# what Substrate u use for shrimp?



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Akadama 2 red line is another soil (find at bonsai stores)

The most widely accepted soil is ada amazonia.

Fluval shrimp stratum appears to have good and bad batches, so it's hit or miss with people.


----------



## Danimals (Sep 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Akadama 2 red line is another soil (find at bonsai stores)
> 
> The most widely accepted soil is ada amazonia.
> 
> Fluval shrimp stratum appears to have good and bad batches, so it's hit or miss with people.


I actually saw that thread on another shrimp forum...do you think there's any basis in fact for this? Granted the OP I read didn't even post his water parameters and went immediately to bashing the stratum but so many people agreed with him I'm wondering if there's a reason for it.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Danimals said:


> I actually saw that thread on another shrimp forum...do you think there's any basis in fact for this? Granted the OP I read didn't even post his water parameters and went immediately to bashing the stratum but so many people agreed with him I'm wondering if there's a reason for it.


mordalphus uses it in several tanks and has shrimp breeding and babies lasting in it.


----------



## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

The main people that said they had problems with fluval stratum were few and they were all high-very high quality, very sensitive shrimp, like bkk's and such. It's enough though _That for me_, I'm personally staying away from it. But lots of people have had great luck with it with crs and any pretty much any other species. The biggies outside of that that ive seen in successful breeding tanks were Ada Amazonia, Ada Malaya, netlea soil, or something totally inert like sand.


----------



## joon (Jul 17, 2004)

I'M SERIOUS! 

for me, fluval subs. is the easiest and cheapest to get
but it sounds like its not the best

im building one more stand like that in my sm fishroom
(for holding 4 of 20gal long tank or 8 of 10gal tanks, 
if i want to build a shrimp breeding system , what size of tank will be better?)

i will buy Ada Amazonia soils then!

how many bags should i buy for 10gal tank?
how many bags should i buy for 20 gal long tank?
how many bags should i buy for 4 of 20gal long tank? and is there cheaper way to buy a lots of Ada Amazonia?


im starting with crs , tiger shrimp , rcs and yellow , eventually i will try higher shrimps
any advice will be helpful for me


----------



## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Akadama 2 red line is another soil (find at bonsai stores)
> 
> The most widely accepted soil is ada amazonia.
> 
> Fluval shrimp stratum appears to have good and bad batches, so it's hit or miss with people.


didnt someone on another thread say akadama is not good for shrimps?


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

TeamTeal said:


> didnt someone on another thread say akadama is not good for shrimps?


Don't know where you heard that but it's the most common substrate amongst breeders and folks in asia...


----------



## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

Jeffww said:


> Don't know where you heard that but it's the most common substrate amongst breeders and folks in asia...


i read about it Here


----------



## Danimals (Sep 15, 2011)

joon said:


> I'M SERIOUS!
> 
> for me, fluval subs. is the easiest and cheapest to get
> but it sounds like its not the best
> ...



Dear God...

Just hurry up and open your own LFS already! Lol!


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

TeamTeal said:


> i read about it Here


It lowers GH. You have to add mineral mud or whatever to keep GH up to par...that's all


----------



## jameslibtech (Sep 20, 2011)

my shrimp love the evi stratum from fluval


----------



## go9ma123 (Oct 5, 2007)

I have used ADA amazonia soils and africana for my shrimps.
Also have used eco-complete and Seachem Flourite long time ago and had good experiance with them.
I bought 2 bags of eco-complete again since it was on sale and bought 2 bags of fluval stratum to try them out.
You can also buy red sea flora base which is like ADA africana soil and little cheaper price.


----------



## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

Jeffww said:


> It lowers GH. You have to add mineral mud or whatever to keep GH up to par...that's all



It's not quite that simple. Akadama soil will strip your water faster than you can blink regardless of what additives you use. It will drag very hard water down to 0 overnight. Some breeders do use it, but their water systems are huge and they usually have a constant water exchange going on. They don't use R/O water either. Just straight from the tap or well. That's why they use Akadama soil. To be blunt... it should be avoided.



Want to know the best and cheapest substrate? NONE.


----------



## Alpha Pro Breeders (Jan 26, 2010)

TeamTeal said:


> didnt someone on another thread say akadama is not good for shrimps?


