# Thrive All In One Liquid Fertilizer? Yay or Nay?



## AWolf

It bothers me when they don't list the contents on their front page. It appears I would have to go out of my way to see what is in this fertilizer. List of ingredients? Something to tell me what kind of iron chelation and amounts? I don't like that. The first thing you should see is what the product is, not what it can do.


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## Nazasaki

AWolf said:


> List of ingredients?


It says, at least per the picture on the bottle: Contains Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium, Iron, Magnesium, Copper, Boron, Manganese, Molybdenum, and Zinc.

Bump: Nilcog also has a Macro and Micro liquid fert, in separate bottles. All ingredients and amounts are listed.
http://nilocg.com/liquid-npk-m/


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## AWolf

Nazasaki said:


> It says, at least per the picture on the bottle: Contains Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium, Iron, Magnesium, Copper, Boron, Manganese, Molybdenum, and Zinc.


Amounts and types is more important to me. My problem is their web page lack of description. And if that is all the bottle says, and does not mention amounts and types somewhere, it would be hard to say what value it has in aquariums. I remain skeptical without the metrics. I hate hate hate when the first web page defines the product loosely like ...some of this, some of that. I'm trying not to kill any fish and the fastest way to kill them is with fertilizing. I have a new respect for those on this and other forums that have kept planted tanks with fish while fertilizing. I would be willing to bet 10 bucks that the best planted tanks know exactly how much of any substance is entering their water column, and mix their own fertilizers. So pre-mixed product with hard to find specs will always be suspect to me.


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## Nazasaki

AWolf said:


> So pre-mixed product with hard to find specs will always be suspect to me.


So in that case would The PPS Pro fertilizer package from Green Leaf Aquatics be a better choice? I didn't want to do dry but I see your point in putting something into my tank that I'm not too sure about. I would only do the dry about 2x per week.

I feel like I'm going to be wasting my time and money doing this for such a low tech tank... I think I may just stick to the Flourish Comprehensive and maybe add some Excel.


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## AWolf

Nazasaki said:


> I feel like I'm going to be wasting my time and money doing this for such a low tech tank... I think I may just stick to the Flourish Comprehensive and maybe add some Excel.


Yea, I know what you mean. The liquid ferts like flourish are expensive over time, but they get the job done. I have just started learning to make my own liquid ferts from dry for pennies a year, instead of dollars a month. I killed some fish by adding too much nitrate....but I'm not going to give up because I like saving money. Premixes are a convenience and I like that too. Until you feel like mixing your own, I think the seachem ferts are good enough.


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## sevendust111

His diy ei liquid package has the amounts right on the bottles. I got the package shipped with a pound of gh booster for 32$. One bottle of flourish is 15$ from my local petsmart. 

If you use his ei liquid package on a low tech tank it would last you a long time. Using metricide instead of excel too and your saving some serious cash.


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## Nazasaki

So I ordered Flourish Excel and Flourish Iron from dr.foster and smith for $5 a bottle. I still have my bottle of Flourish comprehensive I got from my LFS for $9 and I have half a bottle left even after using it for 8 months. I think this will be best for me since these bottles should last me a little over a year. Once the bottles come in the mail I have to figure out a dosing schedule.

I was thinking on dosing the excel, iron, and comprehensive on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I do a 25-30% water change on Saturday and add Prime.

I hear some people dose excel every day. I don't think this is necessary for my tank as my anubias has good growth but I just want a little extra boost. A select few of my leaves are a bit yellow, not terrible but noticeable, hence the flourish Iron. Also noteworthy is that this tank is low light (single t8) and low demanding plants. Anubias, marimo moss balls, java moss, and some anacharis I thew in the corner just to see how it does.

Bump:

Bump: Here is a picture just for reference.


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## Veritas

I see marimo moss balls in your tank - I wouldn't use Excel. They are a form of algae and excel will kill them


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## Nazasaki

Veritas said:


> They are a form of algae and excel will kill them


Yes they are a form of algae but excel in small doses will not harm them. People normally run into issues when the dose is doubled or when putting excel directly onto the marimo.


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## Veritas

ok - do as you will.


for Nicolg's stuff - I trust him. He's a member on here and is pretty active. You could always just PM him.


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## AWolf

Nazasaki said:


> Bump:
> 
> Bump: Here is a picture just for reference.


Really beautiful tank. I love the use of Marimo Balls. I've never really liked those things but the way you use them in your tank is inspiring. It makes me want to go out and buy some and duplicate your tank. I want that tank in my house.:bounce:


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## burr740

AWolf said:


> Really beautiful tank. I love the use of Marimo Balls. I've never really liked those things but the way you use them in your tank is inspiring.


Was about to say the same thing. That's a very good look!

