# New here. Just looking for some well needed advice.



## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

Hi,

I'd like to introduce myself here at The Planted Tank. I'll go by my SN bl665. So I've been floating around this forum and website for a while being in the hobby. I've got a lot of good info I've even recommended this site to other friends of the hobby before even joining. :hihi::hihi:

I have had my set-up, which is a 40G tank since about last June. I'd say really close to a year. Everything has been going smoothly so far. I have 1 black knife which has grown tremendously. 3 gold barbs, 3 rosy barbs, I just introduced 6 rosbara tetras, and 1 blood fin tetra. The other comitted suicide icon_frow:icon_frow). Within the last months I've introduced live plants into the equation in order to establish a more balanced and better looking tank. 

The problem is it seems to be going downhill.

I started with a $40 marineland single led light strip that was submersible. Which seemed to be doing ok but for the size of the tank. I could tell I wasnt getting enough lighting. I have eco complete brown substrate with nutriets which is mixed with a pink gravel and small amount of sand. A hob aqua clear filter and have now upgraded to a Finnex 24/7 planted led light. I also use the line of flourish including root tabs I just installed this weekend.

So the thing is most of the plants have lost a lot of fullness. They just have a stem so to say. Also I have an issue with hair algae that seems to stay around. here are some pics.










Take note that the 4th picture down shows when the Frill plant I have was brand new. It now has brown algae grown all over it. The amazon swords seem to be easy enough to clean at points. but also have nibbles on them. which I removed the two fish that were doing it. I do weekly water changes and I still have not seem to come up with the right idea of how to keep these things going.

I'm asking for a lot I know. But your help is much appreciated


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

My first thought is, you got a lot of light and nutrients going on there, with very few plants to take it up. Algae is VERY happy to fill the roll of nutrient eaters.

The idea is to drive the good plants fast enough so that the bad plants don't have any food.

Most people have a large number of fast growing stem plants that outpace the algae and keep it in check.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

You say you started/w a Single Bright but what do you now have ?
Not really enough gravel. Add some but let it still be the same height in the front, just slope it to higher in the back. 2" at the back suggested.
Eco dose not supply nutrients.
Flourish line ? If you have most of those it's still watered down a lot and usually needs to be used @ 2x the recommended amounts IF you had a few more plants in there.
Check this and ask some questions about it till you think you feel comfortable to order some from there or any other fert supplier.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=880897
You can supply complete ferts for the plants with only Osmocote+ capsules except for plants that are not planted in the sub like Anubias.
Those are very strong so two rows down the middle NOT closer than 6" from each other
for a 40B tank. So that would be about five in each row 3" on both sides of the center of the tank from one end to the other.
You might try some Camoba in a back corner of that tank. It will act as your faster growing type plant to help limit/control the algae. Plant each stem separately.
New set-ups take a while to "get it right".


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## Jcstank (Jan 3, 2015)

That light is too powerful for that tank. Its capable of over 50 PAR (medium light) for about 5 hours of the cycle at 18" depth putting you in high light in your tank. You need to either dim the light or raise the fixture to help avoid algae problems. Also as the others have noted adding some fast growing plants to that tank will greatly help. Water Wisteria is a good fast growing very easy plant to grow. With that light you may also want to look into dosing with Seachem Excel along with a good fertilizer regimen like the dry fertilizers that NilocG sells using a toned down EI method. Try and get the PAR down to 30-35. The similar Finnex Planted + will give you about 35 PAR at 25" from the substrate. 

Good luck


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

ichy said:


> My first thought is, you got a lot of light and nutrients going on there, with very few plants to take it up. Algae is VERY happy to fill the roll of nutrient eaters.
> 
> The idea is to drive the good plants fast enough so that the bad plants don't have any food.
> 
> Most people have a large number of fast growing stem plants that outpace the algae and keep it in check.



