# No tech tank



## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

25G. Unheated. Unfiltered. Eledoa Crispa and Duckweed taken from the pond.

Will probably change to a daylight spectrum bulb soon enough.

Dirt. Gravel. Wood. Done.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Is this just to grow plants?


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

No.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*No Tech Tank*

Hello Paul...

Nice idea. Low maintenance. The light is heating the water, and the plants are filtering it. You have natural CO2 injection from the surrounding air. Actually, it's pretty high tech.

You will need to replace the water that's lost to evaporation too.

B


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## Silmarwen (Sep 21, 2012)

I would like to see how this turns out, I hope you keep us posted as time goes on! What fauna are you thinking?


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

BBradbury said:


> Hello Paul...
> 
> Nice idea. Low maintenance. The light is heating the water, and the plants are filtering it. You have natural CO2 injection from the surrounding air. Actually, it's pretty high tech.
> 
> ...


Low wattage tank?


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Silmarwen said:


> I would like to see how this turns out, I hope you keep us posted as time goes on! What fauna are you thinking?


I can't decide/Still researching.

WCMM would be perfect but I think they'd prefer some water movement.

Zebra Danios I think would prefer more swimming space.

Bloodfin Tetras? Gold Barbs maybe? Or I could just have RCS.


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## Silmarwen (Sep 21, 2012)

Zebra danios would defiantly prefer some more swim space, but gold barbs might work well. I haven't kept them myself. And shrimp are always an fun option! Good luck deciding


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## caoder (Nov 18, 2011)

try some minnows from your local pond  since most seems to be from there anyways.


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## NeoCaesar (Nov 25, 2012)

Paul. Is that an 18X10X10? I have the exact same tank sitting with dirt soaking in it right now as my first foray into planted. Would be interested to know how you get on.


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## AVN (Oct 3, 2012)

Ah, the Walstad method, giant-sized.

I say you should just go shrimp, either that or solitary fish, like a Betta. With 25g and no mechanical filtration you have limited options for stocking. Unless you maintain diligence in water changes and have nitrogen-hogging plants, you wouldn't be able to keep anything larger than a small school in there at optimal parameters. Of course you can always get away with letting things slide, as fish are highly adaptable... I wouldn't recommend it though.

Shoot for small bioload stock, and overkill the waste with fast growing plants, what you have now is not enough to filter a 25g for stock. You have Duckweed, but Ricca looks nicer and isn't a huge PITA when it comes to rescaping your tank or removing it entirely.

Many of the mosses are great for this kind of tank, they grow fast (under higher PAR), filter pretty well, and are pretty nice looking. Taiwan, Java, Xmas, are all good fast growing mosses.

I like the glowing tetras for set ups like this, my go to is the Cardinal, you can easily keep a school of 10-15 in there with no problems. CPD are always a nice choice, but that depends on what kind of fish you want. 

I would go with loaches or other bottom dwelling fish that don't require a lot of water movement or light.

But before anything, get more plants in there! It is not densely planted enough for stock!


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Any updates with this tank?


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

I'd recommend pothos vine, if you REALLY want a good fast growing and nitrogen using plant. I have that on all my tanks and it's great, as long as you like the look.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

NeoCaesar said:


> Paul. Is that an 18X10X10? I have the exact same tank sitting with dirt soaking in it right now as my first foray into planted. Would be interested to know how you get on.


Nope, bit bigger. 30 x 15 x 12.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

This is my 2nd Walstad in fact, definitely need more plants I know. Put some L. Repens and H.Polysperma in behind the wood, only tiny cuttings so far but they always grow super fast for me. Other than that the only thing that's changed is some massive duckweed growth, it's close to covering 2/3 of the tank now.

I know, slow progress!

Not sure about adding pothos, may add some emersed plants once it develops a little. It's a north facing window so maybe I'll even wait until the summer so they can benefit from the natural light.


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## Coldnorthtoy (Mar 26, 2012)

WCMM are awesome - such beautiful little fish.

You might consider using a sponge filter to create some water movement - I do this in my 5.5 gallon Ghost Shrimp tank, just to keep things from getting stagnant, but it does generate a moderately decent flow.

