# Help me finally defeat BBA



## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

My tanks have been plagued with BBA to one extent or another for nearly 10 years now, and I am over it!

Please help me figure out how to eradicate it once and for all!

So, everything I've read indicates BBA is a CO2 problem, so I will try to give all the relevant info.

Tank is a 40br, wide and shallow. That means that surface disruption is a given, and the amount of surface disruption can change pretty dramatically with just a half inch of evaporation. I am hoping to install an auto top off to deal with this.

I use an inline diffuser that creates a pretty fine mist. Plants grow well, pearl, etc. I have never run the CO2 up all the way until the fish gasp, it has always seemed adequate when the clouds of mist are present. Is it possible I am still running it too low?

Finally, the KH in my tank is very low, up to 1 1/2dKH. I have no idea how low the pH drops when the CO2 is running, but it has never bothered any fish. Could this affect BBA growth.

Any input? I don't mind spot dosing the BBA with H2O2 until it is dead, but I would like to know it won't just bounce back again for once.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Any pics to see the actual damage you got?


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Pictures of the tank?

If you have healthy plants that grow well and still have bba this is likely due to not enough plant mass.

Start off by ensuring you are not overfeeding and that the tank is kept clean, same with filters.
Ensure you are doing large weekly WC. Avoid overstocking the tank.

As for plants, you need to introduce some.extremely fast growing, this should shut down the bba. I use floating plants to do this until my tank has mature with enough plant mass.

Duckweed, frogbit, water lettuce, red root floaters. They are all great, but there is others. These plants will also reduce your light which for now is a good thing and will help slow down the growth of algae.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Wow! 10 years. I respect your patience. I thought my 2 year battle was already long. 

You never once mentioned your light, but yet it's likely one of the biggest culprits. Lately some of us have been touting the phrase, "too much light for the CO2". You need to find that balance where a plant isn't pushed by the light levels to where it's growing so fast that it has a carbon deficiency (or any other nutrient deficiency for that matter because you didn't mention that you fertilize). That's where the plant suffers and the BBA takes hold. You have a cushion for more CO2 so why not push it up some more? Sure you think you have enough CO2 because you're getting nice growth, but it's not enough because it's not fully healthy growth. You possibly have even more cushion than you think since it sounds like you're agitating the surface like you're supposed to. If you're not willing to use it, then look into lowering the light to get your balance. Also identifying the difference in gas exchange due surface disruption from your lowering water levels is good. You want to keep your gas levels as consistent as possible, so if you can't constantly top off manually, I suppose an ATO couldn't hurt. Additionally, you may also want to look into BBA munching critters such as shrimps and true Siamese algae eaters (these may be a little hard to get due to the confusing lookalikes out there, but if you manage to get the right ones, it's worth it) to help with the maintenance. I'd like to think they at least put some of the nails on the coffin (and keeping them there) for my BBA.


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## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

IIRC, Tom Barr has suggested that there's a CO2 "window" where BBA thrives. It doesn't like low CO2 or high CO2. 

So, yeah...try boosting your CO2. Assuming you don't want to go low-tech instead. ;-)


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

philipraposo1982 said:


> Pictures of the tank?
> 
> If you have healthy plants that grow well and still have bba this is likely due to not enough plant mass.
> 
> ...


Plant mass is very low right now, I just rebooted the tank. Which means that right now the substrate, filter and water column are all sparkling clean. It is very true though that I have neglected the cleanliness of the tank and filter. I'll have to work on that.



ipkiss said:


> Wow! 10 years. I respect your patience. I thought my 2 year battle was already long.
> 
> You never once mentioned your light, but yet it's likely one of the biggest culprits. Lately some of us have been touting the phrase, "too much light for the CO2". You need to find that balance where a plant isn't pushed by the light levels to where it's growing so fast that it has a carbon deficiency (or any other nutrient deficiency for that matter because you didn't mention that you fertilize). That's where the plant suffers and the BBA takes hold. You have a cushion for more CO2 so why not push it up some more? Sure you think you have enough CO2 because you're getting nice growth, but it's not enough because it's not fully healthy growth. You possibly have even more cushion than you think since it sounds like you're agitating the surface like you're supposed to. If you're not willing to use it, then look into lowering the light to get your balance. Also identifying the difference in gas exchange due surface disruption from your lowering water levels is good. You want to keep your gas levels as consistent as possible, so if you can't constantly top off manually, I suppose an ATO couldn't hurt. Additionally, you may also want to look into BBA munching critters such as shrimps and true Siamese algae eaters (these may be a little hard to get due to the confusing lookalikes out there, but if you manage to get the right ones, it's worth it) to help with the maintenance. I'd like to think they at least put some of the nails on the coffin (and keeping them there) for my BBA.


Most of those years were not a very active battle. I discovered a planted tank needs next to no maintenance if you keep the CO2 bottle full, throw in some ferts and don't mind algae:hihi:
For that same reason, I keep my lighting pretty moderate. Too high=too many headaches.

I'll try bumping the CO2 a bit and see if it helps.

