# 125g Sump setup



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

When it comes to a sump I always think bigger is better. If you can get it/fit it where it needs to be, I'd say 29 is on the small side for a 125 gallon tank. But for sumps, I think taller/deeper is better so if your only choice is a 20 or a 29 go for the 29. A 50, 55 or even 75 would probably end up being a better choice in the long run.

Keep doing your research. Overflows are exactly as the name implies. Your tank water will overflow out of your display tank through these holes and down into your sump; and yes just one sump. I dont have intimate knowledge of that particular tank but I suppose you could probably re-purpose one of the overflows as your return.

when it comes to freshwater setups the positioning of the dividers is not all to critical. At the very least you'll want to separate your media compartment from your return pump's compartment. And yes, the basic idea is measure the glass, cut to size, and install with silicone. 

The size of the pump needed is going to depend more on what method/device you choose for the overflows than the actual size of the tank itself. You'll want to try and match the pump to the flow rate that the overflow produces. If you go with the stock "plumbing kit" there should probably be some literature or something that lists the GPH of the overflow.

I have no complaints about the sicce pump I use on an african cichlid setup that runs on a wet/dry sump. I honestly dont know what size/model it was exactly; but all pumps should list their maximum GPH. You'll want something that can hopefully pump more GPH than your overflow drains and can turn down the flow rate on the pump to match.

And, sure you can throw a light over the sump and grow some plants. You could even keep fish, snails, shrimp in the sump if you wanted to and if you had a way to prevent them from making into the chamber that houses your return pump.


----------



## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

Usually the built in overflows are plumbed with one overflow pipe and one return pipe in each overflow, so you probably will have two returns if you use the stock overflow plumbing. I am in the middle of setting up a sump system (20 gallon sump on 50 gallon tank) and have all the pieces put together, just don't have the cabinet ready yet. I bought a Mag Drive 7 pump and I am not impressed so far - it's much noisier than my current canister filter - I've heard that they quiet down after a week or so but we shall see. 

I've been looking into the Sicce Syncra line as a possible replacement if I need it. I would think that you would want a Sicce Syncra Silent 5.0 if you are going to use only one pump to both returns - you could also use two pumps and get a smaller model, maybe two 3.0s or 3.5s. You can probably count on somewhere around 5 feet of head, assuming that you will have a 3-4 ft height difference between the water level of the sump and the water level of the tank. This would give you around 1000 gph with the 5.0, or around 500 gph each with 3.0s.

You probably also want to look at a larger tank for a sump. I would think a 40B would be a good size for a 125, and is usually available on the $1/gal sale. Keep in mind that all of your evaporation loss is going to come out of the portion of your sump that changes height with the pumping (depends on arrangement of the baffles) - if the surface area of that chamber is 1/6 the surface area of your main tank, and you usually loose 1/2" a week from evaporation, you will loose 3" in that chamber of your sump.

-Justin


----------



## Aparker2005 (Jun 4, 2014)

What about setting it up in a 29g with bigger trays like this? Could it work? This seems super easy and works awesome:

https://youtu.be/STh-UC86GA0

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Aparker2005 said:


> What about setting it up in a 29g with bigger trays like this? Could it work? This seems super easy and works awesome:
> 
> https://youtu.be/STh-UC86GA0
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


yeah you can set it up like for a wet/dry filter

as for a pump, you might want to look into Jecod/Jebao DCT pumps


----------



## ppp (Sep 2, 2015)

I built a sump using a 20gal PETCO tank. Bought glass at Lowe's - they cut it to size for me too. Home Depot did not offer this service. When you have the glass cut make sure you size them a little smaller so as to slide it in from the top rim and silicone it to the bottom and side walls. Check out Joey's You Tube "The King of DIY" - he has simple to follow instructions.


----------



## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

The dollar sale is perfect for sump intent. I agree that bigger is better on two accounts. 1) increased volume 2) more media options. If you have the space below, get it as big as you can. For a 125g, the footprint for a 55g tank should be there. If not and your capable of building your own stand, I'd go that route for you can tailor it to your liking.

There are several overflow systems out there. The tank your describing is considered "Reef Ready" Although you can certainly use it, the better systems are the Bean Animal and the Herbie. You can't do a Bean with corner overflow but you could pull off a Herbie. Research the two so that you will see what I am referring to. I only use Bean Animal on my systems. It's the most reliable but also involves the most plumbing. You can check it out in my diy stand link.

