# Aura Blue & OEBT?



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

It's a caridina, most likely will interbreed with cantonensis.


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## Robse (Apr 26, 2011)

I just looked it up, the shrimp lab lists aura blue as being Neocaridina. I believe OEBT are caridina. Please someone confirm this. If this is true, the two can both be put in the same tank.


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

Same as CRS/CBS. Can be kept with tigers. Looks similar to a blue pearl.


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

Robse said:


> I just looked it up, the shrimp lab lists aura blue as being Neocaridina. I believe OEBT are caridina. Please someone confirm this. If this is true, the two can both be put in the same tank.


That's where the confusion is, the shrimp lab lists them as Neo's but the canadian shrimp lab say cardina.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Robse said:


> I just looked it up, the shrimp lab lists aura blue as being Neocaridina. I believe OEBT are caridina. Please someone confirm this. If this is true, the two can both be put in the same tank.


Just last night Nikki replied (in her own sub-forum here) that the classification on the US shrimplab page is incorrect.

The Canadian one has them listed as Cardina which should be the current classification.

Mordalphus: any chance that you know of anyone who actually has these so you can shed some light on this controversial breed? When you and shrimpnmoss started posting about your experiences with the Tangerine Tigers is helped to sort of settle down the speculation over that particular breed.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Yes, I know someone who keeps them, (seeing as how I also sell them).

They have the potential to interbreed with CRS/CBS, Tigers, etc.

There have been _NO_ confirmed cases of this happening, but it _IS_ possible.


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

Not trying to hijack this topic, but while we're on the discussion of what aura blues are, are they the same thing as blue tupfels?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Similar, but blue tuepfels don't breed true, they give a range of reddish, brownish and blueish offspring if I'm not mistaken.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

I'm not entirely sure that the Aura Blues breed true either. Quite a few wholesalers stopped carrying them because they weren't producing any blue offspring and were believe to be dyed.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

You are wrong.

People said the same thing about tangerine tigers, but several people here now have small hordes of them


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

I'm not talking about tangerines. Two different shrimp could have entirely different circumstances. Also, orange isn't nearly as popular as blue color morphs. At any rate, wholesalers have stopped carrying Aura Blues for that reason. However, the first few batches might have been legitimate and breeders/exporters might have started dyeing shrimp to keep up with demand. If anyone on the forum is breeding Aura Blues I'd certainly like to see it to verify that there is indeed a strain that breeds true.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

There are only 2 confirmed suppliers of true Aura Blue shrimp that I know of. As for color, I couldn't tell you as there are only 1-3 people in the US that have confirmed true auras from one of the 2 confirmed suppliers. I can only confirm that there is a possibility of interbreeding. I only have 1 Aura blue myself.

There are quite a few people "selling" aura blues that are not from a reputable dealer of them, but this happens with almost all shrimp that are "rare" and people will argue over true colors and what not. Ask Chad, he had them and he can tell you if they remain blue or not.


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

Currently there is only one person in America with aura blues. You will only find your information from him or from nikki or liam. This species is new to the states so you are most likely thinking of something else.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

This is a Caridina species same line as tangerine tigers but achieving blue is one of the harder colors of all shrimps to stabilize and breed true. However Aura blue does in fact breed true. 



MrFusion said:


> I'm not entirely sure that the Aura Blues breed true either. Quite a few wholesalers stopped carrying them because they weren't producing any blue offspring and were believe to be dyed.


:hihi: name 1 buyer that has ever bought aura blues and bred them that didn't breed true.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

also there is confirmation of auras crossing with crystals. Owner of Crimson Taiwan has crossed it. I'll ask him for pictures to post of the hybrids during the weekend.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> :hihi: name 1 buyer that has ever bought aura blues and bred them that didn't breed true.


 The problem is that I can't name anyone who has had them breed true. 

Firstly, we have to point out that "Aura Blues" are really just "Fire Blues" by a different name. I don't personally know any hobbyists who have bought or bred either of them, but I do know several reputable wholesalers. What I'd like to find is someone in the hobby (not a retailer) that has bred them and can provide images of their colony along with berried females and blue juveniles mixed in with their colony. I know, it's a steep request, but I'm looking for actual documentation from a reputable hobbyist. Should be pretty interesting. If there are indeed two stains (One that breeds true and one that is dyed) then we need to get that figured out. If they do indeed breed true, then I'd be more interested in acquiring some as I imagine others would.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> This is a Caridina species same line as tangerine tigers but achieving blue is one of the harder colors of all shrimps to stabilize and breed true. However Aura blue does in fact breed true.
> 
> 
> 
> :hihi: name 1 buyer that has ever bought aura blues and bred them that didn't breed true.


At the price that Aura Blues are commanding I would think that the onus would be on the seller to provide even one buyer that has bought Aura Blues and had them breed true.

For all of the furor over these shrimp when you announced the naming and what I am sure is going to arise now that Nikki and Liam are marketing them a bit more the mention of a 'Chad' a few posts above is the first time in all of my searching on the subject (which is obviously limited to English language sources) that I have seen mention of any specific North American buyer who has enough experience with them to vouch for them.

Both Nikki and Liam have strong reputations in the community for good reasons but when there is an almost total void of information on this breed of shrimp it is asking a LOT of customers to simply take it on faith that a new to the hobby breed is exactly as advertised.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> The problem is that I can't name anyone who has had them breed true.
> 
> Firstly, we have to point out that "Aura Blues" are really just "Fire Blues" by a different name. I don't personally know any hobbyists who have bought or bred either of them, but I do know several reputable wholesalers. What I'd like to find is someone in the hobby (not a retailer) that has bred them and can provide images of their colony along with berried females and blue juveniles mixed in with their colony. I know, it's a steep request, but I'm looking for actual documentation from a reputable hobbyist. Should be pretty interesting. If there are indeed two stains (One that breeds true and one that is dyed) then we need to get that figured out. If they do indeed breed true, then I'd be more interested in acquiring some as I imagine others would.


MrFusion,
posting pictures that is simple. But you've made a very serious claim that defames the creator of aura blue (Fu Shrimp). Name one of the "several reputable wholesalers" thats making this claim and I will pass this on to Fu and you will get what you want once we clear this claim and will make it public. A picture with a happy loving family of all blue colored Aura blues will be rewarded to your eyes. I don't think that's asking too much. If the question at first was to just simply request a photo and instead of defaming it all at 1 shot.



> I'm not entirely sure that the Aura Blues breed true either. Quite a few wholesalers stopped carrying them because they *weren't producing any blue offspring* and were believe to be dyed.


I'm not trying to link this to you. I just want to know who made that accusation. Reason being is if that were true. Why is Fu still standing as a leading wholsaler of shrimp :hihi:


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

msnikkistar said:


> There are only 2 confirmed suppliers of true Aura Blue shrimp that I know of. .


 Who are those suppliers?


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

As I'm sure you've guessed I'm not going to give up my sources who spoke to me in confidence. Besides, the burden of proof really isn't on my shoulders. Lets not make this into a personal issue and keep it about the shrimp and the hobby. Personal issues only muck up the interest in the actual science. People want fact, not drama as I'm sure you would agree.

EDIT: Again, we're looking for proof from actual customers. Not retailers or wholesalers who have something to gain or lose.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> MrFusion,
> posting pictures that is simple. But you've made a very serious claim that defames the creator of aura blue (Fu Shrimp). Name one of the "several reputable wholesalers" thats making this claim and I will pass this on to Fu and you will get what you want once we clear this claim and will make it public. A picture with a happy loving family of all blue colored Aura blues will be rewarded to your eyes. I don't think that's asking too much. If the question at first was to just simply request a photo and instead of defaming it all at 1 shot.
> 
> 
> ...



As I'm sure you've guessed I'm not going to give up my sources who spoke to me in confidence. Besides, the burden of proof really isn't on my shoulders. Lets not make this into a personal issue and keep it about the shrimp and the hobby. Personal issues only muck up the interest in the actual science. People want fact, not drama as I'm sure you would agree.

EDIT: Again, we're looking for proof from actual customers. Not retailers or wholesalers who have something to gain or lose.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Alyssa said:


> Who are those suppliers?


Fu Shrimp is one, and the other I am not sure wants to be named. That, I have to ask permission for.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> As I'm sure you've guessed I'm not going to give up my sources who spoke to me in confidence. Besides, the burden of proof really isn't on my shoulders. Lets not make this into a personal issue and keep it about the shrimp and the hobby. Personal issues only muck up the interest in the actual science. People want fact, not drama as I'm sure you would agree.


I am sure you weren't going to give it right from the start because for 1 I know what your "supplier" / "wholsaler" is saying is not true. 

Can you pm me your name that you use with your wholsalers. I'll ask the "source" to ask their buyers if they know your name then i'll figure it out. You would be indirectly helping the greater cause of stopping a rumor =) and you may say if I just post a picture here that it would solve everything. no not exactly, my point is that whoever is spreading this is probably not just spreading to north america. And they will just see what the consequences of their actions are. But if you can't even give me your name. Then I highly doubt your story. I'm not trying to fuel an argument but its as simple as giving me a name of a company so that the rumor can stop all at once instead of each time it coming up have to prove in some way. Hope you get my drift. Either way, i'll be waiting for some names.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> I'm not entirely sure that the Aura Blues breed true either. Quite a few wholesalers stopped carrying them because they weren't producing any blue offspring and were believe to be dyed.





MrFusion said:


> The problem is that I can't name anyone who has had them breed true.





MrFusion said:


> As I'm sure you've guessed I'm not going to give up my sources who spoke to me in confidence. Besides, the burden of proof really isn't on my shoulders..


I am moving away from the subject of them breeding true or not, because there is only 1-2 people in the US with Auras on hand and because they are a relatively "new" shrimp, there isn't a person who can verify or deny what you are asking. 

What I do have to say is, you shouldn't make accusations about things being dyed, or falsified (even if you do not want to name your supplier) without having first hand knowledge to confirm or deny if they are actual Auras. Since you are making these statements and using it as an example, that leaves you open to questioning if your statements are true or not as well. You left yourself open to providing "proof" that they do not breed true, since that is your proceeding argument. 

There has always been dealers/suppliers that are nefarious. It has happened before, and it may happen still. Just like there are individuals that acquire livestock illegally from overseas. That will never end. But there are also honest suppliers and honest people who do things by the book. So the argument can be that some of the suppliers aren't legitimately selling true Auras, while some are.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> I am sure you weren't going to give it right from the start because for 1 I know what your "supplier" / "wholsaler" is saying is not true.
> 
> Can you pm me your name that you use with your wholsalers. I'll ask the "source" to ask their buyers if they know your name then i'll figure it out. You would be indirectly helping the greater cause of stopping a rumor =) and you may say if I just post a picture here that it would solve everything. no not exactly, my point is that whoever is spreading this is probably not just spreading to north america. And they will just see what the consequences of their actions are. But if you can't even give me your name. Then I highly doubt your story. I'm not trying to fuel an argument but its as simple as giving me a name of a company so that the rumor can stop all at once instead of each time it coming up have to prove in some way. Hope you get my drift. Either way, i'll be waiting for some names.


 
Actually, I'm not asking you to post a picture are all. In fact, I don't want you to because an image from a retailer or wholesaler can be discredited by the potential monetary gain or loss. I'm looking for proof that can't be tainted. Undeniable testimony and photographic proof from a reputable hobbyist that has actually bred these shrimp themselves. Several reputable hobbyists with identical testimony would be even better. 

I don't see any reason to doubt my story. Everyone knows I personally import my own shrimp from many different wholesalers. What do I have to gain or lose by stating what I have been told from many different reputable sources who I have personally established relationships with? Obviously they don't want to sell me something that they know I'm not going to be happy with.

Again, this isn't a witch hunt, it's a search for undeniably documented facts for the good of the hobby and the community. It's not a bad thing.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> Actually, I'm not asking you to post a picture are all. In fact, I don't want you to because an image from a retailer or wholesaler can be discredited by the potential monetary gain or loss. I'm looking for proof that can't be tainted. Undeniable testimony and photographic proof from a reputable hobbyist that has actually bred these shrimp themselves. Several reputable hobbyists with identical testimony would be even better.
> 
> I don't see any reason to doubt my story. Everyone knows I personally import my own shrimp from many different wholesalers. What do I have to gain or lose by stating what I have been told from many different reputable sources who I have personally established relationships with? Obviously they don't want to sell me something that they know I'm not going to be happy with.
> 
> Again, this isn't a witch hunt, it's a search for undeniably documented facts for the good of the hobby and the community. It's not a bad thing.


Other than Chad and me, no one else has this shrimp in north america. And Chad suffered a loss in his tank where it whipped out several tanks stocks. All others that I know of that has even bought this shrimp and bred are high level breeders. Your only other way to get your confirmation "since its not from me:icon_lol:" ask your supplier"s" to post something to prove your point. otherwise I can say same to you about whats legit or not I mean, i've never seen a single baby bkk from you? but whatever thats just getting a little personal now. Contact people from Singapore. GC-shop sells it.


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

msnikkistar said:


> Fu Shrimp is one, and the other I am not sure wants to be named. That, I have to ask permission for.


So if I wanted to buy some, I could only get them from two sources?


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

No there are more, but most of them got their original livestock from Fu Shrimp or the other I believe.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> Other than Chad and me, no one else has this shrimp in north america. And Chad suffered a loss in his tank where it whipped out several tanks stocks. All others that I know of that has even bought this shrimp and bred are high level breeders. Your only other way to get your confirmation "since its not from me:icon_lol:" ask your supplier"s" to post something to prove your point. otherwise I can say same to you about whats legit or not I mean, i've never seen a single baby bkk from you? but whatever thats just getting a little personal now. Contact people from Singapore. GC-shop sells it.


 You've only sold these shrimp to one person? I'm surprised, I would have thought more people had purchased them. How long have you had them available? They've been available on Nikki's page for quite some time. Still are I believe.

As for my shrimp, I've posted many pictures of them, but I'm not sure what that has to do with any of this. We're talking about Aura Blue/Fire Blue shrimp and whether or not they breed true.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

They have been on my page, but not available for sale til now.


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

mordalphus said:


> Yes, I know someone who keeps them, (seeing as how I also sell them).
> 
> They have the potential to interbreed with CRS/CBS, Tigers, etc.
> 
> There have been _NO_ confirmed cases of this happening, but it _IS_ possible.



I thought OEBT's and CRS/CBS didn't interbreed? So if Aura's are cardina then they wouldn't breed with OEBT's but will with CRS/CBS?

Sorry to keep asking it just seems like depending on who you ask you will get a different answer. Also does anyone know what tank parameters they prefer to be kept in? Again sorry for asking the same question, but I have researched and found different answers and even in this post it shifts from no to yes....


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> Again, this isn't a witch hunt, it's a search for undeniably documented facts for the good of the hobby and the community. It's not a bad thing.


Your absolutley right. It isn't a bad thing. However, its because of accusations like yours without definite proof on your side that cause the hobby to turn the other way. Instead of rephrasing and asking it in a question you come out bluntly stating this is this and this is that. Why would you need proof? Once proof is provided does that mean your wholsalers / suppliers are culprits of killing the hobby of giving out false information? You get what I'm saying? Don't say something you can't disprove. How will people in the hobby know whether it breeds true or not if they don't first try? Here is an example. In 1-2 months time there is going to be a new shrimp that is coming out called blue angel (this is a fact) This specific morph 2 years ago I know of 1 person that has seen it in their colony but they don't breed true. But at present a breeder comes out and says "I have blue angels and these breed true". The other person that has got it 2 years ago may then say I have (had) these and they don't breed true. Both are reputable breeders if people believe the person that it doesn't breed true. That line will never expand because people have never tried. But the information left out was that breeder never selectively bred and did the hard work of selectively breeding for the 2 years. 

Also, what would a photo prove that experience doesn't prove better? Can babies and juvies not also be dyed if thats your claim that it was dyed?

This is just too much back and forthing. You can't even provide a single name yet i've provided the source of it being Fu Shrimp its bluntly out in the open. Contact them. This is why I doubt your story. For a reputable wholsaler if they are right that they don't breed true they would get the thumbs up and hands clapped all around for protecting the hobby and stating whats true in the hobby. And perhaps they will get even more customers buying from them and you giving them this opportunity to expand in such a way heck you may be given some sort of perk.:biggrin: get my drift.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> You've only sold these shrimp to one person? I'm surprised, I would have thought more people had purchased them. How long have you had them available? They've been available on Nikki's page for quite some time. Still are I believe.
> 
> As for my shrimp, I've posted many pictures of them, but I'm not sure what that has to do with any of this. We're talking about Aura Blue/Fire Blue shrimp and whether or not they breed true.


