# Calling out to ALL CRS keepers regarding pH, gH/kH, TDS, Water Temperatures & Changes



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

AquariumInfo: http://aquariuminfo.org/crs.html, http://aquariuminfo.org/makingmoney.html
FishYou: http://www.fishyou.com/shrimp-crs.php
PlantedTank: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/40625-breeding-crs-small-tanks-5.html, 
PlantedInverts: http://www.planetinverts.com/breeding softwater shrimp by kenshin.html, http://www.planetinverts.com/Crystal Red Shrimp.html
ShrimpNow: http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/133-Water-Parameters-pH-GH-KH-NO3-CO2

*All seems to be very valuable resources, but how practical are the information provided? There are countless articles I've read that has so many success stories, but most posts are outdated, so I want to gather new information.

Please respond with YOUR water parameters and how successful are you at keeping them (i.e. birth > deaths)?* 
*Any responses would be greatly appreciated. These information will not only help me, but perhaps for many others like me  Thanks!!!*

*pH:
kH:
gH:
TDS:
Temperature Range:
% of water change bi-weekly:
* Assuming that all tanks are @ 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrate and 0 Nitrite*

*PS: Anyone raising CRS in CO2 injected tanks? I would like to hear how that is going for you.*


----------



## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

ph: 6.2 6-8 kh: 0 gh: never test, TDS: never test, Temp: 70-78
10 to 20% weekly water changes. I don't have any problems breeding these guys


----------



## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

pH: 6.8-7.4

KH: 0-1

GH: 3-4

TDS: ~80ppm

Temp: 70-78F

No supplimental CO2 or ferts.

5% water change every 2-3 days. 20-30% water change about once a month. I've got crazy soft tap water so I use that for water changes. No RO or remineralizers, just a little declorinator.

I've been keeping them for a little over a year now, started with 30, now I have probably close to 300. So far the only issue I've had was last winter when my GH dropped down very low and they stopped breeding for a few months until I figured out and corrected the problem. I have a ton of baby shrimp currently, and breeding is occurring almost daily.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Moe said:


> ph: 6.2 6-8 kh: 0 gh: never test, TDS: never test, Temp: 70-78
> 10 to 20% weekly water changes. I don't have any problems breeding these guys





blacksheep998 said:


> pH: 6.8-7.4
> 
> KH: 0-1
> 
> ...


I've read in some places to focus more in gH and pH and that kH would still be ok in the "low range", as in 1-2, and they would still be able to breed, is this information correct?


----------



## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

NeoShrimp said:


> I've read in some places to focus more in gH and pH and that kH would still be ok in the "low range", as in 1-2, and they would still be able to breed, is this information correct?


I'll explain what happened to me last winter.

I used to use an RO filter and do water changes with a 50/50 mix of RO and tap water. This gave me water with a pH around 6.8 and KH/GH both around 4.

About 10 months ago though, my tap water changed abruptly and I wasn't as good about keeping tabs on parameters back then as I am now. So before I knew it, the KH and GH in my tank had both dropped down below 1. I didn't have many deaths from it, so it took me awhile to realize what was going on, but my shrimp completely stopped breeding and the growth rate of the baby shrimp dropped dramatically.

Once I realized what was going on I switched to 100% tap water, stopped using RO water entirely, bought some mosura mineral plus and started dosing with that. It brought the GH up but doesn't effect KH or pH. After using that my shrimp started breeding and growing again. 

Eventually my tap water changed slightly again, to roughly the parameters I listed above, so I stopped using the mineral plus and they seem do be doing extremely well on just plain tap water.

So to answer your question directly: Yes, it appears that CRS are fine with extremely low KH, but they need a reasonable GH to be able to molt and breed.


----------



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm almost done cycling a new tank for my K14s. I will use RO as usual and the parameters will be. (pretty much the same for all my shrimp tanks)

pH: *6.4*
kH: *0-1*
gH: *5-6*
TDS: *150-170*
Temperature Range:*75*
% of water change bi-weekly: *10% once a month*


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

blacksheep998 said:


> I'll explain what happened to me last winter.
> 
> I used to use an RO filter and do water changes with a 50/50 mix of RO and tap water. This gave me water with a pH around 6.8 and KH/GH both around 4.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this really detailed scenario that happened to you. Would certainly help to let others watch out. You said they need SOME kH and gH and it can't be too low, but would 1-3 kH and 5-7 gH be "too high"? I am getting a lot of mixed scenarios so end up overall .


----------



## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

I usually hear that a GH of 4-6 is best for CRS, but if mine are doing fine at the extreme low end of that range then yours should be equally fine at the upper limit of it.

As for the KH, anything between 0-4 seems to be irrelevant. So long as it's low they seem to do well.


----------



## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

One thing for sure is there is a difference between keeping CRS alive and getting them to breed. Crs will survive outside the parameters mention above, they may not breed or display there best colors.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

blacksheep998 said:


> I usually hear that a GH of 4-6 is best for CRS, but if mine are doing fine at the extreme low end of that range then yours should be equally fine at the upper limit of it.
> 
> As for the KH, anything between 0-4 seems to be irrelevant. So long as it's low they seem to do well.


