# Chayos00's 125g tank journal (Updated 10/17/2021)



## chayos00

*Build Update Post #1*

(Former beginning post)
Hello all! Thanks for checking out my build.

I started with an aquarium as a kid getting a 20g tank when I was a little kid and had it till about 2006. I never really did much for having good looking aquascaping in the past, but early last year my coworker showed me planted aquascaping and I was amazed and wanted to get back into having a tank. I ended up with a Tetra 3g cube that I have running on my desk at home, I have a Betta, 2 dwarf frogs, some nerite snails, and some ghost shrimp (provided they don't disappear, I think the betta eats them). I'm keeping that one heavily planted in a low tech setup, with some Java Fern, Anubis Nana, and some Ludwigia. So I finally talked my wife into getting another larger tank and that's when I went on the craigslist hunt for what I describe below.

So I've picked up a former 125g saltwater tank from a craigslist deal for about $325. It included the stand, canopy, and some crappy equipment. Turns out the stand was junk and so was the equipment. I attempted to recover the stand, but there was an accident destroying the stand while I attempted to get it prepped for refinishing. 

My tank plan is to be a heavily planted community tank that is more so on the low tech side of things. Fish and plants to be determined later. I don't want to add CO2, but part of me wants to, so maybe one day after getting the tank up and running for a year or so. For the sump I'm going to keep it strictly filtration. I was initially thinking of running some biomedia, filter floss, and some ceramic rings. But yesterday I came across poret filter media and I'm now not sure exactly what I want to do. Oh well I've got time still.

I've been browsing the reef community on several forums and I'm finding some great ideas about how to design the sump and other features. For example splitting the heater into 2-3 units versus one giant heater as I've determined from an article on the BeanAnimal site that I need anywhere from 900w down to about 180w depending upon the room temps. I used 68*F for a low and 74*F for the high room temp with a tank estimated temp of 78*F. However I never run my house that low in the winter, yes I live in the desert and it usually doesn't get too cold here and if it does, you bet I'm using my homes heater!! On average I should need only 200-300w to maintain the tank, yes that is not including the lighting or the pump in the sump tank.

I also was reading an article about power strips and after reading that article I'm going to make my own power panel in the stand using standard home outlets, yes I'll seal everything for moisture. I also have an electronics background so this won't be an issue for me. I might have to end up bringing in a dedicated power line for the aquarium, as my den has my PC and is only a 15A circuit as well as who knows what else the builder wired into that circuit. Once I get all my equipment figured out I'll do the math and see how much power this thing is going to draw to determine if I need the dedicated circuit. I do however want to get the sump running with a battery backup for temporary power outages, mainly during monsoon season when we can get some nasty storms that can knock the power out. 

On to the tank build:

Here's the tank being leak tested/decontaminated using 10ppm bleach being run overnight. As I wanted to ensure there was no cross over from the saltwater bacterium. This was the "filter" they were running on their tank, it's a reef octopus skimmer, but it worked for a great circulation pump for me @ 2000L/hr or ~500gph.









Stand after I removed the damaged MDF from where they let the saltwater get under the tank.









I sanded the stand down to remove the "painted" on stain that they tried to restain the stand with. As well as I wanted to beef up the structure so I built a 2x4 header to strengthen this stand.









I made the mistake of putting the front and back headers together before putting them in the stand and one got stuck while going in and was hanging in the air, I turned my back to go flip the garage light switch and the whole thing fell over and popped every single nail that was used to put it together out. So this is what remains of the stand..... Well this was before I took it camping with me and turned it into a bond fire!!










So I started from scratch on the stand build after a two month frustration hiatus. I did lots of googling stand builds and finally decided upon a design for the framing. Here is where it currently sits. The front two support beams are only just wedged in as I'm still deciding how I'm going to do my cabinet doors. The dimensions for the stand are 73"L x 24"D, as one day I plan to use this stand in the hope of coming across a 240g tank that's 24" deep.









So I couldn't decide upon what I wanted to cover the exterior with so I went hunting for some better lumber sources than Lowes or Home Depot. I found this store on the southside of town with over 100 varieties of wood to choose from. Most of it was rough cut 4/4 boards that were from 6" -12" in width, but as I'm not a skilled woodworker I had no idea how to use 98% of what they sold. The place is Woodworkers Source Your Friendly Lumber Supplier. So due to the fact that the venered wood sheets I would use were in the $100-150 range, I decided I would not go that route and instead head back to the big box stores. So after going and looking with my wife I am going to use Pine, as I can find decent pine trim pieces between Lowes & HD.

*Equipment List:*

125g display tank
55g sump tank (thanks petsmart for the $1 a gallon sale!)
Jebao DC-12000 water pump
Going with a BeanAnimal style overflow setup
3 1.5" bulkheads slip x slip (I'll be using a 60mm ( 2 3/8" inch) THK Diamond coated drill bit [Ebay Item # 130882833423] for drilling the bulkhead holes. From the seller "lau**". As well as using an Adjustable Hole Saw Guide to help me drill the holes.
RANCO ETC-111000 Digital Cold Temperature Control to run my 3 Eheim Jager 200W heaters
DIY Lighting - [STRIKE]Home Depot reflectors and some CFL bulbs, so the plan is to have up to 8 lamps for use. I'll probably mix lower wattage with higher wattage bulbs to simulate daylight intensity changes throughout the day.[/STRIKE] LED Lighting Fixture

I know I'm missing some stuff, but it's late and my brain is starting to shut down on me. More to come as the build goes on!


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## chayos00

*Build Update Post #2*

Time for that future update. Part 1.

I do have more detailed pictures during the build of the canopy, but I didn't post every one of them, however if someone asks I can.

Lots of searching lead me to build what I did for the canopy, didn't draw anything up first. Also if you wonder why the canopy back rail is further in than to the full back, it's because I designed this to be 24" deep for a future upgrade to a 180G tank, rail is set to the depth of the 125g tank.

Stand prior to interior painting









Post painting/sealing









Making the outer skin









Base skinned









Base skinned side shot (had of a bit of an issue with true square, so you'll see some defects if you look hard enough..... but please don't :icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf I will fix this once I start prepping the wood for stain) 









Canopy without the front door/lid









Canopy with front hinged lid









Canopy with front hinged lid









Canopy side shot w/lid









Canopy frame on tank


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## chayos00

*Build Update Post #3*

Wow it's been a LONG time since I've updated this post. But also had lots of life activities keeping me busy.

So the physical build of the stand is pretty much done at this point. I'm currently working on my urethane coating on the stand at this point, which has been a challenge all on it's own.

The trim was a pain for me to get right. Took a while to figure out the 45° cuts to make them butt up together, the canopy isn't perfect, but I got the stand much more accurate. I found some trim that I thought looked good at Home Depot. The first go round, I cut it all too short, so back to the store to do it again.... but I got it right at that point. You might notice a pieces of wood along the top of the canopy, well those are what I used to nail the canopy trim to hold it to. The front piece has one along the whole top as well.

For the staining method I used was as per _this article_. However I do have this to say about using gel stain, after the first coat is applied it's like attempting to lightly paint a little on so that you aren't just wasting your time and wiping it right off. So after getting the darkness I liked, I moved on to putting the Arm-R-Seal satin topcoat on. Had some issues that reddit's r/woodworking was able to point me in the right direction. So right now I'm at the point where I'm building up my topcoat layers to make it thick enough of a protective coating. 

The doors took some thinking of how I was to make mount the panel insert in the center of the door. I finally settled on using these really short nail gun nails and basically stapling them into the outer frame. I put several straight into the front of the frame and then after that I went between them and put others at a 45° angle to hold the panels in place. I then got to staining the doors after the stand and the canopy as I was limited on space to set everything. 

The inside of the canopy will get painted white, just haven't gotten to that part yet. I'm also going to have to put another layer inside the stand as I've gotten some of the gel stain on the paint that stained it brown. 

So yeah, I think that's about where I'm up to on this.













First bit of coloring on the stand. I believe this is just the wood dye at this point.








Worked on the doors after the canopy and stand due to space issue, so I was trying to color match as best I could.


Had some issues with the Arm-R-Seal satin after a few coats it got cloudy, after another post online it was recommended to go with gloss as that doesn't have any flatteners it in causing cloudy looking seal issues. So once I've got enough protection on, I'll put on a coat of semi-gloss or satin, depending upon what my test samples turn out like.


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## chayos00

*Final Build Update Post #4*

So time for another update! The stand and canopy build is finally finished!! I have the final coat of urethane on and if there's any imperfections, I don't care anymore I am done! LOL I am FINALLY done! I way over did this to make it a furniture grade stand. I can say I will never do that again!! However I hope you like it! Now to get the tank resealed, drilled, plumbed, and my overflow setup!










































































DIY Overflow:
Here's my DIY on my ghost overflow that I'm making. I initially was going to do a glass setup till I saw Joey (King of DIY) make one out of acrylic for his goldfish tank and I was inspired. However as I didn't have a table saw, I was able to find a friend who did and he let me borrow it, however I upgraded the blade to a 10" 90 tooth one to get the smoothest cuts I could get. One quick tip was to slide the piece back and forth once the last tooth cut was made to smooth out the blades rough cut edges. I don't have it glued up yet, but will be doing so as soon as I get the mounting surface prepped for gluing. Here's the pics of the overflow so far.

Internal overflow box - 36" L x 5" H x 2" D
External plumbing box - 23" L x 7" H x 6" D
1.5" bulkheads, 3 to be drilled in the tank to hold the overflows together and 3 for the beananimal drain system I will be using.

I wanted to try a router, but the setup I was working with wasn't keeping it stable enough to get straight cuts, however I have since seen a method that would have probably worked if I ever do it again.

Internal box has the teeth, the outside box is the other one.









Close up of the inside teeth









Next is the overflow, this is finally done! WOOT WOOT!! I have a friend coming over today to help place the tank on the stand so I can get the plumbing for the overflow started.













































Power Panel Update:
Here's one of the ADJ PC-100A









Two panels mounted, if a third is needed then I can use the center door to mount another one.









Here's an up close view of one where it's mounted. 









A shot from the back showing the board I used to get the panel at the right height. Notice there's no mounting hardware visible from under the power panel? LOL











I'm about 90%+ done now. Just trying to figure out some final details on my plumbing before flooding the setup and seeing if it holds water. Which will run in the garage for about 2 weeks before it comes in the house. It's been a long journey, but glad it's almost done!!!

I also have my DIY LED light fixture figured out, I've got all parts on hand now, minus the wiring. Which I will work on that while I'm leak testing the system.

This picture does it no justice as to how big this setup really is. It's a 125g tank which is 72" long by 18" wide. The stand is right at 7 feet tall and 6'8" wide.









More updates below.
Here's the inside of the stand as viewed from the back side. 









The entire back side.









View of the return pipe from the top.









View of the return from inside the tank.









Pipe from the pump to bypass the tank as needed, or to adjust the flow through the tank. 









Pump plumbing.











Last night I worked on the overflow plumbing some to get it tuned just right. I've gotten the overflow quiet and starting a full flow within 30 seconds or so. 

My return pump is a Jebao DC12000 that I got about 2 years ago or so. I know I've seen reviews about them either being loud or not lasting or something else wrong. There's a bit of a turbine type sound to it, but in the garage the back is wide open, so not sure how it will sound in the house. The most noise is coming from the sump divider where the return water comes in, as it's coming over the edge and falling down about 2" there's an air bubble under it and it churns the water and makes a bit of water fall type noise. So anyway's I tested the return pump flow going into the tank last night using a 5 gallon bucket and some additional tubing to direct the flow where needed. I had my wife time me filling the bucket. There's 6 speeds on this pump and I tested the flow and power consumption at each setting. 

I assume the total water volume would be about 160 gallons in the 180 total possible system. 
6 - 99 watts - 12.97 seconds - 1387.81 gph - 8.67x turnover rate
5 - 82 watts - 14.57 seconds - 1235.41 gph - 7.72x turnover rate
4 - 66 watts - 17.34 seconds - 1038.06 gph - 6.48x turnover rate
3 - 50 watts - 19.75 seconds - 911.39 gph - 5.69x turnover rate
2 - 37 watts - 24.10 seconds - 746.88 gph - 4.66x turnover rate
1 - 27 watts - 32.30 seconds - 557.27 gph - 3.48x turnover rate

I'm thinking of running the pump at either speeds of 4 or 5, however as the tank is currently bare, I can't really see how the flow of water at that rate will affect the substrate or the plants or fish. 

Now I never saw any other DC pumps when I bought this a few years ago, however I've now seen the Ecotech Marine DC pumps and besides for their cost, I wonder if I should save up some money to buy one of their pumps in case or for when the Jebao pump may go out. What sucks is that depending upon the pump it's either $349 (M1) or $449 (L1).



Alright another big update! I move the tank/stand inside the house! Woot Woot! I got the tank in the house before baby #2 is here next week.... OMG Next week?!?! I'm not ready for that yet! LOL

I got the lift cylinders from Western Marine that are Taylor Made and are supposedly rated for marine use, well I picked up two 20lbs cylinders as not knowing anything about cylinders and I couldn't get the formula, or was too lazy to try, I just went with about what the lid weighed. Well it lifts easier, but doesn't hold it up. So I ordered 2 of 40lbs and 2 60lbs shocks to hope that one of these will hold the damned thing! Before the current shocks the doors weighed in at about 40lbs but now they are coming in at 15lbs, so hopefully the 40lbs shocks will do the trick. Luckily there's a 30 day window to return what I don't need. So hopefully one of these shocks coming in tomorrow will be the right ones I need. 

Going through the front door!









Inside the entryway.









Damn it, there's always gotta be a touch of carnage! When moving off the furniture dolly from outside the house as we were pushing it in this drug on the dolly and pulled right out from the brad nails that were holding it on. Oh well.... $hit happens! I will be gluing it back on.









Time to check level.... wait what?!









Holy crap I didn't even have to level the stand! This is inside the bottom of the tank, she's level! Wow!!! I'm surprised the guys laying the foundation did it right in this house, as my previous house was way off when my dad and I tiled the place.









Here she is in the den. Luckily the piece that broke off is in the back corner, however it will get fixed soon. (I know the flag in the flag case isn't folded correctly, but I've never gotten around to fixing it after my dad gave it to me. I'll get it one day.)









Anyone coming to my front door will get to see a nice treat while they wait for me to get to the door now. (The round purple on the right side of the pic is my wife's belly, she's about 38 or 39 weeks along.)


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## zetvi

Subbed. Those last four posts supposed to have pictures? Because i don't see any!


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## chayos00

zetvi said:


> Subbed. Those last four posts supposed to have pictures? Because i don't see any!


No those 4 spots are left blank on purpose so that way as I get more good updates I can edit those posts going forward. That way instead of all having to go through the entire thread when there are multiple pages it will be all on the first page.


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## crazymittens

To save you some grief, don't go 1.5" on all your drains. I have almost the exact same setup, 1.5" primary siphon for the GPH you'll probably end up running will not work well.

If I had it to do over, I'd do 1" on the primary, ensure I was running at least 800-900GPH net (after losses), and use 1.5" for the secondary/emergency.

Also - just limiting the intake on the primary doesn't work. You'd need to limit the size of the drain pipe to allow the siphon to maintain some consistency.

Sub'd! Good luck!


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## chayos00

crazymittens said:


> To save you some grief, don't go 1.5" on all your drains. I have almost the exact same setup, 1.5" primary siphon for the GPH you'll probably end up running will not work well.
> 
> If I had it to do over, I'd do 1" on the primary, ensure I was running at least 800-900GPH net (after losses), and use 1.5" for the secondary/emergency.
> 
> Also - just limiting the intake on the primary doesn't work. You'd need to limit the size of the drain pipe to allow the siphon to maintain some consistency.
> 
> Sub'd! Good luck!


I was just looking at your build thread last night. Thanks for the tip on downsizing the main siphon line. I'll keep the bulkhead at the 1.5" size and then just adapt down to a 1" line.


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## chayos00

A few weeks ago I was out camping in the mountains where we happen to have Manzanita wood all around and I picked up a piece that I liked. Yes they are a bit on the large size, but nothing that some trimming down won't fix. I also found an old starter mine (only went about 200 feet in and then stopped) in the area that had some neat looking rock pieces that may get used as well. Yes I will ensure they are "cured" and cleaned as much as possible.

Manzanita Wood - This still requires some trimming to fit in the tank, but it's close. My coworker tells me I should take it to get sandblasted, but I'd have to do some hunting to find someone who does this.









Here's another piece I found laying around that I thought looked cool! Through the tall piece it's semi hollow as well as the under side if it sat on the ground has some clearance for a hiding spot for some fish that likes to hide.









I picked up a water tank heater from Amazon that should heat up some water past 150*F to try and help me to try and boil the wood. I just need to get a container large enough to fit the wood. Also would a brute trash can handle the high temp water if that's all I can find? Also with the heat I would imagine something would leach out of it too. I saw a guy on CraigsList selling a 55g food grade metal drum that was used for his rainwater collection, would something like that be best to use?


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## Menace

Very cool. Can't wait to see what you do with it all.

As for the boiling of the driftwood. Any container will be fine as long as it's clean and holds water. Just make sure that the wood is and has been dead for a while so it doesn't leak sap or any of that sort.


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## crazymittens

Pressure washer for the driftwood if you want to clean it up. Sand blasting would cost a good chunk, and would probably end up destroying the wood (if anyone even took the job).


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## chayos00

Menace said:


> Very cool. Can't wait to see what you do with it all.
> 
> As for the boiling of the driftwood. Any container will be fine as long as it's clean and holds water. Just make sure that the wood is and has been dead for a while so it doesn't leak sap or any of that sort.


So the large brute trash can was about $45 bucks for the 44g container. I ended up contacting the guy from craigslist and he still has the 55g metal drum and he's selling it for $24 so I am going to go take a look at it today. Half the price and being metal I won't have to worry about if the plastic will have any issues heating up. 

For the non Manzanita wood I can tell that's been dead a while. But not really sure on the Manzanita piece. However there it was in a large group of dead wood. I want to get them starting to soak soon to get them fully water logged and cured.






crazymittens said:


> Pressure washer for the driftwood if you want to clean it up. Sand blasting would cost a good chunk, and would probably end up destroying the wood (if anyone even took the job).


Ah never thought of pressure washing! I might go hit up a car wash and test it out on a branch that I didn't post a picture of on a piece I picked up a few months earlier that turned out to be WAY TOO large. If that works and looks good I may do that on the one I posted the picture of. Thanks for the idea!


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## chayos00

Hey guys, I've been trying to figure out how I should water proof my DIY aquarium stand structure. I'm not talking about the exterior finish wood, but the internal structure. My initial thought was some Thompson's water sealer, but I've seen a few few builds using Killz. I do like the idea of painting the stand white on the inside to help see what I'll have inside. Thoughts? Killz and some white paint?? If Killz which variety of it?


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## chayos00

So on Wednesday I ordered a number of items, and I got my Jeabo DC-12000 that came all the way from China on Friday afternoon. Again that was placed on Wednesday night around 10pm Arizona time and got it FRIDAY!! Wow I'm impressed by Fish-Street.com!!!

From Amazon some items shipped from a town 100 miles away and it got here on Friday as well.

So far I've gotten:
Jaebo DC-12000
Ranco Temp Controller
Tom's Dip and Pour container (temporary fish holder cup)


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## crazymittens

I used 3 coats of white paint, but the sump is sealed, so not a lot of moisture gets out.

Dats some nice driftwood.


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## chayos00

crazymittens said:


> I used 3 coats of white paint, but the sump is sealed, so not a lot of moisture gets out.
> 
> Dats some nice driftwood.


Thanks! I've posted this question across 3 different aquarium forums and I am getting some good feedback about what to do. Hearing Thompson's is no good and polyurethane is not too. Either Kilz and paint or just layers of a primer/paint. Or one guy even mentioned using an epoxy finish for sealing off a pan on the bottom. 

I'll have to checkout the local waste management if they are anywhere near me and see what I find there.

Yeah I really do like that driftwood also. On my first hunt for wood I grabbed some pieces that are just way too big to make it work. However so am going to use those pieces to experiment on with pressure washing.... that is if my buddy figures out if one of his two machines work. Otherwise I might have to go use the local car wash, but would rather not for the soap that's probably in those lines. I also picked up a 55g drum from craigslist to soak my wood and try to boil it.


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## ChadRamsey

nice tank. BEAUTIFUL dobe though!:hihi:


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## chayos00

ChadRamsey said:


> nice tank. BEAUTIFUL dobe though!:hihi:


Thanks to both! My dobe is 12 and she's still my baby!


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## chayos00

I got the 1000w bucket heater yesterday and so I trimmed up the driftwood to fit the tank. I had to break out my chainsaw and trim about 3-6" from the bottom of the stump to keep the top of the log in the tank. I also had to break off a number of the branches to get the branch setup in the tank. So with the wood trimmed and the 55g drum cleaned out. It's time to start the soaking!! So with the heater in the tank for a few hours the water went from ~70*F up to 100+*F. However when my wife unplugged it a few hours later she commented to me how the extension chord was quite warm. The heater was pulling right @ 1000-1015 watts of power, so that equates to about 8.4A @ 120VAC. The chord is a 12 gauge ridgid branded chord. I do have a 100 foot 10 gauge chord that I'm going to run out to my power panel to use the 20A circuit I have wired into an outlet coming from the bottom of the box. This way if there is overheating issues, then that extension chord can burn up outside and not through the walls of my house!!!


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## chayos00

Got my 3 200W Jager heaters yesterday along with my bulkheads from bulkreefsupply.com. Today I got my hole saw guide for drilling the glass.

On a side note that 55 gallon drum is plumb full of some nasty tannins! Before dumping it I'm curious to see what my ph will be. I'm going to dump the barrel about once a week due to it being a TON of water to drain each time. I do have that reef octopus skimmer "stirring" the water up, and that's getting some nasty black stuff foaming up through the little catch tray. Seeing what this thing is pulling out of this barrel, I might test it with my tank once I get it up and running.

I've also been doing of thinking about how I'm going to design the stand. I'm probably going to go with 2 doors that are about 32W x 30T. The only issues is finding material that would be the proper width to make this work.


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## aquarist

How do you like your Jebao 1200? I am looking to replace my current external pump with something wake because its so noisy. I was looking at the variable speed pumps so I can fine tune my flow, I also really like the "feed" button on there. The aquarium I am looking to use it on is a 180 gallon, so with the sump around 200 gallons total, and would be running about 8 feet of tubing for each over flow. Was thinking about getting two pumps, one for each return line, but wanted to see what your experience with this pump was. 

Bet regards,
AQ


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## chayos00

aquarist said:


> How do you like your Jebao 1200? I am looking to replace my current external pump with something wake because its so noisy. I was looking at the variable speed pumps so I can fine tune my flow, I also really like the "feed" button on there. The aquarium I am looking to use it on is a 180 gallon, so with the sump around 200 gallons total, and would be running about 8 feet of tubing for each over flow. Was thinking about getting two pumps, one for each return line, but wanted to see what your experience with this pump was.
> 
> Bet regards,
> AQ


Unfortunately I don't have my tank up and running yet. I am still building the stand for the tank, which I need to post some updates for. all I have done so far for the pump was to run a test on it while sitting in a tub of water to ensure proper functionality.


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## chayos00

Here is my wood soaking in a 55g drum with a reef octopus skimmer acting as a pump to circulate the water. I have my three heaters in the barrel also as I noticed that the tannins were released quicker at higher temps versus cooler water. So far it's been soaking for about a month and a half. I used bleach about 3 weeks ago and that $hit smell went away after that, man that sure made the garage reek!! 









Last week I finally picked the needed wood to skin the stand. You can also see the barrel I have for soaking the wood. I insulated it as I was trying to boil the water and sitting on the concrete floor sapped all the heat out of it. plus I am sure it lost a bunch of heat throw the side walls too. 









I finally figured out the proper spacing and the doors that I am going to use. So everything is finally screwed into place. The board on the bottom is screwed down, just didn't take an after picture of that step.

Tonight I am going to work on making the tub in the bottom of the stand for any accidental overflows. With the 55g tank there it will hold 14-15 gallons of water using 2x4's.

I just have to maintain motivation!


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## chayos00

Alright so massive update time! So I took week of of work to get some progress done on the stand and canopy. See the 2nd post for an update. Now it's time to make the cabinet doors!

Full Stand & Canopy Shot









Stand Shot









Canopy Shot


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## Ecas32

You have done an absolutely gorgeous job on that stand and hood! Can't wait to see where the rest of this build goes.


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## chayos00

Ecas32 said:


> You have done an absolutely gorgeous job on that stand and hood! Can't wait to see where the rest of this build goes.


Thank you very much for your kind words! I can't wait myself to see how this setup goes!! Just need to get back into action to get those doors done, but other things keep getting in the way of this project. I wish I had another week to take of to finish it!


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## 180g

cant wait to see updates!!! how is the tank doing? also how is your Doberman doing?


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## chayos00

180g said:


> cant wait to see updates!!! how is the tank doing? also how is your Doberman doing?


No more work has been done to the stand yet. I've just been busy and the days I have had free were spent relaxing or getting other more urgent matters done. Yazmin is doing good also! Thanks for asking about her!
Hopefully I can get the cabinet doors done soon!


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## 180g

ok, Yazmin is very beautiful by the way!


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## chayos00

180g said:


> ok, Yazmin is very beautiful by the way!


Thanks! She is my baby girl who's 12.5 years old!


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## 180g

wow! you must be taking very good care of her because she looks very healthy!


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## chayos00

180g said:


> wow! you must be taking very good care of her because she looks very healthy!


Yeah she is pretty healthy, however she does have a neurological degenerative issue that is causing her to drag her feet some, but not too bad at this point. So I am very thankful that is her only issue! Hopefully it doesn't get to the point of her not being able to walk or control her bodily functions back there.


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## chayos00

So last weekend I started to make the cabinet doors, yes I know finally! So initially I planned on making shaker style doors, but instead of the traditional doors I was going to miter the corners at 45* angles, however I could not get the saw calibrated enough to get the proper 45 degrees to be perfect. So I decided to go with the traditional look to the doors. So now all that wood that I had previously routed and planned to just cut at 45's no longer will work. So long story short is I got the door frames all cut out and just need to do some more routing on the framing and put it together, then of course cut out the insert on the panels.


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## chayos00

Wow it's been a LONG time since I've updated this post. But also had lots of life activities keeping me busy.

So the physical build of the stand is pretty much done at this point. I'm currently working on my urethane coating on the stand at this point, which has been a challenge all on it's own.

The trim was a pain for me to get right. Took a while to figure out the 45° cuts to make them butt up together, the canopy isn't perfect, but I got the stand much more accurate. I found some trim that I thought looked good at Home Depot. The first go round, I cut it all too short, so back to the store to do it again.... but I got it right at that point. You might notice a pieces of wood along the top of the canopy, well those are what I used to nail the canopy trim to hold it to. The front piece has one along the whole top as well.

For the staining method I used was as per _this article_. However I do have this to say about using gel stain, after the first coat is applied it's like attempting to lightly paint a little on so that you aren't just wasting your time and wiping it right off. So after getting the darkness I liked, I moved on to putting the Arm-R-Seal satin topcoat on. Had some issues that reddit's r/woodworking was able to point me in the right direction. So right now I'm at the point where I'm building up my topcoat layers to make it thick enough of a protective coating. 

Had some issues with the Arm-R-Seal satin after a few coats it got cloudy, after another post online it was recommended to go with gloss as that doesn't have any flatteners it in causing cloudy looking seal issues. So once I've got enough protection on, I'll put on a coat of semi-gloss or satin, depending upon what my test samples turn out like.

The doors took some thinking of how I was to make mount the panel insert in the center of the door. I finally settled on using these really short nail gun nails and basically stapling them into the outer frame. I put several straight into the front of the frame and then after that I went between them and put others at a 45° angle to hold the panels in place. I then got to staining the doors after the stand and the canopy as I was limited on space to set everything. 

The inside of the canopy will get painted white, just haven't gotten to that part yet. I'm also going to have to put another layer inside the stand as I've gotten some of the gel stain on the paint that stained it brown. 

So yeah, I think that's about where I'm up to on this.

Pics are updated on post number 3. 

Most recent pics taken today.


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## BettaBettas

nice! :0


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## IntotheWRX

nice work on the stand. very crafty. hope to see the tank rocking that stand soon.


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## bellac

This looks absolutely amazing so far, can't wait to see how it pans out. Imagining working with something this big just makes me googly-eyed!!


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## FishyIdea

Looks better than anything you can buy!

Thanks for the tip about putting heaters in with soaking driftwood to speed up tannin release. I got the Malaysian driftwood, so that will be a big help.

Joe


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## chayos00

Thanks for the kind words! 

I just found a local supplier who can get me the acrylic I need to make my DIY overflows. Getting a 48" X 48" sheet of 6mm black acrylic for what I can get a 48 X 24 sheet online. Not just at 52-53 bucks. Plus I found a buddy who has a decent table saw that I can cut it into what I need. Finally nice thinking that I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel! 

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## Greggz

Very, very nice stand build. I built my own several years ago, so I know the thought and labor that goes into it.

But I have to ask.........have you been building this stand for almost 3 years?


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Very, very nice stand build. I built my own several years ago, so I know the thought and labor that goes into it.
> 
> But I have to ask.........have you been building this stand for almost 3 years?


Ummmm..... yeah...... It's been very off and little on for working on the project. I'm a horrible procrastinator! But I've gotta get it done shortly as we have another one on the way. 

Plus I over think the crap outta things an end up getting "analysis paralysis!" Screws me horribly for getting stuff done. 

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## Ben Belton

chayos00 said:


> "analysis paralysis!"


Wow... I know have a name for my own condition.


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## chayos00

Ben Belton said:


> Wow... I know have a name for my own condition.


It's taken a while but I have finally admitted to myself my issue! LOL 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

So time for another update! The stand and canopy build is finally finished!! I have the final coat of urethane on and if there's any imperfections, I don't care anymore I am done! LOL I am FINALLY done! I way over did this to make it a furniture grade stand. I can say I will never do that again!! However I hope you like it! Now to get the tank resealed, drilled, plumbed, and my overflow setup!


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## chayos00

Here's my DIY on my ghost overflow that I'm making. I initially was going to do a glass setup till I saw Joey (King of DIY) make one out of acrylic for his goldfish tank and I was inspired. However as I didn't have a table saw, I was able to find a friend who did and he let me borrow it, however I upgraded the blade to a 10" 90 tooth one to get the smoothest cuts I could get. One quick tip was to slide the piece back and forth once the last tooth cut was made to smooth out the blades rough cut edges. I don't have it glued up yet, but will be doing so as soon as I get the mounting surface prepped for gluing. Here's the pics of the overflow so far.

Internal overflow box - 36" L x 5" H x 2" D
External plumbing box - 23" L x 7" H x 6" D
1.5" bulkheads, 3 to be drilled in the tank to hold the overflows together and 3 for the beananimal drain system I will be using.

I wanted to try a router, but the setup I was working with wasn't keeping it stable enough to get straight cuts, however I have since seen a method that would have probably worked if I ever do it again.

Internal box has the teeth, the outside box is the other one.









Close up of the inside teeh


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## Greggz

The stand came out great! Nice work. I've built a similar one so I know what goes into it. 

So............three years to build the stand...........what's the ETA for the rest of the project??

Looking forward to seeing it all completed............someday!:grin2::grin2:

Now I'm joking with you a bit, but really am looking forward to seeing what you do with it. Has the makings of a very nice tank.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> The stand came out great! Nice work. I've built a similar one so I know what goes into it.
> 
> So............three years to build the stand...........what's the ETA for the rest of the project??
> 
> Looking forward to seeing it all completed............someday!:grin2::grin2:
> 
> Now I'm joking with you a bit, but really am looking forward to seeing what you do with it. Has the makings of a very nice tank.


Thank you! Yeah 3 years ..... But as far as my ETA to get water in it MUST be by Feb 1 as our 2ND one will be here shortly after. So if I don't get it finished now I might as well get some gas and matches and get rid of it. LOL

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## Ben Belton

That all looks awesome.


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## chayos00

So I'm designing my 55g sump and wanted to see if anyone had any input.

I'm set on using poret foam (I know it ain't cheap up front, but if it lasts 10 years I'm fine with it). I also was thinking about using lava rock (or something) after the poret for an additional biomedia.

I took a pic of my tank and what I've drawn up for helping me figure out spacing of stuff.
The poret is either going to be 2x2" sheets of each PPI or a single 4" sheet of each PPI, so 4" total of each of 10ppi (coarse), 20ppi (medium), & 30ppi (fine).

The Lava rock would be a volume just shy of 4 gallons worth but I made it where water would be forced to flow through it. Using eggcrate to hold it together, but narrow enough to pull out of the tank and to use 1" wide or 2" wide strips of glass on the sides to force the water not to bypass it. Same for the polyfill section.

I have a 5" wide section where the water would fill into the sump from the DT, the heaters will be in this area too. I was thinking of a 17" tall divider to be used here so I could maintain a constant level for the incoming water level to keep the pipe only 1" deep into the tank.

With the stuff arranged like it is this would leave me with a 16" wide area for plants or a hospital section for fish in the sump which would give an open area of about 15 gallons.

Revision 1









Talked to Stephan @ SwissTropics and he suggested the following. Ditch the poly, it's not needed after 30ppi. Then go with a 1" gap between poret sheets to see if the water level drops due to clogging so I know when to clean the foam.


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## zuc

the staining on the stand is amazing! subbed


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## latent

I had a sump with the same design as you are intending with the poret foam separating the return pump from the rest of the sump. I used 20 ppi instead of 30 ppi. The issue I found that if you have snails in your sump they will multiply and eventually snails will end up in your return pump area leaving a giant pile of snail s*** over time. If possible, I would recommend a piece of acrylic or glass separating your return pump area from the rest of your sump with a piece of filter material on top to prevent any waste, shrimp or snails from ending up in your return pump section. 

I saw you mentioned something about glass strips in one area, but I don't understand this concept.

As far as a sump is concerned, keep it simple stupid. I like poret foam a lot in my sumps and I still use it. However, I still use felt or blue filter pads to catch waste. To me, poret foam is bio media used for various purposes, but in my experience is not ideal to filter small waste particles. Sure, you could use a higher ppi, but that would clog faster and cause you water level issues in your sump.

Nice woodworking by the way.


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## chayos00

zuc said:


> the staining on the stand is amazing! subbed


Thanks!



latent said:


> I had a sump with the same design as you are intending with the poret foam separating the return pump from the rest of the sump. I used 20 ppi instead of 30 ppi. The issue I found that if you have snails in your sump they will multiply and eventually snails will end up in your return pump area leaving a giant pile of snail s*** over time. If possible, I would recommend a piece of acrylic or glass separating your return pump area from the rest of your sump with a piece of filter material on top to prevent any waste, shrimp or snails from ending up in your return pump section.
> 
> I saw you mentioned something about glass strips in one area, but I don't understand this concept.
> 
> As far as a sump is concerned, keep it simple stupid. I like poret foam a lot in my sumps and I still use it. However, I still use felt or blue filter pads to catch waste. To me, poret foam is bio media used for various purposes, but in my experience is not ideal to filter small waste particles. Sure, you could use a higher ppi, but that would clog faster and cause you water level issues in your sump.
> 
> Nice woodworking by the way.


So the glass strips are to force the water to go through the biomedia, as I can't make the eggcrate box to fit the glass opening, or I wouldn't be able to pull it out through the top frame to take it out and clean it. So the tank is 12" wide (inside diameter) and the top trim is 10.75" wide (ID), so I need something to force the water to not bypass the media but to go through it which is where the glass strips are stopping the water from going around the sides. Hope this makes sense, if not I can probably draw something up. 

Good feedback about the snails. Still not sure if I want snails in this tank or not, I see how my MTS breed in my 10g tank with dwarf pea puffers and the shells scattered about. However I think if I do go with snails I will use some sort of fine mesh material think there's something like that from knitting supplies that's plastic I could use to make some sort of buffer area to keep the snails away, or to even surround my sump pump with to keep them from getting in. However with water changes I planed to use the sumps volume to drain so I may just have to use the hose to suck out the snail poo from there if I get some. 

Also thanks about my stand!


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## latent

You will have plenty of surface area that water will contact the poret foam without the glass strips. I think the benefits of biomedia are overly exaggerated in my opinion but that is a topic for a different forum topic. Any plants you place in your sump have the potential to bring in pond snails depending on where you get them from. Pond snails are the nightmare pest I was referring to. Happy building.


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## chayos00

latent said:


> You will have plenty of surface area that water will contact the poret foam without the glass strips. I think the benefits of biomedia are overly exaggerated in my opinion but that is a topic for a different forum topic. Any plants you place in your sump have the potential to bring in pond snails depending on where you get them from. Pond snails are the nightmare pest I was referring to. Happy building.


I don't think you are following where I'm putting the glass strips, only in front of my biomedia area that has an eggcrate box to keep it contained. The Poret will NOT have anything holding it in place besides surface tension ie 13" wide foam in a 12" wide area. Since you mentioned the biomedia being overrated, I'm not sure if I'll go the pricier way of stuff labeled biomedia or go with lava rock.

Yeah snails would be a PITA of the kind you aren't wanting. I'm going to try and keep all my plants to tissue culture ones or if not from there I'll do a dip on them and quarantine them in a small tank to make sure there's no pests on them before putting them in this tank setup.


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## chayos00

Alright, I pulled the trigger on ordering my poret foam. 4" thick sections that are 19.5"x13" to fit my 55g sump so I grabbed the 10, 20, & 30ppi foams. 

I went a little wild with biomedia. People say the foam can be it, however I'd rather have something that won't get disturbed when cleaning the foam. I'm sure the volume would be overkill for biomedia if I added the 3.9 gallons of it that I could fit into my 5"x10"x17" bio box. 

Seachem Matrix (Ordered 1G bucket)
MarinePure MP2C-C  (Ordered 1G Bag)
Eheim Substrat Pro (Ordered 2L, as the seller was half the price of others, @ $25 when it's normally $36, will wait for Amazon seller to get it back in stock to grab 2L more)


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## latent

Did you happen to look at fokestn's pictures of his sump that he just posted in his 75 gal journal? You will see the detritus and excess waste accumulating in the poret foam and in the return sump section. This is the same issue that happened to me and was made worse by snails. That is why I was saying use an acrylic or glass divider to prevent that issue. Because even when you rinse out the foam and place it back, your return pump will send all that junk back into the main tank. Not fun.

Sure, you can vacuum it up if you have enough clearance from the bottom of the tank to the top of the sump, but you won't get all of it. With all my breeding projects I prefer the less amount of maintenance possible with my planted tanks. Just my two cents.


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## chayos00

Second attempt at resealing the tank went much better. The first time I had a decent sized bubble in a seam and just wasn't happy with how the whole job turned out. So 2 days later I gutted the seam I just did. Tonight I finally had it ready to reseal and with a few tricks I learned got it done looking 10 times better! No bubbles on any seams that I can see either. 

So I learned that silicone skims over WAY TOO FAST and was told a tip from someone who uses it on a frequent basis is to spray alcohol over it right after you lay the bead down. Then I found a wooden dowel that was the perfect size to clean up the silicone bead for my 3/8" bead width, it lined up perfectly with the edge on the tape I laid out first. Once I smoothed the bead I then sprayed it again and got the other beads that touched that tape joint done and pulled the tape off as soon as possible this time, unlike when finished last time. 

Pics! So not like you can probably tell in these pics, but it's a before silicone and after silicone pics of the tank.


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## astex

Just remember also, the chance of you needing to clean all three poret foam sheets at the same time is very small. The coarsest will be the most often and go less often the finer the foam. I have extra biomedia in my sump as well, but mostly just because I didn't have anyplace else for it and this way it stays cycled. It's not hurting, but I don't think it's necessary either.


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## chayos00

astex said:


> Just remember also, the chance of you needing to clean all three poret foam sheets at the same time is very small. The coarsest will be the most often and go less often the finer the foam. I have extra biomedia in my sump as well, but mostly just because I didn't have anyplace else for it and this way it stays cycled. It's not hurting, but I don't think it's necessary either.


With cleaning the foam I'll probably do the course sheet at least monthly and then following sheets as needed. I figured the extra biomedia is kind of a bio backup, plus I can use the media for QT tanks or whatever I need to run or for quick cycling a tank too.


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## chayos00

Some more progress today. I have my power panels installed now. I was going to do the in cabinet lighting, but ran out of time for those, however they will be installed tomorrow and possibly drilling the tank!!

So I used a 3.5" wide extra piece of birch hardwood that I used to mount the panels too. I took off the top cover and drilled a hole in them so I could use some screws with some washers to mount the panel with so I didn't have any ugly ghetto stuff holding them up (my first plan). However I was going to drill a hole through the whole thing and mount it that way, but I was talking with my buddy who improved upon my idea when I took the power panel apart to see if I could go all the way through and he mentioned "why don't you just put a screw through only the top cover?" DING DING DING he gave me a winner! 

Here's one of the ADJ PC-100A









Two panels mounted, if a third is needed then I can use the center door to mount another one.









Here's an up close view of one where it's mounted. 









A shot from the back showing the board I used to get the panel at the right height. Notice there's no mounting hardware visible from under the power panel? LOL


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## chayos00

Alright I'm getting more stuff done! Here's what I accomplished this weekend. Setup the power panels as above, got the in cabinet lighting installed, and the big one drilled my tank!!! Drilling wasn't bad to do, it just took me forever to get through the glass with very light pressure and plenty of water flow. The glass did chip out a touch at the end, but nothing that the gasket won't cover. 

Cabinet Lights









I'm ready to drill now that it's all planned out.









Tank post drill.









Here's what I used to drill the tank plus my glass "pucks."







[/url]


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## chayos00

So here's a question for those following this thread. I'm thinking I want to keep this tank low tech for now with EI style fert dosing as needed, or DIY osmocote root tabs to feed my plants that I will grow. I don't know what plants I'm going with either at this time, but I should probably stick to ones below medium lighting. However I'm unsure about lighting. For sure I'm not doing CO2 anytime soon. I was thinking of starting with CFL bulbs, I think they are 6.5k in color and are 75 or 100w bulbs. I saw the King of DIY do his cheap DIY lighting with a floodlight from Amazon, but after looking online more it seems these floodlights are dying in about a year's time. I thought about some 5' T5's @ 80W, but not sure about that either..... I'm at a total loss. I hate the idea of spending a TON on LED's too. But a DIY led setup would be fun to do as well. Either way I'll probably do a DIY moonlight setup though. Thoughts?


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## crazymittens

Hee hee, the glass pucks are half the fun!

My approach on the tank was similar to yours...wanted to hold off on CO2. I felt that doing the lighting right (i.e. dimmable LEDs) was worth it the first time around. Unfortunately didn't have much luck with the manufacturer, but it worked out in the end. If you have the time/willing to take the risk (reliability is based on your skillful execution/planning), I'd totally do a DIY LED setup. So much info out there these days, and parts readily available.


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## chayos00

crazymittens said:


> Hee hee, the glass pucks are half the fun!
> 
> My approach on the tank was similar to yours...wanted to hold off on CO2. I felt that doing the lighting right (i.e. dimmable LEDs) was worth it the first time around. Unfortunately didn't have much luck with the manufacturer, but it worked out in the end. If you have the time/willing to take the risk (reliability is based on your skillful execution/planning), I'd totally do a DIY LED setup. So much info out there these days, and parts readily available.


I used to be an aircraft electrician in the Air Force so no worries there on my skills for building a setup. LEDs are my ultimate end goal, but the DIY setups I see for these larger tanks just seem to cost a ton. LOL For which money has been kinda tight lately. Wish I could do one for less than $100. Unless I come up with a plan for a scalable setup where I design a lower powered one that I can easily add on to for ramping it up over time in more LEDs if I go CO2. 

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## chayos00

Time for a few updates, doing little things all at once lately so no boom this is done kinds of things.

So I've got my heater controller setup now. I'm using a RANCO ETC-111000 to control 2 or 3 of my 200W Eheim Jager heaters that I currently have, I figure I will only need 2 to run it based on feed back of folks in the local area for heating needs vs what an online calculator told me when I first bought the 3 heaters. I wired up the controller to power on the 4 outlets in the back to control the heaters. The heaters will be calibrated to about 3-4°F above what I want the tank maintained at.









Next is the overflow, this is finally done! WOOT WOOT!! I have a friend coming over today to help place the tank on the stand so I can get the plumbing for the overflow started.













































I placed what I have for the sump in the stand to see how much space I will have left. I have the majority of the sump done, I'm getting the glass cut for the my pieces I need for a decent price too! They might be done tomorrow or next week, not sure yet.









So plumbing next and figuring out something for a DIY LED setup. Currently I've moved past a large CREE LED build and I'm looking into the Bridgelux vero 18 COB LED's, which seems like a number of folks on here have done. Not sure how many I need or how large (wide) of a heat sink I need either, I like the idea of one 6-10" wide so I can have a wide light spread for this tank. I want one to stretch at least 62" long to have an all in one unit though. Not really a fan of having to figure out hanging two smaller ones.


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## zombiejessigamer

I am interested to see how this build turns out. I too am looking at making a long planted tank build after I am moved and settled in. My stand is going to be covered in old barn wood and beetle killed pine to match my gaming desk build. Can't wait to see more!


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## BettaBettas

zombiejessigamer said:


> I am interested to see how this build turns out. I too am looking at making a long planted tank build after I am moved and settled in. My stand is going to be covered in old barn wood and beetle killed pine to match my gaming desk build. Can't wait to see more!


i spy with my little eye, a future journal lol  #DoAJournal! :laugh2:


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## zombiejessigamer

BettaBettas said:


> i spy with my little eye, a future journal lol  #DoAJournal! :laugh2:


I am going to start a 5.5gal build as a starter. I could journal it then turn it into a nursery tank as I work on a 20gal long tank. Right now I had no ideas on what to do but this gave me a good idea of what could be a neat build!


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## chayos00

Had my buddies over Thursday and got my 125g tank up on the stand now. Today I got the canopy up on the tank also, just to see what it looks like, plus I can tidy up my work area a bit now too! LOL I've been trying to figure out what I'm doing for my lighting setup, which I have a link to in my signature. Lots of decision making there. Plus trying to avoid sending too much money on it too. I still haven't had the chance to get my plumbing worked on, but I'm going to see if I can some tomorrow while my daughter is napping.


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## chayos00

Here's another little update. I placed the canopy on the tank and got a picture of it finally. This thing is large, it sits at 7 feet tall from the top trim to the base.










I got a little plumbing work done today. Started setting up my beananimal plumbing setup. I started on the emergency and the standby pipes as they are staying at 1.5" plumbing, but the main line is going to be 1" to keep it quiet. However the bulkhead and the valves are all 1.5" ID as I wasn't sure if I would need to ever make it handle a larger flow one day. Better to oversize and make it swappable than to be stuck with something too small. I didn't have all the plumbing parts I needed so what you see below is all the further I got. Nothing is glued in yet, I wanted to make sure it all dry fit first. But that's a bit of a pain as PVC almost has to be beat together to fit all the way. A chop saw makes quick work out of cutting 1" & 1.5" PVC! 

I was going to put a disconnect on those valves but they basically have one already.


















I then went to Lowes before Home Depot and I found the plumbing fittings I've been wanting the whole time! PVC to hose barb!! Looks like I wasted some time today making some of the PVC cuts I did. LOL


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## chayos00

Called the glass company that was cutting the pieces I needed for my sump, well looks like they didn't cut it last week but will today. More waiting.... 

I'm waiting on some info for the LED build before ordering everything, but I can order some parts to get the build going. Basically need to figure out the control/driver side of things.


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## Freemananana

Man! I was not quick enough. I definitely would have suggested spiral CFLs for this tank. 4-5 of the flood lights at the hardware store with some 13w CFLs would have been enough to light this tank for low tech. I have a 75g journal around here. With the 20w (ish) floodlights, I was able to grow a jungle at 32" to substrate. Feel free to PM me if you want some additional details.

Tank looks great and I love the overflow.


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## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> Man! I was not quick enough. I definitely would have suggested spiral CFLs for this tank. 4-5 of the flood lights at the hardware store with some 13w CFLs would have been enough to light this tank for low tech. I have a 75g journal around here. With the 20w (ish) floodlights, I was able to grow a jungle at 32" to substrate. Feel free to PM me if you want some additional details.
> 
> Tank looks great and I love the overflow.


I actually was going to go that route from the start, I actually have 8 of the aluminum shop light reflectors and a pack of 100w CFL's. If I have the tank setup before an LED fixture then this is what I'll be using till then.

Edit - I would probably have switched to the LED bulbs instead of CFL's as they have become cheaper and use a few watts less. The screw in type that is.


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## Freemananana

chayos00 said:


> I actually was going to go that route from the start, I actually have 8 of the aluminum shop light reflectors and a pack of 100w CFL's. If I have the tank setup before an LED fixture then this is what I'll be using till then.
> 
> Edit - I would probably have switched to the LED bulbs instead of CFL's as they have become cheaper and use a few watts less. The screw in type that is.




8 would, in my experience, be way too much light for this tank. Even more so with the 100w equivalents! It does depend on how dense your plant mass is, but I'd imagine you'll be on the lower side of the spectrum at the beginning. Since you have a hood, I would give the CFLs a shot when you start the tank up. They work incredibly well and they are my go to for a tank, hands down. I may be going back with CFLs in the future. 


For reference, I started my 75g with 3 of the 13w CFLs and ramped up the number of fixtures and wattage to match plant growth. At the end I had 4x 23w CFLs over the tank.





And this is what the tank looked like. 





I, personally, prefer CFLs over LEDs. Power is cheap anyway!


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## nyskiffie

Not helpful to you but holy crap thank you for mentioning the PVC-> hose barb fittings. You just made my life a lot easier for my plumbing.


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## chayos00

nyskiffie said:


> Not helpful to you but holy crap thank you for mentioning the PVC-> hose barb fittings. You just made my life a lot easier for my plumbing.


I only wish I knew about those before at Lowes too, as I've only seen them on BRS or MarineDepot, but didn't want to order them. I wish I knew of them the week before as a guy at HomeDepot was trying to use a threaded pipe end to attach some tubing to. I told him it was a bad idea as water could just go up the threads and out. I pointed him to the two websites, but now I wish I had said Lowes has them.


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## sdwindansea

chayos00 said:


> I only wish I knew about those before at Lowes too, as I've only seen them on BRS or MarineDepot, but didn't want to order them. I wish I knew of them the week before as a guy at HomeDepot was trying to use a threaded pipe end to attach some tubing to. I told him it was a bad idea as water could just go up the threads and out. I pointed him to the two websites, but now I wish I had said Lowes has them.


I'm really enjoying reading about your build. I love the ingenuity. Just make sure to put some hose clamps on the outside for insurance (although I'm guessing you already knew that).


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## chayos00

sdwindansea said:


> I'm really enjoying reading about your build. I love the ingenuity. Just make sure to put some hose clamps on the outside for insurance (although I'm guessing you already knew that).


You are correct hose clamps will be there for sure! If the width can handle them, two per in fact. 

On another note the glass company got my sump divider glass cut and the guy let me pick them up at his house since they close right when I get off work, which his place was half the distance to the glass shop. Might get those installed tonight! 

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## chayos00

Well no dividers installed last night. Also turns out one of the pieces was miscut and they are getting me a new one today. I really tend to overthink the install of things and just need to slap it in and get er installed LOL I was trying too much last night to tape off the areas I was going to put the glass and keep the lines "pretty" but it's a sump and not a DT.


----------



## chayos00

I'm about 90%+ done now. Just trying to figure out some final details on my plumbing before flooding the setup and seeing if it holds water. Which will run in the garage for about 2 weeks before it comes in the house. It's been a long journey, but glad it's almost done!!!

I also have my DIY LED light fixture figured out, I've got all parts on hand now, minus the wiring. Which I will work on that while I'm leak testing the system.

This picture does it no justice as to how big this setup really is. It's a 125g tank which is 72" long by 18" wide. The stand is right at 7 feet tall and 6'8" wide.









More updates below.
Here's the inside of the stand as viewed from the back side. 









The entire back side.









View of the return pipe from the top.









View of the return from inside the tank.









Pipe from the pump to bypass the tank as needed, or to adjust the flow through the tank. 









Pump plumbing.


----------



## chayos00

Thanks to a post on Facebook, I've got my canopy gas struts figured out and ordered too. Be nice to get those on and working!!


----------



## Greggz

Very well executed idea, both the stand and the plumbing. You have put a lot of work into this.

Myself, I'm hoping you get it filled in exactly 18 days.

Then you could say it took exactly three years since you started this thread!!!:grin2::grin2:

Really looking forward to seeing what this becomes once you finally get it in the house. Lot's of possibilities with that set up.


----------



## Freemananana

Greggz said:


> Then you could say it took exactly three years since you started this thread!!!:grin2::grin2:


I was wondering why this looked so familiar! Holy cow it has been awhile! The tank looks good. Sad to see it isn't stocked and running, but that stand is BEAUTIFUL. Woo weee, jealous. :wink2:


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Very well executed idea, both the stand and the plumbing. You have put a lot of work into this.
> 
> Myself, I'm hoping you get it filled in exactly 18 days.
> 
> Then you could say it took exactly three years since you started this thread!!!:grin2::grin2:
> 
> Really looking forward to seeing what this becomes once you finally get it in the house. Lot's of possibilities with that set up.


Just looked at the original pictures for dates, ‎September ‎18, ‎2013 is when I did my first leak test. But looks like on Jan 6, 2014 is when I added my 20A breaker to my power panel as my house is run with stupid 15A circuits. I never confirmed the builder of our house (2012) was doing 15 or 20A outlets when it was being built, as our previous house that was built in 2006 and had 20A circuits all throughout. So to not pop breakers, I added that outlet and got a 10 or 12 gauge 100 foot extension cord to run power tools. 

But yeah I got to get this thing done fast! Feb 2nd baby #2 gets here! Once I figure out how to get my sump lines secured I can flood it. But I've got parts coming in for that next week.



Freemananana said:


> I was wondering why this looked so familiar! Holy cow it has been awhile! The tank looks good. Sad to see it isn't stocked and running, but that stand is BEAUTIFUL. Woo weee, jealous. :wink2:


Yeah I haven't been the quickest with this build! Lots of little work here and there over the last three years.

Bump:

Bump:


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## Freemananana

Glad you've pulled ahead on this build though, gives me ideas for my own. It never ceases to amaze me; whenever I start a new build, I can find dozens just like mine on this site!


----------



## chayos00

Did some exploring in the local mountains yesterday helping a buddy do a shake down run on a new to him used jeep. Always a good time to get a lil mud on the tires! I had to make a few stops to pick up some aquascaping materials!

Got some well dried out Manzanita wood and some rocks to make my aquascape with. I got lots, but at least I'll have options! I didn't get any pics of the rocks before soaking them in water to make sure the crap was rinsed off them, but it's enough to fill up about a 40g trash container between the different containers I have in use at the moment.

I packed the truck full! My buddy was telling me if I get anymore I'm going to need to put it on the roof! LOL


















Rinsing the dirt off in the back yard. I live in Arizona, yes we have rocks and not grass.... well most of us have rocks, some still have grass. But it's no fun to mow when it's 100+ out in the summer, been there done that, no thanks!


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Very well executed idea, both the stand and the plumbing. You have put a lot of work into this.
> 
> Myself, I'm hoping you get it filled in exactly 18 days.
> 
> Then you could say it took exactly three years since you started this thread!!!:grin2::grin2:
> 
> Really looking forward to seeing what this becomes once you finally get it in the house. Lot's of possibilities with that set up.


Well, I guess I didn't fulfill your hope! I actually filled the tank to leak test it this weekend out in my garage. The plumbing isn't perfect yet, but after burping the primary drain line I have it able to flow water, but that's due to the line going too deep into the sump tank is my guess. Either way I'm waiting on a few bulkheads so I can make my sump tubing holder for the incoming DT drain lines. 

I did have a minor leak coming one of my three drain lines which went right under the painted background and caused wrinkles that can be seen from the front of the tank after it dried. I scraped off the cheap acrylic craft store paint, which came off very easily with a 4" wide scraper. I then picked up some straight black Behr Premium Plus Interior Semi-Gloss Enamel from Home Depot and just finished putting the second coat on the stand. I do hate how the roller brushes never can get 100% coverage over glass! I just confirmed with light behind that there are tiny speckles of holes as viewed from behind it, but doesn't quite seem like it when viewing it from the front. I think next time I need to find some vinyl to use for a background. LOL


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## chayos00

Alright, I've got the back repainted (found a little whoops on it last night from the corner of the back overflow box). I have the tubing shortened inside the sump and my little holder for the tubing made as well. I have all three heaters in the tank to warm it up to 83°F to have the heaters all synced to that temp to turn off as my controller will be set a little lower, probably 78°F, but depending on the fish. As it's normally warmer here, I'll probably only need two of my three Eheim Jager 200W heaters running and will keep the other as a spare.










Here's my flex tubing holder I made out of scrap 1/4" acrylic and some bulkheads to hold the tubing in place. In order to get my tubing soft enough to go where I wanted, I maxed out my hot water heater filled the tub and let the tubing sit in it for like 10-15 minutes till it was soft enough. I then strung it where it needed to go and trimmed it about 1-2 under the water line, except for the emergency line, that's above the water line to make extra noise, but not like I won't hear it gurgling as it's chugging the water down the tube. LOL


----------



## chayos00

Last night I worked on the overflow plumbing some to get it tuned just right. I've gotten the overflow quiet and starting a full flow within 30 seconds or so. 

My return pump is a Jebao DC12000 that I got about 2 years ago or so. I know I've seen reviews about them either being loud or not lasting or something else wrong. There's a bit of a turbine type sound to it, but in the garage the back is wide open, so not sure how it will sound in the house. The most noise is coming from the sump divider where the return water comes in, as it's coming over the edge and falling down about 2" there's an air bubble under it and it churns the water and makes a bit of water fall type noise. So anyway's I tested the return pump flow going into the tank last night using a 5 gallon bucket and some additional tubing to direct the flow where needed. I had my wife time me filling the bucket. There's 6 speeds on this pump and I tested the flow and power consumption at each setting. 

I assume the total water volume would be about 160 gallons in the 180 total possible system. 
6 - 99 watts - 12.97 seconds - 1387.81 gph - 8.67x turnover rate
5 - 82 watts - 14.57 seconds - 1235.41 gph - 7.72x turnover rate
4 - 66 watts - 17.34 seconds - 1038.06 gph - 6.48x turnover rate
3 - 50 watts - 19.75 seconds - 911.39 gph - 5.69x turnover rate
2 - 37 watts - 24.10 seconds - 746.88 gph - 4.66x turnover rate
1 - 27 watts - 32.30 seconds - 557.27 gph - 3.48x turnover rate

I'm thinking of running the pump at either speeds of 4 or 5, however as the tank is currently bare, I can't really see how the flow of water at that rate will affect the substrate or the plants or fish. 

Now I never saw any other DC pumps when I bought this a few years ago, however I've now seen the Ecotech Marine DC pumps and besides for their cost, I wonder if I should save up some money to buy one of their pumps in case or for when the Jebao pump may go out. What sucks is that depending upon the pump it's either $349 (M1) or $449 (L1).


----------



## crazymittens

Tie some yarn/string to a rock and place throughout the bare tank. Walla, flow meter.


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## chayos00

crazymittens said:


> Tie some yarn/string to a rock and place throughout the bare tank. Walla, flow meter.


LOL took me a moment to realize what you meant by that. But interesting idea. 

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## Chuck Layton

Fantastic buld so far! I love the thought you have put into this. I'm in Arizona as well and have been hiking around myself looking for some good Manzanita to use for my tank.


----------



## chayos00

Chuck Layton said:


> Fantastic buld so far! I love the thought you have put into this. I'm in Arizona as well and have been hiking around myself looking for some good Manzanita to use for my tank.


Depending where you are at, I can tell you there's lots on the backside of Mt Lemmon here in Tucson. 

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## Chuck Layton

In the Prescott area. Lots of Manzanita, just nothing I have liked so far. Other than boiling it, what have you done to prep yours?


----------



## chayos00

Chuck Layton said:


> In the Prescott area. Lots of Manzanita, just nothing I have liked so far. Other than boiling it, what have you done to prep yours?


I haven't thought about what to do with it yet. But I have a 55g drum and a 1000w heater that I can use to to heat the water up to get it close to boiling, but I was wondering if I could get a second 1000w heater to get it over that boiling point. They are water trough heaters so they will go high in temps. As last time I tried I got it to around 180℉ with some insulation around the barrel. I was debating about using a touch of bleach to get anything from nature that may be in the wood. Lots of dechlor following that of course. 

Hahaha just had though, if only my hot tub could get hot enough the 450g tub would be easiest to soak all/most of the wood at once. 

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## Chuck Layton

I tried bleach once, but overdid it and most of the wood deteriorated.


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## chayos00

Chuck Layton said:


> I tried bleach once, but overdid it and most of the wood deteriorated.


Good to know! If I do it, I'll probably only dip the wood for 30 minutes and then flush it after that and then do my boiling to also make sure it's flushed of the bleach. 

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## Chuck Layton

I always figured that if you could boil a piece for 15 minutes, that it would kill off anything harmful. Finding a container larger enough to do the job is the hard part.


----------



## chayos00

Chuck Layton said:


> I always figured that if you could boil a piece for 15 minutes, that it would kill off anything harmful. Finding a container larger enough to do the job is the hard part.


Yeah you probably are correct there. Maybe 30 minutes to make sure it's heated all the way through if I get the drum boiling and then dip the sticks in there with as many that would fit at once. 

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## nyskiffie

Hate to say it but I highly highly doubt that 2000W is enough to boil a 55G drum. The amount of energy to get from 180 --> 212 is really big, and to go from 212 to actually boiling is several times more than that. 

On the other hand, my small amount of experience cooking with sous vide tells me that 30min in 180 degree water would be plenty to kill the vast majority of bacteria. 

Boiling water kills bacteria fairly instantly, but most temps above 150 or so are fatal in the long term. Time + Temperature is the big thing. There must be resources out there for this, but unfortunately I don't know them.


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## chayos00

nyskiffie said:


> Hate to say it but I highly highly doubt that 2000W is enough to boil a 55G drum. The amount of energy to get from 180 --> 212 is really big, and to go from 212 to actually boiling is several times more than that.
> 
> On the other hand, my small amount of experience cooking with sous vide tells me that 30min in 180 degree water would be plenty to kill the vast majority of bacteria.
> 
> Boiling water kills bacteria fairly instantly, but most temps above 150 or so are fatal in the long term. Time + Temperature is the big thing. There must be resources out there for this, but unfortunately I don't know them.


Yeah thinking about it, how I finally got up to the 180ish range, I had to add a bunch of insulation around the drum the first time to get it that warm. I recall walking back into the garage after it got that warm and it was a damned humid jungle in there! What I'm wondering is about any sort of fungus or something of that type growing on parts of the wood as most of this was sitting on the ground in spots.


----------



## chayos00

Alright another big update! I move the tank/stand inside the house! Woot Woot! I got the tank in the house before baby #2 is here next week.... OMG Next week?!?! I'm not ready for that yet! LOL

I got the lift cylinders from Western Marine that are Taylor Made and are supposedly rated for marine use, well I picked up two 20lbs cylinders as not knowing anything about cylinders and I couldn't get the formula, or was too lazy to try, I just went with about what the lid weighed. Well it lifts easier, but doesn't hold it up. So I ordered 2 of 40lbs and 2 60lbs shocks to hope that one of these will hold the damned thing! Before the current shocks the doors weighed in at about 40lbs but now they are coming in at 15lbs, so hopefully the 40lbs shocks will do the trick. Luckily there's a 30 day window to return what I don't need. So hopefully one of these shocks coming in tomorrow will be the right ones I need. 

Going through the front door!









Inside the entryway.









Damn it, there's always gotta be a touch of carnage! When moving off the furniture dolly from outside the house as we were pushing it in this drug on the dolly and pulled right out from the brad nails that were holding it on. Oh well.... $hit happens! I will be gluing it back on.









Time to check level.... wait what?!









Holy crap I didn't even have to level the stand! This is inside the bottom of the tank, she's level! Wow!!! I'm surprised the guys laying the foundation did it right in this house, as my previous house was way off when my dad and I tiled the place.









Here she is in the den. Luckily the piece that broke off is in the back corner, however it will get fixed soon. (I know the flag in the flag case isn't folded correctly, but I've never gotten around to fixing it after my dad gave it to me. I'll get it one day.)









Anyone coming to my front door will get to see a nice treat while they wait for me to get to the door now. (The round purple on the right side of the pic is my wife's belly, she's about 38 or 39 weeks along.)


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## Sean W.

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## Freemananana

Did you mention what shocks you ended up using? I remember reading that you found them, but not which ones they were.


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## chayos00

No I didn't specify mention which ones exactly.

They are Taylor Made: 
Replacement Gas Strut, 10.2" Compressed x 17.2" Extended Length, 20lb. Rating
Model # 10203297 | Mfg # 1834-20 | UPC # 400119619760 (Not sure why anything got censored here.... but it's fixed.)

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/tayl...ruts-for-dock-boxes-hatches--P024_720_003_512

So I'll have on hand the 20, 40, and 60lbs one once the rest are delivered today by USPS. 

Replacement Gas Strut, 10.2" Compressed x 17.2" Extended Length, 40lb. Rating
Model # 10203305 | Mfg # 1834-40 | UPC # 40011961983

Replacement Gas Strut, 10.2" Compressed x 17.2" Extended Length, 60lb. Rating
Model # 8508830 | Mfg # 1833 | UPC # 40011144133



















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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> No I didn't specify mention which ones exactly.
> 
> They are : TAYLOR MADE - Replacement Gas Strut, 10.2" Compressed x 17.2" Extended Length, 20lb. Rating
> 
> Model #[censored]8508806[censored]|[censored]Mfg #[censored]1830
> 
> https://www.westmarine.com/buy/tayl...ruts-for-dock-boxes-hatches--P024_720_003_512
> 
> So I'll have on hand the 20, 40, and 60lbs one once the rest are delivered today by USPS.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


This caught my eye. I also built my stand/canopy, and have a piano hinge to allow the whole top to open up. Right now I just flip the top all the way over. It is a bit heavy, but doable. 

Very curious to see how this works out for you. Please post an update once you get it sorted out.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> This caught my eye. I also built my stand/canopy, and have a piano hinge to allow the whole top to open up. Right now I just flip the top all the way over. It is a bit heavy, but doable.
> 
> Very curious to see how this works out for you. Please post an update once you get it sorted out.


I'll have them on this afternoon, as soon as USPS brings them by around noon to 1pm, the perks of working from home! LOL


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## Eric Mraz

Very nice tank. Great job building stand and canopy.


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## Freemananana

The link took me to a page, but it had an unclickable pop up for me. What weights did you go with? I saw you had a set of struts there. Are you going with more? I was planning on the typical piano hinged topped as well.


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## chayos00

Eric Mraz said:


> Very nice tank. Great job building stand and canopy.


Thank you!



Freemananana said:


> The link took me to a page, but it had an unclickable pop up for me. What weights did you go with? I saw you had a set of struts there. Are you going with more? I was planning on the typical piano hinged topped as well.


Here's the MFG website Standard Replacement Gas Shocks for Dock Boxes Western Marine was where I ordered them from, I use a popup blocker on my PC, so that might be why I didn't see that popup. I started with 2 20lbs shocks which don't hold it, but then ordered pairs of 40's and 60's to make sure I didn't have to order another set to get it to work correctly! I'm wondering if I'm going to be going with a mixed set of say a 20 & a 40 or a 40 & a 60 combo. LOL Time will tell!


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## Freemananana

Hey! I'll let you figure it out and then copy/paste the results to my build. Heheheh. Good luck!


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## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> Hey! I'll let you figure it out and then copy/paste the results to my build. Heheheh. Good luck!


Okay, so just got the shocks delivered. I ended up with a 40 and a 60 to get it where the canopy stays up and doesn't open on it's own. The two 60's keep the canopy open and the 2 40's won't stay open on their own, but a nice and smooth drop down. It makes me wonder if two 50's would've worked better, as they would be balanced in their power.

Replacement Gas Strut, 10.2" Compressed x 17.2" Extended Length, 50lb. Rating
Model # 10203271 | Mfg # 1830-50 | UPC # 40011961952

So for your canopy, if you tested it the same way I did. I used one of those hanging scales linked here, this not being the exact same one, but close to it. I used one of these to "weigh" the canopy lid as I had already installed the piano hinge and there is just too many damned screws to take it all apart to get a true weight on the lid. So basically I weighed the door "force" of closing, I guess you could say. Just keep that in mind as you hunt for shocks.


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## Freemananana

chayos00 said:


> Okay, so just got the shocks delivered. I ended up with a 40 and a 60 to get it where the canopy stays up and doesn't open on it's own. The two 60's keep the canopy open and the 2 40's won't stay open on their own, but a nice and smooth drop down. It makes me wonder if two 50's would've worked better, as they would be balanced in their power.
> 
> Replacement Gas Strut, 10.2" Compressed x 17.2" Extended Length, 50lb. Rating
> Model # 10203271 | Mfg # 1830-50 | UPC # 40011961952
> 
> So for your canopy, if you tested it the same way I did. I used one of those hanging scales linked here, this not being the exact same one, but close to it. I used one of these to "weigh" the canopy lid as I had already installed the piano hinge and there is just too many damned screws to take it all apart to get a true weight on the lid. So basically I weighed the door "force" of closing, I guess you could say. Just keep that in mind as you hunt for shocks.


Much thanks! This will all help me along quite a bit, if I decide to go that route. At the moment, this is one of those 'luxury' items that I do not necessarily need.


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## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> Much thanks! This will all help me along quite a bit, if I decide to go that route. At the moment, this is one of those 'luxury' items that I do not necessarily need.


It was a must for me, as it's wide open right now for my trying to figure out my hardscape. LOL Figured get it from the start and that will keep me happy, plus getting my full use out of them now. 

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## RichE

Want to come to the great State of Michigan and help me build a stand like yours? That is so what Im looking to do


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## Greggz

RichE said:


> Want to come to the great State of Michigan and help me build a stand like yours? That is so what Im looking to do


That would be an expensive stand. You would have to provide housing for three years............it takes that long to build a stand like this!!:grin2::grin2: 

Chayos00 I'm still fascinated by this build. I think you officially are going on the fourth year now!


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## Sean W.

chayos00 said:


> It was a must for me, as it's wide open right now for my *trying to figure out my hardscape.* LOL Figured get it from the start and that will keep me happy, plus getting my full use out of them now.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


I'll aquscape your 125 if you build my LED?


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## chayos00

RichE said:


> Want to come to the great State of Michigan and help me build a stand like yours? That is so what Im looking to do


Thank you, but like Greggz said, it took me 3 years! LOL



Greggz said:


> That would be an expensive stand. You would have to provide housing for three years............it takes that long to build a stand like this!!:grin2::grin2:
> 
> Chayos00 I'm still fascinated by this build. I think you officially are going on the fourth year now!


LOL Yeah it would be expensive! However if I was just working on the stand instead of dealing with the other parts of life, I'm sure I could shrink it down to say.... 3 months? Hehehehe

Well, it's now 3+ and counting up to year #4!



Sean W. said:


> I'll aquascape your 125 if you build my LED?


I'd totally be down for that, want to provide the CO2 as well, since I don't have that! Hahaha I actually started laying out the hardscape of the tank the other day. I haven't uploaded a pic, as again life is busy and what not. But I also want to see the setup for a day or two before thinking about tweaking it, but what I have for the first scape my wife and I both like so far.


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## Sean W.

chayos00 said:


> I'd totally be down for that, want to provide the CO2 as well, since I don't have that! Hahaha I actually started laying out the hardscape of the tank the other day. I haven't uploaded a pic, as again life is busy and what not. But I also want to see the setup for a day or two before thinking about tweaking it, but what I have for the first scape my wife and I both like so far.


I actually found a 12v 1amp powersupply and tested groups of 3 leds on the fixture, I did find a group of LEDs that arent lighting up. Im not really in the mood to trouble shoot right now, but I did actually touch the fixture for the first time this year. Still seeing spots as I type this.


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## chayos00

Sean W. said:


> I actually found a 12v 1amp powersupply and tested groups of 3 leds on the fixture, I did find a group of LEDs that arent lighting up. Im not really in the mood to trouble shoot right now, but I did actually touch the fixture for the first time this year. Still seeing spots as I type this.


Well step one in troubleshooting an electrical circuit is isolation the circuit in half to see where to isolate the issue down. But by testing segments of lights you basically narrowed down where your issue should be. Next would be grabbing a millimeter and checking resistances or shorts. But glad to hear you at least looked at it! Step one to getting it fixed! 

For my aquascape I'm having a harder time trying to figure out plants, but it's slowly getting figured out. Keeping it pow tech though as I have no CO2. But maybe in the next year or so. 

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## Sean W.

chayos00 said:


> For my aquascape I'm having a harder time trying to figure out plants, but it's slowly getting figured out. Keeping it pow tech though as I have no CO2. But maybe in the next year or so.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


When Im trying to piece together a new aquascape, I spend around 2 weeks researching what I want my scape to look like. I get the majority of my influence from Tropica, some from James Findly, some from Oliver Knott and some (tho the least) from Amano.

The hardscape is what I struggle the most with, Once I have the hardscape figured out, I usually do really well figuring out plant placement.


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## chayos00

Sean W. said:


> When Im trying to piece together a new aquascape, I spend around 2 weeks researching what I want my scape to look like. I get the majority of my influence from Tropica, some from James Findly, some from Oliver Knott and some (tho the least) from Amano.
> 
> The hardscape is what I struggle the most with, Once I have the hardscape figured out, I usually do really well figuring out plant placement.


Yeah I did lots of looking for a while now. I joined a few facebook groups and watch for scales I like and save pics of them to keep for ideas. I've been using the tropica site for ideas too, but you named some I didn't know about. Which I will take a look at those this week. 

