# Ada mini m iwagumi "valley" journal



## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

DHG around rocks and on the background is a good idea. Mixing carpet plants gives a more natural effect. Personally I would put some more flat.


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## Tnalp (Mar 25, 2017)

Really liking your setup. I also considered placing rocks like you have.. the only problem i ran into was shadows. hc-"cuba" needs plenty of light to grow, so I'm not sure how the shadowing will affect its growth. I did not risk it and placed my stones in another fashion. Looks great though! Those knock off lily pipes work great. I have some off amazon and i really like them!


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

Thanks for the input guys. i added some small flat rocks in the valley hoping to provide a more natural look of a valley eroded by a river. I also placed a flat rock under the overhanging big rock on the right to eradicate the potential problem of HC not growing there. I ordered plants and they will arrive tomorrow:grin2:. Pearlweed was on sale 1 euro so naturally i could not resist buying it. i might add it to background to create the impression of a dense forest in the mountains.

Im new to high tech tanks and i have some questions still which i hope you can answer.

1. *lighting intensity*

Someone on this forum measured the following par values for the Chihiros led:

For the 13G (30cm / 12 inches from substrate middle line of the tank), dimming levels 1-7 on the included dimmer.
Level 1 - 8.5 Par
Level 2 - 30 Par
Level 3 - 49 Par
Level 4 - 70 Par
Level 5 - 90 Par
Level 6 - 105 Par
Level 7 - 130 Par

I was wondering which dimming level i should choose for my setup (will be planted with HC and DHG sp mini)

2. *Dry start*

i was planning to do a dry start and mist the plants twice a day and and aerate the tank once a day by lifting the plastic wrap. Will this be sufficient to provide sufficient water and prevent mold? also, how long should i keep the lights on (10 hours a day?) and on what setting?

3. *dosing*

I plan on using Potassium nitrate-potassium sulphate solution for macro and a bottle of Tetra plantamin for micro's (i have learned that this stuff is not the best but its what i got from the pet store when starting my low tech. and i rather not buy more stuff if not nessicary ). The tetra plantamin does not contain magnesium btw which im afraid might cause issues. My water has a DH of 8 so does that mean that ill be fine? 
I was wondering if i could get away with dosing micro's twice a week and the plantamin once a week since my plants are heavy root feeders. also ill be dosing excel once a day especially during the initial phase to deter algae. what do you guys recommend?

4*Add amano's?*

Will the red cherry shrimp be able to handle algae by themselves or would it be good to add 2-3 amano's to the tank (they eat more algae species right?).

Ill be sure tokeep you guys updated on the tank!


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

I think you should swap the outflow with the inflow if you put the diffuser there. Although this may work to just something you can try.

I did a dry start to and I am having barely algae issues, but I didn't like the look of the tank during dry start.
If you want to watch your tank already, the dry start is gonna ruin the looks; due the humidity and wrap over it.









If you don't mind dhg and hc are good plants to dry start with. Also good for rooting to avoid floating plants when flooding. During a dry start plants can handle a lot of light due the unlimited supply of co2. I started with 8 hours a day and ended up with 12 hours a day. I even saw people with 18 hours a day during dry start. Spraying once a day and putting the wrap off for 15 min a day is fine. Leave a small opening to prevent mold.









Keep the soil moist but no puddles this will cause mold! 

If you do the dry start make sure to blast a lot of co2 in there when you flood. The plants were used to unlimited co2 supply and do have less in the water. Don't add any livestock during this phase. Drop checker on yellow. 

Not 100% sure what par dhg needs but someone on this forum told the dhg started to do "well" at 100 par. DHG needs pretty high light to spread. I think lower will work but it takes more time. Personally I would start with like 40-50 par and see how it goes. 

Only use excel with a syringe if you have BBA


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

Thanks for the tip! makes sense that the co2 spreads more around the tank then. sadly i can't swap the pipes because it won't fit due to the slope. i might look into moving the co2 diffuser more to the back so its opposite the outflow pipe. regarding the dry start ill start with 12 hours then.


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Both RCS and amano's will eat algae. But amano's are the real work horses!! They eat it like crazy. You can keep them both  
I have 3 amano's and 10+ RCS in a 6.6 gallon and they are keeping it clean. Only a little bit of diatoms on the stones but nothing big.


