# Planted Over Tank Sump/Riparium/Filter/Planter Build/25g tank journal



## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

I think you're set up for success. I like how you did your plumbing. It is barely visible from the front. I would definitely paint the plywood, both for looks but more importantly, water protection.

Considering you're only growing plants in the plants (and not using it as a filter), I don't think you need to worry too much about containing the grow media. Just make sure the inlet and outlet have a guard around them inside the planter box. The reason I have them in mine is so I could, in theory, lift out the baskets to get to the filter media. In practice, I haven't done that in months.

_fittonia albevenis_ has been my favorite low grower.

The Croton may do well. I have one that sits next to my box (although a different variety) and it does not like to go dry. If it doesn't like being permanently wet, one thing you could do is "plant it high" so that the bulk of its roots and not covered in water but it can reach to the water. This is the benefit of having the full planter box height to work with.

You'll be amazed at just how much space these plants can take up once they start growing. I think a "carpet" will be tough as the larger plants will quickly shade the bottom. Just give it time. At this point, you can only see my box after a trim.

You're welcome for the help, but don't take everything I say as gospel, I'm just another in the club with success. Best of luck to you!


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

I realized I had some old aquarium pebbles that I am NEVER going to use (prefer sand, gravel or dirt) so I added one of my plants to the planter.

The pot is a cottage cheese container with some slots cut in it to allow water to flow through, but contain the peddles. Like a big aquarium plant pot. I've had good luck starting seedlings in these before and I have a stack of them around the house.









The plant in the pot, I took all the dirt off the roots first, there is about an inch and a half or so between the root crown and the top of the water in the trough


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Work thawed out enough for me to get some river stone (in this case 1 inch minus ) was hoping for something a little smaller, but they didn't have any pea stone in the bins, and I was concerned the crushed stone would cut the plant roots. Oh well.

So I got it planted the rest of the way 









Please ignore the dusty look to the tank... I thought i rinsed the stone well, BUT turns out there was still a little stone dust left, it's slowly settling out.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

NEW LIGHT!










It's a accent light from walmart, that has a slot in the base to make it wall mountable. I kicked around all sorts ideas for lighting from bending conduit and attaching it to the stand, to hanging clip lights from a window curtain rod, and this is what seemed simplest/cheapest for a temporary install (living in an apartment, so track lighting on the ceiling wasn't really an option). The framed picture in some preceding photos has been moved to another wall.

Also yes I know it's not all centered, but viewing it from the room it's not noticeable; and due to the way the planter had to fit on the tank, nothing was centered to begin with.

Also here is a pic of my new (I think female) German Blue Ram, recently removed from quarantine and added to the tank.







Not the best of pictures, she's kind of skittish still, but I love the way it looks like its a large mouth bass with the lateral line.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Just a brief update no pictures this time...

I added some plastic mesh around the overflow, this should keep any leaves/debris that falls off the plants from clogging the drain. I did this isinstead of a second drain due to lack of space mainly, still might change my mind once it grows in some.

I also am seeing new leaf growth, just a little bit atm, but everything but the draceana has something so im taking that as a sign things are adapting.

Lastly ive taken to sprinkling my flake food into the box, based on how it drains it disperses the food better in the water column, and my fish seem much more active during feeding, and none seem to struggle to get their fill, so this is an improvement.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

Looking good! The new light looks ideal to me.

Subscribed.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

I think it's about time for an update. Photos first and then some text later!

The planter box:









FTS Shot:









Isometric view:









Now for the update part;
*Plant Growth:*
I've so far had 2 new leaves on my pythos, a couple of shoots and flowers on the peace lily (it's kind of hard to tell since it was already fairly large when I obtained it). I've also had some minor growth on the other plants, though nothing really worth getting excited about just yet. I did however lift all the planters out a few days ago to check on root growth and all of them (esp the pythos) had evidence of roots that were beginning to the individual planters (in the case of the pythos it was a good 6 inches long)

*NEW Plants:*
I also added some additional plants (my g/f wanted a window box SO i stole some cuttings when I was setting that up) I ended up adding maranta "red" _maranta leuconeura_ which has a new leaf developiong, as well as some Tradescantla "Red Hill" _tradescantla zebrina_ which also seems to be adjusting quite nicely. I also added some four leaf clover _marisella quadrifolia_ that I had left over from planting in the tank. I'm not really a fan of how it looks in the tank, but I hope it'll fill in along the box nicely and it seems to be adjusting well also. Lastly I tried adding some cuttings of "golden moss" in both the planter box and a dirt planter I have around the house, and it all died despite regular daily misting/watering, which is kind of a bummer.

The four leaf clover:









*Equipment Changes:*
The plywood support under the planter box has yet to be painted, and I think in the long term I'm going to leave it that way, It's really not noticeable at all unless you are standing right over the tank (the light obscures it from the front). It also seems to be holding up much better while damp than i would've expected cheap 3 ply plywood to; when it needs replacing I think a piece of 1x6 pine would be better.
I was concerned that the light added over the box would encourage algae growth in the planter, and so far that doesn't seem to be happening (which may be because I have a bit of a hair algae problem still going in the tank some day I'll win).
I've had some issues with my pump losing pressure after a week or so of being in use. I _THINK_ the issue is with the tubing I'm using to bridge between pump and PVC bending and losing it's tight seal. I readjusted the way the pump sits and I think I've solved that issue. If no a zip tie will probably suffice; but for now It's working. The main issue is the mattenfilter was originally intended to be used with an airlift pump and there just isn't a lot of space behind the foam for a pump. Next time around, either more space, an external pump like a maxijet, or no mattenfilter with a pump and prefilter in the tank.

*Future Plans:*
Let things continue to grow. I might try adding a colony of cherry shrimp into the planter (there are already shrimp in the tank) with the intent that they have a bit more secluded/protected place to breed. Though I'm not sure how i'd go about keeping them there; I've also found one already in there that made it up the overflow before perishing for reasons unknown hence where the idea came from).
I may also find some more plants to add since the draceana and croton haven't really done much growing. Might try some creeping jenny or wandering jew if I can find them, or some anbias; not really sure yet, just thinking about the options atm.
I may also completely re do the interior of the tank; in the past year and a half or so it's never really looked the way i want it to; and the current algae issues aren't helping me like it anymore  If i should rescape I'm definitely going to keep the planter box on top though; that fit's my vision for the tank rather well.

Lastly extra pictures I thought were cool; excuse some of the blurriness my phone is a better phone than camera.

water cascading from the spray bar during a water change









Mini water fall from the end of the overflow. During a water change But I could see it being cool as a feature in a different tank with room for it to splash around.









Lastly my hygro putting out emersed leaves


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Looking great! What a neat project, wish you started this a few years back when I had a glass tank I wanted to grow plants on top of. I just couldn't keep the watering up so the planter box behind was a fail.

What about getting some creeping jenny [Lysimachia nummularia] as a vining/ground cover plant? It is a very nice aquatic plant as well. 

Go look at a real nursery for small terrarium plants, mine had rabbit's foot and kangaroo paw ferns and variegated creeping fig which were plants on my shopping list where HD only had larger potted plants.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Just a brief update, I experienced a bit of a mishap with the tank. My light on the wall, mysteriously and all by itself fell off the wall. Fortunately it didn't fall in the tank, and I was home when it fell; however it did pull the screw completely out of the wall. I'm amazed this happened since I had an almost identical light on my wall as a kid and I abused the crap out of it and never had any issues. Either way it is now remounted with a different screw and is once again stable.

I also modded my finnex planted+ to include a dimmer, no pictures of it yet, however it was fairly easy. I spliced one of these into the power cord and soldered it to the circuit board inside the fixture. It gives me a good range of dimming, and hopefully being able to dial back the light intensity and get rid of some of the algae.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Pictures!

New phone, new camera, new pictures...

The box (with some new planting)









The tank (post dimmer install) I like it not quite so bright









GBR in all her? glory, definitely colored up more than before, also ignore the glass i leave some scum for the otos.









An update on the planting, I removed the croton and marisella n favor of adding African violet some fitonia (red and white verigated) and a much bigger clump of golden moss hopefully this time it survives. The croton was just too slow growing and looked to scraggly. I'm liking the look significantly more already (esp with the violets in bloom)


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## rebelbuck1993 (Sep 3, 2014)

what light do you have on top of your tank? ray2? how tall is the tank? looks like you get pretty good light spread and depth


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

rebelbuck1993 said:


> what light do you have on top of your tank? ray2? how tall is the tank? looks like you get pretty good light spread and depth


It's a standard 25g tank, so 24 wide x 12 deep by 20 high; I get great spread by the bottom of the tank of the tank and not too much light spillage. Though tbh as you work your way up the water column there is a noticeable "shadow" area towards the front and back. Nothing too drastic but it is noticeable.

