# Homebuilt canister filter



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

This is a little project that I have been pondering for a while now - a DIY canister filter. Why, you might ask, if you can buy one in a store?

Well, if you have a canister filter, you often end up building a little CO2 reactor for it. And then maybe an external heater. And then maybe the canister that originally provided a lot of circulation seems to slow down a bit.

So why not build the reactor a bit larger, put some sponge in it, a hole for the heater, add a little pump, and connect it to the tank?

My goal here would be to 1) combine all these components in one unit and 2) save some money. Of course, considering all the tinkering time won't make this any cheaper than buying one... but I enjoy tinkering, so that doesn't count. 

First, we need a canister. Here is what I bought @ Target for $8.91:










Conveniently, it has a hole in the top, and a hole in the lower part. Little gaskets along with that. Volume: 2 gallons.

Second, we need a pump. I have a $20 "QuietOne" 1200 laying around which makes an enormous racket, but it might just work for this purpose:


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

There are going to be a few questions. I mean besides from "Why in heaven would you...". For example, the placement of the pump. Or, how do we get this thing leakproof.

I have to admit - I haven't really started this yet. I don't need a canister filter right now, I am just trying out this idea.

So, with regards to the pump placement, we have a lot of combinations:

1) inside or outside the container
2) top or bottom of container
3) blowing in or blowing out

That would be 2x2x2 = 8 possible positions. Oh my. WWUD??

1) Inside would make the whole setup more quiet, compact and pleasing, and if the pump leaks a bit it wouldn't matter. But it would add a some heat which might not be good in Summer, take away some space inside the jar, plus I would have feed the power cable through the container, yet another source for leaks.

2) Not sure about that one. 

3) Blowing in puts the container under pressure, which might make it more prone to leaking. On the other hand it would provide a nice way to diffuse CO2.

Gotta think about that one a bit more. :redface:


----------



## xPlantedxCometx (Nov 12, 2007)

Interesting. I was thinking about getting a canister filter eventually for my tank. This is really going to be interesting.


----------



## Madfish (Sep 9, 2007)

I think I would go with the pump on the outside pulling the water through it. So its sitting on the return side. Also put a large jar inside of your contaner with some hose running from the top to the bottom of the jar. In the jar you could put some filter floss so the water goes from the bottom up to the top of the jar. Then it would over flow like a trickel filter and get pumped out from the openning where the spout is. But now its sounds more like a wet dry filter and not a canaster filter. But that is just some ideas to think of.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yep, that sounds good. Maybe pump connected to the bottom hole, pulling water out.

Regarding filter media, I was thinking of a big sponge, connected to the pump inlet inside the container.


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

there's one shop where i bought my supplies of plants and fish. the owner got lots of used eheim canister filters with dead pump. he modified them and put the pump on the top of the canister. works really well and the sound is almost unnoticeable..


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

That kind of pump does not react well to restricted inflow, however restricted outflow effects the pump just like 'head'. I might use that particular pump to push into the 'canister'.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

SCMurphy said:


> That kind of pump does not react well to restricted inflow, however restricted outflow effects the pump just like 'head'. I might use that particular pump to push into the 'canister'.


Agreed, I don't understand the physics, but my understanding is that centrifugal pumps deal much better with restriction of the outflow than with restriction of the inflow. Have the pump prior to the filtration media.

BTW, I built a 4-liter canister filter with that pump just the other day, and so far I'm fairly satisfied. I used a Lock & Lock container, which is fantastic except for being polypropylene and hard to glue and for having latches only apply enough pressure to the seals to hold back ~3 feet of head. I have tie-down straps around it, which seals it to ~8 feet of head. My 1200 is inline, and it doesn't leak.

I know an XP2 would probably be a bit better, and certainly more convenient, but this seems to function quite well so far and cost something like $40. I could post photos if you like, but it's nothing that hasn't been seen before in a DIY canister filter thread before, just better executed. :icon_wink


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Swylie, I looked at the Lock&Lock things, and it seemed that they are a bit on the thin and flexible side, with some risk of leaks due to warping.

Sean, I always hear that sort of thing about centrifugal pumps. But then, if you look at canister filters like Eheims, Renas and Fluvals, they all work by pulling the water through the filter media, rather than pushing.

In a closed circuit like a canister filter, does the pump really "know" that the restriction is before or after it, given that water doesn't compress? Something to think about.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Wasserpest said:


> Swylie, I looked at the Lock&Lock things, and it seemed that they are a bit on the thin and flexible side, with some risk of leaks due to warping.
> 
> Sean, I always hear that sort of thing about centrifugal pumps. But then, if you look at canister filters like Eheims, Renas and Fluvals, they all work by pulling the water through the filter media, rather than pushing.
> 
> In a closed circuit like a canister filter, does the pump really "know" that the restriction is before or after it, given that water doesn't compress? Something to think about.


Yes, Lock & Lock are thinner than I'd like, but as I said, I tested my setup (with strap clamps holding the lid down) to about eight feet of head, which is more than Filstars are technically rated to. They're apparently not supposed to be placed lower than 4'7". Something with a well made screw-threaded fitting would work much better, though. Your cooler might work great.

I understand your question about restriction before/after the pump, and I'm about as confident as you are in the ultimate answer. I'd really like an explanation from an engineer. Compressibility and pressure are different, though. Not sure if that matters.


----------



## saint27 (Apr 27, 2006)

Ask and you shall receive. I created a new thread to explain all of it though.

Aquarium Hydraulics for Dummies


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

You can't compress water but you can 'decompress' it, it's called cavitation where voids (bubbles) are formed in a liquid. The restriction on the intake causes cavitation and problems for the pump, think air lock, it's not good to have the impeller spinning with no water. The restriction on the outflow causes back pressure which acts the same as an increase in head, the impeller is always spinning in water. 

In the quiet one pumps the water acts as a lubricant and a coolant. If you reduce the availability of the water to the ceramic magnet you increase the heat it generates by increasing the friction, reducing the life span of the impeller.

This is not the same as bubbling a gas into a pump, unlike into some canister filters since there is no place for a larger bubble to form under normal pressures.


----------



## saint27 (Apr 27, 2006)

Now you are getting at why the pump is normally at the top of the filter. It is easier for the sir to escape. If you place the pump at the bottom you want to make sure that there is a path for the air to escape incase cavitation does occur. This is done as easily as making sure the the outlet of the pump is pointing up. If there is cavitation then there is little or no flow and if given a path air will easily escape the system.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks for all contributions! Very valid points about cavitation... need to think about what to do with the air which might/will collect in the canister.

Regular canister filter "burp" it out automatically, because the pump sits on top. If you look at a canister with the pump on the bottom, like the HOT Magnum, have a little burping straw going from the top of the housing to the bottom. If you open up a ZooMed 501, you will see a little plastic air line for exactly the same purpose.

