# 300 Gallon Planted Tank



## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I've been keeping reef tanks on and off for the past 19 years...some more successfully than others. Two years ago I had to tear down my tank as my family was moving to the suburbs with the intent to build our forever house. I posted on here about the design of tank (https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1278953-plumbing-question.html#post11108493) but failed to keep up with posting any updates. Hopefully I'll do better with this thread. 



I told my wife she could pick basically everything but I wanted a 300 gallon peninsula style tank with a basement sump room. (OK - I also had two other requirements - a garage with a lift and radiant heat.) And so we began...


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

We moved into the house a few months ago and am finally settled enough to begin working on the tank. I still need to buy equipment but it's always good to start making the tank look a little better so bought some spider wood to begin working on the hard scape. 


My tank was designed as a peninsula tank with a coast to coast overflow. The return feeds in from the opposite side pushing the water across the tank. 

I'm going to make a spray bar for the return. As it's on the end of the tank I've ordered some clear food grade pvc pipe to make it with. I was going to try and make it out of acrylic tube but could not find any with the correct diameter for the plumbing. 

I bought enough to plumb it so that either the spray bar can spray out at the top of the tank or plumb it to the bottom so that it shoots out across the bottom of the tank. I thought this might be better to not off-gas CO2. 

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions on plumbing it at the top of the water line vs at the bottom of the tank? I would have to drill one hole at the water line no matter what as a siphon break.


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## Hamsnacks (Jun 27, 2018)

This is going to be one badass piece in your living room. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Following for sure.


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## Mickey (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm sure this will end up being spectacular. You may want to rethink the clear PVC/acrylic. I tried that once when I did a closed loop for flow with clear PVC at multiple outputs to try to blend them in and they grew algae real well. If you stick with it be sure to have a plan for frequent cleaning.

Mickey


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Mickey said:


> I'm sure this will end up being spectacular. You may want to rethink the clear PVC/acrylic. I tried that once when I did a closed loop for flow with clear PVC at multiple outputs to try to blend them in and they grew algae real well. If you stick with it be sure to have a plan for frequent cleaning.
> 
> Mickey


I would have to concur with this observation, I've used clear reinforced flex tubing and it's brown with gunk growing inside it. That's even with minimal light exposure too. 

Can't wait to see how this all turns out!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Thanks for the observations about the clear PVC. The bulkhead is threaded so I can always switch it out to loc-line if need be. 

I'm going to do the sump in the basement. By my calculation I have about 15-16 head pressure. I was planning on using an Iwaki 70 or 100 RLT. What are most people running for turnover in their tanks? In reef tanks we always wanted as much flow as possible but I know that is not the case for planted tanks. 

Lighting I am planning on 3 kessil A360x Tuna Sun. They are rated for a 36 by 36 tank with moderate plantings. I can always add more or strip lighting in the future if I need more light. I had the older Tuna Blue's on my reef tank and really liked them.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Slowly making progress...upstairs plumbing is done. Bought the kessils for lighting and a 75 gallon tank for the sump in the basement.

























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## Mike00726 (May 23, 2011)

You are a total badass. That is all.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Holy Smokes NASA could use a guy like you!!!:grin2:

That's a lot of dedication to drill through the wood floor. 

Can't wait to see what's next.


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## Matt69 (Jul 9, 2017)

I’m watching looks great


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

That shark in the tank! Love it!! LOL Gotta have some sort of life in there!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I was able to get some work on it done today. The CO2 reactor:
















The sump table and return plumbing:























And a quick water test of the overflow box and plumbing in the wall:











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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

what awesomeness. i'm seriously curious if that "little" cerges can provide enough co2 for that huge 300g! following for sure.


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## Crazyjayb (Jan 9, 2020)

ipkiss said:


> what awesomeness. i'm seriously curious if that "little" cerges can provide enough co2 for that huge 300g! following for sure.


I was thinking the same. OP, maybe build a larger reactor?


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## Crazyjayb (Jan 9, 2020)

Wow, I am jealous. This is going to be an amazing tank. Looking forward to following along on your journey with that swimming pool.

Any ETA for when it will be filled?


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Crazyjayb said:


> I was thinking the same. OP, maybe build a larger reactor?


not necessarily, and im actually hoping to find out through this build, the capacity of a well tuned cerges.  To start, i suspect he can introduce some back pressure to help with dissolution, but that brings along its own plumbing issues, etc.

edit: actually, i just realized that the water has to go up a floor! thats plenty of built in pressurization! very very interesting. but the cerges has a very limited sized opening. is it on a bypass line?


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## Crazyjayb (Jan 9, 2020)

ipkiss said:


> Crazyjayb said:
> 
> 
> > I was thinking the same. OP, maybe build a larger reactor?
> ...


I hadn't even thought about that... Your right he probably can do something with that.. this tank just gets more interesting


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## vikinglord13 (Nov 24, 2019)

I'm following.

This cerges thing is fascinating for me. Dosing CO2 and fertilizer to "prevent" algae growth is new to me so I'm always fascinated to see different methods for doing both.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

fftfk said:


> I was able to get some work on it done today. The CO2 reactor:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just finding this build now, and subscribed. Looks to be a fun journey ahead.

Curious to see how the cerges does. I run the same size on my 75 gallon and it works great. I wonder if you will need to go to the 20" vs. 10" housing? 

Great start!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I definitely got off to a slow start due to stress/costs associated with moving into a new house! Ordering window treatments put me back two months of the build alone!! 

However, I’m working as fast as I can on it now. I hoped to have more of the sump room done this weekend but between the fumes in the non- ventilated room and a few walls of the sump being the wrong size has put me on pause for today. 

As for the size of the cerges reactor. I’m not sure. This is my first planted tank. I don’t think a longer one would help any as you really need more surface area for gas exchange. Maybe a larger diameter one? I bought a nano pump and a set of waterproof cable glands to put a pump in the reactor to increase surface agitation if needed. 

The cerges is going to be a closed loop into
And out of the sump. I will have a pump pumping water from the sump into the reactor the return will be plumbed to return right into the mail return pump chamber. 

The sump will be sealed as much as possible. 




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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Grobbins48 said:


> Curious to see how the cerges does. I run the same size on my 75 gallon and it works great. I wonder if you will need to go to the 20" vs. 10" housing?


Yeah I have been wondering the same thing. I run a 20" housing on my 120G and all CO2 fully dissolved.

That being said I have no idea how this will work with this tank, but look forward to finding out.


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## PurdueGK (May 16, 2015)

Really nice start!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Activity always gets me excited on new setups! 

If you need to go with a larger reactor one day, hit me up, I did a DIY PVC Griggs reactor, which I believe I did 4" PVC, that's 4' tall. I've put a TON of CO2 through it out of curiosity and never saw any bubbles escape, granted I suddenly gassed my fish, so the test wasn't very long LOL 

Here's a link to my thread of what I made. IMO if I were to redo it, I'd go 1" vs 3/4" tubing for getting a higher flow rate, as I later put a UV filter inline to it which cut back my flow. 
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...nal-updated-11-05-2019-a-12.html#post10890249


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## mboley (Jan 26, 2018)

fftfk said:


> I bought enough to plumb it so that either the spray bar can spray out at the top of the tank or plumb it to the bottom so that it shoots out across the bottom of the tank. I thought this might be better to not off-gas CO2.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts/opinions on plumbing it at the top of the water line vs at the bottom of the tank? I would have to drill one hole at the water line no matter what as a siphon break.


Yet another former reef aquarist switching to freshwater. As one myself, I'll predict you'll find it just as rewarding and instant gratification compared to a reef. Welcome.

Regarding your flow I wouldn't put a spray bar at the bottom, it's not going to help with off gassing; that's going to happen anyway with the overflow and fall to your sump. Plus the flow on the bottom will be blocked by decorations and plants eventually. My recommendation is to create a circular flow versus top to bottom. I would put a wide output pipe on two diagonal corners to create that flow. This also makes sense because you have a peninsula tank and I assume your plants and decor will be somewhat centered for viewing on both sides.

Regarding your preferred lights, since your tank looks like it's in your living room or den, are you sure you want to deal with all the spill-over light that comes with three round pendants? Rectangular pendants or two low profile T5 or LED fixtures would help minimize that. 

And congratulations on talking your wife into letting you drill through the floor. Well done ; )


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Awesome build! 

Maybe I missed it, but you might want to consider plumbing for water changes. I setup a 180 a couple years. Here's the link to the build. I need to update my journal desperately because the scape looks nothing like it was in the beginning. 

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1255746-180-gallon-all-bells-whistles.html

I drilled the tank down as low as I could and plumbed to the waste drain of the house with a ball valve to to drain the tank. There's also a water supply going to the sumps that I use to refill the tank. Turn a valve, the tank drains, turn another valve and turn the pumps back on and the tank fills up. I have a quick disconnect tap teed into that same drain with another ball valve for a gravel vacuum for the occasional vacuuming. I also have a float valve in the sumps with a water supply for evaporation. 

Just a few things to think about to make maintenance easier.

The reactor i built is in the link of the build also. Mine is a closed loop system also like you're designing. It works great. 

Looks like you know what you're doing, but feel free to ask questions.

Awesome job!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

jbvamos said:


> Awesome build!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for reminding me! I added a drain line to my tank!


















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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I made a good amount of progress this President’s day weekend. I added a drain line (pictures above), finished the sump, and made progress on the plumbing. I’m hoping for a water test next weekend.

My sump is going to be a fluidized bed using K1. I used an idea from the king of DIY and drilled a bunch of holes in the entrance panel and exit panel to hopefully push water up through the moving bed. I used a kit by Exotic Marine Systems comprised of acrylic panels and modified to fit my needs. I know using acrylic and glass isn’t the greatest idea but I’m hoping I used enough silicon and support panels to make it work. 





































































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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Did someone say k1????











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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Started on the cover for the sump...hopefully it doesn’t warp too bad.

























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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Edit


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> Started on the cover for the sump...hopefully it doesn’t warp too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is the cover the clear plexiglass? If so I tied it on a 10g and it bowed pretty decently, see if you can get glass cut to size if it's not already glass. 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Is the cover the clear plexiglass? If so I tied it on a 10g and it bowed pretty decently, see if you can get glass cut to size if it's not already glass.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Shoot - that’s what I worried about. Time to find a glass cutter.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> Shoot - that’s what I worried about. Time to find a glass cutter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's also the double paned greenhouse plastic that as it's internally braced it shouldn't flex. 

Like this stuff. https://www.eplastics.com/TWINWALCL...a1Bb37xZ-mbTfGRdFWW-LXVMrU1CqcwQaAtW5EALw_wcB

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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

fftfk said:


> Thank you for reminding me! I added a drain line to my tank!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No problem, it's a must have for easy water changes IMO. 

I'm confused how having the drain in your sump is going to drain the tank though. Once the water level drops below the inlet of the overflow box, no more will drain. I would hope not anyway, because if it does and you ever have a power outage or pump failure, your tank will drain unwillingly. 

Looking good! Nice progress.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

jbvamos said:


> No problem, it's a must have for easy water changes IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I will just change the water in the sump. I can do it more than once if need be.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> There's also the double paned greenhouse plastic that as it's internally braced it shouldn't flex.
> 
> Like this stuff. https://www.eplastics.com/TWINWALCL...a1Bb37xZ-mbTfGRdFWW-LXVMrU1CqcwQaAtW5EALw_wcB
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




I thought about using that but was worried it would be too flimsy. The version I’ve seen at Home Depot is extremely flimsy but not sure if that is different stuff.

I also have the glass top for the tank I could modify. I was hoping to stay away from glass to avoid possible breakage.




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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Slight set back...I had the in wall piping done by the contractor when building the house. The people who painted the house used air sprayers and just sprayed the PVC pipes coming out of the wall. I tried to cement the pipe together but after more research decided the painted pvc was too weak of a connection so am going to redo the pipe work. 

Due to how closely the PVC is cut up the wall I had to special order pipe extender fittings online as neither HD, Lowe’s, Menards, nor the local plumbing supply store had them in stock. 

No water test this weekend.




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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

If you don't mind me asking, can you explain why you would run the return line all the way across the tank like that? Frankly kills what otherwise is a very nice aesthetic in my humble opinion. I feel like a tank like this would be a perfect candidate for a return right with the rest of the BA drain and a Maxspect Gyre pump just underneath the return pushing water along the length of the tank.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

TheUnseenHand said:


> If you don't mind me asking, can you explain why you would run the return line all the way across the tank like that? Frankly kills what otherwise is a very nice aesthetic in my humble opinion. I feel like a tank like this would be a perfect candidate for a return right with the rest of the BA drain and a Maxspect Gyre pump just underneath the return pushing water along the length of the tank.



The tank currently is just the support stand and tank. Cabinets are being made that will skin the support stand and provide a canopy that will hide all of the pipes. The only thing you should be able to see is the the black return nozzle when you bend down and look straight on. 

I figured this would work better to get clean water all the way to the end of the tank. I bought a maxspect Gyre for use just as you said but their largest size can only handle 1/2 thick glass/acrylic. Mine is 3/4 thick. 

I am planning on going with the large eco tech vortech but am open to suggestions as to other pumps.



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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

fftfk said:


> The tank currently is just the support stand and tank. Cabinets are being made that will skin the support stand and provide a canopy that will hide all of the pipes. The only thing you should be able to see is the the black return nozzle when you bend down and look straight on.
> 
> I figured this would work better to get clean water all the way to the end of the tank. I bought a maxspect Gyre for use just as you said but their largest size can only handle 1/2 thick glass/acrylic. Mine is 3/4 thick.
> 
> ...


Jebao DCP series pumps are amazing. They are DC, powerful and completely silent. To top it off they are cheap as hell. They have a size to fit whatever need you could possibly have. Fully controllable with the speed control, no need to be adjusting gate valves to get the flow you want. Mine have been running for 2 years without a hiccup.


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

Bummer about the Gyre. Seems perfect for this setup. 

I will always recommend MPs as my choice for a pump. I know someone who worked at Ecotech and have been to their facility. I love all of their products. An MP60 or likely even 40 would be plenty adequate for this system in my opinion. As a reef convert myself, the amount of flow in a planted tank just isn't as critical as it is in a reef tank. We are so geared towards getting high flow over every square inch. It's just not necessary in a planted tank. In fact, it's likely detrimental. The key is a nice, very gentle flow across the tank to distribute the injected CO2 and added nutrients.

I would recommend adding a slip to thread couple at the end of the return line and adding a wide flaring LocLine nozzle. It will help distribute the flow from the return making it wider and gentler. I don't recall reading what your plan was for the return.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I spent all last night fixing the plumbing so should be ready for a water test tomorrow. I had to get my mind off of plumbing...and get away from the fumes...so decided to start looking at stocking the tank. I like schooling fish and colorful fish. It seems like everyone either goes discus or angels for color. I am not crazy about discus and am worried about angels eating any smaller fish. Based off of plants and fish selection it looks like I would keep my tank at 77 degrees or lower. Here is my potential stocking list. Please let me know your thoughts.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> I spent all last night fixing the plumbing so should be ready for a water test tomorrow. I had to get my mind off of plumbing...and get away from the fumes...so decided to start looking at stocking the tank. I like schooling fish and colorful fish. It seems like everyone either goes discus or angels for color. I am not crazy about discus and am worried about angels eating any smaller fish. Based off of plants and fish selection it looks like I would keep my tank at 77 degrees or lower. Here is my potential stocking list. Please let me know your thoughts.


I can tell you that I'm in the 150ish range of tetras in my 125g, you are gonna find you'll want MUCH more than what ya have listed! Pretty sure I have 50 embers in mine and they are more like 0.75" in size. Throw in a good 50-75 Cardinals for a contrasting color. 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Redid all the plumbing in the basement this weekend:






























We have water!









I’m holding off on turning on the pumps until tomorrow...just finished the last of the plumbing and want to give the connections 24 hours to fully cure.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Where'd you get those pipe holders? I've got a long run in my garage and those could probably use some support. 

Always a great feeling having water!! Means things are getting uber close!!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Where'd you get those pipe holders? I've got a long run in my garage and those could probably use some support.
> 
> 
> 
> Always a great feeling having water!! Means things are getting uber close!!



I got them from Amazon.











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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Subscribed! Been following for quite a while. I am liking where the direction is going.

Your stocking is interesting I'm interested to see this evolve. At one point, I had 35 Embers in a 70GAL custom tank, it was an amazing sight to behold, I can imagine how much more would look in a 300!

Gary


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## Mike00726 (May 23, 2011)

This build is making me feel extremely inadequate.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I’ve got water movement...too much in fact! This pump is a beast! At full tilt it was causing water to splash out of the tank and drain the sump enough to get air into the intake. Unfortunately I can’t attach a video to show. 

I’m going to rework the upstairs plumbing a little to get the return more spread out across the whole tank. Instead of one output I’m going to branch it off to have 5 total outputs. It should decrease the return pressure and get the water flow more spread out.

Unfortunately I have a slow leak at my return pipe so will need to address that too. 




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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Wow, sounds like a LOT of flow for sure. Good luck on spreading out the return flow enough to be usable. Gonna be a beautiful site once up and running!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> I’ve got water movement...too much in fact! This pump is a beast! At full tilt it was causing water to splash out of the tank and drain the sump enough to get air into the intake. Unfortunately I can’t attach a video to show.
> 
> I’m going to rework the upstairs plumbing a little to get the return more spread out across the whole tank. Instead of one output I’m going to branch it off to have 5 total outputs. It should decrease the return pressure and get the water flow more spread out.
> 
> ...


Can you put a ball valve inline on the pump to tame it down some? Unless you already have one there. 

With my Jebao DC12000 that's why I went oversized on my return for 1.5" tubing and split it in two for hoping it wouldn't be too much. Good luck taming it down! 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Can you put a ball valve inline on the pump to tame it down some? Unless you already have one there.
> 
> With my Jebao DC12000 that's why I went oversized on my return for 1.5" tubing and split it in two for hoping it wouldn't be too much. Good luck taming it down!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Thanks. I do have a ball valve to turn down the flow. I was just speaking about full on. I tested it again last...it is good at about 50% flow but the pump is too loud. I might switch it out for a smaller model to refute house level.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Awesome build. Love how meticulous it is. I aspire to such and reading these helps me get better but so far away yet. For the life of me I cannot get a tidy enough sump so I can cover it!

Love small fish in big tank. The black neon tetras were over the moon when I had the 8' 180 gallon tank and regularly got together to zoom. I didn't know fish zoomed like cats, dogs and rabbits.

I used a 20" housing for the Cerges and it worked really well with a dedicated loop on a 585 gph pump but the plastic is so fragile on those things. It cracked but mine sat in the sump so any drips weren't a problem. Be careful with the thing!


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## silasvirus82 (Aug 12, 2019)

fftfk said:


> I spent all last night fixing the plumbing so should be ready for a water test tomorrow. I had to get my mind off of plumbing...and get away from the fumes...so decided to start looking at stocking the tank. I like schooling fish and colorful fish. It seems like everyone either goes discus or angels for color. I am not crazy about discus and am worried about angels eating any smaller fish. Based off of plants and fish selection it looks like I would keep my tank at 77 degrees or lower. Here is my potential stocking list. Please let me know your thoughts.


77 is not suitable for german rams from my experience. I keep my community tank with GBR between 80-82 and most people will tell you 80 is a minimum. People that keep/breed GBR exclusively often go up to 84-86.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/1245201-german-blue-rams-temp-question.html


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

silasvirus82 said:


> 77 is not suitable for german rams from my experience. I keep my community tank with GBR between 80-82 and most people will tell you 80 is a minimum. People that keep/breed GBR exclusively often go up to 84-86.
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/1245201-german-blue-rams-temp-question.html



Thank you for the link. That’s very interesting. I wonder if Liveaquaria just got it wrong or is interested in selling more finish. I have never noticed them being that off before. 

Would the Honey Gourami be any better at that temperature?


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

All - I have made a decision that I can’t live with the noise of the Iwaki 100 pump.