The light (which I probably should have added in the opening post) is a finnex planted+ 24". Love the color temperature on it, and i get pretty respectable growth out of it. I did recently add a dimmer to it because I was getting quite a bit of black hair algae and despite changes in ferts and light duration, I was still having issues, dialing the intensity back to ~70% seems to be having a decently noticeable effect. Since adding the dimmer I run the moonlights during the day to increase the apparent brightness (something I considered made the tank too sterile looking before the dimmer)


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Time for another update! With some pictures!

My hygro seems to be doing well climbing up over the top of my light









There is some new leaf growth in the planter box, seems like as the algae is going down in the main tank that the growth in the planter box is picking up. The african violets stopped flowering, I think it's because there is a lack of light, might change things up later on, but for now I like the way it looks.









I added an auto top off of sorts. It's a piece of wood with a hole drilled in it that sits on the rim where the canopy would normally go. There are a pair of metal l brackets that keep the wood from sliding into the tank.









Lastly a not quite full front of tank shot. Not terribly noticable, but the algae on the driftwood is definitely going away.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Nice tank  You hardly ever see 25 gallon tanks usually.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

I have to say I admire your craftsmanship. The concept is interesting as it allows the "extra" nutrients to be used by the emersed plants. I guess you now have to worry about possible deficiencies actually. 

H. corymbosa looks nice. It can produce purple flowers if it feels great, the smell is not that great thou. I also had good success with Bacopa and Ludwigia species for emersed growth.

Hope you will be patient enough to see this through to the end. I believe it will turn out impressive.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Some brief updates, as ive been incredibly busy with work... no pictures atm...

In response to dukydaf, no deficiencies so far... though I do dose api leaf zone, as well as seachem micros every week with water changes.. the tank has always appeared to be nitrogen limited however as it is relatively understocked (still looks full to the eye though) ans api test kit always reads 0-0-0 on this tank as well as my shrimp tank (test was confirmed working when cycling tanks). Also on the topic of the planter being a nutrient sink, that wasnt originally my goal, it was much more for aestetic reasons, I just didnt like the look of an open top tank, and I was really looking for a place for more and different plants to thrive

Ive had some inquisitive white clouds swim into my ato bottle, which I released assuming they gotten stuck. They have since proceeded to get theselves in and out by themselves so ive generally left them be. I tried getting a decent picture, but the ato bottle (a empty 2 liter) is fairly deformed and im in search of a slightly more rigid alternative.

I also added 2 kliener prinz swords to the tank, which I purchased last month and had in qt due to snails. I treated them with alum and then observed and they should be snail free. I also removed the brazillian pennywort from within the tank and added that to the planter box. This was due to it not having done very well submerged and in response to how well its growing in anotyer tank once it broke the surface. I also found a small hosta at work that was in a discard pile, brought it home and tossed it into the planter (no stone or anything) and it seems to be adapting... im slightly concerned about how big it will eventually get, however ill cross that bridge if and when it arises....

Thats it so far for updates, nothing earth shattering


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Time for a much over due update WITH PICTURES!!! Going to do this in 2 posts, one with stuff from last week, one with stuff from this week.

Firstly the full tank shot









A couple shots of the planter

















The hosta as previously mentioned being added. The tattered leaves are all it came with, everything else is new growth.









My hygro (which is getting ridiculously tall out of the tank ~12") sent a shoot out that is growing exclusively under my light... Looks kind of cool. Also you can see the LED I use for moonlighting.









And an end on view of the tank









Now some miscellaneous pictures of the wildlife in the tank.


















































































Lastly some teaser shots from my other 5g aquarium, which doesn't have a thread..



























Bump: Reserved for the follow up post from this week (have plans so it's going to have to wait) but stay tuned... additional plants added, and more pictures!


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Looking forward to see how big the hosta is going to get LOL.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Part 2:

This week.

Cleaned the glass, so the front of the tank looks better









Added some new plants to the box (listed below) and trimmed some dead leaves... Also some of the broken ones from the hosta... It seems likes it's putting up a new leaf every couple days. Even with the roots and base of the plant completely submerged, out of all the plants in the box I had the most doubts about it, and it seems to be THRIVING. It's putting everything else to shame for how fast it's growing, it almost makes me leery about leaving it in the box... BUT I can always remove it/trim it smaller later.










And a end on shot of the box, not really sure if I've shown this view before









New plantings in the box...
Sugar Peas- I had success growing these and lima beans in college hydroponically as a class project, so I started some seedlings and added them to the both my tanks (only one in the box as I don't need it to smother everything). I'm hoping it will grow across the light, and then down the side of the tank... or maybe across the window... Not really sure yet.
Stella de Oro Daylily- Added it back center.. I was looking for something grass like, and this seemed to fit the bill and the fact it flowers is a nice bonus, not sure how likely it is to flower in reduced light... BUT the yellow flowers that were on it looked pretty while they lasted.
Purple Waffle (Hemigraphis alternata)- Nothing special here, was just looking for some additional color.
Pilea Moon Valley (pilea mollis)- Added this cause the leaves looked kind of cool... Kind of a lime green with a lizard scale texture. Wasn't something I went looking for, so we'll see how it does. But atm the cutting is small, and will hopefully survive
Purple Passion( Gynura Aurantiaca)- Again was looking for some color, and while the purple waffle was going to be my plan (and the wandering jew) I saw this and the price was right... So the fuzzy leaved purple plant had to be added as well.
I've also got most of these plants growing in a traditional planter as well in the house (you buy 1 small pot and there are 2-5 stems in there with the roots all tangled up) So even if they should fail in the fish tank I have some for other experiments later on.

This brings my total number of plants in the box to 14. Which seems like a lot for a 24x6 planter, however I like the diverse depth of plants... It looks much more natural (to me at least). It's almost like stocking a tank... some of the plants stay low, and others are tall, same as foreground, mid ground and background plants in the tank.

I would promise I'm done tweaking... BUT that would be a lie. I'm not exactly sure what else I'll add, but I'm always on the look out for more nifty plants and more places to stash them.


Finally I leave you with a picture of my nifty new tank (I found it on the curb for FREE). Its an odd dimension 7.5W*11.5L*12.5H, but i think the footprint would look great next to the bedroom tv. BUT that's all pending approval of the misses. ATM it's being used to QT some frogbit and water lettuce from another member here.










p.s. I'm also slowly chipping away at an arduino weather device, both for sensing outdoor weather as well as pulling in real world weather conditions and displaying them locally. Not entirely sure if it's going to get incorporated into the tank,. or jus tbe a nifty desk experiment tempescope... BUT I'm already picture fog, lights and wind for the box based on real weather somewhere in the world...


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

I'mA quick teaser while I'm on vacation... did some local gathering from the adirondacks. Have various pond weeds, which I should be able to identify (the lake they were gathered from has been surveyed numerous times, so the species are known) also gathered some small east elliptio mussels, hopefully they survive the trip home and adapting to tank life.

Most excitingly I found an aquatic worm for lack of a better term in the sediment while collecting plants (15 feet of water so should be fully aquatic) that I'm going well reproduce enough to stir the substrate in my tanks once is established. I also got some sediment for a new infusion of microbes to the tank (which in mho is a great thing).

All of which will be going into a qt tank when I return home... mainly for snails as I want all the microbes and such

The samples are in the peanut butter jar and the yellow bag (zipploced for the larger specimens)









And a close up of the jar with the mussel in the foreground


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

theatermusic87 said:


> A quick teaser while I'm on vacation... did some local gathering from the adirondacks. Have various pond weeds, which I should be able to identify (the lake they were gathered from has been surveyed numerous times, so the species are known) also gathered some small east elliptio mussels, hopefully they survive the trip home and adapting to tank life.


Yeah what a tease, picture are not visible


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Fixed the photos above, sorry about that... the links that I thought I could use didn't actually work...

And 2 more
Currently just a mess of plants floating in the tank... BUT i'll plant them in some substrate tomorrow










A blurry and dirty pic of the mussels (water is pretty grungy atm)


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

As promised more pictures!

