# Computer controlled Nano - Electronics (3/14/10)



## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

So I decided I really wanted a nano tank for my desk at work, and I figured I might as well make it computer controlled. Here's the list of features:

Definite:

3G Mr. Aqua rimless bowfront (don't have that yet)
TEC cooler/heater
water temperature sensor
DIY filter/pump
ambient temperature sensor
dimmable LED lighting w/color control
Maybe:

wireless
LED UV sterilization
after-heater temp sensing
turbidity measurement

Here's some of the materials I'll be starting with (Click for bigger pics)


The pump, scavenged from a cheapo desktop fountain. It's about 1" diameter.


Some acrylic, HDPE and aluminum for the filter case.


The peltier cooler (TEC). I picked this up from an electronics surplus place years ago because it looked cool. Finally a use for it...



The heatsink. When using the TEC as a cooler, you really need a good heatsink for the warm side of the cooler. .


So far I've managed to mill the case out of plastic (3.5" x 3.5" x 1"). The pump will fit inside and there will be an acrylic lid on one side to see what's going on, and the other side will be aluminum, heated/cooled by the TEC.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

A little more progress.


The aluminum cover. I think I'm going to cover the outside of this with a sheet of styrene to insulate it. Hard to get a sense of scale, but the screws are all 1" apart. The rest of the pics aren't this out of focus...


The acrylic cover.



With the heatsink mounted on the aluminum cover.


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## SamH (Jul 17, 2009)

Wow! That's an awesome idea. Will be keeping an eye out for this thread. Good luck!


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## BMueller777 (Feb 5, 2008)

Nice, what's going to be controlled via computer?


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

A microprocessor will control the following: pump speed, temperature, lighting, low water alarm, and UV sterilization as well as logging ambient temp and turbidity. Connecting to a PC will allow me to read the sensors and logs and adjust setpoints for the controls. I plan to have 24 hourly settings for everything so that I can have, for instance, orangish light in the morning, brighter bluish light mid-day with a slightly higher temp, and blue light with a lower temp and UV sterilization at night. I don't know if I'll need all of that flexibility, but it's the gadgets that make it fun for me.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

subscribed. This is going to be really cool to see come together.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

throw in a ph sensor. I'm thinking about doing it to my 10G. 
Which microprocessor are you using? the aduino is pretty cheap and powerful.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

mistergreen said:


> throw in a ph sensor. I'm thinking about doing it to my 10G.
> Which microprocessor are you using? the aduino is pretty cheap and powerful.


I'd love to put in a ph sensor, but I have yet to find a decent diy probe and the commercial probes are too big and outside the budget. If you know of any way to build a small, cheap sensor I'd be happy to hear about it.

I will probably be using an ATMega128. I have one of the USB AVR modules (a Bumble-B) but I haven't learned the USB api or programming toolchain yet. It would be easier to stick with what I know.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

here are some cheap thermo sensors
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?c=82

I love sparkfun.
There are some radiation sensors, just in case.

no cheap pH sensors though.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

More progress:


The styrene "sweater" on the outside of the aluminum cover with a hole cut for the TEC. This should insulate the heat/cold from the air a bit. The black fittings along the top used to be an air line tee, that I sliced into thirds and glued into tight-fitting holes. I hope to use air line for the intake and exhaust.


The pump mounted in the frame. The white tube in the upper left is to direct the incoming water towards the aluminum for more efficient heat transfer. The intake for the pump is on the right end, just below the exhaust tube. I plan to put something inside to use as filter material, possibly the plastic-based pillow stuffing? I am assuming I want to stay away from anything organic, like wool.

My next action will be to close everything up and see what kind of GPH I can get from this thing. Is there a ratio I should be looking for, like the pump should turn over the entire tank 3 a minimum of 3 times every hour?

On a side note; I'm way too impatient to be using cheapo aquarium-safe silicone (I found Loctite brand at the Lowes down the street). Is there anything that cures faster?


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

Since I'm not using the silicone for any mechanical , I just waited a couple hours and started testing. No leaks yet.

3.3V - 4.6 GPH
5V - 7.4 GPH

Is 7.4 GPH OK for a 3 gallon tank?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

That isn't much. Give it a try, but I think you'll find you want somewhere around 15gph.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

So plan for 5X turnover? Does that mean maybe this would be better for a 1.5G tank? I was thinking the 3G might be a bit too large anyway.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

mistergreen said:


> here are some cheap thermo sensors
> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?c=82
> 
> I love sparkfun.
> ...


Yes, I'm an avid fan and customer of Sparkfun also. Hmmm, I bet I could point this color sensor at a DIY drop checker and control some CO2...

On the build side, I did some testing and found I could heat 400mL from 62 F to 78 F in 20 minutes, but 20 minutes of cooling only got me from 78 F down to 74 F. Not good enough. Prototype 1 down. Ah, well, the pump was too noisy anyway, so I am designing a new pump from scratch, probably based on a brushless DC control scheme. More info after the weekend maybe...


