# Cheap co2 system for tank?



## mrswis

Hey guys.. First off I'm not looking to do anymore DIY co2. Instead I'd really like to move over to the real stuff. 
However I'm not sure what to get. I'm completely new to the co2 system that uses the co2 tanks and bubble counters. I'm looking for some direction. I've seen some sets on Amazon? Are those good, which ones would you recommend?
Anyways, any help and direction is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## FewestKitten896

You will get a lot of mixed comments. For cheap, I think AquaTek (less than $100), Milwuakee (less than $100), and co2art (some less than $100, some more) are going to be your best bets. For something more expensive you can look at co2art dual stage regulator, and also GLA regulators (I think these start around $200). There are probably some bundles also that include co2 tank but I think your best bet to save is look on craigslist, fleabay, and I think beverage factory has them. You can probably also find some reconditioned bottles at a fire extinguisher place. Some people will also say build one, which I did but honestly, it was more of a headache finding every part for the build. Please note that some of the cheaper regulators have been known to not last or leak co2 but there are lots of people that have had good success from when I was doing my research.


----------



## mrswis

FewestKitten896 said:


> You will get a lot of mixed comments. For cheap, I think AquaTek (less than $100), Milwuakee (less than $100), and co2art (some less than $100, some more) are going to be your best bets. For something more expensive you can look at co2art dual stage regulator, and also GLA regulators (I think these start around $200). There are probably some bundles also that include co2 tank but I think your best bet to save is look on craigslist, fleabay, and I think beverage factory has them. You can probably also find some reconditioned bottles at a fire extinguisher place. Some people will also say build one, which I did but honestly, it was more of a headache finding every part for the build. Please note that some of the cheaper regulators have been known to not last or leak co2 but there are lots of people that have had good success from when I was doing my research.


Thank you, I will check them out. Yeah I assumed I'd get a lot of subjective opinions and recommendations. I just have no clue where to look for starting with the "real" co2. The DIY co2 method isn't the most ideal for me, so currently I'm just dosing with liquid co2 instead. But would love to see the plants really flourish. Do they sell whole kits of everything I need?
I don't want to go too cheap, especially since you mentioned some may leak or break. I'd be worried about that. I was thinking of spending between $100 - $200, but preferably nothing over $200. I've seen how some of the co2 systems can get very expensive. While I'm sure they work fantastic, it's not in my budget at the moment.


----------



## Cremepuff

I've actually seen some on evilbay for $40. Now as previous people have stated, going cheap on the Co2 system can be a really bad thing, however I've actually heard a couple of good reviews on it. Maybe you can use this for a stand by regulator or a sort of intro to Co2. The only thing bad I've heard about it was leaky pressure gauges in which the company refunded. I believe there are some with 6 month warranties for it as well. Here's someone using it on a paintball set up:










I actually just bought it and it should be arriving within the next week or so. I'll probably make an update as to how well it works. I plan on switching out the gauges for some other ones I have. :grin2: 

Also it seems that both you and I are at the same stage of setting up our planted tanks (getting all the equipment sorted, buying the plants etc) so I too am learning as I go. If you need any help or have any questions just let me know and I'll see if there's anything I can help you with.


----------



## Axelrodi202

CO2 is the last thing you want to go cheap on. That cheap regulator may seem like a great deal until you get poor performance that causes plant growth issues or gasses all your fish.


----------



## darkohanzo

What size tank do you have? Im interested in what people think since Im new to the CO2 aspect and im thinking about getting into it also. I already have a Paintball tank (I got old) so I just need the Regulator/bubble counter mainly
(I dont mean to hijack the thread im just coming up with different options if possible)


----------



## Tvadna

+1 on this. CO2 is just not something to skimp on. I've gassed out more tanks then I care to admit, even killing 100 german blue ram that I have bred. The longer I'm in this hobby the more this holds true..... More money up front = better stuff = easier hobby = more enjoyable. If a good system is out of your budget, you need to save more or do more research so you can build your own.

