# best way to distribute co2 to a 6 foot tank



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Lots of current and blast the outlet into the current, use a spray bar etc.

I like venturi valves(the nice ones) for larger tanks, these blast micro bubbles very consistently and require no maintainece unlike disc which need cleaning, and the trade off? Cost namely, but vs ADA and several disc, these appear better suited.

You can use multiple disc also, or multiple internal reactors also, or a combo of both.

I use the mazzei+ reactor in a sump for larger tanks

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

Thank for the reply Tom.
By venturi valve do you mean those powerheads with venturi? I do have one old Aquaclear 404 powerhead,. you planted a new challenge in my head now. !
I am going to try this powerhead, attached (as you described) to a spray bar just to see if is more efficient than a DIY reactor.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Nice job setting that up....DC


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

Thank DC.
I had fun doing it.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

distrbd said:


> Thank for the reply Tom.
> By venturi valve do you mean those powerheads with venturi? I do have one old Aquaclear 404 powerhead,. you planted a new challenge in my head now. !
> I am going to try this powerhead, attached (as you described) to a spray bar just to see if is more efficient than a DIY reactor.


No, the Mazzei:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/7963/cid/4000

But you can use a cheapy air stone to reduce the bubble size and noise and feed the CO2 into the suction side of the powerhead, the impeller will chop up the smaller bubbles without much noise and it should be finer mist.

Direct this mist downward slightly into the plant beds/groups etc.
You should see dramatic pearling and growth in a day.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## nellis (Oct 27, 2005)

perhaps i'm short sighted, but what makes those mazzi things so expensive... the look like cheap diy reactors. are the threaded ends for flow to/from an powerhead or canister?


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

I agree with DC. Looks good, *distrbd*.

Is that a solenoid in the picture?


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## obet_07304 (Jul 23, 2006)

nellis said:


> perhaps i'm short sighted, but what makes those mazzi things so expensive... the look like cheap diy reactors. are the threaded ends for flow to/from an powerhead or canister?


Yeah, it shocked me too when i looked at the price.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

*Went and finally did it!*

OK, well thanks to the idea from distrbd & the parts from Rex, I modified my Milwaukee all in 1 by removing the old bubble counter ,and replacing it with a mini-manifold, and 2 clippard needle valves into 2 DIY bubble counters, and 2 reactors, each hooked up to an Eheim 2026 at either end of the tank.
I picked up these glass 10 Dram glass vials from the container store for 1.50 each. (click pic for larger view).


They had an inverted plastic cone in the cap to seal air-tight, but that had to come out when I drilled for the tubing. I used a soft nylon washer for a garden hose to seal the cap, and use the smaller hole than hose diameter to seal the in, and out.


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## bergzy (Jul 19, 2005)

so far, the above ideas have been great, i must say! 

another twist on co2 distribution could be...

split the co2 output like walter did and have each go to separate co2 reactors with their output on opposite sides of the tank.

i have been very happy with the aquamedic 1000 reactor. it flows water through co2, forcing it to dissolve into the water as it passes through rather than bubbling co2 into the water. increased co2 efficiency use.

next...whatcha need is good tank circulation to swirl all that wonderful dissolved co2 evenly throughout the tank. a 6' tank...hmmm...what better pump to 'gently' swirl water at an incredible high gph? 

a tunze stream!!!
Tunze Turbelle Stream Water Pump/Powerhead - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store

dont want to break the bank? seio's do an almost as awesome job but at a much, much lower cost.
Seio Aquarium Water Pump/Powerhead by Taam - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store

in reality, with such awesome tank turnover via circulation...read gentle circulation...one should be able to get away with one good co2 reactor. ever since i increased my little 29g flow (gently), plant growth has increased, things look healthier, fish are happier, more stable pH and the anoxia gremlins have been banished. plus, these high flow gentle 'stream' pumps use very little electricity in comparison to powerheads.

i use three large seio's on my 180g reef in where excellent circulation is required. i may one day go with two tunze's but at the moment, i see no reason to change everything out. gentle extreme flow circulation pumps are the rage right now and there is fierce competition to make them with higher flow but more 'gentle' as well.

just another twist on the multiple ways of achieving the same results!


