# 40 Breeder build - DIY Red Oak Stand



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

One problem that always has to be considered when you use solid wood to build something like this is wood shrinkage and expansion. Wood shrinks more across the grain than with the grain. For small widths it isn't usually a concern, but when you make a panel from narrow strips to get a wide board, the shrinkage can be very significant. You can design around the problem, so I suggest thinking about this as the boards get narrow faster than other boards at right angles get shorter.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

Hoppy said:


> One problem that always has to be considered when you use solid wood to build something like this is wood shrinkage and expansion. Wood shrinks more across the grain than with the grain. For small widths it isn't usually a concern, but when you make a panel from narrow strips to get a wide board, the shrinkage can be very significant. You can design around the problem, so I suggest thinking about this as the boards get narrow faster than other boards at right angles get shorter.


I understand what you mean. And to be honest, it only crossed my mind once. Now I know pine shrinks because it isn't kiln dried. The red oak I will be purchasing will be kiln dried. Do you think I'll still run into that problem? If so, would be a slow or fast shrink like pine or even that much of a shrink as pine?

Bump: I also forgot to ask about lighting. I like the full dispersment of light that t5's give off verse other lighting, so with that being said, i was wondering if a 24inch hydroponic grow light fixture hung say 8-12inches above the tank would be enough to cover the ends of the tank like a 36 inch aquarium light would?

Bump: i'm also open to suggestions on lighting besides t5's. My ears are open.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

You can handle wood movement. The only time it gets hairy with movement is in cross grain situations. Pine is kiln dried. Most woods you buy at a BBS is kiln dried. 
A simple way to mitigate movement is using plywood that is edged all four sides with solid wood. That's how I built my library system. the down side though is the BBS only carries plain sawn veneer plywood. Actually it's more like they just roll the log and slice as it's rolling to get one long veneer. It needs to be noted that with plywood the grain pattern/direction is purely for looks. The strength is in the cross ply construction unlike solid wood.
I also used a tongue and dado joint where the sides meet. I can dry fit my cabinets together and lift them up without glue and it stays together. It's also self squaring.
The most expensive way to mitigate movement is of course to use quarter sawn woods.


Acclimate the wood to your shop for at least a week. Keep your shop as close to the humidity level in the house if possible.

Glue up large panels out of smallish pieces. It wil be less prone to warp.

If you do use solid wood then you need to be careful with the top and how you attach it to the carcass.

I've had the Kreg for years. I rarely use it. Well I use it when I can't tie up clamps for gluing. Or I don't have a clamp long enough. My go to is simply a really good glue. That joint will be stronger than the wood itself.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

GraphicGr8s said:


> You can handle wood movement. The only time it gets hairy with movement is in cross grain situations. Pine is kiln dried. Most woods you buy at a BBS is kiln dried.
> A simple way to mitigate movement is using plywood that is edged all four sides with solid wood. That's how I built my library system. the down side though is the BBS only carries plain sawn veneer plywood. Actually it's more like they just roll the log and slice as it's rolling to get one long veneer. It needs to be noted that with plywood the grain pattern/direction is purely for looks. The strength is in the cross ply construction unlike solid wood.
> I also used a tongue and dado joint where the sides meet. I can dry fit my cabinets together and lift them up without glue and it stays together. It's also self squaring.
> The most expensive way to mitigate movement is of course to use quarter sawn woods.
> ...


that is a lot of really good info. thank you. how would you attach the top? instead of screwing wood to wood leaving little to no room for expansion, i was thinking of using a few small brass angle brackets. screw one side to the stand the other to the top allowing for the shift. what's your take on this?


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

There's a number of ways really. They have "figure 8" fasteners. Looks like two washers and you drill a bit into the carcass to accommodate the thickness of the metal and screw it to the carcass. Turn the cabinet over and screw to the top. This allows the wood to move.

Here's one type. 

