# Beginner 55g Plan



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

A lot is going to depend on the light you get with that deal. To light a standard 55 gallon tank for low light, non-CO2 use, you could use:
4 - T8 bulbs, with a plain white reflective surface behind them. 3 bulbs would be marginal.
An AH Supply bright light kit, 2-55 watt kits or one 96 watt kit, with the 2 - 55 watt giving better uniform light coverage.
One T5HO bulb, with a good quality highly polished reflector, suspended about 25 inches from the substrate level.
Two T5NO bulbs, with typical reflector, an inch or two above the top of the tank.

What you probably will get is a one or two bulb T8 light, which will not be enough for any plants except very low light plants, like mosses and Anubias. In that case, spending a bit to upgrade to one of the choices above would help a lot.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> A lot is going to depend on the light you get with that deal. To light a standard 55 gallon tank for low light, non-CO2 use, you could use:
> 4 - T8 bulbs, with a plain white reflective surface behind them. 3 bulbs would be marginal.
> An AH Supply bright light kit, 2-55 watt kits or one 96 watt kit, with the 2 - 55 watt giving better uniform light coverage.
> One T5HO bulb, with a good quality highly polished reflector, suspended about 25 inches from the substrate level.
> ...


Hoppy, thanks for the lighting lesson. That helps a lot. 

I did confirm that there are "double lights on both sides of the hood." From the picture that I have, I can see that there are two lighting fixtures on the tank. It was one of the reasons that this might be a very good deal. They could be 4-T8s. 

I am making pickup arrangements now and will post more details as soon as I learn them.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Welcome to TPT!

I got my own Lilaeopsis mauritiana from www.SweetAquatics.com. They have nice Crypts, there, too.

4 T8 bulbs would give you a nice low light level for this tank. I expect that most stem plants might get leggy at the bottom at this light level, but you should be able to do well with rhizome (Anubias, Java fern) and rosette (Crypts, swords) plants.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

"Four T8 bulbs" means 4 bulbs extending the full length of the tank. Using 4 24 inch long T8 bulbs is the same as just 2 48 inch T8 bulbs, and is probably too little to let you grow much.

I would start looking for a 2 bulb 48 inch T5NO Coralife aquarium light. (That's 2-28 watt bulbs, not 54 watt bulbs.)


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> "Four T8 bulbs" means 4 bulbs extending the full length of the tank. Using 4 24 inch long T8 bulbs is the same as just 2 48 inch T8 bulbs, and is probably too little to let you grow much.
> 
> I would start looking for a 2 bulb 48 inch T5NO Coralife aquarium light. (That's 2-28 watt bulbs, not 54 watt bulbs.)


Something like this? 

Would you recommend the Coralife light or the AH Supply 2-55W kit? They look to be in the same price range so which would be better for actually growing plants. 

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Yes, that is the light I meant. The AH Supply light kit has to be installed in your own hood, and would provide about the same amount of light, perhaps a little less, but it would use 110 watts of electricity vs 56 watts for the Coralife light. You might as well save a little on your electric bill. Either one would work ok.


----------



## goot776 (May 10, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> Yes, that is the light I meant. The AH Supply light kit has to be installed in your own hood, and would provide about the same amount of light, perhaps a little less, but it would use 110 watts of electricity vs 56 watts for the Coralife light. You might as well save a little on your electric bill. Either one would work ok.


How is this light meant to be mounted? Does one need to buy a plastic cover, and then place the fixture on top of it?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Most people put the AH Supply lights into wooden canopies. They come as "retrofit kits" so require assembly. You can buy one, build one, or buy the one AH supply makes also.

With the Coralife, it's already inside a fixture.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Ok, I picked up the tank and stand. No filter. Lights are in a Perfecto lid with 2 18" f15 T8 bulbs. 

So, I definitely need to upgrade the lid and lights and find a good filter for a 55g. 

Any other tips? I appreciate the help.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Here are two iPhone pictures of the gear that I am keeping from the purchase. Please excuse the quality. 

The tank and the stand. I'm not sure that they will stay in that location. 










Some petrified wood:









I have a lot more work to do but this is a good start. 

Thanks for the assistance.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Update. 

I ordered Coralife T5NO light from Pet Boulevard. 

The SunSun canister filter is ordered off of ebay. 

3 bags of Flourite Black, 1 bag of Flourite Black Sand, new glass canopy and an inline heater from Foster and Smith. 

Tank was cleaned with bleach and rinsed. The tank is now completely full and left standing. I will test the water in the morning to get an accurate read on my local water. 

So, I have the hardware en route. 

