# Johnson18's 20L- Apistos & Pencilfish! 2 Posts of New Pics!!



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

This tank has changed a ton since this first post. Check it out a couple pages in, latest reboot was in Dec. 2016, around page 20!

Here's the current tank stocking as of 10/1/2017
2(1m/1f) x F1 Apistogramma erythrura 
4 x Corydoras sterbai 
13 x Nannostomus marginatus - Dwarf Pencilfish
6(I think?) x Caridina multidentata - Amano Shrimp
6(2m/4f) x Aphyosemion australe Cap Esterias BSWG 97/24 - Lyretail Killifish
3 x Carnegiella strigata - Marbled Hatchetfish

Current tank specs(4/2017):
Tank: 20 gallon long
Light: 36" BuildMyLED XB custom spectrum with adjustment dial
Filter: Eheim 2215 & two dual sponge filters
Heater: idk it's big. 
Substrate: MGOCPM(5/2014) mixed with Flourite Black Onyx Sand to add higher CEC & capped with black diamond blasting sand















[Original first post from 2012]

So I figured it was about time to start a journal! Since I built a new tank today, I will start fresh! This is the third planted tank I've got running in my house. This 20 long was purchased along with another 20L to be a shrimp tank.... well I purchased a plant package from Crispino Ramos and realized I didn't have enough room in my other two tanks for all the plants. That is about the time this tank sprung to life! 







So I suppose I will start with some specs!







Tank: 20 Gallon Long 30"L x 13"W x 12"H



Light: Coral Life T5HO Dual lamp. 10,000K & Actinic (eventually change to 6700K if I keep the tank set up this way.)



Substrate: 15# of Flourite Black Onyx Sand w/about 15-20lbs of Black Diamond Blasting Sand on top.



HOB filter that I had left over from a different project, rated for 30 gallons.



DIY CO2: 2L soda bottle run to a 32oz overflow bottle then run into the HOB filter intake.







Now for some plants! Here is what I've got!







_Ludwigia sp Red hybrid - 5 stems_



_Syngonanthus sp Belem - 5 stems_



_Ludwigia palustris - 10 stems_



_Blyxa alternifolia - 5 stems_



_Rotala indica or Ammania sp Bonsai - 5 stems_



_Hydrothrix gardneri - 5 stems_



_Staurogyne repens Tropica 049G - 6 stems_



_Ludwigia brevipes - 10 stems_



_Ludwigia inclinata var verticillata Cuba - 3 stems_



_Pogostemon stellatus Narrow Leaf - 5 stems_



_Bacopa sp Salzmannii - 5 stems_



_Persicaria/Polygonum sp Porto Velho - 5 stems_



_Persicaria/Polygonum sp Sao Paolo - 3 stems_



_Limnophila aromatica - 3 stems_



_Poaceae sp Purple Bamboo - 3 stems_



_Hygrophila sp Tiger - 10 stems_



_Rotala rotundifolia - 10 stems_



_Heteranthera zosterifolia - 20 stems_







Will be updated with pics soon!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So here are a few of the set up photos! Sorry for the iPhone pics....it's all I've got.

The CO2 looks like it's getting going! 

I'm going to start dosing liquid ferts in the morning!


----------



## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

Thank you for sharing your journal with photos. Instant aquascape with good lay-out that will eventually look like a Dutch style aquascape.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

My plans for this tank are to use it as a grow tank. I would like it to have a full lush look to it.

I have never spent much time growing stems, so this will be a learning experience. I would love some input in how to successfully grow some of these plants. I have been told by one of my local guys that I've got a few difficult plants to grow. 

This is also the first tank I've used co2 with. I am excited to see how the results turn out!


----------



## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

Tanks with stem plants need regular fertilizer dosing (macros and micros about 3 times a week). Some of these stem plants grow much faster and the tops need to be trimmed and re-planted (older bottom stems don't look good). Trimming helps in the equal distribution of light on all the different species planted together. I have observed that there are some species that don't do well in some of my tanks. I'm puzzled because they all get the same care. When it happens, I just move it to another tank hoping that it will grow better. There are also some species that I had to try 3 times (just because a plant dies doesn't mean that it could never grow in one of my tanks). Failure is not an option, so I say.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The few stems I've grown in the past have done very well. I've got a pretty good dosing regime that I will be sticking to with this tank. Many of my plants are already showing signs of growth after just one day! Many of them are pearling! This is something totally new to me as this is the first time I've used co2 on a tank and not Excel.


----------



## jakesebastin (Jun 20, 2012)

Very good setup there. The pictures are nice and cool. Very good 20 gallon new tank there. Keep posting the photographs it s helping us designing our grow tank.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So this tank was mistreated for a few months...  I broke down another tank and semi combined it into this one, so it not is scaped and has some mollies for now. pics to come soon, no more grow tank!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

This tank has been through several stages since I last updated this. It is currently semi scaped, kinda.... 
I most recently moved some plants around, raised and hung the light above the tank, allowing me to add a HOB filter! Doing this probably doubles the flow of the tank. 

The HOB filter is going to be fully planted! I took out the standard filter media, filled the bottom of the HOB with a fluval biomedia. I topped the media with a cut to fit filter sponge with java moss for the plants to root into. So far I've only got a couple plants, lucky bamboo, zebrina, some riccia, and few random clippings. 
Here are a few pics!







Current FTS

















































I've got some continued work on this tank and the HOB too! 

Let me know what y'all think about the HOB set up! Any plant selections?


----------



## jarvitron (Aug 6, 2012)

That wandering jew is gonna be great. Have you looked at it under LED illumination? That dusty gray patch pops off the leaf like silver glitter fingernail polish. I have it in my fish room under an LED and it's amazing, out in the front room under sunlight it's just kind of a nice gray variegation.

In my planted HOB (it's an Aquatop), I took out the filter media cart and left the "bio waffle", made a bag out of mesh and filled it with LECA (hydroton), put an airstone in the bottom. Instant flow-through DWC grow bed on the back of my tank. I think next time I might use HygroMite, I hear it has a better CEC, naturally kills mites, and has more colonizable surface area for bacteria than LECA. The airstone should help keep more terrestrial plants from root rot (so far so good), I'm going to get a larger one for my goldfish tank and try Chinese Evergreen in there.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I haven't had the DIY co2 set up on this tank since I moved in August! It will be resurrected in the next day or so! Pics to follow! 
I'd also like to put in a carpet of crypt parva! Thought? 
I still haven't really decided what fish to ultimately keep in this tank. Hmmmm...... I got some Otocinclus a few days back for my 55, I am thinking about getting 5 or 6 for this tank too!


----------



## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

i see you've fallen prey to the same thing i have. too many plants, not enough time/knowledge to keep them all going.

I bet you had a few fast growers that out did the rest? happened to me in my 20g long too! 

its not that great of a tank for fast growing stems unfortunately.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

scapegoat said:


> i see you've fallen prey to the same thing i have. too many plants, not enough time/knowledge to keep them all going.
> 
> I bet you had a few fast growers that out did the rest? happened to me in my 20g long too!
> 
> its not that great of a tank for fast growing stems unfortunately.


You are totally correct! My huge thing is not enough time! I have figured out that I don't really like spending the time on properly maintained stems! I'd just rather not keep them! Perhaps in the future just not at the moment!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I went by petsmart to pick up some Otocinclus but they only had one. I'll wait until they've got more in stock. :/ 
I think I'm gonna order some crypt parva from Gordon, I think he was selling them $4 for about 10 nodes. I'm trying to decide how many I should get... I know they are pretty slow grower, I was thinking maybe 4 groups of them.... Any thoughts or suggestions?? I'd like to fill a decent size foot print in the tank with them, but I don't wanna buy so many that once they start growing the area is already too full.... Please feel free to share your experience with parva...


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20 Long With Planted HOB*

I picked up 8 Otocinclus a couple weeks ago, one died within a day but the rest seem to be just fine. The plants in the HOB filter are slowly starting to show new growth. I picked up a pot of c. Wendtii FL sunset as well as c. Lutea. 

Still haven't decided on a foreground plant...

I am considering making this into an oto and shrimp tank. I know, how original for a 20L... Sounds like a plan to me. 

More to come!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20 Long With Planted HOB*

Just a quick update! 

The otos are still doing well! I haven't added anymore plants. I think I have decided that I am going to go for a Crypt Parva carpet. I've moved around a few other plants, mostly a few of the C. Lucens to one of the front corners. 


The plants in the HOB are doing well. I was letting some riccia grow out in my 55, I transferred over a little which was added to the overflow. 

I'm definitely going with shrimp in this tank, as that was the whole reason for buying it!! Since the tank really isn't set up for anything besides Neo's I have been checking out some of the higher grade RCS or the orange/pumpkins. I'm thinking that I will get a starter group from a seller here then add another group from a different seller. I want to get a good mix in the gene pool. 

Now, for what people really want on here, pictures!























































Any suggestions on how to best get rid of the mulm on the substrate? When I syphon out water I try to get it but end up sucking out more of the sand then anything!


----------



## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

More flow/better filtration will take care of that.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20 Long With Planted HOB*

I'm already running two filters, both rated for at least 30 gallon tanks. Hmmm... Maybe I should move one of them...


----------



## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

The filter you have isnt the best for flow rate, not too mention the mesh will slow it down a lot.


----------



## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Make sure you get alot of C. Parva if you are looking for a good carpet.
When they say a slow grower they mean it. Often times too when it is first planted a good portion will melt. So buy more than you think that you need. I plan on making a Crypt only 20 long around Easter and thats what I plan on doing as well.
I like the HOB "pot" btw its pretty sweet!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

kwheeler91 said:


> The filter you have isnt the best for flow rate, not too mention the mesh will slow it down a lot.


I'm also running a Fluval U3 on this tank as well. I might see if moving the location of the U3 will help. It is currently on the opposite end of the tank as the HOB, behind the DW.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

pianofish said:


> Make sure you get alot of C. Parva if you are looking for a good carpet.
> When they say a slow grower they mean it. Often times too when it is first planted a good portion will melt. So buy more than you think that you need. I plan on making a Crypt only 20 long around Easter and thats what I plan on doing as well.
> I like the HOB "pot" btw its pretty sweet!


Thank for the heads up about the Parva, I've had my eye of it since I got back into the hobby a couple years ago. Getting more then I think I'll need is definitely the plan!

The HOB still needs some attention, it could use some more plants. I'm pleased with its growth though! 

What part of LA are you from?


----------



## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

I'm in Lafayette. Going to college here and trying to get back into all this fishy business haha


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20 Long With Planted HOB*

Nice, I spent a couple years in New Orleans.


----------



## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Ah cool man, Well I'm gonna make sure to subscribe to your thread. Can't wait to see what you do the tank and how its gonna evolve. I'm trying to take in many different 20 gallon long designs so I'll be ready come Easter to make mine


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20 Long With Planted HOB*

So, messing around with my planted HOB really has me thinking. I am seriously considering adding a few hanging planters to this aquarium, I guess turning it into more of a riparium. I don't want to add so many that the plants in the substrate suffer a lack of light. I've checked out some of Hydrophyte's supplies and threads on the topic. I haven't figured out which plants I want to go with yet. Just kind of thinking out loud.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20 Long With Planted HOB*

I picked up another 8 otos today, along with a small amount of dwarf water lettuce, and what I think is a pot of C. Parva. I say I think, because it had no tag, it could be some little bitty C. Lucens I suppose...  I'm ordering parva and shrimp over the next few days! Yay!


----------



## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Congrats man! I can't wait to see how the parva turns out! Good luck with the planting haha. That's gonna be a lot of little plantlets


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Shrimp have been ordered!! 40 Painted Fire Red Shrimp from Sbarbee! I had originally been thinking about going with orange/pumpkin neos, but decided I'd see how the PFRs do, I can always set up another tank later, I mean I've got enough of a selection sitting around the house, 10, 20L, 20H, 50cube. Haha.
Gordon is checking his Parva stock for me, so we will see... 
There are freakin otos everywhere!!! Haha... I may end up moving some into my 55.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm thinking about adding a small powerhead to this tank to see if it will help with the mulm. I think the smallest power head any of my local stores stock is a 500 GPH. Will that be too large/too much flow? I think I'm gonna go ahead and grab one, if it does end up being too much I can order a smaller one and toss the 500 into my 55.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I bought a simple water circulation pump today, smallest I could get was a 500GPH. My first thought is its WAY too much flow. I've been moving it around to try and get as much of the mulm off the substrate as possible, it seems to be working well. I cleaned out the Fluval filter, it was in need of a good cleaning as its not a real common occurrence. 

I finally decided I am going to go ahead with the riparium plants! After a few messages back and forth with Devin/Hydrophyte he helped come up with a package for me. He was extremely helpful and very prompt with his responses to my barrage of questions. I told him what I was trying to achieve and he pointed me in the right direction. After looking through the list of compatible plants, I told him a couple that I thought would work. Devin came up with an idea for a group of plants and suggestions on how to plant them to create the best look. So, here are the plants that I've got on the way!

dwarf Cyperus
Laguncularia white mangrove
Lindernia - plant around white mangrove because the mangrove will grow slowly
Lysimachia 'Outback Sunset'
Ruellia 'Katie'
TWO Pilea aluminum plant
TWO Fittonia - one for trellis raft and one fore HOB
I'm pretty stoked about these plants and the prospect of turning this into more of a riparium! They will ship Tuesday, putting them here about Thursday!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've got tracking numbers for all packages that are on the way for this tank! Woo hoo!

I just went to town on Amazon. I purchased a TDS meter, pre-filter sponges, an API FW Master test kit along with a phosphate test, a fluval shrimp net as well as 00 gel capsules for osmocote root tabs! All just basic stuff, but I'm excited about it. Haha...

A quick update on the tank, circulation pump is way too strong! I've got canyons forming in my substrate. :/ I just keep redirecting the flow in hopes of clearing out more of the mulm. It's getting there. Dang, I guess I should have bought a smaller water circulation pump during my amazon shopping spree. Hahaha...


----------



## im2smart4u (Dec 7, 2010)

johnson18 said:


> A quick update on the tank, circulation pump is way too strong! I've got canyons forming in my substrate. :/ I just keep redirecting the flow in hopes of clearing out more of the mulm. It's getting there. Dang, I guess I should have bought a smaller water circulation pump during my amazon shopping spree. Hahaha...


It may not work for you, but one way I have found to reduce flow from a pump was to point it towards the glass. By the time the water bounces off the glass into multiple directions, it isn't as strong a current.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I will give that a try as these shrimp are gonna get tossed around like a skiff offshore! Haha thanks for the suggestion! 



im2smart4u said:


> It may not work for you, but one way I have found to reduce flow from a pump was to point it towards the glass. By the time the water bounces off the glass into multiple directions, it isn't as strong a current.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So my shrimp arrived today, which is awesome! Super fast shipping! They look great too! Already bright red which is great considering most are pretty dang small. They are on a drip right now. I will post some pics of the whole process once it is complete. 

I've gotta play with the powerhead prior to releasing the shrimp. See if I can calm the flow a little.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

You can also try angling the stream up at the water's surface to disperse it and that can create some nice ripples.

If you will have shrimp with a 500gph pump in the tank you will need a good intake sponge with a fine pore size.

Your box of riparium stuff is on the way.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, I don't have to worry about the little power head too much today..... The ball that snaps into the suction cup mount broke off while adjusting the angle. I was barely applying pressure... I'll take it back the next time I'm out near petsmart.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Your box of riparium stuff is on the way.


Wooooohoooooo!!! I seriously can't wait! I am extremely excited about the contents of that box! I'm going to be stalking the mail man like a kid waiting for Santa! 

Thanks again for all your help figuring out a plan for my tank!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Shrimp arrived, and many died once in the tank. Test kits showed up yesterday but it was a crazy day so I will be testing the water momentarily. All the riparium plants and supplies arrived too. They are planted and hung. Pics to follow!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFRs With Planted HOB-Riparium Plants arrive this week!*

So it's been a crazy few days. The PFRs arrived prior to my test kits. Which, unfortunately, meant that my incorrect params lead to many deaths. I spent most of my day today focusing on correcting water parameters. I used RO water mixed with a small amount of tap water to do a 50% water change, fixing my water issues.

While I don't see any shrimp, I know I didn't fish out anywhere near 40 dead shrimp. :/

On a good note, my riparium plants and supplies arrived from Devin! I planted everything late last night. Note to self, unpack everything prior to beginning planting! I got two planters planted before I found the root tabs. So I took them apart and added the root tabs. I planted things as suggested by Devin. I haven't decided if I like the arrangement of the planters yet. So I am open to suggestions!

I've gotta make new cables for hanging my light. The old level is too low, the only other height I can currently hang the light is way too high.

Now time for pics!

Well, it was time for pics, but my photo stream hasn't updated from my phone to my iPad.... So I guess I've gotta switch to my phone...


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFRs With Planted HOB-Riparium Plants arrive this week!*


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

20L tanks, like 40G Breeder tanks, always seem to get that odd 3/4 view of the tank unless you put them on a stand that is a foot or so higher than tank stands usually are.

Going with plants rising out of the aquarium is a great option to take advantage of the unusual viewing angles that these tanks usually end up with.


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Many powerheads/submersible pumps have a ton of intake/outflow connection options because they are used for multiple things.

What I would suggest is to adapt a canister filter 'spray bar' to hook up to the outflow of your powerhead. Run the spray bar across the back of the tank (or from front to back on one side depending upon how you want the flow in the tank) like you would one of those old bubble wands that we all had in our tanks as children.

You can build them from PVC as well but it won't look as nice. Might be able to do the whole thing (if you already have a drill and small drill bit) for under $10 if your powerhead has an attachment that mates the size of the outflow tube to the PVC pipe (or you find some sort of cheap plumbing adapter that does the same thing). Home Depot has some PVC pre-cut to 24" I think for like $2 so in a 30" tank you wouldn't even have to mess with cutting the pipe. Just get a plug/end cap for the far end, something to attach it to the outflow on the powerhead and try to find some generic aquarium suction cup C clamp things to hold the PVC pipe to the wall of the aquarium.

This would actually be more effective for creating current in all parts of the tank as well as greatly decreasing the blast in any one location.

--------------

If you have a powerhead with a good sponge filter pre-filter on its intake (I love the ATI Filter-Max Pre-filter ones personally and they have adapters for a ton of angles and tube diameters) and you place it on the opposite end of the tank from the HoB and find a way to spread the flow out you should be in great shape in terms of filtration and I wouldn't even think that you would need the fluval internal filter any longer.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

madness said:


> Many powerheads/submersible pumps have a ton of intake/outflow connection options because they are used for multiple things.
> 
> What I would suggest is to adapt a canister filter 'spray bar' to hook up to the outflow of your powerhead. Run the spray bar across the back of the tank (or from front to back on one side depending upon how you want the flow in the tank) like you would one of those old bubble wands that we all had in our tanks as children.
> 
> ...



I've got more of a circulation pump(think what you'd see in a sw set up) than a powerhead. I will look at it to see if it can be adapted much. Though now that you've brought up the idea, I could probably build a spray bar for the U3! Hmmm.... Something to consider... My biggest issue w/ the Fluval U3 is that it is difficult to hide. I considering keeping an eye out for a cheap or used canister filter. I'd like the ability to add an inline UV filter/starlizer or co2 items in the future if I wanna go that route. The other option is to go with a basic dual sponge filter...


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

madness said:


> 20L tanks, like 40G Breeder tanks, always seem to get that odd 3/4 view of the tank unless you put them on a stand that is a foot or so higher than tank stands usually are.
> 
> Going with plants rising out of the aquarium is a great option to take advantage of the unusual viewing angles that these tanks usually end up with.


Thanks I can't wait to see how the riparium plants fill in! They are already starting to show a little new growth, which is totally awesome!

I am sure this is just the beginning of my long adventure with the whole riparium concept!


