# My Dimmable T5HO Hood



## VeeSe (Apr 16, 2011)

So nice. I wish I even had the tiniest inkling of knowledge about how to do DIY lighting.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I think you are right about this being a first. At least I haven't seen this before. And, I'm amazed that you can get the ballasts on Ebay, having never looked for one. This makes T5HO competitive with LED lights at what appears to be a much lower cost. 

I'm moving to an apartment shortly, so I may not have room to work on projects like this, but if I do, I may try this too. Being able to dim the light is such a great feature.


----------



## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Wow...aquariums aside, I didn't know it was possible to dim anything florescent. Your overall light set up is top notch too! Well played sir, well played. :biggrin:


----------



## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I have one question; what is the overall cost?

Very, VERY cool.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Da Plant Man said:


> I have one question; what is the overall cost?


I'd estimate around $300. Maybe more. I didn't really keep a tally.

But understand that at $25, the dimming ballast really added nothing to the cost over a non-dimmable DIY equivalent.

The high price is explained by:

1) Top-notch DD Giesemanns bulbs and Icecap reflectors
2) Solid wood; no plywood, veneer, or 2x4's
3) Various wood finishing consumables
4) Mistakes! I have relatively little woodworking experience :hihi:
5) X10 modules
6) Sunlift spring tensioners

I don't often get enough the time to do DIY projects the way I really like. And since this was intended to be a hood I can use for a long time, on my biggest tank, and regardless of how my tank style and lighting needs may evolve; I decided I should make it something I can also be _proud_ of for a long time. I set no time or monetary restrictions on whatever was needed to make it so.

If I'd had to do it again, went strictly utilitarian, and omitted fancy and high-end options; I could probably do it for near half the cost. And still have a good dimmable fixture.


----------



## darkoon (Nov 11, 2010)

> But they frequently come up on Ebay for much less, since there is little demand


i think this is going to change now, lol
nice DYI, and amazing wood work too. for people who already have a T5 fixture, i wonder if it could be as easy as swapping out the existing ballast and replace with this dimmable one.


----------



## junko (Sep 9, 2011)

DarkCobra, that is beautiful! I can't believe you don't have a lot of woodworking experience!


----------



## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

I'm interested in the Sunlift Spring Tensioners. I saw these the other day on catalinaaquarium.com:

http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=71_78_92&products_id=1462

Are they the same? Where did you get yours (I did a google, couldn't fine them).

Edit, found them here:

http://www.marinedepot.com/Sunlight...nlight_Supply_Inc-SL2915-FILTACMOFTHK-vi.html

Where did you purchase yours?


----------



## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Amazing DIY build. I appreciate that you took a lot of time to detail all of the electric connections. Of course, without the X10 you lose about half of the complexity, which makes it a really nice and easy build.

I'm thinking that I could easily modify my T5HO fixture, which is the Fishneedit 2x24", because it has an external ballast in a metal case. Just replace the ballast and add a control voltage potentiometer, right?

I found a Lutron Eco-T524 ballast on eBay, but I'm uncertain about what control scheme it uses. I can't seem to find the info in their extensive documentation:

http://www.lutron.com/Service-Support/Technical/Pages/Brochures.aspx

Since this is the same model you purchased, can you enlighten me about whether I can just plug in a potentiometer and be ready to go, or do I need to put a small voltage load on it with a regular dimming circuit like you did?


----------



## jccaclimber (Aug 29, 2011)

That's pretty cool. I'll have to look in to that next time I set a tank up.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

The resistors are in series with the LEDs not in parallel. If they were in parallel something terrible would happen most likely. I won't get into details.


----------



## jccaclimber (Aug 29, 2011)

^I've seen people do that. It's really bright for just a brief second, then you let the magic smoke out.


----------



## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Here's a stupid question, if I were to replace the ballast on my t5ho that I bought, could I have dimmable lights? And yes, this would be for my emersed tank, and yes, I do keep the moonlights on at night so I can watch the plants at night.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Storm said:


> I found a Lutron Eco-T524 ballast on eBay, but I'm uncertain about what control scheme it uses.


There are two results currently on Ebay for Eco-T524.

"Universal B224PUNV-C ECO-T524-277-1 Electronic Ballast": Does not bear Lutron's brand name on the casing, but Universal's. Universal's datasheet doesn't say anything about it being a dimming ballast. I'm not sure why they gave a Lutron model number too, which isn't even a valid number. Would not buy.

"LUTRON ECO-T524 T5 24W ELEC. DIMMING BALLAST +ENCLOSURE": Listed as an ECO-T524-120-1 deep in the description. A member of the Eco-10 three-wire dimming family like mine, this is a 120V, 1x 24W T5HO ballast. Great price, if it fits your needs.

Deeper searches can also turn up other finds, an example:

"LUTRON ECO-T5H3 T5 120V ELEC DIMMING BALLAST +ENCLOSURE": An ECO-T5H39-120-1. 1x 39W T5HO, three-wire dimming. Also a great price.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

londonloco said:


> I'm interested in the Sunlift Spring Tensioners. I saw these the other day on catalinaaquarium.com:


Not sure who makes those, but they do appear to be spring tensioners.

The Marinedepot link shows the ones I have, and that's where I bought them.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Salmon McCloud said:


> The resistors are in series with the LEDs not in parallel. If they were in parallel something terrible would happen most likely. I won't get into details.


