# Cheap T5 lighting?



## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

I'm envious.. thats pretty cheap for a T5... I've been looking for ages to get a reasonably priced T5 setup for my 90 Gallon but so far no luck.

I have 7 T8's that I want to replace with T5's over that tank


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yeah, I just looked up some pricing on the web, and it looks like I got them for half the price of what they were sold as elsewhere. Hopefully they will work...


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## Slaigar (Jun 8, 2003)

I was just about to revive my old T5 topic but I stumbled across your post.

I FINALLY got my T5's from a distributor in Calgary, AB. It took about 2 months because I just wanted the lamps and not the ballast. Apparently they needed special casings to ship it in. And then there were some slight problems of the credit card not working and then them not shipping it for 3 weeks.

But when I got them last Tuesday, I was very happy! There are four 4' T5 lamps running under a WorkHorse7. The lighting is just intense! The lights are called Envirolites and usually come with a ballast & cord.

The price of the lamps was very nice as well, $7.50(CAD) per lamp(6400K). I am thinking of maybe ordering more. I am certain that the WH7 is overdriving them because they can get pretty hot!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I read your topic and was wondering what happened... I am glad it worked out for you.

Last night I exchanged the new T5 for an old T8. Side by side, the T5 looks much brighter, with a bluish white (10000K) which offsets the yellow of my old 5000K Octrons very nicely. They also create some nice bluish reflections on the Pearl Gouramies and Rams. Not sure how "good" they are for plants... probably some reds missing.
In it's own raingutter the difference wasn't that notable, because my reflectors (raingutter lined with mylar) were perfect for the T8's, which I put snug to the back of the gutter. I need a different angle for the T5's, which are a little bit lower because having their own fixture.
They do get quite a bit warmer than the (NO) T8's, about in between the T8's and the AHS 13W bulbs, about the same as the 10W PC bulbs from Walmart.
I like them, considering that they are "only" 38 Watt but a bit brighter than the T8. I do need to adjust the reflector though, but that shouldn't be too hard, since they are physically smaller than the T8s.
I will probably buy another one of those fixtures, to end up with 2 T5s and 2 T8s for now. If I could get the bulbs as cheap as you, I would convert them all... I suppose they would work with the 4x T8 ballast as well, using two outputs of each ballast for each bulb. Hmmm... I might end up with a high light tank after all :roll:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I added the mylar reflectors, which about triple the light output, and now there is a very visible difference to the older T8's. Next week I will get a second T5 fixture, and then I will observe how plants react.

The T5's are about an inch shorter than the T8's, so they JUST fit in without having to remove the T8 endcaps. Simple!


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

Very cool!! I have seen these befroe at my LFS...they use them for the reef tanks mostly over there. They are not quite the same as some other T5's out there. Some of the others are HOT5's and thats where you see the price diference but I think for how cheep these are and how bright and easy they are to install they are worth it. I am interested in seeing how the 10K works out for you with the plants. Also could you take a pic on how you riged the T5 up with a reflector??


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I will run over there today to see if they have another white one. They also come in pink, rose, blue, actinic blue, and UVB... none too useful for planted tanks. So far the 10000K seems to work, my "Tropica" sword has a new leaf that is bright red, before they used to be brownish before they turn green... but I just started fertilizing with Jobes, so that might have played a role in it too.

Actually I like the fact that they are not HO, keeps temperature down and efficiency up... For the reflectors, I glued mylar to 2" plastic strips (I had some left over from window shutters) and stuck them into the raingutters that I am using. They just fit in perfectly, didn't even have to glue them in or attach them otherwise. Looking at it now it looks like there are three lamps instead of one. I will try to get a pic of it, maybe tomorrow.


