# Ahs Kits / T5 HO Retro kits (dilema)



## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I know this has probably already been done, but I want some oppinions from people that have used either type of light in their setup or what would be even better is to hear from people that have had BOTH setups. Let me define what what my goals are.

1. I am going to be starting up a high tech tank with dual filters, inline reactor, heater, CO2, etc. This tank will be a 75 or 90 gallon tank, and I am currently building the stand and (soon) canopy for the tank.

2. My original plan was to buy 6 55W ahs fixtures. I was going to split these into three rows with the front and rear rows being the plant growing rows and a middle row for actinics which I would like to use for fish colors and a dawn/dusk effect. This would effectively give me 330W of light (This is a statement of power consumtion rather than WPG).

3. I have started looking at T5 retro kits, and I have seen some that look very decent, but I am not sure how many I would need to accomplish the same thing as I was stating in point number 2.

4. One of my concerns is the power consumption. I am not concerned as much with my monthly electric bill as much as I am with the load on the circuit that my tank is going to plug into. Currently, I have my electrical displayed here in my stand that I am building, and I don't want to overload the mini circuit in my stand as well as the circuit that I will actually plug into in my house which is a standard 15 amp circuit. I am worried that the load of 330W of light, a 300W heater, filters, etc might be too much and thats why I am considering the T5 option.

Here is the post in my build journal where I have laid out the electrical:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/d...-75-gallon-stand-canopy-build.html#post559039

As it stands now, I might ad another mini circuit in the stand just for filters and heator(s). Keep them segmented on seperate GFIs. Another option which I have not totally ruled out is to run a stand alone 15 or 20 amp circuit just for the tank from my breaker box. Then I wouldn't have to worry about overloading the circuit. 


I would like to hear input from people with regards to the T5 setups and the AHS PC fixtures I am thinking about. I know the T5s penetrate deeper into the water column, etc. Let me know what you think. How many T5 fixtures to accomplish the same thing, etc.


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## ummyeah (Jul 8, 2007)

If electricity were no concern I'd get two of these: http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=71_7_13&products_id=1334


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Electricity is a concern with regards to overloading circuit(s). The other thing is that I wouldn't have three seperate lighing rows. I would only have two, so the dawn/dusk effect wouldn't be an option unless I bought completely different ballasts and wired it differently than what it was intended for. That would also put me at 500W as opposed to 330 with the ah supply kits. 

Light output would probably be above where I want it, and the power consumption would be higher.

I guess I am looking for a way to either get the power consumption down by using T5 retro kits or reassurance that I am not going to overload my circuit(s) with 330W of PC lighting.

Make sense?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

It's hard to give you a precise, sophisticated answer. If you want a gutfeel, I'd say four 54W T5 will give you roughly the same as 3 rows (6 bulbs) of 55W PC light. I can't prove that with any numbers, but having run both and looking at reflectors and U shape etc I think that could be close.

Having said that... it depends a lot on ballasts and the specific bulbs you will be using.

I would always chose T5 over PC due to higher efficiency and less heat buildup. Ppl always say that T5s are just straightened PC bulbs which sorta explains the differences for otherwise very similar bulbs.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Thanks for the info WP. Definately gave me a starting place to look at T5 options. Probably what would be perfect is 5 T5 bulbs with 1 actinic in the middle and the other 4 bulbs being for plants. After looking at some retro kits, though, it appears that T5s are generally only sold in pairs.

I would want to get good reliable retro kits, but after looking at the price difference between some different brands I'm a little discouraged with the price range. Ice caps seem to be the most expensive, Tek is in the middle, and Sunlights are on the low end. I know people on this forum like Tek lights, but I can't remember seeing info on the other two. (I haven't run a search yet).

With regards to specific bulbs and ballasts, I have no idea yet. I guess my knowledge of PC lighting is a little better than my T5 knowledge. I know that if I go with a PC retro kit, I am going with ahsupply.com since people talk about them so highly. T5 on the other hand is a different ball of wax. Mostly I have seen people talk about stand alone fixtures rather than retro kits.

Looks like I need to research the T5s more to get an idea of what I might need.

Once again, thank you!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

On my 75 I was running a 45 watt pump, 240 watts of PC, 108 watts of T5HO, 400 watt heater in sump, 15 watt UV. Never had a problems with everthing running and mine was on a 10 amp fuse. As far as lighting T5 is much better than the PC's and you can run less and get the same output. NOTE: I haven't run the AHSupply reflectors but here they can be quite efficient.

