# Clean Slate now an Amazon biotope



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Hello all, 

This journal will follow the redo of my 40B that i've had up and running since March 2016. This tank is where I pulled the training wheels off and stepped into the high tech realm for the first time.

A little background for you all before I bore you with the tank specs. For the the first 6 months the tank did surprisingly well with very few issues. well then September rolled about and I got hit with BBA and a lot of the plants just weren't doing so hot. I had forgotten when I originally set this tank up I had a bag of Eco Complete laying around that I mixed in with about 70 pounds of blasting grit. The only thing i could think of was I had a build up of micro nutrients and i'm blaming the Eco for it. So 2 weeks ago I tore the whole thing down and replaced all the substrate.

I would like to give a special thanks to @burr740 and @houseofcards as they've helped me quite a bit through the first 8 months of this venture.

*Equipment*

Tank - 40B
Heater - 150w Eheim Jäger 
Powerhead - Koralia Nano 240

*General tanks specs*

Ph- 6.8 degased, 5.9 at peak co2
Gh - 6
Kh - 4

*Filtration*

- Eheim Classic 2217
- Eheim Skim 350

*Lighting*

Front light - Beamswork 42x1w led
Rear light - Fluval Fresh and Plant 2.0

*CO2*

Regulator - Airgas Y12-244D, Burkert 6011A solenoid and a Swagelock SS-SS2-VH metering valve
Diffusion - Cerges reactor 

*Substrate*

The best substrate around, 20/40 Black Diamond blasting grit

*Fertilization*

EI based and dosed per Rotala Butterfly dosing calculator for a 35 gallon tank

*Plants*

- Pogostemon Erectus
- Pogostemon Helferi
- Ludwigia sp. Red
- Ludwigia Arcuata
- Limnophila Aromatica
- Blyxa Japonica
- Java Fern
- Hygophila Corymbosa Compact
- Alternanthera Reineckii mini
- Staurogyne Repens
- Micranthemum Monte Carlo
- Anubias Nana Petite
- Hydroctyle Tripartia

*Fish & Inverts*

- 15 Green neon tetras
- 10 Ember tetras
- 7 Rummynose tetras
- 5 Orange laser corydoras
- 5 Otocinclus catfish
- 1 L182 Starlight pleco
- 1 pair of Apistogramma Erythrura mamore
- 1 pair of Apistogramma Borelli yellow face
- 8 Amano shrimp
- who knows how many Ramshorn snails

Let's hope this go-round turns out better for the long haul. I've learned so much within the past year and it's a constant learning learning experience which i'm sure won't end. 


Pictured below is a shot from a bout 2 months ago when things were doing pretty good. Also a few shots of the tear down process and some corydoras digging the open area to play around in.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

holy cow! my wanna be aquarium!


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## Ryan Stephens (Nov 2, 2016)

wow that tank is gorgeous!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Thanks a lot, here's how it's looking today. Waiting for it to fill in sucks.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Wow that pic 2 months ago is a stunner! Like the new layout too.

Couple of observations:

The AR leaves look perfectly flat in both the before and after pic. That's a good sign the problem was not excessive micros, or low Ca or Mg. Either of the three will cause the leaf edges to severely undulate.

As the overall plant mass goes up, so does the global demand for nutrients and co2. Slower species will begin to get out-competed if either one is in short supply.

If you weighed all the plants in the before pic, and compared it to the total weight in the after pic, there'd be a huge difference. 

Think of the tank as room full of people, and there's one platter of food to feed them all. The plants are the people and the platter of food represents ferts and co2.

Lets say there are 20 people in the freshly trimmed after pic. In the before pic...it's more like 200, and the platter of food hasnt changed.

Flow is also greatly reduced when a tank gets full. There's no way around it. So not only do resources begin to run short, to make matters worse they arent being delivered as efficiently because the flow cant reach everywhere.

The tank was too good for much to be wrong. I suspect it simply reached a point where it ran short of something. CO2 is the most likely suspect. 

That's not a very big drop in PH. Any way you can hit a full 1.0?


For this second go around, try to keep the biomass in check better. Leave some space between groups for better flow. Prune the fast growing stems more regularly.

It's much better to do small trims on a handful of species every week or two, than to wait until the whole tank is a jungle and do it all.

Just like everything else in a high tech set-up, the overall plant mass should be fairly consistent. or at least a person should be aware of the implications.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

burr740 said:


> That's not a very big drop in PH. Any way you can hit a full 1.0?


Yeah I can, before I tore it down I was getting down to about 5.9 or lower. I recently discovered the ph/co2/kh chart, and from what I saw I only need to drop by about .2 to achieve 30ppm co2 concentration. I've been toying with the metering valve the last few days and it's back up again because my drop checkers super yellow right now.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...s/1096681-understanding-ph-kh-co2-levels.html


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

The chart also shows degassed levels around 20 ppm, which cannot be right.

The yellow drop checker is good sign though, assuming the solution inside is 4dKH


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

burr740 said:


> The chart also shows degassed levels around 20 ppm, which cannot be right.
> 
> The yellow drop checker is good sign though, assuming the solution inside is 4dKH


Yeah it's 4dKH fluid and the tank water has a huge of 4 as well. The ar is doing really well besides the older leaves which from what I've read are generally prone to algae. Oh, and since I did the tear down the Aromatica has gotten some really good color😉.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Nlewis said:


> Oh, and since I did the tear down the Aromatica has gotten some really good color��.


Yep, think it's safe bet you just let the biomass out run the tank's resources. It's a lot more common issue than we tend to think, especially for high light tanks


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Wow, super healthy plants, nice layout that's what it's all about. Glad I was able to help in any small way, congrats! Definitely a motivator to get someone into this or like me get a big tank going again.


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## ArchimedesTheDog (Apr 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Thanks a lot, here's how it's looking today. Waiting for it to fill in sucks.


Good luck with the reboot! It's a beautiful start.


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## MUTigers (Oct 26, 2016)

Beautiful tank, before and after being redone!

What kind of cories are those? And what is the shorter red plant in the original tank?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

MUTigers said:


> Beautiful tank, before and after being redone!
> 
> What kind of cories are those? And what is the shorter red plant in the original tank?
> 
> ...


Those are gold laser corydoras and the smaller red plant is Alternanthera Reineckii mini.


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## MUTigers (Oct 26, 2016)

Thanks! Great looking cories! I'm thinking that AR mini is what I want in my tank!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Weekly update, everything is just clicking along. Looks like the MC is starting to spread some as it's still converting to a submersed form.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Weekly update, everything is just clicking along. Looks like the MC is starting to spread some as it's still converting to a submersed form.


Beautiful tank, wish I could get something like this going. 

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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Do it, you just have to dive right in to the deep end.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Do it, you just have to dive right in to the deep end.


I would, but just can't afford the equipment. It's ridiculously expensive. 

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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Mattb126 said:


> I would, but just can't afford the equipment. It's ridiculously expensive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk


Co2 set up is the most costly part, you can get the lighting done on a budget.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Co2 set up is the most costly part, you can get the lighting done on a budget.


Any suggestions on good lighting for cheap?

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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

T5's or CFL's depending on the size tank.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> T5's or CFL's depending on the size tank.


What would be better for a 55?

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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

A 2 T5HO fixture should get you into the high light zone on a 55g tank.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> A 2 T5HO fixture should get you into the high light zone on a 55g tank.


Okay, thanks I'll look into it!

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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Nlewis said:


> Weekly update, everything is just clicking along. Looks like the MC is starting to spread some as it's still converting to a submersed form.


Beautiful tank. Very healthy looking plants. Looks like you have the "green thumb"!

Look forward to seeing how it fills in.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Beautiful tank. Very healthy looking plants. Looks like you have the "green thumb"!
> 
> Look forward to seeing how it fills in.


Hey there, I've seen you on many other threads before and you seem like a really knowledgable guy. Would you mind checking out my post and letting me know what you think? Thanks!

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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So it's happening again. A few of the Aromatica stems stunted and shot out some shoots. When you look downward on them the tops look super pale like it's iron deficient. Not sure where to go from here. What does a Mg deficiency look like by chance?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

One week later and here we are. 

I'm still battling my nemesis that is L. Aromatica which I just don't want to give up on. Also have some brush algae of the green variety that's been popping up and I've been spot treating with H202. I'm feeling like I might bump up my macros a bit this week and see what happens. I'm also implementing the "rest day" to my dosing schedule this week as I've never done this before and used my water change day as my rest day.

I've also been contemplating whether or not to start adding some gh booster after water changes. My gh is 6 so pretty sure this is an unnecessary step, but will extra Mg and Ca hurt anything?


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## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

Looks really good. I'm thinking you need to start thinking about taking the "Just a noob" signature off your posts.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Ben Belton said:


> Looks really good. I'm thinking you need to start thinking about taking the "Just a noob" signature off your posts.


Nah, I'll always be just a noob compared to the likes of quite a few people on here.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Not sure what the aromatica issue could be, but the tank overall is looking very nice!

Just have to keep playing with different variables, and look for signs of unhappiness in other plants to help give a clue. At least that's all I'd know to do


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

burr740 said:


> Not sure what the aromatica issue could be, but the tank overall is looking very nice!
> 
> Just have to keep playing with different variables, and look for signs of unhappiness in other plants to help give a clue. At least that's all I'd know to do


Do you add any extra Ca or Mg to yours tanks at all? I know this depends on what's coming out of your tap, but does adding any extra Mg cause any issues. I looked up the dosing amounts and it was over a tsp 3x a week which seemed like it was pretty high.

Also your gh is based of the amounts of Ca and Mg in your water correct? Does one play more of a factor in your gh level?

To me I feel like it's missing something and these are the 2 nutrients I do not dose.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

My tap has 50 ppm of Ca and about 4 Mg, so I add another 5-10 ppm Mg via Epsom salt at water changes.

I would again suggest you get PortalmasterRY to test your water, that way you'll know for certain what's in it. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/153-sale-trade/1013689-water-parameter-nutrient-testing.html

Having said that, unless your GH is through the roof already, it wont hurt anything to add 1-2 degrees of GH booster, which will have both Ca and Mg. Or you could try just Mg around 5-10 ppm or so.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

burr740 said:


> My tap has 50 ppm of Ca and about 4 Mg, so I add another 5-10 ppm Mg via Epsom salt at water changes.
> 
> I would again suggest you get PortalmasterRY to test your water, that way you'll know for certain what's in it. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/153-sale-trade/1013689-water-parameter-nutrient-testing.html
> 
> Having said that, unless your GH is through the roof already, it wont hurt anything to add 1-2 degrees of GH booster, which will have both Ca and Mg. Or you could try just Mg around 5-10 ppm or so.


I mean I have th booster, but I wasn't sure whether to add it and if so how much with my gh being at 6 already.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Another weekly updated picture. Nothing much has changed and I'm not seeing any explosive growth out of the MC. I bumped my macros up a bit to see if it helps at all and today with the WC I added 1/2 tsp of gh booster. 

On a side note, the other day I started looking at ph controllers. Any of you have any dealings with the Milwaukee controllers? Are they decent?


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Tanks looking very nice!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Ehh, it could be better.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Ehh, it could be better.


Heh, atleast it doesn't look like mine [emoji19]


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Here I am again a week later. Finally had to top the Pogo Erectus and the MC is sloooooow growing. I'm feeling like I need to add more iron do to the Aromatica. If I look down on them the tops look washed out and real pale. I'm already dosing .2ppm of csmb and another .1ppm of DTPA 10% iron chelate.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Looking good!

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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm also looking into switching from led to t5's. I'm running into some issues finding a cost effective 4 bulb fixture. No one really makes a 3' fixture except ATI and I'm not paying $500 for a t5 fixture. It's looking like my only option would be to buy a 4' fixture and the light will overhang each side by 6 inches. Anyone have some suggestions?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Just thought I'd upload some pics of the some of the inhabitants of my 40b.


