# Eriocaulon ratnagiricum - Very small, rare and extremely beautiful erio



## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Well, Each and every plant in Eriocaulaceae family is like a gem but this one is slightly special than others.
Endemic to a very small region in southwestern India, Eriocaulon ratnagiricum got its name because of the city near which its found- Ratnagiri.
Some Russian hobbyists are claiming to have a species which they call E. ratonagiriuni (which is a totally wrong name at the first place). The plant that they have grows pretty big and I think its E. sulawesi.

A Japanese friend told me that someone in Japan is trying to propagate erios by seeds. And then, I HAD to get these. 
Finally got the seeds:









That's a 0.5mm pencil lead for size comparison.


















I planted them and kept them at 5 different locations. One was in an emmersed high humidity container, one was in my tank, one was outside in little damp soild, one was outside in garden in sunlight. 

One pot out of these 5 had plants in next 1 month. Guess which one was that?

Of course the one which was in my tank :icon_cool
Haha.. but seriously somehow all others didn't germinate. So I had 6 plants- 









And then I dismantled my tank and shifted this small container to an emmersed high humidity container. It has been doing great since. 
This plant gets just 2- 2.5 centimeter big. The leaves are 0.5-1 X 0.2 cm in size.
Somehow one of the 6 plants went missing in my tank because of the flow or something. So I have 5 of them now. 
Here are some pics-

At exactly one month after germination-



















At 45 days after the germination-
































































Then a friend who lives near this place in India, decided to go there and check this plant himself. What's the first thing he found?
A baby cobra. LOL









And then these-









I am still not sure if its the same species or not. Time will tell. 
I hope you enjoyed seeing a new plant 

And yeah, just in case, if someone wants to have a look at the research paper for this species, it can be found here


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

thats tight, i doubt its E. Sulawesi though...


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## AVN (Oct 3, 2012)

Amazing. I would love to try Erio seeds. :3


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

StrungOut said:


> thats tight, i doubt its E. Sulawesi though...


Do you have any pics of sulawesi? Or have you kept one?
I would love to compare them side by side.
The person who sent me these was damn sure that these are the true E ratnagiricum seeds.
I will consider that true unless I see the pics for it to be something else.


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

Was I the only one who was like: "Aw what cute little plants. How beautiful. OMG it's a snake!"? Either way, I would've left the cobra where it was. Cool plants


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

sumer said:


> Do you have any pics of sulawesi? Or have you kept one?
> I would love to compare them side by side.
> The person who sent me these was damn sure that these are the true E ratnagiricus seeds.
> I will consider that true unless I see the pics for it to be something else.


I don't have any pics sorry, but a scape member has eriocaulon sulawesi and it grows tiny. If you meant Eriocaulaceae sulawesi, then my bad


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

That plant looks way better than eriocaulon sulawesi (that I've seen) anyways, erio sulawesi grows slow and dinky and tiny. You scored big, and I would love to have that plant when you have for sale


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## boxboy (Jun 1, 2013)

StrungOut said:


> That plant looks way better than eriocaulon sulawesi (that I've seen) anyways, erio sulawesi grows slow and dinky and tiny. You scored big, and I would love to have that plant when you have for sale


+1... Where excatly did you get the seeds? I would live to try and grow some. Would be amazing in a tank strickly for them..


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

StrungOut said:


> That plant looks way better than eriocaulon sulawesi (that I've seen) anyways, erio sulawesi grows slow and dinky and tiny. You scored big, and I would love to have that plant when you have for sale


Yeah I'd love to see some pics to compare them both.
Just because this is growing slow and tiny like sulawesi isn't enough to believe that this is sulawesi IMO.
Another guy on another forum said this looks like parkeri. 
Does it look like aquaticum to someone? LOL


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

pweifan said:


> Was I the only one who was like: "Aw what cute little plants. How beautiful. OMG it's a snake!"? Either way, I would've left the cobra where it was. Cool plants


Hahaha.. I am sorry for that picture. My friend was going on another hike the very next morning in deep jungle so he took it there and released it. The area where it was found was very near to a small village. Someone would have killed him there.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

sorry for the crap pics, heres two old photos of erio sulawesi when i had the plant, who knows maybe this one was mis identified


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

very cool Sumer!

I love smaller erio!

Now lets see a flower!


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

h4n said:


> very cool Sumer!
> 
> I love smaller erio!
> 
> Now lets see a flower!


Haha.. I hope so too


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## Takeshi (Aug 24, 2013)

Wow! That's really cool was it a pain in the butt gettting the seeds? How much did you have to pay? Good luck growing those plants!


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Takeshi said:


> Wow! That's really cool was it a pain in the butt gettting the seeds? How much did you have to pay? Good luck growing those plants!


