# Best substrate??



## foxbat426 (Jan 6, 2006)

Hi, Knowing what you know now and if you were just starting out aquascaping plant tanks, If you could pick one substrate what would it be and why? Would love to here your opinions as i'm just starting out.

Thanks John


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## chunkychun (Apr 6, 2012)

ada aquasoil if money is of no concern. by far best growth personal experience with Miracle grow organic potting soil, worm castings, and flourite. worm casting and flourite cap second and cheaper than ada aquasoil but not as good growth. MGOPS bubbled alot which i didn't like.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

"MGOPS" It's the second time I saw this. Can someone spell it out for me ?
A bit of info which you might like to ask those who respond to your question to
add to their snswer is how long did your special substrate last.
You may not mind changing the substrate each year. So if that is the case you can
skip that question for them.
Someone on here may have a chart that tells you which does how much of, but subs can take in nutrients when the water is full of them and release them when they get low in the water.
And some people just use pool filter sand cause they like the way it looks and they grow lots of and nice plants also.
I wish I had known about this forum before I started so I could have asked those questions before I spent my money on the sub. But please read in this section a lot before you make up your mind to get enough of all the info including how much maintenance is required of the tank/w each kind of sub.


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## NanoDave (Feb 25, 2013)

I think MGOPS stands for Miracal Grow Organic Potting Soil. Anyways it really depends on what kind of plants and fish you want to keep. I personally stay away from dirt and aqusoils or ADA stuff as it has too many negatives for me like anerobic bubbles with dirt and capping and aquasoil breaks down and turns to mud and you can't rescape without making a mess yada yada yada. I personally like ActivFlora as it's comes ready to go in the bag and you dont need to wash it like other substrates. It's also uniform in size and is solid black. I used to use Eco-Complete till after a year went buy all the small sized granuals settled to the bottom and now I have a bunch of unevenly colors "rocks" at the surface. That makes planting in it very hard when trying to scape and plant. The finer the substrate the easier it is to scape and plant. All rock based substrates are inert so don't believe the labels when they say it contains iron, potasium, nitrogen, yada yada yada. Yes ActivFlora comes with all that and yes it grows plants insanely fast from the beginning and I never dosed the tank but after a while all substrate will need to be dosed. You really want to think long term. Heck you can even pick up Diamond Black Blasting Sand from tracktor supply co for $8 a 50lb bag. or Play Sand from Home Depot for $4 a 50lb bag. Just be ready to dose with those imediatly and be prepared to wash them before use. I would love to see a substrate that grows plants as good as some of the big names like ada soil and aqua soil and fluval stratum but that won't break down after a few years. Hope all that rambling helps. Ultimately you ask 10 people on here their favorite you'll get 10 different answers as it's all preference. Do your reasearch on each product (especially long term use) and base your decision off your price range and what appeals to you.


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## Absolut Talent (Feb 5, 2014)

I have been weighing pros and cons for almost every possible substrate for my new tank. 
I needed something that would be good for plants, nice to look at, wont break down, not sharp because of my bottom dwellers that will be in the tank, and wont be a big issue with my filters. 

Right off the bat I elminated sand for use because I didnt want to deal with all the really fine particles in my filters and vac and the bad gas bubbles. 
Then i started to look at flourite because of the great reviews for plant growth. But its apparently pretty sharp at times and needs a good cleaning prior to use. 
Soil ive read and felt it would be too messy and time consuming for me

I came across the eco-complete. It sounded good. The black color was supposed to be good. I had thought this was going to be the one for me. 
Then I came across NanoDaves thread here
And after seeing what Eco-complete looks like after awhile, I became pretty turned off by it. That saved me an extra $60+ that I wouldve just replaced after awhile or be unhappy with

But I did like what that Activ-Flora does. It holds its color, is decent for plants, not quite fine enough to cause concern like sand does. NanoDave converted me to the activFlora wagon. 

There really is no "best" substrate. Each tank and person has their own needs. Some will swear by using Kitty Litter, others will rave about Flourite, and yet others will use nothing but potting soil. Knowing what you plan on doing with the tank will help recommend, but there is no "best". Just "better" for your particular application. 