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## sharambil (Nov 15, 2016)

What apistogramma species are those? What is that little black fish?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

sharambil said:


> What apistogramma species are those? What is that little black fish?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Apistogramma Borelli and Erythrura Mamore. Which black fish are you referring to?


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## fatduece (Aug 17, 2016)

Very nice tank. Are the apistos harassing the shrimp?


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## PortalMasteryRy (Oct 16, 2012)

What is you PO4, NO3 and estimate K levels based on your dosing?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

fatduece said:


> Very nice tank. Are the apistos harassing the shrimp?


Never

Bump:


PortalMasteryRy said:


> What is you PO4, NO3 and estimate K levels based on your dosing?


I'm dosing po4 at 2ppm, I bumped this up 2 weeks ago from the 1.3ppm due to green spot algae. 
Kno3 is dosed at somewhere around 8.5 I believe and I feel this needs to be raised as well due to smalls holes developing in the hygro compact. I could also add k2so4 for this but just haven't yet for some reason. 

And some day I'll get this water to you that I bottled up and packed 2 weeks ago.


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## sharambil (Nov 15, 2016)

This guy


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

sharambil said:


> This guy


That's the apistogramma erythrura mamore. He's actually a light brown with a blue Hugh to him with a bright red tail. It's so hard to get a good pic of him because he's always posted up under that driftwood.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Weekly update. 

Had to thin out the Blyxa and pulled out about 30 stems. Also hacked down the s. repens due to the green spot algae that had developed before I bumped up the po4 levels. I. Also continuing to battle this [censored][censored][censored][censored]ing green BBA which I just can't get rid of. There's definitely an imbalance somewhere as it's attacking the MC which is just not taking off.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

sharambil said:


> This guy


Here's a better pic.


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## sharambil (Nov 15, 2016)

Cool! He's so pretty!

I am looking to buy wild type apistogramma bitaeniata from peru...have you had any experience with them?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

sharambil said:


> Cool! He's so pretty!
> 
> I am looking to buy wild type apistogramma bitaeniata from peru...have you had any experience with them?


Nope, but I think they're closely related to the agies.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Weekly update time. 

I'm continuing to try and rid this tank of this green BBA, to the point where I'm triple dosing metricide to no avail. I dimmed the Fluval at the rear of the tank and halved micros this week. This seems to have had a positive effect as I getting some really good color out of the L. Aromatica. I also mailed a water sample out to Portal to have some testing done.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I've been following your thread......and while I know you have been battling the BBA, it looks to me like you are doing a heck of a lot right. 

All in all looks like a beautifully presented tank with plants that are growing well. 

I know you are focused on the problems, but I think most people would love to have a tank that looks like that. 

I look forward to seeing more updates and following your progress.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Greggz said:


> I've been following your thread......and while I know you have been battling the BBA, it looks to me like you are doing a heck of a lot right.
> 
> All in all looks like a beautifully presented tank with plants that are growing well.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot. If I could just get rid of the BBA, then I'd have nothing to complain about.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Are you spot dosing the metricide or just water column dosing?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Opare said:


> Are you spot dosing the metricide or just water column dosing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both, this green version seems to be much harder to kill.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Nlewis said:


> Both, this green version seems to be much harder to kill.


Yeah just keep trying it, and I'm sure you will see success! Maybe try H2O2 as well.
Tanks looks fantastic though.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Update time. 

Still trying to rid my tank of this BBA. With my last effort to kill it in the front carpet area the glut just absolutely nuked the MC. So today I pulled all the MC, vacuumed the substrate up front, and cleaned all my hoses from the filter which I haven't done since setting it up(they were nasty). With that I also trimmed off all infected leaves on the AR mini and pretty much ditched almost all of the Arcuata as the lower portions had a lot of BBA. The only plant I can see the have any remaining is the Aromatica which I have to let grow out a bit so I can top it. Although I do have a couple of stems located in a low tech 20g I could put in there and ditch what's currently there. 

Within the next few weeks I'm planning some changes which include:

- switching over to T5's
- adding a ph controller
- going back to DHG which I had success with previously


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Well my patience wore too thin and it's a clean slate again. Gave all my plants to a buddy and made this tank into a biotope. I'm going for more of a blackwater look and will be trying to get a dark tannined water. I wish I had some big pieces of spider wood but I wasn't about to shell out $100 if not more on wood, so I worked with what I have. 

The co2 system is still plumbed in and I plan on using it but at a lower rate. Not sure whether I should use ferts or not because all I'm really using now is swords and val. I guess if I do I'll do a 1/4 of EI recommendation. 

Tank is currently housing all South American fish which include, neons of course, rummynose, oto's and orange laser cories. It will soon house a trio of Apistogramma Agassizii Fire Reds.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

This is gonna be cool. I like the wood, should make for happy Apistos!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Just got home from the grind and the tank looks a lot better today. The water cleared up from the sand and the tannins have started to kick in. Was thinking about it earlier today and I need some more fish. Yesterday I rehomed a 2 pair of Apistos, 10 ember tetras, 8 cpds and about 6-8 amano shrimp. I think I want to do a larger group of cories and I'm going to look for maybe 5-6 pandas.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

I like the mix of fish. Looking forward to seeing how this tank matures!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> I like the mix of fish. Looking forward to seeing how this tank matures!


It's crazy, I've had all the fish in this tank for almost a year and since I changed it up they are so much more active. I love it, I used to never see my neons and now they're out all the time. Need to up the amount of cories in the tank asap.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Yes! I live biotopes!

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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

@Nlewis you are a mystery to me. The pictures of your tank from just a month ago looked pretty darn good. Was the battle with the BBA just too much?

That being said, I like the new concept and will be interested to see how your new vision turns out. 

Just curious, are you using the same lights at the same intensity? I would assume you are going with a lower light level now, or I'd be concerned about BBA and worse. Looking forward to more updates.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Greggz said:


> @Nlewis you are a mystery to me. The pictures of your tank from just a month ago looked pretty darn good. Was the battle with the BBA just too much?
> 
> That being said, I like the new concept and will be interested to see how your new vision turns out.
> 
> Just curious, are you using the same lights at the same intensity? I would assume you are going with a lower light level now, or I'd be concerned about BBA and worse. Looking forward to more updates.


Yeah the BBA was coming back tenfold no matter what I did. For whatever reason that green version I had was almost unkillable. 

I removed the Beamswork fixture and am just using the Fluval 2.0 now. It is however dimmed to about 60% and I raised it about 6 inches or so. 

I think this setup will be a whole lot less work and I love Apistos so it seemed like a good fit. So far I love it, it just seems so natural versus the "scaped" tank. I can't wait to see how fast Amazon swords grow with co2.

Found this earlier and thought it was a pretty good read. 
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/all-the-leaves-are-brown/#more-277617


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Well my goods came in today from Tannin Aquatics and I got 3 different types of pods. Some of them are currently soaking in hot water and I'll throw them in tomorrow.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

I've had all of those, except for the estalo. jungle and savu are probably my fishes' favorites. My plecs love the savu, and the cories are always taking a siesta in the jungle.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> I've had all of those, except for the estalo. jungle and savu are probably my fishes' favorites. My plecs love the savu, and the cories are always taking a siesta in the jungle.


Sweet, I'm hoping to add some more cories soon. There's an auction on Sunday I'll be attending and maybe I'll pick some up as there are quite a few listed for auction already. I really want some pandas but they have none on there so far.


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## pennfisherman (Jan 18, 2011)

Beautiful tanks! 

When you had the tank planted where did you buy your plants from?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

pennfisherman said:


> Beautiful tanks!
> 
> When you had the tank planted where did you buy your plants from?


Most of the plants were purchased from @burr740 and others I already had.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I'd keep some unplanted substrate for the corys, they can seem to get annoyed by too much plants to struggle trough.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I am, I'll keep the front pretty much how it is now.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Not too much going on here. I started dosing today and added a Green Ozelot sword. My Apistos have been ordered and I'll pick them up next Saturday.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

@longgonedaddy what do you think? I'm ordering my fish to be picked up on Saturday, do I do panda or habrosus cories?

I can't decide and of the 2 ive only kept pandas.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

You know what? I say go for the Pygmy. Solves two problems 1. You get cories. 2. They likely won't hassle the apistos' breeding.

Ok, while I was typing, you changed it! Hasbrosus, obviously, would be my edited answer.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> You know what? I say go for the Pygmy. Solves two problems 1. You get cories. 2. They likely won't hassle the apistos' breeding.
> 
> Ok, while I was typing, you changed it! Hasbrosus, obviously, would be my edited answer.


Lol, oils to wait and I ordered 10 Hasbrosus already


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Lol, oils to wait and I ordered 10 Hasbrosus already


Cool! I've thought about getting a school of them, but I worry about the angel finding them to be a Perfect snacking size.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Did my first water change today of about 20%' didn't want to affect the tannins to much. My fish order was delayed due to snow out west so I should have them this week. On a side note I was pleasantly suprised to find eggs in the tank today when the lights came on. I'm guessing they're Cory eggs due to their size and they are scattered about the tank glass. I counted around 23 of them.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

yeah, looks like Cory eggs, nice!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> yeah, looks like Cory eggs, nice!


Too bad I just looked at the tank and most are gone. Seems the female Apisto has been eating them all day, damnit!!!


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Yeah, keep a guppy breeding net on the back wall of the tank, scrape any future eggs off the glass with a sharp blade. or when found on small leaves, you can just cut the leaf off and chuck it in the net.
Throw a bunch of moss or plants in the net (useful for scraping eggs off on), as well as providing a home for some micro food the small fry can eat. They can eat BBS from a pretty small size and as they get bigger you can switch to a powdered food. The adult corys will keep the net clean by sucking any uneaten food through the bottom.

The trick with the eggs is that they need a little time to harden or they will just burst when you try and lift them. But as long as they are there, they can be eaten. I simply move the net over the eggs, and give them about 45 minutes or so to harden first. 

Their eggs are quite hardy and you don't have to bother removing fungused eggs. Healthy eggs will get darker as they ripen.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

Wow, what a different change but yes I love it!

I'm doing a high light 40g as well and I've always wanted to just tear it all up and do a biotope such as this. I know I'm battling BBA too so i'm very tempted


and it's true. right now all my tetras except for the rummies are always hiding from the high light but I'm sure if I did something with tannins and med/low light then they'll probably be more acive and swim around, i'm sure they'll breed more often too 

and yeah, doing a whole SA biotope with swords, leaf litter, and simple plants would be really rewarding as well.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Nordic said:


> Yeah, keep a guppy breeding net on the back wall of the tank, scrape any future eggs off the glass with a sharp blade. or when found on small leaves, you can just cut the leaf off and chuck it in the net.
> Throw a bunch of moss or plants in the net (useful for scraping eggs off on), as well as providing a home for some micro food the small fry can eat. They can eat BBS from a pretty small size and as they get bigger you can switch to a powdered food. The adult corys will keep the net clean by sucking any uneaten food through the bottom.
> 
> The trick with the eggs is that they need a little time to harden or they will just burst when you try and lift them. But as long as they are there, they can be eaten. I simply move the net over the eggs, and give them about 45 minutes or so to harden first.
> ...


Was perusing Amazon the other night and picked up an external breeder box and air pump in case they lay again.

Bump:


monkeyruler90 said:


> Wow, what a different change but yes I love it!
> 
> I'm doing a high light 40g as well and I've always wanted to just tear it all up and do a biotope such as this. I know I'm battling BBA too so i'm very tempted
> 
> ...


