# My Ebb and Flow Emersed Setup



## Gatekeeper

4/16/2011 - Go to here to see latest setup - Click Me


Original thread
I had a lot of extra plants around that were just taking up to much space, so i decided I would do another emersed setup.

I had acquired an old beat up 75 gallon aquarium a while back that had just been sitting around collecting dust. The thing is really shot and i wouldn't trust it filled with water. Glass is scratched, seams are just flat out nasty, so this looked like the best candidate to house my new setup.

I did a lot of research about types of emersed/hydroponic setups and since I had a lot of extra equipment laying I figured I would try an Ebb and Flow setup.

I utilized window box planters, four in total, which fit exactly inside a 75 gallon. Three are planted and one is empty right now. Still deciding on what I want to put in there.

I filled each with substrate, some old eco I had laying around and one with schultz.

I braced each of the four planters off the floor of the tank using 3" PVC pipes that I cut down. This is so the planters are not submersed and it would create a small sump of water underneath the planters. This also allows each of the planters to drain out.

I used a quiet one pump for the main water feed up to a small riser that distributes the water out to the four planters. I have it set on a timer to run for two minutes each hour. This is just enough time to submerse the substrate. Also on the timer is an Exo terra fogger that gives the tank a bit more humidity. (i also have a heater in the water to keep the tank water temp up to about 80 degrees. This also helps keep the humidity in the tank high.)

For lighting I had my old 48" PC fixture. I run two of the 65 watt 10,000K bulbs for about 15 hours a day.

I dosed the water column up to about 10-10-10 (give or take). I throw a shot of ferts in from time to time for the heck of it. I mist the plants about once every two weeks.

This is what the final product looks like... Tell me what you think!!

Its been running for a few months now. Love it. Simple and algae free!


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## @[email protected]

looks great. i love anubias emmersed, they grow more then twice as fast.


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## epicfish

Wow, great setup! One day when I have the space...


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## CL

I love it! That's really cool  Makes me want to set one up


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## SearunSimpson

Now I want to set up my empty 90. In theory, this is how alot of the aquatic plant producers do it. If you went on a larger scale, with various crypts and what not, you should start selling to your local stores. Sell it to them for the same price they get per plant before shipping. If the stores can buy a healthy product for the same price and not have to pay shipping, they should jump on it. Also, since it is not being packaged and shipped, there is less stress on the plants.


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## Gatekeeper

Thanks everyone! I actually have this setup in my basement, so as far as space goes, its really a no brainer. Its not like its pretty or anything, so find a corner, clear out the cob webs and let er rip.

searunsimpson: I hear ya. If it ever got to a large scale, perhaps I would, but chances are I would just sell them here or donate them to my club before that. But at least the idea is there.


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## AaronT

Nice setup Glenn.  Any flowers on those Crypts yet?

What's in the third box?


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## Gatekeeper

AaronT said:


> Nice setup Glenn.  Any flowers on those Crypts yet?
> 
> What's in the third box?


No flowers yet. Waiting patiently...:icon_eek:

Third box in the front is Lileaopsis. Takes a while to grow, but its a perfect candidate for an emersed setup.

Still thinking about what I want to put in the rear empty box. Its been empty for a while. I was thinking HC, but I am not really a fan of it for some reason. I did have UG for a while and it grew like wild fire, but some hitchhiker Riccia and HC was mixed in with it and it just became a PITA to clean up.

Open to ideas if you have any.


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## jinx©

Very cool idea and setup. Do either anubias or crypts lose their leaves after being grown this way then going into a submerged environment?


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## Gatekeeper

jinx© said:


> Very cool idea and setup. Do either anubias or crypts lose their leaves after being grown this way then going into a submerged environment?


Anubias, no. Crypts, yes for the most part.


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## jinx©

gmccreedy said:


> Anubias, no. Crypts, yes for the most part.


Brainfart on my part there. <reminds self to let coffee kick in before posting:confused1:>

My crypts typically lose leaves just being transplanted from one side of aquarium to the other...lol


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## roybot73

Pretty sweet setup!


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## tazcrash69

gmccreedy said:


> Open to ideas if you have any.


Swords Glenn.... If you are interested in the Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica' let me know. I have to bring them indoors anyway.


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## Gatekeeper

Sounds good Walter. Let me know when you are bringing them in, I will come down and snag one or two.

Do you have any Kleiner bar?


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## tazcrash69

Give me a call to stop by when you can. 
I think I can take a kliener out for some emmersed growth.

I might have some other interesting E.'s for ya later this week. :thumbsup:


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## Guest

Nice Ebb and Flow setup. I have used a few of these in the past and have a nice hydro setup still but it wasnt used for aquarium plants :hihi:

I used rockwool on all my hydro setups I may start a new one up after seeing this with some hair grass and stuff now.


