# inert gravel plants



## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

any help? :^P

i was thinking of dwarf saggitaria.
Would that plant be able to survive in the regular gravel? Also, since i kinda have a bit of a tint of tannins in the water to calm the betta, 2wpg isnt really 2wpg down on the surface.

Is this a good choice though?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

My personal favorite low-light carpet is Echinodorus tenellus 'narrow' (pygmy chain sword 'narrow') Dwarf sag. or maybe Marselia minuta might work for you, though. I'm pretty sure that you'll need higher lighting plus ferts to get Glosso to do much? 

With an inert substrate, you're going to get very slow growth from anything you plant, unless you dose with something.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

after looking at the substrates section, what if i did this.

Take out all the gravel in the places that i want to keep the carpet plant, spread SpecialKitty litter over it about 1 inch~1.5 inch, and then put like half an inch of gravel over the top. Would this work? Im just not sure if the the roots will be able to get nutrients from the litter if its under gravel.


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## loachlady5 (Dec 9, 2007)

Lots of people use sand, which is inert,so I don't think your substrate will be a problem. Also, keep in mind that even ecocomplete loses it's nutrients eventually. Lauraleellbp is right, though. Those people with inert substrates that have nice looking plants fertilizer regularly. You can use plant tabs. Be sure you dose EI amounts - high.


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## EricSilver (Feb 23, 2004)

CobraGuppy said:


> i was thinking of dwarf saggitaria. Would that plant be able to survive in the regular gravel? Also, since i kinda have a bit of a tint of tannins in the water to calm the betta, 2wpg isnt really 2wpg down on the surface.


Dwarf Saq will do just fine. 

Keep in mind that a 20 long is a shallow tank. My 29 is the same length and depth, but about 6 inches taller. Before I did a retrofit to 65W lighting, I had 40 watts and the plants grew very well, very quickly. In a 20L, they would have done even better. 

If you are concerned about the substrate, just add some fertlizer tabs or spikes. 

In the pictures you supplied, the tank does look a bit dark, and you mentioned something about needing reflectors for the light. I would make that a priority, if you have not already done so.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

ok, for reflectors, since my hood is diy, i have to make my own reflectors.

Should i use little mirrors (if i can find some) or should i use aluminum foil.

I dont do ei dosing. Its too much for me to handle ><
Should i get the line of Seachem stuff. I think there are 3 of them.
I have excel now.

Of course i will buy root tabs. I had 8 roottabs from api but i think my cousin used it all.

and i might go with the kitty litter. That should help


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Kitty litter is inert- FWIW if you want to minimize fert dosing, then my 2cents is to invest a little now in a plant substrate like Flourite. If you want you could mix one $20/20lb bag in with your gravel for a 50/50 mix- definitely better than nothing.

Seachem's liquid ferts are good. I think their "plant package" or something like that has the basics you'd need.

Dry ferts are cheaper in the long run, though. www.RexGrigg.com is a good place to buy dry ferts.


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## EricSilver (Feb 23, 2004)

CobraGuppy said:


> Should i use little mirrors (if i can find some) or should i use aluminum foil.


Alumninum foil diffuses light, so go with mirrors, or better yet, a smooth Mylar film which you should find at any crafts store. 

Alternatively, you can paint the area behind the bulbs the brightest white you can find (using an outdoor latex paint -- or an automotive paint).


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## Spiritwind (Feb 2, 2008)

White paint for reflectors. Dwarf sagittaria or pygmy chain sword, aka sagittaria subulata or enchindorus tennellus would be tons easier than glosso for you. Just as stated previously use fert tabs or spikes. Kitty litter is super cheap, but I wouldnt recommend layering of it, I think it does better when reaching the water column. You could swap it out though entirely, it does look like gravel on its own.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

what does FWIW mean?

thanks for the white paint reflector idea, never thought of that...

Hm, i might go with eco compltete. I would love to have onyx but my dang xp3 blows everything around. Is ecocomplete pretty heavy? Also, the other reason im buying this is because my lfs has it lol. Dont wanna pay shipping.

For dry ferts, im so confused lol. Which ones should i buy? Or should i buy the Fertilizer combo pack?

Im just scared of overdose and all...

I might stick with enchindorus tennellus because my tank is low and i want the plant to be low too (some ppl say dwarf sag grows tall after a while)

With all these stuff, its probably 50+, ill have to wait for b-day money...

