# BGA in new tank, Dosing EI, still there. Best solution?



## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

I set up my 50g about a month ago. It originally had some plants from old tank with cyanobacteria. Over the past week, I started injecting CO2, Dosing EI, and aquascaped it with a bunch of new plants.

BGA is not out of control, but I thought it would go away when CO2 and EI. Every couple days I have to knock it off driftwood and some leaf tips. I'd like to wipe it out.

E.M Erythromycin is supposed to do the trick, does it adversely affect plants and snails?

Also someone recommended Chemiclean, but product description is that it cleans stains caused by BGA.

Then there is Hydrogen Peroxide. I've heard it can be spot treated, but will this eventually kill all the BGA or will I be playing Whack-a-mole constantly?

What about circulation? My 4' tank only has a SunSun 302b canister (250gph or less) and a sponge filter with bubbler. Would adding a wavemaker to circulate oxygen help solve this problem long term? I read it is caused by lack of nitrogen (using EI) or anerobic conditions.

Finally, there is lights out. I've just set up CO2 and EI, trying to find balance and plants are just rooting and starting to grow. Dont want to go dark right now.


Best option?


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## RyRob (May 30, 2015)

Manual removal and water changes. 

Cyano can and will thrive in practically any condition. High light/low light, high flow/low flow, high nutrients/low nutrients, doesn't matter. Treating it chemically may help the short term but getting to the root cause is the answer. 

For me, cyano is usually the result of letting too much detritus settle for too long. Usually under the sheets of cyano is a layer of detritus. Has nothing to do with flow or light or nutrient dosing. Detritus build up. So diligent manual removal and water changes usually helps me out. 

Honestly, I never would have transferred plants with cyano to a new tank. That's just asking for trouble. A 20:1 water:bleach solution can be used to dip plants before transfer and if you can easily remove and replace them from the tank. 

H202 (hydrogen peroxide) can be used with varying results. Just spot dose with with reduced water level and no circulation.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

I got some Hydrogen Peroxide to test on spot treatment.

I ordered some Chemiclean because I think it will help me start from a "clean slate".

Erythmycyn is relatively expensive to dose this size tank. If the Chemiclean works, it is a much better deal.

The 50g tank only has a few small cichlids, nothing else besides plants. It's been setup a bit over a month and the substrate is still fairly clean. Except for the driftwood which I boiled before introducing... but most of the BGA starts on the wood. I should probably boil those pieces again. Maybe dip in bleach. Yes, I will bleach dip them tomorrow.

I agree putting BGA infested pots and plants in the tank was a bad idea. I didnt know it was a bacteria, I thought it was just run of the mill algae that would be fixed by EI.

Doing EI, I am performing 50% weekly.

All the reading I've done has taught me that BGA does not mean I'm doing a "bad" job, just that I haven't yet taken the steps to eliminate and/or control it.

I'm sure there are people who dont have the BGA problem but it may be related to how many phosphates are in the tap water. There is some luck involved.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

It is always beyond me why people assume EI is a safeguard against algae...


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

Axelrodi202 said:


> It is always beyond me why people assume EI is a safeguard against algae...


basically this

BGA is easy... only shows up for me if the tank is dirty and I am running too much light. Manual removal and regular water changes to keep things clean are all you need and it will disappear.

EI and CO2 don't just 'make algae go away'. This would not make sense. EI and CO2 help plants grow and stay healthy.

need pics of the tank to fully assess but usually BGA is symptom of dirty tank (low flow can contribute to this), too much light, not enough plants. you do not mention what type of light you have but I am going to guess you are nuking your tank with light and do not have the proper plant mass to handle it. 99% of the time this is the reason for algae/BGA-related issues.

also I don't think you're 'doomed' by transferring plants with BGA to another tank... it is not some kind of deadly disease that you can't get rid of. like I said once you treat the root cause and keep the outbreak under control it should go away on its own and never return.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

klibs said:


> need pics of the tank to fully assess but usually BGA is symptom of dirty tank (low flow can contribute to this), too much light, not enough plants. you do not mention what type of light you have but I am going to guess you are nuking your tank with light and do not have the proper plant mass to handle it. 99% of the time this is the reason for algae/BGA-related issues.


Tank is not dirty. EI dosing, weekly 50% wc, bottom vac. Although it is sand over MGOC and tank has been set up only a month, planted for less than two weeks. Very low fish load. I do have two missing nerite snails which may be decomposing in substrate... but at end of week Nitrates only 40ppm.

Youre right, probably too much light. But if the tank can't handle this much light with full EI and 30ppm+ CO2, how will it ever? These are DIY 3W leds, roughly equivalent to a GreenElement EVO 48", which most people consider medium.

Bump:


Axelrodi202 said:


> It is always beyond me why people assume EI is a safeguard against algae...


EI + CO2 + light.... All the plants are growing well, growing 2-6" /week. Starting to carpet.

