# What causes BBA?



## AshleyO (Jan 8, 2010)

I get BBA when I let my CO2 run out. I think lack of carbon is usually the problem. When I get the CO2 level back up to 30ppm the BBA stops spreading but it doesn't die. I'd try to manually remove as much of the BBA as you can and hope the Excel can get the rest. Try dosing the Excel religiously for another few weeks and see if that helps.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AshleyO said:


> I get BBA when I let my CO2 run out. I think lack of carbon is usually the problem. When I get the CO2 level back up to 30ppm the BBA stops spreading but it doesn't die. I'd try to manually remove as much of the BBA as you can and hope the Excel can get the rest. Try dosing the Excel religiously for another few weeks and see if that helps.


I have been doing the prescribed excel dosing. I know that overdosing will kill the BBA, but I would rather not risk my fish, and I have anacharis and a couple other sensitive plants, that I would rather not melt. I have started a small amount of Hydrogen peroxide shots at the four leaf clover to help clear that up, it is the worst off of my plants. I need to fix the problem before I can do any heavy treatments to get rid of it.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Light is what "causes" algae more than any other thing. High light encourages algae to grow, just as it does plants. If you get BBA you can generally say you don't have low light, but may have high light. So, the first thing to do with BBA is reduce the light intensity, and reduce the length of time the lights are on. Or, if you find you need that much light, then you also need to use pressurized CO2, running it at the optimum concentration.

I think, but without any proof, that once you get BBA spores in an aquarium you have a continuing battle to keep BBA from growing everywhere there is a lot of light. And, because light intensity drops off approximately with the square of the distance from the light, even if you have low light at the substrate, you probably have high light up near the water surface. I have always noticed that BBA likes to grow on filter tubes at the top of the tank. You can only avoid that by using a light fixture suspended quite a ways above the top of the tank, so the water higher up in the tank doesn't get high light.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> Light is what "causes" algae more than any other thing. High light encourages algae to grow, just as it does plants. If you get BBA you can generally say you don't have low light, but may have high light. So, the first thing to do with BBA is reduce the light intensity, and reduce the length of time the lights are on. Or, if you find you need that much light, then you also need to use pressurized CO2, running it at the optimum concentration.
> 
> I think, but without any proof, that once you get BBA spores in an aquarium you have a continuing battle to keep BBA from growing everywhere there is a lot of light. And, because light intensity drops off approximately with the square of the distance from the light, even if you have low light at the substrate, you probably have high light up near the water surface. I have always noticed that BBA likes to grow on filter tubes at the top of the tank. You can only avoid that by using a light fixture suspended quite a ways above the top of the tank, so the water higher up in the tank doesn't get high light.


With my Coralife fixture using 2 T-5 NO bulbs, and the standard fixture using 1 T-8 bulb, could that be pushing me into a high light cat? The algae is growing on my 4 leaf clover, including the bunch that is slightly shaded. I never would have guessed that was what was happening. My lighting period is 10 hours at the moment. The areas closest to the light do not have any of the BBA growing, but do have a light amount of Staghorn, which is not getting better, but not getting worse. The tank is 21" deep as well. 

Thanks for the reply hoppy, you have been great help in the past


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

After looking carefully at the Algae at the bottom of the tank, it very well might be Staghorn there too instead of BBA. The strands are at the edges of my slow growers, it does not get very dense. Some of the leaves look like they have been peppered. I would post pictures, but the only Camera I have access to at the moment is my Iphone.


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## AshleyO (Jan 8, 2010)

Ug, staghorn is the worst. Anything I've ever done to kill it kills the plants first. How's the water flow in the areas with the staghorn? I always have problems with it popping up in dead zones. In non-CO2 tanks I am able to prevent staghorn by rearranging the hardscape in ways that allow for better water flow.

EDIT - I'm sorry, I should clarify what I meant about carbon. Light is usually the cause of algae but lack of carbon allows it to outcompete plants. Until you find a way to get enough carbon to your plants you'll continue to have problems with algae in a high light tank.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AshleyO said:


> Ug, staghorn is the worst. Anything I've ever done to kill it kills the plants first. How's the water flow in the areas with the staghorn? I always have problems with it popping up in dead zones. In non-CO2 tanks I am able to prevent staghorn by rearranging the hardscape in ways that allow for better water flow.
> 
> EDIT - I'm sorry, I should clarify what I meant about carbon. Light is usually the cause of algae but lack of carbon allows it to outcompete plants. Until you find a way to get enough carbon to your plants you'll continue to have problems with algae in a high light tank.


so with the light I am providing, it is pushing my tank into the high light catagory?

I just moved my power head to change the flow in the tank. There were a couple dead spots, though none where the algae is growing.


