# Can I lay canisters on their sides?



## PlantedVirgin (Feb 17, 2012)

The best thing to do is get AquaClear HOB filters. Sounds like your tank is small? If you lay them on their sides you will get more air and yes, possible leaking and burn out the motor.


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## bitFUUL (May 14, 2010)

I can't vouch for a fluval, but eheim needs to be vertical to work.


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## bradlgt21 (Mar 24, 2010)

I would not suggest a HOB, The aquaclears are good HOB filters but cannister filters do a lot better job filtering then a HOB. I wouldn't lay them on there side but I also have a eheim so it may not be the same for all canisters.


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

The thing that is getting me... Shouldn't matter where the canister is located, it's a closed system. So where the heck are you getting air into it??

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

secuono said:


> I'm so sick of my two Fluval 205 and 305 getting air because they aren't several feet below the water surface.
> _Can I lay them down or will that somehow cause leaks to be more possible?_


An interesting question. If your canister is at the same level as the tank (or close), then there should be no height-induced water pressure inside the canister. Meanwhile, the seals in these filters are designed to withstand much higher pressures (e.g. several feet below the water level). This means that you get a considerable amount or safety margin. So, I wouldn't expect it to leak, even if you lay it on the side.

But there could be some unpleasant mechanical consequences of having it lay on one side. Like, maybe, the impeller getting non-centered in the impeller chamber. (Just guessing randomly. Judging by the design of my 306, this shouldn't be an issue at all). Or trays shifting. Or sideloads on the canister body causing it to deform and leak.

Anyway, it might make sense to try it and see how it works.

P.S. But as NWA-Planted already noted, it is a closed system. Once you rid it of any remaining air, it should't get any. Are you sure the problem is the air?


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## Cyanider (Mar 1, 2013)

When I tilt my Fluval 405 sideways too much water starts to come out. Never tested to see if it's just some water stuck in a gap, or if it's actually coming from inside the canister (there's little gaps that are outside of the seal that may hold that water). I wouldn't risk it either way. Try priming the filter a little more to remove any air. Once it runs, air shouldn't get into the system.


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## gSTiTcH (Feb 21, 2013)

AndreyT has the right idea. Running it on its side will burn up the impeller assembly much faster. You will also have a lot more potential for filtration bypass as the media sinks to the bottom (now a side) of the canister.

Leaking wouldn't be an issue, however.


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## secuono (Nov 19, 2009)

I don't know what their issues are, but both have done it since I got them new. There's no leaks of water, intakes are well into the tank, output on one is 4in under the surface and the other is just under the surface. 
Tank is a 40b, 4in off the ground. The 305 catches less air, but the 205 just sucks butt, I'm shaking it daily to get the air out.
I'm sure some air comes from the stuck plants on the intake, but with a heavily planted tank, that's normal. I clean the intakes when I do w/c. 


I have ACs, I'm not switching filters to fix this. The trickling noise of HOBs isn't something I want more of.


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## gSTiTcH (Feb 21, 2013)

secuono said:


> I'm sure some air comes from the stuck plants on the intake, but with a heavily planted tank, that's normal


I have plants getting stuck on my intake all the time, never causes air.

You may have a leak at a fitting that is drawing in air. That tank being on the ground like that (pretty much) isn't helping matters, but as long as the tank level is higher than the top of the filter, you should be ok.


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## secuono (Nov 19, 2009)

I've checked the connections that are out of the water, added Vaseline and still no change. =(
There's 6in from the flat of the 205 canister, 1-1.5in from the top of the tube bend. 


Are we still 16 that we giggle and and snicker over the Devil's number and all? So many dorks on this forum! 
:icon_twis


Anyone gonna mention the '69' in my post count, too?


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## lipadj46 (Apr 6, 2011)

Someone takes their internets very serious like 

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code


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## cichnatic (Oct 16, 2012)

Check the connection between the aquastop and the hoses to make sure its tight and secured. Can you post a picture of your canister setup if we can see anything out of the ordinary if possible.


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## secuono (Nov 19, 2009)

I can flip the whole thing and no water comes out. The aquastop is is flush, I know it loves to leak when I don't get it in properly.


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## gSTiTcH (Feb 21, 2013)

Proud dork here! Just people trying to have a little fun is all.