The low reading is a baseline with the pump off. The middle reading is in the basement with the fish room door closed. The high reading is standing 3 feet from the pulp.

Update coming on Monday!


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Fantastic build, really looking forward to see the finished result. I just love people who go completely overboard with their hobbies :biggrin:


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> All - I have made a decision that I can’t live with the noise of the Iwaki 100 pump.
> 
> The low reading is a baseline with the pump off. The middle reading is in the basement with the fish room door closed. The high reading is standing 3 feet from the pulp.
> 
> ...


When I got my Panworld 200P for my water change system I couldn't understand how people use pumps like these in their homes on their tanks. Granted it's not Uber loud just way more than I'd want in my house! Especially when my DC pump is barely there for noise. Can't wait to see what you have coming! Love the updates!! 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Well, I said I would have an update on Monday...but it showed up faster than expected. Time to rework some plumbing!











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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Turbocharged tank (just like this build)!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> Well, I said I would have an update on Monday...but it showed up faster than expected. Time to rework some plumbing!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang! $1500 right there! Just out of curiosity do you thing 20' head height is going to be enough vs the 30' of the A200? 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Dang! $1500 right there! Just out of curiosity do you thing 20' head height is going to be enough vs the 30' of the A200?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I can always upgrade! Kidding. It should be. I used an online calculator to figure I had about 13 feet of head. I would like to get approximately 900 gph.

I was originally looking at a Red Dragon pump but then saw Coralvue had these on sale for $200 off which made it more competitive price wise...

But yeah, it was a chunk of change I wasn’t planning on spending. 



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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> I can always upgrade! Kidding. It should be. I used an online calculator to figure I had about 13 feet of head. I would like to get approximately 900 gph.
> 
> I was originally looking at a Red Dragon pump but then saw Coralvue had these on sale for $200 off which made it more competitive price wise...
> 
> ...


Yeah sucks when the cost wasn't anticipated, can you resell you other pump locally to recoup some of the costs? 

Also I'm running 900gph in my 125g and sometimes want to bump it up more to stir things up, which I can get to about 1300gph and tend to bump it up to after stirring things up, just can't get a smooth undisturbed flow about 900 for CO2. 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

It’s hard to believe this little guy will perform as well as they say! 











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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

fftfk said:


> It’s hard to believe this little guy will perform as well as they say!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And he does! Spent the last two weekends/nights redoing virtually all the plumbing. 

The downstairs to accommodate the pump, accommodate a water change better, and remove two 90’s:

























I’m not crazy about using two push connectors/vinyl tubing but the instructions call for it.

I completely reworked the upstairs return plumbing. Instead on 1 return pipe I know have 3 with two of them having 90 degree spigots. It makes for a much more diverse and balanced flow.








































I added two ball valves to reduce/direct the flow if needed but in the end don’t think I needed them at all.

I made a mistake that I need to fix. I drilled siphon break holes in the plumbing.









As you can see they are above the water line and adding a bunch of air bubbles to the tank/popping noise. Any ideas for the best way to plug the holes?

It’s coming along. I will let it run overnight to test the plumbing and get all of the dust out of the tank. Next steps plumb the CO2 canister, hang the abyzz power supply, drain the tank, hard scape, plant the tank, fill it up, and begin the cycle.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

You were talking about a large school of Ember tetras? they're going to get lost in that tank and end up looking like a pinkish fog bank. They really are tiny fish.

Have you considered bigger tetras like the Bleeding-heart? The males get to be 3~4 inches and they have lovely color when in water conditions they love. 

Mine from back in '93 in my 50 long.










I also had Lemon, Red Phantom and Flame tetras in this tank. Red Phantoms are also incredibly pretty when colored up and they get to be about 1.7 inches.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Plugging your siphon break hole? You got a hot glue gun and don't care if there's a bit of a blobby patch over the siphon tube?


Hot glue is fairly benign chemically. Yeah it looks amateurish, but it's really quick and it's also effective.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

A little smoothing of the hot glue and a permanent marker will make that hole almost invisible.


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Hot glue, the Handyman's secret weapon (next to duct tape). You could also put a few layers of black electrical tape over it. 

Gary


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Crazygar said:


> Hot glue, the Handyman's secret weapon (next to duct tape). You could also put a few layers of black electrical tape over it.
> 
> Gary


I'd use a combination, fill the hole with hot glue and then wind the electrical tape around it while the glue is still hot. Alternatively depending on size of the hole you it should be possible to use a suction cup or similar to cover the whole with "actual" material and then glue/ tape it stuck. Like this one:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ehe...UIHYCBAZgQ_AUoAXoECAsQAw#imgrc=wYJAFaILyKLqPM


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Mystery Science Theater 3000 built entire sets using hot glue and gaffer's tape.

My first planted tanks were equipped with old Dynaflow and Lee's HOB power filters patched together with hot glue. I recall a friend commenting he'd never seen so many Dynas all running in the same room at one time. :icon_lol:


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Dry the tube completely. Put a piece of tape on the inside. Use 2 part epoxy that works with PVC. You can buy black tint for the epoxy. After its in you can smooth it over as it becomes tacky. Wipe away excess and you are good to go.

Alternatively you can cut the pipe and add couplers over the hole.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

The pipe isn't under pressure and just about anything will patch it. 

That hole looks too small to break siphon. I drilled a 3/8" hole just yesterday in my shiny new black PVC return as the siphon was strong enough to continue past a 3/16" hole. Test several times before declaring it a go! If you don't have a remote to turn the pump back on then station a helper downstairs to turn it on before the sump overflows if sump is too full like mine was yesterday....

Tank looks amazing. This sort of build teaches me so much and ever so slowly my plumbing is improving.


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## Boostr (Dec 8, 2016)

Hot glue or some plastic welding. Sweet Jeebus thats a huge... Tank! :grin2:


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

I agree with Gramps above. I feel like a big school of ember tetras seems like a good idea for a large tank on paper but you may find it to be underwhelming. Honestly I would rethink your entire fish list. Of course it is all subjective but I feel like a tank this big and cool deserves some interesting live stock.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Kathyy said:


> The pipe isn't under pressure and just about anything will patch it.
> 
> That hole looks too small to break siphon. I drilled a 3/8" hole just yesterday in my shiny new black PVC return as the siphon was strong enough to continue past a 3/16" hole. Test several times before declaring it a go! If you don't have a remote to turn the pump back on then station a helper downstairs to turn it on before the sump overflows if sump is too full like mine was yesterday....
> 
> Tank looks amazing. This sort of build teaches me so much and ever so slowly my plumbing is improving.


This is a perfect item to use! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G95FFN3
@Greggz was the first to bust out with one on his setup. I followed suit when it was on sale for about $50 vs the $79 now. It's runs on an app on your cell phone and with wifi connectivity it's instantaneous to respond. Works well! I've got two of these strips, one in my garage for my RO/Water change setup where my Panworld pump is and one under my tank for anything that needed a timer.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Triport said:


> I agree with Gramps above. I feel like a big school of ember tetras seems like a good idea for a large tank on paper but you may find it to be underwhelming. Honestly I would rethink your entire fish list. Of course it is all subjective but I feel like a tank this big and cool deserves some interesting live stock.



Well - what would you rethink it to? I get no ember tetras but what else?

Bump:


chayos00 said:


> This is a perfect item to use! @*Greggz* was the first to bust out with one on his setup. I followed suit when it was on sale for about $50 vs the $79 now. It's runs on an app on your cell phone and with wifi connectivity it's instantaneous to respond. Works well! I've got two of these strips, one in my garage for my RO/Water change setup where my Panworld pump is and one under my tank for anything that needed a timer.



What is the item you are using? I'm all for tech. I am researching a camera set-up that would allow me to see both the sump and overflow at the same time.


I was going to get the tank planted before installing the cabinetry but think I might have the cabinetry installed first. It will make planting a little more difficult but I would like to get our cabinet maker paid and get it installed asap due to coronavirus concerns. 



Has anyone dealt with cloudy water straight out of the tap? I ran a hose from our garage spigot to the tank to fill it. In two weeks including with the return pump and tunze operating 24 hours a day it has not cleared up. Any ideas?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

fftfk said:


> Has anyone dealt with cloudy water straight out of the tap? I ran a hose from our garage spigot to the tank to fill it. In two weeks including with the return pump and tunze operating 24 hours a day it has not cleared up. Any ideas?


In my part of the US I have noticed cloudy water in the winter time - especially on the coldest days. For me, the source of the cloudy waster was micro bubbles in the water. I found that if I run several air stones in my holding tank, the cloudyness goes away in about 15-30 minutes.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> Well - what would you rethink it to? I get no ember tetras but what else?
> 
> Bump:
> 
> ...


Whoops forgot the link.... 

TP-LINK WiFi Smart Power Strip w/ 6 Surge Protection Outlets & 3 USB Ports HS300, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G95FFN3

As for the cloudy water what are using for a mechanical filtration? I don't think I saw anything in your previous pictures. Get some polyester fiberfill, or quilting sheets/rolls from a fabric place, it makes for a good polishing material. If that doesn't clear it then it could be a bacterial bloom already. Or the other option is to just dump the water and refill it again. 


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Surprisingly a large school of Black Neon Tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi) look amazing in large groups, readily available from almost anywhere that sells fish, inexpensive, hardy and under the right conditions really really shine.

Gary


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Crazygar said:


> Surprisingly a large school of Black Neon Tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi) look amazing in large groups, readily available from almost anywhere that sells fish, inexpensive, hardy and under the right conditions really really shine.
> 
> Gary


I'd definitely consider putting some of the smaller tetras in a tank like this, could enable some really cool behaviour not normally seen in our aquariums. Two examples below






Too bad the quality isn't where it should be in this one


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

It really is all subjective as far as fish goes. I just feel like from personal experience micro fish might seem lost in a tank that large and be a bit underwhelming. If you do go that route the videos above are a good reference on how it might be best to go. HUGE schools of tiny fish. Currently in my 120 I have a few different species of African tetras and they are larger and flashier and pretty exciting. I want a 300 gallon some day and that is probably the direction I will end up going. Also planning a 180 with a big school of angelfish and maybe a few other relatively peaceful cichlids along with some schools of larger South American tetras. Larger rainbowfish could be really nice in a tank that size too. I always try to view Youtube videos of fish I am thinking of getting to make sure I like the way they look and swim (if you just go by photos you don't always get the best idea of what the fish are really like). I have passed on a few fish I thought I might like when I viewed videos of them and realized I didn't like their behavior or way they looked in a large planted tank.


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## Boostr (Dec 8, 2016)

Crazygar said:


> Surprisingly a large school of Black Neon Tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi) look amazing in large groups, readily available from almost anywhere that sells fish, inexpensive, hardy and under the right conditions really really shine.
> 
> Gary


Was thinking the same thing. I have a school of nine in my 55, and with the black background they stand out with that blue/silver and black stripe with the little red at the eye. Great schoolers as well.


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

And then there is also the Red Eye Tetra (Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae). Everyone seems to do the same thing, I dare to be different. These are the fish I would choose given the option of much larger tank.

Gary


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Question for everyone - is there a rule of thumb for how many plants I need? How are sizes measured? (Do I buy one plant per sqft, sqin, etc.) The closest I've been able to find is plant as much as possible. Given that I have 24 sqft of planting surface I'm not sure how much I need.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Wow ok this build is definitely one worth watching! Kudos! Can't wait to see where it's headed!


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I had 40 black neons in an 8' tank. Every day one would get antsy, 'tag' another fish and get a good game of chase going. In a few minutes the school was racing from one end of the tank to the other. Didn't last long but really fun to watch. It looked like cat, dog and rabbit zoomies although I've only seen groups of dogs zooming. Do not know if other 'schooling' fish do the same. I know my congo tetras just floated in formation front and center, emperors didn't school at all and neons schooled when scared. Some could be numbers, did not have an 8' tank and huge numbers of those.

The rule of thumb is to fill the tank half full. Looking down most of the substrate is covered. Looking from the side about half the tank is full.

Stem plants fill more space than tiny Buces and groundcovers. If a stem plant has 1" long leaves then a single stem occupies a 2" diameter circle and a 5 stem clump takes up about 10 square inches. It isn't likely stems will be at the surface of your tank from day one, that's fine. Some stems are sold with aerial leaves that are usually smaller than aquatic leaves like the beautiful Hygrophila difformis. Assume the boring 2" leaves will expand to the amazing 6" or more rosettes of the mature plants. I'd plan for the mature leaves from the start if you grow them.

For ground covers plant each tiny clump about 1" apart. Best practice is to divide so you are planting just half a dozen growing points per clump. This is extremely tedious work but allows the plants room to grow and you aren't wasting nodes in the middle where they have no place to go but up. New growth is much more likely to thrive than what came from the nursery. You have to know how many bits you get per pot to figure how many to buy. I know I grew a pot of hairgrass in low tech for several months. Moved to a larger tank and divided that pot into enough to cover about 2 square feet of substrate and had a successful lawn using CO2. I'd assume one pot fresh from the grower would cover 1/4- 1/2 square foot.

For epiphytes buy enough so your hardscape looks like you planned from the start. They grow slowly enough plus look even better the fuller they get. If you want Anubias Nana in 6 places then buy 6 pots.

For large crown plants like swords, apons and crypts? Assign the location and fill around with stems. As they develop the stems may need to be relocated. Estimate sizes by googling it in actual tanks. The grower generally underestimates size. I gave up on rose sword as one filled front to back a 24" wide tank. After the plant has been in the hobby for 20 years Buceplant reports it gets from 10-20"......

Haven't grown running plants like sags and vals for ages but recall treating them like hairgrass and Marsilea. Plant the distance of the runner apart and turn them back because they will grow the wrong way. Guessing, if a runner is 2" then plant 2" apart.

So plan your hardscape and get it put together. Then decide how to plant it and from there calculate plants required. Do research and find scapes that really appeal to you. Doesn't matter what size the inspiration tank is, this is to find plant combinations and scapes that appeal. I've been doubling up on hardscape with each major rescape, go big. The 32" long 6" thick branch in my tank isn't even close to overwhelming the scape. I wish I was confident and strong enough to put more than 20 pound rocks in my tank. They look really small in there.


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

fftfk said:


> Question for everyone - is there a rule of thumb for how many plants I need? How are sizes measured? (Do I buy one plant per sqft, sqin, etc.) The closest I've been able to find is plant as much as possible. Given that I have 24 sqft of planting surface I'm not sure how much I need.


I myself am not aware of any general rule of thumb, I've just been planting by estimate and feeling. When I recently started my 24G tank I belive I bought about 10 packs of plants from my LFS's and I'd consider that moderate to heavily planted, as to give some sort of idea. Suppose if I were you I'd be looking to grow plants well in time before flooding, emersed, or in any way, as the sheer amount of plants would add up to a significant amount if paid for in store.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> This is a perfect item to use! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G95FFN3
> @*Greggz* was the first to bust out with one on his setup. I followed suit when it was on sale for about $50 vs the $79 now. It's runs on an app on your cell phone and with wifi connectivity it's instantaneous to respond. Works well! I've got two of these strips, one in my garage for my RO/Water change setup where my Panworld pump is and one under my tank for anything that needed a timer.



Thanks!




Kathyy said:


> I had 40 black neons in an 8' tank. Every day one would get antsy, 'tag' another fish and get a good game of chase going. In a few minutes the school was racing from one end of the tank to the other. Didn't last long but really fun to watch. It looked like cat, dog and rabbit zoomies although I've only seen groups of dogs zooming. Do not know if other 'schooling' fish do the same. I know my congo tetras just floated in formation front and center, emperors didn't school at all and neons schooled when scared. Some could be numbers, did not have an 8' tank and huge numbers of those.
> 
> The rule of thumb is to fill the tank half full. Looking down most of the substrate is covered. Looking from the side about half the tank is full.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this great information! I know it takes a long time to type all of that out.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

I like deep bodied tetras. There's a new one from Columbia called appropriately enough, the Colombian Tetra. They're quite pretty, being blue and red contrasting. Somewhat larger than most tetras, deep bodied and tend to school better.


Black Phantoms have some subtle coloration, as do Flame and Head and Taillights. Most Tetras aren't always great schoolers. They'll group associate most times but depending on their surroundings the group tends to get a bit lazy.


Plants are going to be a bugger with that size of tank I'd see what kind of deals you can get from local folks who trim the planted tanks frequently, because retail plant costs could be huge,


Some plants do great as first planted tank specimens in a huge tank if you're patient enough to propogate to grow them in. You want something that grows in fast like Rotala Rotundifolia, Water Wisteria, ( it's a shame that Hygro Polysperma is banned...) Water Sprite, lots of quick growing swords like E. Tennellus and Flame or Ocelot Swords.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

So here’s the thing with large tanks...you get everything ready, order your plants, only to find out the vendor doesn’t have enough of the types of plants you ordered! I was hoping to be planting today but that will be delayed until next week (fingers crossed).

In the meantime I gave other fun items on order!

Question for everyone - do you think it makes sense to have a moving bed K1 filter in a planted tank? It seems like it might be overkill. I have the materials so could always put it in later. 


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Hmmm, I am assuming your refering to the K1 being used in the 75g sump in the basement. 
With that said, I would use it if I had a sump for my tank. Mostly because I am over stocked with rainbow fish.
If your 300g had a proportionate amount of large fish as I have, and not as densly planted as I am - then I would say yes.
If you are lightly to moderately planted and have a reasonable bio load of fish it is probably over kill then. I have a reasonably full tray of Eheim bio media in my single cansiter filter and I don't think I have ever measured ammonia levels in my tank once it settled in - even with the huge bio load.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Damn, was hoping to see planted photos haha, goodluck with the vendor, hopefully they can send ya everything soon!


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I've discovered that bacterial filtration complements plant filtration nicely. I've not done anything as elaborate as a fluidized filter but adding poret sponges to the sump vastly [did not see any difference between bioballs and an empty sump] improved my tank's balance. Same as having an assortment of macro sized algae eating critters, it's likely having as many different nitrogen cycle flora/fauna types as possible is a good idea. I'd add it now then see what happens later without. Bet you'll prefer having it in there. 

Hope your plants come on time and in good condition looking as you expect.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

It’s going to be a long night 


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Will be right hear in the morning - waiting on pics


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Holey Smokes that is a LOT of plants!!

You do not fool around Sir.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Wow, this looks like a blast! Can't wait to see those pictures. I'll have the coffee ready in the AM!


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Anxiously awaiting as well. That is a serious amount of plants. 

Gary


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Cant wait to see more


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Like what my last date said, "THAT'S IT?!" LOL. 

Seriously, not even a full tank shot. I was looking forward to see what all those plants did to the tank!

Gary


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)




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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


>


What a good looking cup of coffee...


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Immortal1 said:


>


Yeah, C'mon now with the pics..........this group is starved for entertainment!:grin2:


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Crazygar said:


> Like what my last date said, "THAT'S IT?!" LOL.
> 
> Seriously, not even a full tank shot. I was looking forward to see what all those plants did to the tank!
> 
> Gary



Your date???

Jeez - you guys are a demanding bunch. There are so many tannins in the water, reflections from windows, plus lack of lighting right now it is hard to get a clear shot.


























I have a 15 swords left over...should I figure out a way to jam them in there or wait for grow out. I know you want as many plants as possible to begin.

I started with 40 hair grass...wish I had ordered 80 but had enough of the rest of the plants (I think/hope).

Today’s projects are getting a temporary setup for lighting and getting CO2 running.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> What a good looking cup of coffee...



Also...this is a good looking cup of coffee!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Yes, a little hard to make out the details, but, it looks like you were able to fill most of that 300g foot print with plants. 
Was gonna say those swords are likely gonna get big!!! I know mine did. But then I remembered... 300g tank, not 75g LOL


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

That is quite the full tank!

For the hair grass, so make it fill in quicker and look more full, you may want to consider pulling apart the potted bunches into smaller plants and covering more space. Planting smaller bunches in the shape of a #5 on a dice will really help them to grow in. 40 pots could turn into at least 160 individual plantings, or more depending on how you split up the pots!

