# ADA Mini-S Iwagumi, Now with 100% more Origami



## nips

is this the one you reacquired back? It looks great! what did you do with that 27w archaea?


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## Craigthor

Need moar pics of rock work...


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## Francis Xavier

This will be fun


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## Wicket_lfe

that is seksy.


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## Dollface

*ADA Mini S or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Hobby* (Maybe).

So I'm gonna be frank with you guys, these past 6 months have sucked. I mean rolling-my-car-off-a-cliff kind of sucked. My passion for planted tanks had been waning prior, I had torn down my UG farm, stopped visiting the forums, but pulling a kickflip with my prius down a 50' embankment was the final straw. I sold all my tanks except for the 45-f, the true love of my aquaria life, and a 40 breeder that only managed to survive because taking it down would be more trouble than it was worth. I avoided the hobby for a few months, partly due to the crushing ennui it now inspired in me, but also because I got wrapped up in a new job. Then, one day a few weeks ago my mother uttered the fateful words that would see me being dragged kicking and screaming (Frank can attest to this) back in.

"I'd really like another small tank in my room." She said, staring at the 40 breeder ponderously. 

(The "small tank" she was referring to was the old Mini-M that I had set up for her about 2 years ago as a birthday/mothers day gift, and had torn down in my great tank purge. She had lost interest in having it, I'd lost interest in caring for it, it's time had come)

I'm not going to lie, my initial reaction was something akin to this. 

"But I'm out of the hobby!" I agonized to myself. "I don't want to deal with another tank!" "Well, maybe just a small one, if only I hadn't sold the mini-s..."

It's true, I had indeed sold the Mini-S, this exact Mini-S in fact, a few months back. I had waffled on the decision, but it came down to getting rid of either the -S or the -f, and the -f is going to win that battle every time. As fate would have it though, it turns out the guy I sold it to had never set it up, and graciously agreed to sell it back to me.

And with that, I had a tank.


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## somewhatshocked

This sort of teasing is unfair. 

NEED MORE PICTURES!


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## douten

Great to see you jumping back in! (said the guy who's been around a week)
It's like an addiction :hihi:
The tank's looking great atm too~


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## Dollface

I have a confession to make.

I hate manzanita. Absolutely abhor it. My back yard is nothing but manzanita for miles, it gets old. I hate scaping with it too, it's just so ... manzanita-y. Don't even get me started on the word "Manzy" either. 

My mother, on the other hand, loves it. She specifically requested a tank with manzanita, and the scape that eventually became the mini-M went through about 4 different incarnations, all involving manzanita. I even asked my dad to make a custom ADA style stand with wood veneer stained to match, you guessed it, the color of manzanita.

So the prospect of setting up yet another tank with yet still more manzanita was, well, yeah.

"I hate manzanita" I bemoaned to Frank. (Yes, that Frank, ADG Frank. Why he still puts up with me, I don't know.) "I don't want to do another low tech with java ferns."

"So why don't you do an Iwagumi for yourself?"


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## sayurasem

Full Tank Shot from the front please


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## Dollface

sayurasem said:


> Full Tank Shot from the front please












:flick:


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## mcqueenesq

All right, show us how it's done! Glad you survived your Toonces episode and glad you're back. I hope you find some peace in the water.


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## Dollface

"But the 45-f is my tank."

"So set up that one!" 

"Are you going to smuggle me in a WK for it?"

Alas, the answer was no, but you can't blame me for trying. One day, I will have a magical japanese plant ball of my own, but today (or rather, two weeks ago) was not that day. Frank did clue me in about his latest project, though, the tank that would become the subject of his ongoing Mini-M journal. He described some of his experiences with the ADA line and at the ADG gallery, his plans for the tank, the kind of techniques he wanted to share through the journal. He sold me on the system, on setting up my own tank, and I bought it.

Boy did I buy it.


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## amphirion

hahahaha! HOW COULD YOU HATE MANZANTIA!? I LOVE IT SOOOOO MUCH!

anywho, glad to see you working on a tank project! looking forward to seeing your progress!


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## freph

I feel that the picture of you holding a single portion of HC in pincettes deserves some sort of awesome caption. Just sayin'.


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## Dollface

amphirion said:


> hahahaha! HOW COULD YOU HATE MANZANTIA!? I LOVE IT SOOOOO MUCH!
> 
> anywho, glad to see you working on a tank project! looking forward to seeing your progress!


Do you want it? Please, take it. I don't think I can handle any more twigs. 



freph said:


> I feel that the picture of you holding a single portion of HC in pincettes deserves some sort of awesome caption. Just sayin'.


Feel free to come up with something, I'm terrible at photo titles.


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## Dollface

Okay, to be honest, my patience for narrating is kind of petering out, and I don't have any more particularly artsy low depth of field shots to string you along with, so here's the finalized hardscape prior to planting.










I'll have with-water photos for you tomorrow, along with some details about the set up.


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## FlyingGiraffes

Looks great. Gonna put this on sfbaaps?


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## Dollface

*Day 1*

Not much going on here, honestly. Today I'll be starting the maintenance routine as described in Franks' Mini-M thread, daily water changes for the first week, beginning to dose with Green Bacter, then Brighty K, and finally Step 1, but I'll get to that later. Right now, I'm honestly just enjoying the tank being up. I actually set it up last night, and it was kind of amazing watching the HC already pearling only an hour or two after I had filled and set up the Advance system. 

If I had to give up everything but one part of this system, I'd keep the advance. Every single piece of the ADA equipment is a work of art in itself, but the advance system is where the combination of craftsmanship, functionality, and aesthetics really shines. It literally took me all of 5 minutes to hook everything up, it was as simple as screwing on the regulator to the cartridge, attaching the ball valve, and then running the tubing to the check valve, bubble counter, and finally the do!aqua music glass mini 15 that I'm using in place of the one that comes standard.

The decidedly non-ADA point and shoot off to the side is for a time lapse, which is something I've wanted to do with a tank for a while now. It's rigged up on mini tripod twist tied to the rack stand. It's not the greatest quality, but it should get the job done.


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## Francis Xavier

The time lapse will be very cool!


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## freph

Ooh. I like this. Can't wait to see it fill in. Any other plant ideas or just a nice, lush carpet of HC?


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## Dollface

freph said:


> Ooh. I like this. Can't wait to see it fill in. Any other plant ideas or just a nice, lush carpet of HC?


Just HC, this is my first time growing it seriously so it's going to be a learning experience. I may add some hair grass in the future, but we'll see.


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## freph

Pretty easy plant to grow imo...once it gets rooted well it takes off. Good light and CO2/Excel made it go weed mode for me. Ime trimming should be avoided until it gets about 1/2-3/4" tall and rooted otherwise you just end up pulling out plants by accident and that's always frustrating. You might have a different experience than I did but a few friendly tips never hurt anyone.


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## Francis Xavier

Dollface is taking a very, very wise approach growing just a plant at a time here, I must say. 

The reason is, now she can master the growth patterns and tendencies of HC (now she's already mastered hair grass), so next time she does a lay out she'll be able to do all sorts of really cool things really easily with HC + hair grass. 

I've also got to say, that's a great stone arrangement. This is the first I've seen it with slope.

I can visualize now how the HC will slope over the rocks from behind and create some badass back drop to the front.


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## Dollface

Midway through the first water change, the tint of the water was even more noticeable in real life.

PS: Whoever said that green bacter smelled like barbecue is right. I should probably eat before water changes from now on.


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## Dollface

*Day 2*

Post water change. I managed to clumsily disturb some of the substrate in the front which dislodged some of the HC, so in the future I'm going to stick to draining with airline tubing. Still not much going on, I'm kind of amazing that frank manages to write three paragraph posts about a 5 minute water change, honestly. The only thing I really have to note is how much I love these mini- pipes. The flow is just perfection. I'm never going back to a spray bar, or a filter without quick disconnects for that matter.


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## ADAtank

setup looks good I would take out maybe a rock or two but its not bad


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## Dollface

I intended for most of the rocks to be obscured once the HC grows in. Plus it'd be kind of hard to just "take out" any of the rocks without destroying the scape.


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## Dollface

Speaking of the scape, I may as well show some progress shots of how it came together. Some of these are from my camera phone, so it's not quite DSLR pretty, and boy I wish I had cleaned my living room last week now...









I struggled for a while because I was essentially going backwards. I had this secondary stone placed first, and I tried to work all the other stones around that.

That was stupid. Don't do that. 









After cycling through a few different variations, I settled on this. A final picture was starting to come together in my mind, but again, trying to work around the secondary stone was messing me up. It competed with the main stone rather than supported it, and don't even get me started on the right hand side. It didn't have nearly enough "weight", and the stone would've been almost completely obscured with a full carpet of HC.









Here's the closest picture I have to the final scape. I changed out the secondary stone, but now it just didn't have enough, well, oomph. What I ended up doing was using the stone from the previous scapes, but turned around in a different position. The stone directly beneath the main stone is mostly for added height and support, otherwise it tended to sink down, diminishing its presence. It's going to be almost entirely obscured once the carpet grows in.

Really, this process taught me a lot of things. Most of all though is the importance of a slope. I was working with maybe 1/3 the volume of substrate than I have in the tank now, and it showed. Most of the scapes ended up terribly flat and it was incredibly frustrating. The added variation in height and depth can definitely make or break a scape.


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## ikuzo

happens to me too recently
slopes go down a lot when you fill the water
i used 10 kg of substrate for a 10 gallon tank and it looks like i just use 5 kg 

i kinda like the second pic where the secondary rock is bigger


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## FlyingHellFish

Dumb question, what stones are those? How do you keep the slope with the stones like that?

Oh and why doesn't your ADA tank have the new sticker?


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## Dollface

It actually a mix of Seiryu and Ryuoh. Aquasoil is pretty good at maintaining even an extreme slope as long as you don't disturb it, but I also have a 1" base of powersand in the back that helps.

I got the mini-s before they changed the logo.


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## Dollface

I had some surface film this morning, so I decided to lower the water level prior to my water change to try and break it up. This is the flow from the mini pipes that I was talking about, it's pretty nice. I noticed however that the back right corner where the intake is situated seems to be blocked off by the main rock. The bulk of the outflow blows across the front of the tank, and then gets trapped in a sort of vortex in the left side before getting pushed back down across the front of the tank in the opposite direction, then around towards the inflow. I may mock up a diagram later to show what I'm talking about. It's definitely affecting the co2 distribution. The left side visibly pearls much more, slowly dropping off towards the front right corner, while that back right has almost no activity at all. It's not a major problem at the moment but I'll definitely have to tweak my filter positioning at some point in the future to maintain even growth. 

I gotta say, after seeing it in action, Frank's post on the subject makes a lot more sense.


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## Dollface

*Day 3*

Post water change, Can you tell I'm getting tired of front facing FTS? This is the angle that I view the tank from the most, so I figured I'd show that. Like I mentioned previously, I had some surface scum, but lowering the water level took care of that pretty quickly. Tomorrow, I start dosing Brighty K.


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## frrok

this looks awesome, im learning so much from all these ada journals. thanks!


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## Dollface

You're welcome! I'm glad that you're able to take something away from them.


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## cawolf86

Looking great! When you filled did a lot of HC come uprooted? The main reason I am currently doing a dry start is because I was fearful of that - maybe I didn't plant deep enough....


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## Geniusdudekiran

Silly question Dollface, but do you know if that is the new ADA sticker or the old one? Love the tank, btw


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## Dollface

cawolf86 said:


> Looking great! When you filled did a lot of HC come uprooted? The main reason I am currently doing a dry start is because I was fearful of that - maybe I didn't plant deep enough....


I didn't have a single piece uproot on fill up. Aquasoil actually holds plants extremely well, especially when damp/saturated, as long as you're planting deep enough. For HC, though, deep enough is a minimum of 1/4", with a good pair of fine tipped pincettes, it shouldn't be a problem at all.



Geniusdudekiran said:


> Silly question Dollface, but do you know if that is the new ADA sticker or the old one? Love the tank, btw


My tank has the old one. The solar does as well, all the other equipment has the new logo, though, it's kind of funny.


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## freph

The tank is absolutely beautiful and it isn't even grown in yet...I'm impressed. http://i.imgur.com/JFga6.jpg pops for me. I love it. Can never have too many pictures btw. Keep them coming! Also, what're the filter specs? Model/media/setup/etc.


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## Geniusdudekiran

Dollface said:


> My tank has the old one. The solar does as well, all the other equipment has the new logo, though, it's kind of funny.


Cool, thanks. I like the old one better then, lol. I feel like they ran the old one over with a semi truck and got the current/new one, lol

For the timelapse, you're not taking _constant video_, are you? Or just a picture a day?


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## Dollface

freph said:


> The tank is absolutely beautiful and it isn't even grown in yet...I'm impressed. http://i.imgur.com/JFga6.jpg pops for me. I love it. Can never have too many pictures btw. Keep them coming! Also, what're the filter specs? Model/media/setup/etc.


I'm running a 2211 with the ada mini pipes, with the stock package of bio rings, and then 750ml of NA carbon, as advised by Frank for the first month. I have the flow restricted by about 1/4 turn on the intake quick disconnect right now, just to avoid blowing anything around (though even at full blast, that's not really a problem)

Man, that NA carbon though, it was just ridiculous. I haven't used carbon for a while, so I'm not sure if I had just blocked it from my memory, or if the NA carbon is just really bad, but washing that stuff out was _horrifying._ The water ran solid jet black for almost a minute, and it took almost a dozen rinses to get to the point where the water wasn't visibly stained against my white utility sink. If you've ever dyed your hair with semi-perm color (weird analogy here, but stay with me), especially sfx, the instructions tell you to "rinse with cool water until water runs clear", which is LIES, The water never runs clear. I sat with my head under a faucet for 15 minutes last month with I dyed my hair purple, and it still looked like I was bleeding grape koolaid. That's what washing NA carbon felt like. It was endless.


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## freph

Well, as long as it isn't as bad as washing out playsand then I'll be fine. That was rather horrifying.


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## Dollface

Geniusdudekiran said:


> Cool, thanks. I like the old one better then, lol. I feel like they ran the old one over with a semi truck and got the current/new one, lol
> 
> For the timelapse, you're not taking _constant video_, are you? Or just a picture a day?


The new one isn't exactly my favorite either, but it's growing on me, I guess.

I'm actually taking about 6-10 photos per day at different intervals, I'll probably only use half of those, though. 



freph said:


> Well, as long as it isn't as bad as washing out playsand then I'll be fine. That was rather horrifying.


Play sand. Eurgh. Never again.


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## Geniusdudekiran

Dollface said:


> The new one isn't exactly my favorite either, but it's growing on me, I guess.
> 
> I'm actually taking about 6-10 photos per day at different intervals, I'll probably only use half of those, though.


Can't wait to see that.


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## freph

What bubble counter is that btw?


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## Dollface

It's the ADA glass bubble counter.


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## freph

$52? Yikes....do you feel it's worth it vs a generic one?


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## Dollface

I haven't had and other bubble counters to compare it to, but I've had many other pieces of generic glassware and compared to their ada counterparts ... well, there almost is no comparison. I've had extremely wide variations in quality of generic glassware, either the glass itself is extremely thin, or it's overly thick, or there's defects, etc. Every piece of ADA glassware I've seen has been flawless and feels sturdy in your hand. My only issue with this drop checker tbh is I wish that it was shorter, since I'm running it with a do!aqua diffuser that extends over the side of the tank and not the standard one. If I had to buy a drop checker separately (this one came with the advance system), I'd actually consider picking up the do!aqua music counter, even though I find it kind of silly looking.


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## freph

I'll admit...it's very aesthetically pleasing however I'll have have to think on whether or not it's worth the $52 dollars for it. The Do!aqua one does look quite awkward though.


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## Dollface

ADA's co2 glassware is some of the best, really, definitely worth saving up for.


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## frrok

I like the new sticker. 

If I had the money, I'd buy the ADA glassware. It's like, if you won the lotto, would you buy a toyota or a Ferrari. I'm big on quality.


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## Francis Xavier

Dollface said:


>


This scape is interesting because the three primary stones make up a formation that is nearly three main stones together. Of course the two secondary stones on the left and right are slightly smaller than the main stone, but the formation together creates a more dramatic impression.

For example, on both the left and right the angles on the stones is nearly 45 degrees. 

Which means, it will rely on HC overgrowth to soften the angles to make it more passive, and the intended focal point is very clearly on the left. The small stones front and center should inevitably be covered by HC and become obscured. 

In pictures, the slope doesn't look all that dramatic; but in person I'm sure it's similar to mine where the slope actually goes up really high in the back.

I can't help but think that this layout will require a lot of detail-orientation, which is a good thing. Great scapes are made in the details, not in the macro.

While the clear intended focal is on the left, my favorite part of the tank is actually the relationship between the main stone and the secondary stone on the right. That formation is the best execution of rock-work in the whole scape and maintains the direction of the scape moving to the top right. Consequently, this also makes the focal point more jarring on the left (every other stone in the layout is pointed to the upper right, where as the left secondary stone is going the opposite direction). 