That said, water coming out would be positive pressure. When the filter is running, it's under negative pressure (from the impeller draw). It's possible to suck air in and not let water out.

If it were me, I would try raising that tank or move the canister to another tank to see if the problem continues. If it's not leaking, then it's got to be a water level issue.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

secuono said:


> I have ACs, I'm not switching filters to fix this. The trickling noise of HOBs isn't something I want more of.


I was in the same boat. I had 2 AC300s going on my 55g and replaced them with Eheim 2213s due to the noise. They can be just as noisy as water starts to evaporate though. Good thing though you can push the spraybar down into the water, flip it towards the glass or rig it to mount it vertical. When I clean my canister it purges out all air within 1-2 mins tops. I never hear my canister running. When I submerged my spraybar the loudest thing on my tank is the fan on my light. 

I doubt if most canisters can be laid down with them have a sealed top. You might want to invest into another brand such as Eheim. The classic has been around for years and is very basic and very easy to maintenance.


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## secuono (Nov 19, 2009)

I wanted these two to sell to buy the Sunsuns instead, they didn't sell. I won't use money I don't have on more canisters, these have to sell first. =/


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## mstamper (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm not an expert in pumps or fluid dynamics. It seems to me that the canister makers list a minimum height that the surface of the water must be above the surface of the canister water level for a reason. They have designed them to be able to pump a certain volume of water based on a required amount of head pressure. The only way to achieve that head pressure is to create enough pressure in the system. Creating the pressure is from the diameter of the hose, the length of the hose, the position of the canister below the tank, etc. 
Without enough pressure in the system, the system can't push the water. If it can't push the water through the output hose then, like was stated in another post, you create a positive pressure in the canister body and the water won't flow properly, if at all, and then the hoses empty of water and then you have air in the system.

Of course, you could have a bad gasket that is allowing water in as well. I don't remember if you checked your gaskets or not. That might be another thing to check as well.


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## secuono (Nov 19, 2009)

Yea, maybe it's the tank being too close to the ground or the pump not strong enough. The 305 rarely gets too clogged with air.

205 is for sale, $60+ shipping. Has used foam inserts, some lava rock but no ball for the intake strainer. I removed the ball as it clogs every time I look away in a planted tank. =/
PM me if you want it. I'll add some free mystery plants, too.


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## flukekiller (Jun 4, 2013)

i have had my ehiem 2217 on the same level with my tank and never had a problem with air... there has to be a pin hole air leak some where. the only time i have had air in my canister was when one of the quick disconnects was not sealing properly.. it took a while to figure out(funny b/c it never leaked water, just air got in) but i ended up replacing all the connections and never had the problem again


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## bpizzuto (Apr 22, 2013)

I was noiticing my Canisters would suck air if the filter media was packed to tight, would cause it to suck air thru o rings. I did a google search and found out this was what fixed most peoples problems. I was using charcoal before, now I use cermatic to grow filter bacteria.


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## Tyger (Dec 9, 2010)

Although they tend to be on the large size, I have really found my Marineland C-360 (Multistage Cannister) to be a great filter system. When doing a filter change, I tend to pre-fill the canister with tap water (85% full), add my capful of Prime, attach, squeeze the outtake hose which fills the canister the rest of the way, and start. I do, of course, get some air though within 5-10 minutes it is pretty much gone. (Note: Not that it matters though I used the Lifegard Aquatics Customflo Water System for in-flow and out-flow as I wanted a sprayer bar and lower outflow).

In my experience, I think the two biggest problems you will face will be with impeller wear and tear and filter media going to the bottom of side ways canister. In my case, Marineland C-360 is designed such that the media lays out across the trays, the water is driven to the bottom of the canister (i.e., sponge filter > charcoal tray [activated carbon and zeolite ammonia remover] > bio-balls > ceramic > polishing media). With the media spread on the trays the water must pass through each media... side ways, the sponge would work as designed, the carbon-zeolite would move to the bottom, the ceramic would as well, and the bio-balls would float and polishing media may not cover as effective... as water would travel path of least resistance, I believe the water would have much less contact with the appropriate media then in the original upright position.

In any case, I wish you luck with your filter issues.

Michael

PS: I use a Marineland C-360 for a 65-Gallon (designed for 100-Gallon) as I wanted to have more than necessary as opposed to less than necessary.


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