# RCS dying one by one with no apparent reason



## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Hi guys,
I've read a few posts about dying shrimps but still can't figure out what's happening in my tank.
I have a fully cycled 40 gal tank (not a breeder) with ADA Aquasoil that was set up 4 months ago.

I have a few plants (DHG "carpet in the making", alternanthera reineckii mini and staurogyne repens), a driftwood bonsai with vesicularia montagneii (Xmas moss). My filter is a Cobalt Ext (canister) with a sponge pre-filter and I added a Hydor Koralia nano pump (240) to have a better water circulation in the tank. I also have Co2 injection on a timer (2bps) and LED lights on 8 hours per day.

My reading are completety normal with ADI test kit:
Ammonia 0/0.25, API test kit is hard to read
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
Kh 0 (ADA Amazonia)
Gh 5 : I'm buffering with Seachem Equilibrium it every water change as my tap water is very soft here (reads 0 Gh out of the tap).
Ph is 6.4

I have two Otos in the tank who are doing great. No fish yet. I introduced 20 painted red RCS shrimps in my tank 3 weeks ago and they were doing fine. However, they started "disappearing" one by one. I only found one dead body that I removed, but can't figure out where the rest is, even after looking EVERYWHERE in the tank, so I can safely assume that they're dead. Note that I also have supposedly 6 amano shrimps (that I rarely see except at night), so they might have eaten the dead RCS. Now I can count 7 RCS left, but yesterday my only berried shrimp dropped dead just in front of me. I don't know what's going on. They look healthy, no weird color or spot, nothing. I have plenty of white shells around so I suppose that my shrimps are molting just fine. I feed them Hikari shrimp food, blanched zucchinis, algae wafers every other day as they're always munching on biofilm.
I got those shrimps from a breeder that lives around and uses the same kind of water (very soft tap water) as me, and they were very healthy. I don't know if he buffed his Gh but it's probably the case or he wouldn't be able to have them molt properly.
I'm at my wit's end. This is my first time keeping shrimps and I'm very frustrated and sad that they're dying in my care.
I'm about to buy a TDS meter but as RCS are hardy shrimps, I thought that it wasn't needed!


If you have any idea about what went wrong, please share...
Thanks
Elsa


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## Tiger15 (Jan 7, 2018)

Are you talking about RCS or CRS? Two different species and hardiness.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Tiger15 said:


> Are you talking about RCS or CRS? Two different species and hardiness.


 RCS, red cherry shrimp. My fingers were lazy and confused this morning :/


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

I would speak to the breeder if possible and find out what they do to their water. GH5 is still on the softer side for them, but the fact you are seeing moults is a good sign. Do you add KH in too?

Have you checked inside the filter (I know you said you have a pre-filter but they are sneaky). How shrimp safe is the circulation pump?

It's a little odd you have no nitrates, but you have such a small bioload I wouldn't be too worried.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

I tried to contact the breeder but haven't heard from him.
At first I didn't put a pre-filter on my intake. My Amanos (that were tiny at the time) pulled a Houdini on me and I finally found them chilling at the bottom of the canister which was extremely funny. But yeah, I bought a pre-filter when I got my RCS. So far noone ended up in the canister (I checked this morning). I've been slowly raising the Gh to acclimate them but I'm worried that this would be the reason I had so many deaths. Maybe it wasn't still slow enough? I'm adding 3 "points" per water change. 
As for the Kh, I stopped buffering it as someone on the forum told me that my substrate, - Ada Amazonia- is absorbing all Kh in the tank, and is actually acting like a buffer for the Ph.


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## KZB (Jan 3, 2018)

Kh at zero can be a problem, you want minimal 3kh to prevent ph swings. Keeping shrimp is about stable parameters and temperature. Random die offs maybe caused stress. Idk if your ph is moving too much for them when your co2 kicks on? check for copper, CSMB has copper but of dosed correctly it shouldn't have enough to kill the shrimp. Good luck


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

I understand that a 0Kh could be a problem but I have no way of increasing it as Ada Amazonia absorbs it all. I checked my Ph with Co2 on and Co2 off and it's pretty stable, either 6.4 or 6.8, so it seems that this substrate is acting as a buffer. 
What is CSMB?