Ok. That makes sense I just talked to the guy at my lfs and he said the same thing. Try and get some faster type of growing plants. that would be a good place to start. I have one Wisteria plant actually. I just put it in the tank though that is the only thing. I am thinking about adding more as well. The only thing is I really want to change the substrate completely. 

Before I add anything more. Also put it up to about 2" - 2 1/2". Only thing is I need to find a tank to put my fish in. Or do you think they could deal with that type of change ?? My first instict would be that they would go into shock. Any views on this ?



Raymond S. said:


> You say you started/w a Single Bright but what do you now have ?
> Not really enough gravel. Add some but let it still be the same height in the front, just slope it to higher in the back. 2" at the back suggested.
> Eco dose not supply nutrients.
> Flourish line ? If you have most of those it's still watered down a lot and usually needs to be used @ 2x the recommended amounts IF you had a few more plants in there.
> ...



I had a single led 18" Marine land light. It only lit up half the tank barely. Also growth was close to nothing. I figured Since I dose on a regular basis with seachem.


*Just fyi I use the whole flourish line. Excel, Potassium, Phosphorus, Iron, Nitrogen, trace, and Flourish. I even got a chemical schedule from Seachem I'm using.*

I now have a Finnex 36" 24/7 planted+. I love it but am still getting use to the setup. 

Awesome thanks for that link. I've looked into it. I'm not sure if i want to start adding anything new like that just yet. I'd have to do more research to understand it more. 

Comoba I will look into that. The owner of my lfs has a crazy planted tank I'll have to see if has it. Thanks




Jcstank said:


> That light is too powerful for that tank. Its capable of over 50 PAR (medium light) for about 5 hours of the cycle at 18" depth putting you in high light in your tank. You need to either dim the light or raise the fixture to help avoid algae problems. Also as the others have noted adding some fast growing plants to that tank will greatly help. Water Wisteria is a good fast growing very easy plant to grow. With that light you may also want to look into dosing with Seachem Excel along with a good fertilizer regimen like the dry fertilizers that NilocG sells using a toned down EI method. Try and get the PAR down to 30-35. The similar Finnex Planted + will give you about 35 PAR at 25" from the substrate.
> 
> Good luck


It seriously is overwhelming. But with all your help I feel anything is possible. I looked up par and got the difference from Watts per gallon to actual PAR. Which is more technical and correct. 

You are also correct about the high lighting. I did some measuring on my tank and the tank itself stands 17" tall. The light is at 19" so That tells you right there its right in the plants faces with its light. 
Thanks for all the knowledge.

I have to invest and do some rearranging. But let me know about the few questions I had whenever you get a chance. Or anything else you like to add to my reply.


I really appreciate all your time to type these silly post. Really. Thankyou hope to hear from you all soon.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

CO2 for me, I have never used Excel.

Just my opinion here but that much light and all the ferts and very few plants it is algae feeding time.
More plants to use all the nutrients would help for sure.

How long is your photoperiod?
Might only need 6-7 hours a day with that light.

UV is also excellent at keeping algae at bay.


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> CO2 for me, I have never used Excel.
> 
> Just my opinion here but that much light and all the ferts and very few plants it is algae feeding time.
> More plants to use all the nutrients would help for sure.
> ...



Ya I agree I've been talking to a few people about it. I will get some more plants eventually I'm just trying to figure out how I can keep my fish safe. I want to change the substrate also. I know that when you do a change like that the water will be very clouded. Which I wouldnt think would be good for the fish.

Well I have a g24/7 cycle so Thats basically what it is.

and UV ?? How can you use that ?