Since I want to use this as a CO2 reactor as well, I have to think about that. Placing the pump on top gets rid of any gas quickly, but maybe that isn't what I want...

Placing the pump on the bottom will make attaching the filter sponge much easier. Also, it might allow some CO2 to swirl around on top and dissolve over time. I could mimic the HOT/501 and put an airline up top that would suck any excess air/CO2 into the impeller.

Of course, that airline can't be too thick, otherwise there will be too much bypass.

Some filter sponges are on order...


----------



## BOTIA (Dec 23, 2003)

Hi guys
I have started building a modular canister filter almost 2 months ago. 
I have all the modules built I am just letting the glue offgas. 
The whole unit will be mounted on plywood frame with two side.
It will be filter then pump then co2 reactor, heater module then UVS al a turbotwist.
I put up pic tonight off what I have don so far.
Cheers
Botia


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

After I flunked my crash course in Hydraulix for Dummies, I decided to just use common sense to determine the pump placement.

The risk of the plastic cover popping off and the old "empty tank in three minutes" scenario made me choose the pump to pull water out of the canister instead of pushing it in. Also, I decided to place the pump outside of the canister, and on the bottom rather than on top.

I spend a fun hour in Home Depot going through the plumbing and irrigation parts isle. Threw a bunch of 1/2" Sched 40 parts in my cart. Whatever I won't use goes back to the store.

Here is basically what I came up with...










Some O-rings, normally used for 3/4 garden hoses, will come in handy. I cut the white O-ring from the Rubbermaid jug bottom a little bigger, so the 1/2" plastic pieces would fit through it.

Next, need to think about how to implement CO2 and how to purge air from it.


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Just don't let the faceplate twist off, I set up a closed loop with a 4000 to do CO2 injection. I found out that quietone pumps are risky as external pumps, the face plate just twists off too easily.


----------



## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

i bet you could get a job with eheim by the time you are done with this here. love to hear the results.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Good point about the faceplate Sean... although on this pump it's very hard to push in, and I am not able to twist it without additional tools, still, something to keep an eye on.


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Yeah but with a little leverage from a long enough piece of PVC the faceplate becomes very easy to twist off. It surprised the hell out of me, I was glad I didn't have it loaded with water at the time. Good luck with the project, looks like a fun way to spend a weekend.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

SCMurphy said:


> Yeah but with a little leverage from a long enough piece of PVC the faceplate becomes very easy to twist off. It surprised the hell out of me, I was glad I didn't have it loaded with water at the time. Good luck with the project, looks like a fun way to spend a weekend.



Ditto. So hard to put on, so easy to take off. I like the pump well enough beside that, though.


----------



## saint27 (Apr 27, 2006)

I have been looking at a similar cooler I have. I am going to be interested to see how you work with the lid and the input.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Been busy with work and family stuff, no time for important things like constructing a canister filter from a beverage jug. :icon_mad: 

Anyway, with the weekend coming, maybe there will be some time. For now, this is where we are:

View from above --










You can see how I intend to inject CO2... it will just bubble right into the canister, and swirl around until it (hopefully) dissolves. A little airvalve can be closed if the CO2 needs to be disconnected for some reason.

View inside --










In the center the filter sponge will be connected to the pump inlet. A burp line is supposed to purge any air from the top of the canister.

What's next? I am a bit disappointed about the noisiness of the pump. That might throw a wrench into my plans.

The next big thing is how to get the main canister seal sealed. The jug I bought doesn't have a very smooth rim, unfortunately, and I doubt that I can just close it tightly and be done with it. So let's look at the alternatives:

1) Close tightly and be done with it (did I mention that already?)
2) Add some small diameter O-Ring inside where the canister and cover meet
3) Add a larger diameter O-Ring to the outside where can and cover meet
4) Add some sort of flat rubber gasket right around the gap. This isn't going to work, the handle connections on top are in the way.

I have no clue where to get a suitable sized O-Ring though... Do you by any chance?


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Ever seen a contraption called a Vittles Vault? They're for storing pet food and such, and can be found in petco and petsmart. The same company makes rims for five gallon buckets that are threaded inside the rim for a gasketed screw-in insert that's nearly the same diameter as that of the bucket. You snap the rim on, and from then on just use the threaded insert. They might make smaller lids too. The next time I make a filter I'm going to try a vittles vault or a three gallon bucket or something.

Also, I decided to put my pump prior to the filter so that priming would be easier. My pump pushes water into the bottom of the filter so any trapped air at the top of the filter gets blown right out.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

gammaplastics.com? I'll give it a look & see.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Wasserpest said:


> gammaplastics.com? I'll give it a look & see.


That's the one. One advantage to a vittles vault over other containers is that they have flat sides, and since all of these products are made of HDPE they're impossible to glue without those ridiculously priced glues for "low energy" plastics. Flat sides means you can use bulkheads. "Course the container you're already working with comes with its own bulkheads, which I'm guessing is why you chose it.

You think that massive amounts of pipe thread tape would make it seal? I doubt it, but it's an idea. Come to think of it, the only difficult parts of my project were making ghetto-tastic lowes diy bulkheads seal and making the canister lid seal.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

swylie said:


> You think that massive amounts of pipe thread tape would make it seal? I doubt it, but it's an idea. Come to think of it, the only difficult parts of my project were making ghetto-tastic lowes diy bulkheads seal and making the canister lid seal.


I want to still be able to open and close it securely for maintenance, as rarely that might occur. That pretty much excludes pipe thread.

I might play around with some totally regular silicone hose. The trick will be to make a loop, without causing leaks at the spot where the two ends close the loop. Maybe gluing them together, using another piece of hose inside. Might work... but I am open for suggestions where to get a suitable sized gasket.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Even NASA has trouble with large diameter gaskets. It was a failed O-ring that caused the Challenger explosion, sad to say. It was being used for a job that O-rings aren't designed to do, but still...


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Remember that the pressure is going to be from the inside pushing the lid up off the container. Where is the best place to put the gasket then? I am not sure the top of the rim is it. A gasket that was someplace on the lid threads or positioned so the water pressure over the edge of the bucket pushed the gasket down into the threads would be better I think.


----------



## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

sweet.. Nice work looking forward to the end result


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

SCMurphy said:


> Remember that the pressure is going to be from the inside pushing the lid up off the container. Where is the best place to put the gasket then? I am not sure the top of the rim is it. A gasket that was someplace on the lid threads or positioned so the water pressure over the edge of the bucket pushed the gasket down into the threads would be better I think.


Nope, I decided on a design which pulls water out of the canister. So the lid will actually be pulled closed. I did a trial run a while ago, and it seems like it is tight when the pump is running (lid under negative pressure). However, when I turned the pump off, there was some water making it through the lid.

