# LED Efficiency: I Need Some Convincing



## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

I don't mean that to be a snarky statement. I just don't understand how the basic numbers add up to real savings. 

For instance I'm currently using 39 watt T5HO bulbs with high quality parabolic reflectors on my show tank. 

Each bulb is rated for ~3,500 lumens 

A Cree XP-G draws about 3 volts at 1,000 amps and puts out about 350 lumens. 

So I would need 10 of these running at full power to equate to one T5HO bulb's output for a total of 30 watts. Yes, I realize it's acutally a little more than that, but I rounded to make things easier. 

So, it's about 25% more efficient, but the initial cost is still significantly higher than a nice DIY T5HO setup and regardless of what people say I find T5HO bulbs last a couple of years before they need replacing. I have verified this using our club's Apogee PAR meter. 

What am I missing? Are the T5's lumen ratings not a fair comparison because the light is multidirectional?


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## MarkM (Sep 16, 2012)

AaronT said:


> I don't mean that to be a snarky statement. I just don't understand how the basic numbers add up to real savings.
> 
> For instance I'm currently using 39 watt T5HO bulbs with high quality parabolic reflectors on my show tank.
> 
> ...


I did it at the other end. I replaced a dual T5HO fixture with a BML LED fixture. I measured the current at 110VAC that the fixtures were drawing while producing the same Par value at my substrate. The LED fixture draws 42% of the current that the T5 did. Power is roughly equal to current times voltage so my LEDs are consuming less than half what the T5s were.

Part of the difference has to be wasted energy in terms of heat. The T5s produced a lot more heat, so much that a fan was required to remove it from the fixture.

I will be old and gray before I recoup my investment in the LED fixture and don't expect that to happen. The LEDs are silent which is large for me, the LEDs are 1/4 the size which is nice, the LEDs have a dimmer which allows me to fine tune the number of micro moles or Par I am delivering, and I like the idea of consuming less energy.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

AaronT said:


> So, it's about 25% more efficient, but the initial cost is still significantly higher than a nice DIY T5HO setup and regardless of what people say I find T5HO bulbs last a couple of years before they need replacing. I have verified this using our club's Apogee PAR meter.


Hello,

I am just an amater in lighting, but I can say that in Canada T5HO bulbs cost 20$ and more each. They must be replaced each year, theorically. Maybe they last longer but at one point I had a Coralife bulb fail on me after 4 months, quite frustrating. Led can fail too but their life is much longer theorically.

Cree XP-G are not the most advanced leds anymore, already. Cree XML-U3 can go now to more than 1000 lumens at maximum wattage I believe.

One other thing to consider is that leds allow for more sleek fixtures than the fluorescents.

Michel.


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

If I already had a good fixture I wouldn't have gone LED. I needed 3 fixtures to light my tank. Hopefully they last.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

It's even better when you don't spend $20 per bulb... You can get *4* bulbs from a horticulture supply house for less than $20 total. When bulbs are that cheap it makes it easy to experiment and mix and match to get the look you want. 

Regarding fans, there are silent options, especially if you're doing a retrofit. And many LED setups require them too, so it's not exactly a clear cut advantage to LED fixtures.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

MarkM said:


> I did it at the other end. I replaced a dual T5HO fixture with a BML LED fixture. I measured the current at 110VAC that the fixtures were drawing while producing the same Par value at my substrate. The LED fixture draws 42% of the current that the T5 did. Power is roughly equal to current times voltage so my LEDs are consuming less than half what the T5s were.
> 
> Part of the difference has to be wasted energy in terms of heat. The T5s produced a lot more heat, so much that a fan was required to remove it from the fixture.
> 
> I will be old and gray before I recoup my investment in the LED fixture and don't expect that to happen. The LEDs are silent which is large for me, the LEDs are 1/4 the size which is nice, the LEDs have a dimmer which allows me to fine tune the number of micro moles or Par I am delivering, and I like the idea of consuming less energy.





micheljq said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am just an amater in lighting, but I can say that in Canada T5HO bulbs cost 20$ and more each. They must be replaced each year, theorically. Maybe they last longer but at one point I had a Coralife bulb fail on me after 4 months, quite frustrating. Led can fail too but their life is much longer theorically.
> 
> ...