As for the clean up crew, I may try Stiphodon gobies again. People claim they don't like high tech tanks, but although I seem to always kill them, the cause of death never seems to correlate to pH or CO2. Though I am starting to think they are just cursed:crying:

SAE get too big for a 40 IME, and shrimp and cichlids don't play well so my options are pretty limited.



randym said:


> IIRC, Tom Barr has suggested that there's a CO2 "window" where BBA thrives. It doesn't like low CO2 or high CO2.
> 
> So, yeah...try boosting your CO2. Assuming you don't want to go low-tech instead. ;-)


No thanks on the low tech. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt:smile2:

I guess I better give the bubble count a bump.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Just an FYI, you can provide perfect growing conditions and still have algae with very low plant mass.

At one point I was overdosing co2 by a ton (didn't realize it). Cow concentration was approx 130-150ppm. Bba still grew. No more than a week or two after introducing floaters and letting the surface become covered my bba and gsa stopped dead in its tracks. As my plant mass in my tank grows I will slowly remove more and more floaters to let the light back in. With the goal of not needing any floaters once established.

I did a full rescape after my first year and this has been my experience.


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

Minsc, Co2...co2...co2...


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

philipraposo1982 said:


> Just an FYI, you can provide perfect growing conditions and still have algae with very low plant mass.
> 
> At one point I was overdosing co2 by a ton (didn't realize it). Cow concentration was approx 130-150ppm. Bba still grew. No more than a week or two after introducing floaters and letting the surface become covered my bba and gsa stopped dead in its tracks. As my plant mass in my tank grows I will slowly remove more and more floaters to let the light back in. With the goal of not needing any floaters once established.
> 
> I did a full rescape after my first year and this has been my experience.


Thanks for sharing, that is really interesting. I have a bunch of limnophila aromatica floating around the tank right now. It had been destined for the compost, but I think I will keep it around.



herns said:


> Minsc, Co2...co2...co2...


I feel like you are trying to tell me something, but I just don't quite get it:wink2:


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

How much BBA are we talking here? pics would help a lot

I agree that philipraposo that CO2 does not magically disappear given enough CO2... Rather it is an issue with not having the healthy plant mass to out-compete the algae. This is true for prettymuch any type of algae.


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

The much requested photos. These rocks were soaked in H2O2 just a couple weeks ago.

On the up side, some of the BBA is taking on a reddish tint, which IME means it is unhappy and I'm getting close.

Yeah, I know plant density is terrible, but I have done this before, and know it is just a matter of time.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

What exactly are you using for fertilizers? How often? How Much etc?


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

Ei. 1/2tsp KNO3, 1/16 tsp CSM+B and P2SO4 each, thrice weekly. Trying to get back into the habit of regular water changes.

When 2/3 of the tank was Limnophila and Crypt forest, those plants took everything I could throw at them and kept the water column sparkling. That is what kept the tank alive for years of neglect as life kept me too busy.

Now that I want the tank to be pretty again, I'm having to relearn some of this stuff.


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

I just planted my tank, i got BBA on my driftwood within a week of me planting. Bought some Florida Flagfish to help combate the algae, they dont really like BBA because there are other algaes in that tank that they munch on. I got tired of it after 3 weeks, so I used H2O2, 25ml in a 55g and sprayed it all over my driftwood that had BBA, that was yesterday, today i see no BBA in those areas, the stuff that remains is a whitish color.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I read recently that bba likes low phosphate environments. Try doubling it for a while. Is your green algae spot algae?


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

BruceF said:


> I read recently that bba likes low phosphate environments. Try doubling it for a while. Is your green algae spot algae?


You are right on, in addition to a bunch of huge water changes, I actually stopped feeding the tank for a bit to let the plants take up any nutrients in the water. I wanted a fresh start for the rescape and new fish additions.

I was expecting to see a bit of green spot and BGA, but since my typical tank conditions aren't conducive to their growth, I wasn't worried about it.

I didn't realize I might be helping fuel the BBA too

Live and learn I guess.

So far my take away from this thread is that I am doing everything right for the most part, I just haven't been doing enough.

I guess if I want a nice tank, I'm just going to have to put in the maintenance, just like everyone else


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Here's one more idea about BBA to add to all of the confusion .

What exactly causes BBA? Part 2 - Bacterial imbalance | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Well give it a try. Let us know how it goes. 

Read the last paragraph starting on page 448. 
https://books.google.com/books?id=F...q=periphyton and fresh water red alga&f=false


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

You can't kill it off. You'll have to live with controlling most of it: Reduce light, increase CO2, Clean off what you see.


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

Jeff5614 said:


> Here's one more idea about BBA to add to all of the confusion .
> 
> What exactly causes BBA? Part 2 - Bacterial imbalance | UK Aquatic Plant Society





BruceF said:


> Well give it a try. Let us know how it goes.
> 
> Read the last paragraph starting on page 448.
> https://books.google.com/books?id=F...q=periphyton and fresh water red alga&f=false


Wow, you guys are bringing the knowledge!
I glanced over the links briefly, I'll have to go back and digest them in depth soon.

I really like the theory on how BBA relates to the bacterial activity of the tank. It makes a lot of sense from what I have seen.
The first step in defeating an enemy is to know them.

Bump:


mistergreen said:


> You can't kill it off. You'll have to live with controlling most of it: Reduce light, increase CO2, Clean off what you see.


I dislike this post:wink2:

Seriously though, thanks for the heads up. I will concentrate on containment, not eradication.


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