# Sand Only As A Substrate For Low Tech Setup



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Okay, I have a spare 5 gallon tank lying around, so I decided I was going to go the root of the Low Maintenance non-C02 set up as per just for exprimentation purposes:
http://www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html

While Onyx Sand is pretty costly and available locally, Leonardite - Black Diamond Brand(as this is the one people who are trying this are using and so I don't want to try any other brand) is next to impossible to find locally. I found one person locally, but he stated that he likely was not carrying it and would have to check and get back to me, that was a week ago and he has not phoned back or returned my calls. I know a supplier in Toronto that sells it, but with shipping, it is gonna be pretty expensive.

Anyway, I went to a Local Fish Store to purchase some otos and spoke to a very knowledgeable staff person. We were discussing low maintenance non c02 tanks. She swore that she had set up a 5 gallon hex, just like mine with a biowheel(she did not remove it) and set up a planted tank using nothing more than 1 inch of Hagen Geosystem Substrate sand.:icon_eek: She stated she started the tank with no mulm or peat bottom layer and she does not dose excel or inject C02. She stated that she was using a Compact Fluorescent bulb(12 hour straight photoperiod) from the dollar shop(I am guessing cool white) and was not dosing any ferts at all.:eek5: She stated that her tank was over stocked, and the java fern, java moss, moneywort, and anubias were a lush green color and the java moss was going so fast that it was reaching the surface. She stated that she performed water changes once a month if that and her fish were all healthy. She stated that algae, mostly green dust algae was a problem, but she ignored it and the algae went away. Her advise to me was: let the tank find its own balance. She felt that people were too impatient and made the hobby more complicated than it needed to be. I am wondering if she does not speak the truth since my attempts to convert the same 5 gallon hex with biowheel with 30 watts compact fluorescent, DIY C02 injection,fluorite substrate/Schultz Aquatic soil mixture, EI dosing, and excel dosing, still resulted in a disaster.

I have read that it is not a good idea to use sand only as a substrate. I would be curious to know other peoples' experiences using sand only with low maintenance tank setups. For those who have experimented with different types of sand, onyx, Tahiti Moon Sand, pool filter sand, Hagen GeoSystem substrate, etc., which did you find worked the best??

Thanks


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

I have short term experience with Tahitian moon sand(tms), and another brand of sand that is much finer, like a powder. 

I absolutely love the tms. Foreground plants like dwarf hairgrass and marsilea sp. are doing great. Stem plants that I have grown successfully include rotala rotundifolia, hygro difformis, mint charlie, downoi, aponongeton sp., moneywort, and foxtail.

I dose Ei in that tank, and have DIY CO2. It has about 2.5 WPG half the week, and 4.2 WPG half the week. I am extremely happy with the substrate. It's very easy to plant in, no food getting trapped between the particles of substrate. 

The finer sand I bought for a 10 gallon tank, I am fairly happy with. The only complaint I have with it is that:

1. it shows too much poop. I've got a ton of snails in this tank, and they create tons of poop. The black sand in the other tank does not show poop, but tan or white sand certainly will.
2. It's hard to plant in. Super fine sand will fight you when you try to plant stems densely. Once the plants take root, they will stay put pretty well, but my short rooted dwarf hairgrass occasionally still pulls up. 

In conclusion, sand is a great substrate because it's inert, and you can control the amount of ferts in the water column more easily. Go for the larger grain size and I think you'll be happy.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

I've used pool filter sand with success. Plants held nicely and seemed to do well.

Just be careful with the really fine stuff like play sand. I've never had a good experience with it. My Crypts died after a month of being in it.....only tank they have EVER died in. Blame it on the sand, blame in on a coincidence. You decide.

Rex Grigg has posted a lot of information on using sand in various applications.


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

I have a sand only substrate. It's not as fine as regular sand, but a bit larger, like pool filter sand (as I was told). I have them in both a 20 gallon long and a 29 gallon tank. I use Coralife's 30" T5 fluorescent lamps, which produce about 36 watts. I use no ferts. Both tanks have RCS, amano, and bamboo shrimps. The 20 gallon long contain 2 L-046 zebra plecos and an L-183 starlight bristlenose pleco.

Both of these tanks have excellent growth with plants.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Thanks guys, that is a lot of good and useful information  So, it sounds like Tahitian Moon Sand(I have some left over) and pool filter sand may work well.


http://www.rexgrigg.com/sand.jpg

Burks: Rex on the one hand states that Onyx sand is a good substrate to use but also posts this picture of what he considers as a "good" sand to use. However, this looks more like pea sized gravel than sand. I just found that confusing.









I heard some types of sand can buffer the PH of water. Hagen GeoSystem Substrate states on the package that it may buffer the PH of a tank. Has anyone experienced any problems with their tanks resulting from such buffering.


