# 20l Iwagumi internal sump *11/23/2012*



## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

I was on a trip to the southern part of the state “WV” to give a presentation on a proposed hydro turbine project for a rainbow trout hatchery. On the way down I snapped this picture for a lil inspiration. The lighting is poor but you get the idea very lushy green with jagged rock outcroppings.








Here is a very confused pup








My rocks came from aqua forest as well as my two sump fittings and glass drill bits








I modified the bulkhead fittings to be combined to one inlet that will be fed directly from the 200 GPH I am looking forward to having a lot of circulation without a lot of top water agitation 








Here it is after drilling and installing the sump holes as well as the holes for the “adjustable” overflow. More to come on the over flow later.








And then painted


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

I glued in the baffles to go behind the black back plate as seen here








As I am working directly next to my 75 while doing all of this I had to take a quick snap








Here you can see that I have installed the sump pump in preparation for gluing the back plate in tomorrow


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## Mr.Desert_scape (Mar 6, 2012)

Looks like an interesting set up! I'm interested to see how a little bit larger tank holds up without the rim.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I want to see what you do with the sump.

Props for taking your time on your de-rim. I only have done the tops on my 20 longs and that alone takes me hours. I see many people leaving the excess silicone on. I feel like I did a good job on both mine but still managed to scratch them up very slightly, yours looks really good. I will likely never de-rim a tank because the side silicone looks bad but I just like seeing it done well.

Please post updates as you go.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Interesting build. I wouldnt worry about the tank failing. Dont remember his name but there is a thread of a member here who derimmed a 75 and it held.


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## Kworker (Oct 28, 2011)

Really like that internal sump idea and looks clean.. just a thought though.. couldn't you have used something other than the glass to construct the sump? Something simpler and cheaper since it was painted anyway? That way you wouldn't have to go to glass shops or such


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

talontsiawd said:


> I want to see what you do with the sump.
> 
> Props for taking your time on your de-rim. I only have done the tops on my 20 longs and that alone takes me hours. I see many people leaving the excess silicone on. I feel like I did a good job on both mine but still managed to scratch them up very slightly, yours looks really good. I will likely never de-rim a tank because the side silicone looks bad but I just like seeing it done well.
> 
> Please post updates as you go.


It helps that i used an orbital sander and took my time to mask off the edges first. i did get one scratch on the glass but that side quickly became the back ha ha.



> Really like that internal sump idea and looks clean.. just a thought though.. couldn't you have used something other than the glass to construct the sump? Something simpler and cheaper since it was painted anyway? That way you wouldn't have to go to glass shops or such


I could have used plexi but in the bast i have had issues gluing plexi to glass so i wanted to avoid that. i also entertained the idea of using metal for a little bit. I think i could have gotten away with a large piece of alumnium but i like the look of glass painted from behind its almost like a black mirror. which is going to suck to take pictures of ha ha

here is where i got the idea for the sump. I saw this tank in a fish store called wet pets just outside of Pittsburgh


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I always thought about doing this sort of thing. Hows the co2 gonna hold up though for something like this? Without a lid wouldnt it just gas out?


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

kwheeler91 said:


> I always thought about doing this sort of thing. Hows the co2 gonna hold up though for something like this? Without a lid wouldnt it just gas out?


 Nah lots of people run co2 with a sump setups and the pump im using has a line for injection into the outflow so should work as a pretty good diffuser to just dump straight into the tank


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Alright so finals are over and as I would have liked them to have gone a little bit better there in the past now so time for an update!!!!!!!
…….. I should have spent more time studying Fluid Dynamics then thinking about fish tanks :-(
Here is the glass finally glued in








These are some pictures to show the executed overflow design that is completely removable and adjustable
















Here is the rear of the tank running and the front of the tank filled.
















Unfortunately as I should have known the paint didn’t stick as can be seen here 








I did a test with a better paint and sanding the glass on one of the circles I cut out. Paint stuck great until submersed and then it had the same result.








I ended up finding a solution to this problem but that will come in my next up date .