The LEDs are in parallel, each with a series limiting resistor. But I can see how what I said might be confusing, so I removed "parallel" from the main post. Not needed anyway, this isn't intended to be a LED tutorial.

I've let the magic smoke out of plenty of things, but not on this fixture.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Da Plant Man said:


> Here's a stupid question, if I were to replace the ballast on my t5ho that I bought, could I have dimmable lights?


Would be basically the same as any ballast replacement.

First and foremost, you'd need to make sure the ballast can be made to physically fit. If not, you might mount the ballast on top (ugly). Or mount the ballast elsewhere, and run wires from the ballast to the fixture. Most manufacturers specify the maximum allowable wire length. If you exceed it, there's a small possibility the ballast may not work, but it's more likely the ballast will just emit more radio interference than regulations allow.

Some bulb sockets bridge both pins together internally and some do not. For my ballast at least, the socket must be unbridged. So check that too, and replace the sockets if needed, which may require some mechanical creativeness. In my case, that would probably be velcro. 

And of course add the wall dimmer or potentiometer.


----------



## sns26 (Mar 29, 2010)

Very nice. As Hoppy says, this makes T5HO competitive both in price and dimmability with LEDs, at least if you leave out bulb replacement costs.

In the future, if you are trying to figure out whether your stain/topcoat is going to reveal sanding marks or other blemishes, you can wipe naptha or paint thinner on the wood first. These things (or really any other light solvent) will preferentially soak into scratches or dings in the same way that stain and finish will. But then they evaporate, leaving you free to sand out those problems before you go further.

Like others, I'm curious about the sunlift tensioners. I'd like to use them for my LED rig, but I've heard that the build quality is questionable. I would completely lose my mind if I came home one day to find my DIY fixture in my tank.

One final note: I am obviously biased in favor of LEDs since I have wasted tons of time building an over-complex LED fixture. But I still see some big advantages. First the cost really is lower over the long term because you don't have to replace bulbs. Second, there are a lot of fixture design options because the LEDs and optics are so tiny and because you can put the ballasts anywhere you want. This means that you can build the equivalent of a metal halide pendant or go all the other way to a top-of-tank canopy. Third, I now think they are actually EASIER to build than what you have done. If you use thermal adhesive to anchor the LEDs, the only "difficult" thing is the soldering. And that is easy if you have a >100W soldering gun.

The big advantage of T5HO, as you say, is that it does a better job at color rendering (at least right now). Let's just admit it. And, as you say, changing your colors is pretty easy, even if it ain't cheap.

You get serious DIY points for going your own way though. We've all started downgrading the "wow" factor of LED projects, but this is really something.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

sns26 said:


> Very nice. As Hoppy says, this makes T5HO competitive both in price and dimmability with LEDs, at least if you leave out bulb replacement costs.


I'm hoping that dimming at moderate levels might also extend the bulb life, just as overdriving (remember ODNO?) will shorten it. Too early to tell.



sns26 said:


> In the future, if you are trying to figure out whether your stain/topcoat is going to reveal sanding marks or other blemishes, you can wipe naptha or paint thinner on the wood first. These things (or really any other light solvent) will preferentially soak into scratches or dings in the same way that stain and finish will. But then they evaporate, leaving you free to sand out those problems before you go further.


Great tip! Will definitely remember this for my next project.



sns26 said:


> Like others, I'm curious about the sunlift tensioners. I'd like to use them for my LED rig, but I've heard that the build quality is questionable. I would completely lose my mind if I came home one day to find my DIY fixture in my tank.


At 21lbs. for my hood, I'm actually pushing the Sunlifts just past their 20lb. limit when it's raised for maintenance. They seem to work via a coil spring to cancel part of the weight, and an adjustable friction plate to keep it from moving until a specific amount of force is applied. They've gotten a bit looser with time, requiring two additional adjustments after the initial one, to keep the hood from slowly slipping a few inches after being lifted. Apparently there's a break-in period, and they seem stable now. If there's some other failure mode, I haven't heard of it. Since my hood normally rests on the rim, having it slip when I'm not around isn't a concern. For a permanently suspended hood, I'd recommend shortening the string so that it reaches the hard limit just before reaching the tank.



sns26 said:


> One final note: I am obviously biased in favor of LEDs since I have wasted tons of time building an over-complex LED fixture. But I still see some big advantages. First the cost really is lower over the long term because you don't have to replace bulbs. Second, there are a lot of fixture design options because the LEDs and optics are so tiny and because you can put the ballasts anywhere you want. This means that you can build the equivalent of a metal halide pendant or go all the other way to a top-of-tank canopy. Third, I now think they are actually EASIER to build than what you have done. If you use thermal adhesive to anchor the LEDs, the only "difficult" thing is the soldering. And that is easy if you have a >100W soldering gun.


I agree with all this, and my initial LED fixture design was so complex only because I had some specific (and perhaps unreasonable) expectations that most people won't. I'm considering building a LED fixture for a smaller tank, and I have some interesting ideas brewing for that too.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

That's a beautiful DIY, and your in-depth documentation with excellent pictures was a pleasure to read. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## zergling (May 16, 2007)

Great job! Definitely the way to go if you have the DIY tools, time, skillset, and no inclination to pay the high prices of the dimmable ATI T5HO fixtures.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

DarkCobra said:


> The LEDs are in parallel, each with a series limiting resistor. But I can see how what I said might be confusing, so I removed "parallel" from the main post. Not needed anyway, this isn't intended to be a LED tutorial.
> 
> I've let the magic smoke out of plenty of things, but not on this fixture.


