# ADA Red Bee Shrimp Food



## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

Got myself some ADA Red Bee Shrimp Food after running out a month ago. Had to wait to get some in! Put in some extra overtime at work to pay for these. Pretty darn expensive but shrimps are happy eating it. They're $28.00 a bottle with tax. Decided to grab 2 bottles, should last the rest of the year and a little bit more. 




















Anyone else feeding their shrimps these? Any noticeable change in behavior? mood? activitiness?


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## FlSHRFun (Jun 26, 2010)

I just started a new tank... letting it cycle at the moment.
Once it's done cycling, I intend to add some shrimps and plan to feed them ADA Red Bee Shrimp food.

I'm very fortunate to be very close to Aquarium Design Group in Houston.
Frank @ ADG let me watch him feed some Amanos with the Bee food. They went absolutely nuts for it!
I've never seen Amanos behave in such a way. They really, really love this stuff!
Before, I've seen Amanos swarm over a single piece of food, sharing it.
However, Amanos want the Bee food all for themselves.
They were fighting over it, stealing from one another, and swimming away with it & hiding.
It was very amusing watching the Amanos eat the Bee food.


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

My Amanos did the same thing. They would grab hold of the square piece and takes off with it leaving my Crystals with none lol. I had to put extra so my greedy Amanos dont take off with it once they get their own. Try it out when you have your setup done cycling, let me know how it goes. I don't know if alot of people uses this but doesn't seems like it and glad to hear people's experiences with it.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

28 USD  That's a high premium you are paying for ADA food. I never knew it was that expensive overseas.

Unfortunately, I cannot really comment on different kinds of food, because ADA bee shrimp food was the only thing I have been feeding my shrimp. They do seem to go crazy over it, however.


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

Yepp it's up there in price. I guess it's supply and demand. It is an awesome food though! How much do you guys get them over in Gunma?


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## Crispino L Ramos (Mar 29, 2008)

my amanos did go crazy for hikari crab cuisine, they snatch a pellet and take it where they can devour it without getting disturbed.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

I just ordered the 7 gram bottle on Monday for my CRS. I'll keep you posted on how they react to it. I read some favorable stuff about it on the shrimpnow forum (if you aren't already a member, I suggest you register ASAP).

BTW, last night I gave my crystals some Hikari Discus Bio Gold food (min protein 50%, very high quality stuff, all my fish LOVE it) and they went absolutely nuts for it. There is a bit a copper in it though, but probably not any more than the Hikari shrimp cuisine.


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

I was attracted to it because it contained Aqua Soil Amazonia within the food itself. Since my CRS has always been in Aqua Soil Amazonia, I thought I get myself one and try it out. 3 Bottle a year isn't too bad.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

I think it's funny how they sweep up whatever crap is left over from their aquasoil production and throw it in the food and charge a premium for it ; ) $30 for a bottle of shrimp food with dirt in it?


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## FlSHRFun (Jun 26, 2010)

justlikeapill said:


> I think it's funny how they sweep up whatever crap is left over from their aquasoil production and throw it in the food and charge a premium for it ; ) $30 for a bottle of shrimp food with dirt in it?


You really have to take into consideration the quality product that AquaSoil already is.
AquaSoil is rich is nutrients and is more than just "dirt".

Also, if you read the ingredient list (which is always labeled in order of most abundant to least abundant), AquaSoil is last.
There is a relatively low concentration of AquaSoil in the product.
It's not like you're eating an 8 oz. steak with 8 oz. of "dirt" on the side.


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

justlikeapill said:


> I think it's funny how they sweep up whatever crap is left over from their aquasoil production and throw it in the food and charge a premium for it ; ) $30 for a bottle of shrimp food with dirt in it?


mmm... tasty


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

There is one reason, and one reason only why AquaSoil is in Red Bee Shrimp food - because of how nutrient packed it is. Like was stated before, it's not exactly feeding shrimp 'dirt.' I think many people under-estimate just how nutrient rich aquasoil is.

I really have never seen shrimp react to any other foods quite like they do with the Red Bee Shrimp food. It's pretty out of this world. Maybe I'll take a quick video of it next time. 

