# FIRE! My tank exploded!



## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Closer shot of the ODNO fixture that was melted in half....


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Sorry to hear this. hope everyone apart from the tank is doing well


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

The stand where the tank was sitting. You can see some burn marks on the wall, and the stand is covered in mulm and soot.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Holy Cow!! What a nightmare....I certainly hope it was the ODNO...for the sakes of others with the coralife fixtures...will insurance be able to take care of the damages, replacement of the tank, etc? 

At least no one was hurt (and even the cat too).


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

A few of the casualties...


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Here's a shot of the floor, all covered in mulm, and substrate....


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

milalic, Georgiadawgger, thanks. Fortunately no one was hurt, and I'm very happy that someone noticed the smoke coming from the door. Otherwise the fire would have surely spread if a few more minutes had gone by.

The insurance adjuster should be here tomorrow, so hopefully everything will get covered. I just dread the restoration process...

-Jeremiah


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## Loser (Oct 4, 2005)

wow..... very sorry you are going through this. did you have your tank gear on a gfci outlet? i had an old pc fixture start to burn up years ago but it was on a gfci and didnt get too far. i wonder if there is any way to tell of the two what light started this. if you decide to start over pm me and i will send you some cuttings to get things rolling.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

So sorry to hear about this  Something like this happening has always been a fear of mine. Looks like quite a mess to clean up. yikes.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your loss. My lights make me a little nervious at times, so I would like to ask some gorry details. Were you running 2x or 4x? Did both ends of the fixture survive - what do the endcaps look like (was that a picture of the entire remains of the odno - are is there another 1/2)? Am trying to figure out if it was a bulb heat issue, and endcap heat issue, or an issue with the fixture (did it have any fans, was it on glass - basically things that would make it run hot)


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## krazykidd86 (Jul 27, 2005)

Geez, makes me think twice about this aquarium craze! I was just reading something on APC that had a similar fire due to a malfunction on their coralife timer. In that case it melted the whole acrylic aquarium, which ultimately put out their fire. Here's a link for those interested

As I glance over your pictures, I'm thinking, "gosh you're damn lucky that fire was isolated around the aquarium, and didn't spread over to that big co2 cylinder you got back there!"  

Way to stay positive, and thanks for sharing..no overdriving here. hehe. :wink: 

Best of luck cleaning, and rebuilding your beautiful tank. roud: 

the KIDD


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

What a nightmare! Everyday I fear coming home to a similar situation.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

crshadow said:


> milalic, Georgiadawgger, thanks. Fortunately no one was hurt, and I'm very happy that someone noticed the smoke coming from the door. Otherwise the fire would have surely spread if a few more minutes had gone by.
> 
> The insurance adjuster should be here tomorrow, so hopefully everything will get covered. I just dread the restoration process...
> 
> -Jeremiah


Before you do anything with an insurance settlement... talk to me. I work for the largest restoration contractor in CT, I see 100s of jobs like yours every year. Send me a PM, we can chat over there. You aint gonna get rich but at least I can help you get a fair deal. :wink: 

Marcel


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## toofazt (Jun 18, 2005)

Wow... I hope it wasnt the coralife fixture either becuse I have the same one. I am so sorry for your loss, hopfully insurance will cover it.



> did you have your tank gear on a gfci outlet? i had an old pc fixture start to burn up years ago but it was on a gfci and didnt get too far.


What is a gfci outle?


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## badren (Jan 5, 2005)

My condolences, you know I've actually woke up at night to check that tank because of a bad feeling


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

toofazt said:


> What is a gfci outle?



http://www.fireshield.com/

This power strip has a built in GFI, about $12 at Walmart. The one with a surge protector too is more, about $24, IIRC.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Now that's a real nightmare! Best of luck!!


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

toofazt said:


> Wow... I hope it wasnt the coralife fixture either becuse I have the same one. I am so sorry for your loss, hopfully insurance will cover it.
> 
> 
> What is a gfci outle?


GFCI stands for ground fault circuit interrupt. They come standard in most newer houses, but I doubt it would have prevented something like this from happening. The basic concept of GFCI is that if you have a short on one of your electrical outlets, the GFCI is designed to shut that circuit off to prevent the problem from spreading to other circuits in your home. Our current house was built about 30 years ago and did not have them when we moved in, but at the advice of the inspector and an electrician, I installed them in both bathrooms, kitchen and outside. They say to install them into any circuit that may come in contact with water/moisture. Since your tank probably was on fire before the GFCI would have been triggered, it may not have made any difference...but we never know. IMHO, all homes should have them just in case. Cost about $10/ea and take about 15-20 minutes to install if you know what you're doing. Sorry again for your disaster 
-Ryan


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Loser said:


> wow..... very sorry you are going through this. did you have your tank gear on a gfci outlet? i had an old pc fixture start to burn up years ago but it was on a gfci and didnt get too far. i wonder if there is any way to tell of the two what light started this. if you decide to start over pm me and i will send you some cuttings to get things rolling.


Thanks you very much for the plant offer. I'll let you know if I need anything, but fortunately, most of the species I still have in other tanks.

