# Cyano problem, how do I prevent dead spots???



## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

go to Dr.s foster and smith and order some erythromycin...or you can spend a boat load on some Maracyn I (same drug). That will kill the cyanobacteria...you'll need about 3 days to a week to kill it (or search "black out"). Personally, I just like to kill the beast. 

The antibacteria will not kill your plants. Just to a major water change after you've killed it all. 

Check your tap water nitrates. No ammonia is good. Its possible the cyanobacteria could be leading to the deaths, but that's speculation.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

wouldn't the antibacterial kill the good bacteria in the substrate as well?


----------



## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

mistergreen said:


> wouldn't the antibacterial kill the good bacteria in the substrate as well?


no...I'm by no means a microbiologist (plant ecologist), but I recall it targets the other type (gram neg or gram pos...can't remember)...but one is the cyano, the other is the beneficial. BUT, if you have enough plants in there in the first place, there really is no need for any of the "beneficial" bacteria.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

that is interesting, about not needing beneficial bacteria if there are enough plants. I've never heard that.

I did read about doing half of the dose to lower risk of killing good bacteria.

My question is this...

I've already done the black out twice, so I know that whatever is starting it, is still there. 

If I do the treatment, will it come back? Or is it gone for good? 

Thanks guys for all the advice!!!!! This stuff is driving me batty and it stinks so bad!


----------



## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

crissy7399 said:


> that is interesting, about not needing beneficial bacteria if there are enough plants. I've never heard that.
> 
> I did read about doing half of the dose to lower risk of killing good bacteria.
> 
> ...


Don't quote me on the killiing all the beneficial bacteria stuff. Half strength will be fine. I'm not sure if it will ever come back, but my GF used it in her tank and it got rid of it for good...I believe there are some others on this board that have used this treatment with success as well. 

Re: no need for beneficial bacteria if there are enough plants...the reason why many of us do not do fishless cycling. The plants themselves, if they are properly fed and have adequate light, will take care of the nitrogen cycle. The "beneficial" bacteria are really only for "standard" tanks...not planted per se. A lot of us don't even have any bacteria housing noodle-stuff in our filters...just pads and floss


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

cool georgiadawgger,

thanks for the help.

I think I will try that antibacterial stuff and see what happens. Hopefully it will be gone for good, but I also read somewhere else that if you don't resolve the problem that is causing it, it will keep coming back. And I don't know what my problem is yet. Sooooooo.... guess I will see!

thanks!
Crissy


----------



## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

crissy7399 said:


> cool georgiadawgger,
> 
> thanks for the help.
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right to tackle the root cause...take a step back while you are dosing the meds and see what may be out of whack. Test your tap water after letting it sit out overnight for all the key stuff (pH, kH, NO3, etc) and re-assess your dosing schedule. Many times, it takes a bit of tweaking to get things back on track. Be patient and good luck!


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Mardel® Maracyn is $5.00
that's not a butt load


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

And do you leave the lights off too?
not a total blackout.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

thanks georgiadawger and mistergreen,

I don't think of myself as being a stupid person, but sometimes this stuff is just too complicated, or their is just too much different information that I feel overwhelmed. I wish I could just have someone come over, and look at my tank, and then tell me what to do! Oh well.

I have the reg. tube tests, with the Amonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Ph, then I have another test kit for the KH and Gh. But I don't know what NO3 is, and any others I might need. Could you tell me specifically Georgiadawger? Thank you.


On the blackout, I also covered the tank with a blanket, so that no light was entering the tank. I was suprised though that my plants were still okay, I figured they'd all be dead. 

After clearing out all that stuff a couple days ago, this stuff is coming back with a vengeance!  I can tell a noticeable change, or growth, just in a day. Maybe even almost doubling in size in some areas.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

I tested the nitrates again, and it's still zero! I'll check the Kh and gH in a min


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

Gh was 140 that's the General Hardness, and it said it is in the Moderately Hard category.

kH was 70 which is Carbonate hardness, and it's says 20-80 is normally associated with a low pH

this is pretty close to last time which was 120 and 60 respectively. Did that before the BG algae ever showed up. When I first started tank, it was 160 and 110, so I added two peices of driftwood- that was a year ago.

let me know if I should check something else, thanks!


----------



## MarkP (Jan 1, 2007)

NO3 is Nitrate.