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## die2win

Very Cool, Wish I had the room to try that!


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## ikuzo

nice small farm there. it's a great way to keep the humidity.


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## Gatekeeper

Update for this coming soon...Some changes in the works.


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## tazcrash69

Looking forward to this Glenn, I was about to PM you about it in the next couple days.


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## Gatekeeper

Thanks Walter. Your Swords are juuussstttt... starting to revive. Some are still hurting though.

Ironically, I stuck a few stems of Ludwigia glandulosa that I had. You wouldn't believe how fast they grow emersed. Certainly alot faster then submersed. That I can say definitively! Plus the burgundy coloration is gorgeous. I want to try and cultivate a nice plot of it at some point.

The crypts are madness. Jay was right, these things took off. The wendtii is really cool looking.

Lileaopsis, this plant just flat out stinks. Doesn't grow at any rate that is even close to being monitored. I look in this setup maybe once a week and I swear that everytime I look, the lileaopsis looks just like it did the week before. Kind of frustrating. Its been in there for months and nothing. I think its getting the heave ho soon...


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## Gatekeeper

Update:

Had successful growth on the crypts. This was right before I pulled it all for a new species planting. Got all new plant species to grow out plus a new setup coming in the next few months... I have really caught this bug bad.




























*You can thank Chris laracy for the "bare spot" in my anubia bucket. His grubby little hands just had to go in there and yank some and run home. *Little bugger.


















*in transition....*


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## crabcake

pretty nice. i have a similar setup. the _Cryptocoryne_ have had the most pleasing results: i have a half-dozen species/varieties of crypts growing emersed. do you know the species for that one with the pointy leaves? it looks a lot like the one that i understood to be _C. lutea_.

your swords look just like most of the ones that i have tried. i planted up about ten different swords and only got two of them to grow well as emersed plants. the rest all either perished or persisted as puny little rosettes with half-dead leaves. this seems odd since so many _Echinodorus_ grow primarily as emergents in the wild. it might be that my water is just too hard for them. i don't pay attention to water params like i should.

you've probably seen this already but the book _Aquarium Plants_ by Kasselman has a lot of data and pictures too describing growth coonditions of crypts. also check this out: 

http://www.nationaalherbarium.nl/cryptocoryne/index.html

the Europeans have put a lot of energy into growing crypts and do most of their culture with emersed plants to encourage flowering. some of those people maintain endangered/extinct in the wild species for conservation the same way that people keep endangered fishes.


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## Gatekeeper

crabcake said:


> pretty nice. i have a similar setup. the _Cryptocoryne_ have had the most pleasing results: i have a half-dozen species/varieties of crypts growing emersed. do you know the species for that one with the pointy leaves? it looks a lot like the one that i understood to be _C. lutea_.


Yes, lutea. There is also a bit of lucens mixed in there. What species do you have? Perhaps a trade is in order?



crabcake said:


> your swords look just like most of the ones that i have tried. i planted up about ten different swords and only got two of them to grow well as emersed plants. the rest all either perished or persisted as puny little rosettes with half-dead leaves. this seems odd since so many _Echinodorus_ grow primarily as emergents in the wild. it might be that my water is just too hard for them. i don't pay attention to water params like i should.


I was surpised that the ones I do have made it. They have been in there just under a month and took quite sometime to transition.



crabcake said:


> you've probably seen this already but the book _Aquarium Plants_ by Kasselman has a lot of data and pictures too describing growth coonditions of crypts. also check this out:
> 
> http://www.nationaalherbarium.nl/cryptocoryne/index.html


Kasselman's book is my bible. Sits right on my computer desk for easy access...lol.

And Jans site is always a welf of info. There are a few other sites and blogs I frequent alot as well.


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## AaronT

Ah man, I can't believe you tossed the Crypts. I thought we had a convert. 

Growing _Echinodorus_ emersed is tricky business. They actually prefer lower humidity than the 90%-100% these types of setups offer. Try one of them in a similar setup with no lid on the tank so it's just in the open air. I suspect you'll have more success this way.


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## Gatekeeper

AaronT said:


> Ah man, I can't believe you tossed the Crypts. I thought we had a convert.


No no!!! I did not toss them~!! They are going in a new setup! I just got my crypt package from Ghazanfar. :thumbsup: They are going into this setup for a while. I am using the ones I already had going to test the new setup. I don't want to "experiment" on a new setup with the fine specimens that he sent me. 

I am converted!




AaronT said:


> Growing _Echinodorus_ emersed is tricky business. They actually prefer lower humidity than the 90%-100% these types of setups offer. Try one of them in a similar setup with no lid on the tank so it's just in the open air. I suspect you'll have more success this way.


This setup is running about 75 to 80% range by the little guage I have. It is well vented. I may try an open top setup if I get the time. My focus right now is on the crypts.


