# Can T5HO bulbs be used in regular T5 fixtures?



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Couple of thoughts...

1) Hellolights, BigAlsOnline, and other suppliers carry a selection of NO T5 bulbs. Of course you can grow plants with them.

2) Instead of buying a fixture to mount under a canopy, why don't you buy a ballast, endcaps, and reflectors, and mount those under your canopy. Assuming you are comfortable with this sort of electrical stuff. Depending on wattage you might need to add a little fan to improve cooling.

3) There are many different ballasts. The ones I have do what you describe, they drive a bulb to a certain wattage, no matter if it is NO or HO. Of course there might also be ballasts that don't work that way and possible go up in smoke if you use HO bulbs with them. I don't think that would be the case, but still it is hard to say.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

I've replaced NO bulbs with HO bulbs with no problems. I'm not sure the long term effect on plants or if the ballast from the NO fixture can push enough power for the bulbs to act like HO, but the lights do work.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Wasserpest: When you say buy ballasts, endcaps, and reflectors, do you mean to buy like a retrofit kit, or just get these parts at a Home Depot or similar? Or do I need special ones to have near water? I have a glass top over the tank so they won't be over open water. I am fine with doing electrical stuff, so if you could point me in the right direction, that would be great. I have some posts considering the AH Supply kits, but some people thought the 96w might be too much to have without running CO2, which I wasn't going to do. So maybe the T5 way is better to go, and then I can mix and match the bulbs, and they are cheaper to replace as well.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

A retrofit kit might work. I usually buy the various parts separately, but if you just have one tank that needs light a retrofit kit might be less hassle. AHS carries only PC kits, but there are other places that have T5 retrofits.

Home Depot carries cheap ($20) electronic Advance ballasts that are spec'd for 4x 32W T8 bulbs, but they can drive T5 bulbs as well. The four leads give you some flexibility, you can push some more wattage if you connect two to each bulb (search for ODNO = overdriving).

Reefgeek or DIYReef have cheap endcaps, and they probably carry reflectors as well. Painting the canopy white works too, but with good reflectors you get more light into the tank.

Mounting this stuff over a tank with glass covers shouldn't be a problem, that's how the majority of tanks is illuminated. I usually mount my ballasts outside of the hood (back or top) to keep the heat in the canopy down. These Advance ballasts are very cool running though.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

So can those Advance ballasts power the T5HO bulbs, or regular? How do you determine what they can drive? Do you just make sure the total T5 output is less than 128 watts (32x4)? Can I get the endcaps at Home Depot too, or do I need water resistent ones? Maybe this is a good way to go. I checked those retrofit kits at reefgeek and they are over $200, so that is too much. If the AH supply kits with the reflectors are too much light for no CO2 according to some people, maybe if I just paint the canopy white, then it won't be too intense. Maybe running 2-T5 HO lights which would be 78 watts, do you think that would be good, or will that run with these ballasts?


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

78 watts of t5ho is high light for your tank. more than 96watts of power compact. hell, if your handy you can gut a $10 4 foot shop light. and put t8's in it. also home depot sells the end caps and ballasts for t12 and t8. I don't think t5's are worth the trouble or money for a low tech tank. go the cheapest route you can now. because you will most likely want to go high-tech in the future. you shouldn't have to spend more than 50 bucks to have good lighting for your setup.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

The reason I was thinking the T-5's is because they are smaller. And if I get that ballast wasserpest was talking about, and they can drive either bulbs, I figured why not. I didnt realize that would make it hi tech. But if its easier to get that and use T-8's then I guess that would work too. Either way, the bulbs will probably be most expensive right? Because I tried some GE T-12s that are 6500K that I got at Lowe's hoping they would work, but I didn't like the color.