Lets just not talk about the money part 
I am enjoying the plants and its well worth the money I spent on them


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## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

sumer said:


> Hahaha.. I am sorry for that picture. My friend was going on another hike the very next morning in deep jungle so he took it there and released it. The area where it was found was very near to a small village. Someone would have killed him there.


I'm glad he moved him to a safer area, both for the snake and the locals.


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## sjb1987 (Feb 23, 2012)

Those are coming along very nicely sumer... excellent job.... keep me updated on your excursion...ill be ready to see of your fantastic pictures


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## II Knucklez II (Oct 31, 2011)

awesome! any up date pics?


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## Art by Stef* (Jan 27, 2013)

Very well recorded and awesome pics (as usual sumer).
The plant(s) looks like they are from a fairy land.

When I seen the snake, I was like, how cute! 
But then again, I'm partial to cobras 

-Stef*


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## Ebi (Jun 29, 2011)

Very nice!


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Whats the progress?


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Here's the much awaited update:
So after 6 months or so, all of them have flower buds on them 
Now only if I'd be able to extract the seeds.
Any suggestions for doing that?

Photos:


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Those are toooo cool


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## saddletramp (May 19, 2012)

Are they growing in Amazonia? What is the water chemistry? Are they submerged or emersed?
Fantastic photos and well documented!
Bill


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

saddletramp said:


> Are they growing in Amazonia? What is the water chemistry? Are they submerged or emersed?
> Fantastic photos and well documented!
> Bill


Hey Bill,
Yes they are in amazonia. 
So this is how it started: I planted the seeds in several small containers. I put them at several different places. First one went in my tank, second in an emmersed salad box and one in sunlight.
The one which went in the tank had plantlets in a month. Others never showed any signs of germination.
Then after 2 months I had to dismantle my tank. So I took out this small container and placed it in my salad box emmersed setup. I keep filling the erio container with 5 pH water every month or so.









It is thriving there since then. Spirogyra has covered the substrate layer.
It does seem like a small plant but their root structure is super big.









Now its about extracting the seeds. I tried reading on the net but couldn't find anything significant. I was tried to do the same thing with the parkeri flower and this is how it looks:









Anyone from the Botanical background? ANy help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Sumer.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

Big question, when u gonna sell? Just in case something were to happen


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

StrungOut said:


> Big question, when u gonna sell? Just in case something were to happen


You mean seeds? Whenever I will have them..
The plants may die after they have flowered or they might not. They might go dormant maybe. I dont know whats gonna happen to them.
If I will have seeds, I will be glad to share it with you all.


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## metageologist (Jan 10, 2008)

I think I would try and let one of the plants go through all of the flowering stages. If the stalk starts to die pluck it and alow the flower to dry in the air. That's all I can think of its how I have have harvested seeds in the past.

Have a gniess day. -Scott


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

metageologist said:


> I think I would try and let one of the plants go through all of the flowering stages. If the stalk starts to die pluck it and alow the flower to dry in the air. That's all I can think of its how I have have harvested seeds in the past.
> 
> Have a gniess day. -Scott


Hmmm.. This sounds like an idea. Thanks


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## metageologist (Jan 10, 2008)

sumer said:


> Hmmm.. This sounds like an idea. Thanks


No problem I'm no expert just a gardener

Have a gniess day. -Scott


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## rajah_22 (Dec 12, 2013)

Can you contact the person who sold the seeds and find out exactly how they were harvested?


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

rajah_22 said:


> Can you contact the person who sold the seeds and find out exactly how they were harvested?


I tried but no response :/
Maybe dont wanna reveal the secrets?


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

sumer said:


> You mean seeds? Whenever I will have them..
> The plants may die after they have flowered or they might not. They might go dormant maybe. I dont know whats gonna happen to them.
> If I will have seeds, I will be glad to share it with you all.


I meant sell off a plant or two to someone who can grow em in case they were to die to keep the species in the USA. Does this erio not split?


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## luigi636 (Dec 28, 2012)

in order for plants to set seed they need to they need to be pollinated by another in order to fertilise the flower.. If the seeds you got are from the same plant, this may not be possible as plants generally have defensive mechanisms against inbreeding.

So you may only be able to reproduce the plant via vegetative means. i.e. When val sends a runner and sprouts a "new" plant, which is essentially a clone of the original.

Best to try and figure out how you can pollinate it before you go pulling the flower apart to minimize loss.

Maybe try sourcing seeds or plants from 2 or 3 different places (hard, I know, with such a rare plant, but where there's a will there's a way) and have them growing nearby and hope for the best?

Best of luck mate


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## Jalopy (Aug 11, 2013)

Grab a paint brush and brush each of the flower? Might as well give it a shot.


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

StrungOut said:


> I meant sell off a plant or two to someone who can grow em in case they were to die to keep the species in the USA. Does this erio not split?