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## AaronT

Sweet, another member of the NACS.


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## aquanut415

sweet setup, the growth looks great!


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## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> *You can thank Chris laracy for the "bare spot" in my anubia bucket. His grubby little hands just had to go in there and yank some and run home. *Little bugger.


LOL

I have to say, the setup is amazing. Even more amazing in person. The plants grow so healthy, I'm sure it'd be impossible to get them that healthy immersed. The detail on the crypts was stunning, almost looked fake. The whole thing is really well designed, you can tell he's an engineer 

thanks again for the plants, I sent you a pm :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## roybot73

Those Crypts are flat-out SICK!!! I hope some of mine are in that sweet setup


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## sadistic-otaku

Those plants look great!


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## Gatekeeper

roybot73 said:


> Those Crypts are flat-out SICK!!! I hope some of mine are in that sweet setup


Can't remember what you sent me, but I believe there are some in there if I recall.


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## crabcake

gmccreedy said:


> Yes, lutea. There is also a bit of lucens mixed in there. What species do you have? Perhaps a trade is in order?


here is a qucik list off the top of my head:


_Cryptocoryne parva_
_C. lutea_
_C. lucens_
_C. retrospiralis_
_C. pontederifolia_
_C. moelmanii_
_C. balansae_
_C. blasii_
?? at least a couple _wendtii_

just last week i got six more new ones from notorious Pets Warehouse. they look happy enough so far but are not yet established.

you know a real nice one that i had for a while was _ciliata_. that grows to a larger plant and has coarser leaves; it can handle lower humidity and higher light. mine was gorwing well but somehow got a bacterial problem and rotted away. i hope to try that one again

i would like to keep trading to accumulate more new ones.


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## tazcrash69

gmccreedy said:


> Thanks Walter. Your Swords are juuussstttt... starting to revive. Some are still hurting though.


FWIW, the E. parviflorus 'Tropica' is probably the slowest gorwing Echinodorus that I've had in my tanks. Even under high light with lots of CO2 & ferts. 

If they make it great. 

If not, I'm still glad I handed them off for you to try.


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## lovelandbmxrider

this setup rocks!!!!! its like hydroponics for aquariums


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## crabcake

any new updates?

does anybody out there know anything about encouraging crypts to flower? i have a half-dozen species growing strong as emergents but haven't seen a single bloom yet. it looks as though the European aquarium/tropicals hobbyists routinely get them to flower(?)


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## Gatekeeper

A little update. Going to be redoing alot of these containers over the next few weeks so will post some more extensive pics later.

_*Ludwigia glandulosa*_ (has a beautiful magenta color, grows so much faster emersed then submersed) 
_*Hygrophila polysperma*_ (notice how it creeps along the bottom, shows its true form as to why its a noxious weed)
_*Hemigraphis traian *_(I think)









Some Crypts that are going to be potted soon.









My first spathe, Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
Notice the Ludwigia repens. Converted very quickly to emersed.


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## daFrimpster

looks like the demon duckweed in that last pic? How does it grow emersed????


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## Gatekeeper

daFrimpster said:


> looks like the demon duckweed in that last pic? How does it grow emersed????


It really is a problem...lol. I am not even sure how it got in there, but man its everywhere.


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## monkeyruler90

wow, nice set up!!


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## hydrophyte

any updates on this one?

i need to go back and see how you did the "ebb and flow". i have certain plants that might benefit from that.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums

Outstanding Glenn!  Holly Cow! ...I love it!
You must be very proud 


-Orlando


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## Gatekeeper

Wow. Thanks guys. Its had a lot of changes just by looking at the old pics. Will update soon, I am actually swapping alot of stuff into different setups as we speak so its a bit wacky right now.

Ironically, the one Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia shown above hass flowered almost on average of once every two weeks. I think its on its fifth one now. Only one that will flower though (for now). 

Hygrophila polysperma... I now understand why its a noxious weed. Not only did it take over an entire tray, its smothers everything else in its way. Wild.


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## hydrophyte

yeah, i need to look into how to get crypts to flower. so far i have only gotten blooms from three different _C. wendtii_ varieties. i have a spathe emerging from the crown of a _C. lutea_, but it's slow. i have several big healthy plants of other species and it seems like they ought to flower.

one problem that i have is that i have most of them planted into straight clay gravel, and many references emphasize the importance of organic amendments, such as leaf mould.

i should study Ghanzafar Ghori's blog some more. from what i saw before he doesn't do much of anything special, although he was experimenting with gibberellic acid with some plants.


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## Wö£fëñxXx

Nice job Glenn, impressive, I am wanting to build one myself, but to grow
some vegetables instead, tomatoe's, peppers, etc.
I am going to do it a bit differently though, no dirt, rockwool and clay pellets
with a drip feed, kind of a cross between E&F and Hydroponics.

