# i think it's time - i got the clove oil, now what?



## CamMTX (Jun 12, 2010)

Don't feel bad I have had to do it twice with a couple of plecos. Get a ziplock bag and fill it with water from the tank and put him in there. Make sure it's a 100% clove oil!! If it is not it might not work the best. Once he is in there put a capfull maybe 1.5 caps in the bag and seal it, mix it around and just watch to make sure he stops breathing. Just to make sure I would leave him in there for an hour so that they had no chance of waking back up Sorry for your loss I know it sucks! Once he is knocked out you could also put him in the freezer to cover all your bases. Hope this helps.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

thanks.

the clove oil doesn't say it is not 100% clove oil. it sure smells like cloves. it is life brand (from shoppers drug mart in canada) and just says "clove oil bp"

i think i will get my husband to help me with this when he is done working.

thanks again.


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## andrews02r (Nov 16, 2010)

Sorry to hear.

I've read that it's best to use clove oil as a sedative and once the fish is asleep, add vodka (about 25% of the the holding container's volume) as the final step. I guess freezing accomplishes the same thing...


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## NStarr (Jun 3, 2011)

Yeah. Use the clove oil and when he stops moving, freeze him.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

thanks guys.

i just checked on him and he was laying on his side in the tank. i hate to disturb him because i don't want to make him expend more energy than he needs to.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Freezing or vodka is not how to do it, I'm pretty sure it burns the gills. I didn't use vodka, what I do is get a small container with a small amount of water, and shake it. How to Kill a Sick Fish Humanely | eHow.com

I just had to euthanize my girl last Tuesday. At an OD level, it kills the fish over the course of 30-60 minutes, it's already sleeping. Then wait more and once the gills aren't red --respirating--, bury him.

I'm real sorry about your little guy :icon_frow


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## NStarr (Jun 3, 2011)

I'd think that shaking it would be a much more violent death, hard on the fish and on the owner. 

I'd think that once you put them to sleep, you'd want to quickly decapitate them. That would make it quick and they would experience no pain.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

No, you don't shake the fish. You add the oil into the water, shake it so the oil disperses well, then add the oil-water to the fish's water. Then you repeat a few more times. Sorry for that...


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## LCP136 (Aug 1, 2011)

Clove oil knocks them out pretty quick. I had to use it with a couple seahorses and it works fast.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

thank you.

i just can't bring myself to decapitate him, no matter how humane it is, i just can't do it. 

if i add the clove oil to the water with my fish (he is in a 20 gallon tank with no other fish) what will happen to the plants/sand/soil? 

i plant to put some new fish in there in a week or so and i don't want to harm the new fish. 

maybe i will take him out and put him in the container i use to transport fish. then add the water and clove oil to that. will that be ok?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Yes, put him in the transport container, or a tupperware container, and add clove oil. Not in your main tank.


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## Ryan10517 (Jun 7, 2010)

I've used ice water a couple of times. They are usually dead within 30 seconds.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

thanks.

i will put him in the container soon.  he is just laying there 

i don't think i will do the ice water. i think the clove oil is the best option for me. thanks, though.


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## NStarr (Jun 3, 2011)

The clove oil is going to act as a sedative though, you're going to need to have him dead.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

from the reading i have done an overdose of the sedative will make him dead


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

I usually put the fish in a small container of tank water. Then, I draw up some clove oil into a small syringe. I then gently squirt the oil into the container with the fish. Then, I withdraw some of the water/ oil into the syringe again, and add it back. Doing this helps to mix the oil into the water, or so I've found. Just do it gently so as not to stress the fish. After the fish has been perfectly still for a few minutes, I put it in the freezer. This works very well.

Sorry for your loss.



mindy said:


> from the reading i have done an overdose of the sedative will make him dead


I think this very well may be true. But I still use the freezer, just to be sure. I figure it can't hurt.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

I still think the easiest way and best way for the fish is in the freezer.
Fish goes to sleep (hibernates) when water gets cold, so it doesn't feel a thing.
Its actually the same as with the clove oil but easier and out of sight.


