# Salt with Guppies?



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

yup, no right or wrong to this. Guppies will adapt to both params. They are found naturally in both waters.


----------



## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

If I had soft water,,I would use marine salt at 1/2 dose suggested for marine tank. .
As my water is fairly hard,,I don't use any salt and have hoard's of the little bugger's right now.
It is the calcium/magnesium in marine salt that buffer's the water upward's that the fish thrive in.(thrive in hard alkaline water's)
With few exception's,,livebearer's don't normally do well for long with GH below 10degree's or pH below 7.5 IME


----------



## amcoffeegirl (May 26, 2009)

I have used salt in the past or if a see any signs of distress. Aquarium salt can be used with some Tropicals. It is supposed to help the fishes slime coat.


----------



## Kat12 (Aug 11, 2013)

I don't salt due to they are kept with snails so can't use salt.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Best I can tell, salt seems to have a slight beneficial effect if - and only if - guppies (or other fish) are stressed by something.

It is probably most beneficial to inexperienced aquarists, who haven't yet mastered cycles and water changes; as salt helps lessen the effect of nitrites and other toxins. And for fish undergoing repeated stresses and parameter changes, like those passing through a LFS.

It can also sometimes provide aid to a fish suffering from an undiagnosed ailment, or one that is weak due to poor genetics or prior injury.

Perhaps in very soft water, salt may be useful. I've kept guppies in water with 0°GH and 8°KH, at pH down to 6.5, with no issues. And if water hardness is a problem, assuming plants are present, then that would be better solved by boosting the hardness rather than salinity. Our tanks are now generally kept at a minimum of 2°GH.

Back when I regularly used salt, I think I started with "Doc Wellfish" brand. It appeared to be just rock salt. So when I ran out, I switched to rock salt, and it seemed to work the same. Table salt is _not_ the same though, as it contains an aluminum-based anticaking agent which is probably better off avoided.

Note that neon tetras and otos are very sensitive to rapid changes in salinity. Cardinals probably are too. Drip acclimation is highly recommended when moving them into an environment with different salinity.


----------



## Cynical Fish Guy (Feb 19, 2012)

DarkCobra said:


> Best I can tell, salt seems to have a slight beneficial effect if - and only if - guppies (or other fish) are stressed by something.
> 
> It is probably most beneficial to inexperienced aquarists, who haven't yet mastered cycles and water changes; as salt helps lessen the effect of nitrites and other toxins. And for fish undergoing repeated stresses and parameter changes, like those passing through a LFS.
> 
> ...



TABLE SALE contains IODINE in the US--Aquarium Salt and Rock salt are both just NaCl--Sodium Chloride--Table Salt has no anti-caking agent in it other than added Iodine.-When salt breaks it forms cubes-It will cake if you dissolve it in water and then boil the water until it is gone--or crystalize.


----------



## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

they do not require it like mollies do if that is what you are asking. if i see fin issues (have a rather mean 3/4 black male that like to nip fins on the other) i dip the ones that are affected in a salt dip for about a minute. i use aquarium salt and mix as much into the little cup of tank water that will dissolve and net the fish i want in stick net and fish into the cup.


----------



## SmellsFishy (Dec 9, 2013)

Guppies will be fine with or without salt. I've seen people keep guppies in a reef tank with clown fish (pretty cool)! So I think salt won't hurt them at all.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Cynical Fish Guy said:


> TABLE SALE contains IODINE in the US--Aquarium Salt and Rock salt are both just NaCl--Sodium Chloride--Table Salt has no anti-caking agent in it other than added Iodine.-When salt breaks it forms cubes-It will cake if you dissolve it in water and then boil the water until it is gone--or crystalize.


Wrong. Granulated salt will pick up moisture from the atmosphere and cake. Unless you add an anticaking agent. Or you do like the old-timers and put some rice grains in your shaker.

I don't use iodized salt for food anymore, so I had to pull an image of Morton Iodized from the web:










Wasn't aluminum-based as I thought, but there is still an anticaking agent. Plus dextrose. Both of which are present in higher quantities than iodine, based on order of listing.

