# Betta cyst or tumor? Treatment options?



## jixie007 (Jul 3, 2015)

Update: I left things alone and just monitored the situation. Nautica is still active, good colors, good appetite. Basically still "bright eyed and bushy tailed". Unfortunately the lump just kept getting bigger, to the point it is making it difficult for her to swim (not in a "swim bladder" way, but in a "this enormous lump is heavy as **** and it's weighing me down!" way). By yesterday it was so large, that I had to act, so I bucked up and did some fish surgery.

Let me tell you... fish surgery is nerve wracking. 

I used a insulin syringe to aspirate the lump, which turned out to be fluid filled. Got out 0.22cc, bleh! She was stressed and lethargic afterward, but today was doing much better. But, it's still a little bigger than it was when it first appeared 9/12. It did not appear to shrink any more after aspirating. So... I suspect I'll have to do this again


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I just found out my goldfish in my pond has the same thing. It's likely a tumor underneath the fluids. There's nothing you can do short of cutting out the tumor but that would probably kill the fish.


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## sweetbetta (Feb 24, 2017)

My lovely female betta has the same problem. She seems to still be doing fine except the bubble is so big she has started to have trouble swimming. I know its been almost a year but what happened to yours? Did she recover? And if she did what did you do? I hope I get an answer I'm so saddened by thought of just loosing her. 

-Linette


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

sweetbetta said:


> My lovely female betta has the same problem. She seems to still be doing fine except the bubble is so big she has started to have trouble swimming. I know its been almost a year but what happened to yours? Did she recover? And if she did what did you do? I hope I get an answer I'm so saddened by thought of just loosing her.
> 
> -Linette


 Whats the size of your tank, parameters of your water, and how often do you do water changes?


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## sweetbetta (Feb 24, 2017)

My lovely female betta has the same problem. She seems to still be doing fine except the bubble is so big she has started to have trouble swimming. I know its been almost a year but what happened to yours? Did she recover? And if she did what did you do? I hope I get an answer I'm so saddened by thought of just loosing her. 

-Linette


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

sweetbetta said:


> My lovely female betta has the same problem. She seems to still be doing fine except the bubble is so big she has started to have trouble swimming. I know its been almost a year but what happened to yours? Did she recover? And if she did what did you do? I hope I get an answer I'm so saddened by thought of just loosing her.
> 
> -Linette


 if you could answer my previous question ya'know that would help a bunch 0


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## sweetbetta (Feb 24, 2017)

The picture does not do the lump justice but its the best I could do with my camera. She's a year and half old. Lump started small 4 months ago, heater just broke last week (she doesn't seem to be affected by the loss of the heater). She used to eat 8 a day but 2 months ago decreased to 4 and over the last month only gets 2 pellets a day since the bump started growing faster
. 90% changes once every two weeks.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

sweetbetta said:


> The picture does not do the lump justice but its the best I could do with my camera. She's a year and half old. Lump started small 4 months ago, heater just broke last week (she doesn't seem to be affected by the loss of the heater). She used to eat 8 a day but 2 months ago decreased to 4 and over the last month only gets 2 pellets a day since the bump started growing faster
> . 90% changes once every two weeks.


 We cant really help you long term unless you answer the questions. Whats the size of your tank, parameters of your water, and how often do you do water changes? :|


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## sweetbetta (Feb 24, 2017)

3gal tank
90% water changes every 2 weeks
I just use betta conditioner to remove chlorine in the water and stress coat for every water change.

:fish:


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

sweetbetta said:


> 3gal tank
> 90% water changes every 2 weeks
> I just use betta conditioner to remove chlorine in the water and stress coat for every water change.
> 
> :fish:


 a betta should be living in at least a 5 gallon tank  3 gallons is to small. period. Betta conditioner is a rip off just saying lol jut get regular water conditioner. 90% is to much. Do 30% a week since its such a small tank. Also you *Still* have not listed your PH, Gh/Kh, ammonia readings, nitrates, nitrites. We need these in order to determine the long term health of your fish.


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## sweetbetta (Feb 24, 2017)

I've never really kept up with measurements, mostly because I do not know how. I've had her for two years and this is the first time I've had a problem. I understand you not being
able to help me further due to insufficient information. I presumed it was worth a shot asking since the previous postee had the same situation and she seemed optimistic about her fish surgery comment, not that I could perform such a procedure but still wanted to know if her betta got better.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

sweetbetta said:


> I've never really kept up with measurements, mostly because I do not know how. I've had her for two years and this is the first time I've had a problem. I understand you not being
> able to help me further due to insufficient information. I presumed it was worth a shot asking since the previous postee had the same situation and she seemed optimistic about her fish surgery comment, not that I could perform such a procedure but still wanted to know if her betta got better.