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

I wonder if you could gut one of those tiny powerheads Hagen elite. May still be too big for what you are trying to do.


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## BMueller777 (Feb 5, 2008)

Robotguy said:


> A microprocessor will control the following: pump speed, temperature, lighting, low water alarm, and UV sterilization as well as logging ambient temp and turbidity. Connecting to a PC will allow me to read the sensors and logs and adjust setpoints for the controls. I plan to have 24 hourly settings for everything so that I can have, for instance, orangish light in the morning, brighter bluish light mid-day with a slightly higher temp, and blue light with a lower temp and UV sterilization at night. I don't know if I'll need all of that flexibility, but it's the gadgets that make it fun for me.



That is awesome ahaha


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Are you using bluetooth for wireless connection? That would be cool.... Wires are so 2009.

and you can use LED for lights. The heat output from that would be minimal so controlling tank temperature would be easy. And as for pumps, you can find a cheapo desktop pump for little fountains at hobby stores or petsmart.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

mistergreen said:


> Are you using bluetooth for wireless connection? That would be cool.... Wires are so 2009.
> 
> and you can use LED for lights. The heat output from that would be minimal so controlling tank temperature would be easy. And as for pumps, you can find a cheapo desktop pump for little fountains at hobby stores or petsmart.


If I go wireless, it will be this module. I just wrote control firmware for it last month, and I have several laying around.

I plan to get some white LEDs from Deal Extreme (maybe these 10W!) and throw in a few low power RGB LEDs to vary the color a bit.

The pump shown a few posts back was scavenged from a desktop fountain, but it was too slow at 3.3V and way too noisy at 5V. Time for a custom solution. I just finished writing the G-Code for the 1.7" diameter pump impeller:

Maybe I'll get a chance to cut one tomorrow night. I found a decent motor in my "motors" bin in the garage. Nice and quiet, with decent torque. I am planning a magnetic clutch drive so I don't have to fiddle with any rotating seals.

I'm also thinking, as long as I'm at it, I might as well build the tank, too. I'll pick up some glass once I get the pump & TEC figured out.


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## jake1337 (Jan 9, 2010)

More pics please, this is sweet. Cool idea : )


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

*Computer Controlled Nano - Pics of the cooler*



jake1337 said:


> More pics please, this is sweet. Cool idea : )



Thanks!

Here's an update.

I had a change of plans and decided to concentrate on the cooler for now and buy the pump. I have a couple on the way, hopefully they will be here Monday.

Almost all water blocks used for CPU cooling are copper (since the thermal conductivity of copper is twice that of aluminum) but I know that copper is bad for fish, so I milled a channel in a small piece of aluminum and sealed it against a piece of acrylic with some silicone. I also made my own airline fittings that could thread into the acrylic:


Then bolted on the TEC, a heastsink and a fan:


For testing, I used the little fountain pump to push water through the block, while I measured the temp of the 500mL reservoir at 5 minute intervals:



This shows that I can get at least 10 degrees below ambient with this setup, which should let me keep a small tank safe in the office when temperatures hit around 90-95F.

I have two really nice Gamoto motor controllers (the guy who makes them is a friend of mine) that I will use to drive the pump and TEC.

I plan to keep triops (and plants) in the tank. Since the life cycle of the triops is short (20-40 days), and the gravel needs to be dried between each generation, I am thinking of building a basket that holds the gravel and plants. Then I can lift that out of the tank when it's time to swap substrate.


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## trackhazard (Aug 24, 2006)

This is an interesting build. 

Do you have actual tank water running through that aluminum block? If so, I am unsure if you want to do that.



> *What are the environmental effects of aluminum in water?*
> 
> Aluminum may negatively affect terrestrial and aquatic life in different ways. Regular aluminum concentrations in groundwater are about 0.4 ppm, because it is present in soils as water insoluble hydroxide. At pH values below 4.5 solubility rapidly increases, causing aluminum concentrations to rise above 5 ppm. This may also occur at very high pH values.
> 
> ...


-Charlie


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

for this effort why nano?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

trackhazard said:


> This is an interesting build.
> 
> Do you have actual tank water running through that aluminum block? If so, I am unsure if you want to do that.
> -Charlie


most likely his pH isn't going below 6, so it's not a problem.



ikuzo said:


> for this effort why nano?


i would imagine it's cheaper and easier. Imagine the size of the cooler for a 75G.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

ikuzo said:


> for this effort why nano?


I think the better question is "why not?" This is a hobby, and the more effort, the better if you ask me  
Also, a lot of the aspects that the OP wants to solve here are already solved in commercially available options for larger tanks... 

I enjoy watching this thread quite a bit...


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

*trackhazard*: Yes the water is running through the aluminum, but I think that as long as the pH levels stay around 7, I should be OK. Also, I am only putting triops and plants in it, so at least I wouldn't be killin' any fish.

*ikuzo*: *mistergreen* and *regloh* pretty much covered it, plus I like small (take a look at my robots to see proof). Also, this is for my desk at work, so smaller is better.