Checking the Morton Salt and Haim Sea Salt in my pantry, both uniodized, both list the same anticaking agent. 

As for the iodine, on occasion I've dosed it deliberately to help with shrimp survival issues. So it's not necessarily a deadly toxin to be avoided in any quantity. Adding 2 tbsp. of iodized salt to 10G of water results in about 0.1ppm iodine concentration, if my quick math is correct. Safe? Dunno. I found a reference to channel catfish being killed by 8ppm.

But if you don't need it, better not to add it. Unless you're in a pinch, better to use aquarium salt, or rock salt. Not table salt, regardless of whether it's iodized or not.


----------



## Cynical Fish Guy (Feb 19, 2012)

cool--I learned something--Natural sea salt is Natural Sea Salt. It looks like it depends on the brand, and what type of salt it is. Kosher Salt, Morton Salt, Aquarium Salt.--Thanks, I learn something everyday!

Sodium Bicarbonnate-NaCo3 also looks to be a feature of Sea Salt and well as the Sodium Silicate--Sand is silicon, so it only makes sense some of the silicon would be with the sea salt, especially if it has anti-caking abilities.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Cynical Fish Guy said:


> cool--I learned something--Natural sea salt is Natural Sea Salt. It looks like it depends on the brand, and what type of salt it is.


Could well be. Haven't tried some of the finer varieties yet, for some salt can be a truly gourmet ingredient. But who would waste the good stuff in an aquarium. 

My tapwater is loaded with sodium bicarbonate, which increases KH. And palatability, or so I hear, as some bottled water producers add it back into what was once highly purified water for that reason.

Started off as question about guppies, now I'm craving salty food. :hihi:


----------



## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

It was always told to me Aquarium salt is pH neutral, and aquarium salt has neither calcium nor magnesium, and thus won't change the hardness. Marine salt and epsom salts will, but not aquarium salt. Is this not true? I use Aquarium Salt in my tank once a month with a WC and have for years. I noticed better color from the fish which I am sure it is due to the better oxygenation from the better gill function. I have kept guppies in a tank with aquarium salt with no ill effect.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

As far as I know:

Aquarium salt is just expensive rock salt. Almost exclusively NaCl (sodium chloride). Sea salt is the same. It is pH neutral and doesn't affect hardness.

Marine salt is a mix of all sorts of stuff.

There's also something called "livebearer salt" or "shimmy salt". Of the ones I've examined that listed ingredients, I recall magnesium sulfate being a primary ingredient. Which will alter GH.


----------



## Narelle (Dec 6, 2013)

DarkCobra said:


> [...]
> As for the iodine, on occasion I've dosed it deliberately to help with shrimp survival issues. So it's not necessarily a deadly toxin to be avoided in any quantity. Adding 2 tbsp. of iodized salt to 10G of water results in about 0.1ppm iodine concentration, if my quick math is correct. Safe? Dunno. I found a reference to channel catfish being killed by 8ppm.
> [...]


Just wanted to point out that catfish are scaleless fish, so they're sensitive to things like added salt. Everywhere I've read says to absolutely not add salt to a tank with cats. You also have to be careful about medicating them, most medicines aren't safe for scaleless fish either. So the channel cat shouldn't be much indication of how salt affects scaled fish. I've used aquarium salt sparingly for disease and stress and have yet to see adverse affects on my fish. And I've kept guppies and endlers. My plants, on the other hand, get very unhappy with me when there's salt in their water. ^^;;

Not saying I'm an expert or anything though, still only a couple years into the hobby. Have done a lot of reading on catfish, though, since my favorite of my fish is a cat.


----------



## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I love when one question leads to a whole learning experience.


