# Hagen Peat Plates?



## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Does anyone know how big each plate is, and how many they give you? What are the advantages of using Peat anyways? :?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Using peat in your filter will make your water more acidic and softer. The acids in the peat can create "blackwater"-like conditions found in some tropical streams rich with organic matter, like the Amazon. This in turn gives some fishies that "at home" feel and they might spawn, and the eggs and fry survival rate is bigger due to reduced fungus growth and micro org attacks.
These are the advantages of using peat anyways... not sure about the product you are asking.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

http://hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=114&PROD_ID=01010460010101


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

I know it lowers pH and softens water,but what does it do for the plants?


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

It decomposes slowly (releasing Ammonia/Nitrate), and it has a reasonably high CEC rating so nutrients bond to it well, keeping the nutrients at the plant roots.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

So it's really great and shows it advantage on root-feeders?


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

In my soil tanks I have peat mixed into the substrate. It works well, but be prepared for tea coloured water. It leaches tannins like you wouldnt believe


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Peat in the substrate is just another way to ask for algae outbreaks until the massive amount of organic matter you put in your substrate finishes decomposing. If you enjoy methane and sulfur-dioxide, by all means, put some peat in your substrate. If you want to wonder what is wrong with your tank for the next nine months to two years put lots of peat in the substrate.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

SCMurphy said:


> Peat in the substrate is just another way to ask for algae outbreaks until the massive amount of organic matter you put in your substrate finishes decomposing. If you enjoy methane and sulfur-dioxide, by all means, put some peat in your substrate. If you want to wonder what is wrong with your tank for the next nine months to two years put lots of peat in the substrate.


I disagree with that. Not a big fan of anything organic as a substrate myself, but from what I know about and experienced with peat, it is already finished decomposing and will not cause what you described. Maybe I am wrong, happens all the time :mrgreen:


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Peat, an organic matter, will not decompose in acidic, soft water.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Peat has not finished decomposing until it is turned into a mineralized soil. Putting peat into an anoxic situation results in all the anerobic byproduct toxic gasses like methane and hydrogen-sulfide, the later can cause serious damage to plant roots and fish. Its decomposition also causes major ammonia spikes, duh (to quote my daughter). I did say sulfur-dioxide before but that would be rapidly turned into sulfuric acid in an aqueous situation, I meant hydrogen-sulfide.

Peat doesn't decompose in highly acidic water like in a peat bog, where you usually don't find any submerged plants or fish either. In the slightly acidic water of your aquarium peat will decompose quite easily. 

By the way, part of the decomposition process of peat is the release of tannins and humic acids, something which you noted in your tanks.

Like I said, if you want to screw up a tank, and stand around scratching your head as to why, put some peat in the substrate. Have a wonderful time, just don't tell other people that it's OK, that is * irresponsible *.

I am not opposed to putting peat in the filter to soften or color the water, you have some control of it there.


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

The peat plates are too big and too thick to use under gravel. 

I have frequently read posts suggesting that one put a tiny bit of peat under gravel in planted tanks, for the high CEC value of the peat. The amount suggested in perhaps one handful or a tablespoon or therabouts. Also, that should be moistened, which may require boiling. 

If you go to the SkepticalAquarist.com site, somewhere there is a link to a page all about peat. It is used to soften the water, as it binds up calcium (or magnesium, I forget which) and it adds humic acids and lowers pH. It can help to add CO2 to tanks where CO2 is not injected, but this is indeed from a decaying process so you don't want much of that going on.

I have tried each of these things, once, and didn't see a great help in my tanks, but then, I think my moderately hard and quite alkaline water is just hard to adjust or soften without using stronger methods. In the end, I just accepted that I'm not going to be breeding certain fish unless I invest in a RO unit, which is not likely to happen. My tetras are fine in this water in the planted tanks with CO2 injection, the cichlids are fine in straight tapwater.

