# staurogyne repens in low light/low tech. will it survive?



## Yo-han

This plant grows perfect in low tech and without the natural light, your tank is low light and this plant will grow. Slow, but steady. About the ferts and co2: for this amount of lights I don't think you need co2 (although it would help every tank to look more vibrant) but ferts are recommended. (at least a trace mix)

Good look with this beautiful easy foreground plant!


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## pandamonium

thanks yo-han that is great to hear  what is a trace mix of ferts? i only have flourish comprehensive right now. will i need others?


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## Complexity

Flourish Comprehensive is basically a trace mix. As per their website, it contains "micro elements, trace elements and other nutrients." http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html

For a full fertilization program, you'd normally also dose macro ferts. You could stick with the Seachem line or use dry ferts (or not dose them at all for a low tech setup).

Seachem line:
Nitrogen http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishNitrogen.html
Potassium http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishPotassium.html
Phosphorus http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishPhosphorus.html

Dry ferts (much cheaper - this would last you at least a year or two):
http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html

For people who use dry ferts, they often also use dry trace, as well since it's so much cheaper. This is the dry equivalent of Flourish Comprehensive. You just add the water yourself.
Plantex CSM+B: http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/plantex-csmb.html


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## pandamonium

ok i see. so just to make sure i get it.
flourish comprehensive is basically the same as the dry ferts but it is pre mixed. and in smaller doses
if i did the seachem line i would have to get all 3 of those to have a full fert setup
if i did the full dry ferts, would that be then macro and micro ferts all in one? thus it would be the best deal?
and if i bought the plantex CSM+B it would be like a waterless flourish comprehensive. all i have to do is add the water myself? and by using this would i need any other ferts to accomany it in a low tech tank?


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## farrenator

pandamonium said:


> ok i see. so just to make sure i get it.
> flourish comprehensive is basically the same as the dry ferts but it is pre mixed. and in smaller doses


No. flourish comprehensive is a Micronutrient fertilizer mixed with water. The dry equivalent is CSM+B - I actually like CSM+B better. In my tank I had an iron deficiency when dosing Flourish Comprehensive. When I switched to CSM+B the plants got greener. BUT, this is in a high tech CO2 tank. Your tank may be different since it is low light and the plants will not be growing as fast.



> if i did the seachem line i would have to get all 3 of those to have a full fert setup


Full fert setup is Macronutrients (Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium) + Micronutrients



> if i did the full dry ferts, would that be then macro and micro ferts all in one? thus it would be the best deal?


There is no Macro+Micro all in one, in either liquid or dry form. This is because some of the micronutrients (iron I believe) precipitate out when mixed with the Macros (I can't remember which one).



> and if i bought the plantex CSM+B it would be like a waterless flourish comprehensive. all i have to do is add the water myself?


Yes, but no need to mix it with water before dosing. I dry dose it straight into the tank.



> and by using this would i need any other ferts to accomany it in a low tech tank?


 In your low tech tank, you may just need to dose micros since you may get enough Nitrogen and Phosphorous from the fish food and poo.


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## Complexity

farrenator explained it very well. So just to recap so it all fits together...

A full fert setup includes macros and micros. They are not combined. They are dosed on opposite days (so you'd dose macros on Monday, micros on Tuesday, macros on Wednesday, micros on Thursday, etc).

If you wanted to do a full setup of ferts using the Seachem line, here's what you would need:
Macros: N (Flourish Nitrogen), P (Flourish Phosphorus), and K (Flourish Potassium)
Micros: Flourish Comprehensive, and Flourish Iron​If you wanted to do a full setup of ferts using the dry ferts line, here's what you would need:
Macros: N (Nitrate KNO3), P (Phosphate KH2PO4), and K (Potassium K2SO4)
Micros: CSM+B (iron's already included)​Because the dry ferts are 100% of what you need without the water, you're getting a ton more when you buy them compared to what you get in the Seachem bottles. That's why everyone talks about how cheap dry ferts are. All you do is use a measuring spoon to measure out the amount you need and dump it in the tank. You can premix it with water if you want, but it's not required.