For the swords that is really your call- hard to tell exactly what the current planting looks like. One thing to really keep up on with them is clearing out the emersed leaves that will melt back over time. Keep you hands in the tank daily to keep the rotting organics down and they will grow in beautiful and lush!


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

fftfk said:


> Your date???


Some of us are unattached and have an aversion to commitments of the non-Aquatic type. 

Looking really good, looking forward to the pictures with the room dark and the tank lights on. How long did it take to plant all those plants? 

I remember moving a 75GAL deeply planted and having take 4 or 5 hours.

Gary


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> That is quite the full tank!
> 
> For the hair grass, so make it fill in quicker and look more full, you may want to consider pulling apart the potted bunches into smaller plants and covering more space. Planting smaller bunches in the shape of a #5 on a dice will really help them to grow in. 40 pots could turn into at least 160 individual plantings, or more depending on how you split up the pots!
> 
> For the swords that is really your call- hard to tell exactly what the current planting looks like. One thing to really keep up on with them is clearing out the emersed leaves that will melt back over time. Keep you hands in the tank daily to keep the rotting organics down and they will grow in beautiful and lush!



I started at 5 and finished at 1:00 AM...not sure I had it in me to separate all the hair grass plus on the few times I did that I was tearing apart the roots!

I’m going to need more light!
















The lights are off center bc the cabinet is not yet in. 











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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I love threads like this.

When I show them to my wife, she begins to think that I am relatively normal!!:grin2:

Boy oh boy that is a LOT of aquarium there. Keep the updates coming.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

wow, great build thread! love the history on the plumbing and getting everything set up


yes, separating the hairgrass is such a big pain but I've always found that it actually does better when broken up into smaller batches, you might have been able to fill out the whole tank. granted it might have taken a week to replant


YES, definitely need more light!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Really liking that forest of swords, I've never seen one and am super excited about seeing them transitioned to aquatic / filled in / this whole build. 

Keep the pictures coming


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Hairgrass and swords in a see through tank sounds perfect. Love the wood you've got, all looking fantastic.

You have to get your zen on to plant hairgrass. Sit down at the tank with a couple tubs of water and wet paper towel lined cookie sheet. Deep breath and get to it. That's the easy part. Standing on a step stool, picking up a clump and planting thousands of clumps is what kills you. Then replanting because hairgrass is like that.


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## MSaxen (Mar 5, 2019)

Amazing set up. Can't wait to see this tank mature. 

For your lights, are you planning to mount them any higher when the canopy comes in? More height will help the spread a bit.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

My lights will about 4-6 inches higher. In addition I went ahead and ordered two more.










I ended up getting caught up with some work stuff so did not get as much done today as hoped. I did get the apex mounted and PH calibrated. PH is currently reading 7.35.


















Posting the picture made my realize the location of my ph probe (next to the returns) means it will get bombarded by bubbles. I will relocate it tomorrow.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Please share Apex Neptune details.


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

Gonna need a bigger boat ...... I mean lights


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Streetwise said:


> Please share Apex Neptune details.



It is the Apex EL. I haven’t really programmed anything yet. I had the full version on my last tank and thought it was very beneficial but didn’t think I needed as much control especially considering my lights and power heads are upstairs so will not be controlled by it.


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

When all is said and done this going to be a wonderful build to watch! Already showing promise, of course the tech behind it is just as fun!

Gary


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## splattered (Jun 7, 2017)

Total insanity. How long do you give whoever you live with to tolerate such insanity? Rimless in the living room? Do you have any small animals/children? Might be risky... what kind of floors do you have? Might be worth putting in some tile around the stand. I always say i'm gonna be careful and then tend to spill water everywhere. Is there a drain to outside/wasteline/gardenbed for water changes? Might be cleaner than running a house through the house. Not nitpicking, just curious.
I had 2 huge tanks on the 2nd floor of my house and it lasted less than a year. We lost power during the surge of electricity usage during the summer and the syphon-break was clogged with algae. Hundreds of gallons all over the house. It was glorious! Even if that hadn't happened it wasn't practical in the long run. I just did it for the heat really. Now everything's in the basement with probe heaters. Is the sump room insulated/heated? You could get infiltration through the tank itself.
Also curious about what you'll use for silencers on your overflow. There's alot of long runs of white pipe that may burp and echo through the room while you're watching t.v.
Like a pipe organ. I end up making them myself. The ones they sell are never the size I'm looking for and/or they fall apart. It's all junk. Definitely gonna have to get some air in that system I'd imagine tho


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## splattered (Jun 7, 2017)

oh I see, you have the 2 duros there and the slop sink set-up in the basement, ok.
Why did you go with the expensive new pump when your in the basement where no one can hear it anyway? Why not use a bigger industrial/commercial grade centrifugal pump for the money? i got one from AMT for $500 that's way bigger than that. I think salt water froths up too much so they make those venturis etc but fw is good with something less fine-tuned. Anyone know for sure?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

From the design and use of hardscape/plants, this tank is calling out for a South American group of fish. 
For scale, I would do larger, medium, and small fish. 

This would look great with this stock:

12 _Pterophyllum scalare redshoulder _"Rio Manucapuru" 

100 _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ (Cardinal tetras)

15 _biotodoma cupidos_ or Bolivian Rams

20 corydoras sp. 
3- L- numbered pleco sp.

Wasnt hard to find a You tube video of this combination ( of sorts).


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

1500 chili rasboras.....


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## Des275 (Mar 7, 2018)

Where did you find that wood?


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## Boostr (Dec 8, 2016)

Alligator Gar would be perfect for that tank...


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> 1500 chili rasboras.....


My experience with chili rasboras tells me that even at that number it would be completely underwhelming in a tank that size. Looking at my 45 from across the room with about 30 chili rasboras and I can barely see them. Might be fine for someone who cares more about plants than fish where it is a planted tank with fish as secondary inhabitants.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Life's gotten in the way of staying updated on TPT, but love to see your updates! Glad you got some plants in that tank and dang those swords are going to get HUGE LOL


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Every time I open this thread I think this guy is crazy lol... Still do haha but keep up the good work and keep us updated dammit 😂


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## plantedman (Feb 5, 2012)

fftfk said:


> My lights will about 4-6 inches higher. In addition I went ahead and ordered two more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Amazing Project!, Just happened to view this thread!... Waiting for next set of update pictures!..


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## vacko000 (Jul 10, 2019)

Amazing thread, good plan, great tank. Good thing that you have ordered two more lights, 3 would be enough for some anubias and swords, with 5 you can have much more.
Looking forward to see this done....


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## irishspy (Oct 22, 2007)

Man, all this just for one betta... :biggrin:

Seriously, the tank is looking great, and I love the stand. Saving popcorn to watch this one develop.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

splattered said:


> Total insanity. How long do you give whoever you live with to tolerate such insanity? Rimless in the living room? Do you have any small animals/children? Might be risky... what kind of floors do you have? Might be worth putting in some tile around the stand. I always say i'm gonna be careful and then tend to spill water everywhere. Is there a drain to outside/wasteline/gardenbed for water changes? Might be cleaner than running a house through the house. Not nitpicking, just curious.
> 
> I had 2 huge tanks on the 2nd floor of my house and it lasted less than a year. We lost power during the surge of electricity usage during the summer and the syphon-break was clogged with algae. Hundreds of gallons all over the house. It was glorious! Even if that hadn't happened it wasn't practical in the long run. I just did it for the heat really. Now everything's in the basement with probe heaters. Is the sump room insulated/heated? You could get infiltration through the tank itself.
> 
> ...



My wife is very forgiving!!!! The tank will be enclosed in a cabinet so not open top. I was hoping I’d have photos this weekend but we decided to hold off having the cabinets delivered a little while with everything going on.

If you look at my first few posts the house was designed around the tank. The tank rests on a steal I-beam with the floor on either side supported with engineered wood designed for the load. According to the Architect I could safely put a tank 4 times the size but probably shouldn’t go any larger than that. Hmmmm....

I have one 1 1/2 inch bean animal drain. It’s basically a durso with an extra safety drain that should always remain dry except in an emergency.

The entire house is heated with radiant heat which keeps the sump room at 70 degrees. I have two 600 watt heaters that will heat the tank the rest of the way.

I bought a heat exchanger to set up to use with my radiant system but at the last moment the guy tried to jack up the cost substantially. Might still try to get that done in the future....


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> From the design and use of hardscape/plants, this tank is calling out for a South American group of fish.
> For scale, I would do larger, medium, and small fish.
> 
> This would look great with this stock:
> ...



I really like this proposed list...might go with something similar. Would these fish have issues with any Rainbow fish?


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Des275 said:


> Where did you find that wood?



Believe it or not a local store posted on FB that they got some nice large pieces in. They posted at 6:00 PM and I was there the next day at store opening. I think they were a little miffed that I showed up and bought all of their large pieces. I didn’t end up using the smallest piece I bought:










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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

irishspy said:


> Man, all this just for one betta... :biggrin:
> 
> Seriously, the tank is looking great, and I love the stand. Saving popcorn to watch this one develop.





andrewss said:


> Every time I open this thread I think this guy is crazy lol... Still do haha but keep up the good work and keep us updated dammit 😂




Have you two been talking to my wife? She keeps saying I’m crazy and also doesn’t understand why we can’t drop the beta in the tank.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

fftfk said:


> I really like this proposed list...might go with something similar. Would these fish have issues with any Rainbow fish?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You could do Rainbows as well-- as long as the particular ones you choose can take temperatures at or around 78 degrees. I dont know much about Rainbows-- never have kept them-- but there are many in forum that do who could help you choose varieties. Well, let me correct myself, I do have neon rainbows. They are the very pale blue rainbows in video with red tinge of fins. These would look great with your cardinal tetras and angels. 

I thought Id add a video of my own _Biotodoma cupidos _ so you could see what they look like. This video, actually, does not capture how much they "glow" with a tannish orange around their mid-section. They are very beautiful. I have a lot of fish in my 180-- sorry about the photo-bombs at every turn. 

https://vimeo.com/404682404


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## jcbradt (Apr 4, 2020)

this thread is awesome and amazing and my SO would not understand.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

A quick update...I pulled all of the dwarf grass one by one and split it up to smaller clumps. I didn’t go down to 12 blades of grass per clump as that would have been insanity but broke up each pot into 4-6 clumps. Overall I think it looks better.

































I’m not sure if you can tell but I added the two kessils. It is a much more even spread of light. Lighting is on full bore for 5 hours a day and then off. 

Someone asked how I change water in an earlier post. I run a hose from the utility sink to my sump and turn it on while opening the drain on the sump at the same time. It is pretty easy to balance the flow to keep my sump level.








I’m not sure how much I change. I run it about 20 minutes to half hour each day. 

I started running carbon to hopefully get some of the tannins out of the water. I know they don’t hurt anything but would still like to clear up the water some. I will start purigen if the carbon doesn’t help.









The water making station and ATO are mostly up and running. The ATO is working fine but I still need to work on the barrel tender. I had a mini flood when it didn’t turn off as expected. I still need to sort out the issue.


























I’ve been increasing my CO2. Due to the size of the tank the bubble counter is pretty much useless as it just looks like a steady stream. I have been going by PH which decreases from 7.4 to about 6.8 when I am running the CO2.

Things still to do include setting up the K1 moving bed, fert dosing, and doing a big tank cleaning. I’m a little nervous about that as I’m worried the gravel vac might suck the plants up as I go over/around them.










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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

yeah, splitting the grass will definitely help them spread out quicker!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

That's some project you got going!

Couple shout outs of what works for me if your fairly new to this:

- I didn't see what substrate your using, but either way lots of water changes.
- Make sure you have enough light for DHG.
- Start off with a short photo period like 5 hrs (or a short peak period and the rest viewing light.) Many run the lights for 8-10 hrs, get algae and then reduce. Better to prevent it then trying to remove it. 
- Make sure co2 is good
- Use carbon and/or purigen in the filter at startup. The more the better.

You have a lot of hardscape that will limit the amount of uptake from plants since it's not packed. Doing these things will keep the tank exceptionally clean (organic-wise), especially in the beginning until the biofilter and plants have time to develop fully.


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## fishguy1978 (Mar 20, 2020)

I would hold off on gravel vac. Let the plants get established for a few weeks to a month or two. Daily water changes like you are doing will suffice since you haven't added fish.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Some exciting stuff today!!!


























The cabinet in the back is still open bc the panel is being scribed to wall. Another week or two and it will be a complete.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

fftfk said:


> Some exciting stuff today!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 What a beautiful tank. 

The fish you pick will be very important. Choose well.


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## vacko000 (Jul 10, 2019)

Angel fish, and lot of German Blue Rams. 
The cabinet look nice. How does it remove or open? Will it be easy for you to do regular maintenance? Replanting, cleaning glass??


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

vacko000 said:


> Angel fish, and lot of German Blue Rams.
> The cabinet look nice. How does it remove or open? Will it be easy for you to do regular maintenance? Replanting, cleaning glass??



The cabinet opens nicely. It can be almost complete opened on both sides.


























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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

If Tesla made an aquarium cabinet that would be it. Model X


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## vacko000 (Jul 10, 2019)

Lol, more like a mercedes....


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

That is one of the coolest canopies I have ever seen.

The entire set up is outstanding, and the finished stand brings it to a new level.

Very, very well done!!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Absolutely fantastic canopy setup- such great attention to detail!


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

That is wonderful. Definitely deserves a very carefully curated selection of fish.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

That is a LOT of bookmatched walnut! Wonderful build!


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

Pretty amazing. Bet ya are happy it's all done with exception of a few bugs to work out. 

Get lots of cory cats and you prob won't have to vac much if any. They really clean and stir up stuff so the filter system pics it up.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

All of my testing parameters came back at 0 or close to it. I was going to add some cleanup crew to my tank this week. Cory cats are definitely on the list.


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## adam66 (Mar 8, 2015)

any condensation issues?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

fftfk said:


> All of my testing parameters came back at 0 or close to it. I was going to add some cleanup crew to my tank this week. Cory cats are definitely on the list.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Personally I would wait for a couple of reasons. One fish like Corys are probably going to loosen up some of that hairgrass you just planted. 

And two, they will do much better if you let the tank mature a bit. Let the plants grow, trim them, move them around if you need to change something, tweak ferts, etc. Then 4-6 weeks after water went in add some fish. You will cut down on any potential losses that way. Just my suggestion and they way I do things and it seems to work out very well for me over the years.


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

adam66 said:


> any condensation issues?



I was wondering about that, too...I have circulating fans in the wood canopy over my tank - was warned about the effects of all that moisture on the wood


Gorgeous tank here regardless!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The tank needs to be cycled before adding fish.


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## sbo80 (Oct 13, 2019)

fftfk said:


> All of my testing parameters came back at 0 or close to it. I was going to add some cleanup crew to my tank this week.


I might have missed it, what are you doing to force a cycle? Fish food? Bottled bacteria? If you haven't added anything to create ammonia you won't get much of a cycle, and with that much volume maybe none that would show up on a test. Personally I would add a few fish (the cheaper ones, not your centerpieces) to push the cycle along. No schools yet. If you haven't committed to your stocking - my new favorite is Congo Tetras. They get big enough they won't disappear in that tank but not so big you can't have a decent number. But I think they are pretty enough to be a "centerpiece" instead of something like angels.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Wow the project is really coming along! The cabinetry looks great and very well executed 👌😎


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

minorhero said:


> That is a LOT of bookmatched walnut! Wonderful build!


It's absolutely beautiful. Just have cost a pretty penny too.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

rzn7z7 said:


> I was wondering about that, too...I have circulating fans in the wood canopy over my tank - was warned about the effects of all that moisture on the wood
> 
> 
> Gorgeous tank here regardless!





adam66 said:


> any condensation issues?




Thank you. I am having a little bit of condensation/heat issues. I am looking into installing exhaust fans. We don’t want it to exhaust up as we want to minimize light leakage.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

sbo80 said:


> I might have missed it, what are you doing to force a cycle? Fish food? Bottled bacteria? If you haven't added anything to create ammonia you won't get much of a cycle, and with that much volume maybe none that would show up on a test. Personally I would add a few fish (the cheaper ones, not your centerpieces) to push the cycle along. No schools yet. If you haven't committed to your stocking - my new favorite is Congo Tetras. They get big enough they won't disappear in that tank but not so big you can't have a decent number. But I think they are pretty enough to be a "centerpiece" instead of something like angels.



I added about a quarter of the K1 media along with two bottles of API QuickStart this weekend. I have one more bottle once the K1 cycles to add when I add the remaining K1.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> The tank needs to be cycled before adding fish.



Yes - definitely. My post was not very clear. I did not mean I was thinking about adding fish right away just starting on the cleanup crew. Snails and shrimp.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I found a few mystery snails this week. Would you guys just pluck them out of the tank as you find them?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

fftfk said:


> I found a few mystery snails this week. Would you guys just pluck them out of the tank as you find them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No reason to. They will help clean up algae, etc. Snails are a good indicator. If they start to overpopulate it means the tank has too much left over food and/or decaying organics. So the overpopulation would tell you more maintenance is in order. If the food source is limited so will the snail population be.


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## fishguy1978 (Mar 20, 2020)

I have to pick up my jaw. It's on the floor. WOW!!!


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

Asteroid said:


> Personally I would wait for a couple of reasons. One fish like Corys are probably going to loosen up some of that hairgrass you just planted.
> 
> And two, they will do much better if you let the tank mature a bit. Let the plants grow, trim them, move them around if you need to change something, tweak ferts, etc. Then 4-6 weeks after water went in add some fish. You will cut down on any potential losses that way. Just my suggestion and they way I do things and it seems to work out very well for me over the years.



Yeah, I agree, I think it's better for the plants to settle in and cycle before adding the fish. It'll let the plants take root properly without being moved around. Corys are cute but can mess things up while looking for food, besides the tank is new, very little food to discover now.


It would probably be a good idea to actually go out and buy the fish now though and keep them the 2-3 weeks in a quarantine tank, they'll be easier to maintain,feed, and observe in a bare bottom tank rather than the main display tank. 

I've had new fish added to the display tank randomly die due to the introduction stage and I wouldn't be able to find them in the main display tank under all the plants. You can QT them and then add the ones that survive once all the plants grow in.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

I think it looks like a modern Euro-style sailing yacht, like this:










or this:


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Is there any reason not to put an aquarium decoration (treasure chest, shipwreck, etc.) in my tank? Is there anything toxic or bad for plants/fish about them? My wife just told me my son wants to surprise me for my upcoming birthday? I’m not partial to the decorations but don’t want to hurt his feelings.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Hmm probably not a problem I'd say! A solution could be, well at least eventually, (if it's not a huge decoration) you could plant around it and let them overgrow it or something.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I think a little ship is OK, but if you go Sponge Bob, I'll be forced to unsubscribe :hihi:


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## zmartin (May 1, 2018)

My tanks have a TARDIS, weeping angel and a dalek. I wouldn’t have put them in there but it gives the kids a tie to the tank and a bit of ownership. For getting everyone involved and a talking point it’s probably a good start.

Shouldn’t be any harm if bought at an aquarium shop.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Asteroid said:


> I think a little ship is OK, but if you go Sponge Bob, I'll be forced to unsubscribe :hihi:


I was thinking more of those clam shells that fill up with air and "burp" every few minutes!:grin2:

In any event, really looking forward to this now.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> I was thinking more of those clam shells that fill up with air and "burp" every few minutes!:grin2:


I didn't even want to go there :surprise:



Greggz said:


> In any event, really looking forward to this now.


Yeah me too, can't wait to see the color glo-fish his kid picks out >


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Asteroid said:


> I didn't even want to go there :surprise:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah me too, can't wait to see the color glo-fish his kid picks out >



It’s going to be a whole tank of nothing but goo-fish!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Question on plant melting:

Do I remove the melting leaves or the whole stem? In instances where I have some new growth do I cut that off and replant it?


























Also - I have the start of some Cyanobacteria. Not sure if can see it on this picture. I was going to manually remove and shorten the light period back down to 5 hours only. Any other ideas? I have chemiclean if it gets bad but would prefer to avoid.










