# Water paramaters and Blue Rams



## emoore3 (Oct 18, 2003)

I have two pairs of german blue rams. The tank they are in has a pH of 7.4, gh = 13, kh = 10, and temp = 79 and they are doing very well. Both pairs have spawned although all the eggs get fungest and none hatch because of the hard water. You can see if you can get captive bred rams from around your area. They might be better in hard water than wild rams.


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## Plecoman (Nov 22, 2003)

Let's start off with the first problem. If all is as you say (pH 6.5 and kH 14), then you have 133 ppm of co2 in the tank. At that level, it would most likely be toxic to any fish that was put in the tank. You see, at very high levels, it just puts the fish to sleep so that it never wakes up.

I think one of values is wrong. I'd bet its the kH. Try to get a accurate test for it. If you are sure that all is correct, then fish are a no-no for the tank. 

If you are using peat, it throws off the whole relationship of pH and kH, but i don't think you are, so forget about that.

Back to rams. They are a very delicate fish. They should be kept in acidic and soft conditions no matter what. It is thought that non-ideal conditions cause them to expire prematurely. If you want rams, you have to be dedicated to obtaining soft, acidic water. Most would use peat or r/o water. My ram tank specs are pH 6.0, kH 1, gH 2. I use peat.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Agree with emoore, disagree with Plecoman. Farm-bred fish will do fine with your hardness readings (if they're correct), and emoore's is just one example of this. Clean and stable water conditions are much more important, though you wouldn't want the hardness to get more than a few degrees above what it is now.


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

KH higher than GH... The KH test is probably off.

Verminaard, are you adding any buffers/pH additives?


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

hypsophrys said:


> KH higher than GH... The KH test is probably off.


Not necessarily; there may be an abundance of cations other than calcium and magnesium in the water. My KH always reads higher than my GH after increasing both with additives.


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## Verminaard (Dec 4, 2003)

I have a co2 test kit. Co2 is not the issue-I just took peat out of my filter and so the co2/ph/kh scale does not apply. The co2 is actually at 25ppm. I have healthy fish in the tank. The only real question was on the water hardness...thanks for the posts


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

2la said:


> hypsophrys said:
> 
> 
> > KH higher than GH... The KH test is probably off.
> ...


But, GH is supposed to be total hardness *including* KH. Even if there were nothing but carbonate in the water: GH=KH.

At least, that's my understanding.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

hypsophrys said:


> But, GH is supposed to be total hardness *including* KH. Even if there were nothing but carbonate in the water: GH=KH.
> 
> At least, that's my understanding.


Your understanding is correct, but commercial test kits use calcium and magnesium concentrations as a proxy for GH, even though there are other cations in the water. For example, I buffer my KH up with sodium bicarbonate and use R/O Right by Kent to bring up my GH. The R/O Right contains a mixture of cations (calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, etc.), and the instructions _specifically_ state that hobby-level GH test kits won't accurately read _true_ dGH resulting from the use of their products. Like most hobbyists, Verminaard is merely reporting what s/he's measuring. The test kits aren't faulty in what they're measuring--it's just that they're not measuring all of what constitutes general hardness. As long as you understand this caveat, you don't need to do fancy algorithms just to report a "true" dGH reading. If you want to be as accurate as possible, use a TDS meter instead.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I agree with emoore and 2la, just wanted to add that Rams seem to like higher temperatures. I kept one at 74F and she got fin rot, I increased the temp to 78 and then back to 76, recovered quickly and now she's doing great.
So along with clean water, temperature could play a role as well.


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