# water filled bubble counter



## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

Just began CO2 injection on my nano 7gal tank yesterday with a paintball canister, Aquatek paintball regulator mini, GLA metal check valve, glass bubble counter, and finally Do!Aqua nano diffuser. 

The bubble counter was less than 1/2 filled with water when it was running yesterday. However, sometime after the CO2 was shut off last night, water flowed back into the line and filled up the bubble counter. It doesn't look like any water went beyond the counter.

Is this normal or is there a way to prevent the back flow?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Get a check valve.

The $2 plastic check valves at your LFS might remain functional for a few months.

The stainless steel Hong Kong generic check valves, which aren't much costlier, might last a month or two longer than the plastic ones.

I haven't had much success with Clippard check valves, either.

Top of the line is a Swagelok SS-4C-1/3 for inline, or SS-2C2-1/3 attached to the regulator. Also available in brass (substitute "B" for "SS").

I've heard decent things about these:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=32229&catid=489

And I'd like to try these:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=38670&catid=489

I've tried the first four, but haven't experimented with the usplastic types.

Install a check valve between the regulator and the bubble counter, and another on the other side of the bubble counter if you want (more isn't a bad idea with check valves). But the bubble counter filling up with water isn't a problem.


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

kevmo911 said:


> Install a check valve between the regulator and the bubble counter, and another on the other side of the bubble counter if you want (more isn't a bad idea with check valves). But the bubble counter filling up with water isn't a problem.


Thanks for the reply. I do have a GLA inline check valve installed currently between the regulator and bubble counter. 

If the back flow to the bubble counter isn't a concern, then I'm ok with it. 

I wasn't sure if maybe I set it up incorrectly. (can there be too much line between bubble counter and the diffuser? or does that matter with back flow?)


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

I think water flowing back into the bubble counter is a plus. You won't have to worry about refilling it. If the line is longer than you need, you will have more water to push out of the line. Not a big deal either, you could simply turn on the CO2 earlier to compensate. You regularly want to check that water is not seeping past the check valve towards the regulator. You could keep the regulator up hill from the check valve just in case. I've had water go past the check valve, that's why I mentioned it.


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

hbosman said:


> I think water flowing back into the bubble counter is a plus. You won't have to worry about refilling it. If the line is longer than you need, you will have more water to push out of the line. Not a big deal either, you could simply turn on the CO2 earlier to compensate. You regularly want to check that water is not seeping past the check valve towards the regulator. You could keep the regulator up hill from the check valve just in case. I've had water go past the check valve, that's why I mentioned it.



That's good to know. I think I'll move the CO2 tank so the check valve is below it, at least until I can get some longer tubing. Thanks for the info.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

bluestems said:


> That's good to know. I think I'll move the CO2 tank so the check valve is below it, at least until I can get some longer tubing. Thanks for the info.


Gravity doesn't work that way. If the aquarium is above the regulator, there will be pressure back toward the regulator, regardless of the position of a check valve. Functional check valves is the only fix.

But one other point - it's not always gas being forced back toward the cylinder. It's also that gas dissolving into the water, so the water level backtracks.


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

kevmo911 said:


> Gravity doesn't work that way. If the aquarium is above the regulator, there will be pressure back toward the regulator, regardless of the position of a check valve. Functional check valves is the only fix.
> 
> But one other point - it's not always gas being forced back toward the cylinder. It's also that gas dissolving into the water, so the water level backtracks.


I see, that makes sense. I've moved the CO2 cylinder to the desk next to the aquarium... but, I have this GLA check valve. Is that adequate if I should want to move the tank back down below the aquarium?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

bluestems said:


> I see, that makes sense. I've moved the CO2 cylinder to the desk next to the aquarium... but, I have this GLA check valve. Is that adequate if I should want to move the tank back down below the aquarium?


That appears to be identical to the "stainless steel" Hong Kong generic check valve I referenced earlier. Check Evilbay #270743827771.

That same check valve appears to be what is in the generic JBJ-style bubble counter. There are no good Evilbay pictures that I can find, but if you do a search for bubble counters, in the $15 range, which state that they have a built-in check valve, they all have that particular style valve in the bottom. Those that don't have that particular valve have no valve at all - just a simple brass nozzle.

The point is that those particular valves are garbage. I've used at least 6 of them, including those in bubble counters, and each one has failed within 6 months.

So, no, don't depend on that check valve. Invest in something decent. Please.


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

kevmo911 said:


> That appears to be identical to the "stainless steel" Hong Kong generic check valve I referenced earlier. Check Evilbay #270743827771.
> 
> That same check valve appears to be what is in the generic JBJ-style bubble counter. There are no good Evilbay pictures that I can find, but if you do a search for bubble counters, in the $15 range, which state that they have a built-in check valve, they all have that particular style valve in the bottom. Those that don't have that particular valve have no valve at all - just a simple brass nozzle.
> 
> ...


GLA details says the valve is made from 'high grade brass' whereas the knock off only states it's stainless steel. Does this make a difference? 

I thought GLA products were high quality and dependable.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

There have been people who state that the GLA Atomic diffusers, while made by the same Chinese manufacturer as the "generic" Atomic diffusers available via Evilbay, are still of higher quality than their Evilbay counterparts - that the manufacturer has several quality levels of the same type of product.

This may be true. But I've seen no reason to believe it.

It's also possible that generic Chinese manufacturers copy the look of that particular check valve - though I've *never* read any claims of this being the case - but I doubt it.


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## concepts88 (Oct 4, 2012)

The valves not designed for co2 in pet stores for air pumps leak. I have used them and seen it with my own eyes.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

The check valve I had fail was a clippard I believe. I just mentioned keeping the regulator uphill from the check because, I had water go past the check valve on that particular occasion but not up hill to the regulator, fortunately. I certainly wouldn't recommend depending on gravity to protect the regulator but, it might buy you time until you replace the failed check valve. 

Right now I have a GLA check valve protecting the regulator and so far hasn't failed in two years (knock on wood). I also have one of those cheap plastic inline bubble counters with a "so called" built in check valve. It appears to be just a spring loaded plastic disk in the bottom that blocks the hole when CO2 pressure isn't pressing it open. Oddly enough, I haven't seen water go past this point in the line yet, and I really expected it to fail as soon as the spring got "tired". Anyway, I would say having to check valves is probably a good idea.


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

Good to hear the GLA check valve is working well for you! I did move the CO2 tank up next to the tank, and it doesn't bother me there so it will probably stay put. :smile:

thanks for the advice everyone!


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