# SunSun HW-304B or PP Cascade 1000?



## goodbytes (Aug 18, 2014)

Get the Cascade 1000. Power consumption may not be an issue where you live but the SunSun 304B uses a whopping 55 watts versus the 28.5 consumed by the Cascade 1000. Also, I can only find a handful of reviews of the Cascade leaking none of which entail a structural failure of the canister. The SunSuns have any number of horror stories associated with them that end with coming home or waking up to a flooded room. I have a SunSun and I feel like I'm just waiting for the thing to fail so I can make the assessment as to whether or not the savings were really worth it; it was too cheap and I feel like I need closure. However, the majority of reviews on the SunSuns are positive and a great deal of people on this forum and elsewhere use them successfully and even swear by them. I guess it just boils down to how important peace of mind is to you.


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## djb7880 (Jan 21, 2014)

goodbytes said:


> Get the Cascade 1000. Power consumption may not be an issue where you live but the SunSun 304B uses a whopping 55 watts versus the 28.5 consumed by the Cascade 1000. Also, I can only find a handful of reviews of the Cascade leaking none of which entail a structural failure of the canister. The SunSuns have any number of horror stories associated with them that end with coming home or waking up to a flooded room. I have a SunSun and I feel like I'm just waiting for the thing to fail so I can make the assessment as to whether or not the savings were really worth it; it was too cheap and I feel like I need closure. However, the majority of reviews on the SunSuns are positive and a great deal of people on this forum and elsewhere use them successfully and even swear by them. I guess it just boils down to how important peace of mind is to you.


Well that was a confident endorsement for Cascade! Or should I say worrisome endorsement on SunSun?  They both seem to have such high reviews on Amazon, it really gets confusing! On youtube, I looked at their videos and I liked their baskets as opposed to Eheim's stacking of plates, I also thought the SunSun looked like it would be the easiest to attach and remove from the valves.

But I do want reliability! Money is not really an issue, but honestly these look as good or better than Eheim's to me.

Thanks again!


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## cgorges (Sep 9, 2014)

I spent HOURS searching this forum and others before I purchased a sunsun 304b 2 months ago. I understand I dont have the years on my sunsun some people have on their filters, but im a big fan of my sunsun for the price. It not silent, but relatively quiet, hasn't leaked a drop, and is easy to remove with the quick connects. At this point I'm definitely glad I went sunsun. As a precaution the sunsun is in an 8 gallon tote in my tank cabinet with a water alarm just in case it would leak I'd have some warning. Everyone has their own opinion on these filters but my experience has been positive so far.


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## goodbytes (Aug 18, 2014)

djb7880 said:


> ...I also thought the SunSun looked like it would be the easiest to attach and remove from the valves.


You should also take a look at the Cobalt canister which just creates a loop when you disconnect the valve so the pump doesn't stop running. Plus top mounted O ring and same price as the Cascade 1000 with the same gph. The valve is easily disconnected the same way as the SunSun with one lever.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Well... I'll offer an endorsement for the SunSun. I have only had them for about 3 months, but I have three of the 404B's, and so far they are doing exactly what I wanted. They are easy to clean (though the amount of water in a full one is a bit heavy). The accessories are pretty cheaply made, the spray bar, etc., but frankly better than Fluval, which includes that weird ribbed tubing and doesn't have a spray bar. For 2 of my 3 I made my own intake/outlets. The tubing that came with them is top notch - thick walled vinyl and plenty long. And LOTS of media space. 

As to the 55 watts -- remember there's about 9 watts going to the UV light (which you can turn off), so it's more like 46 watts, but the 304B is rated at 525 gph and the Cascade 1000 at 265 gph. Now neither one is likely to do anywhere near what they claim (the nature of lying manufacturers), but if you consider they exaggerate somewhat proportionally that explains the difference in power consumed. If you need less flow, there are also smaller sunsun's (I have no experience with them however). 

I have no experience with the Cascade 1000. 