If you place a fan on the plants, they will grow even better, it increases
Co2, and spray them daily as much as you like with soda water/carbonated water.
Club Soda.
:tongue:


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## Gatekeeper

Thanks Craig! Yea, the fan is coming soon. I ctually scored a humidistat on ebay real cheap so I am working on a humidifier and fan system. 

I am actually debating getting rid of the "ebb and flow" and going with more of a nutrient film technique similar to what you are thinking. The ebb and flow is excellent and did exactly what I planned, however, some plants struggle with the conversion from submersed to emersed. Almost like they get confused and stuck in transition as a result of the excessive moisture and humidity. Some have flourished though!

So, I have debated a simpler pump system with a dripper.

Caronated water huh... hmmm. Very interesting. Rockwool is nice and all, but $$$. I just use old substrate and fertilize as needed. Clay pellets, I have some but have yet to use them. One of those things I saw at the hydroponics store and just said, "I need that" and had no idea why. LOL. Impulse buy.

One thing that was a bit of a problem here in this setup was BGA. The surface tension that begins to form gets a bit tough and just harvests BGA. So, I had to aerate it frequently (use a pair of tweezers or a fork and churn it here and there).

All and all, successful. Will continue to use it.


Good idea with vegetables Craig. I have met a few people who do it and its actually pretty amazing at what you can do in hydroponics setups.


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## hydrophyte

there really are some amazing products in the hydroponics industry--a good illustration of how a really high value and scarce commodity can drive innovation. there are many companies involved in hydroponics and the competition also helps to keep prices down.

what are you doing with all of this plant material? 

humidity really is an important variable as it influences the development of emersed aquarium plants. one of the nicest plants in my 55g crypts display is a _Lagenandra_ sp.. it looked cool when i got it, but in the very humid air of that enclosure it has switched to all immersed form leaves, which are thin and flimsy. i might see about blowing an airline right at, although it might be difficult to maintain a consistent humidity level in its vicinity. i might also pull it out and stick into an open-top display. it took me a while to figure out that _Echinodorus_ really must have pretty dry air in order to switch growth forms.

what do you hope to do with the fan? will this just lower humidity? i have wondered about using a fan within a high-humidity display just to blow the moist air around. this might improve overall plant health and also encourage them to grow with somewhat more compact and robust foliage. i wonder how a pancake fan will fare in >90% humidity(?). it might be too wet.


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## Gatekeeper

> what are you doing with all of this plant material?


First off, the best thing about an emersed setup is that its a great storage area for plants you are not "scaping" with at the time.

As far as the excess, I give alot of it away or even sell it here from time to time.




> humidity really is an important variable as it influences the development of emersed aquarium plants.


I think control of humidity is the key. Some plants thrive in high humidity, some prefer lower humidity. 

matching the optimal conditions of the plants is the key. Look at the lutea in the photos on the second page. Once I took the fogger out, that variegation disappeared and growth slowed. The bronze wendtii darkened in color as well.




> what do you hope to do with the fan? will this just lower humidity? i have wondered about using a fan within a high-humidity display just to blow the moist air around. this might improve overall plant health and also encourage them to grow with somewhat more compact and robust foliage. i wonder how a pancake fan will fare in >90% humidity(?). it might be too wet.


I have had many discussions on this topic. this is where my humidistat will come into play. it will have the ability to dial in my humidity to the desired level. If humidity is too low, it will turn on a fogger fan setup I have in the works to raise humidity. If humidity gets to high, a air fan will vent outside air in to reduce humidity. This ultimatly will allow me to adjust conditions easily and be able to monitor the plant conditions of the set humidity level.

90% humidity, is barely emersed. Most plants would barely shed the submersed leaf structure. good example of this is Alternanthera reineckii.


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## Gatekeeper

Some minor updates. Did alot of experimenting with different plant species. Had alot of failures, but some moderate success with some.

Enjoy! :bounce:

Bush of Alternanthera reineckii 'rosaefolia' (grows amazing in the humidity)









Polygonum sp. 'Sao Paulo' (which had a flower stalk, but its just lost in the mix there somewhere) and Alternanthera reineckii 'lilacina' (I think)









Ludwigia glandulosa one lonely stem of Polygonum sp. 'Kawagoeanum'









Sphaerocaryum malaccense AKA Arthraxon sp. 'Malaysia' (popped up out of nowhere. I thought I killed it).








Anubias, Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Sunset' some crazy Ludwigia which will slowly creep around the whole tank. 









Newly planted Cryptocoryne walkeri 'Lutea', Hemigraphis Traian (or whatever its called, I can't keep up anymore), Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia (this ol girl has probably given me close to 10 spathes now in the last six months. I get a new one every two weeks almost on the dot.



















