# Wow!!!! Odno Lighting Rocks!! Bright!!!



## jamesbrokman1 (Jul 10, 2005)

Just got done with my experiment with the odno overdriving bulbs, i used 1 4 bulb f32 t8 ballast on 1 f32 t8 bulb and wow it is almost 4 times as bright, got to be around 80-90 watts, now all i need to know is what is the best bulb to use to get the most usable radiation for my plants, right now it has a octron 6500 k bulb, i wil be using 10 of these bad setups, 10-f32 t8' running 80-90 watts each betwwen 800-900watts total on my 300 gallon all for $220


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Yes, ODNO is much much brighter, but it is not a perfect exchange of energy. Overdriving 4 X only provides a real change in brightness equivalent to about 2.5 X. Sorry to burst your bubble.


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## jamesbrokman1 (Jul 10, 2005)

*bubble?*

Bubble? Not bursting mine, i just finished my hood for my 300 gallon with 10 t-8's overdriven with a 4 bulb ballast on each bulb and i am running around 800-900 watts, all for $200? you cant burst my bubble :icon_bigg


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Wooooooooooooohooooooooo! Watch that electricity meter spin as quickly as one of those Cheetah hard drives :tongue:


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Hehehe...my point was it's really only about 700 watts....only.


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## jamesbrokman1 (Jul 10, 2005)

*???*

How do you figure it is only 700 watts? let me here this math?


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## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

you might be putting that much "wattage" into the ballast, and you're surely using that much from your outlet, but so much of it becomes heat energy instead of light, that you have to start taking efficiency into consideration when calculating "watts" of light. sure, you really are running the same amount of "watts" from the wall as someone with 10 x 4 t-8 bulbs. however, with ODNO you don't get the full benefit of each watt from the bulb like you do with NO. The efficiency of the bulb starts to decrease a little above 1x, and starts what is most easily explained as "exponential decay" above that. the more power you put to the bulb, the less increase in light output per watt above that threshold... until eventually all you're doing is creating a really really hot ballast bulbs that burn out in 2 months, and water temp that's just right for softening spaghetti noodles.  Now, don't let this be discouraging... 4x ODNO is *fine*. by fine I mean that it is still within the realm of appreciable returns on the extra power being put into the lamps. there are calcuations with lux meters, etc on various sites, and I don't have links to them right now, sorry.. but i'm pretty sure that the numbers that were presented on that site went something like this...
NO = 1x lux
2x ODNO = 1.5-1.7x lux
3x ODNO = 2.0-2.3x lux
4x ODNO = 2.5-2.7x lux

so with 4x, you're really somewhere slightly above double light output, and really really warm. that's the best explanation i can give as to why you're not really at "800" watts. 

as an aside, your math confuses me... 32 watts per bulb times 4x input power times 10 setups = 1280 watts... so to figure comparable light output for this setup and assuming my above numbers are right... 32 watts per bulb times 2.6(median) times 10 = 832 watts... so your number was pretty good, but from what I can gather from the thread, it got there through bad math 
if i'm wrong, let me know... it could be that you knew the factor to use when 4x-ing the rigs and just didn't mention that to the rest of us. anyhow, that's a LOT of light, and should work out great for you. best of luck, and post some pics of that blinding rig!

Oqsy


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## jamesbrokman1 (Jul 10, 2005)

*bulbs*

I am testing these bulbs and have been running now for 6 days straight and the bulbs arent even hot a little warmer than usual but no where near a pc bulb


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

I am erring on the side of inefficiency. I suppose my point was that the bulbs are not 4x as bright as usual. Actually wattage means nothing compared to lumens, which is why the lower wattage T8 bulbs are much better than the T12s.


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

I agree with Master, your probably looking at less than 800 watts. I have one 32 watt 5500K bulb over two ten gallon tanks OD for around 60 watts (3X ODNO). Two bulbs ODNO 4 X over the tanks hurts to look at them, not to mention the heat transfer in an enclosed hood is substantial. 

Is your hood vented?


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## jamesbrokman1 (Jul 10, 2005)

Those bulbs dont get that hot, i have had one running for 7 days straight now and its not that warm i can hold my hand on it, also ever heard of a cooling fan? I dont really care about the watts, i got 6900 lumens out of 1 bulb


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

I feel that I should say that I'm not dogging ODNO at all. I've been running 4 2X ODNO T8's on my 75 gallon and can grow just about anything.


