# Ich in tank with plants & shrimp - Advice Please?



## A&LinILM (Dec 7, 2013)

Just discovered ich on several of our tetras this morning, so I've spent the past few hours sifting through the plethora of information online about various ways of treating it. We are fairly new to all of this (we've had our tank for about 2 months now) and have never had any experience with ich, so I'm unsure what the best course of treatment would be for our particular tank. We have a 29 gallon tank planted with java ferns, java moss, and dwarf sagittaria. We have 3 dwarf gouramis, 6 neon tetras, 3 otocinclus, 2 mountain cloud minnows, 2 bamboo shrimp, and 5 or 6 ghost shrimp. 

From everything I've read aquarium salt plus heat seems to be the most recommended course of treatment. But how much salt to add? I've read everything from 1 teaspoon per gallon to 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons. I know that plants and shrimp don't do well with high amounts of salt, but can they tolerate small amounts? And if so, is the amount of salt they can tolerate enough to get rid of the ich?

Many sites say to increase the water temperature to 84-86 degrees if your fish can tolerate it. How do I know if they are not tolerating it? What are the signs of a fish that is not tolerating the heat? More swimming? Less swimming? And what about the white cloud minnows? Can they take the increased temperature? I know they are a cooler water fish (the guy at the pet store told us they were cherry barbs when he sold them to us, it wasn't until I got home and looked them up online that I realized they weren't cherry barbs) so we generally keep our tank in the low 70's. Will upping the temp by about 10 degrees be okay for them, or should I get a small little tank and move them for the duration of the ich treatment? 

I know we need to put an air pump/air stone in to increase the levels of oxygen in the tank since the warmer water doesn't hold oxygen as well. And I know we should keep treating until about a week after the last fish stops showing signs of ich.

Sorry this is so wordy, but any and all advice on the best course of treatment would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
-A


----------



## edstewart5 (Sep 24, 2013)

I have a 29G tank with amano shrimp, tetras and rams that got ich on the tetras to start. I turned the heat up as high as my heater would allow (86°), added about 2 tsp of salt to the tank (I didn't want to affect the plants) and then bought Kordons Ich Attack (safe for shrimp) and double dosed that daily until it was gone. Not a single loss. And no stress. I also didn't add an air stone, just lowered the water level.


----------



## awesometim1 (Oct 31, 2013)

Just saying, I know you're freaking out, but ich is not a serious disease. It usually just dissapears for me. Idk how or why... I think fish get ick when theyre stressed. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


----------



## beginragnarok (Dec 19, 2011)

I can't answer all your questions. Others will likely chime in about the behavior and heat tolerance of the fish.

I have had to deal with Ich once. Kordon's Ich Attack worked for me along with 82F temps. Dosing a 29gal will get a bit pricey but it worked for me.

-Zach


----------



## Legot (Jun 29, 2013)

I wrote a quality post, then it vanished 

Basically, get the temp to above 86, high temps that are under 86 won't kill the ich, but it will substantially speed up it's reproductive cycle. As long as you raise the temp over two days or so the fish and shrimp won't care.

Most ich medicines contain copper, which will kill most inverts, some also contain ingredients that will harm less hardy plants and bacteria.

I wouldn't add salt because of the soft water fish. There may be no visible signs of stress, but it can harm some parts of their natural osmotic function, which will ultimately shorten their lifespan.


----------



## cjskier (Nov 21, 2013)

I just found ich in my shrimp tank that has 6 tetra. I think ill try and catch the tetra to isolate them to treat the ich. Problem is its a 10gal, filled with manzanita, moss and java fern. I really dont want to disrupt the scape, but catching them might be impossible otherwise.

Can anyone chime in about treating a tank with neon tetras, cherry and crystal shrimp, and plants in it? Before I destroy my tank trying to catch tetras.

On a seperate note, the white clouds WILL NOT tolerate 86 degree water! But you could isolate them in a regular bowl for a couple days without a heater. And you should really consider adding more of them! They really don't like small groups.


----------



## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

86 is a bit on the high end. 84 will work. Black out the tank for 3 days and it helps keep the protazoan from reproducing so quickly so it dies off quicker.


----------



## Legot (Jun 29, 2013)

thelub said:


> 86 is a bit on the high end. 84 will work. Black out the tank for 3 days and it helps keep the protazoan from reproducing so quickly so it dies off quicker.


84 only works if your heater is perfectly calibrated to your tank.


----------



## A&LinILM (Dec 7, 2013)

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! I picked up a bottle of Ich Attack from the pet store on my way home from work last night & so far it seems to be working. I didn't notice as many spots on the tetras today & (fingers crossed) it doesn't seem to have spread to any of the other fish. I bumped the temp up a few degrees, but I'm waiting til tomorrow to turn it up all the way so I have time to get a separate little tank set up for the cloud minnows.
Hopefully the Ich Attack and increased heat will take care of it!
-A


----------



## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

I have never tried medications and heat. The first time I had ick in my tank it was with goldfish so heat was out. But, none the less, all fish except for a single rainbow shark died. The shark itself almost died because of the medication (Rainbow sharks are scaleless fish. I didn't know that at the time...) 

