# API Super Ich Cure/Benzaldehyde Green bad for fish?



## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

I have a monster-fish tank stocked with one longear sunfish, one warmouth sunfish, one twig catfish, one clown squeaker cat, and five spotted silver dollars. Yesterday I noticed that the squeaker cat has ich, so I got a bottle of API Super Ich Cure. It says to treat at half-strength if there are scaleless fish in the tank, so I did. All the fish shot into hiding- unsurprising, since the meds colored the water bright blue. Today, though, they really don't look happy. 
The longear is moving in this uncomfortable sort of jerky manner and shimmying quite a bit, and it won't come out of hiding. 
The warmouth's eyes are clouded over a bit, and its skin looks like its slimecoat is going a bit nuts. It plainly isn't happy. 
The twig catfish is currently sitting with its head as far out of water as it can manage while still being able to breathe. It does something like this to get at the stuff growing just above the waterline, but it usually doesn't have its head so far out of water. I actually thought it was dead (it didn't move when I moved the powerhead it was on), mostly because it didn't move until I picked it up out of the water. 
I can't find the squeaker cat, so I'm not sure how it's doing. 
The silver dollars are all lurking around in the back, looking very unhappy with themselves. 
The bottle says "Each 5ml contains 1.5 mg Benzaldehyde Green and 1% PVP". Could either of these be the issue? 
Is this anywhere near normal?
To be on the safe side, should I do a big water change?


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

Do a big water change. FYI, benzaldehyde green is a synonym for malachite green.

Benzaldehyde Green, CAS Number: 569-64-2

It's more potent in soft, acidic water so I dose a bit of baking soda and GH booster in the water when using it to treat my fish in my quarantine tank.

Formalin and malachite green | The Skeptical Aquarist


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Yah, I'd do a 90% water change to use a gentler ich med.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeesh, why are they selling this? 
Is there any dosage that might be safe for my fish? Because the only other ich med at the store is something that I'm fairly sure killed a bunch of glowlight tetras last time I used it. I'd really like to use Kordon Herbal Ich Attack, but I can't seem to find the stuff.


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

It's rather effective at killing ich if used properly. However, several tank variables can make it more toxic, meaning it can do more harm than good if you don't know your tank parameters. I still use it since it's readily available and I'm able to control the variables of my quarantine tank when dosing it. I wouldn't dose it in a display tank, especially a large one such as yours. You can try ordering Kordon Herbal Ich attack from various online retailers if it's not available locally.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Well, I've just found the squeaker cat dead. And this is at half-dose, I'm pretty sure everything in the tank would be dead if I'd used the full dose. 
The squeaker cat was the only one badly infected, so I do have a couple of days to order the herbal stuff from Amazon. I might just get a couple bottles so I always have some on hand- the last two ich meds I've tried have both killed fish.

Edit: Apparently the stuff I've used in the past was discontinued. Is Amazon.com : KORDON Ich Attack #96022 Natural Disease Inhibitor - 16 oz. (available 12/cs) : Aquarium Treatments : Pet Supplies effective with a mild outbreak?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

What is your pH? The super ich cure dosage is dependent on the pH.

Seachem make a some ich meds.
Seachem. AquaZole


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Definitely do a large water change. Use carbon too, since it sounds to be negatively impacting the fish pretty bad.

As Monster Fish pointed out, pH and hardness levels can play a big role in med effectiveness or ineffectiveness, or worse, cause certain meds to become very toxic to fish.
And which, Malachite Green is much more toxic at lower pH and low hardness levels.
Not to mention redox balance plays a big role in fishes' (humans and animals as well) immune system health.

Hmm, I actually wonder if the higher toxic levels at lower pH mean that it might of killed the ich already/much quicker? Just a thought. Not really sure if it would be more lethal to ich as well, and don't know if it still would affect all life stages of ich or not, or just the vulnerable free swimming state. Would be interesting to hear if you see any ich "improvements" on the fish or not.

