# Shocked! No nano size rasboras recommended?



## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

AqAdvisor.com is garbage. Many of us keep CPDs in tanks as small as 3.5 or even 2.5 gallons without issue (although the latter is certainly pushing it). "Tiny rasboras" such as B. brigittae, are probably one of the best candidates for a tank such as this. You're better off listening to forum members with real-life experience than a poorly-programmed Java applet roud:


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> AqAdvisor.com is garbage. Many of us keep CPDs in tanks as small as 3.5 or even 2.5 gallons without issue (although the latter is certainly pushing it). "Tiny rasboras" such as B. brigittae, are probably one of the best candidates for a tank such as this. You're better off listening to forum members with real-life experience than a poorly-programmed Java applet roud:


Kiran, you're going to really get a kick out of this. This is the honest truth. I didn't know anything about AqAdvisor until tonight when I found a guy who mentioned it in this post:
http://plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1355820&postcount=4 

How's that for irony? 

I haven't commented on any of your threads, but I've looked at your journal many times. You really did a great job on your MINI. After this Petco bookshelf experiment, I plan to move on to an ADA tank and go completely high tech. I was initially thinkng a MINI M or MINI L, and got a quote from Frank for a complete MINI M, but I may go ahead and move up to a larger aquarium and display it in our great room.

If this was your aquarium, would you stock it with B. brigittae?

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.


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## aweeby (Oct 1, 2011)

I stocked my 5.5g with ember tetras because they were cheaper at the time. when i think of it, i really am glad i went with them. IMO in slightly 'larger' nano tanks, the micro rasboras don't make much of a visual impact. I'm liking them so far, and they supposedly tend to stay smaller than the neons and other common fodder. they school pretty tightly too. 

I've always liked the look of rummynose tetras and coral pencilfish... but I suppose that's up to you and your wallet.

btw i wouldn't say aqadvisor's 'complete rubbish', but rather, more like a rule of thumb for extreme newbs, ranking some where between guessing with an average IQ and asking LFS employees. 

It's certainly better than nothing, and a decent reference, but it is lacking, to be sure.


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## CatB (Jan 29, 2012)

i think AQ advisor's pretty good for an idea of how many fish you can cram in your tank with what filter, but there's only so much a machine can do to recommend proper fish for your tank


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

From my limited research, it looks like even if I wanted corydoras hastatus, I would have a very hard time finding them. They are a really neat cory in that they don't stay on the bottom and they shoal really nicely. I'm surprised they haven't become more popular.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

im sure you could find them on aquabid, heres what one search brought up:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishc&1342939796
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishc&1342940408
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishc&1343190644


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

aweeby said:


> btw i wouldn't say aqadvisor's 'complete rubbish', but rather, more like a rule of thumb for extreme newbs, ranking some where between guessing with an average IQ and asking LFS employees.


Given what I've encountered at my LFS, that would make it pretty much rubbish. :hihi: No, seriously, I can see where it could still be useful. I liked how it showed the ideal water parameters of my selection and gave warnings where there might be possible conflicts.



CatB said:


> i think AQ advisor's pretty good for an idea of how many fish you can cram in your tank with what filter, but there's only so much a machine can do to recommend proper fish for your tank


If little else, it sent me off learning about a new fish I knew nothing about, so that's a good thing.

Do any of you have Emerald Dwarf Rasbora (Microrasbora erythromicron)? I really like these and CPD's, but I understand they spend most of their time hiding out. 

I know a lot of you guys keep shrimp, and I'm going to need some algae control. What shrimp would you recommend for a beginner? I'm not interested in breeding them at this point, and I'm not interested in any of the exotic high-value shrimp at this point.

Thanks!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

SaltyNC said:


> What are your opinions about keeping a small school of 5-7 Corydoras hastatus in the tank, below?


They would go great in your tank. The only problems I've had with them is keeping them alive. For some reason, all the pygmy cories don't do well in my tanks. I finally had to let go of the idea I'd eve be able to keep them.