Who can grow them? I thought I was. LOL.
I don't have any problem in sharing them. Its just that they are flowering and I don't think a plant that small will be able to put in enough energy to adapt to a new place if replanted. Flowers suck up all their energy.
Not all erios split. After keeping around 12-13 species, I have experienced that the erios with flat leaves (parkeri/ aquaticum), don't have a "heart" and split. The erios that have a "heart" needs to be cut through the heart. Now this little one.. I dont know.
Some erios also produce runners but I doubt on this one. 



luigi636 said:


> in order for plants to set seed they need to they need to be pollinated by another in order to fertilise the flower.. If the seeds you got are from the same plant, this may not be possible as plants generally have defensive mechanisms against inbreeding.
> 
> So you may only be able to reproduce the plant via vegetative means. i.e. When val sends a runner and sprouts a "new" plant, which is essentially a clone of the original.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right. Pollination needs to take place. You may be right about the inbreeding concept but I am not too sure on that. 
I am glad that they all are flowering at the same time. There would be a lot of pollen to fertilize each other B)
Hoping for the best 





Jalopy said:


> Grab a paint brush and brush each of the flower? Might as well give it a shot.


Hahaha.. That's another nice idea. It wont hurt I guess. The flower buds are taking so long to grow and open up. Once they are open. I will do this.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

if u decide to sell it then let me know


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

sumer said:


> Some erios also produce runners but I doubt on this one.


Really?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Do you have any photo's of the flowers? You might be able to artificially pollenate them with a q-tip that is stripped to a fine thread off the stick.

That being said, I don't know the anatomy of this plants flower. Some flowers are hermaphrodites and others require a male and female flower to pollenate. Some close up shots of each flower in bloom would help me determine this for you.


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Archerofthemoon said:


> Do you have any photo's of the flowers? You might be able to artificially pollenate them with a q-tip that is stripped to a fine thread off the stick.
> 
> That being said, I don't know the anatomy of this plants flower. Some flowers are hermaphrodites and others require a male and female flower to pollenate. Some close up shots of each flower in bloom would help me determine this for you.


Done deal. I will put on some extension tubes and will take some more closeup shots today.


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

JoraaÑ said:


> Really?


Third photo from top:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106313


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Someone translate this please: 
*Reproductive type, pollination. Unisexual flowers present. Plants monoecious (usually), or dioecious (rarely). Female flowers without staminodes. Gynoecium of male flowers pistillodial to vestigial. Floral nectaries present (Eriocaulon), or absent (the rest). Nectar secretion in Eriocaulon, from the perianth (from the mouth or the inside of the perigone tube). Pollination anemophilous, or entomophilous.*


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Looks like the flowers are generally hermaphrodites, which means they don't have male/female flowers. The wording is a little confusing since it says "monoecious (usually), or dioecious (rarely)" This seems like some broad information regarding Erio's since they can have both male and female flowers and some are hermaphroditic.

Photos of the specific flowers would be beneficial. If you have or know someone who is good with macro photography this is where it will pay off.


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Archerofthemoon said:


> If you have or know someone who is good with macro photography this is where it will pay off.


:icon_roll 
I will do that this weekend for sure.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Any updates?


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Very cool plant, thanks for sharing.


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Archerofthemoon said:


> Any updates?


The flowers haven't opened yet. They are getting taller day bay day, mm by mm.


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## PhilipS (Jan 9, 2014)

Any child plants available?


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## catfishbi (Jun 10, 2008)

my suggestion is to try this on one erio. take all the flower out from that erio, of course it will continue to put out flowers so just keep pull the flower out, but be careful don't pull the root out since the plant are small. at one point plants will give up putting flowers and split itself. I have done this with many flower type erios so good luck


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

catfishbi said:


> my suggestion is to try this on one erio. take all the flower out from that erio, of course it will continue to put out flowers so just keep pull the flower out, but be careful don't pull the root out since the plant are small. at one point plants will give up putting flowers and split itself. I have done this with many flower type erios so good luck


What timing mate. I was just about to send you a message. Thanks for the advice. I will do this with one of the plants for sure. Or maybe with 2 of the plants? As I have 5 which are flowering.
Yesterday when I was showing this to someone from China on skype, I noticed that I have 2 more plants which are in the salad box. I have no clue how did they get there. They are in good condition but aren't flowering yet. Maybe because they were submerged all the time?


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

I just checked the photo of salad box on Page 2. You can see the plants I am talking about on the left hand side of the samll container. This means they have been there since always?


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## AirstoND (Jun 17, 2011)

Dude! U have a cobra in a water bottle!