Need to figure out what to do about the heater... If the cables were round, no problem, I'd have used a smaller Lesco cable squishy thing. To accommodate the heater glass it looks like I would have to use the 1" Lesco fitting, and the way the lid is formed, there is no 1" flat space to mount it there securely.


----------



## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Here's a newer version of a Vittles Vault: http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store...1&ps_session=a7eff740f73655c2df2234191e93110a

A friend uses one to transport livestock. It doesn't leak a drop.

Tommy


----------



## born2lovefish (Dec 29, 2006)

I would get some gasket material and cut a ring out that fits in the lid between the outside and the threads of the lid. I know that you probably can not visualize that, but maybe that will help a little or spark another thought. I'm an engineering student, but I have not taken any classes on fluids yet. After I do, hopefully I can be of more help.


----------



## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

LS6 Tommy said:


> Here's a newer version of a Vittles Vault: http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store...1&ps_session=a7eff740f73655c2df2234191e93110a
> 
> A friend uses one to transport livestock. It doesn't leak a drop.
> 
> Tommy


That is a nice idea. I wonder how it would do under pressure, and if the side would bow out.


----------



## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

This is pretty interesting


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

born2lovefish said:


> I would get some gasket material and cut a ring out that fits in the lid between the outside and the threads of the lid. I know that you probably can not visualize that, but maybe that will help a little or spark another thought. I'm an engineering student, but I have not taken any classes on fluids yet. After I do, hopefully I can be of more help.


Actually I can visualize that clearly, and the idea has crossed my mind... Of course the gasket would be pretty large size, so a lot of material would go to waste, especially if it doesn't work.

Also I thought about using some proper length silicone or norprene tubing as a gasket, but not sure how to connect the ends without messing up the sealing capability.


----------



## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Wasser, have you thought about trying to find a wet suit with a rip? Maybe even someone here.
Or perhaps you can get a sample from a place like this:
http://www.foamorder.com/neoprene.html


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Neoprene... hmmm... mouse pads?

<<Wasserpest hurries off to grab waterproof mouse pads from co-workers>> :bounce:


----------



## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

That has to be 1 heck of a big mousepad, or the cooler is much smaller than I thought!!!!

Cool, good luck.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

About 8" diameter. Thanks for all the ideas!

I smoothened out the top of the container a bit, where the lid seals against it. Need to check if that improves the seal. Also I will test strapping down the lid with one of them adjustable bungees.

Still not sure how to implement the heater in there. Might check out Heyco again for some ideas.


----------



## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Does the inside of the lid have a groove where the top of the container fits? Perhaps the rubber to hold window screening in place. It would crush nicely, the problem is where the ends meet. Perhaps gluing or melting to seal it at the joint?


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yes, it does have a groove. I played around with some materials there already. For example, I can cut a piece of vinyl airline, fit it onto the rim, and it will just so fit into the groove and probably seal it up well.

Two issues with that... first, like you mentioned, the problem of how to make ends meet :icon_bigg From that point of view, one complete ring would be better, especially considering that this needs to be opened and closed once in a while.

Second issue, it reduces the amount of thread that grabs onto the lid, making it very insecure. That's the main reason why I think the seal on the outside might be a better solution. Just need to find that perfect size, perfect material gasket.


----------



## bpmox (Jun 16, 2007)

I built a canister filter last year using the same QuiteOne pump. I drilled holes in an army surplus ammunition box and I made a leather strap that fit around it that held 2 wine bottles for DIY CO2. I had it set to pull water through the filter like the original poster.

The project looked great, but had a few small problems. The hoses and connections were often water tight but not air tight, and when I would turn the filter on it would slowly accumulate air which produced a lot of noise at the pump. I eventually got the hoses sealed air-tight, but I had a lot of problems with the pump continuing to hold air and make noise. I would have to tilt the QuiteOne pump so the air could pass on through, but it stopped working a few months later anyway.

I would recommend anyone planning on building their own canister filter that you use a different brand of pump, and that you be very careful how you mount it.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I think I found a decent way to seal this thing, although not easily repeatable... I took a seal from an unused Bubba Keg and it fit into the groove of my beverage jug fairly well.










I had the whole thing running for about 2 hours, and turned it off and on again a couple of times, and it seems to work fine. There was no accumulation of air, I am assuming the burp line works well, or maybe I couldn't hear the air in it.

The pump is way too loud. Even after adding a little gasket to prevent the impeller from hitting the housing it is still very noisy. Why do they call it QuietOne??? Just kidding?










The OxygenPlus 10 Filter Sponge fits extremely well in there, providing lots of filter media volume. I haven't really addressed the heater implementation, or any (maybe not so) quick disconnects, but I have proven the concept (building a canister for little money), and I might use it one day... until then... It has been a fun little project.

My final thought is that moving the pump into the tank itself, and connecting the appropriate amount of filter sponge is a nice, low tech, high efficiency and safe solution. Maybe changing a corner (or both) to some internal overflow to hide the stuff in there, add a cheap heater, use the pump to disperse CO2... that might just be a superior solution.


----------



## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I may have missed if you mentioned it earlier, but why not place the pump inside the jug?


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

well, with this lid, http://www.gammaplastics.com/new/GSL.html
you can use your 5G home depot bucket to make a canister.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

fshfanatic said:


> I may have missed if you mentioned it earlier, but why not place the pump inside the jug?


Mainly 3 reasons:

+ Less heat transferred to tank water (easier to heat a tank than to cool it)
+ Power cable doesn't need to be routed through the canister
+ More space for filter media etc inside the canister

Of course there are reasons why you would want to put it inside

+ More heat transferred to tank water (good if you live in a cold region, or use lots of air condition)
+ Compacter, cleaner design
+ No problem if pump leaks a little (or falls apart)


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

fshfanatic said:


> I may have missed if you mentioned it earlier, but why not place the pump inside the jug?


It would be quieter, yes, and it would eliminate a few joints that could leak. However, it would require a hole for the power cord, and sealing that hole would be problematic. That jug is either polyethylene or polypropylene, both of which are unglueable without special expensive glues. I tried gluing polypropylene before, and I decided that I would never try it again. You can get silicone to stick to it, sorta. So you're always worrying about whether bumping your glue joint is going to make it come unstuck.

Since most of the containers that one would use for a diy canister are PP or PE plastic, I would strongly recommend only mechanical fasteners such as bulkheads that compress O-rings, liquid-tight cordgrips or stuff like that. That's a good reason to keep the pump external.

Edit: I'm too slow: Wasserpest answered first, and more completely to boot.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yeah you are right, the lower noise would be another + for putting it inside the canister. Especially with the "QuietOne".

Big issue with routing cables or pipes through the beverage jug body is that it has actually two layers... just one more thing to worry about when trying to leakproof things. Would be advantageous to find a similar container made of a single layer only... To insulate heat or cold most of them use two layers, some even have insulating material between the layers.

