# First time shrimp tank



## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

This is my first time having any type of tank...I have a 20gallon tank. I'm wanting to keep shrimps.

It's been a week of cycling today. I used tap water with api tap water conditioner. I tested yesterday my ammonia is .50 ph 8.2 nitrite 0 nitrate 0. 

I decided to test my tap water straight from faucet.. ph 7.4 ammonia 2 nitrite 0 nitrate 0

Should I do a water change with the tap water or use ro water? I'm guessing my tap water has chrolphmine which may cause false readings? 

My tank has java fern java moss dwarf hairgrass moss balls and amazon sword. Eco Complete Planted Black Aquarium Substrate. Sponge filter. Water heater hasn't came in yet but my water is around 65 degrees. Finnex planted 24/7 light


Need help!!


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I wouldn't recommend doing a water change until the cycle is complete and ammonia and nitrite reads 0.


Do you have any decorations in the tank?


Do you know what your GH, KH and TDS readings are?


Are you using any ammonia or food to feed the cycle?


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> I wouldn't recommend doing a water change until the cycle is complete and ammonia and nitrite reads 0.
> 
> 
> Do you have any decorations in the tank?
> ...




I have rocks and some white substrate. 
I don't have any food to feed the cycle...not sure what that is? 

I don't have a gh kh tds reading.. 

How do I know when the cycle is complete? 

Is my tap water bad with that high of ammonia? Will I be able to use tap water for pwc?


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi there! Welcome to TPT! 
First off, I'd recommend getting a different water conditioner such as Seachem Prime as the one you have does not treat for chloramines. The ammonia reading of the tap definitely indicates for chloramines.

As to your cycle, you need to have something that cause the ammonia, a "food". The cycle is complete when you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitRITE and 10-20 nitRATE within adding 24 hours of ammonia.

This is in my opinion the best to cycle your tank:
www.amazon.com/dp/B006MP4QG6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ZsWvybCZEA8ZR

You don't really need a gh/kh test kit, not super important. TDS though is nice to have, especially if you're going for shrimp.
www.amazon.com/dp/B014QO4CI6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_VuWvyb608EJF3

Without treating it, yes tap is bad. But with the correct water conditioner you should be fine. If you have access to RO, that's always better though!


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

TropicalAquarist said:


> Hi there! Welcome to TPT!
> First off, I'd recommend getting a different water conditioner such as Seachem Prime as the one you have does not treat for chloramines. The ammonia reading of the tap definitely indicates for chloramines.
> 
> As to your cycle, you need to have something that cause the ammonia, a "food". The cycle is complete when you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitRITE and 10-20 nitRATE within adding 24 hours of ammonia.
> ...


So get prime and do a partial water change? 20%?

So the tap water is fine if I use prime? So I treat it in a bucket for a few days before I do the water change?

If I switch to ro water I would have to had minerals and stuff? More work? If it's easier I'll just get ro water? If it's easier do I start doing pwc with ro?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

You don't need to do a water change until after the cycle is complete.


I got ammonia from Ace Hardware for the last cycle I did. Main thing is to get clear ammonia that doesn't get soapy when it is shaken. If it gets sudsy, it's not safe to use.
Ace 1qt Ammonia (10183A) - Industrial Cleaners - Ace Hardware


IMO, GH and KH can be important to know. It depends on the type of shrimp you are planning on keeping, too. I tried keeping cherry shrimp in pure tap water. "Everyone" has great luck keeping cherry shrimp in tap water without issues! Me? Nope! Found out later that the water was too soft and it was causing the shrimp to die. I wouldn't have known for sure without testing the water.


You don't need to age tap water, but it doesn't hurt to do so. Actually is recommended by several people. It's recommended to put an air stone in the bottom of it though.


If you use RO, then yes, you'll need a mineralizer. Going the RO route, you can better control the parameters of the tank than if using tap water where the parameters may differ. I can attest to this as we go into winter and get more rain and snow. Tap usually reads ~50 TDS with 3-4 GH and KH. Right now, it's more like 40 TDS with 2-3 GH and KH. (they read the same - currently closer to 2 than it is 3, but not quite 2)


Right now, I'm mixing soft tap water with hard tap water rather than remineralizing it. Basically, the same, in essence.


It would probably be a wise decision to consider RO. It can be bought for 28-50 cents a gallon from stores, or you can buy an RO unit if you don't already have one... They might be as cheap as $50 from Amazon.