Now, back to the plants. Any more suggestions now that the hardware is upgraded? 

Thanks again.


----------



## goot776 (May 10, 2010)

Nazrat said:


> Update.
> 
> I ordered Coralife T5NO light from Pet Boulevard.
> 
> ...


I'm following this thread closely, since I'm in the same boat as you -- just picked up my first 55g, and I'm scrounging around for parts/ideas. Why the Sand in addition to the 3 bags of Flourite Black? And also, why SunSun and not Eheim?


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

goot776 said:


> I'm following this thread closely, since I'm in the same boat as you -- just picked up my first 55g, and I'm scrounging around for parts/ideas. Why the Sand in addition to the 3 bags of Flourite Black? And also, why SunSun and not Eheim?


SunSun v. Eheim was simply a cost issue. I saw the thread about the SunSun filters and figured that I might as well give it a try since the filter was $60.00 including shipping. Since I am so new, I don't know any better yet. :wink: 

Is that filter alone enough for a planted tank? AqAdvisor doesn't think so but I am at a lost of how much more filtration to add. :icon_conf

Flourite issue--I wanted to use Black Flourite for aesthetic reasons. I was going to use 4 bags of it but, when I saw the Black Sand Flourite, I thought that it might give me some aquascaping options that the gravel alone would not. I plan on putting 2 bags of gravel down first, followed by the bag of sand and, then, the final bag of gravel to anchor the rocks and/or driftwood in the scape. 

I don't see that any harm would result from mixing the two. I tend to copy other successful plans in a rote format. This was my minor attempt to make my tank unique. In short, I tried to have fun with the decision. 

I have now figured out that the stand has a shelf that is at exactly the correct height to ensure that the canister filter will not fit. So, I will have to break out the tools to alter the stand. I can either cut the shelf out of one side or remove the entire shelf and return it at the necessary height. I have to think this one out. 

I did a first test on my tap water in the tank. I am not good at reading the pH levels yet. I can't tell if my pH is 7.4 or 8.2. On a positive note, my tap water has no ammonia. I don't know why I can read the ammonia test so easily but have trouble with the pH colors. Hopefully, with experience, I will get better. 

Being a beginner is fun but scary. I am drinking water out of a fire hose right now but I am learning something.


----------



## goot776 (May 10, 2010)

Read this. It has helped me immensely. Good luck!

Check out the AGA contests to get some planting inspiration. I still don't know what to do! So many options, haha.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Nazrat said:


> Now, back to the plants. Any more suggestions now that the hardware is upgraded?


Stick with low light plants and you should be good. The plants that have done the best for me under those Coralife lights are Swords, Crypts, Hygrophila sp., Bacopas, Rotala rotundifolia, and low light carpeting plants like Lilaeopsis mauritiana, Echinodorus tenellus 'narrow,' and 'red,' Dwarf Sagittaria, and Marselia minuta.

Sounds to me like things are coming along well! :thumbsup:


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks, Laura Lee. 

Your tank with the Lilaeopsis mauritiana really stood out to me and inspired the choice of that plant. 

At some point in my schooling, I should have taken more Latin. Knowing the common legal terms from Latin isn't really helping with aquatic plants. I haven't learned the common names to associate with the more specific scientific names. Unlike everything else, I can't memorize the plant list in 10 minutes.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

goot776 said:


> Read this. It has helped me immensely. Good luck!
> 
> Check out the AGA contests to get some planting inspiration. I still don't know what to do! So many options, haha.


Thanks for the link. At some point, I have to stop reading about planted tanks and do some work this week.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

I'm new at this also Naz. Do some searches in the forums & you'll find many threads of interest. My tank is in it's second week of cycling, all is going well thus far. Here's a link to a thread I put up to help us with low light plants. Good luck & I look forward to following your threatd. Hope the link on plants helps you. Brian

Too see pictures of the plants, copy the plant name & then click on "Plant Profiles" at the top of the TPT page & then paste the name on that search page & you'll see a picture.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/119642-list-low-light-plants.html#post1192595


----------



## goot776 (May 10, 2010)

Does anybody have a low-light list of plants with _pictures?_ That would make it SO MUCH EASIER to pick out complementary plants for us newbies.


----------



## Tsartetra (Oct 20, 2003)

goot776 said:


> Does anybody have a low-light list of plants with _pictures?_ That would make it SO MUCH EASIER to pick out complementary plants for us newbies.


How about a link to a database with such info and pics? How about this: http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=1

I've used it and it's fairly accurate...


----------



## goot776 (May 10, 2010)

Tsartetra said:


> How about a link to a database with such info and pics? How about this: http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=1
> 
> I've used it and it's fairly accurate...


