# illumon8's 57 Gallon Rimless Dutch



## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

In May I decided I was going to get back into keeping an aquarium and went out and bought an Oceanic 57 Gallon Rimless tank. When my wife became pregnant 2.5 years ago, I sold my 156 Gallon SPS Dominated Reef Tank in order to concentrate on her and my photography. Prior to that I had been keeping Saltwater Tanks for 14.5 years. In fact, I gave my first two reef fish I ever bought to a local breeder. Long before Nemo I bought a pair of tank raised percula that I had kept for the total of 14 years +. Longest I had ever kept any fish. I also gave up my Black Tang that I had for almost 9 years. One of the hardest decisions I have had to make. And by the way it was not my wife's idea, it was mine lol :icon_lol:

Anyway, I figured if I can keep Saltwater fish and coral for so long, that it would be easy to get back into freshwater and start the planted tank I was planning before I got bit by the saltwater bug. Was I wrong about planted tanks being easy. Lets just say it has been a humbling experience so far. 

Here is my current equipment list that I have slowly put together over the last month:

Oceanic 57 Gallon Rimless Aquarium
Eheim 2074 3E Canister Filter
Finnex 200 watt Heater/Thermometer
Aquarium Plants Ultimate CO2 system - (Carbon Doser, Milwaukee PH Controller, External Reactor with probe holder, 5lb CO2 tank)
Aquarium Plants Amazon Substrate
Lumenbright Mini Pendant Reflector
Coralvue 175 Watt Metal Halide ballast
Plusrite 8000K 175 Watt MH bulb
Misc. items (Test kits, Jugs, Ferts, etc.)

I hope you enjoy this planted tank journal. I will have many pics for you to see...


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Good luck with the venture into planted tanks and I know exactly what your saying about going from reef to planted tanks. I have been in the aquarium hobby for over 25 years and kept a reef tank for almost 10 years before I decided to give a try at planted tanks. There is quite the learning curve from reef to planted. You almost need to relearn what you think you know. For example coming from the reef side to the planted side I assumed that huge amounts of light were needed for planted tanks(boy was I wrong, but I learned about all the types of algae you can get with too much light and not enough nutients. How high are you going to mount your light above the tank because that is a ton of light for that tank? Looking forward to pictures.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

So one of the things I struggled with was what lighting set up I wanted for this tank. I started to think Japanese style with some hanging mini pendants with two 42 watt ECObulb Compact Flourescents at 6500K.










After I measured the PAR I was getting from these two bulbs I decided a different approach. The PAR was probably considered in the Medium-Low Light range. HC may have had a hard time growing in this 21" tall tank on the substrate. I have had a lot of experience with the Lumenbright Reflector and thought why not give this a try. The light penetration of this reflector is substantial and I know I could grow anything I want. Many here may feel it is too much light. I have not read of many using Metal Halides, so I guess I am going to be a guinea pig here










I bought an 8000K Plant Bulb on ebay for $20. Not a bad deal really, and I like the color of the light. The Japanese CF pendants did not give me the glimmer lines I am used to with my reef tanks. One thing I really like. I have nothing against T5's, its just that our Sun is a point source of light and T5's do not provide that. They provide even light throughout the whole aquarium. The metal halide mimics our sun as a point source of light. Loos a little more natural to me.

Here is the coral vue ballast I am using:










And here is an empty tank shot with the MH over it:


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

ua hua said:


> Good luck with the venture into planted tanks and I know exactly what your saying about going from reef to planted tanks. I have been in the aquarium hobby for over 25 years and kept a reef tank for almost 10 years before I decided to give a try at planted tanks. There is quite the learning curve from reef to planted. You almost need to relearn what you think you know. For example coming from the reef side to the planted side I assumed that huge amounts of light were needed for planted tanks(boy was I wrong, but I learned about all the types of algae you can get with too much light and not enough nutients. How high are you going to mount your light above the tank because that is a ton of light for that tank? Looking forward to pictures.



I really know what you mean. I am learning all over again. Many people know me as I guy that can pretty much keep any reef fish and grow coral faster then the average guy, but man I am going to need some assistance here I can tell.

I actually have the bulb of the reflector at 18.5 inches off the water and getting good spread and good AR numbers throughout the tank. What I like about these reflectors is that they are very powerful and allow them to be hung way above a tank. This limits heat tremendously. No need at all for even evaporative cooling over my tank. Really nice!!! 

You can read more about them in this article I wrote for Reefkeeping Magazine:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-06/review/index.php

The other thing is if you have too much light, you can always use a dimmable ballast an turn them down. Kind of a nice feature as you can give your plants different amounts of light. The sun is not the same strength 365 days a year :icon_wink The ballast I have is not dimmable but I know how to open them up and dim them down. It has only been a couple days since I put the plants in and they seem to have perked up with this lighting set up. We'll see how it goes.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Wow you have a good start with some great equipment. You will get some beutiful plants under that light.

I have wanted to try one of those rimless 57s for a riparium setup. It would be a nice size & shape for that.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Here are a few equipment shots:

The Carbon Doser from Aquarium Plants.com is just awesome. I love how easy this thing is to dial in. I used one with my GEO Calcium Reactor and just loved it. No worrying about solenoids and needle valves. I had them rig it so I can just get an additional box for a future tank.



















