# White Cloud Mountain Minnows



## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

50 views and no bites?

I don't want to mess up and kill them. Any info helps.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

I found three this morning lying motionless on the bottom, but when I tapped the container they sprung back to life. The fourth (which was a male), I found dead. It jumped out. It was lying about 3" directly above the container of water it jumped from... 

:iamwithst


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

What are your water parameters? Do you have a filter? Has the tank cycled?


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

trixella said:


> What are your water parameters? Do you have a filter? Has the tank cycled?


Not sure, nope and yes. It's been set up with some plants for two weeks.


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

if they look chunky then they probobly have eggs i would recommend a filter even a sponge one and a substrate i used to keep mine on sand and they were happy haha the males normally have more red colouration towards the tails as always a mixed diet is best i fed mine bloodworm brineshrimp flake and powdered pellets hope this helps


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## knuggs (Mar 5, 2007)

Google White Cloud Minnows Profile, it will provide you with the info you are looking for. The minnows should have some kind of current and arent going to last long in your containers, these are stream minnows. The best way to raise fry is with Microworms, which you can get cultures on here and I also could provide some.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> Not sure, nope and yes. It's been set up with some plants for two weeks.


If it's only been set up for 2 weeks and no filter or substrate I would venture to say that it is _not _cycled and you're putting the fish through having their gills burnt by ammonia. I would suggest not getting anymore fish for now, getting a filter, some substrate (so the nitrifying bacteria have more surface to cling to), and throwing in some flake food to get the cycle going. Then check your water parameters and watch for the ammonia and nitrite spike... wait for both of them to come down to 0... then slowly add a couple of fish at a time every few days so your filter can easily handle building up the nitrifying bacteria. It can take a few weeks for a tank to cycle.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't think ammonia is the problem in this short period of time. I understand you just put the fish in? But I see oxygen as a big problem. White clouds are fish from cooler, fast moving water that will not do well in a stagnant warm tank (hothouse temps), regardless if it is cycled or not. You need to add a filter as soon as possible to create a current and an airstone immediately or they will not survive. Warm water contains less oxygen then cold water. I would move the container to a cooler place until you have figured the other problems out. If these fish don't survive, maybe you could look into getting a beta. Those would be ok in a tank like that.


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## trixella (Jan 24, 2011)

If it's the same container he/she had in the other thread they started then Guppy already threw in a bunch of guppies that have all died so there's probably a bit of ammonia from them. Also I think they have it out in a sunroom where the water temp is really cold. I realize White Clouds like it cold but if they bought it from a store that's probably keeping them in the upper 70's and Guppy is bringing them home and putting them into water that's 20 degrees cooler then imo it's too shocking too quickly.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

Nope, I actually have four containers like this. The guppies were in another one. This one has been set up the same amount of time using the same water. It has some pond plants in it. I'm expecting to get about 6-8 large bags of anacharis pretty soon from a friend's pond. He dumped a bunch in there in the 60s and now the pond is overrun with that stuff.

The greenhouse gets up in to 80s during the hottest part of the day in winter, but usually stays in the 70s. The water gets up in the 60s during the day, but falls to about 50 at night. In the summer it should be able 80 during the day and 70 at night, which would be great for tropical fish. I wish I could keep a beta, but they may like warmer water than my winter temperatures provide. I'm not looking to get into freshwater fish too seriously, just something to keep in the greenhouse to kinda raise the humidity around my grow shelves.

I think there will be tons of oxygen when I load the containers with anacharis. I do have HOB filters from my collecting over the years, probably anywhere from 50gph to 300gph. I don't think I want to do that though.

Still trying to find that perfect fish that can cope with my temperatures that I actually like. Nothing native is of my pleasure. white clouds seem like a good option because they're small, they're prolific breeders and they can tolerate the cool temps as well as the warm ones. They're taking it better than the guppies did, so that's good. I'll try guppies again when it warms up in summer. I used to throw my excess guppies in my pond outside during the summer and they made it through winter. In summer it won't shock them as much.

I believe the two females are preggers... When should I expect eggs, if any since I shocked them from the temps?

Do you think betas would survive 50F nights in the winter, as long as the days got up in the 60s? In the summer they should be fine. Probably a bad idea...


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## BarleyBear (Feb 18, 2012)

Bettas need much higher and constant temperatures. 78 is ideal. 

Of course, you can only keep one male in a container, anyway. With care, you can create a sorority of females. Still, the temps would probably kill them.