I would say that long-term I could foresee the addition of some hair grass around the main stone, notably on the left hand side, but I also say that this particular scape is well suited for a singular carpet of HC, considering it's tendency to mound up.

Otherwise, this scape has Dollface written all over it.


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## al4n

Awesome layout, can't wait til the hc has grown in few months later.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Francis Xavier

I found Dollface's favorite aquascape:


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## Dollface

Francis Xavier said:


> Otherwise, this scape has Dollface written all over it.


What, because it's jarring and dramatic? :hihi:



Francis Xavier said:


> I found Dollface's favorite aquascape:


The main stone could be 20% smaller, tbh. :icon_roll


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## alfalfa

Dollface said:


> I have the flow restricted by about 1/4 turn on the intake quick disconnect right now, just to avoid blowing anything around


Is it ok to restrict the intake? I thought that was a no-no.


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## Chlorophile

Dollface said:


> *Day 2*
> 
> Post water change. I managed to clumsily disturb some of the substrate in the front which dislodged some of the HC, so in the future I'm going to stick to draining with airline tubing. Still not much going on, I'm kind of amazing that frank manages to write three paragraph posts about a 5 minute water change, honestly. The only thing I really have to note is how much I love these mini- pipes. The flow is just perfection. I'm never going back to a spray bar, *or a filter without quick disconnects for that matter.*


Having lily pipes, a spring washer and quick disconnects is my favorite thing about my aquarium. 
Everytime it is time to clean the pipes I get excited about how easy it is going to be to just turn 4 little knobs and be able to take the lily pipes and upper hose portion to the kitchen sink.


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## mluk27

I think this scape will look great once the HC carpets nice and thick! I am looking forward to how this tank looks grown in.

Thats a cute cat in your avatar is it yours?


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## Dollface

*Day 4*

Notice there's no picture today? Yeah. Today is the reason that you should never try to rush tank maintenance. During my water change today I managed to refill too quickly, and blew some aquasoil out from between the main rock, uprooting some bunches of HC. I'll fix it during my water change tomorrow, but in the meantime, arrggghhhh.


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## houseofcards

That's a nice layout overall. My impression is (might be the photo) is that adding more AS to the areas between the main and secondary rocks will involve the substrate more into the scape and give it more of a cohesive feeling and continuity between the main and secondary rocks under the substrate level. This will allow more green between the stones instead of them touching each other above the substrate level. Again just my impression otherwise a nice design.


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## freph

Rushing is baaaaaaaaaaad. Unless you have the proper water changer to do so with. Never underestimate the power of water flowing through even the tiniest tube and the ability of HC to uproot at the slightest disturbance.


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## Dollface

*Day ... 5?*

We now return to our regularly scheduled photography. Can you tell where I messed up? Frank was asking me how I felt about maintenance earlier and my exact words were "I am so ready to be done with daily water changes". I hate water changes, always have, always will, I don't think any amount of ADA zen is going to change that. Unless they made a magic water change tube you could hook over the side of your tank to drain the water with, it'd probably be made of glass, or stainless steel, and cost like 50$, but darn it _I'd buy it._ That's how much I hate water changes.

Anyway, I started dosing brighty K yesterday in addition to the delicious hickory smoked flavor Green Bacter, and I start dosing Step 1 at the end of the week. Some emersed HC growth has started to melt off in some places, so I'll have to siphon out with some airline tubing tomorrow.


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## frrok

I hate water changes also. I don't have a python or watever and I always wind up getting wet. I hate buckets! Oh I can't tell where you messed up. Looks slick to me...


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## plantbrain

If you hate water changes, then a dry start method is a lot wiser for the 1st-1-2 month phase.

No algae either.


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## Chlorophile

plantbrain said:


> If you hate water changes, then a dry start method is a lot wiser for the 1st-1-2 month phase.
> 
> No algae either.


+1 roud:


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## Dollface

plantbrain said:


> If you hate water changes, then a dry start method is a lot wiser for the 1st-1-2 month phase.
> 
> No algae either.


So I can be bored for 3 months, and then have to do all those water changes anyway once I fill? No thanks. If growing UG for three years taught me anything, it's that emersed is fine for growing plants to sell, but not for display.


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## Francis Xavier

Water changes are annoying. Fact is, to get to a point of the "zen water change," state of mind. It requires skill through repetition and understanding the true beneficial process of doing them. Once you are able to make the mind shift from "water changes are annoying" to "water changes are enjoyable" a whole new world opens up for you. 

But, to be honest: it takes time and it takes repeat success. So I can sympathize greatly with Dollface's feeling at this point about the water change. It seems odd when you're starting out that water changes will become something immensely enjoyable. In fact, it seems far fetched!

You'll have to trust me on my word that when you get to the other side of the mind set, it completely changes your perspective. _You'll actually want to spend more time tinkering with your aquarium._

*A word on dry start

*I used to be a proponent of the dry start method. In fact, I did quite a few aquascapes that way. It works quite well for farms and even for single carpet layouts.

Had you asked me in 2008-2009 what I would recommend to start an aquarium, I would have said in a heart beat: start it emmersed.
_
These would have also been the words of a novice. _

In the end, just filling her up from the start has lead to consistently more successful and intricate layouts. The issue I discovered with the dry start is that you basically were limited to different growth patterns of many plants while emmersed vs. submerged, so that when you filled up the tank finally, after waiting for things to carpet out, you ended up going through a cycle of:

Wait wait wait wait while the layout fleshes itself out. Fill. Watch the carpet die back, dose h202 to get rid of algae that then pops up during the transition, then wait longer while the plants recover. 

In the end, the discipline of the water change, learning to deal with whatever minor algae you encounter, and properly growing out the plants to fit your vision from the get go is infinitely more valuable and gets you where you're goin quicker. 

We focus a lot on the plants here - for good reason: it's a source of our passion. Otherwise we'd be on whateverelse.net forums.

But, a major component of enjoying the aquariums is not only the plants, but also the fish! It's amazingly more satisfying to have the whole picture come together in one-two months as opposed to extending out your wait time to enjoy the tank.

In this case, it's not an issue of _can_ you do it emmersed, but rather _should you do it._ What do you want out of it? It's somewhat of a joke amongst professionals: hobbyists that learn to grow things emmersed do it to sell plants, those that learn to grow them submersed do it to enjoy the hobby.


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## houseofcards

In most situations you can combine a water change with basic tank maintenance so your not really doing an extra task with the WC. For example if your trimming any dead leaves and/or moving things a bit you can simply suck everything out with a 1/2" hose. With a nano that would literally take two minutes.


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## Chlorophile

Francis Xavier said:


> Water changes are annoying. Fact is, to get to a point of the "zen water change," state of mind. It requires skill through repetition and understanding the true beneficial process of doing them. Once you are able to make the mind shift from "water changes are annoying" to "water changes are enjoyable" a whole new world opens up for you.
> 
> But, to be honest: it takes time and it takes repeat success. So I can sympathize greatly with Dollface's feeling at this point about the water change. It seems odd when you're starting out that water changes will become something immensely enjoyable. In fact, it seems far fetched!
> 
> You'll have to trust me on my word that when you get to the other side of the mind set, it completely changes your perspective. _You'll actually want to spend more time tinkering with your aquarium._
> 
> *A word on dry start
> 
> *I used to be a proponent of the dry start method. In fact, I did quite a few aquascapes that way. It works quite well for farms and even for single carpet layouts.
> 
> Had you asked me in 2008-2009 what I would recommend to start an aquarium, I would have said in a heart beat: start it emmersed.
> _
> These would have also been the words of a novice. _
> 
> In the end, just filling her up from the start has lead to consistently more successful and intricate layouts. The issue I discovered with the dry start is that you basically were limited to different growth patterns of many plants while emmersed vs. submerged, so that when you filled up the tank finally, after waiting for things to carpet out, you ended up going through a cycle of:
> 
> Wait wait wait wait while the layout fleshes itself out. Fill. Watch the carpet die back, dose h202 to get rid of algae that then pops up during the transition, then wait longer while the plants recover.
> 
> In the end, the discipline of the water change, learning to deal with whatever minor algae you encounter, and properly growing out the plants to fit your vision from the get go is infinitely more valuable and gets you where you're goin quicker.
> 
> We focus a lot on the plants here - for good reason: it's a source of our passion. Otherwise we'd be on whateverelse.net forums.
> 
> But, a major component of enjoying the aquariums is not only the plants, but also the fish! It's amazingly more satisfying to have the whole picture come together in one-two months as opposed to extending out your wait time to enjoy the tank.
> 
> In this case, it's not an issue of _can_ you do it emmersed, but rather _should you do it._ What do you want out of it? It's somewhat of a joke amongst professionals: hobbyists that learn to grow things emmersed do it to sell plants, those that learn to grow them submersed do it to enjoy the hobby.


Ooo burn! :angryfire

I really could care less about fish, to me it is just a bonus.
Honestly I don't approve of keeping any fish in a Mini M or smaller, Oto's or a Beta, but that is about it. 


The thing in my opinion about the dry start is that you can balance it however you want.

I did 27 days of dry start, but guess what, I am a busy person and it was very suited to my schedule. 

My first iwagumi attempt was characterized by impatience. 
I flooded the tank straight away, algae abound, rhizoclonium completely took over, everything dead in a couple days. 

So then attempt #2 came around and I was disillusioned from my last failure and even more busy than I am now, I did a dry start for 3 months. Flooded the tank and voila, no algae, no dieback(never actually experienced dieback before, but like I've said I hate wasting Rubisco so I keep my co2 a lot higher than most people do) and yea, *it was kind of boring.*
The main drawback is that I had looked at the tank dry for 3 months, now with nothing left to do but trim there was no value in the aquascape for me anymore, I tore it down a month later. 


I will never reach a state of zen with water changes. 
I tolerate them, they are easy on the Mini-M... I can put my knee on a chair and rest a half full 5 gallon bucket on my knee and siphon the water into the tank, done, no big deal.
I don't like it though, I just know it is a good and healthy part of aquarium keeping.
I couldn't stand doing them every day though. 
To me "it's not an issue of _can_ I do water changes every day, but rather _should I?_"

The final reasoning for my drystart is that I always ruin the slope of my Iwagumi when planting the HC, even if I plant it dry I ruin the slope. 
So my solution is to just sprinkle HC cuttings on the aquasoil and keep the humidy at 100 percent to prevent transpiration which would prevent the sprinkling method from working successfully. 
(I got the idea one day while doing tomato grafts, after which I was to keep the humidty in the sealed container at 100 percent and maintain a temperature of 82f)
By sprinkling the HC the slope stayed exactly as I wanted it. 


I do love trimming, I love cleaning my lily-pipes, I love dosing, I love replanting stems... I just don't love water changes. That is just me though.


----------



## freph

Chlorophile said:


> I do love trimming, I love cleaning my lily-pipes, I love dosing, I love replanting stems... I just don't love water changes. That is just me though.


I take it HC is your favorite plant? :hihi: I find water changes easy on my 20L with a DIY water changer...drain and let pipes run until it's almost at the inflow, shut off filter/connects and do whatever needs to be done to the tank, hook up to sink and fill it back up while browsing forums etc. I don't even really enjoy it or hate it....it's pretty neutral and second nature at this point.

On topic: Go HC go! I wonder what an ADA water changer would look like...


----------



## Dollface

Chlorophile said:


> Ooo burn! :angryfire
> 
> I really could care less about fish, to me it is just a bonus.
> Honestly I don't approve of keeping any fish in a Mini M or smaller, Oto's or a Beta, but that is about it.
> 
> 
> The thing in my opinion about the dry start is that you can balance it however you want.
> 
> I did 27 days of dry start, but guess what, I am a busy person and it was very suited to my schedule.
> 
> My first iwagumi attempt was characterized by impatience.
> I flooded the tank straight away, algae abound, rhizoclonium completely took over, everything dead in a couple days.
> 
> So then attempt #2 came around and I was disillusioned from my last failure and even more busy than I am now, I did a dry start for 3 months. Flooded the tank and voila, no algae, no dieback(never actually experienced dieback before, but like I've said I hate wasting Rubisco so I keep my co2 a lot higher than most people do) and yea, *it was kind of boring.*
> The main drawback is that I had looked at the tank dry for 3 months, now with nothing left to do but trim there was no value in the aquascape for me anymore, I tore it down a month later.
> 
> 
> I will never reach a state of zen with water changes.
> I tolerate them, they are easy on the Mini-M... I can put my knee on a chair and rest a half full 5 gallon bucket on my knee and siphon the water into the tank, done, no big deal.
> I don't like it though, I just know it is a good and healthy part of aquarium keeping.
> I couldn't stand doing them every day though.
> To me "it's not an issue of _can_ I do water changes every day, but rather _should I?_"
> 
> The final reasoning for my drystart is that I always ruin the slope of my Iwagumi when planting the HC, even if I plant it dry I ruin the slope.
> So my solution is to just sprinkle HC cuttings on the aquasoil and keep the humidy at 100 percent to prevent transpiration which would prevent the sprinkling method from working successfully.
> (I got the idea one day while doing tomato grafts, after which I was to keep the humidty in the sealed container at 100 percent and maintain a temperature of 82f)
> By sprinkling the HC the slope stayed exactly as I wanted it.
> 
> 
> I do love trimming, I love cleaning my lily-pipes, I love dosing, I love replanting stems... I just don't love water changes. That is just me though.


Cool could you not bring your arguments with frank into my journal.

I don't wish to have a discussion on DSM, I personally dislike it and didn't use it for a reason. 

If you want to debate the merits please do so in another thread.


----------



## sayurasem

plantbrain said:


> If you hate water changes, then a dry start method is a lot wiser for the 1st-1-2 month phase.
> 
> No algae either.


Just don't put ferts in your spraying bottle.
I learned the hard way and algae took over my HC carpet while dry start and abort project


----------



## bluestems

*wow!*

That's a gorgeous layout! Will you be putting any fish or shrimp in? It would a haven for shrimp. 

Makes me rethink how big of stones I can put in a nano.


----------



## Dollface

*Day 6*

I had to rush out to work, and then over to a friends show to do some photography, so I wasn't able to update yesterday. Again, not much going on, I did however totally forget to dose as I was leaving. Good job, me.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Looking good!

Given how much HC you have in the aquarium you might want to start with dosing Green Brighty Step 1 every other day with your two day water change schedule.


----------



## Dollface

*Day 7*

How happy am I that this is the final day of daily water changes? So happy. Though I didn't hate it as much today as I did during the middle of the week. I think it may be because I was glad to see the tank again after being out all day yesterday, sort of like how you make up with a significant other after you've gone to cool off after a fight. I may have just called the tank my boy/girlfriend there, but I'll roll with it. 

During the water change, I took the opportunity to wipe the glass down. I haven't had any algae yet but there was some residue building up from the surface film, and aquasoil. I also started dosing Green Brighty step 1 in addition to the green bacter and Brighty K.

So the tank has been up a week, and in that time I've been doing a whole lot of nothing. Well, that's not exactly true, but the changes aren't readily apparent yet. Some of the HC has started to go horizontal, but there's also been a couple sprigs dying off. At this point, I'm kind of wishing that I had started off with more plant mass, but oh well. Hopefully, since the growth has been more apparent in just the past three days, it'll start to become more exponential. 

After a week, I can't say I'm completely sold on the ADA method, though the start up period has seemed to go a little smoother than previous tanks. Week 2 will be a much better indicator since that's when I usually start to see issues. My tanks are particularly prone to diatoms and GDA, but that's using tap water, in this tank I've been using pure ro/di at franks recommendation.


----------



## Dollface

Francis Xavier said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Given how much HC you have in the aquarium you might want to start with dosing Green Brighty Step 1 every other day with your two day water change schedule.


Cool, thanks for the tip. At what point would you say I should step it up to the normal once a day dosing?


----------



## Francis Xavier

Dollface said:


> Cool, thanks for the tip. At what point would you say I should step it up to the normal once a day dosing?


It's kind of a "feel it out" type scenario here, if the growth starts kicking in (which it should as HC starts to get started in the second week), then I'd say next week start going every day with it.

Here's a good example of fine line dosing when you are starting relatively sparsely.


----------



## Dollface

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say that I am thoroughly unimpressed with this april fools day joke.


----------



## freph

Dollface said:


> I'd just like to take this opportunity to say that I am thoroughly unimpressed with this april fools day joke.


Agreed.  On a positive note, at least your tank looks good.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Dollface said:


> I'd just like to take this opportunity to say that I am thoroughly unimpressed with this april fools day joke.


Did I miss something?


----------



## m8e

Francis Xavier said:


> Did I miss something?


Star Wars...
R2D2 = nano
Palpatineed = planted (Palpatine = plant ?)
Tatoine = tank
Lightsabering = lighting (Lightsaber = light ?)
Lightsaber = led 
Ewok = fish
Jawa = Shrimp
Alderaan = algae
Wookie = water
naboo = coral
etc.


----------



## shrimpster

rofl....I thought my computer had picked up a virus :icon_surp.

on topic: love how you are honest w/your feelings about h20 changes. I often feel the same way. I also completely agree w/Frank tho. 

