda. While it hasn't taken off just yet, it has gotten some good roots and my guppies are finally leaving it alone. You might want to look into it.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

elantine trianda eh? LOL Looks like I have another to check out! thanks moody ^_^

edit: bleh, goole isnt turning anything up >.< does it have a common name perhaps?


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

Elatine triandra, sorry!


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

xP no worries


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hilde said:


> It is just I am searching for others that have tanks without Co2 injected. I was disappointed to see you aren't doing as you title insinuates.


I don't find the title misleading at all. She's not injecting CO2 so this still fits the criteria you just mentioned. And, all plants need some level of fertilization, as *OldPunk *said, just adding ferts does not make this high-tech (or as he said, non-low-tech).  I'd still call this low tech for sure roud:

*Kitty* - For low light tanks (sorry to add another thing to your list to investigate) but you might want to look into Marsilea minuta for a carpeting plant. Just an idea  I'm looking forward to seeing this tank progress!

And I have to say, that floating mossball is totally trippy :tongue:


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Well the "Surgery" went well. The whole process took 10 minutes and I think the shot to deaden the toe hurt more than anything. But the pain NOW is a million and one times worse than it was when the toe was infected and gross. I took one of my moms vicodyns and I can STILL feel it, ugh. But, I suppose things have to get worse before they get better so at least it is taken care of and wont keep hurting like it had been. Ok ok enough "blogging" LOL! :flick:

Now, I dont think Im too drugged up to do some studyin'. The husband was nice and bought the Ottos some much needed Algea wafers. I figured Id only put like 1/4th of a wafer in, so as not to foul the water. I know the lil guys are hungry, I just really hope they can find them and know what the wafers are. I suppose I'll feed before I turn off the lights.

As for the plants, Im about to start my Googlin'. The husband said it will more than likely be after the new year until we can afford to buy more plants, especially since he knows I kinda wanna buy a good bit this time.

I was also lookin around at Plecos and Corys. I have always loved those fish but never really paid much attention to the specialty dwarf-plecos. I was getting stocking ideas on the tank and so far i know i want:
1 pair of rams (GBR or Goldens)
3 ottos (I have 2 already)
x amount of rummynose tetras(they are my favorite)
1 pair of dwarf plecos (unknown species, need opinions)
3-5 cory cats. (Unknown species, probably emeralds or albinos)
and 
maybe 1-2 dwarf gouramis...i unno on that one yet
---
I would think that would be okay as far as stocking goes, I just want to have a good, heavy planted tank before adding more fish. If I added anything soon, it would be another otto just cause I have read that they prefer odd numbers. Does anyone have any good suggestions for a dwarf pleco species? It really doesnt have to be a pair, I know from experience they are a heavy load for waste...I just really would like to have a gold nugget pleco, but they get too big so I was thinking of a Clown or Bristlenose pleco. I cant think of any other dwarfs off the top of my head. :/

yea...im starting to ramble Ima go study now lol!

edit; After studing and surfin I have found out that I am in love with rotala rotundifolia. I also think Id like to have some yellow shrimp, snowball shrimp, or low-grade CRS'.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Quick update:
Just got word that my filter had shipped on the 18th, so _hopefully_ it should be here wednesday-ish. Was kinda bummed my lights hadnt made it by last saturday(yesterday), but it is getting closer to xmas. Hopefully they will be here tomorrow if not tuesday.

edit: Also I plan to try and do a waterchange today, as it hasnt been done since the tank was set up due to obvious "toe" reasons. But Im feelin a lil better and it NEEDS to be done. Figured Id pull about a 35% WC.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I don't why I made the comment that this is not a low-tech. Must of been a day I over medicated myself due allergic reactions to smokers that I had to walk by.

Sorry!!:icon_redf


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Hilde said:


> I don't why I made the comment that this is not a low-tech. Must of been a day I over medicated myself due allergic reactions to smokers that I had to walk by.
> 
> Sorry!!:icon_redf


Dont worry, I took you as a troll and ignored it. Got a laugh though, I thought I'd witnessed a new low: Planted Tank Forum Trollin'! ROFLMAO!

In all seriousness, it's aight. We all have our "days"...hell I had one of those on Friday! ^_^:biggrin:


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

That was funny!! :hihi:


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

got a couplea new plants tonight. 

unlabled stemish plant, thought it was wisteria.









Ludwigia (sp?) "water primrose"









Now on these....do I plant them in the ground? I figured I would the Ludwigia, since its you know, in a pot, but since I have no clue what this other is, I was just curious.