Google just about any substrate and you will find someone that doesn't think it's safe for shrimp. I use Fluval Stratum with great results in several of my tanks. I have it with my King Kongs and red wines for over a month now without any problems at all, along with several other shrimp species for several months.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Most folks (most, NOT all, just generalizing) who have had issues with either of the Fluval Stratum products have rinsed it, packed it down harshly or otherwise treated it like it's some sort of cheap, blue aquarium gravel from a big box store. 

While I wouldn't pick it over ADA products when it comes to planted tanks, I use it exclusively for shrimp because I've found it super-cheap on my end. 

Never had big breakdowns with it, never had issues replanting, still looks nice. Been using it since it was first released in the states in all kinds of tanks, water parameters, etc.


----------



## CrazyCatPeekin (Aug 15, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Most folks (most, NOT all, just generalizing) who have had issues with either of the Fluval Stratum products have rinsed it...


The bag that I got instructed me to rinse it. I gave it a light rinse in a stainless strainer to remove the dust and then added it to the tank. I didn't pack it, just spread it out. It seems to be doing fine. Should I have not rinsed it?


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

As with all soil-ish/clay-ish substrates, it tends to break down more with rinsing. 

I think (me, as in not fact and not based on hundreds of experiments, folks) it does best when you add it to your tank by cup/scoopfuls, scape it, dry start your plants or plant and then slowly fill with water. Never had cloudiness that way and it's held up well for me.


----------



## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

I've used Amazonia and FSS (fluval shrimp stratum) for shrimps,

gotta say, I like Amazonia much better.

Plants grow better in it, better consistency, better color, shrimp breed more readily in amazonia tanks. The 4+ week waiting period just for ammonia is awful though.


----------



## bsk (Aug 18, 2010)

I've been using Up Aqua shrimp sand for about a month now and I'm happy with it. It does not leach ammonia so there was no cycling process.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I disagree with the "better color" and "better consistancy", the FSS is a very attractive soil that doesn't lose color like amazonia.

The only soil I've used that looks even better than FSS is Mr. Aqua soil. 

And I have about 20 kg of up aqua shrimp sand, and it looks even better (in the bag) than the Mr. Aqua stuff.

Amazonia is great for shrimp, but it's not the most attractive or uniform soil



Senior Shrimpo said:


> I've used Amazonia and FSS (fluval shrimp stratum) for shrimps,
> 
> gotta say, I like Amazonia much better.
> 
> Plants grow better in it, better consistency, better color, shrimp breed more readily in amazonia tanks. The 4+ week waiting period just for ammonia is awful though.


----------



## Buff Daddy (Oct 19, 2010)

When I started using FSS, my tanks got stable and have remained so. I do have sand in the tanks also, mostly for decorative reasons, by partitioning substrate areas. PFS in one and Tahitian Moon in the other. While the shrimp "sift" the FSS, they sift the sand much more so in both tanks. I like FSS. But I like it in a combo...


----------



## chiefroastbeef (Feb 14, 2011)

I too use FSS, never rinsed it though, I just pour right in, doesn't cloud as long as you lightly splash the water.


----------



## Bliasuk (Aug 12, 2010)

The Ebi Gold or Benibachi Black Soil are by far the best for CRS, they buffer the water perfectly and last about 6 months longer than any other shrimp substrate.
http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/substrate.html


----------



## Chikorita (Dec 16, 2007)

Bliasuk said:


> The Ebi Gold or Benibachi Black Soil are by far the best for CRS, they buffer the water perfectly and last about 6 months longer than any other shrimp substrate.
> http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/substrate.html


 
what happen when the substrate expire ???


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Bliasuk said:


> The Ebi Gold or Benibachi Black Soil are by far the best for CRS, they buffer the water perfectly and last about 6 months longer than any other shrimp substrate.
> http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/substrate.html


Are you speaking for experience or because that website says so?


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Can't believe you fancy Canadians (really, sincerity and envy here) haven't brought up the fact that you can get Netlea soil and us - your neighbors to the south - cannot. Ha.


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Bliasuk

Read post# 86 and the rest of Imke's comments.
http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/6010-Tiger-Valley-2.0?p=69916&highlight=#post69916

She clearly says that it started to decompose around Aug. Just under a year.
From what I've seen and been told Amazonia last longer than a year.


----------



## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

I use ada amazonia, works for me.


----------



## Bliasuk (Aug 12, 2010)

I am speaking from experience. 