In my work mundane tasks are often the ones performed most often. If one can find a way to view it in a positive way (ie, my tank is going to look so nice after this) the enjoyment of the tasks one does like will increase exponentially. 

Likewise, mundane tasks approached w/dislike will dilute the total experience to the point where one might wonder: why oh why am I doing this?

For me wiring my bonsai almost killed my love of the bonsai itself. It hurt my fingers and I felt I broke branches too often. My sensei said: do not worry keep your plants healthy and growing and any "mistakes" will only add character and age--which is what bonsai is all about. wow. That took all the pressure off. To this day I am not in "love" w/wiring, but I focus on the results and that has allowed me continued enjoyment.


I am really enjoying the landscape you've created. I feel the need to travel up the valley and through the pass to see what's on the other side. My imagination has been fueled, my curiosity peaked. Very nice.


----------



## Dollface

*Day 9*

I skipped Day 8 because it wasn't a water change day (hooray!) and I was out for most of the day as well. Today, however, I have the first signs of algae to report. Diatoms have appeared seemingly right on time, along with some strange filamentous algae near the front of the glass. I lowered the water to almost the front substrate line during the water change, and let it breath for a couple minutes.

I still haven't done any testing, but I may do that tomorrow to judge how soon I'll be able to add amanos. 

Dosing is still green bacter, Brighty K, Step 1 every other day with water changes, and yesterday I added a spoonful of penac as a KH booster.


----------



## Dollface

*Day 10*

I feel icky even posting this, but here you go. 










Yep, just, yep. 

Basically, I am kicking myself right now. It's become obvious at this point that I should have started with WAY more HC, at least double the plant mass. As it stands right now, the HC is just kind of struggling along, there's definitely growth, but the diatoms have me worried, to be honest. I basically made one of the biggest newb mistakes, and now I'm paying for it. 

Logically, I knew that diatoms were inevitable, but that really hasn't stopped my stomach from curdling a little and my spirits from dropping now that they're kicking in in full force. That first week of water changes were annoying, sure, but to have it seemingly pay off in, what, this nasty brown crude that's now permeating the tank? It sucks, man. 

So I sat down this morning and manually removed what I could with airline tubing. The diatoms are plastered on, but I managed to get some of the stringy stuff off the substrate, and some more dead plant matter. I have a feeling it did more for my mood than the tank, but sometimes you need that kind of placebo I guess.


----------



## freph

As long as you're removing algae and dead plant matter then you're at least being productive. You can either manually scrub off the diatoms or wait til the water is safe enough to add otos... Poor HC though. Looks like it's taking quite a beating.  At least the new growth looks healthy, though.

Edit: Picture works, post modified to reflect that.


----------



## Francis Xavier

You won't have to worry too much about Diatoms, just remove enough manually so they don't become a bed for something else. Amano's devour this stuff.


----------



## Dollface

My usual view again, or the I'm-too-lazy-to-get-up-from-the-couch shot.


----------



## frrok

Dollface said:


> My usual view again, or the I'm-too-lazy-to-get-up-from-the-couch shot.


what kind of stand is that? thinking of getting something cheap for when i move for my mini-m. going crazy trying to find something. right now i have it on an ikea dresser...that is ummm warping to say the least. I love that angle btw...


----------



## SimonC

Beautiful tank you got there.


----------



## freph

frrok said:


> what kind of stand is that? thinking of getting something cheap for when i move for my mini-m. going crazy trying to find something. right now i have it on an ikea dresser...that is ummm warping to say the least. I love that angle btw...


Looks like one of those general-use steel ones from Home Depot/Walmart/etc.


----------



## Dollface

frrok said:


> what kind of stand is that? thinking of getting something cheap for when i move for my mini-m. going crazy trying to find something. right now i have it on an ikea dresser...that is ummm warping to say the least. I love that angle btw...


It's This shelving unit, supposedly each shelf can hold 250lbs, which I kinda doubt as I'm... less, and I wouldn't feel comfortable climbing on the thing, but it held a full Mini-M on the top shelf for over a year without a problem.

It's only 30$ and looks pretty cool if you're into that ~industrial~ aesthetic. You can't really hide anything in it, though. Thankfully my stand-clutter is now almost entirely ADA clutter, which looks slightly better than normal clutter, sorta.


----------



## freph

Mmmm ADA clutter. The best kind of clutter. My "maintenance stand" has a bit of everything on it. Random fert bags, food bags, microfiber cloths, some root tabs, dosing spoons, excel, co2 tanks, old Folger's coffee can with pens/pencils in it....CO2 bottle with a regulator on it for the tank, filter on the bottom shelf with a reactor hooked up to it. Power strip drilled into the side of the shelf. Clutter king right here. :hihi: I like the logic of as long as I know where it is I don't feel the need to organize it too much.


----------



## frrok

Dollface said:


> It's This shelving unit, supposedly each shelf can hold 250lbs, which I kinda doubt as I'm... less, and I wouldn't feel comfortable climbing on the thing, but it held a full Mini-M on the top shelf for over a year without a problem.
> 
> It's only 30$ and looks pretty cool if you're into that ~industrial~ aesthetic. You can't really hide anything in it, though. Thankfully my stand-clutter is now almost entirely ADA clutter, which looks slightly better than normal clutter, sorta.


Yea, I dont really mind not hiding it..for now. I just need something cuz I doubt the dresser is coming over with the move. thanks for the link!


----------



## Dollface

*Day 11*

Man I had a big post written out with some hilarious anecdotes and really touching prose about my emotions buuuttt I accidentally clicked away and hell if I'm writing that out again.

I tested yesterday, my ammonia levels were at such a negligible amount that I felt comfortable adding some amanos last night, because those guys are nothing if not impervious to basically everything. 

Also because I really hated the diatoms.









Algae? Psssshhh, what algae? No algae here, nope. Nada, zip, zilch, ze-ro.

Also, here's an example of why I should have started with more plant mass, and the flow and distribution of CO2 in action:








This is the healthiest patch of HC in the entire tank, honestly. Tucked in the back left corner it's directly in the path of the most co2 laden flow, and I also started out with a much larger bunch during the initial planting, and it definitely paid off. 

*Moral of the story?* I was stupid. Don't be me, start with way more plants than you think you need.


----------



## freph

Yay amanos.  Good to see that they solved your algae issue. Any plans of trimming off the browned leaves or just going to let them detach on their own so you don't disturb the HC too much?

Also, I definitely think you should release a food line of Dollface's own Green Bacter marinated ribs (Tom made a joke about it in Frank's journal). :hihi:


----------



## FlyingGiraffes

Unleash the kraken? Is this a HoN reference? o.o


----------



## Dollface

freph said:


> Yay amanos.  Good to see that they solved your algae issue. Any plans of trimming off the browned leaves or just going to let them detach on their own so you don't disturb the HC too much?
> 
> *Also, I definitely think you should release a food line of Dollface's own Green Bacter marinated ribs* (Tom made a joke about it in Frank's journal). :hihi:


Way ahead of you.


----------



## Dollface

*Day 12*










Apparently I was physically incapable of taking a straight-on FTS today so I just kind of gave up. Everything was either a little skewed to the left, a little skewed to the right... You'll have to ignore the water level for a bit, I kind of ... ran out of RO. 

Anyway, I sat down this morning and got to the task of doing my part to clean up the HC. I removed whatever dead material that I could with airline tubing, replanted any healthy sprigs that uprooted, trimmed off any leftover dying leaves, etc. Honestly? It feels kind of futile, since I seem to be removing more than is growing, but at least it's growing. I might break down here next week and go get another portion of HC, even though that kind of seems like cheating.

Today was the first day I really got to use the do!aqua S curve scissors however and, well, they're just so _nice_. The quality is leaps and bounds over my other generic scissors, the biggest difference being that the do!aqua's feel much weightier and more comfortable in my hand. The cutting action is much smoother and well. I'll probably be picking up the larger size soon, since the longer tools a little easier for me to use. Trying to contort my hands and wrists around to get to the nooks and crannies around the rocks in that tiny tank with those scissors is basically nigh impossible sometimes. I'll probably also be getting the ADA M and L pincettes too, I have the ADA S, and a Do!Aqua XL, and while I end up favoring the D!A pincettes just because of the length, the ADA ones have a much nicer tip on it.

I rambled about the tools a bit more than intended there, but really, I said that if I had to give up everything but one part of the system, I'd keep the advance? The scissors and pincettes come in a close second. Really, don't ever underestimate the impact of quality tools. I think that they're one of the best investments you can make in actually enjoying your tank.


----------



## mahko

Nothing wrong with buying more HC. I heavily planted my tank when doing a dry start with HC and I'm extremely glad I did. It's completely carpeted (well, maybe around 95%) 6 weeks after planting. 

I'm sure you've seen Amano planting his tanks. Barely any Aquasoil visible when he's done.


----------



## Dollface

*Day 13*

I've had a cold and a migraine today that's sapped all my energy, so no photos, just a text report.

I did a partial water change, not the full 2 gallons that I've been doing because, again, I ran out of R/O. The rocks are covered in diatoms now, which have also started to form some billowing clouds on the substrate. Removing the dead material seems to have helped somewhat as the plants are looking "brighter" today, but that may just be some weird planted tank-centric migraine aura. Some green algae has also appeared on the top most portions of the main rock, but that's not a gigantic deal to me. I actually kind of like the patina it gives the rocks, which apparently makes me weird in the hobby, but that's not exactly new. 

One of the Amanos freaked me out yesterday, it started rolling on its back and basically acted like it was going to keel over at any minute, I shut the co2 off and lowered to water level, thinking it may have been stressed due to that, but nope, turns out it was just molting.


----------



## Dollface

*Day 14*

Can't tank due to Journey.


----------



## plantbrain

Add more HC, in fact, add as much as will possibly fit.

This is an old error many make with foreground plants and HC more than any other, there is so little plant biomass, the best way to get through this stage is to pack the tank with lots of HC to start with.


----------



## Dollface

*Day 15*

Since today was a water change day, and not yesterday, consider this the two week update. It was also time for the two week cleaning, which is totally a thing.

Before: 








(ick)

After:









To be honest, I really don't want to talk about the tank right now. I'm having one of those days where Murphy's Law is in full effect, and it definitely applied to the water change.


----------



## Dollface

I'm probably going to be scaling it back to weekly updates now that the tank is past the two week point. This week the schedule is water changes every two days, but I upped step 1 to every day, since the HC seems to be responding well. It's looking greener, and the diatoms don't seem to be recolonizing it. The main rock sure does look cool right now though:


----------



## somewhatshocked

That algae on the rock looks gorgeous! My absolute favorite part of well-scaped Iwagumi displays.


----------



## mahko

Have you considered adding any oto cats to help with algae? I added 5 to my 60cm tank and with the help of 6 amano shrimp, algae on the rocks/glass were long gone.


----------



## Dollface

I may at some point this week, but I'm hesitant to in such a small tank, especially because I've had some bad luck with otos in the past. I may just get some more amano's and let them do their thing, since I don't particularly care about the rocks.


----------



## A Hill

Do you want some more HC? I have been passively watching your thread for a while and have a good amount floating in my mini m. They're small pieces maybe .5-1cm long that all would be need to be planted individually, but I should have plenty extra once I trim mine and replant some. 

You have a similar scape to mine, so I know how annoying HC can be. I just have a much larger hardscape than I was thinking.

Let me know, 
-Andrew


----------



## Dollface

I think I'm just going to stubbornly try and stick the algae out with what I have. I may be deluding myself, but I think the HC has finally started to rebound now that the tank is coming into balance, the growth (that survived, sob) is looking pretty healthy and there's been some good root development just in the last week. 

Consider this post 1 free coupon to point fingers and laugh at me if the tank takes a dive in a week and all my HC melts off and I end up buying more, though.


----------



## A Hill

Well, let me know if you end up needing more HC. I know how that is and I wasn't looking at a sale, but just for the cost of shipping :hihi:

I throw away too many plants these days.

It'll be bouncing back in no time for sure though.

-Andrew


----------



## Dollface

Whoa, I hate to make an update without a photo, but adding to the growling list of foolishness associated with this tank, starting it on a Friday was a bad idea. I know that sounds silly, but it's true, Fridays are the busiest days of my week usually, with basically zero time for maintenance, and less time for photos and editing. I think I'm going to go out of my way in the future to set tanks up on a Tuesday, when I have nothing else to do. (Seriously, when was the last time you had plans on a Tuesday?)

Speaking of maintenance, I've been putting off doing my first monthly filter cleaning. Frank advised me to change out the NA Carbon for Bio-Rio this week, but again, I barely had time for a water change. I'll be doing it when I get back first thing, however, since I definitely need to take the opportunity to clean the glassware.

The only major thing of note is that, yes, I finally broke down and added some more HC. I'm going to maintain my resolute stubbornness, and say I didn't really need to, as any residual melt off had basically stopped, and the diatoms have moved on to smoother, glassier pastures, but I was dropping off a job application at a fish store, and I figured I might as well pick up some plants anyway. I also took the opportunity to get a bunch of hair grass to add in behind the main rock(s). It arrived from their supplier as minima (is that even a sp?), very short, an inch and a half tops, but it had apparently started growing in their tanks like belem. TBH, I'm going to be perfectly happy with either growth pattern. Visualizing is great and all, but it really does make a difference to have the actual plant in there to really cement it. I'm going to have to aggressively curb the growth initially to make sure it doesn't out compete the HC.


----------



## Dollface

I'm going to preface this entire post with the fact that I am about a bottle and a half of wine in, and my opinions may be tainted with liquor, but *man do I really hate this tank now.*

Nano's are truly the most unforgiving mistress. I've taken refuge lately in the arms of my 40 breeder, a tank with little more than sand and some java fern. It's reached the sublimely blissful stage of bulletproof-ness where you can leave it alone for a good long while, and it's, to continue the weird anthropomorphism I've got going on here, got enough self confidence to carry out without a second thought. It's got it's own life, it's own things to do, it'll survive a month or two without your input.

Nano's are not like that.

Nano's are the demanding girlfriends of the planted tank world. They're the ones who need that daily phone call, have no understanding of "me-time", the ones who wind their way into your very subconscious with their near omnipresence. I wish I was kidding, but I've started having nightmares about this tank crashing. 

The problem is, I really suck at relationships. The tank and I have been having a spat for almost three weeks now, and it's kind of at the point where the tank is no longer talking to me, and I've just been pleading with it to tell me what's wrong. It's a freakin' glass box of dirt and water, though, it can't tell me what's wrong. Most of this, nay, all of this have been my own failings, and right now I just need to suck it up, swallow my pride, and work through it. I started with too little plant matter, I added amano's too early*, on top of trying to blunder my way through growing HC, a plant I've had absolutely no experience with.

To go on a tangent of a tangent, however, I did my first monthly filter maintenance on Tuesday. I scraped the glass of algae (o, the algae), cleaned the filter media, replaced the NA Carbon with Bio Rio, switched the filter input/output to the left side, removed algae, water change, replanted, etc, etc, _etc._ I did not, obviously, clean the pipes, since the ADG order I was planning to make that included a spring washer was delayed because of someone trying to steal my CC number. Ugh. 

And it didn't make a darn bit of difference, really. The tank is still mad at me, I'm mad at myself, and now i've gotta give it another month to see if it'll even out and maybe speak to me again.

*The amanos have taken to obsessively cleaning the substrate, to the point of ignoring the plants, which, okay, w/e, the algae isn't terribly bad on the HC at this point, but they've utterly destroyed the slope around my main rock. I'm about to feed these stupid shrimp to my cats, honestly. I've been having to suction the collapsed substrate out, then replace it around the base of the rock, thereby terribly disturbing the HC. I should have waited until the HC had "anchored" the substrate in place, which would have happened if I had started with more HC. It's a vicious cycle, where one mistake only begets more mistakes.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Drinking red wine and pondering over your tank while the UB-40 "Red wine" music is playing in the background? Who hasn't done that?

I say you just start over, if you're not liking the tank then kick say the hell with it and change it up. I hear you're good with UG, not why just do a carpet of those?


----------



## Dollface

FlyingHellFish said:


> Drinking red wine and pondering over your tank while the UB-40 "Red wine" music is playing in the background? Who hasn't done that?
> 
> I say you just start over, if you're not liking the tank then kick say the hell with it and change it up. I hear you're good with UG, not why just do a carpet of those?


it was actually Riesling with a fromage blanc cheese plate. There wasn't any soundtrack, but considering my taste in music ranges from Bad to Dubstep, it was probably for the best. 

Honestly? I do want to start over. I have somewhat of an obsession with failures, and having a failure on top of a failure on top of a failure building up over the course of this tank annoys me to no end. But I figure it'll be a good life and planted tank lesson to roll with the punches so to speak, and try to rebound from my screw ups. Learning experiences are vastly underrated. And if I can't make it work? Well, hopefully someone will be able to laugh at me, and then learn from my oh-so-lovingly-chronicled mistakes. 

Plus I hate UG. I can't stand it. The flowers are gorgeous, but the submersed growth patterns are just so weird and don't particularly work with anything. Amphiron's torn down 2.5 was honestly the only tank I've ever liked UG in. I can afford to admit that since I'm out of the game, right?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Seriously? You hate UG? It is a gorgeous plant that is a carnivore, like a femme fatale but with a hint of zombie.

