# Root tabs and inert substrate



## K1963158 (Aug 15, 2016)

Considering to use pool filter sand on a new set up. Been reading up on using root tabs and whatnot but still have this question:

*If I plan to dose the water column with all nutrients NPK and Micros then is it necessary to use root tabs?*

The lighting on the tank will be medium-lowish and CO2 injected. 

Plants will be an assortment of crypts, swords, vals, ferns and anubias. 

Cheers


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

No, you should be fine.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Smooch said:


> No, you should be fine.


Yep, never found a 'real' need for tabs if your dosing the water column. @burr740 did a nice little experiment detailing this somewhere on TPT. If your going to be scaping the tank and moving things around it's also better not to have anything in the substrate that will make a mess when disturbed.


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## K1963158 (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks that's what I thought but you always read that you should use root tabs for "heavy root feeders"


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

K1963158 said:


> Thanks that's what I thought but you always read that you should use root tabs for "heavy root feeders"


The heavy root feeder thing is pretty much a myth. Believe me, when there's food in the water column they open their mouths to eat.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> Yep, never found a 'real' need for tabs if your dosing the water column. @burr740 did a nice little experiment detailing this somewhere on TPT. If your going to be scaping the tank and moving things around it's also better not to have anything in the substrate that will make a mess when disturbed.


Speaking from my own experience after playing around with my emersed tank, buying healthy plants to begin with makes a world of difference. 

I always had problems with crypts melting and assumed it was 'normal' because it is said to be. After growing some out on my own, then planting them in a tank, I've since found out that the melting is not normal. The problem is when I order plants. The leaves are healthy, but they have 5 or less roots. Plants that I pull from my emersed tank have lots of roots and are not bothered by the transition. 

I planted the crypt posted below in my 10 gallon. It dropped the one wonky leaf on the right and hasn't lost anymore since then. It's all in the roots, literally.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

houseofcards said:


> Yep, never found a 'real' need for tabs if your dosing the water column. @*burr740* did a nice little experiment detailing this somewhere on TPT.


Here's the thread - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/33-plants/876457-so-called-heavy-root-feeders-fact-fiction.html

Not sure it really proves anything, but the results were interesting.


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## K1963158 (Aug 15, 2016)

@burr740

Thanks for providing the link. That one eluded me in all my research searches. I'm not opposed to root tabs or to "juice up" a substrate but I plan on doing a lot of replanting so don't want a mess.

I can breath easy now about using PFS. Thanks


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## PortalMasteryRy (Oct 16, 2012)

No. Root tabs IMHO opinion is risky if you have no experience with it or if you plan to mess with the substrate a lot. If you know how to setup a dosing pump properly and is willing to spend time testing the water parameters then you can have a nice lush planted tank. 

Here is a picture of my 29g tank with Petco's fine black sand. The kicker is that the sand is only 1 inch tall and I have 3 diffusers injecting CO2 at the back. I have a dwarf sword, erio parkeri and another type of erio growing. I even have a carpet of Marsilea (small version) growing that has Elatine Triandra growing on top of it. 










The key is good water chemistry, abundant CO2 and good lighting. I just dumped the Hydrocotyle tripartita you see on the right side of the tank after it grow 2 inches thick and planted 3 rhizomes back in the substrate. It should take only a few weeks to cover the area again. 

The dosing pump in this setup ensures consistent water parameters for NO3, PO4 and a regular dose of Fe. The only thing I manually dose are the micros which I dose 0.02 ppm Boron once a week if I remember it to dose it.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

PortalMasteryRy said:


> ... If you know how to setup a dosing pump properly and is willing to spend time testing the water parameters then you can have a nice lush planted tank...


Now we need dosing pumps to have a nice lush tank?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I have burnt plant's getting carried away with root tab's in inert substrates with the logic that if a little is good..then more is better.
Not unlike some do when medicating their tank's.
Tanks are now dirted, so I am stingier with root tab's and dose the water column more than loading the substrate.


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## PortalMasteryRy (Oct 16, 2012)

houseofcards said:


> Now we need dosing pumps to have a nice lush tank?


Yes and No. With the dosing pump you dose daily at the same time and keep your water parameters consistent just like your CO2. You can do it manually but for some people like me, automating the fertilization of the water column is just easier. Also daily dosing makes parameter testing a little more accurate since you dose the same time every day which means the nutrient levels at a certain time of the day can be tested for consistency. If you test for PO4 and NO3 levels say at the end of photo period and you dose daily at the beginning of the day then the test results should yield almost the same levels every day. If you test on a weekly basis then you'll know if your PO4 and NO3 levels are dropping or increasing. Once you figure that out then you adjust your dosing pump accordingly. This eliminates any issues with fluctuating PO4 and NO3 which should leave you with just the Micro nutrients to deal with.

You can repeat the process for 3-4 weeks until the levels are pretty much consistent on every test. After this you'll get a better understanding of the nutrients levels and how to tweak them properly.