Update, no pics tonight, sorry...

1. The pumps showed up today. The small one (6-12V dc brush motor) is really loud, so fail on that one. The larger one (6-12V brushless) is really quiet so I'll probably use that one. It pulls 800mA @12VDC and pumps 6.5 Liters per minute. Whoosh! Since it's brushless, I won't be able to vary the speed with a standard motor controller, but I'm sure I can figure something out. Pulling the water through the water block will slow things down quite a bit, and I can install another valve, but I hope it doesn't overheat if the throughput is too low.

2. I picked up a Triops kit at the local hobby store Saturday. I only put about 8 eggs in the container, and I now have 2 teeny(!) triops swimming around. I also ordered a couple of refill kits of eggs (in "test tubes", cool) in case I kill a bunch before I figure it all out.

3. I found glass at HD and grabbed 3 sheets of 12" X 10" and a glass cutter. I broke one sheet (whoops) but cutting the other two went well, so I will be building the tank hopefully tomorrow. It should be 10" wide by 5" deep by 6" tall


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

*(Thermal Images*

Now I'm really geeking out!

Heating:


















And cooling:


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

*Thats really neat. Im starting to think Robotguy really is a robot.*


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## AkCrimson (Dec 17, 2009)

WOW. This is fantastic!!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Whoa! you have a thermal camera!

Hey, can you do us a favor and shoot a thermal of a bigger tank?
I'd like to see how heat is distributed throughout the tank.


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## Solid (Jul 19, 2009)

I have one of those Peltier coolers on my computer CPU, I'm thinking maybe during the summer ill take it out and put it on my 84 gallon aquarium. HAHA! Just kidding, but this is some seriously cool DIY stuff!!


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

mistergreen said:


> Whoa! you have a thermal camera!
> 
> Hey, can you do us a favor and shoot a thermal of a bigger tank?
> I'd like to see how heat is distributed throughout the tank.


I did point it at my 10G last night, but unfortunately glass is opaque to IR, so it was a uniform blue with a hot spot at the top of the lights.

Even the 1/4" acrylic in the pics of the cooler is opaque, so we are really just seeing where the heat has soaked through from the water block.


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## trackhazard (Aug 24, 2006)

I think you've just won the internet with those thermal pics. Congrats!

Set up the tank already!

-Charlie


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

Dude, I want your job... you have really nice tech-toys to play with


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## guerdonian (Jan 14, 2010)

Those images are awesome!


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

A little lunchtime searching to verify the 3/32" glass will be OK:
http://www.theaquatools.com/building-your-aquarium

According to this 3/32" (2.4mm) should give me a safety factor of about 5X.


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## Triv (Jan 10, 2010)

Just for your future information, there is a calculator posted to this site. It's not very popular due to teh lack of self built tanks but heres a link.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/99418-rivermuds-glass-acrylic-thickness-calculator-guide.html


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

Regloh said:


> Dude, I want your job... you have really nice tech-toys to play with


My last semester in college I took a class called "Lifelong developments in Engineering" that discussed career development for engineers. We spent a bit of time discussing the relative merits of entrepreneur vs. working for a company. On our midterm we had a question that said something to the effect of "Do you want to be an entrepreneur? Why or why not?" and my response was that I got into EE to play with the really cool toys (test equipment, large scale systems, rockets, missiles, lasers, etc) and those either weren't affordable or feasible for small startups ("Guided Missiles 'R Us"?).

I got full credit for the question and a note that said "Hmm, never thought of it like that." Now I help design deep sea remote operated vehicles for a living. Wheee! (No, really. It's pretty darn fun when I stop to think about it)


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

Another quick update (gotta keep up the momentum or I'll see something shiny and get distracted):

Before:


After:


Someone please tell me that there's a decent way to clean up all of the extra silicone! From all of the tutorials I read, I kinda got the impression that too much was way better than not enough, but no one mentioned having silicone all over the glass when they were done.

Finally, a few pics of the future inhabitants:

The big brown blob on the right is the corner of a tea bag (it has the infusoria in it)


Like I'd want to eat THAT!


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Robotguy said:


> Hmmm, I bet I could point this color sensor at a DIY drop checker and control some CO2..


It would be fun tuning that PID loop. 

Great stuff, Robotguy!


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## chuukus (Jun 17, 2008)

Verry creative! This just showes how many different ways you can come at this hobby from.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Great stuff, have you looked online about the larger triops species? There are some really cool ones that are a bit easier to see. 

Toys are nice too, it seems like half the members here are engineers of some sort lol...

-Andrew


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

dude, you're sick... and my hero...lol


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

DarkCobra said:


> It would be fun tuning that PID loop.


Not to mention all the Triops I'll probably kill in the process. "Whoops, wrong Ki. pH is at 4.2!"

Small update; Lunchtime was spent with several razor blades, now the seams on the tank look a bit better. Next time I'll mask with tape...