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Ok so the solution I came up with the background paint which has actually been working for the last 4 days flawlessly is using window tint I had left over from a car project. This is doing much better than the 20 minutes it took for the paint to peel off. 
Some of the Seriyu stones I had were too large so I ended up breaking them with a sledge hammer and a wood splitting wedge. Now after I did this the rock had really sharp edges. My solution to this was to tumble the rocks over night in a solution of sand and water… mostly water. This worked great to remove the dirt oxidation and sharp edges from the breaking.
I went from this








To this








And then tumbled it to look like this








Here is the scape as she sits now with the tinted background. Still not completely set on the rock setup but we’ll see what happens.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

IMHO Bigger rocks look better but the scape does look nice I'm interested to see this running...


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> IMHO Bigger rocks look better but the scape does look nice I'm interested to see this running...


i love the two big ones i have in there and i actually added a third large one that will be in my next up date. but the rock i split up had one really good side and all the other sides looked like crap. so this was my way of making it more useful as a sort of transition stone. i also split one other really flat rock that ended making all four small yet peakey rocks on the far right and the two closest to the middle. i was really happy with the way these stones split.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Window tint is so much better than paint. Glad you figured it out. Looks better too.


I like the scape. I wish the right side had more going on but I don't know exactly what. 


I think it would be cool if you leveled the front though. Not only is it more appealing in general (IMO) but it would make the left look higher. I don't know if some of the smaller rocks are buried but if they are, they could come up a bit. 

Not trying to be overly critical, it looks great.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

talontsiawd said:


> I think it would be cool if you leveled the front though. Not only is it more appealing in general (IMO) but it would make the left look higher. I don't know if some of the smaller rocks are buried but if they are, they could come up a bit.


Not gonna lie I have been thinking about lowering the left side and removing some gravel. If it looks bad I can always replace the gravel


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## VW_Factor (Jan 24, 2012)

Nice setup there. 

I like that


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Quick update here is how it sits now i have s 5x3 mats of HC coming from aquariumplants.com will be planting then.


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## Mr.Desert_scape (Mar 6, 2012)

If You ever decided to do something different than the window tint, you could try this stuff called plasti-dip which is like spray paint but actually a rubber coating and it water proof and as far as I know wouldn't seed chemicals into the tank and if it gets messed up you can just peel it off and spray it again.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Got another update. All my HC showed up in perfect shape. After re arranging my stones for probably the 80th time and the addition of an extra stone from one of my friends I was able to plant my tank to my liking. I have two lamps on it with 100 watt household bulbs for the duration of the immersed growing period.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks great. I like the changes you made to your hardscape as well. Are you doing dry start?


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Rocks look great like that. Cant wait to see this thing in action as it is very interesting


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

talontsiawd said:


> Looks great. I like the changes you made to your hardscape as well. Are you doing dry start?


 Yes I am dong the DSM method kind of funny because I too started in the car world as you can see by my and your user name and when I first saw DSM you can imagine what I thought they were talking about ha ha.This is also my first time trying dry start "crosses fingers"

As far as using plasti dip I have used that stuff before and was never really satisfied. Not saying it wouldn't work because I dint try it for this. Also there is a large difference between being waterproof and being submersible. Damn universal solvent.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Beautiful start


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

awdturbo04 said:


> Yes I am dong the DSM method kind of funny because I too started in the car world as you can see by my and your user name and when I first saw DSM you can imagine what I thought they were talking about ha ha.This is also my first time trying dry start "crosses fingers"


Yeah, DSM means something different from me. I haven't owned my talon in over 6-7 years, it was just my first SN. Now I drive a Honda Accord lol. What do you drive?


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## Mr.Desert_scape (Mar 6, 2012)

awdturbo04 said:


> Yes I am dong the DSM method kind of funny because I too started in the car world as you can see by my and your user name and when I first saw DSM you can imagine what I thought they were talking about ha ha.This is also my first time trying dry start "crosses fingers"
> 
> As far as using plasti dip I have used that stuff before and was never really satisfied. Not saying it wouldn't work because I dint try it for this. Also there is a large difference between being waterproof and being submersible. Damn universal solvent.