It's definitely become my favorite tank already. It's so easy and there's no algae, just a lot of biofilm all over everything. I will definitely do another high light tank again but this style really jives with the fish I love to keep.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> I'm also looking into switching from led to t5's. I'm running into some issues finding a cost effective 4 bulb fixture. No one really makes a 3' fixture except ATI and I'm not paying $500 for a t5 fixture. It's looking like my only option would be to buy a 4' fixture and the light will overhang each side by 6 inches. Anyone have some suggestions?


Not sure if you're still looking for a 36" T5, but Catalina used to make them, maybe still do. 




Nlewis said:


> It's definitely become my favorite tank already. It's so easy and there's no algae, just a lot of biofilm all over everything. I will definitely do another high light tank again but this style really jives with the fish I love to keep.


Good to hear! Did the new fish come in yet?


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## terrapedes (Jul 5, 2013)

Water change with slightly cooler water will get the cories to breed if they are in the mood  I used a pipette to suck eggs of the glass and put them in a tank with red cherry shrimp, they didn't eat the eggs and I had way too many cories for a while 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Not sure if you're still looking for a 36" T5, but Catalina used to make them, maybe still do.
> Good to hear! Did the new fish come in yet?


Nope they haven't arrived as of yet. Also no to the light, I just wanted to switch to fluorescent when the tank was all high tech.

Bump:


terrapedes said:


> Water change with slightly cooler water will get the cories to breed if they are in the mood  I used a pipette to suck eggs of the glass and put them in a tank with red cherry shrimp, they didn't eat the eggs and I had way too many cories for a while
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's a really good idea with sticking them in the shrimp tank.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Nlewis said:


> Was perusing Amazon the other night and picked up an external breeder box and air pump in case they lay again.


Don't use that, the reason for a net box is that the fry have access to the larger clean body of water of the tank, and the adult fish can clean the uneaten food through the net from the bottom.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Nordic said:


> Don't use that, the reason for a net box is that the fry have access to the larger clean body of water of the tank, and the adult fish can clean the uneaten food through the net from the bottom.


Why, it's an external unit that uses air to pump water though it from the main tank.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Uneaten food and excrement will collect on the bottom. Do not underestimate the value of adult fish being able to clean the pen by sucking stuff through the net. Those boxes are great for keeping fish with injuries etc. in, to protect them from tank mates.


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## doinkmobb (May 12, 2010)

Nlewis said:


> Not too much going on here. I started dosing today and added a Green Ozelot sword. My Apistos have been ordered and I'll pick them up next Saturday.


Very cool. Nice to see another Amazon biotope. You probably don't want to block out too much light for the sword, but some frogbit or red root floaters would provide some shady atmosphere to the tank. I have a 75 gallon blackwater setup myself, and I like to keep it shaded and messy, BUT my swords withered and died after a few months. All I have now is Brazilian pennywort at the surface. It's a compromise, but I honestly think my fish are more active and happier due to reduced lighting. 

You mentioned wanting a 36" T5 fixture? Check this out - Sunblaster 36" T5
I have the 48" version along with a 36" Finnex Stingray LED. The Sunblaster is the best bang for the buck that I've found. The Finnex doesn't do a whole lot besides add a tiny bit of shimmer


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

doinkmobb said:


> Very cool. Nice to see another Amazon biotope. You probably don't want to block out too much light for the sword, but some frogbit or red root floaters would provide some shady atmosphere to the tank. I have a 75 gallon blackwater setup myself, and I like to keep it shaded and messy, BUT my swords withered and died after a few months. All I have now is Brazilian pennywort at the surface. It's a compromise, but I honestly think my fish are more active and happier due to reduced lighting.
> 
> You mentioned wanting a 36" T5 fixture? Check this out - Sunblaster 36" T5
> I have the 48" version along with a 36" Finnex Stingray LED. The Sunblaster is the best bang for the buck that I've found. The Finnex doesn't do a whole lot besides add a tiny bit of shimmer


No need for the T5 at this time, I wanted it for the high light setup before I changed to the biotope. Swords are doing pretty well and I'm only running my light at maybe 50% with just a small amount of frogbit floating around. I've been looking actually for some RRF but haven't gotten my hands on any yet.

Oh and I just checked out your 75, and you're doing way better than I am. I just wish I had better wood, but couldn't bring my self to spend gobs of Monet on spider wood.


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## doinkmobb (May 12, 2010)

Nlewis said:


> No need for the T5 at this time, I wanted it for the high light setup before I changed to the biotope. Swords are doing pretty well and I'm only running my light at maybe 50% with just a small amount of frogbit floating around. I've been looking actually for some RRF but haven't gotten my hands on any yet.


Ah OK, I just read that post. I think I remember seeing somebody in a Southeast regional forum that had some RRF for sale. 



Nlewis said:


> Oh and I just checked out your 75, and you're doing way better than I am. I just wish I had better wood, but couldn't bring my self to spend gobs of Monet on spider wood.


Eh, it takes time. Mine looked a little barren and tidy before I slowly filled it in with more wood and more leaves, and the pennywort overgrowth adds a nice touch. Then everything needs time to decay to look more natural. I actually collected 90% of my wood, there was a freshly fallen tree in the woods across the street and I pulled off tangled, rooty pieces, rinsed and scrubbed them with a wire brush and chucked 'em in.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So I picked up my new fish today. The cories I ordered didn't arrive but I picked up 6 corydoras elegans in their place. The Apistos are sub adults and I'm not sure if I have a pair or 2 females yet, so we'll see. Also got some star grass and to stick in here and see how it does.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Nice find. They are quite weird looking cory's. Notice how they have very shallow bodies and the eyes are in the "wrong" place, compared to others.
They will do well on most of the protein rich pellets. Oh, and you will notice they swim at the top of the tank, unlike their family members.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Nordic said:


> Nice find. They are quite weird looking cory's. Notice how they have very shallow bodies and the eyes are in the "wrong" place, compared to others.
> They will do well on most of the protein rich pellets. Oh, and you will notice they swim at the top of the tank, unlike their family members.


Since Ive had them they've actually stayed at the substrate level so far.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Everything is doing awesome so here's some random pics. FYI I'm no photographer and I have no clue what I'm doing with my wife's camera:wink2:.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Love the first pic of the Cory!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Love the first pic of the Cory!


Well here's some I forgot to add. Pictures don't do these fish justice due to the tannins.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Well here's some I forgot to add. Pictures don't do these fish justice due to the tannins.


Yeah, I found that my poor photo skills are made even worse because of the tannins. 

I see you're using coco fiber. I was asking someone else about it in the apisto thread, as I think I'd like to work it into my setup, too. What type do you buy? I imagine not the ones for planting. Do you get the stuff packaged for terrariums and such?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Yeah, I found that my poor photo skills are made even worse because of the tannins.
> 
> I see you're using coco fiber. I was asking someone else about it in the apisto thread, as I think I'd like to work it into my setup, too. What type do you buy? I imagine not the ones for planting. Do you get the stuff packaged for terrariums and such?


I didn't buy it, it was the padding Tannin Aquatics used in the box of goods I bought.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> I didn't buy it, it was the padding Tannin Aquatics used in the box of goods I bought.


Ah thanks. I've been putting it out for the birds to use as nesting material. Going to keep a bit for the fish this time.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Ah thanks. I've been putting it out for the birds to use as nesting material. Going to keep a bit for the fish this time.


Lmao!!!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Just ordered 8 panda cories, I may have to start rehoming fish because this will push me to 50!!!


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Oh my lord I love this journal so much lol


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Just ordered 8 panda cories, I may have to start rehoming fish because this will push me to 50!!!


Pffft. Just do more water changes! Like 25% twice a day, every day. :surprise: :grin2:


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Pffft. Just do more water changes! Like 25% twice a day, every day. :surprise: :grin2:


That just sounds like work, which is the exact opposite of what this tank is😉.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Lowered my light today to directly on top of the tank and it's now running at 100%. The light was initially raised 6 inches which created a ton of light spill. Since doing this the tank looks a lot better as it creates some dark spots. The picture doesn't do it justice as the iPad is picking up to much light.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

I found the same thing, my tank looks so much better with the light closer to it, the shadows become so much nicer and intense. Also light spill on the wall gives a white and washed out look too.
Eventhough, you say the picture doesn't do it justice I think an improvement is definitely noticeable!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Just be careful when mixing pandas with other corys, they don't exactly avoid hybridizing.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Nordic said:


> Just be careful when mixing pandas with other corys, they don't exactly avoid hybridizing.


Awesome, I like hybrids. 

I came down last night to find that one of the female fire reds had spawned. She was guarding a Savu pod and beating the crap out of the cories that came near it. Today she's hunkered in the pod fan her eggs.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> I came down last night to find that one of the female fire reds had spawned. She was guarding a Savu pod and beating the crap out of the cories that came near it. Today she's hunkered in the pod fan her eggs.


Pics or it didn't happen. >


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Lmao, not much to see she's just hanging out in the pod fanning some eggs. Cool thing though, after watching them today I think there might be several spawns going on as there lots of aggression from the other females who are camped out in newly set up areas. I've bread Apistos before and the females of all the species act the same when spawning and become very protective of their area.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Lmao, not much to see she's just hanging out in the pod fanning some eggs. Cool thing though, after watching them today I think there might be several spawns going on as there lots of aggression from the other females who are camped out in newly set up areas. I've bread Apistos before and the females of all the species act the same when spawning and become very protective of their area.


Hey, you challenged me to pics first! 

Cool to hear that you're getting maybe multiple spawns! 

Also, interesting to see her savu pod, its more conical than the ones I have, mine are more oval. That's the beauty of natural variety, I guess. Are they the estalo pods in front? They closed up?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Hey, you challenged me to pics first!
> 
> Cool to hear that you're getting maybe multiple spawns!
> 
> Also, interesting to see her savu pod, its more conical than the ones I have, mine are more oval. That's the beauty of natural variety, I guess. Are they the estalo pods in front? They closed up?


Yep they're estalo pods and I'm not sure why they are closed. If I recall correctly they were closed when I put them in the tank. I just looked at the remaining 5 I have not used yet and they are open. Looking at them now, I wonder how well acorns will work?


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Yep they're estalo pods and I'm not sure why they are closed. If I recall correctly they were closed when I put them in the tank. I just looked at the remaining 5 I have not used yet and they are open. Looking at them now, I wonder how well acorns will work?


Thanks. On the tannin aquatics website, they're noted to possibly close when wet. I think the acorn caps would work, but the nut itself might be an issue. Might leak too many nutrients, or even maybe start sprouting. Although plecos might love them!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Thanks. On the tannin aquatics website, they're noted to possibly close when wet. I think the acorn caps would work, but the nut itself might be an issue. Might leak too many nutrients, or even maybe start sprouting. Although plecos might love them!


Sprouting!!! I don't know about you, but I think having an oak tree in my aquarium would be badass.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Sprouting!!! I don't know about you, but I thing having an oak tree in my aquarium would be badass.


I'd prefer a Moriche palm! Biotope-y badassness!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Got my days mixed up and missed picking up my pandas yesterday, so it looks like it will be next weekend. Stargrass is coming in better than I expected and I'm gonna start ditching some of the floaters. Did a water change today and the tannins have been reduced some, so more leaves will be going in.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

What's leading you to removing the floaters?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> What's leading you to removing the floaters?


Oh I just need to thin them out.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Oh I just need to thin them out.


Oh, that's always a good sign.


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## trinity ghost (Feb 5, 2017)

Awesome tank. I heard that leaves can make your water more acidic. Is this true??


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Nlewis said:


> Got my days mixed up and missed picking up my pandas yesterday, so it looks like it will be next weekend. Stargrass is coming in better than I expected and I'm gonna start ditching some of the floaters. Did a water change today and the tannins have been reduced some, so more leaves will be going in.


That really startled me for a moment. At first, I thought you meant that you missed signing for your package at the front door. And that you intend to leave them at the post office until next weekend.

Now I see you probably ordered them to a store...


