# Overwhelmed with algae issues...



## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

In the last month, I increased lights and started pressurized CO2. Now I have a bad algae problem that started pretty suddenly. It seems to be brush algae and staghorn algae and some green spot (? the dots on the glass) algae. From googling and such, it seems both the brush algae and staghorn are caused by low CO2. My drop checker (using 4dkh) is green and doesn't vary much from that shade of green - slightly yellower by the time the CO2 turns off. I had been running an 8 hour photoperiod with both lights on. I run an airstone for a few hours at night. I've started dosing with Excel again and dropped the photoperiod to 6 hours to fight the algae, but that's clearly not fighting the cause of the algae, right? 

It seems like I have plenty of CO2 flowing. The plants are pearly like crazy. I can see the bubbles flying through the water. The drop checker is green. I'm dosing with the Seachem line based on their recommended schedule - iron, phosphorous, potassium, nitrogen, and flourish. It doesn't seem like my CO2 should be any higher since the drop checker is a nice shade of green, but it that what I need to do?? Even with the airstone at night (I have loaches and it seems to make them happier), my drop checker doesn't go back to blue, so I don't think I'm outgassing the CO2 and causing any huge fluctuations.

It's a 14 gallon tank with 48 watts of light and pressurized CO2 on a timer - comes on an hour before the lights and goes off an hour before the lights. Started it up in April and it's been cycled since May. No ammonia or nitrite readings ever. The algae issues only started up since the I doubled the light and started the CO2.

I'm at a loss. Any idea for things to try would be appreciated.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

I'd cut the light in half for a while, and start double dosing the fertilizers. May increase the CO2 a bit during the day as well. If the fish aren't gasping for air, it isn't too much. Change 50% of water weekly, maybe twice a week until algae is gone. Manual removal is important.

What is your fish load specifically?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

fish dont gasp because of too much CO2. if that happens, it means not enough O2. suffocation is different from CO2 poisoning.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

@[email protected] said:


> fish dont gasp because of too much CO2. if that happens, it means not enough O2. suffocation is different from CO2 poisoning.


Fish WILL gasp because of excess CO2. Not to say that they wouldn't gasp because of lack of oxygen.

Take a tank, put in some fish. Add three airstones for adequate oxygenation. Crank up the CO2. I guarantee you that the fish will gasp at the surface.

(Not that I'd ever do it.)


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

First, I would like to say IMO, drop checkers are pretty much useless. I bought a second one and I barely ever look at the thing. I just examine the PH swing (I've estimated how much my PH drops after a day of CO2) and fix my bubblerate in relation to the inhabitants of the tank (just below their tolerance level). Examining a drop checker to check my CO2 levels has not worked for me and I don't trust them much. I keep getting algae but I think the case is this:

It's probably not you having not enough CO2. It's either you don't have enough circulation or simply the fact that you need to increase your dosing on ferts.

Green spot algae means you need more phosphate. Staghorn can be due to circulation or bad water quality (ammonia). 

So increase dosage, especially phosphate, and check your filters.

I have algae issues myself, but this is what I'm going to do myself (no staghorn though, just hair algae)

You also do not need an airstone at night unless your tank has a lot of fish in there. I had 50-60...2-3" fish in my 38 gallon without an airstone at night and they all do fine. You can if you want, but you don't really need it.

You might also want to turn your lights off when you turn your CO2 off, not an hour before.


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

hey Manda.. it is Ken from the club.. I met you at the last meeting.

on the algae.. I would say that the hair algae is definitely a lack in co2. I am going to disagree with natty (respectfully). I have a co2 drop checker and it is right on the money.. I use the d4kh solution.. 1.5ml and 3-4 drops of the activator reagant (spelled wrong I know). I have tested it with the kh test and ph tests and using the chart.. it is right. I would bump up your co2 a little at a time until your drop checker gets to a light green almost yellowish. I would definitely use an airstone at night.. I tend to side with caution.. if it doesn't hurt anything and can help with making sure there is enough oxygen in the water.. than do it. I would dose excel twice the daily dosage for about a week.. it will take the hair algae a little bit to go away.. but it will. sae's are great for hair algae removal.