I second these opinions, and want to add a few things like ease of dimming, color choices and PAR targeting.
ADMITTEDLY the savings are possibly not great (though there generally are there) comparing flour. w/ LED but overall, LED's win.
For an industrial comparison:
http://rmstoof.com/pdf/LED_advantages.pdf

2780Lumens.. LED watts 25 - 28..CFL watts 30 - 55...Incandescent watts 150
http://eartheasy.com/live_energyeff_lighting.htm


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

jeffkrol said:


> but overall, LED's win.


Well there you have it everyone. No more conversations or discussion necessary, LEDs just win.


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## 10487 (Jan 6, 2007)

any particular brands that you would recommend?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

AaronT said:


> What am I missing? Are the T5's lumen ratings not a fair comparison because the light is multidirectional?


^This. You can minimize T5 lumen loss with premium reflectors, but no matter what, you'll still lose some.

And here in Louisiana where we run our air conditioner most of the year, every bit of extra heat has to be pumped out of the house; so we get a little extra payback from highly efficient lighting.



AaronT said:


> So, it's about 25% more efficient, but the initial cost is still significantly higher than a nice DIY T5HO setup and regardless of what people say I find T5HO bulbs last a couple of years before they need replacing. I have verified this using our club's Apogee PAR meter.


I ran the same T5HO's for two years, in a custom dimmable fixture that let me start under 100%, then turn it up to compensate for lumen loss as time went on. At the end of that period I had been at 100% for months and judged (by eye and plant response, no PAR meter) that the output had finally dropped too much, and was looking distinctly yellowish. I then replaced one bulb, and ran the old and the new bulbs side by side (same type, and even purchased same date - I planned this test from the start). After a burn-in period, the difference was clear to the eye, but I also took a photo and compared RGB values in Photoshop. This verified a definite spectral shift, with blue taking a much greater hit compared to red or overall luminosity. Plants need not just light, but a reasonable spectral balance. I have no doubt many people replace bulbs before it's truly necessary, but I also want make clear that PAR alone doesn't tell the full story.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I have a couple of observations I'd like addressed.
62,437 times I've read that the coating inside of the tubes breaks down and the bulb no longer provides the correct spectrum(?)
needed by the plants. Based on experience only, not on "might be", "I think" or "I heard"...just on experience alone...is there someone
in the crowd that has used T5's for 2 years specifically on a planted tank and not noticed ANY difference in the growth during the 
second year of that ? 
The second of my observations is quite simple...overkill !!! But I guess it depends on the intended use. Because up until now
the main subject seems to be cost effectiveness. The better of the LED's don't seem to be but about 50-75% higher in price
till you get to one of the BML ones and their ready made units aren't significantly higher at all than the mentioned 50-75%
that the rest are higher than T5's. Then also a T5 rarely comes in single bulb fixtures. Catalina had one but I don't know if they
still sell it. Now that overkill issue can be addressed by tuning a BML fixture down so the projected PAR isn't through the ceiling.
But those BML custom fixtures cost more than 200% higher than what a T5 fixture does. Closer to 400%. The difference between
$89.00 and $380.00 to be specific(in a 48").
So if it uses 1/3rd of the Watts that's a savings of about $10 per month and that means it would take 35 months minus
the cost of one new set of bulbs to break even(on a dual bulb fixture). After 2.5 years I'll start saving $100 a year on it.
The savings start quicker/w the ready made models of course.
I guess If a person actually wants "out of this world" speed of growth rate then it's "the" way to go.
But in all fairness let's include the cost of injected CO2 into this as it's mandatory/w most of the top LED's.
Just trying to point out that there are many many parts to this one besides cost per month to operate.


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## MarkM (Sep 16, 2012)

Here is a picture of my 120G low tech planted. It uses a BML 60" LED with a 10,000K color spectrum. No CO2, once a week dry ferts, running for about 4 months now. [pic taken day before a major cut and trim]











And here is a picture of my 50G with a 48" BML 7,000K fixture. This one is also low tech and has been running for about a year with the LED and seven years before that with T5s.


