# Otocinclus observations and tips



## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

These guys can be really hard to keep alive through the acclimation period. I am by no means an expert on otos. I had seven die on me last year. But I am trying again now; and would like to pass on some observations and possible tips.

1. Get healthy otos to begin with. Pay really careful attention to how they behave in the fish store! Many of us have heard that so many otos are shipped in terrible condition and are barely hanging on in the LFS before making their way to you, where they promptly or eventually die. I went to a fairly reputable LFS to get otos in two batches last year -- they all eventually died. A couple died within a week; the rest died over the next 3-5 months. Now it *definitely* could have been my fault that they died! But I have also been realizing after watching a million YouTube videos that my otos NEVER acted healthy from the beginning, and that I don't think I actually knew how healthy otos behave, which made me very uninformed as a consumer when I went to the LFS. I have since gone to the home of a top-notch online seller and fish expert whose otos are in perfect condition. I am now in Day 2; all 8 have survived 48 hours, including the 8-hour journey in the car back to my house. I did the " plop and drop" acclimation method - it worked fine. Fingers crossed!

My observation is that these healthy otos graze in a relaxed, graceful and continual motion throughout much of the day. They do rest for stretches of time, but they are not usually either hyperactive, darting like crazy, or super-dormant, for too long. They are not merely nocturnal; healthy otos will swim around in open water during the daylight. They have fairly full stomachs, with their white bellies protruding a little. And their color is fairly dark, not red or translucent around the head or sides.

2. Get otos in quantity. I think I made the mistake of never having more than 4 otos at one time. And one or two of them were usually ill. So far, my 8 otos are not shoaling, but I do notice them fairly close together a lot of time. I think this helps them, especially in the beginning when they are adjusting to new surroundings. 

3. Have a mature quarantine tank with algae growth. I've kept a quarantine tank going for several months continuously - the last 2 months without any fish (just add fish flakes to keep the bacteria cycle going). There was a lot of algae growth - 95% of which was consumed by the 8 otos within 2 days. I'm happy they had good food to begin with. They also devoured a cucumber slice. Hooray. 

4. WATCH for issues in the first several days. Here's my story: so this morning of Day 2, I noticed that 2, possibly 3 of the otos were breathing really fast and doing that sickly oto thing (not moving much, hiding). Must be some kind of stress from water parameter issue - I can't pick up anything noticeable in my water testing, but I have been down this road before with otos and it has never ended well. Some usually die within a day or two of the fast breathing stage. Others hang on for weeks or months. But they have all died. So I was really anxious this morning. Here's what I did, and after five or six hours, it has apparently WORKED (the fast breathing stopped and the otos are acting relaxed and non-shy again). 

(a) partial water change (about 20%).
(b) inserted another strip of Polyfilter in tank (if you haven't heard of Polyfilter, look it up - I am using it for the first time) to adsorb/absorb bad stuff. 
(c) repositioned my airtube bubbler to create a much stronger oxygen current in the tank. The water surface is actually wobbly now. 
(d) clipped some algae-grown leaves from my non-quarantine tank and threw them in the quarantine tank w the otos (theory: the microorganisms and bacteria and algae on the leaves are familiar and comforting and nutritional to the otos and good for the water quality).

I'm not sure which of the above was most responsible for the return to normal behavior, but I am going to repeat this in the future if a problem arises.

Stay tuned. Here are a few photos of the little guys now.


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

Thanks for the tips! These guys are really cute and a lot of fun when they aren't breaking your heart.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

What is your pH? If they are wild caught in a stream with a 4.5 pH, there's not much you are going to be able to do to keep them alive long term. 

I would love to get some, but instead I got some SAEs. Even though wild caught, its clear they are very adaptable and hardy.


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

I'm not sure what my pH is, I haven't kept fish in a few years and I don't want to deal with Oto casualties again. I'd think about it if they were captive bred, but finding some for sale is like going on a unicorn hunt.


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Day 4 update: 1 oto death. No outward sign of distress, just stopped moving, then started curling and tilting to side. 
I took this as an urgent sign to do something further. I sensed one or two others were flagging as well. Here's what I have done.

a) Another partial water change. [Water a little cloudy from bacterial bloom - so unstable water parameters initially have likely caused distress. Polyfilter likely helping.]

b) Added another internal filter with mature media. Previously only had a 10g filter and an air bubbler to distribute water - thinking the quarantine tank only has 10 gallons - but there was detritus settling on the bottom, which I suspect means not enough filtration and flow. The otos seem to enjoy a strong flow of water. 

c) Seems that one or two otos have not touched the veggies (yet) and may not take to them - just in case I got some marbles and put them in a jar with dirty tank water and placed in the window sill, to grow some more algae. Will deposit the marbles in tank in a few days. Sheesh.

Recovery this morning! - the 7 remaining otos are swimming freely and are grazing. I have been feeding asparagus, cucumber, and leek (I think). One or more has taken to all, but a few seem unsure of veggie still (see above). Also put a little Repashy Soilent clump in there, which has disappeared (possibly dispersed and sucked up filter - hoping not). All algae in tank is pretty much gone. Otos are ravenous eaters when healthy. 

Food insight: has been said many times by others > veggies went untouched for 24 hours even though I had cooked and blanched them. So removing prior to 24 hours may not be a good call. On the other hand, I should watch for when to remove them before they deteriorate too much and spike the nitrate - I think it depends on the veggie and how soft and chewed up they look. Also oto appetite may depend on how they are feeling and other available food. On Day 1 the cucumber was gone within 24 hours (maybe pre-water condition deterioration?). On Day 3, not so much.