OY. I've used that site a lot, and didn't know you can search by light level. :icon_roll


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

How about Plant Profiles on This website. Here's the link. Copy & paste the plant name in the search bar. Brian

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

UPS and FedEx were camped out on my front porch yesterday. 

I now have the SunSun 302 filter, Coralife T5NO light, glass lid, ETH 300 heater, and Flourite. I found Osmocote and plan to place it down prior to the Flourite. 

I went to Home Depot and Ace Hardware for 5 gallon paint strainers to clean the Flourite and was unable to find any. I will have to try Lowe's this weekend so I can get to work on the substrate. 

2 pieces of driftwood have been soaking since Wednesday and they show no signs of surrendering to the bottom. 

Once I get my aquascaping complete, I will order plants. 

Thanks for the plant recommendations in this thread. I was able to use the recommendations, plant vendor websites, and the plant profiles on this site to come up with a good group of plants. I need to figure out their layout soon. 

Unfortunately, this is a very busy week at work. I have to do quite a bit of paperwork from home this weekend so I don't know if I will have the time necessary to finish the preliminary steps before ordering plants. 

I am very excited to have most of the equipment in hand. I hope this works out well.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

I decided to take a tour of the non chain LFS's in the area. 

Both of the stores tried to convince me to cycle my tank with feeder fish even when I explained that I was going to do a planted tank. They both told me not to plant anything until after my tank is cycled with the feeders. 

One of them even tried to convince me that keeping Tiger Barbs with an Angel would not cause any problems. 

So, just to clarify, since I am starting from scratch with no established media, should I plant my tank and then get fish or cycle first then fish and then plants? 

I hate to admit that these stores confused me but they did. 

Can anyone set me straight?


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Cycling is for the benefit of the fish only, not the plants. The best way to start the tank is to fully plant it with just a small amount of water in the tank, then finish filling the tank. Start any fertilizing you will be doing, and let the plants get started growing for a week or two. Then add 2-3 at most fish. Wait another week or so, and add a few more fish. Wait another week and finish adding the fish. This is my preferred method, but other people do different things. Obviously, there is more than one way that works.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks, Hoppy. Your explanation fits with what I have read but I was surprised to hear the LFS spout their views. 

One claimed that there was no nitrogen in the water until the fish arrived so planting should occur after cycling for the sake of the plant. I didn't want to argue with the expert so I nodded, smiled, and walked out of the door. 

I assume that the layer of Osmocote under the Flourite should solve any nitrogen problem.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

I'm new to this hobby and my lfs's confuse the heck out of me also. I'm still unsure if my tank is cycling or not. I take my water tests daily and still don't know what to do. I've read soooooo many posts and asked so many questions, I'm still confused. Good luck with your 55..... I've subscribed to this thread & look forward to more information through posters.


----------



## Michelle_WI (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm a really big advocate of fishless cycling, especially if you'd like to add a lot of fish right away. It's also cheap, easy, saves you from having to do a bunch of big water changes to keep water quality at a safe level, and best of all, it doesn't harm your fish.

If you're planting heavily, and only adding a few fish every week, though, you'd probably be okay to skip a fishless cycle. Perhaps give it a jump start by adding some mulm from an established tank and add a bunch of cheap fast growing stems, like hornwort, to help use up ammonia.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

I still have no clue on how or when a cycle is finished......... What's the sign that your tank completed a cycle? I don't get it. I've been reading a lot & still no straight forward answer.


----------



## Michelle_WI (Aug 18, 2009)

Prostock, are you doing a fishless cycle or a cycle with fish? Do you have test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? 
When you initially cycle a tank, first you'll see elevated levels of ammonia (either from adding ammonia in a fishless cycle, or from the break down of waste in a fish cycle) then as the bacteria colony grows it will start to consume the ammonia and turn it into nitrites. Your ammonia level will go down and nitrite will rise. The organisms that consume the nitrIte will produce nitrAte, and then you'll see nitrite levels fall and nitrate levels rise. Your tank is cycled when both ammonia and nitrite fall back to zero. In a fully cycled tank you have enough bacteria to break down ammonia and nitrite as it's produced, and all you should be able to detect with test kits is the end result- nitrAte. Keep in mind that if you add more fish or do some heavy cleaning or rearranging, you will likely experience a mini cycle.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Update:

I rinsed the Flourite last night and placed it in the tank. It was quite the event for my family as Dad was seen "washing dirt" in the back yard. I used the 5 gallon bucket with a paint strainer method. Most of the bags washed in about 4 buckets full while one took 5. 