If I were to say, 3-4kH, would that be too high? From the post above, I think its too high to breed but not too high to keep even high grades right?


----------



## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> I'm almost done cycling a new tank for my K14s. I will use RO as usual and the parameters will be. (pretty much the same for all my shrimp tanks)
> 
> pH: *6.4*
> kH: *0-1*
> ...



% of water change bi-weekly: 10% once a month??

I'm confused. you said bi-weekly, but after it you said once a month.

so 5% per 2 weeks? Or do not touch at all until at the end of the month?

edit: btw I thought shrimps need "perfect" clean water, so vigorous water change is a must....? totally confused.


----------



## blacksheep998 (Jan 16, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> I thought shrimps need "perfect" clean water, so vigorous water change is a must....? totally confused.


If you have a mature and well planted aquarium and use very soft water for top-offs then you can easily go several weeks without a serious water change.

What harms shrimp is buildup of either ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. A well cycled aquarium will very quickly convert ammonia and nitrites into nitrates, which will be removed almost as fast as it's created if you have enough fast growing plants like java moss or some stem plants.

Alternatively, shrimp can be harmed if the water parameters change, such as what would happen when water evaporates and the water hardness rises. If you're topping off with very soft water (RO water is ideal) then any changes will be minimal. If you top off with harder water, or don't top off at all, then TDS and water hardness will rise.

The reason I do so many water changes is mostly because I have quite a bit of driftwood and I'm working to slowly but steadily bring down the tannens in the water that have stained it with a weak tea color. It will take months for that to go away but once it does I'll step down to weekly water changes.




NeoShrimp said:


> If I were to say, 3-4kH, would that be too high? From the post above, I think its too high to breed but not too high to keep even high grades right?


My crystals range from A-SSS and they used to breed just fine in water with a KH around 4.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

blacksheep998 said:


> If you have a mature and well planted aquarium and use very soft water for top-offs then you can easily go several weeks without a serious water change.
> 
> What harms shrimp is buildup of either ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. A well cycled aquarium will very quickly convert ammonia and nitrites into nitrates, which will be removed almost as fast as it's created if you have enough fast growing plants like java moss or some stem plants.
> 
> ...


Wow! I am very happy to know that A-SSS can breed in kH around 4. I think the key to would just be "stable conditions" right? :fish:


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> I'm almost done cycling a new tank for my K14s. I will use RO as usual and the parameters will be. (pretty much the same for all my shrimp tanks)
> 
> pH: *6.4*
> kH: *0-1*
> ...


10% per month, that is very little. I guess you only feed every 2-3 days?


----------



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

I only feed every other day, but I don't have a ridiculous breeder tank that's packed with 500 shrimps either. The only time I do a big water change (30%) is when I have new shrimps coming in. I do a big change a day before shrimp arrival so they can arrive to prime water.

IMO it depends on how big your tank is also, for my 60p I do 10% once a month to once every 3 weeks. Smaller tank 30c I'll do 10% weekly. It's really not the time that dictates when I change. It is when my TDS of the tank creeps over 200ppm. Then I'll do a change with 100ppm RO water to lower the TDS.

And of course daily top offs with pure RO.


----------



## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

20 gallon tall
pH: 6.8
Temperature: 73-76
TDS: 150
RO/DI water
50% water change weekly
Amazonia New Aquasoil

Shrimp are only about a month new in this tank so havent seen any breeding yet but some of the females look ready now. Currently 18 mixed grade CRS. Mainly A and S.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> I only feed every other day, but I don't have a ridiculous breeder tank that's packed with 500 shrimps either. The only time I do a big water change (30%) is when I have new shrimps coming in. I do a big change a day before shrimp arrival so they can arrive to prime water.
> 
> IMO it depends on how big your tank is also, for my 60p I do 10% once a month to once every 3 weeks. Smaller tank 30c I'll do 10% weekly. It's really not the time that dictates when I change. It is when my TDS of the tank creeps over 200ppm. Then I'll do a change with 100ppm RO water to lower the TDS.
> 
> And of course daily top offs with pure RO.


I have read that the smaller the tank, the more there will be fluctuations. My bf and I are aiming to do water changes once our TDS gets past about 215ppm once our tank is established. At the meantime, however, the tank is still fairly new so we get a lot of fluctuation in TDS readings.

From what Liam told us, its most likely the Seiryu stones, but we hope that after a few months of weekly/biweekly water changes it stop being the "big issue". At least that is what we hope. Have been trying to do research online but not much info.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

sampster5000 said:


> 20 gallon tall
> pH: 6.8
> Temperature: 73-76
> TDS: 150
> ...


Looks like a very good start. No deaths I would assume? What are your gH/kH values?