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## CamMTX (Jun 12, 2010)

I feel that freezing alone is not the most humane way to die and sort of cruel. The fish will soon develop ice crystal fragments throughout its tissues and would therefore endure excruciating pain. Like I stated before, I believe the best route is an overdose with clove. Once the fish has been sedated for about 5 minutes then into the freezer they go just to make sure. Clove oil sedation will prevent the fish from feeling any pain. (And a prolonged overdose exposure will ultimately cause death)


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

Does the clove oil actually kill them sometimes? Meaning, if someone needs to transport a really HUGE fish (like adult pacus, big arowanas, etc...) in modest sized containers, would a small amount of clove oil sedate them so they don't bash themselves around or "hyperventilate" themselves into CO2 poisoning/O2 depletion?




defiesexistence said:


> Freezing or vodka is not how to do it, I'm pretty sure it burns the gills. I didn't use vodka, what I do is get a small container with a small amount of water, and shake it.





defiesexistence said:


> No, you don't shake the fish. You add the oil into the water, shake it so the oil disperses well, then add the oil-water to the fish's water. Then you repeat a few more times. Sorry for that...


...whew thanks for clarifying that. I didn't click the link you gave, I was too preoccupied thinking "how in the hell is a shaking-death less painful than freezing?"


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## Miira (Feb 15, 2011)

I couldn't find clove oil, so I use Anbesol, followed by alcohol(once they pass out).


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

nalu86 said:


> I still think the easiest way and best way for the fish is in the freezer.
> Fish goes to sleep (hibernates) when water gets cold, so it doesn't feel a thing.
> Its actually the same as with the clove oil but easier and out of sight.


 from what i have read only coldwater fish such as goldfish have a hibernation period, tropicals do not so it is inhumane to freeze a tropical fish to death. (unless your using the shock method)


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

I am also not for freezing fish... The physics don't make sense, there is no way your freezer will be able to make your fish pass out and die in a very short amount of time, he would spend atleast 30 minutes in ever decreasing temperatures in a high level of stress.
I'm not sure that my method was the most humane either but I had a fish dying of a wasting disease and for three days he would randomly float up to the surface and then sink to the substrate on his side, not breathing, only to randomly dart around and then stop moving again... 
I couldn't bare to see it anymore so I netted him as quickly as possible, layed him on the rounded corner of the counter top while still in the net, and smashed him around his neck/head area with the bottom of a glass bottle... =[
It sounds incredibly gruesome but I'm confident that he died instantly as his spinal cord would have been severed, as well as his brain completely crushed, that combined with how quickly I performed the task, I feel ensured he had only a brief period of thinking "why am I out of water?" before his consciousness left him. 
Sometimes the best way isn't always the prettiest. I'm sorry for the loss of your fish.


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## btimmer92 (Mar 12, 2011)

Ryan10517 said:


> I've used ice water a couple of times. They are usually dead within 30 seconds.


I am pretty sure that is an extremely inhumane way to kill your fish. They probably felt a huge amount of pain.

Just put clove oil in and after it falls asleep, pour a lot more clove oil in, and put it in the freezer. That will ensure it doesn't wake back up, and it will definitely die.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

i haven't gotten the courage to do it yet.  a friend of mine offered to do it for me. i may sedate the fish and then get my friend to severe his spinal cord somehow. 

thanks for all your help.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

i dont know why i can beat a blue fish to death with a baseball bat while im fishing but i cant kill a neon with a bent spine.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Mindy, you are absolutely correct: most any sedative in severe OD levels will be enough to kill anything. When I put my girl down last week, I procrastinated against it until late afternoon, and then beat myself up afterwards because it was selfish of me to prolong her pain. I did the first round, went outside in the yard, did the second round, busied myself with something else, and finally she was down. I made myself not watch. It was more a relief to know that she was no longer hurting than a sad affair. Guess what I'm trying to say is the sooner it's done, the sooner it's over with. It certainly is hard, and I can say if I were a crier there would be a lot of salt water in her container.