Craig


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## YankyTexan (Mar 8, 2008)

IME amps trip breakers not watts. Add your amps up. Also, most residential breakers trip at 80% rated (ie. a 20 amp breaker trips at 16 amps).

If you upgrade your breaker to a larger size make sure the wire is rated to handle it.

My recent attempt at DIY lighting taught me to spend the money on reflectors. At first I went the el cheapo route with a white enamel background. Later I added individual reflectors and wow what a difference. All the fish signed a petition requesting sunglasses.

Good luck.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Have you thought about just buying the ballast, some endcaps, and good reflectors separately? That's what I do... 

It might not be much cheaper than buying retrofit kits, but just like building your own computer, you can cherry-pick the components and get exactly what you want...


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Craigthor said:


> On my 75 I was running a 45 watt pump, 240 watts of PC, 108 watts of T5HO, 400 watt heater in sump, 15 watt UV. Never had a problems with everthing running and mine was on a 10 amp fuse. As far as lighting T5 is much better than the PC's and you can run less and get the same output. NOTE: I haven't run the AHSupply reflectors but here they can be quite efficient.
> 
> Craig


Craig -

Sounds very similar to what I might be using as far as power consumption. Thanks for your imput!




YankyTexan said:


> IME amps trip breakers not watts. Add your amps up. Also, most residential breakers trip at 80% rated (ie. a 20 amp breaker trips at 16 amps).
> 
> If you upgrade your breaker to a larger size make sure the wire is rated to handle it.
> 
> ...


YankyTexan -

You are definately right. I haven't converted to amp usage, so I am not certain what the total draw would be. I would also have to figure out what the other devices not related to the aquarium draw that are on the same circuit. The more I think about this, the more inclined I am to go with an isolated 20 amp circuit just for the tank. After finishing my basement myself, I happen to know that I have plenty of room left in my breaker pannel to add additional circuits.  The only problem is that now my basement is finished, it is going to be more of a PITA to run the additional circiut.

I agree with you with the reflectors. Any way I choose to go, I am going with something that is going to maximize the light output of the bulb with regards to the reflectors.



Wasserpest said:


> Have you thought about just buying the ballast, some endcaps, and good reflectors separately? That's what I do...
> 
> It might not be much cheaper than buying retrofit kits, but just like building your own computer, you can cherry-pick the components and get exactly what you want...


Wasserpest -

I had not thought of that at all. That would be an option that I would definately like to explore. What would you recommend as far as ballasts, bulbs, end caps, etc?

If I went this route, would I be able to have say 5 T5 fixtures with 4 being on one or two balasts for plant growth, and one fixture being an actinic for the dawn dusk effect and fish colors? That would be an ideal alternative to the ahs kits (I think).


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## sfcallen (Dec 13, 2006)

http://www.specialty-lights.com/250525.html

These have the tek reflectors and your choice of Giesemann bulbs. A little pricey but good quality. I think you could do what you want by getting two of the sets and get only one bulb actinic for the effect you are looking for. I don't think you will tripping the breaker running what you are, I have run twice the amount of amps you are looking at on a 15 amp breaker.


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## JDowns (Mar 6, 2008)

A 20 amp would be overkill IME. To give you an example based on my 150g setup.

Canister Filter - .97 amps
(2) Mag Drive 9.5 - 1.33 amps
Cooling Fans - .18 amps
Lights if I ever felt silly and ran all 480w - 5.94 amps ( 6 x 80w HO T5's from Catalina)
Workhorse 7 - 1.82 amps x 2
Workhorse 5 - 1.15 amps x 2

Thats 8.42 amps.

The only reason I could see you needing a new circuit would be if you have any major high draw appliances on that circiut already, ie. Fridge, Microwave, Garbage Disposal, a lot of high wattage lighting, etc. If you don't know the amps then you can also divide total watts by voltage to get your amps.

Also when it comes to effeciency (lumes to watt) HO T5's are more effecient than PC's.

A typical 65w PC produces 4000 lumens and a 54w HO T5 produces 5000 lumens, each apprx respectively. So a PC produces 61.5 lumens per watt while the HO T5 produces 92.6 lumens per watt.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

sfcallen and Jdowns -

Thanks for your imput guys. You are making me feel better about the possibility of going with the ahsupply kits and not overdoing it with load on the circuit.

