# should i dose trace ferts in a low tech tank?



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

i was wondering if it was necessary to dose trace elements(csm+b) if a tank is low tech, minimal water changes? if so, how much and how often?


----------



## Spiritwind (Feb 2, 2008)

Do you notice plant growth? 64 watts is very very low. I saw you have more lights available though. If your plants are growing they will need the nutrients. Might just dose as if you had a 10 gallon tank though. So many other variable to consider. Such as, how many plants and what types. What do you consider minimal water changes, because traces can come from the fresh water from changes. Again more csm+b the fewer water changes. I still dont know how potassium gets into the aquarium system without external fertilization so I would add that always.


----------



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

yeah im discussing on another thread about increasing my lighting a bit. I am doing very few water changes or none since it is low tech. I will start adding csm+b but how much and how often for a 100 gallon tank and 65 gallon?


----------



## Spiritwind (Feb 2, 2008)

Mixing CSM+B in 1tbsp per 250ml of water makes it roughly equal to flourish, and they recommend 5ml once or twice a week for every 60 gallons. Was looking over my notes on this but I made my mix of csm+b weaker so I wouldnt have to think how much to add. If someone could confirm this is the proper concentration for CSM+B.

This is very light dosage compared to the EI method that I believe is one of the most popular here. Since I still dont know what you mean by minimal water changes. You want to keep lower dosages so you dont get too high concentrations of fertilizers. The amounts added with EI are safe because of the huge water changes so you will never have more than twice your weekly dosage in the tank. 

Are you also considering adding some Potassium? Thats all I add to my lower tech tank along with the CSM+B. Works well for me, get plenty of nitrates from the fish food and waste.


----------



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok, what ive learned from this forum is that a low tech tank with no co2 should have minimal to no water changes. The reasoning behind this is that with water changes, it decreases the co2 existing in the water and it also takes the nutrients in the water produced from fish waste and food. So Im just thinking of adding trace elements that cant be obtained from the fish or the food.


----------



## Spiritwind (Feb 2, 2008)

Water changes do not decrease CO2. I will go out on a limb to say when your 10 angelfish become adults, your nitrates will go through the roof if you dont do water changes. I have still been trying to find balance in my tanks, but the nitrates still are going up too high. Without water changes my tank would become toxic with nitrates in short order. Still I dont know how minimal your changes are but I would suggest 10-25% per week, you can go higher or lower depending on how your nitrates increase. You also could go with the EI dosing and do the 50% water changes per week, then you wouldnt have to think as much about over dosaging. There would be a better and stable balance this way. 

As for CO2 again, I dont use it either. CO2 is exchanged at the water surface and is maintained at some 2-3ppm roughly. Water changes are not going to affect that negatively. The water you are putting in will likely have the same CO2 levels. 

If you want to have a tank without changing water, there are ways to do it, I am just not familiar with them. http://theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method this will give you some information and ideas.


----------



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

so after reading the link provided, the only thing that doesnt go along with the no water change method is the fact that my fish load is more than what is recommended right? But even with this amount of fish(which i plan on selling some of them) i can still get by with a water change every 2-3 wks right?


----------



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

also if i have low kh and gh in my tank, should i dose something to increase it? Like:http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalog/ctl3684/cp18581/si1380881/cl1/red_sea_gh__kh_plus100_gr?&query=gh&queryType=0&offset=


----------



## Spiritwind (Feb 2, 2008)

I think nitrate tests will help you determine how often to change water, under 20 ppm would be nice, 40 maximum. Lots of plants and low fish load help keep this down. As for the kh and gh, how low is it? It has to be really really low for it to be an issue. Keeping up with water changes will likely give you all you need.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It's going to take trial and error to find the right balance. Every tank is different. Keep a journal and this will help you identify patterns.

I'm personally dosing Flourish Comprehensive for trace on my low light 90gal. I'm starting with 1 capful a week. It's still too soon for me to tell if this is too much or little ATM though...


----------



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

so besides testing, how can you tell if the nitrates are too high?


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

RachPreach said:


> so besides testing, how can you tell if the nitrates are too high?


You cannot, but one contributing factor to Blue Green Algae is very low or zero nitrates. Also, keep in mind that you need to calibrate your nitrate test kit to ensure that it is accurate.  Rex Grigg's site has a step by step on how to do this. 

keep in mind that even if your nitrate test kit is accurate, it will be difficult to gauge the precise amount as your nitrate levels will likely fluctuate from day to day depending on how densely planted your tank is, whether you inject c02 or not, whether you dose excel or not, your stocking levels, how much and how often you feed your fish, how much and how frequently you change your water, and what type of plants you have in your tank. Some floating plants can be real nitrate sponges.

As far as dosing ferts in a low light tank that can be tricky, especially if you don't do water changes. With a high light, hight tech c02 tank, you need not worry of any excess buildup of ferts as 50% weekly water changes with something like EI dosing pretty much assures that you will not end up with long term excess buildups that could harm your fish/shrimp. And given that a high tech tank will have c02 injection and high lighting, nutrient uptake by the plants will be higher.

The opposite is true for a low light tank. I dose a pinch/dash of nitrates, potassium, phosphates, nitrates, magnesium and calcium with every water change. But then I do weekly water changes on my low tech tanks and they are undestocked. Plus I dose excel daily and double with every water change which pretty well gives me some more wiggle room by allowing more ferts to be used up by plants.

I would suggest treading very carefully if you decide to dose ferts on a low light, lightly(even heavily) planted low tech, non-c02 tank where you plan to fully stock the tank and not do water changes for weeks on in. Personally if I planned on setting up a fully stocked low tech, low light tank, with minimal water changes, and feeding of fish frequently, I would dose based on any observations or indications of possible nutrient deficiencies, such as yellowing of leaves, otherwise, I would not dose any ferts.


----------



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok, i dont really have any deficiencies to date. Im going to be moving my tanks to a new house so ill let them run for a while and see waht happens. Yall are so knowledgable on here! thanks so much!


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

RachPreach said:


> ok, i dont really have any deficiencies to date. Im going to be moving my tanks to a new house so ill let them run for a while and see waht happens. Yall are so knowledgable on here! thanks so much!


Here is an excellent chart re:aquarium plant deficiency symptoms. You might find it useful should the time come.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm


----------



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

yeah ive used that before. Ill keep that book marked. thanks.


----------