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

yes, bulbs are pricey. if you didn't know already, t8's can go in a t12 fixture. and a ballast for a 48" t12 is fine for a 36" t8. I once cut down a 48" shop light to 36" with nothing but tin snips, a hammer and a drill. the cool thing with gutting a shop light and ditching the reflector for white paint is you can spread the lights apart. and get better coverage.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Hmmm, yeah thats a good idea. Are endcaps for T8 and T12 the same size, or do the bulbs just fit each other? So do you basically just mount the ballast anywhere you want (outside the canopy, or to the underside of it, or wherever) and do you just mount the endcaps to the underside of the wood, or does it need to be lined with tin or anything? Do they just screw to it, or whats the best way to mount them?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

dm76 said:


> So can those Advance ballasts power the T5HO bulbs, or regular?


Both. Like we agreed on earlier, some/most ballasts, like these Advance, will supply a certain wattage to certain length bulbs, no matter if they have a NO or HO label.




dm76 said:


> How do you determine what they can drive? Do you just make sure the total T5 output is less than 128 watts (32x4)?


Yes. As you add more bulbs the ballast will reduce the output. I measure wattage with a Kill-A-Watt thingie. For example, the ballast would drive two 4ft T5 bulbs to 40W each. As you add bulbs, the wattage delivered to each bulb goes down, and vice versa. The ballast itself uses about 5 Watts.




dm76 said:


> Can I get the endcaps at Home Depot too, or do I need water resistent ones? Maybe this is a good way to go.


Where I live HD doesn't carry anything T5 (except for some vanity fixtures). So I got mine at one of the ...reef... shops, can't remember which one. They are like a buck, plus shipping. You don't need water resistant ones, especially if you use glass covers.




dm76 said:


> I checked those retrofit kits at reefgeek and they are over $200, so that is too much. If the AH supply kits with the reflectors are too much light for no CO2 according to some people, maybe if I just paint the canopy white, then it won't be too intense. Maybe running 2-T5 HO lights which would be 78 watts, do you think that would be good, or will that run with these ballasts?


Could work well with the canopy painted white. Like I said, the retrofits might be nice, or might be overpriced, or both. A "better" ballast costs about $40, waterproof endcaps $10 a pair, and each reflector ~$20. Add in some wires and shipping, and depending on how many reflectors/endcaps/bulbs are included it might or might not be a good deal.



dm76 said:


> The reason I was thinking the T-5's is because they are smaller. And if I get that ballast wasserpest was talking about, and they can drive either bulbs, I figured why not. I didnt realize that would make it hi tech. But if its easier to get that and use T-8's then I guess that would work too. Either way, the bulbs will probably be most expensive right? Because I tried some GE T-12s that are 6500K that I got at Lowe's hoping they would work, but I didn't like the color.


If you invest the $20 in one of these very handy Kill-A-Watt things you can figure out what wattage you are using. Just working with T5 bulbs doesn't make anything high tech. If you use a lot of them at HO wattage with excellent reflectors over a small tank, then you have a high tech situation. If you use one at NO wattage without reflector over a large tank, very low tech. Always have to be specific.

Personally I think T5 is the way to go, whether NO or HO doesn't matter. But there are many possible solutions.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Great, that was very helpful. I read up on some of those ODNO so I understand the concept of that now. But if you put too much wattage to one tube, is it going to blow it up or anything? Or will it just not last as long? So in theory, if you had the ballast you mentioned that can run 4 lights, would you get the same output from the 4 lights as you would if you overdrove 2 lights? And the last question, and sorry if it is so novice, but I have never really seen endcaps without being in a fixture. How do you mount them? How do you affix them to the underside of the canopy? Can they be just mounted directly to the wood, or do they need to be on metal or on some kind of bracket? And is it as simple as just spacing them far enough apart so the 36" tube fits in there?


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

just screw them to the wood. I could mount a 48" shoplight in a 36" hood in about 10 minutes. just gut the light, tin snips help so you dont have to cut any wires. you mat have to disconnect the power cord, takes a second. everything stays wired, screw the ballast to the side or back or where ever it fits. screw the end caps down, tidy up the wires, put the bulbs in and you're done.roud:

if you want to get separate parts I get my ballasts here best price and free shipping


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

dm76 said:


> But if you put too much wattage to one tube, is it going to blow it up or anything? Or will it just not last as long?