Desk Top Fasteners, 8 Pack - Rockler Woodworking Tools


You can cut a groove around the perimeter of the carcass and make wood blocks that have a tongue that fits into the grove and a hole through it to screw it to the top.
What I do though is before I assemble it I cut the groove around the top inside of each side. Then I cut triangle pieces of wood and cut a tongue on the right angle. That gets inserted into the groove while I am assembling. Then I drill an oversized hole for the screw that holds the top. That oversize hole allows for top movement. And that's good. Better though that right angle forces the cabinet to square the top without much effort.

Here's another thing I do. You want to build in a shelf. Or attach the bottom. I cut a dado that is smaller than the thickness of the plywood. I cut the dado in position where I want the visible side to be. Then I cut a rabbet on the bottom of the shelf and sneak up on it until I get a snug fit. No more loose plywood joints nor do I have to buy a special plywood bit. (I've got a couple though they are getting dull hence this technique. Regular dado bits are cheap)

If you don't have a router table it is easy to do on a saw. I've used my radial arm many times.

Another way I've attached the top when it's a plywood edged is to use the Kreg. I put screws along the top rails that run the same direction as the top edge. And I leave them a tad loose.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

m_t_r_86 said:


> I understand what you mean. And to be honest, it only crossed my mind once. Now I know pine shrinks because it isn't kiln dried. The red oak I will be purchasing will be kiln dried. Do you think I'll still run into that problem? If so, would be a slow or fast shrink like pine or even that much of a shrink as pine?
> 
> Bump: I also forgot to ask about lighting. I like the full dispersment of light that t5's give off verse other lighting, so with that being said, i was wondering if a 24inch hydroponic grow light fixture hung say 8-12inches above the tank would be enough to cover the ends of the tank like a 36 inch aquarium light would?
> 
> Bump: i'm also open to suggestions on lighting besides t5's. My ears are open.


All wood shrinks and expands as the air humidity changes, especially seasonal changes. I have seen several DIY furniture (made by my dad) where cracks opened up over several years when two pieces of wood with the grain 90 degrees to each other were glued together. Either the glue joint would crack or the wood would crack. But, if you are careful how you join the pieces with grain direction changes it can work out fine. One thing I have seen a lot of is panel doors, where the door is stained/varnished after assembly. The panel then shrinks or expands or both and an unfinished edge starts showing at the joints. Again, if it is done right that isn't a problem. I always used plywood panels, just to be sure not to run into that problem.

If you hang a 24 inch long light over a 36 inch long aquarium you will very likely have more drop off in light intensity at the ends of the tank than with a 36 inch light, but you also have a lot less light spillover at the ends. So, I like using 24 inch lights hanging above a 36 inch tank. The hydroponic T5HO lights tend to be very good, and much cheaper than aquarium lights. As long as you are hanging them several inches above the tank the lower grade waterproofing should be adequate.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

If you look under an old table you will see it is attached with shaped metal plates in little grooves, this allows the wood to expand and shrink seasonally.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

thank you GraphicGr8s, Hoppy and Nordic. the information was spot on what i was looking for. for a visual of what you were talking about, i found this. they all look to be solid joining methods, but since I'm no expert, and you guys know what your talking about, which method would you choose. remember that i don't want to put all this time and money into it to have one minor mistake room it all. thanks again. 

Attaching Tabletops | Building Tables | Wood Workers


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> All wood shrinks and expands as the air humidity changes, especially seasonal changes. I have seen several DIY furniture (made by my dad) where cracks opened up over several years when two pieces of wood with the grain 90 degrees to each other were glued together. Either the glue joint would crack or the wood would crack. But, if you are careful how you join the pieces with grain direction changes it can work out fine. One thing I have seen a lot of is panel doors, where the door is stained/varnished after assembly. The panel then shrinks or expands or both and an unfinished edge starts showing at the joints. Again, if it is done right that isn't a problem. I always used plywood panels, just to be sure not to run into that problem.
> 
> .


I do make raised panels with solid wood Hoppy. And not just for doors. The ke is to get stain on the panel before it's assembled. You will never see the bare wood when it moves that way. Some people use "space balls" to keep the panel from rattling.

