# How to get tannins out from almond leaves?



## ucantimagine (Jan 8, 2012)

I think the tannins are part of the deal. Maybe you could just use fewer leaves.


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## ucantimagine (Jan 8, 2012)

Oh you did say only 2. wow that's intense. lol


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Soak them in a bucket or something for a few days and swap out the water every so often.. I got a bunch from Asia but they don't leak any tannins whatsoever, and I actually wanted tannins


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## ucantimagine (Jan 8, 2012)

That's very odd for them not to stain the water. That's part of what they are supposed to do.


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

like everyone else said soak for a few days prior to use. also if you want to get rid of extra tannin left over you could throw a small bag of purigen in your filter.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Purigen can help pull it out.

The more tannins the 'better' the IAL in the eyes of many people (it is the tannins that provide the 'health benefits' as well as the acids that soften the water) but I agree with you that the really rich IAL just have WAY too much tannin in them for you not to give them the old driftwood treatment (several days of soaking).


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

I would test the pH in your tank as well. Coffee colored water might be really really acidic. As others said use some purigen in the tank to remove the tannins. Also do daily water changes, but only like 5-10% so you don't stress the shrimps out.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

diwu13 said:


> I would test the pH in your tank as well. Coffee colored water might be really really acidic. As others said use some purigen in the tank to remove the tannins. Also do daily water changes, but only like 5-10% so you don't stress the shrimps out.


I changed about 80% of the water today and all is well...water is pretty clear. 

The cherries seem to be doing great actually...very active and eating well so I don't think it affected them all that much (I hope).


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Whoa! 80% WC? Careful about TDS shock man ._.!

And Giants are down right now


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

diwu13 said:


> Whoa! 80% WC? Careful about TDS shock man ._.!
> 
> And Giants are down right now


I had seasoned water in buckets so it wasn't coming straight from the sink.

Yeah we're all watching the game at my place and I'm pretty bummed about the G-men. My friends are admiring my two shrimp tanks though and they think they are the coolest things. hahah


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## Snowflake311 (Apr 20, 2011)

After keeping fish for years I have grown to like the look of tea color water. Black water set ups with lots of branches and leaf litter look so natural. Carbon in the filter will clear it up in no time. But carbon might not be the best option for people that use minerals and stuff. 

soak leafs in HOT water will help.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Question here,

You know how Indian Almond Leaves, Peat, and Wood lower pH...
So which one is the pH "reducer", the tanins or the leaves/wood itself?

ie. you boil peat/IAL, then collect its tannins, then pour it into the tank. Does the tannin itself reduce pH?


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## longbeach (Nov 2, 2011)

You're in CT !! go out and get some good dried OAK leaves, they are great, lower in tannins, usually kept under control by water changes (regular ones). My shrimp love them, good hiding places and very attrative in a tank.

I keep 5 or 6 in every tank, just soak them in the tank til they sink and arrange them however. Get them away from farms and highways so they would be pollution and chemical free.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> Question here,
> 
> You know how Indian Almond Leaves, Peat, and Wood lower pH...
> So which one is the pH "reducer", the tanins or the leaves/wood itself?
> ...


It is the tannic *acid* which reduces the the pH.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> Question here,
> 
> You know how Indian Almond Leaves, Peat, and Wood lower pH...
> So which one is the pH "reducer", the tanins or the leaves/wood itself?
> ...


The tannins from the IAL, DW, etc, is what lowers the pH. If you just collected the tannins and poured it into a tank the pH probably would lower, but then it would slowly just go back to the level it was originally. With the continuous leeching, you're able to maintain that lowered pH value.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

If you don't want the tannins, there isn't much point in using IAL. That really is the point.... 

Don't use them if you don't want IAL. They aren't a "great" food so you're defeating the purpose if you try to remove the tannins.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

So I did exactly as you guys said and the almond leaf that I threw in my 15 gallon is no longer leaching any tannins. I basically soaked the leaf in a bucket for of water for about 5 days. What's cool about almond leaves is that all the shrimp hide under it and it creates a nice grazing area. Also, when I put food on top of the leaf and use it as a "dish" so the food no longer falls in the gravel. It's a cleaner way of feeding I guess.