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## catfishbi (Jun 10, 2008)

the above method only apply for submersed erios, I never have embers erio so I don't know if they apply or not


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## corlis (Apr 8, 2010)

I have grown many Erio spp. Firstly each flower head contains both male and female flower parts. Flower heads are self pollinating. Let flower head mature. It will go from green to either white, black or brown depending on spp. To collect seed squash flower head in a small container and the mature golden seed will fall out of flower. Also try cutting flower apart with a scalpel to express seed. I get my seed using a microscope because of the small flower size which makes it easier to see if seed are mature


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

i love this thread. ill be trying my hand at some seeds this time in two weeks. im letting my parkeri flower right now to extract seeds from that. i also read most erio flowers have male and female parts like terestial plants do. self pollination. some aponos do the same thing. the lasg flowering apono i had that flowered i did nothing and still had about 20 baby plants off the flower.

what media are you using just amazonia??


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## gnikwoc (Jan 9, 2014)

Yeah I've been following this thread for a while - keep up with those updates  

To me the difference between E Sulawesi and E. Rat pictures (limited to what I've found on forums) seem to be a certain more dense spikyness with E Rat. So, more progress piks please!


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Subtletanks91 said:


> i love this thread. ill be trying my hand at some seeds this time in two weeks. im letting my parkeri flower right now to extract seeds from that. i also read most erio flowers have male and female parts like terestial plants do. self pollination. some aponos do the same thing. the lasg flowering apono i had that flowered i did nothing and still had about 20 baby plants off the flower.
> 
> what media are you using just amazonia??


If I remember correctly, I added some coc peat in there too.



gnikwoc said:


> Yeah I've been following this thread for a while - keep up with those updates
> 
> To me the difference between E Sulawesi and E. Rat pictures (limited to what I've found on forums) seem to be a certain more dense spikyness with E Rat. So, more progress piks please!


Here it is... 










As catfishbi suggested, I have been removing flowers from 2 erios out of the 5. On two of them, I have done the paint brush thing too.
One is left untouched.

Time will tell if they are self pollinating or they split if the flowers are plucked out or they need pollination of some kind.
This is the coming out as an interesting experiment.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

I see right 1 is ready to split.


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## gnikwoc (Jan 9, 2014)

JoraaÑ said:


> I see right 1 is ready to split.


How do you tell this?


And looking forward to this becoming a more common Erio!

Last favour, can you put something in for perspective on size nowadays?


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

gnikwoc said:


> How do you tell this?
> 
> 
> And looking forward to this becoming a more common Erio!
> ...


He can tell because you can see that it almost looks like two set of spike (two directions) meaning two plants starting to happen.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

gnikwoc said:


> How do you tell this?
> 
> And looking forward to this becoming a more common Erio!
> 
> Last favour, can you put something in for perspective on size nowadays?


Experience my friend!


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Update time:

As Joraan suggested, I did look for any signs of them dividing but could not dare to pull them out and see like I used to do with parkeri. Haha..

Some photos to show you the size of flowers and new updates:


















A close up for y'all to determine if they are actually dividing or not. This is the plant that I have been removing the flowers from:









Flowers that I have removed in the past month:


















The growth is very slow in the flowers. Last week I brushed 2 flowers together. Some pollen fell on the bottom. In the wild they have wind blowing, insects/ bees hovering and helping in the pollen exchange. Here I did it myself. I will do it a few more times in the coming weeks.

Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Any update on this Sumer? Really intrigued! How did they take to the pollination?
Joshua


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

Most erio are self pollinating


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

update plz! this my new favorite erio, it keeps eluding me though


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Hello guys. Sorry for the gap in between updates. I should have some good news and some good pictures by this weekend


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Okay, here's the much awaited update on these.
The plants and the flowers were drying up. At this point of time, they are totally dried up I suppose (like erios do after flowering). 
I took out the flowers and have put them in the sun to dry out a bit more. Plants are intact at the same place. They will come back to life in the next few months.
I will try to extract seeds from the flowers sometime this week.

The other two submerged plants are doing great. They haven't flowered yet and are not growing bigger than the emersed ones. This tells that they would do great in a tank. 

The following photos were taken 3-4 weeks ago when the flowers were drying up but the plants were green.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

dont know how i missed this post, those erios are awesome!!!


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## PhilipS (Jan 9, 2014)

sumer said:


> I will try to extract seeds from the flowers sometime this week.


Great News!


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Lookin good sumer! Hopefully you get some seeds out of it


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## limz_777 (Jun 29, 2005)

was that a black spitter ?


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

limz_777 said:


> was that a black spitter ?


A cobra


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## PhilipS (Jan 9, 2014)

Did those seeds germinate ok?


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

webskipper said:


> Did those seeds germinate ok?


 
would also love an update on this!


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## Harry Hans (Oct 19, 2018)

I'm about to try germinate some of these same seeds from the same seller that Sumer got his from


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