As far as what's needed can vary per setup. You can have all that you have listed or you can eliminate the dividers. I would do more research on sump setups to know your options. Currently I have two setups. I have sump pumps and a diy canister filter only on my 4 tier rack system and I have one that is a wet/dry that has dividers and it drains into a lower shelved sump with diy canister filters for my 90g display tank. This too is in my diy stand link. Keep in mind that your pump is also dependent on your head height. This is the distance your pump is able to pump water vertically. For example 10' max head means that your pump can pump water vertically 10' in the air before it shuts down. The thing to look for is the amount of water it pumps at each +foot of elevation. 0' head could pump 600gph, 5' could pump 250gph and 10' could pump 0-80gph. Know what your looking for. +1 for the Jebao pumps. They are fairly quiet, uses half the wattage as other pumps since it's a DC pump, its controllable, soft starts, has a high head for its power usage and it kicks out the most gph pound for pound for your dollar.

Glass. Most would say don't go lower than 1/4" for your baffles in your sump. Avoid using glass from Home Depot or Lowes if you can for they sell 1/16" window replacement glass. It's very thin and will not take much pressure. As far a getting it cut, you size it 1/8"-1/4" smaller on the sides. When you place it in your sump, you should have a 1/16"-1/8" gap on each side for your silicone to set in to cure. Silicone all sides that touch glass as much as possible. +1 on on Joey. He is definitely the king of DIY in this hobby. I have learned quite a bit from him and because of him is why I do so many DIY type things now. It's considered cost saving and widening your horizons, lol.

As far as a refugium (plants in the sump), honestly I think it's a waste for a FW tank. Refugiums are primarily for SW tanks. The purpose is to grow saltwater plants to rid of nitrates. SW tanks do not have the ability to consume nitrates so by making a refugium, the tank has a way to reduce nitrates. In a planted tank, your plants perform the task that a SW tank can't. Now you can certainly do one for many others before you have, but its another algae prone tank you have to maintenance with the addition of plants and lights. Some use it to isolate plants or fish as a quarantine. I strongly advise not to use it as a quarantine tank though. The same qt water will also cycle thru your main display. If there is a disease or issue, the whole tank gets it. Some use refugiums for breeding purposes or just to hold extra plants. A sump is typically out of sight so it will require more monitoring if you make another aquarium out of it. A refugium also takes away space the smaller the sump is. Less space for equipment and media. This is another reason to go bigger on the sump if you can. Now if you have your mind set on a refugium, there is no right or wrong about it. I am just listing a few points to consider.


----------



## Aparker2005 (Jun 4, 2014)

Are baffles necessary? 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Aparker2005 said:


> Are baffles necessary?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


i didn't bother with baffles in my sump, i just have egg crate tray holding up my plastic pot scrubbies and then i have a drip plate made from a plastic tote (drilled 0.25" holes) on top of the scrubbies and it's working fine

29g sump on my 55g setup, think the media area is about 16" wide. I used about 100 or so pot scrubbies (think that's $25?)


----------



## AKnickolai (Nov 30, 2012)

I have an 80G tank with a 29G sump and it is the way to go. As far as internals don't bother with baffles. Put a few pieces of Poret foam in there and you're done. Poret is pricey for foam, but worth it - it lasts a LONG time. I've got a sump that uses 3 3" sections of foam 10, 20, 20ppi I think. Anyway, the leading piece is 10ppi and is the only section I've had to rinse in about 1.5 years (I cleaned it once).


----------



## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

I like the 40 breeder as sump. If your tank in 6' I would go with two returns and two over flows. I know this seem overwhelming but it's very simple way to filter your water. It's just matter of gravity. Once set up a sump is very easy to keep up. I spend less time taking care of them compared to canister.


----------



## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Your tank looks something like this:










Right? 72"Lx18"Wx23"H.

Does it have two drilled holes in each side? You have many options. With two drain holes you can opt for a herbie overflow, which is a pretty fair setup. 

Herbie Overflow Plumbing Guide for Quiet Reef Aquariums - gmacreef

Check that out. That is my suggestion in one corner of your tank. Then, on the other corner, have two return pipes. I suggest a 55g tank for a sump too, if your stand can accomedate it. I have a 55g under my 75g and it makes a world of difference as far as media and equipement space. A 29g will struggle to fit the equipment, much less media, for a 125g tank. The general rule is no less than 1:4 (sump:display) but more is better for a sump. As for the sump design, I would go with some baffles despite 'not being needed'. But keep it simple. The baffles just keep water from circumventing your filtration and keeps your filtration separated. Porous foam is great mechanical filtration (20/40ppi is what I use) and pot scrubbies/shower scrubs is great bio media. A couple of heater and a Jebao (or w/e) DC return pump is a great setup. I do suggest using one corner as the drain corner and the other as the return corner. It will make plumbing the sump easier. You want your drains to be as vertical as possible because elbows introduce turbulence and air pockets. 

