# Apistogramma cacatuoides in planted tank



## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

You have fairly hardy and relatively easy fish. Apistogramma aren't really in the same class, you may want to gain some more experience first.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Years ago I had Kribensis. Are they any different from them, in relation to care?


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

In that case I would still recommend against it. The tiger barbs may not really take well to a male apisto, and you would be better off bolstering your cories so they can actually shoal together, two isn't enough, six is much better to make them more comfortable. How long have you had only four tiger barbs? I've never kept them, but had considered them for my 75g, it's my understanding they don't do well in such small groups either.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

imeridian said:


> you would be better off bolstering your cories so they can actually shoal together


I only have two for I was concerned that if I had more that they would have problems getting food. 



imeridian said:


> How long have you had only four tiger barbs?


For 7 weeks

Now what is so difficult about keeping apistogramma cacatuoides?

I need a fish to breed to offset my spending on this hobby and I read it is easy to breed.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

They're simply in a different class than your other fish, more sensitive to water parameters and general tank conditions. Getting a pair for the purposes of breeding/selling them is pretty much a losing proposition, especially if you're intending on doing it in this tank. If you need to make money for the hobby this really isn't such a good path in my opinion. I'll stop raining on your parade now, but you asked if this was a bad idea, so I'm going to tell you that I think it is.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Now very uncertain as to what to do. For I have lost a few barbs and the Apist. cas. will only cost me $10. I have a 10 gallon tank that I could put them in when they are ready to breed. At a cichlid forum the Apisto. cas only get a difficult rating of 2.

I originally bought the 29 gallon tank for I was planning on getting some angelfish. After LFS said that they almost lost the angelfish when the power went out I decided against them. For I don't want difficult fish.


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## dravenxavier (Jan 29, 2009)

A 29 is really too small for angelfish anyway. Imeridian is right, Apistogramma are a different world from the fish you are keeping. Besides, once the black mollies are added, that's going to be a pretty good amount of stock in a 29, especially as things start growing. If your tiger barbs are still small, keep an eye on them as they start growing. Adults are about 3", and with a small number of them like that, they may start harassing other fish. IMO, the cories and tiger barbs should both be kept in larger numbers than what you have. If feeding the cories is a concern, take a small pvc pipe, and stick one end down to the gravel. That way you can drop some pellets or granules in the pipe, and let them sink to the bottom without letting the other fish get to them.


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## Rod Hay (Feb 11, 2006)

*Other posters are giving some excellent advise!*

One, cories should always be in shoals of at least six. They are much, much happier like this. And, yes, just feed them some algae wafers. Hikari even makes a special cory wafer. Then, with the cories in the tank, you will not be able to raise many babies as they are excellent fry predators!

Two, again, the tiger barbs are aggressive and do better in larger numbers. They are also known fin nippers. Cockatoo _Apistogrammas_* have amazingly long dorsal fins, as well as long caudal extensions. I would be worried that the long flowing fins of the Cockatoos will be too much temptation to the nippy tiger barbs. I had to yank Florida Flag fish (another known nipper) out of my Angelfish tank for this reason.
*(At least the good ones do . . . and . . if you really want to breed and raise fish to sell, you should start out with the most amazing fish you can find. Great quality from reputable breeders. Not dime store, mass produced generics!!!:icon_evil).

Three, it will take you quite a bit of investment and time before you start to break even. Because Cockatoos are fairly easy, (as far as _Apistogrammas_ are rated) they do not command the higher prices. Also, most buyers want guaranteed sexing of pairs or trios. This means you usually need to grow the fish onto size for six to eight months before you can sell them. Probably you will need to purchase an extra tank, at least a 40g, or two, (and equipment,) to do this. How many pairs will you need to sell to break even on just this initial investment?! And I'm really not going to start on about how much my electric and water bills have gone up since I've gone bonkers over the fish!!


