# 2 T5ho - Co2 = algae farm



## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Use only one bulb at a time, add Excel if possible (some plants melt in its presence), consider adding a layer of floating plants or window screen to further reduce light levels. Don't forget to fertilize too.

Some types of algae (most? all?) can be killed by spot treating with Excel, then manually removed. The main thing is making sure your plants can outcompete the algae going forward.

Sorry for muddling together the answers to your questions. If it's not clear, I'll be happy to try again.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

I agree with what Rainer has said. Also you can raise the light fixture. That's what I have did for my T5HO fixture and now I barely see any.


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## nicks7.1985 (Aug 11, 2010)

yup..Rainer pretty much said it al i think... i just set up a low light tank with t5HO fixtures and im only running one bulb out of the 4 that i have thats 54W over a 55gal tank. next week i am getting some frogbit(dwarf water lettuce i think) to provide a little bit of surface cover cuz it still looks really really bright. planting heavily usually helps right from the start too.


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## stevenjohn21 (May 23, 2012)

Try DIY Co2 it will work wonders !


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I did turn off one bulb several weeks ago, and the situation is improving a little. I also bought a bottle of excel and just started dosing. I've got blue green algae, here's a pic, which I've read requires different approaches to get rid of. Any advice? It's mainly on my driftwood, but it's slowly growing on my sand. I reduced feedings and hours of light about 2 weeks ago.


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## Unikorn (Jun 14, 2012)

which fixture do you have? I have the odyssea dual T5HO and can't figure out how to adjust the little handles or feet on the sides to raise the light a little. I'm having similar problems with algae as well on my 20 gallon.


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## GAT (Oct 24, 2011)

Try to add DIY CO2 along with what Rainer suggested


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Even one T5HO bulb can give you high light on a 29 gallon tank, unless it is either raised about 6 inches above the top of the tank, or has a layer of window screen over it to "filter" the light. This is assuming that the light has very good reflectors and a real HO ballast.

Blue green algae can show up when you are short on nitrates, so starting to dose nitrates could help get rid of it, and keep it away. But if you dose nitrates, you should also dose phosphates so that isn't limiting the plant growth too See the sticky on dosing schemes in the fertilizing forum.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Unikorn said:


> which fixture do you have? I have the odyssea dual T5HO and can't figure out how to adjust the little handles or feet on the sides to raise the light a little. I'm having similar problems with algae as well on my 20 gallon.


I have this fixture:
http://www.fishneedit.com/t5ho-24quot-2-lamp-aquarium-l.html
You can get a close up of the reflectors if you click to enlarge

I replaced blue actinic bulb that came with it with a 24 watt HO glolife bulb. I ran that plus a 65k 24 watt HO when I first got the fixture and green hair type algae took over, but I've only been running the glolife bulb for several weeks. I cleaned most of the algae off, and it seems to be under control. I have the handles to raise it off the tank, but they won't fit because of the glass top. 
Would raising it help? 
Are you running co2



Hoppy said:


> Even one T5HO bulb can give you high light on a 29 gallon tank, unless it is either raised about 6 inches above the top of the tank, or has a layer of window screen over it to "filter" the light. This is assuming that the light has very good reflectors and a real HO ballast.
> 
> Blue green algae can show up when you are short on nitrates, so starting to dose nitrates could help get rid of it, and keep it away. But if you dose nitrates, you should also dose phosphates so that isn't limiting the plant growth too See the sticky on dosing schemes in the fertilizing forum.


I can barely get a nitrate reading when I test if at all. That must be the problem. This tank has been established for a year, and I've always had nitrates around 5, 10 at the most, but I had fake plants. I thought my test kit was bad the last time I tested:smile:. 
Thanks, I'll check out the info


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

That you have a FishNeedIt light changes everything. Here is what the output of that light looks like:









At 16 inches distance from the bulbs you will get about 40 micromols of PAR, which is low medium light. That makes me believe that you just need to start dosing some fertilizers, NPK and trace elements, per the fertilizing forum sticky recommendations. I would dose about half the dosages recommended, at most. You do need to do weekly big water changes to avoid building up too much of any of the fertilizer elements in the water. It would help a lot to also set up a DIY CO2 system, like http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=178503


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## jstehman (Dec 13, 2010)

Raising the light will help. 

I did the same thing with my 90. Got into HO lights, and algae erupted.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> That you have a FishNeedIt light changes everything. Here is what the output of that light looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you familiar with that particular light? I bought it without really knowing what I needed at the time. 

