# Algae all over my Christmas Moss ( please help)



## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

An 11 hour photoperiod is quite long. Given the proximity of the moss to the light, it is unsurprising it is developing algae as well.

I would try shortening the photoperiod, for starters


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## Devilsur (Mar 21, 2018)

My bad, is not *11*h a day, is *9*h a day. from 1pm till 10pm.

For the first 2 months my photoperiod was *10*h a day, the moss was growing well but I was getting some hair algae on the top brances.

After I saw that I removed the compromised moss, did a major trimming, replaced the moss with algae from leftovers and changed my photoperiod to *6*h a day ( since there was way less moss because of the trimming).
And started adding comprehensive.

And every week for the last 2 months I gradually increased the photoperiod till present (*9*h a day).

I really did my research beforehand, I'm not the type of person to just do it and if goes wrong, complain and ask why..

I really feel bad I couldn't do better from start.


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## jmontee (Mar 20, 2009)

Devilsur said:


> My bad, is not *11*h a day, is *9*h a day. from 1pm till 10pm.
> 
> For the first 2 months my photoperiod was *10*h a day, the moss was growing well but I was getting some hair algae on the top brances.
> 
> ...


The photoperiod really shouldn't, IMO, have to do with the amount of moss you have but with the length of time that gives you good growth and little algae. I think that, depending on the light intensity, 9 hours is also a long photoperiod. I have a fully planted tank with lots more than moss and my photoperiod is about 7 hours. 

Also, unfortunately in my experience (only mine don't know about others) I had some Christmas moss that was covered in hair algae with no hair algae any where else.


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## aquazone (Jul 9, 2003)

Looks like a focused light problem. The algae is right in the light path on the first photo. If it were me, I'd ditch the spotlight, get a full length led, start my photoperiod around 5 hours and work up from there. You could then remove the most affected moss, transplant, and see how it goes. Some Amano shrimp would help. Not knowing anything about your water parameters, something also might be out of whack.


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## Devilsur (Mar 21, 2018)

Can someone please identify the algae?










If is too much light now, how come the first 2 months had only hair algae on top branches and the lower branches were dense and " bushy".

Now with 2 more months form 6 to 9 photoperiod there is algae all over the moss ( a different type of algae), and the lower branches are not dense at all anymore, and growing loose and upringt, as in search of light.

From the looks of it I need to take all out. But If i don't find out what was the problem, I cannot try again.. :icon_sad:


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

what kind of light is that? More details?

Many IMO get this wrong. They start out with 8-11 hrs of light and then adjust, when they really should be running around 4-5 at startup and slowly increase if things look good.


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

As mentioned it is definitely a light intensity issue. I have fought my fair share with algae infested moss. Lighting is the key. Moss can thrive in tap water alone, if the light isn't too intense. You could get a bottle of seachem excel and "spot dose" the troublesome areas to knock it back some. Do this with the filter off and right before a water change. I would first manually remove as much as possible with a toothbrush. That, combined with raising/dimming the light will most likely rid the moss of algae in a couple weeks.


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## Devilsur (Mar 21, 2018)

aquazone said:


> Looks like a focused light problem. The algae is right in the light path on the first photo. If it were me, I'd ditch the spotlight, get a full length led, start my photoperiod around 5 hours and work up from there. You could then remove the most affected moss, transplant, and see how it goes. Some Amano shrimp would help. Not knowing anything about your water parameters, something also might be out of whack.


Then why on the right away from the spotlight has alot of algae?












houseofcards said:


> what kind of light is that? More details?
> 
> Many IMO get this wrong. They start out with 8-11 hrs of light and then adjust, when they really should be running around 4-5 at startup and slowly increase if things look good.


Is a 24 watt 48leds 5500-6000k


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## Vinster8108 (Sep 1, 2016)

Different types of algae come and go dependent on your tank parameters and water quality. This new algae likely just out competed the hair algae. It looks like stagehorn to me, but I'm not 100%. I haven't dealt with this type of algae, but I believe it responds well to excel/h2o2. What I think may have happened in the moss is limited by one of the NPK nutrients and now can't continue to grow. Thus, this new algae has overtaken it. 

