# 5.5 ''Black Cherry Project'' UPDATE 4/7



## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

Ive decided to setup yet another tank:bounce:. This time i am going to be working with my black cherry shrimp to see if i can get them pure. I started with these as ''blue/ brown'' cherries about 2 years ago. Since then ive been culling out the brow, red, and light blue ones. after 2 years i'm finally gatting a black or dark blue shrimp w/ yellow eyes. very cool!!!! Here are the tank specs:

Tank- 5.5 AGA
Light-65w CFL
Heater- Stealth 50w set for 76
Substrate- Fluval Stratum
Filter- Red Sea Deco Art Nano HOB
CO2- DIY yeast 
-2L bottle
-bubble counter
-nano diffuser
*Plants:*
-Rotala H'ra
-Rotala wallichii
-Rotala ''Butterfly
-Rotala sp. Mini Type 1
-Rotala sp. Mini Type 2
-Rotala sp. 'Vietnam'
-Limnophila sp. 'Guinea Broad-Leaf'
-Liliopsis sp. mini
-UG
-HC
-Vesicularia sp.
-Hydrothrix gardneri 
-Ludwigia senegalensis
-Pogostemon helferi


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

heres a pic:


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

I like that wood stump! I'm setting up a 5.5 gallon myself for CBS/CRS. How do you like the fluval stratum vs. aquasoil or other plant soils? Also, could you tell me your mixture for your CO2? I cant figure out how much sugar and yeast I want to use so I dont have too much CO2 in the water. No idea how I'm going to figure out my ferts. Guess I'll do half of what I do for my 15 gallon? Lol. This looks good so far!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

I use 1 cup of sugar, 1 tsp yeast, and 1/4 tsp baking soda. works well. i can adjust the bubble count tho because i added a bubble counter so its awesome!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

the fluval substrate imo is awesome! Ive never used any other aqua soils. ive always just used either sand of flourite. the only negetive about it is that its SUPER light weight.


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

I think i found the light i wanna get! I would hag it maybe 20'' above the tank. heres the link: CFL Fixture.


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

matt12 said:


> I use 1 cup of sugar, 1 tsp yeast, and 1/4 tsp baking soda. works well. i can adjust the bubble count tho because i added a bubble counter so its awesome!


Awesome, thanks!

I bet you could find a cheaper light for the 5 gallon. My T5HO light for my 15 gallon was less than that one. If that is the one you have your eye on, though, go for it


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## kharma (Sep 20, 2010)

matt12 said:


> I think i found the light i wanna get! I would hag it maybe 20'' above the tank. heres the link: CFL Fixture.


You could go with a T-5NO light for cheaper than that.. Just a tip


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

some crapy cell phone updates!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

more.....


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## Zareth (Dec 13, 2010)

Hey you have 3 of those reptile light fixtures above the tank?
What wattage bulbs are in them?
I use just one 27 watt one in the same type of fixture over my 5.5 right now







and it is more than enough light
I think you're going to get algae with that much light. Unless your looking for really fast results but High light is more of a pain than its worth IMO, your plants will grow fast but who wants to dose enough to keep up with that?


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

garden of eden tank needs a tree with moss IMO...


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

i couldnt think of what else to call it. there are 3 13w 6700k bulbs there. thats 39ws of light. not enough imo. im going to be getting a 65w cfl fixture next week. theres a lot of co2 being injcted as well. i can deal w/ the algae


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## Zareth (Dec 13, 2010)

High light disease.








What's your dosing schedule / how do you dose?
Ignore WPG and think about par for a minute.. I have no idea how high your PAR would be with 3 bulbs over your tank but I'm wondering why you'd want your light that high?
Why would you want to use so much co2?
Are you trying to rush the grow in process for an Aquascaping competition or something?
Its one thing if you love dosing frequently and love trimming and tank maintenance, but you can get more sustainable and equally attractive growth at lower light levels.