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## skanderson (Jul 25, 2010)

if your question is just are they more efficient the answer is definately yes. the problem is that people dont compare apples to apples. a t5ho light system with single reflectors is a mature technology that will not get any more efficient. the leds you quoted are 2009 tech and have been vastly improved. there are now 2 different manufacturers that say they will be producing a 200 lumen/watt led by 2015. the question of whether a fixture would be more cost effective for you can only be answered by looking at the costs of the fixtures and replacement bulbs, and the total electric cost. i personally think that alot of the high end premade led fixtures may not be cost effective but that you can certainly build one that would be. im not trying to sell anything here but i would be stunned if in 20 years anyone is selling new flourescent fixtures. i am planning on replacing the 4 8 bulb t5 ho units over my big viv sometime in the next year or 2 but am thinking of delaying a bit longer just to see what is coming out.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

AaronT said:


> I don't mean that to be a snarky statement. I just don't understand how the basic numbers add up to real savings.
> 
> For instance I'm currently using 39 watt T5HO bulbs with high quality parabolic reflectors on my show tank.
> 
> ...


Hi AaronT,

I did a little cost analysis regarding doing an LED upgrade verses the fluorescent fixture I had. Maybe this will help.



> Saving money on electricity consumption is good, however the real savings for replacing power compact or T5HO lamps with L.E.D. lamp arrays in not the electricity cost. For example on that 30 gallon if I replaced the two 36 watt power compact lamps with a 20 watt array I would save approximately 52 watts per hour. I run my light 6 hours a day so I would save 312 watt/hours per day or 0.3 KWH per day. Over the course of a 30 day month that would save 30 x 0.3 = 9.0 KWH. I pay about $0.10 per KHW so I would save $0.90 per month or $10.80 per year.
> 
> The real savings however are the cost of replacing the power compact lamps. Typically I pay about $15 per lamp and I replace them every 12 months because I have noted a 20% drop in the PAR values over that period. L.E.D. arrays have an estimated life expectancy of 30,000 hours (13.7 years at 6 hours per day). Therefore my annual savings per year is the $30 (2 bulbs) and $10.80 (electricity) for a total annual savings of $40.80. The cost of the 20 watt LED lamp array is less than $85 so my payback period is little over 2 years assuming electricity and bulbs do no go up in price..


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

skanderson said:


> if your question is just are they more efficient the answer is definately yes. the problem is that people dont compare apples to apples. a t5ho light system with single reflectors is a mature technology that will not get any more efficient. the leds you quoted are 2009 tech and have been vastly improved. there are now 2 different manufacturers that say they will be producing a 200 lumen/watt led by 2015. the question of whether a fixture would be more cost effective for you can only be answered by looking at the costs of the fixtures and replacement bulbs, and the total electric cost. i personally think that alot of the high end premade led fixtures may not be cost effective but that you can certainly build one that would be. im not trying to sell anything here but i would be stunned if in 20 years anyone is selling new flourescent fixtures. i am planning on replacing the 4 8 bulb t5 ho units over my big viv sometime in the next year or 2 but am thinking of delaying a bit longer just to see what is coming out.


You want plasma lighting, LEDs are old news!

---

You can have an efficient plant growing light and it can look horrible to the human eye. That's why I got a chuckle about the PDF link about corporate lighting comparisons. It's just dollars and cents, there is no art happening under those lights. While efficiency is great, it isn't the end all when it comes to displays like aquariums in our homes. It needs grow plants AND look good.

My take on it, the efficiency jump isn't big enough for the tradeoffs. It's not like the reef end of the hobby where they had 1000+ watts over their tanks. For them the change to T5HO or LED really made sense. On our side of the hobby lighting requirements are small in comparison. With the cost difference being so minimal, it basically just comes down to aesthetics and that's personal preference.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Just what I thought, and another person who has calculated/w the same basic results as mine on that efficiency thing.
And BTW thanks for the PAR reading on the T5 bulbs after 1 year also as I was replacing after 9 months.
And my T5 bulbs cost under $10 and top brands at that...try Doctors F & S (I do use the 18" ones).
Perhaps this aria of LED will change after a couple more years also but cost effectiveness is lower on my list than
viewing effectiveness. The straight down bit/w the LED's discourages me to an extreme. Shadows and more shadows.
Throughout this entire thread it's been T5's vrs the LED's. I do use ten G tanks and likely this wouldn't fly in a much larger 
tank but I use T8's in one tank in favor of any other. Had an LED in there and junked it due to poorer light distribution.
The T8's are in single bulb fixtures and one at back plus one at front equals very much better light distribution in
this tank than the LED which was on it.
It would evidently seem that a DIY LED would be a best option to this issue and in about two more years, when LED gets 
up to the level of Fluorescent tech I'll start trying this. For now, the T8 strips cost me $8 each and the bulbs cost $6 for
one and $12 for the other so when you can buy two LED fixtures, one for the back of the tank and one for the front of
it for only twice as much as I've paid for my T8 set up...let me know and I'll jump right in on it.