----------



## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

No deaths and I just found my first berried female!  Not measuring GH and kH. Doing roughly 75% RO and 25% tap water. Not too worried about those levels as long as I get my TDS and pH in the right places after a WC.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

sampster5000 said:


> No deaths and I just found my first berried female!  Not measuring GH and kH. Doing roughly 75% RO and 25% tap water. Not too worried about those levels as long as I get my TDS and pH in the right places after a WC.


Oh wow. Congrats! Do post pics! :bounce:
So at what TDS do you start doing the WC. I am assuming your 150TDS is the reading right after you do the WC? Do you have any driftwood, stones, decorations, etc. in your tank as well?


----------



## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

I was doing weekly 50% water changes but noticed more activity from the shrimp once I skipped a week. Now doing 50% wc bi weekly. The TDS barely rise as I only have 18 shrimp in there. Half of them are tiny still.

I've got some manzanita driftwood, moss, 2 sponge filters, eheim 2213 with a sponge prefilter, 1 cholla wood, and 3 shrimp caves that I made out of black tubing I found at home depot. I was gonna start a thread for the tank. Once I get time... lol

I'll try to get some pics of the momma tomorrow.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

sampster5000 said:


> I was doing weekly 50% water changes but noticed more activity from the shrimp once I skipped a week. Now doing 50% wc bi weekly. The TDS barely rise as I only have 18 shrimp in there. Half of them are tiny still.
> 
> I've got some manzanita driftwood, moss, 2 sponge filters, eheim 2213 with a sponge prefilter, 1 cholla wood, and 3 shrimp caves that I made out of black tubing I found at home depot. I was gonna start a thread for the tank. Once I get time... lol
> 
> I'll try to get some pics of the momma tomorrow.


Ya! You should post up the pics or start a journal :icon_mrgr

I hope to only do 50% WC biweekly or longer but the darn stone is increasing the TDS so rapidly I don't know what to do now. I guess by Dec., if the rate of the TDS keeps going up to about 50 per week, then I'll call it quits on the stones. Since the Monday water change, TDS went from 103ppm (right after the WC) to now 182ppm. That is 79ppm shift in 3 days. Yikes!


----------



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

You know, it's more about stability versus having to have a certain TDS. I've gotten some shrimps in the mail, very nice shrimps that lived in TDS 500ppm, because the keeper never changed his water. If you have it too soft you'll lose babies, but they can usually acclimate to the hardness. You shouldn't get so hung up on the numbers. Throw them in and see how they do. The worst is the flux of your TDS going up and down. Let your water settle at final TDS with your rocks and that'll be you baseline.

I see lots of shrimp tanks with your type of rocks in them. Do they breed? I don't know, but they are not dying.

I'm also not suggesting that you skip water changes. You would need a very specific set up to go that route. Mainly MASSIVE bio filtration. I would do very very small WC if I was dealing with your tank as not to lower the TDS too much. 10% a week max.


----------



## sampster5000 (Oct 30, 2010)

Agreed with stability being most important. In any tank, really.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> You know, it's more about stability versus having to have a certain TDS. I've gotten some shrimps in the mail, very nice shrimps that lived in TDS 500ppm, because the keeper never changed his water. If you have it too soft you'll lose babies, but they can usually acclimate to the hardness. You shouldn't get so hung up on the numbers. Throw them in and see how they do. The worst is the flux of your TDS going up and down. Let your water settle at final TDS with your rocks and that'll be you baseline.
> 
> I see lots of shrimp tanks with your rocks in them. Do they breed? I don't know, but they are not dying.
> 
> I'm also not suggesting that you don't change water either. You would need a very specific set up to go that route. Mainly MASSIVE bio filtration. I would do very very small WC if I was dealing with your tank as not to lower the TDS too much. 10% a week max.


Hope you like my new Avatar :bounce::bounce:
I just LOVE those guys. Sorry, back on topic.

I can't agree with you less on stability. Everywhere I read, stability seems to be key. That is why I struggle, to keep the TDS as some point because it changes too quickly. I will try to not let it bother me much and not do anything until I start seeing some deaths. So far, there are none and I hope it will remain that way. I have CRS & Yellows together just to test out. Only 3 yellows and 4 CRS. All are doing just "a-ok". 

Will certainly try to keep it to a minimal for water changes now. Hopefully the TDS don't start going crazy and go from 100ppm to like 300ppm after 2 weeks  

Have to keep telling myself, ignore frequent WC...go for stability...ignore frequent WC...go for stability :icon_mrgr


----------



## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

NeoShrimp said:


> I hope to only do 50% WC biweekly or longer but the darn stone is increasing the TDS so rapidly I don't know what to do now.


Are you sure it is the stone and not something else in the tank? 

Have you considered taking out one of the smaller stones and placing it in a small cup of tank water to see if the TDS in that cup really rise that fast?


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

zdnet said:


> Are you sure it is the stone and not something else in the tank?
> 
> Have you considered taking out one of the smaller stones and placing it in a small cup of tank water to see if the TDS in that cup really rise that fast?


Did exactly this last night. Took out 4 of the 7 stones out last night and added them to TDS 20ppm RO water. Just earlier this morning it read 33. That means it is most likely the stones then?