The excel will most likely melt the anacharis. It's one plant that doesnt tolerate it well....at all.


The yellow leaves on the anubias, is it the old growth or new growth affected? New growth could be iron, older leaves it's most likely nitrogen.

Regarding the all in one fert from nilocq. I too would like to see exact amounts listed. Not as concerned with exactly what it contains, his ferts have a good enough reputation already. More interested in exactly how many pppms of each nutrient it provides.

Having said that, it might be just the thing for OP's tank because it should cover the whole range of nutrients plants need. I would be tempted to try it in very small amounts. Im sure there is a dose listed for low tech tanks.


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## Nazasaki

AWolf said:


> I want that tank in my house.:bounce:


I have way too much money invested in those marimo than I'd like to admit haha
But by far my favorite aquarium plant!

Bump:


burr740 said:


> Was about to say the same thing. That's a very good look!
> 
> The excel will most likely melt the anacharis. It's one plant that doesnt tolerate it well....at all.
> 
> 
> The yellow leaves on the anubias, is it the old growth or new growth affected? New growth could be iron, older leaves it's most likely nitrogen..


Thank you! And it's the old growth. I did a quick search of nutrient deficiencies in anubias....so far I'm seeing very small signs of potassium and nitrogen deficiency. I'm eagerly awaiting my package of the ferts to arrive. I really want this tank to flourish!


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## ChalupaBatman

AWolf said:


> I remain skeptical without the metrics. I hate hate hate when the first web page defines the product loosely like ...some of this, some of that. I'm trying not to kill any fish and the fastest way to kill them is with fertilizing. I have a new respect for those on this and other forums that have kept planted tanks with fish while fertilizing. I would be willing to bet 10 bucks that the best planted tanks know exactly how much of any substance is entering their water column, and mix their own fertilizers. So pre-mixed product with hard to find specs will always be suspect to me.


I can understand your point AWolf. I used to measure everything and tried be precise in all that went into my tank (fert wize). I started my dutch tank using PPS pro, then moved on to EI. I met Colin (niloCg) a couple years ago and we've talked quite often and late last year I was telling him that I was always missing daily doses, I asked him if he had something simpler than EI (yes I know it's simple anyway, but I'm lazy). So he told me about his new All-in-one and asked if I would use my tank as a testbed for his new fert. I have a 125g Dutch tank with upwards of 150 fish, 500+ red cherry shrimp, a bamboo shrimp, and some CPO dwarf crays. I started using it in January of 2016 and to be honest, there is very little difference, in terms of results, between EI and Thrive. The difference is that thrive is one bottle that I can dose 3x per week and that's it. I can't remember the last time a fish died and my shrimp colony is thriving so I can say for sure that it is 100% shrimp/fish safe. I think he doesn't want to list the exact recipe because he worked hard to perfect the levels of each ingredient, and it's his business' product that he wants to protect. That being said, I would definitely recommend it if you want to save yourself some trouble. It is a bit more expensive than dry but I'll pay for some convenience.


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## Nazasaki

ChalupaBatman said:


> That being said, I would definitely recommend it if you want to save yourself some trouble. It is a bit more expensive than dry but I'll pay for some convenience.



Thanks for the input! I'm going to try the Seachem products I already ordered for a few months and see if I like them. If I don't like the results I'm getting I'll order the liquid for Nilcog.


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## AWolf

Nazasaki said:


> Yes they are a form of algae but excel in small doses will not harm them. People normally run into issues when the dose is doubled or when putting excel directly onto the marimo.


I've heard that using 1/2 the recommended dose for excel is common practice in order to keep things alive. I've read many sad stories about excel and it's effects. Less is more.


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## Nazasaki

AWolf said:


> Less is more.


Agreed entirely.


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## Padres1234

So what's the difference then between Thrive Thrive All In One Liquid Fertilizer | 500ml Bottle - NilocG Aquatics and the Liquid Dosing Liquid NPK+M - NilocG Aquatics


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## bsantucci

Two bottles versus one. Three days of dosing versus six. Colin's thrive has his own proprietary blend versus EI though.

Ive been using thrive for about 2 weeks versus dry dosing. To be honest I am getting better growth from some stubborn plants I've had trouble with in the past. Too early to tell 100 percent but it seems to be a good mix. I was planning to going back to making my own solutions already since I have some suspicions around dry dosing causing my issues. 

Long term I think thrive will be too costly to dose for my 48g tank though. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## AWolf

ChalupaBatman said:


> I think he doesn't want to list the exact recipe because he worked hard to perfect the levels of each ingredient, and it's his business' product that he wants to protect..


