# Converting 100 gallon planted to Topsoil from garden shop journal



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi all,

I have been gathering info on this topic lately here, and on SimplyDiscus forum as well. I have 100 gallon planted established tank 5+ months, currently only 8 cherrybarbs and 3 corrys, I keep this tank for discus that I will add later. 

I outline everything below, please look at the pictures of the topsoil i found, if it is correct one, and look at my plan if its OK. I know in USA there are pre-made aquarium soils which are really nice, but we don't have them here, there are only about 5 LFS here and none carry such, so I decided to go diy route, with your help guys  I will post pictures here from my progress, to give an idea to people who are new to this soil thing like me. For me it is important to use regular soil in this experiment, and not special made brands, because it is cheap and available everywhere.

*Tank:*

About 450 Liters, 100 US gallon. Dimensions: 160cm length, 60cm height, 45cm width ( US measures: 62inch x 23" height x 18" width)
 Current lights 2 x 36W, 2500 lumens 6500K Philips T8 regular tubes (not any fancy aquarium brand) 
 Low-tech, adding liquid micro/macro nutrients on weekly basis.

*Below I will post pictures of:*

1) My new substrate plan figure
2) Topsoil + Organix soil mix from garden shop ( no chemical additives, no inorganics, home made)
3) Current tank substrate - small stones, 2-5 mm width. This will be used as cap for my new soil setup.


*Plan:*

*1)* Remove fish in a separate tank #2 (i have empty one), put canister from current tank to the tank #2, remove all plants, wood, and place them temporary there as well. I will use water from current tank, biomedia is in canister, so new tank is ready to go immediately.

*2)* Empty tank water, move current substrate aside

*3)* Mix new bought "topsoil" and "organix mix" into one substance and put directly on tank bottom (wet before putting in tank).

*4) *New soil will be 2 inches in the back of the tank, 1 inch in front. On top of it goes 1 inch rocky substrate from current tank.

*5)* Fill water about 5 inches above current new substrate, put plants immediately, wait everything to settle down, (a day maybe?)

*6)* check water parameters, if everything OK - put fish back.


*Questions:*
1) Did I buy the right soil to begin with, this is used in flower pots, bought from regular garden florist shop
2) Are my calculations of width of soil/substrate correct? If not, what should they be? I am planning to plant all sort of plants in the future, I like a lot from pictures I see online.
3) Is my current lightning OK for plant growth, if not what should it be?

Suggestions, and helpful critique is more than welcome!
Thanks in advance,
- MM


1) My new substrate plan figure








2) Soil(left), Organix mix - Vermicast, also called worm castings (right)








3) Current tank substrate, will be used as a cap for soil


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

You can click on images above, for bigger pictures. 
_*Oh an yeah - I forgot to mention, they also sell peat here, in bags, should I add that too? where too, and how, what would be proportions. 
*_
I appreciate all your help and suggestions.


----------



## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

Your best bet would be to mineralize it before you start. I use different brands of soil, and MGOCPM, and they can release ammonia as they break down. If you mineralize it beforehand you won't have that issue and it will be safer for your fauna. Another thing I do is add powdered clay to my mix. It has a high iron content, and a decent CEC ratio. You can get it cheap in any pottery store, I paid 12 bucks for 40lbs.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Sake said:


> Your best bet would be to mineralize it before you start. I use different brands of soil, and MGOCPM, and they can release ammonia as they break down. If you mineralize it beforehand you won't have that issue and it will be safer for your fauna. Another thing I do is add powdered clay to my mix. It has a high iron content, and a decent CEC ratio. You can get it cheap in any pottery store, I paid 12 bucks for 40lbs.


How do i mineralize it? I will look into clay, where i can get it..


----------



## dirtyplants (Dec 5, 2013)

Again I use soil (top soil) no ferts added, for base, I top about 1/8 of an inch with peat organic, then add sand my choice is volcanic because of its shape and resistance to compressing, quartz pool sand is my second choice, then I ad MVP, a clay baked at high temps. I add a little small gravel to it for weight because the clay is so light. It helps with anchoring the plants that have little on the root side. This is my recipe which works well for me.


----------



## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

Mineralizing is a huge pain and long process and hard to do in the winter months, unless you're lucky enough to live where its still warm. The soil on the left looks pretty good to go as it is. I'd mix in some plain, fired clay kitty little for the CEC properties and a thin layer of regular red clay for the iron content. Add some azomite to the mix for increased plant growth as well as some dolomite and potash and maybe some other dry ferts you can get your hands on. Cap it off and watch your plants take off.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks guys!