Not to sound demeaning or anything, but are you sure you are following the directions on the AP Test Kit for Nitrates? Add 1, shake for 30 seconds, add 2, shake for 1 min, wait to develop? I've heard of many people getting false readings of 0 from that kit if they skip the shaking.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

MarkP, don't worry about sounding demeaning. 

I've done this test a million times. When I first started tank a year ago, I did it like every week and then every month for most of the year. So I know I'm not doing it wrong. Could it have expired? Surely not in a years time though.

Thanks for clarifying the NO3. Totally didn't know that was Nitrates.

I'm wondering, if maybe since I waiting almost 24 hours to test after I removed and cleaned the tank out, that the cyano was already building back up, therefore giving me a nearly zero NO3 reading.


----------



## |GTO| (Oct 9, 2006)

Georgiadawgger said:


> go to Dr.s foster and smith and order some erythromycin...or you can spend a boat load on some Maracyn I (same drug). QUOTE]
> 
> Does anyone know if erythromycin or Maracyn will hurt/injure/damage/kill scaleless fish??? i.e. Dwarf Puffers, Ghosts, Eels, etc.???


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

I'm really starting to think that using this product won't do me any good because it will just come back again, because I don't know what the cause is.

I want to get rid of this stuff for good, and I'm reading peoples experience with this drug, and that it comes back later. 

If it is due to deadspots, what do I get to fix that? I really didn't want my whole tank full of currents because I have a ADF and wanted to keep it fairly calm for her.

If it is from something else, well, how do I know for sure?

thanks ya'all


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

jdb416 said:


> Does anyone know if erythromycin or Maracyn will hurt/injure/damage/kill scaleless fish??? i.e. Dwarf Puffers, Ghosts, Eels, etc.???


it should be fine... it's an antibiotic with no heavy metals... I'm using it right now and I have a few loaches. If they die, i'll let you know.


and to crissy.... get rid of the cyano, then do a 50% water change... and start the tank back up slowly with low ferts + lights.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

Mistergreen,

My plan was to do a lowlight tank with plants for my fish. I didn't want a tank filled with plants, just more to accent it all.

So, I new that I needed to upgrade my cheapo light that came with the tank, and I got a 96compact. I don't do CO2, and the only additive I've put in the tank is iron, and I've only done that twice the last half of the year.
The substrate is just aquarium gravel. 

Should I be fertilizing? and what would I use? 

I know things all need to be at the right levels, otherwise it will cause blooms of algae, but I'm not sure what I really need. 

Thanks for your assistance!


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

crissy,
oh, you should have told us your setup in the beginning... I think your root cause is just that you leave your light's on too long... keep it under 9 hours... and just do more water changes...

I thought you have 2.5 wpg lights, and co2, and ferts...

just manually remove all the BGA (cyano)... take the plants and shake the BGA loose in a bucket of water, Same for the gravel, and side of the walls.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

Thanks mistergreen!!!

I thought I did give my tank info, but maybe not enough info. 

I also thought that you are suppose to keep it under 10-12 hours. So it should be 9 hours instead?? Darn. I wish I had one of those lights that had the "moon" lighting so we could still enjoy the tank in the evening. 

During the day I have to get the lights on early enough because we have such huge windows letting in a good amount of indirect light, so I've had them on at 9am and shutting off at 6:30 weekdays and on weekends it's 10am to 8pm, I'll cut that down a little too then. 

This last time I removed the BGA-last weekend- it actually seems to not be growing as fast as last time. It's still growing, but maybe since I've been trying to take it out more often recently, it's slowed it down? 

I had been using a toothbrush to gently pull it off of the plants, and then scrubbing the drift wood because it has so many grooves in it and I wanted to get it all. 

NOW, I'm looking at the driftwood and my sword plant, and the stuff looks different, it seems more fuzzy than before, so maybe there is another algae that is competing with the BGA on that driftwood and plant. Or maybe me "brushing" it with a toothbrush! I see the BGA on the roots of my baby java ferns and on the gravel and my moneywart. 

I think I will hold off on the chemical thing, and just see what happens. 

Thank you so much for checking up with me!!!

oh, mistergreen, were you saying to shake the gravel in a bucket of water too? 

Also, how often should I be rinsing the filter media? I was planning to do it every 6 months, but I went ahead and did it this month because of this problem, and I know it was pretty gross! Maybe I should do it more often? The instructions dont help at all. THANKS!


