# GE Starcoat vs. Giesemann T-5's?



## Guest (Jan 7, 2009)

I just bought 4 - t5's 6400k for $32.80 shipped. I am not sure how good Giesemann bulbs are but they do cost alot. I have always used growing bulbs without a problem and I know a few others on here use the same ones as well.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

The Starcoat bulbs will still grow plants, if cash is tight go that route.
try others next time... 
Spend the extra $35 on plants you want


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## BlueLagoon (Jan 2, 2009)

DementedMindz said:


> I just bought 4 - t5's 6400k for $32.80 shipped. I am not sure how good Giesemann bulbs are but they do cost alot. I have always used growing bulbs without a problem and I know a few others on here use the same ones as well.


How does it look in your tank? ( More green, yellow, ect )

Any issues with algae?


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

BlueLagoon said:


> How does it look in your tank? ( More green, yellow, ect )
> 
> Any issues with algae?


I didnt get them yet they will be here friday. I know others have used them so we shall see but from talking to them she said they have the look of a 10,000k bulb.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

BlueLagoon said:


> I know the Giesemann bulbs are supposed to be better, but by how much?
> 
> I need to replace the 4 bulbs in my T-5 fixture.
> 
> ...


If it were me I'd go the geisemann route - I love mine (though I have yet to try the aquaflora's I've heard nothing but great things). The midday's are wonderful bulbs. Although wolf has a point: the starcoat's will grow plants, and $35 can get you a lot of plants.....

From what I've heard, geisemann bulbs are supposed to have a more accurate K rating than other bulbs, meaning 6000K bulbs are really 6000K.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

DementedMindz said:


> I didnt get them yet they will be here friday. I know others have used them so we shall see but from talking to them she said they have the look of a 10,000k bulb.


Let us know how they work out for you. That's a good price, and 8 bulbs for $54 is very tempting if they aren't too yellow.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I'm thinking I'd go the more pricy route, once you buy them, it's a done deal for years.

And the aesthetic is a large part of the lighting.

Seems like what I'd do given the situation, the mix of flora and midday should be nice. You can always buy more plants, they grow etc, you will not bulb bulbs very often.

I'd rather spend the $ on light, CO2 and tank and stand.

Plants? Check out RAOK etc.
Beg etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> Plants? Check out RAOK etc.
> Beg etc.


I like the "begging" idea. I've never begged for plants before, but maybe it's worth a shot.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Wasserpest said:


> Let us know how they work out for you. That's a good price, and 8 bulbs for $54 is very tempting if they aren't too yellow.


I will post how they are once I see them for myself.



plantbrain said:


> I'm thinking I'd go the more pricy route, once you buy them, it's a done deal for years.
> 
> And the aesthetic is a large part of the lighting.
> 
> ...



Sometimes the pricey route is not always the best. I am sure there is other light bulbs out there that beat alot of the higher price light bulbs such as Giesemann.

Same thing goes for fixtures as well would you buy a fishneedit light over a sunlight supply light?

I cant say how the aesthetic part is going to look cause I have never used either bulb yet but will be trying them on friday when they arrive.

I think its unfair to say that the aesthetic of one bulb will be better then those of another until they are both tested out and side by side comparisons are done.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Well, you are welcomed to test and see the bulbs yourself then:redface:
Your $ after all. I've already done it and know what I like better.
It's based on asethetics mostly. A pair of middays and floras are nice to look at and who knows the other bulbs, I have quite a few T5's, I like the Giesimans personally out of all of them. I can easily get more plants, so that's not an issue, I will not order more bulbs generally unless one fries out. 
I bought a number of bulbs just to see, and base the opinion on those. I have not measured them or compared their spect outputs etc for PAR vs PUR or anything like that for the cheapo brands, the info is not available, but it is for the Gieseiman and some others.

Some might care about that.
So for the brands I bought, it is quite fair for my personal goals. 
No, I'm not going to compare every T5 maker and color temp, but I think I did compare 5 brands and 8 color temps out.

More than most folks.