FTS albeit the quarantine tank









Quillwort and mussels 2 maybe 3 types...Isoetes Echinospora and 
Isoetes Macrospora the plant front and center is one I'm not familiar with, though it looks like a quillwort, it has much more bent leaves and has some red, to it as well









Some native Vallisneria Americana, aka duck celery, hoping they stay more on the dwarf side like they did in the lake









Potamogeton Amplifolius (Large Leaf Pondweed) or Potamogeton Praelongus (Large-leaf Pondweed), both look fairly similar, though I'm leaning more towards the later.This was in 15 feet or so of water, so hopefully it should retain a bit of it's redish color under artificial lights


















Potamogeton Robinsii aka Robbins' Pondweed, typically is more of a short bushy plant, will make a nice foreground









THE MUSSELS all 4 survived the transport, which is fantastic! they tend to burrow into the sand and leave just a bit of their feelers exposed. I didn't get them for something to look at per se, though that is cool none the less, I just think they're a part of the native eco system and would like to see if they adapt. These are DEFINITELY small mussels, no more than an inch or so in length. They are found in great numbers in the 3-5 inch length range and up to about 2 inches in width. It took quite a bit of scouring to find these small examples.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

It's been far too long since I've updated this. And i've done a bunch that I really should be keeping up with.

Firstly I got myself a nice DSLR, I've wanted one for years, ever since I took a photography class (ok i wanted one before that, after the class I just understood WHY I wanted it) SO now the pictures will look better! *disclaimer* they pictures also show the algae better too*

NEW FISH
added to my school of cardinal tetra, and will be adding to the school of rummynose (currently in QT), as the schools have slowly gotten smaller over the last year due to jumpers, and the rare swim bladder disorder





































I also purchased and added a powder blue dwarf gourami. We originally had a flame dwarf gourami and my g/f really wasn't keen on how timid the blue ram is. SO she got to decide on adding this one. So far he's not as nippy as his predecessor, and is cohabiting with the GBR quite well. The first 2 pictures are with my phone, the later ones are with the dslr













































I've also acquired a red bristlenose pleco seen here being aclimated into the QT tank. It's very cute, about 3/4 of an inch long, so it has plenty of growing to do.









Some additional plants waiting to be added... currently in QT going through an ALUM dip for snails, have some run of the mill willow hygro, as well as some gorgeous Ludwigia Repens









And now some run of the mill update photos of the tank contents
GBR









The mussels and some native plants













































And now some cool long exposure shots (mostly 1-1.5 seconds) held steady with a tripod





























And the final shot and the one that I have really really wanted to be able to take, but until I could do long exposure shots was out of reach. The tank with my DIY green LED moonlight on. Keep in mind this is a 3 second exposure, SO in actuality it is very dim.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

I completely forgot to add that I picked up some dry ferts, Iron, Nitrate and Potassium, just getting started with low doses potassium and nitrate, Iron I'm dosing as before with the API Leaf Zone. I am still dosing trace as well


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Time for a much needed update. I moved some of the plants around in the tank. Sadly most of the natives I'd gathered didn't adapt well long term. The large leaf pondweed, seemed to be doing alright at higher light levels, BUT since that was causing algae problems, I turned the light back down and it has since died off. I increased the size of my white clouds school to 6 after the bristlenose and rummynose's both succumbed during QT, not sure exactly what happened, they were healthy one day and all dead a day or 2 later, no changes to the tank.

I've been dosing iron, micros, and potassium with great success, noticing much better growth from the planter box, also noticing my vals are finally starting to spread again. I might be picking up some phosphorus in the future, as I've noticed my other tank isn't getting as noticeable growth since there is no phosphorus being added with fish food (shrimp only tank). I decided to try adding some floating plants again, this time some locally collected duckweed (I know I know) since there was too much surface agitation for frogbit and water lettuce. The duckweed has since died as well, not terribly heart broken, but i would like some sort of floating plant, but the spraybar just stirs up the water too much.

NOW THE PICTURES!

Me watching the tank









The oto's there are 4 in the tank, though I rarely seem more than 1 at a time









Cherry shrimp









Gourami









The duckweed before it died off









Ludwigia









GBR









FTS from sept 4th









FTS from today









Gourami checking out the plants









Planter box, pythos has finnally started to grow into the window, might get even better growth now with natural light










I also have setup another tank, it's the one i was using for QT for a bit.. And i've decided to take another crack at a hobbit themed tank... Pictures and thread can be found here. BUT while it's always fun to setup a new tank for the heck of it. I had another reason. I had a random color morph appear in my cherry shrimp population!!! YAY!!! and while I'm not a professional breeder by any stretch of the imagination, I just had to see where this will go. Here's a picture. I'm tentatively calling it a "head and tail" light cherry shrimp









At the time I discovered it, I though it was just a husk from a molt (which i normally leave in the tank) and then it appeared in another spot, and so on, SO i got curious and low and behold there it was. No i haven't added any shrimp to the population in over a year, and no way it could've hitch hiked in on anything with my alum treatments, SO I'm pretty excited about that. I got a LOT more excited a month or so later after it reached maturity and I discovered that she was female and carrying eggs, so there might be some chance of passing on her genes! She currently has her own tank with an assortment of lighter colored males, and is currently on her second clutch of eggs, the first having hatched with decent success. While it's still a bit early to tell for sure, there are a few of the fry exhibiting a much yellower look to them and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes of them.
Here's a picture from today where you can clearly see her distinctive markings as well as clutch of eggs next to a smaller immature male


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## pashaguck (Sep 22, 2015)

Hey tanks for the update. Pictures of the white clouds? I bought 9 this week end for my new 20 gal long.

Sent from my SGH-M919V using Tapatalk


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

pashaguck said:


> Hey tanks for the update. Pictures of the white clouds? I bought 9 this week end for my new 20 gal long.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919V using Tapatalk






























Not the best pictures, they're very flitty about staying in one spot


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Update time again

I added some wandering jew to the planter after I had success with it in a regular planter. Holy cow is it growing like a weed! I added a couple smaller sprigs and it has doubled in size in the past 3 weeks or so. It's fantastic, though I'm concerned about adding it to any other tanks, simply because it may grow too fast.









I also added some pennywort to the planter, again after it started growing well in another tank. I think I've got a sprig taking root now, and I definitely need to remember to plant bigger sprigs so they survive transitioning better.









Also added some polka dot plant cuttings from my window sill box, and they should survive well assuming that they sprout roots. Hopefully their growth rate is a bit faster that the croton I tried before, seeing as how they are both woody stemmed plants.

















The pythos is finally growing long enough that it is wrapping around into the window, at some point it may get long enough to cover the side of the tank... if the wandering jew doesn't get to it first.

I also added a bunch of water lettuce and duckweed to the surface of the tank, that were grown in another tank. ATM I have a large enough amount that they aren't getting pushed around the surface of the water, and will hopefully survive. The only Issue I'm having is no matter what tank the water lettuce is it, it has a mass of green hair algae growing in the roots...









The light for the planter was also upgraded to a 26w cfl instead of the 13w cfl that was in there. I happened across it in a box of lights my dad was getting rid of, and while 26w lights aren't uncommon, it was a smaller form factor than most and stays pretty well obscured in the light fixture.

Lastly I'm dosing nitrates on a biweekly basis. After the first week I lost one of the mussels, so I'm not sure if they are nitrate sensitive or something else caused it to die. The second round of dosing i dosed at half strength (or ~10ppm instead of 20).

AND NOW the some miscellaneous pictures.























































Forgot that I added some myrio to the tank as well


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

For me and anyone else interested a link to my experiences with growing plants emersed, as well as anyone else that contributes to the thread.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/25-riparium-terrarium-vivarium/951834-riparium-plant-list.html#post8513146


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## BDoss1985 (Sep 15, 2011)

Love the tank. All the DIY craftsmanship great job.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Yes, Wandering Jew grows fast. It can make nice little fowers too. Leave don't like to touch water.
Polka dot grows faster than Croton. It's good to clip the tip to force it to spread.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Mariostg said:


> Yes, Wandering Jew grows fast. It can make nice little fowers too. Leave don't like to touch water.
> Polka dot grows faster than Croton. It's good to clip the tip to force it to spread.


Thanks for the tip on the polka dot plant, it has such a nice speckled pattern to the leaves and I would love to have more of it, esp if it continues to grow taller than some of the other plants. Have some with light pink and another with more of a maroon speckling to it.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

SO completely unrelated to this thread but I thought I'd share anyways. Bought a 2016 Subaru Crosstrek











Now on to the thread related stuff.

