# DIY co2 from wine



## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

I know i started this thread before but I can't find it. I may have been deleted. So I am starting a new one again.

Mods, if you do find the old one, please detete this one and attach this post to the old thread. Thank you

Ok after waiting for a week for some of my supplies to come in from overseas, I decide to give u guys a photo journey of what I did.

First all the supplies!










Next make the holes and pull the airline through. 



















Then I chulked it up to prevent any air leaks 



















Then made the mixture. 










Very simple, first add 1 teaspoon of yeast and hydrate it. It takes about 15 minutes. Then add half a cup of sugar and the 3 containers of concentrated grape juice. Afterwards add 6 cups of water and mix. 










Then I tefloned the bubble counter and connected the system.



















But then the problems. I waited almost 10 hours now and still no co2 bubbles. Most dissapointing.

So then I plugged it to my air pump and it did work. But it was hell on my pump and it looked like it needed alot of pressure. Much more than a DIY. However, I seen people with DIY and glass diffusors. Not sure how to combat this problem right now. Changed my bubble counter with another more airtight container and still same problem.

So I ask for the DIY experts for some help please.


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## stagius (Nov 26, 2007)

here what you should do:

Yeast must be activated first by mixing them with warm water (100-105 F), and allow them to contact with air. Add few dash of sugar. Stir occasionally.

After 10-15 min, add yeast to sugar solution. You are using grape juice, which i am not sure about its effectiveness. Just use plain cheap sugar.

And you are done. The idea is to have yeast become activated first.

You should not do a bubble counter since i see no point of doing that. It just made the CO2 build up longer. Plus, you might get leak somewhere that you never know.

Lastly, you mention that you will use a glass diffusers. I would say you will need more than 1 bottle to have enough pressure to actually see the diffuser work. Otherwise, it is hard to see tiny bubble.


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## stagius (Nov 26, 2007)

Also check on temp. 
Best to keep the bottle as warm as possible ( room temperature), otherwise, it might take longer depend on how cold.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

I already did activate the yeast in the begining by hydrating them. The mixture is working and I am producing bubbles for the moment. 

The bubble counter is very important because incase if I have a back flow, the tank water goes into the bubble counter and not my wine. Also not the other way around. I have made very cheap wine like this before just for fun. And it works and does taste great.

But your right. I think there is a leak in my bubble counter. I attached a air pump to thbe bubble counter and not all of the air is going into the diffuser. 

Right now its in a cool room at 68 degress, which I find is the best for the inital fermentation, and I'm having around 4 to 8 bubbles a second. So I'm really going to try and find that leak tommrow. 

I have seen more than one bottle for a glass diffuser but I figured having a gallon with a large surface area would be sufficent. Do 2 smaller bottles produce more co2 than a large one? Also I was afraid to use the T connector because I heard it leaks more than anything.


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

I use a T connector, two of them for 3x 2 litre bottles. No problem there.

Second check for leaks, or even worse, check for blockages. 

Try to test certain sections at a time to isolate the air leaks.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

you might have a leak at the caps.. I find those air airline connectors and epoxy glue works pretty great.









you're not going to drink the wine are you? it won't kill you but ....


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

ok after running around all day and wasteing money and time, i realized a few things. 

first off, i'm stupid. lol.

well i went to my LFS trying to get an limewood air stone which they do have but me being so cheap i went to the petco about an hour away to see if it was cheaper. which then i realized no and i was too tired to go back to my LFS so i spent it there. 

i went to go get a wooden one because then after removing the bubble counter because that may be the source of the leak, i realized it just didn't have enough pressure. i tried the glass diffusor in my 10 gal with just a poland spring bottle, and it worked!! I can't believe it worked with something so little. 

so then i went out and got me the limestone and attached it trying to think where could i have gone wrong. then i realized that the milk jug expands so it can't hold enough pressure to power the glass co2. 

so then i just attached the wine to the limestone and into the tank. its working now but just small fizzing. im going to check on it later and hope it worked. 

next time im going to get 2L soda bottles and use the t connector. 

epoxy glue? I will definally use that next time. did u put the glue on top of the cap or underneth the cap?

and why not drink it? lol. i thought about the contaimination but with the drop checker, the risk is very low. now without it, there is a risk but im sure it won't happen. im more worried that the wine gets into the tank.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I have read that big Gatorade type jugs work really well because they are rigid and difficult to tip over. 

