# Simple Sump for Nano - Would It Work?



## iRun (Apr 12, 2011)

I'll start by saying I love the idea. You could even run more than one nano off a big sump. The only problem I foresee is that you need tempered glass to drill. You could have custom cubes built with tempered glass on the bottom and back. OR.... you could only have tempered put on the back panel and have inlet low and outlet high.


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## morninglight (Feb 20, 2012)

iRun said:


> The only problem I foresee is that you need tempered glass to drill.


Why tempered? Everything I've looked at seems to say that you should steer clear of tempered glass when you're looking to put holes in it. Admittedly, the sites I've found on drilling glass are as often about craft projects as aquariums.

In this entry on drilling aquariums, here's what one guy had to say:

"As a note, most commercial aquariums are built from tempered glass. You can't drill it. I mean, except that sometimes you can. It drills poorly and cracks easily. When I've done it, I used a deep guide, ~1/2-inch wood with a hole to guide the grinding bit and just took an extraordinary amount of time. And sometimes I ended up replacing one face of the tank because it broke."

If I was using "non-standard," creative sorts of materials, like a (very?) thick, sturdy glass vase, it should drill OK. But I just don't know if I could trust it afterwards, especially with the drain hole so close to the top of the glass.

It's still an academic question at this point. I'm not ready to actually put this into practice yet.


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## iRun (Apr 12, 2011)

Thank you, I totally had it backwards. Tempered = no drill. 

Now I'm all hung up on your idea, thanks alot man.


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## morninglight (Feb 20, 2012)

One possibility would be to take inspiration from fountains, and have the water literally overflow the top into another container rather than draining it out a drain tube directly. That would take some planning to work out right, but it could be an unusual and artistic choice for a mini aquarium. 

One way to work it would be to use a pretty glass container for the actual tank and a pottery bowl and nice river rocks for the fountain base. Just drill the drain hole to the sump tank around the back of the pottery bowl, and you're in business. You would still need to drill a hole in the glass container for the inflow, but you could do that in the bottom, since it's going to be on top of a base of your own devising.

Not sure I'd want to do this "decorative fountain" style, but it's one way to tackle the issue!


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## morninglight (Feb 20, 2012)

iRun said:


> Now I'm all hung up on your idea, thanks alot man.


Uh, oh. I'm spreading my MTS around!

The idea was that this was supposed to be an office tank, but we don't have an office yet. So I'm thinking, can this fit on my night stand? (Bad imagination! Go do something else; stop devising new ways to add fish tanks to my life!)

One offline opinion I've gotten is in favor of a small container being less of a worry for water pressure than a bigger tank. So, a super-nano 1 gallon-ish vase might be able to stand the pressure better than a larger plate glass one.

I'm thinking one of those rectangular vases for a betta. Or maybe a circular one. Or maybe I should call two tanks in one room enough.


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## CatB (Jan 29, 2012)

morninglight said:


> One possibility would be to take inspiration from fountains, and have the water literally overflow the top into another container rather than draining it out a drain tube directly. That would take some planning to work out right, but it could be an unusual and artistic choice for a mini aquarium.
> 
> One way to work it would be to use a pretty glass container for the actual tank and a pottery bowl and nice river rocks for the fountain base. Just drill the drain hole to the sump tank around the back of the pottery bowl, and you're in business. You would still need to drill a hole in the glass container for the inflow, but you could do that in the bottom, since it's going to be on top of a base of your own devising.
> 
> Not sure I'd want to do this "decorative fountain" style, but it's one way to tackle the issue!


a sump for a nano is a cool idea, seems like overkill to me, but i'm sure it would be fun if you have the time/money/resources-
as for the "fountain" idea, wouldn't water flow out of all sides of the nano unless it were tilted? you'd have to have it positioned right in the middle of the sump for it to overflow without making a mess on the floor, i'm just wondering how you'd suggest doing that? it's a neat idea, but i see it as very hazardous o_o


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## morninglight (Feb 20, 2012)

CatB said:


> a sump for a nano is a cool idea, seems like overkill to me, but i'm sure it would be fun if you have the time/money/resources


Actually, it wouldn't be that expensive. 

The sump itself: 5 gallon bucket and lid, rubbermaid storage container, or clear plastic file holder (all on the cheap side -- _especially_ the bucket)
Motor: aquarium water pump or fountain pump (less than $15)
Tubing System: airline tubing (cheap), check valve (also cheap), wider diameter tubing (probably a bit more expensive), silicone for sealing
Filtration: some PVC tube, creativity, and filter medium (cheap)
Heating: 25 watt regular heater (can be cheap)
Nano container: Nano aquarium, nice vase, pickle jar, whatever you can think of that sounds cool

You would also need to get (or borrow) an electric drill and find appropriate drill bit(s).

Some of those items you would have to get anyway for a regular nano, depending on how small it is. The other sump-specific things can't be much more than about 30 bucks total, if you are careful.

So, for not too much time and money, you can get all the visual effect of a nano without the water quality, heating, and filtration problems. Plus, I think the time and pain of super-demanding water changes on a tiny container would make this worth it alone.

