# Very proud of my selective breeding efforts in my shrimp tank!



## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

Wow! Very nice is what it is.


----------



## wrangler (Oct 14, 2007)

LUCKY LUCKY!!!! Congratulations! Very pretty!!


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Don't know what grade it would be but it is a completely white CRS. I also think it's eyers are red!


----------



## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

Very nice! Take care of that one ;-). What RO unit did you get?


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

that's the confirmation you have golden genes somewhere in their past.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Either you have an official "Snow white" or you could have a CRS that may be an extreme flowerhead or worse case scenario, it is a golden. Gotta see when it grows up 

But let's hope its a snow white!


----------



## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> that's the confirmation you have golden genes somewhere in their past.


Thank you Buzz Killington! :flick::hihi:

It's a really nice shrimp bsmith, give yourself a nice pat on the back. Good work dude.


----------



## EKLiu (Jan 14, 2010)

So did you rebuild your shrimp colony from only 3 shrimp?

I've seen the videos and pictures you have posted and you really do have some nice shrimp.


----------



## Nue (Dec 27, 2009)

Neat. Great work!


----------



## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

I was going to say that shrimp looks really white to be a golden, but im not sure exactly.
is a snow white a better grade of a golden?


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

snow white wouldn't have red eyes, at least not that ivve ever seen.

a golden with red eyes, or an extreme flowerhead is cool though!


----------



## Nue (Dec 27, 2009)

Snow balls are a lot more pale and transparent.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Nue said:


> Snow balls are a lot more pale and transparent.


What are you talking about?


----------



## Nue (Dec 27, 2009)

msnikkistar said:


> What are you talking about?


Something else apparently.....


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Nue said:


> Something else apparently.....


Oh you must have mixed up a snowball shrimp with a snow white.  :bounce::bounce:


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

rickztahone said:


> Very nice! Take care of that one ;-). What RO unit did you get?


I bought this system. Has worked flawlessly for over 8 months and I am just now getting ready to replace the filters but not the RO membrane. That should last over a year. 



mordalphus said:


> that's the confirmation you have golden genes somewhere in their past.


Because of the lack of head gear? If that is the case I would really like to see some info on this. Not to try to dispute anything but to learn about it. 



msnikkistar said:


> Either you have an official "Snow white" or you could have a CRS that may be an extreme flowerhead or worse case scenario, it is a golden. Gotta see when it grows up
> 
> But let's hope its a snow white!


Its super white. It is still small. Would say it was "born" a week or two ago so the intensity of the white could certainly fade but comparing it to the others that looked like that in the tank, it will be white as snow when it ages! :bounce:


dirtyhermit said:


> Thank you Buzz Killington! :flick::hihi:
> 
> It's a really nice shrimp bsmith, give yourself a nice pat on the back. Good work dude.


Thank you. 



EKLiu said:


> So did you rebuild your shrimp colony from only 3 shrimp?
> 
> I've seen the videos and pictures you have posted and you really do have some nice shrimp.


Yep, from 3 to what I have now. Got really lucky for sure. 



Moe said:


> I was going to say that shrimp looks really white to be a golden, but im not sure exactly.
> is a snow white a better grade of a golden?


I really dont know much about snow white CRS. 



mordalphus said:


> snow white wouldn't have red eyes, at least not that ivve ever seen.
> 
> a golden with red eyes, or an extreme flowerhead is cool though!


I just think the camera made the eyes look red. Ill try to get some better pics. 



msnikkistar said:


> What are you talking about?





Nue said:


> Something else apparently.....


I think Nue was talking about snowball shrimp.


----------



## Nue (Dec 27, 2009)

LOL. Sorry, ill be quite now.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

lol, that's cool bsmith!

I love my ro system, one of the best investments for keeping shrimp. Much easier to remove all minerals and then add them back in than it is to try to use products and soil to change the minerals that are already in tap water. Great advice!

As for guessing what the little guy is, it's all just guesses until he matures a little, but that's cool you went from 3 crs 8 months ago to breeding high grade shrimp, all with the help of ro water. Really a great testament!


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

"Selective Breeding Efforts"? All of your shrimp died but 3 and what are left reproduced. No selective breeding or special effort involved. Neat looking shrimp though!