Actually I got so hooked on the idea that I already got a 55 Gallon set up 1 week into its cycle.

And here is my Eheim 3E 2074 - I really like this canister filter. Canister technology has come a long way since I have last bought one 16 years ago. Extremely quiet...


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Anybody have any idea why it keeps resizing the photos. It is squishng them down... I guess just click on the photo to see a full shot.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Wow you have a good start with some great equipment. You will get some beutiful plants under that light.
> 
> I have wanted to try one of those rimless 57s for a riparium setup. It would be a nice size & shape for that.



I think a riparium would be really cool with one of these tanks. I am sure I will want to grow some emersed plants at some point. Just hope my fish aren't too jumpy

You know it is probably not as clear as ADA glass but it is definitely an upgrade from your typical green glass aquariums. More of a sky blue color from the side. $260 after tax which is not bad.

Dimensions are 36"l x 18"w x 21"h

WOW Hydrophyte! Just took a look at your Ripariums, absolutely gorgeous!!!


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

So I finally got my plants this past Friday and put them in an Alum bath for about 4 hours. We'll see if it was worth it. Only time will tell...










Everything seems to be doing alright, except I lost 3 bunches of Hydrotriche hottoniiflora. It just fell to pieces in my hand. Also 1 bunch of Ludwigia Ovalis looked pretty awful. Pretty happy with the rest of the plants. I ill have a stocking list tomorrow. Really just started out with some plants I liked. Pretty much trial and error here. What I am learning is that I need to just learn how to keep plants first. I got this hairbrained idea I was going to come up with this incredible aquascape right off the bat because I had no problem doing that with reef tanks. Sorry sir, try again...

Please take it easy on me - I am just a rookie or should I say Algae Grower... LOL

This here is really not a scape, after about 4 hours of twittling around I decide to throw the rest of the bunches and HC pots in and call it a night... 

*TAKEN ON 6/25/11 - 1 day after planting*










I tried to scape it a bit better today - will show a pic tomorrow...


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

If I were to use that tank as a riparium I would probably lower the water to about 4" below the top rim. This would give the underwater area broader and more pleasing proportions, while also decreasing the likelihood of fish jumping up and out of the tank.

If it were any thicker that glass tint might be more noticable, but as it is it is you can hardly see it.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice plants!


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Nice plants!



Thanks. Let's see if I can keep them alive... 

Still waiting for my brown diatoms... It will be a month on Wednesday....

I am itching to get some fish in here... I started out doing a fishless cycle with Ace Hardware Ammonia and am waiting for it to complete. I went from 4ppm to 2ppm a couple nights ago...

Still testing 0 Nitrite and 0 Nitrate...

The 0 Nitrate scares me... I am sure I have some plants in here that are freaking out with no nitrate at all...


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## kineticcomfort (May 13, 2011)

is that HC on top of ur driftwood.. how is it secured??

I have an extremely similar setup to you as far as filter co2 equipment, same co2 system, just no PH controller, but I have the carbon doser electronic reg, with the ext 5000 reactor and the ap tank, I got the 20lb so I would have to refill less and an ehiem 2075 filter

I run around 3.5 wpg, however t-5 no and power comacts all coralife fixtures.., tank is a 75, I have a hard time getting the reactor to get enouhg co2 into aquarium... I have messed with it alot and now have started to make changes to reactor, I am accually going to be putting in a ceramic difuser into the reator and run something to catch smaller bubbles than the scrubber thing they use, so my tank still does not have the 7 up effect, i already drilled out the little piece they screw into the top where you run the co2 and put an airline through it, right now just has a wooden airstone diffusing the co2 in the reactor and some of it is escaping into the tank.. good luck beautiful tank.. let me know if you run into same problem with co2 system

would just get alot of buildup durring the day that would seem to take forever to go away and sometimes would still have gas from previous day in reactor.. Tom Barr recomended a venturi ran to intake of filter.. from reactor


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## doubleott05 (Mar 16, 2010)

where did you get thoes silver CF fixtures from? i have been looking for something just like that. 

Thansk
Elliot


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

Did you add some hardness back to your RO water? Or is that RO water?

Be sure to keep the CO2 and ferts turned way up. You are sitting on an algae bomb if you are short on either for even a short period of time, and unfortunately, most folks new to the hobby make that mistake. I would want the color of the drop checker to be completely yellow at this stage of things. Crank it up.

Also, break out the good test kits (obligatory: always use a known reference) and keep dumping ferts until you get where you need to be. I know the reputation of those lumenbrights, so your stems are going to be drinking down CO2 and ferts at warp speed. When I have a new high light setup, I test daily for awhile to get a feel for nutrient uptake.

You're going to love plants. I would stare at corals for months and get excited about an inch or two of growth. Stem plants will grow multiple inches _per week_ under that lighting if you give them enough CO2 and ferts.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

kineticcomfort said:


> is that HC on top of ur driftwood.. how is it secured??
> 
> I have an extremely similar setup to you as far as filter co2 equipment, same co2 system, just no PH controller, but I have the carbon doser electronic reg, with the ext 5000 reactor and the ap tank, I got the 20lb so I would have to refill less and an ehiem 2075 filter
> 
> ...