With regards to the effeciency of the T5s vs the PCs, I know about this, and I am not too concerned with it. In either case I should be able to get an ample amount of light in the tank. Heat isn't too much of an issue either. My canopy is going to be rather tall and the back will be open to allow heat to escape.

I realize the 20 amp circuit might be overkill, but the way I see it, it is better to go overkill while you are doing it so that it doesn't need to be done again. If I ever erected a high tech reef tank or something, the circuit would already be in place.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Wow..look at this fixture on sale...cheap

http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=141&products_id=1589


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## Spiritwind (Feb 2, 2008)

Sunlight supply = Tek ,Tek-II is the newer version if you found something cheaper with sunlight supply I am not sure what you are looking at. Ice caps are only more expensive because of the ballast, everything else I think is pretty much equal. When I looked just two months ago, separate was definitely more expensive and they didnt even include things like the wire caps and screws. Just adding to the list of things to do, not very costly but might as well buy the kits.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

waterfaller1 said:


> Wow..look at this fixture on sale...cheap
> 
> http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=141&products_id=1589


waterfaller - 

Wow! That is fairly inexpensive. They kind of look like private label coralife fixtures. The housing looks identical to a coralife. Is it me or the picture quality? It doesn't look like the light output is that great.

I think this time around, I am going to lean towards retro kits. For one, my ballast on my current Coralife fixture over my 29 is starting to go and I have been hesitant about opening up the fixture to find a replacement until it actually blows. Wiring it up myself, it would be in an easy place to see and getting the part number for replacement (I would think) would be easier. Make sense?



Spiritwind said:


> Sunlight supply = Tek ,Tek-II is the newer version if you found something cheaper with sunlight supply I am not sure what you are looking at. Ice caps are only more expensive because of the ballast, everything else I think is pretty much equal. When I looked just two months ago, separate was definitely more expensive and they didnt even include things like the wire caps and screws. Just adding to the list of things to do, not very costly but might as well buy the kits.


Spiritwind - Thanks for your imput. I am still curious as to Wasserpest's response regarding how he would piece things together. Ultimately, I wouldn't necessarily expect it to save too much money, but you get exactly what you want rather than buying a kit and making a substituion. Atleast in theory.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> I know this has probably already been done, but I want some oppinions from people that have used either type of light in their setup or what would be even better is to hear from people that have had BOTH setups. Let me define what what my goals are.
> 
> 1. I am going to be starting up a high tech tank with dual filters, inline reactor, heater, CO2, etc. This tank will be a 75 or 90 gallon tank, and I am currently building the stand and (soon) canopy for the tank.
> 
> ...



I have used both types of retrofit lighting systems and both are good, but the T5s are definitely better. They have more facets on the reflectors and because of the small shape of the bulbs they reflect even more light and retain even less heat. 

For a 75 or 90 gallon tank you can easily get away with using 4 x 54 watt T5s. I have a Tek 4 x 54 watt light on my 75 gallon tank and a 4 x 39 watt T5 retrofit setup over my 90-P (50 gallon) with the IceCap SLR reflectors. 

I run both lights in the following manner. Both setups have 2 banks of 2 bulbs. I run 2 bulbs for 10 hours / day and all 4 bulbs for 5 hours in the middle of the day. The plants grow really well in this setup and I can grow any plant I like in this amount of light. Running your setup in this manner is a significant savings in electricity over the 6 x 55 watt AH supply setup you proposed.

I recommend getting the T5 ballasts from www.ballastwise.com. Using a T5 specific ballast helps the bulbs to run more efficiently and last longer. I've been using their ballasts for 10 months and I'm very pleased. They stay cool to the touch and perform very well. 

I recommend using the Tek II or the Ice Cap SLR reflectors.

I recommend using Giesemann Midday bulbs. 

Here's a shot of my 90-P with the Ice Cap reflectors and the Giesemann bulbs.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

I think Aaron gives excellent information here. I have a 90g that I'll be running 4-54w T5's with Tek II reflectors (they have 29 different bends in them) with a similar photoperiod...Although I have yet to use these fixtures over my aquarium (which is still being set-up), as of now I have only used them for terrestrial plant growth (to start some seedlings) and they work great and seem as bright (if not moreso) than the 400w metal halide my neighbor has (the benefit of better reflectors)! I also am using 4 geisemann midday, and although I had originally planned to do 2 6k and 2 10k bulbs, I like the light so much (aesthetically that is) that I think Ill stick with all 6k middays. 