Once the cycle is done, then you can do a 100% water change with the correct parameters for the shrimp you plan on keeping. If you go the RO route, make sure to mix the water up before adding it into the tank. You'd want to do an 80% or more water change anyway after the cycle is finished. 



Depending on what types of rocks you are using, it could be causing your parameters to change. If you don't know for sure, take them out of the tank and allow them to dry. Once dry, drip some vinegar on them. If the vinegar does nothing, the rocks are inert. If the vinegar fizzes, then the rocks are causing your parameters to change, which could be an issue for your tank.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> You don't need to do a water change until after the cycle is complete.
> 
> 
> I got ammonia from Ace Hardware for the last cycle I did. Main thing is to get clear ammonia that doesn't get soapy when it is shaken. If it gets sudsy, it's not safe to use.
> ...




Once the cycle is done, then you can do a 100% water change with the correct parameters for the shrimp you plan on keeping. If you go the RO route, make sure to mix the water up before adding it into the tank. You'd want to do an 80% or more water change anyway after the cycle is finished. 


Mix the ro water with what? So if ro do 80% water change?

100% if I do tap water? Would I have to cycle again? Lol sounds stupid but I'm wondering how 100% works...

So with ro how do I mineralized it?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Yes, with RO water, you would remineralize it. There are several different shrimp brands out there and it comes in liquid or powder form.

Salty Shrimp
SL-Aqua
Shrimp Nature
Shrimp King
Shrimp Lab
MK-Breed
etc


You only need one product, but the product you choose should depend on the type of shrimp you plan on keeping.


If you can remove the ammonia out of the tap water, you could use that for water changes. It should be noted though that products like Prime don't remove ammonia, it only makes it harmless for 24 to 48 hours. It is still available for your filter to process into nitrites and nitrates. If your filtration is working well, then it would have no problem removing the ammonia within that time period.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

So prime doesn't remove ammonia it just makes it harmless for 24-48hrs...my filter should get rid of ammonia by 48hrs...will my test be accurate? So there's no point of testing my tap before I put it in my tank since it has chloramines which makes the ammonia reading wrong? If I can use tap then I'll do that but if y'all think my tap is too harsh I'll do ro water. 

Any good cheap ro filter? I think imma use salty shrimp for mineralizing. And a tds tester

Should I Goto petsmart and buy some bacteria? Or just wait it out? 

When changing water 100% does that mess up my water cycle? 

Ro water change 80%?
Tap water 100%?


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Read this, follow these instructions:

From @Diana:


> Here is the fishless cycle.
> If you make sure the parameters are as follows the nitrifying bacteria will grow as fast as possible.
> 
> When the nitrifying bacteria are first introduced to a tank, such as from a bottle including Nitrospira species of bacteria, then there will be some bacteria in the water. Within a day or 2 these bacteria settle on to surfaces.
> ...


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

I agree with @Zoidburg , no need to do a water change at the moment.

Everyone's tap is different and contains different minerals, so it depends. Most stores will test water for you for free, so you can do that for gh/kh.

Do you have access to RO? That's definitely better than Tap. Depending on the species, you'll need a different remineralizer.

The ammonia from Ace works as well, forgot about that.

Yes, after dosing prime, wait 48 hours to get accurate results for testing.

Salty shrimp is perfect for Caradinia/crystals, if you want neos I'd go with Seachem equilibrium.

The bacteria only work if you have fish in the tank.

As long as the filter is kept intact, you can do a 100% water change without messing up the cycle.

Hope this helps, you are headed in the right direction! Awesome that you're doing your research, unlike a lot of other folks.



What type of shrimp are you thinking about? I'd recommend Neocardina to start with, such as cherries.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Ok so the point of cycling is to build bacterial. I bought a tds tester and that dr tims ammonium. I think I'm going to switch to ro water when my cycle is done. Guess I'll buy a cheap ro system. 

I guess I don't need prime if I'm switching to ro. 

During cycle do I had more water conditioner or do I just let it do its magic? 

My water heater will be here tomorrow should I bump the temp to 80? It's been at 60-65 I've read bacterial grows faster in warmer water and in the dark?

Thanks for all the help!


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

Yup, don't need prime, the conditioner you have you can keep as a backup.

Don't add any more water conditioner, your tank is fine.
Definitely set it to 80 when you get the heater!


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Ok thanks! I'll keep testing my water and keep ya posted!

