# Failed Molt Death? (Cherry Shrimp Juvenile)



## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

When I see shrimp like that I feed blanched kale ASAP. In my experience it fixes most molting issues within 48 hours. Kale is VERY high in cacium and additional nutrients. And for preventative measures, I typically see those situations after I feed high protein (but my gH and kH or normal). Low gH and kH can attribute to failed molts. Test your parameters to see if it's water or diet.


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## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

Ok so it's definitely a failed molt then. My GH is 5, perhaps to low for Cherrys? Parameters were tested immediately after I saw the shrimp. Diet consists of Hikari Shrimp Cuisine, Hikari Algae Wafers, blanched spinnach and Zuchinni. I add Fluval Shrimp Mineral to my RO water. What exactly is in Kale that assists shrimp in molting?


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

What I just said...it's very high in calcium. Knocks spinach out of the park in with nutrients overall. It was recommended on Shrimpnow for help with failed molts, and it's helped me every time. Obviously your mileage may vary, just giving my experiences. Though my problem molts have come strictly from too much protein...the diet of my shrimp is quite varied. It's only when I bump up the protein they tend to experience this. (sorry for the typos, my L key is sticking)


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Oh GH of 5 is fine for cherries. What's the KH?


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## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

KH is 1-2. I will try some Kale, it can't hurt. I don't think it's my water because I do use Fluval Shrimp Mineral. I also am not sure what it is that I could be feeding them that is high in protein. Hikari Shrimp Cuisine has nearly the same amount of protein that the algae wafers have.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Both of those are high in protein IMO. Protein is 33% and 35%. Straight up frozen bloodworms are 6% protein and I consider those high (and those and beefheart have caused failed molts for me). Just a brief search in most brands of foods does not give a guaranteed analysis. I raise horses and don't want them above 8% protein. Yes, yes, I know a shrimp isn't a horse...but it's also not a strict carnivore either.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/


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## Snowflake311 (Apr 20, 2011)

ravensgate said:


> http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/


That's a good link.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Yes, hikari shrimp food and algae wafers are both mainly fish meal (meat protein), feeding too much meat protein can cause a molting problem, especially in juveniles, causing them to outgrow their shell before they are physically able to molt another time.

Switch to a decent shrimp food and supplement with leafy greens (zucchini is fine, but its no spinach)
Stay away from vegetables full of starches and simple sugars like corn and potatoes (can increase the likelihood of water spoilage or bacterial blooms), and even vegetables high in protein like beans and peas (although they can be fed just like animal protein).


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## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/


Thanks for the link and sound advice Jaime.



mordalphus said:


> Yes, hikari shrimp food and algae wafers are both mainly fish meal (meat protein), feeding too much meat protein can cause a molting problem, especially in juveniles, causing them to outgrow their shell before they are physically able to molt another time.
> 
> Switch to a decent shrimp food and supplement with leafy greens (zucchini is fine, but its no spinach)
> Stay away from vegetables full of starches and simple sugars like corn and potatoes (can increase the likelihood of water spoilage or bacterial blooms), and even vegetables high in protein like beans and peas (although they can be fed just like animal protein).


And thank you Mordalphus for your input.

I must say that I am fairly dissapointed in the fact that Hikari would make foods specifically targeted at people keeping shrimp and then when hearing from people more experienced than me on this forum, that the food can indeed cause molting problems seems crazy to me. I have used Hikari foods for many years with various types of freshwater fish and they have all worked really well for me. So my trust in the brand has lead me to believe that I should have no reason to question their food. Even though I must say reading the gauranteed protein analysis of Hikari foods always made me think, "That's a lot of protein for shrimp." But again because of my trust and success in the brand over the years I believed it was good food. 

I will be switching foods because obviously those of you who have responded to my thread have more experience than I and I value that advice. So I guess the question is, what should I feed my shrimp until I can get a different brand of food other than Kale and spinnach. And which brand of food do you recommend I switch to?

I will also be contacting Hikari and asking them why they make their shrimp food the way they do and see what there answer is.