Then four, who will your buyers be? If you want to sell to the LFS, considering they sell them for $10.00, what will they pay you? 50%? Or more likely just 25% of retail? Meaning you'll get between $2.50 -$5.00 per pair. I have F1 fish, first generation from wild parents with a collection locality. I still get just $3.00 credit for a pair! I have three local LFS that will take fish from me. Only one of them will give cold, hard cash!! The other two give just store credit. Meaning for trading in some fish, I can get free black-worms to feed my fish, to get more fish, to trade in for more black-worm . . . . . ._ad finitum_. And they don't want the fish when they are just 1" big. They only want them when they are grown enough to show good adult coloration, more like eight months of growing. 

Now when gas was close to $4.00 per gallon, the farthest store was an $11.82 trip!!! My closest store is 12 miles away - 24m round-trip, the next 62m RT, and the farthest (good LFS) is an 80m RT. Even with the now lowered price of gas, it still costs me $6.22 to get there. And if I get only a $20.00 credit? Often times a single store doesn't want to take all my fish. It's more than they can put in a single selling tank. 

It takes a lot of work, and quite a bit of time, before you can make a profit raising and selling fish. You seriously need to think who will be your customers? Most persons making any money are selling rarer, specialty fish to neurotic, fanatical hobbyist. To do this, you need a big fish room, ability to raise several varieties at a time, and ship fish out by mail. The person I'm gong to order my specialty fish from will have at least two or three species that I want. Thereby justifying the $40.00 Overnight Express shipping I'm going to have to pay. AND I'm not going to order $100.00 - $200.00+ worth of fancy fish and cheap out on the shipping!!!!

BIG NOTE: *I don't raise my fish to make money!* I enjoy my hobby!!! I raise some fish because it's fun and I like the challenge! I also raise my fish because I want to keep them, and if/when they die not only does it cost a lot to keep replacing them, most are hard to source. It's easier and more fun to create my own replacements. I trade some at the LFS because I'm probably going there anyway. And it's more satisfying than feeding my excess fry to my Leopard Bush Fish. (Whom I happened to purchase because I have excess fry: another tank, another investment!) I also hope by taking rare fish to the better fish store this will help create interest and farther the hobby. I also share my fish with like-minded crazy hobbyist at our Fish Club. If you really want to do this you need to join some of the local clubs**.

**:fish: (Yearly membership: $20.00. Driving to meetings: $57.86 per year (current gas prices.) Another $77.86 spent! If you want to be a serious breeder you'll need to get to know the locals!!)


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

dravenxavier said:


> Once the black mollies are added, that's going to be a pretty good amount of stock in a 29.


Well I am not going to be keeping all of them. Lady, whom works at pet store, needs some. So small as they are, 1/2, I am giving most away. For concerned that most will die while I am gone away for 2 weeks. 



Rod Hay said:


> Tiger barbs are aggressive and do better in larger numbers. They are also known fin nippers. Cockatoo _Apistogrammas_* have amazingly long dorsal fins, as well as long caudal extensions. I would be worried that the long flowing fins of the Cockatoos will be too much temptation to the nippy tiger barbs.


Well I guess I will trade the barbs in for cory's at LFS instead of buying some more. For I really, really want some Apist cockatoos. I will be getting some after I get back from visiting my mother.



dravenxavier said:


> If feeding the cories is a concern, take a small pvc pipe, and stick one end down to the gravel. That way you can drop some pellets or granules in the pipe, and let them sink to the bottom without letting the other fish get to them.


Very nifty idea.



Rod Hay said:


> I raise some fish because it's fun and I like the challenge! I also raise my fish because I want to keep them, and if/when they die not only does it cost a lot to keep replacing them, most are hard to source. It's easier and more fun to create my own replacements.


This is probably what I will end up doing on a very small scale. For just reduced the lights on my 29 gallon tank to reduce the electric bill. 

I am impulsive by nature!! Thanks everyone for your advise.


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