Some of my other setups

























Locally collected Lobelia cardinalis (not dwarf obviously)









Alternanthera reineckii 'rosaefolia' (In full bloom)









Locally collected Ludwigia palustris (collected emersed and in good shape, all standing up now)









Locally collected Proserpinaca palustris (collected emersed, but the jury is still out on the survival of this)


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## legomaniac89

Beautiful! I'm so jealous :icon_mrgr

How's the Sunset Crypt doing for you? I have one in a small terrarium and it has a spathe almost constantly. As soon as one withers, another is there to take its place.

Someday I hope to set something up that's really similar to yours. I have a 10 that's growing a few crypts and other random plants, all converting over from submersed growth, and I'm having pretty good luck so far.


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## Gatekeeper

Sunset is doing great actually. Those in the emersed were all tiny tiny plantlets when I stuck them in there. So, they have done well. The mother plants that they came from are submersed and ironically I had three spathes at one time submersed. They never opened of course. Ironically, I was unimpressed by the plant when I got it, but I must say, I have a soft spot for it now. Submersed form is really a treat. The red and brown coloration is quite unique.

Emersed is very very addicting. Gets worse when you start getting wacky species and you treat them like the holy grail for fear you will lose them. LOL


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## hydrophyte

nice work Glenn. this is very interesting to see. now when are are you going to put together a _scape_ with some of this stuff? i bet you could take 1/2 hour to assemble a little arrangement in a 5 gallon that would grow into something gorgeous--maybe something like a _wabi-kusa_ island made with a couple three hydroponics net pots filled with aquasoil resting on a bead of pool filter sand in 1 1/2 inches of water? 

that is intriguing that you have such bright colors in your stem plants. maybe they are in near 100% humidity, so they think they are still underwater(?). my experience with most of the red stems that i have tried (_Polygonum_, _Alternanthera_, _Limnophila_) is that the leaves turn green, with just dingy hints of red. since i was trying to get these to grow into erect, sturdy plants i had most of these growing in situations with more air circulation. you might also have brighter light over yours.

that _Arthraxon_ sp. 'Malaysia' is a funny little plant. is that some kind of grass, or a Commelinaceae of some sort? that _Ludwigia_ in your fifth shot looks nice. mine always fizzled. i think maybe i had them in a not-rich-enough substrate. _Nesea_ 'Golden' is another neat one that i had that i lost. have you tried that one, or _Ranunculus inundatus_? there are just a lot of stem plants to try and grow like this.


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## Gatekeeper

I have experimented with this setup for many different conditions. This setup as it stands seems to be the best. Somehow, the air exchange coupled with the humidity does give the impression that the plants think they are submersed, yet the stem growth structures is strong enough (as if it were emersed).

The real beauty of this is if I pull the plants from here and go submersed (which I have), the stress on the plant seems minimal and there is rarely any "stunting" or transition time.

Nesea, will never buy any of that species again. Too much to deal with, they are just a PITA.

As far as doing a scape, they (yes plural) are coming in the Fall. I am doing renovations in my home right now so seting up tanks is just not possible.'

I have two submersed setups still going, my 72 gallon is basically just packed with plants getting ready for November and my little 10 gallon is just anubias and shrimp.

wabi-kusa... heh. Just an excuse for my kids to bring mud into the house (because Daddy did).


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## Axelrodi202

How did you do the setups in the 8th picture? What did you use?


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## Gatekeeper

What do you mean? The trays and domes?


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## Axelrodi202

Yep.


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## Gatekeeper

They are something like this. 

I see your a local boy, you can get them at 77hydro which is right in West Caldwell off of Route 46. http://www.77hydro.com/

Real simple, real cheap. Add plants, water and light and go.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums

It keeps getting better with age! No need for an aquatic plant compost heap 


-O


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## elpezpr

Resurrection/Update Request


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## Gatekeeper

Taken down. Was outstanding. I have ideas for a better setup down the road.


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## Gatekeeper

Resurrected and ready to go. As soon as the temp and humidity is up, planting...

Will be mostly Cryptocoryne species.

Substrate is a mix of all kinds of stuff. Old substrates like eco complete, gravel, schultz, soilmaster, play sand, peat, MTS, clay... whatever I had laying around really.


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## VaultBoy

That is a sweet setup i cant wait to see it planted


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## roybot73

Dude. This is amazing - super clean setup. 
Plants, please!!!!


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## Gatekeeper

Ask and you shall receive. Plants are all a bit droopey. They need to adjust to the high humidity setup, but once they do, should be pretty intense. Front left bin is "reserved".

Crappy pics from camera. Sorry.

Back left box:
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'red'
Cryptocoryne lutea
Cryptocoryne species, no idea. 
One stem of Sunset hygro (why not?)
One stem of some other hygro.