You might also consider using a Marina Slim 10 just to create some flow as well - they are beautifully silent, self-priming, include a nice reticulated foam intake filter and are dirt-cheap (~$20 at Petsmart here in Canada). That's what's running on my Walstad 5.5 gallon WCMM tank. It just has a piece of foam in the filter chamber, but no filter material - and quite frankly, I'd be better off with nothing in there at all, since it's just for flow, basically.


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## gabysapha (Oct 26, 2011)

I second a sponge filter. It's such a simple, inexpensive, quiet item that will make the tank that much better. With a sponge filter some longfin white clouds would look very pretty. I have a very similar set up.

Now if that tank were in a window with more light, then you'd have lots more options for plants. I would consider moving the tank, but I know what it's like having limited sunny-window space.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*A Bit Larger Maintenance Free Tank*



PaulG said:


> This is my 2nd Walstad in fact, definitely need more plants I know. Put some L. Repens and H.Polysperma in behind the wood, only tiny cuttings so far but they always grow super fast for me. Other than that the only thing that's changed is some massive duckweed growth, it's close to covering 2/3 of the tank now.
> 
> I know, slow progress!
> 
> Not sure about adding pothos, may add some emersed plants once it develops a little. It's a north facing window so maybe I'll even wait until the summer so they can benefit from the natural light.


Hello Paul...

If you want to consider emersed plants, Pothos is average at best. Chinese Evergreen will filter the water much better, but the root ball will need to be aerated to ensure the roots get the nutrients from the water, so the plants grows and keeps the water pure for any fish you may want to add. Attached is a pic of one of my no water change tanks. I do have to replace the water lost to evaportation.

Good luck and above all, have fun.

B


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## gabysapha (Oct 26, 2011)

Actually, I'm going to do a 10g no tech with WCMMs. Your tank got me inspired.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Any updates?


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

The bulb blew if that counts! :icon_eek:

Will get a replacement tomorrow and also going to add another desk lamp to cover the right side, there's just no growth that end.


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## drewsuf82 (May 27, 2012)

This thread will be great, I look forward to following it


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Ok so I have an idea. Instead of emersed plants in planters how about some Echinodorus radicans in the substrate and allowed to grow right up through the surface? Tank is 15 inch deep and they can supposedly hit 30inch or so. Will this species be able to tolerate around 17c? That's the lowest temp I've recorded in this tank.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Thinking of just keeping a single male paradise fish, seems perfect for my set up but one problem, the open top would be an issue. Would dropping the water level 2 inches be ok?

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/macropodus-opercularis/


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## QQQUUUUAADDD (Feb 26, 2012)

I would think a paradise would prefer a higher temperature.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

QQQUUUUAADDD said:


> I would think a paradise would prefer a higher temperature.


Above link suggests they'll be fine?


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## QQQUUUUAADDD (Feb 26, 2012)

I guess I'm wrong then. It would be a great addition.


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## ony (Apr 1, 2011)

A paradise fish would be great in there and they have huge personalities. They do jump and quite high, I often hear a splash when one gets startled so definitely lower the water level a few inches if you can't cover the tank it any way. If you could get some sort of mesh to act as an anti jump barrier it would be a good idea.


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## gabysapha (Oct 26, 2011)

ony said:


> A paradise fish would be great in there and they have huge personalities. They do jump and quite high, I often hear a splash when one gets startled so definitely lower the water level a few inches if you can't cover the tank it any way. If you could get some sort of mesh to act as an anti jump barrier it would be a good idea.


I second that. They truly are jumpers. I see no sense in keeping fish I worry will go on suicide missions.

Mine disappeared one day. I found her a few days later when my pet rabbit found him under the sofa!

Will adding a top complicate your plans for your tank?


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## JoeGREEEN (Jun 28, 2011)

you said unheated....

I would go with a durable school fish that prefers cooler temps like:

*White Cloud Mountain Minnow* - Tanichthys alboneubes they would look great in your tank.

or like said before, you could try local minnows.

keep us posted


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Don't fancy adding a cover, paradise fish are out!

WCMM I would love but I don't think they'd do well without water movement, I'm determined to do this without any tech aside from the lights.