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Nue said:


> LOL. Sorry, ill be quite now.


No need. I make mistakes more than the average bear. Just read some of the stuff I post on this site at 2AM!



mordalphus said:


> lol, that's cool bsmith!
> 
> I love my ro system, one of the best investments for keeping shrimp. Much easier to remove all minerals and then add them back in than it is to try to use products and soil to change the minerals that are already in tap water. Great advice!
> 
> As for guessing what the little guy is, it's all just guesses until he matures a little, but that's cool you went from 3 crs 8 months ago to breeding high grade shrimp, all with the help of ro water. Really a great testament!


The RO system is one of the best investments I have made in my hobby for sure. I would have to give the credit to the shrimps genetics. Its not like im testing the water every 2 hours or mixing up micro batches of mineral solutions or anything. 

I just got some more pics that are better. Definitely not red eyes, but white as all get out. :bounce:


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

macclellan said:


> "Selective Breeding Efforts"? All of your shrimp died but 3 and what are left reproduced. No selective breeding or special effort involved. Neat looking shrimp though!


I guess as usual you decided to post what was on your mind without think it through completely. If I would have left every shrimp in this tank that was produced there's no telling what kind of shrimp would be in there now. Over the past 8 months I have taken out the shrimp that I did not feel were up to par and put others from my home tanks back in to produce not only the purest white coloration but also certain head gear I liked. 

When you go from 3 ss crs to what I have in the tank now maybe then will I give anything you have to say about them consideration. 

Good day sir...


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I just based it on what you said in your first post, where you said your shrimp slowly died off until you got an RO/DI system, and how you started with that good water and 3 shrimp. There's no mention of selective breeding or introducing shrimp from other tanks. Perhaps you meant to say what was on your mind, but that wasn't what you posted.

"As usual"???


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

macclellan said:


> I just based it on what you said in your first post, where you said your shrimp slowly died off until you got an RO/DI system, and how you started with that good water and 3 shrimp. There's no mention of selective breeding or introducing shrimp from other tanks. Perhaps you meant to say what was on your mind, but that wasn't what you posted.
> 
> "As usual"???


You based it on what you read and assumed that I chronicle every happening in my life that has to do with aquariums on this site? Not a very good idea or assumption.


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I assumed your post would chronicle your selective breeding efforts. That's a pretty fair assumption, given the thread title. 

Now that you have chronicled it in your response, you could detail your selective breeding instead of flaming or whatever. I'd be interested in knowing what you did, what characteristics you looked for, etc.


----------



## fitness2go (Oct 13, 2005)

When I read the title of the thread, I assumed there was going to be some details on selective breeding. By the way, that's a nice looking RODI set-up for a very good price and the shrimp aren't have bad either!


----------



## fitness2go (Oct 13, 2005)

Yep...the good stuff!



macclellan said:


> I assumed your post would chronicle your selective breeding efforts. That's a pretty fair assumption, given the thread title.
> 
> Now that you have chronicled it in your response, you could detail your selective breeding instead of flaming or whatever. I'd be interested in knowing what you did, what characteristics you looked for, etc.


----------



## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

very nice looking shrimp mate. Keep the white coming


----------



## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

Keep up what your doing my friend. I can vouch for you and your breeding efforts, nice shrimp!


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

That's what you get for making assumptions. 

When I cull shrimp I take the ones out that have less solid/bright/complete white coloration. Even ones that by their markings would be a SSS grade shrimp. IMO the bright white on CRS/CBS is just as important as the "head gear" or other defining characteristics like hino, no entry, tiger tooth etc that determine the grade (which is a weak system that need more strict guidelines or more specific grades to be able to give a more accurate true grade). I have seen a lot of shrimp on other sites and other places online that are like I described, having great markings but the white was horrid. This is most often a result of when people mix Golden bees with CRS to get higher grades much quicker. Not only does that produce ugly shrimp with weak white coloration but it's the easy way out and 99% of the time the easy way out is not the best way to achieve your goal.

I have a few different tanks for the different grades. I dont feel that is as important as just making sure that you try to remove any shrimp with traits that are not desired before they are sexually mature. 