----------



## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

aquarium salt is a clean form of rock salt. and when i say rock salt i thing of the bags we used to use when making ice cream. i remember there being black and grey on the salt. and then to add to the mix epsom salt lol. that can be used as a treatment as well. hehehehe but no i dont add it to the water unless there is illness. i use salt as a med not an additive


----------



## Art by Stef* (Jan 27, 2013)

I agree with you wicca. Med, not additive.
Although, when I hear "rock salt", I think of the Pennsylvania Turnpike in Winter


----------



## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

Narelle said:


> Just wanted to point out that catfish are scaleless fish, so they're sensitive to things like added salt. Everywhere I've read says to absolutely not add salt to a tank with cats. You also have to be careful about medicating them, most medicines aren't safe for scaleless fish either. So the channel cat shouldn't be much indication of how salt affects scaled fish. I've used aquarium salt sparingly for disease and stress and have yet to see adverse affects on my fish. And I've kept guppies and endlers. My plants, on the other hand, get very unhappy with me when there's salt in their water. ^^;;
> 
> Not saying I'm an expert or anything though, still only a couple years into the hobby. Have done a lot of reading on catfish, though, since my favorite of my fish is a cat.


Ah yeah, forgot about that. That is true, you can't use the Aquarium Salt with scaleless fish. They will shoot you the bird when you do and not be happy. 

What kind of effects does using this have in plants? I love using this stuff but never had to worry about the plants.


----------



## twentypoundtabby (Dec 7, 2013)

I bred fancy guppies for a couple of decades and never used salt. Since my water is soft I did put in some oyster shell to increase the calcium content of the water, but that was it. Having lots of live plants such as elodea, hornwort or water sprite always seemed to contribute greatly to the health of my guppies as well.


----------



## Narelle (Dec 6, 2013)

Texan78 said:


> Ah yeah, forgot about that. That is true, you can't use the Aquarium Salt with scaleless fish. They will shoot you the bird when you do and not be happy.
> 
> What kind of effects does using this have in plants? I love using this stuff but never had to worry about the plants.


"Very unhappy" was probably a bit of an exaggeration. Mine stopped pearling, leaves drooped a little and looked a bit yellower. Tips of my crypts melted a bit. Nothing really major or anything. They bounce back. I am new to plants though, so this is just what I saw after I've used salt since I started adding plants. Might have been other factors involved, though most of the plants had been in the tank for quite awhile before I salted.


----------



## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

most plants can tolerate a tad bit of salt. they do not really like it in quantities that will medicate a fish though. some get droopy and things like hornwort can die from it. most plants will live though it when medicating but some dont. most "breeders" or the ones i know of tend to use bare bottom tanks and maybe a few potted plants so they can move them if need be


----------



## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

I don't know about guppies, but just my two cents on salt for freshwater fish; I once had a zebra danio get this freaky little isopod-looking parasite on it. I didn't have any parasite meds with me, so I put him in full-strength saltwater for about three minutes. Aside from the usual "ohmigosh help me mayday I'm in a CUP" reaction, he didn't seem distressed, and the parasite dropped off dead after a minute or two. I've used it a couple of other times when I spot something that looks like a parasite, and it seems to work pretty well, since I've never had whatever the culprit was actually come back. In short; freshwater parasites die if you put the fish in saltwater for a few minutes.


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Remove & dip/bath the fish. That will help protect the plants from the salt.

Salt bath water is, I feel, the best 1st step treatment for most fish maladies. It strips the slime coat and the parasites. Dip times run from 3min to 10min.

I've used it in concentrations on 1.05 to 1.20SG depending on the fish.
ie. rummy nose 1.05, Orandas 1.12, chiclids 1.20. Soft bodied fish like loaches should be dipped no longer than 3min.

All fish should be closely monitored while being dipped.


----------



## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, I've been using salt (1tablespoon per 10g) with my newly dropped fry and I'm not seeing any clamped fins. So, either they wouldn't have had it, or the salt is keeping it away- however since it gives me peace of mind, I'll continue to use it as a precaution.


----------



## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

just go slow when getting them used to full fresh again as adults. few 10% changes untill all water has been changed. not sure if it would shock them after growing up with it to move them to a tank with out it. glad the new ones dont have it


----------