I have read in books, perhaps old books, of people suggesting that plants be stuck in chunks of peat to be planted in plain gravel tanks. These peat plates would be useful for that, of a square chunk was broken off. I think we have progressed past that now. 

This peat is also considered "aquarium safe", for some peat from the garden center might not be. It is rather expensive, though, when you can get a cubic foot or two of peat at Walmart for $3 or $4.


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## discusfever (Dec 5, 2003)

I was wondering if you can use Peat from Home Depot or wal mart? 

They have ones that are already prepared for pot use or planting new plants. They are circular and flat.. but when water is added, they get all big and plump... Do you guys know what I am talking about?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I use a bale of peat I got from the garden center. I have never seen the product you describe. But I have seen Coco fiber like you describe and it's much different than peat.


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

Those jiffy pop up pots are too expensive for this, unless you just have one laying around. You would need to be sure it does not have fertilizers in it, it may as it is meant for seed starting. Just get a small bale of peat, as cheap as possible. $2 - $4 for 1 cubic foot is about right, 2 cf will be something like $3 - $6.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

SCMurphy said:


> Like I said, if you want to screw up a tank, and stand around scratching your head as to why, put some peat in the substrate. Have a wonderful time, just don't tell other people that it's OK, that is * irresponsible *.


I am going to have to flat out disagree with you here. Proper usage of Peat has been advocated in this hobby for over 30 years, and many people here have used it (or are still using it) sucsessfully as a substrate additive.

In fact, the "Power sand" that Takashi Amano uses and recomends is mostly comprised of Peat and Pumice, so unless you're saying that Takashi Amano doesn't know what he's doing, I fail to see your justification.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks Gareth,

I did not want to challenge that statement. I use peat in all my planted tanks. Just a thin layer at the bottom of the substrate. It does no harm and on the one tank I forgot to put it in I noticed it took months to get any decent plant growth due to the unavailability of the nutrients in the substrate.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

I've used Peat for 10 years myself... And I am the first to admit that yes, if you use too much you can have some problems initially. My 90 gallon tank is a prime example.. I used too much peat in the soil and it took the tank 8 weeks to cycle initially. Now though.. its one of my most sucsessful tanks... And I keep some of my more finicky loaches in there with no problems.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Rex..G, what peat do you recommend that I use under the Eco-Complete in my 75g? How thin of a layer do I need?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

A very thin layer. Maybe a handful or two at the most. I use normal old garden peat that you buy by the cubic foot.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Rex Grigg said:


> I did not want to challenge that statement.


Challenge away Rex, that's the only way we have discussion.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

GDominy said:


> I am going to have to flat out disagree with you here. Proper usage of Peat has been advocated in this hobby for over 30 years, and many people here have used it (or are still using it) sucsessfully as a substrate additive.
> 
> In fact, the "Power sand" that Takashi Amano uses and recomends is mostly comprised of Peat and Pumice, so unless you're saying that Takashi Amano doesn't know what he's doing, I fail to see your justification.


So we can't learn from our mistakes? We have gotten away from incandescent bulbs that were too hot, under gravel filters that clog and biological filters for planted tanks, plain gravel substrates with no nutrients, no CO2 input because CO2 was bad, no fertilizer input because ammonium and nitrates were bad....Yet many people managed to grow plants using those methods.

I agree that proper use of peat should be advocated, but using it in the substrate has not been advocated for even 10 years. Before the Optimum Aquarium came out hailing laterite the only book that really discussed plants was Rataj's book, and he advocated using plain gravel. Do we do that anymore, just let the fish mulm take care of things, eventually? 

Anyhow you or Rex using peat is fine, you both have figured out how much to put in and are willing to live through the initial algae bloom, have fun. Just tell me why you think it is such a good idea to tell new people that don't know how to live with an algae bloom to use peat? 

Maybe you guys should try a mineralized topsoil with no humis once and see what you get, no algae blooms and everything grows. Mix a little clay in there and you will have a substrate that closely resembles what you find in natural wetlands.

