# True Rotala Indica problem



## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

If you can, will you put two pictures of it in here ?
One up close on what you think is the most problem part and one back a little so you can see the whole bunch of them.
Are they in that 75g ? How long were they when you got them and how long have they been in there ?


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

I'll post a pic of them tonight. They have been in the tank for a week. The whole plant is a problem and really just suspect they were grown emersed (which I despise unless the seller notifies)

Bump: And yes it is my 75. The tank is completely different than it began. I think I recently added a new pic though... Very successful low tech. Grows lopelia cardinalis 'dwarf' with ease.


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## CannaBrain (Oct 3, 2008)

Hm... r. indica grows like a weed for me both emersed and immersed. If it had been grown emersed, the leaves will be much more round (indian tooth cup) and thick.


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## beefcks (Jan 30, 2015)

Mine grows great but it was grown underwater for sure


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm guessing the issue is CO2.


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

OK anyone here growing them without CO2?

Just to clarify. I'm referring to ammania sp. 'bonsai' not rotala rotundifolia


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

CannaBrain said:


> Hm... r. indica grows like a weed for me both emersed and immersed. If it had been grown emersed, the leaves will be much more round (indian tooth cup) and thick.


The leaves of true _Rotala indica_ are always round. Sounds like you have rotundifolia.


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## CannaBrain (Oct 3, 2008)

Tinanti said:


> The leaves of true _Rotala indica_ are always round. Sounds like you have rotundifolia.


Yes, you're right I must have rotundifolia. However, what I'm also referring to is the r. indica I sell at the greenhouse I work at during pond season, common name there is "indian tooth cup," and is sold as r. indica, however I've never bought any... yet. Looks like the real deal emersed at least. 

However, now I'm confused. Is the plant in question actually in the genus _rotala_ or _ammania_? _rotala_ correct?


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

_Rotala indica_ = Ammania sp. "bonsai"

"Rotala indica" is a misnomer for a red Rotala sp.


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

This is true rotala indica (amm. Bonsai) in the middle of the tank.the rotundifolia is on the left amidst ludwiga..


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

CannaBrain said:


> Yes, you're right I must have rotundifolia. However, what I'm also referring to is the r. indica I sell at the greenhouse I work at during pond season, common name there is "indian tooth cup," and is sold as r. indica, however I've never bought any... yet. Looks like the real deal emersed at least.


That is the emersed for of _Rotala rotundifolia_, mislabeled. 



CannaBrain said:


> However, now I'm confused. Is the plant in question actually in the genus _rotala_ or _ammania_? _rotala_ correct?


_Rotala_. _Ammannia_ have inflorescences called cymes at the leaf nodes (of 3 flowers, so six flowers total at each node). _Rotala_ have them as terminal spikes (as in real rotundifolia), small axillary spikes (sometimes indica) or as is most often the case (including indica), single flowers at the nodes. _Ammannia_ was just totally wrong.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Just to clarify something. I bought some of what was called indica at one time
and it had thin long leaves, turned pink at the top two or three inches once the plant grew to the top and turned and went across the top. I'd say if you wanted a comparison for the leaves it looked a lot like Anacharis in leaf shape and overall size.
First question I might have is how high is the light. Any Rotala like higher light than low.
A couple like Rotun do OK in the lower light(I presume that this is what I actually had)
but What I have now seems to prefer higher. I have a few stems of what is supposed to be Magenta. I'll be waiting to see the picture(s) that you put up.


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

brooksie321 said:


> This is true rotala indica (amm. Bonsai) in the middle of the tank.the rotundifolia is on the left amidst ludwiga..
> View attachment 437241


Gorgeous... I hate you.


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

anastasisariel said:


> Gorgeous... I hate you.


Hahah. Get that a lot.. it stays low, havnt trimmed it in a year.. pm me and I'll send you a huge runner.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

brooksie321 said:


> Hahah. Get that a lot.. it stays low, havnt trimmed it in a year.. pm me and I'll send you a huge runner.


Question on this. I had it previously and wasn't growing well due to various reasons, all corrected now. I just bought 15 stems to get started again.

You said you have a huge runner? These throw runners off under the substrate or did you mean side shoot? Mine grew side shoots, but never saw anything close to a runner.


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

bsantucci said:


> Question on this. I had it previously and wasn't growing well due to various reasons, all corrected now. I just bought 15 stems to get started again.
> 
> You said you have a huge runner? These throw runners off under the substrate or did you mean side shoot? Mine grew side shoots, but never saw anything close to a runner.


It grows a stem that crawls under the substrate and sprouts new growth every half inch or so..
Bml,.co2, modified pps pro, flourite sand with clay root tabs and osmocote plus.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

brooksie321 said:


> It grows a stem that crawls under the substrate and sprouts new growth every half inch or so..
> Bml,.co2, modified pps pro, flourite sand with clay root tabs and osmocote plus.


Very cool. Kinda like my Bacopa does. 

I guess cause mine weren't growing great they never did this. I'm assuming I'll have better results this time. Thanks for the info!


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

Here is the pic. Hoping it just needs time to adapt. It might have gotten cold. Weather was garbage here when it was shipped but had a heat pack.
The thing is that the plant really didn't arrive in good shape. It may have deteriorated a little since I've had it but not very much. 
Combination of getting cold during shipping and adapting to new tank I suppose.