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## AshleyO (Jan 8, 2010)

I guess I wouldn't call it high light but with anything over 2wpg I start having algae issues in non-CO2 tanks. My definition of "high light" is probably a lot different than the super tank masters.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Technically I am at 1.5 watts per gal. I know with T-5 bulbs you really have to throw out the watt per gallon rule. That is why I am a bit confused why I suddenly have such strange algae problems.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I don't know if you have high light or not. If I were to guess, just from your description of the lighting, I would say you don't. But, BBA is much more likely to show up in a high light tank than a low light one, as far as I know. And, it is less likely to show up if you have good CO2 concentration and good distribution of the CO2 throughout the tank. Also, if you are very strict about keeping your tank clean, the substrate clean, the filter clean, and you do regular big water changes, you are less likely to have BBA. But, my moments of BBA-free tanks were much briefer than my time with BBA, so I am hardly an expert on controlling BBA.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> I don't know if you have high light or not. If I were to guess, just from your description of the lighting, I would say you don't. But, BBA is much more likely to show up in a high light tank than a low light one, as far as I know. And, it is less likely to show up if you have good CO2 concentration and good distribution of the CO2 throughout the tank. Also, if you are very strict about keeping your tank clean, the substrate clean, the filter clean, and you do regular big water changes, you are less likely to have BBA. But, my moments of BBA-free tanks were much briefer than my time with BBA, so I am hardly an expert on controlling BBA.


Thanks for the reply Hoppy. If I had the money I would run out and get myself a CO2 system. I might give the DIY system a try and see, I have upped my dosing of Excel to see if that helps some, I was doing it every other day due to my Anacharis, but I would rather loose it than have this stuff all over my tank. I think it had hitchhiked on a plant when it was placed in my 10 gal. The Staghorn or BBA never really took hold, and I was able to easily control it. This is a whole other story in the 36 gal. I started doing spot hitting of my worst areas with Hydrogen peroxide. I have been doing abou 30% water changes weekly, and doing regular matinence on my canister filter. I will be removing the HOB filter I used to seed the tank here next week.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Every time I had staghorn it was in conjunction with BBA. I upped the Co2 and the problem was solved.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

When I was battling BBA I found that squirting Excel onto BBA would make it turn reddish purple and die, but mixed in with the reddish purple would often be bright red staghorn algae, also killed by the Excel. I never noticed the staghorn algae otherwise, but apparently it was there with the BBA.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I think they like the same conditions. The Excel is a great way to spot treat both algae. Both will eventually go away with the condition that caused it being corrected but the excel is a great way to get some instang algae killing gratification. 



Hoppy said:


> When I was battling BBA I found that squirting Excel onto BBA would make it turn reddish purple and die, but mixed in with the reddish purple would often be bright red staghorn algae, also killed by the Excel. I never noticed the staghorn algae otherwise, but apparently it was there with the BBA.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> When I was battling BBA I found that squirting Excel onto BBA would make it turn reddish purple and die, but mixed in with the reddish purple would often be bright red staghorn algae, also killed by the Excel. I never noticed the staghorn algae otherwise, but apparently it was there with the BBA.


I have been trying the H2O2 method the past few days, well its not going to well. Guess I will try Excel right on the algae. I would love to add a pressurized CO2 system to the tank, but money is VERY tight at this point. Maybe this week I can talk the family into drinking a couple 2 liter bottles of pop lol


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## GTR (May 27, 2009)

Even under perfect conditions it will be a long wait to have BBA go away without some spot treating or removal. So it's difficult to see if you're making any headway.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

GTR said:


> Even under perfect conditions it will be a long wait to have BBA go away without some spot treating or removal. So it's difficult to see if you're making any headway.


So it may be that by starting the very regular dosing of Excel that I may have solved the underlaying issues of lack/inconstant carbon for the plants, but will not see the results for quite some time?


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

I have a 75gallon, no substrate, egg crate with shells and rocks for my Tangy Cichlids. I had a stock 18W strip light on it for a year. Since I have shell dweller fry in the tank, I did 50% water changes most weeks. Eventually, light got old, and I had multiple kinds of algae growing on the shells, BBA, GSA and green cyano. It was really unsightly, really ugly. Three months ago I added java fern and anubias tied to driftwood and shells to the tank and added riparium plants. I also have replaced the standard strip light with a Catalina 3x54w T5HO fixture. Two lights are on 10 hours a day with the 3rd light on noon burst 3 hours. I started dosing EI w/faithful 50% water changes every week. I also add Excel in recommended doses. The green cyano disappeared within the first month. The BBA followed. I still have some GSA on the glass (none left on the shells or rocks) and some brown fuzz on the shells. The improvement in the tank was even noticable to my 14 yr old. He's never commented on any of my tanks. All these changes I made because I listened to what everyone said on TPT. Follow what you read here, and you're sure to have a healthy, beautiful tank.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I highly doubt that dosing Excel to the tank (not the algae directly) will cause it to go away if you dont raise the co2 or cut back the lighting intensity/duration (raising/shortening the photoperiod).