After about a year it stops buffering the water, i have not experienced the substrate crumbling. All shrimp tanks should be using RO water with added minerals, this also helps the substrate get around 6 months longer than the manufacturers guidelines.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's wholly a misconception that all shrimp tanks should be using RO water. Read through this forum and you'll see RO water is usually only used in situations where your publicly available tap water is horrible or you have a super-sensitive species.

And buffering ability of any substrate is going to depend on setup, parameters, plants, bioload, et al. It's not going to be the same for everybody.


----------



## Bliasuk (Aug 12, 2010)

I understand where you are coming from but the risk is never worth the gamble. With RO water you know what your getting and what your adding to it. With tap water it can change at anytime without warning, different times of the year the water can vary drastically.

RO water is a must.


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Imke was using tap water and it broke her substrate down in just under a year.


----------



## Bliasuk (Aug 12, 2010)

Imke is a female


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Sorry. I am aware of that. Edited my post.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Tap water can definitely vary. And does. But if you know what you're working with, treat your water appropriately and aren't raising super-sensitive shrimp, RO/DI water is absolutely not necessary. That's a fact.

It's great in that you know precisely what's in and not in the water. And great that you have complete control. But hundreds of people here on this forum and others get by just fine without RO/DI water.


----------



## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Tap water can definitely vary. And does. But if you know what you're working with, treat your water appropriately and aren't raising super-sensitive shrimp, RO/DI water is absolutely not necessary. That's a fact.
> 
> It's great in that you know precisely what's in and not in the water. And great that you have complete control. But hundreds of people here on this forum and others get by just fine without RO/DI water.


but its nice to have!  I mix it 50-50 with tap


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

johnny313 said:


> but its nice to have!


For sure.

I just wish it were easier to filter, say, 2,000 gallons of RO water every few days. Ha.


----------



## Danimals (Sep 15, 2011)

So I'm fairly newish to shrimp keeping...from what I'm gathering...if I use a substrate I have to literally tear down the entire tank and re-do it every 6ish months...?

My water parameters (well water) are actually close to ideal for keep CRS and I find it I just cut it a bit with some distilled I get the desired results, do I still need to replace the substrate that often?


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Nope, and you can let your tank go 2 years or more. Most people rescape more often than that though


----------



## Danimals (Sep 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Nope, and you can let your tank go 2 years or more. Most people rescape more often than that though


Hmm...seems the entire point of shrimp substrate seems to be to buffer the water, if my parameters are naturally close to ideal, anyone got some other ideas for me to use instead of this? Getting tired of the cloudy water/crumblines of it all.

Going to keep plants in it tho.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Nope, and you can let your tank go 2 years or more.


Some of those fancy Canadians and with their fancy Netlea and other Asian soils sometimes go 4+ years.

That sound you hear? It's me being bitter over the lack of Netlea in the states.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Speaking of Netlea, how thick should I put down in my 20gal for my crystals? not planting it at all, so don't care about sloping or deep enough for roots.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Danimals said:


> Hmm...seems the entire point of shrimp substrate seems to be to buffer the water, if my parameters are naturally close to ideal, anyone got some other ideas for me to use instead of this? Getting tired of the cloudy water/crumblines of it all.
> 
> Going to keep plants in it tho.


That's not the entire point... With aquasoil, babies survive better because the whole surface of each piece of aquasoil is teeming with microfauna. These are the things that adults and babies graze on when food is unavailable.

Don't get me wrong, you can breed CRS in a barebottom tank if your parameters are correct and stable, but it's much easier with a little layer of aquasoil.


----------



## Chikorita (Dec 16, 2007)

IF i want to change the substrate in a tank ...
Do I need to take all the older substrate in there out and put the new one in ....
OR put the new one over the old one ...

OR remove all the plants and shrimps then redo the whole tank ???
I hope not .... 

pliz advise
thanks


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Chikorita said:


> IF i want to change the substrate in a tank ...
> Do I need to take all the older substrate in there out and put the new one in ....
> OR put the new one over the old one ...
> 
> ...


Depends on the substrate. If it's an ADA product? You'll have to start your tank over from scratch. 

If it's inert? You could gently and slowly remove the old and replace it.


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Bliasuk said:


> All shrimp tanks should be using RO water with added minerals, this also helps the substrate get around 6 months longer than the manufacturers guidelines.