If you want to go cheap, just go with a DIY system. You can't go cheaper then a $.50 yeast package, $1.00 for sugar, $1.5 for airline tubing and $2.00 for a pop bottle. Plus you get free pop or juice! $4 gets you CO2... hard to beat that. You won't gas any fish out this way either.


----------



## Hilde

The cheapest reliable 1 I have found is a regulator and solenoid set from GLA for about $200.

If you are just looking for a regulator read the thread on this forum for regulators. Then look for name brands on Ebay.

For paintball tank I found CO2 Regulator WRCO2 for $70 on Ebay. It was 1 that was recommended to me.


----------



## Hilde

Tvadna said:


> If you want to go cheap, just go with a DIY system. You can't go cheaper then a $.50 yeast package, $1.00 for sugar, $1.5 for airline tubing and $2.00 for a pop bottle. Plus you get free pop or juice! $4 gets you CO2... hard to beat that. You won't gas any fish out this way either.


It gives off a beer smell. Most reliable if you have 4 bottles connected in series. Cheap means you have to work harder to maintain stability of system.


----------



## charlie 1

This might just fit your wants.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/153-sale-trade/1114794-gla-gro-1-regulator-free-shipping.html


----------



## Hilde

charlie 1 said:


> This might just fit your wants.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/153-sale-trade/1114794-gla-gro-1-regulator-free-shipping.html


He has a 20oz paintball he is looking to setup for co2 system. That is a great find though. I see new it sells for $205


----------



## herns

Read reviews on Amazon before you purchased. Cheapo regs. usually, are not reliable.


----------



## filipem

You get what you pay for with co2 systems. If your going to keep a tank with plants only. feel free to experiment. If you intend to keep livestock your asking for trouble. Look for a dual stage or good quality single stage regulator. A good needle valve is also important. You can be a little more liberal with your choices with the help other stuff. Tubing diffuser.... etc.

Be patient and look at buying used. Most of the expensive components of a co2 setup will last a lifetime. You should also be able get most if not all of your money back should you decide to sell it one day.


----------



## mrswis

Cremepuff said:


> I've actually seen some on evilbay for $40. Now as previous people have stated, going cheap on the Co2 system can be a really bad thing, however I've actually heard a couple of good reviews on it. Maybe you can use this for a stand by regulator or a sort of intro to Co2. The only thing bad I've heard about it was leaky pressure gauges in which the company refunded. I believe there are some with 6 month warranties for it as well. Here's someone using it on a paintball set up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually just bought it and it should be arriving within the next week or so. I'll probably make an update as to how well it works. I plan on switching out the gauges for some other ones I have. :grin2:
> 
> Also it seems that both you and I are at the same stage of setting up our planted tanks (getting all the equipment sorted, buying the plants etc) so I too am learning as I go. If you need any help or have any questions just let me know and I'll see if there's anything I can help you with.


Oh yes, do let me know how it goes! How much did you spend on it? I started with a 20 gallon, moved to a 40, then 72 and now just set up a brand new 75. Did a few things differently each time and its always been a learning experience as I go. Tried the yeast co2 and it's grrat and all but honestly I've seen more progress with the liquid co2. 

As for the other responses, unfortunately I do not have an extra $200 laying around to throw at something like this. Kids are expensive you know.


----------



## mrswis

darkohanzo said:


> What size tank do you have? Im interested in what people think since Im new to the CO2 aspect and im thinking about getting into it also. I already have a Paintball tank (I got old) so I just need the Regulator/bubble counter mainly
> (I dont mean to hijack the thread im just coming up with different options if possible)


I have a 75. We have some paintball tanks as well. Yeah, I'm totally new to the whole co2 thing as well. Just hoping people have some suggestions here that will help me out. I'm kind of lost when it comes to exactly what instruments the whole co2 system will need..


----------



## Tvadna

Hilde said:


> It gives off a beer smell. Most reliable if you have 4 bottles connected in series. Cheap means you have to work harder to maintain stability of system.