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> What is CSMB?


CSM+B is a commonly used micro fertilizer and like all good fertilizers has some copper in it. Too much copper in the water can be toxic the fish as well as shrimp. at the levels commonly used in any aquarium fertilizer it should not be toxic. Based on your question I am guessing you are not using it. Since your water is so soft you probably need a fertilizer to get plants to grow. What fertilizer are you using? Are you using CO2 for your plants?

The main source of copper in aquariums doesn't come from the fertilizer or food. The primary source of copper is your tap water. My tap water (which I have never used in my aquarium) has about 50ppb of copper in it. About 10 times higher than needed by plants. Most of the time this copper comes from copper pipes in most homes. US regulations specifies a maximum copper level of 1000ppm. So you might want to get a test kit for copper and verify it is at a ox level. 

You might want to try getting and air pump and air stone and putting that in your water. Insufficient oxygen could be killing your shrimp. Your amano and Otos may be more tolerant of lower oxygen levels. If your problem is low oxygen this might pumping air into the tank may help.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

I'm using Thrive S as fertilizer. It's specially made for shrimps.
I'm using pressurized Co2 but started with a low bps (I started two weeks ago). If they didn't have enough oxygen, wouldn't they show signs? Like erratic swimming or trying to get out of the tank? They look completely fine and are acting normally.
I'll check for copper in the tank!


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

It might help to take out the water pump as that can kill shrimp... might try stopping CO2 temporarily....

But the major thing I see is the GH. Ideally, it should be about 7-8. If you can contact the breeder and ask them what they keep their shrimp at, it may help, but GH still needs to be higher. I can say that from experience, just because you see molts and berried females does not mean that your shrimp are thriving. I had babies, but they died faster than the adults due to the water being too soft! (3 GH) Once the water parameters were fixed, they started living longer!

Please *DO NOT* add KH as the information you received is correct! Most people do keep Neos (red cherry shrimp, right? you're still reverting to CRS, crystal red shrimp!) in water with KH, but as has been mentioned, your substrate is absorbing the KH and releasing tannins/acid to lower the pH. By adding KH, you'll be potentially causing a higher parameter swing than without using it since KH wants to raise the pH, it *will* raise the TDS and then the substrate has to buffer to lower it back down... and all this will cause your substrate to lose it's buffering capacities faster and potentially cause more stress to the inhabitants.

You might also want to look into a different liquid test kit (Sera? Nutrafin?) if you can't tell if ammonia is 0 or not... or maybe a newer API?



I have a TDS meter for the same exact reason you are having issues. Also why I got the GH and KH test kits. I use RO water now, and I use the TDS meter to make sure the RO water I buy is RO (don't have a machine so I buy it from the store), I use it for water changes, for remineralizing new water, heck, I even use a TDS meter to acclimate shrimp/fish into a new tank! (if I don't do the plop and drop method)




SO - NUMBER 1 thing to do - keep raising GH.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Sorry about the misunderstanding between RCS and CRS, my phone keyboard is acting up again!
I'll keep raising my Gh slowly. I just don't want to do it all at once as I'm scared that going from 0Gh to 8Gh is gonna do more bad than good. Right now I'm at 6Gh, so by the end of the week my water will be in the right range.


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## KZB (Jan 3, 2018)

The good thing about raising your gh. Is once the shrimps are acclimated at an 8gh that you worked them slowly too. Then prepping your water for it will be easier from there. 