The cover is one layer only, that's what I would use for sticking the heater in.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I'm thinking of making a canister using the gamma lid and putting the pump inside.. 
Do you guys have any recommendations for a sealing/clasping device for the electrical wire coming out of the container?


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> I'm thinking of making a canister using the gamma lid and putting the pump inside..
> Do you guys have any recommendations for a sealing/clasping device for the electrical wire coming out of the container?


See if you can find a Heyco Liquid Tight Cord Grip that fits your need. They make a whole line of stuff, and the part that I have from them that I'm using for my inline heater seems nicely built. They'll send you free samples too. It looks like these things would work much better with a round cord than a flat cord, though.

You'd have to do a small amount of plumbing to turn the cordgrips into bulkhead fittings. You'd need a sealing washer and a large-flange locknut like they have on their homepage.

I know this is a total derailment of Wasserpest's original thread, but if I were to start over on my DIY canister, the gamma seal lid is how I'd go. That, or a vittles vault, but it's the same thing really. I'd just like the square sides to make it easier to mount a bulkhead at the bottom. As it stands, my lock & lock container with external pump hasn't leaked a drop since I put ratcheting tiedowns around it to hold the lid on. I have one gallon of media volume, the quiet one 1200 pump, a 29 gallon tank, and I think it's perfect.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

cool thanks,
Sorry for hijacking the thread... I'll be using wasserpest's plumbing but i'll put the pump inside and using the gamma lid.

the vittle vault is a bit expensive, $40-$50... Might as well buy a premade canister. :/


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

swylie said:


> I know this is a total derailment of Wasserpest's original thread, but if I were to start over on my DIY canister, the gamma seal lid is how I'd go. That, or a vittles vault, but it's the same thing really. I'd just like the square sides to make it easier to mount a bulkhead at the bottom. As it stands, my lock & lock container with external pump hasn't leaked a drop since I put ratcheting tiedowns around it to hold the lid on. I have one gallon of media volume, the quiet one 1200 pump, a 29 gallon tank, and I think it's perfect.





mistergreen said:


> cool thanks,
> Sorry for hijacking the thread... I'll be using wasserpest's plumbing but i'll put the pump inside and using the gamma lid.
> 
> the vittle vault is a bit expensive, $40-$50... Might as well buy a premade canister. :/


Guys, you don't have to apologize for posting! Anything remotely related is very welcome, it's more of a brainstorming session than a closely defined project anyway.

I like the Rubbermaid beverage jug because it is cheap, good size, and has a bulkhead opening basically built in on the bottom and top. A better cover seal would have been very beneficial. Putting the pump inside the jug would have fixed the noise problem.

I am going to get some smaller Heyco LTF's for future projects that require flexible cables to be routed through the canister body.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I bought 2 gamma lids online for $8 each. I'm testing for leaks right now and things look good so far... And now for the hard part... drilling/plumbing and without leaks?

Which drill bits do you guys use? spade?


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> I bought 2 gamma lids online for $8 each. I'm testing for leaks right now and things look good so far... And now for the hard part... drilling/plumbing and without leaks?
> 
> Which drill bits do you guys use? spade?


Don't be like me. I didn't have the right tools at the time, so I reamed the holes out by hand, and what a pain in the ass that was. A spade bit would probably do the trick, but in my experience they're awkward to use on thin materials. A conical bit of some kind would be nice, but the step-bits designed for sheet metal are fiendishly expensive.

For me the biggie was getting the drilled hole to seal. Definitely make sure to de-burr your holes, that was a biggie. Also, make very sure that you have a male /female threaded piece on either side of the canister and that they both have large flanges and ridges for a wrench. Mine worked like this, from inside to out: 1. female-threaded large-flanged something or other, 2. big fat O-ring, 3. canister wall, 4. broad washer, 5. male threaded hose nipple.

When you wrench down on the male/female fittings, they squash the O-ring between the inner fitting flange and the canister wall. There's no need for an O-ring on the outer face of the canister, but it can't hurt. It wouldn't have done anything in my case because I added the washer to aid with torque around the axis of the bulkhead. I didn't want the whole joint to tear out if I dropped the canister, so this distributes the force. Anyway... This is just a DIY bulkhead. I'm sure a commercial one would be much simpler.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

The spade drill bits worked like a charm. It went through plastic really well..
I must admit, I've spent over $20 on plumbing parts because I'm not sure what works best but I can reuse a lot of it for future projects.

*Wasserpest*: Are you partitioning your medium inside your container like a fluval? And what are you using? I'm thinking of using egg crates mess.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

So I built one... there are minor leaks but it can be fixed.
The biggest pain is to prime the intake hose to get everything going. Is there an easy way to do this?


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> So I built one... there are minor leaks but it can be fixed.
> The biggest pain is to prime the intake hose to get everything going. Is there an easy way to do this?


If you aren't afraid of getting water in your mouth you can suck on the outlet hose with the inlet submerged. Or, depending on how your pump is positioned and where your inlet and outlet are, you might just be able to pour some water into the canister before you close it up and attach the hoses.

Spypet, did you solve your gasket issues? I was at Home Depot today and I saw a roll of flexible PVC material that's designed for shower pan lining, or something like that. Keeping your shower from leaking and rotting your house. Anyway, it's soft PVC sorta like vinyl hose material, and it comes on a roll that's maybe a yard wide. You could cut a gasket out of it pretty easily. Home Depot also had little sheets of rubber for making your own gaskets, but they're only six inches square.

Have you thought of making your own gaskets from a material like silicone or polyurethane? Maybe you could cut something from a yoga mat or a foam placemat?

I have another four liter Lock & Lock canister filter that's nearing completion. I'll have to leak-test it and then photograph it so I can show it off.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

mistergreen said:


> The spade drill bits worked like a charm. It went through plastic really well..
> I must admit, I've spent over $20 on plumbing parts because I'm not sure what works best but I can reuse a lot of it for future projects.
> 
> *Wasserpest*: Are you partitioning your medium inside your container like a fluval? And what are you using? I'm thinking of using egg crates mess.


Embarrassing, but I am not using the filter at all, it was more of a fun project to see if it works. My preferred filter medium is a sponge, as you could see from the pictures. No further partitioning needed, sponges are great for mechanical and biological filtration.



mistergreen said:


> So I built one... there are minor leaks but it can be fixed.
> The biggest pain is to prime the intake hose to get everything going. Is there an easy way to do this?


Do you have a picture? I had no problems priming mine. Intake was on top, and to prime it I just filled it up through the outlet which was on the bottom of the filter. So the water level was rising until full and visible in the intake hose. Did you use some sort of burp hose to get rid of any air inside?


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

hahah,
I was afraid of that. Maybe there's a mechanical way to prime the hose.

I'll post pictures soon.. It's pretty cool. I used the gamma lid and put the pump inside for aesthetic reasons. It might be a bit more quiet too.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Bubba Kegs have a little gasket that works well, I tried with one of them and it sealed fine. Problem is you can't buy them separately without having to buy the whole keg.

