# Cat Litter



## Steve (Jul 31, 2002)

I've heard Kitty Litter contains Iron and is a good substitute for flourite... anyone have any info on this theory?


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Yes it does. More than Flourite, actually. Some Wal-Mart special has Fe concentrations of 14,500 mg/kg and Flourite has only 9,610 mg/kg. 

Check out this site...

Substrates for the Planted Aquarium


You'd be surprised at how overrated Flourite is. Even more important than iron is Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC). Flourite's is 1.7 me/100g while Kitty Litter's is 27 me/100g. Tetra Initial sticks are 83 me/100g, hehe so I use them to supplement my Flourite substrate.

If I were doing another planted tank, it would just be kittly litter.


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## Steve (Jul 31, 2002)

Thanks for the info


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## Steve Hampton (Jul 22, 2002)

One of the great things about this hobby is the many different views successful aquatic gardners have about doing planted tanks.

My experience is just the opposite. Kitty litter was a waste of time and money. (though not much money) I have found that Flourite and Onyx are worth every penny. I still do my low light low tech tanks with a sand and laterite mix though. I wound never use kitty litter again.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I agree with Steve Hampton. Theres more than one way to skin a cat ! And thats why I like forums like this. We discuss our experiences and view points and take what we need and leave the rest. Being an old hydroponics "student", I kinda setup my tank with that experience in mind. My substrate is basically inert gravel used mainly to anchor the plants. In my opinion, when you use a substrate that packs tightly such as kitty litter, you limit the roots ability to spread ,and water circulation in the substrate becomes stagnant which can cause root rot and allow anaerobic bacteria to flourish below the substrate. I feed my plants a few ways, by dosing with flourish and flourish iron, I insert jobes spikes into the substrate near the base of the heavy root feeders, and the detritus from the fish and rotting plant material that doesn't get caught in the filter. Also co2 injection. As you can see my substrate doesn't really do anything to feed the plants. It's been working well for me. 

On the other hand ,I just ordered 3 bags of flourite to add to my gravel to act as a nutrient storage medium. Kinda like a nutrient buffer, to store excess nutrients when they're not used by the plants and to release them when theres a shortage in the tank. 

Growing plants in a closed system is part "science" and part "art". Thats whats so interesting about it.:bounce:


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## SNPiccolo5 (Oct 6, 2002)

I just did that exact same thing in my 55 gallon!! I had about 1 inch of gravel in my 55 and ordered 3 bags of Seachem Flourite from Bigalsonline.com. I cost about $17.00 including the shipping. They shipped it on Tuesday and I just got it this Friday!! Good Luck with the flourite!

-Tim


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

No doubt about it - Flourite is good stuff. I'm using it in my 55g with great success. But when I mix kitty litter with regular gravel, I haven't seen the compacting that m.lemay mentions. Kitty Litter is fairly soft and crushable, but that also makes it highly porous. It does a phenomenal job at storing nutrients for root feeders. It's higher Catien Exchange Capacity allows it to store the positively charged Ferrous iron (Fe +2) ions far better than Flourite. I'm not convinced that plants are actually able to use the Ferric minerals that actually exist in Flourite (as minimal as they are). The way plants get iron from Flourite is its ability to store the ions in the porous clay structure. 

Bottom line - Flourite is still awesome stuff. The one and only complaint I've ever heard in association with Flourite is it's capacity to cloud water for a few days after installation. No big deal in the big picture. But for those on a budget - they don't have to think you are compromising your tank by using Kitty Litter.

I like this discussion - I want to learn more about other people experiences with kitty litter. Steve, what problems did you run into with it?


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## Steve (Jul 31, 2002)

Have yet to put it in my tank. While still researching more on the topic, I have a pillow case full of kitty litter that I rinced the other day. Still trying to decide if I want to mix it in just yet.

I'll let you guys know what I find on the net.


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## ridns (Aug 9, 2002)

I am using kitty litter for the first time also and I can tell you one thing, wash it thoroughly! You will still get cloudy water for a few days but if you don't you will be vaccumming sludge till who knows when! I am putting pea gravel size river rock on top. According to what I've read about thier properties, my plants should be deleriously happy.:hehe:


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Sounds like you are not liking it ridns ...
Are you regretting using it ? 
Looking at those charts it looks very rich in Iron... I also imagine you cant use just any ole brand... sounds dangerous to me


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## Steve_WI (Nov 16, 2002)

Your right. Not everykind of kitty litter is aquarium safe. I looked into kitty litter also and if you plan on using it, you have to go for the no name brand stuff with no added chemicals or specials scents. It has to be pure kitty litter.