redfishsc, that was a hilariously tenebrious wording I used. I got a dark chuckle. Sorry about that. Yes, clove oil OD will kill fish. Fish will be stressed during transport no matter what, and I'm not sure of the effect of clove oil on O2/CO2 levels, if there is any. (cue: airstone) People often anesthethize fish for transport, especially over long distances overseas. I am no vet though. Just read the Manual of Fish Health too many times through. I recommend reading it.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

i know i am being selfish, my feelings over him hurting, but i feel like maybe, possibly, am i doing it too early if i do it now? i just don't know! i hate this.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Rest assured, I'd never call someone selfish, but I was (I thought my fish was going to miraculously recover because she was looking better, but she was really sickly to begin with. And then she got even worse than before). Did you say he was lying on his side whenever he wasn't trying to swim? Is his breathing irregular and weak? Does he hold his fins limply? If so, it sounds like the right time to me.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

mindy said:


> i know i am being selfish, my feelings over him hurting, but i feel like maybe, possibly, am i doing it too early if i do it now? i just don't know! i hate this.


I doubt your fish would recover if it truly has a tumor, its not like we can give it chemotherapy or anything, in my humble opinion you would not be doing anything too early if you are confident its disease will result in long term suffering with no chance of recovery.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Flash freezing with dry ice or liquid nitrogen is instantaneous.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

I feel for your fishes, i just went through the same situation as you but mine headed a different direction. While i went to walgreens for some clove oil my aunt came over and started cleaning and she threw out the water along with the fishes from the container i was keeping them in. Poor fish..


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

I've had to do this twice now and the procedure I learned from someone else who has been fishkeeping for many years is clove oil in a baggie, shake to mix it really well then place the fish in it. Once the fish is knocked out then ice the bag and that is more or less it. Now she advises decap is the best method but I am not going to do that so..


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## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

how do we really know that clove oil isnt painful? I think the fastest way to kill a fish is put him in a net and whack him on the ground. it may be crude and heartless but it IS very effective and pain free.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

We know clove oil doesn't hurt because it works by the substance eugenol, which was used to numb toothaches back in the day. It's pretty time-tested, and all it does at worst is prickle slightly before it numbs the mouth, which is a very sensitive area, like the gills of a fish. I can't imagine the fish feeling any different.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

thanks guy.

i didn't mean that you called me selfish, defiesexistance, i was calling myself selfish because i know i am being selfish. i am not doing it because i don't want to deal with it  but, i should do it because he isn't doing well at all.

audioaficionado, liquid nitrogen or dry ice are not exactly easy to find items in a small rural town of 1200 in the middle of nowhere in newfoundland.


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## firefiend (Sep 3, 2009)

I'm sorry about your fish, Mindy. Be strong and hang tough. My wife and I were in a similar situation over a cat she had adopted in grade school... 18 years later the cat's health was poor and it was confined to a bathroom because it would pee all over. I kept telling her to put it down because just couldn't bring herself to let him go.

Finally I took her to the bathroom (which I had to clean) opened it, showed her the condition of the cat and it the bathroom after 1 day and asked her, "In this condition, is Casper still a pet?"

Sometimes the best thing you can do for your pets is let them go.

You can do it. 

~Len


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## littlebittyfish (Feb 13, 2011)

mindy said:


> i know i am being selfish, my feelings over him hurting, but i feel like maybe, possibly, am i doing it too early if i do it now? i just don't know! i hate this.


I don't think it is selfish...If he has no chance of survival..Tumors usually don't get better..This thread has helped me figure out the best way to euthanize as well...My betta who is nearly 3 years old looks to be growing a tumor on his side...It is still pretty small in size, but I now know how to humanely euthanize when the time comes... :frown:


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## NStarr (Jun 3, 2011)

Before we do anything to your fish, do you think that you could cut the tumor out? Sort of like surgery...