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Ben...

OK, I like the Seio, and it looks like (correct me if I am wrong) that you can feed CO2 into it, and have CO2 misting. 
Back when I thought I was going to have a reef set-up I read up on the tunze, and thought they were a great idea. 

I've been looking for something to help with circulation in the middle of the tank, and i might break down, and try this. 
Now I need to weight the benefits of the Seio vs hooking up a small pump to an eheim install kit.

Are the Seio adjustable? the 620 which seems like the smallest pushes 620 gph!?


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## bergzy (Jul 19, 2005)

hi walt!

there is an air inlet that you could, in theory, feed co2 into it. i have never used the air feature so i dont know how fine of a mist it will create. i have one seio near the top of the tank that sucks air up...it is profoundly noisy but does create a somewhat fine mist...though ths is a completely different gas introduction and dispersion method!

the seio is hard to beat for price to cost of gph. the 620 uses 8 watts and pushes 620 gallons...yep...it does...(without air of course). the only thing better is the tunze (at the moment) at 11 watts for 1600gph. absolutely amazing.

the higher end tunze sterams are truly electronically adjustable while the seio's rely on good old flow restriction via adjust the inlet vents. i have never adjusted them and run them at full bore for max flow! 

rio's (who makes seio's) have had a horrible rep in the reef aquaria arena. they have a horrific habit of seizing up, burning up and releasing nasty toxins into the water killing everything in there (most reefers have several thousands of dollars worth of livestock). i have used seio's with extreme caution when they were first introduced...waiting at least a year of any potential problems. they have been reported to be very reliable with only a few reported cases of not starting up upon re-start. this is much better than freezing up and burning up in your tank!

i have read that the most common non-start ups are with the 620's and 1100's. i have/had a 620 and it was horrible at restart. the 820's and 1500's have been pure champs!

no question that tunze is king at gentle high flow pumps...but they are starting to get competition from icecap with their vortech (amazing) and polaris (even higher gentle flow).


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Thanks for the info Ben. I Think I'm going to invest ~40 for one of these!

Quick question, is the restart due to wave makers? or just from unplugging, and re-plugging in


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## bergzy (Jul 19, 2005)

my 620 was not on a wavemaker...it was a first generation (i think) and would need to hit/tap/smack it to get it going if the power stopped.

some people put seios on wavemakers and cross their fingers. but there is a seio wave controller out now though it is stupidly expensive ($200 or so...might as well get a tunze on a controller).

the 620 and 1100 were the ones with the most reported problems.

i would probably be more inclined to the 820 and dial it back a notch (via vents). you'll be skeptical that it pushes 820gph as you dont see a lot of movement as we are use to with normal laminar and jet flow associated with powerheads.

here is a great search for really good price comparison finding for stuff in general. marine depot is local to me and price matches everything i find on the web!!! 
seio 820 - Froogle

i have 5 maxijet powerheads on my 180g reef as well. i modified the output by cutting the spout/tip off to give a more dispersed flow. in addition, with the tip cut off (like a sawed off shotgun)...it gives two directions of output...sort of like 30 degrees from the previous output when turned off and on with a wavemaker. even with the tip cut off...the flow is still pretty jettish and laminar.

always more than glad to lend a hand!!!


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

jart said:


> I agree with DC. Looks good, *distrbd*.
> 
> Is that a solenoid in the picture?


Thanks jart,yes that is the solenoid that came with the regulator. I bought the regulator form Aquarium plants .com. a very reliable unit.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

bergzy said:


> another twist on co2 distribution could be...
> 
> split the co2 output like walter did and have each go to separate co2 reactors with their output on opposite sides of the tank.