Goodbytes, you say you are waiting for it to fail, but... it sounds like it is working? You seem pretty negative on it. From my reading, I would wager a lot of filter failures (as in flooding) for all brands is user error. If you look at the materials involved, I can see some of them failing (e.g. impellers), but there is really not much on any of these that is just going to suddenly spring a leak, but there are a LOT of places where one can screw up - mis-align the head, get the tubing on the connectors poorly, etc. In fact I don't use the screw-on connectors for vinyl -- I take them off, and use actual hose clamps. A few more dollars for peace of mind.

Bump:


goodbytes said:


> You should also take a look at the Cobalt canister which just creates a loop when you disconnect the valve so the pump doesn't stop running. Plus top mounted O ring and same price as the Cascade 1000 with the same gph. The valve is easily disconnected the same way as the SunSun with one lever.


I found that fascinating when I first saw it, a very cool design in some ways. But it is a much larger device inside the tank (since the pump is actually in the tank). 

I usually arrange to clean my filter when I am changing water anyway, so keeping the filter running seems like a cool solution to a non-existent problem.

But it is very cool when you see it still running while you detach the canister.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I tried the Cascade 1000 and as I started cutting back it was the first canister I sold off. 
It has a terrible design for preventing water by passing the media. When you get hands on you can begin to see the problem if you know to look. Suggest before buying, go to a Petco ,etc. who carries them and look at the gap between the canister sides and the baskets. 
The water enters at the top and follows a channel down to the bottom. This channel depends on a rubber type gasket to make a seal between the head and the round hole leading to the bottom. This seal is not fixed to either part and is very easy to get slightly out of place as you close the head. You can't see it as you close the head. Once you miss placing this seal, it can get mashed between the parts and become distorted so that it is then a real bear to get it where it should be until you replace the seal. 
But the main complaint is when the water reaches the bottom and spreads out, there is nothing to keep it from going to the side walls and going back up. Since water takes the path that has the least resistance, I feel much of the water that is passing through the filter is really doing just that. Passing through without filtering. The baskets fit so loosely in the canister that there is something like a 1/4 inch gap at all four walls. I finally picked up on this when I started finding leaf parts on the inside of the return spraybar. They were small enough to go in the intake strainer but went all the way through the filter to stick at the spraybar holes.


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## djb7880 (Jan 21, 2014)

goodbytes said:


> You should also take a look at the Cobalt canister which just creates a loop when you disconnect the valve so the pump doesn't stop running. Plus top mounted O ring and same price as the Cascade 1000 with the same gph. The valve is easily disconnected the same way as the SunSun with one lever.


Wow, this one looks cool! I like! But I don't know since it's only rated for a 55 Gallon... I am setting up a 75 gallon... maybe I have to buy two? It also doesn't have a spray bar??? whattt??? Maybe that's ok?


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## djb7880 (Jan 21, 2014)

I just realized... maybe I can switch my eheim 2217 to my new 75 gallon and get this cobalt for my 46 gallon cichlid tank, hmm...


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I often run 75's with a single 2217 and find no problems other than at times I do want more flow in various spots but for that I find powerheads are much eaiser to fit into the spot where I want the flow.


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## goodbytes (Aug 18, 2014)

Linwood said:


> I usually arrange to clean my filter when I am changing water anyway, so keeping the filter running seems like a cool solution to a non-existent problem.


Very true. 
You don't have to mount the pump in the tank though. You can mount the pump anywhere along either the intake or output lines and even add additional pumps. 
The Cobalt is definitely new and unproven though. I'm going to replace my AquaClear 70 in the not too distant future freeing it up for another tank and I will be getting either the Cascade or the Cobalt but I somewhat underestimated popular support for the SunSuns.



PlantedRich said:


> But the main complaint is when the water reaches the bottom and spreads out, there is nothing to keep it from going to the side walls and going back up...The baskets fit so loosely in the canister that there is something like a 1/4 inch gap at all four walls.


That is a definite black mark against the Cascade.


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## djb7880 (Jan 21, 2014)

PlantedRich said:


> But the main complaint is when the water reaches the bottom and spreads out, there is nothing to keep it from going to the side walls and going back up. Since water takes the path that has the least resistance, I feel much of the water that is passing through the filter is really doing just that. Passing through without filtering. The baskets fit so loosely in the canister that there is something like a 1/4 inch gap at all four walls. I finally picked up on this when I started finding leaf parts on the inside of the return spraybar. They were small enough to go in the intake strainer but went all the way through the filter to stick at the spraybar holes.