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

Well, the reason why I don't like to depend on my drop checker is because even at yellow, I still get algae that are said to be caused by low CO2.

I think I already told you the filters and powerheads I have on my tank, so it can't be flow problems. 

So that's why I think it is the drop checker. I got SAEs and they're pretty worthless, in the end it still depends mostly on you. SAEs are completely overrated IMO.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

eyebeatbadgers said:


> I'd cut the light in half for a while, and start double dosing the fertilizers. May increase the CO2 a bit during the day as well. If the fish aren't gasping for air, it isn't too much. Change 50% of water weekly, maybe twice a week until algae is gone. Manual removal is important.
> 
> What is your fish load specifically?


I've got 2 zebra loaches, 7 (?) harlequin rasboras, 6 neon tetras, and 2 zebra danios. Also some Amano shrimp (maybe 8?), and a 4 nerite snails. The tank is pretty densely planted.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Torpedobarb said:


> hey Manda.. it is Ken from the club.. I met you at the last meeting.



Hi, Ken. I stole your graphic. =)


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

Manda99 said:


> Hi, Ken. I stole your graphic. =)


you didn't steal it.. that is why it is there!


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

The nerites should take care of the Green Spot Algae in not time. I had a little bit of GSA because I wasn't dosing phosphates. Added 2 nerites to my 29 gallon and they ate it all in a day.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

fish gasp if co2 is to high. that is a natural response of respiration in higher organisms. if the algae is bad, change parameters per everybody's advice. if it's really bad, do a 3 day blackout(no co2, and total dark) and then still change parameters. good luck!!

jd


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

marufovega said:


> fish gasp if co2 is to high. that is a natural response of respiration in higher organisms. if the algae is bad, change parameters per everybody's advice. if it's really bad, do a 3 day blackout(no co2, and total dark) and then still change parameters. good luck!!
> 
> jd


Isn't planted tanks really frustrating sometimes or what?


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

natty,

well i'm sorry if my comment bugged you. but let me tell you that i've been round and round with this type of algae. in my experience, getting rid of it is not as simple as just increasing co2 or ferts, or just adding a few sae's or amanos. that stuff just doesn't help much, if at all. the only thing that really seems to hurt this type of algae is altering the lighting. both intensity and photoperiod. and a blackout really hits it hard. of course, optimizing tank parameters is appropriate to keep your plants healthy, vigorous, and competitive. but in a full blown infestation, i'ld start with a three day blackout.

jd


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

BradH said:


> The nerites should take care of the Green Spot Algae in not time. I had a little bit of GSA because I wasn't dosing phosphates. Added 2 nerites to my 29 gallon and they ate it all in a day.


Yeah, I'm not overly worried about the GSA. I've had that before and it cleaned up quickly and easily - I seem to have an outbreak of that every time I do some sort of major tweaking on this aquarium. 

The stuff on the leaves of the plants is more concerning to me. I've been dosing Excel though and the brush algae on the java moss is appearing to turn grey. I think that's a good sign, right? 

The stuff that I _think_ is staghorn is unaffected so far. But it doesn't seem to be getting worse either. It seems to be localized to the Crypt at this point. It's along the edges of the leaves and branching out like little green sticks. The brush algae is basically covering my java moss and the roots of my java fern at this point. Then I've got some sort of green fuzz covering some stems of my HM now. Maybe I should take some pictures for better identification?


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## turbowagon (Dec 30, 2005)

I agree that you should cut your lighting in half until the algae is under control.


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

I had a little bit of staghorn algae on a few plants that I bought. I just ran the gravel vac on them when doing water changes. Every time a little bit of it would come off and get sucked up. Eventually it was all gone. It was easy to remove for me, but that might have been because it didn't originate in my tank and therefore the water parameters didn't allow it to thrive. The only algae I've really had start in my tank are brown, green spot and it looks like I'm getting a little brush algae on my java fern. The brown was most likely due to it being a newly setup tank a few months ago. The green spot was probably too much light and not enough phosphates. Not sure about the brush. It's only 3 little spots of it. I'll probably go buy and SAE to eat it... been wanting one of those anyways. 