Quick list of points:

1. Larger sump (55g if possible)
2. Vertical drains in one corner (herbie overflow style)
3. Simple baffles to keep media in place (even light diffuser will work)
4. Effective media (porous foam and scrubs)
5. DC return pump (fully adjustable)
6. Dual returns (for optimized flow)
7. Include tubing to minimize vibration and maximize flow around bends (better than PVC elbows or 45s)
8. Multiple smaller heaters for redundancy and safety (include a heater controller too)
9. Continue your research.


----------



## Aparker2005 (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks! What about doing a 3 tiered drawer diy sump? Thought about doing that as well. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

With a 3 tier, you get good compartments for media. Easy to access and change out. Your pretty much dealing with a wet/dry system though. It can be pulled off however water disturbance may be an issue. In a 3 tier plastic bin (I assume this is what your referring to), there is much more opportunity to off gas in my opinion. Minimizing this may be a bit more of a challenge than a tank sump setup.


----------



## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

You can make a wet dry sump. They are cheap and promote good oxygen exchange. I'm just not a fan of them personally. I value the additional water volume quite a bit.

I made you a quick diagram to represent the setup I was trying to explain. 



Here is a 3D model I made for my own personal use. It is a 75g sump for a tank I'm working on. I used this sump design in the doodle I made for you, but this is a little bit more detailed. 



Baffled sumps are easy to design and work with. A wet dry filter is probably cheaper and just as easy though. You'll need a higher stand for a tiered wet dry.


----------



## Aparker2005 (Jun 4, 2014)

Perfect thank you! 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Aparker2005 (Jun 4, 2014)

Another question. I'll have 2 holes on each overflow box. Do I need to use both and have 2 drains and 2 returns? The flow gph of the overflows is 700gph. Or should I just use 1 each and cover up the other hole? Thanks for the help! I'm starting to get it more. Those diagrams really help 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Aparker2005 (Jun 4, 2014)

And last thing for now is how do you prep it to not flood for power outages? 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Freemananana said:


> I value the additional water volume quite a bit.


I pulled off both for my main display. I made a 20g long wet dry and it dumps into a 29g. Actually I had no choice but to do it this way in order to have any type of volume for evaporation/reserve. You can see what I am referring to in my latest update in my diy stand thread. I couldn't fit a 55g in like I originally planned because I miscalculated the interior width by 1". This prevented me from being able to slide the 55g in via a side door. So multiple tanks for my setup is what I had to go with.

Bump:


Aparker2005 said:


> Another question. I'll have 2 holes on each overflow box. Do I need to use both and have 2 drains and 2 returns? The flow gph of the overflows is 700gph. Or should I just use 1 each and cover up the other hole? Thanks for the help! I'm starting to get it more. Those diagrams really help
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


You can plug them if you will. I siliconed a thick piece of glass over a 1 1/2" hole and implemented an upper overflow drain instead of a lower draining overflow system. You can also use a bulkhead and just plug it. You can use it to drain your tank via a strainer or if you ever want to use the hole again, just unplug it. If you go with the bulkhead, make sure it's a sch 80 one though. There is a lot more pressure on the both of the tank vs the upper portion. 




Aparker2005 said:


> And last thing for now is how do you prep it to not flood for power outages?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Leave that to the design of the overflow. It still works the same way as if power is on. What ever water overflows over the weir will drain whether the power is on or not. The thing to account for is the extra water that will drain. This is why the sump should not be filled to the trim because if there is no siphon break in your overflow system, all water that is above the return from the pump in your sump, will drain back down to the sump. I believe the rule of thump is to account for 1" of water per inch of water that is over the overflow in your main tank if you do not know the exact drainage amount.


----------



## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I would definitely use both drains and both returns. In my diagram, you will see I utilized both drains. One is a FULL SIPHON that will pull maximum flow all the time. You can add a true gate valve to adjust the full siphon and that is highly recommended. The other is an overflow that will set the water level. Quick things to note: A full siphon is SILENT and an overflow is only truly quiet when flowing minimal water.