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

The great thing about riparium plants is that they aren't limited by CO2 like submersed plants so they are probably easier and faster growing in many cases (I would imagine).


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice work planting that stuff up. Now you just have to wait for it to grow in. 

Did you plant the _Pilea_ and the _Fittonia_ into the trellis rafts? I can't tell from these pictures. They should be planted with the stem base just right through those holes in the trellis rafts. As they grow up taller you can take cuttings with several leaf nodes each and plant back into the same trellis rafts. That way you will have lots of stems and plants covering very well. 



johnson18 said:


>


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Nice work planting that stuff up. Now you just have to wait for it to grow in.
> 
> Did you plant the _Pilea_ and the _Fittonia_ into the trellis rafts? I can't tell from these pictures. They should be planted with the stem base just right through those holes in the trellis rafts. As they grow up taller you can take cuttings with several leaf nodes each and plant back into the same trellis rafts. That way you will have lots of stems and plants covering very well.


I didn't to start with, I have since replanted them as suggested by you. I had a friend come by today, who really enjoys looking at my aquariums. She was amazed by the new riparium plants & look! I'm really pleased with it as well.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So I've been thinking and I have decided I am going to pull the amazon sword plant that is behind the driftwood. I am going to replace it with several Crypt. Balansae plants! I think with the right placement it could create a really cool visual effect! 

I've also currently got several bunches of different java ferns sitting on a big section of the drift wood. I'm thinking that I will move them out of the tank and cover that area in sübwassertang. I want to shift the driftwood just a little to help create a better layout, by using the rule of thirds...

Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions on both of these ideas or the aquarium in general are always welcome. That includes constructive criticism!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I look forward to seeing updates.

What kinds of fish did you say you have in here?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*



hydrophyte said:


> I look forward to seeing updates.
> 
> What kinds of fish did you say you have in here?


Otos....there may be a few PFRs left after the water quality fiasco last week. I've got some more PFRs on the way.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Good news! I found a shrimp!


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

susswassertang can collect detritus and it can take a long time to acclimate and start growing in a new tank in my experience.

I like it, don't get me wrong, but just wanted to point out that it is one of those ones that probably won't look as good as it does in photos for you, atleast not right away.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Have those riparium plants started to root in their planters yet?

If you haven't already you might like to scoop out some of that duckweed. It can look nice, but if it covers more than about 1/3 of the water's surface it can hinder gas exchange and also cast a lot of shade.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*



hydrophyte said:


> Have those riparium plants started to root in their planters yet?
> 
> If you haven't already you might like to scoop out some of that duckweed. It can look nice, but if it covers more than about 1/3 of the water's surface it can hinder gas exchange and also cast a lot of shade.


I think that they have, I am definitely seeing new growth! What is the best way to check to see if the plants have started to root? 
The duckweed was mostly removed(as much as one can successfully remove duckweed) shortly after these pictures! There is still some dwarf water lettuce but not very much!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I do like a little duckweed floating around, but it spread so fast.

If your riparium plants are growing you will start to see new white roots through the sides of the planters.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> I do like a little duckweed floating around, but it spread so fast.
> 
> If your riparium plants are growing you will start to see new white roots through the sides of the planters.


Yep, they are definitely growing! There are a couple plants that seems like they haven't faired well. A couple of the plants that were planted around the mangrove have shriveled up and died, but only two out of 5/6 plants. I took those two out today trimed the bottom which was dark and slimy and replanted the tops. The mangrove propagates have started popping a little higher out of the gravel. The Cyprus and Kelly both have new growth, looks like the Kelly is showing bloom buds which is a bit of a surprise. The outback sunset seems to be taking the longest to adapt to its new home, no new growth but its definitely not dying.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I wonder which one died back(?).

The _Ruellia_ 'Katie' and _Cyperus_ are both real good growers.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Lindernia is the one that probably half of what you sent died.


----------



## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Johnson....nice set up, man! Wait until you start getting flowers on the Ruellia.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*



crazydaz said:


> Johnson....nice set up, man! Wait until you start getting flowers on the Ruellia.


Thanks man!! I really appreciate hearing that I'm doing something correct! ;p


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So just a quick update! No pics as my iPhone finally kicked the bucket over the weekend. Not to mention I always forget to buy batteries for my real camera!

The sword was removed from behind the driftwood. I replaced it with close to 10 small Crypt. Balansae! They are melting pretty badly, as has all the balansae I've ever dealt with. No worries. It just takes time. I'm trying to keep the tank clear of the dead plant debris.

A couple clumps of java fern that were sitting on the low end of the driftwood were also removed. I see a RAOK in my near future!  

Finally moved the heater to a spot it's no longer in your face visible. This aquarium looks like it is slowly coming together. If I could just find some C. Parva for the foreground!!!!

I have been testing this tank on a regular basis and all looks good. My TDS continues to remain on the higher side of the PFRs comfort zone, but within reason. I have been doing a been doing a 5 gallon +whatever has evaporated(usually about a gallon) once a week. I am refilling the tank with RO water remineralized with Shirakura CA+.

I regularly see at least two nice little shrimp. I would guess there are more then I think still in the tank. I feel like I am ready for another small batch of shrimp. I started to get more a couple weeks ago but decided I was better off waiting longer to make sure I was ready for more shrimp.

The riparium plants have really started to take off! Pictures to come within the next day or two!!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I look forward to seeing updates.

Yes I have observed C. balansae to be very "melty" as well. But it grows back again once it has nice and steady conditions. It seems to grow best in hard water.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

So here are a couple shots, post water change. I still need a couple more gallons, I am getting more RO water tomorrow. I adjusted the position of the driftwood to make it more aquascape friendly. In my opinion at least. 

Still phone pics, but I just got an iPhone 5 today so hopefully they'll be a little better....



































































































Let me know what y'all thinking! Thanks!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

johnson18 said:


>



This pic was actually last week when I planted the C. Balansae! It's pretty melted right now...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Those riparium plants look good. Just keep shining the light on them and you should see them starting to fill in.

You need something in that left-most planter.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*



hydrophyte said:


> Those riparium plants look good. Just keep shining the light on them and you should see them starting to fill in.
> 
> You need something in that left-most planter.


Agreed! The planter has the white mangrove in it. All of the plants originally planted around it died off... :/ I think I'm going to get some bacopa to add in somewhere.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

I keep talking about C. Parva, when I do get some I would like to fill in the area painted below... It original pic is a few posts up!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Oh I would just leave those white mangroves alone in that planter. If you like you can rearrange the planters so that that one is between others and hidden. It takes a little while to get started, but once it grows up the white mangrove really is a cool plant.


----------



## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Beautiful plants!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Oh I would just leave those white mangroves alone in that planter. If you like you can rearrange the planters so that that one is between others and hidden. It takes a little while to get started, but once it grows up the white mangrove really is a cool plant.


Yeah, the mangroves will be left alone. Although I probably will move the planter as suggested. I am going to put a Bacopa species on a trellis raft, I'm kinda thinking Colorata or Salzmannii. I believe I saw this done in one of your builds...



GMYukonon24s said:


> Beautiful plants!


Thanks!



Oh yeah! I've got a few more PFR shrimp on the way!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Here a few shots after a 9 gallon water change. I know 9 gallons sounds a bit odd, but I pulled 5 gallons out and then added water until the tank was full! 




















You can see I added a few stems to the last floating trellis.










The Fittonia seems to be doing well. 

I finished the water change prior to going to class. I just got home from a 3 hour college algebra class, so I'm probably going to run all my water tests sometime this evening. Gotta do something to clear my mind of all the meaningless letters and numbers! Haha


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So I didn't test my water after the 9 gallon wc until today. 
Done with API test kits...
PH 7.0
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5.0-10.0ppm 
Phosphate 1.5ishppm
Sera test..
KH 1-2
TDS 227
Temp. 76* F

Looks alright to me. Thoughts? I may look into lowering the temp just a little...search function here I come! Haha...

I've got some more shrimp coming, hopefully today, and probably another package tomorrow or Friday. 40-45 PFRs total. 

Hopefully I can take a study break later and update with pics of shrimps.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

I received 20 Painted Fire Red shrimp today. I drip acclimatized them over about 4 hours. They are in the tank and seem to be doing well! 

Here are some pictures...













































Let's hope this goes better then the last go around!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

More shrimp arrived today! 24 or so... They look good! I lost one netting them out of the container... It was little and got smashed.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice work!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*



hydrophyte said:


> Nice work!



Thank man!!

So I rearranged a couple of the rip planters. I moved the white mangrove into the middle of things. The Lysimachia "outback sunset" never took off, slowly just withered away. I replaced it with some emersed grown Bacopa salzamannii this evening! Hopefully it adapts to the riparium planter well! I placed it on the end that was looking a little empty...

Here are a couple shots!





























What is this plant? I got a stem from someone months ago...









I also dropped the height of my light about 8 inches lower. I made a new set up to hang my light from coated ss wire fishing leader that I've got for making shark rigs...




















Here's a random shot of my new emersed set up!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I like that light hanging solution. You could probably sell something like that. 

I haven't tried that Bacopa in a riparium planter, but B. monnieri makes real nice carpeting lawn effect. It works best to put many stems into each planter. If you trim the stems when they grow past the trellis rafts they will grow more bushy and cover really well.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> I like that light hanging solution. You could probably sell something like that.
> 
> I haven't tried that Bacopa in a riparium planter, but B. monnieri makes real nice carpeting lawn effect. It works best to put many stems into each planter. If you trim the stems when they grow past the trellis rafts they will grow more bushy and cover really well.


The tank pictured above is where I got the idea for using Bacopa. So would you recommend using it on a trellis raft instead and replant something different in the planter? 

I originally wanted bacopa colorata but I could only get a couple stems of it, so I put them in my new emersed set up to maybe grow a few more stems of it.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This is the way to plant _Bacopa._ Put several stems in the planter, then let them drape forward onto the trellis raft. You should put it next to plants that won't cast a lot of shade so that it can grow nice and thick.

I had _Limnophila aromatica_ planted the same way in that tank and you can see it over on the left side.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> This is the way to plant _Bacopa._ Put several stems in the planter, then let them drape forward onto the trellis raft. You should put it next to plants that won't cast a lot of shade so that it can grow nice and thick.
> 
> I had _Limnophila aromatica_ planted the same way in that tank and you can see it over on the left side.


Sweet! That's exactly how I did it! Thanks!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

johnson18 said:


> Sweet! That's exactly how I did it! Thanks!


There are various other emersed stems like _Rotala_ and HM and others that you could probably grow like that. You could even stick two or three species in the same planter.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> There are various other emersed stems like _Rotala_ and HM and others that you could probably grow like that. You could even stick two or three species in the same planter.


I also got a few stems of alternanthera reineckii, I planted them in my emersed tank, but I was thinking about adding them to this tank after I get them growing emersed. My plan with my emersed set up is to grow some different stems but mainly to keep crypts in hopes of them flowering.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Can anyone ID this plant? It's some sort of hydrocotyle, that's my guess anyway.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

The bacopa that I planted in the riparium planter doesn't seem to be doing too hot. I think I'm going to pull the whole planter out and move it to my emersed tank. I figure if I can get it well established in the high humidity set up, I can then slowly make the transition to low humidity. Seems like the bacopa might have a better chance of it thriving then if I just leave it as is.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

I just tossed in a little shrimp food. This is the first time I've fed them since I received them. So far I've had a lot of shrimp cruise by to check it out but only two have really stopped to eat.

I definitely need to get one of the clear feeding dishes!!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

So it's been a week or two since I last posted an update so here we go!!

The Painted Fire Red shrimp are doing great! I've got at least one berried female, who should be fixing to pop soon! Several saddled females too! I will probably add 10-20 of Speedie's Supreme Reds next time he has some for sale. I am just wanting to get a healthy variety of genes in there!

The riparium plants are really growing well! I want to add some more but I haven't figured out what types! Any suggestions?? 

So....... PICTURES!!!!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Tapatalk is being glitchy and not letting me upload some more pics easily. I'll try more in a bit!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

More pics!









































































So I think it's time to prune the Pilea and replant the tops! I've also got one of my rip planters in my emersed set up to get the bacopa well established in it! I am wanting to add some more riparium plants but I haven't figured out what! Suggestions anyone?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Any suggestions on how to trim the Pilea? Should I cut it above or below a set of leaves?? 

I'm also going to add some more Riparium plants to this set up!! Anyone have ideas on what plants to go with? I was thinking another planter of the dwarf cyprus along with some lower level plants.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

johnson18 said:


> Any suggestions on how to trim the Pilea? Should I cut it above or below a set of leaves??
> 
> I'm also going to add some more Riparium plants to this set up!! Anyone have ideas on what plants to go with? I was thinking another planter of the dwarf cyprus along with some lower level plants.


You should cut the _Pilea_ back quite a bit so that there is just one or two leaf nodes above the trellis raft. Each stem should sprout two new shoots from the base of each leaf node, so as it grows back it will be more bushy.

To replant the stems that you have cut just trim the pair of leaves from the bottom leaf node and then plant in the hole in the trellis raft.

This setup could look good with other _Ruellia_ 'Katie'. You might also like some L_ysimachia_ in there as a carpeting plant.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Here is a shot after the trim I just did! Thanks for the tips Devin!









So you are suggesting adding a second Ruellia "Katie"? That is a route I hadn't even considered! Hmmm... might actually look damn good! I am wanting something to place on the opposite end of the tank, so that might work well! I hadn't even thought about Lysachia, I've got some of that in a pot on my front porch! I haven't had much time to take a look through the list of plants you sent me as suggestions for my pond. So I've got some homework to do! Hahaha...


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

So I figured it was time for a little update! This tank has been doing very well, both plants and shrimp! I had a nice looking female that was berried about a month ago. She disappeared for about a week, and reappeared sans eggs. I finally found a baby today! The baby shrimp was maybe a quarter of an inch long. The moss in there had been doing well so I didn't really expect to see any of the young shrimp until they were at least that big. 

Btw, What is a group of newborn/young shrimp called?? Batch, clutch, litter?!?! Hahaha...

So pics!








FTS!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Ugh stupid tapatalk... Here are the rest of the pictures! Including the baby shrimp!

























And......... 
















Baby Shrimp!


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

o..O darn, I wish I saw this journal before. Looking amazing and now I have to play catch-up. 

On a side note, isn't Devin just amazing? He spent a ton of time dealing with my silly questions.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Here are also a couple shots of my 20L emersed tank!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*



OVT said:


> o..O darn, I wish I saw this journal before. Looking amazing and now I have to play catch-up.
> 
> On a side note, isn't Devin just amazing? He spent a ton of time dealing with my silly questions.


Thanks for checking this out! It's been quite a journey. Devin has been a valuable resource! I've asked him a lot of questions & always had great information shared with me! 

There is so much more I want to do with this tank! I hope you'll check back OVT!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

So I got inspired a little bit ago! I've been thinking about adding more riparium plants to this set up. One plant in particular is lysimachia nummularia, which I have in a pot on my front porch! I've not got money to get any more hanging planters at the moment, so I am going to add it to the planter that currently only has a white mangrove in it. 









I took a few cuttings out of the pot from my porch ensuring each has a few roots on it. I didn't want to risk introducing any pests from outside, so I decided to submerge them in my 55 over night. I hope that it won't damage the plants too much & will drown any pests that called the plant home! Sure hope it works! 









Well, I figure I will update things tomorrow when I actually plant these trimmings in the planter w/the mangrove!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Tossed in a piece of food earlier tonight. Haven't sat in front of the tank long enough to catch great shots of a large group feeding. Here is a shot I got after several shrimp moved off after I noticed the larger group!


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Ok, I am taking notes. 

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

OVT said:


> Ok, I am taking notes.
> 
> via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


HA! Looking at your tanks, I'm the one that should be taking notes! I like your 10, I've got one I've got mostly derimmed. I will be lucky if I can get it looking that good!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Here is the lysimachia nummularia after I planted it. I decided to cut some of the pieces, trim the lower leaves and stick directly into the floating part of the planter. The rest had the lowest leaves trimmed and stem w/roots buried in the planter. I planted them in varying direction in hopes of covering the back rim too! 

































Hope that works!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That Lysimachia creeping Jenny is a good one. It is real nice for creating a carpeting effect and hiding the riparium planters. Be careful it doesn't swallow up that mangrove seedling, because that's also a cool plant.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*



hydrophyte said:


> That Lysimachia creeping Jenny is a good one. It is real nice for creating a carpeting effect and hiding the riparium planters. Be careful it doesn't swallow up that mangrove seedling, because that's also a cool plant.


Thanks! I would definitely like to keep the mangrove seedling growing! I really like the looks of them once they are larger. I've only got maybe three or four stems of the Creeping Jenny actually planted into the planter. Most are in the trellis raft. I am hoping the lysimachia will stay lower then the wandering jew that was in front of the mangrove, allowing for more light to reach the plant.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

The Ruellia 'Katie' is doing very well! The top seems to have split to where it will be shoot leaves in several new directions. There are also a few smaller stems growing from the base.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

On a side note I got two 55 gallon aquariums for free from a craiglist wanted add I posted! One leaks the other has already been resealed! 








Two different sizes of glass have been used on these tanks!









I'm in the design stage of an aquaponics system to grow lettuces and mixed greens! I'm still keeping an eye out for a larger tank, a 75 or 90 gallon would probably be ideal!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Holy Shrimp Batman!!! I found six baby shrimp yesterday! They might have been 3/16th of an inch? I would bet there are more around, just based off how spread out these little guys were. There were baby shrimp all over the moss on the driftwood. Tiny little things! I've got another female that you can see a bunch of tiny eyes on her belly, she looks ready to pop! It is pretty exciting to see so much new life in this tank! I've been so focused on the plants, I've kinda just ignored the shrimp. I feed them maybe once a week, that's about it.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice going! I really like to see baby shrimp. So long as they have bits of algae and other stuff to eat they start to grow pretty fast.

Are those riparium plants growing for you?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB ~BABY SHRIMP 5/25!!*

The riparium plants have been showing slow but steady growth. I've been pretty pleased with them. Fittonia has been the slowest grower, the plants I got from you have only put out maybe two sets of leaves since feb. The Pilea has been growing pretty well, I trimmed it a few weeks back, the new sets of leaves are now about 1/2-3/4in in size. Only pictures I've got at the moment are about a week old. I'll try to get some newer shots.

I've also found two more berried females! Two of the nicer looking females that I've found!! It is pretty exciting to see the shrimp starting to thrive like they have! 

I'll try to remember to post new pictures once I'm no longer sitting in my biology lecture!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Those riparium plants should be groing somewhat faster than that. Have you tried putting a root fert tab in the planter?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB ~BABY SHRIMP 5/25!!*



hydrophyte said:


> Those riparium plants should be groing somewhat faster than that. Have you tried putting a root fert tab in the planter?


The Pilea and Fittonia are both in trellis rafts, with the exception of one Fittonia in the hob which is the better performer of the two. The planters have only had the gro soil(?) tabs that you sent me. I've got some osmocote plus I have been making root tabs with.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB ~BABY SHRIMP 5/25!!*

Here are a few newer shots.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB ~BABY SHRIMP 5/25!!*


























I tried to get shots of both the riparium plant growth as well as a few shots of the submersed plant growth. I would still like to add a foreground plant at some point which I've left the room for. I'm starting to see a few deficiencies in the submersed plants: a few small pinholes on some plants, yellowing of old leaves on other plants. Looked like it was time to add some more root tabs, so I added some more of my Osmocote Plus tabs. I also put one in each of the riparium planters. I have been thinking about adding some Bacopa stems into the submerged section of the tank, but I haven't figured out where I want them. I'm open to suggestions! 

I did a top off of pure RO water a two days back, which I have to do a couple times a week on top of the 5gal wc that I try to do once a week. I only bring that up because I found two dead juvies today from the clutch that I found in the last week or two. I removed the dead shrimp when I saw them. I think that leaves me with 7 or 8 out of that batch. I plan on doing a wc this evening. I know the tank has been a little warmer, around 76/77, then the usual which is about 74/75. Hopefully the wc will help. 