Yeah I'm majoring in electronics engineering so I know some stuff about LEDs lol. This gave me a good idea for my first capstone project coming up here in the spring, hopefully I can make my own dimmable T5HO light fixture from scratch (basically that's the point of the capstone, make something from the ground up.) Definitely a good read. I'll have to buy one of those ballasts and take it apart. Thanks for the idea!

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Salmon McCloud said:


> Yeah I'm majoring in electronics engineering so I know some stuff about LEDs lol. This gave me a good idea for my first capstone project coming up here in the spring, hopefully I can make my own dimmable T5HO light fixture from scratch (basically that's the point of the capstone, make something from the ground up.) Definitely a good read. I'll have to buy one of those ballasts and take it apart. Thanks for the idea!


An EE, cool! Since you mentioned taking apart a ballast, does that mean you'll be building the ballast from scratch too? If so, _wow_. I've poked around in one and got it to drive some things it wasn't supposed to, but in general anything with inductors confounds me.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Yeah dc is easier to understand. AC with capacitors and inductors gets a little confusing. I have had to deal with them for a little bit now so I'll have to refresh my memory, but I'm sure that won't be difficult. The ballasts will be the most difficult part, but very rewarding I'm sure

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Found a couple more photos, that along with build details might be useful to someone building a wooden hood.










All the wooden components, short of the strips that provide mounting for the bulb sockets and sides of the splash shield.

I have a miter saw and circular saw, but not a table saw. So my ability to accurately perform long, straight cuts is limited. As much as possible, I designed the hood around the dimensions of lumber available to me. My hood's an inch or two taller than is actually required for internal components because of that; and although I wanted a small profile, I chose to accept this as a compromise.

The only two cuts I could not eliminate that exceeded the limits of my miter saw were trimming the length of the top piece. These were carefully done with the circular saw, and an aluminum angle clamped to the board as a guide; with scrap pieces used to protect the wood from being marred by the C-clamps. The results were visibly off, especially in the angle of the blade; somehow despite being previously set and verified to be 0°. But it had to do.










Assembly. I've never assembled a box before. There's probably some neat tools made specifically for this purpose. But I don't have or know about such things, so I just improvised with what I had on hand.

First I needed a surface with both sufficient flatness and space. My coffee table was the best I could come up with.

I laid the top piece down. It was slightly warped and didn't lay completely flat. So I weighed it down with a couple of paint cans, and a 20lb. chunk of steel; which I have just because I thought an unusually dense object might come in handy some day. It does, with surprising frequency.

Other pieces were put in place. The front and back were slightly warped too, so I needed to force them into place with a straight edge.

For the straight edge, I first tried some structural 2x4's, but they weren't even close to straight. 1x2's were better, with only a slight curvature over their length.

Then I needed to apply force. I stole the ratcheting straps from my dolly, and experimented with adjusting things. I found that with the 1x2's laid flat rather than up, with their curvature facing so they were farther away from the hood at the ends, the right amount of force just flexed everything into place.

The only remaining problem was the short side pieces. With all the force applied at the bottom, there was a slight gap in the joint at the top. The bar clamp easily solved that. A side story about that clamp. It came with my first tank, a 90G which an acquaintance offered me for free. Upon arrival at my house, I found he'd failed to mention it had a partially blown panel. The bar clamp and a slathering of silicone were the only thing keeping it together and leak-free. I never filled it, and sold it to someone who could repair it. But kept the clamp, thinking it might come in handy. Many years later, it finally did.

Having completed the dry fit, I took everything apart. Taped some wax paper on the coffee table to protect it, and act as a glue release. Placed paper towels on the floor to catch glue drips, since the edges of the hood hung off. Slathered a noobishly excessive amount of Titebond II Dark over all edges, and put it back together. Tightened down on the straps gradually, while nudging (banging) things into place. Glue squeezed out everywhere. I wiped up what I could. Let it dry for a day, glued the side mounting strips into place, and waited another day.

All joints were very tight, my clamping scheme was sufficient to ensure that. But there were still some edges that didn't line up. Especially at the sides, where all my errors seemed to have compounded; including my circular saw cuts. Much rough sanding was required to make things perfectly flush, and remove excess glue.

After that, I did roundover routing of outer edges, a little more rough sanding, and on to finishing.

I learned a lot from this. The most important thing is that you can still get great results even if you're not quite sure what you're doing, don't have the right tools, and don't get everything perfect. I sometimes tend to be a perfectionist, which I had to cast aside for much of this; otherwise, I never would have completed it, and maybe never would have even started.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm thinking I'll make a box out of aluminum, there is plenty of scrap at the girlfriend's parents' house lol.

I was wondering, do they have the dimming ballast for lower wattage bulbs, because I have a 20 Long as my biggest tank for the time being, and 2 39 Watts might be overkill.


----------



## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

This is pretty sick. I remember looking into this two years ago and the prices on ballasts and controllers made it unreasonable. Nice to see there are some less expensive options available. Thanks for sharing and detailing the build. I love T5 lighting, this just makes it even better.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Salmon McCloud said:


> I was wondering, do they have the dimming ballast for lower wattage bulbs, because I have a 20 Long as my biggest tank for the time being, and 2 39 Watts might be overkill.


Yes.

Lutron has various T5HO ballast models that drive from 24W-54W, either one or two bulbs. Also has dimming ballasts for normal T5.