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

*Link heavy brainstorming*

So, I'm doing a little brainstorming about what to sense/control and am open for suggestions. Here's my list of possibilities (Some may not be practical):

CONTROL - Heater/cooler (Peltier)
SENSE - Tank temp (Sensor@filter input)
SENSE - Heater/cooler temp (Sensor@filter output)
SENSE - Ambient temp (Sensor in air)


CONTROL - Lighting (Intensity & Color)
SENSE - Turbidity (Photointerrupter@filter input)
SENSE - Light level/color (Color sensor@substrate)


CONTROL - CO2 valve
SENSE - Bubble count rate (Photointerrupter & bubble counter)


SENSE - Water level (capacitive?)
SENSE - pH (Color sensor & drop checker)
SENSE - Kh (how?)
SENSE - Ammonia (how?)
SENSE - Nitrate (how?)
SENSE - Nitrite (how?)


CONTROL - Pump on/off
SENSE - Filter pressure (determine when to clean)


SENSE - Time of day (internal clock for timing lights, etc)
CONTROL - Automatic feeder


SENSE - Webcam
COMM - Serial Port (req. for programming the processor)
COMM - Wireless (Either wifi or Nordic. I already have both)
COMM - Color LCD to report status. (I have one of these waiting for a project to call home)


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Robotguy said:


> [*]CONTROL - Lighting (Intensity & Color)


It would be cool if you can make the led dimmable to simulate the day's amount of light. It might be good for the plants too. You can wait until the CO2 levels are at optimal ppm and then let the light go at full blast. 

I read somewhere you can write a program to cycle the frequency of the current to affect the light intensity.



Robotguy said:


> [*]SENSE - Kh (how?)
> [*]SENSE - Ammonia (how?)
> [*]SENSE - Nitrate (how?)
> [*]SENSE - Nitrite (how?)


These sensors are too big and expensive so I wouldn't worry about it.

Have you worked out an automated fertilization method?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Robotguy said:


> So, I'm doing a little brainstorming about what to sense/control and am open for suggestions. Here's my list of possibilities (Some may not be practical):


Crikey... that's pretty complete!

All I can add to that are really crazy ideas:

Add a thin client, running Linux or stripped-down Windows 2000. Shift wireless interface to the client. Get a webcam, or a USB/PCI video capture card and a camera - may I suggest a Sony camera block, color SuperHAD CCD with serial-controllable auto/manual focus, zoom, switchable IR filter, etc. Run a program providing wireless video streaming, and passthrough of data to the microcontroller via USB or RS-232. Add IR illumination and a couple of servos to aim the camera.

Since there's a computer and this is a small tank, you could make an LCD screen your aquarium backdrop. Use any image you want. I'd have to use the video for 60's-style feedback tunnels at least once.  Display status directly in the aquarium.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

Took a trip to TAP Plastics today to get some acrylic tubing and cement. The guys there were awesome, and took the time to find an instructional pamphlet for me and give me a demo on how to use the cement. They even threw in some scrap pieces to practice on! 

I took a few minutes this evening to make my first attempt at a [strike]lilly[/strike] [strike]daffodil[/strike] daffy pipe:


I also figured I'd take a shot of the tank, currently serving as a drwarf hairgrass refuge and Triops egg hatchery:

The red smudge is pointing to one of the Triops eggs. It's easier to see if you click through to the full size image.

And last but not least, a couple pics of one of the current generation Triops:

They are about 3/4" long now, and getting bigger everyday (literally!)


Maybe I should name this one Maria?


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

If you click the thumbnails, you will be directed to much larger images (200-300k). Just a warning.

Slowly making progress:

My pipeware. Been having a lot of fun playing with the acrylic tubes. I will probably build a new set because these aren't sized correctly and don't have angles in the right places. 


Here is an inline diffuser I'm working on. We'll see how it works, I'm not sure if it's water-tight yet.


Current prototype of the pump/filter, with some biological filter media. This one I hacked together with silicone, so I'll probably tear it apart and build another one with the acrylic cement.


Here's a size comparison of the pump/filter with the tank.


Lastly, here's a crude drawing of my concept. The tank will fit on the shelf, and all of the equipment and electronics will fit behind it.


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## Mowze (May 11, 2009)

Are you doing anything with water level control, auto top ups and dosing to control ferts, KH, GH, pH?

Not overly keen on the filter media it looks a bit chunky and stands out a little much for the style of the tank, couldnt you go for something a little finer with a higher surface area or maybe even turn it into a mini fluidised filter!

Love the idea about the camera feeds and the screen too!

Also are you going to record the running water perameters over the course of the aquarium cycle? It would be pretty interesting to see some pretty graphs showing fluctuations like pH, DO, CO2, temperature, nitrogenous compounds both diournally and throughout the entire life combined with pictures of the tank itself coresponding to that points on the graph maybe even animated in some way!


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

Q&A first:



A Hill said:


> Great stuff, have you looked online about the larger triops species? There are some really cool ones that are a bit easier to see.