As far as the epoxy goes, why couldn't you put it on both sides? It would seem to me that you stand a better chance of getting a good seal if it were applied to both sides.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

You are leaking either from the large bottle of the gas separator. 

I would use a 1 gallon gatoraide bottle.
Use a 20oz soda plastic bottle for the bubble counter


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## stagius (Nov 26, 2007)

how does the size of the container affect the rate of CO2 producing ? The bigger, the stronger the gas or what ?

Anyone can confirm ?


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

stagius said:


> how does the size of the container affect the rate of CO2 producing ? The bigger, the stronger the gas or what ?
> 
> Anyone can confirm ?


It doesn't affect the rate of CO2 production. CO2 production depends on the fermentation of the mixture.


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## stagius (Nov 26, 2007)

i mean a big container come with a big mixture of sugar and yeast too. With that said, more CO2 gas, right ?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

yeah, epoxy works great because it sticks to plastic & metal... Silicon doesn't, as you know. And it'll expand into any cracks. I'd put it on the top and bottom.

I'd advise not drinking it because you're using baker's yeast... It'll produce some rank alcohol. It's a different strain of yeast used to make wine and champaign.

here:
http://www.lalvinyeast.com/strains.asp
just a quick google

oh, and you have to use real grape juice.. Buy grapes and mash them to get the juice. If you're using any grapes with seeds, try not to crush the seeds... That's why you see images of women stomping in grape vats in traditional wine making.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

stagius said:


> how does the size of the container affect the rate of CO2 producing ? The bigger, the stronger the gas or what ?
> 
> Anyone can confirm ?





BiscuitSlayer said:


> It doesn't affect the rate of CO2 production. CO2 production depends on the fermentation of the mixture.





stagius said:


> i mean a big container come with a big mixture of sugar and yeast too. With that said, more CO2 gas, right ?


The rate is the same. The amount is different.

Yes, the more volume, the larger the amount of CO2 production. That's why people use Tees to use more than one bottle at a time.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> yeah, epoxy works great because it sticks to plastic & metal... Silicon doesn't, as you know. And it'll expand into any cracks. I'd put it on the top and bottom.
> 
> I'd advise not drinking it because you're using baker's yeast... It'll produce some rank alcohol. It's a different strain of yeast used to make wine and champaign.
> 
> ...


 
not true. I have done this before and it still taste pretty good. not like $80 bottle wine but still better than the cheap wine you get for $10. 

It depends on your taste. you see, the primary component is obviously suger. We can still get the suger from concentrated because the only major difference is that most of the water is removed. So alcohol is still produced. however, there are other aromatic organic compounds that are believed to be the main component of of the taste since taste is 60% smell.

it must also be noted that hypothesis is still being tested in the more high tech wine makers of america. this is because most of the alkanes and alkenes have been removed, release, or denatured by the time it reaches the bottle. so the more high tech makers can collect it and put it back into the bottle. its highly variable from sweet to pungent though.

the process of making concentrated juice does somewhat denature the pre molecules of the alkenes and alkanes that we taste and smell. so it does lose some flavor in this wine making process. 

but hey i don't mine. its $6 and I can still get a buzz. haha

btw, once in my organic chemistry lab, we distilled alcohol from just simple bakers yeast fermentation. and you know what, it smelled just like volka!! i was so tempted to drink it if i didn't know everything has some kind of non edible chemicals on it. 

anyway time for updates

I finally got it to work! I removed the bubble counter to try to remove any possiblities of leaks. so its direct from the jug to tank. also im using a wooden airstone since it doesn't require as much pressure. I have a 29 gal tank but if I sink the airstone all the way, it doesn't bubble because there isn't enough pressure. 

also the temperture is also lower in my room hence the co2 fermentation is slower. although i find it better in the long run in terms of taste. 

then i realized something that sliped me, although i had some table suger, its primarly suger from the grapes or fructose! I was so simple. gulcose is the most simplest suger hence the eaiest to break down. fructose is more complex so it breaks down slower. which is why although a apple has about the same sugar as half a candy bar, losely, the apple has a low glycemic index. so table sugar is sucrose, a bond between glucose and fructose. so its breaks down slower than glucose but not as fast as fructose.

so whats the point in all that? simple, table sugar is a better in high co2 production since it metabolize it easier. however i believe its even better with glucose. i also suspect that the fructose would last longer.

i'll let u guys know how it turns out. so far my plants are pearling so i can't complain.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

do a wine tasting with your buddies.. haha.
You're right though.. You can't beat fresh grape juice.... All the flavors are gone in concentrated juice. They taste like sugar water to me. Might as well drink my DIY CO2 concoction :/

There's a great little wine shop in brooklyn, Williamsburg.. on Humbolt St. right next to the BQE.. I think it's called the BQE wine shop or something like that.. I lived a block away and frequented there a lot.. They have cheap great tasting wines.