Just to add...it's not like the leaf totally stopped leaching tannins. You can still vaguely see it in the water column but the water is no longer "brown".


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Next time you can use oak leaves from outside your house assumin it is pesticide free. You're wasting the IAL a little by soaking all the tannins out first. Though they aren't terribly expensIve you can still save a little money


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> Next time you can use oak leaves from outside your house assumin it is pesticide free...


"clean" leaves can be harder to find than people think. City & States spray for Mosquitoes, Japanese Beetles. Framers Crop dust, Industries product air born toxic waste, Diesel trucks exhaust has oil in it that leaves a film.

The worst part and Spraying for pests is you many not always know it is happing. Do a little research. It would be sad to wipe out your tank for a few free leaves.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

diwu13 said:


> Next time you can use oak leaves from outside your house assumin it is pesticide free. You're wasting the IAL a little by soaking all the tannins out first. Though they aren't terribly expensIve you can still save a little money


I used to do oak leaves in 2005 when I had my first hiatus with breeding shrimp. I liked them but I don't feel like going into the woods and collecting leaves....so much easier clicking a button and then seeing a package delivered to your front door. :icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr


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## randyl (Feb 1, 2012)

I just made a post on this topic, I'm including it here to share my opinion and result http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/164599-55g-shrimp-tank-set-up-help-2.html#post1718398

Removing tannin and humic acid from the water treated with IAL and peat does make sense if you don't want the smell and colour. The key is when/how you do it. To recap what I said in the linked post -- I use IAL and peat to reduce the KH in my water, my belief is once KH is reduce to very low, PH is much easier to deal with. You can even just leave that (PH buffering) to your substrate. 

KH, the ability for your water to maintain its PH around 7.5 (can't remember the exact value) works roughly in this way (layman's term)

A <=> B​- This equation means, A can turn to B and B and turn to A in your water, according to the water parameters.
- Let's say A in your water makes higher PH, and B makes lower PH
- Not trying to confuse you, I don't mean A being OH- and B being H+, but other things that can result in more OH- or H+. If you don't know what OH- and H+ are, ignore this one.

When your water gets more OH- (or, potential for PH increase), the reaction of buffering is from A => B. So more A turns to B and in the process your PH drops back due to more B in the water. Net outcome -> PH stays at 7.5 even when more OH- is present, the increase of OH- is buffered.

Vise versa. When your add condition for PH drop, your PH stays at 7.5.

So what does this have to do with IAL and peat? when they are present in your water. Your H+ increases (PH drops), so more B turns to A and your PH "struggles" to stay at 7.5. However, when all/most B turns to A, then you are overloading the buffering ability of your water (this isn't necessarily the right chemistry terms, but easier to understand) to the point A won't turn back to B anymore. What does this mean? -- Your KH drops. 

After your KH has dropped to the point you want (mind you, GH also drops in the process for reason not mentioned, and PH can be adjusted easily since KH is gone), you can now remove IAL and peat (really, tannin and humic acid). Your water is low in KH and it will let you play with PH much easier.

Disclaimer: I took my chemistry, bio-chemistry, and water quality courses some 20+ years ago. I might be wrong, but my result stands for it.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Purigen is the business!

I didn't soak a lot of the leaves I used in my tank but the purigen keeps it crystal clear.


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## mypetshrimp (Aug 27, 2008)

*purigen*

I'm using Purigen now in my canister filter to help lower the nitrates. If i plan on using these leaves, should I stop using the Purigen to allow the tannins to work?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

mypetshrimp said:


> I'm using Purigen now in my canister filter to help lower the nitrates. If i plan on using these leaves, should I stop using the Purigen to allow the tannins to work?


If you're strictly using the leaves to lower pH I would take the purigen out. But if you're using the IAL as a source of biofilm then you can leave the purigen in there.


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## Mike Hawk (Mar 9, 2012)

2 hour soak before adding the leaves. i would only do 1 leaf for a 15 gallon (7 inch long by 4 inch wide leaf). Keep in mind that the tannins are what lowers the ph.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Not odd at all for lower grade leaves or leaves that have been pre-soaked prior to selling.



ucantimagine said:


> That's very odd for them not to stain the water. That's part of what they are supposed to do.