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## killerproblem (Jul 30, 2006)

I ran my 240LT with plaground sand for allmost 2 years no problems from the sand... local water heh thats annother story....but it is a silica based sand inert to the PH, i added sechem's root tabs and the tank was lit by 6 odno t8's (3x setup about 350watt total ) mostly fast growing speices and common stuff (way to many to list here) the lagudia repens (sp?) was allways overgrowing the tank with no c02 and only occasinal liquid ferts added. the sand did tend to get covered in debris rather quickly... i used a hefty layer of it too almost 7 inches in some places...
as a inert base to work from it seems to be fine...


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## LordMaximo (Aug 31, 2007)

If you really want to do the true low budget plant tank? Go down to your local lake od stream bed and dig up some dirt. Put about 1" of this under .5" of fine pea gravel. That is as natural of a bed as you can get. And trust me, after spending most my life in Florida, this is how we did our plant tanks back there in the south. I left most of mine out on the racks in the back yard. 

Everything grew that was placed in the tanks. Of coarse, leaving them outside was open to birds to swim in and other local crtiters to strole by, but what the heck, nothing wrong with a squirle or two taken an afternoon splash....lol......natural tanks are the best, no air filters at all, just plain old moter nature, or you could add a small pump to just circulate the water and give even more of a natural flow. Of coarse you do need to get your regular feedings of lake water or stream water, no contaminents except the regular run off of your area. Meaning no artificial additives for tap water cleanings. 

This is what you asked for, low budget natural eco-habitat. Keep it in the back yard with a screaned lizard lid and it will flourish very well. Or leave it open for the local yard vritters to enjoy as well, just like a pond, but only on a rack. 

Its when we all start playing like a god of some sort to create the un-natural settings. All these super clean tanks and polished plant farms. I like the natural murkey pond scene with a couple minows swimming around, only waiting for a bird to drop in for the meal........lol........ 8>) Maximo


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

LordMaximo said:


> If you really want to do the true low budget plant tank? Go down to your local lake od stream bed and dig up some dirt. Put about 1" of this under .5" of fine pea gravel. That is as natural of a bed as you can get. And trust me, after spending most my life in Florida, this is how we did our plant tanks back there in the south. I left most of mine out on the racks in the back yard.
> 
> Everything grew that was placed in the tanks. Of coarse, leaving them outside was open to birds to swim in and other local crtiters to strole by, but what the heck, nothing wrong with a squirle or two taken an afternoon splash....lol......natural tanks are the best, no air filters at all, just plain old moter nature, or you could add a small pump to just circulate the water and give even more of a natural flow. Of coarse you do need to get your regular feedings of lake water or stream water, no contaminents except the regular run off of your area. Meaning no artificial additives for tap water cleanings.
> 
> ...


Thanks that sounds like a really cool idea and something to consider in the future. These are always tough decisions, but right now I have to decide on of of two courses of action for a 5 gallon.

http://www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html

or 

http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTankDemo.html

I have decided to go with option one right now. Ideally, I would like to try both and have enough spare tanks lieing around to test both side by side. The problem is that when space is limited and finances are limited. I would have to purchase more plants and plants are super expensive locally and I never have much success with the ones I purchase on line, except for tiger lotuses.

Regards


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## LordMaximo (Aug 31, 2007)

*The basic yard pond only in sub-fragment.*

This is the kind of stuff I was involved with back in the mid 70's when I lived in Florida. We would take tanks and gather as many plants from the local lakes in the hood, and see how they would grow in the tanks. We used regular daylight, of coarse down in Fla, the sun was always out. Perfact growing year round. 
Anyways, I found, if your tank was only 2/3 full of water, you have a small pond pump to move the water, your tanks would grow at a relatively good rate. My best was creating water falls and having 1/2 the space as a low embankment type growth area, and the other 1/2 was a pool for fish. If you used a 10gl tank, you could only have small minnows or guppies in the pools.
But with a 30gl tall tank, wow, it was great. You could ahve a small jungle at your finger tips. Waterfall in one of the back corners at about 1/3 the height of the tank for the sump pool, which is fed by a direct leveling tube from the bottom of the main pool. All sorts of water plants and small mangrove trees.
This is how I learned to do bonsi trees, cause you need to keep the trees propertional to the tank area.
I have not set up an eco system like this in years, but it takes about a week to get it in motion. NO Co2 injection was used, just plain old mother nature doing all she was worth. Of coarse you need to have your pH at 6.5 to start this system off correctly. I have found in the past, 6.5 was the magic number to getting most any garden to grow properly. my water out here in the desert is over 8.2 from the tap, and I really have not yet been as ambishes as I was then to gather my materials just to culture the water required for such a project.
Any ways, good luck to those of you have good working water for such a simple jungle.:red_mouth Maximo


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