That is HC on the driftwood. Wanted the tree effect in the tank. I hear that HC does not spread too much on driftwood which is why I covered it. I hear it will puff up though which is what I want. I tied the HC with some green fishing line I had left over. Kind of a pain but it works. I used a couple wrap arounds and then a texas knot to make it easier to tie.

My drop checker is showing yellow-green so I seem to be having no trouble with my external reactor. I believe the whole idea behind this reactor is for the CO2 to mix into the water. I was not expecting major bubbling to go on inside the reactor as that would mean it was doing its job. I am running 5psi currently at 1 bubble per second. I really like how easy it is to control the size of the bubble with this regulator. I am sure I need to turn it up a bit though. The PF controller really helps dial things in with not a lot of thinking going on. I am set for a PH of 6.8 and when the tank hits a bit over 6.9 the regulator turns on. Not doing a day/night cycle yet for the CO2 since there are no fish.

What I do know is over the last couple days I have major pearling throughout the tank so CO2 must be reasonable in the tank. I will keep an eye on it and let you know. It is hard to really say at this point as it has only been set up about 5 days with CO2.

I know I am going to need a 20lb tank especially when I get the 55 Gallon lined in. This 5 lber will be my spare when the time comes.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

doubleott05 said:


> where did you get thoes silver CF fixtures from? i have been looking for something just like that.
> 
> Thansk
> Elliot



Hey Elliot,

I got the fixtures at Menards. They were only $20 on clearance and then I bought electrical cord with white, black and green wires exposed on one end there too. They are really cool pendants and give off good amount of light. Any tanks that are 16" tall and under would do very well with these I am sure. They come in silver and black. The black ones have a gold painted interior which I don't think would be all that great on the color of the tank or reflectance. The silver ones are painted silver inside which is flat. Maybe a glossy metallic silver pain on the inside might do even better.

I would not hesitate for a second to do this on any tanks that are not too deep. I bough the two reflectors, two 150 watt equivalent bulbs, and line cords for $60. Not bad. Also these bulbs only put out 42 watts of energy so a total of 84 watts - very efficient.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Booger said:


> Did you add some hardness back to your RO water? Or is that RO water?
> 
> Be sure to keep the CO2 and ferts turned way up. You are sitting on an algae bomb if you are short on either for even a short period of time, and unfortunately, most folks new to the hobby make that mistake. I would want the color of the drop checker to be completely yellow at this stage of things. Crank it up.
> 
> ...


Hey Booger,

I am using Seachem's Equilibrium bringing my GH to 3 degrees and I am using Seachems Alkaline buffer and Acid buffer to help buffer PH and bring my KH between 3dkh and 4 dkh. I am used to mixing salt so it is no big deal for me. I know most people use tap water but I just don't trust what are water companies are throwing through our water pipes periodically. I would rather know exactly what is going into my aquariums. No surprises:icon_wink

I will keep my ferts up. I am using Total liquid from aquariumplants.com and placed a total pellet under each plant. This is really experimental at this point. What test kits do you recommend I get?

SO you think the drop checker should be yellow? If I had fish in there would that not be a problem?


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

illumon8 said:


> Hey Booger,
> 
> I am using Seachem's Equilibrium bringing my GH to 3 degrees and I am using Seachems Alkaline buffer and Acid buffer to help buffer PH and bring my KH between 3dkh and 4 dkh. I am used to mixing salt so it is no big deal for me. I know most people use tap water but I just don't trust what are water companies are throwing through our water pipes periodically. I would rather know exactly what is going into my aquariums. No surprises:icon_wink
> 
> ...



Reconstituted RO is as good of a starting point as it gets, so keep it up if you don't mind the hassle. Just don't skip any water changes.

As for ferts, I think the pellets are probably ok, but I have no clue what's in the total liquid. Nothing listed on the website. Keep a real close watch on that and look into dry dosing standard ferts. It's probably in your best interest to do so over the long term.

I use a mix of Lamotte, Salifert, and Elos test kits. Also have a Hanna EC pen. API is cheap so everyone uses their kits, but I find them to be woefully inconsistent and inaccurate. I like Lamotte the most with the exception of their phosphate kit.

The trick is to have a reference to compare to. e.g. Take some RO water and KNO3 and mix up a solution (use one of the online fert calculators) that is, say 20ppm of nitrate. This is your target. Then test your tank water and see how it compares to your reference solution. This is much better than blindly assuming your test kit is accurate.

Keeping in mind that drop checkers are indicators and not measures of CO2 concentration, I would guess you are lower than ideal. I usually keep CO2 sensitive otocinclus in my tanks and turn the CO2 up until I see them start heading for the filter output en masse. I back it off a bit and my drop checkers are always more yellow than green. You'll have to play with it and let the fish/plants tell you what the right amount is.


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## phorty (Aug 2, 2010)

Nice to see a local Chicagoan getting their aquarium supplies from Menards!!


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

phorty said:


> Nice to see a local Chicagoan getting their aquarium supplies from Menards!!