As ferrenator said, you don't necessarily need a full fert lineup since you're not using bright lights and CO2. You can get away with just dosing micros. But if you ever wanted to dose all the ferts, now you have some idea of what matches up with what when you buy the Seachem ferts.

The name of "Comprehensive" is highly misleading since it implies that it is a complete fertilizer when in actuality, it's only the micro ferts without the iron. It's far from complete. But it does contain all the micro ferts you need so in that sense it is complete. So it's a complete micro fert (without iron). It is not a complete fertilizer.


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## pandamonium

oh i see. yes i was pretty mislead then by the comprehensive on the flourish bottle. i still have my flourish comp but no iron. i guess then i can live without it til i go through this bottle then i will buy the dry CSM+B dry ferts. should save me a lot of time and effort. 
at this point in my tanks life, i only have 3 honeycomb cats, 7 lemon tetras, 2 otos, 3 gbrs, and 1 hatchetfish. im not sure if they will produce enough waste to keep my plants healthy. i just got a shipment of plants from someone on the forums so i rescaped my tank. im running a lot of s. repens, about 1/4 of the pennywort i had previously, same frogbit, some nodes (about 5) of blyxa, and some sunset hygro in the back (i am in california so i believe it is legal to own here). would this still be considered not too highly planted? i would take a pic but its lights out for my tank right now. i will take one tomorwo and post it. if i need more lighting or CO2 please let me know and ill see what i can work with. 
going off on the s. repens, i believe i got trimmings in my package. all i did was prune off the dead leaves (not many) so i could stick the stems into the substrate. from here, will the s. repens just grow roots on its own and begin to grow upwards? 
going off that question back to the ferts. as s. repens is a rooted plant and i dont see any visible water column roots, like those of pennywort, will i have to use root tabs for them, as well as the other plants?


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## Bananariot

Lol I'm torching my tank with too high light for S. repens.......grrr....


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## pandamonium

what i read was that high light causes s. repens to spread laterally as opposed to vertically. in my tank, if it survives of course, it would probably grow up since my lighting is not that intense.


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## Bananariot

pandamonium said:


> what i read was that high light causes s. repens to spread laterally as opposed to vertically. in my tank, if it survives of course, it would probably grow up since my lighting is not that intense.


Yep.....mine's super overkill since the 12 gal long is super shallow. No nutrients to keep up with the light. It's like giving a vegetable an epinephrine shot. I have to now risk my life with a paintball co2 setup that's running 800 psi hoping it doesn';t blow a hole through my house.....because i'm too cheap to buy an expensive regulator.


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## pandamonium

i may upgrade to higher lighting but stay away from CO2. no need to make my dad do anything extra while i am at school. now that i found that wholesale place, im thinking of doing higher lighting, UV sterilizer and protein skimmer...all for under 100 dollars. actually might be exactly 100 haha winning. just last week i bought 7 feet of high grade silicone tubing for i think $1.50
but with regards to the s. repens, i hope that it will grow well. so i can start making patches of it. if its like pennywort or other stem plants, then im good to go


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## darkoon

pandamonium said:


> i may upgrade to higher lighting but stay away from CO2. no need to make my dad do anything extra while i am at school. now that i found that wholesale place, im thinking of doing higher lighting, UV sterilizer and protein skimmer...all for under 100 dollars. actually might be exactly 100 haha winning. just last week i bought 7 feet of high grade silicone tubing for i think $1.50
> but with regards to the s. repens, i hope that it will grow well. so i can start making patches of it. if its like pennywort or other stem plants, then im good to go


without co2, higher lighting might not do you any good. always invest in co2 before lighting.


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## shrimpNewbie

Protein skimmer=useless for freshwater

Also higher light + co2 for the win


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## pandamonium

darkoon said:


> without co2, higher lighting might not do you any good. always invest in co2 before lighting.


in that case, i may just stay with the lighting i have. my plants may grow slowly but im sure it wont be too bad. less pruning haha



shrimpNewbie said:


> Protein skimmer=useless for freshwater
> 
> Also higher light + co2 for the win


thanks for this info  saves me from making a bad decision. however is UV still recommended?


