# Grobbins 40 Breeder Planted (Previously 40 Breeder Blackwater Journey)



## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

November 12, 2018

When first putting all of the wood into the tank, especially the mopani, I boiled it, each piece for 10-20 min (cannot remember exactly how long for each. The water from after boiling was extremely tannin stained. I boiled the wood to try and decontaminate, not with the intent of removing tannins. I know mopani is notorious for leaching tannins forever, which is actually a selling point in this case!

At this point, just about a week into the tank, it is nearly black. I mean it is crazy how dark the water is, especially with running a 30" Beamswork DA FSPEC on top that puts out a TON of light. 

It was at this time that the floating plants that were from @FishRFriendz were added to the tank. Beautifully package Amazon Frogbit and dwarf water lettuce. It was crazy cold the week we shipped them, but they made it in great shape, and immediately took to the water and started growing like mad!

It was here that I realized just how much nutrients these plants can suck from the water. I would test for N and there would be absolutely zero, none. I would dose 10ppm KNO3, and by the next week, zero, none. Crazy to me! More to come on this, but I have stopped dosing for a bit as I play around with things. Also, hope to have PAR reading sometime this week (but that is jumping in the future from this post! ha)

Here is a shot of what it looked like right when I added the plants:










And here is one from November 28th:










Amazing what nature can do. And here is a photo that I just love. I should take another one like it soon.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Today (ish)

The tank has been wonderful, and I am really enjoying having it part of my hobby. It is a cool contrast to the high tech planted setup that is two feet from it. People am amazed at the difference when they visit.

I ended up changing the scape quite a bit. I was not enjoying how things were lumped around the middle, no real theme or reason to placement, etc. I decided to try my hand at creating a more natural looking root structure, with some smaller intricacies with Japanese maple. I must say, I am pretty excited how it turned out. 

The Oak and Maple are from my yard, cut down because I needed to prune the trees, then left to dry for a couple months.

Here are a few pictures of it quite recently. Now that I am caught up I'll work to detail in some more thoughts and plans going forward with the aquarium. For those following along, I would love to make this an area to share and discuss!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Looks great, following along for sure!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

This isnt exactly like yours, but it has a very similar feel to it. 
This is what Id like to do- it has altums and biotodoma cupidos- both fish I have. I love the way this looks.
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8c/2b/4e/8c2b4ea1c743cd826bfa31c77a3e3ce3.jpg


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> This isnt exactly like yours, but it has a very similar feel to it.
> This is what Id like to do- it has altums and biotodoma cupidos- both fish I have. I love the way this looks.
> https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8c/2b/4e/8c2b4ea1c743cd826bfa31c77a3e3ce3.jpg


Oh wow- that would be/ is a beautiful and amazing tank! Are you making plans right now for setting up something like this?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

When I can convince my husband .

If I am not able to, I will convert my 60 gallon over to a black-water tank with just the 4 Altums (and probably a school of larger, deeper bodies tetras like an _hypehessobrycon _species. Something from Rio Orinoco. That will be all the 60 gallon can support.


Edit: The altums are juveniles right now, at about a half-dollar size. I will wait awhile until they get some growth on them before I convert the tank over and do too much disruption.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I'll be sure to follow along if/ when you get something like that going!

Would you go true biotope setup, or a close replication of nature? The more I research, the true biotope 'rules 'are quite intense, and seem difficult to execute correctly. Maybe one day ill explore that as I learn more and have done more on this side of the hobby!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I will do my best to do a biotope true to where the Altum are found- but, I will not be too upset if I have to make concessions. So, when you have an attitude like that you mostly put together a "biotope-ish" arrangement. 

I haven't spent too much time doing research yet on the plants and tetras endemic to the area. But, when I do, if I cant find what I will need to do this, I will get as close as I can.


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

Blackwaters are so nifty, I always wanted one, but quench my desire by just looking at everyone's online. Definitely following.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

*29 Gallon Blackwater Journey*

Black water tanks are awesome. I started mine about 2 years ago and it’s by far my favorite style tank. It also helps that Apistogramma are my favorite fish. 

Also, I’ve been looking for some water lettuce. If you’re willing to ship let me know and I’ll buy some from you. 

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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Black water tanks are awesome. I started mine about 2 years ago and it’s by far my favorite style tank. It also helps that Apistogramma are my favorite fish.
> 
> Also, I’ve been looking for some water lettuce. If you’re willing to ship let me know and I’ll buy some from you.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Can we see a picture of your tank? 



Like I said, we need a biotope/natural aquarium subcategory.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

@Nlewis yes, please feel free to share a picture(s). I would love to see what you created! I also enjoy the apisto thread that you started.

I'll send you a PM on the dwarf wate lettuce, I would be happy to share. In a week or two I should have a whole bunch extra. Hopefully we can find a week with decent weather too! It's getting cold again!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Discusluv said:


> Can we see a picture of your tank?
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, we need a biotope/natural aquarium subcategory.


This is the tank in various stages, the top picture is of its current state. I wish I had more wood and less plants, but can’t bring myself to remove the plants. It’s by far the easiest tank I have to maintain and my favorite. It’s currently housing several species of Corydoras, otto’s, green neons and several generations of Apistogramma Panduro. 


























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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

@Nlewis that really is beautiful. With being successful spawning the apistos, any recommendations? I have only had mine a few months, and do far no action. The female may still be a bit young? I am not sure. They are apistogramma agassizii fire red. 

I too would like to have this tank create a few generations!

As for the botanicals- did you use tannin aquatics or another source? I really like the look of more natural litter on the substrate, but I have yet to place an order. Still trying to decide what I would want, or if I would go for the $25 mystery package they offer.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

As the lights came on today I noticed that the flow was nearly nothing. No surface agitation from the spray bar at all. So I disconnect to see the flow rate, and it had to be around 1 gallon per couple min.

The culprit was the foam pre-filter that I added. I realized I did not clean it this week, and it was pretty horribly clogged. The foam is also quite dense, maybe a little too dense for a pre-filter. For the time being I have removed it and instantly the flow went back to a decent rate. So now I have just the standard intake on, and no foam at the moment. When I have more time I'll need to experiment a bit and decide what I want to do.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Search around for foam with larger pores and make your own. I really only use one to keep shrimplets in the display tank, so I'm not tasked with "saving" a few dozen from the filter at each cleaning = faster filter service. It's just a bonus that the media is way easier to clean / way less dirty because of the pre-filter. I use the Fluval edge sponge, but I'm thinking of looking for / building a pre-filter sponge using one with larger pores. Replace often because 1) sponges are cheap 2) keeps pores cleaner = more flow 3) piece of mind your filter motor is working slightly less.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Search around for foam with larger pores and make your own. I really only use one to keep shrimplets in the display tank, so I'm not tasked with "saving" a few dozen from the filter at each cleaning = faster filter service. It's just a bonus that the media is way easier to clean / way less dirty because of the pre-filter. I use the Fluval edge sponge, but I'm thinking of looking for / building a pre-filter sponge using one with larger pores. Replace often because 1) sponges are cheap 2) keeps pores cleaner = more flow 3) piece of mind your filter motor is working slightly less.


That is some good advice. For me using the sponge was two fold: 1) to keep the media/ filter cleaner longer and 2) if (hopefully when) the apistos spawn I didn't want any fry sucked up.

I think I ordered these current fine ones off the bay and they were insanely cheap. When I have some time later on I'll put a fresh one on and see what that flow is like. It might be as simple as changing/ cleaning one or two times a week.

If that is a no go I'll look for something a bit more course and go from there!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Grobbins48 said:


> That is some good advice. For me using the sponge was two fold: 1) to keep the media/ filter cleaner longer and 2) if (hopefully when) the apistos spawn I didn't want any fry sucked up.
> 
> I think I ordered these current fine ones off the bay and they were insanely cheap. When I have some time later on I'll put a fresh one on and see what that flow is like. It might be as simple as changing/ cleaning one or two times a week.
> 
> If that is a no go I'll look for something a bit more course and go from there!


I ended up having to DIY a filter guard as the edge filters are just too dense, cheap and easy to find yes. I happen to have some SS mesh from when I made a cover for my overflow. I made a SS pre filter for my Aquaclear 110 I have on a tank in my garage. Doesn't clog and when it gets close it it, it's just leaves sucked onto the screen.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> @Nlewis that really is beautiful. With being successful spawning the apistos, any recommendations? I have only had mine a few months, and do far no action. The female may still be a bit young? I am not sure. They are apistogramma agassizii fire red.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Agassizii can be a bit tricky as they can be finicky when choosing a mate. I had some Fire Red and Abacaxis have successful spawns but with no grow outs. The biggest thing is to ensure they feel comfortable. 

I have ordered from Tannin twice. Both times I just bought whatever pods I liked. FYI, I love the banana stems. For leaves I just use hard wood leaves from the yard. 

Later on as the tank ages the tannins will fade to the point it becomes a “clear water” biotope. I chased tannins for the longest time trying to recreate black water with a small bit of success. When that happens Robios tea is your friend. 

I’ll get some pics of the Panduro babes for you later tonight[emoji6]. 


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Agassizii can be a bit tricky as they can be finicky when choosing a mate. I had some Fire Red and Abacaxis have successful spawns but with no grow outs. The biggest thing is to ensure they feel comfortable.
> 
> I have ordered from Tannin twice. Both times I just bought whatever pods I liked. FYI, I love the banana stems. For leaves I just use hard wood leaves from the yard.
> 
> ...


I suppose I'll give them some more time to settle in, and keep an eye on how thing progress. They get along just fine, but she usually looks at him a bit then swims away.

I'll likely place an order from tannin for some pods and things. Really it is for the looks vs. straight tannin adding. I also have been collecting oak leaves from the tree in my backyard to use eventually. Should probably grab a bunch more that are on the tree now before the completely winter over.

As for the rooibos tea was it as simple as making a cup of tea, cooling it, then adding to the tank after a water change? I should have a bit of time before I get to that stage, but figured I would ask what you have done in the past and have it documented here!

And can't wait to see the pictures of the little ones swimming around your tank.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I just use hot water in a large glass and add it to the tank once it cools. I use 1 tea bag per 10 gallons and it works great. It gives it a great look without making it too dark. 






































Pictures aren’t the best. The little guys wouldn’t cooperate with me last night and stop darting around. 


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

@Nlewis Thanks for the advice on the blackwater. Later on when the tannins are not so present I'll give that a try. Also, very nice on the little apistos, it must be a blast to watch them grow and interact!

As I look around for botanicals, I have seen Tannin Aquatics. They seem to get good reviews, and praise on this forums well as others. Are there any other places people recommend? I am not looking for leaf litter, but more of pods and things of that nature to help enhance the look of the tank and the feel to the environment for the apistos.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I’m unaware of any business that deals in botanicals like Tannin Aquatics. I do use other things collected from the yard like wall nuts and small branches. 


