# Angelfish not eating, no visible signs of disease



## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

Took the parents out of the breeding tank after the fry were free swimming (mom wanted to eat them) and put back in main tank. All other fish are fine, including the female. No abnormal water conditions or poor acclimation back in. Won't eat, lethargic, and just kind of floats around the tank at various heights. I can't see any obvious markings or disease. Any idea or help would be appreciated.


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## vigilanterepoman (Mar 16, 2018)

Rhavinity said:


> Won't eat, lethargic, and just kind of floats around the tank at various heights.


What are you feeding them? Have you tried live foods?


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

They tore into frozen worms, brine shrimp, the occasional flake, and they graze on the blanched zucchini or green beans. Now he won't eat anything. He just looks at it.


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## vigilanterepoman (Mar 16, 2018)

Rhavinity said:


> They tore into frozen worms, brine shrimp, the occasional flake, and they graze on the blanched zucchini or green beans. Now he won't eat anything. He just looks at it.


Is there any indication of bloating? Perhaps he is constipated?


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

I haven't seen him bloated. He just gently swims around the tank, with very little energy. Before I moved him back to the main tank, he darted an anything that came in the water. Very frustrating. He has the most personality of them all.


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## cryptopi (Jan 5, 2018)

In my experience, I think the parents are upset because they lost their babies. Raise the temperature to 82F and wait two days. They will start eating again. Don’t worry about the warm temperature because they can tolerate the high 80’s temperature


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The lethargy ( floating around tank) indicates more than a minor issue of simply not eating because of breeding behaviors. It often indicates an internal bacterial infection, which is usually secondary to an underlying condition: parasites, environmental conditions, unsuitable tank mates.

Some things to consider: 
Have you noticed any white, translucent or stringy feces in this fish or others?
How long has this fish not eaten?
Any added fish to tank in last 6 weeks? Any other loses?
What are your water parameters: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. I know you said were fine, but, what are those numbers? 
Temperature?
Tank size, other occupants?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Rhavinity said:


> Took the parents out of the breeding tank after the fry were free swimming (mom wanted to eat them) and put back in main tank. All other fish are fine, including the female. No abnormal water conditions or poor acclimation back in. Won't eat, lethargic, and just kind of floats around the tank at various heights. I can't see any obvious markings or disease. Any idea or help would be appreciated.


Hi Rhavinity,

Did you confirm that water parameters between the two tanks were about the same, especially the pH?


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

It was within .2 of each other, he was drip acclimated. That white spot on his tail, appears to be some sort of sac? It's definitely got some 3D to it. I originally thought it was just a coloring. There's also 2 on his dorsal fin. I tried searching anything with that type of description, and couldn't find anything. He's been in the hospital tank for a week now. Still swimming, but lethargic and not eating.


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

Water is at 84 right now. 
ph is 7.4, my LFS uses straight tap. My water is Half RO/Half Tap. Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0, Nitrate 10-15, GH 5, KH 4. I added 4 oto catfish in the last 6 weeks, but he was feeling like crap before then. No other losses. His other tankmates are 3 other angel, (who only fight when I change 50% of the water weekly, dumb) 4 kuhli loaches, a BN pleco, a pearl gourami, and the otos. This tank is a 75g. He's now on day 6 without eating. I tried treating him with a general medicine that covers some common fungus/bacterial infections with metroplex, and there is no response at all. I have NO idea what is going on, but he's a trooper. I feel bad I can't help him.


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## cryptopi (Jan 5, 2018)

Your angelfish might have white spot disease aka ich.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

cryptopi said:


> Your angelfish might have white spot disease aka ich.


Sorry, have to totally disagree on ich. If large enough for us to see, not ich. 
I might also lean toward it being a bit more attitude from a coupole wrong moves. Cichlids are highly intelligent fish and do know what's up. I can only guess but I would doubt the female eating the babies but it may have been that she was taking the wigglers into her mouth and moving them back to the group. Can't say without knowing the experience level of the OP but it is easy to panic and assume she is eating them. 
But then I never want to remove all the babies from cichlids as they do react badly to that. Think how long it will take for the migrant families to get back to normal? Half of them may become terrorists and the same can happen with cichlids. 
It has been noted that the fish react when water is changed. Think how traumatic it is when all their babies are taken and they have no idea where they went. 
I would continue to watch the suspect white spots as they could be something but for feeding, I might try some garlic. Watch carefully for bloating as well but a drop or two of the juice from garlic may trigger eating, even if they are bloated. The tiny bottle of crushed garlic used for cooking does what I need.