Remember that a little bit goes a long way too - in a tank 20 gallons or so and under with more than a single pellet once a week. I tend to break mine up into pieces (as FISHRFun saw) and feed that way. The initial reaction is they go nuts over it, but if you do feed too much the shrimp can't eat it all so you get leftover that goes to waste. With a colony of 10-15 or so shrimp I don't feed more than half a pellet. So it all goes a pretty long way. Obviously if you have very large colonies you'll go through food faster.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Jaggedfury said:


> Yepp it's up there in price. I guess it's supply and demand. It is an awesome food though! How much do you guys get them over in Gunma?


I have to go down to Tokyo to get it, but when I last went, it was maybe the equivalent of 16 USD or so.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

Most shrimp keepers seem to use aquasoil anyway... So why not just let te shrimp eat aquasoil particles as they fiorage and feed food like Mosura?


Of is this a way of tricking them to eat aquasoil and they don't normally eat it? Like putting cheese on broccoli for a kid.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

It's just like other companies adding minerals. Just because ADA doesn't trick you by saying "calcium, magnesium, zinc", or using standardized extracts of minerals, etc etc. As a shrimp food maker, I'd much rather just put "montromillonite clay" on my ingredient list then go out and purchase separate minerals and add them in minuscule amounts to the recipe. The end result is the same though... I think aquasoil is just uncalcined clay from volcanic forest regions in Japan. Shoot, clay helps in HUMAN digestion as well. 

The end point is: ADA is doing nothing wrong by adding their "aquasoil" to their product. They're simply adding a 100% natural ingredient full of nutrients into their food product. And it's in no way a filler, come on, it's listed further on the list than "binding agent" and "vitamins".


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

FlSHRFun said:


> I just started a new tank... letting it cycle at the moment.
> Once it's done cycling, I intend to add some shrimps and plan to feed them ADA Red Bee Shrimp food.
> 
> I'm very fortunate to be very close to Aquarium Design Group in Houston.
> ...



If you have nothing to really compare it to, or something not particularly appropriate, then sure.....this should do better. However........if you do have a wider range of food experiences.....then you do. 

Mine do this for the 11$ a 1lb bag of Aquatic eco systems spirulina sticks, I reckon that will last several years and it has no MSG, unlike many sinking wafers. Not sure what is in any of the other brands since many do not list ingredients.

28$ for a little bottle of food is tad steep.
As if there's some critical research done on shrimps for food other than the farm raise prawn industry, I see little other than anecdotal experiences.

"-rain" also posted how to make shrimp biscuits and there are many DIY versions, this allows you to see which they have a preference for.

Shelled peas are also excellent food.

Etc........

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

snausage said:


> I just ordered the 7 gram bottle on Monday for my CRS. I'll keep you posted on how they react to it. I read some favorable stuff about it on the shrimpnow forum (if you aren't already a member, I suggest you register ASAP).
> 
> BTW, last night I gave my crystals some Hikari Discus Bio Gold food (min protein 50%, very high quality stuff, all my fish LOVE it) and they went absolutely nuts for it. There is a bit a copper in it though, but probably not any more than the Hikari shrimp cuisine.


Doesn't Hikari add MSG to their foods?

http://www.hikariusa.com/products/tropical/tropical_sinking_wafers.html

Says so right there in all the labelsroud:

Do people read the labels or just trust and assume the brands must be good?
I do not eat MSG, nor do my fish/shrimp.

ADA?
No clue..........nothing is labeled there.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> ADA?
> No clue..........nothing is labeled there.
> 
> 
> ...


Ingredients: Imported fish meal, Krill meal, Squid meal, Wheat flour, Soybean, Spinach, Marine Algae, Spirulina, Torula yeast, Bonding agent, Chitin, Carotenoid, Multi-vitamins and mineral, Aqua Soil- Amazonia, Guarranteed Analysis: Crude protein: 48% (Min.) Crude Fat: 4% (Min.) Crude Fiber: 4% (Max.) Crude Ash: 16% (Max.) Moisture: 8% (Max.)


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

FlSHRFun said:


> You really have to take into consideration the quality product that AquaSoil already is.
> AquaSoil is rich is nutrients and is more than just "dirt".
> 
> Also, if you read the ingredient list (which is always labeled in order of most abundant to least abundant), AquaSoil is last.
> ...


It's clay wetland type soil, the same type used in rice patties and in the central valley delta regions. Nothing special.

We got a few billion cubic yards of it in CA alone.