I have a Menards less than a mile from the house. Great plumbing spplies. It is nice when you have a whole day of plumbing to do and you end up going back to he store 3-4 times.:icon_wink

I really felt I should keep both of those pendants because 1 of them over a small tank like a 11 to 30 Gallon cube would be perfect. 

When you know you are spending money in so many places it is easy to take back anything you don't need for the current build. Nice fixtures. Seriously a metallic silver paint job on the inside could only help the already decent PAR #s down to 14" in the tank I was getting in the 60's on the end to 80's in the middle. Also I was mistaken. The first bulb I tried was a 150w equiv. This one was a 200 watt equivalent. Not bad for 42 watts. Color was what you would expect out of a 6500K. A bit bluer then you would then you would think. 

I got to go. Did not have much time tonight. Our anniversary. Will post plants asap.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

great start! I am watching the development...


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## doubleott05 (Mar 16, 2010)

illumon8 said:


> Hey Elliot,
> 
> I got the fixtures at Menards. They were only $20 on clearance and then I bought electrical cord with white, black and green wires exposed on one end there too. They are really cool pendants and give off good amount of light. Any tanks that are 16" tall and under would do very well with these I am sure. They come in silver and black. The black ones have a gold painted interior which I don't think would be all that great on the color of the tank or reflectance. The silver ones are painted silver inside which is flat. Maybe a glossy metallic silver pain on the inside might do even better.
> 
> I would not hesitate for a second to do this on any tanks that are not too deep. I bough the two reflectors, two 150 watt equivalent bulbs, and line cords for $60. Not bad. Also these bulbs only put out 42 watts of energy so a total of 84 watts - very efficient.


 
thats fantastic i have a 7 gallon ada cube this would be perfect for.
thanks


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## phorty (Aug 2, 2010)

illumon8 said:


> I have a Menards less than a mile from the hiouse. Great plumbing spplies. It is nice when you have a whole day of plumbing to do and you end up going back to he store 3-4 times.:icon_wink
> 
> I really felt I should keep both of those pendants because 1 of them over a small tank like a 11 to 30 Gallon cube would be perfect.
> 
> ...


I might buy them from you if you still have them.... Whereabouts in Chicago are you? I love that white brick wall behind the tank!

Also, where did you get that tank? Locally?


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

I actually returned both sets but they had 6 pendants left. They were on clearance for $20 so I would check out your local Menards in the light section to see if they still got them. 










This is the bulb I used:










Just don't forget to grab the black line cord with green,black and white wires already stripped on one side. You can find them with the heavy duty extension cords. I believe I paid total of $65 for two sets of pendants, bulbs, and line cords after tax.

You want the silver not black(gold interior) pendant...


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## phorty (Aug 2, 2010)

Cool, I'll stop by there and see if any are left. I need to return something there anyway. Where did you get the tank?


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## sanj (Jan 11, 2004)

Do you bite your finger nails? :tongue:


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

sanj said:


> Do you bite your finger nails? :tongue:


Big time and especially when I am starting a new system...LOL


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

phorty said:


> Cool, I'll stop by there and see if any are left. I need to return something there anyway. Where did you get the tank?


I got it at Aquarium Adventure. I thing $257 before tax. The stand was ridiculously priced. I bought a stand from Dr. Fosters for like $120 shipped. Solid stand holds everything I need underneath. Total Tank and stand cost me $400 I believe.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Booger said:


> Reconstituted RO is as good of a starting point as it gets, so keep it up if you don't mind the hassle. Just don't skip any water changes.
> 
> As for ferts, I think the pellets are probably ok, but I have no clue what's in the total liquid. Nothing listed on the website. Keep a real close watch on that and look into dry dosing standard ferts. It's probably in your best interest to do so over the long term.
> 
> ...


 Booger,

It is alright if I call you that right...lol I would love a little back and forth on this.

What I was asking was what tests do you perform? I am sure Nitrate,PH, KH, and GH. Maybe Phosphate, but many don't seem to concerned with that and probably want to make sure it is in your tank than not. I plan on keeping an eye on it and not letting it get out of hand. I bought the Hanna Phosphate checker. Very accurate and reasonable priced at $50 with extra test packets. It is an actual colorimeter so it gives you a digital numerical reading. Do you test anything else, maybe Potassium? Salifert kit should be good here. Do you test Iron? And are there any decent test for accurately giving you CO2 level? Any other tests?

The Total fertilizer again is an experiment. We will see how it turns out. In just 3 days I am already seeing growth and the plants look content. 

The contents are actually:

*TOTAL SUBSTRATE PELLETS* 
Total Pellets provide all essential macro and micronutrients for luxuriant Aquarium Plant Growth. Iron and other essential micronutrients are chelated to assure effective uptake by plants. (Total Pellets do not contribute to Phosphate levels.) 
*Directions:* Inject one pellet under a single plant or group of plants within an area of 3in by 3in square. Inject no more than 1 pellet per each 3in by 3in area of aquarium bottom per month. Plants should be growing in at least 2in of substrate. With the injector angled at least 30 degrees off vertical, inject pellets into the substrate to about 1/2in under the plant root area. 

