# something slowly killing my fish - want to give up...



## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

I've been slowly losing my zebra danios for the past few months - they get S-curved spines and sucked in bellies that get progressively worse until they die. I find it strange because before they started getting sick, they spawned all the time. The last one left is a female full of eggs.

I also lost 2 neon tetras, but I'm not 100% sure how they died, they just disappeared... and the 3 that remain have blotchy white patches, pale coloration, and some sores near their tails. They are acting normal and eating just fine though.

All the other fish are fine, if a bit fat or bloated. I lost a dwarf gourami to severe bloating/impaction about a month ago but I'm not sure if that was related.

Are the weird deaths of the danios the result of age or another disease? Or could I be looking at something like fish TB here? This tank has been set up since September and the danios were some of the first fish I added.

Params are pH 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0


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## Malawi man (Mar 5, 2012)

Sounds like you have some kind of parasite, from my experience. Possibly TB too, but I've never dealt with it. It's been found to not be contagious to humans, but I'd still proceed with caution. I had 1 rainbow garra who's spine curved like that after it's 2nd night. Took it out immediately, put it in QT, where it later died but not one other case in the tank. Wasn't taking any chances, fish from the cleanest LFS can still have disease. Unless treated 100% correctly, there will always be a chance a bad parasitic infestation is looming in a previously infected tank. Since you only have 1 fish left, I suggest you empty the tank and rinse it out (not the filter media, even though I do recommend starting from scratch.) I've seen people battle things like this over and over until they give up in the hobby.

You should also have Nitrates higher than 0


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

There are other fish in the tank... I can't empty it right now. It's only been the ZDs and the neons I've had trouble with. They have died off slowly in the past 2 or 3 months... it's weird. I still have a lot of my first fish, including 5 black skirt tetras that are absolute monsters. 

I have been struggling with internal parasitic symptoms (bloat, stringy white poo) but no medication I've tried has helped. I've been unable to find anything other than Tetra parasite guard and the Jungle parasite tablets. Neither seemed to do anything, even when I added it to their food. I made a thread about it a while ago and no one really suggested anything. Might be because Canada doesn't have the best online retailers... 

I have 0 nitrates because I have a bad cyano problem, if you look at my other threads I'm trying to deal with that by dosing nitrates but again, local availability is brutal.


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## Snowflake311 (Apr 20, 2011)

When a fish is starved the spine can look bent. It could be tb and if it is the fish are done for. I would kill any remaining bent spine fish it's not worth it to try and save them IMO. 

The fish looks starved in the photo sunken belly. Parasite would be a
Good reason for that. When did you get the fish how were they then? 

Healthy fish can keep some parasites in check with their immune system. But if the fish is weak or stressed te parasites tank over.


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

when i was fish farming cyprinids bent spines and tails came from a mineral deficiency


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

This guy just started looking bent about a week ago... it seems to start with their tails constantly floating upwards. I got them in mid September.


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

i would definitly go with deficieny and maybe also a parasite


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

Hmm... wish I knew what to do about it.


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

Ugh... lost another fish today, big momma Platy... She was hanging around the bottom yesterday and I just knew what was coming. She didn't have any visible problems, a bit bloated but she was always fat...


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

Lost a blue ram I bought a while ago... 2 days after the return policy ended -sigh- this is heartbreaking. I want to sell my ADA tank and just give up.... Can anyone help me figure out what to do?


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

By Pixl looks TB.. to me.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Have you tried running a UV sterilizer for a while to see if that helps?


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

I thought Big Als was a canadian outfit? Anyway, PraziPro is a great parasite/dewormer and not too expensive. It sure can't hurt to try it since there's no risk to your other tank inhabitants. 

Big Als Canadian Website

Prazi Pro


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## OiZO (Feb 2, 2010)

i saw this when i was breeding furcata rainbows. It seemed to happen to my fish when the water quality was bad and/or not enough flow through the tank. That combined with a unbalanced diet. Your parameters seem good though so if its not flow/water then its probably a parasite.

Dose some meds if that doesn't work i would prob just destroy all the remaining fish and rebuild the tank. I would check with your LFS also maybe they got a few bad batches in. 

I know it doesn't sound fun and can be disheartening but stay strong. This sort of thing happens with all animals and its just part of keeping them.


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

I could try the Prazipro, I will think of a few other things I need so I can get the free shipping. Maybe some other meds to try? Or something to nuke this cyano?

It's just disheartening because I'm losing some of my favorite fish... first my gourami and then the platy, even though they were just cheap fish they were the first ones I bought and I got attached to them.... and rams are just too expensive (local prices) to be losing. Why can't my stupid bombproof black skirt tetras die instead? (knock on wood... I'd rather no fish die) them and also my harlequin rasboras seem invincible to this. 

These are the sores on my poor neon tetra. It seems completely unaffected by them though, he was right up top with his friends eating away. Could the sores be parasite related too? Or could that be something bacterial? Columnaris? None of the other fish have anything like this










Sorry for the bad pic


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

The Neon looks like Neon Tetra Disease. Look that up, and see what other species get it. Several other Tetras, and I think a few non-tetras. The other possibility is Columnaris, but given the history of occasional deaths spread out over a long time I do not think it is. Flavobacteria columnare is usually more aggressive, kills faster. 

Danios are highly susceptible to Mycobacteriosis. There are several bacteria that cause this. Most of them can infect humans. If a fish has MB, then something else hits them (parasite, disease) they might die of whatever the other thing was, but their immune system is weakened by fighting both issues. The only way to properly diagnose MB is for a vet to examine the fish using the right staining technique. If you can find a vet who will do this he or she will tell you how to handle the fish (The tissues break down really fast after it dies, and the vet may want a live fish that is showing symptoms and will kill it right before examining the tissues to get the best chance to see what is going on.)

