# Best "soil" for a dirt tank?



## Patriot

i would go with Miracle grow organic potting soil to start off with but that's just me. I don't have the time or room to do MTS.


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## Boredomb

With Miracle grow is there something special you do with it. How do you prepare it to put in the tank?


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## DogFish

Your in TN, it's getting late in the year to make up MTS. We typically soak & dry it in the sun a few times to mineralize the organics.

All the answers are in this forum, read the threads then ask specific questions. Try to understand there's thread a day asking for the two minute drill. It's not people don't want to help. It's you need to do some homework 1st.


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## Boredomb

DogFish said:


> Your in TN, it's getting late in the year to make up MTS. We typically soak & dry it in the sun a few times to mineralize the organics.
> 
> All the answers are in this forum, read the threads then ask specific questions. Try to understand there's thread a day asking for the two minute drill. It's not people don't want to help. It's you need to do some homework 1st.


Yes it is getting late in the year but I have an unfinished basement where I can do this project. Also have access to heat lamps. But anyways thanks for the help.


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## Patriot

Boredomb said:


> With Miracle grow is there something special you do with it. How do you prepare it to put in the tank?


Just put it in and cap it with sand or gravel.


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## Boredomb

Thank you Patriot.


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## wkndracer

There is a fair amount of ongoing debate on which to use MTS or NPT.
I've done one MTS system and eight NPT based tanks so my choice is obvious.
Duration of useful tank life is always debated.
This is my oldest dirt tank. I used only 1" of MGOPM setting this one up.
I have included some clays a couple times now to increase Fe and used the additions listed for mixing when setting up MTS tanks in newer natural dirt tanks.
Having this tank set up with dirt alone (MGOPM) and nothing else for over a year I saw nothing to indicate the plants were lacking any nutrient at all and growth never stumbled. Beyond 2yrs. now and still no additives or changes made to the substrate. Growth has slowed but the tank is still stable and growing plants. Adding the the other materials years from now I'll let you know if it matters. 

flooded 4/30/2009 this tank is still growing plants so what exactly is lacking?


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## Boredomb

Okay I just a couple more question first being I just want to make sure I am on the same page here is this the soil that is being used 








Next being I don't have a spare tank to hold the fish I have in the tank now. So does this soil leach ammiona at first? When will it be safe to add them back in?
Finally how many bags would be recommemded for a 55 gallon tank?


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## Patriot

Would wait until you have somewhere to put the fish. how many plants do you plan on putting in there to start off. The more you plant at the start the faster the tank will be ready for fish. a large amount of plants will absorb ammonia fast. Use enough for at least 1 inch at the bottom, you can make it deeper in the back for the tall plants.


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## Boredomb

Well that answers that question about leaching ammiona lol I do have a tote I could use for a couple of days. As far as how many plants well I don't know LoL. Here is a couple of bad pics of the tank. The first is from couple of months ago








Here is one that is really bad but closer to what it looks like now. It just has more growth now as i have not done any trimming in awhile. 








I will just be transfering them to the new substrate. I just want some a little more less demanding as far as adding ferts as I am constantly forgetting about them. LoL


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## Boredomb

The sword is taller now and the wisteria has grown out of hand. I really need to pull out the wisteria and trim it back! Just to give you an idea of how it looks now.


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## Patriot

i would plant those plants just like that, if you plan on adding anymore plants I would do it when you add those. The swords will love the dirt.


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## Boredomb

Yeah I was planning on planting it back pretty much the same way with expection of the driftwood on the left. I might do something different there not sure. I might sink it into the substrate a little more that way I don't have to worry about the soil under it being a problem. Anyways I am not going to be adding anymore plants right away as I am not sure what to add to make it better nor do I have the money right now anyways LoL. So do you think that will be enough plants to handle the ammonia pretty quickly? As I don't really like the idea of putting the fish in a tote for long.


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## wkndracer

add floaters right off and if you don't have any I'll send you some for the cost of shipping.
1.5" of depth when you press the palm of your hand down on the dry soil is what I use.
10 days wet will tell you if the parameters will flip out and using a seeded filter is a HUGE gain.