Finally - on my water changes. I’m not sure how much I’ve been changing at a time but am worried about Chlorine in the water. Typically I dump some prime in with it but am not sure how much to dose as I don’t know the size of the water change. I just let it run half hour every other day. Any ideas for it? Does it matter during the cycle with no fish?


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## vacko000 (Jul 10, 2019)

For the plants I would wait for the to get at least 3-4 inches of new growth before cutting and replanting.
Did you measure the water parameters? Some algae is to be expected at first. CO2 levels? Ph drop?....

Can you shut off all of the pumps and just remove 50% and than fill it back up againd and than use some purigen?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Some critical startup questions to avoid algae. 

How many hours did you start your lights at? 
How much water are you actually changing and how often?
What substrate do you have? 
What's in the filter?


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Asteroid said:


> Some critical startup questions to avoid algae.
> 
> How many hours did you start your lights at?
> How much water are you actually changing and how often?
> ...





vacko000 said:


> For the plants I would wait for the to get at least 3-4 inches of new growth before cutting and replanting.
> Did you measure the water parameters? Some algae is to be expected at first. CO2 levels? Ph drop?....
> 
> Can you shut off all of the pumps and just remove 50% and than fill it back up againd and than use some purigen?[/
> ...


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## fishguy1978 (Mar 20, 2020)

1. What is the flow rate of your water change? If it is say 4 gallons/min then in 30 min you have drained 120 gallons. Once those calculations have been made you can dose the proper amount of dechlor. Measure the time to fill a 5 gallon bucket and that will give you flow rate.
2. 5hrs at 100% on an initial setup is way to long.
3. Cyano bacteria. Physically remove what you can. 
4. The tank looks like the surface of the substrate could use a good vac. Just hover over the the surface to remove the dusting of debris.


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## ThaiGuy (Apr 1, 2020)

I also had a 300 gallon planted with a sump and it was a challenge getting enough C02 in the tank,I ended up buying a pump with a bubble blaster bladed output in which the c02 connected, this was then placed in the sump. I then built a 2' reactor. I ran the output of the pump into the reactor and then back into the sump. Got great c02 efficiency. But you are going to burn through c02. I was refilling 50 lb tanks every 2 months, maybe 3 if my memory is correct.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

ThaiGuy said:


> I also had a 300 gallon planted with a sump and it was a challenge getting enough C02 in the tank,I ended up buying a pump with a bubble blaster bladed output in which the c02 connected, this was then placed in the sump. I then built a 2' reactor. I ran the output of the pump into the reactor and then back into the sump. Got great c02 efficiency. But you are going to burn through c02. I was refilling 50 lb tanks every 2 months, maybe 3 if my memory is correct.



I’m trying to figure out my CO2. What was your ph drop like? Mine is about .7 over a 6 hour period. Is there a better way to track it?

There has been a lot of discussion about the size of the reactor. I’m not sure how bigger reactor would improve CO2 dilution provided all of your CO2 is dissolving (ie. not ending up with a CO2 reactor in the reactor.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

fftfk said:


> I’m trying to figure out my CO2. What was your ph drop like? Mine is about .7 over a 6 hour period. Is there a better way to track it?
> 
> There has been a lot of discussion about the size of the reactor. I’m not sure how bigger reactor would improve CO2 dilution provided all of your CO2 is dissolving (ie. not ending up with a CO2 reactor in the reactor.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only because the numbers work out, I have an idea for you. Bear in mind, maybe not the best...
I have a 75g tank. I have a cerges reactor, standard height. I use 10# CO2 in 4 months.
You have 300g tank. You "could" build 4 normal reactors with a parallel manifold and likely a valved bypass. A 20# tank should get you about 2 months.
Assuming all things are linear, it takes about 1.5 hours at most to bring ph from 6.9-7.0 down to 6.0, sometimes 5.9. 



RexGrigg reactors seem to be a better option for larger tanks due to flow issues of the cerges reactor. Ken Keating1's variable flow reactor is a very sound setup - may work well for you.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> Only because the numbers work out, I have an idea for you. Bear in mind, maybe not the best...
> I have a 75g tank. I have a cerges reactor, standard height. I use 10# CO2 in 4 months.
> You have 300g tank. You "could" build 4 normal reactors with a parallel manifold and likely a valved bypass. A 20# tank should get you about 2 months.
> Assuming all things are linear, it takes about 1.5 hours at most to bring ph from 6.9-7.0 down to 6.0, sometimes 5.9.
> ...



If that type of drop that quickly is ideal I can definitely bump up my CO2. I was looking at the 2 hour aquarist website and seeing his discussion about getting CO2 to saturation quickly I was thinking about two reactors. One set to high flow to reach saturation quickly and another to low flow to maintain it. 

I googled Ken Keating Variable Reactor and did not come up with anything. Do you have a link?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1284493-keating1s-55g-weighing-co2-listing-results-ppm-why-dont-we-do.html

Variable volume reactor is near the bottom of Post #1.
I have also read 2 hour aquarist discussion on co2 saturation. My take on it is it gets exponentially harder to increase the co2 level in a water column. Given this, I adjust the co2 flow rate to give a little too much of a drop. Then use air stones on timers to burn of some co2 / add extra oxygen. It seems to work without relying on the ph controller to shut off the co2.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...g-co2-listing-results-ppm-why-dont-we-do.html
> 
> Variable volume reactor is near the bottom of Post #1.
> I have also read 2 hour aquarist discussion on co2 saturation. My take on it is it gets exponentially harder to increase the co2 level in a water column. Given this, I adjust the co2 flow rate to give a little too much of a drop. Then use air stones on timers to burn of some co2 / add extra oxygen. It seems to work without relying on the ph controller to shut off the co2.



My man Ken Keating...that is some set up he’s got. It’s so intense it crashes my iPad every time I look at it. I had to real it on my computer. Definitely some good ideas in there. Thank you for pointing that thread out. 


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Added 9 Cory Cats to test the waters....









They are funny little fish to watch swim around. They haven’t really hidden at all or acted stunned to be in a new tank...they just got right business of zipping around the tank.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

fftfk said:


> Added 9 Cory Cats to test the waters....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you test for ammonia and nitrite before adding fish?


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Did you test for ammonia and nitrite before adding fish?



Yes - multiple times.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Cory cats are fun little fish. Had to chuckle when you said 9. I have 5 or 6 in my 75g tank. You will definitely spend a little time finding all 9 in your 300g tank  
Four of the ones I have are albino cory cats and I would swear they are blind by the way they bump into other things and other fish. Anyway, looks like you have a good start to the grass in the above pic.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

fftfk said:


> Added 9 Cory Cats to test the waters....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to see the hairgrass is starting to root and spread! It will look fantastic when it fills in!


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## vacko000 (Jul 10, 2019)

Corys are always good in a tank. I see a red shrimp in there as well, there will be houndrets of the in a few mounths...


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

vacko000 said:


> Corys are always good in a tank. I see a red shrimp in there as well, there will be houndrets of the in a few mounths...



1000’s...I started with 20 red, 20 yellow, and 20 blue...about half of them seem to
Like living in the overflow. I took the time to scoop a few out only to watch them zoom right back in.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> Good to see the hairgrass is starting to root and spread! It will look fantastic when it fills in!



I was very excited when I first noticed that!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> Cory cats are fun little fish. Had to chuckle when you said 9. I have 5 or 6 in my 75g tank. You will definitely spend a little time finding all 9 in your 300g tank
> Four of the ones I have are albino cory cats and I would swear they are blind by the way they bump into other things and other fish. Anyway, looks like you have a good start to the grass in the above pic.



I can consistently find 7/8 of them...but one is always in hiding. I plan to add more when the tank is more established.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Glad I finally got caught up, works been busy and life has been busy. I saw you talk about adding bacteria for the K1, but did you ever feed your tank ammonia for the nitrogen cycle to start? Either way now with fish in there (expensive corries at that) make sure to watch you levels, but I would imagine in this beast of a tank and your water change schedule you'll be okay. 

That cabinet, OMG BEAUTIFUL!!! 

For the CO2, a 1pt drop or up to say about 1.3pts of a drop is about what I've been running along with a few others in the 1.4ish range. If I'm recalling correctly. For your CO2, I built a large CO2 reactor 4' tall and 4" in diameter. This thing dissolves any amount of CO2 I blast into it. It has about 400-500 gph going through it for flow. I do hear some bubbles going through it, but if it's your basement next to the sump, no worries about a bit of noise. Mine is actually in my den where I work from home, so hasn't been a bother to me. You could also do that varying sized idea with something like this here too for a size of a system.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Question for everyone- are these snail eggs or shrimp eggs? I’m guessing snail but want to be clear as I have them on some of the wood as well but instead of laying flat they form ridges.











I did a water change yesterday and am missing a few corys today. For my water change I add 15 ml of API Water Treatment at the beginning and end. Hopefully they are in hiding and I didn’t nuke them. Water test is 0 across the board.

I am starting to get some good growth on the hair grass (both height and spreading out). The swords are not growing but not melting either (other than a few leafs at the beginning. All of the Ludwiga melted a bit but about half is coming back strongly. The rotala indica is growing strongly at the top of the plants but has a lot of brown die off at the bottoms (the shipped part). Should I cut off the tops and replant them while getting rid of the bottoms? The Java Fern is not doing much of anything...maybe a little decrease in leaf size but no melting like the Ludwiga did. 


















I’m not so happy with the performance of the sump. I am not sure if I will be able to get a moving bed going or not. I can’t figure out a way to trap the K1 in the container in a manner that it won’t overflow when the return pump is off plus can’t keep it from clogging up the drain holes in the sump walls. To address this I have ordered some bags to contain it and thinking about using sponges in the filter for biological filtration.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Spoke too soon...just walked by my tank and there were 7 of them happy as a clam zipping around the tank. I spent about half an hour looking for them at lunch.

Sneaky bastards!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

fftfk said:


> Spoke too soon...just walked by my tank and there were 7 of them happy as a clam zipping around the tank. I spent about half an hour looking for them at lunch.
> 
> Sneaky bastards!
> 
> ...


Have a funny one for you - wife has a 40g cube. Yes, pretty heavily planted but not solid. Had a large (>3" long) Siamese algea eater in there that I wanted to move to another tank. Spent more than an hour looking for him and finally gave up - assumed he jumped out the back. Two days later I see him swimming along the front glass. How is that possible??? LOL


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## fishguy1978 (Mar 20, 2020)

Immortal1 said:


> Have a funny one for you - wife has a 40g cube. Yes, pretty heavily planted but not solid. Had a large (>3" long) Siamese algea eater in there that I wanted to move to another tank. Spent more than an hour looking for him and finally gave up - assumed he jumped out the back. Two days later I see him swimming along the front glass. How is that possible??? LOL


My candy stripe loach was missing for months in the 29g bowfront. I searched the tank and even had my hands in there running through the plants. Searched the floor and all around where the tank was in the old room. One day he came out while I was watching.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Some quick updates...I am forgoing the moving bed (for now) as I just can’t figure out a reliable way of keeping the K1 in the sump contained. It just keeps plugging up the 5 mm holes drain holes and causing the water to overflow the top. Because of the center brace in the tank and location of pipes I wasn’t able to fashion anything that could fit into the tank to use as a roof to the moving bed filter. I tried drilling a cutting board and the angles just didn’t work to get it in. I tried wrapping plastic screen around egg crate and still had the same issue. I have captured all the K1 and put them in bags and added porter sponge 10, 20, and 30 PPI) to the sump to provide more bacteria and help polish the water.









The K1 isn’t in bags yet but same idea. A bonus is that the sump is much quieter.

The house was supposed to be built with a dedicated 20 amp circuit. When putting this together realized the original electrician added 20 amp upstairs for the tank but forgot one in the basement. To make matters worse the fish room was on the same circuit as the ejector pit. I had two 20’s added.

















I had an electrician do this. I will mess with outlets and switches by there is no way I’m opening the fuse box to add whole circuits. Two 20’s are overkill but wasn’t much extra as they were already running the wire and doing the conduit.

Finally, some people asked condensation issues and were right...I was having some in the tank. I added some computer exhaust fans to help. I currently have them blowing out of the tank but can easily change them if blowing in would be better.









I’m not happy with my sump room. It is just too janky looking as is not up the same standard as the main display. Maybe not soon but some updates to the fish room will be happening.

I still can routinely find 8 of the 9 corries. I think one may not have survived. They have been in the tank for a week now and seem to doing well. The one thing that is very annoying is that they are not aggressive about eating. I drop food in and they don’t seem to make any effort to got get it! I assume they are eating it at some point but have yet to witness it.

I realized when changing socks that I think I have lost a lot of shrimp to the overflow and filter socks. I found five shrimp in the socks when chAnging then yesterday. I saved the 5 but have no idea about how many were lost to the washing machine not realizing they were in There.

Finally - yesterday I noticed a snail explosion in the tank. Tons of baby snails. I know they will be self limiting so not worried yet. Plus - can always get some loaches or assassin snails to take care of them if there get to be too many. (I kind of like the assassin snail idea...I watched some YouTube videos of them and they are really interesting. My biggest concern is scratching the tank with all of them when cleaning it.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

FWIW, my experience with Cory's is they really don't eat fish food like other fish (especially not like my rainbow fish). The seem much happier swimming along and digging into the substrate for whatever they can find. 
Depending on how much food you have added, you likely will have a small snail explosion. As you already noted, usually not a big deal.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Keep up the good work, nice idea with the computer fans in the hood!


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## ryubui (Jul 14, 2014)

Freaking insane tank lol...im still in awe.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I added some questions to the water chemistry forum. I figured it helps the search function and others to keep specific topics in the same area vs a build thread.

CO2 Question (https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...arameters/1307883-question-measuring-co2.html). 

Water Treatment Question (https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...85-water-treatment-question.html#post11338077)


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

A few small additions today...20 more Cory cats and 2 plecos (Alenquer Tiger and Imperial Tiger). All are about an inch or smaller.



































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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

One more -










I wish you could edit Tapatalk!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

And the other one!











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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

Bet the Corys will be happy with all there new friends to patrol with.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Quint said:


> Bet the Corys will be happy with all there new friends to patrol with.



So far they are a lot more active. It’s fun to watch. 

One of the things I was disappointed in with salt water is the lack of ability to have schools of fish in retail aquariums. 

I am really looking forward to my next fish purchase but am having a hard time deciding. I was thinking ember tetra but also really like rummy nose tetra and cardinal tetras. As right now I am leaning towards some angel fish eventually it might be better to go with the larger cardinals.

Tomorrow I will be back to Rainbow fish!


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## sbo80 (Oct 13, 2019)

fftfk said:


> 1000’s...I started with 20 red, 20 yellow, and 20 blue...


If they are all the same species of neos, they will interbreed and you'll end up with a tank full of brown shrimp. You can call them "chocolate shrimp" if it makes you feel better. That's what I do. After a while large colonies of only a single color will also start to get lots of browns. Keeping them colored up requires catching and culling the brown ones as much as possible.


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## vacko000 (Jul 10, 2019)

For the tank that size you will need at least 200 cardinals to even notice them in there. I had about 50 in my 40 gallon and that was about OK.....
Angels you can have as much as 30 or even a bit more in there with no problems.


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

Just get some Endlers and give them a bit of time. They'll fill the tank up.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

sbo80 said:


> If they are all the same species of neos, they will interbreed and you'll end up with a tank full of brown shrimp. You can call them "chocolate shrimp" if it makes you feel better. That's what I do. After a while large colonies of only a single color will also start to get lots of browns. Keeping them colored up requires catching and culling the brown ones as much as possible.



Well - at the rate they are getting sucked into the overflow and meeting their end in the filter socks I may not even have to worry another!


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Shrimp are magicians (from genus Houdinius or ChrisAngelicus lol) and it never ceases to amaze me where I find them. I have had batches live in Canister Filters (I called them Filter Shrimp, Neocaridina davidi 'Rena XPus'). When I designing my overflow, I will be not be using teeth, as they seem to be the main reason for Shrimp finding their way into the Sump.

Gary


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## KaylSoftpaws (Aug 23, 2019)

Awesome looking tank! If you don't mind my asking, what are the dimensions on it? I don't remember seeing them mentioned anywhere. I'm looking at getting a 300, but the footprint dimensions I have to work with with mean it'd be 31" tall if I go with the 300, and it occurred to me that height might make planting difficult.


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## ThaiGuy (Apr 1, 2020)

Check Silvertip tetras for a great schooling and very active fish. Males really color up nice and they can get to about 2.5 inches. I also have a 300 planted, by no means any comparison to your setup but I have been researching schooling fish for quite a while now. In fact if have several types now that I have been considering. Keep in mind also. There are true schooling fish and shoaling. Very different. For schooling I have been trialing the following: Silvertip, Penguin tetra, Bloodfin tetra and Lambchop Rasbora. All are nice in their own way but I have settled on the silver tips. Cardinals and neons are shoaling not schooling, I believe


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

it would be awesome to have a large school of tetras swimming back and forth
Rummy nose definitely swim back and forth and I've seen them encourage other shy fish to come and swim with them but I have also see them scare off very timid fish. 

Since the tank is pretty long some rose line sharks darting back and forth would be awesome!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

KaylSoftpaws said:


> Awesome looking tank! If you don't mind my asking, what are the dimensions on it? I don't remember seeing them mentioned anywhere. I'm looking at getting a 300, but the footprint dimensions I have to work with with mean it'd be 31" tall if I go with the 300, and it occurred to me that height might make planting difficult.



The tank is 96x32x24. It is a custom made tank by zero edge aquariums so not a standard size.


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## KaylSoftpaws (Aug 23, 2019)

fftfk said:


> The tank is 96x32x24. It is a custom made tank by zero edge aquariums so not a standard size.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nice! Thanks.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I bought the Tunze Moonlight Photo Sensor (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/turbelle-moonlight-photo-sensor-7097-050-tunze.html) without really knowing precisely what it is or how it works. I wasn’t able to find any really good reviews of it. 

It essentially serves two functions. It works as an automated timer for your power heads turning them off when the lights turn off and back on when they turn on. Second, it works as a moonlight on your tank turning on when the lights turn off and off when I’m. All in all it works fairly well so far.


































It doesn’t light up the tank that much but works well as a moonlight. I really like that it uses a white light versus a lot of competitors blue lights. For the price of it I would recommend it if you have tunze power heads. Of course for the price of the power heads it should be already included but that is another story. 

Also...a package arrived today...










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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

oh man, what a tease! 

are you going to get it all set up with an apex?


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

deciding what to stock this tank with is gonna be HARD - I would be stumped, personally!

Tons of cardinals and some apistos could be kinda cool, though going full angelfish would be cool too... too many options!


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

sbo80 said:


> If they are all the same species of neos, they will interbreed and you'll end up with a tank full of brown shrimp. You can call them "chocolate shrimp" if it makes you feel better. That's what I do. After a while large colonies of only a single color will also start to get lots of browns. Keeping them colored up requires catching and culling the brown ones as much as possible.



Actually it would result in wild types, chocolates are no where near the same as what the results would be. Kind of like saying you would get all painted red cherries from them cross breeding. Now if you want to call them brindle colored that may work for some of them but most will end up being a light natural colored shrimp.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Added a thread to the algae forum:


A couple of Algae questions:
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...ad.php?t=1308533&share_type=t&link_source=app


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

An update on lighting - 

If you have read through the build thread so far you know I have 5 Kessil lights for my tank. I had the narrow beam reflectors on the lights to really focus the light in my tank and prevent this:






.

I was running them at 80% for 5 hours each day and still having a bit of algae. I determined that a PAR Value of about 70-80 was ideal from reading the 2 Hour Aquarist (https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/blogs/beginners-planted-tank-101/prevent-algae-growth & https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/blogs/light-3pillars/par_for_planted_tank).

I rented an Apogee MQ-510 Underwater Par Meter from Bulk Reef Supply and set about getting some measurements. 













