# 65 gallon low tech FL inspired



## migueli (Sep 25, 2007)

very nice:thumbsup:


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## gtriever (Mar 12, 2009)

:thumbsup:


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## Canoe2Can (Oct 31, 2004)

Nice optical lines.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

I like the open space and balance with the angel


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks for the comments!


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## Katydid (Apr 2, 2009)

beautiful, and nice choice of fish to compliment the planting! lots of drama there.


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## organic sideburns (Dec 22, 2005)

i love this tank, the angel fits perfectly and i love the sand etc. more pics??


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## chadly (May 17, 2005)

that looks cool! It should fill in beautifully!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks, everyone! 

Chadly, this tank is filling in so slowly it's driving me nuts, this is only my second low tech tank, not what I'm used to, lol. But it's nice to have a tank to relax with, for once.

Organic sideburns, do you want angles and close ups, or progress shots? Because the tank pretty much looks the same now as it did in post 1, that was 3 days after rescaping. Going very slooowww. For now I have this shot from before the final scape, when I was acclimating and propagating, sorting out placement, and fighting off GDA...

2/09 (pre-scape) http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5548/65lowtechstep1.jpg


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## organic sideburns (Dec 22, 2005)

awesome! how did u place the wood in there? just shove in into the substrate? and is that plant in the left back of the tank Vallisneria nana? that plant i thought needed high tech. id love it in my 46 gal low tech tho!


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Very nice!

I see you moved the java... I thought it looked more artistic with that spot empty.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yassmeenam, that's an old shot, the current scape is in post one. The java rock was kept on the right until the other plants settled in. I might have to remove that image to avoid confusion. Thanks for the compliment. 

Organic sideburns, the sub is about 4" deep in the middle so the sticks just held on their own after shoving them in, they did eventually sag a bit, though. I stuck them like that to keep them off the plants till they were settled. Was experimenting a bit too, I guess, not natural enough for what I wanted to create here. 

Yes, that's V. nana. As far as I know, any Val will grow in low tech. The above specs have been in place for over two months now and it's still spreading runners, but not nearly as fast as with CO2/ high light. It does tend to propagate more BBA on the upper blade now (famous Val problem), but my SAE takes care of that.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

I live in Florida. If you want Floridian fish, get some ghost shrimp and some guppies or platys. Those fish live in Florida. I've seen them here in the wild. Some plants I see in ponds here are salvinia, hornwort, pheonix moss, and anacharis.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

This isn't meant to be a Florida biotope. Just "inspired by FL" as in both aquatic _and_ terrestrial environments, probably more of the latter. A scaled down interpretation similar to what the nature aquarium guys are doing. 

If I were to do a FL biotope, it would be an introduced/ invasive tank, as well as local, minimal planted species. There would be lots of guppies and ghosties... to feed the group of Belonesox. :red_mouth That's what I'm temped to do with my 110, not sure yet, I think the tall tank would be better suited for "tall" fish.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Some updated shots from a few days ago. The Potamogeton pectinatus added to the right has since been mowed down to nubs by my SAE.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

really nice. that is great use of negative space on the right. sometimes the open areas in aquariums have a way of accentuating the rear pane of glass as much as anything else, but this is successful. your fish selection might have a lot do to with this.

i had missed before that this is a 65--nice and big. it must make an impression.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

You say the exact opposite of my wife, she doesn't like the negative space, says it's too empty. She's always a good critic no matter what I do, and doesn't understand the concept of filling plants in. Maybe she wants me to fill it with upward branches again, I just wanted to do something different for a change, the new 110 will have plenty of upward branches.

It's a pretty good size tank, we have it right in the "great room" for the entire house to see. It really looks a lot better in person than I can ever catch in pictures. All the little imperfections in the glass pop out, color and dimension is lost. Size doesn't come across either, I keep meaning to get my wife to take some pruning shots so you can see my whole arm stuck in the tank. Heh, the 110 is almost twice as big and 30" tall. Already got the extra long pruning tool for that one.


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## finfan (Jun 16, 2008)

really nice tank, like the scape, the natural look and plant combo

really nice angel and tetras

on a diff. note - why not give the angel a friend to hang out with?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks!


finfan said:


> on a diff. note - why not give the angel a friend to hang out with?


Because he's a big mean TERROR and I would never want to put another fish or him, or myself through that ordeal. 