Oh yeah one more question if I change to ro water after my tank cycles I have to do 100% water change?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

You don't need to do a 100% water change when changing to remineralized RO, but if you plan on using remineralized RO, you can indeed do a 100% change then.


Actually, if you want to give your shrimp the best chance of acclimating well, you could try matching the water parameters of the breeder, then slowly, over time and with pwc's, bring it to the level that you want the water parameters to be at. (if it's not the same as what the breeder uses)


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## phopf (Dec 17, 2016)

Just my two cents, but rather than remineralizing RO water, get the data for tap water in your area. It is almost certainly published on your city web site. You may be just fine as is, or you might need to bring up the hardness just a tad (and it is an easy calculation).


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> You don't need to do a 100% water change when changing to remineralized RO, but if you plan on using remineralized RO, you can indeed do a 100% change then.
> 
> 
> Actually, if you want to give your shrimp the best chance of acclimating well, you could try matching the water parameters of the breeder, then slowly, over time and with pwc's, bring it to the level that you want the water parameters to be at. (if it's not the same as what the breeder uses)


Ok. Cool

The kh and gh in ro water is zero? So do I need a kh gh tester? Api liquid tester ok?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Yes, you need GH/KH test kits. API is fine.


Once you get the hang of how much minerals to add to RO water to get to a desired GH, and how much TDS that is, you can kind of skip using the GH test kit for mixing up new water.


i.e. to get to a GH of 6, you'll end up with a TDS of ~160. Instead of testing new water every time, you can mix until you hit a TDS of about 160 for water changes.


Or if your target range is 200 TDS, but through feeding, waste and evaporation, the TDS rises to 220, you could do a PWC with water that has a TDS of 180 to help bring the TDS back down into the desired range.





It can be rather confusing at first, but once you get the hang of it, it's simple.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

phopf said:


> Just my two cents, but rather than remineralizing RO water, get the data for tap water in your area. It is almost certainly published on your city web site. You may be just fine as is, or you might need to bring up the hardness just a tad (and it is an easy calculation).


Ok let me try to find it.

Bump:


Zoidburg said:


> Yes, you need GH/KH test kits. API is fine.
> 
> 
> Once you get the hang of how much minerals to add to RO water to get to a desired GH, and how much TDS that is, you can kind of skip using the GH test kit for mixing up new water.
> ...


Oh that's pretty simple! I guess I can get ro from Walmart for now when my tank is ready. 

If I'm looking at crystal red and panda shrimps...what parameters I should try to aim for? Will the salty shrimp gh+ work just fine?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Here's a general guideline.... 


https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-dwarf-shrimp-water-parameters



although for caridinas like the ones you mentioned, it's usually recommended to keep them in "low pH" water, which usually requires a buffering substrate. If you can find out what your stable parameters are once the cycle is complete and you've remineralized, you may try looking for a breeder who keeps those two types in higher pH water. They can sometimes be hard to find, though...


The Salty Shrimp GH+ would be fine for them.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> Here's a general guideline....
> 
> 
> https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-dwarf-shrimp-water-parameters
> ...



So my eco complete isn't good for shrimp huh?

With ro water I can set the ph or is that just gh and kh?


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

My cholla wood just came in can I put it in while it cycles? Do I need to boil them?


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

I think the eco complete is fine.

Cholla Wood and Indian Almond lower the ph, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I just rinse them and place the cholla in, they'll take a day or so to sink.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

TropicalAquarist said:


> I think the eco complete is fine.
> 
> Cholla Wood and Indian Almond lower the ph, so I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> I just rinse them and place the cholla in, they'll take a day or so to sink.



I see. What about ro water can you adjust ph?

Bump:


phopf said:


> Just my two cents, but rather than remineralizing RO water, get the data for tap water in your area. It is almost certainly published on your city web site. You may be just fine as is, or you might need to bring up the hardness just a tad (and it is an easy calculation).


I can't seem to find anything on my city's water


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Eco complete is fine for Neos and some tigers, but for many other Caridinas, it wont cut it, unless you either plan on replacing it, or rigging up the tank with a hang on breeder box that pumps water through the breeder box and placing a buffering substrate in the box to lower the pH of the tank. The breeder box would also need to be modified so shrimp can't get in it.


