# Led is it worth it?



## Curt_914 (Oct 6, 2007)

So as with everything in life and electronics evolution is enevitable. But are LED's really the wave of the future?

I am in a quandry at the moment. I have a planted tank and am trying to get back into this hobby. Led has intreagued me for a few years due to a couple reasons. Their low power consumption and there suposed longevity(40,000)+ hours. This would mean 5-7 years before having to replace a light. Now I see all these companys going to strictly LED, and phaseing out Metal Halide, Compact flourcent, T-5 etc... but we all still have these fixtures, and guess what they still work! Now I have been doing some limited research and found that LED may not last as long as reported. Why do I say this? Well companys that used to put warente's of 1-5 years on fixtures, no only put 6 month warentees on productsand I have read many extended reviews that have said, this fixture is awesome.... for the first month. Or after the warentee ran out my light died... and now I have to replace it. 

So if a product the has a life expectancy of 5-7 years falls flat in 4 months, whats up with that. I also cannot seem to find users of Led fixtures that post any updates on products after the 3 month mark. Why is this? I really want to support LED but am having a hard time justifying the jump, as people I know all say the same thing, their cool but stick with your t-5... Is this just because it is an untried technology, orthat LED is just a gimmick. 

In the long run I may eventually have to go to LED because t-5 will no longer be avaliable. I am just trying to see if I should move now or a year from now.

I am currently looking at the Current Sat+ Pro 24", and the Finnex planted +/ planted + 24/7 same 24" fixture.

Just want to open disscussion on the topic,

Curt


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## Timmy!! (Jun 26, 2014)

A little over a year ago I decided instead of buying expensive bulbs for my T5s, I would try out LEDs and see what all the hype was about. I have to say, once you go to LEDs you probably won't ever go back. My T5s are now on a grow out tank that I don't really care about and I have LEDs on all the tanks I like and the collection is constantly growing. My oldest fixture is over a year old and I haven't had a single problem with any of my LEDs. They are far from being a gimmick. Most of the higher end lights have a ton of options that you can't get with T5s. You get ramp up timers, color control by the push of a button, storm simulator, super flexible dimming, and I love the shimmer effect  Get a good fixture and you won't regret going LED. The lights you mentioned are all great, personally I would go with the current satellite plus pro. 
Good luck!

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


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## essabee (Oct 7, 2006)

The LED may have the extended life but the life of their drivers and additional circuits perhaps don't match their lives. Most of the newer models come with elaborate circuitry and remote controls which perhaps brings down the period of warranty.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I had several LED lights including the Current USA SAT+. My current tank, and my next tank, is running with 10.25" dome shop lights with regular spiral CFL lights. I love them. Sure, I'll have to replace them every year ($9 for 4 at Walmart/Lowes/Etc). I also recall reading some actual data on power consumption and LED lights are not that much more cost effective. It isn't like driving a Mirage instead of a Titan. 

The only reason I would use a LED light is if physical appeal of the fixture was in question. With a hood, this is a moot point. My 20g has the light exposed, so I am using a low cost LED model there (Chinese generic). I'm not very hyped on LEDs myself. The sunrise/sunset stuff is cool though.


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## bsherwood (Nov 22, 2007)

I am in the process of swapping out all of my t5, 58 compact flourescent (straight and 4 sq).....The cost of the bulbs is ridiculous and so is what they did to my elec. bill....I am half done.
I have settled on the Finnex RayII's as the way I want to go.

I'll never go back.


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

bsherwood said:


> I am in the process of swapping out all of my t5, 58 compact flourescent (straight and 4 sq).....The cost of the bulbs is ridiculous and so is what they did to my elec. bill....I am half done.
> I have settled on the Finnex RayII's as the way I want to go.
> 
> I'll never go back.


With about 30 tanks, I'm about 75% of the way through the process. 

At first it wasn't much of a savings, but I DIY'd some under-cabinet LED panels I found on Amazon and at 3W per panel, they do an awesome job on a 10G and over tanks with low-light plants.

At $20-$25 for a quality T5 bulb every 12-18 months, it actually ends up being a lot cheaper.

I was neck-deep in SW for 13 years and ran through every single lighting platform change. Aside from power consumption, if you've ever dealt with having a MH (or several) fixture running for 8+ hours you have to start factoring extra AC costs in summer to compensate for those cookers and lower heating in winter.

When considered as a package and if you scrounge around in the non-aquatic world, you can save quite a bit in the long run.