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## ridns (Aug 9, 2002)

The only thing I haven't liked about it so far is it took about an hour to wash it! %That has to be the worst experience I ever had washing substrate. Once you get past that, no problem. Be sure to mix it with small gravel to prevent it from packing up to tightly. :bounce: :angel: :hehe:


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## Flgatorguy (Sep 24, 2002)

The thing i did with my litter is after washing it ofcourse was bottom layer of substrate about 25% litter with the rest being small river rock then another layer of rock and any plants that go in i put a handful or so around the plant itself......works good and i guess you can say it matches the rock so you cant really tell its there......


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I really like the iron content of this... I might have to think about adding a little at a time and mix in with what I have allready have.
Does this effect PH values in any way or any other water parameters other then Fe ?


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

No, it shouldn't affect pH or hardness. The only way it can affect other water parameters is by what it absorbs from the water column, given its extremely porous construction.


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## NFish (Nov 5, 2002)

What brand would you buy for a planted tank (which is safe)?


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Usually the cheapest stuff out there is the best for a planted tank. It has to be non-allergenic with no additives of any sort. Just crushed clay. It is unbaked, though, and will eventually soften in water so it has to be mixed with regular gravel.


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

I am doing a 90g planted aquarium and when I did a 20g long a long time ago I did something like this and the plants grew like crazy I used pea sized gravel that I collected outside and mixed clay into it just enough to make a thin layer under the gravel that you would not really see I wanted planted tank and with very little money at the time I collected my own gravel and used a one dollar bag or litter. It seemed like plants really shot up once their roots hit the clay. I just used cheap clay litter from discount store.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Poof!

You need an award for "oldest thread back from the dead," Firestarter!


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

I was actually scared to bring this one back because I was on a forum once and got flamed really hard about doing it LOL.


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

I was actually scared to bring this one back because I was on a forum once and got flamed really hard about bringing a thread back LOL.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Flamed? Why would anyone be flamed for bumping a thread? IMO that's just silly.

I just think it's funny... especially cuz I've done it myself plenty of times after running a search and not paying attention to dates. And I love a good excuse to pull someone's chain... :tongue:

Sometimes I even do it on purpose b/c there's tons of old threads on here full of great info. :icon_smil


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

i have about an inch of special kitty capped with a few inches of PFS and i'm pretty happy with it so far.


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

I mixed some in my 90g with pea pebbles. A couple more decent water changes and the tank will be clear. I was going to put cat litter under the the pea pebblesl but wanted to mix it because last time I did it. Tthat was one thing I said I would change. I have about three inches of pea pebbles 90lb and close to 20lb of cat litter. Minus the junk that was floating in the water and would not sink. The cat litter reminds me of the stone dust that gets soaked with water from a wet saw. I work at a stone quarry and you can put that stuff in a bucket and the water never be clear again almost like a pollutant. Guess thats why it's against the law dump it somewhere it can leech into nearby streams. Most of it settles but the water never clears up. Ok guess that's enough rambling for now.


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2008)

Steve said:


> I've heard Kitty Litter contains Iron and is a good substitute for flourite... anyone have any info on this theory?


Just to avoid issues, let's specify that for a planted tank, kitty litter refers to the old fashioned, non scented - cheap - clay litter. NOT the clumping stuff.


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## limeslide (Jan 27, 2010)

Is there a way the filter can clean the water that was made cloudy by the litter?


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

I usually do large water changes until the water clears. I hear that I diatom filter or something like that can clear it up though. But that stuff is so fine most of it will never settle at all even with no water movement and have never experienced a filter that will clear it up. Once cleared up you will notice some clouding when planting but most of it usually clears and the rest can be cleared up with some water changes. But I really like the stuff. I am into the pond/stream bottom look and it kinda gives me that look. Between some of the stuff I failed to remove cleaning pea pebbles used and the clay my tank looked like chocolate milk and running filter didn't do anything and leaving it off didn't do anything either. Would be great to get a filter that can clear that up.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

i rinsed the kitty litter really well first. i wouldn't use it without capping it with something. tank was only cloudy for about 48 hours


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

I guess I am getting a lower quality cat litter. Just about all of the litter is mush when it hits water. There are a few pieces that stay normal possibly fired clay chunks or some sort of filler material. If your clay does not turn to mush at all then it must all be fired clay.


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## lbsfarms (Jan 30, 2003)

The kitty litter that people were using was the Walmart brand "Special Kitty" in the red bag. It was baked clay just like SMS or Schultz Aquatic Soil or Flourite. The only problem was that it was different in different parts of the country. If you got the wrong kind it would just turn to mush when put in water. Do a search on "Special Kitty" if you want to read more on it.


