# @#&*#@ Algea......Advice needed!!!!!



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I would reduce the light to 2 Watts per gallon or even less until the plant mass gets so dense that they cover and shade each other.

CO2 should make a big difference. Your PO4 is a tad high, but with CO2 your plants should be able to take it up quicker. 

What do you mean you can't get over 5 ppm NO3? Have you tried adding some KNO3? :wink: If "less than 5 ppm" means close to zero, then there you go. If it means 4.9 ppm, you should be alright...


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## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

Jason,
well, your nitrates and phosphates are not in balance. you should have a 10 to 1 ratio of nitrates to phosphates. Problem in my tank was Nitrates under 5ppm, and phosphates 1ppm. The plants slow down on growth due to low nitrate, so the algae latch on to the higher phosphate levels.
Sounds like yours is similar. I would call mine beard algae...shortish 1/4" long strands of a very very dark colored algae, that's impossible to pull off without tearing up the plant. When I see hair algae, I think of the longer (4"?) strands that are a lot easier to pluck off, often with a toothbrush.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

I have been adding NO3 from the Seachem product line... Short of dumping in half the bottle, I cant get the reading to register the lowest reading on my test kit which is 5ppm. I am thinking about switching to a dry mixture with possibliy the product from Ace hardware(stump remover).... I again am assuming this brand new test kit is good. Now that I think about it I am going to buy another kit on friday and try it, just to make sure.... Do you still think cutting back the lamps will help with this new info? I was thinking a blackout, but dont like the idea... I guess some water changes would help with that phosphate reading too.... 

I will say I am reluctant to add to much to the water column do to the root tabs and my root feeders and low c02 levels... 


malkore,
I guess you could call mine beard algea too... I know I need to get up the nitrates, and/or lower the phosphates. However I am reluctant to add to much with out enough CO2 and making the situation worse...



Thanks
Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

wellbiz said:


> Wasserpest,
> 
> I have been adding NO3 from the Seachem product line... Short of dumping in half the bottle, I cant get the reading to register the lowest reading on my test kit which is 5ppm. I am thinking about switching to a dry mixture with possibliy the product from Ace hardware(stump remover).... I again am assuming this brand new test kit is good. Now that I think about it I am going to buy another kit on friday and try it, just to make sure.... Do you still think cutting back the lamps will help with this new info? I was thinking a blackout, but dont like the idea... I guess some water changes would help with that phosphate reading too....


IME it's easier to get a tank balanced (read: no algae) with medium light levels. Once the plants thrive, go ahead and throw 400 Watts at them, but this is too much to get started.

You have the AP test kit? I think it's worthless for our purposes. The Red Sea kit is really much better, you can get it online for $7.50 + shipping. 

I wouldn't do any blackouts... even if you damage the algae, they will be right back when you resume lighting. All you need to do is improve conditions for your plants.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

Ok, I am off tomorrow to locate some good N03, will turn down my lighting to just the 2-96watt bulbs. I also plan on getting my CO2 reactor built.... Do you know of any places that sell the Green/spectricide stump remover... I have only one ACE store close, so thinking Home Depot might be a better choice...

I will also get one of that test kits for N03 from red sea, Yes I have the AP kit... 

Thanks again for all your help...


Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I got the Spectracide from Walmart, I think OSH sells Green Light. Not sure about Home Depot... just make sure you read the label... there are stump removers that contain other things than KNO3.

You are right about being careful to add anything to the water column, since it might make things worse. Just make sure the NO3 isn't zero.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

Thanks.... I dont plan to add anything till I get a new tester and see what my levels are actually at.... I will stick with either spectracide or greens stump remover(and make sure I read the label.)... 

Ok, N03 more than zero... Any optinum on phosphate levels or close to 0 as possible?


Thanks again
Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

PO4 as close as possible to 1/10th of NO3. If you get your NO3 to 5 ppm, try to keep PO4 to 0.5 ppm. No harm if it is a little lower, like 0.25 ppm instead. It's sometimes hard to differenciate with test kits... but it doesn't have to be soooooo exact. Zero is bad, and 1 ppm is too much for an algae infested tank. Happy measuring!


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Thanks again.... I will keep everyone posted on the war... It appears that the algea has won the first battle, but I aint about to let it win the war...


Jason


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

otherwise,

Thanks for the info and the link... I will check them out....


Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

otherwise said:


> But you also COULD buy KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4, Plantex, and a measuring spoon set from one convenient place for a lot less money.


How much does he charge for shipping? Couldn't find info on his website, and didn't want to enter my credit info just to see the shipping... I suppose the prices don't include the shipping.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasser,

I checked and it looks like about $5 for shipping UPS for the ferts I will need..... Not bad...


Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Great idea, nice guy. Sounds like the way to go when you are starting out with fertilizers. Thanks for the info!


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Alright, I did a major water change, tried to remove the plant leaves that were heavly covered with algea. 