Thanks for the info. Does that take into account that I'm running one light, or do you recommend I use both lights when following your instructions?


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

I just tested my nitrates again...not a trace.


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

Amy9 said:


> Are you familiar with that particular light? I bought it without really knowing what I needed at the time.
> 
> Thanks for the info. Does that take into account that I'm running one light, or do you recommend I use both lights when following your instructions?


The chart was for both bulbs, so run them both. Running only 1 bulb would be low light territory.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

One bulb alone would give you around 20 micromols, which is enough to grow many low light plants, especially when you use CO2. I think you just need to begin fertilizing.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> One bulb alone would give you around 20 micromols, which is enough to grow many low light plants, especially when you use CO2. I think you just need to begin fertilizing.


I just checked out your DIY CO2 link and wow, thanks. That's going to be my project for today. Main problem..I live at least 40 minutes from my nearest lfs. So I was wondering if I could use an internal filter from walmart. I can get everything else I need there. One more question, those check valves look different from any I've seen. Would the regular cylinder shaped ones work? Sorry for the lame questions:redface:.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Amy9 said:


> I just checked out your DIY CO2 link and wow, thanks. That's going to be my project for today. Main problem..I live at least 40 minutes from my nearest lfs. So I was wondering if I could use an internal filter from walmart. I can get everything else I need there. One more question, those check valves look different from any I've seen. Would the regular cylinder shaped ones work? Sorry for the lame questions:redface:.


Brass check valves work fine, but the cheap plastic check valves that LFS or Walmarts sell tend to disintegrate pretty quickly in a CO2 system. I PM'd you the Ebay link where I got the ones I'm using.

Any internal filter, that has a powerhead type pump and small filter chamber will work fine for this.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> Brass check valves work fine, but the cheap plastic check valves that LFS or Walmarts sell tend to disintegrate pretty quickly in a CO2 system. I PM'd you the Ebay link where I got the ones I'm using.
> 
> Any internal filter, that has a powerhead type pump and small filter chamber will work fine for this.


I was wrong earlier, walmart doesn't sell these types. 
How about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-A131-Ma...&sr=8-1&keywords=internal+filter+for+aquarium

Or, is there another method of diffusion that would work in my tank since it is only 29g? I like the idea of the internal filter but I'm concerned about the noise you mentioned in your link. My tank is in my bedroom.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

That Marina internal filter looks like it will work fine. To modify the rotor in the internal pump you need to be able to disassemble it, but I can't tell if you can from what I can find. I can't think of a way it could be made so you couldn't do that though.


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

Amy9 said:


> I was wrong earlier, walmart doesn't sell these types.
> How about this one?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-A131-Ma...&sr=8-1&keywords=internal+filter+for+aquarium
> ...


Fine mist air stone will work fine and be silent :0


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Trickerie said:


> Fine mist air stone will work fine and be silent :0


Just an air stone?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The problem with any "air stone" type device, or any other device that puts back pressure on the CO2 line, is that it raises the pressure of the CO2, so preventing leaks becomes much harder to do. My system just leaks out all of the CO2 when you kink the CO2 line - don't ask how I discovered that.

You can stop the noise at night by putting the internal filter on a timer that shuts off the filter when the lights go off, and turns it on an hour before the lights come on. That just lets the CO2 bubble up from the filter to the surface with no noise.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> The problem with any "air stone" type device, or any other device that puts back pressure on the CO2 line, is that it raises the pressure of the CO2, so preventing leaks becomes much harder to do. My system just leaks out all of the CO2 when you kink the CO2 line - don't ask how I discovered that.
> 
> You can stop the noise at night by putting the internal filter on a timer that shuts off the filter when the lights go off, and turns it on an hour before the lights come on. That just lets the CO2 bubble up from the filter to the surface with no noise.


Problem solved.


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## Shark-Bait (May 7, 2012)

I had problems with BGA, there were layers of it all over my gravel and driftwood. I did a blackout for 3 days and it hasn't been back since. A blackout won't help in the long run if you don't treat the underlying problem; low nitrates.


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## Blah4Life (Jan 13, 2012)

Run both bulbs and limit your photo period.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Blah4Life said:


> Run both bulbs and limit your photo period.


I don't have my CO2 setup going yet, so wouldn't running both bulbs make things even worse? I did raise my light about 4 inches, so when everything is up and running I'll use both bulbs.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Shark-Bait said:


> I had problems with BGA, there were layers of it all over my gravel and driftwood. I did a blackout for 3 days and it hasn't been back since. A blackout won't help in the long run if you don't treat the underlying problem; low nitrates.