Back right box:
Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
Cryptocoryne moehlmannii










Front right box:
Anubias nana
Anubias nana petite


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## wkndracer

Thanx for the update (cool stuff)


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## tuffgong

That's a great setup! Looking forward to everything growing out. Subscribed!


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## Gatekeeper

Very very quick spathe! I don't even feel like most of the plants have acclimated. May have been what triggered it. You can see how droopy the leaves are in the photo. Nothing is really pronounced yet.











The one plant that seems pretty happy (aside for this guy sending up an early spathe) is _Cryptocoryne albida_ and the _Cryptocoryne pygmea_. Never tried these types of plants in a setup like this and I am glad they are doing well.


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## Pooch

I'm really interested in this end of the hobby. Care to share some details about the set up insofar as the pump/plumbing, lighting, and ferts? You seem to have one hell of a operation in the basement! Thanks for taking the time with this journal/record.

Cheers!


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## sceraxn

Cool setup man. Have you tried growing Cryptocoryne Crispatula? I thought i saw some on another page but i couldnt really tell. Ive always wondered how their long thin leaves would do when grow emersed?


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## Gatekeeper

Pooch said:


> I'm really interested in this end of the hobby. Care to share some details about the set up insofar as the pump/plumbing, lighting, and ferts? You seem to have one hell of a operation in the basement! Thanks for taking the time with this journal/record.
> 
> Cheers!


Thanks! Lighting now is just a single 48" 54 watt HO T5 GLO fixture.
Pump is the smallest Quiet One pump (1200?). I simply have a 1/2" pvc riser on it up and split to four ports.

Planters are 24" that I got at Lowes. Fit right in snug in that 75 gallon tank.
I have a 150 watt heater in the small water column below.

I run the pump for a minute every hour to flood the buckets. I throw in ferts every now and then (when I remember).

Light is are on for 16 hours a day. 

I need to update some photos for this. Looks alot better now. LOL.



sceraxn said:


> Cool setup man. Have you tried growing Cryptocoryne Crispatula? I thought i saw some on another page but i couldnt really tell. Ive always wondered how their long thin leaves would do when grow emersed?


I have! Just not in here. LOL. I have it in another emersed setup and it grows a lot better than you think it would. Of course at first its floppy, but once it sheds its submersed growth, it actually is quite elegant looking. I have a pot of it that I planted about six weeks ago. I will take pic when I get a chance.


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## Pooch

Thanks for the reply GK. Your plants look very nice. Thanks again for sharing. 


Gatekeeper said:


> I throw in ferts every now and then (when I remember).


What kind of ferts, if I may pry?

I read somewhere that you could keep the humidity >90% by running an airstone in a jar full of water that is placed in the tank... You ever do anything like that? -or- Are you able to keep the humidity high with your current setup?


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## Gatekeeper

Pry away!! Please! I wouldn't have made the thread if it wasn't worth talking about. LOL.

Well, humidity and moisture are two separate things, so make sure you consider them differently. One can be a bi-product of the other, but you can do both without the other.

I keep the heater in the water cranked up pretty high and keep a lid on the top. I get a lot of condensation on the glass (almost to the point where its tough to see in). I would venture to say that my humidity is in the mid to high 80's (maybe even low 90's).

When I ran the original setup (and you can see this in the growth a bit too, more vibrant and cleaner looking growth), I used a fogger inside the setup which would lay a warm mist in the tank all the time. That coupled with the heater, I was most definitely in the 90's. (Plus it really looked cool). I will be integrating this feature again at some point, just haven't had time.

So, an airstone may help get moisture in the air, but I would almost say that the air exchange would be the best bi-product of it. You do need some level of ventilation on these setups (actually almost all emersed setups should have some). But do you need it to get water in the air? I would say no. Just put a lid on it and keep the heat up high. Natural evapotranspiration of the setup is enough to keep it wet in there.

As far as ferts, I have used the regular water soluble miracle gro fertilizers with great success. I sometimes will use my ready made liquid ferts from my tanks and just dump some in. The soils in the setup are pretty nutrient rich already, but it seems that when I add some fertilizer to the water, i get an extra kick in growth that is noticeable in days.

I use straight RO water BTW. I will mist the plants with my tap water from time to time, but the base water is pretty much just RO. I never really change it, just top it off as it evaporates.


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## Gatekeeper

Oh, and I lined all the planter buckets this time around with a weed control blanket cut to fit the containers and tied off around the lip (thats the black mesh you see). This seems to have the perfect ability to allow water to pass through, while retaining the soil in the buckets. Exactly what I need to happen. You can get this stuff by large rolls for little cost at any home depot, lowes or garden center.


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## nonconductive

wow this is awesome. i have an extra 75 that might end up like this after poking through this thread.