I tried several other things with less success.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> hahah,
> I was afraid of that. Maybe there's a mechanical way to prime the hose.
> 
> I'll post pictures soon.. It's pretty cool. I used the gamma lid and put the pump inside for aesthetic reasons. It might be a bit more quiet too.


You can get various one-way pumps for priming. There's a Python branded one in a lot of fish stores. This time of year WalMart has them for pumping kerosene. They also have them in the RV section and in the boating section.

How do you like the gamma-seal lid? Easy to use? Seals well? Holds up to pressure?


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

the gamma lid is great. You just have to really tighten the lid to get a good seal.

thanks for the tips to one way pumps. I can see this being a problem down the road where I have to clean this. I really don't want to suck filter water. And the outlet would have a spray bar attached to it..


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> the gamma lid is great. You just have to really tighten the lid to get a good seal.
> 
> thanks for the tips to one way pumps. I can see this being a problem down the road where I have to clean this. I really don't want to suck filter water. And the outlet would have a spray bar attached to it..


Yeah, I know what you mean. That's one reason that I have my current DIY canister set up the way I do. It's also a four liter Lock & Lock, and I have a Quiet One 1200 sitting next to the canister, pushing water into the bottom. Since the pump is at the bottom of my setup, I can fill the canister with a little water and turn it on. If I switch the pump on and off a bit it seems to be able to suck the trapped air through the intake hose and fill the canister the rest of the way. I had the pump at the top of the canister before, pulling water out and returning it to the tank, and I found it was more of a pain to prime.

Oh well. The one I'm working on has the pump inside, at the top. I'll deal.

Glad to hear you like the lid. I'd hate to have pointed someone in the wrong direction. I'll definitely use one of those lids on my next large filter.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

here it is
over all.









top.









underside.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I did more tests and the gamma lid is slightly leaking... 
It's not leaking at the lid part but at the union part where it connects to the bucket. I guess the pressure is making it leak...

I'll try one more time but this time, I'll silicon the union part.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Looks like you are pulling the water into the bucket. Have you considered turning this around so you pull it out of the bucket? Might be easier to seal things if they get sucked closed rather than pushed apart.

One disadvantage with screw lids compared to clamp lids is that if you have things sticking into the container (pump, hoses) you can't use the full filter volume. I thought I stuff my 2 gal container full of sponges, but the outlet sticking into the filter chamber prevented that.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

thanks,
I'll try flipping the pump flow around.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> thanks,
> I'll try flipping the pump flow around.


The Lock & Lock containers that I like so much leak around the gasket too. I think they hold a couple of feet of head before they leak, but that's not enough. I wrap a couple of ratcheting tie-down straps around them and they're good to 8+ feet of head.

Could you do something like that? Or maybe you could come up with some kind of clamp like the Fluval FX5 and largest Eheim Classic canisters have.

Or you could take the gasket out of the lid, stuff something under there, and put the gasket back in. That way it would fit more tightly when the lid was closed.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

wow.. pulling water out of the bucket is a great solution... No leaks (so far) and you don't need to prime!
Just make sure there's water in the bucket.

Looks like this filter will be up and running soon. My next task is to buy media for the filter... Looks like I can get cheaper media from the hardware store.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

mistergreen said:


> wow.. pulling water out of the bucket is a great solution... No leaks (so far) and you don't need to prime!
> Just make sure there's water in the bucket.
> 
> Looks like this filter will be up and running soon. My next task is to buy media for the filter... Looks like I can get cheaper media from the hardware store.


Nice projects!

As for filter media from the hardware store. How about a bunch or scrubby pads?

-Andrew


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Fish Newb said:


> Nice projects!
> 
> As for filter media from the hardware store. How about a bunch or scrubby pads?
> 
> -Andrew


yup.. And I bought some course fiberglass air filter too..
I was looking at a little box of bio-ball for $30 and it turned me off. We are getting ripped off.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Never mind on the fiberglass filter.. I realized it could be dangerous.. I'll get a tub full of scrubbing pads.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yup, I was thinking fiberglass? Might cause some problems for you and your fishies. Scrubbies are good biological filtration, if that's needed. I use sponges!


----------



## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

Wal Mart has something like filter floss that is actually a pad and I think it is actually the same stuff as filter floss but you can cut it with a pair of scissors to any shape you like and it comes like 2 to 2 1/2 inches think. I have used it before in a HOB filter. Works great. This might work good in our DIY canister filter biological filtration.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Joetee said:


> Wal Mart has something like filter floss that is actually a pad and I think it is actually the same stuff as filter floss but you can cut it with a pair of scissors to any shape you like and it comes like 2 to 2 1/2 inches think. I have used it before in a HOB filter. Works great. This might work good in our DIY canister filter biological filtration.


What're you talking about and where can I find it in WalMart? Doesn't sound like you're talking about quilt batting. The quilt batting I've seen is a lot less thick.


----------



## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

When I got mine, it was right there in the same area as the filter floss in the sewing section. I think it is used for under chair covers on top of the floss... The padding that you sit on. I looks like filter floss that has been blown like cotton candy sort of. Comes like a 24" x 24" x 2" pad.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Joetee said:


> When I got mine, it was right there in the same area as the filter floss in the sewing section. I think it is used for under chair covers on top of the floss... The padding that you sit on. I looks like filter floss that has been blown like cotton candy sort of. Comes like a 24" x 24" x 2" pad.


Awesome. I'll look for that stuff next time I'm there. I'm using quilt batting right now, which is thin sheets of filter floss, maybe 1/2" max before it's wet. This stuff sounds better, though I guess it depends on how much floss you like to run. I like to run a lot.


----------



## discusman1 (Apr 9, 2006)

Saw this on CL. Thought some of you might be interested. Five gallon bucket with female 1/2 pipe threads on the top and bottom.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/grd/557007159.html

Peter


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

for $5?
a bucket is $5. Good deal, I guess if it works. I'd hate to pry that lid and close it shut for cleaning though.


----------



## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

Sorry, no time to read all the replies, but I'm going to make my own filter soon. I have fluval 204 over my 29, but I feel I need extra filtration. However my design is much simpler...I will make an overflow from pvc pipe, then I will use a plastic cat-litter container (the 5gal bucket doesn't fit in the stand), and the pipe will run off into this bucket. The water will build up, and pass through a vertical micron pad, on the other side of which will be a submersed pump, pumping the water back to the aquarium. On the return line, I will also plumb a co2 reactor. 

There will be a float switch on the pump side, in case the water gets too low, or the siphon breaks. The real reason for this whole project is hiding some of the equipment, controlling the water level, and ease of water changes. Yet I'm planning to make this very low on co2 dissipation, so all the surfaces are going to be more or less "still". 