So even though I had two shrimp die, I found a whole new group of baby shrimp today! I saw four when I found them the first time but I haven't really spent any time looking for more. They are about the same size the first brood was when I found them. A quick glance at the tank and I counted at least three more berried females! I think I'm about to have an explosion of the colony! 

I had I few more pictures I wanted to post but tapatalk is being well, tapatalk...


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB ~BABY SHRIMP 5/25!!*

NOW the plants are taking off, some impressive healthy growth. In about a month we will have some emmersed plant trading to do.

Too many shrimp? An easily solvable problem when you have shrimp-less friends <hint hint>

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L PFR Riparium w/Planted HOB ~BABY SHRIMP 5/25!!*



OVT said:


> NOW the plants are taking off, some impressive healthy growth. In about a month we will have some emmersed plant trading to do.
> 
> Too many shrimp? An easily solvable problem when you have shrimp-less friends
> 
> via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


Thanks! I have a feeling it'll be longer then a month though! I've still got lots of trimming and replanting to do until I get the thick, lush look I want! After that I'm definitely down for some trading! 

I think by the time the temperature starts to cool down in the fall I will have plenty to shrimp to share! These are just the first few successful breedings for this colony. I'd think that by midsummer(late July as August is our most miserable month.) I will have enough to start culling for the looks I want! I'd love to add about 20 of Speedie's Supreme Reds to the mix for a little more diversity. Although it seems like every time I've got $$ for them, he is out & when he has some, I'm broke. Haha oh well, one if these days I will be back to having a decent paying job! For now I'm loving being back in school, and wouldn't take my 80-100hr a week job back for 2 times what my old salary was!! 

I've been a little torn on what to do with my 55 & I think it's going to become my cull tank. I've wanted GBR's in it & had them last fall until they died due to temp swings, but idk if I will get more. I may just focus on plants and shrimp for a while. Here is a current shot of the 55, well it's a couple weeks old...


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Ugh! I keep having juvies die after doing water top offs! Wtf?! Temps are the same & I add a little prime to the pure RO. Thoughts? Suggestions? Help!


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

What's the TDS of your RO/DI water?

Prime shouldn't be necessary.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> What's the TDS of your RO/DI water?
> 
> Prime shouldn't be necessary.


0-10. Should I be remineralizing my top off water? I have been under the impression that I should only remineralize for my WC.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The TDS of the tank is about 200-250...


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

On a positive note, the Ruellia "Katie" is working on blooming! I see two little buds at this point! Here's the one large enough to see!


----------



## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

Hey great riparium, my plants just came from Devin and I have a couple of the same ones, I'm really excited for mine to start to fill in and look nicer and more full like yours


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

No, definitely don't remineralize top-off water. That would lead to hardness and TDS creep.

Are you disturbing your substrate when you top-off? What kind of container are you using to transfer the water from the RO/DO filter to the tank? 



johnson18 said:


> 0-10. Should I be remineralizing my top off water? I have been under the impression that I should only remineralize for my WC.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Are you disturbing your substrate when you top-off? What kind of container are you using to transfer the water from the RO/DO filter to the tank?


If I'm disturbing the substrate at all it is minimal. I'm pretty careful not to. I buy my RO water from the lfs. I'm using a couple 5 gallon plastic jugs I purchased from the fish store.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

If you're only losing them right after top-offs, then something is up with the water you're using or something in the tank is being disturbed that causes deaths. At least, those are the easiest two assumptions to make.

Have you tested your top-off water for everything you can think of? Copper, etc? If everything is sufficient there, I'd recommend you don't disturb the substrate at all when topping off. Use something at the surface of the water to distribute your top off water and add it super-slowly.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> If you're only losing them right after top-offs, then something is up with the water you're using or something in the tank is being disturbed that causes deaths. At least, those are the easiest two assumptions to make.
> 
> Have you tested your top-off water for everything you can think of? Copper, etc? If everything is sufficient there, I'd recommend you don't disturb the substrate at all when topping off. Use something at the surface of the water to distribute your top off water and add it super-slowly.


I haven't tested my RO water since right after I switched, other then to verify TDS which I do every time I refill. Although I don't think I've got a copper test, but I bet my bio lab instructor might let me borrow one if she's got it, our lab has several aquariums in it...doesn't hurt to ask! I will use a plate on the surface for adding water from now on to see if that helps. Thanks for the help Jake! Sometimes it feel like I'm talking to myself 85% of the time! lol


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

bbroush said:


> Hey great riparium, my plants just came from Devin and I have a couple of the same ones, I'm really excited for mine to start to fill in and look nicer and more full like yours


Thanks! I really enjoy watching and helping it grow into a decent looking set up. What size aquarium are you working on? Do you have a journal for it? I took a quick look and didn't see one. If not, you should consider starting one! I really like being able to go back and compare to older pics and also reach out to others who may have more experience with questions. I also think being able to track your progress, remind yourself of what worked and didn't work in the past. I actually keep a composition notebook with all my water tests, layout drawings, any meds or dosing schedules, lots of things like that. I guess it's a good habit to have since I'm going to school as a bio major. Haha... I look forward to seeing some pics of your project!


----------



## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

johnson18 said:


> Thanks! I really enjoy watching and helping it grow into a decent looking set up. What size aquarium are you working on? Do you have a journal for it? I took a quick look and didn't see one. If not, you should consider starting one! I really like being able to go back and compare to older pics and also reach out to others who may have more experience with questions. I also think being able to track your progress, remind yourself of what worked and didn't work in the past. I actually keep a composition notebook with all my water tests, layout drawings, any meds or dosing schedules, lots of things like that. I guess it's a good habit to have since I'm going to school as a bio major. Haha... I look forward to seeing some pics of your project!


I know I keep meaning to start a tank journal, it's definitely has come a long ways in the last 9 months that I've had it. I'll probably set one up after I finish organic chemistry 1 this month. But my tank is a 20 gallon high. It's a great tank, i've really enjoyed it and I'm excited to add more riparium type plants.


----------



## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

Shrimp are pretty sensitive to water changes especially between extreme water differences. From what I've read you are doing water changes with tap but doing top offs with RO water(no need to add prime, RO is just pure water).

It could be that the RO water is causing a shock to the juvie shrimp and killing them. For cherry shrimp tds is not as important as consistent water quality(which also means keeping the tds at a reasonable level).

I'm suspecting the RO water is the culprit, not because anything is wrong with it but because it is vastly different from your current water conditions. If it contained copper you would be seeing a much larger die off(I would assume).

Basically it comes down to what maintenance regimen you want to have. If RO water top off is the cause of death for the shrimp(its the only variable that changes before the shrimp die) then you can change your methods and see if you find a better method.

Regular tap water changes wont bring your tds below what your tap water is but you can maintain your tds to near what your tap is and provide a more consistent ecosystem. If your tds gets out of hand( I do not even believe this is a big issue for neos) then you could try 50% RO 50% tap(de-chlorinated of course) for your top offs/water changes. 

Different things work for different people, its all about finding what works for you. From my experience all neos need is good kh/gh levels and consistent water quality(I have a 20g with 50+ cherries started from 10 and a 5g with the beginnings of a blue velvet colony).

Good news is your shrimp are breeding so you are obviously doing something right!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

My water changes are RO remineralized with Shirakura CA+. When I first got PFRs I was having issues with shrimp due to fluctuations in my tap water. So I quickly switched over to remineralizing RO water. That seemed to fix the issue and I stopped losing shrimp. After a month or so of the RO & CA+ I ordered more shrimp, which have been doing well other then these few deaths. Since I switched to RO my water parameters have been almost identical every time I've tested them.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I believe young shrimp are more prone to falling victim to metals or slight fluctuations as a result of spikes caused by substrate disturbance.

Topping off with RO shouldn't be causing a huge parameter shift unless you're adding gallons and gallons and the TDS, hardness and such are wildly fluctuating. If you're not doing daily top-offs - or if you are and it's a ton of water - try slowly dripping your top-off water back into the tank instead of pouring it all at once.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've been thinking about this a lot today. I don't have any hard evidence of this, so if I'm way out of the ball park let me know what you think. The shrimp that are dying are all juvies and are all almost exactly the same size. Looking through my water tests, I have realized that I don't have a test kit for GH. Could it be possible that my water isn't hard enough making it difficult for the shrimp to molt? While I've been semi looking to see if the death have been molt related, I can't say 100% that they haven't been as the shrimp have been partially eaten by the time they were removed. I guess the obvious thing at this point would be to get a gh test and see how that param is looking. Thought? Suggestions?


----------



## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

Hmm, well that debunks my theory. If the shrimp are dying from molting issues there will be cracks in their backs right behind where the saddle is on females(same spot on males also). Even when my adult shrimp were having molting issues and dying my juvies were not having an issue. I do not think that size of shrimp means they will all molt at similar times, although shrimp do seem to like to molt after water changes.

Never hurts to know more about your water conditions. But if you are using Shirakura CA+ for re-mineralization I would assume you have a decent GH value. A quick googling brings you this http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=190418

Seems like the best bet at this point would be to slowly add the top off water to lessen the disturbance of the substrate as somewhatshocked is suggesting. Once that issue is ruled out and if an issue remains you can proceed from there.

Only thing that is questionable is why you are only getting deaths with top offs vs water changes. If you are doing them the same way(same location in the tank where you add the water causing the same substrate disturbance which would be more during a 5g water change than a top off...)

I read through your thread it seems that you only have otos and shrimp in the tank? We can rule out predatory deaths? You mention them being eaten but I assume its other shrimp eating them.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Topping off with RO shouldn't be causing a huge parameter shift unless you're adding gallons and gallons and the TDS, hardness and such are wildly fluctuating. If you're not doing daily top-offs - or if you are and it's a ton of water - try slowly dripping your top-off water back into the tank instead of pouring it all at once.


I suppose this could be a possibility as I'm having to add between two and five gallons over the course of the week depending on what days I top-off versus add back on WC day on top of my normal five gallon water change. There are days I will add two and a half to three gallons while topping the tank off. I will try starting a slow drip for the next few top-offs. What length of time would you suggest allowing it to drip for? 30 min to an hour or much longer?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

theericafish said:


> Hmm, well that debunks my theory. If the shrimp are dying from molting issues there will be cracks in their backs right behind where the saddle is on females(same spot on males also). Even when my adult shrimp were having molting issues and dying my juvies were not having an issue. I do not think that size of shrimp means they will all molt at similar times, although shrimp do seem to like to molt after water changes.
> 
> Never hurts to know more about your water conditions. But if you are using Shirakura CA+ for re-mineralization I would assume you have a decent GH value. A quick googling brings you this http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=190418
> 
> ...


Yes, this tank is only PFR shrimp and Otos, so no real predators. 

I'm using the CA+ as directed by Mordalphus as he was the source I went through. 

I'm thinking that I should start adding my water change and top-off water slowly through a drip to see if that helps reduce issues. 

I've been thinking about building a sump out of a spare 20H for my ten gallon that I'm working on derimming. I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't just make the sump for this tank, complete with an auto top-off. Hahaha....


----------



## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

Sounds fancy but beyond my knowledge! 

I was thinking about this thread when I was doing my water changes today. Water change on the shrimp only tank is always scarier than on the fish tanks. :O


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

theericafish said:


> Sounds fancy but beyond my knowledge!
> 
> I was thinking about this thread when I was doing my water changes today. Water change on the shrimp only tank is always scarier than on the fish tanks. :O


Haha... I am pretty sure that is actually beyond my knowledge too, but that's one thing I love about this forum you can learn anything! I've never worked with or had a sump in my life, much less built my own! I think it's a great concept though, lots of filtration & more water = more stability= easier to maintain water quality! What's not to love? Hahaha... I can think of a few downsides but I really doubt I'm gonna put a sump on this tank so none of it really matters.  

I know what you mean about water changes! Doing water changes on my 55 and 3 gallon vase (both use tap) are so simple, though it is more water. I really don't mind taking the few extra steps on this tank though. This is really my main focus, as the 55 just has a handful of black neon and cardinal tetras along with maybe a dozen Otos.... Pretty boring. It just sits there and slowly chugs away growing plants.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So tonight I ordered seven pots of Cryptocoryne parva! Woooo finally! Haha I just hope it's enough to semi fill the area I want it to! I also ordered a couple C. lingua and an Anubias true nana petite. The last few will probably go into the emersed set up along with a couple parva plants. I've been wanting a parva foreground since I started this tank!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've got several Crypt nurii on the way from two different sources as well as Crypt spiralis. A few of the each will go into this tank to grow submersed while some will grow emersed.

I figure this tank is almost all crypts, other then a few things like moss, I might as well add a little more.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Has your C. parva arrived yet?

I'm looking forward to seeing how you like it and seeing how it develops in your tank.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Has your C. parva arrived yet?
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing how you like it and seeing how it develops in your tank.


Gordon shipped it yesterday! I'm super stoked about it! I've been looking forward to this for months! I spent a few months actively searching for C. parva with no luck. I'd finally just set the whole idea aside to wait a few more months! 

I've gotta move a few of the crypts around as they are getting most of the light blocked out. One C. wendtii 'Florida Sunset' in particular has lost about 75% of it's size. I can't decide if I wanna move it in the tank or if I wanna pull it and grow it emersed.


----------



## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm still here lurking also 

Hope the water changes are going a little better. I need to do mine :icon_cry:


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Wow, lots going on today! Shipping plants out, plants from Gordon arriving and.... Plants blooming!!  the Ruellia 'Katie' is blooming! This has been developing for almost a week and I've got pictures of the entire process. Sadly I've been in class this morning and now I've gotta run get water. So here is one of the most recent shots!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

theericafish said:


> I'm still here lurking also
> 
> Hope the water changes are going a little better. I need to do mine :icon_cry:


Glad you find it interesting or at least amusing enough to keep checking it out!  

I did almost a three gallon top off last night using my 24oz spray bottle! I poured the water directly into the HOB, on top of the impeller. I tried to maintain a steady, gentle flow as not to significantly increase the overall flow. I aimed for 24oz of water added over the course of about 1.5 minutes with 45-60 seconds in between bottles. This may sound a little tedious but since I've got all the C. parva arriving I used the time staring at the tank to visualize my plan for planting the parva. 

So far I've seen no sign of shrimp even struggling much less death.  woohoo!!! -hopefully not too early to say this!!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Just a sneak preview! Lots and lots of Cryptocoryne parva! Will it be enough?!? Certainly not, but I might be a decent start... I guess only time will tell.... 









A few other goodies! =D


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So much planting, so many tiny plants! Remind me again why I wanted parva? Hahaha... Actually, I'm quite pleased with how things are looking! I separated the plants out of the 7 pots, set aside the plants I wanted to grow emersed & went to planting. I pulled a few plants out of the tank, moved a few others... I think I like the layout... Along with the C. parva I added just a couple C. spiralis and some C. lutea. Well, here are the pictures!!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I know this hasn't been up long.....but.... I would love opinions or thoughts or ideas on the layout of the foreground & tank overall. I figure if I should adjust things I should do it sooner rather then later. I will try to get some better pictures of the tank tonight once the lights are on. 

My two primary thoughts about the layout(both include C. nurii) are as follows.... 
1. In the front right corner of the tank, add a couple Crypt. nurii plants. This would eventually hide the intake of the HOB. The other option would be to place the nurii just behind the parva directly next to the intake sponge.

2. Just in from the front right corner, where the green C. wendtii was prior to the parva, plant C. nurii. I kind like the little split in the front. This would give the C. Parva in the foreground a cool curve around it, which I've always envisioned. My concern with this is that over time the nurii will grow and block the light to the parva behind it creating a division of the foreground into two separate sections. 

I had an issue with a berried female last night right after the planting/rescaping & the massive water change that followed. I noticed she water on her side kinda twitching her legs. Luckily I had some tank water in a container from prior to planting. I placed her in the container & added a little RO water & some moss. Over the next two hours I added small amounts of tank water to the container. Once she was able to maintain a hold on the moss & moving around a little, I added her back into the tank right on the moss on top of the driftwood. She stayed in that same spot most of the evening pre-lights out fanning her eggs. This morning I was looking at the tank with the lights still off, she is actively roaming the tank again! I she am glad I noticed her when I did! She is a young female that is beautifully colored with an intense red, one of my favorites! 

Sadly, I knocked off the bloom of the Katie! Boooo! The joys of planting hundreds of tiny little plants! Hahaha... Oh well, there are more buds emerging!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Woo more plants arrived today! 









So excited!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So I've been trying to figure out if I want to adjust the layout of my foreground by adding some C. nurii. I think the final decision is to add the Cryptocoryne nurii to the front right corner. I hope the nurii will eventually grow tall enough to semi hide the sponge intake of the HOB. 

Pictures will happen this evening.


----------



## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Sup Johnson18,

I'm diggin the parva man, I'm contemplating ordering 12 pots for my new 10 gallon thats about to go up.... sooo tempting.... 

I think that placement wise it looks good, but just keep in mind that its going to stay EXACTLY like it is for at least a few months. Thats the reason why I want a bunch to start out with. But if you have patience, it will fill in over time.

Nurii has the potential to grow as tall as most wendtii varieties, maybe a hair smaller. SO I would imagine that given enough time it should get pretty dang tall.

Would love to see a front shot of the entire tank without the riparium part to see the pretty crypts  You could even do a left side, and then right side pic if its too long haha.

Looking good man, looking good,

Joshua


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I too am liking the parva! I'm starting to see some melting, which I somewhat excepted as the plants appeared to be emersed grown. Seeing as they were FL Aquatics Nursery there is little doubt they were raised emersed. lol. Just means the plants I put in the emersed tank are actually looking pretty good! I decided to put all the nurii I received yesterday in the emersed tank too. So, I will be planting a couple of the smaller nurii plants I received today in here. I'm only gonna have to move about five parva. I am pleased with the amount of parva I put in this tank, though I will probably add some more in a few months, idk yet.










12 pots of parva for a 10 gallon tank would be awesome! I've got a 10 I wanna set up, just finished derimming it. I was thinking more along the lines of S. repens for it though.


I've been trying to get a good tank shot but I get horrid reflections off my floor. I'm actually really enjoying all of the crypts in this layout!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

pianofish said:


> Would love to see a front shot of the entire tank without the riparium part to see the pretty crypts  You could even do a left side, and then right side pic if its too long haha.


Here's what I've got most recently!
































This is one single Anubais nana plant!

























How are these? I'm not a very good photographer.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I noticed a female shrimp acting weird today. I did a five gallon(+1gallon top off) water change immediately. I tried to remove as much of the melted crypts as I could without doing any damage to the plants. Hopefully that will help.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

This tank has been doing fairly well. Well, at least the plants have been doing well! Some of the parva melted all the way back, it'll be interesting to see how many of the rhizomes survive and grow new leaves. Most of the parva that didn't fully melt away are already starting to put out a new leaf! Pretty cool. The Ruellia katie has been blooming nonstop for the last two weeks! I think four blooms at once is the most I've seen. The blooms last one day and then wilt and die. 

On the shrimp side of things the tank seems to be all quite. Most of the time it seems as if there are only like five shrimp, until you sit down and start looking through the plants. That's about the time you notice there are shrimp hiding everywhere. There don't appear to be any berried females, but the plant mass has exploded over the last month. This makes it far more difficult to find shrimp in the shadows. 

Here are a few recent pics.


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Looking good. Where did u get the wandering jew?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I got a dying pot of it off the clearance rack at lowes last summer. I split it up between this tank and a pot on my porch. I think I started with two small pieces in my HOB & one in the pot. It has done better outside in the sun...


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

I was cruising lowes earlier. I have been looking for some locally but yeah it looks like its doing well outside


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice job blooming that 'Katie'! It looks really good. You must be feeding it well.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Nice job blooming that 'Katie'! It looks really good. You must be feeding it well.