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## freeflyer (Feb 3, 2005)

jamesbrokman1 said:


> also ever heard of a cooling fan?


No, please explain


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## HammerJoe (Jul 15, 2005)

grandmasterofpool said:


> I feel that I should say that I'm not dogging ODNO at all. I've been running 4 2X ODNO T8's on my 75 gallon and can grow just about anything.



I just found out about ODNO and I am very much interested.
If I understood you you have 4 bulbs and two ballasts right?

Do you know how much watts that translate into?

Thanks, I am just trying understand how wattage works with odno.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

From what I have heard (have not measured it myself, but makes sense) is that the wattage increases proportionally. So if you have a 32W bulb with a ballast that provides 32W on one lead (NO) connecting two leads would push 64W through the bulb, 4 leads 128W etc. That's why most ppl find that the 4x is a little too hot and risky.

Like I said, haven't measured it, and perhaps there are other factors playing into this. Ballast efficiency, etc.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> From what I have heard (have not measured it myself, but makes sense) is that the wattage increases proportionally. So if you have a 32W bulb with a ballast that provides 32W on one lead (NO) connecting two leads would push 64W through the bulb, 4 leads 128W etc. That's why most ppl find that the 4x is a little too hot and risky.
> 
> Like I said, haven't measured it, and perhaps there are other factors playing into this. Ballast efficiency, etc.


Those are the wattages you get in an ideal world. We have to take into account the law of diminishing returns and the wattage goes down by a certain factor each time. I forget the exact numbers, but overdriving 4X equates to about 2.5-2.7X after all is said and done.

There's a good article on how to do ODNO on the cheap at www.gwapa.org


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## HammerJoe (Jul 15, 2005)

Thanks for the info..

If I may ask, for a 75gal tank, what would be the best config?

4 bulbs od 2X each, or 2 bulbs od 4x?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

grandmasterofpool said:


> Those are the wattages you get in an ideal world. We have to take into account the law of diminishing returns and the wattage goes down by a certain factor each time. I forget the exact numbers, but overdriving 4X equates to about 2.5-2.7X after all is said and done.


Not sure who got this right... talking about wattage, not light output (lumens, lux, whatnot). I think the wattage doubles, but the related light output only increases by 1.5 or so, depending on many things.

As the often mentioned law of diminishing returns tells us, you'd be better off with 4 bulbs 2x ODNO.


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## HammerJoe (Jul 15, 2005)

I figured 4 bulbs at 2x would be the ideal but I wanted more opinions on it. 

Now on a hydro cost point of view, what would you say who'd be more expensive?

4 bulbs at 2X (32w bulb) or one of those coralife 220W pc bulbs?

I am just trying to get a sense of the real cost, because I want to have suficient light in a 75gal for moderate plants but not be paying thru the nose in hydro costs.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

I bought 4 shop lights from Home Depot and put two ballasts in two shop lights so that each bulb was overdriven twice. I screwed some wooden legs to the ends so they sit on top of the tank and painted the whole thing flat black. Total cost was about $32 for the shop lights and $30 for bulbs. Add in odds and ends and you have cheap intense lighting for about $70.00. As I mentioned before there's an article on www.gwapa.org on how to do this exact DIY project. 

I now have MH / ODNO T8 lighting on my tank, but not because the ODNO setup didn't grow plants. I'm just a little project happy.


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## HammerJoe (Jul 15, 2005)

I understand somewhat how wattages are affected with this.

Assuming that a 2X OD 32W bulb outputs 56W of light, is that what the bulb is consuming in hydro?

I am just trying to figure out how much it costs in hydro to have 4 32W bulbs OD at 2X.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

By "hydro" are you asking what your electric bill will be? It'll be about the same as if you had a 4 x 55 watt pc setup.


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## HammerJoe (Jul 15, 2005)

That's it.

Thanks


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## HammerJoe (Jul 15, 2005)

Let me get this straight, a 48" bulb delivers 40W.

Assuming that a 2X OD gives 2X-2.5X more power it means,

40W*2.5 potentially 100W more likely 85-90watts, which means I would only need a ballast and two bulbs for a total 180-190W. (exactly what I am looking at getting anyway.)

