# Noob with noob questions



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

The 24" Marineland Double Bright is just enough for really low light plants and mosses. You'll be better off going with a T5NO fixture or CFLs, which are great for plants.

The dirt folks will likely chime in to help you with the rest.


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## tatersalad (Dec 7, 2011)

Your choice of substrate depends on what type of plants you want to keep. If you want a lot of heavy root feeders such as amazon swords or chain swords or dwarf sag, then use dirt. If you think you will probably end up keeping more stem plants or mosses, then I would not do dirt. A 20 long is not too big to think about purchasing some of the ready made substrates like fluval plant stratum or Eco-complete.
Research what plants you like the most and come up with a layout you might want to do. Then choose your substrate according to that. As expensive as this hobby is, the research you do before you actually setup your tank could save you a lot of $$$$$ in the long run.
I wish I would have done that before I started my first hi tech tank.


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## espectroundead (May 14, 2012)

tatersalad said:


> Your choice of substrate depends on what type of plants you want to keep. If you want a lot of heavy root feeders such as amazon swords or chain swords or dwarf sag, then use dirt. If you think you will probably end up keeping more stem plants or mosses, then I would not do dirt. A 20 long is not too big to think about purchasing some of the ready made substrates like fluval plant stratum or Eco-complete.
> Research what plants you like the most and come up with a layout you might want to do. Then choose your substrate according to that. As expensive as this hobby is, the research you do before you actually setup your tank could save you a lot of $$$$$ in the long run.
> I wish I would have done that before I started my first hi tech tank.



I was planning on keeping beginner plants such as Anacharis, anubias, java fern, aponogetons, jungle vallisneria, etc...Would these plants do well in a non dirted tank with just sand as the substrate?


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## espectroundead (May 14, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> The 24" Marineland Double Bright is just enough for really low light plants and mosses. You'll be better off going with a T5NO fixture or CFLs, which are great for plants.
> 
> The dirt folks will likely chime in to help you with the rest.


 Thanks! The whole tank lighting thing gives me a huge head ache. I was thinking that I could use the LEDs along with CFL bulbs to get a good amount of light in the tank. Is that a good idea  ?


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## tatersalad (Dec 7, 2011)

espectroundead said:


> I was planning on keeping beginner plants such as Anacharis, anubias, java fern, aponogetons, jungle vallisneria, etc...Would these plants do well in a non dirted tank with just sand as the substrate?


 Yes, they will do fine. If you want to just use the sand, get you some root tabs to go around the jungle vals and apontogens.


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## espectroundead (May 14, 2012)

tatersalad said:


> Yes, they will do fine. If you want to just use the sand, get you some root tabs to go around the jungle vals and apontogens.


Would I get the same amount of growth though? Also, with just sand substrate would I have to dose the tank with fertilizer? and is CO2 essential for the health of the plants?

My plans are to have a low maintenance planted aquarium. Nothing fancy since i'm a noob at this lol.


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## hakishimiei (Oct 13, 2011)

Then dont use co2. Even the diy co2 is a pain in the ass.
Ima noob too.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

I consider myself a newbie too. Although I have to say that I learned one thing for sure:
less light, less hassle.(mostly with algae)

The info I will post below is just my beliefs as it cannot be considered knowledge yet, just my experience. Of course there will be different opinions and way better ways of doing things.


Co2 is directly related to your light. If you have low enough light then you are all good without co2 nor ferts.










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With high light you need co2 and ferts.








Besides worrying about algae you have to keep up with the tank metabolism and provide enough ferts so the plants stay healthy.

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This all depends of your livestock and feeding in regards of no3 and po4. The less fish and feeding, the easier it gets.

I gave up with fish, it's way more fun to have nice shrimp.

We all fight algae! 

I'm currently experimenting with medium light, little co2 and traces for this shrimp only tank.









So far, algae free and healthy plants with the exception of one that is showing deficiencies.

Hope this helps.


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## hakishimiei (Oct 13, 2011)

Beautiful tank!!


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

One more thing about substrate, starting with few plants and then add more:

A certain amount of photosynthesis has to happen depending on the light, if there is not enough plants to take all the nutrients available in the water in relation to the light then algae will fill up the gap.