Based on my own research and what is best for my needs, I will endorse Activ-Flora.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I prefer #4 blasting sand. It's about 4-6 times larger than regular sand but is still sand.
Equally as cheap as sand, does not need to be replaced.
But now you have me interested in this Activ-Flora. I have the Eco-Complete in one tank and haven't had that problem(yet after a year so far. I have Flourite in the other over that #4 blasting sand but just nutral on it.
So who sells this Activ-Flora ?


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Raymond S. said:


> I prefer #4 blasting sand. It's about 4-6 times larger than regular sand but is still sand.
> Equally as cheap as sand, does not need to be replaced.
> But now you have me interested in this Activ-Flora. I have the Eco-Complete in one tank and haven't had that problem(yet after a year so far. I have Flourite in the other over that #4 blasting sand but just nutral on it.
> So who sells this Activ-Flora ?


Activ-Flora seems hard to find. If you're lucky, your LFS carries it (like mine does), else you have to hunt it online, unless you can talk your LFS into ordering it for you. It's inert, so you're going to need root tabs and ferts, like any non-soil-based substrate, but it looks great and it's easy to care for.

http://www.activflora.com/

It's a little more expensive than Eco-Complete. (roughly the same price per bag but the bags are a little smaller) But nowhere near as spendy as the ADA stuff.


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## Absolut Talent (Feb 5, 2014)

http://www.thatpetplace.com/activ-flora-premium-planted-substrate

seems to be the cheapest place online for it. Theyve been having it at under $20 a bag. And over $90 on order is free shipping
Even the standard shipping to me with 3 bags is $6.99. not bad at all


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

^^ Ah, perhaps they got more in. They have been OOS for a while now.

Edit: Just enabled scripting to check, and yeah, they're still OOS on the black, which is the only one I care for.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Interesting note: I sent the importer of this product an e-mail asking what is either
it's country of origin or manufacture and they sent me a copy of my own e-mail back to me so I couldn't accuse them of not replying.
"Oh I'm sorry we must have sent the wrong e-mail." ...LOL...
Well so am I cause no info no sale from me. Besides smelling something rotten in Denmark, the hair on the back of my neck goes up when the add states "instant cycling" AND says that minerals are added to this material.
If it has been added then it will deplete and is not a permanent substrate.
So it's back to that #4 blasting sand which I suggest you look into if you want innert/permanent gravel/w fairly round grains(for the bottom dwellers) and
this size. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=14281&pictureid=52570


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## JJVanier (Feb 4, 2014)

Miracle gro organic potting soil with a gravel cap.


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## Absolut Talent (Feb 5, 2014)

I emailed their sales department to try to find a retailer in Illinois that would have it (as their website is apparently broken and no matter what you enter will return 'cannot find location')
Their response was to try their website of http://www.fantasybowls.com/decorative-aggregates.html
Prices are $24 per bag... but the shipping was going to be like 50+ for 3 bags.
atleast the black is in stock, but thats still too crazy for the shipping for me.

Sorry to hi-jack OP


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

I had very good luck with Miracle gro organic potting soil capped with ecocomplete. Had crazy HC and DHG growth using it. When I finally pulled everything out of the tank when I was tearing it down the root system was pretty crazy. Only negative is creating slopes and rescaping or pulling plants cant get messy.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Qwedfg said:


> I had very good luck with Miracle gro organic potting soil capped with ecocomplete. Had crazy HC and DHG growth using it. When I finally pulled everything out of the tank when I was tearing it down the root system was pretty crazy. Only negative is creating slopes and rescaping or pulling plants cant get messy.


Were you injecting co2 as well? That makes a huge difference that can be more important than specific substrates.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

Most of the stuff I've read about the sharpness of substrates seems to be a non-issue. People have kept various bottom dwellers on all of the common substrates without problems, and they generally agree that damage attributed to 'sharp substrate' (blasting grit, flourite, etc.), is probably more due to poor water quality and such.