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## Maryland Guppy

Sean W. said:


> I actually found a 12v 1amp powersupply and tested groups of 3 leds on the fixture, I did find a group of LEDs that arent lighting up. Im not really in the mood to trouble shoot right now, but I did actually touch the fixture for the first time this year. Still seeing spots as I type this.


This progress must have stemmed from the reference to "Animal House"


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## Sean W.

Maryland Guppy said:


> This progress must have stemmed from the reference to "Animal House"


Actually it stemmed from chayos00's frustration with me seeking out other solutions other than what I have in front of me. That struck a chord, and I knew he was right and to buckle down and get to work. 

Dont mean to hijack your thread chayos00, I will post future updates in my build thread!


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## chayos00

Sean W. said:


> Actually it stemmed from chayos00's frustration with me seeking out other solutions other than what I have in front of me. That struck a chord, and I knew he was right and to buckle down and get to work.
> 
> Dont mean to hijack your thread chayos00, I will post future updates in my build thread!


LOL It kills me to see you have a setup that could be great, but your frustration with it is understandable! Just hope to see you get it working soon vs giving up and going with another setup. 

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## ScubaSteve

Can't wait to see where this goes....great job so far!


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## chayos00

ScubaSteve said:


> Can't wait to see where this goes....great job so far!


You and me both! Thanks! Just gotta say love the name! Been awhile since I've seen that movie too! Makes me want to go watch it now. LOL

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## chayos00

Well it's been a bit since my last update. The tank is flooded and has the fishless cycle going, it was seeded from my 10g tank. Things are processing, ammonia is gone in less than a day for 1ppm. NitrItes are deep purple and the nitrAtes are deep red on my tester. I have done a few water changes to keep the nitrItes and nitrAtes into a readable level on the API kit, however my last water change still had dark colors on the tests a day later so I'm doing another 80-90% water change now to bring the levels down and they are now nitrItes @ 0.5ppm and nitrAtes @ 20ppm. Time to dose another 1ppm of ammonia and watch it disappear overnight. LOL

I cleaned out my 10g from a ton of the crypts that are taking over in that tank. I've just dropped them into my sump to hopefully help it consume some of the nitrates in the tank. I may or not plant them in the tank, but if I don't it's due to the massive root system that they make in the tank, as they were a PITA to remove from my 10g.

I've also got all my wood in the tank, only one log hasn't sunk on it's own yet. I had soaked the wood in my 55g drum and let it sit for about 12hrs with the heater in the tub keeping the water 150-180°F. I scrubbed the gunk off with a brush and all looks good. I tried to sink the big log even longer in my bath tub (bad idea) as I also put the heater in there to try and accelerate the sinking. Well I stained the tub with tannins. I wasn't able to clean it off initially with softscrub and a green scrubbie, but finally after some playing around Bar Keepers Friend took it off like you wouldn't believe! I had the tub looking brand new in about 5 minutes. I was so happy that stuff cleaned it up like a champ! Granted the heat discolored the cultured marble tub surround, but I hope one day to tile the bathroom.

Before (after scrubbing with soft scrub and a green scrubbie):









After Bar Keepers Friend:


----------



## Ben Belton

You ended up having to do more work on your tub than on your aquarium.


----------



## chayos00

Ben Belton said:


> You ended up having to do more work on your tub than on your aquarium.


LOL no kidding! I was afraid I was going to need someone to reenamel the tub! 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## DGarone

Glad to see a fellow Arizonan doing such a great tank project on here. I'm setting one up and planting today, but it pales in comparison to this monster project.

Good luck! Looks great so far.


----------



## chayos00

DGarone said:


> Glad to see a fellow Arizonan doing such a great tank project on here. I'm setting one up and planting today, but it pales in comparison to this monster project.
> 
> Good luck! Looks great so far.


Why thank you!

Time for another update, I was going to hold off on sharing pictures, but I'm running into a roadblock with plant scaping. I put some plants from my trim from my 10g in the tank. I've trying to see if my Java Ferns will grow better than in the small tank, which some are glued to the rocks on the right side. I may play around with the wood layout some more as the bigger log isn't staying down by itself yet. Some of the rocks in there will probably come out too. I tried to create a 2 leveled scape, trying for the 2/3rds being higher and deeper on the left side. With a lower open area on the right. 

But what I'm thinking of is on the left side of the tank is where I want the most of my plant mass. I want to keep the lower right side more plant free, unless it's just along the back wall. Here's the list of possible plants I was thinking of. 

Possible Plant List:
Phoenix moss, Fissidens fontanus
Ludwigia repens
Anubias Barteri Var. Nana Petite
Vallisneria spiralis
Rotala Rotundifolia

Currently in the tank:
Java Fern
Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'
Bacopa caroliniana

Anybody have any suggestions for plants that I ought to use? I was thinking of making an anubias tree with the big log. Kind of like this example http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/541881-125g-dirt-tank-forest-anubias-nana-petite.html

Let me know if the following pics are too big, as my 1080p monitor these are just right.

FTS: 









Left Side Closeup:









Right Side Closeup:


----------



## chayos00

I've found a few more plants I'm interested in.

Possible Plant List:
Rotala Rotundifolia
Limnophila sessiliflora
Hygrophila Polysperma
Monte Carlo 

For sure:
Phoenix moss, Fissidens fontanus
Ludwigia repens
Anubias Barteri Var. Nana Petite
Vallisneria spiralis
blyxa japonica

Currently in the tank:
Java Fern
Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'
Bacopa caroliniana

Can anyone tell me if some moss like the marimo moss ball moss can be used to cover a log? I'd like something short in a moss that could cover a log without having to be trimmed.


----------



## Mattb126

chayos00 said:


> I've found a few more plants I'm interested in.
> 
> Possible Plant List:
> Rotala Rotundifolia
> Limnophila sessiliflora
> Hygrophila Polysperma
> Monte Carlo
> 
> For sure:
> Phoenix moss, Fissidens fontanus
> Ludwigia repens
> Anubias Barteri Var. Nana Petite
> Vallisneria spiralis
> blyxa japonica
> 
> Currently in the tank:
> Java Fern
> Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'
> Bacopa caroliniana
> 
> Can anyone tell me if some moss like the marimo moss ball moss can be used to cover a log? I'd like something short in a moss that could cover a log without having to be trimmed.


You can use Marino moss to tie down to logs and rocks. It takes forever to spread though, so you might want to start with a good amount. 

Sent from my Moto Z using Tapatalk


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## astex

Looking at your wood layout, the left side looks like wood that has been fallen/pushed into place by a strong current while the right side looks more like fallen tree stumps in a forest. To me, it's very confusing as the left provides visual movement and the right is like a full stop.

I'd pick one look or the other and go with it, but both in the same tank is distracting.


----------



## chayos00

astex said:


> Looking at your wood layout, the left side looks like wood that has been fallen/pushed into place by a strong current while the right side looks more like fallen tree stumps in a forest. To me, it's very confusing as the left provides visual movement and the right is like a full stop.
> 
> I'd pick one look or the other and go with it, but both in the same tank is distracting.


Thank you for your input. I'm not quite finished with how the wood is going to be. As my large log on the left is still wanting to float. I'm not sure how I'm going to make the final setup yet, but I'll take your input into consideration and play with keeping the tree on the right or not. If only I could find more like the one on the right! LOL

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

Well I think my cycle is finally finished, based on the sump being separated from the display tank. I suspected the osmocote put in the substrate was leaching some so I did a water change to get my levels on nitrite down to 0 and my nitrates back to a readable level. The sump processed 1ppm of ammonia and nitrites in less than 24hrs to 0. However the DT has a reading between 0 and 0.25ppm this morning. However the nitrates weren't much more than my post water change test. I dosed 3ppm of ammonia in the sump and will see how that processes out today, if it handles that without any nitrites after 24hrs I know I'm good for stocking fish then. Except I need to get some plants first LOL


----------



## BettaBettas

Tank looks super nice!  cichlids?


----------



## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> Tank looks super nice!  cichlids?


Thanks! I'm not really a fan of cichlids for the most part, I see too many people doing them around here. But the closest I will come to them is angel fish. It'll be more of a community tank with schools of smaller fish.


----------



## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> Thanks! I'm not really a fan of cichlids for the most part, I see too many people doing them around here. But the closest I will come to them is angel fish. It'll be more of a community tank with schools of smaller fish.


Oooh, sounds good! I suggest pacific blue eyes. very pretty fish.


----------



## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> Oooh, sounds good! I suggest pacific blue eyes. very pretty fish.


These guys? Pseudomugil signifer ? Pacific Blue-eye (Atherinosoma jamesonii, Atherina signata) ? Seriously Fish


----------



## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> These guys? Pseudomugil signifer ? Pacific Blue-eye (Atherinosoma jamesonii, Atherina signata) ? Seriously Fish


Yep. There is a couple different kinds I do believe...


----------



## chayos00

Did some tweaking of my hardscape (wood part). Let me know what you guys think. Had to move the plants I do have to the right side so they wouldn't be in the way on the left side as I was moving things around. 

Looks like I'm going to have to play with the settings on my Canon 70D DSLR to get these photo's just right and not overpowered by the light. 

The log on the left side is almost fully sunk, still needs the rock on it, so some of them around it may be tweaked once it's sunk. 

FTS:









Right Side:







[/url]

Left Side:







[/url]


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## astex

That looks good. I might move the long log to the right a little more, right now it looks like it starts in the middle of the tank. I love exact symmetry, but in fish tanks, the golden rule seems to work a bit better.

I re-did my tank for about 12 hours of fussing total over several days fighting my tendency to hit on half and quarter way points instead of 3/5 point, but going with the 3/5ths really made a visual difference.


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## Freemananana

The scape is fine IMO, but will require plants to really get a good idea. If it were just the wood, I'd place it most on the right side and make a large formation that dissipates as it moves to the left. But planting on, under and around the log to the left can make it seem like a large piece which would look very good. 

Only time will tell!


----------



## chayos00

astex said:


> That looks good. I might move the long log to the right a little more, right now it looks like it starts in the middle of the tank. I love exact symmetry, but in fish tanks, the golden rule seems to work a bit better.
> 
> I re-did my tank for about 12 hours of fussing total over several days fighting my tendency to hit on half and quarter way points instead of 3/5 point, but going with the 3/5ths really made a visual difference.


Thanks again for the input, however I'm trying to keep the left side of the tank with the 2/3rds separation and full of plants around that side of the tank and come down to the lower right side with the tree on the right with a minimal amount of plants on the right. Plus with the rocks you would have me going against that separation for the rule of thirds. 



Freemananana said:


> The scape is fine IMO, but will require plants to really get a good idea. If it were just the wood, I'd place it most on the right side and make a large formation that dissipates as it moves to the left. But planting on, under and around the log to the left can make it seem like a large piece which would look very good.
> 
> Only time will tell!


Thank you again for liking the scape! Your mind is seeing what I was thinking too with the heavy plants on the left side of the tank too. The vals along the back with the log covered in the petite anubis and the other plants around it. But of course plants may change over time. LOL


----------



## Freemananana

chayos00 said:


> Thank you again for liking the scape! Your mind is seeing what I was thinking too with the heavy plants on the left side of the tank too. The vals along the back with the log covered in the petite anubis and the other plants around it. But of course plants may change over time. LOL


Yup! I recall you mentioning wanting to plant it with anubias, which will look good. I would try and fill in under it as well. It will make it look like a much larger piece of wood just engulfed in plant mass.


----------



## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> Yup! I recall you mentioning wanting to plant it with anubias, which will look good. I would try and fill in under it as well. It will make it look like a much larger piece of wood just engulfed in plant mass.


Yup it will have plants all around, I was thinking of using the blyxa japonica around that area as it sounds as if it stays a smaller size that could go under and around that log. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## Craigthor

Nice build! You're going to be busy this weekend...


----------



## fokestn

Looks fantastic! That stand is on point. I love the look. I wish I had planned for hydraulics to lift the canopy. I've been thinking about retrofitting mine.

The tank is looking great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

fokestn said:


> Looks fantastic! That stand is on point. I love the look. I wish I had planned for hydraulics to lift the canopy. I've been thinking about retrofitting mine.
> 
> The tank is looking great!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Took a bit of trial and error for those. But the place I bought them from did take my return without issues. I do need to put a few screws in the canopy near the shocks as the wood is separating from the internal frame a touch. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

Craigthor said:


> Nice build! You're going to be busy this weekend...


Thanks for the anubis that are coming! I'm sure I'll be playing with plants plenty the coming day! Saturday there's a local planted tank meeting in Phoenix, so I'll be headed up there for some plants too. Then Sunday doing some 4x4ing, so most likely Monday will be the day. 

Also from Reddit's aquaswap I'm getting 10 corkscrew vals and 1 amazon red sword. So down to needing: blyxa japonica, Fissidens fontanus, & Java Fern needle leafs.


----------



## chayos00

Craigthor said:


> Nice build! You're going to be busy this weekend...


Take a look at the log with all the anubis on it now! Took a while to put all 100+ plants tied to it!



So got the anubis from Craigthor and then I also got a few others from the Arizona Aquatic Plant Enthusiast group meeting and finally planted the tank yesterday. 

Plant List: 
Blyxa Japonica
Anubias Barteri Var. Nana Petite & some larger ones
Vallisneria spiralis (corkscrew and italian)
Java Fern needle leaf (they called in long leaf, but it's the skinny leafs looking one I wanted)
Java Fern
Chain Sword
Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'
Bacopa caroliniana
Amazon Sword
Amazon Red Sword

Still need:
Phoenix moss, Fissidens fontanus

FTS:


----------



## BettaBettas

oh gosh! didn't those types of plants coming, changed my mind looks great


----------



## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> oh gosh! didn't those types of plants coming, changed my mind looks great


Well glad you like how it's turned out!


So since I'm getting diatoms going like wild in the tank, do you think it's too soon for Oto's to start cleaning the tank up? Or do they need a tank that's been running longer than a month. Yes the cycle is confirmed completed. It will cycle 10+ml of ammonia to nitrAtes in less than 24hrs. I dropped down to about 6-7ml's every other day, as my nitrates were getting too high too quickly. 

I'm also debating, if I should put in the MTS snails in this tank like I have in my 10g tank.


----------



## Craigthor

How long did that take?


----------



## BettaBettas

IMO I wouldn't go MTS, go with something less invasive. Ramhorns are "invasive" but aren't to "invasive" maybe get the population of MTS or Rams going then get a puffer or something to lower that population to keep it steady


----------



## chayos00

Craigthor said:


> How long did that take?


Probably 2-3 hrs to tie all those anubis to the log. LOL I was going along not making them "thick" enough and then once I got to the bottom I wound my way backup filling in gaps. LOL I put all the small ones higher up and the big ones at the bottom on the log. 

The other not so fun part was tying the new Java ferns to rocks to let them grow out so I can place them later when they get bigger. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> IMO I wouldn't go MTS, go with something less invasive. Ramhorns are "invasive" but aren't to "invasive" maybe get the population of MTS or Rams going then get a puffer or something to lower that population to keep it steady


I have them for my pea puffer tank and they hide during the day now and only come out at night. I was only thinking of the MTS due to the sand substrate and going 4-6" deep on the left half of the tank. Just to keep it stirred up from going bad on me. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> I have them for my pea puffer tank and they hide during the day now and only come out at night. I was only thinking of the MTS due to the sand substrate and going 4-6" deep on the left half of the tank. Just to keep it stirred up from going bad on me.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


 pros and cons I suppose, if your substrate is going to be 4"+ deep than I would throw some in there I guess. Would help aerate it


----------



## bbroush

You can always do MTS and assassin snails to keep the pest population down


----------



## chayos00

bbroush said:


> You can always do MTS and assassin snails to keep the pest population down


Isn't MTS vs assassin snails, really just one snail vs the other.... as both breed readily. I don't know about assassin's and how they turn the soil, but I know MTS do. 

Edit: No pest snails in there yet. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> Isn't MTS vs assassin snails, really just one snail vs the other.... as both breed readily. I don't know about assassin's and how they turn the soil, but I know MTS do.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


 Well if your looking for something to basically Till your substrate then go with corys. Works with me, they turn up all the sand! :nerd:


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> Well if your looking for something to basically Till your substrate then go with corys. Works with me, they turn up all the sand! :nerd:


Yeah I want to get some of them too! 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> Yeah I want to get some of them too!
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


 Well if your going to get them for sure I suggest Pandas  they are so awesome and interactive. Plus they are neat looking. If you get them the MTS's are really just up to if you want to add them or not. The corys Will till up some of those trapped air bubbles. So MTS like I said is just if you want something else in your tank or not at that point


----------



## chayos00

So I picked up some fish today! Woot Woot!! As well as ordering some from Liveaquaria.com.

Fish picked up today:
6 x Panda Cory (Corydoras panda)
6 x Julii Cory (Corydoras julii)
10 x Glass Bloodfin Tetra (Prionobrama filigera)
5 x Von Rio Tetra (Hyphessobrycon flammeus)
6 x Oto (Otocinclus vittatus)

Fish on order
2 x Glass Bloodfin Tetra (Prionobrama filigera)
18 x Oto (Otocinclus vittatus)
12 x Rummynose Tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri)
20 x Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi)
12 x Glowlight Tetra (Hemigrammus erythrozonus)

Picking up tomorrow at another store:
7 x Von Rio Tetra (Hyphessobrycon flammeus)

Taking from my other tank:
1 x Clown Pleco (Panaque maccus)

Want, but will find them later in time:
8 x Angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare)

So later it will be as follows: (I tweaked the size to indicate about 160g, vs the 125g DT I have to include the sump volume.


----------



## BettaBettas

go pandas! also seems you picked a good stock


----------



## Freemananana

Your stocking is very similar to an idea I was tossing around. I guess I can live it out vicariously through this build! I was thinking of 20 fish schools of a BUNCH of different fish and really having a vibrant system. I settled on a large school of a single fish instead though.


I also noticed we have the same ferts... what is your dosing regiment looking like? I have the same size display tank, and based on your 160g, about the same size sump.


----------



## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> Your stocking is very similar to an idea I was tossing around. I guess I can live it out vicariously through this build! I was thinking of 20 fish schools of a BUNCH of different fish and really having a vibrant system. I settled on a large school of a single fish instead though.
> 
> 
> I also noticed we have the same ferts... what is your dosing regimen looking like? I have the same size display tank, and based on your 160g, about the same size sump.


I started the tank with osmocote in the substrate and I do have PPS Pro ferts which I'm dosing as EI in my 10g tank. I was trying to dose every day, but I tend to forget LOL. So the root tabs that I put the osmocote in work best in that tank I believe. We'll see how the 125g works with needing ferts. 



Alright, here's the final count minus 1 clown pleco, as he's in a 10g tank and I want to wait till the new fish are healthy and proven healthy for a few weeks. Two ghost shrimp are dead, one had an internal worm, so I had to cull him and found another one dead. Then one oto was dead in transit and one amano shrimp, which I already have been credited by LiveAquaria.com. 

20 x Black Neon Tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi)
*20 x Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi)* - All
*12 x Glass Bloodfin Tetra (Prionobrama filigera)* - 2
12 x Von Rio Tetra (Hyphessobrycon flammeus)
*12 x Rummynose Tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri)* - All
*12 x Glowlight Tetra (Hemigrammus erythrozonus)* - All
12 x Panda Cory (Corydoras panda)
9 x Julii Cory (Corydoras julii)
*23 x Oto (Otocinclus vittatus)* - [STRIKE]18[/STRIKE] 17
3 x Clown Pleco (Panaque maccus)
*19 x Amano Shrimp (Cardina multidentata)* - All
43 x Ghost Shrimp (Palaemonetes sp.)

The bold lines are I got all or some from the website, with the number from the website listed 
behind the name.

Hope this works, but the video for the tank to show what's in there is as follows: *Youtube Video: Day 2, 125g DT loaded with fish*


----------



## ScubaSteve

Wow...can't wait to see all of those fish in your aquarium.


----------



## Freemananana

I'll be looking to watch this on my computer later.


----------



## chayos00

ScubaSteve said:


> Wow...can't wait to see all of those fish in your aquarium.


I posted a YouTube video link along with the fish list. You should be able to take a look there and see the beginning of it all. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## ScubaSteve

chayos00 said:


> I posted a YouTube video link along with the fish list. You should be able to take a look there and see the beginning of it all.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


Sorry...I missed that. Watching it now.

Bump: Very, very nice! Looks awesome!


----------



## chayos00

These are some photo's I took the other day when I got my fish shipment in. 

I've lost a few fish since getting them in. The Rummynose Tetra's are the ones that are sensitive from what it seems. The lost ones are below. I know I should have put the fish into QT but my 100g tank wasn't set up yet. Anything going forward will be put into QT! I knew the Oto's would have a few lost, but that's what you get with sensitive wild caught fish. 

Dead Count:
Rummynose Tetra - 5
Glowlight Tetra - 1
Oto - 5
Amano Shrimp - 6
Ghost Shrimp - 7

I've also realized I need some way to stop my fish from taking a swim down to the sump, this is where I've found most of my dead shrimp. I had to vacuum out last night as there was too many in a corner.

Just opened the box.









They put heaters in the box to keep the fish warm enough. Granted they were shipped from California to here in Arizona so it didn't get too cold. 









My daughter trying to get into my sump. LOL She likes to throw her binky into the water and splash in it if I'm not looking. She's sneaky!! But I'm also floating the fish in the bags.









My little Oto tree!









My panda cory's and one julli in the corner digging. 









A shot of some of the fish.









Full shot of the sump and tank. Yeah I know the sump is messy, I need to get some organization to it all. LOL


----------



## Greggz

And now, the award for "Longest Build Thread on the TPT" goes to.............(drum roll)..............

chayos00 for his work on "Chayos00's 125g tank build" (applause, clapping)........

thread started on 1-30-2014, fish in the tank today!!!:grin2::grin2:

But in all seriousness, I have enjoyed watching this thread, and your results are fantastic. Very, very nicely done. Keep the updates coming now that you are up and running.


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> And now, the award for "Longest Build Thread on the TPT" goes to.............(drum roll)..............
> 
> chayos00 for his work on "Chayos00's 125g tank build" (applause, clapping)........
> 
> thread started on 1-30-2014, fish in the tank today!!!:grin2::grin2:
> 
> But in all seriousness, I have enjoyed watching this thread, and your results are fantastic. Very, very nicely done. Keep the updates coming now that you are up and running.


Thank you Greggz! The first fish hit the tank on 03/02/2017. I'm very glad it's up and running, the wife is glad that my "girlfriend" is finished too, but now to spend time with the family instead of "the other lady!" Updates will continue for sure!


----------



## Freemananana

Dang! That's REALLY unfortunate. That's quite a bit of fish. Just a heads up on the overflow bit, gutter guard from Home Depot or Lowes has always worked for me. I used it on my 75g after I found EVERY single fish made it down the overflow (neons, cherry barbs, Denison barbs and even shrimp) over night. Even some 10 ppi foam may work well for you. It does clog fast though, compared to gutter guard. I did see you post the cory shot in a Facebook group as well. haha. Anyway, good luck.


----------



## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> Dang! That's REALLY unfortunate. That's quite a bit of fish. Just a heads up on the overflow bit, gutter guard from Home Depot or Lowes has always worked for me. I used it on my 75g after I found EVERY single fish made it down the overflow (neons, cherry barbs, Denison barbs and even shrimp) over night. Even some 10 ppi foam may work well for you. It does clog fast though, compared to gutter guard. I did see you post the cory shot in a Facebook group as well. haha. Anyway, good luck.


Yeah I was trying to think of an idea on how I can get a guard around my overflow, but only thing that came to mind was some sort of a SS mesh that I could make a 2"x2" box around the overflow teeth to keep the shrimp and fish out of the sump. I was thinking about poret foam, as I got an extra sheet of 20 and 30ppi that I wondered if I should cut a strip of it and see if it would suck to the front of the overflow teeth. I'll have to go check out Home Depot to see what they have for gutter guard. Thanks for the suggestion!


Alright, I've done a few more pictures over the last few days that I want to share as well.

So first I had to a bit of repair on the canopy, the lift shocks were causing the nails to pull out. They've since been screwed together and used some wood glue between the gaps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Damage:


















Repair in progress:









My little helper trying to help, when I turned around and saw her I had to take her picture and then get her down LOL









Okay to the fish now!



























Someone wanted more shots of the driftwood on Reddit, so here you get them too!



























When I'm working, I'll be looking at the tank from this end.



























Ghost Shrimp









Mr, or Miss Amano Shrimp









Rare shot of the Clown Pleco









Bonus shot of my dwarf puffers, doing what I think is getting it on. They had a whole little show and dance they were doing. I briefly entertained the idea of having a tank full of these little guys, but I wanted more fish than just a large species tank for now. Maybe one day.


----------



## chayos00

Alright, I went to Home Depot and picked up the only gutter guards they had and was going to bend them into shape. They are metal, with a painted on coating that is black. Well I put one in front of the tank overnight and was going to get it working today. However after I got home after running some errands, there were like 7 dead fish in the tank..... So not knowing if the gutter guard had something on it that a rinse didn't take care of I did an 80% water change and put a bag of carbon in the water to hopefully clear out whatever possible poison that was in the water.

So looks like my best bet is to order some SS Mesh off of Amazon. I've found some 36'x36' sheets in a 16x16, 14x14x, or 12x12 mesh, which means x# of holes LxW in a 1" square. These are a few in stock right now.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005H3F0PU/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005H3EXT4/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005H3F5HI/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

I'm thinking the 12x12 mesh so that way it doesn't clog as much. Or should I cut up some of the 20ppi poret foam that is 1" thick and put that in front of the teeth of the overflow? I have the poret, but I don't have the mesh.


----------



## chayos00

Today I scooped out everything from the sump and put it back in the DT again... I cut some 20ppi poret foam into 2" strips and covered the intake for the overflow to keep fish and shrimp out of the sump for now. Not pretty, but does the job.


----------



## astex

There is a plastic gutter guard, which comes on a roll, which is what I think the other poster was talking about. I ordered mine off Amazon, but it does work well as it's large enough to not block the flow, but keeps most critters out of the sump.


----------



## chayos00

astex said:


> There is a plastic gutter guard, which comes on a roll, which is what I think the other poster was talking about. I ordered mine off Amazon, but it does work well as it's large enough to not block the flow, but keeps most critters out of the sump.


Yeah I thought home depot had it in store, but turns out only online. I'll have to look for it online. 

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## chayos00

There's been no progress for the overflow keeping the fish out. However I think I now know why my fish are dying off as they are. I do have meds on the way, as locally the meds are like twice the price vs Amazon, as well as some not being stocked locally.

I have noticed the following health issues: Popeye, what I can only assume is fin rot, and the dreaded ICH. The first few fish I figured were just weakened already and ill, but I NEVER saw any external visible issues with them before finding dead fish. I finally noticed the white spots of ICH last night and have upped the temp in the tank to 86°F. However I read also that you should 89.5°F for either the first 4 days and then back down to 86°F for the rest of the time for up to 10 days minimum. So I actually just bumped the temp up to 89°F and then tweaked my overflow main drain line to cause more water to go through the secondary pipe to get more water churning and bubbling into the sump to increase oxygenation of the water, I also have 1 air stone and 2 sponge filters in the sump running too.

Lesson learned..... I screwed up not doing a QT!! I got impatient on wanting to add fish and did it against my better judgement! Down 46 fish so far... 39 of them being credited through LiveAquaria though.


----------



## Freemananana

Which fish displayed ich first? The chains or liveaquaria?


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## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> Which fish displayed ich first? The chains or liveaquaria?


I honestly don't know. There was a slow down on death till the other day after I picked up a few cory's and a couple of other fish that had died from Petco. But the ones that have died the most are the Cardinals from LiveAquaria.


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## Nlewis

chayos00 said:


> I honestly don't know. There was a slow down on death till the other day after I picked up a few cory's and a couple of other fish that had died from Petco. But the ones that have died the most are the Cardinals from LiveAquaria.


If I'm not mistaken Liveaquaria and Petco are the same.


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## chayos00

Nlewis said:


> If I'm not mistaken Liveaquaria and Petco are the same.


Dr Foster and Smith and LiveAquaria are the same, don't know about Petco though. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## Nlewis

chayos00 said:


> Dr Foster and Smith and LiveAquaria are the same, don't know about Petco though.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


Word on the street is that Petco owns both. 

Holy smokes, Petco bought Liveaquaria??? - Reef Central Online Community


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## chayos00

You are correct, they are.... 









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## Nlewis

So its true, what a couple of sell outs, lmao.


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## Freemananana

http://www.petco.com/content/petco/PetcoStore/en_US/pet-services/drs-foster-and-smith.html

"Petco is proud to announce that we have acquired online pet retailer Drs. Foster and Smith. This new addition will in pet products and services"

It would seem that way!


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## chayos00

Well, the normal Petco I go to aren't in bad health, but this time I picked up from the brand new store that just opened. 

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## Freemananana

chayos00 said:


> Well, the normal Petco I go to aren't in bad health, but this time I picked up from the brand new store that just opened.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


The petsmart by my old place was pretty decent as well. I bought 8 or 9 denison barbs during their $5 sale and only lost one, a few months after the purchase. I also bought 2 bristlenose plecos in good health and they were champs. With that said, I don't really trust their bulk supply as much as I do individual stores since owners operate independently and staff can be lazy/unknowledgeable/etc.


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## Nlewis

Idk, i avoid Petco like the plague. Every time i walk into one all i find is disease ridden fish, its like no one cares there. I literally drive 60 miles to an LFS that is 50 miles farther than the closest LFS to but fish.


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## Freemananana

I have a decent LFS near my work, 30 miles from home, so I hit it on the way home if I have time after work. Definitely worth it from my experience. I'd avoid LiveAquaria if at all possible. The warranty is nice though.


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## chayos00

I avoid the chain stores that have sucky livestock. Each one is different car sure! However one penny sources had fish that were carriers, but oh well.... not much I can do about that now besides get them better now. 

But on another note, I forgot to dip the Anubis plants in a salt bath and I have pest snails now..... just might have to get a few more dwarf puffers to keep them under control. I pick them out when I see them, but for each one I see I'm sure there are 40 more I don't see. 










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## Freemananana

I'd avoid puffers in a community setup. They are aggressive. An assassin snail or two or three would work wonders. Even a YoYo loach pack would be more appropriate, even though they can be hit or miss as far as aggression as well.


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## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> I'd avoid puffers in a community setup. They are aggressive. An assassin snail or two or three would work wonders. Even a YoYo loach pack would be more appropriate, even though they can be hit or miss as far as aggression as well.


Since assassin snails kill all other snails, they would take out my MTS snails and then I would also have a tank full of assassin snails. Might have to look into the loach method instead. 

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## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> I avoid the chain stores that have sucky livestock. Each one is different car sure! However one penny sources had fish that were carriers, but oh well.... not much I can do about that now besides get them better now. Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


 If you ever want a fish from a chain store, such as Petco lets say. Ask them if you can order it, then tell them once they get that fish do not take it out of the bag. 
But make sure you pick the fish up right-on-time.


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> If you ever want a fish from a chain store, such as Petco lets say. Ask them if you can order it, then tell them once they get that fish do not take it out of the bag.
> But make sure you pick the fish up right-on-time.


Yeah, I'll be having to ask for an order of fish when mine become healthy again. I'm going to need a bunch more of the cardinals again, as I'm down to 3 left out of the 20 I started with. However depending upon his price, I may go to my local fish store vs the big box store this time. But then again, when have you seen cardinals at Petsmart or Petco.... LOL

Either way, they will go through QT!


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## chayos00

Just got my delivery of the SS mesh (48xx36" sheet) that I will use to make a filter intake guard with tomorrow. The UPS guy dropped it off at 8:15pm..... what was this man doing all day?! LOL


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## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> The UPS guy dropped it off at 8:15pm..... what was this man doing all day?! LOL


 Lol, the world may never know :wink2:


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## Pat24601

BettaBettas said:


> Lol, the world may never know :wink2:


The UPS guy definitely needs to get his priorities straight!


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## BettaBettas

Pat24601 said:


> The UPS guy definitely needs to get his priorities straight!


 My ups guy is the nicest person ever, im in a rural area so he knows everyone by name lol. He'll drive up my driveway (like 1 mile long) and say hi and stuff, not in a slacking way but in a greeting hows it been going kind of way, Nice guy


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## johnson18

Which Petco do you go to? You're in Tucson, right? The ones I've been to are all horrible, I wouldn't touch their fish if they were free. I've had great luck with ANA. I know that on some things Ben is quite a bit more pricey, but a bunch of his fish are priced pretty close. If you ever talk to them about their QT process it's worth the extra $1.50. lol. I've never had any problems with any of the livestock I've bought from ANA either. I haven't found any of the local Petco or Petsmarts that I am willing to buy fish from....

On a different note, the tank is looking good. The anubias covered driftwood is awesome! If you've seen my 55, you know I love anubias covered DW. haha. This tank is gonna be pretty sweet once the rest of the plants start to fill in!


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> My ups guy is the nicest person ever, im in a rural area so he knows everyone by name lol. He'll drive up my driveway (like 1 mile long) and say hi and stuff, not in a slacking way but in a greeting hows it been going kind of way, Nice guy


The UPS guy we have sometimes rotates between 2 guys, but usually one main dude. However the thing that bugs me the most is that my emails or texts tell me I had a delivery, they drop and run 99% of the time! So annoying, most delivery companies are like that except the mail person. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

johnson18 said:


> Which Petco do you go to? You're in Tucson, right? The ones I've been to are all horrible, I wouldn't touch their fish if they were free. I've had great luck with ANA. I know that on some things Ben is quite a bit more pricey, but a bunch of his fish are priced pretty close. If you ever talk to them about their QT process it's worth the extra $1.50. lol. I've never had any problems with any of the livestock I've bought from ANA either. I haven't found any of the local Petco or Petsmarts that I am willing to buy fish from....
> 
> On a different note, the tank is looking good. The anubias covered driftwood is awesome! If you've seen my 55, you know I love anubias covered DW. haha. This tank is gonna be pretty sweet once the rest of the plants start to fill in!


The petco I have gotten from is the Oro Valley one. I made the mistake of getting a few from the new one off Cortaro Rd. It just opened. The OV Petsmart is funky too, those tanks need a good cleaning for sure! The Petsmart on Orange Grove and River isn't too bad, however I have only ever gotten ghost shrimp from them before without issues. 

I got some of the fish from Desert Pet down on 22nd and they didn't seem to have issues with their tanks I noticed, but that's a first for me going there. 

Yeah I love Ben's store and I did price compare some fish after I went there and most were within $2 per dish except the rummynose, his were $7.99 but liveaquaria was $1.49 per fish, so I ordered from there and got several more fish. However for the ones I lost will next be coming from ANA and going through QT! 

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## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> The UPS guy we have sometimes rotates between 2 guys, but usually one main dude. However the thing that bugs me the most is that my emails or texts tell me I had a delivery, they drop and run 99% of the time! So annoying, most delivery companies are like that except the mail person.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


 you mean like he'll put it on your porch (example) and just leave it an go? 
Lol we have that problem to, he left four two hundred and sixty dollar fans (plus) at the bottom of our driveway.... But we have a automatic gate so he didn't really have a choice I guess, ill have to get a big box for him or something, what if someone just comes up and snatches all of our stuff???


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> you mean like he'll put it on your porch (example) and just leave it an go?
> Lol we have that problem to, he left four two hundred and sixty dollar fans (plus) at the bottom of our driveway.... But we have a automatic gate so he didn't really have a choice I guess, ill have to get a big box for him or something, what if someone just comes up and snatches all of our stuff???


Yup, drop on the porch and run! The courtyard to our house opens up to the right a bit where they could easily hide stuff so not to be seen from the street, but they still leave it on the door step seen from the street. Luckily I now work from home and my den is right by the front door so I can normally see when something is dropped off. However like last night we were getting my daughter ready for bed and had no idea he stopped by. Normally I can hear his truck motor racing as he goes from house to house. 

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## chayos00

So looks like this morning, I have my first day of not having to pull out any dead fish from the tank! Woot Woot! Now I just need to run to HD to get some metal sheers so I can cut the SS mesh to make a filter intake guard for my overflow. Then hopefully work on my LED light too!


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## johnson18

I'm on the far East side of town so I've never been to the Oro Valley stores or the OG & River. I got my nerites from the Petsmart in El Con. most of their tanks look alright, but you have to deal with the El Con parking lot! Hahaha! The Petsmart further East on Broadway & Pantano is hit or miss, sometimes their tanks are alright & others they're full of sick fish. 

I got my Sterbai corys from Ben and they were a little more expensive then from Petsmart because Petsmart had them on sale at the time. The one's from ANA looked so much better though & I've had no issues since! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

johnson18 said:


> I'm on the far East side of town so I've never been to the Oro Valley stores or the OG & River. I got my nerites from the Petsmart in El Con. most of their tanks look alright, but you have to deal with the El Con parking lot! Hahaha! The Petsmart further East on Broadway & Pantano is hit or miss, sometimes their tanks are alright & others they're full of sick fish.
> 
> I got my Sterbai corys from Ben and they were a little more expensive then from Petsmart because Petsmart had them on sale at the time. The one's from ANA looked so much better though & I've had no issues since!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like we are on opposite sides of town! LOL I picked up 20 black neon's from the OV Petco and they were supposed to be $50 overall, but they were half off for some reason, I was like SCORE! LOL 

I looked at the Sterbai cories, but Ben suggested not getting them as I am running tap water vs softened water as they were wild caught Sterbai's. So I stuck with Julii's and Panda's.


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## BettaBettas

phhhhhh sounds like a UPS stalker at the last part you said "*deep scary voice* However like last night *deep dramatic dark breath* we were getting my daughter ready for bed *sigh* and had no idea he stopped by. Normally I can hear his truck motor racing as he goes from house to house claiming his victims.


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> phhhhhh sounds like a UPS stalker at the last part you said "*deep scary voice* However like last night *deep dramatic dark breath* we were getting my daughter ready for bed *sigh* and had no idea he stopped by. Normally I can hear his truck motor racing as he goes from house to house claiming his victims.


I laughed out loud as I was walking through Home Depot reading this! 

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## chayos00

Alright after a number of small cuts and stabs from the SS mesh screen I have, not the prettiest solution but a very functional solution! 










And now I realize I forgot to take a pic of the screen installed. I'll get one later after I'm awake for the day, as I'm feeding my baby boy at the moment. On a side note I have a TON of screen left for moss. LOL 

I have the screen about a 1" gap from the front and sides to give spacing to allow fish and shrimp to not get stuck on the screen. 

Update: Here is the screen installed. 



















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## chayos00

Alright, so first 14 days after getting the fish from LiveAquaria.com and getting the credit for the fish that have not made it due to getting ill.

The file wasn't set to count the shrimp and I also lost track of them, so not sure of the true number of shrimp. But started with 136 fish, added 8 later (think this is when ICH hit) and I'm sitting at 71 dead and 73 alive. 52 were reported to LA for credit. Today was the first anyone questioned anything about the losses, I had to explain my cycle process and my current levels of ammonia and nitrates. Either way, for me at least they weren't a total financial loss. Should end up with a total credit of about $150-160. 

I updated my previous post with pics of the overflow guard. However it now looks like it almost needs to become a moss covered wall. LOL Can't wait for the vals to grow in and hide it! On a side note, I have plenty of leftover SS mesh to use for moss!


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## BettaBettas

never buy fish from commercial sites, kind of like never buy plants from aquariumplants.com


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> never buy fish from commercial sites, kind of like never buy plants from aquariumplants.com


Next batch will be most likely from my local shop Arizona Nature Aquatics. 

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## BettaBettas

chayos00 said:


> Next batch will be most likely from my local shop Arizona Nature Aquatics.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


 if you ever order fish online again, my best experience.
https://aquaticarts.com/collections/freshwater-plants
its dank so it must be good right?


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> if you ever order fish online again, my best experience.
> https://aquaticarts.com/collections/freshwater-plants
> its dank so it must be good right?


There are two fish I just saw on there I want now! LOL Thanks for the website! 



















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## BettaBettas

IKR ITS SO ADDICTING
im ordering my pacific blue yes from there. when I saw them I just couldn't take my eyes off them...
I LOVE emperor tetras and they are stunning beautiful fish (not any more than pacific blue yes though...) and I would get some but they are big...


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## chayos00

Alright, day 11 of the tank running 86+℉. I haven't seen any more signs of ICH in a bit. Nor has there been anymore deadloss. Going to drop the temp to 81℉ today and then back to 77℉ tomorrow. Once the temps are back down I'll do some water changes. 

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## chayos00

*Day #30 Update*

Alright folks, it's been a bit, but things are finally settled in the tank and I haven't seen any death for a while now. The fish are looking healthy again and everyone is acting normal. However taking pictures of moving fish is a PITA. LOL But on another note, I need to figure out proper exposure for my camera to take better looking pictures. DSLR's have much to learn about besides being in auto. 

FTS Day #30









Left side:









Right Side:









Von Rio Tetra's:









Glass Bloodfin Tetra, Glowlight Tetra, & Black Neon Tetra's:









Glass Bloodfin Tetra:









Panda Cory:









Phoenix Moss - This stuff doesn't look like it was able to handle the 90°F water. Will give it a bit more time to see if it recovers or not, if it doesn't, there goes about $20....









Inside shot from right to left:


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## BettaBettas

that inside right to left shot looked really nice! success is not a dream anymore for you!


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> that inside right to left shot looked really nice! success is not a dream anymore for you!


Thank you! It's actually my favorite view! It gives you that whole landscape view of everything.


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## ua hua

chayos00 said:


> There are two fish I just saw on there I want now! LOL Thanks for the website!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


I would pass on the blue tetras if I were you. They look nice but from experience they can be kind of aggressive towards each other and other tetras. They will bully and nip at the fins of other fish including fish larger than them.


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## chayos00

ua hua said:


> I would pass on the blue tetras if I were you. They look nice but from experience they can be kind of aggressive towards each other and other tetras. They will bully and nip at the fins of other fish including fish larger than them.


Good feedback! Haven't had the chance to look up either of these fish as I haven't setup a QT system yet. 

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## chayos00

ua hua said:


> I would pass on the blue tetras if I were you. They look nice but from experience they can be kind of aggressive towards each other and other tetras. They will bully and nip at the fins of other fish including fish larger than them.


So I did some more reading up on them and it mainly indicates the harassing behavior comes into play more with tanks that aren't larger. Also how big of group did you keep them in? I would be starting out with at least 12, which is what my plan was and what I did with all the other fish I have (well.... what's left till I get a QT setup and get more fish) 

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## ua hua

chayos00 said:


> So I did some more reading up on them and it mainly indicates the harassing behavior comes into play more with tanks that aren't larger. Also how big of group did you keep them in? I would be starting out with at least 12, which is what my plan was and what I did with all the other fish I have (well.... what's left till I get a QT setup and get more fish)
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


I had about 16 of them in my 90 and they were very active but also seemed to nip at each other as well as other tetras in the tank. As far as tetras go these are not a choice I would make. I have about 35 serpae tetras right now that can be nippy but they are nothing like what the blue tetras are like. I would go with the Emperor tetras before the blue tetras if it was me, but you are more than welcome to try the blue tetras I'm just warning you they have the temperament of a much larger fish.


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## chayos00

ua hua said:


> I had about 16 of them in my 90 and they were very active but also seemed to nip at each other as well as other tetras in the tank. As far as tetras go these are not a choice I would make. I have about 35 serpae tetras right now that can be nippy but they are nothing like what the blue tetras are like. I would go with the Emperor tetras before the blue tetras if it was me, but you are more than welcome to try the blue tetras I'm just warning you they have the temperament of a much larger fish.


Good to know, thanks for confirming the number you had/have and the tank size. Might have to skip on them then! LOL

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## chayos00

So I'm getting close to having my LED light fixture done. As well as today with the Petco $1 per gallon sales (for only up to 29g tanks, the larger ones are 50% off instead) I picked up 4 20g tanks for using as QT tanks to use on a rack that I'm will build once done with my LED lamp build. 

Here's the LED fixture. 









Here are my 4 20g tanks. I may measure out to see if I will be able to fit a 5th tank on the rack I want to build. 









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## Ben Belton

I didn't go back through the old threads because I am sure you talk about it, but I have to admire the amount of work involved in attaching all those Bucphs to that driftwood. And now you're doing DIY LED's. Impressive lot of effort and you can tell it is paying off.


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## BettaBettas

cant wait to see the light on the tank! will prob. grow double high tech plants  
"double high tech plants"
- Nate 2017 Title "wth?"


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## johnson18

*Chayos00's 125g tank build*



chayos00 said:


> There are two fish I just saw on there I want now! LOL Thanks for the website!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk




I saw some Rainbow Tetras last weekend from a small breeder in Prescott that were absolutely amazing! They made the Emperors look blah. I wish I'd had the room to bring them home! 


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## chayos00

Ben Belton said:


> I didn't go back through the old threads because I am sure you talk about it, but I have to admire the amount of work involved in attaching all those Bucphs to that driftwood. And now you're doing DIY LED's. Impressive lot of effort and you can tell it is paying off.


Thanks! I don't actually have any buce plants in my tank. The main one you see is the anubis plants on the sloped log. I have a separate LED build thread in my signature if you wanted to take a peak at that. This is the first I posted it to this build, but figured it was time as its getting closer to being done. 

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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> cant wait to see the light on the tank! will prob. grow double high tech plants
> "double high tech plants"
> - Nate 2017 Title "wth?"


Oh yeah I hope it will be able to! LOL that's what I like about it, it's totally adjustable and there's a guy locally with a par meter that I should be able to borrow to tweak with it and see what she does. I'll have to be careful not to overdue it without CO2! There is a setup selling locally with an unknown brand regulator and can't tell if it's a single or dual stage, but if I'm gonna go CO2 I might just get a custom made high quality CO2 dual stage regulator with a large CO2 tank like a 20lbs tank that I hope would not need refilling very often. Heck I've even though of getting a larger tank sitting in my garage and pipe it in through the wall to the tank, not sure how big those like 4-5 foot tall ones are. (Not sure if the same regulator would work though) If it doesn't work then at least 2 20lbs tanks would be what I want. 

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## chayos00

johnson18 said:


> I saw some Rainbow Tetras last weekend from a small breeder in Prescott that were absolutely amazing! They made the Emperors look blah. I wish I'd had the room to bring them home!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I wanted to go to SAKE initially, but went out to a free weekend getaway up in Pinetop instead. But will have to check them out on a PC vs the phone. 

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## BettaBettas

your par will be
OVER 9000!!!!


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## chayos00

BettaBettas said:


> your par will be
> OVER 9000!!!!


LOL And exactly why I have the O2Surplus LED drivers, I can control the current to the LED's and thus the brightness of the LED's along with my stormX controller.


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## chayos00

The LED bar is finished minus the controller wired up. 










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## ScubaSteve

Nice!


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## forrestcook

Chayos00 - Just read through the majority of your thread instead of going to bed on time... Everything looks great! I'll be going through a lot of the same steps soon as I move later this month and get to have my first tank in 6 years. Already picked up a 125 tank, thinking I'll build a stand rather than use the old slightly water damaged MDF one it came with.

I'm also in Tucson, it'd be cool to swap some plants down the road.


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## johnson18

forrestcook said:


> Chayos00 - Just read through the majority of your thread instead of going to bed on time... Everything looks great! I'll be going through a lot of the same steps soon as I move later this month and get to have my first tank in 6 years. Already picked up a 125 tank, thinking I'll build a stand rather than use the old slightly water damaged MDF one it came with.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also in Tucson, it'd be cool to swap some plants down the road.




Great to see another Tucson hobbyist in the forums! I'd definitely recommend the building a new stand vs a damaged MDF! I recent built a couple stands to use as a rack. It was surprisingly simple! 

Swapping plants with locals is fun and a great way to get some awesome plants! There's a local club, the Desert Aquarist Society, which seems to meet once a month. The April meeting it this Sunday, 4/9. More info visit their website: http://www.desertaquaristsociety.com/ As a disclaimer. I'm not a member, Sunday will be the first meeting I attend.


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## forrestcook

johnson18 said:


> Great to see another Tucson hobbyist in the forums! I'd definitely recommend the building a new stand vs a damaged MDF! I recent built a couple stands to use as a rack. It was surprisingly simple!
> 
> Swapping plants with locals is fun and a great way to get some awesome plants! There's a local club, the Desert Aquarist Society, which seems to meet once a month. The April meeting it this Sunday, 4/9. More info visit their website: http://www.desertaquaristsociety.com/ As a disclaimer. I'm not a member, Sunday will be the first meeting I attend.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Good to see you there @johnson18 ! Very excited to find out you're a crypt lover, they were hands down my favorite plants back when I had my last setup. Even grew some emersed in a palaudrium. 


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## chayos00

johnson18 said:


> Great to see another Tucson hobbyist in the forums! I'd definitely recommend the building a new stand vs a damaged MDF! I recent built a couple stands to use as a rack. It was surprisingly simple!
> 
> Swapping plants with locals is fun and a great way to get some awesome plants! There's a local club, the Desert Aquarist Society, which seems to meet once a month. The April meeting it this Sunday, 4/9. More info visit their website: http://www.desertaquaristsociety.com/ As a disclaimer. I'm not a member, Sunday will be the first meeting I attend.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To piggy back off this, my stand is a result of me trying to fix a crappy stand. Think I put some pics of it in the beginning. 

I wanted to go to the meeting today, but was busy at home with kiddos and fixing my LED lamp. 

My 10g tank is full of crypts too. LOL They sure do take over in a tank that small. 

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## chayos00

I updated the first page to have more of a summary of the whole build. Post #1 should contain my most recent tank updates, I've found I like taking a look at tank journals in this format, so hope you guys do too!


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## chayos00

SUCCESS!!!!! SHE'S ALIVE!!!! The light powers on!!!! No magic smoke release either!!

Damned it is bright in person, the video does no justice. However I remembered the driver boards are adjustable and I turned them up after the video and hit about 330 watts on my watt meter. However that one LED I suspected to be damaged from the plastic bubble isn't lighting up, nothing a new LED board won't fix.
Youtube Video - First Test W/DIY LED Build


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## chayos00

Hey folks! I've got a question that I was wondering if anyone could answer for me, or give their input on. 

So I'm wanting to do some wave pumps in my tank to help the poo get floated up better and prevent it from settling and hoping to get it sucked down the overflow to the sump. I have 1 1150gph Koralia Evolution pump as it is now that I'm putting in once a week to help stir things up for the day. Do you think I should get one more and put them on a time with the wave controller for a few hours or so. Or should I get a pair of 600gph pumps and a wave controller for full time use? I think the 1150 might be a bit much for full time as it can blast stuff around pretty good. Thoughts?


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## Ben Belton

LED's look great. Looking forward to seeing them over your tank.


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## chayos00

Ben Belton said:


> LED's look great. Looking forward to seeing them over your tank.


Thanks! Once I get the color tuned to what I'm happy with I'll be getting some pictures of the tank. Right now the plants are looking washed out, so I'm going to give them some time to see what they do and make sure I'm dosing some ferts to assist them out.


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## chayos00

I'm in need of some help here with my plants. I have the ferts for the PPS Pro setup, but was wanting to switch to EL and use it as a liquid based dispensing if I could like the PPS Pro. Nitrates average about 20-40ppm in the tank.

So I have the following ferts. Thoughts on how or ratios to mix them? I've got 2 500ml bottles that they are supposed to go into for macro's and micro's. There seems to be obvious info on how to mix setups with CO2, but since I'm NON co2, it's harder to find what's right and I'm out of my previous mix I was using for my 10g tank. 

Plantex CSM + B - 1 lb
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) - 1 lb
Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) - 1 lb
Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) - 1 lb
Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4) - 1 lb

Here's some pics of the plants and honestly they look kinda washed out with the LED's. I'll be borrowing a PAR meter to get the lights tuned for low lights soon. 

Plant List:
Blyxa Japonica (looks washed out)









Anubias Barteri Var. Nana Petite & some larger ones (Seem to be melting)


















Vallisneria spiralis (corkscrew and italian) (These seem to be sending shoots and starting to look better)









Java Fern needle leaf 
Java Fern
Chain Sword
Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'









Bacopa caroliniana
Amazon Sword
Amazon Red Sword
Phoenix moss, Fissidens fontanus (recovering from ICH treatment @ 90°F water temps)


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## chayos00

Here we go, stand for the 100g and 4 20g quarantine tanks. All cut and ready to assemble. 










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## Sean W.

Pretty good! I envy people who can cut all the pieces then assemble. I cut one piece at a time.


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## chayos00

Sean W. said:


> Pretty good! I envy people who can cut all the pieces then assemble. I cut one piece at a time.


That's how I built my original stand piece by piece. This time I've learned a few things after that build and seeing how Joey, DIY King, did his stand I was able to envision the stand in my head and made up the sizes needed to make the stand as needed. So the bottom tanks will be 9 inches from the ground and there will be 12" above that open and then the 2x4 for the upper tank. 

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## Sean W.

chayos00 said:


> That's how I built my original stand piece by piece. This time I've learned a few things after that build and seeing how Joey, DIY King, did his stand I was able to envision the stand in my head and made up the sizes needed to make the stand as needed. So the bottom tanks will be 9 inches from the ground and there will be 12" above that open and then the 2x4 for the upper tank.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I'm just critical of the 1/16" variances from piece to piece.


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## chayos00

Sean W. said:


> I'm just critical of the 1/16" variances from piece to piece.


I am as well. That's why with my chop saw I cut the pieces in sets of 4 and have them 1/4 - 1/2 too long and after getting them clamped together at one end perfectly I make one cut to make them all the same length. I did the one by one cuts before and there was always variability for me. Just could never get them perfect before. This was does it for me. 

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## Sean W.

That's a good idea. I don't think my saw is big enough to cut 4 pieces at once tho.


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## chayos00

Sean W. said:


> That's a good idea. I don't think my saw is big enough to cut 4 pieces at once tho.


I thought so at first but my 10" Roybi is doing it. LOL it only works in this orientation and just barely. A 12" saw would be better but don't want to drop 400-500 for a new saw. My dad bought this for me at the start of my stand project.









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## Sean W.

Ah yea, nice saw. The Wifey sauce got me a 10" saw from Harbor Freight for Christmas. I didnt want her to spend too much on it, considering I will only use it a handful of times per year. They only thing I dont like about my saw is that the laser is only on when the blade is spinning. Literally the dumbest thing ever...

I imagine the conversation went something like this:

*SAW DESIGNERS*

Engineer: " Hey boss I have an idea for that saw we are designing "
Boss: " Okay, whats your idea? "
Engineer: " Lets have the laser only come on when the blade is spinning "
Boss: "...... Sigh..... *shakes head*..... That is a great idea! lets do that! "


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## chayos00

Sean W. said:


> Ah yea, nice saw. The Wifey sauce got me a 10" saw from Harbor Freight for Christmas. I didnt want her to spend too much on it, considering I will only use it a handful of times per year. They only thing I dont like about my saw is that the laser is only on when the blade is spinning. Literally the dumbest thing ever...
> 
> I imagine the conversation went something like this:
> 
> *SAW DESIGNERS*
> 
> Engineer: " Hey boss I have an idea for that saw we are designing "
> Boss: " Okay, whats your idea? "
> Engineer: " Lets have the laser only come on when the blade is spinning "
> Boss: "...... Sigh..... *shakes head*..... That is a great idea! lets do that! "


Hahaha that seems like what they would do, except I can see one more part added by the boss. The conversation started with the boss saying what can we do to make this saw cheaper and the engineer said remove the laser switch and just have it powered by the trigger to turn on the blade. LOL.

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## johnson18

Sean W. said:


> I'm just critical of the 1/16" variances from piece to piece.




If you place a clamp at the distance out from your blade that you want your to be in length you shouldn't have any sort of variance as you can bump one end up next to it for each cut. At least if you're working with a table saw. 










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## chayos00

And.... ran out of screws..... Just have the cross pieces left for the support. Why can there never be just one trip to the hardware store? Ugh... LOL









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## johnson18

*Chayos00's 125g tank journal*

Lol I had to do the same thing during my builds... I think it's bound to happen.


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## Hephaestus

I've had to joys of running to the hardware store as many as 6 times in one day before (the joys of renovating a bathroom).

A project can't be done right unless you have to make an extra trip to the store. The universe just won't allow it.


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> And.... ran out of screws..... Just have the cross pieces left for the support. Why can there never be just one trip to the hardware store? Ugh... LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Nice work. Based on what I am seeing, this stand will take a LOT LESS time than the last one!!!


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## Ben Belton

Looks awesome. I can do stuff like this, but I am terrible. I overthink it and then screw everything up.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Nice work. Based on what I am seeing, this stand will take a LOT LESS time than the last one!!!


Oh the framing is all this one is getting! It's a stand to stay out in the garage for the quarantine tanks and the 100g that I got from a friend. It may become a grow out tank if I ever get babies. 

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## chayos00

Ben Belton said:


> Looks awesome. I can do stuff like this, but I am terrible. I overthink it and then screw everything up.


LOL oh it's always easy to goof things up for sure. 

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## chayos00

Okay, here's the finished stand. I'm posting from taptalk, so hopefully it goes in the right order. The 100g isn't on the stand as I need to play with the legs a touch to level it out by sanding down them some to get rid of the teetering of it. Also the garage needs to be cleaned up to figure out where I'm going to place the rack long term.


























































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## Sean W.

Looks solid!


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## forrestcook

Chayos - and you're in southern AZ right? What sort of temps are you expecting for the tanks in your garage during the summer?


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Chayos - and you're in southern AZ right? What sort of temps are you expecting for the tanks in your garage during the summer?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Based on your location listed, the same area. So the garage that these will be in are on the north side of the house and it's insulated. I want to say last year during the peak heat it would get to about 90°F in the garage. However I hope to only have to need them for temporary purposes instead of full time tanks. But if it gets too warm, I can always use fans blowing over the tanks to cool them down some.


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## forrestcook

chayos00 said:


> I want to say last year during the peak heat it would get to about 90°F in the garage. However I hope to only have to need them for temporary purposes instead of full time tanks. But if it gets too warm, I can always use fans blowing over the tanks to cool them down some.


Ok - so about what I expected. I wonder what the average temp of the tanks would be with fans... curious to see if you wouldn't mind updating this summer! Always excited to see an update on this thread. I move into my new house Saturday, then I can start buying lumber etc. to build my stand. Wife asked if I might be up and running by mid-June, probably a bit tight but I'm certainly going to try! I like the look of your stand quite a bit, though I'd probably opt for paint since I'm not confident I could get the stain and clear as even as you managed.


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## chayos00

Okay, think I've got it tweaked and setup how I want it now. I had this off the tank for just over a week and was using my 3 CFL's above the tank for lighting. I have 5 cooling cans on the heatsink installed. However I couldn't get my StormX controller to control all 5 wired together on the fan PWM output, or even a single one. I picked up a 12v 2A PSU that I was going to use, but turns out the 9v 1A PSU for the StormX runs them without issues. However I've seen a few adjustable 3-12v wall warts that I might be able to get to pick a voltage to run the fans in the future. Went from running at 110°F to about 85°F now. I just have the LED PSU and the fan PSU on a timer to come on 30 minutes before and after the lights are on. Now to just get that PAR meter LOL




























On to the tank now.

I've gotten into doing EI dosing going with 1/3 the strength for the 125g 25ml dose, but dosing at 30ml since I've got about 160g of water. Following this link Dosing Instructions I made up a liquid dose solution of EI for every other day dose of the micros and macros. 

30mL in 160g @ Low tech 1/3 dose. Mixed in 500ml Distilled water: K2HPO4 = 5.9g & KNO3 = 38.6g. Separate 500mL container: Plantex CSM+B = 24.2g.

On to the pictures. 

FTS:









Left side:









Right side:









The Fissiden Fontanus (Phoenix Moss) is coming back to life, there's new little shoots on it now! Woot Woot!









Amazon Sword (on left) & Amazon Red Sword (right side):









Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'









Blyxa Japonica (kinda looks like crap still, but they aren't dead!)









Chain Sword









From Right to Left Inside View:


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## Sean W.

Congrats on getting the light over the tank!


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## chayos00

*Day #99 Update*

Hey everyone! It's that time again, been awhile since I've updated. Not much has changed except some growth in the tank. I was dosing EI at 1/3 high tech levels every other day, but just made a new batch and seeing how 1/2 dosing is going to go. I'm also dosing 30mL of Metricide (excel concentrate) I'm starting to finally see growth happening in the tank as things are stabilizing for the tank. The anubis has died off and melted a bit but I'm starting to get new leafs here and there. The Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis', Bacopa caroliniana, Amazon Sword, & Amazon Red Sword are all growing well. I'm finally getting growth on my Phoenix Moss after it pretty much died during Ich treatment from the temps. The val's aren't really doing much of anything in this tank, I had heard they grew like weeds, but not seeing that at all.... 

I've added two Hydor Koralia evolution 1150 with a controller that cycles the pumps for 5 minutes at a time to stir things up in the tank to try and help keep debris a float and sucked into the sump. Which I'm going to redo the big SS mesh protection around the overflow to try and reduce the size of it to cover just the teeth to the overflow and make it easier to remove when I want to stir stuff up.

My QT setup is working and I have the tanks full testing the stand and things are looking good. However it's going to look like they will get Ich temperature treatment by default being in the garage here in Arizona where we've got 100°F+ temps here and there already. I'm going to have to figure out a cooling fan setup to keep the temps in the low 80's or so. Soon I'll get the fish again that I had lost due to ICH, but treat them all right off the back and get them healthy!

QT Rack (4 20g's and 1 100g tank, which has a bunch of manzanita wood soaking that I just put in on Friday and has the water funky at the moment)









FTS Day #99 (6/7/2017):









Left Side Day #99 (6/7/2017):









Right Side Day #99 (6/7/2017):









Favorite view, from right to left Day #99 (6/27/2017)









Some Blyxa Japonica









Anubis has taken a hit, but hopefully it will swing back into life!









Some sort of algae that I've direct dosed with H202 and Metricide to kill it, notice it's now red?! LOL Die algae Die! Any idea what this crap is?









This stuff sure has grown large. Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'









Bacopa caroliniana









Two swords getting big, the red one not near as large.









Phoenix moss making it's comeback, I'll have to help it spread back out when there is enough.









What I thought was chain swords, it sounds like are actually Echinodorus vesuvius.









Can we say snails?! I need to figure out if I want to add my 4 dwarf pea puffers to this tank, or get some kind of small loach that munches on snails to make them hide again.


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## Greggz

Looking good! Nice driftwood and presentation.

And you are right, a few loaches will take of those snails in no time. Funny thing is, in my tank I never see a snail, but they are still in the filters every time I clean them.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Looking good! Nice driftwood and presentation.
> 
> And you are right, a few loaches will take of those snails in no time. Funny thing in is, in my tank I never see a snail, but they are still in the filters every time I clean them.


Thank you sir! I have the same snail's in my small puffer tank and don't see them during the day, but at night the cover everything when the lights go out. LOL I feel like I'm gonna have to drop whatever fish into my sump to eat from there first as the open chamber is full too. 

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## forrestcook

Where did you find your manzanita? Any particular part of town?


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Where did you find your manzanita? Any particular part of town?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


On the back side of Mt Lemmon is where I collected the wood during some 4x4ing. Done lots of looking over the years and always had my eye out for the "goods". 

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## chayos00

Water change day today! I do weekly water changes where I just drain out the sump and then fill that back up. Being in Arizona where the water is already 80-90°F I have to dump my fridges auto ice maker bucket into the tank as I'm filling it up to to help cool the tank down before running it back up into the DT. When I fill the tank after the bucket of ice is dumped in the tank is 87°F and after mixing the sump and DT after a bit the water temp drops down to about 79-80°F. I then open everything up on the stand and the canopy and have my ceiling fan run on max for a bit to try and cool the tank back down to 77°F.

Sump area, using the sump pump to drain the tank, only takes like 1-2 minutes at most. (yeah it's messy, haven't gotten a good organization going yet)









Dumping the water out the front door.









Once filled and running through only the sump to repolish the water after mixing things up from the water change, I've been putting in frozen water bottles to also try and help cool the tank back down.


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## chayos00

So a little rant going to happen here. I've been talking to a local fish store about getting the 70 or so fish I had lost from what I started with. Well they were supposed to get a delivery today, however only 12 rummynose had shipped from what they expected. Either way as it's a drive across town I was going to get them anyways as they would give me a 25% discount if they didn't take them out of the bag. So the gal calls and says they put them in their tank and wants me to wait 48hrs before getting them vs today in the bag. Kind of annoyed they did that after what they told me they would do. But now as I type this I wonder if they did that as the fish might be questionable.... Or if it's due to the AZ heat like she claimed. 

Rant over. 

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## chayos00

Small update. I finally put door hardware on my stand and the little clear plastic bump stops on the doors too. Had the parts on hand for about 2 months, but finally knocked them out while on a work team meet conference call. LOL

Lower Doors


Upper Doors


Whole setup.


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## chayos00

Picked up some fish locally and will order the rest from Liveaquaria.com tomorrow to restock everything. Starting my QT of these guys and some meds to make sure they stay healthy!









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## forrestcook

Writing on the tank is a smart idea... I'm stealing it for my QT. I see it at all the LFS but it never translated to the home aquarium in my mind. 


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Writing on the tank is a smart idea... I'm stealing it for my QT. I see it at all the LFS but it never translated to the home aquarium in my mind.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah I initially didn't think of it till I saw my permanent marker and figured why not. Alcohol cleans it off when done. Plus I won't need an Excel spreadsheet to track it this way LOL. 

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## chayos00

On 6/20 I got my LiveAquaria order delivered. I was a bit worried as outside temps were in the 110°F + temps. They didn't ship with any cold packs to my disappointment​. I had 4 DOA skunk Cory cats, but the water they were in smelt rancid, and since the rest have died off with the last ones dead today. I have about $200 in dead loss so far. Good thing for a QT rack for sure. Doing 50% water changes every other day. Or do 2 tanks each day for WC. Then dosing general cure and seachem paraguard for meds to try and keep the fish healthy. Also have the water heaters set to about 82°F for Ich, that is if they had any.
















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## forrestcook

chayos00 said:


> On 6/20 I got my LiveAquaria order delivered. I was a bit worried as outside temps were in the 110°F + temps. They didn't ship with any cold packs to my disappointment​. I had 4 DOA skunk Cory cats, but the water they were in smelt rancid, and since the rest have died off with the last ones dead today. I have about $200 in dead loss so far. Good thing for a QT rack for sure. Doing 50% water changes every other day. Or do 2 tanks each day for WC. Then dosing general cure and seachem paraguard for meds to try and keep the fish healthy. Also have the water heaters set to about 82°F for Ich, that is if they had any.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Does liveaquaria have any sort of guarantee? Pretty irresponsible to ship without the appropriate temp regulation. 


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Does liveaquaria have any sort of guarantee? Pretty irresponsible to ship without the appropriate temp regulation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah they do, there's a 14 day live guarantee for all fish sold. So far I'll be getting $200 or so back from dead loss. 

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## chayos00

So I took some of my Salvinia floating plants and put the extra growth in my QT tanks to help consume some nutrients from the water plus give the fish something to hide in. So I was thinking about it and I'm going to use those tanks as possible plant grow out tanks. I picked up some LED shop lights from Costco and mounted two of them above the 4 20g tanks. 











One thing I've found interesting is that the day after a water change, which is every other day, the tank sometimes get cloudy and then gets clearer on the water change day and it goes back and forth like that. 

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## johnson18

forrestcook said:


> Writing on the tank is a smart idea... I'm stealing it for my QT. I see it at all the LFS but it never translated to the home aquarium in my mind.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




I do this on tanks for qt, as well as on some of my plant grow out tanks. It is sometimes easier to write the order of potted plants on the glass than dig out my plant labels, especially if they're only staying in a tank temporarily. I use dry erase markers rather than permanent though. You can just wipe it off so there is no use of alcohol. 


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## chayos00

johnson18 said:


> I do this on tanks for qt, as well as on some of my plant grow out tanks. It is sometimes easier to write the order of potted plants on the glass than dig out my plant labels, especially if they're only staying in a tank temporarily. I use dry erase markers rather than permanent though. You can just wipe it off so there is no use of alcohol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm kinda messy when it comes to doing water changes and what not so dry erase would get washed off. So the permanent marker works the best for me. LOL

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## chayos00

So I've come to a conclusion.... Cardinals and Emperor Tetra's don't do well with Seachem Paraguard.... I was down to two or three Cardinals and like 8 or 9 Emperors having 22 of each to start with, I did a 1hr dip in Paraguard as per the directions. When it was about 57 minutes I went to check on them and several were dead and most just hovering at the bottom of the container. There are only two Emperor Tetras alive as I'm updating this post.

I'm also so over ordering from LiveAquaria.com as I just can't keep their fish alive either. Now how much is the fault of Paraguard, not sure, but both times Ich was seen on my fish from them. 

The water in the QT setup has been 82-86°F between then four tanks and dosing meds that should kill Ich, yet it still lives on in that tank.... Yet somehow my Amano shrimp aren't taking a hit from the meds. 

I was thinking if some of the Cardinals lived, I would try breeding them and the emperors too, but that's a long shot now that they are dead. I even made some yarn spawning mops last night in hopes of trying to breed the remaining fish to bring the population back up to where I wanted them after the QT was over.


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## chayos00

So I'm at a point I'm not sure how to move forward, my val's haven't grown in like I wanted and I'm needing to make the scape on this tank pop for me. 

I want the plant mass mostly on the far left side of the tank. I'm thinking of moving the Blyxa Japonica to the area where the Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis' is currently at, not sure what to do with the AR. I want my Val's to be the plant all along the left and back side, but the Val's aren't taking over like the Bacopa caroliniana has been. I want to move the Amazon Sword that's in the front either to the far left side, or to the back right like where the Echinodorus vesuvius is located. Also not sure what to do with the Bacopa either... What are your guys thoughts?

FTS Day #127 (7/5/2017):


Left Side Day #127 (7/5/2017):


Right Side Day #127 (7/5/2017): (yup, you do see a fork that was holding down the zucchini)


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## forrestcook

I actually like the island of plants you've got going. I've been trying to figure out what I want to do with my own scape and yours is very pretty. Obviously it needs to work for you, but I think your tank is great as is personally. 


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> I actually like the island of plants you've got going. I've been trying to figure out what I want to do with my own scape and yours is very pretty. Obviously it needs to work for you, but I think your tank is great as is personally.


Thank you! I appreciate it! Since the tank is at the left side of my work desk in my den, I wanted more of an open area on the right side so I can see inside the tank better.


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## Ben Belton

Looks really good. You don't have many species of plants which works great in this scape for me. It doesn't look too overstuffed.


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## chayos00

Alright so I went forward with my thoughts on how I wanted some things changed in the tank. Disappointed that the 20 or so Val stem's I had are like only 6 of them. :-( I have them isolated on one side of my tank now. SO HOPEFULLY they grow and fill in!! I really wasn't sure what to do with the AR, so I just threw them in somewhere that kinda made sense for the plant height. 

Got one before pictures and three after shots. The extra plants I took out are floating in my sump right now. One bonus to having a sump while playing with the aquascape! 

Before


After

I like how there's more open swimming space in the middle to right side again. Sitting from my desk I can see more activity now. 
FTS Day # 129 (7/7/2017)


Left Side Day # 129 (7/7/2017)


Right Side Day # 129 (7/7/2017)


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## chayos00

Alright so I got a touch impatient and took the fish out of QT two days before my plan of 1 month. I'll have to count the fish and see what survived QT. I'm happy with seeing a bit more stock living in the tank. I love seeing my loaches and puffers hunting for snail's! 

Edit: Fish from QT:
Rummynose Tetra - 6
Zebra Loach- 6
Indian Dwarf Puffer - 4
Amano Shrimp - 14
Black Neon Tetra - 2
Glassblood fin tetra - 3
Oto's - 6
Orange Von Rio's - 4
Juli Cory - 4









Also I love sitting here feeding my son his bottle. Don't know why I didn't start doing this before today. LOL










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## Nlewis

Just be patient with the Val's and one day they'll just explode. I've had this happen to me multiple times. They'd send out runners like crazy but would only grow to about 6 inches. Then one day they were four feet long.


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## The Dude1

I thought the "before" looked awesome and I was worried that the "after" probably couldn't stack up, but I like it even better. Great job. Tank really looks awesome. I would love to have a tank that looked like that, but my skills aren't there yet. One day. I'm confused as to what you have in the tank and what was in QT.


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## chayos00

Nlewis said:


> Just be patient with the Val's and one day they'll just explode. I've had this happen to me multiple times. They'd send out runners like crazy but would only grow to about 6 inches. Then one day they were four feet long.


I sure do hope they do! LOL It's just frustrating when you don't see as many plants as you put in and not much growth on them. Since they are alive and not dead, I can't wait for their growth to finally take off!



The Dude1 said:


> I thought the "before" looked awesome and I was worried that the "after" probably couldn't stack up, but I like it even better. Great job. Tank really looks awesome. I would love to have a tank that looked like that, but my skills aren't there yet. One day. I'm confused as to what you have in the tank and what was in QT.


Thank you for the kind words! I'm glad you like the after as well as the before!

