# German Blue Ram breeding journal!!!



## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I finally got my GBRs from oddballfish.com They arrived quite shaken up because the bag leaked slightly and there was about 1/4 of a cup. The gels that the bags come with to absorb any leaking of the water was soaked. They arrived around 3:00 today and both already have some nice color though are still a little skittish. . .I thought that if they color up this fast that they are usually the hormone-injected ones but please prove me wrong. As requested, I got a male and female. The female is the more skittish of the 2 but when I'm out of sight to them, they seem to venture out together to search their surroundings. Just wanted to share. . .Thanks for reading!!!! 

Oh, I can't get any pics right now but I'll try tomorrow if I remember:redface::thumbsup:


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## demosthenes (Aug 23, 2008)

thats awesome! i've been looking into getting a breeding pair of GBR's soon, i'll have to look into that website. good luck with them, they seem like really fun fish to have.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Well, my goal/reason for getting rams was to breed them. They started cleaning a certain notch in the driftwood but then go off seemingly in search of another area and that continues like a cycle. Their color seems to be extremely bright which I guess should be another sign. They are also trying to fend off my rummies and otos. Because the 10 gallon tank is not ready and this would be their first spawn, I have no attempt to try to preserve up to the first 3 spawns after what I have read. Those who have successfully raised ram spawns, please chime in on anything I am doing wrong or any tips you might have. Also, the 10 gallon for breeding was intentionally made to be a planted tank so the manzanita was already siliconed to the bottom and has immersed hc already so I used some nice rocks for them to breed on when they go in.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

*10/19:*

They laid eggs!!! There seem to be about 200+!! This is the first fish I've ever had lay eggs!! As I've read and previously mentioned, I am going to leave the spawn in there to see what happened. The rummies are not going after the eggs and the mom chases them away if they get anywhere within 3 inches which I find cool. She also chases the male away at every point except when he fertilizes the eggs (not very menacingly though). I'm curious to see what I'll wake up to tomorrow morning. Also, if the fries were to survive to the free-swimming stage, (which would be unexpected) how would I feed them. I have Hikari first bites but i understand that is still too big for the tiny mouths of baby GBRs. I do not have vinegar eels or microworms but plan on hopefully starting a culture soon. I do have frozen daphnia though if that makes a difference. And the pics:










Egg clutch from above









Another pic of the eggs









The male









The female

Please respond and thanks for reading!


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Wow your very fortunate. What size tank is this?

If you end up raising them a little older give me a call. Your parents look AWESOME!


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

*Thief-*Thanks. . .I got them off oddballfish.com for about 8$ each plus shipping. The thing that surprises me is that I got them Friday!!! I didn't expect anything for like a month let alone 2 days. 

Oh, and it is a 29 gallon. The FTS is in my sig. Go to the last page to see what it looks like around when they spawned.


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## HiroPro (Jun 2, 2007)

I'd be surprised if anything survives in your community tank. I had a pair breed 3-4 times in my 55G community tank and the eggs always disappeared after a couple of days. I tried removing them but wasn't very succesful. Finally I put a small clay flower pot base in the tank and buried it in the substrate where they alway dug a pit and layed their eggs. They cleared the substrate to the clay base and layed their eggs right on it. I was able to remove the base with the eggs on it and transfer it to a small plastic container so they could hatch.


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## MikeP_123 (Aug 31, 2008)

Just got a pair of gold rams and wanted to breed them. Do you think the fry would survive In a med-heavy planted 55G Tall with only 3 glass shrimp and 4 Van Rios? Also FishBoy, Did you do anything to the tank via water temp/water change/live food/etc?


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

*MikeP_123-*They would probably be fine with that few amount of total fish but I've heard of glass shrimp eating especially small fry and because tetras are fast, they could get around your parents if they choose to protect the babies. But parents protecting babies is a very rare occasion and most breeders would recommend artificial raising where you move the eggs into a raising tank. As far as changes parameters of the water, feeding, etc., I did a 33% water change and supplemented with frozen blood worms and frozen discus formula (discus formula because it would most likely be high quality if it's made for discus) I raised the temperature before I got them (It's currently 80 but is recommended higher when breeding). When I did the water change, my water through the tap is only filtered when turned cold so that's what I did. The thing that you should be careful about if you choose to do this is that it shouldn't be freezing as rams can be delicate to parameter/temperature changes. Breeders say cold water simulates the rainy season (spawning season) for rams and can help trigger spawning. If your rams pair and spawn, the will continue on about a weekly basis. When feeding the babies (who have especially small mouths for fry) it is recommended to have either a micro worm or vinegar eel culture ready which I am currently making an attempt to obtain. Good luck!!! 