While this is my attempt at scientifically setting the lights I stress that my measurements should not be considered scientific. It was my first time using a PAR meter. In addition, I originally started getting measurements from the whole tank but determined it was too inconsistent/shaded in the back part of the tank due to the plant growth. All measurements presented are at substrate level in the front third of the tank in a bed of dwarf hair grass. The front third was divided into 9 sections and I tried to get a consistent measurement from each. The measurements:








Wow...80% was way too much light hitting 200 PAR in the middle of the tank. I wasn't very happy with these results as there was an incredible hot spot in the middle of the tank with rapid fall off towards the sides. 

I took the narrow beam reflectors off and redid the measurements. While I didn't take as detailed notes from 100% to 5% I am much happier with the outcome. I settled on a power rating of 65% which resulted in PAR readings of:







Much better compared to 65% with the narrow beam reflectors on:







I will keep the narrow beam reflectors and just use them when we have people over. 

My light schedule is currently:
10:20 AM - Turn on and ramp up
11:05 AM - 65% Intensity
5:00 PM - Begin ramping down
6:45 PM - 25% Light Intensity 
9:00 PM - Light Off and moonlight on.

It has only been a few days on this schedule and the algae is still around. If need to I will return to on at noon and off at 5:00 PM with a max 65% intensity.

A few interesting tidbits in testing the lights out:
Maximum Par at Substrate with100% White light - 230 PAR
Maximum Par At Substrate with 100% Blue light - 244 PAR
Maximum PAR just under water surface directly under a light 1050 PAR
Outside PAR reading - 2200 PAR

Next update will be a description of the my water change system.


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## FischAutoTechGarten (Jul 11, 2003)

Thank you for sharing those results. That is the thing I dislike about LED lighting the most. It is bothersome to be sitting on a sofa and seeing those bright points of light. I have reflectors on my little Ecoxotic Stunner Strips to direct the light down rather than out.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

I just took PAR readings in my tank too and it was interesting to see how fine tuning the power to the LEDs gave a different PAR readings. I noticed a big drop between 30% and 60% but it was nonlinear. I know for me there was a bit of overlap between light bars so I got hot spots right in the middle but the corners of the tank are in the 50's so I'm going to grow low light plants on there.

I saw your algae thread and it looks like BBA. have you been playing with the CO2 levels? maybe upping them a bit can help. The best thing I have found has just been spraying the black growth with h202 every day for at least 5 days. After that it actually starts to die off by turning reddish color. the only plants that I have seen being hurt by this treatment are my riccia and mini pelia that usually die off. however I would rather get rid of the bba than keep these plants. 

I agree with the 6 hour photoperiod, that's what I'm running on mine, although I wonder if the 25% power with it's 50 par middle spot from 6-9pm would also be impacting the algae growth. can you run them at 15% and still see the fish in the evening?


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## bwagner (Apr 18, 2007)

fftfk said:


> A few interesting tidbits in testing the lights out:
> Maximum Par at Substrate with100% White light - 230 PAR
> Maximum Par At Substrate with 100% Blue light - 244 PAR
> Maximum PAR just under water surface directly under a light 1050 PAR
> Outside PAR reading - 2200 PAR


I have Kessils 360x as well. I noticed the highest PAR level with the color setting to 50% and if I changed the color spectrum to either 0 (reddish) or 100% the par dropped. Also noticed PAR would increase with adding the "red" and "amber" lights as well. 

The par drops significantly with depth, I run mine at 100% and 2" off the water to get enough par at the substrate level. I'm glad you shared your reading with the reflector on, as i almost purchased them for my lights thinking it would help some of the high light demand plants to start growing when I first put them in the tank. 

I wish they would put one blue LED in the light so there could be "moonlight" option.


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

Ok. Enough is enough. Don't make me beg...

More tank photos please!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

monkeyruler90 said:


> I just took PAR readings in my tank too and it was interesting to see how fine tuning the power to the LEDs gave a different PAR readings. I noticed a big drop between 30% and 60% but it was nonlinear. I know for me there was a bit of overlap between light bars so I got hot spots right in the middle but the corners of the tank are in the 50's so I'm going to grow low light plants on there.
> 
> I saw your algae thread and it looks like BBA. have you been playing with the CO2 levels? maybe upping them a bit can help. The best thing I have found has just been spraying the black growth with h202 every day for at least 5 days. After that it actually starts to die off by turning reddish color. the only plants that I have seen being hurt by this treatment are my riccia and mini pelia that usually die off. however I would rather get rid of the bba than keep these plants.
> 
> I agree with the 6 hour photoperiod, that's what I'm running on mine, although I wonder if the 25% power with it's 50 par middle spot from 6-9pm would also be impacting the algae growth. can you run them at 15% and still see the fish in the evening?



I seem to have the BBA under better control. I upped the CO2 and am changing filter socks and water more often.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

bwagner said:


> I have Kessils 360x as well. I noticed the highest PAR level with the color setting to 50% and if I changed the color spectrum to either 0 (reddish) or 100% the par dropped. Also noticed PAR would increase with adding the "red" and "amber" lights as well.
> 
> The par drops significantly with depth, I run mine at 100% and 2" off the water to get enough par at the substrate level. I'm glad you shared your reading with the reflector on, as i almost purchased them for my lights thinking it would help some of the high light demand plants to start growing when I first put them in the tank.
> 
> I wish they would put one blue LED in the light so there could be "moonlight" option.



That’s interesting. I never thought about doing a 50/50 mix of the light. It makes sense though.

I will keep the lenses for when we have people over but will go without most of the time. The lenses did what they were designed to do which is focus the light and limit spread. For planted tanks I think the hot spot they create is just too intense. Plus - the par meter confirmed the lights are more than strong enough to create the required intensity at the substrate.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

mourip said:


> Ok. Enough is enough. Don't make me beg...
> 
> More tank photos please!



As you wish -


























It’s time to trim the hair grass. It has spread very nicely and has really filled in.

















The rotala indica is a pain. It grows very fast and spreads everywhere. It’s really getting too tall for the tank. These pictures are after I trimmed it a week ago. I am doing research on a replacement for it but not sure what I will go with yet.

















I am looking to add my next bunch of small fish. I want to add about 100 Rummynose Tetras but am having a hard time finding them in quantity online. A local fish store has about 50 of them but when I went to look there was a dead one in the tank and they had two tanks listed and priced as Cardinal tetras that were neon tetras. Very disappointing. 


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Great job with that hairgrass! It has really taken off!

Curious how things overall are going with the tank, like your maintenance routine including water changes.

This is a fun one to follow along with!


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## ProndFarms (Sep 3, 2012)

> I am looking to add my next bunch of small fish. I want to add about 100 Rummynose Tetras but am having a hard time finding them in quantity online. A local fish store has about 50 of them but when I went to look there was a dead one in the tank and they had two tanks listed and priced as Cardinal tetras that were neon tetras. Very disappointing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Check out livingartwork.us , I'm sure they can help you out.

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

ProndFarms said:


> Check out livingartwork.us , I'm sure they can help you out.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



Thanks! I just placed an order.


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## vacko000 (Jul 10, 2019)

looking nice...
The stems can be a pain sometime, but they are great at the start to take out all of the exes nutrients. Try trimming it as low as you can, that way you can add a week or so before doing it again....
Maybe try something like ludwigia arcuata, it is a bit slower I think...


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I agree the hairgrass came in nicely and looks really good. 

I'll go out on a limb and say your use of that number of stems in this tank will soon come to an end. Unless your really into the art of cultivating them, trimming will get old fast and in a big deep tank you won't want to do it long term. 

Having the stems is a mixed bag, because I one hand the trimming is a pain on the other hand all that growth is alot of uptake and could very well be preventing worse algae issues if they weren't there.

If you do want to remove them I would slowly do so and replace with an epiphyte like java fern. The java would expose more of the wood and probably give the tank more continuity left to right. I would also plant the hairgrass in the left front as well for more uptake and it will make the tank look even larger with the continuous flow from left to right. 

You could still keep some nice stems in one large managable stand and let them flow to the top and hang over.


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

I've had trouble keeping rotala under control in a low tech tank. [emoji1]

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## dez275 (Dec 5, 2018)

I ordered 200 rummy nose tetras for my 180 for $200 from Uncle Sams Discus. They all lived and are doing great a year later. Just be careful ordering discus from them.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

*Water Change*

A quick update on my water change process:

I run tap water through a modified RO system with a sediment filter, 5 micron carbon block, and second .5 micron carbon block filter. Even though the filter is based on a RO system I do not run a RO membrane to avoid waste water. The water is stored in a 55 gallon poly tank. The filtration system is controlled by an Avast Marine Barrel Tender which monitors the level of water in the poly tank and automatically refills it when it gets low. Daily, a Neptune Dos changes 4 gallons of water between 11:00 PM and 10:00 AM. In addition, the poly tank contains a heater controlled by an Inkbird controller and a Sicce 4.0 piped up to the sump and into return chamber. The sump has a 1 inch pvc drain with ball valve from the filter sock section to a utility sink. By opening the ball valve and turning on the sicce pump I can do a 50 gallon temperature matched water change in about 10 minutes. Having the water drain from close to the drain and fresh water pumped into the return chamber hopefully limits draining new water from the tank. Here is a picture describing everything:








In addition, here is a quick video of the fast water change in process:





Edit: A) I spent all that time making an annotated picture and don't know how to upload it at a resolution that it is readable and B) I need to get better at making videos.


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## ProndFarms (Sep 3, 2012)

fftfk said:


> A quick update on my water change process:
> 
> I run tap water through a modified RO system with a sediment filter, 5 micron carbon block, and second .5 micron carbon block filter. Even though the filter is based on a RO system I do not run a RO membrane to avoid waste water. The water is stored in a 55 gallon poly tank. The filtration system is controlled by an Avast Marine Barrel Tender which monitors the level of water in the poly tank and automatically refills it when it gets low. Daily, a Neptune Dos changes 4 gallons of water between 11:00 PM and 10:00 AM. In addition, the poly tank contains a heater controlled by an Inkbird controller and a Sicce 4.0 piped up to the sump and into return chamber. The sump has a 1 inch pvc drain with ball valve from the filter sock section to a utility sink. By opening the ball valve and turning on the sicce pump I can do a 50 gallon temperature matched water change in about 10 minutes. Having the water drain from close to the drain and fresh water pumped into the return chamber hopefully limits draining new water from the tank.



Any particular reason you don't drain the water first and then turn the refill pump on to eliminate the chance of new water being disposed of? I'm not sure what your tank turnover is, but given you are changing roughly 20-25% of your system volume, it's probably safe to assume that you are in fact disposing of some 'new' water. That being said - I'm only asking because I'm contemplating something similar on my own tank and curious what your reasons for and against this are.


And don't worry about the pics, I struggle even getting them to show up in my journal, so you are much farther ahead than me in that aspect!


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

May I ask where you got your 55 gallon poly tank? That style of tank might suit my needs.


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

I would drain first then refill. As stated earlier, you are dumping some of your new water as well. 

Gary


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

ProndFarms said:


> Any particular reason you don't drain the water first and then turn the refill pump on to eliminate the chance of new water being disposed of? I'm not sure what your tank turnover is, but given you are changing roughly 20-25% of your system volume, it's probably safe to assume that you are in fact disposing of some 'new' water. That being said - I'm only asking because I'm contemplating something similar on my own tank and curious what your reasons for and against this are.
> 
> 
> And don't worry about the pics, I struggle even getting them to show up in my journal, so you are much farther ahead than me in that aspect!



The main reason is that it takes a long time for the bean animal to generate a siphon due to the long horizontal runs of pipe. I just prefer to not have to listen to the gurgling/deal with dialing it in again. 

The way I figure the new water enters the return chamber is immediately sent into the main tank. There is no real way for it to back up to the drain as long as the input and output our relatively balanced. The water enters the main tank and is pushed away from the overflow towards the furthest “wall” before heading back to the overflow. Seeing as it has to fully mix in the display tank and filter through the display tank before draining via the overflow I just don’t think I’m loosing that much new water. 


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

zivvel said:


> May I ask where you got your 55 gallon poly tank? That style of tank might suit my needs.



I got it at Blain’s farm and fleet. 


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

Yeah I see the logic of putting new water into the outflow and it being taken away, makes sense to me.
Give it a try and see how the nitrate levels do for the next couple of weeks. with the bio load and plants I don't think it'll be an issue.


How's the apex? have you been able to get most of the maintenance automated? is the PH probe controlling the CO2 as well?


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

When I had my 280 setup at my last house, I had a 90 gallon sump and was able to do a 35-40 gallon water change without turning off the return pump/stopping the overflows. Wasn't always changing as much water as I wanted, but it was easy enough to do more changes.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

monkeyruler90 said:


> Yeah I see the logic of putting new water into the outflow and it being taken away, makes sense to me.
> Give it a try and see how the nitrate levels do for the next couple of weeks. with the bio load and plants I don't think it'll be an issue.
> 
> 
> How's the apex? have you been able to get most of the maintenance automated? is the PH probe controlling the CO2 as well?



The apex is great but the company can be a little bit of a pain at times. I bought two DOS units and one of the motors was DOA. I’m going through a whole RMA process to get it diagnosed, etc. 

It’s my second apex system and is fairly bulletproof (despite the RMA). My first one ran for 3 years without a problem and was able to sell for about 50% of the cost. I liked the form factor and build (metal) of the first gen better but this generation does add some useful features (12 volt control). The PH probe is acting as the CO2 controller.

The Apex is one of those things you don’t need but once you have used one will never want to be without. 


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Asteroid said:


> I agree the hairgrass came in nicely and looks really good.
> 
> I'll go out on a limb and say your use of that number of stems in this tank will soon come to an end. Unless your really into the art of cultivating them, trimming will get old fast and in a big deep tank you won't want to do it long term.
> 
> ...


This sounds wise! :nerd:

I agree!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

andrewss said:


> This sounds wise! :nerd:
> 
> I agree!



How would you go about planting large amounts of Java Fern? My understanding is that you should not plant it in the substrate.


If not substrate, what ever Java Fern size plants are recommended?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

fftfk said:


> How would you go about planting large amounts of Java Fern? My understanding is that you should not plant it in the substrate.
> 
> 
> If not substrate, what ever Java Fern size plants are recommended?


You just attach it to any hardscape. Gluing is the easiest. You already have some wood in there, Once attached the rhizome will grow along the wood and new leaves will form. If you don't have enough hardscape, you can just add a piece of wood or rock where your replacing the stems. Eventually you won't see much of the rock/wood if you don't want to. Technically they can "sit" on the soil with just the roots buried, but it's much better attached to something as you have more control over the way it looks. 

I just mentioned Java Fern since the leaves can get large for a large tank like yours, but there are a ton of others like anubias, bolbitis heudelotii 

If you look at my tank in my signature link, I have a ton of Bolbitis attached to hardscape.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

bwagner said:


> I have Kessils 360x as well. I noticed the highest PAR level with the color setting to 50% and if I changed the color spectrum to either 0 (reddish) or 100% the par dropped. Also noticed PAR would increase with adding the "red" and "amber" lights as well.
> 
> The par drops significantly with depth, I run mine at 100% and 2" off the water to get enough par at the substrate level. I'm glad you shared your reading with the reflector on, as i almost purchased them for my lights thinking it would help some of the high light demand plants to start growing when I first put them in the tank.
> 
> I wish they would put one blue LED in the light so there could be "moonlight" option.



Here is a much better description of the impact of the lenses:








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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

100 Tetra’s arrived!!! All appear to be alive.










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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

fftfk said:


> I got it at Blain’s farm and fleet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ha, you must live close (ish) to me. Not many Blain's around.

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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Ok, now I am curious as well ! There is a Blain's like 2 miles from where I work.


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> Ok, now I am curious as well ! There is a Blain's like 2 miles from where I work.


I seem to be centered in them. I have to go there relatively often for work stuff.

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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

Excited about the tetras!

are you dumping them straight into the tank?
I'm definitely a big believer on a 2 week quarantine in a spare tank ( even a tupperware works ) just to make sure you can keep an eye on them and they don't impact the rest of the tank or the current inhabitants. 

you never know what these new fish can bring with them even if the supplier qt them


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I am in Downers Grove (a western suburb of Chicago).

Bump:


Bunsen Honeydew said:


> Ha, you must live close (ish) to me. Not many Blain's around.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Bump:


monkeyruler90 said:


> Excited about the tetras!
> 
> are you dumping them straight into the tank?
> I'm definitely a big believer on a 2 week quarantine in a spare tank ( even a tupperware works ) just to make sure you can keep an eye on them and they don't impact the rest of the tank or the current inhabitants.
> ...



I temperature acclimated them and then put them into the tank. I agree about the quarantining but do not have a system set up yet for it. So far they have not been doing great as about 6 have died. I'm really hoping they got injured in transportation and are a full diseased lot. I could not see any evidence of anything wrong with the ones that were pulled out.


Even down 6 they still make for a nice show!
https://youtu.be/ScqrdoqXlTA


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Nice! What a nice show indeed


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

Yeah, you're not too far from me. I'm up about 10 mins west of six flags.

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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Do not even notice you are down six. Nice indeed.

Gary


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## doug105! (Aug 2, 2016)

Is that video still available?

Search didn’t work for me.......


Doug


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Ah! Rummy nose -one of my favorite. They are primarily wild-caught so a bit difficult to acclimate to the aquarium. But, once acclimated they are extremely healthy.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

doug105! said:


> Is that video still available?
> 
> Search didn’t work for me.......
> 
> ...



Which video?


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

This one with the Rummynose? I reposted fftk with links enabled.

Gary


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

fftfk said:


> I am in Downers Grove (a western suburb of Chicago).


Nice! I am about 150 miles West of you.


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## ryubui (Jul 14, 2014)

man that grass grew in nice, cant wait to see it with the tetras...live video when they're in?


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

ryubui said:


> man that grass grew in nice, cant wait to see it with the tetras...live video when they're in?


 @Crazygar got the video to work 3 posts up. I’m very happy with how the grass came in. I think it’s a combination of the substrate used and trimming it. It really does seem to spread vertically after each trim.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Made some additions this weekend:


























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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Gotta love a nice selection of rainbow fish!


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Is that M.praecox I see? If it is, wow, they look spectacular in your tank! Nice job!

Gary


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Crazygar said:


> Is that M.praecox I see? If it is, wow, they look spectacular in your tank! Nice job!
> 
> Gary



It is! There are 6 in the tank.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

fftfk said:


>


What is the Bow in this pic? I don't recognize it.

And BTW tank is looking great!!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Greggz said:


> What is the Bow in this pic? I don't recognize it.
> 
> And BTW tank is looking great!!



I believe the Latin name is M. Assholis. He’s a huge jerk and has basically claimed the area over the grass as his own. Here are all of the other rainbow hiding from him at one of the tank:









And here he is lording over the grass:









I might actually have to capture him in an acclimation box/give him away if this keeps up like this.

Thanks for the comment on the tank. Here are a few full tank shots:


















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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

fftfk said:


> I believe the Latin name is M. *Assholis*. He’s a *huge jerk* ...


Are you kidding. LOL

P.S. Tank looks good!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

fftfk said:


> I believe the Latin name is M. Assholis. He’s a huge jerk and has basically claimed the area over the grass as his own. Here are all of the other rainbow hiding from him at one of the tank:


I've see most species available in the hobby, and I don't recognize that one. My guess is he is a hybrid. And that would explain the behavior. Hybrid's are well known to be very aggressive compared to other Bows.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Greggz said:


> I've see most species available in the hobby, and I don't recognize that one. My guess is he is a hybrid. And that would explain the behavior. Hybrid's are well known to be very aggressive compared to other Bows.



I’m thinking he might be this type: https://aquaticarts.com/products/goyder-river-banded-rainbowfish

I will call the store today and see what they say. I should have gotten it while there.


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## derecs (Jul 1, 2020)

Wow, that hairgrass! Mine has definitely not carpeted like that. Planted May 12th. It's struggling with some algae right now, which tells me it's not happily growing.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

fftfk said:


> I’m thinking he might be this type: https://aquaticarts.com/products/goyder-river-banded-rainbowfish
> 
> I will call the store today and see what they say. I should have gotten it while there.
> 
> ...


