# Substrate Cleaning vs. Not



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

You shouldnt really vacuum a planted tank. That is plant food you are taking away. Its OK to collect the bigger stuff and blow mulm into the water column, for your filter to get, using a powerhead, but I wouldnt vacuum it.


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Snails and shrimp get a lot of stuff when they scavenge. If you have Malaysian trumpet snails, they burrow in the sand and turn it over, keeping it clean. The plants remove TONS of stuff from the substrate as well. There are trillions of denitrifying bacteria in the gravel that are constantly breaking down detritus. 

Basically, just vacuum the open areas of the tank. You'll be fine.


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## BarleyBear (Feb 18, 2012)

Those are the answers I was hoping for! I didn't want to assume anything though. 

I already have nerites and golden apple snails. How big are the MTS's? They sound like a good idea. Do they breed like crazy or not? I don't want anything that's going to take over the tank. How many is a good number to start with?

I have a 12 gallon tank.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Yes, MTS will take over the tank in most cases.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

wendyjo said:


> Yes, MTS will take over the tank in most cases.


It depends on the tank I guess. I have them in all 9 of my tanks and never see any of them until after dark. I would guess you are over feeding if you have that many.


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## VeeSe (Apr 16, 2011)

What about for bottom dwelling fish who need clean substrates, like corys? Tons of people keep corys in planted tanks and don't vac, so I'm not even sure what people mean when they say to make sure the substrate is "clean" for these guys.


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## Kevyg (Jan 25, 2012)

VeeSe said:


> What about for bottom dwelling fish who need clean substrates, like corys? Tons of people keep corys in planted tanks and don't vac, so I'm not even sure what people mean when they say to make sure the substrate is "clean" for these guys.


I think this is referring to little Johnny's gravel tank in his bedroom with kiddie prints on the glass. With no plants dirty substrate is bad . Of course that is only what I THINK .


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## thechibi (Jan 20, 2012)

What I do: 

1) Give the plants and moss a lil brush/rub to knock stuff off.
2) Vac up whatever I knocked off the plants/any visible poo/whatever
3) If bucket still not full, do general vac of surface.


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Well, what are corydoras seen rooting around in in Nature? SCUM. Basically. Cories will be fine in an unvacced planted tank. MTS are very easy to control using small loaches and a slim feeding regime. And they don't eat plants, and they look VERY, VERY cool.


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## they call me bruce (Feb 13, 2011)

never vac in a perfect world!!!!


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Substrate Cleaning*

Hello Bar...

I don't vacuum my planted tanks and they've been running for several years. I just remove and replace a minimum of 50 percent of the tank water every week. If you commit to such a water change routine, there's no time for pollutants of any kind to build up in the tank before the next large water change. The water chemistry remains stable and the fish and plants are healthy.

Pretty simple.

B


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

+1!


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## fusiongt (Nov 7, 2011)

If you have room to vacuum your substrate you don't have enough plants 

But yea, my answer is leave it as well.


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## BarleyBear (Feb 18, 2012)

Great answer Fusion!

Thanks for all of the replies. I feel better about things now. And I'll try to find some MTS's.


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## Kevyg (Jan 25, 2012)

BarleyBear said:


> Great answer Fusion!
> 
> Thanks for all of the replies. I feel better about things now. And I'll try to find some MTS's.


I know it was said and I am sure you already know, but do NOT over feed cause those MTS will definitely let you know when there is too much food in the tank.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

fusiongt said:


> If you have room to vacuum your substrate you don't have enough plants


+1
Easily fixable problem :icon_twis


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## Bunfoo (Jan 14, 2012)

I go a little vacuuming in the tank if I physically SEE leftover food in open areas. If I don't see anything I don't bother. The shrimp usually pick up everything for the most part.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I always purse my lips a little or slightly roll my eyes when people talk about vacuuming their planted tanks.

I just can't imagine having enough open space to see substrate - even in a shrimp tank (ha) - to necessitate cleaning anything up.

I'm with the commenter above... add more plants!


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

MTS are usually considered pests and people might look at you weird if you ask about them and them give you some for free.


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## BarleyBear (Feb 18, 2012)

Kevyg said:


> I know it was said and I am sure you already know, but do NOT over feed cause those MTS will definitely let you know when there is too much food in the tank.



Yep. I did a little research after the suggestion was made. It seems they breed according to how much mulm/detritus there is to eat. So not overfeeding is the key to keeping the population down. I'm already very strict about not overfeeding, so I don't think that would be a problem.


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## BarleyBear (Feb 18, 2012)

LB79 said:


> MTS are usually considered pests and people might look at you weird if you ask about them and them give you some for free.


Maybe I should just add more plants and hope for some hitchhikers. 

Next time I'm at my LFS, I'll see if they have any hanging around in their plant tanks.


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Oh, yes, any excuse to add more plants!!


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## Kevyg (Jan 25, 2012)

BarleyBear said:


> Next time I'm at my LFS, I'll see if they have any hanging around in their plant tanks.


Go in as early as you can, they go away at daytime. So if you are early you might see some stragglers that haven't gotten into the substrate yet.



LB79 said:


> Oh, yes, any excuse to add more plants!!


Lol, you sound like the fiancee


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## BarleyBear (Feb 18, 2012)

Kevyg said:


> Go in as early as you can, they go away at daytime. So if you are early you might see some stragglers that haven't gotten into the substrate yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, you sound like the fiancee


Ah, very good point!


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

That too. I came home from a ski trip recently and turned on the lights on one of my 55s to find all my MTS on the front glass (a few hundred at least), facing the same way. It was like some sort of ritual or something.


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## BarleyBear (Feb 18, 2012)

LB, I just noticed your signature. Lord of the Rings fan!  I named my chocolate betta Radagast after one of the not-so-mentioned characters of the books, Radagast the Brown.


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Oh, man, awesome!!! You need a grey one and a white one! All three wizards.


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## jemminnifener (Nov 23, 2011)

LB79 said:


> That too. I came home from a ski trip recently and turned on the lights on one of my 55s to find all my MTS on the front glass (a few hundred at least), facing the same way. It was like some sort of ritual or something.


Wow that is creepy yet fascinating. No picture?...


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

chad320 said:


> It depends on the tank I guess. I have them in all 9 of my tanks and never see any of them until after dark. I would guess you are over feeding if you have that many.


Oh I don't mind them at all. They keep my substrate clean and are a part of my ecosystem just like everyone/thing else in the tank. I probably have hundreds of them.


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

I've never cleaned the gravel in either tank, but both have a fair amount of shrimp and MTS in them. In my 35 gal it has 2 amanos, one bamboo and 15 or so ghost shrimp with an unknown number of MTS. I started with 10 from a fish store around here that they gave me for free and if I had to guess i'd say i've got maybe 25 now. I never see them on the glass other than within the first few minutes of having the lights on and other than that just see the odd shell sticking out of the substrate. Between them and the plants I've got no mulm to speak of.


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## ducky14523 (Aug 29, 2011)

I compromised and the right side of my 29 is sand over dirt with the corner being plant free and i only feed over this one corner. So anything left over is right there sitting on top of the sand waiting to get siphoned.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

I don't and can't really. I couldn't even see the substrate.... I would just do more frequent water changes and replacing my filter flossing.


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

Yea I really never vacuumed my tank, I left my cories to take care of that.


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