# Black hair Algae Victory!



## Rond

I also did the same! I upgraded my Black Beard Algae and other types of algae infested ten-gallon tank into 29-gallon tank. Before I used any of my equipment (the buckets, tools, etc.), I disinfect all of it with the bleach solution. This way I don't introduce the dreaded BBA to my new tank. I dipped my hardy plants like anubias and ferns in the bleach solution for two minutes and less time for sensitive plants like crypts and various stem plants. When I planted the old plants, the BBA that was clinging on the leaves of the plants was dead! Instead of having a black color, it is now opaque white. A sure sign that is dead. 

I also reused my fluorite substrate, however, I didn't soak in the bleach solution--instead, after cleaning it, I pour hot water in it to kill off any algae. It also killed the bacteria and therefore my tank has to cycle again, but it was worth it. This time, any plants I buy would be dip in bleach solution and fishes would be quarantine before introducing it to my new 29-gallon tank.


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## plantbrain

Neither of you won any battle, maybe a quick skimish.

You need to know why BBA gtropws, not try and precvent it from coming in unless you like sterile techinques for both fish, plants and seal the top from outside air and even then, the best aquarist will still get algae.

Using bleach is like getting a root canal rather than brushing your teeth.
Do you wait for the pain ans cavities or do you brush your teeth in preventative maintaince.

Bleach does not grow plants............
Adding enough CO2 does........

Good CO2 will forever rid you of needing to do dips etc for algae prevention, BBA and a 1/2 dozen other algal issue many folks have..........

And unlike bleach, this solves the long term issue and underlying problem and why you have BBA in the first place, it's niot because you did not sterilize your plants prior to adding them to the tank, that much I can promise you.

Grow the plants, then you no longer need to use bleach to kill algae.
The plant leaves after a bleach treatment are typically very ratty and longer contribute much to the plant's health, trimming them off is a better idea.

But that method works only if you know how to grow well to plants to begin with........

Which is the goal........not algae killing hobbies.........

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## andy1_52

I got the algae in the first place because I overdosed my phosphates all the way up to 5 ppm on accident when I only had a few plants. I Have my CO2 at about 30 ppm so I don't think that's the issue. I had this algae before I got the CO2 system in my aquarium in the first place too.

Also just a not the algae was hardly growing at all too and only on slow growth plants as well so I know that the conditions in my tank aren't very favorable for algae growth.


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## plantbrain

andy1_52 said:


> I got the algae in the first place because I overdosed my phosphates all the way up to 5 ppm on accident when I only had a few plants. I Have my CO2 at about 30 ppm so I don't think that's the issue. I had this algae before I got the CO2 system in my aquarium in the first place too.
> 
> Also just a not the algae was hardly growing at all too and only on slow growth plants as well so I know that the conditions in my tank aren't very favorable for algae growth.


Hehe, no.......... the PO4 had *nothing to do *with you getting any algae. We showed this over a decade ago with BBA and other species and many have since.........What's the differenc between 3ppm and 5 ppm as far as an alga is concerned? Nothing.

Folks commonly add 2-3ppm a week to their tanks.
Now why might they not have any BBA or other algae if adding high levels of PO4 cause algae(Any species you want to chose will work for this arguement)?

Where is my BBA?

I can tell you and will tell you again, it's your CO2.
That is the only thing(low or varying it a lot over each day cycle) that can induce BBA.

High levels of PO4 can cause KH/pH readings to be funny but they need to be quite high, 3-5ppm should not be an issue there.

You still have a CO2 issue if your algae is still growing.
Folks historically and every single person here will fall prey to this no less than a few times: people over estimate the CO2 they have in their tanks.

95-99% of all algae related issues are due to CO2.

You might really look at the CO2 very carefully and then cionsider watching the plant's responses and if you see any BBA, add more CO2, that will be more accurate as long as you do the adjustments slowly.

Algae are better "test kits" than anything you have at home to measure pH/KH.

You may want to read up on some various CO2 measurement methods and errors associated with it. Some folks according to the pH./KH charts supposedly have 100ppm or more of CO2, they have healthy fish as well. So something is not right.

Do not be complacement about CO2, even Amano and experts get nailed with CO2.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## andy1_52

Ok so I increased my KH by one degree with baking soda so now with my ph at when my ph is 6.9 my CO2 will be a bit higher now. I use an automated contoller to keep my gas level constant as well....