Great looking biotope. Can you smell the tannin?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Bananableps said:


> That really startled me for a moment. At first, I thought you meant that you missed signing for your package at the front door. And that you intend to leave them at the post office until next weekend.
> 
> Now I see you probably ordered them to a store...
> 
> Great looking biotope. Can you smell the tannin?


Lol, there is a guy local here that basically runs a fish store out of his basement and is affiliated with the local club. He puts out preorder lists almost monthly where can order almost anything. 

You can definitely smell the tannins if you're close to the aquarium but it doesn't stink up the room or anything.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Panda alert!!!


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

panda corys are amazing tbh


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

While at the auction picking up my fish I also got some plants. I got some Brazilian Pennywort and unknowingly bought some red root floaters from @Maryland Guppy.

Bump:


BettaBettas said:


> panda corys are amazing tbh


Oh yeah they're my favorite when it comes to personality.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Stargrass is starting to go bonkers.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Stargrass is starting to go bonkers.


Tank looks great! 

I've been toying with adding stargrass. I might have to relieve you of your trimmings. :laugh2:


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Tank looks great!
> 
> I've been toying with adding stargrass. I might have to relieve you of your trimmings. :laugh2:


I could send you some, but will need to make in the next couple weeks. I'm leaving for Germany soon for 3 months and the wife will most likely kill everything before I return.


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## JEFF9922 (May 8, 2013)

I would take some star grass too if you are gonna get rid of some .


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

When you prune stargrass it obviously sends off more new growth right? Could I be able to make like a dense, but tall, basically bush out of it? I have seen stargrass all around lately on the forums, seems to be the new glosso lol


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

BettaBettas said:


> When you prune stargrass it obviously sends off more new growth right? Could I be able to make like a dense, but tall, basically bush out of it? I have seen stargrass all around lately on the forums, seems to be the new glosso lol


Yes, it's a stem plant so new growth will sprout where you cut it. Under high light it looks better as it will tend to stay more bushy and compact. Mine grows so tall due to the lower levels caused by the tannins.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Star grass is still killing it. I need to find an easier way to boost the tannins for the wife to do while I'm gone. I might have to buy the extract for her to use.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Just have her drop in a few leaves every few days. Or is that too much for her? I know I would get all sorts of protest from my wife, for asking more than feeding.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice blackwater setup, working on mine right now.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Just have her drop in a few leaves every few days. Or is that too much for her? I know I would get all sorts of protest from my wife, for asking more than feeding.


Oh it's gonna be awesome. Just having her try and change the water in the apisto grow out tank every few days will be a chore and a half.

Bump:


Craigthor said:


> Nice blackwater setup, working on mine right now.


Thanks a lot. It's really not where I would have liked it mainly due to I would rather have different wood. On the other hand I love it, it's so simplistic and natural.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Oh it's gonna be awesome. Just having her try and change the water in the apisto grow out tank every few days will be a chore and a half.


Oh man, I'd figure out an autochanger before asking for that! You're brave!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Oh man, I'd figure out an autochanger before asking for that! You're brave!


Completely forgot I bought a bag of peat moss for tannins.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Perfect! I have pelleted peat, just in case. I should have offered to send some to you!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Perfect! I have pelleted peat, just in case. I should have offered to send some to you!


Didn't know they existed, do they work well? Seems like they would make much less of a mess.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Didn't know they existed, do they work well? Seems like they would make much less of a mess.


Yes, I've used it a lot in the past. Works well. Sera and fluval both make pelleted peat. Probably more expensive pound for pound than the gardening variety, but super convenient.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

It is probably cheaper than the sleeved peat moss you get for aquariums.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Did a big water change today with knowing I'll potentially be leaving the country on Friday. The tanks a lot brighter now and I don't like it, I put some peat in pantyhose and it didn't work out to well. It was like I threw in a bunch of loose dirt in the tank and it was floating around everywhere. 

I topped all the star grass and moved the sword closer to the front because the grass is growing so fast it's chocking the light out and covering the swords.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Don't worry about the loose peat, it will sink sooner or later, or get pulled into the filter.


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## Jmcdaniel0 (Feb 14, 2017)

Just finished your thread. I like the two previous tries, but I love the biotope look. I keep saltwater reef tanks, and I decided awhile back I wanted a planted tank and immediately I thought black water. Seeing your tank, makes that much more excited. I am just know adding in stuff for my aquascape and added a few catappa leaves in. Ill be ordering from Tannin Aquatics once my spider wood shows up.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Jmcdaniel0 said:


> Just finished your thread. I like the two previous tries, but I love the biotope look. I keep saltwater reef tanks, and I decided awhile back I wanted a planted tank and immediately I thought black water. Seeing your tank, makes that much more excited. I am just know adding in stuff for my aquascape and added a few catappa leaves in. Ill be ordering from Tannin Aquatics once my spider wood shows up.


Awesome, start a journal when you get going. I have a ton of IAL, but I actually prefer oak leaves instead. They breakdown a lot slower than the almond leaves and they're also free.


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## Jmcdaniel0 (Feb 14, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Awesome, start a journal when you get going. I have a ton of IAL, but I actually prefer oak leaves instead. They breakdown a lot slower than the almond leaves and they're also free.



I have been getting everything together for awhile. Here is my tanks journal so far

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1129994-jmcdaniels-40b-tank-build.html

Bump:


Nlewis said:


> Awesome, start a journal when you get going. I have a ton of IAL, but I actually prefer oak leaves instead. They breakdown a lot slower than the almond leaves and they're also free.



I have been getting everything together for awhile. Here is my tanks journal so far

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1129994-jmcdaniels-40b-tank-build.html


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

bobriley2345 said:


> Looking for apistogramma uapesi... anyone know of someone who is selling?


Good luck finding them, they're not very common. You may be better off looking into some similar looking Apistos like the Elizabethae or maybe the Mendezi.


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

Why cant my tank look like that! (The original high tech dutch layout)
What is behind the abnormally huge blyxa?
GIVE ME YOUR KNOWLEDGE, I just started a new journal, and I was proud of my tank, until this burst my bubble. (Yes, its the 55g in the sig)


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

sohankpatel said:


> Why cant my tank look like that! (The original high tech dutch layout)
> What is behind the abnormally huge blyxa?
> GIVE ME YOUR KNOWLEDGE, I just started a new journal, and I was proud of my tank, until this burst my bubble. (Yes, its the 55g in the sig)


Lol, I don't know it just grew like crazy. I think it can be a finicky plant, as I've read that several people can't grow it well at all even in high tech tanks. I would routinely pull out 20-30 stems and throw them out the back door.

Bump:


bobriley2345 said:


> I have both Elizabethae and Mendezi, and just found Uapesi!


Well if that's the case, them you need to show them in this other thread. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/149-photography/1107058-show-me-your-apisto-ill-show-you-mine.html


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

A few shots


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Great pics! That stargrass is thick, and I love the picture of the neons (cardinals?) hanging out in it.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

again im loving that stargrass. The pandas look great to! I just got another one today lmao addiction?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Great pics! That stargrass is thick, and I love the picture of the neons (cardinals?) hanging out in it.


Wild green neons, there is a one cardinal mixed in there from when I bought the greens. Dude, the stargrass grows out of control, I just topped it all and replanted 5 days ago.

Bump:


BettaBettas said:


> again im loving that stargrass. The pandas look great to! I just got another one today lmao addiction?


Doesn't everyone love pandas?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

She's guarding eggs


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So I've been in Germany for 2 days now. I FaceTimed the wife last night to walk her through feeding the 5 tanks i have. I'm most certain now with that experience that most of my tanks will be an utter S-show by the time i return.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

lol


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> So I've been in Germany for 2 days now. I FaceTimed the wife last night to walk her through feeding the 5 tanks i have. I'm most certain now with that experience that most of my tanks will be an utter S-show by the time i return.


I usually go out of town every weekend, and my parents feed and dose my tank. Usually when I come back it's a cloudy mess with snails all over. I feel you, lol!

Sent from my Moto Z using Tapatalk


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> So I've been in Germany for 2 days now. I FaceTimed the wife last night to walk her through feeding the 5 tanks i have. I'm most certain now with that experience that most of my tanks will be an utter S-show by the time i return.


Uh oh...


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

And i now have Apisto fry i cant attend too.

https://youtu.be/bkZ2BnCk9zs


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## JEFF9922 (May 8, 2013)

They are so cute , you should send me some once my tank is ready maybe they will be big enough . I hate buying fish from online people I don't know so someone on here I would be cool with 

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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

JEFF9922 said:


> They are so cute , you should send me some once my tank is ready maybe they will be big enough . I hate buying fish from online people I don't know so someone on here I would be cool with
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Chances are they wont make it in there with the green neons and rummynose in there, mom can only do so much. I'll most likely move the pair to a smaller tank and breed them when I get back home in 2 months. You can check out the link below and you'll see the triple reds I've been growing out for months. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/149-photography/1107058-show-me-your-apisto-ill-show-you-mine.html


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Oooh, they are cute I must agree  sadly I have never had fish fry, I haven't really "tried yet" but I haven't had a large to do so in. Im getting one soon so Nlewis wish me luck for making babys! lol
Anyway glad your stuff is all good


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Lmao, it's always fun making babies.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Lmao, it's always fun making babies.


 irl only when there isn't a baby :help:
stay safe kids.


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Thanks a lot, here's how it's looking today. Waiting for it to fill in sucks.


Sweet!!!:grin2:


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

Those apisto's are adorably cutely pretty


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

StrungOut said:


> Those apisto's are adorably cutely pretty


Hopefully some of them make it. Mom has moved them to the back right corner where there's a ton of leaf litter. It also looks like another female has spawned in the same pod as the original female.


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## dbl_dbl17 (Feb 4, 2012)

Now with those tannins it is really looking legit!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Tank is doing well other than some plants are overgrown as well as my other tanks. Water lettuce in my 55 became so dense a lot of plants died due to lack of light.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm back stateside after 3 months, update coming soon.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Here we go. I came back home last week and the tank was just a mess. The star grass was super overgrown and somehow I got Ricia into the tank and there was a giant mass of it floating in the tank. I've been slowly adding leaves to the tank over the past week due to the lack of tannins and most of the leaf litter has deteriorated away. @longgonedaddy contacted me and we are trading some plants, I'm excited.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Shipping tomorrow!


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Nlewis said:


> . The star grass was super overgrown and somehow I got Ricia into the tank and there was a giant mass of it floating in the tank.



This actually sounds super interesting, I was hoping we'd get a picture of the tank as it was when you got home. Even if the tannins weren't as strong I bet that Riccia mat helped keep the tank dim! Haha! I hate that stuff, let it tank over my 55 one time & lost a ton of plants bc it got so dark! I'd rather Duckweed than Riccia, & that is saying a hell of a lot! [emoji23] 

How are your fish doing? I hope everyone survived your absence! If not, well these things happen to us all. 

I continually checked to see if you had posted new pictures from your wife. Glad you back to regularly inspire me for the upcoming blackwater build! 



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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> This actually sounds super interesting, I was hoping we'd get a picture of the tank as it was when you got home. Even if the tannins weren't as strong I bet that Riccia mat helped keep the tank dim! Haha! I hate that stuff, let it tank over my 55 one time & lost a ton of plants bc it got so dark! I'd rather Duckweed than Riccia, & that is saying a hell of a lot! [emoji23]
> 
> How are your fish doing? I hope everyone survived your absence! If not, well these things happen to us all.
> 
> ...


I lost multiple fish in all my tanks. I also lost a lot of plant species due to floating plants choking out the light. 

On a side note, I missed these dudes.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Nlewis said:


> I lost multiple fish in all my tanks. I also lost a lot of plant species due to floating plants choking out the light.