As far Sunlight vs Fishneedit fixtures....... now .... that's another topic and not one specific to the poster's question. I cannot justify more $ there(more than 200$ in some cases) with the fixtures, or with ADA canister filters vs an Ehiem. The asethetics are different, some folks might like the Tek, some might like the FNIN. 

Given a choice between 30-50$ in plants vs 30-50$ in bulbs, I'd go with the bulbs every time if I liked the color. Plants are cheap and easy to grow and get from friends, begging etc. I often give weeds away in the hopes they will return the favor to me and other folks someday, and this good will goes a long way:thumbsup:What price do you put on that? 

So that's less of a factor for this person. They seem concerned about aesthetics and the look. I provided a counter example to the cheaper is better crowd. Been there done that:redface: But there are valid arguments for both cheapo bulbs and the Giesemann.
For myself, I'm into the color aspect a lot and aesthetics. I can buy K+ from ADA for $$$ or use K2SO4 for peanuts. Some justify those, but such trade offs are pretty weak in other examples. This one, not so much and asethetics are more weight for myself. I have to look at it for the next 2-4 years. 


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Yeah I am going to test the bulbs and see cause its the only way to do it since alot of people dont. If you dont test it yourself and go by what everyone else says all the time then we wouldnt ever know what the truth really was.

So do you own middays and floras from Giesemann? Cause you had me confused in one post your saying - "the mix of flora and midday *should be nice*" and then in another your saying - "A pair of middays and floras *are nice to look at*" so I wasnt sure which it is.

The bottom line is I really think there is other bulbs out there though who will compare to both there bulbs and be a fraction of the cost. Its not always better to go with the name brand but rather the one that works the best for what your trying to do with them.

I am sure there will be people who say yeah there bulbs are great and that there amazing yeah I am sure they are but guess what if someone finds another bulb at half there cost and it does the same thing and compares the same im sure they will be the next best thing to.


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## BlueLagoon (Jan 2, 2009)

While asethetics of the bulbs are important, whats even MORE on my mind is Algae control. I've read too much about cheap china bulbs causing undue algae, after only 6 months of usage. Your thoughts on this?

Tom: You mention using the bulbs for years? Wont I have to replace these ( even the better Giesemann ) after 1 year or so, due to to it losing it's color over time? Your talking me into getting them, I just want to know what to expect on the replacement times. 
PS: I'll be begging some plants from you very soon


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

BlueLagoon said:


> I've read too much about cheap china bulbs causing undue algae, after only 6 months of usage. Your thoughts on this?


Could you point me to post where its showing that the cheap china bulbs caused the algae? Can you point me to post showing that the costly Giesemann bulbs wont? You cant blame it on bulbs unless there is facts backing it up.


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## dobie832 (Aug 4, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> I'm thinking I'd go the more pricy route, once you buy them, it's a done deal for years.
> 
> And the aesthetic is a large part of the lighting.
> 
> ...


I doubt you'd have much intensity after 2 years; even with T5 HO linear.


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## BlueLagoon (Jan 2, 2009)

DementedMindz said:


> Could you point me to post where its showing that the cheap china bulbs caused the algae? Can you point me to post showing that the costly Giesemann bulbs wont? You cant blame it on bulbs unless there is facts backing it up.


This is fairly well known in the Salywater Coral tank world. I was one who bought a super cheap PC lighting on ebay. Worked great for a few months, then the bulb spectrum breaks down and algea starts getting rampant. Knowing I needed to replace the bulbs ( and not liking the heat coming off the PC bulbs ), dummy me bought another cheap T5HO fixutre. Algea slows up, until about 6 months after I bought the T-5. Then Algea problems again. I know the bulbs wernt 100% of the cause, but it wasnt helping. I dont have the threads to quote ( where I got the info from ), I didnt think I needed to keep the links, so I didnt.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

So we could put that down as another myth then. Nothing against you but unless studies and test prove it then we dont know its true.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

dobie832 said:


> I doubt you'd have much intensity after 2 years; even with T5 HO linear.


Thankfully, with the number of PAR meters in use increasing, we'll be able to better quantify the changes in light intensity over time.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

PC and T5 bulbs do get dim with time/use, they still grow plants however.