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Was actually asking how many of the sea chem line you have...if you have all those
you can stay on those as long as you want to keep paying that amount.
Don't know what each cost but if you eventually get used to the idea of the dry it's
about $30 for enough to last a couple of years. Depending on what you included of 
course. A basic "package" deal is less than $20 but needs a couple more items in some cases. For example, on that list...the "package pricing" part...the first or third one/w the iron added would be about $30. Just something to consider.
Window screen cuts light when put on top of the glass of the tank top. It cuts it about 30% per sheet.
Amazon Swords get too big for that tank but just enjoy till then.
That drift wood looks good. Floating Hortworth grows rapidly once it gets acclimated
and if you turn the drift wood till it goes across the back left corner on a 45 instead of
flat on the end it will be seen better and you caqn put a hand full of the floating Hortworth behind it to keep it from blocking the light to the other plants.
When you check out what they have for plants see if they have a Wendtii Bronze.
It would look great behind the rock. I'd stay about 5-6" from the back/w it. They get about 6-7" around and 7-8" tall when grown(at least).
But then this is your tank and you have to see it every day so these are just suggestions...


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

You might consider going non-24/7 mode for a while and dial down the intensity and use a standard timer for a while. They are like $4. That would give you a bit more manual control over intensity, because at high noon, the plants currently can't use all that light. 

Or you could get some floating plants like dwarf water lettuce to suck up some nutrients.

You never mentioned whether the pink gravel is spread through the substrate or just on top. If it's on top, just scrape the top off and remove it. Fish should be fine. If you have it AS the substrate, then I would shift it over to one half of the tank, move plants (or remove them, spray/soak with hydrogen peroxide solution to kill existing algae), rocks, etc. over to the pink side and then add substrate to the bare glass and then move plants and rocks back to where you want them. Then wait for a week or two and remove the rest of the pink, fill with new substrate and plant. It's a bit more of a process to do it "fish-in" but it's possible and you shouldn't have to cycle the tank again. 

I don't think you'll impact the fish to much if you do a scrape and scoop with the substrate. They live in the wild facing monsoons, floods, cows walking through the water...I think your fish will be fine. The filter will clear it up quickly. I haven't lost a fish when stirring up the substrate, and the cloudiness only lasts for a couple of hours at most in an established tank.

After you move your substrate you will likely still have Algae issues as everything is brand new again and will leach into the water for a while before equilibrium is reached. Water changes should help....and I'd buy a bottle of Excel to help deal with algae issues as the setup gets going.

Of course there's always CraigsLust for cheap used tanks if you want to get a hospital/quarantine tank.

Bottom line your light is too strong for now. 

1. Reduce lighting intensity immediately
2. Shift and/or Replace substrate (if you want to)
3. Add more stem or floating plants to increase plant load
4. Add Excel to routine for liquid carbon supplement and algaecide
5. Get an Amano shrimp
6. Report back how it's going.


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

Raymond S. said:


> Was actually asking how many of the sea chem line you have...if you have all those
> you can stay on those as long as you want to keep paying that amount.
> Don't know what each cost but if you eventually get used to the idea of the dry it's
> about $30 for enough to last a couple of years. Depending on what you included of
> ...



I use all of them lol. I really have considered dry ferts but I dont know which kind I should use. As of right now I have some seachem ones. Like I said though I'm not to familiar with the fertilization game so any suggestions would be great. I'd love to not pay an arm and a leg for all the Seachem line if I can get the same effect another route.

So what would bea package deal? What brands ?




Raymond S. said:


> Was actually asking how many of the sea chem line you have...if you have all those
> you can stay on those as long as you want to keep paying that amount.
> Don't know what each cost but if you eventually get used to the idea of the dry it's
> about $30 for enough to last a couple of years. Depending on what you included of
> ...



I use all of them lol. I really have considered dry ferts but I dont know which kind I should use. As of right now I have some seachem ones. Like I said though I'm not to familiar with the fertilization game so any suggestions would be great. I'd love to not pay an arm and a leg for all the Seachem line if I can get the same effect another route.

So what would bea package deal? What brands ?




grizzly_a said:


> You might consider going non-24/7 mode for a while and dial down the intensity and use a standard timer for a while. They are like $4. That would give you a bit more manual control over intensity, because at high noon, the plants currently can't use all that light.
> 
> Or you could get some floating plants like dwarf water lettuce to suck up some nutrients.
> 
> ...