With RO water, you can set the GH and/or KH of the water. With no KH in the water, it is possible for RO water to read anywhere from 5 pH to 8 pH. If there's nothing to buffer the pH to the acidic side in the tank (and tannins alone may not do the job), then it could easily read a pH of 7 or higher.


Boiling leaves and wood is about safety. It helps to sterilize the item to make sure it's clean before going into the tank. Some people use it to get rid of tannins or to make an item sink faster. It's up to you if you want to stick it straight in or clean it first.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> Eco complete is fine for Neos and some tigers, but for many other Caridinas, it wont cut it, unless you either plan on replacing it, or rigging up the tank with a hang on breeder box that pumps water through the breeder box and placing a buffering substrate in the box to lower the pH of the tank. The breeder box would also need to be modified so shrimp can't get in it.
> 
> 
> With RO water, you can set the GH and/or KH of the water. With no KH in the water, it is possible for RO water to read anywhere from 5 pH to 8 pH. If there's nothing to buffer the pH to the acidic side in the tank (and tannins alone may not do the job), then it could easily read a pH of 7 or higher.
> ...



Damn that sucks. Can this subsets be transfer to a different tank for like disc and angels? 

What's a good substrate for crs pandas king kongs blue bolt? A substrate so I can have more choices of shrimps. Don't seem like I have much of a choice with eco complete. 

Can I change all this out without recycling?

I wish I would've don't more research before I bought everything


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Well, Neos do come in all sorts of colors.... red, blue, green, yellow, black, rili, etc. Tangerine tigers and orange eyed blue tigers should also do fine in the same parameters.


There are some breeders who do keep Caradinas in higher pH water, but for best chance of success, you really do need a buffering substrate... Fluval Stratum, ADA, SL-Aqua, Up-Aqua, ControSoil, GlasGarten, Azoo... I see many people use SL-Aqua and ADA lately. ADA does leach ammonia though, which can cause a longer cycle.


Something to keep in mind... if you want to keep different colors of shrimp, depending on what you mix can depend on whether or not the two can successfully breed together. Neos and Caridinas can't breed together, but several Caradinas can. Generally speaking, Neos don't do well in Caridina parameters, and Caradinas don't do well in Neo parameters. It is possible to have both in one tank, although one usually out-competes the other and tends to thrive better. Tigers are one of the few exceptions to this rule, kind of.... although they do prefer a higher protein diet than Neos do.


If you keep mixed Neos, be prepared to cull undesired offspring from the tank.


If you keep mixed Caridinas, be prepared for any number of possible offspring. (depending on what you keep together) Just because you may end up with some undesirable looking shrimp doesn't mean that those shrimp can't produce some extraordinary offspring.




You can move the substrate to another tank if you want. You may not need to recycle using a buffering substrate, unless you get ADA which will leach ammonia, regardless of whether or not the tank is already cycled. If a tank is already fully cycled, then changing the substrate [to something that doesn't leech ammonia] should only result, at max, a "mini cycle". That is, parameters may be off for up to a few days, but once everything settles, you should be good to go. Most of the beneficial bacteria should be in the filter anyway, but it will also grow on the sides of the aquarium, on any plants and decorations and in/on the substrate as well. Removing any of that bacteria can potentially offset the balance of the tank, but it should not cause it to go into a full cycle.



-----


As a side note, why not keep this tank the way it is and put Neos and/or tigers into it?


With some more research, you could set up a separate tank for other Caridina species you'd like to keep?


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> Well, Neos do come in all sorts of colors.... red, blue, green, yellow, black, rili, etc. Tangerine tigers and orange eyed blue tigers should also do fine in the same parameters.
> 
> 
> There are some breeders who do keep Caradinas in higher pH water, but for best chance of success, you really do need a buffering substrate... Fluval Stratum, ADA, SL-Aqua, Up-Aqua, ControSoil, GlasGarten, Azoo... I see many people use SL-Aqua and ADA lately. ADA does leach ammonia though, which can cause a longer cycle.
> ...


Wow thanks for all the info!

Well I wanted some wine red or crs or pandas. I guess I'll take a look at tigers and neos. Didn't know if they were popular shrimps or not. I guess it would save me some money just to leave it like it is. Maybe later get another tank for the Caridinas.

Will driftwood help lower ph enough for caridinas?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Neos are actually pretty popular because they are cheap and come in a wide range of colors. They are also easier to keep, which means that more people would be interested in keeping them since they act as a clean-up crew.