 Bettas live up to 5 years, seeing the bettas age when sold was probably 1 or so already, its prob. dead by now due to natural causes. I do not recommend surgery on a betta.


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## bigbadjon (Aug 6, 2015)

BettaBettas just gave you an avalanche of bad info. 3 gallons is enough for for a single betta without a doubt. Your water change schedule can't be assessed without knowing your nitrates, 90% every 2 weeks could possibly be not enough. There is no such thing as too much on water changes. Any water conditioner will do but the one you're using is not necassarily a rip off.


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## sweetbetta (Feb 24, 2017)

She seems happy in 3 gal. I love her character (she's a smart little fish). Her color is still very vibrant and she is still very anxious to eat. It's just that bubble that is weighing her down. I got her when she was very small I doubt that she was a year already. I've searched for her symptoms and I know she is not the only one experiencing this, unfortunately everyone just asks questions but trail off w/o leaving any answers as for as what ends up happening to the bettas. Deanerys (named her after GOT) has had this bludge for about 4 months from what I've read it always seems to be on the left side. If anyone has any answer please LMK. I've uploaded another picture during a recent water change, I'll do them every week from now on.


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## Fish Em (Jul 3, 2015)

Bettas are one of the saddest fish to buy because they are usually already harboring some disease like dropsy when you purchase them. Then it's just downhill from there even if you keep them in the best cleanest water. 

I am not an expert and hope someone has a treatment for this.


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

bigbadjon said:


> BettaBettas just gave you an avalanche of bad info. 3 gallons is enough for for a single betta without a doubt. Your water change schedule can't be assessed without knowing your nitrates, 90% every 2 weeks could possibly be not enough. There is no such thing as too much on water changes. Any water conditioner will do but the one you're using is not necassarily a rip off.


Im sorry but I have to disagree on some points.



> 3 gallons is enough for for a single betta without a doubt


IMO 3 gallons may be ok for an experienced fish keeper but for say a novice I would not recommend less than 5 gallons, 10 is better. The bigger the tank the more stable it is. 





> Your water change schedule can't be assessed without knowing your nitrates, 90% every 2 weeks could possibly be not enough.


With a 3 gallon tank I would recommend 50% every week as a minimum and thats only if the tank is cycled and stable. It may need more water changes if its not cycled,



> There is no such thing as too much on water changes.


Well actually there is, If you were to change say 90% of the water the water parameters in the tank would change a lot, You would have to re acclimate the fish to the new parameters, Kind of like you do when you add a new fish to a tank.



> Any water conditioner will do


All water conditioners are not equal, Some are better than others.

EG
Prime will bind ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for 24-48 hours. At which point, if they are still present, they will be released back into the water.

Some people concentrate way too much on their plants rather that the fishes needs.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

bigbadjon said:


> BettaBettas just gave you an avalanche of bad info. 3 gallons is enough for for a single betta without a doubt. Your water change schedule can't be assessed without knowing your nitrates, 90% every 2 weeks could possibly be not enough. There is no such thing as too much on water changes. Any water conditioner will do but the one you're using is not necassarily a rip off.


 I have to strongly disagree with a betta living in a 3 gallon and thriving. Bettas Thrive in 5 gallons and up, keeping a fish that size in a 3 or 4 gallon tank is like making you live in a 6x6 ft room for the rest of your life.
As @NickAu stated this is "OK" with an experienced aquarist but IMO I still don't recommend it. 
Thank you nick for giving some high quality information up there as well.


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## bigbadjon (Aug 6, 2015)

Nick. You just said 3 gallons is enough. So you don't realky disagree do you? Bigger water changes on a regular schedule is better for all fish, you are wrong. I did not say some conditioners aren't better than others, I use Prime myself, but any will do. If you're going to be contrary at least add something to the thread.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

bigbadjon said:


> Nick. You just said 3 gallons is enough. So you don't realky disagree do you? *Bigger water changes on a regular schedule is better for all fish*, you are wrong. I did not say some conditioners aren't better than others, I use Prime myself, but any will do. If you're going to be contrary at least add something to the thread.


 This I can assure highly this is not true, im 99.9% sure that your fish will not like 100% water changes every day. or even 90% water changes every day. Nick gave this example sort of but it is true. And I suggest you stop accusing people of being wrong, when you are the one that's wrong. IMO. And in his defense, he added facts to the thread.