Here's what was left after my QT. Most of them are the same fish that I had in the tank, I just lost a bunch from the initial fill and was wanting to restock to the levels I was looking to have from the start. 
Rummynose Tetra - 6
Zebra Loach- 6
Indian Dwarf Puffer - 4
Amano Shrimp - 14
Black Neon Tetra - 2
Glassblood fin tetra - 3
Oto's - 6
Orange Von Rio's - 4
Juli Cory - 4


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> I sure do hope they do! LOL It's just frustrating when you don't see as many plants as you put in and not much growth on them. Since they are alive and not dead, I can't wait for their growth to finally take off!
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the kind words! I'm glad you like the after as well as the before!
> 
> Here's what was left after my QT. Most of them are the same fish that I had in the tank, I just lost a bunch from the initial fill and was wanting to restock to the levels I was looking to have from the start.
> Rummynose Tetra - 6
> Zebra Loach- 6
> Indian Dwarf Puffer - 4
> Amano Shrimp - 14
> Black Neon Tetra - 2
> Glassblood fin tetra - 3
> Oto's - 6
> Orange Von Rio's - 4
> Juli Cory - 4


Very cool stock! Several of my favorites. The Bloodfins are so undervalued. They are really beautiful and school / shoal better than anything ive had thus far. Those dwarf puffers are really cool too! I was sold a figure 8 puffer as a "community" puffer. Ive seen him may 5 times in a tiny 11.4 that he shares with a dwarf gourami. The only reason I knew he was alive was the chunks missing from the Gourami's tail. He also like shrimp so no shrimp in the tank and he devoured the pretty stout stock of snails really quickly. 
I think large groups of those would look really cool in a big tank like that. No problems with the Zebra loaches eating plants? Ive wanted them for a while, but was told that they can be bad for a planted tank. 
If I go with the community that I want for my 150 I will have some kind of small loach group in there. I worry if they would be problematic with breeding Apisto's or Emperor tetras?


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Very cool stock! Several of my favorites. The Bloodfins are so undervalued. They are really beautiful and school / shoal better than anything ive had thus far. Those dwarf puffers are really cool too! I was sold a figure 8 puffer as a "community" puffer. Ive seen him may 5 times in a tiny 11.4 that he shares with a dwarf gourami. The only reason I knew he was alive was the chunks missing from the Gourami's tail. He also like shrimp so no shrimp in the tank and he devoured the pretty stout stock of snails really quickly.
> I think large groups of those would look really cool in a big tank like that. No problems with the Zebra loaches eating plants? Ive wanted them for a while, but was told that they can be bad for a planted tank.
> If I go with the community that I want for my 150 I will have some kind of small loach group in there. I worry if they would be problematic with breeding Apisto's or Emperor tetras?


Yeah the bloodfins do school pretty good along with the Rummynose. 

I have a small 10g with 4 dwarf puffers and love them in that tank! I've been debating if I want to put them in the 125g too, but I think the current puffers need to get bigger first so they don't get bullied right off the bat by the "large" adults I have. 

The Zebra's were just dumped in, so time will tell. I didn't see reports myself when looking about them being plant bullies, but hopefully they don't mess with mine.


----------



## forrestcook

You're dosing a DIY form of excel, right? Where did you learn the mixture and where did you buy your dry ingredients? My big tank is chewing through the seachem bottle I bought.


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## The Dude1

forrestcook said:


> You're dosing a DIY form of excel, right? Where did you learn the mixture and where did you buy your dry ingredients? My big tank is chewing through the seachem bottle I bought.


It's just metricide 14. You can buy it by the gallon on Amazon or EBay. Regular Excel is 1.6% gluteraldehyde. Metricide 14 is 2.6% gluteraldehyde. I don't dilute it, but consider that it is much stronger than Excel.

Bump:


chayos00 said:


> Yeah the bloodfins do school pretty good along with the Rummynose.
> 
> I have a small 10g with 4 dwarf puffers and love them in that tank! I've been debating if I want to put them in the 125g too, but I think the current puffers need to get bigger first so they don't get bullied right off the bat by the "large" adults I have.
> 
> The Zebra's were just dumped in, so time will tell. I didn't see reports myself when looking about them being plant bullies, but hopefully they don't mess with mine.


Do those Zebra loaches hang out together?? Could you share some pics? Any updates on their potential plant eating tendencies? I would really like to get a good group of zebra or Botia loaches.. I'm thinking about an 8 foot planted community...


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> You're dosing a DIY form of excel, right? Where did you learn the mixture and where did you buy your dry ingredients? My big tank is chewing through the seachem bottle I bought.


So I'm using Metricide 14 which you do at about half of what excel calls for. I dose 30ml assuming I'm at about 160g of total water volume. Metrex Metricide Gallon 14 Day - Model 182337 - Each https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015TDIOU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_HWKHzbF6S5TMA

For my dry ferts I was using dosing PPS pro on a small 6g fluval edge tank and I'm currently dosing daily EI at 50% of full strength. I got my start from GreenLeafAquariums. http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html Or what you could do is try to source the specific chemicals online on say Amazon or where they are sold. 

However I can share the link I use to determine dosing mix once I get to a PC. Also I got some extra dosing containers. They indicate 5, 15, & 30 ml on the 500 & 1000ml bottles. I'll have to see what I paid for them to give you a price if you want. 

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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> It's just metricide 14. You can buy it by the gallon on Amazon or EBay. Regular Excel is 1.6% gluteraldehyde. Metricide 14 is 2.6% gluteraldehyde. I don't dilute it, but consider that it is much stronger than Excel.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> Do those Zebra loaches hang out together?? Could you share some pics? Any updates on their potential plant eating tendencies? I would really like to get a good group of zebra or Botia loaches.. I'm thinking about an 8 foot planted community...


For the zebras I just looked and they seem to be hiding at the moment, but they do come out for dinner when I feed around 8pm. I'll try to get some pictures then. However since my wife works tonight it's just me and the littles so it may be tricky. LOL

Oh as far as the plants, there have been a few uprooted, but like once a week. Not sure if it's them or from my rearrangement. 

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## chayos00

I couldn't get great pictures but here are a few of the better ones that I got. I just lost one of the zebra loaches and one of the glowlight tetra's. The zebra loach was discolored, kinda yellow ish and then found it dead today. For the glowlights, I've had a fat one for about two months now, but the body was starting to turn whitish in the belly, I just culled the second one that was showing the same symptoms. At the bottom is a picture of what the glowlight looked like. Not sure what the deal was. 






























Here's the glowlight with the health issues that I culled, the one that looked just like it died over the weekend, but I found a split on the belly that looked like it ruptured. 

IMG_9930 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_9933 by chayos00, on Flickr

It wasn't till I looked at the pics on the PC that I noticed the scales "pineconed" like this. Which makes me think dropsy, or something of the sorts based on a quick google search. 
IMG_9936 by chayos00, on Flickr


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## chayos00

So last week I did a water change and drained the display tank and sprayed Metricide 14 (think concentrated Excel) on all the plants and wood to kill off this algae I have getting all over. It killed the algae well, but it also caused some plants to melt off, well not some but most.... eekkkkk..... So basically I hacked off all the melted stuff and moved my sword to the right side of the tank. 

Also the other week I picked up a few more plants during a local meeting. Got some more needle leaf java fern and some Bucephalandra var. ‘Sekadau’. Can anyone assist with IDing the hairy algae that I've got going on??

I've got some fun money that's coming in so I'm debating about getting and building a regulator for CO2. That would be fun to play with! 

FTS 08/25/2017
IMG_10001 by chayos00, on Flickr

Left Side 08/25/2017
IMG_10004 by chayos00, on Flickr

Right Side 08/25/2017
IMG_10007 by chayos00, on Flickr

Puffer on the hunt! But they have made all the snails hide in the day time. Haven't seen any more pond snails around though.
IMG_10010 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_10014 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_10016 by chayos00, on Flickr

Here's the Buce that I got, think I paid $5 for them. Depends how they grow out may play into where I'm going to put it in the long run.
IMG_10017 by chayos00, on Flickr

Can anyone ID what this hairy algae is??
IMG_10025 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_10028 by chayos00, on Flickr


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## forrestcook

Looks like black brush to me. What you could try, that I've had success with in the past, is to turn off all your pumps and get some hydrogen peroxide in a medication syringe. Gently spray some directly into the algae and watch it start to bubble. Let it sit for a while and turn your pumps back on. The h2o2 oxidizes down to h2o and o, so nothing toxic for the tank. The process will kill the bacteria in your filter though, so pumps off for a while and let it bubble. 


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## johnson18

Yup, that definitely looks like BBA. Usually due too not enough/inconsistent CO2 levels. It can be a huge pain in the ass. 


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## chayos00

Forrest - I have tried H2O2 in the past and took several applications to do anything. Which is why I did the Met spray all over that hurt the plants. But doing H2O2 doing it's nice being able to keep the sump isolated from the DT. 

Johnson - what's funny is I don't even have CO2 on my tank. Only the liquid carbon dosing. 

I did tweak my LED fixture to extend the ramp up/down times to 240 minutes vs the current time of 120 min so I only have a short time of full light intensity. 

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## johnson18

chayos00 said:


> Forrest - I have tried H2O2 in the past and took several applications to do anything. Which is why I did the Met spray all over that hurt the plants. But doing H2O2 doing it's nice being able to keep the sump isolated from the DT.
> 
> Johnson - what's funny is I don't even have CO2 on my tank. Only the liquid carbon dosing.
> 
> I did tweak my LED fixture to extend the ramp up/down times to 240 minutes vs the current time of 120 min so I only have a short time of full light intensity.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




CO2 is in your tank no matter if you inject it or not. Most of my struggles with BBA have been in non-CO2 injected tanks where I have been running a bit more light than was probably safe, Excel/glut dosing or not. Which is why CO2 inconsistency often leads to BBA in many low tech tanks.


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## chayos00

johnson18 said:


> CO2 is in your tank no matter if you inject it or not. Most of my struggles with BBA have been in non-CO2 injected tanks where I have been running a bit more light than was probably safe, Excel/glut dosing or not. Which is why CO2 inconsistency often leads to BBA in many low tech tanks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I understand that's it's present, I was just meaning I wasn't injecting any. It's kind of a pain... dose EI and do weekly water changes to reset fert levels and then cause CO2 levels to flux by doing so. LOL

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## johnson18

I'd keep up with the spot dosing of excel & see how it responds after a few weeks of the new light schedule. 

BBA was one of the main reasons I finally went with CO2 on my 55. Life has been so much easier since. I'm not even running enough that I have to dose fertz in my tank.


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## chayos00

johnson18 said:


> I'd keep up with the spot dosing of excel & see how it responds after a few weeks of the new light schedule.
> 
> BBA was one of the main reasons I finally went with CO2 on my 55. Life has been so much easier since. I'm not even running enough that I have to dose fertz in my tank.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I'm gonna start spot dosing again to try and get rid of that junk again. Such a pain but a needed chore! For the CO2 I wouldn't go high on the output as well, just enough to boost the plants growth/health. Plus refilling CO2 is a trip to the other side of town too, which is a pain here without a good freeway system. 

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## chayos00

Let's see how going back to H2O2 dosing goes. Look at them bubble's!









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## The Dude1

How long is your photoperiod? I started 2 75 gallons at almost the same time. One with CO2 the other with just metricide... I can't even begin to explain how much more enjoyable and manageable the tank WITH C02 is... even to motivate me to spend $450 on a custom regulator that will run both tanks off the same 20# CO2 tank... the great thing about big tanks is that you don't have to struggle as much to get the needle valve just right. I'm doing C02 on 3 of my 4 tanks now and if it weren't for the 4th having expensive shrimp I would have C02 on that tank as well.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> How long is your photoperiod? I started 2 75 gallons at almost the same time. One with CO2 the other with just metricide... I can't even begin to explain how much more enjoyable and manageable the tank WITH C02 is... even to motivate me to spend $450 on a custom regulator that will run both tanks off the same 20# CO2 tank... the great thing about big tanks is that you don't have to struggle as much to get the needle valve just right. I'm doing C02 on 3 of my 4 tanks now and if it weren't for the 4th having expensive shrimp I would have C02 on that tank as well.


My lights are on too long I know for sure. However the on time is from 8:30am-9pm (12.5hrs). However I was running a 2hr ramp up/down time so it was maxed for 8.5hrs. I adjusted it to a 4hr ramp up/down time now for a maxed out period of 4.5hrs. I'm curious to see if that fixes things before cutting the actual lights on time. But I can always adjust the power down too. 

I need to borrow a local guys PAR meter to really see what this fixture is putting out. I'm running around 80-90 watts of power for what looks like not too much, but not too little. 

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## chayos00

Love seeing the red algae! LOL Die algae die!
















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## forrestcook

hopefully your critters start munching on it!


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> hopefully your critters start munching on it!


Wish they would before having to resort to these methods. LOL Looks like one SAE (Siamese Algae Eaters) are the only ones to eat it. But before having to resort to a fish that can get up to 6" and possibly be a booger I'll try other methods first. 

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## Chizpa305

Do Otocinculus eat these?


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## The Dude1

Chizpa305 said:


> Do Otocinculus eat these?


The only things I've ever seen eat that stuff is shrimp. Oto's seem to be hit or miss for me. They seem to really prefer the stuff on the glass and light algae on leaves. I've never seen them really eat any type of algae mass. It's finally getting under control in my tanks now that I cranked the C02 up, but for a while I had my arms in the tank daily manually removing or blasting with hydrogen peroxide. Some of the leaves like the bolbitus never recovered.


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## forrestcook

From personal experience, a lot more things eat dead bba than eat live bba. I remember amanos specifically eating the dead stuff. I think the living stuff is just too tough, it's very strong stuff if you've tried ripping it off. 


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## chayos00

Yeah I've got lots of amano's and oto's in the tank and they don't appear to touch this stuff. However I do see some amano's in the area of the rocks with the now red (dead) BBA. I think I've hit the whole tank over two days with glut which I diluted in half with tank water to apply over a larger area and then 200ml of H2O2 on each day also. I did let the tank run separate of the sump for about an hour to do it's thing with about 30 minutes of it with no pumps on and then the rest with the wave makers on to mix things up.


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## chayos00

I've decided I'm going to change my game plan on ferts on this tank. I did a massive water change today and did a single dose on my fertz (half EI) and I'm going to not dose glut or fertz daily. I'm going to stretch out doing water changes too to see if I can stop the flux of CO2 till I get pressurized and see if that helps remove the BBA. Time will tell what's gonna happen.

As far as the CO2, I might be getting an old unused CO2 regulator from a friend who does welding. I think it's a single stage, but we'll see how it works if I do get that and one day find a better dual stage out there.


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## ScubaSteve

All that red algae reminds me of the recent "War of the Worlds" movie...when the tripods were spraying all the red stuff everywhere...kinda creepy. lol. Good luck getting the algae to go away...the scape looks great!


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## chayos00

ScubaSteve said:


> All that red algae reminds me of the recent "War of the Worlds" movie...when the tripods were spraying all the red stuff everywhere...kinda creepy. lol. Good luck getting the algae to go away...the scape looks great!


LOL that is too funny! At least it's not blood all over in my tank. 

As we left for the weekend and return next Wednesday I cut my lights to shut off a few hours early in hopes that it does help some too. 

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## chayos00

*09/07/2017 Update*

So got back from my time away for the long weekend and things are looking better. 

1: Reduced lighting time from shutting off at 9pm down to 6pm, but I just upped it to 7pm now. So 9.5hrs of light with 4 up and 4 down ramp and only 1.5 of full intensity. But adjusted to 10.5 with only 2.5hrs of full intensity.
2: No Fert dosing.

Remember the Before
IMG_10001 by chayos00, on Flickr

Now after!
IMG_0824 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_0825 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_0826 by chayos00, on Flickr

Got a good shot of my loach.
IMG_0827 by chayos00, on Flickr

Notice the lack of algae!!
IMG_0828 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_0829 by chayos00, on Flickr

Remember the Before
IMG_10028 by chayos00, on Flickr

Now After
IMG_0830 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_0831 by chayos00, on Flickr


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## forrestcook

Looking great! Must be a big relief to see that. You coming this Sunday?


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Looking great! Must be a big relief to see that. You coming this Sunday?


Thanks, I was wondering what it would look like for sure and hoped it was for the better. LOL. I'm fighting my urge to do a water change on the tank too. Weird how that works out. 

This Sunday is up in the air. My wife works the night before so it all depends on how she feels as she will be lacking sleep and dealing with 2 little ones if I ditch her.

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## chayos00

Alright, so I finally got the PAR meter to test my setup with. I borrowed a meter from a local friend and knew I had to tune my light down some as I keep getting the algae back. But I was pulling around 80-90w before tweaking my setup and now down to about 50w of power use. Remember this thing will max out around 330-350w of power. 

The fixture is 8.5" above water level while reading all data and the sump and all pumps were turned off. 

PAR Meter borrowed
PAR Meter by chayos00, on Flickr

Actual PAR Data:

My Channel 10 & 13 aren't maxing out their current. I need to check them out, I think the adjuster pot might have a cold solder joint, or loose.

PAR Data by chayos00, on Flickr


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## chayos00

Turns out fixing the channel 10 and 13 light output was pretty easy. I think it was a cold solder joint, so I found my iron tip with the smallest point and heated the pot and the resistor that controls the current in the circuit. That resistor is so damned tiny, I almost lost one that came off the PCB as I was trying to reflow the solder. But the circle in yellow are the items I reflowed and now the lights are back to the max.


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## The Dude1

I love the scale you've created. It's really incredible. I think once the plants fill in a little more it's really going to look great.
If this is the only tank you're going to run C02 on I think the Aquatek regulator would be fine. The needle valve is touchy, but for a tank that size you'll be pumping alot of C02. I had it on my 75 for a while and it was fine. I went with a custom regulator so I could run both 75's off of it and use the cheap one on my 150. I paid about $105 shipped. I am going to leave some wiggle room on the big tank just in case.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I love the scale you've created. It's really incredible. I think once the plants fill in a little more it's really going to look great.
> If this is the only tank you're going to run C02 on I think the Aquatek regulator would be fine. The needle valve is touchy, but for a tank that size you'll be pumping alot of C02. I had it on my 75 for a while and it was fine. I went with a custom regulator so I could run both 75's off of it and use the cheap one on my 150. I paid about $105 shipped. I am going to leave some wiggle room on the big tank just in case.


Thank you! Yeah I'm not really digging how slowly it's taking to fill in, but it's all about that plant/algae growth battle. Yeah the CO2 would be a good addition, but I would rather a dual stage. Just haven't had the time to search eBay for a good regulator to start piecing together a setup. Just lots going on in the work life balance battle oh yeah.... kids too.... LOL

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Thank you! Yeah I'm not really digging how slowly it's taking to fill in, but it's all about that plant/algae growth battle. Yeah the CO2 would be a good addition, but I would rather a dual stage. Just haven't had the time to search eBay for a good regulator to start piecing together a setup. Just lots going on in the work life balance battle oh yeah.... kids too.... LOL
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Everyone keeps saying the dual stage thing about the Aquatek. It is dual stage, but the pressure is preset at 40 or 50... but it is dual stage. I'm certainly not trying to talk anyone into a cheap regulator. Exactly the opposite. I will say with total confidence that if I had kept my tanks low tech I probably would have lost interest by now. The only tank I have that does not run C02 is my shrimp tank and it gets 5-6 hours of light daily. 

How many zebra loaches do you have? How are they with the Panda Corys and how many Pandas do you have? Have you seen any breeding?


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## vvDO

The Dude1 said:


> Everyone keeps saying the dual stage thing about the Aquatek. It is dual stage, but the pressure is preset at 40 or 50... but it is dual stage. I'm certainly not trying to talk anyone into a cheap regulator. Exactly the opposite. I will say with total confidence that if I had kept my tanks low tech I probably would have lost interest by now. The only tank I have that does not run C02 is my shrimp tank and it gets 5-6 hours of light daily.
> 
> 
> 
> How many zebra loaches do you have? How are they with the Panda Corys and how many Pandas do you have? Have you seen any breeding?




Curious... which aquatek regulator do you have? Most I've seen have 1 chamber to regulate gas pressure and description usually states dual gauge, but that's not the same as 2 stage.


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## chayos00

vvDO said:


> Curious... which aquatek regulator do you have? Most I've seen have 1 chamber to regulate gas pressure and description usually states dual gauge, but that's not the same as 2 stage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is same as I've seen. I've tried to find that info too. 

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## The Dude1

Basic AQUATEK CO2 Regulator Solenoid Single Outlet |
There is a newer one for a little more with an adjustable working pressure. Mine is set at 40 or 50 psi.

Bump:


chayos00 said:


> This is same as I've seen. I've tried to find that info too.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Like I said my Aquatek isn't adjustable for output pressure, but it is further reduced from tank pressure. 2 gauges = 2 stages. One is tank pressure one is output pressure.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Basic AQUATEK CO2 Regulator Solenoid Single Outlet |
> There is a newer one for a little more with an adjustable working pressure. Mine is set at 40 or 50 psi.
> 
> Bump:
> Like I said my Aquatek isn't adjustable for output pressure, but it is further reduced from tank pressure. 2 gauges = 2 stages. One is tank pressure one is output pressure.


I hate saying this, but 2 gauges does not indicate what the stages are. It only gives you tank and then regulated pressure. Dual stage is more of a second thicker depth to the regulator. However if this makes no sense, I've been having a really big margarita for lunch. LOL

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> I hate saying this, but 2 gauges does not indicate what the stages are. It only gives you tank and then regulated pressure. Dual stage is more of a second thicker depth to the regulator. However if this makes no sense, I've been having a really big margarita for lunch. LOL
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Maybe it's terminology that I'm not getting. What I do know is the Aquatek will not allow end of tank dumps and aside from the adjustable output pressure it does the exact same thing as my $500 custom built regulator. Like I said I'm not trying to talk anyone into buying cheap, but if you are using a reactor or anything that does not require a specific output pressure it does the exact same thing... aside from the needle valve not being as precise.

Bump:


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Everyone keeps saying the dual stage thing about the Aquatek. It is dual stage, but the pressure is preset at 40 or 50... but it is dual stage. I'm certainly not trying to talk anyone into a cheap regulator. Exactly the opposite. I will say with total confidence that if I had kept my tanks low tech I probably would have lost interest by now. The only tank I have that does not run C02 is my shrimp tank and it gets 5-6 hours of light daily.
> 
> How many zebra loaches do you have? How are they with the Panda Corys and how many Pandas do you have? Have you seen any breeding?


Forgot to respond about the fish. LOL Sorry! I started with 4 or 6 after QT, but I was trying to count all fish the other day and I counted either 2 or 3 that I could see. They seem to mostly hide and occasionally come out during feeding time. Don't think they mess with cories at all. I was only about to find 3 pandas the other day too. No breeding seen by any fish in the tank either. For the cories I was just watching a video on YouTube from Aquarium Coop about Cory breeding but from the sounds of it they need much softer lower pH water for them to breed. Sounds like being sub 6.5ph they might, but I'm probably high 7's from our current tap water. I've debated about doing an RO setup to bring down the TDS and pH of the tank. I'm sure all fish involved would like that. LOL 

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## chayos00

Finally passed the one month mark for my 5 angels that I got at my local meeting, they were moved into the tank the other day and they are still just hanging out by the Vals. They got super picky on one another in the QT setup, so I was nervous about adding the to this setup and wondered they would go after the fish in there. However all seems okay at this point. But if they do attack my other fish, they will quickly make their way into the sump for time out.









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## The Dude1

I had some Corys breed years ago, but I think it was in a C02 injected tank. I also think it was a constant on paintball system so I don't know if that's an issue too. I remember having to take the eggs out of the tank and put them in a shrimp tank. I would LOVE it if my Panda's bred, but I think that's just asking for disappointment so I'm going to add more. Do you plan on adding more to your groups? I am curious if the loaches would be out and about more if there were more.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I had some Corys breed years ago, but I think it was in a C02 injected tank. I also think it was a constant on paintball system so I don't know if that's an issue too. I remember having to take the eggs out of the tank and put them in a shrimp tank. I would LOVE it if my Panda's bred, but I think that's just asking for disappointment so I'm going to add more. Do you plan on adding more to your groups? I am curious if the loaches would be out and about more if there were more.


I'm kinda wondering about my corries, as I've noticed that both species of them have fin issues affecting their tales and some of their other fins. I'm wondering if someone keeps nipping at them, or if it's a water quality issue for them, like too high of a ph/tds kinda thing. Damned tap water in Tucson is liquid calcium. TDS of around 350-400 and pH like 7.6-8ish. 

I'm kinda wondering if I should go with looking into RO vs C02 for now..... A guy I know has an argon gas regulator he never used for his welding shop, but it is a single stage setup from what I can see in the pics. I wonder if I should just get that to start with along with a solenoid valve and a needle valve or find a used dual stage regulator for ideally sub $50 from [Ebay Link Removed] I tend to get myself into an analysis paralysis when it comes to analyzing things and making decisions about what to do.


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## The Dude1

I've been considering the same thing as I want to breed Apistos... but thats going to be a pain collecting and storing all that water. A decent RO unit would be what... $300? C02 would give you a lower pH and much better growth, but the TDS might be an issue. Even doing half RO would be ALOT of water to store.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I've been considering the same thing as I want to breed Apistos... but thats going to be a pain collecting and storing all that water. A decent RO unit would be what... $300? C02 would give you a lower pH and much better growth, but the TDS might be an issue. Even doing half RO would be ALOT of water to store.


So I've been really thinking about it. I think the RO system may be the way to go for now. As if I question my fish health I need to address that first. If it's related to our liquid calcium water then that would theoretically improve with using RO water, plus I can tap off that for my drinking water in my kitchen too!

As far as the storing the water. I would try and get like a 75+ GPD system to be able to generate the needed water that day for doing a water change. I normally only drain out my sump water and if I had a water drum that's what 45-55g depending upon what I find to use. So nothing more than a trash can or barrel for water storage I would think. 

May have to look into a way to pipe it from my garage to my 2nd garage on the other side of the house where my QT rack is setup too. Plus plumb RO water to my sink for drinking and for the fridge water.


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> So I've been really thinking about it. I think the RO system may be the way to go for now. As if I question my fish health I need to address that first. If it's related to our liquid calcium water then that would theoretically improve with using RO water, plus I can tap off that for my drinking water in my kitchen too!
> 
> As far as the storing the water. I would try and get like a 75+ GPD system to be able to generate the needed water that day for doing a water change. I normally only drain out my sump water and if I had a water drum that's what 45-55g depending upon what I find to use. So nothing more than a trash can or barrel for water storage I would think.
> 
> May have to look into a way to pipe it from my garage to my 2nd garage on the other side of the house where my QT rack is setup too. Plus plumb RO water to my sink for drinking and for the fridge water.


I've done all of the above, and it's all very doable. If you are going to the trouble, for sure bring it to the kitchen/fridge. I use two 55 gallon drums for storage, then it's pumped to the tank. 

It's some work to set up, but worth the effort in my opinion. Good luck with the project.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> I've done all of the above, and it's all very doable. If you are going to the trouble, for sure bring it to the kitchen/fridge. I use two 55 gallon drums for storage, then it's pumped to the tank.
> 
> It's some work to set up, but worth the effort in my opinion. Good luck with the project.


So from my research it seems like BRS and Spectrapure are the recommended systems for RO setups. I figured if I'm going to filter water in my house, I wanted to setup some big blue canisters for my house water, using some 4.5"x20" canisters, as I do notice my water heater getting gurgly over time and needing flushing, so figured the house could use some filtering down to say 1-5 microns. I'm sure that's overkill, but that's what I do LOL! 

However some setups seem to call for sub 200-300 TDS water to be used on the RO systems, which is kinda dumb.... Thought it was meant to reduce TDS as it is. LOL 

Since I want to add my house water as being filtered, I could probably either get away with a lower stage RO setup, or if I really could do it find a standalone membrane setup to produce the RO water and then take it to the aquarium or to the kitchen for drinking. Now if I could just find a nice SS RO membrane house and say a 75-200gpd setup, just so I can quickly make water as needed that day for a water change. Or if I could only make wasteless RO water, I'd so love to have that running through ALL of my house lines that my pre plumbed soft water lines go.


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## chayos00

*Day 254 (11/9/2017)*

Hey folks! Long time no update! So I've been playing around with introducing RO water to my tank over a few water changes and adding only 10g at a time to drop the hardness and TDS levels. Also doing water changes every 2 or 3 weeks and not seeing a decrease in BBA, however it's not as bad as it was. But I have also reduced my light levels too. I've returned to doing a 4hr sunrise/sunset times and that's brought down the BBA levels even more in the last 2 weeks. 

So for the new water specs as of yesterday'ss water change:
Ph - still high 7's, couldn't exactly tell from my titration test. I didn't test with my digital meter. 
238 TDS (Tap is 350-400 TDS)
50 ppm alkalinity - 2.79 dKH (Tap is around 100ppm or 5.58dKH)
100 ppm calcium - 5.6 dGH (Tap is 9.7-11.17dH - 175-200ppm)

The new bully angels are able to be seen in these pics too, I've noticed my amano shrimp are no longer out and about anymore, but I do see them hiding in some plants. 

FTS - Day 254 (11/9/2017)









Right Side - Day 254 (11/9/2017)









Left Side - Day 254 (11/9/2017)


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## Greggz

I haven't seen your full tank for awhile. It's looking great, and you've created a very nice interesting aquascape there. 

Very, very nice work! Really like it.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> I haven't seen your full tank for awhile. It's looking great, and you've created a very nice interesting aquascape there.
> 
> Very, very nice work! Really like it.


Thank you very much! Last update was 07/2017. However I'm still waiting for the damned val's to grow and fill in on the left side of the tank! Then as the java ferns are getting more and more I'll be moving them behind the anubis log and possibly replacing all the AR that's back there. 

Haven't had the time but still looking at a DIY RO setup.


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## The Dude1

I was concerned about having too many species of fish in my 75 gallon. You have more species than i.was considering and it looks great. Are you still at the same school sizes? Do you plan to increase them? I started with Cardinals, but they were too fragile and too expensive. I think I have 10 left, but I'm going for a large school of Neons now. Same thing with Rummynose and I'm thinking of going with Bloodfins now and leaving the 10 Rummynose as the total school size for them.
Tank is looking great. Without C02 growth is slow and the balance between plant growth and algae is too obscure.


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Thank you very much! Last update was 07/2017. However I'm still waiting for the damned val's to grow and fill in on the left side of the tank! Then as the java ferns are getting more and more I'll be moving them behind the anubis log and possibly replacing all the AR that's back there.
> 
> Haven't had the time but still looking at a DIY RO setup.


Here's the thing about planted tanks.......they are never "done". 

As soon as your Vals grow out and you move the ferns......you'll already be thinking about what's next. Mine is never the same almost from week to week. But that's what keeps it interesting.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I was concerned about having too many species of fish in my 75 gallon. You have more species than i.was considering and it looks great. Are you still at the same school sizes? Do you plan to increase them? I started with Cardinals, but they were too fragile and too expensive. I think I have 10 left, but I'm going for a large school of Neons now. Same thing with Rummynose and I'm thinking of going with Bloodfins now and leaving the 10 Rummynose as the total school size for them.
> Tank is looking great. Without C02 growth is slow and the balance between plant growth and algae is too obscure.


I've tried now 3 times to get Cardinals from LiveAquaria and this time I have 2 of 30 ordered that didn't die on me right away (I can only assume it's a supplier issue). I matched the water parameters as exactly as I could to transition them to my tank. Even then I did a super slow 1gph dripping to acclimate them. However within 2 weeks all but 2 died. I also got 15 Inpaichthys kerri from the same place and have three left, two males and one female. I'm going to see if I can get them to breed though, hopefully the Cardinals too, but not sure if I have a male and female or a same sex couple. LOL Not sure if I have the hardness low enough yet in the 20g QT tank, but the TDS comes in at 130-140 at the moment. Gonna have to get some peat moss to try and get them the tannins and the lower pH they will want for breeding. 

As for the different species of fish, I've had no problems with the tetras, but I do question the angels. They are kinda bullies and my buddy told me about the ones he's got that that have ate everything in his tanks whenever he leaves town for work. From guppies to tiger Barb's! Figured his Barb's were safe, but guess not. 

Also my stock list on the first post was just updated too, so that's my current count. I was wanting about 12 per species for most of them and some as a few more round 20. I do want to get them back up to those numbers, but will probably get my water to a lower hardness and ph before getting my stock back up. 

One word of note, I keep finding the bloodfins dried up from them jumping. Think it's been about one every two months or so. Just found one on my lid that I thought would keep them in when I did a water change yesterday. 

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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Here's the thing about planted tanks.......they are never "done".
> 
> As soon as your Vals grow out and you move the ferns......you'll already be thinking about what's next. Mine is never the same almost from week to week. But that's what keeps it interesting.


Hahahahaha Since my last tank update I haven't thought about it as life has been hectic with two little ones and work. But yeah it's an ever evolving ecosystem for sure. I'm actually thinking about how to redo my little 10g tank on my desktop to get rid of my crypts that are taking over that tank and doing something with some smaller plants that I'm totally blanking on the name of at the moment. 

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## chayos00

Using my digital pH meter that I just calibrated, I'm at a 7.5pH now. 

Also on her live YouTube chat Rachel O'Leary said she's going to be getting some cardinal tetras coming up that I may have to see if I can order some from her if I catch them when in stock, she did mention they would be tank raised too. If that doesn't work, I will give up on Cardinal's if I can breed them and will just go with a neon tetra (boo....)


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Using my digital pH meter that I just calibrated, I'm at a 7.5pH now.
> 
> Also on her live YouTube chat Rachel O'Leary said she's going to be getting some cardinal tetras coming up that I may have to see if I can order some from her if I catch them when in stock, she did mention they would be tank raised too. If that doesn't work, I will give up on Cardinal's if I can breed them and will just go with a neon tetra (boo....)


Man I know.... I dont even want to think about how many cardinals I went through to get to my 10.... a large part was a single bad batch that I did not QT. I also went with Neons... but I'm still going to try out the QT and I'm treating all new fish with Paragaurd... and then for then last week I have only been dosing like 1/3 of what I'm supposed to!! I had Bloodfins once but they were suicidal... jumped out despite glass lids and swam up the syphon for water changes... it seems like the "common" little aquarium fish literally require an expert skill set! I can tell you especially in bigger tanks like ours the money is better spent on a huge school of Neons. I can buy 3 Neons for the cost of 1 Cardinal and from my limited experience they are just as hardy if not more. A cardinal directly next to Neon really is much more impressive, but definately not 3 times as impressive. I'm at 10 cardinals, 10 Rummynose, 12 Neons (and another 11 in QT). As long as this group does OK and I feel like I've worked out the kinks I plan to add 2 more groups of 30 Neons. 
My long rambling does have a point. If you have the option I would try Neons first from a good source... no matter what I would QT them. My bad batch of cardinals (I bought 8) took out 16 Cardinals, 3 Rummynose, and 3 female Apisto Caucatoides.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Man I know.... I dont even want to think about how many cardinals I went through to get to my 10.... a large part was a single bad batch that I did not QT. I also went with Neons... but I'm still going to try out the QT and I'm treating all new fish with Paragaurd... and then for then last week I have only been dosing like 1/3 of what I'm supposed to!! I had Bloodfins once but they were suicidal... jumped out despite glass lids and swam up the syphon for water changes... it seems like the "common" little aquarium fish literally require an expert skill set! I can tell you especially in bigger tanks like ours the money is better spent on a huge school of Neons. I can buy 3 Neons for the cost of 1 Cardinal and from my limited experience they are just as hardy if not more. A cardinal directly next to Neon really is much more impressive, but definately not 3 times as impressive. I'm at 10 cardinals, 10 Rummynose, 12 Neons (and another 11 in QT). As long as this group does OK and I feel like I've worked out the kinks I plan to add 2 more groups of 30 Neons.
> My long rambling does have a point. If you have the option I would try Neons first from a good source... no matter what I would QT them. My bad batch of cardinals (I bought 8) took out 16 Cardinals, 3 Rummynose, and 3 female Apisto Caucatoides.


So I'm now on my third shipment of Cardinals, two with 20 and now the last one was 30, so 70 overall. The first two both got Ich, but not this batch. However I also didn't QT on my first fill of the tank and lost a bunch of other fish. Good thing for LiveAquaria's 14 day guarantee, as I always got my money back. However no more from those guys! I'll probably find a good LFS in Phoenix and go up there and get some if I try again. 

I was using ParaGuard, on my last import during QT (have 4 20g tanks now), but when they got visible signs of Ich, I did a dip and that killed the remaining fish that I got in. So I won't be going that route again with Cardinals. I upped the water temp to 82°F this time a day after they arrived on this shipment and some didn't like that either so I brought the temps back down. So 77°F they have been at and no Ich this time but again down to just 2 of 30. I've been bringing the TDS down on these guys and when checking their pH today it's around 6.5. So I'm gonna go get some peat and try to drop the levels even more and hopefully get them in breeding mood! LOL That is if I don't have two dudes or two chicks Hahahaha But they would love the butt load of tannins in the 100g that I've got a colony of scuds I've got growing in there. 



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## forrestcook

Man - I would have given up on cardinals long ago! I’ve only ever seen one tank in person with a healthy school of them, they were very pretty but far from worth the effort to me. 

Good luck, hopefully you’ll be the second healthy tank I see!


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Man - I would have given up on cardinals long ago! I’ve only ever seen one tank in person with a healthy school of them, they were very pretty but far from worth the effort to me.
> 
> Good luck, hopefully you’ll be the second healthy tank I see!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


LOL Yeah, sometimes I'm a bit stubborn when I want something. I really like the look of Cardinals though. I keep seeing people on YouTube with tanks full of them and wonder WTF is different with how they get them and they don't have any issues. 

I'll just have to find another fish that can be my pop of color in the tank if I can't get them to either breed or get a good quality source of some captive breed ones. 

I'm debating about if I'll be able to make it to the meeting tomorrow, as I've got the kids since my wife works. But if I do go, I'm wondering if I need to take the angels back that I got 2 months ago and see if I can auction them off. 

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## hivemindhermit

Does it have to be a pop of colour, or will shine do the trick? I'm partial to gold tetras, personally - particularly ones that aren't actually gold (I just like silver better!).

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## chayos00

hivemindhermit said:


> Does it have to be a pop of colour, or will shine do the trick? I'm partial to gold tetras, personally - particularly ones that aren't actually gold (I just like silver better!).
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Yeah, the wife and I want that color pop of the cardinals or something like that. There's already some in there that have that shiny, silvery colors. I would really do some colorful discus, except for their higher temp requirements and then that would equal a higher electric bill to keep the tank heated even higher.


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Yeah, the wife and I want that color pop of the cardinals or something like that. There's already some in there that have that shiny, silvery colors. I would really do some colorful discus, except for their higher temp requirements and then that would equal a higher electric bill to keep the tank heated even higher.


I went and hand picked 12 Neons on Thursday. Put them into the shrimp tank and started dosing THE RIGHT AMOUNT of Paragaurd. They still look fantastic and I don't think I've lost one.... what is more interesting is that tank is not heated at all... 
I don't think you should give up on Cardinals. There is nothing like them. I would locate a good LFS and do a group of Neons to figure things out. I've heard of lots of people having luck with garlic extract and a General Cure regimen. If you have success with the Neons they will blend in really well with the Cardinals. I looked and looked for something comparable. The closest I got was Emporer tetras and I have them in the tank right on top of this one. They don't have the visual impact of cardinals and neons... not even close.
It's going to take some cash and effort to get a nice school going, but only keeping 4 out of 70 was not your doing. That's the stock or shipping or whatever. Alot of the good local places will let you pick them up right from the breeder when they come in so they arent transferred to another holding tank.
I'm actually wishing I would have purchased a larger group. These 12 will need to be in QT for another 10 days at least. I wanted to pick up 30 on Thursday... never again will I not QT and treat.


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## forrestcook

Did you end up going to the meeting? I missed it due to family obligation. Curious how my tank stood up against the others in that show


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I went and hand picked 12 Neons on Thursday. Put them into the shrimp tank and started dosing THE RIGHT AMOUNT of Paragaurd. They still look fantastic and I don't think I've lost one.... what is more interesting is that tank is not heated at all...
> I don't think you should give up on Cardinals. There is nothing like them. I would locate a good LFS and do a group of Neons to figure things out. I've heard of lots of people having luck with garlic extract and a General Cure regimen. If you have success with the Neons they will blend in really well with the Cardinals. I looked and looked for something comparable. The closest I got was Emporer tetras and I have them in the tank right on top of this one. They don't have the visual impact of cardinals and neons... not even close.
> It's going to take some cash and effort to get a nice school going, but only keeping 4 out of 70 was not your doing. That's the stock or shipping or whatever. Alot of the good local places will let you pick them up right from the breeder when they come in so they arent transferred to another holding tank.
> I'm actually wishing I would have purchased a larger group. These 12 will need to be in QT for another 10 days at least. I wanted to pick up 30 on Thursday... never again will I not QT and treat.


Yeah, those groups of Cardinals had to already been in rough shape to have most die in a week after getting them in. Especially that last batch where I matched the water as close as possible to what they came bagged with. 

I also thought I ordered emperor tetras twice with like 15 or so each time and only this last time to have 3 left, as issues as the Cardinals. But they are actually Inpaichthys kerri - Purple Emperor Tetra vs Nematobrycon palmeri - Emperor Tetra, but it's what LiveAquaria had.

I got my peat moss today between Lowe's and Home Depot and some pantyhose to keep it contained in too. Went to HD first and could only find the actual moss vs Lowe's and the big bag of actual peat moss.









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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Did you end up going to the meeting? I missed it due to family obligation. Curious how my tank stood up against the others in that show
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I did go, but had the kids with, which I won't be doing again as it was more of me trying to keep them quiet and not rowdy. I left right after the home show part. So I didn't really get to pay attention too much to the home show. I don't recall seeing your tank, but for those not there they did just a brief look at those other tanks. Mostly they we're smaller tanks except for John's tank, who also won best of show. I was camping when the reminder email came out so I didn't get a chance to submit mine in time. LOL

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## chayos00

So I picked up two different kinds of peat moss and used them both in the QT tank with the Cardinals and the Royal Tetras. The water is getting full of tannins and the pH when checked yesterday was around high 5's, but the one thing I noticed is the female Royal Tetras is getting fat and one Cardinal is getting fat now too! So I'm hoping they are brewing eggs!!! 

However for the 125g the tannins are starting to take hold! The pH is around 7.2-7.4. I really do need a better digital meter that doesn't need to be calibrated each time I use it. But that's what you probably get for under $20. LOL

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## chayos00

So I'm a little torn....

Time for BRS's Black Friday sales! Wondering if I should just grab one too, but it says for TDS below 300 where I average about 400..... anyone know how much that would really matter for having a higher TDS??

BRS - 15% off SITEWIDE starts now! 
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/bulk-reverse-osmosis-filters-systems/reverse-osmosis-systems.html


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## chayos00

chayos00 said:


> So I'm a little torn....
> 
> Time for BRS's Black Friday sales! Wondering if I should just grab one too, but it says for TDS below 300 where I average about 400..... anyone know how much that would really matter for having a higher TDS??
> 
> BRS - 15% off SITEWIDE starts now!
> https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/bulk-reverse-osmosis-filters-systems/reverse-osmosis-systems.html


So I pulled the trigger and got the 4 Stage 150 GPD BRS RO/DI system along with a booster pump to start me out. Saved $78 with 15% off the RO/DI and 30% off their booster pump. I went with the 150gpd system for the reduced amount of waste water and hopefully better efficiency water produced. When I can afford it, I'm gonna prefilter it with the larger 20x4.5" big blue canister filter down to say 1 micron or 0.5" if I can find a sediment filter that small. Then I'll put a softener on the loop as my calcium is around 200ppm. Once I get it all here I'll see what I need to do to run RO to my kitchen for drinking water. Just wonder if the pre booster pump for the RO will be enough pressure to push that in a water line up in my attic and to the kitchen and the fridge. If I leave an RO drinking tank in the garage I may go with a 10g one vs the under sink of 3g.


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## chayos00

Got my new toy in while I was off 4x4ing this weekend! Vs it being delivered today. Glad I told the wife anticipating the change to not get yelled at for spending more money. LOL

Now to find time to set it up and get a water storage solution figured out.









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## skanderson

sure the panty hose are to contain the peat moss. is that what you told your wife?


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Once I get it all here I'll see what I need to do to run RO to my kitchen for drinking water. Just wonder if the pre booster pump for the RO will be enough pressure to push that in a water line up in my attic and to the kitchen and the fridge. If I leave an RO drinking tank in the garage I may go with a 10g one vs the under sink of 3g.


You very well may find you need a demand pump. My run from the basement to my kitchen is about 70', and with the demand pump turned off, the water flow is very weak. The pump makes a big difference especially if you have a rise like I do up from the basement.

One thing to keep in mind is that when you are filling the reservoir for the tank water, you lose pressure at the kitchen. Basically when you start filling your storage tanks, the water rushes out of the small drinking water tank, and all the newly made water goes to the larger tanks until they are full. Once they are full and your float valve shuts them off, the pressure in the small tank builds back up. I have mine set up with a solenoid and a timer so that I only make RO water at night. That way my pressure in the kitchen during the day is always good.

And I have the smaller regular tank for kitchen water, and have never found I needed more than the 3 gallons. Mostly using it for drinking and cooking, and three gallons goes a pretty long way, and gets filled up pretty fast when used as well.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> You very well may find you need a demand pump. My run from the basement to my kitchen is about 70', and with the demand pump turned off, the water flow is very weak. The pump makes a big difference especially if you have a rise like I do up from the basement.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that when you are filling the reservoir for the tank water, you lose pressure at the kitchen. Basically when you start filling your storage tanks, the water rushes out of the small drinking water tank, and all the newly made water goes to the larger tanks until they are full. Once they are full and your float valve shuts them off, the pressure in the small tank builds back up. I have mine set up with a solenoid and a timer so that I only make RO water at night. That way my pressure in the kitchen during the day is always good.
> 
> And I have the smaller regular tank for kitchen water, and have never found I needed more than the 3 gallons. Mostly using it for drinking and cooking, and three gallons goes a pretty long way, and gets filled up pretty fast when used as well.


Good info! I probably have a similar height and distance to my kitchen. Then the fridge is another 20' away from the sink but also goes back up into the attic. 

I swung by Sportsman's Warehouse as I knew they had a 55g drum for storage water, but you can only get in through the two holes in the top lid of the tank. So I figured I would look to see if I can find something on Craigslist for food safe storage containers that maybe the lid comes off. Or do I resort to using two large brute trash cans for my water storage and just have a balance tube between them. However I would just like one bigger taller container instead of two of them that take up a larger footprint of space in my garage.

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## chayos00

So tonight I flushed out the RO system, took out the DI block to not use it does a bit. I setup the booster pump and set it to 80psi, however it did start out at 90psi. I turned it down as I thought I saw that 80 should be the max. However the membrane can handle 150psi LOL. But looks like it's filling a 5g bucket in about 30 minutes and it filled the RO water bucket before the waste bucket! Woot woot, better than 1:1!! So low waste and about 240ish GPD! Not bad at all! I'm a happy man! Just need to get it mounted in a permanent setup now. 

Not sure if it's fully flushed from the membrane preservatives or not yet, but input was about 344 TDS and output of about 11. Waste was mid 500's TDS, tested out of curiosity. I did flush the sediment filter and the carbon block for about 30 minutes and then the RO membrane for about 1hr before doing my fill test. Do you guys think that's enough? The DOW documents say 24hrs, but I thought I recall seeing people say a few gallons is all that's needed.









Fill test, right side waste and left side RO.









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## chayos00

So I've determined I've got fin rot going on in my tank. It was hard to see at first, but I think I can finally see what's going on. I'm starting to dose a partial dose of ParaGuard, yesterday I started with a 1/3rd dose and today a 1/2 dose, tomorrow I'm gonna do a 2/3 dose and then a full dose the following day. I've done water changes and gravel vacced the sand, with very little gunk coming from it. My levels are 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, and about 20ish Nitrate. I'm now around 7.0pH, which slowly came down from 8ish when I was just tap water. I'm around 170ish on the TDS, haven't confirmed yet what the hardness level is. I know I keep seeing talk of water quality and water health, but I've gone back to 1-2 week water changes and about 55g of it too, plus with the lower levels in the tank I don't see how it's bad water. 

On a positive note, the algae in the tank has gone away from having BBA, or whatever that crap was.... So happy the plants have cleared out. I didn't notice that till my tannin level has gone up in this tank with the introduction of the peat moss. Which the fin rot issue was happening before that too. 

But another question I had that came to mind in my research. Is medicated foods. I am going to get SeaChem Focus, KanaPlex, and Garlic Guard to mix with some food. It shows to mix with flake food, but that would just become a ball of "crap", would it not??? I was thinking of getting some REPASHY Aquatic Gel then that would work for food that you could mix the meds with and hopefully normal feeding the fish as well.

The following is the mix of food I was thinking of going with, the spawn and grow for hopeful breeding I will have when the fish mature. 
Soilent Green
Spawn & Grow Freshwater
Community Plus

Thoughts on the medicated food options?? I just want to make sure I beat this and I tend to over do things too! LOL


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## The Dude1

I haven't used foods yet, only paraguard. Isn't there one specifically for bacterial infections that's in a little pellet? I will say this... don't go more than 6 days of paraguard without a water change. Pretty sure that's what killed off my Neons. You're going to go through alot of paraguard treating that tank. 5ml for every 10 gallons daily... I messed up my dosing for the first week and couldn't understand why my sick fish weren't getting better.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I haven't used foods yet, only paraguard. Isn't there one specifically for bacterial infections that's in a little pellet? I will say this... don't go more than 6 days of paraguard without a water change. Pretty sure that's what killed off my Neons. You're going to go through alot of paraguard treating that tank. 5ml for every 10 gallons daily... I messed up my dosing for the first week and couldn't understand why my sick fish weren't getting better.


Tetra's seem like they may be sensitive to ParaGuard, which is why I'm doing the gradual increase in dosing. The medication indicates that it should dissipate in the water after 24hrs, however, I'll keep up on doing water changes just to be sure. I do have the large bottle of ParaGuard, so I should have enough for dosing the tank, but yeah you are right it sure does consume a BUNCH of meds. 

I was just thinking people always talk about the best way to treat is via ingestion of the meds vs water dosing, so that's why I was asking about trying it.


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Tetra's seem like they may be sensitive to ParaGuard, which is why I'm doing the gradual increase in dosing. The medication indicates that it should dissipate in the water after 24hrs, however, I'll keep up on doing water changes just to be sure. I do have the large bottle of ParaGuard, so I should have enough for dosing the tank, but yeah you are right it sure does consume a BUNCH of meds.
> 
> I was just thinking people always talk about the best way to treat is via ingestion of the meds vs water dosing, so that's why I was asking about trying it.


It makes sense. I meant to get some hex shield from NLS as a precautionary thing for parasites in new fish. It's really pricey. Is there one for bacterial stuff? You would think there would be antibiotic fish meds


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## chayos00

So I finally determined for 100% sure what my algae issue was before, or at least what type of algae I had. It was staghorn, not BBA. But seems to be after going with the RO water mix and the peat moss in the water the staghorn algae went away after about 2 weeks of this new water. 

For the fin rot issue that seems to be much improved. I went till today for the paraguard dosing to be sure it was resolved. The fins are growing back on the fish that were affected. However there's an angel with a sore on it's side that I'm waiting to see if it heals itself or not. If not then I will move on to using the Repashy and individually medicate that angel further.


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## chayos00

And my 1 micron filter arrived today, so now I have my RO filtered from 5 micron sediment, 1 micron sediment, and 5 micron carbon block. Also now that I've put about 80-100 gallons through it, I'm getting about 6 TDS RO water out of the RO filter. I've removed the DI filter as it's pointless for what I need. Took a bit to get the filter to give me around a 98% rejection rate.


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## chayos00

So I'm a little perplexed on this issue.... I thought the sore on my angel was getting better when I was dosing paraguard, however today I noticed a "hole" in it's head now.... Wondering what your guys/gals thoughts are on this issue. I left the images as links to the original sized ones on Flickr in case you need a larger view of it. Ignore the floaters in the water. I was feeding the fish at this time. 

I'm wondering if I need to put him in a QT tank and then dose that 20g directly vs the big tank. Here's the meds I do have on hand, along with Repashy to food dose the Metro and Focus. What do you guys think I should go with? It seems to be that besides fixing the fin rot issue, I'm not fixing this guys problems. 

Seachem Paraguard
Seachem Metroplex
Seachem Focus
API General Cure
API Erythromycin 

IMG_1949 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_1952 by chayos00, on Flickr

IMG_1954 by chayos00, on Flickr

Large wound on the other side. Started small and has stopped growing in size. However not really changing much, I guess...
IMG_1956 by chayos00, on Flickr


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## The Dude1

This looks to be exactly what you are dealing with. 
Freshwater Hole in the Head Disease Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment
Hex shield from NLS would be good, but one of the meds you have may be the same thing. I would definately do medicated food at this point if you can.


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## schooldazed

Like a lot of forums these days this site is not as active as it once was but still think you will get the most expert advice here:

Angelfish Forum II
The Angelfish Forum II - Focused on Freshwater Angelfish. - Powered by vBulletin


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> This looks to be exactly what you are dealing with.
> Freshwater Hole in the Head Disease Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment
> Hex shield from NLS would be good, but one of the meds you have may be the same thing. I would definately do medicated food at this point if you can.


Honestly it's what I was thinking too. However I wasn't sure if it was that or just some sort of ulcer like the big one on the other side. Looks like the Metro is listed for hole in the head disease as well. 



schooldazed said:


> Like a lot of forums these days this site is not as active as it once was but still think you will get the most expert advice here:
> 
> Angelfish Forum II
> The Angelfish Forum II - Focused on Freshwater Angelfish. - Powered by vBulletin


Thanks there's a sticky about hole in head disease too. Time for reading! Thanks!


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## chayos00

From what I'm reading about this disease, it talks about nutrients in the water and how carbon could be related. I had actually just put in Carbon and poly filter in to help remove any meds from the water. But I just took both out today. Time to go move some fish on my QT tanks in the garage.


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## chayos00

So I finally got the tank cleaned out and moved the lone angel to it. I made my Repashy medicated food and added a splash of the garlic stuff from SeaChem and the smell is HORRENDOUS!!! Man talk about a sudden gag reflex that almost made me lose my lunch! Ewwww..... Next time I'll be sure to make and stir that sh!t away from my nose!!! 

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## chayos00

OMG BABIES!!! Just went to check on my Cardinals and the Kerri Tetra's and found Kerri babies!! FINALLY There's at least a dozen babies. Gonna have to get the babies out to keep them from possibly getting eaten. 

IMG_20171222_154341~2 by chayos00, on Flickr


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## The Dude1

Are you talking about the fish dead center in the photo?! If so that's one big baby!! The fry that popped up finally in my two tanks are literally little specs of dirt that dont follow the flow of water... size of a pin head.
Kerri tetras are the blue ones that look like emperors right?? Thus far none of my Emporer tetras have made it to adulthood. I'm going to start separating all fry into a Spec 3.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Are you talking about the fish dead center in the photo?! If so that's one big baby!! The fry that popped up finally in my two tanks are literally little specs of dirt that dont follow the flow of water... size of a pin head.
> Kerri tetras are the blue ones that look like emperors right?? Thus far none of my Emporer tetras have made it to adulthood. I'm going to start separating all fry into a Spec 3.


Correct that boy in the center. It's just over a quarter inch long. Think it's like the oldest one from the batch I just collected. About 30 overall. Some just tiny to this guy as the biggest. Some have the dark stripe and some are still colorless. 

On a sad upsetting front.... There is only one Cardinal Tetra in the tank now! No clue what happened to it's possible mate. I think the Cardinal is female too as it's getting fatter, but no boy to make her lay them eggs.

I think the guppy grass and the peat moss gave the babies a place to hide and get bigger. 



















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## The Dude1

30?!! Can you please post another FTS and maybe a shot of where the fry are hiding to make it in such tremendous numbers?? My tanks are pretty dense, but I literally found only 1 emperor tetra fry and he disappeared. I've got areas lacked with melon sized portions of bolbitus and another area that is larger than a tightly packed softball of windolev. Apparently it's not dense / expansive enough. My tanks are stocked pretty heavy, but there should still be SOME that make it.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> 30?!! Can you please post another FTS and maybe a shot of where the fry are hiding to make it in such tremendous numbers?? My tanks are pretty dense, but I literally found only 1 emperor tetra fry and he disappeared. I've got areas lacked with melon sized portions of bolbitus and another area that is larger than a tightly packed softball of windolev. Apparently it's not dense / expansive enough. My tanks are stocked pretty heavy, but there should still be SOME that make it.


I actually still have them out in my QT rack. I never moved them into the big tank, as I was hoping to try and breed them to get the numbers I wanted, since they kept dying from LiveAquaria. I went heavy on the RO water and peat moss in that tank to bring down the pH and increase the tannins to try and duplicate a natural environment of the Cardinals to get breeding to happen. I'll get a pic of the whole setup in a bit as I'm laying on the couch watching Trolls with my early to rise daughter who's laying on me. I was never one who could sleep in, but doesn't help having a 2.5 year old who's done sleeping. LOL 

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## chayos00

chayos00 said:


> I actually still have them out in my QT rack. I never moved them into the big tank, as I was hoping to try and breed them to get the numbers I wanted, since they kept dying from LiveAquaria. I went heavy on the RO water and peat moss in that tank to bring down the pH and increase the tannins to try and duplicate a natural environment of the Cardinals to get breeding to happen. I'll get a pic of the whole setup in a bit as I'm laying on the couch watching Trolls with my early to rise daughter who's laying on me. I was never one who could sleep in, but doesn't help having a 2.5 year old who's done sleeping. LOL


Thought I posted the pic.... Whoops! 





























Now as far as my next project, I'm going to try breeding my Orange Von Rio Tetras. I moved two females that were thick in the belly and three bright males out into another 20g on my rack in the garage. Going to try just leaving them in tank water first and if nothing after a month, I'll try the peat moss setup to see if that works, but these guys indicate a neutral pH level so not sure what their trick will be. Time will tell! 











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## chayos00

So looks like the Orange Von Rio's dropped eggs ALL across the tank today sometime. As I didn't see them for the feeding this morning, but later on I saw them. Kinda hard getting pics of the tiny white eggs. 

The Kerri Tetras are growing too and I lost my last Cardinal this weekend. Was away for a get away this weekend and came back to it sitting on top of the frog bit. As there are about 5-10 more babies in the tank now that are free swimming I'm debating about putting them back in the tank instead of that breeder box. However if I get anymore eggs laid I wonder if they would start eating them.

One tiny egg.









Eggs scattered across the plants. 









Zoomed in on the scattered eggs. 









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## chayos00

Been meaning to post for a few days now. My Orange Von Rio project has been a success. I can see free swimming fry in that tank. However I've also moved a female into the breeder box with a male and glass marbles on the bottom to keep the eggs safe if they spawn again. I'm now liking this breeding game! Now just wish I had more tanks to breed all the fish! Hahahaha 

Kerri's









Orange Von Rio's









Cardinals and another tetra, can't recall the name at the moment. 









Baby Orange Von Rio









Other tetras









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## chayos00

Well the one angel in QT finally passed last week sometime. He just wasn't responding to the meds for hole in the head disease nor some of the other general stuff. The cory that was in that QT tank responded well to meds and is fattening up again, after a few more week's I'll take him back to my DT. 

I got tired of my el cheapo PH meter (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NL0BVAY) and it's never staying calibrated. I did a bit a research and it seems that this meter Apera Instruments PH20 was still cheap, but it works much better. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ENFOHN8/). I just put it to first use today and so far I'm liking it. After sitting the meter in the solution/tank water it stabilizes it's reading in less than 5 minutes vs the el cheapo that took like 10-20 minutes to stabilize at a number. 

Fish are doing good otherwise, I'm going to get rid of the angels so I can introduce my smaller Kerri Tetra's and the Cardinal's (after their QT). Plus I'm trying to get the water parameters back to a similar number so I can bring those fish to the DT. Numbers got a bit skewed due to me starting to use just pure RO water doing my WC's to bring my numbers down to get softer water. So as soon as I get the change I'm gonna get my water making station made so I can do a standard bulk mix of RO water. 

Yeah.... my plants suck... I really want CO2 LOL Just need the money for a setup first.


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## Ben Belton

chayos00 said:


> Yeah.... my plants suck... I really want CO2 LOL Just need the money for a setup first.


Good luck. CO2 is one thing hard to do on the cheap also because if you don't want end of life dump, you have to put up more money. Check out Clint's latest video. He shows a regulator he says he got really cheap, and it does not do end of tank dump. I don't know anything about it, but might be worth some investigation.


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## chayos00

Ben Belton said:


> Good luck. CO2 is one thing hard to do on the cheap also because if you don't want end of life dump, you have to put up more money. Check out Clint's latest video. He shows a regulator he says he got really cheap, and it does not do end of tank dump. I don't know anything about it, but might be worth some investigation.


Yeah that's why I haven't just jumped into a CO2 setup, I've learned the hard way in the past with other cheap tools and don't skimp on equipment/tools anymore. If you have a link to whomever Clint is, I would love to check it out.


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## Ben Belton

HERE you go. Scroll to the end, I believe, to see the video with mention of his regulator at the end.


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## chayos00

So yesterday I removed my angels from my tank and moved them to my QT rack to transition them back to tap water to give to another local for his tank. I moved over about 40+ baby Kerri tetras, 18 Cardinals (one somehow stuck to the tank wall when draining the tank to make them easy to catch and didn't see it till it was too late) as well as I think 12 serpa tetras. 

Well today in my display tank I noticed a single cyst of Ich on a damned Cardinal. Ugh.... I didn't see that in my QT. I'm so pissed! I bumped my heaters to bring the tank up to 82°F overnight and them I'll increase it again tomorrow up to 86°F for treatment. I also dosed a half strength of ParaGuard for day 1 and will do 3/4 and them full the day after. I sure don't want to lose any fish! 

Do you guys/gals think it's Ich too? Is this Ich? https://imgur.com/a/lVrRT

I'm on my phone so I don't have the pics on here to do a proper upload of them. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> So yesterday I removed my angels from my tank and moved them to my QT rack to transition them back to tap water to give to another local for his tank. I moved over about 40+ baby Kerri tetras, 18 Cardinals (one somehow stuck to the tank wall when draining the tank to make them easy to catch and didn't see it till it was too late) as well as I think 12 serpa tetras.
> 
> Well today in my display tank I noticed a single cyst of Ich on a damned Cardinal. Ugh.... I didn't see that in my QT. I'm so pissed! I bumped my heaters to bring the tank up to 82°F overnight and them I'll increase it again tomorrow up to 86°F for treatment. I also dosed a half strength of ParaGuard for day 1 and will do 3/4 and them full the day after. I sure don't want to lose any fish!
> 
> Do you guys/gals think it's Ich too? Is this Ich? https://imgur.com/a/lVrRT
> 
> I'm on my phone so I don't have the pics on here to do a proper upload of them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


That's incredible that you have bred so many. Just awesome. I love Neons.. and I would like at least 150 more.. I've got an empty 2.6 that is planted and fully cycled. If I read that right you have bred cardinals?? My 2.6 has a decent layer of moss on the ground and wrapped around the hardscape. What did you do to encourage them to breed? Did you distinguish male and female or just had a group? I'm going to get another 40 tomorrow so I could put some in the little tank.
As to the spot... it looks highly suspect to me... I would absolutely remove that fish. I don't know that I would immediately hit the others with anything other than raising tank temp, but that's just me.
Very cool dude.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> That's incredible that you have bred so many. Just awesome. I love Neons.. and I would like at least 150 more.. I've got an empty 2.6 that is planted and fully cycled. If I read that right you have bred cardinals?? My 2.6 has a decent layer of moss on the ground and wrapped around the hardscape. What did you do to encourage them to breed? Did you distinguish male and female or just had a group? I'm going to get another 40 tomorrow so I could put some in the little tank.
> As to the spot... it looks highly suspect to me... I would absolutely remove that fish. I don't know that I would immediately hit the others with anything other than raising tank temp, but that's just me.
> Very cool dude.


I was attempting the same time I got the Kerri's, but my male that survived disappeared and the female later died stuck atop frogbit that was too thick. However I've got 18 Cardinals that need to mature and then I'll try breeding them too. The Kerri's got me that many over a few months of breeding, but I've left the two males and one female in my 20g and I'll try to breed some more to sell locally or to an LFS. I was going to move some glowights over (got some fat egg filled ladies), but since that spot is in question I'm going to wait till treatment is over. I've got the tank temp warmed up to 86°F and will do some ParaGuard as a precaution, but also see some "worn" find that it may help with too. 

I tried to find that spot today on the Cardinal, but it's gone now. Hope with the temps they stay gone! 

The Cardinals, serpa tetras, and kerri's finally filled that barren looking tank in. I think I've counted around 20 Orange Von Rio's in that tank. I want to get one more spawn of them and will call them good for now. I think I've become hooked on getting my fish to breed! LOL Wonder if I should try my hand at my CPD's (in a 10g on my desk). 

For getting them to breed, I've got the Kerri's in a 20g long with about a 60 TDS water and the bottom is just covered in peat moss. For the Orange Von Rio's, more RO water but about low 100's on the TDS. That tank is full of Bacopa Caroliniana. The next open tank has Crypts in it that I moved out of my 10g that got chocked full of it. All my plants in my 20g tanks are in Tupperware to make them easy to move around and clean out the tanks if needed for QT. 

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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> That's incredible that you have bred so many. Just awesome. I love Neons.. and I would like at least 150 more.. I've got an empty 2.6 that is planted and fully cycled. If I read that right you have bred cardinals?? My 2.6 has a decent layer of moss on the ground and wrapped around the hardscape. What did you do to encourage them to breed? Did you distinguish male and female or just had a group? I'm going to get another 40 tomorrow so I could put some in the little tank.
> As to the spot... it looks highly suspect to me... I would absolutely remove that fish. I don't know that I would immediately hit the others with anything other than raising tank temp, but that's just me.
> Very cool dude.


Here's those pics I promised.

The Kerri tank.









The Von Rio tank.









The next tank I'm gonna try with Crypts.









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## chayos00

I did a thing today.... LOL Got some Visa gift cards from work and finally bought a CO2 regulator. I know it's not a 2 stage one like I really wanted, but based on the cost and a friend of mine having a few on his tanks and no end of tank dumps I got one too. 

I ordered the premium Aquatek regulator with solenoid. Now I just need to get a flow meter and a pair of 20lbs CO2 tanks, as I want a backup when one tank goes empty. 

I was looking at the flow meters that are talked about on Gregg's post, but wondering about going with the 10-100cc/minute for $72 (on Amazon) or the 30-240cc/min for $55 also on Amazon. I probably won't start out with high levels of CO2, but a lower amount to give my plants a boost and to maybe up my light levels some. But I do have a sump and that will off gas from that alone. 

I'll also have to research reactors to get the most out of my CO2 as I don't want to have to drive Cross town all the time to refill my tanks, since the place I know of is open till 5pm and only M-F. 

So what do you guys think, the bigger or smaller flow gauge? And what style of reactor to research?









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## Greggz

Here's the thing. It's a bit of a guess.

Similar sized tanks would be myself (45 cc/min), Burr (60 cc/min), and OreoP (30 cc/min).

Based on that I would think the 10-100 cc/min should be fine.

Good luck and look forward to seeing what your actual flow rate is once you get it set up.


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## The Dude1

I use the same regulatornon my 150. I could only fit a 5# tank under there though. It's probably been going for a month already. I just stuck the end of the tube into a glass of water... set the flow where I thought it should be and unplugged it. I have a Griggs reactor that's more than 3 feet long behind the stand and I get tremendous dispersion. I transferred a drop checker from another tank and just watched it.. it gets to a very lime yellow by the time the C02 shuts off, but the fish are happy so I leave it there. 
The needle valve is very imprecise so it may take a while to get it situated. I don't know how well the gauges work as I've had mine on my 150 for a month and there has been very little pressure loss on the little 5# tank. A 20lb tank will last a very long time. Judging by the pressure drop I've seen on the 20lb tank running my 2 75 gallon tanks (with a much better more accurate regulator) I should get 6-8 months out of a single 20lb tank.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Here's the thing. It's a bit of a guess.
> 
> Similar sized tanks would be myself (45 cc/min), Burr (60 cc/min), and OreoP (30 cc/min).
> 
> Based on that I would think the 10-100 cc/min should be fine.
> 
> Good luck and look forward to seeing what your actual flow rate is once you get it set up.


Burr said he's got a skimmer on his canister, right? Do any of you guys run a sump? Mine puts me about 160ish gallons. I'm just wondering how much more that will off gas. However with my brand animal overflow I have a very minimal amount of splashing going on. That is unless like right now I'm upping the temps and increased my flow for more agitation for this damned Ich.... Ugh... 

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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I use the same regulatornon my 150. I could only fit a 5# tank under there though. It's probably been going for a month already. I just stuck the end of the tube into a glass of water... set the flow where I thought it should be and unplugged it. I have a Griggs reactor that's more than 3 feet long behind the stand and I get tremendous dispersion. I transferred a drop checker from another tank and just watched it.. it gets to a very lime yellow by the time the C02 shuts off, but the fish are happy so I leave it there.
> The needle valve is very imprecise so it may take a while to get it situated. I don't know how well the gauges work as I've had mine on my 150 for a month and there has been very little pressure loss on the little 5# tank. A 20lb tank will last a very long time. Judging by the pressure drop I've seen on the 20lb tank running my 2 75 gallon tanks (with a much better more accurate regulator) I should get 6-8 months out of a single 20lb tank.


I'll have to check out that reactor. Now you do have me curious about that 20lb tank fitting gonna have to measure when I crawl out of bed. The one good thing with using the flow meter is that the needle valve is set wide open and not really a factor. I'm hoping for a good 6 months for the tank to last, but only time will tell! LOL

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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Burr said he's got a skimmer on his canister, right? Do any of you guys run a sump? Mine puts me about 160ish gallons. I'm just wondering how much more that will off gas. However with my brand animal overflow I have a very minimal amount of splashing going on. That is unless like right now I'm upping the temps and increased my flow for more agitation for this damned Ich.... Ugh...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Yeah Burr has skimmer, and I thought @OreoP has a sump? Maybe he can chime in.

Bump:


chayos00 said:


> I'm hoping for a good 6 months for the tank to last, but only time will tell! LOL
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


FWIW, I get 2 months out of a #10 on my 120G, but from what I have seen, the use really varies from tank to tank.

And do take time to measure. I was going to get a #20, but it wouldn't have fit inside my stand.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Yeah Burr has skimmer, and I thought @OreoP has a sump? Maybe he can chime in.
> 
> Bump:
> FWIW, I get 2 months out of a #10 on my 120G, but from what I have seen, the use really varies from tank to tank.
> 
> And do take time to measure. I was going to get a #20, but it wouldn't have fit inside my stand.


From my GoogleFu, it seems that a 20lb tank is about 28" tall. Measuring my stand I have 34" from the floor to the 2x6's and about 40" between the beams, so looks like I'll be good! Too bad they didn't make a fatter CO2 tank like a 30lb one LOL. 

So looking at the Rex Griggs reactors, which just seems to be an empty PVC pipe with a downflow that just dissolves the gas in there. Can it really be that simple? No need for any bio balls or anything? 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> From my GoogleFu, it seems that a 20lb tank is about 28" tall. Measuring my stand I have 34" from the floor to the 2x6's and about 40" between the beams, so looks like I'll be good! Too bad they didn't make a fatter CO2 tank like a 30lb one LOL.
> 
> So looking at the Rex Griggs reactors, which just seems to be an empty PVC pipe with a downflow that just dissolves the gas in there. Can it really be that simple? No need for any bio balls or anything?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Yep... that's it. Uses dwell time to disperse the C02. I've made 3 of them. The longer the better. I think mine are 2.5 inches in diameter. Costs next to nothing, super easy to make, and it works very well.


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## chayos00

I found that I have about a 4.5' section of 4" PVC out in the garage, bet that would be too large? LOL Seems like I need to figure out how I'm going to feed my reactor water. Do I screw with my already setup plumbing, or just get another small Jebao DC pump to directly power it. Or should I stick with like 2-3" PVC and just make it like 4' tall or so, or heck, I can just make it however tall I want, the tank height is about 6'. I have about 5.5" of space between the stand and the wall, so I could stuff a fat tube back there. 

This is why I hate googling [censored][censored][censored][censored], I get all confused on what to do.... LOL Analysis Paralysis! It's time for bed, it's now 11pm.


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## OreoP

chayos00 said:


> I found that I have about a 4.5' section of 4" PVC out in the garage, bet that would be too large? LOL Seems like I need to figure out how I'm going to feed my reactor water. Do I screw with my already setup plumbing, or just get another small Jebao DC pump to directly power it. Or should I stick with like 2-3" PVC and just make it like 4' tall or so, or heck, I can just make it however tall I want, the tank height is about 6'. I have about 5.5" of space between the stand and the wall, so I could stuff a fat tube back there.
> 
> This is why I hate googling [censored][censored][censored][censored], I get all confused on what to do.... LOL Analysis Paralysis! It's time for bed, it's now 11pm.


CO2 consumption/loss is definitely higher with a sump set up. From my experience, minimizing splashing from the return lines is the most helpful with regards to CO2 loss. I have read that covering the sump with lids, plastic wrap, duct tapes also helps. For me, covering the sump did not make any change. What kind of overflow are you using?

Reactor: I have built both a Cerges and a RG type. Both work great but if I was do a new tank, I would opt for the RG. Just a lot cheaper and more flexible in terms of sizing. On my 135 gal with 2 canister filters, I have a 3" x 2ft RG reactor which works perfectly. I would strongly recommend that you go for the largest pipe size that you can accommodate. Feed the reactor with and independent pump and place the output tube end right at the intake of your main pump - this will also help minimize CO2 loss in the sump. Also make sure you have a ball valve on the exit of the reactor for back pressure.

CO2 tank: I would opt for the biggest one you can accommodate. On my 65gal tank with a sump, I have a 5 # tank. CO2 in this system is injected for about 9hrs/day. On the 135 gal with 2 canister filters I have a 20 # tank. CO2 in this system runs continuously. Both tanks last approximately 3 months. Refill cost for the 5 # is $12.00 and $25.00 for the 20# - another reason for going for a larger tank!

Flowmeter: Just based on your tank volume and sump, I would suggest you go for the 10-100. Burr did mention that the scale is "logarithmic" but I don't think that this should be of concern. Once you set your flow rate, you don't have to adjust it. These guys are accurate and stable!!