As for the GFCI, yes, I use GFCI's on all my tanks. (They've saved my bacon a couple of times too!) The GFI did kick off, but it may have been too late in this case.



jgc said:


> Sorry to hear about your loss. My lights make me a little nervious at times, so I would like to ask some gorry details. Were you running 2x or 4x? Did both ends of the fixture survive - what do the endcaps look like (was that a picture of the entire remains of the odno - are is there another 1/2)? Am trying to figure out if it was a bulb heat issue, and endcap heat issue, or an issue with the fixture (did it have any fans, was it on glass - basically things that would make it run hot)


I was running 4xODNO. I'll do an "autopsy" on both fixtures later on and will post some pictures for you to take a look at. That picture did in fact show the entire remains of the fixture. Half of the fixture was completely gone!



toofazt said:


> What is a gfci outle?


GFCI is short for Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor. It basically cuts power to a plug if it detects a "Ground Fault" such as a short, or more specifically, if you drop an electrical device into water.




anonapersona said:


> http://www.fireshield.com/


Ann, thanks for the link. Looks they have some interesting products! Bookmarked!


Everyone, thanks again, I very much appreciate your sympathies.

-Jeremiah


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## tiny (Apr 20, 2004)

What a terrible thing to happen, hopefully you recover something from the insurance, btw, what is ODNO?, i read it but i don't know what it means.


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## Pseud (Oct 2, 2005)

omg, that's horrible, I'm so sorry you had to go through this ordeal.


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your fire.
Being a firefighter, from the looks of you fixture that is the cause, comparing it to the coralife, the over driven light looks as if it totally melted.... that is were the fire was the hottest and centered around that area. Without seeing the underside of the coralife that looks to be the cause, whatever is the most chared and burnt or melted is your cause


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Don't let the insurance guy know you built that light fixture and were doing ODNO. I'm sure they would use that as a method of denying your claim.


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## trckrunrmike (Jul 20, 2005)

Wow, sorry about the loss.

How exactly could the fixture break the glass?


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## Hypancistrus (Oct 28, 2004)

What's ODNO?


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

Since the Coralife light isn't UL listed couldn't they deny the claim because of it also?


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## Loser (Oct 4, 2005)

ground fault circuit interupt + gfci

Like the outlets most places built in the last 10 years have near a vanity or kitchen sink. Its kind of like a little circuit breaker right at the outlet.


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## krazykidd86 (Jul 27, 2005)

Hypancistrus said:


> What's ODNO?


Over driven Normal Output - Refers to powering the lights way past their potential, leads to higher intensity shorter bulb lifespan. If you're interested do a search, but after seeing this aftermath..might not be worth it eh?  

Again, Best of Luck with the Insurance people! roud: 

the KIDD


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

krazykidd86 said:


> Over driven Normal Output - Refers to powering the lights way past their potential, leads to higher intensity shorter bulb lifespan. If you're interested do a search, but after seeing this aftermath..might not be worth it eh?
> 
> Again, Best of Luck with the Insurance people! roud:
> 
> the KIDD


That's close, but it is actually only powering the lights closer to their full potential. The light manufacturers purposefully power the bulbs lower to avoid overheating and to extend bulb life.

I'm glad everyone's okay and I hope you get things worked out smoothly.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Rex Grigg said:


> Don't let the insurance guy know you built that light fixture and were doing ODNO. I'm sure they would use that as a method of denying your claim.


Thats not necessarily true. Accidental fire is not arson. We have a saying in the business.... Please don't be offended.... the saying is "Stupidity is covered".

As long as it wasn't intentionally set its almost always covered.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

man thats no cool at all. but atleast everyone is safe and no one was hurt. really stinks your fish and plants didnt fair too well. if you need any help with stuff lemme know and i will see what i can do for you. i come across alot of deals around here if you need anything.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Holy crap! This is awful, but not nearly as bad as it could have been. 

All the best as you get everything together.


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## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

Loser said:


> wow..... very sorry you are going through this. did you have your tank gear on a gfci outlet? i had an old pc fixture start to burn up years ago but it was on a gfci and didnt get too far. i wonder if there is any way to tell of the two what light started this. if you decide to start over pm me and i will send you some cuttings to get things rolling.


Count me in on this offer as well whatever I have and you would like is yours. roud: I am glad everyone is safe and you had an extinguisher on hand!!


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

Sorry about being a little insencitive and asking questions. I worry about keeping this from happening to others - perhaps more than a lot of people. I went through a fire (not tank related) about 10 years ago when I was living in an appartment. I was also lucky - we only lost stuff (everything upstairs burned, downstares was masive smoke damage).


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## Hypancistrus (Oct 28, 2004)

krazykidd86 said:


> Over driven Normal Output - Refers to powering the lights way past their potential, leads to higher intensity shorter bulb lifespan.


That sure doesn't sound like a good idea to me, and this thread seems to confirm that. :eek5:


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

ODNO is most likely only an aggravating factor. Before I tried an odno - I read the reef threads (50+ pages of them) about fires. Those hobbyists were having fires with HO T12's (which are all but a standard in the reef water world) as well as a few issues with CF. 

Their threads failed to agree on the cause. Bulb operating temperature alone (even at HO or VHO levels) were not enough to start the fires. Nothing short of arcing (between the filament and the pin or the pins and the contacts) was hot enough by itself. The reef forums were mostly concerned with factors that could contribute to causing arcing (high bulb temps could start a cascade of various failures that could ultimately cause arcing), and factors that allowed the arcing to start a fire. 