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Over the past week I ended up adding some more branches from the Japanese Maple drying in my garage. This time no boiling or anything, just plopped them in and wait a few days for them to sink. I think it is a decent look, though likely needs a little arranging. Doing that with a surface full of floating plants can be a bit tough, so maybe in a few more days I'll thin it out even more and do some arranging.

On another note I finally purchased a temp controller. Never have I ever used one, and knock on wood I have not yet had a heater issue. They are just cheaper Azoo units, the Micro Temperature Controller. My thought is to use it as a fail safe (set about 1 degree C above where I want the tank) and let the heater set the temperature. I am not sure if this is the proper use, but I have the blackwater set to 26 C right now. I also added a new sticker thermometer just to see where things were at. Really new, but so far seem decent. Would love to hear from anyone else who has experience with this unit, or temp controllers in general.

Here are a few pics on how things are looking.

Temp controller:










Random shots:

























































FTS:


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Look what I just found. No wonder she didn't like my hands in the tank! Now let's see how they do, fingers crossed!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Excellent! Great job!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Excellent! Great job!


Super excited! I was not sure if they would pair. This is also my first apistogramma spawn ever. 

Will be interesting to see what happens, but at the very least I know they are a pair!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Got to love finding babies!! 

As far as the temp controller, I have the controller for setting the tank temperature. I have the heaters set to about 5 degrees above (81F), in fahrenheit for my temp controller. The theory is that the actual heaters fail at the bimetallic strip device in the heater, from the opening and closing of the power across it. So if you can have it not get that arc from power on and off that should help the heater last longer. At least this was the logic I followed for using the controller to set the temp and the heaters as the failover.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Got to love finding babies!!
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the temp controller, I have the controller for setting the tank temperature. I have the heaters set to about 5 degrees above (81F), in fahrenheit for my temp controller. The theory is that the actual heaters fail at the bimetallic strip device in the heater, from the opening and closing of the power across it. So if you can have it not get that arc from power on and off that should help the heater last longer. At least this was the logic I followed for using the controller to set the temp and the heaters as the failover.


Thanks for the temp controller feedback. I'll need to read a bit more but that makes sense as a safety to have ot cut the power at the set temp vs. the heater doing it.

And yes, exciting to find babies unexpectedly. Let's hope some make it through the first few weeks!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

The parenting that is happening in this tank is extremely impressive right now. Mom is all over the babies, who are already quite adventurous. It is exciting to watch her change her body language and how the babies will all react and follow her around. She keeps moving them around the tank to different spots every so often, and will not let anyone (well dad is okay so far), not even the oto's, get close to her little ones. When a few get too far away she takes them in her mouth and brings them back home. She has quite the touch! Reminds me a little of the African Cichlid days!

Even dad, who I read was supposed to not care about raising the young (for agassizii at least I read) is defending the area from the pencil fish (who really are not seeming interested in eating anyone) and the oto's (the most peaceful fish ever...). He lacks a little with the careful touch when trying to move the little ones, so he better leave that to mom (hes not eating them, but in true dad style is a little rough with the kids and too young an age, ha).

I know it is only day two of having the little ones, and there is quite a while to go for this to be successful, but it is an amazing experience to watch nature like this happen in your home!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Mom and dad continue to protect. Still have over 20 fry hanging around. These little ones seem like they will be slow growers for sure.

Really moving around the tank as a unit, exploring quite a bit. 

I did add a few more leaves to stimulate some more microbe growth.

Picture with mom and dad protecting. And you can see a few fry to the left. Super difficult to focus on with a phone camera, and no macro lenses for my DSLR.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> Mom and dad continue to protect. Still have over 20 fry hanging around. These little ones seem like they will be slow growers for sure.
> 
> Really moving around the tank as a unit, exploring quite a bit.
> 
> ...


Damn... I guess I know my plans for tonight, move my female into the tank with the male....


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Damn... I guess I know my plans for tonight, move my female into the tank with the male....


Good luck, and be patient. They were together about two months before these little ones showed up! About 20 or so still hanging in there today.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Congratulations! These two fish are so amazing!
I love this tank.


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## vijay_06 (Apr 11, 2017)

Those Apistos look stunning!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Congratulations! These two fish are so amazing!
> I love this tank.


Thanks! I have been quite impressed by them. I'll be honest didn't expect any fry to make it one week in.


vijay_06 said:


> Those Apistos look stunning!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks! It really is crazy how beautiful those fins can get with no fighting or nipping. When I purchased them from the store the male was okay looking but didn't have nearly the tail he has now. 

Hopefuly some of these fry make it, very curious to see how they raise up!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Removed some of the floating plants, wow they grow fast. Getting plenty mor delight into the tank now. 

There are about 10 or so fry left (I think) and of those some seem much larger than others. Still hoping for a few of them to pull through. Live BBS feeding is not an option, so I have been using the hikari first bites, and feed the tank with frozen cyclops as well as frozen brine shrimp.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Cleaned this up a bit!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Not too much to update on- Still have fry doing quite well- Hope to get 5 - 10 of them at this point, which is pretty exciting. Otherwise just enjoying a low maintenance, and stress revealing tank!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Just a few from today. Enjoy!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Was unable to take a pictureof this, but pretty sure I saw some pencil fish fry in the floating plants! Pretty cool if they are able make it.

Wonder how many have been caught in roots of plants I toss... I better be more careful in the future!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Here we go again! Fry from last batch are hanging around the whole tank now. Just found these today, my guess by her behaviour is they are about a day old.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Maybe someone can help me understand this one:

Tap GH: 8
Blackwater Tank GH:12 (tested twice)

There is BDBS mixed with I believe black moon sand (from when I initially started the tank), mopani, oak, Japanese maple, and mini catapa leaves, and a single small apisto hut. Where does this massive GH swing come from?

Water chances are ~20% every 2-3 weeks (things are going quite well in this tank so I have been taking the approach of minimal disruption, which seems to be yielding results...)

Other parameters: 

KH- 8 (tap is 6)
TDS- 290ppm
NO3- 0
PO4- 0
pH- 7.3
Temp 26C (~79F)


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Grobbins48 said:


> Maybe someone can help me understand this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If it’s been a rapid change I can’t explain it. If it’s been steadily rising then it could be due to evaporation.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

vvDO said:


> If it’s been a rapid change I can’t explain it. If it’s been steadily rising then it could be due to evaporation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, blinding flash of the obvious... yes that is exactly what it is. Evaporation with top offs. Thanks you!

Guess I better think about my water changes and how I can balance them with keeping the water stained a bit.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

*29 Gallon Blackwater Journey*



Grobbins48 said:


> Wow, blinding flash of the obvious... yes that is exactly what it is. Evaporation with top offs. Thanks you!
> 
> Guess I better think about my water changes and how I can balance them with keeping the water stained a bit.



You can always make sure you top off with R/O, a lid definitely helps reduce evaporation. A larger water change can also help then of course you’ll have a harder time keeping your water “stained.” Next waterchange instead of full tap you can add some RO or distilled water in with the new water.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

vvDO said:


> You can always make sure you top off with R/O, a lid definitely helps reduce evaporation. A larger water change can also help then of course you’ll have a harder time keeping your water “stained.” Next waterchange instead of full tap you can add some RO or distilled water in with the new water.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have seen some of the RO setups on this forum.... and if I know myself well enough I'll goo all out and swap to RO for my high tech tank too! Haha. Na, I won't do that now.

Thought about distilled water. Could be a buck or two a week to top off with it- ot horrible, but not ideal.

But I was thinking I could just be better with my weekly water changes and use some Rooibos tea at every change to stain the water back. See how that works out for a few weeks (or until I give up on the water being stained...).


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Testing some photo transfer from my phone to Imgur to see if there is better quality. Stuff in the water is frozen BBS feeding.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> Testing some photo transfer from my phone to Imgur to see if there is better quality. Stuff in the water is frozen BBS feeding.


magnificent color on that little beauty :wink2:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Discusluv said:


> magnificent color on that little beauty :wink2:


+1.

Nice fish and nice pic!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Thank you both! This tank has been so much more enjoyable than I initially thought! 

Now it makes me want to try a different apisto species one day- not yet though, still have a lot of time with these guys!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> Thank you both! This tank has been so much more enjoyable than I initially thought!
> 
> Now it makes me want to try a different apisto species one day- not yet though, still have a lot of time with these guys!




Just means you need biotope another tank. 


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Just means you need biotope another tank.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yikes... I think two tanks is plenty for me at this time.... though it would be fun!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Don't go down the rabbit hole with RO like I did! LOL I started getting 5g at a time from the grocery store and it was like $1 or $1.25 for that. I tested their RO water and it was a nice 0-2TDS. However wouldn't be too bad as a possibility for top offs and to drop your GH a bit.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Don't go down the rabbit hole with RO like I did! LOL I started getting 5g at a time from the grocery store and it was like $1 or $1.25 for that. I tested their RO water and it was a nice 0-2TDS. However wouldn't be too bad as a possibility for top offs and to drop your GH a bit.


Oh yeah... There is no way I can go full on RO, just not possible right now. I prefer the decent tap water we have here because it is quite easy to do water changes. Hook to hose up to the downstairs bathroom faucet and drain the old water out the window into the garden. 

My philosophy has been work with the water I have (like I said, its pretty good water too) vs. trying to chase anything.

I MAY grab some larger RO water if I can find multiple gallons for a buck or two for top-offs... We will see. I can always just stick with weekly water changes and add some Rooibos tea (just bought some, but have yet to try it) to keep chasing the blackwater look.

On the bright side, the fry are doing well. The other batch of eggs didn't make it, but I am not surprised or overly upset about it. Really want to see these 10 or so fry grow out and go from there.

Pencil fish fry (found one) is really growing too!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

A short video of the tank I put together. Enjoy!


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

The water in this part of the country is immaculate. It's probably as close as you are going to get to RO water out of a tap.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Just sharing some love for the blackwater today. Added some Rooibos tea this water change, like the look!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> Just sharing some love for the blackwater today. Added some Rooibos tea this water change, like the look!




How’s this tank and the fry doing?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Things are going well, still really enjoying this tank. The fry are raising up, about 10 or so have made it. Super slow growers, feeding frozen cyclops and daphnia with some other smaller pellet forms. One has learned where the pencil fish spawn and eats those eggs (from the amazon frogbit) and is twice the size of the others. There is also one pencil fish fry that has made it through. 

Dad fish just goes about his day but does not enjoy when I get close, always swims off quickly. Mom on the other hand is rather aggressive and has forgotten the 10 fry are hers! They have spawned at least twice since this batch, with no success. She continues to guard her territory though.