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

Today i planted the tank and started the dry start! I bought 3 pots of HC since it was on sale and was only 2 euro per pot (im lucky to live in the Netherlands i guess since plants are very cheap here). It turned out i had enough to cover nearly the entire area that i wanted to plant! I just laid the HC as a carpet on the soil with the roots down. Since i played it as a carpet it was not possible to get the roots in the ground but i guess it will root by itself. Will this happen quickly or is it better to take it apart into small clumps and plant those? I also used pearlweed in the back, curious how it turns out















I used pieces of plastic plant pots as barriers between the different plants. I hope this will prevent the DHG from taking over the HC.









Since the tank is pretty much covered with plants i guess it will be a short dry start.


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Looks good and it is really full already! 

Make sure to plant them in the substrate (can be hard with HC). 

If you don't put them in the substrate you will get floaters when flooding. Or amano shrimp pulling them up! They pulled so many hair grass of mine.. 

2 euros per pot? That's not 1-2 grow vitro cups or is it? 

Good choice to use substrate dividers otherwise they will mix.


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

Nigel95 said:


> Looks good and it is really full already!
> 
> Make sure to plant them in the substrate (can be hard with HC).
> 
> ...


I read somewhere that you can just lay the carpets on the substrate and that the plants would root themselves. its hard to separate the clumps and it would be a lot of work to do this + plant each stem individually so it felt like it was worth it to try this first. Im guessing this is how the plant spreads in the wild so it makes sense that it will root in these conditions. Maybe someone with more experience can clear this up for me?
It are indeed regular pots i got. I bought from aquaplantsonline . I can really recommend it, the quality is great (Fresh plants, big portions and prices are low).


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Yeah prices are great there but with vitro cups you avoid the risk of getting snails with your plants. Costs are x 3 so yeah a lot... 

If you plant carpet plants and it is easy, you are doing it wrong . I didn't split everything aswell, still the monte carlo is spreading nicely. Just takes a little bit more time, but will definitely split more in future tanks.


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

Nigel95 said:


> Yeah prices are great there but with vitro cups you avoid the risk of getting snails with your plants. Costs are x 3 so yeah a lot...
> 
> If you plant carpet plants and it is easy, you are doing it wrong . I didn't split everything aswell, still the monte carlo is spreading nicely. Just takes a little bit more time, but will definitely split more in future tanks.


I did some searching and it made me doubt whether it will have good root growth if i don't bury it in the substrate. So, decided not to risk it i took it all out and devided it in small clumps and single stems. Even though it is a very small area it still took me a good 1.5 hours to plant everything :|


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## McCarthy (Mar 13, 2017)

Great looking tank! What eBay pipes did you buy? Can you past a photo please?


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Stijn Grundeman said:


> I did some searching and it made me doubt whether it will have good root growth if i don't bury it in the substrate. So, decided not to risk it i took it all out and devided it in small clumps and single stems. Even though it is a very small area it still took me a good 1.5 hours to plant everything :|


Good choice  good luck!


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

McCarthy said:


> Great looking tank! What eBay pipes did you buy? Can you past a photo please?


It does not allow me to link to eBay but i got them from a seller called elec-mall. So i guess you can find them easily.

Here's a pic of them on my tank:









The quality seems fine and they look absolutely great in the tank. The only problem is that they are not completely straight. But this is not really noticeable when they are in the tank, so its not a big issue in my opinion.


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## McCarthy (Mar 13, 2017)

Stijn Grundeman said:


> It does not allow me to link to eBay but i got them from a seller called elec-mall. So i guess you can find them easily.
> 
> Here's a pic of them on my tank:
> 
> ...



Thank you, I found it and ordered a set.

I just received my ADA pipes. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1154098-cliff-plateau.html#post10173034

I will compare them and see if the ADA's are worth 10 times the price.

Needed a backup anyways, I bet I'll managed to shatter them one day.


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

A little over 2 weeks later the dry start is coming along nicely. The roots of the HC are a little over 1cm long. Is this sufficient? or is it best to wait longer. There is sufficient covering so im anxious to flood the tank