Noahma said:


> So it may be that by starting the very regular dosing of Excel that I may have solved the underlaying issues of lack/inconstant carbon for the plants, but will not see the results for quite some time?


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## Justshoe (Aug 17, 2008)

I have tried the typical overdose of excel and that never seemed to work. I have a fairly high light 20g with press co2 at fairly optimum levels. I've tried raising and lowering co2 levels for 1 months periods with no success. BBA just comes back. I think im going with the 10:1 excel spray bottle idea during water changes directly on the suspect algae. I had this issue in my 44G and used h202. It took care of the bba very quickly but also took care of my o' 30 or so 5' plus giant vals...that was a sorry loss....no more h202 for me.
and if your wondering that was a 20ml treatment of h202 into 44gals.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Justshoe said:


> I have tried the typical overdose of excel and that never seemed to work. I have a fairly high light 20g with press co2 at fairly optimum levels. I've tried raising and lowering co2 levels for 1 months periods with no success. BBA just comes back. I think im going with the 10:1 excel spray bottle idea during water changes directly on the suspect algae. I had this issue in my 44G and used h202. It took care of the bba very quickly but also took care of my o' 30 or so 5' plus giant vals...that was a sorry loss....no more h202 for me.
> and if your wondering that was a 20ml treatment of h202 into 44gals.


I tried the H2O2 and it did not do squat lol. The Excel spot dosing is doing a great job. Though I fear the algae is growing faster than I can kill it lol. The big problems seem to be surprise near the light. The stuff lower is growing at a very very slow speed, and I can take care of that easy. As soon as my wife gives me the nod I think I will order some Nerite snails to help out a bit.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

I would try removing the T8 light and reduce the time the T5s are on to maybe 8 hours. continue with the Excel.


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## witzkeyman (Apr 28, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> Light is what "causes" algae more than any other thing. High light encourages algae to grow, just as it does plants. If you get BBA you can generally say you don't have low light, but may have high light. So, the first thing to do with BBA is reduce the light intensity, and reduce the length of time the lights are on. Or, if you find you need that much light, then you also need to use pressurized CO2, running it at the optimum concentration.
> 
> I think, but without any proof, that once you get BBA spores in an aquarium you have a continuing battle to keep BBA from growing everywhere there is a lot of light. And, because light intensity drops off approximately with the square of the distance from the light, even if you have low light at the substrate, you probably have high light up near the water surface. I have always noticed that BBA likes to grow on filter tubes at the top of the tank. You can only avoid that by using a light fixture suspended quite a ways above the top of the tank, so the water higher up in the tank doesn't get high light.


so true, if I move my metal halides up towards the front of the tank and dose with a little Excel in addition to my regular CO2, the algae goes away at the back of the tank. one question though, does a good flow of water help from an extra powerhead? just curious, because I just purchased one, and it's in the mail.


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## fibertech (Apr 29, 2009)

Dosing in the tank does not work. You have to spray directly for it to kill the algae. I have tried both methods many times


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

As I stated before, dosing recommended amounts of Excel AND IE with regular WC's worked for me. I never sprayed directly on the algae.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

fibertech said:


> Dosing in the tank does not work. You have to spray directly for it to kill the algae. I have tried both methods many times


I have been doing direct dosing right on the algae, and with the plants getting some form of carbon, and regular ferts, the algae is not getting worse. Now I just have to coax my amanos into eating the dead algae lol.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

You might want to look into dosing small amounts of Macros as well as Micro Fertilizers. Strong plants are more resistant to algae. If I'm not careful, I get BBA on the silicone and substrate but rarely get it on the plants. I still think you should try losing the T8 light.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

I took some photo's of BBA obtained from the tank of a friend. The little bumps on the strands are called Sporangia, the structure that produces the spores this stuff reproduces by.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

jerrytheplater said:


> I took some photo's of BBA obtained from the tank of a friend. The little bumps on the strands are called Sporangia, the structure that produces the spores this stuff reproduces by.


wow, great picture. I have BBA on the run now. It pops up from time to time on the slow growing plants, but the huge explosion of it is over with.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Noahma said:


> So it may be that by starting the very regular dosing of Excel that I may have solved the underlaying issues of lack/inconstant carbon for the plants, but will not see the results for quite some time?


Yes. Trim covered leaves, clean equipment, harscape, etc. Spot treat what's left with excel/h202 and address the root problem (high light for the co2 level). That should be that.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I still think H202 is underrated for spot treating BBA. Much, much cheaper and much harder to kill your fish.


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