I'm sorry to hear that. I'd be happy to send you some plants if I've got something specific you're looking for after losing it. Just let me know.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So this is why you should never give up on plants because they can be super resilient. The picture below is of a Rosette Sword I planted roughly 6 months ago when the boot opened was started. The plant was immersed grown and purchased from Petsmart. Within a few days it died and turned completely brown. I left it in the tank all this time because, well it's a biotope. Looking closely you can see it has new growth, which is crazy.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

What do I do with this sword. It's aggressively taking over the tank and becoming massive. I'm afraid to move it to another tank that doesn't have Co2 because I think it will just melt away.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

I don't think you have to worry about the sword not adjusting to a non CO2 tank. My exoerience with them is that once they get to certain size, and with a big root structure, they are unstoppable.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> I don't think you have to worry about the sword not adjusting to a non CO2 tank. My exoerience with them is that once they get to certain size, and with a big root structure, they are unstoppable.


We may see soon. I've never been able to get a sword this big, it sits right in front of the spray bar, so it's getting all the Co2 it wants. I could take it over and shove it in my old mans 110 and see what happens.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> We may see soon. I've never been able to get a sword this big, it sits right in front of the spray bar, so it's getting all the Co2 it wants. I could take it over and shove it in my old mans 110 and see what happens.


I had one take over my old 65, with no CO2. Huge. The longest leaves were closing in on 30" and the spread, would have been more, if it weren't for the sides of the aquarium.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That's the coolest looking biotyoe I've seen.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> That's the coolest looking biotyoe I've seen.


Thanks, but it's not looking so hot IMO right now. The sword was rehomed to a much longer tank and to me makes it look empty now. 

Also, it's looking like a clear water boot open instead of a black water. While I was overseas I pretty much lost all my tannins and now I'm struggling to get them back. I need some ideas from the biotope peeps out there. I've added oak and catappa leaves to no avail. I also tried peat moss in some stockings and all that seems to do is make the water dirty with fine debris.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Life's been crazy the last few years, but my wife and I would go to our place in the mountains in TN and have some drinks and go driftwood hunting. It's up there with some of our most extravagant trips and it was free. I got some pretty crazy looking Driftwood and no matter how much I cleaned it it would always stay in the tank or at least six weeks or so. You have any areas near you with driftwood?

In fact I'm going to see if my wife would go with me tomorrow and go to the dog beach and see what we find. You can never have too much driftwood.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Life's been crazy the last few years, but my wife and I would go to our place in the mountains in TN and have some drinks and go driftwood hunting. It's up there with some of our most extravagant trips and it was free. I got some pretty crazy looking Driftwood and no matter how much I cleaned it it would always stay in the tank or at least six weeks or so. You have any areas near you with driftwood?


Oh yeah, I go kayak fishing all the time and was on the Shenandoah river this weekend. There's actually 4 good pieces of wood in there already and I'm not ready to add anymore now. I may when I redo the tank but that may be awhile. I'm about to dump some more botanicals and leaves in it right now.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

If you want quick tannins, catappa, wood, peat pellets and alder cones are your best bet. But, I've never really had any tannins go dark overnight,usually it's a gradual thing. 

Or....

Take that peat out, boil it, strain the particles, and pour the "tea" into the tank. Repeat until dark enough. Or the peat runs out.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> If you want quick tannins, catappa, wood, peat pellets and alder cones are your best bet. But, I've never really had any tannins go dark overnight,usually it's a gradual thing.
> 
> Or....
> 
> Take that peat out, boil it, strain the particles, and pour the "tea" into the tank. Repeat until dark enough. Or the peat runs out.


Or I just put tea bags in the tank😝


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Or I just put tea bags in the tank😝


I think member @Nordic does that.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Fire Red Apistogramma have been rehomed and it's now a Cacatuoides tank.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> The Fire Red Apistogramma have been rehomed and it's now a Cacatuoides tank.


Now that you've had a few weeks to tend to it, is the tank recovering from your absence?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Now that you've had a few weeks to tend to it, is the tank recovering from your absence?


Definitely, the plants and fish love having their normal caretaker here. I'm still struggling to get the tannins where I want them though. The whole Caca tank thing has already changed and I will have some panduro's here by the weekend.

Oh and it's getting darker in there.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Panduro's are in and loving their new home thanks to @TropicalAquarist. Not much really changing here it's just chugging along.


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## curry (Jul 19, 2017)

Loving this tank!! Subscribed!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So stocking in this tank will be changing a bit more. I went to the local club auction today and scored on some fish I've been wanting. I picked up 12 Nannostomus Mortenthaleri also none as Coral Red Pencil fish for $12. I will be moving in the next few weeks, so they will be housed in a 20g until the tank is moved and I rehome some of the current inhabitants. Last time I saw these fish for sale they were going for over $10 a fish.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Oh hell yes!! I love my Pencilfish! You definitely scored those at an incredible price! Can't wait to see yours once they're finally in this tank! What fish will you be rehoming elsewhere?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> Oh hell yes!! I love my Pencilfish! You definitely scored those at an incredible price! Can't wait to see yours once they're finally in this tank! What fish will you be rehoming elsewhere?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The green neons and rummynose tetras. I should have bought the other bag of 10 that went for $14. It's a seldom seen fish and I think most people there didn't know that.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm going to pick up 2 females for my apisto Caucatoides and move one pair to the lower 75. I want to do another pair in each 75... I was thinking another Apisto in the top 75 and then a different dwarf in the bottom 75. What is another colorful hardy Apisto for the top tank? And any recommendations for the bottom??
How are your 2 pairs getting along?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm going to pick up 2 females for my apisto Caucatoides and move one pair to the lower 75. I want to do another pair in each 75... I was thinking another Apisto in the top 75 and then a different dwarf in the bottom 75. What is another colorful hardy Apisto for the top tank? And any recommendations for the bottom??
> How are your 2 pairs getting along?


Did you look through my apisto thread and get some ideas? I haven't had any apistos that weren't hardy, so I wouldn't worry about that. The only ones that may be abbot sensitive are the wild caught ones. 

Panduro's are doing great although there is abbot of aggression at times due to there is only one female. I'm in the process of sourcing 2 more females.


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## D.Farci (Mar 15, 2016)

Hey NLewis, been following this infrequently for a while. Which species of Val are you using? I bought some Italian Val and the runners are maximum 2-4 leaves at 1-3" each - pretty pathetic. I can't seem to get them to grow tall like I want them. Other plants are fine, and I'm dosing Excel which I have heard kills Val...any input?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Did you look through my apisto thread and get some ideas? I haven't had any apistos that weren't hardy, so I wouldn't worry about that. The only ones that may be abbot sensitive are the wild caught ones.
> 
> Panduro's are doing great although there is abbot of aggression at times due to there is only one female. I'm in the process of sourcing 2 more females.


My brain is a jumbled mess thank you for the reminder. I'll check it out again now. In the photography section right?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> My brain is a jumbled mess thank you for the reminder. I'll check it out again now. In the photography section right?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/149-photography/1107058-show-me-your-apisto-ill-show-you-mine.html


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## finfan (Jun 16, 2008)

love your biotope look, I was thinking of that for my new 120 gallon, love your corydora school


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

D.Farci said:


> Hey NLewis, been following this infrequently for a while. Which species of Val are you using? I bought some Italian Val and the runners are maximum 2-4 leaves at 1-3" each - pretty pathetic. I can't seem to get them to grow tall like I want them. Other plants are fine, and I'm dosing Excel which I have heard kills Val...any input?


Leopard Val, it has spots throughout the leaves. Give it time, Val can be weird like that. Several times I've planted Val it did the same thing, sent out runners and never grew tall. It stayed like that for months and then one day just exploded. Excel will melt Val's. Don't do the full dose for the tank, start small and increase the dosage every few days or by the week until you get to the recommended dose.

Bump:


finfan said:


> love your biotope look, I was thinking of that for my new 120 gallon, love your corydora school


Thanks. If you've never done a biotope, try it out. I love it, it's probably my favorite tank and I embrace algae in it.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Any pics of the Panduro's?? I'll be able to do the final stocking (some female Caucatoides and whichever other pair I choose) next week I hope. I'm seriously entertaining the idea of a 8 foot Apisto community tank. If this 75 goes well I'm going to go BIG community planted Apisto tank!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Any pics of the Panduro's?? I'll be able to do the final stocking (some female Caucatoides and whichever other pair I choose) next week I hope. I'm seriously entertaining the idea of a 8 foot Apisto community tank. If this 75 goes well I'm going to go BIG community planted Apisto tank!


Yeah here's one. You can't really grasp the beauty of these fish with this picture. Due to the tannins in the water it hides the awesome blue hue of their body.


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## D.Farci (Mar 15, 2016)

Thanks for the response! I also forgot to ask how you recommend treating the oak leaves you collect. I plan on gathering a bunch this fall in Oregon (most likely residential areas), so I want to be able to sanitize them and preserve them for months as I need them. 

I should try to upload a picture of my Peruvian biotope-ish tank. I've got a pair of Apistogramma eremnopyge that I'm hoping will get to know each other a little better, if you know what I mean. If fry do show up, I'll have to remove them because of all the tetras I have with them, but one step at a time.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

D.Farci said:


> Thanks for the response! I also forgot to ask how you recommend treating the oak leaves you collect. I plan on gathering a bunch this fall in Oregon (most likely residential areas), so I want to be able to sanitize them and preserve them for months as I need them.
> 
> I should try to upload a picture of my Peruvian biotope-ish tank. I've got a pair of Apistogramma eremnopyge that I'm hoping will get to know each other a little better, if you know what I mean. If fry do show up, I'll have to remove them because of all the tetras I have with them, but one step at a time.


I just keep them in a ziplock back until I need them. As far as putting in the tank, I just rinse the debris off and toss them in the tank.


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## D.Farci (Mar 15, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> I just keep them in a ziplock back until I need them. As far as putting in the tank, I just rinse the debris off and toss them in the tank.


So you don't boil them at all? Do you dry them flat or let them wrinkle? I just imagine keeping freshly fallen leaves for a while and then having them crumple to pieces.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

D.Farci said:


> So you don't boil them at all? Do you dry them flat or let them wrinkle? I just imagine keeping freshly fallen leaves for a while and then having them crumple to pieces.


I don't do anything to them other than pick them up and put them in a bag.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Any more pics of those Panduro's? It's hard to determine what these guys really will look like in the tank from photos on the internet. What species do you think would make the coolest contrast to the Caucatoides?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Any more pics of those Panduro's? It's hard to determine what these guys really will look like in the tank from photos on the internet. What species do you think would make the coolest contrast to the Caucatoides?


Not my video, but they look like this. 
https://youtu.be/EkWrBVgcLiM

My pics won't come out well do to the tannins. Another apisto you can look into are the Macmasteri. They however can be a bit more aggressive.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

This tank has officially become a clear water biotope as I just can't keep up with creating tannins. I'll be moving this week, so the tank will get torn down and when I set it back up I'll put an S-ton of new leaves in it. Good news is fall is coming and my free leaves are starting to fall off the trees already😝.


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## JEFF9922 (May 8, 2013)

Your tank looks great . Some times I miss the clear look but I cant seem to get mine to turn back clear haven't added any new leaves in over 3 months . The drift wood I have just keeps releasing more and more tannins. Its a realy old piece of wood.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I also like the clear water look. It's definitely not quite the same as the blackwater but shows that you have a nice scape. Good luck with the move!! I know you've got multiple tanks which is super stressful during a move!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> I also like the clear water look. It's definitely not quite the same as the blackwater but shows that you have a nice scape. Good luck with the move!! I know you've got multiple tanks which is super stressful during a move!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, it's going to suck.

Bump:


JEFF9922 said:


> Your tank looks great . Some times I miss the clear look but I cant seem to get mine to turn back clear haven't added any new leaves in over 3 months . The drift wood I have just keeps releasing more and more tannins. Its a realy old piece of wood.