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

I guess I could go searching for ages for a cat litter that don't turn to mush. But once this stuff gets worked into the gravel its not so bad. I had it under gravel in a 20 long and the gravel eventually stunk into the clay material so this time I just mixed it up. Once it's kinda compacted the clouding is not as bad. When newly added it's very easily disturbed.


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

One tip on planting if you have a lot of clay is to slowly push your finger into the gravel and then slowly remove your finger then set plant into the hole and slowly push the gravel and clay towards the plant. Guess the idea of planting a tank with this is doing everything really slow. And having lots of patience.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Firestarter said:


> One tip on planting if you have a lot of clay is to slowly push your finger into the gravel and then slowly remove your finger then set plant into the hole and slowly push the gravel and clay towards the plant. Guess the idea of planting a tank with this is doing everything really slow. And having lots of patience.


Or get some tweezers... :flick:


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

Would tweezers work for pea pebble gravel?


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

just to make sure..your not using clumping cat litter right?


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## xev11 (Jan 19, 2010)

is there a brand sold in petco or petsmart that would work?


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

Sure it's the nice purrrrdy scented and clumping stuff JK. I just got plain clay cat litter from the discount store dollar general there are many grocery stores that sell it but that was the closest place that had some.


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

I'd just use dirt. It settles faster. I tried the kitty litter once. Attitudes have changed in the last few years about dirt. Now some people use a lot of it. A couple of cups in a 20 gal and you won't know it is there. If there's 2" you'll have to be carefull around it.


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

I was thinking about dirt or topsoil but not really anything available around here that I would trust using. And the ground is frozen here. May do something with dirt later on. That's what ponds have for bottom usually a muddy clay with small pebbles. I had a 10g with plain dirt once. It worked good for some plants. It was a tank that sat outside that had some dirt in it and sat around outside all summer ended up getting some sort of moss in there that did not survive under water.


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## bunnie1978 (Jan 22, 2010)

*The thing about cat litter..*

And all other cheap clay based substrate is that they are most likely VERY high in silicates.

If you can deal with the diatoms while they let out, then it's great.

I use Oil-Dri ($3.50/25lbs at wal-mart auto section) in several of my tanks, and it is GREAT!!! It's cheap, decent color, lightweight, and doesn't have sharp edges. It does turn to mush eventually, but if you set up the tank right the first time and don't spend the next 6 months tearing it down to redo something, it should hold up.


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

lbsfarms said:


> The kitty litter that people were using was the Walmart brand "Special Kitty" in the red bag. It was baked clay just like SMS or Schultz Aquatic Soil or Flourite. The only problem was that it was different in different parts of the country. If you got the wrong kind it would just turn to mush when put in water. Do a search on "Special Kitty" if you want to read more on it.


 
Which parts of the country are getting good cheap Wal-Mart cat litter and which are getting the mushy stuff? Does the packaging say if it's baked or not? Is there another store chain that has a more consistant product everywhere? (I'm trying to get by as cheaply as possible, and this kitty litter thing sounds like there's something to it, cheap or not, but I don't think I want it if it's going to be mush.) Also, what would be the ratio for mixing it with a gravel, volume-wise?


Oh, and thanks for digging this thread up again, Firestarter, it's just what I needed to see-and perfect timing, too!


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## bunnie1978 (Jan 22, 2010)

All clay substrates are baked. The difference between things like flourite or cat litter is the temperature at which they are baked... higher temperatures equals less absorbtion properties, but lasts longer for our purposes. The cat litter and oil dri that I mentioned are created to absorb things... very soft. I don't know this for sure, but I think there may be a relationship between the PH level of the water and the softness of the clay. My high PH tank the gravel seems to be falling apart considerably sooner than the others.


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

Olskule: No problem was just digging through the forums and thought I would share my experiences. I have never found any cat litter that will not turn to mush. Also I have dealt with some oil dri at work and that stuff does the same thing just takes a slightly longer time. There is a decent amount of clay pieces in the bag that don't call apart at all I guess if you bought like maybe four bags and just sifted the stuff out you could get a mixture that is just like hard fired clay.


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

*Newbie Questions*

:icon_ques So basically, the kitty-litter/Oil-Dry is simply a high mineral value clay componant with gravel added to add a less muddy and more stable consistancy once it's soaked and falling apart, right?