As to dusty/cloudiness issues, I've used flourite and gravel several times without issue. When I'm setting up a tank, before adding water, I'll heavily mist the substrate (just get one of those empty spray bottles for a buck or two and fill with treated water). I think this washes the fines/dust further down into the lower levels of the substrate.

Then I add water slowly over a dish/through a sponge. 

This method has worked really well for me, and I don't even bother washing the substrate at all most times, and the water is crystal clear from the first filling.


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

kman said:


> Were you injecting co2 as well? That makes a huge difference that can be more important than specific substrates.


Ya I had Co2 injection.


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## 66Tino (Feb 20, 2014)

I must chime in. I'm a noob to planted tanks, and with the help and confusion of the internet you will NEVER get a straight answer. I thought i'd post my thoughts on this subject.
Every substrate will grow plants with proper nutrients and light. If you have those, use whatever you wish. Some will grow plants better like aquasoil, fluval strata, and plain old dirt, but with these "at least for a noob" come cloudy tanks, and more maintenance, once you know exactly what your doing this is the route to go for.
Then theres flourite and eco complete that dont really have the nutrients but offer high CEC and absorption when you add your own fertilizers and help break down and keep fish poop.
You can go the gravel route if money is an object will do the same as the above but with less contact to the water column and not as porous for the roots to grab.
Sand is a good option as well but it comes with its own setbacks depending on the thickness, and if there is alot of movement you will get some dirt trapped in filter motors etc. 
My conclusion as a total noob on my first planted tank im going to go the eco complete route till i learn the hobby enough to take me to the next level which will probably be a dirted tank a year or 2 down the road. I'm using mid light and plan to lightly stock the tank with fish.


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## Planted-tnk-guy (Dec 23, 2013)

*substrate*

I personally use either Seachem substrate or eco complete either one works just fine. I also use small black pea gravel and I can grow every type of plant I want just fine. I like to make a thin layer of the Seachem or Eco complete then add a 1/4 inch of soil out of my yard (dig down about 1ft). I take my garden dirt and mix with play sand from Lowes (cleaner than Home depots) till it is crumbly. This mix I use in all my tanks the soil and substrate never break down and hold any Nutrients that you add later via osmocote or other root tabs the three layers keep anaerobic conditions from happening and as to some MTS and you can add Dwarf Crayfish if they populate to fast, they eat them in my tank for population control and they look nice. I grow crypts to the hardest stems and have never had a problem and the soil clouds the water for one day at most do a water change and you are good to go. You can also take balls of soil 1/2-1" and freeze them and push down around plants that are heavy root feeders like crypts, swords, vals, etc. but I like them to get a good foothold in my tanks so I like the layer.


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## NanoDave (Feb 25, 2013)

Raymond S. said:


> Well so am I cause no info no sale from me. Besides smelling something rotten in Denmark, the hair on the back of my neck goes up when the add states "instant cycling" AND says that minerals are added to this material.
> If it has been added then it will deplete and is not a permanent substrate.
> albumid=14281&pictureid=52570[/url]


Just to clarify on this comment. ALL substrate that is rock/sand (Eco-Complete, ActivFlora, Black Diamond Blasting Sand, Florite) is INERT. When they say _instant_ cycling it's simply a marketing ploy. All the main brands say it one way or another.

Here are the products description taken directly from their websites.


Eco-Complete:

Specifically selected and engineered live substrate for freshwater planted aquaria

Eco‑Complete’s™ secret lies in rich basaltic volcanic soil which contains iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur plus over 25 other elements to nourish your aquatic plants. Now contains Floraspore™ - These symbionts activate the root-substrate interface to facilitate the uptake of minerals which make for a healthier root and healthier plant. Iron rich Eco‑Complete™ eliminates the need for laterite. No artificial dyes, paints, or chemical coatings. Eco-Complete™ has highly porous spherical grains for optimum diffusion performance and contains live Heterotrophic bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants. *It establishes a natural biological balance which makes cycling a new aquarium faster and safer.*

Quick Facts:
Unique natural substrates
For any Planted Aquarium
*Live - reduces break-in cycle time*



ActivFlora:

ActivFlora™ Planted Aquarium Substrate is a Bio-Activ NUTRIENT-ENRICHED™ gravel specially developed and suited for planted aquaria. ActivFlora™ gravels are naturally abundant in trace elements that instantly provide a nutrient-rich environment in which your aquatic plants will thrive and achieve optimum health and growth.