I say throw some Bassnectar songs on ye ol' jukebox and go to town on that tank. Show algae and anything else you don't like who the boss is. Once finish, turn to your other tanks and say "Let that be a lesson to the rest of you .....tanks"


----------



## Dollface

Emersed, it's fantastic. It's fascinating, gorgeous, a whole slew of adjectives that are terribly redundant, and the flowers are beautiful. It's been my dream to figure out some way to display the flowering emersed growth for a while, since it's so nice. But submersed, it looses its best qualities and turns into an ungodly, temperamental mess. It gets way too long, the bottom dies out, it's nigh impossible to trim, the roots are so shallow it'll uproot at the blink of an eye... It can be extremely rewarding if you really put the effort into it, and dare I say, get lucky, but I don't have any particular desire to deal with it again after three years of my farm tank.

Plus, it looks terrible with stone. Any stone. That plant is just ... not really suited to Iwagumi at all. It plays much better with driftwood and stems.


----------



## Francis Xavier

I know what you're going through.

It's a frustration that's not quite describable. It kind of makes you want to throw things out the window, smash expensive objects, so on and so forth.

There's just no way around it being a soul-sucking experience.

But, take it from me: I've been in worse spots and I've had more failures than successes. 

In the process of truly learning the planted tank it kind of goes like this:

failure
failure
minor success
failure 
somewhat success
failure
failure
kind of good
failure
failure

And then all of a sudden one day you pull together a layout That's just all-star ridden and all the techniques come together and from there on you have some fairly smooth sailing with similar layouts. 

Then you get to repeat the process for new layout styles, each time you fail less and less and less and succeed more. 

Just for some spot-on inspiration (these are all mine, though some I wish I could not claim) :

Failure:










Somewhat better, but still kind of on fail side of things (first nano) :










Failure, but getting better:










Complete Disaster:










Success:










That turned into sloppy trimming techniques:










Never Saw the Light of Day:










Got a little better at Riccia:










Let's not even talk about this:










*And then, it finally kicked:

*


----------



## Dollface

That 60-p is still one of my favorite iwagumis, man. I'm so sad that it got torn down. 

Anyway, since the -s and I are having issues, I decided to, er, mess around with scaping the 45-f, my one true tank love.










The plan for this one is simple. Moss on DW, This tank is my inspiration.


----------



## darkrainer

Did anybody see Tom Barr's UG that he was selling. Thats how I want the UG that I'm going to put in my tank to look like. But it seems that not much people have luck with it. It is that unforgiving of a plant?!!??!?!


----------



## Dollface

darkrainer said:


> Did anybody see Tom Barr's UG that he was selling. Thats how I want the UG that I'm going to put in my tank to look like. But it seems that not much people have luck with it. It is that unforgiving of a plant?!!??!?!


UG usually needs that kind of high light/co2/ferts tank that Barr has going to look it's best. 

UG's bad reputation comes from the fact that it hates any sort of transition, especially from emersed to submersed which is what a lot of people do. They'll dry start until the carpet fills in, flood the tank, and immediately lose almost everything to melt off. During this phase it requires high light, plentiful CO2 to the point of overdose, and diligent daily water changes of a largeish volume. 

Submersed to submersed is slightly easier, but UG can be especially finicky about drastic changes in water parameters. 

Honestly, once you get it past that stage and spreading, almost nothing can phase it, you just have to keep on top of thinning out the carpet occasionally by pulling and selling chunks, less it uproots itself.


----------



## mluk27

What ferts did you use on your UG Dollface? Im skeptical of dosing certain ferts since UG is a carnivorous plant and carnivorous plants dont like extra nutrients.


----------



## Dollface

I grew it emersed in nutrient rich soil, I didn't dose anything.

People have reported that it responds well to iron dosing, but I haven't really queried it extensively. It doesn't seem to particularly care about water column nutrients, at least not as much as some other plants.


----------



## mluk27

Good to know. Thank you!


----------



## mcqueenesq

The 45-F already looks great, and the rocks are still great in the Mini-M. I'd suggest replanting, but it sounds like you might just need to move on. You could just keep drinking until the two of you develop a begrudging mutual admiration and/or healthy codependency.


----------



## Dollface

mcqueenesq said:


> You could just keep drinking until the two of you develop a begrudging mutual admiration and/or healthy codependency.


I like this plan of action.

Here's another facet of what I'm dealing with through this tank right now, though. My usual process for setting an aquarium up usually goes like this:

Add substrate
Scape
Plant
Fill
Start filter
Walk off to make a cup of tea, don't return for two months.

I've always been terribly apathetic about it, really. I kind of just leave the tank to it's own devices and let it balance out by itself. And it works, to a varying degree, it just takes a while. 

So I honestly never really bothered to develop the skill set for dealing with problems that come along with start up, and now that I am trying to deal with them, it feels like I'm somehow screwing it up even more. 

Really the point of this ramble was that I hope if I just stick it out for another couple months, the tank will balance out despite my bumbling, and I'll have learned something valuable in the meantime. :icon_conf

Speaking of tea, I'm going to make some, and then drape myself over the 45-F while sobbing for it to promise me it won't be like it's sibling when it gets set up.


----------



## Dollface

I just realized that the post above was my 2000th post, and I ended it with the image of me crying over a tank.


I feel like this succinctly summarizes almost my entire hobby experience.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

You guys ever notice that UG clippings start to root if left floating? I took a bunch of them and jam them under my flourite black and now there is horribly looking green spikes near the glass.


----------



## Dollface

UG doesn't really form roots floating, it sometimes comes with hitchhiking U.Gibba though, which looks like kind of a long thread with bladders.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Strange, I took a bunch of clippings and shove them under and then did a tribal dance. Got some nice green baby blades coming up.


----------



## Dollface

Well, idk, you got lucky? I've had individual leaves form roots and begin spreading once planted, but I've never seen/heard of many instances where it was left floating. It's more prone to turn into a scraggly mass if left like that. It doesn't actively try to root and grow like say, HC would if left floating.


----------



## NyteBlade

I hate manzanita too. I think I could live with driftwood if I got the kind that came in one large stump I could plop in, but the manzanita branches are awful. I have to assemble, zip tie, assemble more, falls apart, more zip ties...throw some rocks on, until I have what resembles a disheveled wood pile. My only hope would be to call my tank 'The Logging Camp' and hope it's creative enough to win the IAPLC.

HC always seemed rather touchy. I had the best luck when I planted a *ton* of it at first, some of it died off, then it established itself. I used to be able to grow a really nice mat of it in my 10 gallon with a *ton* of light, but since then I haven't had much luck.


----------



## Dollface

NyteBlade said:


> I hate manzanita too. I think I could live with driftwood if I got the kind that came in one large stump I could plop in, but the manzanita branches are awful. I have to assemble, zip tie, assemble more, falls apart, more zip ties...throw some rocks on, until I have what resembles a disheveled wood pile. My only hope would be to call my tank 'The Logging Camp' and hope it's creative enough to win the IAPLC.


I dislike the giant stumps the most, honestly. It seems like the lazy way out, and most of the time, they're only going to look good from one angle in one spot in the tank, meaning you either use the 100$ chunk of wood once, or all your scapes end up looking the same. At least you can usually arrange individual branches a couple different ways.

After having working with manzanita way more than I've ever wanted to, just by the sake of growing up in a freakin' field of the stuff, I only recently realized that I was going about it all wrong. If you're having to resort to zip ties, stainless steel screws, and slate bottoms, you're probably forcing the wood to do something it doesn't naturally want to do, and it's gonna look terrible. It's also setting yourself up for tears and hardship if you ever try and attach plants to the stuff. Have fun trying to finagle a spool of thread around a mess of branches, or unstick your fingers from superglue without snapping something.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Dollface said:


> It's also setting yourself up for tears and hardship if you ever try and attach plants to the stuff.


You seem to cry a lot in this hobby. :icon_neut

_I have a few questions for you_

Did your tank hit you? Did it act bad?

We're here for you if you have an abusive partner in a planted tank.

There's a support group somewhere. I just don't know where. I think it's in the algae section.


----------



## NyteBlade

Dollface said:


> I dislike the giant stumps the most, honestly. It seems like the lazy way out, and most of the time, they're only going to look good from one angle in one spot in the tank, meaning you either use the 100$ chunk of wood once, or all your scapes end up looking the same. At least you can usually arrange individual branches a couple different ways.
> 
> After having working with manzanita way more than I've ever wanted to, just by the sake of growing up in a freakin' field of the stuff, I only recently realized that I was going about it all wrong. If you're having to resort to zip ties, stainless steel screws, and slate bottoms, you're probably forcing the wood to do something it doesn't naturally want to do, and it's gonna look terrible. It's also setting yourself up for tears and hardship if you ever try and attach plants to the stuff. Have fun trying to finagle a spool of thread around a mess of branches, or unstick your fingers from superglue without snapping something.


And there's just something relaxing about some rocks, some brand new aquasoil, and a substrate flatner


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## Dollface

Francis Xavier said:


> You seem to cry a lot in this hobby. :icon_neut
> 
> _I have a few questions for you_
> 
> Did your tank hit you? Did it act bad?
> 
> We're here for you if you have an abusive partner in a planted tank.
> 
> There's a support group somewhere. I just don't know where. I think it's in the algae section.


:icon_roll

I think this hobby is more emotionally abusive than physically, sometimes.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Almost every planted tank is a heartbreak waiting to happen.


----------



## NyteBlade

Dollface said:


> :icon_roll
> 
> I think this hobby is more emotionally abusive than physically, sometimes.


Eventually you become more realistic and jaded, and approach every tank with a healthy skepticism and paranoia that things will blow up 

That and aquarium-related companies must make a fortune when we amass a stockpile of stuff, then "get out of the hobby" and sell it all off, only to come back 6 months later because we dusted off the old Nature Aquarium World book.

I've gone through plenty of "SCREW IT, SELL IT ALL" and then the proverbial must-buy-everything-and-make-everything awesome spending bender on the other side of the spectrum.


----------



## Dollface

NyteBlade said:


> Eventually you become more realistic and jaded, and approach every tank with a healthy skepticism and paranoia that things will blow up
> 
> That and aquarium-related companies must make a fortune when we amass a stockpile of stuff, then "get out of the hobby" and sell it all off, only to come back 6 months later because we dusted off the old Nature Aquarium World book.
> 
> I've gone through plenty of "SCREW IT, SELL IT ALL" and then the proverbial must-buy-everything-and-make-everything awesome spending bender on the other side of the spectrum.


I would humbly submit my sales thread on sfbaaps back in Jan, I believe the thread title was something to the effect of "FS: All my tanks". 

And then Frank comes along and convinces me to go full ADA on the Mini-S that I actually had to buy back.

I wish he wasn't such a good salesman sometimes.


----------



## Francis Xavier

this seems the most appropriate response


----------



## Dollface

Since this thread has had way too much chatter and not enough pictures, here's a shot of one part of the hobby that I actually am enjoying:









This little thing has been sitting around for about a month, same as the -s. I shamelessly stole the idea for this from Amphirion, since it was so gorgeous, I knew I had to have one for my own. I contemplated secretly tracking down where they live, breaking in one night and stealing it, but I decided it would probably be easier to simply recreate it. I plopped a bunch of peacock moss and a couple bits of mini pellia on a small manzanita burl, then just poked some plants in it. Right now there's dhg, some teeny tiny bits of HC, a sprig of HM, and some hydrosomethingorother sp. japan. I also stuck some rogue sprigs of chocolate mint just to see how it would do in this sort of thing, and it's responded surprisingly well, except for the deficiency that's showing up now.


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## Dollface

This is my window bench that features the burl and it's buddy, a WK that I put together last week.


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## mluk27

I really like the one on the left


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## FlyingHellFish

^ me too, where you get that bowl? It has a nice thick glass, how much was it?


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## Dollface

Where everyone else got theirs, Michael's. I want to say it was like 12$, but honestly it was years ago and that's probably based more on internal random number generator rather than fact.


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## alfalfa

Dollface said:


> This is my window bench that features the burl and it's buddy, a WK that I put together last week.


Thanks for showing these. I love WK, at least what I know about them. I've wanted to start something like this for a while.


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## Dollface

alfalfa said:


> Thanks for showing these. I love WK, at least what I know about them. I've wanted to start something like this for a while.


They're pretty easy to make. Authentic ADA WK are just a ball of sphagnum moss with a couple of stones in the center, all wrapped in cotton thread. No messing with soils or whatever: http://blog.atakas.jp/aqua/archives/000072.html


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## bitFUUL

Francis Xavier said:


> Almost every planted tank is a heartbreak waiting to happen.


Quote of the year.


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## oldpunk78

Francis Xavier said:


> Did your tank hit you? Did it act bad?


lol


I think this boils down to much over-analyzing. If the tank makes you stress, take it down and wait 'till you're interested in doing something w/it again. Simple.


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## ony

oldpunk78 said:


> lol
> 
> 
> I think this boils down to much over-analyzing. If the tank makes you stress, take it down and wait 'till you're interested in doing something w/it again. Simple.


Sounds a little harsh on any fauna you have in there


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## Ozydego

ony said:


> Sounds a little harsh on any fauna you have in there


That depends on how many tanks you have....


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## Dollface

Right now, Fauna is negligible since it's just a couple of amano's. If all else fails, anything that ends up in this tank can just go to my 40 breeder. 

But I'm not going to be tearing this down until I either have a full carpet, or the algae starts crawling out of the tank, having reached sentience. The HC has started to root and spread, now that most of the emersed growth has died off, at least.


----------



## Dollface

Dollface said:


> But I'm not going to be tearing this down until I either have a full carpet, or the algae starts crawling out of the tank, having reached sentience.


So, about that. 










If you've ever wondered what happens when you leave a tank in the care of your brother for 3 days, and it subsequently turns out that he _never shuts the lights or co2 off_ during that time, well, that is what happens. 










I sucked out what I could with airline tubing, scraped down the glass with a razor, trimmed off the emersed hair grass growth that was plastered in algae, did a massive water change, and then drowned my sorrows in beer. Frank advised to add 4-5 drops of phyton git, on top of my usual dosing.


In other news, I think I'm going to take this tank in a different direction, and add some sprigs of hydrocoathanger sp. japan that I have left over from my burl and WK, since I like the growth with the hair grass so much. Mostly though, it's because I have completely run out of care for this tank. It's obviously never going to be the perfectly manicured iwagumi of my dreams now, so I'm just reverting to my old philosophy of "Throw in whatever I damn well feel like and see what grows."


----------



## talontsiawd

Although it's probably easier to start over, I have recovered from worse. If you have some fast growing stems from another tank, through some in. You don't need to plant them, you can just put them in or use weights. Then reduce your photoperiod to about 4 hours. Between that and some manual removal of the algae, this has worked for me very well.


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## Dollface

I usually prefer salvinia over floating stems to both reduce the intensity of the light and as a nutrient sucker, but since I have neither, the issue is kind of void. 

The tank at least feels like it's starting to turn around. The HC has finally gotten to growing, the hair grass is throwing runners, which will be accelerated by the trim, and the hydrocousinit has showed promise on my WK. I think in another month I'll be over the worst of it.


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## shrimpnmoss

*cheers*


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## Dollface

I added the hydrocopingmechanism to the back, with the hair grass. I also picked up some riccia, because I might as well.


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## @[email protected]

some amanos or otos would help the algae clear up faster.
excel spot dosing would help too.


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## Dollface

I have amano's in there, but they've taken to simply destroying my slope, rather than tackling algae. I've been considering otos but I'm hesitant to add some to such a small tank, since I've had issues with keeping them in <5 gallons.


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## Francis Xavier

The good news is the hc is bouncing around. 

More good news is that algae type is the kind amano's will devour with some more quantity. 

If you keep up airline removal, clean the diffuser / lily pipes, you'll be on your way.

A ditch effort could be to drain the tank down a bit and use an unused paint brush dabbled in h202 and applied to the rock will remove it from there. Just be careful.


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## Dollface

Remind me to order a spring washer for the pipes soon.


----------



## Francis Xavier

I'd invest in a timer for the light!


----------



## Dollface

I'm waiting on one, my old ones are all on the fritz.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Also, a noose for your brother might be in order..


----------



## Dollface

Oh, I've been working on that one for years...


----------



## Ozydego

I found a good electronic timer at home depot for a good price, I bought two and I run my moonlights and solenoid on one, and the full lights on the 2nd.... I wanted my Co2 to come on prior to ligts on to get the level up..

GE dual outlet timer

The good thing about this one is that it has the grounding plug outlet for my solenoid... I had a hard time finding these in a simple timer... it also has a rechargeable battery in it in case the power goes out


----------



## Dollface

I'll have to check that out. I have a couple manual timers, and digital ones. The manuals are old giant hulking behemoths that take up too much space on my power strip, while the digitals have started to equate noon with 2:47 am. :\ Not to mention having to reset them if I accidentally look at them the wrong way and hurt their feelings.


----------



## Dollface

WK growth. I also got a new rock to go behind it, which you can't really see.