*10/21:*

The eggs were all eaten which was expected. But thanks to my impatient being, if I get a micro worm/vinegar eel culture, I will decide upon artificially raising the next expected batch of eggs. My one question though, is. . .Can I use a turkey baster to suck up the eggs and squirt them into a jar of tank water so I can bring them to the holding tank? Thanks for reading and please respond!


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

*10/25:*

Either today or tomorrow I will be doing the weekly water changes which I will use half of the water change water to start the cycle on the breeding tank. It's just a 2 gallon plastic tank but I do have an 6 gallon eclipse in the garage that I could also do. Since it's more heat resistant, I might try the eclipse but I'd have to find a place to put it. It will be filtered either way with a red-sea nano filter with a sponge over the intake, it'll be heated by a 25 watt heater set to be about 83degrees and will also have a bubble wand. All I can feed will be micro worms which I am soon going to order. I can crush up flakes as small as I possibly can and I have Hikari first bites for when they get bigger. Also, nobody answered my question about if I can transfer the eggs by a turkey baster to suck them up and squirt them into a jar to transfer them.


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## valerietheangel (Jan 6, 2008)

Cichlid eggs are fairly sticky so I think you'd have a difficult time with a turkey baster without scraping the eggs off first. The problem with this is that the eggs could be damaged while you're trying to move them. If you MUST move them, remove them with whatever structure they are adhered to. On the other hand, cichlids evolved over thousands of years to have excellent parenting skills. I'm a huge fan of not messing with nature (when possible).


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## MikeP_123 (Aug 31, 2008)

FishBoy - Thanks for the tips! I hope my parents do raise them. Currently my water temp is at 78 sincemy ceiling fan is on full Blast and I do not have a heater set up. (I had one go off and fry all of my fish once, so I don't trust em) Is there any other way to get the water up about 2degrees? I just turned my fan off today and the room is getting nice and warm so I am hoping that will do it. I'll try the water change thing tomorrow and see what happens. How long after the water change do they usually spawn?

I hear that sometimes people put something over the eggs to prevent them from being eaten. You could try like a mesh or rock/cave or something. Do your parents try and protect the eggs?


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

*MikeP_123-*They can usually spawn within the day of the water change. Mine did within about 5 hours or so. Sorry, but I wouldn't have too many other ideas apart from the heater but 78 isn't anything particularly bad but it's just not the perfect temp. and there never really is a perfect temp. because there are diff. opinions on the topic.

*valerietheangel-*the spot is the biggest piece of driftwood on my tank and it has moss and such on the other end so it cannot be removed. I could not get the water change done this weekend and I am usually extremely busy during the week so I'll see if I even get a batch this week and I'll just let nature do the rest. If I have any time this week, I'll try to remove the eggs.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

*10/28:*

Even though it was 2 days, a lot happened. They laid their second clutch of eggs without even a water change. 2 days later, (today) they hatched and I have wigglers! I also managed to set up a quarantine tank (2 gallons) and sucked up some eggs (like 75 out of the 200) by the process mentioned in the previous posts. I had the tank filled half with tap and half with tank water. I have it filtered with a red sea nano and heated to 79 degrees. The remaining batch was left there. After doing tank work today (trimming) I noticed the absolutely pissed-off parents biting my scissors and hand!! I was a little surprised because I no longer saw any eggs in the usual spot and figured the parents ate them. Long story short. . .I was wrong. There were wigglers moved further to the front of the tank in a sand pit that were most likely moved by the parents. Now I have wigglers in both tanks. Sadly, I have put off getting a micro worm culture too long and I'm going to order one today but I fear the might die before they get here. I will post the progress and comments always welcome!


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## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

Just buy a good heater, set it at 3 degrees higher than you want and then also buy a seperate heat controller if you really dont trust heaters.