I original bought a pair, they were nickel sized juvies and I didn't really know anything about Angels at the time. It didn't take long for them to start competing heavily and sometimes it was a tad nasty, this was at about silver dollar size. They may very well have paired up eventually, given the sex matched up by chance, but they were certainly never 'buddies' in the tank. I ended up trading one back in for some bottom feeders, partly due to aggression and partly tank size since I jumped into the situation with little thought. He's been stomping around as a loner ever since, I don't think he cares or knows the difference either way, he's just a fish. I give him food and water and that seems to be enough.

Knowing what I do about them now, I would never keep more than one Angelfish unless they are a mated pair or the tank size is suitable for a school.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

This was right after 'the breakup', you tell me if he looks lonely... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuM5gml-694


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## suebe333 (Feb 17, 2009)

NIce , I havent kept angels in years


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## suebe333 (Feb 17, 2009)

jaidexl said:


> This was right after 'the breakup', you tell me if he looks lonely... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuM5gml-694


 thats hilarious


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That's sad lol. I bet he was looking at his reflection.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Well, I lost all my corydoras one at a time. The C. trilineatus have been falling in numbers for a year, from 10 to none, so slowly I thought maybe they were a weaker species or I wasn't feeding them enough. Lately started to think they were passing around some bacterial or parasitic infection, especially after also losing the albino that has been strong for years, two days after the last trilineatus left the building. He was one of my favorite fish, about 5yrs owned, last survivor of a short lived group of Petco albinos. :frown: 

So, the tank now has 5 juvenile SAE along with my adult. I also added 6 Otoicinclus months ago, but seems I forgot to mention them, perhaps because I never see them. I'm only positive there are 4 left, anyway.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I've never had any luck with cories or otos either. I haven't even tried keeping them in over a year.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Otos I'm not so bad off with. I'd guess I'm a little luckier than most from what I read. They're notorious for dying in the first few weeks, but once they make it into the first month, they can last a while. I have a place that quarantines them for a long time before selling, so I think that helps. Still, I buy them in groups, expecting to lose some. 

I bet a lot of people think theirs have died but they just can't find them hiding. I have one in a 30gl that came out after 6 months, I was sure they were all dead for that long because I hadn't seen one for a month earlier. That fish is at least 4yrs old and I have never tried to supplement his diet, thinking he was dead, and the tank has had no algae for years. He was in the yin yang tank in my sig and what is now the Apisto tank. He survived undetectable through a re'scape, a residence change and everything else that has happened to that tank. Maybe there are still 3 in there but I never see them together, who knows. I know there are at least 4 still in this 65 because I saw them all on the glass a few nights ago.


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## finfan (Jun 16, 2008)

i had a group of 5 ottos that were with me for 6 months, the most resiliant, active and fun ottos i've ever had, but all of a sudden in a few days they all disappeared w/o a trace, and i know for sure they are not in the tank anymore 

on the other hand my 4 cories that i got more than a year ago are still around but i almost forget they are there because i never see them, but once in a while i will get a glimpse, they have survived many incidents with the tank

as far as angels, i know exactly what you mean, i have one mated pair in their 30 gallon with 3 cories and they do fine except the male will harass the female sometimes

the other one is in my community tank with everyone else by himself


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I have a little trouble with my photoperiod, being that it's on longer than the sun is up. Once the house gets dark and he sees his reflection, he starts to act aggressive, biting and flaring at himself. He even spooks himself and shoots across the tank like a flight reflex, this seems to be the real problem there, I hope he doesn't scare himself out of the tank or his own skin one day. I've since moved the photoperiod back an hour to only subject him to about an hour of this while leaving us some time to enjoy the tank in the evening. We make sure to turn the room lamps on to diffuse some of the reflection. Plant cover helps a lot but this particular scape obviously makes it impossible to hide the glass or block his reflection. The black background makes it worse.


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## NicoleRC (May 3, 2008)

I loooooooove this tank! Do you have a hard time keeping the two substrates separate and keeping the sand side looking clean? If it isn't as big of as a hassile as I think it has potential to be, I might do something similar in my 90g I'm setting up.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

NicoleRC said:


> I loooooooove this tank! Do you have a hard time keeping the two substrates separate and keeping the sand side looking clean? If it isn't as big of as a hassile as I think it has potential to be, I might do something similar in my 90g I'm setting up.


Thanks!