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## The Dude1

I'm not as knowledgeable about this topic as OreoP, and I do not have a sump. My reactor is about 3.5ft top to bottom.. maybe a bit more and utilizes 2.5" pipe. I am powering it with a XP3. No ball valve needed. I have amazing dispersion. No bubbles and my C02 is much lower than I had originally guessed based on 150 gallons of tank space. Best of all it was super simple. I'd have to check what the gph is for the XP3, but with 3 backets of media I'm sure it's alot lower than advertised. To me, it was simple. How much more complicated do I want to make this system to get a couple more days of C02 out of the ssme tank. If I can go simple I do. Less to trouble shoot or adjust.


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## chayos00

OreoP said:


> CO2 consumption/loss is definitely higher with a sump set up. From my experience, minimizing splashing from the return lines is the most helpful with regards to CO2 loss. I have read that covering the sump with lids, plastic wrap, duct tapes also helps. For me, covering the sump did not make any change. What kind of overflow are you using?
> 
> Reactor: I have built both a Cerges and a RG type. Both work great but if I was do a new tank, I would opt for the RG. Just a lot cheaper and more flexible in terms of sizing. On my 135 gal with 2 canister filters, I have a 3" x 2ft RG reactor which works perfectly. I would strongly recommend that you go for the largest pipe size that you can accommodate. Feed the reactor with and independent pump and place the output tube end right at the intake of your main pump - this will also help minimize CO2 loss in the sump. Also make sure you have a ball valve on the exit of the reactor for back pressure.
> 
> CO2 tank: I would opt for the biggest one you can accommodate. On my 65gal tank with a sump, I have a 5 # tank. CO2 in this system is injected for about 9hrs/day. On the 135 gal with 2 canister filters I have a 20 # tank. CO2 in this system runs continuously. Both tanks last approximately 3 months. Refill cost for the 5 # is $12.00 and $25.00 for the 20# - another reason for going for a larger tank!
> 
> Flowmeter: Just based on your tank volume and sump, I would suggest you go for the 10-100. Burr did mention that the scale is "logarithmic" but I don't think that this should be of concern. Once you set your flow rate, you don't have to adjust it. These guys are accurate and stable!!


Thanks for the input! I've got a DIY ghost reef overflow, it's about 3' long and very minimal noise/water breaking over it. Then I'm doing the bean animal drain setup with most flow through the main drain and a small quiet trickle down the secondary one. Then in the sump as long as I haven't lost about 5g of water from evaporation then there is very minimal churning of water as well. I tried to make my system as quiet as possible since I work from home and it's in my den where I work. If you go to the first 5 posts in my thread I summarized my whole build with pics. 

I've read about possibly sealing the sump, but I would imagine it has little effect like you mentioned. The only true way to seal it would to also seal off my emergency overflow pipe as well as I would think silicone down some glass and every joint possible, but that doesn't work for... well any possible use of a sump tank for filtration. So glad you confirmed that for me! LOL 

For the reactor I guess I'll just need to see if I can find the right fittings for getting the 4" pipe I have already to make into the reactor. Then of course needing to get another pump to feed the reactor. 

For the flowmeter since everyone is voting for the 10-100 meter I'll stick that one. 

The 20lb tank is what I'll be able to fit under the stand. I looked into a 50lb tank to have in the garage and feed the air through the wall, but that sounds more like a PITA than it's worth. LOL

I appreciate everyone's inputs so far! 

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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I'm not as knowledgeable about this topic as OreoP, and I do not have a sump. My reactor is about 3.5ft top to bottom.. maybe a bit more and utilizes 2.5" pipe. I am powering it with a XP3. No ball valve needed. I have amazing dispersion. No bubbles and my C02 is much lower than I had originally guessed based on 150 gallons of tank space. Best of all it was super simple. I'd have to check what the gph is for the XP3, but with 3 backets of media I'm sure it's alot lower than advertised. To me, it was simple. How much more complicated do I want to make this system to get a couple more days of C02 out of the ssme tank. If I can go simple I do. Less to trouble shoot or adjust.


Googling the XP3 is rated at 350gph, so probably more like 250gph in reality.

One question I do have is with the intake and output of the reactor in the water, there is no chance it would drain out with power off, is there? As a 4" x 48" cylinder is about 10g of water. Where as a 2.5" x 48” is about 4 gallons. Either way not a volume I would want to make sure my sump has the room for. 

I just tend to over think things.... I just want to make sure I do it right the first time vs having to make a version 2. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Googling the XP3 is rated at 350gph, so probably more like 250gph in reality.
> 
> One question I do have is with the intake and output of the reactor in the water, there is no chance it would drain out with power off, is there? As a 4" x 48" cylinder is about 10g of water. Where as a 2.5" x 48” is about 4 gallons. Either way not a volume I would want to make sure my sump has the room for.
> 
> I just tend to over think things.... I just want to make sure I do it right the first time vs having to make a version 2.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Nope. The Griggs reactor is all sealed up and never needs to be opened or messed with. No more risky than just running a canister without the reactor. Mine just sits on the floor right behind my stand. Couldn't be more simple


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Nope. The Griggs reactor is all sealed up and never needs to be opened or messed with. No more risky than just running a canister without the reactor. Mine just sits on the floor right behind my stand. Couldn't be more simple


Exactly as I was hoping and thinking! Didn't think about it like a canister. 

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## chayos00

One quick question, for those who have bought CO2 tanks, did you find them cheaper locally, or online? Seems a 20lb tank is about $125 from what I have seen, most if not all being aluminum. 

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## Wobblebonk

If you have to swap instead of refill it was cheaper than that for me to just buy tanks directly from roberts oxygen. Though they often give me a steel tank I just swap them out anyhow so I don't care. If you want to save some money you can get cheaper on ebay and swap that out but I lack patience sometimes.


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## OreoP

Which ever route you take to purchase the tank - locally or online, pay particular attention to the certification date stamp. If I remember correctly, CO2 tanks are certified for 5 years.


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## chayos00

Wobblebonk said:


> If you have to swap instead of refill it was cheaper than that for me to just buy tanks directly from roberts oxygen. Though they often give me a steel tank I just swap them out anyhow so I don't care. If you want to save some money you can get cheaper on ebay and swap that out but I lack patience sometimes.


It seems the option for both refill or exchange can happen locally. But I would prefer to be able to refill instead. Either way all the places suck for their open hours. 8-5pm M-F. Which I work 7:30-4pm, so it would be close if I can make it to those places as they are all across town. 

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## chayos00

On a separate note, that Ich treatment is in question. At the end of last week I noticed another Cardinal showing cysts. I decided to up my temps from 86°F up to 88°F and while still dosing Paraguard I'm going to take the treatment up to three weeks vs ending it tomorrow. Can't be too safe with stopping that problem! So annoying! If I ever have to get Cardinals again, they are going to be in QT for 2 months.... He|| I think I'm going to do that for any new fish, vs the month that I was doing. 

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## The Dude1

There is a place in Tampa near me that refills.. but they require you to drop off the tank and pick it up 3 days later. Your best best is to talk to a place and decide based on what they offer. My exchange place is like 3 minutes from my house. They will let me pay over the phone and they leave a nice looking filled aluminum tank unlocked among the hundreds of tanks. I just leave my empty one behind in the same spot in the case that I can't make it during business hours.
Maybe this is too forward thinking, but that's how I work. If you do refills you will have to buy a new tank in 5 years possibly less or recertified or however that works... I just get a new filled tank when I need one. No further concerns.


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## Jamo33

Found a tank on Craigslist and bought it for nothing compared to brand new. Went into my local air gas and they swapped it out with a filled one. Overall saved over half the cost of buying tank and gas together from air gas. Hop online and see if you can get one, big money saver.


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## chayos00

I did some calling around today as well. I called about 20lb/9kg tanks and they are $150-200 with a $16-30 swap or refill price depending upon the location. A "grow house" place told me about 50lb/22kg tanks being refilled at a local soda distribution place so I called and they are only $9.40 for a refill!? I had to ask her twice as I was like is that $940 or $9.40, which she confirmed $9.40. So that large of a tank I could put off to the side out of sight and get like 6-12+ months out of based on how long smaller tanks last others. But the cost is like $300 for one from online and I would want a spare tank for when this one goes empty. Gonna have to break out some math and see where/how long is my break even point. 

Next time to check my local Craigslist, let go, and offer up for used tanks. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> I did some calling around today as well. I called about 20lb/9kg tanks and they are $150-200 with a $16-30 swap or refill price depending upon the location. A "grow house" place told me about 50lb/22kg tanks being refilled at a local soda distribution place so I called and they are only $9.40 for a refill!? I had to ask her twice as I was like is that $940 or $9.40, which she confirmed $9.40. So that large of a tank I could put off to the side out of sight and get like 6-12+ months out of based on how long smaller tanks last others. But the cost is like $300 for one from online and I would want a spare tank for when this one goes empty. Gonna have to break out some math and see where/how long is my break even point.
> 
> Next time to check my local Craigslist, let go, and offer up for used tanks.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Best I found for a 20lb new nice aluminum tank was $120 then $32 to exchange. Of course.. then I just exchanged my nice new tank, but I got an equally nice filled one and it took less than 5 minutes. 

A 50lb tank will be huge and difficult to carry... very difficult... think dolly... and then getting it in and out of a vehicle. So many people focus on cost.. save $10-$20 up front in exchange for a lifetime of hassle. I'm not as big as I was, but I'm still large enough to be competitive in the heavyweight division at most national level bodybuilding competitions. I'm a BIG dude and a full 20lb tank is cumbersome. No way could I handle a 50lb tank. The weight given is only the weight of the gas... not the sum total of tank and gas... these are things you should consider. 

Also I've yet to see a nice looking 50lb tank. They look like the stuff you would find on the side of a *******'s home off to the side of some back rode.. I just want you to consider all the points. Is there a reason you couldn't start making plans to get a new filled tank once your down to say 100psi?? A 20lb tank will last a very long time. Longer than some marriages. I'm just saying on one hand your trying to save money, on the other you're really spending unnecessarily. How far are these places from you? It seems to me like keeping 3 Jerry cans of gasoline in your garage "just in case" when you have a fully functioning gas gauge and gas stations within a couple miles even in rural areas...

For the prices you found I would pick up a filled 20lb tank and be on my way after a brief friendly chit chat with the owner about your concerns regarding your work schedule. Most people can be very friendly and accommodating to other "normal" respectful people.

Oh... I just saw in the other thread that you keep 3 propane tanks for your grille. If that's your thing I'm not going to continue to harp on it. I've got one... that I've got no problem running to exchange if it runs out mid- BBQ LOL. To each his own. I've only got a 5# tank on my 150. I don't know how long it will last but hasn't moved yet. Probably been 6 weeks or more.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Best I found for a 20lb new nice aluminum tank was $120 then $32 to exchange. Of course.. then I just exchanged my nice new tank, but I got an equally nice filled one and it took less than 5 minutes.
> 
> A 50lb tank will be huge and difficult to carry... very difficult... think dolly... and then getting it in and out of a vehicle. So many people focus on cost.. save $10-$20 up front in exchange for a lifetime of hassle. I'm not as big as I was, but I'm still large enough to be competitive in the heavyweight division at most national level bodybuilding competitions. I'm a BIG dude and a full 20lb tank is cumbersome. No way could I handle a 50lb tank. The weight given is only the weight of the gas... not the sum total of tank and gas... these are things you should consider.
> 
> Also I've yet to see a nice looking 50lb tank. They look like the stuff you would find on the side of a *******'s home off to the side of some back rode.. I just want you to consider all the points. Is there a reason you couldn't start making plans to get a new filled tank once your down to say 100psi?? A 20lb tank will last a very long time. Longer than some marriages. I'm just saying on one hand your trying to save money, on the other you're really spending unnecessarily. How far are these places from you? It seems to me like keeping 3 Jerry cans of gasoline in your garage "just in case" when you have a fully functioning gas gauge and gas stations within a couple miles even in rural areas...
> 
> For the prices you found I would pick up a filled 20lb tank and be on my way after a brief friendly chit chat with the owner about your concerns regarding your work schedule. Most people can be very friendly and accommodating to other "normal" respectful people.
> 
> Oh... I just saw in the other thread that you keep 3 propane tanks for your grille. If that's your thing I'm not going to continue to harp on it. I've got one... that I've got no problem running to exchange if it runs out mid- BBQ LOL. To each his own. I've only got a 5# tank on my 150. I don't know how long it will last but hasn't moved yet. Probably been 6 weeks or more.


Yeah when I talked to a gas store today the guy said, you ought to come down and check out the 50lb tank first before deciding on that route. Since he said that depending steel or aluminum it could be a full about 200lbs overall. Which yeah getting it out of my 4runner would be the question. LOL

The idea of exchanging tanks just bugs me. I mean buy something and the turn it in and get something else than what I just bought just baffles me. Guess just something I need to get over. 

I was looking into seeing how much of a pain it would be for using a 50 to refill a 20. The worst of it seems to be having to invert the 50 but being upwards of 200lbs overall and not letting it hit the valve and breaking that seems to be the worst I can imagine for that. Since for about $50-60 you can find a refill harness for a 50 to smaller sized tanks with a purge valve on it. So due to the weight I may just say what are you thinking and stick to the 20's and hope I get 4-6+ months out of one and then refill it in the mean time. 

I honestly don't know how I ended up with 3 propane tanks. LOL think I bought two and then my dad brought over and exchange one that I just refill too. I have a gas station down the road where I can refill 3 cheaper than swapping two of them. 

The gas stores are within about 30 minutes but that would only leave me with a 30 minute window to get it done. Which of course sometimes I get stuck late at work too. 

Either way, I just over think the heck out of things and cause myself more worries. But you sound right trying to save money while making it a PITA. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> The idea of exchanging tanks just bugs me. I mean buy something and the turn it in and get something else than what I just bought just baffles me. Guess just something I need to get over.


Lol!! I had the EXACT same issue when I first went to get my brand new aluminum tank filled. The lady said they only did refills, but doing so I could just come in grab a new one and drop off the old one. Or she told me about the place in Tampa that fills, but requires 3 days. I expressed my concerns about just having purchased this big beautiful perfect tank and went on and on. She said "ok, just let me show you what I've got". She had row after row of brand new aluminum tanks just like mine. Even better I had no worries about certifications or any of that. Just a filled, tested, brand new looking tank each time for $32. I think you'll be pleased with what they have in that size. Apparently most are used in home breweries and those guys want everything to look nice and polished so they actually wipe down the tanks and keep them looking really nice. There is nothing wrong with thinking all this stuff through. Especially if the tank is going to be visible to people coming over. My 5lb tank running my 150 is hidden in the cabinet, but I still want things nice and clean. They gave me a nice brand new polished 5lb tank too.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Lol!! I had the EXACT same issue when I first went to get my brand new aluminum tank filled. The lady said they only did refills, but doing so I could just come in grab a new one and drop off the old one. Or she told me about the place in Tampa that fills, but requires 3 days. I expressed my concerns about just having purchased this big beautiful perfect tank and went on and on. She said "ok, just let me show you what I've got". She had row after row of brand new aluminum tanks just like mine. Even better I had no worries about certifications or any of that. Just a filled, tested, brand new looking tank each time for $32. I think you'll be pleased with what they have in that size. Apparently most are used in home breweries and those guys want everything to look nice and polished so they actually wipe down the tanks and keep them looking really nice. There is nothing wrong with thinking all this stuff through. Especially if the tank is going to be visible to people coming over. My 5lb tank running my 150 is hidden in the cabinet, but I still want things nice and clean. They gave me a nice brand new polished 5lb tank too.


Yeah I like pretty things too when it comes to my equipment, however it sucks I can't "make it mine" with a sticker or anything like that.... But no a 20lb one will be able to hide under my stand without any issues. I'm now hunting the local online people selling tanks to see if I can find a cheap 20lb tank or even a 50lb one to see if they will hook me up with two 20's then. LOL


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## chayos00

As far as that "possible Ich" outbreak. I'm not sure if it really is Ich or something else. I've realized I've only noticed it on this one specific fish with this crappy color pattern on it, which is why I know it's the one fish and it's always right around it's tale. I just pulled him out of my DT and getting a QT tank ready to keep him in to watch him. However I'm going to keep my tank at 88°F till next Tuesday which will put me at 3 weeks to treat for Ich. 

https://imgur.com/a/lVrRT


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## The Dude1

My Aquatech regulator now has 2 nonfunctioning gauges. This is the second one. I thought it might be a little early for my tank to be empty, but didn't think that both gauges would fail within 3 months of use. Just thought I'd share. Did you post a link to the flow meter you were going to use. I need to decide whether to use something like that so I can at least know when I'm out or cut my losses.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> My Aquatech regulator now has 2 nonfunctioning gauges. This is the second one. I thought it might be a little early for my tank to be empty, but didn't think that both gauges would fail within 3 months of use. Just thought I'd share. Did you post a link to the flow meter you were going to use. I need to decide whether to use something like that so I can at least know when I'm out or cut my losses.


Think I only posted it in Greggz thread if I did. However here's the 10-100cc/min meter.

Dwyer Rate-Master Series RM Flowmeter, 2" Scale, Range 10-100 cc/min Air with Stainless Steel Valve

Good to know about the gauges, I was looking at the tank pressure gauge and wondered why it would need to go up to 3000 PSI for the range, when something like 1200-1500psi would be better suited I would think since CO2 should read in the 800 PSI range. As well as most gauges are most accurate in the 20-80% range. 

Have you contacted Aquatech to see if they will send replacement gauges? Wonder if it's something clogging the gauges? 

If you have found replacement gauges, want to share a link? I haven't looked into what size these fittings are yet for the regulator.


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Think I only posted it in Greggz thread if I did. However here's the 10-100cc/min meter.
> 
> Dwyer Rate-Master Series RM Flowmeter, 2" Scale, Range 10-100 cc/min Air with Stainless Steel Valve
> 
> Good to know about the gauges, I was looking at the tank pressure gauge and wondered why it would need to go up to 3000 PSI for the range, when something like 1200-1500psi would be better suited I would think since CO2 should read in the 800 PSI range. As well as most gauges are most accurate in the 20-80% range.
> 
> Have you contacted Aquatech to see if they will send replacement gauges? Wonder if it's something clogging the gauges?
> 
> If you have found replacement gauges, want to share a link? I haven't looked into what size these fittings are yet for the regulator.


No and I probably won't. The first one they sent looked like a 4 year old put it together. The needle valve isn't very good anyway. I'll probably hook up a cheap bubble counter for now and contact Alan Le to build me another one. Maybe another with 2 needle valves so I can run C02 on the 11.4 in the cabinet as well to help get the pH down.
I can't stand the back and forth and down time on things like this. I've got a decent investment in fish in this tank and I have some concerns about their products now. Maybe I'll give it away in an RAOK to someone that wants to tinker when I get the new one.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> No and I probably won't. The first one they sent looked like a 4 year old put it together. The needle valve isn't very good anyway. I'll probably hook up a cheap bubble counter for now and contact Alan Le to build me another one. Maybe another with 2 needle valves so I can run C02 on the 11.4 in the cabinet as well to help get the pH down.
> I can't stand the back and forth and down time on things like this. I've got a decent investment in fish in this tank and I have some concerns about their products now. Maybe I'll give it away in an RAOK to someone that wants to tinker when I get the new one.


So the needle valve is used wide open when you use the flow gauge, so no need to replace that, the flow gauge takes over that duty. Yeah Alan is expensive, but has pretty things made. 

If you wanted to split your current setup, I would imagine a T fitting and a second flow meter would work for a second tank. I was debating if I wanted to do that for my desktop 10g next to the 125g. 

For your pH, if your water is as bad as my Arizona water, might want to check out an RO setup like I did for your pH and then you can control your water without the need for using CO2 for that. When I get the time I want to do something similar to what Greggz has going on. I need to find a large storage tank to keep in my garage, then I can pipe in through my house soft water loop to do water changes semi automated. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> So the needle valve is used wide open when you use the flow gauge, so no need to replace that, the flow gauge takes over that duty. Yeah Alan is expensive, but has pretty things made.
> 
> If you wanted to split your current setup, I would imagine a T fitting and a second flow meter would work for a second tank. I was debating if I wanted to do that for my desktop 10g next to the 125g.
> 
> For your pH, if your water is as bad as my Arizona water, might want to check out an RO setup like I did for your pH and then you can control your water without the need for using CO2 for that. When I get the time I want to do something similar to what Greggz has going on. I need to find a large storage tank to keep in my garage, then I can pipe in through my house soft water loop to do water changes semi automated.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Yes I do need to look into those. I'm trying to breed some tetras and they need very soft water. I've been mixing 50/50 with distilled water and then soaking in peat with a powerhead for a week. Just did my first 50% water change with the new water and I can't believe how active and outgoing they suddenly are. Both groups in both tanks are right out in front dancing around. Even with small tanks like this I have to lug 10 1 gallon containers to the store to refill (and today the machine was broken) and it still ends up being like $30 a month just for water changes on those two tanks. I've got a perfect spot outside between the house and the garage for a barrel and I could just collect it the day before. Or just have it set up in the garage? Did you install yours?


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## chayos00

So this is my current water making station. LOL Using 5g buckets at the moment. So I can confirm that one of those places that refills 5g water jugs, a 5g bucket does fit. I felt like an idiot having 4 buckets at local grocery store, but 10 1g jugs wouldn't be any fun either. 

Once I find a bigger water container I'll get the setup in the garage near the tank.









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## Proramza

Great build! Looking forward to seeing how it progresses!


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## Ben Belton

Congrats on finally getting the CO2. You'll love it once you get it going. This is the most action your thread has had ever. It's great.


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> So this is my current water making station. LOL Using 5g buckets at the moment. So I can confirm that one of those places that refills 5g water jugs, a 5g bucket does fit. I felt like an idiot having 4 buckets at local grocery store, but 10 1g jugs wouldn't be any fun either.
> 
> Once I find a bigger water container I'll get the setup in the garage near the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


When you get it located, get a piece of board and fix it to the wall. Then you can set it up a bit more nicely.

Mine is set up in a storage room in my basement.


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## The Dude1

I didn't realize it was so complex. I figured a valve to divert flow and then the filters... I'm going to have to clean up the garage and have it run from a hose outlet or something... maybe in our disaster of a laundry room.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I didn't realize it was so complex. I figured a valve to divert flow and then the filters... I'm going to have to clean up the garage and have it run from a hose outlet or something... maybe in our disaster of a laundry room.


It's only as complex as you make it. Greggz made his to also feed his kitchen as well as aquarium, which is what my plan will be to. 

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## chayos00

Proramza said:


> Great build! Looking forward to seeing how it progresses!


Thank you very much! As do I! 

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## chayos00

Ben Belton said:


> Congrats on finally getting the CO2. You'll love it once you get it going. This is the most action your thread has had ever. It's great.


Thanks! Yeah it's come alive lately for sure. I can't wait till I can get my CO2 going and then back to EI dosing and then getting an auto dosing system going. I want to be able to "automate" as much as I can. A water change system, be it a manually activated setup, but it's gonna have a fill and drain line going out to my RO and then the drain connected to my softener loop drain in the garage. Which will be about a 15-25' run. 

Then hopefully I'll figure out some sort of auto top off too, since this thing evaporates 5-7g a week. 

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## chayos00

So I have my first equipment failure that I have confirmed yesterday. My Ranco temperature controller sensor has died. I was all WTF when I saw it was showing 96°F for my tank water. However I quickly confirmed with my IR temp gauge that it was actually 86°F. I was able to get it to read correctly after powering the controller off for about 30 minutes. I noticed it not working again yesterday reading 109°F, but tank temps were about 80°F. 

Did some research and turns out my temp sensor isn't quite waterproof, more like water resistant. So basically over time water gets in and screws up the thermistor. So nothing that a new $30 sensor from Amazon to get it by Tuesday and some heat shrink with adhesive in it to waterproof the sensor and I should be back in business. But as my wife says another damned expense of your stupid fish tank. LOL 

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## trailsnale

chayos00 said:


> So I have my first equipment failure that I have confirmed yesterday. My Ranco temperature controller sensor has died. I was all WTF when I saw it was showing 96°F for my tank water. However I quickly confirmed with my IR temp gauge that it was actually 86°F. I was able to get it to read correctly after powering the controller off for about 30 minutes. I noticed it not working again yesterday reading 109°F, but tank temps were about 80°F.
> 
> Did some research and turns out my temp sensor isn't quite waterproof, more like water resistant. So basically over time water gets in and screws up the thermistor. So nothing that a new $30 sensor from Amazon to get it by Tuesday and some heat shrink with adhesive in it to waterproof the sensor and I should be back in business. But as my wife says another damned expense of your stupid fish tank. LOL
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


big fan of ranco too. i use a thermowell to avoid the water-proof/resistant issues with those probes.


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## chayos00

trailsnale said:


> big fan of ranco too. i use a thermowell to avoid the water-proof/resistant issues with those probes.


Yeah I love this controller too. Seemed most forums talked about replacing them, but after reading about them and seeing their site I knew right away it was my fault. I did see someone DIY a replacement sensor but I couldn't find the 30k ohm thermistor they got for a few bucks, so I just got the new harness and went the cheaper route that they even talked about on their site, the heat shrink with adhesive to seal it up. Which I plan on doing a double layer to really ensure it's sealed good. Used to use this kind of heat shrink on planes all the time when I was in the air force. 

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## chayos00

Alright, just got my last $100 gift card from work and..... I have a 10-100cm flowmeter on order from Amazon! LOL


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Alright, just got my last $100 gift card from work and..... I have a 10-100cm flowmeter on order from Amazon! LOL


LOL Love it! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts once you get it going.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> LOL Love it! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts once you get it going.


Thanks! Just need to get a co2 tank, a separate water pump, and the reactor made. 

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## chayos00

I just need someone to give me 50 more applause points at work and I can cash out the other 50 I have pending, as the minimum I can cash out a Visa card for is $100 which = 100 points. Then I would have the needed pump too. 

Plus after I get parts in hand then I can figure out how to plumb items together. 

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## chayos00

Got my temp controller fixed. Didn't realize I had used so many hard to get to zip ties holding things in place. LOL

Before, yeah that claims 189°F.









Sensor with two layers of adhesive lined heat shrink. I crimped together the first layer of shrink along with the outside one.









Resolder job for the sensor wires. 









Resolder job for the sensor wires. Had to get my wife's help. Couldn't hold the iron, the PCB, and the wire all at the same time while it hung in place in the stand. 









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## chayos00

Got my flowmeter today. Gonna need to find some fittings for it now that I can see what it uses. So this is what I've got so far. 

I do have a small plastic check valve that can use but wondered if a metal based one would be better? 

I've noticed my Amano shrimp are out and about again now that the angels aren't around anymore. Which I believe the guy that I have them to had two die on him. 









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## Nlewis

What model flow meters are you guys using? I see them all the time at work and may be able to get one for free.

Found it on the previous page.


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## chayos00

Nlewis said:


> What model flow meters are you guys using? I see them all the time at work and may be able to get one for free.
> 
> Found it on the previous page.


Was going to say depending on tank size and sump a 5-50cc/min or 10-100cc/min seems to be the ones that are working. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Got my flowmeter today. Gonna need to find some fittings for it now that I can see what it uses. So this is what I've got so far.
> 
> I do have a small plastic check valve that can use but wondered if a metal based one would be better?
> 
> I've noticed my Amano shrimp are out and about again now that the angels aren't around anymore. Which I believe the guy that I have them to had two die on him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I had 3 of the metal check valves seize up on me. It was such an ordeal that I have placed my bubble counters post check valve on two tanks and I have a bubble counter right off the regulator in my 150 and another after the check valve. I personally prefer the cheap plastic ones.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I had 3 of the metal check valves seize up on me. It was such an ordeal that I have placed my bubble counters post check valve on two tanks and I have a bubble counter right off the regulator in my 150 and another after the check valve. I personally prefer the cheap plastic ones.


Good feedback! Since the regulator came with that cheap bubble counter, I'm going to put it inline as just a quick visual to see the system is flowing.


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Good feedback! Since the regulator came with that cheap bubble counter, I'm going to put it inline as just a quick visual to see the system is flowing.


I wouldn't. Bubble counters run dry quite quickly, and I doubt you want to be filling it just to see if the system is flowing. A quick glance at the flow meter and seeing the floating ball at your set point does the same thing.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> I wouldn't. Bubble counters run dry quite quickly, and I doubt you want to be filling it just to see if the system is flowing. A quick glance at the flow meter and seeing the floating ball at your set point does the same thing.


HAHAHA good to know! Not that I would use it, but some sort of viscous oil would be best to not dry out then. But then I'm sure that would somehow get all up in the rest of the tubing and booger that all up. 

I'll have to get some sort of mount like @vanish made to put my meter up front for me to see it easily. I guess I have some scrap acrylic left over from my overflow build that I can use. Or unless I find some metal to make a mounting tab with.


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> I'll have to get some sort of mount like @vanish made to put my meter up front for me to see it easily. I guess I have some scrap acrylic left over from my overflow build that I can use. Or unless I find some metal to make a mounting tab with.


Yeah you could do that. I've just got mine attached to my CO2 tank with Velcro. Was going to be temporary, but it does the job so I have never improved on it. 

But I do like the one that Vanish made.


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## The Dude1

Greggz said:


> I wouldn't. Bubble counters run dry quite quickly, and I doubt you want to be filling it just to see if the system is flowing. A quick glance at the flow meter and seeing the floating ball at your set point does the same thing.


If you place it between the input on the reactor and the check valve it will back fill every time the C02 shuts off. Never runs dry or needs refilling.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> If you place it between the input on the reactor and the check valve it will back fill every time the C02 shuts off. Never runs dry or needs refilling.


Hahaha TIL a trick to try! It's all about those little life hacks like this. 

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## vanish

I almost installed a bubble counter on the reactor for that exact reason - so I could be sure co2 was actually getting into the reactor after the check valve. I always thought the idea of a clear reactor was silly, but for a noob like me, it would be nice to get some visual confirmation that the co2 is actually mixing with the water.

I'm glad I decided to jump right to a flow meter, as counting bubbles per second is not an easy task. This is much more precise. I could have paid about half what i did on my regulator / needle valve combo though.


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## The Dude1

vanish said:


> I almost installed a bubble counter on the reactor for that exact reason - so I could be sure co2 was actually getting into the reactor after the check valve. I always thought the idea of a clear reactor was silly, but for a noob like me, it would be nice to get some visual confirmation that the co2 is actually mixing with the water.
> 
> I'm glad I decided to jump right to a flow meter, as counting bubbles per second is not an easy task. This is much more precise. I could have paid about half what i did on my regulator / needle valve combo though.


That's the main reason I have them on all of my tanks. As far as flow meter/ regulator cost... I completely regret buying a bargain regulator. Nothing works... I've had 3 bargain regulators. The gauges in 1 were just... it looked like a 3 year old stuck a piece of crayon colored paper into a tupperware... returned... the second the gauge needles were stuck in the halfway position on both gauges when I got it.... the third... both needles are AGAIN stuck after only 6 months of use. The needle valve is a disaster waiting to happen... I need to take everything apart again to have some way to ensure that my tank isn't out of gas since the gauges no longer work. First one was Up Aqua, next 2 are Aquatech. Just junk. My regulator built by Alan Le is a complete pleasure. The needle valve is fantastic and allows incredibly precise adjustment... and it holds it. Flow meter is about $100 right? Aquatech is $120. Most of the built ones are only $280 - 300 if I remember correctly. Live and learn.


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## chayos00

So tried to go to Home Depot today to pick out the needed parts to make my 4"x4' reactor, however having two little humans with and one who was sick was a bad idea..... Couldn't focus to figure out what I needed as the 2.5 year old kept messing with my sick 1 year old and making him cry. Ugh.... However 4" sewer fittings are kinda pricey. If the kids are behaving tomorrow I might try Lowe's to see if they have PVC 4" fittings to make what I need. 

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## chayos00

Discovered a neat site today. https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com I tried to look online and see what Lowes had, but they were very limited. However this website has an unlimited choice for what I need to make the simplest connections for my PVC reactor. I've also ordered a Jebao DCP-8000 to power the pump along with some Tygon tubing for my CO2 lines.


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## chayos00

So it's been a while since I've done a tank update. I took these pics a few days back, but never got around to posting them. Things are going along steady without much change. My BBA is still out there, but better since I've gotten rid of the angels so that the amano shrimp are out and about doing their thing again. You'll notice the Cardinal tetra's are in the tank along with the Kerri tetra's now. However this pic doesn't show that there are 40+ of the Kerri's LOL. Most of my Orange von Rio's have died, but not from anything specific, as before the ich, they were moved to the breeder tank and all but one adult is left there and the 125g has all but one adult in there. So old age? IDK.... 

FTS - Day 385 (03/21/2018)
https://flic.kr/p/Hfw7sq

Right Side - Day 385 (03/21/2018)
https://flic.kr/p/FJ1YMv

Left Side - Day 385 (03/21/2018)
https://flic.kr/p/25jzafA


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## The Dude1

That's weird about the Von Rio's. Tank is looking good though! It's hard to get a good presence in these large tanks. I've got over 150 Neons in my 150 and I need ALOT more for the look I want.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> That's weird about the Von Rio's. Tank is looking good though! It's hard to get a good presence in these large tanks. I've got over 150 Neons in my 150 and I need ALOT more for the look I want.


Yeah it really is weird about them! Makes me glad I have a good amount of fry from them! 

I did the aquaadvisor and it seemed to indicate about 200 tetras to be like 120% of stocking. LOL 

I keep wondering where all my 40+ Kerri's are and then I realize at feeding time as they group all together. 

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## chayos00

Calling on my CO2 reactor knowledgeable folks! I'm putting together the one I'm building and wondering if you guys think it would make any difference where I place the input of the CO2 which is the T fitting with the stainless steel hose barb fittings. I have three pics of where I was thinking of putting it. 

First pic is right before the 4" reactor. Second pic is right before the elbow fitting. And the third pic is before the ball valve. Last pic is just an overall design of the reactor. 

Thoughts? Does it really matter? My thoughts are right after the ball valve.




































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## chayos00

Here's a dry fit picture. Turns out the little PVC glue I have thickened since last used a year ago.









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## Williak

chayos00 said:


> Here's a dry fit picture. Turns out the little PVC glue I have thickened since last used a year ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




This is where I’d leave the barb. Just before it enters the reactor. 

Are you adding anything to the inside? Bioballs? Lava rock?



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## chayos00

Williak said:


> This is where I’d leave the barb. Just before it enters the reactor.
> 
> Are you adding anything to the inside? Bioballs? Lava rock?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope it's gonna be wide open. I kept reading about how people would talk about how mulm would build in bioballs so I decided against doing them. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Nope it's gonna be wide open. I kept reading about how people would talk about how mulm would build in bioballs so I decided against doing them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Flow rates and volume in that specific area would need to be figured out, but if you could place it inside the reactor body near the top that would be your safest best. In your current setup it's possible it could back feed and it's going to have to be pressed into the reactor by the filter outlet. Given the small area where it is being injected it would have a higher pressure... in the body it is immediately exposed to a higher volume of water and even could safely accumulate in a small pocket near the inlet to the reactor without being able to build up enough pressure to enter the tubes.... Does that make sense?? I don't know the actual likelihood that you would have issues, but they are MUCH higher than if you tapped the body... or just used a T section near the top.... it's such a minute adjustment why not just circumvent the POSSIBLE issues?? Physics plagues my mind... and the high pressure given the amount of gas to feed that tank coupled with ever decreasing flow from buildup in the filter... sealed system and all... 

As to aqua advisor.... LOL 200 Tetras total?? In a 125?! I've got to have close to 300... and I plan on adding at least 100 more total. I had to increase my nitrate dosing a few weeks ago.. to full EI, but still.


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## chayos00

With moving it to where it's going to live, the best bet for me was to put the CO2 T fitting right at the input to the 3/4" to 4" adapter. I also had to use some 90's where I didn't want to, but again gotta make it work for the space.









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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Flow rates and volume in that specific area would need to be figured out, but if you could place it inside the reactor body near the top that would be your safest best. In your current setup it's possible it could back feed and it's going to have to be pressed into the reactor by the filter outlet. Given the small area where it is being injected it would have a higher pressure... in the body it is immediately exposed to a higher volume of water and even could safely accumulate in a small pocket near the inlet to the reactor without being able to build up enough pressure to enter the tubes.... Does that make sense?? I don't know the actual likelihood that you would have issues, but they are MUCH higher than if you tapped the body... or just used a T section near the top.... it's such a minute adjustment why not just circumvent the POSSIBLE issues?? Physics plagues my mind... and the high pressure given the amount of gas to feed that tank coupled with ever decreasing flow from buildup in the filter... sealed system and all...
> 
> As to aqua advisor.... LOL 200 Tetras total?? In a 125?! I've got to have close to 300... and I plan on adding at least 100 more total. I had to increase my nitrate dosing a few weeks ago.. to full EI, but still.


Initially I didn't follow so I figured I would come back to it another day. I do follow you now. If I do ever have issues with where I am injecting I could always get a T fitting one day and cut the body to splice it in around 1/4-1/2 way down. However if I have to rework anything I may just go to 3" pipe as I'm about 1/4-1/2" too wide to fit behind my tank. Didn't quite account for the T fitting diameter and the baseboard behind the tank.... Gonna measure it preciously and see if some strategic sanding will help me get it to fit behind the tank while sitting on the floor. 

However I am currently leak checking it to make sure that I don't have any issues with it before setting it on the ground. I did discover that I had to use the CO2 injection Port as a air bleed to fill the reactor. 

As far as for the number of tetras yeah I think you are right I was a bit low on the 200 number and something in the 300-400 range should be pushing it on stocking. 










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## chayos00

So I thought I had added serpae tetra's a bit ago, however after reading over and googling what his Pristella tetras are, I realized that I didn't get what I wanted when I went up to Phoenix to the LFS there. Probably didn't help that the brand new guy was helping me.... Oh well, neither of us knew better. I was wondering when these fish were going to get their red coloration to their body and now I know they never will. LOL Durrrr......

Bump: So I thought I had added serpae tetra's a bit ago, however after reading over and googling what his Pristella tetras are, I realized that I didn't get what I wanted when I went up to Phoenix to the LFS there. Probably didn't help that the brand new guy was helping me.... Oh well, neither of us knew better. I was wondering when these fish were going to get their red coloration to their body and now I know they never will. LOL Durrrr......


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## riggles17

Found the thread, great tank pal!


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## chayos00

riggles17 said:


> Found the thread, great tank pal!


Thanks! For others, I took a video from my phone to show Riggles17 my tank lights. 

https://youtu.be/oG2OVFBFYgU

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## riggles17

chayos00 said:


> riggles17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found the thread, great tank pal!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! For others, I took a video from my phone to show Riggles17 my tank lights.
> 
> https://youtu.be/oG2OVFBFYgU
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

...well, you've sold me. I can't wait to see what the light is like over white sand and with my fish in the tank. It's a wonderful so you have going. 

So, do you think you have control over the colors well enough to get up to an 8000k feel, as well as close to 4000k? Just wondering how far you can push this.

I would like to replicate what you've done because I love the look, but I'm wondering what a greater number of Veros, smaller Veros (8 or 13), would be like. Coupling the increased number of Veros with corresponding color lights, more clusters I bet would be mind blowing. 

The neons are literally glowing, but the light doesn't come through the video at all blue. I love the color temperature, and the plants look fantastic. 

I honestly can't put into words how awesome that was to see. Nerding out 100% over a DIY fish light lol.

Thanks again for the video, and it was awesome watching in 4K.

PS. Riggles17 is aka Rick, pleasure to meet you


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## chayos00

riggles17 said:


> ...well, you've sold me. I can't wait to see what the light is like over white sand and with my fish in the tank. It's a wonderful so you have going.
> 
> So, do you think you have control over the colors well enough to get up to an 8000k feel, as well as close to 4000k? Just wondering how far you can push this.
> 
> *I honestly don't know for sure, I would imagine if you didn't go with the 2.7k Vero's that would help, but never tried to get a brighter blue hue, however I believe you could probably get it closer by going with more of the blues, vs the reds.*
> 
> I would like to replicate what you've done because I love the look, but I'm wondering what a greater number of Veros, smaller Veros (8 or 13), would be like. Coupling the increased number of Veros with corresponding color lights, more clusters I bet would be mind blowing.
> 
> *Since I've already got mine built, I am curious now too if that is the plan that you are going to go with! Can't wait to see yours!*
> 
> The neons are literally glowing, but the light doesn't come through the video at all blue. I love the color temperature, and the plants look fantastic.
> 
> I honestly can't put into words how awesome that was to see. Nerding out 100% over a DIY fish light lol.
> 
> Thanks again for the video, and it was awesome watching in 4K.
> 
> PS. Riggles17 is aka Rick, pleasure to meet you


Part of why I decided to try my cell phone was as it does 4k where my DSLR only does 1080P. Plus just easier to do vs playing around with connecting and disconnecting drives to get the files and then upload them. No worries, if we didn't nerd out about fish tank stuff, we wouldn't be posting our business on the internet about it! LOL 

I'm glad you think the plants look good, but I don't quite so much. Seems that plant growth for me has really dropped off after I had to tune down the lights due to the algae I was getting. So that's also part of why I'm wanting to go CO2 so I can get plants growing better again, and hopefully with less algae (I'm sure it's going to cover my tank at first till I get things dialed in though). 

Nice to meet you too Rick, I'm Jason.


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## The Dude1

Your tank looks REALLY good!! If you still want the red I think red phantoms look nicer... quite frankly I think female black phantoms look better than both (they are a really cool dark red). Pristilla's are pretty in their own way once they mature and get the bright red tails. They are also the hardiest in my experience.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Your tank looks REALLY good!! If you still want the red I think red phantoms look nicer... quite frankly I think female black phantoms look better than both (they are a really cool dark red). Pristilla's are pretty in their own way once they mature and get the bright red tails. They are also the hardiest in my experience.


Yeah I had thought those Pristilla's were Serpa tetras..... They are a disappointment to me, as they don't quite have the color I thought I was gonna get. Gonna have to see if I can sell the to someone or back to an LFS once I get some space in my QT rack. 

Speaking of which the Kerri's have breed some forr and I moved about 6-8 Glowlight Tetras out to breed as I've got some really fat ladies that have to be loaded with eggs. I've lost two big ladies over the last year to what I suspect of being too full of eggs so might as well give them a shot. 

Plus I picked up 5 more Panda Cories in another QT tank. Which I'm going to move ALL of my Cories into as I think some still have fin rot issues. So gonna medicate them all at once to be sure. 

Thanks for the compliment on the tank! 

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## The Dude1

Are you running RODI in all of your tanks or just your breeding tanks. I've got plenty of Neons / Cardinals now, but I'd like to try Rummynose. They require the same water, but I would have to acclimate them from my regular harder higher pH water to the very soft low pH of my breeding tanks.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Are you running RODI in all of your tanks or just your breeding tanks. I've got plenty of Neons / Cardinals now, but I'd like to try Rummynose. They require the same water, but I would have to acclimate them from my regular harder higher pH water to the very soft low pH of my breeding tanks.


Yeah I have RO mix in all of my tanks. The only one I don't is a 100g tank out in the garage with some local fish species. I would do a slow acclimation to avoid shocking them, that's how I have done them from my breeding to display tank, did numerous small water changes over a month to match water parameters. 

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## ChrisX

@chayos00,

Have you ever tried your lights without the colors? Compared to the wattage of the veros 18s, it seems like they would add very little. Do they make a difference? Tank looks amazing.


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> @chayos00,
> 
> Have you ever tried your lights without the colors? Compared to the wattage of the veros 18s, it seems like they would add very little. Do they make a difference? Tank looks amazing.


I did do just the Vero's at one point when playing with the lights. I use the colors more to to "tune" the light coloring. But yeah they can make a difference for sure. If I max out the individual color in the grouping with two color LEDs that's 6w of color, but yeah doesn't sound like much but it is. I'll have to try playing around with the LEDs this week as now you have me curious to show it and get pictures. 

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## chayos00

So thanks to some saved up gift money from Christmas and my birthday that just passed Ive got a nice "fish fund" going on now! I've ordered a Jebao DP-4 dosing pump and a triple 1.5L dosing container for the fertilizer that I'll have to get back into dosing with CO2. 

So along with that I'll be able to get the 20lb bottles for CO2 just as soon as I can get to the place after work one day. 

Then I'll have to build me the RO water change system I want to make in the garage. 5g buckets is getting old. LOL

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Yeah I have RO mix in all of my tanks. The only one I don't is a 100g tank out in the garage with some local fish species. I would do a slow acclimation to avoid shocking them, that's how I have done them from my breeding to display tank, did numerous small water changes over a month to match water parameters.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


So you changed the parameters in an entire tank over a months time?


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> So you changed the parameters in an entire tank over a months time?


For my display tank it was more like about 2-3 months. But in one of my 20g tanks yes about a month. But that was tanking the fish from a 4.5ph up to 7ish. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## The Dude1

If I were to want to breed Rummynose... would you suggest bringing the breeding tank up to their current parameters and then bringing it back done with them in it or any chance they might acclimate through drip?? It took a long time and alot of effort to get to those parameters.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> If I were to want to breed Rummynose... would you suggest bringing the breeding tank up to their current parameters and then bringing it back done with them in it or any chance they might acclimate through drip?? It took a long time and alot of effort to get to those parameters.


What I would personally do is the longer acclimation if the water specs are that different. But again that's just my 2¢. What are the specs of the tank they are in? I assume tap water? 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> What I would personally do is the longer acclimation if the water specs are that different. But again that's just my 2¢. What are the specs of the tank they are in? I assume tap water?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Ya. 7.4 pre C02. 6.5 post C02. Pretty hard as well


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Ya. 7.4 pre C02. 6.5 post C02. Pretty hard as well


That's a decent tap pH! Compared to my 8.0+ tap water LOL Must have a low alkalinity even though it's pretty hard. But if you are able to move them to a seperate breeding tank, you can start by giving them pure RO water changes to bring your water parameters (GH) down to meet what they need, which I pasted below. As you get into the range the fish need for GH, then I would introduce peat moss into the tank to bring on the blackwater conditions they need, which also now due to the use of RO water this will allow the tannic acid to start dropping the ph levels for the fish to breed in. This is what I did in my Kerri tetra tank, which has more babies popping up again now. I basically have a layer of just peat moss on the bottom of the tank along with frogbit covering the top of the tank to give them the shade they need for their eggs (some fish need it darker for their eggs for some reason). Which it looks like this species is the same with needing dark for the eggs. I'm going to try adding a spawning mop into this tank and see what this does for these guys. 

Hemigrammus rhodostomus (Rummy-nose tetra) ? Seriously Fish

_"The water should be soft and acidic in the range pH 5.5-6.5, gH 1-5, with a temperature of around 80-84°F. Filtering the water through peat is useful, as is the use of RO water. A small air-powered sponge filter bubbling away very gently is all that is needed in terms of filtration."_


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## chayos00

I HAVE CO2!! Woot Woot

So I got all the rest of the parts I needed shipped in and got the 20lb tank picked up from Matheson Gas for just shy of $200 with refills being low $20's after tax. I picked that up on Monday, however got like a 24hr flu that started that night and went all day Tuesday, when I had parts delivered for the setup. But you know you feel like poo when you don't even care or have the energy to check the delivery. So Wednesday night I set things up and have some issues with tubing and zip ties holding things on. So I just shut things down and say screw it till today. So I decided to ditch the zip ties as they seemed to be helping to cause some air leaks. I used an old trick from my nitro RC car days and cut about a 1/4" of tubing and shove it over the tubing as a way to tighten down the tubing. (how many times can you say tubing in a sentence?) However one check valve keeps popping off if I up the pressure about 15-20psi on the regulator, so I have to back the pressure down to about 10psi to keep things on. I then add a second piece of 1/4" tubing as I heard it pop off after about 30 minutes, so far the doubled up tubing as a "clamp" is working. However I haven't upped my pressure above the 10ish PSI. I added more details than I can recall in the 4 minute video below if you want to take a look at what I'm seeing. 

I've got 500ml of water sitting aside to off gas for 24hrs to see what my pH numbers are going to be. Based upon what I tested about 5hrs after pulling it out I've got a 0.6pH drop so far, so at least I know it's working. 

CO2 Setup Video


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## chayos00

Alright, so I have figured out a little bit of my issues. As my check valves seem to have a small arm for the tubing I had to use a pair of 1/4" strips of the tubing that was stretched over top of one another on the tubing. This has gotten it where I can get my regulator pressure to get up to at least 20-25psi and hold. I have it set for about 20psi now which is holding pressure better than when around 10psi. However this Tygon tubing is either too soft or thin to hold up at this pressure. Through my reading online while trying to find CO2 tubing this isn't normally a problem as the needle valves is where the flow is regulated and with our flow meters that's not the case to the line from the regulator to the meter balloons with pressure (at least for me it is). So I set the needle valve (with the flow meter wide open) to about 40-60cc/min and then regulated the flow down to about 10cc/min. Seemed like when my needle valve was wide open I couldn't get steady pressure and thus flow from the meter. 

Again this unsteady pressures make me question my choice of cheap single stage regulators. 

As far as the reactor. I have my DC pump feeding it right on top of the sump pump and the return from the reactor going right into the sump pump feeding the DT. Now I'm getting micro bubbles all over the inside of the tank. I have run the reactor pump at 30, 50, 75, & 100% and it doesn't seem to matter, I still get bubbles. When I do run it at say 30% I can hear air gurgling around the reactor, but turned up some I can't. I figured there was no way in hell there would be bubbles coming out from the reactor, granted I can't see any coming out the hose, but when I moved my hose return to just before the the final poret foam, I get no air in the tank. Just thought of this now, but could it be the fact that I'm blowing this litterally right on the sump suction causing cavitation? I'll play with that tomorrow. 

But once I get the CO2 figured out, on to dealing with ferts and then playing with my lights. Just want to be able to have the tank a bit brighter. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

So it seems running the 20 psi has kept me steady for my output now of about 20cc/min. So that's a plus there! I went up from 10cc/min to 20cc/min as I was seeing about a half a point ph drop.

I just tested things, I did a WC on Friday and just now tested the tank water I captured to off gas. That tested at 7.6ph with a Alkalinity test (using my hot tub kit) at 20-30ppm, which converts to dKH using 17.86 to divide by. So I should have 1.11-1.39dKH in the tank. Based on the following link's ph to kh to co2 chart, I should be shooting for about 6.0-6.2ph for about a 30ppm co2 level. Is this correct in my reading? As I initially thought it was supposed to be about a 1pt pH drop, not about 1.4-1.6 points of pH for the ideal about 30ppm of CO2 based on my dKH.

Based on the chart, I'm about 0.8-1.1ppm CO2 off gassed and 6-9ppm injected. 

I'll try testing the pH level a few more times to see if it drops any lower for me. 

Water Specs:
Off gas water (collected Friday post water change after an hour of water mixing) - 7.6pH
Tank water @ about 4-5hrs post co2 start - 6.7pH
Alkalinity 20-25ppm - 1.11-1.39dKH
TDS 115


***EDIT*** - Seems more reading about CO2 ppm levels really does change based upon what your dKH levels are, so I don't think I have any more questions about that. LOL


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## chayos00

Based upon Greggz post about his DIY Micro mix, I ordered the same mix of fertz he did and will soon get that aspect covered in my tank. Then back to dosing again, which I haven't done since I lowered my lighting levels in my tank months back.


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> So it seems running the 20 psi has kept me steady for my output now of about 20cc/min. So that's a plus there! I went up from 10cc/min to 20cc/min as I was seeing about a half a point ph drop.
> 
> I just tested things, I did a WC on Friday and just now tested the tank water I captured to off gas. That tested at 7.6ph with a Alkalinity test (using my hot tub kit) at 20-30ppm, which converts to dKH using 17.86 to divide by. So I should have 1.11-1.39dKH in the tank. Based on the following link's ph to kh to co2 chart, I should be shooting for about 6.0-6.2ph for about a 30ppm co2 level. Is this correct in my reading? As I initially thought it was supposed to be about a 1pt pH drop, not about 1.4-1.6 points of pH for the ideal about 30ppm of CO2 based on my dKH.
> 
> Based on the chart, I'm about 0.8-1.1ppm CO2 off gassed and 6-9ppm injected.
> 
> I'll try testing the pH level a few more times to see if it drops any lower for me.
> 
> Water Specs:
> Off gas water (collected Friday post water change after an hour of water mixing) - 7.6pH
> Tank water @ about 4-5hrs post co2 start - 6.7pH
> Alkalinity 20-25ppm - 1.11-1.39dKH
> TDS 115
> 
> 
> ***EDIT*** - Seems more reading about CO2 ppm levels really does change based upon what your dKH levels are, so I don't think I have any more questions about that. LOL


You've got a lot going on in that post.

First of all, there is no possible way your degassed pH is 7.6 and your KH is around 1. Those numbers don't add up. Degassed water will still contain some CO2, generally around 3 to 5 ppm. So if your degassed ph really is 7.6, your KH is more like 5 or 6. One or both of those is wrong.

Second, I wouldn't trust any test reading except that of a calibrated pH probe. None of those tests are accurate enough for our purposes. 

My advice would be to forget the chart. Get familiar with a CO2 calculator, like in RotalaButterly or Zorfox.

Then get a pH meter with some calibration fluid, and fully degas some water. I would leave a glass out for at least three days. It can take that long or more to fully degas. Once the pH stops rising for a day, then you know it's fully degassed. It's important to get it right. I still take a glass out after a water change and let it sit out all week, then test it. That's how important it is to me to be correct.

I would also get a KH test kit. It helps to verify and make sure nothing wonky is going on. Your degassed reading and KH should have the correct relationship, or something isn't right, like your current calculations right now. 

Once you get that right, start by shooting for a 1 point pH drop. Many, including myself, get closer to a 1.3 to 1.4 pH drop. It all depends on your goals, the type of plants you have, your lighting, and fert dosing. I drive my tank hard, so peak drop is about 1.35 for me. What the equates to in CO2 ppm is meaningless. It's just what works. Any much more, and the fish start to show some stress. Any much less, and plants are less happy.

That's all part of the fine tuning process, which just takes some time.

But again, getting it right means a great deal. Take the time to get it right. It's one of the most important things you can control.


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## ChrisX

Huh? My tap is ph 8.1, and kh 2. You mean thats not possible? I add co2, ph in tank is 6.5. How much co2? Acc to chart its 45ppm+.


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## Greggz

ChrisX said:


> Huh? My tap is ph 8.1, and kh 2. You mean thats not possible? I add co2, ph in tank is 6.5. How much co2? Acc to chart its 45ppm+.


If your pH is 8.1, then your KH is not 2. If your KH is really 2, then your degassed pH is more like about 7.1 or 7.2.

And if your pH really is 8.1, then your KH should be more like 17 to 19.

One of those is wrong. 

For instance, my remineralized RO water is consistently KH 2.5 and degassed pH is consistently 7.20. And that makes sense. I used to keep it at KH 4, and pH was consistently 7.40, and that makes sense.

And if you are truly dropping from 8.1 to 6.5, then I would expect any fish to be in extreme duress.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> You've got a lot going on in that post.
> 
> First of all, there is no possible way your degassed pH is 7.6 and your KH is around 1. Those numbers don't add up. Degassed water will still contain some CO2, generally around 3 to 5 ppm. So if your degassed ph really is 7.6, your KH is more like 5 or 6. One or both of those is wrong.
> 
> Second, I wouldn't trust any test reading except that of a calibrated pH probe. None of those tests are accurate enough for our purposes.
> 
> My advice would be to forget the chart. Get familiar with a CO2 calculator, like in RotalaButterly or Zorfox.
> 
> Then get a pH meter with some calibration fluid, and fully degas some water. I would leave a glass out for at least three days. It can take that long or more to fully degas. Once the pH stops rising for a day, then you know it's fully degassed. It's important to get it right. I still take a glass out after a water change and let it sit out all week, then test it. That's how important it is to me to be correct.
> 
> I would also get a KH test kit. It helps to verify and make sure nothing wonky is going on. Your degassed reading and KH should have the correct relationship, or something isn't right, like your current calculations right now.
> 
> Once you get that right, start by shooting for a 1 point pH drop. Many, including myself, get closer to a 1.3 to 1.4 pH drop. It all depends on your goals, the type of plants you have, your lighting, and fert dosing. I drive my tank hard, so peak drop is about 1.35 for me. What the equates to in CO2 ppm is meaningless. It's just what works. Any much more, and the fish start to show some stress. Any much less, and plants are less happy.
> 
> That's all part of the fine tuning process, which just takes some time.
> 
> But again, getting it right means a great deal. Take the time to get it right. It's one of the most important things you can control.


Thank you for your response! So first of all the pH meter I'm using is one I got a little bit ago, it's an Appraisal PH20. This one is MUCH more stable on it's calibration vs the old cheap one I had. I aspo did calibrate it using the 4.0 and 7.0 solutions just before doing the tests. I left each solution sit for 5 minutes before calibration and the water tests each time. So I would say those readings are accurate for the pH. 

As far as the kH readings the test I was using like I said is the one from my hot tub, as I have a GH one from there too. Granted I've never made a calibration solution to test the alkalinity test kit, but it's a Taylor made titration style test that is used wide across the spa and pool world, so I really do hope it is quite accurate! 

I just hunted the net to find city done alkalinity tests but couldn't find anything. However their general hardness reading is about spot on with what my hot tub test kit says. 

As far as my degassed water, I dumped it back in the tank about 4pm today, whoops! But it didn't really change between the reading yesterday, but I recalibrated the meter today. I was thinking my pH ought to be lower too. However this king about it my hot tub water is kind of the same way where I have a really low alkalinity to keep my pH levels down as I have to use a bunch of acid to drop the all just to get a pH of around 7.6-7.8. Then when the all is down around 10-30 does my pH stay in the 7.7ish range. This Arizona water is weird! LOL 

For the pH/dKH/CO2 reading I noticed I do actually have the Zorfox tool on my PC and it was saying for that 30ppm reading I should be 6.0-6.2pH for the low dKH levels I tested. 

Either way it will be nice once I can get my RO station setup, so I can fully make my water vs doing a WC with about 25-30 of RO and a 5g bucket of tap. Then I can control exactly what's in my water. LOL

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX

Greggz said:


> If your pH is 8.1, then your KH is not 2. If your KH is really 2, then your degassed pH is more like about 7.1 or 7.2.
> 
> And if your pH really is 8.1, then your KH should be more like 17 to 19.
> 
> One of those is wrong.
> 
> For instance, my remineralized RO water is consistently KH 2.5 and degassed pH is consistently 7.20. And that makes sense. I used to keep it at KH 4, and pH was consistently 7.40, and that makes sense.
> 
> And if you are truly dropping from 8.1 to 6.5, then I would expect any fish to be in extreme duress.


This is worth drilling down on, it goes against everything I've read this past year on the forum. In my tank, according to the API pH test kit, there is this level of drop 8.1->6.5. If I turn off the CO2, within 12 hours, the pH is back to 7.6, and 24 hours later 8.0.

I am also constantly aerating the water. I was of understanding that CO2 does not hurt fish, its the lack of O2. Prior to this level of aeration, the fish did get agitated with this level of CO2. Instead of lowering CO2, I increased O2. Rather than use surface agitation, I'm using a venturi.

The way you describe it, there is a hard and fast relationship between KH, pH, and CO2 in the water. Period. 

You are suggesting that either the pH test is wrong, the kH test is wrong, or the water has significant CO2 out of the tap.

I really don't know how to process your information. Its like you are speaking greek.

This is not that uncommon. Many people like myself have described low kH and high pH from their tap water. If my kH is much higher than the API test kit says, then I would need to lower my pH much more with Co2, the pH would swing from.... 8.1 -> 5.8?? That can't be right.

IOW.... if there was a STRICT relationship between kH and pH, then no one would need a kH test kit. We would just let our tap water degass, test the pH, and we would know the kH. And injecting CO2 would be the simplest thing in the world. Just inject to a specific pH and CO2 ppm would be known.


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## vanish

I did a similar thing as you with my needle valve / flow meter (as in not opening the needle valve wide open), but not because of tubing slips, but rather as a safety net. I figure if something were to somehow happen to the flow meter ( bump it, curious child, I dunno exactly ) then rather than some crazy amount of co2 getting injected in and quickly killing my fish, it would be a bit slower and I might have time to catch it.

Now, you mentioned unsteady pressure. Are you seeing that on the regulator or the flow meter? My flow meter value bobbles around it a bit, say a range of 3 cc/min. It seems to have something to do with how much gas it in the reactor, and whether there is any back pressure on the flow meter from water in the reactor. One other thing I noticed with the flow meter, I have to give it a few minutes to "settle" after making a change. Once again, I think it has to do with the pressure in the reactor. So, when I adjust it, it might temporarily go up 10 cc/min, but a few minutes that initial burst, it evens out to only a 3 cc/min adjustment.

I've never heard of other people having to do this, but this is how it works in my setup.


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## The Dude1

I don't know... but doesn't hardness relate to Ca and dissolved minerals in the water? Ca by itself is a cation (positive charge) pH is a measure of hydronium ions (also cations) dissolved in solution. It certainly makes sense that there is some relation from what I have seen from my tap to getting water down to low pH for breeding. At 7.4 to 7.6 my hardness was like 17 I think. Below 6 it was like 2. Id love to read about the relationship. It makes sense... all of the hard water I have ever read about carried a high hardness. All of the soft water had very little hardness.
Aside from that, Chayos can you check out my breeding journal and help me out with some quick questions? They definitely spawned and from the looks of the bellies it was a lot of eggs, but there were problems. I'm not sure which way to go from here. See what happens or try again.


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## chayos00

vanish said:


> I did a similar thing as you with my needle valve / flow meter (as in not opening the needle valve wide open), but not because of tubing slips, but rather as a safety net. I figure if something were to somehow happen to the flow meter ( bump it, curious child, I dunno exactly ) then rather than some crazy amount of co2 getting injected in and quickly killing my fish, it would be a bit slower and I might have time to catch it.
> 
> Now, you mentioned unsteady pressure. Are you seeing that on the regulator or the flow meter? My flow meter value bobbles around it a bit, say a range of 3 cc/min. It seems to have something to do with how much gas it in the reactor, and whether there is any back pressure on the flow meter from water in the reactor. One other thing I noticed with the flow meter, I have to give it a few minutes to "settle" after making a change. Once again, I think it has to do with the pressure in the reactor. So, when I adjust it, it might temporarily go up 10 cc/min, but a few minutes that initial burst, it evens out to only a 3 cc/min adjustment.
> 
> I've never heard of other people having to do this, but this is how it works in my setup.


I tried the needle valve wide open and it would blow off, but what you mention about a safety net makes sense, I didn't think about that! Plus if a line does ever come off it's not a wide open stream of CO2 leaking into my house, it's a only X number of CC's/min. 

For the fluctuations, it was the regulator pressure, like it would be 10psi then drop down to 5psi or less and then eventually back up. However now that I've got it around 20psi the pressure output seems much more stable now. But I've got another check valve that the tubing keeps wanting to slip off of. So I ordered a few things last night.

As some people I know talked about the bubble counter the regulator came with being junk, I ordered a $12 glass one that is a clone of the ADA Beetle counter. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005CT8PYW/ As well as Aquatek's CO2 tubing in hopes that it works better for me and their brass check valves as the one I got just seemed to have undersized connections to them. For poo and giggles, I also ordered a drop checker (I was going to do 2, but looks like I goofed and didn't order two like I planned for putting one on each side of the tank.)


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## Greggz

ChrisX said:


> This is worth drilling down on, it goes against everything I've read this past year on the forum. In my tank, according to the API pH test kit, there is this level of drop 8.1->6.5. If I turn off the CO2, within 12 hours, the pH is back to 7.6, and 24 hours later 8.0.


Yeah that could all be. Then again, I wouldn’t trust the API kit vs. a calibrated pH probe. I have tested them side by side many times over the years, and the API is a rough estimate at best most times. Certainly not accurate enough for our purposes. 

Now could you actually have a 1.6 pH drop? Sure. But in most cases, and I know for sure in my case, I would see some significant distress from the fish.



ChrisX said:


> I am also constantly aerating the water. I was of understanding that CO2 does not hurt fish, its the lack of O2. Prior to this level of aeration, the fish did get agitated with this level of CO2. Instead of lowering CO2, I increased O2. Rather than use surface agitation, I'm using a venturi.


Somewhat true. CO2 can harm fish, even in heavily oxygenated water. They are not mutually exclusive, but trust me if I wanted to gas my tank, even with loads of aeration, it can be done. I’ve come right to the edge before. More oxygen will allow you to pump in more CO2, to a point. And I do the same thing, heavy aeration and heavy CO2. But in my tank once I get past about a 1.4 drop, I notice right away the effect on the fish. 



ChrisX said:


> The way you describe it, there is a hard and fast relationship between KH, pH, and CO2 in the water. Period.


First of all Chris, I am not a scientist. I base most of what I say on years and years of experience testing. And I have found that in general there is a linear relationship between KH,pH,CO2. 

Now maybe there is something going on with your water that I don’t understand. And I’m all for drilling down, and I can always learn something new. So anyone who can shed more light on this, I’d be glad to learn more.

But in general, my understanding is that you can’t get all the CO2 out of the water. When it’s degassed, it reaches equilibrium with the atmosphere. From what I have read, that is somewhere around 3ppm outdoors, and more like about 4 to 5 ppm in most homes. 

That has always tested out perfectly for me. I can take either the pH reading, or the KH reading, and pretty much derive one from the other. And it always tests out correctly. For instance, if my KH is 2.5, then my pH will be about 7.2, that calculates to 4.75 ppm (using Zorfox CO2/pH/KH calculator). That's within reason and this is not done in a lab, and other factors could be contributing.

In the example above, a KH of 2 and a pH of 8.1 would calculate out to .48ppm CO2. Now maybe someone can explain how that is possible, but I’ve never seen it (and fully admitting I could be wrong). At a KH of 8.1, based on my experience I would expect the KH to be about 18 (4.3ppm) to 20 (4.78ppm). And in fact, that’s exactly about what my well water would test out consistently before I went to RO.



ChrisX said:


> You are suggesting that either the pH test is wrong, the kH test is wrong, or the water has significant CO2 out of the tap.


Again, maybe I am completely wrong, but it seems to me one of the tests is not correct. At least I have personally never see readings like that. And yes, tap water can have significant CO2 in it. That is not uncommon. In fact, I have found it to be good practice to age/degas tap tank water before taking readings, so that it stabilizes. Chemicals can have a dramatic effect. 

For instance, when I dose my RO water, I add K2CO3. When I first add it, my holding tank water jumps to a pH of over 10. KH only moves up to 2.5. But after a night with an air stone and circulation, it's always right back to 7.2 in the morning. I don't know the science, but I know it happens every time.



ChrisX said:


> This is not that uncommon. Many people like myself have described low kH and high pH from their tap water. If my kH is much higher than the API test kit says, then I would need to lower my pH much more with Co2, the pH would swing from.... 8.1 -> 5.8?? That can't be right.


Boy Chris this gets very interesting, doesn’t it? Maybe we need to start a new thread with thoughts on this subject, as I already feel bad getting into this in the OP’s thread. (Sorry Chayos00!).

If it were me, I would base my pH drop off of the degassed pH (very well degassed and accurately measured pH). 
And keep in mind this is not an exact science. It’s more of an approximation, and a place to start.

For instance, my current readings after buffering my RO water is KH 2.5, pH 7.2. I drop my pH to 5.85, which would calculate my CO2 to be 106.28. Now is my CO2 really 106.28ppm?? I doubt it. But I do know that any much more and my fish become lethargic and go to the surface. That’s all I really need to know.

And by the way, while not perfect, a drop checker can be your friend too. I usually keep mine filled, mostly to have a visual indicator that all my whacky math is actually playing out. At peak late in the day, mine is pretty much yellow. If I walked by and saw it was green, well I would begin checking everything to see what is going on.

So anyway, I guess I should have not been so cut and dry in my assessment. I was just basing it on what I have experienced, and I know for sure there must be those that could provide a much more detailed explanation. I'm all for learning more.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I don't know... but doesn't hardness relate to Ca and dissolved minerals in the water? Ca by itself is a cation (positive charge) pH is a measure of hydronium ions (also cations) dissolved in solution. It certainly makes sense that there is some relation from what I have seen from my tap to getting water down to low pH for breeding. At 7.4 to 7.6 my hardness was like 17 I think. Below 6 it was like 2. Id love to read about the relationship. It makes sense... all of the hard water I have ever read about carried a high hardness. All of the soft water had very little hardness.
> Aside from that, Chayos can you check out my breeding journal and help me out with some quick questions? They definitely spawned and from the looks of the bellies it was a lot of eggs, but there were problems. I'm not sure which way to go from here. See what happens or try again.


Good point on the Ca, as I'm about 200ppm hardness or 11.1dGH tap. I'll have to test what my GH is again in the tank water. 

Headed over for a peak.


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## chayos00

@Greggz - I checked my calcium hardness and it was at 50ppm, or about 2.8dGH. So far my tank water that is degassing is coming in at 7.6pH with my low dKH. 

So I ordered CO2 tubing from Aquatek, along with their check valve. I also got the bubble counter (click here) in today too. So I swapped out the CO2 tubing, check valves, and bubble counter and have it all in play now. As it's a firm tubing I had to use a heat gun to get the tubing pushed on everything, so I think it's going to hold vs that Tygon tubing. I was able to up my regulator pressure to 40psi and lets hope that it holds rock steady now! LOL I still only set the needle valve open to about 90-100cc/min just as a backup max for CO2. 

Seems like my Bacopa and my Phoenix moss seems to already be sprouting new growth from them. Still no fert dosing, as they are in the mail.

Bump: @Greggz - I checked my calcium hardness and it was at 50ppm, or about 2.8dGH. So far my tank water that is degassing is coming in at 7.6pH with my low dKH. 

So I ordered CO2 tubing from Aquatek, along with their check valve. I also got the bubble counter (click here) in today too. So I swapped out the CO2 tubing, check valves, and bubble counter and have it all in play now. As it's a firm tubing I had to use a heat gun to get the tubing pushed on everything, so I think it's going to hold vs that Tygon tubing. I was able to up my regulator pressure to 40psi and lets hope that it holds rock steady now! LOL I still only set the needle valve open to about 90-100cc/min just as a backup max for CO2. 

Seems like my Bacopa and my Phoenix moss seems to already be sprouting new growth from them. Still no fert dosing, as they are in the mail.

Bump: Oh and I forgot to mention, it looks like one of my Glowlight females dropped eggs this morning. I've got only two fat fish in there today. I noticed one picking at the subwassertang and I noticed tiny brown dots on them.


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## chayos00

I might be an idiot.... Those eggs I saw are probably some brineshrimp eggs that got out of the Hatcher I just setup. It's an intank brineshrimp Hatcher, which I can see floating around the tank now. LOL Hope some live food helps get them egg laying.


 








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## chayos00

I'm wondering now if I should pick up a few more of these brine shrimp hatcher for my other breeding tanks. Hmmmm...... Could be good first foods and to help entice the adjust to "get it on" LOL


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> I'm wondering now if I should pick up a few more of these brine shrimp hatcher for my other breeding tanks. Hmmmm...... Could be good first foods and to help entice the adjust to "get it on" LOL


My fish love BBS, but they go berserk for mosquito larvae. I'm not sure if that's an option for you, but my Glowlights got VERY busy after I dropped the daphnia in. Before that, they were all bunched in one little corner not moving. About 3 minutes after I dropped a hefty amount in there (maybe 20 little live larva along with some live blood worms) they were blasting around with the guys racing up to the females shaking like crazy and swimming around them as fast as they could. It was really entertaining. Only watched for a few minutes and then shut the lights off. 
Personally I think for your intended goals raising BBS and doing one big feeding will be better. It encourages a frenzied feeding. They all are chasing one another around.. I don't know if the small steady feeding are good for what you want. For fry absolutely, but not encouraging adults


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> My fish love BBS, but they go berserk for mosquito larvae. I'm not sure if that's an option for you, but my Glowlights got VERY busy after I dropped the daphnia in. Before that, they were all bunched in one little corner not moving. About 3 minutes after I dropped a hefty amount in there (maybe 20 little live larva along with some live blood worms) they were blasting around with the guys racing up to the females shaking like crazy and swimming around them as fast as they could. It was really entertaining. Only watched for a few minutes and then shut the lights off.
> Personally I think for your intended goals raising BBS and doing one big feeding will be better. It encourages a frenzied feeding. They all are chasing one another around.. I don't know if the small steady feeding are good for what you want. For fry absolutely, but not encouraging adults


Hmmm.... interesting, never thought of that! I might have to also get some more live blackworms too. 

I guess I was thinking in the aspect of conditioning them with some live foods for a week talk about getting fish to breed. LOL


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## chayos00

Gotta love it when you've neglected water changes on a tank and then do a nitrate test on a before and after and realize the levels are still high. So water got changed twice and I rinsed out my filters and finally back in the light orange levels. This is on my desktop 10g, part of me is now thinking of tapping my CO2 and bringing some to this tank. LOL









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## chayos00

The other day I did a double, as I call it sump water change (drain and fill of just the sump) as I had a film on the water that didn't go away from agitation as well as a water change earlier in the week. I did a nitrate test and it was in the red, as in the red you can't really give it an API number on the chart LOL. So doing this got my nitrates back down. I've retested my water mix and I'm at the following specs this week LOL

Total Alk - 30ppm = KH of 1.68dKH
GH - 50ppm = 2.79dGH

I've also been playing with my CO2 injection to see where it would take to hit 30ppm. Bringing it up about 10cc/min each day. I'm at about 70cc/min and I've just now hit my target pH based upon my kH level. I'm at 6.2pH on my calibrated pH meter. Using the Zorfox tool my ideal 30ppm of CO2 pH is 6.23. My drop checkers are becoming a lighter green color, which turns out is kind of hard to get a good look at the color. I've found putting my mag float behind it is the best way to get a base color as everything else in the tank is black. 