They do roll and dry it to a specific grain size/moisture content etc......add some NH4, but not much else is different as far as nutrients and trace elements. I use it and buy for this reason and aesthetics alone.

The clay soil is likely used as binder for the food, not really that clever, but if you do not know what ADA AS is.........then you might think so.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

I'd love to lower the price. But we are required to "play nice."


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Francis Xavier said:


> I'd love to lower the price. But we are required to "play nice."


You should play nice for us too so the people who would like to sample the stuff don't have to sell out 30 bucks for 30g lol


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

msnikkistar said:


> Ingredients: Imported fish meal, Krill meal, Squid meal, Wheat flour, Soybean, Spinach, Marine Algae, Spirulina, Torula yeast, Bonding agent, Chitin, Carotenoid, Multi-vitamins and mineral, Aqua Soil- Amazonia, Guarranteed Analysis: Crude protein: 48% (Min.) Crude Fat: 4% (Min.) Crude Fiber: 4% (Max.) Crude Ash: 16% (Max.) Moisture: 8% (Max.)


What is "bonding agent"?
Looks to be better than the Hikari stuff.
MSG could be labeled as bonding agent, but....it really is an unknown.

They have clay(soil), they have marine algae, wheat flour........all can be used in that capacity. So what is this bonding agent?

The product I've used for about 15 years and had good results with has

INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR, WHEAT, OAT FLOURS AND GLUTEN, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, SHRIMP MEAL, PLANKTON MEAL, DRIED KELP, FISH OIL, LECITHIN, DRIED KRILL. THE FOLLOWING VITAMINS SUPPLEMENTS: A, D-3, B12, & BIOTIN, METHIONINE, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C)
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 3.0% MIN., CRUDE FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. 

Ken's sells it cheaper than Aquatic Eco also:

http://www.kensfish.com/kenssticks.html

9.75$ a pound, or ~45$ for 5 pounds.

I use them mostly for plecos, but the shrimp tend to steal them, so I have to feed a lot. In my shrimp tanks, they get a few.

Still, I know what's in the food here. I am none too fond of MSG and other junk they add to fish foods. Clay is commonly added to Koi foods to improve color from the minerals like Mg, Ca mostly......many Koi poonds are hard bottom, so they have less access to clay than they might in a nice clay lined pond. 

Seems like they added this to shrimp foods with the same idea in mind, but.......I'm not so sure there's any real evidence to it, still, it should not hurt, but simply using ADA AS or a clay soil should end up in their belly either way, no need to add it in the food if the sediment is made from it.

In general, over priced name brand foods have not been better for breeding, many/most breeders and commercial operations do not use such products. They make it themselves or buy bulk.

Lots cheaper, much like buying KNO3 vs Seachem Nitrogen.
If you want some to try, let me know.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Francis Xavier said:


> I'd love to lower the price. But we are required to "play nice."


It is 45X more expensive than what I use. So why is it better than what I am using? Being nice does not mean you do not engage in a non personal debate about the topic.

I'm trying to see what is in the ADA product that makes it any better other options that are admittedly far cheaper and contain similar components.

It is my money. I can justify the ADA AS, the aquariums to be sure, others might disagree for their $, but I want good stuff either way, and some things are worth paying extra for. What I often ask, is if a particular product is worth the premium for that difference in cost?

That's not a clear line for everyone, but.......some things are much clearer like the KNO3 vs Seachem Nitrogen example. I know they use basic clays to enhance color in Koi, whether or not this extends to CRS's, I'm none too sure.
Still, it would be a selling point for ADA AS for tanks in general, not just in the food.

We all know shrimp pick all day long and some of that clay soil goes through them. Plecos also munch as well as other fish on the sediments.

So convince me it's worth the difference.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Captivate05 (Feb 23, 2010)

Are my shrimp the only ones that come running for whatever food I dump in the tank? Mine flock like starving monkeys to a banana whenever I put _any_ food in the tank. Algae wafers, pellets, brine shrimp, anything.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> It is 45X more expensive than what I use. So why is it better than what I am using? Being nice does not mean you do not engage in a non personal debate about the topic.
> 
> I'm trying to see what is in the ADA product that makes it any better other options that are admittedly far cheaper and contain similar components.
> 
> ...



The only facts I have are:

Before we even got it in, while I was living in Seattle, the local shrimp expert came back from Japan explaining how great the food was compared to Hikari and Shirakura that he had been using before.