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Leave them in longer, see how far up it goes


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Can Manzy raise TDS?


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> Can Manzy raise TDS?


From what I read online it should lower kH and pH, but shouldn't affect TDS as long as its properly washed and soaked.


----------



## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

NeoShrimp said:


> Did exactly this last night. Took out 4 of the 7 stones out last night and added them to TDS 20ppm RO water. Just earlier this morning it read 33. That means it is most likely the stones then?


Yes, it looks that way. I had read that if you clean the Seiryu stones really well, they won't affect the water that much. You may want to experiment with one of the four stones by cleaning it really really well. Then place it in another container to observe its TDS impact. A thorough cleaning may allow you to still use the stones without impacting water quality too much.

Meanwhile, if you leave the other three stones in the RO water and let the TDS continues its climb, it may reveal some long term TDS behavior. For example, the stones may significantly slow down or even stop the leaching altogether after a certain concentration is reached. That is just my guess. But if that is indeed the case, no amount of water change will stop the leaching.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

zdnet said:


> Yes, it looks that way. I had read that if you clean the Seiryu stones really well, they won't affect the water that much. You may want to experiment with one of the four stones by cleaning it really really well. Then place it in another container to observe its TDS impact. A thorough cleaning may allow you to still use the stones without impacting water quality too much.
> 
> Meanwhile, if you leave the other three stones in the RO water and let the TDS continues its climb, it may reveal some long term TDS behavior. For example, the stones may significantly slow down or even stop the leaching altogether after a certain concentration is reached. That is just my guess. But if that is indeed the case, no amount of water change will stop the leaching.


Will certainly try doing that, but how could we clean it anymore than we already have? This is copied from my other thread:

When my bf bought the stones, he hand picked the cleanest ones and tried to find ones that don't have weird colors or attachments such as concrete like some of them do. The place he got them from is A&B Bonsai close to my home in LA. 

Anyhow, he soaked them in vinegar water, then salty water, then soap for about 5 cycles each, then baked them, boiled them, basically everything possible to get any toxicity out of them for close to 1 month before even adding them to our emersed tank.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Can't clean them any better than that, lol.

Has the water in the cup gotten any higher in TDS? Is it a steady climb? Did you put an airstone (BUBBLE STONE) in with it? 

Without the airstone, the stones will leech slower because there will be no flow over them (like in your tank). With moving water, the TDS will climb faster.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

BTW, your tank has a beautiful hardscape


----------



## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

NeoShrimp said:


> Will certainly try doing that, but how could we clean it anymore than we already have? This is copied from my other thread:
> 
> When my bf bought the stones, he hand picked the cleanest ones and tried to find ones that don't have weird colors or attachments such as concrete like some of them do. The place he got them from is A&B Bonsai close to my home in LA.
> 
> Anyhow, he soaked them in vinegar water, then salty water, then soap for about 5 cycles each, then baked them, boiled them, basically everything possible to get any toxicity out of them for close to 1 month before even adding them to our emersed tank.


Looks like you will have to remove the Seiryu stones, see:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/827162-post33.html


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Can't clean them any better than that, lol.
> 
> Has the water in the cup gotten any higher in TDS? Is it a steady climb? Did you put an airstone (BUBBLE STONE) in with it?
> 
> Without the airstone, the stones will leech slower because there will be no flow over them (like in your tank). With moving water, the TDS will climb faster.


I will check again tomorrow morning. As of 1PM today it read 36ppm. Unfortunately I don't have an air pump so I can stuck.



mordalphus said:


> BTW, your tank has a beautiful hardscape


Thank you Liam! : )



zdnet said:


> Looks like you will have to remove the Seiryu stones, see:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/827162-post33.html


Just when I was about to show you this: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...149896-miss-mys-1st-rimless-journal-mr-6.html

Its odd huh how everyone have different success stories. This one is really breaking the barrier though. From S to SSS all ok in the same tank I have, 4lbs of Seiryu stones instead of 3 like mines and 400ppm TDS!


----------



## zdnet (Aug 13, 2010)

NeoShrimp said:


> Its odd huh how everyone have different success stories.


That is because we see only parts of the picture when someone reported a success or failure.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Since the removal of the 6 out of 7 stones, my CRS are coloring up even better than before. Very solid and looks like they love it. Thanks to all those wonderful inputs : )


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

How much is your TDS?


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Glad to hear you found the source of your problem and were able to remedy it.


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Btw just a question here about CRS and shrimp in general: of you have a gh of 2 and a kh of 0, I know the gh is on the low end but can shrimp get the rest of the minerals they need through a supplemental diet?


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

It's not about diet, the GH in the water has to do with reaction of water on their shell.


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh ok.


