# Please help! I'm desperate ):



## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

It's been almost 4 months I have this algae problem.
The tank is already 1 year old and I can't understand what's I'm doing wrong...?!

The tank is 540lt, 60x60x150cm, injection co2 5 hours a day, around 25-30ppm (indicator is light green/yellow), 2 external filters 2200lt/h each, 2 led lights for planted aquarium 100w each, hanged 40cm above the tank (see photos).
Photoperiod- 19:00-01:00.
Fertilization with method EI- 
3 days a week- 
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4

In the others days- 
CSM+B

Once a week- I change 50% of the water.
Filters I clean monthly.
I have 7 Altum.

I did a black out 2 weeks ago (cover the tank for 72h with garbage plastic bags) 
It helps but the algae did impressive comeback.....):

Any help will be highly appreciated!

Thanks!


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## Bradkey Bunch (May 20, 2017)

What is it stocked with


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Ok what is your GH. Need to ensure you have enough Calcium and Magnesium. Also you say 25-30ppm co2. How is the flow in your tank? Very very important good flow to ensure the co2 gets distributed throughout the entire tank. This is generally a very big reason for issues like this. Also what is your co2 level by the time the lights come on? You should be at the 25-30ppm level by the time the lights come on. If not already place the drop checker at the opposite end of the tank where the co2 comes in to ensure that the level is the same furthest away.


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

Bradkey Bunch said:


> What is it stocked with
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




What do you mean?


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## Bradkey Bunch (May 20, 2017)

What fish and invertebrates are in the fish tank


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

clownplanted said:


> Ok what is your GH. Need to ensure you have enough Calcium and Magnesium. Also you say 25-30ppm co2. How is the flow in your tank? Very very important good flow to ensure the co2 gets distributed throughout the entire tank. This is generally a very big reason for issues like this. Also what is your co2 level by the time the lights come on? You should be at the 25-30ppm level by the time the lights come on. If not already place the drop checker at the opposite end of the tank where the co2 comes in to ensure that the level is the same furthest away.




GH- Hardness of the tap water based of what the municipality said is 8. 


The flow is very good! The 2 external filters are very strong and all the plants moving slowly.
The Co2 switched on an hour before the light. The indicator is green at this time. 
I can't increase much the CO2 as my fish are quietly big and suffers immediately. But for sure the CO2 is enough (based on the drop checker. He is already on the opposite side where the CO2 entering).


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

Bradkey Bunch said:


> What fish and invertebrates are in the fish tank
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




I have 7 altums and 10 corydoras.


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## Bradkey Bunch (May 20, 2017)

Ok have you tried the hydrogen peroxide method 
And corydorss do not clean algae as much as a sucker fish does
After the hydrogen peroxide (if you do it)
Add some otoclnclus about 5-10 since the size and how much there is of algae 


This may not work to fully get rid of algae most thing can't because algae will alway grow back


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

I've tried HP. Doesn't help.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

5hr photo period and 5hr co2... what are your co2 on and off times?

Dan


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Sorry forgot to also ask for parameters. What are your test results?

Dan


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

I cut My photoperiod because the algae.
The CO2 start one hour before they light goes on. 
When there is no light, I have air stone that working and stop one hour before the Co2 goes on.

Parameters, PH 6.5, the rest I don't know.
I live in Netherlands, the tap water comes from lakes and rivers.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Co2 1-2 hrs before lights on and off 1 hr before lights out. Without info on water parameters I'm not sure I can see a root cause. Maybe others could help.

Dan


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## Aquariareview (Jun 6, 2017)

Add 10 Nerite Snails ( they don't reproduce in fresh water). They eat algae all day and night.


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## mattenx (Nov 28, 2016)

Try dosing Excel Flourish. That worked for me.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

You need to get to the source or it will just keep coming back. I would cut back the lighting as this seems to be the number one cause. Make sure the plants are fed the proper amount of nutrients. You can add all the algae eaters and dose excel and stuff but unless you get to the source they will not be able to keep up when it gets really bad.


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

clownplanted said:


> You need to get to the source or it will just keep coming back. I would cut back the lighting as this seems to be the number one cause. Make sure the plants are fed the proper amount of nutrients. You can add all the algae eaters and dose excel and stuff but unless you get to the source they will not be able to keep up when it gets really bad.




I agree! This what I'm trying to figure out (the reason).
Photoperiod 5h would be ok? Or less?
Amount of ferts I'm following EI.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Are you able to dim those lights?