Here's my suggestion. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/203684-one-two-punch-whole-tank-algae-treatment.html Take a look at this thread and see what you think. I would remove your shrimp/corys if you can or dose the H2O2 lightly. It will still work. 

After hitting the algae pretty hard, we need to address whats causing the issue. For a low tech tank, that's balancing lighting and fertilizers. Flourish comprehensive doesn't have NPK at very high levels. I would check you nitrate and phosphate levels to see what they are at. A good starting place might be 10-20ppm NO3 and 2ppm PO4. Flourish does make these nutirents, but dry ferts are typically cheaper. Thrive is a well balanced (NPK balance) low tech all-in-on fertilizer.
As for lighting, your have three options to play with: decrease your photoperiod, raise your light or buy a different light. 9 hours is pretty long and 24w LED spot is focuses light pretty intensely. I would raise you light up and start at a 6 hour photoperiod. You can break up the photoperiod if you'd like to see the tank in the morning and evening. I run my tanks 4 hours on, 4 off and 4 on again. 8-12pm and 4-8pm. 

Monitor the lower moss and watch the top for algae. So long as the bottom moss isn't dying off I would keep the lighting at the new set point. The moss may just grow slower. If the moss stops growing (it will be hard tell), check your nutrients and lower your light an inch or something small. Trimming the moss weekly/bi-weekly will help you get that dense look I believe you are going for. 

Little changes over 2 weeks is the best way to really tell what's working/isn't working.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Devilsur said:


> Then why on the right away from the spotlight has alot of algae?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How big is the tank? How many lumens is the light?


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## Devilsur (Mar 21, 2018)

My tank is 47x16x20" tall

The light has 1920 LM

I can move the light up, but by the looks of it in person I cannot save the moss, and I have no place to put my stock while doing it (And I have a few small L201 that are impossible to catch..) .
I can just remove all and try again but need a good plan.

Bump:


Vinster8108 said:


> Thrive is a well balanced (NPK balance) low tech all-in-on fertilizer.



I will see if I can find that fertilizer here (Europe).

So, my plan is to take it all out and try again.

-My questions are, should I dose fertilizer from the get go?

- Since I'm trying from the start and I don't want to go insane, I would like to try this time with Phoenix Moss.
Bad idea?


And I really appreciate all of you for the help and input on the subject! roud:

Edit: I do not have a kit test for NO3 and PO4... ( only NO2)
My NH3 is fine tho.


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

the light is overkill

the moss are itty bitty and need less light. 

i would start around 4-5 hours a day and move up as the plant volume builds up.


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## aquazone (Jul 9, 2003)

IntotheWRX said:


> the light is overkill
> 
> the moss are itty bitty and need less light.
> 
> i would start around 4-5 hours a day and move up as the plant volume builds up.


+1 on that


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Devilsur said:


> My tank is 47x16x20" tall
> 
> The light has 1920 LM
> 
> .


On a tank that size that really doesn't sound like a lot of light. Is that stuff growing on the wood itself. I assume your not running co2.


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## Devilsur (Mar 21, 2018)

houseofcards said:


> On a tank that size that really doesn't sound like a lot of light. Is that stuff growing on the wood itself. I assume your not running co2.



Right, I'm not running anything, only dosing comprehensive. 

Is also on a few branches but mostly on the moss.


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## Devilsur (Mar 21, 2018)

After much consideration I came to the conclusion that I will give up on moss for now.


I gonna lift the light abit and replace all the moss with Anubias Nana Mini.

Since Anubias are slow growers I will not use fertilizer, in order to avoid algae grow.

May someone please help me with some doubts ?
My question are:
- Should I dose Excel in order to prevent algae?
- If so, how much and how frequent should I use it?
- My idea is to start with 6h photoperid, is ok based on my light?