Yeah I've never used it submerged for a long period of time either. So I'm not sure how long it would hold up either but the theory of what it should do make it sound like a decent candidate for this but who knows. I saw a video of it holding water in a cardboard box without leaking at all so it would be interesting to see what it could do long term. 

Tank looks awesome though. Makes me want to start another small tank. Haha


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Damn nice job, you are giving me ideas. Would like to know how well CO2 stays dissolved once you submerge.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Ok im back after a successful beach trip as you an see here










My 10 gallon shrimp tanks that is leaking is starting to become super over run with shrimp so this 20's gotta hurry up ha ha










Here is the tank after 2 weeks 1 week of which I was at the beach and unable to spray the tank or bother it










Here we are after 3 weeks. For the last week I have been removing the top giving it a slight mist and then fanning out all the stale air and replacing it with fresh co2 rich air. No idea if this works. It makes sense in my head and its been growing noticeably fast lately.


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Wow. Nothin' like a great, in-depth journal. Totally awesome. And super tank, too.


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## Higher Thinking (Mar 16, 2011)

awdturbo04 said:


> Here we are after 3 weeks. For the last week I have been removing the top giving it a slight mist and then fanning out all the stale air and replacing it with fresh co2 rich air. No idea if this works. It makes sense in my head and its been growing noticeably fast lately.


I totally have been wondering this myself. Like it seems if one keeps the wrap around it nonstop, then CO2 will become all used up unless you open it and freshen it up. I have thought about running an immersed setup with wrap around it and a CO2 airline going in as well. It will just keep pumping and work itself out as pressure builds. Seems feasible to me.


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## srivihk (Feb 20, 2011)

Do you have the line diagram of the sump. I'm contemplating something like this on the sides. One side for the sump and other side for a DIY CO2. Use 4" on both the sides on a 36" tank.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

> Do you have the line diagram of the sump. I'm contemplating something like this on the sides. One side for the sump and other side for a DIY CO2. Use 4" on both the sides on a 36" tank.


If you look in post #11 you can see a pretty good shot of what I ended up with but I do not have any diagrams of what I did.... I like to work in my head when it is something not involving school or work. I feel I can be more creative this way.



> I have thought about running an immersed setup with wrap around it and a CO2 airline going in as well. It will just keep pumping and work itself out as pressure builds. Seems feasible to me.


I thought of this as well but i haven't gotten around to refilling my co2 tank so it hasn't happened.


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## IamtheSeaBass (Jun 13, 2012)

Winston!


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## trit0n2003 (Nov 19, 2010)

This tank will look awesome when its grown in. NICE!


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Finally an up date. It appears to have slowed down from the initial burst in growth. Its been about a month and ive just recently tried raising the water level in the tank as well as introducing more fertilizers well see how that ends up working.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

What do you guys think about this lighting fixture? Its got some good and bad reviews on here but I herd that the bad reviews were from the old design that had a bad ballast design.

Main question it only comes in a 24 inch and a 36 inch think 24 will be fine?

http://www.aquatraders.com/24-inch-4x24W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52303p.htm


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

awdturbo04 said:


> What do you guys think about this lighting fixture? Its got some good and bad reviews on here but I herd that the bad reviews were from the old design that had a bad ballast design.
> 
> Main question it only comes in a 24 inch and a 36 inch think 24 will be fine?
> 
> http://www.aquatraders.com/24-inch-4x24W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52303p.htm


I think it will be too much unless you raise it. That is pretty dependant on the reflectors. I believe they are not that good in that light, which would be to your benefit most likely. 

I use a 24 inch T5HO on my tank (aquatic life) and though I am not sure I am dialed in yet, my light is around 12 inches above the tank if not more. I could probably fit another 20 long in between. I am running two bulbs for 10 hours with a 4 hour non burst on the other two. 

I am not getting good growth out of my foreground though. Not sure if it's lighting or the plant (has always grown super slow. I have put other plants in to test and they grew quickly and have good color. I just added HC so once that starts to grow, I may lower it again.