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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I now see what I think is most of the issue. Too short.
I have a stem(one) that was just an inch when I planted it. Now I have cut it a couple
of times but it took months for it to get any size to it. Just have patience/w it and it should start back after it acclimates well AND gets some new better roots going for it's self. For some dumb reason I seem to like to rehab badly messed up plants instead of just throwing them away and getting new ones. This one took four or five months to grow another inch.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=14289&pictureid=52354
You have a lot more to start/w than I did. That ram snail in the picture is slightly smaller than a nickle.
Not at all sure about how much immersed comes into play here but that doesn't at all look like the plant that was sold to me as indica. But still getting the impression that I had Rotundafolia.
I will say that you should have spread them a bit more. But let them grow some new roots for now rather than dig them up again as it's not bad, just not as good as it could be. When these get 4 or 5 inches taller(if not sooner) they will send up new shoots. Side shoots should start also. New growth at the tops of these will likely be smaller and may look deformed. The new shoots will be much better. After those new ones get to the top you can(if you want to remove the strange growth)cut the old stems off just above the sub.


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## CannaBrain (Oct 3, 2008)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> _Rotala indica_ = Ammania sp. "bonsai"
> 
> "Rotala indica" is a misnomer for a red Rotala sp.


No, after more reading, I don't believe that is correct. Ammania sp. 'bonsai' is the misnomer for true rotala indica. The issue is that r. rotundifolia has been/is being sold as r. indica, and true r. indica has only recently become more available.



Tinanti said:


> That is the emersed for of _Rotala rotundifolia_, mislabeled.


I've grown my r. rotundifolia emersed on many occasions and it does not look like the plant that I'm referring to. It may actually have been true r. indica, but won't know until I can try to get my hands on it this spring. 

Anyways, sorry to threadjack. From the picture, looks like the leaves so far are definitely more oblong than those of my rotundifolia. Hope for you it's what it's supposed to be.


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

It doesn't matter Canna so please don't start this debate.  Common names can vary which is why I have included the only thing that does-the plants scientific name. 

People sell rotala rotundifolia as rotala indica and it honestly just causes confusion. Most people know what Rotala Rotundifolia is, but then someone grows it in high light and it turns pink and yellowish. Some then think its a totally different plant (rotala indica). I have both plants in my tank so not concerned that I have the 'right' plant. I don't claim Tropica as the ultimate authority but they agree with what we are saying here.


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## CannaBrain (Oct 3, 2008)

anastasisariel said:


> Common names can vary which is why I have included the only thing that does-the plants scientific name.


But It's not an ammania. It IS rotala, and I've been using their scientific names, not their common ones. That's all I'm saying.

Before you edited your OP, you were not sure whether you had r. indica or rotundifolia, since you weren't sure if it was grown emersed, so.. seems to me that you were concerned at first. What debate am I starting? I am agreeing w/ what they say too, pointing it out to solcielo, as he said it's ammania. From tropica's website:



> Rotala 'Bonsai' - (*Previously* called Ammania sp. ‘Bonsai’)


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

anastasisariel,
I believe that if you look at reply/post # 20...
I am relatively sure that if you just give it more time the sprouts...will.
It wouldn't be the first time I've seen short stems take a long(as in months) time
to start growing again.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

CannaBrain said:


> But It's not an ammania. It IS rotala, and I've been using their scientific names, not their common ones. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> Before you edited your OP, you were not sure whether you had r. indica or rotundifolia, since you weren't sure if it was grown emersed, so.. seems to me that you were concerned at first. What debate am I starting? I am agreeing w/ what they say too, pointing it out to solcielo, as he said it's ammania. From tropica's website:


_Rotala indica_ is traded as Ammania sp. "bonsai". What is traded as "Rotala indica" is not scientifically R. indica but a red R. rotundifolia sp. 



Solcielo lawrencia said:


> _Rotala indica_ = Ammania sp. "bonsai"
> 
> "Rotala indica" is a misnomer for a red Rotala sp.


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

CannaBrain said:


> But It's not an ammania. It IS rotala, and I've been using their scientific names, not their common ones. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> Before you edited your OP, you were not sure whether you had r. indica or rotundifolia, since you weren't sure if it was grown emersed, so.. seems to me that you were concerned at first. What debate am I starting? I am agreeing w/ what they say too, pointing it out to solcielo, as he said it's ammania. From tropica's website:


Huh? I have always been certain the plant I have is ammania. My concern was that it may have been grown emersed. I have both plants in my tank, Rotala rotundifolia and Ammania sp. "bonsai". When I first got my Rotala rotundifolia it was green and looked typical. Now it is pink to red (brighter lighting maybe higher phosphates as well). I sold some at an auction and labeled it correctly (rotala rotundifolia) and another seller had theirs labeled 'rotala indica'. Pretty sure mine was redder and pinker than theirs, but both our plants were simply rotala rotundifolia.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

Not an _Ammannia_. Definitely not. I have explained the difference in post #12.


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

Canna, now I see why you thought my edit was my uncertainty. I actually did the edit to avoid any confusion about which plant I was speaking.


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## CannaBrain (Oct 3, 2008)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> _Rotala indica_ is traded as Ammania sp. "bonsai". What is traded as "Rotala indica" is not scientifically R. indica but a red R. rotundifolia sp.


Not disagreeing here, I think we're all on the same page now. I just think perhaps we should all (all hobbyists, I mean, not just us in this thread) stop referring to it as ammania at this point. As the original op was, I think true rotala indica is indeed the most accurate.


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