Thanks! I have seen Triops Granarias eggs on ebay, but I actually think those will be too big for the tank. After a few generations of the standard Triops Longicaudatus, I may experiment a bit.



mistergreen said:


> It would be cool if you can make the led dimmable to simulate the day's amount of light. It might be good for the plants too. You can wait until the CO2 levels are at optimal ppm and then let the light go at full blast.
> 
> Have you worked out an automated fertilization method?


Good call. I do plan to modulate both the intensity and color of the lights. Maybe a nice light orange at dawn, through a bright cool white around noon and fading into a red sunset.

I am considering a teeny stepper motor that pushes the plunger on a small syringe and drips liquid fertilizer. I have absolutely no experience with ferts yet, so any suggestions would be great.



DarkCobra said:


> All I can add to that are really crazy ideas:


Those are all great ideas and they are now on the list for Mark II! 



Mowze said:


> Are you doing anything with water level control, auto top ups and dosing to control ferts, KH, GH, pH?
> 
> filter media ... looks a bit chunky
> 
> ...


Just planning a "low water" alarm ATM to remind me to do WC. I love the idea of auto top-up, but I am planning to put this on my desk at work, so I want to keep it self contained. Maybe when I build Mark II for home.

The filter media was an impulse buy. I may chop it into smaller pieces. I had never heard of a fluidized filter. Sounds interesting, I may go that way.

The plans are to log all sensor input and control outputs, probably every minute (memory is cheap). I plan to upload the data to my website and serve a web page showing graphs of pertinent info.

Now, a small update:

 
Here's a start on the frame. The plate along the bottom is just to keep it from tipping forward when I attach the light canopy.


I moved the Triops into the tank with the grass. They seem to really like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tetm-SExzw0


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

hey, I found a Dimmable LED driver that has 16 channels. It's less than $5 so a good deal. I'm going to do the lighting like you over my 10G. At night, you can have all blue light to have the moon light effect.

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tlc5941.html
it might work. I'll have to play with it first.

As for a auto dosing, http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/46367-overview-autodosing-methods.html


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

mistergreen said:


> Have you worked out an automated fertilization method?





Mowze said:


> Are you doing anything with water level control, auto top ups and dosing to control ferts, KH, GH, pH?


OK, I'm convinced (also owing to the fact that my 10G is an algae-fest probably due to not fertilizing).

Now I think I am going to need to build one of these (click the image to see a YouTube video):


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

Well, the Triops kicked it. I don't think they died of old age, they looked like they were doing fine this morning.

Anyway, since the tank is available again, I took a coupla pics:




Again, just for reference, the tank is 10" long x 5" deep x 6" tall.

I replaced the fan on the TEC heatsink last night, and managed to get ice forming on the water block (no water in it though), so I have high hopes there. I think I've figured out the pump/filter/cooler arrangement, finally. I plan to do a chamber with filter foam, then through the water block to a chamber with the bio-media (which I chopped into smaller pieces) and pump, then back to the tank. I'll probably start building tomorrow night. By the end of the weekend I hope to have a functioning tank, filter and cooler, then I can start the control and sensors.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Robotguy said:


> OK, I'm convinced (also owing to the fact that my 10G is an algae-fest probably due to not fertilizing).
> 
> Now I think I am going to need to build one of these (click the image to see a YouTube video):


wow, that's a serious pump. If you build it, you'll have to post the plans 

You'll need several pumps because you can't mix PO4 and micros together.

Not sure what 'shoes' are in the youtube description.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

First up: Should I move this thread to DIY? It seems like it might be more appropriate there. I do actually have water and plants in the tank, but they're just cutting from the sword in my 10G that I got impatient with, so I'm not sure if this qualifies as a "journal."

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for some silicone to cure, so I thought I'd post a few pics of this weekend's progress:













Not as clean as I was hoping for, but not bad for a [STRIKE]first[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]second[/STRIKE] third try. The pump output is rather high, but it was leaking between the mechanical and bio sections without passing through the water block (oops), so the flow may drop a bit once the silicone cures. If not I think I'll drop in a 12V to 9V DC-DC converter to slow the pump down a bit.

Only a bit more mechanical to go before I get cracking on the electronics. I picked up 20W worth of white LEDs and driver boards from DealExtreme, so hood for the lighting is next. I'll also add a couple of small RGB LEDs to tint the lighting. I was thinking tonight that it may be cool to have the "sun" move across the tank as the day progresses, so each LED is at full brightness for only a portion of the day.

Hmm. Time to go check for leaks...


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Robotguy said:


> Not as clean as I was hoping for, but not bad for a [STRIKE]first[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]second[/STRIKE] third try.


Looks top-notch to me. Be very proud of it!



Robotguy said:


> I picked up 20W worth of white LEDs and driver boards from DealExtreme, so hood for the lighting is next.


I'll be adding those driver boards to my electronics resource list. Amazingly small and cheap, and easily modified for different currents and PWM.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

RFUGs (Reverse Flow UnderGravel filters) intrigue me. I have done a little bit investigation and my general conclusion (mostly distilled from plantbrain's and hoppy's posts) is that they wont hurt, but there are probably better ways of doing things. That being said, the idea attracts me enough that I want to give it a try. This tank, to me, is all about playing around with new ideas so why not?

