# Why do aquatic plant nurseries grow all our plants emersed?



## mscichlid (Jul 14, 2008)

I don't know if I want to pay more for submerged plants, but I would like to be able to have that option; especially in the situation of planting a large tank or multiple tanks.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Emersed-grown plants also ship better. 

I understand that most of the commercial aquatic plants are grown in Florida in troughs or on benches out in the sunlight or in greenhouses. They have to grow them at that scale to meet their profit margins. It is probably very difficult to manage algae in such conditions.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yeah, all the aquatic nurseries I've been to around here are growing emersed-style in greenhouses, and then they have concrete pools they do the submerged plants in... but the submerged plants are always infested with algae and sometimes utricularia, and they grow like they are CO2-deficient. So I always figured, why doesn't someone just try pumping CO2 into these pools? And maybe start some EI dosing? I don't know, it just seems to me that there could be some advancements in aquarium plant farming, that's all.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Church said:


> ... why doesn't someone just try pumping CO2 into these pools? And maybe start some EI dosing? I don't know, it just seems to me that there could be some advancements in aquarium plant farming, that's all.


Bottom line is costs, which is also why they're using natural sunlight instead of electricity. It wouldn't be a profitable business otherwise.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> It is probably very difficult to manage algae in such conditions.


probably the largest factor on a commercial operation.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkMcyHLxYQc&feature=related Doesn't look too bad to me. Although the plants are completely mis-identified in the title. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPFwuRK4Hq4&feature=relmfu emersed grass of some sort. 

...12 dollars a square foot. And what do they charge us? 3 bucks for a 1.5" pot?


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Also, a lot of markets grow them in vitro (micropropagation), which I am planning on doing in the near future. Also, growing them emersed is SO MUCH EASIER, I have a 75g emersed and only thing I need to maintain is trimming so it doesn't get overgrown.


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## Optix (May 31, 2011)

faster growth, free sunlight, free co2, less algae

bam...successful business


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Not only are emmersed plants easier to care for as a nursery, some plants that are sold will only make the two day trip as an emersed plant. Some of the finicy plants dont take shipping well and you can buy three or four times.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Hmmm. I've thought about all these things, but it seems to me submerged plants ship well enough for us to do it all the time through the swap and shop. And submerged plants can be lit with natural sunlight just as easily as emersed plants, using raceway channels the way they do now, only deeper, submerging the plants. And fertilizer could be something as simple as keeping fish inside these channels, along with using nutrient-enriched soil substrate. This all leaves CO2 as the only real expense, and the last time I checked, CO2 gas is pretty cheap, especially in large volumes.

So, the question remains, is cultivating submerged plants on a large scale entirely impractical, or is it that we just do it the other way because it's always been done that way? Obviously I'm okay with purchasing emersed plants at the LFS, as I've been doing it for like 8 years now, and still do.

I just think that I would probably pay a few dollars more per plant if I could buy good-looking, submerged-cultivated plants. This way I could start an aquascape right from the very beginning with completely grown, lush, and colorful plants that would instantly fill the space I wanted them to fill, instead of having to wait, trim, wait some more, trim some more, and all the while telling people, "No, it's gonna look sweet in a few more weeks, I promise."

I know this sounds blasphemous to many people, because most of us here are gardeners (I imagine?) and enjoy the growth process and the wabi-sabi-ness of it all, and this includes myself... but then there are other people who just want the aquarium to be like living art in their house, and want it to look good right from the start, and so it got me thinking. Hence this thread.

Any more thoughts out of anyone on this matter? Submerged plants just really aren't an option in our hobby? I mean, when people need lots of plants at once, anyway?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Emersed growth is multiple times faster, cheaper, and more economical. Pumping co2 into swimming pool size operations at astronomical levels while preventing algae would me next to impossible. 

Not to sound like a naysayer... but if it was easy to do, someone would be doing it. 

The cost of growing plants submerged at large scale would make them cost prohibitive. 

Remember, a majority of the plants consumed in our hobby are not done so by "serious" hobbyists. They are people who just grab them at the lfs or get a hair up their butt and by them online from a big store. People complain about paying 10 dollars for a large sword or crypt. The cost to grow them at a profitable speed and quality submersed would easily triple that.


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## CaptainPictusIII (Oct 22, 2011)

I just don't understand people. In a few weeks people will pay $60 for a crappy tree that will last 5 days before it dies, but they don't want to pay $10 dollars for a plant they can have for years if they take care of it.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

CaptainPictusIII said:


> I just don't understand people. In a few weeks people will pay $60 for a crappy tree that will last 5 days before it dies, but they don't want to pay $10 dollars for a plant they can have for years if they take care of it.


At 10 dollars per plant it would cost me a thousand dollars to fill my tank. The same reason people buy fake christmas trees... 