To cull I just drop a few small pieces of "insert solid shrimp food of choice here" and wait ten minutes or so and then get to scooping. I think shrimp traps just over complicate the situation. 

I never read anywhere specific to get these methods. Just used common sense and what I though would work the best.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Hobbes1911 said:


> very nice looking shrimp mate. Keep the white coming


Thank you. :thumbsup:



Moe said:


> Keep up what your doing my friend. I can vouch for you and your breeding efforts, nice shrimp!


Will do. How are the shrimp doing BTW? Any of the larger ones showing berries yet?


----------



## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

They settled in fine, and yes one of them is berried!


----------



## mysticalnet (Dec 2, 2007)

cute shrimp


----------



## Captivate05 (Feb 23, 2010)

bsmith said:


> To cull I just drop a few small pieces of "insert solid shrimp food of choice here" and wait ten minutes or so and then get to scooping. I think shrimp traps just over complicate the situation.


That's a good method. My attempted shrimp traps caught a grand total of one shrimp. Had much better success with ambush feedings :bounce:


----------



## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

A shrimp trap works good for catching shrimp, but its not good for culling.


----------



## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

Could it be a golden white bee shrimp? or snowwhite? Looks like one of those to me but it's a guessing game so don't take my response so seriously. lol Any close up pictures?
Here's one of my Golden White! Yours looks like it minus the feeding patch coloration on it's side face!


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I can't wait for it to get bigger. I know the pics aren't the best but this shrimp is not golden at all it is pure white. I cannot speak to how solid the white is yet because it's so young but from staring at it today it looks very solid.


----------



## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

bsmith said:


> I can't wait for it to get bigger. I know the pics aren't the best but this shrimp is not golden at all it is pure white. I cannot speak to how solid the white is yet because it's so young but from staring at it today it looks very solid.


 keep us updated. I am looking into that RO unit you linked. i'm trying to figure out how i would store the water. I have somewhat limited space, and seeing as i will be downgrading to a 55g, the stand will be even smaller space. thanks for the info though


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

If you have a basement and a water connection down there you can do like me and get a rubbermade brute trash can, put a shutoff float valve on there and call orbs day.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Okay so now I take back what I said about high grade crs in America having to been crossed with goldens. There seems to be no concrete info about this and the reasoning for it is pretty soft.


----------



## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

bsmith said:


> If you have a basement and a water connection down there you can do like me and get a rubbermade brute trash can, put a shutoff float valve on there and call orbs day.


i honestly wish i had a basement, i would have all my tanks set up, all 8 of them. unfortunately i don't and it's not feasible for me to have a rubbermaid trashcan next to the tank. I will keep researching and seeing my options for install. thanks again.


----------



## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

I would kill for a basement! Wont see any here, though. Too much limestone to break through and no extreme weather, ever! 

The shrimp looks awesome! The only thing I could think of is that when DNA is being created there are chances of mutations of genes. Is it possible that this is a rare case of albinism? I know that is occurs in animals as well as humans. Whatever it is, its cool! May I ask how your water is now compared to before you used RO? Do you use 100% RO or 50/50? What are you adding to the RO water? Just looking for some before and after parameters to see what might have been happening to cause shrimp deaths.


----------



## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

Subscribed. Will love to see how this pretty shrimplet look in the future. Keep us posted.


----------



## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

well wouldn't the shrimp be absolutely see-through with albinism? Since no melanin pigment can be created? Or is the white in shrimp an absence of pigment?


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Hobbes1911 said:


> well wouldn't the shrimp be absolutely see-through with albinism? Since no melanin pigment can be created? Or is the white in shrimp an absence of pigment?


I hope you weren't waiting for a response from me on that question because I have no idea about any of that. 

I did spot little ****** just now hanging out on a crypt leaf. Doing as shrimp do nothing really. But its still alive so hopefully in a couple of weeks well see what it turns out to be. I think im going to have to go with a golden. So if it is a golden I will have been expecting it so no sweat off my back. But if it is a snow white then thats all the better!


----------



## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

nice shrimp! what do you reconstitute your RO with? i am trying both koi mud (old sea mud powder) and gh booster. seem to be getting better results with the gh booster, and its easier to reconstitute with. keep the pics of ****** coming....