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## Whitehair

Any updates?


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## looking4roselines

Nice set up dude. Dunno how I missed this.


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## Gatekeeper

looking4roselines said:


> Nice set up dude. Dunno how I missed this.


Thanks man! I need to update it at some point. I just hacked the heck out of it, so its a bit rough.


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## nonconductive

yea lets see an update of your classiness. i expect blue tinted tubing to be rocking hard.


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## bpb

I've been wanting to do something like this. Do you direct sunlight in the Texas heat would be too much for those plants to handle?


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## james1542

Have you ever tried increasing CO2 partial pressure with your emersed setups? It looks like most of your setups are pretty well sealed already. I've thought about adding an emersed growing chamber of sorts to my DIY CO2 setups, just not too sure on how the plants would fair in an atmosphere of mostly CO2.


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## Gatekeeper

bpb said:


> I've been wanting to do something like this. Do you direct sunlight in the Texas heat would be too much for those plants to handle?


No idea. Someone from Texas would need to weigh in here. I believe humidity, air flow and ventilation control would solve any of issues though.



james1542 said:


> Have you ever tried increasing CO2 partial pressure with your emersed setups? It looks like most of your setups are pretty well sealed already. I've thought about adding an emersed growing chamber of sorts to my DIY CO2 setups, just not too sure on how the plants would fair in an atmosphere of mostly CO2.


Why add CO2? My setups are not fully sealed and have air gaps for air exchange. I don't think your idea will have any benefit at all and I am not even sure it would work.


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## 2in10

Very cool set up


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## DogFish

Gatekeeper said:


>


Very nice. I've been researching Ebb & Flow to build a system. 

In this picture I am looking at flow correct? Where/how are you "ebbing" ?

Have you had any issue with roots not having individual containers?

Have found a preferred plating media? I looked at those little clay balls for hydroponics systems. I wonder how crypts will like those.

Thank you,
Frank


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## Gatekeeper

DogFish said:


> Very nice. I've been researching Ebb & Flow to build a system.
> 
> In this picture I am looking at flow correct? Where/how are you "ebbing" ?
> 
> Have you had any issue with roots not having individual containers?
> 
> Have found a preferred plating media? I looked at those little clay balls for hydroponics systems. I wonder how crypts will like those.
> 
> Thank you,
> Frank


That picture is the plumbing to pump the water into the containers. There are holes at the bottom of the containers that drain them out. The pump runs faster than the water can drain out, so it basically floods the containers so there is just about an inch of water then the pumps kick off (no sensors or anything, just timed right). The water slowly recedes down and back into the reservoir of water below.

I use those clay balls in my mixtures. The planting media really can depend on what you are growing.


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## DogFish

I see the drain holes simply can't keep up with the pump until it cycles off.

I thought I understood that the whole idea of the Hydroponics was to let the water do the feeding and the media was to simply hold the plant? Are you using media other than the clay balls because the crypts don't like to hold on to the clay balls? Or are you mixing media just because it's what you have on hand?


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## Gatekeeper

The planting media I use is a collection. Old substrates from old setups, such as eco complete, old gravel, mineralized soil, laterite, clay, ada powersand, etc. etc. Whatever is laying around.

Sometimes I add peat to the mix to get some acidity.

As far as the theory behind the nutrients being supplied by the water, I think this depends on the process you are using. However, I do dose the water from time to time, but I also add fertilizer sticks to the soil. 

I don't really follow any "script". If plants need something, I add it. LOL.


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## DogFish

Thanks, it's nice to get hobby specific feedback. Most of the hydroponic sites have plagiarized each other with the same basic info. 

Any specific "if I new it then" advice?


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## Gatekeeper

DogFish said:


> Any specific "if I new it then" advice?


Hmmm. Well, I got a bit lucky with a few things, but here are a few little tips.

First of all, keep in mind, its very easy to dismantle the system, so anything you may miss along the way, its not too hard to reverse yourself.

Ok, foggers! Do not use them unless they are in pure RO/DI water. Any tainted water source, ie tap water, will erode them over time and render them useless. However, they are AWESOME at creating a nice humid environment. I do have some thoughts on how to integrate them "cleanly" into this setup, I just haven't had the time to build it yet. I will follow up this journal though once I get some time to do it. FWIW, I grew some of my best plants when the fogger was running.

I have my planting trays elevated above the water in the tank. I did this so that the soil would fully drain and that it wouldn't wick the water up into the substrate. I elevated the trays by cutting up some 3" PVC pipe and laying the trays on top of these. I believe they are about 5" or so tall. This works great, but in the 75 gallon tank, that's a lot of height loss that would be great for some plant growth. I have to trim a lot as a result. So, if you have the ability, create the sump in a different container all together, or use a taller tank. I am in the process of potentially building up the sides of this tank. Again, something on my "to do list".