But keeping your kh at 0 will cause more problems down the line. You can try capping your substrate with sand to prevent buffering. And then you can work on raising your kh. Just an idea


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

KZB said:


> The good thing about raising your gh. Is once the shrimps are acclimated at an 8gh that you worked them slowly too. Then prepping your water for it will be easier from there.
> 
> But keeping your kh at 0 will cause more problems down the line. You can try capping your substrate with sand to prevent buffering. And then you can work on raising your kh. Just an idea



I don't understand how keeping my KH at 0 would be a problem down the line. Ada Amazonia is acting as a buffering agent and my Ph is very stable. I measured it 3 times today (early morning before lights and Co2, while Co2 and lights are running and just after lights are off) : it's 6.6 and not moving.
My breeder also uses Ada Amazonia for his shrimps (but no Co2) and has no problem with 0Kh. Isn't Gh supposed to be the most important parameter for shrimps and not Kh?
Also it would be hard to add sand on top of my substrate as there are plants and half a carpet growing :/


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## KZB (Jan 3, 2018)

Sorry I was thinking more of in the long run of your tank. If you were planning on keeping shrimps past your substrate buffering capabilities. Just me thinking too far ahead


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Oh I see. Well I still have a few years before that happens!


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> If they didn't have enough oxygen, wouldn't they show signs? Like erratic swimming or trying to get out of the tank? They look completely fine and are acting normally.


For a person lack of oxygen there are often 2 symptoms, shortness of breath, than causing a bluish color, and death. Shortness of breath and color won't work with shrimp. erratic swimming requires more oxygen and many shrimp cannot live out of the water very long. Also when you look at them the lights are probably on and the plants are producing some oxygen. However when the light go off the plants stop producing oxygen and and in fact start to consume it. As a result oxygen levels can drop very fast when the lights are out. The next morning you might find all or some of your shrimp dead.


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## beanbag (May 7, 2018)

Do you dechlorinate your water?
Prime should take care of chlorine, ammonia, copper and other heavy metals.
It's fine for KH to be zero, but get a ph monitor to watch for ph swings, and turn down the CO2 for now.
Do you have water aeration?


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

I do dechlorinate my water.
I turned my co2 to the lowest setting two days ago but before that I checked the Ph every day three times a day and it was extremely stable (6.6).
Found another dead shrimp yesterday.
Meanwhile, Amanos are doing well and growing big...
No real water aeration but enough of movement and flow in the tank with the canister outtake and the hydor Koralia Nano 240.


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## beanbag (May 7, 2018)

Broutilde said:


> I do dechlorinate my water.



With what?
It could be possible that something in the tank or water is slowly poisoning the shrimp, e.g. plants that came with pesticides. Or is your driftwood bonsai the kind that is glued to a rock, and something is leeching out of that? (did you boil it first?)
If you're willing to throw some money at it, I'd get a reverse osmosis system (without the storage tank) with TDS meter and salty shrimp GH remineralizer. Then at least you can make sure your incoming water is ok.
If the problem is something leeching out, you can try increasing the water change frequency to dilute the poison.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

I use Prime.
Driftwood is not glued on a rock and I boiled it for a while for several days and then let it sit in water to remove all tannins (took a few weeks a several water changes). I'll try to increase the water changes but don't have money for a RO system unfortunately. Tds meter is supposed to be delivered shortly.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I use RO water from the grocery store.... The self dispensing Primo water machines. A TDS meter helps to ensure what you get is actually RO water from the machines. Usually 30 some cents a gallon and then I just add minerals to it to the desired GH, KH and TDS. I store/transfer in 5 gallon buckets from Home Depot or Lowes.


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## novv (Jun 14, 2012)

Broutilde said:


> Oh I see. Well I still have a few years before that happens!




Mine only lasted for about a year and a half.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KZB (Jan 3, 2018)

I dont know if this is ok to post another forum. But just trying to help the original poster.


https://skfaquatics.com/forum/topic...udden-deaths-on-water-changes-possible-cause/


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

KZB said:


> I dont know if this is ok to post another forum. But just trying to help the original poster.
> 
> 
> https://skfaquatics.com/forum/topic...udden-deaths-on-water-changes-possible-cause/



Thanks, I'll read this right away


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## 64D-1701 (Apr 7, 2018)

Broutilde said:


> Thanks, I'll read this right away


Regarding that link, I don't think Prime is the problem. I use a python to fill my tank with tap water for my weekly 50% water change. I dose the amount of Prime for the entire tank volume, then start the water. It's never caused fish or shrimp deaths, or even any signs of stress. As some people in that thread mentioned, it's possible to send them into shock if you don't match the incoming water temperature to the tank temperature. If you're worried about a lack of oxygen, run an air stone to disturb the water surface when the CO2 is off. This could be important if your canister outflow isn't disturbing the surface enough for oxygen exchange. I run one on a timer when my CO2 is off, just to be safe. You can also buy a Salifert Oxygen test kit to measure your O2 saturation.