I think pictures would help people help you identify it better though.


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

marufovega said:


> natty,
> 
> well i'm sorry if my comment bugged you. but let me tell you that i've been round and round with this type of algae. in my experience, getting rid of it is not as simple as just increasing co2 or ferts, or just adding a few sae's or amanos. that stuff just doesn't help much, if at all. the only thing that really seems to hurt this type of algae is altering the lighting. both intensity and photoperiod. and a blackout really hits it hard. of course, optimizing tank parameters is appropriate to keep your plants healthy, vigorous, and competitive. but in a full blown infestation, i'ld start with a three day blackout.
> 
> jd


yes a blackout may help to get rid of it.. but not permanently. you have to change other elements of the tank to keep it gone.. in the experience I have had with it.. doing what I suggested has worked for me. and it has stayed away.


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

marufovega said:


> natty,
> 
> well i'm sorry if my comment bugged you. but let me tell you that i've been round and round with this type of algae


Huh? I wasn't bugged because of your comment, I was just telling you how I felt about planted tanks.

I think you misinterpret my sentence a bit. I don't have a problem with what you said at all, I have algae issues myself that's why I said that...

:hihi: fine example of how things can be completely misunderstood on a forum. It's cool though, just wanted to say that I was not upset/bugged one bit. Honestly.


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

I'll help you out.



Manda99 said:


> In the last month, I increased lights and started pressurized CO2. Now I have a bad algae problem that started pretty suddenly.


You just modified the two largest variables of a planted aquarium. Thinking they would solve whatever problem you had before is simply putting yourself on. Now you must re-think the entire ecosystem. Don't worry; I'll help get you going. Let's say you 'upgraded' rather than tried to solve a problem, which is more than likely the case.



> It seems to be brush algae and staghorn algae and some green spot (? the dots on the glass) algae. From googling and such, it seems both the brush algae and staghorn are caused by low CO2.


Brush algae (BBA), staghorn, and green spot algae (GSA), are all perfect indicators that your CO2 is low. GSA is the only algae that will provide an accurate indication of low PO4 as well. Since you have stag and BBA along with GSA, it's safe to say you have low CO2. Now if you were to only have GSA, then we would have a totally different situation.




> My drop checker (using 4dkh) is green and doesn't vary much from that shade of green - slightly yellower by the time the CO2 turns off.


It's changing--_increasing_--throughout the day? The CO2 should be depleting with the drop checker turning greener (ideally it shouldn't change color at all). What is this telling you? Hint: You need more CO2. Crank it up, don't be scared. It's far easier to solve a "too much" problem than it is a "not enough" problem. I think you're already seeing why that statement is true. Now you have to deal with ridding your tank of algae for the next month.




> I had been running an 8 hour photoperiod with both lights on. I run an airstone for a few hours at night. I've started dosing with Excel again and dropped the photoperiod to 6 hours to fight the algae, but that's clearly not fighting the cause of the algae, right?


Nope. Never sacrifice the plants to rid tank of algae. Excel is a good idea to supplement your existing gas CO2 until you can get things worked out. Your light is high, but in a small tank, you can compensate (I'll explain later). I'd run the lights for no more than 8 hours per day.




> It seems like I have plenty of CO2 flowing...The drop checker is green.














> The plants are pearly like crazy. I can see the bubbles flying through the water.


It's because of the high light. They will stop doing this before too long. The only thing that will be pearling will be algae.




> I'm dosing with the Seachem line based on their recommended schedule - iron, phosphorous, potassium, nitrogen, and flourish.


There's the other problem. More! Lots more! You're bigtime now, paltry dosing habits do not belong here. Dose every other day (daily for Iron). This is a daily dosing suggestion (figure out semi-daily yourself and note the switches between mL and ppm): 4.0mL of Flourish, 0.5mL Iron, target 5ppm N/0.25ppm P/2.0ppm K. You may need to raise these amounts when you get more plant mass.




> It doesn't seem like my CO2 should be any higher since the drop checker is a nice shade of green, but it that what I need to do??


Absolutely. Yellow is your friend. This is a bad analogy, but have you ever eaten asparagus? You either get it or you don't... 