BTW: I must say I'm impressed by the lack of algae in MarkM's tanks considering no CO2.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

prototyp3 said:


> You want plasma lighting, LEDs are old news!
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


One of my main points(the first paragraph) and to that point it's interesting to note that at Aquascaping contest
the T5 lights have it over the LED's by 93%.


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## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

prototyp3 said:


> You want plasma lighting, LEDs are old news



You buying? 

Last time I looked LEP lighting was $11-1300 and up.

I don't see the efficacy in a fixture that I will never see a return on before I have to replace it. Sure, it puts out more par but for the price, I can get just as good growth from LED and not to mention it is more compact and affordable. Plasma lighting has been around for a good 3-4 years on the reef side. As long as LED keeps making it's advances it has been making which has been leaps and bounds I don't see LEP becoming a major player especially at the price they are selling at and for the size of them.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Texan78 said:


> You buying?
> 
> Last time I looked LEP lighting was $11-1300 and up.
> 
> I don't see the efficacy in a fixture that I will never see a return on before I have to replace it. Sure, it puts out more par but for the price, I can get just as good growth from LED and not to mention it is more compact and affordable. Plasma lighting has been around for a good 3-4 years on the reef side. As long as LED keeps making it's advances it has been making which has been leaps and bounds I don't see LEP becoming a major player especially at the price they are selling at and for the size of them.


It was a joke, but you should look up the Plasmalyte Sunstream 400 fixtures in development. They're taking pre-orders at $499 and $569 depending on the model.


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## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

prototyp3 said:


> It was a joke, but you should look up the Plasmalyte Sunstream 400 fixtures in development. They're taking pre-orders at $499 and $569 depending on the model.


I thought you might have been joking but wasn't sure. 

Yeah I think it is the 400R & 400U? 

It's like hanging a cast iron pan from your ceiling. Heard a while back they were adopting the Apple strategy and offering them in colors.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I still have yet to see good colors for reds and other plants for larger scale LED lighting. T5's did as well if not better than MH's and PC's. 

That's the main issue for me. It'll happen, just not sure WHEN.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Texan78 said:


> I thought you might have been joking but wasn't sure.
> 
> Yeah I think it is the 400R & 400U?
> 
> It's like hanging a cast iron pan from your ceiling. Heard a while back they were adopting the Apple strategy and offering them in colors.


As a side note, I like when manufacturers offer different colors. Aquariums are basically furniture, why should we be stuck with cheap black plastic shells when spending $500+?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

prototyp3 said:


> . That's why I got a chuckle about the PDF link about corporate lighting comparisons.


well what did you expect when the op asked for...


> LED Efficiency: I Need Some Convincing


.. 
Wasn't asking for a beauty contest..


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## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

prototyp3 said:


> As a side note, I like when manufacturers offer different colors. Aquariums are basically furniture, why should we be stuck with cheap black plastic shells when spending $500+?


Mine is under a canopy so it is never seen. So for some I know it would be nice to have a colored fixture but, pink? Really? :icon_mrgr


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

jeffkrol said:


> well what did you expect when the op asked for..... Wasn't asking for a beauty contest..


Dang, I was double quoted for maximum punishment!!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

prototyp3 said:


> Dang, I was double quoted for maximum punishment!!


fixed..:bounce:


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

If not pink, then perhaps Blaze Orange Camo...


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Pink is fine, as long as it's a Hello Kitty sulfur plasma.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

prototyp3 said:


> It's even better when you don't spend $20 per bulb... You can get *4* bulbs from a horticulture supply house for less than $20 total. When bulbs are that cheap it makes it easy to experiment and mix and match to get the look you want.


If I could find those kind of prices locally in my area for T5HO bulbs. They could be my choice for my next tank in a few years. That will be a question of costs, but during that time leds will continue to evolve, but T5HO prices may drop too.

I would even consider a quad T8 fluo fixture for a 4 foot tank because good T8 fixtures which are 4 foot long are easy to find, and T8 bulbs are so cheap.

Michel.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

micheljq said:


> If I could find those kind of prices locally in my area for T5HO bulbs. They could be my choice for my next tank in a few years. That will be a question of costs, but during that time leds will continue to evolve, but T5HO prices may drop too.