ALSO: My lightstrip came in. The pics were taken with the new strip and bulbs ;3.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Pretty sure your first stem plant is Rotala indica.

The Ludwigia looks like it was grown emersed, so don't be surprised if it goes through a die-off now that it's submerged. Hopefully it will grow back.

What new lights did you get? [I'm being entirely too lazy to go back and re-read... lol]


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> Pretty sure your first stem plant is Rotala indica.
> 
> The Ludwigia looks like it was grown emersed, so don't be surprised if it goes through a die-off now that it's submerged. Hopefully it will grow back.
> 
> What new lights did you get? [I'm being entirely too lazy to go back and re-read... lol]


 
/yay for rotalas! (I like them lol!)

The ludwigia I honestly have no idea, but coming from Petco, I wouldnt doubt it. I saw these at a Petco on the "rich" side of houston and had to grab em on the way back from the inlaws tonight. ;3

Oh and the lightstrip I ended up getting was....lemme find the link....LOL..... http://www.amazon.com/CL-DBL-AQUA-T...UTF8&coliid=I2F9RGYFXGZQ4&colid=31WNJ404FLO0E

It looks so much better than with the t8 8k. (But I like the color of 8k better)

On a side note:
MY MOSS IS GROWING! I woke up this morning and looked very closely and all the new growth on my mossball is this vibrant green. It isnt algea, its the actual plant. It is also showing these lil "seed" like things under the clump. Im assuming those are seeds?

edit: The ludwigia ia Ludwigia Palustris. I looked at the tag, duhr


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Full tank shot after planting:


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## Frogmanx82 (Dec 8, 2009)

Looking good so far. You need to start thinking about the fish stocking list a bit. If you are wanting to go the shrimp route, you need to decide if you want them to reproduce. Cherry shrimp are pretty prolific, but if you have rams and gouramis that will cut down drastically on the survival rate. Crystal Red Shrimp are really hot right now. Breeding them would be even better.

Decide what pH range you are going to keep the tank and make sure your fish will be happy with it.

Also, in a 20 gallon, I'm not sure a pleco will do well, especially since you have ottos competing in the same food niche. I'd go one or the other but a group of ottos is probably more fun to watch.

A nice showy fish thats fun to keep is fancy guppies. Its fun watching the babies develop into their own unique coloration. Plus, once you get them started, you don't have to buy any more. A good choice for a 20 gallon. There are some really cool varieties out there.

I spotted this on the gold nugget. You definitely should have driftwood in the tank for really any pleco. Note that they gnaw on the wood all day and it does come out the other end which is why they are considered messy.

"I work in an exotic pet store which specializes in all cold/tropical, fresh/salt fish keeping. Within the time my co-workers and I have begun bringing in the "newly discovered Gold Nugget Pleco", we have come to the same conclusions as most everybody else; the Gold Nugget is a much less hardy fish in comparison to it's cousins and is much happier with a shelter and some wood to knaw on (like most other plecos). But, the Gold Nugget is more carnivorous then most other plecos and seems to enjoy worms and brine as much, if not, more, than vegetation/algae. Eats algae from rocks, plants, substrate, wood, and tank sides. Rarely eats plants (only zucchini, bok-choy, and a couple others). Once the fish becomes larger and more comfortable with a tank, she becomes much more "friendly" and doesn't hide as much. Extremely pretty and is a good color enhancement for one's tank."


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

thanks frogman for the input! I meant to put my NEW stocking list up last night, but i was exhausted after planting and only did it on "houston fishboxs'" forums. Here is my new list, cause I did have the same thoughts as yours ;3 (red is a no-go, yellow is a heavy "undecided", and green is a definate yes.)

3 Ottos
3-5 corys (same species)
6-8 rummynose
555555555555 golllllllddd riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiings (lol)
and either: a pair of rams OR x amount undecided shrimps

The husband seems to have a heavy interest in the Crystal Red/Black Shrimp and Blue Tigers. I figured since Blue Tigers are VERY expensive, the best route to go would be to get 10 low grade crystals, see how they do and if they do well, 10 s/ss grade crystals to add to the line. *I am very interested in breeding them.*

I also wondered if 5 cories would be too disruptive to my plants and the baby shrimp. (shrimplets?). The cories I am falling in love with are called "orange lasers" I think, but they look fairly large in someones hand. I might just stick with the smaller, easily attainable ones, but I unno. Whatever is best for the shrimp at this point. The rummies would really just be a mid-level fish, somthing to draw my attention from the base of the tank all the time really.