 
Really depends on what your water is like. Mine is practically RO water right out of the tap. I’m over a year now on my main tank, and it’s perams are all still perfect.


----------



## Lesley (Mar 18, 2011)

So no one has answered the question that was asked as far as I can see. What is the Best Substrate for a Planted Shrimp Tank? I'd like to know as I am just starting out with 10 RCS in a 10 Gallon Tank. Thanks


----------



## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Planted shrimp tank would be aquasoil..


----------



## Lesley (Mar 18, 2011)

I called a LFS that's been in business for 30 years & asked them about aquasoil & the guy told me he's never heard of it........... Is there another name it goes by?


----------



## soc200 (Feb 26, 2011)

If your LFS hasn't heard of aquasoil...you need to go somewhere else. He does not know anything about substrates or planted tanks.

http://www.adgshop.com/Substrate_System_s/1.htm


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

soc200 said:


> If your LFS hasn't heard of aquasoil...you need to go somewhere else. He does not know anything about substrates or planted tanks.
> 
> http://www.adgshop.com/Substrate_System_s/1.htm



What you just said makes you sound like an elitist jerk. Just want to let you know. ADA is *not *the king of planted tanks. You can make tanks JUST as successful and beautiful without the overpriced products that ADA sells. All you need is some motivation and some basic horticultural knowledge and aquarium knowledge and you'll be fine....


----------



## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Lesley said:


> So no one has answered the question that was asked as far as I can see. What is the Best Substrate for a Planted Shrimp Tank? I'd like to know as I am just starting out with 10 RCS in a 10 Gallon Tank. Thanks



Fine im going to answer it.

There are several factors required to be-called "best" for shrimps.

1st. Buffer power -> It seems ADA aquasoil is better than Fluval Stratum
2nd. Surface Area -> Aquasoil has little more surface area for algea/ biofilm to grow on.
3rd. Size / Shape -> Personal preferences... you like small balls or big balls LoL
4th. color -> Personal preferences.... you like black or brown? or whatever
5th. Availability -> Fluval Stratum is more likely to be sold at lfs than aquasoil.


*** Yes RO is NOT required for shrimp keeping. (this is why "special" shrimp substrate is needed for people that use water other than RO).

given that fact, you may even use kitty litter for your substrate IF your water are SOFT enough for the shrimp you desired.


----------



## soc200 (Feb 26, 2011)

Jeffww said:


> What you just said makes you sound like an elitist jerk. Just want to let you know. ADA is *not *the king of planted tanks. You can make tanks JUST as successful and beautiful without the overpriced products that ADA sells. All you need is some motivation and some basic horticultural knowledge and aquarium knowledge and you'll be fine....


what you said sounds insecure and petty. I have NEVER purchased an ADA product in my life. I have stratum in my shrimp tanks and gravel/sand/dirt in my community. But telling a customer you have been in business 30 years and never heard of ADA's leading soil is ridiculous. Please take your insults elsewhere. My statement is directly pointing to the ignorance of a person selling aquarium products.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

To answer the OP, I used netlea soil (ducks while everyone hates me for having access to netlea soil)


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

soc200 said:


> what you said sounds insecure and petty. I have NEVER purchased an ADA product in my life. I have stratum in my shrimp tanks and gravel/sand/dirt in my community. But telling a customer you have been in business 30 years and never heard of ADA's leading soil is ridiculous. Please take your insults elsewhere. My statement is directly pointing to the ignorance of a person selling aquarium products.


Really? telling a guy Telling a guy to top visiting a person's store just because he doesn't know about a single product that's not even that important? That's not ignorant. That's just not knowing about a fringe product. I never said that buying ADA was wrong but ADA is certainly not a standard thing to have...That's like saying since I don't know X type of food I can't be a great chef.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Seriously, people? There's no reason to get bent out of shape over some expensive dirt. Goodness gracious.

We're all patient people - I mean, we have mini ecosystems in glass boxes - so there's no reason we can't at least have the same patience with each other.

And to the bit about answering the OP's original question... I think everyone has answered it. There is no 'best' substrate for shrimp... or anything, for that matter. It's all a situation of preference and means.


----------



## Lesley (Mar 18, 2011)

Come on guys, let's get back on track here Please. I really don't care about comments like that, it was SOC200's opinion & it would not sway me either way. The store owner may have not understood what I was asking him, my cell phone was crackling so who knows what he heard. The store is reputable & I will buy from him any day of the week because he goes the extra mile & it's not a chain store.