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

dhavoc said:


> nice shrimp! what do you reconstitute your RO with? i am trying both koi mud (old sea mud powder) and gh booster. seem to be getting better results with the gh booster, and its easier to reconstitute with. keep the pics of ****** coming....


I actually do not reconstitute my RO water with anything. I just change 20% every week or two and top off w/RO as needed. But I was expecting to have to and purchased GH booster from Rex which im sure is the same as what you have. Perhaps with a different name. It seemed like the simplest product to use and was cheaper then equilibrium.


----------



## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

dhavoc said:


> nice shrimp! what do you reconstitute your RO with? i am trying both koi mud (old sea mud powder) and gh booster. seem to be getting better results with the gh booster, and its easier to reconstitute with. keep the pics of ****** coming....


'Old sea mud powder' aka bentonite and montmorrilonite clay seems to increase kH, not gH.



bsmith said:


> I actually do not reconstitute my RO water with anything. I just change 20% every week or two and top off w/RO as needed. But I was expecting to have to and purchased GH booster from Rex which im sure is the same as what you have. Perhaps with a different name. It seemed like the simplest product to use and was cheaper then equilibrium.


I recently switched to Seachem equilibrium because I ran out of Mosura mineral plus. I do not recommend using gH boosters designed for planted tanks because they contain so much K. The high K concentration isn't necessarily harmful to shrimp, but it will greatly increase your TDS (relative to mosura/shirakura additives) without conferring any benefits to the shrimp. If your TDS gets too high (over 200 ppm), your shrimp will probably stop reproducing; most breeders prefer to maintain a TDS between 120-170.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

montmorillonite increases gh slightly, kh even slightlier.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

and mosura mineral plus takes a lot to alter gh... Much costlier for large tanks.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

snausage said:


> 'Old sea mud powder' aka bentonite and montmorrilonite clay seems to increase kH, not gH.
> 
> 
> 
> I recently switched to Seachem equilibrium because I ran out of Mosura mineral plus. I do not recommend using gH boosters designed for planted tanks because they contain so much K. The high K concentration isn't necessarily harmful to shrimp, but it will greatly increase your TDS (relative to mosura/shirakura additives) without conferring any benefits to the shrimp. If your TDS gets too high (over 200 ppm), your shrimp will probably stop reproducing; most breeders prefer to maintain a TDS between 120-170.


I really didn't think about the K+ too much. The only tank I use the GH booster on is my 37g which has no inverts in it only Discus. I try to keep TDS around 80ppm and under 100ppm. 

I know Barr and grigg say to dose equilibrium at the same rate at equilibrium. Is the only thing different between the two is the lack K+ in the seachem product. 



mordalphus said:


> and mosura mineral plus takes a lot to alter gh... Much costlier for large tanks.


There is a member on here (Skewlboy) who has a gorgeous 40g breeder that has soft water plants and a bullion CRS. He says the only thing he does is feed the shrimp Shirakura minima breeder. He says it has (I cant remember which) P or K+ in it and that's all he needs. What do you know about this?


----------



## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

yep, Rex's GH booster is what i am currently using. didnt see the KH increase with the koi mud, but then again i was dosing very small amounts when i did use it. nice to know about the K+ in booster, i missed that in my reading. time to switch to equillibrium...

my last two crs tanks i didnt reconstitute at all, pure RO, shrimp did great for a year or so then would crash, nothing wrong with the water, and water changes just made the crash worse. wasnt till this last crash that i got a hint from Diana (Greenisgood) to check my GH, low and behold it was 0. the aquasoil/azoo soil was taking everything out of the water. current setup is doing great right now, but i just checked my TDS and it is pretty high ~250. will do a water change to lower it a bit. thanks for the info.


----------



## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

bsmith said:


> I really didn't think about the K+ too much. The only tank I use the GH booster on is my 37g which has no inverts in it only Discus. I try to keep TDS around 80ppm and under 100ppm.
> 
> I know Barr and grigg say to dose equilibrium at the same rate at equilibrium. Is the only thing different between the two is the lack K+ in the seachem product.
> 
> ...