You want to know why they weren't available? Because I wanted to make sure 100% they bred true thats why I took so much time to raise up a large colony so shrimp enthusiast can enjoy the great prices instead of paying 40+ USD like in HK. 

Secondly, if you've bred your BKK's its 1 thing for it to carry eggs, its another for it to hatch and another for it to even survive. Since you don't trust my pictures and such who cares, go on SN and contact mananaP (stephan) and say you want confirmation of frank ____ and fill in the blanks with whatever you want.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

dj2606 said:


> I thought OEBT's and CRS/CBS didn't interbreed? So if Aura's are cardina then they wouldn't breed with OEBT's but will with CRS/CBS?
> 
> Sorry to keep asking it just seems like depending on who you ask you will get a different answer. Also does anyone know what tank parameters they prefer to be kept in? Again sorry for asking the same question, but I have researched and found different answers and even in this post it shifts from no to yes....


Oebts and crs are both cantonensis, tigers and crs can breed together to make tigerbees


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Now, what I REALLY want to see are the Blue Angels...I hope they are solid blue...or maybe they are blue and yellow like the airplane Blue Angels.

View attachment 36087


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

http://www.planetinverts.com/Will These Shrimp Interbreed.html

Just going off this chart. Says Blue tigers and CRS do not breed, unless my eyes are crossing the lines and not reading this correctly. 

Maybe I should get the aura's and house them separately from other shrimp. =)


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Now, what I REALLY want to see are the Blue Angels...I hope they are solid blue...or maybe they are blue and yellow like the airplane Blue Angels.


True that, anyone have pics?


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

dj2606 said:


> True that, anyone have pics?


Only a handful of people have them sorry lol must go according to when the breeders says and release the pics when they say its ok. But Liam and Nikki can tease you with descriptions.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

dj2606 said:


> http://www.planetinverts.com/Will These Shrimp Interbreed.html
> 
> Just going off this chart. Says Blue tigers and CRS do not breed, unless my eyes are crossing the lines and not reading this correctly.
> 
> Maybe I should get the aura's and house them separately from other shrimp. =)


That chart is wrong. There are lots of Tibees out there.

Edit: I need to take reading classes. Can they be houses together?...not will they breed together....


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> Your absolutley right. It isn't a bad thing. However, its because of accusations like yours without definite proof on your side that cause the hobby to turn the other way. Instead of rephrasing and asking it in a question you come out bluntly stating this is this and this is that. Why would you need proof? Once proof is provided does that mean your wholsalers / suppliers are culprits of killing the hobby of giving out false information? You get what I'm saying? Don't say something you can't disprove. How will people in the hobby know whether it breeds true or not if they don't first try? Here is an example. In 1-2 months time there is going to be a new shrimp that is coming out called blue angel (this is a fact) This specific morph 2 years ago I know of 1 person that has seen it in their colony but they don't breed true. But at present a breeder comes out and says "I have blue angels and these breed true". The other person that has got it 2 years ago may then say I have (had) these and they don't breed true. Both are reputable breeders if people believe the person that it doesn't breed true. That line will never expand because people have never tried. But the information left out was that breeder never selectively bred and did the hard work of selectively breeding for the 2 years.
> 
> Also, what would a photo prove that experience doesn't prove better? Can babies and juvies not also be dyed if thats your claim that it was dyed?
> 
> This is just too much back and forthing. You can't even provide a single name yet i've provided the source of it being Fu Shrimp its bluntly out in the open. Contact them. This is why I doubt your story. For a reputable wholsaler if they are right that they don't breed true they would get the thumbs up and hands clapped all around for protecting the hobby and stating whats true in the hobby. And perhaps they will get even more customers buying from them and you giving them this opportunity to expand in such a way heck you may be given some sort of perk.:biggrin: get my drift.


 Firstly, I didn't make any accusations. I only repeated what I was told from reputable sources. Large wholesalers with a reputation for quality who don't offer Aura Blue/Fire Blue shrimp because they didn't breed true and were possibly dyed. These are people who I have spent many, many thousands of dollars with and formed personal friendships with. Simply put, I have absolute trust in them and their experience, which has served me well. I don't have to provide the names of my sources to you because believe it or not, they don't require your help to run their business. 

Certainly baby shrimp can be dyed which is specifically why I asked that neither retailer or wholesaler provide anything. Only reputable hobbyists who have personally bred these shrimp.

You keep asking me for proof, but you are no less burdened for proof than I am and yet you can't provide a single customer who can undeniably prove that these shrimp breed true. By your own standards I guess we can't believe you either.

As for your weak and petty accusation that I might be getting some perk... Do you really think such a dubious plan would be hatched in a single subforum in the smallest shrimp marketplace on the planet? Paranoid and laughable at best.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Yes me and Liam have seen the blue angels and they are PWETTTTTTY lol


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

shrimpnmoss said:


> That chart is wrong. There are lots of Tibees out there.


Do you have another source for a chart? Would be helpful considering how many different shrimps are available now =). When I first started keeping PT's about five years ago there weren't as many, now my heads spinning trying to remember which interbreeds with what. Guess I'm just getting old =)


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

The chart is right, ur reading it backwards, lol


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

dj2606 said:


> Do you have another source for a chart? Would be helpful considering how many different shrimps are available now =). When I first started keeping PT's about five years ago there weren't as many, now my heads spinning trying to remember which interbreeds with what. Guess I'm just getting old =)


You're looked at the planet inverts chart wrong. It shows tigers, black tigers, blue tigers and has a grey box, which mean they CANNOT be house together with crystals.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> The problem is that I can't name anyone who has had them breed true.
> 
> Firstly, we have to point out that "Aura Blues" are really just "Fire Blues" by a different name. I don't personally know any hobbyists who have bought or bred either of them, but I do know several reputable wholesalers. What I'd like to find is someone in the hobby (not a retailer) that has bred them and can provide images of their colony along with berried females and blue juveniles mixed in with their colony. I know, it's a steep request, but I'm looking for actual documentation from a reputable hobbyist. Should be pretty interesting. If there are indeed two stains (One that breeds true and one that is dyed) then we need to get that figured out. If they do indeed breed true, then I'd be more interested in acquiring some as I imagine others would.


I'm a little confused... if Aura Blues are really Fire Blues (Neocaridina sp), then why are they being marketed as Caridina?


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

exactly you see they are telling this to " the smallest shrimp marketplace on the planet" imagine whats happening to asia since your "reputable wholsaler" is maybe wholesaling in asia. 

"Firstly, I didn't make any accusations. I only repeated what I was told from reputable sources." dude your making that accusation as well by repeating and going with that accusation. You would be just as at fault as the person who started it but because your protecting whoever starting it. All heats on you. Why take the heat of someone whos reputable and can fend for themselves. I'm all out in the open and telling you exactly the originator of it (Fu) and so whatever just doesn't click.

But it's plain and simple I've already provided a scenario of why its important to prove that your information is trustworthy first. Because how would you get proof from "hobbyists" when they are all paranoid that they don't breed true and try to prove that point. 

And the reason above on post 34 is why very few has been released. 

The point still stands, if the persons reputable then there is no reason to hide the person who started the accusation. I've already given up the information. I'm not crap starting anything. you came in this thread right from the start basically saying this is not true. with no evidence. yet your wanting evidence of it being true?


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

speedie408 said:


> I'm a little confused... if Aura Blues are really Fire Blues (Neocaridina sp), then why are they being marketed as Caridina?


Oh hey dude =) earlier on the thread nikki never updated her info. Canadian sites the right info =P and i guess I could say that we wanted everything confirmed before making it available to everyone. But i'd be lying =P


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

LOL at this heated debate Aura Blue breeds true or not.

Mr. Fusion wants testimony from a hobbyist regarding color stability. Jiang604 wants name of Mr. Fusion's source. (understandably) Mr. Fusion won't reveal source. (understandably) *Jiang604 post from his own personal experience that they do breed true. * We should leave it at that until someone testifies that Aura Blues do not breed true. I'm going to assume that they breed true until proven otherwise.

Just like the Red Nerite that I saw and posted a couple of days ago. Anything new immediately comes under suspicion. Is it dyed...Is it fake..blah..blah..blah... I'm personally a glass half full type of guy and I'm going to assume most people are honest. If I'm wrong, I might be out a few bucks. But the person that committed the fraud will be out of their reputation. Worth while trade IMO for the truth. The truth will always come out in the end.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Actually it's your Canadian site that has them under Caridina. So you're confirming they're Neocaridina sp right? Still a little confused, sorry.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

I think the only person that likes to hear Mr. Fusion talk is, himself.



msnikkistar said:


> Yes me and Liam have seen the blue angels and they are PWETTTTTTY lol


Please tell us more!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> The chart is right, ur reading it backwards, lol



Will someone get me some reading glasses and a big cup of coffee please...:hihi:


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

speedie408 said:


> Actually it's your Canadian site that has them under Caridina. So you're confirming they're Neocaridina sp right? Still a little confused, sorry.


They are caridina, Nikki's wasn't updated. Thats the very reason name was changed to Aura blue because people think fire red = neo so therefore fire blue = neo


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

msnikkistar said:


> Yes me and Liam have seen the blue angels and they are PWETTTTTTY lol


Yes, elaborate plz.

pwetty blue? pwetty dark blue? pwetty neo? pwetty taiwans?....I'm just going to assume pwetty expensive for now....lol


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

shrimpnmoss said:


> LOL at this heated debate Aura Blue breeds true or not.
> 
> Mr. Fusion wants testimony from a hobbyist regarding color stability. Jiang604 wants name of Mr. Fusion's source. (understandably) Mr. Fusion won't reveal source. (understandably) *Jiang604 post from his own personal experience that they do breed true. *We should leave it at that until someone testifies that Aura Blues do not breed true. I'm going to assume that they breed true until proven otherwise.
> 
> Just like the Red Nerite that I saw and posted a couple of days ago. Anything new immediately comes under suspicion. Is it dyed...Is it fake..blah..blah..blah... I'm personally a glass half full type of guy and I'm going to assume most people are honest. If I'm wrong, I might be out a few bucks. But the person that committed the fraud will be out of their reputation. Worth while trade IMO for the truth. The truth will always come out in the end.


Well said!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

jiang604 said:


> They are caridina, Nikki's wasn't updated. Thats the very reason name was changed to Aura blue because people think fire red = neo so therefore fire blue = neo


Gotcha.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

shrimpnmoss said:


> LOL at this heated debate Aura Blue breeds true or not.
> 
> Mr. Fusion wants testimony from a hobbyist regarding color stability. Jiang604 wants name of Mr. Fusion's source. (understandably) Mr. Fusion won't reveal source. (understandably) *Jiang604 post from his own personal experience that they do breed true. * We should leave it at that until someone testifies that Aura Blues do not breed true. I'm going to assume that they breed true until proven otherwise.
> 
> Just like the Red Nerite that I saw and posted a couple of days ago. Anything new immediately comes under suspicion. Is it dyed...Is it fake..blah..blah..blah... I'm personally a glass half full type of guy and I'm going to assume most people are honest. If I'm wrong, I might be out a few bucks. But the person that committed the fraud will be out of their reputation. Worth while trade IMO for the truth. The truth will always come out in the end.


lol, your right Howard =) 
Given past experiences with people why would I put my rep on the line for something I haven't done and proven true first before saying. 

but on the otherhand, only reason i want the name of the source is the very same reason that mr fusion has "a search for undeniably documented facts for the good of the hobby and the community. " post 26. I've put out fu shrimp on the chopping block, just waiting for your end. so once its proven but "hobbyist" then we will know who will get chopped as they are just making rumors and is no good for the hobby. That's what i'm saying plain and simple.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Yes, elaborate plz.
> 
> pwetty blue? pwetty dark blue? pwetty neo? pwetty taiwans?....I'm just going to assume pwetty expensive for now....lol


 
hahaha you're killing me :hihi:


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

I'm guessing the blue angels will be blue and white. Is it neo or caridinia?

Maybe Mr.Fusion can buy some Aura Blue from Nicole and find out himself if they breed true or not? Then come back here to update us all. You can only trust yourself, right?


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

They are a deep navy blue looking shrimp.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> lol, your right Howard =)
> Given past experiences with people why would I put my rep on the line for something I haven't done and proven true first before saying.
> 
> but on the otherhand, only reason i want the name of the source is the very same reason that mr fusion has "a search for undeniably documented facts for the good of the hobby and the community. " post 26. I've put out fu shrimp on the chopping block, just waiting for your end. so once its proven but "hobbyist" then we will know who will get chopped as they are just making rumors and is no good for the hobby. That's what i'm saying plain and simple.


 
I see no reason for you to be so defensive. If you're certain these shrimp breed true, then the proof will be in the pudding. Nobody has to listen to what my sources have told me. If your reputation is so untarnished, then clearly nobody has anything to worry about and we can all look forward to seeing loads and loads of baby Aura Blue shrimp in many hobbyist aquariums in the future. I know I'm sure looking forward to seeing that happen.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm a little tired of every thread about new shrimp getting off topic after like three posts. This thread was about Aura blues and OEBTs together interbreeding, and if auras are caridina or neocaridina... not any of that other stuff.

Fusion, your accusations don't belong in such a thread as this... just saying. :/

I know of a few people in different countries that sell them publicly... so I'm not giving away anything. One is Green Chapter (they had them on their website I believe as of last week but not this week that I can find) and have had them since a while ago. I don't think they'd be selling these shrimp if they didn't breed true...

edit: As one of the people that is gonna get some auras, I'll be more than willing to test out if they breed true or not.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> I see no reason for you to be so defensive. If you're certain these shrimp breed true, then the proof will be in the pudding. Nobody has to listen to what my sources have told me. If your reputation is so untarnished, then clearly nobody has anything to worry about and we can all look forward to seeing loads and loads of baby Aura Blue shrimp in many hobbyist aquariums in the future. I know I'm sure looking forward to seeing that happen.


Its simple, rumors. why spread it to try and hurt a company so that their company can flourish. Thats just bad business ethics. Just to clarify, me personally, i'm classifying it as a rumor only because I have my experience with it and know from my experience. But right now... read this post: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1552332-post47.html

why would you take the heat for a company that has such a reputable reputation. Your being protective, but protective of what? I'm being defensive, because you see it all the time where people spread rumors just to make a sale. Its pitiful. And this is a hobby, why ruin it by saying he said she said or i was told this and that and not experience it for yourself. You coulda done the same thing said nothing and prove me wrong by trying it or find evidence yourself and do your work to prove your point instead of using the he said she said / i was told.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> I'm a little tired of every thread about new shrimp getting off topic after like three posts. This thread was about Aura blues and OEBTs together interbreeding, and if auras are caridina or neocaridina... not any of that other stuff.
> 
> Fusion, your accusations don't belong in such a thread as this... just saying. :/
> 
> I know of a few people in different countries that sell them publicly... so I'm not giving away anything. One is Green Chapter (they had them on their website I believe as of last week but not this week that I can find) and have had them since a while ago. I don't think they'd be selling these shrimp if they didn't breed true...


Thats correct, GC (run by Roland) was one of the earlier buyers and has continued to buy to date.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

You know where the mistake is in all of this, Frank? You think it's all about you when it was really just about the shrimp. Had you responded in a more mature and professional manner you would have saved a lot of face. This is a hobbyist forum where things like this are going to be discussed. Whether or not you choose to participate or wage war on the hobbyists is entirely up to you.

In the interest of the hobby I certainly hope people will give these shrimp a shot. It would be a wonderful thing to have another nice shrimp in the hobby.


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## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

Wow, what a thread! Just like electronics and software, though, I'm going to wait on Blue Auras 2.5 or higher... But I will have a few reddish pink shrimp tonight as an appetizer. :biggrin:


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Buff Daddy said:


> Wow, what a thread! Just like electronics and software, though, I'm going to wait on Blue Auras 2.5 or higher... But I will have a few reddish pink shrimp tonight as an appetizer. :biggrin:


haha...just like technology the better one is around the corner...leopard to snow leopard... .Aura Blue to Blue Angels....King Kongs will be like cherries soon....wait until the shrimp breeders launch Godzilla and Mothra.....there better not be any DRM in my shrimp....SRM?