Here are a few pics


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Good deal man! I recently got Coral Reds and love them.










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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Good deal man! I recently got Coral Reds and love them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow those are absolutely beautiful!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> Wow those are absolutely beautiful!




They look better now. That picture was taken shortly after they were added to the tank. Hopefully they will spawn for me. 


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> They look better now. That picture was taken shortly after they were added to the tank. Hopefully they will spawn for me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are they they only things in there? For mine they constantly spawn in the Amazon Frogbit, daily. Did yours arrive okay and grow well?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> Are they they only things in there? For mine they constantly spawn in the Amazon Frogbit, daily. Did yours arrive okay and grow well?




I got mine from the local auction e few weeks ago. They were full grown and sourced donated to the club for auction from The Wet Spot. I paid $70 for 6 of them and won the other 6 in a live fish raffle. The only other fish in the tank are a female Panduro and a male Abacaxis. I should have put them in this tank.










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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> I got mine from the local auction e few weeks ago. They were full grown and sourced donated to the club for auction from The Wet Spot. I paid $70 for 6 of them and won the other 6 in a live fish raffle. The only other fish in the tank are a female Panduro and a male Abacaxis. I should have put them in this tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome! Hopefully they will spawn and give you a whole tank full!

Dwarf water lettuce (forgot that was what I sent) is looking awesome, very nice tank!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Was traveling all week, and just got home- the babies are having babies now! Little eco system going here. Don't expect any of these to make it, I think they are her first batch. Looks like 5 or so are by her today. 

All else is going well. Enjoying the tank daily!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Just a few pictures to share


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Good looking fish and nice pics!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Greggz said:


> Good looking fish and nice pics!


Thanks! I know we joke about a second tank for you, but I will say having a second low maintenance tank is pretty awesome. 

Having the two hi tech tanks last year was way too much for me to balance with time. First I was new to planted tanks, inexperienced, and balancing two setups which had different needs did not work well. I was trying to run both tanks at the exact same parameters, and I think we have all learned that each tank is unique!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> I think we have all learned that each tank is unique!


Biggest "myth" circulating through the hobby IMO. Every tank is different, and we need to stop following processes 100% as another person does. 

My ultimate goal from having more than 1 tank set up, is to follow different paths with each. 

Modified / Custom EI (whatever we want to call it) with high CO2, high light, inert substrate large water changes with one tank. Control everything about the tank. 

Lean / PPS dosing with moderate CO2, moderate lighting, nutrient rich (or not) substrate and moderate water changes on another tank. Have some "buffer" in terms of maintenance, and let things be instead of controlling every parameter. 

That would be my personal "ideal" situation, but is it for everyone? No... having two of the exact same setups would get tiresome, and each tank would remove the love for the other. Running 2 tanks with completely different setups would always keep my interest alive and well, because each tank would have its own requirements, challenges and successes.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I feel that biotope tanks are highly underrated and at some point everyone should try having one. There’s almost zero maintenance and it might be the most natural tank you could own. I love mine so much I created a second. 


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Quagulator said:


> Biggest "myth" circulating through the hobby IMO. Every tank is different, and we need to stop following processes 100% as another person does.
> 
> My ultimate goal from having more than 1 tank set up, is to follow different paths with each.
> 
> ...


That's basically where I'm at and I'm still confused most of the time heh


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> I feel that biotope tanks are highly underrated and at some point everyone should try having one. There’s almost zero maintenance and it might be the most natural tank you could own. I love mine so much I created a second.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have been thinking this more and more! This has been a joy to watch grow, but also has be thinking what is the next style/ fish to try out? 

No more tanks.... two is my limit... for now!!!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Those tanks are looking fantastic! Biotopes are what originally got me into keeping plants and it's nice to see someone on the forums here keeping systems with a more natural aesthetic.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Phil Edwards said:


> it's nice to see someone on the forums here keeping systems with a more natural aesthetic.


What?! You're trying to tell us fruit stands don't look natural? 

Crazy talk....


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Quagulator said:


> What?! You're trying to tell us fruit stands don't look natural?
> 
> Crazy talk....


I'm wit ya Quag!!:wink2:


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Gotta keep one of each!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

I will say.... telling a family member / friend that is visiting that the fruit stand is comprised of 100% living plants really shocks them... To the average person they are truly amazed that all our plants are living things, not artificial. To us however, we seem to focus all the negatives, or at least they jump out to me more so while I'm looking at my tanks.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Quagulator said:


> I will say.... telling a family member / friend that is visiting that the fruit stand is comprised of 100% living plants really shocks them... To the average person they are truly amazed that all our plants are living things, not artificial. To us however, we seem to focus all the negatives, or at least they jump out to me more so while I'm looking at my tanks.


Is that salt water?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Phil Edwards said:


> Is that salt water?


LOL that is the first question I get every single time!

Then it's a discussion/explanation that is met with a blank stare. When I show them my RO water set up, well their eyes are about glazed over by then. 

Most end up thinking I am pretty much nuts..........which come to think of it is pretty much the case.:wink2:


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

My family calls my house the "Jungle house." Four tanks totaling 300 gallons. Plus 3 cats, and a dog (all rescues). 

They all shake their heads at me as if I am crazy.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I get all the above-

"Those are fake plants right?"
"Those fish are so colorful they must be salt water"
"You put carbon dioxide in your tank?? Huh???"

And to the blackwater tank when there are lots of roots:
"That tank looks haunted"
"You add tea to the tank?"

Haha!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

And then they ask how much it costs....


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> And then they ask how much it costs....


And we never, ever do that math...


Or they ask the time commitment, specifically the high tech.... and cannot believe I would spend a couple hours a week!

Therapeutic I tell them...


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> And then they ask how much it costs....


 Oh boy!
"You paid 30.00 ea. for a Tetra!" :surprise:


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Discusluv said:


> Oh boy!
> "You paid 30.00 ea. for a Tetra!" :surprise:


You paid $300 for a discus?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

The 29 Gallon Blackwater Journey will be coming to an end soon.....





And will be replaced by the 40 Gallon Breeder! Haha I had you for a moment there. It will be the same thread, with a new and improved title! I am really excited as this will be my first ever 18 inch deep (front to back) tank! I cannot wait to get it set up and scape it.

That being said, I still need to build the stand for it, which will likely be a simple 2 x 4 stand, and I am thinking of making a shelf on the bottom for 2 5.5 or 10 gallon tanks (QT, Fry tanks, etc...) but who knows!

Planning on using Plasti Dip to pant the back black and use the same SunSun canister filter I have on it right now.

Here is where some input from the community would be helpful. I need to get a light for the 36" tank, as the DA FSPEC I have right now is 30". As I see it I have a few option:


Use the 30" light and find a way to mount it
Buy a 36" bar light and call it a day
Find a nice looking, but not too $$$$$$ pendant light

Part of me want to go with a pendant light of some sort, but really don't want to break the bank, as this is a low tech, not really planted, blackwater setup. A light that produces some shimmer effect in the water would also be pretty cool to have. If I do this then I can use the 30" light I have under the tank if I decided to go the 5.5 or 10 gal route as well.

Would love to hear some thoughts, opinions, etc.

The conversion will be over a few weeks, to stay tuned for more updates!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Grobbins48 said:


> The 29 Gallon Blackwater Journey will be coming to an end soon.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Love the 40B footprint! Just wish they made more 36” t5HO options.

If you like the current light, then I would purchase the same in 36”. A 36” light will give slightly higher PAR.

With the added width you may want a 2nd light anyway to get better coverage.

Before I went T5HO, I had 2x LED light strips on my 40B (they were a single strip of higher wattage LEDs with lenses) and I still felt like it needed a 3rd. I think an FSPEC light bar is much thicker and no lens so it may suffice for your low tech needs and if not, well you can add the 30” light.




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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Grobbins48 said:


> Here is where some input from the community would be helpful. I need to get a light for the 36" tank, as the DA FSPEC I have right now is 30". As I see it I have a few option:
> 
> 
> Use the 30" light and find a way to mount it
> ...


 My first thought was a 36" 3W beamswork so went to find some examples (or close)
Found this:






Keep in mind shimmer is a property of surface agitation..Very little in the above vid..
Fun site............

https://www.top-aquariums.com/en/example-no-32044_uid32044.html


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

vvDO said:


> Love the 40B footprint! Just wish they made more 36” t5HO options.
> 
> If you like the current light, then I would purchase the same in 36”. A 36” light will give slightly higher PAR.
> 
> ...


Really excited for that footprint. 

As for two lights I don't think I need the spread with being essentially some floating plants. My thought was then keep the light more towards the front 1/3 of the tank and help shadow out the back as well.


jeffkrol said:


> My first thought was a 36" 3W beamswork so went to find some examples (or close)
> Found this:
> https://youtu.be/Otug-gAYvdI
> 
> ...


Thanks for chiming in on this! After I posted this I looked at the tank currently and noticed the shimmer in the back with the surface agitation. The 3W is one I have no tried before- currently have the DA FSPEC and 1W DHL on my 55 gallon high tech which is a pretty powerful setup (145 PAR at substrate with no glass lids). I suppose I could grab a dimmer if needed.

I'll poke around that site for some inspiration, thanks for sharing.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

@jeffkrol I have looked all over Amazon and the bay, and cannot find the 3W Beamswork- the only thing that I can find are these

https://www.amazon.com/Element-Brig...=beamswork+3W&qid=1560869858&s=gateway&sr=8-2

But I still suppose 3W is a LOT of power for a blackwater tank. Perhaps a 1W DHL or something like that would work better. What I want to avoid is having the Red and Green spots of light the DS FSPEC gives me right now- Terrible blending of the colors.

I do not notice it so much in my 55 gallon with the DHLand DA FSPEC, but right now on my 29 gallon because the way it is scaped and has wood so high up, it get a red dot on it.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

293083363022
This will work.......
It's err "used" but...
USED DA 90 6500K BeamsworkLED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant MediumHigh
go to topdogsellers store..
$37.75...

113699082449
dimmer/timer (believe the above works w/ it ) will add $15


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> 293083363022
> This will work.......
> It's err "used" but...
> USED DA 90 6500K BeamsworkLED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant MediumHigh
> ...


That's a good price--I got exactly the same thing new (36") for $54.95. I'm jealous! 

Word of warning: the timer comes with completely useless directions apparently badly translated from Chinese. Tried emailing the seller with my questions, and got back a very cryptic answer to one of the questions, but not the others. After multiple emails and still not getting all my questions answered, went to the hundreds of products reviews complaining about the directions and was finally able to dig up some answers. So be prepared for that. Basically it's got one on/off cycle for the actinic blue lights, and another for the white/red/green lights--that's it. So if you want to have multiple cycles (say a midday siesta) or dim the lights further, this device won't do it. 