> Even with the airstone at night (I have loaches and it seems to make them happier), my drop checker doesn't go back to blue, so I don't think I'm outgassing the CO2 and causing any huge fluctuations.



De-gassing the tank at night is actually ideal. It's good for the bacteria and your inhabitants. Bacteria play a huge role in the overall health of a planted tank. It's too much to get into now, but it's similar to morale. Keep 'em happy and they work efficiently. You don't have to be extreme about it...a heavy surface ripple will work fine. Speaking of surface ripples, this is an ideal condition of a planted tank during the day...inject a ton of CO2 creating a mist and keep a mild surface ripple to de-gass the tank somewhat and introduce extra oxygen.



I know well the stage you're in now. Once you fix the CO2 problems, you had better have a solution for the upcoming nutrient problems or else you will get hammered with hair algae...and green fuzz, green dust, and GSA. Plants always try to uptake more than they need in anticipation of hard times (it's called "luxury uptake")...once they run out, green algae will show up. You're in the 'running out' stage.

Hope this helps. Remember, light is a catalyst for nutrient uptake. If you find you're in over your head, cut the total amount of light...not the photoperiod.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Avalon said:


> You just modified the two largest variables of a planted aquarium. Thinking they would solve whatever problem you had before is simply putting yourself on. Now you must re-think the entire ecosystem. Don't worry; I'll help get you going. Let's say you 'upgraded' rather than tried to solve a problem, which is more than likely the case.


I appreciate all the input and lengthy reply. Just for the record though, I wasn't trying to solve anything with my light and CO2 upgrade. I had a happily clean and thriving low-tech tank. I just wanted to be fancy. :redface: 

So I need to dose MORE than what the Seachem bottles suggest now that I'm high light and pressurized Co2?? I'd be following their dosage chart pretty religiously out of fear of overdosing? I've been dosing Flourish (1.2mL) twice a week, iron (1.4mL) daily, potassium (2.3mL) twice a week, nitrogen (.9mL) twice a week, and phosporous (.9mL) twice a week. I've only re-added Excel to try to kill algae.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Avalon said:


> Hope this helps. Remember, light is a catalyst for nutrient uptake. If you find you're in over your head, cut the total amount of light...not the photoperiod.


So are you saying that until I get through this, I should leave my photoperiod at 8 hours and my CO2 running, but maybe turn off one of the bulbs?


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

Manda99 said:


> So are you saying that until I get through this, I should leave my photoperiod at 8 hours and my CO2 running, but maybe turn off one of the bulbs?


Have you considered dry dosing? 

Anyhow, just lower your photoperiod if you have issues controlling your algae, not take away a bulb, just shorten your photoperiod.

I don't think its a WPG issue.

Basically, you want to lower your photoperiod because for some reason, probably nutrient inbalance or CO2, the plants are not taking in everything they need to grow and therefore the algae has the chance to grow instead. So by lowering the photoperiod, you're just giving enough light for the plants but limiting algae growth by shortening your lights-on period.

It just helps further limit the growth of algae so you'll have more time to find a solution to it. After you find the solution, you may return your photoperiod back to how it was before.

Correct me if I'm wrong, thank you.


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

I'm not going to help you with your Seachem dosing...I'm not familiar with anything other than Flourish, Flourish Iron, and Flourish Excel. The rest is purely marketing IMO. I have helped folks with Seachem ferts before and it's crazy how much you'll need to dose (and spend). You'll see for yourself.

I know you weren't trying to fix a problem. You want to grow plants, and lots of them. Ideally, you should be able to grow anything you want at any given time. I just told you how to do it. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

Natty said:


> Anyhow, just lower your photoperiod if you have issues controlling your algae, not take away a bulb, just shorten your photoperiod.
> 
> I don't think its a WPG issue.


I used to shorten photoperiod, but retained intensity. I now keep an 8 hour duration, but have cut intensity, and have better results. 