Bump:


m_t_r_86 said:


> thank you GraphicGr8s, Hoppy and Nordic. the information was spot on what i was looking for. for a visual of what you were talking about, i found this. they all look to be solid joining methods, but since I'm no expert, and you guys know what your talking about, which method would you choose. remember that i don't want to put all this time and money into it to have one minor mistake room it all. thanks again.
> 
> Attaching Tabletops | Building Tables | Wood Workers


Your link shows a breadboard end on what could be a solid table top. That is another area where it could lead to trouble not done right. A breadboard end is a tongue and groove joint. A bit of glue right in the center will force the movement to both sides cutting the amount that shows on either side in half. The ends of the breadboard are in fact secured with a dowel. The hole you drill into the tongue on the panel is however elongated to account for movement. 

Much of how you build your stand depends on the tools at hand. I've got the tools so I use one method I've perfected. I've got other tools, like a router table fence that is accurate to 1/1000 of an inch I never use. And my Kreg doesn't see much use either. Mostly use it like I've said and also on areas where it would be difficult if not impossible to get a clamp on. I've just found it to be finicky to get face frames flat consistently. And yes, I've talked to Kreg reps.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

GraphicGr8s said:


> Much of how you build your stand depends on the tools at hand. I've got the tools so I use one method I've perfected. I've got other tools, like a router table fence that is accurate to 1/1000 of an inch I never use. And my Kreg doesn't see much use either. Mostly use it like I've said and also on areas where it would be difficult if not impossible to get a clamp on. I've just found it to be finicky to get face frames flat consistently. And yes, I've talked to Kreg reps.


Unfortunately for me, I don't have an extensive workshop. I have the basics. Table saw, circular saw, jig saw, compound miter saw, corded and cordless drills, the kreg kit i just picked up and the non electric tools (my wife calls those the caveman tools...lol) Because I'm limited on tools, the only way for me to go about building this is to use the kreg tool. Also, at the moment, I'm not looking to add to my list of tools (my wife might kill me if I continue bringing more and more in without a break in between).

But seriously, the info you guys have given me was great. Some of it I had thought of. Some of it never once crossed my mind. Thank you.


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## mooncon1 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ive built stands for a 29 gallon a 55 gallon 75 gallon and a 125 gallon and have never had a problem with any of them.I think for a 40 gallon tank all you people are over thinking it.A pocket hole jig is your best friend.I have table saws,a shaper for raised panel doors and just about any tool in between but the one tool I will never without is my pocket hole jig.I don't know if you have bought the kregg yet but if not I would look at harbor freight they have an excellent pocket hole jig.You wont really save any money but it just seems like a better tool to me.I think the most important part is the corners and the stiles that's where most of the weight is,dont forget the glue its your second best friend make sure it water proof.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

mooncon said:


> Ive built stands for a 29 gallon a 55 gallon 75 gallon and a 125 gallon and have never had a problem with any of them.I think for a 40 gallon tank all you people are over thinking it.A pocket hole jig is your best friend.I have table saws,a shaper for raised panel doors and just about any tool in between but the one tool I will never without is my pocket hole jig.I don't know if you have bought the kregg yet but if not I would look at harbor freight they have an excellent pocket hole jig.You wont really save any money but it just seems like a better tool to me.I think the most important part is the corners and the stiles that's where most of the weight is,dont forget the glue its your second best friend make sure it water proof.


i already bought the kreg. completely forgot about harbor freight. used to go there all the time when i lived in Chicago but now the army has me at Fort hood and the closest one is almost a 45 minute drive. Lowe's and HD are the closest ones to me and slim pickings as it goes unless i venture out towards Austin. i was going to use the kreg on the joints with glue but my main concern was a buckling table top. thanks to everyone on here i now think I'll be better off with this build. especially the top now. hopefully my tax return comes in within the next fees days so i can get this show rolling. already been 2wks. and as for the sides and back, instead of going with boats i think i might use some oak plywood just to make sure there's no over expansion of the wood.