As for the flood, that is easy. You engineer your sump water level to handle the water loss from the main display tank. For me, I set the water in the main tank to the level of the overflow. This takes zero effort because water will travel down the overflow when it goes any higher. For you, this is the corner weirs. Next, fill the sump to the maximum level without overflowing. I leave about a inch or two between the water level and the rim of the sump. Then turn on the pump. The water level in the sump may lower slightly depending on how efficient your drain setup is. Then, when the power goes down, you are safe. This also lets water evaporate without damaging your return pump. All evaporation will happen in the LAST baffle of the sump, which is where your return pump is located.

Prepping for power outages is stupid easy. Prepping for clogged drains is MUCH more difficult. You have two concerns, the sump drains and the return pump fries itself and the main tank overflows. I utilized an automatic top off sensor that will stop the return pump if the main tank water level rises too much.

EDIT:
@flight50, there are many ways to get the job done and I'm pretty sure our opinions are really similar. OP could definitely learn a lot from reading your thread.


----------



## Aparker2005 (Jun 4, 2014)

Great information. Thanks a ton. I've still got plenty of time to really decide if I'm gonna go sump route or 2 canisters. Sump is sounding better. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

A sump is better, really. You can easily run canisters though and it is an effect means of filtration. However, sumps are extremely customizable.


----------



## osmel1992 (Jun 6, 2014)

Would anyone know if the sump world have an effect on the co2 available for plants?

Sent from my SM-G925K using Tapatalk


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Any added turbulence increases CO2 consumption by allowing gas to escape. Regarding baffles, any under over design will most likely cause cascading water and loss of CO2. However, there could be a hidden benefit to that loss of CO2 if expense is not a deal breaker.

My CO2 is controlled by a PH monitor and at night, with lights off, the CO2 would shut down but the PH would still drop from the set point of 6.5 down to 6.1. With a recent sump change, the CO2 runs more often but the PH is now between 6.5 and 6.6 for most of the day and night.

I keep KH around 20 so even though the CO2 is off, fish respiration was causing the PH to drop. I have about 60 fish in a 90g. My thought is that at nighttime, the CO2 loss due to turbulence maintains the set point and when it hits 6.6, the CO2 quickly knocks that down.

Now you could accomplish the same by adding "timed" mechanical aeration or turbulence that turns on when the lights go out.


----------



## aja31 (May 25, 2013)

If you can afford it, bigger is always better. However don't let that deter you if you can't afford a 55g sump. Even a 20g sump will hold 18g more water and 10x the filter media of a canister filter. Plenty of filtration even at 1:5 size. The only concern with a smaller sump is the evaporation, which can be reduced with a glass cover on the tank to negligible. 

Baffles aren't strictly necessary, however they can be used to reduce noise, CO2 loss, increase useable filtration area, and keep things organized.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

aja31 said:


> Baffles aren't strictly necessary, however they can be used to reduce noise, CO2 loss, increase useable filtration area, and keep things organized.


A single baffle with an under design would be neutral for CO2 loss as the entire sump would be at the same level. But how does that reduce CO2 loss compared to no baffle? If there are more than one baffle, one has to be an over design and unless the pump side was kept at the exact same level as the input side, why wouldn't the water cascade over and create splash in the process. Kindly explain.

Thanks


----------



## aja31 (May 25, 2013)

Bobbybills said:


> A single baffle with an under design would be neutral for CO2 loss as the entire sump would be at the same level. But how does that reduce CO2 loss compared to no baffle? If there are more than one baffle, one has to be an over design and unless the pump side was kept at the exact same level as the input side, why wouldn't the water cascade over and create splash in the process. Kindly explain.
> 
> Thanks


It would depend on how you do it. A lot of people who don't use baffles have the water splash directly onto the filters as it exits the overflow pipe. This outgasses a lot of CO2. If you start with a over baffle the water can exit the overflow pipe submerged, then fill the chamber and spill over to the filter chamber with very little or even no drop, reducing the splashing significantly.

Either way you can seal the sump, though I think it is easier if you have multiple compartments that you seal separately. If you want to seal a no baffle arrangement you need to cut a hole for the overflow pipe which makes it harder to remove for cleaning and other maintenance. 

Overall I think sealing the sump will help more with CO2 loss than anything else.


----------



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Baffles are not necessary in a freshwater tank. Baffles are only necessary in a salt water tank because a protein skimmer requires a set working water level and the baffles maintain a working water level.

Off gassing in a sump is negligible at best. Just do your best to reduce water splashing (turbulence). If you have to run 4bps instead of 2bps to compensate for the splashing so be it. CO2 is cheap.