----------



## thief

I just read through your whole thread and I wanted to say that your going through the same thing a lot of us go through. As a reader, I hate too see you give up on this tank but I do think it is good that you have some mini "side projects" to get you through. It's really easy to get down once you see that algae take over your once upon a time "dream scape." It seems like I've been going through the same test as you, set up a tank, within a month the thing looks like it has went through a nuclear fallout. But stick in there, believe it or not there are people (including myself) hoping to see success in your tank.:smile: I've noticed myself that I will spend 8-9 hours setting up a tank then in a blink of an eye, it's two months later and the tank looks like a sewer.:frown::angryfire I really hope you are able to get some sort of balance to the tank and the hobby itself! Also I love the photography, the images are crisp and clear!:thumbsup:


----------



## Francis Xavier

Thief! Great to see you. For some reason it seems like it's been a while.


----------



## Dollface

thief said:


> I just read through your whole thread and I wanted to say that your going through the same thing a lot of us go through. As a reader, I hate too see you give up on this tank but I do think it is good that you have some mini "side projects" to get you through. It's really easy to get down once you see that algae take over your once upon a time "dream scape." It seems like I've been going through the same test as you, set up a tank, within a month the thing looks like it has went through a nuclear fallout. But stick in there, believe it or not there are people (including myself) hoping to see success in your tank.:smile: I've noticed myself that I will spend 8-9 hours setting up a tank then in a blink of an eye, it's two months later and the tank looks like a sewer.:frown::angryfire I really hope you are able to get some sort of balance to the tank and the hobby itself! Also I love the photography, the images are crisp and clear!:thumbsup:


Thanks for the encouragement and complements :thumbsup: The side projects like the burl, WK, and even my 40 breeder have definitely kept me sane while the -s is working through it's issues.


----------



## frrok

Dollface said:


> WK growth. I also got a new rock to go behind it, which you can't really see.


your an excellent photographer, is this what you do for a living? 

love your little side projects, i have a few of those going on myself but its still a bit chilly on the east coast so they are wrapped in saran wrap, which isn't the prettiest site to see.


----------



## Dollface

Oh lord no, I've only just bought this camera at the beginning of the year, thank you though!

The WK was super simple to put together, and totally worth it. I may pick up a selection of emersed stems at some point and make another since they're so adorable.


----------



## Koi Kameon

*Could you elaborate a little on how you got the ideas for the side projects?*

They look fascinating and so...non-frustrating. :bounce: Something simple and easy for when the nanos are getting us (meaning me which is why I just read your whole thread and really feel for you) down. Amphirion doesn't have much info. and the blog for WK was in Japanese. I'll troll around more, but would love your take. Thanks.

OK found lots on WK on Internet also short thread by FelixAvery from 2007 on here. It's what I've been unkowingly calling "short bowls" at least for the glass set-ups whenever I've run across pics. 

Very interested in your bowl on the left--more into wood than a dirt base--could you explain step-by-step? How do you keep it algae-free?


----------



## Dollface

The burl is simply peacock moss directly on manzanita, the moss attaches to the dw, and then the plants root into the moss, or directly to the dw itself as well. I've been adding pumps of he ada ferts when I change the water in the bowl once a week. The wabi kusa is simply damp sphagnum wrapped around a few rocks with cotton thread, plants root in that the same way, and ferts are the same too, no soil involved.


----------



## Koi Kameon

Ok. So I'd simply drain the bowl and wipe off any algae and refill. 

Thanks. Brackish water crab tank driving me loony right now. Just thinking of this kind of project is a mind vacation...


----------



## Dollface

Basically. I also suck any loose particles out with airline tubing.


----------



## mcqueenesq

I wish I could give WK a try too, but we have a bit of a bug problem in New Orleans.


----------



## Dollface

That could pose a problem, yes. Speaking of bugs, the mint has been infested with aphids, so I'm going to have to pick up something to deal with them this week. The tank is doing fine, I have a small update from saturday that I've been procrastinating on posting, so I guess I'll leave it till Tuesday when I do the weekly maintenance.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Get a pet mantis.


----------



## Chlorophile

Dollface said:


> WK growth. I also got a new rock to go behind it, which you can't really see.


I love that bowl, where did you get it? 

Good luck with your tank woes, my Mini M is a disaster right now, I've got diatoms of both sorts trying to make my HC into poop.

edit: I had that algae on my last HC carpet, it got so entangled into the new growth that it killed off all the roots and it couldn't recover. 
I drained and did a dry start without changing the aquasoil or doing much cleaning and the algae grew on the surface of the substrate. 
It was a pain in the bum.


----------



## Dollface

Francis Xavier said:


> Get a pet mantis.


Maybe they only inhabit authentic ADA WK like yours :icon_lol:



Chlorophile said:


> I love that bowl, where did you get it?
> 
> Good luck with your tank woes, my Mini M is a disaster right now, I've got diatoms of both sorts trying to make my HC into poop.
> 
> edit: I had that algae on my last HC carpet, it got so entangled into the new growth that it killed off all the roots and it couldn't recover.
> I drained and did a dry start without changing the aquasoil or doing much cleaning and the algae grew on the surface of the substrate.
> It was a pain in the bum.


I don't know where it's from, actually, I just kind of found it a few years back. 

The algae from the weekend over exposure was taken care of by manual removal, a large water change, and some phyton git. The HC has managed to shrug off most of the diatoms now that it's growing, the only thing is some patches of BGA have popped up which I'm currently dealing with with some bacter 100.


----------



## Koi Kameon

*burl bowl*

_I don't want to hijack your thread on your difficult tank, but I just got back into the hobby a couple of years ago after a nearly twenty year absence (yes, I lasted that long) and only got serious about planted tanks this winter. The only plant I recognized in your burl bowl description was the HC. Could you post their proper names? Also, the great plant in the center, is that the mint? Thanks again._


----------



## Dollface

The "stem" plant is indeed the mint. I'll guess I'll post a little update of the burl later today when the light is better, with a diagram, but in the meantime this is the current plant list:

Peacock Moss - Taxiphyllum sp.
Mini pellia - Riccardia sp.
Mini christmas moss (newly added) - ?
Dwarf hair grass - Eleocharis Minima, though I think DHG is technically the hobby term for parvula, I'm not sure, I never really payed attention
HC - Hemianthus callitrichoides
Hydrocotyle sp. japan


----------



## Dollface

Here's some burl shots, I'll have an update on the tank later today.


















So I had to remove the sand because it was getting anaerobic in some places under the burl, making for an extremely foul smell whenever I changed the water. I also picked up some insecticidal soap today to deal with the aphids on the mint. This is after I sprayed, and drained the water to let it air out for a little bit, which seems to benefit the emersed growth.









The mini pellia is finally starting to transition, I really enjoy the growth pattern of this plant on DW, even though it looks terrible everywhere else, ime. You can see some of the mint roots in the background. That's all completely new growth, and it's doing very well in this sort of hydroponic-esque set up. I wonder if I could grow lettuce on a WK?


----------



## frrok

cool! here is my little setup i got going on...

not pretty i know but im hoping it warms up and i can open the tops and raise the light. i just added that rock in the cube to try and grow some mini-xmass moss.


----------



## Dollface

The glass tile on top of the center one is pretty ingenious. My cats won't let me keep saran wrapped tanks, they poke holes in it all the time. I also don't really like them for displays, since a lot of the time you can't even see it through the humidity. I figure if I'm going to be staring at these vases enough I can keep up with the top offs as needed.


----------



## frrok

Dollface said:


> The glass tile on top of the center one is pretty ingenious. My cats won't let me keep saran wrapped tanks, they poke holes in it all the time. I also don't really like them for displays, since a lot of the time you can't even see it through the humidity. I figure if I'm going to be staring at these vases enough I can keep up with the top offs as needed.


thanks, I actually cut the glass myself. I got a large piece of glass for free on the street and cut it with a glass score. I really hate the saran wrap thing also but I am really just trying to grow some things emersed, not really for aesthetics. But when i move into my new place i want to start a little wk project as well, for display purposes. thx for providing some inspiration. :smile:


----------



## frrok

oh... for some reason my cat doesnt touch the cube...but she is obssed with my 10 gallon tank, she climbs up the top and shes already pushed the acrylic lid I have on it and almost electrocuted herself with the light... she wants those fish bad!


----------



## Dollface

My occasional afternoon ritual. I have a cushion on the floor in front of the window table, and the rack with the mini-S, specifically for tank watching.


----------



## Dollface

frrok said:


> oh... for some reason my cat doesnt touch the cube...but she is obssed with my 10 gallon tank, she climbs up the top and shes already pushed the acrylic lid I have on it and almost electrocuted herself with the light... she wants those fish bad!


My cat's don't fish so much as use my tanks as their personal water fountains :icon_roll The only reason I have to top off the burl and WK so often isn't even evaporation, it's from the cats drinking out of them. Don't even get me started on the cat hair.


----------



## frrok

Dollface said:


> My cat's don't fish so much as use my tanks as their personal water fountains :icon_roll The only reason I have to top off the burl and WK so often isn't even evaporation, it's from the cats drinking out of them. Don't even get me started on the cat hair.


cat hair!! ughhh... i have a siberian, theres hair everywhere. i think my fish get hairballs!


----------



## Dollface

frrok said:


> cat hair!! ughhh... i have a siberian, theres hair everywhere. i think my fish get hairballs!


I've pulled out some weird clumps of "algae" out of my tanks before only to discover ... nope, cat hair. It gets ridiculous.


----------



## Dollface

And now, because this is in fact a tank journal, here's what I did saturday:









You can kind of see the sheet of BGA extending over the rock and surrounding HC, and even up the glass a bit. Frank was lamenting last month that his tank hadn't gotten almost any sort of algae, so he couldn't show off how easy it is to deal with BGA with Bacter 100. Thank god for my problem child of a tank, huh? :icon_roll









I drained the tank as low as possible and carefully sprinkled a spoonfull of bacter 100 over the areas effected by BGA, and then carefully filled it back up. This is roughly 2 hours later, if I recall. You can see that the BGA really has been literally eaten away at the edges by the bacter 100. I gotta say, it was pretty neat. 









This is the next morning. It may not look like much of an improvement, but what happened was that the entire sheet of the BGA actually lifted up from the rock, allowing it to be easily vacuumed away from the AS and plants with airline tubing, vs. another tiny unintentional control spot, that is still firmly adhered to the substrate.

I'll have part 2 of the update later tonight.


----------



## Dollface

And here's the dynamic I'm-hiding-my-obscenely-dirty-pipes-until-my-spring-washer-gets-here FTS shot. 










This was the result after suctioning the remaining BGA out during today's water change. BGA? What BGA? I'm officially going to chalk that one up under "thoroughly impressed". 

I'm also impressed with the Phyton git, since it seems to have eliminated most of the other algae on the plants. The Diatoms are all but gone, the GSA has barely returned to the glass, and even the rocks are looking a little less technicolor-y. It could be that the tank has finally clicked into balance and is taking care of itself, but hey, if I bought the snake oil I might as well believe in it.


----------



## Koi Kameon

Dollface said:


> My occasional afternoon ritual. I have a cushion on the floor in front of the window table, and the rack with the mini-S, specifically for tank watching.


 I too have a cushion I sit on to watch my two bowls, but at night with the lights turned back on and tunnel vision to not see the 5 gall. brackish tank that is driving me to institutionalization...one of the problems with that tank is the anaerobic bacteria. Read all over that as long as you keep the sand under an inch or so, there should be no problem with it. Not true. What peaceful fine-grained substrate are you thinking of replacing it with? Bc the sand sure looked great.


----------



## Dollface

Koi Kameon said:


> I too have a cushion I sit on to watch my two bowls, but at night with the lights turned back on and tunnel vision to not see the 5 gall. brackish tank that is driving me to institutionalization...one of the problems with that tank is the anaerobic bacteria. Read all over that as long as you keep the sand under an inch or so, there should be no problem with it. Not true. What peaceful fine-grained substrate are you thinking of replacing it with? Bc the sand sure looked great.


I had a 1/2" sand bottom in the mini-M using ADA nile sand, which has a larger/more varied grain size than play sand, and I never had any problems. I used the same depth in the bowl though, so I think it may have to do with a lack of water flow.

I quite like it with no substrate, honestly, it makes for a "floating" effect. If I were to replace it, I'd probably pick up a small bag of ADA forest sand, which is more like fine gravel rather than sand.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Maybe Dollface should do the Bacter 100 commercial. Amazing ain't it?

The tanks really coming around - you're in that I see it every day mode so you don't see the growth, but I can tell the HC is definitely picking up the pace/


----------



## Dollface

I was about 3/4 into another long, heartfelt relationship analogy before I realized that I was probably anthropomorphizing the tank a little too much, and making some unfortunate implications nearer the end, so I'll just leave it as this:

I hate the tank today a little less than I did yesterday.


----------



## Dollface

(shhhhh, I know. The spring washer is on it's way.)


----------



## Couesfanatic

Those spring washers are nifty. Got one of my own. You will love it.


----------



## Dollface

The burl airing out with the WK. 

The tank, well, we're back on speaking terms, but barely. The BGA has expanded out and attempting to cover everything. Manual removal, water changes, etc. The plants seem to have gotten into their groove, except for maybe the hair grass. I think I may have trimmed it too soon. There are runners, but it's not doing the invasive hair grass thing like I expected. Maybe it just needs a little bit more time to kick into gear. The hyperactive sp. japan seems to be doing well, but I'm not really familiar enough with it's growth pattern to say either way.

For those of you reading in the future, you can skip to page 17 at this point. You will miss nothing.


----------



## Dollface

So, an update. 

I got the timer a week ago. I still haven't set it up.
I took down the advance system to replace the cartridge and clean the diffusor. I never did either of those.
I haven't turned the tank on for two days.










Depression sucks.


----------



## talontsiawd

Tank is looking great, even with the algae. It's weird because everyone puts the light on the other side so I feel like it's backwards lol. Looks great, will recover well, and just needs 15 min of TLC to clean all the glass.


----------



## Dollface

The light actually is backwards. having it the right way, logo facing forward, would have resulted in my viewing angle from the left being blocked by the base. Frank nearly had a heart attack. "You put it backwards!?"


----------



## talontsiawd

Dollface said:


> The light actually is backwards. having it the right way, logo facing forward, would have resulted in my viewing angle from the left being blocked by the base. Frank nearly had a heart attack. "You put it backwards!?"


God forbid you can't see the logo haha. I have only talked to Frank once and he seems super chill. However, I know what an unseen ADA logo means to him, following his posts over the years (Frank, I am just messing with you lol).


Get to cleaning that glass/glasswork when you get a chance. It is really inspiring even as is.


----------



## Dollface

Another aspect is that, in the beginning, I was wrong. I was so, so wrong. I kind of wish that Frank had straight up called me an idiot right off the bat when I was being so stupid about starting the tank. I probably would've pitched a fit, in fact, I kind of did anyway, but he would've been right, and maybe I would've wizened up a lot faster. 

I started off on the wrong foot with this tank, and the aftermath has just been like an increasingly disastrous game of QWOP, with stumble after stumble after double flip after "Oh god arms don't move that way." 

Tom Barr made a point in that ... unfortunately titled dry start thread in the main forum, that there have been successes and failures in nearly every method, not because the method itself is inherently flawed, but because people are. 

And that's just the thing, I've been failing Frank's ADA method for a while, quite spectacularly might I add. I may make noises about this tank being a "learning experience", and that's true, in that I've learned a whole lot of what NOT to do over the course of the past weeks. 

That shouldn't reflect on the method that Frank has been promoting, though. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I'd be battling way more problems than I already have had I not been able to utilize a lot of the tools that the full system provides. The combination of Bacter 100, Clear super, and the Green bacter helped the tank cycle easily twice as fast as any tank I've had previously. I don't think anyone could make an argument that ADA's ferts aren't top notch, and I'm probably going to swear by phyton git for the forseeable future, even if it's probably more of a (delicious smelling) placebo than anything. 

Frank's methodology of attentive care is probably the part that's almost impossible to understate in importance. Just being engaged in the tank, keeping up with water changes, addressing problems as they occur, and taking action to rectify them immediately, stuff like that is worth way more than a 500ml life time supply of green bacter.

And that's where I've been failing, especially those last two weeks. Apathy finally won out for the past two days. I can't even look at the tank without wanting to go bury my face in a pillow, and sleep until my spring washer arrives. But that's not the tank, or the method's fault, it's mine.


----------



## Dollface

All in all, when I said I no longer hate the tank, it's because I just can't even muster up the energy to have any feeling what so ever about it. It's just kind of existing. I'm just kind of existing. 

I'm probably just going to go back to waiting for that spring washer to get here, now.


----------



## oldpunk78

I'm telling you, just pack it up and wait until you're in a good place with the tank again. It's kinda like being in an abusive relationship. Cut your looses and start over.

:/


----------



## Dollface

I've been considering tearing the -s down and just setting up the -f in it's stead, but at this point, the tank has a sort of momentum that tearing it down would be more effort than it'd be worth. And honestly, it's a lot more soul sucking staring at an empty tank than a full one, even if it's full of algae. I should know, I had 5 of them laying around at one time.