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## gbb0330 (Nov 21, 2015)

shrinkage and expansion is not going to be an issue indoors at those lengths/widths. 
to make is strong use 4x4 for legs and make a notch like in this picture:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-u82uY3T6y2M/UY1xiYNsruI/AAAAAAAACKc/aET5L94Lr0U/s1600/IMG_1742.JPG


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

I'm really trying to stay away from the use of construction grade wood and do this solely out of oak and IMO a 3x3 piece of oak is going to be plenty strong. the table top will sit on the 3x3s and the cross members are mainly there to support the structure from wobble. correct me if I'm wrong. I'm open to criticism. i won't get butt hurt. if it's going to keep this project from falling I'm all for it but at the same time i don't want to over complicate it.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

m_t_r_86 said:


> Unfortunately for me, I don't have an extensive workshop. I have the basics. Table saw, circular saw, jig saw, compound miter saw, corded and cordless drills, the kreg kit i just picked up and the non electric tools (my wife calls those the caveman tools...lol) Because I'm limited on tools, the only way for me to go about building this is to use the kreg tool. Also, at the moment, I'm not looking to add to my list of tools (my wife might kill me if I continue bringing more and more in without a break in between).
> 
> But seriously, the info you guys have given me was great. Some of it I had thought of. Some of it never once crossed my mind. Thank you.


I've built cabinets with less than that. Well with that less the Kreg jig.
Yo can do rabbets, dados, and tongue and dado joints with the table saw. While I do have a bench mounted radial arm saw capable of breaking down 4 x 8 sheets of plywood, most times I put the sheet goods on a 2 x 4 framework on saw horses and break it down with my circ saw and a straight edge clamp. I do have a great blade for it and get glue joint cuts. My fish tank racks had the rabbets cut by repeated passes with the circ saw then cleaned up with a chisel. (Took me 4 hours to realize the batteries weren't dead. A chisel isn't powered.)
Hell you can do mortise and tenon joints with what you have.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

gbb0330 said:


> shrinkage and expansion is not going to be an issue indoors at those lengths/widths.
> to make is strong use 4x4 for legs and make a notch like in this picture:
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-u82uY3T6y2M/UY1xiYNsruI/AAAAAAAACKc/aET5L94Lr0U/s1600/IMG_1742.JPG


Much easier and consistent to use 2x4s 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

I've used 2x4 and other 2x??? material to build stands. they're great,reliable and definitely over built but take up valuable space underneath a small aquarium where all that over building isn't necessary for the weight of maybe 500-600lbs. this is also going to be a show piece inside my living room. if it were going in my fish room i wouldn't care to much. since it isn't i want it to add close to what would come out of a carpenters furniture shop. i am limited in tools and because this will be my first time going away from the 2x?? material i will be taking it slow and making sure everything is precise,not leading to a mistake. i know the design will hold the weight of a 40 breeder. that wasn't my concern. my concern was the flexing of the hardwood and now the table top. but hoppy and others have given me some really good advice and that's what I'm going to follow.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

m_t_r_86 said:


> that is a lot of really good info. thank you. how would you attach the top? instead of screwing wood to wood leaving little to no room for expansion, i was thinking of using a few small brass angle brackets. screw one side to the stand the other to the top allowing for the shift. what's your take on this?


Glue is stronger than screw if you have app the clamps. Would be a good way to put your stand together. 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

Ok everyone, the time has come. I went out and bought all my wood. Had to make some last minute changes. I will not be building this from oak. For one, the selection of wood available to me was just crap. And my wife really got on me for cost of the build. So, I went with finishing pine. I know a lot of you are probably saying, "ugh, pine? It's not going to be strong enough." Well, I ran a test a few days ago. I built a coffee table out of pine about a year ago and it wasn't built properly. However there's no warping or wobble and my wife, myself and the kids all stood on it. Didn't even budge. That's about 500 lbs amongst us. It's also built out of 1x2 pine with 1x4 pine joined together for the top and bottom top and shelf. So, here we go. Today I will be cutting and making pocket holes. If I have enough time I will assemble it without glue and check the stand for defects. If ask is good I will disassemble, sand, stain and reassemble with glue. After its all assembled, I will seal it and go from there. Also ordered my aquatek mini which should be in today. More updates to come!