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

found a light! ive heard mixed reviews but for 35 shipped i can pass it up. http://www.aquatraders.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=51106&CartID=1


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

Got in my Up-Aqua nano diffuser today!!! it awesome and actualy works realy well with the diy co2


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

herers a shot in action!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

finally got and mounted my permanent light for the tank!!!!! Its a 65w 6700k CFL bulb. the fixture is actually made by Brinks security. works great!


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

Wow that is a lot of light. I hope your plants dont fry! The shrimp will definitely need sunglasses. Good luck!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

can we say future algae farm!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

problemman said:


> can we say future algae farm!


 no no no....very little algae so far. just green spot on the glass. the tank is VERY heavily planted now.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

okay i will take your word for it!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

so i planned on keeping this tank scaped...FAIL. it has fallen victim to my collectoritus!!! pics tonight


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

lol...


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

matt12 said:


> Light-65w CFL


WTF?!?!?!? Lol



Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

JamesHockey said:


> WTF?!?!?!? Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


 not enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!:icon_conf


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

update photos!!!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

and some more.........


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)




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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

here are some updated pics!!! i included a pic of one of my black cherry females:biggrin:


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Wow I'm really liking that black look, kinda want some lol ^^

Have you gotten them to breed true yet? Or just getting to it? Either way, keep it up!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

HolyAngel said:


> Wow I'm really liking that black look, kinda want some lol ^^
> 
> Have you gotten them to breed true yet? Or just getting to it? Either way, keep it up!


 im working on it. so far id say there throing out 60% true. i keep culling the non black ones. so one day:biggrin:


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

matt12 said:


> here are some updated pics!!! i included a pic of one of my black cherry females:biggrin:


Ok, that black cherry thing is cool.


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

I dont know how I missed the black cherry the first time I posted. Very cool!


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

thats awesome man! i have a few semi purple to semi dark ones myself. maybe i should be doing this too....


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

ren said:


> thats awesome man! i have a few semi purple to semi dark ones myself. maybe i should be doing this too....


If you were both doing it, then you could swap shrimp to increase the gentic diversity. Seems like it would be a win/win.


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

Betta Maniac said:


> If you were both doing it, then you could swap shrimp to increase the gentic diversity. Seems like it would be a win/win.


I could I just need another tank to breed more dark colored ones.

Matt, hows the stratum? Did you cycle yours for a while before adding shrimp? Im thinking about changing the eco-complete that I have in my tank.


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

ren said:


> I could I just need another tank to breed more dark colored ones.
> 
> Matt, hows the stratum? Did you cycle yours for a while before adding shrimp? Im thinking about changing the eco-complete that I have in my tank.


 i had the tank run for about 2 weeks fully planted but no live stock. the shrimp always seem to be ''eating'' it lol. the plants LOVE this stuff as well. very nice roots on all the plants. highly recomended. just dont disturb it very often at all. also, dont rinse it at first. just fill your tank VERY slowly and it will be really clear from the start. i filled my tank using airline tubing and started a syphon from a 5g buck above the tank


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## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

just found this thread.... awesome shrimpies!!! who would have thought red cherries could make black cherries!!!! 

love it!

Amy


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

i really like the look. You know there would be some shady people out there that if they reached the amount of black on their rcs that you have they would try to sell them off as BKK's. some people would buy them as such. 

I would be interested in some if you ever get them to breed truer.


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## koldsoup (Feb 21, 2011)

+1 what everyone said. Those black cherries look amazing. Nice setup too. I didn't know that cherries could live in a tank with CO2.


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

koldsoup said:


> +1 what everyone said. Those black cherries look amazing. Nice setup too. I didn't know that cherries could live in a tank with CO2.


 ive got lots ofco2 running in there!!!


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## Blice (Mar 7, 2011)

Awesome shrimp! Let me know when you start selling them :thumbsup:


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

k ill start selling them in about 3-4 monthes when i get them breeding true!!!


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

PM'd you about the shrimp but i see your comment about selling now


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

How much will you be looking to sell them for?