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I was having a little BGA cyano thing too... not as bad as yours though..
i turned off the lights and use the antibacterial for 3 full days.. that seem to work.. All my fish are alive. i'm sure they're not completely gone but i'll have to watch my photo period.. I set mine for 8 hours. I have a timer hooked up to my lights for in case i'm not around, it turns off.

Don't scrub your plants and driftwood in the tank.. You're just spreading the cyano around the tank.


----------



## Tsigoloeg (Nov 5, 2006)

crissy7399 said:


> Could it have expired? Surely not in a years time though.


This is a fairly easy check to do to see if you are getting false high readings. Buy a gallon of distilled water at the grocery store and do a check on it.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

mistergreen said:


> Don't scrub your plants and driftwood in the tank.. You're just spreading the cyano around the tank.



Thanks. It just wasn't coming off as easily as other areas. Maybe since the driftwood is so porous? 

Well, we went out of town for a few days, and I do notice the stuff all over the gravel, and everything else. It doesn't seem to be a shiny as it had in the past though. 

Question: if there are bubbles (air bubbles) in it, is that a sign it is growing or something else? I see that on the top of the driftwood and the top of the plastic palmtree ornament. 

Another thing, is there is some BGA on one of my plants that's directly infront of the filter output hose (where the water comes back out) so there's got to be something else going on I would think. Have I already said that? We've had lots of things going on in the family that is distracting me from the tank, so sorry if I have!

thanks!


----------



## Javaquatic (Nov 22, 2006)

My recent experience with BGA (not sure if it's gone for good, but no signs of it in the 3 weeks since I last dosed the Maracyn), was that it was probably caused by too much light, low number of plants, and not enough ferts in the tank. Water stagnancy didn't have anything to do with it, the worst cases were where the flow in the tank is the strongest. My BGA pearled a lot, too. All that available light.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

Tsigoloeg said:


> This is a fairly easy check to do to see if you are getting false high readings. Buy a gallon of distilled water at the grocery store and do a check on it.


I did another check from water at the bottom of my tank. same thing, zero.

Tsigoloeg, what would I find if I test the distilled water? 

I was thinking to just add some fish food and let it dissolve a couple days and then test, but I forgot that would be to test ammonia, because their probably isn't any bacteria to change it over to Nitrite, and then over to Nitrate (which is what I'm concerned about). Or would there be?


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

Javaquatic said:


> was that it was probably caused by too much light, low number of plants, and not enough ferts in the tank. Water stagnancy didn't have anything to do with it, the worst cases were where the flow in the tank is the strongest.


For a long time, I've been wondering if I've not had enough plants. I just don't know where else I would put them. I don't want a tank overflowing with plants, I just wanted the plants to accent the tank. Plus the fact trying to vacuum the gravel when doing water changes. How do you do that? Or do you just never vacuum the gravel because the plants are suppose to take care of all the "crap" 

I need to post a picture of my tank, but I'll have to upload one first.

I also am not sure what ferts I should do, if any. As I mentioned previously, the only thing I've ever added is iron. And I only have regular aquarium gravel.

thank you for any more advice! 

I did turn my light on earlier and shut them off sooner too, so they're on more like 8.5 now.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

dude,
since plants are not a priorty here.... get 1 wpg or even less for the lights.. and leave it on for only 8-9 hours a day... You don't have to worry about ferts or co2.

but first get rid of the BGA. scrub and vaccum the tank. then leave the light off for 2-3 day.. you can take the plants out if you want.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

I don't want to take out the plants. I wanted plants for the fish so that they would feel more at home. 

I also had read alot about lights and that if you have any plants doing 1 wpg wouldn't be good enough, so that's why I upgraded to a stronger light fixture, but still low enough to do the low lights plants.

Well, I appreciate all the help you've given me. I will wait and see how it does now that I rinsed all the plants and stuff. I just don't have time to scrub everything right now. 

thank you again mistergreen, I appreciate it


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

*found an interesting link*

Algae Control in Freshwater Aquariums!


this has some interesting suggestions, like leaving the lights on for 12 hours, (but with CO2 though). Or not "vacuuming" the gravel, often, and not using carbon filtration.

Anyone want to look at this?