Ya I really need to find a timer. I can go to the lfs and get one but thats $15. lol I will probably head to walmart and check out what they have. I'm sure I could find something.

Referring to the substrate. Its a mixture of Sand, gravel, and the brown nutritious substrate I forgot the name of. I have Excel added to my daily dose. I might end up moving the substrate as you were saying. That sounds like the best idea. I also have thought about moving my tank into my room. My house seems to be having a lot of traffic lately and would be nice If I didnt have to worry about people messing with things. If they did so to say. If I did that though I would be looking at a 60G and would be able to hang the light from the ceiling. 

Just dont tell my roomate!

What is an Amano Shrimp !! I'll have to check into that.

Ok So Recently... well yesterday. I added Ludwiga and more Water wisteria. I also moved everything into the middle sort of in a drum circle type of style. I also hid the Java Fern underneath the driftwood to keep away from my oversized lighting. Pictures up shortly.


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## OrdanJay (Jun 7, 2015)

SAE's are always a good idea. If you bug your LFS long enough they SHOULD be able to bring some in for you.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

In addition to what's already been mentioned, it's good to maintain super clean tank conditions; filters, substrate surface, etc, and especially dont skimp on water changes. You may not necessarily need to do 50%/week, but it wouldnt be a bad idea, 30% at least. Algae doesnt like water changes.


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

SAE's What do you mean ? 

I actually do almost 40% water changes weekly. along with cleaning the filter. It seems to keep all the fish happy and thriving along with the plants. So I will definitely keep that practice 

Here are some pictures. My phone sucks so bare with me!


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

SAE = Siamese Algae Eater, a particular species of algae eating fish that will munch on most types of algae. They're different from the standard "algae eater" sold in stores. If you can find them, they're worth getting for a planted tank with fish.


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## Kindafishy (Jan 14, 2015)

Just an FYI, the plant that was intended to be mentioned above was Cabomba. Anacharis is another very fast growing excess nutrient sponge.


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

Hey Everyone! Here's a bit of an update.




jasonpatterson said:


> SAE = Siamese Algae Eater, a particular species of algae eating fish that will munch on most types of algae. They're different from the standard "algae eater" sold in stores. If you can find them, they're worth getting for a planted tank with fish.


I went to my lfs and took a look at his planted tank. He sure enough had a huge SAE's however. He did not want to give them to me. lol I guess he's had them for a long time and doesnt want to sell them. I guess he got some in today. 

He gave me another option though for the time being since I wasn't able to make it today. In another one of his planted tanks he has a few Otto Cichlids. I purchased 5 of them. So far they have been doing a great job of cleaning the algae off of my plants. For one day they do good work. !!

I also purchased a timer from wal-mart. (thanks for the heads up on that) Got my Finnex set up on max light for 6 hrs out of the day/night when I get home. This way I can enjoy it a little bit.

I also purchased a Glowfish Tetra (green) he has very unique eyes, and a Spotted puffer fish which loves snails is in my other 7G tank. He is also a very unique type of fish. I had to move him due to him trying to nibble at the Otto's

Anyone ever have one of these before ??? or Otto's ?? :hihi:

So far thanks for all the help and I will be watching the progress !


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## Gplus (Apr 2, 2012)

Simply put, you need more plants. The light your using puts off way to much light for the amount of plants you have. A general rule is to plant heavily from the start to avoid an algae overtake. Algae doesn't sleep (like rust) lol. Get that tank full of cheap fast growing plants and you'll be good to go!


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

That sounds good. I'll go exploring this weekend. I also have a 7G tank I just put my dwarf puffer fish in. 


If anyone is in the so cal area and wants two very healthy goldfish to start a pond or tank. I have two you can have for *free*. They eat my plants. Hence why all the plants in this tank have been moved. 

