# Excel and snails?



## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't know about apples but using Excel hurt my nerites. It put them into a kind of vegetative state. They weren't dead but they didn't really move. If they did, it was maybe an inch or two. They weren't able to close up or stick onto things. They would just sit there on the substrate. I wouldn't try it, especially in such a small tank, unless you aren't too concerned about the snails. 

-Lisa


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## Edub (Mar 23, 2011)

You could try using only a wee bit at first and see how they react, then gradually increase the dosage.

Do you wanna use excel for plant growth or algae control?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

25 drops seems like a lot. Isn't it supposed to be 1mL per 10G? I am assuming 25 drops is around 1mL? I dose excel twice a week in my tanks filled with shrimp and nerites. However, I dose half the recommended amount, only when the lights are on as well.


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## fr0sty (Jan 8, 2012)

Kunsthure, I just got nerites for my 2.5gal and dose excel daily and noticed that the snails didn't move much also.

I think I'll have to reduce the dose like diwu


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Glutaraldehyde is the active ingredient in excel. Most if not all invertebrates are sensative to this.


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

I disagree that excel is that bad for snails. I was dosing 21 drops of excel (using eye dropper) in a 2 gallon tank for about 2 weeks and my ramshorn population increased over that time. I also dose 21 drops of excel in my non co2 4 gallon and I dont notice any difference in their behavior.


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

Heck I have nitrites, Assassins and my PFR culls in my 55g planted and I double dose flourish each day with no problem other than my plants grow 10 times faster so I have to trim more often


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

Qwedfg said:


> I disagree that excel is that bad for snails. I was dosing 21 drops of excel (using eye dropper) in a 2 gallon tank for about 2 weeks and my ramshorn population increased over that time. I also dose 21 drops of excel in my non co2 4 gallon and I dont notice any difference in their behavior.


Some snails are immune. Excel killed the mini-ramshorns and limpets in my 13g, but even 5 capfuls of it for weeks in my 37g did nothing to the MTS. It's all dependent upon the snail type. 

-Lisa


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

fr0sty said:


> Kunsthure, I just got nerites for my 2.5gal and dose excel daily and noticed that the snails didn't move much also.
> 
> I think I'll have to reduce the dose like diwu


I think once they've been affected, there's no going back. I stopped dosing Excel and did a huge water change. When that didn't change their behavior, I moved them to a tank where I had never used Excel, or even any ferts, and still they remained vegetables. I felt really bad because it was like 6 or 7 and they were the nice BIG ones. 

-Lisa


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

So for water, 20 drops = 1mL assuming you're using a standard dropper. I assume excel is about the same density as water so give or take, you're adding 1mL of excel into a 2.5G tank. Which is WAYYYY overdosing.


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## Little Bob (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks everyone. Based on input on TPT and Apple.net, I'm going to try to give my bottle of Excel away and try some ferts instead.

BTW--here's how I calculated the 25 drop dose:
the dosing instructions on the bottle call for an initial dose of 5ml in 10 gallons.
There are 20 drops in 1ml. So there are 100 drops in 5ml.
Since my tank is 2.5 gal (1/4 of 10), the dose would be 1/4 of 100 drops=25 drops.
Where might I have gone wrong?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

I wouldn't even use the initial dose strength of excel as a basis. Excel can be used to kill algae (which is what I assume the large initial dose is meant to do) or used to provide a source of carbon for plants (the regular smaller doses after). So since you didn't have an algae problem I would've just done the .25mL dose twice weekly. No need to give excel away.


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## Little Bob (Jan 14, 2012)

There are some very interesting and somewhat related posts on the thread "vodka rather than excel" in General Discussion. Lots of good chemistry info.


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## randyl (Feb 1, 2012)

Vodka is little known but has some really nice application to this hobby. It kills algae is new to me, but it reduces NO3 is something I have experimented. And what I like the most is it makes all shrimps look so much better -- after you drink enough of it ;-)


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

I dose my communit tank with excel all the time. Don't tell the 100000000000000000 ramshorns in there that Excel is bad for them. lol. All my cull shrimp are fine too.


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

GeToChKn said:


> I dose my communit tank with excel all the time. Don't tell the 100000000000000000 ramshorns in there that Excel is bad for them. lol. All my cull shrimp are fine too.


Like I said, some snails are immune. But I know it hurts nerites because I've seen it first hand. 

-Lisa


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

Kunsthure said:


> I don't know about apples but using Excel hurt my nerites. It put them into a kind of vegetative state. They weren't dead but they didn't really move. If they did, it was maybe an inch or two. They weren't able to close up or stick onto things. They would just sit there on the substrate. I wouldn't try it, especially in such a small tank, unless you aren't too concerned about the snails.
> 
> -Lisa


I've got to say, I didn't really believe you at first. But then I saw that a Tiger Nerite them was upside-down in a tank I was dosing 1x daily. I flipped him and he still didn't move for hours, so I put him in my other tank and he started moving again immediately. My other Zebra Nerite is also staying above the water line.


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## fr0sty (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah, I changed my water and my nerites are still incapacitated...

They open up and if I poke them, they close up, but they don't open completely and crawl around

Hopefully they bounce back


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## fr0sty (Jan 8, 2012)

So I flipped my snails over this morning to see if they'd recovered, but still no.

I think it's like you said, they're permanently injured. They come out a bit, but not completely.

Should I just toss them since they're going to end up dying?


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

Yeah, just toss them. Mine went out into the yard. 

-Lisa


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## fr0sty (Jan 8, 2012)

I did a search cuz I didn't want my money/snails going to waste and found that sometimes they "hibernate" for a week while acclimating to new water conditions. However, it's been close to a week and still the same...

Anyone else see this and have the snails bounce back?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

fr0sty said:


> I did a search cuz I didn't want my money/snails going to waste and found that sometimes they "hibernate" for a week while acclimating to new water conditions. However, it's been close to a week and still the same...
> 
> Anyone else see this and have the snails bounce back?


When they hibernate their trapdoor will be closed. When they are on their back like that with their trapdoor half open, generally means they will die. However, unlike what Lisa said you can leave them in the tank. The shrimp will make a quick meal of them.


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

diwu13 said:


> However, unlike what Lisa said you can leave them in the tank.


And cause a huge ammonia spike...

-Lisa


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Kunsthure said:


> And cause a huge ammonia spike...
> 
> -Lisa


Hm.. never had a spike at all. Had 3 olive nerites die around the same time as well. I have a lot of stem plants, floaters, and moss though. So I can easily see them sucking up the ammonia quickly.


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