I think (and that's dangerous) it has to do with algae's ability to quickly start photosynthesis full steam. Shortening the photoperiod might actually benefit the algae more than just cutting intensity, by slowing the potential growth of the plants you want to keep. I don't fully understand why it works, but I think that's the premise. Maybe I'm full of crap


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

Manda99 said:


> So are you saying that until I get through this, I should leave my photoperiod at 8 hours and my CO2 running, but maybe turn off one of the bulbs?



that is exactly what he is saying.. and he knows what he is talking about. I agree with him.. don't deprive the plants of the amount of time the lights are on.. just the intensity for now. bump that co2 up!


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

Natty said:


> Have you considered dry dosing?
> 
> Anyhow, just lower your photoperiod if you have issues controlling your algae, not take away a bulb, just shorten your photoperiod.
> 
> ...



Well, I think you're wrong. Never lower a photoperiod. Not only are you hurting your plants, you're hurting yourself. We keep planted aquariums as a hobby...something to enjoy on a daily basis. Yet you are so concerned about plant health that you can't see the forest for the trees. Plants are adaptable...one of the foremost vegetative aquatic heirarchy's. But you want to shortchange them. I understand how you see the mechanisms...increase light, cut the photoperiod. Well I'm the opposite: cut the light, and leave the photoperiod be. I've been doing this for a long time...I've had tons of light and not enough. I know what works. Patience is key. Moderate light and good CO2 will yeild the best results over time for the average plantaholic than any other method.


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

Understood roud:

Thank you for the information. It's always nice to learn something new.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Okay, well, I just reset my timers back to 8 hours and flipped off one of the lights and cranked up the co2 a bit. So now I'm at 24 watts over 14 gallons.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Okay, here's the pics of the algae:

What I thought might be staghorn?



















What I thought might be BBA (just turned grey - dying?) on java moss? 










Fuzzy stuff on HM? Really hard to get a pic of.










And you can see the spot algae on the glass in all the pics.


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

It's staghorn. Increase CO2 and overall water circulation.


An excellent article is available on Tropica's website: Go to www.tropica.com
Click on "Aquaristic" and select "The Biology of Water Plants" tab and read the "CO2 and light stimulate the growth" articles (there are 4 parts). Fantastic reading!


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

great article! thanks


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

I also kicked up the flow on my filter pump since poor circulation seemed to be mentioned several times.

So, total changes are decreased lighting, increased CO2, and increased circulation. 

I also ordered every test kit under the sun (I go a little nutty and OCD when I have a problem to solve) so that I can try to get a better handle on my actual CO2 levels and nutrient requirements. 

And I leave for vacation in 16 days. *sigh*. I'm dreading what I'm going to come back to considering the algae problems that I'm having.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

manda99

is this tank a 14 gallon biocube? i'm assuming that it is. i also have one of these all-in-one setups. one problem with this kit; however, is the sump filter which has the water pour over bioballs in the filter. this degasses alot of co2 and it may be keeping you from getting appropriate co2 levels during the day. what i did to fix this is just fill the tank way past the fill line mark such that all 3 chambers in the back are full. i think this has helped me with my co2 levels. i also ditched the bioballs and replaced them with 2 liters of ceramic rings.

jd


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

marufovega said:


> manda99
> 
> is this tank a 14 gallon biocube? i'm assuming that it is. i also have one of these all-in-one setups. one problem with this kit; however, is the sump filter which has the water pour over bioballs in the filter. this degasses alot of co2 and it may be keeping you from getting appropriate co2 levels during the day. what i did to fix this is just fill the tank way past the fill line mark such that all 3 chambers in the back are full. i think this has helped me with my co2 levels. i also ditched the bioballs and replaced them with 2 liters of ceramic rings.
> 
> jd


Yes, it's the Biocube. I've got it filled above the maximum, but allowing a little bit of trickle (most of the bio-balls are totally submerged - water falls maybe 1/2 inch). Before I filled it up higher, my drop checker would go back to blue at night, but now it's staying green at night. I like leaving a little bit of trickle because I'm overly paranoid about not oxygenating the water enough.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

yeah, i was worried about that too. but gradually i went ahead and filled it all the way up. with the tank full, there is still slight turbulence where the water flows between chambers 1 and 2. the filter media is totally submerged. i haven't noticed any problem with my fish(10 cardinal tetras, 3 sae's, 6 amanos). my plan was to run an airstone at night in chamber 1 if there was any problem with the fish, but there hasn't been so far.