That said, a hot bulb could conceivably melt a poorly ventilated plastic hood, making a diy easy bake oven – which could be hot enough to start a fire. Also have seen evidence that indicated endcap failures are fairly common even in non-aquarium situations (thought uncontained fires are uncommon). 
---
(edited - I talked to Kayakbabe several weeks ago about this issue, I respect her opinion on this. She also had some other interesting observations about the potential causes of the reef system fires). 

Personally, I prefer redundant protection - first avoid the failure, then prevent the fire after the failure, finally contain the fire - I lost my apartment when a contractor skimped on the third one (failed to install the full fire break per design spec - installed most, but cheeped out on some glass).


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

krazykidd86 said:


> As I glance over your pictures, I'm thinking, "gosh you're damn lucky that fire was isolated around the aquarium, and didn't spread over to that big co2 cylinder you got back there!"
> 
> the KIDD


Actually, the heat ought to make the tank overpressure until the pressure valve blows, releasing CO2 which would put out the fire.


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## kimbm04r (May 5, 2005)

Wow, what a mess. I am so glad to hear that no one was hurt in the fire. Sorry to hear you lost a few fish but at least you and the family are okay.

I hope you don't have a problem with your landlord. I hope they don't take a second thought about aquariums after this. Being a landlord myself I know it would be on my mind but loving aquariums myself, I can see both sides of the fence as well.

Like others have said, if there is anything I can help with just let me know. If I can I will.

Best of luck with the clean up. You will be in my thoughts.


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## dissident (Oct 15, 2003)

Once/if you get back setup send me a pm I usually have a few plants I can spare ya.

Glad to hear no one/pets were hurt.


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## Kayakbabe (Sep 4, 2005)

regarding ODNO... I worked in a lab where we made equipment that was rated by Underwriter's Laboratories for a couple of years. I was part of the QA team and did the lab testing on samples. There is a reason why things that get UL ratings are able to get them. They are tested to be safe when run in certain conditions within certain boundaries. They are also tested by overdriving/pushing them to certain points way beyond what they are designed to normally run at. We pushed samples until they caught on fire, or malfunctioned. But we had specially built cabinates to do this in, so we and the building we were in were safe. It's amazing how something can go from being 'normal' to 'terribly wrong' in a split second. What is not so amazing, in every single thing we tested ( and I mean EVERY single thing that we blew up or burned up) the only differences were at what point they spontaneously did it at. Some burned up at just 10% over their rating, some at 200% over their rating, some even withstood more.

My point is that you purchase an given brand and model the manfacturer gaurantees it to work in a given range and it is rated and quite capable of that; but, you never will know if that item can withstand just a little or a whole lot of overdriving. 

When you overdrive different units even of the same brand and model you are gonna get really variable results. You might get away with your fixture/bulbs for this year, but when you replace them next year... you might not. It's a crap shoot.

Personally after working in the QA lab... and knowing how much more throrough our managers wanted us to be when the UL inspectors were coming versus the rest of the time (on top of how much variety in the testing results there is when things are considered normal)... I would never do an ODNO lighting system. Just too dangerous in my opinion.. All the first hand reported evidence on the aquarium bulleting boards including this guys experience should just confirm it to other people on this forum. ODNO isn't safe.

You got parents/kids in your house? Your spouse sleeps really soundly, you do? You have a pet that can't open a door and run out of the house? Why take the risk? Skip the movies and going out to dinner or going out to lunch with fellow co-workers a few times to pay for the right lighting fixture for your tank, if you have to have it and can't afford it. Quit that 2 pack a day smoking habit, etc. Get a Jeep SUV instead of a Caddillac SUV... etc. Or wait a bit and save up for it. ODNO isn't worth the consequences of it going wrong. 

I've personally sunk a ton of money into my fish tanks and systems over time (yeah I"m a geek I track everying in quicken)... and my furniture.. and my family pictures and my guitars... I"M not going to risk all that equipment and time and effort over a couple of hundred bucks. My house insurance costs more than that.

I bought the cheaper vehicle when it came time to replace it last year, so I could have money available for toys... like cool lights for my show tank... 

Be careful.. you get what you pay for.

Kelly


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## cookfromscratch (Aug 10, 2005)

Just posting my condolances. So sorry. I've always been afraid of some natural disaster. Glad to hear no humans were hurt though.


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## capricorn77 (May 6, 2005)

Jeremiah,
I echo the condolences of others of your loss. Tragic event to have happen to you, after all the effort and money you put into creating the tank. 
I too would like to offer whatever I can to help you re-build your next, better, and safer tank (ie - no ODNO lights for you)! :icon_bigg 
Plant clippings, some hardware if there's anything that I have that you can use. 

Keep up your good spirits! There's a ton of amazing people here who are reaching out to ya! roud:


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Wow, so sorry to hear about your losing your tank/plants/fish. Luckily it was just the tank though. Fire scares the heck out of me, with the possibility of losing everything. A good thing you were there to put it out!

I'm curious as to what actually caught fire. Isn't that fixture made out of metal? So what was actually burning? Did you have a wooden canopy/hood over the tank or something?


