# No acclimation introduction



## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi folks,

About a year ago I bought Several fish from an online seller. The fish arrived on good health and in the box was a lengthy write up on how to acclimate them. It was very well written.

Basically his point was that the worst thing you could do was keep the fish in the water they are shipped in any longer. That water is the worst that you would have for them. He also stated that temperature acclimation takes days, not minutes or hours and not to be concerned. So if you wee properly purchasing fish that were suitable for your tanks parameters, just get them into it. No floating bags, no mixing water. Just pour them into a net so that none of the shipping water enters your tank, and dump them in.

Sounds reckless and dangerous right?

His argument made some sense though, sink tried it. No losses. Have tried it a few times now and haven't lost a fish. Well, months later, but not acclimation related.

What do you think?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

While I completely agree with raw sewage being only a step away from what bagged shipping water turns into within 72hrs even with properly purged fish I would question large temperature or TDS shifts not being an added stress factor. Either of which being shifted only a small amount would be better than the ammonia burns that often happen when bags are opened yet that can be dealt with using Prime. 
With my tanks kept around 80 - 82°F I would never consider opening a box even with water temps in the upper 60's and plopping those fish in the QT tank. Having received three cold box shipments with water even in the upper 50's on the coldest one I have had fish recover raising the temp over several hours. Laying on the bottom of the bag when I opened the box and swimming an hour later.

No intention of trying the pour and plop here on anything beyond a +-10°F range difference.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I've been doing this for a while. Further, for water changes I use only cold water and do as much as 90% at one time... essentially the same thing. Fish and shrimp love me for it.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

I tend to agree...with only a couple areas of concern. I think fish deal with temp changes up better than with temp changes down. So I don't mind "room temp" fish being dumped in a 78 degree aquarium...but I wouldn't reverse that scenario. 

That an Ph...seems to me any fish deaths I've had on acclimation were from Ph swings. Like the fish were at 6.0 and my tank was at 7.5 or something. 

I have no empirical evidence to support either of those theories...just kind of what I have experienced in the past.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I've done it both ways and never lost fish either way. I have floated the bag to bring the temp in the bag to the same as the tank and drained the bag and released the fish. I've drip acclimated for hours and released the fish. I've gotten home with new fish and immediately thrown them in the tank. Can't say any losses suffered are related to the way I added them to my tank. I have learned a hard lesson on not QT'ing but that's a whole other topic.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> I've been doing this for a while. Further, for water changes I use only cold water and do as much as 90% at one time... essentially the same thing. Fish and shrimp love me for it.


Do you really?!

I'm not being wise either. The other day I was thinking how easy it would be to fill my tank if I didn't need to mix hot and cold. 

Please elaborate!


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Daximus said:


> Do you really?!
> 
> I'm not being wise either. The other day I was thinking how easy it would be to fill my tank if I didn't need to mix hot and cold.
> 
> Please elaborate!


Yup. In the summer when tap water is 50-60 I do 90% changes. In the winter when it is 40 degree water I do 40-60% changes. Never a loss. Fish like cichlids tend to spawn almost instantly....


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

I tend to do lots of plop and drops. Moving shrimp around my tanks when I'm culling, I just scoop and drop but the tanks are pretty close to the same params for my neo's and cardina's anyways. Each type uses the same substrate and water.

For new ones I've gotten from place, some of the TDS in the bag's is like 400-500 and still mostly just plop and drop them, without dumping the very high TDS and whatever else water into my tank.


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

I was just wondering if I was the only one, or being reckless. I don't think I would do this with sensitive fish, or chance it with very expensive fauna, but so far, so good. but on the other hand, why "drip" good water into that sewer water that they came in.

The last was a group of Apistos and within an hour they were out of hiding, colored up and swimming actively. 

Guess I'll keep doing this until I have a bad experience.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> Yup. In the summer when tap water is 50-60 I do 90% changes. In the winter when it is 40 degree water I do 40-60% changes. Never a loss. Fish like cichlids tend to spawn almost instantly....



So using this method when, where, and how much de-chlorinator do you use? That's my other issue, I'm afraid of nuking my fish or bacteria. I don't really know how the science behind that stuff works. 

Thank you!

@OP...sorry for the threadjack.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Daximus said:


> So using this method when, where, and how much de-chlorinator do you use? That's my other issue, I'm afraid of nuking my fish or bacteria. I don't really know how the science behind that stuff works.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> @OP...sorry for the threadjack.


I dose dechlor based on total volume of the tank, even though this is more than I need. 

I use chloram-x powder. Any will work.