Also, don't make the newbie mistake I did and leave the lights on at full strength 8hrs/day thinking that'll help get your plants established--I ended up with a huge algae outbreak as a result. Backed it down to 5hrs with just the white/green/red, and it's clearing up.

Good luck!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Did a little work on the 40 over the weekend. It is looking pretty good!

Still unsure on lighting- I may build a hood and use some Phillip's hue RBGW strips I have and see how they look.

I did place the DHL 6500K over the 29 gallon for a while to see how it looked, and it was very yellow and green... strange. Looks much nicer on my 55 gallon. My guess is the floating plants made the light more green. The DA FSPEC has the 10,000K whites and look much better.

We will see!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

That's a nice looking lawn in the photos! >

What's your dosing schedule for it??


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> That's a nice looking lawn in the photos! >
> 
> 
> 
> What's your dosing schedule for it??


Front load macros and micros!!!! No water chages....

On a more serious note....

Been keeping up with it this year, and lots of rain helps!

I had some left over Scott's products that I am running through before trying some of the things we talked about in @Greggz thread. Did an application of Scott's Tripple Threat in April, and a couple weeks ago Weed n' Feed I had left over (some broadleaf the triple threat missed).

My goal, as we mentioned in Greggz, is to get it nice and think this year to minimize herbicides next year.

Was thinking of trying something like milorginate or something next year; just not sure if it is going to stink up the yard! Then I can spot treated herbicides. We do get slammed with dandelions in UNY though...


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

Pretty excited for the new setup! Will be following along from here and going back to read the previous posts.

My parents recently got rid of the old piano so I now have space for a second tank. I'm thinking I will give blackwater a try as well as I love how mysterious it looks so I'll probably be getting lots of inspiration from this journal.


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## Fish Guy84 (Jan 3, 2019)

I enjoyed this post very much great job. Also what were those yellow fish ?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Phil Edwards said:


> Is that salt water?


So had to pull this quote again- talking with a bunch of co-workers last night and they mentioned when we do video Skype they always enjoyed the fish tanks in the back and wanted to know what changed each call! Again a few could not believe that my tanks were not saltwater with all the colors of the plants and the fish! 



chicken.nublet said:


> Pretty excited for the new setup! Will be following along from here and going back to read the previous posts.
> 
> My parents recently got rid of the old piano so I now have space for a second tank. I'm thinking I will give blackwater a try as well as I love how mysterious it looks so I'll probably be getting lots of inspiration from this journal.


Thanks for the kind words and glad you will be following along. Having these different type of tanks is an absolute blast for me!



Fish Guy84 said:


> I enjoyed this post very much great job. Also what were those yellow fish ?


The tank has apistogramma agassizii fire red (10 total, two are the original parents), pencil fish, and otocinclus.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Any experience with or thoughts on this light?

LED Aquarium Lighting Nano Fish Tank Light for Saltwater Freshwater Planted Tank Coral Reef (Freshwater Asta 20) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075H47991/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_AKHeDbZBQ9CSK

Price is good but CRI seems a bit low? I like the overall look of the light.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Grobbins48 said:


> Any experience with or thoughts on this light?
> 
> LED Aquarium Lighting Nano Fish Tank Light for Saltwater Freshwater Planted Tank Coral Reef (Freshwater Asta 20) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075H47991/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_AKHeDbZBQ9CSK
> 
> Price is good but CRI seems a bit low? I like the overall look of the light.


The first sentence about providing the most PAR/PUR to corals is a big turn-off. The spectra lights like that put off aren't great for planted tanks in general. The spectra most corals are adapted to are different than the ones plants are so those lights tend to be heavy on the blue/far blue/purple bands. It's smart to be skeptical of lights that are labeled for plant use if the description includes others as well. 90% of the time they're really for salt water but the manufacturer has included plants for marketing because the light will grow most generic plants ok, but isn't optimal for them. Generic "Freshwater" only lights are often better for plants than "Saltwater and Freshwater" lights. I once had to come up with a stock plant setting/program for what was essentially a reef light for a former employer and it was crap. I'd never recommend that for plant use even though I was the one who did it. LOL


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

What about the freshwater 120? One of those could give a cool look for blackwater tank.

Need to see if it has a good return policy if I don't like it though!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

More progress...


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Some more progress today


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

40 gallon scape take 1. Thoughts please?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I like it. It will look way better once you get some leaf litter in there. 


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> I like it. It will look way better once you get some leaf litter in there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! I am with you. All of that will happen once I settle on a scape. I like how the three points look so far, and I think I will enjoy the pool filter sand this go around vs. BDBS.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> 40 gallon scape take 1. Thoughts please?


 Looks great! I didnt know you were starting another blackwater tank. :smile2:

Whats the plan for this one?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Looks great! I didnt know you were starting another blackwater tank. :smile2:
> 
> Whats the plan for this one?


Likely to replace the 29 gallon... but still unsure of stocking. I have the apistogramma, pencil fish, and some Otos in the 29 now- but this is 40 gallons!! Haha


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

This is the 29 as of right now.... Haha


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> Likely to replace the 29 gallon... but still unsure of stocking. I have the apistogramma, pencil fish, and some Otos in the 29 now- but this is 40 gallons!! Haha


 Okay, nice!
Well, you could put in a nice group of blackwater tetras.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Okay, nice!
> Well, you could put in a nice group of blackwater tetras.


Yeah, I was thinking of something like that- and then thinking I could keep two tanks... ha!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> Yeah, I was thinking of something like that- and then thinking I could keep two tanks... ha!


 Thats a much better idea.
:wink2: Now your thinking like a resourceful aquarium-keeper with MTS.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Just love the way the morning sun is hitting this tank!

Photo does not do the shimmer effect justice here.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Water change and added some pebbles around. Getting ready to move the fish over from the 29. Probably will break that tank down and run this one in its place. 

Also, I did decide to purchase an Asta 20 Freshwater off Amazon. For my purpose this light is so far pretty awesome so far. Great shimmer effect, especially with the 90 degree lens installed. One light gives a very good 'sunlight peering through the trees' effect to it. To completely light the tank I would need a second one. I'll hold off on ordering that one for a bit and see how this single one goes.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I think they like their new home!


What type of tetra school would you guys add?


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Grobbins48 said:


> I think they like their new home!
> 
> 
> What type of tetra school would you guys add?




Glowlights for the win!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I like Glow Lights as they’re not shy and have some as dithers in the Norberti tank. Embers are great but there’s no contrast in color between them and your Fire Reds. I really like the look of Loreto tetras but they are probably a bit harder to find. 


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

vvDO said:


> Glowlights for the win!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Nlewis said:


> I like Glow Lights as they’re not shy and have some as dithers in the Norberti tank. Embers are great but there’s no contrast in color between them and your Fire Reds. I really like the look of Loreto tetras but they are probably a bit harder to find.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was thinking glow light initially.... then I started thinking rummy nose. What does everyone think about them?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

They’re awesome and I totally forgot about them. I had them in the 40 and loved them. They school pretty tightly as well. 


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Some suggestions:

Paracheirodon simulans " Green neon" tetra
Aphyocharax rathbuni "Green Fire" tetra
Hyphessobrycon loretoensis "Loreto" Tetra
Hemigrammus rubrostriatus "Red-Stripe" tetra
Carnegiella strigata “Peru” "Marble Hatchet fish"


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Some suggestions:
> 
> Paracheirodon simulans " Green neon" tetra
> Aphyocharax rathbuni "Green Fire" tetra
> ...


Thank you! There are some good choices there. 

I'll need to see what is available, but I really like the Green Fire, Rummy Nose, Glow Light, and even Green Neon

I have some figuring out to do!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Went with 20 neons today. They look absolutely amazing.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Neons always look like little jewels in a black-water set-up. Their coloration takes on maximum effect in the tannin stained water. Such a difference to the anemic version you see in high-light/high-tech tanks.
Absolutely beautiful.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Neons always look like little jewels in a black-water set-up. Their coloration takes on maximum effect in the tannin stained water. Such a difference to the anemic version you see in high-light/high-tech tanks.
> 
> Absolutely beautiful.


Could not have said this better myself. Sums it up perfectly!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Still need to change the title here


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## PurdueGK (May 16, 2015)

Really nice!!! Those neons look amazing in there!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Few after the water change today.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

That is how to use white sand.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Is there a style or keyword name for this type of planted tank?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Streetwise said:


> Is there a style or keyword name for this type of planted tank?


This is a Blackwater tank, sort of south American biotope, but not a true biotope.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Everyone is doing well, though I am now suspecting that all the 'fry' are female. Still pretty smallish and staying orange with no real purple or pointed fins on dorsal or tail. Still a fantastic tank that is wonderful to enjoy!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Always a great sign when there is breeding activity in a tank!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Trip to the local fish store to grab some panda gara's for the 55 ended up with an additional purchase of 9 pigmay corys. 

These guys are really neat so far. It is early on, but the school quite right, and are middle water column most of the time.














































Here are a few other random shots


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The tank is looking fabulous! Good to see you- haven't seen you in a while, hope all is treating you well.

The fish are all sure thriving in this black-water set-up


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> The tank is looking fabulous! Good to see you- haven't seen you in a while, hope all is treating you well.
> 
> 
> 
> The fish are all sure thriving in this black-water set-up


Thanks! It is good to be back a bit more. Slowed things down in the summertime, enjoying the beautiful upstate New York weather, but now we are getting a bit cooler!

Making this tank has been a huge positive in the hobby for me. Such a peaceful, calming, and natural feeling tank. 

I have been poking around the forum the past few days and really like your 9 galling setup. Future inspiration perhaps!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks! It is good to be back a bit more. Slowed things down in the summertime, enjoying the beautiful upstate New York weather, but now we are getting a bit cooler!
> 
> Making this tank has been a huge positive in the hobby for me. Such a peaceful, calming, and natural feeling tank.
> 
> I have been poking around the forum the past few days and really like your 9 galling setup. Future inspiration perhaps!


 Its good that you were able to take advantage of the good weather and get some nature in. 



Anytime an aspect of the hobby gives more peacefulness and calm than stress it is a good thing. I am getting that lately with my shrimp tanks. Much more hands-off than my fish tanks. 

The Fluvel flex tank has been fun. Love it on my kitchen counter.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Its good that you were able to take advantage of the good weather and get some nature in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll be sure to keep following along!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Deep cleaning today. Keeps things nice and fresh!


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

I love this. 
Does it photograph as it looks? I am interested if it is truly the dark, because it's amazing. I'll have to do one of these designs in the future!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Jamo33 said:


> I love this.
> Does it photograph as it looks? I am interested if it is truly the dark, because it's amazing. I'll have to do one of these designs in the future!


Thank you! It is actually pretty close to the pictures. The back glass is painted with plasi dip, which has been by far my favorite black background. No water marks, and a deep black is exactly what I wanted. 

