# melting Java Fern



## kornphlake (Dec 4, 2007)

All this time I thought Java Fern would survive a nuclear holocaust but somehow I've managed to kill it off. I've got some in my 10g that has DIY CO2, ~25watts (two 15 watt spiral bulbs, I know people like to say they aren't efficient) I've been using AP root tabs, but recently switched to Jobe's fertilizer spikes, it seems like they aren't dissolving into the water column as fast as the AP roottabs did so I just started dosing fleet enema and KNO3 and flourish comprehensive. Before adding KNO3 I was measuring about 5 ppm nitrates, I bumped it up to about 10ppm as I've read java fern loves nitrates. 


Now that you know what I've got, the problem is that my java fern is turning brown and dying. It starts in spots then eventually consumes the entire leaf, I've got 4 plants that have suffered, on the smallest all the leaves have died. I've had trouble getting consistency out of my DIY CO2 and I suspect that may be the problem I went from about 20 bubbles per minute to about 5 bubbles per minute, no matter what I do with the mix, swapping bottles, air lines etc, that's the best I can get at the moment. I've had some algae but not so much that I'm ready to do a black out, I want to try and get the ferts and CO2 under control if at all possible. 

Other plants in the aquarium include valisineria, rotala rotundfoilia and ludwigia palastrus, cryptocoryne wendtii and some java moss. None have shown the stellar growth they did when my CO2 was working at peak performance. But none are dying like the Java Fern. What can I do to fix it?


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## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

First of all, how did you plant them? I'm going to assume you know that Java Fern is a rhizome plant which should be attached to driftwood or rocks and not buried in the substrate.

Old leaves turn brown, it happens. Cut them off and new ones will grow... worked for me.


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

Root Tabs are surpose to be disolving into the water column. They are surpose to be for root feeders. You talking about root tabs means that you probably buried your java fern Rhizome?


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## kornphlake (Dec 4, 2007)

No, my java fern is attached to rocks, I haven't been using any fertilizers in the water column just in the substrate.

It's not like one or two leaves have turned brown, they're all turning brown, if I prune them off I'll have nothing left.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

wow, you've managed to kill an immortal plant.
Isn't Jobe's fertilizer meant for terrestrials? What's in it?

And root tabs are meant to not dissolve quickly.
You can overdose a plant with certain nutrients. That's the only thing I can think of that's killing for fern. Try doing a massive water change and cut the photo period back to only a few hours until the tank stabilizes. You will have to cut all the leaves.. They won't heal..


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## kornphlake (Dec 4, 2007)

I'll do a good water change and see where that gets me. Do you think less light would help the ferns or is that more a recommendation for the algae?

Jobe's fertilizer is meant for houseplants, it's got the same stuff as my planttabs had nitrogen, phosphate and potassium. The reason I switched is because in Jobe's fertilizer nitrogen is derived from urea which I understand turns into ammonia in water, but for whatever reason it seems to stay in the substrate and get processed into nitrate, with the AP planttabs nitrogen is derived from ammoniacal nitrogen, I could measure ammonia leeching into the water column. You can search here for Jobe's and you'll find a bunch of people using them it's not like I just dumped something in my tank I thought "might" work.

The Java Fern death occured before I switched to using Jobe's fertilizer


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

yikes... I'd stay away from urea.. Both plants and fish will die from ammonia poisoning.. I guess the fern is extra sensitive. I would vacuum the substrate and do a massive water change. You're just checking for ammonia in the water.. You're not checking for it in the substrate.

Stick with plant tabs & dry ferts or the commercial aquatic plant ferts.

Just leave the lights off completely until you fix this.. It's more for the algae.

I guess you can throw away the fern and start over with a new one.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You know, I thought my java fern was a goner once, too. My yoyo had turned my entire tank into a mud sludge for more than a week and I couldn't get all the mud off the leaves. I pulled out almost all the leaves- only had maybe one or two left on the rhizome that were about 1/2way gone. I figured they would turn w/in the week and I'd just throw the whole thing away.

Insead, the fern started producing plantlets on the leaves, and actually sprouted more leaves from the rhizome. Growth has been really slow, but over the past year I think I now have about 20-30 java fern plantlets from that rhizome?

Moral of the story- if the rhizome isn't damaged, I think the fern may just surprise you!