Or get a high quality like a stealth and replace every few years and you will be fine...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Crush up some flake food very fine, mix it with a little water, and use an eyedropper or turkey baster to put some in front of the fry. Remember that they don't need to eat until their yolk sacs are absorbed. It would also help to throw some moss in the tank with them, both as a hiding place/make them feel more secure as well as likely will contain some infusoria they can feed on between your feedings.

Feed lightly and frequently. Put a few snails in the tank to help keep uneaten food and waste under control.


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## Wicket_lfe (Aug 21, 2008)

I commute from Ronkonkoma to queens a lot, and hang around hicksville all the time. If you have some to sell please let me know. I just bought 1 ram the other day and want to add like one or two more. congrats on the success!


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## MikeP_123 (Aug 31, 2008)

I have also heard instances when the parents will "chew" up the food for the young ones. Also that a few young ones are usually big enough to eat baby brine shrimps. I also second the moss.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

i'm jealous that you have breeding rams... makes me want to give it a try....


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I do have moss and will put some in in a little while. I was watching the 29 gallon and noticed a baby escape and then I saw the male put it in his mouth and then spit it out over the group. I don't know if this is typical or not but any new thing I see from the babies fascinates me  In response to Wicket_lfe and others interested, I will post on here and the swap-n-shop when I'd be willing to safely sell the babies. Most likely .5"+ will be the size. They should be free swimming soon (within a day or so) and I will do my best to get a picture when that happens.


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## MikeP_123 (Aug 31, 2008)

DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I GOT EGGS 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ANY TIPS SO FAR?


How long till they hatch? how long till I will need to feed them? LOL, tell me what works for you!!! I've never done this b4!!!! ahhhhhh im so happy :fish:


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Wow, It's great to hear you liked the info I gave you. The little info it was!  I was just as surprised as you seem to be! Like I put in the first posts, parents usually eat their eggs their first spawns. I think half of the reason mine were being so defensive was because they looked like they were of breeding age months before I obtained them and the other half would be flat out luck. If you are not patient (like me) and want fry immediately, take a turkey baster and suck the eggs up. Transfer them to a jar of tank water, put desired amount of eggs into the jar. Take the jar to a smaller tank if you have one and have that tank filled half with tank water and half tap. Heat it to about 79-83 degrees. If you do not have any of these things, try to get any transparent container of about a gallon's volume but you can do a jar if there is nothing available along those lines. Get a bubbler if you have one and use it for oxygenation and circulation for the eggs. Try to shade the eggs from a lot of light (not critical) because I've read a lot of light increases the chance of fungus for the eggs. If you don't have a culture of micro worms or vinegar eels, as stated above by lauralee, crush up flakes as small as you can and put them in water, suck them up with a turkey baster and squirt them where the babies can see them. If the eggs hatch and you get wigglers, do not feed them for 2-3 days, one of the reasons that they can't swim is because they feed on the yolk sack which kind of holds them down. Also, if I'm right, they also have a sticky substance on their stomachs that keeps them down. Do your best to get a culture going as this is highly recommended by other breeders. Good luck and just ask if you need any other information!:thumbsup:

Note: As previously stated, I have no past experience and I'm kind of winging it and going by information I've read online. Find as much information as you can by googling. And again, do not get your hopes up on the first spawn as parents gain experience through their spawn. Possibly like mine, your fish might already have experience spawning (the usual size starts at around an inch).


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## MikeP_123 (Aug 31, 2008)

Thanks. You got a lot of great ideas! Another question, how long did it take for the parents to eat the eggs the first time? I'm still going to try the natural way simply because I don't trust myself. I have been feeding the parents frozen blood worms and noticed that when I get the frozen block in the water and press it in between my two fingers little fragments go out into the water column in a sort of cloud. Its not big enough for any of my fish to notice (let alone eat) but the particles entice the fish with smell. Do you think if I got some of that in an eye dropper that the little ones would be able to eat it? Would it be too small?


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I've never heard of anything along those lines but it's worth a shot and seems possible. I can't really help you there. Sorry. Anything otherwise I will do my best to help.
*
10/30:*

No free swimmers and this was about the second day tonight so I will be expecting swimmers tomorrow morning or evening.