But anyways, to the meds. I am not sure what PVP is, but I think it is just another name for Formalin, and so this API Super Ich Cure med is just another Malachite Green + Formalin product. Formalin is also more toxic in soft, acidic water. And it should not be used on any fish with open wounds as it will most likely kill them.
I find Malachite Green to actually be pretty well tolerated, and it is the Formalin that is the harsh part of the med. But as stated, if you have low pH/GH, Malachite Green is more toxic. 

I don't know too much about the fish species you have here, but thought I'd mention. On my bottle of Mardel QuICK Cure (M. Green/Formalin), it says to uses 1/2 dose on tetras (Characins), don't know if any of your fish categorizes as Characins (don't think so, but thought I'd mention). Kordon Rid Ick Plus, uses the same ingredients, but doesn't list that 1/2 dose warning for tetras, and it also says it's well tolerated by "scale-less" fish (loaches, catfish, etc.). I've used both of these products and they are still harsh chemicals, even with proper/higher pH/KH/GH levels, which is why I personally don't use these anymore.

Seachem makes similar product called ParaGuard (very broad spectrum) that uses Malachite Green, but has a safer form of Formalin (aldehydes) vs the more toxic Formaldehyde used in other meds. I do have some on hand as a "just in case", last resort stronger med (this edges out the other similar meds using Formaldehyde). So if you had to use a similar product I would recommend this one.

In my experience in the past, I have treated ick with copper based meds and the fish tolerated it pretty well, but obviously they are not safe for inverts. But Seachem also makes a safer "form of copper" in their product called Cupramine. I would recommend that over other Copper meds if you wanted to go the copper approach.

Seachem also has PolyGuard and SulfaPlex, and they supposedly should be able to treat ick. No experience with those, but they use Sulfathiazole which is decent, but I've read quite a lot of infections are resistant to it nowadays so it might not be the most effective.

Regarding Seachem Aquazole, it's just Metronidazole (MetroPlex) with Potassium Sulfate added to it to give more Ions to the fish to better absorb it (the product essentially is "diluted" though, and most of us planted tank people have Potassium Sulfate on hand anyways).
Even though it says it will treat Ich, it personally wouldn't be a very highly recommended choice by me. It is pretty much just as well tolerated by fish as Praziquantel (PraziPro), and safe for plants and inverts, but just isn't the most effective at treating ich. 
I have read some peoples' experiences treating ich with Metro and it's nice to see it works somewhat, but it does seem to take quite long and I am not sure how well it would do in severe outbreaks. And with that longer treatment means more cost in meds. But hey, it is a pretty gentle treatment so I won't knock anyone for trying it. If you did use Metro, it is best used in fish food, rather than dosing the water column.
Metronidazole For ICH? - 144500

I have used Kordon Ich Attack and I've been pleased with it. Worked on at least 2 ick cases. I tried it on a pretty severe outbreak (didn't monitor new fish in quarantine so it progressed pretty far before I spotted it) for a few days. The fish weren't dying, but I didn't see much reduction in ick cysts so I impatiently switched to a harsher med (QuICK Cure), well the harsh med ended up killing most of the fish (I am sure it was not primarily due to the ick itself, as fish were not in much distress -especially when using Ich Attack- before this dosing this med). I blame myself for not sticking with Ich Attack during that outbreak. I know better that severe outbreaks can take longer duration of treatments to cure, but I obviously was just impatient with the "lack of results" (fish were actually doing very well, just didn't see reduction of cysts....yet). I am pretty sure if I kept dosing Ich Attack, or maybe even increased the dosage, it would have be effective even on this severe outbreak. Just sharing my experience. Ich Attack is my go to med above all other methods I know for ich and other common infections. Very gentle, even therapeutic on fish and safe for plants and inverts. But obviously it doesn't treat all disease.

Or you could go the high heat only or the heat and salt or just the salt methods. I am sure you know these. Many people have had success with these, but not me personally as I have voiced quite a few times. I did the heat and salt method, followed to a T and did for over 3 weeks, and vacuumed the substrate every other day. Some ick cysts appeared on other fish, but it all just seemed to have halted and not receded at all so clearly it was no cure for me. Not to mention the heat (yes I increased dissolved oxygen) and/or salt (not sure which was causing more stress, and I am sure the stress signs were not from the ick) was stressing out the fish quite a bit more than I felt comfortable with putting them through, so I had to change treatments. Only thing I can equate it to is maybe I had a heat resistant strain of ick. But regards, I didn't like how stressed my fish got over the heat/salt, so I can't imagine attempting to do the either or route at higher temps (heat only 86-90*F)/doses (salt only). Not to mention nearly all of my plants died.