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

dirtyplants said:


> Again I use soil (top soil) no ferts added, for base, I top about 1/8 of an inch with peat organic, then add sand my choice is volcanic because of its shape and resistance to compressing, quartz pool sand is my second choice, then I ad MVP, a clay baked at high temps. I add a little small gravel to it for weight because the clay is so light. It helps with anchoring the plants that have little on the root side. This is my recipe which works well for me.


When u say -top about 1/8 of an inch with peat organic- :
Do i add peat on top of soil as another layer, or should i mix it with the soil? They sell peat here i can buy it no problem, clay still lookingfor it.

As for clay they sell in flower shop - expanded clay aggregate, its so lighht they sell it floats on water, loght and porous. Google search on wiki reveales it is made of cooked clay and slate.. What do u think?


----------



## aquabruce (May 10, 2012)

I think expanded clay aggregate is inert. I think it's more like a porous gravel for house plants and Hydroponics. I wonder how it would work as filter media, like EHEIM SUBSTRATpro.

You want something like a pottery clay. I don't know what you can get over there. I use Redart powdered clay.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

aquabruce said:


> I think expanded clay aggregate is inert. I think it's more like a porous gravel for house plants and Hydroponics.
> 
> You want something like a pottery clay. I don't know what you can get over there. I use Redart powdered clay.


I will go hunting for clay today.


----------



## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

Expanded clay aggregate is probably something similar to pearlite which is a good aerator.

I use the cheapest kitty litter you can buy. Just make sure it is plain white fired clay and doesn't have scents added. Its good at absorbing nutrients and slowly releasing them to the plants.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanded_clay_aggregate



> Expanded clay aggregate is a lightweight ceramic shell with honeycomb core produced by firing natural clay to temperatures of 1100–1200 °C in a rotating kiln. The pellets are rounded in shape and fall from the kiln in a grade of approximately 0–32 mm with an average dry bulk density of approximately 350 kg/m³. The material is sieved into a number of different grades to suit the application.


You could read more fro the link above.

What do u say? Shall i use it? In case i dont find clay.. Russian term is "керамзит", when i google russian aquarium forums, a lot of people are using it in their soil for planted tanks.


And how about peat? I heard its for reducing ph, does it do any good to soil? I found in flower shop, how much should i get? Do i layer it ontop of soil, or i mix it with the soil.

Hmm?


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

I just bought clay. Is it black inside , brown outside? Did i buy right stuff?

I couldnt find in petty small rounded shapes, mine are large couple centimeters, one inch width. I am planning to manyally break it into smaller pieces.

As far as i uderstand everything should be layered correct me if i am wrong, from to to bottom:

1. My original aquarium substrate
2. Clay
3. Soil mixed with peat.

What should be the hight of above layers? Is it better to have layer of clay, or crush it up and mix with the soil? 

Below i am sending photo of the clay i bought, its still wet i just washed it:


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

In my first post, darker organix mix is - Vermicast, also called worm castings. I just learned it from the store. I am planning to mix it with the soil on the left of thst picture. I that ok?

Tom Barr says earthworm castings are very well suitedand results are awesome, http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...asting-for-nutrient-enriched-sediments-how-to

So now, i know i can use it, my question still remains though what proportions should i use for all the stuff i have now


----------



## mattjm20 (Nov 2, 2013)

One comment - I have read that you shouldn't use more than an inch or 1.5 inches of soil below your cap. It may not be true but the logic is that a more thick layer would trap some of the stuff that normally leaches itself out, creating gaseous pockets and anaerobic conditions. Fearing this, I did a little bit over an inch. Not sure what others think.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

mattjm20 said:


> One comment - I have read that you shouldn't use more than an inch or 1.5 inches of soil below your cap. It may not be true but the logic is that a more thick layer would trap some of the stuff that normally leaches itself out, creating gaseous pockets and anaerobic conditions. Fearing this, I did a little bit over an inch. Not sure what others think.


Thanks for noting that, i read about it too. Spposedly after 1.5 inches MTS/topsoil/earthworm castings/ become unaerobic. 

After reading tombarreport thread above, i decided i will go 1:1 earthworm castings(WC):soil(MTS), this layer is going to be about 1 inch, will also add crushed clay (see my phoo above) in between this mix. On top of it will add half inch layer crushed clay, and top that all with about 1 inch my current stone substrate.

My vermicompost/WC i am going to rinse, boil for about twenty mins, and rinse slightly again, and then add to tabk mixing with washed plain topsoil.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

I am still confused with the ratios 
They saydont use MTS or WC for over 1.5 inch? But then what if people want have deep substrate? I saw aquariums with over 3 inch soil substrate, and plants we growing crazy.

We need experienced users help us here.


