# Shrimp safe ich medication



## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

I have a 55G planted tank with shrimp and fish (german rams being the most delicate fish I have) and today I noticed that I might have a minor ich outbreak on my hands. I'm looking for suggestions on ich medications that won't harm the shrimp, german rams, plants, and all the other fish.

Thanks,
Harry


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Upping the heat?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

up the heat to 86F, a little salt and a UV sterilizer.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

x3 

1/2-1 tsp per gallon of non-iodized (aquarium) salt. This is a much smaller dose than the normal 1 tbsp/gal, modified for sensitive fish.


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## neilfishguy (Dec 16, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> x3
> 
> 1/2-1 tsp per gallon of non-iodized (aquarium) salt. This is a much smaller dose than the normal 1 tbsp/gal, modified for sensitive fish.


1 tbs will be fine put in over about 2 days. I dosed 3 tbs/gal with german rams and shrimp with no problems.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Ich needs to be treated for a month with salt- not 2 days. Otherwise you will not catch it in its various life stages. Salt is hard on plants- thus the lowered dose and extended length of time.

Here's an excellent article on ich http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

A life cycle of ich at 85F is only 3 days but is a week or more at low temperatures... But to be safe, 2 weeks is needed to kill all traces of ich. A UV sterilizer is extremely helpful to kill the free swimming phase... It'll cut down on the treatment time.

I'm going through it right now actually...
I had some ottos in quarantine and the ich didn't show up, visibly, till a week later.

Lesson: Aways Quarantine for at least 2 weeks.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

^^^ agreed. And my logic is, if you 1/2 the dose, then you should double the treatment time.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> ^^^ agreed. And my logic is, if you 1/2 the dose, then you should double the treatment time.


yes and no. Many animals can handle a brief exposure to certain things, prolonged exposure can be fatal.

But I do agree with your statements in this thread for the most part.


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

I'm in the process of slowly increasing the temp to about 85F. I'm gonna start adding salt tonight. Btw, here is my fish list. I just wanna make sure I'm not forgetting to mention something or someone.

3 Siamese Algae Eaters
4 Panda Cory Cats
6 Otto Cats
3 Male Endlers
2 Female Platys
9 Cardinal Tetras
2 Apisto cichlids
4 German Rams

5 Platy fry
12 Endler fry

8 Ammano shrimp
8 Cherry shrimp
Bunch of malaysian trumpet snails
Bunch of pond snails 

Should everyone on the list be able to tolerate the heat and salt?

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. Thank you for all the suggestions so far, much appreciated.


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## ccattie (Feb 6, 2008)

A hospital tank is also helpful for treating the currently infected fish as well.
-c


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

Unfortunately a good 50% of my fish have about 1 or 2 spots each on them, so I'd have to move most of my fish, plus chances are the rest might be infected also just not have the white spot visible yet. I'm pretty much stuck treating the main tank ... the only thing I could do maybe is capture the shrimp and move them ... but it's not an easy thing to do in a fully planted 55G show tank .

Thanks,
Harry


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Make sure to get lots of air into your tank because hot watter doesn't hold as much O2 as cooler and cold water. So an air stone or three is a good idea.

-Andrew


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

They're not going to be able to handle 85 degrees for very long, and IMO I think it's pretty likely you'll lose most of your plants at that temp, especially since you're also adding salt... 82 degrees would probably be a safer compromise, especially if the treatment is going to last longer.

With that much of your tank affected- were you keeping a good handle on your ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte levels before this, and keeping up with those PWC? I'm suspecting a water quality issue may be underlying your ich issues- you do have a very heavily stocked tank.


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## neilfishguy (Dec 16, 2007)

When my fish got ick, i have them at 87 with 3 tbs of salt for 2.5 weeks and no losses...85 is nothing as far as your fish go. You will lose many plants though.

And I meant gradually add the salt not just keep it in for two days...


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I noticed the fishes go up for air at 87F.. 85F is fine. There are no plant loss.

And with ich, you have to treat everybody in the same tank. The ich is in the main tank. No point in using a hospital tank...


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

I've got the tank up to 84F degrees at the moment, will increase to maybe 85F or 86F if need be, I've also added 30 teaspoons of salt already (it's a 55G tank).

As for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate they are and were all at 0. It's a heavily planted tank, so all those things get used up by the plants very quickly. I'm pretty sure the ich got introduced by a baby German Ram that I didn't quarantine (the ram has since died, most likely due to the ich and the fact that he was so tiny ... although I only noticed one white spot on him just before he died).

Thanks,
Harry


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

Mistergreen, how much salt have you added? Just curious, since we're both dealing with the same problem at the same time.

How long have you been treating the tank for already with the higher temp and salt?

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. Where did you read or hear about ich having a life cycle of 3 days at 85F? I want to do a bit more reading on it if possible.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Harry- scroll back- I linked an excellent ich article earlier in the post.


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## Harry Muscle (Mar 13, 2007)

Thanks for the link. I read it thru, very interesting info.

I'm always curious to know what others are doing too though (hence my question to mistergreen). 

Thanks for all the help from everyone,
Harry


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

The amount of salt it'll take to kill ich is going to pickle your cories and otos. You really shouldn't be adding salt to a tank with catfish. Beyond any arguments of whether scales have anything to do with it, or exactly how much scale structure any given species might or might not have, maybe someone would like to explain the osmoregulatory balance you're going to being throwing out of wack in _all_ of your fish. Some of your plants are probably going to crumble as well. You should do water changes immediately to get the salt out of the tank while your fish are burning up, or at least get the catfish out asap.