----------



## DiscusLoverJeff (Jun 18, 2010)

After testing my nephews CRS water to make sure thats not why all his shrimp died (temp reached over 88 deg for a few days, heater broke) his water parameters are;

temp 75
kh 0-1
gh 5
ph 6.4 - 6.6
tds 125
ammonia 0
nitrate 0
nitrite 0

CO2 planted tank. Trying to restock his tank (see sell section)


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

DiscusLoverJeff said:


> After testing my nephews CRS water to make sure thats not why all his shrimp died (temp reached over 88 deg for a few days, heater broke) his water parameters are;
> 
> temp 75
> kh 0-1
> ...


With crystals unless the water gets really cold, he shouldn't even need a heater. Most people with crystals fight to keep the tanks cool, not warm. How much CO2, that could be the other factor.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> How much is your TDS?


Last measurement is 115ppm. Been stable within this range for the past 3-4 days since the initial water change : )



mordalphus said:


> Glad to hear you found the source of your problem and were able to remedy it.


Thanks to you! Liam :icon_mrgr


----------



## DiscusLoverJeff (Jun 18, 2010)

GeToChKn said:


> With crystals unless the water gets really cold, he shouldn't even need a heater. Most people with crystals fight to keep the tanks cool, not warm. How much CO2, that could be the other factor.


He has a homemade co2 with one bubble every 2-3 seconds. Not much going in just enough to help plants. The heater was only on for emergency he said because its been real cold here at night. and his room gets into the 60's at night.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

DiscusLoverJeff said:


> He has a homemade co2 with one bubble every 2-3 seconds. Not much going in just enough to help plants. The heater was only on for emergency he said because its been real cold here at night. and his room gets into the 60's at night.


Isn't there a limit to how low the CO2 could be? I thought the lowest effective bps was like 0.5 per second right?


----------



## Dgup (Jul 5, 2011)

Glad thread is made, too bad there are not more responses.

I know some people keep and even have breeding CRS in above 7.5pH and I am interested since my local tap is around there.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Dgup said:


> Glad thread is made, too bad there are not more responses.
> 
> I know some people keep and even have breeding CRS in above 7.5pH and I am interested since my local tap is around there.


That could be the case too but as mentioned previously by another member, all these success stories have more than what's presented so in order to get a similar success story, you must get all the details, not just pH values or even TDS alone.


----------



## Dgup (Jul 5, 2011)

Yes, lots of variables and things unmentioned, but I'd like to give my own setup a shot to try to add to the higher pH CRS keeping list.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Dgup said:


> Yes, lots of variables and things unmentioned, but I'd like to give my own setup a shot to try to add to the higher pH CRS keeping list.


Bid you luck then. Let us know how it goes :icon_mrgr


----------



## Dgup (Jul 5, 2011)

NeoShrimp said:


> Bid you luck then. Let us know how it goes :icon_mrgr


Won't be for a while, still getting my first two tanks setup :biggrin:. Just thinking ahead.

Post more CRS parameters!


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Dgup said:


> Won't be for a while, still getting my first two tanks setup :biggrin:. Just thinking ahead.
> 
> Post more CRS parameters!


If you look back from the beginning of this thread, there are so many successful parameters and I guess the take away message is: "Keep whatever you have, stable".


----------



## ch3fb0yrdee (Oct 2, 2008)

This page is really helpful for people that are considering getting into keeping crystals. 

I know I'm side stepping here, but what are people's results from using the new ADA ASI formula. 

I'm currently cycling it and my parameters so far are..

gH: 6
kH: 4
pH: 6.4-6.6 (with CO2)
TDS: 204-206

With those parameters, is it possible to keep CRS? I know it's on the higher end of CRS required parameters.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

ch3fb0yrdee said:


> This page is really helpful for people that are considering getting into keeping crystals.
> 
> I know I'm side stepping here, but what are people's results from using the new ADA ASI formula.
> 
> ...


You mean the ADA "new" amazonia? 

My results are:
pH 5
GH 4
KH 0
TDS 140

That's with ADA "new" amazonia, which took the place of both amazonia I and amazonia II. I added kent's R/O right to raise GH.


----------



## ch3fb0yrdee (Oct 2, 2008)

mordalphus said:


> You mean the ADA "new" amazonia?
> 
> My results are:
> pH 5
> ...



Ya thats what I mean. :biggrin: I'm not using R/O water so my parameters are a bit higher than yours. I bought some rocks near by and from the looks of it's Seriyu stones from AFA. It's inside the tank right now and I cant tell if it's causing my gH to go up. I'll do a test after a couple days and see.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Yeah, I'm blessed with TAP WATER that is as clean as RO. My water out of the tap is 25 TDS, 0 GH, 0 KH, 7 pH.

Seiryu stones are a gamble, they are known for bumping up TDS and hardness.


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Before I took down my planted tank.
My pH 7, GH 16, kh 5 and my CRS seemed fine.
No deaths. 

New home has ADA New AS 
pH 6.4
GH 5
KH 0-1 cause when I put a drop of my test kit it hits yellow quickly.
TDS is solid at 210. (<- Should I really do a water change?)

Have 3 berried females and everyone is doing good.