I also ordered some fert chemicals, and a good N03 test kit... Heck I even made it to the hardware store and started picking up the pieces of PVC for my DIY C02 reactor... I will keep you posted


Jason


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

I got my red sea Nitrate tester and tested the water a couple of times and I get 0ppm Nitrates each time.... Its pretty clear that I have found the source of at least part of the problem. I am waiting for my C02 to arrive along with some bulk ferts.... I made a reactor for my C02 system which you can see in the DIY section.... I will keep you posted.

Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Glad you found it. Getting NO3 up to around 5 ppm will improve the health of your plants, and along with the CO2 it will make a huge difference.
Go slow, be patient... no instant results here :wink:


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## lanstar (Nov 29, 2002)

When you get your CO2 and ferts and crank the light back up, don't be surprised of your tank requires way more ferts than you might think. 3+ wpg and CO2 equals phenominal nutrient consumption. 

My lighting levels are only slightly higher than yours. When I was still using commercial fertilizers, I was adding almost as much every day as the bottle recommended you use in a WEEK. It took me a while to have the courage to do that, even though the test kits were telling me to. 

If you've got good test kits, believe them. Go slow but keep upping your dosages until your nitrate/phosphate levels are where they need to be. If you start seeing holes in new leaves, consider extra potassium. It's hard to overdose K and the plants will be using lots of that too.

Best of luck...

Tim


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Thanks guys, I imagine when I get my ferts,etc I just dont want to add enough to get 5-10ppm nitrates... I suspect that I will want to ramp up to that level over a few days as not to shock my fish? Most likely the same with the C02 for pretty much the same reason.

Jason.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wow it really is x-mas, my ferts came last night and my C02 canister this morning. Looks like that my regulator is on the UPS truck and is supposed to be delivered to day.... Now to get the tank filled on friday and finish my reactor.... Watch out Algea :twisted: 


Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Jason,

Yes... go slow on the Nitrates, I would increase it no more than 2 ppm each day, and actually would try to hold it at 5 ppm.

If you have never dosed before, you could "train" with a 5 gal bucket... fill it up, test NO3, dose to get it up to say 10 ppm, and measure to see if you get the expected result. First it was scary for me to dump white powder in my tank :lol: 

Same with the CO2... you don't want it [EDIT: the pH!] to drop more than a few tenth per day...

Merry Christmas... to you and your tank!
:mrgreen:


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

Thanks for the advice, I will keep you posted on how everything works out.


Jason


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Ok,

I have an update. I now have my C02 reactor installed and got the tank(c02) filled. System has been operating for a few days. I actually have pearling for the first time with this tank. :shock: I have also started adding a small amount of N03, by my calculation @2ppm as not to shock the fish, I will slowly increase to 5-10ppm... I have the bubble counter set at @45 bpm and have not started to see a measurable difference in PH yet. I will keep raising it slowly over about a weeks time. By my calculations I need to get my PH to about 6.8-6.9

Ph is @7.4
Kh 5
N03 still not measurable
Phosphates are up @1.75ppm(need to get them down?)

Any questions, advice???

Jason


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

One question on the C02, I have the solenoid connected to the light timer so when my photoperiod is over the C02 shuts off(note photoperiod is @10hours). 

So my question is: Is this ok, or should I run the C02 all night. I dont have money for a controller yet. I have been testing my PH still and havent detected a measureable amount of change. Though my plants are starting to pearl. I havent measured N03 yet today, but as of yesterday, I was still not getting a measureable amount(<2.5ppm) Have regulator set at 15psi, @50bpm now


Thanks again
Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Most ppl run their CO2 24/7. Especially if you don't see any effect on the pH yet, I would just let it run all the time. If you get more pronounced fluctuations between morning and evening you might want to put it back on the timer.

You should get some NO3 readings... Did you do the bucket test? I guess it is time to increase the dosing :wink: your NO3/PO4 relation is still unhealthy....


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

Yes, I played around with the bucket test like you instructed :wink: , plus I have dosed before... 

I have the mix in a 250ml bottle, where one ml should add @.54ppm to the water volume which I estimate at 100gallons.(used chucks calculator)(using a seachem dropper)

I assume(dangerous word)  that I can dose and then check the water in @ 1 hour to see if there is a change(or sooner???). I should also note that there is no carbon filtration on this tank, I only run sponges and floss in my XP-3's.

Sorry for the stupid questions  , just want to make sure I am doing things correctly and not going to quick to damage anything.


Thanks again
Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

You might run into solubility issues. I have a stock solution which adds .33 ppm per ml to my 100 gal tank, and I have to mix it up quite a bit each time, because the KNO3 settles down.

Anyway... so have you added half a ml to your 5 gal bucket and you got a reading of ~10 ppm as you should have?

How much did you add to your tank? Maybe 5 ml? And no reading afterwards??