:icon_idea How do y'all think a small portion of sandy loam, say 20% to 30%, worked into equal parts gravel and clay/kitty-litter would work? Keep in mind I'm totally new to a full-blown, main-purpose planted tank, but it seams to me that this addition would make the substrate a little less "packy" and might provide a bit more "micro-circulation" for healthier roots, not to mention a little nutritive content from the loam part. Where am I wrong with this idea? Will this cause an algae bloom from too many loose nutrients in suspension from the loam? Would leaching the sandy loam before-hand take out enough organic nutrients to solve the bloom problem?

And another thing has been nagging me about the whole sans-undergravel filter approach: What prevents the build-up of toxic compunds created by anaerobic bacteria due to no water/O2 circulation through the substrate? Are the toxins/anaerobic bacteria simply not exposed into the water because the substrate is generally left undisturbed? What about when you're planting or removing plants? Or (unlike regular gravel alone and without an undergravel filter) is there simply not enough space between the proper substrate componants for it to colonize in quantities large enough to produce a detrimental amount of toxins?

(Sorry for being such a "Newb" :icon_redf )

I'm about to set up new aquariums, and I want to do it right, so I'm just trying to think ahead about all of this stuff that's new to me, so your experience and help is appreciated.


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## Firestarter (Dec 28, 2009)

Not sure if sand will help with the packing. Maybe some larger gravel mixed too. But in the end I think all the clay will just end up all packed on the very bottom.


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## lbsfarms (Jan 30, 2003)

I was lucky and found the right kind of "Special Kitty". It never turned to mush, never packed always stayed the same. The tank is dry now but I know it was set up over 2 years. I don't know if Walmart has changed their way of making the stuff, it doesn't cost much, why don't you just go and buy a bag, put some in water and see what happens. If it's going to turn to mush it won't take long.


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## bunnie1978 (Jan 22, 2010)

If you can afford it, some of the really great long term options are Flourite, Eco complete, the amazon soil stuff, the new stuff that greenleaf aquariums has that looks like eco complete, soil master select (hard to get) and turface pro league grey. If you want to do it right - those are some of the best options.

If you want to do it cheap, oil-dri, cat litter, and another thing I'm trying in a new tank right now, Black Diamond blasting grit (can be used as a cap)

I don't have much review on it just yet though.


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

bunnie1978 said:


> If you can afford it, some of the really great long term options are Flourite, Eco complete, the amazon soil stuff, the new stuff that greenleaf aquariums has that looks like eco complete, soil master select (hard to get) and turface pro league grey. If you want to do it right - those are some of the best options.
> 
> If you want to do it cheap, oil-dri, cat litter, and another thing I'm trying in a new tank right now, Black Diamond blasting grit (can be used as a cap)
> 
> I don't have much review on it just yet though.


"Can't pay for it" and "rather not pay for it" are two different things. I'm a cheap-skate and enjoy defying the corporate guys who want to charge many times what it actually costs to produce something, just because hobbyists are willing to pay alot for it. (Ok, I'm a conspiracy theorist, too. So sue me.) That doesn't mean I cut corners to the point that I end up with squalid results, I just like to find inexpensive alternatives that work well.

With that in mind, I was looking at/handling (fondling?) some of the pricey specialty substrates in my simi-local FS the other day, and it occured to me that it was strikingly similar to the lava rocks currently sold for use in gas grills, but crushed to a much smaller size, so I'm wondering......:icon_idea



lbsfarms said:


> I was lucky and found the right kind of "Special Kitty". It never turned to mush, never packed always stayed the same. The tank is dry now but I know it was set up over 2 years. I don't know if Walmart has changed their way of making the stuff, it doesn't cost much, why don't you just go and buy a bag, put some in water and see what happens. If it's going to turn to mush it won't take long.


You may be exactly right about that, they are always looking at the "bottom line", and if the muddiness isn't an issue for small-scale wetness as cat litter, the baking process may have been a superfluous added expense. In which case, too bad for us. Now some other company will figure that out, put the baking process back in and charge 10X the original Special Kitty price for the "new" specialty product. (Man, I'm cynical today, aren't I? :icon_twis ) Oh, wait! I just remembered! There's a kitty-litter plant in the county next door from me! Um, forget I said anything, folks.

BBL, I have something to look into.....:icon_mrgr


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

*Stable Kitty Litter Brand*

On a linked page I found on this site (http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm), I found where they tested various substrate components, including two brands of kitty litter, Special Kitty (Wal-Mart) and Harts. They found that the Harts, while having less iron and magnesium, is stable and doesn't crumble when wet. Also, it has a very high Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) (which helps alot in storing and releasing nutrients), much higher than many commercially marketed substrates, except, I noticed, for a very few highly formulized specialty products for planted aquariums.