I also wanted to note that I'm a big big fan of the IceCap 660 ballast...from their specs:
"Ice Cap Ballasts are the coolest ballasts available using 40% less electricity and burning 40% brighter. Their unique circuitry prevents premature lamp burn out and fading associated with VHO lamps. You can run VHO, HO, and STD lamps in any combination. In summary, the Icecap 660 is a versatile and powerful ballast. IceCap Model 660 is the most versatile and powerful ballast. 

Specific features include:
Unsurpassed Versatility - A Model 660 can operate up to 16 lamp feet with a total of 464 rated lamp watts.
Individual lamps can be 2 through 6 feet each. This corresponds to 12 different lamp configurations. Maximum light output with VHO and HO lamps.
Cold temperature starts to -40 degrees Celsius."

And I think they're fully dimmable (if you're into that kinda thing). The only problem here is that you don't have as much control over your photoperiod because you only have one ballast, so your lights are either off or on (no 2 lights on and 2 lights off), unless you have something like the profilux that will randomly generate thunderstorms and cloudy days using your ballasts dimming capabilities....but I digress...

I've seen the IceCap 660 running side by side with another fixture that was using the same lighting configuration and the IceCap definitely was brighter...a lot brighter.

And by the way: nice looking tank, Aaron.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

ColeMan said:


> And by the way: nice looking tank, Aaron.


Thanks ColeMan. 

I'm sure those IceCap ballasts are really nice as well. I chose the ballastwise ballasts to save a little money as I didn't plan to dim the bulbs. Dimmable bulbs would be the ultimate setup, but it starts getting pricey.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I've always heard good things about Workhorse ballasts; those are what AH supply uses, plus that's the ballast in the Solar Catalina fixture Waterfaller linked.

Incidentally, I have the same fixture, off Ebay, and I'm quite impressed with it!


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## JDowns (Mar 6, 2008)

AaronT said:


> Dimmable bulbs would be the ultimate setup, but it starts getting pricey.


Mmmm....Lutron HiLume dimmable ballasts with an EcoSystem controller. 

Nice thing though dimmable ballasts are fairly new technology and it won't be to long before they are affordable and common place. I'd give it a year to two years and dimmable ballasts will be the "new common thing" in the hobby.


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## intermediate_noob (Jan 23, 2007)

Biscuit, there was this link floating around (no pun intended) a few months back. I cannot personally vouch for the fixture, but it might be worth a look:

http://www.prolighting.com/4lat5flhibay.html

They also have a "scratch and dent" section where the same fixture would go for 100 dollars if they were to get them in stock. They use very high quality T5 ballasts in these setups, which is really what you are wanting to get when you go DIY is the ability to choose a good ballast like Advance or IceCap.

I have a IceCap 660 that is currently running T12 VHOs. I am going to convert to T5s with individual reflectors someday. I have also used WorkHorse ballasts from Fulham for PC lighting and they work great. Take a look at http://www.naturallighting.com for them as they seem to have the cheapest prices for most of this stuff.

Now, the one thing is how high your lights are above the water. I know that the individual reflectors from AH Supply (PC) or Tek or the IceCap are probably designed for an optimum distance, but I have no idea what that is. I know that my 6' long T12 VHOs I run on my 135 provide much more light only 2 inches from the water compared to the 2 48" VHO bulbs that are almost 9 inches above the water on my 55. I would defer to the experts out there info about this and the optimum height.

And as long as I am throwing out the advice like I am such an expert (yeah right) I have to share an experience. When it comes to lighting, be a Boy Scout and be prepared. There is nothing worse than a light burning out and not having a replacement and then having to order one online because no one in town stocks them. I use 24 watt PCs on one 55 and 72" VHO T12 bi-pin bulbs on my 135. No one carries the 24 watt PCs in town or in the next town and the 72" VHOs were almost 55 dollars a piece here in town (got them for 20 online with free shipping). The moral to this story, stock up when the sales are on and try to find free shipping. And with a 48" tank, in a pinch, you can run Home Depot or Lowe's lower output bulbs to get _some_ light in there while you are waiting for the correct HO bulbs to arrive.