I have a healthy colony of about 60 RCS that reproduces regularly. But I do remember when I first added RCS to my tank, I had maybe 5-10 die for unknown reasons. Moving them and putting them in a new tank causes stress, and I think some are just more hardy and tolerant of various conditions. The survivors acclimated well, and every generation of babies has been healthy. It's very rare that I see a dead shrimp. I wonder if you don't really need to change anything, but just wait for some of them to adapt to your tank? The point that was brought up earlier about your internal water pump being a shrimp hazard is also a valid concern.


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## TheLordOfTheFish (Mar 11, 2017)

I am having this same problem with Crystal red shrimp in a high tech planted tank. I narrowed it down to CO 2 and bad flow in 1 area (almost all my dead shrimp are in the same spot). Also, my TDS creep is about 60 over the week due to the fert regime. IT doesn't seem to be the same issue with your tank though plus red cherries can survive a nuclear blast so this is a bit puzzling. I do remember that I did have a lot of deaths with reds when I started out on a different tank and once the few survivors got used to it and multiplied, the problem was gone.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

I don't think that the internal pump is a shrimp hazard. I inspected it and there's no mechanical parts that could physically harm the shrimp. Never seen any shrimp venture near it too, maybe an Amano that was quickly pushed away by the flow.
My dead shrimps were found in different spots in the tank and since I added that nano pump my water flow has been better without being too strong. My canister outflow is a lily pipe and is definitely disturbing the surface, and so is the nano pump.
Like you guys said, it's a bit puzzling as I really believe that I'm not doing anything wrong here. But like you said the RCS have probably a hard time adjusting to my parameters. As almost all of them are painted red, it could be that they're weaker than a "normal" RCS? I don't know, maybe too much selective breeding/genes have a consequence on the shrimp's health? Just a thought


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## 64D-1701 (Apr 7, 2018)

Broutilde said:


> I don't think that the internal pump is a shrimp hazard. I inspected it and there's no mechanical parts that could physically harm the shrimp. Never seen any shrimp venture near it too, maybe an Amano that was quickly pushed away by the flow.
> My dead shrimps were found in different spots in the tank and since I added that nano pump my water flow has been better without being too strong. My canister outflow is a lily pipe and is definitely disturbing the surface, and so is the nano pump.
> Like you guys said, it's a bit puzzling as I really believe that I'm not doing anything wrong here. But like you said the RCS have probably a hard time adjusting to my parameters. As almost all of them are painted red, it could be that they're weaker than a "normal" RCS? I don't know, maybe too much selective breeding/genes have a consequence on the shrimp's health? Just a thought


I was just thinking about them getting sucked into the Hydor Koralia impeller if they were walking on the sides of the housing. But if they don't go near it, it's not a problem. Hopefully a few will adapt and start reproducing for you.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

64D-1701 said:


> I was just thinking about them getting sucked into the Hydor Koralia impeller if they were walking on the sides of the housing. But if they don't go near it, it's not a problem. Hopefully a few will adapt and start reproducing for you.



Oh I see. No they don't come near it and if they did, they would probably come out "pureed" 
I'll cross my fingers for babies; I have 2 females berried hopefully they won't die before hatching the eggs!


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Well good news is so far no other death and I'M A MOMMY NOW GOT SHRIMPLETS I'm extremely excited! Merry Christmas to you all 🎄


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## KZB (Jan 3, 2018)

Wow that's Great news, Congratulations!!! I am glad to hear things are turning around for the better for you. Merry Christmas!!!


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## 64D-1701 (Apr 7, 2018)

Broutilde said:


> Well good news is so far no other death and I'M A MOMMY NOW GOT SHRIMPLETS I'm extremely excited! Merry Christmas to you all 🎄


Awesome, those baby cherries should thrive since they were born in your tank parameters (as long as nobody eats them, lol). You should have a nice little colony in a few months.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

64D-1701 said:


> Awesome, those baby cherries should thrive since they were born in your tank parameters (as long as nobody eats them, lol). You should have a nice little colony in a few months.