Thanks man! I added a root tab to the planters a while back. The plants have really done well since then!


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

you are still using the coralife light? 10000k or did u switch out the bulbs? Im jsut wondering as i like how high u have it hung and it still has good light at the substrate


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

It is still the corallife t5ho with a 10,000k & 6700k bulbs.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I feel like a haven't updated this in ages! Although its really only a few weeks! My summer biology course is massively kicking my A$$!! The plants in this tank have been flourishing! Almost all of the C. parva has thrown out at least one leaf and in many cases more then that! The growth rate has actually been quite surprising. Many of the parva plants that totally died off have come back with a leaf or two. I've only dosed Seachem Florish once in the last mont. I might have dosed Excel maybe three times. The Christmas Moss that covers the driftwood has exploded too! The large Anubias nana keeps throwing out a new leaf from two areas of the rhizome, a third section of the rhizome has turned off and is just starting to show where a new leaf is going to grow! 

As far as the PFRs go, they seem to be steady, not breeding as much lately. I'm wondering if some of this has to do with the increased temp in the tank. During these hotter months I've not been able to keep the water temp below about 77-78*F. Since I planted all of the C. parva in the front of the tank, I have been placing my IAL into the back of the tank, underneath the rip planters. I think many of my shrimp spend lots of time back in this area, which is fairly dark and hard to see shrimp...

I'll try to share some pictures later today. I threw my back out yesterday, got a herniated disk, so I'm not functioning very quickly today...


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Here's a few shots of the blooming R. 'Katie'
























Shrimp


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Ok, now I am jealous. That plant seems bigger then the tank, but the flowers look soo delicate. Let us know for how long the plant continue to bloom.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Looking great, the flowers look awesome


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

OVT said:


> Ok, now I am jealous. That plant seems bigger then the tank, but the flowers look soo delicate. Let us know for how long the plant continue to bloom.
> 
> via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


Thanks! This plant really does take up the most room above the tank! It's starting to block out enough of the light that the two smaller stems of this same plant are starting to struggle! 

I just went back to verify this, but the buds started forming the first week of June. With the exception of a few days there have consistently been open flowers since then! There doesn't seem to be any sign of slowing down! The flowers really are quite delicate, lasting only for a single day prior to wilting!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice job blooming that 'Katie'. You must be feeding it really well. I only ever get random blooms on mine. Yours looks like it is getting plenty of light, too. I usually grow that plant along with taller stuff and it gets more shade that way.


----------



## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

read first to last. fantastic tank! If I had more room / time, I'd love to set up a riparium and use the water portion for a shrimp tank as you did.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

jargonchipmunk said:


> read first to last. fantastic tank! If I had more room / time, I'd love to set up a riparium and use the water portion for a shrimp tank as you did.


Thanks for checking out my journey with this tank! It's been a lot of fun watching & helping it grow along the way!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So I'm not sure what's up with this tank. It just seems like my shrimp have slowly disappeared. Maybe they just are able to hide better since the plants have been growing well. It doesn't seem like it though. I never see dead shrimp. There has definitely been a decline in the shrimp population. I rarely see shrimp anymore. 
I use remineralized RO water for water changes(try for 5gal/week, though often it's ever other week.) I do top-offs of pure RO. Every time I test my water everything looks great. I use O+ root tabs, sparingly. Rarely dose excel & flourish, don't dose any other fertz. No co2. The tank has two filters so that shouldn't be an issue. 
The plants are all doing pretty well. I've been quite pleased with their growth! 

Any thoughts, ideas, questions, concerns?


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Is there a feeding frenzy when you feed them?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

tattooedfool83 said:


> Is there a feeding frenzy when you feed them?


I've never gotten much of a feeding frenzy response, but these days it's mostly just snails. :/


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Well hopefully it's just bc it's nicely planted and they are hiding


----------



## Gooberfish (Mar 27, 2012)

Johnson, I just purchased and de-rimmed a 20L today and found this thread. Your tank is one of my big inspirations for my soon-to-be 20L riparium!

Btw, I want to plant Bacopa Carolina but will the lack of humidity not work?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Gooberfish said:


> Johnson, I just purchased and de-rimmed a 20L today and found this thread. Your tank is one of my big inspirations for my soon-to-be 20L riparium!
> 
> Btw, I want to plant Bacopa Carolina but will the lack of humidity not work?


It's nice to know I can provide inspiration for others! Thanks! You should definitely start a journal for your tank if you haven't already! They are a great way to be able to track your progress! I don't see why you couldn't use B. caroliniana in a riparium set up. You would probably want to make its transition from a high humidity emersed set up to a lower humidity gradual.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So the Katie has started producing seed pods! It had two a few days back that popped open so I pulled them off and stuck them in a container. There are now two more developing that I noticed today!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So as much as I hate to say it.... I don't think I've got any shrimp left. I've looked high and low with no success. . Idk what happened, they were doing well and then just seemed to fall out. I never found any dead shrimp either. Not sure where this tank will go from here. I'm going to concentrate on getting all of the plants flourishing. I'm going to go back to regular fertz dosing. Also going to consider adding some co2.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've been rather bummed out by this tank lately. As some might have noticed, or might not, I've been mostly absent from the forum the last few weeks. Part of this has been due to feeling totally dejected by my failed attempt(again) to keep shrimp and the total melt down of many of the crypts in this tank. A large part has been because I've been really focused on my dogs during my few weeks of down time between my summer and fall semesters. I'm the sole organizer of a local bully walk, the Columbia Bully Walk. Check it out on Facebook if you want to know more! http://www.facebook.com/ColumbiaBullyWalk Yup, that was definitely a shameless plug! Hahaha... I actually spend quite a bit of time trying to come up(& implement) with better ways to promote and grow this group. With all of the college students returning to Carolina over the last few weeks, it has given me an opportunity to gain the a lot of new people. Our most recent walk(last Sunday) had 22 dogs and close to 30 people! Woo... Haha...just getting started, this was month 7, so that's way better then the 4-8 we averaged for a few months this spring! 
Well, here is a shot of my happy dogs after playing off leash, running, swimming and getting muddy for about two hours earlier this week!









Alright back to planted tank related stuff! The crypt melt I mentioned was mostly due to me yanking out some wendtii & beckettii to share with a fellow member to help get his emersed crypt collection off the ground. I expected a little melt, what I got was almost a total, and complete meltdown of all wendtii and beckettii that was in the tank, mostly behind where I planted the parva foreground. Oh well, good thing is that it will grow back. I've got plenty of time to wait, as the tank only has snails in it at this point. Haha. I took the opportunity during the worst of the melting to pull the Fluval underwater filter out of the tank and do an extra throughough cleaning of it. The riparium plants have been doing well for the most part. The ones in the planted hob more so then others. The 'Katie' has started dropping its lower leaves, though it is still producing new leaves and a few flowers. Several of the seeds that I wasn't able to capture have started sprouting, a few in the planter and a couple are other places in the tank. 

So I am open to suggestions on what to stock this tank with.... As much as I love PFR shrimp, I can't say I've ever been successful with shrimp in this tank. Not to mention having to go pick up ten gallons of RO water every week was kind of a pain. If I try shrimp again, it will be some time, as I've got the money nor the temperatures required to get shrimp at the moment.


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Dang man. I feel bad. Keep your head up. You and your tank are an inspiration and have given me personally lots and lots of info and ideas. Did your filters have ore filters on them?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

tattooedfool83 said:


> Dang man. I feel bad. Keep your head up. You and your tank are an inspiration and have given me personally lots and lots of info and ideas. Did your filters have ore filters on them?


Thanks man! No worries, this tank will be back to growing in no time. I'm just not sure about shrimp again. I keep trying to figure out how to make this tank, or any of mine for that matter, look more like OVT's tanks... Hahaha. Those are a huge source of inspiration for me! Yup, filter have pre filters so they're shrimp safe.


----------



## CheyLillymama22 (Jun 9, 2013)

Beautiful tank and doggies! I have two pitties myself. 
Hope your crypts come back quickly for you. Sorry to hear about your shrimp.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

CheyLillymama22 said:


> Beautiful tank and doggies! I have two pitties myself.
> Hope your crypts come back quickly for you. Sorry to hear about your shrimp.


Always great to find more pittie fans! They are such great dogs!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I added a bunch of Christmas moss to the outflow of the HOB. I decided to start adding more plants to the hob. I layered the moss on top of the existing riccia. On top of the moss I added a few different plant species. Hopefully I'll get some pics in a few days.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

johnson18 said:


> So here are a few of the set up photos! Sorry for the iPhone pics....it's all I've got.
> 
> The CO2 looks like it's getting going!
> 
> I'm going to start dosing liquid ferts in the morning!


Sorry I didn't read I was just lookin at tha pics between my daughters b-day party but what substrate did u use?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've got some fluorite black onyx sand under black diamond with lots of root tabs!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I know I've not updated this journal in a few months. I've just been letting this tank do it's own thing. I keep up with top offs & WC, but they aren't super often. At the current moment it's in desperate need of a top off/WC, but my city's main water main broke last week leaving us waterless for a day, brown for a couple days after that. I've been trying to delay adding water to all of my tanks. Haha.

The only inhabitants are a healthy colony of ramshorn snails and a bunch of pond snails which I smash on a regular basis.

I have added some new plants over the last few months, both above and below the waterline. 

Well tomorrow is the last day of classes for the fall, so I will be doing work on all my tanks over the next week.... Just thought I'd provide a little teaser for now!


----------



## MadRiverPat (May 3, 2013)

Love the way this tank is looking. Hopefully getting a 20L soon and am definitely planning on going the riparium route. Today was my last day of classes as well and now its time to catch up on forums and do some much needed tank maintenance.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Those plants look happy. You should cut that aluminum plant down with a couple nodes at the base and then make a couple more cuttings for rooting with it.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Those plants look happy. You should cut that aluminum plant down with a couple nodes at the base and then make a couple more cuttings for rooting with it.


Thanks Devin! I plan on doing a trim sometime in the next week. I've already got the aluminum plant in my sights! After a full summer of blooming the 'Katie' died back, losing almost all of this leaves. It stayed that way for almost two months and has really just started growing well again in the last month. 

The black mangrove has finally started growing! it sat there with one set of leaves for months. Now its got probably 3 sets total!


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Nice tank! What is the plant with the broad green/blue leaves on the top right side?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Centromochlus said:


> Nice tank! What is the plant with the broad green/blue leaves on the top right side?


I think you're asking about the Pothos, which is growing out of the hob and along the back of the tank. The older leaves are almost solid green. Since I've been using the cfl more of the variegation is appearing.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Pothos doesn't look as blue when I wash the leaves... damn dust!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Since the water has been a little low in this tank part of the moss has been out of the water. I realized yesterday that the sporophyte generation was present! Kinda cool!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So I have been thinking about rearranging the aquascape of this tank. The Fluval underwater filter stopped functioning about two months ago. I haven't really messed with it to see if I can get it working. Kinda disappointed that it has stopped, as it's not that old! 

So what I am thinking about doing is separating the two pieces of wood, moving the larger piece to the opposite side of the tank. This would put this piece in front/under the riparium planters. The smaller piece of wood, which has the A.b. Nana attached, would be placed against the back of the back around the 1/3 point in from the left. I think this hardscape would allow more room to arrange plants in the tank. Doing this would require moving a few crypts but would allow me to leave the C. parva "carpet"(lol) untouched. 

I haven't really figured out how I want to rearrange the plants yet. I've got a random selection of stems that I've added over the last few months of replanting my 55. Several species have done better in this tank than my 55.

I've got a few stems of S. repens that are barely surviving in the 55 that I will probably move over to this tank to use as a mid ground plant just behind the parva. 

I will go snap a couple pics of this tank right now & add them in a just a minute.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The wood is not currently in the position that it has been previously. I adjusted it back a little tonight during a WC after removing the Fluval filter. 

And a shot of the tip plants after a recent trim!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's looking good! It looks like your Cyperus has started growing better. If I remember right it was just sitting there for a while.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> That's looking good! It looks like your Cyperus has started growing better. If I remember right it was just sitting there for a while.


It has been growing better for about a month now. Most of the rip plants have really enjoyed the added clamp on cfl light.


----------



## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

"Any suggestions on how to best get rid of the mulm on the substrate?"

I have a special tool for this. Don't work perfect as you need to learn how high to hold it off the bottom and even then it clogs 
some times. 
I get a length of I think it's the 3/16th inch size of this tubing. I like to use that blue silicone air tubing/w it.
I just cut a piece of the rigid tubing about 3/4 of the distance from the sub to the top of the tank and put a piece of the
flexible air line tubing onto it. This will get the mulm off the bottom if you just bring it close to it and won't drain all of your
water too fast. The mulm is lighter than the sand. Some pet shops carry it. You can cut it easily by putting a sharp knife
on the top while you role it across the top of a cutting board to "score" it and then just snap it in two.

http://www.petmountain.com/product/...-504991/lees-thinwall-rigid-tubing-clear.html


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Raymond S. said:


> "Any suggestions on how to best get rid of the mulm on the substrate?"
> 
> I have a special tool for this. Don't work perfect as you need to learn how high to hold it off the bottom and even then it clogs
> some times.
> ...





Thanks! I used a water circulation pump to get most of the mulm taken care of. Haven't had much of an issue recently, not enough for me to really worry about it. I do always enjoy seeing how other folks do things though.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I like where this tank seems to be headed. 

I've still not decided if I like where the driftwood is currently placed. I don't think I'm going to completely rearrange things as I had previously mentioned. Mainly because I am moving to Arizona at the end of May and will have to breakdown the tank for the move. I would rather have nice full, healthy plants for the move than plants that are just starting to fully recover from a rescape.

The stem plants that I added have been growing well. I've continually trimmed them to propagate more of each species. As I get more of each species I've been spreading to fill in the area in between the crypts in the background. This seems to help create a very full effect. 

The two small C. nurii plants that are in the front corner have been doing well. Both have been putting out new leaves on a regular basis. 

The C. parva foreground grows painfully slow. The plants have been doing well and put out new leaves often, but there has been zero spreading. I think if I replant this after I move I will try to triple or quadruple the number of plants that I use. Also plant slightly larger clumps, rather then individual plants as I used originally. That's not to say I will be doing away with them but I haven't figured out if I will need to completely break down this tank to move. I've considered adding some other carpet plant but I really think I want parva only! Thoughts?

I have slowly started ei dosing with increased use of excel. There are also O+ root tabs all over for the heavy root feeding Crypts throughout the tank.

I am going to plant some C. spiralis in the corner behind the wood, where the underwater filter used to reside. I also think I'd like to work some Hygrophila sp. 'Tiger' into that corner. Though I might use a different plant for this, I am open to suggestions. 

The riparium plants have been doing great. I trimmed several of them about a month or two ago and they've exploded! I need to add a little more Hydrocotyle to the HOB overflow. I had to trim some out that had scale on it. I've been dealing with scale on the 'Katie' for several months and it recently spread but only to one portion of hydrocotyle.

Still no fish, just snails. I've been thinking about adding some sort of cory into this tank. A small group, obviously. Any thoughts on if they'll mess with the C. parva? 

Pics will be added asap from my phone.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB*





































These have been taken at different times over the last couple weeks. Some have the clamp on cfl on in them, others don't.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Here are a few I just snapped. I probably should've done the top off and then taken these.... Whoops!




























Here is the space I want to fill behind the driftwood. Pretty good size little area! It's currently not super well lit due to shading from the clamp on light. When I plant the area I will adjust the location if this light so it's not as dim. 









The other area that needs work is the space directly in front of the wood as well. It's currently got a few C. x willisii "Lucens" planted there. I either need to add more or another plant to help the area. Thoughts? Here's a really crappy picture...


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

johnson18 said:


>


Hey you have a white mangrove going in there. I was trying to remember who I had sent those to. It'll take a while, but that will eventually grow up to be a really cool plant. I really like the roots on my little tree.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Hey you have a white mangrove going in there. I was trying to remember who I had sent those to. It'll take a while, but that will eventually grow up to be a really cool plant. I really like the roots on my little tree.



I definitely enjoy seeing it grow...slowly! This is right at 11 months old! Hahaha.... I'm sure it's still got a ton of growing to do.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I couldn't resist, I've now got a Cryptocoryne sp. 'Flamingo' heading my way. I think it's gonna go into this tank. BUT I'm open to other ideas if someone's got a good idea for adding it into my 55! I don't think I'm going to try to transition it from submersed to emersed. I guess I'm not brave enough to try that one... Maybe in time. 

So if I plant the crypt in this tank I'm think of putting it here: 









If not I may leave the blyxa where it's at and plant the Cryptocoryne sp. 'Flamingo' in front of them. Where there is currently a small wendtii and a 'lucens' growing. 

Thoughts? Suggestions? You got a better idea? No really, do you?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Cryptocoryne sp. 'Flamingo' is here! One tiny one went right on into my emersed 55!


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

thats some pricy stuff there. looks awesome!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB*

Haha... I'm not sure I should really be acquiring new plants right now, as I'm moving cross country in May! I know I should probably be waiting until I'm relocated but I can't seem to squash the addiction. hahahahaha

Probably shouldn't have just picked up three more tanks either.....


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Mts man. I'm right there with u


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

tattooedfool83 said:


> Mts man. I'm right there with u



I'm really trying not to set up anymore tanks prior to the move but I want to be able to set up the additional tanks upon moving. So I think want to already have heating, lights, rack build plans, etc by the time I move. Yeah, it'll be a little bit more to move, but I'm getting rid of the majority of my larger furniture so I think I'll have room.


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Finally


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

tattooedfool83 said:


> Finally


Oh Man! I don't know how I missed this on here. Probably the great snowpacolypse part dos! I spent a couple days playing outside while the rest of the state hid indoors! hahahahaha...... That's awesome to see that you've finally got a couple spathes popping up! It was just a matter of time. 

The Crypts in this tank are doing well. The C. sp. 'Flamingo' is almost done putting out a new leaf! The C. nurii in the front right corner have been growing like crazy lately. They're still not very tall but the new leaves continue to get a little larger every time. The green wendtii that was moved so I could plant the 'Flamingo' lost all but one leaf in it's new home(the shady front left corner) but it is also already showing new growth.

The stem plants are continuing to show some nice growth. It's not real fast but everything looks full and healthy. They have responded well to a slight increase in ei dosing. The Hygro. 'Brown" and L. 'Rubin' both have some nice color. 

I also planted a small patch of S. repens in the front left, just behind the last few C. parva but in front of the driftwood. I had to trim a big chuck of moss off the DW in order for that area to get a little more light. 

I finally cleaned some of the algae off the front glass, it wasn't really a lot of algae there, but it makes a hell of a difference for viewing. 

I think I would like to get some fish in here in the next week or so. That just depends on if I can decide on what to stock it with and of course, am able to acquire them. I don't want anything that will possibly mess with plants. I also am not looking to stock this tank heavily as its not got a lot of filtration. Any thoughts or suggestions?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've gotta figure out something for the lighting on this tank. The current hanging fixture is a 30" Coralife T5HO w/ the stock bulbs & they're getting old. I would like to upgrade the bulbs but it seems like there are very few 30" bulbs other than the coralife, in which case I'd either go for a 6700K/10,000K combo or two 6700K. I think I'm going with Geisemann bulbs for all of my other T5HO fixtures, an Aquaflora/Midday combo, and would like something of comparable quality. Does any one have any suggestions that come in the 30" length? 

I've also thought about going with an LED replacement for this tank, but I know very little about LEDs. Some of the Fugeray II or planted plus look nice, at the same time some of the BuildmyLED lights like the 6000K or 6300K XB series look sweet but there is a large price difference between them.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, lighting needs to be looked at sooner rather than later... The current fixture will stay on about half of the photo period then shuts off... It's definitely bulb related.... Both are wired to the same switch, so when one dies the whole fixture shuts down.