The biggest advantage of this over a canister, is that water level will always remain constant, and I'll never have to put a bucket in the tank again  . I'll post the project once I start working on it.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I think that is commonly called a "sump". You might want to publish that in its own thread, here we are discussing a closed loop, pressurized canister and the challenges to make it airtight and liquid-proof.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

My bucket canister has been running for 2 weeks now and I can see an improvement.. However, I've noticed a potential problem. When I unplug the pump to simulate a power outage, Both line (ouput & intake) or one start to take in water thus create high pressure in the bucket. 

It's pretty well built but there's still a little leaking from the pressure. I've never owned a commercially made canister so I don't know if there's a solution for this built in.

Any solution for this? (besides moving the intake and output out of the tank)

thanks.


----------



## neilfishguy (Dec 16, 2007)

Water cant compress-and a siphon cant create much force so I dont understand that


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

neilfishguy said:


> Water cant compress-and a siphon cant create much force so I dont understand that


huh? what do you mean?
If you keep filling a balloon with water, it pops.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> It's pretty well built but there's still a little leaking from the pressure. I've never owned a commercially made canister so I don't know if there's a solution for this built in.
> 
> Any solution for this? (besides moving the intake and output out of the tank)
> 
> thanks.


You could raise the height of the canister relative to the tank. This would decrease the static pressure inside the canister. You could also figure out where it's leaking and improve the seals. I don't have these issues with my DIY canister; it's totally leak-free. However, I'm on version 3.5 of this design, so it had darn well better be leak-free. :icon_wink


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

normally, it doesn't leak... Only when the pressure inside is too high. I just have the static pressure inside the canister. The canister is pretty low compared to the tank.

thanks.


----------



## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

I guess he is technically right, that it shouldn't be called _high_ pressure.

Water not being able to be compressed is not a reason to say that water can't be under pressure. However, a siphon should not be able to generate an unreasonably high amount of pressure either. If the seal is not able to handle that amount, I don't think it's safe to use as a canister. Be careful with that amount of water


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Commercial canister filters are built strong enough to prevent leaking when the power is off. They don't flex and the seals are probably better than what we use on a 5gal bucket etc.

Better seals, stronger canister housing material would help. I doubt that the head/static pressure would make a difference. I think what happens is that while the pump is working, the canister is under negative pressure ("sucked closed"), and when the power suddenly fails, the container "relaxes" and the change in water pressure is too much for the seals.

That's why I liked the strong beverage jug, even though the cover flexed a bit and could cause similar leaking when the pump stops working.


----------



## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

mistergreen, the pressure is always created in any turned off canister filter. When the pump is not moving the water, essentially all the water weight from the tank is pushing down to the lowest point... in this case the filter. Not just the water from the line where the siphon is taking place. If your filter can't handle that, don't use it. The only reason it doesn't leak when its on is, as said before, because some of the pressure is offset by return pump. 

Good point wasserpet roud: . I forgot to mention that I originally planned to make a canister, but due to the challenges you're facing and necessary reliability I bought one, and decided to make a sump later on. I actually considered a closed sump design at some point, where the top would be sealed off, and regulated by excess co2 gas... the idea didn't live long  

good luck!


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Ah, I see.
The leak isn't too bad.. Only a few drips.. for future models, I can get a more rigid buck and reinforce the gasket.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> Ah, I see.
> The leak isn't too bad.. Only a few drips.. for future models, I can get a more rigid buck and reinforce the gasket.


Where's it leaking from?


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I'm using the gamma lid. The leak is at the gasket union part.

I bought an extra one just in case.. Maybe, I should fill the union part with silicon or plumber puddy before pounding it on a bucket.

if nothing else, it looks like the vittle vault is the way to go.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

mistergreen said:


> I'm using the gamma lid. The leak is at the gasket union part.
> 
> I bought an extra one just in case.. Maybe, I should fill the union part with silicon or plumber puddy before pounding it on a bucket.
> 
> if nothing else, it looks like the vittle vault is the way to go.


Pretty sure that Vittles Vaults use the same kind of seal between the canister itself and the snap-on portion of the lid. One idea I had is to lube up the gasket with some silicone grease; that should help it seal a bit better. Also, examine the gasket and the bucket rim and make sure there aren't any bits of dirt or plastic or whatever contaminating the joint. If that doesn't work, I've had great success getting my Lock & Lock filters to seal by wrapping a ratcheting tie-down strap around them. If you're a carpenter, I guess they'd be called strap clamps. It puts more pressure on the gasket.

Good luck.


----------



## Ukrainetz (Jul 11, 2007)

is plumbers putty safe to use for something like this? (mistergreen's problem)... they are designed for house water supplies, so they are safe for us. Does anyone know if the same applies for aquariums? (I assume they don't leech anything into the water)


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

plumber's putty should be fine when cured.

I think the critter vittle is one body and just the lid.

And I'll look into the silicon grease.


Good thing I designed it so all the attachments are on the lid... I just need to buy a new bucket.


----------



## RoyalFizbin (Mar 7, 2006)

Ukrainetz said:


> is plumbers putty safe to use for something like this? (mistergreen's problem)... *they are designed for house water supplies, so they are safe for us.* Does anyone know if the same applies for aquariums? (I assume they don't leech anything into the water)


Plumbers putty never comes into contact with supply lines. It's used as a gasket in drains, particularly it's used to seal the strainer basket to your sink or tub. I don't know how safe it would be but i know that it wont take much pressure.


----------



## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

I'm kicking myself for not reading this thread earlier...Is the Quiet One really that bad? I just got one with my Big Al's order to run my canister...I really hope it's not too loud.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

It's not THAT bad. I mean it will be louder than a "normal" canister motor. What happened with mine was that I tested my setup in the bathtub and the whole bathroom vibrated.

Later I used it as a water change pump and the noise level sitting in a water filled bucket was quite alright. You can always put something soft around it to reduce humming and vibrations, as long as it doesn't completely close it up which might make it run a bit hot...


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

fishscale said:


> I'm kicking myself for not reading this thread earlier...Is the Quiet One really that bad? I just got one with my Big Al's order to run my canister...I really hope it's not too loud.


I put mine inside my canister, so that damps the noise somewhat. Under these conditions, it's quieter than the DVD drive in the xbox 360, quieter than the fridge in the other room, and about the same volume as the tetratec air pump I have.

One aspect of the pump that _can_ make a lot of noise though is a cooling chamber that runs parallel to the impeller. If a bubble of air gets trapped in there then it vibrates noisily. You can purge the bubble by stopping and starting the pump once or twice. It would also help to orient the pump so that the intake points straight up.

Dunno. It's not too big a deal. I'm still largely satisfied with the pump I got my complaints, sure, but I'm not sure it can be beat for the price.