When you can buy the same plant for a dollar, 10 dollars doesn't make much sense. It is also not going to be spectacular for the environment.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

The only way to get submerged plant at a reasonable cost is to harvest from the wild in those co2 enriched springs.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Some kinds of plants are more difficult in this respect than others, but most will make the transition fine if you just have some patience and give them some time.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

hydrophyte said:


> Some kinds of plants are more difficult in this respect than others, but most will make the transition fine if you just have some patience and give them some time.


Also, the plants that are sensitive to this transition often melt and fade due to the simple change in water parameters anyways. So from emersed to submersed doesn't change much.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

Church said:


> Hmmm. I've thought about all these things, but it seems to me submerged plants ship well enough for us to do it all the time through the swap and shop. And submerged plants can be lit with natural sunlight just as easily as emersed plants, using raceway channels the way they do now, only deeper, submerging the plants. And fertilizer could be something as simple as keeping fish inside these channels, along with using nutrient-enriched soil substrate. This all leaves CO2 as the only real expense, and the last time I checked, CO2 gas is pretty cheap, especially in large volumes.
> 
> So, the question remains, is cultivating submerged plants on a large scale entirely impractical, or is it that we just do it the other way because it's always been done that way? Obviously I'm okay with purchasing emersed plants at the LFS, as I've been doing it for like 8 years now, and still do.
> 
> ...


Cultivating submersed plants can be done, but if you were opening a business what would your business plan be?

A: Fully submersed plants, extra cost, very small market, less profit.

B: Emersed, grown at a marginal cost, higher profit then submersed. 

Plants as a whole in the *Aquarium* hobby is a very very small part, you have too think of the hobby as a whole (fish tanks, stands, filters, all other equipment, fish, gravel/substrate, decor) that is just in a freshwater tank, you also have to understand that saltwater is there too which is a completely separate area of the *Aquarium *hobby. 

A nursery is worried about stores buying plants, and the cheapest way too get it too that point for them with the most profit. How many stores would pay more for submersed plants? You may say you would be willing too, but there bottom line is getting plants too the fish stores is the distributors main concern, it is the fish stores responsibility too get them out of the door. If 5% of all aquarium keepers(fresh and salties) buy aquarium plants, from a production stand point it would not be a smart choice too raise production costs for a very narrow (and competitive) market, times are rough and struggling Mom and Pop stores will go with the cheaper supplier.


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## weatherwatcher (Jul 26, 2015)

I have just had one of those once in a not so often disasters. I brought a new 4 foot tank 2 years ago, and I have just kept my lutino oscar a large plec and 3 red sholdered sevs in there. The wife shouted me at 10.30 p.m, the tank, that was all, when I got downstairs, most of the water was on the floor, so the fish went into a bucket and I rang my mate at 100.30 p.m got him very grummpily out of bed to see if he could take my fish, so at midnight I set off hoping the police didn't pull me over as it would take some explaining, that you where only taking 4 fish to your mates house officer, would he believe yo or not..
Anyway when the tank was drained and dried out, all the silicon at the bottom of the tank, could be peeled off with no problems, so it was a very bodge job who ever did the sealing. I have been told at me local store that some firms now do all the sealing of tanks by robotic arms. If this was the case then my riobot must have had a bad hair day.
I have now decided to leave the fish with my mate and go back to a plated tank, I have started the tank off with a dry start with moss and hair grass, these will now stay that way until the end of August. they are in a soil base covered with gravel.
Luckily I have space in my greenhouse to put a 3 foot and a 2 foot tank, in which I have started off around 40 plants in pots of the same soil, so when the time comes they can go straight into the tank, they are all fully submerges, so no witing time to get them them sorted out.
I live in the UK, I am going to see how these plants go in their pots in the greenhouse, I don't heat it in winter so this year will be ruled out, but if they are sucessful, then next year I will turn over one side of my greenhouse to produce plants in pots that are all fully submerged.
It will only be on a small scale, but I am sure that if the plants are well looked after, in the first place then I hope there will be a market out there for them. So now it is a wait and see how things go. If I can get the plants to really go well for me, then I hope I can sell them for prices well below the plants that are on offer from, swellers who buy them from plant growers abroad, most of them being sold as cuttings that need to be rooted, a disaster if you have some boisterous fish in your tank. It as got to be better buying plants that are in pots with a good root system and ready to go than the usual bunches of plants we see, some of them looking like they had been exposed to a butcher knife, or literally ripped out the ground and then wrapped in floss with a lead strip around them, only to find when you get them home, no roots or very little root left on the plant, it is no wonder that people go off trying to plant a tank when so many plants die on them after a week in their tank. So heres hoping all goes well and to a new venture next year.


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