Oh, the BQE Beer store was down the block too (beer around the world)..
Too bad I'm allergic to booze now.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

hahah. I do. My friends are french, I kinda have to. 

But I'm a beer kind of guy so I really don't mind the taste. 

BTW, I even have a plan for just the yeast alcohol. hehehehe

Yeah I use to work in a beer distrubtor in brooklyn and I use to go there. At one time I owned a hookah bar in Williamsburg and I use to order from BQE on emergencies.

But the best ones are Cobble heights, and American Beer. They truly have all the beers in the world. I have some Utopia from cobble plus some craft beers from Brooklyn beer that is a pretty rare. Not just brooklyn local or monsters but something they only give to beer distrubutior owners. hehehe


BTW, I'm thinking of a pressurized co2 to get rid of all this trouble. Does anyone know if I can use a T connector to do 2 tanks? I'm just afraid that it can't stand the pressure.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

dr.tran said:


> hahah. I do. My friends are french, I kinda have to.


I'm sorry. :icon_wink


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

fshfanatic said:


> I'm sorry. :icon_wink


Hahaha. Thanks.

And did u every try a brooklyn local one? Thats one of the best domestic beligum beers I ever had in my life. I know how u love beer too.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

dr.tran said:


> BTW, I'm thinking of a pressurized co2 to get rid of all this trouble. Does anyone know if I can use a T connector to do 2 tanks? I'm just afraid that it can't stand the pressure.


A T won't work since the gas will take the path of least resistance. 
Get a manifold on the regulator, then put the needle valves & bubble counters after the split.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

http://www.brooklynbrewery.com ?
it's pretty good stuff actually.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Manifold on the regulator? Ok I'll look that up.

Brooklyn beer - not just pretty good but very good.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

*Pictures*

I have those as well..Heres a picture.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

mistergreen said:


> http://www.brooklynbrewery.com ?
> it's pretty good stuff actually.


Love the Brooklyn Brewery!!


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## nycsicktank (Sep 15, 2007)

haha its funny how people can make anything with anything these days.roud:


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

hahah. thanks NYCsicktank. 

and finally SUCCESS!! 

I finally got my co2/wine generator working fully functional.

Ok I followed your advice and I turned it into two 2 liter bottles connected with a t connector. And filled it with my getto wine. 










Then connect it to a wooden airstone and it works









Then I connected the glass difusor and prayed that it worked.










AND IT WORKS!! Yes sweet sweet success at last. 


But its not all good news. My sister squeezed the bottles and the negative pressure from releasing the bottles caused fish water to get into the bottle. So I have co2 but no cheap wine *tears* I'm going to have to show you wine drinking results in a few months.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

oh,
How long are you going to age the wine?
Even after it stops producing usable CO2... The wine still needs to be aged.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Yeah the entire process takes close to 2 months. 

I wait until primary fermentation is complete which takes about 3 weeks. 

Then siphon the wine out with a sterilized tube and mouth peice. Then place it in another serilized container for one month at around 50-60 degrees. 

But this batch is ruined. I'm going to try that next time.

btw, are you suppose to turn off the DIY co2 at night?


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

You guys are making me want to start brewing beer again and attach the carboy to my tank.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

hahaha. PLEASE DO! I really wanted to try that too! Thats my next project. 

If you do, please let me know how it turns out.


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

I'd have to do a malt syrup batch as the all grain rig has gone to a more active hobbyist. Would have to see if my brewing partner has any of the old equipment around.

It would work but the last few weeks of fermentation would not produce much CO2.

First week though production would be through the roof.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Hahaha. I was afraid of that. But I love beer so I was just about to try. Maybe there is another way kinda like this cheap cheap wine mixture instead of a full on wine barrel concept.