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## plantbrain

You do not get more CO2 by raising the KH/pH etc.

You get more CO2 by adding more CO2 gas into the tank.
KH is simply part of the way some folks measure the CO2 content.

Here's another method:

Sit a glass of tank water out in the open for 24 hours at least.
Measure the pH, now take this pH- 1.0pH units and that will give you 30ppm.

So if the ambient tank water is 7.0, you add enough CO2 to knock the pH down to 6.0 and keep it there while the lights are on.

That's it.

Does not matter what the KH is.............

A KH of 1 and a pH of 6.0 is 30ppm.
A KH of 10 and a pH of 7.0 is also 30ppm. 

Both examples have the same CO2 ppm.
Adding KH to either will not change the CO2 ppm, because why? Because you are not adding more/less CO2.

If you need more CO2, add more CO2 gas, it's deceptively simple.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## JenThePlantGeek

^ Tom, I've seen you say this a thousand times. Thanks for being patient with us all. It is so nice to see someone who is a guru and also willing to help - even if it means repeating yourself over and over.

BTW - I had BBA, raised my CO2, *was patient*, and it went away. Mr. Tom Barr knows what he's talking about!!!


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## andy1_52

I understand that raising KH doesn't magicaly add more CO2 gas to the water.

I raised the KH and the Ph rose with it. Then the injection system injects more CO2 to bring the Ph back down. Which in turn keeps me from having to keep my ph extremely low but still alows for a higher CO2 ppm count.

I'm getting my logic from this site here.


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## JenThePlantGeek

You're right. Good source too. 

Do you have a pH controller?


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## andy1_52

Yes I do I have the green one my Milawakee I think it's spelled.


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## JenThePlantGeek

I have that one too  

Increasing your kH and keeping pH constant will raise levels - OR even easier, just turn that little dial a bit until the pH kicks on. Keep doing this when you see it off for a few weeks (not too much in one day, but over the course of a month or so). Be patient, slowly increase the CO2, it WILL go away. 

I'd advocate just turning up your Milwalkee meter over trying to mess with your kH because you save yourself the headache of recalculating how much baking soda to add every time you do a water change. This way you can just change the water without even having to mess with it. Much simplier. I always say work WITH your water, not against it. Makes like so much easier!


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## andy1_52

I'll probably just do that but won't increasing my ph to the low 6 area be bad for fish and plants?


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## JenThePlantGeek

What is your kH? Is it really that low out of the tap? 

I've never delt with water that soft living in Indiana where we have liquid ROCK, but gut feeling tells me that dropping your pH some won't hurt... just do it slowly. Keep in mind the Milwaulkee pH probes are only accurate if you callibrate them correctly and often. I use mine just as a general gauge (low, middle, high) rather than expecting it to be 100% accurate. Use the ALGAE to determine CO2 levels (low, middle high) like Tom said and don't depend on the probe. If everything's growing well and you have no algae does it REALLY matter how many ppm kH your tank has?


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## andy1_52

my tap water ph is about 7.2 roughly. I was just worried that if I were to have an aquarium with a ph of 6.4, for example, that the low ph would be potentially stressful to fish and plants.


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## Sympley

I am also having problems with the dreded BBA, I had it for well over 2 months now, I would be cutting it out, and reducing my pH with CO2 injection, and I still can't shake it off. 1.5 weeks ago I did a major trimming, and put in more plants, it hasn't showed up unitl 2 days ago and it looks like it is back with a vengence, it is showing all over the tank. I hate that stuff. I should have went with a salt water fish only tank, but all the guys at the store said go with planted it is much easier.....right.
In any case anything else I could try? Should I increase my lighting? Decrese my lighting? Should I try injecting more CO2? Add more ferts, less ferts? I have tried pretty much everything on this site.

I guess a question for Tom, would be how ow can I go with CO2 injection. My tap water has a pH of 7.5, my tank with the CO2 injection is at 6.4 to 6.6. Is it safe to go lower, I am afraid to crush the system and then everything will go nuts. My KH is at 8 degrees, and GH is at 12 degrees. Temperature is around 82F +/- 2. I am dosing ferts from gregwotson, and I follow a pretty strict regiment. The only ferts that I skip sometimes are Nitrates, and Phosphates the reson for that is that I do daily tests for the levels on these and if they show high (ball figure of course) I skip, if these start to go low I add.
Please anyone and other suggestions on what to do?