Aesthetics are personal preference.


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## BlueLagoon (Jan 2, 2009)

DementedMindz said:


> So we could put that down as another myth then. Nothing against you but unless studies and test prove it then we dont know its true.


No, its not a Myth. I did a very quick search and found this for you:

Author is Albert J. Thiel ( You can Google him to learn who he is )



> <Saltman> Question: Can lighting that is getting old cause a buildup of hair algae, as well as lightening of corals?
> <Albert> Yes certainly but only if the nutrients necessary for algae and diatoms to grow are present in the water already. While the spectrum of such an older light may promote algae growth as it shifts towards the yellow and red, unless there are nutrients in the water, algae cannot grow. Light is only a catalyst. Nutrients (phosphate and silicate mainly) need to be present as well.
> If you were to put 10 000 watts over a bowl of absolute pure water nothing would happen because their are no nutrients for the algae to grown on. Light is a catalyst not the food for algae.


Again, I knew it wasnt THE problem, but knew poor lighting can promote Algae. And cheap china bulbs were some of the discussions I had read before.

Beleive me, I'd love nothing more than spend $30 than $100 ( including shipping ) for new T5 lamps. But, since I am starting over with a new tank, I want to set it up as best as I can. I went the cheap route on my reef setup and regret it ( just tore it down and sold off everything ).


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

BlueLagoon said:


> No, its not a Myth. I did a very quick search and found this for you:
> 
> Author is Albert J. Thiel ( You can Google him to learn who he is )
> 
> ...


Mr. Thiel's statement is false anyway. I suspect he is talking about salt water tanks? No one to my knowledge has shown that certain light spectra cause algae to grow, and we should all know by now that the presence of phosphates in the water has no bearing on algae beginning to grow. Silicates are present in close to half of the tap water in this country, based on a quick survey of water quality reports I found with google and read about a year ago. I doubt that silicates are relevant either, but I don't know if that has been tested. In any case, algae require far less nutrient concentration in the water than plants do, at least according to what I read. And, that makes sense, given the minute mass of algal matter in even a bad algae attack.


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## dobie832 (Aug 4, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> Mr. Thiel's statement is false anyway. I suspect he is talking about salt water tanks? No one to my knowledge has shown that certain light spectra cause algae to grow, and we should all know by now that the presence of phosphates in the water has no bearing on algae beginning to grow. Silicates are present in close to half of the tap water in this country, based on a quick survey of water quality reports I found with google and read about a year ago. I doubt that silicates are relevant either, but I don't know if that has been tested. In any case, algae require far less nutrient concentration in the water than plants do, at least according to what I read. And, that makes sense, given the minute mass of algal matter in even a bad algae attack.


Where do you do your reading? Your statements are not very acurate.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

dobie832 said:


> Where do you do your reading? Your statements are not very acurate.


I would enjoy reading what the inaccuracies are. I'm serious. This is how I learn.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

BlueLagoon said:


> No, its not a Myth. I did a very quick search and found this for you:
> 
> Author is Albert J. Thiel ( You can Google him to learn who he is )
> 
> ...



So now your saying that poor lighting cause the algae cause this guy with a salt water tank says so? What studies has he done on it for freshwater tanks and how has he proved it? How has he proven that cheap bulbs weather from China or USA caused algae?

I say its people like you who keep these myths up and ruin it for the rest of us in the hobby. If you dont know its a fact and that test have not proved it then dont state otherwise.

You went the cheap route and failed at reef keeping so now its cause of the cheap route you took or the cheap lights? How do you know it wasnt nothing you did that made you fail at that hobby? You cant even sit there and compare a reef tank to a planted tank they are far to different.

Can you use cheap lights in a planted tank and get away with it and still grow plants? Yes you can look at regular fluorescents they work just fine I am sure they wouldnt work to well in reef keeping though.

Like I said what happens when someone comes along with a meter and proves that these light bulbs or lights costing the most dont always work the best? Take ada for example on that and toms meter readings. What if they prove a light bulb that cost $10 compared to one that cost $25 works just as effective or if not better? Then we would have people like you who jump right on the bandwagon.