I think they're pretty safe with otos and amano shrimps.
Thanks all for your help!


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

As long as the parameters are good, then yes, offspring born in tank should be fine.

Just thought to mention since my SO was the first to get into shrimp keeping, we had babies that died faster than the parents due to incorrect water parameters... which he thought was fine because "everyone" said that cherry shrimp do fine in tap. Not ours. It was too soft...


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Zoidburg said:


> As long as the parameters are good, then yes, offspring born in tank should be fine.
> 
> Just thought to mention since my SO was the first to get into shrimp keeping, we had babies that died faster than the parents due to incorrect water parameters... which he thought was fine because "everyone" said that cherry shrimp do fine in tap. Not ours. It was too soft...



So far so good, I'll keep my Gh at 7/8 to avoid unnecessary deaths! Thanks for your advice


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Well after going on vacation for a few weeks and leaving strict instructions to my companion, I came back to an almost empty tank. Almost no shrimp left, babies are almost all dead. Found a dead Amano shrimp yesterday and a dead baby CRS a few minutes ago. The only survivors are the otos. I tested my water everything is normal. I'm just gonna give up.


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## 64D-1701 (Apr 7, 2018)

That's so weird. Sorry for your struggles.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

So after my small colony wiped out, only 2 remaining shrimplets were left alive. I ultimately blamed it on the quality of the shrimps I bought from the breeder.
After a few weeks I decided to retry the experience, water parameters still good. I contacted another breeder that sold me sakura RCS, those ones seemed more robust! It's been three weeks, only one weird death: one shrimp died and another one from the colony ate its belly...the dead shrimp didn't even have time to turn pink :/
Anyways today I come back home and feed them and start watching them to relax. Then I notice something strange on the belly of one shrimp. It looks like eggs but it's not. More like a moss. No...a fungus. Ellobiopsidae. I'm glad I was already seated.
Now besides removing/quarantining the diseased shrimp from my tank I know that they're nothing much I can do. Trying the salt baths etc. as she's not at the final stage yet, but I don't have much hope. I don't understand HOW though, my shrimps weren't imported I bought them from a local breeder that has no green fungus in his tanks.
What I'm more worried about is for it to spread to the rest of the colony. 
After reading this : https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news...eocaridina-shrimp-parasite-and-how-to-cure-it I can't really imagine dismantling my whole planted 40 gal with a DHG carpet, sanitize everything and restart anew, I really have no desire/strength to do so. I might as well get out of the hobby.

Is there any medicine that I could dose to my whole tank to save the rest (as of course I don't know if/when they're gonna develop the disease)? Paraguard is not shrimp safe and I didn't find anything else on the forums. Also I have Amanos and Otos in the tank.

If they end up all dying, will the green fungus stay dormant in my tank? Also is it contagious to fish? I might as well make that tank a community tank then...I know that as Caridina , Amano shrimps won't get it, only Neos are potential victims.

I'm really really bummed...


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

I'm so sorry that has happened to you. The initial ones probably brought the parasite in, and then they killed off your second colony 

I would think that the parasite would eventually die off without a host. The question is really how long would that take, and would adding any kind of livestock provide a way for them to survive?

Personally, I'd remove any remaining livestock, crank the heat, maybe add some salt, and wait a couple of months (add a touch of ammonia to keep BB fed). During that process, I'd set up a clean tank, start a new colony there, and then move babies into the old tank to test and see if it's all gone.

If it's a buffering substrate, skip the neos and get some CRS or something


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

I'll try to set up a new tank but moneywise it's not possible right away. I will have to wait a bit...
Anyone knows if this parasite can attack fish or other invertebrates?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

No reported instances of this fungal/parasite/algae (I think it's algae, based on "new" evidence) in amanos and I've only seen it once in a Caridina, but if I recall right, it was Paracaridina, not Caridina.

I wish I could say that after x-amount of time it's gone... but I've heard it showing up in 3 months, 6 months and even 2 years after adding shrimp to a tank.