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

Just echoing everyone. Take care man, hopefully it all works out. :icon_frow


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Wow, a lot to reply to! First off thanks again everyone for all your kind words... This has definitely been a difficult situation, so I very much appreciate everyone's caring and input.



bigstick120 said:


> Sorry to hear about your fire.Being a firefighter, from the looks of you fixture that is the cause, comparing it to the coralife, the over driven light looks as if it totally melted.... that is were the fire was the hottest and centered around that area. Without seeing the underside of the coralife that looks to be the cause, whatever is the most chared and burnt or melted is your cause


I appreciate the input, I will post some closeups of both fixtures, perhaps you can tell me your thoughts after seeing them. Until then, it does seem that the overdriven fixture is the culprit.




jgc said:


> Sorry about being a little insencitive and asking questions. I worry about keeping this from happening to others - perhaps more than a lot of people. I went through a fire (not tank related) about 10 years ago when I was living in an appartment. I was also lucky - we only lost stuff (everything upstairs burned, downstares was masive smoke damage).
> 
> That said, a hot bulb could conceivably melt a poorly ventilated plastic hood, making a diy easy bake oven – which could be hot enough to start a fire. Also have seen evidence that indicated endcap failures are fairly common even in non-aquarium situations (thought uncontained fires are uncommon).


No problem, I didn't take it as insensitive at all. I hope to post those greater detail pics soon. 

:icon_idea Regarding your statement about the endcaps, a month or two before this I had to replace two of the bulbs in the coralife fixture that were no longer working. It was damn near impossible to get the bulbs off the endcaps due to some corrosion. I literally had to use pliers for quite some time to get them off of the bulbs. I ended up not replacing the bulbs and just left the endcaps there with no bulbs in them... I wonder if there was a possibility of any arcing if the endcaps were to come into contact with the metal reflector or housing..... When I removed the bulbs, I was sure to switch the corresponding switch off for those endcaps. However, I did drop this fixture at one point after this, so I wonder if the switch could have been hit back to the on position.... Argg.... Even if this were the case, there's a chance I had also disconnected the power cord to that bank of lights on the coralife fixture, but now I don't remember... So it's hard for me to say for certain whether that was a possibility or not... I dunno... :icon_conf 


Kayakbabe: Thanks for all the info, it is some great food for thought.




awrieger said:


> I'm curious as to what actually caught fire. Isn't that fixture made out of metal? So what was actually burning? Did you have a wooden canopy/hood over the tank or something?


What seemed to catch fire was the plastic enclosure of the ODNO fixture, as well as all the internals on the coralife fixture. The top aquarium support brace melted and the left side of my entertainment center also was partially on fire.


To everyone who has offered me plants, I will let you know once all this is over with. I very much appreciate the gesture!! I feel bad taking advantage though.... This forum is full of such wonderful members! 

Thanks again to all,

Jeremiah


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Not sure if this has been asked, but was there a fan installed with the lights?


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Wow does this have me thinking. :icon_frow 

Im really sorry for your dilemma and I hope the insurance co. can help you out. That is quite a mess you have to deal with but on the brighter side it could have been much worst . Thankfully your timing was good and saved any major fire from occurring. This is a scenario I have played out time and again in my mind.

Best wishes on a quick and happy outcome Jeremiah.


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

ringram said:


> Not sure if this has been asked, but was there a fan installed with the lights?


Ryan, the coralife fixture had two fans running on it. As for the ODNO fixture, there were no fans installed. The fixture never ran very hot at all.



Buck said:


> Best wishes on a quick and happy outcome Jeremiah.


Thanks Buck!

-Jeremiah


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## vinnymac (Feb 28, 2005)

OMG. That's terrible to see. I'm glad to hear the damage was isolated and no one was injured (beyond the fish that died). I've had some heat issue with my lighting and I've always had the concern in the back of my head about the risk of fire.

I hope your insurance covers the losses and you're able to replace the tank.

I trim my 65g planted tank every 7-10 days and I always have plants available. I'd be happy to offer the trimmings to you at no charge if you cover the cost of shipping. This would be a quick way to get things started again. I'd also toss in a bonus pack of 5 free cherry shrimp (if the weather isn't too cold at the time of shipping) since you mentioned you loss some shrimp too.

Good luck with everything. roud:


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

BTW-- dude your fissidens came to me very nice. I also really want to return the favor!

When you get your tank back up, drop me a line. I got tons of Taiwan moss at home, hopefully some others too though I won't know until I get back. I'll also be trying hard to propogate the fissidens you sent me so hopefully I can send some back to you one day too.


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

Sorry for the late reply, but I caught this from a reference in another thread


Buck said:


> Wow does this have me thinking. :icon_frow


Me too! It would appear to me that the ballasts are the weak link in the chain. I am still going to go ahead with ODNO lighting, but will now: enclose the ballasts in a steel box insulated with rock wool insulation, extend one of the series of hard wired smoke alarms into the same room as the proposed tank, place a fire extinguisher near the tank. Any other suggestions?

...and let me join in with my condolences and hope that it all works out well for you in the end. How is the adjustment process going along?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Matak said:


> Sorry for the late reply, but I caught this from a reference in another threadMe too! It would appear to me that the ballasts are the weak link in the chain. I am still going to go ahead with ODNO lighting, but will now: enclose the ballasts in a steel box insulated with rock wool insulation,


Encasing the ballasts in a "fire box" will only exacerbate the problem by locking the heat in.


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## Jerm (Sep 26, 2005)

roud: It's good this was made into a sticky. roud:


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Sorry for being out of touch everyone. We've been out of the house the last two weeks while they continue to work on the restoration of the apartment. So far the insurance is taking care of everything, and I hope it continues to go well as the restoration process comes to a conclusion.

greenmiddlefinger: Glad to hear the fissidens made it in good shape. Fortunately the tank was destroyed was not the tank with the fissidens.

vinnymac, Matak: Thank you very much for your condolences.