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## Patriot

That should be enough to handle the load. when you cap the soil with sand or whatever you plan on using do a couple of water changes.


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## Boredomb

I have some Black Diamond that I was planning on using. Okay soo will add the soil cap it off. Then I will add water about half way then plant it. Siphon that water out then fill it up and wait for a little bit then will siphon that water out and fill again. As far as the fish goes I will leave them in the tote for a couple of days till I notice the ammonia level is safe for them. Thanks for all the help Patriot!!


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## DogFish

Boredomb said:


> Yes it is getting late in the year but I have an unfinished basement where I can do this project. Also have access to heat lamps. But anyways thanks for the help.


If that's the case Colin can help you:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/155629-raok-ei-clay-root-capsules-shipping.html

He's good people, I've bought a few things from him including a MTS "Kit".

Still a good idea to read up on the topic lots of fime points to learn that will help you have a better tank. roud:


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## Boredomb

wkndracer said:


> add floaters right off and if you don't have any I'll send you some for the cost of shipping.
> 1.5" of depth when you press the palm of your hand down on the dry soil is what I use.
> 10 days wet will tell you if the parameters will flip out and using a seeded filter is a HUGE gain.


I missed this post last nite somehow. I don't have any floating plants anymore. I use to have some Duckweed but I really didn't like it. The only fast growing plant I actually have is Wisteria. As far as a seeded filter well the tank currently has been running since April of this year with the same filter soo it should be good.

Also just to make sure I understand you right here, Wkndracer you use 1.5" of soil but are compacting the soil with the palm of your hand to achieve this depth? Also as far as the parameters flopping I should now by day 10 right? So when would you add fish to this type of tank?


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## wkndracer

I have water lettuce and frogbit which is a larger plant so it's easier to control or remove completely when you want it gone from the tank.
Duckweed is the devil LOL.

with the organics (mulch) in MGOC it's 'fluffy' when dry is the best I can describe it. 
Pressing it down so I can judge what I have helps to get a consistent 1.5" layer setting up the tank. Months down the road as the organics break down this 1.5" layer will collapse to less than half that thickness so I hold back capping materials so I can add it later maintaining the cap and adding depth along the way as needed.

with a new tank I'll get everything wet and wait guessing 10 days to be the average. If the soils are going to release ammonia into the water creating a spike that will harm fish I've always tested rising levels within the first week.

HTH

(it looked like you had some nice angelfish in your tank currently by the way)


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## Boredomb

wkndracer said:


> I have water lettuce and frogbit which is a larger plant so it's easier to control or remove completely when you want it gone from the tank.
> Duckweed is the devil LOL.
> 
> with the organics (mulch) in MGOC it's 'fluffy' when dry is the best I can describe it.
> Pressing it down so I can judge what I have helps to get a consistent 1.5" layer setting up the tank. Months down the road as the organics break down this 1.5" layer will collapse to less than half that thickness so I hold back capping materials so I can add it later maintaining the cap and adding depth along the way as needed.
> 
> with a new tank I'll get everything wet and wait guessing 10 days to be the average. If the soils are going to release ammonia into the water creating a spike that will harm fish I've always tested rising levels within the first week.
> 
> HTH
> 
> (it looked like you had some nice angelfish in your tank currently by the way)


Duckweed is indeed evil! I got it as hitchhiker plant from my first plant order. It took about a month to show up and get establish but once it did it took over the entire surface of my tank. I didn't know at the time what it was and quickly find out. I kept it for a couple of weeks then it had to go. I took me tearing down the whole tank to get rid of the stuff. I don't mind freebies but that is one I wish I didn't get! Lmao
I have heard water sprite is a great plant to use as a floating plant but I can't get it locally for that matter I can't really get any plant locally. 