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## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

...I have never temp matched for water changes. Here in Texas, water out of the cold side of the faucet is usually around 70ish. If its a 50% water change, and I use buckets, I dont have a problem. My tank stays at 81, may drop a few degrees during a water change. I may be way off, but I have heard that rapid cooler temp changes can even encourage breeding among many schooling fish. I always drip acclimate though for around an hour. No matter what the critter is.


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## Rev_jim_jones (Sep 25, 2011)

I do 30-50% water changes my cold is 50 degrees most of the year 75G drops 10-15 degrees during the change, the small tanks I let the water warm up while I am doing the large tank so they only drop 5-10 degrees Everything I have "except" my Atya Gambonensis doesn't mind, the Vampire shrimp will move all the way over the tank to get in the Heated Output from the inline Heater before going back home to the Driftwood and better feeding flow


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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

NJAquaBarren said:


> why "drip" good water into that sewer water that they came in


Because it avoids osmotic shock. When you get sharp drops in TDS you can cause shock and death (but rises don't seem to matter). Something I think you should test for if you're going to do "dumping".

That said I used to dump a lot of fish if the above wasn't an issue and never lost one, it works. Now I add a squirt of Prime to neutralize ammonia/nitrite and do a fast (<30 min) drip rather than bothering to run TDS/hardness tests.

Between tanks I just dump - I have soft tap water so they're all <3 dH but temp is up to 4C different between tanks...doesn't matter.


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## junko (Sep 9, 2011)

Rachel (msjinkzd) recommends plop and drop, and the place where I bought my angels recommends the slow drip method. So, I did plop and drop for Rachel's fish and the drip for the angels. All the fish did fine.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

I started plopping and dropping at the recommendation of Discus Hans years ago. When I started importing it was the hardest for me. THOUSANDS of inverts and fish just plunked in the tank? I had to be crazy! So I dripped the first few orders and realized I was having about 10% losses. The next import, I did plop and drop and had very few fatalities.


I think a lot would have to depend on how long they have been traveling and what you are dealing with, but 99% of the time, I plop and drop.


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## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

If someone were to buy a fish and it were to spend 4 hours in a bag, you all recommend adding directly then? Do I understand that it is better to go from low temperature to high, than high to low, and it is better to go from low ph to high quickly, than from high to low? My water is weird. Ph of 8.0 and kh of 25 degrees, but 0 degrees gh. I usually drip fish I buy locally, even though the pet stores use the same tap as me. Should I stop?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I would much rather go from high to low temp. For 1, a change to higher temp will result in a lower dissolved oxygen level. 

If the pet stores have the same params, dripping is definitely doing nothing. 

pH changed themselves are much less relevant than gh/kh. I think a change from low to high is more traumatic than a change from high gh/kh to low.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> I dose dechlor based on total volume of the tank, even though this is more than I need.
> 
> I use chloram-x powder. Any will work.


So just treat the tank and add the water huh? Awesomeness!

Thanks again! I'm done lugging 5 gallon jugs up and down stairs doing WCs on my 90, lol. Now I'll have to go to the gym.


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## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

Ha ha. Glad to hear my assumptions were exactly opposite if correct. I'll likely stop dripping local fish, and will drip fish purchased from another area.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Daximus said:


> So just treat the tank and add the water huh? Awesomeness!
> 
> Thanks again! I'm done lugging 5 gallon jugs up and down stairs doing WCs on my 90, lol. Now I'll have to go to the gym.


Correct. I usually start the water and then drop the powder in. It works nearly instantaneous so little fear. Never had a problem at all. 


Water changes on over a 1000 gallons involves me moving a hose and drinking a beer. The hardest part about the hole thing is attaching the hose to the sink....

To attach the hose to the faucet I use a u shaped pvc adapter that hooks to garden hose. I'll prob start selling these cheap with my new inline heater attachments.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> Correct. I usually start the water and then drop the powder in. It works nearly instantaneous so little fear. Never had a problem at all.
> 
> 
> Water changes on over a 1000 gallons involves me moving a hose and drinking a beer. The hardest part about the hole thing is attaching the hose to the sink....
> ...


I have a cold water faucet in my basement, but not hot. So for the past few months I been lugging 5 gallon jugs downstairs to do water changes. That's why I'm so excited to hear this from someone who knows what they are doing. 

The 50% WC days REALLY sucked on the 90, lol.


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm glad we started this thread. 

One thing though, overstock makes a good point about better to go to oxygen rich, but I think any tank should have better o2 than the bag the fish were in. I started this thread specifically thinking of mail order fish. So I think anything is better than the sewage they've been in.

A water change adds water that is likely much higher in O2 than the aquarium so the O2 situation should be a plus for both adding fish and water change scenarios.