Definitely not Goyder River.

There are a few known hybrids out there, sometimes people even make up names for them. Crossing Rainbow is sold in the hobby by some fish farms, but is a hybrid.

Yours is likely this one. Maybe a mix of "Crossing" Rainbow and something else? Who knows. But if you aren't breeding makes little difference.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

derecs said:


> Wow, that hairgrass! Mine has definitely not carpeted like that. Planted May 12th. It's struggling with some algae right now, which tells me it's not happily growing.



Mine really started taking off and filling in when I started trimming the length. I had some issues with algae as well. It finally seems like I’m getting ahead of it. One thing that helped me with Algae in
The grass in particular is manual removal. I would use a fork and comb the grass plus twirl it up like it was spaghetti. It was a nice meditative activity.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Greggz said:


> Definitely not Goyder River.
> 
> There are a few known hybrids out there, sometimes people even make up names for them. Crossing Rainbow is sold in the hobby by some fish farms, but is a hybrid.
> 
> Yours is likely this one. Maybe a mix of "Crossing" Rainbow and something else? Who knows. But if you aren't breeding makes little difference.



I think you might be right on it being a hybrid. That picture is very close to
It.

Question - he is still being a jerk and has claimed about half of the tank as his own. What is the best manner to deal with this? I had two ideas: one - add more of the hybrid variety to lessen/spread out its dominance. Two - remove him from the tank which would also mean catching two more hybrid fish. I could return/exchange him or give him away to another hobbyist. 


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

fftfk said:


> I think you might be right on it being a hybrid. That picture is very close to
> It.
> 
> Question - he is still being a jerk and has claimed about half of the tank as his own. What is the best manner to deal with this? I had two ideas: one - add more of the hybrid variety to lessen/spread out its dominance. Two - remove him from the tank which would also mean catching two more hybrid fish. I could return/exchange him or give him away to another hobbyist.


Those hybrids are known to be much more aggressive than pure bred Rainbows, and IMO adding more is unlikely to change that. 

Personally I would remove the hybrids, but I am active in the Rainbow fish community and hybrids in general are frowned upon. Breeders go to great lengths to keep species pure and hate to see someone selling these. 

A group of top Rainbow breeders have been working with some of the well known fish farms to provide them good stock to breed with. So over the last five years or so there more species available on a wider scale. As a result, there are very few hybrids being sold by LFS anymore. Did you ever contact the seller to find out what they know about them or where they go them from.


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

fftfk said:


> I believe the Latin name is M. Assholis. He’s a huge jerk and has basically claimed the area over the grass as his own.


I had a 75 gallon heavily planted community tank and one of a small group of White Clouds was from that same "M. Assholis" sub-species. He took over 2\3 of the tank and had the rest of the fish cowering behind plants in the other 1/3. It made me crazy...

I finally managed to trap him by using two nets with some food in one. It took a while but nothing is worse that an agitated tank. I wanted to give him a burial at sea with a one flush salute but the better half of me prevailed and a compassionate LFS owner plopped him back in a tank for some other poor soul to endure.

I suggest relocation but will be in awe if you are able to accomplish that in your beautiful epic sized tank. Please blog that effort if you undertake it!

Best,
Paul


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

mourip said:


> I had a 75 gallon heavily planted community tank and one of a small group of White Clouds was from that same "M. Assholis" sub-species. He took over 2\3 of the tank and had the rest of the fish cowering behind plants in the other 1/3. It made me crazy...
> 
> I finally managed to trap him by using two nets with some food in one. It took a while but nothing is worse that an agitated tank. I wanted to give him a burial at sea with a one flush salute but the better half of me prevailed and a compassionate LFS owner plopped him back in a tank for some other poor soul to endure.
> 
> ...



I know the pain of catching something I. A tank. I spent 3 months catching a mantis shrimp in my last saltwater tank! 


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## ryubui (Jul 14, 2014)

fftfk said:


> @Crazygar got the video to work 3 posts up. I’m very happy with how the grass came in. I think it’s a combination of the substrate used and trimming it. It really does seem to spread vertically after each trim.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very nice! Would love a full on shot of the tank...i would watch this for days lol.


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## robmcd (Sep 8, 2020)

Spectacular tank and layout!! It has great flow. I am one of the few that thinks that too much rotala is never enough


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

Updated whole tank photo please. Don't make us beg


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## Pnw-Oto (Nov 7, 2019)

Wow just read through this whole thing and I have dreamed of doing something on this grand of a scale. Will be a couple years before I can pull something like this off so for now I shall live vicariously through your tank.

Seriously stunning work you are doing here man.


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## DBridges (Sep 22, 2009)

Pretty amazing tank! The cabinetry is especially nice. Would love to see some updated pictures.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

My apologies for not posting more...I hurt my back severely in early August and am only now getting back to moving around normally. As you can imagine the tank has not seen it’s normal maintenance and became incredibly overgrown. The stem plants were to the water line and then some. They were blocking a lot of the water flow so I had Cyanobacteria outbreak on the grass. I have a fair bit of algae growing in the tank as well.

Today was my first big cleaning in a month. I’m going to do more tomorrow. The hair grass really needs some TLC.


































Keep in mind...these are the after pictures. Here’s all of that I cut out:









I really have to start giving this away to people! There were some nice trimmings.

I lost all of the bosemani and one of the mystery hybrid rainbow fish. I’m pretty sure the hybrid bullied them to death as they were constantly hiding. I’m going to catch and give away/return both hybrids. Let me know if you’re in the Chicago area and interested. 


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

These two are the ones I’m giving away - 











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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

How are the Rummy Nose doing?

Do you have any shrimp or snails to work the algae?


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm sorry about your back and your casualties.

Your hairgrass field amazes me every time I see a picture of it. It's stunning: simple but well-done. I have too much collectoritis to have something that vast and beautiful!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

mourip said:


> How are the Rummy Nose doing?
> 
> Do you have any shrimp or snails to work the algae?



The rummy nose are doing fine. I would say I still have about 1/3. I bought them through Petaquaria so the losses are to be expected but definitely need to get a QT tank going! Financially, I’m still better off than having bought them at the local store which wanted $7 per. 



















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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

zivvel said:


> I'm sorry about your back and your casualties.
> 
> Your hairgrass field amazes me every time I see a picture of it. It's stunning: simple but well-done. I have too much collectoritis to have something that vast and beautiful!



Thank you. I got the grass trimmed and cleaned up today. I’m going to siphon/turkey Bastet blast it a few times this week to get all of the detritus out of there.



























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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

mourip said:


> How are the Rummy Nose doing?
> 
> Do you have any shrimp or snails to work the algae?



Forgot your second question...I do have some shrimp but no idea how many. When trimming the grass today I was surprised at how many times guys were in there! Someone had babies.


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## geekindenial (Oct 27, 2015)

What is petaquaria? 🙂 would be good to know


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

fftfk said:


> The rummy nose are doing fine. I would say I still have about 1/3.


Glad to hear that many are doing well. They are among my favorites. Very placid and school nicely. 

Probably just as well that your bio-load is down until you get your tank into balance!

Hope that your back is better.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

geekindenial said:


> What is petaquaria? 🙂 would be good to know



It’s liveaquaria.com. Was a great company who was bought by petco. Quality appears to have gone down.

In their defense - I spoke with two local stores who said rummynose ship poorly and they have similar loss characteristics when first getting them in. Once you’ve gotten through that die off they are pretty hardy. It’s really hard to find Rummynose in bulk. I had an order with a different company who is said to breed fish who kept delaying the order. Finally, they told me their order was going to be coming in on a Tuesday and they would ship to me on Wednesday. Maybe it was just wording but I Thought it was pretty apparent they were just trans shipping. If that was how the fish were coming in I figured better just to deal with petco for the lower price.


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## zemnar (Sep 6, 2013)

fftfk, 

Great job on your tank and the internals. I love watching this site, not only for the scaping ideas but also for these journals so you get to see the pixie dust behind the magical tanks you guys let us enjoy.

The carpet of grass is amazing, I've tried and failed 3 times to grow grass due to my fish selection, so I'm very jealous.

Wish you the best going forward and keep up the great work and posts!

Brian


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

the hairgrass looks so nice! I have the dwarf version so it's only an inch tall but this looks like a beautiful lawn! 

Sorry to hear about the tetras. yeah, they're finicky but seems like you were able to maintain some. 

How are you feeling about the tank growing in? feel like it's what you had imagined or are you wanting to change any part of the scape?


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

monkeyruler90 said:


> the hairgrass looks so nice! I have the dwarf version so it's only an inch tall but this looks like a beautiful lawn!
> 
> Sorry to hear about the tetras. yeah, they're finicky but seems like you were able to maintain some.
> 
> How are you feeling about the tank growing in? feel like it's what you had imagined or are you wanting to change any part of the scape?



It’s funny you should ask as I did a little rescaling today. I am happy with how the hair grass has grown in. Due to the 24 inch depth of the tank it is a hassle to trim and the clippings get everywhere but very worth it.

I’m happy with the Ludwigia but will probably end up pulling most of it out at some point. It is pretty but just gets too tall. When I made my plan it was based on the swords being the tallest in the tank. 

The Rotala Indica is a weed invented by the devil. That stuff just grows everywhere. It worked at the beginning to soak up nutrients but now it is out of control. I tore a bunch out today and replaced with Ludwigia clippings in order to start getting rid and open up a lot more flow in the tank. 

I’ve got my power head turned up higher to get some more water flow to help clean out some of the detritus that has built up. Does anyone have an effective manner of vacuuming substrate while keeping water in the tank? I bought one of those “water vacuums” off amazon and it clogs every 20 seconds.

The water is cloudy due to pulling up all the rotala.

















This last photo - keep in mind both the rotala and ludwigia were grown to the surface of the water to get an idea of how much was cleared out.









I ordered a tissue culture of Eleocharis Parvulus from green leaf aquarium. I’ve never used a tissue culture before so am interested to see how this works. 

I also ordered some stuff from them...but that will be another post


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

Tissue cultures take a bit more time to adapt. Also, there is no apparent root system, which really does not matter, just press a small clump into the substrate with your finger and gravity provides the direction for the roots. 

Planting though will be a real pain. 

Gary


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

fftfk said:


> I’ve got my power head turned up higher to get some more water flow to help clean out some of the detritus that has built up. Does anyone have an effective manner of vacuuming substrate while keeping water in the tank? I bought one of those “water vacuums” off amazon and it clogs every 20 seconds
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The Fluval FX4 / FX6 canister filter has a gravel vac option...basically turn the filter into a vacuum cleaner


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Tissue culture vs non?????


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## Crazygar (Nov 16, 2006)

That is easier to plant and will get rooted quicker. When I dry start, I always do Tissue cultures but when the tank is full of water, I aim for rooted. 

Gary


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Crazygar said:


> That is easier to plant and will get rooted quicker. When I dry start, I always do Tissue cultures but when the tank is full of water, I aim for rooted.
> 
> Gary



It was much easier the clean and get into the tank...that’s for sure. Weird stuff...it was like plants packed into snot. Definitely cleaner and easier to get into the tank. It will be interesting to see them versus the potted plants...who grows better, etc.

Anyone have any ideas for a way to set a temp on a hose bib? I’ve come to the conclusion I just won’t be able to keep the grass clean enough using the power heads to stir up detritus...I’m going to have to siphon the tank which means refilling directly into the tank via hose. I’ve found inline carbon blocks but trying to figure a way to get the temperature approximately correct. I do t want to dump 150 gallons of 60 or 90 degree water into the tank.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Must be many different methods of TC and whether they are rooted or not. I've bought around 10 species of TC and all had nice healthy root systems. I usually trim the roots down to make it easier to plant.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

fftfk said:


> Anyone have any ideas for a way to set a temp on a hose bib? I’ve come to the conclusion I just won’t be able to keep the grass clean enough using the power heads to stir up detritus...I’m going to have to siphon the tank which means refilling directly into the tank via hose. I’ve found inline carbon blocks but trying to figure a way to get the temperature approximately correct. I do t want to dump 150 gallons of 60 or 90 degree water into the tank.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think if you're able to install a pressure balance valve ( common in many showers and should not be too expensive) then you'll be able to just set the temperature and just run it from there.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Battling algae! 









I’ve been having a fairly big algae outbreak since August when I hurt my back. I am doing a four day blackout plus a daily 1/3 water change. Additionally, I have turned off fert dosing and am reducing the amount of feeding. I’m fairly certain I was feeding too much. I have an eheim auto feeder and it was set to four rotations daily. I have reduced it to one.

For anyone who has ever done a blackout before - do you turn off or reduce CO2 during it?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

CO2 off for sure. That direct sunlight is probably playing a huge role in algae growth as well! Sounds like too much food as well, 4 x daily seems too much. 

Best of luck! we've all been there before!


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

Phosphate from food plays a major role in algae. I alway keep a bag of phosphate removal in my canister filters. 
The black out may kill it off the algae some but Continue feeding fish too much is the main cause


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

how's the shrimp situation? some amanos would do great in there to eat the dying algae 
snails? 
otos? 

what type of algae are you actually seeing? 

that sucks about hurting your back, but sounds like you were able to get a lot of stuff automated so the tank wasn't a huge burden


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

monkeyruler90 said:


> how's the shrimp situation? some amanos would do great in there to eat the dying algae
> snails?
> otos?
> 
> ...



I spent all last weekend siphoning out as much of the algae and detritus as I could from the tank. Additionally I have removed the auto feeder and am feeding by hand every other day.










I just dropped 38 amano shrimp in. 26 small and 12 large. I’m fairly certain the small ones instantly become fish food. 



















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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Tank Update...still massively battling Algae. These tank shots are about a month after my last big cleaning. Within 1 week Algae was significantly covering everything again. The current status of the tank is:

No ferts added for about 2 months
1 Cube of food during the weekend and two cubes on Wednesday. All food gets eaten within a minute or two.
Approximately 50 Gallon water changes twice a week (1/4 - 1/3 tank every week)
4 Gallons per day continuous water change
CO2 keeping PH at 7.05 via controller (I switched to keeping CO2 on all day versus just on at during lighting hours.)
Parameterd via test kits are fine. I would be surprised if they weren’t though given the amount of plant/algae mass acting as a nutrient sponge.

I am thinking it’s time to do a reboot/rescape. The amount of plants I have should be enough mass to keep algae at bay however it makes it extremely hard to keep the tank clean. I feel a lot of detritus gets trapped no matter how much siphoning I do. It is virtually impossible to siphon the dwarf sag deeply (down near the substrate) without uprooting the plant. With the growth in the back of the tank the a lot of siphoning is done blindly meaning when I can’t see what I’m doing towards the middle of the tank.

Additionally, I think have way too much substrate. I used the calculator to determine how much I needed and dumped it in all at once. The substrate is about 3/4 inches deep on average. I would like to clear a lot out.

My questions - is it time to reboot? I don’t want want to nuke the tank with algaecide given the amount of shrimp that should be in there. 

I’m thinking of maybe trying to reuse the swords. Is this advisable? I know they have algae spores on them but overall seem to be Ok.

It would be very hard to take the hard scape wood out of the tank without deconstructing the canopy which I do not want to do. Any advice on cleaning the wood in the tank?

Any other general advice on rebooting a tank?

I keep getting an error trying to post photos. I’ll add the photos in a follow up post. 


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Photos for previous message. 































What i think is interesting about these photos...the large rock appears much cleaner and algae free than it did in previous posts. I think/hope it is because of the amano shrimp I added to the tank but I have not really seen any shrimp on it...In fact, I don't really see them too much at all. I did see two large ones wandering around last week but that is really it since they were added a month ago.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

That's too bad. What's the light schedule like? Have you fully analyzed how much light you have, PAR wise? Also the tank looks to be 3/4 hairgrass so you might think you have tons of plant mass, but you might not for that size tank/light.

Also how healthy are the stem plants on the left. If they aren't growing 'clean and healthy' then there probably not doing enough in terms of uptake. Not dosing ferts can only hurt you in a hi-tech setup. Ferts are not the cause of your algae. The answer is in the lighting/co2/uptake equation. More light more uptake and co2 is needed. What is your PH drop with the co2?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Direct Sunlight and inconsistent fertilizing could possibly be the main 2 algae culprits. 

I would seriously consider some large daily doses of Excel / Met14, reduce as much ambient and direct sunlight as possible, ensure CO2 is getting a drop checker very lime green / dropping pH a full 1.0, limit the photo period to 5 hours per day max and then perform a few very large water changes .... or prep for a massive water change, does an algaecide then perform the massive water change. 

These should help reset the tank without having to tear it down. 

Also, 3/4" thick substrate isn't all that much, I wouldn't want it any shallower than that. Lots of us run it 3+ inches deep without issue. 

Grab an army of oto cats to help clean the wood, maybe a few dwarf pleco's as well. 

You can spot treat the wood with 3% H2O2 too. 

When I get bad algae, I don't freak out. I open up the algae control tool box and get to work. Just ride out the algae wave, eventually you'll get it under control if you throw a little more work and be a little more precise with a few things. 

What is your fertilizer schedule like?
What is your photoperiod like?
What is the pH drop from degassed tank water - CO2 enriched water?
How much sunlight is getting to the tank?
How much ambient room light is getting to the tank?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> When I get bad algae, I don't freak out. I open up the algae control tool box and get to work. Just ride out the algae wave, eventually you'll get it under control if you throw a little more work and be a little more precise with a few things.
> 
> What is your fertilizer schedule like?
> What is your photoperiod like?
> ...


I love that. Don't freak out. Open up the algae control tool box. Very good words of wisdom.

And those are the same questions I was going to ask. It's probably a combination of a few things that needs to be addressed.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Asteroid said:


> That's too bad. What's the light schedule like? Have you fully analyzed how much light you have, PAR wise? Also the tank looks to be 3/4 hairgrass so you might think you have tons of plant mass, but you might not for that size tank/light.
> 
> Also how healthy are the stem plants on the left. If they aren't growing 'clean and healthy' then there probably not doing enough in terms of uptake. Not dosing ferts can only hurt you in a hi-tech setup. Ferts are not the cause of your algae. The answer is in the lighting/co2/uptake equation. More light more uptake and co2 is needed. What is your PH drop with the co2?


Post #228 (300 Gallon Planted Tank) describes my current lighting. 

Here is the post on my CO2 drop - Question on Measuring CO2 . Looking at the CO2 post I got my PH down to about 6.6 when I was running CO2 on and off. I am not if I have a reason for changing to a maximum low of 7.05. Perhaps I could should return to adding more CO2.



Quagulator said:


> Direct Sunlight and inconsistent fertilizing could possibly be the main 2 algae culprits.
> 
> I would seriously consider some large daily doses of Excel / Met14, reduce as much ambient and direct sunlight as possible, ensure CO2 is getting a drop checker very lime green / dropping pH a full 1.0, limit the photo period to 5 hours per day max and then perform a few very large water changes .... or prep for a massive water change, does an algaecide then perform the massive water change.
> 
> ...


My bad - I didn't mean 3/4" substrate. I meant 3 - 4" of substrate. Fertilizers are off for now. 

This describes my photo-period and light intensity. ((300 Gallon Planted Tank). Lights are on for 9 hours total. Maximum intensity (50%) is for 5 hours.

My initial pH drop is described here (Question on Measuring CO2 ). I switched from having a large pH drop to keeping my pH more steady at 7.05. 

All of our windows in the house have solar 55% window tint film on them with 99% reduction of UV light. This was done not so much for the tank as to protect fading of hardwood floors and furniture. Within the constraints of the window tint - I do get some excess sunlight in the morning. There is a photo a few weeks ago showing the direct sunlight. We have ordered a shade for the window that is providing direct sunlight. The room gets a decent amount of ambient light due to the house being a fairly modern design with large panel windows.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Thanks for the quick links to answer my questions. 

Looks like you are running a combination of ramp up / ramp down. It's good to have CO2 at or close to your peak drop for the entirety of the photoperiod. This way plants can use the light as soon as it is turned on with access to lots of CO2. 