----------



## oldpunk78

haha - ya, I guess try and limit the soul sucking. Perhaps too many tanks could be the issue. If you're not keeping up with maintenance b/c it feels like work...

Eh, my ideals are probably seriously flawed. This is coming from a guy who just bought a solar II with unreserved intentions of gutting it and retroing leds into it. (I can almost feel Frank's cringe as I type this)


----------



## Dollface

Hah, I hope you can feel me cringing as I read that, too.

To go off on a tangent, though, I'm wondering how long it's going to be until ADA releases a full Solar sized LED light. The aquasky looks promising, and having seen some full size LED fixtures in use over reefs, the effect really is quite stunning.

Is the retro destined for the 60-p?


----------



## oldpunk78

Probably a while till we see any solar led fixtures. I'm actually wondering what a mh equivalent would be like from ada. It would most likely be out of my price range.

And yes, it'll eventuality go over my 60p 

Anyway... remember, this is supposed to be fun and rewarding. Enjoy the tanks for what they are and appreciate what you have.

That being said, well... thats all I've got. Lol


----------



## Dollface

I think any large scale LED fixture is going to be outside the bounds of many people's budgets for a few years to come. My reaction to the pricing of the Aquasky was actually "Oh, is that it?" considering the recent market prices of LED fixtures.


----------



## oldpunk78

Do any maintaining today?


----------



## Dollface

I cleaned the diffusor. I still haven't set the advance system back up, or turned the tank on since Tuesday, but I'm going to count this as a major achievement, and dare anyone to say otherwise.

For the next four weeks, though, I'm on a break from my job, since spring classes have finished, and I don't have summer camps until June. I've been looking forward to this for over a month, and just the realization that I no longer have to deal with roving hoards of 9 year old children week after week is an immense boon to my spirits. I think I might just set the co2 up tomorrow, and actually turn the light on, and, universe be willing, _remove some algae._


----------



## oldpunk78

you are killing me! turn on the co2!!! and the light!!!!


----------



## Dollface

I will!


Tomorrow.

Tonight, I play Eufloria.


----------



## oldpunk78

Sorry, I don't get it. (been not sober...) trees, viruses, ???


----------



## oldpunk78

edit: (not so much; Just saw what it says under you screen name. Not true.


----------



## Dollface

Not sober hi-5. 

Basically it's a game about space trees. You play .. well, I'm not actually sure what you play, I think you might actually be a tree, but you control a giant army of seedlings to try and capture a series of asteroids from other, color swapped seedlings.

It's like an exceptionally soothing game of risk.

With space trees.


----------



## oldpunk78

I;m sorry. LOL


----------



## Dollface

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about. ◕ ◡ ◕


----------



## oldpunk78

'Space Trees'!!!!


----------



## oldpunk78

Thank you. I reallyneeded that. (rough week...)


----------



## Dollface

Treeeeeeeeeesss Innnnnn Spaaaaaaaaaaaccceeee.

I'm going to have to clean up the tank tomorrow, and take a bunch of photos, just to make up for this silliness. To those reading in the future, there will be photos on the next page. I promise. Even though I don't actually know what page this is in 15 post per page formatting.


----------



## Dollface

Tell me about it, man. I'm pretty sure we all have those weeks. Or two. Or three. Some times you just need to apply liberal amounts of liquor.

And space trees.


----------



## oldpunk78

eh....



my stuff hurts(manual labor work) and I'm at least $500 in the hole. I do have a solar II though. I guess it evens out.


----------



## Dollface

Youch, yeah, that'll do it. My side has been seized up for a week, between small child wrangling and laptop wrestling. I deserve hazard pay for this job. I swear. 

Maybe I should get a Solar II as well. I wouldn't even have to do anything with it. It would just sit there, radiating magic ADA energy. Maybe that specific 8000K color temperature is meant to sooth your aura?


----------



## oldpunk78

Ya know, I plugged it in out in the garage this afternoon and made of mental note of how nice the color temp was. Silly amano. 

Pff

I get hazard pay every day. It isn't enough.


----------



## Dollface

Was your aura soothed? I know those subtle green tones make me feel more at peace. Not to much angry red, not too much cold blue, it's just the right wave length, man.


----------



## oldpunk78

Ya for like 30 seconds. Then I remembered how much I payed for it. The soothing kinda stopped.


----------



## Dollface

Shh, oldpunk ...


----------



## Francis Xavier

And now I'm playing space trees for iPad.


----------



## FlyingGiraffes

Playing Eufloria on steam. Gotta love those daily deals. 

Good luck with the tank.


----------



## Ozydego

Space trees were nice until the game turned and got harder, thank god for enhanced seedlings. 

I'm interested to see what a dark tank w/o Co2 looks like after 5 days...


----------



## mcqueenesq

Bump for more digressions. This thread is epic.


----------



## Dollface

Sorry, mcqueenesq, that well needed bout of silliness is over. 










Maybe.

Anyway, as to how the tank looks, the answer is:










Remarkably similar. 

And here it is after some, gasp, minor maintenance.










Can you tell I'm phoning in the photos today? Because I am.


----------



## frrok

I can tell. I'm always so lazy to pull out the "good" camera.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

I like it. If you stil need some more HC I can send you some as a... peace offering :biggrin:


----------



## Dollface

frrok said:


> I can tell. I'm always so lazy to pull out the "good" camera.


I know what you mean. Though ironically my dslr is more convenient than my phone camera, I just usually can't bother with making the effort to take a straight photo, especially when I'm so meh about the tank.


----------



## @[email protected]

is that cyanobacteria? up your flow and NO3-. increasing CO2 couldnt hurt either.
gram negative antibiotics (tetracycline, minocycline, etc) will obliterate it (unless its resistant to the particular one you use), but it will come back if you dont fix the underlying issue.


----------



## alfalfa

Francis Xavier said:


> And now I'm playing space trees for iPad.


Yeah, I'm downloading it as I type this. :hihi:


----------



## Dollface

the flow is currently at maximum, but I don't doubt that I've lost some because of the pipes. Next week I'm due for a filter maintenance however which should remedy that. 

I found my box of kits for the first time in a while, and you're right, my nitrates are reading extremely low, under 20ppm. Frank's theory is that the rocks may be messing up the water chemistry, and while my PH is reading somewhere between 6.4 to 7, my gh/kh is apparently on the higher side according to a test strip of dubious accuracy, since those particular kits' location still alludes me.


----------



## Francis Xavier

For a truer reading, make sure I test at night with lights off, otherwise co2 skews ph readings.


----------



## Dollface

I'll do another test then and see what the reading is. Are you thinking that would put my actual PH around 7-ish?


----------



## Francis Xavier

Probably about there, ya. That's not a bad thing, exactly 7 is technically perfect


----------



## @[email protected]

the pH doesnt really tell you much. its just the -log[H3O+], meaning it tells you the concentration of hydronium ions (or hydrogen ions, hydrogen ions will attach to water molecules to make hydronium, and then pop back off). 
the H3O+/H+ ion doesnt really make that much of a difference to the plants in the concentration ranges we are talking about. IME, HC is not finicky about pH. now if your pH were 3 or 12, then it might be a problem. 
i had a very healthy tank with a pH of 5.3. and i also had a very healthy tank with a pH of 7.6

kh and gh are much more important. they measure the amount of CO3-- and HCO3- (kh), and Ca++ and Mg++ (gh) ions, which organisms have narrower "good" ranges for. 

also, i didnt notice your pipes. you have a lot of rot in there. cyanobacteria (and many algal protists, by the way) are not pure autotrophs. they can and do derive some energy and nutrition by decomposing things. so if you have a lot of decaying matter releasing organic molecules into the water, you are giving the cyano an additional food source.
this is partly why dirt tanks often experience algae on startup, there are a lot of decaying organics in soil. until they finish decomposing, they are food for protists and bacteria, but not for plants. 
there are actually even species of algae which are pure heterotrophs (just an interesting fact).


----------



## Dollface

I'll see if I can locate my kits then and try to get a more accurate reading, thanks for the info. The tank itself has stabilized, and I have not experienced any new die off now that the emersed growth of HC and hair grass has phased out, but I don't doubt that there's probably some residual matter in the filter that needs to be addressed.


----------



## Francis Xavier

It's about time for you to switch to bio rio anyway, actually like two weeks over due. So replacing carbon with Bio Rio will help a lot.

To further stabilize things - you need some fish, which actually contribute a lot to the balance of the layout and nutrition of the tank.


----------



## Dollface

I actually switched to Bio Rio during my last filter maintenance. That brings up a question though, how the heck am I supposed to clean that stuff in the 2211? All the possible methods I've envisioned end in disaster.


----------



## Francis Xavier

If you source a fine meshed filter net, you can place the Bio Rio in there next time for easier rinsing.

In the mean time on next cleaning, get a bucket of aquarium water from the mini s and empty the bio rip into the water and kind of sift it with your hands to remove built up mulm. Then place into a filter net or place back into the filter a fistful at a time.


----------



## Koi Kameon

*The burl is so freaking peaceuful...*



Dollface said:


> Compared to the ADA tank drama. As someone who has never attempted an Amano anything, I thought your new pics looked great, but I know nothing.
> Did do some major shopping and found two potential burl bowls--one a clear Japanese-noodle bowl looking bowl for 1.57 and one like yours but smaller for 4.49 all at the Midwestern chain Meijer. Will start peacefully looking for a piece of L. Michigan driftwood soon. RE: 5 gall. brackish water tank your experience reminds me of--have decided to cut my losses and look to trade in the five gallon ranch house for a 2.5-3gall. condo for the crab. She's tiny and rarely uses the whole tank and the thing is making me tear my hair out....so maybe the middle way for me.
> For you, whatever works. Still my sympathy. Still reading avidly.
> And where can I buy chocolate mint? Would it just be in the garden centers now with the fancier herbs? What are your thoughts on regular mint?


----------



## Dollface

That's awesome that you're starting your own little burl thing. Hardwoods work really well, especially if you can find some dead roots. The noodle bowl dish sounds really neat.

That's good to hear about your 5 gallon, though. Honestly for all of my squawking about keeping the tank up, there is definitely value in cutting losses when you need to. Letting go of most of my tanks at the beginning of the year definitely lifted a huge burden I was carrying around for no reason.

I found the chocolate mint at a local garden center that seems to have a wider variety of plants than the larger chains. "Regular" mint is kind of tough to get a handle on, because there's honestly like 20 bazillion varieties with spearmint and peppermint and what have you. I pulled this chocolate mint out from my planters for this burl because A. it was looking kind of raggedy and B. it's one of the smaller varieties. Spearmint, peppermint, and apple mint all get relatively large. Otherwise I also have lime mint, ginger mint, and pineapple mint, which are smaller like the chocolate mint. You can also just used any stem plant that'll grow emersed. I just had the mint on hand, instead of like a rotala or something.


----------



## Dollface

In lieu of a tank photo today, here's a tumblr shot of my lunch.









As you cannot tell from my fruit spread, I have what appears to be Staghorn.

I've never had staghorn in a tank. Ever. I've had almost everything else, but not staghorn. I saw it when I flipped the light on, and honestly, I almost turned it right back off again.


----------



## aweeby

first thought seeing that picture: what are you growing in that tank? peach trees and tomato plants, maybe a small hog farm?

sorry about the staghorn, enjoy your lunch.


----------



## Koi Kameon

Ok cool. There is one fancier garden center around here and will ask for chocolate or at least small mint. I am pretty sure a cutting of my baby tears/corsican mint houseplant will work on top also. That loves/needs to be wet. I also have a Drosera adelae (carnivorous sundew plant) I got at Lowe's years ago and one of its offshoots could go on top too. But I like that moss/flat look of yours with the bit of mint on top, so that's just an idea to throw out there for anyone else...Just know they like indirect light and their air HUMID and that's why mine thrives in a one gallon fish bowl.

One more burl question: what are the roundish green-leaved plants sitting hugging your moss ball? I think I would like to try one of those on top too. Goes very well with the moss....


----------



## @[email protected]

Dollface said:


> As you cannot tell from my fruit spread, I have what appears to be Staghorn.
> 
> I've never had staghorn in a tank. Ever. I've had almost everything else, but not staghorn. I saw it when I flipped the light on, and honestly, I almost turned it right back off again.


considering the algaefication that is going on, you may want to rethink what you are doing with the tank. something is off.
how are you getting CO2 in there, and how is your flow? what light do you have (bulb type, wattage, kelvins), how high is it above the tank? are you dosing ferts, which ones, how often and how much? 
if you dont have livestock in there, you may want to bump up your CO2 some, as that will definitely not hurt, and may very well help. 
decrease the photoperiod, or decrease the intensity of the light. this will slow down the algae takeover, while decreasing the plants needs for CO2.
you may also want to dose excel or another glutaraldehyde source(especial spot dose for algae on non-sensitive plants). it will damage algae while providing more carbon for the plants. 
if you have algae growing on any root-feeders, stick a root tab under them. that wont make the algae go away, but it can help the plant grow faster, and as it grows you can trim away the algaefied foliage.


----------



## Dollface

A plant that requires high humidity probably wouldn't do well in the open style vase I have my burl in, unless you're in like, florida or something where it's already 90% humidity. High sided bowls like you mentioned that can trap the air are much better for that. 

speaking of the burl, I switched it and the WK around. The mint doesn't appear to appreciate the direct sunlight, while the WK gets almost none at all. I'll have a photo update tomorrow when I can be bothered to clean up around the bench.


----------



## Dollface

@[email protected] said:


> considering the algaefication that is going on, you may want to rethink what you are doing with the tank. something is off.
> how are you getting CO2 in there, and how is your flow? what light do you have (bulb type, wattage, kelvins), how high is it above the tank? are you dosing ferts, which ones, how often and how much?
> if you dont have livestock in there, you may want to bump up your CO2 some, as that will definitely not hurt, and may very well help.
> decrease the photoperiod, or decrease the intensity of the light. this will slow down the algae takeover, while decreasing the plants needs for CO2.
> you may also want to dose excel or another glutaraldehyde source(especial spot dose for algae on non-sensitive plants). it will damage algae while providing more carbon for the plants.
> if you have algae growing on any root-feeders, stick a root tab under them. that wont make the algae go away, but it can help the plant grow faster, and as it grows you can trim away the algaefied foliage.


I have a feeling the staghorn was actually introduced with the h. sp. japan, along with some small pieces of u. gibba that I've been finding. I've upped the dosing after you pointed out that my nitrates were low, and I'm planning to clean the filter and pipes tomorrow, which will probably help some. I'll see if I can locate my bottle of excel as well. 

Thanks for the analysis, Marko. It's been really helpful.


----------



## oldpunk78

Raw Bacon?


----------



## Dollface

You're the second person to say that. It's pancetta, very lightly cooked.


----------



## radioman

Dollface said:


> You're the second person to say that. It's pancetta, very lightly cooked.


haha looks just like raw bacon


----------



## oldpunk78

J


Dollface said:


> You're the second person to say that. It's pancetta, very lightly cooked.


Ooo, fancy. Too fancy for me anyway. I likes mine crunchy. Mmmm


----------



## Dollface

I eat my cookie dough raw too. Sometimes you just gotta live on the wild side.


----------



## Koi Kameon

Dollface said:


> A plant that requires high humidity probably wouldn't do well in the open style vase I have my burl in, unless you're in like, florida or something where it's already 90% humidity. High sided bowls like you mentioned that can trap the air are much better for that.
> 
> speaking of the burl, I switched it and the WK around. The mint doesn't appear to appreciate the direct sunlight, while the WK gets almost none at all. I'll have a photo update tomorrow when I can be bothered to clean up around the bench.


 Yes, definitely not a combo that would make it thru a Midwestern winter unless a cloche was dropped over it. Is that HC spreading over and hugging the WK? If so, I was always afraid to try that bc of its supposedly super demands for CO2 and nutrients and I am strictly low-maintenance bowls. If not, what is it? It looks so...wabi kusa :red_mouth


----------



## Ozydego

I believe growing emersed, the Co2 demands are not there... thnk dry start, you can use Co2, but not essential


----------



## Dollface

No, that's the hydrocotyle sp. japan that I believe you're referring to. There actually is some HC on the WK that hitchhiked on somehow when I was putting it together, but it's not visible at this point.


----------



## freph

Very tasty looking spread you have there! Sorry about the tank, though. Algae must really like you or something.  Curse you and your addictive space trees. This game is far too fun to only be $4.99...first app I purchased on my new iPad (got it Monday) and already have several hours on it. :hihi:


----------



## Koi Kameon

*Still looking for the mint; Now looking for online DoAqua! dealer*

I'm thinking of downsizing to a cube. Love the cube look and could only find one online dealer for DoAqua's Mini-M and ADA Mini-S. The Mini-M was out of stock and I have sunk so much money into a 2.49 crab from PetSmart it is not even funny so would probably like that route even though it is a 4 gallon and I am really looking for 2.5-3 gallon. Afraid a large bowl would distort the crab into some freakish monster...