This is right after a water change, so it is much more clear (less tannins) than right before the new water.

With the single spotlight I use I cannot see the hardware on the back on the tank, even in the middle of the day.


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Well it's amazing.
I love the spotlight effect and the design is spot on. Added to the wish list!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nothing much to really update here- things are going well and no changes. Continue to enjoy this one daily!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

This is a design that highlights the fish-- puts them in bas relief!
Thanks for sharing-- I always enjoy your updates. 
And Happy Holiday to you and yours


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Hope everyone's new year is off to a good start! With my new 75 gallon high tech running and a new plant order on the way, I needed to find a place for the Java Fern. Looks pretty good here!


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

Is that a Kessil pendant?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

TheUnseenHand said:


> Is that a Kessil pendant?


No, it is an Asta 20. Surprisingly strong and affordable light. I line dimmer and comes with a 90° lenses as well. I just removed the lenses today. 

I have been meaning to post a thread with some PAR readings. When I do I'll post it here too.

LED Aquarium Lighting Nano Fish Tank Light for Saltwater Freshwater Planted Tank Coral Reef (Freshwater Asta 20) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075H47991/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_jvteEb14HP59E


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

I was gonna say, that's a lot of light for a Java Fern!

I'd kinda like to replace the light I currently have on the fry tank. This might be a good option.


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## Yaboihunt (Mar 27, 2019)

I need a big java fern like that for the 75 I just upgraded to!


YaBoiHunt


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

For those interested here is the info on the Asta 20. Measurements were taken under the light, with fresh water, 16 inches deep and the light 8 inches from the surface.

Interesting the impact the 90 degree lens has on the PAR, but expected. I just moved from running the 90 lens to no lens.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Current situation- pretty relaxing!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

That is one fantastic picture!!!

Looks like a great place to hang out.

Great job!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Greggz said:


> That is one fantastic picture!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Gregg. Things are just looking really good tonight, so I had to share and show a little love to the blackwater journal!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Not a high quality photo due to lighting, but thought it was cool to see 10 of the 12 otos together right before lights out. They really enjoy being part of a larger group!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

During water change today I added some fresh sand to the tank. I have been fighting a little BGA between the super high light when I used the 90° lens and the low nitrates (tested near 0 NO3 and PO4 pre water changes- added about 6 and 2 respectively).

Here is the interesting part. BGA showing and spreading faster than in have ever seen! Treated with Ultra Life....




















And how the tank is looking right now


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

All looking beautiful! 

The little bit of BBA just lets me know you are not perfect. [ Because your tanks always look so perfect to me.] Someday when I finally get Co2 on my 180 I will be messaging you...


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> All looking beautiful!
> 
> 
> 
> The little bit of BBA just lets me know you are not perfect. [ Because your tanks always look so perfect to me.] Someday when I finally get Co2 on my 180 I will be messaging you...


Thank you so much for the kind words! Definitely not perfect, but appreciate the compliment. Looking forward to seeing you 180 progress! What a monster of a tank!


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## AdamTill (Jan 22, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> Not a high quality photo due to lighting, but thought it was cool to see 10 of the 12 otos together right before lights out. They really enjoy being part of a larger group!


They’re really underrated fish I think. I just setup a 29 gal with 17 otos in it (species tank) and they’re so much fun when they feel comfortable. The shoal up, play in the skimmer outflow in the evening, and are generally really active. One of my favs.

Great tanks btw!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Just straight chillin'


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

You got one in focus..........Great shot!

Figuring out the macro any better??


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Greggz said:


> You got one in focus..........Great shot!
> 
> 
> 
> Figuring out the macro any better??


Here is the funny part... it's just the phone with no lens!!!! I just zoomed in and took the shot!

I just happen to see this guy hanging out and didnt want to miss the photo opportunity!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Grobbins48 said:


> Here is the funny part... it's just the phone with no lens!!!! I just zoomed in and took the shot!
> 
> I just happen to see this guy hanging out and didnt want to miss the photo opportunity!


LOL that IS funny.

I thought for sure it was the macro.

Oh well, just goes to show the regular old phone camera is pretty darn capable.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Greggz said:


> Oh well, just goes to show the regular old phone camera is pretty darn capable.


Yup, exactly my thought! I'll still play around with the macro, and for other things in the summertime, but for quick shots the phone still does great work.


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## Thelongsnail (Dec 2, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


> For those interested here is the info on the Asta 20. Measurements were taken under the light, with fresh water, 16 inches deep and the light 8 inches from the surface.
> 
> Interesting the impact the 90 degree lens has on the PAR, but expected. I just moved from running the 90 lens to no lens.


Just wanted to say thanks for posting the Asta's PAR readings, I've removed the lenses on mine now and can seemingly run at full-light again without algal insanity. Never even thought of removing the lenses, much appreciated!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Thelongsnail said:


> Just wanted to say thanks for posting the Asta's PAR readings, I've removed the lenses on mine now and can seemingly run at full-light again without algal insanity. Never even thought of removing the lenses, much appreciated!


Very glad to hear it was helpful!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Cool part of having the high tech tank is plenty of plants to stock this tank with!

I did add some purigen to make this more of a Clearwater tank for now. Added one packet last week. Still had tannins by end of the week, so I added a second packet. We will see how it does.

Add something like 6ppm NO3 and 2ppm PO4 after water change.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Hygrophila kompakt is absolutely rocking in this tank! Most of the plants are actually doing quite well for me doing nothing but dumping in the above posted ferts in the tank. Who would have thought what low tech and little attention can accomplish! Haha

Such a simple and enjoyable tank.

I'll run this a few more months then may switch things up again. Fun to have a 40 breeder to mess around with! 

Only issue is fighting stubborn BGA ever once in a while. Just so strange to me...


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Wow... when did this become a low tech planted tank???


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

That is looking really good!

Healthy plants...well placed....and I even like the shadows!

Well done!


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## MeatWithGravy (Oct 16, 2013)

This is gorgeous (post #170). Lightyears beyond me. And gorgeous.*

*I had intended to quote the pic here. But my Post Preview suggested that had I done so, my reply was going to include a massive version of the photo. 

Anyway, keep up the amazing work you buncha superhumans!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Greggz said:


> That is looking really good!
> 
> Healthy plants...well placed....and I even like the shadows!
> 
> Well done!


Thanks Gregg! It really is a fun tank! Now the hard part will be to no inject CO2 into it... ha! Part of me wants to try a true, scaped nature style aquarium. The hard part is that the mopani is leaching tannins like crazy still. Even with two purigen packets I still get stained water!



MeatWithGravy said:


> This is gorgeous (post #170). Lightyears beyond me. And gorgeous.*
> 
> *I had intended to quote the pic here. But my Post Preview suggested that had I done so, my reply was going to include a massive version of the photo.
> 
> Anyway, keep up the amazing work you buncha superhumans!


Thank you for the kind words! I have truly been enjoying this tank, minus the BGA that hits from time to time... oh well!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Grobbins48 said:


> Thanks Gregg! It really is a fun tank! Now the hard part will be to no inject CO2 into it... ha! Part of me wants to try a true, scaped nature style aquarium. The hard part is that the mopani is leaching tannins like crazy still. Even with two purigen packets I still get stained water!
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the kind words! I have truly been enjoying this tank, minus the BGA that hits from time to time... oh well!


If you do put CO2 in it, give it just a 1bpm type of amount, just to boost plant growth a touch. I was thinking about doing this with a 10g I have, unless I turn it into a brackish tank for opae ula shrimp first LOL


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> If you do put CO2 in it, give it just a 1bpm type of amount, just to boost plant growth a touch. I was thinking about doing this with a 10g I have, unless I turn it into a brackish tank for opae ula shrimp first LOL


So I am thinking of putting some work and thought into this tank for the first time in a while. I have an extra flow meter, diffuse, check valve, tubing, etc. that I need to turn the CO2 on for this tank.

I feel like a deep cleaning, rescape, etc. and adding the CO2, without blasting more than say 50 PAR would be a neat experience.

That being said, I need to figure some things out, as I will use one CO2 tank and regulator. Currently my 75 gallon utilizes a pH controller, so I need to dial in the CO2 flow rate so it does not bounce off the controller as often shutting the CO2 off.... 

I do have two solenoids, so I could set this up that the pH controller still flips on and off as needed for the 75, but I need to understand the impact (fluid dynamics of compressed CO2) of the flow rate possible increasing in the 40 gallon if the 75 gallon turns off.

I'll do some research (didn't do well in fluid dynamics in college!!:laugh2 and probably start a new thread on that topic.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Grobbins48 said:


> So I am thinking of putting some work and thought into this tank for the first time in a while. I have an extra flow meter, diffuse, check valve, tubing, etc. that I need to turn the CO2 on for this tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My best guess would be is it's not gonna be stable with two sources or the CO2 being used. I would think a pair of regulators would be needed. I've wondered myself the idea of using one CO2 tank and then having an adapter/splitter so you could run two regulators off of one tank. That way you have control of exactly what you want each tank to be. If the pH controller wasn't in use for the one tank I would think it would work otherwise to split flow from one regulator. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> My best guess would be is it's not gonna be stable with two sources or the CO2 being used. I would think a pair of regulators would be needed. I've wondered myself the idea of using one CO2 tank and then having an adapter/splitter so you could run two regulators off of one tank. That way you have control of exactly what you want each tank to be. If the pH controller wasn't in use for the one tank I would think it would work otherwise to split flow from one regulator.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


That is exactly my though. With no pH controller I should be good, but the controller shutting flow to one tank would route all flow to the other tank. 

I'll try to do some research today on it- and I can always just do an experiment and see how the flow rate changes when one it shut off.

It should though just last like a garden hose. The more open openings you have the less flow for each opening. Closing one puts more flow to the others.

This will take some more work and fine tuning between the two tanks!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

So I decided to hook up CO2 to this tank today. I am working to fine tune my 75 gallon so that the pH controller won't need to turn the flow off through the day. With the two flow meters this should work well.

I am only running a bit of CO2, about 10cc/min right now. Lighting and ferts will remain the same for now, though I am contemplating getting another Asta 20.

The idea is just to give this tank a little boost, but not to push it too hard. If things settle in well I may get some other rhizome plants in the coming months.

Fish are doing well, and really enjoying the plants!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

CO2 is dialing in well today. Got a 1.2ish pH drop on about 10cc/min. Also dialed the 75 in a bit, and moved the pH controller on it to 6.3. Only hit it once today so far, so things are looking good initially.

I'll need to order some more ferts soon. GLA is who I used last time, and I saw they have some tissue cultures now. I may need to place and order for a few treats! 