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> You know where the mistake is in all of this, Frank? You think it's all about you when it was really just about the shrimp. Had you responded in a more mature and professional manner you would have saved a lot of face. This is a hobbyist forum where things like this are going to be discussed. Whether or not you choose to participate or wage war on the hobbyists is entirely up to you.
> 
> In the interest of the hobby I certainly hope people will give these shrimp a shot. It would be a wonderful thing to have another nice shrimp in the hobby.


sorry about the delay had to go grab something :icon_smil 

errrr ok? so your pushing it on my side of the playing field now? lol How is it about me at all? Please elaborate through pm as thats just personal. The trend that I think everyone can see is quite simple. Something comes out of shrimplab and most of the time you've got something negative to say. So really? are you sure its about me? I've done more for the hobby out of my way than I really should. 1 obvious example. shrimplab puts out stainless steel strainers and you have something negative to say about it. Aura blue, someone just wants to know about the crossing and for some wierd reason you just push out something negative again: "I'm not entirely sure that the Aura Blues breed true either. Quite a few wholesalers stopped carrying them because they weren't producing any blue offspring and were believe to be dyed." You coulda just said that you weren't entirely sure they breed true any one have any experience with this shrimp instead of the rest which basically implies don't buy.

Regardless, all of this could have been avoided. Your better option would have been to go on SN to post and prove your point there and bring it back here since thats an international based Site.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

:icon_roll

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a hobbyist forum is it not? Products and shrimp are going to be discussed which may or may not be to your liking. Such is life. Such is business. 

The stainless steal strainers don't work because they don't gradually restrict flow like a sponge will. Put a baby shrimp by the closest point to the intake and see what happens, then try the same experiment with a sponge. The sponge works better. FACT. 

All opinions on this forum aren't always going to serve your business interests so I suggest you accept it. This business of making everything a personal issue just so you can get any negative feedback deleted is unprofessional. Take the feedback for what it is and make your business bigger, better and stronger instead of killing it by attacking your customer base.


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## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

From a constant lurker, occasional poster, and someone who has spent many thousands of dollars on shrimps...

Mr. Fusion: I got your point. It is always fair to question a distributor if there is doubt. And in fact, since we are dealing with so much cash and little info, how can the public not have doubt? Still, saying "unnamed sources tell me that..." just leaves a bad taste. You won't name sources, and the distributor can't offer proof. It would have been better to ask for the proof without prefacing it by saying that people that you trust so much say they likely don't breed true. That he said/she said stuff leaves us with frustration and pointless back and forths like we have here.

To Nikki and Liam: The mere fact that you have them up for offer and have your name behind them lends the interest for me. If it weren't for your name, I would pass 100%. I bet that a lot of people around here feel the same way. If it turns out that they don't breed true, it won't be a red strike against anyone, but just a small disappointment at this point. Nothing nefarious. I'll just assume that everyone has done their homework. 

For Jiang604: As a businessman, it looks exceedingly bad to argue on an internet messageboard and doesn't lend trust. You don't see most businesses do that and for good reason. To merely recognize the doubt with something like "I can understand your trepidation, but I feel that your sources are wrong on this one, and time will prove me right" should be enough. If you had to "internet fight" every inappropriate comment on the internet then you wouldn't have time to eat or sleep. Also, considering the amount of money flowing around, it's not unreasonable at all for someone to ask for pics and lots of them. If the "friends" we're talking about are really friends, and they own businesses, then I'm guessing they have access to digital cameras, and proof should take all of a few hours. Is their an email server down somewhere I don't know about? Why the shroud of mystery? Just to create intrigue?

Anyway, I am still on the fence with Aura Blue's, but I may order a few through Nikki if someone can go into a little bit more detail about their parameters. Are they closer to CRS or OEBT in their PH requirements for example? Temperamental like BKK or closer to OEBT in that sense?


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

youjettisonme said:


> From a constant lurker, occasional poster, and someone who has spent many thousands of dollars on shrimps...
> 
> Mr. Fusion: I got your point. It is always fair to question a distributor if there is doubt. And in fact, since we are dealing with so much cash and little info, how can the public not have doubt? Still, saying "unnamed sources tell me that..." just leaves a bad taste. You won't name sources, and the distributor can't offer proof. It would have been better to ask for the proof without prefacing it by saying that people that you trust so much say they likely don't breed true. That he said/she said stuff leaves us with frustration and pointless back and forths like we have here.


 Totally understandable, but here's the truth behind it. Making wholesale contacts overseas can be exceedingly difficult for a multitude of reasons. The primary reason I won't give out my sources is because I'm not a reseller. Resellers get pissed off with their wholesalers when they sell product to someone who might be a potential customer of theirs. If the wholesaler catches any heat from a reseller, they have to worry about losing resale customers. I have no desire to pay full price for Taiwan Bees or any other shrimp so maintaining confidentiality is in my best interest and in the best interest of my wholesalers.

Like you, I have spent thousands of dollars with my wholesale connections. They trust me and I trust them. When my contacts warned me against this particular shrimp, they lost a potentially large sail. I believe they were honest with me in order to maintain a trusting relationship so I would continue to do business with them in the future and they were right. I have no reason to believe my wholesalers were lying.


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

Frank, I'm not trying to put anything/anyone is question, but since you said aura blues are in the same line as tangerine tigers, and some believe tangerine tigers are Caridina serrata, could it be possible that aura blues are serrata? Close relatives to blue tupfels? I want some sooo badly...but I'm sooo broke. lol.

Those blue angel shrimp sound cool! Preview please!


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

still waiting on crystal purple shrimp!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

IWANNAGOFAST said:


> still waiting on crystal purple shrimp!



I want a shrimp with black and red stripes with no white...maybe all black body with red headgear or vise versa


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm waiting on crystal blue bolts...you know like CRS, but instead of red, blue, like the blue of a blue bolt. That'd be awesome!


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

We taking requests now? Lol

*gets out his shrimp painting set*


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

Paint away Liam! 

Oh, while your at it, how 'bout some crystal greens? Orange eye green tigers? Orange and black tiger shrimp (legit "tiger" shrimp)? lolololol!

Please someone tell me more about these blue angel shrimp!


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

shrimpnmoss said:


> That chart is wrong. There are lots of Tibees out there.
> 
> Edit: I need to take reading classes. Can they be houses together?...not will they breed together....


Apparently as do I :hihi:


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

If you don't want to take my word for it here is a thread from a forum in Singapore with people talking about the same problem. I don't know these people and I'm not registered on the forum. 

"ya,the uncle at midori told me he gt scam as the colours are not good,he said he will not be importing in anymore"

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/75124-Fire-blue-shrimps


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

I find that the one I have is thriving in parametersof my CRS and oebt but remember, I a not breeding them.... Yet

Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> If you don't want to take my word for it here is a thread from a forum in Singapore with people talking about the same problem. I don't know these people and I'm not registered on the forum.
> 
> "ya,the uncle at midori told me he gt scam as the colours are not good,he said he will not be importing in anymore"
> 
> http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/75124-Fire-blue-shrimps


i'll take a closer look on the other responses after. But let me ask you this. Midori = ? ..... Midori's website got changed to GC same owner. So why did he order again?

Edit: So what does this even prove? does it prove not breeding true or does it prove lighter color? what does not good in this sense mean? or are we just going to speculate?


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> i'll take a closer look on the other responses after. But let me ask you this. Midori = ? ..... Midori's website got changed to GC same owner. So why did he order again?
> 
> Edit: So what does this even prove? does it prove not breeding true or does it prove lighter color? what does not good in this sense mean? *or are we just going to speculate?*


That is the exact problem.

There is a void of information being provided on these shrimp.

When there is conflicting information and a lack of information in general there is always going to be doubt and controversy.

For a shrimp that you helped name and which you have obviously been planning to introduce to this market for months (if not longer) you appear to be totally unprepared to support or market this shrimp.

After the firestorm that followed the name announcement around the English langauge shrimp forums last spring how could you NOT expect doubt and skepticism when releasing these shrimp to the market?

Rather than stepping in to provide credible information about the shrimp your efforts seem to have consisted of either telling people that they should take it on faith or attacking those who are openly skeptical.

The more secretive and hostile you act the more people are going to be inclined to believe that something unethical is going on. I do not believe this to be the case but the point is that it never had to come to this.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Reading through this thread I was like why you guys talkin about fighter jets? Then I saw Frank's little blurb about blue angels 

You poisoned me with new shrimp thoughts. lol

I don't doubt at all Nikki Liam or Frank. I don't think they'd ever purposefully screw over any of their customers. They're doing a nice thing by offering these shrimp which so far have only been available overseas, to the US, and I think its only fair you treat them with a little respect.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> We taking requests now? Lol
> 
> *gets out his shrimp painting set*


Liam, we've seen your painting skills...for the love of shrimps please put down the shrimp painting set...please....:icon_wink


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

I think this is getting out of hand....but sniping aside, I'd still like to see pictures from a few hobbyists that have raised Aura Blues.

That's the easiest way to settle it, especially given the checkered history of previous blue shrimp strains in the hobby.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

Well said, Madness. Thank you for getting a point across that I could not. 


SeniorShrimpo - Nobody is really concerned with the genetics and how the shrimp came into being. The discussion is over quality and whether or not this shrimp breeds a true blue color or if it's enhanced and/or misrepresented etc. Some people say yes and some people say no, which has brought us to this little situation.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Liam, we've seen your painting skills...for the love of shrimps please put down the shrimp painting set...please....:icon_wink


Ohh lawd. I wanna see! Make one with a little car one it 



MrFusion said:


> Well said, Madness. Thank you for getting a point across that I could not.
> 
> 
> SeniorShrimpo - Nobody is really concerned with the genetics and how the shrimp came into being. The discussion is over quality and whether or not this shrimp breeds a true blue color or if it's enhanced and/or misrepresented etc. Some people say yes and some people say no, which has brought us to this little situation.


Bud, breeding true blue color has a lot to do with genetics... :tongue: So far I'm seeing people who keep the shrimp say yes, people who have heard rumors say no. :/


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I thought the discussion was whether or not blue auras crossed with OEBT. And the answer is yes.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

MrFusion said:


> Well said, Madness. Thank you for getting a point across that I could not.
> 
> 
> SeniorShrimpo - Nobody is really concerned with the genetics and how the shrimp came into being. The discussion is over quality and whether or not this shrimp breeds a true blue color or if it's enhanced and/or misrepresented etc. Some people say yes and some people say no, which has brought us to this little situation.


So if Frank showed a pic of a tank of adults, berried moms, babies and juvi's all running around in a tank colored blue, you would assume he dyed them and possibly ruin his reputation for selling quality shrimp over dying some shrimp to make a few bucks from. They're not even near his most expensive shrimp. Seems a lot of work to go through. He's better off taking snow whites and dying them blue and calling them blue bolts, at least those go for 10x the price of the Aura Blues. I did some searching earlier and found pics When Frank just got the shrimp, before the name thing, and he's showing berried moms, babies and adults, all blue, so he must have been planning this scam for almost a year when he just posted the pics innocently enough to show some new shrimp he got in.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> I thought the discussion was whether or not blue auras crossed with OEBT. And the answer is yes.


Good to know. lol.

I see lots of people that have CRS/CBS together with like OEBT's and such and never seem to get tibees. Will they more stick to their own if there are a bunch in a tank, or is it only a matter of time before you start getting crosses?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

They seem to prefer their own type, but pairing is a good way to get them to breed. Also I believe it's easier to breed a certain way, IE. a tiger male and a CRS female. But I'm not sure if that's right, it might be tiger female to crs male, I forgot which way is easier.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Bud, breeding true blue color has a lot to do with genetics... :tongue: So far I'm seeing people who keep the shrimp say yes, people who have heard rumors say no. :/



Yeah, but the genetic history still has nothing to do with what we're discussing here. 

The only people currently keeping the shrimp are the ones trying to sell them. In the world of fact and science that's not always the most reputable source. 

I know these people are your friends and you want to protect them, but this isn't a personal issue. At least not from my side it isn't. I want facts on this shrimp not a finger in the eye for asking questions.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

GeToChKn said:


> He's better off taking snow whites and dying them blue and calling them blue bolts, at least those go for 10x the price of the Aura Blues.


Err, how'd you know that's what I do?? Lol I mean um... nothing :icon_cool

I wanna ask, are these shrimp a type of Tangerine Tiger? Because the stripe like things on the shrimp lab's look sort of like Tangerine tigers and how not all of them have them. But on other sites, I haven't seen them with stripe type markings. If they're tangerine tigers/ a type of them, would they still crossbreed with OEBTs?

Edit: Fusion, I have no beef with you either. I'll personally test out these shrimps for ya- no risk for you and we can both get the facts. Sound good?


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

GeToChKn said:


> So if Frank showed a pic of a tank of adults, berried moms, babies and juvi's all running around in a tank colored blue, you would assume he dyed them and possibly ruin his reputation for selling quality shrimp over dying some shrimp to make a few bucks from. They're not even near his most expensive shrimp. Seems a lot of work to go through. He's better off taking snow whites and dying them blue and calling them blue bolts, at least those go for 10x the price of the Aura Blues. I did some searching earlier and found pics When Frank just got the shrimp, before the name thing, and he's showing berried moms, babies and adults, all blue, so he must have been planning this scam for almost a year when he just posted the pics innocently enough to show some new shrimp he got in.


 Yeah, I saw those pictures too, but that could be stock he just imported. He pointed that out himself. Information from people who stand to profit is of little value. That's why we've been trying to locate reputable hobbyists with actual experience, which can't be provided. So far all we have is a tank full of dead shrimp and complaints about color quality.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> They seem to prefer their own type, but pairing is a good way to get them to breed. Also I believe it's easier to breed a certain way, IE. a tiger male and a CRS female. But I'm not sure if that's right, it might be tiger female to crs male, I forgot which way is easier.



Thanks. Was trying to decide if a dozen wild tigers and 2 dozen CRS in a 20 gallon would result in lots of weird tibees or the chance would be small.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Err, how'd you know that's what I do?? Lol I mean um... nothing
> 
> I wanna ask, are these shrimp a type of Tangerine Tiger? Because the stripe like things on the shrimp lab's look sort of like Tangerine tigers and how not all of them have them. But on other sites, I haven't seen them with stripe type markings. If they're tangerine tigers/ a type of them, would they still crossbreed with OEBTs?


Yep, tangerine tigers are closely related, and breed true as well.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Yep, tangerine tigers are closely related, and breed true as well.


 Which proves nothing as it is a completely different shrimp.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> Which proves nothing as it is a completely different shrimp.


I'm not so sure. AFAIK both these shrimps started appearing as of late 2010 early 2011 right? Both have similar markings and such. Who knows? Blue might be either the original or mutation color of TTs. The same thing happens with blue pearls, which can throw out Amber shrimp a lot.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> I'm not so sure. AFAIK both these shrimps started appearing as of late 2010 early 2011 right? Both have similar markings and such. Who knows? Blue might be either the original or mutation color of TTs. The same thing happens with blue pearls, which can throw out Amber shrimp a lot.


Or OEBT's that throw out blondes with orange eyes, or cherries that throw out chocolates. Ahhhhh, nothing breeds true!!!!!


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## jimko (Aug 17, 2007)

Okay I'll settle this and put the little reputation I have on the line...

Nikki, send me some and I'll run the breeding experiment and I'll start a new thread and post my findings... heehee. I'll designate a brand new tank for them.

Sound fair right!!! I'm just kidding.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

jimko said:


> okay i'll settle this and put the little reputation i have on the line...
> 
> Nikki, send me some and i'll run the breeding experiment and i'll start a new thread and post my findings... Heehee. I'll designate a brand new tank for them.
> 
> Sound fair right!!! I'm just kidding.


lol


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

jimko said:


> Okay I'll settle this and put the little reputation I have on the line...
> 
> Nikki, send me some and I'll run the breeding experiment and I'll start a new thread and post my findings... heehee. I'll designate a brand new tank for them.
> 
> Sound fair right!!! I'm just kidding.



Frank can send me some since I'm in Canada and we can both conduct a cross border test. Make sure they don't loose their color going through a TSA body scan or anything.


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

jimko said:


> Okay I'll settle this and put the little reputation I have on the line...
> 
> Nikki, send me some and I'll run the breeding experiment and I'll start a new thread and post my findings... heehee. I'll designate a brand new tank for them.
> 
> Sound fair right!!! I'm just kidding.


We can't have blue shrimp mixing in with all of your pretty red shrimp. 

Would ruin your branding.


----------



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

...after all this hot and heavy discussion. SOMEONE better buy some of these bad boys and breed them up and report back.

...don't look at me...I'm waiting for Snow White and the 7 Dwarf K14s....and Liam's painted shrimps....King Kongs with red head gear...