Now, I would personally run the lights at a reduced intensity (such as your 50%) for 5 hours, no ram up / ramp down. I constantly see algae threads that all share a ramp up / ramp down photo period, I think it allows algae to grow then the lights are dim while the plants struggle to compete in lower lighting. 

My personal tank at the moment, regardless of how well the plants are growing, regardless of how much CO2 I inject, always has thread algae like yours because of direct sunlight. I blocked off my window in that room with black poster board, and the algae went away. I then used the poster board as a background on another tank, and the algae came back within a week. 

Hopefully the shades can help out with the direct sunlight. 

Keep at it! Like I said, ride it out. Algae is annoying but it will come and go.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Agree with Quag. 

Less intensity of light for less duration. 

Would also add more CO2 and like @Asteroid said above begin dosing ferts again. There is a mind set that if one stops dosing algae will subside. You can't starve algae. But you can starve plants which leads to more algae.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

With that much algae something is way off and the two biggest influencers are light and organics. *You need to think clean, really clean* and adjust light and make sure co2 is sufficient. 

You want to be redundant in ways to get rid of organics and the effect they have on algae so I would do the following:

If your confident you have enough Par (70-80) then reduce your peak to 3 hrs and the rest much dimmer. 
Go back to getting 1 - 1.2 PH drop. 
Remove dead/damaged stem plants if not healthy.
Change 50% of your media out for carbon. Trust me on this, you won't be sorry. I run my lights 18 hrs a day and have no real algae and I have a light plant load.
If you can increase water changs to 50%+. 
In a tank that size again you need redundant ways to keep the water clean of organics. 
We all don't have crazy hungry stems like @Greggz so you need to purify the water in other ways.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

I know it's controversial but it might be best for a one-two punch before getting back on track with CO2 and fertilization. 

If you can't vacuum your substrate without pulling up the hairgrass, maybe it's time to pull up the hairgrass and go for something like monte carlo that has tenacious roots. Getting dirt out of the substrate is instrumental to keeping a tank clean IMO.


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

Great ideas already offered. I would like to add two more. I have had much better success with preventing algae once I started feeding less. I now just feed 4 days a week M\W\F\Sun. I am also more careful how much I feed and where is goes. The other thing that I have done is to introduce some anthurium and pothos as immersed "nitrate sponges", bare roots dangling in the tank.

Hang in there. You have a great tank and you will succeed!


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

fftfk said:


> Some quick updates...I am forgoing the moving bed (for now) as I just can’t figure out a reliable way of keeping the K1 in the sump contained. It just keeps plugging up the 5 mm holes drain holes and causing the water to overflow the top. Because of the center brace in the tank and location of pipes I wasn’t able to fashion anything that could fit into the tank to use as a roof to the moving bed filter. I tried drilling a cutting board and the angles just didn’t work to get it in. I tried wrapping plastic screen around egg crate and still had the same issue. I have captured all the K1 and put them in bags and added porter sponge 10, 20, and 30 PPI) to the sump to provide more bacteria and help polish the water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I think I might have figured out what is feeding/causing the the algae. This is such a simple/beginner thing I’m embarrassed it didn’t occur to me earlier. I read up on the one-two punch above and bought the supplies to try it out this weekend. 

If you recall (post quoted above) I was initially planning on a fluidized bed filter. I was having a hard time getting it to work properly so switched to sponges and K1 in bags. I set this all up and there they have sat...until today. In pulling them out and watching the pitch black water drain out of them I realized how absolutely filthy they were...they must have just been functioning as a giant nutrient sink. 

I’ve changed water/siphoned about 50 gallons of water so far today. Siphoned out about half a 5 gallon buck of algae and there is still a ton in the tank. My plan is to continue with the 1/2 punch as soon as I get enough water to do a full water change. At most, I can change about 50 gallons every 2 hours (using filtered water not straight from the tap). Given this I think I will use about about 50% of the H2O called for in the plan (1 tablespoon per 10 gallons) followed by by 50 gallon water change, wait 2 hours, 50 gallon change, wait 2 hours, and a final 50 gallon change (for a total of 150 gallons) followed by the excel. 

Plus I’m going to rinse the crap out of the sponges and K1 before adding them back to tank after the water changes.


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

fftfk said:


> So I think I might have figured out what is feeding/causing the the algae. This is such a simple/beginner thing I’m embarrassed it didn’t occur to me earlier. I read up on the one-two punch above and bought the supplies to try it out this weekend.
> 
> If you recall (post quoted above) I was initially planning on a fluidized bed filter. I was having a hard time getting it to work properly so switched to sponges and K1 in bags. I set this all up and there they have sat...until today. In pulling them out and watching the pitch black water drain out of them I realized how absolutely filthy they were...they must have just been functioning as a giant nutrient sink.
> 
> ...


I have read about the 1-2 punch before, but I have never gone that route.

The worst persistent algae problem I ever had was back when I was not cleaning my tanks as diligently as I do now. It was actually cyanobacteria, and I eventually treated that chemically with "Ultralife Blue-Green Slime Stain Remover" that I read about somewhere on TPT. It's great, used as directed on the package, if BGA is your problem.

More recently, I have been recovering from a months-long battle with the green stringy Rhizoclonium, along with some persistent black brush algae, in one of my three tanks. The magic bullet for me was adding more filtration with some sponges and loads of small pumice for bio-filtration.

The bottom line is that ammonia, even in small spikes, leads to algae. You're on the right track by cleaning your filter media. Not only is it a nutrient sink, but all that decaying muck is contributing ammonia to your water. Rinse that mess out with dechlorinated water or "clean-ish" drained tank water -- the point is to get all the dissolved organics off that stuff, not to actually clean the lovely bacteria off it. At least every 6-8 weeks.

I love your tank in its entirety, and I look forward to a beautiful recovery!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Looks like you are using poret foam there. I'm using it too, each time I pull them out it's dark and nasty too. I went with a 40ppi leading 1" thick pad as a catch all vs going with the white poly filter first. I try to clean that every other week. The other pads I'll pull them every month or two. The 30ppi is always the darkest. If I ever redo my foam I'm going to get rid of the first 10ppi pad and put a second 30ppi one in or a 40 at the end. Sometimes when the sump is really funky I'll vacuum all the nasty water out of the sump before filling it again. 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Looks like you are using poret foam there. I'm using it too, each time I pull them out it's dark and nasty too. I went with a 40ppi leading 1" thick pad as a catch all vs going with the white poly filter first. I try to clean that every other week. The other pads I'll pull them every month or two. The 30ppi is always the darkest. If I ever redo my foam I'm going to get rid of the first 10ppi pad and put a second 30ppi one in or a 40 at the end. Sometimes when the sump is really funky I'll vacuum all the nasty water out of the sump before filling it again.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


I did just that (cleaning the sump) after pulling the poret sponges out. The amount of gunk left in just by removing them was definitely eye opening!


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

It's great that you're getting the cleanliness under control, but you should really consider getting back to dosing your fertilizers regularly. We've been discussing it in a different thread, but if you don't feed your plants, they will start to melt. when they melt, they leech ammonia back into the water, causing algae to grow. The algae further hurts the plants, and the cycle continues. 

As I've read on here in a dozen different places, if you concentrate on growing plants, your algae will go away on it's own.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

jellopuddinpop said:


> It's great that you're getting the cleanliness under control, but you should really consider getting back to dosing your fertilizers regularly. We've been discussing it in a different thread, but if you don't feed your plants, they will start to melt. when they melt, they leech ammonia back into the water, causing algae to grow. The algae further hurts the plants, and the cycle continues.
> 
> As I've read on here in a dozen different places, if you concentrate on growing plants, your algae will go away on it's own.


Definitely doing the fert again! No worries there.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

The water after rinsing the poret sponges and K1 in old tank water today. 










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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

fftfk said:


> The water after rinsing the poret sponges and K1 in old tank water today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch - FWIW, there was a time when I cleaned my canister filter - pulled all the trays for cleaning - then poured out what was left in the canister....
Yeah it looked kinda like that.
Pretty sure your tank will appreciate your filter maintenance.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> The water after rinsing the poret sponges and K1 in old tank water today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like what my 40ppi 1" foam water was when I rinsed mine. LOL I won't lie, all my foam is rinsed in hose water on the driveway folded in half with water running on it and me stomping it barefooted like I'm mashing grapes into wine till the gunk runs mostly clear. But I do that as I have other bio media in my sump. Which that I only "flush" in the tank water before draining the sump for a water change. Basically shake the crap outta it to get the poo off. Lol 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Looks like what my 40ppi 1" foam water was when I rinsed mine. LOL I won't lie, all my foam is rinsed in hose water on the driveway folded in half with water running on it and me stomping it barefooted like I'm mashing grapes into wine till the gunk runs mostly clear. But I do that as I have other bio media in my sump. Which that I only "flush" in the tank water before draining the sump for a water change. Basically shake the crap outta it to get the poo off. Lol
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


My poret foam is 3 inch thick 10 PPI, 3 inch thick 20 ppi, and 3 inch thick 30 PPI. I might have try your method of cleaning them. The 10 PPI is ok by the 20 and 30 are a forearm workout trying to ring the water out of them! Lol


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

fftfk said:


> My poret foam is 3 inch thick 10 PPI, 3 inch thick 20 ppi, and 3 inch thick 30 PPI. I might have try your method of cleaning them. The 10 PPI is ok by the 20 and 30 are a forearm workout trying to ring the water out of them! Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My 10, 20, & 30 are 3" thick too. Tried the whole hose and beating them against a wall but was a PITA! So I resorted to stomping. Lol The 40 is 1" and still mashing it is the best. 

Wish I could find a big ole ultrasonic cleaner to dip these in! LOL 

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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

chayos00 said:


> My 10, 20, & 30 are 3" thick too. Tried the whole hose and beating them against a wall but was a PITA! So I resorted to stomping. Lol The 40 is 1" and still mashing it is the best.
> 
> Wish I could find a big ole ultrasonic cleaner to dip these in! LOL
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


So, I have these boxes of grapes and.......
never mind ;-)


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Looks like what my 40ppi 1" foam water was when I rinsed mine. LOL I won't lie, all my foam is rinsed in hose water on the driveway folded in half with water running on it and me stomping it barefooted like I'm mashing grapes into wine till the gunk runs mostly clear. But I do that as I have other bio media in my sump. Which that I only "flush" in the tank water before draining the sump for a water change. Basically shake the crap outta it to get the poo off. Lol


This is the way. I wash my sponges & floss in regular tap water because I'm not concerned about maintaining the bacteria there, and tap water is much more convenient. You only need to use dechlorinated water for the K1.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Quick update - the one-two punch seems to have worked fairly well. I have not lost any fish yet and the large amano are still in the tank. I haven't not found the small amano yet but I am fairly certain they all turned into fish food/were lost to the overflow. I cleared out the Ludwigia and replanted the ozelot swords to give them some room to spread out. The ludwigia's (while not as bad weed as the rotala indica) spreading roots were really annoying to deal with in mass and were covered in algae. Plus, they were cutting down the flow quite a bit. Some of the swords had to be trimmed due to melting/being torn up. 

The good news is with everything cleared out I see both of my plecos are still doing well! 

I have some more cleaning to do. Long term I think I am going to removing the dwarf sag...it is really is difficult to siphon without pulling it up.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Added a question to the water parameters sub-forum ( Fluctuating/Steady CO2 and Algae Question 








Fluctuating/Steady CO2 and Algae Question


I’ve been battling a big algae outbreak. Hopefully (fingers crossed) I’ve turned the corner on the algae. Early in process of dealing with the algae I read that fluctuating levels of CO2 were thought to be a cause of algae. I switched my CO2 from on during the lighting period only to on 24...




r.tapatalk.com




).


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

tank is loooking goooood!!!

i'm glad the treatment work and cleaning out those sponges was probably a huge help too! awesome

yeah, I agree with removing the sag, I've never had success with it. what other changes do you have planned for the tank?


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Quick update - tank is still going well. Algae has been kept mostly at bay…I need to wipe down the glass about every two weeks to keep the tank looking clean. I added 6 Siamese algae eaters and about 30 more amano to help with keeping the tank clean. I have not removed the dwarf sag…the Siamese Algae fish seem to be acting as a lawn mower for it keeping it trimmed down.









Additionally, I added an automatic shade to keep direct sunlight off the tank. It goes down at 9:00 PM every night and back up at noon. 

















One final update - I’ve got a project going on in the fish room. It won’t be a quick one but someday in the near future I should have an extensive update about the filtration, etc. A tease until then…










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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

A couple of questions: What size is your sump? What return pump did you end up using? Why did you put the sump in the basement? I'm debating several different design for a 450 gallon tank I want to get next year. I do have the option of putting holes in the floor but not sure it is advantages in my situation. I'm also concern about the overflow design. My intention is to go with custom aquarium with their overflows (which seems not totally dissimilar to your overflow but i'm also debating if i want an internal overflow to pull water from the bottom of the tank for increase filtration debris - i'm also worry about the skimmer design catching smaller fishes. Last but least I want to run co2 on this tank and a bit concern about how to distribute the co2 across the entire tank relatively evenly. I see that your design has a single injection point but you are using a reactor instead of an intank diffuser so maybe that works well? I was thinking of using a series of 4 injection points in tank diffusers (co2art) but not sure which would work better. Of course either way it is going to use a lot of co2 - i guess having it in the basement would make it easier to buy a larger co2 tank.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jake21 said:


> A couple of questions: What size is your sump? What return pump did you end up using? Why did you put the sump in the basement? I'm debating several different design for a 450 gallon tank I want to get next year. I do have the option of putting holes in the floor but not sure it is advantages in my situation. I'm also concern about the overflow design. My intention is to go with custom aquarium with their overflows (which seems not totally dissimilar to your overflow but i'm also debating if i want an internal overflow to pull water from the bottom of the tank for increase filtration debris - i'm also worry about the skimmer design catching smaller fishes. Last but least I want to run co2 on this tank and a bit concern about how to distribute the co2 across the entire tank relatively evenly. I see that your design has a single injection point but you are using a reactor instead of an intank diffuser so maybe that works well? I was thinking of using a series of 4 injection points in tank diffusers (co2art) but not sure which would work better. Of course either way it is going to use a lot of co2 - i guess having it in the basement would make it easier to buy a larger co2 tank.


First of all, those diffusers aren't very efficient, especially with a huge tank that size, that's where a reactor would be the most efficient option for you unless you want to refill 20lbs quite often. With my 125g and sump I'm up to 6months for a 20lbs tank, the kicker was the reactor and a pH controller. But if you have it as part of the tank return it will get it all over with a decent flow rate. Hope this helps some! 

I would imagine a basement sump allows you the option of a LARGE sump with no size limitations. But I'm sure adds complexity to it all for a large enough pump and a large sump tank, probably more pond trough sized. 

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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

jake21 said:


> A couple of questions: What size is your sump? What return pump did you end up using? Why did you put the sump in the basement? I'm debating several different design for a 450 gallon tank I want to get next year. I do have the option of putting holes in the floor but not sure it is advantages in my situation. I'm also concern about the overflow design. My intention is to go with custom aquarium with their overflows (which seems not totally dissimilar to your overflow but i'm also debating if i want an internal overflow to pull water from the bottom of the tank for increase filtration debris - i'm also worry about the skimmer design catching smaller fishes. Last but least I want to run co2 on this tank and a bit concern about how to distribute the co2 across the entire tank relatively evenly. I see that your design has a single injection point but you are using a reactor instead of an intank diffuser so maybe that works well? I was thinking of using a series of 4 injection points in tank diffusers (co2art) but not sure which would work better. Of course either way it is going to use a lot of co2 - i guess having it in the basement would make it easier to buy a larger co2 tank.





chayos00 said:


> First of all, those diffusers aren't very efficient, especially with a huge tank that size, that's where a reactor would be the most efficient option for you unless you want to refill 20lbs quite often. With my 125g and sump I'm up to 6months for a 20lbs tank, the kicker was the reactor and a pH controller. But if you have it as part of the tank return it will get it all over with a decent flow rate. Hope this helps some!
> 
> I would imagine a basement sump allows you the option of a LARGE sump with no size limitations. But I'm sure adds complexity to it all for a large enough pump and a large sump tank, probably more pond trough sized.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


My sump is a standard 65 gallon tank that made using acrylic dividers. I put everything in the basement for the following reasons:

This is my fourth large (100 gallons plus) tank and it is in our family/dining room. All of my previous tanks had sumps below them. I wanted as much noise of the tank as possible out of the living spaces. When the tank overflow is operating perfectly the tank is nearly silent. 
I'm 46 with a history of back issues that will eventually need surgery. It gets old having to climb under the tank to clean/add equipment. Having the sump in the basement allows for easier cleaning/access with everything at table top height. No real need to squat down and climb under the tank anymore. 
Other than scrubbing the glass and siphoning the detritus the majority of tank maintenance is done in the basement out of the way of my wife's view. If the cleaning/project I'm working on is taking more than 1 day (as is the current one I'm doing) I don't have to clean up and put everything away every night. I can just leave it laying out where it is. 
As noted by Chayos...the basement gives you a lot of options with size/layout of the tank.
The only real downside of a basement pump I see is that you really need more powerful pumps to circulate the water. Pumps that can handle the head pressure of a basement sump are typically more expensive and louder. Quieter pumps that can handle head pressure (abyzz, royal exclusiv) are more expensive.

For overflow design with any sumps system (basement or under the tank) I would recommend a herbie style (2 pipes) or bean animal style (same as herbie but with an extra safety pipe) as once they are dialed in they are much quieter. This tank is a bean animal style.

The overflow surface skimmer does catch some fish (especially the smaller ones) on occasion. My previous tanks the overflows were all full height of the tank. When a fish got in there it was a huge pain getting them out. This overflow which is much shallower is much easier to net the fish in but it can still be a pain as you have to move the net around the pipes etc. I have also found that fresh water fish seem to be a lot better at getting themselves out of the overflow and back into the tank than salt water ones were.

I have never actually used diffusers before. My understanding is that they are better for smaller tanks but once you get into larger size tanks you really want to move into reactors. I use a ph controller to maintain the CO2 level so am not worried about counting bubbles etc.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

Thank you. My tank will likely come from custom aquarium which uses what i believe is a N pipe herbie system with skimmer at the top. I had consider an internal overflow in one corner with the holes in the bottom to catch debris from the bottom but maybe that is not necessary. I do have the option of drilling the holes into the basement and putting the stump down there and using an abyzz pump (well option in that i can afford it) - i'm just debating if it is worth the extra complexity. I worry in part that during water changes and what have you i can't see the water level in the sump. It does seem that i could do water changes via draining water from the sump but of course then nothing from the bottom will be collected. My style of tank is heavily planted freshwater (similar to my 120). I really do like the idea of putting the stumps in the basement and have the added benefit that i can have the plumber run the pipes also i could eventually replace the custom aquarium sump with something a bit different at a later date. I have to think about this - glad i started reading this thread...













fftfk said:


> My sump is a standard 65 gallon tank that made using acrylic dividers. I put everything in the basement for the following reasons:
> 
> This is my fourth large (100 gallons plus) tank and it is in our family/dining room. All of my previous tanks had sumps below them. I wanted as much noise of the tank as possible out of the living spaces. When the tank overflow is operating perfectly the tank is nearly silent.
> I'm 46 with a history of back issues that will eventually need surgery. It gets old having to climb under the tank to clean/add equipment. Having the sump in the basement allows for easier cleaning/access with everything at table top height. No real need to squat down and climb under the tank anymore.
> ...


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

So i'm still reading this thread (on page 7 of 18) but this is the post that i wanted to respond to and perhaps it is out-dated in that angels were not pursued for this build. The thing is that beauty of angels are in the eyes of the beholder. I have a tank with lots of angels (see above post) and while currently a 'thing' i'm not a fan of redshoulder angels. I'm not even too sure why they are so popular. This is of course a visual thing. My current tank is a 120 but i am working towards a 450 which i will set up after i move next year. I'm partial to platinum and black angels though there are many exotic breeds these days (pinoy ghost has become popular as it effectively gives you a blue angelfish - though it is not my thing) and then there are golds (which you get when mixing black and platinum) and there are all sort of fancy fins (none of which interest me). So why this post - what make the redshoulder so popular as I just don't get it:




Discusluv said:


> From the design and use of hardscape/plants, this tank is calling out for a South American group of fish.
> For scale, I would do larger, medium, and small fish.
> 
> This would look great with this stock:
> ...