I did want to make this a planted tank as well. Possibly more driftwood too. I know this tank would be much easier to fill up. I'm just worried about the light. It's an 18" Marine land single led Submersible light. It wouldn't work for my bigger tank but This 7G it lights up. !! 

Any Suggestions ?


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

So just some new additions and an update. I ordered some Scarlet temple, Crispus, and Wendtii green. I've heard of scarlet temple. but have any of you heard or had experience with any of the other two ?

Another thing, Have any of you used any outside source for* Iron*. besides tablets. I really want to keep the red plants *red*.

Since my light has now been on a timer for 6 hrs daily. On its Max setting. Also from adding the Otto Chichlids (algae suckers). 

My tank is algae free after about 2 days!! Growth has been increased rapidly and can Already see results!! I'm stoked !!

Like I said I ordered these plants and will substitute the other half of my tank with nutrient filled substrate (right hand half) before adding plants. This will increase my plant load hopefully sucking up more nutrients.

So far all of your advice has been amazing and proven so far. Thanks all I'll post some pictures up later 

Also don't mind to give me some examples for that 7G tank. It's next !!


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

1. red plants don't get red from iron, but from amount and quality of light.

plants:
Aponogeton crispus? A bulb? if yes, beautiful lime green wavy edge plant that grows FAST AND BIG!

Cryptocoryne wendtii...very nice well behaved plant, easy to grow.

fyi, there is a plant and fish database on here to search.


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

in terms of ferts.

use up your seachem stuff, nothing wrong with it.
Then go into the classifieds and look for a user nilocg

http://nilocg.com

ask him questions, decide what route you want to go, buy it.


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up. Ill def have to check that out. I dont mind the seachem stuff but it is expensive $$ lol

I ordered a bunch of plants. The place said they can get them in a couple weeks so I'll just have to wait. I did happen to go by my other shop and pick up some *Teranthera*.

I've never heard of it but it looks really pretty. Does anyone know the scientific name for this guy ?



I also started to separate and remove the old substrate. The black substrate is a lot softer and seems like it'll make for easy root movement !!


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

So since the last time I was on here I havent received anything back lol. I hope thats not a bad thing. :iamwithst 

*
First question I have Involves food. I know hitachi makes very good food according to a few people Ive talked to. I was discussing this with the lfs owner the other day and was pronouncing that API food is crap compared to Tetra Color. He basically said Feeding your fish with API is like feeding your kid Mcdonalds. Anyone have any insight or info on this? I've stopped using my API haha. 
*
Anyways Figured I'd give you all something new to check out. I added an additional 10g and 7g to my room. (my roomate loves me):help: 

The one on the left (7G) Has one Dwarf puffer which loves these plants I've gotten him.

The one on the right (10) I just set up with a fluval filter, 3 ottos, mr aqua substrate, some seachem fert cups, and the light I'll be changing to a finnex or another reputable light that would be good to go across 2 low tech tanks likes this. ideas ??

Also When I got all the plants for this tank I really forgot to write down the names of them so If you see any you recognize please feel free to feel me in on the name. Other than that Ill be looking through the plant profiles.


Along with the question regarding the pellet food. What is something that Otto's would likely eat besides just algae ???



Here are some pics::


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

*Please give me some responses lol This is the third time I've tried to ask  I will greatly appreciate it.*


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

about the food???


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## bl665 (Jun 16, 2015)

Ya that question Ive been looking for some answers on. I figured this would be a good place to go to ask.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Glad things are turning around for you. I don't have an answer on your food.

I would suggest that you maybe do a little research before you start just adding stuff to your tank. Different plants thrive under different parameters. You should get ones that are compatible with each other. Get the name of the plant, check it out in the data base here or do a google search. Decide if it will work for you and then add it. Some of the plants that are commonly sold in LFS are not even compatible with being submerged all the time!


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Check this out..very good food...
My pygmies can't get enough of the catfish sticks! They literally line up when the light comes on!

Food & Feeders


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