Just so you know, the owner of the store didn't say he was in business for 30 years while on the phone, he told me that in person Saturday when I visited the store.

I was merely trying to find out about substrate which I have plenty of information now thanks too you all & other threads I've read.

So, Please...... Let's get back to the subject & no more blah blah blah because that's what it amounts too.


----------



## soc200 (Feb 26, 2011)

Jeffww said:


> Really? telling a guy Telling a guy to top visiting a person's store just because he doesn't know about a single product that's not even that important? That's not ignorant. That's just not knowing about a fringe product. I never said that buying ADA was wrong but ADA is certainly not a standard thing to have...That's like saying since I don't know X type of food I can't be a great chef.


Wow...aquasoil is now a fringe product. Nobody said it was a "standard" ...poor reading comprehension or purposeful misquote? Either way, you seriously need to switch to decaf. I have an opinion...you don't agree. Get over yourself. I'm ok if you shop where the seller has no clue about well known products in his/her field of expertise. I prefer to take my business to places that do more than just throw junk at me from their shelves.

For Lesley specifically,
I'd consider taking a product picture of fss/aquasoil/whatever elitist soil  you want to try to the lfs and ask if he can order it. Maybe you could keep your business with him/her...and bring some 21st century to your lfs


----------



## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

soc200 said:


> Wow...aquasoil is now a fringe product. Nobody said it was a standard...poor reading comprehension or purposeful misquote? Either way, you seriously need to switch to decaf. I have an opinion...you don't agree. Get over yourself. I'm ok if you shop where the seller has no clue about well known products in his/her field of expertise. I prefer to take my business to places that do more than just throw junk at me from their shelves.
> 
> For Lesley specifically,
> I'd consider taking a product picture of fss/aquasoil/whatever elitist soil  you want to try to the lfs and ask if he can order it. Maybe you could keep your business with him/her...and bring some 21st century to you lfs


The concept of a person not knowing about a product makes him less qualified in a trade he is clearly successful in is what is bothering me. Don't divert the argument with straw man misdirections. Insult me all you want...I will walk away knowing that I never insulted you personally only your arguments and I will walk away happier than the next man. And yes AS is a fringe product. We only think it's ubiquitous because you are perusing a site about _planted tanks _there are plenty of reef experts and cichlid experts who haven't even HEARD about ADA...What makes you think that is a requirement to be a professional in the hobby?


----------



## Lesley (Mar 18, 2011)

FYI - This man that owns the store is a Blue Ribbon Winner at most Aquatic Shows... He knows everything there is to know about Cichlids So, he may never have heard of ADA like you say.


----------



## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

GeToChKn said:


> To answer the OP, I used netlea soil (ducks while everyone hates me for having access to netlea soil)



hey getochkn, so is this netlea stuff really great? like I read people's post they say this thing is legendary. so I learned that this product is not available in the US. why? do you know? im so curious now about this netlea stuff.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> hey getochkn, so is this netlea stuff really great? like I read people's post they say this thing is legendary. so I learned that this product is not available in the US. why? do you know? im so curious now about this netlea stuff.


Not sure why its not available over there. Its list as a "soil" and I guess that means it has to go through tonnes of FDA approval, which, what fish store is going to spend $250,000 or something to get it approved. In Canada, they can import it. The store I get it from last time imported like 9 tonnes of it or something. lol. From what people say, it is one of the best for shrimp and every time I mention it people always (jokingly) hate over me for it. hehehe. I just setup a 20gal with it for my crystals and waiting (patiently) for it leech its ammonia before I add them. Its stupid regulations though. Thats why I can't buy glofish in Canada, because they are genetically engineered, they would have to go through a costly approval process up here. Or why the US is the only country in the world that you can't buy Kinder Eggs. They are a simple milk chocolate egg with a toy inside for kids to assemble. Problem is a 1933 law that states "no candy items may have something of non-nutritional value inside", so 80 million kids in the US don't get the fun of eating chocolate and putting together a toy because of that. lol. Stupid laws.


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Mostly, it's lack of interest in the states. The permit to import a small amount of soil isn't too much of a headache but it's not really worth the shipping costs associated. 

If you wanted to import a few hundred pounds of it, probably wouldn't be too difficult to do so.

The forms are available online.


----------