Regarding temp change...I used to try and match refill from my python using a thermometer. Then I read in a magazine that rain changes the temp of bodies of water and fish are just fine. Duh! So I stopped doing that, though I do warm it up a little in winter for my sake I suppose.

So for once something is easier than expected. Great info folks.


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

well my whole theory of adding fish just got flipped upside down...thanks guys!!!


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

NWA-Planted said:


> well my whole theory of adding fish just got flipped upside down...thanks guys!!!


Turned my whole idea of water changes upside down as well. Splendid thread. Hope I didn't hyjack it too much with my water change inquisition...I was just a little excited. :icon_mrgr


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

I've never lost anything with the insta-release but sometimes I will float a bag for lie 15-20 min to get the temps a little closer, and to see if the resident fish might go into an aggressive mode at just the sight of a new occupant.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

Ive always gotten this acclimation advise from my LFS and from crapbox stores like PetSmart. "Bull%$*#" i mutter as the fish drop into my tank as soon as i get home. I dont think anything can be as stressful for a fish than sitting in a .25 gallon bag for more than 15 minutes. Life is much tougher than most would realize.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

NJAquaBarren said:


> Hi folks,
> About a year ago I bought Several fish from an online seller. The fish arrived on good health and in the box was a lengthy write up on how to acclimate them. It was very well written.
> What do you think?


I believe those instructions came from Corysrus.com. It's a lengthy writeup, but it made so much sense to me that I've been using "plopping and dropping" method ever since. Works much better for me than 5-hour dripping.

I have the complete text of the instructions and the reasoning behind them in electronic format, but not sure if I have the right to reproduce it here ...


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*different strokes*

Interesting thread no doubt, so thanks for the topic OP.
Prowled all over the Corysrus.com site this AM looking for the detailed information on acclamation without success. Looked at seller links on aquabid also and could not locate the information. Did find a 'facts' posting regarding Cory and salt tolerance that had me reading and referring to other sites that contradicted weights and volumes like Planet Catfish and Seriously Fish. Seems opinions will always vary and different species may handle different things with wider tolerance.

Steve Rybicki states he started shipping fish nationwide in 1987 and is now considered one of the premier sources of Angelfish in the U.S. The knowledge base on his website is free to all and has a very different view on this topic. While his is not the only site I referenced on the topic this morning it's the only one included. Without closely matching all parameters none recommend simply plopping fish. 

More information for thought on the topic. 
Steve includes his reasoning behind his position in how he does his write ups.
This is the closing from the first linked article; 
"So, have we proven why slow acclimation works? No, just that it is the safest method for our customers receiving our fish, based on our customer's experiences."
http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleSlowQuickAcclimation.htm
http://www.angelsplus.com/acclimation.htm
http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleQuarantine.htm

Personally I have a high degree of confidence in the information he provides. It mainstreams with most published opinions on the internet although it contains greater control on some variables. Most of the folks posting on TPT don't test water parameters with any regularity and the majority don't practice any introduction quarantine of merit. How temperature and TDS is handled being a personal choice is what we are talking about here I think and based on our comfort zone not that of our pets.
Where in nature would a fish see a huge or instant shift in temp or osmotic pressure other than crossing a thermocline? This is not a normal event (imo). 

Matching pH? who cares, I don't, and don't believe my fish do either.
Rapid shifts (swings) in GH, KH, TDS, osmotic pressure that's the yada yada that causes our critters issues not pH changes per say. Shipping water can contain almost an unlimited amount crap and chemicals. Knowing what a suppliers parameters are can help with the choices we make but it should be only part of the decision. 
Temperature, TDS (osmotic pressure), pollutants and O2 are all concerns receiving shipped fish or locally purchased for me. Better (imo) to base conversations like this one in values of temp, GH, KH, TDS and forget pH. Blind to what parameters a fish is acclimated too and simply plop a fish in the tank and call it the best way?
I could easily get a tested result of 7.4pH in both 4dGH and 24dGH water so I won't ask a supplier about pH. Flip a fish outta the net from one to the other either way and you just hit the critter in the face with a big ugly stick. 
Regarding rapid temperature shifts, going rapidly in either direction I usually get the flu. Hopping on a plane in Tampa and geting off in Ohio in the winter I'll usually have flu symptoms within three days, other way around (cold to hot) it happens most of the time too. Is it temperature alone or other environmental exposures? IDK. Why would a stressed animal be any different? Shocking an animal with rapid changes and saying it has no effect causes me pause. The Polar Bear Clubs look great on the news every year, watching what I consider crazy people swim in ice covered waters but I'm not joining one for the experience of the dip into freezing water LOL. 