After much searching I've finally found some rummynose tetras locally that were in decent shape, they're currently being acclimated into QT. This will raise my stocking from 3 to 9 (the school has been slowly declining over the years), and complete the tank.
Final stocking will be:
7 Rummynose Tetras
4 Otos
6 White Cloud's
8 cardinal Tetras
1 Powder Blue Dwarf Gourami
1 German Blue Ram
3 East Elliptio Mussels
A Lot of cherry shrimp

I also picked up some Topfin plant tubes to add to the planter:

Anubias Hastofolia- While this can be used submerged in the aquarium I'd like to see how it grows in the planter, it should get fairly tall there so I think It'll do all right, and it should have nice arrow shaped leaves which will fit in nicely. For the moment it is just sitting in the planter with no substrate with the rhizome above the water line.

Peacock Fern (Selaginella Willdenowii)- NOT SUBMERSIBLE, planted loosely in the gravel in the planter. Hopefully it'll survive, it's listed as a terrarium plant, so maybe it'll work, I'm just looking for something a bit more "whispy" and this should suffice.

Umbrella Plant (Spathiphyllum Wallisil)- which I was thinking was something entirely different than the peace lily rename it appears to be, We'll see what it does, maybe it'll have a different appearance than the peace lily I already have

Hygro Angustifollia- It was already growing in the tank submerged, and in another tank where it needed to be trimmed. I took the trimmed piece and put it in the back of the planter, with the hopes that it'll sprout. I'm curious what it'll look like, I haven't been able to find a good set of pictures. Hopefully it grows as well as the Ludqigia Repens has been doing in another tank.

Some garden variety scallions- they were looking wilted in my fridge drawer, so i tossed them in to see what happens.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

theatermusic87 said:


> After much searching I've finally found some rummynose tetras locally that were in decent shape, they're currently being acclimated into QT.


Unfortunately looks like I got a sick batch. They have ich and I've since lost 4 of the 6. Good thing I QT them; hopefully these pull through, looks like the heat method has removed the ich, but still going to leave them in qt a while longer.



theatermusic87 said:


> I also picked up some Topfin plant tubes to add to the planter:
> 
> Anubias Hastofolia- While this can be used submerged in the aquarium I'd like to see how it grows in the planter, it should get fairly tall there so I think It'll do all right, and it should have nice arrow shaped leaves which will fit in nicely. For the moment it is just sitting in the planter with no substrate with the rhizome above the water line.
> 
> ...


Umbrella Plant- moved to another tank
Peacock moss is maybe barely holding on, need more time to see, but it wilted away on my other tanks. perhaps a slightly higher humidity in the box is helping
Hygro- seems to have wilted away, going to try again at some point
Scallions- doing fantastically!


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Rescaped/trimmed the box a bit, here's what it looks like now










Ended up splitting up the peace lily and added some additional plants.

Based on a thread on riparium plants started by AquaAurora I added some garlic to the box and it's doing fantastically. It's been about a week and I already have 10" of growth. pretty crazy. Scallions are doing the same thing. You can see them in the large grassy looking plant in the center of the picture below









I was able to find myself a parlor palm "Neanthebella Palm" and was able to split that up into several specimens. I really the whispy fern look, but I've been having not so good luck finding one that I'm sure will grow. I've heard several other people have had success with these, so hopefully I will as well. Though I don't have a picture of them specifically.

I found a pot of emmersed grown babies/angels tears which was fantastic, 4.99 for a decent sized pot probably 6" around of plant. It was in a garden center in the fairy garden section, so be sure to keep your eyes out for good deals, never know where you'll find them. I've added them to the pot with teh peace lily and parlor palms, hopefully it'll creep out and form a sort of carpet under all the plants already there.









I found some "carex evercolor everdi" sedge that supposedly likes it's feet wet (makes sense there are lots of wetland grasses and such, so it makes sense. Hopefully it'll work as a decent smaller alternative to mondo grass.









I also found some "muehlenbeckia complexa"angel vine (also in the fairy garden section). It has a nice red stem to it and smaller roundish leaves. Also supposedly will tolerate moist ground, so I think it'll do alright in the planter.









Lastly I picked up some Black Leaved Clover "trifoilium repens 'pentaphyllum'" wasn't really looking for anything like this, but happened to look down and find it as well. It looks like regular clover you'd find in the yard, but with a dark purple center to the leaves, which looks pretty bad ass. I'm going to see how it does in the planter, but i'm expecting it to do well. Unfortunately not the best picture of it.










Some Coleus Trailing Plum "Solenostemon Scutellarioides" It's very similar to the fittonia, and as such I'm expecting it to do very well. BUT the coolest part is it would open up a WHOLE VARIETY of color combinations for the planter. I say this because there are all sorts of varieties in pinks and purples and reds and vibrant greens out there A QUICK GOOGLE SEARCH FOR VARIETIES









I'm still trying things out looking for a grassy look... So that's part of the reason for all the new plants. Ideally I'd like a low growing carpeting plant on the bottom, moss, babytears, angel vine, something like that. then a bunch of leafier plants in the middle with some good color, and then finally some taller ferns and grass like plants over the top. Something layered out a bit more than it is now. It would look a bit more like a swamp then a river/stream edge in at least in my mind. Maybe at some point i'll add a water fall/driftwood to it to give it a bit of vertical texture as well.

Finally I leave you with a top down look at the new planter layout


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

New plants and fish in QT, some

pogostemon erectus (probably not going to do very well, was supposed to be mermaid weed, buit I didn't notice until I got home)
green ozelot sword
bronze crypts
red flame sword
and some crypt petchii

probably going to put these in in place of some of th estem plants. I'm just not digging the look in the tank ,the planter seems to be doing very well though, it appears everything has been adapting well that I added in the last update. the baby tears are especially doing well where I put them on top of the HMF filter sponge.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

PICTURES

Red Melon Sword









Baby's Tears and micro sword emersed on top of the hmf









Crypt Petchii









Bronze Crypts









Red Flame Sword









FTS (please ignore everything floating in the water column it was disturbed during planting)









Full tank with planter shot


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

This post is more for me and my notes than anything else

Did some water testing today based on a thought that I NEVER have hard water scale in this tank, not on the tank, the planter, the filter, NOTHING while my other tanks all have a ring on them (so does the shower)

25g | 3g | 5g | TAP |
7.4 | 8 | 8.2 | 7.8 | PH
10 | 12 | 12 | 12 | GH
5 | 78 | 7 | 7 | KH

I can understand the lower PH being from the lower GH and KH since I ahve a large piece of driftwood in the tank, BUT I would've expected some scale for sure. Not sure what's gong on but thought it was interesting. This tank also gets no protein build up on the surface like the other tanks do... Which again to me is odd, I feed heavily and have a higher stock ratio of fish, and the other tanks are lightly to moderately stocked with shrimp that get fed sparingly.

Idea- staggered tanks
side by side salt/brackish and freshwater tanks, ato sensor in salt tank, freshwater tank filled and overflows to the salt, keeps salinity stable, and minimizes maintenance

Idea- Planted trashcan sump
as it sounds, floating foam sheet, planted on top, inside a cabinet? or baskets suspended across top of cabinet, with roots hanging into bucket? could allow for large/taller/heavier plants to grow if top is supported

Idea- Large joined tanks
55g+ tanks joined end to end/side to end for unusual shaped displays connected with 4" + bulkheads joined by fernco fittings (allows slight imbalance and movement of tanks), fish can swim between tanks, could have sump with an open top below with plants growing up in between tanks (logistics could be a challenge) return on one end of tanks, overflow on other end, powerheads for water movement in tanks


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Just a quick teaser video, finally though about using my helmet cam (which is waterproof to 3 feet deep) to take a short video in the tank. Nothing special atm, might have to do some more with it later, and updated photos and such... BUT here it is https://youtu.be/HaWVz1iQ2jk


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

OK update time!
FTS









*The Tank:*
The swords and crypts that were added are all settling in very nicely, Almost no melting of any of them (which I find surprising), only a couple of very battered/broken leaves mainly. They have almost all shot up 1 or in most cases more new leaves and I can see them filling in nicely. The Red Flame and the Green Ozelot Sword seem to be putting up more low growing leaves than I was expecting; hopefully that changes because I was really hoping for some moderate height out of these.









The crypts, ESP the bronze crypts are filling in beautifully; it seems that they are already starting to grow another new leaf before the one that is already coming in has stopped. I can see down the road having an issue with these filling the bottom of the tank completely and needing to be thinned, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. ATM they're providing excellent cover for the cherry shrimp; who are much more in evidence outside their java moss ball; there also appear to be more small baby shrimp out and about in the tank as well; which I'm assuming is due to the increased cover. The Kliener Prinz swords, which I replanted to make room for the crypts also seem to be doing very well, lots of new leaves, finally coming in with lots of red coloration to them as well, AND I was happy to find that the 2 I had originally purchased had turned into 4.