Having used Hikari and Shirakura, I've never seen shrimp go berserk over food like they go over Red Bee Shrimp Food. The stuff gets wrestled over and devoured and a little bit goes a very long way.

Now, I am not a DIY'er, nor do I particularly care to DIY food, reactors, or anything of the sort. So no, I can't speak as to whether or not some random DIY'd food is better or not. 

If that isn't a good enough testimonial, then I'm not going to change your mind and I don't care to try. I guess I'm weird when I use something that works and continue to use it. 

This isn't really a debate. At best it's just a couple of people giving testimonials on varying experience and priorities. If you want to try to tear apart all of it's merits, you're entitled to do so. Just remember that Amano has infinitely more experience, experimentation and results than either you or I can hope to claim.


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## Vesh (Jan 16, 2010)

I feed my fish with New Life Spectrum Small Fish Formula. Same went to my shrimps. Then I decided to read the label. And what I see there? Copper sulfate. I decided, "No more copper to my shrimps!" Went to LFS and bought Hikari Shrimp Cousine. When I read the label, what I found there? Copper sulfate! Hell, I wish I read the label before I bought it.

What should I feed my shrimps with?


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

What does crude ash mean? Also aquasoil is listed dead last so there is a very small amount of it, but it's being advertised as one of the main sell points of the product. It looks like it's probably just being used to help bind the product. If your shrimp are living in aquasoil anyway I don't see how it really helps you that much even if it is great stuff. 

If I were in a store looking at two competitive food brands that cost the same, with one having fish meal, krill meal, and squid meal being listed as the first three primary ingredients (ADA) and the other brand containing fish meal as the first ingredient but followed by yeast, soy, wheat, and oats, I would select the first brand that contained fish, krill, and squid as the first three ingredients,even if the crude protein, fiber, and fat were equal.

That said, it being 45 times more expensive would make go with another product. Even if this is the best shrimp food ever, you're paying extra for that ADA logo and the cost it takes to get it imported from Japan. If the same thing was made by some American brand and sold in petsmart it would be dirt cheap (pun intended) because it would be domestic and not a boutique brand, which is what ADA essentially is in America. It's the Giorgio Armani of freshwater aquarium products. There may be more crude oil content in an American made food, though (Too soon? Lol) 

I don't think it's worth getting aggressive over, Tom.

Vesh, the amount of copper in the food isn't going to hurt them in my and many others' opinion. Some people avoid copper at all costs.


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

Crude ash... well I'd think it is the bones of stuff you know? Like when you cremate your pet... 


you want something with low ash content.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Francis Xavier said:


> The only facts I have are:
> 
> Before we even got it in, while I was living in Seattle, the local shrimp expert came back from Japan explaining how great the food was compared to Hikari and Shirakura that he had been using before.
> 
> ...


Just because they go beserk for it doesn't make it better. My 20 month old goes ape for tootsie rolls... They aren't exactly highly nutritious.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Vesh said:


> I feed my fish with New Life Spectrum Small Fish Formula. Same went to my shrimps. Then I decided to read the label. And what I see there? Copper sulfate. I decided, "No more copper to my shrimps!" Went to LFS and bought Hikari Shrimp Cousine. When I read the label, what I found there? Copper sulfate! Hell, I wish I read the label before I bought it.
> 
> What should I feed my shrimps with?


My food does not have it. That being said, copper sulfate is just a preservative. Elemental copper is what we should worry about.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> Doesn't Hikari add MSG to their foods?
> 
> http://www.hikariusa.com/products/tropical/tropical_sinking_wafers.html
> 
> ...


I understand some people choose not to eat MSG as a personal choice.... But why? Can anyone reference current research that indicates it is any more harmful than many of the other things out there?


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

It causes memory loss Justin! DUH!

J/K. I eat MSG, so I don't care. lol


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

I know some people are intolerant of it and can have asthma symptoms, weakness, fatigue, numbness etc. after eating it. 

I think it's similar to how some people are intolerant to phenylalanine and can't drink diet coke, but not nearly as serious. 

Apart from that I think people avoid it because of sodium, I guess. I think it makes everything taste great. "Umami."


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

There is no scientific proof that MSG is bad. There was a marketing campaign years ago that slighted it just like there is right now on high fructose corn syrup. It is a salt used as a preservative and as salts do it also intensifies flavors.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I dropped a rabbit turd in my tank and my shrimp went nuts for it. Same difference or no?