Caridinas tend to be more expensive and harder to keep. This typically means that they are less desirable for community tanks, as they would be more expensive to replace if fish were preying on them.


It's generally not recommended to keep these kinds of dwarf shrimp in community tanks to begin with, but that's not to say that it can't be done. In a community tank, some thought and preparation should be done to ensure that a healthy colony can survive.



Many people actually recommend keeping Neos (or sometimes Tigers) as beginner shrimp since they tend to be less picky about water parameters. Some people may even find that keeping shrimp is an entirely different ballpark to keeping fish. A lot of people who keep fish (and ghost shrimp and amano shrimp) don't often pay attention to TDS, GH and KH parameters. A lot of people who keep Neos may not even pay attention to those paramters either and end up lucky. (not me! and I use the same water as what the local breeder uses! the difference? Our tank parameters aren't the same, despite having the same water source!) When you get into the different types of Caridinas, it's kind of important to know.

If you stick with low end Caridinas, it may not matter that much. (depends on breeder/line) When you get into higher end (aka "higher quality" shrimp), it is important. It could come down to a difference of living vs thriving. Just because they aren't dead doesn't necessarily mean that they are thriving... with the right parameters, they will not only thrive, but will reproduce, and the young shrimp will grow into adults.


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

+1 to everything posted above! I'd definitely start with neos/tigers, much easier and hardy. 

In that case you will not need a gh raiser, but rather something that raises gh and kh...
I use Seachem equilibrium (good for plants as well).


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Re: pH


Although tannins from driftwood or other sources may help to lower the pH, I would not count on it as a good source of lowering the pH. I had a temporary tank set up. Bare bottom tank with driftwood, alder cones and indian almond leaves. All have the potential to release tannins. The tank water was orange! Still had a higher pH reading... Granted, I also used Ebi-ken Sosei. From the information about the product, it sounds like it's supposed to make the water more acidic, but I'm not entirely sure that it did....


If you want lower pH, then stick with a buffering substrate and remineralized RO. Stay away from anything that ads KH to that tank *UNLESS* the pH is too low. Most buffering substrates will buffer the water to good pH values, so this normally isn't an issue.


There are some "Black Water" products on the market that may help to lower the pH, but it also stains the water. (the same as anything else that can release tannins into the water) Some people are ok with this, others aren't. I would only recommend using "Black Water" for it's benefits to the inhabitants of the tank rather than the potential to lower the pH.




Do stay clear of any products that are geared towards specifically raising or lowering the pH. These have the potential to cause more harm than good. I have some and honestly, not satisfied with the results. From what I've seen, they do not result in stable parameters, and do raise the TDS of the tank. When dealing with sensitive shrimp, high TDS is not a good thing!


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> Re: pH
> 
> 
> Although tannins from driftwood or other sources may help to lower the pH, I would not count on it as a good source of lowering the pH. I had a temporary tank set up. Bare bottom tank with driftwood, alder cones and indian almond leaves. All have the potential to release tannins. The tank water was orange! Still had a higher pH reading... Granted, I also used Ebi-ken Sosei. From the information about the product, it sounds like it's supposed to make the water more acidic, but I'm not entirely sure that it did....
> ...



Man you know your stuff! How long you been in this hobby?

I've decided to which substrate and throw away my eco. Imma do ro water. Do it right. Don't want to settle for something I don't want. 

So should I just start all over?

Bump:


TropicalAquarist said:


> +1 to everything posted above! I'd definitely start with neos/tigers, much easier and hardy.
> 
> In that case you will not need a gh raiser, but rather something that raises gh and kh...
> I use Seachem equilibrium (good for plants as well).


Thanks!


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Guess it would be a pain to take the substrate out and put the new one in with water in the tank? 

Whatever bacterial I have in the tank right now will it die without water?

Bump:


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Also is my 20inch finnex planted + 24/7 good enough for my 20gal plants and shrimps


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Teamshrimp said:


> Man you know your stuff! How long you been in this hobby?
> 
> I've decided to which substrate and throw away my eco. Imma do ro water. Do it right. Don't want to settle for something I don't want.
> 
> So should I just start all over?



Not very long, but I enjoy reading and researching.


As an experiment, I got a gallon of water straight from tap. pH read somewhere in the 6.8-7.2 range. I added Seachems Discus Buffer to it, which lowered the pH to 6.4. Aerated it overnight, it now reads 7.4 to 7.6. (looks a tad greener than 7.6 on the chart)

Straight from tap, the TDS was 35. After adding Discus Buffer, the TDS was at 60. If I keep adding Discus Buffer to lower the pH, I will continue to raise the TDS.