Okay so you have me a little confused. I understand that soil will break down and collapse a little but am I understanding this right. You add the first 1.5" of the soil then plant it and fill the tank up with water without a capping material? Just to add more soil later to keep the 1.5" of soil then cap it? Sorry for so many questions I just want to make sure I get this right and don't mess anything up. 
Thanks for the compliment on the Angels btw! There are 5 in there right now. One that is black, 2 that look like they are gold, and 2 that are marble. This the best I can describe them LoL


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## wkndracer

all the setup info is in the first couple pages
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/86457-55-gallon-low-tech-soil-sub.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...bum/131940-stainless-2-story-56k-warning.html

hope you detail a thread as you convert / setup your tank and join the fraternity


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## Boredomb

Another think I am trying to figure is how to actually to do this with out harming the fish. Along with five Angles I have I also have 3 otos and one Long-finned German blue ram (originally had 2 but I it died suddenly). I have a large tote I could use to hold them for a week or I have a empty 40 gallon breeder tank. With that said though I have nothing for the breed tank yet. I am still in planning stages of this tank and not gotten anything for it. With all that said. I only have one filter which is currently on the tank. If I move the fish to a tote. I would still need a filter or will have to do daily water changes as the tote isnt very big. If I am going to have to that could I not just put the fish in the tank and do daily water changes till everything parameter wise works itself out?


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## Boredomb

wkndracer said:


> all the setup info is in the first couple pages
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/86457-55-gallon-low-tech-soil-sub.html
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...bum/131940-stainless-2-story-56k-warning.html
> 
> hope you detail a thread as you convert / setup your tank and join the fraternity


Thank you! Also planning on starting a journal on this or I actually have a journal started on this tank jet need to be updated.


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## wkndracer

housing the fish slow down on your conversion and line out your plan before you start

seed a new filter and get ready first
with a new seeded filter for the 40B most of the worries are solved.
set it up bare and use it for the 10 day holding tank.

I did do a single day tank swap but only because I had other tanks that I could move fish into if needed. This is a shorter thread LOL
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/143352-another-npt-ds-dirt-tank.html


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## Boredomb

Sorry I know I jump around in the conversion a lot but I promise I am try to come up a plan that will work with what I got or will have to get. 

So step by step in my planning so far (maybe this will help clarify better) .
1 read some more on your threads to better understand.
2. make a holding tank for fish using 40b. 
3. setup a seeded filter. Now I just remembered I tore down a old 29g tank that I had. Giving that to mom shortly. It had a Aquaclear50. It does not have any of the pads nor media. I can use some media and filter floss from my Eheim currently been running the 55 since April to help seed this filter.
4. Once I get the materials I need and the understand start on the conversion. 

This is my plan as of now.


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## DogFish

Get a hold of as much Hornwort as you can, it's a get plant for ammonia management.

Use in in your holding tank, them put it in your new tank until it's stable.


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## ducky14523

I'm in the same situation as you. Me want soil. no have extra place for fish lol So I'll insert my question here as well, because i believe it will help both of us. Couldn't the OP and myself simply age the soil in the 40 gallon breeder or rubbermaid container and once the ammonia settles do a same day switch?


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## Boredomb

DogFish said:


> Get a hold of as much Hornwort as you can, it's a get plant for ammonia management.
> 
> Use in in your holding tank, them put it in your new tank until it's stable.


That's actually one plant I can get locally LoL. So will add that to the plan. Which I am still think about and reading info on. I will be starting a new thread about my journey into the my dirt tank.


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## Boredomb

Started a new thread on my planning and journey into a dirt tank here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...99-my-journey-into-dirt-tank.html#post1611644


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## CmLaracy

only read the first post, and IDK if you consider AquaSoil to be dirt, but it's really the best stuff out there.


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## nilocg

DogFish said:


> If that's the case Colin can help you:
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/155629-raok-ei-clay-root-capsules-shipping.html
> 
> He's good people, I've bought a few things from him including a MTS "Kit".
> 
> Still a good idea to read up on the topic lots of fime points to learn that will help you have a better tank. roud:



Thanks again. PM me if you have any questions.


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