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

Yeah I dont mind thatthey are not HO either...they are so damn cheep and easy to setup. I didnt go woth them tho because I didnt think the 10K was good for plants. So yeah if you could get a shot of your reflectors that would be great!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

As promised, here a pic of some of the bulbs I have collected to light up my tank :lol:
I bought another one of the T5's and am just about to screw it into the hood. This will leave me with two T8's, two T5's, two AHS 13W PC's and two Walmart PC's. I am still looking to replace my current T8's with a plant grow T8 like one from the Hagen series, still waiting for a good deal.


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## cousin it (Nov 1, 2002)

the best reflectors for the t5 tubes seem to be the gull wing type which work very nicely if you can find them.


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## heaven2 (Jan 9, 2003)

I like what I am reading on T5's but don't know what endcaps are needed for T5 lights? Different than those used for T8's and T12's?

I'd like to sneak a 4 T5's into my canopy. I'd probably drive them with a Fulham Workhorse ballast.


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

Ahhh very nice DIY reflector on the T5...I am very interested to see how the 10K works for the plants. I can get these way cheep from a friend at my lfs. I wonder what the pink T5's from them are for??


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

heaven2,
You need different endcaps than those used for T8/T12. They are much smaller. I think Slaigar got all the parts separately, I believe he mentioned a source for in Canada in his post.

NOLACLS,
Plants are pearling a little more under the new bulbs... but this could well be because of the increased intensity, not because they have an especially suitable spectrum. The tank looks much "blue-ish" now with the two T5's, which is both what I wanted, and possibly keeps plants growing more compact (the latter is just a guess).
Not sure what the pink ones are used for... Reptiles? Or perhaps in connection with blue ones for a psychodelic effect? Or to grow plants better?


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

Yeah I read about if the light is higher in the K range it would make the plants bush more. Keep us updated on the growth after you had the bulbs on for a while


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## DLeDeaux (Dec 27, 2002)

OMG, I was staring at that picture looking from the T5 to the PC bulbs and back to the T5 and back to the PC bulbs. After staring at that picture for a minute it suddenly dawned on me that there were two other bulbs in that pic.

Man, what a difference!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I know... keep in mind that cameras lcd's, images and computer screens have a limited range of contrast, so in reality the T8's are not _that_ dim, just when compared to the other, brighter bulbs it seems pretty bad...


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

Wasserpest said:


> I know... keep in mind that cameras lcd's, images and computer screens have a limited range of contrast, so in reality the T8's are not _that_ dim, just when compared to the other, brighter bulbs it seems pretty bad...


Dont lie...the T8s are that dim  





j/k


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## heaven2 (Jan 9, 2003)

Thanks Wasserpest! Now that I've looked closely at the T5s I see the pins much closer together compared to the T12s.

I think I found some T5 endcaps at Rona this morning (the floor clerk knew zip about them) but they were more than $6 per end. One end cap is springloaded (pushes back like a toilet paper core holder) which I suppose helps hold the light through pressure. Seems way overpriced to me.

I need to increase the light over my 90 gallon 24" deep tank which is currently running with only 80 watts - 4 * 20 watts. (Its just enough to grow crypts, anubias, bolbitus and java fern.) Canopy at 35.5" is too short to allow for 36" bulbs so I'm stuck with the shorter bulbs.

I am torn. I don't know whether to go with T5's or if I should try the ODNO route on T8s or T12s or VHO? My canopy is only 9" front to back. and the T12s are staggered and spaced equidistant apart. 

Suggestions?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

heaven,
How long is your tank? If it is 48" or more, throw out your canopy and get one that fits the tank. If I understand correctly, you use very short bulbs, so only the center of the tank is lighted sufficiently?
For a 48" long tank that is 24" deep, there are many choices. You can go the T8/12 road, which gives you about 130-160W, which in combination with excellent reflectors (?) would be considered low light, but allow you to grow a lot of different plants. You could overdrive them, which would increase the intensity by about 50%, getting into a range where you can grow more demanding plants. 
Or you use the T5's mentioned, which are brighter than the "regular" fluorescents, and due to their diameter are more efficient with a suitable reflector. 
To go the high-light route, you should check out PC's like from AH Supply. This is a little more costly and gets fairly hot, but you get a lot of watts and good reflectors so you can grow the ever famous Glossostigma :mrgreen:
I don't see much advantage to VHO lights, they are expensive, get very hot, are not so efficient (lumen/watt), and overdriving NO bulbs gets you the same light for less.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