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## bsherwood (Nov 22, 2007)

I had Halides when I was into Salt. Waaaaaaay more expensive than my hot tub....


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## Curt_914 (Oct 6, 2007)

Timmy,

What fixtures do you have? And what brand is the fixture that you have that is a year okd?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Let us do some full blown honesty here (w/ some diversions between things):
Starting w/ flourescent "tubes"..
I have an over 30 year old 4ft "black light" w/ magnetic ballast and starter that still functions like day one. I also have a box of dual tube 4ft electronic ballast light fixtures that lasted "maybe" 2 years before the ballasts died.. 
Point is how long it will live is based on how well it is made. And of course things are not made very well anymore, in general. This goes for tubes/ballasts,power supplies ect. No current tech (new products) gives any guarantee of old school longevity. Even if built w/ old tech (but using "modern" components).
Think about the millions of twist fluorescent that never made it anywhere NEAR their projected lifespan, and probably never "paid for themselves". 

LED's can be more energy efficient than most current "normal" lighting (there are more efficient than LED but certainly not common, normal. nor cheap per se.) but unless you are replacing metal halides ect. your ROI will not be very large based on the cost of switching. 
Als think about the millions of twist fluorescent that never made it anywhere NEAR their projected lifespan, and probably never "paid for themselves".

t8's are just as efficient than t4's and T5HO and last just as long. As long as the watts are equal t5ho output is the same.
Just a higher density in a smaller package.
On to LED output: Efficient tubes can produce efficiencies of 100lumens/watt.. about the same as the better LED's, better than the cheaper LEDs, but not as good as current LED's which are going over and way beyond the 100lumen/watt mark.
The efficiency of LED currently has a LOT to do w/ the design of an LED w/ a spacial pattern of 120 degrees vs 360 degrees for "tubes". More light is just "lost" than in an LED so even a lesser "watt" LED can create a more REAL capture and use of light.
Your not putting a light in the middle of the aquarium but to one side. directionality is your friend.

LED's will not last forever (no light does) and will gradually decay like any other light source. Slower than many,about the same for a few. Key here is heat management. Poor heat management (by either cooling directly or under-driving so as to not generate that much to begin with) will drastically reduce the diode useable lifespan.
Technically Lumen Maintenance in LED's is only marginally better than tubes BUT practically it seems to be not so simple. 









Who runs tubes for 5 years even though "statistically" the lumen output is still fine?
(note though there are conflicting charts as to lumen maintenance w/ florescent equaling or bettering LED) 
(Note 2: Who believes industry will spend gobs of money on increasing lifespan of tubes"?)

ALMOST ALL power supplies are the weakest link (short of the filament in your incandescents) and prone to failure. I have boxes of "lifetime" computer power supplies to attest to that. 
But they are also cheap. This includes the one in your LED and the "ballast" in the fluorescents.
LED controllers are simple low power solid state devices and should last a long time. As long as any other modern component.

I probably can think of a few more but would prefer to move to the REAL plusses of LED's

Spectrum variation and tailoring.

Ease of programming for multiple things i.e color/intensity/duration/ LED's are capable of unlimited variations in THE easiest (and really less costly) way of manipulation.

Simplicity. most LED arrays are simple "bulb strings" w/ resistors and a power supply. The other major variation is a power supply and driver (simplistic durable beast) and strings, no resistors.

Compactness and durable. No bulky or easily broke tubes bulbs.

Some energy savings possible, generally longer lived and less (arguable) pollutants.

Prices are really crashing.

Which tech you choose is based on what you want to get out of your lighting. From efficiency to look.
ANY light will grow things..

As to the wave of the future? Certainly more than any increasing in the output of old tech. 
There is always another wave waiting though. 

Small SMD LED's can be wholesaled for 2 cents each.. 



> Ultra Bright Yellow 0.5W SMT SMD Diode Chip Light Emitting Diode 5630 LED


one cent to 3 cents each in bulk..


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Point is how long it will live is based on how well it is made. And of course things are not made very well anymore, in general.



As Jeffkrol points out, quality is down. Also, in a lot of cases, inferior materials have to be used because the EPA or others have outlawed the effective materials.