I had 3 bags of Flourite Black and 1 bag of Flourite Black Sand. The gravel was easier to rinse. I was afraid of losing too much material when washing the sand so there is a nice little haze in the tank now. 

I installed the driftwood and rocks. I have a piece of Texas Holey Rock in addition to the petrified wood. My sons and I spent quite a bit of time designing the aquascape while my wife laughed at our "styling" efforts. 

My plants are on order from Sweet Aquatics. I hope to receive them after the Thanksgiving holiday. 

I did install a background of acrylic per the recommendations in another thread. I used an uplight to illuminate the back of the tank. It does make a nice effect. 

I still need to cut holes in the back of my stand for the filter hoses and install the filter. I hope to have fish in my tank by the first week in December. My kids are going crazy picking out names for fish we don't have but plan to get. :smile:

I will post pictures soon.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Another way to speed up the cycling process is to put 1 shrimp cocktail in the tank. I tried it. It smelled so only left it in there for a 2 days. fishbreath has a thread on it.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Sorry took me a bit to answer your questions, been busy. I am cycling with fish. When I started this adventure, I had no idea there was such a thing as fishless cycling. Now I know for the next time. I started my tank on 10/23 & added 10 Zebra Danio's on 10/25. My tank is yet to cycle. All my levels are basically the same as when I started, the only elevation is Nitrates which is safe around 10. I have test strips & an Liquid test kit. Ammonia has been around 0.25 for the most part, Nitrites have been 0.

Thank you for your in-depth explanation, it's appreciated & I am using it while my tank cycles. Hopefully it will be complete soon, I'd like to add a few new fish. I have added quite a few plants & have more on the way as well as some Java Moss. Wish Me Luck. Thanks again for your time & information.




Michelle_WI said:


> Prostock, are you doing a fishless cycle or a cycle with fish? Do you have test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?
> When you initially cycle a tank, first you'll see elevated levels of ammonia (either from adding ammonia in a fishless cycle, or from the break down of waste in a fish cycle) then as the bacteria colony grows it will start to consume the ammonia and turn it into nitrites. Your ammonia level will go down and nitrite will rise. The organisms that consume the nitrIte will produce nitrAte, and then you'll see nitrite levels fall and nitrate levels rise. Your tank is cycled when both ammonia and nitrite fall back to zero. In a fully cycled tank you have enough bacteria to break down ammonia and nitrite as it's produced, and all you should be able to detect with test kits is the end result- nitrAte. Keep in mind that if you add more fish or do some heavy cleaning or rearranging, you will likely experience a mini cycle.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If you're a month with fish in your tank, have nitrates, and no observable ammonia or nitrites, it should be safe to SLOWLY start increasing your bioload.

Just don't forget to quarantine all new fish for a minimum of 2-4 weeks to avoid introducing something nasty into your main tank.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> SLOWLY start increasing your bioload.
> 
> Just don't forget to quarantine all new fish for a minimum of 2-4 weeks to avoid introducing something nasty into your main tank.


Bioload = New Fish?

Quarantine 2-4 Weeks? Where am I to put them for 2-4 weeks? Bath Tub, Kitchen Sink? I only have the one tank. There's no way I can quarantine them, they will have to go in the main tank or just not buy any............ You like to confuse me Laura Lee, don't cha? LoL


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Prostock442 said:


> Bioload = New Fish?
> 
> Quarantine 2-4 Weeks? Where am I to put them for 2-4 weeks? Bath Tub, Kitchen Sink? I only have the one tank. There's no way I can quarantine them, they will have to go in the main tank or just not buy any............ You like to confuse me Laura Lee, don't cha? LoL


Yes, bioload = new fish. I'm really not trying to confuse you! lol :redface:

I strongly recommend that you get another small tank to use as a QT tank when purchasing new fish, and to use as a hospital tank should you need to isolate any fish in your main tank for any reason (bullying, illness, injury, etc). QT tanks can be very cheap and simple. You can use a cheap $3 10-15 gallon plastic bin from Walmart (or splurge $10 for a "real" 10gal tank), heater, and sponge filter. Whole setup shouldn't put you back more than $20-25, especially if you find a deal on Craigslist, and you break it down when not in use.

Ever since I started and faithfully stuck to a QT regimen, I have not had to treat any of my main tanks. No ich, no fungus, no fish TB... those things can be costly to treat, or, in the case of Fish TB, a tank would have to be broken down, plants and substrate thrown away, and everything completely sterilized, since it's not treatable. I HAVE had to treat those things in QT, however- and it's infinitely easier and cheaper when you can catch a problem there rather than in the main tank.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> I'm really not trying to confuse you! lol :redface:
> 
> I know your not, I'm joking with you..... HaHa
> 
> it's infinitely easier and cheaper when you can catch a problem there rather than in the main tank.