OR you can go the less documented and less traditional route and use less common meds, such as Quinine Sulfate (said to be much safer on sensitive scaleless fish) or Chloramine T or Potassium Permanganate. I've heard about using Garlic, but I think that may be more of a therapeutic aid rather than a cure. You could also incorporate a inline UV to kill free swimming, vulnerable ich.
And oddly enough, on a quick search on Seachem, I seen them mention a rumor that leaving the lights on longer will keep the fish more actively swimming so the free swimming ich babies (tomites) have a harder time attaching and so would remain in the water column longer without a host and has more time/chance to pass through the UV. Can't say that I've heard that one before. Sort of makes reasonable sense, but I would far from rely on that as a effective treatment. But they were just mentioning it, not really recommending it.

Despite how it may seem, no I do not sell Kordon or Seachem or any meds. I've just done quite a bit of research on meds recently and just sharing what I have learned.
Well, hope any of this way of any use or better understanding as to why there was a negative reaction. Hope things get better.


EDIT: Oh, I just re-searched the API Super Ich Cure med trying to figure out what PVP was and found this
Prime and Ick Treatment? ? Cichlid-Forum
The user "dreday", says "I just pulled up the MSDS for super ich cure, it contains salt, nitrofurazone, silica, and malachite green. Salt is 95% of the compound. So in my opinion not the best product to buy to treat ich when you can buy straight salt much cheaper. Nitro is for secondary bacterial infection, which is good but it is a tiny amount. Malachite green is usually used when treating ich, but its primary purpose is to treat fungus."
So that kind of throws out what I said about it being Formalin. Just wanted to point that out. I didn't pull up the MSDS myself to confirm.


Mannnnn, 2nd super long post of the night 


EDIT 2: Oh and almost forgot. About the Ich Attack you posted, I am not sure if that is the same exact thing as Kordon Ich Attack. Seems they might be the same ingredients, just under two different brand/distributor names (Kordon and Home Grown Ponics, probably the same company really), but I can't say for sure.
I use this one
Aquarium Treatments : Amazon.com: KORDON #39446 Ich Attack-Ich Treatment for Aquarium, 16-Ounce
Much cheaper than the one you posted and the 16oz. still treats 960 gallons. At that price, I always have 2 on hand  I order from Kensfish and the pic there is the same as shown on Amazon, but comes looking like this
http://www.kordon.com/kordon/produc...ck-disease-treatment#compatabilities-toxicity!


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Thank you so much for all the info! 
I was using a half-dose because I have two catfish, but apparently there was still a bit too much. 
The water is still tinged green, and my sunnies both look a bit unhappy. Judging by the way the longear is acting, he's still infected. I can't see anything, but he's still shimmying slightly and acting like his gills are uncomfortable. The warmouth is hanging out in midwater, breathing a bit heavily, but his extreme slime coat has faded a bit. I think he might also have some ich. I can't find the twig cat, so I don't know if it's alive or not. 
Is it safe to do another 90% water change today in order to hopefully get the last bit of that stuff out? I'm going to treat with a much gentler medication, but I need to get too-harsh medication out first, especially since it's still visible staining the water.


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## patfat (Oct 23, 2015)

Honestly straight down to the point I use Seachem ParaGuard. The stuff seems to work for me and Its nice that it can cure a few different things as an all in one med. The crappy thing is I needed a bottle in a hurry and I had to go to my LFS "only place that sells it in my area not even the big box do" any ways $20 bucks for a bottle of 250ml. I know I know I can go on amazon and get that 500ml for that price but I was in a hurry and wanted to start treatment the other night so I needed a new bottle to hold me over until my order comes in. but any ways Seachem ParaGuard it works.


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## Leeatl (Aug 8, 2015)

You can get Kordon Ich Attack at Petco if there is one in your area.Cheaper online if you can wait.


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