# Harlequin vs. False Harlequin Rasbora



## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

How can I tell the difference between a Harlequin and a False Harlequin? The store only knew them as "Rasbora Tetras." :icon_roll (most of the employees are saltwater keepers)


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## DanG (Apr 25, 2006)

False Harlequins? I know of three types of Harlequin Rasboras, the true Harlequin which can have several color morhps, one rosier and one slightly less so. Some even very dark.

Then there is the Espei, with the swoosh, as it were. Very orangy, narrower body, and quite beautiful. 

Then there is the Hengeli, also quite beautiful. I have all three. 

There is also apparently a type called the somphongsi, though I have never seen it or actually heard of it before just now. You can google the others and see pictures of them. 

Never heard of a rasbora tetra myself. But maybe they exist.


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

The Espei is the one this site calls a False Harlequin.

These fish have bright orange eyes and orange on their fins. There is orange above and below the black spot. I'll have to try to get pictures, but the curved glass is a PITA for that.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I keep espeis and regular harlequins. There is an obvious difference. Here is a picture that I took a while back with an espei and a normal harlequin:










Don't pay attention to the rosy mark. The thread was about how some regular harlequins are colored differently sometimes.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/63960-harlequin-rasboras-red-coloration.html


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Okay, so the black on the Harlequin is pretty large/solid, huh? These look like your Espei, or kind of in between. Dang. Actually, they look like the first fish to the right of your Harlequin.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

The first fish to the right of the fish that I have labeled "rosy colored harlequin" is a harlequin as well. From what I have seen there are two color variations of harleqins and I have both. I don't know if one is farmed and the other one isn't or what. In both cases though, the "pork chop" area is signifigantly larger as compared to the smaller espeis.


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## Lupin (Nov 21, 2006)

dang said:


> Never heard of a rasbora tetra myself. But maybe they exist.


Probably the _Sawbwa resplendens_, Dang? They are also called rummy-nose rasboras or naked rasboras. Rarely available. I had four and had trouble searching for more.


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

There is no Rasbora tetra. The employees at the shop just don't know what they are talking about. Rasboras are from asia and tetras come from South America or Africa.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I can actually hear the conversation...

"Hey, dude- what's this fish we just got in? Is it a Rasbora or a Tetra?"

"I don't know, just call it a Rasbora tetra and we're covered."

:icon_roll


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Amanda, where did you find some espei rasboras for sale? I want some! (I'm trying to complete my rasbora collection, lol)


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## JohnEX (Jan 28, 2004)

the espei are smaller and don't have the colored fins that a harlequin has. that's how i identify them. one of my local fish stores has both in different tanks, but they are both labeled "harlequin rasbora".


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

Rasbora Tetra makes as much sense as Apistogramma Killifish.


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

So, if it has colored fins, is a Harlequin?

These guys don't have as solid of a black spot as others I have seen in pictures, but they also don't have the Nike swoosh looking black like the Espei. They look like something in between.

Church, I got them from Aquarium Creations in Brandon. These are the only Rasboras they have. I will post pics tonight.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ Hmmm. I just went there a few weeks ago when I was looking for some hengel's rasboras. When I got there, I asked the guy if he had any. He said he had never heard of them. I expected that, since in my searches, I discovered that for some reason the hengeli are commonly mislabeled as "espei." So then I asked him if he had any espei, and he said, "yeah we normally carry those, but someone just came and bought them all, and I only have one left because he fell into another tank and was missed."

So I had him show me the one that he had, and sure enough, it was a Hengel's rasbora! So I then bought him, since he was all alone, and I had a shipment on its way to me from Invertz Factory. Then I educated the guy on the difference between espei and hengeli, but all it did was confuse him, and I said nevermind, since the wholesalers are gonna mislabel them anyway.

The moral of the story is: you probably have Hengel's rasboras and NOT Espei rasboras, because the guy told me these are the only one he gets, and they are quite simply NOT espei's.

Do they look like this: (sorry about the crappy pic)










If so, they are Hengeli's rasboras, which are commonly sold as Espei, for some reason.