Equilibrium is 0-0-23, so the K content is pretty high. 

I too am a big fan of skewlboy's crs tank. I believe shirakura minima breeder is just a combination of gH boosting minerals (Ca, Mg) and powdered food. Skewlboy mentions in his thread that he doses a lot of the shirakura product and goes months without an actual water change. I'm guessing the amount he doses ensures that the mineral content is adequate, as he also says he uses pure ro water.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

snausage said:


> Equilibrium is 0-0-23, so the K content is pretty high.
> 
> I too am a big fan of skewlboy's crs tank. I believe shirakura minima breeder is just a combination of gH boosting minerals (Ca, Mg) and powdered food. Skewlboy mentions in his thread that he doses a lot of the shirakura product and goes months without an actual water change. I'm guessing the amount he doses ensures that the mineral content is adequate, as he also says he uses pure ro water.


So the minima covers K and N (one would assume since un eaten food becomes N). Wondering where his phos or the micros come from?


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Actually when I changed my dosing regime and added CSM+b and purchased the GH booster I had a good convo about it with Rex. In my case since I added the booster weekly after water changes I didn't even purchase any K+ from him lime I had in the past because he said there would be enough of it from the booster. Just a little FYI for anyone doing the same.


----------



## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

bsmith said:


> So the minima covers K and N (one would assume since un eaten food becomes N). Wondering where his phos or the micros come from?


I don't think the minima provides any K, since it's designed for shrimp, not plants.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I wasn't saying that. That was told to me by the above mentioned member.


----------



## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

How is white shrimpy?


----------



## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

problemman said:


> How is white shrimpy?


+1, i forgot about that little guy.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Sorry about the delay guys. I saw him/her today on the intake but as soon as I got the camera out it was in a location where I wouldn't have been able to get a good pic. 

I will have one hopefully before I leave the office at 9.


----------



## 10gallonplanted (Oct 31, 2010)

I almsot forgot about this thread! I cant wait to see what it looks like now.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I actually think something happened to the ones I originally took the pics of. Because I'm sure that this shrimp I saw today is too small to be that one. I have never found a single dead shrimp in this tank and don't know why these pure white ones would be the exception.


----------



## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

it died?


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

problemman said:


> it died?


I would almost have to assume that it did because from the initial post to today the shrimp would be getting pretty good sized. It could be a super good hide and seek player but that's doubtful. It is common knowledge that the higher the grade is the more difficult the shrimp are to care for but I have shipped SSS+ across the country 3 days priority in the dead of winter and have not lost a single one. It would be hard for me to accept that this morph Golden Bee/Snow White would be that much less hardy. 

I have also never heard that the GB/SW shrimp grow extremely slowly either.


----------



## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

maybe it is a snow white and they are that temperamental.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

problemman said:


> maybe it is a snow white and they are that temperamental.


I just cant accept that. The parameters in this tank are as perfect as any shrimp could want. 

Here are a couple of shots I got of the new ******.


----------



## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

hmm maybe its the same one and hes a runt lol


----------



## neumahrs (Jan 12, 2010)

problemman said:


> hmm maybe its the same one and hes a runt lol


a dwarf dwarf shrimp? :icon_mrgr


----------



## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

omygosh! that would be so CUTE..


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

There are at least two of these guys running around now. They are kind of strange looking IMO and I hate to say it but it appears as though they will be Golden bees and not snow whites when they grow up. I could just be setting my self up for the lesser of the two goods but still, that's what im thinking. 

You can see both of them here, blurry but look close. 

















Clearer shots of the individual whities. 


























Another cool happening that I just saw was that there seems to be a SSS that has black coloration on him. I had seen this before in my S/S+ shrimp but never on a SSS til today. Ill try to get pics but if this does turn out to be a SSS CBS I will be so happy since i have been looking for some that I felt were as uniformly and solidly colored as mine!