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

This guy wouldnt be happy in a small tank, I recently sold him and started a sorority

Given the room Bettas are usually quite active.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXd_KhyMn_g


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

NickAu said:


> This guy wouldnt be happy in a small tank, I recently sold him and started a sorority
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXd_KhyMn_g


 Usually the reason I say 5G minimum is because, obviously 5 and under tanks are pretty small just visually, and (some filters differ but normally) the flow in 3 gallons for example, aren't necessarily high but a betta with those long fins, or short, wouldn't like it. they live naturally in water that has literally no flow (pretty much no flow.)
Also like the tank  stunning betta


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## bigbadjon (Aug 6, 2015)

Here's the deal on water changes that you are both ignorant of. You can't just say that a certain percentage is recommended because you don't know how much waste is in the water. Here is link to a reliable source explaining the effect of water changes
Pollution-Solution
Here's another
My 3 Biggest Improvements in Aquariums Over the Years | Advanced Aquarium Concepts
You can ignore the truth if you must but don't drag others down with you.


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## proper.noun (May 29, 2016)

Hi @sweetbetta Im not so good with fish medications but If the bump continues to grow I think that your betta's best chance is for you to relieve the pressure of the growth with fish surgery just like the OP did. Of course you have to weigh the costs and benefits of such a procedure, but if the growth starts to look like it's gonna kill her then it might be worth a try. 

If you can get a syringe with a 22, 20, or 18(best size) gauge needle you can aspirate like the OP. Or if you have very sharp and clean razor you can make a small incision on the growth and try to squeeze the fluid out. Kind of like going to a dermatologist to express a deep pimple. Hopefully it's fluid filled and not a tumor.

Novice or otherwise, 3 gallons is just fine for a single betta IMO. 90% water changes seems like too much to me. Is there a filter in the tank? I would do 20-25% weekly or 40 - 50% every other week.

Hope your betta pulls through 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

bigbadjon said:


> Here's the deal on water changes that you are both ignorant of. You can't just say that a certain percentage is recommended because you don't know how much waste is in the water. Here is link to a reliable source explaining the effect of water changes
> Pollution-Solution
> Here's another
> My 3 Biggest Improvements in Aquariums Over the Years | Advanced Aquarium Concepts
> You can ignore the truth if you must but don't drag others down with you.


*" My point is that big waterchanges do a better job of removing pollution and greatly dilute what remains." *
this is true, but with a betta in a 3 gallon tank in this matter, its falsely motivated. what I mean is that it will remove "pollution?" but it isn't healthy for the fish. This isn't a matter of water quality for sweetbettas, its a matter of if a fish, in this case a betta, should live in a 3 gallon tank. 

"So for success you want big frequent water changes. In general water changes should be at least once per week. They should be at least 50%, ideally even larger. 25% is the bare minimum and really should be reserved for lightly stocked, heavily planted tanks"
Also disagree with this, 50% is ok but I wouldn't do it. 25% for me is the regular, maybe the minimum, but its the regular and normal Water change amount. For most fish keepers (as I have read) and for me. Doesn't mean you have to do it, even though depending on your bio load I do recommend it.

I guess you didn't read your own article btw because it says this in the pollution solution link
"My OPINION is that suddenly doing a large waterchange can really shock the fish and potentially cause them serious problems with osmotic regulation. My advice would be to slowly increase the percentage of water being changed and/or the frequency. As the tank water becomes closer to the tap water, the size of the waterchanges can increase."
That's true. and IMO is generally "safe" as to where fish can adapt to the water changes. you cant do 25% one day then the next say "hey I think ill do 70% changes now" that is if you want it to be safe. Also if you want to check and see how much Dissolved Solids are in your water, use a TDS meter.


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## bigbadjon (Aug 6, 2015)

You have to do them regularly. It says that in the paragraph you quoted. Work up to regular bigger water changes and stick with them if water chemistry worries you. I do not worry about it and have never had an issue. I do 2 75% water changes twice a week on my tanks. My fish are large, colorful, and healthy. My methods are above suspicion. You can continue to argue erroneously if you must but it is starting to derail the thread.


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

In my 20 liter cube heavily planted, I do 25% every 3rd day with temperature matched dechlorinated water, I could go 5 days but by then my tank starts to show nitrates.

Normally all my tanks are 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 5ppm or under on Nitrates.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

bigbadjon said:


> . You can continue to argue erroneously if you must but it is starting to derail the thread.