Chemically Active Ingredients: Hydrated Magnesium sulfate, Potassium nitrate, Potassium sulfate, also trace amounts of;  Cobalt EDTA, Copper EDTA, Iron EDTA, Magnesium EDTA, Zinc EDTA, Manganese sulfate, Sodium Borate, Sodium Molybdate, (Chelating Agent: Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid) 

Physically Active Ingredients: Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3) Calcium Carbonate Equivalent (CaCO3) Calcium Sulfate (CaSO42H2O)

The liquid is supposed to have the same contents just in liquid form. It is so inexpensive and it appears to have all the dry ferts in there together so I am going to give it a shot.

I use RO because it is the only way I can guarantee my water quality. Again you never know what might be coming down the pipes. It takes just one bad day of poor water coming through to cause issues with your system. Dechlorinator does not solve all problems. 

I did my research and I think it is important for aquarists to know that you "do" need to reconstitute your water. There is nothing in RO water at all. Seachem's Equilibrium is keeping my GH at 3 degrees. It is easy to keep soft water when using RO. Cardinals and Discus will love you for this. Seachem's Alk Buffer seems to do the trick. But this brings me to where I would like to get you thoughts.

It seems that I would need to raise KH in my tank to 5-7 degrees in order to get yellow CO2 readings. Let me explain.

I am using a PH controller. You are not it appears. I know when I am running a Calcium Reactor as opposed to a CO2 reactor I want to keep my PH in the range where the calcium carbonate media will break down. Not all media breaks down at the same PH. So the controller helps to dial this in and keep the media dissolving into the water providing food for the coral. 

What I am noticing is if I keep my PH set to 6.8 then the controller turns on the regulator to release CO2 bubbles into my reactor in order to keep it at 6.8. The PH rises slowly to between 6.9 and 7.0 before it starts to release CO2 again. Now you may figure that turning up the pressure to let's say 10lbs might give you more CO2 as the bubbles will be bigger, however the controller works against you. If you give the reactor bigger bubbles it seems as though the regulator just shuts off more quickly than at a lower pressure. So we that use controllers are probably putting the same amount of CO2 through during a regulator cycle regardless of pressure. So how do you assure getting more CO2 in your tank?

Three ways I think. First way is to raise KH between 5-7 or maybe higher if you started there. I am 3 degrees, but with the fish I want to keep around 3-4 is really where I want to be. The second way is to lower PH to 6.4 to 6.6 let's say. This should keep the regulator on longer giving you more CO2 in the reactor. 

The third way is seeming to me to be the most logical and that is to ditch the controller. It seems the best thing to do for the plants and fish is to only provide CO2 when the plants are using it. When the lights go out, it does not make much sense to gas your fish at night when they are already getting enough CO2 from the plants. It seems turning on a regulator an hour before the lights come on or maybe for the first hour of the 1st set of lights to come on. And turn it off a half hour before the lights go out or during the dusk part of the cycle. Here is where setting the pressure on the Aquarium plants carbon doser really come in handy. You can set bubbles per second easily as well. Not worried about solenoids or needle valves here. Now during the light cycle you should not be as worried about gasing your fish because you do have some balance I am sure with the plants giving off oxygen. 

I guess the one benefit of a controller is it will keep things pretty stable PH wise, but I think when a tank grows in you might find you can't get enough CO2 in the tank.

I am sure you have thought about this quite a bit so I am interested in hearing your thoughts. I have to stop relating things to reefkeeping...:icon_wink


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## kineticcomfort (May 13, 2011)

My drop checker is showing yellow-green so I seem to be having no trouble with my external reactor. I believe the whole idea behind this reactor is for the CO2 to mix into the water. I was not expecting major bubbling to go on inside the reactor as that would mean it was doing its job. I am running 5psi currently at 1 bubble per second. I really like how easy it is to control the size of the bubble with this regulator. I am sure I need to turn it up a bit though. The PF controller really helps dial things in with not a lot of thinking going on. I am set for a PH of 6.8 and when the tank hits a bit over 6.9 the regulator turns on. Not doing a day/night cycle yet for the CO2 since there are no fish.
[/QUOTE said:


> you said no day-night schedule on the CO2? do you still turn off the co2 with the lights??? plants do not like extra CO2 at night either..
> 
> I run about 1.5 bps @ 8.5psi, this does well for me and my fish are happy
> I have also switched out my eheim 2075 for a rena filstar xp4 as the eheim wasnt giving me the flow I needed on the reactor... (wish I had a flow tester)
> ...


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## phorty (Aug 2, 2010)

illumon8 said:


> I actually returned both sets but they had 6 pendants left. They were on clearance for $20 so I would check out your local Menards in the light section to see if they still got them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just got back from Menards and they had 2 of the 3 pendants you have pictured but unfortunately not the silver one. Oh well, I probably don't need another tank any way haha!


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

I'd be happy to grab one for you - it is only 2 minutes away. I can trade you for some plants maybe or you can just pick it up.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

kineticcomfort,

I am not day/night cycling CO2 right now. I did not realize the plants don't like the extra CO2 at night. I definitely need to get my regulator on a timer.

I kind of like your idea of getting more flow in the tank. I can't imagine when this grows in how much the flow will be reduced. We all spend money on things we probably don't need. Seems foolish to be worried about stretching your time between CO2 refills. At $20 a fill on the average that seems really cheap to me if that is one of the three main sources of food besides light ad ferts for our plants. When you think about it we probably would spend an equal amount on lights, ferts, and CO2 if you let some CO2 escape. I don't think it is a big deal to grab another tank that can wait between refills. 