----------



## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Yah from the pictures you can see the gold undertone.I'm going with golden bee


----------



## lstorns (Aug 7, 2010)

really cool man , Im can't wait for mine to breed If I do half as well as you Ill be exstatic.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

There is a bunch of these little guys running around now. Anyone want some golden bees?>


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Paint a flower on their heads with fingernail polish and sell em as flowerheads! lol


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

mordalphus said:


> Paint a flower on their heads with fingernail polish and sell em as flowerheads! lol


Ha! I have plenty of other flower heads and crowns in there so that would just be a PITA. It just really makes me mad that the thing I have been adamant about not doing/other people doing (mixing CRS with goldens to get better grades quicker) has kind of happened to me by me culling the lesser marked shrimp and less intensely white filled to get nicer shrimp. I wonder if there is anyway I can reverse this? I really want to get a few SS or SSS CBS to throw in the mix. You have any leads Liam? I really want to trade but it seems like everybody who has CBS either doesn't have high grades like mine, already sold them all or they have less than ideal white coloration/thickness in comparison to mine. I will not compromise that in my shrimp since I would rather have lower grade shrimp with thick white than higher grade with bad white.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I suggest getting a nice S or SS grade male to cross into your lines. This should be done every 3-5 familial generations to avoid genetic senescense. You'll get some lower grade shrimp as offspring, but high grades too, and it'll help avoid spitting goldens out the more you outcross to lower grades from different breeders. You can always backcross the F1s to their SSS mother too to solidify the higher grade.

fun stuff


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

mordalphus said:


> I suggest getting a nice S or SS grade male to cross into your lines. This should be done every 3-5 familial generations to avoid genetic senescense. You'll get some lower grade shrimp as offspring, but high grades too, and it'll help avoid spitting goldens out the more you outcross to lower grades from different breeders. You can always backcross the F1s to their SSS mother too to solidify the higher grade.
> 
> fun stuff


Very good then Liam. You wouldn't happen to have any or know anyone that has some nice CBS? I already asked Nikki and she has more shrimp than she knows what to do with so a trade is out with her.


----------



## digginbetta (Apr 6, 2011)

There's a gentleman by the name of Pete (Scipio) I'm not sure if he has any immediately, maybe a month or two down the line, but I know he has some very nice cbs and crs
When I received my crs he informed me that they were a red line, and they haven't been crossed with the goldens. Beautiful, solid, WHITE white, not gold  Their little ruby red legs tell all! Since he houses them in the same tank, I would assume the same applies to the cbs. I'm not sure if he's on this site, but he IS on the SCAPE ( southern california aquatic plants enthusiasts) site . . . (I heard about tpt from those guys)

Oh just found him! He is on this site.


----------



## Snikerz (Jul 8, 2009)

digginbetta said:


> There's a gentleman by the name of Pete (Scipio) I'm not sure if he has any immediately, maybe a month or two down the line, but I know he has some very nice cbs and crs
> When I received my crs he informed me that they were a red line, and they haven't been crossed with the goldens. Beautiful, solid, WHITE white, not gold  Their little ruby red legs tell all! Since he houses them in the same tank, I would assume the same applies to the cbs. I'm not sure if he's on this site, but he IS on the SCAPE ( southern california aquatic plants enthusiasts) site . . . (I heard about tpt from those guys)
> 
> Oh just found him! He is on this site.


+1 for Scipio. He has beautiful shrimps.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Pretty sure I pm'd him and he was out. 

I was under the impression that my shrimp had never been kept with goldens at one point in the past too. Then after some research and now with the goldens popping out it is impossible to say that they were never bredtogether with them. The JPRL is one of the only lines of CRS that I know that have no golden in their genes and you will pay for that little fact.


----------



## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

digginbetta said:


> There's a gentleman by the name of Pete (Scipio) I'm not sure if he has any immediately, maybe a month or two down the line, but I know he has some very nice cbs and crs
> When I received my crs he informed me that they were a red line, and they haven't been crossed with the goldens. Beautiful, solid, WHITE white, not gold  Their little ruby red legs tell all! Since he houses them in the same tank, I would assume the same applies to the cbs. I'm not sure if he's on this site, but he IS on the SCAPE ( southern california aquatic plants enthusiasts) site . . . (I heard about tpt from those guys)
> 
> Oh just found him! He is on this site.