This is bad news. :-/ I actually saw a youtube video that said the same thing about the SunSun 304b, this guy does a great review, lonnnngggg, but good. He mentions this and seems legit at 10:25 in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxNptQ_OdNs


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## djb7880 (Jan 21, 2014)

After a lot of researching, I think they all sound pretty good in this group.
I think I may pull the trigger on the Penn Plax Cascade 1200. Yep, I decided to throw another $20 over the 1000 for the additional power.
SunSuns seem fine, but the cheap parts scare me, and there seems more potential for leaks... I do think its fine though from videos and reviews.

Eheims seem good, but overrated. Fluvals have a lot of suspect reviews on Amazon, so I don't know about them... I think everyone has their own experience. Hopefully mine will be good!


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## djb7880 (Jan 21, 2014)

djb7880 said:


> After a lot of researching, I think they all sound pretty good in this group.
> I think I may pull the trigger on the Penn Plax Cascade 1200. Yep, I decided to throw another $20 over the 1000 for the additional power.
> SunSuns seem fine, but the cheap parts scare me, and there seems more potential for leaks... I do think its fine though from videos and reviews.
> 
> Eheims seem good, but overrated. Fluvals have a lot of suspect reviews on Amazon, so I don't know about them... I think everyone has their own experience. Hopefully mine will be good!


WTF, since last night the cascade 1200 went up $30 on Amazon!!!


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

IMO get another 2217


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I have always liked the 2217 and there are several items that I could point to that make them better, but there is something to be said for the newer designs of Eheim. The classic is great but definitely getting some age on the design. No baskets and somewhat dated cutoffs are the two I look at most. If I were buying rather than selling, I would go back to the 2073-76 set for the newer design. Super nice disconnects/cutoff system and baskets for the loose media. 
But both old and new have some small items that I recommend. Things that are not seen until you use them?
Ehiem uses ceramic shafts rather than steel. Seems a small item until you find how much longer it lasts. Ceramic resists scoring and corrosion much better than even stainless. Small point but it can be the difference in having to replace an impeller and shaft at about $30-40. Power consumption converts to heat in the tank. Looking at 18 watts versus 50+ can mean a lot of heat and power used. 
Those small points can make a cheaper filter cost you more.


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## djb7880 (Jan 21, 2014)

PlantedRich said:


> I have always liked the 2217 and there are several items that I could point to that make them better, but there is something to be said for the newer designs of Eheim. The classic is great but definitely getting some age on the design. No baskets and somewhat dated cutoffs are the two I look at most. If I were buying rather than selling, I would go back to the 2073-76 set for the newer design. Super nice disconnects/cutoff system and baskets for the loose media.
> But both old and new have some small items that I recommend. Things that are not seen until you use them?
> Ehiem uses ceramic shafts rather than steel. Seems a small item until you find how much longer it lasts. Ceramic resists scoring and corrosion much better than even stainless. Small point but it can be the difference in having to replace an impeller and shaft at about $30-40. Power consumption converts to heat in the tank. Looking at 18 watts versus 50+ can mean a lot of heat and power used.
> Those small points can make a cheaper filter cost you more.


Very good points, I'm curious as to how my electric bill will change, since the 2217 uses 20 watts, while the 1200 uses 40. But I should be getting more flow, and I do like the baskets and shutoff valves, along with the button primer. I think the SunSun and Cobalt look to have the easiest operation, but all in all, I am giving cascade a shot and hoping for the best. I will report back later with it. The biggest concern I have is that it apparently has space between baskets and canister, but I think I can fill them with floss or something.

Tanks for all your help on this!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

djb7880 said:


> Very good points, I'm curious as to how my electric bill will change, since the 2217 uses 20 watts, while the 1200 uses 40.


Using an average of 12 centers per KWH 20 watts difference on a 30 day month is a whopping $1.73. 

Good luck noticing.


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

I know this off subject but what about a sump instead of a canister? I run both and all canister will at one time or another leak or have maintenance issues. As long as you have a gasket you always have the potential of a leak. The sump takes me about 10 minutes to clean once week and it has never leaked.


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