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

m_t_r_86 said:


> Ok everyone, the time has come. I went out and bought all my wood. Had to make some last minute changes. I will not be building this from oak. For one, the selection of wood available to me was just crap. And my wife really got on me for cost of the build. So, I went with finishing pine. I know a lot of you are probably saying, "ugh, pine? It's not going to be strong enough." Well, I ran a test a few days ago. I built a coffee table out of pine about a year ago and it wasn't built properly. However there's no warping or wobble and my wife, myself and the kids all stood on it. Didn't even budge. That's about 500 lbs amongst us. It's also built out of 1x2 pine with 1x4 pine joined together for the top and bottom top and shelf. So, here we go. Today I will be cutting and making pocket holes. If I have enough time I will assemble it without glue and check the stand for defects. If ask is good I will disassemble, sand, stain and reassemble with glue. After its all assembled, I will seal it and go from there. Also ordered my aquatek mini which should be in today. More updates to come!


I love pine. Especially a nice knotty pine. You need to take precautions with pine when finishing though. It is very prone to blotching. You need to use either a conditioner or a diluted top coat to seal up the open pores a bit then stain.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

Well, the stand is roughly 70% done. Not bad for a days work. I know this is going to be a cliff hanger not having pictures right now, buy I will post them in the morning. It's pretty sturdy. Very strong and light weight.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

As promised, PICTURES!!!


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## paronaram (Jun 29, 2009)

Very nice clean build, I also like drawer idea. :wink2:


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Not to shabby.

Couple things I see. Your stiles should have gone all the way to the top. The rails go in between on a cabinet.

How are you going to attach the drawer bottom? Normally it is a sheet of plywood in a dado. It floats free to avoid the movement problem.

How are you going to prevent racking?


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

GraphicGr8s said:


> Not to shabby.
> 
> Couple things I see. Your stiles should have gone all the way to the top. The rails go in between on a cabinet.
> 
> ...


Because I am using 1 1/2" pine, I didn't want the stiles going to the top. The screws didn't have enough bite going through like that. Note the rails did have really good bite into the posts. The drawer will have a groove cut into the bottom of the sides and the plywood will free float to avoid wood expansion issues.

Not quite sure what you mean by racking.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

It won't let me edit my post. The drawer is not glued yet and I will cut a 1/4" channel in the bottom of the sides, front and back.

Bump:


GraphicGr8s said:


> How are you going to prevent racking?


From what I can find on the web, you seen to be talking about the drawer racking. Also most of the time racking is a result of wood on wood and not using a mechanical mechanism to slide it. I could be wrong.

The drawer is perfectly square as is the stand. I am using standard drawer sliders. No issues with bobble or side to side movement. If an issue were to come up, I honestly don't know what do besides bracing the drawer itself with small triangles cuts off wood on the bottom for corners.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

So I can't post any more pictures. Not sure if it's because I've posted so many as is on other posts or what. Thought it was the picture sizes, so I resized them to less than 100kb and still nothing. I'm going to to try and use my photobucket now. Pictures to come.

Bump: I was being a little impatient this morning and snapped these two.





Bump: And these are from about an hour ago after I finished taking the stand apart to glue it, sand it, and stain it. This will be it until next weekend. Work eats up a lot of my time.

















Bump: the 1/4"x1/4" grooves on the inside of the stand on the sides and back are recessed like that for the 1/4" plywood panels. They will be held in place by the swivel clips used on the back of picture frames. I wanted to use the picture fram clips incase I ever need to replace a piece of plywood. This way I don't have to take the whole stand apart.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

m_t_r_86 said:


> Because I am using 1 1/2" pine, I didn't want the stiles going to the top. The screws didn't have enough bite going through like that. Note the rails did have really good bite into the posts. The drawer will have a groove cut into the bottom of the sides and the plywood will free float to avoid wood expansion issues.
> 
> Not quite sure what you mean by racking.


With 1 1/2" wood you should have had enough to bite. 