It all depends on the specifics. The more wattage goes through the bulb, the hotter it burns, the shorter its life. I use some cheap 4ft NO bulbs (28W) and feed them to a Workhorse 7 ballast, which puts about 55W through them. So that's twice the spec'd wattage, and about as far as I'd go. Some of them last only 3 or 4 months, others I had for over a year.



dm76 said:


> So in theory, if you had the ballast you mentioned that can run 4 lights, would you get the same output from the 4 lights as you would if you overdrove 2 lights?


That's a good question. I think in most cases you would get more light from two bulbs that run a higher wattage than four with a lower wattage. There is more "punch", especially if you had good reflectors. On the other hand, if it would be a wide/deep tank, there might be dark areas where the distance from the bulbs is greatest.

Keep in mind that the ballast only delivers about 120 or so Watts. Even though we did some tests where one of these actually output 160 Watts (4x 40), normally you will notice that with four bulbs, it will only push about 30W through a 4ft bulb. Might be different for 3ft bulbs, not sure. The nice thing with using a 4 bulb ballast with two bulbs is that you can start off with NO, and then if you feel that more light would be better, switch to HO.



dm76 said:


> And the last question, and sorry if it is so novice, but I have never really seen endcaps without being in a fixture. How do you mount them? How do you affix them to the underside of the canopy? Can they be just mounted directly to the wood, or do they need to be on metal or on some kind of bracket? And is it as simple as just spacing them far enough apart so the 36" tube fits in there?


There are different endcaps, but the cheap, not waterproof ones that I usually use have a little thing on their bottoms so you can screw them directly to the wood. Some of the more expensive ones require "standoffs" which make them even more expensive, and needing fatter canopies.

Here is a canopy that I recently built for a plywood tank, you might be able to see the little endcaps.










Basically you attach one, and then use the bulb to measure where the second one goes...


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Hey that picture helped a lot, thanks. So in your picture, is the white part a metal reflector, or is it just the wood painted white? Maybe I will just go get a 4 foot shop light for $10 and cut it down. I guess that would be the cheapest way to go to see if I have enough light huh? So how can you tell which T8 ballasts will run T5 lights? Or will any of them work as long as you put T5 endcaps? Oh, and in all cases, its the ballasts that may get hot and the lights stay cool, right? If that is the case, and there is enough wire, can you mount the ballasts totally out of the way, like maybe inside the cabinet where you won't see them at all? Sorry for so many questions, but I really appreciate all your knowledge guys!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Just wood painted white in this case.

Shop light reflectors aren't really good for our purposes, they are made to spread the light in a wide angle. Better than no reflectors I guess.

I am just giving you an example of a ballast that works. REL-4P32-SC works.

Lights get hot too, depends on how much wattage goes through them. You can mount the ballast remotely, but keep the cables short, otherwise you might get some interference.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok, now that I have all this info, I will run this idea past anyone here that has an opinion on it. I have a 50 gallon (36x18x19) and I built the stand for it, and I have a piece of 1x4 trim on the top of the stand that goes around the bottom of the tank that hides the plastic frame from the tank. I am sure you know what i mean, as lots of the pre made stands look like this. Anyways, as for the canopy, I am thinking of doing something similar that will match the looks of that and cover the top plastic frame on the tank as well. I am thinking maybe I need to use a 1x8 to go around it, so 2 inches will hang down to cover the plastic frame, and 3/4 in will be used up by putting the plywood top inset in the frame. So maybe run some 1x2's or something to sit on top of the tank, and then attach them to the 1x8 that will over hang. I would leave the back open, or maybe instead of 1x8, put something smaller back there to leave room for air circulation, tubing, etc. So if this setup works, then I would have 4 3/4 inches between the top of the tank and the top of the canopy (7 1/2 inch board - 2 inch overhang - 3/4 inch for the plywood). Then make an opening on the top with a hinge, maybe 6-8 inches, and then i would have 8-10 inches left to mount any lights. Does this sound like it will work, and is that enough room for lights? I could mount the ballasts at the underside of the canopy right near the back where it is open.