The two subs aren't that hard to manage, depends on your tank though. If you have a lot of bottom dwellers, then you'll get more mixing, isn't bad though and can be dealt with using a small tea strainer. I like to let them mix alittle anyway. In this tank's old scape, I was separating them with rocks, and the SMS was held at a higher level by the rocks to form a cliff. Some collapse happened between and over the rocks and that was a little more to deal with than just meeting the two subs together like I have here. The slope doesn't seem to have much of an effect (about 5" in the back left), just snails and cories moving it around over time. I also have the current cranking in the direction to push the SMS back to the left, SMS is lighter than sand so it seems to help, opposite flow would just assist a collapse in the slope and make the sand bed grow shorter by the day. That's important to keep in mind before you start your hardscape.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

God forbid I mention the elusive otos, now I found one dead this week. :icon_roll

I hope they're not passing something from the cories around.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

I like your tank. Your angel is very pretty. Too bad he can't be nice. 

I'm wondering if your tank will be able to handle all the SAE's once they are fully grown. They get pretty big. I had 3 in my 125g and two of them managed to keep one smaller. I think they may have bullied him. I always made sure to add algae wafers at night so they would get plenty to eat. They would never let any frilly plant grow. They'd gnaw it down to the stems.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks Tex Gal 

They're for a 110 sitting in the garage, we're in the middle of moving but I hope to have it fully set up by sometime next month. They're pretty much finished with the Potamogeton pectinatus I added and will probably go back to the Fissidens soon, I gotta find more of that pectinatus. :icon_eek: I keep a cucumber chunk, watermelon or zucchini etc in the tank once a week (few days at a time) for them and the otos. There's still a lot of algae growing in the tank from it's disaster ending as the 'flooded forest', too.

My problem now is it's taking so long to get the 110 set up, and the move date was unexpected and set far off. The tank should have been finished months ago, now different sparks are going off in my head on _how_ to set it up and I hope the SAEs don't pose a problem, they do hinder the options.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Oh yeah, I was worried the adult would bully the smaller ones, he's had anger issues in the past probably due to me sticking him alone species wise. But I haven't seen any aggression at all from him yet, he actually seems a little normal if that's possible. The smaller ones go up to him and do the little side dance and he seems to enjoy the social contact, but doesn't really hang out with them yet. He hasn't seen an other SAE since he was their size (1.5") 4 or 5 years ago. They eat together and everything's cool. I'll have to keep an eye on him, it all really comes down to food availability at feeding time with him, whether or not he has a spearing tantrum. My theory is more in the school, the better, so hopefully I won't have too much bullying, we'll see.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. My SAE's favorite food was cucumbers. I would put a couple circles in every 2 or 3 days. They would eat the middle first and then the outside.

I did really like them. They were so pretty. I just got tired of them eating any thin fragile leaved plant I put in the tank.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Well, she's in the new house, what a day. :icon_eek: Just waiting on the RO at this point.

I brought the Angelfish over in a bucket. Drained the tank to about 5 inches, loaded it into a pickup with the help of a friend and drove it 25 minutes down a bumpy highway. I guess for the fish it was like being stuck in a puddle on a stormy day. Everyone is fine though, one stick fell over. :icon_cry:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Nice work. :thumbsup:

I HATE moving. Have I mentioned I HATE moving?

Is the Apisto Terror going back into any of these tanks, or has he been rehomed? LOL I think it's hilarious he even started bullying Spike...


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yeah, that little monster's staying in the 30gl, the tetras are smart enough to stay at a distance, but hate to say it, he's faster than they are!


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Your tank is beautiful. How do you keep the sand clean? Or did you not reach that stage yet? I always find white sand eventually getting greenish from algae.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks!

My sand gets a little brown over time, I just stir it up, or in this tank I actually never put enough in to begin with, so I just add some more. In that last pic it's all blasted up from me pouring water back in, you can kind of see how brown it was near the rear. Especially after driving the tank around, the entire bottom level is pretty dusted up..


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

glad to hear that your move went well. the tank looks just like what i remember form before.

i have white sand in several tanks and also observe it slowly staining brown over time--what is that? is it some kind of algae? however, i have also found that there has been space for several new additions of sand. at some point i'll have to try to remove some and clean it again.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I think it's brown diatoms, supposedly they enjoy silicates in the sand and on glass. I think it helps that I don't fill the sand areas up past the bottom rim. I have an entire tank filled with 2.5" of sand and it gets pretty nasty with all the mulm buildup and bacterial activity going on underneath it.

I'm still waiting for about 10 more gallons of RO to finish this one off for the night. :icon_roll


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Bouncing back after the move, first cleaning since. Just pruned and replanted some of the Ludwigia stems and hope to have double mass there in comparison to the last clean FTS. Also moved the J. repens, which was next to the Ludwigia, forward to fill in the gaps under the driftwood. Can't see it yet, it takes time for things to fill in here, very tempted to start dosing CO2 again but resisting.