Im also trying duckweed and water lettuce again. I did a major (at least on this tank) plumbing change. I removed the spray bar and reduced the pump size; I would say I'm now running closer to 50gph instead of 200gph, trying to reduce the amount of movement in the tank. It's been about 2 weeks since i did this and there have been no major complications yet, and this will bring the tank more in line with how much flow I have in my shrimp tanks that both are growing beautifully.

*The Planter:*

















An update from my previous experiment.
The Coleus Trailing Plum "Solenostemon Scutellarioides" and carex evercolor everdi" sedge and the bella palm seem to be surviving for the time being; I'm not seeing much in the way of growth from either of them, but I can be patient. Everything else didn't adapt well and slowly died off. The scallions and garlic that I had growing in there seemed to be doing reasonably well; and then they just ran out of steam and rotted off right above the water line. One of the Palm's also did this, SO i'm assuming that it needed to be up a bit higher. I also removed the hosta; it never really did anything and now the leaves were just wilting away; it had a decent root system developed, but I just wasn't getting anything from it. Maybe I'll dig one up in the garden come spring time.

There is some baby tears that I purchased from a garden center, didn't make it in the planter; but they are doing quite well on top of the foam filter in the tank. I've wanted something to grow here for a while; and my attempts at java moss failed (overrun with algae) and micro sword (grew too slowly).
When Introduced








After a month










I also FINALLY got some of the ludwigia to grow some emmersed leaves, so that is in the planter box as well; not sure how it's going to look growing like that; BUT it's worth a shot. I am also trying for a 3rd time to get some of the willow hygro to grow emmersed; and maybe i'm having some limited success with it. I know what that looks like and it should fill in well at some point.









After much searching I've finally found a RED tiger lotus (every where around here has green) I'm thinking it's going to go in a 5 gallon for the time being until it outgrows that tank. Curently it's in QT.

I've also started to notice some nutrient deficiencies in the pythos and peace lily, currently I have a thread posted up HERE about it. I'm thinking Potassium, BUT i'd like some additional input

*The FISH:*
Since the planting of the crypts, I've noticed most of the tanks inhabitants sticking closer to the bottom. Not sure if it's a comfort thing for them, or due to less vertical plants, but it is noticeable.
The gourami and GBR are still getting along, they've even become buddies of a sort, usually choosing to hang out in the same corner of the tank most of the time. The white clouds are showing signs of eggs, and I'm hopeful that with how planted the bottom of the tank is, that should they decide to start spawning that some of the young will survive. If the the cherry shrimp can make it so should they, right?


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

I've decided to stop dosing traces in this tank. Based on various threads floating around and my dosing/water change schedule a little bit of some nutrient build up I _think_ I'm running into trace toxicity. Im using this thread Toxicity / Deficiency Literature Research - Plant Deficiencies - Aquatic Plant Central as my reference for what the threshold is for toxicity. I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm up for the experiment. I'm thinking this tank is experiencing this and not my others because the other tanks are dirted and have a better chance of absorbing the nutrients into the substrate than the sand in this tank.

Basically it's a grasp at straws to try and deal with growth issues everywhere but the planter. I'm struggling to keep water lettuce and duckweed alive in this tank, which both thrive in my others, hygro stems have been melting for ages, vals have stunted growth; waffle patterns in some of my plants indicating either a k or iron deficiency (which when the doses are increased hasn't changed anything) BBA algae is STILL a problem despite excel and various changes to the photo period and intensity, I addressed a nitrate deficiency and now I'm getting all sorts of issues with other apparent deficiencies, pinholes, chlorosis, which aren't solved by additional dosing; etc.

I've read that terrestrial plants have a much higher trace tolerance than aquatics and this is partly what's leading me down that path. ATM i'm going to proceed with dosing 15ppm NO3, ~10ppm K , 2ppm PO4, and 0.1ppm Iron plus a drop or 2 or iodine for the shrimp. This is based on Toxicity / Deficiency Literature Research - Plant Deficiencies - Aquatic Plant Central which has a chart with decent terrestrial nutrient requirements that happen to scale down very nicely into roughly E.I. dosing amounts. It recommends magnesium and calcium dosing (possibly if they become noticeably deficient) however I'm going to rely on my hard water to supply this. Iron also fell into this possible category, but since I have a lot of vals (which I've read love iron) I'm going to dose it for the time being.

I did a ~80% water change today (the fish weren't terribly happy with it, but they survived) to hopefully remove most of the nutrients from the tank and give me a somewhat blank slate to start over with. I'm going to observe my water lettuce and hygro as they grow very quickly and should show me a change more rapidly.

On a side note the last piece of an arduino controlled setup has finally arrived from china. It'll probably still take me a couple months to get it put together and the bugs worked out, but the goal is to have an easily adjustable temperature control, lighting duration and start time, and intensity. I haven't decided if I want to allow the planter timer to be controlled independently (time wise) from the tank; it's not terribly hard to implement, I just don't know if it's needed. I need to figure out how i'm going to assemble the finished product; I'm not terribly fond of the way that the arduino components connect electrically, it works great for prototyping but not a really finished setup. We'll see where it goes. I also need to find a box

lastly I leave you with a FTS


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Mini update time, nothing drastic just some pictures and observations.

No Micro dosing continues, haven't run into any issues with micro deficiencies (though I am finding that this tank is eating through potassium like it's candy) and while it's not a direct link I am noticing significantly less BBA in the tank. Not a direct link as there is still some, but asides from increased potassium dosing and slightly different lighting (increased intensity to compensate for more floating plants) nothing has changed. I would be interested in doing an experiment to see if there is any relation between the 2, but that'll have to wait until I have a place where I'm allowed to setup more tanks.

Potassium shortages I am still getting pinholes in my hygro leaves and have been increasing the amount of potassium I'm supplementing; i'm now up to 15ppm weekly with 10ppm every other week coming from kno3. At the moment that seems to be the sweet spot number, though only more time will tell for sure. Either way if it's enough or not I;m noticing substantially more growth in the planter. A couple new leaves one the palms, several leaves in various stages of growth on the peace lily, and even growth on the purple waffle which I had pretty much decided wasn't getting enough light. Even the submersed plants are responding well, leaves on anubias that hasn't done much and the crypts and swords are growing in quicker than before. I'm going to guess the tank has been potassium limited since setup. I'm guessing my other tanks are similar, though they do get a bit more frequent kno3 dosing since they get very little fish feeding .

Now to the pictures
I added some baby tears on the filter foam 2 months ago or so and here's what it looks like today









and for comparison last months photo









I'm quite excited about that growth, it's pushing into the tank and growing submersed of it's own accord. It's growing so ferociously up there that the micro sword I had been SLOWLY cultivating up there has been forced to do this









Almost BBA free anubias. This was at one point almost completely black with algae, now it's almost pleasant to look at again. Thats the last time I use a low light plant as the focal point in a moderately lit tank again... I swear... 









and it can barely be seen in the background of this shot from the middle of december









The pythos and wandering jew are finally growing down the side of the aquarium like I had originally wanted them to do oh so long ago when I build the riparium. Now I'm not entirely sure I'm sold on the look, that and it's cutting into the end view of the tank. Perhaps I'll move em to the other end of the planter and get them to grow along the light and hide it that way.









A shot of the planter 









and a FTS of the tank proper









Lastly anyone who thinks you can't have cherry shrimp in a peaceful community tank... lol I can't kill em, ok bad pun, I'm not really trying. But without any extra feeding here's what I'm dealing with.








and









they'er surviving and reproducing solely from whatever leftover food they find from my feeding the gbr and oto's. I can't imagine there is really all that much that really gets left behind as the gourami also loves to pick the tank clean of any of the sinking pellets the gbr gets.


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## Wilderman204 (Mar 5, 2015)

Looking Good! I bought a Laguna Topfilter off amazon for $30( basically an over the pond sump). Going to do the same thing with it. But I'm planning to use it to filter 3 10g tanks and a 30g. Just trying to figure out the plumbing and stand design.
A Topfilter in the pic, they designed for pre-formed ponds.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

Photo links broken for outside world. Can't use direct google drive links like that unfortunately.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Wilderman204 said:


> Looking Good! I bought a Laguna Topfilter off amazon for $30( basically an over the pond sump). Going to do the same thing with it. But I'm planning to use it to filter 3 10g tanks and a 30g. Just trying to figure out the plumbing and stand design.
> A Topfilter in the pic, they designed for pre-formed ponds.