What would everyone else add to this setup (another Asta 20 light will be added in a month or so)? Would love to hear thoughts!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

those asta's are dimmable correct? I would add another... but aim it to achieve the same visuals as what you've got going on now.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> those asta's are dimmable correct? I would add another... but aim it to achieve the same visuals as what you've got going on now.


Yes, dimmable. The second is on order, but will likely take a while to get in with the current shipping situation. I was thinking exactly the same thing- I don't want to blast with high powered light, and I enjoy the effect I have right now, but do want more of the tank to receive light in order to get some more plants going. Glad I have that Seneye to look at PAR levels when I do fire up two lights!

Thinking I may add some anubias and even dip into the buce game?

Figure I have some time for this tank to settle in with CO2, monitor ferts, and keep light the same.

More time to tinker with the tank these days... Also, tannins are all but gone- probably a mix of the wood running out and the purigen working. Also, since adding purigen and being more dilligent about no dead plant matter, leaf litter, etc. I have seen a complete reduction of any surface film! Now we are getting somewhere!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I need to clean the wood off in this tank. I did some scrubbing of the larger piece today, and took the front small piece out and scrubbed it in the sink.

I am beginning to think it may make the most sense to take all the wood out and give it a good scrub and spray down outside. This would help get some of the organics out of the tank too, and allow for a really good vacuum. Still debating doing this, but probably will go through with it.

I do like the look of the tank now, but I suppose a little rearranging wouldn't hurt either. 

The second light is still a few weeks out likely. Once that light comes in the dynamic may change a bit in the tank.

I have some Buce and anubias nana petite to add to the tank, which is why I really want to clean the wood off good. Don't need to superglue to algae!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I did go through with the absolutely massive clean and rescape this morning.

Each piece of wood was taken out and thoroughly scrubbed outside with a wire brush. Wow did it need it. Not sure if mopani is nor.ally like this, but a layer of gunk came off everything. I wish it was a bit nicer out and I would have used a power washer as well! Perhaps every 6 months or so this deep cleaning is needed. I'll try to scrub better weekly and see if that helps.

The substrate was another mess, and took about two full water changes to clean really well. Removed l litter and other organics to bring it back to uber clean conditions. I also removed a ton of the landscaping pebbles too. I may add some more back later (some remain mixed in), but for now I'll let it be. 










For the rescape, I wanted to flip the left and right of the scape. This is because of where I view it from, I wanted it open on the left to see the whole scape better.

The second light looks like it should be here on Monday, so that will help quite a bit. I'll play with the lights and PAR meter to strike a good balance. Not sure if I'll move back to the 90° lens with having too. We will see!

So here is where things are today. I am digging the vibe. The ludwigia in the middle may be substituted with something else (rotala?) once I have enough from the 75. 

For now I'll keep the buce on lava rock, especially after the experience I just had cleaning the wood. I still need to super glue them, but that can happen later.

For dosing, this is very low- still the same from low tech. Around 5ppm NO3 and 2ppm or so PO4. 

Fish are doing well. I am down to 5 pencil fish right now, and have lost s few oto's these past few weeks. The oto's were old though, had them 3 or so years. 

Apistogramma are doing well also. The one Male is HUGE! Everyone else is much smaller. I'll try to grab some fish pic later on!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

With two Asta 20's at 100%, and no lens I can get over 100PAR at the substrate! 

With some positioning and adjusting down to about 75% power I have it so the top of the buce on the right is around 80 PAR and 70 for the buce on the left.

I'll keep an eye on things and continue to play around. For fun later I'll throw the 90° lenses in and see what I can get. 

Like the look, really helps to brighten things up. I also brought the light to shine more forward and give a deeper background. More playing to come.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Good looking pic !


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> Good looking pic !


Thanks! Grabbed a few more!

Someone is poking out in this one!










Photo bombed me out of focus of the plants!









So I took some more fish ones...



















Back to plants!










And a full shot


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Great looking group of pics. The peeking out one is priceless!


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Nice upgrade! Seems the additional light was well worth it. Good thinking keeping the light closer to the front to allow the background to be more shaded, I'll bring that with me. Photos looks [email protected]


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Based on what you've posted today and previous posts, I just purchased a Asta 20 for the sump. It seems like it'd do well for what I want it to do, which is add light to keep a few plants alive that'll hopefully provide cover and retain food for the dwarf neon fry that are showing up in the sump. Let's just call it an fun impulse purchase!!

Great photos, really fun to look at. I really like how the Asta's really improved the lighting, everything "pops" out, nice job!


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## fmd87 (Jan 26, 2020)

I'm loving the roots of the from the lettuce. Mine end up dividing into smaller ones instead of growing long roots.


Grobbins48 said:


> Today (ish)
> 
> The tank has been wonderful, and I am really enjoying having it part of my hobby. It is a cool contrast to the high tech planted setup that is two feet from it. People am amazed at the difference when they visit.
> 
> ...


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

fmd87 said:


> I'm loving the roots of the from the lettuce. Mine end up dividing into smaller ones instead of growing long roots.


Thanks for the kind words. I really did enjoy the floating plants. If you are going through this whole journal you will be coming up on quite the transformation!

CO2 has been added, and I am going for more of a nature aquarium look. It has been great as a Blackwater, but I was ready to try a few new things, plants, etc! Who knows, maybe this will be a soil tank later this year??? Only time will tell!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I really liked this tank before, and the light makes it that much better. 

It has a very good "vibe"......very peaceful.

It will be interesting to see how things go with more light. Keep the updates coming.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Based on what you've posted today and previous posts, I just purchased a Asta 20 for the sump. It seems like it'd do well for what I want it to do, which is add light to keep a few plants alive that'll hopefully provide cover and retain food for the dwarf neon fry that are showing up in the sump. Let's just call it an fun impulse purchase!!
> 
> Great photos, really fun to look at. I really like how the Asta's really improved the lighting, everything "pops" out, nice job!


Thanks Ken! I think you will really like the Asts 20 for that. For a relatively inexpensive light it is quite versatile. Looking forward to your update on it! 



Greggz said:


> I really liked this tank before, and the light makes it that much better.
> 
> It has a very good "vibe"......very peaceful.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how things go with more light. Keep the updates coming.


Thanks Gregg! That was my idea with this one, a more peaceful and natural looking setup. Will be interesting to try a few new plant species- and neat when it fills in a bit.

The Java fern on the right has taken a beating the past couple of months. New leaves look good, but some of the older ones have black/brown spots and some algae on them. Seems like some were over shaded perhaps?

I am also thinking about what other plants I would want to try, and if I want to add a carpeting plant in the foreground or not. I have done Mini DHG and Monte Carlo in the past. Not sure what I want to do right now!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Looks great, Really liking this tank. I'm so glad I've got @Greggz as my guinea pig for the active soil and you @Grobbins48 as my Asta 20 guinea pig  I really want a countertop nano tank in the future while I piece together equipment for a larger tank and this is some great info to take in while in the planning phases >


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quick water change and a few additions...


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Back to back great pics...


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Looking for some feedback from the group on this: Should I plant a carpeting plant, and if so, what species would you go with?

I know the right side is a bit shaded, so It may not be a 100% carpet, but could fade out naturally on the sides.

Anyways, I have my initial thoughts, but would love to hear from everyone!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Honestly, I like the white sand. Overall it has more of the exotic island feel to it. More or less it has a nice left to right flow to it. I could see more color variations of Buce being added - kinda like exotic flowers.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

I like the light coloured sand too, maybe throw a patch or two of dwarf crypts like parva just to break it up a hair? Probably not needed as the plants in the middle / center start filling in though.... 


Actually a single, large plant of Helanthium reaching up from the dark back into the light would look pretty cool in my opinion (since you were asking for opinions  ), something like this:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Agreed, something like the pic above tucked in behind the Java fern would look nice.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> I like the light coloured sand too, maybe throw a patch or two of dwarf crypts like parva just to break it up a hair? Probably not needed as the plants in the middle / center start filling in though....
> 
> 
> Actually a single, large plant of Helanthium reaching up from the dark back into the light would look pretty cool in my opinion (since you were asking for opinions  ), something like this:


Okay... I like this idea with the small crypt in the front! I was thinking on incorporating something like that at some point- Once some of these new plants settle in and get a more 'final' placement, perhaps I'll add some parva. 

I do have a small bit of Helanthium bolivianum "angustifolius" panted right now, in front of the wood on the right. In the past this plant has done amazingly well for me, but the past 6 months or so have been a stuggle. Hopefully this will bounce back, as I agree that would look great!
@Immortal1 I like the idea of the buce all over- let's hope I have good luck with theses and can propagate them. If it does work, perhaps a couple more variety all around!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

This is the vibe I'm getting from the most recent pic. soon to more resemble the island as the plants fill in


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I loooveee the open sand. As Quag pictured above-- I get the feel of an island scape. 
Is this still a blackwater tank?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> I loooveee the open sand. As Quag pictured above-- I get the feel of an island scape.
> 
> Is this still a blackwater tank?


I like it! This is some good feedback!! I'll keep the island theme!

It has now 'converted' over to CO2 injected, and is no longer really Blackwater. 

I think now I am going for more of a nature style, George Farmer-esk tank. Lighting is not crazy high, so should be a fun setup.

What I like about this 40 breeder so far is all the possibilities! It is also pretty easy to redo vs. my 75 which has all the bows and barbs.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Did a water change, and some arranging I the tank. 

Glued the buce to a lava rock as well as the top of the wood. The Jade clump was in a bit more rough shape, and naturally came apart, so I took it as an opportunity to glue to to the tall part of the wood. Curious how it will do here.



















Overall things are looking positive since my time rescaping last week.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Grobbins48 said:


>



Looks like it is filling in nicely!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Looking very, very good.

Best pic yet!!


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Great photos! I like how the lighting shines on the plants and fish and leaves the background dark, it almost like it spot lights the key elements of the tank. Very nice.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Grobbins48 said:


>



Loving the new look.

Do you have a similar piece of wood as the bottom right piece that you can prop up against the left back side to cover the left rear tank seam. Would make it look like that branch was starting at the rear upper left through the center island plants then back out towards the right lower front corner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> Looks like it is filling in nicely!


Thanks Linn! Few more weeks and hopefully be pretty full!


Greggz said:


> Looking very, very good.
> 
> Best pic yet!!


Thanks Gregg- it's nice having this style to play with too!


Ken Keating1 said:


> Great photos! I like how the lighting shines on the plants and fish and leaves the background dark, it almost like it spot lights the key elements of the tank. Very nice.


Thanks Ken! That is exactly what I like about these Asta 20 lights. That picture is really close to what I see. The back is really backed out in person too. Very cool looking!


vvDO said:


> Loving the new look.
> 
> Do you have a similar piece of wood as the bottom right piece that you can prop up against the left back side to cover the left rear tank seam. Would make it look like that branch was starting at the rear upper left through the center island plants then back out towards the right lower front corner.
> 
> ...