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## Rich Conley (Jun 10, 2008)

trixella said:


> If it's only been set up for 2 weeks and no filter or substrate I would venture to say that it is _not _cycled and you're putting the fish through having their gills burnt by ammonia. I would suggest not getting anymore fish for now, getting a filter, some substrate (so the nitrifying bacteria have more surface to cling to), and throwing in some flake food to get the cycle going. Then check your water parameters and watch for the ammonia and nitrite spike... wait for both of them to come down to 0... then slowly add a couple of fish at a time every few days so your filter can easily handle building up the nitrifying bacteria. It can take a few weeks for a tank to cycle.


Its 4 white clouds. Unless the tank is a pint glass, ammonia isn't the issue.


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy said:


> Nope, I actually have four containers like this. The guppies were in another one. This one has been set up the same amount of time using the same water. It has some pond plants in it. I'm expecting to get about 6-8 large bags of anacharis pretty soon from a friend's pond. He dumped a bunch in there in the 60s and now the pond is overrun with that stuff.
> 
> The greenhouse gets up in to 80s during the hottest part of the day in winter, but usually stays in the 70s. The water gets up in the 60s during the day, but falls to about 50 at night. In the summer it should be able 80 during the day and 70 at night, which would be great for tropical fish. I wish I could keep a beta, but they may like warmer water than my winter temperatures provide. I'm not looking to get into freshwater fish too seriously, just something to keep in the greenhouse to kinda raise the humidity around my grow shelves.
> 
> ...


as the advice on here suggests check the ammonia levels add a filter and a substrate and ammonia could be an issue just because there are only 4 wcmm doesnt mean there is hardly any ammonia do not add any more fish until it is established and the filter is running smoothly and there is no ammonia and you say that you are looking for a fish to cope with the temperatures you have the temperatures can be controlled by ventilation for high heat and heaters for low heat also i would not consider breeding anything until this tank is running correctly and efficiently


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

If you're looking for fish that will breed in any water and can survive anything then go with convict cichlids. Just be sure to do lots of research and have an extra tank handy in case the female gets beat up (guys are impatient to get to business). They're really rewarding to breed, and absolutely bombproof. I've had convict cichlids in water that was in the low 50s as well as the low 90s, without filtration or heating. If ever there was an unkillable fish...


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

The male and both females are fine. Actively swimming around and eating spirulina enhanced brine soaked in garlic and selcon.


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## Bunfoo (Jan 14, 2012)

Personally I'd still add some fine gravel for substrate for more bacteria. The plants alone will be putting out oxygen during the day, but taking it back in and letting out c02 at night. I suggest an airstone with a sponge around it for water movement and oxygenation especially at night.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm treating these as ponds... They're going to be stagnant. Photosynthesis uses mainly CO2 and sunlight and lets out oxygen. While some oxygen IS used by the plants during this process, they do no take it back in.

I had guppies and platies outside in a pond for over a year with no plants or aeration/filter... They were fine and they reproduced. I'll be loading these containers with anacharis soon, so it's not like three little plants and that's it.

The weather warmed up a lot and the water got into the 70s today and yesterday and fell into the 60s at night yesterday. Should be even warmer tonight. I'll try some more feeder guppies when I get the anacharis.

I will be running power out there I have decided, so I could get some 50w heaters for the containers and keep more tropical fish like bettas or something out there.


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## amcoffeegirl (May 26, 2009)

People do outdoor tub ponds all the time with no heat and no filter. i would add some gravel to the bottom. and wait for your temps to get a bit warmer.go ahead and add your plants. then wait a bit or add a filter and heater. the fish from the store have been in warm conditions. mid to upper 70's. and yes bettas like it hotter. 78 - 80. guppies will be good if the temp stays above 74. You can increase humidity without fish for now. if its a larger tub like 30 gallon you could add 1-2 goldfish and some snails.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

amcoffeegirl said:


> People do outdoor tub ponds all the time with no heat and no filter. i would add some gravel to the bottom. and wait for your temps to get a bit warmer.go ahead and add your plants. then wait a bit or add a filter and heater. the fish from the store have been in warm conditions. mid to upper 70's. and yes bettas like it hotter. 78 - 80. guppies will be good if the temp stays above 74. You can increase humidity without fish for now. if its a larger tub like 30 gallon you could add 1-2 goldfish and some snails.


I saw that some people use dirt. Would yard dirt work? No fertilizers or weed killers. Just dirt and some grass which can be picked out. How long will it take the dirt to settle in the bottom and the water to clear if there's no filteration/water movement?


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