For folks concerned about amount of tannins: Why not break the leaves up and test them in a bit of water to see how they're going to work? Makes it easier for you to determine how much to add.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Not odd at all for lower grade leaves or leaves that have been pre-soaked prior to selling.
> 
> 
> 
> For folks concerned about amount of tannins: Why not break the leaves up and test them in a bit of water to see how they're going to work? Makes it easier for you to determine how much to add.


I add 1 leaf to my tank for them to eat as it breaks down and never saw any tannins, but didn't worry, I use Netlea soil to lower my pH. Setting up a tiger tank and wanted to get the pH a bit low, so broke up about 5 big leaves and it went really dark. Took some of the leaves out, I didn't want the coffee water and put them in a cup and that cup got realllly dark brown with 4-5 broken up leaves in it. My yellow tank has been having weird deaths, decided to try dumping all that dark brown tannin water in to give some natural healing, all seem more active, better, etc. Maybe the lower pH affects the bacteria, if that's what it was. I know a lot of bacterial problems have trouble with a low pH and dumping 2 cups of "tannin coffee" in the tank might have cause a quick drop that affected them? Dunno, but I've been trying paraguard, maracyn 2, all kinds of things and still have deaths, berried moms dying, dying after birth, gh/kh is fine, did the tannin treatment twice and so far, not a death in days. Dunno if it helped or not, but going for a death every other day and loosing 8 shrimp to no deaths in 5 days, I feel like it did something.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Purigen does not stop the tannins from doing it's job. 

I have 1L of purigen in my 30g with about 7-8 IAL leaves and my pH has gone from 8.0-8.2 down to 6.2-6.4 and the water is crystal clear!


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## Mike Hawk (Mar 9, 2012)

eklikewhoa said:


> Purigen does not stop the tannins from doing it's job.
> 
> I have 1L of purigen in my 30g with about 7-8 IAL leaves and my pH has gone from 8.0-8.2 down to 6.2-6.4 and the water is crystal clear!


Sorry to op for highjacking but, how do you use the purigen? how long does it last? for a 10 gallon how much would i need to buy to last me a good bit?


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Mike Hawk said:


> Sorry to op for highjacking but, how do you use the purigen? how long does it last? for a 10 gallon how much would i need to buy to last me a good bit?


It just drops into your filter where ever or into the tank. I usually buy the 100ml bagged version since it makes life easier, it comes bagged and ready to go. The purigen is renewable or is able to be regenerated so it last almost forever. For your 10g I would suggest going with the 100ml bag and that would last a longer time between renews.


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## Mike Hawk (Mar 9, 2012)

eklikewhoa said:


> It just drops into your filter where ever or into the tank. I usually buy the 100ml bagged version since it makes life easier, it comes bagged and ready to go. The purigen is renewable or is able to be regenerated so it last almost forever. For your 10g I would suggest going with the 100ml bag and that would last a longer time between renews.


sounds good thanks


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## Lifeblood (Jan 31, 2012)

Mike Hawk said:


> sounds good thanks


I didn't know how clear my water could be until I added Purigen. I actually remove it and soak it in clean water for a few days after adding new IAL so the leaves can have their full effect before adding the purigen bag back.


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

magic beans....


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## Lifeblood (Jan 31, 2012)

eklikewhoa said:


> magic beans....


Yeah amazing magical beans.


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## Mike Hawk (Mar 9, 2012)

Lifeblood said:


> I didn't know how clear my water could be until I added Purigen. I actually remove it and soak it in clean water for a few days after adding new IAL so the leaves can have their full effect before adding the purigen bag back.


Where exactly do you put the purigen baggy? inside filter cartridge, behind filter cartridge, in the tank?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Mike Hawk said:


> Where exactly do you put the purigen baggy? inside filter cartridge, behind filter cartridge, in the tank?


You can put it anywhere. Inside the filter next to the filter floss/ceramic rings, in place of the carbon, or even on top of a sponge filter. As long as water will flow through it, it'll do it's job.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Mike Hawk said:


> Where exactly do you put the purigen baggy? inside filter cartridge, behind filter cartridge, in the tank?


I use Aquaclear HOB filters so I just use purigen instead of carbon.


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