# Tell me why I shouldn't...



## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

I see no reason not to try it... it works in nature, so with enough soaking of the dirt, it should work in a tank as well, right? Granted, if you put any fish in there that like to dig, that could cause messes obviously...


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## scotty b (Oct 23, 2012)

I have done it . like the look and plant growth. just dont dislupt the soil


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

This actually is encouraging feedback. I'd planned to sift it first through a 1/4" hardware cloth to remove any junk. Then add a little Laterite under the dirt.
Then put hand picked from local streams, some small river rocks on top of most of it.
But not that it would be covered/w them. Just scattered across the top for effect.
With a few random pieces of small wood. Don't have a particular objective in mind other than an attempt to provide somewhat of a natural environment.
Not looking for an under water flower bouquet.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Sounds like you and I might have some of the same thoughts on what "natural" should look like. I know you are a way South guy but we may have swum in the same creeks! I started at one point with solid pool filter sand but that was just so pure and white it didn't look right. Did some swapping and got Flourite in the deal so I set up a tank with a Flourite and brown gravel mix. That seemed better but when I changed tanks again I needed more cover and combined some from several tanks. Some dirt, some PFS, some play sand and some Flourite. The combo looks and feels right! It has a way of drifting and changing itself around and getting sorted in a way I see streams do it. 
I might suggest doing some of the sifting into water so that the little wood chips, etc. will float up rather than waiting till it's in the tank? 
Downsides and reasons not to do it? You can't change your mind and "unmix" them if you want. The dirt does muddy the water if I get into ripping out large plants with roots but it settles back down just like a creek would. I have to go around and swish the dust off leaves after It settles. I may lose a little more when I get careless vaccing around the dirt than if I had sand but it is the ultimate cheap stuff when I dig it out of the yard! But as long as we know dirt will act like dirt, I'm for it.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I appreciate all who answered this thread as I was a little apprehensive about it.
I expect to need to allow it to settle for at least three weeks after placing it in the tank without having the filter on or any stock in there, plants or fish etc.
My tanks have always been(haven't a clue why I would try to spell this word) a bit
essoteric in nature. I convince myself it's OK because they are "a work in progress"
type of thing. That is a reference to my DIY built in bio-only filters and my wall deco.
This will be the fourth installment to replace the first tank and it's redo, the third tank.
We'll see...


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## JeremyM (Feb 23, 2012)

Be careful what you guys are calling "natural"... though scenarios somewhat like this do occur in nature, it rarely functions as the type of thriving ecosystem with plants and vertebrates that we would like to re-create in an aquarium. I would liken this system more to a small stagnant puddle- the anerobic type you see that smells of rot and ammonia and contains mostly mosquito larvae, and perhaps some flying insect pupae or aquatic worms and nemerteans. I would think that the flow required to prevent the substrate from being disturbed would not be strong enough to provide adequate oxygenation to the water nor offer strong enough filtration, biological or mechanical. Now I can't speak from experience as I've never tried this method, but to me it seems like a pretty bad idea, especially since I've had negative experiences with capped dirt and losing that cap would have only made things worse.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

scotty b said:


> I have done it . like the look and plant growth. just dont dislupt the soil


You've done it with Miracle Gro, specifically?

I'm surprised it would stay down.

Every time I've used MGOP, it has been composed of extremely lightweight stuff (peat, chips, etc) that I don't think would stay down at all without a cap. It's just made up of really buoyant material.

Maybe mixing it with a little clay would help clump it up and hold it down?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

JeremyM said:


> Be careful what you guys are calling "natural"... though scenarios somewhat like this do occur in nature, it rarely functions as the type of thriving ecosystem with plants and vertebrates that we would like to re-create in an aquarium. I would liken this system more to a small stagnant puddle- the anerobic type you see that smells of rot and ammonia and contains mostly mosquito larvae, and perhaps some flying insect pupae or aquatic worms and nemerteans. I would think that the flow required to prevent the substrate from being disturbed would not be strong enough to provide adequate oxygenation to the water nor offer strong enough filtration, biological or mechanical. Now I can't speak from experience as I've never tried this method, but to me it seems like a pretty bad idea, especially since I've had negative experiences with capped dirt and losing that cap would have only made things worse.


