# Copper: which plants does it kill?



## Morainy (Feb 8, 2010)

So, I've sadly learned that copper kills hornwort, after adding copper drops to my tank prophylactically with some new fish. (I was told that the drops could prevent ich or other parasites.)

Does copper kill any other plants?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Copper aquatic herbicides Eg Komeen etc,

Algae: 0.4ppm of Cu++
Plants, about 1 ppm

Species to species selectivity does occur.

So most plants, Crypts have been resistant for the most part IME, the rhizomes resprout and they come back.

The more herbaceous species tend to take the most beating.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Morainy (Feb 8, 2010)

Herbicides? Hmm.

The copper that I put in my tank was from AquaSol, an anti-parasitic drop containing copper sulphate. But, it's probably in lower doses than Komeen. 

Maybe the damage to my hornwort wasn't from the AquaSol, then? 

My hornowort is turning brown in places, after flourishing greenly since I got it.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

it's also a pesticide, so it'll kill any snails or shrimps and fish if the quantity is high enough, 4ppm from what I can remember.


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

Copper is used as an algicide, as well as a pesticide against various invertibrates. Many fish medications are meant for use in the average fish-only aquariums with artificial plants, and not all are complete in their labeled warnings.

_"Cough, cough, quarantine tank, cough, cough."_

Olskule


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## Morainy (Feb 8, 2010)

Thank you, everyone!

Olskule, you are so right about the quarantine tank. (And I do have one!)

But the sad fact is, all of my tanks that I put the AquaSol into had only new fish in them and were essentially quarantine tanks. None of them were sick. I stupidly added this stuff on someone's advice, and after 30 years of fish raising (though not plant keeping) I should have known better.

I still have other tanks without copper and have transferred my hornwort, some of which is still looking quite good. 

The AquaSol said that it was safe for plants and biological filters. 





Olskule said:


> Copper is used as an algicide, as well as a pesticide against various invertibrates. Many fish medications are meant for use in the average fish-only aquariums with artificial plants, and not all are complete in their labeled warnings.
> 
> _"Cough, cough, quarantine tank, cough, cough."_
> 
> Olskule


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Morainy said:


> Herbicides? Hmm.
> 
> The copper that I put in my tank was from AquaSol, an anti-parasitic drop containing copper sulphate. But, it's probably in lower doses than Komeen.
> 
> ...


No, it's not the ADA AS. NH4 at high levels is a herbicide as well, like salt also, but at the correct level/dose, it's a nutrient.

Dose makes the poison.

Aquasol, Hornwort is cheap and easy to get, treat the fish and get them healthy, then buy more hornwort.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Olskule said:


> Copper is used as an algicide, as well as a pesticide against various invertibrates. Many fish medications are meant for use in the average fish-only aquariums with artificial plants, and not all are complete in their labeled warnings.
> 
> _"Cough, cough, quarantine tank, cough, cough."_
> 
> Olskule


+1 ......if you use copper at all...........I do not.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Morainy (Feb 8, 2010)

Thank you, Tom. All my fish were healthy. I foolishly added the drops prophylactically. Unfortunately, I think that once copper has been added to a tank, it can never be completely removed. My tank will likely never be safe for shrimp. Hornwort is my favourite plant, and hopefully most of it will pull through. At least it is not dropping needles.


plantbrain said:


> No, it's not the ADA AS. NH4 at high levels is a herbicide as well, like salt also, but at the correct level/dose, it's a nutrient.
> 
> Dose makes the poison.
> 
> ...


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Copper in your tank won't break down, but it can be reduced to sufficiently low levels with enough water changes. 7 50% water changes will get you to less than 1% of what you have now. 2 90% water changes will do about the same.


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## Morainy (Feb 8, 2010)

I never realized that 7 50% changes would equal 2 90% changes. Thank you for the math help, CJP999. 





cjp999 said:


> Copper in your tank won't break down, but it can be reduced to sufficiently low levels with enough water changes. 7 50% water changes will get you to less than 1% of what you have now. 2 90% water changes will do about the same.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Morainy said:


> I never realized that 7 50% changes would equal 2 90% changes. Thank you for the math help, CJP999.


If you want to know what % of your original water remains after a certain number of partial water changes, just multiply out the % of water that was *not* removed on each water change. So for two 90% changes, you get:

10% * 10% = .10^2 = .01 = 1%

For 7 50% changes you get:

.50^7 = .0078 = .78%

BTW, I'm not saying the above are enough water changes to make you tank invert safe. I'm just showing that you can quickly get down to a small fraction of the original copper levels, especially with large water chagnes. 

Invertz can tolerate some copper, so you don't need to get rid of it all. I'm not sure what the safe levels are, and the % of water you need change out will also depend on how much copper you put it.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

cjp999 said:


> Copper in your tank won't break down, but it can be reduced to sufficiently low levels with enough water changes. 7 50% water changes will get you to less than 1% of what you have now. 2 90% water changes will do about the same.


Copper will be removed by plant biomass and trimming.
Plants are very good export for trace metals, we add quite a bit routinely(CMS, Tropica, any name brand trace) They do not stay there in our aquariums "forever". Dead plants and leaves that are removed also export trace metals.
Filter mulm will also sequester and remove it via export when the filter is cleaned. 

I agree, I'd opt for two large water changes, that would remove any toxic levels fast. Same for the folks with NO2 or NH4 issues, do some water changes and then it's no longer an issue unless you add more.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

As you mentioned, once introduced into the system, there will likely always be traces of copper, due to the copper being absorbed or chelated into/onto various ornaments (rocks, driftwood, equipment, etc.). After this happens, the copper will likely remain within the item unless water chemistry changes enough to release it, as in becoming more acidic. However, the amounts present will likely only be trace amounts and nothing to be concerned about in the freshwater aquarium. Also, the sooner it is removed from the water through water changes, the less time it has to become attatched to anything. Trace amounts of copper can always enter your aquarium through unseen sources, as a natural element in your tap water or by traveling through the copper or brass (an alloy made mainly of copper and zinc) plumbing in your house or even the public water supply equipment.

The point is, it's often there anyway, in trace amounts not measurable with our hobby grade kits, and unless it becomes more concentrated to the point of measurability with a hobby kit, it's not likely to be a problem.

Olskule


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## Morainy (Feb 8, 2010)

Thank you, CJP999, Plantbrain and Olskule, I've learned a lot from your posts. 

I've done the 90% water changes and hopefully the hornwort will pull through. I've got some hitchhiker snails and they seem to be okay.


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