Even thought I reside in California, I'm a long way from being a "tree hugger". However the waste of some of these products is something else to consider. Ballasts, fluorescent tubes and CFL's are all considered hazardous waste. There's also the manufacturing side to consider. How many fluorescent tubes do you dispose of over the life of your tank? So far, all I've had to dispose of from my leds is the packaging they came in.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Kubla said:


> As Jeffkrol points out, quality is down. Also, in a lot of cases, inferior materials have to be used because the EPA or others have outlawed the effective materials.
> 
> Even thought I reside in California, I'm a long way from being a "tree hugger". However the waste of some of these products is something else to consider. Ballasts, fluorescent tubes and CFL's are all considered hazardous waste. There's also the manufacturing side to consider. How many fluorescent tubes do you dispose of over the life of your tank? So far, all I've had to dispose of from my leds is the packaging they came in.


don't leave out basic Chinese "planned obsolescence" 
Regarding those power supplies. See "capacitor plague"


though wiki deems it "was a problem" I'd argue still is a problem..

Only they have made it an "art"...


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## alcimedes (Dec 7, 2014)

I've had a number of CurrentUSA fixtures fail on me, where the power converter is the part that craps out, or a bank of LED lights will fail after just over a year. I no longer buy their fixtures. (plus I found they tended to cause brown algae prohblems in my tanks, whereas a different light over the same photoperiod will have no algae problems.)

Of all the brands I've purcahsed and tried, my personal ranking would be:

1. BML. 

Pros: Great spectrum, great quality, great color on both plants and fish.
Cons: Pricey

2. Ecooxotic.

Pros: Great plant growth, great quality.
Cons: Price is a bit high, color spectrum wasn't as 'full' as on the BML lights, but they may offer more varieties for planted tanks these days.

3. Finnex.

Pros: Great price
Cons: Plant growth isn't as robust as the other two fixtures, can't attest to the quality yet, I like to own something more than a year before going down that road. For the price though you can buy two Finnex fixtures for the price of one BML fixture.

4. T5's

Pros: well established tech, cheap up-front cost, able to change light spectrum by swapping out bulbs.
Cons: more energy usage, should be replacing bulbs at least every year, long term expenses due to bulb replacements.

Anything else is just off the list, and I haven't even bothered picking up _free_ T5 fixtures, just due to the long term energy usage and bulb replacement costs.


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## Timmy!! (Jun 26, 2014)

Curt_914 said:


> Timmy,
> 
> What fixtures do you have? And what brand is the fixture that you have that is a year okd?


I have mostly finnex. Ray 2 is my favorite

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Leds are more and more the way to go, however if you want quality leds for large/deep tanks and good intensity it costs a lot, and the so called 50000 hours of leds life alone is not enough to convince investing. Many parts can fail on a led fixture, even the leds themselves. T5HO can stilll be better for tanks with a lot of depth, let's say 24" or more. Well from my personal opinion.

I wish more companies would give 2 years warranty or more on leds, however the technology is still young and improving.

My tank is 24" deep, i have Finnex Ray 2 DS 7000K, it is a disappointment for me. However it did not cost a lot and it is not bad at all, it's just that i do not get the intensity i want. Soon i will invest in another company.

If the tank is 18" or less deep, i think the leds are really interesting. It is easier to lit when the tank is smaller.

Michel.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

I've had them CFLs NOT work straight out of the package. And I've yet to have any give me the full life span stated.

I use T-8 shop lights and buy the bulk cartons of 4' 6500-6700 K bulbs. Over all that has been the best deal for me. I've considered going all LED but have found that, even having the highest power rates in the southeast it still would at best be a break even. Sure I could do all that ramping and color customizing and it probably is cool to be able to do it. But do I need it? Nope. My plants seem to be doing just fine. 

BTW if you're doing it to be eco friendly forget it. The manufacturing process is pretty polluting. 

LED bulbs not as eco-friendly as some might think

There are a myriad of other articles out there that also back it up.

BTW I looked last month at going solar on my house. I mean come on I live in the "Sunshine State". Just to be able to have power during the day it's over $27,000. I can't take advantage of the "tax break" so I'd have to foot the total bill. I'd never even break even given the lifespan of solar. 

No. I wasn't looking at solar for eco reasons. I want to be able to power more fish tanks without breaking the electric "bank".


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

GraphicGr8s said:


> I've had them CFLs NOT work straight out of the package. And I've yet to have any give me the full life span stated.
> 
> I use T-8 shop lights and buy the bulk cartons of 4' 6500-6700 K bulbs. Over all that has been the best deal for me. I've considered going all LED but have found that, even having the highest power rates in the southeast it still would at best be a break even. Sure I could do all that ramping and color customizing and it probably is cool to be able to do it. But do I need it? Nope. My plants seem to be doing just fine.
> 
> ...