That looks pretty neat. Never seen those before, and you're right it is very similar to what I build. I like the idea of the lid though. Could dril through it and nest some hydropinc pots in there.
@vanish
Pictures should be fixed. I'm pretty sure i had that issue the last time and I forgot to check if they were working. next time i'll pay attention I promise


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## Wilderman204 (Mar 5, 2015)

The inside has removable baffles and media basket things too. Makes it easy to clean and customize. Could do some DIY and block the bottom hole And use a return pump to turn it into an under tank sump


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

That looks fantastic, and it looks like it would sit better on the tank than mine does. square bottom and all instead of needing a sheet of wood. Those baffles look fantastic, way better than the craft mesh I have in mine. IN case you can't tell I'm slightly jealous you found that and I didn't. Put up a link to your build thread when you get around to it


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

I had originally written this in response to another thread, BUT I rambled off topic, so i figured I would post it here instead so i don't lose it.

THESE ARE JUST MY RAMBLINGS AND ARE NOT BACKED UP IN ANYWAY, however should you wish to discuss any of the points I make you are more than welcome to comment

I have no way of backing any of this up, it's just my personal assumptions and beliefs from my own observations. It is my belief that CO2 is the limiting factor in most tanks that are fertilized as well as in nature.

As you have already noticed the light, in whatever amount your using isn't "wasted" it goes everywhere and either gets used, or it doesn't. The same is true in nature (with SIGNIFICANTLY more power than in our tanks).

The point of E.I. or PPS Pro, or any fertilizer regime really is to provide enough nutrients that the plants are never short of anyone (or multiple) nutrients. Some fertilization schemes target specific amounts based on observe/tested use, and some such as E.I. provide sufficient with extra, and the large water change is to prevent nutrients from building up to toxic levels (more on that later). In nature, there are effectively limitless supplies of nutrients, the concentrations may be very low ppm, but the shear volume of water in most locations makes up for this.

Too much fertilizer can be toxic to plants and stunt their growth typically outside of what we can do in our aquariums unless water changes are very minimal or we overdose something by mistake, though there is some debate about trace minerals and their build up but that is a subject for another thread (or 2 or 3). Algae being very simple organisms can adapt to these "toxic" conditions and continue to grow better than the plants. This allows them first crack (or at least a better than average) crack at any co2 in the water and you get an algae bloom. Well how does this explain algae blooms in nature from agricultural runoff? if you get excessive nitrogen or phosphate in the water to create these "toxic" levels for plants then you get a similar algae bloom.

The same goes for shortages of nutrients. Algae again being simple organisms can adapt much more easily to missing a nutrient and still being able to thrive, much better than plants can (which again leads to stunted plants, slower growth and first crack at co2) .It is my belief that there is a correlation to what algae show up vs what nutrients are in short supply. I have no way of proving it, but I'm half convinced green hair algae is tied to potassium similarly to how people tend to believe green spot and phosphate are linked.

co2 as a limiting factor. this is where i'm weak because I don't have a co2 setup. BUT some things I can surmise. Plants are better at handling low co2 concentrations than algae is; my thoughts on this are that plants being more complex lifeforms have other means at their disposal to obtain carbon, which algae is lacking. Plants use whatever co2 is available first, and other carbon sources second; since algae has no second source it is stunted and you have minimal algae (this is why you can dose excel and get better growth from plants without additional algae). While plants are very effective at using co2 from the water, they can't possibly get all of it as soon as it's created, which would explain why you occasionally have small amounts of algae (think monthly glass scraping instead of weekly).

injected co2 concentrations, this I'm not sure on... i'm leaning towards higher carbon sources in the water being toxic to algae SIGNIFICANTLY quicker than it is in plants. This would apply to both liquid carbon (already know to have anti algae properties) and dissolved co2. It would be an interesting experiment to see if excel sensitive plants like vals are also sensitive to excessive (100-200ppm) dissolved co2 concentrations before other plants

The previous 2 statements together, algae needs a "co2 sweet spot" in order to out compete plants when there are sufficient (but not too much) nutrients in the tank, somewhere between none, and toxic which I think for all practical purposes is unobtainable in our tanks except in those instance of diy yeast setups. This would mirror natural bodies of water where there is usually a background co2 level above 0 (but not 30ppm like is injected) and algae and plants grow in harmony

I think a lot of the underlying issues people have that are solved with reducing light actually stem from some other nutrient issue. There is probably a reason you don't see very many high light non co2 tanks that work. I think it's mainly due to experienced aquariasts "knowing better" than to try it, and beginner aquariasts not knowing enough to identify an underlying problem. The solutions of dim the lights; reduces available light to EVERYTHING, slowing growth, which puts less demand on nutrients in the water which makes them no longer limiting leaving co2 as the limited nutrient. Add floating plants, this reduces light (see previous statement) as well as having unlimited access to atmospheric co2. Limitless supplies of co2 allow the plants to use less than ideal nutrients for growth similar to how algae can using up a nutrient imbalance that algae would've otherwise been able to capitalize on. I'm firmly convinced of this, seeing numerous deficiencies show up in submersed growth, that are nonexistent in emersed/floating growth. Lastly more plants, more plants means less light for algae, more plants means less co2 available for algae to have access to (plants use it first). 
By this point one of a couple things has happened. 1) The person has either gotten sick of plants and algae and given up, 2) they have decided to go with a low tech low light setup 3) have learned enough a bout ferts that they are now using them and this is keeping algae at bay by good plant growth 4) gone with a co2 setup (which may not solve the issue if they skipped option 3) IF they have moved to high light co2, then more than likely they are no longer having nutrient shortages and could probably get away with reducing co2 to some non zero amount (5-10ppm?) and get slower growth with the same lighting and no algae

At some point I would love to setup a bunch of tests to determine what if any of this is true, however there is no space for any of that in my tiny apartment


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

As a reward for reading that preceding rant I give you photos. Please forgive the glare, lense flare, etc, they're just cellphone picks. But to make up for it there are also pictures of my rarely seen 3 and 5 gallon nano tanks


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## nsellers (Sep 3, 2015)

The pictures posted above dont show for me


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

nsellers said:


> The pictures posted above dont show for me


Should be fixed, I am going to lose my mind with google photos. I thought I'd figured out how to post as I've been successful before with adding pictures from shared albums, and I even CHECKED THAT THEY WERE WORKING and the next morning they are broken... 

Anyways not your fault and should be fixed now


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Caught some pictures of my white clouds flaring at each other. Apologies for them being grainy, the camera didn't want to shoot decently exposed images at a lower ISO


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Update time!

I'm pretty sure I gave myself a iron shortage because of carelessness on my part. Last week I dosed 5ppm phosphate and 1ppm iron. At the same time! Didn't really think anything of it until a this week when some new anubias leaves opened up and they had some nice chlorosis going on. Completely forgot those 2 dosed together can precipitate out. Hopefully thats all it is and not some other issue.








and









Lost a cardinal tetra as well. she had been looking "old" for a while a couple missing scales, some whispiness on the fins like they were starting to come apart, swimming apart from the group more often than not... No signs of aggression though towards her so i'm assuming it was her time. Esp since they've been in there for over a year and were mostly mature when I acquired them.

Also on the fish front I picked up a bunch of CRS (Crystal red shrimp) for $3 each. They went through a 3 week acclimation process to go from the 0gh water they came in to the ~12gh tap water I have. I lost a couple but the majority survived, and when a decent population has developed, I'll move some into the 25g tank as well. A couple local aquarium enthusiasts have had great success with our local tap water, so I have high expectations for these guys and gals.

While drip acclimating them to their new home I had not 1 but 3 seperate shrimp climb inside the airline tubing I was using like they were trying to get into the new tank preemptively! Never seen anything like it before









Lastly some pictures of the planter as the tank itself isn't looking its best atm having a bunch of die of from hygro pinnatifida transitioning from emerged to submersed growth, not sure it's going to make it.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Nothing much to update at this time. Cleaned the hmf foam, the pump was starting to suck air one day last week. Not bad to not have to clean the filter for almost a year and a half. The plants growing on it surprisingly tolerated it pretty well.

I need to move the light for the riparium higher since the peace lily are getting tall enough they are starting to get burnt on the housing

I may have finally cracked the secret to growing floating plants (in this tank) I really think that I have been running WICKED short of potassium since I started the tank. Now that I'm dosing a lot of potassium every week, I'm finally noticing that bioload isn't really able to keep up with the nitrate/phosphate requirements and I can dose those a bit more frequently as well. There is even duckweed growing in the planter, which it has never ever been able to do. Actually this has been happening in all of my tanks since I stepped up the potassium, they're all turning into nitrate hogs, which I suppose is a good thing.