Just my two cents as always.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

And since this thread was updated...i might: have you made any progress in regards to your lighting dilemma?


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

ColeMan said:


> And since this thread was updated...i might: have you made any progress in regards to your lighting dilemma?


Coleman -

I am still up in the air a bit. I appreciate the comments people have made and I am still taking things into consideration. My space requirements as well as my end goal might be the dictating factors with this to some degree.

As of now, there isn't a huge rush to get anything because my budget is on hold. There was a post for 4 brand new 55W ahsupply fixtures a few nights ago and I was tempted to snatch it up just because it was a good deal. I showed the thread to my wife and got the "you're not serious are you?" look.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

you know, after i installed my ready fits into my canopy i noticed that there would barely be any room left for another bank of lights - i could squeeze an extra individual bulb and reflector in there, but it'd be pretty tight after that!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> I showed the thread to my wife and got the "you're not serious are you?" look.


OMG I KNOW that look!  We need to get our spouses together into a support group... then again, scratch that- they'd band together against us! ROFL


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

I use 2 GE 6500K T5HO's under Icecap SLR's over my 90gal now and I get more than enough light in my tank where I have to mount them quite a few inches up. You don't need a 4 lamp setup for either a 75/90gal using T5's, if you want to implement a burst all you need is 1 additional lamp. T5HO under an SLR or Tek II reflectors are no joke and PC's don't even come remotely close. 

I used Corallife Aqualights back in my newb days for 9 months, while the AH reflectors are definitely better the lamps lost most of their intensity after only 4 months of use.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

lauraleellbp said:


> OMG I KNOW that look!  We need to get our spouses together into a support group... then again, scratch that- they'd band together against us! ROFL


LauraLee -

I think we are the ones that need a support group, and to be honnest with you I would probably be the ringleader by showing everybody different ways to get around their spouses to fund their hobby. My wife's hobbies consist of trying to save my family money by buying things for next to nothing or extremely cheap, and here I am talking about blowing $300 on a lighting system for an aquarium. Notice how I do things in stages? First I build a stand and canopy out of expensive hardwood, then I buy the tank, then the lights, etc. Not all at once. You have to pace yourself!  And here my wife thought I would be saving money by doing it myself! Ha! I keep telling her that I need a bigger tank so I can grow out some plants and sell them. She doesn't realize that selling the plants won't even offset the electric bill for the tank alone. LOL.




mrkookm said:


> I use 2 GE 6500K T5HO's under Icecap SLR's over my 90gal now and I get more than enough light in my tank where I have to mount them quite a few inches up. You don't need a 4 lamp setup for either a 75/90gal using T5's, if you want to implement a burst all you need is 1 additional lamp. T5HO under an SLR or Tek II reflectors are no joke and PC's don't even come remotely close.
> 
> I used Corallife Aqualights back in my newb days for 9 months, while the AH reflectors are definitely better the lamps lost most of their intensity after only 4 months of use.


Mrkookm -

If I went with two T5s like you are saying, would you still consider that to be a high tech setup? I do want this to be a CO2 injected tank with daily ferts, etc. If what you are saying is true, then I am highly interested. I might do exactly what you are suggesting and go with a 4 bulb setup with one of them being seperated for a burst and one for actinics (total of 4 ballasts).


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

> Mrkookm -
> 
> If I went with two T5s like you are saying, would you still consider that to be a high tech setup? I do want this to be a CO2 injected tank with daily ferts, etc. If what you are saying is true, then I am highly interested. I might do exactly what you are suggesting and go with a 4 bulb setup with one of them being seperated for a burst and one for actinics (total of 4 ballasts).


I totally understand your doubts here but don't be fooled because _I only have 2 HO's_ over my 90  If you knew my plant list then you'll understand that low tech will never apply to me  and Co2 is a must. 

The more experienced members might have an _x_ bulb T5 fixture over their tank but one should not assume that they have tons of light beaming in. Their fixtures are suspended high over their tanks so the intensity going in is not what you think it is. My 2 light setup is mounted 11" over my tank, sure I could go lower but I'm not after fast growth and neither do I use standard EI routines.

I use a Ballastwise DXE4HO5U which I now have been using for 2yrs. Back then I used it to fire supplemental fluorescent lamps during my halide days, more recently to OD T8's and now my T5HO's. Not once has it ever skipped a beat so I *highly* recommend their ballasts, they are unknown to most but specs are top notch. 