Okay, I do have a day job so am moving on to other activities.


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## vince01 (Nov 3, 2017)

My otos are omnivorous and although they are quickly onto courgette or crushed peas, they are also are partial to the fishmeal pellets and algae wafers that I feed to the other residents.


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

If you have freeze-dried tubifex, my oto's LOVE those. They'll push the cory's outta the way to get to them.


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## beckyhiker (Mar 30, 2017)

Mine do eat the Repashy Super Green and Soilent Green.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Interesting I might try that (tubifex) next time... I recently got 20 otos, 17 made it through 4 weeks of quarantine. The 3 deaths all were within 2 days and those 3 were looking emaciated from the start. I only changed their water once a week, and dosed their tank with metro / prazi at the start and some metro laced food in the first week as well. Their tank was full of loose stems and a piece of driftwood and I fed them repashy, veggie sticks, algae wafers, spirulina powder, and some veggies, but they practically ignored the veggies for stem plants and the processed foods, and I can't be sure more than half ever really ate from the stuff I added. I think half made it just off bio film /algae. They pooped... a lot. Some of them came out looking preggo, but I'm pretty sure they were just fat.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

If you are getting a bacterial bloom then you tank either wasn't ready or you're over feeding. You might be better with sticking to the rapashy so you aren't polluting the water - try pouring it onto a piece of wood when you mix it, then add that to the tank so it stays in position whist they feed if they are slow. It will stay stable for a fairly long time. 

You might find a wider flatter surface than marbles is better for growing algae. Pebbles/river rocks are good. Haven't tried marbles though so they may work ok.

Cappata leaves work well, as they can be safely left to disintegrate/be munched without polluting the water. Usually takes a couple of days for them to soak and the Otos to start on them if you drop them in dry, but a little boiling would probably speed that up.

Are you sure leeks are ok to feed? I don't know about fish but they are avoided as food for a lot of terrestrial animals.


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Thanks. Yeah, I think I had a mini cycle happen on day two. The tank was cycled for months but I think that the combo of food and critters made it happen again. I Think I have it under control now. I am not sure whether the veggie piece I had in there was a leek or something else. Now that I think about it I think it was the bottom of a broccoli floret. It was frozen from the freezer from a few months ago. Anyways the otos seem to like it. Interesting idea about the repashy feeding method. If I only had a piece of wood lying around! I also tried an algae wafer and they are liking that. About the omnivorous oto: is it not true that one should limit proteins for these guys?


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

That's good. I know everyone says how hard they are to feed but I've never had trouble with them taking algae wafers. You can stick the rapashy to anything that has a rough surface - I've found rocks a bit smooth but I've seen terracotta feeders that are scored flat disks. Wood is just good because of the grain. You just pour/drop it on before it sets. Dipped wooden skewers might work? Mine are pretty good at just chasing a cube around the tank.

I guess as they are 'aufwuchs' feeders it's really a mix of algae and teeny critters so a bit of non vegetable matter would make sense. Mine seem to get excited whatever I'm feeding the tank with but it's hard to tell what they are actually eating.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Watching my L236 tank they are all over this bottom scratcher repashy for my late night feeding...


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

They seem to like my Repashy Soilent chunks as well. Some new observations after 6 days. Seven of 8 otos still alive, feeding, reasonably alert, no clamped tails. All good. Watching a little bit of faded coloring -- still brown, not all-over pale, but a little lighter than usual and just slightly reddish hue around the head for one or two of them - this has never been a good sign for me so I am concerned. 

>> Inserting new leaves from an established tank + not letting otos get too thin/dormant. One or two otos are not eating a lot from prepared foods and look thin, although not emaciated. Also, all of the otos sometimes look a bit lethargic during the day - just not moving a lot. I don't think this is a water quality issue and I tentatively do not think they are sick (but see some signs above that I am watching).

My evolving theory as I said earlier is that otos really should be moving fairly continuously, and if they are not it is NOT because they are shy or nocturnal but because they aren't 100% well or aren't finding enough to eat. I'm not saying an oto can't hang in one place for a half hour or more and still be healthy - they can - but in my observation they are more active than people think during the day -- and in the past, I was content not to do anything when they just stayed in one place all day, thinking they are feeding more at night - this didn't work out for me. 

I am noticing that whenever I insert new leaves from an established plant tank, the otos perk up and start shimmying around toward the food source, then stay active for longer.

> Some of these otos seem fine adapting to prepared foods and veggies. Others - especially the smaller ones - are relying more on algae and don't give aufwuch about prepared foods. (That was a joke.) So providing at least a modicum of fresh algae/aufwuch source each day *seems* to help keep the younger guys afloat. I also have another evolving theory that if you provide a little familiar algae source, then their appetite stays up and carries over better to prepared foods. The thing I really don't want (and have seen before) is a hunger strike despite all manner of prepared foods being provided - leading to downward spiral and death.


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## UbbeDall (Jun 24, 2016)

I got 5 otos almost 2 months ago, haven't done a single water change on the tank (just top offs), and haven't fed them once, just let the light run a bit longer in the start to encourage a bit of algae growth. I've had otos once before as well, and I have to say my experience back then was also generally that they were quite hardy.