As far as AqAdvisor, I just put in my info, and it claimed my 75g was already overstocked at 141% which is absurd. I only have a skeleton crew of fish in the tank right now! If I didn't know better, I'd swear it's using the 1" per gallon rule or something similar.

Having said that, I don't think it's a totally bad utility. It is our job to acquire as much information as we can in order to made educated decisions. That site is helpful in the process of information gathering as proven by this thread. However, in the end, we are each responsible to make our own decisions regardless of what others might offer as suggestions.

We should neither summarily disregard nor blindly follow the advice of others no matter who or what the source.


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## Ozydego (Aug 29, 2011)

Also, keep in mind with a heavily planted tank that just because your "filter" can only handle so many fish, the plants filter as well and do an amazing job. A well stocked subtrate with bacteria does wonders as well. I would not use a program to accurately judge what a nature aquarium can handle. Rather, I look at what the individual fish need and want. Neons for example need a large school and get big enough that you will never see them in a planted aquarium under say 8 gallons. Rasboras sure, ember tetras, absolutely. The "micro" fish are what can handle the smaller space and I would not focus on the capacity of a filter to judge what to stock. For example, there is a member that stocks 25 B. brigittae in a nano tank and they are doing well. brightly colored and no jumpers... a good sign of low stress on the fish. I personally stock 15 emerald eye rasboras in my 5 gallon and before when I followed the "rules" and only had 5, I had jumpers constantly. Now with 15, no jumpers since their addition.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> They would go great in your tank. The only problems I've had with them is keeping them alive. For some reason, all the pygmy cories don't do well in my tanks. I finally had to let go of the idea I'd eve be able to keep them.


Do you recall what you fed them? I was reading somewhere that they really thrive with a live diet. They also prefer cooler water.



Ozydego said:


> Also, keep in mind with a heavily planted tank that just because your "filter" can only handle so many fish, the plants filter as well and do an amazing job. ...snip.... For example, there is a member that stocks 25 B. brigittae in a nano tank and they are doing well. brightly colored and no jumpers... a good sign of low stress on the fish. I personally stock 15 emerald eye rasboras in my 5 gallon and before when I followed the "rules" and only had 5, I had jumpers constantly. Now with 15, no jumpers since their addition.


Good point about the filter. Right now, my biomass is really low, but it will eventually get there. I'm adding some HM "bushes" behind my rocks, so that will soak up a lot more than my hairgrass carpet.

That's an amazing number of fish for a nano. I bet it looks incredible. Do you have any pics of your emerald eye rasboros?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I understand CPDs aren't truly schooling fish, and keeping a pair is doable in a 5g. They get to about 1" fully grown, very vibrant and a little less shy than the mosquito rasboras.

I have 4 in my 9 and 4 in my 20 right now. Thinking about getting a couple more to keep pairs in my 5g tanks, need something to eat the worms to float out of the substrate.

Here is a male sleeping:










and a female:











Corydoras require a school to exhibit their natural behavior (10+). You can keep a few, but they would panic and hide all the time. In terms of shyness, habrosus is more active/outgoing than pygmaeus and hastatus.


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## Ozydego (Aug 29, 2011)

i was slightly off on the rasboras used by Frank, here is the thread where he introduces his maculates and talks about them in a nature aquarium. That whole thread is awesome for advice and knowledge

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1826911#post1826911


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## Kworker (Oct 28, 2011)

Aqadvisor is good as guideline but ultimately you need to plan and research.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Ozydego said:


> here is the thread where he introduces his maculates and talks about them in a nature aquarium. That whole thread is awesome for advice and knowledge


Thanks for the link. That thread is awesome. I read the entire thing a week or two ago, and I've been following along ever since. I like the look of those, as well. Also, I liked your emerald eye rasboras, too. Decisions, Decisions. 



Kworker said:


> Aqadvisor is good as guideline but ultimately you need to plan and research.