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## asimkhatri (Sep 17, 2007)

show the Pics of fry dude


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I don't know if I feel like it  . . . jk . . . I'll have pics up hopefully today. . .no promises  Oh, and they're free-swimming since last night!!! They are so cool to watch being protected from the tetras in the tank. Maybe I'll do a video. . .either way, picture update later.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

*11/2:*

Well, no pics for yesterday but I had them taken today so here ya go. . .

(all are the female with the fry)




































Even though it was expected, I found the rummy nosed tetras eating some babies and I wanted this batch to live so I quickly removed them to another tank. What's weird is that the eggs I moved to the quarantine tank are still wrigglers so I don't know what I can do. Any ideas?


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

thanks for sharing those pics.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

I'm surprised the rummynose only started eating the babies now. I'd have expected the tetras to eat all the fry immediately.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

The parents guarded the eggs really well and pushed the tetras to a small territory behind/under the driftwood. I was surprised as well! Now the parents seem less stressed and they are letting the fry roam slightly further away from the entire group itself. I'm hoping that now that the number of predators is now next to nothing with the parents being the only exception if they decided upon eating the eggs, that the survival rate would increase dramatically.


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## asimkhatri (Sep 17, 2007)

thanks for sharing those pics.


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Awesome pics. Congrats on the fry!


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks! I don't know what the deal was but all of the fry were eaten I think. I think taking out the tetras might have been the cause because the parents were being really over protective and now that all of the eligible predators (otos shouldn't eat the babies) were gone, the parents let the fry stray away and they most-likely became less-protective and ate them. On another note, the other fry are free swimming from the quarantine tank as of late yesterday. I am curious to see how these will go about. Oh well, hopefully the next spawn (if there will be a next spawn) will have some promise.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Keep them well fed and keep up the water parameters and they're pretty likely to spawn indefinitely.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Yeah, but whats weird is that the spawn that got to be free-swimming didn't even need a water change or live foods to encourage. . .the only time I have time to feed live foods and do water changes is on the weekends so those usually serve as the trigger


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Got eggs again and finally got the micro worms yesterday!! I plan on rescaping the QT tank as the other free swimmers didn't make it. I'm gonna have a sand bottom with a cap to a jar or another flat surface so the fry can easily find the worms. I'm also switching the filter to a DIY canister filter. This time, I will take all of the eggs and I will take it from there and hopefully I will have a higher/longer survival rate this time.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Got wigglers again and cleared out shelf for new QT tank to replace other one, will move wigglers hopefully tomorrow


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## qazplm25 (Mar 3, 2006)

I have really enjoyed reading your journal and I was looking to buy Rams and heard oddballfish.com was great but it had a 30$ minimum order. How did you bypass that or did you buy alot?


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Sorry I didn't get back to respond earlier. They were great and I would personally recommend them. I didn't really get around the $30 thing but I had another tank that could use some other fish so I ordered 2 medium rams and 2 threadfin rainbows. The weird thing was that I got 2 rams and 2 white cloud minnows(I think) instead. I was never set on getting the rainbows and I just needed a harmless fish to fill the price so it worked out fine. My only true complaint was that the bag sprung a leak during shipping and there was 1/4 a cup remaining and the sponge used to soak up the water for leaks was drenched. The rams held up great after a shaky acclimation and they bred 2-3 days after getting them. 

*11/17:*

The wigglers I described a week ago are still alive and free swimming. I tried to move all of them to the QT tank this time but some of the eggs getting moved fell into the moss and weren't spotted so I have 100+ in the QT and about 25 and the 29 gallon tank with the parents. Fry in both tanks are doing great and now that the micro worm culture is fully established, I have a steady food supply of worms till' the fry get to the size of 'first bites' and crushed flakes. It could be just me but they are showing growth. I read another online journal and it looked like you could start making out the body form of the ram at 2 weeks and the color starts at 1-1 1/2 months. Hopefully the batch will survive and I'll try to remember to get some pic. updates this week.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

roud:


My rams have been spawning for months now in my 45g, but between my SAEs, loaches(now removed), and nerites, all the eggs disappear.

I've got a 5g setup as a breeding tank that I will be moving the rams to in about two weeks.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

To move to the 5 gallon tank- do you mean the adults to spawn in the tank or to move the babies into the tank. . .