Im not 100% sure what my PH is, as the test strips are inaccurate, but I did pick up a ammonia test last night as well and found out my ammonia is at ZERO. So that was a perfect end to a perfect day lol! Im looking at pickin up a PH test MAYBE today. I am also lookin into getting a peice of driftwood as a centerpeice today if we end up going out.

As always, I'll keep ya updated! ^_^


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oh the tank is coming together very nicely! The moss has definitely grown since your first pictures! 

A couple of comments on Frogman's comments: 

Regarding pH, I find (and i think most others would agree) that it's best not to "decide" on a pH and use additives to get there, it's much better just to leave the pH alone, fish are good at adapting to a pH out of their "natural" or "preferred" range and therefore they will do much better with a stable, if not ideal, pH than they will with a fluctuating pH that you are trying to maintain at their "ideal" level with additives. It's not a bad idea to test your pH so that you know what it is though because you could run into pH problems, for example, at my old house my water was so unbelievably soft that even though it came out of the tap at over 8 it would drop to around 5 in a matter of hours after a water changes so I clearly had to buffer it upwards somehow. I buffered the pH by adding some crushed coral to my filter and it maintained the pH at a steady 6.4 (if you do need to buffer your pH upwards I strongly recommend this method instead of something you have to add at every water change). 

As for Plecos, I had a clown pleco in my 20g tank and he did just fine, in fact, as far as I know he's still going strong after nearly 3.5 years (i gave the tank to my friend when I moved). They're really cute little plecos BUT they don't really eat any algae, they are just wood eaters, though he will go after sinking wafers and pellets. I didn't know that when I bought him though :tongue: so i eventually added a trio of Otos and later some amano shrimp for algae combating and everyone did (does?) just fine.  Clown plecos hide a lot under their wood too. And I would be careful with gold nugget plecos, they are quite beautiful, but I know LauraLeeLLBP had trouble with gold nuggets devouring her beautiful sword plants, she had to remove them from her planted tank. 

And if you want shrimp, you do need to keep in mind that you'll need to get fish with smallish mouths so they don't become snacks  Guppies are definitely a fun fish and, in my opinion, beautiful fish, endler's livebearers (guppy relatives) are beauties too, though the females have little to no color so as a school they're maybe not quite as pretty as a school of fancy guppies since they've been bred for the females to have some pretty coloring as well. The nice thing about guppies is that they reproduce so rapidly you might even be able to bring some to your local fish or pet store for store credit :thumbsup:


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

thanks karackle! I realllly like guppies, but I kinda wanted to monitor my population since I hear shrimp are quite prolific as well. If you think 2 prolific species would be okay, then I definatly wouldnt mind some of the more unusual-patterned fancy guppies LOL


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Shrimp are quite prolific but they have teeny tiny bioloads and will sort of maintain at a certain density once they've reach "maximum capacity" 

Guppies will actually do this to some extent too, they'll cull they're own if necessary, BUT i just remembered you have a betta in this tank right? Fancy guppies, unfortunately, are probably not your best option then. Fancy guppies are the one fish that i've had bettas go after (and i believe this is a common experience) Best I can figure is the betta sees the long fins on the guppy and thinks it's another betta and attacks. So you might be better off sticking with a school of tetras.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Karackle said:


> Shrimp are quite prolific but they have teeny tiny bioloads and will sort of maintain at a certain density once they've reach "maximum capacity"
> 
> Guppies will actually do this to some extent too, they'll cull they're own if necessary, BUT i just remembered you have a betta in this tank right? Fancy guppies, unfortunately, are probably not your best option then. Fancy guppies are the one fish that i've had bettas go after (and i believe this is a common experience) Best I can figure is the betta sees the long fins on the guppy and thinks it's another betta and attacks. So you might be better off sticking with a school of tetras.


Yea lol! shes a female, but shes quite the diva! I might end up takin her out though. I was able to get a ride to petco and heres what I came home with:

2ft background. Black or Blue: 1.99/ft
1 pc driftwood: 10.99
6 ghost shrimp: .49/ea (rip off I know, but I wanted to test em out)
1 Mid-range Ph test kit: 2.99 (Wardley, not APC. I wanted the APC, but I had a 25$ budget)

Ill take a pic when I get everything tied and situated ^_^


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Yeah, I had 3 female bettas in my 20g and guppies still didn't work that well, if you have a small tank you could put her in instead, then you could definitely do guppies, otherwise i'd probably stick with a school tetra (such as the rummy nose you've mentioned )

Can't wait to see the tank's progress with the new goodies!