Market forces may not be in your favor on this.. at least for "specialty bulbs"..


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## Sgtreef (Jun 6, 2004)

What I have read and seen seems still a tad out of reach still at the moment, for me any way, but I am doing some smaller 6 and heat sink deals but for a full blown out tank at 6 feet would be like $2500.00 and that is not happening.


Jeff


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

micheljq said:


> If I could find those kind of prices locally in my area for T5HO bulbs. They could be my choice for my next tank in a few years. That will be a question of costs, but during that time leds will continue to evolve, but T5HO prices may drop too.
> 
> I would even consider a quad T8 fluo fixture for a 4 foot tank because good T8 fixtures which are 4 foot long are easy to find, and T8 bulbs are so cheap.
> 
> Michel.


Yeah, after finding affordable bulb options it made my choice easier. I bet I'm running pretty close to the same power draw as I would be with LEDs, probably less. 

In my case it was either one ATI Sunpower 6x24w or two Ecotech Marine Radions at 130w each. I saved about $550 up front on the hardware, and still have the color mixing, dimming control for sunsets and photoperiods + the ability to use lots of proven bulbs. And if I want to use all 144w (I'm craZy!) of my fixture for a 2700K look I can. If I want 144w of crazy actinics I can. Couldn't get that out of the LEDs. You can alter your color temp, but at each end of the spectrum you're sacrificing a lot of intensity in doing so. Bulbs get around that limitation nicely.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Like many said, I think that the main advantage in cost of LED's are in the bulb replacement category. Many people jump to say LED's are vastly more efficient because they are in many daily applications. Take a flashlight, going from an incandescent bulb to LED makes a huge difference. Plenty of lighting applications skipped floresents because they didn't really work, leading the everyday person thinking LED's are the greatest thing ever made. 

I am not saying LED's are not a great technology and as someone said, a great T5HO fixture with good ballasts, bulbs, and reflectors are not going to get any better than they are now where LED's have a long way to go. One reason I am not in a huge hurry to ditch my T5HO fixture.

One thing I do like is LED is a great way to go for low light. It's so hard to find a good low light fixture shallow tanks and a lower light LED fixture fits that bill great. I don't love mine due to color output but it is a great fixture that would be hard to replace with a quality florescent fixture, while staying low light, and staying attractive.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

And those who have low style tanks are the reason I stated earlier that T8 has been overlooked in this thread.
A ten gallon and any of the tanks/w an L behind the gallon number will get good variety in T8 fixtures, but single bulb
type unless going to an "other than aquarium" fixture. But in bulbs there exist a noticeable wide variety of color AND light
level type bulbs. And the single bulb fixtures allows you to use two spaced wide apart from each other giving much fewer
shadows in your tank than any LED can provide at anywhere close to the cost of.
For this reason I still use the T8's in one of my low tanks. To have a light level on the lower med level plus widely spaced
bulbs which eliminate the shadows. Plus they provide more color options in bulbs which are still good for plants.
I know the type of fixtures that I have are not available in over 18" so this won't be represented as applying to any "low"
tank, but when you find me a bulb/fixture combo which delivers all that at a total cost per fixture/bulb combo for under
$20...please let me know about it. Till then I am ol skool T8 convinced/convicted/addicted/restricted and very happy
about it...LOL...


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

I had a feeling this would be a divided discussion. I have friends using LEDs and they grow plants for sure and likely with less energy. I do share prototype and Tom's concerns that the color rendition isn't there and trying to get it there is costly and quickly eclipses the cost of new T5 bulbs every 1-2 years. 

I've been running the GE daylight T5s and supplementing with a nice red bulb and blue bulb to balance the color more. The GE bulbs can be found for ~$6 if you know where to look. Cheaper than that if you buy in boxes of 40.


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## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

I think this whole topic is being way over thought. I believe in the K.I.S.S. method and what I think I will like and what is comfortable for me. That is really what it boils down to in the end is what people prefer and are happy with. So really all that matters is....

1. Can it grow the plants in your tank?
2. Do you like the way it makes your tank look, fish, plants etc.?
3. Is it affordable and in your budget?
4. Is this a long term investment and something you're willing to live and be happy with?