In regards to power outages, you need to fill up your sump to a certain height let it run and then pull the plug. Once the power is out, you will see how much water drains from your main tank into your sump. Once you have figured out how much water drains into the sump during an outage, you can then draw a small line on the sump to indicate max water level in your sump.

I'd go sump all the way instead of canisters. I hate priming canisters and constantly switching out specific media. My wife also hates when I drip water all over things. 

A sump does not have to be complicated. Essentially all you need is a filter area and a return pump. A lot of people try to way over complicate their sump design in thinking it works better. The harder the sump is to clean and maintain the less fun you will have with your hobby. KISS. Keep it simple stupid.


----------



## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

ForensicFish said:


> Baffles are not necessary in a freshwater tank. Baffles are only necessary in a salt water tank because a protein skimmer requires a set working water level and the baffles maintain a working water level.


Freshwater sumps can certainly benefit from baffles, it's a great place to put sponges for one. Constant water level chambers are nice for mounting certain equipment like heaters and diffusers, or for having your drain lines exit at a specific distance below the water surface - really important for noise and automatic siphon restarts.


----------



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

prototyp3 said:


> Freshwater sumps can certainly benefit from baffles, it's a great place to put sponges for one. Constant water level chambers are nice for mounting certain equipment like heaters and diffusers, or for having your drain lines exit at a specific distance below the water surface - really important for noise and automatic siphon restarts.


Benefit sure, but not required.


----------



## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

ForensicFish said:


> Benefit sure, but not required.


I'll agree with this. I had the drain dump below the water surface, a large chunk of foam, then bio media, and lastly my heater and return pump.


----------



## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

ForensicFish said:


> Benefit sure, but not required.


Well if we want to argue semantics, they aren't required for salt water tanks either, they're just beneficial.


----------



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

prototyp3 said:


> Well if we want to argue semantics, they aren't required for salt water tanks either, they're just beneficial.


I am not sure what you mean....

Baffles are required in a saltwater pump to maintain a certain water level for the protein skimmer to work. If you do not run an in-sump skimmer, baffles in the sump are NOT required. Hang-on back protein skimmers sway a bit to both spectrums depending on where you put the hang-on back. If you put it on the back of the display or main tank, then no, baffles are not required due to the display tank always maintaining a constant water level. If you place the hang-on back skimmer on one of the sides of the sump, then yes baffles are required so water does not evaporate below the pump.

Since planted tanks do not require skimming, baffles in the sump are NOT required. While yes, baffles have some benefit for isolating areas of the sump for specific reasons and could possibly reduce water turbulence, but they are still NOT required.

Anyway, I hope Aparker is still dabbling in this topic. Be careful using poret foam so close to the return section. I currently have a piece of poret foam separating my "refugium" area in my freshwater sump. It has worked great up until snails have started hatching and crawling into the return section. There is a large mass of snail s*** in my return section. So until I remove the foam and put in a section of glass, I will always end up with snail s*** in my return area. Sigh....


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

ForensicFish said:


> In regards to power outages, you need to fill up your sump to a certain height let it run and then pull the plug. Once the power is out, you will see how much water drains from your main tank into your sump. Once you have figured out how much water drains into the sump during an outage, you can then draw a small line on the sump to indicate max water level in your sump.


I use a high quality check valve in the return line so the only water that drains in to the sump on power off is the overflow volume and whatever is in the hose between the box and the sump. The water level goes up 1/4" at most. I mention this to the OP because if he does not use baffles, or perhaps uses only one, he would want the working height to be as high as possible to keep whatever media submerged as water evaporates.


----------



## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

ForensicFish said:


> I am not sure what you mean....


Just that salt water doesn't require baffles, because not all salt water tanks use skimmers, that's all.


----------



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

prototyp3 said:


> Just that salt water doesn't require baffles, because not all salt water tanks use skimmers, that's all.


Ok.


In regards to what bobbybills stated, a check valve could be a good idea. You can also drill anti-siphon holes (above the water line) in your return plumbing to prevent a siphon starting in your return plumbing and sucking all the water back down into your sump. Again, it is all about the design. If you keep your return plumbing up around the water line, it shouldn't really be an issue. But, if you decide to submerge the return plumbing the main tank to achieve certain water movement then I would recommend a check valve or drill anti-siphon holes.