Yeah, I want your problem with never ending tannins.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Are you still running the same filter & powerhead setup as you were when you started this tank as a high tech system? I'm trying to decide what sort of filtration to use for my upcoming 40B blackwater tank. If you're still running the same stuff, do you have problems with leaves being blown around? If you've changed, what sort of filtration are you currently using? 


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> Are you still running the same filter & powerhead setup as you were when you started this tank as a high tech system? I'm trying to decide what sort of filtration to use for my upcoming 40B blackwater tank. If you're still running the same stuff, do you have problems with leaves being blown around? If you've changed, what sort of filtration are you currently using?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Still using the same filtration, yes. I don't use the power head though, it just creates to much flow for my liking.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Nlewis said:


> Still using the same filtration, yes. I don't use the power head though, it just creates to much flow for my liking.




Thanks for the info. I am not surprised that you removed the powerhead. I've used those in a variety of smaller tanks =<55g and always thought they created too much flow. 


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Tank has been moved to its new home with a slightly new layout. Plants are deficient as I haven't been dosing for the last week or so and this go round I won't be chasing tannins.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Any more pics of the Panduro? Do you think they would be good with a pair of Caucatoides in a 75 gallon? What are your parameters?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> Any more pics of the Panduro? Do you think they would be good with a pair of Caucatoides in a 75 gallon? What are your parameters?




I think it is mostly recommended not to mix different species within the genus as to not create random hybrids. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis has some sick fish on the way...


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Yeah I do, Apistogramma sp. Abacaxis. They won't be going in this tank though. Along with them I'm getting 2 WC Panduro females that will.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Any more pics of the Panduro? Do you think they would be good with a pair of Caucatoides in a 75 gallon? What are your parameters?


Yeah


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

That's a gorgeous fish! I'm curious what your plan is for the A. abacaxis? 


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> That's a gorgeous fish! I'm curious what your plan is for the A. abacaxis?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They will be housed in a 20 with a few dithers. Actually in order to make room for them, I'm giving my buddy my breeding pair of Triple Reds.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Chugging along here trying to get this tank back to where it was before the move. Plants are doing better now that they are getting the proper ferts. Also added 2 WC Panduro's to even up the sex ratio, so there's now 3 pair.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Added some purple Cabomba Friday. Still trying to figure out the issue with the stargrass, it’s becoming my nemesis. Trying to fix it I added some gh booster last week and the swords didn’t like that at all. New growth is twisted, same with the stargrass. I also need to find something for the left side of the tank.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Tank looks good, looks like a totally different tank from the blackwater version of itself.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Do you have any pics of the Coral Pencilfish? I wanted them badly, but they are $12 a piece plus shipping. Did you have success raising any fry with the tetras and Cory's?? I want to do Panda's in the top tank with the Rainbows and Caucatoides. How many did you start with? Any breeding success?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> Do you have any pics of the Coral Pencilfish? I wanted them badly, but they are $12 a piece plus shipping.


YES! I'm fairly certain we should be demanding pictures of the Corals by now! haha. Seriously though, how have you not graced us with an image of these marvelous creatures yet? I'm definitely planning on a small school of these at some point. That will end up being all of my fish money for months though.

Edit: Honestly, I totally forgot about them until @TheDude1 mentioned them. I'm not sure how with my current Pencilfish obsession.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> YES! I'm fairly certain we should be demanding pictures of the Corals by now! haha. Seriously though, how have you not graced us with an image of these marvelous creatures yet? I'm definitely planning on a small school of these at some point. That will end up being all of my fish money for months though.
> 
> Edit: Honestly, I totally forgot about them until @TheDude1 mentioned them. I'm not sure how with my current Pencilfish obsession.


Nope. They slowly disappeared and I never found the bodies, which means the Fire Reds picked them off. They were juries and pretty much snack size for them. There is the big local auction this weekend I’ll be attending and will get some more. This time I’ll put them in the Abacaxis tank.

Bump:


johnson18 said:


> Tank looks good, looks like a totally different tank from the blackwater version of itself.


Thanks. I just tend to really enjoy the heavy tannined look.

Bump:


The Dude1 said:


> Do you have any pics of the Coral Pencilfish? I wanted them badly, but they are $12 a piece plus shipping. Did you have success raising any fry with the tetras and Cory's?? I want to do Panda's in the top tank with the Rainbows and Caucatoides. How many did you start with? Any breeding success?


Not sure with the tetras, if they do breed I’m sure they get picked off quickly. Cories have breed in the past, but unfortunately the eggs became fish food.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

That's a bummer about the coral red pencils!! It is pretty cool that your local auctions include things like Pencilfish, especially the reds!! My auctions are most basic fish(lots of standard angels and bristlenose plecos[emoji23]) with the exception of the random Apistos and cool killifish from time to time. 

I fully agree with you on tannins. I also love the heavy tannined look. That why we gravitate towards blackwater tanks & species, right? I'm interested in seeing more of your abacaxis. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

No!!! That would really suck! At that price though it's not quite as bad. So if we are being honest is it not likely to have Apisto or Cory fry survive even in a heavily planted community aquarium? Maybe I'll just stock what I want from the start and accept it.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> No!!! That would really suck! At that price though it's not quite as bad. So if we are being honest is it not likely to have Apisto or Cory fry survive even in a heavily planted community aquarium? Maybe I'll just stock what I want from the start and accept it.




I'm having to come to that same decision. In my mind I've got an idea but in reality it isn't likely to be successful in my tank. If you saw the stocking list for my 40b that I posted yesterday in the Apisto pic thread, you can see what I mean. Apistos breeding in a tank that full isn't gonna happen. 


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> No!!! That would really suck! At that price though it's not quite as bad. So if we are being honest is it not likely to have Apisto or Cory fry survive even in a heavily planted community aquarium? Maybe I'll just stock what I want from the start and accept it.


Apistos can definitely be successful breeding in a community tank depending on the parents. They’re known to be very good parents to their fry and some are better than others. It really boils down to the female, as she’s the protector. They can become down right vicious when they have fry and take on much larger fish that come near them and send them packing. 

Cordoras have no parenting skills what so ever. So unless they’re in a very lightly stocked community tank with lots of hiding spaces, then it’s doubtful you’ll have fry survive.

Bump:


johnson18 said:


> That's a bummer about the coral red pencils!! It is pretty cool that your local auctions include things like Pencilfish, especially the reds!! My auctions are most basic fish(lots of standard angels and bristlenose plecos[emoji23]) with the exception of the random Apistos and cool killifish from time to time.
> 
> I fully agree with you on tannins. I also love the heavy tannined look. That why we gravitate towards blackwater tanks & species, right? I'm interested in seeing more of your abacaxis.
> 
> ...


I’ll see if I can get some shots of him later when I’m home.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So, I went to the big auction today with the intention of coming home with some Coral Reda. There were 2 bags of 10+ juveniles for auction. I bid upto $35 for the first bag and bowed out when it got to high and decided to go after the second bag. Well the second bag came up, the guy who got the first bag started the bidding at $40 with no intention of going higher. The bag eventually sold for $80. I’ll be looking for them at the monthly “mini” auctions from here on out. I did however come home with 5 Corydoras Weitzmani.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

That's crazy. I always laugh at the people who do things like that only to have it blow up in their face. It's possible that if he had let it start at the minimum bid it could have gone for less than $80. lol. Some times that tactic works but usually not for the rare/less common items. Honestly, I often try to talk to the person selling the items which I would like to get in order to see if I can get their contact info to buy it from them on the side. I've been successful at with this approach several times and have been able to acquire the items for less than the auction price and retail. I do this with potential buyers too. It is rare for me to go to any of the local club auctions and not have any side deals already set up as buyer or seller.



Beautiful little Corydoras!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Ive got to get hooked up with some local clubs and auctions. That sounds like a blast. Aquarium stuff calms me like nothing else. What is the total stocking in this tank now?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Ive got to get hooked up with some local clubs and auctions. That sounds like a blast. Aquarium stuff calms me like nothing else. What is the total stocking in this tank now?


Rough estimates 

3 pair of Panduro
16 green neons
6 rummynose
5 Weitzmani Cory
3 elegant Cory 
6 panda Cory
5 oto cats
1 starlight pleco


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Those weitzmani Corys look very similar to Pandas. Do they shoal together? I want to double the size of my group. 12 at least.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Those weitzmani Corys look very similar to Pandas. Do they shoal together? I want to double the size of my group. 12 at least.


Yep.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

It’s fall and the tannins will be here soon.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That looks awesome! Any new pics of the Panduro? Any breeding activity? Have they each established a territory or are they somewhat transient?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> That looks awesome! Any new pics of the Panduro? Any breeding activity? Have they each established a territory or are they somewhat transient?


Nope they still look the same. One of the new females has basically taken over the right side of the tank. She’s doing her best to find a partner but she’s having no luck. 

Check out the apisto thread. I just posted a pic of some Abacaxis fry. 

Oh and the tank is getting darker.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Nope they still look the same. One of the new females has basically taken over the right side of the tank. She’s doing her best to find a partner but she’s having no luck.
> 
> Check out the apisto thread. I just posted a pic of some Abacaxis fry.
> 
> Oh and the tank is getting darker.


What.....? That's awesome... You're going to have a bidding war for those..


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> What.....? That's awesome... You're going to have a bidding war for those..


Lmao, let’s hope so. I have to keep them alive first. I’ve got a batch of bbs going for feeding tomorrow.


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## Hootie (Oct 7, 2016)

Looks Awesome! WHere did you purchase your plants from in the page 1 dutch style tank??


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Hootie said:


> Looks Awesome! WHere did you purchase your plants from in the page 1 dutch style tank??


I had a few plants from various tanks and the rest were purchased for @burr740.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Still just chugging along.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

How are things going with your tank? Still running it as a clearwater tank with low tannins? This was one of the tanks that really got me interested in blackwater. Now that I’ve got my own I still look back through some of these pics for addition inspiration. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> How are things going with your tank? Still running it as a clearwater tank with low tannins? This was one of the tanks that really got me interested in blackwater. Now that I’ve got my own I still look back through some of these pics for addition inspiration.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tanks really in cruise control for the most part. Still clear as there’s really no sure fire way of maintaining the amount of tannins I would like. I have thought of buying some small pieces of mopani to create some. 

I ripped out a ton of pennywort last Saturday that’s been choking out the large chunk of moss on the left side of the tank. I left For Italy a couple weeks back and the left it for my wife to handle. I don’t think it was dosed properly and my Co2 ran out while I was across the pond. 

Also been having issues with the male Panduro. I lost one and currently have another in a 5g QT tank. Can’t tell whether it’s bacterial or fungal but it’s affecting their face and mouth. I’ve thrown every medication I have at them to no avail. 

I’ve actually been pondering a rescape and going back to full blown high tech.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Man that sucks... the tank looks awesome if that's the current condition. You also lost the female Abacaxis right?? Sorry Dude.. I kind of know how you feel... although I have substantially less experience than you, it's tough to lose fish that run $40-$80 a pair.... especially when they are only sold in pairs.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Man that sucks... the tank looks awesome if that's the current condition. You also lost the female Abacaxis right?? Sorry Dude.. I kind of know how you feel... although I have substantially less experience than you, it's tough to lose fish that run $40-$80 a pair.... especially when they are only sold in pairs.