If so I would recommend dimming to somewhere between 40-60% and run them 6-7 hours.

Also you may be dosing too much CSM+B. Not certain about this, but you can see what happens if you stop dosing for a few weeks, then resume at a lower dose if your plants are not doing as well.

If you see improvements and the algae stops growing you can try an algaecide to kill off whatever is left given that you've corrected the cause. Or just trim off and remove affected plants.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

eranio said:


> I agree! This what I'm trying to figure out (the reason).
> Photoperiod 5h would be ok? Or less?
> Amount of ferts I'm following EI.


If the lights are too strong lowering the photoperiod would not be enough. You need to try and dim the lights.


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks guys! Unfortunately, I can't dim them....
To raise them 10cm more would be enough?
Or any other way to dim them DIY?


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

I checked with my led producer and the leds are dimmable. What I should buy to add in way I could dim them?

This is their power source-


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

eranio said:


> I checked with my led producer and the leds are dimmable. What I should buy to add in way I could dim them?
> 
> This is their power source-


What is the Watts and Volts of your light? One of these should work. As long as it fits. Looks like it may fit? 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PXKJT8G/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3FDT4EFAFCBMM&colid=1BDG13ZW993N6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FC04I8/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3DW8OA4ZHRHJW&colid=1BDG13ZW993N6
Looking at your pic the volt and watts it may not work. Does yours not have a specific dimmer for it that you can get?

Looking at it more I do not think what I listed will work. Those are typically for LED's. @jeffkrol and or @Kampo might well should be able to help. Hopefully they chime in.


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

I'm checking with the producer if he has dimmer for them.
The watts is 100 and volts is 220...could be?


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

eranio said:


> I'm checking with the producer if he has dimmer for them.
> The watts is 100 and volts is 220...could be?


I updated my above post so read that.

I sent a PM to @jeffkrol for his help.


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks! I appreciate that.
I'll wait their feedback.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

constant current drive w/ 27-35V output 3A
35x3 is 105W...

If it doesn't have dim wires on it it probably is not dimmable..

well in any normal way I know of..


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> constant current drive w/ 27-35V output 3A
> 35x3 is 105W...
> 
> If it doesn't have dim wires on it it probably is not dimmable..
> ...




Thanks!
Any idea how to dim it DIY??


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## JonA (Mar 8, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> constant current drive w/ 27-35V output 3A
> 35x3 is 105W...
> 
> If it doesn't have dim wires on it it probably is not dimmable..
> ...


All LED's are dimmable with a pulse width modulator.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

JonA said:


> All LED's are dimmable with a pulse width modulator.


Wasn't about the LED's but the driver.
If the setup was run constant voltage.. no problem..
Never did it and I believe CC drivers can be finicky..
Using a MOSFET on the LED out lines w/ a driver that wants to maintain a constant currrent creates a cyclical pattern of outputting max voltage (trying to meet current needs when led is in an off state )
and then decreasing voltage to the correct current/voltage range when mosfet is conducting..
GRANTED that is what drivers do internally but they are designed for it..

This is not unlike "hot plugging" LED's into some meanwell drivers which will (has been reported) fry your sting due to the slow response of the driver..
Outputs full voltage before correction for too long.. Occurs in ELN series if I remember correctly..

Quoting myself here from 3 years ago..Can't find the source....
My Lumia 5.2 / Jarduino Build - Page 7 - Reef Central Online Community


> I do know you can blow LED's by a "hot" string disconnect and reconnect because the driver tries to output max "I" by ramping the voltage up.. When you reconnect you can over-volt the LED's burning them out.. (at least that is how I understand this)


Bump:


eranio said:


> Thanks!
> Any idea how to dim it DIY??


I'd switch the driver..then do the dimming..
New 36v ps.. and LDD-h and a $3 PWM pot dimmer w/ the bypass wire attached to the gate of the internal MOSFET....
$30 or so..
Basics..









Same thing but w/ larger voltage output on the led's..








See this for details:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/1008498-manual-pwm-dimmer-ldd-h.html

Basic MOSFET dim circuit for led w/ constant voltage power supply..
You would need to add resistors to your "pucks" though..


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

Thank you! I'm on it!


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## JonRon (Jun 6, 2017)

Eranio,

I feel that the algae issue you are having may not be coming from your lights at all. You mentioned that you have had your Aquarium for one year now, and been dealing with algae for four months now. Unless, you just added new lights to your Aquarium four months ago, then that could be the issue.