Yes, that is true. I'll have to take a cruise around Craigs. That's where the setup I have came from. Paid all of 30$ for what I have. 30G tank, Wood Stand, Marineland Bio 200 OTB Filter & some accessories. Thanks for the info Laura Lee


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Plants arrived today from Sweet Aquatics. There were a ton of plants in the starter package and it seemed like there were a few extra items in the box. 

Planting took about an hour due to having to ensure that I was placing the plants in the proper space. 

Turned on the coralife aqualight T5NO and everything looked good. In a few minutes, the lights turned off by themselves. I am concerned that the light may be overheating since it is resting on the glass lids. I don't want to remove the lids as I plan on getting a few noted jumping fish. I might have to order legs for the light. 

Tonight, I also installed the SunSun 302 filter. It really was simple to use. Priming was tricky until I googled the correct method. Once I knew the proper method, priming was extremely fast. So, now the tank and filter are purring along nicely. 

I will take some pictures to post in the morning of the progress. 









































Since I finished the tank after the kids were asleep, I plan on being attacked in the morning with questions about how soon we can add the fish. I had been using the wait for the plants excuse. That is now gone. :icon_wink

I have altered my stocking plan a little. 

Want to add: 

8 Green Tiger Barbs
5 Boseman's Rainbow Fish
1 Red Tailed Shark
5 Otocinclus
1 Pleco of appropriate size and type for planted tank. 

Any comments on the stocking list. 

I haven't been able to find any Oto's locally in the last month. Is there a shortage of them right now?

Thanks.


----------



## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

This looks like a very interesting thread, I wish you goodluck with your plants, I recently jumped into planted tanks as well.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Nazrat said:


> Turned on the coralife aqualight T5NO and everything looked good. In a few minutes, the lights turned off by themselves. I am concerned that the light may be overheating since it is resting on the glass lids.


Did you get the light working? I have same light fixture resting on glass. I cut all but the lid part from cover and replaced it with glass, from ACE hardware. Have a metal rod on top lid lip to secure the glass. 

Tell the kids you want to wait a week to make certain plants have grown roots so they won't be uprooted by fish.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

I did get the light working. The overheating was before I turned on the filter. I think that the lack of water movement may have contributed to the overheating. 

Since the filter started, there have been no heat issues with the light. 

In a surprising turn of events, my wife is making positive comments about the tank. She was just standing in front of the tank by herself a few minutes ago and asking questions about the plants. That is a change from when I bought the tank.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Always nice when the ol' lady approves. Nice going!!


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Did my first water test since adding plants. 

Here are my results: 

ph 8.1
NH3 2.00 ppm
NO2 .25 ppm
NO3 0 ppm

It looks like my tank is cycling. The only additions to the Flourite substrate are Osmocote underlayer (not Plus). I have added Excel daily since planting on Saturday. 
No fish or shrimp in the tank. 

Where is the ammonia coming from? The Osmocote? 
Does this look normal?

Should I add Tetra Safestart to really kick start the cycle? I have RCS on order and was waiting until they arrive to add it. However, if there is already ammonia, should I add it now? 

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Today's results:

NH3 2.00 ppm
NO2 5.0 ppm
NO3 10 ppm

I figured out that I did not properly conduct the Nitrate test yesterday so I discount the finding due to user error. 

I am surprised that nitrates are already appearing since the tank was only planted on Saturday. So, in 4 days, nitrates have already started to appear. 

So, my RCS are getting closer per the shipment tracking. I just added SafeStart to allow it to work before the shrimp arrive. With the ammonia present in the tank, the bacteria in SafeStart should have enough to work with for now. 

Thanks.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Nazrat said:


> I ordered Coralife T5NO light from Pet Boulevard. The SunSun canister filter is ordered off of [Ebay Link Removed]


Great choice for a low tech tank. If you get plants with red you can them to adjust to the mid light dosing with iron.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks for the links. 

Water test tonight of: 

NH3 1.5 ppm
NO2 .25 ppm
NO3 10 ppm

Did a 50% WC. Added Aquasafe.

New test: 

NH3 .50 ppm
NO2 0 ppm
NO3 5.0 ppm

RCS arrived. Acclimated for approximately 1.5 hours while doing the WC. 

When released in the tank, the RCS are hiding out under a big piece of driftwood. They are crawling around on the substrate eating algae. 

