# Be careful transporting CO2 tank



## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi all,

I haven't been around much lately, over 2000 posts since my last visit. I had an experience a few days ago that I feel obligated to share. Some might consider it a good example of Darwinian principles at work, but nevertheless...

The gauge on my CO2 tank was reading a bit on the low side so I figured since I had to run a few errands anyway I might as well get the tank filled. When I left the home brew store I placed the tank on the passenger seat and secured it with the seat belt. Life has been anything but normal lately, with renovations coming to a close and the sudden loss of one of my hockey buddies not long ago. I was not paying enough attention to the task at hand. Anyway to make a long story short on the way home I had to brake suddenly. The "secured" cylinder shifted, hit the passenger door hard, and the valve opened. I can still hear the sounds in my head. Immediately the car filled up with gas; visibility was zero. Panic, accompanied by a few deep breaths, set in. Fortunately I managed to roll the window down and manouver across 3 lanes of traffic to pull off the road. I was very lucky.

This is by no means intended to deter noobs or the like from trying pressurized CO2. The cylinders, however, contain pressurized gas, obviously, and need to be treated with respect. Let this be your reminder.


----------



## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

There was a very good article in one of the recent quarterly AGA magazines that discussed similar situations. Many of the problems were related to heat, which is a concern down here in FL. I'd never really considered it before reading that.

Glad to hear you came out okay, Jart!!


----------



## GTApuffgal (Feb 7, 2005)

Yikes Jart! So glad you're okay!

And very very sorry about your friend...


----------



## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

I always put it in the trunk, never passenger seat. Also wedge a thick phone book by the cylinder to keep it from rolling.


----------



## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Glad you are okay! roud: 
Depending on what size tank you have, you can get a "cage" that protects the valve. It prevents the valve from being damaged when certain events like this happen.


----------



## GraFFix (Feb 21, 2005)

The same thing almost happened to me about 2 weeks ago when i picked up my first 5lb co2 tank. 
Picked up the tank and not even thinking i set it on the floor in the back seat..well the first red light i came to, the tank rolled and hit the back of the front seat in turn opening the valve...It wasnt fully open but was pretty loud as the gas was coming out. kinda scared me for a second. Next time i have to get it filled ill definatly make sure to secure it in the car for the ride home.
glad your ok though.


----------



## Rebgen (Mar 22, 2005)

Kudos to you for sharing an experience everyone can learn from. In that spirit I'll share another hazard (more dangerous) related to handling pressurized cylinders.

In the event of a regulator/valve being broken off completely from a pressurized cylinder, you've got a very big problem. I used to practice as a Physician's Assistant in an orthopaedic practice. One day while we were in the O.R. during a case we heard a temendous noise outside the operating room followed by what sounded like a small explosion. What happened is a nurse dropped an large cylinder and the valve assembly hit something during the fall and was completely knocked off. The cylinder instantly became a missle and began shooting all over the hallway and landed against the wall at the end of a long hallway. The wall was breached by the impact. This was a cement block wall. If anyone had been the path of the cylinder they could have easily been killed.

I'll get off my soap box now but I wanted to share another story to emphasize how potentially dangerous these things can be if the proper safeguards aren't used.


----------



## Ironfin (Aug 11, 2004)

The aluminum tank I bought came with a black plastic collar that goes around the neck of the bottle. It is being used as a handle to lift the bottle as well as protector of the valve. It is designed for transportation purposes to avoid the accident that you have experienced. See the pic here.

http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/tanks/co2.shtml

If you are shopping for a new tank make sure it comes with this collar.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Here's what I do (not sure how safe it is): I put the tank on the floor behind the passenger seat, then slide the seat back to keep it from rolling and doing bad things in case of an emergency brake situation.
Bought the tank new and it came with the same collar that Ironfin described. roud:


----------



## Rickster (Mar 18, 2003)

Wasserpest said:


> Here's what I do (not sure how safe it is): I put the tank on the floor behind the passenger seat, then slide the seat back to keep it from rolling and doing bad things in case of an emergency brake situation.
> roud:


What he said


----------



## Talonstorm (Nov 6, 2004)

jart said:


> The gauge on my CO2 tank was reading a bit on the low side so I figured since I had to run a few errands anyway I might as well get the tank filled. When I left the home brew store I placed the tank on the passenger seat and secured it with the seat belt. Life has been anything but normal lately, with renovations coming to a close and the sudden loss of one of my hockey buddies not long ago. I was not paying enough attention to the task at hand. Anyway to make a long story short on the way home I had to brake suddenly. The "secured" cylinder shifted, hit the passenger door hard, and the valve opened. I can still hear the sounds in my head. Immediately the car filled up with gas; visibility was zero. Panic, accompanied by a few deep breaths, set in. Fortunately I managed to roll the window down and manouver across 3 lanes of traffic to pull off the road. I was very lucky.
> 
> This is by no means intended to deter noobs or the like from trying pressurized CO2. The cylinders, however, contain pressurized gas, obviously, and need to be treated with respect. Let this be your reminder.


WOW, how scary! I am planning on getting my tanks filled and such at the welding shop that is about 1 mile from my house, but I am glad you posted this. I would have probably strapped it in on the back seat, but now I will be sure to place it in the trunk with some heavy items around it to keep it from rolling. Hopefully in the next couple months I can save some $ to try pressurized CO2.

Thanks!
Tina


----------



## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Transport it very similar to what WP has been doing.


----------



## Biznatch (Mar 26, 2005)

Probably be a good idea to have all windows open when transporting it just in case. No matter how careful you are, accidents happen. If you get rearended or something, better to leak it into the atmosphere than into a sealed car if you can't move or something. Even in your trunk it will most likely leak through the back seat before it goes through the rubber seals.

Very scary story though, when I get my tank I'm going to be really careful now. It wouldn't have occured to me that this type of thing can happen so easily.


----------



## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

I appreciate all your kind words of concern, folks. And advice as well. But I have one question. Aren't CO2 tanks supposed to be stored in the upright position at all times? I can't recall the exact reason, but I seem to recall some danger in storing a tank on it's side for even short periods of time, perhaps something about liquid CO2 collecting near the outlet? Someone please correct me if this is inaccurate.


----------



## bigfishy (Dec 31, 2004)

While we're on the subject of CO2 safety, I'd just like to ask a question to those who live in warmer climates. Do you store your tank in a kegger fridge or something similar?

The critical point of CO2 is 31 degrees Celcius (88 F). At which the pressure in the tank becomes unstable enough to seriously rise and could result in the burst disc rupturing. Two years ago there was a blackout where I live for 3 days during the heat of the summer. With no air-conditioning (or electricity) I'd like to know any opinions of what should be done in that situation. I didn't have compressed CO2 then.

I've heard of CO2 discs blowing when people transport them in their cars with heaters on or on a hot sunny day. In the event of a heatwave or blackout would it be prudent just to bleed the tank empty till better conditions resume?

I wonder what the welding companies do during the summer. Do they air-condition their warehouses?

Thanks for any input.


----------



## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Wow jart, what an experience. Thanks for sharing. I've always wondered what might happen in such a case. You've given me valuable information re: how to react. Seems that it would be best to use a car with power windows.

I'm sorry I can't answer your question re: sideways storage of tanks. I know that liquid CO2 coming out is a very bad thing, so I always keep the tank upright.


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

They have to be stored upright once the regulator is attached and the main valve opened. The main valve is resistant to the liquid CO2, the seals in your regulator are not.


----------



## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

I just got a pressurized CO2 set up this weekend. Knowing I need to transport the tank when it needs to get filled, I installed a simple strap into the bed of my truck!! It will hold the tank into one corner of the bed.

For others that don't have trucks it will be a good thing to make a wood cradle that will hold the tank in the trunck or back seat floor. Very simple to make.

1/2" or 3/4" ply wood. Cut a base out longer and wider than the tank. Then take some 2X6 wood and cut two "U" shaped cradles with a radius the size of your tank. Attach them to the plywood base. Then you need 2 or 4 eyehooks and screw them into the base so you can attach and stretch a small bundgie cord accross the tank and secure it to the "Tank Craddle". 