I feel the need to clarify; it should be noted that a 54 watt HO T5 48" bulb is essentially the same as a 55 Watt Compact Flourescent bulb. They are both T5 bulbs, its just that the Compact Flourescent bulbs are bent into a "U" shape. Aside from that, there is no difference between them.

T5's are an excellent way to go because of the low cost for initial purchase, the lower replacement bulb cost, and their efficiency.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Are you sure Gareth? I read this statement about T5's being straightened out PCs a couple of times, however looking at a PC bulb and a T5 they have different diameters, with the T5 exactly being 5/8 of an inch, while a typical 13W PC is 4/8 ("T4"), and the 10W PC from Walmart would be a "T3". I don't have any 55W PC's to compare with.

In any case... my dream bulb would be a "straightened out" 10W PC bulb as they sell at Walmart. They have two U-loops, so if those would be linear, you would get an amazingly efficient and bright light. Go T3!!! :mrgreen:


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

The 55 watt PC's are 5/8ths of an inch thick. They are just T5's


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Most of you probably already know: 
Tube diameter is specified in eighths. T5 is five eights. T8 is an inch. T12 is 1 1/4". I guess I'm being reduntant. They call me Captain Obvious.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Straight from GE's Web site

These are the 55 watt PC's we've all been raving about (note the bulb type)
====================================
Subcategory Plug-in 4-Pin High Lumen Biax® 
Product Code 45859 
Description F55BX/AR/FS/BULK 
Watts 55 
Average Rated Life 10000 
Lumens (Initial) 4800 
Lumens (Mean) 4080 
Color Temperature (K) 9325 
Color Rendering Index (Ra) CRI 67 
Bulb Type BiaxL (T5) 
Base Type 2G11 
Nominal Length (In.) 20.7000 
Nominal Length (mm) 525.000 
Sales Unit UPC 043168458597 
Case UPC 043168458597 
Case Quantity 25 
Additional Information Fresh and Salt Water Phosphor 

And here are there Linear T5's
====================================
Subcategory T5 Starcoat High Output 
Product Code 90211 
Description F54W/T5/865/40 
Watts 54 
Lumens (Initial) 5000 
Lumens (Mean) 4700 
Average Rated Life 20000 
Color Temperature (K) 6500 
Color Rendering Index (Ra) CRI 85 
Bulb Type T5 
Base Type Miniature BiPin (G5) 
Nominal Length (In.) 45.2000 
Sales Unit UPC 043168902113 
Case UPC 043168902113 
Case Quantity 40 
Additional Information S/P Ratio: 2.2 

As you can see, the T5's are actually a little brighter, with the same bulb diameter, and similar wattage. Unfortunately there isnt really a direct comparison for colour or spectrum, as the CF bulbs are using different phosphors, but you get the idea.


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

The T5's you listed are brighter because they are the HO's the one that are in this post are not the HO's so I would bet they are a little less bright. But the non HO's are much cheeper (I think) to set up over the HO's


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I stand corrected! Thanks for all the info. The T5s I am using are 38 Watt and sufficiently bright for my purposes, HO bulbs I assume will get quite a bit hotter, and I don't like that...


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

For comparison Purposes

The GE 9325k bulbs (55 Watt CF) are $39 Canadian each
The GE 6500k T5 bulbs (HO 54 Watt) are $16 Canadian each

So the HO T5's are brighter, and cheaper then CF.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

As far as temperature is concerned the HO T5's are about the same temperature as an equivalent CF bulb.