----------



## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

shrimpnmoss said:


> ...after all this hot and heavy discussion. SOMEONE better buy some of these bad boys and breed them up and report back.
> 
> ...don't look at me...I'm waiting for Snow White and the 7 Dwarf K14s....and Liam's painted shrimps....King Kongs with red head gear...


I already offered  I'm not even doing it for the investment of reselling them later. These ones, I'm getting purely for me, cuz I think they're really nice looking personally. I don't care how much they're worth really. They're a treat to me for selling a bunch of shrimp, haha.

Hahaha k14s are niceeeeeee.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

GeToChKn said:


> Good to know. lol.
> 
> I see lots of people that have CRS/CBS together with like OEBT's and such and never seem to get tibees. Will they more stick to their own if there are a bunch in a tank, or is it only a matter of time before you start getting crosses?


Like Liam said, they tend to stick to their own species, but there is a possibility of it happening. From time to time, you see posts here with people asking "what this shrimp is" and it ends up looking very much like a tibee. It is better not to mix them.



jimko said:


> Okay I'll settle this and put the little reputation I have on the line...
> 
> Nikki, send me some and I'll run the breeding experiment and I'll start a new thread and post my findings... heehee. I'll designate a brand new tank for them.
> 
> Sound fair right!!! I'm just kidding.





speedie408 said:


> lol


Jimmy, if anyone was going to get them, it would be speedie, cause I need pictures LOL


AGAIN FOLKS, MY SITE HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED, THEY ARE CARIDINAS! lol


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## jimko (Aug 17, 2007)

I was just trying to help you guys out!!! JK! Good Luck!


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

This threads got too much talk with no answers, since you want proof from other people with experience I thought why not move it to SN to take the debate on. http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/4947-What-blue-shrimp-is-this-Aura-Blue-Shrimp/page2 I've asked silane and any other person that has had experience with Aura blue. Only thing that doesn't add up is which supplier your talking about as there was no complaint at all that i'm aware of it not breeding true. Even that link about midori what does it even tell you? does it imply it not breeding true?


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Wow. Those photos Silane posted up looks NICE! That's a nice blue. I need more tanks.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Well, I see a bunch of baby blue shrimplets there. That clears it up for me


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Lots of dyed blue babies there :icon_roll

lol


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Works for me (Silane's experience and shared photos).


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

Great! Thanks to Silane for contributing some actual information on this. 

Frank, it's to bad you didn't contact Silane sooner.





GeToChKn said:


> Lots of dyed blue babies there :icon_roll
> 
> lol


 You wouldn't know unless someone asked would you?


----------



## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> Great! Thanks to Silane for contributing some actual information on this.
> 
> Frank, it's to bad you didn't contact Silane sooner.
> 
> ...


is that the only thing you can come up with? lol saying everything is me? including this debate was my fault? You didn't even try to prove me wrong. I was deliberately giving you some time to do something to discredit me somehow. But like i've said I've even given you the suggestion to put it on an international based forum (SN) but you just went and tried to look for old old threads but still came up empty handed. When a simple post like that would have proved your point. So that last sentence I guess speaks for itself sure says alot about you. 

I guess those suppliers of yours aren't so reputable afterall? since the evidence provided was from a reputable breeder. Still not going to give up the name of the person that started the rumors eh? =P oh wells i'll leave it at that.


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Why would he possibly agree to provide the names of his sources when you are actively threatening them?

That makes zero sense. It is pretty clear that there is some sort of personal conflict going on here.

Fortunately those of us who don't have a personal stake in this argument now have significantly more useful data on this breed than we did before this all started. I am looking forward to seeing this shrimp spread a little further in the North American hobby.


----------



## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

is thread is becoming quite entertaining..... glad you guys found some info.


----------



## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> is that the only thing you can come up with? lol saying everything is me? including this debate was my fault? You didn't even try to prove me wrong. I was deliberately giving you some time to do something to discredit me somehow. But like i've said I've even given you the suggestion to put it on an international based forum (SN) but you just went and tried to look for old old threads but still came up empty handed. When a simple post like that would have proved your point. So that last sentence I guess speaks for itself sure says alot about you. Why not personally thank silane on SN?
> 
> I guess those suppliers of yours aren't so reputable afterall? since the evidence provided was from a reputable breeder. Still not going to give up the name of the person that started the rumors eh? =P oh wells i'll leave it at that.


 Well, you did huff and puff right out of the gate. I'm not the only one to point that out. Anyway, technically the thread you linked was Silane asking questions about the shrimp, which doesn't seem entirely relevant. Didn't you read it? Here's the first post. 

Again, stop with the personal attacks. It's childish and it isn't going to help you make any new friends. 




silane said:


> Found this blue shrimp:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Whether or not Silane is speaking from experience or repeating what he has been told about the shrimp isn't yet clear, but I took the liberty of asking him in the thread you posted. I should have done that before replying to this thread, but hindsight is 20/20.


----------



## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

madness said:


> Why would he possibly agree to provide the names of his sources when you are actively threatening them?
> 
> That makes zero sense.


so if people do get shrimps from them can question more about the integrity of the information. I was under fire just because of 1 post that said it didn't breed true as it was said by someone that passed onto another person but there was no evidence. Heres the logic in which I see it but of course you can doubt it.

nikki and liam gets questioned about whether aura blue breeds true. they tell their supplier (me) that someone was doubting the information that i had given them (so it may possibly be a rumor i was making up to sell aura blues). But I come out and stand behind that claim and go through all this crap and even have to go ask in a public forum for their experiences because 1 person says my claim isn't enough.

adam gets questioned whether his claim of not breeding true is true. he may or not may not tell his suppler (so theres doubt there since he claims they are reputable and such and such that hes basically dealt with them and stuff). They don't come out nor is there any evidence backing up this "claim". not only that he uses "its my fault" as an excuse. 

so why is it that his 1 claim with nothing to back it up outweighs my right to ask for the same thing in return. Its totally not fair.

Not only that, isn't north america all about innocent until proven guilty so it should be the person that made the accusation proving that it isn't so. < - sorry just had to put that in. 

So please step back and look at it in another perspective. 

I totally understand that yes its that persons supplier and they don't want to give it up and such. but now that its proven that whoever that supplier is just providing false information, wouldn't it benefit the members to know who it was? I mean is it a secret that Adam got his tigers from Michael Nadal? or Nikki doing a group buy for people from him?


----------



## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> Well, you did huff and puff right out of the gate. I'm not the only one to point that out. Anyway, technically the thread you linked was Silane asking questions about the shrimp, which doesn't seem entirely relevant. Didn't you read it? Here's the first post.
> 
> Again, stop with the personal attacks. It's childish and it isn't going to help you make any new friends.
> 
> ...


read post before this. So your 1 claim is word of gold and my word of claim being the person that has and bred it for the benefit of providing a better pricing for members and taking the risk and breeding and making sure it breeds true before slapping my name under aura blue isn't a good enough claim?


----------



## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

TLDR, but at least the question was answered. Maybe now we can start a thread about the substandard Taiwan Bees you've been shipping out so we can get that resolved.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> TLDR, but at least the question was answered. Maybe now we can start a thread about the substandard Taiwan Bees you've been shipping out so we can get that resolved.


I'm sorry, so why are you changing subjects again?

if theres any complaints anyone can e-mail me. but if its shipping from nikki and liam to them what does that have to do with me? It gets to Liam within 3 hours and nikki within 5 hours. No complaints on their side.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

You mentioned your stellar reputation so I thought it was relevant. Really, don't waste your time and energy on me. You have much bigger problems you need to tend to. As for for people emailing you... Well, we've all seen how you behave when someone questions your integrity. I bet folks are falling all over themselves to take up a concern or a complaint with you.


----------



## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> You mentioned your stellar reputation so I thought it was relevant. Really, don't waste your time and energy on me. You have much bigger problems you need to tend to. As for for people emailing you... Well, we've all seen how you behave when someone questions your integrity. I bet folks are falling all over themselves to take up a concern or a complaint with you.


odd, when was i specifically talking about my reputation? I was only talking about fairness to the situation in post 118 and 119


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

Those Aura blues are NICE! Do you think they'll come down in price at all soon?


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> TLDR, but at least the question was answered. Maybe now we can start a thread about the substandard Taiwan Bees you've been shipping out so we can get that resolved.


Ouch bud.

Frank... you gotta put up some videos of the Auras and Black tigers! I'm having a really tough time deciding between the two


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

I can totally understand why you were upset at his accusations and I honestly don't blame you for being upset. Once he made or mentioned allegations of dyed shrimp there was really no way that this was not going to be a hostile situation. Making serious claims like that when hiding behind anonymity is not something that reflects well upon the person making those accusations.

My personal opinion is that you should have put more effort into assuring potential customers that the Aura Blue shrimp is legitimate and less effort into trying to prove Mr. Fusion wrong.

There is a ton of interest in blue shrimp and a ton of interest in shrimp which are new to the the North American market. Even with google translate and similar devises there are serious cultural differences that make it hard for Americans (or Canadians) to understand and navigate the Asian shrimp market which means that many of us do not understand or trust it.

I don't doubt that you did your due diligence when acquiring these shrimp and the fact that both Liam and Nikki are on board implies that they are also comfortable with your research into the shrimp but sharing some of that knowledge with the potential customers would have really been appreciated.

There will always be those who refuse to believe but it is not those people who need to be swayed. It is the people with open minds who need to be convinced and the way to do that is by providing information and evidence rather than by saying "take my word for it."



jiang604 said:


> so if people do get shrimps from them can question more about the integrity of the information. I was under fire just because of 1 post that said it didn't breed true as it was said by someone that passed onto another person but there was no evidence. Heres the logic in which I see it but of course you can doubt it.
> 
> nikki and liam gets questioned about whether aura blue breeds true. they tell their supplier (me) that someone was doubting the information that i had given them (so it may possibly be a rumor i was making up to sell aura blues). But I come out and stand behind that claim and go through all this crap and even have to go ask in a public forum for their experiences because 1 person says my claim isn't enough.
> 
> ...


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

MrFusion said:


> TLDR, but at least the question was answered. Maybe now we can start a thread about the substandard Taiwan Bees you've been shipping out so we can get that resolved.


That wasn't necessary.

There are legitimate questions that needed to be asked about Aura Blues but the personal grudge between the two of you is just overshadowing that.

Even someone who wasn't wound up already would be after you make statements like this.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

madness said:


> I can totally understand why you were upset at his accusations and I honestly don't blame you for being upset. Once he made or mentioned allegations of dyed shrimp there was really no way that this was not going to be a hostile situation. Making serious claims like that when hiding behind anonymity is not something that reflects well upon the person making those accusations.
> 
> My personal opinion is that you should have put more effort into assuring potential customers that the Aura Blue shrimp is legitimate and less effort into trying to prove Mr. Fusion wrong.
> 
> ...


Thankyou for explaining. And I have to be honest. I did take it more personally. But thats why I stopped replying for a day or 2 because I knew if I kept on going it would have just gotten ugly. But also I knew I wouldn't be able to prove my reason for why I had to keep going at it until evidence was provided and meeting all criteria's of mrfusion to make my reasoning that obvious in why I had to continue on the argument. There was a point where I wanted to say that I'm just as much at fault in continuing the argument as mr fusion. But as you can clearly see. I was also doing it also for clarification but in the end it just got to the point it wasn't fair that i get bashed while the other just stands and says what they want and is like words of wisdom with no experience. I only wanted a fair debate on the situation but when it came down to saying it was my fault. That just took me off on a whole different level. Which is why I sincerely apologize for that.

(also cranky from no sleep staying up all night studying for midterms but still not a legitimate reason)


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Internet arguments usually have no winners - only losers. 

I learned that the hard way many years ago. :frown:


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> TLDR, but at least the question was answered. Maybe now we can start a thread about the substandard Taiwan Bees you've been shipping out so we can get that resolved.



I am sorry, but what does this have to do with this thread? Have you purchased from Liam or myself? I have yet to receive any negative notes regarding my livestock and my sales. I do not appreciate you making comments such as these, jeopardizing my reputation as a reputable seller. I take GREAT care on all my customers making sure they get quality stock at reasonable prices. This was uncalled for and unwarranted. If a customer is unhappy, I readily give them replacements and other perks as well. 

Please refrain from stating comments such as these, as I have no personal issue with you.


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

So....

Who thinks those Aura Blues are awesome? I sure do! :hihi:

Nikki, will you be carrying these regularly? Inn the future I'd like to get some, but first I want to make sureI do good with the OEBT's I already have. Got one berried, so we shall see how that goes.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

zachary908 said:


> So....
> 
> Who thinks those Aura Blues are awesome? I sure do! :hihi:


I'm with you there. Those macro pics Silane posted are frigging sweet. They totally look like TTs but blue.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> I'm with you there. Those macro pics Silane posted are frigging sweet. They totally look like TTs but blue.


If I was confident in my ability to keep them alive and healthy I would already have TTs and Aura Blues would be next on my list.

Silane's pics do look almost identical to your TTs except for being blue.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Tts are a nice beginner shrimp. Very Hardy due to the wild genes no inbreeding. They are less sensitive than OEBT that I used to keep. Dang I want some Aura Blues now...need MOE tanks!


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Tts are a nice beginner shrimp. Very Hardy due to the wild genes no inbreeding. They are less sensitive than OEBT that I used to keep. Dang I want some Aura Blues now...need MOE tanks!


There is always a want for more tanks. lol. Space is the problem.


----------



## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Tts are a nice beginner shrimp. Very Hardy due to the wild genes no inbreeding. They are less sensitive than OEBT that I used to keep. Dang I want some Aura Blues now...need MOE tanks!


Less sensitive than OEBT's you say? You are tempting me, man! So far keeping OEBT's has been cake for me! *knock on driftwood* :hihi:


----------



## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

I will be happy to post when I get mine and they breed. It's sad to see this type of thread with the comments made.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

zachary908 said:


> Less sensitive than OEBT's you say? You are tempting me, man! So far keeping OEBT's has been cake for me! *knock on driftwood* :hihi:



Zach, you know we can work something out. You send me a couple of thumbnail frogs and a wingless fly culture with instructions....and I send you some TTs.:wink: My tank is almost ready.


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Zach, you know we can work something out. You send me a couple of thumbnail frogs and a wingless fly culture with instructions....and I send you some TTs.:wink: My tank is almost ready.


Haha, that would be totally awesome. Too bad we don't have any thumbnails at work right now.  The flies wouldn't be an issue though, ha!
I'm going to have to set up a new shrimp tank soon. So many different shrimp I want!


----------



## oliverpool (Jul 4, 2011)

madness said:


> If I was confident in my ability to keep them alive and healthy I would already have TTs and Aura Blues would be next on my list.
> 
> Silane's pics do look almost identical to your TTs except for being blue.


I have 5 for about 4 weeks now in my small 6G community tank and they are all still doing well. Its quite heavily planted and and I do EI dosing with CO2 and 50% weekly water changes etc... All 5 still surviving and I believe one may be berried.....So I would say they are pretty easy to care for!

A pretty crap picture from my iphone......

Oh. Shall I also say my LFS is GC/Midori and I do know that uncle very well. He is honest and a great keeper and always keen to impart his knowledge and that he still continues to sell Aura Blue is good enough for me. Will update if I do see baby shrimps in my tank or at GC.


----------



## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

oliverpool said:


> I have 5 for about 4 weeks now in my small 6G community tank and they are all still doing well. Its quite heavily planted and and I do EI dosing with CO2 and 50% weekly water changes etc... All 5 still surviving and I believe one may be berried.....So I would say they are pretty easy to care for!
> 
> A pretty crap picture from my iphone......
> 
> ...


 thats is a very nice blue crystal blue color =P


----------



## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

oliverpool said:


> I have 5 for about 4 weeks now in my small 6G community tank and they are all still doing well. Its quite heavily planted and and I do EI dosing with CO2 and 50% weekly water changes etc... All 5 still surviving and I believe one may be berried.....So I would say they are pretty easy to care for!
> 
> A pretty crap picture from my iphone......
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing.

I can't imagine being able to pick up new/rare shrimp like this at a local fish store. That would be very cool (until I went bankrupt from coming home with new shrimp and new tanks every week).


----------



## oliverpool (Jul 4, 2011)

madness said:


> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> I can't imagine being able to pick up new/rare shrimp like this at a local fish store. That would be very cool (until I went bankrupt from coming home with new shrimp and new tanks every week).