So far my overnight degassed pH is coming in at 7.2 with the dKH of 1.68 that's about 3ppm, which should be close to what Greggz was saying for the 3-4ppm it ought to be. I'm going camping this weekend and I was wondering if I ought to drop the CO2 flow while I'm out down to like say 30cc/min. Seems like getting the needle set at 70cc/min was kind of touchy, I had to open the needle valve wide open to get stable higher flow rates. Would you guys drop the flow being away from the tank for a few days? Plus with the plants I have is a 30ppm CO2 level really needed? More like 15-20??


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> So far my overnight degassed pH is coming in at 7.2 with the dKH of 1.68 that's about 3ppm, which should be close to what Greggz was saying for the 3-4ppm it ought to be. I'm going camping this weekend and I was wondering if I ought to drop the CO2 flow while I'm out down to like say 30cc/min. Seems like getting the needle set at 70cc/min was kind of touchy, I had to open the needle valve wide open to get stable higher flow rates. Would you guys drop the flow being away from the tank for a few days? Plus with the plants I have is a 30ppm CO2 level really needed? More like 15-20??


Those pH/KH numbers sound right now. 

No need to lower the level while away for a few days. I keep mine steady all the time out of town or not.

Are you using the flow meter or the needle valve to control the flow rate. With mine, I keep the needle valve pretty much wide open, the use the flow meter valve to regulate the flow. Mine stays rock steady. I know Burr's does too. 

I keep my pH drop at 1.35, but tank is heavily planted and driven hard. Depending on tank, optimum drop could be much less. Make changes slowly and keep a close eye on things. You will figure out what is best for YOUR tank.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Those pH/KH numbers sound right now.
> 
> No need to lower the level while away for a few days. I keep mine steady all the time out of town or not.
> 
> Are you using the flow meter or the needle valve to control the flow rate. With mine, I keep the needle valve pretty much wide open, the use the flow meter valve to regulate the flow. Mine stays rock steady. I know Burr's does too.
> 
> I keep my pH drop at 1.35, but tank is heavily planted and driven hard. Depending on tank, optimum drop could be much less. Make changes slowly and keep a close eye on things. You will figure out what is best for YOUR tank.


Okay, sounds good I'll leave the tank setup at about 50ish cc/min vs 70 as I wanted to see what it would take to hit 30ppm CO2. Since I don't have fast growing plants they will probably be fine with say 20ppm CO2. 

For how I'm setting it, when I was under 40cc I had the needle valve tweaked open to give a max of about 100cc/min, which also had the soft tygon tubing that I already replaced. My tubing now is holding the pressure so I actually opened up the needle valve today to max open, plus it seemed to steady out my flow meter at the higher flow. So yes needle valve wide open now. Seems my 100 cc/min meter gives me a fluctuation in reading, like it bounces up and down within 5cc/min at the 50+ range. 

See yall on Monday! I'm out for the weekend.


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## The Dude1

Hopefully you come home to some slim Glowlights!!


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Hopefully you come home to some slim Glowlights!!


Still waiting on those Glowlights..... 

So last night I heard some extra gurgle from my overflow, which happens at times. I boost flow up from the 3rd light it's set to up to the max of 6 to "flush" the pipes and then hit feed mode to flush out the main drain. Normally this clears up whatever is causing the extra in the second drain line. (Bean animal setup uses 3 drains, main, secondary, which just trickles, and the emergency one.) Another bit of preinfo, I topped off the sump the day before to it's max full line when shut off it won't overflow. Little did I realize that little bubble coming out of the reactor pump motor as it shuts off an hour after the CO2 does to clear out any built up gas, was actually from the CO2 that didn't shut off from when I goofed the timer earlier in the day. I was tweaking my cables and tidying things up and somehow noticed the gas wasn't flowing earlier, or the day before, can't recall, but tried to tweak the timer to force it back on but didn't realize I got it to turn on, but the turn off was disabled. So long story short, timer didn't turn off CO2 and displaced the reactors water to the sump causing it to be above the max running line and when I shut the sump pump off it overflowed. Thank goodness I built the stand with a "pan" to hold any overflow! 

But on a plus side my stand is super clean right now. But didn't want to be cleaning that all up from 11:30pm-1am last night....
















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## Phil Edwards

I've done stuff like that before. 

If you're still having trouble with NO3, try not adding it for a while and upping your PO4. That's a trick we used to use to get things balanced out back in the day.


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## chayos00

Phil Edwards said:


> I've done stuff like that before.
> 
> If you're still having trouble with NO3, try not adding it for a while and upping your PO4. That's a trick we used to use to get things balanced out back in the day.


Might have me mixed up there, but As you may have seen in my panorama photo, there's fertz sitting on my desk that I was going to weigh and mix up last night. But it's like you already knew what I was going to post about next. Fertz and ratios. LOL I'll post more when the kids let me get my info together. 

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## monkeyruler90

how do you like using the jebao doser?


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## chayos00

monkeyruler90 said:


> how do you like using the jebao doser?


I haven't had a chance to put in use yet. I need to cut a shelf to be able to place the doser where I can best put it in use. Gonna try to do that tomorrow if my kids let me, as my wife works nights and tonight is one of those nights so she'll be sleeping tomorrow. Joys of when you have toddlers. 

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## chayos00

So it's that time! Mixing my fertilizers talk time. I'm following Greggz for the micros, but was gonna start off with following the EI Daily for macros. Based on using the Zorfox calculator and checking the Rotala Butterfly calculator too, they point to the same dosing numbers for macros PPM. Then using Greggz spreadsheet I came up with what would be my weekly numbers for total added PPM. Anyone see any issues with these? 

I have a 3 chamber 1500mL container to use for the doser I'm going to put into use. The Macros was giving me an insolubility error when I used 1000mL volume with a 20mL dose which would of given 50 days worth, so I tweaked it to 1500mL at 50 mL a day for 30 days worth. Plus that would give it less time to come out of solution and precipitate out in the container. 

Part of me wonders if I should dose a weakened solution of Glut too for an algecide. I still have a gallon of metracide.


Overall









Macro Mix









Micro Mix









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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Now some of these weigh out to mg measurements. For instance, Nickel is just 44 mg in the solution. That’s .044 Grams.
> 
> So a half pound of Nickel Sulfate is 226,796 mg. So that bag is enough to make 5 thousand containers of the dosing solution. So it’s like enough for several lifetimes of keeping a planted tank.
> 
> In fact, with the exception of iron, which is the bulk of the mixture, I don’t think I would have to purchase any of the other items again. With some of these, we could easily share some of the ingredients between us.
> 
> So anyway, I’m not sure if this post would entice someone to start blending their own micros…….or if maybe it could have exactly the opposite effect???? I will say this. I have been dosing a blend like this daily for months now, much more than I ever dosed before, and the tank is doing better than ever. I’m a believer!


Well crap! I made up my DIY Micro mix based on this recipe..... However I totally missed the *MG* reading aspect. I weighed everything in Grams, not milligrams for those correct products. I was wondering why I had SO MUCH MORE weighted ferts in my 1L mixer than my Macros. I was finding that everything had a visual setting out of the micro mix and was a dark green color. I kept stirring it and it's been about 3 hrs and it still hasn't mixed properly. So I come back here and look for Greggz post and realized I'm a blind fool! So now I realize my 2kg scale has a Gram scale of down to 0.0g, so that will never work for some of these small milligram readings. So off to Amazon I go to now buy the correct calibration scale as well as dump this beast of a micro mix. For example, I should have 58.359g total of weight in my mix I fixed. I actually have 433.6g of product in my current incorrect mix. I guess I ought to use up the rest of my Plantex CSM+B for now and remake my micros till I get the correct scale.


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## The Dude1

Better you figured it out now than after weeks of dosing and issues arise.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Better you figured it out now than after weeks of dosing and issues arise.


Very true, at least I was questioning it right from the get go after mixing it up and heck even just looking how much was in the dry mix before I added water. I kept checking my NUMBERS but not the scale of the numbers..... yup, idiot right there LOL

However I've got the bad mixed flushed out, which took some thinking as to how I was going to do it with the other two containers full of their mix. Just seeing how much Plantex CSM+B I have left, as I know it's not a full 1L mix worth.


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## chayos00

The dry daily dosing of CSM-B is 1.7g worth and I have 33.5g of Plantex CSM-B. So that equates to about 19 days worth. So I've got to mix up 385mL of water to make this mix in the EI daily ratio. Once I get my new scale to measure down to 0.001g, I'll be able to actually make my DIY Micro mix now. Ugh.... feel like an idiot today!


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## chayos00

Got my scale in today and my small measuring spoons as I figured the small amounts used, it would be more of a PITA trying to shake a dash out of a 1lb bag. 

But I'm seeing what looks like deficiencies in new leaves of Anubis all around the tank! So good/bad all in one?! LOL So we'll see how things develop with the fertz being auto dosed now. I would imagine it should start to help, but one thing I was never sure of is this. Once the fertz are present for the plants, do they turn back a dark green color, or do I have to trim those troubled leaves off and wait for new growth to see what they do?


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## chayos00

Just remade my Micro's, did it for 1500mL with daily dosing of 50mL, which now I've got about 35g of ferts to mix vs my screw up earlier of 400+. LOL Just as soon as the CSM+B is finished, the DIY mix will be going into play. Which should be about 17-19 days to wait now. Also might as well as premix the dry in my GLA plastic container for the CSM+B.


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Got my scale in today and my small measuring spoons as I figured the small amounts used, it would be more of a PITA trying to shake a dash out of a 1lb bag.
> 
> But I'm seeing what looks like deficiencies in new leaves of Anubis all around the tank! So good/bad all in one?! LOL So we'll see how things develop with the fertz being auto dosed now. I would imagine it should start to help, but one thing I was never sure of is this. Once the fertz are present for the plants, do they turn back a dark green color, or do I have to trim those troubled leaves off and wait for new growth to see what they do?


For most plants you will need to trim the older leaves. They never recover. Only the new growth.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> For most plants you will need to trim the older leaves. They never recover. Only the new growth.


I was afraid of that! LOL Guess I'll have to get my arms we then and clean up the light green spotted leaves. Would be a good time to spot dose for the BBA that is on my anubis.


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> I was afraid of that! LOL Guess I'll have to get my arms we then and clean up the light green spotted leaves. Would be a good time to spot dose for the BBA that is on my anubis.


Depending on how bad you might not want to do it all at once. First time I dipped what I could. Then any leaves with bad BBA were cut off. 2 weeks later (today) any leaves with any damage or ANY BBA were cut off. Been doing some heavy metricide dosing too, but I thi k I might be ahead of it... but I had to trim so many beautiful anubias leaves.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Depending on how bad you might not want to do it all at once. First time I dipped what I could. Then any leaves with bad BBA were cut off. 2 weeks later (today) any leaves with any damage or ANY BBA were cut off. Been doing some heavy metricide dosing too, but I thi k I might be ahead of it... but I had to trim so many beautiful anubias leaves.


Yeah I did spot treatments a bunch in the past using H2O2 and Glut mixed when my PAR levels were twice what they are now. I'll probably go on a two week daily spot treatments till things are back under control. Hope I don't have to resort to chopping like you had to! 

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## chayos00

The bonus of working from home, did a water change before the lights came on and the CO2. But also day one of H2O2 and Glut mixed together and dosed with a 30mL syringe directly on the plant leaves in the water. Doing all of this has sure made for a bubbly water column today. Fingers crossed for quick BBA death! LOL


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> The bonus of working from home, did a water change before the lights came on and the CO2. But also day one of H2O2 and Glut mixed together and dosed with a 30mL syringe directly on the plant leaves in the water. Doing all of this has sure made for a bubbly water column today. Fingers crossed for quick BBA death! LOL


What ratio's are you using? I didn't have success dosing with the leaves submerged.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> What ratio's are you using? I didn't have success dosing with the leaves submerged.


I used 300mL of H2O2 and 30mL of Glut 2.6%. Assuming I have 150 actual gallons of water. 2mL/gallon H2O2 and 2mL/10g glut. We shall see if it works. 

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## Phil Edwards

LOLOL, that reminds me of something one of my old Chem profs used to say, "If your units are right you might be right. If your units are wrong, you know you're wrong.". Also, dilution is the solution to pollution. Is there any way you can store that mix and dilute it down enough to be usable?


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## chayos00

Phil Edwards said:


> LOLOL, that reminds me of something one of my old Chem profs used to say, "If your units are right you might be right. If your units are wrong, you know you're wrong.". Also, dilution is the solution to pollution. Is there any way you can store that mix and dilute it down enough to be usable?


Yeah it was way wrong for sure! I dumped the solution the day I realized my mistake. Plus with the weights off, the mix would of been way wrong as I had like 1000 times too much of the milligram ferts weighed at gram weights. 

Also I use a very similar phrase for folks too. "The solution to pollution is dilution." LOL It's funny how some folks are like but I can't do that much of a water change, but if it's killing your fish then you better. Usually it's when you see newbs in tank cycling and ammonia or nitrites are off the API chats of measure. 

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## The Dude1

Phil Edwards said:


> LOLOL, that reminds me of something one of my old Chem profs used to say, "If your units are right you might be right. If your units are wrong, you know you're wrong.". Also, dilution is the solution to pollution. Is there any way you can store that mix and dilute it down enough to be usable?


Ha! My old professor for Orgo was famous for saying "Is this too hard?? Do you think im asking too much of you?". "Well guess what, I don't care." "I can promise you this, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it". Funny thing was he was one of the best Professors I had ever had. Brilliant and gave you every tool you could possibly want to succeed. He had EVEVERY lecture on every topic posted on his site. He made interactive programs to help you understand complex concepts. 
And of course... Sig figs!!


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## chayos00

Looks like the BBA treatment is working as it's turning red! Sucks being sick as I don't have the current motivation/energy to do another treatment today. The kids have worn me out already and this Sudafed has me light headed. But hey at least my nose isn't clogged anymore! LOL





































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## chayos00

Holy moly! I just saw 4 of my Loaches hanging out! I just did a H2O2 + glut treatment again and after waiting like 30 minutes for it to do it's thing, I found the loaches actually out and about.



















Also does this greenish yellow color look like a good color for the drop checker?


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## chayos00

So far no Glowlight babies.....

However I now did a third BBA nuking this time to make sure I got it all, what I have so far has turned red. 

I tried to make an upload a video from my phone in 4K, but it never would upload to Youtube in 4k, just 480p.... not sure what the deal is there!


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## chayos00

As I'm auto dosing and doing CO2 now, I figured I'll have to start doing water changes in the evenings vs sometime during the day while I'm working, as I work from home. So last night I did my WC and decided due to the BBA I've got going on, I decided to clean out my sump. Started around 10pm and finished by 12am. I pulled all 3 layers of poret foam out and cleaned them as best as I could. Poret is kind of a pain to rinse out (21" tall x 13" wide and 4" thick, it gets heavy), taking a hose and banging it on my wall in my courtyard as well as trying to just run water through it till clear. Then after pulling those out I noticed all the mulm set loose from pulling the poret foam out, I turned the sump on max and then with the foam out I used a few sheets of cotton batting and kept churning up the bottom of the sump to get all the mulm out. I then left some clean batting in front of my poret in hopes I can use that to catch the stuff in the water first. 

All the BBA is currently a red color so it should all be coming off soon. Now to just boost the health of my plants, I'll probably up the lighting a bit after all my BBA is dead. 

I made up my DIY micro mix today, as I realized I got my dosing pump setting mixed up, I had the micro's dosing at 50mL and the macros at 20mL which should of been the other way around. But now due to my mix I made I'm back to 50mL for both micro and macro a day. Time to see what time gets me!


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## Phil Edwards

I had the same issues with the Poret foam in my sump when I used it. I love the stuff and think it's a fantastic product, but it was just too hard to keep clean enough in my tank. I had five layers of the stuff, counting the prefilter layer in the drip tray. I've since switched media and am a lot happier with it. 

As far as cleaning the sump out, have you considered using a Wet-Dry vac to clean out the gunk? I just run the water down as low as I can get it and suck the gunk out; easy peasy. It also makes a good time to clean the media since it has to come out to vacuum.

Oh, and on the topic of water change schedules. If you were doing your changes during the day when the CO2 was on, that may help explain the BBA in part. I've found it's best to do changes before the CO2 comes on or in the evening near the end of the tank's day so as not to disrupt the CO2 too much. 

Cheers,
Phil


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## chayos00

Phil Edwards said:


> I had the same issues with the Poret foam in my sump when I used it. I love the stuff and think it's a fantastic product, but it was just too hard to keep clean enough in my tank. I had five layers of the stuff, counting the prefilter layer in the drip tray. I've since switched media and am a lot happier with it.
> 
> As far as cleaning the sump out, have you considered using a Wet-Dry vac to clean out the gunk? I just run the water down as low as I can get it and suck the gunk out; easy peasy. It also makes a good time to clean the media since it has to come out to vacuum.
> 
> With the thick poret I think I really should have just gone with 2 2" thick sheets vs the single 4" thick sheets I'm using. LOL might have been easier to clean. But the plus has been not needing to touch it for months at a time. But I think I'll keep to a 2 month max from now on. Maybe using the shop vac to try and help suck out the mulm may help too, who knows. Just don't like how when doing the smacking it on something method just keeps getting traces of mulm no long how you try. What media did you end up going to? I've got a 10ppi, 20ppi, biomedia (about 5-10lbs of mixed brands), then a 30ppi sheet.
> 
> Oh, and on the topic of water change schedules. If you were doing your changes during the day when the CO2 was on, that may help explain the BBA in part. I've found it's best to do changes before the CO2 comes on or in the evening near the end of the tank's day so as not to disrupt the CO2 too much.
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil


I was gonna grab my shop vac, but it was out in my backyard full of some Palo Verde flowers as I got to a point where they became too deep to keep blowing out and as Im a bit allergic to them I didn't feel like also needing a shower. But I was thinking of doing another cleaning of the poret in about a month and I'll use it then the suck all the goo from the sump caused by the rival of poret. 

But as I just started using CO2 the BBA was there before, and my first two WC's with CO2 were right away in the morning so it was probably just delayed turning on by about an hour or so. 

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## chayos00

So I've noticed this Dwyer Flow valve gets "stuck" when it goes over 60cc/min but once I tap it then it moves freely but is not steady. It's more steady at a lower flow rate, but need it up this high. 

https://youtu.be/A_Dxb6PCcxk

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## chayos00

So today I sent to Tractor Supply as they have large water storage containers, so I was thinking I'd go take a look for my RO water system I want to setup in my garage. The only size tank I could find for my 32" space was a 65g container, but at $199. But for the cost vs size I wasn't about to go that small. The guy who showed me these told me about another place up the road that sells different containers. 

http://www.loomistank.com/plastic-water-tanks.shtml

There's a few 30" round containers from 4' and taller. I'll have to call them on Monday and see what they have in stock for a 150-230g container in my size range. Their site shows prices from $200-300 so hope I can avoid any shipping costs! 

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## chayos00

Glowlight baby!! I was cleaning out the tank to fill it with peat moss for a bottom cover and discovered a single Glowlight baby.









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## Immortal1

chayos00 said:


> So I've noticed this Dwyer Flow valve gets "stuck" when it goes over 60cc/min but once I tap it then it moves freely but is not steady. It's more steady at a lower flow rate, but need it up this high.
> 
> https://youtu.be/A_Dxb6PCcxk
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


We use various Dwyer flow meters at work and I have noticed what you showed in your video. In our cases, the ball in our meters is basically Styrofoam. Once that little ball gets any moisture on it - it likes to stick.

In your case, I can only assume the co2 is very dry AND your check valve is after the Dwyer meter to keep tank water away from the little ball.


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## OreoP

chayos00 said:


> So I've noticed this Dwyer Flow valve gets "stuck" when it goes over 60cc/min but once I tap it then it moves freely but is not steady. It's more steady at a lower flow rate, but need it up this high.
> 
> https://youtu.be/A_Dxb6PCcxk
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I have had a similar issue - came down to a faulty check valve that was letting water into the flow meter. Fortunately I caught it before any moisture got into the regulator. As a precaution, I now run two check valves on the CO2 line


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## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> We use various Dwyer flow meters at work and I have noticed what you showed in your video. In our cases, the ball in our meters is basically Styrofoam. Once that little ball gets any moisture on it - it likes to stick.
> 
> In your case, I can only assume the co2 is very dry AND your check valve is after the Dwyer meter to keep tank water away from the little ball.





OreoP said:


> I have had a similar issue - came down to a faulty check valve that was letting water into the flow meter. Fortunately I caught it before any moisture got into the regulator. As a precaution, I now run two check valves on the CO2 line


Good to know it seems to be a moisture issue. However I do have two check valves in use. Setup goes like this.

Regulator > Aquatek metal check valve > Dwyer flow meter > Amazon plastic check valve > glass bubble counter > CO2 reactor

I didn't use the second metal check valve I bought after the meter as it seemed to need some decent pressure to get that to open up (i can't blow through it to open, but it does when connected to the CO2 setup), so I used the plastic check valve, which I have never seen water in the plastic check valve or meter.

Bump: It will be interesting to see if the next CO2 bottle makes a difference. Could be moisture in the CO2, who knows.


----------



## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Glowlight baby!! I was cleaning out the tank to fill it with peat moss for a bottom cover and discovered a single Glowlight baby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


No way!!! And you didn't do anything special like 5 day black out?


----------



## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> No way!!! And you didn't do anything special like 5 day black out?


Nope, just had a bunch of red root floaters covering the tank for the darkness. I added a pantyhose leg cut in two full of peat moss to get the tannins in the water. Then it just had some cholla wood with java fern in it as well as some Süsswassertang in a container. Since I didn't think it was quite working I gutted it yesterday to flood it with peat moss and found this guy, but I still gutted the tank and it's a muddy mess with floating peat moss that as soon as it settles I've got some dried Sphagnum moss for hanging plants that I'm going to cover the bottom with. Also going to leave the Süsswassertang in the tank but get all the peat out of it that's settled in it at the moment. Fingers crossed that next time it won't be just one baby that appears!


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## monkeyruler90

Hey Congrats on the baby! hopefully you'll get more

btw, seems like you're using the jebo doser now, got it all tuned in? 

what's the calculator/excel sheet that you're using to figure out your dose and your solution mix ?


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## chayos00

monkeyruler90 said:


> Hey Congrats on the baby! hopefully you'll get more
> 
> btw, seems like you're using the jebo doser now, got it all tuned in?
> 
> what's the calculator/excel sheet that you're using to figure out your dose and your solution mix ?


Thanks! I've got my fingers crossed too!

I've got the Jebo doser up and running now. It's working, but the one thing I keep seeing is that air keeps getting in the lines after the pump. Not sure if I need smaller tubing like it comes with or what. But what I have done is to take a second small piece of the tubing I've got and slipped it over the end as a makeshift clamp to snug it up, but doesn't seem to be doing it for the pump. Who knows.... 

The calculator I'm using is from here. Zorfox's Planted Tank Calculator It works the same as the one here, but has a few more options to see. https://rotalabutterfly.com/nutrient-calculator.php

The spreadsheet is one from Greggz thread http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...rameters/1221018-custom-micro-mix-thread.html


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## chayos00

So I really do need to learn how to use my SLR better! It seems I take pictures that look okay on the SLR screen, but then I get them on the PC and they are all washed out.... Granted they say to increase lighting when taking pictures, which I do turn it up a bit but that seems to be too much for the camera settings. If I leave it in Auto then it's just too low of a shutter speed, but if I leave it in manual with the settings that I saw that were suggested, shutter speed at 1/125, an F stop of F5.6, and an ISO of 6400, it washes out with the lights up, but is okay with the lower lighting levels. I guess I need to research DSLR's LOL and not fish stuff! I redid all of today's photos using my normal 100% lighting setting so it wasn't all washed out, but some of the fish colors don't quite pop. 

Before 5/20/2018 FTS - Day 445
Before 5/19/2018 FTS by chayos00, on Flickr

Before 5/20/2018 Left Side
Before 5/19/2018 Left Side by chayos00, on Flickr

Before 5/20/2018 Right Side
Before 5/19/2018 Right Side by chayos00, on Flickr

Before Trimming
Before by chayos00, on Flickr

Daddy's little helper!
IMG_3079 by chayos00, on Flickr

The trimming took most of the day on Sunday, so I didn't get pictures till this morning 5/21/2018. I also had to hit the wood with another treatment of Glut and H2O2 to get the last of the BBA on there. 

After 5/21/2018 FTS - Day 446
After 5/20/2018 FTS by chayos00, on Flickr

After 5/21/2018 Left Side
After 5/20/2018 Left Side by chayos00, on Flickr

After 5/21/2018 Right Side
After 5/20/2018 RIght Side by chayos00, on Flickr

Love the look of this moss now that I've redone the rock with it and it's starting to fill out.
Fissidens fontanus by chayos00, on Flickr

Mermaid weed, I'm liking the look of this. Got one stem from the local fish group auction.
Proserpinaca palustris (Marsh mermaidweed) by chayos00, on Flickr

Results of my Anubis hack job! No more black spots and BBA 
After Trimming by chayos00, on Flickr

I moved how my Needle Leaf Java fern is showing. I put 4 1" or 1.5" PVC pipes in a block with zip ties holding it together and then put some of that white eggcrate stuff above it zip tied on the PVC and made a shelf for the java fern to sit on and to also give some "hiding holes" to any fish that decides to use the PVC tubes. I didn't paint it, but may paint it black when I get something that would work one day.
Needle Java Fern by chayos00, on Flickr

I then tried to get some fish shots too.

Inpaichthys kerri (Purple Emperor Tetra) by chayos00, on Flickr

Paracheirodon axelrodi – Cardinal Tetra by chayos00, on Flickr

It's funny how some of these Pristella tetra's have the black spot and some don't. Not sure if they are different sub species or not. But they aren't the serpae tetra's I thought they were in the store. 
Pristella maxillaris (X-Ray Pristella Tetra) by chayos00, on Flickr

Caridina multidentata (Amano Shrimp) by chayos00, on Flickr

Hemigrammus rhodostomus (Rummy-nose tetra) by chayos00, on Flickr

Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi (Black Neon Tetra) by chayos00, on Flickr

Love my pea puffers!
Carinotetraodon travancoricus (Dwarf Puffer) by chayos00, on Flickr

The hardly seen Zebra Loach! 
Botia striata (Zebra Loach) by chayos00, on Flickr


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## The Dude1

Really looking good! Did you buy all those Emporer Tetras or did you raise a large group. I hope you dont tkae offense to this as I think we are on the same page... but youve got all those beautiful colorful fish.... and then the Pristilla tetras... I think mine are going to the LFS this weekend. They are hardy beyond compare, but they don't stack up to the others.


----------



## ChrisX

The Dude1 said:


> Really looking good! Did you buy all those Emporer Tetras or did you raise a large group. I hope you dont tkae offense to this as I think we are on the same page... but youve got all those beautiful colorful fish.... and then the Pristilla tetras... I think mine are going to the LFS this weekend. They are hardy beyond compare, but they don't stack up to the others.


I like the Pristella tetras. They have great finnage, and nothing wrong with a silver body.


----------



## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Really looking good! Did you buy all those Emporer Tetras or did you raise a large group. I hope you dont tkae offense to this as I think we are on the same page... but youve got all those beautiful colorful fish.... and then the Pristilla tetras... I think mine are going to the LFS this weekend. They are hardy beyond compare, but they don't stack up to the others.


Thanks! Those are the tetras that I breed, thus why there are so many. LOL 

No offense taken of the blah Pristella tetras, I'm in the same boat as you! I can't wait for my Cardinals to mature to breeding size/age, I'll try after our trip in September. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> I like the Pristella tetras. They have great finnage, and nothing wrong with a silver body.


They do have good finnage, but I don't really like them as they aren't the serpae tetras I thought they were. LOL I'd honestly rather have more of my glass bloodfins for a silver body coloring. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

So today I bumped up my LED lighting levels by 50% of what they were set for. With upping the setting on the StormX, it's got 4095 levels between off and max, but as the numbers jump up it goes by higher than 1 by 1, it's like a set of 1 x 1 then 2 x 2 then 4x4 and so on. So I got an average of about a 54% increase based on the numbers. 










So it's not a huge increase in lighting, but it took my lighting power use from a before of about 50-60w and now I'm pulling 93w of power. Here's to hoping it's not going to just boost the algae, but kick the plants in the butt! I went from a PAR average across the tank from 15 to what I can only assume is about 30 PAR based on my untuned previous baseline that had a similar wattage consumption and StormX settings. 

Time to sit back and see what she does! Wonder if/when I'm going to get any pearling out of any of these plants with about 30ppm CO2 levels. If not, I'm wondering if I should try about 20ppm CO2 and see what happens. Which I might do in a few weeks after seeing what's happening with growth.


----------



## chayos00

Today's lighting level.

Updated LED Level by chayos00, on Flickr

From before, 05/21/2018 lighting levels.

After 5/20/2018 FTS by chayos00, on Flickr


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## chayos00

On 5/25 I bumped up my lighting to 200% of what my pre CO2 levels that I wrote about on 5/23. So I'm around 114w of power being pulled in my LED setup now. I noticed some pearling coming from a few areas on the anubis that were clipped last weekend. LOL It's a start, but would like to see it not on the damaged areas. 

So the stainless steel mesh screen I was using to stop fish going down my overflow has been bugging me as I wanted a way to have it less visible, by being smaller. I found after taking the cover off I put these little spacers every few inches so I could not squeeze a new screen on the inside of the overflow like I was thinking. As I felt defeated while I was hosing off the screen (also found a molded white glass bloodfins tetra died on the top of the screen) I realized I had these low profile overflow strainers I got from BRS when I got my bulkheads.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/low-profile-bulkhead-overflow-strainers.html

After a bit of hunting down where I put them I found them. As I ordered the threaded ones for some reason they didn't quite lock into my slip bulkheads, but I locked the in place with a piece of eggcrate cut to the right size and now my overflow is actually back to skimming my water surface again! In about 30 seconds my protein skim on the waters surface was finally gone! LOL However it seems to be my sump has it now.... LOL Gonna have to put an airstone back in my sump in the first chamber to break up the surface. 



















I then also finally installed my locks for my canopy so I'm not using a clamp to stop it from opening on its own anymore.


----------



## ChrisX

How do the Leds / wiring hold up against condensation from the tank? Or is there glass?


----------



## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> How do the Leds / wiring hold up against condensation from the tank? Or is there glass?


The back of the canopy is wide open, about 15" of height. However I use greenhouse panel as a cover to try and reduce evaporation, but even when I didn't there has been ZERO mositure issues. Probably helps being in Arizona too where it's already very low humidity. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX

chayos00 said:


> The back of the canopy is wide open, about 15" of height. However I use greenhouse panel as a cover to try and reduce evaporation, but even when I didn't there has been ZERO mositure issues. Probably helps being in Arizona too where it's already very low humidity.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Which part of az? I used to live in Tempe then Chandler.


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> Which part of az? I used to live in Tempe then Chandler.


I'm in the Tucson area. Just a bit cooler and WAY less cluster F of traffic, luckily I also work from home so I never get down in down where it's all at. LOL

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

@ChrisX Another photo to show how open the back is. Not sure why my phone gets those black lines whenever I get it closer to the lights. Must be either the light intensity or some sort of EM interference.
















Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX

chayos00 said:


> @ChrisX Another photo to show how open the back is. Not sure why my phone gets those black lines whenever I get it closer to the lights. Must be either the light intensity or some sort of EM interference.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


This is useful information.

My DIY canopy has a back panel that has enough open space to run an HOB filter. I was planning to tack a plastic strip across the remaining gap so that fish cannot jump out. 

What you've shown is that an open canopy doesn't collect condensation. Do the inner surfaces of your canopy ever get wet? It looks like you used white paint (enamel) for the inside. I used many coats of Polycrylic (which is supposed to be water resistant) over shellac.

If it turns out that I have a condensation problem, I can either just live with it, or add a fan to help exchange air, although I'm curious how much the water level would drop over a week. I suspect your water level drops an inch or more each week.

BTW, I also got interference lines when photographing my lights on one occasion.

Did you build that stand/canopy? Looks great!


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> This is useful information.
> 
> My DIY canopy has a back panel that has enough open space to run an HOB filter. I was planning to tack a plastic strip across the remaining gap so that fish cannot jump out.
> 
> What you've shown is that an open canopy doesn't collect condensation. Do the inner surfaces of your canopy ever get wet? It looks like you used white paint (enamel) for the inside. I used many coats of Polycrylic (which is supposed to be water resistant) over shellac.
> 
> If it turns out that I have a condensation problem, I can either just live with it, or add a fan to help exchange air, although I'm curious how much the water level would drop over a week. I suspect your water level drops an inch or more each week.
> 
> BTW, I also got interference lines when photographing my lights on one occasion.
> 
> Did you build that stand/canopy? Looks great!


I painted the inside first with Killz paint and then went over it again with a pure white paint with a high sheen from Home Depot. There also isn't a bit of any mositure anywhere in the canopy or stand. There are four fans I do have on top of my LED fixture, but I didn't have any moisture before that either. 

I had thought about using window screen across the back for fish jumping, but with the cover now that hasn't been a worry. 

As for evaporation since I have a sump that's where I see the level drop. But that's about 5g a week or so even with my cover. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX

chayos00 said:


> I painted the inside first with Killz paint and then went over it again with a pure white paint with a high sheen from Home Depot. There also isn't a bit of any mositure anywhere in the canopy or stand. There are four fans I do have on top of my LED fixture, but I didn't have any moisture before that either.
> 
> *I had thought about using window screen across the back for fish jumping, but with the cover now that hasn't been a worry. *
> 
> As for evaporation since I have a sump that's where I see the level drop. But that's about 5g a week or so even with my cover.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


You have a glass cover on the tank too, or did I misunderstand? Could the fish jump out the back?


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> You have a glass cover on the tank too, or did I misunderstand? Could the fish jump out the back?


I use greenhouse panel as a DIY cover. With my canopy having a fairly tight fitting piece of glass would get hung up under the wood edges of the canopy. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> Did you build that stand/canopy? Looks great!


Forgot to answer this question. Yup, built the canopy and stand. I summarized my entire build in the first few posts of this thread. Take a look and you'll see the entire build process. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

So I noticed new fresh BBA all over the glass in the tank and on plants again. So I dropped my LED's back down to pre CO2 levels and upped my glut dosing as I mixed it at a 0.75% as I didn't want to melt/shock/kill my Val's I've been trying to grow, but as they were taking a hit I pulled them out and stuffed them in a QT tank to grow out. Have never been able to get Val's to grow in my 125g. 

So I'm going to do a blackout this weekend as I'll be out of town, but not sure if I should keep the CO2 running or not or if I need to drop it down some from my 30ppm levels. Thoughts about keeping the co2 on or decreasing it's levels? 

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## The Dude1

I would cut it off for SURE. With no plants taking in C02 I would be scared of fish getting gassed after 5 or more hours of C02 with no light


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## vvDO

chayos00 said:


> So I noticed new fresh BBA all over the glass in the tank and on plants again. So I dropped my LED's back down to pre CO2 levels and upped my glut dosing as I mixed it at a 0.75% as I didn't want to melt/shock/kill my Val's I've been trying to grow, but as they were taking a hit I pulled them out and stuffed them in a QT tank to grow out. Have never been able to get Val's to grow in my 125g.
> 
> So I'm going to do a blackout this weekend as I'll be out of town, but not sure if I should keep the CO2 running or not or if I need to drop it down some from my 30ppm levels. Thoughts about keeping the co2 on or decreasing it's levels?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




You can try keeping it on after lights out and see how the fish if you can keep an eye on things for a couple of hours. Just be ready to do a quick water change. If adequate surface agitation (which it seems you have plenty of plus sump) and O2 levels are OK, fish may be fine. I’m guessing you may need to reduce the levels a bit, but again some keep CO2 going all night (no solenoid) without issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I would cut it off for SURE. With no plants taking in C02 I would be scared of fish getting gassed after 5 or more hours of C02 with no light





vvDO said:


> You can try keeping it on after lights out and see how the fish if you can keep an eye on things for a couple of hours. Just be ready to do a quick water change. If adequate surface agitation (which it seems you have plenty of plus sump) and O2 levels are OK, fish may be fine. I’m guessing you may need to reduce the levels a bit, but again some keep CO2 going all night (no solenoid) without issues.


Thanks guys, while I was waiting for my eye apt, seems like the consensus is to shut down CO2, which makes sense. I'm going to turn off my fert dosing as well, but leave the glut dosing going. I'll probably step up the pump speed to get some more splashing of the water down the second drain line to help give some more oxygen when I blackout. If I get a chance (feeling sick again...) I'm going to see if I can direct inject the glut H2O2 mix on the big obvious spots of the BBA today or tomorrow. I'm wondering if I just need to get my stem plants filling the far left side of the tank to help out compete the algae that is giving me the finger LOL


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Thanks guys, while I was waiting for my eye apt, seems like the consensus is to shut down CO2, which makes sense. I'm going to turn off my fert dosing as well, but leave the glut dosing going. I'll probably step up the pump speed to get some more splashing of the water down the second drain line to help give some more oxygen when I blackout. If I get a chance (feeling sick again...) I'm going to see if I can direct inject the glut H2O2 mix on the big obvious spots of the BBA today or tomorrow. I'm wondering if I just need to get my stem plants filling the far left side of the tank to help out compete the algae that is giving me the finger LOL


I had no BBA issues until I took out the stems. I did a massive cleanup on plants, started doing 9ml of glut daily and moved around the lighting and reduced the photoperiod. Still had some BBA. I finally cut off one of the fixtures entirely and reduced the total photoperiod to 7 hours. This is in the top 75. Bottom 75 still has some Bacopa Caroliniana and same exact fert dosing and C02 levels... and I've got a 3 bulb T5HO on that tank instead of LEDS so it gets a good deal more light. Bottom 75 has more plant mass, but it's mostly just a couple big java ferns... so not fast growers. 
Hope you're feeling better. I had something last weekend. It takes alot to slow me down and this had me on my back for 3 days


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## chayos00

Let the blackout begin! Did a water change this morning and turned off CO2 and all lighting. Taped trash bags to the glass and closed up the room the tank is in, that should give the fish a great blackout! LOL I upped the speed on my sump pump by one notch and that should keep the water well aerated since the plants won't be making any O2 during this time. I also turned off my fertilizer dosing but kept the glut dosing going, I actually have the glut to dose at 12 hr increments as I mixed it at a lower ratio, think 0.75%. Excel is like 1.2 or 1.5%. 

Off to some camping! Hoping when I get back Monday all BBA will be dead and gone. LOL

Edit : Forgot the picture.


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## The Dude1

Wow! You weren't messing around! Do you have automated fish feeders or are the going to fast? I'm sure 5 days is nothing.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Wow! You weren't messing around! Do you have automated fish feeders or are the going to fast? I'm sure 5 days is nothing.


Nothing automated for feeding yet. But I plan to get an eheim one before my upcoming 2 week trip in September. But my only concern is my pea puffers since they eat blood worms. Unless I get a few pound of live worms and dump them in the tank the week before. However I mentioned to my wife having a friend stop by and feed the frozen worms like once over five days while we are gone. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Nothing automated for feeding yet. But I plan to get an eheim one before my upcoming 2 week trip in September. But my only concern is my pea puffers since they eat blood worms. Unless I get a few pound of live worms and dump them in the tank the week before. However I mentioned to my wife having a friend stop by and feed the frozen worms like once over five days while we are gone. I'm sure they'll be fine and extra happy to see you... and the bloodworms!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I had a friend do that when my Gertrude Rainbows popped up some fry 2 days before our week long trip to TN. You probably don't have a population of cherry shrimp that you could drop some culls in there for them? They would eat shrimp right?


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I had a friend do that when my Gertrude Rainbows popped up some fry 2 days before our week long trip to TN. You probably don't have a population of cherry shrimp that you could drop some culls in there for them? They would eat shrimp right?


I picked up 4 that I saw at PetSmart a few weeks back but I haven't seen them in my QT tank along with more Amano shrimp, otos, and a few more Cory cats around the same time. But this Saturday will be 1 or 2 months of time for that group as I ended up getting more the month after the first and put them all in the same tank. However they haven't touched my Amanos or the ghost shrimp I had in the tank before. I could always collect a bunch of the pond snails in my QT tanks and put them in my DT for a snack during the time too. 

An update for today after the end of my blackout. So the BBA still seems to be there untouched. So I did another H2O2 and Glut spot treatments on everything I could see the BBA on, as I never got to it before. Pretty sure I had some sort of throat bacterial infection, or sinuses last week, but the strep test came back negative but the doc gave me amoxicillin anyways as it is going around here. So everything looked okay in the tank and shockingly some stem plants got bigger during the blackout too. LOL I also noticed that my CO2 tank seems to be empty of liquid CO2 so I took that as a sign to weigh the tank and it's 34.4lbs. The new one I went to get as a spare/backup weights 43.4lbs so not sure if the new tank doesn't really have 20lbs of CO2 or the one I have really still has half to go. LOL 

I noticed that my flow meter was pegged out on the gauge so I played around with it and could see moisture in the tube and had to open the valve up to blow out some moisture, but seemed that I had mositure in the line headed down to the regulator then too. Makes me wonder if my check valve really isn't stopping fluid or if my CO2 has moisture in it. Trying to talk to the guy at the gas store today was like talking to a brick wall. "Well yeah there's fluid in the tank it's liquid CO2." "No guy, I'm talking water....." Ugh.... idiots who are clueless in their jobs.... 


The post in the dudes journal has me now thinking about UV on my tank, but sure not wanting to spend like $300 on a setup for mine. LOL Maybe one day if I redo my sump plumbing. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> I picked up 4 that I saw at PetSmart a few weeks back but I haven't seen them in my QT tank along with more Amano shrimp, otos, and a few more Cory cats around the same time. But this Saturday will be 1 or 2 months of time for that group as I ended up getting more the month after the first and put them all in the same tank. However they haven't touched my Amanos or the ghost shrimp I had in the tank before. I could always collect a bunch of the pond snails in my QT tanks and put them in my DT for a snack during the time too.
> 
> An update for today after the end of my blackout. So the BBA still seems to be there untouched. So I did another H2O2 and Glut spot treatments on everything I could see the BBA on, as I never got to it before. Pretty sure I had some sort of throat bacterial infection, or sinuses last week, but the strep test came back negative but the doc gave me amoxicillin anyways as it is going around here. So everything looked okay in the tank and shockingly some stem plants got bigger during the blackout too. LOL I also noticed that my CO2 tank seems to be empty of liquid CO2 so I took that as a sign to weigh the tank and it's 34.4lbs. The new one I went to get as a spare/backup weights 43.4lbs so not sure if the new tank doesn't really have 20lbs of CO2 or the one I have really still has half to go. LOL
> 
> I noticed that my flow meter was pegged out on the gauge so I played around with it and could see moisture in the tube and had to open the valve up to blow out some moisture, but seemed that I had mositure in the line headed down to the regulator then too. Makes me wonder if my check valve really isn't stopping fluid or if my CO2 has moisture in it. Trying to talk to the guy at the gas store today was like talking to a brick wall. "Well yeah there's fluid in the tank it's liquid CO2." "No guy, I'm talking water....." Ugh.... idiots who are clueless in their jobs....
> 
> 
> The post in the dudes journal has me now thinking about UV on my tank, but sure not wanting to spend like $300 on a setup for mine. LOL Maybe one day if I redo my sump plumbing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I did some reading on this. Wavelength is unimportant to us as we know it's what 240-270nm... which obviously we would produce with UV lamps. 40w seems to be common wattage utilized, but testing shows that spore forming protozoa require about 20 minutes of UV exposure to ensure the creation of enough thymine dimers to become lethal... much much less for bacteria. My question is that it makes sense that this would be cumulative given short periods of time... say you had a 100gph pump going through a 55w lamp.... but still how much time is that at each cycle?? Seconds? Maybe? Very little research using sterilizers obviously. Mostly cabinets with lamps.. but you have to consider that for us (humans)... UV exposure is relatively cumulative... yes we have pathways to fix some, but we know a single mutation here and a single mutation there is what produces our cancerous cells.
So now consider a 100gph flow rate on a 55w lamp (most biosafety cabinets are 40w) and letting it circulate the water for 7-10 days... it certainly seems that science validates the concept. The 55w unit I am looking at is about $275 and would need a water pump and some tubing... unless I water to buy a 2nd canister since the reactor would slow the flow so much on the XP3. Consider a single Discus is $100... or even $1 per Neon... I've easily lost $500 in Neons... At that level of exposure fungus and bacterial infections would be all but a thing of the past as spore producing parasites are substantially more resilient.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I did some reading on this. Wavelength is unimportant to us as we know it's what 240-270nm... which obviously we would produce with UV lamps. 40w seems to be common wattage utilized, but testing shows that spore forming protozoa require about 20 minutes of UV exposure to ensure the creation of enough thymine dimers to become lethal... much much less for bacteria. My question is that it makes sense that this would be cumulative given short periods of time... say you had a 100gph pump going through a 55w lamp.... but still how much time is that at each cycle?? Seconds? Maybe? Very little research using sterilizers obviously. Mostly cabinets with lamps.. but you have to consider that for us (humans)... UV exposure is relatively cumulative... yes we have pathways to fix some, but we know a single mutation here and a single mutation there is what produces our cancerous cells.
> So now consider a 100gph flow rate on a 55w lamp (most biosafety cabinets are 40w) and letting it circulate the water for 7-10 days... it certainly seems that science validates the concept. The 55w unit I am looking at is about $275 and would need a water pump and some tubing... unless I water to buy a 2nd canister since the reactor would slow the flow so much on the XP3. Consider a single Discus is $100... or even $1 per Neon... I've easily lost $500 in Neons... At that level of exposure fungus and bacterial infections would be all but a thing of the past as spore producing parasites are substantially more resilient.


As I now won't go without QTing my fish, I wonder now if doing a 15w UV setup on that tank would be a good idea with a really low flow pump (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EWENKXO/) to get a thorough killing of the "ickies". Then as a safeguard to my DT a 15 or 25w UV lamp to give the fish a boosted chance at having a healthier life. Who know's, I would have to save up to be able to get one of these $200-300 UV setups. 

As far as my BBA battle. I'm going to test Greggz theory about flow with having a higher amount as a possible assistant to helping BBA thrive. However I know I do have BBA in some lower flow area's of my tank. I'm shutting off my Hydor Koralia 1050-1150gph pumps that I have alternating and I dropped my sump flow down one speed from #3 to #2, so from 911gph to 746gph. So an overall drop of 1215gph of water movement in my tank. Which dropping the sump speed did drop my micro bubble amount coming from my dual 1.5" return lines from my sump. Which would also equate to going from 455gph to 373gph coming out of each end of my 1.5" return lines. 

The water flow and the decrease from my lights back to pre CO2 levels and increasing the ramp up and down times from 120 minutes to 240 minutes should have a positive impact on the reduction of my BBA amounts in my tank, or so I hope! I'm also going to clean my poret foam filters again this Friday nights water change. 

I put in fresh poly filter in front of my first poret foam blocks on last Friday's water change and noticed that they really got dirty during my blackout over the weekend. Odd how that did that where as the set I used before lasted about 2 or 3 weeks (whenever I last cleaned my poret foam).

I also had to bleach all my purigen as it was pretty dark from the few weeks it was put back in service.


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## chayos00

Performed another manual application of Glut and H2O2 today. I want to make sure EVERYTHING BBA is showing as red before I do anything else. I want this crap dead! LOL 

I really need to get my RO station setup, so I can do more than about a 40g water change all at once. Then I could drain the DT and the sump and spray it all down at once to kill the crap.


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## Beccanne

Holy DIY jealousy!!!! I can't believe you made that, it's beautiful! I wanna be like you when I grow up XD


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## chayos00

Beccanne said:


> Holy DIY jealousy!!!! I can't believe you made that, it's beautiful! I wanna be like you when I grow up XD


Thanks! Yeah as you probably read, it did take 3 years to do! LOL I still feel like I don't know what I want to do when I grow up, said the 36 year old man! LOL 

Got to ask, is the first few posts summarizing the majority of the build helpful?


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## The Dude1

It would be a hassle, but I'm thinking of making it somewhat transferable. The 25w version of what Discusluv has is said to handle 500 gallons. I could run it mainly on this 150 until I get the 265 going and clear the nasties out. Then come up with a decent albeit non permenant mounting solution for the 265. I'm going to do it. I lost 5 Neons and 1 Lemon tetra today. I feel like removing all of them and euthanizing rather than a few a day... 
I am grateful that I had this experience in this tank so that I didn't havento endure it after spending almost 8- 10k on the 265 gallon setup... that would have left a bad taste in my mouth


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> It would be a hassle, but I'm thinking of making it somewhat transferable. The 25w version of what Discusluv has is said to handle 500 gallons. I could run it mainly on this 150 until I get the 265 going and clear the nasties out. Then come up with a decent albeit non permenant mounting solution for the 265. I'm going to do it. I lost 5 Neons and 1 Lemon tetra today. I feel like removing all of them and euthanizing rather than a few a day...
> I am grateful that I had this experience in this tank so that I didn't havento endure it after spending almost 8- 10k on the 265 gallon setup... that would have left a bad taste in my mouth


Yeah my learning experience was when I was first setup and stocked. I'm sorry to hear about the losses that keep happening with your setup! That really does suck! Wondering if it's just poor quality fish or some bug getting your fish. 

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## Beccanne

chayos00 said:


> Thanks! Yeah as you probably read, it did take 3 years to do! LOL I still feel like I don't know what I want to do when I grow up, said the 36 year old man! LOL
> 
> Got to ask, is the first few posts summarizing the majority of the build helpful?


I think you did a really good job explaining everything! Not something I could ever do, but still! You must be a very patient person.... I'm not at all :grin2: Keep adding plants to my tank and everyone's like "don't you want to let your other stuff grow in first?" ....nope :grin2:


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## chayos00

Beccanne said:


> I think you did a really good job explaining everything! Not something I could ever do, but still! You must be a very patient person.... I'm not at all :grin2: Keep adding plants to my tank and everyone's like "don't you want to let your other stuff grow in first?" ....nope :grin2:


Nothing wrong with adding more and more plants! LOL 

Just don't do what @The Dude1 does and keep adding fish and it all going to heck on ya. ;-) LOL


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Nothing wrong with adding more and more plants! LOL
> 
> Just don't do what @The Dude1 does and keep adding fish and it all going to heck on ya. ;-) LOL


Thats the truth!!
1. Buy from reputable sources
2. Quarantine
3. Quarantine 
4. Quarantine


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Thats the truth!!
> 1. Buy from reputable sources
> 2. Quarantine
> 3. Quarantine
> 4. Quarantine


All 100% accurate!

Tonight at did my weekly WC and I did another full cleaning of the sump. Took the shop vac to it this time too. I did another cleaning of my poret foam and got the water running clear this time on all three foams. Talk about a pain beating them against the wall while trying to keep a grip in them as well as the hose in my hand to ensure the beating was flushing mulm out. The 10 and 20ppi were easy, but that 30ppi likes to hold onto crap. To think I even wanted 40ppi foam! HAHAHAHA I'd be cleaning that every other WC if I did.

I think I'm going to keep using sheets of poly filter media in front of the first foam as a normal thing that I just change out or rinse if not mangled too much from cleaning. I made an eggcrate sheet to keep the poly from sticking to the poret a fee weeks back, that was a good idea and glad I did that to keep the poly balls from sticking. 

Next I'll have to make some more RO water and then probably try to gravel vac some tomorrow, as I normally don't since I don't normally get much when I do. I think the MTS are helping keep the sand clean. 

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## chayos00

Lost the final Orange Von Rio in my 125g overnight. I noticed it's finally were a bit tattered last night. However I'm not surprised to finally lose this guy. I'm still up in the air about bringing the ones I breed into my DT, as it was questioned if they had fish TB or not. That's kind of partly why I wish I could find potassium permanganate in a few pound bulk container. 

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## chayos00

Ordered some more purigen in the 500mL canisters to fill into their bags, the tank seems to consume the small 100mL bags to fast LOL I've got like 4 100mL bags and a single 500mL bag full. Figured it's time to have some spares while I'm recharging the Purigen. I was about to order 2L worth, but damn that would be like $100 plus The Bag would be needed for each bottle of purigen. 

I also run some of that Seachem Cuprisorb as it was a salt water tank before I got it, so I've heard that some metals can remain somehow and leach in the tank. So luckily it has never changed color to indicate it sucked up any metals.


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## chayos00

Just got my replacement tubing in my my Jebao auto doser, I picked up some 2x5mm tubing to replace the airline stuff I was using. I kept getting air in the lines by the pump head, probably as it's the high point in the system. So one bonus is the fluid flows through the smaller tube faster, maybe that will clear out any air that does get in the lines. Or hopefully as it's a tighter fit it will just seal the lines better to not get air in the system. I will know in a few days the truth.


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## chayos00

Well the smaller tubing didn't fix the issue.... I noticed there was air in bubbles all along the lines now. When I manually prime the device I see zero bubbles getting pulled in the tubing anywhere... I've added those cheap plastic check valves to the end of the lines going into the tank as I had wondered if fluid was going down those lines and getting in the tubes. My next thought is to replace the tubing going through the pumps as if there are small pin holes there or not tight seals on the connections it could be bringing in air. However I'll have to confirm if it's 2x4mm or 2x5mm tubing. Guess this is what you get when you buy cheap things, some work and some not the greatest.


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## chayos00

Just lost one of my big fat Glowlight tetra's today.... "JUST LAY THE EGGS LADY AND DON'T DIE!!" She was about three times as wide as her head, I pressed on her belly and tons of eggs came gushing out. So disappointing! 

My Orange Von Rio's I still question if they are healthy or not, or if I should just euthanize them or not. I found one kind of floundering around that I dispatched of today too. 

I really want to breed some fish, but with this September trip coming up, I'm hesitant to as I'll be gone for 2 weeks, so would rather a minimal number of tanks with fish in them to have to deal with. But I'm itching to breed some fish! LOL


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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Just lost one of my big fat Glowlight tetra's today.... "JUST LAY THE EGGS LADY AND DON'T DIE!!" She was about three times as wide as her head, I pressed on her belly and tons of eggs came gushing out. So disappointing!
> 
> My Orange Von Rio's I still question if they are healthy or not, or if I should just euthanize them or not. I found one kind of floundering around that I dispatched of today too.
> 
> I really want to breed some fish, but with this September trip coming up, I'm hesitant to as I'll be gone for 2 weeks, so would rather a minimal number of tanks with fish in them to have to deal with. But I'm itching to breed some fish! LOL


How many do you have together? I've got several super plump females too that don't seem interested in dropping the eggs too. I'm thinking it might be related to the number of additional males pestering them every time one looks like it's going to lay eggs. It's crazy. I've seen it a couple times. Every tetra in the tank swarms them.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> How many do you have together? I've got several super plump females too that don't seem interested in dropping the eggs too. I'm thinking it might be related to the number of additional males pestering them every time one looks like it's going to lay eggs. It's crazy. I've seen it a couple times. Every tetra in the tank swarms them.


I had about 6 in there but I noticed some disappearances. There are 2 males and one fat lady now with a single juvenile. 

I've come up with an idea from a YouTube video. I'm going to add floating baskets to house a single pair to try and breed, this way it gives the eggs a chance to drop and not get eaten by the parents. It might also allow me to house more pairs of fish to breed at once if it works. I found these pond plant baskets at Lowe's last night. I'll post a pic of my idea later. 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> I had about 6 in there but I noticed some disappearances. There are 2 males and one fat lady now with a single juvenile.
> 
> I've come up with an idea from a YouTube video. I'm going to add floating baskets to house a single pair to try and breed, this way it gives the eggs a chance to drop and not get eaten by the parents. It might also allow me to house more pairs of fish to breed at once if it works. I found these pond plant baskets at Lowe's last night. I'll post a pic of my idea later.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


That's a great idea. Hopefully the male won't harass the female to death. And I'm sure you would put a top on there since if he does go after her and she jumps she won't end up on the floor.
I've seen eggs a few times in the 150. Hard to tell who is doing it though since they swarm the area. I didn't realize you had 40 Kerri tetras in there. I know you had some breeding success, but that's awesome!


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> That's a great idea. Hopefully the male won't harass the female to death. And I'm sure you would put a top on there since if he does go after her and she jumps she won't end up on the floor.
> I've seen eggs a few times in the 150. Hard to tell who is doing it though since they swarm the area. I didn't realize you had 40 Kerri tetras in there. I know you had some breeding success, but that's awesome!


I have a cover on all my tanks, don't want jumpers and it helps with evaporation. 

I put a male and the female Glowlight in those plant baskets, hopefully with just a pair they will do their thing and scatter those eggs! She's pretty fat and I can only assume massive amounts of eggs! While separating the fish I found one more time baby, so I guess they still have spawned even though they aren't getting thinner. 

So the baskets I got from Lowe's in the pond stuff. They are 10x10x6 in size. I washed them to make sure no residual manufacturing chemicals. I then cut a pool noodle to fit two sides and zip tied them to the basket. I'm able to fit two baskets in a 20g tank, as long as I drain the water down a few inches. So time will tell now if these work. If they do I'll do two pairs at a time going forward. 

Here's the pics of the basket setup.

I also got a few fish from the store today. Got 7 glass bloodfins, 7 serpae tetras, 9 glowlights, and 6 blue velvet shrimp (in a separate tank).




























Here's my method for keeping fish safe when transporting fish home.









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## The Dude1

Man that is such a good idea! My only empty QT / breeding tank is in the garage. I may set up another 1 or 2 20 longs on the same rack if I can figure out cooling. Can't do ac due to cost of unit and the garage isn't insulated. That also means no tank lid as I depend on evaporative cooling to try to keep the tank under 85*. 
Another Glowlight?? Don't they normally drop a bunch of eggs at once? Sounds like yours are going more like gertrude rainbows. 1 or 2 eggs each day... unless the other fish literally consumed all but a single fry from each spawn? At this rate you'll have a nice school by the end of the decade lol!! At the rate I'm going I'll have no fish by that time :-(


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Man that is such a good idea! My only empty QT / breeding tank is in the garage. I may set up another 1 or 2 20 longs on the same rack if I can figure out cooling. Can't do ac due to cost of unit and the garage isn't insulated. That also means no tank lid as I depend on evaporative cooling to try to keep the tank under 85*.
> Another Glowlight?? Don't they normally drop a bunch of eggs at once? Sounds like yours are going more like gertrude rainbows. 1 or 2 eggs each day... unless the other fish literally consumed all but a single fry from each spawn? At this rate you'll have a nice school by the end of the decade lol!! At the rate I'm going I'll have no fish by that time :-(


I've wondered about getting one of those window AC units for that garage and setting it to like 85° or so to keep heat in check and to be able to cool it down when working out there. But if need to wire a 220v drop to it as I would go oversized to rapid cool the area for working out there. Yeah, not excited for the 400-500 dollar cost of an AC unit and doing the 220v drop myself. LOL 

I believe that they are supposed to drop hundreds of eggs at a time,ine either aren't or are getting eaten right away. Who knows!? 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> I've wondered about getting one of those window AC units for that garage and setting it to like 85° or so to keep heat in check and to be able to cool it down when working out there. But if need to wire a 220v drop to it as I would go oversized to rapid cool the area for working out there. Yeah, not excited for the 400-500 dollar cost of an AC unit and doing the 220v drop myself. LOL
> 
> I believe that they are supposed to drop hundreds of eggs at a time,ine either aren't or are getting eaten right away. Who knows!?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Oh... I'm way off base. For some reason I thought a 1 room AC was like 3k... I do know they suck power... our power bill was $475 last year while the ac was dying. We are saving about $200 a month which is going right towards the $7500 new ac system cost. The wife would absolutely... I don't even know what to call it she would be so angry with me if I brought it back up to that. 
For the sake of science I nominate you to explore this possibility for us. Is your garage insulated and finished?


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Oh... I'm way off base. For some reason I thought a 1 room AC was like 3k... I do know they suck power... our power bill was $475 last year while the ac was dying. We are saving about $200 a month which is going right towards the $7500 new ac system cost. The wife would absolutely... I don't even know what to call it she would be so angry with me if I brought it back up to that.
> For the sake of science I nominate you to explore this possibility for us. Is your garage insulated and finished?


Yeah I had the builder insulate the single stall garage when it was built. They did also drywall and paint both garages. Got a dual for the vehicles and this single stall is my "workshop/fish area". I was thinking about using a window AC unit as it's an all in one vs one of those through wall style single room AC units. Granted I would have to build an enclosure to house the outside half, but I was thinking of making it went through the ceiling and then to outside for cooling the unit. Of course I'd need to figure out a drain for moisture too. 

If the HOA wouldn't care, I'd cut a hole through the wall and have it hanging out, but I know the foreman during the build basically did the same thing in his office garage stall and was told he can't do that. 

I want to also do this in my main garage as it gets 120°+ in there during the summer. I put insulation in the walls there before they hung the drywall and insulation the garage door with styrofoam sheets. Plus my portable swamp cooler can't cool that garage due to the size when I need to work on my vehicles. So figured an oversized window unit would work well in there, again power pulled out to it and an enclosure would be needed, but I could vent it through the already there vents for the water heater. 

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## chayos00

It's official, my first CO2 tank is dropping it's pressure. So I'm out of liquid CO2 in my 20lb tank. The tank is around 500psi at the moment. Good think I picked up a spare tank already! I really do wish I had a more accurate gauge for the tank, more like a 0-1000psi vs the 0-3000psi one that the regulator came with. Gonna need to hunt around for one.

Also on a drop checker how often do you guys have to change the fluid, I'm noticing that it seems my fluid isn't really getting as "colorful" as when it started.


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## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> Also on a drop checker how often do you guys have to change the fluid, I'm noticing that it seems my fluid isn't really getting as "colorful" as when it started.


Usually every few week I swap it out. Usually it lines up with needing to clean/ bleach a diffuser, any algae that grew on the drop checker, and some other things so it would need new fluid anyways. Maybe 3 weeks max for me?

But yes, it will start to lose it color over time and become almost clear if left long enough, from my experience.


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## chayos00

Yesterday I put on order a 250g vertical water storage tank for my soon to be RO water setup. It was a bit more than I expected due to the shipping of the items, as I thought it would be half the shipping costs it would be since it was going to make it on an already setup delivery for the company I'm going through. This link is the PDF drawing of what I'm getting. I'll have them tap a line for outgoing water at the bottom. 

http://www.norwesco.com/_site_components/uploads/pdfs/Vertical/250 Gallon Vertical Tank.pdf

Retail it's $310, but after shipping and tax it was like $480 :surprise::crying: But as I couldn't find one otherwise, what else can I do.... So it should be in about 4-8 weeks. Hopefully sooner so I can get my semi water change system figured out and an auto top off going too. 


For my Jebao DP-4 air in the lines issue, I'm having to order more tubing.... I'm going to run one solid line from the storage tanks through the pump and then output to the tank. Not sure where the air in the lines is coming from and I need to make sure my tank is getting proper dosing. What doesn't make sense is when I manually run it, there's ZERO air in the lines. As I was typing this, I looked back at the lines and there's small 1mm sized bubbles all over the inside of the tubing. Wonder if somehow the suction is "carbonating" the fluid as it's drawn in and the fluid is just off gassing as it sites..... Hmmm.... So my last resort will be to get rid of the suction straws in the tanks and put a piece of tube directly in the fluid. If that doesn't work, IDK WTF to do then about this doser.


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## chayos00

Jebao DP-4 update: I've got the new tubing that is supposed to be 2mmx4mm, but I really do think it's 1.5x3mm. Either way I got it to work being a single tube from the container, through the pump and out into the tank. I had to re-calibrate it, but it appears it maxes out at whatever the number stands for at 250 "pumps" to equal 100mL. However they maxed out at actually pumping 77-80mL between the three pumps. I've done the math to make it equal out the actual dose I want. So here's to crossing my fingers that I have no more air in the lines!

So with my water RO setup, I've decided that the cost of an RO pressure tank and another booster pump and the troubles of running the plumbing I'm going to get an iSpring 5 stage RO setup off of Amazon for about $200. It was also suggested to me to run PEX plumbing, but I'm thinking I want to go with 1" PVC to have a hard line going to my tank. Either way, I want to set it up so that way I can do a drain and fill of either the sump or the display tank. And not just one or the other, but probably won't know for sure till I get the 250g tank in the garage to know. 

Water change day is tonight. Wife hates that I do that during TV time LOL The "built in" water change system will be nice!


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> So with my water RO setup, I've decided that the cost of an RO pressure tank and another booster pump and the troubles of running the plumbing I'm going to get an iSpring 5 stage RO setup off of Amazon for about $200. It was also suggested to me to run PEX plumbing, but I'm thinking I want to go with 1" PVC to have a hard line going to my tank. Either way, I want to set it up so that way I can do a drain and fill of either the sump or the display tank. And not just one or the other, but probably won't know for sure till I get the 250g tank in the garage to know.
> 
> Water change day is tonight. Wife hates that I do that during TV time LOL The "built in" water change system will be nice!


It takes some work, but you will be very happy once you get it set up. One of the best things I ever added to my tank. One of my favorite things is being able to do top offs during the week. Just flip a switch and that's it. 

I used Pex for mine, and would recommend it as well. I used quick connect fittings, so no glue. Makes for a fast install, but PVC is a great choice too, just a bit more work is all.


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## The Dude1

So I wrote this LONG post and the token expired. So cliffnotes... 
You are going with RO because your tap is super hard right? It sucks you had to set all that up, but youvengot PERFECT water for whatever you want now! 
Second... you had alot of luck with Kerri tetras right? Since I lost a huge number of fish if I stick with this setup (which I likely will) I was thinking of moving the Emporers to the breeding tank (if I can get temps figured out) and building up to a school of 50 or more. They are kind of aggressive and cichlid like. My buddy loves Kerri tetras and thinks they are the tetra to which all others are compared. How colorful? How are their interactions? Are they what he is making them out to be? Do you have any good pics of them?


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> It takes some work, but you will be very happy once you get it set up. One of the best things I ever added to my tank. One of my favorite things is being able to do top offs during the week. Just flip a switch and that's it.
> 
> I used Pex for mine, and would recommend it as well. I used quick connect fittings, so no glue. Makes for a fast install, but PVC is a great choice too, just a bit more work is all.


Good to know you used PEX too, I will have to go through your thread again and find where you did your water change setup to get a better idea of an example of what I could do! 




The Dude1 said:


> So I wrote this LONG post and the token expired. So cliffnotes...
> You are going with RO because your tap is super hard right? It sucks you had to set all that up, but youvengot PERFECT water for whatever you want now!
> Second... you had alot of luck with Kerri tetras right? Since I lost a huge number of fish if I stick with this setup (which I likely will) I was thinking of moving the Emporers to the breeding tank (if I can get temps figured out) and building up to a school of 50 or more. They are kind of aggressive and cichlid like. My buddy loves Kerri tetras and thinks they are the tetra to which all others are compared. How colorful? How are their interactions? Are they what he is making them out to be? Do you have any good pics of them?


Yeah living in AZ I have pretty hard water. I need to also look into a water softener for getting my RO system to work the best it can, sodium I hear is easier on RO membranes than calcium. 

Yeah the first go round I got a good 40-50 babies. The second go round I only got about a dozen. I'm actually going to sell about 30 of them to a person in the next town away maybe next week, or whenever they can get out here. The males are the brightest with their bluish color on the sides. With this many in the tank and my water flow brought down they just kind of spread out about the tank. I don't see them picking on anyone either. During feeding time these guys are pigs and eat a butt ton of fish food really fast. I could literally have food all over the tanks surface and it's gone a minute later. I have no issues with the fish at all. However personally I can't wait to breed the cardinals and have 50-100 of them in my tank. I'll get some pictures of them tomorrow, as my lights are already dimming for the evening. Unless I find some on my phone later. 

Tip for you, I always copy my long posts before posting as I've lost too many in the past for timeouts. SUCKS a big one when it happens!


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Good to know you used PEX too, I will have to go through your thread again and find where you did your water change setup to get a better idea of an example of what I could do!


Here's a link to when I set up my system. Let me know if you have any questions I can help with.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1020497-greggz-120g-rainbow-fish-tank-bba-update-6-5-2018-a-16.html


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## chayos00

I timed myself for my water change last night. Mind you I fill up 5g buckets with RO water ahead of time and then a 20g trash can now too. It took 45-50 minutes for just a water change. Mind you I can drain the sump in about 60-90 seconds using a 1.5" line. I fill the tank with about 6 or 7 5g bucket loads and then drain out of the display tank the remaining amount of water that I have left from the 20g trash can, which was about 15g. So about 50g total change. Yeah I can't wait to have a more automated system with no moving of buckets and what not. Just have to figure a way to drain water from the sump and display tank and then the refill of both with as little work as possible. 

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## chayos00

Forgot a pic I have on my phone for the Kerri tetras.
















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## Grobbins48

Love those Kerri. If my 29 was not loaded with cherry barbs that would be a fish I would grab. Looks great!


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## The Dude1

Geez.... is that how they look normally or a good photo. They are gorgeous. All the beauty and plus some blue of the Emporers without the aggression... I've got 1 full grown female that has been chased under the filter output.. like straight up cichlid style. 
I'm going to have to think about this. I am really apprehensive about buying anymore fish and introducing them to my tanks. I wish I lived closer to you. I'd pay whatever you wanted for those 30. Maybe overcrowding the Emporers like african cichlid style would work?
Tank is looking tremendous man. Really gorgeous.


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## chayos00

Pretty much a normal look. Just my Google Pixel phone app processing of the HDR that it does. But what you see is what you get. I'm supposed to sell 30 of them to someone soon. I looked around online and saw $2.50-4 per fish so figured $2 per wouldn't be too bad of a price to ask.

Maybe I should breed them again. I was thinking when I start trying again I'm gonna do 2 breeding pairs in the floating baskets per tank and do one tank for the Kerri's and probably 3 tanks for the Cardinals. 

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## The Dude1

I dont know how I forgot this...my Emporers eat plants. No way are they going in the 150. They even eat anubias. Do the Kerri's nibble plants at all?


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I dont know how I forgot this...my Emporers eat plants. No way are they going in the 150. They even eat anubias. Do the Kerri's nibble plants at all?


I have not noticed any nibbling with mine. However I did just sell 20 of them and I was able to count about another 30 still in the tank. The gal asked if I have about 100 of them as another person in her area would like that many. LOL Guess I'll have to see if they still want after September when I'll start breeding again. 

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## chayos00

Finally made more ferts last night after my water change. Turns out I had enough of one of the dry goods to make 17 days worth, so time to order more. However my experiments with my auto doser and getting air in the lines has been a total failure. I have one solid line going through the pump so no extra fittings and even added a check valve to see if gravity would pull the fluid out of the lines and nothing is working. I might try to see if I can get everything on the same level so that way gravity might not be a factor. If this still doesn't work, not sure what I'm gonna do besides back to manual dosing. 

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## The Dude1

I would love to get a group from you when you are comfortable shipping. KNOWING they are healthy and disease free has become a huge concern.


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## Discusluv

The Kerri tetra is very nice! But, I am a tetra lover. 

Kind of reminds me of my Imperial tetra with the thick black line. But, obviously the Imperial has some red where the Kerri doesn't.


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## The Dude1

Those are even prettier, but way too pricey for a big group. I love the new blue bleeding hearts and whats the other one?


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## chayos00

testing, keep getting the SQL error everyone else is when trying to quote. 
@The Dude1 - Since I can't quote you at the moment.... I've been asked if I have 100 of these Kerri tetra's for a guy up in Phoenix. So when I get back from my trip I'll confirm if they want them still as well as you. If so I'll try to breed these guys again. Never shipped anything before, so I'll have to figure out what's needed to do so and we'll go from there (the cost of shipping has me wondering how expensive that will be). Maybe if you want if I can also get my cardinals to breed, we could ship some of those too if you want. I plan to make all 4 of the tanks I have breeders during that time. I'll probably put a breeding pair in each floating basket and I should be able to get two pairs in each tank. 
@Discusluv - Those are nice with the extra color to them for sure! 


Lost my last female glowfish tetra today. I'll have to transitions the two or three babies and the remaining male back to my DT water specs. Oh, I also got my 5lbs of potassium permanganate the other day too, but haven't done anything with it yet. I need to look and see if using that could possibly help cure those Orange Von Rio's of whatever they could possibly have, fish TB was the guess of someone else. I hate doing, it, but if it doesn't work I'm just going to call these fish a total loss...


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## chayos00

83 days. That's how long it took for my 20lb CO2 tank to run empty. Checked my pressure this morning and saw the gauge just under 40psi and it wouldn't adjust up. Took it about two hours to drain down empty. Glad to see there was no end of tank dump! As well as now knowing it lasts 18 days after the liquid CO2 goes empty. 

This time since I'm still getting rid of the BBA I backed the CO2 down from 70-80cc/min down to 50-60cc/min and see how things fare. Plus give the tank a longer life. 

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## The Dude1

I guess that is reasonable. A 20lb tank has been handling both 75's since January. Probably need to refill this week. 
I only found a quick mention of your fixture on page 16. I think it's over my head. May have StevesLED's build me a supplemental fixture to go with the Beamsworks and call it a day. Its $350 for a 48" with 42 Luxeon LED's. I'm thinking the heavy magenta photosynthesis enhancing combo is pretty much exactly what they need. Just not sure what to run as primary. How did you choose how many LED's, size, and all that? Looks like heatsink/ mounting material is the most costly thing


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I guess that is reasonable. A 20lb tank has been handling both 75's since January. Probably need to refill this week.
> I only found a quick mention of your fixture on page 16. I think it's over my head. May have StevesLED's build me a supplemental fixture to go with the Beamsworks and call it a day. Its $350 for a 48" with 42 Luxeon LED's. I'm thinking the heavy magenta photosynthesis enhancing combo is pretty much exactly what they need. Just not sure what to run as primary. How did you choose how many LED's, size, and all that? Looks like heatsink/ mounting material is the most costly thing


If you view the site from a PC then both of my big threads my tank and LED fixture are in my signature. Buy here's the link to it all. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...uccess-includes-par-data.html#/topics/1111450

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## The Dude1

Lol.... I dont know how I missed that. My brain is fried... I feel likemy brain is a trashcan and I'm standing on trashbags (class material) trying to pack it in. I would absolutely buy as many Kerri and Cardinals as we could fit into a box. I think with styrofoam and cold packs they should be ok Priority.