If you can smell it, it means that gas is escaping. If gas is escaping you aren't getting CO2 in the tank anyway.

A series connection would imply the second bottle is gaining an advantage from the first, and 3rd gaining an advantage from the 2nd and so on. Because they are all producing gas, as the volume (number of bottles) increases you're really just connecting them in parallel. Why is 4 more reliable then 3 bottles or 5 bottles? One large bottle is just as effective as 4 small bottles given the volume is the same. 


Less number of connections = Less number of potential leak points. 

More bottles = more connections = more potential leaks = more changing bottles = more work.


----------



## Tvadna

mrswis said:


> Hey guys.. First off I'm not looking to do anymore DIY co2. Instead I'd really like to move over to the real stuff.
> However I'm not sure what to get. I'm completely new to the co2 system that uses the co2 tanks and bubble counters. I'm looking for some direction. I've seen some sets on Amazon? Are those good, which ones would you recommend?
> Anyways, any help and direction is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Paintball seems like the next logical step after DIY CO2 but I'll try to save you some trouble by advising against them. They're small so you'll have to refill them often plus they tip easy. Secondly, the adapters don't usually regulate, not the cheap ones you'll find. There are some regulators that can and will work but for the money, you might as well go bigger.

Here is how the bigger CO2 tanks work with our hobby. (5lb, 10lb, 20lbs are most common)

CO2 Tank->CGA320 fitting->regulator->solenoid->metering valve->Aquarium(choose your diffusion method)

Look at dual stage regulators. Low flow/low output work best for our hobby. Single stage regulators work but the big difference is that they dump CO2 into the aquarium when the tank is low and kill your fish. Secondly, look at a good needle or metering valve. These are the two most important and necessary pieces in a system and should be the bulk of any money spent. Solenoids are nice but aren't required by any means. Depending on how you disperse the CO2 into the aquarium you may want to use a bubble counter to measure how much you are putting in. There are some diffusion methods that you can count the bubbles as they go and can skip the bubble counter.

You can build them yourself but its not advisable if you're brand new. Plenty are for sale, here and elsewhere. Just remember, chrome systems don't work any better then a brass or mix and match system.


----------



## Kubla

If you have a paintball tank you can use it temporary. Shop for a decent regulator. Grab a paintball tank to CO2 reg adapter and use your tank for a month or 2 then move to bigger tank.


----------



## Kubla

You don't have to spend a lot of money of you take your time and shop right. I purchased an Aquatek "Deluxe" setup from Amazon and used it for about 2 years with very few issues. I gathered deals until I came up with this. I have about $80 total invested.


----------



## natemcnutty

mrswis said:


> I have a 75. We have some paintball tanks as well. Yeah, I'm totally new to the whole co2 thing as well. Just hoping people have some suggestions here that will help me out. I'm kind of lost when it comes to exactly what instruments the whole co2 system will need..


If you already have multiple paintball tanks, I'd assume you know where to fill them cheaply and can do a couple at a time. In that case, I would look at the Aquatek Mini which I think is reliable enough for the price: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008TJCPSY/

I get that larger tanks last longer and dual stage regs are better, but doing the math for myself, I had to get at least a 10lb tank to come out ahead over the paintball setup, and I could only find places that swap bigger tanks, not just fill them. Since I have no place to hide a tank larger than 2.5lb, I want something that looks acceptable.

I personally have two 24oz tanks, and I just swap them out and fill up when convenient. Dick's Sporting Goods is 3 minutes away from me, costs $5 for fill up and new O-ring, and every 6th fill is free.


