# Tom Barr Non-Co2 method help



## symon_say (Mar 6, 2011)

I'm trying real plants now, and i think the non-co2 method of Tom Barr is perfect to start with.

My tank is a little overstocked, i just have small community fish, tetras, corys, livebearers, etc, i have bought a bunch of plants and plant then today, i get the seachem EQ that Mr. Barr recommends and i'm waiting for the macros to arrive this week.

- Should i do any adjustments to the doses Mr. Barr recommend given that i'm overstock??
- If yes what should it be??
- The fish stock i have is ok, to skip water changes??
- Any other thing i need to know will be really appreciated 

Tank is a 55 gallon, with 8 13W CFL in the stock reflector, with 2 filters aquaclear 70 and aqueon 55.

Fish are 11 Glo fish, 5 honey gourami, 6 bronze cory, 10 panda cory, 1 lyretail sworfish, 11 male guppy, 3 zebra nerite snails, 20 neon tetra.

The plants i purchase are: Rotala sp., Dwarf hygrophila, Marsilea minuta, Lindernia rotundifolia, peacock moss, tenellus micro red/pink, Java fern, HM (Pearl Weed), green lotus, sprite baby plants, penny wort, Ludwiga Glandulosa, rotala singapore, rotala macandra, ludwiga guinea, dwarf hairgrass, tonina belem, lindernia sp India, echinodorus vesuvius, polygonum praeterissum ruby, althenanthera reinickli, Sphaerocaryum malaccense, mini pelia, Corkscrew Vallisneria, anacharis and cabomba.


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

Hey Tom Barr, wanna chime in? I know you're around here some where... Here fishy fishy!

Since I have no experience in his method, I'll leave it up the the man himself to help ya!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

With a very large fish load the nitrates may be fine with just fish food, especially when you first plant the tank. As the plants get established they will get better at removing the nitrates. Monitor the nitrates. If you are currently doing lots of large water changes to keep the nitrate down then the plants will not instantly take over for that. You may not have to dose nitrates at first, and over time you may find that you need to add just a little bit to maintain a good level.


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

can someone link here to this method? i'd like to read up on it. thanks!


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## Hyzer (Mar 9, 2010)

Keep the light intensity low and you won't need to dose anything, especially with a heavy bio load. 

A lot of stems won't do well under low light, like most rotalas.

There is a sticky somewhere about good slow growing plant choices.


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## symon_say (Mar 6, 2011)

Hyzer said:


> Keep the light intensity low and you won't need to dose anything, especially with a heavy bio load.
> 
> A lot of stems won't do well under low light, like most rotalas.
> 
> There is a sticky somewhere about good slow growing plant choices.


This is why i'm going with Tom Barr Non-Co2 method, he claim that most of the plant can be grown with this method and i trust his knowledge.

What's the average nitrate i need to have in my tank?? Cause i test nitrates and i get 0 ppm, i think the anacharis and cabomba that has been in tank for almost a month take then all.

This is the link for the method:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2817-Non-CO2-methods


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

Hyzer said:


> Keep the light intensity low and you won't need to dose anything, especially with a heavy bio load.
> 
> A lot of stems won't do well under low light, like most rotalas.
> 
> There is a sticky somewhere about good slow growing plant choices.


Rotala not doing well in low light? These are actually one of the most successful plants I've had in low light (1-2 wpg) with no CO2. They grow like crazy. I have had several different types in my 15 gallon.


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## Hyzer (Mar 9, 2010)

symon_say said:


> This is why i'm going with Tom Barr Non-Co2 method, he claim that most of the plant can be grown with this method and i trust his knowledge.
> 
> What's the average nitrate i need to have in my tank?? Cause i test nitrates and i get 0 ppm, i think the anacharis and cabomba that has been in tank for almost a month take then all.
> 
> ...


Thanks for a link to the thread. He is definitely the man to trust. Perhaps most of our failures with certain plants under low light intensity stem from neglecting to maintain stable water parameters, as he suggests. I will say that I enjoy low tech tanks which only require topping off every couple weeks. 

I've read that keeping KNO3 levels around 10-20 ppm is best for planted tanks. I've also read that keeping levels lower than that, along with additional iron, helps you get more color from certain types of plants. There are other factors which come in to play, so it can be hard to say.



sampster5000 said:


> Rotala not doing well in low light? These are actually one of the most successful plants I've had in low light (1-2 wpg) with no CO2. They grow like crazy. I have had several different types in my 15 gallon.


Glad you had success. Maybe I was a bit hasty in singling out Rotala. Do you use any other carbon supplements? WPG doesn't tell us much unless you also include the type of bulb, reflectors, and distance from the tank.

BTW, that is a great looking shrimp you have as your avatar.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

I am so glad he changed the color of that forum!:biggrin:


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## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks! Its a shame all of my blue tigers ended up in the filter! Even when the intake was covered with an aquaclear sponge >_< I like your betta as well. I have a mostly white and red halfmoon betta in my 10 gallon moss set up. I need to upload some pics!

That was with a single fluorescent 15W T8 6500K bulb over my 10 gallon. The first plants I had were Rotala rotundifolia and R. indica. They did great! In that tank I used all the Seachem products 3x a week. NPK, Excel, and Flourish. No Iron. Grew quite quickly, even in that lighting. I love Rotalas  Now strangely the Water Sprite I also had in the tank did awful and was always brown. The only other plant was moneywort and it did decently okay but grew very slow.

My current 15 gallon is 2.4 wpg (2x18W T5HO) with DIY CO2 and tweaked EI dosing. The rotala grows like mad in there. Constant trimming is NOT fun. This is why I'm changing this to a grow out tank for moss and moving my high light to a 5.5 gallon with HC, hairgrass, and stauro


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I try and maintain nitrates around 5-10 ppm in my low tech tanks, personally.

You CAN maintain as high as 20ppm, but there's really no need if the lighting is kept low.

Check out the sticky at the top of this forum for plant suggestions. 

Stem plants are the biggest challenge to keep healthy in low light/low tech tanks unless you do dose the water column. I don't dose my water column at all, and so am rather limited in my stem options. Bacopas, Hydrocoytle leucocephla, Hygrophilas, and Rotala rotundifolia are the stems that have done best for me.


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## symon_say (Mar 6, 2011)

I have start dosing with Mr. Barr recommendations now is time to wait an see. Hope this plants do fine. Does Co2 help then rot faster and better?? Cause if so i can build a DIY co2 system for a few weeks and after they're establish take the co2 out and keep with the method, cause i don't want any of the plants to die because of the travel and setting in the new tank.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Typically the lower tech non CO2 tanks run 5ppm or less............
N is typically the limiting nutrient in most.


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