Actually when I see what you guys pay for fishes in the US, I am glad to be here in Singapore! I guess it helps when there are a number of fish farms here and Singapore is not that far from places like Taiwan/Japan/Hong Kong as well. Its no exaggeration to say we usually pay 3 times lessers for most of the rarer species of pleco/shrimps here compared to the prices we see in the states.. Oh well you win some and you lose some...


:icon_bigg


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

Have you purchased any shrimp from him or any of his distributors? If so what species and what was the problem with them?




MrFusion said:


> TLDR, but at least the question was answered. Maybe now we can start a thread about the substandard Taiwan Bees you've been shipping out so we can get that resolved.


----------



## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Tts are a nice beginner shrimp. Very Hardy due to the wild genes no inbreeding. They are less sensitive than OEBT that I used to keep. Dang I want some Aura Blues now...need MOE tanks!


TT's are definately easier than OEBT or black tigers. plus they breed true 100% of the time. So if aura's are that hardy, i'm in line for them with you.....


----------



## mbvenenga (May 23, 2011)

What are the water parameters for these? I am also very interested in some, but only have one tank. They would need to able to co-exist with yellow for me.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Auras are Cardinas, so you will have no issue with them commingling with yellows.

As for parameters, they would need the same as TTs, CRS, CBS, BTOE. Same stuff


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

oliverpool said:


> Oh. Shall I also say my LFS is GC/Midori and I do know that uncle very well. He is honest and a great keeper and always keen to impart his knowledge and that he still continues to sell Aura Blue is good enough for me. Will update if I do see baby shrimps in my tank or at GC.
> 
> View attachment 36252



It's good to hear feedback on those sellers. If they are reputable as you say, then is ads legitimacy to their early complaints. I hope the import quality of these shrimp have improved since they posted their concerns.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

dhavoc said:


> TT's are definately easier than OEBT or black tigers. plus they breed true 100% of the time. So if aura's are that hardy, i'm in line for them with you.....


If Auras are hardy and breed true, then why is there such a shortage of them? Could be the breeder is withholding stock to keep the prices high until hobbyist start breeding them in quantity.


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

Why did I just read all this? Blah! Nikki/Liam= confidence


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

:::raises her hand::: What are Tts?


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

Oh I'm glad my filter is working because this is a family site......TT's = Tangerine Tiger


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

Mr. Fusion you still haven't answered the question I asked.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

That's because he doesn't seem to be in the business of answering questions, yet. He's the asker!

(couldn't resist)


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## Jadenlea (Sep 15, 2011)

Wow. New here. I had no idea the world of shrimp had so much drama. I was just browsing the forum wondering if there was any shrimp that was blue that my GBR wouldn't eat... 45 minutes and 11 pages later..... 

I just got sucked in!

Those blue auras are beautiful though.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Jadenlea said:


> Wow. New here. I had no idea the world of shrimp had so much drama. I was just browsing the forum wondering if there was any shrimp that was blue that my GBR wouldn't eat... 45 minutes and 11 pages later.....
> 
> I just got sucked in!
> 
> Those blue auras are beautiful though.


Haha don't worry it honestly doesn't. This was a specific case where a professional was challenged by someone with no proof and he had to defend his honor. :/

PC, you crack me up! lol


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

I do what I can to help. lol


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

MrFusion said:


> GeToChKn - My Blue Bolts breed about 98% true when bred with each other. Pretty much anything will after a few generations. However, I crossed this particular female with some F1 hybrids in hopes of getting some fresh genetics for the colony.


from here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...-ever-seen-berried-blue-bolt.html#post1504540


So if anything will breed true according to you after a few generations, why could not accept that these would as well?


----------



## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

My blue bolts sure as heck don't. My blue bolt x hybrid gave me ONE panda. I think I got unlucky there, lol. Rest of em were hybrids. Considering we got em from the same source...


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Haha don't worry it honestly doesn't. This was a specific case where a professional was challenged by someone with no proof and he had to defend his honor. :/
> 
> PC, you crack me up! lol


 No proof? If I didn't have wholesale connections you wouldn't be asking me for orange eye black tigers. LOL




GeToChKn said:


> from here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...-ever-seen-berried-blue-bolt.html#post1504540
> 
> 
> So if anything will breed true according to you after a few generations, why could not accept that these would as well?


 Most do, but blue shrimp are a little trickier than most. Take blue tigers for example. Blue is highly unstable in most shrimp morphs. 





Senior Shrimpo said:


> My blue bolts sure as heck don't. My blue bolt x hybrid gave me ONE panda. I think I got unlucky there, lol. Rest of em were hybrids. Considering we got em from the same source...


 You crossed two different morphs and you're surprised that your offspring weren't consistent?


----------



## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

Mr. Fusion you going to answer the question I asked or are you just causing problems?


----------



## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> No proof? If I didn't have wholesale connections you wouldn't be asking me for orange eye black tigers. LOL


Well you never even replied... didn't think that was relevant but whatever. Point is, proof was withheld.





MrFusion said:


> You crossed two different morphs and you're surprised that your offspring weren't consistent?


Blehh, you know what I meant there. I only got girl blue bolts so I can't ever have BB x BB offspring for at least a few generations. I just assumed that hybrid x blue bolt would give, ya know, a few more TBs.


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

ZID ZULANDER said:


> Mr. Fusion you still haven't answered the question I asked.


I don't think he will. I think he's just trying to argue and make an a$$ of himself. To each their own


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

LOL...DJ2606, look what you started...lmao...you get the anwser you were seeking after 11pgs of post?


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

shrimpnmoss said:


> LOL...DJ2606, look what you started...lmao...you get the anwser you were seeking after 11pgs of post?



I know right, should learn to keep my hands of the keyboard :hihi::hihi:


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

Talk about a post being derailed lol. Now lets see if I can start an 11 page pointless argument. Hmmmmm who to argue with......


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Whatever, PC1, I heard from a reputable dealer that your manzanita doesn't breed true. Argue with THAT


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

LoL, I have no kids so I can't argue if my wood breeds true or not. See argument over.... Ah damn I was supposed to argue for 11 pages. I suck at arguing lol


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Whatever, PC1, I heard from a reputable dealer that your manzanita doesn't breed true. Argue with THAT


I knew something was wrong with my manzanita. IT turns colors when it is in water so it must be a babaulti species.


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

If your wood is turning colors you should see someone.

Maybe a wholesale dealer that has experience.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

lol


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

ZID ZULANDER said:


> Mr. Fusion you going to answer the question I asked or are you just causing problems?


 Actually, I'm ignoring you because your question is irrelevant and everyone already knows the answer. What exactly are your intentions if not to cause more drama?





Senior Shrimpo said:


> Well you never even replied... didn't think that was relevant but whatever. Point is, proof was withheld.
> Blehh, you know what I meant there. I only got girl blue bolts so I can't ever have BB x BB offspring for at least a few generations. I just assumed that hybrid x blue bolt would give, ya know, a few more TBs.


 It's relevant because you know I import my own shrimp and that my connections are legitimate. Otherwise you wouldn't bother to ask to buy through me. The fact that the same people who say I'm full of crap are also the same people who want to buy shrimp through me from my wholesalers is a bit ridiculous. Apparently you have all the proof you need to buy shrimp from my suppliers, but their suggestion that a new type of shrimp is having quality issues is absolutely outrageous. If I gave you people ideal water parameters for Taiwans directly from my suppliers you wouldn't question it. Pretty silly don't you think?

As for your BB... Even if you get a BB from crossing your BB with a hybrid you'll still have a long, long road to getting them to breed true. On average it can take 2 years to stabilize a pattern, but that's only if you are breeding the same morphs with each other and inbreeding.


----------



## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> It's relevant because you know I import my own shrimp and that my connections are legitimate. Otherwise you wouldn't bother to ask to buy through me. The fact that the same people who say I'm full of crap are also the same people who want to buy shrimp through me from my wholesalers is a bit ridiculous. Apparently you have all the proof you need to buy shrimp from my suppliers, but their suggestion that a new type of shrimp is having quality issues is absolutely outrageous. If I gave you people ideal water parameters for Taiwans directly from my suppliers you wouldn't question it. Pretty silly don't you think?
> 
> As for your BB... Even if you get a BB from crossing your BB with a hybrid you'll still have a long, long road to getting them to breed true. On average it can take 2 years to stabilize a pattern, but that's only if you are breeding the same morphs with each other and inbreeding.


Whatever bud. I'm not in the mood for a big rebuttal because it'd be such a waste of time. I'm not on trial here. But yeah I'd question your "perfect TB parameters", I'm questioning a lot of your motives right now.

PC, your wood is definitely wild caught. :hihi:


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

Considering this thread has already gone off course and I'm the OP.

hey PC1, I was wondering if you had driftwood I could use to make a weeping willow tree in a 20g long. I will be using HC to attach on the limbs, you have anything that fits this profile?


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

dj2606 said:


> Considering this thread has already gone off course and I'm the OP.
> 
> hey PC1, I was wondering if you had driftwood I could use to make a weeping willow tree in a 20g long. I will be using HC to attach on the limbs, you have anything that fits this profile?


LOL, Take a look at my thread I think there is a couple that might work for you.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Whatever bud. I'm not in the mood for a big rebuttal because it'd be such a waste of time. I'm not on trial here. But yeah I'd question your "perfect TB parameters", I'm questioning a lot of your motives right now.
> 
> PC, your wood is definitely wild caught. :hihi:


 What rebuttal is there to make? You trust my sources enough to buy from them, but you don't trust their past experiences. It wouldn't be the first time that a new shrimp was released before it was ready or misrepresented entirely. At any rate, I'm not accusing you of anything. I just think it's silly. As for my motives... what motives do you think I have? Oh and the parameter comment was just an example of a scenario. You know how hyped up people get about that.


----------



## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> What rebuttal is there to make? You trust my sources enough to buy from them, but you don't trust their past experiences. It wouldn't be the first time that a new shrimp was released before it was ready or misrepresented entirely. At any rate, I'm not accusing you of anything. I just think it's silly. As for my motives... what motives do you think I have? Oh and the parameter comment was just an example of a scenario. You know how hyped up people get about that.


Haha okay okay. I know, water parameters are a drag, my CRS were in TDS of like 400 for at least a week and none of the preggos dropped their eggs, no loss of babies etc. I fixed it when I saw it and they're all fine, lol. I almost never measure anything. 

As I go off on a totally different tangent... I dunno it just surprises me that a big name guy like your supp. would challenge a different big name supp. like that when there's so much proof that auras breed true. One thing all this has been good for is that it definitely illustrates 100% that auras breed true. Silane confirmed it and everything.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I think he's a guerilla marketing genius, he's just trying to drive up sales of aura blues, lol


----------



## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Haha okay okay. I know, water parameters are a drag, my CRS were in TDS of like 400 for at least a week and none of the preggos dropped their eggs, no loss of babies etc. I fixed it when I saw it and they're all fine, lol. I almost never measure anything.
> 
> As I go off on a totally different tangent... I dunno it just surprises me that a big name guy like your supp. would challenge a different big name supp. like that when there's so much proof that auras breed true. One thing all this has been good for is that it definitely illustrates 100% that auras breed true. Silane confirmed it and everything.


 Personally, I like to adjust my water params with pixie dust and tears from angels, but that's just me. ~

To be honest, I heard it from several sources. Not just one. I touched base with all of them again on the matter, but none have ordered any recently so I don't have any news from them on that front. I'm actually happy that Silane has some and that they're breeding true for him. I just hope we get that same level of quality here in the states. Japan and other parts of Asia usually get the really good stuff, but those guys are willing to pay the price. Whatever the case, I think the shrimp are gorgeous and might order some for myself when they become available through my wholesalers again.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> I think he's a guerilla marketing genius, he's just trying to drive up sales of aura blues, lol


 LOL I bet they get a heck of a lot more sales now that Silane has said they breed true. Someone had to bring up the question and I don't mind taking the heat for definitive answers. Everyone wins.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> I touched base with all of them again on the matter, but none have ordered any recently so I don't have any news from them on that front.


What about in respect to their claim? I'm curious to know what they have to say about that.


----------



## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> What about in respect to their claim? I'm curious to know what they have to say about that.


I'll tell you what. Tell everyone here how much you pay per shrimp for your "Aura Blues" (which I know) and I'll tell you who my sources are. LOL I have the price list right here in front of me.

P.S. It's a FuShrimp price sheet just to clarify.....


----------



## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> I'll tell you what. Tell everyone here how much you pay per shrimp for your "Aura Blues" (which I know) and I'll tell you who my sources are. LOL I have the price list right here in front of me.


Well lets see first. I have never ordered from fu shrimp directly. And you can definitely quote me on this that I have never ordered from fu directly. It was ORIGINALLY from fu and as stated previously. I have bred these myself to ENSURE that they even bred true before even MAKING the claim and putting my name under the name Aura blue why would I slap my name on something just to have people like you criticize me? Seriously, we've gone over this. You implied anything i posted would be false and its just a sales pitch. (although thats totally unfair, but whatever, i sucked it up and went with it and so i posted on SN and you got an answer. If you have so much doubts about silanes answer why don't you just tell him that you doubt his integrity as well and see what other peoples experiences are) 

and secondly. Just look at the last 2-3 pages of this thread. Everything speaks for itself. and I've never kept it a "secret" in where you can get it. Why ask me for prices? i have told everyone publicly its from Fu. What? can't type and you just need to try and make everything so hard to get because in the end you still won't say it? I mean you've already been cornered where its clear on my post 118 and 119. I mean you can't even say anything nor does your sources even have the integrity to come out and make that claim other than you stating for them "we aren't or haven't ordered since" 

So why don't you just step up and say your lying and your sorry because your not even standing on the side of your "reputable" supplier which is very odd. considering that all it took was 1 person on SN to answer and your all believing. Or, you can simply say that your supplier isn't answering / or you haven't asked and go do it. I don't think your in the position to be asking me for anymore requests. Because your just digging your own grave and making yourself look even more of an ass.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> Well lets see first. I have never ordered from fu shrimp directly. And you can definitely quote me on this that I have never ordered from fu directly. It was ORIGINALLY from fu and as stated previously. I have bred these myself to ENSURE that they even bred true before even MAKING the claim and putting my name under the name Aura blue why would I slap my name on something just to have people like you criticize me? Seriously, we've gone over this. You implied anything i posted would be false and its just a sales pitch. (although thats totally unfair, but whatever, i sucked it up and went with it and so i posted on SN and you got an answer. If you have so much doubts about silanes answer why don't you just tell him that you doubt his integrity as well and see what other peoples experiences are)
> 
> and secondly. Just look at the last 2-3 pages of this thread. Everything speaks for itself. and I've never kept it a "secret" in where you can get it. Why ask me for prices? i have told everyone publicly its from Fu. What? can't type and you just need to try and make everything so hard to get because in the end you still won't say it? I mean you've already been cornered where its clear on my post 118 and 119. I mean you can't even say anything nor does your sources even have the integrity to come out and make that claim other than you stating for them "we aren't or haven't ordered since"
> 
> So why don't you just step up and say your lying and your sorry because your not even standing on the side of your "reputable" supplier which is very odd. considering that all it took was 1 person on SN to answer and your all believing. Or, you can simply say that your supplier isn't answering / or you haven't asked and go do it. I don't think your in the position to be asking me for anymore requests. Because your just digging your own grave and making yourself look even more of an ass.



Now hold on a second Frank. Did you or did you not tell me directly in a PM that you've personally looked over FuShrimp's records? Did you or did you not tell everyone that the breeder gave you the privilege of renaming these shrimp? Because according to FuShrimp... they're still called Fire Blue shrimp and there is no difference. That's straight from the horse's mouth and clearly listed on their price sheet. Now you're saying that you don't even order from Fu directly? Ouch.

I've made it very clear why I won't give you the names of my wholesalers. I don't need some hotshot who shoots off at the mouth pestering my connections and ruining relationships that I've worked hard to earn and maintain. Not to mention the amount of money I've spent building those relationships. 

I'll tell you what. Why don't you tell me who you actually order from so I can compare those prices too. Certainly you won't hesitate to share YOUR wholesale connection since it's no big deal, right?


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

YAAAAWWWNNNN really guys at this point all that can be said has been and it's just a argument repeating itself. Let it be, neither of you are going to change your opinion anyways. At this point I could see this as a never ending battle on sheer pride alone. Those who believe them to breed true will be the guinea pigs for the non believers and purchase them first. ( like me  )


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> Now hold on a second Frank. Did you or did you not tell me directly in a PM that you've personally looked over FuShrimp's records? Did you or did you not tell everyone that the breeder gave you the privilege of renaming these shrimp? Because according to FuShrimp... they're still called Fire Blue shrimp and there is no difference. That's straight from the horse's mouth and clearly listed on their price sheet. Now you're saying that you don't even order from Fu directly? Ouch.