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## chayos00

I ordered some fresh macro fertilizers from Green Leaf Aquariums, as they seem to have the best price that I can find online. But I ordered 3lbs of each fert from them to keep me good for quite some time since I ordered the micro's as well in large amounts. 

However I think I have part of my dosing pump issue figured out. I placed the tubing directly in the liquid ferts and I'm getting far less bubbles in my air lines. So I'm going to see if I can silicone the fert tanks around the fittings when I make fresh ferts. If that doesn't work, I'm going to mix 1g bottles and DIY my own containers for ferts. 

Also my glowlight breeding project is a failure. The last female died and then I lost another male after. It seems that the fish don't like being in the plant baskets and don't really eat. I'm thinking I'll make something with eggcrate and then use the knitting mesh to make it where the adults still can't get through. Just want to keep my adults from eating eggs and babies. I'll probably put two or three upright dividers in the setup to allow me a few breeding pairs. Maximum babies! LOL


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## The Dude1

That sucks. Died due to starvation? I've got black eggcrate that is probably too big for Emporers and maybe glowlights. I was going to kind of zip tie a little crate and put it upside down so it only comes up maybe 2-3" from substrate... in fact why dont you put the baskets upside down on the substrate? You may have to trim them down.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> That sucks. Died due to starvation? I've got black eggcrate that is probably too big for Emporers and maybe glowlights. I was going to kind of zip tie a little crate and put it upside down so it only comes up maybe 2-3" from substrate... in fact why dont you put the baskets upside down on the substrate? You may have to trim them down.


I'm not 100% sure, but it's sure possible! The baskets wand to float naturally. Do are you meaning to use them to block the bottom of the tank from the fish? The eggcrate I have is also too big for the fish, but I'll see if I can find some knitting mesh stuff of different sizes to see if I can tighten up the eggcrate gaps to keep adults out. 

I went to the local fish group meeting on Sunday and got a few new plants. My big sword is a bit much, so I'm debating about taking it out and putting it in another tank. I got two other Amazon Swords that are supposed to max out around a foot or so in height. Plus a few others for my 10g tank on my desk to swap out for the micro sword plants that aren't liking that tank. 

So I got about 15lbs of dry chemicals/ferts (3lbs each) delivered today. The DEA is probably watching me now with all my chemical ordering. LOL









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## chayos00

Oh I forget I also got a starter culture of Walter Worms from the DAS meeting for my future breeding project. So now vinegar worms and the Walter worms now. Next I'm going to try green water and see what grows in that. 

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## chayos00

So here's the mermaid weed I have in my tank. You'll notice it's only green in color and very needle like leafs on it. The fish wouldn't stop photobombing me. LoL 
@Greggz



















Went back through my thread and found this image from when I first added it, or shortly there after. 









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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> So here's the mermaid weed I have in my tank. You'll notice it's only green in color and very needle like leafs on it. The fish wouldn't stop photobombing me. LoL
> @Greggz


Wow great example of how different it can look. 

If you let it grow taller and get nearer the light, I am guessing the shape and color will change.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Wow great example of how different it can look.
> 
> If you let it grow taller and get nearer the light, I am guessing the shape and color will change.


I cut the one stem that it started out as in half in hopes to reproduce this plant a bit faster, but I'm going to let these stems grow out to see what they do. Not being able to bump up my lighting without fear of BBA all over again really sucks at the moment. I'm trying to let the stem plants in my tank fill in more to get a higher plant load, which hopefully will help outcompete the algae in the tank!


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## The Dude1

Considering the awesomeness of your build from the stand/canopy, to the sump and LED fixture I think you should just round out this awesome system with a nice UV sterilizer and custom built regulator on a 20lb tank. I dont know if there is a direct correlation, but I've seen a pretty drastic reduction in BBA since adding the UV sterilizer.

Bump: Also... I'm expecting some of my Ram eggs to hatch in the next couple days. I dont think they'll be big enough to eat BBS. What would you suggest that's relatively easy to culture that would be small enough?? 
For your green water are you just doing a piece of lettuce in some water in the sun or what?


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## Wobblebonk

I just take some water from a heavily stocked tank and put it in a jar in the sun, no lettuce necessary. Could try vinegar eels or if you're lucky the smallest size of golden pearls or repashy powder works sometimes.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Considering the awesomeness of your build from the stand/canopy, to the sump and LED fixture I think you should just round out this awesome system with a nice UV sterilizer and custom built regulator on a 20lb tank. I dont know if there is a direct correlation, but I've seen a pretty drastic reduction in BBA since adding the UV sterilizer.
> 
> Bump: Also... I'm expecting some of my Ram eggs to hatch in the next couple days. I dont think they'll be big enough to eat BBS. What would you suggest that's relatively easy to culture that would be small enough??
> For your green water are you just doing a piece of lettuce in some water in the sun or what?


Yeah UV will probably be next on the list. Just got to start saving for one, as I want the 25w version with hopes that one day I'll find a 180g or a 220-240g tank to replace my 125g. 

For the regulator, as this one is working for me at the moment I'm keeping that as is. LOL But I would totally want to build a SS high quality regulator. 

I've yet to actually feed any fry with the eels. However the monthly meeting talked about different foods. Paramecium is one of the smaller ones, not sure if those can be started from a culture of green water or where, I have yet to look it up. 



Wobblebonk said:


> I just take some water from a heavily stocked tank and put it in a jar in the sun, no lettuce necessary. Could try vinegar eels or if you're lucky the smallest size of golden pearls or repashy powder works sometimes.


I was going to take lettuce and some water from a tank where I can snag some mulm to hope there's buggies in it to grow. 

I've heard about Repashy used too, I've got some of the fry stuff. I saw the recommendation of mixing a bit in a small glass and just pouring it in your tank, not actually making the gel out of it.


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## chayos00

In the last few days I noticed a few of those Orange Von Rio's crashing and then dying. So I figured that finally was my push to put them down. 26 remaining fish, but I do question if they had fish TB. Well... just need to finish letting that tank and equipment soak in the bleach water solution for a full 24hrs and then I'm going to paint the glass black so I can finally get the last two tanks painted. I'm going to shut down all my QT tanks out in the garage and finally get rid of all the snails which could be munching on the fish eggs from the few times I've had hatches of fry. 

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## The Dude1

I thought about your situation the other day. A few days ago I noticed very slight almost saddles on my remaining 3 Lemon tetras as well as 1 Neon. No changes in behavior, and I'm sure it's just my fear of relapse. Days later and gone... I can't remember if I'm on 4 or 5 weeks with no deaths. I know that protozoan and mycobacterium CAN remain dormant for extended periods... so it should not help already infected fish... perhaps the lack of normal bacterial and pathogens is increasing the dormancy period?


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> I thought about your situation the other day. A few days ago I noticed very slight almost saddles on my remaining 3 Lemon tetras as well as 1 Neon. No changes in behavior, and I'm sure it's just my fear of relapse. Days later and gone... I can't remember if I'm on 4 or 5 weeks with no deaths. I know that protozoan and mycobacterium CAN remain dormant for extended periods... so it should not help already infected fish... perhaps the lack of normal bacterial and pathogens is increasing the dormancy period?


Not sure what these saddles are that you are seeing, but assuming it's some bad signs for disease. I'm glad to hear that your fish are doing well again! Aren't you glad you didn't put down all those neon's? With this possible fish TB thing, I believe they said it's another that takes months to show up, which is what I think happened. But oh well, just hope this bleach bath that tank had and all equipment it's gone! But the funny thing is I forgot to drain the tank yesterday, and my black poret foam filter is now white/gray colored LOL. Once I saw that I dropped in some sodium thiosulfate to deactivate the bleach in the tank. Just need to drain and rinse it good and then paint it.


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## chayos00

So I don't know what the F happened!? I went to get the fish out of QT that I had gotten a month ago. Some glowlights, serpae tetras, and the glass bloodfin tetras. So I saw one alive glass bloodfin looking semi "decayed" and another dead one. WTF they have been healthy the whole time!? 

So Saturday I had moved the one tank to sterilize and questioned if somehow bleach got splashed to I gave it a full cap of prime and dumped a scoop of general cure as well as a cap of paraguard in the tank.... I'm saddened by this turn of events! Or more so at a loss of this health issues. I should of done a big water change, but I knee jerk reacted and dumped meds in the tank instead. 

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## The Dude1

Crap dude. I'm sorry. So just those fish affected or did they all die? I'm so apprehensive about buying fish AT ALL after my experience. It's not just the financial loss it's the stress and pain of seeing fish die. Be cautious. Mycobacterium and protozoan pathogens can have substantial dormant periods


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Crap dude. I'm sorry. So just those fish affected or did they all die? I'm so apprehensive about buying fish AT ALL after my experience. It's not just the financial loss it's the stress and pain of seeing fish die. Be cautious. Mycobacterium and protozoan pathogens can have substantial dormant periods


So far I lost the last of my glass bloodfins. I'm down two glowlights and one serpea tetra. The serpeas look okay at the moment, but the Glowlights are starting to show signs of illness. I did a full vac of that tank as there were some bits of decaying food matter and about an 80% WC too yesterday. As now the tank is clean I'll do a 50% WC on it tomorrow and then keep up the meds till things improve. It litterally looks like the fish and their scales are just starting to decay. I tried looking up different diseases but none seem to be spot on. Well guess time will tell WTF is going on with that tank.... 

On another note... don't leave bleach too long with a poret foam sponge filter.... Yeah it turned gray/white and is now kinda sticky to the touch, so gonna have to replace that one. But on the plus side that possible fish TB tank should be sanitized! 

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## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> So far I lost the last of my glass bloodfins. I'm down two glowlights and one serpea tetra. The serpeas look okay at the moment, but the Glowlights are starting to show signs of illness. I did a full vac of that tank as there were some bits of decaying food matter and about an 80% WC too yesterday. As now the tank is clean I'll do a 50% WC on it tomorrow and then keep up the meds till things improve. It litterally looks like the fish and their scales are just starting to decay. I tried looking up different diseases but none seem to be spot on. Well guess time will tell WTF is going on with that tank....
> 
> On another note... don't leave bleach too long with a poret foam sponge filter.... Yeah it turned gray/white and is now kinda sticky to the touch, so gonna have to replace that one. But on the plus side that possible fish TB tank should be sanitized!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Dude.. it's not worth it. From one person with a fully capable lab and the testing skill at their disposal to another. Put the Aqua UV on a 0% credit card... and I DO NOT use credit cards... It is so comforting and consoling... not to mention the financial losses AND the now requisite quarantine time and unavoidable losses. Besides.. I have real interest in getting some of those Kerri's from you. You are ten times the engineer that i am so I'm sure your mounting would be far less intrusive than mine, but man the ugly is worth it. My only regret is i didn't do it earlier.... much earlier. I'd have 500-600 Neons, a breeding group of Nigerian Reds.. my tank would be set and I'd be focused on my Rainbow tank. Do it..


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## Wobblebonk

The Dude1 said:


> Dude.. it's not worth it. From one person with a fully capable lab and the testing skill at their disposal to another. Put the Aqua UV on a 0% credit card... and I DO NOT use credit cards... It is so comforting and consoling... not to mention the financial losses AND the now requisite quarantine time and unavoidable losses. Besides.. I have real interest in getting some of those Kerri's from you. You are ten times the engineer that i am so I'm sure your mounting would be far less intrusive than mine, but man the ugly is worth it. My only regret is i didn't do it earlier.... much earlier. I'd have 500-600 Neons, a breeding group of Nigerian Reds.. my tank would be set and I'd be focused on my Rainbow tank. Do it..


Do you run UV on all your tanks? Just quarantine? Sorry if I am derailing I am curious... I only use a single cheap unit to clear up green water occasionally on like 30 different tanks otherwise it sits in my closet.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Dude.. it's not worth it. From one person with a fully capable lab and the testing skill at their disposal to another. Put the Aqua UV on a 0% credit card... and I DO NOT use credit cards... It is so comforting and consoling... not to mention the financial losses AND the now requisite quarantine time and unavoidable losses. Besides.. I have real interest in getting some of those Kerri's from you. You are ten times the engineer that i am so I'm sure your mounting would be far less intrusive than mine, but man the ugly is worth it. My only regret is i didn't do it earlier.... much earlier. I'd have 500-600 Neons, a breeding group of Nigerian Reds.. my tank would be set and I'd be focused on my Rainbow tank. Do it..


You know it may not be a bad idea to have a small UV unit for my QT tank too.... If I do, I'd try to get this unit. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WRL6KG/ Advantage 15 Watt - Hanger | aquaultraviolet.com The 8w and the 15w one are about the same price on Amazon right now. But can't hurt to run a higher one to "murder" any bugs going through it! However I'll still try to find a 25 watt unit for my DT to keep that tank "sanitized" LOL 

I just hate slapping more to my CC, as it's growing in debt.... 



Wobblebonk said:


> Do you run UV on all your tanks? Just quarantine? Sorry if I am derailing I am curious... I only use a single cheap unit to clear up green water occasionally on like 30 different tanks otherwise it sits in my closet.


He just added one to his DT 150g. Not on his QT's yet. I don't have any myself yet. The cheap units are really only good at clearing green water, if that.


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## Wobblebonk

I admit I would be scared to run the cheap unit 24/7 but it does a competent job clearing green water. 
I am considering adding not cheap units to my sumps and or quarantine tanks.


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## chayos00

Wobblebonk said:


> I admit I would be scared to run the cheap unit 24/7 but it does a competent job clearing green water.
> I am considering adding not cheap units to my sumps and or quarantine tanks.


I wouldn't think there would be an issue to be afraid of running it, but it's just not as "potent" as the better units to kill the "bugs"


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## Wobblebonk

Some people in amazon reviews reported it melted the plastic and killed their tank, I have experienced no such thing but I've only run it maybe 48 hours at a time? I half believe those people were too lazy to open it up and remove the plastic caps they put on to secure the bulb for shipping. To my understanding its ability to kill is basically the rate of flow by the bulb.


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## chayos00

Wobblebonk said:


> Some people in amazon reviews reported it melted the plastic and killed their tank, I have experienced no such thing but I've only run it maybe 48 hours at a time? I half believe those people were too lazy to open it up and remove the plastic caps they put on to secure the bulb for shipping. To my understanding its ability to kill is basically the rate of flow by the bulb.


Oh man... could also be poorly maintained ones too. Make sure to open it up every so often to wipe the glass case the bulb is in to make sure it's cooling and getting the light out. But yeah I could understand your concern now!


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## The Dude1

Wobblebonk said:


> Do you run UV on all your tanks? Just quarantine? Sorry if I am derailing I am curious... I only use a single cheap unit to clear up green water occasionally on like 30 different tanks otherwise it sits in my closet.


Just my display tank for now. I'll spare you my rhetoric, but as soon as something comes out and is proven to be effective 100 unscrupulous companies make cheap knockoffs based solely on the idea and consumer's ignorance of the requisite parameters. Aqua UV tests their units and posts up ever single variable. They are the only units I'll use. I plan to buy 3 more. 1 for my upcoming 265, 1 for a QT tank, and one more that I will set up like on my 150 current display tank that is easily transferred. 
I wouldn't use another brand if it was given to me. People spend as much on an FX6 as I'll have in 3 more Aqua UV units. When you factor in the potential loss in livestock and meds it's a pretty simple choice for us planted tank guys. The plants and inverts we typically house preclude most meds to start with.

Bump:


Wobblebonk said:


> Some people in amazon reviews reported it melted the plastic and killed their tank, I have experienced no such thing but I've only run it maybe 48 hours at a time? I half believe those people were too lazy to open it up and remove the plastic caps they put on to secure the bulb for shipping. To my understanding its ability to kill is basically the rate of flow by the bulb.


Its wavelength, intensity, and dwell time. Different for each pathogen. Most of the knockoffs aren't going to do much more than clear up some simple algae types.


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## chayos00

So on Friday I got my water bill.... They keep upping my rates and over the last two years my water use rate has increased too. This bill indicated 13,000 gallons!? I also just fixed my backyard drip irrigation system and had it watering 2x a day to give the plants a kick in the butt to grow again. I'm starting to question using EI dosing and maybe back to PPS-PRO dosing again to go to either an every other week or once a month water changes to cut back on water use. However just doing the math and assuming about 200g per water change in RO and waste water that's only about a difference of about 666 gallons a month (rough estimate). Granted that doesn't seem like much of a savings now that I broke it down..... 

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## The Dude1

I would never have believed it if I hadn't investigated like 20 legit thefts of water. I'm not saying that is what happened to you, but it happens more than you think. I've seen video of people going house to house running houses and filling up massive water tanks. Caught one guy who used his neighbors spicket T'ed off under the house to fill his pool! And he admitted to doing it the previous year!


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## Wobblebonk

Hah my hose bib broke and I haven't gotten it fixed because I caught my neighbor stealing my water before... they just ****ing left it open (could have easily been kids too) one time also, and I don't really have much of a yard anyhow


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## chayos00

Oh man! Kinda makes me want to take off my knob on my hose bib. But based on my year round averages it's high, but pretty sure it's right. However I have questioned how they bill me. I'm pretty sure sometimes they skip getting the info from my meter some months as I get duplicate cost and usage bills and then they seem to correct the next bill for a higher usage than assumed. 

I just said something to my wife while we were just eating dinner and she was like "it's all your damned water changes". LOL 

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## jbvamos

Doesn’t seem like it would, but a running toilet will run up a bill like that.


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## chayos00

Yeah a leak can add up for sure! However luckily I know my toilets or sinks don't have a leaking problem, well.... the kitchen faucet is starting to, but I always make sure it's not dripping before walking away. Damned hard water ruining seals! LOL I have thought about checking my water meter to make sure nothing is leaking, but it's just so damned hot outside to want to go open that water box. I'll do it probably later in the week when it's back in the 90's vs 110ish outside.

So I had a guy come out today from the local Water Tec company to give a an estimate to install their water softener and told me about $1400 for their setup using the good quality Clack valves. But I tell you damned if I wasn't thinking about one of those big box store setups for $400-500 instead, but I really think twice about the lower quality big box store setups..... I just wish quality didn't cost so damned much! Just part of my need for my RO setup and well.... I wanted one anyways that I've been trying to talk the wife into letting me get! HAHAHA


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## chayos00

A month or two ago (when I last cleaned my poret foam) I started to use a layer of polyfill before my poret foam as a bit of a prefilter. I've noticed that in just a week it's pretty funky (goes from white to pretty blackish) and usually can handle one blasting with the hose to rinse it before replacing ti the follow week. Anyone that does this find this pretty normal? 

Also just changed out my 800mL of purigen for two new packs of 500mL each purigen (1 500mL bottle in a seachem bag). Those used up ones were pretty brown. I'm thinking I might just get another 1000mL of purigen and just retire the older purigen packs. The older ones get dark, but there just seems to be a bit of a tint to my water lately. However, my lights are mostly at a stage between sunrise and sunset. So it could just be an illusion.


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## vvDO

chayos00 said:


> A month or two ago (when I last cleaned my poret foam) I started to use a layer of polyfill before my poret foam as a bit of a prefilter. I've noticed that in just a week it's pretty funky (goes from white to pretty blackish) and usually can handle one blasting with the hose to rinse it before replacing ti the follow week. Anyone that does this find this pretty normal?
> 
> 
> 
> Also just changed out my 800mL of purigen for two new packs of 500mL each purigen (1 500mL bottle in a seachem bag). Those used up ones were pretty brown. I'm thinking I might just get another 1000mL of purigen and just retire the older purigen packs. The older ones get dark, but there just seems to be a bit of a tint to my water lately. However, my lights are mostly at a stage between sunrise and sunset. So it could just be an illusion.




I have poly fill in most of my filters, they clog up pretty quick and junky in less than a week. I rinse them out in aquarium water when I water change, and keep reusing until they start to get hard and clumpy. I was thinking of setting up a poly fill pre-filter for a canister, just worried I’d have to clean it out 2 times a week to keep good flow so I’m holding on that idea.


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## chayos00

vvDO said:


> I have poly fill in most of my filters, they clog up pretty quick and junky in less than a week. I rinse them out in aquarium water when I water change, and keep reusing until they start to get hard and clumpy. I was thinking of setting up a poly fill pre-filter for a canister, just worried I’d have to clean it out 2 times a week to keep good flow so I’m holding on that idea.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to know! I was wondering if it was a bit high for how fast it got funky! 

(Thought I posted this the other day, Taptalk told me I had a saved post)

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## chayos00

Last night did my weekly water change. Cleaned the poret again, which wasn't near as bad as I did it last time. So might need to hose these more often. Or at least the 30ppi needs it monthly. However I also wondered if I got a sheet of 1" thick poret of either 30 or 45ppi as a prefilter to rinse once a week vs the polyfilter. 

As I had noted that my water color seemed off on a previous post, I think I realized what it actually is. As I cleaned out the sump, I also drained extra tank water into the sump so I could expose more plants to spray with an H2O2 and Glut mix, I realized that the water is a bit yellow colored. From I believe the micro mix of fertilizers. 

I also wanted to share my mermaid weed. As of this week, it seemed to become unhappy and both stems lost most of their leafs. 










My blyxa japonica seems to be doing much better with my CO2 addition, it's spreading more like grass finally! 










Also my sword shot an extension off that's reaching out of the water but it's producing baby plants now too, so neat to see! 










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## skiman

Wow - can't wait to digest all 45 pages over time. Your tank looks immaculately clean in the first images. Gratz on sticking with a long term project. +1 sub


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## chayos00

skiman said:


> Wow - can't wait to digest all 45 pages over time. Your tank looks immaculately clean in the first images. Gratz on sticking with a long term project. +1 sub


Thank you! The major parts of the build/setup are on the first page on this thread. Tried to do a condensed version for those like you coming across this thread after some time.


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## chayos00

Water change night again. Nothing eventful this time. I finally did try my last fix for my fertilizer reservoirs. I was able to unscrew the straws and put a dab of 100% silicone to try and seal things up for the straws. If this doesn't work I'm going to get 1 gallon jugs and DIY my own reservoirs. 










I got word that my 250g vertical water storage tank should hopefully be trucked out next week. Time will tell as it sounds like the company has had some issues with that. So guess it's time to put my thinking cap on to setup my RO water change system into place. 

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## chayos00

So far the fix to the reservoirs seem to be working for my fertilizers! Score one for me! I'll probably switch it back to it's original tubing to see how it works.

Caught my pea puffers in action today trying to mate with the female in the tank. 

*Pea Puffer Mating Actions Video 1 Click Me*

*Pea Puffer Mating Actions Video 2 Click Me*


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## chayos00

*08/06/2018 - Day 525*

Picture update time

08/06/2018 FTS - Day 525 by chayos00, on Flickr

08/06/2018 Left Side by chayos00, on Flickr

08/06/2018 Center by chayos00, on Flickr

08/06/2018 Right Side by chayos00, on Flickr

Here's some fish! Sure is a pain to get good pics of these guys, think I deleted about 50 pics to settle for these clearest ones below. 

Pea Puffer by chayos00, on Flickr

Pea Puffer by chayos00, on Flickr

Cardinal by chayos00, on Flickr

Glass Bloodfin by chayos00, on Flickr

Kerri Tetra by chayos00, on Flickr

Kerri Tetra by chayos00, on Flickr


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## Marc Davis

Well......im supposed to be working, but I've just looked through nearly all 45 pages and its been a great read. 

Really love the tank and your carpentry skills are right up there!

I've just started a tiny Walstad tank (see signature) that i was quite proud of but not anymore haha. Great work.


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## vvDO

Love the pea puffers oh yeah and the scape too!


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## The Dude1

It's looking fantastic! They ferns are getting really dense and the blyxa looks awesome


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## Ben Belton

Your tank has really come a long way since your got your CO2 going. The Buces look like they have taken off. I know it is a great feeling for you.


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## chayos00

Marc Davis said:


> Well......im supposed to be working, but I've just looked through nearly all 45 pages and its been a great read.
> 
> Really love the tank and your carpentry skills are right up there!
> 
> I've just started a tiny Walstad tank (see signature) that i was quite proud of but not anymore haha. Great work.


Just opened your thread to take a peak! Thank for the compliments! Always be proud of what you have! I still feel my setup could improve greatly! 



vvDO said:


> Love the pea puffers oh yeah and the scape too!


I sure do love these guys too, lots of personalities! Maybe I can get them to breed and put all the babies in my 100g out in the garage for a cool tank! Fingers crossed!



The Dude1 said:


> It's looking fantastic! They ferns are getting really dense and the blyxa looks awesome


Yeah they sure are. I'll probably thin out he blyxa for the local meeting on Sunday if I can get to it, depends on the wife as she works Friday night and Saturday night. 



Ben Belton said:


> Your tank has really come a long way since your got your CO2 going. The Buces look like they have taken off. I know it is a great feeling for you.


Thanks and here I was thinking the buce wasn't doing squat! LOL 

Thank you all for the kind words! It really makes it feel good hearing this! Now I just can't wait for the damned BBA to be all gone so I can try bumping up my lighting again and so on!


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## Greggz

Nice pics Chayos00!!

Hope you beat the BBA, but in the meantime tank is still looking great!


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## chayos00

Did another big drain last night and tried to directly spray all the tank again for the BBA. Here's to hoping I got it all! I need to pick up a few more jugs of H2O2 so I can spot treat again.









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## Discusluv

*Chayos00's 125g tank journal (Updated 08/06/2018)*



chayos00 said:


> Did another big drain last night and tried to directly spray all the tank again for the BBA. Here's to hoping I got it all! I need to pick up a few more jugs of H2O2 so I can spot treat again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




The tank is beautiful, of course, but I’m always first drawn to fish— especially tetras. Loving the Kerri Tetra. Appears to be a dark blue line with lavender-ish body. 
Can you tell me about them: 
I have heard they have some con- specific aggression - have you noticed that any more than other tetras have had? 
How many do you have- do they school tightly, loosely, or more shoaling? 
Have they been hearty? Are they tank-raised or wild? 



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## chayos00

Discusluv said:


> The tank is beautiful, of course, but I’m always first drawn to fish— especially tetras. Loving the Kerri Tetra. Appears to be a dark blue line with lavender-ish body.
> Can you tell me about them:
> I have heard they have some con- specific aggression - have you noticed that any more than other tetras have had?
> How many do you have- do they school tightly, loosely, or more shoaling?
> Have they been hearty? Are they tank-raised or wild?


To start I had about 3 survive when I ordered these guys and the rest you see in my tanks are the babies of those parents. I got my order from LiveAquaria.com so not sure but guessing tank raised from there. There was about 60+ in the tank but I think I'm closer to 40ish now. They do school tightly together at times and that's pretty neat to see when they do, it kind of varies during the day. These guys have never been sick. I honestly haven't noticed any aggressive behaviors with these guys, could be they are all born together or just that there's so many. They are a pretty fish for sure! I do love that blue/purple hue to them! 

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## Discusluv

chayos00 said:


> To start I had about 3 survive when I ordered these guys and the rest you see in my tanks are the babies of those parents. I got my order from LiveAquaria.com so not sure but guessing tank raised from there. There was about 60+ in the tank but I think I'm closer to 40ish now. They do school tightly together at times and that's pretty neat to see when they do, it kind of varies during the day. These guys have never been sick. I honestly haven't noticed any aggressive behaviors with these guys, could be they are all born together or just that there's so many. They are a pretty fish for sure! I do love that blue/purple hue to them!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Ah! So they bred in the display tank and fry survived despite other fish or did you have them in a breeder tank alone? 


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## chayos00

Discusluv said:


> Ah! So they bred in the display tank and fry survived despite other fish or did you have them in a breeder tank alone?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I actually had them out in a 20g tank. A single female and two males. Lots of peat moss in the tank too. It should be documented somewhere towards the end of last year to the beginning of this year. I may be trying again to breed them when I return at the end of September. There was a local guy wanting 100 of them and maybe TheDude1.

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## Discusluv

chayos00 said:


> I actually had them out in a 20g tank. A single female and two males. Lots of peat moss in the tank too. It should be documented somewhere towards the end of last year to the beginning of this year. I may be trying again to breed them when I return at the end of September. There was a local guy wanting 100 of them and maybe TheDude1.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Oh, okay- I’ll look for that thread. This would be the perfect fish for @The Dude1 to breed for his 150. I think he did pick up some recently to begin breeding. Thanks for the info. I have some Hyphessobrycon nigricinctus that I would like to try breeding - I may try duplicating your methods. 


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## The Dude1

Discusluv said:


> Oh, okay- I’ll look for that thread. This would be the perfect fish for @The Dude1 to breed for his 150. I think he did pick up some recently to begin breeding. Thanks for the info. I have some Hyphessobrycon nigricinctus that I would like to try breeding - I may try duplicating your methods.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Ya I would love a group of those. I can tell you my Emporer tetras Nematobrycon palmeri are very aggressive. They also eat hygro and young anubias leaves with substantial enthusiasm. I've got them with my Rainbows, but no way am I letting them tear up my 150. They sure do look fantastic with those black neons. Fantastic choice of fish... 
How often are you vacuuming gravel. In my battles with BBA I've found that you really have to go berserk with gravel vacs (every week) and I clean at least 1 filter every week now. Its brutal to fight it once you've got it. I've been picking out single pieces of eco complete with BBA in them for weeks... I've got about 3 cups worth... and I'm picking these pieces out one by one!!!


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Ya I would love a group of those. I can tell you my Emporer tetras Nematobrycon palmeri are very aggressive. They also eat hygro and young anubias leaves with substantial enthusiasm. I've got them with my Rainbows, but no way am I letting them tear up my 150. They sure do look fantastic with those black neons. Fantastic choice of fish...
> How often are you vacuuming gravel. In my battles with BBA I've found that you really have to go berserk with gravel vacs (every week) and I clean at least 1 filter every week now. Its brutal to fight it once you've got it. I've been picking out single pieces of eco complete with BBA in them for weeks... I've got about 3 cups worth... and I'm picking these pieces out one by one!!!


For the gravel vac side of things I've done it a few times but never really get much from the sand. Not sure if it's because of the MTS in there or not. However I do need to get a bigger gravel vac as the one I have is a pretty small one. 

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## chayos00

So my 250 gal RO storage water tank has delivered to the place I ordered it from. So I guess it's time to get to work getting it setup! Gonna need to order my prefilters for the whole house to remove sediment from the water down to at least 5 micros. I talked to the water softener guy again and got him down from $1400 with install to $945 with me doing the install, but they will set it up. This is with an additional 10% off if another buddy of mine also gets one too. It's a dual canister setup using a Clack WS1 controller. 

Also I'm noticing a few more critters getting to my sump. I'm gonna have to find something to stop them again, but less visible if I can. Fished this guy out of the sump today along with some Amano's.









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## chayos00

Got the RO tank today. This thing seem such bigger than what it measures. Kinda hard to want to go spend more money to get the other needed items like the big blue filters and softener before vacation that's to an expensive place, or based on what it cost us last time we went where we are going. At least I'm gonna have a full week off when I get back that I can get my plumbing done for the RO water system/water change setup. I go back and forth on my plumbing size for the fill and drain. Thinking probably an inch ID for the plumbing and the I question do I go hard plumbed PVC or PEX. LOL I do also want to run a line over to my small garage on the other side of the house where my QT tanks are which between the 5 tanks I have 180g of water volume. 1x 100g and 4x 20g tanks.









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## Mike A.

That's a nice tank. 

PEX is a lot easier than hard PVC. Especially if it's not a straight run(s) and you have to work around and through areas. A little bit of a learning curve getting started if you've never used it but not too bad.


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## The Dude1

Are you just using that to store RODI water. Then use a pump to pump it from there into the tank?


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## zemnar

Amazing, great job!


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## chayos00

Mike A. said:


> That's a nice tank.
> 
> PEX is a lot easier than hard PVC. Especially if it's not a straight run(s) and you have to work around and through areas. A little bit of a learning curve getting started if you've never used it but not too bad.


Thanks! The runs to my main tank are going to be straight runs. I thought about running a PEX line out to my other garage so I can do WC's easily on those tanks too. 


The Dude1 said:


> Are you just using that to store RODI water. Then use a pump to pump it from there into the tank?


Bingo! It's gonna be much better than hauling 55g of water via 5g buckets! LOL


zemnar said:


> Amazing, great job!


Thanks!

So I cleaned up the tank yesterday and filled it to leak check it. Around the 190g level there happens to be a pinhole leak.... @$_-#+%¥£π÷€×!!!! Ugh.... So tomorrow I'm going to contact the place I bought it from, brand new, and see if I can't get them to replace the tank. If it comes down to it, as a last resort I will have them plastic weld it, but only if swapping it is out of the question. I will really fight for them to replace the tank though. 

But time to get the 20" big blue filters ordered so I can also filter my whole house water too. I want to take the whole house down to 5 microns which will feed the softener and then to the RO system. 

I'm thinking of using 1" PVC for the lines going to the display tank for the fill and the drain. I'll have to take the drain line over to the vent line going to the roof for the washing machine which the laundry room is to the back side of the tank. I'll have to see how I can transition the plumbing from one to the next pipe. Probably be smart to add a T to drain the tube for winter time, but not really a problem here in Arizona.
















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## chayos00

Edit - Thought I had posted this earlier. 

"I emailed Stephan Tanner @ SwissTropicals and asked about using 45ppi poret foam as a pre filter like you would with polyfilter and said I would probably clean it weekly with my water changes. He said that it would actually filter better than poly and so I placed an order for a 2" sheet of the 45ppi poret foam along with a replacement 5x5x5 sponge filter for my QT tank I melted with bleach on accident. I was half tempted to get his mattenfilter setup for the 20g tanks, but those were $30 a pop and I didn't want to spend that much at this time for all 4 QT tanks to have replaced vs their already there sponge filters. "

I was cleaning up my Java Fern from some that took a hit when I sprayed H2O2 and Glut a few weeks back during a water change. Plus just cleaning up some funky dying leafs. However I thought well as most pictures are of tanks in their prime figured I would share a messy picture. LOL









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## chayos00

I talked to the guy about the tank and he was very gung-ho about fixing the tank. I let him try it and he was out about an hour later and I've already filled the tank and it's not leaking. I still have it filled to make sure nothing will show up later.

Picture of the patch job. Pretty neat to see and fast. A router with a special attachment and a plastic plug and about 10 seconds later it's friction welded together. 










I've also decided to declare war on the remaining BBA in my tank and nuked what I can see yesterday and today. Fingers crossed that's it! I'll do any again tomorrow that's not bright red. Hahaha 

Also my mermaid weed is coming back! One stem disappeared and this is the original stem that was left. I've seen it grow in size the last few days.











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## The Dude1

That just pisses me off.. all the money you spent on that thing and you had to repair a leak?! Someone needs to compensate you. 10-20% at least. Something...
I cringe when I see H2O2... I finally irradicated 99% of the BBA in my tanks. I had to clean filters, gravel vac, dip epiphytic plants and driftwood weekly. I also pulled out any substrate with BBA DAILY... poured straight H202 into the gallon bag and giggled with delight as it fizzled for nearly an hour... DIE BBA.... DIE.....
I'm excited to see how you plumb this. It sounds like you're hard plumbing it??


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> That just pisses me off.. all the money you spent on that thing and you had to repair a leak?! Someone needs to compensate you. 10-20% at least. Something...
> I cringe when I see H2O2... I finally irradicated 99% of the BBA in my tanks. I had to clean filters, gravel vac, dip epiphytic plants and driftwood weekly. I also pulled out any substrate with BBA DAILY... poured straight H202 into the gallon bag and giggled with delight as it fizzled for nearly an hour... DIE BBA.... DIE.....
> I'm excited to see how you plumb this. It sounds like you're hard plumbing it??


Yeah, I folded and let the guy repair the factory flaw in it. I'm sure he jumped on that as he knows it's probably a PITA otherwise to get the MFG to replace it. I bet they would want to do the same as he did thinking about it now with how easy it is to fix. 

I'm going to order a bigger gravel vac as mine is like 1" in diameter and like 6" tall and has a 1/2'' hose on it. I've been trying to clean my filter media every few weeks as it's a PITA to bang out and clean. I just got a 2" sheet of Poret 45ppi foam that should help with that, as I'll clean it each or every other water change, depending how it does. 

For the RO tank, I need some sort of non hard plumbed line coming out of it before I can go with a hard line. So I'm thinking I'll run 1" PVC inside the garage for the most part of the fill/drain lines, then plan a little more on the inside how I'm going to plumb it, with either braided tubing like I have on some of my sump or PEX, not sure there. I was looking at sump pumps for the pumping the water out and up the 10' wall and to have a decent flow rate, that's going to be a $200 pump. So I'm thinking I'll run it along the edge in my garage and plumb it to go out right in front of the garage door, but just enough to the side for the wife not to hit it when pulling in. I'm needing to draw up some plans so I can see what I need, but I've got most of it planned out already in my head.


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> For the RO tank, I need some sort of non hard plumbed line coming out of it before I can go with a hard line. So I'm thinking I'll run 1" PVC inside the garage for the most part of the fill/drain lines, then plan a little more on the inside how I'm going to plumb it, with either braided tubing like I have on some of my sump or PEX, not sure there. I was looking at sump pumps for the pumping the water out and up the 10' wall and to have a decent flow rate, that's going to be a $200 pump.


You could get by with less than $200.00. Here is the one I am using, 1/4 HP and I am lifting it up about 12'. Or even a 1/3 or 1/2 HP is not much more.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X05G1A/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And if you have never used PEX, it's MUCH easier to work with than anything else. Quick fittings and a little flex makes the work go fast.

Good luck on the project, and looking forward to seeing how you finish it.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> You could get by with less than $200.00. Here is the one I am using, 1/4 HP and I am lifting it up about 12'. Or even a 1/3 or 1/2 HP is not much more.
> 
> And if you have never used PEX, it's MUCH easier to work with than anything else. Quick fittings and a little flex makes the work go fast.
> 
> Good luck on the project, and looking forward to seeing how you finish it.


Yeah I was going over your RO setup posts to try and figure out how you did yours. I noticed the mentioned pump and tried to think of how I could use a regular (read non fish related) sump pump from home depot, but not sure how I would use most of those from outside the storage tank to be used in line with the plumbing. If the storage tank had a wider top lid (8" opening) then I might have done one as I could get in it to replace it. My buddy who's our local club president has a 350g tank with a 22" lid he can get in with. 

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## chayos00

I've done a preliminary drawing, one shows the whole house spindown filter I'm going to use, a 30 micron and then a 15 micron one. Then for the softwater loop section, I'm not 100% on what to do there yet, but I'll show a rough lay out of my plan. 

Spindown - Whole house









Rest of the plans.


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## chayos00

Finally got my real gravel vac, it's a 2" x 16" tube, vs the tiny 1.5" x 6" tube I had for my 10g tank. I went over the entire tank to vacuum the sand again. I went all the way down to the bottom of the tank to make sure I got it all. I actually forgot I used egg crate to cover the bottom of the tank to keep the rocks from damaging the glass. 

Since I pulled up some plants to gravel vacuum the sand, I moved some plants around and took out the Bacopa from the tank. Which it seems like the Bacopa didn't like my last fertilizer change. I'm gonna have to go back and figure out what I changed again and figure out what should be my best option moving forward.









Did about 20-30g worth of water even after Friday's water change. It also appears all the BBA that I can see is either white or reddish in color. Hopefully I have the BBA under control. I also decided to do a siesta for my photo period. I adjusted the StormX controller to shut down 2hrs later and then I adjusted the timer on the power supply to cut out two hours from 1-3pm. I also cut the CO2 from 1pm to 2:30pm.


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## chayos00

I had noticed the Bacopa had some odd growth after my last fertilizer update. But I thought I was dosing at my 30 day dose which is supposed to be at 50mL a day, however I for some reason used the 30mL dose rate for my 50 day ratio of ferts that I'm mixing up today (but had weighted out). I had decreased the K rate from where it wanted to be with the same rates, so I also brought the numbers back up. I had 35 NO3, 8.4 PO4, and *35 K*. I adjusted the numbers back to 35 NO3, 8.4 PO4, and *43.7 K*. 

Macro
Original daily dosing. KNO3 - 3.2 NO3, KH2PO4 - 0.6 PO4, K2SO4 - 3.2 K, MGSO4 - 2 Mg.
Current daily dosing. KNO3 - 5 NO3, KH2PO4 - 1.2 PO4, K2SO4 - 2.6 K (2.8 is max solubility), MGSO4 - 2 Mg.

Micro - Current
DTPA Fe (11%) - 0.2 Fe
MnSO4.H2O - 0.08 Mn
ZnSO4.H2O - 0.05 Zn
Na2MoO4.2H2O - 0.0015 Mo
CuSO4.5H2O - 0.002 Cu
NiSO4.6H2O - 0.0005 Ni
H3BO3 - 0.032

Hope my rambling makes sense... LOL 

So while I'm gone on vacation, as it will be two weeks, I'm going to cut my dose rate by 40% due to not being able to do water changes, but I'll have someone here feeding the fish using a pill box for certain days as well as topping off the water once a week as needed.


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## chayos00

chayos00 said:


> I thought I was dosing at my 30 day dose which is supposed to be at 50mL a day, however I for some reason used the 30mL dose rate for my 50 day ratio of ferts that I'm mixing up today (but had weighted out).


Turns out after going to adjust the Jebao doser, I really was dosing the correct amount. Must have been the fert mix it didn't like from the change.


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## Phil Edwards

Heya Chayos. I've got a bunch of different porosity Poret. If you ever feel the need to get more, or try finer pores shoot me a message.


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## chayos00

Phil Edwards said:


> Heya Chayos. I've got a bunch of different porosity Poret. If you ever feel the need to get more, or try finer pores shoot me a message.


Thanks Phil! Good to know, also there is smaller that 45ppi?? I had been thinking about doing matten filters on my breeder tanks, but at the price for four of them figured the poret 5" cubes currently in use would stay in there for good. 

Speaking of 45 ppi, I rinsed out the 45ppi sheet I was using a prefilter and there was a TON of gunk from just one week of running. So good to know it works and didn't seem to clog during the week. Which it seems to handle 1300gph along with my normal running of 910gph without showing signs of restricting flow at all. When I get back from Hawaii, we will see what 2 weeks worth of gunk looks like. 

Speaking of being gone, I found some large pill boxes for fish food and measured out amounts for my friend who's staying at our place to feed my fishies. Doing a feed two days then skip one schedule to hopefully keep "pollution" to a minimum. I tried testing out two Eheim feeder (single chamber rotating one and a twin screw one) and that only seemed to work best with the little round pellet food. Flake food sucks with it, unless feeding a tiny amount, where as I give about a tablespoon of flake food that is devoured in about a minute or two and then some other sinking food for my bottom feeders. So pill boxes it is for my tank. Plus the frozen for the pea puffers. 

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## chayos00

All was good while I was off to Hawaii! Tank did fine! A few stems were quite long, but trimmed and put back in the sand. There was a dead fish my friend told me about, not sure what it was. Plus when I got back I saw a meaty remain stuck to the overflow mesh. Eh... Not much I could do about those guys. 

So I boosted my CO2 (80cc/min) Friday and my lighting to 250% of my 15 par average that I had been running. The BBA has come back, even though I split my photoperiod before I left for two weeks. Figured if lower lighting and CO2 wasn't cutting it, let's push up those plants and see what that change brings. I'm pulling 147 watts from the lights now, was (I think) 50-60w before. 

I did a water change on Tuesday as I just did t have time on Monday after getting back then another one today during the siesta. Wife's out of town at a friend's wedding, so kind of hard with two kiddos running around too. 

I got started with my soon to be water softener and RO setup. Got the whole house spin down filter installed today after numerous trips to Lowe's and Home Depot. The main water line is 1" and I saw two lines coming from the mains in the attic. I assumed both were 1", but the hard water loop line was 3/4", talk about being pissed I didn't look to determine that before 11pm in the attic on a Friday night covered in sweat from my still 90°F+ attic temps. Had to get wet wipes to "bathe" myself before going to bed so I could get the kids going to the store in the morning so I could get my 1" x 3/4" PEX adapter that I didn't know I needed till I was about to cut the smaller line. Either way a few extra fittings and some extra pipe later the two 30 micron and 15 micron filters are installed and doing their thing. 

FYI - Get straight runs of PEX vs a loop of that crap, PITA to straighten and then it ends up bending back to curved after some time.... 

Access to this is in the garage, and as I back in I can see it, so if it's getting sediment I can flush it. Needed a few shut off valves to regular flush it and back flush it. 









Attic access, tight squeeze crawling in the small area to lay across the joists to be able to work. (Orange lines are the fire system lines.)









Close up, I added the white pipes. (Orange lines are the fire system lines.)









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## chayos00

Here's a few shots (from my phone, hope they look okay) of the tank from today after boosting my lighting. I did notice some pearling too! 

FTS


















Left side









Middle









Right Side









Mermaid Weed slowly coming back!











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## The Dude1

Wow it's really looking awesome!! Looks like you've definitely gotten ahead of the BBA! That group of Kerri tetras really pop and give the entire tank such a beautiful cohesive look. Is that all anubias nana petite all over the wood? Its grown in beautifully. Perhaps I need to get some to accomplish what I had hoped the bucephelandra would do.


----------



## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Wow it's really looking awesome!! Looks like you've definitely gotten ahead of the BBA! That group of Kerri tetras really pop and give the entire tank such a beautiful cohesive look. Is that all anubias nana petite all over the wood? Its grown in beautifully. Perhaps I need to get some to accomplish what I had hoped the bucephelandra would do.


Don't speak too soon about that BBA, it's got little bits ALL over the tank again. Shocking how in two weeks it does that. LOL Well... Not really. Gonna give this 2 weeks to see how taking the lights to 250% of my pre CO2 levels and see what that does. Should be good for 30-45 par is my guess, I was at 15 at the substrate pre CO2. Part of me wants to get a PAR meter, but my wallet says no. LOL Same with the UV filter. 

Yup that log is mainly nana and a few bigger spurts of Anubis. My buce isn't hardly doing anything either, kind of annoying! I'm hoping the boost of par will help, but who knows. 

I'll go back in and do a full tank nuke for the BBA, let's hope when it does it stays dead this time! If not, I'll drop the light on time and see what that does. 

Speaking of the Kerri's, turns out it was an LFS that wanted a hundred of them and would not pay more than $1 per fish. Sorry, not when they retail for $3 per fish, I'm not a wholesaler breeder. LOL

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## riggles17

I bothered you previously about your light build, now I'm going to bug you about something else (this time I'm actually going to build it I swear lol).

I'd like to build an overflow like you have there. I have a DCP-15000 return I'm going to run around 50% and I'll have 3-4 ft of head pressure on it. I'm guessing I'll be coming in right around 1000-1250 gph which is good for my tank which is the same size as yours. How do you find the 1.5" bulkhead being reduced down to 1" tubing for the siphon to work? Quiet enough for your liking? 

If you were to build the box again, would you keep it the same size as you have now? I wouldn't mind making my internal box a bit longer, but if your surface skimming is good then I can rest easy in the sizing. 

You used 6mm acrylic, do you think it needs to be any thicker? Anything you would do differently I'd like to hear now before I get going! I'm sure I'll hit you with a few more questions before my box is done. I have planned out an external glass box but I love the idea of the acrylic boxes instead. My concerns are obviously the same as anyone elses - leaks, and the size. I need thick glass, and a wider box than you have for your tank in order to use 1.5" bulkheads safely.

Any input is greatly appreciated buddy. Btw, an updated YouTube video on the puffers would be cool!

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


----------



## chayos00

riggles17 said:


> I bothered you previously about your light build, now I'm going to bug you about something else (this time I'm actually going to build it I swear lol).
> 
> I'd like to build an overflow like you have there. I have a DCP-15000 return I'm going to run around 50% and I'll have 3-4 ft of head pressure on it. I'm guessing I'll be coming in right around 1000-1250 gph which is good for my tank which is the same size as yours. How do you find the 1.5" bulkhead being reduced down to 1" tubing for the siphon to work? Quiet enough for your liking?
> 
> *So for a 1" line I max out around my 3-4 speed, which is between 911gph - 1038gph. So if you are possibly going more than that, I might up your tubing size. I honestly questioned about changing mine out to 1.5, however it may be smarter going to 1.25 for me since it might handle 100% flow, however it may be smarter to just go 1.5" overall and be done with it. That I do know can handle the 1387gph I max out at, as I have plugged my overflows to test things out, but if I recall correctly, some air still does go down that tube with my max flow. With my style of overflow and plumbing the only noise I do get is the occasional sound either from the overflow or the sump with how I have designed my setup. Nothing as far as I can tell with the plumbing. But I would say it's pretty quiet. I now get more noise from the CO2 being injected to the reactor.*
> 
> If you were to build the box again, would you keep it the same size as you have now? I wouldn't mind making my internal box a bit longer, but if your surface skimming is good then I can rest easy in the sizing.
> 
> *If I redid the box, I would tweak my teeth depth and the width between openings. I think I went three blade widths wide, I would rather do either 1-2 blade widths wide for the teeth opening to keep shrimp and fish from going down the drain. For the width of the overflow box, I wouldn't change it, unless you want it for the shorter water depth the teeth would skim the water (more area for teeth openings to pull water, so a shorter rise up the teeth to skim the same amount of water. But the size of my overflow does skim the surface well when I don't have the SS mesh over it to stop fish from taking a swim in the plumbing. When I previously took the SS mesh off, the surface film that I couldn't get rid of cleared in about a minute from the entire tank. My biggest complaint is I can see the water level in the tank when it's running, so shorter teeth would be my preference. I just would like to bring that water level up a touch. Maybe cut them a 1/4" - 1/2" shorter than you think to keep the water level hidden behind the tank rim.*
> 
> You used 6mm acrylic, do you think it needs to be any thicker? Anything you would do differently I'd like to hear now before I get going! I'm sure I'll hit you with a few more questions before my box is done. I have planned out an external glass box but I love the idea of the acrylic boxes instead. My concerns are obviously the same as anyone elses - leaks, and the size. I need thick glass, and a wider box than you have for your tank in order to use 1.5" bulkheads safely.
> 
> *Nope the thickness is good where it's at, I used a brace across the overflow to prevent any possible flexing. IMO it would be easier to use acrylic for both boxes, I used the same size between the two. But be sure to give it some sort of bracing under it to prevent any sag when the box is full. However I am using 1.5" bulkheads through the tank for the boxes, so the size I have does work with the bulkheads.*
> 
> Any input is greatly appreciated buddy. Btw, an updated YouTube video on the puffers would be cool!
> 
> *I'll try to do one soon. I'm going to try moving them out to my garage tanks to start a possible breeding. Just have been too busy to get a chance to move them and get the tank prepped. *
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Hello! No worries about being a bother, this is what this forum is all about! Helping one another!  I'll put my responses in your quote above.


----------



## RollaPrime

chayos00 said:


> Here's a few shots (from my phone, hope they look okay) of the tank from today after boosting my lighting. I did notice some pearling too!
> 
> FTS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Left side



Can I ask what your current fish stocking is?


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## chayos00

RollaPrime said:


> Can I ask what your current fish stocking is?


Yeah no problem, so on my first post I keep a stock list and go back and update it every so often. The quote from that post below is accurate. 



chayos00 said:


> Fish List:
> Royal Tetra or Kerri Tetra (Inpaichthys kerri)
> Pristella Tetras (Pristella maxillaris)
> Black Neon Tetra - (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi)
> Glass Bloodfin Tetra - (Prionobrama filigera)
> Rummynose Tetra - (Hemigrammus bleheri)
> Glowlight Tetra - (Hemigrammus erythrozonus)
> Panda Cory - (Corydoras panda)
> Julii Cory - (Corydoras julii)
> Oto - (Otocinclus vittatus)
> Clown Pleco - (Panaque maccus) (Good hiders, haven't seen in like 2 months, hope they are still there)
> Pea Puffers - (Carinotetraodon travancoricus)
> Zebra Loach - (Botia striata)
> Amano Shrimp - (Cardina multidentata)
> 
> Plant List:
> Blyxa Japonica
> Anubias Barteri Var. Nana Petite & some larger ones
> Java Fern needle leaf (they called in long leaf, but it's the skinny leafs looking one I wanted)
> Java Fern
> Echinodorus vesuvius
> Alternanthera reineckii 'cardinalis'
> Amazon Sword
> Amazon Red Sword
> Phoenix moss, Fissidens fontanus


----------



## chayos00

A few updates. So yesterday I went to swap out the 20lb CO2 tank, as I've noticed that the tank pressure is dropping now, so my liquid CO2 is gone, just tank pressure now. Well I get down to the shop and they were closed.... WTF.... Turns out after calling them today, they no longer are open till 5pm, which was perfect for me as I get off work at 4pm. So luckily I have a coworker who will swap shifts with my so I get off work an hour earlier so I can go swap it out. All the other places that are in town also close at mostly 4pm, but one on the FAR south side of town closes at 4:30pm. So this one shop was perfect..... WAS is the key word. 

So as I was typing this I thought to go check the pressure, turns out I'm I'm now down to like sub 200psi left. So I dropped my flow rate down to like 30cc/min in hopes to extend my CO2 through the weekend. However I doubt that will happen now. I'm going to cut my lighting if it runs out, guess a blackout period won't hurt anything LOL

Last I finally got my needed parts to get my RO/softener setup. Just waiting on the softener company to finalize the pricing for me, which a friend is getting one too so that's played into the delay of it all.


----------



## RollaPrime

chayos00 said:


> Yeah no problem, so on my first post I keep a stock list and go back and update it every so often. The quote from that post below is accurate.


My bad.

I've been reading through the thread but didn't get the fish numbers which is what I really meant to ask. I read up to the point where the Kerri (stunning by the way) tetra were added but couldn't work out how many there were. Same with the other fish.


----------



## chayos00

RollaPrime said:


> My bad.
> 
> I've been reading through the thread but didn't get the fish numbers which is what I really meant to ask. I read up to the point where the Kerri (stunning by the way) tetra were added but couldn't work out how many there were. Same with the other fish.





chayos00 said:


> Fish List:
> 30ish - Royal Tetra or Kerri Tetra (Inpaichthys kerri)
> 4-6 - Pristella Tetras (Pristella maxillaris)
> 11 - Serpae Tetra (Hyphessobrycon eques)
> 12 - Black Neon Tetra - (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi)
> 6 - Glass Bloodfin Tetra - (Prionobrama filigera)
> 9 - Rummynose Tetra - (Hemigrammus bleheri)
> 9 - Glowlight Tetra - (Hemigrammus erythrozonus)
> ? sub 3 - Panda Cory - (Corydoras panda)
> ? sub 3 - Julii Cory - (Corydoras julii)
> ? sub 3 - Oto - (Otocinclus vittatus)
> 3 - Clown Pleco - (Panaque maccus)
> 3 - Pea Puffers - (Carinotetraodon travancoricus)
> 3 or 4 - Zebra Loach - (Botia striata)
> 1 or 2 Dozen - Amano Shrimp - (Cardina multidentata)


Sorry about that, I tried to count what I could as they move around. Didn't bother with the Kerri's as I recall after getting rid of 20 of them I was around 30 last time.


----------



## RollaPrime

chayos00 said:


> Sorry about that, I tried to count what I could as they move around. Didn't bother with the Kerri's as I recall after getting rid of 20 of them I was around 30 last time.


I really like the large school. Perhaps it's just my interpretation of the picture but they seem to be dominating the scape in a really impressive way which is why I quoted the pics. Thanks for the info.


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## chayos00

RollaPrime said:


> I really like the large school. Perhaps it's just my interpretation of the picture but they seem to be dominating the scape in a really impressive way which is why I quoted the pics. Thanks for the info.


I do like how they school together for sure! They are for sure the dominate fish in the tank, wasn't my initial attempt/goal, but as the breed for me so well it was a no brainier for me at the time. However as I'm prepping my 20g tanks out in the garage for breeding, I'm hoping to shoot for 50-100+ cardinals in this tank. So we'll see how all this attempted breeding goes. What's funny is I had the 5x5x5 poret sponge filters in my display tank for about a month and I put 1ml of ammonia in the 20g's and figured that it would be gone the following day, but looks like that didn't happen as they don't seem to have a strong beneficial bacterial presence. The ammonia test 24hrs later showed probably about a 1-2ppm level still in them. As soon as it's down to 0ppm I'm going to move the fish over and start dropping the pH levels to get them breeding for me.


----------



## chayos00

riggles17 said:


> I bothered you previously about your light build, now I'm going to bug you about something else (this time I'm actually going to build it I swear lol).
> 
> I'd like to build an overflow like you have there. I have a DCP-15000 return I'm going to run around 50% and I'll have 3-4 ft of head pressure on it. I'm guessing I'll be coming in right around 1000-1250 gph which is good for my tank which is the same size as yours. How do you find the 1.5" bulkhead being reduced down to 1" tubing for the siphon to work? Quiet enough for your liking?
> 
> *So for a 1" line I max out around my 3-4 speed, which is between 911gph - 1038gph. So if you are possibly going more than that, I might up your tubing size. I honestly questioned about changing mine out to 1.5, however it may be smarter going to 1.25 for me since it might handle 100% flow, however it may be smarter to just go 1.5" overall and be done with it. That I do know can handle the 1387gph I max out at, as I have plugged my overflows to test things out, but if I recall correctly, some air still does go down that tube with my max flow. With my style of overflow and plumbing the only noise I do get is the occasional sound either from the overflow or the sump with how I have designed my setup. Nothing as far as I can tell with the plumbing. But I would say it's pretty quiet. I now get more noise from the CO2 being injected to the reactor.*


So I was thinking about this response tonight when I was cleaning out my sump tonight during my weekly water change. I closed the 1" line with my valve and let all the water go through my 1.5" lines and took a video of that. 1.5" can probably handle a LOT more than I was thinking. If I was to go bigger on my plumbing 1.25" would be where I would probably max it out at, as the 1" is a touch small if I want to run 100% flow from my sump pump, which could always be fined tuned to make it just right with a Spears gate valve that I got from BRS. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pumps-plumbing/plumbing/valves.html

I took two video's to try and show you what I'm seeing. First is the 1" line fully closed off and ALL the flow going through the 1.5" lines. I'd say there's about 60-80% of the line being used up at full flow. 

*1385gph on 1.5" plumbing*

This second video is where I have the 1" line gate valve wide open to allow max flow through it. There's some water going through the secondary, probably taking about 25% of the tubing for flow. 

*1385gph through 1" main + 1.5" secondary*


----------



## chayos00

So during my weekly water change I flushed out all my poret foam of mulm and even tried to flush out the biomedia I have in there too. I finally found an efficient method of cleaning the poret. Take it out of course, then take it out to my driveway. I then hose down the area on the driveway to make sure it's clean and residue free. Then after spraying the outsides of the foam of gunk I then lay it down and start stomping/jumping on it keeping my feet together to try and squeeze out all the gunk (think of squishing grapes in a barrel) . Basically the higher the PPI the more gunk I was able to get out. So the 40ppi stuff holds a bunch, even though I've been rinsing it once a week. The 30ppi had a ton as well, 20ppi not as much, and the 10 didn't seem to have much. Kinda makes me wonder if I should ditch the 10ppi and go with more 30ppi foam. However my pocket book says no... LOL 

While I was checking things out and testing the prime on the Jebao dosing pump, I found the Macro's not really doing anything. I noticed that there was a buildup in the lines after the pump. Took some work, but I got it clear and flowing again. I'm going to need to switch the dosing pump lines back to the larger tubing again. I then noticed that the reservoir actually had a crystal field growing in it. LOL So turns out my gut feeling was right and 50 days of ferts is WAY TOO much for the 1.5L of water to dissolve properly. I'll end up going back down to the 30 day mixes for the macro's at least. The micro mix has no "sediment" of ferts that came out of the mix and is nice and clear except the tint of color to the liquid. 

I ended up doing a very large water change, as I drained out 70 gallons from the display tank and then drained the entire sump of water and vacuumed out any gunk in the tank, which one of the purigen containers let some of the beads out, hopefully I figured out which one that was during the week as I took out what I thought was one that getting a lesser amount of beads in it, think it was to the point of breaking down. If I knew which one or two was the two 500ml's bags I got a few months back, I would chuck everything but those. 

So hopefully with the large DT tank drain and spraying everything exposed with H202 and glut mixed, I can nuke what BBA was under the water line and kill it all. Hopefully finding that my macro's weren't dosing and only the micro's. I'm really hoping that will allow the tank to get the BBA under control and kill it all off.


----------



## chayos00

Forgot to post the reservoir pictures.
















Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## riggles17

chayos00 said:


> Hello! No worries about being a bother, this is what this forum is all about! Helping one another!  I'll put my responses in your quote above.





chayos00 said:


> So I was thinking about this response tonight when I was cleaning out my sump tonight during my weekly water change. I closed the 1" line with my valve and let all the water go through my 1.5" lines and took a video of that. 1.5" can probably handle a LOT more than I was thinking. If I was to go bigger on my plumbing 1.25" would be where I would probably max it out at, as the 1" is a touch small if I want to run 100% flow from my sump pump, which could always be fined tuned to make it just right with a Spears gate valve that I got from BRS. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pumps-plumbing/plumbing/valves.html
> 
> I took two video's to try and show you what I'm seeing. First is the 1" line fully closed off and ALL the flow going through the 1.5" lines. I'd say there's about 60-80% of the line being used up at full flow.
> 
> *1385gph on 1.5" plumbing*
> 
> This second video is where I have the 1" line gate valve wide open to allow max flow through it. There's some water going through the secondary, probably taking about 25% of the tubing for flow.
> 
> *1385gph through 1" main + 1.5" secondary*


Thank you for the thorough responses, I guess 1.25" is going to be the way I go with the siphon (glad I have a few 1" gate valves :| ) My pump is bigger than yours, it will have about the same head height, but I don't plan on running it much above 1000 gph. I would rather be safe and know if I do decide to flow more through it I can. 

I found some PVC elbows that may fit directly into my bulkheads. If I do go acrylic, I will be doing it the way you built yours. I won't be using the teeth in my overflow, just a flat overflow box, with either some foam or some gutter guard in it to keep any water puppies from taking a slide. 

When you assembled your boxes, you aseembled them sides around the bottom panel of the external box, and then added the acrylic braces?

You mentioned using a router - I've been considering setting up a jig to use with a flush trim bit for building the sump, and if I do build the acrylic overflow box, I will use it for that as well. Why didn't you use a router?

I noticed you went with flex tube to your sump, rather than PVC all the way down, what made you go with the flex hose instead?

Thanks again for the responses, and for the videos, I really appreciate it.


----------



## chayos00

riggles17 said:


> Thank you for the thorough responses, I guess 1.25" is going to be the way I go with the siphon (glad I have a few 1" gate valves :| ) My pump is bigger than yours, it will have about the same head height, but I don't plan on running it much above 1000 gph. I would rather be safe and know if I do decide to flow more through it I can.
> 
> I found some PVC elbows that may fit directly into my bulkheads. If I do go acrylic, I will be doing it the way you built yours. I won't be using the teeth in my overflow, just a flat overflow box, with either some foam or some gutter guard in it to keep any water puppies from taking a slide.
> 
> When you assembled your boxes, you aseembled them sides around the bottom panel of the external box, and then added the acrylic braces?
> 
> You mentioned using a router - I've been considering setting up a jig to use with a flush trim bit for building the sump, and if I do build the acrylic overflow box, I will use it for that as well. Why didn't you use a router?
> 
> I noticed you went with flex tube to your sump, rather than PVC all the way down, what made you go with the flex hose instead?
> 
> Thanks again for the responses, and for the videos, I really appreciate it.


For the overflow, the part internal to the tank, I cut and used heat to bend the sides for the two corners to have a cleaner look in the tank. I set the sides on to of the bottom piece and used a router to make the edges match after I glued them all in place. For the external box, looks like the rear part is the piece I also bent to form a solid corner without the use of glue. Then of course sat it again on top of the bottom piece of acrylic gluing it all together and then routing the extra off for a flush fit. 

I don't recall what I saw where I mentioned "I wanted to try a router, but the setup I was working with wasn't keeping it stable enough to get straight cuts, however I have since seen a method that would have probably worked if I ever do it again." But my buddies table saw worked great for getting the cuts I needed and for making the teeth of the overflow box. However if you can figure out a jig to make good cuts without the router moving around on you, as I only have a router and no router table, I didn't have a good way to get straight cuts. 

I think I just went with flex hose for ease of just putting it where I want it without having to hard plumb things. You could honestly do it either way, more of preference, plus I figured smoother flow for a higher GPH. 

Glad to helpout!


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## chayos00

Swapped out my two 20lbs CO2 tanks on Monday, 10/08/2018. The guy was like "you brought the tanks here in that?!" (Drive a 2008 Toyota 4Runner) Turns out there's some regulations about transporting these tanks, which it appears the max size tank in a passenger vehicle is to be 15lbs. I was going to transport 40lbs overall. He said that there was a safety person onsite so he went to ask about it and got permission to "allow" me to take the tanks I had just paid for. Ugh.... Told the wife I need a tiny trailer to pull behind my truck, got shut down on that idea really quick LOL

Funny thing is on Monday I also got to see what it looks like when you over gas CO2 and your fish start gasping at the surface! *DON'T GAS YOUR FISH*. I had under 200psi in the tank on Monday and as I was going to swap the tank, I cranked my CO2 back up. However I turned the valve wide open after my siesta which is just about 3pm and the same time I needed to leave to go get the tanks swapped before they closed. I was shocked at how fast that gassing happened. I think it was like 5 minutes after cranking my reactor pump to 100% and the gas flow up to 100+cc/min. So I cranked my sump pump up to 100%, which starts to churn down the overflow so I figured that would help gas off the CO2 as well as turning on my wavemakers and pointing them at the water surface. All was good in the end and no fish were harmed long term. Whoops.... 

Yesterday and today, I moved some fish out to the garage tanks to breed. I moved over 3 or 4 pea puffers, just one male others are females into one tank. I moved out all my CPD's into another tank. Then today I did about 6 Cardinal tetras. After a few day's I'll figure out which ones need peat moss for a lower pH and see where things go. Fingers crossed!


----------



## ahud

4th gen 4runner! Best vehicle in existence.


----------



## chayos00

ahud said:


> 4th gen 4runner! Best vehicle in existence.


Heck yes! I love my T4R! Got it lifted too with a full coilovers setup of Radflo's. Running 285/70R17 Cooper STT Pro's. Going to be fixing my CV boots this weekend too. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## ahud

chayos00 said:


> Heck yes! I love my T4R! Got it lifted too with a full coilovers setup of Radflo's. Running 285/70R17 Cooper STT Pro's. Going to be fixing my CV boots this weekend too.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Nice! Sounds like a very capable setup. I bet you have awesome wheeling areas in your area.

I drive a 05 v8. I'm planning on a lift and tires...as....soon...as...I get ANOTHER 4th gen to be my road-duty vehicle haha. We drive it so much I did not want to take the gas hit. 

Anyway, just wanted to show some T4R love! I'll never drive anything else if I can help it!


----------



## chayos00

ahud said:


> Nice! Sounds like a very capable setup. I bet you have awesome wheeling areas in your area.
> 
> I drive a 05 v8. I'm planning on a lift and tires...as....soon...as...I get ANOTHER 4th gen to be my road-duty vehicle haha. We drive it so much I did not want to take the gas hit.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to show some T4R love! I'll never drive anything else if I can help it!


HAHA I do miss my stock MPG's, averaging about 15ish with the MT's and lift I have. Was around 17ish with AT's and about 20-21 factory. It's my first Yota and there will be more to come in the future too!


----------



## The Dude1

chayos00 said:


> Swapped out my two 20lbs CO2 tanks on Monday, 10/08/2018. The guy was like "you brought the tanks here in that?!" (Drive a 2008 Toyota 4Runner) Turns out there's some regulations about transporting these tanks, which it appears the max size tank in a passenger vehicle is to be 15lbs. I was going to transport 40lbs overall. He said that there was a safety person onsite so he went to ask about it and got permission to "allow" me to take the tanks I had just paid for. Ugh.... Told the wife I need a tiny trailer to pull behind my truck, got shut down on that idea really quick LOL
> 
> Funny thing is on Monday I also got to see what it looks like when you over gas CO2 and your fish start gasping at the surface! *DON'T GAS YOUR FISH*. I had under 200psi in the tank on Monday and as I was going to swap the tank, I cranked my CO2 back up. However I turned the valve wide open after my siesta which is just about 3pm and the same time I needed to leave to go get the tanks swapped before they closed. I was shocked at how fast that gassing happened. I think it was like 5 minutes after cranking my reactor pump to 100% and the gas flow up to 100+cc/min. So I cranked my sump pump up to 100%, which starts to churn down the overflow so I figured that would help gas off the CO2 as well as turning on my wavemakers and pointing them at the water surface. All was good in the end and no fish were harmed long term. Whoops....
> 
> Yesterday and today, I moved some fish out to the garage tanks to breed. I moved over 3 or 4 pea puffers, just one male others are females into one tank. I moved out all my CPD's into another tank. Then today I did about 6 Cardinal tetras. After a few day's I'll figure out which ones need peat moss for a lower pH and see where things go. Fingers crossed!


Lol!! I tote my 2 20lb tanks in my 3200lb Z06! I sit there and BS with them for half an hour when I get them filled. The owner, his daughter, and her husband all drive new AMG Mercedes and I'm hoping to find one shortly. 
I've never heard of anything like that. They dont happen to sell C02-specific trailers do they?? Lol


----------



## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Lol!! I tote my 2 20lb tanks in my 3200lb Z06! I sit there and BS with them for half an hour when I get them filled. The owner, his daughter, and her husband all drive new AMG Mercedes and I'm hoping to find one shortly.
> I've never heard of anything like that. They dont happen to sell C02-specific trailers do they?? Lol


Nice, I'd love to play around with a ZO6! Sounds like you've got a local shop that will do yours. This place is a chain store so they've probably got lots of rules in place by corporate. I would imagine any sort of small trailer that has side rails to strap the tanks to would be okay. I tried to google for rules about it but couldn't find anything specific of don't transport it in an enclosed vehicle or such a thing. I mentioned best in some sort of gas separated compartment if in an enclosed vehicle. Bet if I would have gotten those 50lb tanks like I had first thought about probably would of caused them to flip their lids seeing me putting one in the back of a 4Runner. LOL


----------



## chayos00

Forgot to mention that I just got my water softener delivered today, so soon I'll get that plumbed in along with my filters to get my RO setup done in the garage so I can get my water change system in place and in use.


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## chayos00

Been working on getting my softener setup which includes my soon to be RO system for water changes. I started the install on Sunday, but had plans to actually start last Saturday, that was till my wife got home from work and was like "uhhhh... Is there supposed to be water pouring out of the water heater?!" So needless to say Saturday was first spent trying to figure out if I could install a tankless water heater, or to just swap out the 6-7 year old tank heater. I ended up just swapping the tank for a new one from Home Depot. 

Making the bypass for the new system, I didn't clean one of the joints well enough for the solder to flow, but got that fixed Monday morning after ANOTHER trip to Home Depot. 

Took a bit to figure out the flow of things as I was piecing it all together, but once I did I got most of it mounted and done. 

Going to paint the plywood today as there's foot prints and pencil marks all over it during the design phase.






























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## chayos00

Looks better painted. Got a fan blowing on it so I can get another coat on to make it nice and even. Then after the second coat I'll put it all back together.









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## forrestcook

Imagine all the work you’re going to have to do/undo if you ever move! I still haven’t taken the jump of getting an RO system, eventually I have to. 


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## forrestcook

Also - if you need blue shrimp I still have looooads. 


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Imagine all the work you’re going to have to do/undo if you ever move! I still haven’t taken the jump of getting an RO system, eventually I have to.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Hahahaha I thought of that aspect. It's why I soldered in the bypass valves and threw in some unions to allow me to disconnect things. However I wouldn't do this if I didn't own the house to. Each canister has a screwed in fitting too, so things can be broken down into smaller pieces. 

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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> Also - if you need blue shrimp I still have looooads.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I keep thinking about the idea of some, but I had gotten a few and for some reason they just aren't liking my water, even when I try to match what they cam in. 

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## chayos00

Alrighty, got the filter panel up and running with no leaks. It sure is a PITA trying to get things done when you've also got two littles to watch while the wifey is working. Hahahaha 

Got the softener flushed and have it currently in a regeneration cycle. Tomorrow I'll make some water for my weekly water change that got skipped on Friday. It will be interesting to see if there is a change in TDS or what. 

I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do for a pump in the garage for the water change system. Checking a few calculators I'm looking at about 17-26' of head height for my attic run over to my second garage. Not many pumps can do that kind of height. Keeping things in the $250-300 range are the PanWorld 150 and/or 200. That seems to be the best priced pump for a head height that I'm looking at. Sucks that's what I'm going to need going through the attic. I debated about just running a hose from garage to garage, but I've got a bunch of PEX tubing left that should be able to make that distance in the attic.









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## Maryland Guppy

If you have an air compressor? A small diaphragm pump is cheap.


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## Greggz

That's some dedication!

I love projects like that. 

Very nicely done.


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## chayos00

Maryland Guppy said:


> If you have an air compressor? A small diaphragm pump is cheap.


I do have two different compressors, a small 2 gallon one and a 20g one. But not really sure what I'm to do with an air pump for what I'm currently trying to accomplish. 

Granted I wondered how I should try to "stir/mix" the water in the tank after I make the RO and remineralize it. I had wondered about using an air pump for that. 