No more iron dosing (since I induced the deficiency with too much phosphate at the same time I realized it's probably not necessary) also still no micro's dosing and no noticeable issues related to that either.

Basically all the tanks are running on auto pilot, just the occasional top off and feeding. Sometimes a water change if i can't remember the last time i did one (usually about once a month)


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## Cmeister (Jul 5, 2009)

Can you shoot some more photos?


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Quick update... besides working 284 hours last month and my neglecting the tank a bit...

I lost all my cherry shrimp over the course of about 3 days (3 tanks worth) no idea why, parameters all tested good, water changes didn't help, nothing. I'm very bummed. I just recently (several weeks later) picked up some amano shrimp which didn't last 24 hours in qt. They were supposed to take over as a clean up crew, but again no idea why, everything tested out alright, qt tank wsa cycled, used older tank water (post water changes after the shrimp massacre), so i'm kind of stumped what could be in the water that is deadly to inverts but fish don't seem to care, copper comes to mind, but I can't image how it's in the water supply... maybe something being added at the treatment plant to combat the crazy high (for our area) temps and low rainfall? I think i'll wait another month or so before trying again (again with water changes in between)

I moved the planter light over since the peace lily was growing SO well I though it was going to catch fire (the leaves were browning where they grew into the light) and I am planning on getting a second one to balance out the planter again. I learned that some of the plants, ESP purple waffle do MUCH better with direct lighting

I resacped the tank (kind of) I took everything out, dirted it put sand back on top and moved the plants and drift wood around a bit. Mainly I wasn't happy with how i'd originally placed the plants (beginner me) put a bunch of lower light plants like anubias right under the lights and they constantly had algae on them, I wasn't terribly happy with how I had kind of willy nilly through plants in without much in the way of grouping them together, so it looked like a hot mess, and I wasn't really getting the growth I was looking for with just sand and root tabs. Things I discovered during this process, the swords and crypts (most of them) had some really REALLY long roots; despite having what I would consider minimal growth of leaves. Some of the anubais plants were much bigger than i thought they were since they had been growing out of view, super glue works really well even on wet wood for holding plants in place, AND that if you suck enough sand through a siphon you can pack the hose FULL of sand and spend the next half hour trying to get water flowing again.... ... 

The fish keep puttering on doing their thing peacefully and tolerated the rescape surprisingly well the rummynose didn't even lose the color from their nose, despite being moved into a temp tank and moved back into a rescaped tank a couple hours later..
Pictures of the tank, before










and after the recape











and a week and a half later


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

cool


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

It's been a while since I've updated, so here goes. Pretty much nothing besides the tank puttering along like it has been. Growth is decent (the guppy grass is surprising me with how quickly it grows). Finally got some amano's that survived qt, and found some RCS locally that are slowly repopulating in a smaller tank before getting some culls moved over to this tank.

Some pictures before thanksgiving



























And after thanksgiving (note the growth of the guppy grass in the front left corner)










Lastly I'm trying out DIY co2 on the tank. Not because I want faster growth (though that would be cool). I'm currently using 3 2 liter soda bottles and am getting about 1 bps (the bottles are on a cold window sill so they are fermenting slowly) and my plan is to rotate one fresh bottle in every week. I'm using the recipe found in this threadultimate DIY CO2 with benefits… wine byproduct!, which is really what I'm interested in. My g/f got me a fermenting kit for christmas last year and I'm finally putting it to use, and maybe the tank will benefit from it as well.

So far I haven't noticed a huge change in the 2 weeks I've been bringing it online, the guppy grass is growing a bit more quickly ( i was trimming it every other week, now it's every week or so) though that could be because it is settling into the tank still, and I've notice my anubias seem to be more agreeable to putting out leaves (though again anecdotal). I am sure however that the baby tears and micro sword that had been emersed in the top of the filer are doing better. I am seeing new growth on the submerged portions of the baby tears (small, but still noticable) where before the leaves and stems would slowly melt away as they got pushed under by the plants on top; and the micro sword are sending runners of plants down the filter foam deeper into the tank, which is kind of cool. I may end up with a micro sword wall if I'm not careful.

Thats all the update for now


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

theatermusic87 said:


> I resacped the tank (kind of) I took everything out, dirted it put sand back on top and moved the plants and drift wood around a bit. Mainly I wasn't happy with how i'd originally placed the plants (beginner me) put a bunch of lower light plants like anubias right under the lights and they constantly had algae on them, I wasn't terribly happy with how I had kind of willy nilly through plants in without much in the way of grouping them together, so it looked like a hot mess, and I wasn't really getting the growth I was looking for with just sand and root tabs. Things I discovered during this process, the swords and crypts (most of them) had some really REALLY long roots; despite having what I would consider minimal growth of leaves. Some of the anubais plants were much bigger than i thought they were since they had been growing out of view, super glue works really well even on wet wood for holding plants in place, AND that if you suck enough sand through a siphon you can pack the hose FULL of sand and spend the next half hour trying to get water flowing again.... ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Question for you: how did everyone do with you taking out the sand, puttin in dirt and capping it after? Dis it work out okay? 

What kind of dirt did you use? I also have a riparium and I really want to switch my tank to dirt but others had said to keep your fish out of the tank for much longer than a few hours like you or a few days. 

Great tank! You've inspired me to increase my riparium plant variety!


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Fish handled the change spectacularly! I have rummy nose and a German blue ram, both of which most people associate with being sensitive to changes in parameters, and they didn't even lose any color. I attribute this to keeping my filter submerged (it is a massive piece of sponge), the riparium that sucks nutrients out of the tank, planting heavily, and having floaters, whose growth recolored for the first couple weeks after the change. I did test for ammonia the next 2 days but never had a trace, so I'm assuming it was all getting consumed or converted to nitrates.

As to the soil, it was a bag of miracle grow organic putting mix originally, but it also had whatever soil came with my riparium plants mixed in. The only prep I did to it was soak it for a day or 2 before hand and removed most of the floating debris

The whole process was relatively painless, worst part was catching the fish at the beginning, of say the whole process took about 3 hours


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

theatermusic87 said:


> Fish handled the change spectacularly! I have rummy nose and a German blue ram, both of which most people associate with being sensitive to changes in parameters, and they didn't even lose any color. I attribute this to keeping my filter submerged (it is a massive piece of sponge), the riparium that sucks nutrients out of the tank, planting heavily, and having floaters, whose growth recolored for the first couple weeks after the change. I did test for ammonia the next 2 days but never had a trace, so I'm assuming it was all getting consumed or converted to nitrates.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's super interesting! That gives me hope that I can do the same. 

I have MGOC potting mix I might mix with some top soil i have and maybe some of fluorite i have in my rank already. So you capped it with your sand you already had? I was going to use some black blasting sand that is new and i wonder how that will effect everything.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

bbroush said:


> That's super interesting! That gives me hope that I can do the same.
> 
> I have MGOC potting mix I might mix with some top soil i have and maybe some of fluorite i have in my rank already. So you capped it with your sand you already had? I was going to use some black blasting sand that is new and i wonder how that will effect everything.


Yeah I used the existing sand, well most of it anyways, some got removed and not put back in, since the dirt was taking up space and I didn't need the substrate crazy deep.

As far as running into issues, I think as long as you have a well established biofilter of some kind, lots of surface are in the tank and riparium, you should be fine. There was thread a while back http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1045898-matrix-without-seachem-41.html that tested how much ammonia you could realistically process through a give filter , and they were finding that despite the ammount of ammonia being processed being obscene, that a bare tank with just water flow could still process a couple ppm of ammonia, so as long as you test your parameters the first couple days and do any water changes as necessary, I think the switch will go off just fine


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

theatermusic87 said:


> Yeah I used the existing sand, well most of it anyways, some got removed and not put back in, since the dirt was taking up space and I didn't need the substrate crazy deep.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as running into issues, I think as long as you have a well established biofilter of some kind, lots of surface are in the tank and riparium, you should be fine. There was thread a while back http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1045898-matrix-without-seachem-41.html that tested how much ammonia you could realistically process through a give filter , and they were finding that despite the ammount of ammonia being processed being obscene, that a bare tank with just water flow could still process a couple ppm of ammonia, so as long as you test your parameters the first couple days and do any water changes as necessary, I think the switch will go off just fine




One last question: did you mineralize your soil? Or add other things to it? Just curious


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

bbroush said:


> One last question: did you mineralize your soil? Or add other things to it? Just curious


Nope, just dirt and pool filter sand.