The standard output T5's (38W) are a little dimmer, but you really cant beat the value. I've been trying to get T5's for over a year now but I couldnt find any that were cost effective in Canada. There were some in the states, but getting them across the border is just far too costly.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

NOLACLS said:


> The T5's you listed are brighter because they are the HO's the one that are in this post are not the HO's so I would bet they are a little less bright.


That is true, I was simply trying to get a "watt per watt" comparison of the bulbs.


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

Awww, man, now I'm pissed that I just threw a bunch of money into a CF canopy.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Don't be. Although the bulbs are more expensive, you have a MUCH greater variety of bulbs right now. T5's are still relatively new to North America so its going to be another year or so before we really see a wide variety of bulb types.


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

Seems we got it all summed up 

Only thing is for me is...the only HO T5's I have seen were WAY more expensive than that GE T5.

These were the only other T5's I knew about.
http://www.reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104067.html

The Cheep non HO ones only come in a 10k where as the expencive HO ones come in 65k. Thats why I wanted to keep tabs on how the cheep non HO 10ks do for plants


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

You can't really compare.. That is a kit that comes with several bulbs and an Electronic Ballast, end clips.. etc

This is just the bulb

http://www.reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104038.html

And that is about right for an "Aquarium Bulb"... the prices are always vastly inflated.


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

Yeah thats what I was kinda thinking...that that kit comes with a lot...but you could DIY and get it a little less i guess.


What is 16c$ in US$?


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

And for even more amusement.. they sell the same bulb I spec'd out earlier.. but at a REALLY high price.

http://www.reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104048.html


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Here is the spectral output of the GE Bulb










Its certainly not great... but its not too bad either... especially for the cost.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

NOLACLS said:


> Yeah thats what I was kinda thinking...that that kit comes with a lot...but you could DIY and get it a little less i guess.
> 
> 
> What is 16c$ in US$?


Just over $10


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

It looks like Phillips has hopped on the T5 Bandwagon as well. I use 5000k bulbs over my 90 Gallon tank and my 22 Gallon tank and they are doing very well. These look pretty similar to the ones I use over my 90 though...

http://www.lighting.philips.com/nam/product_database/fluor/displayfluor.php?id=577

ALTO® SILHOUETTE™ High Output Programmed Start 

Feature: Miniature Bipin Fluorescent Lamps with ALTO Technology 
Watts: 54 
Bulb: T5 
Base: Min. Bipin 
Product Number: 046677-13510-3 
Ordering Code: F54T5/850/HO/ALTO 
Package Quantity: 40 
Description: TL 850, 5000K 
CRI: 85 
Rated Avg. Life (Hrs.): 20,000 
Design Lumens: 4750 
Nominal Length: 46 
Approximate Initial Lumens: 5000


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

GDominy said:


> NOLACLS said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah thats what I was kinda thinking...that that kit comes with a lot...but you could DIY and get it a little less i guess.
> ...


Wow so that place sells them for almost twice as much.


Very good info in here


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

So now what do you think would be brighter/better for a plant tank (20gal tall)...A 2x55wPC setup from AHS or a 2x24wT5 setup like that one from reefgeek that has the nice reflectors and all?? I know the watts are not close but the T5 is supposed to put out more lumns per watt than the PC right?


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Well.. 

Given the choices you gave.. I would say the 2 x 55W kit.

Or secret option number 3.. DIY a 4 x 24W T5 hood ;-)


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/t5reflectcomparo.shtml

Look at this test done with the reflectors 

I went with a 2xT5 with that because it was close in price...but you could fit 4xT5 in the same space as the 2x55 from AHS.


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## heaven2 (Jan 9, 2003)

Wasserpest, my tank is 36" long * 24" wide * 24" deep. Inside measurement of the canopy under the mirror polished aluminum relector is 9" front to back and 35.5 side to side. Replacing the canopy is not an option.