Yeah, I would worry about it going anaerobic, too. Good point.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

My thoughts were more towards Miracle Grow organic top soil instead of potting soil.
Therein is the difference that might have peat and other humus type things in it.
And actually if Miracle Grow doesn't have a organic top soil, I already have an organic top soil from Loew's.
FWIW...I priced Amazonia and the three liter bag only cost $14...plus $16.79 shipping.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

There was a reason that I can't remember not to use the MGO topsoil... urea content, maybe?


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## scotty b (Oct 23, 2012)

i used stor brand "organic" top soil i had to shift out the wood chips and peet and misc junk


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks for the "heads up" laural on the MG soil. I already have the type from Loew's.
Might as well use it. Time to think on it still exist as it won't happen any time soon.


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## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

The top soil contains manure, hence people's aversion to it... not that it can't be used (I'm sure we all recall Dogfish's toxic 10 experiment), but it's just more work as you have to deal with the extra ammonia and such.
I've certainly done a few low or no flow dirted tanks and haven't had problems, but they've been heavily planted... that's one thing you want to make sure to do or you'll run into possible algae blooms. Especially floating or emergent plants to soak up more of the nutrients.
Another ingredient to keep anaerobic soil at bay could be MTS and/or blackworms, depending on the fish you plan on adding.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I would give it a try. I think the main problem you will have is uprooting things and clouding the tank. All my dirted tanks have stayed pretty much the same from start to finish so it wouldn't be an issue for me. I would also wait quite a bit for things to stabilize, I wonder if it would leach for longer but also if it would leach when disturbed as it will get moved more. I would also plan to clean the filter a lot at first. I think once up and running, it would be just like any other tank long term. It has been done before, I know that.


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

I say do it you can also add a little black sand on top maybe to prevent a little cloudiness.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm not adding the soil for the plants so capping it would kill the whole reason for it to be there. But it won't be exposed either. Almost impossible to describe what I have in mind so if I do it eventually you will see it. May remember to take pictures along the way while building it. But fairly sure about taking a few at intervals as it fills in/w any plants before I deam it something I want people to see. Could just turn out a mess also.
If I do it, I'll need to try a coupled of different plants to see which works best for me.
Really just doing a new 10g build to replace one that I'm not completely happy/w.
The dirt idea is a very definate maybe for it though...LOL...


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## 180g (May 20, 2014)

ok. im SURE if you do it the plants will love it.

best of luck


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## MeCasa (Apr 22, 2014)

I have a grow tank set up with with something called Miracle Grow Organic Garden Soil from Lowe's, I'd like to say I got it to avoid the humus etc. in the potting soil but I got it because it's all they stock in organic. It's not the same as the Organic Potting because I saw the Potting at Walmart and the mix was different (OK it was me that ripped the corner of the bag); the bags were smaller and it was more expensive although this was what I eventually put under the substrate of my main tank.

The Garden Soil has been a pita for water clarity, I think it would do better with an established tank with a heavy ground cover but I think it could be a long term pain. Not sure because I've only had it in a tank for three weeks, just a guesstimate based on current conditions although a grow tank being constantly worked on and an established tank being left alone are different animals for sure.

Point is that it won't like being messed with and I'm not 100% convinced the algae doesn't feed off it.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

If the tank is to be filtered,you will soon see that soil based tank's filter material becomes dirtier much faster than those with just plain gravel or sand with no soil.
Is why I clean my canister filter's monthly in soil based tank's if I want anything close to clear looking water but I am near anal about water clarity.
Should also note I have a lot of fish some of which like to root around the substrate.
Can't imagine what my soil based tank's would be like without a cap with regard's to said water clarity.


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