What exactly does Discus Buffer do to lower the pH? It removes calcium and magnesium from the water. Lack of calcium means that shrimp will die of failed molts. So, in order to prevent that, I need to add those back into the tank. The next thing that happens is that the TDS keeps rising and all I'm doing is creating pH swings which could be stressful.


Another option is peat. Peat moss or peat granules. Some people will have buckets or other large containers of water (i.e. trash bin) sitting around for their water changes. They'll drop in a sock of peat either near a pump or air stone so that water circulates through it. Peat releases humic acids into the water and also removes KH, thus lowering the pH.


Wood, leaves and cones will leach tannins into the water, which can make the water tea colored. If you don't keep a fresh supply of wood, leaves or cones in the tank, the leaching properties of these items can lower over time and may even stop releasing tannins. Add in water changes with "clean" water (i.e. no tannins), and the pH wont remain the same.


If you start out with a buffering substrate which lowers the pH, that's already saving you a lot of hassle! If you do it right, no concern about a swing in pH. You can have clear water and see your shrimp well! Or you could still add in wood, leaves and cones. In lower pH, these degrade slower, so it's possible to use them without staining the water.



As an example, found a couple of setups of black water tanks with shrimp. (not many people keep shrimp in tannin enriched water...)

Fish Tank Blog: 5 Gallon Blackwater Cherry Shrimp Tank
Example No 29137 from the category invertebrates


In comparison to clear water tanks...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/KharmaKazi/4ftShrimpTankRH22-11-09.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3498013737_ed8788b881_b.jpg



Not to beat a dead horse or anything, I just wanted to explain some points further.



As far as starting over, just switch out the substrate. You still need to cycle the tank with ammonia, and you can use tap (if low KH) or pure RO during the cycle. Once the cycle is over, remineralized RO.

Bump:


Teamshrimp said:


> Guess it would be a pain to take the substrate out and put the new one in with water in the tank?
> 
> Whatever bacterial I have in the tank right now will it die without water?



You can remove enough water into another container to put your filter rocks and plants in. This will help keep your bacteria alive. Switch out the substrate, then add them back in.


I would recommend double checking your rocks though and making sure they are inert. If they are slate, they are fine, but if they are seiryu stone or something similar, remove them. If you dry the rocks out and add vinegar and nothing happens, they are fine. If the rocks fizz, don't use them.



The light is fine.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> Not very long, but I enjoy reading and researching.
> 
> 
> As an experiment, I got a gallon of water straight from tap. pH read somewhere in the 6.8-7.2 range. I added Seachems Discus Buffer to it, which lowered the pH to 6.4. Aerated it overnight, it now reads 7.4 to 7.6. (looks a tad greener than 7.6 on the chart)
> ...


Ok so when I move everything to a container so I reuse that water? 

Filling the tank back up should I use ro or tap? If I'm planning on using ro? Don't chlorine in the tap kill bacteria? I guess I would need prime if I used tap? 
Ro water I would need to order some mineralizing stuff? I think you said salty shrimp gh + is good for the shrimps I want? 

Debating on what substrate to get now. I know you listed a few but what would you choose for shrimps and some plants?

Thanks a lot


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

When you move everything over to a container while you switch out the substrate, you can reuse the same water.

If you use tap, yes you need a dechlorinator.


When cycling a tank, it doesn't necessarily matter what water you use (as long as it doesn't contain copper, lead or rust or has high KH values when using a buffering substrate) since you'll be doing a water change anyway at the end of the cycle.


There are a lot of different GH+ remineralizers out there for shrimp. Just about any geared towards shrimp would be fine. There are liquid and powder versions and each has it's own pros and cons.



If I were to choose a buffering substrate, I would most likely go with SL-Aqua. I've heard a lot of great things about it, and see many people prefer it over ADA. Well, people who have used both, most prefer SL-Aqua from what I've seen. A few prefer ADA instead, or have no preference one way or the other.

There are also other buffering substrates out there as well. I tried looking for some sites that compare different soils...

aquasoils - 10+ of alternatives to ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia
https://cripticthoughts.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/shrimp-soil-and-substrate-choices/
Four Best Substrate Types For The Planted Aquarium - Fish Tank Advisor
The Best Planted Tank Substrates - Aquarium Info


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Thanks!