Thanks Stephanie 

For the record I do not claim that that my CRS are "red line" but for sure they are not kept or mixed in my tanks with golden bees. I do seem to have three types of CRS in my tanks. One type has clear with red spotted legs. A second group has red legs and the last type have white legs and claws. One thing I did notice is that the ones with the red legs also seem to have red eyes unlike the black eyes that the others have. The white on the body of the red leg/eye CRS does seem different, I would not say it is more solid or whiter then the others but there is something about the color that makes it look different. Sorry I now this ain't making sence but I can't discribe it any other way :icon_redf 

A few of my CBS/CRS have white claws like the cardinal shrimp which is really neat. Once I'm able to set up another tank I will move them over and focus on them. In 3 years time I have not had a golden bee pop out. My colony come from three sources. I started with A-B and worked them up to S+, I bought them from some one local to me. My second source are from KANGSHIANG who is also local. I bought SS from him. And the third source I got from a SCAPE member from San Diego who got his stock back in 2008-2009 from dreamer_yoyo that imported her CRS from Asia. That pretty much all I can say about my lineage. 

"red lines" = No 
Mixed goldens bees in my tanks = No
Nice white = Yes (If I do say so myself )

Hey bsmith, once I build up my CBS I will contact you for a trade. Right now I am low on both CRS and CBS SS grades. KingKong/Pandas and Red Wines drained my colony along with my OEBTs and Fire Reds.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Scipio said:


> Thanks Stephanie
> 
> For the record I do not claim that that my CRS are "red line" but for sure they are not kept or mixed in my tanks with golden bees. I do seem to have three types of CRS in my tanks. One type has clear with red spotted legs. A second group has red legs and the last type have white legs and claws. One thing I did notice is that the ones with the red legs also seem to have red eyes unlike the black eyes that the others have. The white on the body of the red leg/eye CRS does seem different, I would not say it is more solid or whiter then the others but there is something about the color that makes it look different. Sorry I now this ain't making sence but I can't discribe it any other way :icon_redf
> 
> ...


It depressed me a bit when I learned that any shrimp (in America pretty much) that is a SSS with headgear came from a cross breeding with goldens at sometime or another in the past. I was told that mine weren't mixed with goldens too but after looking at the facts and again the appearance of these goldens makes that claim untrue. Also I believe that the presence of red eyes also dictates that goldens were somewhere down the line introduced. I was arguing with Mordalphus/Nikki/a couple others when I was trying to find out if in fact American SSS+ had been mixed with goldens to produce the headgear. But again, in the end I found that fact to be true by the info I found and now by these little goldens popping out. I really wished they were snow whites and I guess they still could be but im going to have to say its about 95% certain that they are goldens. 

Do you have any idea about how long you are expecting it to take before we could do a trade? I would be happy to ship you my shrimp now or as soon as you would like since the weather is currently perfect for invert shipping.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Brandon,

I got a crap ton of SSS CBS berried now


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

msnikkistar said:


> Brandon,
> 
> I got a crap ton of SSS CBS berried now


That is wonderful to hear. Hopefully in about 2 months you will have enough to swap!

Are these your regular line or your jprl line? Either way have you had any breeding going on with the jprl's?


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

No breeding going on with JPRL atm. I am waiting to get a house to set up a special tank for those.


----------



## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

bsmith said:


> It depressed me a bit when I learned that any shrimp (in America pretty much) that is a SSS with headgear came from a cross breeding with goldens at sometime or another in the past. I was told that mine weren't mixed with goldens too but after looking at the facts and again the appearance of these goldens makes that claim untrue. Also I believe that the presence of red eyes also dictates that goldens were somewhere down the line introduced. I was arguing with Mordalphus/Nikki/a couple others when I was trying to find out if in fact American SSS+ had been mixed with goldens to produce the headgear. But again, in the end I found that fact to be true by the info I found and now by these little goldens popping out. I really wished they were snow whites and I guess they still could be but im going to have to say its about 95% certain that they are goldens.
> 
> Do you have any idea about how long you are expecting it to take before we could do a trade? I would be happy to ship you my shrimp now or as soon as you would like since the weather is currently perfect for invert shipping.


I should have some in a couple of months. I will let you know.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

msnikkistar said:


> No breeding going on with JPRL atm. I am waiting to get a house to set up a special tank for those.