 If you want me to stop correcting you then stop commenting improper information > easy as 1-2-3
step 1: deep breath
step 2: realize you just got facts on you (again)
step 3: step away from your computer and look at your tanks


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## jixie007 (Jul 3, 2015)

sweetbetta said:


> My lovely female betta has the same problem. She seems to still be doing fine except the bubble is so big she has started to have trouble swimming. I know its been almost a year but what happened to yours? Did she recover? And if she did what did you do? I hope I get an answer I'm so saddened by thought of just loosing her.
> 
> -Linette


Hi Linette,

Sorry about your betta. I did a lot of research and tried many treatments for Nautica. Hopefully this information can help your betta. Sorry, this is going to be a long post with a lot of info.

1) It could be a tumor, in which case, there's nothing you can do.

2) It could be an fish tuberculosis, in which case, there's nothing you can do.

*Important:* Fish tuberculosis can be transmitted to people, if you have any cuts, hangnails, etc, on your hands when you put them in the water. It's relatively harmless, causing skin bumps. Since it's a possibility, please be careful when you clean the tank, etc. If you get paper cuts, etc, wear gloves when you do tank maintenance for now.

3) It could be a cyst. Cysts can be caused by a number of different bacterial infections. It is likely a "gram negative" infection.

* The first treatment you should try is a sulfa medication, eg. *Triple Sulfa* or *Maracyn Plus*. 
Triple Sulfa = Sulfathiazole, Sulfamethazine, Sulfacetamide
Maracyn Plus = Sulfamethazine & Trimethoprim
These are a little rough on the tank cycle bacteria. Be careful not to overdose, and you could supplement with bacteria boosters like Seachem Stability.​If she has a open wound (or you try lancing / fish surgery), use Triple Sulfa instead, the Maracyn Plus (Trimethoprim) can make your fish "anemic" which is bad if they are also bleeding.​
* You can also treat her food, in addition to the tank water. Food can be medicated with the *Triple Sulfa / Maracyn Plus* and *MetroPlex*. Or you can treat the food with garlic. Garlic is an appetite booster AND a general immunity booster which will help her get well.
MetroPlex = Metronidazole
If you get MetroPlex you can also treat the tank with it, simultaneously with the sulfa med.​Try not to get garlic into the water, make sure there's no left over food from overfeeding.​Google how to medicate fish food, I'm not getting into that here, lol​
* Another treatment you can try is *Furan-2*. However, it is not easily absorbed, and it's more effective in soft water than hard water. If you try Furan-2 you should definitely treat the food in addition to the tank.
Furan-2 = nitrofurazone 
Don't use with plants / inverts​It works well as a combo with Kanamycin, Methylene Blue, Medicated Wonder Shells​
* You might want to try general immunity boosters / stress reducers / antibacterial treatments, etc. I treated the water with Seachem Prime (absorbs ammonia, helps fish coating), Seachem Stability (helps with the cycle bacteria for water stability during treatments), and Medicated Wonder Shell (adds calcium and trace minerals, Methylene Blue, etc). Other options include MelaFix or BettaFix (tea tree oil, antibacterial), Methylene Blue (disinfectant), Potassium Permanganate (disinfectant), any kind of stress coat with aloe or whatever.
Don't do all of these together, of course. I would pick ONE anti-bacterial/disinfectant, ONE stress coat, etc.​Careful with MelaFix / BettaFix. There seems to be some issue with those treatments and labyrinth fish, like bettas. BettaFix is a diluted version of MelaFix, probably safer to use.​
* You can also treat with salt (general wellness) and / or epsom salt (helps reduce swelling). 

*Important:* A lot of these treatments can be mix-and-matched, and used at the same time. _However_, the more "stuff" you add to the water, the harder it will be for your fish to breath and drink. A simple way to help deal with this, is to use some of the treatments as a "bath".
I used salt and epsom salt, plus methylene blue, as a bath. I put her in a separate container for 30 min every day. Don't dump the bath into the tank, that defeats the purpose, lol.​Likewise, you'll have to be careful and diligent about water changes, according to the directions of the "main" medication. If you do more water changes than the medication recommends, it might not be effective.​
* Other things that might help:
Turn up the heat. Betta's can survive a good range of temps, but the hotter the better. It will improve her overall health and make it easier for her to recover. There are some parasites and bacterial infections that can't survive in higher temps, as well. You can slowly increase the temperature to 80º F or even higher, up to 86º F. I realize some bettas do okay at lower temps, I've had some that were fine without a heater... but she's sick, and a lower temperature _will_ make it harder for her right now.​Darkness / hiding places / plant cover. If they feel safer with hiding places or plant cover, it will help their overall health, vs. feeling stressed out from being "exposed" in an open tank. Some of these treatments will kill plants, so you might try silk plants or cheap plants like anacharis that you don't care if they die. Or you could cover the tank, or use a solid-colored plastic tote for a hospital tank. I used anacharis, it had the advantage of giving her a place to rest when she was tired from weight of the cyst.​
* If you do try to lance / aspirate the lump, use a q-tip to swab it with methylene blue afterward.
You could probably use the tip of a thumbtack or exacto knife. I used an insulin syringe to draw out fluid. But really all you need is to poke a very small hole in the skin. Just on the surface! Don't poke deeply.​You can "anesthetize" her with clove oil. Please Google how to do it, I'm not getting into that one either. You can actually get a small thing of clove oil from a pharmacy "toothache kit", like this one.​Clove oil can also be used to euthanize, if it comes down to it.​
* Another gram-negative medication you might try is Maracyn2.
Maracyn2 = minocycline