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## plusewolf (Jul 25, 2011)

here's a thought just flush him down the John, that way u don't have to see him die


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## firefiend (Sep 3, 2009)

plusewolf said:


> here's a thought just flush him down the John, that way u don't have to see him die


and let the animal suffer while enveloped in raw sewage?


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

firefiend said:


> I'm sorry about your fish, Mindy. Be strong and hang tough. My wife and I were in a similar situation over a cat she had adopted in grade school... 18 years later the cat's health was poor and it was confined to a bathroom because it would pee all over. I kept telling her to put it down because just couldn't bring herself to let him go.
> 
> Finally I took her to the bathroom (which I had to clean) opened it, showed her the condition of the cat and it the bathroom after 1 day and asked her, "In this condition, is Casper still a pet?"
> 
> ...


thank you. 

i used to be involved with animal rescue and i know that i really have to take the quality of life of the pet into consideration before my feelings, it is sometimes easier said than done.  i just feel like maybe i was jumping the gun. i don't want to euth before i needed to. but, like everyone has said, it seems like his symptoms mean that it is time. 

thank you for your post.

(i am going to be dealing with this much more in the coming years, i have 2 senior cats - one with crf - and 2 senior ferrets with adrenal cancer.  )


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

NStarr said:


> Before we do anything to your fish, do you think that you could cut the tumor out? Sort of like surgery...


i already had that suggested in my other thread about his tumor. i can't do it. i can't bring myself to. also, i would be too worried about infection afterwards.

his tumor almost seems to be bigger by the day.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

plusewolf said:


> here's a thought just flush him down the John, that way u don't have to see him die


that seems to me to be the most selfish thing i could do.  i want him not to have pain and, yes, i don't want to watch him die, but i want him to go without suffering.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

no matter how painless and instantaneous it is for the fish it will still be painful for you. I know the feeling, it sucks when a pet you love dies.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

i just put him in the smaller container and added the first few drops of clove oil mixed with water. it was horrible. i feel like complete crap.  i really hope this was the right thing to do.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

When I used clove oil my betta thrashed terribly - I felt awful and vowed not to use it again.

This sounds gruesome but I use the garbage disposal now. It is VERY fast and the fish is dead in a second.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

wendyjo said:


> When I used clove oil my betta thrashed terribly - I felt awful and vowed not to use it again.
> 
> This sounds gruesome but I use the garbage disposal now. It is VERY fast and the fish is dead in a second.


ew...I think I would prefer baggy and a car would be a bit better. I would still be upset though.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

he didn't thrash, really, but he did flare out his gills a few times and it made me cry. i hate it. i feel so horrible.


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

I went rather heavy on the clove oil, not a whole bottle worth but it was a lot more than a few drops. The key was getting enough to anesthetize him quickly then come right into that with a lot of ice, enough to do the rest. It sucked big time but I could not see the fish continue to suffer so on one end of the argument you don't want to prolong things causing your pet to suffer more every day in order to spare your feelings. I know it sucks but pet first, feelings second. 

And the garbage disposal.. good grief you have to be kidding.


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## jerry1 (Oct 13, 2010)

wendyjo said:


> When I used clove oil my betta thrashed terribly - I felt awful and vowed not to use it again.
> 
> This sounds gruesome but I use the garbage disposal now. It is VERY fast and the fish is dead in a second.


And there it is. This is what I do but haven't seen it mentioned. I open the rubber mouth in the sink so the fish doesn't get stuck. Pour it in and within 1/10 of a second, it is over to say the least. 

Putting down an animal in your care should never be a trivial matter but all things considered, this process is done well before the fish even knows it is coming.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

jerry1 said:


> Putting down an animal in your care should never be a trivial matter but all things considered, this process is done well before the fish even knows it is coming.


A hammer or cleaver method is in the same ballpark. Ironic that the seemingly kindest, quickest methods are the most distasteful to us. If you can stomach the process, quick and brutal is probably the kindest way for them to go.