Since it's a tiny tank (10" X 5" X 6") I can't use standard PVC, it would take half the depth of the tank with substrate over it. So I thought about making a manifold from the small acrylic tubing I've been making lily pipes from. Then I remembered the diffusion bonded hydraulic manifolds we use at my work and thought "why not make a 1/4 in thick bonded manifold and cover it with pool filter sand?"

In case anyone is not familiar with bonded manifolds, basically take a 1/8" (or 1/4" would be easier but thicker) sheet of acrylic the size of the bottom of the tank, route grooves in it to form the manifold, glue another 1/8" sheet the same size on top, then drill the entry and exit holes through the top plate. Something like this, but simpler:









On another note, still no sign of my LEDs. The DealExtreme status says "Waiting for supplier" and it looks like the LEDs I ordered are discontinued LumiLEDs, so maybe I won't get them at all? On top of that, I got a refund from the webstore where I bought a bunch of Triops eggs saying "The manufacturer has discontinued this item." not having much luck sourcing parts.

Last bit of good news. I installed the bootloader in the ATMega128 board I am using for control and got the communication working with my DS18B20 temperature sensor. This weekend I hope to get comms running to the motor controller that is driving the TEC. Then I will have the minimum required for a functional aquarium: tank, filter, heater.


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## BrentD (Dec 11, 2008)

Robotguy said:


>


When I first saw the pic, before I read the details my first thought was "What do the ancient control crystals from Stargate Atlantis have to do with under-gravel filters"


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## Milq (Feb 11, 2010)

BrentD said:


> When I first saw the pic, before I read the details my first thought was "What do the ancient control crystals from Stargate Atlantis have to do with under-gravel filters"


High-five, my brother. Immediately reached for Stargate when I saw the pic.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

BrentD said:


> When I first saw the pic, before I read the details my first thought was "What do the ancient control crystals from Stargate Atlantis have to do with under-gravel filters"


LOL. Robotguy is really Daniel Jackson???


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## tyler79durdan (Jan 23, 2010)

I think my brain just melted and became mush...
KUTGW!

Are you just a floating brain, and if you have a body, does it get jealous.

-Aaron

Motherbrain from metroid...


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

DarkCobra said:


> Looks top-notch to me. Be very proud of it!


Thanks!



tyler79durdan said:


> Are you just a floating brain, and if you have a body, does it get jealous.


Um, no? But thanks, I think? 

It's not that I think this stuff up, I just spend every day watching smart people build cool stuff and wonder how I can apply it to my multitude of hobbies.

An update on the tiny bit of progress I've made. I built a prototype of the RFUG manifold (I really like saying ar-fug. Sounds like a bad word. Ar-fug. Ar-fug). I got impatient and it was really quick hack job driving the mill by hand/eye.



When I ran a bit of water through it and only the middle holes actually output anything, I realized that some more planning needed to take place. I remembered reading in Hoppy's RFUG thread


> the inside cross section area of the tube has to be substantially greater than the total area of the holes.


I started a new spreadsheet and came up with the following (the smallest drill bit I found without a major search of the lab* was .043"):










So I am hoping that 2X (which I call the manifold multiplier) qualifies as "substantially greater." Each section of the manifold has a cross sectional area that is at least double the total of all the sections that it feeds. Maybe a pic will help:



Each little section has 3 holes so the area for the water to flow through must be at least 2*3*pi*r^2, which comes out to .0087" sq in. I fiddled with the spreadsheet 'til I came up with a groove I could cut with a 1/8" end mill at .07" deep.

Next in line, each arm feeds 6 sections with an area of .0087 sq in, so it should be at least 2*6*.0087 sq in, which comes out to .104 sq in, or .5" wide by ~.2" deep.

I cobbled together the G-code during lunch today to drive my CNC mill, so hopefully I can get the manifold cut this week sometime, then install it, get the sand in the tank and the filter running.

On another note, it looks like my LEDs from DealExtreme finally shipped, but the control boards are backordered.



*Yes, I call my garage "the lab." My wife gave up giving me crap about it years ago, and my poor, poor teenage daughters think it's normal**.:icon_eek:

** Or at least they humour their crazy dad and pretend it's normal. Who can tell what's in the mind of a teenage girl? I never could, and by this point I'm sure I never will.


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## Regloh (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm loving it... I do think twice the cross section for the manifold over the branches should be sufficient. 
.043 is good, too. If you go any smaller, I would be afraid of clogging the manifold too easily...

I'm already thinking how I could apply this in a future tank 
How are you going to do the interface to the manifold? 

I was also thinking that the manifold could be incorporated into the bottom of the tank. So instead of a glass botom, you could silicone the side walls directly to the manifold... Just a thought...


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## AquaDean (Nov 20, 2009)

Robotguy,
Just found this thread today, very cool, I can't wait to see the whole tank finished. Lots of intriguing ideas all thrown into one small space. I'll be watching for all the updates.