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Sure it's not a ballast? I had a single t5ho that would do the same and it was a ballast


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Only reason I'm thinking bulbs is that my identical 48" fixture was doing the same thing & swapping out a bulb seems to have stopped the issue.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm really considering giving this tank a serious lighting upgrade! I would like to increase the light level for both the riparium plants and all the plants in the tank that are shaded by them...lol! Part of the hope is that I can also stop using the clamp on cfl to give the submersed plants enough time? If I end up raising the light level in the tank from low light to a higher light level(like med/med-high), I can handle that although I'm not really wanting to get to the high light range in the tank. My hope is that much of the light will be diffused by the rip plants. I would also like to have a fixture I can use with a larger riparium set up as I'd like to swap this for something with more space. 

The two fixtures I have been looking at the most are the BML 36" 6300k Dutch Planted XB series and the ATI SunPower 4 x 39w t5ho.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB ~ Time for new lights!*

I just spoke with the folks at BML. They are putting together a custom spectrum based off the 6000K Riparium, adding a small(2 per board?) amount of a dark red to the mix of whites used in Riparium fixtures, which will add a little warmth to the light. This is apparently very similar to a light built for orchid houses. I should have the data for this light later today. Odds are that this light will be ordered today. 

I'm still seriously looking at the ATI fixture as well. I may end up with both. See which I like better and the other will end up being used for an emersed crypt tank. Of course both of these fixtures can be successfully used in different set ups in the future if I wanted to make the switch to a high tech system. They could both also be used for an indoor veggie(leafy greens) grow system if desired.



Anyone want to share their thoughts on either of these lights or this upgrade?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Might be about time for a trim....




























Slightly tweaked things.



















And the rest of the tank....


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

The progress is outstanding. Keep up the posts on the lights my man I'm curious


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB ~ Time for new lights!*

Thanks man! Sometimes I like how things are going & other times I feel like this could be so much better! I am thinking that I definitely need to add some color into the mix. The Ruellia 'Katie' blooms pink but that's not really enough. I think I need some sort of colorful foliage in the mix. I've not looked into it in a while, so I've got no real ideas at this point. I'll look at it over the next few days to see if I can find a match. 

I think for now I'm going to go with only the BML light, although I'm probably gonna grab a second one for a different tank. I'm still waiting to get the info on the custom light. I talked to them again today though & I'm fairly positive I'm gonna like this light. Sounded like they've been running short-handed this week. 

The main reason I've decided at this point to wait on an awesome ATI fixture is that I've been hit with a bunch of medical bills. I've got kidney stones, ended up in the er a little over a week ago. I'm currently scheduled for surgical removal during my spring break, the second week of March. Hopefully I'll pass the stone(though not likely) before the surgery date or I'll be $35K in the hole! My er visit was $10k. lol. Craziness, but no worries. While the ATI is off the radar for now, it will definitely be something that is picked up the next time I am ready to drop some cash on equipment.


----------



## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

johnson18 said:


> Thanks man! Sometimes I like how things are going & other times I feel like this could be so much better! I am thinking that I definitely need to add some color into the mix. The Ruellia 'Katie' blooms pink but that's not really enough. I think I need some sort of colorful foliage in the mix. I've not looked into it in a while, so I've got no real ideas at this point. I'll look at it over the next few days to see if I can find a match.
> 
> I think for now I'm going to go with only the BML light, although I'm probably gonna grab a second one for a different tank. I'm still waiting to get the info on the custom light. I talked to them again today though & I'm fairly positive I'm gonna like this light. Sounded like they've been running short-handed this week.
> 
> The main reason I've decided at this point to wait on an awesome ATI fixture is that I've been hit with a bunch of medical bills. I've got kidney stones, ended up in the er a little over a week ago. I'm currently scheduled for surgical removal during my spring break, the second week of March. Hopefully I'll pass the stone(though not likely) before the surgery date or I'll be $35K in the hole! My er visit was $10k. lol. Craziness, but no worries. While the ATI is off the radar for now, it will definitely be something that is picked up the next time I am ready to drop some cash on equipment.


Good luck! With your health. My mom went through the same thing 2 times. If u dont mind me askin, how did u get your metal plant to stand so straight up?


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

I hear ya man, im in the same boat. I have a cyst that's calcified in my left kidney. Has put me in the ER many a times. Very Very painful. Luckily i have insurance these days but they have talked about possibly removal so we will see. No fluid is getting to the middle so no risk of cancer. Thankfully with kidneys we have two of them and we cna function with one if need be. 

I like those ATI fixtures as they are dimmable, i wanna do a 80 gallon rimless deepblue tank, the frag tank with a light like that some day when i buy a house, aquatic plants and riparium plants as well.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

You have some very nice and interesting set-ups. All your journals are fantastic.

I second this too


tattooedfool83 said:


> Keep up the posts on the lights my man I'm curious


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

newbieplanter said:


> Good luck! With your health. My mom went through the same thing 2 times. If u dont mind me askin, how did u get your metal plant to stand so straight up?


Thanks! The tweaking I did to the plants mostly consisted of tucking certain plants behind and into the leaves of other plants around them. So the tallest of the Aluminum Plant got tucked up for a photo op., it's already back to it's previous position. That plant really just barely reached the point stopped standing straight. I will probably trim everything today. I would like to get everything back to growing in the right direction.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

tattooedfool83 said:


> I hear ya man, im in the same boat. I have a cyst that's calcified in my left kidney. Has put me in the ER many a times. Very Very painful. Luckily i have insurance these days but they have talked about possibly removal so we will see. No fluid is getting to the middle so no risk of cancer. Thankfully with kidneys we have two of them and we cna function with one if need be.
> 
> I like those ATI fixtures as they are dimmable, i wanna do a 80 gallon rimless deepblue tank, the frag tank with a light like that some day when i buy a house, aquatic plants and riparium plants as well.


Dude, I love that tank. My LFS has the 60G(and all the smaller ones too....) version sitting on their floor. For real. Hardest trip to the fish store I've ever had. I had some control and didn't even check the price! I was all over the 24"x24" though!! I've almost ordered the MA-610 twice in the last three days.....Damn you OVT!!!(LOL... with much respect! :biggrin: lol) I've gotta go back to the LFS today to do a little plant trading. I'm hoping my buddy was able to find the E. parviflorus in his fish building. I'm taking him a few C. nurii to add to his collection of plants. 

I've been dealing with stones since I was barely 19, so 10 years. Most of the time I just brush them off and keep going but these have kicked my as$ this time. It's definitely no fun.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So I went by my LFS to drop off a Crypt. nurii to the guy. He gave me a bunch, 20-30 stems, of some sort of emersed Rotala, he said it would get a nice bright red almost pink color. I put a few stems in both emersed tanks, put probably 6 or so submersed in this tank and added the rest(probably 20 stems) to the emersed portion of this tank. Some went into the back of the HOB, some on the overflow. I planted a few in the floating rafts as well as a couple were stuck down into the planter's substrate. 

While I was in my 20L emersed tank I trimmed several different stem species, which I also added to the emersed portion of this riparium! Hygro. 'Brown', a couple random rotala sp., Ludwigia sp. 'Rubin', Alternanthera reineckii, Bacopa caroliniana...I think that covers most of the plants. 

I am guessing I will need to mist these plants more often than the others plants, at least until they become well established. 

I've also got a Hibiscus African Rose Mallow & a few other rip plants on the way with an order of rare Anubias and Crypts from Han. 

I'm going to trim back most of the Pilea and replant it. 

I got the Custom LED report from BML on that light. It can bee seen here: http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-report-details/?partNo=PS1290S101AAAATAAAAAATAAA

I think it pretty much covers the wavelengths I was hoping to cover by adding the red to the 6000k Riparium light. With out adding so many different color emitters that I end up with the disco effect when using it above water. This would have been the problem with going with the 6300K Dutch Planted fixture for my riparium where the light is more than 2ft above the substrate, 16in above the water surface. Any one have any thoughts or comments on this light and the information above?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

This is the plant I was given the other day. Most of this growth is emersed. Anyone want to help me out with an ID on this stuff? I can already tell it's gonna be a weed! Hahaha!! 

The plant in question is the bright green plant in the center of this picture.


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

That looks like the ludwigia x arcurata hybrid. Are the undersides a reddish?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

tattooedfool83 said:


> That looks like the ludwigia x arcurata hybrid. Are the undersides a reddish?


Nope, Same color as the top. It seems to be adapting to submersed growth very well. Hopefully I can get some better shots of that in a week or so.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I added a very melted E. Parviflorus and African Rose Hibiscus(and another plant I haven't looked for yet, it was an extra) to this tank. Not sure either one will survive. Actually, I'm betting against both of them due to their current state. 

Oplismenus Basket Grass is the other rip plant added.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

36" BML XB series light ordered using the spectrum posted earlier, with a dimmer.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Pulled out ALL of the Cryptocoryne parva, it's about 25 little plants. . It was starting to get algae on the leaves pretty bad. I can't decide if I want to pot them up and move the whole bunch into my emersed tank or if I should just go ahead and sell them. I will do a parva carpet again, but it needs about 3X more to start. I don't know what I will put in its place, maybe nothing until after the move.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB ~ BML Arrived 3/21*

The new BML light fixture has been hung over this tank!! 

The light was delivered this morning & I immediately took it outta the box!




























After unpacking it and playing around a little, I took down the old fixture and realized I was going to need a slightly different set up to hang the fixture. I'm not sure I like the new set up I built but I'm going to have to change it once I move to compensate for different ceiling height. The light is hung using black nylon coated SS leader wire and other leader hardware. The bottom of the light is a 27" above the substrate. 























































The riparium plants have been growing like mad the last few weeks after adjusting to the new 6700K bulbs I put in the t5ho fixture. So I'm pretty stoked to compare that growth to how they grow under the new BML light spectrum.










Here you can see that I replaced the C. parva with Blyxa japonica for the foreground. All of the parva went into pots in the emersed tanks. I also added a couple stems of Hygrophila sp. 'araguaia' in between the C. nurii and the Blyxa. I'm not sure it'll grow this low tech but it was a rooted stem so maybe it'll have a better chance at survival. 

Many of these pics aren't pretty, I was dealing with a lot of algae after replacing the bulbs & still using the clamp on cfl. Which has since been removed.


----------



## wastewater (Apr 5, 2010)

Plants & set-up are looking good. I like the way you suspended your light... clever idea!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks! The snap swivels I used are way too big but the next size down I had was way too small. When I remake them for the new ceiling height, I will probably use a tiny thimble so I don't have the large snap swivel on the bottom.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice work! That light looks pretty slick. I gotta try one of those BML fixtures.


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Wow man, it looks amazing. Safe to say ur happy with that light?


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Even at that height ur still getting nice light penetration on the substrate. I like it a lot


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So far I'm pleased with the light. I have definitely noticed that the light penetration is much better than the previous light. I think this will help with the growing of stems & such out of the HOB and rafts. Just since I hung this light the White Mangrove has quickly put out a new set of leaves, as have almost all of the submerged plants. Actually almost everything is showing new growth. 

I still need to pick up a new timer, as there is no on/off switch. There is an inline connection that could easily be unplugged between the fixture and the driver but I don't see why you'd want to power the driver when not using the light. I have a spare timer but it's older than many of the younger forum members. LOL... My newer timer, that I typically only used when out of town, I just barely installed to control the lights over the emersed tanks and the Tillandsia tank.

I've been looking for some new rip. plants. I bought some hibiscus and some basket grass was thrown in. The hibiscus(both times-first was mostly DOA) was just non-rooted cuttings and quickly died. I'm definitely not a fan of buying non-rooted trimmings. Won't be doing that again-I was getting some other plants and just added these on a whim. It's great for some stem plants, but not ideal for these. Plant cuttings are great if I'm given the cutting and immediately going home to start the rooting process... Definitely be sure to ask if you are purchasing plants for your riparium. ANYWHO..... So I'm wanting to add some different color & texture to the rip. plants. Any suggestions?


*Edit*: If you follow my multiple tank journals, it's not hard to figure out where I purchased the above mentioned hibiscus. These comments are nothing against that individual, in fact he is a stand up guy. I've gotten plants from the person a couple different times and always been pretty pleased. I'm just sharing my experiences & preference. I didn't receive any comments to provoke this edit, just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to bash anyone.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So the Crypt. sp. 'Flamingo' that is growing in this tank has had three of it's five leaves melt over the last week. :/ Hopefully it's just adjusting to the new light level. If it continues to get worse, it'll be moved to the emersed tanks. 

I'm tempted to start moving many of my plants into emersed pots. I'm just starting to dread how to move everything from SC to AZ successfully. I think the emersed plants will be easier to move with success. Thoughts?


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Very lovely set up! Makes me want to try a little riparium in the windowsill.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Had to go by my local nursery today(twice) ended up getting this and planting in a spare hanging planter.









I'm going to be removing the Pothos over the weekend, chopping it up and planting it in a hanging pot on my front porch. It has done very well in this set up. The last three new leaves are all at least 1.5 times the size of my hand. It's just time for a change. I'd rather be able to have it as a stand alone plant.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Fittonia is better for planting on a trellis raft. I doubt that it will grow very well in a planter.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Haha! I put it in a planter as I've never had luck with any of it on a raft. The ones that I originally got through you never faired well. Tried it once more after that with a few plants spread on rafts. I figured I'd give this a shot. Shoved a root tab down under it. For $3 I'm not out much if it croaks.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I need to trim everything. Growth has been awesome. Judging from root growth, having the sponge filter positioned where the outflow of water & air bubbles runs directly under the floating rafts has helped too.


----------



## rajah_22 (Dec 12, 2013)

Nice looking riparium plants! 

Have any suggestions for a good riparium plant that can be attached to wood (no soil) and will grow with its roots in the water, but stem and leaves totally exposed, high light, and low humidity house? I have a log at the very top of my tank that I want to put a plant onto but haven't found something that will work well.


----------



## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Looks amazing man


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That Ruellia 'Katie' is blooming again.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> That Ruellia 'Katie' is blooming again.


Yup, it's got several more buds and seed pods all over it! I can always count on it for a nice splash of color. It gets Scale like a mofo though! I'm smashing them on a daily basis and barely make a dent. Fortunately they don't see to spread to any of the other plants. I see one every once in a while on the mangrove but never more than that.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

tattooedfool83 said:


> Looks amazing man


Thanks man!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

rajah_22 said:


> Nice looking riparium plants!
> 
> Have any suggestions for a good riparium plant that can be attached to wood (no soil) and will grow with its roots in the water, but stem and leaves totally exposed, high light, and low humidity house? I have a log at the very top of my tank that I want to put a plant onto but haven't found something that will work well.


Many of the plants that Hydrophyte sells as trellis raft plants would probably work well. They are marginal/bog/swamp plants vs some of the emersed grown aquatics that need the high humidity. I'll try to get some closer shots of these plants in my tank as many of the larger plants here are grown in that manner!


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

For scale you can also try to drown them by dunking the whole plant underwater. If you repeat this a few times you can knock them down quite a bit. The Ruellia can handle being submerged for a whole day or two. 

Those seeds from the Ruellia are very easy to sprout and the seedlings grow pretty fast. You can start them right in a riparium planter or in regular potting soil.


----------



## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

hydrophyte said:


> Those seeds from the Ruellia are very easy to sprout and the seedlings grow pretty fast. You can start them right in a riparium planter or in regular potting soil.


Very easy indeed... don't even need a planter!


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

johnson18 said:


> Might be about time for a trim....


Is the very large heartshaped leaf in lower right of these photos pothos?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

AquaAurora said:


> Is the very large heartshaped leaf in lower right of these photos pothos?


Sure is! I started with a small cutting of a variegated pothos(Epipremnum aureum) in the HOB. It now has roots in the hob, one of the hanging planters, growing through a trellis raft into the water and substrate all along the back of the tank. I don't think any roots made it down into the HOB the second time around. 

The newest leaves are all larger than my hand, about 8"L x 6"W. I would say that this plant is still a juvenile on the edge of being a sub-adult. I had been thinking about cutting it into several pieces and repotting them in a hanging pot outside. I have pretty much decided to let it grow as I'd like to see how close to a full grown adult I can get it! Adult to fully grown leaves/blades range from 18" to 30" long. 

Since the addition of more light the variegation has become more pronounced.


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

johnson18 said:


> Sure is! I started with a small cutting of a variegated pothos(Epipremnum aureum) in the HOB. It now has roots in the hob, one of the hanging planters, growing through a trellis raft into the water and substrate all along the back of the tank. I don't think any roots made it down into the HOB the second time around.
> 
> The newest leaves are all larger than my hand, about 8"L x 6"W. I would say that this plant is still a juvenile on the edge of being a sub-adult. I had been thinking about cutting it into several pieces and repotting them in a hanging pot outside. I have pretty much decided to let it grow as I'd like to see how close to a full grown adult I can get it! Adult to fully grown leaves/blades range from 18" to 30" long.
> 
> Since the addition of more light the variegation has become more pronounced.


Wow thats a long plant! I didn't know their leaves could get that monstrous (adult size)! 
After seeing yours and a few other lovely riparium/planted hob setups I really want to slap some plants in mine! I have ugly blue foam covering the spill ways since my tank currently has a betta who doesn't want to stay at the calm end sooo want to cover that. I've been trying to find some undemanding plants I can stuff in the HOB that I don't have to worry about misting/keeping high humidty for BUT stay a manageable size.. though I guess trimming is an easy way to keep them from getting too huge. 
Thinking of looking for pothos, aluminum plant, the.. whats it called..*googles* tradescantia zebrine and, maybe maidenhair fern (not sure if I can let this ones leaves just float on the surface, or only over the side of the filter box/tank) to slap into my 2 HOBs on the 20g.

Also wanted to ask: Is that cardamine lyrata growing out of the water and very compact/tiny light leaves under the aluminum plant?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

johnson18 said:


> Sure is! I started with a small cutting of a variegated pothos(Epipremnum aureum) in the HOB. It now has roots in the hob, one of the hanging planters, growing through a trellis raft into the water and substrate all along the back of the tank. I don't think any roots made it down into the HOB the second time around.
> 
> The newest leaves are all larger than my hand, about 8"L x 6"W. I would say that this plant is still a juvenile on the edge of being a sub-adult. I had been thinking about cutting it into several pieces and repotting them in a hanging pot outside. I have pretty much decided to let it grow as I'd like to see how close to a full grown adult I can get it! Adult to fully grown leaves/blades range from 18" to 30" long.
> 
> Since the addition of more light the variegation has become more pronounced.


Did you watch that TV show _Lost_? In the shots up in the woods you can the adult form pothos growing all over everything. And they are the variegated form. I also noticed large coarse green wild form _Syngonium podophyllum_ in some areas. They shot that show mostly on Oahu. I suppose Oahu is overrun with invasive weeds.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

AquaAurora said:


> Wow thats a long plant! I didn't know their leaves could get that monstrous (adult size)!
> After seeing yours and a few other lovely riparium/planted hob setups I really want to slap some plants in mine! I have ugly blue foam covering the spill ways since my tank currently has a betta who doesn't want to stay at the calm end sooo want to cover that. I've been trying to find some undemanding plants I can stuff in the HOB that I don't have to worry about misting/keeping high humidty for BUT stay a manageable size.. though I guess trimming is an easy way to keep them from getting too huge.
> Thinking of looking for pothos, aluminum plant, the.. whats it called..*googles* tradescantia zebrine and, maybe maidenhair fern (not sure if I can let this ones leaves just float on the surface, or only over the side of the filter box/tank) to slap into my 2 HOBs on the 20g.
> 
> Also wanted to ask: Is that cardamine lyrata growing out of the water and very compact/tiny light leaves under the aluminum plant?