----------



## Cynth (Sep 11, 2010)

pH: 6
kH: 2-3
gH: 4-5
Temperature Range: No heaters 68 -72

TDS: > 103 < 200
% of water change bi-weekly: Previously I was removing 1 - 2 gallons from both EBI tanks and refilling with RO water (with minerals mixed in) every weekend. Just like my fish and other shrimp. For a while this was fine and the crystals were breeding and surviving well. Then I ran into problems filling my EBI tanks straight from the RO filter. The water temperature was dropping after starting it dripping into the tanks and it stressed out the shrimp. It took me a while to figure out what was going on but as it turns out I was chilling them 

After reading here and around the web I am now using a TDS meter and just topping off the tanks until TDS gets to 200 then I will remove 1 -2 gallons to bring the TDS down to around 100. I run the RO water into gallon containers and test and add minerals to bring the parameters to where I want them.The containers of water sit at room temp for a couple of days so they are the same temp as the water in the tanks as I use no heaters. Thanks to Liam I "Know my clean water TDS". There is a thread here some where explaining how to come up with your clean water TDS. 

My shrimp are still breeding and I have quite a few babies running around. In the near future I will be moving the crystals from the small EBI tanks to a 40 gallon breeder where I hope I can maintain the parameters of the small tanks on a bigger scale.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> You mean the ADA "new" amazonia?
> 
> My results are:
> pH 5
> ...



So you don't use Mosura mineral plus or fluval or anything else to add minerals back, just the kents or do you add both because I thought the mosura/fluval were supposed to increase gH.


----------



## monkeyfish (Jul 5, 2010)

I have OEBT's in a 3 gallon eclipse and can't decide what temp to keep the tank. Without any heater it ranges from 64 to 72, with the preset heater it's around 78 or 80. So, to heat or not to heat? That is the question.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Tigers seem to like cooler water. I'd probably let it ride without the preset heater. I moved my tigers from a 6.8pH tank that was only 5gal shared with my yellows to a 20gallon shared with cherries, and that tank is 7.4pH. I had berried tigers when I moved them, no babies though, and they didn't get berried again. I thought it was a pH issue. Added my fan back to the tank to drop it from 78 to 70F. Berried moms in a few days. I think cooler temp is more important that pH with tigers.


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

GeToChKn said:


> So you don't use Mosura mineral plus or fluval or anything else to add minerals back, just the kents or do you add both because I thought the mosura/fluval were supposed to increase gH.


I use mmp when I have some, but I'm all out


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> I use mmp when I have some, but I'm all out


Ok. lol.


----------



## bsk (Aug 18, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Yeah, I'm blessed with TAP WATER that is as clean as RO. My water out of the tap is 25 TDS, 0 GH, 0 KH, 7 pH.
> 
> Seiryu stones are a gamble, they are known for bumping up TDS and hardness.


lucky guy! My tap runs around 300 TDS

Here are my perameters using the new amazonia:

Temp 72
PH 6
KH 0
GH 5-6
TDS 150-180 
I'm using RO water with fluval shrimp mineral and I'm too lazy to measure so my tds varies depending how much I drop in the tank :hihi:


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Kazuya said:


> Before I took down my planted tank.
> My pH 7, GH 16, kh 5 and my CRS seemed fine.
> No deaths.
> 
> ...


Hi. When you stated "My pH 7, GH 16, kh 5 and my CRS seemed fine.
No deaths.", did they breed normally?



Cynth said:


> pH: 6
> kH: 2-3
> gH: 4-5
> Temperature Range: No heaters 68 -72
> ...


So you are perhaps the 4th person I came across to find out that they can still breed CRS fine with high kH values. I guess kH value might not be absolute after all for CRS to breed. I'll just have to wait and see. Seen them mate a couple times but haven't seen any berried ones yet. About how long should it take before they carry eggs after they "mated"?


----------



## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Finally got down to testing my CRS tank. I do the straight RO and remineralize with Mosura Mineral plus method. I just keep adding MP till the TDS reads 150. So far all my females have been getting berried and babies aren't dying. 

Ph 6.4
KH 0-1
GH 5-6
Nitrates 0
Temp 70*F


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

speedie408 said:


> Finally got down to testing my CRS tank. I do the straight RO and remineralize with Mosura Mineral plus method. I just keep adding MP till the TDS reads 150. So far all my females have been getting berried and babies aren't dying.
> 
> Ph 6.4
> KH 0-1
> ...


I find that too with the Mosura. It says add x amount but I find I have to add about double what it calls for to get a decent TDS out of it.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Yeah...from my personal experience, the OEBT's and CRS don't do well together. The OEBTs kept on dying on me


----------



## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

bumping the thread...
My water KH and GH always corelate tested by api liquid test.

Every time I do a water check GH and KH always the same dKH (german degrees)
ex. KH = 3, GH = 3. Second test KH = 4, GH = 4.

I' know my KH is high, and my GH is low. Using Glacier water vending machine 25c/ gallon.

So question is... how to lower KH? I know to raise GH I need to mix some tap water to the vending machine water but how to lower KH?


