# So tell me about Bolivian Rams...



## VeeSe (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi all,

I'm thinking about getting some Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosa) to finish out my tank. I am deciding on them over GBRs because of their increased hardiness and my relative inexperience with cichlids. I've never had any cichlids of any type before, and I only know the basics about these rams, so I wanted to ask you all what you thought.

1) How many should I keep in a 55G? I currently have 11 Harlequins and 11 cardinals in the tank and 6 otos + some amano shrimp coming out of QT next week. I don't have very defined territorial lines, so that might be a factor as well. I was thinking I'd just have a pair, but I also heard they are interesting in groups. Don't think I have the stocking room or the floor space for a group though. Thoughts?

2) What do you feed these guys? Even if they aren't picky eaters, I have trouble imagining how I'd get food down to these guys through the "swarm" of rasboras and tetras that hovers just under the surface as I feed.

3) In case I get a pair and they breed, how bad is the aggression to everybody else? Do I absolutely need a rock or flat surface?

4) Will my amanos go bye bye? I've heard from multiple people that they might be ok so I'm going ahead anyway, but feel free to chime in if you want.

Thanks all,
VeeSe


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## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Great choice. I think you could get away with two pairs if you get a few more decorations or large plants. They're breeding aggression is low as far a cichlids go, but still, they can be very protective of their young. However, I don't think it would be to the point of hurting other fish. Your amanos should be fine.


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

New Life Spectrum .5 mm sinking pellets are what I use to feed mine. Any bigger pellet and they'll just spit them out. I also supplement NLS flake for the rasboras and neon tetras, which tend to like to feed in the upper levels, but will scavenge leftover pellets if given the chance.


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## TWA (Jan 30, 2012)

How different are bolivians from German blues? I watched my rams hunt and kill adult cherry shrimp. My population went from 100+ to 9 in a heavily planted tank. Cichlids aren't usually the nicest fish when it comes to shrimp..


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

well...we don't don't know - which do you have?


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## TWA (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh I've got German blue rams. I just cannot imagine bolivians being that much nicer to shrimp than German blues. Mine was more of an add on question to know the difference in temperament between the two.


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

Mine are, first of all, no where near any shrimp, but...they're very...um...tentative..shy maybe.. I don't know if they'd snack on CRS or not. I will know shortly though. I set up a shrimp tank recently and will introduce a few to them. My instinct tells me that they would not bother to outrun them. I could be wrong ;-)


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Rams will eat baby shrimp - so will almost any fish. 
Rams would at the very least eat juvies, and if they don't eat them they may tear off a limb when bored from time to time, this could also happen to you adult amanos
Depends on the mood of the fish and how well fed it is.. or if it is bored.


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

I have a pair of bolivian rams (awesome fish) and four amanos kept in my 29 gallon. Never had a problem. They never seem to even notice the shrimp. I think amanos are a little more "defensive" then cherries, so they shouldn't be fishfood. Oh and a side note, if you are having trouble feeding the rams, frozen bloodworms do the trick.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

VeeSe said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm thinking about getting some Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosa) to finish out my tank. I am deciding on them over GBRs because of their increased hardiness and my relative inexperience with cichlids. I've never had any cichlids of any type before, and I only know the basics about these rams, so I wanted to ask you all what you thought.
> 
> ...


see above


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> I have a pair of bolivian rams (awesome fish) and four amanos kept in my 29 gallon. Never had a problem. They never seem to even notice the shrimp. I think amanos are a little more "defensive" then cherries, so they shouldn't be fishfood. Oh and a side note, if you are having trouble feeding the rams, frozen bloodworms do the trick.


I'm wondering how you deliver the bloodworms to them? Just drop a piece of frozen cube right into the water near them or? I have one of those floating worm rings with the funnel-shaped slotted piece in it. One of these deals:










I'm wondering if the rams would come to the top of the tank to get to the worms with that thing... I've never seen them more than 2-3" above the substrate.

Thanks!


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

m00se said:


> I'm wondering how you deliver the bloodworms to them? Just drop a piece of frozen cube right into the water near them or? I have one of those floating worm rings with the funnel-shaped slotted piece in it. One of these deals:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All I do is thaw the bloodworm cube in a cup of tank water, then pour it in. Simple as that. The worms sink pretty fast and the rams swim up to the mid level of the tank to get them.


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## digitallinh (Jun 22, 2011)

I just put 3 juveniles in a 29 a few weeks ago. I had 4 in there, but one was bullied by the other 3 constantly, I put him out of his misery. There is obviously bickering/nipped fins at times, other times they swim/hang around each other. I think it depends on your particular fish.

I have a leftover cherry shrimp colony that seems to be growing, but my tank is planted well.

To feed, I have a fine mesh net I put NLS 1mm pellets in, lower it into the midwater, and they go inside the net and grab the food. Should prove useful in case any pair up and I have to remove one.

I would suggest you get 5,6 to start and aim for 2 breeding pairs as a final stocking goal. I dont think there is enough room in a 55 for more than 2 males.


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## rroginela (Sep 24, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> I have a pair of bolivian rams (awesome fish) and four amanos kept in my 29 gallon. Never had a problem. They never seem to even notice the shrimp. I think amanos are a little more "defensive" then cherries, so they shouldn't be fishfood. Oh and a side note, if you are having trouble feeding the rams, frozen bloodworms do the trick.


+ 1 my Amano shrimp are 3 inch beasts now but have always been in my 75 with rams and a full grown angel and have yet to succumb. The shrimp hide allot so they don't make a very available target but even when they do come out I've never seen any fish bother them at all. All of this is of course based on individual living beings so personalities play a role too as well as how hungry the fish are allowed to get. 

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## kcartwright856 (Jan 16, 2012)

The feeding cones are more for live worms. It's designed so that they wiggle through the slots. Frozen worms rarely wiggle!


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## StygianSteel (Apr 2, 2010)

VeeSe said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm thinking about getting some Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosa) to finish out my tank. I am deciding on them over GBRs because of their increased hardiness and my relative inexperience with cichlids. I've never had any cichlids of any type before, and I only know the basics about these rams, so I wanted to ask you all what you thought.
> 
> ...


1. I'd do a pair. You could get away with 4 though if you want. Little more heavily stocked.

2. I used to feed my Bolivians Hikari Cichlid Gold (Mini size). My tetras would race to them and pick at them but then let them sink. A little too big for them to take but perfect size for the Rams.

3. A flat rock is good idea. Not sure how much luck you'll have without it. Haven't tried it. PS They also really enjoy having a cave or caves available to them.

4. My Bolivians never bothered my Amanos. Smaller shrimp would probably be fair game, but mine never showed any interest in adult Amanos.


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## rroginela (Sep 24, 2011)

kcartwright856 said:


> the feeding cones are more for live worms. It's designed so that they wiggle through the slots. Frozen worms rarely wiggle!


 +1


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## NWehrman (Jun 2, 2011)

I have a breeding pair in my planted community tank. They are only aggressive when guarding fry. I have amanos and neocardina's in the tank also. The neos are breeding and some survive - I'm sure some are lost also, to other tank inhabitants. There is discus, neons, black neons, Bolivian rams, ABN Pleco, amanos, neocardina's wild color form, Assasin snails.


Nicole

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