Absolutely I definitely did get the privilege to rename fire blue to aura blue. ( http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/7123-It-s-official!-Aura-Blue-Shrimp?highlight= )And yes. I have and I do have the ability to overlook the records. give me any companies name and I can tell you whether they have bought from fu or not. Well lets see.... name 1 company that when it retails is called fire blue after the date I had posted the official name. Not only that I offered to get you to contact your suppliers and ask them to contact fu with my name as a header and tell them the situation where it doesn't breed true and provide evidence to fu and I vouched to help get your suppliers a refund. Ask Liam about his past experience with contacting fu and who knew about it next day lol.



MrFusion said:


> I've made it very clear why I won't give you the names of my wholesalers. I don't need some hotshot who shoots off at the mouth pestering my connections and ruining relationships that I've worked hard to earn and maintain. Not to mention the amount of money I've spent building those relationships.


ummm ok? so other than Michael Nadal did you purchase OE black tigers and taiwan bees and such before him? just curious. Putting a timeline together just for you.



MrFusion said:


> I'll tell you what. Why don't you tell me who you actually order from so I can compare those prices too. Certainly you won't hesitate to share YOUR wholesale connection since it's no big deal, right?


no big deal of course. Aaron Li of Crimson Taiwan and I both got at the same time from a wholsaling company named Stone that got from fu. I was skeptical of it breeding true back then so I got it and didn't mind paying the hell of a high prices back then for a shrimp that claimed to breed true so I didn't bother contacting fu shrimp. After from experience it did breed true I then contacted fu and met with someone at fu (that person wishes to remain anonymous) and I got more insight into how aura blue came to be and thats my connection with Fu and because of my interest thats what sparks a new relationship between me and Fu Shrimp. 

And to further backup my claim of knowing owner of crimson taiwan. Why would someone carry ebiken (my brand) if its new and being such high profile as crimson is take on the risk of carrying my products. go figure =P http://crimsontw.blog138.fc2.com/ 4th picture from the top. 

And heres the full picture of that part of the stand:










so once again, you've requested something and delivered. Yet you still can't deliver. I think we're done here because you just want to have the last post yet you can't prove anything for yourself. PC1 is right. And me continuing this would just degrade myself. So if you keep wanting me to prove something well good luck I think I speak for everyone (Except you) that I've proven enough to show who I am. But I can't say the same for you.


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

Side bar Frank.... are those shrimp playing cards? I only read english but I know the familiar shape of a deck of cards


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

Fusion I think you should go some place else to cause trouble. I don't think you have posted one thing that wasn't insulting or calling someone out about stuff that you can't or won't back up.


Why don't you pony up some information for a change?


[/B][/B][/B]


MrFusion said:


> Now hold on a second Frank. Did you or did you not tell me directly in a PM that you've personally looked over FuShrimp's records? Did you or did you not tell everyone that the breeder gave you the privilege of renaming these shrimp? Because according to FuShrimp... they're still called Fire Blue shrimp and there is no difference. That's straight from the horse's mouth and clearly listed on their price sheet. Now you're saying that you don't even order from Fu directly? Ouch.
> 
> I've made it very clear why I won't give you the names of my wholesalers. I don't need some hotshot who shoots off at the mouth pestering my connections and ruining relationships that I've worked hard to earn and maintain. Not to mention the amount of money I've spent building those relationships.
> 
> I'll tell you what. Why don't you tell me who you actually order from so I can compare those prices too. Certainly you won't hesitate to share YOUR wholesale connection since it's no big deal, right?


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

PC1 said:


> Side bar Frank.... are those shrimp playing cards? I only read english but I know the familiar shape of a deck of cards


i have NO idea what its actually for when i opened it. it was just a blank book.... so I'm guessing where shrimp keepers take notes of their findings? lol want one? I'm going to go taiwan again next month to see the progress of the new pure line that a friend of me and aaron's working on.


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

PC1 said:


> Side bar Frank.... are those shrimp playing cards? I only read english but I know the familiar shape of a deck of cards


I want the stuffed animals. :hihi: That will take shrimp keeping to a whole new level!


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

ZID ZULANDER said:


> Why don't you pony up some information for a change?
> 
> 
> 
> > I really, really, really don't think that is necessary. I think this one has gone on enough.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

zachary908 said:


> I want the stuffed animals. :hihi: That will take shrimp keeping to a whole new level!


no man! the crimson model is the best! lol










I love mine I wanted to put it in water and hot glue some food to the swimmerretes and call it "GIVING BIRTH"


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

zachary908 said:


> I want the stuffed animals. :hihi: That will take shrimp keeping to a whole new level!


no doubt, my girlfriend would be ecstatic to be surprised with a bk panda


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> no man! the crimson model is the best! lol
> 
> 
> I love mine I wanted to put it in water and hot glue some food to the swimmerretes and call it "GIVING BIRTH"


*gasp* That thing is awesome, I want one! Jiang, I think you should start a FS thread for these marvelous products! At the very least a photo thread showing off some of it! :hihi:


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

zachary908 said:


> *gasp* That thing is awesome, I want one! Jiang, I think you should start a FS thread for these marvelous products! At the very least a photo thread showing off some of it! :hihi:


lol i would but can't if you go on crimson site from japan look at the prices and ALWAYS out of stock. ask liam =) he can bring some other types better priced.


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

jiang604 said:


> i have NO idea what its actually for when i opened it. it was just a blank book.... so I'm guessing where shrimp keepers take notes of their findings? lol want one? I'm going to go taiwan again next month to see the progress of the new pure line that a friend of me and aaron's working on.


DANG! I was hoping it was cards that would be cool.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

NO!!! my crimson CBS model is _MINE_!!! no sale!


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Aqua Inspirations has these ones around me.

http://www.aquainspiration.com/productlist.asp?PNAME=ML

I have to go there and get another bag of Netlea of Amazonia. No I don't, no more tanks. Yes I do. No I don't.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

PC1 said:


> DANG! I was hoping it was cards that would be cool.


lol i can go look when i'm there =P and Liam or nikki can send to you or when I go states or visit liam I can ship it to you IF there is lol. I'll PM you when i'm there.


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

Maybe you have missed the posts that Fusion has been posting. It is totally necessary. 

I asked a question with no response. If you are going to post in a forum and not back it up than its just words and no one should listen to you.


Back up your statements or don't say anything.



dj2606 said:


> ZID ZULANDER said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you pony up some information for a change?
> ...


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

mordalphus said:


> NO!!! my crimson CBS model is _MINE_!!! no sale!


noooooo lol watch me get the whole set when i come back and have it all signed muahahahaha! I should talk to Ken and ask him to make one for his new company. His drawings are beautiful and cute =)


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

you do that and I'll just take em all and auction em off


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> Absolutely I definitely did get the privilege to rename fire blue to aura blue. ( http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/7123-It-s-official!-Aura-Blue-Shrimp?highlight= )And yes. I have and I do have the ability to overlook the records. give me any companies name and I can tell you whether they have bought from fu or not.


 Why would any business who doesn't do direct business with you ever allow you to look over their records? Actually, why would any business that DOES do business with you directly ever allow you to look over their records? LOL Ask any business man to look over their records and you'll get laughed at. LOL



jiang604 said:


> Well lets see.... name 1 company that when it retails is called fire blue after the date I had posted the official name.


 Fu Shrimp. :iamwithst



jiang604 said:


> Not only that I offered to get you to contact your suppliers and ask them to contact fu with my name as a header and tell them the situation where it doesn't breed true and provide evidence to fu and I vouched to help get your suppliers a refund. Ask Liam about his past experience with contacting fu and who knew about it next day lol.


 Why would I ask my wholesalers to do something I can do myself? Furthermore, why would my wholesalers need assistance from you to get a refund? You don't even do business directly with Fu. Again, the suggestion is laughable. LOL




jiang604 said:


> ummm ok? so other than Michael Nadal did you purchase OE black tigers and taiwan bees and such before him? just curious. Putting a timeline together just for you.


 Still not telling. LOL Clearly if I can get a price sheet from FuShrimp then I can get shrimp from a lot of different sources. lol




jiang604 said:


> no big deal of course. Aaron Li of Crimson Taiwan and I both got at the same time from a wholsaling company named Stone that got from fu.


 Stone? Going to need a little bit more than that, chief....




jiang604 said:


> I was skeptical of it breeding true back then so I got it and didn't mind paying the hell of a high prices back then for a shrimp that claimed to breed true so I didn't bother contacting fu shrimp. After from experience it did breed true I then contacted fu and met with someone at fu (that person wishes to remain anonymous) and I got more insight into how aura blue came to be and thats my connection with Fu and because of my interest thats what sparks a new relationship between me and Fu Shrimp.


 So let me get this straight.... You were a skeptic too? Okay... AND one of your sources doesn't with to be mentioned? 

Congrats, you've just justified my skepticism and not disclosing my sources...



jiang604 said:


> And to further backup my claim of knowing owner of crimson taiwan. Why would someone carry ebiken (my brand) if its new and being such high profile as crimson is take on the risk of carrying my products. go figure =P http://crimsontw.blog138.fc2.com/ 4th picture from the top.
> 
> And heres the full picture of that part of the stand:


 Uh, because they wholesale and resell. There's nothing special or unique here. If your product sells he will carry it. If not, he'll stop. This doesn't make you a savior of humanity, it's simple business and common sense. So, how were sales? lol




jiang604 said:


> so once again, you've requested something and delivered. Yet you still can't deliver. I think we're done here because you just want to have the last post yet you can't prove anything for yourself. PC1 is right. And me continuing this would just degrade myself. So if you keep wanting me to prove something well good luck I think I speak for everyone (Except you) that I've proven enough to show who I am. But I can't say the same for you.


 Actually, you degraded yourself with your very first childish response and it's been down hill since, but you'll just have to take my word for it. By all means, take the last post and fill it with crying and foot stomping. At the end of the day, it doesn't effect me. I'm not in the hobby to make money and I'm not in the hobby to give credit or discredit. I'm simply in it for the shrimp and you simply have business interests to protect. 

P.S. There's no chance of you looking through my business records. lol That still cracks me up. lol


----------



## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

MrFusion said:


> Why would any business who doesn't do direct business with you ever allow you to look over their records? Actually, why would any business that DOES do business with you directly ever allow you to look over their records? LOL Ask any business man to look over their records and you'll get laughed at. LOL


lol easy because you don't have that tight of a connection with any of them and they don't see you as being trustworthy nor a friend. Maybe thats why you got so many people change their opinions about you so fast lol.




MrFusion said:


> Fu Shrimp. :iamwithst


LOL you just proved my point you can't read. I said retail.





MrFusion said:


> Why would I ask my wholesalers to do something I can do myself? Furthermore, why would my wholesalers need assistance from you to get a refund? You don't even do business directly with Fu. Again, the suggestion is laughable. LOL


well just proves even more to me you really are lying because which running company doesn't want compensation for something that they are saying to be misclassfied/ advertised.




MrFusion said:


> So let me get this straight.... You were a skeptic too? Okay... AND one of your sources doesn't with to be mentioned?
> 
> Congrats, you've just justified my skepticism and not disclosing my sources...


wow you REALLY can't read. LOL


anyways say what you want. You've damaged yourself enough lol.


----------



## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

last thing i had to add. no one is in support of you mr.fusion right after post 118 and 119 because another perspective from a birds eye view was revealed and people understood the situation where you can't support anything. It's ok. Anyways have a nice day =) end of my side of the conversation lol. Anyone have any questions can PM me.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> lol easy because you don't have that tight of a connection with any of them and they don't see you as being trustworthy nor a friend. Maybe thats why you got so many people change their opinions about you so fast lol.


 Why would someone allow someone who doesn't even buy from them directly allow you to look through their records? You don't even buy from them directly. It makes no sense. What's the motive? Friendship? LOL Sorry, but I don't even let my best friends read through my business records. There's no reason to let them. I'm curious, how did you even go about asking to read through business records? Can I read through yours? LOL



jiang604 said:


> LOL you just proved my point you can't read. I said retail.


 If the breeder gave you express permission to rename them, then why wouldn't they be named the same thing on their price sheet? Again, it doesn't make sense. All you're trying to do is manipulate your roll of importance within the market by driving up the demand for a shrimp that originally sells for $*.** a piece. Of course everyone else will follow along because they want to charge a ridiculous premium as well. 



jiang604 said:


> well just proves even more to me you really are lying because which running company doesn't want compensation for something that they are saying to be misclassfied/ advertised.


 Who said they didn't ask for compensation? Did I ever say they didn't? No. Do you always just fill in the blanks with your imagination?




jiang604 said:


> wow you REALLY can't read. LOL


 Did you or did you not say that you were originally skeptical of the breeders claims? Did you or did you not say you had a source who wished to not be named? Looks like I can read just fine.



jiang604 said:


> anyways say what you want. You've damaged yourself enough lol.


 



jiang604 said:


> last thing i had to add. no one is in support of you mr.fusion right after post 118 and 119 because another perspective from a birds eye view was revealed and people understood the situation where you can't support anything. It's ok. Anyways have a nice day =) end of my side of the conversation lol. Anyone have any questions can PM me.


 It's unfortunate that you can't read my PMs and emails. The only reason people who don't buy into your b.s. don't post is because you'll blacklist them from shrimp. We'll see how well you hold up over time as other resellers and retailers pop up. Tell me, how many of the people backing you up in this thread were high dollar buyers? Not many...  Anyway, you have a good one too and you're more than welcome to PM me as well.


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## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

This thread is utterly shameless. At this point, I don't think a single other member of TPT is impressed by either one of you or your "internet fight". Absolute fail on any level. If you don't picture yourself bragging about this over Christmas dinner with loved ones this December, maybe just take a deep breath, drop your weapons, and slowly walk away from the table? There are no winners as you are both well behind at this point. Fold and count losses.

If it was really so important that you two indulge yourselves in this way, you could have easily done it over PM rather than turning TPT into the Maury Povich of the aqua world.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

In all fairness, I did try to keep things on the level. After a barrage of personal attacks I thought it was only fair to fight back and discredit a loudmouth. I feel I accomplished that goal. My apologies to anyone who feels they wasted any time. Personally, I think some true colors were shown in this thread to the advantage of everyone. Love me or hate me at least a few good answers were given about the shrimp. They're buried, but if you put your waders on you should be able to get through most of the B.S. to find the valuable information. Peace to all.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> After a barrage of personal attacks I thought it was only fair to fight back and discredit a loudmouth.


But you are still continuing to personally attack even in your last comment, and you are ostracizing yourself with A LOT of people in this thread. 


To repeat the answers that some are looking for. There is a link in the thread posted by Silane giving personal experience that Aura Blues breed true. They are Cardinas, and have the potential of interbreeding with CRS/CBS/Tigers. Although there are no known cases (yet), there is the chance there can be.
http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/4947-What-blue-shrimp-is-this-Aura-Blue-Shrimp/page3

Auras were known as fire blues before the common name was renamed by Jiang604, and were thought to be Neos, but later they were deemed Cardinas. The true breeding kind are limited for various reasons, of which, I am not 100% sure. 

I hope that sums up everything for everyone.


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

Someone please pay my medical bill for electrocuting my brain with all this confusion and questioning and all. lol.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

I actually learn a thing or two on this debate. A little less name calling would be nice. I didn't think it was wasted time.


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## ohbaby714 (Feb 23, 2011)

ShortFin said:


> I actually learn a thing or two on this debate. A little less name calling would be nice. I didn't think it was wasted time.


Agree. For whatever it worth, it does spark up my interest on the blue aura shrimp.

I do wish someone will be a bigger person and dropped. Focus on the shrimps instead of the personal stuffs.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

I guess, but it seemed fair since Frank tried to take the "fight" into other threads. 


Back on topic. Calling them "Aura Blues" is incorrect as this is not reflected on FuShrimp's price sheet. They're "Fire Blues" as they always have been. A fancy new name does not dictate an outrageous price. Do you know how much FuShrimp is selling FIRE BLUE for, Nikki? You're selling them for how much and I'm the jerk?? 





msnikkistar said:


> But you are still continuing to personally attack even in your last comment, and you are ostracizing yourself with A LOT of people in this thread.
> 
> 
> To repeat the answers that some are looking for. There is a link in the thread posted by Silane giving personal experience that Aura Blues breed true. They are Cardinas, and have the potential of interbreeding with CRS/CBS/Tigers. Although there are no known cases (yet), there is the chance there can be.
> ...