Jerm: I'm also glad to see that this has been moved to a sticky. While I don't want to discourage people from DIYing, I do think it's important to remember that things like this can and do happen and that everyone should always proceed with prudence and caution.

-Jeremiah


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## FreeSpirit (Nov 20, 2005)

Dude I am sorry to hear of your loss. 
I offer ANY kind of plant I have to you. roud: I have some great forground plants,vals,and crypts in excess. Just let me know what you need. I also offer you your pick of (6) blue-brown neo or (6) cherry red shrimp or (4) nerite snails. I can send you some hardscape items like wood too. LMK 

Don't let this get you down. Let this drive you to make your best tank ever.


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Well, I've took a few better pictures of both the Coralife and ODNO fixtures. It is still difficult to ascertain which fixture caused the fire as both show possible evidence of being the cause.

Regarding the ODNO fixture: The biggest factor with this one is that right half of the entire fixture was melted away, making it the easiest to blame. However, it was made of plastic, hence easier to melt versus the metal frame of the Coralife fixture. Also the fact that this fixture was modified makes it questionable. That being said, I am very confident in my wiring and retrofitting and doubt I did anything carelessly. I also had a makeshift heatsink attached to each ballast to help dissipate operating heat. This fixture was running fine for at least six months and it never ran hot or anything. The morning of the fire, the fixture had only been on for an hour at most. Still, its hard to shake the fact that half of it was gone.

Regarding the Coralife fixture: Again, this fixture has a metal case which would prevent this fixture from being destroyed as easily. The clear acrylic shield that goes underneath the Coralife was melted away across the entire length of the fixture. Also, looking at the following pics, the right portion of the inside shows a lot of scorch marks which would seem to indicate that this fixture was also burning more on the right side than the left. Another thing worth mentioning is that if you look at the earlier pics, there is a burn mark on the left wall and on the entertainment center that was to the right of the tank. This would seem to indicate that the fire was emanating from both sides of the coralife fixture. The scorching on the left wall could not have been caused by the ODNO fixture as the left side of it was intact.

Here's a pic of the left side of the coralife fixture. Note that it is actually fused to the plastic tank rim.









Here's the right side of the Coralife fixture.









Here's a closeup of the inner right side of the Coralife showing the burn marks.









A closeup of the what used to be the fans on top of the Coralife. Note that one is completely melted away.










Here are both fixtures next to eachother. The Coralife is flipped in relation the the ODNO, so I marked both for clarity.









A closeup of one of the ballasts from the ODNO fixture.









It's still hard to say with absolute certainty which caused the fire. I'm open to any thoughts. It's very easy to blame the ODNO fixture, but I don't want to be hasty and scare everyone away from ODNO if its not what caused the incident.

-Jeremiah


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Jeez.. My condolences on your loss, and I'm very glad things weren't worse than they were.

I have also had an aquarium light catch fire. I came home to find my cats looking very scared. Then I opened my bedroom door to find the room filled with acrid smoke. One of the CFL spiral lights I was using in an incandescent hood had failed, spectacularly. Fortunately, the fire burned itself out. This hood does not include a splash shield.

Autopsy of the bulb's electronics revealed corrosion, evidence of water infiltration, and salt creep (I was lightly salting my freshwater tanks at the time).

I now seal every hole, seam, and joint on CFLs with copious amounts of silicone before aquarium use.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

I'm sorry about the awful incident! Glad no one was hurt.

Looking through a few of your pictures, Ive noticed a few things. (You probably already know)

1) what ever cause the fire, it definitely started on the right side.

*In this picture you can see how much of the tank frame has melted away on this specific side. You can also see the burn mark on the coral light fixture, also on the right side.*








*This picture shows dark soot spots on the CL fixture, and completely melted away right side.*









*This picture got me thinking.*
In this picture, you can see a little burn mark on the side. Do you know what might have caused this? 









2 things i think could have happened here-

1) fire started from bottom and traveled up to the light fixture, 

or

2) fire from the light fixture burned the cord and fell at the side off the tank. Judging from the picture, it looks like your tank was flush against the wall and the side off the cabinet. I can see an outline residue of the stand against the cabinet.
But the problem with the second idea is- when an electric cords burn, The rubber melts away and the wire remains. The soot marks aren't consistent if fire started from the top and worked its way down the cord. The soot mark that's circled looks like there was some concentration of fire there.


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

Sorry for your loss, *cr*, but hot damn! this is getting nearly as exciting as an episode of *CSI*!
I can't wait for the surprise twist ending!


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## snoopfish (Dec 4, 2005)

I am so sorry to be reading about this loss of yours. I have been through a devastating fire. Take it one day at a time, as I am sure you are already doing! You will make it through and the experience, even though it is negative, will help you in some way.
Don't feel bad about people wanting to help you out either! Take the help, and return the favour to someone else some day. All the best to you!


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

reviewing the thread, post 27 plus post 41...

Is it true that Corallife is not UL listed? Kelly in post 41 had some valuable insights to what that means.


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

anonapersona said:


> reviewing the thread, post 27 plus post 41...
> 
> Is it true that Corallife is not UL listed? Kelly in post 41 had some valuable insights to what that means.


Does all electrical equipment have to be UL approved in the US? Up here in Canada anything that plugs in must be CSA (our equivilent of UL) approved before sale.