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

chad320 said:


> I dropped a rabbit turd in my tank and my shrimp went nuts for it. Same difference or no?


maybe you can start selling it :bounce:


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

chad320 said:


> I dropped a rabbit turd in my tank and my shrimp went nuts for it. Same difference or no?


 
hahahaha


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

bsmith said:


> There scientific proof that MSG is bad. There was a marketing campaign years ago that slighted it just like there is right now on high fructose corn syrup. It is a salt used as a preservative and as salts do it also intensifies flavors.


Recent studies have also indicated that there is little merit to this. Highly excessive doses can cause brain lesions in some rodents and monkeys in tests, but this is outrageously high dosing, not normal dosing. 

Some people might have sensitivities to it, but there is little proof there is anything wrong with normal usage. 

Would I suggest you buy a pound and make it into a cake? Nope. Does it hurt to have a little added to some foods? Likely no more than using salt, lard, alcohol, cell phones, or methane from your rear end.


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## jetajockey (Aug 23, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> Likely no more than using salt, lard, alcohol, cell phones, or methane from your rear end.


I bet my shrimp would be all over that recipe.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

jetajockey said:


> I bet my shrimp would be all over that recipe.


LOL. I would say we've derailed this one enough. 

If you get good results from any food, so be it. It is up to you where you spend your money....


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## jetajockey (Aug 23, 2010)

It's all in marketing/name brand. Why do people buy name brand foods vs off brand of identical quality? Because people subconsciously put more trust/comfort/desire into something that costs more or is more recognizable as a brand.

It's easy to jump to the conclusion that if it costs more it must be better.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

corrected my post to what it should have said.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> Doesn't Hikari add MSG to their foods?
> 
> http://www.hikariusa.com/products/tropical/tropical_sinking_wafers.html
> 
> ...


That link is for Sinking Wafers, not Discus Bio Gold, which can be found here
http://www.hikariusa.com/products/tropical/tropical_discus_bio-gold.php .


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Vesh said:


> I feed my fish with New Life Spectrum Small Fish Formula. Same went to my shrimps. Then I decided to read the label. And what I see there? Copper sulfate. I decided, "No more copper to my shrimps!" Went to LFS and bought Hikari Shrimp Cousine. When I read the label, what I found there? Copper sulfate! Hell, I wish I read the label before I bought it.
> 
> What should I feed my shrimps with?


NLS Small Fish Formula!

I've had two amanos for about three years now. What do they eat? All the foods I throw into my discus tank, including NLS, bloodworms, brine shrimp, beef heart, tetra color bits, etc, etc. Lets remember that these things are scavengers, not the bloody Queen of England.

The whole 'what food is the best for my shrimp, what if it has copper in it, etc' debate was engendered by the overly paranoid keepers CRS and other very expensive and delicate shrimp. And amongst these folks, there's still no consensus as far as 'the best' food, just like with any other fauna. Some people have great results feeding only bloodworms, which runs counter to the prevailing notion of a low protein, high vegetable matter diet.


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## EKLiu (Jan 14, 2010)

snausage said:


> NLS Small Fish Formula!
> Lets remember that these things are scavengers, not the bloody Queen of England.


 
So true. These little shrimp are akin to aquatic cockroaches. I really don't think the quality of the food really matters. A lot of cat and dog food has really low quality ingredients and those animals do ok on it.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Also, keep in mind that ADA Red Bee food is marketed towards people interested in keeping and _breeding_ expensive ornamental shrimp. That group of consumers is very different from people interested in keeping amanos or breeding rcs to keep they're tank and plants clean.


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## Vesh (Jan 16, 2010)

snausage said:


> NLS Small Fish Formula!
> 
> I've had two amanos for about three years now. What do they eat? All the foods I throw into my discus tank, including NLS, bloodworms, brine shrimp, beef heart, tetra color bits, etc, etc. Lets remember that these things are scavengers, not the bloody Queen of England.
> 
> The whole 'what food is the best for my shrimp, what if it has copper in it, etc' debate was engendered by the overly paranoid keepers CRS and other very expensive and delicate shrimp. And amongst these folks, there's still no consensus as far as 'the best' food, just like with any other fauna. Some people have great results feeding only bloodworms, which runs counter to the prevailing notion of a low protein, high vegetable matter diet.