I'm researching everything I can find on where to find KNO3 near here and how to dose it. It is somewhat confusing. I'd appreciate any input.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944 is a good source of information on dosing fertilizers.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944 is a good source of information on dosing fertilizers.


Thanks.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

I have just about everything I need to start my DIY setup. Estimated arrival of my check valves is Thursday, plus I can't get my additional bag of eco until Thursday, so I won't start my mixture until after the renovations. 
My main focus now is the underlying reason for the BGA. I just checked parameters: amm-0, trites-0, trates-0, ph-7.2. I've got to get my nitrates up. I checked out GLA and I'm going to order KN03, but what else should I get? I can also get dry ferts, I'm just not sure what to order.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

From http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944

20~40gal
50% H20 change-weekly
1/4 Tsp-*KN03* 3x a week
1/16 Tsp-*KH2P04* 3x aweek
1/2 Tsp-*GH booster* once a week 
5ml or 1/16Tsp-Trace 3x a week

Based on this, you need KNO3 (potassium nitrate), KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate, GH booste, which can be Greenleaf Aquarium's "The Ultimate GH Booster"
Trace mix, which can be CSM+B, Flourish Comprehensive, Microplex, or others.

Greenleaf Aquarium, a sponsor here, is only one of several places you can get these. One of our regular members here also sells these fertilizer powders - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168153


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> From http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944
> 
> 20~40gal
> 50% H20 change-weekly
> ...


Perfect..thank you.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> Brass check valves work fine, but the cheap plastic check valves that LFS or Walmarts sell tend to disintegrate pretty quickly in a CO2 system. I PM'd you the Ebay link where I got the ones I'm using.
> 
> Any internal filter, that has a powerhead type pump and small filter chamber will work fine for this.


I finally got to taking apart the submersable filter. It has a chamber for carbon and a sponge, but the intake is simply a grate type style, it's hard to see in the pic but it is on the right, the output is on the left and it swivels. I could put whatever diffusion piece I use in front of the input, which would force the CO2 to go through 1st, the diffuser, 2nd, a sponge directly behind the intake, then 3rd, the sponge inside the chamber, and lastly, forced out the output into the tank. I can't modify the propeller, the blades are far too thin. What do you think?


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

If you could find a hole of some sort to insert the tube into, that would be best. Perhaps take the intake apart, put a check valve inside, bring the hose through the grate and hook it up to the check valve.

I'd also take out the carbon and just use multiple sponge chambers


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Trickerie said:


> If you could find a hole of some sort to insert the tube into, that would be best. Perhaps take the intake apart, put a check valve inside, bring the hose through the grate and hook it up to the check valve.
> 
> I'd also take out the carbon and just use multiple sponge chambers


Good idea. I've already removed the carbon cartridge, I don't use it in any of my tanks.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I would remove the sponges too. Otherwise they will gradually load up with silt and affect how well the CO2 is distributed. I assume you already use a filter of some other kind.

If you aren't comfortable with modifying the little rotor, it will work, but not as good, with the rotor as is. I was very hesitant to modify mine and decided to do it because the filter was just sitting in a box anyway, so not much loss if I ruined it. But, the "toenail clipper" did a very nice, easy job on the rotor, and I found that the plastic it is made of is very tough and doesn't break easily.


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

I guess its a toss up between potential blockage and the sponges aiding in breaking up the co2 bubbles.


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## Shark-Bait (May 7, 2012)

Before you start dosing the KNO3, blackout your tank for 2-3 days, then do a large water change. That will eliminate most of the colonies. The bacteria that are left will be weakened and will be easily killed when nitrate levels rise.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> I would remove the sponges too. Otherwise they will gradually load up with silt and affect how well the CO2 is distributed. I assume you already use a filter of some other kind.
> 
> If you aren't comfortable with modifying the little rotor, it will work, but not as good, with the rotor as is. I was very hesitant to modify mine and decided to do it because the filter was just sitting in a box anyway, so not much loss if I ruined it. But, the "toenail clipper" did a very nice, easy job on the rotor, and I found that the plastic it is made of is very tough and doesn't break easily.


I wish I could, but the rotor blades are very thin and flexible, definately not typical. I've never seen one like it before. Here's a pic


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Amy9 said:


> I wish I could, but the rotor blades are very thin and flexible, definately not typical. I've never seen one like it before. Here's a pic


That rotor looks a lot like the one in my internal filter. The flexibility is good, it means the plastic is tough. You could safely cut down the middle of each blade with toenail clippers, then gently bend the two resulting blades in opposite directions so they don't line up exactly. That's how I did it, anyway. The blades cut easily and cleanly.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Shark-Bait said:


> Before you start dosing the KNO3, blackout your tank for 2-3 days, then do a large water change. That will eliminate most of the colonies. The bacteria that are left will be weakened and will be easily killed when nitrate levels rise.


