# Can i keep BKK with blue bolts or ruby reds??



## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

Hi, 
Just wondering, can I keep BKK with blue bolts or ruby reds without them crossing breeding and making hybrids?


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## Puddles (Jan 5, 2013)

They don't make hybrids. They produce normal taiwan bees, but they may be different colors or patterns than their parents.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

They are all the same species (different color,) and since to my knowledge they do not breed true, they are usually kept together anyway.


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## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

PuddlesAqua said:


> They don't make hybrids. They produce normal taiwan bees, but they may be different colors or patterns than their parents.


What do you mean by normal bee's? What would that look like?






Soothing Shrimp said:


> They are all the same species (different color,) and since to my knowledge they do not breed true, they are usually kept together anyway.


They don't breed true? What do you mean by that? Like do you mean like on a BKK some babies will have more white then others? And if I kept let's say BKK and blue bolts together, will they mix together to make a strange colored baby?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

An Extreme BKK, for instance, may produce BKKs with one or two bars. They could produce Blue Bolts. They could produce Reds. A Blue Bolt could produce BKK. Et al.

That's what they mean when they say they don't breed true. They'll produce - again - other kinds of Taiwan Bees.


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## Puddles (Jan 5, 2013)

They are all pure taiwan bees and will produce pure taiwan bees. The babies will be different colors, some red wine, some panda, some bb, some bkk, etc.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Ekliu for instance started out with 6kk and 2 pandas and wound up with:

"Ruby Red Extreme
Pandas (black and white, no blue)
Blue Bolts (various grades)
Ruby Red
Wine Red
BKK
Shadow Panda"


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

My Blue bolt female mated with a 2 bar BKK male....offspring were mostly 1 and 2 bar BKKs, a panda Bkk, and 2 wine red pandas!

So yes they will cross, but you will get a mix of different patterns and colors. If you just want Blue bolts, then keep them separate and only breed BB x BB.

However, as I suspect the origin of a BB is Snow white Crystal shrimp x BKK, and the offspring came out blue tinged, and then it was recrossed possibly several times to enhance the blue color....you may also end up
with a BKK from the BB x BB cross (because you don't know what's in the background genetics) Just my theory.


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## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> An Extreme BKK, for instance, may produce BKKs with one or two bars. They could produce Blue Bolts. They could produce Reds. A Blue Bolt could produce BKK. Et al.
> 
> That's what they mean when they say they don't breed true. They'll produce - again - other kinds of Taiwan Bees.





PuddlesAqua said:


> They are all pure taiwan bees and will produce pure taiwan bees. The babies will be different colors, some red wine, some panda, some bb, some bkk, etc.





Soothing Shrimp said:


> Ekliu for instance started out with 6kk and 2 pandas and wound up with:
> 
> "Ruby Red Extreme
> Pandas (black and white, no blue)
> ...





pinoyghost2 said:


> My Blue bolt female mated with a 2 bar BKK male....offspring were mostly 1 and 2 bar BKKs, a panda Bkk, and 2 wine red pandas!
> 
> So yes they will cross, but you will get a mix of different patterns and colors. If you just want Blue bolts, then keep them separate and only breed BB x BB.
> 
> ...


Wow that is actually really cool!! So If I got a bunch of BKK I can end up with ruby reds? That's cool. But one more thing. If I kept them together and they cross bred they can't produce like a ugly brown one corrrect?


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I have not seen this happen, so I would say NO.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I don't think brown has even popped up yet.


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## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

Haha i just dont want any ugly hybrids. But that won't happen right?






Soothing Shrimp said:


> I don't think brown has even popped up yet.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Have you kept sensitive shrimp before? If so, for how long? What kind of shrimp?

I ask because it would not be a good idea to delve into expensive, sensitive Taiwan Bees unless you have a lot of experience under your belt.



mattsoccer20 said:


> Haha i just dont want any ugly hybrids. But that won't happen right?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1 great advice. $7 sensitive shrimp such as oebts is a lot cheaper than $20+ to get your bearings with. When you succeed with that, sell 'em and you have the money for TBs.