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## JenThePlantGeek

Sympley - hang in there and be patient. Keep dosing your ferts, doing your water changes, etc. Just focus on getting the plants happy and it will eventually even out. 

You may also try dosing Seachem Flourish Excel. You can get a 4L jug from Big Al's online and it will last you quite awhile. That stuff has done wonders when I needed a bit of a CO2 boost and didn't have a full canister. 

You can turn your injected CO2 up, just do it *slowly* and watch your fish carefully. Find the point where they start hanging out near the surface and then turn it down slightly from there until they act normal again. In these cases if the fish are happy and acting fine, then the water is fine! Numbers don't matter so much. Do this, then prune, fertilize, do water changes, and take it easy for about a MONTH before you change anything else - give it time to work. I'm sure you'll see a big difference.


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## Sympley

Thank you for the advice. I still have some excel left over so I will start dosing the amounts recommended on the label. When my pH is at 6.4 it the fish seem to still be doing OK. I will pump in more CO2 to bring it even move down and see what happens. I hope that the system will not crush.


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## Hoppy

Low pH as a result of adding CO2 does not adversely affect the fish. Too much CO2 will make it very difficult for the fish to exhale their blood CO2, so they start to suffocate, but this isn't due to the pH, only to the concentration of CO2 in the water. Fish, like us, get rid of CO2 by having their exhaled CO2 be at a higher concentration than is present in the water (air). So, obviously, there is some concentration that the fish's gills can't overcome.

This is not universally believed "dogma", but a "automatic CO2" system isn't an automatic CO2 system. It is simply a means of controlling to a specific pH. If the KH varies, the ppm of CO2 in the water will vary too, as the pH controller holds the pH nearly constant. If there is electrical interferrence, the pH controller controls to the wrong pH. If the KH is from other than carbonates, the amount of CO2 in the water doesn't follow the pH/KH charts. So, the best conclusion you can draw from that is not to depend on a controller to control ppm CO2, and not to depend on the pH/KH chart to calculate how much CO2 you have. Those are just very crude estimates, almost always reading much too high. You need to slowly, slowly and with lots of observation of the fish, jack up the bubble rate, a little every day or even every few days, until you can maintain the tank free of new BBA growths, and until the fish start to show signs of distress. (Then drop it back down a bit, very quickly.)


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## plantbrain

The "better" growers, those with green thumbs, tend to _look more _and _measure less_.

This is especially true for CO2.
Fine adjustments and tweaking it is the best approach.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Sympley

I thank everyone for all the advice. I got it down to 6.4 and still it does not look like the fish are gettin gtoo stressed. At least not that I can tell. There is no fish suffocating at the top of the aquarium, none seem to act crazy, they just seem to be doing their thing. Scary stuff, I can't believe I have my water down from 7.5 to 6.4. Any other visual indicators I should be looking for in the fish behaviour? They are still eating like pigs I think that is still a good sign?


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## Rhinoman

Rather than start my own thread this seems like a good place to jump in. I leave my CO2 "on" through the night. I have a Milwalkee controller, I had it set at 6.8 and have lowered it to about 6.6. My reasoning for leaving the CO2 on through the night is the PH swings my tank would suffer if I turned the CO2 off at night. My PH without CO2 is 7.5. Wierd though because it comes out of the tap at 7.0. My water also comes out of the tap with no hardness, I add R/O to bring the KH up to about 4-5. Is the R/O right bringing up my PH? Should I just just use baking soda to bring my KH up and magnesium to bring up the GH?


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## andy1_52

I leave my controller on 24/7 too. I find that during the night when the plants start to use oxygen and emit CO2 that my controller doesn't turn on hardly ever at all except for the weeeeeeee hours of the morning usually about a few hours before the lights snap on. If you have enough plants in your aquarium then they well make a decent amount of gas during the night. Another factor you have to take into account is your water surface agitation. If it's too high you'll just be losing gas but too low and you'll suffocate your fish. I'd keep your agitation as low as possible so that way you don't loose as much CO2 and then you should be fine to leave it on over night. Also another thing you can do is lower the temp in your aquarium because more oxygen can disolve in water at lower temperatures. I have my ph set at 6.5 and my bubble count is about 180 bps and I have a 20 lb. bottle of CO2 and the psi was just over 900 when I got it now it's right at 900 four months later.


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