I'm not sure that is a good way to go. People should see exactly what is in a product. If his product is about convenience, then his listing the percentages of each nutrient shouldn't matter. In fact, people like myself would be more comfortable buying the product and using it when we can't mix our own, etc. Confidence in a product is defined by it's ingredients. I wouldn't feed my dog a can of food that just said 'Dog Food', on the label, unless I was desperate.

An extreme example for fun: Dinner at Hannibal Lector's house.


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## bsantucci

AWolf said:


> I'm not sure that is a good way to go. People should see exactly what is in a product. If his product is about convenience, then his listing the percentages of each nutrient shouldn't matter. In fact, people like myself would be more comfortable buying the product and using it when we can't mix our own, etc. Confidence in a product is defined by it's ingredients. I wouldn't feed my dog a can of food that just said 'Dog Food', on the label, unless I was desperate.
> 
> An extreme example for fun: Dinner at Hannibal Lector's house.


I spoke with Colin asking about levels and he said he did not want to disclose at this time. I too, would prefer to know. He just said it delivers near EI levels of macros and about half the amount of iron as a full EI dose.

So overall it's a bit light on ferts versus full EI. I've had good success in my limited time. I figure worst case, watch plants and I may have to dose extra P or Fe.

I haven't used ADA's line of liquid ferts so I'm curious, do they disclose levels?


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## AWolf

I do not believe the Aquarium Hobby is overseen by the US Dept. of Agriculture's or FDA guidelines on product information. Lately I am concerned about quality and trust fertilizers and livestock feed that are overseen by each agency. If it doesn't have a USDA stamp, or is 're-packaged' product, there may be a quality and content issue. So buying dry fertilizer and mixing my own gives me the most confidence in the final product. If I can't mix my own, then I would appreciate a listing label of percentages and types.

**The USDA and FDA are some of the USA's most valuable agencies IMHO. They are responsible for the quality oversight of food from it's fertilization and feed (livestock) to our tables. I believe this issue over labeling contents may also involve FDA guidelines. If you label something listing percentages/contents, you may be subject to audit by the agency.? All others, 'Buyer Beware'.


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## nilocg

bsantucci said:


> _*I haven't used ADA's line of liquid ferts so I'm curious, do they disclose levels?*_



Last I checked they do not disclose this information.


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## burr740

Regulated or not, aquarium brands and even house plant fertilizers have a "guaranteed analysis" listing percentages.....just sayin


Edit: Not sure about ADA, but I know Seachem and Tetra does because Im sitting here looking at it.


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## nilocg

I appreciate everyones feedback, in the past I have provided the breakdown for most everything else, but for the time being I wont be doing so for this. If thats a deal breaker for you I respect that and understand. I hope that everyone has a nice day. Thanks.


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## Saxa Tilly

Thrive will probably be my go-to vacation fert form now on. I travel a lot and telling care-takers to add various fractions of white powders into tanks is just a bad idea. Too many things can go wrong. 

With Thrive, it's brain-free and thought-free. It's simple. If the tank holds up well while I'm away, I may consider using it on a regular basis. 

As far as ingredient non-disclosure, well, that's a strategic misfire that I somewhat understand and accept. I'd think the 'secret sauce' is in the process and chelation rather than quantity of actives. Given that EI folks are controlling micro-mangers of their tank environment, this may frustrate some of us. But from a business perspective, there are probably 10 convenience-seeking, non-micro-managers for every EI person. So NilocG may be on to something after all.


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## ChalupaBatman

Saxa Tilly said:


> Thrive will probably be my go-to vacation fert form now on. I travel a lot and telling care-takers to add various fractions of white powders into tanks is just a bad idea. Too many things can go wrong.
> 
> With Thrive, it's brain-free and thought-free. It's simple. If the tank holds up well while I'm away, I may consider using it on a regular basis.
> 
> As far as ingredient non-disclosure, well, that's a strategic misfire that I somewhat understand and accept. I'd think the 'secret sauce' is in the process and chelation rather than quantity of actives. Given that EI folks are controlling micro-mangers of their tank environment, this may frustrate some of us. But from a business perspective, there are probably 10 convenience-seeking, non-micro-managers for every EI person. So NilocG may be on to something after all.


I used to micromanage as well but after talking with Colin for a long time I finally trusted him enough to try it out on my baby. I'm glad I did because I've been very happy with results and though I do add Fe once per week and I double the dosage on Mondays after my WC, I think for most tanks it will do just fine with the recommended dosage. That being said, each tank is different and what works for some, may not work for others. I do think you're right though that the real secret to thrive is the process and chelation rather than quantity of actives.


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## tannerg

Interesting. I just bought some thrive for a planted 20g aquarium. It will be a fresh setup and I will be starting with this dosing method. Can Post weekly pictures if anyone is curious about the progress.


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