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## shrimpNewbie

I personnaly say not to use one all the time but have a good one on hand in case of green water or ich or bacterial infections. Again great to have available but not for constant use


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## Complexity

pandamonium said:


> however is UV still recommended?


Generally speaking, it's not needed. However, there are a few instances when one comes in handy.


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## pandamonium

ok there is a place by me that sells a 9W UV sterilizer for 34 dollars bulb included. its rated for 900gph in a 90 gallon tank. would this be a good investment if i need it? or is the money better spent elsewhere? 
also regarding lights. i may want to up my lighting a bit just because the hood that came with this tank is very low quality for floating plants especially. what sort of light would be good for this tank. right now i am running 4 13W CFL bulbs 6500K with aluminum tape reflectors. the bulbs are spaced to span the tank width. should i cave in and purchase a t5ho fixture? how often would i replace bulbs and how many watts should i aim for or how large should it be (my tank is a 40 gallon breeder, length 36 inches, depth 16 inches). i know watts are a terirble way to measure lighting but its the only parameter i can use to distinguish one fixture from another

also, will s. repens require root tabs?


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## Complexity

The uv sterilizer would work well if you ever get green water (most people don't get it). In order for it to be any good for bacteria and parasites, you'd have to hook it up in a way that prevents the water from flowing through it too fast. The bacteria and parasites must have long enough contact with the uv bulb to be killed. If the water flows through the sterilizer too fast, then the bacteria and parasites just fly right by unharmed (kind of like how you can pass your hand through an open flame -- to get burned, you have to hold it there for awhile).

If the sterilizer the store is selling is the Green Killing Machine, then buy it only when (and if) you get green water. Otherwise, it's useless.

To give you some kind of example, the uv sterilizer I bought for my 75g tank is the 12x 36w turbo twist which is rated for a 500g tank. Even then, I can't say for sure it would be terribly effective against bacteria or parasites. I can only hope.

Plus, you can't run a uv sterilizer on the days you dose iron (which is in dry micro ferts) because it precipitates the iron out. So I have mine on a timer to run only at night. I've heard pros and cons regarding the efficacy of running it at night only.

So in other words... spend the money on something else unless you have an outbreak of green water. Then you may want to consider getting a uv sterilizer.


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## pandamonium

ok then im going to save the money and get something more useful like fish or more plants. thanks for the breakdown vicki


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## Bananariot

LOL DO IT BUY UV AND DOSE IRON. I ACTUALLY MIGHT DO THAT juST TO sEE It lol....


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## pandamonium

lololol precipitate iron inside your UV sterilizer. my guess is it would clog it and shatter the UV lamp or just lead to a busted tubing so either bomb or flood. and second guess is massive electrocution. better not have your hands in the tank hahaha. im gonna ask weir to do it. btw dude does s. repens need root tabs?


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## Complexity

pandamonium said:


> ok then im going to save the money and get something more useful like fish or more plants. thanks for the breakdown vicki


You're welcome. :smile:



pandamonium said:


> lololol precipitate iron inside your UV sterilizer. my guess is it would clog it and shatter the UV lamp or just lead to a busted tubing so either bomb or flood. and second guess is massive electrocution. better not have your hands in the tank hahaha. im gonna ask weir to do it. btw dude does s. repens need root tabs?


WTF? :icon_eek: Did the meds wear off? :icon_lol:


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## pandamonium

haha im guessing not  talking about meds im ending my ich treatment today so finally gonna remove my meds from the tank


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## pandamonium

so i was thinking about using higher light and possibly adding DIY yeast CO2 to my tank to help the plants out. any opinions on it? my main concern is a high pH swing though increased CO2 would lower my pH making it good for this biotope.


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## Bananariot

The pH swing isn't too bad. The hagen one was pretty weak. Less swing if less co2 diffuses, so you can always adjust the height of the diffuser.