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

FTS with half of my hard-scape and background:









you cant even see the ghost shrimp lol! If they manage to survive, which im confident they will, does anyone know if they will cross breed if i put CRS/CBS' in there? If so Ill have to move these later...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Looking great! I LOVE that piece of wood!  I like the nice little bridge it makes! :biggrin:

Your betta girl is pretty too!  

Sorry, I don't have an answer for you on the shrimp front. All i know about shrimp is that RCS are red and VERY prolific and amanos will eat algae :tongue:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No, "ghost" shrimp won't be able to hybridize with CRS. They MAY eat them, however- so I wouldn't mix them for that reason.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Karackle said:


> Looking great! I LOVE that piece of wood!  I like the nice little bridge it makes! :biggrin:
> 
> Your betta girl is pretty too!
> 
> Sorry, I don't have an answer for you on the shrimp front. All i know about shrimp is that RCS are red and VERY prolific and amanos will eat algae :tongue:


^_^ Thanks! Yea she was the prettiest of the CT Females I saw. I know a guy close to me that breeds and shows bettas, so I am thinking of making a set-up similar to his and learning from him! 

I actually looked for RCS' at petco today but all they had were Bamboo Shrimp and they were very big!

As for the Driftwood I ALMOST washed it....but it had alot of what Im guessing to be diatoms on it. (Brown slimey diatomy stuff) Coating it and figured what the hell, the otto brothers and shrimp would like it. If it causes my tank to look a mess, Ill cut photoperiod back and combat it naturally, but I dont think I'll have a problem. I been worried about the otts anyways. I never see them eating. But hopefully that will change as they now have more to hide under and eat. I just wish I knew whether or not they were eating the Algea wafer bits I was puttin in...I actually think the betta may be staking it out cause she always has a full tummy...the pig LOL!

Oh and if you wanan check out the guy who I might be followin on breeding bettas, here is his site, it answered almost every single betta-breeding question I could think of, right down to teaching me to culture my own fry foods! http://texascitybettas.com/

edit: thanks laura, i just saw your post! That is very good to know, at least they will have a home in the 5G I have set up! ^_^


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

water parameters as of 12/22/09:

Ammonia: 0
PH: 7.4 (the highest on the mid-range test kit....I shoulda gotten a high-range one LOL)

GH: 150ppm
KH: 120ppm
ph:7.2-7.8
nitrite: .5
nitrate:20

The two at the top I trust more, because they are actual KITS (brand new ones), whereas the 5 at the bottom are STRIPS, and I just realized the exp date on those are 07/2008. I Fail.

edit: The temp is a constant 80F Degrees.


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## Frogmanx82 (Dec 8, 2009)

I must have bought 50 ghost shrimp over the last year and never could get them to live more than a couple months. I tried iodine supplements, I just couldn't get a breeding population of them. I went and tried the cherry shrimp and starting from 6 now I have 20 or more after 2 months. I don't think the ghost shrimp will eat them, but I would be surprised if your ghost shrimp last that long. For some reason they are just hard to keep long term for most people. 

So don't get discouraged if you lose the ghost shrimp, the cherry shrimp are much hardier and I would suggest getting started with them as soon as you get some algae. The female betta will hunt the shrimplets. If you get the crystal reds, you'll definitely want to move her out.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Frogmanx82 said:


> I must have bought 50 ghost shrimp over the last year and never could get them to live more than a couple months. I tried iodine supplements, I just couldn't get a breeding population of them. I went and tried the cherry shrimp and starting from 6 now I have 20 or more after 2 months. I don't think the ghost shrimp will eat them, but I would be surprised if your ghost shrimp last that long. For some reason they are just hard to keep long term for most people.
> 
> So don't get discouraged if you lose the ghost shrimp, the cherry shrimp are much hardier and I would suggest getting started with them as soon as you get some algae. The female betta will hunt the shrimplets. If you get the crystal reds, you'll definitely want to move her out.


These ghosts werent being sold in the mass-feeder-tank-like setup, they were actually in a tank with a few of them in there so maybe...they'll live. But I will definatly be moving out the female betta later on down the line as well as the ghosts if they survive since most everywhere I have found thatthe ghosts will feed on the shrimplets of basically everything else LOL! 