Dimming ballasts for T8, if that will provide sufficient light, were even more common and cheaper back when I last checked into them in January 2010:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/101158-cheap-fluorescent-dimming-ballast.html

In that thread, I got a ballast that would drive from 1-3 bulbs of various types, to drive some things it was never intended for. Including a T5HO 39W at about 75% of normal power, with some internal tweaks. Although I don't recommend cheating on T5HO like this, there's a possibility of overheat and explosion when the bulb wears out. Which can be early. One of my first DD Giesemann bulbs was visibly defective out of the box with one end dimmer than the other, and it got rapidly worse over a month.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

2 things
I still want T5HO lights, and I don't want to ruin them so I would go with the Lutron 2x24watt ballast, but so far I can only find them for over $100

Secondly, I discussed my idea for my capstone project with one of the kids in my classes tonight, He is going to let me use his CNC machine to make an enclosure for it, so I'll probably make it out of acrylic or probably wood. I just think a smoke colored fixture would be sweet lol. Anyway him and I discussed many possibilites, I want to make some sort of microcontroller, or a microprocessor of some kind so I can type in commands to control it. but if that serves to be way too complex I'll just use dials and whatnot. I was also thinking it would be neat to have a 12 hour light cycle where the light progressively gets brighter and slightly before noon, or before the 6 hour mark, it is at its brightest and sticks there for an hour or so and then dims back to off at 12 hours and then Moonlight LEDs kick on.
He brought up the suggestion of getting some light sensor to set up outside so the light adjusts to the brightness that it is outside, which is cool and all but seems a little too much, and I'm sure its expensive too, but it is also a sweet idea. Anyway I was just wondering what you thought about that and could throw in your ideas.
Also sorry If I'm hijacking your thread.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I noticed one of the Ebay auctions I mentioned earlier for a 1x 24W:

"LUTRON ECO-T524 T5 24W ELEC. DIMMING BALLAST +ENCLOSURE"

Is for a single quantity only, but in the description it says that there's more available. $16.88 Buy it Now, and the seller is also taking best offers. So if you don't mind having two ballasts, one for each bulb, chances are you can contact that seller directly and he'll probably deal with you on the side, or start a new auction for quantity two. That would set you up immediately rather than having to wait and watch, and still at a decent price.

A microcontroller would be optional. For interfacing purposes, a "control voltage" type ballast would be easier, since you just control it with PWM through a level shifter or optocoupler. The ballast will have an internal RC filter with a fairly long time constant, typically about one second, that will convert even low frequency PWM to a steady DC.

"Three wire" is a little tougher. For that you'd need to create a microprocessor controlled AC dimmer. I've got a PIC24 on my desk right now which I've been playing with. Eventually I'd like to integrate one into my hood, along with Zigbee RF control or similar.

Now if you instead go with _building_ your ballast from scratch, you will need either a microcontroller or a specialized IC.

The specialized ICs may be hard to get, things of that nature tend not be available to anyone but serious OEMs. But I haven't looked into it directly.

Microprocessor-based reference designs are also an option. But make sure you fairly evaluate your existing skills, and the time needed to learn new ones. You don't want to blow your capstone deadline! Perhaps you could adapt a reference design like this one:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1824&appnote=en011968

This is for a programmed-start, 1x 32W T8 dimming ballast. Given that I have successfully driven T5HO with a T8 dimming ballast, it would probably also work with 1x 24W T5HO. The most critical change would be proper end-of-life detection for safety, which was lacking in my instant-start T8 ballast experiment.

As long as you have a microprocessor controlling either a consumer ballast, or at the heart of a custom ballast, adding a room light sensor is trivial and inexpensive.

Just some ideas that may help you get started.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks man! maybe we should PM about this if you don't want me to hijack your thread, I think all the technical jargon is driving people away from your real piece of artwork here lol.
There has to be a design for a 1x24W dimming ballast or even a 2x24W out there, but I was looking at the schematic that you had a link to and was surprised that I recognized every part of the schematic, minus the ICs, I haven't dealt with those particular ones yet, even though I doubt I ever would be taught.
I'm going to ask my professor today if he knows how to make a ballast and see what I can get from him, the guy has a Ph.D. for god's sake and he seems to be a genius by the way he talks, so I'm sure he knows his stuff. I'll keep you updated with what I come by, and let you know my progress as I go along, seeing as how I know you are interested in this idea. At least it seems like it. I may even be able to market this after the fact, maybe even start making custom light fixtures for people. I can use the money, lol.
Also I notified the selling of those 1x24W lutron ballasts you mentioned and asked if I coiuld make a deal with him about buying 2. We shall see how that goes.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

You can PM me with electronics questions if you'd prefer not to geek the thread out further. 

But do post in thread about any updates with that Ebay seller. That may be useful to others, especially if he has a large number of those ballasts available.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

He or she has two left and its a 5% discount if I buy both plus combined shipping. So I think I'll buy them and make one for the time being and build my own from scratch for my capstone.

Also I was wondering how you wired the leds. I'm guessing their own switch. Pm me about that one.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## jccaclimber (Aug 29, 2011)

If there isn't a strong objection, I'm good with the thread geeking out. I'll probably do this some day in the future and would rather see the common questions somewhere.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Salmon McCloud said:


> He or she has two left and its a 5% discount if I buy both plus combined shipping. So I think I'll buy them and make one for the time being and build my own from scratch for my capstone.


Perfect! Glad that worked out.