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## ramawo (Jun 12, 2008)

This thread seems out of control !!


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

ramawo said:


> This thread seems out of control !!


 True. If I have "ostracized" myself I'll see what I can do about importing a box of FIRE BLUES and sell them at cost.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

I personally always enjoy a heated debate. Just like the threads where ADG and Tom Barr arguing over effectiveness of ADA Powersand. I'll have to agree with ShortFin, I did learn a few things in this thread. With a nice heated debate new information gets out and different points of view are presented. Without these "discussions" we're back to reading threads like. What fish can be kept with shrimps?

Do both parties look bad arguing with each other? Most likely. Ultimate winners here is the consumer. Us. I'm glad the mods didn't lock this up and allowed the discussion to play out.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm with Howard. I think the mods were well aware and didn't lock the thread because the outcome was too important for the customers to not know if they were to have locked it. Very informative!


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> Do you know how much FuShrimp is selling FIRE BLUE for, Nikki? You're selling them for how much and I'm the jerk??


Actually, I don't know Fu's prices as I do not buy from them and do not have the capacity to do so in the first place. 

I can no where meet their 500-1000 minimum, and I don't have the funds to even spend the $1000 to ship 1 box that they charge. So if you can afford the minimums and the shipping cost, go for it. If you can bring them cheaper to the consumer, by all means do so. Spreading the love of shrimp in the US will always be my first goal. Just remember, you will need a custom's bond since it will be well over $2000, and customs can be a pain. 

I never said you were a jerk, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I don't get personal with you, so refrain from doing so with me. I am just stating that two wrongs do not make a right, whether Frank "attacked you" or not is moot at this point to me. You're interaction with individuals such as myself, Zid Zulander, and Shrimpo does not reflect on you in a good light. Hence the comment of you ostracizing yourself. To me some of the comments you made, not dealing with Frank, are juvenile to say the least, and I would expect you to respond in a more professional way. 

Call them Fire Blues, Aura blues, Blue Bloobs, whatever you want to call them. It is not the point to me to be honest.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

youjettisonme said:


> This thread is utterly shameless. At this point, I don't think a single other member of TPT is impressed by either one of you or your "internet fight". Absolute fail on any level. If you don't picture yourself bragging about this over Christmas dinner with loved ones this December, maybe just take a deep breath, drop your weapons, and slowly walk away from the table? There are no winners as you are both well behind at this point. Fold and count losses.
> 
> If it was really so important that you two indulge yourselves in this way, you could have easily done it over PM rather than turning TPT into the Maury Povich of the aqua world.


sorry you and all other members had to be bystanders of this debate but.....




MrFusion said:


> In all fairness, I did try to keep things on the level. After a barrage of personal attacks I thought it was only fair to fight back and discredit a loudmouth. I feel I accomplished that goal. My apologies to anyone who feels they wasted any time. Personally, I think some true colors were shown in this thread to the advantage of everyone. Love me or hate me at least a few good answers were given about the shrimp. They're buried, but if you put your waders on you should be able to get through most of the B.S. to find the valuable information. Peace to all.


In all fairness… nice… just a relap. First unnecessary input from mrfusion: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1552071-post10.html
Has nothing to do with thread. No idea what color has to do with crossing anyways….
Then reason why I had to come in: 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1556457-post118.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1556460-post119.html

then Adam’s only answer he can come up with: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1556465-post120.html
whatever lol. Good day =)


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

I'm also glad the mods haven't lock this up and allow the debate to go on.

Here are the nuts & bolts of it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1) Fire Blue went on sale, but people find out they didn't breed true. They were dyed.
2) Fu Shrimps discover a blue shrimp.
3) They let Frank have the honor of naming it.
4) They found out it was Caridina and might interbreed with Crystal and Tigers.
5) Fu Shrimps still sells them as Fire Blue. The retail side changes the name to Aura Blue.
6) Mr.Fusion's source still doesn't have confidence in carrying them and Mr.Fusion warns members on TPT that it might be dyed.
7) Frank conducted his own breeding and it breeds true.
8) Mr.Fusion believes Silane that it breeds true, but will go with what his source says.

In the end it's a matter of trusting your source on either you have a true shrimp or a dyed one.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

A bit of revision in timeline
1)Fire blue went on sale many years ago but back then Japan wasn't the interested in the "blue color" yet retail prices were still very high as fu invested in alot of their tanks in breeding fire blue and the color wasn't that intense before. More like a sky blue color.

2)It originated from Fu and there is no other source but fu since 1)

7)Me and my friend bought from a secondary source (Stone) who got it from Fu shrimp because back then when it was STILL called fire blue we were skeptical of whether it did breed true.

3/4) I conducted my own breeding regime and confirmed over 6 generations that it does infact breed true and thats when I was interested in the origination and how aura blue (back then fire blue) had came to be because given the name even I thought it was a neocaridina species hence the name of fire blue versus fire red. It wasn't an overnight thing that I got to rename it. I built my friendship up with fu and was given the honor of renaming it to avoid the confusion of it being a neo.

5) Fu Shrimps still sells them as Fire Blue. The retail side changes the name to Aura Blue.( <- this i don't know but if it were true why does singapore retail them as Aura blue using exact same photos from the previously stated fire blue back in 2010? and Japan's translation of aura blue is azura and same with HK)

6) mr.fusion says his sources has bought once and claims they don't breed true and has never bought again

8) Mr.Fusion believes Silane that it breeds true, but will go with what his source says.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

jiang604 said:


> 5) Fu Shrimps still sells them as Fire Blue. The retail side changes the name to Aura Blue.( <- this i don't know but if it were true why does singapore retail them as Aura blue using exact same photos from the previously stated fire blue back in 2010? and Japan's translation of aura blue is azura and same with HK)


I don't know Frank. It's was based on what you guys were posting.

Since you're paying a lot of attention to this thread, I would like to ask you an OT question. How difficult is it to keep and breed JPRL compare to Taiwan bee?


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Here's an example I got from Frank when I asked him about getting some myself.

A MINIMUM sized tank I would need for JPRL would be a 40 gallon. The bigger the better because their sensitivity is like 5 times worse then BKK.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

msnikkistar said:


> Here's an example I got from Frank when I asked him about getting some myself.
> 
> A MINIMUM sized tank I would need for JPRL would be a 40 gallon. The bigger the better because their sensitivity is like 5 times worse then BKK.


 That doesn't sound very good for me.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

:icon_eek: 40g?!?! I guess I'll stick with regular CRS crowns and K14s.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

I think the bigger tank size is for more stable parms. 15-20gal can swing a lot more than a 40gal in terms of TDS, gH, etc.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

Frank stats that he's not selling his "Aura Blue" in order to breed "specific traits". (Top of page 5)

What traits? Clearly you saw room for improvement just like my wholesalers did.

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/crus...s-official-aura-blue-shrimp-13535/index5.html



jiang604 said:


> 7)Me and my friend bought from a secondary source (Stone) who got it from Fu shrimp because back then when it was STILL called fire blue we were skeptical of whether it did breed true.


 As I pointed out before... even you were a skeptic. I see no harm in anyone else being a skeptic as well. Is the friend you referenced the friend who wants to remain anonymous? Again, not everyone with an opinion wants to be revealed. You aren't that much different from me.



jiang604 said:


> 8) Mr.Fusion believes Silane that it breeds true, but will go with what his source says.


 Not true. I believe Silane. My wholesalers haven't purchased the shrimp since they stopped carrying them due to quality issues. I'm perfectly willing to accept new information from reliable sources. I certainly trust Silane, but given your actions and inconsistencies I have no trust in you. 



jiang604 said:


> 3/4) I conducted my own breeding regime and confirmed over 6 generations that it does infact breed true and thats when I was interested in the origination and how aura blue (back then fire blue) had came to be because given the name even I thought it was a neocaridina species hence the name of fire blue versus fire red. It wasn't an overnight thing that I got to rename it. I built my friendship up with fu and was given the honor of renaming it to avoid the confusion of it being a neo.


 6 generations? I haven't seen any evidence of you working with these shrimp prior to 2011. It would be impossible to breed 6 generations within that time frame. If anyone can find dated documents that state otherwise, then I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any evidence of such thus far. 


Ultimately, skepticism is a good thing. At least on the consumer end of things. Anyone in or around the wholesale livestock business knows this. Especially with new color strains. When retailers bash a skeptic it only creates more skeptics.


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## jiang604 (Dec 28, 2009)

ShortFin said:


> I don't know Frank. It's was based on what you guys were posting.
> 
> Since you're paying a lot of attention to this thread, I would like to ask you an OT question. How difficult is it to keep and breed JPRL compare to Taiwan bee?


I've pm'd you just so not to mess this thread any further.



As for fusion, I'm not even going to bother reading what you said. Not worth my time. and you still just don't get it. All I have to say is this:

First unnecessary input from mrfusion: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1552071-post10.html
Has nothing to do with thread. No idea what color has to do with crossing anyways….
Then reason why I had to come in: 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1556457-post118.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1556460-post119.html

then Adam’s only answer he can come up with: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1556465-post120.html
whatever lol. Good day =)


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> Japan and other parts of Asia usually get the really good stuff, but those guys are willing to pay the price.





MrFusion said:


> Back on topic. Calling them "Aura Blues" is incorrect as this is not reflected on FuShrimp's price sheet. They're "Fire Blues" as they always have been. A fancy new name does not dictate an outrageous price. Do you know how much FuShrimp is selling FIRE BLUE for, Nikki? You're selling them for how much and I'm the jerk??


Bud, calm down a second. You were just whining about how Asia gets all the good shrimp because they pay premiums for them, and now we're given that opportunity and you flip because they're soooo expensive. Coming from a guy who purchased hordes of the most expensive shrimp on the market I find that rich.

And yep, it's definitely true that auras are a lot cheaper in other countries. But not in the states where there's no sources for them. Our shrimpconomy is a lot different than other nations' shrimpconomies (excuse my coining of a term).

I really wanted PRL or k14s but I'm sticking with my regular old CRS for now. Both are so hard to find in the states and sure they look really nice that's true. But I dunno I like regular crowns so I've been working on getting a bunch of them.

Right now, my goal is launch my super tank, a 30 gallon divided, which is gonna be awesome. Overfiltered as all get out and I'm doing everything right with this tank... I'm moving my CRS to one side and aura blues to the other. Woo! And I just realized, it'll be red white and blue... go patriotism! :tongue:


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

jiang604 said:


> 8) Mr.Fusion believes Silane that it breeds true, but will go with what his source says.


Adam, I wrote that line instead of Frank.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

jiang604 said:


> I've pm'd you just so not to mess this thread any further.


 Actually, his question is legitimate. According to Nikki you said these shrimp are many times more sensitive than BKK. If that is the case and you suffer heavier losses when importing them, then that does justify a higher price. However, this also supports my wholesalers who said the quality is poor. No wonder you want him to PM you.



jiang604 said:


> As for fusion, I'm not even going to bother reading what you said. Not worth my time. and you still just don't get it. All I have to say is this:


 I wasn't expecting you to explain yourself. You never do. You just reference irrelevant posts instead of communicating directly. I imagine it takes more time to dig up post links than it does to explain yourself. Again, that only raises skepticism.



Senior Shrimpo said:


> Bud, calm down a second. You were just whining about how Asia gets all the good shrimp because they pay premiums for them, and now we're given that opportunity and you flip because they're soooo expensive. Coming from a guy who purchased hordes of the most expensive shrimp on the market I find that rich.
> 
> And yep, it's definitely true that auras are a lot cheaper in other countries. But not in the states where there's no sources for them. Our shrimpconomy is a lot different than other nations' shrimpconomies (excuse my coining of a term).
> 
> ...


 Okay, let me clarify things for you. The Japanese will pay a premium for extremely high grade shrimp with a perfect pattern etc etc. If we're going to pay a premium for shrimp don't you think they should meet some pretty strict guidelines? Otherwise, what's the point in the higher cost? 

Let me clarify something else for you and everyone else. There is no great shortage of Fire Blue or "Aura Blue" shrimp. FuShrimp sells them at a minimum quantity of 500. There's more than enough to go around. So why aren't more available? Well, I've already told you guys why my wholesalers don't carry them. According to Nikki, even Frank admits that these shrimp are many times more sensitive than BKK. Would you say that's a quality issue? Because I sure would and I'm confident that most would agree.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

MrFusion said:


> Actually, his question is legitimate. According to Nikki you said these shrimp are many times more sensitive than BKK. If that is the case and you suffer heavier losses when importing them, then that does justify a higher price. However, this also supports my wholesalers who said the quality is poor. No wonder you want him to PM you.


His PM is about how sensitive TB and JPRL are. And that I don't need JPRL to attain solid colors...just a strict breeding program. There were no selling/buying solicitation.

If you have any experience with JPRL post it or pm me too? I know you keep TB, but I don't know if you ever kept JPRL.

This is the second time I read about you mentioning the quality of his stock. If you want to spill the beans, you can pm me? :icon_bigg

I'm not taking any sides here...........just learning and gathering info. roud:


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> According to Nikki you said these shrimp are many times more sensitive than BKK. If that is the case and you suffer heavier losses when importing them, then that does justify a higher price. However, this also supports my wholesalers who said the quality is poor. No wonder you want him to PM you.



Please stop putting words into my mouth Mr Fusion. If you can not read responses appropriately in the first place, and logically understand what I am saying, then don't use it at all. Who said anything about purchasing them from Frank? I simply asked him what the requirements were for keeping these shrimp since he has experience with them and I had none. I would appreciate if we could interact with one another on a professional level. I have no need for unnecessary arguments with you since I have had zero to no experience with you in the past. I do question, why you have evident animosity towards me, since you seem to be misinterpreting my words to use in a negative fashion, and then your comments had to be removed by KyleT within my sub-forum as well. I am not sure where it stems from in the first place to be honest with you, as I have little to no contact with you previous to this. And as I am not one to usually have any issues with members I can not fix, I would like to see if I have personally affronted you without knowing it. If so, then I apologize for that, but I honestly have no idea where you hostility is stemming from.

Let's make it all clear for folks, my statement was in regards to JPRL which are sensitive due to the interbreeding nature. It's not like you can really add "new" stock to these guys to strengthen them since they are PURE LINE. 



ShortFin said:


> This is the second time I read about you mentioning the quality of his stock. If you want to spill the beans, you can pm me?


Please do find out, because the only thing I think he is referencing is because Speedie obtained a panda instead of a BKK, which I replaced. Outside of that, I have heard no negative statements and am wondering myself if there are issues as they should be addressed as I do not want to provide customers with stock that is not up to par with what I would want to receive.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

Sorry Nikki, if I get the info, I can not give it to you nor the public. It's just wouldn't be right. I hope you understand.

The reason I post what Frank said was to express there's nothing fishy going on by Frank in through pm's.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

msnikkistar said:


> Please stop putting words into my mouth Mr Fusion. If you can not read responses appropriately in the first place, and logically understand what I am saying, then don't use it at all. Who said anything about purchasing them from Frank? I simply asked him what the requirements were for keeping these shrimp since he has experience with them and I had none. I would appreciate if we could interact with one another on a professional level. I have no need for unnecessary arguments with you since I have had zero to no experience with you in the past. I do question, why you have evident animosity towards me, since you seem to be misinterpreting my words to use in a negative fashion, and then your comments had to be removed by KyleT within my sub-forum as well. I am not sure where it stems from in the first place to be honest with you, as I have little to no contact with you previous to this. And as I am not one to usually have any issues with members I can not fix, I would like to see if I have personally affronted you without knowing it. If so, then I apologize for that, but I honestly have no idea where you hostility is stemming from.
> 
> Let's make it all clear for folks, my statement was in regards to JPRL which are sensitive due to the interbreeding nature. It's not like you can really add "new" stock to these guys to strengthen them since they are PURE LINE.
> 
> ...


 I'm not putting words in your mouth. You said it yourself! lol You can reference your own post on the page previous to this one, but just in case you have any more trouble, I took the liberty of quoting you directly below...... 