I've removed all the Elodea. Wasn't feeling it at all, it's now just completely covered in duckweed with a few stems slowly emerging from behind the driftwood. I have some new plant ideas I'm excited about trying out but won't be much progress until after Xmas I'd imagine, too many presents to buy and blah blah blah.

Lots of life in the tank, few pond snails and random invertebrates.

Sorry for the slow progress it's just how I roll :fish1:


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## gabysapha (Oct 26, 2011)

PaulG said:


> Lots of life in the tank, few pond snails and random invertebrates.


Have you considered making it a shrimp tank? Red cherry shrimp will breed at that temperature and do not need a filter. They're very tough little guys and will look very nice. They're so entertaining! I've done set ups like that before with 5g tanks to hold plant clippings.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

gabysapha said:


> Have you considered making it a shrimp tank? Red cherry shrimp will breed at that temperature and do not need a filter. They're very tough little guys and will look very nice. They're so entertaining! I've done set ups like that before with 5g tanks to hold plant clippings.


Yep I've been thinking about it, only thing putting me off is that I have a small 1ft cube currently without livestock and was planning on adding cherry shrimp to that, don't really want two tanks with just shrimp.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)




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## caoder (Nov 18, 2011)

i'd be interested in seeing how well the duckweed does as a filter, I know i neglected a tank with H. Polysperma in it and it wiped everything else out and made a tank full of it within weeks. You can try some smaller rainbowfish. Like the gertrudae or furcata.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/oryzias-latipes/

Think I have a contender.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

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caoder said:


> i'd be interested in seeing how well the duckweed does as a filter, I know i neglected a tank with H. Polysperma in it and it wiped everything else out and made a tank full of it within weeks. You can try some smaller rainbowfish. Like the gertrudae or furcata.


Beautiful fish, minimum temps seem to be 21c which may just be pushing it a little? Would be fine for most of the year but atm it's a little colder.


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## caoder (Nov 18, 2011)

well i know my local lfs carries bitterlings for the people who want something else with their goldfishes, they don't get big, just not very colorful.


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

BBradbury said:


> Hello Paul...
> 
> If you want to consider emersed plants, Pothos is average at best. Chinese Evergreen will filter the water much better, but the root ball will need to be aerated to ensure the roots get the nutrients from the water, so the plants grows and keeps the water pure for any fish you may want to add. Attached is a pic of one of my no water change tanks. I do have to replace the water lost to evaportation.
> 
> ...


I was so excited about this because I'm dying to try this with my tanks - and yours looks so good, but turns out the Chinese Evergreen isn't suitable for me because I have cats. I just wanted to post this in case people have pets that can get to the plants...guess I'm on a search for non-toxic to cats plants...
Chinese Evergreen
Scientific Name:
Aglaonema modestrum
Family:
Araceae
Toxicity:
Toxic to Horses, Toxic to Cats, Toxic to Dogs
Toxic Principles:
Insoluble calcium oxalates
Clinical Signs:
Oral irritation, intense burning and irritation of mouth tongue and lips, excessive drooling, vomiting, difficulty swallowing


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

Someone on TPT has a no tech tank like this filled with Chinese evergreen and in his thread he said his cats don't mess with it.... I'll have to look for his thread.


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## aokashi (Jun 12, 2012)

I've done a low tech 1 gallon before and stocked about 7 fish in there with no casualties. There was barely any substrate either. it was however, stuffed full of lowlight plants.


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Unfortunately, my two cats get into everything. I have all my plants up very, very high lol. Not so pretty. My most adventurous cat tried to eat a cactus as well - spines & all. I've been thinking about simply using crypts, swords, etc both in and above the tank - but I can't find toxicity reports for animals on crypts. I was thinking about trailing pennywort up extended driftwood too since I use it as a floater in my tanks.