I don't quite understand this statement. Is that not exactly what *tazcrash69 *did with his setup?

Thanks for the input, *bergzy*. I was thinking about this issue a bit more last evening. Perhaps the idea of using 2 reactors/ 2 cannisters is best. However, I was wondering if the following (one reactor) setup might work:

Cannister #1: output to CO2 reactor, _then_ split ("T"ed) to two outputs, each running to opposite sides (left and right) of the tank.

Cannister #2: no reactor; output to middle of the tank.

Thoughts?


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

distrbd said:


> Thanks jart,yes that is the solenoid that came with the regulator. I bought the regulator form Aquarium plants .com. a very reliable unit.


Thanks. Good to know that this setup can work with a solenoid (I would like my next tank to have a fully automatic system). I have been eyeing that regulator as well.


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

jart said:


> I don't quite understand this statement. Is that not exactly what *tazcrash69 *did with his setup?
> 
> Thanks for the input, *bergzy*. I was thinking about this issue a bit more last evening. Perhaps the idea of using 2 reactors/ 2 cannisters is best. However, I was wondering if the following (one reactor) setup might work:
> 
> ...


The problem with one co2 line split to two reactors is that co2 will find the easiest or less restrictive way out so let's say if one reactor is dirty ,then the co2 will most likely go only to the other (less clogged) reactor.
I could be wrong but in theory it would not work the same as 2 co2 lines going to 2 reactors.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

I am not suggesting one CO2 line split to two reactors.
I am suggesting one CO2 line feeding one reactor. The output line of the reactor could then be T'ed into two separate hoses, which would then feed separate spray bars at opposite sides of the tank. 
Any thoughts on this?


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

OK this how I simplify it so I can understand it better: let's say you have a very long rectangular hall and you want to cool it down .What would be more effective,one air conditioner with 3 or 4 ducts going all the way down to middle and the end of the room or two Ac's ,each dedicated to one half of the room,if one side gets a bit warmer you can turn it up a bit leaving the other one alone .
if you have 8 bubbles per second on the left side of your tank and 8 bps on the right, co2 distributes more efficiently than one reactor with 16 bps plus you would have a much better control this way.your reactor dissolves the co2 better with less bps.of course one can argue that with one efficient reactor you probably could achieve the same thing but in my humble opinion two separate reactors is the best way to go in a long and large tank.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

distrbd said:


> but in my humble opinion


Plus your experience.
I have not read anywhere that what I am proposing is superior to what you and others have said works well. Just want to explore/ discuss different options.

It looks like I will end up building 2 reactors after all.
It seems like most of the work involved in building a reactor is locating parts; thus not much more time necessary to build 2 as opposed to 1.
I am getting lots of ideas from Diablo Canine's sig as well.
Lots of future decisions to be made on this tank...:icon_roll 

Thanks for your input distrbd on this and my other thread.


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## bergzy (Jul 19, 2005)

jart said:


> I don't quite understand this statement. Is that not exactly what *tazcrash69 *did with his setup?
> 
> Thanks for the input, *bergzy*. I was thinking about this issue a bit more last evening. Perhaps the idea of using 2 reactors/ 2 cannisters is best. However, I was wondering if the following (one reactor) setup might work:
> 
> ...


i consider myself to be a somewhat seasoned reef aquarist and a very important conept in reef is flow...flow to evenly disperse nutrients (phytoplankton) and wash away respiration products.

having two canisters on opposite sides of the tank will give pretty decent coverage of mixing dissolved co2 but with plant growth obstructing flow, decorations, drunk cousin half fallen into tank...flow will not always be even.

my input was the addition of a a powerful gentle flow pump. the purpose of a gentle yet powerful flow circulation pump is to aid the thorough mixing and distribution of dissolved co2 or whatever it is you want.

a 6 foot long tank really isnt that long...in reality, i wouldnt even go through the trouble of having two canisters and two reactors. my set ups are thought out to be as simple as possible...for as i have found in life...making things complex is actually easier than having a 'simple plan'.

the set up i would do for a 6' tank?