If I'm wrong, then the guy flat out lied to me when he said that the ones he was calling "espei's" were the only ones he gets. Because I went on and gave him my phone number and told him to call me if he ever gets any rasboras called "false harlequins" or "lambchop rasboras."

Show us pictures.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Church -

Thats a great picture if you use it to compare with mine. There is a very obvious difference between the 3 different fish.


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

According to Brittan (who wrote the book on Rasboras) R. hengeli and R. espei are both probably subspecies or geographically isolated populations of the more common R.heteromorpha. They will interbred and produce viable young.

Bruce


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Thats interesting BW, and I can believe it. Personally, I think there are some subspecies of harlequins. If you look at the picture I posted, there is a picture of what looks to me to be a different harlequin than normal. It has that blueish sheen along the dorsal side and deep red eyes. Those are different than harlequins that I have in my tank that were bought from a different source.


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, I don't have my good camera to take pics, but I snapped these with my piece of crap P&S.

They are very orange from the black back. All the fins have orange. Their eyes are trimmed in orange.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Those pictures are somewhat fuzzy and out of focus, but I can kind of make out some main points.

I am leaning towards regular harlequins, but rosey in nature. My basis is off of the last pic. 

I have a feeling you got some VERY nice fish as they are displaying very nice colors even though the pictures came out a little blury.

What kind of camera are you using forddna, and are you using the macro setting?


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

It's a Kodak. I bought it because I loved my last Kodak point and shoot. This one, however, only takes decent pictures under IDEAL circumstances. None of the special settings work right, so I have to use Auto for everything. Actually, trying to use this camera at an aquarium in Las Vegas is the reason I bought my Nikon D50.


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

BTW, whatever they are, I like them a lot and plan to go back and get more! They were $2.99 each, so I just got 6 to keep it under $20.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

If I had my bigger future tank set up, I would ask you to buy a large school and ship them to me. Those guys do look pretty sweet.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

They look like harlequins to me alright. And I agree, they are very beautiful and showing their colors, so they must be happy! I love my harlequins as well, which is why I am trying to get them to spawn!


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Harlequin:
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/img/Trigonostigma_heteromorpha_2.jpg

espei:

http://allabout.co.jp/pet/aquarium/closeup/CU20030918A/ra_espei.jpg


Cheers,


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

First link doesn't work, but they look like the second link to me.


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Uploaded two crappy videos from my cell phone.

http://www.youtube.com/user/forddna2


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

R. heteromorpha 100% sure. End of discussion. Sure they all look alike but these are the more common harlequins. 

Buy the way color is way down on the list for discribing species. Just because a fish has slightly different colors then the others does not make it a seperate species. Many things can affect the color in fish such as age, sexual maturity and breeding coloration.

Bruce


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks, Bruce. I'm definitely going back to get more.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Honestly, I don't personally understand how the two species (or sub-species, whatever!) can be confused. When I look at each one of your pictures, and now those videos, it's so obvious that you have trigonostigma heteromorpha-- not espei. There are substantial differences between the two. For me, it's immediately known by the bright pink dorsal fins and tail. Espei fins are more of a translucent orange kind of color, nothing at all like the bright purple pink of your fish. Then on top of that, they all have the rotund shape of the harlequin, instead of the more streamlined shape of the espei. And then, moreso than that, the black triangle is HUGE on your fish. It's rather small on the espei.

Here's a good picture of espeis that I found by Googling:










I hope you can see the difference now: coloration, body shape, markings...


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## Andreality (Dec 19, 2007)

Speaking of Rasboras... I bought 10 _Sawbwa Resplendens _from my local PetSmart. They were reduced to clear for $1 each! They were selling them under the name "Rummynose Rasboras"...



Just a heads up if anyone is looking for them...


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Church, judging by those pictures, yes! But I have seen Harlequins that don't look like mine, and I have seen Espeis that don't look like those you posted!

If you go back to the first page, that pic of the Espei is a "rotund" shape. Then you mention the color - people keep saying that color doesn't mean anything. So I keep getting contradicting photos and info, making it hard for a Rasbora newb to ID them!!



