# balloon rams/GBR cross breeds?



## markopolo (Jun 2, 2008)

ewwww


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## dragonthoughts (Sep 24, 2008)

markopolo said:


> ewwww


huh?

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/533.htm
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/RamCichlid.php
they are supposedly color variations of the same fish, so no. there is no crossbreeding between the same species. they may breed though if you can set up the tank to their liking. research discus tanks, they like the same setup.


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## dragonthoughts (Sep 24, 2008)

pic


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Balloon rams are man made variation of GBR. They have been bred to have that shape.


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

Balloon fish of any kind are bred specifically to have spinal deformities. These fish used to be culled but not now, because people seem to think it's cute and will buy them.

Many people find this practice unethical and inhumane and wouldn't wish to breed them.

The first linked article has this information:



> Balloon rams are rather unfortunate heavily selectively bred creatures with massive midbody swelling and spinal curvature giving them a bloated appearance.The average specimen will be plagued by ill health and the legacy of deformity.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

seAdams said:


> Balloon fish of any kind are bred specifically to have spinal deformities. These fish used to be culled but not now, because people seem to think it's cute and will buy them.
> 
> Many people find this practice unethical and inhumane and wouldn't wish to breed them.
> 
> The first linked article has this information:


Diformaties have been selectivly breed for a very long time. I dont see anything wrong with breeding them to regular GBR. One thing you might think about doing is culling out the "balloon" gene. It probably wont be to hard to do so.


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## dragonthoughts (Sep 24, 2008)

who knows. 
I see people saying they are a seperate species, bred for appearance, even a cross between rams and angels...
They do seem more teritorial than the blue rams.
if it is a spinal deformity then they aren't affected by it. very agile and quite zippy. very much unlike the balloon mollies I've seen. more like discus.
Has anyone x-rayed one of these guys? perhaps it's just stubby genes, no deformities.

From what I've read GBR's tend to breed how they want, not how the keeper decides to pair them. that would almost lead me to believe the different species idea.

I don't know.


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## nikonD70s (Apr 6, 2008)

hmm...guess ill find out in the future if they'll cross breed or not.


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## valerietheangel (Jan 6, 2008)

From what I've read GBR's tend to breed how they want, not how the keeper decides to pair them. that would almost lead me to believe the different species idea.

They are NOT a separate species, they were selectively bred (just like balloon mollies and platies) to have that shape. It tends to inhibit growth and movement and also the fish usually do not live as long as a normal fish, not bred for an abnormality.

A crash course on basic fish genetics: japanese fish keepers started keeping koi thousands of years ago. Since then, they've selectively bred for different colors, shapes, and finnage. The same thing has happened to nearly all freshwater species commonly kept today. They haven't been kept as long, however they've been selectively bred in sometimes very perverse ways. 

Take parrot cichlids, a hybrid (a cross between two or more species) that looks incredibly deformed. Many are dyed incredibly ridiculous colors (this means they were physically injected with a dye inserted with a hypodermic needle) in colors like hot pink, neon green, and purple. Those fish would never survive in the wild and are completely unethical in every way.

The easiest example of all: the common fancy guppy. It was selectively bred from something that looked similar to an endler's livebearer to the showy, longfinned, utterly-unsuited-to-anything-other-than-captivity creatures they are today. You would never see a full black or moscow blue guppy swimming around in a tributary in the wild. 

Hybrids and breeding for physical deformities is a topic that really disgusts me.

ETA: I didn't even get to the question at hand: Yes, they probably will cross-breed, but why would you ever want to?


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## nikonD70s (Apr 6, 2008)

oh no, i dont want them to. i just wasnt sure if they would or not. so i asked but if they do i will most likely get rid of them. thanks everyone!


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## mgamer20o0 (Mar 8, 2007)

dragonthoughts said:


> who knows.
> I see people saying they are a seperate species, bred for appearance, even a cross between rams and angels...
> They do seem more teritorial than the blue rams.
> if it is a spinal deformity then they aren't affected by it. very agile and quite zippy. very much unlike the balloon mollies I've seen. more like discus.
> ...


people say a lot of things doesnt make it true..... its the same with guppies look at all the colors just selective breed for that.


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

Ballon rams = GBR that was bred for its deformities, and yes they will cross breed with regular GBR

and no rams will NOT cross breed with angels, they are a complete different genus and species


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## nikonD70s (Apr 6, 2008)

so if they cross breed how would the baby come out like? regular GBR's or you think half and half or a different body type?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I personally find all the "ballon" fish to be unhealthy deformaties. Breeding for color is one thing, breeding for less space for internal organs is another. Most of these fish are mass-bred in Asia and also pumped full of hormones.

IMO crossing regular GBRs with ballon will most likely result in less healthy fish than if you stuck with regular GBRs. Whether or not the balloon trait is dominant or recessive (or partially dominant, yada yada yada) trait isn't something that you can tell just by looking at a fish, you'd have to try it and see.


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## nikonD70s (Apr 6, 2008)

thanks laura, i will most likely get rid of the balloon rams then. well the GBR will be coming in tomarrow. by the way i just picked up 6 cory sterbai's for 4.99 each is that cheap? and im planning to get 4 more soon.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yep, that's a pretty good price on C. sterbai. They sell around here usually for $10-12 each, though occasionally you can find them around that price.


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## bull (Nov 17, 2008)

*baloon rams*

i have 2 balloon rams which i bought not too long ago(a week maybe)and in general i am new in fish keeping.But i have to say that i am extremely happy with my purchase and if there is any genetic deformations with these breed it dosn't affect them in any way.


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## snafu (Oct 9, 2004)

i wouldn't worry about it too much or the opinions of others. keep the kind of fish you like. some people would consider fancy goldfish to be deformed monsters, while in other circles they are very much revered with fish societies dedicated to their keep. i think eventually after keeping fish for a long time, people come to appreciate the beauty of the natural form. unfortunately, people also become a lot less tolerant and more opinionated.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I mostly agree with you, Snaf. However, I DO wish people would stay away from dyed and injected fish. There's really no defending the practice, and if people knew how they got those colors, I tend to think most would avoid them. And if people stopped buying them, the industry would stop dying them.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> I mostly agree with you, Snaf. However, I DO wish people would stay away from dyed and injected fish. There's really no defending the practice, and if people knew how they got those colors, I tend to think most would avoid them. And if people stopped buying them, the industry would stop dying them.


*hugs* BRR - glad to see ya back!


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