This is why I have been coming here for advice, TPT is a great tool for learning in the hobby od Shrimkeeping. Thanks again and, I would appreciate any other advice that can be directed my way.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

My best advice I can give is go through the Sellers forum and find folks that sell sample sizes of products. You can get a LOT of different foods in to try and see which your shrimp prefer. Much better than spending $15+ on a bottle of something they don't eat (ask me how I know!). I know h4n and PC1 both sell sample sizes of Borneowild and Mosura products.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Oh, and when I first got into shrimp earlier this year I also bought exactly what you have, the Hikari Shrimp Cuisine and the Algae wafers and for the exact reasons you stated...I had always felt it was a top notch brand when I was dealing strictly with fish. Then I started to really read up on the other food options out there and got lots of samples in and started feeding veggies and my shrimps' health seemed to improve overall once I started really varying their diet. I do veggies once or twice a week, then they get Repashy Soilent Green once or twice a week and then I feed dry food once or twice a week. I only feed every other day, so sometimes I'll do a small piece of kale and a small piece of dry food on one day. Then the next feeding they'll get dry food and a piece of Repashy. Those are just examples anyway. I try to give them a couple of options but keep the amount of food very small so as not to overfeed and get lots of bug problems. I already have seed shrimp and Rhabdocoela in there but would prefer not having LOTS of bugs and overfeeding for sure can lead to it.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Hikari shrimp cuisine is a decent food, its just packed with protein, so not great for a staple diet. And their algae wafers are more for plecos than shrimp, which is why they are protein packed.

Also hikari shrimp cuisine is very expensive, that tiny 10 gram pouch is 4-5 bucks, you can get a big 80 gram bag of shirakura food for less than 20 dollars, and it has 8 times the amount of food. Other shrimp foods are cheaper than that too!


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## cantsay39 (Jun 10, 2011)

hikari food has copper heard that shrimps need alittle of copper to help the molting~


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

cantsay39 said:


> hikari food has copper heard that shrimps need alittle of copper to help the molting~


That's wrong, I'm pretty sure the copper in hikari food is a preservative. Its true trace amounts of copper are needed for shrimp to live, but its so small of a trace, that enough is prsent in every food.

Copper has nothing to do with molting.


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## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

Appreciate the advice from experience. I am definitely switching foods. Right now I have been using Hikari foods as a staple supplementing with mostly spinach, occasionally zuchinni, and sometimes bloodworms and brineshrimp. I never had any problems with the Hikari Shrimp Cuisine then again I never raised babies, except once. But being that I have a good number of CRS and I want them to breed and have healthy babies, sounds like it's time to mix it up. 

I'm still calling Hikari and asking them what is the reason they prefer to make shrimp food that is high in protein when high protien diets are obviously linked to molting issues.


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## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

mordalphus said:


> That's wrong, I'm pretty sure the copper in hikari food is a preservative. Its true trace amounts of copper are needed for shrimp to live, but its so small of a trace, that enough is prsent in every food.
> 
> Copper has nothing to do with molting.


It's also copper sulfate which I believe is different than copper and according to Hikari it is neccesary for proper shrimp blood circulation.


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## fr0sty (Jan 8, 2012)

Mordalphus, what's the reasoning behind zucchini, but no spinach? I thought spinach was good and it seems lots of people feed it.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I meant spinach is better than zucchini. Zucchini is fine, but its expensive and id rather eat it myself. It also isn't as nutritionally dense.


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## Shrimpaholic (Jul 7, 2012)

mordalphus said:


> I meant spinach is better than zucchini. Zucchini is fine, but its expensive and id rather eat it myself. It also isn't as nutritionally dense.


Yep that's my shrimps primary vegtable. I'm gonna try adding some Kale to my shrimps diet as suggested by Jaime.


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## fr0sty (Jan 8, 2012)

Haha, oops, i read your original statement wrong!

As of right now, I just steal a few leaves of spinach from the salad bar at work, ends up being perfect because I always have fresh leaves!

but totally agree with you, I'd rather toss some garden-picked zucchini on the grill to eat myself


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