Check out the Hygro bomber that unexpectedly popped up, must have thought it was a piece of 'Roraima' when it was small. I'm probably going to leave it alone and propagate it for the 110gl I'm setting up.










Erio type 2 seems to be reacting badly to the Excel dosing I restarted this week. Just started turning more brown in the last 2 days. It's one of the fastest growing plants in the tank, but the lower sections are fickle like struggling star grass when it comes to discoloring. :icon_conf

Looks like 'Roraima' isn't going to last forever in these conditions, I was really hoping it would be a good low tech plant. Guess not in this tank. I have some kind of local Micranthemum plugged in to see how it works out as a foreground (prefer to stay "grassy", *currently looking for some Eleocharis Japan*), looks like it's turning into "2 leaved Amano pearl weed"...

Emergent 









Day 1 submersed









Day 3


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

The new view from my La-Z-Boy...


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

I really like the view from your throne.
The open tank is a nice change from jungles too. :thumbsup:


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

nice!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Very well done!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks guys!


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## Mr James (May 27, 2005)

In your picture on the first page I see a bit of what I have called "suface scum", maybe from my saltwater days. I have that too. Do I need to remove it?? My Ehiem canister filter has a surface extractor application, should I get it?? Or does it matter?? I will try to take a "good" picture of my tank and post it in a new question.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Hi Mr James. That's a protein film that is essentially the same thing as in a SW tank. You don't have to remove it, you get a lot of that with planted tanks. Particularly after big changes or re'scapes like in that first pic of mine. This tank still has it, longest I have have ever noticed, the TDS is still very low and all nitrogens are in check, so it's not really something that affects us in the real world other than looking ugly. My angelfish actually chomps at it, possibly eating it or just looking for food particles, lol, for a long time I thought he was gulping air until I figured it out, pretty funny how he cuts lines through the film then spits it around and out his gills.

Not sure if it may be more necessary to remove it on a SW tank, I honestly have never seen it on any of mine except in grungy little tanks meant for growing macroalgae. I know the SW protein skimmers do a whole lot more in terms of removing organics besides whats sitting on the surface, and really clean up the water as a whole. The Eheim one you mention for FW will however only clear off the surface and move the film into the filter, which will only take it out of sight and mind, but by all means won't hurt anything and will make the tank more pleasing to look at. I never bothered with one because I think they're uglier than the film, but if you have one and are up to using it, it won't hurt anything. I have read about folks laying paper towels across the surface to pull it off, cheaper than the extractor thingy but I have never had the guts to lay paper on my water.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey do you have any updated pictures?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

No, but I can get you one when lights come on in a couple hours. Not much change other than the hygro bomber growing larger in the middle. I'm debating on moving that to the back with the vals or leaving it alone and propagating it over to the 110gl that should be set up this month. Other updates include the Erio type 2, which has completely browned over and is now sprouting new green tips, will take a few months of pruning and replanting to get the nice green bush of it on the side again, I'm afraid to use any more Excel now since I believe it may have been the culprit. Also, my little Micranthemum experiment came undone and is floating now, which I haven't bothered to do anything with.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Beautiful tank. That angle looks so lonely though.


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## Mr James (May 27, 2005)

Thanks for the response!! I will leave it and keep my system the way it is.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Just a little update:

Neglected the tank while setting up a new one. Note that I replaced 'Roraima' with E. tenellus...











Did a slight cleanup and rescape this week. Pushed the java/rock to the right, gave Ludwigia a tight trim, and moved newly propagated Hygro to the back left...











I would say 'Roraima' and Juncus repens are better suited for a CO2 injected tank, or possibly another low tech tank that doesn't produce as much algae. These plants can easily become outperformed and choked by encrusting types of algae due to slow growth rate in low tech conditions.



.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

speedie408 said:


> Beautiful tank. That angle looks so lonely though.


Sometimes I think there is a gang of you out there conspiring to drive me mad. Eventually you'll convince me to introduce another angel to this tank so you all can watch the fight of the century.

The fish's brain is the size of a zit, and I try not to anthropomorphize.


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

Awww...I bet he'd like my tank! 

I'll trade you my 2 for him! lol :hihi:

Very nice tank!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks :smile:

That's the meanest fish I have ever owned next to an Apisto and Blue Gularis.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

jaidexl said:


> Thanks :smile:
> 
> That's the meanest fish I have ever owned *next to an Apisto* and Blue Gularis.