My sons are having fun watching them make camp in the driftwood. 

So far, so good.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

The tank is coming along well with the usual issues starting to raise their heads. 

Last night's test:

NH3 .25 ppm (2nd day in a row that the test came in above zero but below .25)
NO2 0 ppm
NO3 5.0 ppm

Algae has started. Brown spots on rocks, driftwood and plant leaves. I removed some of the brown strings that were forming on the driftwood. I turned down the lights in response and continued dosing with Excel. 

There is also some white algae that is forming on the substrate. It looks like little pieces of paper. I have removed some of them. 

I spotted some critters that I didn't add. My 8 year old identified them as snails. So, we had some piggyback for a ride. I have seen 3 or 4 and they are very small. 

20+ RCS have settled in pretty well. They are eating algae and I drop a shrimp wafer almost daily. 

I had to do a trim of melted leaves Saturday. There is quite a bit of new growth as I believe the plants are using the osmocote in addition to any bacteria colonies that have developed. 

All in all, after 9 days, everything is going as expected. 

I want to start adding Ottos and/or a pleco soon to help with algae. I have had real trouble finding Ottos in the LFS including the big chains in the last 2 months. I am leaning toward a bristlenose pleco. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Nazrat said:


> I want to start adding Ottos and/or a pleco soon to help with algae. I have had real trouble finding Ottos in the LFS including the big chains in the last 2 months. I am leaning toward a bristlenose pleco.


One, whom work at Pet Smart and has an aquarium, told me that the ottos mainly eat hair algae and they don't live long. I would get a Flying Fox or Siamese algae eater. Many sell the Chinese algae eater as Siamese algae eater. The difference is the line is solid black in the Siamese. In Chinese line is wavy and brown. I like these for they eat algae on the plants.


----------



## massimo (Dec 12, 2010)

This thread has been really helpful in planning my first planted tank. Can I ask how exactly you did your cycling? It looks like your ammonia levels went up without any help. I ask because I also want to put in CRS and let them get settled before I add fish, but I've heard CRS are sensitive to high nitrite levels. I'm thinking I might cycle with the cocktail shrimp method.


----------



## swoof (Jun 30, 2010)

I'd wouldn't do the chinese algae eater, they tend to get bigger and stop eating algae. Plus when they get bigger they tend to get an attitude.


----------



## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

On the other hand, SAE's are supposed to be very good. Try to get older juveniles, as the younger they are, the harder they are to tell apart from CAE's. I can't stress how bad CAE's are. I've lost a few fish to them, and they were only two inches.

Bristlenoses are supposed to be good in planted tanks, so long as you give them some vegetable matter a couple times a week.

Otherwise, you could get beautiful algae eating snails that don't breed like crazy. Speaking of, can you describe the snails you have more?


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

defiesexistence said:


> On the other hand, SAE's are supposed to be very good. Try to get older juveniles, as the younger they are, the harder they are to tell apart from CAE's. I can't stress how bad CAE's are. I've lost a few fish to them, and they were only two inches.
> 
> Bristlenoses are supposed to be good in planted tanks, so long as you give them some vegetable matter a couple times a week.
> 
> Otherwise, you could get beautiful algae eating snails that don't breed like crazy. Speaking of, can you describe the snails you have more?


Right now, the snails are so small that they are hard to describe. The largest is about 1/4 of an inch. Dark shell. Very hard to see at this point unless they are crawling on the glass.


----------



## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Ah, sounds like the acute bladder snails I received, by not bleach dipping my plants beforehand. If they don't grow larger than 1/4" and are dark, with small gold speckles, they are bladder snails, _Physella acuta_, which multiply rapidly. On the bright side, they make great fish food. Nuisances, IMO.

http://www.weichtiere.at/english/gastropoda/freshwater/physidae.html


----------



## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

is a twisted coned shape shell? I got some plants a couple weeks ago that came with some that looked like that, they were ramshorn snails. If thats what they are, they will breed prolifically and possibly start munching on the plants. 

If you want algae eating snails, I like Nerites myself, zebra or olive nerites, they will live in freshwater tanks fine, but only breed in brackish water, so no fear of snails over running the tank, and they won't eat any of the plants at all, just clean the glass mainly, I only occasionally find them cleaning my plants leaves.

Otto's would definitely be the way to go if you can find some. They are *very* sensitive tho, i've bought 5 over the last year and not a single one has lived when all my other fish have been fine since the get-go. sometimes it's just bad stock at the LFS tho and you may be fine with them. The otto's *will* clean the algea that you're shrimp won't from your plants and such. My shrimp are always about eating, but they never seem to clean the plants i want them to  The otto's cleaned everything while i had them. 