BTW, the fins on my guys look orange or reddish orange to me, not pink or purple. ??


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

No kidding!! Someone on here was talking about going with Asian Rummynose. They sounded so rare online! Who knew they'd be at Petsmart. lol


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

forddna said:


> If you go back to the first page, that pic of the Espei is a "rotund" shape. Then you mention the color - people keep saying that color doesn't mean anything. So I keep getting contradicting photos and info, making it hard for a Rasbora newb to ID them!!


Well I don't know what to tell you then. Maybe it's just not coming through in your pics. To me, they look like the more "copper" colored harlequins, as referenced in that thread that BiscuitSlayer linked to. There are definitely harlequins that are a more copper color than the rosy pink ones. I don't know, I mean, you're the one looking at them in person, so you have the better vantage point.

How big are they? Espei's don't get as big as harlequins.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I thought I'd post a few more pictures just in case they help you I.D. your fishies!!

Here's a few more of t. espei:




















And a few of t. heteromorpha:


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Mine look like the second Harlequin there.


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

God this thread is annoying. They are harlequins. Get over it.

They are big, healthy and colorful. Enjoy them!


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

BruceWatts said:


> God this thread is annoying. They are harlequins. Get over it.


Stop posting in it then, and don't read it when it has new updates.

Problem solved.


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## Lupin (Nov 21, 2006)

Andreality said:


> Speaking of Rasboras... I bought 10 _Sawbwa Resplendens _from my local PetSmart. They were reduced to clear for $1 each! They were selling them under the name "Rummynose Rasboras"...
> 
> 
> 
> Just a heads up if anyone is looking for them...


You're making me greener than a field of shamrocks.


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## Justbeginningfish (Mar 28, 2008)

ook not to hijack but my LFS has a school of little rasboras that are shaped just like the harlequins but 80% of their body is a deep deep purple blue which fades into a bright orangy red on their head, I have looked and looked online but cant find anything that looks like them other than maybe the black color morph...they are ridiculously adorable little things but I wish I could ID them before possibly buying


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The husbandry is pretty much identical on all these small rasboras, so if you like them- go for it, as long as you take some pics and post them for us! :hihi:


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

BruceWatts said:


> God this thread is annoying. They are harlequins. Get over it.
> 
> They are big, healthy and colorful. Enjoy them!


:icon_roll Thank you for your worthless assessment of this thread. Now, crawl back under your rock and leave this thread to the mature adults.


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## Andreality (Dec 19, 2007)

forddna said:


> No kidding!! Someone on here was talking about going with Asian Rummynose. They sounded so rare online! Who knew they'd be at Petsmart. lol


I was surprised that nobody had bought them! I believe they were going for $3.99 when they first arrived. Couple weeks later they were Reduced to $1 to make way for new fishies. Guess I lucked out, huh?

They're very bashful.. I tried to take pictures yesterday but they didn't like the paparazzi.


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

LOL

I would guess most Petsmart customers would think they were just some junk/generic fish because they didn't recognize them. I bet if they called them some kind of Cichlid or Hybrid Neon Tetra or something, they would have sold. LOL


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

forddna said:


> :icon_roll Thank you for your worthless assessment of this thread. Now, crawl back under your rock and leave this thread to the mature adults.


Sorry I have been trying to help you but you keep waffling back and forth when it is pretty obvious and several people who seem to know there stuff have told you that you have harliquins. 

There is no need for personal attacks and I was not trying to offend anyone but this thread just keeping getting longer and longer with other people piping in on other rasbora or related species that they have seen at the LFS. If they have a question they should start their own thread.

As to maturity I am 58 years old and have been in the hobby for 50 years. It does no good to tell someone to "crawl back under your rock" that really shows no sign of maturity at all.

At one time I specialized in Rasboras and they are a very challenging group of fish to breed. If you have futher questions I recommend the book "Rasboras, keeping & breeding them in captivity" by Dr. Martin R. Brittan. He is/ was ( I don't know if he is still alive) the world's formost expert on the Rasboras.

Sorry if I offended you.