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

Yes, I am finding it has to be mixed up before I can use it and I cant be 100% sure that it(KN03) has become completly dissolved. The next batch I make will be in a bigger bottle and of a lower concentration so I can be sure of completely dissolving the KN03

I wasnt that percise on my bucket test.  I was more or less looking for a change, but I will practice again tonight, that way I can be sure of my mixture's actual potentency. 

I added 2ml the first day, 3ml the second day, and 5ml last night. I tested a few hours after adding the first day, no reading(expected that only adding 2ml). On the second day I added the ferts in the evening and tested the next morning and had no reading(probably not an optimial way of doing it). The third day was yesterday and due to my work schedule I will not be able to test until I get home in @3hours this evening, again not optimal.

My guess is that I am first only adding @5ppm total over a 3+ day time frame and waiting too long to test. I assume I need to test within a few hours and not overnight as the plants are using some of the N03 up? So tomorrow I will dose in the morning and check @ 1 hour later to see what the level is(note I will also test again tonight)  

I will try running the C02 all night tonight, this way I can monitor the tank all day tomorrow. :wink: 

Jason


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

Ignore my post. Just tagging along to keep up with Jason's progress...


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasserpest,

Ok did the bucket test accurately this time and no reading on the red sea kit, so I used my old AP kit and it read what I take as correctly.... I called Red sea (very nice people by the way) and they advised me that my kit was expired  Glad I tried the test again, probably would have ended up killing some fish.... So I contacted the company I bought it from and they are shipping me out a brand new test kit ASAP.  So at this point I know the tank has @5ppm of N03 according to the AP test kit....

My dark grey/red brush algea is dying off. There was a bunch on my spray bar from the filters and it is 90% gone after @1 week of C02 and 4 days of N03. 

PH seems to be down as of last night to 7.0 I am going to monitor it today and see how it reacts... Still looking for 6.8


Thanks again

Jason


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

***UPDATE*****

Ok, plant growth is starting to take off. Noticing a lot of new growth from just about everything. I am also getting substantial pearling and still have @.2ph to drop yet to reach an optimum level. I am still waiting on the new test kit to arrive and a better ph tester... The beard algea is in retreat, now there is just some real light green fuzzy algea left on the slower growing plant leaves. I still attribute this to my balance still being a little off and the fact I have no patience....


Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Jason, did you ever get any SAEs? Sounds like you have the upperhand now.. don't stop.. beat that algae to a pulp.. or mulm.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Vinlo,

You know I didnt... I know you told a store downtown had them, I just never made it.

Jason


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

*****UPDATE*******
All the nasty long dark greenish/grey algea is gone, only left with light green algea that is fuzzy in apperance on the driftwood and slower growing leaves of some plants. I have my C02 up to 20ppm and while my test keeps giving me fits(see other thread in equiptment) Nitrate is at @10ppm. Plants are pearling nicely, and fish are happy. I have really noticed better colors and fuller growth on the plants. I think I am going to need a weed wacker to keep my chain sword in check. 

I still have so much to learn, but I thank everyone for there suggestions and patience. Most notable Wasserpest  


Jason


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Hehe, congratulations :mrgreen:

We'll figure out the NO3 testing too... I am glad your tank is looking better!


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Well, the BBA appears to be all gone. Then only thing left is this fuzzy short green stuff on some of the slower growing plant leaves. I removed as many leaves as possible and some specimens to get rid of the majority if it. The BBA just faded away on its own....

I have my C02 up to 25ppm, N03 @7ppm, phosphates are @.5, and dosing a trace every other day, so we are getting pretty close to a balance. Growth has improved alot... I put in a order for some new plants to replace what I had to remove so I can continue to out compete the algea. 

I hope to post a few pics in my photo album when the new plants get here... Cant wait...

Jason


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I have also been stuck with that last bit of the green coat.... been a few weeks now, seems very tough... and I made it worse when I left the light on for the gourami to guard his nest 1 night.


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

You are not alone Jason! I got rid off most of my hornwort because of that damned pesky hair algae! It is a good thing that hornwort grows really fast and wild.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Lost a lot of plants, here is my sad tank as it waits for some new plants.... 

Jason


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Your tank looks like it will fill in nicely, are you getting more plants because you want diversity?


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Sean,

Yep, looking for some more diversity, different colors, leaf textures,etc.... Thanks for the nice words.


Jason


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Nice Rotala buddy.  It is looking pretty good.. just needs time. How long is that thing? 12 feet? Seems like it goes forever.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Your "sad tank" is looking really nice! I kinda like the rock background and the smooth rocks to the left. The Rotala looks amazing, too. I bet it isn't easy keeping it short! The tank does look like it goes on forever, though, doesn't it? Especially at that angle.


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

Sad? Yeah right buddy! Looks better than mine!


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Scorpion said:


> Sad? Yeah right buddy! Looks better than mine!


hehehehe.... I was just frustrated with the hole thing..... :shock:


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

Hey,
I am still frustrated with mine. Specially after trashing that horwort. It grew wild. I will have to get a hold of a phophate kit. Still looking for one, but I am afraid I'll have to mail order one.


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