----------



## Divine Winds (Feb 16, 2008)

I actually just built my own canister filter out of pvc, basically a tube with those threaded end caps on either end, in which I drilled a hole and forcefully screwed in a 3/8 barb. Disadvantages: messy disassembly without a handy bucket, tools required to dismantle; Advantages: strong seal (takes ~300gph with no leaks), simple design, durable to shock, easy to fill with media. 2 days so far and no problems. I power it with an external pump (forget the model), positioned to push the water through. So far, way more current than its former hob filter.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Divine Winds said:


> I actually just built my own canister filter out of pvc, basically a tube with those threaded end caps on either end, in which I drilled a hole and forcefully screwed in a 3/8 barb. Disadvantages: messy disassembly without a handy bucket, tools required to dismantle; Advantages: strong seal (takes ~300gph with no leaks), simple design, durable to shock, easy to fill with media. 2 days so far and no problems. I power it with an external pump (forget the model), positioned to push the water through. So far, way more current than its former hob filter.


I thought about doing something like that. What diameter pipe are you using? The large stuff is pretty expensive, but yeah, I'm sure that a damn fine filter could be made of PVC. It's certainly more rigid and easier to seal than the lock & lock containers I've used. I'm not sure I'd use a threaded endcap on both ends though. For ease of cleaning, I've considered whether I'd build it with a flange and a flat plate that attaches with multiple thumbscrews around the perimeter, sorta like an FX5. I wouldn't do PVC at all unless I could get 25-30 in^2 of media in there though, hence my question about pipe diameter.


----------



## Divine Winds (Feb 16, 2008)

Hmm, I don't recall offhand but I think it was 6in diameter, and about 12in long. I bought some 30ppi? filter sponges designed for a canister model, traced the pvc on them and cut on the outer edge of the pipe and squished them in, about three inches thick, and added the media bag of those bio ceramic tube things from the hob. Overall, it holds slightly more media than the hob I was using before, and has a greater flow rate so I'm assuming it's an improvement, though it could always be extended with another part to a greater length. It also fits perfectly between the shelf of the aquarium stand and the wall, positioned so the flow comes from the bottom up through the filter. Also, I used brass barbs and teflon tape on the threads. I think its simple design looks pretty cool as well. Total cost was about $30, but there were some unnecessary items included that I didn't use, and pvc cement isn't cheap. I think it's pretty cost effective.

At the moment, I'm running it in conjunction with the hob until the filter media establishes, but my main goal was to remove the unsightly hob alltogether. I will also design a CO2 reactor to add to the assembly in the future, so I can get the reactor out of the tank.

Lessons learned: get a drill, as methodically boring a 3/4" hole through 3mm pvc with a knife is painful; also, wear gloves, as the force required to manually crank the unit together led to many slips, cuts on sharp edges, and choice word usage.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Divine Winds said:


> Hmm, I don't recall offhand but I think it was 6in diameter, and about 12in long. I bought some 30ppi? filter sponges designed for a canister model, traced the pvc on them and cut on the outer edge of the pipe and squished them in, about three inches thick, and added the media bag of those bio ceramic tube things from the hob. Overall, it holds slightly more media than the hob I was using before, and has a greater flow rate so I'm assuming it's an improvement, though it could always be extended with another part to a greater length. It also fits perfectly between the shelf of the aquarium stand and the wall, positioned so the flow comes from the bottom up through the filter. Also, I used brass barbs and teflon tape on the threads. I think its simple design looks pretty cool as well. Total cost was about $30, but there were some unnecessary items included that I didn't use, and pvc cement isn't cheap. I think it's pretty cost effective.
> 
> At the moment, I'm running it in conjunction with the hob until the filter media establishes, but my main goal was to remove the unsightly hob alltogether. I will also design a CO2 reactor to add to the assembly in the future, so I can get the reactor out of the tank.
> 
> Lessons learned: get a drill, as methodically boring a 3/4" hole through 3mm pvc with a knife is painful; also, wear gloves, as the force required to manually crank the unit together led to many slips, cuts on sharp edges, and choice word usage.


Sounds like a pretty sweet filter. That's about the same dimensions as my Lock & Lock and most other canister filters. PVC would let you do something tall and skinny if you wanted, but I don't think that's a very good geometry if you're going for axial flow. I've also thought about radial flow filters akin to household water filters. You should definitely post pics of your build, because it sounds like people could learn from your design.

And yes, get a drill. I use mine more than any other tool I own.


----------



## Divine Winds (Feb 16, 2008)

Always good to hear positive comments.

I figured the dimensions weren't that important considering it's for a 29gal, though if I wanted to get complicated I could construct multiple units and connect them in parallel, hehe (or at that point just buy a unit). But yes, I'll definitely post some pictures of the finished product when I get home tonight.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Please do, I am interested as well. You mentioned a 3/8 barb, do all 300 gal/hour go through that? Sounds like some phenomenal pressure.

How do you take it apart for cleaning without draining the entire tank? Do you use some sort of union valves or quick shutoff valves?


----------



## Divine Winds (Feb 16, 2008)

Got home later than I expected, so no pics yet. I did, however, perform a self-gph test, and it's actually around 200 (with some obvious margin of error); the pump is rated 300. Still, that overturns the tank 6.5-7 times an hour, which I believe is in the commonly accepted range, though I know opinions vary. The actual dimentions of the unit are around 5.5" diameter and a length of about 9", so slightly smaller that I thought, but I still have the previously stated 3" of foam filter and bag of ceramic bio-noodles.

Also, I meant 5/8 (sorry if I said 3/8, I was at work when I made the post and somewhat distracted). Yeah, I wouldn't do 3/8 tubing with 200gph--I think that would push the limits of diy, and the patience of my girlfriend were that to fail.

As for cleaning--well I haven't gotten that far yet. For now I pull the tubes out of the water and wedge them between the hood and aquarium, then put the pump (the lowest part in the system) in a bucket and disconnect a tube. Not the most efficient, but effective for now. Tomorrow, I plan to acquire parts for a co2 reactor, so I'll look into shutoffs of some sort.

And I'll post pics, as soon as I find my camera, but it's nice to know there's interest in my project (and still no leaks!)


----------



## erthlng (Feb 8, 2008)

Interesting thread, just what I was looking for.

I'm actually converting a small Pontec canister pond filter for use with my 120g tank. The reason for this is that I want to run it off a 12volt centrifugal pump rated at 315gph. The reason for the 12volt pump is that I want to eventually run it off of a solar panel/battery system. The canister is really nice because it is relatively cheap ($40) and already designed to take the hydro pressure. I easily removed the two large hose couplings on the canister and I'm replacing them with bulkheads attached to barb adapters that will output to the pump and accept the intake from the tank bulkhead. I was planning on mounting the pump directly on the top of the canister to draw the water through the filter rather than pushing it into the filter. Is there a problem with setting up the pump this way? If the canister burps, the position of the pump at the top of the canister should allow any gases that are vented, to flow right through the pump and back to the tank. Am I correct in assuming this?