Just tested my tds in my tank it's 361 
My tap is 323

Gh kh kit comes tomorrow


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Somewhat hard water. Not ideal for caridinas but Neos could get accustomed to that, if you ever choose to keep them.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Should I change the substrate asap or can I wait til it cycles a little


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Might as well change the substrate as soon as you get it.


You can still make sure that the tank is fully cycled by adding some ammonia, and if it's processed within 24 into nitrates, you're good to go!


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

I would change the substrate as soon as you can since you will be loosing some bacteria with it.
The problem with ADA is the ammonia leaching it has for weeks. Your tank will take a long time till it is safe for shrimp, so I'd go with the SL-Aqua or Brightwell aquasoil.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Sl aqua it is!

My dr tims ammonium isn't in yet so yesterday I put some fish flakes in and it went up .50 so it's at 1ppm. 

Question about my heater...it's a finnex hmo150...
It's on max but my tank temp is at 80 but the heater is at 90...I figure 150 watts is plenty for a 20gal... it's barely hitting 80 in the tank...I turned it down to 85 when it hit 80...after a few hrs my tank was at 73...is this normal?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I use a 75w Eheims in a 20g high. No problems. 50w Eheim in a 10 gallon. Both remain pretty stable.


I don't have any experience with the Finnex heaters, but those temps do seem off...


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> I use a 75w Eheims in a 20g high. No problems. 50w Eheim in a 10 gallon. Both remain pretty stable.
> 
> 
> I don't have any experience with the Finnex heaters, but those temps do seem off...



I guess I'll wait and see if it'll stable. If not I guess imma look for another one.


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

Teamshrimp said:


> I guess I'll wait and see if it'll stable. If not I guess imma look for another one.




If it doesn't settle, contact finnex! They have excellent customer service, their heaters are top notch! Maybe it's a faulty one...


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## TropicalAquarist (Jun 9, 2015)

If it's not stable, maybe it's a faulty one. Finnex is usually top notch with heaters.

I'd set the heater to 78 max or else the tank will evaporate like crazy, with no lid and the dryness in the winter...

Eventually you won't need a heater as the shrimp you selected prefer temps from 65-72(colder is better).


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

TropicalAquarist said:


> If it's not stable, maybe it's a faulty one. Finnex is usually top notch with heaters.
> 
> I'd set the heater to 78 max or else the tank will evaporate like crazy, with no lid and the dryness in the winter...
> 
> Eventually you won't need a heater as the shrimp you selected prefer temps from 65-72(colder is better).


Ok I moved the heater to the center of tank now it's better...I set at 84 and it holds the tank at 80.5 so it's off by a little. Better than when I had it in the corner set at 90 and it was only 80.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

My tank is getting cloudy? And I have worms in my tank? Any ideas


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Cloudy could be from stuff getting stirred up or it could be a bacterial bloom. In either case, it just needs time to settle.


As far as worms.... there's nematodes, flat worms or planaria. (the top 3 types of worms often found in aquariums) Depending on type would depend on whether or not you need to do anything. If it's the former two, you don't need to do anything. If it's the latter one, it would be a good idea to nuke the tank with Fenbendazole (dog or goat dewormer), No Planaria or Planario Zero.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> Cloudy could be from stuff getting stirred up or it could be a bacterial bloom. In either case, it just needs time to settle.
> 
> 
> As far as worms.... there's nematodes, flat worms or planaria. (the top 3 types of worms often found in aquariums) Depending on type would depend on whether or not you need to do anything. If it's the former two, you don't need to do anything. If it's the latter one, it would be a good idea to nuke the tank with Fenbendazole (dog or goat dewormer), No Planaria or Planario Zero.


The nuke won't hurt the tank or shrimp?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Would harm snails, but plants and shrimp should be fine.


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> Would harm snails, but plants and shrimp should be fine.


Ok. Cool imma have to look up the worms here's a picture


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Checked my nitrite it's at 5 ppm


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## Teamshrimp (Dec 18, 2016)

Ph 8.0
Ammonia 1,0
Nitrite 5,0 maxed 
Nitrate 20 

My ammonias been the same. Nitrite and nitrate were at 0. So does this mean my tank is almost done

What do I do guys? my dr tims ammonium just came in should I use it? Do a water change? Should I bump the ammonia to 4?


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