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

I am envious of you. That hasn't been my experience to date. It's been constant work for me. Since I have had problems in the past, I decided to rule out "bad batch" or "victim of bad transport to LFS" and get super-hardy otos from a reliable source -- to see if my problems are my own creation or not. I'm disappointed my water quality wasn't quite perfect to start out, but now I think I have stability and perhaps the road will be easier from here on.

Some people like you do say that otos' fragility is overstated and they have no problems - especially after the first few weeks. But judging from the internet chatter i think many people do have problems. I'm not yet in the clear. Also I happen to have a 10 gallon quarantine with no substrate or live plants (only my plant cuttings from the other tank and some fake plants/wood to provide some cover) - so very challenging to begin with; while the glass was covered with algae to start, it's impossible to keep enough algae in there to keep this many otos fed after the first few days even with the lights on full time - I think it will be easier to keep an algae stock going in my permanent tank. I'm curious how big your tank is and whether it's full of live plants. And did you quarantine to start in a different tank with different conditions?


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## UbbeDall (Jun 24, 2016)

It's 10 gallons, and I'd say moderately planted. I didn't do any quarantine but I also only had a single guppy in there before them. Now it's the guppy, 2 GBR, and the 5 otos. Here's a photo: IMG_0282.jpg

As you can see, it's kinda just left to do its own thing.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

I quarantine in a 30L (about 8g) but not bare - established with gravel base, wood and plenty of plants. Only a few at a time though - in hindsight I'd do a big batch of otos in one go. My quarantine tank is basically a regular tank I just move fish though - that way it's cycled, has plenty of bacteria, algae for shrimp or otos and good plant cover for nervous fish. It just means any issue is contained to that batch of fish. 

It also means I can match my quarantine tank water to my LFS water (hard tap) and then I have weeks to adjust them to my tank water (RO). 

My otos are fairly inactive during the day. They wiggle around when the sun hits the tank first thing, chill during the day and then get active again in the evening. I wonder if part of that is the regular evening meals though - means they don't have to spend all day hunting for algae. Or it could be my lights start to dim then and they like it less bright.


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Ah the fully furnished quarantine tank. Sometimes I worry about substrate and plants if I ever had to medicate… Or when I need to break down a tank if I am not planning on having anything in there for a while. But it sure would be nice to have that when you have otos.

I continue to notice that the otos are dormant/still whenever they know that there isn't that much food around. This goes for day or night. Every time I throw in a couple of fresh leaves w algae in there they start to perk up and swim around even when the tank is brightly lit. This seems to be serving me well, especially since a few of them aren't as fond of veggie or wafer or Repashy. 

Nice tank Uddeball.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Only thing I've had to medicate for is ich/white spot. Didn't have a problem with the plants/substrate, though I did do a good syphon of the surface of it to help. I sort of look at it like any other fish tank. If your main tank had a problem you'd treat that plants/substrate and all and once it was cleared up continue on happily without clearing everything out after. Most of the plants are off cuts not unique, gravel and rocks could be scrubbed so I could nuke it if I really really had to.

I expect what I'll do when I get to stage of no more plans for more fish is pop a half dozen small ones in and if I did want it empty again to quarantine new ones then I could temporarily house them in the main tank. Might just be an excuse to have multiple tanks 

Glad the otos are doing well


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## MudLark (Dec 4, 2017)

Thanks for this post! In a wild-eyed fit, I just got 6 otos, a cobalt stiphodon goby, and a Florida flagfish for a 16g hair algae-infested tank (it was that, or smash the thing with a hammer--I was sick of it). I will be curious to see what works for you with the otos. So far mine have survived almost a week, but I've been warned they could still drop at any time. I wonder if it isn't internal parasites that do them in?


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Sorry to post a bleak update here, but I'm pretty depressed about it. In the last week, 1 oto died (reasons unknown). The water started turning green - algae bloom. I did partial water changes daily and turned down the lights, but it was getting hard to see the fish. After 3 weeks in quarantine, I transferred the 6 healthy otos out of the quarantine tank into my planted tank, which is currently stocked with ember tetras, amano shrimp, 1 nerite snail, and 1 SAE. Parameters were good, and the fish should have been acclimated to the water because in the past few days I had been gradually putting some of the mature tank water into the quarantine. I put a Poly Filter in the tank to smooth over the transition.....

First 48 hours - things seemed ok. They otos were not swimming around lazily and freely, so they were stressed. But I was hoping for the best. I saw signs of eating - it was an algae bonanza for a while for them. Then. After 3 days, two of the otos were floating on the top of the tank, dead. The next day, two more were dead. Now I only have 2 left out of the original 8, and I have no hope they will survive either. They don't look happy.

EPIC FAIL! 

The whole point of this post is so that others, and I, can learn what to do better next time. I will provide any clues I can as to what went wrong this time. Clearly, I need help because despite all my precautions and lessons learned along the way, I have not succeeded.