If you like diy projects, this one is pretty simple and wouldn't be that hard or time intensive, aside from drilling the holes in the nano container of your choice, which is a bit nerve wracking.



CatB said:


> as for the "fountain" idea, wouldn't water flow out of all sides of the nano unless it were tilted? you'd have to have it positioned right in the middle of the sump for it to overflow without making a mess on the floor, i'm just wondering how you'd suggest doing that? it's a neat idea, but i see it as very hazardous o_o


Yes! The cascading water would be the point. 

Unlike the original diagram, the "fountain" setup would have 3 pieces, not 2.

Piece 1: the Tank (Almost certainly a vase, pitcher, or regular bowl of some sort. It would have to be see-through so that the betta — or whatever — could be viewed.)
Piece 2: the Overflow Base (Something decorative, and bigger than the tank, so it would catch the overflow. It wouldn't have to be glass or see-through. It could be a nice shallow ceramic bowl or whatever you like.)
Piece 3: The sump tank, safely out of sight.

The Overflow base would have water in it and would need a drainage hole at an appropriate place. With a base that doesn't have to be see-though for fish viewing or hold water almost to the top, like a tank does, that gives you more flexibility to place the drainage hole where you want it.

You're right — there's no escaping the drainage hole, unfortunately! Not with this way of doing a sump.

Here's an "artistic rendering" of what the fountain would look like:

OOOOOO
OOOOOO <--- glass nano container (in the center of the overflow base)
OOOOOO
OOO|000 < --- airline coming up through hole in nano container
-------------------
------------------- <--- decorative overflow base
// ------------
|| 
|| 
|| <--- the two tubes coming out of holes drilled in decorative base
||
||
||
-----------------------------
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| <---- Sump container, safely out of sight
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
-----------------------------

You might need to finesse some kind of partial cover or lid (mesh?) for the viewing tank, depending on what you put into it, so nothing living escapes into the "catch" basin.


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## iRun (Apr 12, 2011)

The sump solves alot of problems for a nano. Increaese water volume, greatly improves mechanical and biological filtration, stabilizes water parameters with less danger of massive upset, and perhaps most importantly let's you hide ugly stuff like heaters. Love this idea.


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## Wicket_lfe (Aug 21, 2008)

I did this, except i used a speciman container as an overflow box, and connected my 2.5 to my 38gal tank.

I do want to drill bulkheads though. that might be next. Esp if I can get an acrylic nano.

I would probably only drill one hole though. The additional hole is risky, especially for a return line. Sealing it might be a risk too for such a small size. And if that check valve fails, you have a near empty tank.

I would stick with the top bulkhead, and a simple return line.

Also what pump would you use?

You can check the shrimp tank in my sig to see what I did.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Tons of people drill small/nano/pico tanks for reef applications.

May want to check the various reef/marine forums for ideas and tried and true methods. Nano-Reef.com is a good place to start.


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## galabar (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm not sure that the check valve on a return going way below the water line is a safe approach. If that valve fails for some reason, you will get an overflow and an empty tank.

Now, if the sump has enough room to contain the overflow, the only think you need to worry about is the empty tank.

Also, you aren't going to be able to push much water through airline tubing (5/16" ID?).


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## morninglight (Feb 20, 2012)

Wicket_lfe said:


> I did this, except i used a speciman container as an overflow box, and connected my 2.5 to my 38gal tank.
> 
> I do want to drill bulkheads though. that might be next. Esp if I can get an acrylic nano.


Cool tank!



Wicket_lfe said:


> I would probably only drill one hole though. The additional hole is risky, especially for a return line. Sealing it might be a risk too for such a small size. And if that check valve fails, you have a near empty tank.
> 
> I would stick with the top bulkhead, and a simple return line.


Good point about the second hole. I probably should just stick with the top overflow and run the pumped line over the top.



Wicket_lfe said:


> Also what pump would you use?


It wouldn't take much of a pump, since this is a super nano application. I think a submersible fountain pump would be fine. After all, it's only running what would fit in airline tubing. In a tiny container, I would think that's all you need for flow rate, but I'm hardly and expert.


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## morninglight (Feb 20, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> Tons of people drill small/nano/pico tanks for reef applications.
> 
> May want to check the various reef/marine forums for ideas and tried and true methods. Nano-Reef.com is a good place to start.


Good suggestion!

The main thing I came up with was that this might be a little noisy, since it is gravity fed and the flow into the sump is not intended to completely fill the tube. So it will require some experimenting to eliminate splashing and burbling sounds as it returns to the sump.


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## Wicket_lfe (Aug 21, 2008)

as long as you can find an adequate water pump, I'm all for it.

I had a tough enough time finding mine, and I've already throttled it down. I also got picky about it being external, hehe.