...though I haven't read much on dosing food with painkillers. That might be worth a try next time.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

how about put the fish in a baggy of water, take him outside lay him on the ground and get a shovel and line it up with his neck and ..., after its over just push the dirt out of the way and let him and the baggy be buried right there.


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## NStarr (Jun 3, 2011)

I was thinking though, could it be possible to dose clover oil and then slowly and carefully cut the tumor out. Afterwards, I'd put some Bettafix (Melafix for Bettas) in the tank and hope for the best.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

kevmo911 said:


> ...though I haven't read much on dosing food with painkillers. That might be worth a try next time.


 NOOO!!!! overdose on painkillers is a really really bad way to die. Its very hard to do corectly.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

kevmo911 said:


> A hammer or cleaver method is in the same ballpark. Ironic that the seemingly kindest, quickest methods are the most distasteful to us. If you can stomach the process, quick and brutal is probably the kindest way for them to go.


I'd be worried about unsteady hands if I used a hammer or knife, and I guess letting the disposal do the dirty work also lets me off the hook as far as having to actually witness the act  Actually the disposal was a method recommended to me when I had a sick hermit crab that was obviously not going to get better. No way I could have used a hammer of knife on a hermit crab.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

mindy said:


> he didn't thrash, really, but he did flare out his gills a few times and it made me cry. i hate it. i feel so horrible.


Mindy, I am with you on this. I cried for a long while after putting down my first fish and still cry when I have to do it. It's not easy, but you are doing it because you don't want to see them suffer and you've got to remind yourself that you are doing it for the right reasons.

Clove oil was the easiest method for me. I've done a few methods and this one was the least traumatizing for me and the fish just seemed to slowly fall asleep after adding it a little bit at a time. Make sure to thoroughly clean the container after, you don't want to have residue in it.

I feel for you, it's the hardest thing to do when you love your pets, but you are doing it because you love them.

Sorry about the loss of your fish.


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## LCP136 (Aug 1, 2011)

Sorry for the loss. It pained me every time I had to do it with a seahorse, which was 3 over the years I had them. You did the right thing.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

It's always hards to loose any animal we keep. Sorry you have to deal with it but, it is part of our job as pet owners.

I've simple freeze them in a bag with tank water. I'm pretty sure fish react to low temps the same as mammals do. Metabolic rate goes down, comma, organs shut down, death. If you've ever been in very cold water you get numb very fast.

It was so much easier back when I was breeding fish, I had a big Oscar that handled this for me. Life in the food chain isn't pretty.


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## mindy (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks guys. I know it was the best thing for him. He lived with us for only 8 months 

His tank is in my bedroom so I am reminded that he is not there anymore quite often.  I have caught myself looking for him a fee times now.


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## TexasCichlid (Jul 12, 2011)

You did the right thing. Just for future reference if this thread is searched out in the future -- always use more clove oil than you think you need. I noticed some of the previous posters said they had a fish thrash in the mixture. They did not use enough clove oil. If you use enough clove oil, the sedative properties will immediately disable the fish and it will pass on in less than a minute -- especially if the fish is already sick/lethargic.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't know that you can compare fish to mammals when talking about freezing them, as mammals are warm blooded and able to regulate their body temps, and fish are not.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

wendyjo said:


> I don't know that you can compare fish to mammals when talking about freezing them, as mammals are warm blooded and able to regulate their body temps, and fish are not.


Yes you can (for tropical fish in particular). Hypothermia causes everything to slow down and eventually stop. By the time the fish actually has ice crystals forming in its tissues, it's long past living or any neural activity that could feel pain. 

@ mindy

The main person suffering here is you. You can't keep beating yourself up over things you have no control over. Your fish had a good life with you and was loved up to the very last moment. You have nothing to regret. You did the best you could. 