Yep she’s gone and my boy seems lonely. I can’t find any and it’s pissing me off.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Your tank still looks awesome! I’m still surprised that you dose fertz and run CO2 on this tank. I guess it does explain some of the excellent plant growth that you continually get! I will be bummed to see this tank go back to being a high tech tank. Sorry to hear of your continual troubles with the panduros, not to mention your abacaxis! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> Your tank still looks awesome! I’m still surprised that you dose fertz and run CO2 on this tank. I guess it does explain some of the excellent plant growth that you continually get! I will be bummed to see this tank go back to being a high tech tank. Sorry to hear of your continual troubles with the panduros, not to mention your abacaxis!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Panduro’s just spawned for the first time.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Awesome, congrats! Nice to see your luck turn around. Hoping to get my orange flash to breed.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Caca’s are probably the easiest when it comes to breeding. You’ll have fry before you know it.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I’ve officially succumbed to the fact that I need tannins in my life. So I left work today, drove to my parents house and filled up a Wawa bag full of oak leaves. I just stuck roughly 30 leaves in the tank and feel like a kid on Christmas Eve waiting for the water to turn brown. 

So things will be changing a bit. I’ll be ditching the large sword and moving it to my dads tank. The first sword that got this big I moved to his tank. Since then that swords become a momma swords with lots of baby swords. I’ll stick some of them in the tank and try to get the stargrass going. I really want the stargrass to become the focal point it once was. 

On another note, the Panduro have wigglers today. The female has become an absolute terror to all the other fish, especially the 2 other females. I don’t expect much to come out in regards to fry. I’m not going to go out of my way to feed and cater to fry in the tank. I’m letting nature do it’s thing and hopefully it works out.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That is awesome man.. I'm rooting for ya!! Do you have a place to put the fry if they make it?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> That is awesome man.. I'm rooting for ya!! Do you have a place to put the fry if they make it?


Nope but maybe if the other male Panduro kicks it I could move them to the QT tank.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Hell yes! Nice to see that you’ll be sticking with this scape and working to get more tannins. I’ve found that tossing in a few extra seed pods or other botanicals will really kick things up. Ha. Sometimes I add too many though, then I end up with a tank that you can’t see through like mine is right now. lol. 

The stargrass is really going to rock as the main focal point of the tank. When healthy and growing well, it really is a beautiful plant. I look forward to more updates on this tank as things progress. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Alright, I relocated the big sword and planted in 4 new baby swords. Moved some of the stargrass to the back center. It’s looking really bare in there right now. 

Oak leaves just aren’t cutting it right now in regards to tannins. I have put in some peat granules as well and things just aren’t getting there. Looks like Tannin Aquatics will be getting some more money from me in the near future. I can cheat by putting in some tea bags also. 

Panduro should have free swimming fry any day now. I can see them where she’s trying to hide them and they definitely look ready to start moving around. I may be looking for a home for the 2 remaining females I have.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Glad to see this tank is still plugging along! Looking good and it's going to look even better when you get some tannins back in.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

longgonedaddy said:


> Glad to see this tank is still plugging along! Looking good and it's going to look even better when you get some tannins back in.


Oh man, your still alive? Where’s the update on your tank?


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Nlewis said:


> Oh man, your still alive? Where’s the update on your tank?


I am! Just posted it. More of a non-update, as not much has changed.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

It’s getting ready to go brown in here. Got an order in from Tannin Aquatics. 

Tank has turned into a war zone since the Panduro spawned. The pair has the other 25 or so fish huddled into the left side of the tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Are the fry still alive? If so, how old are they? What are they eating?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Are the fry still alive? If so, how old are they? What are they eating?


They’ve been free swimming for a few days now. They’re currently feeding on whatever they can find in the tank. If they make it, they make it. I’m not going to cater to them in this tank. When they’re gone or big enough I’ll move the pair into the 20 the Abacaxis is in.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Definitely darker in the tank, but still not where I want it. I need something sustainable like possible new wood. Constantly having to add botanicals or boiling leaves is just not ideal.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That looks awesome. How are the fry doing?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> That looks awesome. How are the fry doing?


Good for now. Mom is still beating the hell out of any other fish that come near them. Best fish Mom ever.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Good for now. Mom is still beating the hell out of any other fish that come near them. Best fish Mom ever.


That is awesome. I hope to be able to witness parental care from a successful spawning of something here soon.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> That is awesome. I hope to be able to witness parental care from a successful spawning of something here soon.


It’ll happen man. Sometimes you just have to let things be and not try so hard. You can only do so much, nature just has to do its thing. You’ll have Krib fry soon, they’re prolific breeders.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Finally got the look I was going for. When I changes the water earlier I dumped in the gallon of tannin water I kept when boiling the botanicals. This has also I’m guessing had a negative impact on some fish. When the lights came on, I found all 6 of my Rummynose tetras dead. 

Fry are doing well. I think there are only about 10 remaining but they’re putting on some size. 

Notice the stargrass in the center showing. IT’S FINALLY GROWING!!!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

It looks awesome, but that really sucks about the Rummynose.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Found 3 dead green neons when I got home today. I didn’t think of it until late yesterday, but I think I swung the ph pretty hard when putting in the tannin concentrate. It was a gallon and that waters ph had to be pretty low. 

Side shot pictured below, it’s dark.


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## Functional (Jan 19, 2018)

what is that lily pad looking plant you have in there?


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## JEFF9922 (May 8, 2013)

looks like a lotus maybe tiger


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Functional said:


> what is that lily pad looking plant you have in there?


Red tiger lotus.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Looking good, love that level of darkness. Mine has been too light lately. 
Bummer about the fish loss. I’d bet you’re correct with the pH swing from the tannin concentrate. This is part of the reason I’m going to start actually remineralizing my ro water, rather than continue to go straight ro. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> Looking good, love that level of darkness. Mine has been too light lately.
> Bummer about the fish loss. I’d bet you’re correct with the pH swing from the tannin concentrate. This is part of the reason I’m going to start actually remineralizing my ro water, rather than continue to go straight ro.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tannins are all but gone already. I’m gonna look into getting some mopani wood for the tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

How long had the green Neons been in there?? My LFS got 10 one time so I immediate bought them all along with 25 regular Neons. I MIGHT have lost 1 green neon. I lost probably 7 Neons. Granted it's just one experience, but the green Neons were much more resilient than the regulars. Do the green Neons grow to the same size as regular Neons? Mine were much smaller.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> How long had the green Neons been in there?? My LFS got 10 one time so I immediate bought them all along with 25 regular Neons. I MIGHT have lost 1 green neon. I lost probably 7 Neons. Granted it's just one experience, but the green Neons were much more resilient than the regulars. Do the green Neons grow to the same size as regular Neons? Mine were much smaller.


I’ve had them since I started the tank, so over 2 years. The greens are definitely smaller than the “standard” neons.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> I’ve had them since I started the tank, so over 2 years. The greens are definitely smaller than the “standard” neons.


I wasn't aware that pH could swing that sharply to kill acclimated fish. I had considered trying to do the "blackwater" thing.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Ok, so this is my last ditch effort for long term tannins. Enter the Mopani.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm excited to see how you incorporate them. I have some mopani stumps I'd like to use, but I can't figure out how to incorporate them and have it look good.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm excited to see how you incorporate them. I have some mopani stumps I'd like to use, but I can't figure out how to incorporate them and have it look good.


Man I came home from the LFS and just slammed the 2 biggest pieces in there. I’m not concerned with it being pretty, just want it brown.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

And the following day we have a nice tea color.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Tanks a lot lighter after a water change. On the bright side, the Stargrass is growing. 

Going to be shipping my light to Fluval this week for warranty. Dumb touch sensor is absolutely horrible.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

If you had it to do again, how would you go about getting and keeping tannins and acclimating fish??


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> If you had it to do again, how would you go about getting and keeping tannins and acclimating fish??


An ass load of wood. I still have anoth piece of Mopani here, but would need to remove what’s currently on the right side. I’m reluctant to do that because this is where the fry hang out an I’m pretty sure she’s spawning now. May throw some oak leaves in. 

I’ve never had any issues acclimating fish, although I haven’t introduced anything new in a long time.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> An ass load of wood. I still have anoth piece of Mopani here, but would need to remove what’s currently on the right side. I’m reluctant to do that because this is where the fry hang out an I’m pretty sure she’s spawning now. May throw some oak leaves in.
> 
> I’ve never had any issues acclimating fish, although I haven’t introduced anything new in a long time.


I thought you might say that. I'll see if I can grab some more scraps. Got 6 little nice pieces a couple weeks ago. A few didn't sink. So I let them soak for a couple days. The water they were soaking in was dark dark tannin stained. Like an idiot I dumped it. Now I'm going to have to buy more pieces just for the tannins. I was going to do some IAL since they're cheap and fry like them. Saw some posts where one guy dropped in 3 leaves at one time and the next day all his fish were dead. Doing this in my 2.6 and 11.4 to breed tetras.. hopefully.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> I thought you might say that. I'll see if I can grab some more scraps. Got 6 little nice pieces a couple weeks ago. A few didn't sink. So I let them soak for a couple days. The water they were soaking in was dark dark tannin stained. Like an idiot I dumped it. Now I'm going to have to buy more pieces just for the tannins. I was going to do some IAL since they're cheap and fry like them. Saw some posts where one guy dropped in 3 leaves at one time and the next day all his fish were dead. Doing this in my 2.6 and 11.4 to breed tetras.. hopefully.


Just use oak leaves. They’re free and last much longer.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I’ve found that I like the alder cones to add a little tint rather than IAL. I do still buy IAL in bulk. I’ve never had issues with multiple leaves at once, even in my 5.5 gallon. Some people do a quick boil of their leaves prior to them going into the tanks. I don’t do that at all. Wish I had access to Oak leaves, but not too many choices for collecting leaves in the desert that don’t create some nasty secondary metabolites! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## doinkmobb (May 12, 2010)

Nlewis said:


> *An ass load of wood.* I still have anoth piece of Mopani here, but would need to remove what’s currently on the right side. I’m reluctant to do that because this is where the fry hang out an I’m pretty sure she’s spawning now. May throw some oak leaves in.
> 
> I’ve never had any issues acclimating fish, although I haven’t introduced anything new in a long time.


My 75 gallon has been up and running since May 2017 and I'm _still_ fighting tannins. I have a decent amount of wood, 90% of it is roots from a large tree that was knocked over (no idea what kind of tree). No leaf litter at all. Annoyingly, it's supposed to be a clear water Amazon biotope. This last round of Purigen has finally made a dent in the clarity of the water though. This is after many, many, many water changes. 

I would say, wood does more for long term tannin leaching than leaves. In addition to wood, I'm using magnolia leaves and bark, and water oak leaves for tannins in my 33L. It's starting to look nicely tinted, but I know after a few water changes, it'll lighten up. I'm going to go with the 'organic peat in a pillow case' approach for water changes, seems like an easy and inexpensive way to go.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> I’ve found that I like the alder cones to add a little tint rather than IAL. I do still buy IAL in bulk. I’ve never had issues with multiple leaves at once, even in my 5.5 gallon. Some people do a quick boil of their leaves prior to them going into the tanks. I don’t do that at all. Wish I had access to Oak leaves, but not too many choices for collecting leaves in the desert that don’t create some nasty secondary metabolites!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This sounds like a trade in the works. I have access to all the oak leaves you want.

Bump:


doinkmobb said:


> My 75 gallon has been up and running since May 2017 and I'm _still_ fighting tannins. I have a decent amount of wood, 90% of it is roots from a large tree that was knocked over (no idea what kind of tree). No leaf litter at all. Annoyingly, it's supposed to be a clear water Amazon biotope. This last round of Purigen has finally made a dent in the clarity of the water though. This is after many, many, many water changes.
> 
> I would say, wood does more for long term tannin leaching than leaves. In addition to wood, I'm using magnolia leaves and bark, and water oak leaves for tannins in my 33L. It's starting to look nicely tinted, but I know after a few water changes, it'll lighten up. I'm going to go with the 'organic peat in a pillow case' approach for water changes, seems like an easy and inexpensive way to go.


Lol, you should ship me all your wood. 

I have a giant bag of magnolia leaves. I like them because they last a long time but they don’t really produce any tannins. 

Peat in a pillow case? Are you filtering your water through peat?