Here is more detailed info on oxalates, you can understand why I don't want to take a chance. If age means anything, my cats are 13 and might not handle things as well as they did when young;
To get a bit technical, these plants contain cells known as idioblasts. Idioblasts contain raphides, which are slender, spearlike parts of calcium oxalate crystals. Raphides are sharp and needle-shaped, and are packed in a gelatinous substance. When the tip of the idioblast is broken, sap from the plant—or saliva from an animal—enters the cell, causing the gelatin to swell. The swelling action forces the raphides to shoot from the cell, kind of like a gun discharging a bullet. The calcium oxalate crystals penetrate an animal’s oral mucosa, tongue, and throat, causing damage. The cells may continue to expel crystals for a significant amount of time, even after a piece of plant material is swallowed. As this is happening, proteolytic enzymes stimulate the release of kinins and histamines by the body. The rapid inflammatory response from the release of these substances aggravates the damage caused by the crystals. Chewing, bruising, tearing, or otherwise damaging the plant is necessary to produce these effects.


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

Don't worry, if I had cats I probably wouldn't risk it either, I have creeping fig in and above my tank, and also pothos, and they seem to do well. (Not sure on toxicity though) but those are very adventurous cats!


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

lol - the one that tried to eat the cactus was found as a 4 week old kitten thrown into a big dumpster. I got her when she was 7 weeks but she was very feral for awhile. Now I think she's a food hoarder because of it, and she tries to eat everything - haha

This thread is giving me great ideas, though :icon_smil

Here is a link I found for common houseplants - now I'll shut up about pet toxicity! http://www.cat-world.com.au/plants-a-other-chemicals-toxic


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Got a surprise, a friend has given me a piece of driftwood with a fairly substantial Anubias barteri attached. Also, 2 Amano shrimp which have gone in the 12inch cube :icon_cool


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## gabysapha (Oct 26, 2011)

Your thread inspired me to do my own low tech 10g. I have longfin white clouds in there with some cherry shrimp. I put some stiff wire mesh on top and cut out holes to insert my houseplants I got on sale. I use a simple sponge filter. 

Things are growing well in the light it gets from a north facing window and the light from my desk lamp. 

I used pothos, begonia, anthurium (see the flower?), dumb cane (beware of the sap, my skin reacted badly to it), two Dracenas, purple waffle plant that lost its purpleness, and pilea.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Any updated pics of the tank?


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## Seedreemer (Sep 28, 2008)

Wow! You say there's a tank and some fish under all that plant life, huh?? :red_mouth Awesome. 







gabysapha said:


> Your thread inspired me to do my own low tech 10g. I have longfin white clouds in there with some cherry shrimp. I put some stiff wire mesh on top and cut out holes to insert my houseplants I got on sale. I use a simple sponge filter.
> 
> Things are growing well in the light it gets from a north facing window and the light from my desk lamp.
> 
> I used pothos, begonia, anthurium (see the flower?), dumb cane (beware of the sap, my skin reacted badly to it), two Dracenas, purple waffle plant that lost its purpleness, and pilea.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Now thinking of taking my planted HOB from the cube and sticking it on this tank along with all the plants. I really hate that tank and fancy turning it into a carnivorous plant/orchid terrarium:icon_neut


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## drewsuf82 (May 27, 2012)

gabysapha said:


> Your thread inspired me to do my own low tech 10g. I have longfin white clouds in there with some cherry shrimp. I put some stiff wire mesh on top and cut out holes to insert my houseplants I got on sale. I use a simple sponge filter.
> 
> Things are growing well in the light it gets from a north facing window and the light from my desk lamp.
> 
> I used pothos, begonia, anthurium (see the flower?), dumb cane (beware of the sap, my skin reacted badly to it), two Dracenas, purple waffle plant that lost its purpleness, and pilea.


Wow there's water underneath all that right? :biggrin:


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

I stopped working on this tank as I was due to move house and well, now I have!

So here's where I'm at:

Still more planting needed both in and out of water. It's also a little dark as it's 8pm here.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

It's just too bright where it is atm. Constant algae. Also, all the emersed plants lean towards the window so I have to keep spinning them round.

Considering moving it under lights. Shame :icon_frow


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## Eglinlotus (Jul 2, 2013)

get some siamese algae eaters I got 4 of them when I had an algae problem in my 55 and boy did those little guys clean up every last plant.....so did the 10 oto cats that I bought too. Looks good man I like the drift wood you got in there. It would look good covered in moss.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

Not sure if there's enough swimming space and my water is rock hard!

Still haven't added livestock I may add some shiners if I can find them in the UK....


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