The Power Sand is a highly processed pumice and peat mix. If you have read the Aquajournal that ADA puts out you would come to realize that Mr. Amano is a wiz at growing plants and the master at aquascaping. However you would really notice that his is the worlds best at algae bloom eradication. His highlight tanks often are overcome with algae and his has become adept at battling it back. Massive water changes, large populations of shrimp and otocinculus, and replanting if necessary are some of his methods, and he can make them work in less than 40 days from the initial set up of a tank. I think part of the reason he can get past the initial problem so fast is that the Power Sand is so highly processes that the peat is highly fragmented and decomposes much faster than unprocessed peat. 

I really wish he'd take the step and learn to stop the algae bloom before it happened rather than just expect it and compensate for it later. We can become such creatures of habit when we get good at something.

Challenge away.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

What algae bloom? The only algae I have ever had in a new tank is diatom. And right now I have a plant free tank with no peat that has the worst diatom outbreak I have ever seen. And due to the fish that are in there and the water chemistry I can't even put a Otto in there to clean it up.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Where can I get Power Sand if it's "better" than regular peat?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I don't think Power Sand is really available in the US right now. And I seem to remember that when it was it was around $2-$3 a pound. Power sand is not "better" than regular peat. It's just volcanic pumice and peat.

Raul-7, a word of advice, you can take it or leave it. It seems like you are chasing perfection. Stop. Just set up your tank and enjoy it.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

LOL! Yeah, that's one problem about me..I always try to get everything perfect and the best! Of course that isn't particulary good for my wallet..:roll: But seriously, the only reason I wanted peat was to make my water acidic so I can breed Rams, Angels, and my various other Characins...


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Rex Grigg said:


> Raul-7, a word of advice, you can take it or leave it. It seems like you are chasing perfection. Stop. Just set up your tank and enjoy it.


Excellent advise, you have my, unneeded, second.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Another word of advice. 

If you live in an area that has naturally hard water don't fight the water. Breed fish that are adapted to hard water. Fighting the water gets old very quickly. Making the water softer is MUCH harder than making it harder. I live in an area with extremely soft water. But it's each to keep hard water fish because you can in 5 minutes adjust the water to their liking. But taking hard water and making it softer is MUCH harder, MUCH more expensive, and take MUCH longer. 

The use of peat to soften the water will work. But to do it right you would be better off bagging the peat, and getting a very large pot and boiling the bagged peat. Then take the water from that pot and use it to soften the water before you add it to the tank. Or get a garbage can and put the bagged, and pre-boiled peat in the garbage can. Place a heater and powerhead in the tank and just let it swirl around till the water is where you want it.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

The only problem is I don't really want to keep Rainbowfish at this moment; maybe if I end up in a war with my water I will switch to Rainbows then. Would using the Softening Pillow for XP's work?


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Raul may I suggest you try Tetra blackwater additive, I used it on my tank, and the angels I bought a few weeks back suddenly decided to start opening their fins again and looks happy for a change, also my plants seems to have taken off with about 4 leaves each, one started makeing red leaves, I dunno what its called I can post a pick if you want. And it hardly made my water any darker, the darkness goes away after about 48 hours.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Raul may I suggest you try Tetra blackwater additive, I used it on my tank, and the angels I bought a few weeks back suddenly decided to start opening their fins again and looks happy for a change, also my plants seems to have taken off with about 4 leaves each, one started makeing red leaves, I dunno what its called I can post a pick if you want. And it hardly made my water any darker, the darkness goes away after about 48 hours.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

I know this product, but what did it do to ur pH and dH? I've found Sphagnum Peat Moss..I think I'm going to use some in the bottom layer of my substrate.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

My Ph went down, just a tad, don't know hardness, can't afford the kit over here.

Tetra Blackwater Extract is a blend of peat extract, naturally occurring vitamins and plant hormones, which recreates the natural water conditions found in areas such as the Amazon.


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