# Vallisneria dying



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Do you fertilize with nitrates, phosphates, potassium and traces?


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## StarOcean (Nov 12, 2004)

i dose 1/4 tsp of KNO3 2 times a week along with .05 tsp of phosphate 2 times a week every three times and after water change.. I also dose plantex + iron from gret watson at 1/4 tsp 2 times a week every three times and after water change.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

When I had far too much success with vals I had about the same watts per gallon, but using normal fluorescent tubes, and I used DIY CO2, poorly maintained, plus only occasional fertilizing with a LFS liquid containing "good for plants" stuff. I also used fertilizer sticks in the substrate. The water was very hard, but I don't remember the GH and KH. I do seem to recall a post either here or elsewhere suggesting the vals don't do well with some parameter being high (Just how helpful can you get?)


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Just going out on a limb here... what fishies do you have in there?


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## guaiac_boy (Nov 5, 2005)

Vallisneria are a bit different than the average plant kept by people. I think they are less popular than they once were for reasons that aren't clear to me. They do best in water with a high GH and KH. They can actually snip the carbon they require right from the carbonate in the water (they're plenty happy with injected CO2 too). When you plant them, be sure to leave some of the crown above the gravel or they'll tend to rot.

My vals have always just kind of putted along for a few weeks and then, WHAM - they start growing like crazy. They'll take over the whole tank if you let them. They seem to dump lots of energy into sending out new plants and sometimes the mother plant will die back once the runners start doing well. Don't try to trim the leaves that are too tall, since any damaged leaves will typically die back to the crown.

I also found my vals to be very nitrogen and calcium dependent. Once they're happy they'll put down very nice roots and take off. Be patient. If you buy specimens with only small root systems they probably won't have sufficient stores to make it and they'll always be popping out of the substrate. When you plant them, bury them too deep and then gently pull them up until some of the crown is showing.

Good luck.


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## StarOcean (Nov 12, 2004)

hmm you guys all make sense. Maybe i need to have the vals a little higher since i do see their roots rotting. I just remembered having them growing all over like guaiac said, then i started to kill off all the runners and the mother dies icon_redf got lazy). I'm going to just replant them to see how they do. Btw, why do they red at the top? even if it is the light, i've seen many high lit tanks with excellent tips.


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## wapfish (Oct 14, 2005)

FWIW, I moved some tall vals with good root systems from a lowish light, non-CO2 pH8.0 tank (KH = 7-8; GH = 14-15) to a high light, pressurized CO2 pH 6.6/6.8 tank (same KH,GH) with EI dosing and all other plants growing fine. They didn't like it one bit. Got pale and didn't grow well. Left them there for several weeks before moving back to the original tank where they recovered immediately.

Another thing, I don't think vals like Excel, if you happen to be dosing.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

StarOcean said:


> i dose 1/4 tsp of KNO3 2 times a week along with .05 tsp of phosphate 2 times a week every three times and after water change..


How are you measuring your phosphate? Do you mean 0.5 tsp? (I use Fleet so I don't know how to dose powder.)

guaiac_boy gives good advice about the crowns.

I'm thinking about getting rid of my vals, but they are doing quite well under 3 wpg and EI. I never have had a problem with them, although the occasional leaf would die from time to time. Main issue is keeping them trimmed with scissors so they don't shade the other plants.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Jart, do you have any spiral vals, which are supposed to grow shorter? Do they? (grow shorter)


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## valleyvampiress (Apr 25, 2005)

wapfish said:


> Another thing, I don't think vals like Excel, if you happen to be dosing.


I can vouch for that. My corckscrew started deteriorating fast after adding a small dose of excel. I had to do water change for things to perk up again. Seachem site says excel only lasts 24hrs. but there must be some stuff left over because vals didn't fair well until water change (before excel dose, vals were fine).

guaiac_boy is right about the runners too. They seem to shoot more runners than want to grow their own set of leaves.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Hoppy said:


> Jart, do you have any spiral vals, which are supposed to grow shorter? Do they? (grow shorter)


No I do not, Hoppy. I originally bought the vals as a starter plant, and they did quite well in this role. I also have E. tenellus, which is fairly similar, so I may get rid of the vals (space issues). Plus, I find the major downside of vals is thinning them out without ripping up everything in the vicinity (runners like crazy).


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## guaiac_boy (Nov 5, 2005)

I've had corkscrew vals in my tank for several months now. They never get much taller than about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the tank (46 bowfront - about 21" tall). If you're looking for a val for a smaller tank these are perfect. The leaf shape is pretty interesting too and provides a contrast to lots of other shapes/textures.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

guaiac_boy said:


> I've had corkscrew vals in my tank for several months now. They never get much taller than about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the tank (46 bowfront - about 21" tall). If you're looking for a val for a smaller tank these are perfect. The leaf shape is pretty interesting too and provides a contrast to lots of other shapes/textures.


Yes, I am looking for a val that wont overwhelm my 29 gallon tank. I have done overwhelm already with stargrass. I will be watching swap and shop for corkscrew vals. Because my first aquarium back in the 50's had vals I always like to have some.


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## guaiac_boy (Nov 5, 2005)

Hoppy if you want, I'll send you all of mine. It really is time to start decreasing the # of species that I'm trying to keep. I've resigned them to a back corner of the tank where they can't be seen anyway. They'd probably enjoy a chance to get some light and stretch out a bit.


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## Mustang5L5 (Feb 1, 2004)

I've had bad luck with vals as well. I have plenty of the other commonly kept varieties of plants in my tank and they do well, but everytime i add some vals they die back within a few weeks. 

I've bought Jungle Val and corkscrew vals before and had them die on me. 

I just bought a pair of Italian Vals today and planted them in a high-light area of my tank. We'll see how these do. They are larger and better developed than any others i have planted before.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

guaiac_boy said:


> Hoppy if you want, I'll send you all of mine. It really is time to start decreasing the # of species that I'm trying to keep. I've resigned them to a back corner of the tank where they can't be seen anyway. They'd probably enjoy a chance to get some light and stretch out a bit.


Sorry I missed seeing this when you first posted it. I just bought a few from another of our members, so I won't need any more (until those die?) When I first had vals, back in the '50's I quickly learned that if you bury the crown you kill the plant, so I always pulled them back until the crown was above the substrate (ordinary sand at that time.) The ones I planted in my 125 gallon tank a few years ago I still pulled back to expose the crown and they did great. But, they did just sit there for few weeks before exploding in growth. I never had to replant any because I had so many runners - my problem was removing the excess. I'm looking forward to seeing how these do in a better fertilized tank. Hopefully the corkscrew type will not grow so long.


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