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

problemman said:


> How much will you be looking to sell them for?


 that is a damn good question lol. make an offer


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

matt12 said:


> k ill start selling them in about 3-4 monthes when i get them breeding true!!!


I am so in.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Pmed yah matt


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## sjuapseorn (Feb 17, 2011)

Count me as a future buyer also!

By that time this tank will be totally cycled and It'll be ready to Rock n Roll!!

*subbed*


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

any updates?


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

all is going well. ive got 2 berried females so we'll see how true there are!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Can't wait!


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm with problemman, I'd definitely want to give these a try once colony has established.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Hmm, just wondering,

any chance these are caridina babaulti? 

Either way the look so cool!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

No senior,
he has been line breeding them to get this


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

problemman said:


> No senior,
> he has been line breeding them to get this


 yup yup!!! these are Neocaridina heteropoda


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

i caught 8 blacks and moved them to there own 10g tank full of moss. it was getting to hard to catch them in the 5.5 jungle lol


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## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

im excited. must post pictures!!!

Amy


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

Pics?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

Start the waiting list for the shrimp yet? LOL


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

ill get pics up in a minute. i did a big trim so its not as lush, but still nice!!. the E. belem is starting to fill in nicely to!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

pics as promised! The first pic is the new 10g ''black '' cherry breeding tank. i managed to get 1 pic of the elusive female ''black'' cherry in her new breeding tanklol


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

opps...forgot the black cherry pic lol


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

Omg! that's a black shrimp if I ever saw one! I'm willing to pay 4 bucks each AT LEAST, now hurry with the breeding, and move them to a 20 long so you can have a larger population. What are you naming them? Since you founded this color variation. Also how did you start selective breeding?


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

idk lol. ''black cherry''. I had gotten some wild cherries a while ago that began giving me darker and darker shrimp. eventually i ended up with this. i just keep culling of any that arent black. by culling i mean throwing into my 40g lol. The female in the pic is berried so we'll se in about 3 weeks when they hatch!:bounce:


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

looks like you've got quite a following :thumbsup: the 10gal looks great reminds me of the skull island in king kong sigh...i need to get another tank my blood red cherry mothers are getting dark red with dark purple spots one them i have a long way to go


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

ren said:


> looks like you've got quite a following :thumbsup: the 10gal looks great reminds me of the skull island in king kong sigh...i need to get another tank my blood red cherry mothers are getting dark red with dark purple spots one them i have a long way to go


 get them going!!! we can trade lol


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Matt when is your shipments at your store?


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

problemman said:


> Matt when is your shipments at your store?


 plant shipment? we grow our own plants. we rarely order in plants. fish shipments? every wednesday. however we qt our livesock for 1 week before they go out for sale


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## Blice (Mar 7, 2011)

That shrimp is so sweet.. great job man.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

matt12 said:


> plant shipment? we grow our own plants. we rarely order in plants. fish shipments? every wednesday. however we qt our livesock for 1 week before they go out for sale


Sweet!


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

So will these be as hardy as RCS? I always have been told that the reason that CRS and other selectively bred shrimp are so sensitive to conditions/temperature/everything under the sun is because they have been so inbred with each other. But will these? Any idea? How do they look compared to say... BKK?! Are they that black or are they more of a purply color like all the darker ones I've ever seen? THIS IS SOOOOO COOL!


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## zerojoe0917 (Apr 29, 2009)

who im digging the black cherries! they look cool!


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Woah I hope these breed true, very cool and very catchy name 

I can't believe I thought these were babaulti. Maybe I meant to post it on another thread, lol. It doesn't seem like me...


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> So will these be as hardy as RCS? I always have been told that the reason that CRS and other selectively bred shrimp are so sensitive to conditions/temperature/everything under the sun is because they have been so inbred with each other. But will these? Any idea? How do they look compared to say... BKK?! Are they that black or are they more of a purply color like all the darker ones I've ever seen? THIS IS SOOOOO COOL!