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

jake21 said:


> So i'm still reading this thread (on page 7 of 18) but this is the post that i wanted to respond to and perhaps it is out-dated in that angels were not pursued for this build. The thing is that angels are in the eyes of the beholder. I have a tank with lots of angels (see above post) and while currently a 'thing' i'm not a fan of redshoulder angels. I'm not even too sure why they are so popular. This is of course a visual thing. My current tank is a 120 but i am working towards a 450 which i will set up after i move next year. I'm partial to platinum and black angels though there are many exotic breeds these days (pinoy ghost has become popular as it effectively gives you a blue angelfish - though it is not my thing) and then there are golds (which you get when mixing black and platinum) and there are all sort of fancy fins (none of which interest me). So why this post - what make the redshoulder so popular as I just don't get it:


Why are red shoulder angels popular? I didn't know they were. The post response was based on my own preference. Of course it may not be yours.
But, that's what makes the world go around.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

I've seen them singled out in numerous places hence my comment on their popularity. Also some of the more exotic places I look at for fishes make a big deal when they have these for sale (esp wild ones).



Discusluv said:


> Why are red shoulder angels popular? I didn't know they were. The post response was based on my own preference. Of course it may not be yours.
> But, that's what makes the world go around.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

jake21 said:


> So i'm still reading this thread (on page 7 of 18) but this is the post that i wanted to respond to and perhaps it is out-dated in that angels were not pursued for this build. The thing is that angels are in the eyes of the beholder. I have a tank with lots of angels (see above post) and while currently a 'thing' i'm not a fan of redshoulder angels. I'm not even too sure why they are so popular. This is of course a visual thing. My current tank is a 120 but i am working towards a 450 which i will set up after i move next year. I'm partial to platinum and black angels though there are many exotic breeds these days (pinoy ghost has become popular as it effectively gives you a blue angelfish - though it is not my thing) and then there are golds (which you get when mixing black and platinum) and there are all sort of fancy fins (none of which interest me). So why this post - what make the redshoulder so popular as I just don't get it:


It seems that there has been a trend to more wild-type or at least wild looking fish. Stuff like Rio Nanay and Rio Manucapuru pterophyllum scalare, altum angels, red spot green discus etc. look more natural in an aquascape than something like a German blue ram IMO.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

jake21 said:


> So i'm still reading this thread (on page 7 of 18) but this is the post that i wanted to respond to and perhaps it is out-dated in that angels were not pursued for this build. The thing is that beauty of angels are in the eyes of the beholder. I have a tank with lots of angels (see above post) and while currently a 'thing' i'm not a fan of redshoulder angels. I'm not even too sure why they are so popular. This is of course a visual thing. My current tank is a 120 but i am working towards a 450 which i will set up after i move next year. I'm partial to platinum and black angels though there are many exotic breeds these days (pinoy ghost has become popular as it effectively gives you a blue angelfish - though it is not my thing) and then there are golds (which you get when mixing black and platinum) and there are all sort of fancy fins (none of which interest me). So why this post - what make the redshoulder so popular as I just don't get it:


I like Angels and am thinking about moving that way. I kind of have a mismatch of fish right now but would eventually like to move to either a primary Angel or rainbow tank. I’m not sure if you’ve gotten to my post about the Rainbow fish yet but I’ve ended up with a mixed rainbow fish that has caused some issues.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

I have kept all sorts of color morphs in the past of angels but my preference has always been wild caught or at least wild form ones. Hoping to do a big tank of them some time eventually.


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

How goes it with your tank? Any updates?


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

Cool tank.

Call me crazy but that looks more like hairgrass than dwarf sag to me. The leaf blades don't look wide enough to be dwarf sag. I have both and the hairgrass is much more likely to be disturbed by a siphon.


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Well ****!!!!

















Return pump died and so far two days without even a response from Abyzz on their “10 year” warranty. It looks like the controller fried. I can’t tell if anything is actually wrong with the pump. Less than impressed to say the least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

Yikes! Do you have a backup pump?


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

That sucks! Hopefully you still had the Iwaki as backup...

DC pumps are quiet and adjustable, but just have so much more failure potential.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Damn!! That sucks! But guess why I went with Jabeo and used them again for my recent replacement pump, mine didn't fail, just started to not pump what it did before. I couldn't decide who I wanted to gamble the extra money on as I hear pretty much everything fails.... 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Damn!! That sucks! But guess why I went with Jabeo and used them again for my recent replacement pump, mine didn't fail, just started to not pump what it did before. I couldn't decide who I wanted to gamble the extra money on as I hear pretty much everything fails....
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk





EmotionalFescue said:


> That sucks! Hopefully you still had the Iwaki as backup...
> 
> DC pumps are quiet and adjustable, but just have so much more failure potential.


So - I do have a back-up pump (beyond the iwaki) but have not gotten it running yet. I bought another Abyzz A400 to replace my current pump along with some plans for the sump room. Due to getting back to work/being outside during the summer I've been spending more time working/outside so have not reworked the plumbing yet to install the A400. However, given that I placed a warranty claim for the A100 on Wednesday and have not even heard a response yet beyond a form letter I have been very disappointed with Abyzz so much that I am considering just returning the A400 and going with multiple less expensive pumps. As crazy as it seems as Red Dragon is not cheap, I could get two red dragons that could handle my flow/head pressure requirements for the cost of one Abyzz A400. 

I get that Covid has screwed up everyone's supply chains. However, I find it unacceptable to not even have a response yet given the cost and supposed warranty reputation of Abyzz. Seriously - they could have responded with something along the lines of acknowledging the warranty claim and saying they have stock/shipping issues and may not be able to address it right away. At least then I would have known to just move into the A400 right away. Overall, I am very disappointed with Abyzz right now.

A lot of people knock Jabeao because of IP theft/cheap manufacturing. However, given my experience with buying the legitimate brand with the good warranty Jabeao is making more sense. If Jabeao made a quiet pump that could handle the head pressure I would buy 10 of them and just replace them when they break/wear out!!!!

I have enough flow in the current tank/plus fairly low stocking levels I think the tank should be fine. I rigged up a temporary heater in the tank to keep the temp up. My only concern is lack of CO2 doing damage to the plants but would rather have that than lose fish.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

I haven't had my red dragon for very long, but it's very quiet, and I heard back from the manufacturer within 24 hours when I had a question about the controller.

Fwiw, ymmv, etc etc...


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Yeah it definitely sucks COVID has screwed things up! But yeah, a good company should give some response! Give them a call Monday when they open and be like WTF guys! 

What kind of head height are you needing? When I setup my water change system to make it the 50-100' through my attic tomy 2nd garage I had to look for an AC pump that had a good strong head height to it, which ended up being a Pain World 200PS as it was 39' for the head and had a good flow to it too. 

I wasn't a fan of the idea of using the Jebao brand either for the knock of a legit brand thing either, but at the time it seemed like a decent choice for the DC controlling aspect and price point of what I needed. 

The DCP-18000 & 20000 have a 9 meter head height rating to them, not sure what you'd need, but the 18000 I have set to the lowest setting on my tank, but at 100% will blast the tank with flow, which doesn't overload the 1.5" secondary return and doesn't even get the emergency overflow pipe filling. This was tested closing down the 1" primary line to see how 1.5" could handle the flow, which it never achieved full siphon as it sure can flow more than the pump can fill the tank with. But you could always test one from Amazon and just return it if it couldn't handle the flow. LOL Could be a cheap backup if it works. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

OP. Any updates, pics, news?


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

mourip said:


> OP. Any updates, pics, news?


Op hasn't been on for over a month; so maybe sick or lost interest or just busy or ....


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

jake21 said:


> Op hasn't been on for over a month; so maybe sick or lost interest or just busy or ....


Yup. 3 months actually. He has a very cool and unusually big tank. We are hoping things are going well and he will check back in to keep his loyal followers happy


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I'm here! Sorry - have been busy with work. Tank is still status quo. I will get it cleaned up and post a new photo soon.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

fftfk said:


> I'm here! Sorry - have been busy with work. Tank is still status quo. I will get it cleaned up and post a new photo soon.


This tank is gorgeous. I'm going through large tank journals as I prepare for my next, biggest, tank.


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## Dolphin29 (Dec 18, 2021)

Woof finished. That’s a dosy of a tank. And a post Lol. Wish I had a tank that big. So many angels or discus. Or a 1000 celestial pearl danios. 40 emperor tetras and a bunch of dojo loaches. Ugh to many choices


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

All - I have made the decision to convert back to a Saltwater tank. I have two Kessil Tuna Sun lights that I will be putting up in the for sale section tonight. (The other three have already been bought).


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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

Sniff...but I am sure the salt tank will be beautiful. 
Best of luck!


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

Aw man! I was cheering for this sized tank to be a jaw dropping planted scape. All The best for your reef.. maybe drop us some updates anyways of that progress!


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

fftfk said:


> All - I have made the decision to convert back to a Saltwater tank.


Would you care to provide a debrief? What worked well? What didn't work so well? What would you do differently if you were starting it knowing what you know now? 

I'd love to read that, and I'm sure others would too.


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

Yes definitely would be interested too!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Yes, don't leave us hanging! What made you decide to go SW? I know it's gonna look BA!!! 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

Ultimately the tank did pretty well. I was able to keep the plants growing and most fish alive. I just find saltwater more engaging and frankly, less work. By less work I mean Amano style tanks. They really daily maintenance to stay looking good rather than just being a bunch of plants. I don’t have the skill to create aquascapes like that nor the diligence necessary to maintain the tank looking good. Hats off to people who can pull it off!!!

Things that worked well -

1 - This site - the help and advice I got were invaluable.

2 - the one two punch for eliminating algae. I had a big issue with algae and the 1 2 punch effectively eliminated algae. Further, I never really had an ongoing issue after it.

3 - amano shrimp - they were really fun to watch. 

4 - Nikoc G EI based fertilizer. Really came as a nice package that was easy to use. 

5 & 6 are related - Kessil lights and setting up the lights using a PAR meter. I would have been blasting away at 100% when all I needed was 50% if I hadn’t used a par meter to set the lights.

7 - Ludwigia as a nutrient sponge when starting the tank. It worked out great for that.

Things that didn’t work well -

1 - Ludwigia long term. The stuff is an absolute weed. I was pulling chunks of it on a monthly basis a year after I thought I had removed it all.

2) 1-2 Punch - killed all of my loaches. 

3) thinking I was buying a pure bread Rainbow fish from LFS only to find out via this site it was a hybrid. That thing hunted and killed every rainbow fish I tried to keep. 

4) Bulkhead leak - the twisting process of taking out the bulkhead strainer to clean it of planted matter caused the bulkhead to loosen enough for a slow leak. I didn’t catch it in time to avoid damage to our hardwood floors. The sad thing - I had a $20 leak detector still in the box in the cabinet next to tank. 

5) I wish I had made the canopy taller to make it easier to work in the tank. 

6) buying two expensive plecos / they are beautiful when you can find them. They are still in the tank but I only see one of them on average e Rey other week. They get to be a max dive of 4-5 inches…would have been a better idea in a smaller tank. 

Things I’m ambivalent about -

1) sump - it didn’t hurt anything but didn’t really need it. The plants had more than enough filtration on their own to make the sump redundant. 

2) Small fish - I though a school of red terra and rummy nose tetra would be cool. Should have listened to this site - the ember tetra are basically invisible on the tank due to their small size. After 2 years I have about 20-25 rummy nose tetra left (out of 100 to start)…not enough for a cool looking school of fish but enough to be distracting. 


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I thihnk with a tank of that size, a small scholing fish could be amazing. You need a school of like 500 though


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## fftfk (Jul 13, 2017)

I want to add one more thing to my list of items that didn’t work out…following the online calculator for much substrate I needed…could have gone with about 1/3 of what I had. 200 lbs of wet mud that needs to be removed one dust pan at a time.











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## mourip (Mar 15, 2020)

fftfk said:


> Ultimately the tank did pretty well. I was able to keep the plants growing and most fish alive. I just find saltwater more engaging and frankly, less work. By less work I mean Amano style tanks. They really daily maintenance to stay looking good rather than just being a bunch of plants. I don’t have the skill to create aquascapes like that nor the diligence necessary to maintain the tank looking good. Hats off to people who can pull it off!!!
> 
> Things that worked well -
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post mortem. Good information. 

I hope to try a larger tank one day. Probably "just" 120g to 160g though!

Any updates on your transition to reefing?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

For fun you may want to check out the Mitras line of lights.
Kessil has some great sw lights but " I" feel they just don't pay attention to fw.
Though style and the point source shimmer may be a factor.








Mitras LX 7006, white, USA/CND - GHL USA


7006 Freshwater Model, six cluster, white, power supply included




www.aquariumcomputer.com


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> For fun you may want to check out the Mitras line of lights.
> Kessil has some great sw lights but " I" feel they just don't pay attention to fw.
> Though style and the point source shimmer may be a factor.
> 
> ...


I don't understand what you mean? The reason i want to understand is at one time this is one of the lights i'm considering for my 400g next year; but i think it is quite expensive for what it offers.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jake21 said:


> I don't understand what you mean? The reason i want to understand is at one time this is one of the lights i'm considering for my 400g next year; but i think it is quite expensive for what it offers.


Well first cost wasn't a consideration atm.
Specifically to the " x" if you don't buy the controller you have no red/ amber adj.
Second, and in my opinion, they never got serious in fw color until recently.
Their old 6000-9000 k range was err primitive at best. Took them years to "catch up".
Third the one spotlight form factor is just not ideal. Never was for any manuf.
Spreading one " point" 130 degrees just isn't my idea of a good time coverage wise. At depth it equalizes but at top to midrange has issues....in my opinion.
Honestly at say 24" their coverage is hard to beat but uniform top to bottom is more my style.


Add their secretive nature and no " official" par data (I may have missed it) for a lighting company that has all the " toys" well annoying comes to mind.

My best analogy is Bose vs everyone else.....

They work don't get me wrong and much is opinion or style or look but as a Premier manuf. their philosophy and mine do not mesh.
They can do better ..
Like I said their sw lights (mostly due to the more simple blue centric spectrum) are fine and it is their bread and butter so to speak.
Kessil logic was cool but think about it a minute 
Means you underutilize your potential.
Say 100/0...50/50.....0/100...Kessil logic simplified. See equal power output over the color range 
No 100/100.
Now there probably are heat constraints and you lose the "failsafe" factor.

Now every company has warts and peoples needs/wants differ so there is no perfect light.
I reiterate, certainly will grow things and it's "look" is in a class of its own so there is that.

I suggested to "look" at the Mitras no more no less. And honesty there are certainly other lights as well. No matter what " others" say people choose on their own 90% of the time .
May boil down to spouse saying " nope".


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

In fairness... Counterpoint.









No so much...





Any one own or experienced Kessil A360X LED lights?


I posted some queries on thread but I've had no replies, so thought I would ask the question more directly to the forum. Does anyone own and use the Kessil A360X LED lights, or failing that has anyone actually seen them in action? I'm interested in opinions on the colour rendition compared to...



www.ukaps.org


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Aak..... 3 yr old thread


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

I think there is confusion. I was asking about ghl; you seem to be describing kessil.
-
I will add this information in case it is useful:
7004 coverage is 24 x 24 $580 ??131 watt??
7006 coverage is 36 x 24 $780 ??195 watt??
-
We compare this to ai prime:
ai hd prime coverage 24x24 $250 55 watt
hydra 32 coverage 24x24 $420 95 watt
-
The ghl coverage is more uniform and they are much stronger lights but quite a bit more expensive per square inch; though per watt not so much.



jeffkrol said:


> Well first cost wasn't a consideration atm.
> Specifically to the " x" if you don't buy the controller you have no red/ amber adj.
> Second, and in my opinion, they never got serious in fw color until recently.
> Their old 6000-9000 k range was err primitive at best. Took them years to "catch up".
> ...


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

Having used all these lights that you are looking at the GHL gives a broad light spread. You can mount them front to back and longways. Kessil and AI lights a central point of light type light so the spread of the light is less. 
The GHL lights also allow you to change pucks over time to.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

EdWiser said:


> Having used all these lights that you are looking at the GHL gives a broad light spread. You can mount them front to back and longways. Kessil and AI lights a central point of light type light so the spread of the light is less.
> The GHL lights also allow you to change pucks over time to.


pucks? Also how easy is it to program the ghl lights; are they like the fluval or wrgb 2 just connect with phone and set desired settings?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorry about that.
Between an ai prime and mitras I'm pretty neutral and to me they fall into the natural light categories.
Both have personal " warts" but nothing fatal.
Mitras is definitely a luxury purchase.

Nobody " needs" a Mitras. 




A pic of the Mitras


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

As to programming ect..best to mine some saltwater threads on that.
Even there it is still sort of a niche product.








Mitras LX 7206 LED Lighting Fixture Review With Photos (2018 Update)


Leveraging the success of the LX6 Series, GHL Mitras LX7 offers a robust LED lighting fixture designed to optimize coral health without complication. Put on your shades and join us as we explore the brilliance of Innovative lighting design.




www.reefhacks.com





Ai primes have been stated to be warmer than some prefer.
10O% spectrum between the 2.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> Sorry about that.
> Between an ai prime and mitras I'm pretty neutral and to me they fall into the natural light categories.
> Both have personal " warts" but nothing fatal.
> Mitras is definitely a luxury purchase.
> ...


While I like the look of the arms; i would actually hang them if i purchased them.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jake21 said:


> While I like the look of the arms; i would actually hang them if i purchased them.


Good will save you about $200 if I remember correctly. Arms are like $150 each. Crazy talk..


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> Good will save you about $200 if I remember correctly. Arms are like $150 each. Crazy talk..


And ... there are all these wonderful alternative usage for a bit of metal wire....


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

jake21 said:


> pucks? Also how easy is it to program the ghl lights; are they like the fluval or wrgb 2 just connect with phone and set desired settings?


The are easy to program. You can use a smart phone to do it. I have a whole system of GHL products. I have a dedicated nuk pc just for my system as I have several systems and adjust things using the computer program. 

The light posts are great in that all the wiring is hidden inside the column. An simple to adjust. 

When you get in the larger aquarium the normal freshwater light people use are useless. An they are made for small Tanks. 
Which is the vast majority of aquariums. 
An the average user doesn’t want to buy high feature equipment. I have been in the hobby for 60 years now and just don’t waste money in more on the junk on the market.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

The problem with the posts is both mounting them and cost. The tanks I'm setting up are long but not deep - 10ftx3ftx22 and 8ftx4ftx22. It would take 5 7006 and 8 7004; also in the case of the 8ftx4ft I'm not sure you could mount two 7004 on a single post.... anyway seems like a whole lot of $$$$$$$.



EdWiser said:


> The are easy to program. You can use a smart phone to do it. I have a whole system of GHL products. I have a dedicated nuk pc just for my system as I have several systems and adjust things using the computer program.
> 
> The light posts are great in that all the wiring is hidden inside the column. An simple to adjust.
> 
> ...


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## Count Krunk (2 mo ago)

Www.Humble.fish is the best reef forum. Great journal, I read it through. Only thing I would stress to anyone reading is qt and breeding of nano fish is a very good way to get good stock.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

Count Krunk said:


> Www.Humble.fish is the best reef forum. Gray journal, I read it through. Only thing I would stress to anyone reading is qt and breeding of nano fish is a very good way to get good stock.


I don't think plants grow very well in reef tanks.... certainly my hornworth didn't do well at all....


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## Count Krunk (2 mo ago)

jake21 said:


> I don't think plants grow very well in reef tanks.... certainly my hornworth didn't do well at all....


Not choosing the right ones then haha


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