I personally thought about getting SAE's and/or CAE's but i've been told and have read, that *both* species can tend to be aggressive when they get older. I didn't want to risk any fish eating my RCS much less any of my other fish, so i've stayed away from them, you may have luck tho as thats not my experience, its just the info i've come across myself on the net over the last few months.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

massimo said:


> This thread has been really helpful in planning my first planted tank. Can I ask how exactly you did your cycling? It looks like your ammonia levels went up without any help. I ask because I also want to put in CRS and let them get settled before I add fish, but I've heard CRS are sensitive to high nitrite levels. I'm thinking I might cycle with the cocktail shrimp method.


I went about cycling in a poor way. I added a lot of Osmocote underneath the substrate. When a piece of driftwood started to float, I pushed it down firmly. I think that exposed a few pieces of the osmocote which created ammonia. That is my theory. 

I never added ammonia or food. There is no ammonia in my tap water. So, the exposed Osmocote is my only theory. 

Tetra Safestart worked pretty well IMO. I added it when the ammonia was high (2.0) before I added the RCS. The shrimp are fine with only the one water change. 

I wouldn't necessarily copy this method but it has worked so far. 

The local Petco had Ottos today. I am going to test tonight and see where we are in the process. I might pick up some ottos this week when my schedule allows.


----------



## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Awesome!

And yeah the SafeStart is a good way to get your bacterial population up, but it's not an end all be all. Definitely still monitor the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate every couple days for the next month. 

Also a thing to keep in mind that i noticed with the sunsun filter atleast after adding the SAFEstart: it will populate whatever is at the bottom of your filter first, so if you're bio media is at the mid/top of the filter and you clean out the bottom sponge(s) within 2-3 weeks of adding the , you're likely to go into a minicycle for a lil while. I did so because i had to and ended up having to buy another ~$13 bottle of safestart to get the tank rebalanced again. Once it's up and running for a couple months tho you're definitely good to go


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

LNT.com has 20% off & free shipping. Stock up now.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Ok, my test last night had good results:

NH3 0 ppm
NO2 0 ppm
NO3 5.0 ppm

It looks like my tank is fully cycled. 
Plants were added on December 4th. 
SafeStart added on December 8th. 
Shrimp added on December 12th. 
Only one 50% WC during that time period. 

This looks pretty fast to me but I am excited that things seem to be progressing well. 

Snails are starting to multiply, however. I can count at least 10 of them now but they are still very small. I am going to have to learn how to control them soon.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Nazrat said:


> Snails are starting to multiply, however.


What kind of snails? Clown or Yo-Yo loach will eat them up. Then there are the Assassin Snails that eat other snails.

The good news is that the fact snails are multiplying is a sign that you have a good amount of calcium in your tank. Thus probably need less ferts to get plants to grow. 

Do you still have the algae? You could get nerite snails for algae problems. If algae isn't affect the plants I would just lower the light period to 5hrs and wait it out.


----------



## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

The fact that they are multiplying means that they are mature, which means they are adults, which means they are small, adult snails, dark in color. Nazrat, did you check out the link I gave you? Even better, can you post a picture of these snails? (Its hard, but you can take one out once you see it, and take a few shots that way?) Do they have a pointy shell?


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> The fact that they are multiplying means that they are mature, which means they are adults,


Don't live but a day in my tank, which has low gh. Thus never multiply.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

defiesexistence said:


> The fact that they are multiplying means that they are mature, which means they are adults, which means they are small, adult snails, dark in color. Nazrat, did you check out the link I gave you? Even better, can you post a picture of these snails? (Its hard, but you can take one out once you see it, and take a few shots that way?) Do they have a pointy shell?


I did check out your link. 

They are very hard to see. My camera phone simply isn't capable of taking photos of them. I will have to find our digital camera to do the job after my wife gets home. 

I pulled out 2 of the largest ones. The shell does have a point. 

Since I have RCS in there now, I want to be careful in controlling the snails.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Added 5 Otos and 1 L15 Candy striped pleco tonight. 

Everyone looks happy so far.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Lost one Oto today. My son found him trapped between the driftwood and the tank. 

I checked parameters and no spikes in ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. 

I did a good pruning of weakened leaves and rinsed out the sponge over the filter intake. That increased circulation quite a bit. 

My candy striped pleco isn't moving much. I added some zucchini to the shrimp pellets to see if that will help. I am worried that the pleco isn't eating enough. 

Should I get another Oto or two? Or should I wait a while? They have done wonders on the algea in the tank but I haven't seen them eat algae wafers or zucchini. 