BruceWatts


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## Andreality (Dec 19, 2007)

They probably saw 'Rummynose' and were expecting the Tetras. Lucky for me then! I didn't know they were hard to come by... I'm actually pretty new to the hobby. I set up my 29g in January and things are looking good. I thought they would be a great addition to the tank.. and 10 for $10 sounds good to me!  

I got about 4 Green Fire tetras that were being sold for $1 a few months ago. I also was able to pick up a Female Crowntail Betta a few weeks ago for the price of a regular female...


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

BruceWatts said:


> Sorry I have been trying to help you but you keep waffling back and forth when it is pretty obvious and several people who seem to know there stuff have told you that you have harliquins.
> 
> There is no need for personal attacks and I was not trying to offend anyone but this thread just keeping getting longer and longer with other people piping in on other rasbora or related species that they have seen at the LFS. If they have a question they should start their own thread.
> 
> ...


 
So, you are sorry for the effect, but not sorry for causing it. Real nice. 

As for this waffling you speak of, as stated, everyone would say "color doesn't matter in regards to ID'ing" followed by "I know that's a Harlequin because of the color." Then "I know it's a Harlequin because it's not elongated like an Espei." Then you go back to the first page of this thread and see the photo of the NOT elongated and rather rotund Espei. So, what would you expect to happen? A Rasbora newb being even more confused than before.

It's fine for someone to tell me, "I know for a fact that that's a Harlequin." Well, that's great, but doesn't teach me anything. If I didn't care about learning HOW to ID these fish, I would never have created this thread. 

So, I get explanations that contradict each other, therefore, I ask more questions. What is so wrong with that?

If you're sick of this thread, stay out of it. It's your choice to click on it. Heck, you can even unsubscribe, and you'll never see it in your User CP again. :thumbsup:


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

The "rather rotund espei" is a female carrying eggs. As to learning HOW to ID rasboras the scientific experts do not even agree on which are seperate species and which fish are color varients or sub-species. That makes it difficult for the average hobbyist to make any kind of judgement at all. If you could see all the three similar harlequin like rasboras swimming in groups side by side it would be much easier to observe the differences. 

The thing is that there are differences even between individuals in each group. The last set of four photos shows the differences extremely well. The bottom line is it is only through keeping and observation can you become proficient in IDing things. It is very hard to learn things from the internet as everyone has an opinion and there is a lot of misinformation on this or any site for that matter.

Obviously I have ruffled some feathers here but that was not my intent. If you want me to stop trying to help then just say so I I'll go on to other threads or sites. The reason I stayed on this thread is because I wanted to help. 

Bruce


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## Lupin (Nov 21, 2006)

Andreality said:


> They probably saw 'Rummynose' and were expecting the Tetras. Lucky for me then! I didn't know they were hard to come by... I'm actually pretty new to the hobby. I set up my 29g in January and things are looking good. I thought they would be a great addition to the tank.. and 10 for $10 sounds good to me!


Get more as soon as you find some. They're only 1.5-2 inches so your 29 should support more of these fish assuming you don't get other fish that excrete heavy amounts of wastes. Females are easy to distinguish. They're plain and simple. No colors.


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## Andreality (Dec 19, 2007)

Bluebell said:


> Get more as soon as you find some. They're only 1.5-2 inches so your 29 should support more of these fish assuming you don't get other fish that excrete heavy amounts of wastes. Females are easy to distinguish. They're plain and simple. No colors.


I got the last batch. 

I can go to another LFS and see if I can find some. I'm feeling lucky. Hehe. I believe I have all males... So picking up some females would be nice. I also have the 4 Green Fires, 5 Neons, 5 Otos & 3 Amano Shrimp. I'm stickin' to the little guys for my first tank...


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Bruce, I appreciate the help, really.


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

Actually this post has got me thinking and I went out and bought some harlequins today. I have two tanks that are already cycled and these are the first FW fish I have had since 1999. For the past 5 years I have been raising and selling seahorses and have had nothing but SW tanks.

Good luck with your rasboras. I hope to breed and raise the fish I got today.

Bruce


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## forddna (Sep 12, 2007)

Good luck!


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