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## krazykidd86 (Jul 27, 2005)

Matak said:


> Does all electrical equipment have to be UL approved in the US? Up here in Canada anything that plugs in must be CSA (our equivilent of UL) approved before sale.


I don't thinks so. I have a jebo 110 watt from aquatraders.com that is not UL approved. Works well.


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

Sorry it happened!! I have had a pc retro fit kit have problems before! Everytime I opened the tank lid I would hear a frying sound from the light, and come to find out one of the wires on the socket had come loose in the PUSH IN CONNECTOR! Luckily nothing major happened!! I HATE THOSE CRAPPY PUSH IN CONNECTORS ON SOCKETS!!!!!! Thank God everyone is allrite!! Fish and tanks can be replaced, but your life can't!! 


Good luck on the rebuild!
Drew


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

*krazykidd86* - Love that avatar. I often feel just like that.



BoxxerBoyDrew said:


> Sorry it happened!! I have had a pc retro fit kit have problems before! Everytime I opened the tank lid I would hear a frying sound from the light, and come to find out one of the wires on the socket had come loose in the PUSH IN CONNECTOR! Luckily nothing major happened!! I HATE THOSE CRAPPY PUSH IN CONNECTORS ON SOCKETS!!!!!! Thank God everyone is allrite!! Fish and tanks can be replaced, but your life can't!!
> 
> 
> Good luck on the rebuild!
> Drew


Hmmm. A loose connection might is often a source of fire, what with arcing and heat buildup from poor metal contact. I'm going to keep a closer eye on my connections. Good point!


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## iDriveOSX (Oct 2, 2005)

> Is it true that Corallife is not UL listed?


I don't see UL listed anywhere on my fixture, power cords, or any mention of it on the box or manaul. A quick check of there web site provides no information either. I have sent and e-mail to them inquiring about this.


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Well, we're finally back in the house. The restoration company has completed the majority of the work. Now it's just a matter of getting moved back in. We had removed nearly all of our possessions during the restoration and now its almost like moving in for the first time. My other tanks have been neglected during this period and need major work... I guess it'll be just a little longer before everything is back to normal.



Marc said:


> This picture got me thinking.
> In this picture, you can see a little burn mark on the side. Do you know what might have caused this?


Marc, great observations! The only thing I can think of is the fact that the cords from the Coralife come out of the fixture on the right, and hang off the right side of the tank. It's difficult to see, but there is an area on the right side of the stand that's burned that corresponds to the area you circled on the cabinet. Again, the only thing I can think of is the cords for the coralife fixture. Here's a picture that illustrates how everything was oriented before the fire. The ODNO fixture was on top of the tank, in front of the Coralife. The cord from the ODNO came out of the back center and was routed over the top of the Coralife.











iDriveOSX said:


> Quote:
> Is it true that Corallife is not UL listed?
> 
> I don't see UL listed anywhere on my fixture, power cords, or any mention of it on the box or manaul. A quick check of there web site provides no information either. I have sent and e-mail to them inquiring about this.


Let us know what happens with this. I'd be curious to know the answer as well.

*To everyone here:* Thanks again for all your support!

-Jeremiah


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## Goldfishcrazy11 (Nov 20, 2005)

To tell you the truth, *both* fixtures may have started the fire. The Coralife may have caught on fire, but then that set the ODNO on fire (the ODNO may have been overheated already).

Also, if you look at the last picture of the diagram where the tank was, you'll notice that power strips (which are hanging on the wall) have a few burnt spots on their cords.

Since the Coralife doesn't appear to be UL listed- that may have been because it didn't meet their regulations. If you could prove all of this, you could even file a lawsuit against them- and please don't yell at me for saying that, but I think it's possible.


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

That thought crossed my mind too. The ODNO may have just burned harder & more completely.


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## Spice (May 11, 2005)

*Sorry to hear this...*

Whoa!! Jeremiah, my best wishes to you in recovering from this devastation. I think you're a tough person to brave another fish tank setup. Marc gave fantastic insights using your photos to track the startup fire. I wish you lots of luck...you may have a litigation case with the manufacturer of the lighting structure.


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## iDriveOSX (Oct 2, 2005)

Here is the reponse from ESU (Coralife) regarding my inquiry on there fixtures being UL listed. 



> Dear Customer:
> 
> Thank you, for your interest in our Coralife Aqualight lighting systems. Currently they are not UL listed. Although we are in the process of getting them listed with Underwriters Labrotories which can take some time.
> 
> ...


It's a shame these fixtures are not already UL listed. Coralife in my opinion makes a great product and is a industry leader in this business.


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

*lawsuits and planted tank hobbiests*

I will caution you that if you sue them, they may just withdraw from making the lights altogether, leaving us with fewer choices for lighting planted tanks. Think about WHY you want to sue, if it is to punish the company for bad products, then those products may be withdrawn forever. If you want to be made whole on the losses you suffered, and the trouble it caused, you need to sue for that much money and no more. Extravagant claims will drive the company from the niche we all inhabit. 

And, with the overdriven light, I'll bet you have a very hard time proving what started the fire, for one fixture may have not been UL listed, but the other was clearly rigged in a way that is not typical, and thus is ALSO not UL listed.


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

Thank you Ann.