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

fishboy87 said:


> To move to the 5 gallon tank- do you mean the adults to spawn in the tank or to move the babies into the tank. . .


I'll be moving the adults over to breed.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I don't know whether to be happy or not about this but I just got eggs again but the first batch is still alive. . .does any one know if the parents will stop caring for their babies if they lay a new set of eggs. Oh, the batch of 100+ in the QT tank all died sadly but about 2. I recently added amano shrimp which will hopefully not eat the eggs. I know that some people have had accounts of this happening but my rams are extremely defensive so hopefully they'll survive. . .I'll keep the whole batch in here this time. This is a rather large clutch of eggs (seemingly 300+) and then there are the 19-20 babies that are 1.5 weeks old so it'll be a HUGE clutch if they all hatch!!!


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

They hatched. . .woh! It's insane. The parents are scrambling all over the tank trying to get the babies that stray off. There are like 3 left from the past spawn and I'm confused as to why I lost so many but Friday or so I'll do a decent wc and take it from there.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Don't do a big water change, newly hatched fry are _*extremely*_ sensitive to water parameter changes. I'd do no more than 10%.

Congrats on the successful hatching!!

What will you be feeding them?


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## chikit2370 (Sep 17, 2008)

I've had GBRs before that breed every week on thursday for some reason. But every time they spawn the eggs disappear on the third day. Most probably when the eggs hatch into wrigglers, it seems so tasty that the parents ate them.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

*Lauralee*- It's weird because I haven't done a water change in 2+ weeks and nothing is bad at all but my filter is giving like 1 gph flow even after I cleaned it (zoomed). I just thought I should've done a bigger one because I haven't done much as far as maintenance goes. Oh, and I feed the babies part of a micro worm culture twice a day. I hope to start with crushed flakes 2 weeks after they hatch. The heads up about the sensitivity is great and I appreciate it! 

*chikit2370*-When I got my 2nd spawn, I figured the same thing. It turns out that they moved them all to another cleaned area. The babies also require extremely small food and that could be it. Big water changes might help. Good luck!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Did you clean the mechanical sponge on the ZooMed really really well? I use these sponges as prefilters on most of my canisters, and they're prone to clogging. I have to clean mine every 2 weeks.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Vigorously, I don't think that's the problem but the flow isn't even moving the duckweed floating right in front of the output. I want to switch to an eheim 2215 anyway so I'll just keep up with maintenance until then. . .ANYWAY. . .pics!






































Comments and other opinions welcome. . .


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

i cant see the pics


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I just updated pics in my journal. Can you see them there?


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

i can see previous pics, but not this post, can you give us the links?


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## greatfish123 (Oct 14, 2007)

i cant see the pics either


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_rc3vJKJ-aeI/SQ3ITzNsztI/AAAAAAAAAc0/LtEgkd_Stss/s912/IMG_8713.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rc3vJKJ-aeI/SS7lbZ4g2tI/AAAAAAAAAd4/pRZqCUyhKLc/s912/IMG_2303.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_rc3vJKJ-aeI/SS7lcDkgEBI/AAAAAAAAAeA/ClWFyc21BmM/s912/IMG_2309.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rc3vJKJ-aeI/SS7ldHNZjKI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/A0VZ6ZlYfZk/s912/IMG_2314.JPG

How's this?


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

404 not found

Google 
Error


Not Found
The requested URL /_rc3vJKJ-aeI/SS7lcDkgEBI/AAAAAAAAAeA/ClWFyc21BmM/s912/IMG_2309.JPG was not found on this server.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Is that when you click on the link?


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

yup :/


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

FWIW I get the same message.


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## AquaParadise2010 (Aug 3, 2008)

same thing,no pics.Just saw your journal and very nice looking parents.