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## Ryi (Mar 29, 2009)

I did it years ago with Tetra 3 gallon (oval) and a 5 gallon sump (AllGlass). I actually had the 5 gallon behind the main tank instead of below.
Used a u-tube and overflow box on the 3 gallon (took some improvisation) and fed the 5 gallon, then had a powerhead with foam sleeve and polishing pad insert sending the cleaned water back via clear tubing to the 3 gallon.
It made water changes and establishing chemical equilibrium stupid-easy. It didn't accomplish my second objective of a clean, simple look, however, as the overflow was almost as big as the Red Sea (now Palm Azoo) mini h.o.b. I was trying to replace.
I think your plan of a nano sump sounds great, good luck!


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## morninglight (Feb 20, 2012)

Wicket_lfe said:


> as long as you can find an adequate water pump, I'm all for it.
> 
> I had a tough enough time finding mine, and I've already throttled it down. I also got picky about it being external, hehe.


I'm inclined to think that a submersible pump would be simplest, but I would have to do some real research first. Still, I think something could be found. I have a really good LFS and there's always the internet, too.



Ryi said:


> I did it years ago with Tetra 3 gallon (oval) and a 5 gallon sump (AllGlass). I actually had the 5 gallon behind the main tank instead of below.
> Used a u-tube and overflow box on the 3 gallon (took some improvisation) and fed the 5 gallon, then had a powerhead with foam sleeve and polishing pad insert sending the cleaned water back via clear tubing to the 3 gallon.
> It made water changes and establishing chemical equilibrium stupid-easy. It didn't accomplish my second objective of a clean, simple look, however, as the overflow was almost as big as the Red Sea (now Palm Azoo) mini h.o.b. I was trying to replace.
> I think your plan of a nano sump sounds great, good luck!


Yeah, the overflow box would kind of wreck the clean effect. It would certainly put a downward limit on the size and shape of the nano. 

I don't know that I'd trust the siphon if the power went off, too. I've heard that they may be OK, but I'm a suspicious sort.

I'm currently adding the fish population to my first tank and working on putting together tank number 2, so this is not exactly the highest on my list right now, but I would like to tackle the project at some point. I think I'd put a betta in one of these. It might be nice to run three different shapes and sizes of mini nano off the same sump. That's what I'd be tempted to do for an office setup.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

iRun said:


> The sump solves alot of problems for a nano. Increaese water volume, greatly improves mechanical and biological filtration, stabilizes water parameters with less danger of massive upset, and perhaps most importantly let's you hide ugly stuff like heaters. Love this idea.


+1, 

The main issue is the placement of the return, it is placed higher, then if the check valve fails............you are safe still. So placing the drain just slightly below the water surface will reduce much loss of water in the main tank if the power goes out and if the check valve fails.

*This stuff will and does fail.*

Another idea is to copy the Mame overflow design. 
But I'd stick with your idea but place the return up higher.
This way if anything goes wrong, the volume of water drained into the sump is only an inch etc and the tank is not drained.

This will happen, it's only a question of WHEN.


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## morninglight (Feb 20, 2012)

plantbrain said:


> This will happen, it's only a question of WHEN.


Good point. 

I originally didn't want the line down low because of the possibility of failure, but then I thought of the check valve, and I'll admit that I kind of thought at the time that it was a magic solution that wouldn't fail itself. Alas, not so.

Definitely need to consider possible failure at every point.


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## Wicket_lfe (Aug 21, 2008)

LMK when you pick a pump/powerhead.


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## crazydog64 (Jul 25, 2011)

Couldn't you have your inflow just as high as your outflow but on the opposite side of the tank, that way if the pump+checkvalve did fail your tank would only drain as low as it would have anyway; or if you wanted to try something crazy you could put your smaller diameter inflow tubing inside your larger diamter outflow tubing, it would probably negate some of the water exhange going on in the tank, but you would only have 1 hole.


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## asmith (Mar 29, 2012)

You aren't going to get much flow on your return line since you won't have any pressure head. You might want to do some experiments first to make sure you size your return line correctly before doing the real thing. Edit: I meant the "overflow" line not the return line I guess the way everyone else is using it. I am used to the return line being the side that returns to the pump.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agree with the comments about raising the return line higher in the tank. This was a huge issue with ZeroEdge aquariums. The check valves failed and emptied the tank on the floor. Not fun.

Not sure what size your display is, but air line tubing for the return? :icon_eek:
I'd go with a standard size return line personally. You can push whatever flow rate you want through it, and valves, accessories, etc will be much better quality and more durable.


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## illiath (Mar 30, 2012)

Here's my Pico Saltwater tank setup.

Mine is backwards from what your suggesting, my 'fuge (sump) is on the right and is higher than the display tank.

The reason for that was simple, I bought a 5g ADA tank for the display, and could not bring myself to even think about drilling that guy. The sump is a 2g Evolve with none of the filtration running, because I do that elsewhere.

When I upgrade/replace the Freshwater tank, I'll be going with a pre-drilled/bulkheaded tank, but that guys huge so not really what you are after.

If you have money, I'd actually suggest a resource for you, check out http://www.micro-reefs.com/, they're a small company that specializes in smaller reef tanks, they have a new system which is pre-manufactured display and fuge setups. I only found out about those guys after buying my current setup, otherwise I wouldn't have gone the way I did. They're products page changes often, so you might want to send them an email. They seem willing to do specialty builds also.


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