1. The otos that died were well fed. In fact, some were fat. I wonder - too well fed? Did they have indigestion caused by some water parameter change or stress from the move? Death through constipation? 
2. Ammonia spike? Not so sure about this - the Poly filter doesn't show the bright yellow color for ammonia. All the other fish are swimming around without sign of stress. But I think an undetectable ammonia spike could be to blame because a few of the amano shrimp have died in the last few days along with the otos. Maybe it was not a good idea to add all 6 at the same time. I thought I was ready though - the tank has plenty of plants and I have two mature filters that have been going for many months, plus the Poly Filter, and the tank was already stocked for months with a dozen tetras, the SAE... The nitrates and nitrite levels are undetectable right now. 
3. Injury from the water circulator? Probably not but throwing it out there. It is near the top of the tank and 3 of the 4 dead otos were floating at the top of the tank (which is fairly unusual in my experience - the corpses usually aren't so buoyant - maybe it's just the flow of this tank).
4. Disease? I didn't see ich spots or any signs of disease before they died - not even clamped fins. I did notice in the quarantine that some of the poop was getting long - but it was dark, not white or clear, so I wasn't too worried. 
5. Co2 problem? I had turned down the co2 to give them time to get used to it, but I wonder if the fluctuations in ph are too much for these guys. 
6. Back to the amanos: why did I see several amanos die around when the otos died? Seems like it has to do with either the veggies I was feeding that these guys grazed on, or a water condition issue - like ammonia. These are more susceptible than the others to slight water condition problems. 
7. Stress from two tank moves within 1 month. I could have left them in the quarantine for another few weeks. I moved them after 3 weeks because they seemed healthy and I was about to have a string of visiting guests use the room where the tank was and I didn't want to be having to get in there while it was occupied. Sigh.

Larger issue: this tank has now seen otos and shrimp and snails die inexplicably, while the tetras and SAE are doing very well. Something is not healthy in there for certain species - I am still struggling for an answer. Maybe in a few days I'll reflect on some more things that could be harming them. I'm just sad about it all right now. I really tried hard to keep them healthy.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Sorry to hear that, usually if they make the first couple of weeks they do well 

The fact you had a bacterial and then algae bloom suggest there could have been something up with the quarantine tank/water. Which may have in turn caused stress or effected their immune system so even transferring them to the more stable tank water may have been too late.

I'm surprised you had such high death in the tank itself too though. That you lost shrimps/snails which are also sensitive - I think you are right to be concerned something more going on. 

Otos are like cories in that they gulp air sometimes so they are more likely to float when they expire.


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Another oto died. It got bloated belly and that was that. So I have one lonely oto left. So much for keeping them in quantities! Another few days have passed and I am still pondering what happened. And also why my amano shrimp happen to be dying too. I think I'm choosing to think of these as unrelated things. 

For the otos, clearly the switch to their permanent home did not go well. There must have been some significant difference in water quality that was not smoothed over during transition and acclimation. Maybe they got sick and could no longer digest and process food. Also my quarantine environment was not as ideal as it could have been-- lesson learned there....

For the shrimp--i actually found two on my floor yesterday-- I am wondering about the CO2, the dosing of PPS pro macro aand micro nutrients, the use of CaCl and epsom salt to harden water, and overly quick or voluminous water changes as possible reasons. Hard to figure out which of these is the most likely culprit. Thoughts from those who keep shrimp in high tech planted tanks? (Apologies - I know this was/is an oto related conversation ...)


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

....


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Have you come across this article before? It is one of the most comprehensive articles of otocinclus care I have come across. 

Many have problems acclimating Oto's to the aquarium- I will not reiterate the reasons why. It is all in here. 

TFH Magazine Forum ? View topic - The Otocinclus Paper [Work In Progress]


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Hi all. It's been so long since my original post. Silver lining is that the one oto I had left from over a year ago made it through and is still with me. I swore off otos for the past year because I didn't think it was humane knowing that I don't have the right parameters or conditions. But I didn't want to keep the remaining oto in isolation forever (which makes him super shy - he has a dark spot he goes to whenever the light turns on). So I broke down and got another one a week ago. So far so good. My other oto went nuts and has been following around the new one everywhere at night - so interesting. Two notes: 1) I ditched the quarantine for the oto, while putting other new acquisitions in quarantine. I didn't want to subject the oto to 2 water changes, and clearly my existing quarantine either didn't have enough algae buildup or the right conditions in the past, so I took the risk. 2) I noticed some stress after day 2, so I killed the light and co2. This helped. I also did a water change and slightly lowered my Gh (which is higher than the LFS). Oto is OK after 1 week....but I know this is only half the battle...I won't feel good unless it survives another 2-3 weeks. Its stomach seems not full, but not empty. Hasn't taken to zucchini or Repashy yet as far as I can tell. It has nibbled on glass and plant algae....


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## kgbudge (Feb 8, 2019)

I've had reasonably luck with otos, but it seems like I always lose one or two out of each batch of four to eight I purchase. The rest strengthen up and do fine. I've tended to write this off to the reputation they have for being in poor shape by the time they reach my LFS.

It helps to have a LFS you trust. Oddly, mine is a Petsmart. I know, but the help in the aquarium section all have their own aquaria, and are knowledgeable, and their fish are always well stocked and seem to be in good shape. My other choices include a Petsmart half the distance away that is _not_ well run. I go there only for rush supplies and packaged fish food, not for live fish. Their plants are okay ... when they have any decent ones in stock.

We have a very local chain (two locations) that ought to be good, and I do go by occasionally, but I am put off by their tendency to keep a few guppies in the plant tanks. _Why??_

But I've gotten a batch of ich even from my favorite LFS. It's too easy for a fish to pick up ich further up the supply chain, and not be obviously ill in the LFS. I picked up my last batch of ick that way. I've been skeptical of quarantine, but I don't dare _not_ do it any more, and my new 20-gallon quarantine tank just arrived and I set it up last night. Seeded it with water from my old tank, let its bio filter sit in my display tank filter for a couple of days to inoculate it as well, and then spiked the water to 4 ppm ammonium to get the cycle going. I'll post pictures tonight.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

@miktrebor how did that new Oto come along?