My Suggestion would be to purchase a master test kit. JBL professional Testing Laboratory is an good test kit. I use it, and I have no issues with it. It messures pH, NH4, NO2, NO3, O2, SiO2, KH, GH, PO4, Fe, and CU. 

Something isn´t right though and we have to figure it out! You mentioned your water comes from lakes and rivers. Now, there could be an issue with the levels of Silicate (SiO2) inside of your Aquarium. This will cause a Brown coating of algae (diatoms). And this issue can reappear after water changes with higher levels of Silicate in water.

Lastly, you should check out this Website about the Redfield Ratio. This should give you some insight about your algae issue also. 
Free of algae with Redfield Ratio | Aquariumpagina's van Charles Buddendorf

Good luck on your tank, I hope it all works out for you.

Kind regards,

JonRon


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

I have chemical reagents kit but I have only PH, KH, GH and Nitrate.
PH- 7
KH-5
GH-8
Nitrate- 40ppm.


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

@jeffkrol

This dimmer will work?


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## JonRon (Jun 6, 2017)

Well, do what you can to get a better test kit. Here in Germany the JBL Professional test kit I bought was about € 75 give or take.

I see with your pH and KH you have about 15ppm of CO2. You are going to Need to get that as Close to 30ppm as possible. If you have a CO2 drop checker is the solution green? 
You could also Count how many bubbles per second your Counter is spitting out, then increase that number X 1.5 for a start.

This will lower the pH to possibly 6.8 which will be ok for your fish. and will give you nearly 30ppm of CO2

Secondly, this is a must to get rid of your algae. Your Nitrate Level is way to high, that shouldn´t exceed 20ppm, you may Need to Change the water a few times a week. Because, Nitrates will cause algae outbreaks.

Do not worry about your lights!! I feel thats not the Problem at all.

If I can still help you in any way please let me know.

JonRon

Bump: I read your first post again. And noticed your photoperiod was 6 hours, and CO2 injection was for 5 hours. Try increasing both light and CO2 to a total 8 hours.


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## JonRon (Jun 6, 2017)

Removing the Auto fish Feeder could help also. Feed by Hand small amounts. skip a few days of feeding too.


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

Hi JonRon,
Thanks for the help! I appreciate that! Noted about the CO2. I increased now the Co2 and I'll do 2-3 water changes weekly. Let's see what's going on...

Thanks again!


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

high bio load (lot of adult angels in that tank) plus EI ferts mean you probably have high and/or imbalanced nitrates/phosphates. along with too much light (probably) and not a ton of plant mass.

you really need a ton of healthy, growing plants (CO2, proper ferts, etc...) to maintain high light setup. once plants begin to struggle they will get crushed by algae given the abundance of light. especially if you have a ton of nutrients in the water column from fish / ferts. struggling plants caked in algae aren't going to take in the nutrients that they could if they were healthy and growing like crazy.

keep things tidy, consider cutting back on dosing, cut back the light until you can handle it


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

JonRon said:


> Well, do what you can to get a better test kit. Here in Germany the JBL Professional test kit I bought was about € 75 give or take.
> 
> I see with your pH and KH you have about 15ppm of CO2. You are going to Need to get that as Close to 30ppm as possible. If you have a CO2 drop checker is the solution green?
> You could also Count how many bubbles per second your Counter is spitting out, then increase that number X 1.5 for a start.
> ...


High nitrates especially at 40ppm alone will not cause algae. Show me a study where all other things equal and rising nitrates alone caused algae. However an imbalance of stuff especially if he is bottoming out of another nutrient including co2 then it very well could be an issue, so say he had high nitrates but low phosphates or others then for sure an issue. If for example you are at 40ppm nitrates and 2-4ppm phosphates that is not an issue and in fact my levels are just that many times and I am algae free. However an imbalance of stuff say high light and not enough co2 or another nutrient then without a doubt you will get algae. Its finding the imbalance that is the issue.

And the light and or co2 very well could be the issue. If too much light and not enough co2 and or nutrients that is bound to bring the algae.


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## JonRon (Jun 6, 2017)

I do apologize for leaving out PO4 in the discussion Clownplanted. I may have not provided enough Information to justify my case. All I was doing was giving Feedback to a fellow member. I included a link to Redfield Ratio in a Prior post to eranio, which explains the relationship between PO4 and NO3. 

Secondly, without any documentation of other Parameters, Im trying to help Eranio without him going out to spend Money on Things like new lights, and dimmers. Only a test kit to make sure his Parameters were in the right places.