EI obv is not a safeguard against the algae. I'm surprised I'm seeing explosive plant growth and BGA, while not seeing actual algae.

-------

I just doesed with Chemiclean and will do a 3 day blackout. Use less light when lights are back on monday.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

BGA is the result of an inadequate bio-filter (actual bio-filter+Plant uptake) for giving light. It's that simple. The stuff about low nitrate is BS in my opinion. Might be some truth to it if nitrate was so low that it impeded plant uptake.

How heavily planted is the tank?


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> BGA is the result of an inadequate bio-filter (actual bio-filter+Plant uptake) for giving light. It's that simple. The stuff abut low nitrate is a BS in my opinion. Might be some truth to it if nitrate was so low that it impeded plant uptake.


You mean my Canister filter is not processing enough waste? I have a SunSun 302 with three trays, and a bottle filter with another pound of ceramic noodles and a sponge run by a large pump..Total 5# ceramic media, various sponges and polyfil. Ammonia and nitrites zero. Are you saying better filtration would help?

Or are you saying Nitrates are too high? EI dosing brings up Nitrates 40ppm. Are you saying I should dose less nitrates?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

If your tank is only a month old you have an immature bio-filter regardless of what the test kits say. How heavily planted is it? How long have the lights been on from the getgo?


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> If your tank is only a month old you have an immature bio-filter regardless of what the test kits say. How heavily planted is it? How long have the lights been on from the getgo?


The filters are from a tank that was set up eight months ago. Fully cycled, just moved everything from the 29g to the 50g.

Try again.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

ChrisX said:


> Try again.


Comments like this aren't going to get you very far and acting like you know what's wrong when clearly you don't. You're better suited to answer the questions that are asked from people like @houseofcards who know what they're talking about. 

Your bio-filter is not just you "cycled" filter you moved over from your previous tank. It's all over everything in your tank and needs time to mature. As others have stated manual removal and clean your tank is the best option. 

FYI, your first mistake was moving plants that were already infected over to your new tank.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

I asked him for specific advice and he snubbed me by telling me my filter was inadequate, but he didnt tell me what to do to adress that particular problem. Being honest i felt he was being condescending, and now im being scolded by one of his minions.

We are ten posts into the thread and despite physical removal and large wcs (which im already doing) ive learned nothing new. Just another expert taking shots in the dark.

I dosed chemiclean, and am doing 3 day blackout as suggested by tb and others.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

ChrisX said:


> I asked him for specific advice and he snubbed me by telling me my filter was inadequate, but he didnt tell me what to do to adress that particular problem. Being honest i felt he was being condescending, and now im being scolded by one of his minions.
> 
> We are ten posts into the thread and despite physical removal and large wcs (which im already doing) ive learned nothing new. Just another expert taking shots in the dark.
> 
> I dosed chemiclean, and am doing 3 day blackout as suggested by tb and others.


I think you misunderstood what he said. He stated that your bio-filter was immature not your actual canister filter. Bio-filter pertains to all the beneficial bacteria in the tank and within your actual filter.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Nlewis said:


> I think you misunderstood what he said. He stated that your bio-filter was immature not your actual canister filter. Bio-filter pertains to all the beneficial bacteria in the tank and within your actual filter.


This @ChrisX

I snubbed you? I'm trying to help you understand whats going on. Are you under the mistaken believe that if you transfer a canister filter from another tank that your "bio-filter" is complete? Do you really think once a tank matures the majority of your bio-filter is in that small amount of media house in your filter compared to the entire 50g tank including the plants, substrate and other surfaces?

BTW I also asked you twice "How heavily planted it is" in an effort to gather more information and you never responded to it.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Comments like this aren't going to get you very far and acting like you know what's wrong when clearly you don't.


This is how OP rolls. In his thread about maintaining a low tech tank he did the same thing. When people ( myself included) tried to explain that CO2 wasn't a magic bullet, he insisted that it is. Here we are and the magic bullet has proven to not to be so magical. Nitrates were another issue that clearly he has not addressed. Again, he was told to knock them back for the plants he kept and he continues to insist that EI is going to spare him yet more grief. 

Dealing with nitrates is not hard. If the plants are not using what they are being fed, then it is time to ease back on them. This is not complicated, nor is it somehow 'starving' plants to death. Simple water testing tells a person what direction they need to go in. As plants grow and demand more food, a person can up the dose. Dirted tanks have even more issues with this as the soil that is most commonly recommended and used is chaulked full of nitrates so water changes are necessary to get them under control. This too was explained to OP and he stuck fingers in his ears and kept going back to his standby that nobody understands, ect...

This tank is new, plants have only been in the tank for 2 weeks. They are not going to consume 40 ppm of nitrates as they are still in the process of getting settled. If he wants to make the argument that his tank does use this amount on weekly basis, he can chart nitrate testing for a week and see how it goes. If he is having BGA outbreaks, plants are not using it.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

Smooch said:


> If the plants are not using what they are being fed, then it is time to ease back on them.