Well, do wanna breed CRS and CBS, not just keep amanos. I'm starting with low grades, though.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

snausage said:


> Also, keep in mind that ADA Red Bee food is marketed towards people interested in keeping and _breeding_ expensive ornamental shrimp. That group of consumers is very different from people interested in keeping amanos or breeding rcs to keep they're tank and plants clean.


Uhhh, speaking as one that keeps and breeds high grade shrimp....

I only feed my shrimp packaged foods 2 times a week if that. The rest of the time it is boiled organic vegetables. I want to KNOW what is going into my shrimps diet. Not some vague ingredient description. Personally, I won't buy ADA food because it is overpriced on so many levels to me. Yes, I have purchased some relatively expensive foods like Shirakura Ebi Dama Special, but I got 30G of that for 12 shipped on ebay a long time ago. Didn't work out for me.

Personally, I feel the ADA food is marketed not towards high end shrimp breeders, but ADA fans. Most high end shrimp breeders go with Mosura/Shirakura products, because that is the "ADA" for us in regards to shrimp products,

That's my opinion though.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Vesh said:


> Well, do wanna breed CRS and CBS, not just keep amanos. I'm starting with low grades, though.


Get some Mosura foods. I've been using Excel and it seems really good.

You can purchase Mosura stuff at theshrimptank.com. The foods are about $10-12 for 25 grams (it will last quite a while) and they have cheap shipping for dry goods.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

msnikkistar said:


> Uhhh, speaking as one that keeps and breeds high grade shrimp....
> 
> I only feed my shrimp packaged foods 2 times a week if that. The rest of the time it is boiled organic vegetables. I want to KNOW what is going into my shrimps diet. Not some vague ingredient description. Personally, I won't buy ADA food because it is overpriced on so many levels to me. Yes, I have purchased some relatively expensive foods like Shirakura Ebi Dama Special, but I got 30G of that for 12 shipped on ebay a long time ago. Didn't work out for me.
> 
> ...


I fully agree 100%. Good diet= good healthy critters.

I do think if you look at the ingredients listings/labels, it is really much like food for us........and if the generic taste decent and cost 45X less, most will buy that.

Fairly simple common sense approach to judging a fish/shrimp food.

If the ingredients are roughly the same, I find no factual justification to pay a lot more for something. If a vitamin has all the same ingredients, maybe a little more here or there, why pay 10-20-45X more?

Boiled pea sprouts.......muummm, yum.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

snausage said:


> Get some Mosura foods. I've been using Excel and it seems really good.
> 
> You can purchase Mosura stuff at theshrimptank.com. The foods are about $10-12 for 25 grams (it will last quite a while) and they have cheap shipping for dry goods.


So now we are down to 15X as much as generic sticks, which..........I know breed these and are eaten like mad.

Can I sell you guys a secret high grade product I make 1000% or more profit on by repacking it in a pretty bottle?? List the ingredients, then compare them to other products.

Not listed? Don't buy them.




Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

Wow, this thread is crazy. I didn't mean for this to happened. I was just wondering if anyone else is using it as a food source in their feeding of their shrimps. Whether it be breeding purpose or just simple feeding. Sure, it's a little pricey for the big bottle.. that I do understand. But there's option to choose from also, they have a 7gram bottle which is about $9 dollars, instead of the 30grams that $28.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> So now we are down to 15X as much as generic sticks, which..........I know breed these and are eaten like mad.
> 
> Can I sell you guys a secret high grade product I make 1000% or more profit on by repacking it in a pretty bottle?? List the ingredients, then compare them to other products.
> 
> ...


I got some rabbit poop if you want to try selling it 

On a more serious note, I feed my shrimps a huge variety of veggies, leaves, algaes, mosses, and other organics. They jump right on it, and breed like mad. There would have to be some serious scientific proof that they do better and live longer for that cost. I have a hard time beliving that theyll live longer OR produce more babies on this food. And since they dont, its simply not cost effective.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

Speaking of listing ingredients... Shirakura Micro does NOT list it's ingredients. After using this very expensive snake oil, my nitrates spiked through the roof, taking several high grade CRS down in the process. I used it in my Cardinal tank too, lost one of them due to same nitrate spike. (there's your control Tom :red_mouth)

Also speaking of Mosura... Has anyone actually read the description on ebay?!? where do they get that crap? Shrimp get caught in hair algae & die?!? TDS should be well over 200?!? Phosphate causes algae?specifically hair algae (trapping & killing shrimp)?!?