TL;DR: Nope, read the whole post.

Tight Budget; Best Bet: If you can afford one medication, try Triple Sulfa or Maracyn Plus. Increase the heat of the tank. Do an epsom salt bath, you can get plain epsom salt (plain! unscented!) from the dollar store. PetSmart has little stress coat packs for, like, $1 that you could split into three treatments. Treat her food with garlic from your kitchen (if you have a jar of pre-diced garlic, a couple drops of oil from that is an easy way to do it). Put a clean mug, or a small terracotta flower pot, in the tank on it's side as a cave.

As for Nautica... unfortunately, she did not respond to any treatments. I was able to shrink the lump twice by aspirating, but it kept growing, and after the second time I wasn't able to draw fluid from it. 

Eventually she stopped eating and the lump got so large she could hardly swim, so I had to euthanize.


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## jixie007 (Jul 3, 2015)

A couple more thoughts I had:

* You might want to use a larger hospital tank, because it will be easier to measure the doses of medicine. Also it will keep the water more stable, which will help with general wellness. I used an inexpensive medium size plastic tote, filled half way, which was 10 gallons. You can get a dark colored tote, will help her feel "secure".

* To check your water, you can take a small cup of water to PetSmart or Petco, they can test it for you for free (or check with your local fish store). The easiest way to check at home, is to get the little test strips. You put the tank water into a cup (don't put the strips right into the tank), then let them sit for a minute, then look at how the colors compare to the chart that comes with.
You don't have to worry about stuff like ph, hardness, etc., for your betta. The important thing for those water parameters, is that they are consistent. If the pet store people try to sell you ph adjusters or anything like that, don't buy it. Those things will cause more problems than they solve.​Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates are the ones the worry about. You want them to be 0.​
* To do a fish bath: get a gallon jug, fill it with water from the tank. Add:
1/4 teaspoon Epsom Salt
1 teaspoon Salt
*Important:* Don't use table salt. It has iodine and non-caking agents added to it. You can use pure sea salt or kosher salt, or you can get aquarium salt from the pet store. Chemically they're the same.​Mix well until the salts are completely dissolved. When you do the bath, pour some salt water into a small clean cup (I reuse the betta cups that they came in!). Float the cup in the tank for a few minutes, so the temperature of the salt water is the same as the tank. Use a net to move your betta into the cup, let her "bathe" for 30 min. Take the cup out, dump the water, use the net to catch her when you do it. Put her back into the tank. Don't re-use the bath water, use new pre-mixed water from the gallon jug each time, a gallon will make up a lot of baths if you use a small cup.



proper.noun said:


> If you can get a syringe with a 22, 20, or 18 (best size) gauge needle you can aspirate like the OP. Or if you have very sharp and clean razor you can make a small incision on the growth and try to squeeze the fluid out. Kind of like going to a dermatologist to express a deep pimple. Hopefully it's fluid filled and not a tumor.


This is good advice, but I would not recommend to squeeze the lump, just let it drain. It's possible squeezing can push the infection deeper.

If no fluid comes out, it still might be a cyst, but it might be a tumor.

If tiny white balls come out, it's fish tuberculosis, unfortunately you should euthanize.



proper.noun said:


> Of course you have to weigh the costs and benefits of such a procedure, but if the growth starts to look like it's gonna kill her then it might be worth a try.


Yeah I agree, it is _super_ nerve-wracking though. It's the only thing that helped Nautica, if only temporarily...

Good luck!


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## sweetbetta (Feb 24, 2017)

Thank you everyone for being so helpful, especially Jixie007 for such detail in the info provided. Our sweet betta is doing well 10 days post surgery (removed about 7mml of fluid). Her bump is what it used to look like about 3months ago. She still has trouble balancing but she is doing much better. Will continue to give her epson baths to help with bloating.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Honestly I really have to say, good job to Jixi and good job to Sweetbetta for solving a very tricky problem, I couldn't of done it that's for sure.
Glad your betta is doing good!  
Nate


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