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## shrimpNewbie

Complexity said:


> The uv sterilizer would work well if you ever get green water (most people don't get it). In order for it to be any good for bacteria and parasites, you'd have to hook it up in a way that prevents the water from flowing through it too fast. The bacteria and parasites must have long enough contact with the uv bulb to be killed. If the water flows through the sterilizer too fast, then the bacteria and parasites just fly right by unharmed (kind of like how you can pass your hand through an open flame -- to get burned, you have to hold it there for awhile).
> 
> If the sterilizer the store is selling is the Green Killing Machine, then buy it only when (and if) you get green water. Otherwise, it's useless.
> 
> To give you some kind of example, the uv sterilizer I bought for my 75g tank is the 12x 36w turbo twist which is rated for a 500g tank. Even then, I can't say for sure it would be terribly effective against bacteria or parasites. I can only hope.
> 
> Plus, you can't run a uv sterilizer on the days you dose iron (which is in dry micro ferts) because it precipitates the iron out. So I have mine on a timer to run only at night. I've heard pros and cons regarding the efficacy of running it at night only.
> 
> So in other words... spend the money on something else unless you have an outbreak of green water. Then you may want to consider getting a uv sterilizer.


This! Plus if you have a pump that can run a closed loop at around 30-40gph max with a strong enough single to double stage sterilizer comes in handy when dealing with bacterial infections along with ich. I remember when I was keeping green terrors how useful my uv sterilizer was, I ran it with a polisher ahead of it and at around 20gph I ran I once every month for a week and sure enough it kept my terrors free of illness and the water crystal clear. They bred for me a bit too. Always something good to have but you don't want a strong pump running it


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## pandamonium

i will probably not do a UV sterilizer. i dont have much room in my tank or under the cabinet to keep all the equipment so i gotta see. though its good to know that in the event i need one, its cheap near me


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## neueklare_ein

This plant is actually one of the hardiest plants that you can find...!


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## pandamonium

neueklare_ein that is a great thing to hear. i dont know much about it since it is relatively new, or so im told. it is doing well so far in my tank, 2 days in. knock on wood  do you know how to propagate it? im assuming since it is a stem plant, you just trim the top off and replant it?


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## Bananariot

pandamonium said:


> neueklare_ein that is a great thing to hear. i dont know much about it since it is relatively new, or so im told. it is doing well so far in my tank, 2 days in. knock on wood  do you know how to propagate it? im assuming since it is a stem plant, you just trim the top off and replant it?


That is the general idea. Most of the s. repens you see for sale are just trims. I didn't even cut off the old leaves so they are dying, but new leaves are coming in its place. hardy plant


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## pandamonium

i didnt either. just trimmed off enough to have a stem to plant into the substrate. some got pulled out yesterday night by a rowdy catfish and it is starting to grow roots which is awesome. some of the plants i was given also had roots so that was great


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## gil_ong

Complexity said:


> If you wanted to do a full setup of ferts using the dry ferts line, here's what you would need:
> Macros: N (Nitrate KNO3), P (Phosphate KH2PO4), and K (Potassium K2SO4)
> Micros: CSM+B (iron's already included)​Because the dry ferts are 100% of what you need without the water, you're getting a ton more when you buy them compared to what you get in the Seachem bottles. That's why everyone talks about how cheap dry ferts are. All you do is use a measuring spoon to measure out the amount you need and dump it in the tank. You can premix it with water if you want, but it's not required.


i have a tank full of shrimp. will iron harm them? or is that just copper?

also, is it really necessary to dose every other day on a regular basis?

i have a 1.5-yr old with #2 on it's way. you can imagine how less work = more awesome.


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## Opie. X fury

pandamonium said:


> ok i see. so just to make sure i get it.
> flourish comprehensive is basically the same as the dry ferts but it is pre mixed. and in smaller doses
> if i did the seachem line i would have to get all 3 of those to have a full fert setup
> if i did the full dry ferts, would that be then macro and micro ferts all in one? thus it would be the best deal?
> and if i bought the plantex CSM+B it would be like a waterless flourish comprehensive. all i have to do is add the water myself? and by using this would i need any other ferts to accomany it in a low tech tank?


Or you can just use aquarium co up easy green fertilizer. It has macro and micro. There is one thing they are missing iron I think or ma but u can just add that with seachem iron.


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## jake21

deleted - old thread.


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## Chucker

Folks, original post is ten years old. Use caution when looking at the "Recommended Reading" posts below a thread.


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