Again good water chemistry is one component to owning a successful planted tank. The dosing pump is simply a tool or device that helps us with it.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Seem's to me to be a lot of adjusting dosing pump for increased plant mass,decreased plant mass,heavy trimming,big water changes,increase in feeding's or decrease assuming fishes are present.(nutrient's in fish food's)
These variable would be ever changing no? resulting in too much tweaking for my taste but to each their own.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

roadmaster said:


> Seem's to me to be a lot of adjusting dosing pump for increased plant mass,decreased plant mass,heavy trimming,big water changes,increase in feeding's or decrease assuming fishes are present.(nutrient's in fish food's)
> These variable would be ever changing no? resulting in too much tweaking for my taste but to each their own.


Wow roadmaster. You took the words right out of my mouth.

If you want to get that exact the levels would be changing every day based on what roadmaster stated, which pretty much proves my point. That you don't need exact dosing. When someone manually doses and uses a set amount they are not dosing according to the exact NPK levels. That's why EI is an Estimative Index. There is irrefutable proof that you don't need exact dosing you simply don't want to run short of something. To test daily/weekly to make sure and adjust your dosing that destroys any convenience the pump gives IMO

There's nothing wrong with using a dosing pump. Just a statement like this is simply not true.



PortalMasteryRy said:


> ... If you know how to setup a dosing pump properly and is willing to spend time testing the water parameters then you can have a nice lush planted tank...


There's simply too many hobbyists on here with outstanding long-term tanks and the vast majority are not using dosing pumps.


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## PortalMasteryRy (Oct 16, 2012)

I am in no way saying that a dosing pump is a requirement in this hobby. I simply treat it as a tool and I think it is an amazing tool that helped me achieve consistent water parameters which provides me what I think are my ideal parameters for growing a nice lush planted tank. As an added bonus, I no longer measure and worry about dosing ferts. I simply set and forget (after proper calibration)! 

*While most of the people here are still playing with their tank's water chemistry, I am now way past that stage.* How did I do it? Well because I figured out how to keep my parameters stable using a dosing pump that feeds calibrated doses of NO3, PO4 and Fe plus I have access to a photometer (Hanna HI-83200) that help me test and lock in my water parameters. All of this to give me good water chemistry which in turn yields a nice planted tank. 

I also would like to state I do not use EI. Not everyone uses it. I don't like doing a ton of water changes and I am able to do that because my NO3 and my PO4 levels are kept consistent by my dosing pumps. I don't have very high levels or NO3 and PO4 at the end of week hence I don't need to do the water change. I also run with lower micro nutrient dosing except for Fe from Fe Gluconate which I still happily dose everyday. 

Everyone is free to use whatever methods or approach to help get them the results they want. I'm merely stating some information based on my experience that may or may not help other people.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

I tried root tabs a few years ago with inert substrate and didn't see any better results than when just dosing the water column. If you're interested in substrate fertilization I would think using something like Aquasoil or MTS would be the way to go. 

It seems that I've read somewhere in the past that the main purpose of roots on aquatic plants is to anchor the plant, plants with larger root systems are generally found in swifter waters. You do have nutrient uptake through the roots, but it's no more than you have through the leaves. The plants don't have a preference.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

PortalMasteryRy said:


> I am in no way saying that a dosing pump is a requirement in this hobby. I simply treat it as a tool and *I think it is an amazing tool that helped me achieve consistent water parameters which provides me what I think are my ideal parameters for growing a nice lush planted tank. As an added bonus, I no longer measure and worry about dosing ferts*. I simply set and forget (after proper calibration)
> .


The only reason I even responded to your post was because you said _"If you know how to setup a dosing pump properly and is willing to spend time testing the water parameters then you can have a nice lush planted tank"_

That sounds like a requirement for a lush planted tank which we all know is not true. Look at all the lush tanks here, in contests, etc. what percent do you think use a dosing pump? 

When you dose ferts whether it's EI or some other method the reason you dose maybe 3 times a week NPK is because the plants are using it up, so the water parameters are constantly changing and your dosing so they don't run short. *So if stable parameters where necessary to have a lush tank everyone who dosed EI, ADA, and other routine where you dose every few days as the plants use up the macros and the parameters change would have unhealthy plants and algae. * There is simply no truth to needing constant NPK levels. You simply need them available for the plants. 

Again nothing wrong with using a dosing pump, but it's not nnecessary as are alot of other things in the hobby.

I think your missing something about EI type dosing as well. Because your dosing in excess you really don't need to test these levels once your get a hold on things. The idea is your dosing enough as not to run short of something. I never test my water parameters. Testing water parameters takes more effort than throwing some powder in your water in an estimative dose.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Jeff5614 said:


> I tried root tabs a few years ago with inert substrate and didn't see any better results than when just dosing the water column. If you're interested in substrate fertilization I would think using something like Aquasoil or MTS would be the way to go.
> 
> It seems that I've read somewhere in the past that the main purpose of roots on aquatic plants is to anchor the plant, plants with larger root systems are generally found in swifter waters. You do have nutrient uptake through the roots, but it's no more than you have through the leaves. The plants don't have a preference.


 
I believe plant's do better for ME with both substrate fertilizer and water column also.
Is win/win.IMHO


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

When I dose the water column ferts flow through the substrate and feed the roots. When I add root caps to the substrate they dissolve and dose the whole water column. In my tanks I can't seem to separate the water that's flowing through the substrate from the rest of the water in the tank. It just always seems to mix together, so I just pour it in from one bucket and let it mix. How do you guys keep your root ferts and water column ferts separate after you put them in the tank together?


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