----------



## mrswis

Tvadna said:


> Paintball seems like the next logical step after DIY CO2 but I'll try to save you some trouble by advising against them. They're small so you'll have to refill them often plus they tip easy. Secondly, the adapters don't usually regulate, not the cheap ones you'll find. There are some regulators that can and will work but for the money, you might as well go bigger.
> 
> Here is how the bigger CO2 tanks work with our hobby. (5lb, 10lb, 20lbs are most common)
> 
> CO2 Tank->CGA320 fitting->regulator->solenoid->metering valve->Aquarium(choose your diffusion method)
> 
> Look at dual stage regulators. Low flow/low output work best for our hobby. Single stage regulators work but the big difference is that they dump CO2 into the aquarium when the tank is low and kill your fish. Secondly, look at a good needle or metering valve. These are the two most important and necessary pieces in a system and should be the bulk of any money spent. Solenoids are nice but aren't required by any means. Depending on how you disperse the CO2 into the aquarium you may want to use a bubble counter to measure how much you are putting in. There are some diffusion methods that you can count the bubbles as they go and can skip the bubble counter.
> 
> You can build them yourself but its not advisable if you're brand new. Plenty are for sale, here and elsewhere. Just remember, chrome systems don't work any better then a brass or mix and match system.


Thank you very much for sharing all this information. It really helps, especially the parts of the system broken down. That's where I was mostly confused. I have a 75gallon tank, how long would 1 paintball tank keep before I'd have to refill it for a 75?
I do plan on using a bubble counter, as I'd like to know how much co2 is going into the tank. 

Bump:


Kubla said:


> You don't have to spend a lot of money of you take your time and shop right. I purchased an Aquatek "Deluxe" setup from Amazon and used it for about 2 years with very few issues. I gathered deals until I came up with this.  I have about $80 total invested.


Thank you! I will check it out and see if I can find it.  
Looks like something that would be pretty ideal. What size tank doe this fit onto?


----------



## Hilde

Kubla said:


> You don't have to spend a lot of money of you take your time and shop right. I purchased an Aquatek "Deluxe" setup from Amazon and used it for about 2 years with very few issues. I gathered deals until I came up with this. I have about $80 total invested.


This is what I find googling Aquatek "Deluxe It does not look like the 1 in your link.

Bump:


mrswis said:


> how long would 1 paintball tank keep before I'd have to refill it for a 75?



At 1 to 3bps I have found 24oz will last about 3 months. I will try to find the tread where this is discussed. This is what I found googling it


----------



## Tvadna

My 20lb CO2 tanks typically run between 1 bubble/second and 1 bubble every 5 seconds. They usually last 9-12 months on average. I do not have a solenoid so they are running 24/7. 

I would guess a paintball tank might last between 3 weeks to a month if your output was similar to what I do. 

Paintball tank lasts about as long as DIY CO2. They require a trip to the store and DIY doesn't. Paintball costs more then DIY. Seems like it would be a step backward to me.


----------



## mrswis

Hmm, I could not find the aquatek deluxe one either. I checked on Amazon and found smaller ones with not so good ratings.


----------



## Hilde

Tvadna said:


> Paintball tank lasts about as long as DIY CO2. They require a trip to the store and DIY doesn't. Paintball costs more then DIY. Seems like it would be a step backward to me.


Running 24/7 probably the same time line. Using Paintball tank a solenoid can be added to the system.

Have you tried the DIY Co2 systems? I have. I problems with leaks with the yeast mixture and citric acid mixture. Paintball Co2 system is suppose to be more stable and consistent than DIY thus it can't be a step back.


----------



## Tvadna

Hilde said:


> Running 24/7 probably the same time line. Using Paintball tank a solenoid can be added to the system.
> 
> Have you tried the DIY Co2 systems? I have. I problems with leaks with the yeast mixture and citric acid mixture. Paintball Co2 system is suppose to be more stable and consistent than DIY thus it can't be a step back.


Not only have I tried them, I still use DIY CO2 on my lower light tank. The two jugs are sitting right next to the paintball tank that I don't use....

If I had to drive to a store and pay $10 to get that little tank refilled every 3 weeks instead of mixing the DIY myself, I call it a step back, especially considering the $100+ spent on a paintball regulator could have been used on a full size system in the first place. 
Also, the cost per ounce to exchange a 20lb tank is much cheaper then to refill a paintball tank. 5 to 10 times more expensive for me.