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

*Ada mini m iwagumi &quot;valley&quot; journal*

Wait a bit longer, patience is best! Give it a month and you may have a full carpet by the time you flood. Like I know it's covered now, but in a month you will literally have a lush green carpet, rather than just pure coverage.
It's a good scape by the way! The largest rock is perfectly and the focal point, and nice use of negative space in the middle. Also, DHG will eventually spread to the other stuff no matter how hard you try, it sends runners under the substrate. Additionally, for future referance you can lay down plants like HC on the substrate to root down, only if you are doing a dry start like you are. They'll root by themselves eventually and that's what I do for my emersed setups. IMO it's the best way to plant them for dry starts/emersed growth cus I'm lazy and you get a lot of coverage quickly. If you are flooding immediately you have to plant them into the substrate.
Agree with Nigel don't blast too much light in, the plants you chose aren't super light hungry 40-50 umol of PAR should be sufficient. If it is growing under whatever setting it is now, it should be fine when you flood too. I have a DHG carpet in my 60P and I was around 30 umol of PAR and it spread at one point. (I use the Chihros 60cm and had it at level 2 for a while)
Another thing your fertilising won't have to be too heavy, carpeting plants aren't super demanding and Aquasoil is actually really nutrient heavy especially for the first month or so. You could do a more lean regime like PPS-Pro or follow ADA's target ppms for nutrients and you would be golden. The micro mix you have should be fine your GH seems high enough that you won't need extra Mg. Although sometimes you can have a high GH and low Mg but I think you'll be fine. I usually just go for 3 days macros, 3 days micros. Excel won't be needed just use it if you need to kill BGA or BBA, works like a charm, again like Nigel was saying.
1 BPS of CO2 should be more than enough although of course bubble counters are all made different so none are equal. A drop checker with 4dKH water may help to get a (slightly) more accurate reading.
Sorry for the late reply to everything just found your thread! Great tank by the way, excited to see this fill in.

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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

Opare said:


> Wait a bit longer, patience is best! Give it a month and you may have a full carpet by the time you flood. Like I know it's covered now, but in a month you will literally have a lush green carpet, rather than just pure coverage.
> It's a good scape by the way! The largest rock is perfectly and the focal point, and nice use of negative space in the middle. Also, DHG will eventually spread to the other stuff no matter how hard you try, it sends runners under the substrate. Additionally, for future referance you can lay down plants like HC on the substrate to root down, only if you are doing a dry start like you are. They'll root by themselves eventually and that's what I do for my emersed setups. IMO it's the best way to plant them for dry starts/emersed growth cus I'm lazy and you get a lot of coverage quickly. If you are flooding immediately you have to plant them into the substrate.
> Agree with Nigel don't blast too much light in, the plants you chose aren't super light hungry 40-50 umol of PAR should be sufficient. If it is growing under whatever setting it is now, it should be fine when you flood too. I have a DHG carpet in my 60P and I was around 30 umol of PAR and it spread at one point. (I use the Chihros 60cm and had it at level 2 for a while)
> Another thing your fertilising won't have to be too heavy, carpeting plants aren't super demanding and Aquasoil is actually really nutrient heavy especially for the first month or so. You could do a more lean regime like PPS-Pro or follow ADA's target ppms for nutrients and you would be golden. The micro mix you have should be fine your GH seems high enough that you won't need extra Mg. Although sometimes you can have a high GH and low Mg but I think you'll be fine. I usually just go for 3 days macros, 3 days micros. Excel won't be needed just use it if you need to kill BGA or BBA, works like a charm, again like Nigel was saying.
> ...


Thanks a lot for your tips! I guess the DHG will not be stopped by the barriers i put in the soil. It will be interesting to see how long it will take for it to conquer the rest of the tank. I probably want to rescape the tank in about half a year so until then ill be able to enjoy a nice mixed carpet:grin2:. Good tips on the dosing as well! sadly i don't have testing kits (with the exeption of a co2 testing kits) and i don't plan on buying them if not necessary since it will cost me like 40 bucks . The fact that such kits are not needed for EI dosing is appealing to me. Also, dosing ferts 6 times a week (3 macro, 3 micro) is quite a lot of work. Considering the shrimp need to be fed only once a week i was wondering if i could get away with dosing only once or twice a week. In that case ill only need to care for the tank in the weekend (feeding shrimp, water changes and dosing ferts), which would be very convenient. Do you think i can get away with dosing macro's on saturday (after water change) and micro's on sunday?


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

*Ada mini m iwagumi &quot;valley&quot; journal*

Hah to be honest it'll look fine mixed because DHG won't battle with the HC if you get me, they grow differently.
You don't actually need test kits for those either, I don't use test kits for nutrients. Just use Rotalabutterfly.com to see how much you need to dose (like ml) of something to reach the level for the specific regime like EI or the PPS-Pro. 
Trust me dosing won't take long maybe a minute everyday hahaha. I just get a syringe, open a bottle and squirt, the only reason it may take long is if I end up watching the tank afterwards. You could just dose once a week but I wouldn't dose a whole week of EI in one day. Maybe just do 1/3 EI and just dose it on those 2 days (micros and macros seperately), full EI isn't super necessary for your tank. Things like feeding fish/shrimp and dosing really take no time at all though, even if you have a long day at work you can do it just before you sleep and it takes tops 5 minutes if you are messing about.
EDIT: Side note you will need ammonia and nitrite test kits though, Aquasoil releases quite a bit of it it may not be as bad because you dry started but it's still something to check for. Ammonia and nitrite test kits are must haves IMO anyway cus you need to know when your tank is cycled and safe for livestock. Of course you can sort of eyeball that it's gonna take about a month, maybe less before it's fully cycled and Aquasoil is no longer doing the Ammonia thing, but it's better to be safe than sorry with a bunch of dead stuff.