So when you ask yourself those questions LED or T5/T8 is really irrelevant and if you need convincing then you have your answer. That is almost like saying "Man I am craving a steak but convince me that I want chicken". Why? Why would you need someone to convince you to think another way. You shouldn't need convincing. Are there pros and cons to each? Yes there is, but you should make your decision based on the facts and the 4 questions above. In the end you're the one using the light and it should be what works for you. Now what I seem to be confused about is those who are sticking with T5/T8 but have never owned or tried an LED but want to claim LED isn't a sufficient light. That doesn't seem like a fair assessment based on just reading what's on paper. That's like reading the stats of the football game and not watching the game but trying to comment on the game. The assessment can't be very accurate. It is obvious LED can grow plants, and to some make fish look good and it is personal taste. It is obvious that T5/T8 can grow plants and to some make fish look good and it is personal taste. Different strokes for different folks. Enough times of your bulbs exploding over your tank is enough to convincing anyone to go LED.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Texan78 said:


> I think this whole topic is being way over thought. I believe in the K.I.S.S. method and what I think I will like and what is comfortable for me. That is really what it boils down to in the end is what people prefer and are happy with. So really all that matters is....
> 
> 1. Can it grow the plants in your tank?
> 2. Do you like the way it makes your tank look, fish, plants etc.?
> ...


98% whole heartedly agree/w everything said here. Bought and retired an LED(probably sooner than I should have)
just so I could say yes I've actually tried them before making up my mind.

What's the 2% about ?
I thought that a forum/thread was specifically FOR the purpose of over thinking whatever it was that is being discussed
as it reveals details as yet unknown to some who may read it.
What a blessing to be a member here as "we" seem to "share" the info in a most polite and friendly manner.
Quite unlike another forum I belong to. A true shame when an otherwise intelligent mind also has the social skills
level of a child and uses the forum(the other one) to grasp any technical error made by other members as an
opportunity to belittle that person in front of everyone on the forum each and ever time they get the chance to.
Count your blessing everyone on this forum as it's a bit of heaven on earth here.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Texan78 said:


> So when you ask yourself those questions LED or T5/T8 is really irrelevant and if you need convincing then you have your answer. That is almost like saying "Man I am craving a steak but convince me that I want chicken". Why? Why would you need someone to convince you to think another way. You shouldn't need convincing.


I think that may be some but a few of us are more on the page of "I really want to try some good chicken but every time I have tried it it's been cooked wrong so I will stay with my steak". 
I think I fit in there. I bought my first LED fixture, which I still use, but I really didn't consider the color rendering. That's fine as it was a cheap fixture and didn't set me back much but it did make me realize that I will really struggle to get what I want without seeing a fixture on a tank, in person, which isn't really easy to do.

Another analogy would be "I am content with my hamburger so why pay more for steak?"
I fit in there too. I have a good T5HO fixture and to get some of the most basic features of my T5HO fixture, I need something with a programmable dimmer. LED's will look better doing the job but my T5HO does it fine having 2 banks of lights and moon lights. That jumps me up into a fairly expensive category. 

Combine those two factors and I need a super controllable fixture. I need something with that can be dimmed automatically globally, while having control of the color spectrum. That is pretty pricey right now and not widely available except on custom built units so that is where I am at. Just saying, I am one who would love to make the switch but the technology has not hit the mainstream. Once it does at a cost I feel comfortable with, I will jump on the LED bandwagon ASAP.

That said, I am still not convinced LED's are going to be efficient enough to switch on that factor alone, which is the reason for this thread. I think this will change in the future as well.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I sure can sympathize with that, Talon.

I wanted a no-compromises fixture for my biggest tank. I knew I was unlikely to be happy with the color from any combination of white LEDs. I could add some red/blue LEDs for color tuning, but then I'd have multicolored shadows. I could eliminate that with a diffuser, but that would negate the efficiency advantages and highly directional light. Or I could use RGBW LEDs, but the price would go through the roof.

In the end I just DIY'ed a T5HO fixture using a dimmable ballast. If I hadn't gone to lengths to make it look like a fine piece of furniture while working around limited woodworking skills, or to hang it from the ceiling using spring tensioners, it wouldn't have even been that expensive.

Should I ever build another DIY fixture for a smaller and less fancy tank though, LEDs will be the prime candidate. Not just because of efficiency, but due to the lower fixture profile.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I think all lighting types have their place given the tank constraints and budget in place. I'm most likely going LEDs on my sump display. I think the Current-USA Freshwater Plus will fit it nicely. Low profile, perfect for a 17" width, controllable, and <$100. That's a task that T5HO wouldn't be very efficient at tackling.


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