A two bulb fixture would be a better bet but if you are only going four bulbs for a noon burst, you may be happy with that light. I believe, again, the reflectors are not so good which, again, would be to your benefit here. 2 bulbs of T5HO is too much light with amazing reflectors without raising the light.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

talontsiawd said:


> I think it will be too much unless you raise it. That is pretty dependant on the reflectors. I believe they are not that good in that light, which would be to your benefit most likely.


I want to have the light a good bit above this tank since its rimless and I want it to be able to be viewed with the whole tank including the top open. I also like the whole timing in different bulbs throughout the day and do it on my 75 with good growth. I also know its a novelty but i do appreciate the moon light as well. :hihi:


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

awdturbo04 said:


> I want to have the light a good bit above this tank since its rimless and I want it to be able to be viewed with the whole tank including the top open. I also like the whole timing in different bulbs throughout the day and do it on my 75 with good growth. I also know its a novelty but i do appreciate the moon light as well. :hihi:


It should work. I am using the same amount of wattage and my tank isn't very planted right now. I think the more bulbs the better, even if you only use the all for a short period of time, etc. It gives you flexibility. 

I can't vouch for that fixture myself. As said, I don't believe it has the greatest reflectors but that is likely not going to be a problem, if it had amazing reflectors it may cause problems. I have read one person who had issues with the light and I don't know how it was resolved but many people are using them without issues. I think it's fine but my advice is meaningless here lol. 

Can't wait to see this going. Looks like it's almost time to fill.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

talontsiawd said:


> Can't wait to see this going. Looks like it's almost time to fill.


ha ha I keep going back in forth every day as to weather its ready or not. If my co2 tank was full I would probably have already done it by now.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

awdturbo04 said:


> ha ha I keep going back in forth every day as to weather its ready or not. If my co2 tank was full I would probably have already done it by now.


Wait for CO2 for sure. The HC has to transition from emersed and I found the best way to avoid or minimize algae outbreaks is to blast CO2 pretty heavily.


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## fplata (May 20, 2012)

Hey man, the tank is looking great, who did you order the HC from, it looks great as well


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

fplata said:


> Hey man, the tank is looking great, who did you order the HC from, it looks great as well


I got the HC from aquariumplants.com as per a friends recommendation. was very good quality



> Wait for CO2 for sure. The HC has to transition from emersed and I found the best way to avoid or minimize algae outbreaks is to blast CO2 pretty heavily. Yesterday 02:49 PM


Agree completely from what Ive read. I plan on turning this tank into a seltzer water for the first month.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Alright guys its been quite a while and I am happy to say that I have finally filled the tank. Some time in June I thought the tank wasn't getting enough light so I put it out on the deck. Within an hour the heat reduced it to this










Needless to say I felt miserable and almost gave up

After about 4 months it eventually grew back to this which I am very happy with. here is the progression




























After much mental debate I decided on this stand from petco and that light I mentioned earlier in this thread

here it is before the new lights arrived



















Then the light arrived. After a short trip to lowes and $12.44 later i had this fancy light hanger 










Tomorrow ill post pics of the tank running filled with water


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## Kado (Oct 30, 2012)

Wow nice! Great Journal.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

Here is the tank finally filled it was bittersweet as it looks soooo good empty and I know there is a risk that it could all melt :-( but hopefully all turns out well. I have the co2 running at 5bps dosing excel at the recommended dose as well as dosing dry ferts at the EI index. I am also running the lights for only 4 hours for the first week as per recommendation of another member on this board.



















here is a picture of the co2 misting out of the filter










and here are a few shots of the filter. I dumped some mulm from my other tank and I have bio balls on the way should be here on monday.


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## awdturbo04 (Mar 12, 2004)

And the new home for the next month till I move to dc for the new job :-(


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Nice setup!


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## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

Great work!


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## zetvi (Jun 12, 2013)

Can you explain how you make that hanger please!!!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

zetvi said:


> Can you explain how you make that hanger please!!!


This was a necro-ed thread (2 years old) and the owners last post was back in march.. don't hold your breath waiting for a response.

That said I'm tempted to rip the trim off my 20g long and a try high tech setup after seeing this.


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