I had enough with 1 1/4 stiles and rails.

Racking is the top of the stand wanting to meet the bottom. A parallelogram instead of a rectangle. Usually you account for it with a back panel that hits the two legs and the top and bottom stiles.
I can see a bead board enclosing that stand. Maybe a panel door for the front. If you're not going to wrap it then all those pocket holes are visible.

OK just took another look and you are putting plywood in. Staple or finish nail it. Glue isn't needed there but you do want it secured with fasteners. Plywood is a bit more stable than solid wood and staples/finish nails have just enough give to not have to worry about expansion and contraction. That will mitigate racking.

WOW. That is a lot of pocket holes. Do you have enough wood left to hold the tank?


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

GraphicGr8s said:


> WOW. That is a lot of pocket holes. Do you have enough wood left to hold the tank?


Lol. Lots of screws and glue. It's not going anywhere. Still light as a feather.

Bump:


GraphicGr8s said:


> Racking is the top of the stand wanting to meet the bottom. A parallelogram instead of a rectangle. Usually you account for it with a back panel that hits the two legs and the top and bottom stiles.
> I can see a bead board enclosing that stand. Maybe a panel door for the front. If you're not going to wrap it then all those pocket holes are visible.


Ahh, I see. Honestly, I don't see the stand doing that. It's pretty solid. However, that's without a 500 lb tank on it. 

I don't want the plywood to be a permanent thing. I would like to replace the plywood with clouded glass one day when my kids are older and the possibility of glass breaking.

I might add a full 1 1/2" stile strip on the inside of all four posts. I have to add something there anyway for the hidden hinges.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

m_t_r_86 said:


> Lol. Lots of screws and glue. It's not going anywhere. Still light as a feather.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> ...


If you glued it properly you could remove all the screws and the glue joint would still be stronger than the wood itself. 

Even if you want a glass for the front and sides adding a plywood back adds considerable strength and rack protection. Racking will *generally* occur in the longest dimension.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

GraphicGr8s said:


> If you glued it properly you could remove all the screws and the glue joint would still be stronger than the wood itself.
> 
> Even if you want a glass for the front and sides adding a plywood back adds considerable strength and rack protection. Racking will *generally* occur in the longest dimension.


Never thought of beadboard. And that you mentioned it, I think I might go with it.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

m_t_r_86 said:


> Never thought of beadboard. And that you mentioned it, I think I might go with it.


I like the bead board as a back.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

GraphicGr8s said:


> I like the bead board as a back.


I think I'm going to go with beadboard all the way around. After looking at some I really like the way it looks. If I do go with it, should I stain it the same as the stand or go a little lighter? Same goes for the table top. Same stain as stand out lighter?

Bump: Also what would you recommend for a finish? Polyacrylic out polyurethane?


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

m_t_r_86 said:


> I think I'm going to go with beadboard all the way around. After looking at some I really like the way it looks. If I do go with it, should I stain it the same as the stand or go a little lighter? Same goes for the table top. Same stain as stand out lighter?
> 
> Bump: Also what would you recommend for a finish? Polyacrylic out polyurethane?


Stain color is what you like. My opinion carries no weight here at all. (I'd stain it all one color.)
Stain it before you put it into the frames though. Then if it should shrink a touch you don't have bare wood showing.

For the topcoat it depends.
Do you want an amber tint to it? If so than an oil polyurethane is called for.

If not than I'd go with a water based polyurethane. 

I do three coats on the oil and up to 6 on the WB. First coat is a sealer. I put it on. Let it dry then get the second on. I level the second. Third goes on then a rub out with the finest steel wool Four aught IIRC. Coat of good wax and the oil based is done.

WB I do a bit different. The third coat gets no sanding. Fourth goes right on top. Fifth gets sanded. Sixth gets sanded also. Don't use steel wool on WB ever. I use a fine grit wet sandpaper and I do use water on the last coats. 


Besides water or oil you need to decide if you want a gloss or a satin.
If gloss that's pretty straight forward. You follow the steps above. One change is on the last coat. Straight out of the can the gloss is very harsh. I want my gloss to look like a car finish. So I wet sand as fine a paper as I can get then go through rubbing compound, polishing compound then last a good auto wax.