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## Immortal1

chayos00 said:


> I do have two different compressors, a small 2 gallon one and a 20g one. But not really sure what I'm to do with an air pump for what I'm currently trying to accomplish.
> 
> Granted I wondered how I should try to "stir/mix" the water in the tank after I make the RO and remineralize it. I had wondered about using an air pump for that.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Think of it this way, a diaphragm pump is basically a replacement for your electric transfer pump. The difference is the diaphragm pump has a HUGE advantage in head pressure. 

As long as you air compressor has enough capacity to run the diaphragm pump, you should have no trouble pumping water from one location to the other.


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## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> Think of it this way, a diaphragm pump is basically a replacement for your electric transfer pump. The difference is the diaphragm pump has a HUGE advantage in head pressure.
> 
> As long as you air compressor has enough capacity to run the diaphragm pump, you should have no trouble pumping water from one location to the other.


Okay, I'm following now. I've only heard of diaphragm pumps in terms of an air pump for aquariums. So I did a quick googling to see if I could find air driven liquid diaphragm pumps and the best I came up with were $1k+ pumps, that yes had head heights in the range of like 100 feet or so. Do you (@Immortal1) or @Maryland Guppy have any suggestions as far as a pump?



Greggz said:


> That's some dedication!
> 
> I love projects like that.
> 
> Very nicely done.


Thanks Greggz! It all started from your RO board! LOL Granted, I'm probably going to add to mine some more, like a temp controller and a few heaters. I was also thinking if I got the PanFlow pump, I'll put a return line into the storage tank and use that for circulation for mixing the water. Might still look into an air driven pump too, or both.... HAHAHA Maybe the PanWorld pump for the initial mixing, and then the air pump for the circulation in the tank while storing water. IDK.... still things to think about. The always evolving project!


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## Immortal1

I guess this is kinda what I was thinking about. Guess what I didn't realize is how much CFM it requires to run at full speed. On the other hand, 12 gallons per minute is likely more transfer than you need. But, that is probably at 0' of head height. Need to do a little more looking 
double diaphragm water pump

At 4 cfm air consumption this is probably a better option. 5.3 GPH seems more usable. 
double diaphragm water pump

Assuming you know how the pump works but figured this would give you a better idea if you didn't. The thought that occurs to me is with 125psi air pressure pushing on the inside of the diaphragm, wouldn't you in theory have something close to that on the water side? I know these pumps will lift water pretty high - would think 26' head height would not be a problem.


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## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> I guess this is kinda what I was thinking about. Guess what I didn't realize is how much CFM it requires to run at full speed. On the other hand, 12 gallons per minute is likely more transfer than you need. But, that is probably at 0' of head height. Need to do a little more looking
> double diaphragm water pump
> 
> At 4 cfm air consumption this is probably a better option. 5.3 GPH seems more usable.
> double diaphragm water pump
> 
> Assuming you know how the pump works but figured this would give you a better idea if you didn't. The thought that occurs to me is with 125psi air pressure pushing on the inside of the diaphragm, wouldn't you in theory have something close to that on the water side? I know these pumps will lift water pretty high - would think 26' head height would not be a problem.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCo9My_dz_U


Thanks for sharing that info, based on the pricing and the flow rates of these All Flo pumps, as that's what I came across when I first searched for diaphragm pumps. I might just be better off getting the PanWorld 200PS pump for $300. It looks to be able to do about 21GPM at 20' head height, which would flow more than do what I'm needing. @32' head it should be able to do 6.6 GPM still. At least with this pump, I would just need the pump and no other hardware like the compressor that's also in the other garage. Granted I have wanted to run an air line from the compressor to the main garage for the longest time, don't think it's worth the cost at this time. I like the outside the box thinking though!


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## chayos00

Was going to place the order for the pump yesterday, but as I'm going camping this weekend the item would either get here Friday, when we are up in the mountains or Tuesday through the slow method. However as I don't want to go the cheapest method of shipping for the long ship time. I'd rather pay a touch more to have something in shipping a shorter time. I'll check to see what it tells me for ship times on Wednesday evening and see what it says. 

I'm also going to order a new RO membrane from SpectraPure to get their 90GPD 99% rejection membrane. I'll also add their 0.2 micron filter for the sediment prefilter prior to the carbon blocks.


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## chayos00

Took some updated photos for our local club home show meeting, which I'll be out camping this weekend, so I can't attend. However I also wanted to share an update here too. 

FTS - 616 Day's


Left Side


Right Side


Damned this mermaid weed is growing dang slow! But at least it's coming back!


Best I've ever had Stryagen Repens grow for me. Granted this is the only time I've given it CO2 to as well. @Greggz if you still want it to work for you, do as I did and get some tissue culture of this from PetSmart. 


I love the look of this Blyxa Japonica! Makes for a nice long grass look! Kind of a grass field around a tree stump, look at the FTS on the left side.


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## chayos00

Glad I waited to see if BulkReefSupply would have the needed PanWorld 200PS pump on sale for black friday. Which they just went with a site wide 15% off, so I placed my order for the pump and paid $250 vs the $295 original price! HEHEHE Shipping estimate shows delivery on the actual Black Friday! 

However first before anything else is worked on, I need to get my hot tub back up and running after being shut down this year due to a leaking pump, which was fixed but never put water in the tub as the cover was leaking during monsoon season, so now that it's not raining here in Arizona, time to get that fixed this weekend.


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## chayos00

Thought I updated this post the other day, maybe I forgot to hit submit before closing out the browser LOL. 

On Friday/Saturday, I mixed up some new Ferts, micros and macros. I used a combo of @Greggz and @Burrr740 for the micros and went middle of the road on their latest mixes I could find. I need to just start tweaking it on my own at this point. LOL Either way, went back to a 30 day ratio for the fert reservoir vs that 50 day mix that came out of solution. 

I also redid the tubing used on my auto doser, as they got clogged from the macros that came out of solution. Which I also went back to the larger ID tubing as my calibration of the dispenses was off. Now I can actually calibrate it properly, just hope those air in the lines stays away. But I guess if they do come back a 50mL dose should be pretty close for it to flush the lines on a dispense.


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## Mike A.

chayos00 said:


> Best I've ever had Stryagen Repens grow for me. Granted this is the only time I've given it CO2 to as well. @Greggz if you still want it to work for you, do as I did and get some tissue culture of this from PetSmart.



Agree. Whatever variety/line they have really does grow well. Even in my low tech tanks. I've used a lot of it and that's the best that I've come across.


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## Ken Keating1

chayos00 said:


> On Friday/Saturday, I mixed up some new Ferts, micros and macros. I used a combo of @Greggz and @Burrr740 for the micros and went middle of the road on their latest mixes I could find.


Did you take into consideration Greggz's 70% weekly water change schedule? If you're doing 50% WC, his dosing X 0.70 would be equivalent to the same dosing amounts with 50% WC.


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## forrestcook

50-75% water change is just sooo much work! I get that it works and it’s necessary for some dosing schemes but my 25-30% is about at the top end of my willingness to maintain. Good on you guys who aren’t as lazy as me!


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## Greggz

forrestcook said:


> 50-75% water change is just sooo much work! I get that it works and it’s necessary for some dosing schemes but my 25-30% is about at the top end of my willingness to maintain. Good on you guys who aren’t as lazy as me!


If you take some time to make the process as automated as possible, it's not that much of a chore.

I went overboard. Pex pipe in the wall, down to the RO storage tanks and a drain. Two switches, one to drain, one to fill. Actual amount doesn't create any more work.

So whether it's the right length hoses, or a pump in the tank to drain, or just a python, the easier you make the process, the more likely you are to keep up with it.


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## chayos00

Ken Keating1 said:


> Did you take into consideration Greggz's 70% weekly water change schedule? If you're doing 50% WC, his dosing X 0.70 would be equivalent to the same dosing amounts with 50% WC.





forrestcook said:


> 50-75% water change is just sooo much work! I get that it works and it’s necessary for some dosing schemes but my 25-30% is about at the top end of my willingness to maintain. Good on you guys who aren’t as lazy as me!


Yeah, I do about a 50% water change each week. I'm still getting my plumbing setup for my semi automated water change system. I haven't found any issues with buildup on ferts, those that I can measure, over time. 

But yeah using RO water in 5g buckets makes for a PITA of a water change. I was even saying this is a PITA carrying buckets from the garage to the tank to my wife Friday night as I was doing my water change. I just need to get the plumbing done on mine and then I can have an easy water change! 

On another matter, I ordered two different CO2 regulators from ebay (hoping one is at least a good one) to replace the funky Aquatek regulator that I have. It seems to click as the pressure bleeds off and then it clicks when it bumps the pressure back to the set pressure. Ordered a VWR one and a stainless/chrome looking AirGas regulator. Before going further getting parts, I'm going to see if I can cannibalize the solenoid and needle valve from the Aquatek. Otherwise, I may check out a package deal from https://www.diyco2regulator.com. 

I noticed that since I updated my ferts that my tank doesn't get that yellowish tinge from the Micros now. I should of dumped that 50 day mix a long while ago! LOL


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## chayos00

Got a second delivery today! My fish tank presents to myself! LOL The VWR regulator looks dang near brand new! Also these are huge compared to the Aquatek regulator and there's no way the solenoid will work on these, so I'll probably be going with the DIYCO2 combo pack. 

If I got a manifold with two needle valves, do you fellow fish people think 40psi would be too much for some sort of low flow CO2 in a 10g?

Thanks for the help in finding these @AguaScape! 


















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## Immortal1

Nice looking regulators! 
FWIW, I currently have a regulator similar to the Airgass one above. I have 2 solenoid valves and 2 needle valves connected to the output. Pressure is rock steady at 20 psi going into 2 separate Cerges reactors (2 tanks).


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## AguaScape

chayos00 said:


> Thanks for the help in finding these @AguaScape!


Both of those are sexy as hell. Got to admit that I am a bit jealous of the Airgas. It is sleeker than any of mine. I am happy that you got it though. I don't think the seller knew what he had at that price.


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## AguaScape

chayos00 said:


>


I knew you were a DIY guy from the conversations we have had, but this is impressive! Wow!


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## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> Nice looking regulators!
> FWIW, I currently have a regulator similar to the Airgass one above. I have 2 solenoid valves and 2 needle valves connected to the output. Pressure is rock steady at 20 psi going into 2 separate Cerges reactors (2 tanks).


I was at Home Depot yesterday and I saw some brass fittings and some pipe extensions and wondered if I should use the CGA-320 fitting into a T and then into an extension into each regulator, then I could run both at a pressure each need. However then I would need to get two sets of regulators and the post body kits. 



AguaScape said:


> Both of those are sexy as hell. Got to admit that I am a bit jealous of the Airgas. It is sleeker than any of mine. I am happy that you got it though. I don't think the seller knew what he had at that price.


I'm going to try cleaning the nickel plating to see if I can make it shine. The only thing that bugs me about it is the AirGas logo on the knob is kind of worn out/old looking. But, hey as long as it works like a champ, it's not like I look at it every day LOL



AguaScape said:


> I knew you were a DIY guy from the conversations we have had, but this is impressive! Wow!


Thanks, go to the first page in the post and check out the stand/canopy build that I took FOREVER to build (3 years, life and procrastination got in the way). I tend to overthink things and make whatever they do overcomplicated! Thus my filter panel..... HAHAHA 

It's funny seeing how everything on the Aquatek regulator has 1/8" fittings and these other regulators are all 1/4", but then needle valves and the likes of that have to be adapted back to 1/8" from what I can see.


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## chayos00

So I took some chrome cleaner to the nickel plating to try and polish it up a bit and also cleaned what I could. The plastic lens for the gauges screw off and I was able to wash them and took some Meguires PlasticX polish to them to remove some of the scratches. Also turns out that Air Gas logo insert on the knob comes out (fell out while cleaning) and was able to clean it. 









Also had a floater of Bylxa for several days now. Noticed while it was floating at the top the plant got a good blast of red in the leaf's! I would imagine a PAR of 100ish would turn them a bright red at the substrate.










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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> So I took some chrome cleaner to the nickel plating to try and polish it up a bit and also cleaned what I could. The plastic lens for the gauges screw off and I was able to wash them and took some Meguires PlasticX polish to them to remove some of the scratches.


Chrome cleaner and Meguire's.

Common vernacular from another hobby of mine.

I think @Immortal1 knows what I am talking about.


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## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Chrome cleaner and Meguire's.
> 
> Common vernacular from another hobby of mine.
> 
> I think @*Immortal1* knows what I am talking about.



OMG, used to buy that stuff by the case, LOL. @chayos00 - regulator is looking great! Probably pretty close to new. Will make a nice setup with a post body


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Chrome cleaner and Meguire's.
> 
> Common vernacular from another hobby of mine.
> 
> I think @Immortal1 knows what I am talking about.


Hahahaha I would guess something I do too! Does it involve a dual action Porter Cable? Hahahaha My wife used to have a black car and the micro scratches/having that can happen over time brought me in the DIY car detailing scene. 


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## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> OMG, used to buy that stuff by the case, LOL. @chayos00 - regulator is looking great! Probably pretty close to new. Will make a nice setup with a post body


Hahaha never near those qualities! Honestly a bottle dries us is usually the reason I go and buy more. 

Thanks! I plan on finding some new lower range gauges, like a 125 -150 for low pressure and say a 1200-1500 for the high pressure so I can actually see the bottle start to drop form the 800ish in the tank. Plus I really do like the 2.5" sized gauge's for seeing the actual pressure easier. As well as that brass CGA fitting sure won't look right on this regulator. So gonna need to find nickel, chrome, or SS fittings/hardware for the Airgas reg, otherwise it may look kinda funny. 

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## Immortal1

All stainless builds sure do look nice! Mine is a nickle regulator with brass post body & CGA


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## The Dude1

Man you are putting together quite the system! Plants are looking amazing! How are you not getting BBA on the wood that's higher up in the tank?


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Hahahaha I would guess something I do too! Does it involve a dual action Porter Cable? Hahahaha My wife used to have a black car and the micro scratches/having that can happen over time brought me in the DIY car detailing scene.


If you have heard the term “Concours Condition”, then you suffer from the same affliction.


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## chayos00

The Dude1 said:


> Man you are putting together quite the system! Plants are looking amazing! How are you not getting BBA on the wood that's higher up in the tank?


Thanks I've been wondering where you've been! 

I've done lots of trimming on plants lately due to my ferts not getting dosed properly on my last mix of ferts clogging my auto doser. But they Shire have grown quite a bit for sure! 

My trick for the BBA is I've been doing my water changes out of the display tank vs the sump and taking out 70g from the DT and it's like 3/4 to 7/8 of the water volume out of the tank. So I then spray my water bottle with a mix of glut and H2O2 and that's kept my BBA to only the far lower portion of the tank. It's a fickle pickle, but probably won't be gone till I can get a UV based on how yours responded to one. I got tired of spot dosing to get rid of BBA. 

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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Thanks I've been wondering where you've been!
> 
> I've done lots of trimming on plants lately due to my ferts not getting dosed properly on my last mix of ferts clogging my auto doser. But they Shire have grown quite a bit for sure!
> 
> My trick for the BBA is I've been doing my water changes out of the display tank vs the sump and taking out 70g from the DT and it's like 3/4 to 7/8 of the water volume out of the tank. So I then spray my water bottle with a mix of glut and H2O2 and that's kept my BBA to only the far lower portion of the tank. It's a fickle pickle, but probably won't be gone till I can get a UV based on how yours responded to one. I got tired of spot dosing to get rid of BBA.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Hey the Dude1 is back in town!

And great post on BBA. Water changes are defense #1.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> If you have heard the term “Concours Condition”, then you suffer from the same affliction.


Hahaha I had to Google that, so guess not to that extent! Probably since I 4x4 my 4Runner and get Arizona pinstripes on it, it will never be better than factory! Last time I did a big detail on my truck it did take about 3 full days of work to take the paint from crap back to about a 90% correction. 

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## Vadim Shevchuk

Wow, just read the whole 52 page thread! Hats off to you, on staying persistent with all the fish die offs and problems along the way! I have a 150 gallon 4' and I also battled BBA on my Manzanita DW. I got rid of the giant stump and I never had BBA again in my tank!


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## chayos00

Vadim Shevchuk said:


> Wow, just read the whole 52 page thread! Hats off to you, on staying persistent with all the fish die offs and problems along the way! I have a 150 gallon 4' and I also battled BBA on my Manzanita DW. I got rid of the giant stump and I never had BBA again in my tank!


Thanks for sticking to it! Lots to go through on this thread for sure! Lots of growing pains! Hahaha 

I had thought to myself about possibly rescaping the tank, but my luck so far with stem plants hasn't been good. However if you found the wood cleared up your BBA, that vertical piece I have on the left side keeps growing this white brown fuzz that doesn't seem affected by the H2O2 and glut mix. However it's also tied together on the piece with all the anubis on it. Might have to try and find a new piece when I go back in the mountains again. 

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## AguaScape

I made it through the whole thread. Great read! Really looking forward to the DIY LED Build thread.


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## chayos00

So I started something today. Kinda scary drilling though a wall!









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## Immortal1

Well, I don't see any electrical burns on the wall... 
Just kidding, always fun trying something new or unknown. If you look at the very beginning of my build thread there was a lot of new & unknown going on there. But, I kept going and I think things turned out pretty good.

Given what you already did in the one garage, I suspect where you are now headed will turn on just fine.


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## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> Well, I don't see any electrical burns on the wall...
> Just kidding, always fun trying something new or unknown. If you look at the very beginning of my build thread there was a lot of new & unknown going on there. But, I kept going and I think things turned out pretty good.
> 
> Given what you already did in the one garage, I suspect where you are now headed will turn on just fine.


Hahaha yeah, no electricity encountered! Or anything else. This is actually in the same garage as I'm running the drain and fill lines through the wall to my tank on the other side of the wall. Finally getting to the plumbing for me much easier water change system. Or the no buckets water change system. The drain line is all glued up to the front of the garage to drain down the driveway. 

Here's a better picture to show where it's all running.









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## chayos00

Been a pain trying to find time to finish the water change system plumbing. However got some good progress last night as well as figuring out how to plumb the part inside the house with just a single line going in the tank and from the sump. I had to redo a part of the sump plumbing from a T to a 4 way to have a line coming from the sump pump to start the tank draining. 

On a side note, for the breeding project I've been trying, I've not been really good with keeping up with those fish out in the garage. So too many skipped days of being fed and they have gotten skinny. I really should get them back in my DT and fattened up again. The two puffers in my display tank are pretty fattened up, so I should probably switch those pairs around and see what they do. But really do need to focus on getting this water change setup going first! LOL

Oh, @Greggz that neck on the inside of the tank with the lip at the bottom of the opening is like 5.5-6" you said your sump pump is how wide?


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Oh, @Greggz that neck on the inside of the tank with the lip at the bottom of the opening is like 5.5-6" you said your sump pump is how wide?


Here's what it says..................."the Superior Pump can fit inside an opening as small as 6 inches". 

Looks like it's not an option.

But I have to say, I love the plumbing project. Right up my alley, and I know what you are going through. Very nice work!


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Here's what it says..................."the Superior Pump can fit inside an opening as small as 6 inches".
> 
> Looks like it's not an option.
> 
> But I have to say, I love the plumbing project. Right up my alley, and I know what you are going through. Very nice work!


My neighbor happen to have the 1/3hp version of that pump that I borrowed to speed up my hot tub draining when I was getting that back up and running last month. I figured this thing works well and I could still get one or two, one for the tub and the other for the storage tank if I needed to flush it for any reason. As it would get more water from the bottom of the tank than the regular drain line. However I may resort back to my first thought of a shop vac and a 1" PVC tubing through the top opening. 

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## chayos00

SHE'S ALIVE! My water change system was just flow tested and worked like a champ and no leaks (take that back, a tiny one on the pump output fitting, nothing some teflon tape won't fit)! I have a quick video below showing it working. After letting it run for a while and then draining the big tank out as I filled it with tap water to make sure there were no leaks and what not, plus to give the system a rinse. Saw a bunch of crap get flushed out of the drain line, so good think I did that vs letting it go into the tank! I then was able to flush the water through all the tubing and out the drain line when it was done. On a rough estimate of the number of gallons on the storage tank, it was able to drain it at about 20 gallons per minute going through the whole plumbing system. I'll probably have to use the ball valve on the pump to slow things down a bit to prevent it blasting into my substrate! LOL But I don't doubt that this thing will now be able to handle getting to my 2nd garage through the attic. 

https://youtu.be/Ag2mqb7cuJk


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## chayos00

I was able to perform my first water change with the new system. No issues to report. Just had to run a long extension cord from the garage to my den to turn the water pump on and off for the refill. However I plan to have a remote control to be able to cycle the power off and on the pump. 

The drain worked pretty well being started by the sump pump and then getting the siphon going out the drain line. With the gravity drain I'd say it did up to about 5-10g a minute. Refill of 100g took 6 minutes. So once I get the hang of it WC should be pretty simple! I'll be able to rinse out my filters while the water drains. 

I'll try to do a video walk through of the whole thing if anyone is interested. 

So next I need another temp controller for heating the stored water, a wireless relay for the fill pump, and plumbing the line through the attic for the 2nd garage. 

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## MCFC

chayos00 said:


> I'll try to do a video walk through of the whole thing if anyone is interested.


Yes please!


----------



## AguaScape

chayos00 said:


> I'll try to do a video walk through of the whole thing if anyone is interested.


I would love to see a video walk through


----------



## chayos00

MCFC said:


> Yes please!





AguaScape said:


> I would love to see a video walk through


Alright, I did one last night during my water change. I rambled on a bit so the video ended up being longer than anticipated. 11 minutes, but I think I covered everything about the setup. I used my phone to record it all as I was able to pause the video recording, however I goofed at one point and had to use a video editor to join the video's together. 

https://youtu.be/2atF7Qhmrmw


----------



## AguaScape

chayos00 said:


> Alright, I did one last night during my water change. I rambled on a bit so the video ended up being longer than anticipated. 11 minutes, but I think I covered everything about the setup. I used my phone to record it all as I was able to pause the video recording, however I goofed at one point and had to use a video editor to join the video's together.


Wow. Thanks for the walk through. Makes my DIY continuous drip water change system with syphon overflow seem amateurish by comparison. If I followed the flow path correctly, it seems that you have 5 micron and 1 micron 20 inch filters before and after the water softener. Does the water softener introduce additional particles into the system that need to be filtered out? Just curious because I may need to do a water softener at some point.


----------



## chayos00

AguaScape said:


> Wow. Thanks for the walk through. Makes my DIY continuous drip water change system with syphon overflow seem amateurish by comparison. If I followed the flow path correctly, it seems that you have 5 micron and 1 micron 20 inch filters before and after the water softener. Does the water softener introduce additional particles into the system that need to be filtered out? Just curious because I may need to do a water softener at some point.


So the house water filters worked out like this. I initially was going to run 3 filters pre softener and they were $75 each for three but then a fourth one brought the price for each one down to like $35 each, so pretty much the price for two was just a touch more than four filters. I figured the pre filters would take the brunt of any sediment in the water and the post softener ones would hardly ever see anything. Granted one day I expect the softener media to breakdown and these filters will catch that breakdown for me to see. Well I've been getting this funk in my spindown filter and then I opened up the softener salt tank and noticed all the salt has the same brown crap all over it. I can only assume the tank was stored open and dirt and dust got in. I'm gonna do another recharge or two till the salt level drops and clean that tank out to remolve any crud in there. Then hope the crud stays away for good. If not the softener folks are gonna be coming out to figure out WTFrick is going on with that softener! LOL l

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## chayos00

I got my delivery today of the remote controlled power outlet and I can confirm it does work! LOL So glad that was an easy addition! It also does seem to work across my house, which has a radiant barrier on the roof which seems to degrade all other wireless signals for me. 

Magnasonic WRC101 Wireless Remote Control Home Automation Power Outlet Outdoor On/Off Switch with 100 Feet Range https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HAVVKG

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## chayos00

I tested out the wireless remote to my now fully set up water change system. I had to try flushing the line that I ran through my attic, so figured it was a good time to take another quick video. I didn't test the flow yet, but I'm going to guess 5-10GPM with the pump wide open, so pretty decent I would say! 

https://youtu.be/bdjv7WQHgBQ


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## forrestcook

In your video I noticed you have insulation panels in your garage door... How much difference does that make here in Arizona? What does your peak temp end up looking like? Do you have tanks in there?

My assumption is that it will be way too hot regardless of insulation, but I could totally fit several 10 gallons out on my shelves out there...


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## chayos00

forrestcook said:


> In your video I noticed you have insulation panels in your garage door... How much difference does that make here in Arizona? What does your peak temp end up looking like? Do you have tanks in there?
> 
> My assumption is that it will be way too hot regardless of insulation, but I could totally fit several 10 gallons out on my shelves out there...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


So I've got 2 garages, one with the cars and the RO water storage then my single stall one with my other tanks. In the summer the one with the cars stays hotter now, like 115° at times but I'm noticing now it's cooler that garage is staying at a better temp now and not so cold. When the house was built I put in fiberglass in the walls so I'm just missing insulation on the garage attic side. However going back to the single stall garage where I do have tanks and it's never opened to the outside, I had the builder insulate it so the walls, attic, and garage door have it. I also cut two large sheets of styrofoam to help stop the summer sun from blasting it's heat through the garage door as it gets hit by sun in the morning. Also as it's on the north side of my house that helps to prevent it getting too hot. 

So after all my rambling, if you park your cars in the garage, summer would be a no go, but our winter times may work. 

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## chayos00

Discovered Christmas morning that my CO2 tank finally went empty, so flowing at 80-100cc/min gets me about 3 months, or 78 days for a tank, from a 20LBS CO2 tank. 

Anyone else noticed that sometimes those screw in CO2 gaskets don't always screw in and have to resort to using the plastic crush disk to seal the regulator to the tank?


----------



## ChrisX

chayos00 said:


> Discovered Christmas morning that my CO2 tank finally went empty, so flowing at 80-100cc/min gets me about 3 months, or 78 days for a tank, from a 20LBS CO2 tank.
> 
> Anyone else noticed that sometimes those screw in CO2 gaskets don't always screw in and have to resort to using the plastic crush disk to seal the regulator to the tank?


Are you sure there isn't a leak? Are you running a sump?

My 24 oz paintball tank lasts 7 weeks on my 75g tank. If I had a 20# tank it would last 23 months, if there wasn't a leak. You are using 8x as much CO2.


----------



## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> Are you sure there isn't a leak? Are you running a sump?
> 
> My 24 oz paintball tank lasts 7 weeks on my 75g tank. If I had a 20# tank it would last 23 months, if there wasn't a leak. You are using 8x as much CO2.


100% sure there is not a leak, I use a water and soap mix to check after each tank change. I do have a sump running on my tank. 

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## chayos00

I think I saw a single corydora cat egg in my tank today. I came across an aquarium co-op video of how to collect the eggs, so if it's still there tomorrow I'm going to move it down into one of my breeder devices down in the sump. 

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## chayos00

No go on that corydora cat egg.... didn't see it the next day. 

So today is water change day and now I'm over here playing with the ZorFox planted tank calculator trying to figure out my dosing method for macros due to now having all the dry ferts for the RO water. Thinking of shooting for a kH of 2.

That and I really want to rearrange a number of plants around in my tank, the amazon swords are getting big and I'm thinking of taking them all and moving them to the far left side and then not sure what to do with all the s.repens that are growing like a beast and the blyxa japonica. 

Anyone ever thought of dosing their RO water storage tank with all the kh/gh and the rest of the macros vs the tank? Not sure how sitting for a 1-3 weeks would do with those fertz.


----------



## AguaScape

chayos00 said:


> No go on that corydora cat egg.... didn't see it the next day.
> 
> So today is water change day and now I'm over here playing with the ZorFox planted tank calculator trying to figure out my dosing method for macros due to now having all the dry ferts for the RO water. Thinking of shooting for a kH of 2.
> 
> That and I really want to rearrange a number of plants around in my tank, the amazon swords are getting big and I'm thinking of taking them all and moving them to the far left side and then not sure what to do with all the s.repens that are growing like a beast and the blyxa japonica.
> 
> Anyone ever thought of dosing their RO water storage tank with all the kh/gh and the rest of the macros vs the tank? Not sure how sitting for a 1-3 weeks would do with those fertz.


I would think that dosing your storage with KH and GH would be fine as I do not think that they are affected much by the macros and micros. I would hesitate to dose macros though as some of the elements will be neutralized as soon as you dose micros and you would need to supplement them anyway. I don't think that the time sitting in the tank is a factor as pre-mixed and custom-mixed solutions can sit for months in a dosing bottle.


----------



## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Anyone ever thought of dosing their RO water storage tank with all the kh/gh and the rest of the macros vs the tank? Not sure how sitting for a 1-3 weeks would do with those fertz.


I dose my RO water storage tanks for KH/GH. No issues there. Let's the CaSO4 dissolve completely, which is a good thing. 

Haven't thought of dosing macros too, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Front loading macros in the tank is pretty much the same thing.


----------



## GoldenFish937

Following. Very Nice


----------



## chayos00

So turns out figuring out the ppm/dkh/dgh is a bit more than I expected, then the CA:MG ratio, which I came across something indicating either 4:1 to 3:1 ratios and @greggs is at like 2.6:1 or so. Trying to keep the dKH around 2 and the dGH lower too. FUN times while also trying to work this out between calls through work. LOL Guess water change time was missed for my mid day siesta. Gonna have to figure this out and then dose the RO and have a late night water change. Luckily that is done in less than 15 minutes! Still trying to get my groove figured out for that LOL

Edit: Wow, post #800!


----------



## chayos00

Alright @Greggz, I need some help here. How did you get your K dosing down?? I did the math on the RO mineralization and have the following.

I added images as attachments of what I'm looking at.


----------



## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Alright @Greggz, I need some help here. How did you get your K dosing down?? I did the math on the RO mineralization and have the following.


Well, you've got two things going on there. 

First is the math in the spreadsheet. I entered your numbers into mine and got the following, which would be correct. Your total weekly ppm of K is not adding properly. Not sure if you changed it? And are you using the latest version (3.0).










And based on your numbers it looks like you are calculating for 1.5 dKH rise in 80 gallons of water? Correct?

If so, your other number are right, but it's only 11.18 grams. You have it listed as 23.8 gram???

Anything I said make any sense? Now I feel confused???:wink2::wink2:


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Well, you've got two things going on there.
> 
> First is the math in the spreadsheet. I entered your numbers into mine and got the following, which would be correct. Your total weekly ppm of K is not adding properly. Not sure if you changed it? And are you using the latest version (3.0).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And based on your numbers it looks like you are calculating for 1.5 dKH rise in 80 gallons of water? Correct?
> 
> If so, your other number are right, but it's only 11.18 grams. You have it listed as 28.3 gram???
> 
> Anything I said make any sense? Now I feel confused???:wink2::wink2:


I'm using the older version of your spreadsheet, didn't confirm math. So yeah I see that K math is off. 

The RO dose currently is for the RO storage tank that has 170g of water sitting in it, so that's why the math there doesn't make sense. If you look at the header for the RO water you'll notice the volume. Once I figure out my change volumes and the size of the storage tank I'll narrow down how much I'll dose that tank, vs based on how much water to change. If that makes sense in words. 

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## chayos00

AguaScape said:


> I would think that dosing your storage with KH and GH would be fine as I do not think that they are affected much by the macros and micros. I would hesitate to dose macros though as some of the elements will be neutralized as soon as you dose micros and you would need to supplement them anyway. I don't think that the time sitting in the tank is a factor as pre-mixed and custom-mixed solutions can sit for months in a dosing bottle.





Greggz said:


> I dose my RO water storage tanks for KH/GH. No issues there. Let's the CaSO4 dissolve completely, which is a good thing.
> 
> Haven't thought of dosing macros too, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Front loading macros in the tank is pretty much the same thing.


I'm wondering more and more about this idea. I might test this out in a few weeks if I do. However I guess on the other side of the coin, if I use this water for other tanks that are just bare bottomed QT/Breeding tanks it may not be a good idea to do anything more than just remineralize the water. 

I'm also still debating about drilling a hole in the tank down around the 100g mark for a float valve for just the display tank water changes. As today is cold out here in Arizona, down in the 20's for the lows and a high of the 40's, I was thinking if I only had to heat a smaller amount of water that would probably reduce the heating needs for the water. I've taken some spare insulation (that tinfoil covered bubble stuff) and wrapped it around the lower half of the tank to try to help it hold in some of the heat.



GoldenFish937 said:


> Following. Very Nice


Thanks! If you haven't started one yet, it's funny following along on someone's tank journal! 

Now that I'm back to my PC today, as I was out and about last night after posting my chemicals/fertilizer question. I'm going to switch my info over to the v3 fert sheet and double check the math to make sure all is correct.


----------



## chayos00

Okay, went over the spreadsheet and updated it to my setup. Plus I went through and checked all formulas to ensure math was being done right. I tried to include all info I had, I will figure out my pH levels after the water change tonight when I'm going to try for a 90% change to reset everything. You may ask why the long ramp time for the lights, it was part of my BBA battle and I haven't adjusted anything back up. However the BBA is still on the rocks at the bottom of the tank, which I am going to nuke tonight. Give it a few weeks to see how things go and then try tweaking the ramp time to more like 2-3hrs total.


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## chayos00

@(#^@#%*@&#(&*@#&(* Damn laptop battery died and Excel didn't autosave my document that I worked on and fixed over the last two days. I'm so pissed right now! Wednesday was my last actual save on it when I did my CO2 tank swap. Thank goodness I did a screenshot of the page above, it was where I spent most of my time.


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## chayos00

Not so flustered now, got everything fixed and even decided to do the math for a front end dosing of macros like some others on here do. Think I might give that a shot and see how my setup does as it's just a few teaspoons of fertz each week. I'm going to weight them out to confirm the math works out from the ZorFox calculator first. 

Total Weekly PPM: NO3 (30) PO4 (6) K (42.28)

Alternate idea of going down on NO3 to also reduce the K, which didn't come out to as low of a K as I was thinking it may. 

Total Weekly PPM: NO3 (20) PO4 (6) K (35.98)

These numbers include my K levels for my GH/KH added to my RO water. 

Currently I'm going to stick with my level for the NO3 @ 30PPM and see how things go there now that I'm getting the dGH/dKH levels stabilized now, mainly I would forget to add about 10g of hard tap water to my water change fill ups. LOL 

So just finished my water change, now about 2hrs after starting to type all this out. Did the front end loading with NO3 and PO4, NO3 came out perfect at the tsp measurement to the weight. However PO4 was high if I went with the tsp measurement, but by a few points or 0.6ppm worth higher. 
@Greggz I see what you mean about making sure that the dKH/dGH mix is dissolved all the way. I dumped the mix in the tank about 5:45pm and then around 10 is when I did the water change. I could see my tank water appeared cloudy and then I looked in the RO tank and sure enough you can see some sort of little balls of stuff floating down there. I dumped my RO mix as I also had the drain line open as I was attempting to fill the tank and lost, gonna guess 20-40g of water that way before realizing what was going on and not enough left for another water change. I've got my RO filters running now and once it gets to about 100g I'll cut it off tomorrow and then dose that then so it has time to dissolve before next Friday's WC.

On another note of a screw up by me. The dry ferts I have most are from GLA and their Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4) never indicated anything besides MgSO4, so I had it figured out to convert it from MgSO4.7H2O to MgSO4. Well I looked on their site yesterday and realized it's actually the MgSO4.7H2O version and I've been cutting my weighted out product for that in half ever since I started using EI dosing.... LOL Whoops!!

Got my degassing water sample sitting out and should find out what my pH levels are going to be. I found the filled tank at 108TDS prior to the front loading and after around 145TDS, so that will be interesting to see if it changes at all now with just the micro's dosing daily. I'm going to leave micro's alone for now, don't want to change a TON of things all at once.

Okay enough rambling, off to bed!


----------



## chayos00

Did a bit of trimming in the tank over a few days and moved a few things around and cut back any and all questionable leafs on everything. Just hoping now that all the "funk" has been removed I get good growth out of things. Hope my fert levels are good now that I've got my RO remineralized. Gonna leave them along for a bit to try and see what new growth looks like. However I did tweak my light a bit, not the levels, just the ramp times. Went from 255 minutes up and down times at each end down to 120 minutes. So from 8.5 hrs of total ramp time to 4hrs now. Giving 5.5hrs of full light vs 1.5hrs previously. 

I also tested out my water before my water change and then after and then before adding the ferts for the week. Did about a 90g water change too. 

Nitrates tested at about 30ppm pre change and then about 5ppm post change, then again 30ppm post ferts dosing. Phosphate tested at 2ppm pre change, 0.2 post change, and then again 2 post dosing what weighted out at 6ppm. Thinking the API test kit isn't quite accurate. 

I got a nutrafin GH/KH testing kit from the local fish club meeting last month and it's an easy enough kit to use like the API. Specs tested out as expected 1-2 on the kH and 3-4 on the gH too. 

PreTrim









Post Trim









Right Side 









Left Side









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## vvDO

chayos00 said:


> PreTrim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post Trim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Is that garland and Xmas lights decorating your tank?

Very nice update, like what you’ve done.

Also is there a big difference in lighting between pre and post trim? Post trim just seems very bright, trying to see if it’s due to less shading or just light intensity.



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## chayos00

vvDO said:


> Is that garland and Xmas lights decorating your tank?
> 
> Very nice update, like what you’ve done.
> 
> Also is there a big difference in lighting between pre and post trim? Post trim just seems very bright, trying to see if it’s due to less shading or just light intensity.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, I had garland with lights in it on my tank for Christmas! LOL I think that pre picture I didn't turn the lights on their full daytime lighting intensity, where as post Trim pics were at full intensity. I'm not the greatest at getting great shots of my tank. These were done with my phone and only cropped. 

Thanks! 

To add to the above, in person it doesn't look washed out like it does to me in the photos. 

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## Beazley

Great tank! 

That stand though. You have some carpentry skills, Sir!


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## chayos00

Beazley said:


> Great tank!
> 
> That stand though. You have some carpentry skills, Sir!


Thank you! Took lots of time and patience! Can you believe I never built anything like this before? Some shelves in my garage, but nothing of this quality! 

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## Beazley

chayos00 said:


> Thank you! Took lots of time and patience! Can you believe I never built anything like this before? Some shelves in my garage, but nothing of this quality!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Although the stand is beautiful, I do believe you when you say you had never built anything like it before. It did take you three years, after all. :surprise::grin2::wink2:

I also know what it is like to be talented at things I've never done before. Take my current downstairs bathroom build, for instance. The project is in it's 7th year now. But it's damn nice. 0

Edit: Well, it will be!


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## chayos00

Beazley said:


> Although the stand is beautiful, I do believe you when you say you had never built anything like it before. It did take you three years, after all. :surprise::grin2::wink2:
> 
> I also know what it is like to be talented at things I've never done before. Take my current downstairs bathroom build, for instance. The project is in it's 7th year now. But it's damn nice. 0
> 
> Edit: Well, it will be!


HAHAHA Glad someone else understands! 7 years though, dang! LOL As long as it's turning out how you want it to!


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## chayos00

Got my pH levels on the spreadsheet now and think everything else besides the fish list. I put two numbers down for water changes, as it can vary a touch since I drain 70g from the tank and then some from the sump. The pH low number may be a bit off, I think I really only saw it at 5.9 once but more so at 6.0 for the other times I tested it. I'm curious with the longer full lighting times if that will drop the ph a bit more. 

I picked up 6 panda cories and 17 oto's this weekend when I went with only the reason to get more frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms. Funny how that happens huh?! Wife saw the receipt and was WTF?! LOL Whoops!


----------



## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> I picked up 6 panda cories and 17 oto's this weekend when I went with only the reason to get more frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms. Funny how that happens huh?! Wife saw the receipt and was WTF?! LOL Whoops!


17 oto's is going to be pretty cool to watch! Just having the 8-10 I have in each tank is cool. I would love to have a school of 30 or so one day. 

I hope you get some cool social behaviors when they settle in. Enjoy them!


----------



## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> 17 oto's is going to be pretty cool to watch! Just having the 8-10 I have in each tank is cool. I would love to have a school of 30 or so one day.
> 
> I hope you get some cool social behaviors when they settle in. Enjoy them!


The Oto's I've gotten in the past usually either end up passing in QT, but I've got a tank with a bunch algae in it, so hoping that will help! I need to get to the grocery store and get some zucchini to give them slices to eat as well. They all had fat little bellies so I'm hoping these guys will make it. However I did pull out a dead Oto and Panda this morning.... Fingers are crossed on the rest! 

I really do like seeing a school of otos too! They were just all super active in the store, so hope that's a good sign for them. 

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## Grobbins48

Yes, that is the one issue with them. Being wild caught, small, and not fed well they are usually I rough shape when they reach the store. 

Recently I have been keeping an eye on a new shipment for a couple weeks after delivery then snagging them. 'Only' lost 1 of 9 on the last purchase. 

Good luck with these ones, I hope the rest can pull through!


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## ChrisX

OTOS are great, but if you think about how many die in the whole chain, from capture, transport, transport, acclimation, transport, month 1, month 3, month 6... I would bet less than 10% are surviving overall. Which means the demand for otos is killing a vast number of them.

If adopting a kitten meant that nine other kittens had to die, how many people would be comfortable with that practice?

Don't mean to rain on the oto parade, but I've been doing alot of thinking about the ethics of keeping certain species. My feeling is that wild caught fish with low survival% shouldn't be in the hobby. There are also instances of wild fish populations being decimated and only captive bred species still exist. I think captive-bred species, with only very limited wild capture is probably best for the hobby.

I've considered getting otos, but the high mortality steers me away from them.


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> OTOS are great, but if you think about how many die in the whole chain, from capture, transport, transport, acclimation, transport, month 1, month 3, month 6... I would bet less than 10% are surviving overall. Which means the demand for otos is killing a vast number of them.
> 
> If adopting a kitten meant that nine other kittens had to die, how many people would be comfortable with that practice?
> 
> Don't mean to rain on the oto parade, but I've been doing alot of thinking about the ethics of keeping certain species. My feeling is that wild caught fish with low survival% shouldn't be in the hobby. There are also instances of wild fish populations being decimated and only captive bred species still exist. I think captive-bred species, with only very limited wild capture is probably best for the hobby.
> 
> I've considered getting otos, but the high mortality steers me away from them.


You are good! Yeah I totally get that and it makes me sad to think about how such a small percent do live. I want like 50 of them in my tank, but I know I'd spend hundreds and go through probably 2-3x as many to get 50 living ones. I really wish I could breed them, that would be awesome to do! However it sounds like on the commercial scale to do so, if I recall correctly they end up using hormones to get them to breed. They are a great little fish that I also wish were not a wild caught fish!


----------



## chayos00

I made RO water up to the 245g mark in my RO container this week, yesterday around 4pm I finally got my RO mineralization mix in the water and had my pump run until I started working today at 7:30am. So 15.5hrs of mixing at roughly 1500-2000gph with the pump I have. I checked the water about an hour later and noticed that it's milky looking still. The water is entering about 2" above the water surface when the tank is full like that. It didn't look like air bubbles through the water. Anyone else notice it takes a LONG time for the K2CO3, CASO4.2H2O, & MGSO4.7H2O to fully mix into the water? 

I need to order myself an air pump big enough that I can drop a large air stone into the tank at the bottom to half way point to get a constant mixing of water while using a MUCH lower wattage than this pump running at full speed.


----------



## Mike A.

ChrisX said:


> OTOS are great, but if you think about how many die in the whole chain, from capture, transport, transport, acclimation, transport, month 1, month 3, month 6... I would bet less than 10% are surviving overall. Which means the demand for otos is killing a vast number of them...


Saw these in an email that Aquatic Arts sent tonight - tank-raised otos. 

https://aquaticarts.com/products/otocinclus-catfish-tank-bred

Too expensive for me though at ~$8 each + overnight shipping.


----------



## chayos00

Mike A. said:


> Saw these in an email that Aquatic Arts sent tonight - tank-raised otos.
> 
> 
> 
> https://aquaticarts.com/products/otocinclus-catfish-tank-bred
> 
> 
> 
> Too expensive for me though at ~$8 each + overnight shipping.


Yeah I got that email too and was like sweet someone did it! Then followed the like and went WTF seeing the price tag! LOL 

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## KayakJimW

I'm taking a crack at breeding these currently. Nothing yet, but I got inspired after reading a few threads where otto kittens randomly appeared in a few peoples' tanks. The common denominator= they were the only fish in the tank, most happened in neo shrimp tanks. So that got me thinking maybe they aren't that hard to breed, just super easy for any other fish to eat. And they seem to dig neo parameters. I have a 10gallon that's been going for a while with just neo shrimp and snails so I threw a handful of ottos in there, stopped cleaning the glass on maintenance day, and play them some Barry White on occasion. We'll see what happens...


----------



## ChrisX

KayakJimW said:


> I'm taking a crack at breeding these currently. Nothing yet, but I got inspired after reading a few threads where otto kittens randomly appeared in a few peoples' tanks. The common denominator= they were the only fish in the tank, most happened in neo shrimp tanks. So that got me thinking maybe they aren't that hard to breed, just super easy for any other fish to eat. And they seem to dig neo parameters. I have a 10gallon that's been going for a while with just neo shrimp and snails so I threw a handful of ottos in there, stopped cleaning the glass on maintenance day, and play them some Barry White on occasion. We'll see what happens...


I had read it was impossible and had never been done. People often don't know the total population so I'm more inclined to think "new arrivals" are ones that disappeared in the brush and made a later appearance.


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## KayakJimW

ChrisX said:


> I had read it was impossible and had never been done. People often don't know the total population so I'm more inclined to think "new arrivals" are ones that disappeared in the brush and made a later appearance.



https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/86722-oto-fry-egg-updated-pics.html

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/115796-baby-otto%60s.html

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/88335-oto-journal.html


These are just threads from this site with pics. Several other threads out there with no pics, and stuff on other forums like TFH, Barr report, planet catfish, otocinclus.com and so on. I was skeptical too. For years! Until seeing a few where a pair or group kept on breeding I thought they must all be from WC gravid females releasing eggs in tanks. Also the link Mike A. put up isn't the first time I've seen "tank raised ottos" offered. And I've heard more than a few times that the TRs acclimate to new tanks with much higher survival rates than their WC cousins... My theory is that in the right environment, with the food, maybe even the right time of year? they can and will. Call it a _long term see what happens_, I'm not sciency enough to call it an experiment

Plus I've read way too many "facts" in this hobby and later found the opposite to be true. I'm not saying I'm right, just willing to give it a go

I've also read that their dense abundance in the wild and low price keeps folks from large scale breeding projects. It's very sad, but wholesalers are in it for the profit and it's expensive and time consuming to raise fry. When offered a $3 WC or an 8 dollar TR, most sales will be with the WC. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely HATE that that is true, but it's true especially since nobody buys just one.


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## ChrisX

KayakJimW said:


> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/86722-oto-fry-egg-updated-pics.html
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/115796-baby-otto%60s.html
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/88335-oto-journal.html
> 
> 
> These are just threads from this site with pics. Several other threads out there with no pics, and stuff on other forums like TFH, Barr report, planet catfish, otocinclus.com and so on. I was skeptical too. For years! Until seeing a few where a pair or group kept on breeding I thought they must all be from WC gravid females releasing eggs in tanks. Also the link Mike A. put up isn't the first time I've seen "tank raised ottos" offered. And I've heard more than a few times that the TRs acclimate to new tanks with much higher survival rates than their WC cousins... My theory is that in the right environment, with the food, maybe even the right time of year? they can and will. Call it a _long term see what happens_, I'm not sciency enough to call it an experiment
> 
> Plus I've read way too many "facts" in this hobby and later found the opposite to be true. I'm not saying I'm right, just willing to give it a go
> 
> I've also read that their dense abundance in the wild and low price keeps folks from large scale breeding projects. It's very sad, but wholesalers are in it for the profit and it's expensive and time consuming to raise fry. When offered a $3 WC or an 8 dollar TR, most sales will be with the WC. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely HATE that that is true, but it's true especially since nobody buys just one.


What no one wants is to pay $8 for TR and then find out they were actually WC.

I agree it should be possible to breed them in captivity. An indoor biotope pond perhaps.


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## KayakJimW

Surprising to me, a lot of the "reports" are in 5, 10 gallon small tanks. I think the higher end veggie diet folks give their neo shrimp helps condition the parents, along with stable water. No huge water changes or quick temp fluctuations, etc. A pond is a good idea too, I could even see an outdoor pond/tub in the right climate and season. I'm a firm believer in moon phases triggering spawning in certain, if not most species out there


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## Mike A.

KayakJimW said:


> ...and play them some Barry White on occasion...


:laugh2:


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## hbosman

ChrisX said:


> OTOS are great, but if you think about how many die in the whole chain, from capture, transport, transport, acclimation, transport, month 1, month 3, month 6... I would bet less than 10% are surviving overall. Which means the demand for otos is killing a vast number of them.
> 
> If adopting a kitten meant that nine other kittens had to die, how many people would be comfortable with that practice?
> 
> Don't mean to rain on the oto parade, but I've been doing alot of thinking about the ethics of keeping certain species. My feeling is that wild caught fish with low survival% shouldn't be in the hobby. There are also instances of wild fish populations being decimated and only captive bred species still exist. I think captive-bred species, with only very limited wild capture is probably best for the hobby.
> 
> I've considered getting otos, but the high mortality steers me away from them.


Sad but, there's another way to look at it. Cardinal Tetras for instance, mostly come from Barcelos Brazil. Population of 25,000 people who mostly make their living capturing and selling Cardinal Tetras. If Cardinals were easy to breed, these people would probably lose their lively hood and probably would have to resort to farming. That would be 25,000 people clearing that part of the Amazon rainforest. That "might" be even more sad. So, I buy Cardinal Tetras.

Anyway, thought I would put another view of that picture.


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## chayos00

With all this talk about breeding Oto's, it's got me thinking that I could try to setup their biotope in this 100g tank I have out in my garage, just need to get rid of the sunfish I have in there first. I would just need to ensure that I get rid of ALL the snails I have out in it first, maybe move my fat pea puffers out there and see if they reproduce first. LOL

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## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> With all this talk about breeding Oto's, it's got me thinking that I could try to setup their biotope in this 100g tank I have out in my garage, just need to get rid of the sunfish I have in there first. I would just need to ensure that I get rid of ALL the snails I have out in it first, maybe move my fat pea puffers out there and see if they reproduce first. LOL
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I would follow along on the journey! 100g of oto's....

Or, set up 6 20 gallon tanks so you can tweak parameters slightly different in all of them and see what yields results.


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## AguaScape

Grobbins48 said:


> I would follow along on the journey! 100g of oto's....
> 
> Or, set up 6 20 gallon tanks so you can tweak parameters slightly different in all of them and see what yields results.


This has me thinking. Perhaps even smaller tanks. Ottos are very small. It might be as simple as providing breeding caves with minimal competition for space. Maybe enough caves so that no one pair would be disturbing or trying to steal another one. Most catfish species like to breed and nurture in caves. Just a thought.


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## chayos00

Well I do have 4 20g tanks out in my garage already. Plus the 100g above them. I do wonder about that little cave idea now too, would be easy enough to make some and see if they like those and use them too. After these guys finish QT I could try giving them these little DIY pleco caves I got at the local fish club auction last month. Basically some clay pot true that we're glued together and had a little door cut in them. 

The local meeting is today and it was mentioned in the newsletter that there's a UV filter that's going to there, so I may try and go for it if it doesn't go for a crazy price. 

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## chayos00

Alright a few things in this update.

First this weekend our local fish club finally got around to the "Home Show" where everyone submits pictures of their tanks for the group to vote on who has the most voted on tank. I submitted a picture I'm pretty sure I posted on here of a full tank shot. Well, I won the greater than 30 gallon category and even won the best in show out of the top of the 4 categories that we had. Woot Woot! Never won anything before! Plus it's nice validation of all my hard work meaning something!!

Pretty sure it was this one.
FTS - 616 Day's


Second I won the bid and happened to be the only bidder on the AquaUV 15w Advanced 2000+ UV filter and just ordered a new bulb for it as the filaments looked a bit aged. The casing is a bit beaten up, but looks like it should be in tact, just need to splice it into my CO2 reactor, as the lines are 3/4" just like the filter and was my plan for the 25w unit I had been looking at, but was almost $300 vs this now $65 UV (winning bid and bulb price). Forrest brought a Coralife UV filter that I didn't bid on, but thinking about it now I should have and had it for use out in my QT rack... Bit late now!

Third I noticed today that one of my Anubias plants sprouted a flower and it's out on display now and there's a second flower from the largest Anubias plant in the tank! I've never seen a flowering aquatic plant before! I'll attach a picture in a bit from my phone.










Fourth I'm debating now that I have a UV filter, if I should go for the Seneye Reef PAR/PUR/LUX meter!? LOL Couldn't hurt being able to tune my LED setup a bit better!

Oh and I noticed this egg looking thing today when I was using my magnetic algae scraper. Could this be a cory egg? I tend to only find single eggs when I do if that's what they are.


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## Ken Keating1

Congrats on winning Best of Show! Your tank looks great, I like the layout.


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## ChrisX

FTS looks great! What LED settings do you use?


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Well, I won the greater than 30 gallon category and even won the best in show out of the top of the 4 categories that we had. Woot Woot! Never won anything before! Plus it's nice validation of all my hard work meaning something!!


Very cool! I'm not surprised, as you earned it.

All the hard work has paid off, and tank is looking great!


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## Grobbins48

Great update, and congratulations on winning best in show! Well deserved for sure!

As to the UV, do you plan on running it 24/7, just after water changes, or some other schedule? Just curious as to your thoughts there.

Underwater flowers are pretty cool to see, enjoy it, as they seem to be short lived (in my experience).

As for the PAR meter, seems to be a common theme over the past week or so!


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> FTS looks great! What LED settings do you use?


As far as setting, I just tuned the WRGB LEDs to what looked most pleasing to the eyes. I borrowed a PAR meter pre CO2 from a friend locally and tuned it to an average of 15, but after CO2 I went up 200% on the 15 par setting I was running. Haven't checked what the current PAR is though. If you want I can get a screenshot of the Excel spreadsheet with the actual tuned numbers. 

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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> Great update, and congratulations on winning best in show! Well deserved for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> As to the UV, do you plan on running it 24/7, just after water changes, or some other schedule? Just curious as to your thoughts there.
> 
> 
> 
> Underwater flowers are pretty cool to see, enjoy it, as they seem to be short lived (in my experience).
> 
> 
> 
> As for the PAR meter, seems to be a common theme over the past week or so!


Thanks everyone! I do appreciate the kind words!

As for the UV, the plan is to run it in conjunction with my CO2 reactor which is on just a bit before and after the CO2 and the lights. So about a 22 he period or so, as I don't cut off the reactor during the lighting siesta. 

Yeah the PAR meter does seem to be the current theme going on. LOL

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## chayos00

@ChrisX here's how my StormX is currently tuned for LED's. This is 250% above my 15 PAR numbers.


Tuned Light 1-16-2019 by chayos00, on Flickr


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## ChrisX

chayos00 said:


> @ChrisX here's how my StormX is currently tuned for LED's. This is 250% above my 15 PAR numbers.
> 
> 
> Tuned Light 1-16-2019 by chayos00, on Flickr


Thanks. You got rid of the normal red?

The pics look like a pretty high k in the 6500-7K range to me. v


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> Thanks. You got rid of the normal red?
> 
> The pics look like a pretty high k in the 6500-7K range to me. v


These are all the original LED's that I first built the fixture with. If my notes are correct I used these for the reds. "PHILIPS LUXEON ES DEEP RED 3 WATT LEDS - RARE VERSION!" I can't find the actual one listed on Steve's LED's to confirm the NM range. But googling best I can find is it should be 650-670nm.

RBG LED's. 
PHILIPS LUXEON Rebel ES Royal Blue LED
PHILIPS LUXEON ES CYAN 3 WATT LEDS
PHILIPS LUXEON ES TRUE COOL BLUE 3 WATT LEDS
PHILIPS LUXEON ES DEEP RED 3 WATT LEDS

For the UV LED's
SemiLEDs True Violet UV LED (400-410nm)
SemiLEDs Violet UV LED (410-420nm)
SemiLEDs Hyper Violet UV LED (420-430nm)


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## chayos00

Okay... I did a thing.... I just ordered the Seneye Reef! LOL I couldn't resist not having one as I can tweak and tune my LED setup with the different colored LED's. Should be here on Monday, got it from BRS (BulkReefSupply).


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## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> Okay... I did a thing.... I just ordered the Seneye Reef! LOL I couldn't resist not having one as I can tweak and tune my LED setup with the different colored LED's. Should be here on Monday, got it from BRS (BulkReefSupply).


'Another one bites the dust!'


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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> 'Another one bites the dust!'


Hahahahaha

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## chayos00

The random fish egg hatched today. I tried to take some pictures to show it, but not sure how well that will come across. It's got an elongated body. Which, I have some loaches, otos, clown plecos I haven't seen in a while, or possibly the cories. If it lives time will tell. It's hugging the bottom of the tank at the moment. I dug out a little breeder box that I just setup to try and keep it alive in. Gonna grab some mosses to give it something.























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## KayakJimW

I like the design of that breeder box, do you recall who makes them?


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## chayos00

KayakJimW said:


> I like the design of that breeder box, do you recall who makes them?


I got the large size one. *Marina Hang-On Breeding Box *

I then have this pump pushing the water through the box. I have the pump on it's lowest setting. As well as I have a small piece of poret foam that I cut to fit the outflow slot to keep any babies in the breeder box. *VicTsing 80 GPH (300L/H, 4W)*


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## KayakJimW

Pretty slick! 
thanks


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## chayos00

So when I was doing my weekly water change I noticed that sometime today that little baby fry got out of my fry tank and into the sump. I was able to spot it and got it back in the fry tank. THen when I was pulling up some moss from the sump I dropped it in the fry tank and low and behold the first one I found was actually a bigger one than this second one, which I think was the one that was initially in the tank. The bigger one didn't look to be doing well, so I recalled I had some repashy fry and spawn mix so I threw some mixed in water into that tank. I also then setup a collection of my vinegar eels to throw in the with the fry to hopefully give them something to entice them to chow down on. 

Either way, I'm 99% sure the fry are cory cat's. Now if I can get them to grow out and determine if it's a juli or a panda, I can try to move some cory's out into my spare 20g tanks and try to breed them!


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## ChrisX

chayos00 said:


> So when I was doing my weekly water change I noticed that sometime today that little baby fry got out of my fry tank and into the sump. I was able to spot it and got it back in the fry tank. THen when I was pulling up some moss from the sump I dropped it in the fry tank and low and behold the first one I found was actually a bigger one than this second one, which I think was the one that was initially in the tank. The bigger one didn't look to be doing well, so I recalled I had some repashy fry and spawn mix so I threw some mixed in water into that tank. I also then setup a collection of my vinegar eels to throw in the with the fry to hopefully give them something to entice them to chow down on.
> 
> Either way, I'm 99% sure the fry are cory cat's. Now if I can get them to grow out and determine if it's a juli or a panda, I can try to move some cory's out into my spare 20g tanks and try to breed them!



Thats so cool. Wouldn't it be great if we could buy fry mix and grow out unidentified fry?

Look! A Neon!

Look! A Serpae!

Look! A Red Devil!


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> Thats so cool. Wouldn't it be great if we could buy fry mix and grow out unidentified fry?
> 
> Look! A Neon!
> 
> Look! A Serpae!
> 
> Look! A Red Devil!


HAHAHA That would be a fun game of "What fry is this?" 

Speaking of fry, the bigger cory fry died last night. I didn't have a good feeling when I saw him yesterday, as it was alive, but seemed to be barely. I sprinkled in a bit of repashy spawn and grow but it must of been too far gone to eat. Today I cultivated a mix of vinegar eels and filled the breeder box with them in hopes that the living fry does try to eat some. 

While I was scoping out the tank for some more eggs this morning, I discovered a 1/4 sized young baby panda cory!! They were hiding under the phoenix moss between the rock and the s. repens. I'm sooooo glad it's the panda's as I really like their look! I've got the best picture I could get of it on my phone that I'll add to this post. It's not a great one, but you can see the baby and the big body of the adult panda behind it.


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## DanG

We have kind of a blizzard coming in in these parts (ain't Arizona), so we're having a quiet evening at home waiting for the feet of snow to fall, and I just discovered this thread and read the whole thing. Did skip some detailed posts about dosing data, etc. Wow! Amazing! Thanks for sharing and for your amazing efforts. And thanks to all those who added informative posts. I've learned a lot. Congratulations on your winning recognition for your tank! What an inspiration your commitment is.


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## chayos00

dang said:


> We have kind of a blizzard coming in in these parts (ain't Arizona), so we're having a quiet evening at home waiting for the feet of snow to fall, and I just discovered this thread and read the whole thing. Did skip some detailed posts about dosing data, etc. Wow! Amazing! Thanks for sharing and for your amazing efforts. And thanks to all those who added informative posts. I've learned a lot. Congratulations on your winning recognition for your tank! What an inspiration your commitment is.


Thanks for the kind words! I'd be down for a blizzard here in southern AZ! LOL 

Today I finally got the AquaUV device plugged into the CO2 line, glad I ended up using 3/4" tubing for the reactor when I built it! I ordered a new bulb for it, but I decided to give the current bulb a shot for a while. I tried to compare the look of both the new and the bulb it came with and they visually appeared the same, so who knows... Oh got the Seneye today, but due to two sick kiddos I didn't get a chance to test it out. But as I got to cut out early as I was working today during a company holiday and due to low volumes I left early and luckily got to the gas store and swapped out on of my exhausted tanks and got the ugliest swap ever, crappy green paint over it all and no handle to carry it. LOL

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## chayos00

Just plugged in the Seneye Reef to check out the lighting, I dipped it into my 10g desktop tank, that I just took out the brown plastic glass hinge and found that tank has about 60 PAR at the substrate with the Finnex Planted+ on that tank. MUCH more than I thought, also explains the constant algae that gets on the glass too. When I build up my CO2 regulator I'm going to set up a T on it to run over to this 10g tank and give it like 0.5-1bps of CO2. Time to DIY something to allow me to place this PAR meter in my big tank vs using my hand to try and get readings with it.


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## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> Just plugged in the Seneye Reef to check out the lighting, I dipped it into my 10g desktop tank, that I just took out the brown plastic glass hinge and found that tank has about 60 PAR at the substrate with the Finnex Planted+ on that tank. MUCH more than I thought, also explains the constant algae that gets on the glass too. When I build up my CO2 regulator I'm going to set up a T on it to run over to this 10g tank and give it like 0.5-1bps of CO2. Time to DIY something to allow me to place this PAR meter in my big tank vs using my hand to try and get readings with it.


Here is what I rigged up. Cut a slat into the PVC at 45ish degrees and put a flat plastic piece in. Then hot glue together and done. Rubber bands hold it in place.

The cord of the seneye can actually fit through the PVC to keep it out of the way.


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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> Here is what I rigged up. Cut a slat into the PVC at 45ish degrees and put a flat plastic piece in. Then hot glue together and done. Rubber bands hold it in place.
> 
> The cord of the seneye can actually fit through the PVC to keep it out of the way.


Pretty similar to what I was thinking. I found a small piece of left over acrylic that I used for my overflow. Here's what I've got glued up and drying.









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## Grobbins48

Looking much less 'hacked' together than mine! Nice work!


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## Mike A.

I wonder if the white of the PVC right next to the sensor affects the reading vs something dark? I don't have the Seneye and haven't measured it but to the 'Myeye' my tanks with lighter substrate appear much, much brighter with the exactly same lighting. And I know from other practical experience than something light colored near, for example, my security cameras (even out of view as the PVC is angled) can generate a lot of glare/reflected light that gets picked up by the camera's sensor. That might be an interesting test to do if you could find some quick and easy way to temporarily matte black it out.


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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> Looking much less 'hacked' together than mine! Nice work!


Thanks! If the acrylic glue holds it might not be a hack job, but always feels like Zim ghetto rigging something! Hahaha





Mike A. said:


> I wonder if the white of the PVC right next to the sensor affects the reading vs something dark? I don't have the Seneye and haven't measured it but to the 'Myeye' my tanks with lighter substrate appear much, much brighter with the exactly same lighting. And I know from other practical experience than something light colored near, for example, my security cameras (even out of view as the PVC is angled) can generate a lot of glare/reflected light that gets picked up by the camera's sensor. That might be an interesting test to do if you could find some quick and easy way to temporarily matte black it out.


That an interesting idea! May have to see if I can find any black material to see what I can try testing out in open air to see if their is a variance. 

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## chayos00

I've been out for the count with a nasty stomach bug that went around my house last week. Only today have I felt human again. So haven't had a chance or motivation to test out they Seneye meter. 

However the Panda Cories I moved out to a 20g have been laying quite the number of eggs in their new tank! I counted about 22-24 eggs on the front glass. I hope these babies do better than the one that didn't make it in my breeder container I had hanging from my sump tank. After a day or two after the eggs start to hatch I'm gonna setup my in tank brine shrimp hatchery in hopes it will feed the babies! I'd be stoked to get 20 baby Cories or more!









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## chayos00

So I played around with my Seneye meter finally. I had a bit of trouble figuring out how to get a screenshot of the software. I saw it do the countdown when you click top, middle, bottom, or free, but only once could I get it to show any sort of giving a copy of the screen. Either way. I got the following, I tested it from my baseline of 100% (preCO2 around 15 par) at the 200% and 250% level. I've been running at 250%, but dropped it down to 200%. You'll see the setting the StormX is set at and the bottom area has the measured light info. Much more PAR than I thought!


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## ChrisX

The "250%" setting is your normal every day tank setting? 250% of what? 

It appears that the StormX lets you choose a baseline and then you can mutiply that? When you are running at 250%, it appears that some of your channels are at roughly "half" and the other channels much less.

All of the tests we ran showed PUR at 60% and K temp at 4500K (6500K mixed with Deep Red.) To my eyes, your tank pics looks "brighter" than mine but according to the Seneye, yours may be a little bit warmer. We didnt get a chance to test just my 6500K channel, I wonder if the Seneye it accurate on color temp when used on individual channels?


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## Grobbins48

I had the same issues with the screen captures with the Seneye, so I just use print screen and cropped it.


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> The "250%" setting is your normal every day tank setting? 250% of what?
> 
> 
> 
> It appears that the StormX lets you choose a baseline and then you can mutiply that? When you are running at 250%, it appears that some of your channels are at roughly "half" and the other channels much less.
> 
> 
> 
> All of the tests we ran showed PUR at 60% and K temp at 4500K (6500K mixed with Deep Red.) To my eyes, your tank pics looks "brighter" than mine but according to the Seneye, yours may be a little bit warmer. We didnt get a chance to test just my 6500K channel, I wonder if the Seneye it accurate on color temp when used on individual channels?


So the whole percentage part of it starts from when I borrowed my first PAR meter from a guy at my local fish club and tuned my setup to about 15 PAR at 100%. So I took those StormX numbers as the tuned column and then I did some excel calculations and then I set the StormX as close to those percentage increase as I can, so those are the actual column numbers. 

My Planted+ fixture was pretty close to 6.5k on my 10g tank and 60-65 PAR at the substrate. Makes sense why the stone in that tank is coated in green! LOL 

I'll try to test out each Vero to see what they read. 

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## chayos00

The other week I setup that UV device in line on my CO2 reactor. I never thought twice about it slowing the flow on my CO2 reactor down till I just realized today that I need to bump up my DC pump from 70% power to 100% to see if that helps agitate the CO2 bubbles more to get them dissolving again at a better rate. As when my CO2 cuts of for the midday siesta I hear a heck of a gurgle that takes an hour to clear out. Might explain why my CO2 pH has crept up to 6.2 vs 5.9-6.0.


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## chayos00

Between trying to get the kiddos to bed and seeing the game, I decided to take a picture of my aquarium as the lights are sunsetting.

Just out of curiosity I had my phone black and white it too and figured I'd share the original and the B&W one.
















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## chayos00

Just ordered an air pump from Amazon, hopefully it'll work for the water reservoir with it's 7' depth if full of 250g vs my so far normal 100g depth at 3-4'. I ordered two 2x4" airstones to do the mixing. Having this running at 35w vs the 200w + of the water pump for mixing should help cut power use. 

EcoPlus 1030 GPH (3900 LPH, 35W) Commercial Air Pump w/ 6 Valves

VIVOSUN Air Stone 2PCS 4 X 2 Inch Large Air Stone Cylinder


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## chayos00

Trying to figure out what's up with my CO2 pH drop numbers, I had almost thought I had it figured out, but turns out the Nutrafin KH/GH kit still does their numbers via PPM and not the dKH/dGH numbers. So my dGH is at about 3.3dGH and dKH at 1.68dKH. I'm waiting till Friday to check my pH numbers on my degassed water from the fresh fill for the weekly water change. 

I really do wonder if my issue is adding in the UV light inline to the CO2 reactor. However that has me now wondering if I need to put a T in my plumbing for my return pump and use that to feed the UV filter. Also if I do that then I thought about changing the CO2 reactor feed and exit lines to 1" vs 3/4", however without the UV inline I was running the pump at 70% power, whereas now I've had to up it to 100%.


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## Omar EAZi

spent 2 hours at work going through this thread! it has to be the longest thread I've been through on this forum haha!! it was a great read though!! you got an amazing tank going on, the stand built part was my favorite, so much work was put into it. I like how you're upgrading your tank throughout to a high tech tank from being a low tech when it started. Keep the updates on and good luck!! subbed afcourse!


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## chayos00

Figured I might want to post this on here too. I just placed my order through Wika's (pressure gauges) online site, as I couldn't find a matching pair of gauges for the low and the high anywhere online, well I take that back, one set on Amazon, but it would be 3-5 weeks for one of the gauges. 

Got the Wika 9768700 (0-100psi) & 9768637 (0-1500psi). All SS internals and casing, so should look nice on the nickel plated regulator I've got.


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## chayos00

I moved a pair of puffers into my 10g desktop tank and figured that would be a good spot to see if I can get them into the mating mood. Well after about a week, they are comfortable in the tank as they were "gettin busy" yesterday. I decided to be the rude voyer and record them LOL I did see some eggs pop out, so hopefully they do it again today and I'll remove the adults and get some babies! Fingers crossed!


----------



## KayakJimW

chayos00 said:


> I just placed my order through Wika's (pressure gauges) online site...
> Got the Wika 9768700 (0-100psi) & 9768637 (0-1500psi)...


Bling Bling! My appreciation for custom regs is starting to grow. I catch myself shopping around for good deals on high end parts but haven't started accumulating anything for a build yet. Still in the "absorbing information" stage. I like the ranges you selected. You going to fill them or run dry?

Very cool puffer video too, btw


----------



## chayos00

KayakJimW said:


> Bling Bling! My appreciation for custom regs is starting to grow. I catch myself shopping around for good deals on high end parts but haven't started accumulating anything for a build yet. Still in the "absorbing information" stage. I like the ranges you selected. You going to fill them or run dry?
> 
> 
> 
> Very cool puffer video too, btw


I'm going to run them dry. As the regulator/gauges/bottle doesn't experience vibrations, there's really no need for the fluid in the gauges. However it should be able to be added later at some point. 

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## chayos00

Been a stretch since my last tank update. I've upped my phosphate from 6ppm to 8ppm and saw GSA go a way for a bit. Then I had a sudden flux of it for a week and didn't realize till I did a water change that my micro reservoir ran empty. HAHAHA Whoops! Funny how a sudden change of fertz can screw with things! Got that all back under control and chopped back a bunch of my overgrowing/expanding plants. Took out some large groups of Java Fern and some Needle Leaf variety too. Which that makes part of me wonder if I ought to try selling those plants, as they are pretty good sized. Then mowed down my "grass" of S. Repens and sold some at the local meeting, but going to chuck the rest of it, as I just took all the plants and plopped them in a 5g bucket till I decided if I wanted to try selling these plants or not. I also took out the rock on the front right side that was covered in Phoenix Moss (fissidens fontanus), which I have a huge clump of that that I probably ought to sell as well as it cost a decent amount to just get it started too. Other than the big trim back, not much has changed. Still haven't found a post body CO2 setup yet, but I need to! 

Don't mind the floating fish container, I've got a sick dwarf pea puffer, who I think is on their way out. Figured it'd be easier to keep it "trapped" so I can take her out when she passes. 

Also I've tried playing with my camera a bit to not get such washed out images, but they turned out a bit darker, but it also didn't have that bit of a washed out look either. I really do need to learn how to use my DSLR camera! I also got myself a tripod for it finally! LOL 

FTS - Day 744 - 03/15/2019
IMG_4947 by chayos00, on Flickr

Left Side - Day 744 - 03/15/2019 
IMG_4951 by chayos00, on Flickr

Right Side - Day 744 - 03/15/2019 
IMG_4952 by chayos00, on Flickr

Here's a shot of how my Bylxa Japonica has changed being put in my 10g desktop tank, that I have removed all the fish from and now got a strain of blue shrimp that I'm hoping will reproduce and if they do well, I'll move some over to the 125g too! I was supposed to get some shrimp from Forrest, but just haven't had the time to do so. Most weekends my wife works, so it's just me and the kiddos and it's a PITA taking them around town. 

Blyxa Japonica - 10g Tank by chayos00, on Flickr

Blue Shrimp - 10g Tank by chayos00, on Flickr

Bump: Oh, forgot the post water change action shot. LOL I had to vacuum out the BDBS from the sump's first chamber as I had some trimmings growing in some tupperware, but took them out and when the water level gets low it stirs the sand up and out of the tupperware I use. 

IMG_4932 by chayos00, on Flickr


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## chayos00

ERRR mah gurd babies! The panda cories I moved into the garage tank to breed did lay a bunch of eggs at one point, but never noticed any babies. However I think I counted three the other day. Two at different stages in growth, one without colors and the other did have colors. 