I suggest using bulkhead fittings for your DIY system if you're having leaks.


----------



## Hilde

Tvadna said:


> If I had to drive to a store and pay $10 to get that little tank refilled every 3 weeks instead of mixing the DIY myself, I call it a step back.


If the time line was 3 weeks I would stick to Cidex for Co2 additive. 

I could not find bulk heads so I tried Co2 system with caps that have tube connector. Could not get those to work. 

Anyways DIY co2 is not an option here for he has a very curious toddler to deal with.


----------



## jellopuddinpop

I bought this single stage regulator / solenoid / Needle Valve combo:

CO2 Regulator with Solenoid & Dual Gauges for Vertical Cylinder Valves | CO2 Supermarket

If you get this one, make sure you go with the upgraded needle valve; it’s worth it. You’ll also need an adapter if you want to use paintball canisters. With this combo, the only other things you will need are; a bubble counter, brass check valves (the normal plastic ones will harder from the CO2 and stop working), and a means to diffuse the CO2. 

I’m using a canister filter, and found that the inline CO2 diffusor from UpAqua has been great. It’s worth buying an extra ceramic piece, that way you can swap it out each time you clean the filter. You can then clean the dirty one without having too much down time on your filtration.


----------



## Hilde

jellopuddinpop said:


> I bought this single stage regulator / solenoid / Needle Valve combo:
> 
> CO2 Regulator with Solenoid & Dual Gauges for Vertical Cylinder Valves | CO2 Supermarket


I checked it out and found that the shipping almost as high as cost of item. How much did you pay for it after shipping cost? It comes from England

Bump:


jellopuddinpop said:


> I’m using a canister filter, and found that the inline CO2 diffusor from UpAqua has been great.


There is a knock of this on evilbay way cheaper than it and works the same.


----------



## jellopuddinpop

Hilde said:


> I checked it out and found that the shipping almost as high as cost of item. How much did you pay for it after shipping cost? It comes from England


I'm not sure if you went to the right site, but right in the banner it says "Free global shipping on all orders over £20" I didn't pay any shipping at all.


----------



## sdwindansea

Hilde said:


> I checked it out and found that the shipping almost as high as cost of item. How much did you pay for it after shipping cost? It comes from England


I know nothing about the company, but it does say free global shipping on orders greater than £20. Is it safe to go with a single stage regulator?


----------



## jellopuddinpop

sdwindansea said:


> I know nothing about the company, but it does say free global shipping on orders greater than £20. Is it safe to go with a single stage regulator?


You’re going to find dissenting views on this subject. If you are diligent with your setup and are sure to check your CO2 once a week or so, it’s my opinion that there is minimal risk with a single stage regulator. The standing pressure in the tank will start to drop once the tank runs out of liquid CO2. If that pressure drops too far, the regulator can suddenly fail and, in effect, open all the way. You typically have at least a couple of weeks between the time that the standing tank pressure begins to drop and the “end of tank dump”. If you fill your cylinder before you run out of CO2, it should be a non-issue. Even with a dual stage regulator, you really don’t want your tank to run out because then you’re going to be delivering inconsistent CO2 to your plants.


----------



## Hilde

sdwindansea said:


> I know nothing about the company, but it does say free global shipping on orders greater than £20. Is it safe to go with a single stage regulator?


Oh now I remember it was co2art.co.uk. I had seen this setup. Read that it is sold my the same manufacturer in China.


----------



## mrswis

Hilde said:


> Oh now I remember it was co2art.co.uk. I had seen this setup. Read that it is sold my the same manufacturer in China.


I'm not sure if they are the same or not, but I was looking around that website and I'm pretty sure I saw the same ones on a China site as well. Makes me wonder about the true origin of some of the more expensive ones on Amazon. I'm sure many of them are still made in China, so I can't imagine that an expensive one from Amazon or a cheap one purchased directly off a site and shipped from China, really has any difference? 