----------



## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

common belief is 1 inch of soil is what is needed. i would also like to hear pros/cons from someone who actually have used lot more than that


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

I see some are using nets over clay, so that it doesnt move up the substrtate.. Doesnt look attractive to me.

I am confused with allthe different responses, and some questions still not answered

*1) where do i put peat in all these? Or maybe no peat at all? Pros/cons?
2) would this be ok, from top to bottom:*

1. Gravel - 1inch
2. clay small fractions or powder(i will crush up large piece expanded clay that i got) - 1"
3. MIneralized topsoil+ boiled earthworm castings (vermicompost) + crushed clay-- 1.2 inch
4. Crushed clay - 1/2 inch
Total substrate height- 3 inches.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Anyone, noone?


----------



## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

if i were you and wanted deep substrate, this is what i would do:

1 inch cap material of choice(gravel grain max size ~2mm)
1 inch soil of choice (potting mix wich says on bag contains peat+biocompost+minerals)
1 inch random sand mixed with clay just to make it deep


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

dzega said:


> if i were you and wanted deep substrate, this is what i would do:
> 
> 1 inch cap material of choice(gravel grain max size ~2mm)
> 1 inch soil of choice (potting mix wich says on bag contains peat+biocompost+minerals)
> 1 inch random sand mixed with clay just to make it deep


U mean three different layers right? 
One more thing- in your second layer , with mix of soil + vermicompost, should i add clay particles, powder? Or should i leave clay as a seperate layer ?


----------



## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

i included 3rd layer only for deph of substrate. if you dont want it to be that deep, use 2 layers. just add bit of clay to the soil layer 
i think you are overthinking this way too much.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

dzega said:


> i included 3rd layer only for deph of substrate. if you dont want it to be that deep, use 2 layers. just add bit of clay to the soil layer
> i think you are overthinking this way too much.


I might be, but just becauseits my first time doing it, and i read all these horror stories with algae. Wantto do it right, tats why read and ask alot of q. Thanks for your input.


----------



## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

initial algae outbreaks can be avoided by planting as much as possible and using excel from day one. 
i got that tip on this forum from someone and am doing so since.


----------



## dirtyplants (Dec 5, 2013)

*clay soil peat*

You are going for a low light tank. Lay your soil, sprinkle a small amount of peat on top, remember you can use more peat if you do not intend on using co2. I use sand to weight the peat and soil. Kitty litter, MVP, clay is next but it is light in weight. Using cleated iron in clay will cause algae issues. I personally don't feel you need iron in clay with soil. Powdered clay has issues, it compacts, so this should only be used as a sprinkle. Potters clay may also contain metals. Adding more nutrients to substrate is not an issue unless you add fish. High nitrates will kill fish.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

So my update- i teared tank down, fish and plants andcanister are placed in a seperate container, all seems doing fine.

I took all gravel out from my tank, now its bare bottom. Today planing to start mineralizing pure topsoil inside tank, going to lay it down inside tank and water over it, wait a day, and do again.. Then i will removethis soil and mixwith earthworm castings,, then lay it all down in tank over clay pieces.. On top of soil will put thin layer of peat, clay again, and cap with gravel. Sounds good?


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

I put topsoil directly in tank, and now pouring water over it, mineralizingbinside tank. I already cleaned it in my garden swifted through a narrow sized net, its clean of any wood or small particles other than soil.

Doesl it look good so far? Clixk link below to see the picture 

View attachment 246697


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Today i mixed worm castings with mts soil( what a terrible smell poop has, grrr) and clay, capped with small rock substrate. Filled couple inches of water.

What should i do next? Should i drain water-and the refill again- from the tank couple times? (To clear maybe odor and soil that is left on the substrate, as i was mineralizing soil inside tank, tank itself inside is a bit messy with soil all over it.)

Right now its just soil and inch water, no filter as i have it in my other temprorary tank where i transfered fish and plants.

Or should i just plant plants right away, without filling tank all the way? and let it sit like that a week or so? For cycling, i am planning to have instant cycle since i have external canister that i transfered to a temp tank.

This is what i have now:


----------



## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

Sorry I kinda dropped out on this thread. You could use up to about a 1/2" of peat in the mix somewhere. 

You don't want more than 1.5 - 2 inches of substrate or it will go anaerobic. I have about 3+" of peat in one of my tanks and it rotted all the stems out of the tank a few months back (after about 7 months of being in the tank). Apparently it went through a cycle and the anaerobic levels are gone as the plants are flourishing quite well now.

Plant your plants now. It makes it much easier to plant. That cloudiness will go away in time. Its natural for newly setup dirt tanks.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Cloudness is gone, since i put cap already i dont want to disturb it by introducing peat, maybe next time. Is that ok?