You do not need to get 4 separate ballast for individual lamp burning but instead use 2 DXE2HO5U2 2 lamp ballast to burn 2 lamps at a time, 3 to 4 simultaneously and/or burst, whatever you choose. I would never suggest anyone to get a 1 lamp ballast...its a waste.

BTW I also agree with AaronT to stick with a ballast designed to fire T5HO (*Programmed Rapid Start w/ EOL*), never an instant start ballast as it shortens the lamps life. 

Icecap Ballast....hmmm :icon_roll Well I'm sure you're not planning on adding in some corals in the foreground of your planted tank so trust me you do not need an Icecap 660 or 430 to fire lamps over your planted tank. :eek5: :hihi:


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## airborne_r6 (May 2, 2008)

YankyTexan said:


> IME amps trip breakers not watts. Add your amps up. Also, most residential breakers trip at 80% rated (ie. a 20 amp breaker trips at 16 amps).
> 
> If you upgrade your breaker to a larger size make sure the wire is rated to handle it.


Breakers don't trip at 80% of their rating, they trip at or above their rating. Their rating is the maximum continuous current that the breaker can carry. National Electrical Code (and most local building codes) allow for the load of all devices on the circuit to be a maximum of 75% of the rating of the circuit protection device (the breaker). Watts is the easiest way to figure out the load. To get watts, multiply amps of the breaker times the voltage of the circuit; 120 volts X 20 amps = 2400 watts X 75% safety factor = 1800 watts that can safely be run on a 20 amp circuit. 120V X 15A X 75% = 1350 W for a 15 amp circuit. Now just add up all the things you are powering and if the total is less than the calculation for your breaker you are good. 

That being said, that is what building codes allow. You can actually run power all the way up until the breaker trips safely. That is the breakers job, to protect the wire from over current draw. It is inconvenient and could potentially damage equipment and the stasis of the tank from repeated on/off. It can actually damage the breaker also so I wouldn't recomend it.

As far as upgrading the wire size if you increase the breaker size. 14AWG wire is actually rated to handle 20A but is only allowed by building code to be run on 15A circuits. 12 AWG wire normally used in 20A circuits is rated to 30A. This higher amperages as I stated here, 20A on 14AWG and 30A on 12AWG, are not allowed by building code but are SAFE. The wire is rated to handle those currents. 

BiscuitSlayer:
In your build journal you mentioned using some leviton digital timers. I use one of those on my outside lights at my house and it works great, except you can only adjust the time in 1/2 hour increments. There is no clock in it. I don't think I payed nearly that much for it. You might shop around.


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## airborne_r6 (May 2, 2008)

I would look at this timer instead
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/[email protected]@@@[email protected]@@@&pid=974591

The cheaper intermatic one won't work with ballasts, motors or compact flourescents, only with incandescent.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Hey Biscuit- picked out your lighting yet? Just curious...


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

lauraleellbp said:


> Hey Biscuit- picked out your lighting yet? Just curious...


I haven't picked anything out, but I am leaning towards a T5 setup. I like the idea of high output with less energy consumtion as well as less heat. I might overdo things a bit, but not necessarily all at once. I like the burst idea and I really want to implement actinics.

For pictures and display purposes, I want it to look like it is high noon over my tank.

Unfortuanately, it might be quite a while before I am able to buy the lights. My budget is pretty much blown this year and I have a lot of other projects that I need to put money into around the house. I am glad that I started this thread though. I got a lot of very good information out of it. More oppinions than general questions which is what I was really shooting for.

When I finally do erect this tank, I think that it is going to have a lot of bells and wistles that give me exactly what I have been dreaming of. I wish I had the cash to get it going now. I would rather wait though and do it right without cutting any corners just to get it operatinal. For once in my life I am starting to show signs of patients.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

T5! I got to tell you BiscuitSlayer, I will never use anything else unless something calls for MH. T5, the smart choice


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## iverson387 (Oct 23, 2007)

i went with these tek kits. they work great and are much brighter than my compact flourescents. i also went with the giesmann 6k midday bulbs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/T5-Tek-Light-2x...VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

i would get 2 of these kits for your tank which would be plenty.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

> I would rather wait though and do it right without cutting any corners just to get it operatinal.