I should make my own thread...


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

dirtyhermit said:


> Speaking of listing ingredients... Shirakura Micro does NOT list it's ingredients. After using this very expensive snake oil, my nitrates spiked through the roof, taking several high grade CRS down in the process. I used it in my Cardinal tank too, lost one of them due to same nitrate spike. (there's your control Tom :red_mouth)
> 
> Also speaking of Mosura... Has anyone actually read the description on ebay?!? where do they get that crap? Shrimp get caught in hair algae & die?!? TDS should be well over 200?!? Phosphate causes algae?specifically hair algae (trapping & killing shrimp)?!?
> 
> I should make my own thread...


Both Shirakura and Mosura do not provide a real ingredients list, nor do they provide the guaranteed analysis. I've heard a lot of negative reaction regarding Shirakura foods amongst many SE Asian and European shrimpers.

The label on Mosura Mineral Plus reads "For most captivity(sic) bred dwarf shrimps(sic) species, we recommend, use Mosura Mineral Plus to adjust TDS 150 to 200 ppm" Lol, that's verbatim.... Bad english aside, a lot of highly experienced hobbyists from around the globe swear by Mosura products. Mosura would not garner that type of respect from such a diverse group of people if there weren't something behind their products. 

It's kind of ironic that we prodigal Americans are getting into a heated debate over spending a little bit of money on fish food. I guess it's just a sign o' the times.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

FYI, its not " A little bit of money for fish food". Its not $5. Its $38. Thats ALOT of money for " A little bit of fish food" and the whole point behind the thread. Why pay premium price for something that has no proof of merit.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> So now we are down to 15X as much as generic sticks, which..........I know breed these and are eaten like mad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, I think you convinced me to buy some ken's vegetable sticks.....

Think about it this way:

Does DIY CO2 help plants grow? Yes

Does pressurized CO2 help plants grow? Yes

How much does a DIY system cost to make and run for a year? Not much, maybe $20 if you change the solution constantly.

How much does it cost to purchase and run a pressurized CO2 system with all the bells and whistles for a year? (this is assuming you don't spend all your time on ebay looking for the various components) At least $300, probably much more.

Do they essentially perform the same function in the aquarium? Yes

Dollar for dollar, which system is better? Who knows........


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

there are 3 types of mosura, which do most of you use (those that use it of course)


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

snausage said:


> It's kind of ironic that we prodigal Americans are getting into a heated debate over spending a little bit of money on fish food. I guess it's just a sign o' the times.


I wouldn't exactly call this heated. It's a discussion or debate, which is healthy & welcome. Sharing information = good.

Saving $ is also good.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

snausage said:


> Lol, I think you convinced me to buy some ken's vegetable sticks.....
> 
> Think about it this way:
> 
> ...



Dollar for dollar, the pressurized is better. There is no need to spend $300 anymore on co2 systems. You can get complete regulators with solenoids for as low as 75 used nowadays. You can get a paintball adapter and use paintball tanks. 

My co2 system cost me a grand total of $32 bucks shipped. That's it.


Ken's Stick w/ Calcium are great.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

rickztahone said:


> there are 3 types of mosura, which do most of you use (those that use it of course)


I use excel and I think it's really good. It's very easy to remove because it holds its form and doesn't disintegrate. My CRS really like it, although they ignored it the first couple times, which is normal. I believe the other one that isn't 'crs specialty food' is the most popular though. 

Like I said before, it really isn't that expensive, considering 25 grams of it is going to last you a really long time unless you have 100s of CRS.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

msnikkistar said:


> Dollar for dollar, the pressurized is better.


Yes, but that's your opinion, not an empirically validated truth. 

How many people spend $32 on their co2 system? If there was no need to spend a couple hundred dollars on it, why would Green Leaf Aquariums bother to advertise here? I think the actual average, in terms of purchasing the system and operating it for a year is probably a lot closer to $300 than $32.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

snausage said:


> Yes, but that's your opinion, not an empirically validated truth.
> 
> How many people spend $32 on their co2 system? If there was no need to spend a couple hundred dollars on it, why would Green Leaf Aquariums bother to advertise here? I think the actual average, in terms of purchasing the system and operating it for a year is probably a lot closer to $300 than $32.