Thanks, Kworker. It is a handy tool, even if it isn't 100% accurate. I had an ethics professor in college years ago say, "When in doubt, you must follow the safer course." I think that's the approach Aqadvisor follows. It's the absolute safest course...and then, it probably just gets it wrong sometime, too. 




xenxes said:


> I understand CPDs aren't truly schooling fish, and keeping a pair is doable in a 5g. They get to about 1" fully grown, very vibrant and a little less shy than the mosquito rasboras.
> 
> I have 4 in my 9 and 4 in my 20 right now. Thinking about getting a couple more to keep pairs in my 5g tanks, need something to eat the worms to float out of the substrate.
> 
> Corydoras require a school to exhibit their natural behavior (10+). You can keep a few, but they would panic and hide all the time. In terms of shyness, habrosus is more active/outgoing than pygmaeus and hastatus.


Xenxes, you're not supposed to have worms in your substrate. :icon_wink Beautiful fish when they get their colors on. I appreciate the info on the corys.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I like worms, they compost down waste for the plants. No different than my compost bin outside. Decaying matter + worms = organic ferts! Live food too for when I upset the dirt.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

xenxes said:


> I like worms, they compost down waste for the plants. No different than my compost bin outside. Decaying matter + worms = organic ferts! Live food too for when I upset the dirt.


I saw your balcony via the link in your sig and your comment about fish food. Is that one clear container green water for daphnia?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Yea but I haven't use the daphnia in a while, haven't fed or did water changes in those green jars, but there's still a small colony in each. Pretty hardy.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

SaltyNC said:


> Do you recall what you fed them? I was reading somewhere that they really thrive with a live diet. They also prefer cooler water.


Well, that may be why I can't keep pygmy cories alive very well. I do not feed live food, and my tank tend to be on the warm side.


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## jemminnifener (Nov 23, 2011)

xenxes, I didn't realize female CPDs looked different from male CPDs. I've only ever seen males. The female has great colors and patterns as well!


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

SaltyNC said:


> Kiran, you're going to really get a kick out of this. This is the honest truth. I didn't know anything about AqAdvisor until tonight when I found a guy who mentioned it in this post:
> http://plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1355820&postcount=4
> 
> How's that for irony?
> ...


Alright, you got me :hihi:

That post was made over a year ago, when I was still largely in the process of learning. Thanks for the compliments. Since then, I've learned from my own experiences as well as others' as I suggested in my first post on this thread. Took me a while to realize that I was reinventing the wheel and being stubborn. 

If it were my aquarium, I would stock it with B. brigittae, yes.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> Alright, you got me :hihi:
> 
> That post was made over a year ago, when I was still largely in the process of learning. Thanks for the compliments. Since then, I've learned from my own experiences as well as others' as I suggested in my first post on this thread. Took me a while to realize that I was reinventing the wheel and being stubborn.
> 
> If it were my aquarium, I would stock it with B. brigittae, yes.


I figured that was the case. You're still the man! :wink:

I'm definitely leaning toward the rasboras, now. They really have the size in keeping with the scale of the tank. I have a little more time to decide.

I noticed you were from Columbia. Have you ever been to Four Holes Swamp (Francis Beidler Forest)? That's a neat place.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

SaltyNC said:


> I figured that was the case. You're still the man! :wink:
> 
> I'm definitely leaning toward the rasboras, now. They really have the size in keeping with the scale of the tank. I have a little more time to decide.
> 
> I noticed you were from Columbia. Have you ever been to Four Holes Swamp (Francis Beidler Forest)? That's a neat place.


Haha, awesome :thumbsup:

Good choice. I'm switching my ADA tank to B. brigittae as well. CPDs just don't do the trick.

Hmm, no, I haven't. I know Congaree Swamp is pretty neat, I'll have to check that one out though!