Lids for the top of the tank. The tank I have does not have a center brace, so the traditional glass tops will not work here. I just use two pieces of plexiglass as lids. PITA. They warp all the time and I have to flip them from time to time to keep them from warping too far. So, if you can get a better working top, it makes you life a lot easier.

Watch for bugs and critters!


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## Gatekeeper

Ahh! Important! 

If you are going to do an ebb and flow and follow something similar to what I did, look at the picture you posted above. Those little white planting pots are very important. Originally, the water would just plunge into the trays, this would be a nightmare. It would just dig a huge crater into the soil over time. Those little pots act as a velocity break (a plunge pool if you will) and allows the water to just pound into it, but drizzle out into the tray at a non-erosive flowrate. I even use these little trays to add ferts from time to time.

Maybe I will try and shoot a video of this thing operating. Could answer a lot more questions for you.


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## DogFish

That was very helpful. I new right away what the white pots were. Brillant idea! That was an engineering concern of mine, how to feed the water into the media without disturbing the media/plants too much.

I was considering raising the plant trays like you did and allowing some water level in the tank and put a small heater in that water to maintain temp/humidity. Then overflow the rest into a sump during the Ebb cycle. 

I did see your fogger post, great idea.

Len, posted some info on rainy season growth for Bucephalandra, mine are emerged and being misted 2-3Xs a day and growing very well, makes me think a fogger would really be nice for them. I had also thought about those hydroponic mister heads run off a power head.

For you top delemma, keep an eye out for old broken aquariums on trash day. You might be able to recycle a nice pc of glass as a top for your system.


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## KingPlakat

BUMP...bringing this thread back because I too caught the emersed bug. Great setup Gatekeeper! I've learned so much just reading through this thread. I plan on growing mostly anubias once I set up a tank like yours. Any updates or words of advice about growing anubias emersed?


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## Gatekeeper

KingPlakat said:


> BUMP...bringing this thread back because I too caught the emersed bug. Great setup Gatekeeper! I've learned so much just reading through this thread. I plan on growing mostly anubias once I set up a tank like yours. Any updates or words of advice about growing anubias emersed?


Oh wow! Sorry, I must have missed this post!

Glad the thread inspired you!! I still have it running, but it needs an overhaul badly. Needs to be ripped down, cleaned and redone with fresh plants.

Anubias are the easiest to keep and certainly what I would say is the best introduction plant to emersed plants. Great way to cultivate the plant without the nuisance of algae.

Moderate lighting is all you need. You must keep the anubias wet, so high humidity is a plus. 

The best setup I had was in the beginning of this thread, when I had the fog system running in addition to the ebb and flow. Once the anubias rooted into the substrate into the trays, they took off. Literally. They grew so fast that I was taking some of them out every few weeks or so. 

I choose the ebb and flow system because it offered a few things which I think are key. Allows me to put a heater in the sump water and keep the water at a good temperature. It also keeps the water moving, so nothing really gets funky from sitting around too long. The water itself is hidden from the light, so it minimizes algae from being introduced into the system. Working conditions and growing bed are easy to work with, pulling plants and replanting. 

Some people use mist systems like the Mist King, which I think work great, but I have no experience yet with them. Soon maybe.


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## Gatekeeper

Its alive..... stay tuned.


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## vanish

Sweet! I want to know more, but I think its all here already. Doubt I could convince my wife on this one though.  Maybe if it were to simply "appear" in the basement with one of my old 55G. Alas, too many projects at the moment.


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## Gatekeeper

vanish said:


> Sweet! I want to know more, but I think its all here already. Doubt I could convince my wife on this one though.  Maybe if it were to simply "appear" in the basement with one of my old 55G. Alas, too many projects at the moment.


Its not that bad. Great way to harvest healthy plants.


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## vanish

Gatekeeper said:


> Its alive..... stay tuned.


I'm waiting! 

27G black plastic tubs were on sale for $12 at HD. I picked up a couple for "storage" ...


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## Gatekeeper

It looks funky right now. Give me a few more weeks. I have experimented with a few things and I want to see if they work out or if I am just fooling myself.


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## vanish

I gave you a month. Let's see it!


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## vanish

2 and a half months!  Yes, I'm still chomping at the bit!

Mostly I'd like to hear your thoughts on why Ebb and Flow is better than the simple "stationary pots in water" setup.


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## Floris

Read the entire thread, thank you very much and good job!

Im looking to start growing some anubias myself for a nice tank. I was wondering about some very practical matters, like how much water you have in the tank and whether you change your water often (or at all?). I suppose there must be enough water to fully submerge the heater at least? And does the pump fit underneath the buckets or do you keep it somewhere outside? 

Thanks so much!


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