Is that $27K for the whole house or just the fish house or both?


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Bushkill said:


> Is that $27K for the whole house or just the fish house or both?


That is for both. The fish house would have a set of panels and so would the barn. I didn't want anything on the house roof.

But that is just for daylight hours. And the warranty on the inverter is only 10 years. Adding a battery bank would add significantly more to the cost but I would be off the grid. And while I could sell power back it is at a much lower rate than what they charge me. 

After what I've found out solar is great. If you qualify for the handout.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Good luck selling power back. That is highly dependent on your power company and what time of the day you sell power back. They likely only want excess power during peak hours, 3pm-5pm (ish). 

I'm not entirely sold on LEDs. I know plenty of people love them as lights and when it comes to a single, small, tank, they are probably a great option.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Freemananana said:


> I'm not entirely sold on LEDs. I know plenty of people love them as lights and when it comes to a single, small, tank, they are probably a great option.


Actually for large tanks (except for the cost factor) they are inherently (but arguably) better than other light sources.
More size choices (bulbs are limited to a few dimensions and really getting less and less as demand starts to dry up)
more control of spectrum, better targeting (concentration and spill) w/ lenses, less overall heat and of course shimmer....
Theoretically lower maintenance costs. Less fragile..

LED light bulbs: Comparison charts - Eartheasy.com Solutions for Sustainable Living


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I was comparing a 5-10 gallon tank (very common in planted tanks) to a 75/90g. The LED clip on lights compared to a couple of 48" fixtures is a very real cost difference. I could have medium-high light in my tank for the exact same cost as low light with spiral CFLs. The heat output is negligible in my experience. With 4 shop lights and a light on my sump, for 8 hours a day, in the heat of Florida summer, I experienced a high of 80* in my tank. I had it around 76-78* for reference. My $50 lighting solution has worked well for me. This year I will likely need to purchase new bulbs, about $10. The cost isn't something I've noticed on my bill, but I am curious and I may purchase something to read the KWH consumed by my tank.

I'm just won over by the easily adjusted and cheap option of CFLs. LEDs are far too expensive in the aquarium hobby for what they actually bring to the table. LEDs are quite cheap to manufacture, I don't understand some of the prices of the high end brands. 

As always, this is my opinion and is really only reflective of a short time in the hobby.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Freemananana said:


> I'm just won over by the easily adjusted and cheap option of CFLs. LEDs are far too expensive in the aquarium hobby for what they actually bring to the table. LEDs are quite cheap to manufacture, I don't understand some of the prices of the high end brands.
> 
> As always, this is my opinion and is really only reflective of a short time in the hobby.





> “The only thing C.F.L.s had going for them for a number of years is that they were a lot cheaper,” said Jesse Foote, a lighting industry analyst at Navigant, a research and consulting firm.
> “The cost difference at this point is not big enough to really justify the rest of the differences,” he said.
> Last year, Navigant estimated 355 million compact fluorescents and 11.3 million LEDs were sold for North American homes. The firm had forecast that residential compact fluorescent sales would fall by 4.5 percent a year, to 234 million by 2023, and that LED sales would grow 38.3 percent annually in the same period, to 210 million. But given the recent fast price drops, Mr. Foote said he would expect the change to accelerate.
> 
> ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/b...competitive-with-fluorescent-lights.html?_r=0

What you may need to think about is, considering the market size do you think they are selling LED at a large premium? not likely. Some of course but it would only take one manuf to cut wholesale and make it up in volume..

also "just" using the diode is like saying the filiment in a bulb is cheap.. not the whole story..
Diodes in a 88 diode Ray II probably, at hte most, costs them $4.. but it is only "part" of a light.. Like asking how
cheap is the "Tube only" in a CF


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## Curt_914 (Oct 6, 2007)

So I am going to give the Finnex planted + 24/7 a shot. The determineing factor for me is the cost, it is the same as getting new bulbs for my t-5. I also clean up the need for a powerstrip and multiple timers. My t-5 fixture is nice but the supply is drying up for these fixtures, and i may as well get with the times. I will keep everyone posted as to how my decision plays out.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/b...competitive-with-fluorescent-lights.html?_r=0
> 
> What you may need to think about is, considering the market size do you think they are selling LED at a large premium? not likely. Some of course but it would only take one manuf to cut wholesale and make it up in volume..
> 
> ...