The 4 current 20 watt bulbs are placed roughly like this:

=================
================
=================
================

I was thinking that I could relocate everything and thus squeeze in 2 more 20 watt T12 bulbs (adding 40 watts) but this would have the bulbs so tight they'd be touching each other, so that won't work. Maybe just OD them? Or maybe T8s or T5s?

I plan on sticking with low light plants but feel they could benefit from a bit more light.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

heaven, all things considered I would probably put 2 96W PC kits into this ballast. This would give you plenty of light for healthy plant growth. Or you can get the 2x 96 watt kit from AHS, provided it fits into your hood this would get you a lot of light for under US$200... I don't think you will be happy with either combination of regular fluorescents.

By the way, I really like the way my tank looks with the two 10000K T5's. Brighter and whiter, plants pearling, ambulia tips turning pink, internodes getting shorter. Recommended!


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## heaven2 (Jan 9, 2003)

Thanks Wasserpest for your recommendation. I will seriously consider the 2*96 watt PC kit from AHS. Maybe for Christmas?

Hmmm. I might try recycling my old reflector, ballasts and bulbs into a new enclosure for use over a 65 gallon growout tank. Hate to waste good stuff! 

edit: just remeasured the canopy and I goofed, its only 34.5 inches so I guess the 96 watt PCs are out. Maybe the 65 watt PCs instead.


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## hoangceo (Nov 19, 2003)

I am looking for a place to buy the Helios T5 High performance fluorescent light. Thanks


Wasserpest said:


> I just saw, fell in love with, and bought a "Helios T5 High Performance Fluorescent Light Fixture Lamp" at my LFS for $24. I was shopping around for replacement bulbs for my T8, the current ones I have (5000K) are too yellow/green for me and I was looking for 6500K to get a whiter appearance.
> 
> This bulb includes the ballast, fixture and cables... it is 38W, and 10000K. The price almost seems to be too good to be true... but we'll see how it compares to my current T8's.
> 
> ...


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## heaven2 (Jan 9, 2003)

Not sure if this will help, but it looks to me like the Helios T5 is a Sylvania product. See here: http://www.sylvania.com/catalog/pdfs/42-43PHO-DIM.pdf


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

try this http://www.aquatic-creations-online.com/t5.htm


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## 05dr (Nov 28, 2003)

someone recently asked about helios t5 bulbs on my regular forum (cichlid-forum.com) and this forum was referred to so i decided to drop by and add my 2 cents to this thread. 

i have 2 60" 80 t5 bulbs wired up to a fulham workhorse 7 ballast over my tank and have done quite a bit of reading on them. i would post pics but my imagestation account just ran out and i need to find another place to post them. now, back to lighting.

1. helios has a horrible track record with their pc lighting. do a search on reefcentral.com. i don't buy from companies with bad records period. no matter how great or cheap the deal. 

2. although a 48" t5ho 54W bulb puts out a little more light than a 55W pc bulb (grossly ~5000 lumens vs ~4800 lumens respectively) the key difference is their ability to be reflected. what makes t5 so great is it's small bulb diameter. that unit does not have a good reflector and in fact is not suitable to even mount one. the reflector to use for t5 and some proof of it's efficiency relative to others is outlined here: 
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/t5reflectcomparo.shtml 
we are talking about multiples of increased light output which is unheard or with other flourescent bulbs. although done by the manufacturer their claims have been verified by others on reefcentral. what it means is that with the proper relflector you can effectively quadruple your light output. without the reflector t5's only advantages are saving space and longer bulb life but with the disadvantage of initial cost (around 20 for each individual reflector and bulbs between 20 to 40 bucks depending on length and make) and few bulbs to choose from (these will improve with time but may not ever approach that of t-8's and t-12's). 

although "t5" compact bulbs give off nearly the same initial lumens because they are lined up next to one another they suffer from re-strike, a wide bulb which is difficult to efficiently reflect, and increased heat which decreases light output and bulb life. those who have switched from compact floro's to t5 on reefcentral have been blown away and atleast one member has used a lux meter which is reading off the chart (he has 8 t5 bulbs over a 180)

once again please refer to this link 
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/t5reflectcomparo.shtml
for what makes t5's so special because without a nice reflector compact flourescents and t8's work just as well.

one awesome source for info on t5's is reefcentral.com which is where i learned most of what i have about them.