Take a fish swimming in 80 - 82°F water and in minutes dropping the temp to 50 - 60°F? I'm not trying it.
On the other hand warming things up here is this advice.
http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleColdWeather.htm

I have experimented with temperatures as described in this article down to 64°F for 2 months with Ancistrus and Angelfish but all the shifts both up and down were changed gradually. 
http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleAquariumTemp.htm

Plop and Drop with close parameters yes, or in extreme cases of getting the fish out of a toxic soup when foul water is the major concern I agree. 
Normal handling and acclamation (imo) should be less drastic.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

To me, that makes sense. Whenever I buy fish from a questionable place, I try to get as much water as possible as I have had many not so hardy fish die before I get home in the bag. 

What about if you are injecting CO2 though? I have always done drip acclimation and I do it for a much longer time on my CO2 injected tank. I have found I can't even transfer fish from different tanks in the same house with much success as one has CO2, one does not. I was rarely successful plopping them in but I have not lost anything through drip acclimating. Just curious if this would be a reason to continue to drip acclimate.


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

I've done the plop and drop with discus. If it works with them it should work with any fish out there.


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## nikonD70s (Apr 6, 2008)

plop and drop works well....atleast for me. never done the drip acclimation...takes too long. if the water looks bad i normally put the fish in the tank right away. if the water is clean say i got it from a lfs i float the bag for like 20-30 mins then release. 

so long trip with bad water. release fish asap to give them clean water
short trip in the bags with clean water. i float for 30mins


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## newplant (Nov 11, 2010)

As we all know, co2 reduces ph. Ammonia is less poisonous in low ph. If you have a bunch of fish in a bag for a long time, you have plenty of co2 and ammonia. But the low ph reduces the toxicity of the ammonia. When you drip co2 is released causing ph to rise, now you get the idea ...

If I do float I keep the bag close. But I don't drip unless special circustances.


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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

Not much point floating - increased temperature also causes ammonium to convert to free ammonia. Just as bad for ammonia poisoning as raising the pH at that point just less publicized for some reason.


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## newplant (Nov 11, 2010)

The effect of temperature on ammonia toxicity is relatively minor. Although it does have some effect. So if the temperature different is more than 10 degrees one would benefit from floating the bag unopened. 

Here's a great page on the subject.

http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html


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## ducky14523 (Aug 29, 2011)

i think the temperature shift (within reason) is a non point. fish in the wild swim into shaded water and through different depths of water quickly and without acclimation. i suppose even different parts of the same body of water might have different ph. i personally switch fish in house between tanks the day after a water change figuring parameters are closest then. i do a speeded up drip method for new fish, adding small amounts of water to the bag in 5 to 10 min intervals until i've doubled the volume in the bag, then it's good luck buddy.


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

After all, how have they survived in the wild for however long and stayed alive? 

I posted that on a discus forum and got yelled at. Apparently people think discus can't be kept in planted tanks... Whatever. I do it!


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

When I buy fish locally I open the bag check the TDS and acclimate slowly until the TDS is the same. If the TDS is close I toss them in right away.
When I get fish shipped it depends on the length of time they were in the bag and how bad the water looks. Overnight fish I acclimate the same way I do for locally bought fish. 2 to 3 days shipping I open the bag, immediately add Prime to neutralize ammonia and depending on the TDS difference either drop and flop or acclimate. Also going from high to low TDS is easier on the fish than the other way around. My TDS is lower almost all the time so I could probably do the flop and drop all the time but I would not feel right about it. I do not worry about the temperature difference unless is is extreme. 

I just got 5 zebra otos and 3 black darter tetras today and the TDS was only off by 20, I netted the fish and tossed them straight into the tanks. All of them did fine and the otos started to eat almost immediately.


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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

newplant said:


> The effect of temperature on ammonia toxicity is relatively minor. Although it does have some effect. So if the temperature different is more than 10 degrees one would benefit from floating the bag unopened.
> 
> Here's a great page on the subject.
> 
> http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html


If you're overnight shipping at least 5 C shift is not uncommon IME. If you float, this will change a lot faster than offgassing, so it's a more rapid shift too.

Because it's a pet hate, I also have to say that page is also a load of crap with regards to toxicity thresholds (but the pH/temp chemistry is good). It's based on the EPA study but doesn't really reflect what the study shows. Many beginners have a false sense of security because of this and several other pages.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> Prowled all over the Corysrus.com site this AM looking for the detailed information on acclamation without success.


Sorry, I should have mentioned that the info I referred to is not on the website.
I will ask the owner for permission to post his instructions on TPT.
Until then I can forward the email with his instructions if you PM with email address.


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