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> bumping the thread...
> My water KH and GH always corelate tested by api liquid test.
> 
> Every time I do a water check GH and KH always the same dKH (german degrees)
> ...


I was told the best way to lower kH is doing a massive water change or frequent 20% water changes for awhile. If its still high you have to use peat or something like that. Neverhtless, we have a handful of members here whom to successfully breed and keep SS+ grades and up in kH around 5 or 6 and gH around 10 or so.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

*New Problem: Substrate to blame?*

Regardless of how often I do water changes or how massive, kH is consistently high. 

Upon further research, I found that Eco-Complete could be the most likely cause of this? In 3 out of 4 of the tanks I have right now contains 50% of the Eco-Complete (at least) mixed in with Fluval Shrimp Stratum.

At first I noticed a very low kH/gH but overtime, as I remembered someone mentioned, the FSS lose the battle and let the Eco-C. take the kH way up.

Anyone else having problems raising/breeding high grade CRS and OEBT's in Eco-complete?


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

NeoShrimp said:


> Regardless of how often I do water changes or how massive, kH is consistently high.
> 
> Upon further research, I found that Eco-Complete could be the most likely cause of this? In 3 out of 4 of the tanks I have right now contains 50% of the Eco-Complete (at least) mixed in with Fluval Shrimp Stratum.
> 
> ...


My regular tigers are in eco-complete-fluval mix with RO water and a bit of tap water and some in the filter and are doing good.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

GeToChKn said:


> My regular tigers are in eco-complete-fluval mix with RO water and a bit of tap water and some in the filter and are doing good.


Really? How interesting. In total substrate, how many % is it that is FFS? What are your gH/kH values in that tank?


----------



## splur (Nov 26, 2011)

pH: 6.5
kH: 1
gH: 6
TDS: 100
Temperature Range: 72 F
Ammonia/Nitrate: 0 ppm
% of water change bi-weekly: 0

Although the fact that I haven't changed the water in 4 months scares me.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

NeoShrimp said:


> Really? How interesting. In total substrate, how many % is it that is FFS? What are your gH/kH values in that tank?


No idea on gh/kh, My TDS is 290 and they're breeding like rabbits right now finally. I'll test it and let you know though. pH is around 6.8 though I know. I had I think 1-2bags of eco-complete, 2-3 bags of fluval and they all ended up mixed together and spread out amongst a 5.5gal, 10gal, 20long and my roomie got some. I don't have a thick layer of substrate though, maybe 3/4". Its not planted, just for shrimp, so don't need 3" of substrate.


----------



## Krayz5183 (Nov 30, 2010)

pH:6.5
kH:0
gH:3
TDS:120
Temperature Range:72-74
10%of water change weekly


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

GeToChKn said:


> No idea on gh/kh, My TDS is 290 and they're breeding like rabbits right now finally. I'll test it and let you know though. pH is around 6.8 though I know. I had I think 1-2bags of eco-complete, 2-3 bags of fluval and they all ended up mixed together and spread out amongst a 5.5gal, 10gal, 20long and my roomie got some. I don't have a thick layer of substrate though, maybe 3/4". Its not planted, just for shrimp, so don't need 3" of substrate.


Wow really? My TDS is only between 120-150. pH is a little high though at 7.5. So the only two things that are out of the ordinary is high kH and high pH, otherwise the rest are fine. Would those two factors be really that detrimental to hatchlings?


----------



## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Been testing with some hino grade CRS in harder tap water. Been a month plus now so we'll see how they do long term wise.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Ibn said:


> Been testing with some hino grade CRS in harder tap water. Been a month plus now so we'll see how they do long term wise.


What are your parameters?


----------



## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Haven't really tested, but the water is quite hard around here. I'll pull a pH reading early next week when I'm back in the office (work tank) and recalibrate the Hanna. No KH or GH measurements since I ditched those kits a long time ago. 

To get an idea of how hard it is, last time I checked with the meter, I received the following:

Temp: 76.2°F
Conductivity: 782µs
TDS: 484 ppm


----------



## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Wow, anything over 500tds out of the tap is federally illegal and should be reported. That water will most likely NOT work for CRS. Would need RO or distilled.


----------



## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Not sure about breeding, but working so far for keeping alive and growth. 

Here's a video of one of the 5 CRS in the tank.
http://youtu.be/NNOvG3DFK5o

The tank that these guys came from had the following readings when I first measured them before placing them in:

Temp: 74.6°F
Conductivity: 178µs
TDS: 110 ppm

Drip acclimated for ~7 hours before placing them in the tank, but they've been in the hard water since then (1/27).


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Ibn said:


> Not sure about breeding, but working so far for keeping alive and growth.
> 
> Here's a video of one of the 5 CRS in the tank.
> http://youtu.be/NNOvG3DFK5o
> ...