Also have three Kerri tetra babies growing out in a breeder box on the sump of my 125g. I also picked up some matala mat based upon a video I saw the other week by Ted Judy on YouTube. I'm going to add it to the tank I moved my two remaining CPD fish in to see if I can't get them to make me some damned babies! Basically it gives tiny fry a place to hide while keeping the parents away. I wonder if the cories would do okay with this setup too. I ordered two sheets for two of my 20g's, but I may get another two for each of the 4 20g tanks. One tank with panda cories, 1 with two CPD's, then two with some Kerri Tetra's. Figured I've give the Kerri's a go to see if they would breed and I could sell them to a "semi local" LFS for a hundred bucks at a time. Could use more funds for fish tank stuff! LOL Which I have some large java fern plants that I wondered if I ought to try selling, since I grow a TON of it and they get pretty big. 

https://youtu.be/5EtMgfmVuGs?t=925


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## chayos00

Just discovered this deal and also ordered one. It's a wifi power strip that is on sale for mid $40's price on Amazon. I figured some on here may not want to pass up on one too, so wasn't really sure where else to share this info since @Greggz already has one. This can replace all of your mechanical or other timers on to one nice convenient digital timer power strip. I might have to order a second one for my RO system so I can have everything there on a timer too vs all manual control. 

Make sure to also click on the 20% off at checkout button/coupon too! Shows as $55, but takes another $12 off this way. 

Kasa Smart WiFi Power Strip by TP-Link - 6 Outlet Surge Protection, Works with Alexa Echo & Google (HS300) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G95FFN3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_.rlPCb1333X4A

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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Make sure to also click on the 20% off at checkout button/coupon too! Shows as $55, but takes another $12 off this way.
> 
> Kasa Smart WiFi Power Strip by TP-Link - 6 Outlet Surge Protection, Works with Alexa Echo & Google (HS300) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G95FFN3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_.rlPCb1333X4A
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Very good information. I am going to order another one for my RO set up.

When I go to checkout, I don't see how to get the additional discount. Is there a promotion code??


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Very good information. I am going to order another one for my RO set up.
> 
> When I go to checkout, I don't see how to get the additional discount. Is there a promotion code??


When I ordered it I used the Amazon app, I'll try to screenshot what that looks like in a moment. But when I checked on the PC I added the item to my cart and just below the price, there was a"Save 20% Clip Coupon" button under that.

It appears that via the Android Amazon app it's also in the cart only, it wasn't when I ordered earlier.


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## chayos00

Update: It's already out of stock when I tried to process a second one....

Or maybe it's only just letting me buy just one....

Update again....: I setup my wife with a family account on Amazon so I was then able to order a second Kasa plug, but it wouldn't let me get the 20% off coupon either... @Greggz


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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Update: It's already out of stock when I tried to process a second one....
> 
> Or maybe it's only just letting me buy just one....
> 
> Update again....: I setup my wife with a family account on Amazon so I was then able to order a second Kasa plug, but it wouldn't let me get the 20% off coupon either... @Greggz


Thanks and I went ahead and ordered another one. Still much cheaper than the first one I bought.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Thanks and I went ahead and ordered another one. Still much cheaper than the first one I bought.


Yes it is! Just glad the first one let me get it down in the $40's for the price, like you said still much cheaper than originally priced!


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## Wobblebonk

I went ahead and ordered one to try but I don't really know why I need it...


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## Greggz

Wobblebonk said:


> I went ahead and ordered one to try but I don't really know why I need it...


LOL!:grin2:


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## chayos00

Wobblebonk said:


> I went ahead and ordered one to try but I don't really know why I need it...


You need/want cuz @Greggz starts trends! 

So I finally am getting my fleabay CO2 setup going. I decided to skip the needle valve as it came with some sort of manual large scale one and get just a Burkert valve off Amazon and then a push to connect fitting. However the valve did t come with the power connector even though the description said it did, one should be delivered tomorrow. I did also order a second valve and we will see if this one comes with it or not and then I'll yell at Amazon depending upon what I get. 

The gauges are the new wika ones too.









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## Immortal1

Great looking regulator - really like the gauge range on that one! Really hate having a 3,000 to 4,000 HP gauge when the tank will never go over 1,000psi. Also very nice to see a "readable" 20psi on the low side.


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## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> Great looking regulator - really like the gauge range on that one! Really hate having a 3,000 to 4,000 HP gauge when the tank will never go over 1,000psi. Also very nice to see a "readable" 20psi on the low side.


Yeah I had a hard time with that crappy gauge reading on my Aquatec regulator so I wanted to dial it down lower to be able to read pressures! Since my 20lb CO2 tank takes like 2 weeks to bleed down this will be much easier to really read what the pressures are, besides 1.5" vs 2.5" gauges are much bigger to see! I did have to order them directly from the Wika site as I could find a matching 0-100 or 160 or a 0-1000 to 1500 set. It was always one was available on Amazon or fleabay but the matching one wasn't.


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## ObsidianRose

Wobblebonk said:


> I went ahead and ordered one to try but I don't really know why I need it...


They're good stuff. You won't regret it. Even though I had one already I ordered a second so I can get more finite control over my lights and control every component of my aquarium by voice.


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## Wobblebonk

I don't use any of that voice control stuff... probably just going to use it so I don't need 2 separate timers for a rimless tank I set up recently. Now if it could do ramping on dimmable 120v bulbs that would be amazing :/


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## chayos00

Wobblebonk said:


> I don't use any of that voice control stuff... probably just going to use it so I don't need 2 separate timers for a rimless tank I set up recently. Now if it could do ramping on dimmable 120v bulbs that would be amazing :/


I got an Alexa about 2 years ago that hasn't ever made it out of the box. No need for any more "digital surveillance" than we already expose ourselves to! LOL


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## chayos00

Got the Kasa outlet working already! LOL Pretty simple IMO to setup, just took a bit to set the schedules up as I have a mid day siesta for the lights and CO2.









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## chayos00

So looks like my Panda cories have had 4 babies. These are the best pictures I was able to get of them. 

I've also been researching more about breeding fry and I'm thinking of some new tips/methods to try and get some babies from my Cardinals, Rummynose, and maybe some more tetras.























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## chayos00

So uh.... Had about an inch of water sitting in the stand for an unknown reason. Have had it open and looking for a leak with no trace of one for the last 24hrs. Glad I built the stand to hold water! Figured the sump cracked a pane of glass or blew a seal and thought this could be my excuse to upgrade to a 75g.... LOL 

On another note I found another 4 or 5 panda Cory babies! 

I also got my nickel plated CO2 2.5" fitting for the regulator and now got the whole thing all together and ready. Was just giving the sealant used on the fittings 24hrs to dry.


















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## chayos00

Got my CO2 regulator switched out yesterday, seems to be that my Dwyer flow meter has a more stable reading now too. I kept having to tweak it whenever it came back online, now it's staying right on the money! 

I think now the idea of finding a 90° fitting to fit the Burkert valve towards the back side is the next tweak for this setup, don't think I can fit it all facing out as it sits. 

Oh and damned that valve runs HOT! The body reads 150-155°F, but I know the metal center post is hotter, but my IR gage doesn't read shiny metal, but my fingers tell me it's damned hotter compared to the body of the valve! As per Google they just run hot I guess.









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## Immortal1

Really do like those gauge ranges - honestly it's all you need for our type of setups (planted tanks). 
Good to hear the Dwyer is working out for you - or should I say, the needle valve / regulator is staying rock steady.
Did you ever figure out the water leak issue?


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## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> Really do like those gauge ranges - honestly it's all you need for our type of setups (planted tanks).
> 
> Good to hear the Dwyer is working out for you - or should I say, the needle valve / regulator is staying rock steady.
> 
> Did you ever figure out the water leak issue?


Yeah I thought to myself when I first for the AquaTek why do they have such a high range when we never getting that high on our pressures and then I noticed Alan on here with his customer built regulators using gauges like I picked and figured why not!? I didn't go with a 1k bottle gauge as there was something about not having the pressure exceed about 75% of max so thus the 1500 psi, which does seem perfect to me. Same with the low side, think the regulator will do 150, but have no plans for more than 40psi ever. It's really nice being able to actually read the pressures clearly! 

I could probably get rid of that little valve that this regulator came with too since I've got it wide open and use that Dwyer flow meter. But think I kept it just as a "fitting" to connect the Burkert valve, but if I do get a 90° fitting it may go. 

As far as the leak, I cannot/could not find any sort of source. I do have a theory that the little breeder box I have on my sump that hangs over the side could have been a source of the leak, like if the something had plugged the outflow it could have spilled over. As it was full of moss's. I'm in the process of IDing things I can put in a tote and store in the closet outside my den to allow me to have fewer things just sitting in the bottom of the stand now. Then what I do keep in the stand will fit in this plastic three drawer cabinet thing that was holding most of my hardly used items. 

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## KayakJimW

+1 on those guages



chayos00 said:


> I could probably get rid of that little valve that this regulator came with too since I've got it wide open and use that Dwyer flow meter. But think I kept it just as a "fitting" to connect the Burkert valve, but if I do get a 90° fitting it may go.


I've been really enjoying the Dywer flowmeter on my 90. FWIW, I like keeping my regulator's needle valve set to just a smidge more open than the Dwyer as a safety net incase the flowmeter ever fails. Not that I feel like it will, just a second line of defense for the fish...

I open the Dwyer all the way and set the reg's nv for 10CC/min higher than I want, then tune it down w the Dwyer valve


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## chayos00

KayakJimW said:


> +1 on those guages
> 
> 
> 
> I've been really enjoying the Dywer flowmeter on my 90. FWIW, I like keeping my regulator's needle valve set to just a smidge more open than the Dwyer as a safety net incase the flowmeter ever fails. Not that I feel like it will, just a second line of defense for the fish...
> 
> I open the Dwyer all the way and set the reg's nv for 10CC/min higher than I want, then tune it down w the Dwyer valve


I tried yesterday to see if that valve that came with the regulator could tune the meter to a setting just above 100cc/min, but it's more of a macro vs micro style of valve. If I had a lower flow rate need I might have been able to get a more precise setting I could tell or use, but since I'm already at the 80-90cc/min rate at the gauge goes up to 100, now if I had a 30-250 one it might have been doable. 

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## vvDO

chayos00 said:


> I tried yesterday to see if that valve that came with the regulator could tune the meter to a setting just above 100cc/min, but it's more of a macro vs micro style of valve. If I had a lower flow rate need I might have been able to get a more precise setting I could tell or use, but since I'm already at the 80-90cc/min rate at the gauge goes up to 100, now if I had a 30-250 one it might have been doable.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




That valve is probably only meant to serve as a shut off valve... can come in handy if you want to leak test your regulator with every CO2 cylinder change. I previously had a leak at the CGA 320 stem as it went to the reg... it was due to me inadvertently twisting the reg while trying to tighten the nut onto CO2 tank. If I had leak tested (solenoid off it had a shut off valve and CO2 tank turned off after pressurizing the high pressure side) it I would not have lost a 20lb tank in less than 3 weeks.


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## riggles17

Checking in after being away for awhile. God I love this setup, great job again man!


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## chayos00

riggles17 said:


> Checking in after being away for awhile. God I love this setup, great job again man!
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Thank you! 

Also I'm working on a possible upgrade for another tank I have in my garage, the 100g tank I have some other random fish in. It may grow either by 2x or 3x this size! A friend and I were going to flip a pair of tanks we got for cheap on FB and just may end up keeping one of them. The glass tank is in good shape, but I want to see how the bigger acrylic one is before deciding. They are over at my buddies house as he has a MASSIVE garage he's holding them in at the moment. 

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## riggles17

chayos00 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Also I'm working on a possible upgrade for another tank I have in my garage, the 100g tank I have some other random fish in. It may grow either by 2x or 3x this size! A friend and I were going to flip a pair of tanks we got for cheap on FB and just may end up keeping one of them. The glass tank is in good shape, but I want to see how the bigger acrylic one is before deciding. They are over at my buddies house as he has a MASSIVE garage he's holding them in at the moment.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Ya rub it in that even my first setup isn't complete ;p that's awesome man, good for you. Can't wait to see where it goes! I see your overflow box is still holding up well, eh?

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## chayos00

riggles17 said:


> Ya rub it in that even my first setup isn't complete ;p that's awesome man, good for you. Can't wait to see where it goes! I see your overflow box is still holding up well, eh?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


LOL it did take me three years to build this stand, so totally understand how that feels! Good things come to those who wait. 

The overflow box is doing well, no issues with it at all. It's funny seeing how thick of an acrylic was used on these two tanks we grabbed are. The one is like a 1/2 thick vs the 1/4" or what ever I used was.









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## chayos00

I'm going to attempt to breed Amano shrimp again, this time with a cycled SW tank set at 30ppt salt. The 10g tank is setup and ready to go for a cycle. I dumped in some Dr Tim's to try and help establish the cycle. I made a tight fitting cover from acrylic from home depot. Got the Fluval Planted+ lights on the tank and will leave them on 24/7 to try and grow algae.

I noticed one of my female Amanos berried the other day! Woot Woot!









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## chayos00

Didn't take long for algae to take off in this Amano breeding tank! Granted having a Planted+ light on 24/7 sure does help! Just need to get this tank cycled now! 










The Panda cories keep popping out new babies, so happy about that for sure! Wondering if the Indian almond leaves are helping! Also saw a baby cherry shrimp in that tank too! I added them as I read they would eat fungus if it got on the Panda eggs. Still don't have any berried females of the blue shrimp I have in my desktop 10g tank.


















And for other news! This is the big one! I've managed to score a 300g (96L x 24"W x 30"T) acrylic tank from the local Salty fish group! It's gonna need some buffing and removal on the half hacked internal sump, but will be replacing a 100g that's out in my garage as part of my QT/breeding rack. I've been trying to figure out what to do for a filter setup for that tank, but I think I have it figured out. I already have e a SunSun HW-404B canister and wondered about getting either 2 or 3 overall and filtering the tank with that. But then I was looking at "giant DIY canisters" and came across pond drum filters using matala mat filter media. Which may be the route I go with as I need to get rid of the 100g tank so I can't make it a sump. The 55g plastic drum method still kind of becomes a sump, but just a vertical one minus the overflow aspect and it's a sealed setup with an internal pump, which I could possibly setup with low volume 24/7 CO2, but at like a 5cc/min just enough for a plant boost, I still have a spare CO2 regulator if I did decide to do that. Too bad the media and another pump would cost another $400 or so, about $200 for the media and the same for a DC pump.










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## chayos00

It's here! Now to clean it, sand it, polish it, and build it a stand. But I'm sure some honey do's will need to be done first!! 

96'L x 24"W x 30"T
A Tenecor acrylic tank, unsure of it's age. It had the Simplicity Plus internal sump, but the guy I got the tank from broke it out and I'm gonna finish removing it.









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## Greggz

Did you say build a stand?

Looking forward to seeing this planted in 2022!>


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Did you say build a stand?
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to seeing this planted in 2022!>


Hahahaha As it's going to replace the 100g in the garage it's just going to be a 2x4 & 2x6 rough finish stand, nothing pretty that would go in my house. So like that other stand it took a day to do, so this stand should be similar in build time, just a weekend is all it should take. That stand is on the first post for my QT rack. It will be this summer sometime that I anticipate getting it running. 

Oh and gonna be just a lite planting in this tank. 

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## chayos00

To make it easier to see, this will be what the stand will be like.


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## chayos00

I got the 300g as cleaned up as I could. The majority of the salt crust it removed that I could get. I discovered that internal sump setup that Tenecor did the "Simplicity Plus" seemed to give the back glass some extra rigidity, as they cheaped out went with 1/2" vs 3/4" like the front pane. I'm going to sand smooth the area's that the 1/4" sheets were glued to the back of the tank and then I'm going to contact a local acrylic supplier to see if I can get 1/2" or 1" square rods of acrylic and glue them across the back to give the acrylic that needed bracing to enforce the back acrylic. I didn't remove it, but the person before did to get back that 4-6" of lost space from that internal sump, which from what I read was pointless as Tenecor used bioballs. I was thinking about drilling out the bulkhead holes as they are setup for 1" bulkheads (based on the ones from BRS) and either stepping them up to 1.25" or 1.5" and doing a dual intake to reduce an flow issues as well as doing a dual return back to the tank. I'm going to see what the biggest DC pump I can find will be to use, then I can always scale it up or down to get the needed flow. Figured if my 125 is good with 911gph on a Jebao DC-12000 @ speed 3 of 6, then a 300 ought to be good with 2100gph, so maybe more like 1500-2000gph. Eh... who knows, I'll see what I end up building with it and what the flow in the tank actually looks like. 

Waiting for it to fill....









Kid comparison, 30" tall tank to a 2 year old. Just has to play in the water LOL









The soon to be removed former intank sump.









Left side shot showing acrylic condition.









Front showing acrylic condition, lots of light scratching making it hazy.


















Right side shot showing acrylic condition.


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## Immortal1

I now see what you mean by the internal sump - that is a bit different than what I have seen. Would be nice to slice off the thinner back sheet, have clear access to the interior for polishing, then replace the back sheet with 3/4". Gotta love the tippy toes helper


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## riggles17

chayos00 said:


> I got the 300g as cleaned up as I could. The majority of the salt crust it removed that I could get. I discovered that internal sump setup that Tenecor did the "Simplicity Plus" seemed to give the back glass some extra rigidity, as they cheaped out went with 1/2" vs 3/4" like the front pane. I'm going to sand smooth the area's that the 1/4" sheets were glued to the back of the tank and then I'm going to contact a local acrylic supplier to see if I can get 1/2" or 1" square rods of acrylic and glue them across the back to give the acrylic that needed bracing to enforce the back acrylic. I didn't remove it, but the person before did to get back that 4-6" of lost space from that internal sump, which from what I read was pointless as Tenecor used bioballs. I was thinking about drilling out the bulkhead holes as they are setup for 1" bulkheads (based on the ones from BRS) and either stepping them up to 1.25" or 1.5" and doing a dual intake to reduce an flow issues as well as doing a dual return back to the tank. I'm going to see what the biggest DC pump I can find will be to use, then I can always scale it up or down to get the needed flow. Figured if my 125 is good with 911gph on a Jebao DC-12000 @ speed 3 of 6, then a 300 ought to be good with 2100gph, so maybe more like 1500-2000gph. Eh... who knows, I'll see what I end up building with it and what the flow in the tank actually looks like.
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for it to fill....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> Kid comparison, 30" tall tank to a 2 year old. Just has to play in the water LOL
> 
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> 
> The soon to be removed former intank sump.
> 
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> 
> Left side shot showing acrylic condition.
> 
> 
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> Front showing acrylic condition, lots of light scratching making it hazy.
> 
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> Right side shot showing acrylic condition.


Everytime I come here, I feel more and more inadequate [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. Love what you're doing with that beast. The 2x4 stand will be more than strong enough. Not sure if you have access to any woodworking tools, but if you are concerned about strength (no need to be) you could square the lumber up a bit and use timber frame joints to put it together. 

I really want to bug you about the construction of the acrylic overflow at some point. I'm leaning towards acrylic instead of glass internal to glass external. You know how long I've been battling with this [emoji33]

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## chayos00

riggles17 said:


> Everytime I come here, I feel more and more inadequate [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. Love what you're doing with that beast. The 2x4 stand will be more than strong enough. Not sure if you have access to any woodworking tools, but if you are concerned about strength (no need to be) you could square the lumber up a bit and use timber frame joints to put it together.
> 
> I really want to bug you about the construction of the acrylic overflow at some point. I'm leaning towards acrylic instead of glass internal to glass external. You know how long I've been battling with this [emoji33]
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


I'm semi limited on what I've got for wood working tools. What I really wish I had was a table saw!! I've got a roybi 10" chop saw that my dad gifted to me when I started my aquarium stand build, a Craftsman circular saw, belt & orbital sander, a porter cable floor drill press, then regular drills too. So I'll probably just stick with the following stand build design idea, only thing different I'll do is ensure that no joints overlap, so like this picture has the side joints lined up, look at the picture I posted above of the QT rack/stand I have.

You can probably guess my vote on glass vs acrylic for the overflow. As long as you can get your hands on a table saw to cut the acrylic, that's my vote!

I'm trying to find some leveling feet to allow for an unlevel garage floor, without trying to shim the stand or trim individual feet to make it work. I did this on that 100g stand and it was a PITA to try to sand/trim/cut the individual feet. I found these on Amazon (see links below) and they seem to be like what I would like to find. Granted I'd rather have a better lip on the bottom, but if I do this across the whole stand then hopefully it would be enough to support it all. So I'm going to guess like 4 to 6 feet will be used going across the stand to support it all. So then either 8 or 12 leveling feet will be used in total. So assuming 300g (2500lbs water + 250lbs tank) and another 120g (1000lbs water + 150lbs tanks) from a possible 6 20g tanks, that puts me at total of just shy of 4000lbs overall weight. So 500lbs per foot for 8 feet and 333lbs for 12 feet. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MOHS92I/
Or 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GV7WFF6/


----------



## riggles17

chayos00 said:


> I'm semi limited on what I've got for wood working tools. What I really wish I had was a table saw!! I've got a roybi 10" chop saw that my dad gifted to me when I started my aquarium stand build, a Craftsman circular saw, belt & orbital sander, a porter cable floor drill press, then regular drills too. So I'll probably just stick with the following stand build design idea, only thing different I'll do is ensure that no joints overlap, so like this picture has the side joints lined up, look at the picture I posted above of the QT rack/stand I have.
> 
> 
> 
> You can probably guess my vote on glass vs acrylic for the overflow. As long as you can get your hands on a table saw to cut the acrylic, that's my vote!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to find some leveling feet to allow for an unlevel garage floor, without trying to shim the stand or trim individual feet to make it work. I did this on that 100g stand and it was a PITA to try to sand/trim/cut the individual feet. I found these on Amazon (see links below) and they seem to be like what I would like to find. Granted I'd rather have a better lip on the bottom, but if I do this across the whole stand then hopefully it would be enough to support it all. So I'm going to guess like 4 to 6 feet will be used going across the stand to support it all. So then either 8 or 12 leveling feet will be used in total. So assuming 300g (2500lbs water + 250lbs tank) and another 120g (1000lbs water + 150lbs tanks) from a possible 6 20g tanks, that puts me at total of just shy of 4000lbs overall weight. So 500lbs per foot for 8 feet and 333lbs for 12 feet.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MOHS92I/
> 
> Or
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GV7WFF6/


That's basically how I've built my stand. Basically the uprights underneath the corners are directly beneath the corners of the "tray"that represents the top and bottom of the stand. If I were to do wood again I would likely dovetail the corners and wedge said dovetails so that the stand could never pulling apart in a racking incident. The reality of stand building is the force is pressing down and really just on 2 of the edges. I saw a Swedish setup where the long edges didn't have any support under them. The racks only supported the ends. Blew me away, and not something I would like to test in my living room lol. 

My next stand will be metal, I was spoiled when I was younger with my parents owning a machine shop. Metal stands abound [emoji23]. I like your plan for the big dog though, I don't see a problem with that behemoth on that stand design!

In terms of glass vs acrylic, I know where you stand [emoji16] just a matter of me getting on board with the acrylic idea. I think I'm approaching it now which is why I'm going to bother you with very specific acrylic questions about your build in the near future. Health issues and school have stalled me with half of the parts collected, the acrylic waiting to be touched by an alchemist and ending up as a sump (I need to get some black for the overflow box), and time being 0. 

Thanks for all of the responses pal. Loving watching the progress as you know

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## chayos00

After the local fish meeting I decided to clear out one of my 20g qt/breeder tanks and collected all of the big enough panda Cory babies and consolidated them to one tank. Total of 22 babies that were big enough to move over! My army of pandas is growing! This picture is just the first batch I collected.









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## Phil Edwards

Congratulations on the breeding!


----------



## chayos00

So I was going to upload some pictures I took today, but for some dang reason my stupid Flickr account won't log in for me. Seems they updated something about it being tied to a Yahoo account and now I can't even get it to switch and login for me.... Argh.... POS!


----------



## chayos00

Since I still can't use Flickr, got a help request in with them. But here's some phone pictures of the tank I took on Friday. Can't get any fish pictures since they are small and move quickly























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----------



## Charliethetuna

Amazing tank .


----------



## Greggz

Good to see an update and pics.

Tank has a very good vibe, and everything looks great.

Nice work!


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Good to see an update and pics.
> 
> 
> 
> Tank has a very good vibe, and everything looks great.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice work!


Thanks Greggz! However I have debated the idea of getting the whole thing and trying something different, more of like yours where it has lots of different stems. However I've noticed in the tank currently stems have been a pain, as I would see good top growth, but the lower leaves die off. Plus it seems with the wood in there anything shadowed does this same loss of lower leaves. A few of the mermaid weed in the back right have done this. I don't know though... I probably will wait till my 300g is up in the garage first so I can have a place to store my current hardscape and not kill it. 

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----------



## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Thanks Greggz! However I have debated the idea of getting the whole thing and trying something different, more of like yours where it has lots of different stems. However I've noticed in the tank currently stems have been a pain, as I would see good top growth, but the lower leaves die off. Plus it seems with the wood in there anything shadowed does this same loss of lower leaves. A few of the mermaid weed in the back right have done this. I don't know though... I probably will wait till my 300g is up in the garage first so I can have a place to store my current hardscape and not kill it.


Right now you have a good amount of lower light plants and a few stems. They have different needs. Personally I found it difficult to keep both happy. 

I started with a mix, and one by one every sword, crypt, fern, etc was replaced by stems.

Just saying if you go that route, your stems will likely do better when you tailor everything for them.

But be careful what you wish for..........stems grow fast and lots of trimming/pruning is required, so it is not for everyone.


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Right now you have a good amount of lower light plants and a few stems. They have different needs. Personally I found it difficult to keep both happy.
> 
> 
> 
> I started with a mix, and one by one every sword, crypt, fern, etc was replaced by stems.
> 
> 
> 
> Just saying if you go that route, your stems will likely do better when you tailor everything for them.
> 
> 
> 
> But be careful what you wish for..........stems grow fast and lots of trimming/pruning is required, so it is not for everyone.


Yeah that does make sense about the stems vs the LL plants. I do like the fact that I only need to trim about once a month or two. Maybe I'll just go with doing a rescape but sticking to LL plants like adding some crypts again and maybe just getting rid of the rocks and hardscape except my big tree one on the right side. 

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## chayos00

These frogs in my 10g desktop tank are getting freaky! LOL









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## chayos00

No pictures today, the tank is looking kind of funky, but the lights are also off for the midday siesta. I had run out of KNO3 the week before a work travel trip and didn't get the chance/forgot to order new ferts to get my updated lower K dosing finally going. After seeing what @Greggz had to say about my initial ideas, I've tweaked my dosing to using the following products. I've decided to dose all of these into my RO tank, as now that there is a mix of things for the dKH and dGH as well as ferts mixed in, figured it would just be easier! 

Potassium Carbonate - K2CO3 for (dKH)
Calcium Sulfate- CASO4.2H2O for (Ca as dGH)
Magnesium Sulfate - MGSO4.7H2O for (Mg as dGH)
Calcium Nitrate - Ca(NO3)2 for (Ca, NO3, & dGH)
Magnesium Nitrate - Mg(NO3)2.6H20 for (Mg, NO3, & dGH)
Mono Potassium Phosphate - KH2PO4 for (PO4)
Potassium Sulfate - K2SO4 for (K)

Potassium Carbonate	- 0.75 dKH
Calcium Sulfate	- 11.76 Ca
Magnesium Sulfate - 5.04 Mg
Calcium Nitrate - 10 NO3
Magnesium Nitrate - 10 NO3
Mono Potassium Phosphate	- 8 PO4
Potassium Sulfate - 6.26 K

As some are getting a mix from others, it's not as obvious why I'm dosing what I'm dosing, so here are the totals of it all. I dropped my dKH levels down from 1 to 0.75 to see how things respond to this change. 

dKH	0.75
K	20
Ca	15.00000001
dGH	3.713875857
Mg	7
NO3	20
PO4	8

P	2.609027081
CO3	8.018845053
S	18.63076341
N	4.518183378

So with about 2 weeks of no water changes including no Macro dosing as I was out of NO3, I had a BUNCH of BBA pop up as well as staghorn algae pop it's ugly little head up again. I finally got to my overdue water change last night 9/8 and hosed the tank in H2O2 and Glut mix. I went through the tank again today and did a direct inject of Glut and H2O2 on non pinkish BBA, it's gotta go!! 

So I also ordered a few tissue culture plants from GreenLeafAquariums while I was at it. I was shocked at how TINY the Buce came! LOL Gotta make some space in the tank now for these new plants. I'll get some before and after pictures of this.

EUSTRALIS STELLATA (POGOSTEMON STELLATA)
BUCEPHALANDRA KEDAGANG JAPAN (Bucephalandra 'Kedagang Red' aka Godzilla)
CRYPTOCORYNE PETCHII (Cryptocoryne beckettii 'Petchii')
HOMALOMENA SEKADAU SOUTH 
LAGENANDRA MEEBOLDII RED ROUND
PIPTOSPATHA RIDLEYI


----------



## RollaPrime

@chayos00

Your bleeding heart tetras look spectacular. They've become somewhat of a rarity here in the UK. I'm not exactly sure why that is but even the online prices have sky rocketed. Oh and if you ever consider selling that anubias log please keep me in mind!


----------



## chayos00

RollaPrime said:


> @chayos00
> 
> 
> 
> Your bleeding heart tetras look spectacular. They've become somewhat of a rarity here in the UK. I'm not exactly sure why that is but even the online prices have sky rocketed. Oh and if you ever consider selling that anubias log please keep me in mind!


Thanks! I was shocked to see them at the local big box pet store and grabbed every one they had and haven't seen them since. I was actually debating about using them as my show fish for next months fish club "bowl show" where everyone brings one fish and or invertebrate to vote for who's best of show. LOL 

I trimmed off a TON from that Anubis log a few months back and it seems that it's filling right back in again pretty fast. If I rescape and take that long out it will end up in my 300g that I'm gonna keep out in my garage. 

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## RollaPrime

chayos00 said:


> Thanks! I was shocked to see them at the local big box pet store and grabbed every one they had and haven't seen them since. I was actually debating about using them as my show fish for next months fish club "bowl show" where everyone brings one fish and or invertebrate to vote for who's best of show. LOL
> 
> I trimmed off a TON from that Anubis log a few months back and it seems that it's filling right back in again pretty fast. If I rescape and take that long out it will end up in my 300g that I'm gonna keep out in my garage.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


The only place I can find them is UK ebay but at prices that would make your eyes water. At current exchange rates it's $7.72 per tetra or $86.46 for 10












So ultra rare here. Glad to see them "in the wild" so to speak.


----------



## chayos00

RollaPrime said:


> The only place I can find them is UK ebay but at prices that would make your eyes water. At current exchange rates it's $7.72 per tetra or $86.46 for 10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So ultra rare here. Glad to see them "in the wild" so to speak.


Wow, sure wasn't that much per fish! I want to say when I found them they were like $3-4 per fish or something like that. I can find them through LiveAquaria.com for $4.99, but haven't had great luck with fish from there.

Bump: So seems I probably used WAY too much H2O2 and Glut to kill algae, my water is cloudy today....


----------



## chayos00

So as I thought, I've got an ammonia spike, tested at 0.25ppm. Would explain the white cloudiness in the tank today. Either from hosing out the poret foam as I normally do every month or so, or just too much Glut H2O2.


----------



## RollaPrime

Are you using the API test kit? Obviously you've learned to tell the biology of your aquarium by eye but even with that said I find the API ammonia test kit really frustrating in terms of the 0-0.25ppm reading.

To make sure I'm getting the right result I usually test the API ammonia as well as the Nitirite test. Curiously, I've found that 0.25ppm of ammonia never has a corresponding rise in nitrite? So I bought a second liquid ammonia test by "waterlife." I've found that 0.25ppm on API is always a 0ppm reading with waterlife. In short, I think the API color indicator can be misleading. That or darkish yellow to light green depends on the spectrum of light you're using at any given time.


----------



## chayos00

RollaPrime said:


> Are you using the API test kit? Obviously you've learned to tell the biology of your aquarium by eye but even with that said I find the API ammonia test kit really frustrating in terms of the 0-0.25ppm reading.
> 
> To make sure I'm getting the right result I usually test the API ammonia as well as the Nitirite test. Curiously, I've found that 0.25ppm of ammonia never has a corresponding rise in nitrite? So I bought a second liquid ammonia test by "waterlife." I've found that 0.25ppm on API is always a 0ppm reading with waterlife. In short, I think the API color indicator can be misleading. That or darkish yellow to light green depends on the spectrum of light you're using at any given time.


Yeah still using API for A, N, & N. Normally Ammonia reads correctly for me. I checked and again today it's still 0.25-.5, but leaning more towards 0.25. I checked in a few different light sources and they all read at least 0.25. Good news is the white cloudiness has cleared up! I'll check out the waterlife test kit you mention though. However after looking for just a minute, seems these are only sold in the UK.


----------



## RollaPrime

chayos00 said:


> Yeah still using API for A, N, & N. Normally Ammonia reads correctly for me. I checked and again today it's still 0.25-.5, but leaning more towards 0.25. I checked in a few different light sources and they all read at least 0.25. Good news is the white cloudiness has cleared up! I'll check out the waterlife test kit you mention though. However after looking for just a minute, seems these are only sold in the UK.



I thought they were a global brand? I'd still seek out a second opinion specifically for the API ammonia. I've spent way too much time trying to discern the difference between 0ppm - 0.25ppm.


Good to hear the cloudiness is gone. We all know how off putting a sudden bloom can be.


----------



## chayos00

Did some tweaking/cleanup of the tank tonight. Took my S. Repens and put a Tupperware containers worth in the sump and left a small patch in the tank. I've got two gallon sized bags full of it, I feel guilty chucking something like that.... Moved the sword on the far right side and put it in the far back left now and just one regular sword back with it. Did a big hacking of the mermaid weed as that just grew like a beast! I added the new tissue culture plants in small round Tupperware containers to see if they grow. There's one TC plant that I'm not even sure if it will survive as sitting in the cup for two days it has melted on me, eusteralis stellata. The others are doing okay and I put most in this tank and a few pieces of each in my desktop 10g tank (no feet and no CO2). Gotta get tank looking pretty again for the local club home show contest this year. 

Before









After (yeah there's a few swords floating)









S. Repens


----------



## sudhirr

This is one massive but very beautiful tank.


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## RollaPrime

Even with the swords floating your tank looks fantastic.


----------



## chayos00

sudhirr said:


> This is one massive but very beautiful tank.


Thank you very much!



RollaPrime said:


> Even with the swords floating your tank looks fantastic.


Thanks! I'm debating about what to do with them, I've got a tank I don't talk about out in my garage that I may drop them into. I always feel bad trashing perfectly good plants!


----------



## chayos00

So trying something new to premix my dry ferts that I dropping in my RO tank. Since my son (2.5yrs) got into my stand and got water all over somehow my obviously poorly sealed cheap ziplock bags didn't keep the moisture out and the ferts clumped. So dropped them into my nutribullet and mixed them all up. Doesn't seem I need to run my big pump to mix my water as much now! Score! 

Also the power head only seems to be doing pretty well to mix up the RO mixture before a water change. Bonus only 7w of running power.
















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## chayos00

So I've had some recent issues with getting my pH meter to calibrate, keeps saying the incorrect fluid is being used. I've followed all online troubleshooting options and the ONE last possible thing to try is soaking the pen in the 3M KCL fluid as some found an overnight soak got it working correctly again. However if that doesn't work then time for a new meter.


----------



## Greggz

chayos00 said:


>


I love it.

But if my wife saw me doing that.......new one would be on the way and that one would be committed to fert duty ONLY!


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> I love it.
> 
> But if my wife saw me doing that.......new one would be on the way and that one would be committed to fert duty ONLY!


After my wife just saw me rinse and put it up to dry...

Wife: umm you okay with just drinking poison?! 
Me: the fish are just fine in it and I rinsed it. 
Wife: you aren't a fish! 

HAHAHA needless to say I then put a shot of Dawn in it and then some water and ran it as a blender to clean it.


----------



## KayakJimW

haha, pretty slick. If you just call the ferts "*Nutri*ents" (ie. Micro- Macro-) then isn't that it's intended purpose? That'd be my argument anyways...


----------



## chayos00

KayakJimW said:


> haha, pretty slick. If you just call the ferts "*Nutri*ents" (ie. Micro- Macro-) then isn't that it's intended purpose? That'd be my argument anyways...


Good point, those aren't poison they are nutrients! Saved for future reference! 

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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Wife: umm you okay with just drinking poison?!
> Me: the fish are just fine in it and I rinsed it.
> Wife: you aren't a fish!


Thanks for the good LOL!

Sounds exactly like many conversations at my home over the years.

Here's a tip. Do these things secretly!:wink2: (just kidding honey if you read this!).


----------



## chayos00

Well, I tested out the ph meter after sitting in it's storage solution to see if that would revive the ph probe. Well, I tried to test the 7.0ph solution and I still get the Er1 when trying to calibrate the meter. I've done a full reset on the gauge. This is all with brand new 7.0 and 4.0 solutions. I'm just going to let the probe sit for days in this storage solution to see if that does any difference too. Well, seems that I'm gonna have to buy another ph gauge. I thought about an upgraded model that lets you replace the probe, the Apera PH60 however it is $80. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q277D46 The replacement probe is $33. Since this is all for testing CO2 levels, what are your guys/gals thoughts? Something better out there? I know there is but what LOL Some of you guys run PH controllers for this purpose too. Any not too expensive recommendations, money is a bit tight at the moment?


----------



## KayakJimW

I just go cheap and replace every few years or whenever it decides to stop working

From what I've seen on forums, even the expensive ones are known to crap out after a few years


----------



## chayos00

KayakJimW said:


> I just go cheap and replace every few years or whenever it decides to stop working
> 
> From what I've seen on forums, even the expensive ones are known to crap out after a few years


That last ph pen that I had before this one was like what you have. It took like 5-10 minutes for the meter to stabilize on a reading. Even though I calibrate my pen before any use, the cheap one was always way off too. Not sure I want to go that cheap again. LOL


----------



## Greggz

My American Pinpoint Marine has been very reliable. I have the controller, but they have just the meter as well.

My probe is about 4 years old, and still calibrates perfectly. I only calibrate about once every six weeks, and it's always off less than 0.05. 

Now I do keep it in the tank at all times, so it never dries out. 

Had several of the cheap ones years ago and they never lasted long and lost calibration all the time.


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> My American Pinpoint Marine has been very reliable. I have the controller, but they have just the meter as well.
> 
> My probe is about 4 years old, and still calibrates perfectly. I only calibrate about once every six weeks, and it's always off less than 0.05.
> 
> Now I do keep it in the tank at all times, so it never dries out.
> 
> Had several of the cheap ones years ago and they never lasted long and lost calibration all the time.


I assume this is the controller you have? 

https://www.marinedepot.com/american-marine-pinpoint-ph-controller


----------



## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> I assume this is the controller you have?
> 
> https://www.marinedepot.com/american-marine-pinpoint-ph-controller


Yep that's the one. But remember it's a controller too. The monitor is less.

And if you go with the controller shop around, you should be able to find it for less.


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Yep that's the one. But remember it's a controller too. The monitor is less.
> 
> 
> 
> And if you go with the controller shop around, you should be able to find it for less.


Yeah I found it for about $195 on Amazon and about $95 for the meter. Makes me wonder if a controller would just be better overall with CO2. Do you use your controller to check your degassed pH readings too? 

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----------



## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Yeah I found it for about $195 on Amazon and about $95 for the meter. Makes me wonder if a controller would just be better overall with CO2. Do you use your controller to check your degassed pH readings too?


Personally I would not be without a controller. It makes keeping CO2 consistent and fine tuning it a breeze.

And yes, I also use it to test degassed level.


----------



## Ken Keating1

I have the American Marine meter and like it, easy to use and calibrate. It makes it very nice to look at the meter at any time and see what the pH is. I was just too cheap to purchase the controller.


----------



## Grobbins48

I have the Milwaukee controller, which has worked great for me. It calibrates well, however only to the tenth, not the hundredth like the pinpoint one. My trigger points are set to a min level, and once that is hit it turns off the CO2 until it gets to 0.2 pH above your min set. Never had an issue with the .2 swing. 

It's a bit cheaper in price if that is important to you.


----------



## fftfk

Grobbins48 said:


> I have the Milwaukee controller, which has worked great for me. It calibrates well, however only to the tenth, not the hundredth like the pinpoint one. My trigger points are set to a min level, and once that is hit it turns off the CO2 until it gets to 0.2 pH above your min set. Never had an issue with the .2 swing.
> 
> It's a bit cheaper in price if that is important to you.




What is ph is your trigger set at?


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## Grobbins48

Degassed pH is 8.0, trigger off at 6.4, back on at 6.6. KH is 6ish with inert substrate of BDBS and nothing else in the tank that would alter water parameters.


----------



## chayos00

Okay, I placed the order for the Pinpoint controller, should be here tomorrow. Thank you work gift cards for the "free" aquarium parts! LOL


----------



## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> Okay, I placed the order for the Pinpoint controller, should be here tomorrow. Thank you work gift cards for the "free" aquarium parts! LOL


Nice! Let me know if you need any help figuring out the programming.


----------



## chayos00

Greggz said:


> Nice! Let me know if you need any help figuring out the programming.


Thanks! Hopefully it's not too complicated! I'll just have to get my off gassed reading first. LOL I'll have to figure out a few things it seems now. Probe placement, CO2 flow rate vs how often the solenoid cycles to control the CO2 reading, etc. Or I could be thinking too much about it. Hahaha we shall see. 

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## chayos00

Once I got the ph controller setup, things seemed to test out well. The 0.75dkh water tested at 7.14ph which was around 1.6ppm for CO2, which was a bit lower than I expected. 30ppm CO2 for 0.75dkh should be at 5.88ph, which is where I set the midpoint for the controller to. I turns the CO2 flow back on at 0.1 higher than the set point. I'm noticing my system turning off the CO2 for a bit and then turns back on about 30 minutes later when that set point to turn back on goes past the threshold. I'm hoping this might cut back on some of my CO2 use with it cutting off for a few times during the day.


----------



## chayos00

I need to get some pictures for our club home show, so I should get a FTS soon. The pictures are due on Tuesday. But I was out in my garage feeding my QT/breeding tanks and figured a few pictures are due for it. 

The one tank is coated in what started out as big bushy BBA and has become a string algae. With Maryland Guppy and his algae issue, figured I wanted to give API AlgaeFix a shot and see what it does. Just gave it the first of three 2ml doses to see what it does.

Sorry for the glare, the led shop light is right above the tanks. 

Algae Fix tank










View of the inside from a clearer spot on the glass. LOL









Guppy tank, random kinds but they are reproducing.









Hard to see blue shrimp tank, which aren't breeding. But that is one large chunk of Needle leaf Java Fern in a 20g taking up all the space 









Panda Cory breeding tank and cherry shrimp, which are breeding like crazy. The pandas not so much, but I think now that the water temps are out of the 80's they might go to town again. 









Close up of the cherry shrimp babies.


----------



## Streetwise

Very nice. Keep it boring, and they will keep breeding!


----------



## chayos00

Did a TON of cleaning up of my tank and got a picture. I've got a few ziploc bags full of plants for the local meeting this weekend. Got two gallon sized bags filled of needle leaf java and regular java fern. I've also decided to cut off a large chunk of that big anubias in the middle of the tank. 

FTS - Day 979 - 11/15/2019
20191105


----------



## chayos00

Just realized, I always forget to do before shots. LOL But guess that tends to happen since I clean the glass after doing trimming/cleaning up.


----------



## chayos00

Took a video of the tank today, sometimes more details are seen when you can get up close! Let me know if you like videos. I can keep it up if yall do like them.


----------



## Greggz

Love the video.

Adds another dimension with the movement of the fish and close up looks.

Well done.

Reminds me I am long overdue for one myself.


----------



## chayos00

chayos00 said:


> Did a TON of cleaning up of my tank and got a picture. I've got a few ziploc bags full of plants for the local meeting this weekend. Got two gallon sized bags filled of needle leaf java and regular java fern. I've also decided to cut off a large chunk of that big anubias in the middle of the tank.
> 
> FTS - Day 979 - 11/15/2019
> 20191105


So I won my category FW greater than 30g first and then I won best of show again! Two years in a row!!! Woot Woot!! Very happy about it. However I've got word that a few folks are coming for me next year to beat me. Maybe I should hurry up and get this 300g setup so I can move over my Anubis log over so I don't loose it, and then rescape the 125g. 

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## chayos00

So yesterday I went up to Phoenix for our puppy to have his follow-up apt with the vet there for his ear cropping. But while in Phoenix I visited three different aquarium stores. Kona Reef then Ocean Floor (HUGE store) and finally The Pet Shop. Yes, I did buy from each place..... Eekkkkk.... 

45 Cardinals, 20 pygmy cories, 15 green fire neons, 6 pencil fish of one species, 15 pencil fish of another, 8 sterbai cories, 11 amanos shrimp, and these neat looking floating Fern plants, and two different hygrophilia species plants. Got them all in quarantine now. Except the amanos and the 6 pencil fish did get plopped in the 125g and are still looking good so far. 

Can anyone tell what the floating plant is, seems to be a type of salvinia the best I can find on google, was told it is a floating Fern. 

Nannostomus marginatus (Dwarf Pencilfish)









Hygrophila Scarlet 









Hygrophila Temple









Sterbi Cories









Golden Pencilfish(Nannostomus beckfordi)









Green Fire Neon Tetra









Cardinals









Pygmy cories









Floating Fern, best I can find is it appears to be a salvinia something, store doesn't know for sure either.


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## Grobbins48

Wow, lots of of good stuff here! Congrats on the award, pretty amazing!

What a nice load of fish. I wanted to stop out to the huge store in Phoenix when I was in the area a month ago, but I never made it. Looks like you had a good time though!

20 of those pygmy corys should be great! One word of warning that I am learning- they are delicate. I had 9 of them in my blackwater tank, they are amazing. Down to 6or 7 now. I think the apistos chase them off an nip at them, and the wounds have taken a toll. Hopefully all 20 work out, they school super tight in my tank, pretty cool!


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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> Wow, lots of of good stuff here! Congrats on the award, pretty amazing!
> 
> What a nice load of fish. I wanted to stop out to the huge store in Phoenix when I was in the area a month ago, but I never made it. Looks like you had a good time though!
> 
> 20 of those pygmy corys should be great! One word of warning that I am learning- they are delicate. I had 9 of them in my blackwater tank, they are amazing. Down to 6or 7 now. I think the apistos chase them off an nip at them, and the wounds have taken a toll. Hopefully all 20 work out, they school super tight in my tank, pretty cool!


Was it the Ocean Floor store, it was the one Joey (DIY King) went through this summer as well as it was a hockey/skating rink long ago, it's HUGE! Wish I would of picked up a dozen giant Oto's when I first went through back in August.... 

Thanks! 

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## chayos00

Finally getting back to sanding this 300g tank. Time to be a fish and cram my butt in the tank again for a few hours. 300g 8L x 2w x 30"T










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## Maryland Guppy

I would be thrilled with that tank if it were only 18" tall! >


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## chayos00

Maryland Guppy said:


> I would be thrilled with that tank if it were only 18" tall! >


LOL This isn't going to end up a high tech tank. So I have no worries about the depth. Actually I'm thinking of an island scape on the side or middle and sand all around. So it won't need much "swimming" in the tank. 

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## Grobbins48

3 tall!?! Wow... that is massive... 

What are you thinking of putting in it?


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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> 3 tall!?! Wow... that is massive...
> 
> What are you thinking of putting in it?


Correction Its 30" tall not 36". LOL Had to double check. 

But I thought about taking my cories that were breeding and putting them in this tank to raise an army of them. Plus some shrimp too. 

But as of right now I have some other fish I'm gonna need to put in there that are already in my garage in a 100g tank. 

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## Maryland Guppy

chayos00 said:


> Correction Its 30" tall not 36". LOL Had to double check.


In this case I'd cut it down and make 1 20" tall tank and go hi-tech.
If it was a bit taller you could make two tanks! :grin2::grin2::grin2:

30" tall, stepladder, wet armpits drooling into one's pants, towels on the floor etc... :|:|:|


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## chayos00

Maryland Guppy said:


> In this case I'd cut it down and make 1 20" tall tank and go hi-tech.
> 
> If it was a bit taller you could make two tanks! :grin2::grin2::grin2:
> 
> 
> 
> 30" tall, stepladder, wet armpits drooling into one's pants, towels on the floor etc... :|:|:|


The tank isn't a pretty one as it had an in tank sump that was partially cut out so there's some remnants still on the back wall. Also I don't have space in my den for an 8' tank. But I can fit it in my garage! LOL Plus I don't want to build another three year long pretty stand for this tank. Hahaha 

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## chayos00

Got the whole inside now sanded to 3000 grit sand paper. Now time to use the novus to the inside and see how well I sanded the tank! Then once that's done I'll work on building the stand. Once up on the stand I'll polish the outside.


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## Freemananana

I like island scapes, but it means you'll need some real big fish to fill it out!


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## chayos00

Good thing it's water change day!! Went to open up the overflow valve all the way as I turn up tank flow to stir up the poo in hopes it gets to the sump. Seems one of the three spots the overflow is drilled is having a dribble. 

Not the update I was gonna post.... Ugh
















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## chayos00

chayos00 said:


> Good thing it's water change day!! Went to open up the overflow valve all the way as I turn up tank flow to stir up the poo in hopes it gets to the sump. Seems one of the three spots the overflow is drilled is having a dribble.
> 
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Well, tightening up the bulkheads on the tank overflow seemed to have resolved the dribble. Pretty sure this is at least the second time tightening things up for a leak. 

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## Grobbins48

Good to see you corrected the problem. Now looking forward to seeing how everything else is going!


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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> Good to see you corrected the problem. Now looking forward to seeing how everything else is going!


I took some before shots of the overgrowth, thinking I'm gonna try to trim some today, as it's getting to be a bit full LOL

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## chayos00

Finally an update! Here's a before and after pics of my major hack job. I've got like a 1g bucket worth of Anubias petite, who wants some? LOL

Before









After









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## chayos00

So I found a local salty store that is going to also carry FW fish and plants, so after the club meeting this weekend our el presidente told me about the plans and as he knew I grow a ton of plants that I end up chuckin.... I'm going to clean up all the anubias and hook these guys up with lots of it and start their plant business. Just wish I knew about it before chucking a bunch of stuff the other day....


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## chayos00

It would seem since running the ph controller, I've stepped down my flow of CO2 into the tank, as the controller was cycling off numerous times a day. I went from about 80cc/min down to about 40-50cc/min. Curious to see how long this CO2 tank will last, just wish I documented when I swapped it out! LOL


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## Blue Ridge Reef

Glad you found homes for your overgrowth. Just an FYI, you can sell cheap or ROAK nearly any plant other than duckweed on this forum rather than compost it should it ever come tot that. I've sent out more Val and guppy grass than I would have ever thought possible in 2020. Feels much better helping out other hobbyists than tossing healthy plants in the yard!


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## chayos00

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Glad you found homes for your overgrowth. Just an FYI, you can sell cheap or ROAK nearly any plant other than duckweed on this forum rather than compost it should it ever come to that. I've sent out more Val and guppy grass than I would have ever thought possible in 2020. Feels much better helping out other hobbyists than tossing healthy plants in the yard!


I've debated about trying to figure out the shipping game and make a few bucks going that route. Figured I'd give that a shot after the freezing season is over. I know @Grobbins48 is waiting for some anubias if he hasn't sourced some when it warms up out.


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## Grobbins48

chayos00 said:


> It would seem since running the ph controller, I've stepped down my flow of CO2 into the tank, as the controller was cycling off numerous times a day. I went from about 80cc/min down to about 40-50cc/min. Curious to see how long this CO2 tank will last, just wish I documented when I swapped it out! LOL


You can always do what I do and look through your credit card transactions and see when you got it filled/ swapped out!


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## chayos00

Grobbins48 said:


> You can always do what I do and look through your credit card transactions and see when you got it filled/ swapped out!


I thought about that, but as I have two tanks, I don't swap them out the day I get a fresh tank. I keep a spare because the place I swap at closes at 4pm and I get off work at 4pm, so I figure out when I can swap shifts with someone so I can go do the tank swap.


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## chayos00

So I'm a bit of a forgetful idiot.... Two weeks in a 5g bucket with a lid turned out to be a rotten smell and a funky white film on the water. I rinsed out the plants a few times under faucet in the tub. But we shall see if they recover in QT. 










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## Maryland Guppy

chayos00 said:


> So I'm a bit of a forgetful idiot.... Two weeks in a 5g bucket with a lid turned out to be a rotten smell and a funky white film on the water.


You are not alone with the bucket of plants I'll get to later trick.


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## Quint

chayos00 said:


> Finally an update! Here's a before and after pics of my major hack job. I've got like a 1g bucket worth of Anubias petite, who wants some? LOL
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I know ya gotta make room for plants to grow and all but that first pic tank looks great IMHO. I would have a hard time tearing into it until it was too late lol.


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## Crazygar

Been reading along for awhile now, I was younger when I first started. Awesome journey, looking forward to watching the tank grow back out and your 300GAL project.

This isn't helping my MTS..

Gary


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## chayos00

Quint said:


> I know ya gotta make room for plants to grow and all but that first pic tank looks great IMHO. I would have a hard time tearing into it until it was too late lol.


Yeah, it was getting to the point with all that mass the fish seemed to be hiding a bit more, so figured more space might bring them out again and it has. Plus the plants were shading a bit too much of the lower level plants. I've had zero growth on my Blyxa Japonica plants in quite some time.

Bump:


Crazygar said:


> Been reading along for awhile now, I was younger when I first started. Awesome journey, looking forward to watching the tank grow back out and your 300GAL project.
> 
> This isn't helping my MTS..
> 
> Gary


Thanks Gary! Yeah I need to get working on that 300g, has sit there since my last update about it LOL


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## Crazygar

Do small setup things with the 300 while concentrating on your layout on the 125. It's possible to do both, just give the one currently running more of your attention.

Have never been a fan of Acrylic Tanks, you have a lot of work ahead of you buffing that bad boy out. Though once completed, it holds loads of promise as to what you can eventually do with it.

Gary


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## chayos00

Crazygar said:


> Do small setup things with the 300 while concentrating on your layout on the 125. It's possible to do both, just give the one currently running more of your attention.
> 
> 
> 
> Have never been a fan of Acrylic Tanks, you have a lot of work ahead of you buffing that bad boy out. Though once completed, it holds loads of promise as to what you can eventually do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


Oh man I haven't hardly had time for the 125g too. LOL Only thing that gets done regularly is my weekly water change. I'm sure the fish hate me too, haven't been consistent at feeding them too. This 3 and 4.5 year old running around causing chaos is taking my time. Plus my wife is a nurse and works random nights so it's daddy time lots of times when I'm wanting to work on stuff. Then there's other maintenance/projects that take priority over the fish..... Ugh.... If only I had more time for fun stuff!! 

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## Crazygar

Time can be at a premium when you have family. 

I would say concentrate on the 125GAL since it's established and currently running. 

If they are old enough and show interest involve the kid(s). I did this with mine, they have fond memories of fish eating out of their hand and helping with other aquarium related chores. I made it a game.

Getting them involved also breeds future Aquarists.

I would attempt setting aside an hour or two on a specific day (mine is Sunday at 1pm) and using that to clean and change the water. 

Feeding can be done at any time and I do not feed my fish daily either. Once every other day is my routine. During the lean days of no feeding, the fish/shrimp/snails will graze and look for things to eat. Helping with keeping things tidy.

Gary


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## chayos00

So I decided to take the rocks out of the front of the tank as they were coated in moss. Also vacuumed the heck out of that area too. Doing this really makes me want to rescape the tank, but need to get that 300g up and running to keep the low light plants a place to live. 

The area rocks are removed is about 6" deep and doesn't really work with how it looks right now. Guess I'll have to nuke this moss from those rocks and put them back for now. 










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## Crazygar

That was such a wonderful tank. It will spring back but I really enjoyed the look. I wll agree with you though, I am not a fan of moss. Seems to invade everything if you don't meticulously keep it in check.

Barring a low yield nuke, you'll be picking that stuff out of your tank for a long time to come.

Looking forward to seeing this grow out again.

Gary


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## chayos00

It's been some time since I've posted here, some things happened at the end of March 2020 where I almost broke down my whole tank as I just didn't want to deal with it for what went down in life. My buddy who was the president of our local fish club talked me into not tearing it down and saying screw it and just ignore it for now vs taking it down. So I just kept up with water changes and was a bad fish daddy and hardly fed my fish but once a week if I remembered. I'm still bad about feeding them even though I'm in the same room daily for working. 

Plants were uber overgrown for a while, but the fish club had the annual home show (via pictures) where I finally did trim things up, but never submitted the tank for it as I just felt it looked like crap. Things still aren't up to par for me, but trying to work my way back into caring about the tank. I avoided the forums for a while too so I never really saw all the updates I had wanted to see and now it seems daunting to even think of going back and catching up. 

The pictures I'm putting on here are from that, I believe October time frame when I trimmed last. I'll get some more when I get a chance of current status, but I'm typing this up while waiting at my Dr's visiting from a follow-up procedure I had done the Monday before Christmas.


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## chayos00

Tank picture, dr came in and got sidetracked. LOL

Pre trim Oct 2020









Post trim 









Crazy out of tank growth, I don't even recall which plant this was. 









Oh, is that a project in the works?!?!

















What could this be?! Part of my 2020 summer distraction! Current view as of today. 









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## ReeferRusso

chayos00 said:


> Tank picture, dr came in and got sidetracked. LOL
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Some major trimming there! Wondering how things have progressed since October. Oh, what lights are you running? 

That looks like a nice, fun and exciting new project in the backyard! Also wondering if the owner of that Tonka truck is interested in what's going on. 



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## Quagulator

Major jealous of that project you've got going on! 

I'm sorry to hear about your challenges, I'm happy to see you back and I'm glad your buddy talked you in to keeping the tank running.

Looking forward to more updates!


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## monkeyruler90

I think everyone goes through a little bit of neglect on their tank once in a while

glad to see you're back and interested on that side project.


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## Greggz

Tank is looking good all trimmed up.

Just goes to show that if you want to you can whip a tank back into shape.

Let's here more about the project? You can't drop pic bombs like that and leave us hanging!:grin2:


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## chayos00

Thanks guys! The encouragement is a welcome aspect!! The massive hole isn't a pond.... I know right! But will sure love the hell out of having a pool built in our tiny yard! LOL Been a dream of my wife's to have her own pool and living in Arizona, it's kind of a must in the summer!! Here's the drawing from the designer. 

But those IBC totes are going to be for fishies though! I've got something in the garage I want to move outside and free up that 100g tank I have out there. Plus that would give me the freedom to finally finish up that 300g tank and get it setup out there. Was thinking a river setup and maybe even a terrarium with some air breathing creatures for it. 

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## chayos00

Everything is currently "buried" in dirt right now, so can't really get things placed till the pool plumbing is done. However depending how soon it gets hot may slow that progress down. LOL









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## chayos00

ReeferRusso said:


> Some major trimming there! Wondering how things have progressed since October. Oh, what lights are you running?
> 
> That looks like a nice, fun and exciting new project in the backyard! Also wondering if the owner of that Tonka truck is interested in what's going on.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro


The lights are a DIY LED setup I built just after I got the tank running a while back. 

Let me find the link and share it. 
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...uccess-includes-par-data.html#/topics/1111450


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## ReeferRusso

chayos00 said:


> The lights are a DIY LED setup I built just after I got the tank running a while back.
> 
> Let me find the link and share it.
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...uccess-includes-par-data.html#/topics/1111450
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


I had a strong feeling that you were running DIY LEDs. Especially since the array you're running looks non-standard for anything planted. 

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## chayos00

Alright, to get back into things I'm needing a bit of help and figured I'd share what I got to check and see what others think about my current dosing routine, which hasn't changed in about a year. I've battled some algae when I've been dosing micros which I slacked on for at least 3 months last year in my lack of interest on the tank. Most of my algae which is normally green spot algae, some blue green algae, and last time A ton of hair algae coated about everything, which is why my plants are currently in a nuked recovery state from the Glut and H2O2 spraying from the last few water changes. I'll have to watch my plants as they recover to see how new growth is doing as far as reading the plants.

I'm due for mixing up some fresh Macro's in baggies for my RO mix, but figured I'd check with the pro's to see what they think so far. I'm going to hunt through some folks posts to see what I can find for current dosing to see where the current trend is going.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may give.

So far from the little testing I've been able to get done:
Nitrate - 20ppm
Phosphate - 1-2ppm

Going to calibrate my pH meter/co2 doser this week too, just to make sure my CO2 levels are accurate, haven't checked it in about a year LOL


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## ReeferRusso

chayos00 said:


> Alright, to get back into things I'm needing a bit of help and figured I'd share what I got to check and see what others think about my current dosing routine, which hasn't changed in about a year. I've battled some algae when I've been dosing micros which I slacked on for at least 3 months last year in my lack of interest on the tank. Most of my algae which is normally green spot algae, some blue green algae, and last time A ton of hair algae coated about everything, which is why my plants are currently in a nuked recovery state from the Glut and H2O2 spraying from the last few water changes. I'll have to watch my plants as they recover to see how new growth is doing as far as reading the plants.
> 
> I'm due for mixing up some fresh Macro's in baggies for my RO mix, but figured I'd check with the pro's to see what they think so far. I'm going to hunt through some folks posts to see what I can find for current dosing to see where the current trend is going.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice you may give.
> 
> So far from the little testing I've been able to get done:
> Nitrate - 20ppm
> Phosphate - 1-2ppm
> 
> Going to calibrate my pH meter/co2 doser this week too, just to make sure my CO2 levels are accurate, haven't checked it in about a year LOL
> View attachment 1025079
> 
> 
> View attachment 1025080


I cannot offer you any input on your present dosing routine. However, I would strongly suggest calibrating your pH meter at no more than 6 month integrals. 

How goes it with the digging in the yard?


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## chayos00

ReeferRusso said:


> I cannot offer you any input on your present dosing routine. However, I would strongly suggest calibrating your pH meter at no more than 6 month integrals.
> 
> How goes it with the digging in the yard?





ReeferRusso said:


> I cannot offer you any input on your present dosing routine. However, I would strongly suggest calibrating your pH meter at no more than 6 month integrals.
> 
> How goes it with the digging in the yard?


I managed to get the pH probe/meter calibrated today. The 7.0 solution was reading 7.48, so got it all tweaked back to 7.0 and 4.0. I wasn't yet ng to let it go that long, but that life/lost interest had me not caring. LOL 

Also got to trimming all the damaged plant matter tonight too. Not to the pleasure of my wife though.... Tanks a bit cloudy since I was stirring everything up.

FTS









Left Side










Right Side









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## ReeferRusso

chayos00 said:


> I managed to get the pH probe/meter calibrated today. The 7.0 solution was reading 7.48, so got it all tweaked back to 7.0 and 4.0. I wasn't yet ng to let it go that long, but that life/lost interest had me not caring. LOL
> 
> Also got to trimming all the damaged plant matter tonight too. Not to the pleasure of my wife though.... Tanks a bit cloudy since I was stirring everything up.
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Cloudy or not, it's looking nice to me!


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## jenniemoralis

chayos00 said:


> I managed to get the pH probe/meter calibrated today. The 7.0 solution was reading 7.48, so got it all tweaked back to 7.0 and 4.0. I wasn't yet ng to let it go that long, but that life/lost interest had me not caring. LOL
> 
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Looks great 
How much will it cost me to get the same done?


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## chayos00

jenniemoralis said:


> Looks great
> How much will it cost me to get the same done?


Good question, no clue how much this whole setup has cost. Some would say it's priceless! 

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## chayos00

So the last two weeks I tweaked my dosing just a bit. I went from 0.5 dKH down to 0. I noticed I was having a hard time getting down to about 5ph, was feeding it at 40cc/min but had to bump it to 100cc and still was only around 5.2-3. Going off the calculation of 30ppm I should be around 4.8ph do 0.1dKH (lowest I could use to make it calculate). So today I set my flow to half a turn past 100cc and while on a work call looked over and all the fish were at the top of the tank. Checked my pH and it was about 4.9 on the Milwaukee controller. Did what I could to offgas the tank some and made the fish happy again. I was going to use 0.1dKH as my new level for the RO, but went with 0.2dKH as doubling my co2 use isn't worth it to me. So going to see how this affects the tank and the ph drop. My 0dKH off gas co2 cup sample was about 5.93pH. Will give the new sample a few days to gas and see what that reads. But already seeing 6.2-3 in the cup. 

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## Greggz

chayos00 said:


> I was going to use 0.1dKH as my new level for the RO, but went with 0.2dKH as doubling my co2 use isn't worth it to me. So going to see how this affects the tank and the ph drop. My 0dKH off gas co2 cup sample was about 5.93pH. Will give the new sample a few days to gas and see what that reads. But already seeing 6.2-3 in the cup.


The pH numbers seem correct and what I would expect, but something is wrong with the CO2 consumption.

At zero dKH your CO2 consumption should be down a bit, not up. I've been tracking my CO2 fill ups for years. When my dKH was at 4, my 10 lb CO2 lasted right about 9 weeks. Now at zero dKH my 10 lb lasts about 12 weeks. Always same same/similar pH drop. No way you should be using more CO2.


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## chayos00

Greggz said:


> The pH numbers seem correct and what I would expect, but something is wrong with the CO2 consumption.
> 
> At zero dKH your CO2 consumption should be down a bit, not up. I've been tracking my CO2 fill ups for years. When my dKH was at 4, my 10 lb CO2 lasted right about 9 weeks. Now at zero dKH my 10 lb lasts about 12 weeks. Always same same/similar pH drop. No way you should be using more CO2.


Yeah, I don't know.... The flow on yours never had to change? I bumped my controller oh to a min of 5.25ph so shall see what the system does with it set back to 40cc/min today after getting a WC with 0.2dkh yesterday. 

Part of me wants to redo my plumbing on my big CO2 reactor going up to 1" plumbing from 3/4 as I know my flow is limited with having my UV inline there, 400gph, vs before like 600gph. Maybe I'll Y it and have it return right back in the sump tank vs the reactor, or Y it into the reactor again. Or I could tap into my return to the sump for my DT line and just bump that pump speed up a touch. IDK the ideas all go around one another. 

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## chayos00

So long time no update. I upped my daily dosing of micros 25% and also back to daily vs every other day. It wasn't till the 25% more than plants started to grow like weeds again, so obviously I'm lean on something. Also I ordered a refill of fertilizer from Greenleaf aquarium, $125 exactly otherwise shipping is like $25 for $80 worth of ferts, so I just upped what I ordered instead of keeping only 5lbs went up to 7lbs for all. 

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## chayos00

Well, GLA emailed me today. Turns out heavy fert orders are excluded from free shipping. So I tweaked the order and now it was $80 with shipping. LOL 

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## chayos00

Hey peeps, long time no update from me. Things have been just overgrowing again for me. LOL











So the last few weeks I noticed I kept having to tweak my bean animal drain valve and my pump to keep up my flow. Well turns out once I maxed the speed of it, it wasn't hardly putting out what it used to. In fact my power draw maxed out at 52w when it's an 85w pump and then at the power supply it pulled about 100w overall. Well after swapping power supplies and even cleaning the pump, no change.... So after some debating and then also prioritizing costs since my wife's car needed a few hundred thrown at it... All new brakes, pads ate rotors, brake fluid flush, transmission diy flush (drain and fills), and the rear diff fluid change. So due to those expenses I went with another Jebao DCT-18000 pump vs the original DC-12000. I went bigger as I knew my plumbing could handle it and the new pumps use percents 30-100% vs 6 speeds as my old one was. Let's just say plugging in the new pump it was at 100%, man talk about a fast starting pump and pushing a TON of water where I freaked and cut it off right away to make sure I didn't make a mistake and the pump would out flow my return plumbing. I turned the speed down and got it at like 50% and it was still flowing like a beast. So after playing around for a bit, 30% speed and 100% open on my 1" main drain and the flow was perfect with a tiny amount in my 2nd drain line (ideal bean-animal setup). However now my pump is only drawing 24w of power. Lol 

Beast of a size difference. 










Also I think I've given up on this big 300g tank of mine. Just haven't gotten to it in about a year and not sure if I want to deal with reinforcement of the back wall to hold water without it bowing. Plus as you can see I've got a trailer in my garage that's gonna become my off-road camping trailer, so I need to focus on getting that built up. 









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## chayos00

A few weeks back I finally trimmed the tank and filled a 5g bucket full of clippings. Plus brought some plants to the first fish club meeting I've been to since COVID first locked stuff down. I've been debating about gutting this whole setup and starting from scratch to go with more of a stem style tank.









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## chayos00

Been kinda bad at updates. LOL. This weekend I did a massive cleaning of the substrate. I gravel vacuumed the sand till no more poop/mulm was left. I used my new filter socks and actually had the water return back into the sump and ended up clogging up about 5 filter socks doing so. Earlier in the week I changed up my dosing to remove any added phosphates in my water change after watching Dr Kevin Novak on YouTube (https://youtube.com/channel/UC06AbbfqomU3MvOB4HE64uQ) for a few months and dealing with nonstop algae I figured I'd give it a try. Well, I'm happy to report either the massive mulm removal followed by a rinsing of my poret foam and then having the tank clear up for a day by running it through a filter socks (not easy for mysetup) I don't see any obvious algae as of earlier today!! So gonna keep the phosphate dosing at zero and if it keeps up I'll add it back in a month to see if it was that or the massive cleaning that worked. 


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## ChrisX

chayos00 said:


> Been kinda bad at updates. LOL. This weekend I did a massive cleaning of the substrate. I gravel vacuumed the sand till no more poop/mulm was left. I used my new filter socks and actually had the water return back into the sump and ended up clogging up about 5 filter socks doing so. Earlier in the week I changed up my dosing to remove any added phosphates in my water change after watching Dr Kevin Novak on YouTube (https://youtube.com/channel/UC06AbbfqomU3MvOB4HE64uQ) for a few months and dealing with nonstop algae I figured I'd give it a try. Well, I'm happy to report either the massive mulm removal followed by a rinsing of my poret foam and then having the tank clear up for a day by running it through a filter socks (not easy for mysetup) I don't see any obvious algae as of earlier today!! So gonna keep the phosphate dosing at zero and if it keeps up I'll add it back in a month to see if it was that or the massive cleaning that worked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


I'm in the non-stop algae camp. Its not a big deal on the fast growing stems, but I have to clean the glass a couple times a week.

I haven't considered eliminating the phosphate dose. I remember a few years ago I was running Phosguard and algae was less.

One trick I learned is that while Cories don't eat waste, their constant scavenging pushes mulm into the water column where the filters can deal with it. I have a 29g QT with some low tech plants and a HOB filter. It has always had an icky stubstrate because there isn't much water movement and plants are in various stages of decay. The substrate would collect mulm over time, but since moving my cories there, the sand is clean. Indirectly, cories might help with keeping the water clean.


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## chayos00

ChrisX said:


> I'm in the non-stop algae camp. Its not a big deal on the fast growing stems, but I have to clean the glass a couple times a week.
> 
> I haven't considered eliminating the phosphate dose. I remember a few years ago I was running Phosguard and algae was less.
> 
> One trick I learned is that while Cories don't eat waste, their constant scavenging pushes mulm into the water column where the filters can deal with it. I have a 29g QT with some low tech plants and a HOB filter. It has always had an icky stubstrate because there isn't much water movement and plants are in various stages of decay. The substrate would collect mulm over time, but since moving my cories there, the sand is clean. Indirectly, cories might help with keeping the water clean.


I've had a bunch of cories in the tank actually, probably about 20ish, as I had a pair of Panda Cory mate and moved them to a 20g tank and they popped out a bunch of babies. So those haven't done it for me. 

As of today I am still at nearly zero algae, besides what I missed scrubbing the glass of a few weeks ago. Even my overflow mesh that's normally green with algae is shiny stainless steel at the moment and that went back in over a week ago when it should be nicely green by now. 

Next week's water change is going to get the phosphates put back in as I already mixed up this week's RO tank dose. So we shall see what does it! I had gone to 1ppm of phosphates a few weeks prior to the substrate cleaning and it didn't so anything, so we shall see what the full dose does. 

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## chayos00

Here's the mesh for the overflow.









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## Freemananana

I'm glad to see semi regular updates still! It has been a long time since I've been on the forum. I'd love to have a spare 300g tank in my garage 😂 Unfortunately, my garage looks just as full as yours without the added tank


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## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> I'm glad to see semi regular updates still! It has been a long time since I've been on the forum. I'd love to have a spare 300g tank in my garage  Unfortunately, my garage looks just as full as yours without the added tank


Thanks! Yeah I've sucked at updates, but certainly still around. Sucks having hardly any time for doing much besides water changes. Still haven't sold the 300g tank yet. 

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## Freemananana

chayos00 said:


> Thanks! Yeah I've sucked at updates, but certainly still around. Sucks having hardly any time for doing much besides water changes. Still haven't sold the 300g tank yet.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


I ran into the same thing, except even water changes took a backseat. I'm getting back into it though. Any chance you end up in with more time in the near future? I'd love to see a 300G tank on the site. Big tanks are fun to follow along.


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## chayos00

Freemananana said:


> I ran into the same thing, except even water changes took a backseat. I'm getting back into it though. Any chance you end up in with more time in the near future? I'd love to see a 300G tank on the site. Big tanks are fun to follow along.


Unfortunately I'm still pending getting rid of the big tank. It wouldn't be one I'd probably journal, which I've sucked at keeping up with this one lately. It's just been in a state I haven't been happy with lately and wondering what to do to fix things. Can't seem to keep algae under control. Not really sure what to try doing for it anymore. Besides resetting my dosing regimen back to something from early 2020 when things were fine back then. 

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## chayos00

Here's the tank as it currently looks. Just last Friday for my weekly water change I had to spray it down for the hair algae that's been a constant battle for the last year. Thus things looking like poo. LOL










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