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

erthlng said:


> I was planning on mounting the pump directly on the top of the canister to draw the water through the filter rather than pushing it into the filter. Is there a problem with setting up the pump this way? If the canister burps, the position of the pump at the top of the canister should allow any gases that are vented, to flow right through the pump and back to the tank. Am I correct in assuming this?


That is the design used by every canister filter I've looked at, so I think you should be fine. In fact, if you look at the larger Eheim Classics (and maybe their other filters too, dunno since I've never owned one) it's just an Eheim Hobby pump sitting on top of the canister, pulling water through the filter and pushing it back to the tank.

If the canister burps a lot of air all at once then you're in trouble, but my experience has been that once you have the filter primed, any gas that might get into the filter percolates slowly through the media, so it gets blown through the pump a bit at a time. That's actually how I run my CO2: I just send it into the intake of my filter.

BTW, where do you get this pressurized canister for $40? I'm hitting google, this I gotta see. Edit: Germany, that's where...


----------



## erthlng (Feb 8, 2008)

Swylie,

Do a search on eBay for either a Pontec PF 800 or a Pontec PF 1600. There are a couple of folks on there that offer them in the 49 to 40 dollar range and have make an offer listings. I did a lowball of $40 and got one. Keep an eye on the shipping cost, some of these folks make up for the low price by adding excessive shipping. I've also seen used versions of both these filters on craigs list. Use a search query on Google like:
site:craigslist.org Pontec
or 
site:craigslist.org "pond filter"

I just got the bulkheads and the barb adapters today. Here is what they look like assembled. This is the 12 volt pump I'm going to try to run the system. See: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc12vdcpuw.html

Phil


----------



## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

erthlng said:


> Interesting thread, just what I was looking for.
> 
> I'm actually converting a small Pontec canister pond filter for use with my 120g tank. The reason for this is that I want to run it off a 12volt centrifugal pump rated at 315gph. The reason for the 12volt pump is that I want to eventually run it off of a solar panel/battery system. The canister is really nice because it is relatively cheap ($40) and already designed to take the hydro pressure. I easily removed the two large hose couplings on the canister and I'm replacing them with bulkheads attached to barb adapters that will output to the pump and accept the intake from the tank bulkhead. I was planning on mounting the pump directly on the top of the canister to draw the water through the filter rather than pushing it into the filter. Is there a problem with setting up the pump this way? If the canister burps, the position of the pump at the top of the canister should allow any gases that are vented, to flow right through the pump and back to the tank. Am I correct in assuming this?


I have an eheim 2260 and that is exactly how it is. It is basically a 5 gallon bucket with a hobby pump mounted on the lid.


----------



## erthlng (Feb 8, 2008)

fshfanatic,

Thanks for the note. Ok, I'll give it a try. I hope to have this running in a closed test loop, without the tank sometime next. I'll post some photos as I put it together.

Phil


----------



## Divine Winds (Feb 16, 2008)

I finally found my digital camera, so, as I said I would, here are a couple photos of my pvc canister filter project (complete with spilled glue):

And an additional photo of my tank.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Divine Winds said:


> I finally found my digital camera, so, as I said I would, here are a couple photos of my pvc canister filter project (complete with spilled glue)


Is there any pipe in there, or are those just fittings glued together? I was looking at pipe at the store the other day and the big stuff is really expensive if you have to buy a whole ten feet or whatever.


----------



## Divine Winds (Feb 16, 2008)

Nope, just a female end and a female-male adapter glued together. It created a nice cavity for media. The Home Depot where I used to live would sell pvc at specified lengths, so I'm sure someone in your area would do the same, or they were just nice to me I guess.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

So how do you open it up if it is glued together?


----------



## saint27 (Apr 27, 2006)

If I am looking at the pictures right. I think the plugs, with the square end sticking out, unscrew from the main body. It looks similar to the the pipe in my basement that you can unscrew to check or unclog the pipe running out to the septic tank.

There's not a lot of volume in there but very creative if you ask me. :icon_smil


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

saint27 said:


> There's not a lot of volume in there but very creative if you ask me. :icon_smil


I'm beginning to think that off-the-shelf equipment that's designed to seal and hold back water pressure is the way to go for DIY filters. PVC pipe fits the bill. If you made this thing out of six inch PVC, then it would have a usable internal volume of about 3.5 liters. That's not too shabby if you ask me. I have about that much media on my 29g at the moment, and it seems ok.

For what it's worth, I woulda used PVC hose barbs if it had been me because you can use PVC cement to solvent-weld those into place. When it comes to potential for leaks, there's nothing like overkill.


----------



## saint27 (Apr 27, 2006)

You could also use wye fittings and plumb the access and hose barb separately.


----------



## Divine Winds (Feb 16, 2008)

Correct, Saint27, the ends unscrew from the body, allowing access. However, since they contain the barbs, that makes it difficult since I have to either pry the tubing off or twist it. The design is definitely not without flaws, but so far effective.

I preferred brass barbs over pvc as I was afraid of snapping; the force I exerted to attach the barbs was IMMENSE, though I'm sure it would work either way.

And I also came to the same conclusion regarding materials designed for containing water pressure being effective for DIY, which was the basis for my experiment. So, conclusions: effective materials which allow simple designs and plenty of room for improvement, and successful.

Thanks for all the responses, and I look forward to someone else improving on the design (consctructive criticism being the basis for successful diy)!


----------



## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

How well would a hose swivel or quick disconnect hold up to allow the caps to be removed easier? Also, If you use petrolatum on the threads, this will allow them to be removed much easier. PVC to PVC will bind up on the threads real easy. I made a spud gun out of PVC a few years ago and the end plug was almost ruined trying to get it out. After I used petrolatum it never gave me much trouble at all. Really worked great.


----------



## swylie (May 10, 2007)

Joetee said:


> How well would a hose swivel or quick disconnect hold up to allow the caps to be removed easier? Also, If you use petrolatum on the threads, this will allow them to be removed much easier. PVC to PVC will bind up on the threads real easy. I made a spud gun out of PVC a few years ago and the end plug was almost ruined trying to get it out. After I used petrolatum it never gave me much trouble at all. Really worked great.


I prefer silicone grease or teflon tape, but yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I lube up _every_ threaded joint these days, depending on what I want to do with it. Pipe dope, teflon tape, petrolatum, silicone... Unless it's specifically not supposed to be lubed, I lube it.

I've looked at quick-disconnects for hoses, and they also swivel nicely. Unfortunately, the inside diameter can be kind of narrow and some of them have a check valve that closes when you have the two sections disconnected. The check valve would certainly catch detritus, but even if you removed it you'd still have significant flow restriction. I might be willing to use quick disconnects with 1/2" hose and fittings, but any larger and you're better off going with a ball valve and a union.


----------

