# Euro Bracing a 40 gallon breeder



## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Has anyone ever tried derimming just the top of a tank and then using euro bracing instead of the rim? I'm thinking about making this a new project, but I don't want to try and tackle something that I can't handle... What do you think? I would be doing this on a 40 gallon breeder. I've heard that 40 breeders are a little too bowish to handle the pressure of no rim at all, so I was thinking this would be a good alternative? 
Let me know what you think,
Joshua


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

I think I saw a thread over on reefcentral, all about removing center braces and putting in euro. Starts to be more trouble than it is worth IMO.


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Yeah, I guess I'm just looking to see if anyone has done it so I can know what thickness to use for the glass and if I need to do all sides, or just front and back.


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

You could get 1/4" strips cut and seamed (edges relieved) at a glass shop. 2" on a 40B. On a down-side, it can cut down the tank's workspace more than you think if you're fussing around in the tank quite a bit. But honestly, you would be doing it to simply cover the jagged edges under the plastic rim. Eurobracing a 40B doesn't add much if anything to the tank's structural integrity, it would be more of an aesthetic preference. If it's done well, it can really add to the tank's overall appearance, but it's largely a personal choice.

But even if you do have the strips cut for you, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who hasn't worked with silicone before. The whole process isn't for the faint-of-heart.


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

I'm not faint-of-heart by any means, however, you don't think that eurobracing would add any structural support to the tank? I have used silicone before, however I've never used it on a tank structure. I'm willing to try though, I have local stores where I can get commercial grade silicone, and several local glass shops to cut and bevel the glass. Would I need the side braces? Or just the front and back? 

Has anyone ever tried corner bracing? Like triangles 4-5" 45 degree right triangles on each corner?


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

If the tank is made without a one-piece top rim that includes a center brace, than the manufacturer deems a center brace wouldn't add any structural integrity to the tank. Would it make it stronger? Sure. The height of a 40B is what makes a center brace unnecessary. By "faint of heart" I was really referring to the absolute mess that working with fresh silicone can become........in a hurry, lol! If you decide it's a go, just have plenty of paper towels handy and be generous with them. Blue painter's masking tape is absolutely golden. Tape off all the joints before applying any silicone and press the silicone into the joints with your finger.........with one pass. Remove the tape while the silicone is as wet as possible, peeling away from the joint. If it starts to set, the edges will just get ragged, so working fast is pretty critical.

Cut some cardboard to size and just lay it up on top to make sure you'll be OK with the finished product. 

On a 40B just the front and back should be fine, but you can make it about iron-clad if you do the sides as well with overlapping strips.


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Bushkill said:


> If the tank is made without a one-piece top rim that includes a center brace, than the manufacturer deems a center brace wouldn't add any structural integrity to the tank. Would it make it stronger? Sure. The height of a 40B is what makes a center brace unnecessary. By "faint of heart" I was really referring to the absolute mess that working with fresh silicone can become........in a hurry, lol! If you decide it's a go, just have plenty of paper towels handy and be generous with them. Blue painter's masking tape is absolutely golden. Tape off all the joints before applying any silicone and press the silicone into the joints with your finger.........with one pass. Remove the tape while the silicone is as wet as possible, peeling away from the joint. If it starts to set, the edges will just get ragged, so working fast is pretty critical.
> 
> Cut some cardboard to size and just lay it up on top to make sure you'll be OK with the finished product.
> 
> On a 40B just the front and back should be fine, but you can make it about iron-clad if you do the sides as well with overlapping strips.


Yeah. Ill call some local fish guys before I attempt it. But I'm an engineer so DIY is pretty natural. I'll probably end up, taping joints leaving a 3/8" gap for the silicone on the inside of the tank. I think ill do 2.5" wide strips on the front and back 3/8" thick. Depending on how thin the glass is on the tank I may do a 1 inch side strip to add a little bite for the hang on overflow that will be on the side. I'm pretty confident this will work out fine. I've seen reefers use this method on much larger tanks. 

Thanks so much for all the help
Besides taping. Does anyone else have any tips for using silicone?
Joshua


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

pianofish said:


> Thanks so much for all the help
> Besides taping. Does anyone else have any tips for using silicone?
> Joshua



Humidity can be an issue in La., but probably not this time of year. 

Have LOTS of fresh razor blades handy and be generous with them.

Buy some 400 grit sand paper and very lightly wipe a small piece over the surfaces and edges to be siliconed. Any old silicone you missed will show up as a light haze.

Once you've got all the old silicone off, wipe the areas you're going to silicone with acetone. 

Work fast and do your best to get every seam with one pass.

A 40B is probably 3/16" glass, maybe 1/4". No need to eurobrace with anything thicker. 1 1/2" wide should be fine, just take care handling the strips; it's easy to snap them.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't think I'd try it if the glass is under 1/4" thick.

I've disassembled a few tanks to reclaim the glass. Wear gloves and expect sharp edges. Add to BushKill's list 100 grit sand paper. I like the black sanding discs as the heavy paper backing holds up better on sharp glass. 

Carefully sand the exposed edges. A sanding block will help. I simply tack the 100grit disc to a pc of 2x4".

Most people can get the edges cleaned up. If you a fanatic about presentation, understand no one can get the glass as smooth as a grinder/polishing machine at a glass shop.

Good luck & post some pics.

I build my 41g Rimless from a old 70 that had 5/8" glass, it's a rock most likey straighter that my rimed tank.


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

Dogfish brought up an incredibly important point. Once you take the rim off, you'll be dealing with all unpolished edges under there. Aside from facilitating things like glass tops, canopies, etc. the plastic rim negates the need to polish those edges at the factory. Definitely 100grit to knock down those edges and corners before moving on.

Don't be astonished if there's a chipped edge under there.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The braces should fit inside the tank, not sit on top. Silicone, as a cement, has by far the most strength when in tension, not in shear. That will leave the unfinished top edges of the tank visible, so it is possible that the appearance will not be what you want it to be. When making the braces you will leave clearance at the ends so it can fit in. I have no idea what the optimum thickness of silicone should be, for the best strength while still being possible to assemble.

I derimmed a 15 gallon tall tank a few years ago, and was pleasantly surprised to find the top edges didn't look bad at all. All I had to do was break the corners with a silicone carbide sharpening stone, and it looked fine and wasn't at all hazardous.


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

fwiw, if you're eurobracing a stock tank that wasn't built with a centerbrace in the top trim, I would simply go with what looks better to you. Braces inside or out, the bowing will be imperceptible. Even after you knock down the stock edges under the trim the finish on the new strips will look completely different. So if aesthetics are a key here, I'd simply suggest that you position the eurobracing strips on top. While knocking down the sharp edges under the trim is certainly important, the end result for most may not be that visually appealing.


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