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

I actually am a business owner myself. We, as a business, have our ups and downs financially. From that perspective, and from personal experience, I am less inclined to take legal action in a situation like this, simply because I know how much of a headache it can be to be on the receiving end of one of these. Its not fun, and thus would not wish such a fate upon others. I'm sure their liability insurance would take care of the costs, but it doesn't get rid of the trouble of going through the whole ordeal. Even if it could be positively determined that it was the Coralife that caused the fire, I doubt it was due to any gross negligence on their part or anything. The whole ODNO thing makes it harder for me to blame them as well, even though it may not have been the cause. The main thing is that no one was hurt, and this situation may simply have been "one of those things." I'm just thankful things didn't end up worse. I may have felt differently about this, if the circumstances were different, but they are what they are. If anything, I may just bring the situation to their attention so that they are at least aware of the possibility of a problem with their fixtures...

-Jeremiah


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Your insurance will take care of any retribution from coralife if they think its a suspect in the fire. Thats called subrogation.... the insurance companies do it all the time. You probably wont see a dime from it except for what the insurance paid you to get your place back together and your personal property. The insurance will try to pin it on something if they can to recoup thier losses.


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## Spice (May 11, 2005)

crshadow said:


> The main thing is that no one was hurt, and this situation may simply have been "one of those things." I'm just thankful things didn't end up worse. I may have felt differently about this, if the circumstances were different, but they are what they are. If anything, I may just bring the situation to their attention so that they are at least aware of the possibility of a problem with their fixtures...
> 
> -Jeremiah



After re-reading this thread, I kind of agree with your resolve. Again, good luck. 

The lighting I have is a similar one to yours. I think they may be the same company who makes Orbit/Sunpaq. Anyway, this thread got me thinking...I now do not burn those lights no more than four hours per day. I notice one thing, near the fan output is a build up of dust; this is on both ends of the unit. It may be a good idea to take a vacuum cleaner while the lights are out (and unplugged) to take the vacuum cleaner and remove the dust buildup. Something to think about. **angie**


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Wow, I just saw this thread. While it still doesn't seem certain what the cause of fire really was, I hope this situation serves as a warning for people who try ODNO. I happen to be the one who introduced this technology to PT a few years ago, so I almost feel partly responsible! 
While a lot of people have had success with it (mine is running four years strong), there certainly is a significant element of risk when you use products in a manner the manufacturer did not intend. 

I'm going to go home and double check all my endcaps to make sure they are in good shape! I'd be willing to bet that a poor connection was the culprit. Particularly since the ODNO fixture never operated at hot temperatures. Any time you run more current through an endcap than was originally intended, the risk for arcing will increase for sure once corrosion sets in.

Best of luck with the rebuild process! Glad to see you're not giving up the hobby altogether.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Just ran into this thread. What an eye opener. I also want to echo the others who have said how fortunate the loss was just the tank and material possesions and not your family and the cat etc. 

When I was about 18 I had a car fire that set the side of my parent's house on fire. We first evacutated the house, then went in to get three Irish setter pups and their mom, and last my father went about (stupidly) trying to put out the car on fire with a garden hose while I was yelling to him to get away from it. About five minutes later the fire engines showed up just in time and all ended OK. 

Sounds like you really kept your head in a tramatic situation! I also completely respect your measured response and reasoning stated below. My hats off to you! Thanks for sharing and good luck with the next tank. bob 



crshadow said:


> I actually am a business owner myself. We, as a business, have our ups and downs financially. From that perspective, and from personal experience, I am less inclined to take legal action in a situation like this, simply because I know how much of a headache it can be to be on the receiving end of one of these. Its not fun, and thus would not wish such a fate upon others. I'm sure their liability insurance would take care of the costs, but it doesn't get rid of the trouble of going through the whole ordeal. Even if it could be positively determined that it was the Coralife that caused the fire, I doubt it was due to any gross negligence on their part or anything. The whole ODNO thing makes it harder for me to blame them as well, even though it may not have been the cause. The main thing is that no one was hurt, and this situation may simply have been "one of those things." I'm just thankful things didn't end up worse. I may have felt differently about this, if the circumstances were different, but they are what they are. If anything, I may just bring the situation to their attention so that they are at least aware of the possibility of a problem with their fixtures...
> 
> -Jeremiah


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Just thought I'd bump this thread up for the benefit of those who are new to the forum.



GulfCoastAquarian said:


> Wow, I just saw this thread. While it still doesn't seem certain what the cause of fire really was, I hope this situation serves as a warning for people who try ODNO. I happen to be the one who introduced this technology to PT a few years ago, so I almost feel partly responsible!
> While a lot of people have had success with it (mine is running four years strong), there certainly is a significant element of risk when you use products in a manner the manufacturer did not intend.
> 
> I'm going to go home and double check all my endcaps to make sure they are in good shape! I'd be willing to bet that a poor connection was the culprit. Particularly since the ODNO fixture never operated at hot temperatures. Any time you run more current through an endcap than was originally intended, the risk for arcing will increase for sure once corrosion sets in.
> ...


Sam, sorry I didn't see this post you made until just now. Don't worry you should not feel in any way even remotely responsible. The choice to go ODNO was mine alone. Again, it may not have been the ODNO fixture anyway. Corrosion in the Coralife endcaps may have been the cause, as I had previously had difficulty replacing bulbs (had to pull very hard to remove) in the Coralife before all this happened.