This is how I understand it.

Start with a lot plants.

Save yourself frustration and get good active substrate, it will be easier for a newbie to do that rather than trying to use something and difficult to clean as sand(for me).
Fluval shrimp stratum, fluval plant stratum, Ada soils, mr aqua, aquasoil, whatever but soil you can't cheap out if you want it to be easier. That way you can have most plants in low light with no nutrients nor co2. 

Filtration and water flow is important too, when you overkill it the tank looks awesomely clean. Canisters are the best.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

If you're going to use CFLs, my advice is to skip the Marineland fixture. You'll save tons of money and will have a more uniform look.



espectroundead said:


> Thanks! The whole tank lighting thing gives me a huge head ache. I was thinking that I could use the LEDs along with CFL bulbs to get a good amount of light in the tank. Is that a good idea  ?


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

espectroundead said:


> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4391507 the 24- 36 inch one)? Are spiral CFL lights a good choice for growing plants?
> That's all I can think of at the moment but i'm sure i'll have a million more questions later on.
> 
> Thanks! and i'm really looking forward to being part of this forum and learning from you guys :icon_bigg.


I use this spriral cfl 
http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/eiko_05622ek_sp50_955k.asp
Go to http://eiko.com/Products.aspx?CatID=94 for more tech info on this light.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

GE Daylight CFLs range in price from $3 to $8 at the local grocery and hardware stores, typically.


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## espectroundead (May 14, 2012)

Thanks for the help everyone! I'm still debating on whether I should dirt my tank or just go with sand substrate.


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## espectroundead (May 14, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> If you're going to use CFLs, my advice is to skip the Marineland fixture. You'll save tons of money and will have a more uniform look.


How many Cfl lights would I need to have medium light on a 20 high?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It would depend upon the fixture/reflector you're using and the size of the bulbs.



espectroundead said:


> How many Cfl lights would I need to have medium light on a 20 high?


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## espectroundead (May 14, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> It would depend upon the fixture/reflector you're using and the size of the bulbs.


I was thinking of two 15 w CFL lights. Um, reflector  ? lol

Or maybe two bulbs of these http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100687001/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=CFL&storeId=10051


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## MitchD (Feb 14, 2012)

If you do decide to go with dirt. Do not go with cO2 you will have an outrageous algae problem. In a year or so you can get away with it. And you really should heavily plant it right from the get go. There are just so many nutrients in your column when you first dirt the tank that you should really take advantage of before algae does.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Dirt is awesome and super cheap. It has it's downsides, rescaping is a nightmare. Your plants will absolutely love it though.



> Co2 is directly related to your light. If you have low enough light then you are all good without co2 nor ferts


Correct. With low light there will be less demand for nutrients and co2, whatever is in the water column already plus respiration from your fauna will be sufficient if the light is low enough.

Also dirt will release a certain amount of co2.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

MitchD said:


> If you do decide to go with dirt. Do not go with cO2 you will have an outrageous algae problem. In a year or so you can get away with it. And you really should heavily plant it right from the get go. There are just so many nutrients in your column when you first dirt the tank that you should really take advantage of before algae does.


 Don't you have to have co2 to allow the plants to use the nutrients in the water column? Of course this depending of the light, right? Otherwise the lack of co2 will be the limiting factor in "Liebig's law of the minimum". At least that is what I was told. Is this accurate?


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

pejerrey said:


> Don't you have to have co2 to allow the plants to use the nutrients in the water column? Of course this depending of the light, right? Otherwise the lack of co2 will be the limiting factor in "Liebig's law of the minimum". At least that is what I was told. Is this accurate?


There will be co2 in the water column just not that much.


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## MitchD (Feb 14, 2012)

There will always be some c02 in your water. As tap water is rich with it and so is the air above your tank. But if you start pumping it in there off of a canister and combine that with all the nutrients left in the water column from a freshly dirted tank you will most likely not have planted heavily enough to avoid the algae situation.


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## espectroundead (May 14, 2012)

I decided to go w/ sand substrate and no dirt. I will only have low light plants. So just to make sure, low light plants do not require a CO2 thing? Would they require fertilizers or are root tabs good enough?


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