I think I might stick with the CRS route, and maybe start off with some yellow shrimp. From what I understand the yellows are just as hardy as the cherries and can tolerate high PH levels. Im worried my PH is too high to keep CRS' happy. At least right now.

My temp is nice and warm and everything seems to be happy in the tank (80F Degrees) but after some research Im finding most of the shrimps prefer 68-75F range. So I might try and push it down to 75. I'm just used to keepin everything at a balmy 80F lol!


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## zoragen (Nov 3, 2009)

I love your driftwood center piece!!

And your cat is so neat:biggrin:

I have a 6 gal eclipse w/ a beta & my first attempt at a planted tank.

I have a dwarf sag, micro sword & red sword that are hanging in there but not thriving. 

I didn't realize I how low light I was going (& you can't upgrade eclipse lights) I've been dosing w/ excel & put in some fert tabs so I'm waiting to see how it goes.

I've really enjoyed following your set-up!


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

The tank is looking good... keep at it!


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

d'aaaw thanks guys ^_^:biggrin:

edit: You might wanna look into some of the nano-tank threads here, some of them use a table-top lamp style for more light ive noticed! You can do alot with a 6gallon, that I have learned from browsing those threads! lol!


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Lost 1 of 6 Ghost Shrimps. (Not a molt, the shell was full and the betta was nommin on it lol) It was one of the smaller ones. I have about 3 fairly large ones in there so i am thinking the betta bullied it. :/

edit: Also it seems I have been bitten with the Multi Tank Syndrome bug again...Was just sittin here wondering where I could stick a 10/15/or 20G tank for "female grow outs" that would be produced from a successful betta beeding session. :/


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## Frogmanx82 (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm telling you the ghost shrimp will just die on you. No fault of the betta.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Frogmanx82 said:


> I'm telling you the ghost shrimp will just die on you. No fault of the betta.


LOl yea, maybe its for the best. They would be a pain to catch...especially 5 in a 20g planted! I'll obviously keep care of em, but if nature takes it course o well D:


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

update:
5 Ghosts are still kickin, eating, and having the typical dinner-table drama. A couple have molted so I guess they are happy.

The oto cats seem to be scroungin around in the night time. I never see them eat, so after some research I learn that they are nocturnal feeders. /facepalm

Im gonna try and squeeze in a WC today sometime, maybe after I get more than 2 hours of sleep in 48 hours...I'll shoot a parameter update before the WC whenever that will be.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

PHOTO UPDATE:

The moss ball looked out of place sooo since I found my quartz block I been looking for for 3 weeks, I decided to give it a "hat"









A pond Snail who left me a nice lil blob of eggs today! (camera wouldnt give a good closeup of the clutch) and 3 of the 5 ghost shrimp.









Two Ghost shrimp are scurrying around here somewhere...









The female betta fighting with ehr reflection to combat boredom!









And a Full Tank Shot. I hope fort the moss to overgrow and tone down the white quartz later on. Ill deal with the blinding whiteness for now though ;3









And that was what I did today. Ran a ammonia test it was 0. Ran a Ph test, came out to 7.4. More tests will have to come later as my strips are almost 2 years out of date, and my actual KITS are current. >_>


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## biggecko (Aug 30, 2009)

i have java moss as carpet in my low tech tank check it out its kinda spotty but its growing


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

tank is looking good! Can't wait to see it fill in!


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

weird I lost a o-cat tonight. I was toppin off my tank with some water (exact tank temp w/declorinator) and noticed he hadnt moved all day and wasnt moving when the current hit him from the pitcher. The driftwood knocked over and i went to pick it up and he didnt move at all, but he was alive. He was just really lethargic and pale. so i turned the lights off early tonight, watched tv and 3 hours later flipped the lights on to find him bein eaten by the shrimps. The other ocat found the driftwood as well and has been hanging out on it. he seems to be eating and his eyes, gills, color, etc look alright. everything else in the tank is active and fine. Perhaps it is because they are a bit of a challenge to acclimate? It has been pretty much 2 weeks since I got them, o well. I hate to make the one lone otto wait, but I need to check my water in the morning to be sure it isnt a parameter prob before i buy more to keep him company. :/


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

What did you tie the java moss on to create such a lovely carpet?