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

WOW! I'm soooo jealous! I was actually thinking of doing something like this for my senior design project next spring. Having a micro control all the tank's functions would be amazing! Definitely subscribed!

Edit: And now my bank account hates you for showing me DealExtreme


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## pmd5700 (Oct 27, 2007)

Excellent idea! I've always wanted to do a tank with microcontroller. Can't wait to see it all set up.


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## jake1337 (Jan 9, 2010)

simply epic! truley inspiring , i will have to try something similar very soon!


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

*Regloh*, Thanks. I plan to drill a hole at the base of the large "tee" and glue in a piece of 3/8" ID acrylic tubing. Then I will run a piece of 1/4" ID acrylic as a hard-line down from the filter and just friction fit them together so it is removable. I also have plans for an acrylic 360 degree desktop nano, where the "bottom" of the tank is a manifold like this, but the sides extend past the bottom, leaving room underneath for the pump, etc. It will also have a tube extending up the center as an overflow-style intake and filter, and another riser inside that with the wiring for the LED lighting system. But, I need to finish this one first...

*Aquadean*, Thanks! I hope to see this one finished, too. Finishing projects isn't one of my strengths.:icon_redf All of the interest and support from the forum is helping a lot, though!

*Redfalcon*, Give it a shot, it would make a great senior project! And sorry about the bank account. That place is way too tempting! (Me + DealExtreme > My hobby allowance)

*Pmd5700*, Thanks! Take the plunge!. Mistergreen is working on one also. We should set up an API so we can share code and sensor info. Ooh! Dynamic sigs with current status of our tanks!

*jake1337*, Thanks! Sounds like we need a processor controlled aquarium pimp club? Maybe bumper stickers: "My aquarium has 128k flash and runs at 16MHz" or "My aquarium reads your email" :hihi:


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Robotguy said:


> We should set up an API so we can share code and sensor info. Ooh! Dynamic sigs with current status of our tanks!
> 
> *jake1337*, Thanks! Sounds like we need a processor controlled aquarium pimp club? Maybe bumper stickers: "My aquarium has 128k flash and runs at 16MHz" or "My aquarium reads your email" :hihi:


We should. I'm going to start another thread when I start building the LED canopy. I'll link all of the code there.

I had a Commodore 64 as a kid. It's funny how we had all that fun on 64K!


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## pmd5700 (Oct 27, 2007)

Robotguy said:


> *Pmd5700*, Thanks! Take the plunge!. Mistergreen is working on one also. We should set up an API so we can share code and sensor info. Ooh! Dynamic sigs with current status of our tanks!


That would be so cool! I have a BASIC Stamp board, I might start monitoring temperature with it, just to see how it changes throughout the day. Keep up the good work!

-Peter


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

Tiny update:

DealExtreme is now telling me that they shipped everything _except_ the LEDs and control boards. That place is really screwy, but with the prices they've got, it's hard to complain.

Got the manifold cut last night. Hopefully tonight I can test it out and make sure the flow is pretty even. Looks like a typo in my G-code put the input leg about .4" off center. Ah, well.









Added:
Using this calculator (http://www.defblog.se/LightCalculator/) and adjusting a bit for my LEDs, it looks like I should be able to get up to 300umol/s/m^2, which is the dividing line between high and very high light. BUT, the're LEDs, so I can just turn them down!


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

The flow seems moderately uniform. I put in a bit of "Betta Gravel" that I picked up from the local hardware/pet store, and the flow from the holes does push it around a bit. I'm hoping that when I get some more in there, it'll be OK. I do like the black gravel, though.

My goal for this weekend is to get the heater/cooler running under processor control.


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## sparkysko (Jun 11, 2004)

Harborfreight sells a random pack of micro carbide drill bits for like 5$. Smallest bit is 0.032" Part number 44924-1VGA

If you're looking for LEDs, you can order them from Cutter Electronics. They're one of the main distributors for Cree's. They're Australian so shipping takes just as ridiculously long as from Hong Kong. Or you can try Kaidomain which is the arch nemesis of dealextreme

I love the triops. I wish Walmart still sold them. I'd grow them out, then throw them into my African Cichlid tank. The fish didn't dare mess with the triops, they just ran away as the triops did their dopey ramming-into-everything swimming pattern. I certainly wouldn't want to touch a triop with my hand however (ewww)


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## gowfan05 (Feb 16, 2010)

This is AWESOME! I wish I had the skills and ability to build and think through a project like this. Do you have a specialty in electronics or is this just all at the top of your head?


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

*sparkysko*, I think I actually have that set from HF around somewhere. The .043" is working pretty well so far, but thanks for the info. If the LED's from DealExtreme don't ship soon, I may have to order from somewhere else. I'll keep those places in mind.

*gowfan05*, Thanks! I actually do this electronics stuff for a living, water and all! 

As far as the update on progress goes: Major Fail! I seriously underestimated the work necessary to get the heater/cooler running under processor control. However, in an attempt to convince myself that I actually accomplished something, I am going to post some really boring pictures and descriptions of my progress.