When I do a satin/flat/velvet finish I run the first coats with a gloss top coat. In oil the first two coats are gloss. In water the first 5. The last coat is the flat/satin/velvet.
Why? These polys have flattening agents in them. That is the major difference between flat and gloss. In fact if you don't shake/stir the can you basically have a gloss. I find running all flat coats just hides way too much of the wood. I get better chatoyance with the gloss/flat than with all flat.

It sounds like a lot more work than it actually is. (Much of the time is spent waiting for the stuff to dry.) And the results, in my opinion, are worth it.

You could even go with a falt for the bead board and a gloss for the solid wood parts and top.

Just as an aside I'm not a real fan of Minwax coatings. There stains are acceptable but I've found their top coats to be less than desirable. There are better products out there. I use a bit of the Zinser stuff along with Varathane. The first time I used WB in fact Lowes was discontinuing one of the Zinser products. So for the price I got a gallon. I went back and bought all they had left. Stuff was great to work with.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

GraphicGr8s said:


> Stain color is what you like. My opinion carries no weight here at all. (I'd stain it all one color.)
> Stain it before you put it into the frames though. Then if it should shrink a touch you don't have bare wood showing.
> 
> For the topcoat it depends.
> ...


I agree. For Christmas I built my dad a shadow box for his 30 yr retirement from Chicago PD. I really took my time and probably used 7-8 costs of poly gloss and wet sanded the hell out of it until you could see yourself in the finish. Turned out great and the presentation was even better. So, yes the outcome of patience is well worth it.

I was leaning towards staining it all one color. However I do like to hear what others like and have done. Gives me ideas.

Thanks.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

When my father passed in 01 I bought some old growth cherry salvaged from a barn to build the case for the flag. I've got it aging in the garage. But when I get to building it it will be natural with just shellac. Real old school. Maybe a French Polish.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

Ok, so it's been a few weeks and I apologize for leaving everyone hanging. Don't exactly get to choose my time off. The military likes to take a lot of your time. But now I'm back. Lol. I went to HD and Lowe's and picked up the remaining pieces needed to finish the stand as well as my diy led pendant and the plumbing. Pictures coming tonight. I promise.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

As promised. Pictures!!! The stand will be finished tomorrow. Will have more pictures then. Should I start a new thread on the tank and DIY LEDs or just continue on here?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I suggest you continue with the stand "story" until it is finished here, so those of us following this can easily find the results. Then start another thread about the LED light, completing it with the light on the tank on the stand photos.

That stand is looking absolutely great!!


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

Hoppy said:


> I suggest you continue with the stand "story" until it is finished here, so those of us following this can easily find the results. Then start another thread about the LED light, completing it with the light on the tank on the stand photos.
> 
> That stand is looking absolutely great!!


Ok. I'll do that. I'll finish the stand build here and then start another thread with everything else. Thanks. I really wanted to get more done this weekend but one too many stops to the store really are up some time. I took some more pictures of today's progress and will post them once I wash the stain off my hands. Lol.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

So here are the pictures of tonight's progress. I also added some angled supports at the top of the stand to help with stability.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

You didn't use conditioner did you?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Just for brainstorming: consider painting the panels with a relatively bright color, like orange. I find that ordinary plywood grain is very distracting and unattractive when stained dark like that. But, painted panels can be very attractive.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> Just for brainstorming: consider painting the panels with a relatively bright color, like orange. I find that ordinary plywood grain is very distracting and unattractive when stained dark like that. But, painted panels can be very attractive.


Many times on old cabinets you'll see the back bead board painted a green even thought the rest of the wood is stained.


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## m_t_r_86 (Jan 10, 2016)

And, at last, I am finished! All-in-all, it turned out quite good. in a week i'll do a weight test with a few hundred pounds of sand bags. Thanks for all the advice given, it really made this build a better one.


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## gbb0330 (Nov 21, 2015)

excellent work


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