# What exactly is wrong with Miracle Gro?



## m8e (Oct 16, 2009)

Can't put that aside, there is a lot P in that. The _ammoniacal nitrogen_ and _urea_ will/can release ammonia into the water, so you should limit the size of the doses. Do a bunch of small ones instead one big dose.

And i think there is some micros missing. or maybe it's just Mg.


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

Well the city claims the tap is at 270mg/l gh, but it usually tests higher... lord really knows the mineral content, they fiddle with it...

If I mixed some MiracleGro 20-20-20 up in some Nebraska topsoil fertcicles, with some added trace, would I be asking for trouble? Should I just try to work out a regular light dosing regimen and watch for signs of deficiency? 

Also, how exactly can the ammonia from ammonium be released? Same with urea? I know it can be dangerous at high levels, but it is present in lots of pond and aquarium fertilizer tablets.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

it contain too much phosphate, ammonium or urea might not cause any problem unless dosed in high amounts. if you have high Ph 7> then you are asking for trouble with ammonium/Urea turning into ammonia, it will kill plants and fish.


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

the ph is always high, buffered by the city.. and dont mistake that i want to use this as a primary fertilizer for occupied tanks, but its seeming to provide accelerated growth vs osmocote in & outdoor and topsoil alone. I have some plants thriving, all locally gathered, arrowhead sag and the stem plants are putting out lots of runners and side shoots. Native anarchis and duckweed dont seem to care either way... I had a small tree for a while in standing water, overtrimmed the roots during a replant and she died.. green algae on the glass walls of the tank, but not really anything on the plants but hard water/alkaline spots from growth and evaporation... I know that lilaeopsis plants are distantly related to carrots, and bacopa to peas. Could they be implemented as a nutrient vacuum? Or are there and fruiting plants that we could use?


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

Well.. i have been using a diluted dose here and there on two tanks. So far so good. Stem plants look happier, brighter colors. Had to yank a water sprite from a ten gallon tank. It blocked out too much light. No algae out of the ordinary. A little less in the ten gallon than normal, although the oto's could just be hungrier than normal, the tank's a bit warm.


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## m8e (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm currently _experimenting_ with a 15-3-13+micro slow release fert, a 8-3-5+micro liquid fert and a K+micro fert. With the first two i can get a NO3O4-ratio anywhere between 8.8:1 and 16.5:1. Aquatic plants use around 10 times more N then P(= 14.4:1 for NO3/PO4). This is also a good ratio to have in the water.

It's numbers like these you should look for if you want it to _balance out_.


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## Calmia22 (Aug 20, 2011)

Don't use those test strips. Buy a liquid test kit. The test strips will tell me all day long that my ammonia levels are toxic for my fish when I know my tank is cycled, well filtered, and heavily understocked. They aren't worthwhile, and you end up spending more money in the long run.


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

Calmia22 said:


> Don't use those test strips. Buy a liquid test kit. The test strips will tell me all day long that my ammonia levels are toxic for my fish when I know my tank is cycled, well filtered, and heavily understocked. They aren't worthwhile, and you end up spending more money in the long run.


Ammo test strips are worthless, I agree. However, an API master freshwater kit is $40 at the lfs, forget that. The strips were on hand. The ph and nitrite/ate reading are within tolerance for my needs.

Also, I have a court date soon, so my usual bulk order of supplies(metricide, prime, etc..) from Amazon has been post-poned.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Using Miracle Gro*

Hello steve...

Other than the stuff is messy to use, it's great stuff for your aquatic plants. I use it in my potted tanks and it nourishes my plants for several months. (See attached pic). I don't advise using it in large amounts as a substrate, because of the mess. I suppose it would work in a very small tank to keep plants, but not good for larger tanks.

B


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

BBradbury said:


> Hello steve...
> 
> Other than the stuff is messy to use, it's great stuff for your aquatic plants. I use it in my potted tanks and it nourishes my plants for several months. (See attached pic). I don't advise using it in large amounts as a substrate, because of the mess. I suppose it would work in a very small tank to keep plants, but not good for larger tanks.
> 
> B


READING 1st HELPS!
This thread is about liquid and granulated plant foods!

While I don't prefer any number of tanking methods that's my opinion and for the most part I keep that to myself. (hint)

To the advice regarding soil usage.
MGOCPM and any number of other soil mixes are used by more than a few members without any drama and to much better results than you achieved based on the repeated comments made. As I've posted before this system is now over 3yrs old without change, without dosing, the foot print is 55g.
Potting soil, Flourite, 4xT8 and a sponge equipped power head.










Growing a tad testy reading your posts about how this 'method' doesn't work, creates a mess, doesn't last, won't grow plants yada yada. 
I alone have >10 systems active using soil enriched substrates.

Maybe if you did more water changes that would help.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

once again bbradbury dosnt know what he's talking about. 

MGOC and a large-ish tank (125g)




















the key to avoiding mess is setting it up correctly and having patience while uprooting.

The MGOC began to loose its momentum around a year, but is constantly being replenished by fish waste and would still support root feeders no problem.


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

wkndracer said:


> READING 1st HELPS!
> This thread is about liquid and granulated plant foods!
> 
> While I don't prefer any number of tanking methods that's my opinion and for the most part I keep that to myself. (hint)
> ...


Nice angles


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

Silly gooses. I was talking about the blue crystal fert, not potting soil. 

I live in the grain belt... Awesome topsoil here, plus its free...


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

only one goose


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

steven p said:


> Ammo test strips are worthless, I agree. However, an API master freshwater kit is $40 at the lfs, forget that.


 
THEN you will never get accurate reading period. So whats the point?


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

Yeah, but why not a gaggle?

On another note, I'm looking for another more balanced, complete solube fert...


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

JasonG75 said:


> THEN you will never get accurate reading period. So whats the point?


Point is, had court today. Have a couple hundred bucks left over and get paid on friday... Can you wait a few days? I can.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

But then the question wasn't really about all the side issues was it? Back to the originial question of what is wrong with Miraclegrow?

There seems to be some hint of it giving too much ammonia. Isn't that going to be something for you to watch and see what happens if you have been using it and find it okay? Since nobody else has your tank, it seems to be a good policy to try things gently at first and watch carefully if you can't get a rational answer without all the blather.


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

Yeah, at this point, after seeing compositions of pond and aquarium ferts; its more a question of when and how much vs what brand exactly... 

I still dont understand how ammonium unbinds...


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

JasonG75 said:


> THEN you will never get accurate reading period. So whats the point?


the sad truth is that i got a compromised test kit. 
APi + Amazon are failing me.. 

APi called me back after a couple days, basically to call me ignorant and say that i didn't follow their directions. Until, i made the very angry point that there is no anti-leak system on any of the 7 bottles in the box and that there was blue liquid all over the inside of the box when i received it. The man on the other end, who never gave me his name, got quiet quick.

I had already contacted Amazon and they're sending me a replacement.


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