I covered my hob overflow with riccia fluitans to start. I've slowly added more plants to it, Hydrocotyle Japan has been a good one. Wasn't a fan of moss. Pothos, aluminum plants and T. zebrina are all easy plants for an hob. I don't mist mine super often, maybe like once a week depending on the temp & humidity in my house. I've found that I have better luck getting emersed stem plants to adjust to the lower humidity if I don't mist them as often. Most seem to melt if misted too often. I think I've finally got some Hygro. 'Brown' adjusted to growing out of the hob. 

That is not cardamine but Lysimachia nummularia commonly called Creeping Jenny. I picked it up fairly cheaply at lowes. It was rinsed well and then dunked in my 55g for a couple days to ensure that any pest had plenty of time to drown.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Did you watch that TV show _Lost_? In the shots up in the woods you can the adult form pothos growing all over everything. And they are the variegated form. I also noticed large coarse green wild form _Syngonium podophyllum_ in some areas. They shot that show mostly on Oahu. I suppose Oahu is overrun with invasive weeds.


Oh yeah, it was all over that show. Definitely a weed in the right environment!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Here are a few shots to show the growth in the last 12 days. Most are overexposed, still learning how to best photograph this tank with the new, higher light levels. I've been running the light at 75% the last couple weeks with fairly short photoperiods. I pretty much only turned it on today for these pictures as I forget to put it on a timer or tell my friend to turn it off over the weekend as I was out of town for a wedding in Charleston...ran three days straight.... Damn algae. 





































Here you can see the plants now well above the top of the light!!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, The End is finally here for this tank in it's current configuration. It's getting torn down Saturday afternoon so I can pack up and move across the country on Sunday! 

I plan on moving the riparium planters into one of my emersed tanks for the ride. The rest of the plants, except for C. sp. "Flamingo" will be put into a rubbermaid tote with a few inches of water.

Upon arrival in Tucson this tank will be put together with MGOPM capped with the current Black Diamond substrate. I have considered using sifted FoxFarm's Ocean Forest instead. Any opinions on that? The aquascape will be different as well.

I'll try to get a couple shots of the current growth before I break it down. Although I can't promise they will make it up before I leave as I've got a crazy busy week!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

This tank will probably get put back together tomorrow. I will be using MG mixed with black flourite capped with black diamond. The riparium plants have been living in a bucket since leaving SC. I will be hanging the light about 8-12in higher than it was hanging in SC. I had a ton of problems with algae if I kept a photo period high enough to grow the rip. plants really well. Since I don't have the money or desire to add a full CO2 system, at the moment, I will do this instead.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB ~ New Substrate and layout*

Build is happening today. It's been delayed as I had to let my back rest. I've had a herniated disc for a couple years and the packing, moving, unpacking & setting up the 55 just killed me. 

The layout will be totally different as one end of the tank is visible from both front and back(front is the living room back, is the dining room) so it's gotta look damn good or will get banished into my bedroom or bathroom! Hahaha... It'll be a new challenge but I'm looking forward to doing it. I've also purchased a new air pump, top fin 4000, and will run two sponge filters instead of one.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Here's a teaser shot. I'm farther along this but haven't taken any more pics. The driftwood has been covered with narrow leaf java fern. The cut end will end up not showing, though it may take a month or two.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Still trying to piece everything together. It's amazing how slow it goes when you can't move normally. 

I've not made much of a mess....


















My 14 month old mangrove is gettin big! Taller than my beer.... Hahaha 









More to come


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

A tank in the bathroom doesn't sound so bad, something relaxing to stare at while you're taking a dump haha. I understand the want to set up, but take it easy, don't want to make your back worse and risk more permanent damage! How long will it take for the mangrove to get too big for your tanks? What do you plan to do with it once it gets too huge?
Where did you get all your clear planter baskets, ripariumsupply? I'm thinking of getting some more or doing a DIY one out of black plastic craft mesh.. my pothos and 'wandering jew' are getting too long for the hob and need moved/trim and replanted... I need to find suction cups that don't suck if I go diy (all clear suction cups I've bought lose their ability to stay on glass in a year and discolor.. pink )

Look forward to seeing more progress shots and final photo ^^


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

AquaAurora said:


> A tank in the bathroom doesn't sound so bad, something relaxing to stare at while you're taking a dump haha. I understand the want to set up, but take it easy, don't want to make your back worse and risk more permanent damage! How long will it take for the mangrove to get too big for your tanks? What do you plan to do with it once it gets too huge?
> Where did you get all your clear planter baskets, ripariumsupply? I'm thinking of getting some more or doing a DIY one out of black plastic craft mesh.. my pothos and 'wandering jew' are getting too long for the hob and need moved/trim and replanted... I need to find suction cups that don't suck if I go diy (all clear suction cups I've bought lose their ability to stay on glass in a year and discolor.. pink )
> 
> Look forward to seeing more progress shots and final photo ^^



I was more worried about losing more plants than really wanting to set up the tank. My back is gonna need surgery in the next year anyways... 

That is a Black Mangrove, it's already more than a year old so I don't think I'm gonna have to move it any time soon. Although since I switched to the BML it's growth has definitely sped up! It will eventually get treated like a bonsai and encouraged to stay relatively small. I think that at some point in the next couple years this tank will get swapped for a larger tank as far as the riparium set up goes. This will make the larger mangrove not look so out of place. 

I got all the planters & floating trellis rafts from Riparium Supply as well as most of the plants. I noticed last night while washing the suction cups that about half are starting to look cloudy. As long as they continue to work I could care less what they look like, they're covered by the planter anyway. 

I cut and replant my wandering Jew fairly often. The Pothos on the other hand I'm trying to encourage to grow into an adult plant, so there will be no cutting of it! 

I've still got some adjust of the plants. They need a trim, but I'm going to try and get everything growing again before I start trimming. 

The light has also not been hung. That will have to happen today.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB ~ New Substrate and layout*

I've been quite absent from the forums lately. My plants and tanks haven't suffered nearly as much neglect as y'all!  This tank is slowly starting to grow, I didn't pack it nearly as full to start as I did my 55. I kind of wish I had saved a few more plants from the 55 build, but oh well. I'm thinking that I will be pretty pleased with the layout once things start to fill in. The riparium plants suffered a decent bit from the move, and then my lack of speed getting the light hung. I'm sad to say that I think the mangrove has kicked the bucket. I don't think it was a light issue, but that it didn't like the extreme lack of humidity. These pictures are a few weeks old as I've been outta town camping almost two weeks. There has been some nice growth on most of the plants, both above and below the water line. I will take a few more in the next couple days when I do a WC and trim. I've been very pleased/surprised with the growth of the Hygrophila sp. 'Araguaia' over the last couple weeks, the stems have show nice growth, but also getting some nice pink coloring! Thanks BML! Which is actually now hanging 50" above the top of the stand, running at 100%, 9am-9pm. So far there has been no algae(yup, totally just jinxed myself) and I'm getting nice growth all around. Now that I'm gonna be around all the time(no more camping trips  haha) I've gotta start thinking about what to put into this tank.... Thoughts? I also want to add some more riparium plants to the mix. I really want to make this tank look bad ass as far as the above water growth goes. It's in the living room of my sister and bro-n-law's house so I would like it to really wow folks.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Looking at & thinking about this tank this morning, I've got such a long way to go before I'm anywhere near happy with it. Right now it pretty much just looks like [censored][censored][censored][censored]. I'm going to work on adding a bunch of riccia, Hydrocotyle & lots of the stems I've got growing emersed. I don't know how they'll do with the total lack of humidity in the house, but it's worth a shot. I've gotta get some wandering jew cuttings added back in there too. As far as additional plants for my spare rip planters, I'm think about maybe adding some sort of Fern & taro. Although I'm not 100% on that yet. I want to add something with more color as well.


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Yay updates! Look forward to seeing the tank fill in! 
I got a dwarf taro from pt member hydrophyte recently and lizard tail, but they were sold as "bare root" plants so they aren't in my system yet, just in vase/jar next to tank until they get new growth. Taro already has a new leaf and the lizard's tail has some buds started.
I don't know how wandering jew would do via mail, but if you need some mine grows faster than the pothos so I have to trim is fairly often, I can try shipping some your way... but then buying a new plant would probably cost about as much as shipping for a small flat rate priority box.. offer's still open though.
Will you use Fittonia albivenis and/or aluminum plant in this setup? 
I took the riccia out of the outflow of my HOB and slapped it on top of a trellis raft, along with some more submerged grown riccia, I mist it 2x a day and its done well so far (might be able to get away with not misting but also have submerge grown creeping jenny I'm trying to transition to emersed in the setup). Hope yours transitions well! I was tempted to buy some mondo grass today when I was out, but I've run out of room to stick it anywhere in my system lol.. wonder how it would do in a riaprium? Always see it being mis-sold as an aquatic plant. I've not tried another fern since the maidenhair didn't like the transplant.. but I've been tempted to try a different kind (not properly labeled so no clue specie) -and again no room- had thick lime green rubbery leaves, but they unfolded from the core like normal fern.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

AquaAurora said:


> Yay updates! Look forward to seeing the tank fill in!
> I got a dwarf taro from pt member hydrophyte recently and lizard tail, but they were sold as "bare root" plants so they aren't in my system yet, just in vase/jar next to tank until they get new growth. Taro already has a new leaf and the lizard's tail has some buds started.
> I don't know how wandering jew would do via mail, but if you need some mine grows faster than the pothos so I have to trim is fairly often, I can try shipping some your way... but then buying a new plant would probably cost about as much as shipping for a small flat rate priority box.. offer's still open though.
> Will you use Fittonia albivenis and/or aluminum plant in this setup?
> I took the riccia out of the outflow of my HOB and slapped it on top of a trellis raft, along with some more submerged grown riccia, I mist it 2x a day and its done well so far (might be able to get away with not misting but also have submerge grown creeping jenny I'm trying to transition to emersed in the setup). Hope yours transitions well! I was tempted to buy some mondo grass today when I was out, but I've run out of room to stick it anywhere in my system lol.. wonder how it would do in a riaprium? Always see it being mis-sold as an aquatic plant. I've not tried another fern since the maidenhair didn't like the transplant.. but I've been tempted to try a different kind (not properly labeled so no clue specie) -and again no room- had thick lime green rubbery leaves, but they unfolded from the core like normal fern.


Devin(hydrophyte) is awesome, always a huge help. I've got the original wandering Jew that I started this tank with cuttings from, it's just a matter of going & getting some cuttings to add. I haven't really been home much so I haven't had much time to play with this tank. 

If you look closely, I've got a decent bit of aluminum plant in there already, it's almost as tall as the umbrella sedge! Definitely needs a trim. I still have the pink Fittonia that I added not long before leaving SC. It got knocked down in the bucket during the move and lost a big chunk of it. The rest has been moved into the hob. I had some creeping jenny that didn't survive the move. I've gotta see if I can get some more soon. I'll probably skip the submerged stuff & see what I can find at the garden center/local nursery. 

I'm trying to figure out what sort of Fern Don is using in his 200g riparium. It looks awesome!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So just a few basics of the new system that I wanted to cover.

The filtration was switched up when I rebuilt this tank. I added a second dual sponge filter and replaced the air pump I was powering the single with a Topfin 4000 to power them both. The filters are stuck to the back underneath the rip planters, so the outflow runs under the planters & floating trellis rafts. 

So far there is no heater being used, which is the same as my 55. Though there is actually a heater in the back of the 55. 

The plants used in the submerged portion are as follows. 
Narrow leaf/needle, trident & regular(very little) Java Fern
Anubias barteri var barteri
Anubais barteri var barteri 'nana'
Crypt. Wendtii 'green gecko', brown
Crypt. nurii
Crypt. x willissii 'Lucens'
Crypt. parva
Hydrocotyle tripartita
Marsilea minuta
Hygro. sp. 'Araguaia'
Hygro. sp. 'Brown'

I added a 6500K 3w DBP Solar Flare micro led today that shines on the portion of the JF that is shaded by the trellis rafts. Don't expect it to make a huge difference, but I've got it and wasn't using it elsewhere. I'm sure eventually it will be moved onto my vase, whenever I actually set it up.


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

johnson18 said:


> Devin(hydrophyte) is awesome, always a huge help. I've got the original wandering Jew that I started this tank with cuttings from, it's just a matter of going & getting some cuttings to add. I haven't really been home much so I haven't had much time to play with this tank.
> 
> If you look closely, I've got a decent bit of aluminum plant in there already, it's almost as tall as the umbrella sedge! Definitely needs a trim. I still have the pink Fittonia that I added not long before leaving SC. It got knocked down in the bucket during the move and lost a big chunk of it. The rest has been moved into the hob. I had some creeping jenny that didn't survive the move. I've gotta see if I can get some more soon. I'll probably skip the submerged stuff & see what I can find at the garden center/local nursery.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out what sort of Fern Don is using in his 200g riparium. It looks awesome!


Whoops sorry, can't beleive I did not see it when I looked earlier, damn yours is tall! Mine freaking short (aluminum plant). Yeh getting garden variety would probably go better than submerged or high humidity emersed grown creeping jenny, most of mine withered so far even with misting to try to make the transition easier :/


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Haha... No worries, the aluminum plant kinda gets lost at that height. It needs a big trim. The Ruellia 'Katie' gets lost too! 

The rest of this is only partially planted tank related.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much work this tank will have done to it in the next few weeks.... Wednesday night about 8:20 I headed to the drug store(about a mile from home) to fill a couple jugs full of RO water in preparation to do some tank maintenance. About half way there I got hit by a guy speeding through a stop sign(he didn't stop.) He t-boned my truck at the rear passenger wheel, sending my truck into a spin & flipping it once my wheels caught the pavement going sideways. Luckily no one had any major injuries. I had my oldest dog, Gonzo, in the truck with me & both front windows rolled down. Once I knew we where headed over my only thought was to hang on to Gonzo to keep him in the truck and off the pavement. I was fortunate enough to be successful at this, though he did hit the windshield hard enough at some point to break and leave an indentation in it. I've got some pretty bad road rash on one arm, cuts, bruises & extremely sore all over but no major injuries, though I'm sure this will aggravate my already messed up back. After an ambulance ride, several hours in the ER & CT Scans of my entire body I was released, heavily medicated. So, like I said, not sure how much work will be done on this or any of my tanks for a while. We're lucky that we(Gonzo & I) both walked away(or climbed out as the case may be.) The other guys insurance should take care of everything, hopefully, if not we'll take the necessary steps to get things taken care of. At this point I'm not super stressed about it, I'm so medicated that I won't need to drive anywhere for a week or so. Here are a couple pictures my family snapped shortly after it happened.


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Ouch, glad you and your buddy (dog) made it. Surprised the [cesnor] that hit you didn't just hit-n-run. Enjoy your meds, but don't get addicted!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks! No worries on the meds, been there done that, can't stand being on them. They are lucky they didn't hit me further forward or their little car would've been toast with them in it. I was going pretty slow, maybe 25 max as I was just about to enter a narrow construction zone. Like I said, we were all lucky it wasn't worse than it was. Now I just gotta get down to the police towing lot to get my water jugs out of the back of my truck so I can get on with that WC/top off! hahaha!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Heading to lowes in a bit to see what plants I can find to add to this system. I also think that the next time I can make it over to ANA I'm gonna pick up a few E. parviflorus for one area of this tank.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Here are just a few shots of the tank as it is now. Definitely very much still a work in progress, as far as the emersed plants are concerned. I've added some plants, still have a huge pot of golden creeping jenny. I think this(rip plants) might get rearranged a little. I kind of feel like the planters need to be spread a bit so there is a little room in between them. I will list the new plants later for now just a few pictures. 

Oh, on a side note, this tank is a total pain in the ass to photograph with the light colored wall behind it....

























































The submersed portion of the tank still looks empty & boring. It should eventually fill in to look decent. As you move from right to left the plants get smaller going from C. wendtii & nurii to C. x willisii 'lucens' to C. Parva with some MM mixed in. Mostly planted in diagonal rows going from the back befit to front right. The front left corner is a patch of Hygro. sp. 'Araguaia'. The area in the back where the black background ends has a few Hygro. sp. 'brown'. I would also like to put a nice grouping of E. parvoflorus in the same area. I'd also like to work in a few more patches of stem plants.









I know the 3/4 black background looks quite odd but the goal is for this tank to be visible from two rooms. This is also the reason I decided on this particular planting layout. I hope that eventually the background will be mostly covered by plant growth anyway.


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Very interested to hear what the new plants are you put in up top, be sure to update on how they do with the transition from soil to riparium! Is the moss aquatic (if so what species) or a random grab from the yard? I'm tempted to pull a little moss from the front yard and see how it does on top of the gravel of the riparium planters.. might even try to stick it on the black rim on the front of the tank like [THIS] to hide the plastic


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, I added a nice chunk of Spider plant, Chlorophytum comosum, to the HOB on Saturday. We have a large pot hanging in the front walkway of the house. This was a big chunk that my sister's Great Dane knocked off with his tail, which is a fairly regular occurrence. When I checked yesterday, this plant had already put out close to 3/4" of new healthy white roots. I was unable to find any Fittonia at Lowes or one of the best local nurseries. I was able to find Polka Dot Plant, Hypoestes phyllostachya, which seems very similar to Fittonia in structure and somewhat in appearance. I figured I would give it a shot. It is spread out with plants being both pink and white in color. The last plant I added was an Arrowhead vine, Nephthytis hybrid. I stuck it in the back corner of the HOB filter. The plant is a light green color with pinkish veins and a small bit of a darker green around the leaf edges.

I still haven't added any wandering jew yet. I will probably do that at the same time I add the creeping jenny. I also still need to add some of my emersed stems.

These additions still leave me with two empty planters. Haven't decided what I would like to do with them yet. I am thinking about maybe putting some variety of Maidenhair fern in one... not sure about the other. I'll have to dig through some old PM's and see what Devin might have that I would like to try. I do have a couple colocasia and alocasia species I have thought about putting a small chunk of rhizome into a planter, just to try out. My concern with this is that they have all been suffering from a spider mite infestation since the move. I don't want to introduce that into this system. 

The moss in the planters is Xmas moss. I used to have a ton of it in this tank but most of it got disposed of due to it being mixed with a massive amount of algae(don't go out of town for a wedding and leave your new BML fixture running at 100% for 4 days straight! whoops!) I usually just dice it up with some scissors so it's just tiny pieces, 1/8-1/4", and spread it out on whatever surface I want it to grow on. I use it on the substrate of all my emersed pots too. It helps keep algae and fungus from growing. 

As far as covering the black rim with moss, I'd probably be more likely to remove the rim, or even just the front section of it, than adding moss. Although that is a pretty neat option, I feel it would draw more attention to the front rim than the plain plastic.


----------



## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I tried maidenhair fern in my HOB, it did not do well but I think i was too rough on the roots


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Just got back from the lfs, picked up three nice little E. parvoflorus that I added to the tank as mentioned a few posts up. Also got four Ember Tetras. I know, not really enough but that was all they had. I was surprised to learn that they actually have a second facility where they quarantine all fish at least two weeks prior to bringing them into the store! I personally think it's awesome! The other times I'd been in ANA I was amazed at the quality of the stock, not a single dead fish, not even any sick fish!! Well, now I know why, pretty cool. Prices are actually competitive with. The big box stores like petsmart. They are moving over more embers on the 9th, so I will go pick up another ten to fifteen then, as well as some Otos. I got the last two he had but they are going into the 55.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

There are now 10 ember tetras in this tank now. 

Plants are all growing like crazy. I find the submersed growth impressive considering the light is ~44" above the substrate! Hygrophila sp. 'Araguaia' has been growing well and has some incredible coloring. It's a really dark red/maroonish, which considering that this tank is fairly low tech(no co2/no fertz) I think is impressive! The roots of the Pothos have been going crazy in the water. Not the prettiest sight but the fish seem to be far more comfortable since they've really started growing. 