Do you know of any other online dealer or anyone else that makes 2.5-3 gallon cubes? Crystal-clear glass is not an issue for me as I am used to my off-brand 5 gallon....Thanks for all your help.


----------



## Dollface

Shoot Frank/Francis Xavier a pm or email, I bought all my ADA tanks from him at ADG. The Mini-S is right at 3 ish gallons and it's really nice. You might want to hold off a little bit though, because apparently ADA might be releasing a new version of the -s that's deeper, which it really needs.


----------



## Dollface

I'm lacking a photo so you'll just have to take my word for it: The tank, the pipes, and the filter is clean. I feel very accomplished. I'll have visual proof when I'm not taking such terrible pictures as I am today.


----------



## oldpunk78

> The tank, the pipes, and the filter is clean. I feel very accomplished.


----------



## Dollface

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCLIg6WT7zM&feature=relmfu


----------



## Dollface

So, self congratulatory cockatiels aside, I have a deep, dark secret I need to confess to everyone. It doesn't have anything to do with the -s, honestly, because while the results of the Great Filter Clean of 5/12 are admirable, the battle to get there is not something I care to dwell on at the moment.

No, that secret is ...

That I have other tanks. Tanks other than the 45-F and the 40 breeder, I mean. Tucked away in my attic, in a deep, dark corner under layers of tank clutter and desiccated substrate is a 15 gallon long. It was the only other tank to survive the great new years purge, mostly for the fact that I couldn't sell the darn thing. But also because I legitimately like it. It's got all the benefits of a 20 long without that awkward 30" length that nobody makes decent fixtures for. 

See, for the past week, this idea has been eating away at my aquarium-centric thoughts. Why don't you do something with the 15 gallon? The little thought worm says. It's there, you've got the fixtures for it, you could use it to grow stems...

Oh, stems. The love of my plant life, not ugly, mangled, gnarly emersed stems that I'm basically limited to with WK, but the beautiful flowing wonders that got me into the hobby in the first place. Only I don't actually want to _grow_ stems, I just want to have stems. Big difference.


----------



## Dollface

I've had that particular wriggling idea about the 15 gallon for a long time, almost as long as I've had the tank, in fact, but only recently has it managed to infect the perfectly fine, simple plan that I had for my 45-f. That plan, if you need a refresher from earlier in the thread, was a simple driftwood scape with moss under a single LED strip. That was it. It was basically the same set up as my mother's mini-M that was so successful. 

"Wouldn't that look great with stems though?" The worm says.

Curse you, worm. Yes, yes it would. 

So, there in lies my conundrum. Do I succumb to multi-tank syndrome, and set up the 45-f as a plain tank, and then indulge my dutch tendencies with the 15 gallon, or do I fight against the urges that led me to 10+ empty tanks around my house at one point, and just put stems in the darn 45-f?


----------



## Dollface

The thing is, sticking stems in the 45-f isn't exactly as easy as it sounds. For one, I don't have a fixture, since the -f suffers from the same plight as it's 10 gallon bretheren in that there's just no fixtures for that size. None. Zip. Unless I were to stick a solar over the thing.

all 4 gallons of it. 

I purchased a 12" ecoxotic stunner strip for it (which is a fantastic fixture btw) with the moss tank in mind, but there's no way that poor thing is going to be growing anything but epiphytes. 

Not a problem for the 15 gallon, I have not one, but TWO fixtures that could easily be employed for that tank. So what's the hang up, you say? It's nothing, just co2, which is only a couple hundred dollars for a pressurized regulator. No big deal. I mean, I'd also have to set up a co2 system if I were to grow stems in the -f, but I have a simple paintball regulator that I could use for that, an option which doesn't look so appealing to me on the 15 gallon. 

So there you go. That's the issue that's been bugging me on and off for the past few months. I could continue to word vomit for another three posts about this easily, but after a few beers to dull the frustration of filter maintenance, I'm starting to lose sight of the actual point of this rambling.

Basically what I'm asking is:
Do I commit to full system for the 45-F as well, with all the agony that currently entails, or do I invest in a regulator for the 15 gallon, which could conceivably be set up as a dutch farm? Or do I just abandon this entire line of thought and stick with my current plan of a moss tank and an overwhelming sense of disappointment?


----------



## Francis Xavier

Dollface said:


> I'm lacking a photo so you'll just have to take my word for it: The tank, the pipes, and the filter is clean. I feel very accomplished. I'll have visual proof when I'm not taking such terrible pictures as I am today.


The Mother Tree is pleased with your progress.



Dollface said:


> No, that secret is ...
> 
> That I have other tanks...the 45-F .


You have found an artifact. Gather more of these for mother tree.



Dollface said:


> I've had that particular wriggling idea about the 15 gallon for a long time, almost as long as I've had the tank, in fact, but only recently has it managed to infect the perfectly fine, simple plan that I had for my 45-f. That plan,


What's this?! Another seedling colony?? Are they spreading the grey disease? By god, I think they are!


----------



## Dollface

Ow, ow, oh god, no, I shouldn't be laughing so hard with this stitch in my side, _there are tears, Francis._


----------



## Francis Xavier

And yet, it is so oddly appropriate!


----------



## Dollface

Refer to the last picture in the first post.


----------



## Francis Xavier

But really, I wouldn't do stems in the 45 since its so shallow, unless you want them half emerged. Aside, just do a tank to do what you want with on each one - just take it a step at a time so each one can be stable and easy maintenance without overwhelming you.


----------



## Dollface

I see what you mean about the emerged stems, but ... the idea of having more tanks going just seems like a recipe for disaster. The fixture vs co2 aspect is the extremely oversimplified point it boils down to. The long version involves all the additional accessories each tank would require, and the maintenance concerns, and the enjoyment vs. income aspect of a farm... it's just frustrating to think about, honestly.


----------



## Koi Kameon

*Frank is ADG???*



Dollface said:


> Shoot Frank/Francis Xavier a pm or email, I bought all my ADA tanks from him at ADG. The Mini-S is right at 3 ish gallons and it's really nice. You might want to hold off a little bit though, because apparently ADA might be releasing a new version of the -s that's deeper, which it really needs.


 I have been wondering and wondering if this Frank was a dealer or if he was just a very, very persuasive ADA convert. ADG was the online retailer I was talking about finding. This is hysterical. Now Frank gets to get a PM from a woman totally disillusioned with her 5 gall. crab tank set up looking for a crab condo...A woman who came to the hard realization after almost 20 years out of the hobby that she is now really a bowl girl--as in she likes things miniature. A woman so fed up with everything to do with this tank from fungus substrate issues on up to lying snail dealers that she just wants to simplify. Hope he's used to those.:smile::smile: Thanks!


----------



## Koi Kameon

Francis Xavier said:


> But really, I wouldn't do stems in the 45 since its so shallow, unless you want them half emerged. Aside, just do a tank to do what you want with on each one - just take it a step at a time so each one can be stable and easy maintenance without overwhelming you.


 Not that I am sucking up to Frank already, but I agree. The burl and the wabi were nice, easy soothing, very different side projects. Brain vacation from Iwagumi. But the rest sound like they would possibly develop issues of their own and then you would be drinking heavily...Maybe you could cover your lovely bench table with burl and wabi bowl variants instead. Or a nice bowl a la Newman or Nehy's? That or take up kickboxing.


----------



## AaronMB

Dollface - if you give as much attention to brainstorming your conundrums as you do your writing, things are bound to--at least eventually!--work out well.

This doesn't help at all with your dilemma, of course. Thanks, though, for a great thread. I've learned much and will enjoy continuing to do so.


----------



## oldpunk78

You should just get a 60p and go dutch with it.


----------



## Francis Xavier

oldpunk78 said:


> You should just get a 60p and go dutch with it.


The Mother Tree Suggests you populate other empty Glass asteroids for the colony.

Spread your seedlings!


----------



## Dollface

Koi Kameon said:


> Not that I am sucking up to Frank already, but I agree. The burl and the wabi were nice, easy soothing, very different side projects. Brain vacation from Iwagumi. But the rest sound like they would possibly develop issues of their own and then you would be drinking heavily...Maybe you could cover your lovely bench table with burl and wabi bowl variants instead. Or a nice bowl a la Newman or Nehy's? *That or take up kickboxing.*


Bwahahaha, maybe I should! 



oldpunk78 said:


> You should just get a 60p and go dutch with it.





Francis Xavier said:


> The Mother Tree Suggests you populate other empty Glass asteroids for the colony.
> 
> Spread your seedlings!


You people are horrible enablers. :icon_sad:

The 60-p is a nice tank, but the size doesn't particularly speak to me. I'm only thinking about setting up the 15 gallon because it's there, and tbh I wouldn't feel as bad skimping on it. As much as I love the full shebang on the -s, I'm just not in the same position that I was when I got all of it, so going full out on another tank the size of a 60-P isn't really possible. 

Anyway, today I just have to clean up a few minor things with the -s, which I should hopefully have photos of afterwards.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Koi Kameon said:


> Not that I am sucking up to Frank already, but I agree. The burl and the wabi were nice, easy soothing, very different side projects. Brain vacation from Iwagumi. But the rest sound like they would possibly develop issues of their own and then you would be drinking heavily...Maybe you could cover your lovely bench table with burl and wabi bowl variants instead. Or a nice bowl a la Newman or Nehy's? That or take up kickboxing.


Koi, I would be happy to help you realize your dream aquarium - please send me a PM.


----------



## Dollface

If Frank can deal with me for years on end, I'm pretty sure he can handle anything anyone can throw at him by this point. :icon_roll


----------



## oldpunk78

Dollface said:


> You people are horrible enablers.


I know where you could pick up a 60p w/ stand and solar II cheap.


----------



## Dollface




----------



## Dollface

So during the maintenance I discovered what may have been causing a part of my recent algae woes. It turns out that one of the amano's kicked it behind the main rock in a place that's basically impossible to see. I found the remains while I was siphoning out some detritus right there, and it wasn't pretty. It was an ugly brown ball of algae covered horror, and it smelled even worse than it looked. I took the chance to catch the rest of the bugs and move them to my 40 breeder. They've wrought enough destruction at this point. 

Dosing today was 1 pump of Brighty K, 2 of Step 1, 5 drops of green bacter to help the filter rebound, 5 drops of phyton git, which I'll probably be stopping soon, and a dose of excel.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Perk up, she's coming along beautifully!

Next week look for a growth explosion as long as you keep the regime the same.


----------



## Chlorophile

Yay for progress!
Where are the cockatiels?


----------



## Koi Kameon

*Go slow Grasshopper!*



AaronMB said:


> Dollface - if you give as much attention to brainstorming your conundrums as you do your writing, things are bound to--at least eventually!--work out well.
> 
> This doesn't help at all with your dilemma, of course. Thanks, though, for a great thread. I've learned much and will enjoy continuing to do so.


 I agree with Aaron, especially about the great thread part, but being a pathological optimist myself, I know how easy it is to get in over your head suddenly and you're back at 10 different projects tearing your hair out. Go slow grasshopper! How much of this yearning for the 15 (?) is really a yearning for the damn Iwagumi to get going on working out...

And another damn, not to steal your line, but every time you post a pic of one of those bowls, I just want to track your apartment down and sneak in while you're at work and steal your bowls... Tried for mint at small fancy nursery. No go. Expanding search. Who knows maybe Lowe's has branched out into more than petunias Next up, looking up aquatic plants that can also grow emersed.


----------



## Koi Kameon

Francis Xavier said:


> Koi, I would be happy to help you realize your dream aquarium - please send me a PM.


 Frank,

I have a feeling you will have me crying on your shoulder in the near future.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Koi Kameon said:


> Frank,
> 
> I have a feeling you will have me crying on your shoulder in the near future.


Somehow or another all the women in the hobby end up crying on my shoulder! 

Maybe it has to do with my inherent magnetism?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Or maybe it's just ADA.


----------



## Dollface

Sorry, Frank, we're just in it for the tanks.


----------



## Francis Xavier

Maybe that'll be a pitch to stores:

The ladies love the ADA.


----------



## pejerrey

Francis Xavier said:


> Maybe that'll be a pitch to stores:
> 
> The ladies love the ADA.


The magic of "the FX method"


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Love it, your HC is going to start growing like crazy soon. Also, what camera are you shooting? Great pictures :thumbsup:



Francis Xavier said:


> Maybe that'll be a pitch to stores:
> 
> The ladies love the ADA.


Can I be on your ad? I can stand by my tank and Megan Fox can be trimming it, and I'll be like, "I get so much action now, thanks to my sweet, $450 all-ADA Mini S. ADA. The ladies love it."  :hihi: roud:


----------



## Dollface

Stuff like this is why there aren't more women in the hobby. /facepalm


----------



## Francis Xavier

You're right...we need more space trees.


----------



## Koi Kameon

*Back to the burl bowl--HD and Lowe's have chocolate mint!*

Tried various local nurseries (the whole shop local boutique thing) and no one had anything other than peppermint and lo and behold both Home Despot and Lowe's have chocolate mint (Mentha x piperita) from the same producer. Got mine for 3.48 at Lowe's. I have never smelled live mint other than "regular" and all that encompasses, so the lighter fragrance of the chocolate was an awesome surprise. Even if it doesn't work in my bowl, I like it. Feel accomplished. And a mea culpa to Lowe's about the petunia crack.

Frank--it's probably the tanks, but with a wee touch of empathy thrown in?


----------



## Dollface

So I made another WK today, here are some pictures of the process, since I've actually had a couple people ask. I've been looking into barley straw based on the information from Phil Edwards' legit ADA Wabi Kusa, but I haven't been able to readily find any locally, and since sphagnum seems to be working well, I went with that again as the base.









I started with a large handful of rinsed sphagnum









some small stones









Grab a handful of sphagnum and place the rocks in the center like you're making onigiri









Cover the rocks with a little bit more sphagnum, then form it into a small flattened ball with the rocks near the bottom. 









Wrap in moss cotton









Place your mess of plants on top, and wrap again.

The whole process takes less than 10 minutes, not including prep time. This one has a mix of some random rotala's + HM, with bits of riccia.


----------



## Dollface

Also, a quick comparison of ADA moss cotton with regular dark green 100% mercerized cotton thread










The ADA moss cotton is slightly thicker and seems more sturdy. It also seems to have more "grab" than the plain cotton thread. Usually when I'm tying knots, I can tighten them by tugging on the loose ends, and the cotton thread will slip and tighten up, the moss cotton does not. I can not say how it holds up underwater, as I haven't tried that yet. The cotton thread on my original WK is starting to break down after two? months, but is still mostly intact. ADA moss cotton is 8$ per 175 yards (I'm estimating based on spool size) vs 2-4$ per 225 yards (I forgot how much my spool cost). Not exactly worth it's own order from ADG but if you're picking up some driftwood from them it'd be easy to throw in, along with ADA Wood Tight, which I've been meaning to dedicate a post to for a while, because it's basically my new favorite thing.


----------



## FlyingGiraffes

Nice seeing you at the meet. Where's that fat bag of plants going, the 40b?


----------



## Dollface

The giant bag of crypts is going to the 40 breeder, yeah.


----------



## Dollface

And a throwaway shot of the sill where everyone was chillin' out today










I got the do!aqua vase in my last order from frank, along with the be green and spring washer. This wasn't actually the style that I had ordered, that one was out of stock, along with be bright, so Frank sent me this random one, and the be green, which is ostensibly the same. TBH, when I first pulled this vase out of the box, I was kind of like, "Wow, this thing is ugly. He could have at least sent me a polka or a lotus or SOMETHING." But, I gotta admit, with the plant ball in there, it actually looks kind of cute. It's still probably my least favorite plant glass, but that's kind of like saying that strawberry is my least favorite ice cream. I'm still eating ice cream, and it's almost impossible to feel disappointed about ice cream.


----------



## Dollface

Finally, if anyone has ever wondered what my signature (and my icon currently) is a reference to, it's this particular stage in We <3 Katamari, the sequel to Katamari Damacy, both on the ps2.

If you've never played it before, well, it's a Japanese ball rolling simulator. You roll a ball, and It's very Japanese.


----------



## frrok

very cool. i cant wait to start my own version of wabi-kusa.


----------



## Dollface

They're pretty awesome. I'm hoping the stems do as well as the other one, since the growth has almost doubled in under a month, looking at my older photo.


----------



## greenman857

that's cool! 
I usually use fishing line as it is practically invisible, and for better or worse, they don't disintegrate.
I usually keep my Wabi in a really humid environment for a while as that really stimulates growth especially of the moss!
Here's a link to a place that sell Barley online
http://www.gardeners.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Gardeners-Site/default/Search-Show?q=barley straw
I definitely gonna order some to try.


----------



## oldpunk78

Not as cool as the ones found in this thread, but I found one in a river yesterday.


----------



## oldpunk78

Ops


----------



## greenman857

Well yeah!?
That is a perfect example. The tree/shrub on the right with its vertical lines is off set by the piece of driftwood on the left. The DHG and moss in the middle tie the whole piece together, and yet there is a certain wildness about it, I'm not sure why...;-)
And don't know what it's made of but it's no doubt just thrown together.


----------



## Dollface

That's awesome, where did you find that one? Is it just a clump of earth that's stuck on some dw?