Salmon McCloud said:


> Also I was wondering how you wired the leds. I'm guessing their own switch. Pm me about that one.


That question is definitely relevant to my fixture, so I'm answering here. Only "ballast from scratch" questions are probably beyond the scope of what anyone besides yourself will tackle. Even then, some people might even like to know general ballast theory of operation, if just for curiosity's sake.

Originally, I planned to attach a 120VAC SPDT relay to the X10 module that controls AC power to the ballast. This would switch the 12V supply, which is always on, between either the LEDs or the fan.

I thought I had one in my parts bin, but it turns out I didn't. So as a temporary solution, I wired both LEDs and fan to run continuously. Since I've reduced fan RPM, it can't be heard over the cumulative noise of the three tanks I have on that wall, unless you're right next to it. And it turns out that running the LEDs during sunrise/sundown ramps adds a nice transition between colors at the lowest light levels, becoming unnoticeable the rest of the time.

Also, the fan and LEDs don't consume much power. Upon later shopping around for a relay, I checked specs and found that they'd actually consume more power than I'd save.

So I never added the relay. Both LEDs and fan remain permanently on. 

Both should last a long time regardless. The LEDs are underdriven by 25%, at 15ma of their 20ma rating. And a failed fan can easily be relubricated with common motor oil. I've done that to dozens of fans with nearly 100% success. It's not just economical or environmentally friendly, the new lube typically lasts much longer than the original factory lube. Between work and home I have a lot of equipment and fans to maintain, and this lightens the load.

When I eventually add microprocessor control, since an MCU consumes a trivial amount of power for additional functions, I'll add PWM control for the LEDs; and for the fan based on internal temperature.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

jccaclimber said:


> If there isn't a strong objection, I'm good with the thread geeking out. I'll probably do this some day in the future and would rather see the common questions somewhere.


Noted. No objections to side topics as long as they're DIY related and educational. Does your interest extend to building ballasts from scratch, or just DIY fixtures?


----------



## jccaclimber (Aug 29, 2011)

Both (see signature). On the subject of signatures, I too am growing SOS.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Will the MCU replace your X10 modules? I have no idea what X10 modules are lol. so a link or something would help. I like the ideas you're coming up with. 

I'm pretty sure you know a hell of a lot more about the inner workings of electronics than I do. 

I talked to my professor today about my capstone idea and he loved it, but he had no idea how ballasts actually work, so that was a little upsetting.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Alrighty, no PMs then. Let's geek out freely. :hihi:



Salmon McCloud said:


> Will the MCU replace your X10 modules? I have no idea what X10 modules are lol. so a link or something would help. I like the ideas you're coming up with.


X10 is the oldest home automation system. It primarily uses signals sent over the AC wiring in a house, so no additional wiring is necessary. You plug a "module" into the wall, and plug something into the module. The module acts as a switch that can be controlled by a remote plugged in elsewhere; in my case, that's my computer. It handles all scheduling for six aquariums and a few other household items like lamps, totaling two dozen modules. I also have wireless remotes in each room. The computer receives those signals, translates, and relays them to the modules.

In addition to room lamps, I can push a button on a remote to "feed fish", which turns all tank lights on, and all filters/aerators off, for ten minutes; returning to the normal schedule when complete. If I want to drift off to sleep while watching my tanks, there's a "sleep" button on the remote by my nightstand, which keeps the lights on for the next thirty minutes regardless of schedule.

More details on X10 at Wikipedia. I don't recommend the official X10 website as a source of information, it will hurt your eyes. :hihi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard)

X10 is 30-something years old. Compared to modern alternatives, it's quite inexpensive, but also limited. Modules can receive, but can't communicate back. If there's a lot of noise on the power lines, commands may be dropped. That happens occasionally for me on certain tanks, and I've acceptably worked around it by automatically sending commands repeatedly when there's a change of state, and at regular intervals afterwards. Still, it would be better if modules can immediately acknowledge when they receive a command. Newer systems other than X10 can do this, but they're expensive; and even they don't allow you to connect remote sensors, or other unusual things which I would be inclined to do.

So yes, the MCUs with wireless Zigbee mesh networking are intended to replace part of my X10 system. And allow me to connect anything I please to my home automation system.



Salmon McCloud said:


> I talked to my professor today about my capstone idea and he loved it, but he had no idea how ballasts actually work, so that was a little upsetting.


Not surprising. Ballasts are essentially fancy switching power supplies. A simple switching buck/boost converter is easily understood, but a ballast is more similar to a computer power supply. Few people know how to design them, fewer know how to do it well, and probably fewer still know about ballast design in particular. I understand much of the basic principles, but would be in deep water if I had to build one from scratch. While I could probably pull it off with some difficulty, it wouldn't necessarily be very efficient or maximize lamp life. But that may be all that's needed to highly impress a professor.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

I like the whole microcontroller idea, although I really don't want to connect a whole bunch of devices to one thing, I'm just going with aquarium stuff.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

The ballasts are on their way. Cost me slightly over 50, but this project should be fun. I plan on taking one apart to see exactly how it works I suppose. A little reverse engineering lol. Product was shipped before I even made payment which was tempting not to pay for at all lol, but I would hate to be that guy. Once I build my first light with the ballasts I bought I'll build another fixture straight from scratch. At least that the plan. Any suggestions on leds, colors, power and what not? Also I'm assuming the fan is a matter of opinion as far as brand goes, but what would be more reliable? I've had pc fans burn out before

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

A little over $50 is a still a good deal on a set of dimming ballasts, IMO.