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## outcast (Jul 4, 2007)

kzr750r1 said:


> I'd have to do a malt syrup batch as the all grain rig has gone to a more active hobbyist. Would have to see if my brewing partner has any of the old equipment around.
> 
> It would work but the last few weeks of fermentation would not produce much CO2.
> 
> First week though production would be through the roof.


that is when you start a new batch


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

outcast said:


> that is when you start a new batch


Check:thumbsup:


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## mahoro (Dec 18, 2007)

dr.tran said:


> hahah. thanks NYCsicktank.
> 
> and finally SUCCESS!!
> 
> ...


try puting a check valve between the t connection and the stone


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

yeah i broke mines so i'm looking for a brass one for the moment.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I didn't see a check valve in your set up. You might want to use one before your tank empties out on the floor.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

yeah my check valve broke so i'm looking for a brass one for the moment


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## mahoro (Dec 18, 2007)

how is the brass one compire to the plastic?


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

mahoro said:


> how is the brass one compire to the plastic?


Plastic degrades over time, gets brittle, and cracks with CO2.


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## mahoro (Dec 18, 2007)

aw that sucks, i just got 4 of them 3 weeks ago >_>


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Wow I can't believe this but after a month it slowed down and stoped. So I took out the diffusor and put it in bleach. After I cleaned it, I attached it just for kicks and it still works! over a month since I made this batch of wine, its still kicking! its not as strong as when it first started but still pretty good. My drop checker is still reading good levels of co2.


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

mistergreen said:


> I'd advise not drinking it because you're using baker's yeast... It'll produce some rank alcohol.
> 
> 
> oh, and you have to use real grape juice.. Buy grapes and mash them to get the juice.


I have been making homemade wine for about 8 years and let me tell you this is a standard misconception, First off Bakers Yeast has made some of the best tasting Wines i have made.Bakers Yeast Doesnt produce the higher Alcohol levels that Wine making Yeast Does But it is also FAR LESS TOUCHY to work with. Second your right it is a different Strain than Wine making yeast, The major difference between the 2 is the die off point,and some subtle flavor differences (Wine making yeast WILL give a Higher Alcohol level in the finished wine this is the Die off Point) You don't have to use "Real Grape Juice" But what you do need to use is 100% juice, it can be concentrate as long as it is 100% Juice(no additives or preservatives THESE are what cause the "Rank Wine" not the yeast and you do not have to use fresh grapes) Juicy juice makes some excellent homemade wine! IMHO you do not want to mess with the "Wine Makers Yeast" Unless you seriously want to jump into the hobby of Home Wine Making, They are touchy, and hard to work with not to mention MORE COSTLY! And If your doing "Professional home wine making" You really don't want to risk it being hooked to your fish tank!(some of the Wine kits sell for OVER 100 bucks!) Just my 2 cents


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## charpark (Jan 29, 2008)

dr.tran said:


> btw, are you suppose to turn off the DIY co2 at night?


There is no realistic way to do this...this is one of the major downsides in DIY since you waste approximately half your CO2 generated during off-light hours. I believe some people have proposed somewhat outlandish ideas which could theoretically work, but not worth the effort. 

For example, some people have considered capturing the CO2 generated at night in a storage tank, then releasing throughout the day. A system like this would require a very strong pump, and likewise a holding chamber that can withstand some fair pressure. At that point, you might as well just go pressurized. The only other feasible idea I've seen of "turning off DIY CO2" is to chill it at night. This would cause the yeast to hibernate again, but you would have to reactivate again every morning by warming the solution again. You would effectively lose a few hours of CO2 production everyday as the yeast becomes reactivated.

On another note, you probably should just go with a plastic check valve in the meantime. I've been using an Uncle Lee's or whatever it's called from PetSmart and it's been working (to my surprise) flawlessly for 8 months of consistent CO2 production at ~ 1 bps. I imagine a lot of the worry over CO2 causing plastic to break down is a little overly cautious as this process should take a very long time close to years, not months. The same applies with using airline tubing with CO2, although people worry, very few people have had their tubing go brittle and break. 

Also, don't forget that baker's yeast in DIY begins to die off around 10% alcohol concentration so you may want to calculate roughly the % of alcohol produced from your fructose, and added sucrose. If it is far below, you can off course add more sugar. If it is above, you can dilute the juice, or not add as much sugar and potentially get longer CO2 production with less.

I see you solved your problems in the early stages, but just an FYI if you're having some trouble it's most likely a leak. To test for leaks, you can add a soapy water solution to your connections and check for bubbling. Another method is to close your entire system (cap off, or hold the end of your tubing) and squeeze the bottle. You should not be able to continue squeezing your bottle beyond a certain point if your entire system is closed. Likewise, you can put your entire system under water in the tub for example and cap off the end of your tubing. Then squeeze your bottle and check for bubbles. 

