# Controlling pH with vinegar/baking soda



## Endler's Game (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm asking this more out of curiosity than anything else (I don't even test my pH), but a friend of mine wanted to experiment with controlling pH by adding nothing more than vinegar or baking soda. Has anyone else tried this? Is there any reason why this should not be done? Also, if someone has tried, do you know how much to add per gallon to affect a certain change, say 0.1?

Thanks for indulging my curiosity.


----------



## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Possibly the worst idea ever. pH depends on one thing: H+ ions. Anything you add contains other things which may alter how many H+ ions are currently in the water.

Really, don't worry about controlling pH, it is kind of meaningless. pH fluctuates all the time due to changes in the tank that don't affect the inhabitant's well being. If you take some chemistry classes, you will find that acids are not always classified by the presence of H+ ions. 

Some people do add calcium carbonate to boost their kH.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Endler's Game said:


> I'm asking this more out of curiosity than anything else (I don't even test my pH), but a friend of mine wanted to experiment with controlling pH by adding nothing more than vinegar or baking soda. Has anyone else tried this? Is there any reason why this should not be done? Also, if someone has tried, do you know how much to add per gallon to affect a certain change, say 0.1?
> 
> Thanks for indulging my curiosity.


1) Don't try to change your pH with chemicals. It's probably fine as-is.
2) Yes, it's possible to change the pH using either vinegar or baking soda...why would you want to though?


----------



## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

I agree, don't do it. Trying to change the pH with additives just causes more problems down the line. 

If you want to lower the pH try adding either RO or distilled water to tap, or adding CO2.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Vinegar is acetic acid, so that would be known as an acetate/carbonate buffer. I can't tell you why people don't generally use acetate to adjust the pH, although they do use carbonate. The buffers for sale in fish stores are generally phosphate buffers.

I can think of two reasons why vinegar isn't used in fish tanks, although I'm sure there are others. One is that vinegar smells like... you guessed it, vinegar. The other is that it's an organic acid, meaning that it contains carbon. It'll be eaten by bacteria and maybe plants and algae.


----------



## Endler's Game (Dec 30, 2007)

It's nice to see there's a common consensus of "don't do it." I'll let him know and hopefully even convert him to low tech. Why mess with things when you don't have to?


----------



## ValorG (Dec 27, 2003)

If your Ph is not below 6.0 and higher than 7.9, there is no need to change the ph. Fish can adapt very well, I have bred discus at a ph of 7.8 and a pair i raised from a batch 1 year ago is starting to breed now. Keep in mind that discus like water 6.0-6.5 ph.


----------



## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Some fish even like water below 6, just don't go much further than that. Hell, my tap comes out at 8.2.


----------



## ir0n_ma1den (May 13, 2007)

you have good tap for reefs.. start a reef...


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

No tap for reef, the salt mix supplies the desired pH and alkalinity, zero TDS distilled or RO/DI for topoffs to maintain stability of parameters.

Endler's Game, stability is exactly what can leave the building when you add acids to a tank, the idea is that it eats the carbonates (KH) and subsequently lowers the ph. That works, but stability and pH can go all out of wack when carbonates fluctuate. Plenty of people lower their pH for plenty of good reasons (although I agree that it doesn't need to be altered in most cases), what they're actually doing is lowering carbonates, some use vinegar, some have used hydrochloric acid, some use peat filtration. In my opinion, the best way to achieve a desired, lower pH when your source water is hard, is to acquire distilled water, or hook up your own RO filter to create lower TDS (total dissolved solids) water, then add your own set amounts of carbonates (baking soda) for the desired KH, and minerals (calcium, magnesium) for the desired GH. There is no guess work here as there is when you rely on acids to lower pH, pH shouldn't be the concern for fish and plants anyway, it's the KH or TDS that is important in these scenarios but for some reason the world is bent on telling everyone what their pH should be for this and that. 

I can change my pH by adding CO2 or O2 and nothing happens to the carbonates. It's a common misconception that one could add CO2 to their hard water to create a better environment for soft water fish, when in fact that change has no effect on carbonates, they just have hard water with a bunch of CO2 dissolved into it.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Jaidexl has the right idea.. Just add RO or distilled water.


----------



## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

And please, please, whatever you do, don't encourage me to start a reef. Pretty soon, I'll move from eating ramen to eating shoes.


----------



## ir0n_ma1den (May 13, 2007)

^Lol, I am also sadly getting sucked into reefing. I will probably start up a 10g money pit over the summer. I already frequent Nano-reef.com atleast once a day... not a good sign.



jaidexl said:


> No tap for reef, the salt mix supplies the desired pH and alkalinity, zero TDS distilled or RO/DI for topoffs to maintain stability of parameters.


Ya, that came out wrong. I should of said his ph but that wouldn't matter anyways because you have to use RO/DI water.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

fishscale said:


> And please, please, whatever you do, don't encourage me to start a reef. Pretty soon, I'll move from eating ramen to eating shoes.



...so, I got some cheap/free frags for you if you start one up.


----------



## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I had a 100 gal reef and it was just plain fun.


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I get bored with my little 8gl reef. Partly because it never changes since I leave it alone to let stuff grow, and partly because I can't afford anything to put in it anymore. I wasn't thrilled that it cost $250 in it's first week either, who knows how much now. All for that little tank with a slow motion mushroom/anthelia war going on in it. The microfauna is cool though.

Mantis tanks are the beez kneez  :thumbsup:


----------



## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

I love my reefs!:icon_smil 
12 gal










my favorite pic









90 gal w/ 29 refugium & 29 gal sump


----------