The bottom line is before you ever go saying it causes algae or they dont work like a name brand popular light bulb prove the facts and back your statements up.




dobie832 said:


> Where do you do your reading? Your statements are not very acurate.


Do you have something to back this up? Cause if so then enlighten us so we could learn a bit more.


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## jjp2 (May 24, 2008)

Old bulbs by themself can not cause algae. What likely happens is when the bulbs dim, the conditions in the tank may change which allow a break out of algae. 

The obvious change is that less light will cause the plants to grow slower. With a tank of fast growing plants this would be a noticable change where the change in light might be a negligible change for slow growing plants.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

jjp2 said:


> Old bulbs by themself can not cause algae. What likely happens is when the bulbs dim, the conditions in the tank may change which allow a break out of algae.
> 
> The obvious change is that less light will cause the plants to grow slower. With a tank of fast growing plants this would be a noticable change where the change in light might be a negligible change for slow growing plants.


And the winner is............:redface:

I've seen no evidence that old bulbs cause algae in plant tanks, which is the specific question there. Some have been 5 years old etc without any issues. 

The thread's topic however is about GE vs the Giesemann and whether it is important or not to spend a bit more(50$ or so in this case?) for them. The poster specifically asked whether or not we felt the cost was worth it vs spending more on plants for the initial planting.

Not much more.

I said I like the asethetics of the Giesemann, having seen them and the GE bulbs, as well as 3 other "brands". I also said I tend to not to make bulb purchases that often, so I tend to go with the most asethetic likeable bulb for me and the higher grade. Maybe it's a bit wasteful for the few $. It's hard to play around and try before you buy without spending the $ to purchase the bulbs. I could get the nice looking bulbs for cheap and that I knew where good etc, I'll happliy do it. But I know what I've seen and like.

But when you add the $ for the bulb vs the plants, other folks can help out with the weeds easily.

Then the cost issue goes away and they can get whatever they want without the $ being an issue.

A good trade off for the poster:thumbsup:

So what weeds are you looking for?

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

less light = less nutrient uptake. if anyone got more algae because of an old or cheap bulb, this could have been the reason. massive buildup of nutrients because they didn't know enough/pay attention enough to change their dosing to accomidate the new parameters in their tanks.

The color "shift' didn't have anything to do with it. (aside from, of course, the plants not being able to use certain colors of the spectrum that the algae could more readily absorb) but a lot of people use "wide spectrum" bulbs with no ill effects whatsoever, as long as they pay attention to their dosing/Co2 levels.

I would more readily look into whether or not the guy bought a cheapo canister filter to go along with his bulbs, and ended up with a lack of proper *flow* which could have been yet another cause. If he didn't pay very much attention (or money) to his lighting, (one of the KEY ingredients in a successful reef OR planted tank) I'm hard pressed to automatically buy into his explanation of WHY something happened, even more hard pressed to associate an issue with saltwater agae issues with the same issue in a freshwater planted tank.

I wasn't there, so I can't speculate directly, but neither was anyone here, so his particular story certainly shouldn't be used as an example, (certainly not as PROOF) that cheaper/longer used bulbs will "induce" algae in any way aside from indirectly with several other factors possibly being far more prominent.

*I apologise for continuing the non-topic subject without commenting on the bulbs themselves* There are few bandwagons I'll readily jump on that say you need to spend more $$$ to get more plant/beauty. Bulbs is one of the very few. It's one of the two that I can't DIY (pressurized Co2 being the other) and the chief factor in plant growth, so of all the things in the tank, I'd say spend the money there before plants. Patience is a virtue that I've had to learn to assimilate since starting planted tanks because I'm not a rich man so I've had to piece together tanks bit by bit until I had everything ready, which I think is what you should look into doing here if you need to do that to get the nicer bulbs. (I would NEVER tell you the same thing about getting ADA tanks, or ferts or glass lily pipes with GPS navigation installed or whatever lol) but bulbs I'd add a vote for the geismann's


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

BlueLagoon said:


> How does it look in your tank? ( More green, yellow, ect )
> 
> Any issues with algae?