I've always avoided their products in the past, but I'm thinking "Harts" on this one. Now I just have to visit the "cheap" grocery and dollar stores and hunt it down. I love it when "cheap" is better!

Olskule


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## bunnie1978 (Jan 22, 2010)

The link above is very old information... and not tested for how long a substrate lasts with good results. ANY of the montmorillinite clay substrate alternatives will have similar CEC, but the temperature it's baked at will determine how long it takes to turn to mush and how absorbant it is. Anything created to be absorbant will eventually fall apart. 

Also, lava rock rasies the PH - good for African cichlids, but not good for most plants or fish.


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

bunnie1978 said:


> The link above is very old information... and not tested for how long a substrate lasts with good results. ANY of the montmorillinite clay substrate alternatives will have similar CEC, but the temperature it's baked at will determine how long it takes to turn to mush and how absorbant it is. Anything created to be absorbant will eventually fall apart.
> 
> Also, lava rock rasies the PH - good for African cichlids, but not good for most plants or fish.


 
Your dashing my dreams, Bunnie. :icon_neut But I guess that's better than letting me have nightmares later on down the line, right? I noticed the info was from 2006, and I know brands may have changed a little in composition, but that's just right at four years, depending on the month, and if they are selling well, companies usually leave pretty much alone. 

I know some volcanic rock will have a high ash and/or sulpher content, which can affect the pH wildly, but some types are pretty stable (the extreme being obsidian, I think). Thanks for mentioning that, though; if I look at that option, I'll test the pH factor. Part of the fun in this for me is experimenting with different things, but input and the experience of others is always helpful. Thanks. 

Olskule


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## bunnie1978 (Jan 22, 2010)

I have been trying experiements to find the best cheap option for plants and fish because I lost my job 8 months ago, and since then went from 2 tanks to 14. I tried pea gravel (raised the PH) regular dirt (really raised the PH) and Oil-Dri. I'm not unhappy with the Oil-Dri, but plant to replace it when I can afford it with Turface Pro League Grey. It's about $20 for 25 lbs I believe. I can order it on their website and have it delivered to the store where I pick it up... no shipping cost.


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## christybell22 (Feb 3, 2010)

what about that stuff they use for oil spills? it looks like kitty liter. is it the same?


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## bunnie1978 (Jan 22, 2010)

That's what Oil Dri is. Montmorillinite clay substrate. 
Made out of the same thing as kitty litter. I've heard that there is less dust in it than kitty litter, but I don't know that for certain. It's also extremely cheap... $4 at walmart for a 25lb bag. Volume is enough to do a 29g tank with one bag easily!


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## christybell22 (Feb 3, 2010)

right. and it doesnt have the scent and all the other stuff kitty liter has in it. the clumping stuff


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

bunnie1978 said:


> I have been trying experiements to find the best cheap option for plants and fish because I lost my job 8 months ago, and since then went from 2 tanks to 14. I tried pea gravel (raised the PH) regular dirt (really raised the PH) and Oil-Dri. I'm not unhappy with the Oil-Dri, but plant to replace it when I can afford it with Turface Pro League Grey. It's about $20 for 25 lbs I believe. I can order it on their website and have it delivered to the store where I pick it up... no shipping cost.


Your pea gravel must have alot of calcareous rock in it. I've gotten "pea gravel" from garden and undustrial sources that was basically the same as "natural" aquarium gravel (but much cheaper), and it was properly inert. Again, that just shows the varied sources and products that fall under the same common name. Much of the natural aquarium gravel I see now seems very large to me; I'm having a hard time finding smaller gravel and regretting letting the moving guys dump what I had in my 55 gal. tank a few years ago. 

But I know where you're coming from, working on projects under a limited budget. It's just not fair; when we have all the time to do what we want to do, we don't have the cash flow, and when we have the cash flow, we don't have the time!

I'm thinking of going up to some land I own and collecting some creek gravel/sand very soon, and probably some exposed red clay. Of course, then I'll have to bake (or boil?) the gravel/sand to sterilize it before using it (I think I saw 1 hr @ 200 degrees somewhere on here, but I'll probably go for 2 hrs or more, depending on if I bake it by the pan or the roaster full. Or, better yet, use a meat thermometer to check the center temperature.) Does anyone know if the clay needs to be sterilized?

Olskule


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I've had excellent results, but it's a bit messy.
There;s not a whole lot in Cat litters, it's just clay. Mixing some soil in with it and adding other things can help add fertility. 

Then you are are somewhere along the lines of ADA AS, wetland clays etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

*Kitty Litter Topping Flavors*

What do you use to top your kitty litter substrate with so that it doesn't get disturbed and cloud the tank?

Olskule


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