# Soil/Dirt Substrate in the Long Term Question



## Miki117 (Aug 29, 2014)

Hi! I'm new but have been lurking here and other forums as well to manage my nano 2.5G tank. I'm about to move to a 15G-20G(high) setup with a soil/dirt topped with sand/pfs substrate via Walstad's dry start method, however I read somewhere that dirt/soil gets messy in the long run, and haven't found a solid answer about it ever since.

I do plan on carpeting my tank, but do the dirt/soil substrate topped with sand get messy as it ages? I don't plan on redesigning my tank or move plants though.


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## Miki117 (Aug 29, 2014)

*depleted nutrients/minerals*

I might go with aquasoil, eco-complete or fluorite if this still gets no answer.. 

Just a follow up question, what should be done when the substrate is depleted of its nutrients/minerals?


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Each time you dig up something you get some mixing of the 2 materials. Once you are done with the replanting, tamp down the soil just a bit (don't compact it, just sort of settle it back down) and top off with a bit more sand. 

Growing a ground cover will knit the soil in place so there is not much that can disturb it (corys, small loaches, shrimp, MTS do minor if any damage)


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## Miki117 (Aug 29, 2014)

so basically without digging up and redecorating or planting, I'm basically set without the worry of the soil/dirt ruining the tank? XD


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## Kareen (Apr 6, 2013)

I have a 125 MTS with sand cap and love it if you need to move your plants around just pull them up very slowly my fish are heather I have a tank with eco-complete and I can say that my plants don't grow as good with out the add of root tabs so I will be takeing out the eco-complete and useing MTS in this tank as well dirt is the way to go.


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## Miki117 (Aug 29, 2014)

Thanks for the replies! I wont be moving my plants though. I went out yesterday and found this cheap Gro-Quik orgranic compost. I tried to search if this was good, or in general, if organic compost is okay for the aquarium but I only got mixed answers.

I found a similar thread here, but someone said that the TS should never use compost as it will make the aquarium water foul and make the fishes want to escape it. Since I'm planning on turning it to a moderately planted tank will it still be foul and bad?

Here's the thread I was talking about. Also got a picture of the compost, which is the same as the one I bought.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=364745&highlight=gro+quik


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

This is a sort of long, complex answer. I cannot analyze all the soils possible to add to aquariums. It is up to you to learn all you can about the materials available to you, and what each component will do when you put it under water. 

There are several different components in soil. It does not matter if the soil is garden soil or aquarium soil, dug up out of the garden or sold in a bag. The same words describe the same stuff in each of these conditions. 
The _results_ may vary.

Soil is made of 2 basic materials.
The mineral fraction. 
The organic fraction. 
Beyond these we can talk about the chemical fraction. 

The mineral part of soil is rock that has been worn away until it is the size of sand or smaller. These sizes are called:
Sand (feels gritty)
Silt (feels fairly smooth)
Clay (feels very smooth)

The organic matter can similarly be divided by size:
Coarse enough to still identify it (leaf, stick...)
Still particles, but too small to identify (most home made compost is this size- little chunks perhaps 1/8" to 1/2" or a couple of mm to a centimeter or so.)
Humus (a very fine organic matter that does not decompose much more)

The chemical fraction is very small amounts, and might be described as:
Helpful (fertilizers, as long as there is not too much)
Neutral (does not help, does not hurt)
Dangerous (toxic to fish or plants)

Unfortunately these words are misused on packages to try to sell you something that you have no idea what it really is.
Some trigger words that suggest the manufacturer is trying to sell you something:
'Top Soil' does not really mean anything. When houses are being build the builder may grade the site, and scoop off the top several inches to a couple of feet of soil. Then sell this as 'Top Soil'. No standards as to sand, silt or clay content. No standard as to organic matter. Might be 'weed free'. 
'Organic' has so many meanings it is wide open to mean anything the manufacturer wants it to mean. I am using it in the strict chemical sense of 'material that was once alive. That is, decomposing plant material or manures from herbivores.' No way of knowing if that is what the manufacturer means. 
'Natural' has the same problems as the word organic. A rock is natural, right? What if the rock is broken by an earth quake. Is it still natural? What if it is broken by a tractor? What if it is ground up and added to a bag of potting soil as a fertilizer? Is it organic? Not by the chemical definition. Is it natural? Who is to say? Is it safe in the aquarium? Probably is, as long as there is not too much of it. 
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As far as aquariums go:

Sand, silt and clay provide a bulk that the roots can cling to. 
*Clay can hold nutrients, but does not come with nutrients already added. 
If the sand, silt or clay come from limestone or related minerals then these can dissolve in the water, adding minerals to the water, and may raise the pH. 