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## pieky22 (Oct 17, 2007)

i feed all my fry ground up flakes...make it almost like powder when they are first born...then once they get a little bigger, ground it less and less


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## Walking_Target (Jul 16, 2008)

Why not try a large clump of java moss? the infurosa should feed small fry pretty well.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

The tank they are in has some flame moss. They sleep and eatt off it when I see them. Oh, new spawn and here are the pics that you should now be able to see- - -


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## nycsicktank (Sep 15, 2007)

congrants` they look swt


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## almost (Oct 12, 2008)

Fishboy 87, please help.
I have successfully breed in the past chiclids, feeding the fry live artemia. Now I have GBRs eggs, going to wigglers and then dying. I think the fry are too small to eat artemia.
Now I am trying to feed them liquid food (feed U is the product).
Can you please tell me how did you make your micro warms culture?
I really hate to watch them dying..


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

Green water and infusoria should suffice until they are large enough to eat artemia. Leave a lettuce leave in a bucket in the sun for a couple days to a week and use of that 'swamp water' looking stuff that will be in the bucket. That stuff is teaming with infusoria.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

For a micro worm culture, you need to order one off eBay or an aquarium related online store like aquabid.com. Once you get it, you need to take a small percentage of the culture with a spoon and put it in a plastic cup with a cap/seal at the top. Puncture holes in the seal and stuff it with filter fiber or a fine cotton like substance so the worms can breathe but nothing can get in or out. You need the following ingredients to sustain the culture for easier maintenance:

whole grain baby cereal
a plastic spoon
a cotton swab
warm (not hot) water
baker's yeast (preferably fleishmans)
1-2 containers w/ plastic lids

Empty the obtained culture into a plastic container by taking the top part of the culture out with a spoon (keep a moderate percentage of it and ditch the rest so the culture does not get old and die). The culture will most-likely be shipped with food to feed on. Get a new container or clean the one that the worms were sent in. Puncture the holes like previously described in the beginning of the post in the lid and stuff with cotton like material to only clog the holes. Remove lid if not already done and pour baby cereal into container until about an inch high in the container. Take cup of warm water and poor into container with cereal until the mixture is mushy but make sure there is no standing water or the worms will drown and the culture will die. Take part of existing culture that was previously set a side and pour on top of mixture. Then sprinkle about 3 pinches of yeast of mixture (this is optional) over culture mix. Then close cap and your pretty much ready to go. The worms will feed on the culture readily for a week or 2 and might die if not changed out after that period. The water used should primarily be warm when poured in. To start a new culture, take a fragment of the culture you first started and repeat the process. You know when the worms are ready to be harvested when they start crawling up the sides of the container looking for more food. You then take a cotton swab and rub the sides of the container where the worms are and shake it out inside the tank. The worms should shake off and will live 12-24 hours under water so they are usually readily available to the babies for a long period of time as long as the babies can find them. 

The fry overall of german blue rams are very susceptible to bad water quality and quickly die if not tended to properly like some of the cases I've had. If this is the parent's first spawn(s) then you should leave the eggs in there to let the parents gain experience raising and guarding them which can take up to 4 spawns total. Raising ram fry can be quite difficult for even experienced hobbyists and are a challenge. Good luck and I hope this helps!!


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## mojave (Oct 2, 2007)

Try golden pearls or Hikari fry powder. I feed them using turkey baster or syringe. The newly hatched BBS after a week.


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## almost (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks guys for your replies and all the info you share!
I will first try the infusoria (it seems easier to me) and then the micro worms.
Hope I will not “kill” many frys till I learn..


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## pthalobluebetta (Jul 24, 2008)

very cool journal! I've been looking on and off at blue rams for a while, and a pair would be perfect for a tank that currently needs a good rescape. I checked out the site oddballfish. Did you request a mated pair or just a male/female pair? Will any male/female pair bond, or might they just end up fighting and not pairing up?

thanks!


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks!

The people on that site said that they would always try to do the best they could with any order to have an equal or close to equal number of male and female fish. I emailed the people specifically that I wanted a a male and female. . .to my knowledge, the 2 rams that I currently have weren't together before but I'm not positive. Most males and females will bond providing that they have plenty of broken lines of sight and hiding places and are fed high quality foods to induce breeding. Good water conditions and all that other stuff that you would be told on google searches and such would also help too. Fighting is usually if the male gets territorial and the female is shy which is the common case as compared to an aggressive female and a shy male. The only times (at least with me) that the female gets aggressive is when I'm planting or unplanting while there are eggs in the water and the pair recently spawned. . .they attack any part of my arm that is put to the water without mercy which is actually kind of fun to watch