Elemental Analysis:	
Aluminum ..................10210	
Magnesium .............. 2281
Barium ..........................124
Manganese .....................64	
Calcium..........................195
Sodium.........................223
Cobalt...............................6
Nickel............................12
Chromium........................13
Vanadium.......................15
Copper ............................17	
Zinc...............................29	
Iron.............................18500
Potassium .................. 2195





•	Bio-activ Nutrients™ for faster, healthier plant growth. 
•	*Contains LIVE® Heterotrophic bacteria for Instant Cycling® of your planted aquarium. *
•	100% Natural - does not contain artificial dyes or additives. 
•	Promotes healthy root system - Activ-Flora™ is extremely microporous 
•	Will not alter pH in your Planted Aquarium. 
•	Natural bi-segmentation™ process to promote optimal Oxygenation 
•	Naturally Spherical grains promotes maximum diffusion (aeration) 
•	Activ-Flora™ is rich in Iron, no need for laterite. 



Note both substrates claim to offer almost identical things. ActivFlora does provide "analysis" on the amounts of each nutrient found. I've personally just root tabbed ActivFlora for the first time in a year of having it. I've had to root tab Eco-Complete and FloraMax (for the short time I had it) almost from day one. 

You ask 10 people on here you'll get 10 answers. The only real fact is all sand/rock substrate is inert after a while and really all your playing for is a bag of rocks. Get what you think looks best as thats all it will come down to in a years time when they all need root tabs.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Yup. 

One step better than sand. 

Except, I believe, both Activ-Flora and Eco Complete have a decent amount of iron, so you can skip Laterite and similar iron supplements. Other than iron, though, yeah, whether it's PetCo sand, clown vomit (aka colorful Petco gravel), Lowes play sand, or Eco "Complete", you'll need fert tabs to add missing nutrients.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Total noob to the planted tank hobby and have had great success with dirt and gravel. Same gravel and dirt with no dosing ferts or root tabs going on 9mo strong with same setup.



kman said:


> clown vomit (aka colorful Petco gravel)


:hihi:


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Total noob to the planted tank hobby and have had great success with dirt and gravel. Same gravel and dirt with no dosing ferts or root tabs going on 9mo strong with same setup.
> 
> :hihi:


It's hard to beat dirt (or MGOPS if that's what you meant) for sheer fert power. Just as attractive as anything else once capped, too. It's just touchy when things need to be moved.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes, MGOPS. I semi rescaped once to make room for a few Vals but that was it. I basically siphoned 100% of the water, moved a few plants, replanted and refilled with "O" mess. I've seen complete rescapes that have turned off members from ever trying dirt again.


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Yes, MGOPS. I semi rescaped once to make room for a few Vals but that was it. I basically siphoned 100% of the water, moved a few plants, replanted and refilled with "O" mess. I've seen complete rescapes that have turned off members from ever trying dirt again.


 
As stupid as i am, I never thought of this, does removing most of the water and slightly recapping with more sand..... Easy if you arent putting fish in until a later day..


Bet that keeps the mess down


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Raymond S. said:


> I prefer #4 blasting sand. It's about 4-6 times larger than regular sand but is still sand.


Do you use some type of prefilter sponge on intake of filter to prevent sand from getting into filter? From what type of Company did you buy it from? Does it have another name? Googled it and couldn't find it.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

NanoDave said:


> Heck you can even pick up Diamond Black Blasting Sand from tracktor supply co for $8 a 50lb bag. or Play Sand from Home Depot for $4 a 50lb bag.


I found Diamond Black Blasting Sand at northerntool.com

I tried Play sand and ended up with a cloud of dust that never went away. Pool filter sand and river sand (at landscaper) don't need a lot of rinse and don't get compressed as the pool filter sand does.


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