I never tried to open the Lutron. On the T8 dimming ballasts, I had to drill partially through the sheet metal where the mounting holes were, as the two sheet metal layers were crimped together there. Using a larger drill bit, I broke the connections without significantly altering the hole diameter.

For the moonlights, I used blue 25° T1-3/4 LEDs. Bought 100x of them a while back on Ebay cheaply direct from China to stock my parts box, and still had a bunch left after other projects; so I figured I'd put what I had to use. They're rated at 20ma, and I drive them at 15ma to extend life, since fully plastic casings don't dissipate heat well. Individually, they don't provide much light. I used 8 on my "moonlight ruler", and it's still dim. The fish look like shadowy figures darting in and out of the beams, which is an interesting effect. But it doesn't really provide for effective viewing, so I may add additional LEDs in the future.

If I'd made a separate LED purchase, I might have gone with 1/4W LEDs with a wider angle, to reduce the number of LEDs. Other colors, like a bit of white, could be added too. But don't use UV LEDs. They cause particles in the water to fluoresce, making the beams green; which doesn't look good in my opinion.

As for the fan, I have a collection of them salvaged from old computers. Again I used what I had, and relubed it before installing so I don't have to worry about failures later. The chrome fan guard was also in my salvage collection. Added some rubber washers on either side of the wood to damp vibrations. If I'd ordered a fan separately, a Nexus would have been my top choice. I use these to replace loud fans in my home PCs, and they're quiet and reliable. I'm sure there are other good ones out there too.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

How about these LEDs? eb item# 120803062151 or 120783223209

Also I'll most likely get that fan, Quiet is the most important to me really.

I'll see if I can find a chrome fan guard, that looks sweet on your fixture.
I was thinking these as far as reflectors http://www.amazon.com/AquaticLife-R...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1320950690&sr=1-2 but I'd rather have something cheaper

I was probably going to go wood for this first one, but the one for class may be the acrylic design with CNC machine. That said, what wood should I use? and as far as waterproofing the wood, what should I use for that?

And where do I get the connections for the bulbs themselves?
Lol lots of questions here.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Also About sockets (if thats what you would call them) would this one work, or do you know one that would be better to use?
http://www.horticulturesource.com/sunlight-supply-t5-ho-sockets-shunted-p410/


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Salmon McCloud said:


> How about these LEDs? eb item# 120803062151 or 120783223209


Those are similar to what I used, only difference are the lens angles.



Salmon McCloud said:


> I was thinking these as far as reflectors http://www.amazon.com/AquaticLife-R...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1320950690&sr=1-2 but I'd rather have something cheaper


Cheaper:

http://www.hellolights.com/search.aspx?find=reflectors&log=false&category=97



Salmon McCloud said:


> I was probably going to go wood for this first one, but the one for class may be the acrylic design with CNC machine. That said, what wood should I use?


Use any wood you like, it's mostly an aesthetic choice. Pine is cheapest but is soft and easily marred. If I'd used paint, which can be touched up, pine would have been an option. But since I was putting on a fine glossy finish, I immediately disqualified pine, and went for birch instead.



Salmon McCloud said:


> and as far as waterproofing the wood, what should I use for that?


Exterior sealed as described in the first post. Interior is not sealed. Not completely sure if that was the right choice. But I figure water can't get in due to the splash shield, and moist air isn't drawn in from the tank due to both shield and flow pattern. If the exterior sealant is breached and moisture gets into the wood, it should escape more easily through the unsealed interior. And since I was using self-adhesive velcro for mountings, adding an interior sealant might weaken the bond.



Salmon McCloud said:


> And where do I get the connections for the bulbs themselves?


Got mine here:

http://www.aquacave.com/t5-socket-non-shuntedbr-1-pc-2934.html

You must use non-shunted sockets for the Lutrons. *Do not use shunted* as these connect both pins together internally; which will short out the ballast! I believe this is a requirement for any T5HO dimming ballast, given how they work.

Aside from that, some others are waterproof, which may be useful if you don't have a splash shield. And different mounting options. I would have gone with something different if I'd screw-mounted, but it was irrelevant since I used a velcro mounting strip.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

awesome, I made a lower offer on the leds to see if I can get them for cheaper.
I ordered the "sockets" if thats what you call them, ordered 10 just in case.
I'll most likely order that fan and a chrome guard as well.

Also I sat a stared at your picture of the inside and the wires running everywhere, but I can't really follow it at all lol. Can I have close ups or something of that sort? I'm thoroughly confused as far as those adapters and what not in there. also where did you get your pc power cord male adapter thing?


----------



## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

so this is totally cool and all but we absolutely need full, medium, and low light pictures to go with this !!!!!!!!! i wanna see it please


----------



## Optix (May 31, 2011)

>ceiling mount to be right on top of tank
>ISHYDDT

cool project bro


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Salmon McCloud said:


> Also I sat a stared at your picture of the inside and the wires running everywhere, but I can't really follow it at all lol. Can I have close ups or something of that sort? I'm thoroughly confused as far as those adapters and what not in there.


Closeup, click to enlarge:










I used no solder joints or wire nuts for wiring. If I had to join any two wires, that was done at the terminal block. The terminal block columns:

#1: Neutral (White)
#2: Ground (Green)
#3: Hot (Black)
#4: Dimmed Hot (Orange)
#5: Switched Neutral (White)
#6: Switched Hot (Black)

The orange color coding at wire ends for #4 has faded to white. I used an orange highlighter on white heat shrink, should have used a Sharpie instead. The connector on the Lutron is orange as it should be.