My question is when should i connect external canister there and should i run air? Can i kinda hold plants a week in this tank untill they establish themselves a bit? Or how? Remember i have tank fish ina nother tank running this established canister..


Thankx


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Just planted in the dirt, water isnt cloudy at all, just a tiny bit:


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

And a close up:








Thats my temporary airpump with diy filter, i use it during water changes sometimes or just to clear up water.


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

DAY 3, dec 24 2013. 
Everyday planted some more, today planted last batch. This is how it looks now, some plants already shooting new leaves, wohoo!!. Substrate: Dirt mixed with boiled worm castings.

Click on picture to see bigger version:


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Its been some time since my last post. Thought i share updates. Plants grow very nicely, started shhoting new leaves immediatellyblooks like they totally love the dirt. Never had amonia spike, doing 50% daily sometimes skip a day or two. 
Planting plant sisnt messy as people say, if you use twizzers properly.

I did also upgrade lights , added two T5s bulb ficture, they are so much brigther that my other T8s

The only problem is brown algae i have, and some slicky black algae on moss.. Today i started dosing with excel, two capfuls per day. Also going to use tetracyclin for the cyanobacteria ugly algae i got. 













Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## erimar (Oct 19, 2013)

Nice start! I am planning an 80 gallon tank and I going to mineralize the soil. Please add more pictures of your progress and were you successful removing algae with excel?
Regards,
Erick


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Diatom algae is going away, i already put 4 corys in my tank, they seem very happy and active. All lvls normal, no amonia, no nitrite. I connected my external eheim filter back to tank, so tank was instantly cycled. I also used bactozym bacteria tabs just in case.

I treated tank 3 days with erithromecin for cyanobacteria, i also manually removed it from my moss, add excel norrmal dose a few times a week. After three days i did 70% wc. No traces of cyanobacteria anymore but tiny pieces of erythromecin made a mess out of my tank, there is some left here and there, i think i will get it removed with water changes.

Next time i do soil, i will make at least half tank eater changes daily, this time first week i didnt make that much, and got cyanobacteria break. 

Overall plants are going like weeds! Amazing! I planted carpet plants, and a lot of others, will post you pictures. Everyone looks happy. Put couple shrimps in tank, snails are already everywhere, i guess i got them from plants(although each plant i manually inspect and remove snails, and put in PP solution for twenty mins).

So i am happy  will post pics later. Oh and btw, i removed T8s, have now only two t5 tubes, once plant mass increases might add those t8s back.


----------



## erimar (Oct 19, 2013)

Thank you for updating the tank progress. Please upload current pictures. I will begin a journal/thread once I begin my tank in about a month. I will keep checking your thread. 
Regards, 
Erick


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Today bougght for five inch discus, and put in tank along with four cories that were there, here is the thread with pictures - http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=111638

Thanks tomall plantedtank members for helping me with MTS


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## harilp (Feb 23, 2013)

!!OMG!! Fell in love with ur tank 


Sent from my Blackberry Playbook using Tapatalk2


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

harilp said:


> !!OMG!! Fell in love with ur tank
> 
> 
> Thank you
> ...






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## erimar (Oct 19, 2013)

Congratulations! Your tank looks awesome and your discus are beautiful. Keep updating the thread. I didn't know you lived near Russia, a good friend of mine was from Siberia. Lol


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

I am dosing it weekly with macro micro liquid nutrients, dosing Excel in two or three days - afraid to dose much because i have discus. Other than that lights are eight hours a day i upgraded to T5 x2 tubes, and water changes about 50% every other day. Hope to keep my WC schedule tank gets really messy from discus food, its good i have four cories to clean up, i might add more corys later.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Discus look healthy, plants are striving. Except for red plants, thatw ere ad when i brought them from high tech tank owner, one red species dies, others are more green than red but that was expected, so no problem there.

Anyways, plant grows is superb, here are photos from different dates:


January 6:









Today, january 24:










And discus of course











Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Mmdiscus (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi everyone, thought i would post a few updates.
Diatom algae was badly over driftwood and some plants, now it seems going away. I am dosing excel every other day. I am already trimming them, esp. ludwigias in the middle of the tank, they grow like weeds.

But now i see nematodes in tank, half inch hairy thin white swimming like snakes, not planaria for sure. Any ideas on how to get rid of them?

Other than that, one discus picked up BH, other eats only dry food, the other two still do not eat. I hope they will turn out OK.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Fishnshrimp2 (Sep 13, 2013)

Very cool planted tank! For the worms, sometimes a smaller fish will eat them. I'm not sure what fish are available to you, but I use Heterandria formosa in a few of my aquariums to keep all the tiny worms out.


----------