I also have Neocaridina shrimp in the aquarium, but I found out alot of people use excel in shrimp tanks, event tho is not ideal..


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## aquazone (Jul 9, 2003)

Check this out - made me think of looking at your tank. Seems to be the same algae.


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Devilsur said:


> After much consideration I came to the conclusion that I will give up on moss for now.
> 
> 
> I gonna lift the light abit and replace all the moss with Anubias Nana Mini.
> ...


excel does help prevent algae. they help sterilize the algae spores in your water.

you can dose how ever much you like. I heard people dosing up to 300% the recommended. I like to give it a squirt into my tank every couple days or so.

6hr photoperiod is a great place to start. adjust accordingly after.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

Devilsur said:


> Can someone please identify the algae?


staghorn related. Although the long, less branched variety is more common nowadays. High light, high organic load, low CO2.. any of them can cause it 




Devilsur said:


> If is too much light now, how come the first 2 months had only hair algae on top branches and the lower branches were dense and " bushy".
> 
> Now with 2 more months form 6 to 9 photoperiod there is algae all over the moss ( a different type of algae), and the lower branches are not dense at all anymore, and growing loose and upringt, as in search of light.::


Listen to what @aquazone said. You have 2 things going here:
1) comparing a tank with itself from 2 months ago, or a week ago is like expecting to get the exact same tasting tomatoes year after year because you farm the same piece of land. There are many factors that influence the outcome, some you know some you don't see, some you can measure some you cannot. Things change in your aquarium, fish waste accumulates, etc. 

2) the light distribution is very skewed. As the photo shows you can have areas with very low intensity and areas with very high intensity. In your case this is because the concentrated source close to the water surface but it can also occur when other plants or hardscape overshadow the lower plants.





houseofcards said:


> On a tank that size that really doesn't sound like a lot of light. Is that stuff growing on the wood itself. I assume your not running co2.


You have a lot of concentrated light at the top in that little area that has algae. The aquarium volume does not matter when your light source is as concentrated as that. Play with a flashlight in a large dark room to see why.



Devilsur said:


> From the looks of it I need to take all out. But If i don't find out what was the problem, I cannot try again.. :icon_sad:


Having algae is part of having a living planted aquarium. Ask any winning/famous/marketed aquascaper and they will say that their long term aquascapes had some algae at one point or another, or that if they do this or that algae will come. They had algae, they know algae but choose to focus on growing plants well. I say long term because many aquariums you see on youtube and at conferences are freshly planted with a bunch of plants. Give them somewhere between 2 wks and 2 months and the fun will start.


If it would be simple to have a nice planted aquarium it would not be anything of worth. Just like master painters did not become masters overnight do not expect to be an expert overnight. I don't want to discourage you, but you will have algae problems for some time, focus on growing plants well, the algae will go away. Restarting the tanks will create a new system with new instabilities. Algae will follow, another type maybe but they will come. 

Use this already cycled aquarium, get a more distributed light, get some more plant diversity, some fast growing easy plants like Egeria, Hygrophila polysperma, Vallisneria etc. They will help keep the system more stable. Remove them as needed, and when moss fills in well remove all of them if you still want to.





IntotheWRX said:


> you can dose how ever much you like. I heard people dosing up to 300% the recommended.


Yeah, I would not phrase it like that, especially with a starting member in mind. 3x standard dose is hardly "how ever much you like". Put any plant in pure Excel for 24h and you will see why you should not dose without measure. Overdosing works in some cases but kills in others. Water parameters, organics and organism vulnerability play a big role here. Spot dosing with excel works well. You can do it in batches without exceeding a normal dose.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

The moss isnt happy is why it has algae. If you're only dosing flourish comprehensive you may be running short on macro nutrients.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

From what I see, you need more light to start. My moss is a nitrate/phosphate hog, as burr740 mentioned if you arent dosing macro nutes your moss will suffer for it. I also fan mine out weekly during waterchanges to get detritus out of it (moss really attracts and clings to everything). Mine seems to appreciate bright light, and good flow. I grow this moss in high and low tech tanks, love the stuff. 
This tank has been up and running for 8 months.