I don't want any more flow at this point until the plants root. If I put another pump in here it would cause havoc. Eventually I will add a pump across the front of the tank just to keep the water moving through the tank and not to stress the plants too much. Blowing across your foreground glasso or HC would make sense. From what I have read they like the flow. At least this way CO2, ferts, whatever is being distributed throughout the tank. I think that is most important. It is just too hard to guage things without fish in the water...

I hear you on getting RO at the store. An RO/DI was one of the first pieces of kit I bought. It's an investment up front but man it beats paying the gas to drive to a store each time. If you guys are doing 50% water changes that would get really old quick. 

Check out Bulk Reef Supply - great prices on what is basically a Spectrapure Max Cap that run $200 with all the same parts.

This:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/75-gpd-ro-di-5-stage-chloramines-plus-system.html

or this:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/75-gpd-ro-di-5-stage-plus-system.html


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## phorty (Aug 2, 2010)

illumon8 said:


> I'd be happy to grab one for you - it is only 2 minutes away. I can trade you for some plants maybe or you can just pick it up.


Just PM'd you...


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

So on sunday after realizing it is not a good idea to bury some bunched stem plants with an anchor on I decided to reaquascape the tank. II pretty much planted two to three stems maximum at a time providing some separation for root growth and the chance to not rot the plants. Here are some pics a couple days after introducing them to the tank.

*ALL THE FOLLOWING PICS TAKEN ON 6/26/11 - 2 days after planting:*

Bacopa Australis - the bottom nodes of these two bunches were just mush. I would have lost it all if I did not act when I did. I understand why I have read that this is not easy to plant. Lots of stem rot apparantly which tipped me off to check them. Anyway the stems I was able to save seem to be doing very well.










After Friday I was so tired I did not finish with the HC. So I left in pots until Sunday when I aquascaped my foreground like this. 




























I bought 12 pots and placed 6 on top of my driftwood. Trying to go for the puffed out tree look... These plants are getting a ton of light and doing fine so far.










I even have a whole bunch of pearling going on...



















Hopefully it takes well to the driftwood and my foreground fills in nice...


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Some other typical plants:

Anubias Barteri Nana

I know this is a low light plant. It works really well being shaded by this driftwood. I think I am giving it just enough light to do well. Not the hardest plant to keep, but you just can't beat the mean green anubias can put out.










Riccia Fluitans

It was expensive but I wanted to see if I can puff out a moss rock. It was tied down with green fishing line. It appears to be puffing up. New pictures fromt today will show it looking better. It seems Riccia can really mess up your tank. Hopefully I get lucky on this one. I guess people float them but man it seems it would just break apart and be all over your tank.










Cyperus Helferi

Another difficult plant to grow apparantly. I guess it is an algae magnet. Good thing I have not seen any yet. This is one of my favorites. It is nice to see this swaying its long leaves in the current. I moved it over last night after moving some Ammannia and there were many roots already growing out of the pieces. I also bunched it all together second time around.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

***by the way you need to click on the photos to see them in full size. for some reason all my vertical pics are getting squashed.***

Now for some interesting stuff. 

Ammannia Senegalensis

I have read this plant is very difficult as most have the folded down leaves. Remember this picture because in just under a week the whole tops of one of these bunches is almost completely red. The bunch getting the most light is the one that is changing the quickest. I will be posting a before and after shot pretty soon. I want them to color up a bit more. These stems can easily float away. They seem very bouyant. I initially took 4 stems to a bunch and used the Florida Aquatic Nurseries plant anchors. They seem to be working well. Last night after noticing how much they were coloring up I decided to redo the bunches to 3 stems each and tried to pair them off together from shortest to tallest and to move them into better light to see if the others will color up the same rate. 










Ludwigia Peruensis

I love this plant but why wouldn't you. Bright red and green - perfect. I wish I would have bought two bunches instead of one. 5 stems came with this plant. Upcoming pictures will show roots growing already 2 inches from each node. Pretty cool stuff. This was probably the easiest plant other than Cypers Helferi to plant. Stems went right in and easy to separate. 











Rotala Wallichii

Now this plant was one of the tougher ones to plant. I took 3 stems into each hole instead of the 10 stems in each bunch that I got. I can't wait to show you the pic form today. This plant has a lot of new growth , more vibrant with pink tips getting brighter each day. One of my favorites so far. It is amazing what I a few days can do for a plant.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

The last two stem plants are:

Rotala Rotundifolia

Nice plant. I peeled a bunch of leaves off the bottom of these plants as I guess the leaves end up dieing from having little light down there through the dense foliage. I planted a bunch in a Florida Aquatic Nurseries anchor and then planted 3 stems at a time of the other bunch. this is what it looked like before I separated the stems.










Another shot of the top of one:











Lastly for a splash of color:

Nesaea pedicellata

Beautiful yellow leaves on this plant with the bright pink stalks. Love the way these leaves fan out. Planted these stems two at a time. It is doing really well and rooting from the nodes much like the Ludwigia. 

