# Floating Riccia?



## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

looks like riccia to me


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

scolley said:


> And it invading my glosso like a weed!


 Thats because riccia is a weed Steve. roud:


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks guys. That answers it. But...

1) My regular riccia doesn't look like that. Similar, but not the same - bright green, shorter thicker stems, and float's like nobody's business.

2) Is this happening now just because it has something near by where it can change into this "sinking" form?

3) Is to moral of this story to not put your riccia next to something like a tight ground cover that it can spread into? Because it's a weed?

Thanks.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

That is what I would call "sinking Riccia". Not the most attractive plant, is it?

Mike


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

It's ugly! Looks algae covered (but not) and is digging its way into my lovely new glosso.

I see that my future has some quality time with long tweezers in my hand and my arm in the tank. This is definately a Saturday afternoon "two beer" infestation if I ever saw one! :hihi:


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

This discussion is mostly between mini riccia and normal riccia. But here is someones take on sinking riccia:



> There's also another mystery concerning Riccia fluitans. When they have been grown submersed for a while, Riccia fluitans sometimes mutate into another form. They became darker and unlike normal Riccia which floats, the mutated dark form sinks. Here's a pic [last picture of first post] comparing the normal Riccia against its darker form.





> Someone on the APD once said that the dark sinking Riccia is actually another species called Riccia rhenana. But I have never heard of seen such a plant before.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Sorry folks, I should have created this pic first. My floating riccia on the left, the new sinking stuff taking over my glosso on the right.










This appears to be plain old garden variety Riccia, taking on its sinking form. Thanks Rolo for the link on this topic! I do not think it is a new form of riccia introduced to my tank, purely because the stuff is thick by my riccia, and fans out into my glosso, getting less dense the further it is from my riccia covered rock.

Time for the tweezers.  

Buck - I sent you some of this. Better keep an eye on that riccia!


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Speaking of different forms of riccia, I have what I thought was normal riccia hitchhike new plants last week. After a week of floating and growing this riccia still looks very different from yours, Scolley. Forks are much more compact and overall everything is smaller. I'm guessing I got the mini variation. Anyone agree?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

I'm no botanist, so I can't confirm that what you've got is mini-riccia. But I can tell you for sure that it is MUCH smaller than any of mine.

Got any pics of it in a large clump? Does it look any better than "normal" riccia?


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Unfortunately that clump is as big as it is for now. It's growing pretty fast though, I started with a tiny frag like the one nearest the penny.

As far as looks, not sure what I would like better. This is my first time with _any_ type of riccia. All I do know is mini-riccia is supposedly more sought after, so maybe it has better looks.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Please let us know what that winds up looking like for you Rolo. But you better watch it. If that stuff changes on you and starts doing its sinking weed thing like my riccia is, with that little stuff, your gonna have a nightmare on your hands!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

For the record. It didn't take two hours, it only took 90 minute s pick all that stuff out. And I'm sure I missed some because I wound up pullin up riccia to get at the stuff, it was so intertwined!

Kinda puts you off riccia if is comes to this...


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

Ok, I have a bit to add here. A friend of mine has had a group of riccia in his tank for a long time, but this is in an out-door tank specific for breeding fish. That tank is simply filled with moss and riccia. A huge group of riccia however, has sunk all on its own-- while RETAINING the bright, bright green we expect from riccia. I moved some to my 5g, and it still sinks, and is still bright bright green. Mine only grows thicker and grows up, not outwards.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Wow! Greenmiddlefinger - you looking to sell some of that?


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

Sure, I'll pm you


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Could lighting and water conditions effect the growth or is it an entirely different variety ?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Now I'm confused...

I knew that some (maybe all, but who knows) riccia could shift from a floating form, to a sinking form. Mine, it would appear, has done that sinking form shift, which is both unattractive and invasive.