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## Devilsur (Mar 21, 2018)

aquazone said:


> Check this out - made me think of looking at your tank. Seems to be the same algae.


Poor guy, he sure has alot of dedication and time ( I suppose)



burr740 said:


> The moss isnt happy is why it has algae. If you're only dosing flourish comprehensive you may be running short on macro nutrients.


Before I bought comprehensive I searched and came to the conclusion that was a good all around fert since moss is a slow grower, so fish waste and food is more that enough.
And do not forget is a low-tech.



KrypleBerry said:


> From what I see, you need more light to start. My moss is a nitrate/phosphate hog, as burr740 mentioned if you arent dosing macro nutes your moss will suffer for it. I also fan mine out weekly during waterchanges to get detritus out of it (moss really attracts and clings to everything). Mine seems to appreciate bright light, and good flow. I grow this moss in high and low tech tanks, love the stuff.
> This tank has been up and running for 8 months.


Such a beautiful tank, a man can only dream..

Is very hard to take all the input available and make the best decision, alot of times I find contradictory information and for a newbie is frustrating at times. 
Also what works for one may not work for another, because not all is considered.
I also imagine how hard is to give advice with limited information..

Unfortunately I don't have alot of time available to dedicate myself at such a high level.

Btw what is that plant that grows above your tank?


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## Devilsur (Mar 21, 2018)

So, this is my tank atm..










I will go with anubias nana mini or petite, (whatever is called), to give that tree looking I imagined from the start.

I really want to keep the light, so I will raise it abit ( not sure how much tho..)

As you can see, I have 6 anubias on the bottom of the tank, from left to right. had them from the start ( 5 months) and never had algae on them. 
So, If I gonna glue them on the top branches and add more, I think is more than sure I have to lift my light level..


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## aquazone (Jul 9, 2003)

Good luck!! If it were easy, everyone would have a planted masterpiece at home.


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## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

I think you need to invest in a light more suitable for plants in an aquarium otherwise you are destined to live up to your "algae grower" status. Such high intensity in a narrow band that quickly fades to darkness is just asking for trouble.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

Devilsur said:


> aquazone said:
> 
> 
> > Check this out - made me think of looking at your tank. Seems to be the same algae.
> ...


Thank you for the kind words. This tank takes 20 min per week to maintain, I designed and planted with low maintenance in mind. There are 80 fish in this 60 gallon cube and I still have to dose micro and macro nutrients weekly (very easy and cheap with dry nutrients) to maintain the plants. 

The emmersed plants are pacific maiden's hair fern and purple wandering jew also in a planter wrapped in christmas moss that is also now growing emersed (i may have a problem), haha I just love the stuff. I also have a second clear hanging planter filled with sphagnum moss and a wick on the outside with a phalaenopsis orchid growing in it. 

I prefer using reverse osmosis water and adjusting parameters to the needs of the species in each display, it allows me to keep whatever I want (within reason) and really isnt very expensive to do. As long as you stay ontop of your products and schedule (consistency is key) getting a routine going is the hardest part for most. You are getting good advice in here, there are many aspects to consider when one wants to achieve balance so no single anecdote, product, or question will fix all. 

To fix this issue for long term success you will need to reconsider lighting (a major issue many brought up), plant nutrition (another major issue that needs addressing), water chemistry, and possibly maintenance routines. It seems overwhelming, and can easily become so if you take advice from 50+ people (thats a lot of varying perspective and would be enough to boggle anyone). Start with fixing the fundamental issues that you see many here repeating (theres good reason you see this). Make corrections from there until you find balance and then maintain, this hobby really demands patience if you want optimal results (we all go through / have been through our growing pains).


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