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

I've had a batch of babies before, not with this particular pair though. He pretty much wasn't into the whole thing after he was done fertilizing. Mom did all the fanning. I know she was eating them, because every time I went in there, she'd panic and gobble them up. I went from 150 or so eggs, to about 50 swimmers. She wasn't moving them in her mouth. He just stared at her and turned around and looked up for food. I don't recall seeing those white blobs before on the fins until he started getting lethargic and not eating. I will try the garlic. No idea what those 3 sacs are though.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Rhavinity said:


> I've had a batch of babies before, not with this particular pair though. He pretty much wasn't into the whole thing after he was done fertilizing. Mom did all the fanning. I know she was eating them, because every time I went in there, she'd panic and gobble them up. I went from 150 or so eggs, to about 50 swimmers. She wasn't moving them in her mouth. He just stared at her and turned around and looked up for food. I don't recall seeing those white blobs before on the fins until he started getting lethargic and not eating. I will try the garlic. No idea what those 3 sacs are though.


Okay, sounds like a case of new parents or sometimes they just don't get it right. Lots of small stuff we don't see or think important but they feel necessary to do the job. Any chance you might have taken some pictures to compare the small points on for before and after? I find I can look at a fish a hundred times and still not really see the details but with taking lots of pictures, I can sometimes look back and see something was/wasn't there before. With digital, I take lots of pictures and then blow them away if they are no longer useful. White stuff is something to watch, for sure.


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

I should just leave in the hospital tank then until he weathers the storm or dies? At least if I knew what those "sacs" were, I could try and help. I've ran through the doses of Metroplex, so its about time to pull the medicine out; its not changing things anyways.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Let's talk about the white sacs, maybe? Is it the white spots showing on the tail and lower back portion of the dorsal fin? Doctoring by photo is really a hazardous area but those seem to be something I might want to look over much closer. How do you feel about catching this fish to do some really close examination? Does it sound practical to catch him to see if the white is a soft fuzzy thing like fungus might be or is it possible to be an external parasite hanging on? Thinking that it might be worth the trauma and stress to the fish if you can tell more what is going on. Since parasites come an almost unlimited number of types, I might simply try scraping them off if they seem to be something just hanging on the outside. That would also have to include a plan to watch those spots carefully for any follow up disease in the resulting wounds?? 
Just a thought of action.


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

Yes, that's where it is. Its not responding to any anti fungus medicine. I have thought to be some parasite, that maybe was dorment until the tank move. Its just a pure guess. I thought about using tweezers to pull it off, but it appears to me on both sides of the fin. Same for the caudal. If it is some type of parasite, would a salt dip @ 3% maybe get them to fall off? I tried a little garlic, and that didn't work. 

There was some other posts, several years old from other forums, that had similar symptoms, but no one was ever to diagnose it.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Kind of like it is "in" the fins rather than "on" them? This seems silly but meant to prompt your thinking rather than accusing or doubting you. But then how sure are you this is new and not something that may have been there longer? There are times when I see odd looking spots on fins and they seem to never change but never go away either. I have wondered at times if it was simply something like scar tissue or some other small defect. If it were that case, I might just wait and watch it for some time. 
No good ideas, really but the salt idea might work if it is some parasite. I might try holding the fish and swab a strong solution just on the spots with a Q-tip, maybe? That might let you give the parasite a strong dose while not hitting the whole fish. Maybe asking a lot since holding a flopping fish is not an easy deal! Got to say, parasite treating is not one of my big things, so maybe others can throw in better ideas?


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## Aquadoggy (Jun 27, 2018)

Water change daily and try metrogly 400 tab 

Sent from my LND-AL30 using Tapatalk


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

For external parasites you would see some indication of rubbing on objects, darting, shimmying, gasping, etc...
I would think this would be something that you would notice? Have you? 

Also, these affected sac-like areas are larger in picture- no parasite is that big in freshwater aquaria except Argulas ( fish lice) or Anchor worm. From picture doesn't look like either. But, you might look at a picture on internet.

Does the area look at all filamentous, thread-like? It looks very white to me and fluffy? Can you take an eye glass and look closer at it?
Is it, if not fluffy, more smooth in appearance?

What particular medications have you used so far and for how long?


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

Those spots are definitely smooth. It looks like its part of the fin, growing on both sides around 1 mm in height. I've tried a general cure, and metro. I'm at the end of the dosage, and that tank needs a water change also. Its not fish lice. If it gets to the point where nothing is working, I'm just going to pull one off and see what it is. I'm going to try the salt dip, because at some point, he's going to be too weak to do anything else.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

As far as external parasites, you have done very little to treat the fish. Metronidazole in Metroplex is for internal parasites and the Praziquazntel in General Cure will cure some external parasites, but certainly not all. And, parasites have different life-cycles, so like in Gill Flukes, you must treat for 21 days to rid the aquarium of the parasite.

I am thinking this may be Lymphocystitis, but not absolutely certain.

Before resorting to cutting on your fish I have a recommendation. Go to this website and post your issue: praquatics.com

This forum has some of the most knowledgeable, experienced people regarding aquarium fish disease- particularly angelfish.


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

Thats just the only medication I've tried. Without really knowing what it is, I didn't want to just make a buffet of meds in his water. I sent a post on the site you suggested. I appreciate that. Hoping I can get a direction on how to proceed next.


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