Thats the way to go Biscuit! :thumbsup:


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I haven't made any final decisions yet, but here is my tentative plan. I was thinking about going with 3 T5 bulbs with one being for a burst 3 or 4 hours, and the other two being the main "daylight" bulbs. I was also thinking about getting a 2 x 55W ahsupply fixtures for my actinic lighting. Since I am not going to be running the AH Supply fixtures for more than a few hours a day, I am not really concerned about their effectiveness or power consumption as they will be for aesthetics only.

Now I would just need to figure out how to mount the retro kits to maximize effectiveness. I was thinking about mounting the PC fixtures in the front of my canopy and mounting the T5 fixtures in the middle trying to center them as closely as possible.

Decisions... decisions...

I am finding the T5 retro kits a little confusing. I guess mainly because of how the ballasts work in conjunction with the number of bulbs they will support vs. how I want to use them. I have only had experience with PC lighting to date, so I guess I am a little apprehensive with the T5's.

The cost is a little bothersome to me as well. With the T5s, I am thinking things are going to run upwards of $400 + (including the upgraded ballasts that mrkookm suggested) not including the bulbs whereas I can get the 6 X 55W ahs kit for $189 not including bulbs. I know there will be savings with the power savings of using T5, but it is still a lot of money up front. The other thing is bulb availability. I know I can go to places fairly close to my house and pick up a 55 or 65W PC bulb without too much of an issue for around $25 in a pinch.

One train of thought for me is that I could always fall back on the PC fixtures if mounted properly in a pinch for main lights should I loose multiple T5 bulbs or a ballast. There might be some advantages to having both in the canopy.


Correct me if I am wrong, but if I wanted the 3 T5 bulbs with one being used for a burst, wouldn't I need two seperate ballasts with two seperate plugs to accomplish this? The end goal is to use multiple timers to turn on different lights at different times (dawn/dusk, burst, and mains).


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

> but if I wanted the 3 T5 bulbs with one being used for a burst, wouldn't I need two seperate ballasts with two seperate plugs to accomplish this?


Correct.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Well, if that is the case, I think What I might do to start is to go with your suggestion mrkookm and get a pair of T5s. I'll run that for a while and mount my actinics dead center. Should I have any problems with the T5s, I can fall back on the PCs in an emergency.

If I want to upgrade to the burst solution, I'll buy a single T5 kit and just shuffle things around a bit under the hood.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Biscuit I kid you not when I say that I have only 2 6500 GE T5 over my 90gal mounted 16" as of today and I get plenty of light into my tank, it's no BS  . If I really want to kick plants into OD all I have to do is to lower the fixture and colors will pop!

Configured with the correct reflectors/ballast combination (*Tek II or IceCap SLR's + programmed start ballast*) their output is unmatched, no other standard florescent combo compares. There are several cheap T5 fixtures out there which I'm sure are good for the money but at the end of the day you get what you pay for because the manufactures skimp here & there to cut costs. The performance I'm sure is ok but will not compare to a correctly configure fixture. Look at AHS supply combo's, we all know how great they are right? The only reason they get such high recommendations is due to their *reflectors*, there are no special high output lamps, wires, plugs or ballast (just a good brand that will last)  




> If I want to upgrade to the burst solution, I'll buy a single T5 kit and just shuffle things around a bit under the hood


Seems like you've got it


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Have you seen this? This is a really good deal IMO. 
http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5...tput_Retrofit_Kit_w!_Bulbs_by_Sunlight_Supply

It comes with your choice of bulbs for $299.00


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## Daud (Jun 23, 2007)

What is funny on the pricing of the retro kits is that they are more expensive than the complete fixture.

BTw, the ballast mrkookm pointed to is now on sale:
 DXE2HO5U


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## thefishmanlives (May 20, 2008)

Do you think I would get better light over a 29 from the catalina solar 30" 4x24 or a 150x1 metal halide? Now that im hearing a few poor things about the catalina reflectors im leaning towards the halide. Would this affect me with a 29 gallon though? Or will it still be more hten enough to grow the best quality pklants possible? Im not look for good or fine plants I want the best plants I can grow. I do not want lighting to hold me back at all. I do not care if plants grow "fine" with medium light. I want that shiny waxy finish on the plants that you can only get with hi hi lite. Do yo uthink the halide would be a better choice? Im really not that concerned with spread either as my tank is scaped with low light plants on the edges.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)