Anyway, the only time I've had any luck, in case for some reason what you are doing does not work, is raising the water temperature to 86 or higher, adding in about 1 teaspoon of salt three times a day until I hit 9 teaspoons (for a 10 gallon). I lost a bala shark that time when I let the water temperature fall down to 82 degrees for a couple of days. I was still in the learning part of it all. Anyway, I noticed the white spots on the bala on Tuesday night, got the temperature heading back to where it should be, and found the fish dead Wednesday morning. That's how fast it hits when the water is warm but not too warm. 

Hopefully medications and heat works much the same as salt and heat. Remember that ick can return up to 2 weeks since you last saw it. It is NOT caused by stress. It IS however caused by introducing new fish and plants into your tank. If you don't already do it, make SURE you quarantine new fish for AT LEAST 2 weeks before you put them in with your older fish. I learned that the hard way.


----------



## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

keep in mind that ich is a sign of poor water quality which leads to fish stress. I think ich is one of those diseases that is normally always present but frequent water changes keep it at such low levels that fish can fight it off bc they have a healthy immune system. I used to get ich often, once I started doing weekly large water changes, I haven't had it show up in my tanks as much.


----------



## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

I've treated ick in the past with salt and higher temps (86 is what I read is the ideal temp because it can't survive). 

If the ick is BAD, you can do that those things and even medicate but most of the time, ick will go away with water changes and gravel vac. You'll always have it in the tank, but it won't affect healthy fish. 

Just because the spots go away doesn't mean ick did. They actually fall off in substrate and produce eggs.


----------



## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

The one time I got ick was from plants from walmart (never again) I increased temps as high as heaters would go, that worked by itself. Like said before ick is always present in low numbers and is brought on by stress, usually healthy fish can keep it at bey unless a large quantity is introduced from an outside source (fish / plants / decorations). I myself never use medications unless absolutely necessary.


----------



## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

Hmm... I have to disagree with those of you who are saying that ick is always present in your tank. If it was, I would have it more than I do right now. 

Maybe, if you present me with enough evidence that it CAN survive in a tank, I'll believe you, but for now I am set on the idea that it cannot lay dormant in an aquarium. 

It comes into your tank when you get new fish, plants, or gravel. After it has not been seen for 2 weeks, it most likely is gone.


----------



## Legot (Jun 29, 2013)

Ich is a parasite, not a disease. It can only be introduced and spread throughout a tank. Once it's gone, it's gone until something brings more in. In no way is it a direct sign of poor water quality, but it is true that a healthy fish is less susceptible than a semi-sick fish living in less than ideal water. That doesn't change the fact that if you kill it off it will be completely gone.

It can't survive unless it attaches to a host within a few days(???) either, so in a tank with very very very healthy fish it will die off on its own.


----------



## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

Ich is a protozoa that is always present. Its much like the human common cold. Fish only become seriously infected with it if their immune system is compromised and is unable to ward off the attack. Usually this happens either by stress or environmental changes that causes stress. Fish are naturally able to resist the protozoa if they are healthy.


----------



## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

This guy always updates his info, and i'd consider very accurate:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Ich.html


----------



## Legot (Jun 29, 2013)

thelub said:


> Ich is a protozoa that is always present. Its much like the human common cold. Fish only become seriously infected with it if their immune system is compromised and is unable to ward off the attack. Usually this happens either by stress or environmental changes that causes stress. Fish are naturally able to resist the protozoa if they are healthy.


It's not like the human cold. People aren't fish either  Even if it's a protozoa, it attacks from the outside only, as a parasite, and it requires a susceptible host in order to live for more than a few days.


----------



## MondoBongo (Jul 21, 2013)

the ich protozoa is not always present. it has a life cycle and if it does not have a host, the life cycle cannot complete.

standard treatment is to remove all fish to a hospital tank and treat with copper (at least in the marine world) and leave the display fallow for 12 - 16 weeks to allow the ich to die out without a host.


----------



## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Just remember freshwater ich, and marine ich are totally separate things.


----------



## edstewart5 (Sep 24, 2013)

When I had ich, what I found during my research is that without a host it will die within a couple of days with the heat turned up, but to wait two weeks for fish to be reintroduced to be safe.


----------



## Legot (Jun 29, 2013)

edstewart5 said:


> When I had ich, what I found during my research is that without a host it will die within a couple of days with the heat turned up, but to wait two weeks for fish to be reintroduced to be safe.


It should die off within two weeks regardless of temperature with no host present.


----------



## edstewart5 (Sep 24, 2013)

Legot said:


> It should die off within two weeks regardless of temperature with no host present.


Heat speeds up its life cycle. So having the temp up just makes it happen quicker, that's all I was getting at.


----------



## MondoBongo (Jul 21, 2013)

CrypticLifeStyle said:


> Just remember freshwater ich, and marine ich are totally separate things.


Both ciliate protozoa with a similar life cycle, including their free swimming, encysted, and tomont phases. 

I don't understand why many people think it is some magical organism that is always present in every drop of water, all the time, forever. 

It is an animal that needs to be introduced to a host in order to survive and complete its like cycle. No host, no survival. 

Removing the fish and medicating them while allowing the tank to go fallow is a good, proven method for salt or fresh water.


----------