Organic matter decomposes, adding organic acids to the water, and may add some fertilizers. Very fine organic matter (*humus) will not decompose, but can act as a holder for fertilizers. Organic matter is usually plant based materials, perhaps saw dust, or manures of herbivores (cattle, chicken, horse are common, sometimes with the bedding materials). Rarely manures of other animals are used: Bat guano, worm castings, rabbit manure. 

*Clay and humus can have good cationic exchange capacity. This means they can hold onto certain fertilizers in a way that plants can get them. Having a certain amount of CEC materials in the aquarium or in the garden is good. 

Chemicals: 
These might be in the garden soil from many years ago, in which case they might slowly be leaching their way down through the soil. Or they might be fresh, added in the last few days to a year ago. How fast they move through the soil depends on the chemicals. I would prefer to start with soil (bagged or dug up from the garden) with the least amount of chemicals that I can find. A bagged product should not list fertilizers as added ingredients. Garden soil should not have had weed killers or other pesticides applied recently, and test pretty bad as far as fertilizer goes. Too rich a soil, entering the aquarium water, might give up all the fertilizers to the water pretty fast, making the tank toxic to the fish and perhaps the plants. A soil that is lacking in fertilizers is not a problem. I can add the things I want to. 
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So, now that you know something about soil chemistry, lets see what you have in the garden, or in the bag. There are a lot of tests you can do that may help you figure out what you have. Here are some of the simplest:

First test: 
Look at the garden. Are plants growing pretty well, but not growing so fast all the new growth is really tender and delicate? This is good. Too lush growth suggests the soil is high in fertilizer. No growth at all, or weak, distorted growth suggests chemical toxicity or other problem. 
Smell the soil. Healthy soil smells good. 'Earthy' is a common word in English for how good garden soil, or good aquarium soil should smell. Not foul. Not strong manure or ammonia smell. 

Hold a handful of damp to fairly wet soil. Rub it between your fingers. Roll it into a ball. Roll it between your hands like a child playing with clay and making a worm. 
Does it feel gritty? Does the ball or the worm fall apart, not grow? High in sand. 
Does it feel only slightly gritty? Does the ball take shape, but crack or fall apart before it gets very big? Will the worm grow enough to reach from one side of your hand to the other? Does it hold together only as long as it stays in your hand? High in silt. 
Does it feel smooth? Does the ball make a nice round shape, and is pretty large? No cracks? Will the worm keep growing and growing, hanging over the side of your hand for a while before breaking off? High in clay. 

Next test:
Put some soil in a jar of water and shake it. 
Are there a lot of floaters? High in organic matter. 

What this means for an aquarium:
People have grown aquatic plants in all sorts of soils, including soils high in manure and fertilizers. This is not usually very good for the fish, though. 
Best aquarium soils might be mineral (sand/silt/clay) with just a little organic matter, or can be more organic matter. 

Soils high in organic matter will usually make the water acidic, and can stain it brown to yellow with organic acids, including tannic acids. 
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Products you buy. 
Manufacturers will make any claims they want, and call their product anything they want. It does not matter what is on the outside of the package, it matters what is on the inside. 
An honest company will tell you what is in the package. What raw materials went into the package, how they were treated, and what this means for fertilizer levels. Never mind the hype on the front of the package. Read the fine print. 
If there is a torn bag in the store, take a handful of the material and see what it looks like. Good aquarium material may be high in organic matter, but it will be pretty fine, no coarse chunks. If it has just a little bit of coarser material you can net it out when you fill the tank (the coarse material will float). If it is more mineral sort of material it should be a blend of sand, silt and clay, with not much clay. It may act like sand or silt when you handle it like the above tests.


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## Miki117 (Aug 29, 2014)

Really appreciate that!  Now I've got good tests to see if the soil/compost is good.

I just opened the bag I bought and unfortunately, it is way far from what you can call usable in aquariums. It is like what you can see in the picture of the thread I linked in a while ago. I checked it myself and found a lot of crushed bark or wood with some kind of dead leaves and balls which I assume is poop. Well, back to finding some cheap soil. 

Anyway, a local LFS is actually selling some kind of black sand, which they call "soil", but still looks like sand to me despite some small rocks 
and stuff. So I was thinking, how would sand + root tabs fare compared to a soil+sand/gravel substrate on live plants??


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

I have a dirted tank. My advise is to don't uproot plants, and to be careful when you plant your plants.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Great write up Diana. That post alone should be a sticky and required reading for anyone considering a dirt tank.

One thing about compost. It is pretty low in NPK. And it's pretty inconsistent. But it's more than the NPK with compost. A lot more. It frees a clay and binds a sand. It's almost this esoteric material. Elusive quality but highly valuable for soil enrichment. 

I use top soil from the BBS. Same brand different amounts of sand is what I first noticed.

It is important to shake the jar when testing. You need to break that meniscus that surrounds many grains of soil/sand.


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