I will probably never know for certain which fixture was the cause of the fire, but at the very least I hope everyone is reminded to periodically check their equipment for signs of damage, whether caused by corrosion, or normal wear and tear. (I think back to all the other little equipment failures I have taken for granted, such as pump/filter failures, heater failures, etc and am glad nothing else ever turned into anything worse.) After a several month hiatus, I am finally just getting back into my planted tanks again. Hopefully nothing like this will happen again. 

-Jeremiah


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I sure hope you have renters insurance.


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

crshadow said:


> Just thought I'd bump this thread up for the benefit of those who are new to the forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man sorry about the problems you had. :icon_frow 
I am going to install or replace gfci now. 

I have a coralife timer like the one thats in that acrylic tank fire post. I wonder how many watts were going thru that thing, it looks like the always on outlets took the brunt of the blaze. This thread makes me think twice about getting any more tanks and safeguarding the ones I have now.


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## jake (Feb 20, 2004)

You think about a light fixture starting on fire and worry about it off and on all day, and then get hit by a bus a block from your house. Sometimes "you know what" just happens.

I'm glad to see you're bouncing back, crshadow.

Incidentally, ESU has given me a good tip on how to prevent that corrosion with the end caps. I was having a killer of a time removing bulbs from the fixture, and was cutting/splicing and then having them send me new endcaps.
Anyhow, the tip was to use a very small amount of electrician's grease and to smear it on the pins of the bulb. I can't think of the proper name for it right now, but at any Lowe's, Home improvement, etc. you should be able to ask for electrician's grease and they should know what you're talking about. Not that it would have prevented your tragedy, but just because you mentioned the problem.


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## snowy (Jun 4, 2006)

FWIW in Australia (where we run 240V) it is required that all electrical work, such as DIY ODNO assemblies, be carried out by licensed electricans (QLD Govt. info) - although this may not be the cause in all other countries. Of course it is still possible to walk into a hardware shop and buy all the parts and put it together yourself, but if there is a fire and if the fire investigators and insurance companies find out, your policies may be void - whether or not it was the cause of the DIY equiptment. This is much like car insurance being refuted for failing to notify them about traffic infringments.

This is not directed at the unfortunate thread starter, but a reminder to all to be aware of your local laws and regulations.


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

This should be a sticky right under the ODNO one. I am glad I saw this.


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

fshfanatic said:


> I sure hope you have renters insurance.


Fortunately, our property insurance was able to cover the damage to the apartment.



Brilliant said:


> Man sorry about the problems you had.
> I am going to install or replace gfci now.
> 
> I have a coralife timer like the one thats in that acrylic tank fire post. I wonder how many watts were going thru that thing, it looks like the always on outlets took the brunt of the blaze. This thread makes me think twice about getting any more tanks and safeguarding the ones I have now.


Good idea, better safe than sorry.



jake said:


> You think about a light fixture starting on fire and worry about it off and on all day, and then get hit by a bus a block from your house. Sometimes "you know what" just happens.
> 
> I'm glad to see you're bouncing back, crshadow.
> 
> ...


That's a great idea, I'll keep this in mind.



snowy said:


> This is not directed at the unfortunate thread starter, but a reminder to all to be aware of your local laws and regulations.


Good advice.



Brilliant said:


> This should be a sticky right under the ODNO one. I am glad I saw this.


Actually it was a sticky for a few months, and then it became a regular post again at some point. I'm not sure why... Maybe during a board upgrade or something?

-Jeremiah


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

Just bumping this for posterity. Please if you are concerned about aquarium fires do some web searching on *aquarium endcap fire* (I just got 1170 hits). This is not an isolated case. These are relatively common in the reef community, and it can happen with off the shelf products.

I have lived through an apartment fire, lost pretty much everything in it - as such I can empathize quite well with fire victims. That said, I really hate to see odno get blamed for something that quite possibly was not even a factor in why this tragedy happened.


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## metfan581 (Aug 19, 2005)

:icon_cry: :icon_cry: :icon_cry: 
Sry for ur loss
:icon_cry: :icon_cry: :icon_cry:


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

jake said:


> Incidentally, ESU has given me a good tip on how to prevent that corrosion with the end caps. I was having a killer of a time removing bulbs from the fixture, and was cutting/splicing and then having them send me new endcaps.
> Anyhow, the tip was to use a very small amount of electrician's grease and to smear it on the pins of the bulb. I can't think of the proper name for it right now, but at any Lowe's, Home improvement, etc. you should be able to ask for electrician's grease and they should know what you're talking about. ...


I think that the product is called NoAlox, used to prevent oxidization on aluminum wiring. Click here To see a description. 

I (unfortunately) have aluminum wiring in my house and use the stuff to make 'pigtails' between my aluminum wiring and copper wiring. It has prevented a lot of headaches and disasters and has saved me a pile of money.


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## Taz (May 20, 2006)

Ground Fault Circuit Interupter...This type of outlet detects Moisture in the electrical circuit and kills the power lots of building codes require them especially in Kitchens,Baths,Pools etc......


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

I've used regular old power strips for years without any problems (noting the long discussion elsewhere about the power strips). Ironically, the time I almost had an electrical fire involved a wired in appliance (water heater) and a failed water pipe. I just happened to be up at the time getting kids ready for school, otherwise we would have been still in bed (it was like 6 in the morning when I realized I smelled something electrical and started hunting it). Electricity and water don't mix but we tend to take for granted certain household appliances that combine the two. And regular ol' house lighting can short out, causing fires too.


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