That will be very interesting and once it get running quite the money maker. Are you giving them their own tank because you just want to keep them pure or do you think they need extra special care/parameters?



Scipio said:


> I should have some in a couple of months. I will let you know.


Between you and Nikki hopefully I'll be able to finally get some.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

bsmith said:


> That will be very interesting and once it get running quite the money maker. Are you giving them their own tank because you just want to keep them pure or do you think they need extra special care/parameters?
> 
> 
> 
> Between you and Nikki hopefully I'll be able to finally get some.


I plan on keeping them completely separate from all other shrimp


----------



## digginbetta (Apr 6, 2011)

Omg I'm so sorry Pete, By saying that I didn't want to misrepresent you, I only meant that you had never crossed yours with Goldens . . . .


----------



## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

digginbetta said:


> Omg I'm so sorry Pete, By saying that I didn't want to misrepresent you, I only meant that you had never crossed yours with Goldens . . . .


 
No worries roud:


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

msnikkistar said:


> Brandon,
> 
> I got a crap ton of SSS CBS berried now


 
Ooooooooooo, once I get the 20-Long set up for my CBS (hopefully this weekend, finally!!!), I know who I'm PMing. *grin*


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Uh oh. lol


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I've been trying to diversify my sources. I got some from a local breeder in the San Francisco (really solid white S and S+). I also got some nice hino/no entry off aquabid (from SoCal). If I add in some from Nikki and maybe some from a couple other people here on TPT, I should be in good shape.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Mine come from overseas =X lol


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

msnikkistar said:


> Mine come from overseas =X lol


Which is another reason why I'd like to add them into the gene pool in my tank eventually. I've imported fish through a transshiper, but I've yet to discover an easy way of doing the same thing with shrimp, nor would I have any idea where to start (sellers on aquabid don't seem to have any conception they should be working with a transshiper and just want to send them directly, which is illegal).


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Betta Maniac said:


> Which is another reason why I'd like to add them into the gene pool in my tank eventually. I've imported fish through a transshiper, but I've yet to discover an easy way of doing the same thing with shrimp, nor would I have any idea where to start (sellers on aquabid don't seem to have any conception they should be working with a transshiper and just want to send them directly, which is illegal).


Oh, you could always get the shipped using me or whatever. I got my import permit. :bounce:

Same as fish, you just have them shipped port to port


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

msnikkistar said:


> Oh, you could always get the shipped using me . . . I got my import permit.


 

First, sorry for the thread jack, LOL! I get carried away with the shrimp acquisition talk. 

Second, I'll keep this in mind . . . thanks!!!


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

So after looking up actual golden bees and snow white shrimp I am convinced that I actually have snow whites here. They are as white as the white in my other crs and are not golden at all. They look just like the ones in this video only smaller. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywsmhme2wdw


----------



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Wow these are some nice looking shrimps! Nice work breeding them. I want some! :wink:

And I won't complain about no headgear roud:


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Wow these are some nice looking shrimps! Nice work breeding them. I want some! :wink:
> 
> And I won't complain about no headgear roud:


Just to clarify the shrimp in the vid are not mine only what I found online that looked like the ones I had.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

snow whites are cbs versions of goldens.

also lots of goldens start out very bright and grow golder as they age. So unless one of the parents was a cbs, I think it would have to be a golden.


----------



## Zmuda (Dec 13, 2010)

So what's the verdict? Do you got a snow white or a golden?


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

They have to be goldens since they came from CRS if I'm not mistaken. I found the fact that CRS in America that are SSS grade were mixed with goldens at one point in time too. JPRL's are the only pure CRS that I know of but then again I am certainly no authority. 

I just don't let the goldens breed with the shrimp in the tank. It keeps the white very crisp. 

I will say though that my goldens look different then others I have seen. Theory aren't really golden they are more white and have red coloration from under the white at the different junctions of the shell.


----------



## ren (May 19, 2010)

Hey bsmith thanks again for the goldens roud: they seem to doing well.

As a matter of fact recently I've seen the joints where the legs and the body meet, they do have red even the mouth area which i found this quite interesting.


----------