Did you find out what killed the cat fish? My first thought was ammonia in the substrate released. For after loosing fish, non-substrate fish, after moving plants learned that ammonia can be in the substrate but not in the water column.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Otos are definitely tricky fish, once they're acclimated and settled, they're super hardy, but getting them to that point is tough. They're very ammonia sensitive too, so I'd probably wait until your tank is fully cycled before adding any more. I'd also be checking your ammonia / nitrIte / nitrAte levels daily at _minimum_ so you know when you need to change the water for the fish that are already in there. Remember, ammonia and nitrIte, even in the smallest doses, are very toxic to fish. Once you see those nitrAtes builiding and your ammonia and nitrIte consistently at 0 then you know your tank is cycled and you can slowly start adding more fish. 

Good luck and I'm sorry to hear about the Oto!


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

really weird. ammonia is 0. On the API test kit it is solid yellow. Indicating zero. I havent picked up the other kits yet, so I unno anything other than Ph and Ammonia.

I figured that the heater was a bit high last night (81ish F) so i lowered it to what looks like 78F, 76 on the low end. After reading up that ocats prefered 78ish and below.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

could be a nitrIte issue then, when in doubt, do a water change! They'll pretty much never hurt (unless you forget to dechlorinate or something ) because they're so toxic, ammonia and nitrIte are probably 2 test kits you definitely want to have, and since a low pH can literally be a killer too, that's also a good one to have. Or you can bring your water to the local pet store and have them test it for you :thumbsup:


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

yea, Ill prolly do a WC when/if mom gets out of the kitchen today. I have no idea what shes doin, but shes been in there all day LOL :hihi:


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## Frogmanx82 (Dec 8, 2009)

Otto cats are notorious for being fragile. The general rule is you need to buy 10 to get 3. You just need to keep getting a few until you find yourself with a number of hardy ones. Once they make it past the first few months, they can last for years. 

Sadly its the price that's paid in order for us to enjoy keeping a few of these animals. Don't do anything rash with your tank, its probably not the issue.


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## ravenmyth (Dec 22, 2008)

Looks like you are making great progress.

I think there is a chance your ghost shrimp will last just fine with your Betta and tank set up. I have 2 in a planted tank with a male Betta and they have happily coexisted for several months.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

messin with my cam:














































thats the lone o cat i have left :<


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

wow, great pictures! Especially the one of that shrimp! Messing with cameras is fun :biggrin:


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

oh....ehm....gee....My other o-cat is AWOL. Literally, no where to be found, cant even find a body. WTH? Guess maybe the shrimp devoured him overnight? Nah.........../facepalm

On the up n' up I DID find 2 huge pumps/powerheads and a smaller one to trade or sell locally...so that will help with the tank-budget and hopefully I can get my betta breeding setup complete >.<


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

yep, I found him LOL. He has been hiding out in the stems blending in with the gravel. Hes alive, just not in his usual 2 places.:icon_conf

His eyes look a bit sunk in......but hes alive :/









and the betta....after shes ate her fill


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Did a WC last night...O-cat didnt make it. Parameters were perfect so I unno. :/ Shrimps and betta are fine. Gonna be waitin a while before gettin more of them. Still saving up for some cherry shrimp so hopefully in a couplea weeks tank will be okay.

edit: The ludwigia is starting to loose its leaves. I think that is because as someone pointed out that it looks to have been grown emersed. The big leaves kinda droop then fall off and float to the top. I have noticed new leaflets growing from the base where the old ones snapped off, so hopefully the stems wont rot and die. I dont know much about emersed plants other than it seems like a bunch of work for nothing, if they just die after being submerged...even if they grow back. But to each thier own I spose LOL.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Kittysnax said:


> edit: The ludwigia is starting to loose its leaves. I have noticed new leaflets growing from the base


I found that Ludwiga are nitrogen hogs.

What is your substrate? Could you post a full view?


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Hilde said:


> I found that Ludwiga are nitrogen hogs.
> 
> What is your substrate? Could you post a full view?


eco-complete


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

if you were told it looks like the ludwiga was grown emersed first and it's losing larger leaves but you're seeing new growth, then I wouldn't worry about it just yet. It probably IS that it's just transitioning from emersed to submerged growth roud: keep an eye on it though of course and if you start losing all of the leaves or the stems are rotting, then it could be a different issue :thumbsup: 

LOVE the pictures of your pretty female betta too, they're great!  What kind of camera are you using? 

Also, sorry to hear about the otos  I hate that! how is your pH? have you taken your water to be tested for nitrIte? Is there enough food for them in the tank? like is there algae in the tank or are you supplementing with something else and if you're supplementing, are they eating it?