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

I have fourteen b.brigittae in a 25g and love these guys. Too bad they're so hard to come by, but there's also other boraras species out there ...http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2713


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## FriendsNotFood (Sep 21, 2010)

I'd vote for ember tetra if you have soft enough water for them to color up. You'd have to get 25 microrasboras in there just to notice them  They tend to wander all over the tank if they're the only fish in there. The 6.6 Petco tank is huge, I have 11 b. merah in a 2.5 gallon and it barely looks stocked. 

P.S. I have that tank and what you did with it is stunning.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I kept Boraras maculatus in my 5g with my RCS colony for a long time. I absolutely loved them! They did not eat the shrimp, not even the babies (or not enough to be noticed). I had about a dozen in the tank. They were so small, it was perfectly fine to have that many in the tank. The only issue was that I had to feed them fry food or powderize other foods so it would be small enough for them to eat, but I really didn't mind.

I'd get more if I could find them again. The last time I tried to get some was from a hobbyist who was trying to run a business. He sent me what he believed to be B. brigittae, but they never colored up like my original B. maculatus. I gave up after that.

I think the B. maculatus would be stunning in the 6.6g bookshelf tank. It could easily hold a dozen fish and the scale of the fish and overall shoal would fit the tank dimensions perfectly. Hmm... Now you're giving me ideas for my own 6.6g bookshelf tanks!


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

exv152 said:


> I have fourteen b.brigittae in a 25g and love these guys. Too bad they're so hard to come by, but there's also other boraras species out there...


Do you have any pics of them from a distance...like a full tank shot? I see lots of close up pics, but I'd love to see how they look in an aquarium where I can get a good sense of their scale. In a 29g, I guess they look like red rice on a football field. :wink: Well, maybe not quite that small.



FriendsNotFood said:


> I'd vote for ember tetra if you have soft enough water for them to color up. You'd have to get 25 microrasboras in there just to notice them  They tend to wander all over the tank if they're the only fish in there. The 6.6 Petco tank is huge, I have 11 b. merah in a 2.5 gallon and it barely looks stocked.
> 
> P.S. I have that tank and what you did with it is stunning.


FriendsNotFood, first, thank you so much for the kind words. I've seen CPDs, but I've never seen the other micros in real life. I would love to have a large number of tiny fish. Twenty five might be more than I can handle, though.  Ember tetras have been on my short list for a very long time. Decisions, decisions.



Complexity said:


> I kept Boraras maculatus in my 5g with my RCS colony for a long time. I absolutely loved them! They did not eat the shrimp, not even the babies (or not enough to be noticed). I had about a dozen in the tank. They were so small, it was perfectly fine to have that many in the tank. The only issue was that I had to feed them fry food or powderize other foods so it would be small enough for them to eat, but I really didn't mind.
> 
> I'd get more if I could find them again. The last time I tried to get some was from a hobbyist who was trying to run a business. He sent me what he believed to be B. brigittae, but they never colored up like my original B. maculatus. I gave up after that.
> 
> I think the B. maculatus would be stunning in the 6.6g bookshelf tank. It could easily hold a dozen fish and the scale of the fish and overall shoal would fit the tank dimensions perfectly. Hmm... Now you're giving me ideas for my own 6.6g bookshelf tanks!


You have a 6.6, too? Wow, I'm beginning to think half the people here started with one of these or tried one at some point. Cool! If you do decide to do it, please post some pics. I'd love to see what you come up with. BTW, I saw your polished CO2 tank. Wheweee! That was fancy! See, that would work for you, but that wouldn't work for me. If I did it, it would be really ugly...because I'd see my reflection in that thing everyday. :wink: I like the maculatus, too. I was thinking about trying to do a daphnia culture and green water tank for feeding the daphnia, but it might get to be more trouble than I want to handle long term. Do you recall what kind of food you crushed for them when not feeding fry food?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I bought several of the 6.6g tanks. Had them shipped to me (free shipping). They're not just great for nano tanks, but they're great for QT tanks. So I stocked up. I have two running right now.

I'm not the one with the polished CO2 cylinder (wish I was!). You're thinking of HD. He did an amazing job on it.