interesting that you got algae after adding the second lamp. that's when i got it too. nothing would get rid of it, and i tried everything over about 2 months(except algicide). the blackout wiped out the hair algae. i also reduced the lights to 1.7 wpg for 6hrs/day for an additional week, then increased to 8hrs/day for a week, then added a 3hr midday burst at 3.4 wpg. now i see a few remnants of the hair algae trying to make a comeback, but it's not gaining ground. i haven't had to manually remove any since the blackout. 

jd


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Hm.

So I cut a light and increased the CO2 and increased the circulation. 

Came home to find most of fish at the surface, my loaches nowhere to be found, and my nerite snails have crawled out of the water.

I just turned my air stone one. Not quite sure what else to do. The fish don't really seem distressed or obviously gasping - just hanging out at the surface. It's all my rasboras and zebra danios. The tetras are still swimming around normally.

Edited to add: We're trying to decide if the fish just like being on top because of the increased current up there?


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

How much did you increase the CO2? If your fish are doing the high dive off your tank, might want to cut it down a bit. Gradual change is what you're going for here.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the surface has more O2, less CO2, since its closer to where the gas exchange happens. going to the surface is what the fish do when they dont have to gasp yet. its ok for them (not life threatening and only mildly stressful), but obviously not optimal.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Got home yesterday about 10 minutes before the end of my photoperiod and found one of my Rasboras half sucked into the filter intake because he apparently was too weak to swim out. I swished him away and he swam a few inches and just stuck unmovingly in some java moss. I assumed he'd be dead by this morning, but he seemed to have recovered overnight. I'm assuming this is CO2 overload? I know it's not O2 shortage because I've had an airstone running 24/7 for the last two days and my filter is still wet/dry with a bit of trickle for oxygenation. My drop checker was yellow when I got home last night. I turned the CO2 down slightly, but it was too late in the photoperiod to know if that would help for today. I hope there are no stressed fish when I get home.

The algae is looking kinda pathetic though, so I guess it's started it's death cycle thanks to the downgraded lighting. I'm not sure where to go with this now, however. Full lights and CO2 at least had growing and thriving plants and non-stressed fish - but thriving algae as well. Now I've got half lights, crazy CO2, upset fish, and slow-growing plants.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

manda99

maybe rasboras are more sensitive to high co2 than tetras, i don't know. in general, if you have less light, you don't need to add as much co2. once the drop checker is yellow it doesn't change any more even if more co2 is added. your co2 may be getting real high. i run mine at almost yellow(with 4dkh water) and my cardinal tetras and sae's don't seem to mind at all. i don't have an airstone and my 14g biocube is filled to the brim with water. also, if your plants are pearling well, you probably don't need to add air while the lights are on. your plants should be making plenty of o2(of course, it depends on how heavily planted your tank is). running the airstone during the day degasses co2. maybe you should turn your co2 down a bit.

what kind of co2 setup do you have?

jd


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

marufovega said:


> manda99
> 
> maybe rasboras are more sensitive to high co2 than tetras, i don't know. in general, if you have less light, you don't need to add as much co2. once the drop checker is yellow it doesn't change any more even if more co2 is added. your co2 may be getting real high. i run mine at almost yellow(with 4dkh water) and my cardinal tetras and sae's don't seem to mind at all. i don't have an airstone and my 14g biocube is filled to the brim with water. also, if your plants are pearling well, you probably don't need to add air while the lights are on. your plants should be making plenty of o2(of course, it depends on how heavily planted your tank is). running the airstone during the day degasses co2. maybe you should turn your co2 down a bit.
> 
> ...


Well, I wasn't running the air stone before I turned the lights down and the CO2 up and the fish started acting stressed. My O2 seemed to be fine without it before this whole algae problem started and I started making changes to combat it. My plants were pearling like crazy and now they aren't. My tank is pretty heavily planted. I did just prune it down a lot though trying to remove some of the algae-infested leaves and such. I was told on the previous pages to cut my lights and raise my CO2 though, so I did. Clearly, I'm having problems finding balance in all this.