Though I do dose kno3 occasionally to the water column to keep all the plants happy


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Just a quick note for myself (I promise there are progress pictures, I just haven't gotten around to uploading them). But there are now 14 boraras maculatus, (dwarf rasboras) in QT awaiting a new home. Stopped in at the LFS after work, found myself staring at some rummynose and cardinal tetras in the trade in tank, walked around the corner and there was a tank full of these cute little guys. Not sure if they're going to end up in the 25g, or in the 5g (or since there are as many of them as there are) some in each?


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

PHOTO DUMP INCOMING!!
*
December of last year*

Redid one of the planters of peace lily, this is what it looked like before









And the 5 gallon got a side view shot









*January!*

Nerite chowing down on some algae (believe it or not the glass is spotless now)









The 5 gallon got a much needed trim, and the crypts that were taking over the whole tank were removed and replanted with some smaller babies









Some assorted growth pictures of the swords in the 25 gallon




































One of the oto's chilling on a rock (not sure why but they love that rock). Usually you'll find 1 or 2 there all the time.









An ammano shrimp molt that was out in the open and looking cool









*FEBRUARY*

Mostly a front of tank shot right after they were fed.









Some of the shrimp chilling


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Ran out of room for photos so here are some more

*MARCH*

Sorry, no tank pictures from march. We had a pair of windstorms come through and since I do tree work for the power companies, I wasn't really home all month; fortunately the tanks cruised along just fine. So instead here are a couple pictures of some of the damage














































Also for those of you who are familiar with the tv show stargate (if you're not I highly recommend it for scifi lovers) I give you the imfamous MALP on a stick! It's a helmet camera inside of a waterproofing case, attached to the end of a 18 foot long stick. I used it on a couple days of much needed vacation from the storm work to film underwater through the ice at the family cottage. Video links are below the picture if you're interested 









https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxIE2YxKgs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IMBtaf0Mpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWSIwOMu8yQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wYsGBvdFwE


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Cool vids!


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Which of course brings us to *APRIL* firstly the 3 and 5 gallon tanks, they're cruising along by themselves without too much intervention. Planted filters are staying fairly tame. I have a sneaky suspicion that these tanks are both running very lean on nutrients (I don't dose these except on rare occasion) so the only nutrients present are from shrimp food and and what comes in in water changes. I'm slowly converting the 3 gallon filter into just riccia, and hopefully some buce (unidentified that I won in a RAOK) while the 3 gallon is a collection of whatever happens to get tossed in (atm some buce, anubias petite, assorted hygros, pennywort, a crypt, and another plant I'm forgetting the name of (it's earlier in the thread if you're curious). Inhabitants are still just shrimp

Bump: *April part 2*
The 25 gallon tank and a bunch of assorted pictures. Plants get a decent trimming every week or 2. The swords without regular trimming would completely take over the tank. DIY co2 is still going strong and is relatively speaking hands off. Typically I just swap out a bottle when ever I do a trim and it lasts without fiddling for the time in between. Ferts are just a small pinch of kno3 and k2so4 every 2-3 days, and a small pinch of iron with water changes, and that keeps up with the demand of everything


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Some more pictures along with a whole tank shot with the riparium on top.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

The Co2 setup, I feel as though I've been neglecting describing how this works for way too long. At first I wanted to see how well it worked long term, but then I got busy and now is the time! I feel like it's a somewhat unique way to dissolve co2 into the water, and it is best shown with a video! https://youtu.be/NnAVo78gke0  With this setup it acts similar to a reactor without all the extra plumbing parts needed. Since I already had an airline in the return plumping for the planter box to cut down on noise, adding some micro bubbles from an airstone "diffuser" didn't change the performance of the drain at all. As you can see in the video, the bubbles sort of churn around in the return pipe increasing contact time and dissolution.

I'm using 3 2 liter bottles and a smaller 16oz bottle (as a bubble counter) with the screw on caps that typically come with the citric acid and baking soda kits. I wasn't sure how well the yeast would do, so I got something I could use citric acid in if i didn't like the results and with the success I am having, I see no reason to ever try citric acid. Using this thread as a guide I mix up my solutions every week or 2 depending on the remaining bubble rate. What I really like is that with the needle valve from the kit I can control how much co2 is being delivered to the aquarium, and any extra that I don't need at the moment stays in the 2 liter bottles, extending the run time. The pressure gauge that came with the kit when converted to psi shows that the yeast co2 mixture will ferment to about 60-70 psi (well within the designed pressure for these type of bottles) and will slowly drop over the course of the next week. This has 2 advantages firstly I'm in control of the amount of co2 delivered (meaning I can consistently hit and keep a 1.0ph drop for the duration of the fermentation period) secondly it means that the "product" left in the bottle when I'm done is nicely carbonated (so when brewing hard cider's and sparkling wines it's quite refreshing to drink!). Biweekly maintenance takes around 5 minutes to swap in new bottles with warm water, sugar and a juice concentrate of my choice. Fermented bottles are simply capped and placed in the fridge and drunk at my leisure.

I ended up using the airstone (instead of a fluval ceramic diffuser I had purchased) because even though i can build 60psi I don't need the amount of co2 that the ceramic diffuser produces, and the airstone seems to do a decent job of making micro bubbles at a much lower working pressure, so with the pressure dropping in the bottles over time I end up with consistent bubbles for a longer period of time as the pressure drops to ~0. The location of the airstone ended up in front of the return line by happy accident (even though it works amazingly well there). Originally the airstone was in the tank (which worked semi decently) but was very ugly looking. SO as with all equipment items, I tried hiding in the planter box, I was going to place it under the pumped in side, but my airline wasn't long enough, and being lazy it ended up in the back of the box by the return. I noticed the bubbles were making there way towards the return all by themselves, one idea led to another and boom, the mini "reactor" was born. It is so effective that I can run the 25g tank, plus planter with its associated splashing, no lids to keep co2 in, or anything fancy on 0.5-1.0bps to get a 1.0ph drop (as tested with a test kit). Every day or 2 i need to slightly tweak the needle valve during feeding to readjust the bubble rate as it slightly drifts slower, but it for all intents and purposes is basically hands free


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Tank is still going beautifully well. The riparium and the tank itself both require regular trimming. The diy co2 is still going strong and driving nice mostly algae free growth through out the tank. The crypts and anubias are growing at a rapid pace and have even flowered a couple of times. I cleaned the filter for the first time in roughly a year, it only took a few minutes and I wish the rest of my tanks had such easy maintenance. Here's a couple of current photos


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Added a pair of Apistograma Agazzi "Red Flame" to the tank MF, and they're settling in nicely after their QT period. They looked gorgeous in the store and I couldn't say no. Also picked up 4 each of cardinals, rummynoses and ammano shrimp. This will give me a total of 7, 8 and 8 respectively and will fill in for the occasional loss/jumper I've had over the years.

Plants are still growing exceptionally well, and the tank is in desperate need of being thinned out. As soon as the stuff moved in front of the tank to fit our Christmas tree into the room is moved I'll take some pictures and do the thinning


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Since I keep losing where these threads are so I can find them again later

The indicator solution
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/1116610-4dkh-recipe.html
my diy drop checker
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1079857-co2-drop-checker.html#post9553266
co2 to drop checker color chart for various dkh indicators
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1079857-co2-drop-checker.html#post9531529


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

The end of windowsill hooch may be upon us. I have been looking at pressurized co2 for a while, bought a cheap reg, but never found a tank. Well... I got lucky... Found not 1 but 2 tanks with a regulator out for trash at the curb.A 5lb aluminum and a 20lb steel tank.

A little bit more luck to find out my dad has a bunch of old co2 fire extinguisher that he's looking to empty to make bells out of. Some diy don't try this at home, and I now have 2 mostly full tanks of co2 to play with. 

All added up I think it's cost me $25. And I have basically unlimited free co2


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Tanks still going, just some record keeping for myself. Routine trimming and occasionally moving stuff around

20 cpds and 15 emerald dwarf rasboras to be added after quarantine


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

New apartment, all the tanks were consolidated into the 25g, still growing well without co2.

Added 10 exclamation point rasbora's.

Might need to replace the maten filter soon, it's loosing it's rigidity and is struggling to stay in place, just not sure what I'll replace it with


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Ended up replacing the matten filter, the foam had lost most of it's strucural integrity. I went with a single piece filter instead of 2. I never really had a need for the 2 pieces to be seperated and I think I went that route in the first place due to cost and availability of foam. I added a red flame sword againg to add some color and height to the tank, the crypts aren't doing it as much for me anymore. And i've got 6 nerites in QT to replace ones lost over the years.


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