# Low tech cycling



## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

You probably aren't adding enough food to create enough ammonia to properly cycle the tank. Also you just added the filter, nothing is growing in there yet. Diana explains everything here, Just go buy a bottle of ammonia from Ace Hardware. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=389913&highlight=

My tank took two weeks with no bacteria added to cycle doing this.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

If you have enough fast-growing stem plants planted and they're growing well, the plants will take up the ammonia and the nitrogen bacteria colonies will develop as they can.

I use a HOB with mechanical filtration sponge that supplies water movement but you could get away with a water pump like a koralia. I wonder if enough fish in like a 40 tank could supply enough water movement. Sounds unlikely to me.


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## pammyBABY (Aug 1, 2013)

*How many plants is "Enough?"*



Django said:


> If you have enough fast-growing stem plants planted and they're growing well, the plants will take up the ammonia and the nitrogen bacteria colonies will develop as they can.


Hi Everyone,

I'm new, but I've read a lot about planted aquariums and this is an issue that has always confused me. At my local fish club they seem to feel enuf = so many the fish have no room to swim -- :icon_roll!

Is there some way to state it so it's easy to know when you've reached enuf? 

The only other thing I read was to have either: 1 plant per gallon, or 2 plants per gallon, but if they mean 40 or 80 DIFFERENT plants in my 40 gallon aquarium (which I can't possibly do).

I do have over 20 planted stem plants (but only 6 diff. types of plants [like: a small piece of anachris that had great roots, a couple giant hyrgros, maybe 10 stems of a couple varieties of Rotala, 4-5 stems of what is possibly some kind of Ludwigia and also a couple diff. crypts, several bunches of moss including: a couple baseball size clusters of java moss, a golf ball size of willow moss and something I've only seen the name "stringy moss" for, which usually likes to get mixed up in the other mosses) -- :icon_lol: and a couple 2-3 inch moss balls (Cladophora). 

This aquarium also has a huge amount of floating plants including: a LOT of hornwort (actually, some might be Carolina Fanwort), a few water lettuces that aren't doing well, a few small bunches of guppy grass (I planted two that seemed to be developing roots as well), a small "clump" of anubias, a long string of pennywort (I think, it’s the one that has a bunch of roots at each leaf’s “juncture” and a 4" by 4" bunch of floating ricia along with a LOT of java fern(lets) (maybe 20 in all) ranging from 1 inch to 4 inch bunches [none are truly attached to anything yet but I'm trying to encourage them to root onto wood and various stones]).

So is this enough? Too much? There is plenty of room for the fish to swim, of course, they are all guppies and a couple pairs of Heterandria formosa — so all small fish.

TIA, and looking forward to may an answer (or more, please).

Nice to “meet” you all,

pammyBABY


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

There are so many variables affecting the rate of ammonia/nitrate uptake I don't think you can whittle it down to a plant per gallon rule. The species, availability of other nutrients/carbon, lighting, substrate CEC, etc. all can make a difference.

If you are showing "good parameters" then you are probably at a good amount. My only concern with having livebearers would be that a population explosion may push things over the edge. When cycling, you should be checking the parameters often for safe measure. But when the tank becomes established we tend to only do so if something goes wrong first.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi PammyBABY!

The fish being alive is a good indicator. It also sounds like you have a significant number of plants including stem plants. I would like to see the test results for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate to see how the nitrifying bacteria are developing. I use the API Master Test Kit, a liquid test kit.

As I said before, the fish surviving is a good indicator that the plants are doing their job, which for one thing is taking up ammonia. Ammonia test results of 0 would tell you that you're doing fine. Could I see a front view pic of the tank to see how the number of plants looks? Thanks! Things sound good, though.

Django


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

TwistedAngel said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I have a low tech (I think) tank. Since I was originally going to go filterless (I have since changed my mind about that) I had the tank sitting 1/3 full for about 3 weeks with the moss in it, and I have had pennywort floating the top for about a week. I was adding fish food to the water once a week, and my ammonia and nitrite were zero. A couple of days ago, I filled my tank to the top, and last night I added the filter. The day after I filled the tank to the top, I got an ammonia reading, .13. I just tested, and the ammonia was back to zero. I guess my question is, did not filling the tank to the top in the beginning and then tripling the water volume crash my cycle? Do I have to start over? How many consecutive days of zero ammonia and nitrite reading do I need before I can start adding fauna to my tank?


I don't think adding more water (as long as it was conditioned) would have affected your cycle. If you're using fish food, you have to put some in every day.

I would say that a few days to a week of no Ammonia or Nitrite readings would be ok, but don't forget to do big water changes to get the Nitrate down before you put fauna in the tank, and add fauna slowly, 1 or two per week, except for schooling fish.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Do not just feed the tank a little bit once a week. Think about it:
The origin of the nitrogen in the tank is the protein in the fish food. Are you only going to feed your fish once a week? If you are going to use fish food as the ammonia source in the fishless cycle you need to act like you are feeding a lot of hungry fish. 

Enough plants = so many of the faster growing plants that you cannot see the back of the tank. 
This does not mean you can make a very narrow curtain just across the back. I could just see a line of Anacharis stems and inch deep and 4' long, tall enough to reach the surface! NOT!

It means the planting has some depth (back to front), but it is fine to leave swimming room for the fish. Not all the plants have to be tall enough to reach the water surface. But enough that a casual glance in the tank will show green, not the wall behind it or background. 

Fast growing plants is not just the species, but that the conditions are right for the plants you have, and they are growing fast under those conditions. If you have a tank full of Wisteria, Anacharis and Guppy Grass it sounds great, but if the light is so dim the plants are just sort of sitting there or dying they won't take up the nitrogen at any sort of helpful rate. 

Plants that are exposed to the air have a great advantage: They get their CO2 from the air, where it is a lot more plentiful than in the water. Also, they are highly likely a lot closer to the light. 

Here is what I would do (If I wanted to waste fish food):
Set up and plant the tank. 
Add double the amount of fish food that you think a well stocked tank would use. Feed the tank daily. 
Monitor the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for several weeks. The fish food does not decompose instantly. If you are using it for an ammonia source you need to get the microorganisms growing that decompose it. 
Watch the plants. Are they growing?

Here is what I would really do, and have done:
Fishless cycle (linked above) using ammonia as the source of ammonia.


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

Totally didn't realize the OP and the post I responded to were from different people.

I agree with the above. I've tried cycling with fish food and compared to pure ammonia it's just a waste of time and fish food.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Some use a cocktail shrimp to cycle the tank. I tried it a few days but got tired of the stench from the shrimp.


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