I've got pressurized Co2 on a timer and a glass diffuser. It comes on 30 minutes before my lights and goes off 30 minutes before the lights go off.


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## marufovega (Jun 29, 2008)

hair algae is a pita!! sounds like you're aware of this. 

jd


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

Hang in there. There's a fine line called "balance" you'll have to discover for yourself. It became very apparent to me when I started seeing (physically) other people's tanks for myself, that there's a huge discrepancy between how 'enough' on a forum is taken and what it really meant to the owner. You'll find it...sounds like you're almost there to me. Don't forget, you can always offset excess CO2 via aerating the tank (think surface ripple and/or airstone).

The most difficult part about problems, particularly nasty algae problems, is that it takes so long to fix what broke in a matter of days or even hours. But as your progress, you get used to it; it's only a psychological hinderance that tests your patience. The most rewarding experience is overcoming the problem and watching your plants grow back in incredible fashion.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, I just got my Gh and Kh tests in the mail so I can figure out my CO2 levels. My KH is 10 and my GH was 17. 17 isn't even possible probably, so I'm throwing that result out. pH is 6.4. So that puts my aquarium into fishy death camp levels, right? *sigh*. 

I turned on my second light for the rest of my photoperiod to get the plants pearling and perk up the fishies. Also, turned the CO2 back down. Blah. My frustration is getting the best of me at this point. Maybe I should just embrace algae as a beautiful plant in it's own right? Only kinda kidding.

ETA: And I apparently have zero nitrates? How is that even possible??


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## Avalon (Aug 14, 2004)

You really don't even need GH & KH test kits. You don't need the CO2 chart either. It might be handy to know what your KH level is, but the chart doesn't work. I would not let your pH get above 6.4. If your KH level is 10 dKH, then you'll need to be diligent about your CO2. You're in the upper range of 'moderately easy to get enough CO2 in the tank.' Always inject as much CO2 into your tank as healthy to your inhabitants. The rest is circulation. From there, all you need is enough light (moderate is ok), and a whole lot of patience. The more you adjust your light and CO2, the further away you steer from stability and ultimately your goal.

Select the light, set the CO2, and leave it the hell alone for a couple of weeks. And get your hands out of the tank! You'll know when something's wrong after some time...but you'll never know if you've done anything right if you don't stop messing with things!


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Okay, I'm just going to not think about this all day tomorrow and worry about it again on Saturday. I swear. :thumbsup:


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, after my last post, I turned both lights back on and upped my dosing and decided to just worry about the plants and less about the algae. And, strangely, it seems to be working.

Although, I think I found potentially a major source of the algae and poor circulation. My filter pump has been regularly clogging with snails (I hate those stupid snails sooooooooo much). I usually have to rinse it and toothbrush it with every water change to get the flow going back full strength again. Well, I did my water change yesterday and the flow was practically non-existent. Beat and scrubbed the snails out of the pump and it still won't move water. It's trying, but nothing's moving. So, that pump is dead. Only had it for two months or so. :icon_roll I put the stock pump that came with the Biocube back in there and now it's blowing the heck out of everything in the tank, but at least the water is circulating again.


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## KDahlin (Mar 12, 2007)

FYI, if you're buying Seachem potassium, phosphorus and nitrogen, you can save some money by making up these solutions from dry. Left C put the recipes for these here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ng/45119-seachem-dosing-calculator-chart.html
under Using – Mixing Dry Chemicals for Seachem’s Dosing


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Good read and advice in this thread. 

I was wondering how its going now? any update?


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

SpeedEuphoria said:


> Good read and advice in this thread.
> 
> I was wondering how its going now? any update?


Well, I was on vacation for 8 days and got back yesterday. My primary algae issue is now BBA. The other types seem to be at least in remission, but the BBA took my vacation as an opportunity to strike back. It's everywhere.  

I haven't done a water change or trim since I got back because I'm trying to figure out what to do. The tank is a jungle at the moment and needs a drastic trimming.