Here is a frontal shot:











And here is a side shot so you can see how I separated them:










So there are the first plants for the system. It appears everything is doing well. Still waiting out the cycle. Ammonia is dropped in half twice so I think we are almost there. Can't wait to get fish in here...


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## Ben. (Mar 29, 2011)

FTS please

are you going to leave the HC potted like that in the substrate?


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

HC have been planted.

Here is an FTS. A little lazy to get all the props out. 

*PHOTO TAKEN 6/30/11 - 6 days after planting:*











I have a you tube video uploading right now - it says 2 hours left so I will have to post the link in the morning.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Good luck with the Cyperus. I can never get it to last very long in my tank and it is the one plant I really wanted for my background. I would like to know if very many people have long term success with this plant. Mine would grow great for the first few months and then would slowly start to die.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Thanks man. I have read that about Cyperus.

We'll see how they do...

I am going to be posting a lot of pics in this thread and generally I do them in bunches. If at all possible don't quote those posts because many pics will then be reposted. It takes up a lot of space. I think it is ok to repost full tank shots because those will be on their own. Hope that does not come off as too anal...lol


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

illumon8 said:


> Thanks man. I have read that about Cyperus.
> 
> We'll see how they do...
> 
> I am going to be posting a lot of pics in this thread and generally I do them in bunches. If at all possible don't quote those posts because many pics will then be reposted. It takes up a lot of space. I think it is ok to repost full tank shots because those will be on their own. Hope that does not come off as too anal...lol


 
Fixed:thumbsup:


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

A side view of the tank:


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

ua hua said:


> Fixed:thumbsup:


Thanks bro


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Here is a video giving an overview of the plants 6 days after planting. You can watch it in 360p all the way up to 1080p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CVh9R82tZg


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

So I did a fishless cycle on this tank. I used the Ace Hardware Ammonia raising the level to 4ppm. Over the last week it has dropped from 4ppm to 1ppm. I am not sure if that is the bacteria acting or if the plants are also contributing to this. Everyone I know around has saltwater systems so I could not get any gravel or media from an existing tank. Instead about 8 days ago I started Seachem's Stability. It seems to be working pretty well as after the last dose yesterday emptying the rest of the bottle I am starting to see the numbers move. The end of the bottle had a lot more cloudiness then doses from previous days. It says to shake it up which I did but it appears maybe most of the good stuff is still on the bottom. I am going on the 29th day now so it seems like it is right on target. Today my Nitrite finally went up to 0.25ppm up from 0ppm and my Nitrate is measuring 5ppm. My Ammonia is still 1ppm though. Probably a good thing though since there is no fish. The nitrifying bacteria will need it to grow in population. 

Exciting times. Fish coming soon...:smile:


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

I have been incredibly busy the last couple weeks and have not had time to post. I need to go back and update photos. I had save them at too large a size. I have a lot to report over the last couple weeks. I moved some things around just to make better space. Growth has been great. Colors of plants are changing. I finally added some fish. It will take a while to give all the updates so it will have to come sometime this week or sporadically. 

Here is an updated full tank shot:

*PICTURE TAKEN ON 7/10/11 - 16 days After planting*:









*
PICTURE TAKEN 6/30/11 - 6 days after planting:*


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## fishboy199413 (Jan 20, 2010)

I love your tank roud:. One thing that will help your Cyprus Helferi grow is if you seperate the individual root systems and then I would place it in the back so that ity covers up the equipment and also will create a sense of a larger tank. What kind of fish are those?


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Thanks Fishboy! Eventually the light cord in the back will be put up and out of the way and lily pipes will be ordered ASAP. I actually already replaced the heater with a Hydor inline heater. One less thing in the tank. It should be pretty clear of equipment when I get the lily pipes. 

I actually moved the driftwood towards the back where the Cyperus was before. If you have not noticed it is grown tremendously already and the roots were over 3 inches when I moved it after only 14 days. I actually like it in the front for now. It was hidden back there and I did not get much of a chance to see it. I really don't have much room left until I trim the first time, which will need to be soon. This aquascape will change periodically I am sure. I am just learning to grow these plants right now. I am not going for an Amano worthy scape or anything at this point. Just trying to make it look somewhat nice. 

I have a 55 Gallon that is just about done cycling. It only took 16 days to cycle it with some media from my 57 Gallon. Crazy! When I get that up and running(still need lights, extra Carbon Doser attachment, and diffuser) I will post a new thread of that tank. It will mostly be a grow out tank. The Rotala Indica, Bacopa, part of the Cyperus, And half of the Golden Nesea will be the first plants I put in there. 

I am actually selling my Panasonic GF-1 20mm kit to fund the new tank items. The 57 Gallon wiped me out...LOL


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

I will post some pics soon but my fish list includes:

8 Congo Tetras - 5 Males and 3 Females I am looking for 2 more females(hard to get and 1 more male for a total of 11.) In a year or longer when they grow out to 2 inches or so I will build out a 120 Gallon for them to reside. 

2 American flagfish - Male and Female Pair 

5 Otocinclus - Lost two in a couple days. 7 originally - they are touchy for sure. I believe the two I lost were from a recently shipped batch to the store. These guys really cleaned up the Cyperus and other leaves as well very quickly. I may only need 5 total.