I personally prefer soda bottles since they are designed to handle acidic CO2 solutions, as well as high pressures compared to other bottles. As you mentioned, swapping out the milk bottle should have been a huge help since milk bottles are not designed to handle high pressure. Likewise, the cap on milk bottles has shallow threads and therefore more prone to leaks. People seem to do well with Gatorade bottles, although they have relatively shallow threads compared to soda bottles as well. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, hope that helps.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey guys thanks for trying to help fix up this idea but everything has been worked through and tweaked. 

It was already explained that bakers yeast can produce some good wine.

Also about turning off the DIY co2, it was already adressed. I don't care too much about wasting co2 as long as the co2 doesn't waste my fishes and shrimp. It was more of a safely procaution rather than streching out the co2. Yeast is cheap and so is sugar so I don't mind losing co2 as long as I don't lose my aqua life. 

Regardless, everything has been solved already, this is an old thread but I like it to be known so that other people can try it if they want to. I'm already using pressurized co2 but I may go DIY co2 just to make wine once more. 

Oh and BTW charpark, someone already defiled all critics and created a presurized DIY co2 system with needle valves and other things. I forget when what the thread was called but they were able to store the co2 and use it for later if needed.


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## charpark (Jan 29, 2008)

dr.tran said:


> Oh and BTW charpark, someone already defiled all critics and created a presurized DIY co2 system with needle valves and other things. I forget when what the thread was called but they were able to store the co2 and use it for later if needed.


Excellent, I didn't realize this was an old thread since you're way beyond and now using pressurized. Mind if I ask where you obtain your CO2 tank and refills since I'm in NYC? I've been looking around for a good supplier.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that turning off DIY CO2/storing DIY CO2 at night is impossible. I am however stating (to your point) that it's not realistically feasible since it requires a lot of work for minimal return. Since sugar and yeast are very cheap ingredients and 2-3 week intervals are not that frequent, this type of set-up would be impractical and would it be worthwhile to simply go pressurized. 

I would however be interested in reading that thread just to see how it was done. Hopefully it'll at least be some helpful information for other DIYers that came across the same problems.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Actually this set up lasted me close to 2 months. I left the mixture alone when I went pressurized and it contiuned to ferment for months. The alcohol level was way higher than 10% by the time I threw it out when it was about 5 months old. I know it just by smelling it since I my work was with beer before. 

So it seems fesible due to the low cost and longevity. I'm going to do it again do get a proper batch of wine.


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## clakeii (Jan 10, 2007)

charpark:

If you are in Manahattan, www.mckinneynyc.com for CO2

Not sure about other places


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

ohh man, i drank my diy mixture...
i only used plain sugar too, no juice.
it really isnt that bad. i was just going to dump it but i convinced myself to give it a taste....then another and another and didnt stop until it was all gone. :icon_redf 

this is one reason why i now run a pressurized setup:icon_roll 
you could mix up some pretty good stuff in a 2 liter bottle though.
i know i was excited after that, i wanted to go off and experiment making all kinds of homemade wine and such, adding different juices.. i came up with the plan that i was going to make an elaborite diy co2 rig and put together a pressure cooker venting to a big iced down copper coil and distill my diy mixture after it stopped producing co2, catching the drops out of that coil into an old glass jar and then lock the door, close the blinds and lay back and watch the fish swim in the tank, and then taking a drive so i can stumble around the grocery store at 8 am threatening the clerk because i cant find the yeast!
:drool:


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Yeah I've been thinking of making this wine even cheaper. I figured I can make regular yeast and sugar and then use mix it with kool aid. This would then be the cheapest most gettho wine ever. 

In organic chemistry class, we praticed distilling with the yeast and sugar. We pratically got volka from it.


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## brion0 (Sep 28, 2008)

I just drank the last beer.My diy co2 jug might be next. Im puttin sugar an koolaid in it next time to.Thanks.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Well I hope this doesn't encorage underage drinking or inventive ways to make alcoholic drinks for the underage. Drink responsibly.

Now that the moral stuff is done, I am just about to try this again in a few days. I tried some apple juice and I think I got apple cider now. But kinda scared about tasting it.

I also tried something different before, I added yeast to a 2L bottle of soda and it did turn alcoholic. I didn't taste it as well because I was scared. But as I was pouring it down the drain, I have to admit, it did smell pretty good. 

So stay tune guys I am gonna try this again with a few new twist. Has anyone else tried this so far?


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