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Karackle said:


> if you were told it looks like the ludwiga was grown emersed first and it's losing larger leaves but you're seeing new growth, then I wouldn't worry about it just yet. It probably IS that it's just transitioning from emersed to submerged growth roud: keep an eye on it though of course and if you start losing all of the leaves or the stems are rotting, then it could be a different issue :thumbsup:
> Yea, I hope that is the case. It was sold submerged, but a fellow forum poster said it looked to have been grown emersed. and judging by how the leaves acted inthe water I believe theyre right LOL!
> 
> LOVE the pictures of your pretty female betta too, they're great!  What kind of camera are you using?
> ...


 My answers in red lol


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

*A ton of help*

So a awesome chick on my local forums hooked me up today with some plants and cherries in exchange for a massive pump I wanted to trade! 

She ID'ed them all, but after the hour+ commute home....I kinda forgot some of them...Im saving that empty space for a peice of Driftwood D.S.Drifter is hookin me up with! Hopefully some of the java fern varients can find a home there when it comes!




















































Just a few thats in there that I DID kinda remember: Subwassertang, java moss, (2 diff varients of java ferns needle and somthin else?), I wanna say a taiwan moss-wall, a type of crypt, a corkscrew-like plant, a long tall grassy like plant, and somthing that is reddish green that I have no idea how to plant so I let it float for now until I hear back from her LOL.

The shrimp are doing AMAZING and tolerated the trip rather well. They were clear/grey all the way home, but after i released them, they soon turned to a bright red. She even gave me a berried female, so Naturally I'm psyched.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Great proggres! The other java fern is called "windelove' (I am pretty sure thats how you spell it!)


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Kittysnax said:


> Just a few thats in there that I DID kinda remember: Subwassertang, java moss, (2 diff varients of java ferns needle and somthin else?), I wanna say a taiwan moss-wall, a type of crypt, a corkscrew-like plant, a long tall grassy like plant, and somthing that is reddish green


If reddish plant has round leaves it could be a ludwiga variety. If it has long leaves then probably a crypt variety.


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## zoragen (Nov 3, 2009)

You take great pics!!

I need to practice more w/ my camera.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

thanks guys! 

My pics werent that great until i realized i wasnt using the "close-up" setting (the little flower icon wasnt on LOL) Now I have to snap about 5 pics of the same thing, but eventually get one that it just right. Better than goin out and spending a ton of money on a DSLR-camera.

NOW....my computer is not recognizing the device (my camera) or my memory stick anymore so no more pix until I figure out wth is wrong......and I snapped some awesome pics yesterday of the cherries and 3 new emerald cories my husband got me >.<


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Kittysnax said:


> NOW....my computer is not recognizing the device (my camera) or my memory stick.


What operating system do you have? If by microsoft, perhaps scanning with superantispyware will help find the problem. Google it and you will find there is a free version. When I had windows xp with addition firewall and virus protection I got 3 trojans. The superantispyware found the 3rd one which I got no notification of.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Hilde said:


> What operating system do you have? If by microsoft, perhaps scanning with superantispyware will help find the problem. Google it and you will find there is a free version. When I had windows xp with addition firewall and virus protection I got 3 trojans. The superantispyware found the 3rd one which I got no notification of.


it was user error................i hasd the camera set to "video" instead of "photo".../facepalm:redface:

ANYwho......LOL! Heres what I snapped yesterday:

crypts..i hope this is what they look like "not melted"









my best pic so far i think. Red Cherry Shrimp:









emerald cory:









cherry shrimp:









Emerald cories:









Shrimp and cories argue over wafer bits:


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## sliver (Dec 31, 2009)

hi Kittysnax! loving your tank! I had the same tank size but still on the learning process on planted-tank...

just like to ask anyone, I'm referring this question to post #101, what's the name of the plant on the last pic? the long tall grassy like plant? I got a bunch on hand..but dunno what's the name..thanks


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

sliver said:


> hi Kittysnax! loving your tank! I had the same tank size but still on the learning process on planted-tank...
> 
> just like to ask anyone, I'm referring this question to post #101, what's the name of the plant on the last pic? the long tall grassy like plant? I got a bunch on hand..but dunno what's the name..thanks


That would be somesort of vallniserea, (did I spell that right?)


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

the other kind of java is definitely windelov, the crypts look to be Cryptocoryne wendtii red or bronze, but I'm not certain, looks like you have some "foxtail" in the back there. 