I recently got my first Otocinclus. Acclimated for an hour and it was dead by the next morning... Then I found out about its reputation when I was googling to see what was wrong. I definitely noticed it wasnt eating, kind of just stuck to the glass or other flat surfaces. Since it was the last one at my LFS I decided I probably just got an already sick one. 

A few days ago I got 3 more from a different LFS that had just got them in that day. I put them into my cpd 20 gallon breeder tank that had an algae bloom and so there was a LOT of algae for them. This time I noticed them actually eating, pooping and moving around. I was pretty stoked when I found them still alive the next morning.

Frustratingly though, 3 days ago (so 4 days since I bought them) I found one dead and then today another has died. I dont think their bodies looked abnormal or sickly in anyway. The 3rd and last one alive seems to behaving normally. 

Its a bit of a bummer, especially when here in Australia these fish cost up to $25! (~$20USD)


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Sorry to hear about the oto deaths. I am no expert. I think there is a lot out of our control, including their care and transport before they arrived at - and also at - our local fish store. I am happy report that I have had two healthy otos for a year+ now with no issues. After witnessing multiple oto deaths I can say it is so true that once they get through the first few months they are so easy. (And I almost never have any other fish deaths- they almost always live for years- just otos, in the first couple of months.) I wish I had more so they would feel more comfortable swimming around during the day, but my planted tank is too small to accommodate more. 

In the future, should I get more otos, I am going to focus on proper acclimation to their new tank water and making sure the quarantine tank is optimally hospitable. Even though I have had a 20g quarantine tank running on and off for years with live plants and algae growth, it doesn’t always have the best conditions for sensitive fish like otos. My observation is that quarantines (or main display tank) need to be super mature, with lots of water flow, space, plants, microorganisms and stable water conditions - the more like a “real” tank the better. True for all fish of course but especially otos in the first several months. Good luck in the future!


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Also it is like threading a needle getting otos at an LFS. If you snatch them up when first available at the LFS they likely still haven’t adjusted from their incredible journey from wherever. And if you wait too long, they may succumb soon after arriving at your home because of extended time under poor conditions typical of many LFS tanks. Sigh.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

Ah yes I also thought that too afterwards. Well I'm hoping this last remaining oto pulls through fine...


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## AdamTill (Jan 22, 2015)

I’ve been an oto buff for a long time, and the two keys I’ve found to keeping them them repeatably healthy have been to deworm them heavily on purchase, and to feed them properly like any other fish. Foraging otos are hit or miss, but I’ve kept 30 in a 20 long with no issues for a year by just feeding them properly.

My water here is on the hard side (8.2, tds 280 ish), but I’ve had at least a half dozen spawns over the last year and have had fry raise up to adulthood.

My last batch started with a brand new uncycled barebottom tank, and after a month I still had 17/19. Uncycled was because I didn’t have an aquarium going at the time to steal media from, and bare bottom is intentional to force them to eat “people food”, or non algae food. Once they know veggies are food, theyre still effective tank maintenance staff but they don’t starve out. Diet is a rotation of Repashy Soilent Green and a bit of community mixed in, red pepper, and zucchini. Three rounds of PraziPro separated by 4-5 days, change water as needed.

According to the oto paper referenced earlier it should be impossible to breed them at this pH, but it isn’t. The adults stay healthy too.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

I read somewhere else of someone stating that deworming their otos on purchase helped a lot, so will definitely keep that in mind next time!


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

WaldoDude said:


> Ah yes I also thought that too afterwards. Well I'm hoping this last remaining oto pulls through fine...


Did your oto make it? 🙏


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

miktrebor said:


> Did your oto make it? 🙏


Yes! So far so good!


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

Hello all,

I noticed my Otos are more active and eating more aggressively now that I've lowered water temp to 74.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

I've had good luck with a school in the past, I think that a lot of these So. American Loricarids, really need some fiber in their diet, and the best is from driftwood. They will continually clean and scour driftwood, and from what I've read from breeders of Bristlenose and other plecos is that most of these suckermouth fish primarily eat the biofilm that forms on driftwood.

I have a few photos of my 50 tall from back in the '90's which had a few good sized pieces of river driftwood gathered from a local river.

This image has a lone Cory Pygmaeus but the branch behind it was the Cory and Oto condo and both were very industrious about working it over.
when not resting within the tangle of Java Fern.





  








DSC00075.JPG




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GrampsGrunge


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Feb 5, 2021








At the lower edge of this shot, below the Male Dicrossus beating a retreat into the plants, you can see the edge of a large piece of driftwood that spanned the front of the tank. It was often times ragged with diatoms and green film and spot algae and the Cories and Otos loved grazing this piece. I think it was an old piece of Alder as it was a little soft in spots and it slowly lost it's volume to the action of the Otos over a few years time.





  








DSC00080.JPG




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GrampsGrunge


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Feb 5, 2021








I also grew a lot of Oakleaf Water Sprite in this tank and it's older leaves were regularly munched to stubs by the Otos.





  








DSC00074.JPG




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GrampsGrunge


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Feb 5, 2021


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

WaldoDude said:


> Yes! So far so good!


Great!


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## Dreya (Nov 18, 2020)

In case anyone wants to read the Otocinclus paper here is an updated link:








TFH Online Forum-The Otocinclus Paper [Work In Progress]


The Otocinclus Paper (reworking from Microsoft Word Form) The Otocinclus species belong to the family Loricariidae, sub-family Hypoptopomatinae. Hypop




www.tapatalk.com


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## Anon (Mar 16, 2014)

miktrebor said:


> I did the " plop and drop" acclimation method - it worked fine. Fingers crossed!