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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

Opare said:


> Hah to be honest it'll look fine mixed because DHG won't battle with the HC if you get me, they grow differently.
> You don't actually need test kits for those either, I don't use test kits for nutrients. Just use Rotalabutterfly.com to see how much you need to dose (like ml) of something to reach the level for the specific regime like EI or the PPS-Pro.
> Trust me dosing won't take long maybe a minute everyday hahaha. I just get a syringe, open a bottle and squirt, the only reason it may take long is if I end up watching the tank afterwards. You could just dose once a week but I wouldn't dose a whole week of EI in one day. Maybe just do 1/3 EI and just dose it on those 2 days (micros and macros seperately), full EI isn't super necessary for your tank. Things like feeding fish/shrimp and dosing really take no time at all though, even if you have a long day at work you can do it just before you sleep and it takes tops 5 minutes if you are messing about.
> EDIT: Side note you will need ammonia and nitrite test kits though, Aquasoil releases quite a bit of it it may not be as bad because you dry started but it's still something to check for. Ammonia and nitrite test kits are must haves IMO anyway cus you need to know when your tank is cycled and safe for livestock. Of course you can sort of eyeball that it's gonna take about a month, maybe less before it's fully cycled and Aquasoil is no longer doing the Ammonia thing, but it's better to be safe than sorry with a bunch of dead stuff.
> ...


 Thanks for the response! ill go with 2 instances of micro dosing and 2 instances of macro dosing then. Do you mean that i can dose the micro and macro seperatly but on the same day?(so two dosing days) or on different days (4 dosing days). regarding the ammonia and nitrite kits, you are right, i should get those.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Mmm TBH you could dose them on the same day but I wouldn't do it at the same time give it a few hours in between. TBH choose what is most convenient for you.


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

I will do that. Thanks a lot for all your input. Its been very helpful!


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

No worries! Hope everything goes well.


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## McCarthy (Mar 13, 2017)

This needs an update in form of a photo.


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

McCarthy said:


> This needs an update in form of a photo.


It sure is time for an update!

































The dry start has been going for 3 weeks now. the HC is growing nicely and seems to be spreading fast now. However, there is some mold/fungus in the lower left corner (see pic). it seems the tank was a little too humid. i spray the tank less often now and leave the wrap off for about half an hour each day. Im afraid though that it will spread and since the HC has filled in nicely im contemplating if i should flood the tank to get rid of the problem. What do you guys think? will the measures be enough to eradicate the fungus or should i flood? i was originally planning to continue the dry start for another week.


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Did you left a small opening during the dry start? That could avoid the fungus maybe. I would flood it tbh much nicer to watch the tank


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

i did, but i think it got to humid regardless. i misted 1/2 times a day which was probably too much. anyway its only a very small part of the tank. I just hope it won't spread if the risk is too high it might be better to just flood the tank i thought.


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Stijn Grundeman said:


> i did, but i think it got to humid regardless. i misted 1/2 times a day which was probably too much. anyway its only a very small part of the tank. I just hope it won't spread if the risk is too high it might be better to just flood the tank i thought.


I misted mine once a day with a small opening had no problems. I don't see any problems flooding it. It's almost full the carpet. Don't forget to blast co2 or your plants will melt.


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## Stijn Grundeman (Feb 21, 2017)

I flood the tank! 

Pearlweed was not doing well in the dry start and hc was about filled in so it was time to flood it. I added quite a lot of co2 and the drop checker is lime green. Is this sufficient or should i go higher on the Co2? I was also wondering if should start dosing ferts already, or should i wait until the tank is cycled. ill be doing waterchanges everyday in the first week and every 2 days in the second week to deal with the ammonia leeching of the aqua soil.


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Your water change schedule seems good. 

I dose ferts right at the start, but there are also people that will say aqua soil will provide plenty of ferts. Better safe than sorry IMO. With you doing water changes you keep resetting the fert levels so it wouldn't harm.

Tank is looking good 

I would put the drop checker on yellow for at least the first week. Keeps the algae away. Doesn't matter with no livestock in it. Plants had unlimited supply of co2 while doing dry start and now they have much less.


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