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## doinkmobb (May 12, 2010)

Nlewis said:


> This sounds like a trade in the works. I have access to all the oak leaves you want.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> ...


In large amounts, they release some tannins, but I don't think they last through too many water changes. You'd have to constantly add some after water changes, after a while, you'd have a 6" thick layer of leaves...which may or may not be ideal.

No, I was thinking about setting aside some water to age, with a pillow case filled with peat in the bucket. On another tank, I had a tiny HOB filter that I stuffed with peat, it seemed to work alright. I'd like to have a supply of stained, acidic water to replace the stained, acidic water that I'm taking out.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

doinkmobb said:


> In large amounts, they release some tannins, but I don't think they last through too many water changes. You'd have to constantly add some after water changes, after a while, you'd have a 6" thick layer of leaves...which may or may not be ideal.
> 
> No, I was thinking about setting aside some water to age, with a pillow case filled with peat in the bucket. On another tank, I had a tiny HOB filter that I stuffed with peat, it seemed to work alright. I'd like to have a supply of stained, acidic water to replace the stained, acidic water that I'm taking out.


I was also considering doing that given the small size of the two tanks I'm working on. How much peat per gallon are you thinking and how long do you think you will let it sit? I'm going to go looking for some oak leaves this weekend while I am on Spring Break.


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## doinkmobb (May 12, 2010)

The Dude1 said:


> I was also considering doing that given the small size of the two tanks I'm working on. How much peat per gallon are you thinking and how long do you think you will let it sit? I'm going to go looking for some oak leaves this weekend while I am on Spring Break.


I'm really not sure, I was just going to eyeball it. 
"Is it not brown enough?" - add peat
"It is too brown?" - subtract peat

Not very scientific.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Finally had to do I big trim on the Stargrass. Tannins are steadily dwindling as I’ve been doing weekly 50% water changes.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I've noticed the same thing. A decent amount of mopani will stain the water pretty quick, but it also runs out of steam fast. I added several dark oak leaves (1 per gallon) and didn't notice anything. Even boiling a big batch and getting some deep tannin stained water it took about 12 oz to get any decent tint in what amounts to 10 gallons of water. I'm going to set up a 10 gallon Rubbermaid bin and fill it with a pot of oak leaf tea and the remainder will be RODI water with a bag of peat soaking... I didn't realize how much effort is required to maintain a "blackwater" tank. I can't imagine maintaining 40 gallons.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Here we are a week later. The tank has become real entertaining with both female Panduro spawning a few days apart from one another. It’s fun watching the females spar while the male gets between them and sends them back to their fry.


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## Functional (Jan 19, 2018)

Out of all the tanks/journals I've been looking through over the past few months this tank is still my favorite.


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## doinkmobb (May 12, 2010)

The Dude1 said:


> I've noticed the same thing. A decent amount of mopani will stain the water pretty quick, but it also runs out of steam fast. I added several dark oak leaves (1 per gallon) and didn't notice anything. Even boiling a big batch and getting some deep tannin stained water it took about 12 oz to get any decent tint in what amounts to 10 gallons of water. I'm going to set up a 10 gallon Rubbermaid bin and fill it with a pot of oak leaf tea and the remainder will be RODI water with a bag of peat soaking... I didn't realize how much effort is required to maintain a "blackwater" tank. I can't imagine *maintaining 40 gallons*.


I used to try to minimize my water changes on my old 75 gallon blackwater setup, because I didn't want to remove too many tannins. 33 gallons is a little more manageable. Still, I'm thinking of getting a refurb RODI unit, so I can change less water to keep the TDS where I want it.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

doinkmobb said:


> I used to try to minimize my water changes on my old 75 gallon blackwater setup, because I didn't want to remove too many tannins. 33 gallons is a little more manageable. Still, I'm thinking of getting a refurb RODI unit, so I can change less water to keep the TDS where I want it.


My wife has already expressed some displeasure with the 2 5 gallon buckets with cords coming out of them stacked in the exercise room. I'm going to get into the garage this weekend and organize and see where I can set up an RODI system plumbed into a 55 gallon trash can. Mix 50/50 RODI and have a gallon bag of peat soaking. Ill still be back to carrying buckets for water changes, but I don't see another way to keep even a small supply of "blackwater" available for water changes. 

Nlewis have you replaced the tetras in this tank yet? What do you have in with the Panduro now? Also what spawn are they on at this point? The first spawn from my Nigerian Reds did not make it despite the last 5 or 6 being a pretty decent size when they disappeared. I'm wondering if I should try to remove the next batch and raise them.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Nlewis have you replaced the tetras in this tank yet? What do you have in with the Panduro now? Also what spawn are they on at this point? The first spawn from my Nigerian Reds did not make it despite the last 5 or 6 being a pretty decent size when they disappeared. I'm wondering if I should try to remove the next batch and raise them.


Nope, I’ve been upping my water changes due to a bacterial infection in one of the female Panduro’s. It’s some kind of mouth rot that took out the 2 males I had months ago. Tannins do come back a bit, but the 50% WC knocks it down pretty hard. 

There’s roughly 12 cories and about 6 green neons. One female is on her first spawn while the other is on her second. There’s fry all over the right side of the tank. Both moms are the best I’ve seen yet. I think this may have something to do with them being wild caught fish. 

If you really want to breed them then your best bet is to stick them in their own tank. I’ve considered putting a Panduro pair in one of my 20’s but at the same time I might be taking both of them down for one larger tank.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I still try to stick with a 25-50% water change per week/week and a half, just depending on how my back is doing. As soon as I finish one I immediately start soaking leaves/cones in 10g of water for the next one. Whenever I do a water change I used the tannin rich ro first and top the rest off with regular ro. I’ve once again stopped remineralizing. Between my pool sand and the Amazonia I don’t see to have any issues with using straight ro. The sand seems to leech into the water a bit. I’ve got a full 2’x2.5’x2’ tote packed with unused Malaysia driftwood & mopani. At some point I may start using pieces of that in my water buckets instead. 


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Functional said:


> Out of all the tanks/journals I've been looking through over the past few months this tank is still my favorite.


Thanks so much, glad you enjoy it. 

Did another big trim on the stargrass today as it was breaching the water surface. The tank is getting cleaner as of late with the bigger water changes. Also cleaned my filter which I’ve been procrastinating in doing for awhile and oh boy it was nasty. I did however find a surprise while doing so. I emptied the canister and noticed something flopping around in the housing. What I found was one of the original Panduro fry which I haven’t seen for a few days.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That guy got sucked up into the filter and lived until you found him?! That's one tough hombre!!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Not much going on here. I did find out that a dirty canister filter really affects Co2 diffusion. After cleaning it last week my Co2 levels are way up and plants are pearling like crazy. I haven’t adjusted the Co2 or lighting whatsoever.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Interesting. How often are you cleaning your canisters? I cleaned the one on my 150 over the weekend and it was atrocious. Admittedly I don't clean canisters often as they are heavy and cumbersome... perhaps that has something to do with the 75 gallons having literally like twice the BPS of the 150?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Interesting. How often are you cleaning your canisters? I cleaned the one on my 150 over the weekend and it was atrocious. Admittedly I don't clean canisters often as they are heavy and cumbersome... perhaps that has something to do with the 75 gallons having literally like twice the BPS of the 150?


I like to do it once a month especially on this tank. There’s just so much debris that gets sucked into the canister from botanicals and leaves breaking down. I’ve been busy and it went 3 months and the filter was super gunked up.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

It’s like corydoras heaven in here. Four species pictured below and the newest on the far left, corydoras shultzei black. 
@The Dude1 got some lemon tetras today as well. They were $24 for about 30.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

That one lemon tetra looks like he has ich on his tail.

Black cory is cool looking.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> It’s like corydoras heaven in here. Four species pictured below and the newest on the far left, corydoras shultzei black.
> 
> @The Dude1 got some lemon tetras today as well. They were $24 for about 30.


30?! That's a killer deal! One of my favorite aspects of your tanks is that you always choose less common species so the flora AND fauna are always interesting! Lemon Tetras are one of several fish that look almost entirely different after a couple months than they do newly acquired. I might have a line on a big group of the orange lemon tetras... didn't really plan on them, but they're unique. 
How are the Apisto's? Any fry make it to adolescence?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

vanish said:


> That one lemon tetra looks like he has ich on his tail.
> 
> Black cory is cool looking.


I had just done a water change before adding them. It was just small bubbles stuck to its slime coat.

Bump:


Nlewis said:


> I had just done a water change before adding them. It was just small bubbles stuck to its slime coat.





The Dude1 said:


> 30?! That's a killer deal! One of my favorite aspects of your tanks is that you always choose less common species so the flora AND fauna are always interesting! Lemon Tetras are one of several fish that look almost entirely different after a couple months than they do newly acquired. I might have a line on a big group of the orange lemon tetras... didn't really plan on them, but they're unique.
> How are the Apisto's? Any fry make it to adolescence?


There’s one or two floating around in there. They grow really slow if you’re not power feeding them. I’ll try and get a picture of one later when I find them.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Fry steadily invading this tank.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Tanks still kickin.


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## finfan (Jun 16, 2008)

Nlewis said:


> Tanks still kickin.



Your journal rocks... its my goal to be able to maintain tanks long term.. I have before... but not lately.. this is great inspirations, thanks for sharing.... keep doing the updates




.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Have any fry made it to juvenile stage yet??


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Have any fry made it to juvenile stage yet??


Yep


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Cleaned my canister today and found 3 Panduro fry of all different ages in the bottom of the canister.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Ouch


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Cleaned my canister today and found 3 Panduro fry of all different ages in the bottom of the canister.


That sucks... that's sad. That would really bump me out. How many do you have in there that are of juvenile size?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> That sucks... that's sad. That would really bump me out. How many do you have in there that are of juvenile size?


Lmao, forgot to mention they were alive. I know of 5 and 2 are substantially bigger than the rest and have started eating flake food.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Wow! That's awesome. Any idea how long they were in there? What else do you have in there now? I remember you losing some green neons


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

@The Dude1 I’m guessing they’ve been in there for about a month as I haven’t seen them for some time. As for the fish. 

Trio of Panduro’s
7 green neons
1 starlight pleco 
6/7 oto cats
10ish cories (black Schultzi, panda, elegans, and wietzmani) spelling probably all wrong


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Sort of unrelated, but this was my scenery today.










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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Nice!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

It’s a mess in here. This tank may turn into a more natural biotope soon. By that I mean, less plant focused and more of what it was in its early stages. Less plants and a lot more leaf litter and botanicals. I just find it so hard not to fill an aquarium full of plants.










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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Another somewhat unrelated post. I’ve been spending quite a bit of time fishing on the kayak this summer. Couple pics of my latest trip on the Upper Potomac river.




















































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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Just moved to a new place. Had to do a tear down obviously and got the tank set back up on Saturday. Although it not a native plant to South America, I threw in some NLJF as I dig the way it looks in there. I’ve also added leaf litter which has been missing for some time and will be adding more soon. 










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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Just a pic.










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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Just another pic










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## FischAutoTechGarten (Jul 11, 2003)

really enjoyed following this thread. thanks for taking the time to post so many fotos and so much info


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

This thing is waaaaaaay overgrown. I don’t even know what to do with this. 


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

Nothing a weed wacker cant handle ..... bet the corys are digging it though. Does look pretty cool with that cave in the forest kind of vibe.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Nlewis said:


> This thing is waaaaaaay overgrown. I don’t even know what to do with this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Heh now that is a jungle.

Looks like an opportunity to rescape to me ;P


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

May just have it all down and leave the rhizomes stuck to the wood. 


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

How's the tank?


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## chinaboy1021 (May 30, 2003)

Jesus you have some amazing low-tech tanks. Low tech has a special feel to them, a more natural feel. A feeling of age and stability.


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