----------



## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

crissy7399 said:


> Algae Control in Freshwater Aquariums!
> 
> 
> this has some interesting suggestions, like leaving the lights on for 12 hours, (but with CO2 though). Or not "vacuuming" the gravel, often, and not using carbon filtration.
> ...


Crissy....
Erythromycin works...period. Lower your photoperiod too. i did the blackout thing and cleaned etc....and the only thing that got rid of it all was a regiment of Erythromycin. Also you need to up the NO3 to keep it at bay. I have loaches and Erythromycin will not harm your invertebrates, critters, plants or biofilter, so that is my best recommendation.....then get to the source of the problem...lighting, maintenance, macro dosing...


ALSO Crissy, the link you sent has since been *disproven*, so I wouldn't put too much faith in that 'experiment"


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

*Am I changing the water wrong??*

thanks fresh-newby,

I thought that experiment result was odd! 

I have lowered my light time to 8.5 hours. Should I lower it even more? 

I also added a few more plants.


How can I get my Nitrates up? I don't know why they continue to show zero. 
I'm going to measure the Nitrites today too. I will do that soon, and measure the Nitrates again.


Another question. When everyone does a waterchange, do you get into the gravel? I've always used the syphon thing to shake the gravel around to get all the stuff out. Should I not be doing this? That experiment made sense to not do that because the plants roots system will use all of that and moving the gravel around will just allow the algae to use it.

I've never been shown how to really "clean/change water" the tank. So maybe I'm doing it wrong.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

Here's a link to a pic of my fish tank.

Maybe that will give a better discription of how many plants are in there. I just don't know how to add more plants, unless I shouldn't be "vacuuming" the gravel out each time I do a water change.

Thanks for any input! 

MySpace


----------



## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

you can wave it <the python end> around above the gravel to get the detritus to float up, then suck it up. Adding plants is good... We all get Nitrates up by dosing it as a macro. www.gregwatson.com you can order KNO3 from him. NPK are all important macros for plants. If you are coming up zero, then your plans are using up the little that your fishload is exuding, so perhaps you need to add more.


----------



## splatt3 (Dec 29, 2006)

i had the same problem with cyanobacteria. i left it alone and let my 4 goldfishes eat it after i poke those cyanos. it took them about a week to get rid of all of the cyanos. all my gravel was on one side of the tank after the goldfishes dug for the cyanos. erythro will definately work. I took microbiology class last semester and cyanobacteria is a gram-negative, oxygenic photosynthetic bacteria and it uses light energy to do a oxidation reaction, you definately need to do a blackout. even though it is beneficial bacteria cuz it produces o2, the site of it in the tank is an eyesore. there are different kinds of cyanos, the ones that i got were unicellular so it wasn't as stinky as the filamentous (the strands) and the colonial forms. These bacterias survive by fixing N2 in its atmosphere and transform it into NH4 which the growing cyanos need, thus making them pretty stinky. if i were you, i'd do water changes, blackout, and/or Gram-negative anti-bacterial treatments. make sure when you do the treatment, you treat it for at least a week, every single day or the bacteria will get used to the treatment and survive. good luck.


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

thanks both of you. I'm trying to figure out if my test for Nitrates is bad. I keep coming up with zero. 

Tested the tap water, it looked like a little between zero and 5, closer to 5. So apparently, it's working. 

Isn't it true that cyano gets triggered by zero Nitrates? 

Maybe when I had larger fish die, and I didn't replace them, it caused my Nitrates to fall and that's what started the cyano?

That's what someone said before, either this thread or one I read.


----------



## thadius65 (Sep 15, 2006)

{from another post I made in another thread}

I recently had a bout with BGA. I read tips on using hydrogen peroxide, so I decided to try. Being a chicken and fearful of hurting my tank inhabitants, I used much less than others indicated. About .5ml per gallon. I put 60ml in a syringe and spot treated all areas. (cool O2 release as others indicated) Left filters running during the process and did no water changes post treatment.

After about 4 days of this treatment, my BGA is gone and has been for about 3 days so far. I did not have to remove anything post spraying, it just disappeared.

I am not an expert, nor near as scientifically proficient as others that have commented, just sharing my experience.

Will advise if it comes back.

Ted


----------



## crissy7399 (Mar 18, 2006)

Wow. That's interesting and new.

Anyone have any comments on Hydrogen peroxide??????


----------