Additionally, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is a little more than sick of your tactics to have any and all comments you dislike deleted from this forum.



msnikkistar said:


> Here's an example I got from Frank when I asked him about getting some myself.
> 
> A MINIMUM sized tank I would need for JPRL would be a 40 gallon. The bigger the better because their sensitivity is like 5 times worse then BKK.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> Okay, let me clarify things for you. The Japanese will pay a premium for extremely high grade shrimp with a perfect pattern etc etc. If we're going to pay a premium for shrimp don't you think they should meet some pretty strict guidelines? Otherwise, what's the point in the higher cost?
> 
> Let me clarify something else for you and everyone else. There is no great shortage of Fire Blue or "Aura Blue" shrimp. FuShrimp sells them at a minimum quantity of 500. There's more than enough to go around. So why aren't more available? Well, I've already told you guys why my wholesalers don't carry them. According to Nikki, even Frank admits that these shrimp are many times more sensitive than BKK. Would you say that's a quality issue? Because I sure would and I'm confident that most would agree.


Nahh that's not true, people will pay a crazy amounts for patterns and such in CRS, TBs, and others but that's not the only reason people pay crazy a lot. The fact that this is a new shrimp means people will pay more money for it... remember rilis? Or pumpkin shrimp? Or tangerine tigers? Or pandas even? In the beginning none of them had any special patterns (except for rili, but often patterns were shoddy at best when they first came out) people got them because they were new and they demanded crazy premiums. All of those started out a lot higher than $20-25 a shrimp (aka Auras pricing)


And you're right, there's no great shortage of them... in Asia. But we live in the US! There's next to nobody selling these shrimp in the US except for Nikki and Liam. It doesn't matter how much they're selling em in Singapore (which is honestly not that much less than what they're selling em for here, considering you're looking at wholesale prices which are obviously gonna be a lot cheaper and I'm looking at regular prices per shrimp like how Nikki/Liam are selling them by)

EDIT: Lol Fusion in the quote she clearly says JPRL, not aura blues.  srsly


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

Only way this argument is going to end is if everyone stops responding. I have dealt with Nikki and trust and believe in the product she carries. If she trusts Frank then I do too unless I see a reason not to. I don't know Mr.Fusion at all but right now everyone is that kid who has to get the last word in. Unfortunately when there is 3 or 4 people being the last word person it will never end. Example we are now off of the AB topic and now on the JPRL. Never ending argument.


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

you have NOTHING to worry about nikki. I have bought from you before about six months ago and just bought another batch. I have also bought from liam, you guys have great communication with the customer, answer any questions, and really take the extra step to ensure people are getting what they want. I can say this pretty much for any SnS experience i have had on TPT. I have only had one incident (which was NOT i repeat NOT the fault of either party buyer nor seller [stupid USPS]). 

I find Mr. Fusions comments/accusations against their reputation VERY distasteful/rude. And to be honest, since I WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED THIS THREAD, no slander was needed to answer the ORIGINAL QUESTION!!! Even though there was very valuable info that came out of this thread, IT STILL COULD HAVE WITHOUT THE SMARTA$$ COMMENTS AND RUDE REMARKS!!!!! 

To further exemplify how much this community here at the TPT is amazing just read through this thread 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/131611-we-got-mom-new-pics-4-a-3.html


THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE HARSH REMARKS TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS, you can catch more flies with honey. If you two wanted to argue personal grievances it could have easily been done through PRIVATE MESSAGING


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

Since we already are off topic and now on to a new one, what is JPRL (i know it stands for Just Pure Red Line), but does it mean Red Wines with no white bars?


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

JPRL = Japanese Pure Red Line.
Red Wines belongs in the Taiwan Bee category.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

dj2606 said:


> Since we already are off topic and now on to a new one, what is JPRL (i know it stands for Just Pure Red Line), but does it mean Red Wines with no white bars?


Nope PRL is a type of crystal red shrimp (not Taiwan Bee) that has no golden lineage at all (except in specific cases). PRL have been specifically bred for things like nicer red and white coverage as well as more egg carrying ability in some. Even S grades look awesome, SS is awesome-er, and SSS are really rare because they focus on quality not grade as much. 

Suuuuuuper expensive. lol

And DJ2606, you're right bud. Not adding to this fire anymore, I'm done.


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

So most of the CRS sold are or at one point bred with goldens?

LOL. these acronyms ridiculous. just so many to keep track of now.


Anyone have pics and want to share them for comparison?


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> Additionally, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is a little more than sick of your tactics to have any and all comments you dislike deleted from this forum.


Wait, so I have the ability outside of my own sub-forum to delete posts? I am sorry, but I do not have the admins in my pocket as you are trying to make it seem as if.

I was NOT the one that messaged Kyle to remove your posts. As a matter of fact, I had the ability MYSELF to remove your posts in my own subforum, but did not because I didn't feel it was the appropriate thing to do, as I do not hide anything from my clientele. Kyle removed it as it had nothing to do with you in the first place. 

But this is all moot, as it has nothing to do with the original thread or what was stated. I stand by what I said to you earlier, as I feel that a professional interaction is best. Again, if I have offended YOU in anyway for you to be so hostile to me, or anyone else for that matter, I do apologize. I am not perfect, nor do I pretend to be.

Please stay on subject now.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

^^Spoken like a champ Nikki.

DJ, most CRS have golden genetics in them. Not all of em though they could just be poor white- PRL ensures they have no golden genes in em (again except in specific cases)


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

msnikkistar said:


> Again, if I have offended YOU in anyway for you to be so hostile to me, or anyone else for that matter, I do apologize. I am not perfect, nor do I pretend to be.
> 
> Please stay on subject now.


 I don't believe I've said anything to you that was hostile. I've seen you complain about posts before and comments or entire threads were deleted. As I've said before, I have no personal issue with you, but you do tend to blow things out of proportion. Saying that I'm hostile towards you is one of them in my opinion. Regardless, I'm a big boy and can let bygones be bygones.


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## imke (Oct 6, 2010)

Hi, as a totally noob here, I wonder how this thread could run soo off topic, aggressive and nasty without any TPT-moderator jumping in?!?! This thread will not turn into something informative and good from here on and simply accusations with no proves won't help anybody... it sounds more like 'Chinese whispers' and telling rumors instead of facts. Was not even funny reading it  This is how it looks to somebody from outside the US...


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## Alpha Pro Breeders (Jan 26, 2010)

imke said:


> Hi, as a totally noob here, I wonder how this thread could run soo off topic, aggressive and nasty without any TPT-moderator jumping in?!?! This thread will not turn into something informative and good from here on and simply accusations with no proves won't help anybody... it sounds more like 'Chinese whispers' and telling rumors instead of facts. Was not even funny reading it  This is how it looks to somebody from outside the US...


Looks pretty well the same to most inside of the US


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

i personally thought a good portion of the argument has been hilarious, albeit totally distasteful. And there's been a lot of good info thrown in throughout, I think thats the only reason why all the posts haven't been deleted and/or that this thread hasn't been locked yet, The info.. But If it was up to me, people would've been banned for sure.. Sounds like reading little kids bickering back and forth.. *All we want is info, NOT fights!* Take it to pm if you want to do that, but leave all the good knowledge here..


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

dj2606 said:


> Since we already are off topic and now on to a new one, what is JPRL (i know it stands for Just Pure Red Line), but does it mean Red Wines with no white bars?


as a couple other guys stated, JPRL = Japanese Pure Red Line
There is also JPBL for Japanese Pure Black line

And there is just PRL/PBL from other countries like taiwan/thailand/korea/HK ect.

The big deal about them is A) Guaranteed genetics from only red or black crystals, no mixing. And B) SOLID whites(think painted fire red solid) and colors. Thats why they're so sought after 

Wine reds/Red Ruby's/BKK/Panda's all belong to Taiwan Bee's and have nothing to do with PRL/PBL. A wine red with no white(or just a single white bar that does not extend down the side of the shrimp) is actually a Red Ruby shrimp. the same that a 'panda' thats all black is actually a Black King Kong and not a panda


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

What would happen then if a CRS sss was crossed with a ruby?


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

dj2606 said:


> What would happen then if a CRS sss was crossed with a ruby?


You would get a CRRUBYSSS lol sorry. I think you get hybrids but not 100% sure I don't have any of the super high end bees. Someone will chime in thats knows for sure though


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

I Love this thread, very informative and exciting. It clarifies some confusions about the aura shrimp.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

dj2606 said:


> What would happen then if a CRS sss was crossed with a ruby?


you would get hybrids that all look like CRS that could potentially drop more taiwans if back crossed with taiwans. ^^


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Will someone cross a KK with a SSS Crown already? I'm still waiting for a BKK with Red Crown...


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Will someone cross a KK with a SSS Crown already? I'm still waiting for a BKK with Red Crown...


These are pretty neat

http://crustahunter.com/en/node/959


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

GeToChKn said:


> These are pretty neat
> 
> http://crustahunter.com/en/node/959


Aww yes, the new Pinto Taiwan Bees. Very Very Purrty indeed. Those will trickle down to the US market in like 10 years...lol

Can you imagine? You know how secretive shrimpers are, especially the hardcore breeders. If they are showing the Pintos, what are they working on behind secret door #2? The stuff that they are not showing.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Aww yes, the new Pinto Taiwan Bees. Very Very Purrty indeed. Those will trickle down to the US market in like 10 years...lol
> 
> Can you imagine? You know how secretive shrimpers are, especially the hardcore breeders. If they are showing the Pintos, what are they working on behind secret door #2? The stuff that they are not showing.


Yup, when they are showing something new, the other stuff that isn't show is behind closed door is really cool. Like the military. when they finally announced the stealth bomber existed, it was 20 years old and the next gen stuff was 10x more stealthy. lol.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Will someone cross a KK with a SSS Crown already? I'm still waiting for a BKK with Red Crown...


i'll let you know the when i get the k14's lol


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

what's a k14? 

lol sorry to keep asking questions.


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## dxiong5 (Sep 28, 2008)

dj2606 said:


> what's a k14?


The K-grading system is used by some breeders, and was first coined by the Logemann brothers from Germany. Instead of using C/B/A/S/SS/SSS (+), they use K0 - K14, in increments of two. K14 is the highest grade in this system.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

dxiong5 said:


> The K-grading system is used by some breeders, and was first coined by the Logemann brothers from Germany. Instead of using C/B/A/S/SS/SSS (+), they use K0 - K14, in increments of two. K14 is the highest grade in this system.


here's a link that shows it

http://crystal-red.de/aussehen.htm


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## Kez (Oct 26, 2011)

Wow, I can't believe I read all 18 pages. Sounds to me that someones entirely sour, if not jealous. Real cool dude.

Btw new here. been lurking on this forum for years, lots nice tanks here, just been too lazy to register, especially since most stuff here is high tech. I fiddle around with low-tech


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Kez said:


> Wow, I can't believe I read all 18 pages. Sounds to me that someones entirely sour, if not jealous. Real cool dude.
> 
> Btw new here. been lurking on this forum for years, lots nice tanks here, just been too lazy to register, especially since most stuff here is high tech. I fiddle around with low-tech


There is lots of low tech people, planted vases, bowls, and everything in between.


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## Kez (Oct 26, 2011)

GeToChKn said:


> There is lots of low tech people, planted vases, bowls, and everything in between.


Thanks for sharing  I'm sure there are plenty wonder set ups, I haven't even encountered yet. I ran into this thread curious about the answer to OP's original question....:icon_lol:



shrimpnmoss said:


> I personally always enjoy a heated debate. Just like the threads where ADG and Tom Barr arguing over effectiveness of ADA Powersand.


Do you have a link for this? I'm curious to hear the points of debate.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Kez said:


> Wow, I can't believe I read all 18 pages. Sounds to me that someones entirely sour, if not jealous. Real cool dude.
> 
> Btw new here. been lurking on this forum for years, lots nice tanks here, just been too lazy to register, especially since most stuff here is high tech. I fiddle around with low-tech


You are in the right spot Kez. Low tech is the way most shrimpers roll!



Kez said:


> Do you have a link for this? I'm curious to hear the points of debate.


Pull up a chair grab a beer. You'll need an hour. This is one link of two or three that I've personally read on different forums. Same arguments from both sides so this thread will suffice.
*
Powersand Debate*


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

dxiong5 said:


> The K-grading system is used by some breeders, and was first coined by the Logemann brothers from Germany. Instead of using C/B/A/S/SS/SSS (+), they use K0 - K14, in increments of two. K14 is the highest grade in this system.


There is also a line of K14 shrimps that only breeds 90% K14 and 10% K12s where they've stabilized the headgear trait. They did sacrifice the whites on the K14 line to stabilize the headgear though. I know a few people with these shrimps but none have reported breeding yet to confirm these claims. This was the marketing that was told to the buyers when K14s were brought in at the beginning of this year. Either way I want some more k14s too. I think I only have males.


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## Kez (Oct 26, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> There is also a line of K14 shrimps that only breeds 90% K14 and 10% K12s where they've stabilized the headgear trait. They did sacrifice the whites on the K14 line to stabilize the headgear though. I know a few people with these shrimps but none have reported breeding yet to confirm these claims. This was the marketing that was told to the buyers when K14s were brought in at the beginning of this year. Either way I want some more k14s too. I think I only have males.


Black shrimp with red headgears sounds epic. If i got the honor of naming it i would name it like Samurai shrimp or something. something raw. :angryfireroud:


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

I dunno if we'll ever be able to get an actual half black and half red shrimp like that due to the way the genes are for those colors, but it would be awesome! Although I did see a guy around online who's breeding SS's(hino/no-entry) that have Crown headgear.. And last I heard the K14's are breeding 99% true if crossed with eachother. 

oh, and whats up with these Orange Rili's? Where are those at.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

HolyAngel said:


> I dunno if we'll ever be able to get an actual half black and half red shrimp like that due to the way the genes are for those colors, but it would be awesome! Although I did see a guy around online who's breeding SS's(hino/no-entry) that have Crown headgear.. And last I heard the K14's are breeding 99% true if crossed with eachother.
> 
> oh, and whats up with these Orange Rili's? Where are those at.


No but small weird variations do pop up from time to time from mixed CBS/CRS tanks. I have one S grade CBS male that is solid black except for the tail bar is red and I have another SS grade that has an almost black head, brown half-no-hino mark in the middle and small red dot on the tail. lol. I doubt it breeds true nor is something I have enough time, energy, tanks, etc to breed with but it does seem to pop up from time to time.


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## Cynth (Sep 11, 2010)

GeToChKn said:


> These are pretty neat
> 
> http://crustahunter.com/en/node/959



Those are awesome! "I need those". Now they need to mutate into all pinto patterns; overo, tobiano and toverto.


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## plamski (Sep 25, 2009)

Cynth said:


> Those are awesome! "I need those". Now they need to mutate into all pinto patterns; overo, tobiano and toverto.


I’ll wait till they get done this particular pattern


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

I tell you, if One of us were to go into some hardcore asian breeder's facility with tiny spy cameras, we would see A LOT of shrimp we would never imagine! I was facebooking my friend in Vietnam yesterday and he was telling me about all these shrimp being sooo cheap and described a lot of shrimp I've never even heard of!


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

Tell you friend to take some pics and post them here.


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

The shrimp mafia would be all over him if he did! lolololol. I'm not sure if he would be "allowed" to...for their business reasons and stuff. Either ways, he's not in Vietnam ATM.


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

Kez said:


> Black shrimp with red headgears sounds epic. If i got the honor of naming it i would name it like Samurai shrimp or something. something raw. :angryfireroud:


Maybe Krueger? lol


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Alyssa said:


> Maybe Krueger? lol


No darth maul!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

plamski said:


> I’ll wait till they get done this particular pattern


 
Would not cull that blonde out. :icon_wink But really....I'm more into Asian shrimps....:hihi:


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Would not cull that blonde out. :icon_wink But really....I'm more into Asian shrimps....:hihi:


Bahahaha, that was hilarious. :hihi:


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

plamski said:


> I’ll wait till they get done this particular pattern


 Actually, there is a type of Sulawesi that has kind of a skeletal pattern I believe. I don't have time to dig up the picture, but I'm sure someone on here has it. It's a shame those shrimp aren't as popular as they were earlier this year. Everyone got distracted by Taiwan Bees. lol


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

MrFusion said:


> Actually, there is a type of Sulawesi that has kind of a skeletal pattern I believe. I don't have time to dig up the picture, but I'm sure someone on here has it. It's a shame those shrimp aren't as popular as they were earlier this year. Everyone got distracted by Taiwan Bees. lol


If you happen to run across the picture send it to me in a PM please, I would love to see it!


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## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Read most of this whole thread. Damn.

But I hope this gets answered.
Are Aura Blue suppose to be in pH of 6.8-7.0?


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Aura blue like any caridina should be in CRS parameters for optimal growth/breeding.. Ph ~6.2-6.8


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## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks.
I figured it should be the same as CRS/CBS.


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