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

I love the way that T5 10k looks. A divine white tone indeed.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

05dr,
Thanks for all the info. I wasn't familiar with the Helios brand, and just took the opportunity to try out t5's in a convenient way. Going forward, I will look for the bare bulbs and wire them to whatever good ballast I can find, if I really have to throw out the helios ballast/fixture as they suggest. 
So far I am very happy with the light output, appearance of the tank, and effects on plant growth. The tips of my rotala and ambulia have turned into a nice salmon color, and the internodes are much shorter now. No detrimental effects on any plants.
I couldn't agree more that a good reflector is what makes lighting efficient. In my opinion, a quality reflector is more important than the wattage of the bulbs. Thanks for posting the link, even though I was convinced of this already.


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

NOLACLS said:


> http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/t5reflectcomparo.shtml
> 
> Look at this test done with the reflectors


Yeah thats the same comparo I posted with the reflectors.

I agree 100% on good reflector make a big difference. But for the cost of these cheep t5s and the ease of setup...I think if someone does not feel like shelling out a ton of $$ and they have a smallish shallow tank they want to just light up...these are great option.


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## 05dr (Nov 28, 2003)

> But for the cost of these cheep t5s and the ease of setup...I think if someone does not feel like shelling out a ton of $$ and they have a smallish shallow tank they want to just light up...these are great option.





> helios has a horrible track record with their pc lighting. do a search on reefcentral.com. i don't buy from companies with bad records period. no matter how great or cheap the deal.


i find products with questionable reliability end up just being an additional cost to add to whatever i end up having to replace them with. just ask the folks who have owned rio's and thought they had a great deal only to loose their entire tank and find an oil slick on top of their tank. i have never owned a helios fixture but i have never heard anything good about them other than the price. with the lack of bulb choices for t5 i think an ahsupply with the GE bulbs from that cheap online place would be the best "cheap" deal. more light, great price, and a well established track record. if someone has the dough than the output of a t5 bulb with an indiv reflector is hard to beat without going to an efficiently reflected double ended metal halide setup.

although the cost of t5 equipment is pretty similar at most places reefgeek.com has a little better prices, a little better selection, and great customer service. there are also some good deals on ebay. good luck!


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## 05dr (Nov 28, 2003)

a good current thread on reefcentral regarding helios lighting:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=274388


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

The bottom line, stay away from Helios


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

05dr, thanks again for the link. Now I understand why they suggest to throw away the entire fixture... and I am holding my breath to see how long they will actually last. Hope those ballasts that come with the 38W bulbs (must be tiny!). If not, I will just take it as another experience. So far I love them...
Searching on the web, there don't seem to be any sources of T5's with good color temps (>5000K) around here...


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## 05dr (Nov 28, 2003)

> Searching on the web, there don't seem to be any sources of T5's with good color temps (>5000K) around here...


- www.reefgeek.com --awesome place to order from and have the most and newest versions of bulbs (still not too much to choose from)
- http://www.happyreefing.com/
- www.customaquatic.com
-Dr Fosters and Smith
- http://www.aqualuxlighting.com/

i have a link with the commercial bulbs available but am currently at work so i will post it when i get home. that way you might be able to find cheaper bulbs at your typical lighting supply places.


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## NOLACLS (Nov 3, 2003)

Wow I didnt know they were that bad...I have a lfs that has sold these and have not had any problems at all on the t5's (dont know about the other stuff) They have had some 4 footers on there tanks for a few months now. Thanks for the info


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Heh, I should have been more specific... any _reasonably priced _T5's... The ones for sale were all in the warm-white range.


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