Couldnt be happier with the price I paid and the look it gives. They look like 10,000k bulbs almost.



Wasserpest said:


> Let us know how they work out for you. That's a good price, and 8 bulbs for $54 is very tempting if they aren't too yellow.


I would have to say they are not to yellow looking at all. I think they almost look like my old 10,000k bulbs they are very bright.

I switched from 2 - SlimPaq 10,000K T5HO and 2 - SlimPaq Freshwater T5HO (bright pinkish bulb) and its a night and day difference. I wouldnt change anything and I am very happy with the purchase and price.


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## MiSo (Oct 26, 2005)

one of the hard lessons i've learned in planted tanks is spend the money right ONCE! (i've been thru my fair shares of filters, substrates, and light fixtures)
don't settle for something you "think" you may be happy with. go with your first choice no matter how expensive it is. ultimately, you'll end up being happier and save yourself a lot of cash in the long run.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

MiSo said:


> one of the hard lessons i've learned in planted tanks is spend the money right ONCE! (i've been thru my fair shares of filters, substrates, and light fixtures)
> don't settle for something you "think" you may be happy with. go with your first choice no matter how expensive it is. ultimately, you'll end up being happier and save yourself a lot of cash in the long run.



Dont think this is always the best idea ask tom what he spent on his ada light and how happy he is with it. He could of bought something alot better at about half the price at least.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

BlueLagoon said:


> 1st off, why do you feel the need to attack someone ( Statement in bold, actually, just about your whole post )? I can only assume your trying to justify you lamp purchase, which I really dont care about. If it works for you, thats fine. But do not attack something I say because you dont want to research the subject yourself, as I did. I gave you just one example from a person who is well known in the reefkeeping world. It is no myth that the lamps degrade in color spectrum over time. When the lamp does degrade, the spectrum *encourages* the algae growth. Encourages, not causes. Its no myth that as the lamp degrades, the plants do not grow as well as they did when the lamp was new.
> 
> As for cheap China bulbs, they are just that, cheap. They are not made to maintain thier K rating as well as the better bulbs. This is where my SW system and mistake in buying the cheap lamps came into play. Again, it was NOT the lamp itself that caused the problem, it encouraged it. And both times I had a problem, was when the bulbs got older. When they were new, I had no problem. Nothing else changed in the way I kept the tank. Other experienced reefkeepers had witnessed this also, and the word gets out what can help lead to an algae problem. Its called real life experiences.
> 
> ...



First of all I am not attacking you or belittling you I am saying what I feel is that wrong? Should I run around and kiss ass all day cause someone like you cant take it? Nah I say what I feel and how I feel its the best way to be.

Second I dont care if you buy the bulbs I bought or spend 20-30 a bulb I am going to go with my bulbs and you will go with yours. You asked a question on a public forum and you are getting responses weather you like them or you dont that is your choice.

So you keep going back to cheap china bulbs which I guess you used in your tanks and how they *encourage* the algae growth and dont maintain their K rating.

Now have you used meters to prove they dont keep there rating? Have you used meters to test any of the statements you said? Its bold statements your making if your not testing things to prove or disprove anything you claim. Also I am sure that with every bulb they do degrade but do they cause algae? Read what others wrote here they seem to think the same thing as well that there is no evidence that old bulbs cause algae.

As for the cheaper bulbs I bought them cause of the price which that is true but also for there K rating as well to see if there is a difference in each. Did I ever say one time that cheap bulbs are as good as Giesemann or any others for that matter? No I never did but if we are able to test the bulbs and find a bulb that works just as well then I am sure there will be plenty of happy people out there .

Lastly when you try and do ( real world experiences ) they dont always work out well cause you will always have a doubter until test are done and facts are proven and images are posted. So how long your bulbs are going to keep their spectrum's proper? I think you will be the only one to be able to tell that no one else. Different bulbs will last longer then others that is true but without meters you cant tell much or how long they will be of good use.
*
Update*: The bulbs are looking very promising so far. I have never seen my plants pearl like this and all I did was change bulbs. :thumbsup:


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