3 Yo Yo loaches - very small which I like as they will get big.

I may add a clown pleco if I can find one and maybe two more American flagfish females. I really like the flagfish. I always do Apistos and I just needed to do something different. They pretty much took care of all the hair algae that bloomed after the cycle. Besides these above additions I will definitely be getting the two female Congos and one more male.

Now I have to figure out the 55 Gallon stocking list...


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## nchumley (Mar 29, 2010)

Excellent thread and things look like they're progressing beautifully! 

Are you switching to lily pipes for purely cosmetic reasons, or is there a functional purpose?


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## Ahura-sama (Dec 7, 2009)

Cyperus Helferi is not that hard. Provide as much light and as you can along with sufficient CO2 and it'll send out so much daughter plants, you can start selling them by end of month. If you dont plan to sell, then space the mother plant out so there are space for the daughter to break out.

When you split it, just pull it off by the base like wooden chopstick. At least 1 or 2 roots will go with it.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

nchumley said:


> Excellent thread and things look like they're progressing beautifully!
> 
> Are you switching to lily pipes for purely cosmetic reasons, or is there a functional purpose?



Thank you! Switching for both reasons. I would like some surface extraction from the lily pipe and also I just don't like other pipes in my tank that are greener then my plants

If there was a way to set up planted tanks efficiently with pressurized CO2 with a sump system, I would prefer that over a canister filter. I can put a lot of lava rock/media, heaters, chemical reactors when needed, etc out of the way in a sump and be able to control my flow in the tank much better. I just don't know if sumps are a good idea for pressurized CO2 systems.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Ahura-sama said:


> Cyperus Helferi is not that hard. Provide as much light and as you can along with sufficient CO2 and it'll send out so much daughter plants, you can start selling them by end of month. If you dont plan to sell, then space the mother plant out so there are space for the daughter to break out.
> 
> When you split it, just pull it off by the base like wooden chopstick. At least 1 or 2 roots will go with it.



Thanks for the advice! It seems to be easy to grow. I have read a lot of people having problems with it though. I will most likely bring a few pieces into the 55 Gallon when I get the lights and extra carbon doser. I should cut the roots if I replant right? How far should I cut them down? The Greater Chicago Cichlid Association has a sellers page for aquatic plants. Not many people selling there. I think I will have to grow some out along with the Wallichii that has colored up nice. If I can get the Ammania to color up from bronze to red, that may recoop some of the funds I have put in as well.


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## Ahura-sama (Dec 7, 2009)

From my experience, they're easy to send up daughters but that's where the spurt stop. The actual growth of the adult leaves is slower.

Trim so that there are about 2 inches from the base is good, it'll grow right back in no time. A pretty hardy plant from what I've seen.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. When I trim this weekend I will separate them a bit.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

Lost my third Otocinclus last night.:icon_cry: I bought 3 the first day and 4 the next day from two different LFS's. I am pretty sure all deaths were from the second batch as those were all bigger otos than the first three I got. All other fish are doing great. Levels are fine. I know these guys are sensitive but wow! Too bad they died after the 2 day live guarantee. Now I am down to 4 otos.


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## phorty (Aug 2, 2010)

illumon8 said:


> Lost my third Otocinclus last night.:icon_cry: I bought 3 the first day and 4 the next day from two different LFS's. I am pretty sure all deaths were from the second batch as those were all bigger otos than the first three I got. All other fish are doing great. Levels are fine. I know these guys are sensitive but wow! Too bad they died after the 2 day live guarantee. Now I am down to 4 otos.


Otos never live for me either. Maybe it's our water.


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## illumon8 (Jun 9, 2011)

I am using RO/DI. But apparantly you should not blame yourself. They have issues with their digestive system that make sit hard to keep them alive if they don't get there diet right off the bat.

I found this information on the web - great article that explains what happens to otos. I guess they have a bacteria inside of them that helps them digest the food so they can get nutrients. If they do not get fed well enough - no algae or zuchinni supplemented the bacteria dies back and they don;t get their nutrition. This is probably why skinny otos just won't make it so don't buy them if they look famished. I have also heard people say that they died after dosing with medications. Maybe the medication itself is killing the good bacteria in them which in turn causes their demise. 

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/otocinclus

My 3 otos died about 5 days after I bought them and Aquarium Adventure only has a two day live guarantee. The manager up at the Schaumburg store, Dave, asked me to call him later that week to see if he got in any female Congo tetras. I have known him for almost 18 years. I told him about the otos dieing and he said the next time I come up he will give me some new otos. Pretty cool!!! I still have 4 otos left - 3 from the first batch and one from the bad batch. I have absolutely no algae in the tank even on the glass so I am going to have to get some zucchinni in there for them. I am just afraid the flagfish will eat it before them.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

phorty said:


> Otos never live for me either. Maybe it's our water.


These fish are weird little guys. I bought 11 oto's about 8 months ago.... I can still count 10 of the 11 and I don't add any extra food. They are all lively and very chubby. They're housed with 4 adult platinum angels, and that's it. They seem very very sensitive to changes in water...

Nice tank though!


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## phorty (Aug 2, 2010)

Is this tank still up and running?


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