Bent spine can be caused by nutrient deficiencies when they are young, or genetics. Both of these would show up early. It can be caused by other problems (disease) and this would show up when the disease is present, no matter the age of the fish. 

A fish with a good appetite that looks like that first picture is not getting the benefit of the food. Either parasites are eating it or the fish is not digesting the food.


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

It doesn't really look like NTD to me, these are raised out fuzzy/cottony sores... they look like they could almost be scraped off with a fingernail. It's not really pigment loss like most NTD cases look like. These last 3 neons have been in my tank for almost 5 months now

Makes sense about the danios though. They were hit the hardest, I lost 4/5 of them over about 3 months to the same symptoms. I'm not really worried about their death too much, I bought them to cycle the tank originally and honestly didn't expect them to last so long. I just find it really ironic that the last danio left is a female who is full of eggs. She is not showing symptoms of anything yet.

It's just tough for me to diagnose/medicate because the deaths are to different symptoms/seemingly different problems. Danios died to curved spines/wasting, gourami died to bloat/impaction, really no idea why the platy or rams died.


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

Jaguar said:


> I could try the Prazipro, I will think of a few other things I need so I can get the free shipping. Maybe some other meds to try? Or something to nuke this cyano?


If it's true cyano bacteria then erythromycin is the best thing to kick it's butt. Looks like Big Al's has it but that price really hurts. 1 packet treats 10 gallons of water, and you have to do a minimum of 5 days. At $18 for 10 packets that gets spendy fast. I would contact these guys for their EM:

http://goo.gl/T3nV9

They say they ship to Canada. MAKE SURE you ask them for the NEWEST JAR they have. They're legit and I've bought from them before but if they think you're using all of the drug for one treatment they won't worry about the expiration date on it. That DOES NOT mean you'll get expired product, just that it might expire in 10 months instead of 2 years etc. I always have it on hand for "that one time" so I want my product to last as long as possible, if that makes sense.

To round up your Big Al's order I would recommend Ich Attack by Kordon. It's effective and safe for snails (NOT inverts). It's not malachite green or formaline based. Very good stuff. You need to treat for at least 7 days with it so I recommend the larger bottle. Again, Big Al's isn't giving this stuff away at $14 a bottle, but it's definitely worth having in the medicine chest.

http://goo.gl/0oT7K

After that, Kanamycin.

http://goo.gl/UHSx6

Wouldn't hurt to have Maracyn II on hand either.

http://goo.gl/MDzbS

Ok, that's all I got! Good luck.:thumbsup:


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

I will contact them about shipping on the EM, looks like its being calculated wrong

I have some Rid Ich+ left so don't need ich meds, but the other two I definitely think I could use. I was looking for Kanamycin but didn't know Seachem made their own. I could grab Metroplex too. Thanks!


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## mcaquatic (Apr 26, 2010)

Joraan said:


> By Pixl looks TB.. to me.



I completely agree if by TB you mean Mycobacterium marinum (fish tuberculosis)


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

sigh, well, i wish i could afford to have a culture or whatever done just to find out. i dont even want to think about euthanizing all my fish...
as if things couldnt be going any more wrong for me right now lol.


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## mcaquatic (Apr 26, 2010)

Don't add any more fish to the tank. Definitely do not give any away. When the tank is eventually empty bleach everything.


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

No losses since... the neon tetra is looking pretty sad though, he has a kink at the end of his tail. He is still swimming around with his pals and eating like a monster but I will euthanize him if that changes.


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## Shazray (Oct 11, 2012)

I went through something very similar last November / December. It was heart breaking. Turned out to be some type of parasite. I ended up having the best results using formalin. 

What's the status on your fish now? How are they doing?

--------- oops, my bad. I just saw that this was from a year ago, not the other day. My bad, sorry!


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## Stitcher (Feb 22, 2013)

Years ago I lost my danios, the same thing. Sunk in tummies and curved spines. I just kept trucking. Kept up maintenance. I didn't add any new fish for a long time. Eventually it got better. Sorry you're going through this. Wish I could help.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

mcaquatic said:


> I completely agree if by TB you mean Mycobacterium marinum (fish tuberculosis)


I would have to agree here as well. Too many symptoms match up with Fish MB. Take a look at this article. Most will tell you that there is no way to recover from an outbreak of MB, but Diane Walstad was able to overcome it pretty well

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/mycobacteriosis-the-stealth-disease213231.htm


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Hello,

Danios are extremely fast swimmers and need plenty of space, like 80cm tall tank at least. They also need to be kept of groups of at least 10. Kept in less numbers and in smaller tanks, they will probably not live for a long time (will they make one year?), and will become more susceptible to sickness.

This is something that is often overlooked. I would check if they have those parameters first, also the pH of 7.8 maybe a concern, and check that the water temperature is not too high.

They are often sold as a hardy fish, but I found they are not so hardy as one could pretend. To be hardy, they must be kept withing their parameters.


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## forester (Mar 12, 2010)

everything u said is wat happened to me bout a year ago , slow fish loss over time and i swear ur pic of the neon looked exactly like how mine were ! i hate treating for anything so i did more frequent smaller water changes and slowly but surely i stopped loosing fish . the wierdest thing was like u said with neon , acted normal but looked awful . have two neons left out of 5 and 4 out of 5 glolites left . have not had a death in 7 months now with no deaths . but i have not added any fish either ...but for sme reason my cherry shrimp still breed and thrive like crazy through the whole ordeal


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