Tank is looking good, that's great that you were able to make a trade and fill up the tank! WOOHOO!  Cherries look great too!

*edit* forgot to mention, great pics again! You're definitely getting good with the macro setting! roud:


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## sliver (Dec 31, 2009)

sliver said:


> hi Kittysnax! loving your tank! I had the same tank size but still on the learning process on planted-tank...
> 
> just like to ask anyone, I'm referring this question to post #101, what's the name of the plant on the last pic? the long tall grassy like plant? I got a bunch on hand..but dunno what's the name..thanks


ok, more googling and trying to answer my own query, i thought this might be the plant I asked for name: Chilensis http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+1626&pcatid=1626 I'm not sure if this is the one...seems there's a lot of look-a-like on this plant lol


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

JakeJ said:


> That would be somesort of vallniserea, (did I spell that right?)


yep its been ID'd as plain ol' Val's, mainly because it surpassed 12" easily. I had to trim it to fit in my tank


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

update!

Found a 2nd berried RCS. I only had 1 to begin with so in less than 5 days They have done the "deed" and I got a 2nd batch on the way LOL!

I also put in a order to Drs Fosters and Smith so I have some stuff on the way for breeding the bettas, as well as a master test kit and some Flourish Excel. I also have to go pick up like 6 - 10 gallon tanks and 3 - 5 gallon tanks sometime this weekend or next....A guy is gettin out of the hobby so I'm gettin a awesome deal ;3


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2009)

What kind of cat is that!!!
VERY cool!


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> What kind of cat is that!!!
> VERY cool!


LOL the breed is known as the "Sphynx". VERY awesome cat, she was worth every penny paid!!! <3


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

OMG DFS takes FOREVER to ship stuff......../sigh


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Ok it only took like 8 days to get, but I finally got my package from DFS! /yay! I started dosing Flourish Excel today. I dont know if I wanna do it every other day or every day. The bottle suggests either or....

I also got all of my test kits and figured Id run a full test here in a little while once I get the Flourish smell out of my room. (The bottle leaked a bit in the post and so my room smells like it now....and I have a massive headache!)

I also did a rescape and stuff. Im not really happy with how things have turned out, but its okay for now. Pics soon!

-Kitty

edit: Forgot to mention I got 4 more cories about a week or so ago. So I now have 2 emeralds, 2 spotted, and 2 albino cories with my shrimp. Thats all I plan to keep. ^^


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Nitrate: 0-5
Nitrite: 0-.25
Ph: 7.8ish
Ammonia: 0

--
FTS:








Spotted Cory:








Albinos:








Right Side:








Right Side 2:








Left Side:








Left Side 2:








Female CT Betta:









edit: The rocks are Petrified Wood


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## innerchi89 (Mar 30, 2008)

Hilde said:


> What operating system do you have? If by microsoft, perhaps scanning with superantispyware will help find the problem. Google it and you will find there is a free version. When I had windows xp with addition firewall and virus protection I got 3 trojans. The superantispyware found the 3rd one which I got no notification of.


Thanks for recommending that! It helped me.


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

update: I downgraded to a 10G to make room for my new saltwater system

10g version:









new toy, semi-clear. 30G Oceanic Cube (not a biocube):


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Great tank progress! How could you be a trator to saltwater! :icon_smil


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

JakeJ said:


> Great tank progress! How could you be a trator to saltwater! :icon_smil


SW is where I have most of my experience to be honest! All the way up to 500G tanks! Freshwater is just too easy for me, especially once I figured out that planted tanks werent as hard as they seemed to be LOL! I needed more of a challenge. But I love my cories and shrimp so I couldnt get rid of them, just downgraded. I honestly think my 10G looks better, it was 100% easier to scape ROFL!:tongue:

If anyone is interested in the SW build though, it can be found here: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=224267&pid=2662038&st=0&#entry2662038


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Update: Distilled Water> Tap Water

I used the leftover distilled water from my SW build to fill up my 10g when I moved and xferred everything over. My plants have never been greener, my moss has never been more lush, and my shrimp & snails have exploded with life. Everything looks amazing! I really need to snap a pic, but as most people this time of night, my husband is asleep heh heh


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## Kittysnax (Dec 8, 2009)

Old video of the two tanks. (skip to the 1:05 for the planted tank) I just sold off and pruned some of my plants and shrimp today so it looks less overgrown. Ill miss it, but It will grow back again ;P My SW tank isnt bare anymore. It now has some corals and fish in it. That thread can be found http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=224267


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