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

Manda99 said:


> Well, I was on vacation for 8 days and got back yesterday. My primary algae issue is now BBA. The other types seem to be at least in remission, but the BBA took my vacation as an opportunity to strike back. It's everywhere.
> 
> I haven't done a water change or trim since I got back because I'm trying to figure out what to do. The tank is a jungle at the moment and needs a drastic trimming.


Do what I did:

-Bump up CO2 super high, not high to suffocate your fish, but almost. 
-Add a few SAEs
-Manually remove those that you can.

I forgot whether you use pressurized or not...guess I'll read back a little. You can add excel to help as well.

EDIT

K, you do. Then bumping up your CO2 won't be hard. Make sure you have good flow in your tank and bump it up till your fish are gasping and then lower it down gradually till they stop.

This help kill my BBA really fast...

Avalon definately knows what he's talking about, you just have to be patient after you've done this. Give it a week or so.

Algae is a big PITA lol.


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, in my ongoing saga of knee-jerk overreactions and frustrations... last night, I did my water change and pulled out a good deal of the plants. I had a lovely driftwood tree wrapped in java moss, but it was so inundated with BBA that there was no way I could just trim it off. So I pulled the whole thing out and then just sorta went crazy from there. I trimmed off a good deal of my java fern leaves (most were covered in algae), pulled a bunch of dwarf sag (OMG, that's stuff a pain to pull out), and mowed my HM lawn down to stubs. My poor Crypt is now a shell of it's former self. I trimmed all the Ludwigia and replanted it in shorter clumps filling in where the driftwood used to be. My tank kinda looks like crap now, but a well filled in tank covered in BBA didn't look much better.

Oh, and I ordered dry ferts. Going to give EI a try. 

(On a positive note, my ADA Mini-L looks awesome and survived vacation beautifully, LOL)


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## Manda99 (Apr 30, 2008)

The BBA that remains in my tank is all turning purple and red now... that's a good sign, right??


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

Yes, purple and red BBA is a good sign. You can spot treat with Excel. Use a medicine dropper. I like the ones for baby medicines. They have ML measurements on them. You can use the recommended original dose every day. Squirt it directly on the places where you see the BBA. Eventually make it around to every area in your tank. You can turn off the filter for about 5 0 10 min. if you want to get the full effect. One dose on a plant will usually kill the BBA. Sounds like you are doing the preventative already. Excel has a 24 hr life so that's why you can do this everyday. It will die and eventually fall off of your plants. You can also get Amano shrimp which will eat it all up!


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## Tim S (Mar 18, 2007)

I've done everything but spot treated so far. 75 gallon with 216w of T5 lights, and presurized co2. I've reduced my lighting period to 6.5 hours, bought more new plants, OD with excel, increased flow and my co2 is going at about 6bps if not faster. Not only has my BBA not been touched but now its spreading. I dont want to manually remove/trim, then all of my microsword will be gone, but I will if need be. So, what is causing this stuff to spread and stay put?


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Tim, instead of decreasing your lighting period try decreasing your wpg and spot treat with Excel.


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## Tim S (Mar 18, 2007)

True I can do that but I eventually want to be able to run all the lights, thats why I got it to begin with. So I could do that to get everything under control for now but in the end I want to increase the light again. Will I be able to do that? I'm going to be using a reactor soon as well to get more co2 into the tank but I figured in the begining 3bps through a powerhead should be enough, I guess not.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

I just got some Excel, I had a couple small spots of BBA and I turned of the filter spot dosed 2x the daily dose on it, waited 10mins then turned the filter back on and the next day it was white and some red.

Tim you prob will be able to slowly work back up to the full lighting level as long as your CO2 and ferts are up to the task.

Actually I'm battling some algae in my newb tank, at 1st I just limited the light period. Currently I am bringing the period back up to 8hrs and I reduced the intensity instead, along w/ using the excel


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## Tim S (Mar 18, 2007)

I turned off 2 lights for now. I still have my co2 blasting away, and instead of spot treating I tore out the effected plants and gave them a small bath for 5 minutes in excel...I didnt have enough to spot treat. So now I have a pinkish/purpleish looking algae on the plants. That will have to do until pay day this week. Then onto a split co2 setup, diffuser and reactor setup.


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