I think it's pretty sad sometimes how people here automatically put the plants before the lives of fish. With all the stupid nazis here (on the forum, in other threads) ranting about dumb _ _ _ _, you think there would be a few here that have some value for life. The first question that should have been asked is "what are the other occupants?". 

Do yourself a big favor, buy a cheap kritter keeper or 10gl tank, cheap air pump and airstone, and Ridich Plus. Put the infected fish in there for treatment, along with part of the filter media to hold a cycle. Follow the directions on the bottle. It usually doesn't take longer than a week. Quarantine them in there for at least a week after treatment to make sure no spots pop up. You may or may not need to continue removing fish from the main tank as they show infection, but often it's only a few species that succumb to it. IME, if half of a school of tetras in the tank show ich, I pull all of the tetras and treat every one of them at the same time. Ridich Plus is safe for sensitive fish like tetras and otos. Don't treat your display tank and all it's uninfected inhabitants for something that only part of the population has, always use a hospital tank or you're just creating a bigger mess and more issues for yourself. The important thing is to remove a sick fish to quarantine as soon as you notice a real problem. 5gl buckets with some used filter media, some plant clippings and an airstone is good enough for QT (not good as an ich hospital since you need to observe when the ich falls off).

You can say how hard it will be to move 50% of the populous all you want, but mark my words, you are inviting more serious problems and I know those cories and plants weren't cheap. A day with a net is a small price to pay for saving your tank and catfish from destruction. The suggestion about having to treat everyone in the same tank is hogwash, I do it this way every time and I'm not lucky by any means. There are plenty of reasons why safe ich meds have been developed, and a hospital routine has been suggested for years and years, and you're about to learn those reasons if you use your main tank as a hospital.

My 2¢... and change.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

jaidexl said:


> I think it's pretty sad sometimes how people here automatically put the plants before the lives of fish. With all the stupid nazis here ranting about dumb _ _ _ _, you think there would be a few here that have some value for life. The first question that should have been asked is "what are the other occupants?".


What's with the attitude? We're just trying to help harry here.



Harry Muscle said:


> Mistergreen, how much salt have you added? Just curious, since we're both dealing with the same problem at the same time.
> 
> How long have you been treating the tank for already with the higher temp and salt?
> 
> ...


I sure don't and we all don't recommend putting in enough salt to pickle any fish. Here's an article on ich from a credible University.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA006


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

And I'm supposed to be convinced of what when UFL fails to explain salt treatment in any detail whatsoever or it's effects on osmoregulation or certain FW species? Maybe I'm convinced that I won't be consulting with any UFL grads about how to treat fish. I could spend the day finding 'reputable' citing but it's all common knowledge, hopefully for at least one other person here other than myself. Please don't try and gang up me for being the one person to point out the huge flaws in this thread.

No attitude intended, I'm just "quite erked", and if it came out that way then I was successful. Bad practice pisses me off because I care about fish, so shoot me, it doesn't affect the quality of my plants by any means. This place is flooded with bad husbandry info and that's simply a fact, take it or leave it. I shouldn't have to hunt down the hundreds of threads where fish were entirely overlooked during time of nitrogenous meltdown or some other wacked out parameter issue. But if I must to make my point well understood, then someone just make the call, I'm sure I'll only have to scroll a few pages into the fish forum.

Why spend a month fighting ich with salt in an oto/cory (or any FW fish for that matter) tank when there are safer and faster ways to do it? One who chooses otherwise is either too lazy to set up a hospital tank, to cheap to buy Ridich+, or just likes to gamble with the lives of their fish, in which case it's redundant to even try and save their lives in the first place unless you simply find little white dots unpleasing to look at.

There are plenty of people that are going to report success with the salt treatment. I've heard it, I've read it, and I've seen it done plenty of times, but it just doesn't make sense especially in this scenario. Those accounts hold nothing against all of the bad that others including myself have experienced. Where is the logic?? At the very least, the OP should remove the catfish and treat them separately or keep them away from treatment if not affected.

Sorry if I came off stabbing in the wind, but there are a lot of things these last few weeks (here and elsewhere) that have me just about done with the online world. We all get a break down day, right??


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

And formalin and malachite green are less stressful to the fish?

And by removing the affected fish and treating it in another tank, how are the ich in the main tank treated?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

You're comparing two chemicals to a commercially prepared product that contains them. There's no argument there because it is totally irrelevant. I could take a look under your sink and point out a possible Chernobyl, but the fact is it's just not so, it's also a fact that Ridich+ is safe for scaleless and scaled freshwater fish, safer than salt, IMHO. 

For what it's worth, I've also successfully ridden ich from otos using methylene blue, there are plenty of places that are going to say that's an iffy, or maybe not even possible, but I've done it twice. Those are probably the same places that sport the salt treatment as the number one go to.

And all I can tell you about your last question is that it's entirely possible as I've done it plenty of times, every time in fact. Never have I had to treat the tank or every fish in it after an ich outbreak. I can't tell you why that doesn't happen to you, maybe because you've never tried. Perhaps the fact that I remove infected fish immediately after realizing one spot has become 4 within a few days makes a big difference. That's just one of those farces that I don't have to pay attention to because I've disproven it already. Best I can say is that the parasite dies if it doesn't find a host in time, that doesn't mean they have a fish homing missile strapped to their back.

One clarification on my first post, the term "stupid nazis" was referring to totally different threads where people have complained about useless junk, about what's fair and what isn't, implying we should have rules set for things that don't even matter, and I let that roll off me into this thread. I'm sure that came off as referring to this thread and I'll probably get a flame for it as soon as someone reads it that way, but it's not the case.... there, edited.


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