That is a good idea, but I'm changing substrate, scrubbing everything down and completely rescaping in the next day or so, then I will be dosing KN03 and other ferts, so hopefully I can avoid a blackout.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> That rotor looks a lot like the one in my internal filter. The flexibility is good, it means the plastic is tough. You could safely cut down the middle of each blade with toenail clippers, then gently bend the two resulting blades in opposite directions so they don't line up exactly. That's how I did it, anyway. The blades cut easily and cleanly.


I don't see how you accomplished that, the blades are too small. I couldn't do it even with my super sharp, small clippers. I'm going to have to use it as is.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Do I rinse my eco complete? I'm getting varying opinions.


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## Trickerie (May 10, 2012)

Is probably just dump it all in. Even the juice. Get all the bacteria you can out of it


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## blackneon (Jan 25, 2012)

Hi hoppy, im just wonderin if my hagen glo dual t5ho fixture is good or fair reflectors. Its currently hanging 7inches from the top of the tank. Its 25gal tank. Dosing ei 20-40gal with rex grigg reactor. Am i still on high light or medium with my set up. Thanks a lot in advance.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Update: I totally rescaped, changed from pool filter sand to eco complete, scrubbed down the old driftwood that had the BGA, added another piece, and returned the poor leftover plants. The light is raised now, and I'm only running one 67K bulb. No C02 yet, I'm waiting for my check valves. It is pretty obvious I need to order some plants and rearrange. Always a work in progress. I really hope the BGA is finally gone. Here's the latest pic, it hasn't competely cleared yet:


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

blackneon said:


> Hi hoppy, im just wonderin if my hagen glo dual t5ho fixture is good or fair reflectors. Its currently hanging 7inches from the top of the tank. Its 25gal tank. Dosing ei 20-40gal with rex grigg reactor. Am i still on high light or medium with my set up. Thanks a lot in advance.


Do you like your rex grigg reactor? They were highly recommended to me by my fish store guy.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

blackneon said:


> Hi hoppy, im just wonderin if my hagen glo dual t5ho fixture is good or fair reflectors. Its currently hanging 7inches from the top of the tank. Its 25gal tank. Dosing ei 20-40gal with rex grigg reactor. Am i still on high light or medium with my set up. Thanks a lot in advance.


I assume your tank is 20 inches high, so the light is about 27 inches, minus about 2 inches of substrate, from the substrate - 25 inches. At that distance you should get around 35 micromols of PAR, which is low medium light. To get medium light, if that is what you want, lower the light to about 21-23 inches from the substrate.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> I assume your tank is 20 inches high, so the light is about 27 inches, minus about 2 inches of substrate, from the substrate - 25 inches. At that distance you should get around 35 micromols of PAR, which is low medium light. To get medium light, if that is what you want, lower the light to about 21-23 inches from the substrate.


Actually, the tank is not quite 18 inches tall. I have a glass top that is normally on the tank. Should I just remove the "feet" and place the light back on the glass top? Or leave it elevated and add the other 65K bulb after I get the DIY C02 up and running?

Just noticed this wasn't for me.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Ok, this is my first day with diy C02. I'm getting nervous because it's getting late, and I don't know if I'm going to kill my fish tonight. It's obvious that a diy c02 cannot be completely turned off, so I'm hoping someone will chime in on their personal experience.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

You can always rig an airstone to come on when your lights go out.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Okay, progress is slow but steady. Everything I've ordered arrived...ferts, check valves, drop checker. Had my DIY C02 up and running, but I never got over 1 bubble every few seconds, and even that fluctuated. I figured I had a leak, so yesterday I redid the whole thing. Algae is not gone, but it hasn't taken over either. I haven't installed my drop checker, and I've only dosed KNO3 once a couple of weeks ago. 
So, here's my question. Since I'm starting over with my C02 setup, I decided to check some param's. I was startled to find that my nitrates were at 10ppm! I haven't had a nitrate reading since I planted. Could someone fill me in on what's going on? 
Also, I know you seasoned planted guru's chuckle at some of the questions you must get, but could someone please tell me what this is? It came with my drop checker. :iamwithst


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

Looks like a check-valve/bubble counter combo unit.


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