I fed the B. maculatus whatever I was feeding my other fish. I have a little pestle and mortar that I use to grind the NLS pellets into a powder. Very simple to do.

When I got some very young juvenile Pelvicachromis shipped to me, they hadn't been acclimated to fry food yet. The breeder was still feeding them baby brine shrimp. I considered making my own, but with cats and all, I thought better of it and decided to go for the Ocean Nutrition Instant Baby Brine Shrimp. Absolutely loved it! Just bought my second bottle for my new fry. I'm doing enough as it is with all my tanks. I really didn't want to start growing live food, too.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I fed the B. maculatus whatever I was feeding my other fish. I have a little pestle and mortar that I use to grind the NLS pellets into a powder. Very simple to do.
> 
> When I got some very young juvenile Pelvicachromis shipped to me, they hadn't been acclimated to fry food yet. The breeder was still feeding them baby brine shrimp. I considered making my own, but with cats and all, I thought better of it and decided to go for the Ocean Nutrition Instant Baby Brine Shrimp. Absolutely loved it! Just bought my second bottle for my new fry. I'm doing enough as it is with all my tanks. I really didn't want to start growing live food, too.


Sorry about the mix-up on the CO2 tank. I checked out the video of the instant brine shrimp. That is slick. Do you have any idea how long a bottle like that would last for say a dozen or so Boraras Brigittae? The daphnia might get to stay in the lake.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

SaltyNC said:


> Do any of you have Emerald Dwarf Rasbora (Microrasbora erythromicron)? I really like these and CPD's, but I understand they spend most of their time hiding out.


I currently have Erythromincron, they have been doing the fishy shuffle like the Celestials have. (which are close cousins) The scientific name for them is now *Danio erythromicron* Exact same personality a the CPD's A bit skittish, very beautiful fish though. The cross bands (new common name for them is Cross banded danio) are a very deep blue, with a pearl sheen to the fish, and red fins and gill covers. Great fish to keep. 

I vote for a long tank Chili Rasbora (Boraras brigittae) they school very nicely, and man they are some of the best colored fresh water fish I have seen. My group tends to stick very closely, and the males get this very very bright deep red. While the females are a much lighter red.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

SaltyNC said:


> Sorry about the mix-up on the CO2 tank. I checked out the video of the instant brine shrimp. That is slick. Do you have any idea how long a bottle like that would last for say a dozen or so Boraras Brigittae? The daphnia might get to stay in the lake.


Once you open a bottle, you have to use it up in 30 days. The bottle would last all 30 days for B. bridittae. You can do what I've been doing which is to offer some to the fish in my other tanks as a special treat. The bottle is small, but the amount you feed is really tiny. I use a spoon about the size of my pinky fingernail. And even then I'm concerned that I'm overfeeding in all but my larger tanks.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

SaltyNC said:


> Do you have any pics of them from a distance...like a full tank shot? I see lots of close up pics, but I'd love to see how they look in an aquarium where I can get a good sense of their scale. In a 29g, I guess they look like red rice on a football field. :wink: Well, maybe not quite that small....


They look small for any sized tank to be honest, but that's the look I'm going for. I have 14 in a 25g and I don't have any pics of the tank with them in it where you would even notice them. But in real life you can see a small school of red drift back and forth. I love these guys, the red is probably the most intense colouration you'll see in any freshwater fish. But the only hickup is you can't really keep them with other bigger fish. I have B.brigittae and B.merah, and that's fine because they're so similar, but if you keep them with anything slightly bigger they get really shy and hide. Then it can be problematic to get them to feed. And they eat fry sized flakes, and they eat about three times a day. So whatever tank you choose to keep them in, it should be pretty much a single species tank.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Once you open a bottle, you have to use it up in 30 days. The bottle would last all 30 days for B. bridittae.


That is perfect. I won't bother with cultivating daphnia. This looks like a perfect solution. I'll plan on feeding a mix of finely powdered high quality pellet or flake and the instant brine shrimp. Hopefully that will make them happy and they will color up nicely.