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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

i have a 110g tank 18x60x24 with canopy , i added 6 t5 54w ho's with 3 ballasts from Sunlight supply t5 retro's, i lay out a peace of 1/4 plywood to fit in my canopy i then put my 3 ballasts in the back of the plywood and ran the wires thru the wood to the front of the plywood {witch i painted with white paint} i staggered each light end to end , i bought the retro kits from Reef Geek.com the ballasts are very thin an long and they do stay cool to the touch, the extra plywood does add extra weight to the canopy , i wood like to try a sheet of 1/4 of polycarbonate it coast more than plywood and it's just as strong and lighter and you can drill into it and tap into too, i use a small sheet of it underneath my tank to mount my Co2 reactors and bubble counter and a co2 Controller and a Hydro Heater to it


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## fritz (Jun 3, 2008)

I've purchased these before (the Tek retros at the bottom) and I was very happy with them. I upgraded to the icecap reflectors for an additional $2.

*https://diyreef.authsecure.com/shop/index.php?cPath=55_89

*


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## botan (Sep 23, 2007)

Biscuitslayer,

What is the interior height of your canopy? Reason I ask is:
I built a very nice (IMHO) low line conopy for my 75. Stood just over 3.5 inches above the rim of the tank. This put the lamps just over 2 inchs above the then water line. Inside of this really nice looking canopy I stuffed 3 AH Supply 55 watt units, 3 ballasts, 6 lights. Tight fit but got 'er done. Beautiful, I really was proud of its low profile. Unfortunately I had no idea that any kind of fluorescent light could put out so much heat. I was easily burning off an inch of water in a 12 hour light cycle and raising the tank temperature 6 degrees (76F to 82F), with the thermo sensor 14 inches below the rim! No, I did not install the little round vents that came with the unit. Remember my knowledge base told me that fluorescent lights did not put out much heat. So anyway I added another 2.5 inches to the height of the canopy ruining my lovely low profile, but still acceptable to my sense of asthetics and lower my upper water limit a couple of inches. Got no real improvement on the heat problem. So now I am looking at new reflectors, full 48 inch ones, and new end caps to convert over to linear T5 HO's. According to the Fulham web site (http://www.fulham.com/) each of the workhorse 7 ballasts that came from AH is capable of running 4 54w linear T5HO's. So do you think running 12 of those would lower my heat? Just kidding. 
Just want you to be aware that Compact Fluorescents and their ballasts put out a lot of heat. As for the set up, I really do like having three rows of lights each on its own timer, with staggered start/stop times.

So does anyone out there know what is the heat output for various lamps? I have yet to find any discussion of the heat issue anywhere. It's like trying to locate information concerning the heigth range of various plants. Sites are good at telling you how wide they might get, or whether they are are fore, mid or back - ground plants in their opinion, but seldom warn you if they are going to reach the ceiling. With lights they discuss luems, watts, color, etc. but not heat. Why is that?


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

botan -

The total height of my canopy is 12 3/4" and the inside height will be 10". There should be 8" of room between the lights and the very top of the tank. The canopy has a completely open back, so I am not too concerned with heat build up. If heat is a problem, I will add some fans to the back of the canopy to vent heat out.

I actually designed the canopy with a high profile that rivals reefer canopies. I wanted something that I could open up and not be worried about it being unstable and still provide enough room between the fixtures and the water so that I wouldn't have to worry about the lights being too close to the water both for heat reasons and for splasing reasons. I didn't want to use glass tops for the tank.


As far as your heat question goes, I personally don't know. I do know that the PC lights get hotter in a sense because they are packed into a smaller area. The T5s run cooler because they are spread out more and they allow more contact with the air over a larger area.

Currently I am leaning towards running a pair of AHS PCs in the front (actnics) and 2 t5s in the rear. Ultimately I have some time to decide as the whole project has stalled out due to funds.


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## botan (Sep 23, 2007)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> botan -
> 
> 
> 
> the whole project has stalled out due to funds.


 
Oddly enough my conversion project to linear T5's is also stalled for precisely the same reason. Imagine that, we're in the same tank. 

Bo


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## botan (Sep 23, 2007)

Forgot to mention: The back of my canopy was also left opened. But I reckon that 10 plus inches vs. about 4 inches will give you a lot more air movement as well as options.

Result of all this: I seriously doubt that I will ever consider Compact Fluorescents for anything other than table lamps.

Bo


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