Hi @miktrebor 

I have some difficulty accepting this term "plop and drop acclimation". To me, it's a contradiction in terms. There is _no_ acclimation (or acclimatization as we would say in Old Blighty). So, this approach seems wrong to me. Otos are tiny fish whose osmoregulatory system must surely be tested to the limit when transferred instantly from one set of water parameters to another. It's not just electrolyte balance but pH, temperature, etc. Unfortunately, I can't provide any evidence to prove that this method is flawed. If this method has the potential to stress fish, then perhaps this will make the fish more susceptible to infection?

Anon


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## Aaronious (Oct 20, 2020)

So a I have an Oto related question, hoping someone may have an answer here. I originally got 4, one died. then plans changed so I bought 6 more, one of those died. No other deaths. 

The issue... The original 3/4 just chilled wherever in the tank and grazed happily. They all did this when I got the 6 new ones as well. After about a week, maybe 5 days at the shortest, they all huddle together now in one corner behind the canister output where I also have bamboo and pothos stems. I rarely will see one of what I think is the originals out and about. But that's it. they have now stayed behind the output for about 4-5 days now. I did a water change and tested it, it's fine. This seems more behavior related and I don't check but maybe once or twice when it's dark. I don't see them in the main tank(They are up behind the output). It's a 33L and there are 8 of them, they should be obvious if they are out at night. they don't seem to be.

Anyway, thought it would subside after the water change, I was busy and had to put it off a little longer than I thought so I figured that was it. just beginning to worry about their health now. 


Off side thought/question, I'm pretty sure there are at least two different types of Otos within each group. or are they just male/female. Some are lighter in color with more of a pattern while the others are dark and less pattern, just darker. These darker ones also seem slightly smaller.


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

Aaronious said:


> So a I have an Oto related question, hoping someone may have an answer here. I originally got 4, one died. then plans changed so I bought 6 more, one of those died. No other deaths.
> 
> The issue... The original 3/4 just chilled wherever in the tank and grazed happily. They all did this when I got the 6 new ones as well. After about a week, maybe 5 days at the shortest, they all huddle together now in one corner behind the canister output where I also have bamboo and pothos stems. I rarely will see one of what I think is the originals out and about. But that's it. they have now stayed behind the output for about 4-5 days now. I did a water change and tested it, it's fine. This seems more behavior related and I don't check but maybe once or twice when it's dark. I don't see them in the main tank(They are up behind the output). It's a 33L and there are 8 of them, they should be obvious if they are out at night. they don't seem to be.
> 
> ...


Whoa! Maybe this is a seasonal thing, my Otos started hiding about 2 weeks ago. Clustered together in a corner.

Before I read this I was going to post if anyone had experience with them being sensitive to bug spray. I have gnats in my pots in the same room I'm growing seedlings. 

Interesting, same behavior....


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## Aaronious (Oct 20, 2020)

dawktah2 said:


> Whoa! Maybe this is a seasonal thing, my Otos started hiding about 2 weeks ago. Clustered together in a corner.
> 
> Before I read this I was going to post if anyone had experience with them being sensitive to bug spray. I have gnats in my pots in the same room I'm growing seedlings.
> 
> Interesting, same behavior....


crazy!

last night I checked again about 20 minutes after lights out. There were 3 or 4 out from behind the output. But they were only about 6 inches from the output. It's been about a week now. They are in a Gourami tank but they ignore these Otos all together.... I haven't seen one even take a second look at them. Hell, I haven't even seen one take a first look....


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## ZChalk (Jan 13, 2021)

Are you sure its not a dissolved oxygen (DO) water issue? I don't have any personal experience with the fish (looking to maybe get a group soon) but from what I read they come from slow to medium flowing streams and rivers that are highly oxygenated. At night plants consume oxygen and given that the fish hover near the output of the filter at night it leads me to think you have a DO issue. The air pump helps break the surface to allow some Co2 escape but it is likely not enough and your fish might be dying of asphyxiation. Just an idea to investigate.


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

ZChalk said:


> Are you sure its not a dissolved oxygen (DO) water issue? I don't have any personal experience with the fish (looking to maybe get a group soon) but from what I read they come from slow to medium flowing streams and rivers that are highly oxygenated. At night plants consume oxygen and given that the fish hover near the output of the filter at night it leads me to think you have a DO issue. The air pump helps break the surface to allow some Co2 escape but it is likely not enough and your fish might be dying of asphyxiation. Just an idea to investigate.


I run air starting 1 hour after CO2 turns off so about 8pm. Air turns off 1 hour before CO2 turns on. They are actually hanging out under my CO2 diffuser...


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## ZChalk (Jan 13, 2021)

Just food for thought on DO requirements for anyone curious. This doesn't directly apply but just illustrates how levels vary depending on fish.


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## Aaronious (Oct 20, 2020)

ZChalk said:


> Are you sure its not a dissolved oxygen (DO) water issue? I don't have any personal experience with the fish (looking to maybe get a group soon) but from what I read they come from slow to medium flowing streams and rivers that are highly oxygenated. At night plants consume oxygen and given that the fish hover near the output of the filter at night it leads me to think you have a DO issue. The air pump helps break the surface to allow some Co2 escape but it is likely not enough and your fish might be dying of asphyxiation. Just an idea to investigate.