You do have to agree with me though, He has had this Setup for a year now. and just These past four months had an issue with algae.
Therefore it is not his lights being too bright, and needing to place a dimmer on them.


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## Aquariareview (Jun 6, 2017)

Everybody is correct, you must get to the root cause. 

For a tank this size those angels are a large bio load. you may just need to increase water changes. make sure source water has a low nitrate level (RO). or you may need to reduce the amount of fish ( those are some very big fish) .

For the fish you have the tank is small.Fish that size need at least 50 gal each. Your tank should only contain 3 as your tank is around 140 gal. If you find a home for 4 fish your problems should disappear. 

In my opinion you have to much bioload. I put a tank in a bank in kona (in the 70s), 300 gal, natural sunlight, large wet dry filter, 5 altums 6 corys and 6 rainbows. more than 150 plants (microsorium, crypts and Anubias), ro water 30% change every Mon and Thur. 0% algae ever


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

eranio said:


> @*jeffkrol*
> 
> This dimmer will work?


Can't even begin to reccomend any parts. Our orig driver is 3A constant current 26-35V DC (approx).
Your light heads have multiple wires that don't seem "logical" ATM..

3A would imply they are splitting current between the 2 heads (1.5A each) since driving a single unit at 3A is somewhat unheard of..
Who makes the lights?
Can't read the name or what I can read gives zero results..


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Can't even begin to reccomend any parts. Our orig driver is 3A constant current 26-35V DC (approx).
> Your light heads have multiple wires that don't seem "logical" ATM..
> 
> 3A would imply they are splitting current between the 2 heads (1.5A each) since driving a single unit at 3A is somewhat unheard of..
> ...




This is the producer-
My led is the 100w one. I have 2 of those.

http://s.aliexpress.com/yyU3mYru


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## MAVERICKMAX (May 21, 2017)

stop doing EI dosing and just do simple flourish and flourish excel dosing as directed on the label ...helped with mine as in almost all algae is becoming red white and dying while plants are pearling like never before!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

eranio said:


> This is the producer-
> My led is the 100w one. I have 2 of those.
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yyU3mYru


OK, simple 100W series/parallel chip ... probably 10x10 so 3A/10 = 300mA per 10 diodes..

3 choices 
1) (preferred) Change to a dimmable driver.
Like this:
HVG-100-36B - MEAN WELL - TRC Electronics
slightly underrated at 2.65A BUT will 1)prolong the life of the chip and 2)Already "dim" you lamp..
There are tons of drivers like this on evil bay..Chinese copies..

The "B" is real important .. B series are dimmable w/ a simple pot dimmer. Or 0-10V or 10v PWM..

2) Mechanically shade the light head or the tank w/ screen.. 

3) TRY to dim it using a MOSFET on the output line side.
Beyond my expertise..


But its "possible" to use like this:

*5-36V Trigger E-Switch MOS FET Module Optocoupler isolation Driver for LED Motor*

The dimmer you listed attached to a 9-20Vpower supply and attaching the "outputs" to the signal positive, signal negative side..


you'd of course run the driver output to DC plus /minus/.. Other side to the light head..


5-36V and less than 5A is the FET rating on that.. Sorry no direct link but the bay will guide you..


note: I know of nobody who has ever PWM'd dimmed a constant current driver.. Theoretically see no real problem but there could be many things I'm not considering (like I said earlier about see/sawing the driver output..)


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks for sharing your know how @jeffkrol !
I appreciate that!


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

you dose EI micros with expensive Altums? That's insane since it harms them. It's pretty clear you're fertilizing excessive amounts of heavy metals and maybe macros if the fish are excreting enough N and P. Cut the heavy metals out and observe.


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## eranio (Aug 19, 2015)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> you dose EI micros with expensive Altums? That's insane since it harms them. It's pretty clear you're fertilizing excessive amounts of heavy metals and maybe macros if the fish are excreting enough N and P. Cut the heavy metals out and observe.



What are the quantities I need to put?


By the way- Harm them?! (;

2 months-










2 weeks ago (the fish are 40-45cm, 2y old)


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## Zmc7799 (May 23, 2017)

Aquariareview said:


> Add 10 Nerite Snails ( they don't reproduce in fresh water). They eat algae all day and night.


The nerite snails and oto' have gotten rid of the majority of my algae in my tank but remember with oto's they only eat algae so you have to have some in your tank


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