Thanks! That would be a neat look, however, right now this is all I have for wood. Good things is I enjoy rescaping, so perhaps that is a future attempt!


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## Hujeta (Jan 26, 2020)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Great photos! I like how the lighting shines on the plants and fish and leaves the background dark, it almost like it spot lights the key elements of the tank. Very nice.


Agree with this, that last picture and the new lighting setup is dead on!


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

Love this whole journal

I've always wanted to try the low maintenance, blackwater type set up but I'm in love with stems and highlight. Like the transition that this tank went through

Yes, the 40 breeders are perfect dimensions 
any breeding happening in this tank or do you think the bright lights don't let it happen?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

monkeyruler90 said:


> Love this whole journal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you! Funny you should ask about breeding. There was one batch of eggs I found on the java fern when cleaning it off. Those obviously didn't stand a chance, but look what I found last night. Now, I am not hopeful in the slightest anything will make it, and I am not setup to try to breed, but it is good to see a healthy and happy tank!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Just another water change this week. Some BGA showing up so treated for it after cleaning. 

Overall things are going well. One strange thing is since adding CO2 the hygrophila kompakt has been melting some leaves. Seems like this plant is not a huge fan of change!


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## ProndFarms (Sep 3, 2012)

So glad I found this thread! I recently just added a 40B to my 'arsenal' of tanks and really was thinking 'clearwater' Apisto tank very very similar to what you have here. Tons of information, pictures, and even CO2.


As a side note, I am curious about your CO2 usage/regulation. I am currently planning to use my Apex controller on my 200g reef system to control both my 75g rainbow tank and this new 40B tank. I would need to find a regulator with a manifold and independent solenoids (that should be cheap...not), while the Apex will control the pH drop via each solenoid.


Additionally, I plan to breed, so I am going to go with pencilfish, but man do those neons look absolutely awesome!


Lastly - I was thinking about running just a simple AquaClear 70 HOB...do you think that's sufficient? I realllllly don't like canister filters, so I'm hoping the HOB will suffice.


Again, great job on both tanks!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

ProndFarms said:


> So glad I found this thread! I recently just added a 40B to my 'arsenal' of tanks and really was thinking 'clearwater' Apisto tank very very similar to what you have here. Tons of information, pictures, and even CO2.
> 
> 
> As a side note, I am curious about your CO2 usage/regulation. I am currently planning to use my Apex controller on my 200g reef system to control both my 75g rainbow tank and this new 40B tank. I would need to find a regulator with a manifold and independent solenoids (that should be cheap...not), while the Apex will control the pH drop via each solenoid.
> ...


If you have an Apex and can regulate the pH and have solenoid per tank that is fantastic! I only have the pH controller on my 75 gallon, so I am trying to fine tune my dwyer flow meters on each tank to not ping the CO2 shutoff level in the 75. Getting close. I also am trying to tune down the CO2 in the 40 breeder- I only have the one 10lb tank, and right now with shelter in place orders getting more CO2 would not be an essential activity- and this would really mess with my 75 gallon (not so worried about CO2 in the 40 breeder- but having a spare tank would be really nice now....).

My advice on the pencilfish to get them to breed is to have floating plants. Then were spawning every day when I had them. I only had one fry survive the tank, but the apistogramma learned where they spawned and learned to hunt the surface of the water.

I am sure an AquaClear would work fine- for filtration it really is to each their own. 

Good luck with the tank!


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## ProndFarms (Sep 3, 2012)

Grobbins48 said:


> If you have an Apex and can regulate the pH and have solenoid per tank that is fantastic! I only have the pH controller on my 75 gallon, so I am trying to fine tune my dwyer flow meters on each tank to not ping the CO2 shutoff level in the 75. Getting close. I also am trying to tune down the CO2 in the 40 breeder- I only have the one 10lb tank, and right now with shelter in place orders getting more CO2 would not be an essential activity- and this would really mess with my 75 gallon (not so worried about CO2 in the 40 breeder- but having a spare tank would be really nice now....).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great advice on the pencilfish, though I must admit I think I am looking forward to the Apistos breeding moreso!

Question on the flow meters as I am purchasing a regulator/post body. I'm used to having a needle valve - do these Dwyer flow meters replace the needle valves? Or can they/should they? If so, there are a ton of different models, is there one in particular I should be after?

Appreciate the help!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

ProndFarms said:


> Great advice on the pencilfish, though I must admit I think I am looking forward to the Apistos breeding moreso!
> 
> Question on the flow meters as I am purchasing a regulator/post body. I'm used to having a needle valve - do these Dwyer flow meters replace the needle valves? Or can they/should they? If so, there are a ton of different models, is there one in particular I should be after?
> 
> ...


On my 75 I am using a RMA 151 by Dwyer. This has its own needle valve and a 5-50 cc/min scale. There are lost of good discussions all over this board about flow meters, I suggest checking them out! 

As to the CO2 in the 40 breeder- I am making the call and cutting it off as of today. There is nothing that really is demanding for CO2 in the tanks right now, and I need to conserve the resources for my 75. I will also tune the two Asta 20 lights down- Maybe get PAR around 40 or so at substrate (play with Seneye later on today).

Perhaps when things lift I'll turn the CO2 back on (and keep an extra tank... lesson leaned).


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

It has been a while since an update, and in that time not too much had happened with this tank. Still not cooking with gas right now. We will see if I do go back to gas or not. I'll refill and grab a spare tank in the coming weeks so it will be an option at least. 

Did a bit of a cleanup today. Had some BGA to clean up, a bit annoying, but all is well.

Hope all are doing well though this madness, and trying to find a bit of peace with their tanks.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> It has been a while since an update, and in that time not too much had happened with this tank. Still not cooking with gas right now. We will see if I do go back to gas or not. I'll refill and grab a spare tank in the coming weeks so it will be an option at least.
> 
> Did a bit of a cleanup today. Had some BGA to clean up, a bit annoying, but all is well.
> 
> Hope all are doing well though this madness, and trying to find a bit of peace with their tanks.


 Love that green algae growing up that piece of wood near waterline. 

The tank looks great and the colors on those fish are spectacular. 

What are you feeding?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Love that green algae growing up that piece of wood near waterline.
> 
> The tank looks great and the colors on those fish are spectacular.
> 
> What are you feeding?


Thank you! I agree, the algae there is very nice. The buce did not do well at all in this tank (as we can see it is gone...) but is doing well in my 75.

Feeding for both tanks is either vibra bites or bug bites. I prefer the vibra bites. The fish love them both, but I do find the bug bites to be a bit messy.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Cooking with gas again... let's see what happens!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Gotta love good old (non) flammable gas ;-)


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I know it's not 'right' but I love the way this hygrophila kompakt is looking. Other may think I different but it's pretty cool to me!


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## butchblack (Oct 25, 2019)

Grobbins48 said:


> If you have an Apex and can regulate the pH and have solenoid per tank that is fantastic! I only have the pH controller on my 75 gallon, so I am trying to fine tune my dwyer flow meters on each tank to not ping the CO2 shutoff level in the 75. Getting close. I also am trying to tune down the CO2 in the 40 breeder- I only have the one 10lb tank, and right now with shelter in place orders getting more CO2 would not be an essential activity- and this would really mess with my 75 gallon (not so worried about CO2 in the 40 breeder- but having a spare tank would be really nice now....).
> 
> My advice on the pencilfish to get them to breed is to have floating plants. Then were spawning every day when I had them. I only had one fry survive the tank, but the apistogramma learned where they spawned and learned to hunt the surface of the water.
> 
> ...


Grobbins48 Interesting. I want to do something similar. I have a CO2 regulator with two outlets and I'm trying to figure out how to do this without buying a second controller. The 40B will be planted much lighter than my 75g, so I'm less concerned about getting optimum CO2 than adding a bit to enhance growth. How are you hooking your's up?


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

Grobbins48 said:


> I know it's not 'right' but I love the way this hygrophila kompakt is looking. Other may think I different but it's pretty cool to me!



That does look good...is it experiencing a deficiency or have you come across a sub-species?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

butchblack said:


> Grobbins48 Interesting. I want to do something similar. I have a CO2 regulator with two outlets and I'm trying to figure out how to do this without buying a second controller. The 40B will be planted much lighter than my 75g, so I'm less concerned about getting optimum CO2 than adding a bit to enhance growth. How are you hooking your's up?


I have the same thought process, just wanted to add a bit of CO2, not max this tank out. The 75 I pump lot's of CO2 in.

I simply put a 'T' on the regulator output with two barbed adapters. They each run line to Dwyer RMA 151 SSV flow meters. I use those to dial the rate in properly. The CO2 controller is set on the 75 to a safety level, so if there is EOTD or something happens I can save the tank. I dial in the CO2 to drop to just before shutting off by the controller on the 75 gallon. It has been working quite well for the past couple of weeks.

The CO2 on the 40 breeder is something like 10cc/min, enough to get it in the water column, but not so much that I worry about gassing the fish!

Bump:


rzn7z7 said:


> That does look good...is it experiencing a deficiency or have you come across a sub-species?


Definitely some sort of deficiency- but I am no expert here. I only put in 5ppm NO3, and 2.5 each of PO4 and K. Mg I didn't really add at all until this weeek, water is naturally 7ppm. We will see if anything changes!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Grobbins48 said:


> Definitely some sort of deficiency- but I am no expert here. I only put in 5ppm NO3, and 2.5 each of PO4 and K. Mg I didn't really add at all until this weeek, water is naturally 7ppm. We will see if anything changes!


Will be interesting to see how the plant health holds up.

Either way, it does look pretty cool. Just don't know if you can keep it there or not.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Little rearranging today, and decided to cut the CO2 again- this tank doesn't really need it and I didn't like how much faster the tank drains from the 75. I feel this is one of the better looks this tank has had for a while!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nice day to clean up over here. Took a lot of plant mass out. Still going strong with just some water changes and dumping in some ferts every time I do.


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## butchblack (Oct 25, 2019)

Grobbins48 said:


> Little rearranging today, and decided to cut the CO2 again- this tank doesn't really need it and I didn't like how much faster the tank drains from the 75. I feel this is one of the better looks this tank has had for a while!


Interesting. What do you use as a basis for determining that your tank doesn't need CO2? I've got my 40b up, running planted and stocked. I had to get my CO2 tank refilled a couple of days ago, so I used the time to place the tank in a better position to serve both tanks, but I'm torn about adding it to the 40b as all of the plants seem to be doing well and I'm not having any algae issues yet.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

butchblack said:


> Interesting. What do you use as a basis for determining that your tank doesn't need CO2? I've got my 40b up, running planted and stocked. I had to get my CO2 tank refilled a couple of days ago, so I used the time to place the tank in a better position to serve both tanks, but I'm torn about adding it to the 40b as all of the plants seem to be doing well and I'm not having any algae issues yet.