The top X10 module switches AC to the ballast. Inputs #1 and #3, outputs #5 and #6.

The bottom X10 module provides dimmed hot to the ballast. Inputs #1 and #3, output #4. You can't see it, but the neutral output is clipped and taped over, and connects to nothing. It isn't needed.

The little circuit board beneath the terminal is resistors strung together to make the value I needed for the parallel load to make the dimmer work. Connects between #1 and #4. Not color coded.

Unswitched AC from #1 and #3 also run to the 12V adapter. All other high voltage connections are outputs from the ballast to the bulbs, wired as per the ballast's wiring diagram.



Salmon McCloud said:


> also where did you get your pc power cord male adapter thing?


Salvaged for free from an old computer power supply, like the cord and chrome fan guard. Also available at various electronic shops, an example:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ACS-48/IEC-POWER-RECEPTACLE/1.html


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> so this is totally cool and all but we absolutely need full, medium, and low light pictures to go with this !!!!!!!!! i wanna see it please


I'd made a short video of a quick dimming cycle from 100% to 10% and back, but the camera's auto exposure butchered it. Will try again in the next day or two.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyK0hFK_SKQ

Sorry for the poor quality, my camera fights me on this one. Included the 10G high light on the left as both fixed point exposure reference for the camera, and as a brightness reference for you.

I did a slow dim from 100% down to 10%, manually via X10 remote. Followed by off. Then back on at 10%, and up to 100% again (faster, and a bit unevenly).


----------



## accordztech (Dec 6, 2004)

Hoppy said:


> I think you are right about this being a first. At least I haven't seen this before. And, I'm amazed that you can get the ballasts on Ebay, having never looked for one. This makes T5HO competitive with LED lights at what appears to be a much lower cost.
> 
> I'm moving to an apartment shortly, so I may not have room to work on projects like this, but if I do, I may try this too. Being able to dim the light is such a great feature.


If you ever need a place to work at, my house is avalible to you. I have some nice tools, good work areas and quite a few electronic tools (since I used to do alarms and stereo installs).


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

accordztech said:


> If you ever need a place to work at, my house is avalible to you. I have some nice tools, good work areas and quite a few electronic tools (since I used to do alarms and stereo installs).


Thank you! That's a great offer. But, I suspect I will just get interested in things I do have room for. And, I might be able to use my "WorkMate" on the patio for some little jobs. Right now I have my tool collection reduced to where two large tool boxes hold them all. As long as I have a good place to store the boxes I'm good to go.


----------



## accordztech (Dec 6, 2004)

Hoppy said:


> Thank you! That's a great offer. But, I suspect I will just get interested in things I do have room for. And, I might be able to use my "WorkMate" on the patio for some little jobs. Right now I have my tool collection reduced to where two large tool boxes hold them all. As long as I have a good place to store the boxes I'm good to go.


LOL if you are interested and DONT have room you can leave it at my house :hihi:. The offer will always be here.

sorry for threadjacking =)


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

DarkCobra said:


> Video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyK0hFK_SKQ
> 
> ...


I like it man, looks great!

So does the x10 dial back the voltage that goes to the dimmer or does it lower the frequency?


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

accordztech said:


> sorry for threadjacking =)


No problem, very cool of you to offer workspace. roud:



Salmon McCloud said:


> So does the x10 dial back the voltage that goes to the dimmer or does it lower the frequency?


Technically, it does neither. The frequency remains the same. And at >=50% power, the peak AC voltage still reaches 170V (yes, that's typical peak for 120VAC).

The X10 module acts identically to a standard AC wall dimmer. These work by using a TRIAC to let through only part of each AC sinewave. By doing so, it changes the _average_ power. Try looking up "phase angle control dimming" for some examples with pictures (or even videos) of the output waveform.

Remember though, a dimming ballast is always powered by full, undimmed AC. It's only the control signal that's altered, and the ballast draws essentially no power from that input. That's why the parallel load is needed, a TRIAC will shut off and let _nothing_ through if the load drops beneath a critical current (typically about 10ma).


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

I will post my pictures of my ballasts when I get home, when i can plug my laptop in.
I had a question about how many LEDs to add. I want to have 3 strips, one on back, middle, and front, but I don't know how many I want for brightness. Its going on a 20 Long, dimensions are 30 in by 12 inch, and I don't know how big I'll make the light.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Salmon McCloud said:


> I will post my pictures of my ballasts when I get home, when i can plug my laptop in.
> I had a question about how many LEDs to add. I want to have 3 strips, one on back, middle, and front, but I don't know how many I want for brightness. Its going on a 20 Long, dimensions are 30 in by 12 inch, and I don't know how big I'll make the light.


Any progress with the pics?

No clue on the amount of LEDs for a moonlight. There are ways to figure out light intensity at the substrate for a given amount of LEDs. But I've never actually seen a recommendation for what intensity constitutes a decent moonlight.


----------



## jccaclimber (Aug 29, 2011)

^Sounds like a good excuse to walk out into the country with a light meter on a clear night. I don't know where I saw them, but there are standards for brightness at night published out there somewhere. I'd occasionally see them at my last job.