I just lost one of my cats to cancer. We spoiled him rotten while he was going through the dying process over several months. When he finally died in my arms with the whole family surrounding him, he knew he was loved and he got comfort from that. We have no regretts except that he died too young at 14 years old.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

audioaficionado said:


> Yes you can (for tropical fish in particular). Hypothermia causes everything to slow down and eventually stop. By the time the fish actually has ice crystals forming in its tissues, it's long past living or any neural activity that could feel pain.


 this is incorect. the freezer method should only be used in cold water fish because they will go into a hybernation period before they die. 
hypothermia is not a good way to die. have you ever jumped into ice cold water before? It actually hurts. Takes your breath away. Thats a painfull way to die.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

jreich said:


> this is incorect. the freezer method should only be used in cold water fish because they will go into a hybernation period before they die.
> hypothermia is not a good way to die. have you ever jumped into ice cold water before? It actually hurts. Takes your breath away. Thats a painfull way to die.


Actually hypothermia is one of the easier ways to die. People start to feel quite warm and sleepy before they lapse into unconsciousness. Search and rescue often find lost people in a state of undress and evidence they were in a profound state of confusion before they died. 

Who said you plunge any fish into ice water. You put the fish in a bag of tank water and then put it in the freezer. Then it slowly drops in temperature until it reaches freezing. Only then will ice start to form. The fish will already be dead by then.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

uhh not really, only stage 1 do you feel warm and fuzzy... Sounds almost as bad as drowning to me.
"Hypothermia is a condition in which an organism's temperature drops below that required for normal metabolism and bodily functions. In warm-blooded animals, core body temperature is maintained near a constant level through biologic homeostasis. But when the body is exposed to cold its internal mechanisms may be unable to replenish the heat that is being lost to the organism's surroundings.
Hypothermia is the opposite of hyperthermia, the condition which causes heat exhaustion and heat stroke.

Symptoms

Normal body temperature in humans is 37°C (98.6°F). Hypothermia can be divided in three stages of severity.

In stage 1, body temperature drops by 1-2°C (1.8-3.6°F) below normal temperature (35-36°C or 95-96.8°F). Mild to strong shivering occurs.[1][2] The victim is unable to perform complex tasks with the hands; the hands become numb. Blood vessels in the outer extremities constrict, lessening heat loss to the outside air. Breathing becomes quick and shallow. Goose bumps form, raising body hair on end in an attempt to create an insulating layer of air around the body (which is of limited use in humans due to lack of sufficient hair, but useful in other species). Often, a person will experience a warm sensation, as if they have recovered, but they are in fact heading into Stage 2. Another test to see if the person is entering stage 2 is if they are unable to touch their thumb with their little finger; this is the first stage of muscles not working.

In stage 2, body temperature drops by 2-4°C (3.8-7.6°F). Shivering becomes more violent. Muscle mis-coordination becomes apparent.[1][2][3] Movements are slow and labored, accompanied by a stumbling pace and mild confusion, although the victim may appear alert. Surface blood vessels contract further as the body focuses its remaining resources on keeping the vital organs warm. The victim becomes pale. Lips, ears, fingers and toes may become blue.

In stage 3, body temperature drops below approximately 32 °C (89.6 °F). Shivering usually stops.[1][2] Difficulty speaking, sluggish thinking, and amnesia start to appear; inability to use hands and stumbling is also usually present. Cellular metabolic processes shut down. Below 30 °C (86.0 °F), the exposed skin becomes blue and puffy, muscle coordination becomes very poor, walking becomes almost impossible, and the victim exhibits incoherent/irrational behavior including terminal burrowing or even a stupor. Pulse and respiration rates decrease significantly but fast heart rates (ventricular tachycardia, atrial fibrillation) can occur. Major organs fail. Clinical death occurs. Because of decreased cellular activity in stage 3 hypothermia, the body will actually take longer to undergo brain death." 
how long does it take for a little tub of water to freeze in your freezer? im sure its not exactly a quick process. The whole point is to kill the fish quickly and without pain.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

There is no "nice" way to die. 