----------



## oldpunk78

Dollface said:


> That's awesome, where did you find that one? Is it just a clump of earth that's stuck on some dw?


Ya, just a clump of moss and some earth and grass stuck on stump that floated down-stream. That's an alder tree growing on it.

I found it here:










The Stanislaus river.


----------



## Koi Kameon

*Those things are EVERYWHERE in rivers around here...*

I've only read a couple of Amano's books from the library and totally got he goes down to the rivers, etc., for his ideas, and unless I am totally mistaken, he saw these natural wabi kusas and saw money...Went down a river yesterday and at first was fascinated by them growing in old tree stumps and on logs and was collecting things like lichen, etc., to maybe make my burl bowl totally natural. Some of them were truly beautiful and outdid what I have seen of the official Amanos in symmetry, etc. Well, the two hour trip turned into 6 1/2 hours of, to be blunt, hell. My friends wound up with snake bite, broken padddle, lost paddle, you name it, a river that never went straight when it could bend and I got so sick of seeing hundreds, perhaps thousands of these that it totally dimmed my appreciation of them (the trip did it) and so Amano must be making boatloads of money off something that people can just go down to the river and transfer into their bowls...It's funny, bc I have always seen them when in boats on rivers, but not until I just got interested in burl bowls that yesterday I REALLY saw them and saw them and saw them...I realize that people without great access to the great outdoors (complete with startled, crabby water snakes) would not be able to do this easily, but I was again amazed at Amano's marketing genius...

P.S. Thanks for the step-by-step Dollface in case I go beyond a burl, but right now, today, i don't even want to look at the aquarium, let alone think of the burl bowl...I actually hate water today.


----------



## greenman857

Well, I live in a pretty natural area in Vermont , with lots of woods and streams, wil ferns etc. I find that I'm fascinated with the Wabi concept as it is ,
1) like a tiny slice of nature
2)made up of Aquatic/Marsh/Bogs plants which are unusual
3) a mostly undefined concept at this point (in the US?)
4) snake free ;-)


----------



## Dollface

greenman857 said:


> Well, I live in a pretty natural area in Vermont , with lots of woods and streams, wil ferns etc. I find that I'm fascinated with the Wabi concept as it is ,
> 1) like a tiny slice of nature
> 2)made up of Aquatic/Marsh/Bogs plants which are unusual
> 3) a mostly undefined concept at this point (in the US?)
> 4) snake free ;-)


1) Aquariums in general are a slice of nature. One of Frank's internal meme's in all his threads is that aquariums are a microcosm of greater aquatic ecosystems in handy dandy fun sized boxes. 

2) ADA wabi kusa utilize exclusively aquatic plants grown emersed. The whole wild collected/bog plant myth is, well, a myth. I've never actually had/seen a wild collected plant "wabi kusa" do well. ADA actually markets them as an alternative to traditionally grown aquatic plants, sort of like how hobbyists in the west attempt to utilize dry starts, only you can buy the WK already grown in. 

3) Wabi Kusa is very clearly defined, patented, and trademarked by ADA. The only murkiness comes from misconceptions in the US hobby that have been repeated so many times they're treated as facts. 

4) I can't argue with that.


----------



## Dollface

Koi Kameon said:


> I've only read a couple of Amano's books from the library and totally got he goes down to the rivers, etc., for his ideas, and unless I am totally mistaken, he saw these natural wabi kusas and saw money...Went down a river yesterday and at first was fascinated by them growing in old tree stumps and on logs and was collecting things like lichen, etc., to maybe make my burl bowl totally natural. Some of them were truly beautiful and outdid what I have seen of the official Amanos in symmetry, etc. Well, the two hour trip turned into 6 1/2 hours of, to be blunt, hell. My friends wound up with snake bite, broken padddle, lost paddle, you name it, a river that never went straight when it could bend and I got so sick of seeing hundreds, perhaps thousands of these that it totally dimmed my appreciation of them (the trip did it) and so Amano must be making boatloads of money off something that people can just go down to the river and transfer into their bowls...It's funny, bc I have always seen them when in boats on rivers, but not until I just got interested in burl bowls that yesterday I REALLY saw them and saw them and saw them...I realize that people without great access to the great outdoors (complete with startled, crabby water snakes) would not be able to do this easily, but I was again amazed at Amano's marketing genius...
> 
> P.S. Thanks for the step-by-step Dollface in case I go beyond a burl, but right now, today, i don't even want to look at the aquarium, let alone think of the burl bowl...I actually hate water today.


I've learned through trial and a whole lot of error that nothing is usually as easy as nature makes it seem. :icon_lol: You can't really go down to a creek or something and grab any old clump of dirt and bring it back, since it'll usually die off within the week. It's like the adage of putting a lot of effort into making something look effortless. You can definitely take inspiration from those kinds of things, but a lot of times they're harder to replicate than you'd think. Like the WK, they're made and grown specifically for their plant ball-y purpose.


----------



## Koi Kameon

*clarification*

need to clarify that i wrote the above in reference to the pic of the wabi kusa "look" in photo from above in an attempt to say that I believe he was inspired (based on what I have been able to read in his books) by these exact things he has seen in streams and lakes in Japan. I realized that he made the term and uses aquatic plants and not like say, in the wild, grass seed that happened to land on dirt on an aged stump, but he is a marketing genius in thinking to do this. And is making a boat-load of money, which--hey he's a visionary entrepeneur so he can. I have seen lichen in terrariums, so was talking about trying an all-nature burl based on the plants at the water line and not the grass-like plants, but after the canoe trip from hell where the cute boyfriend gets bit by crabby startled snake and no one can remember if there are one or two types of poisonous snakes near water around here-one being the rattlesnake and that wasn't it--etc., etc., my enthusiasm for all things aquatic took a nose-dive. i was an exhausted and crabby human when writing my earlier post upon seeing a pic representing my very bad previous day and did not express myself as well as i should have. and yes, with amano, i'm assuming nature without the snakes :icon_smil:icon_smil


----------



## Dollface

Oh, I know exactly what you mean, I'm having a bit of an "I hate water" day myself after being elbow deep in my tank and then my pond for hours on end. A lot of people take being inspired by nature to mean that you just go out and grab a bunch of it and bam, instant gratification. I think most of the time, while it take a bit more effort to emulate the result than just taking it, it's usually more successful, and more sastifying. And of course, there's rarely any snakes. 

Or ants.

God I hate ants.


----------



## greenman857

Here's what I mean, this assemblage is a group of at least 4 plants, growing into a tiny ecosystem or habitat? 
It consists of several traditional plants and some unknown mosses.
It is plants wrapped around a rock, so that isn't a Wabi-kusa, a Wabi-rock?, Wabi-Ishi (Wabi-pebble?) or what is it?
Maybe just some plants wrapped around a rock, but I still think its pretty cool.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48336&stc=1&d=1338385101

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48337&stc=1&d=1338387618

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48338&stc=1&d=1338387744

more to come....


----------



## albirdy

those look pretty cool.


----------



## Dollface

I may have to start a separate thread for wabi-chan and kusa-kun* since -s-san is becoming so ignored.

*apparently lack of sleep leads to moeifying my tanks? If I start drawing ada-tans, send help. And ambien.


----------



## Dollface

Sigh.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

This should be cool... What size is that? 25, 30 cm?

How is the glass clarity on the D!A compared to ADA?


----------



## Francis Xavier

Judging on the scale of the photograph - it's a 20C.


----------



## greenman857

Yeah,
For an aquarist, an empty aquarium is like 
a blank canvas to an painter!


----------



## @[email protected]

did you give up on your mini-s?


----------



## Ozydego

I saw another thread on the glass differences, and the ADA glass was much less green. but I could not see a clarity difference, but the guy posting said it was a big difference


----------



## Dollface

@[email protected] said:


> did you give up on your mini-s?


Well, maybe, but that's not what the -c is about. It's for my mother, who's been asking for another tank in her room after I took down the -m that was in there.


----------



## Dollface

So TBH guys this past week/end has positively knocked me out. I haven't turned on the -s in ... four days. At least. I can't even remember how long it's been At this point, I'm legitimately considering taking it down. It's not even doing badly, I just ... ugh.


----------



## frrok

Dollface said:


> So TBH guys this past week/end has positively knocked me out. I haven't turned on the -s in ... four days. At least. I can't even remember how long it's been At this point, I'm legitimately considering taking it down. It's not even doing badly, I just ... ugh.


I totally understand your frustration. Sometimes it's just better to say Eff it and start over. It's a small enough tank that it's possible without it being a massive headache. This time start over slowly and do it the right way. Or not and start that c for your mom. You might feel better about it, if it's not actually "your" tank.


----------



## oldpunk78

Dollface said:


> So TBH guys this past week/end has positively knocked me out. I haven't turned on the -s in ... four days. At least. I can't even remember how long it's been At this point, I'm legitimately considering taking it down. It's not even doing badly, I just ... ugh.


I know how to fix this 

It's quite simple really. Just drop the tank and light off with oldpunk. You'd probably feel even better if it was received with some new aquasoil and some scaping stones. 

Just sayin...


----------



## Dollface

Oh lawdy

So I turned the tank on today, finally. It looks exactly the same as it did last time, trust me.

In more eventful news, I picked up a paintball canister today, and am now attempting to troubleshoot my little jaggedfury style reg that I got a while ago in a tank deal. I need to replace some o-rings, but hopefully after that it should be good to go. Assuming it doesn't somehow explode in my face, which considering the way my day is going is a legitimate possibility.


----------



## Dollface

I've been fighting with my white balance settings lately so have some really wonky shots. 









The bench looking far less staged than usual. Ignore the random rock that wabi-chan is sitting on, the small amount of water that was in there previously was getting stagnant too quickly, so I had to prop her up a bit to get some more volume in there.









Dramatic angle of the rack. I got the paintball regulator working, and I've switched over it for the time being to test out it's viability. I still love the advance with all my heart, but I just wish the cartridges lasted longer.

And now, for what I was doing all week instead of working on tanks:


----------



## oldpunk78

What are those origami ball looking things?


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## frrok

random question... did you use a garden mat under the -s? or some other similar "mat" neoprene thing. pretty sure i told you I was getting the same rack. I like that shot by the way. shows the guts of the operation.


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## Dollface

oldpunk78 said:


> What are those origami ball looking things?


Origami balls.

They're modular sonobe unit assemblies, using the Japanese Brocade sonobe variation.



frrok said:


> random question... did you use a garden mat under the -s? or some other similar "mat" neoprene thing. pretty sure i told you I was getting the same rack. I like that shot by the way. shows the guts of the operation.


Yes. It's also sitting on the solar mini base. Otherwise I usually have a piece of sturdy cardboard (attractive, I know) and then either a garden mat layer, or a layer or two of craft foam, which you can see on the 45-f in that shot.


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## oldpunk78

Dollface said:


> Origami balls.
> 
> They're modular sonobe unit assemblies, using the Japanese Brocade sonobe variation.


Those look really hard. Birds, boxes, frogs, bugs, ext.. I can do those. But dang! How long do those take?


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## Dollface

oldpunk78 said:


> Those look really hard. Birds, boxes, frogs, bugs, ext.. I can do those. But dang! How long do those take?


Not really, actually. Sonobe units are just singular parallelograms, which you can then assemble into various geometric forms depending on the number of units, hence the modular part. I did say modular right. 










The big one in the front uses 12 of these units, the one behind it is made of 6.

Most of the time is in folding all of the individual units. Usually I make 30 unit icosahedrons which take a couple hours, depending on how complicated the individual units are. Actual assembly takes like 5-10 minutes.


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## Dollface

Kusa-kun looking quite dashing.


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## Dollface

Before you view the next picture I need you all to stare very intently into this:










This is my first time with riccia, so I'm a little iffy on the growth patterns and how to sculpt it. My instinct right now has been to keep it trimmed down mercilessly, but that's kind of my instinct with almost everything. Too many years of hair grass. 

The paintball set up is doing extremely well. The only problem is that I either have to leave it on 24/7 or try and very carefully turn it off at night and then dial it in again in the morning, which nearly resulted in the check valve attaining low earth orbit today, so right now it's a trade off between ease of use of the advance vs. the cheaper to maintain paintball system.


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## Ozydego

Maybe something like this is in order... http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Instruments-Solenoid-Diaphragm-Valve/dp/B000EOOPXU/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1338699870&sr=8-7


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## freph

Ozydego said:


> Maybe something like this is in order... http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Instruments-Solenoid-Diaphragm-Valve/dp/B000EOOPXU/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1338699870&sr=8-7


That and/or I think GLA sells an actual regulator (albeit a bit pricey, but there's one version with a solenoid and one without) that hooks directly onto paintball tanks as opposed to an ASA valve setup. I'm still quite content with my little $85 single stage rig, though.

High PSI check valve bullets are fun, eh? The 'kusa bowls look great and that riccia definitely shows some hope.


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## Dollface

I looked at the GLA paintball reg a while back but for the cost at the time I would've just gone for a full regulator, but since I didn't particularly have a need for pressurized at the time, it didn't happen. The paintball rig now is simply because I had it laying around, and why the hell not.


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## plantbrain

Riccia is a fun weed, there's a number of tricks, but trimming 2-4x a month is often the case. Some simply retie after it gets too big, pulls off etc,m a week after, it looks good again.


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## Koi Kameon

*Tell us more about this please*



greenman857 said:


> Here's what I mean, this assemblage is a group of at least 4 plants, growing into a tiny ecosystem or habitat?
> It consists of several traditional plants and some unknown mosses.
> It is plants wrapped around a rock, so that isn't a Wabi-kusa, a Wabi-rock?, Wabi-Ishi (Wabi-pebble?) or what is it?
> Maybe just some plants wrapped around a rock, but I still think its pretty cool.
> 
> more to come....


 The plants, the process, the whole she-bang...


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## Koi Kameon

Dollface said:


> I've been fighting with my white balance settings lately so have some really wonky shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bench looking far less staged than usual. Ignore the random rock that wabi-chan is sitting on, the small amount of water that was in there previously was getting stagnant too quickly, so I had to prop her up a bit to get some more volume in there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dramatic angle of the rack. I got the paintball regulator working, and I've switched over it for the time being to test out it's viability. I still love the advance with all my heart, but I just wish the cartridges lasted longer.


 Stop tormenting me with your creativity woman! Still not recovered from canoe trip/hating water, barely looking at what I've got and was seriously thinking of setting the moss, chocolate mint, maybe some giant baby tears up on a rock instead of a burl since haven't been able to get to beach for driftwood and after the river, wood=slime in my mind. Tentatively get on your thread tonight and what do I see? Your wabi-chan perched artistically on top of a rock! And now I need to look up wabi-chan...Is there no end to the names of small Japanese bits of manipulated/masterful copies of nature???? And now more plant names to ask for and look up. Sigh...And the clay bowl is a kusa-kan??


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## Dollface

Hah, the rock pedestal is anything but "artistic". It's just kind of ham-handedly plopped in there. Wabi-chan and Kusa-kun are just the nicknames for the plant balls prompted by too much anime and too little sleep. It sounded, dare I say, more _~Kawaii~_ than, idk, Bob and Alice.

Anyway, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do something like the burl on a rock. Besides, you don't want to use actual driftwood as, well, driftwood, because it has the possibility of bringing a whole cadre of pests and possibly even toxic chemicals from outside. I collect all mine dead and dry from my back yard, which I know is chemical free. Ant free is another matter though /shudder


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## radioman

I usually do what Tom was saying. I pull it out and tie it down again. If I don't it like to pull itself out when I cut it. I might just be letting it get to long though.


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## Dollface

So here's what it's looking like the scape for the -c will be.


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## Koi Kameon

*Kinda Wabi Kusa*

Anyway, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do something like the burl on a rock. Besides, you don't want to use actual driftwood as, well, driftwood, because it has the possibility of bringing a whole cadre of pests and possibly even toxic chemicals from outside. I collect all mine dead and dry from my back yard, which I know is chemical free. Ant free is another matter though /shudder[/QUOTE]
Feeling frustated last Thurs. at my lack of access to the beach driftwood (I would boil it just like I do my cholla wood for the crab tank for critters and such), I did the old what-do-I-have-on-hand thing, and wound up putting Carib Sea Natural sand mixed with crushed quartz "decor sand" to hopefully keep the anerobic bacteria down into a 4" by 1 1/2" tall terra cotta plant saucer. I went to the rock pile outside and picked out a rounded grey rock to fit inside. I topped it with water to the rim of the saucer and added 3 frogbit. I top the water off each evening as the saucer is not glazed inside. I put a tiny bit of liquid aquatic plant fertilzer in it. I love it. I am calling it my Kinda Wabi Kusa. And if it runs its course? So much easier to take down than the obnoxious crab tank will be...So, thanks for the thread. You brought me some peace.


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## Geniusdudekiran

I was just wondering where you bought your patterned origami paper, it looks very authentic. But then again you live in Cali, you may have just gotten it in Japantown. Lucky!


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## frrok

Any update? Did you break down the -s... How is the -c doing? Pics!


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## Koi Kameon

yes, update please.


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