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm having trouble with my internet so no progress on the pics. Sorry, tomorrow I'm going to a friends place, I will take my laptop over there. Also. I'm going to take the ballast under a magnifying glass see if I can get some numbers on the ICs

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## Salmon McCloud (Aug 13, 2011)

Okay this is what I got... pictures taken by camera on my phone lol

These are the Lutron ECO-T524-120-1

ballasts side by side.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/salmonmccloud/IMAG0246.jpg

ballast opened up
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/salmonmccloud/IMAG0247.jpg

The only ICs I could read were the 4862 and the IR2111
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/419333/INFINEON/TDA4862.html
http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/I/R/2/1/IR2111.shtml

The others on the vertical board in the middle were hard to read without moving the capacitors. I was able to read one. the 2842 IC.
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/296046/KR/2842.html

and the LM224 (2 of these)
http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/L/M/2/2/LM224.shtml

The other 2 have a 239 and EZ DL 633, but I can't find anything on these.

And thats all I have so far.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Interesting. More complex than I expected.

A PFC IC, like the TDA4862 or similar, was expected.

The 2842 isn't the bandpass filter you linked. It's almost certainly a current-mode PWM controller. This is a common chip in various power supplies. A bit surprising to see it as the heart of this ballast, instead of a more specialized IC.

The IR2111 is a half-bridge driver, which would be needed to interface a 2842 to the output MOSFETs.

And finally, eight op-amps in the 2x LM224's. The remaining unidentified chips may just play minor roles.

Thanks for the info. I was curious.


----------



## Aquaticus (Jan 7, 2013)

So these ballasts are really cheap on eBay now, but I am struggling with how to control the dimmer. I like the idea of X10, but it's just another thing to get into. My soldering iron hasn't seen much action since college, but it would be cool to have a microcomputer controller that you could set and walk away from, since once you set the program, you probably aren't going to be making changes very often. I'm sort of surprised that someone hasn't done it already, but I haven't been able to find anything yet.

The ballasts are cheap enough (at least the two 39w ones), that I'll probably order a couple just to have around. I can always run it as a normal ballast until I find some time to figure out a way to get the dimmer function that I want, be it X10 or another solution.


----------



## Aquaticus (Jan 7, 2013)

What is the distance between your bulbs?

Also, did you use 1x6 stock? Why?

Thanks!


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Super easy to connect and dim these Lutron ECO-series ballasts, like the one I used and the one you PM'ed me about on Ebay. You use only the set of three terminals, colored white-orange-black on the left side.

Connect white to the neutral line of the AC plug. Connect black to the hot line of the AC plug. You can install a DPDT switch between the AC plug and these two terminals, if you want the fixture to have its own on/off switch; but as most people will be running off a timer, it isn't necessary.

Connect a standard wall dimmer between hot and the orange terminal. Connect a suitable resistor (as described in the original post), or even one of those little plug-in incandescent nightlights, between orange and neutral. Apart from wiring up the bulb sockets (make sure you get unbridged sockets), for which there's a handy diagram right on the ballast, you're done.

Note that turning off the dimmer won't completely turn off the ballast, only bring it down to 10%. You have to cut the power to the black terminal for complete turn off.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Aquaticus said:


> What is the distance between your bulbs?


Velcro adjustable, currently at about 6".



Aquaticus said:


> Also, did you use 1x6 stock? Why?


I think it was 1x6 for the sides, and 1x10 for the top.

I wanted the exterior to be as clean, seamless, and simple as possible, with the only exception being the finish. No exposed plywood edges, or veneers to cover them up. No visible hardware or fasteners except on the top. Rounded edges. And I have limited skills and tools. Solid wood seemed the easiest choice. It's a bit heavy, but suspended by the spring tensioners, it's almost weightless above the tank.

You can use anything you want. This isn't meant to be a woodworking tutorial, those details really only serve as an example to show that even a mostly clueless person can make something nice.


----------



## Aquaticus (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks! I love the way it looks, but I was wondering if 1x4s would be too thin? 3.5" inches should fit the bulb, reflector, and ballast fine, I would think. Thoughts?


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Yes, 3.5" is room enough.

But if you join the top and sides as I did, you lose another 0.75", so only 2.75" remains. A recessed splash guard shaves off a little more space. Not mounting the ballast directly on the wood so the back of the case can get airflow, a little more space if the ballast doesn't fit between the reflectors. And so on. If you plan out everything carefully, you can probably make it work.

Being the first time I did this, I didn't entirely trust my plan. I also thought I might add a third bulb and another ballast in the future, if I wanted to experiment with high intensity bursts; though that never happened. And should something happen like the ballast fails or reflectors corrode, the replacements might be larger. So I just opted for the 1x6, and no worries about space at all.


----------



## SaltspringTropicals (Feb 11, 2014)

Really great looking fixture! I just wanted to pick your brain regarding the x10 equipment. The wiring in of the on/off module looks pretty straightforward, it's the dimmer module I am not in the clear about. I'm seeing on the x10 website that they have an inline dimmable receiver module: 
http://www.x10.com/x10-pro/modules/lamp-modules/xpdf-inline-dimmable-receiver-module.html
Would this module work as well as the lamp dimmer module you used? I'm not really clear on the specific wiring of the dimmer to the ballast, is it just a matter of connecting the blue signal wire on the dimmer to the orange control wire on the ballast, with a load resistor/night light connected in parallel on this wire? And then connecting the black from the dimmer to my (switched) hot line, white from the dimmer to neutral? 
If that module wouldnt work, could you tell me which model of dimmer module you used for your original setup?

Thank you


----------