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## Bugman (Jan 7, 2008)

I ordered from oddball about 4 weeks ago with delivery set for Dec 19. Had some questions when I placed the order and they responded right away with the answers. I had a male that lost its mate in one tank and wanted a pair of GBR for another tank. Also wanted a pr of Gold rams for a third tank. Along with these I also ordered some Rainbows. I emailed them about my lonely male and they emailed back that they would pick their biggest female to ship. The order arrived and all fish were in excellent condition. The Rams had gorgeous color. Unfortunately what I received was not a large female and a pr. What I got was two males and one female. Very dissappointed. Now I have two lonley males. Emailed Oddball and they said sorry they try but don't guarantee. They should have done better. The two males were not questionable but clearly males. Was hoping they would offer to send a couple of females at a reduced rate or maybe for the price of shipping but their response was kind of cold. Have to add though that the fish I received were quality. As it turns out the lone female and one of the two males immediately started digging a nest several days later after a water change. Never saw any eggs. The next week after the water change they were at it again. Still no eggs. Next water change is Sunday, we will see what happens. The two lonley males are in a different tank waiting on me to find them mates. Sure wish I knew what it will take to get me from nesting to eggs.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

sorry to hear, it does seem similar to me about the immediate spawning thing though after a water change. . .Mine did the second day I had them. . .they were all nice and my only complaint was that the shipping bag had a minor leak and they came almost dead and with little color both sharing a half cup of water. I would of made a much bigger deal of this providing they wouldn't have held up the way they actually did. I'd recommend getting them from a breeder that you can go and pick out the rams individually. That way, you can make sure they aren't injected with hormones like some LFS, you can make sure you get a male and female unlike what some online stores say, and you can have better control and assurance of their overall health by personally picking them out. That's just my .02$

I just think I got somewhat lucky with what I got


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## bolivianram123 (Jun 5, 2008)

d00d i'm not gonna lie, this is really inspiring. Ive had my pair of rams lay eggs but ive never gotten to the fry stage :icon_neut but reading this has made me want to retry. goodluck with those new fry! and i really like your tank layout its inspired me to change mine to something like that.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks! . .they died again  Wha'd I tell ya. . .the fry die easy. Still, thanks a lot for the compliment and I'm happy to hear you are inspired by this journal! One of the intentions I made for this journal was for it to be easy to learn from for me and others.


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## almost (Oct 12, 2008)

fishboy87 said:


> Thanks! . .they died again  Wha'd I tell ya. . .the fry die easy. Still, thanks a lot for the compliment and I'm happy to hear you are inspired by this journal! One of the intentions I made for this journal was for it to be easy to learn from for me and others.


Did the fry die in both cases?
1. When you left them with the "parents"
2. When you took the eggs?

All of my fry died when I took the eggs and now I will take the parents to a new tank, hoping that the fry will live.
In the past, cichlids and betta fishes have successfully look after their fry’s and only with angelfish I had to remove the eggs (all the fry lived).
With GBRs is the first time fry’s died and I am still wondering which the “secret” is.


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## Wicket_lfe (Aug 21, 2008)

keep trying. its a great learning experience and I'm sure you'll get it eventually. Then I can stop by and buy some.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I'll do my best but I've been pretty busy recently and currently have no time to do the continuous upkeep of water quality and constant feedings. . .which stinks


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## Bugman (Jan 7, 2008)

Well I have eggs for the first time. Set up a 55 for a grow out tank in my basement. Plant trimmings and Purple Moscow guppy fry. Helped take down a fish room of a member of our local club that was in the hospital. He had two pair of small GBR that I took home and put in the grow out tank. That was a couple of weeks ago and today one of the pair dug out a hole and she laid eggs. The male is guarding the nest now. I did my weekly trimmings today and was putting them in the grow out tank. Got a little close and he took a good peck at me. I've got mated pairs in three other tanks with no success and put these in the grow out and there you go.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Cool journal fishboy. My pair is currently digging a little dish into a corner area in my 39 gal tank. I'm sure they'll spawn soon.


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## illjay (Jan 22, 2009)

yes its a very cool journal! I just got a pair of German Rams last week also. Raised the temp up to 82 degrees. hope they shag and make some ram babies! Keep us updated!


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