Am I reading this wrong?

I would like to have the dawn/dusk effect and if I run two 40w bulbs from the same ballast can't do that, so I could use two ballasts to drive each bulb separatly.
hmmm one of the ballasts could be driven at 4x on one bulb, and the other just 2X... 

There's some possibilities here.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Guys, power consumption and light output are two completely different things.

Power consumption is measured in Watts, and determines how fast your electricity meter spins, and how much you pay every month for your energy bill.

Light output is how bright the bulbs are. Measured in whatever lumen or candela or lux or something.

Both are somewhat connected.

When you OD a bulb, light output does not proportionally increase to power consumption. Aka law of diminishing returns. You put more in it, and get more out, but relatively spoken, you get less the more you put in. Confusing, huh?

So onto an example. You have a 40W bulb, which draws (power consumption) about 40W of energy out of your wall. Maybe some more, maybe some less, depending on the ballast. So if you OD this 2x, the power consumption will be double (80W), but the light output will NOT be double, more like 1.5x.

Now that still doesn't mean that it draws only 60W, it's just that we keep confusing power consumption with light output. If the bulb happened to output 3000 lumen, it should now 2x overdriven get us about 4500 lumen, but using double the energy. :icon_idea


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I think thats what they have been saying the way I read it Wass... more power/lesser light.

All I know is it works... roud: 
I only run a 4' HD shoplight with T-8's over my 75G and wired one bulb to the original 2x ballast and added a 3x ballast to the other bulb and my tank is growing good. Of course I am matching plants along with it. Since removing the additional 2x55w AHSupply my hairgrass has been hating life. :icon_conf 

You do not get all the efficiency mathematically but it is a heck of a cheap way to grow a nice tank as long as you try to plant accordingly and not try anything to light demanding.


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## jamesbrokman1 (Jul 10, 2005)

*odno*

i am using 1 bulb with 1 4 bulb ballast driving it 4x getiin between 80-90 watts on it, this light has been running for 22 days straight now and it is still running with no problems and bulb has not gotten any hotter than 5 minutes after i turned it on, it is in my opinion that this is a very cheap and safe alternative to pc lighting.


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## HammerJoe (Jul 15, 2005)

Thanks, I am considering going this way as well.

My plan is to get the equivalent of no more than 220W for my electrical bill.
(Maybe someone could tell me how many lumens should a 75gal tank have to be able to grow bottom plants like java moss or java fern.)

With ODNO, to achieve the same wattage I would need three 40W bulbs at 2X.

If I want to have the dawn/dusk effect (which I would like to) then I could use 4 40W bulbs, but on each ballast I would run a bulb at 2X and the other regular to achieve 120W of energy used.
Two ballasts would waste 240W which is still in the range for my electrical cost.
In lumens terms this would translate into (4500 for the 40W 2X + 3000 for regular 40W) * 2 = 15000 lumens.
Is this enough?


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

grandmasterofpool said:


> I am erring on the side of inefficiency. I suppose my point was that the bulbs are not 4x as bright as usual. Actually wattage means nothing compared to lumens, which is why the lower wattage T8 bulbs are much better than the T12s.


Wasserpest - That was my whole point from the beginning also.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I am sorry, I totally confused everyone... 

Forget lumen, it was just an example. What I meant to stress is that when choosing a ballast, just use multiply the wattage with the ODNO factor. I guess everyone is saying that already. :icon_redf 

So in your example Joe... you had 2 ballasts capable of delivering at least 120 Watts, with one 2x ODNO (80W used) and one regular (40W used) and that should work fine. Or replace them with T-8s for a little better efficiency. The nice thing about this setup is that when you want a little more light, you can overdrive the other two bulbs as well, providing the ballast can handle it.


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## SnyperP (Dec 31, 2004)

Dunno..maybe my math is wrong here. James you claim to have been running these lights for 22 days straight on the 23rd, 7 days on the 15th and 6 days on the 14th. 

So we can safely assume that you started this on the 8th so from the 8th to the 23 is only 15days. A bit shy of your 22 day estimate. I'm not bashing you, I just don't want any wrong information to get out there. As the you overdrive any lights, their life span is decreased dramatically. So it's important for people to know how well these lights are actually doing.

Anyways, got any update pictures of your 300g beast? I've been following and waiting for an update on it =D


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