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## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Have you kept sensitive shrimp before? If so, for how long? What kind of shrimp?
> 
> I ask because it would not be a good idea to delve into expensive, sensitive Taiwan Bees unless you have a lot of experience under your belt.





Soothing Shrimp said:


> +1 great advice. $7 sensitive shrimp such as oebts is a lot cheaper than $20+ to get your bearings with. When you succeed with that, sell 'em and you have the money for TBs.


I bred OEBT for a couple months but then they all died off because well I didn't know before but I think there temp was too high


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

You're definitely not ready for Taiwan Bees if you're not sure what happened with your OEBT.

You may be ready for something like Crystal Red Shrimp after doing a few weeks of reading up on them, though.


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## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

No I said I didn't know what happened what happened to them until I did research and found out about the temp thing. I bought them with out doing really any research





​


somewhatshocked said:


> You're definitely not ready for Taiwan Bees if you're not sure what happened with your OEBT.
> 
> You may be ready for something like Crystal Red Shrimp after doing a few weeks of reading up on them, though.


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## mjbn (Dec 14, 2011)

But then again, knowing the mistake is just half of it. I feel like you should give OEBT's or CRS or any other slightly less sensitive shrimp than Taiwan's another try. If you are successful with those, then take the next step. 

As nice as those Taiwan bees are, unless you have a bottomless pit for a wallet, it's not worth rushing in just because you "know" what parameters to keep them in. Without experience in the long term, it's really a gamble.

Even some experienced shrimp keepers are unable to get Taiwan's to survive, even though they are successful with other shrimp. 

Start slow, then work your way up. I learned the hard way.


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## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

Hmm I don't know. Are PBL CBS or PRL CRS harder to keep then normal CBS and CRS or the same? 






mjbn said:


> But then again, knowing the mistake is just half of it. I feel like you should give OEBT's or CRS or any other slightly less sensitive shrimp than Taiwan's another try. If you are successful with those, then take the next step.
> 
> As nice as those Taiwan bees are, unless you have a bottomless pit for a wallet, it's not worth rushing in just because you "know" what parameters to keep them in. Without experience in the long term, it's really a gamble.
> 
> ...


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Depends upon the lineage and your source. Probably not something to jump into until you've really mastered parameters and have experience under your belt.


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## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

Well I am good at keeps the params, I got a discus tank haha






somewhatshocked said:


> Depends upon the lineage and your source. Probably not something to jump into until you've really mastered parameters and have experience under your belt.


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## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Ekliu for instance started out with 6kk and 2 pandas and wound up with:
> 
> "Ruby Red Extreme
> Pandas (black and white, no blue)
> ...


The tank he's keeping those all in must look amazing.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Keeping Discus will give you a decent feel for parameters. But they're still easier to maintain than parameters for sensitive shrimp. Unless you've done so for a while.

With sensitive shrimp, you have to have a solid grasp on KH, GH, TDS, temperature, knowing what you can't add to the tank, etc. 



mattsoccer20 said:


> Well I am good at keeps the params, I got a discus tank haha


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## mjbn (Dec 14, 2011)

Well like I said, if you're willing to risk some big $$$ by jumping the gun on pricy shrimp without full experience on keeping sensitive shrimp**, keyword sensitive shrimp, then there's not much stopping it. lol But what harm can starting with cheaper caridina species first do?


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## mattsoccer20 (Nov 8, 2011)

Very true. Maybe I will test out on some snow whites or CBS or CRS first haha








mjbn said:


> Well like I said, if you're willing to risk some big $$$ by jumping the gun on pricy shrimp without full experience on keeping sensitive shrimp**, keyword sensitive shrimp, then there's not much stopping it. lol But what harm can starting with cheaper caridina species first do?


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