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Update:

Tank was going well. I noticed that there seemed to be a flow issue with the filter. So, I cleaned the filter by changing the water out. I had also been using a sponge on the intake for the filter so I decided to change it to pantyhose. 

Since there were only 4 Otos, 3 plecos, and 25+ RCS, I didn't figure this would be a problem. 

Wrong. 

Evidently, the change of the sponge sent my tank into a mini-cycle. 2 plecos have died. I have added SafeStart along with multiple 50% WC. So far, no other losses. 

Flow is still an issue. So, I have a SunSun 303B with UV being delivered today. My plan is to run them in parallel to increase flow in my 55g tank. 

On a positive note, one of the three Lilaeopsis maruitana plants is sending out tons of runners. So, my ground cover is starting to take hold. 

I really want the tank to be full of plants before I add the barbs in order to give the RCS a fighting chance.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Nazrat said:


> Update:
> I cleaned the filter by changing the water out. I had also been using a sponge on the intake for the filter so I decided to change it to pantyhose.


So you cleaned the sponge with the tank water? If so putting it in the tank may help some. 

How much did you pay for that safe start. I don't see it in my stores and on line a bottle 50ml is $10.


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Nazrat said:


> Right now, the snails are so small that they are hard to describe. The largest is about 1/4 of an inch. Dark shell. Very hard to see at this point unless they are crawling on the glass.


Sweet Aquatics sent me two different types of snails with my plants and it took some serious work to get them under control and out of my tank (had not yet learned the potassium permanganate trick, will NEVER make that mistake again!).


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Hilde said:


> The good news is that the fact snails are multiplying is a sign that you have a good amount of calcium in your tank. Thus probably need less ferts to get plants to grow.


Really? That's good to know. I was worried about that. My ramshorns are breeding like crazy (if anybody _wants_ ramshorns, I'd be happy to send them just for the cost of shipping; could also send hornwort with eggs, LOL!).


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Betta Maniac said:


> Sweet Aquatics sent me two different types of snails with my plants and it took some serious work to get them under control and out of my tank (had not yet learned the potassium permanganate
> trick, will NEVER make that mistake again!).


I think I have 2 different types of snails from them also. One looks like the bladder snail. However, there is another type that is getting very large with a golden shell. It is much more of a spiral shell without the pointed ends of the bladders. 

I will try to get a picture of it. It is becoming a behemoth. 

Water in this part of Texas is very hard. So my ph is always close to 8.00 with a ton of minerals in the water. 

Unfortunately, the sponge was dry by the time I figured out what was happening. Rookie mistake. 

I did clean the sponge in the tank water instead of tap water. I had learned that much. 

Being a first timer is fun sometimes. Othertimes, no so much. :icon_wink


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

Hilde said:


> How much did you pay for that safe start. I don't see it in my stores and on line a bottle 50ml is $10.


Petsmart is the only place that I can find it. So, I paid the same price that they charge on their website IIRC.


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Nazrat said:


> I think I have 2 different types of snails from them also. One looks like the bladder snail. However, there is another type that is getting very large with a golden shell. It is much more of a spiral shell without the pointed ends of the bladders.


I got your basic grey pond snails and something dark with a spiraling pointy shell (not assassin snail long and pointy, just more elongated than the pond snails).


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

I figured out that it is Ramshorn snails and bladder snails. 

I am wondering if introducing Krebs would be good. I think they are great looking. I am worried about them with my RCS but I hear that they do eat snails.


----------



## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

All right, get rid of those snails! Pests, the lot of them. Make 'em into fish noms.

If your shrimp are small enough to fit in the mouth, they go in the mouth. Chances are they might not come out, if they also eat other inverts. But I've never kept Kribs, nor shrimp, so disregard me.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Assassin snails do a pretty good job.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Hilde said:


> How much did you pay for that safe start. I don't see it in my stores and on line a bottle 50ml is $10.


http://www.lnt.com/product//11442-523703/safestart.html

Free Shipping


----------



## Nazrat (Oct 27, 2010)

defiesexistence said:


> All right, get rid of those snails! Pests, the lot of them. Make 'em into fish noms.
> 
> If your shrimp are small enough to fit in the mouth, they go in the mouth. Chances are they might not come out, if they also eat other inverts. But I've never kept Kribs, nor shrimp, so disregard me.


I appreciate your help with the snails. It is merely the sheer number of them that is concerning. 

Obviously, I am overfeeding so changing that would help control the population. 

I need to install the additional filter to get my flow fixed before I do anything dramatic.


----------