June D:

*sigh*

Oh well, doesnt hurt to plan early


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

For What It's Worth

You might want to look at the black Fluorite, if your LFS has that- the grain size is bigger than either the Onyx or Flourite black sand.

Dry ferts are cheap- you can get a starter pack with everything you need from the RexGrigg site for like $25 shipped, that will be cheaper than Seachem by a long shot, since should last at least a year in a low-light setup. Ferts do look overwhelming at first, but they're really not, just give yourself time and it will slowly start to make sense. Basically all you're doing is providing the basic ingredients for plant photosynthesis and growth.

I hear you on the 'hurry up and wait' thing; I've been working on my current project since January, and still not a drop of water in my tank!! (next week though should be the big day- woohoo!!!)


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## EricSilver (Feb 23, 2004)

CobraGuppy said:


> Is ecocomplete pretty heavy?
> 
> I might stick with enchindorus tennellus because my tank is low and i want the plant to be low too (some ppl say dwarf sag grows tall after a while)


EcoComplete is a coarse sand, and weighs essentially the same. I regret replacing all of it in my tank -- should have left some in. 

I have Dwarf Sag that is about 11-12 inches high. (Hardly a "dwarf" in my opinion.) It is in front of some corkscrew valinseria, and I have to look hard to see where one ends and other begins.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Oh- that reminds me- make sure you get the E. tenellus* 'narrow'* the other subspecies also get much taller.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

hm. think my lfs does have flourite. Although im not sure if it is sand or coarse kind. Its black though.

I think it is 25 bucks for 15 pounds...
Will two bags be enough?

Does anyone know a good online place where i can buy it for a good price( which includes shipping)

edit: I forgot to ask, which substrate is better? Eco complete or Flourite black? 

Im really scared of rinsing fl though xD i rinsed playsand once and never want to rinse another thing in my life.

Is it the same way though, like put 3 inchs in a 5 gallon bucket and just run water through until the water runs clear.

I think i may be able to buy these stuff now.

We went shopping today and my sister bought so much stuff, i can say that why does she get to buy stuff but i dont 

woohoo


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I hear the Fluorite black actually doesn't need anywhere near the kind of rinsing that the red does. 2 bags should be more than enough for a 20gal, IMO. 

I currently have 5 bags of unopened EcoComplete that I'm strongly considering taking back to my LFS and switching for Fluorite; I've been hearing more and more over the past month or two that CaribSea seems to be having some quality control issues with the Eco? People are reporting different colors, shapes, white chunks mixed in, shells, and that the Eco is raising and buffering a higher pH and hardness... which I don't want in my tank since I plan on eventually keeping discus...

I priced out buying substrates online and the shipping ended up killing me; personally it was much cheaper to buy from my LFS.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

yay, if two bags are more than enough, then i might save some for a 5 gallon betta tank project i plan to do soon!

I really need to go to my lfs. If they are too expensive though, i might consider buying from here:

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~SC5235.html

its 19+6 dollars shipping so 25 dollars a bag. Not sure if i have to pay individual shipping per bag though.

edit: wait nevermind, i tried to buy 2 bags just to see the price and they have extra charges just for "special handling" >.> the total is like 60 dollars then.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

arg, i went to one petstore today and they had flourite but it was the mixed color kind.

Its 25 dollars though ><

i guess ill have to try other stores...


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## jlroar (Aug 19, 2007)

Here is a link to Bi Gals Online. he he he......

http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCa...black_7_kg?&query=florite&queryType=0&offset=

No really it is Big Als Online a fish store. I bet you were freak-n-out! Around $16 per bag and decent shipping IMO.

James


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Extra shipping for bulky items, and substrates are in that category.

$25 for 20lbs Fluorite at my LFS too, but was still cheaper than online with all the extra shipping charges...


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## jlroar (Aug 19, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> Extra shipping for bulky items, and substrates are in that category.
> 
> $25 for 20lbs Fluorite at my LFS too, but was still cheaper than online with all the extra shipping charges...


I thought you wanted black and was unable to get black from your lfs. I did a trial run on purchasing it and it gave me $17 shipping.

16 black Flourite
+16 black Flourite
+17 S/H
==================
=49 Total

You may want to give it a trial run to see if the S/H is worth it for solid black.

James


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

hm, does flourite come in 20 lb bags?

I always see it in 15.4 pound ones.
50 dollars is the same price if i bought two bags outside xD

Ill just check other stores before i go that route because its still the same price but i have to wait to get it.


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