And any opinion on the total watts would be great too. Is two 36" enough to start with (thats about 30 watts each with a T8, right?) So if I just hook up that ballast the regular way to two bulbs, and leave the other two unhooked, does that just put out 30 watts to each? And then if I need more, I could overdrive them, or add one or two more bulbs? Maybe since this tank is wide, more bulbs spread out might be better? Do you have to use the lights on this ballast in pairs, or can one or two be unhooked?


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## bartak (Feb 18, 2007)

ideally you would want the bulbs around 5 inches from the front and back for even coverage. I would either have the whole top flip up or make your opening around 3 or 4 inches, just big enough to get your arm in there if you need to.

if you are going the route of purchasing separate parts. I think t5"s would be a good choice. if what Wasserpest is saying is true, you can run a pair of NO bulbs and if you want more light you can put in some t5ho bulbs. I had no idea that you could run t5ho's on a standard t8 ballast. and btw the ballast I sent you a link to is top notch. for some reason they can't list the brand names. but every ballast is usa made. every time I've ordered they sent advanced ballasts. t5's will cost more than a shop light but you will have more leg room


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

I guess I don't need the opening that big. I was thinking make it big enough so I can get in there to clean, and still have the lights on it, but maybe I can make it smaller, or make it double hinged so I can either open a small part of it, or the whole thing if I need to.

I think I will go to a pet store and check prices on bulbs, because while I can order them online, I think I will want to see what they look like first in case I need to return them. For example, I bought a GE 6500k light at Lowe's because I thought I would like that, but it just doesn't look good. I'm not sure if I need a 10,000k, or a 5000k, but I guess I can try them both.

If anyone knows if that ballast you sent the link to would work on T-5's let me know. And if you have a ballast that can run 4 lights, can you just hook up 2 or 3 and leave the last set of wires capped off, or will the light now work?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

dm76 said:


> And any opinion on the total watts would be great too. Is two 36" enough to start with (thats about 30 watts each with a T8, right?) Maybe since this tank is wide, more bulbs spread out might be better?


I would go for 3 bulbs since this tank is relatively wide. It depends on the reflector too. If you just paint the canopy white, there is better light diffusion, and you can get away with 2 bulbs. If you use T5 bulbs with T5 reflectors, the light is directed down, and you might end up with underlit areas with only two bulbs.



dm76 said:


> So if I just hook up that ballast the regular way to two bulbs, and leave the other two unhooked, does that just put out 30 watts to each? And then if I need more, I could overdrive them, or add one or two more bulbs? Do you have to use the lights on this ballast in pairs, or can one or two be unhooked?


With the ballast I mentioned you can do all of that. You can hook and unhook to your hearts content.



bartak said:


> if what Wasserpest is saying is true, you can run a pair of NO bulbs and if you want more light you can put in some t5ho bulbs. I had no idea that you could run t5ho's on a standard t8 ballast.


That is exactly the opposite to what I said - The ballast determines how much wattage is supplied to a certain length bulb. Doesn't matter if the label is NO or HO.


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## dm76 (Mar 15, 2009)

Hey Wasser...

I went to Home Depot today to buy the parts. They did not have the Advance ballast you mentioned, but I got a Sylvania QTP4x32 T8 ballast they had for $15. Is that a good ballast and/or will it work with overdriving the T8's if i need to? I also got some endcaps, and for the power, I just bought a cheap 16 gauge extension cord for $1. I just need to cut off one end and hook them to the power leads, right? So everything cost $20. Is that all I need? I wish they had the selection of 36" bulbs there like they do the 48", but thats ok, I guess I'll have to get them at a pet store or online.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yes, that ballast should work alright. I guess half of the box stores carry the Advance, the other half Sylvania ballasts. If you paint the inside of the canopy white, and have some wirenuts or other ways to connect wires this is all you need for now...


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