Well here are a few recent pics!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Tank's still growing well. Haven't made any major changes. I lost one Ember Tetra not long after adding the last batch. I would like to add a few more and some shrimp. I've not been focusing too much time or energy into any of my tanks since the start of classes. I do water changes or top offs when needed. There have been far more top offs than actual WCs, due to a lot of evaporation occurring. The plants are doing well above and below the water. Honestly, all of the riparium plants need a hell of a trim, although they probably won't get one right now. 

Gotta love being super busy with school and such. I joined the U of A TriCats, which is the triathlon team, so I've been spending most of my spare time training. It's all good because it builds strength prior to having back surgery... I see the surgeon this Friday so I'll finally have a date set. Hopefully I finally be able to lift 5 gallons of water to do WCs without needing help or having to take some extra narcotics after finishing up.


----------



## rodahl (Dec 1, 2014)

I suggest you try some emergent pennywort. It would make an interesting texture with your other plants.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

rodahl said:


> I suggest you try some emergent pennywort. It would make an interesting texture with your other plants.


I've had some on a few different occasions, though I don't currently have any in this tank.


----------



## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Nice work!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Teebo said:


> Nice work!



Thanks! I haven't messed with this tank much lately. The joy of the last month of the semester. It's mostly just sitting there growing. My HOB died a while back and hasn't been replaced, so most of the plants in it died. I've got some ideas on how to redo a few areas of the above water layout to give it a better look. Just gotta get through it next week and a half! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

WOW!! I just read through this entire thread while drinking my morning coffee! I keep glancing over at the emersed tanks in my room to see if certain plants that were once in this tank are clearly visible. I love the current layout of this tank but it's a little bare, definitely needs more variation both above and below the water. I'd like to add some small pockets of stems back into the aquascape. The riparium plants need more depth. I have been thinking about splitting the planter of cyperus into two as I've got a couple spares and the plant is extremely overgrown. The pothos growing out of the HOB is at least 20+ feet long. I just keep getting more ideas on what I would like to do once I'm finally done with this semester!! Had an exam yesterday, first final is Friday, second final is Monday and then I've got a paper due Tuesday, after that I'm done!!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB*

I recently removed the majority of the riparium planters from this tank, the only planter left is the one of dwarf Cyperus sp. If you have read the newest post on my 55 gallon, I've been mistreating my tanks for a while. This tank has actually faired better than the 55, as it's topless and I live in Arizona, which means that if left alone for more than a couple weeks there is not much water left. So, this tank receives new water every few weeks or my roomies get mad. haha. 



I finally took off the dead HOB that I've been adding water to for way too long. The cyperus is the only plant that I'm not sure I can easily grow elsewhere. The plan is to put an actual glass top on the tank so the water doesn't evaporate so quickly. 



I moved around some of the remaining crypts(mostly small 'Lucens', nurii, and parva), anubais, as well as adding Hydrocotyle tripartita, Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis', three Echinodorus parviflorus, and a variety of different stems from my emersed tanks. I'll have to look back and figure out exactly which emersed stems I used. There's at least one Bacopa sp., Ludwigia Sp. Rubin for sure, and I think there are a couple Rotala sp. I covered the driftwood with a nice big patch of subwassertang. I will try to get some halfway decent pictures.












My biggest issue now is that I need an actual filter. There are a couple dual sponge filters in the tank but I don't think that's anywhere near enough if I ever wanna put any livestock in this tank. I don't think I will ever overload the capacity of tank as far as fish/shrimp/etc. I'm probably gonna go with one of the Eheim filters. Any suggestions on which size canister filter to get? I'm looking at either the 2213 or 2215, I'm definitely open to other options though. I haven't really spent much time looking at the other brands in a few years.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I also have to drop the light from its current height (50") to a more reasonable distance above the water for this setup! The issue with this is that I'm running a 36" fixture over a 30" tank & I'm not sure I've got the mounts for the light to sit on the tank. Until then I've got the LEDs running at 100% for 8hrs a day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L Riparium w/Planted HOB*

I've added a bunch of stuff to this tank. I met up with a fellow Tucson hobbyist and picked up a bunch of free plants, also purchased a few from here and ANA. This tank has WAY too many stems for my current liking but I'm gonna see if I can keep it maintained. 



The lights are still crazy high, I've been trying to think about how high above the tank I should put it. If you haven't looked through this journal, the light is a custom BuildMyLED 36" XB that is basically their Riparium 6500K with 660nm red added. Custom LED Report There is the original report. I've got two of those same fixtures, the other on an emersed tank. I'll probably hang the light 12" above the water surface. 



This week I will be switching the filtration around on my tanks, and adding the Eheim 2215 to this tank. This filter has been running on my 55 for the last couple years. 



Nothing super interesting picture wise. Just some new growth and the new plants.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Got the light fixture lowered. Now it is about 12" above the surface of the water. It hangs over one end of the tank where the hob filter once was, oh well. 
I think I've got it running at about 25%, we'll see how that goes. I'm going to start with a 5hr photoperiod and reduce from there as needed. 




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Everything in this tank has been growing surprisingly well! I even trimmed a couple stems today. 

I added a few stems of Hygrophila araguaia, a couple crypts, and a little Hydrocotyle sp. 'Japan'. I'm definitely pleased with the way this tank has been progressing.

Today I got two amano shrimp for this tank. Along with the shrimp I picked up four Sterbai Corys! I know they will need a larger school but the LFS only had these four. I'll pick up a few more next week.

Thought I had some newer pictures, but they were the same ones I posted above. D'oh! Oh well, I've gotta get some of the 55 in the next couple days, I'll make sure I get this tank too!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The corys have stirred up any bit of mulm remaining on the substrate! I keep using my tweezers to shake it off the plant leaves. The filter has been doing well at sucking it up. Hopefully this will only take a day or so to finish removing any excess mulm. Here are a few shots that I took just after the lights came on today. 









































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

So I've been following this for a couple years, I might have missed it but what did you end up doing with your mangrove?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L*



bbroush said:


> So I've been following this for a couple years, I might have missed it but what did you end up doing with your mangrove?




Unfortunately, the mangrove did not enjoy the lack of humidity in Arizona. It survived about six months after the move before kicking the bucket. Even with regular misting it just wasn't happy from the beginning. It was incredibly disappointing as that was my favorite plant!

I think this is one of the last decent pics of it. At this point the plant was almost 2years old!











Though I've removed most of the riparium plants from this tank, I will definitely doing another one in the future. I learned a lot about this hobby from my riparium & I enjoyed keeping it immensely. I will probably do one on a much larger scale and with different tank dimensions. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

johnson18 said:


> Unfortunately, the mangrove did not enjoy the lack of humidity in Arizona. It survived about six months after the move before kicking the bucket. Even with regular misting it just wasn't happy from the beginning. It was incredibly disappointing as that was my favorite plant!
> 
> I think this is one of the last decent pics of it. At this point the plant was almost 2years old!
> 
> ...




Ah man that sucks. 

So mine was doing really well, too well actually. Haha. I wasn't ever trimming it and it was at least three feet tall. But I got rid of it because of the roots! They grew so fast and I was really worried because people had told me horror stories about how they could just the seams of the tank. I miss that thing. It was my favorite plant other than my ruellia which is still going strong. Or my pothos which before moving had three branches 25 feet long each. 

I think riparium plants are awesome. I look forward to seeing where you go with this journal


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

bbroush said:


> Ah man that sucks.
> 
> So mine was doing really well, too well actually. Haha. I wasn't ever trimming it and it was at least three feet tall. But I got rid of it because of the roots! They grew so fast and I was really worried because people had told me horror stories about how they could just the seams of the tank. I miss that thing. It was my favorite plant other than my ruellia which is still going strong. Or my pothos which before moving had three branches 25 feet long each.
> 
> I think riparium plants are awesome. I look forward to seeing where you go with this journal




That's awesome yours did so well! I always saw some of the big ones and loved them! I'm definitely going to grow them again! I would love to have a Mr. Aqua MA-610 as to do a riparium in! That 24x24x12 is such a rad size!! Of course the Deep Blue 80g frag tank is pretty amazing too!  I am obviously dreaming here. lol. 


I have been thinking about putting some sort of Apistogramma species in this tank. They're just a fish I know quite little about. I've definitely got my research to do first. I grew up breeding Firemouths so I've always had a love for cichlids. 

I'm planning to add some more Sterbai corys first though. The LFS should have some more in next week. I think I'll add 4-6 more to the current 4. I want to have a nice little school going on. 

I might need to throw together a bare bottom quarantine tank. I've got plenty of tanks around though, so no issue there. Plus, this tank has a couple big sponge filters stuffed back behind the driftwood. I probably have 3 or 4 more brand new sponge filters in a box in the closet with most of my spare aquarium goods. Hmmm.... I hadn't thought about that until just now. I've not kept enough fish since I moved to AZ in summer of 2014 to warrant needing one. 

Here's a fts from almost lights out tonight. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L*

I've been doing a lot of online reading and research about different fish species that I might want to put into this tank. I think it is time to reach out for some ideas from the forum! I know I previously mentioned Apistogrammas, I am still looking at some of the different Apisto species having never kept them. Dario Dario is another species I have been reading about, although I'm not sure I have to time to deal with the constant live feedings. I also really enjoy some of the micro species of rasboras and such as a small schooling fish to go with the others. The tank is up to 6 Sterbai corys, which I think will be the max on those. Along with the two Amano shrimp & a nerite snail.



I'd really like a pair of smaller fish that will be the main spotlight species in the tank, hence the Apistos & Dario Dario. Plus a smaller species that will fill the upper regions of the water column. At this point I'm fully open to suggestions, if anyone has some! I feel like the tank almost has too much flow for some of these species, though I could tone it down with a spray bar or other method if needed!



The plants have REALLY been filling in! I've got a couple pics on my phone I will try to get posted this afternoon after class. It is beginning to look amazing! I need to do a major trim of all the stems to get things to fill in a little closer. I've been pleased with the growth lately!

Edit: Pics! These were taken for me by a roommate a few days back. I've not been home while the light are on in almost a week! I'll try to get a fts today!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Just a couple fts from today. 

The lfs had a gorgeous pair of A. Borellii "blue" the other day! I didn't buy them. lol. I definitely thought about it. I had just added the last two cories and two more Amanos though. The tank needed time to adjust to the increased bioload. Plus I still need to add the school of dither fish, which some sort of Boraras species. 





























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I did a huge trim & replant this evening with a water change. 

I've decided to go with a small school of Microdevario kubotai. 

I'm pretty much decided on an Apistogramma pair, not sure on which species though. I'm currently leaning towards the A. borellii, or one of the A. agassizii variations. Thoughts? What Apistos have/do you keep? Which one's do you like the best? I have heard that some of them don't do well with Excel? This tank lives on Excel!!


----------



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> I did a huge trim & replant this evening with a water change.
> 
> I've decided to go with a small school of Microdevario kubotai.
> 
> I'm pretty much decided on an Apistogramma pair, not sure on which species though. I'm currently leaning towards the A. borellii, or one of the A. agassizii variations. Thoughts? What Apistos have/do you keep? Which one's do you like the best? I have heard that some of them don't do well with Excel? This tank lives on Excel!!


Just pick one they're all awesome. They do just fine with excel dosing.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/149-photography/1107058-show-me-your-apisto-ill-show-you-mine.html


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Nlewis said:


> Just pick one they're all awesome. They do just fine with excel dosing.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/149-photography/1107058-show-me-your-apisto-ill-show-you-mine.html


Ha! I know, I know...... I've been soooo picky with this tank!! I guess I usually feel like I rush into fish purchases. I think part of the time and thought I have put into the stocking of this tank is that I'm so freaking busy right now!! Today I saw my tanks with the lights actually on for the first time since Sunday!! No point to buy fish when I'm not around to make sure everything is going great for them. 

That thread doesn't make this any easier!


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L*

I haven't been messing with my tanks much this last few weeks, too many exams and such. Spring break is next week so I'm hoping to put a little time in working on all my tanks. I actually am skipping my first class this morning as my back is absolutely killing me. I took that opportunity to flip on the lights and take a look at things since I haven't been home during the photoperiod in a while.

I've been quite pleased with the growth the plants in here have seen lately! The AR is finally taking off! Gonna have way too much in here soon! 










As you can see there has been a little bit of algae pop up on the glass. I'm not too worried about it as it gives the Amano shrimp & nerite snail something to munch on. 










So in the lower right corner of this pic, front left of the tank, there's a random Aponogeton sp. popping up. Funny bc I've never had one in this tank. The same species popped up in my 55 a few years ago too. Lol. No clue. 





































I had just topped off the water level so things were a bit stirred up.











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L*

This tank may get some new in habitants this weekend depending on how auctions go at the event I'm headed to in Phoenix on Saturday. There are several Apisto species up for grabs. I posted some questions on the recent apisto pic thread but I'll throw the list here too. If anyone has thoughts on any of these species, please feel free to share. I've also found a few of these on aquabid in my attempt to figure out reasonable prices but if anyone has ideas on the less common fish on this list, I'd welcome a PM about costs. It is also completely possible I come back from PHX with nothing. Lol. That's the fun of auctions of course!! @bobriley2345 any thoughts on this auction list?










This tank has been chugging along. Some of the stems have been doing well. It's almost time for a trim but I think I'm going to let most stuff grow a bit more. Added a couple Crypt. affinis 'metallic red' to this tank, most went elsewhere. 




























I've got a couple pieces of manzanita that I was thinking about tossing in at an angle across the tank from the back right towards front left. I hate adding hardscape after having a tank running for a while. It might provide the occupants a little more security. Since I've already got a distinct row of planting across the tank in the same manner, the E. parvoflorus, it might be easier than in some other scapes. I would probably try to wrap some of the manzanita with the same moss as the wood currently in the tank. 

I've also added a few IAL to darken the water a little more.


Bump: I've also been kicking around the idea of setting up one of my 40 breeders as an upgraded tank for Apistos once my new shelving is finished. Not necessarily full on black water but definitely a darker tank. Lots of Cryptocorynes(if you've read through any of my journals you know my love for Crypts), lots of manzanita, maybe some leaf litter and lower light levels. So this may not be a permanent residence for any apistos I get this weekend. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

bobriley2345 said:


> Rarest is Apistogramma sp Abacaxis. I would go for that species, but definately not in the heavily planted tank. Most abacaxis---if truly identified correctly are found in pH's of around 3.9! My friend who got me my new pair actually was the first importer of Abacaxis in the United States, simply due to their rarity. Read up about their requirements as they are demanding fish, but very very very rewarding!
> 
> If you are unable to purchase them for under 45-60 at the auction, I would purchase them from PureFishWorks on Facebook. They are the only other place to find wild caughts. The Cichlid Garden may have them as well, but I have never ordered through them!
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information. While I'm definitely interested in the abacaxis, I am definitely aware I don't have the correct set up to house them, along with some of the other wilds. This tank currently only has a 5.5hr photoperiod & I really do need to reduce either the length or light intensity. I will probably end up doing a little of both. 

Depending on the outcome of the auction, I may end up grabbing a gorgeous little pair of A. borellii that my LFS, Arizona Nature Aquatics, has hiding in a black water tank, separate from the his main sales tanks.
As I stated, I'm finishing up building some shelving, so I'll have 8' x 2' worth of room for tanks top and bottom! I will definitely be looking into a few more appropriate tanks for wild Apistos.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

bobriley2345 said:


> I think that tank would be suitable for Baenschi or Erythura after second thoughts. Both I have seend doing well in other systems!




Those are the main two I was interested in from that list that didn't seem too extreme in parameters. I like the looks of both. I was able to find far less basic info on A. erythrura than A. baenschi though. 

I picked up these two hut/cave things. The smaller one listed as an "apisto hut" and the larger as a "cichlid hut." I will get them in the tank tonight. I'll probably try to hide one behind or near the current wood arch that creates a nice dark area under and behind. The other I'll place surrounded by some of the dense plantings. 










The couple IAL in the tank need to be replaced so I will do that tonight too. I also picked up a little assorted bag of goodies like leaves and alder cones. Part of that will go into the tank over the next few days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've got a bunch of peacock moss in the tank already, none to spare though. There's a bunch growing out in my 55 that I might be able to cover them with. I may just have to deal with the color for now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Some of this I posted into the Apisto thread.... 

I picked up a pair of Apistogramma erythrura that are F1 from a collection trip to Bolivia by Drs. Tom Wilkinson & Ron Harlan in August if last year! I'm sure those names probably don't mean much to y'all, they certainly don't really to me. Tom's a long term Apisto collector & Ron seems to be all about the Killifish. They put on a presentation about this specific collection trip. Seems they've both collected fish from places all around the world! 

These are fairly young Apistos but easily sexed and already showing great colors( & that's inside a breeder bag being looked at by everyone!)

There were two pairs there, I considered picking up both. I let the first pair go at $45 bc the pair I really wanted was this pair. I even got them for less than that. 

I was amazed at the prices that everything went for! It was my first fish related auction.

Picked up a couple big lots of subwassertang, some Ludwigia species & one huge Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia(it's gorgeous!!)!! The other thing we thing we picked up(my dad just had to have it!) is a Dragon Fruit plant var. 'Physical Graffiti'.


I'm probably gonna try to use some of the Subwassertang to cover the terra cotta huts.

I also picked up a trio (m,f,f) of Aphyosemion australe BSWG 97-24 Cap Esterias, along with two pairs of Aphyosemion cinnamoneum Kurume APL 13-35. I've never owned any Killifish, so this will be a new one for me. The trio may go in this tank & the others in my 55 as the water in each tank suits those species requirements. I will probably set up tanks for both individual species. Mostly because I really, really want M. kubotai for this tank! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SteppingStones (Aug 8, 2014)

Looking forward to seeing some pictures! Once things get acclimated of course. I frequent fish auctions, so I know how hard it is to go without leaving with a couple bags of fish lol. I have Microdevarios in my 20H, great little rasbora for sure.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L- New Apisto Pair!*

The A. australe trio went into this tank along with the Apistos. I know this isn't ideal and I should have qt tanks running. All of the fish looked healthy(which doesn't necessarily mean a damn thing) and I'll be keeping a close eye on things. If I keep the killis in this tank in the long run, I'll probably add at least another trio. If I don't, I'll probably get another trio & put them all into a 10 gallon tank. The Killifish were donated to the auction by another Tucson hobbyist, so I'm fairly certain I've got a source for more.

I saw all of the new fish yesterday, to some degree or another. 

The killis were out swimming around. They had already colored up significantly since the night/morning before(it was well after midnight by the time everyone was acclimatized and into tanks!) The male was enjoying the current around the far end of the tank from the outflow. Every once in a while one of the females would show up there and his colors would get super intense. She would also start to show her colors too, but not as much. Otherwise the females mostly stayed fairly drab, although looked much nice than the scared white minnow look of the day before. All three are fairly young, so I'm sure it will take some time to fully color up! 

Here is what a full grown breeding pair of these killis looks like.










Male- this dude doesn't ever stop.




























Females



















The Apistos were a different story. I saw the female out in front of the moss covered wood arch. That area is heavily planted so my glimpse was through the heavy plant cover just above the substrate level. She looked good though, was much darker than the day before. The male, well, I saw this tail. Hahaha.... I was checking the sponge filters, which are in the back right corner behind the driftwood. I had stuck my head along that side to see the condition on the sponge & his tail was visible on the far side. I'm sure they just need some more time. 

In the bag:




























Collection habitat data:










I'm sure me messing around with the tank off and on all day didn't help anything! 

I took two huge portions of subwassertang and covered the huts using plant weights. I know the weights aren't ideal but I had them & it meant the least amount of time spent with my hands in and out of the tank. A few stems on Ludwigia repens went in this tank as well. Mixed with the repens were a few small bits of Salvinia minima that I tossed in. 

The biggest thing I did to the tank yesterday was build a cover. Killifish are known jumpers. While this species is not a huge jumper, I'd rather be safe. Plus it'll cut down on the massive amount of evaporation as well as reduce the light levels just a bit. 