This nice little project will become a very nice stress reliever if you need to stop or make evasive actions when transporting your tank.

I work at a company that mfg. alternative fuel cells for vehicles, (nitrogen powered is the future!) and this is the method we use to transport tanks in the shop.


----------



## bigfishy (Dec 31, 2004)

Just a bump.

Anybody who lives in warmer climate please answer my question.

Thanks.


----------



## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

I live in Florida, where daytime temps are already in the 80's. I just keep my CO2 tank in my stand. I guess I trust my home A/C, and don't ever expect it to be out for too many days. Even if it does go out, the inside of the house wouldn't be in direct sunlight, so I don't see the inside temps getting into the upper 80s...okay maybe lower 90s. So, I guess I've got no real plan for what I'd do with my CO2 tanks. Maybe I could sink it in my swimming pool during a power outage :wink: ?


----------



## Bonsai_Swamp (Sep 11, 2004)

bigfishy said:


> The critical point of CO2 is 31 degrees Celcius (88 F). At which the pressure in the tank becomes unstable enough to seriously rise and could result in the burst disc rupturing.


Not an issue, unless the person filling your tank leaves the booster pump on too long and overfills it. Assuming he sells you what you paid for and no more, you're not going to blow the burst disk unless it is faulty or the room is too hot to inhabit, in which case you probably have other concerns.

http://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/co2_info.htm



bigfishy said:


> I've heard of CO2 discs blowing when people transport them in their cars with heaters on or on a hot sunny day.


Possible. Again, overfilling, faulty burst disk, or the fact that a sealed automobile in direct sun can be pushing temperatures well over 120 degrees F in a matter of minutes. 



bigfishy said:


> I wonder what the welding companies do during the summer.


The same thing paper mills with CO2 extinguishers (and other hot industrial shop floors) and ships with CO2 fire suppression cylinders in their engine rooms do - nothing. 

If you want to make life complicated and you're worried about over-filling, weigh the tank when you get home. The tare (empty) weight of the cylinder is usually stamped on its shoulder. If tare + weight of CO2 you paid for is less than actual weight, vent in an open area (CO2 can pool in stair wells and other low spots) until the weights agree. 

If you're worried about a faulty burst disk, ask the hydrostatic testers who re-certify the cylinder every five years to put a new burst disk on the tank after it's tested. (They might already do so as standard procedure.)

How often do you hear of problems with CO2 extinguishers? Same beast, same burst disk, slightly different valve.


----------



## bigfishy (Dec 31, 2004)

> How often do you hear of problems with CO2 extinguishers? Same beast, same burst disk, slightly different valve.



Thanks for the replies guys. The subject just worried me a bit.

Regarding fire extinguishers: I'll take another look tommorrow, but I'm pretty sure there's no liquid CO2 in a fire-extinguisher. The ones I've seen are charged at 250psi and hydro tested to 500psi. The "overfill" on the guage is 450psi. Definitely no liquid CO2 at those pressures. That's why they're only good for smaller applications because one squirt and they are basically empty.

Once again. Thanks.


----------



## Bonsai_Swamp (Sep 11, 2004)

bigfishy said:


> Regarding fire extinguishers: I'll take another look tommorrow, but I'm pretty sure there's no liquid CO2 in a fire-extinguisher. The ones I've seen are charged at 250psi and hydro tested to 500psi. The "overfill" on the guage is 450psi.


What you're describing is a dry chem extinguisher. As far as I know, most use nitrogen to propel the dry chemical extinguishing agent, although I did run into an odd-ball design once that used a large disposable CO2 cartridge to pressurize the powder cannister. CO2 capacity of the cartridge was measured in grams, not pounds. Sole purpose of the CO2 was to deliver the dry chem powder to the fire.

A CO2 extinguisher doesn't have a pressure gauge, and has a flared horn instead of a nozzle at the end of the hose. Max pressure rating stamped on the shoulder of a steel tank is usually 1800 p.s.i.


----------