Compared to life in the food chain, slowly freezing (ie. fish in bag of normal temp tank water, put into freezer) is much less traumatic than being gobbled up by by an Oscar..

While I truly don't mean to offend, little fish are food for bigger fish, and so on, and so on, right up apex predators.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

jreich said:


> uhh not really, only stage 1 do you feel warm and fuzzy... Sounds almost as bad as drowning to me.
> "Hypothermia is a condition in which an organism's temperature drops below that required for normal metabolism and bodily functions. In warm-blooded animals, core body temperature is maintained near a constant level through biologic homeostasis. But when the body is exposed to cold its internal mechanisms may be unable to replenish the heat that is being lost to the organism's surroundings.
> Hypothermia is the opposite of hyperthermia, the condition which causes heat exhaustion and heat stroke.
> 
> ...


You can't compere mammals (human) with fish. Fish is cold blooded!!
If no matter what fish lives outside and the temp drops couple degrees under the normal temp for them, they will go in hibernation, when the temp drops lower, the fish will slowly go to sleep the fish will die. This is what happens when the temp drops slowly like in the wild. 
But when you put a pint of tank water with a fish in the freezer, this whole procedure goes a lot faster.

Tank water 80F put it in the freezer.
after 1 min temp drops to 78F, fish acts still normal
after 2 min temp drops to 74F, fish starts hibernating slowly 
after 3 min temp drops to 68F, fish is in hibernation mode, goes to sleep.
after 4 min temp drops to 62F, fish is sleeping/ dying 
after 5 min temp drops to 55F, fish is sleeping/ dead

so what is inhumain about this? Takes 5 min and fish didn't feel a thing!

If you guys think this is inhumain, stop eating fish than, when fish get cough, they just trow them in big containers on top of each other with crunched ice on top of them.... fish get ice burned alive...

Its worse when you have a sick fish that wont make it to keep it alive. 
If you like to make a whole funeral about euthanizing a fish, go ahaid, but I don't have time for that.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

tropical fish do not have a "hibernation mode" only cold water fish as i have previously stated. And you must have 1 kick butt freezer to drop the temp on a cup of water 23 degrees in 5 mins.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Freezing a tropical fish in your freezer over a 10-20 minute period is relatively painless no matter how much people might want to argue about it.

Just drop it in LN2 or a dry ice slurry. Instantaneous!

Clap it between two bricks. Same result.

However freezing makes for a nicer funeral service viewing.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Just drop it in LN2 or a dry ice slurry. Instantaneous!
> 
> Clap it between two bricks. Same result.


There's an Idea!!! roud:

One could keep the fish in question in a cryno-state for future generations when fish medical knowledge is at a higher level. Not unlike John Spartan & Simon Phoenix of "Demolition Man", minus the the car chases, firefights, bad 60's commercial music and overall bad acting.

:icon_mrgr


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

jreich said:


> tropical fish do not have a "hibernation mode" only cold water fish as i have previously stated. And you must have 1 kick butt freezer to drop the temp on a cup of water 23 degrees in 5 mins.



Is the distinction between tropical and coldwater fish really this sharp? I'm sure some fish go into hibernation mode of some sort, and some fish can survive freezing. 

The mummichog (Fundulus heteroclitus) lives on the eastern seaboard of the US in some extremely HOT water in the summer, but I am told by a marine biologist in North Carolina that they can survive freezing. 


Also, it would seem to me that the lack of a hibernation mode would suggest that "tropical" fish would die long, long before the coldwater fish did, and long, long before the ice started forming. 



Since fish are cold-blooded, there is a distinctive chance that they really don't suffer as the temp is SLOWLY dropped. There is the story of the frog-in-the-kettle, where the kettle temp is slowly raised to boiling. The urban legend (which I tend to believe is true) is that the frog will not detect the heat increase as uncomfortable since his body temp also increases along with it, and he will die (long before boiling).


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