When you add the tiny spoonful of shrimp to the water column, about how long does it take the fish to clear them? Do they go nuts?



exv152 said:


> ...But in real life you can see a small school of red drift back and forth. I love these guys, the red is probably the most intense colouration you'll see in any freshwater fish. But the only hickup is you can't really keep them with other bigger fish. ... And they eat fry sized flakes, and they eat about three times a day. So whatever tank you choose to keep them in, it should be pretty much a single species tank.


Cool that they school like that. I can't wait to see them in my tank. I don't plan to put them with other fish. Well, I did plan to have 1 oto for algae, but also planned to do some shrimp and a snail. Do you think the oto will create any issues? I assume the oto will stay out of site most of the time, anyway. I imagine they would be fine with other micro fish in the same family, but at this time, I'm thinking it will just be Boraras b.

You mentioned three times a day feeding. I hope I can get by with two times a day.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

Noahma said:


> I currently have Erythromincron, they have been doing the fishy shuffle like the Celestials have. (which are close cousins) The scientific name for them is now *Danio erythromicron* Exact same personality a the CPD's A bit skittish, very beautiful fish though. The cross bands (new common name for them is Cross banded danio) are a very deep blue, with a pearl sheen to the fish, and red fins and gill covers. Great fish to keep.
> 
> I vote for a long tank Chili Rasbora (Boraras brigittae) they school very nicely, and man they are some of the best colored fresh water fish I have seen. My group tends to stick very closely, and the males get this very very bright deep red. While the females are a much lighter red.


Noahma, those are beautiful fish. I had considered them, as well. Did it take long for yours to color up? I've seen some that look like technicolor blue and others that look nearly void of all color. Do you keep the Boraras with the Cross banded danios?

Thanks for the great info!


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

There is an amazing aquarium magazine, online and in stores, and in their latest issue they talk about boraras brigittae and other species. See the online version here, put in page 56, and it's quite a detailed and scientific article. It also talks at great length about their feeding habits http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/reef_to_rainforest.aspx?eid=0bfd7d6a-491e-42f6-b544-eb56c1a64e2f


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

exv152 said:


> There is an amazing aquarium magazine, online and in stores, and in their latest issue they talk about boraras brigittae and other species. See the online version here, put in page 56, and it's quite a detailed and scientific article. It also talks at great length about their feeding habits http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/reef_to_rainforest.aspx?eid=0bfd7d6a-491e-42f6-b544-eb56c1a64e2f


Thank you very much for the link to this article. It was awesome. I had found some information about the fish from other sources, but this was very thorough and covered my question regarding the number of feedings. The suggestion to use Cyclop-Eeze to color up the fish was something new to me. It sounds like the shrimp I had planned will work well with them. I also found it interesting that other micro rasbora (boraras) made good tank mates, but that the author didn't find success placing them with CPD's.


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## SaltyNC (Jun 26, 2012)

I've decided to definitely go with Boraras brigittae (Chili Rasbora) for my tank. Now the question is how many. I'm thinking around 15, but I wanted to get your thoughts. More or less or just right?

Here is a shot of my tank during my dry start with a dollar bill inside for scale.









I have since planted some hemianthus glomeratus behind the rocks to eventually form a "bush" that should reach just over the height of the rocks. This should provide some nice cover. Of course, the DHG will continue to fill in and I also have some small crypts behind the rocks, as well. 

I have since removed the petite anubias, but otherwise, this gives a good indication of the aquarium right now minus the HG I just planted.









So, you'll have to sort of imagine how it will look in a few more weeks, but that should give a good indication of how the tank will look. 

How many should I stock? Thanks!


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

I would stock the tank gradually, not sure how big the tank is, but start with a nice group of maybe 8. But you'll have to go slow and acclimate these guys carefully. B.brigittae are extremely sensitive and if you read the article you'll see it talks about giving them a couple of hours for acclimation. I did it with a siphon hose on a drip, and waited 3 hours to add them to the tank, and I still lost one.


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