For me it was that I didn't want to bother with it really. The plants that are in it had grown perfectly fine with no CO2 in the past, and most of them continue to do extremely well today, a few weeks later. The ludwigia super red melted pretty hard, but honestly that is a plant I was ready to toss anyways. Ludwigia broadleaf actually grows wonderful in the low tech setup, long with just about everything else I the tank.

Actually, I like the way the buce and anubias grow in this tank better than my 75 gallon. I k how it is more to do with lower light than CO2, but overall just happier with this tank keeping it lower powered.


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## butchblack (Oct 25, 2019)

butchblack said:


> Interesting. What do you use as a basis for determining that your tank doesn't need CO2? I've got my 40b up, running planted and stocked. I had to get my CO2 tank refilled a couple of days ago, so I used the time to place the tank in a better position to serve both tanks, but I'm torn about adding it to the 40b as all of the plants seem to be doing well and I'm not having any algae issues yet.





Grobbins48 said:


> For me it was that I didn't want to bother with it really. The plants that are in it had grown perfectly fine with no CO2 in the past, and most of them continue to do extremely well today, a few weeks later. The ludwigia super red melted pretty hard, but honestly that is a plant I was ready to toss anyways. Ludwigia broadleaf actually grows wonderful in the low tech setup, long with just about everything else I the tank.
> 
> Actually, I like the way the buce and anubias grow in this tank better than my 75 gallon. I know it is more to do with lower light than CO2, but overall just happier with this tank keeping it lower powered.



It seems that we are doing the same things. I have a Beamswork DA FSPEC on a ramping timer. Light duration is 10 hours, but 6 of the 10 is at 20% intensity, the other 4 are 60%, 100%, 60%. I have Sagittaria subulata Dwarf, Sword Rosette (Parviflorus parviflorus 'Tropica'), and Tiger Lotus. All are low or medium-light plants, so the combination of low light intensity and no CO2 may work out well. My only concern is that my stocking of corys and whiptail cats may not produce enough CO2 in the long run. I may add a third species, some kind of schooling or shoaling mid/top-level swimmer in the future as I have the capacity to do so.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Been a while since an update. Big news is the apistogramma are mow moved over to my 75 high tech tank. The Male passed and with only a few small females I decided it was time to take the tank in a new direction. 

The wood was severely dirty and algae covered, so with the weather still being nice I pulled everything out last weekend and power washed it. Wow that worked amazing!

Then after rescaping and planting, I took a triple to the LFS in search of some angelfish. I found exactly what I wanted, and purchased 5 platinum angelfish along with 10 or so bronze corys!

I am so far pleased with this setup and the fish. More updates to come!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I have been so back and forth and undecided about CO2 on this tank! Well, back again to CO2- now that I have a backup 10lb tank I feel better powering both my 75 and this 40 breeder.

Just fired it up again today, so will be some time to dial it in.

I also lost my Java Fern, so I am considering a few additions of Java Fern Trident and Mini Bolbitis, along with everything currently in the tank. Looking to keep the island theme, but I feel like the trident fern will give it the look of denser growth.

As always, love to hear thought and perspectives of others!


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

grow the trident fern! it always gives it a nice texture with the interesting leaf ends


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

monkeyruler90 said:


> grow the trident fern! it always gives it a nice texture with the interesting leaf ends


Three pots on the way, along with some of the mini bolbitis and some buce!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Just a few shots and this crew has settled in over the past few weeks. Like the contrast they provide!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

You know, I've never really been a big fan of Angels. 

But for some reason those ones are very, very nice looking. Love the color and they look very elegant.

What type are they?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

They were sold to me as platinum angelfish. 

I also have never really been a huge fan, but something told me to give this a try, and I'll say, so far I am really enjoying the.

I have 5 in the 40 breeder, so we will see how the stocking works out long term. They are extremely aware of their environment and interact with me a lot. 

Between them, the dozen or so neons and a few bronze corys, the tank is pretty great.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Been a while since an update. Not a ton to update on. I did swap the filer to a fluval 307 last weekend, which I am quite happy with. 

Pretty amazing how quickly these angles grow! They seem to be doing well. A little tussle here and there, but no one is beat up, no fins tattered. 

Tonight I took time to plant a ton a buce that has been floating in the tank for a month or so. Hope it takes well, as theist time I did this nearly everything rotted away. 

A few pics from just a bit ago!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Though this was a pretty cool picture tonight!


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Looks really good! Such a peaceful vibe this tank has (in my mind anyway, it might be more chaotic in person  )


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Beautiful!! Love it! And love the neons!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Looks really good! Such a peaceful vibe this tank has (in my mind anyway, it might be more chaotic in person  )


Thanks Quag! It really is peaceful to be honest. So far the angelfish has been alright. One is absolutely the dominant, but no broken fins or anything (yet??).


Blackheart said:


> Beautiful!! Love it! And love the neons!


Thank you! They shimmer pretty great under the lights! LED is perfect look for this tank.


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

Beautiful tank! cool journey. I just picked up a 180 and was trying to think of what sand to use, and really like the way yours looks with the wood and lighter sand. What sand is it that you went with? I love how natural it looks with the pebbles thrown in!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Lingwendil said:


> Beautiful tank! cool journey. I just picked up a 180 and was trying to think of what sand to use, and really like the way yours looks with the wood and lighter sand. What sand is it that you went with? I love how natural it looks with the pebbles thrown in!


Thank you for the kind words! It is pool filter sand, and the pebbles are landscaping stones in a bag from home depot.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Sooo... I am considering selling off the platinum angelfish and finding something more natural looking. @Discusluv or anyone else, would love some of your thoughts on what would do well in this 40 breeder if you have any! Not really looking to do apistogramma again right now.


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

Grobbins48 said:


> Sooo... I am considering selling off the platinum angelfish and finding something more natural looking. @*Discusluv* or anyone else, would love some of your thoughts on what would do well in this 40 breeder if you have any! Not really looking to do apistogramma again right now.



How about schools of nano-tetras and rasboras....nothing more than an inch....like CPDs, ember tetras, chili rasboras, green neon tetras, toucan tetras, kubotai rasboras, etc?....


...and shrimp for a clean-up crew


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

rzn7z7 said:


> How about schools of nano-tetras and rasboras....nothing more than an inch....like CPDs, ember tetras, chili rasboras, green neon tetras, toucan tetras, kubotai rasboras, etc?....
> 
> 
> ...and shrimp for a clean-up crew


Not a bad idea! But so torn on what to do... haha


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

There is quite a bit of plant mass in this tank right now, but things seem overall going well. Still really enjoying how absolutly low maintenance this tank is.

No other real update, so here are a couple pics!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Hope all are going well. This tank has been humming right along. No change is stocking or really anything at all. Still love the simplicity of this tank!


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I can't believe you would cover that whole piece of driftwood in epyphites. Such a waste of an expensive piece of wood /s

(If you weren't following the drama thread, this was an inside joke. The tank looks amazing!!)


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

jellopuddinpop said:


> I can't believe you would cover that whole piece of driftwood in epyphites. Such a waste of an expensive piece of wood /s
> 
> (If you weren't following the drama thread, this was an inside joke. The tank looks amazing!!)


I was not following it, but now I want to look it up! Must have been a fun conversation! 

Thanks for the kind words


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Have to agree with Jello - great looking tank and best of all, "_*This tank has been humming right along. No change in stocking or really anything at all*_"
Now as for covering the wood with epyphites - sacrilege!!!!


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Immortal1 said:


> Have to agree with Jello - great looking tank and best of all, "_*This tank has been humming right along. No change in stocking or really anything at all*_"
> Now as for covering the wood with epyphites - sacrilege!!!!


Hahahaha


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> Have to agree with Jello - great looking tank and best of all, "_*This tank has been humming right along. No change in stocking or really anything at all*_"
> Now as for covering the wood with epyphites - sacrilege!!!!





jellopuddinpop said:


> Hahahaha


Okay, now I need the link to that thread! I cannot find it!!!


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Grobbins48 said:


> Okay, now I need the link to that thread! I cannot find it!!!


I sent you a pm. I dont want to revive it, it was too ugly lol


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Happy summer!









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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

That's absolutely gorgeous!! I bet your Angels are happy in there.


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## ytro (Dec 19, 2011)

I just went through your entire journal and loved seeing the progression. What a change since page 1! Your blackwater setup made me want to do one and your new nature-style approach is top notch as well. Thank you for sharing and please continue to post your updates.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Thanks for the kind words above! Things are going well and the tank is really on autopilot, which is a good thing these busy days!

One I threshing thing to note is that by early spring the leopard val had really taken over the entire tank. I though it was an interesting vibe so I left it. Then once summer hit and it was warmer in the tank and house, every last node of it died off. There was absolutely no saving it. I eventually had to pull any roots left because they were rotting under the sand. Oh well...

Anyways, the fish seem happy!










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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I wanted to take a moment to make one final post I'm this journal. This 40 breeder has been a fantastic journey over the past few years. I have enjoyed its evolution from balckwater apistos to the tank you see above.

These past few months months as I have spent time looking at and enjoying my 75 as well as this tank, it occurred to me that some of my passion for strict planted tanks had dwindled. I had two similar tanks that were not brining the same joy the used to. 

I took this as an opportunity to combine the best elements I loved from my two tanks into my 75 gallon. This left me feeling invigorated for what may be possible in my 40. After much time thinking about it, I decided to take a step back towards my roots from many years ago, and started up an African cichlid tank, specifically for the first time ever lake Tanganyika shell dwellers. 

I am very excited to watch this tank evolve over the coming months. It is a different sense of growth, watching a colony of fish interacting and morphing into what I hope will be a large and happy colony. 

I'll still be updating my 75 with my planted journey there. Not all the passion and excitement is gone, it simply is morphing with time. That is what I continue to find amazing about this hobby; there is so much potential and so many different ways to enjoy it, that when you feel stale in one aspect, simply try sometimes new!

For those who may be interested, here are a few shots of the new setup!

Thanks for following along!





































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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Grobbins48 said:


> I wanted to take a moment to make one final post I'm this journal. This 40 breeder has been a fantastic journey over the past few years. I have enjoyed its evolution from balckwater apistos to the tank you see above.
> 
> These past few months months as I have spent time looking at and enjoying my 75 as well as this tank, it occurred to me that some of my passion for strict planted tanks had dwindled. I had two similar tanks that were not brining the same joy the used to.
> 
> ...


I love the look, looks quite similar to what The DIY King Joey just did too. I like the idea of changing things up every few years. I want a rack of 120's in my den to have a few other species of tanks to scratch that difference itch!! 

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