Just wondering how "Conductivity" is related to keeping CRS? I might have passed this on the reading. Please enlighten us :icon_mrgr


----------



## splur (Nov 26, 2011)

NeoShrimp said:


> Just wondering how "Conductivity" is related to keeping CRS? I might have passed this on the reading. Please enlighten us :icon_mrgr


I know they use conductivity (or more commonly megohms) to measure the stripping capacity of the filter for deionized water, although typically you you expect something like 0.055 microsiemens...


----------



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Conductivity is just another method of measuring TDS. Basically conductivity measures the amount of "salts" in water. Salts being anything in the range of calcium, potassium, etc. There are conversion charts for conductivity vs. ppm


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Ibn said:


> Haven't really tested, but the water is quite hard around here. I'll pull a pH reading early next week when I'm back in the office (work tank) and recalibrate the Hanna. No KH or GH measurements since I ditched those kits a long time ago.
> 
> To get an idea of how hard it is, last time I checked with the meter, I received the following:
> 
> ...


Eric, would love to hear how your water testing went : )


----------



## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Reading through this thread really makes me want to test my water params. 

It's been probably 3-4yrs since I've actually tested my tap 


Great and resourceful thread!


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

eklikewhoa said:


> Reading through this thread really makes me want to test my water params.
> 
> It's been probably 3-4yrs since I've actually tested my tap
> 
> ...


Do share with us what you have and how your shrimps are doing in it :biggrin:


----------



## RLee (Sep 21, 2008)

HolyAngel said:


> Wow, anything over 500tds out of the tap is federally illegal and should be reported. That water will most likely NOT work for CRS. Would need RO or distilled.


Well Santa Margarita Water District here in socal has it on there yearly report as a average TDS of 590 with a tested range from 470 - 610. I think you are maybe wrong about federally illegal.


----------



## stangmus (Apr 1, 2010)

Yeah 500tds is a federal guideline not a regulation. Potable fresh water is generaly water with less than 3000 tds.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

I can imagine anything over 350 is really dirty and deemed non drinkable? RO water is only between 3-5ppm so 500-800 is 100+ fold.


----------



## splur (Nov 26, 2011)

stangmus said:


> Yeah 500tds is a federal guideline not a regulation. Potable fresh water is generaly water with less than 3000 tds.


Lol, 3000 tds would be mud.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

NeoShrimp said:


> I can imagine anything over 350 is really dirty and deemed non drinkable? RO water is only between 3-5ppm so 500-800 is 100+ fold.


Some breeder tanks who never change their water and only top off can get in the 500range.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

GeToChKn said:


> Some breeder tanks who never change their water and only top off can get in the 500range.


I wonder how they could successfully keep their kH and gH down in that case then? :/


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

NeoShrimp said:


> I wonder how they could successfully keep their kH and gH down in that case then? :/


Top off with pure RO water. gH say is 6 with a full tank. 10% evaps, gH goes upto 6.6gH, top off with RO water with TDS of 0, and it goes back down to 6gH. In theory anyways. A bit more than that as the shrimp would actual use the minerals that make up a gH reading but at a small value.


----------



## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

My SS CRS just started to get berried all at the same time in my new Akadama tank. They were in there for a good month...

my specs:

72 degrees (this never changes since I have a 200 watt eheim heater in a 20 gallon)
PH 6.5
KH 0
GH 4
TDS 200


----------



## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

NeoShrimp said:


> *pH:
> kH:
> gH:
> TDS:
> ...


pH: 6.7
gH: 4
kH: 4
TDS: ???
Temp: 25C
30% WC every other week.
Nitrate is at 5ppm
Pressurized CO2 injection, about 20ppm


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

pH: 6
kH: 0
gH: 5-6
TDS: 260
Temperature Range: 73-76F
% of water change bi-weekly: 10-15%

Crystals breeding like crazy.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Seems like the only thing I can't control in my tank is kH. I will never get 0. The lowest I'll ever get is 3 so I probably won't ever come across with "all are berried" like hedge_fund's


----------



## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

My original stock of SS CRS came from the following parameters:
ph - 7.6
kh - ??
gh - 8
TDS - 400-500

They are now being kept in my tank with the following parameters:
ph - 6.4-6.6
kh - ??
gh - 4-6
TDS - 100-150


I was shocked to see how much success he was having in keeping the CRS in higher ph and higher gh. But his success rate was amazing, so I didn't really question his methods. I did the tests myself when I got home. Some of the hardiest CRS I have ever kept! I feel lucky to have gotten a good genetic line that can breed/live in our local tap water.


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

Ebichua said:


> My original stock of SS CRS came from the following parameters:
> ph - 7.6
> kh - ??
> gh - 8
> ...


Oh wow! I would love to get some of those to have in my tank to make the rest "stronger". May you share with me who that person is? You can certainly just PM me if you rather now just throw it randomly out on an open forum :hihi:


----------



## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

My new 17G tank is Bee shrimp PERFECT...or at least I think it is. Lol.

TDS: 80 (this will go up when I add shrimps and up the gH using FS Minerals)
kH: 0
gH: 2 (this will go up when I add shrimps and up the gH using FS Minerals)
Temp: 70-74


----------