Am I allowed to post the direct link to the regulators I was looking at on the other site?


----------



## Axelrodi202

mrswis said:


> As for the other responses, unfortunately I do not have an extra $200 laying around to throw at something like this. Kids are expensive you know.


And so is replacing a whole tank of dead fish or plants smothered by algae. 

I seriously recommend saving up for a quality system. CO2 malfunctions cause some of the most heartbreaking disasters this hobby has to offer...


----------



## mrswis

Axelrodi202 said:


> And so is replacing a whole tank of dead fish or plants smothered by algae.
> 
> I seriously recommend saving up for a quality system. CO2 malfunctions cause some of the most heartbreaking disasters this hobby has to offer...


Unfortunately I'm just here looking for cheaper suggestions.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tvadna

jellopuddinpop said:


> I bought this single stage regulator / solenoid / Needle Valve combo:
> 
> CO2 Regulator with Solenoid & Dual Gauges for Vertical Cylinder Valves | CO2 Supermarket
> 
> If you get this one, make sure you go with the upgraded needle valve; it’s worth it. You’ll also need an adapter if you want to use paintball canisters. With this combo, the only other things you will need are; a bubble counter, brass check valves (the normal plastic ones will harder from the CO2 and stop working), and a means to diffuse the CO2.
> 
> I’m using a canister filter, and found that the inline CO2 diffusor from UpAqua has been great. It’s worth buying an extra ceramic piece, that way you can swap it out each time you clean the filter. You can then clean the dirty one without having too much down time on your filtration.


This is a really interesting unit. Looks like it was produced just for our hobby. Since we are such a small niche in the market, manufacturers haven't or are slow to catered to our needs.
It is extremely compact. Might be a benefit if you're trying to hide it under a stand but it certainly is much less modular then a standard set up. The input pressure gauge reads up to 3500PSI which is a waste since CO2 tanks are less then 1500 when full but this is fairly standard and not a huge deal. The output pressure gauge leaves quite a bit to be desired. It reads up to 140psi and no one comes close to this pressure. (If you're going to make something just for the hobby, tailor the product to the hobby) Would be difficult to use with low pressure systems. It is also a single stage regulator so that is an issue. It is made for vertical output tanks... maybe these are common elsewhere in the world. It also doesn't say whether it is a CGA-320 nut, it only uses the term standard. Maybe standard is British or maybe it works for paintball. 

Even their dual stage that claims to be built for the hobby has similar issues. Plus the solenoid doesn't come with a US electrical option.


----------



## jellopuddinpop

Tvadna said:


> This is a really interesting unit. Looks like it was produced just for our hobby. Since we are such a small niche in the market, manufacturers haven't or are slow to catered to our needs.
> It is extremely compact. Might be a benefit if you're trying to hide it under a stand but it certainly is much less modular then a standard set up. The input pressure gauge reads up to 3500PSI which is a waste since CO2 tanks are less then 1500 when full but this is fairly standard and not a huge deal. The output pressure gauge leaves quite a bit to be desired. It reads up to 140psi and no one comes close to this pressure. (If you're going to make something just for the hobby, tailor the product to the hobby) Would be difficult to use with low pressure systems. It is also a single stage regulator so that is an issue. It is made for vertical output tanks... maybe these are common elsewhere in the world. It also doesn't say whether it is a CGA-320 nut, it only uses the term standard. Maybe standard is British or maybe it works for paintball.
> 
> Even their dual stage that claims to be built for the hobby has similar issues. Plus the solenoid doesn't come with a US electrical option.


I completely agree with the issues about the pressure being higher than our typical needs. However, they also offer a horizontal output option, they mention it's compatible with CGA-320, as well as the optional paintball adapter, and the plug needs to be selected from a drop down box (UK vs US).

I can't comment on reliability other than it's worked great for me. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but I can say that I've been very happy.


----------