Eheim Professionel 3 Canister Filter (2080) (450gph)
Eheim Professionel 3 Canister Filter (2080) - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store

an aquamedic 1000 co2 reactor
a reef fanatic pH controller and regulator
and...a seio 1500 (1500gph) or a tunze 6000 (1850 gph)with an electronic controller

the eheim would be going to the co2 reactor then onto a 6' spraybar that skips along the surface. the seio or tunze would be placed on one end of the tank and pointed directly to the opposite end. this will give me a 20 or so tank turnover per hour (assuming it is a 100g tank for easy math). this should be more than sufficient for the dissolved co2 to circulate throughout the aquarium.

just a little vinette (twig) of my personal experience.

i also love the idea of splitting the co2 reactor output!!!


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

OK, time for some exchange of ideas . 
IMHO, I like the 2 canister set-up for all the old redundancy reasons (Alternate cleanings, if 1 impellor goes your tank is not SOL)


bergzy said:


> the set up i would do for a 6' tank?
> 
> Eheim Professionel 3 Canister Filter (2080) (450gph)
> Eheim Professionel 3 Canister Filter (2080) - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store
> ...


I also think a reef tank is very different from a heavily planted tank. Now let me preface this by saying I've never taken a fluid Dynamics course in college. This is all based on my observation, and if a correction is needed, I'm listening. If we are going to use the hallway example again, a reef tank (assumming that even softies, and leathers are more solid than any plant leaves) would be like that hallway with solid obstructions that you need to Negotiate to make it to the other end. A planted tank (especially with some large leaf swords like I have) is more like having heavy bags or heavy vinyl sheets hung throughout the hallway. 

Also, I think you would need some creative plumbing so that you don’t kill the flow of the canister. 
The AM has ½” hose barbs, and while I can’t find the spec on the hose size for the pro 3, it has 2 in, and I bet 1 large out. 
It would probably benefit from a split on the output, 1 side to the AM 1000, and side 1 with a ball valve to help regulate flow though the reactor.

Although if I had to do a 6’ tank all over again, I might do a pre-dilled into a sump. That would help me remove all the equipment from in the tank. And if you set up your outlow like bergzy said (1 6’ spray bar) then you can get more circulation with a larger pump.

Just my .02


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## Aqua Dave (Feb 23, 2004)

I have 150 gal tank that is 6' long X 18" wide. It's a reef tank that has 2 overflows with 2 outlets. It's an All-glass 150 reef tank if you want to see what it looks like. I run a sump system with a pump to pump water out of the sump back into the tank. I use a T in the return line to split the water to the outlets on each side of the tank. I have an in-line homemade CO2 reactor plumbed into the return line AFTER the T so that CO2 is only coming out one return on one end of the tank. I did this so that water flow through the reactor was less. I have a digital Ph meter and Ph is consistent throughout the tank. What this tells me is that the CO2 is distributing evenly in the tank with my setup.

You should be fine if you only plumb your reactor into one side of the tank and only inject CO2 into that side.

David


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## bergzy (Jul 19, 2005)

i love the answers so far and make sense in each app. there are so many ways to achieve the same results...it is mind boggling!

i am a big flow believer because what increases efficiency of your central air conditioner? a few fans blowing! floor fans, ceiling fans etc to circulate the cooled air. it made a huge difference in my house when i put a couple of ceiling fans in the circulate the cool air. my office is about the same size as my house...it uses much more electricity (i am guestimating) for ac use as this is the biggest energy hog in my office.

flow is the same as having fans. doesnt have to be much but a little goes a long way in 'refreshing' areas with nutrients and washing metabolites away! everything just seems happier...even in my fw planted tank...when i just kicked up circulation a bit!


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