This is good advice

I am still going to go out on a limb to say you don't have enough plant mass for your light levels. I have said it a million times and I will say it again: higher light, CO2, EI only 'works' if you have a lot of healthy plant mass that balances things out. Like Smooch mentioned, this takes a handful of weeks for plants to settle in and really begin to gain a lot of mass. If your tank is really not heavily planted then you need to tone back the light and things will likely become easier

again though, without pics I can't say for sure. a few full tank pics are the best way to get good advice on this stuff


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Smooch said:


> This is how OP rolls. In his thread about maintaining a low tech tank he did the same thing. When people ( myself included) tried to explain that CO2 wasn't a magic bullet, he insisted that it is. Here we are and the magic bullet has proven to not to be so magical. Nitrates were another issue that clearly he has not addressed. Again, he was told to knock them back for the plants he kept and he continues to insist that EI is going to spare him yet more grief.
> 
> Dealing with nitrates is not hard. If the plants are not using what they are being fed, then it is time to ease back on them. This is not complicated, nor is it somehow 'starving' plants to death. Simple water testing tells a person what direction they need to go in. As plants grow and demand more food, a person can up the dose. Dirted tanks have even more issues with this as the soil that is most commonly recommended and used is chaulked full of nitrates so water changes are necessary to get them under control. This too was explained to OP and he stuck fingers in his ears and kept going back to his standby that nobody understands, ect...
> 
> This tank is new, plants have only been in the tank for 2 weeks. They are not going to consume 40 ppm of nitrates as they are still in the process of getting settled. If he wants to make the argument that his tank does use this amount on weekly basis, he can chart nitrate testing for a week and see how it goes. If he is having BGA outbreaks, plants are not using it.


Dude, that is not at all what happened. Magic bullet? No. Abilty to grow any kind of plant you want? Yes. Ability to have fast growth to help propagate stems? Yes.

You are making straw man arguments and attributing them to me. Its never fun to have someone put words in your mouth. But I'm sure you know that this kind of attack is sure to get a response. I probably should be wiser and not respond.

I'm really happy I went high-tech, plants are growing like weeds. Also really glad I dosed Chemiclean. BGA is virtually gone.

Bump:


klibs said:


> This is good advice
> 
> I am still going to go out on a limb to say you don't have enough plant mass for your light levels. I have said it a million times and I will say it again: higher light, CO2, EI only 'works' if you have a lot of healthy plant mass that balances things out. Like Smooch mentioned, this takes a handful of weeks for plants to settle in and really begin to gain a lot of mass. If your tank is really not heavily planted then you need to tone back the light and things will likely become easier
> 
> again though, without pics I can't say for sure. a few full tank pics are the best way to get good advice on this stuff


Yes, this may be the case. I have dialed back EI dosing last week to 1/2. May dial back light but there isn't an algae problem.

However, I did start with alot of full size plants, the tank is nearly filled and ready for a big trim. Surely more plant mass than a tank recently started with tissue cultures.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

pic


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

hmmm you have quite a good plant mass going on there and everything looks to be healthy. I always ask for pics to diagnose anything because often times users with similar issues will have like 1/10th the plant mass of your tank and none of the plants look healthy.

it looks like you are on the right track... IMO any tank less than like 2 months old is still unstable and is more prone to weird issues before becoming fully established. if the BGA is virtually gone I would honestly not even worry about it. If you keep things clean like you are then it should just go away on its own. again, each of the few times I got a few patches of BGA I just cleaned it up, did a few extra water changes, and maybe lowered light a bit. it did not come back. if it comes back in this tank again I would be surprised.

Not sure if you mentioned this before but where were you seeing the BGA? on plants? substrate? in particular areas? how much was there? was it getting to be a problem or were there a few small patches that you could easily handle at water change time?

keep trimming those stems and you will have a jungle in no time lol


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

klibs said:


> hmmm you have quite a good plant mass going on there and everything looks to be healthy. I always ask for pics to diagnose anything because often times users with similar issues will have like 1/10th the plant mass of your tank and none of the plants look healthy.
> 
> it looks like you are on the right track... IMO any tank less than like 2 months old is still unstable and is more prone to weird issues before becoming fully established. if the BGA is virtually gone I would honestly not even worry about it. If you keep things clean like you are then it should just go away on its own. again, each of the few times I got a few patches of BGA I just cleaned it up, did a few extra water changes, and maybe lowered light a bit. it did not come back. if it comes back in this tank again I would be surprised.
> 
> ...


BGA was on the driftwood, substrate, within some of the pearlweed, and starting to cover the MC. I was using a toothbrush to knock it off plants on micro days, but when it started on the MC, thats when I needed to take action. 

When I set up the tank, I introduced BGA on some potted hygrophilia I put in from the old tank. Its since been removed. I'm not sure if conditions are favorable to BGA or if introducing a large amount of it early on caused this.


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