----------



## Bratmanxj (Jul 25, 2013)

Most people over-engineer freshwater sumps (I'm an engineer :surprise. 75g tank with BeAnAnimal overflow into a 20g sump with 3 sheets (10 ppi, 20 ppi, 30 ppi) of Porret Foam and a Rio3100 return pump. Pump will soon be replaced with Jebco DC 6000 and working on a new manifold and 2nd return, this way I can remove my circulation fans and gain the extra filtration.

Every 3 month I pull one sheet of foam, rinse, and reinstall; vacuum the mulm in the sump, and vacuum the sand in the tank. 15 min and a single 5 gal bucket of water.

P.S. I also have the sump drilled with an overflow and a constant water change drip system.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

ForensicFish said:


> In regards to what bobbybills stated, a check valve could be a good idea. You can also drill anti-siphon holes (above the water line) in your return plumbing to prevent a siphon starting in your return plumbing and sucking all the water back down into your sump.


The check valve with a true union ball valve between the check valve and the return allows for intentional tank draining for water changes as well as lowering of the water level for in-tank maintenance, and also maintenance of the pump. I worry more about a hole getting blocked than the check valve getting stuck although periodic maintenance of either one is a smart habit.


----------



## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I had an anti siphon hole in my return line. No issues for 6+ months. In that time, I went through a dozen or so check valves for different things. Airline, water, tubing, PVC, etc. Check valves, in my opinion, are garbage. The expensive ones are less prone to failure. But they are expensive. 

Bratmanxj has a very similar setup to my original sump. I just used foam as the barrier wall, but I had a mesh bag with scrubbies in it for bio media.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

All mechanical items need periodic inspection and maintenance, no doubt. A high end true union ball check valve is no exception and if plumbed with flexible hose and a true union shut off valve, offers additional flexibility in water changes and removal of water from the display tank for other reasons. For tanks that are drilled where the return hole is 2" below the water line, an anti-siphon hole may not be the best option. For a non-drilled return line, which this marineland tank that the original poster may have, where the return pipe is over the rim, a hole may be a suitable option. No argument there.


----------



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Bobbybills said:


> All mechanical items need periodic inspection and maintenance, no doubt. A high end true union ball check valve is no exception and if plumbed with flexible hose and a true union shut off valve, offers additional flexibility in water changes and removal of water from the display tank for other reasons. For tanks that are drilled where the return hole is 2" below the water line, an anti-siphon hole may not be the best option. For a non-drilled return line, which this marineland tank that the original poster may have, where the return pipe is over the rim, a hole may be a suitable option. No argument there.


Just because the return hole is drilled 2 inches below the water line doesn't mean you can't run plumbing (pvc 90 degree elbows for example) slightly above the water line.

Your sump setup and plumbing should be as simple as you can make it to start off with. Only when you find certain designs do not work as well as you want them to, do you get more "complicated" in your setup/design. Occam's Razor: The most simple solution is usually the correct one. 

happy building


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

ForensicFish said:


> Just because the return hole is drilled 2 inches below the water line doesn't mean you can't run plumbing (pvc 90 degree elbows for example) slightly above the water line.


No argument about the ability to add a riser or raise the height of output closer to the surface, but additional plumbing in the tank takes away from the reason why many people do freshwater sumps and why tanks are drilled.


----------



## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

I don't even personally think an anti siphon hole is necessary if you set up your returns in the right way. I have mine so the one nozzle is only about an inch below the overflows. So I have my sump filled in a way (its 45g) that when the pump is cut out, all of that water, plus the water in the overflow box, can drain into it, and I still have another 6-7 inches of space before it would start to overflow out of the sump tank. Set up that way, no check valve is needed, and no anti siphon hole is needed. There is always a risk of a snail being positioned right on top of that anti siphon hole at the wrong time. Same with a check valve failing. Why risk it?

Baffle wise, I like it because it keeps the water from being turbulent in the sump. Keeps it very calm, and in that way it keeps from having excessive CO2 gas off. In addition you then always have chambers where the water level is constant. Which is perfect for your heater and other items where if they were exposed to air, you'd have a big problem on your hand. It also keeps your media fully submerged in this aspect. Plus it gives you a nice section to organize your media and keep it in the same spot.










Thats my sump, picked it up used for 120 or something like that. Is an ADHI 45g Berlin Sump. Old picture when it was first set-up with all my old media floating around with egg crate to keep it from bobbing above the surface.










And thats my overflow. The tank is similar to yours, but I only have one overflow (120g tank), and the overflow only drains to the bottom of the main return pipe. I used the second hole in the overflow box as my second emergency drain and I just have the return coming over back of the tank.


----------