There isn't a "need" to spend $300. People do that because they want the solenoid and all the other things that come with it right now and then. I don't need that stuff, nor do I have to have it. And may other people feel the exact same way. Especially when one can get all of that for $75 used on here if they choose to wait and get their equipment. For the impatient people, they can just buy the entire thing for $300, but NOT ALL. I will never spend $300 on a co2 system, ever. That is WAY too much money to spend on one in my opinion. I set a goal of building a basic system that was pressurized, under a certain price, and I did it. I found deals on CL, the SNS, and ebay in order to do so. Really, I spent a total of $83 dollars. And I now have 3 fully functional systems from doing so because I looked for deals. Albeit, I do not have solenoids. The deals are out there, for anyone to look for.

Why is pressurized better over diy? I can tell you because I have used BOTH systems and I still am as a matter of fact, as I have to fill up one of my 20 oz tanks.

DiY co2 is unstable, and seriously, if you have a larger tank, having 4-2 liters bottles to constantly refill with sugar and yeast on a weekly basis is just dumb and not cost effective. Over a certain period of time, the co2 systems end up paying for themselves in the amount you are saving from buying sugar and yeast as it is. 

You see, I don't think of the cost in the beginning, but over time elapsed. Same as I do with buying things like coffee. Some people see it as only spending $3.95 a day on starbucks, I see it as $1800 bucks a year you are wasting.

Oh and for the record, a 20 oz co2 tank going at 2-4 bps lasts about 4 months if not more. It cost $3.50 - $5 to refill. So my cost after initial setup a year is about $15 bucks. There is NO WAY a diy co2 system is only $20 bucks a year to maintain. On 1 2 liter diy system, I went through a bag of sugar in 1 1/2 months, and a 3 pack of yeast in 2 months. A bag of sugar alone is about 5 bucks, and the yeast is another 5 bucks. That's unless you want to buy the big bottle of it that lasts about 4 months at 15 bucks.


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## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

Also, DIY CO2 is much more difficult to control, possible costing you more money than it saves. Especially when accidents happen and you get a good quantity of yeast in the tank, or when something leaks and it leaves your carpet stained and your house smelling like a brewery for a month. It works when it works. However, I think this comparison is sort of off base in regards to the original discussion.


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## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

snausage said:


> Yes, but that's your opinion, not an empirically validated truth.


And actually, in nikki's case, I think it is empirically validated. The validation is based on her experiences and observations with both methods.

I don't think that there's a way we can _logically validate _it, without you arguing the logic.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

comparing pressurized to DIY is like comparing a fixed gear bike riding up a hill to a sports car speeding down a hill... They are worlds apart when it comes to performance, ease of use, cost and functionality. DIY is fun, messy, smelly, pain in the ass, lots of work, worth nothing and wrought with problems, a high tech setup (which will not cost you 300 dollars, unless you're looking to spend that much, mine cost me 175 total) will give you ease of use, an infinitely smaller chance of gassing your shrimp, automatic controlled dosing, after the initial investment of 175 dollars, the cost of running it is extremely cheap, not to mention if things dont work out, you can SELL IT for almost as much as you bought it for, making it an actual investment (albeit one that loses a little money).

That's my 2 cents!


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Shrimp food?????


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

lol


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## FlSHRFun (Jun 26, 2010)

:hihi:


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## jetajockey (Aug 23, 2010)

moral of the story. msnikkistar put together a pressurized co2 system for nearly the same cost of one container of shrimp food. 

msnikkistar wins.


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

Just make your own food and call it good.


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

FlSHRFun said:


> :hihi:


Good one. Lol. Wasn't intended to go that way.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

jetajockey said:


> moral of the story. msnikkistar put together a pressurized co2 system for nearly the same cost of one container of shrimp food.
> 
> msnikkistar wins.


Do I get a free can of ADA bee food for this? LOL


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

LOL, if my shrimp don't like it, I will send you the remaining portion in exchange for some ken's calcium sticks!


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## jetajockey (Aug 23, 2010)

msnikkistar said:


> Do I get a free can of ADA bee food for this? LOL


I'll trade you for your co2 setup :icon_mrgr


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

jetajockey said:


> I'll trade you for your co2 setup :icon_mrgr


 I am already giving the extra one to a friend at a local SAPS meeting. lol


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