1. I built and mounted acrylic standoffs for the processor board (top), motor controller (lower right) and the extra board for all my custom circuits (lower left).




2. I wired up the new power supply, and modified the processor board to accept power from an external power supply rather than the USB/serial converter. I didn't take any pictures of this because the power supply is wired a bit dangerously and I didn't want anyone thinking this was a good idea. This new supply can put out 5V @ 5A and 12V @ 10A.

3.I added a heatsink to the driver chip on the motor controller. See the pics above and below. My friend at work who designed and sells the motor controllers mentioned that with the continuous current required by the TEC, the driver will definitely need a heatsink.

4. I wired the power supply, processor board and I/O board with the appropriate cables and performed a power-up test.


In order to wire the boards together I used my favorite type of connector. I call it the "Are you sure this is where this goes?" connector:




A well designed connector can only be plugged in one place and in one orientation, basically foolproof. This type lets me plug the connector on to any pin, allowing the most flexibility and the most opportunity to screw up and let the magic smoke out of my toys.

At least with all of the progress above, I should be able to start the programming required to run the motor controller tomorrow.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Robotguy said:


> A well designed connector can only be plugged in one place and in one orientation, basically foolproof. This type lets me plug the connector on to any pin, allowing the most flexibility and the most opportunity to screw up and let the magic smoke out of my toys.


Nice. Where did you get those header pin female connectors?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

And where did you get those screw terminals? I can't find them and places that carry them are out. They're quite popular.


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

DarkCobra said:


> Nice. Where did you get those header pin female connectors?


They are intended to be inserted into female Molex connectors:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/16-02-0096/?qs=zF2Np9wwC%252b71d3LuBrlv8Q%3d%3d


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## Robotguy (Jan 24, 2010)

mistergreen said:


> And where did you get those screw terminals? I can't find them and places that carry them are out. They're quite popular.


Those I got during a "junk" purge session at my previous job, over 10 years ago, so I really couldn't tell you the manufacturer.

I gotta say, though, every time I manage to supply a project from my bins of scavenged parts rather than having to buy components, it's just a bit more positive reinforcement that solidifies my "pack-rat-itis." I think I'm pretty much incurable by now.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Robotguy said:


> They are intended to be inserted into female Molex connectors:
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/16-02-0096/?qs=zF2Np9wwC%252b71d3LuBrlv8Q%3d%3d


Thanks! As luck would have it, I'm putting together an order for Mouser.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

mistergreen said:


> And where did you get those screw terminals? I can't find them and places that carry them are out. They're quite popular.


I'm guessing you're trying to find them at Sparkfun. There are other sources, but try their spring terminals instead.

Spring terminals are reputed by some to be better than screw terminals, as there's no chance of the screw backing out with time and vibration. They're easy to work with, too.

4UCON manufactures both spring and screw terminals for Sparkfun. They deal primarily with large orders and business customers, but have an option to order samples - up to 10 per type for most connectors, and they make a LOT of different connectors. A $1.50 connector at Sparkfun samples for about $0.20 at 4UCON; even with the expensive shipping from China it may still come out much cheaper. I put together an order that came to $55 with shipping, and stocked my parts bin with an incredible selection; though it took about 8 weeks to receive. It might have taken less time if I hadn't sampled so many different kinds.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Robotguy said:


> I gotta say, though, every time I manage to supply a project from my bins of scavenged parts rather than having to buy components, it's just a bit more positive reinforcement that solidifies my "pack-rat-itis." I think I'm pretty much incurable by now.


There's a benefit to being a hoarder eh? 




DarkCobra said:


> I'm guessing you're trying to find them at Sparkfun. There are other sources, but try their spring terminals instead.


Oh cool. I didn't know sparkfun carried those. Will have to make a mental note for next time. I just ordered some 1W resistors from mouser as well.


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## pmd5700 (Oct 27, 2007)

Robotguy said:


> I gotta say, though, every time I manage to supply a project from my bins of scavenged parts rather than having to buy components, it's just a bit more positive reinforcement that solidifies my "pack-rat-itis." I think I'm pretty much incurable by now.


I know what you mean. Every time something "breaks" I harvest all the parts out of it. I have quite a collection now :icon_mrgr.


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## ullbergm (Apr 19, 2010)

Long-time lurker, first time poster 

How's this project going? 

I have started on something similar myself, using Atmel AVR chips as the controller to run my Fluval EDGE. I'll probably start a journal for it eventually


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## divy (Mar 21, 2008)

OMG! i love this DIY,

I would love to build/make something like even a more simple one but my brain and computer tech things dont get along lol

ive tried to understand most of the stuff you are doing and im still getting no where :icon_smil

all i have managed so far with my build is a lcd fan speed and temp controller moulded into my hood

ill definatly be keeping an eye on this but i doubt ill understand it :icon_smil


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## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

This is one sophisticated set up!


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## akdmks (Nov 15, 2009)

wow


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