# New tank HELP



## robbob2112 (Oct 7, 2007)

Is your tank cycled? What are tha actual ammonia, nitrite, nitrate readings? 

Since you are have only had it setup for a couple of weeks and are having fish die, I assume it is not cycled. I wouldn't add any more fish until it is cycled... ammonia and nitrite read 0ppm and nitrate is on a slow but steady climb and you lower it with water changes.


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

*Tank*

It is cycled, the Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite are all at 0.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Nitrate should not be zero in a cycled tank.


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## robbob2112 (Oct 7, 2007)

The only way to cycle a tank in a couple of weeks is to move a good amount of filter media from an established tank and a keep a ammonia source in there or add enough fish to produce waste to keep the bacteria alive.

Cycle products typically in bottles typically don't work or have any live bacteria by the time it sits on a shelf for months. Biospira seems to be the exception to this, but only if it was kept refrigerated the whole time and is still within its fairly short shelf life.

Cycling with or without fish from new setup takes around 6 weeks. With fish is pretty hard on the fish.


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

That's what I get for listening to that Hack fo a store owner. I thought that was correct, but he insisted that I was good to go! 

On the bright side he is going to replace the fish I lost so far.

Is there any way to help out the fish at this point?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Lots of water changes. Feed smaller amounts as well to keep the waste levels low (will take longer to cycle, but will be less stressful on the fish)

Don't sweat it. You'll be fine.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Also, if you use products like Seachem Prime (as a dechlor), this will assist in neutralizing the ammonia (not with Nitrite though) or AmGuard


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

I am using Prime, in fact I was planning on doing a 30% water change tonight. Should I add Extra Prime to help the fish out?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Nah... use as reccomended. Are you seeing a bacteria outbreak? (cloudy water? sluggish fish?)

Psst... don't tell anyone, I just did a fish cycle and all worked out fine...Just do lots of water changes and like I said, feed small amounts


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

The fish aren't sluggish but they are really scared! T

hey hide in one corner all day and if someone walks even close to the tank they scatter! 

Should I add more fish to help them feel more comfortable in such a large tank?


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

No the last thing you want to do is add more fish to a non cycled tank


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

*Rex's Planted Tank guide*

I was reading Rex's Planted Tank guide, and it seems to indicate that the plants will prevent an amonia spike. Has anyone had success with it?


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## c_sking (Aug 4, 2008)

The only suggestion I have is to give the fish more places for security or cover 1/2 of the tank till they get more acclimated. I only suggest this because it sounds like you are truly worried about your fish witch is great.


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

I am picking up a ton of plants I got off aquabid tonight, so I should be able to give them a LOT more cover....

My fish are my main concern, they just hide in one back corner and shoot from one side to another in a panicked manner. I had visions of a school of cardinal tetras swimming around the tank and now you have to search them out.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

Don't worry about them being scared. They will get used to you and the tank. Great to have more plants coming. That will help a lot toward keeping any ammonia in check. If you are testing ammonia, or nitrite you can change water one day and dose with Prime the next. That is what I did with my ADA AS. It works well and your fish will be safe.

You might consider ordering fish online. You do have big shipping charges, but the fish are usually cheaper and healthier. If you get many at once (when you tank is cycled), it might be worth it.


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

*WOW Two pages!*

Does anyone have any suggestions on an online fish person? Drs. Foster and SMith are $$$$$$$$$$$$.

Tex Gal - Do you mean do an additional Prime dose the second day? I always add the Prime before I start adding in the tap water.


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

*small town life*

I did want to add this comment, I was unable to find ANY AMMONIA to do a fully fishless cycle, (did I mention that I live in a TINY town?) Wal-Mart didn't even hav anything!


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## robbob2112 (Oct 7, 2007)

I'd only add the prime at water change time in accordance with the instructions. i.e. drain 30~50%, add the amount of prime needed for the entire volume of the tank, fill back up from the tap... make sure the tap temperature is pretty close to the tank temp.