Covered for the night! 










New cover! It was an old remainder piece of a larger sheet & is a bit warped.










Here's a random shot from me trying to photograph the male... it catches the tannins that my normal tank pictures don't!













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

absolutely stunning fish! also was that an in tank shot???


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Got home from the library a bit after midnight, second & third rounds of midterm exams this week & next. After taking the dogs out, I noticed movement in this tank while walking passed in the dark w/just my phone flashlight. I took a closer looks & it was the male Apisto!! He was on the far side of the tank from his caves. Rather than duck back into the heavy plant growth right next to him as I peered in, he came closer flaring out all his fins. Nice to see him out and about in the tank, even if it was in the middle of the night! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Added 13 Nannostomus marginatus, the Dwarf Pencilfish, to this tank as dithers! Hopefully they will help the Apistos feel more at ease. 

In the bag:










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

hm, uncommon fish, I like it


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L- New Apisto Pair!*



BettaBettas said:


> hm, uncommon fish, I like it



Thanks! 
I'd originally been looking at Microdevario kubotai but the more I looked I decided I wanted something from the region. I know these are not actually from the same area as the A. erythrura but they're both South American & the same water types. My LFS usually has a couple different Pencilfish species in stock, today it was five types, I believe. He also had some new Apistos in stock, four different species! He did tell me at one point that his Apistogramma list was a full page long. 

I was absolutely amazed! Within 3 hours of releasing this crew, the female Apisto was out swimming around! I didn't get my camera all in her face today, there will be more time for that in the future! 

This pretty much finishes out my stocking of this tank. Here's what I've got:
2(1m/1f) x F1 Apistogramma erythrura 
4 x Corydoras sterbai 
13 x Nannostomus marginatus
6(I think?) x Caridina multidentata
3(1m/2f) x Aphyosemion australe
Cap Esterias BSWG 97/24 

If anyone has thoughts or comments about my stocking list, I am open to thoughts and discussion. 

The killifish will probably go to their own tank soon, but my first priority on the killifish tank goes to getting the other species outta my shrimp tank! 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Finally saw the Apistos. I decided to feed some frozen bloodworms last night and boom, there they were! Having gotten them in a breather bag I knew they were small.... Until I got to see them in the tank with some of the other fish as reference, I don't think I realized quite how small they really are!! The Sterbai corys made them look tiny. The female is maybe 0.75 inches & they make is probably 1.25 inches! She was smaller than most of the Pencilfish in the tank, about the size of the smaller female killi! 

I didn't get a pic of the male. He was looking good though, a nice red tail, really coloring up. I know he has a way to go until he is fully developed. 

Here's the female:



























Here's a Cory & both female killis w/the female Apisto. It kinda looks like she's super far back from the others but she is less than an inch from them!! 









This female killi has been getting nice and orange! If you look at the first few pics of them they were almost white! Now they are both a nice orange color with that bright blue-ish colored eyes! The pic doesn't fully capture the orange color!









Random Dwarf Pencilfish











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L- New Apisto Pair!*

I'm not sure how y'all get decent pictures of your Apistos. I've cannot seem to get a good picture of my male! Even with the lack of pictures, I'm fairly pleased to say that the inhabitants of this tank seem happy. All of the fish are out and about, showing good coloration, along with eating well. I'm really enjoying my choice of the Dwarf Pencilfish. They are quite an interesting little group. 

I've pulled out a few different stems to throw into my 55. They have been replaced by a variety of Crypts and some dwarf sag. I think this change along with the fact I've stopped dosing Excel regularly, has lead to a slight increase in diatoms on the front glass. No big surprise there. I've got some metricide 14 that arrived over the weekend. I'll be dosing that now, diluted of course. 























































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Here's a few pictures I've gotten recently. 
The pair of Apisto. erythrura 




























The male:




























The female:










In the sunlight.










A. australe - The killis

A couple shots of the males in the bit of early morning sun this tank gets briefly this time of year. 




























Now for some tank shots- this thing is getting packed full of plants!

The male Apisto. is also in this one



























The same end under normal lighting









The other end









Everyone followed me to this end for these pics













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Thank you for sharing those pictures


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L- New Apisto Pair!*

Damn! I didn't realize that I haven't updated this since the end of April!! The tank doesn't quite look the same, and yet it does. The stems on the left are still there, the rest is a mix of the Echinodorus parviflorus swords, Sagittaria subulata, narrow leaf Java fern, & a lot of Crypts- x willisii 'lucens', lots of parva, lutea, undulata, affinis 'metallic red', wendtii 'tropica' & 'green gecko' and a couple nurii. I recently also added some more dwarf sag, Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, along with a couple small Barclaya longifolia. 

These two were right as I fed tonight, which is why there's little specs all over the water's surface. Fluval Bug Bites.


















Overall, I keep trying to make this an easier tank to maintain. The stems will eventually go away but not until the Crypts have grown to full height, I also need to add a few taller Crypts right at the back, probably C. spiralis or something similar. I might even throw something like leopard Val into the back. I need to keep the tank heavily planted in order to make sure the Apistos are comfortable. 



















I've struggled to keep the peacock moss attached to the driftwood. Having tried a number of different tactics, short of gluing it in the water, I'm giving up on it. As the substrate is dirt capped with BDBS, the driftwood is sitting on the bottom with the dirt surrounding it which means I can't pull it out to attach it out of the water. I've started to attach small pieces of narrow leaf Java fern as my plants reproduce. I will also be attaching bucephalandra in certain areas too. It's tough to find a balance here where the Java fern will not overtake the Buce. 



















This tank has struggled with hair algae nonstop since I redid things in January, I've tweaked the photoperiod a number of times as well as the light's dimmer. I'll be borrowing a PAR meter sometime this week to see where I'm at in this tank, along with the rest of my tanks. 










The stocking is still pretty much the same as in April. I added a second trio of A. australe 'Cap Esterias', they will finally be getting their own tank soon. 





































All 13 of the Dwarf Pencilfish are still doing great. 




























The pair of F1 Apistogramma erythrura have grown nicely & developed into some super nice specimen! I still have struggled to get some good pictures of them. It probably doesn't help that my only camera is my iPhone. 

Female









Female 









Female









Male









Male









Male









I've got a bunch of more picture I'd like to post. I'll do so in a following post of just pictures, along with pics of the new fish I picked up today!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

If I remember correctly Tapatalk has a 20 pic limit per post, or at least it did. I figured it was easier to just post a second post of more pics.

Today I picked up 3 Carnegiella strigata, Marbled Hatchetfish, that I added to this tank. I'm considering using these fish for my upcoming blackwater 40 breeder. Since I've never kept them, I thought I'd pick up a small school(3 was all my LFS had) to see how I like them. I know 3 is not enough for a school of hatchetfish & I will be picking up some more soon. 






































Here are some shots of the Male Apistogramma erythrura in the early morning sunlight. This tank only gets sunlight in the early morning during a couple weeks per year. 



















Back to artificial light...


















Sterbai corydoras



























Random shots



















Got a super tannin rich WC a while back...

























































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Williak (Jun 26, 2012)

That FTS is looking nice. Lush. 

Where did you get those submerged plants, cyperus?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Williak said:


> That FTS is looking nice. Lush.
> 
> Where did you get those submerged plants, cyperus?
> 
> ...




Thank you! It still has a long way to go. 

Are you asking about the emergent growth? The plant growing out of the back of the tank? If I remember correctly, it's a dwarf papyrus. I got it from @hydrophyte several years ago. It is the sole remnant of this tanks days as a ripariam. It is the only plant that survived the dry air of AZ after the move from SC in 2014. I've kept it, along with the rest of my rip. supplies as I'd like to set up another riparium at some point. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

Love the tank and the Cyclids.


----------



## Williak (Jun 26, 2012)

johnson18 said:


> Thank you! It still has a long way to go.
> 
> Are you asking about the emergent growth? The plant growing out of the back of the tank? If I remember correctly, it's a dwarf papyrus. I got it from @hydrophyte several years ago. It is the sole remnant of this tanks days as a ripariam. It is the only plant that survived the dry air of AZ after the move from SC in 2014. I've kept it, along with the rest of my rip. supplies as I'd like to set up another riparium at some point.
> 
> ...




Doh! lol yes I meant emerged growth. 

I love those papyrus I want to find one for my planters, I just love the strong tall growth. I'll check around on some riparium sites. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Williak said:


> Doh! lol yes I meant emerged growth.
> 
> I love those papyrus I want to find one for my planters, I just love the strong tall growth. I'll check around on some riparium sites.
> 
> ...




If you don't find any at Riparium Supply(I know stock changes constantly) let me know, I'll split mine in half and send some your way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Rogozhin75 said:


> Love the tank and the Cyclids.




Thank you! I've got Apistos in most of my tanks now! The plan is to add several new tanks in the next couple of weeks that will almost all be used for Apistos as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

It looks fantastic! I am going to move the synodontis out of the bottom 75 soon I think. Do you feel that Cory's will hamper Apisto's ability to raise fry? The syno's I have are dwarfs. mostly lucipinnis. Id like either corys or loaches


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> It looks fantastic! I am going to move the synodontis out of the bottom 75 soon I think. Do you feel that Cory's will hamper Apisto's ability to raise fry? The syno's I have are dwarfs. mostly lucipinnis. Id like either corys or loaches




Thanks! The Apistos in this tank haven't spawned yet. They were quite young when I got them. 

Everything I've read says don't put corys in a tank with Apistos that you wish to breed. There have been numerous examples of one-eyed corys, or corys with both eyes missing. The consensus seems to be that the corys don't respond to the breeding Apistos body language warning them to stay away from their spawning site, which results in the Apisto attacking the corydoras. Since eyes are the unarmored part of the cory, that is what suffers. 

It appears that some of the smaller plecos will do alright as they don't only occupy the bottom of the water column. Otos are a common choice. My current plan for the blackwater 40b is to go with a couple L066, although I'm still checking out a few similar species. 

As for the school of sterbai in this tank, odds are that once the pair of Apistos in mature and start spawning the corys will be moved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

so @TheDude1 I just remembered a convo I had with the owner of my LFS who is crazy knowledgeable about all things freshwater but loves Apistos. I asked about Apistos and corydoras, specifically Pygmy since they spend more time in the mid-water region. He suggested that if I go with any corys, that Corydoras hastatus might actually work since they spend more time in the mid-water region than any of the other species.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, bad news. Not entirely sure what happened. I've been finding dead dwarf pencilfish daily for the last few days & I can't find any of the six Aphyosemion australe, not even the remains. Don't know who died first but it's obviously set off a chain reaction of fouling water & killing more fish. I've done a couple big water changes & will continue to do so on a daily basis until things level off. Everyone looks healthy so I'm guessing it's water quality related after the first death. I did notice that the air flow through the sponge filter was next to nothing. I'm wondering if it was reduced enough that the water flow through it stopped and the B.B. started to die off causing the initial issue. I've fixed the air flow issue. I will be pulling the sponge filter during today's WC and thoroughly rinsing the sponges.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L- Apistos &amp; Pencilfish! 2 Posts of New Pics!!*

The Apisto pair has been pulled & moved to a separate tank. They don't show any signs of illness, even stressed out in a bag they look good!
This is the first time I've really gotten a good look at them since they went into the tank. Nice to see how well they are developing!










I'll probably throw together an extra tank using an extra sponge filter from one of my 10s & water from my 55. I'd rather pull all the remaining fish from the tank than leave them all to die. This will let me give the tank time to cycle through any excess nutrients from the deaths. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I hope you don't take this the wrong way as its meant as a compliment, but hearing that I am not alone in the mysterious fish death category is reassuring. I was actually just thinking that I wish I had gone with a large group of Pencilfish as they are generally regarded as hardier. You are fortunate to have saved some of the Apisto's. Within like 3 or 4 days I lost my regular Triple Red and 4 females. I'm really disheartened. 
Have you measured ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, TDS, or any of that? I didn't even look at the tanks today. I know I should to make sure I don't find any dead fish, but I want a disappointment free day. 
How many Pencilfish did you lose? Any signs? How long had they been in the tank? Any hypothesis as to the cause?


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

johnson18 said:


> This tank has changed a ton since this first post. Check it out a couple pages in, latest reboot was in Dec. 2016, around page 20!


I was so looking forward to viewing your tank.

Pics please.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's 20L- Apistos &amp; Pencilfish! 2 Posts of New Pics!!*



Hilde said:


> I was so looking forward to viewing your tank.
> 
> Pics please.




The pics from 10-1 are the most recent pics I've got. Through Tapatalk they are on page 33, post # 322.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> I hope you don't take this the wrong way as its meant as a compliment, but hearing that I am not alone in the mysterious fish death category is reassuring. I was actually just thinking that I wish I had gone with a large group of Pencilfish as they are generally regarded as hardier. You are fortunate to have saved some of the Apisto's. Within like 3 or 4 days I lost my regular Triple Red and 4 females. I'm really disheartened.
> 
> Have you measured ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, TDS, or any of that? I didn't even look at the tanks today. I know I should to make sure I don't find any dead fish, but I want a disappointment free day.
> 
> How many Pencilfish did you lose? Any signs? How long had they been in the tank? Any hypothesis as to the cause?




I almost tagged you in the post here. When it rains, it pours right? Im glad I'm not the only one dealing with this kind of [censored][censored][censored][censored]. It is definitely disheartening. I hate losing livestock, but I also know that [censored][censored][censored][censored] happens sometimes.

I've not had time to measure anything, this week is crazy busy with school as I try to catch up after missing two full weeks due to pain. 

I'm fairly positive that the sponge filter was the cause of all of this. It stopped receiving air flow, which caused it to cease having water flow through it. At that point I'm guessing that the bacteria began dying, which caused the issue. I pulled it from the tank yesterday. I've done a couple water changes the last few days. After removing the sponge filter yesterday, there have been no more deaths. The tank still has the Eheim 2215 running in it, so no worries about it not having a filter. 

So far the list of losses is as follows:
6 (2M, 4F)- Aphyosemion australe Cap Estrias BSWG 97-24
2- marble hatchetfish
2- corydoras sterbai
8ish- Nannostomus marginatus 

This leaves 4-8 Nannostomus marginatus, 1 Nannostomus trifasciatus, 1 corydoras sterbai, 1 marble hatchetfish.

Everything in the tank looks healthy, even the dead fish don't look bad. The Dwarf Pencilfish have been in the tank for almost 8 months. The hatchetfish were the most recent fish added to the tank about a month ago. I don't think they were the cause as they were some of the most recent fish to die. 

Even with the current losses in this tank, I've still had much better luck with pencilfish than with tetras. These are the first pencilfish I've ever lost, out of the 50+ I have.

Definitely glad I got the Apisto pair out of this tank. They are looking fine in the 10g, it doesn't have quite as much growth as this tank yet, so they are a little shy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So there have been no losses for almost 48hrs. I'm not sure I'm totally out of the woods yet though. I took a good look at what remains in the tank last night. 

6 pencilfish: 5 Dwarfs, 1 trifasciatus
1 corydoras sterbai

I was incorrect on the hatchetfish, I was going off of found bodies, but I obviously never found any of the killies so that's not a great method. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Your doing better than I am. The cardinals keep dropping. I wouldn't be surprised if they were all wiped out by tomorrow. Funny thing is they all look great and are swimming normally... I think I'm going with Lemon Tetras and Clown Loaches and something else. I think I'm over even apisto's at this point. 
I really like the Gertrude Rainbows and Furcata, but they are like $7 a piece... Ive spent my money. I just want a nice lively school... alive being the key word


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> Your doing better than I am. The cardinals keep dropping. I wouldn't be surprised if they were all wiped out by tomorrow. Funny thing is they all look great and are swimming normally... I think I'm going with Lemon Tetras and Clown Loaches and something else. I think I'm over even apisto's at this point.
> 
> I really like the Gertrude Rainbows and Furcata, but they are like $7 a piece... Ive spent my money. I just want a nice lively school... alive being the key word




That’s super unfortunate to hear that your experience has soured to the point of being over Apistos too. It is totally understandable though. A few years ago I lost my entire collection of emersed Crypts, mostly semi rare, during and immediately following a move. I didn’t touch an emersed set up for three years before finally setting up my current 40b. I hope that with time you are able to find yourself enjoying cardinals and Apistos again. 

I love my Gertrude’s Rainbowfish! I paid between $2-4 per fish, with the exception of a recent pair of Aru IV which I got for a buck at an auction. If you can find someone in your area who actively keeps and breeds them that is your best bet. I can get the P. gertrudae ‘Aru IV’ from a buddy who breeds them for like $4/ea. I know he makes more than that selling them to the LFS though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

johnson18 said:


> That’s super unfortunate to hear that your experience has soured to the point of being over Apistos too. It is totally understandable though. A few years ago I lost my entire collection of emersed Crypts, mostly semi rare, during and immediately following a move. I didn’t touch an emersed set up for three years before finally setting up my current 40b. I hope that with time you are able to find yourself enjoying cardinals and Apistos again.
> 
> I love my Gertrude’s Rainbowfish! I paid between $2-4 per fish, with the exception of a recent pair of Aru IV which I got for a buck at an auction. If you can find someone in your area who actively keeps and breeds them that is your best bet. I can get the P. gertrudae ‘Aru IV’ from a buddy who breeds them for like $4/ea. I know he makes more than that selling them to the LFS though.
> 
> ...


Its funny you say that. I originally fell in love with Furcata Rainbows when I set up the top tank. I anticipated an instant cycle due to reusing old substrate and an already established filter. Of my original group of 7 (at like $9 a piece) only a female has survived. Recently she has started to really get some crazy color for a female. I'm really soured by the tetra die off... and I was considering Lemon Tetras... but man I was thinking a group of Furcata or Gertrude sure would look awesome and add some awesome action to the tank. I really need a school of 20 plus to have what I want, but in my experience and what Ive seen on YouTube they are far more active and better schoolers than the lemon tetras. I'm kind of thinking about turning my lemons into lemonade. The Rainbows lasted a very long time while I was struggling with the cycle. 
Do you have some pics of your Gertrude's?? Id love to see them settled and really showing their best. I think Rainbows are really the only fish that can compare to a large group of cardinals in beauty or a large group of Rummynose in activity.


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The fish finally stopped dying, not long after my last post. Only lost one more of the Dwarf Pencilfish. I haven’t added anymore fish back into the tank. I figure I might as well give the tank some time to get back to normal. I put in two new dual sponge filters, both fairly large. 

I planted six pots of emersed Cryptocoryne parva into the left side of the tank. I’ll probably be removing the majority of the stems. Most of them haven’t been growing well anyways. I just don’t have enough light over this tank for many stems to do well. Maybe I should just run a longer photoperiod, maybe I will anyways. The Crypts could all use a longer photoperiod. Either way, most of the stems are leaving. Just gonna be lots of Cryptocoryne species, well, plus all the other stuff in this tank!  I’m tempted to order a bunch more pots of Crypt parva...



















Not sure what’s gonna go into this tank. The Apisto erythrura pair looks way better in a tank of their own(plus 4 corydoras habrosus) than they ever did in here. That’s true even with a hell of a lot less plants coverage! They probably will not return to this tank. The Dwarf Pencilfish school will be rebuilt. I love the C. sterbai but damn they’re pricey. 



















I’d like to go back with a pair of some sort of Apistos though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I love Crypt Parva, but even with C02 its slow... but it just looks so nice. I'm looking forward to seeing this progress. Any chance of getting the pencilfish to breed?


----------



## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I’ve always loved Crypt parva, this isn’t the first time I’ve planted large quantities into this tank. Idk if you noticed but the 10g that the Apisto pair from this tank is currently in has a bunch of parva too... There is actually quite a few parva already in this tank(20L). I’ll wait an see how it transitions to submersed growth and then decide if I want to add more. 

I would like to attempt the breeding of pencilfish, but this is not the tank to do it in. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