I have an air stone that runs 24/7 at the opposite end. I have the output set up to cause surface disturbance on one end and the air does it on the other end. So I also don't think it's the air that's an issue.

@dawktah2 I checked again last night. They seem to be coming out a little but again I only see a few at a time and no more than about 8 inches from the corner. they seem a little skittish but I am shining a light at them when it was pitch black the instant before. so makes sense there.


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

I did another water change. The only other thing that is new is I am using Seachem Alkalinity and Acid Buffer. I am going to stop using this and switch to Salty Shrimp Shrimp Mineral GH/KH. I am going to do anther water change Monday using no Seachem products.


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

Otos still clustered in the corner and algae is growing on Anubias. So how long can one of these fish go without eating? Can't tell if they are sick or what's going on.


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

@Aaronious @miktrebor All three still alive but no change in behavior. I upgraded to canister filter. Switching to Shrimp Mineral next water change. I am considering buying 3 more but don't have a way to quarantine.


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## Aaronious (Oct 20, 2020)

dawktah2 said:


> Otos still clustered in the corner and algae is growing on Anubias. So how long can one of these fish go without eating? Can't tell if they are sick or what's going on.


Mine haven't come back either. I haven't lost any. When I did a water change they all came out. pretty sure this was cause the filter was off. also a canister filter. I took this opportunity and pulled the 8, split them into 4's and now they are in two groups in my 10 gallon play tanks. they seem mostly nocturnal now, even though the first three were happily out and about all day. I don't see a lot of feeding from any of them but none are skinny either though. I have read these are difficult fish, I never understood how. This must be part of it. I read somewhere they were hard to please or something. picky with parameters? I don't recall. 

I will say they seem a little better in these 10 gallon tanks which only have sponge filters. So Maybe it has something to do with the flow?


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

Aaronious said:


> Mine haven't come back either. I haven't lost any. When I did a water change they all came out. pretty sure this was cause the filter was off. also a canister filter. I took this opportunity and pulled the 8, split them into 4's and now they are in two groups in my 10 gallon play tanks. they seem mostly nocturnal now, even though the first three were happily out and about all day. I don't see a lot of feeding from any of them but none are skinny either though. I have read these are difficult fish, I never understood how. This must be part of it. I read somewhere they were hard to please or something. picky with parameters? I don't recall.
> 
> I will say they seem a little better in these 10 gallon tanks which only have sponge filters. So Maybe it has something to do with the flow?


@Aaronious I think you may be right. I wonder, how long can a canister filter be off before bacteria die due to lack of oxygen? Maybe, try filter hour on, hour off?

This article is inconclusive but seems to imply starting hour on/off could give an idea if this is the cause?

They're a river fish so flow should be something they are used to. I'm going to buy another three fish. See what happens.






How Long The Bacteria Can Live In The Filter When There Is A Power Cut


There is power cut in my house, i wonder how long the bacteria will live in the filter without power. a few hours? what should i do? similiar things happens, e.g. you are moving house etc. so normally what should we do?



www.fishforums.net




.

.


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

Hello @Aaronious and @miktrebor I bought 3 new Otocinclus, two of the three didn't care about the flow, one was stationary until I turned canister off.

This one locked in and didn't move until filter was off.
View attachment 1027642



This one started clearing leaf off...didn't care.
View attachment 1027643


So too high of flow may have something to do with behavior but is not the only factor. Will be buying a timer tomorrow to turn canister to a on/off program with always on when lights are off


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## Aaronious (Oct 20, 2020)

dawktah2 said:


> Hello @Aaronious and @miktrebor I bought 3 new Otocinclus, two of the three didn't care about the flow, one was stationary until I turned canister off.
> 
> This one locked in and didn't move until filter was off.
> View attachment 1027642
> ...


I still have my 8 split in two 10 gallons. They seem pretty happy these days. In these tanks are all new fish that are quarantining sort of. As I have never had a problem from this LFS. but they are all about the same size, I think this has calmed the Otos a good amount.


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

I have placed canister on a timer so its off 30 minutes evenly spaced overnight and on 30 minutes off an hour evenly spaced during the day. If the Otos come out and start behaving more normally I will report back. Otherwise, will just continue this topic on my journal.

No change

Thanks for everyone's help


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

Just wanted to give an update.

Otos are doing the T'Challah. I saw at least four of them today, during water change. Other than that hiding.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

Two pieces of advice that I have not seen mentioned:

1) If at all possible purchase otto that have been sitting at the store for a couple of weeks or longer. That way the weak ones are not for sale by the time you purchase them.

2) Never put them in a new tank - always put them in a well established tank that is well decorated with wood and plants. The reason for this isn't just the obvious of swing in water chemistry and an established cycle but otto also feed heavily off of biofilm and that takes a while to build up.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Can't emphasize the mature tank enough!! A lot of oto won't take algae wafers, period. They will starve to death before taking wafers. Not all are like this but I'd say a good 60% of the otos I've dealt with are like this. Actively feeding them blanched veggies _may_ work for most of them, but I've come acrossed a few that require aufwuchs, they have refused everything but aufwuchs and biofilm.


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## dawktah2 (Feb 18, 2021)

I saw four of them, alive. They are eating something. They said "as you can see we aren't dead..."

I haven't seen an Oto outside of weekly water change, when I disturb crypts.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

dawktah2 said:


> I saw four of them, alive. They are eating something. They said "as you can see we aren't dead..."
> 
> I haven't seen an Oto outside of weekly water change, when I disturb crypts.