Greenmiddlefinger seems to have something that looks like "normal" riccia, but doesn't float. Wouldn't that be the riccia holy grail? Or is there some way that "lighting and water conditions" could make all garden variety behave this way? I was not aware of any thinking along these lines...

I thought it was something that just happened with time, or it didn't. I didn't know there was some way to manipulate this by tinkering with conditions.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Any bits of Riccia that you don't want where you don't want them are invasive, Scolley, regardless of the type. It is just that kind of plant by nature.

Mike


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Invasive is the word for Riccia...in some ways it's even worse than duckweed. But it makes a fantastic safe haven for my Cherry Shrimp babies.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Understood Peach Boy San, but bits here and there in your plants, high in the water column is one thing. Even the endless skimming of the surface for floating bits is OK. But spending hours (OK, only 90 minutes) pulling scraggly, dark green bits out of the roots of your ground cover is another.

As Buck said... this stuff is indeed a weed!


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Domo, Scolley! :hihi: 

Picking it out of Blyxa japonica or tweezing it out of Bolbitus is no party either!  

Mike


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

You can add separating it out of HC to the PITA things to do list.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

*Update*

It's a few months after some of my riccia took on it's submerged form. And I'm still picking the stuff out of my plants on a weekly basis. And it doesn't float at all either, one little bit of it breaking off an drifting away is a guarantee of spread.

Between this, and an accidental death of a Blue Ram caught in a riccia holding hair net (yes, I know, my fault :icon_frow ), I've given up on riccia. The only bits left are the submerged weed form that I still have to pull out every week.

I hate that stuff.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

To me, I don't find its appearance any more offensive than that of Pellia...same dark green color and all. Is it just that its fine texture makes it appear more algae like that causes everyone to dislike it so much?


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

You've got a good point Bill. I suppose it might not be so bad, as long as there wasn't too much of it. My problem is my fear of how far it will spread, and how dense it will get. It's pretty invasive stuff.

If you let it go, will it not get too dense? I've got no experience with that, and am hesitant to try without some guidance from folks with more experience with this stuff.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

I let it go in my tank for a few months or so. It just grows in dark green puffs. It doens't morph into something that starts sending out runners or anything like that, so maintenance is the same as for regular riccia.

Looking back, I should have tied some of it to a rock and used it as an accent piece. All I have is a few fronds left...hmmmm...


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Just as an update, I am getting the sinking form undercontrol But it has tanken weekly pruning, and teasing little bits out of other plants with tweezers. I may eventually get all of it.

But that could just be foolish thinking. I got rid of my normal floating form. But at _every _ weekly water change I find a bit or two floating at the top!

Amazing stuff really. Gotta respect it, even if you don't love it.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

These articles might be of interest to you, Steve.
Riccia fluitans in the submerged form 
The various varieties of Riccia fluitans

From the first article...


> Under certain circumstances, Riccia develops a dark green, transparent form that lacks aerenchyma or air filled pores. This form is heavier than water and sinks to the bottom of the aquarium. The heavy, dark green form is though to be a hibernating winter form since it avoids freezing by sinking to the bottom.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks Joan. Tropica is a great site! But I must confess, I'd not read that. But it sure describes what I have. And believe me, once you get it, it is _hard _ to get rid of.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

Tropica is a great site! As I am currently coveting a rolling Riccia "field" somewhere in a future aquascape, I came across those articles a couple days ago. Reading this thread certainly makes me question if it is wise, ah, but I covet it still. What's a girl to do? :icon_bigg


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Go for it! I hate the stuff now, but _it is _ beautiful!


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

I ended up pulling out my Marselia forground to get all the sinking Riccia bits in my 125g, but for giggles I tied some to a small rock to see if I could cultivate it into a micro-pellia look. Alas, after a couple of weeks half of the new growth has returned to the bright green, floating state. So now it looks like I have sinking Riccia with highlights.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Maybe thats why I keep finding bits of floating riccia still at the surface of my tank - dark green sinking stuff periodically throwing off bits of the "normal" stuff.


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