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## Corin (Jan 9, 2009)

I thought I would restimulate this thread rather than starting a new one. My ferns in my 20 gallon are starting to die just like this, with all the leaves turning brown and dying. On the sickest plant even all the leaves on the two plantlets are beginning to die. I was wondering if anyone had any new ideas about how to stop it.
I upped the lighting 3 weeks ago from a 20W 2800K to a 55W 8000K after adding many more plants to the tank (java and anubias). To keep up with the increased need for nutrients, I have been adding Flourish (the "comprehensive") twice a week and adding CO2 through Jungle fizz factory to maintain at least 10 ppm, calculated by monitoring pH and kH. My substrate is plain gravel, my plants are lightly anchored and sitting on top of the gravel. I have been trying to manage algae overgrowth (brown then green hair).
Initially, some of the new plant growth on the anubias nanas was coming in very very light in comparison to other leaves so I started adding Flourish Iron, however my iron test keeps reading 0ppm no matter how often I add it so I am not sure it is accessible to the plants. My nitrates dropped to 0ppm but I more than doubled the number of fish (including adding two juvenile rubbernose plecos) in the tank a week ago so I expected it to keep up. I don't know whether I should change the lighting back or if I have a nutrient problem.

I posted images here but they don't show themselves probably because they are huge, here they are.
http://www.geocities.com/corin_li/forum/CIMG3196.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/corin_li/forum/CIMG3191.JPG

http://us.share.geocities.com/corin_li/forum/CIMG3196.JPG


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## manini (Oct 18, 2007)

I've had that issue before. What I did was pick off all of the infected leaves and treat the tank with erythromycine. That seemed to slow the the spread of the disease.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i had this.
i thought it may have been Fe overdose but i doubt it.
i still think its some kind of infection (viral or bacterial, i dont think its fungal).
remove the infected leaves. it will probably consume all the leaves, so you can just cut it bear. then the plant will regrow new leaves from the rhizome (may take some time, depends on the specific case). if the young leaves get infected, cut them off. they will start growing in healthy, and the plant will regrow and be fine.


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## Corin (Jan 9, 2009)

Should I put all my sick plants in a quarantine tank so I don't stress the fish? My quarentine tank does not have the lighting (incandescent 10g hood) to support plants and, with no fish in quarantine, probably doesn't have the nitrates/phosphates either.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

you dont have to bother, unless there is something clearly wrong with the plant. if you are worried about snails, then do a dip.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

When you have high light you have to provide a complete menu of nutients, even for slow growing plants. That means you need to dose with nitrates, potassium, phosphates, trace elements, possibly calcium and magnesium, and adequate carbon dioxide. If you don't do that, the most competitive plants in the tank will consume all of the available fertilizers, and the less competitive will just die.


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## airborne_r6 (May 2, 2008)

Thanks said:


> I'm going to assume you know that Java Fern is a rhizome plant which should be attached to driftwood or rocks and not buried in the substrate.


Uh...yeah I totally knew that....quickly unburying rhizome...mine is not buried. 

Funny the things you learn just browsing this place.


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## CKJ (Oct 3, 2008)

My java ferns are burried in the substrate but not the rhizome. My roots have readily attached themselves to my substrate gravel so anytime I want to move them a bit of substrate comes up but wherever I put them they are already weighted down so that works out good for me!

lol

Good luck!

Cindy


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## Corin (Jan 9, 2009)

I trimmed most of the sick leaves, dropped back down to 1wpg of 2800K, stopped adding CO2 and such frequent nutrients, and have done some water changes in the past few weeks to remove anything I might have ODed on as kornphlake suggested that it helped. 
I opted to put the java ferns in QT after that anyhow to treat them with erythromyocin in case it was pathogenic. The leaves have stopped dying off (though honestly I think it may have stopped without the antibiotic). I have some leaves growing plantlets very slowly, and some new leaves coming in on the rhizome. On even the smallest new shoots you can see there is a problem though. The tips of the shoots are a slightly transparent light brownish-green and curled up. The leaves continue to grow fatter and to about 2.5 inches tall, then pretty much stop growing. @[email protected] suggested that I cut off any new growth that gets infected, but I don't think these are. Anybody know if this is normal for initial regrowth after a sickness/trauma and will it go back to normal eventually?

The original sickness:









Largest of the new growth:











@[email protected] said:


> i had this.
> i thought it may have been Fe overdose but i doubt it.
> i still think its some kind of infection (viral or bacterial, i dont think its fungal).
> remove the infected leaves. it will probably consume all the leaves, so you can just cut it bear. then the plant will regrow new leaves from the rhizome (may take some time, depends on the specific case). if the young leaves get infected, cut them off. they will start growing in healthy, and the plant will regrow and be fine.


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