😂😂😂 my single oto taunts me all the time with his fat belly- I swear it's because I've held the "no less than 8 oto" rule for so long that he's just mocking me. I removed all his buddies when I was having filter issues and they were unhappy. He's the stubborn stand alone and he thinks he's a rummynose (he schools with them). Gotta love 'em.


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## WaldoDude (Jul 4, 2019)

miktrebor said:


> Did your oto make it? 🙏


Random update: So about a month and a bit after I responded to this saying my 1 otto was fine, I went away for a week, came back and could not find the otto at all. Presumably died at some point and eaten completely by the shrimp and cpds... Strange as it seemed fine when I left and a week isnt too long. Looked around to make sure it didnt jump or anything. All other fish and shrimp were fine and still are to this day.


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

Anon said:


> Hi @miktrebor
> 
> I have some difficulty accepting this term "plop and drop acclimation". To me, it's a contradiction in terms. There is _no_ acclimation (or acclimatization as we would say in Old Blighty). So, this approach seems wrong to me. Otos are tiny fish whose osmoregulatory system must surely be tested to the limit when transferred instantly from one set of water parameters to another. It's not just electrolyte balance but pH, temperature, etc. Unfortunately, I can't provide any evidence to prove that this method is flawed. If this method has the potential to stress fish, then perhaps this will make the fish more susceptible to infection?
> 
> Anon





WaldoDude said:


> Random update: So about a month and a bit after I responded to this saying my 1 otto was fine, I went away for a week, came back and could not find the otto at all. Presumably died at some point and eaten completely by the shrimp and cpds... Strange as it seemed fine when I left and a week isnt too long. Looked around to make sure it didnt jump or anything. All other fish and shrimp were fine and still are to this day.


sorry to hear that….You know I keep hearing that otos prefer being with other otos. They fail to thrive without company. So he may have just gotten a little bit too isolated and scared to do his normal amt of grazing for food…. I now have three otos, which are still hiding most of the day but I have noticed little bits of increased confidence in them grazing even during the day. I will never forget the one time that I had 8 otos, they just swimming around like a shoal. Completely different behavior than when i had fewer #s. It made me want to get more, but i was having issues keeping them alive so i went on a moratorium for a while. After another year or two of tinkering with the tank and my water parameters and adding plants and being a little bit better about acclimating new otos to my tank, my success rate is much better at keeping them alive. It could’ve been luck, but I think you just accumulate a lot of experience observing these critters and getting used to them. I swear that once they get through a certain period, they are nearly indestructible. One time I even horribly got one of the otos stuck in my cleaning sponge and I had to spend 10 minutes disentangling it. I swore it was a goner, but the next day he was swimming around like nothing happened!


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

I have 10 in a 40B - i normally find 9 nearly every day near the front waiting for when i feed the fishes. A couple of them are pretty large - i presume females - kind of wish i would end up with a lot of little ottos but they never seem to have an interest in spawning...
-
I have had them now for a year+. I had 4 that are over 1.5 years old and then picked up another 6 8 or 9 months ago.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

jake21 said:


> I have 10 in a 40B - i normally find 9 nearly every day near the front waiting for when i feed the fishes. A couple of them are pretty large - i presume females - kind of wish i would end up with a lot of little ottos but they never seem to have an interest in spawning...
> -
> I have had them now for a year+. I had 4 that are over 1.5 years old and then picked up another 6 8 or 9 months ago.


From what I've been told by a couple that has managed to spawn their otos repeatedly ("not sure if vitatus or affinis but definitely one of the 2") it required specimen only tank and "optimal conditions" (I'm assuming targeted parameters). I've had a few do the dance but never actually successfully spawned.


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

If anyone in the NYC area is able to breed and sell otos, please let me/us know! It would be amazing to have a local source that doesn't rely on LFS who get them shipped in horrible shape from the Amazon. I think that's half the battle in keeping these suckers (I mean that literally) alive through the first few weeks.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

miktrebor said:


> If anyone in the NYC area is able to breed and sell otos, please let me/us know! It would be amazing to have a local source that doesn't rely on LFS who get them shipped in horrible shape from the Amazon. I think that's half the battle in keeping these suckers (I mean that literally) alive through the first few weeks.


Spot on


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## stryker.239 (Sep 24, 2021)

Like many of you, I've had otos over the years, and had trouble keeping them. I decided to try again and I got new ones about a month ago and they have had the strangest behavior for otos. They swim with the other fish in the middle to top area of the tank all day long. They are never at the bottom and are never eating algae from what I see. They seem to sleep stuck to the side of the glass near the top. Have any of you seen this type of behavior before. Like I said, I've kept many over the years, but have never seen this type of behavior.


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## miktrebor (May 23, 2017)

stryker.239 said:


> Like many of you, I've had otos over the years, and had trouble keeping them. I decided to try again and I got new ones about a month ago and they have had the strangest behavior for otos. They swim with the other fish in the middle to top area of the tank all day long. They are never at the bottom and are never eating algae from what I see. They seem to sleep stuck to the side of the glass near the top. Have any of you seen this type of behavior before. Like I said, I've kept many over the years, but have never seen this type of behavior.


Is this behavior continuing? When I had 8 healthy otos they would meander freely during the daytime in a pack, sometimes near the top. Now I only have 3, so they always stay hidden until night, when they graze. I have had the same 3 otos for a few years. As long as they don’t seem in distress (swimming frantically or gasping for air near top, like when you have too much co2 in the water) or underfed, gentle swimming around is a good sign imho.


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