Prime is good stuff, it will lock up the ammonia and the nitrates in a form usable to plants and bacteria, but not toxic to fish. It throws most liquid nitrate test kits completely out of wack with false readings, but most test strips still work fine.

Cycling with plants can and does work, there seem to be a few possible pitfalls with algae bloom near the end. To avoid the ammonia spike with the plants they have to be well established and growing before you add fish. Then you add fish slowly and the ammonia never spikes much.

To late now, but you can fishless cycle by hanging a raw shrimp in the tank inside a mesh bag or pantyhose and let it rot to produce ammonia.

IF you have any friends with healthy tanks you can take about half their filter media from their filter and put it in your tank in your filter or near the intake. This seeds you cultures of the various nitrifying bacteria without having to wait on them to develop naturally. Taking up to half your friends media won't hurt his tank at all. The downside to this method is you get any bad bacteria from his tank as well which is why I don't like to take gravel or filter media from a fish store even if they will give it up. 

If none of your friends have tanks, you just get to wait it out and keep up the water changes so your fishes don't suffer overly much.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

stephm said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions on an online fish person? Drs. Foster and SMith are $$$$$$$$$$$$.
> 
> Tex Gal - Do you mean do an additional Prime dose the second day? I always add the Prime before I start adding in the tap water.


Yes, I meant to do an additional Prime dose on the 2nd day. That would only be if you had high ammonia. If you have no ammonia or nitrite then you don't have a problem. If you read on the bottle you will see that it talks about this method of dosing. 

I don't think that you will get accurate readings with the test strips. I have used them and then tested with API liquid test kits and also my pH controller. They do not test accurate. I calibrate my pH controller each month with a lab pH solution so I know it is correct.

If you are not getting healthy fish then perhaps it's not ammonia that is killing them. Maybe they are just unhealthy and one more move is too much for them. 

I guess this all hinges on whether your tank is cycled or not.....


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

Cardinal and neon tetras are very skittish (especially in a new home) as you've seen, and must have cover.

Even if you put silk or plastic plants in temporarily, or add a big bunch of weedy Wisteria, that will help them a lot.

And don't take any more advice from petstore employees.


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

I don't use test strips, I use the liquid test kits, will the Prime throw that off?


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

stephm said:


> I am picking up a ton of plants I got off aquabid tonight, .


When you are ready, since you are familiar with AB, you should be able to find some awesome fish there. Also here~ 
http://www.franksaquarium.com/

and here

http://anubiasdesign.com/

and here

http://www.corysrus.com/


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## robbob2112 (Oct 7, 2007)

stephm said:


> I don't use test strips, I use the liquid test kits, will the Prime throw that off?


 
It depends on the liquid test kit, it throws some completly out of whack and others work just fine. There are notes about it on seachem's website in the prime FAQ.


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

I use the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit...so hopefully it will show correctly.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

There are product sold for speeding up the cycling period.


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## stephm (Jun 23, 2008)

Well, it has been a week and there really hasn't been much change in the fish's behavior. I haven't lost any fish though, so I guess that's a good thing!

I am doing a water change tonight and I will test the water prior to that and let y'all know what I find.

The only real change is that I have a bit of hair like algea that I am trying to identify.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just saw this thread, not too much to add that hasn't been said, but I thought i'd throw in my $0.02 anyway 

Lots of live plants definitely helps both the cycle and helps the fish feel comfortable. Also, make sure you're testing ammonia/nitrIte every day while the tank cycles and if you see either of them go above .25-.5, do a small water change and then a large water change every few days (others may have different opinions, this has worked for me though and so far I haven't lost any fish while cycling a tank). I'm a fan of the "silent" cycle method that uses lots of plants to soak up nitrogenous waste. I've yet to achieve a fully (truly) silent cycle where I never see any ammonia spike, but i've added fish immediately to my tanks and only seen the ammonia get to .25 once or twice and then every 4-5 days instead of daily.

All that said, it sounds like things are going well in your tank now, glad to hear you haven't lost any more fish!

Oh and I second not using test strips....very unreliable...but since you use liquid test kits i suppose that's a moot point anyway :tongue:


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