 Not as black as the BKK but close. they are very hardy right now. there used to CO2, ferts, high temps.....I moved them to there own 10g breeding setup with a ph of 7.2 and temp of 74


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Woah I hope these breed true, very cool and very catchy name
> 
> I can't believe I thought these were babaulti. Maybe I meant to post it on another thread, lol. It doesn't seem like me...


 haha NO BABAULTI!!!!!!!!!


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## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Very nice looking shrimp.
I would order some but unfortunately I live in Europe.

Can't wait to see more pics


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Any news matt?


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

problemman said:


> Any news matt?


 actually yes!!! the black female had finally released fry last night!!!!!! so far they're a grey color but we'll see as they mature. i would get pics but the only camera i own is my droid


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Sweet I'm coming to your store so I hope to see one as reference!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

problemman said:


> Sweet I'm coming to your store so I hope to see one as reference!


 today? we're closed


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

No! Wednesday...super pumped


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

That's awesome! This is why I love freshwater dwarf shrimp! This is a very neat project, and I'm glad to see you're suceeding so far How many of your shrimp are currently like this:

 

Oh, and do you have any pics of the blue ones you previously had? I've never seen a blue cherry.


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

hmmm il have to see. right now i ve got 6 females like that. the males arent as solid


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

Great! Usually in other pics, black cheries aren't really solid black, but rather dark purple or brown.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

Love the shrimp. Get them dark enough and I'm sure you can sell them to some insane whackadoo, er, I mean shrimp enthusiast, for a pretty penny. As it is, I'd certainly take a look if you start selling.



ren said:


> thats awesome man! i have a few semi purple to semi dark ones myself. maybe i should be doing this too....





Betta Maniac said:


> If you were both doing it, then you could swap shrimp to increase the gentic diversity. Seems like it would be a win/win.


The downside of this is that ren's dark shrimp could very well be dark for entirely different genetic reasons than matt12's. Breed them and you could wind up with more or less regular RCS again. It would definitely be worth trying though, if both managed to breed a line of shrimp that were very dark, and if the offspring were dark they'd be healthier for the diversity as you suggest. :smile:


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

jasonpatterson said:


> Love the shrimp. Get them dark enough and I'm sure you can sell them to some insane whackadoo, er, I mean shrimp enthusiast, for a pretty penny. As it is, I'd certainly take a look if you start selling.
> 
> The downside of this is that ren's dark shrimp could very well be dark for entirely different genetic reasons than matt12's. Breed them and you could wind up with more or less regular RCS again. It would definitely be worth trying though, if both managed to breed a line of shrimp that were very dark, and if the offspring were dark they'd be healthier for the diversity as you suggest. :smile:


that could def be a possiblity. a lot has happened since the last post some of my shrimp started dropping like flies so i lost a few of my mothers :thumbsdow so now im in the process of redoing the tank and buying more cherries. so here i go again breeding and culling ... wish me luck. matt what generation are you at with these guys?


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

hey hows are the little mutants coming along?


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

the babies are still growing. so far there all a gray color. no reds!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

crappy updated pics. i need to redo the plant/ livestock list.


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

some more.......


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## jeffvmd (Apr 16, 2010)

Are the offspring coming out as red?


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## ponderingky (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm new to the forum - just read this entire thread! This is fascinating - great work and love the tanks and the black cherry shrimps!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

jeffvmd said:


> Are the offspring coming out as red?


no, i have moved the black cherries to a different tank. these are regular cherries. i need to change the title or something lol


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

ponderingky said:


> I'm new to the forum - just read this entire thread! This is fascinating - great work and love the tanks and the black cherry shrimps!


thanks:hihi:


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## asimkhatri (Sep 17, 2007)

Black Cherries are cute


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## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

we need updates!  with pics!!!

Amy


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## Dgup (Jul 5, 2011)

Update?!


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## meppitech (Apr 29, 2011)

I 2nd that update request!


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## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

yep!!!


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

well, I hate to disapoint everyone but....while i was away in Texas for 2 monthes the tank kinda died. the shrimp are now living in my 40g.


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