A fun read. I was being quite specific when I said over priced in the aquarium hobby. There are a lot of niche hobbies that are expensive because they have a monopoly on the pricing.

As someone who works in the lighting industry, I can tell you that LEDs are still a long way out. The competition (HPS/MH) is far cheaper at the moment. Also, I'm not a fan of GE.
@Curt_914: Good choice. I'm sure you'll be happy with it. The dimmable setting is a big draw for me towards that light. Some have had success with the 24/7 mode though.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Freemananana said:


> As someone who works in the lighting industry, I can tell you that LEDs are still a long way out. The competition (HPS/MH) is far cheaper at the moment. Also, I'm not a fan of GE.


The competition has many known weaknesses, besides pricing.

That said, there are weaknesses in LED besides pricing, but most are implementation/geometry issues, not in the basic tech..
DOE publishes Gateway outdoor lighting reports on Princeton University and Philadelphia airport - LEDs
How Big Can The LED Lighting Market Get? - Informationshow-??????????

How do plug-and-play T8s stack up against ballast-bypass LED lamps? - Informationshow-??????????


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm sure it does, but a 100w HPS decorative light cost $126 and the same light in LED cost $1,778. It is hard to argue many weaknesses when you have a huge cost difference like this. These are street lights by the way. Quite similar to something you'd see downtown in your local city. 

LEDs will come down, in price, when major municipalities start to use them.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Freemananana said:


> LEDs will come down, in price, when major municipalities start to use them.


Our "small town" of 30000 has already replaced the HPS's w/ LED's on a few main streets.


not sure where you are buying your lights from though..


> "an LED fixture installed on a residential street light in Los Angeles, in 2009, cost an average of $432, illuminated at 42 lumens/watt, lasted 80,000 hours, and came with a 5-year warranty. By the end of 2012, that same fixture cost an average of $245, illuminated at 81 Lm/W, lasted at least 150,000 hours, and came with a 7-year warranty. "


http://www.forbes.com/sites/justing...tes-worlds-largest-led-street-light-retrofit/




> The first cost of an LED street light conversion will require a significant capital outlay. LED
> lights are considerably (2-4 times) more expensive than conventional HID “cobra


http://www.leotek.com/education/documents/Leotek.LED.Streetlight.Guide.V7-101613.pdf
http://aceee.org/files/proceedings/2012/data/papers/0193-000144.pdf


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

They are holophane lights. The small town I work for, about 21,000, has several LED lights in the downtown area. This is where this anecdote came from.

We recently replaced our loading dock lights with LEDs. They were around $300 a fixture. They are utility fixtures, not the decorative ones I was previously referencing. The lights they replaced were 100w HPS lights, $30 a piece (dusk to dawn/nema, commonly available at hardware stores). 

We purchase our lights in bulk from the manufacturers or, at the very least, vendor representatives for the manufacturer. We buy from just about all the big names.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Freemananana said:


> They are holophane lights. The small town I work for, about 21,000, has several LED lights in the downtown area. This is where this anecdote came from.
> 
> We recently replaced our loading dock lights with LEDs. They were around $300 a fixture. They are utility fixtures, not the decorative ones I was previously referencing. The lights they replaced were 100w HPS lights, $30 a piece (dusk to dawn/nema, commonly available at hardware stores).
> 
> We purchase our lights in bulk from the manufacturers or, at the very least, vendor representatives for the manufacturer. We buy from just about all the big names.


At $1778 I suspect some "gouging" or they bought them from the Mayors brother/sister.. 

so let me get this straight, you used an overpriced decorator LED to try to prove LED's are "expensive"??
At least "try" to stick w/ similar things.. As to the 30/300 thing. Cheapest "retail' HPS at the local "Menards" is $80, not $30 
https://www.menards.com/main/outdoo...C1BFE43C2BEECC44.eklka-prodapp3-external-mcom

I will concede the fact that LEd's are still sig. more expensive lumen/lumen than old tek..
https://www.energyavenue.com/GE/21259?gclid=CO6Y1ZHMlckCFQkuaQodd4YEkA

and few, IF anyone will get this:


> Saves over $1,430 over the course of its rated life


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> so let me get this straight, you used an overpriced decorator LED to try to prove LED's are "expensive"??
> At least "try" to stick w/ similar things.. As to the 30/300 thing. Cheapest "retail' HPS at the local "Menards" is $80, not $30
> https://www.menards.com/main/outdoor-lights/security/150-watt-high-pressure-sodium-yard-light/outdoor-security-lighting/patriot-lighting-150-watt-high-pressure-sodium-yard-light/p-1444426732817.htm;jsessionid=71382BC26FADF2BEC1BFE43C2BEECC44.eklka-prodapp3-external-mcom


The overpriced LED is the comparable light to what we currently use as a decorative fixture. So yes, I did use it haha. I was comparing it to a decorative light that would have been used if the LEDs were not purchased. 