Hehehe

I think Spike had it coming to him with that Apisto. :hihi: Spike's the big tattooed Harley rider, but the Apisto was the little wiry Jackie Chan who kicked him into next week.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> Hehehe
> 
> I think Spike had it coming to him with that Apisto. :hihi: Spike's the big tattooed Harley rider, but the Apisto was the little wiry Jackie Chan who kicked him into next week.


LMAO! I watched both of those fish literally bite each other and the Apisto never backed down. Spike swam around pissed and flaring not knowing what to do with him. The day he bit Spike, a few pristellas and an SAE all in one feeding, he was rehomed, and killed a bunch of MTS in the process. :icon_roll

He's now living passively with the other tetras, easy feeding, less competition, and his own pile of wood.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Nice restraint, Jaide.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Nice restraint, Jaide.


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## paronaram (Jun 29, 2009)

What does SMS in "SMS + Eco Complete" means?

BTW, Awesome tank!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ Soil Master Select (i think)


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

paronaram said:


> What does SMS in "SMS + Eco Complete" means?
> 
> BTW, Awesome tank!


Oldpunk is correct. It's calcined clay similar to clay cat litter and oil absorbents.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Might as well update while I'm here. Almost a year and a half in and the scape being basically ignored for half that time has become dominated by stems and rosettes. I've got my marine tank mostly broken down now so I'm starting to take interest in the older PTs again. I'm a week or two away from a new picture day for this one, til then here are some of the preceding shots.

Going strong and self sufficient at this point, no human interaction for months other than feedings and a couple WCs. The fish have them a nice little forest city going on, probably a few pubs and brothels in there somewheres..
June 










Then man steps in with sharp tools to reorganize things for the greater good..
July 27









Come to find my crypts have been depleting, maybe a melt or maybe it's actually possible to starve a crypt of light. Other than that the tank is looking ok aside from the gsa. I started adding a little P to try and nix that. I'll update again once the stems fill back in.



Thanks for looking -J




.


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## paronaram (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks!
Is it something DIY, or can be purchased (SMS)?
What is the proportions? is it mixed, or placed as a layer.
And please, is there is anything special you do to make Java Fern grow so nice
When I get my fern from LPS it's large leafs and it takes forever to grow an extra leaf in the planted tank. And forget about Tanganyika Cichlid setup, fern dies (well in the last place I am not expecting it to grow I have there pH 8.4, dH and kH can not be measured to high, and 81F temp)


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

SMS was hard to get just one bag of years ago, the distributor everyone used has dropped the product. Search soilmaster on this forum and you should find plenty of threads with alternatives like Turface. It's nothing more than calcined (kiln fired) clay chips, and is marketed for many things, turf absorbents, oil absorbents and even cat litter. The main miner and manufacturer of such products is Oil-Dry. 

Turface Pro League Grey and Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil were the only ones I've seen that match SMS. Aquariumplants.com sells it in a large red bucket and over prices it, it might be smarter to just buy Aquasoil or the stuff that greenleaf is selling now, those most definitely contain more nutrients. I've been pretty absent from the forums for the last year or so, maybe folks have found a new alternative, or maybe they're all just shelling out for Aquasoil now. The main advantage of calcined clay over Aquasoil is the price, a huge 50lb bag of SMS was usually around $16. It has a superior CEC to anything else, but is not loaded with nutrients, maybe some iron, so some folks layer it over something that does. This stuff is ideal for saving money filling LARGE tanks.

Hope that helps.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

paronaram said:


> And please, is there is anything special you do to make Java Fern grow so nice
> When I get my fern from LPS it's large leafs and it takes forever to grow an extra leaf in the planted tank. And forget about Tanganyika Cichlid setup, fern dies (well in the last place I am not expecting it to grow I have there pH 8.4, dH and kH can not be measured to high, and 81F temp)


Lots of patience. I would trim most of the larger leaves off a big plant, the old growth often has a hard time transitioning to a new tank anyway, and it should promote new growth. I can say that they do prefer more light than their old reputation suggests, low light tolerant but usually won't flourish like Anubias does. This tank could be considered low light, but T5HO really does outshine the power compacts or T12. They should be tolerant of your hardness in the cichlid tank, I would make sure all your basis are covered there for nutrients and light, and always give them time to adjust, let them die off and attempt to regrow for awhile. CO2 helps immensely but as you see here it's not needed.


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