As for the price of Menards' light, we do get huge discounts compared to them. The dusk to dawn light can be bought at Lowes for sure, I've seen them there. Our price is $30. 

I can only speak for our pricing. Everything goes out for bid through multiple companies to offer their best price and delivery time. My personal work experience is a large part of why I believe LEDs are overpriced.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

A "local" company (my state at least).. Made in the USA...

Just for fun.

95w LED, 26" Cobrahead Apollo, 120-277v w/ 480v Option, 13293 Nominal Lumens, 200-400w HID Replace, USA Made

i suppose it would be 1/2 that if made w/ Chinese slave labor..


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## pucksr (Jan 27, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Which tech you choose is based on what you want to get out of your lighting. From efficiency to look.
> ANY light will grow things..


We can do some really quick math. 
Finnex Ray2 vs 3 T5
39W vs 84W
$170 vs $120+$15*(2)=$150
_Energy Costs over 5 years(4380 [email protected]$0.10/kWh)
_$17 vs $37
Total
$187 vs $187

Over the rated warranty period you will literally break even.
Now, a couple of quick advantages. The LED fixture will be cooler which MIGHT have advantages if you live in a hot state.
The LED will also look MUCH brighter. White LEDs are always significant in the green spectrum. They look brighter because your eyes are more sensitive to green light. Even if the plants are getting the same light, the aquarium will "pop" more.
Finally, the LED fixture is physically smaller. This gives you a lot of really neat options as far as placement and location.



Curt_914 said:


> I am in a quandry at the moment. I have a planted tank and am trying to get back into this hobby. Led has intreagued me for a few years due to a couple reasons. Their low power consumption and there suposed longevity(40,000)+ hours. This would mean 5-7 years before having to replace a light. Now I see all these companys going to strictly LED, and phaseing out Metal Halide, Compact flourcent, T-5 etc... but we all still have these fixtures, and guess what they still work! Now I have been doing some limited research and found that LED may not last as long as reported. Why do I say this? Well companys that used to put warente's of 1-5 years on fixtures, no only put 6 month warentees on productsand I have read many extended reviews that have said, this fixture is awesome.... for the first month. Or after the warentee ran out my light died... and now I have to replace it.
> 
> So if a product the has a life expectancy of 5-7 years falls flat in 4 months, whats up with that. I also cannot seem to find users of Led fixtures that post any updates on products after the 3 month mark. Why is this? I really want to support LED but am having a hard time justifying the jump, as people I know all say the same thing, their cool but stick with your t-5... Is this just because it is an untried technology, orthat LED is just a gimmick.


Curt,
I have had my LED rig for 3 years. Still looks great. I did a DIY rig. My biggest issue was that I had some corrosion because of humidity that killed some LEDs. This would have happened with any fixture

As far as reduced warranty, there are a couple of issues at play here.
1) Thermal Management: You might be seeing some LED bulbs by Cree that have recently reduced their warranty period. Cree has discovered that people prefer low price point rather than reliability. Reliability in LED bulbs is determined by heat mitigation. The hotter the LED the shorter the life. Heat management is very expensive. It also increases the size of your LED array.
2) Cheaper components: LED lights are really made up of two components. A diode(the LED) and a control circuit. The control circuit can be a single chip or a rather complex circuit with a robust feedback design. The complexity of this control circuit determines the final cost of the product. It also determines the life of the LED fixture. Cheaper control circuits are more prone to over-driving the diode and killing the LED prematurely, but they save on cost and are easier to implement. They are also more likely to use cheaper capacitors(as was discussed earlier). Capacitors are fixed lifespan devices. Some last longer than others. You can save a lot of money by buying cheaper ones.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> A "local" company (my state at least).. Made in the USA...
> 
> Just for fun.
> 
> ...


We carry the 250w HPS Cobrahead, $101. Where it is made, I couldn't tell you. But I don't trust the 'Made in America' stamp like I use to! Mostly because of car manufacturers and the loop holes present.


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