Can you take a picture of the infected shrimp and share? And also send it to the person you received it from? Because it usually doesn't appear instantly and takes some time. Could be wrong though. Here's a full list of things you can try but I can't say any one of them is guaranteed to work.

If it's algae, it's *Cladogonium ogishimae* plus article. Different ways to attempt treatment below.

Update: An alga parasiting freshwater shrimps ? Naturaliste



*******

Ellobiopsidae is a filter feeder parasite that affects the Neocaridina species of shrimp, often attaching to the body of the shrimp around the swimmerets. Shrimp with a large infestation of this parasite may have difficulty swimming and molting. Some advanced stages may result in shrimp turning green internally. No treatment is guaranteed to work, and some of these treatments may outright kill infected shrimp, if the parasite doesn’t kill them first. 


*Treatment Option #1* – Tank Blackout 

If you have a tank of infected shrimp, this is the easiest treatment to do. Turn the aquarium light off and cover the tank with thick black plastic bags. Leave the tank in complete darkness for two to three weeks. Longer may be better.

Alternatively, you can try placing the shrimp in a jar or container of tank water in a dark location such as a cupboard or drawer. 

Ref: https://www.facebook.com/Desert.Shrimp.Depot/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1444173212543245 

*Treatment Option #2* – Salted Aquarium 

It is not clear if Aquarium Salt or Marine Salt is the best option here. This is what worked for one person. 

Start by doing a 50% water change. Add 1 gram Instant Ocean Marine Salt per 1 liter of fresh water. EXAMPLE: If the tank is 30 liters and you do a 50% water change, add 30 grams of MS to 15 liters of water, drip acclimate back into the remaining 15 liters of tank water. In one week, repeat the first two steps. At the second week, do another 50% water change only using fresh water. After this, you can continue doing your normal weekly water changes. 

Ref: https://www.petshrimp.com/discussio...7&sid=74cb674f73bf08876a54a89873031236#p11157 

*Treatment Option #3* – ParaGuard 

Use 1.25 ml (¼ recommended dosing) of ParaGuard for every 10 gallons of water. Repeat treatment daily for up to two weeks. You may need to experiment with higher dosages if a lower dosage doesn’t kill the parasites. 

NOTE: Full dosage of ParaGuard is not recommended for shrimp. 

Ref: Seachem Laboratories E-mail Correspondence

*Treatment Option #4* – Ick Medication (Malachite Green/Formalin) 

Using an isolation tank (1 gallon of tank water is fine), place shrimp into tank. If you have some Indian Almond Leaves or Guava Leaves and a live plant (moss or hornwort is ok), add to tank. Using turkey baster to clean up as much shrimp waste as possible (about a cup or so of water), and add back in remineralized RO water. Dose 1 drop every day for 3 days, then do a large water change. Allow the shrimp to rest for a few days, then repeat dosage. Rest and repeat dosage a third time. Continue cleaning and doing water changes. After a months time, check to see if shrimp are still infected. 

Alternatively, in a separate tank, start out with half dose on the first day, then a full dose for another 2 to 3 days. Maintain a 10-15% water change daily. Once the parasite is gone, do a 100% water change and observe the shrimp for a few more days. 

Ref: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...618057-cured-my-shrimp-parasite-protozoa.html 
Ref: Green "fungal" infection on red cherry swimmerets. - Page 2 - Care, feeding and breeding - The Shrimp Spot 
Ref: http://shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/topic/11840-berried-rcs-or-ellobiopsidae/#comment-123726 

*Treatment Option #5* – EM Erythromycin 

-insert treatment method- 

*Treatment Option #6* – JBL Fungol 

Component 1: 10 ml per 80 l of water on the 1st day. Add another full dose each on the 3rd day and 5th day if necessary. 

Component 2: 10 ml per 80 l of water on the 7th day. Add another full dose on the 9th day and 11th day if necessary. 

A 30 – 50 % water change should be done immediately prior to each follow-up dose. 

NOTE: These are the directions from the product. For treatment, start out at lower dosages for shrimp. You may try starting at ¼ dose and working up to ¾ dose? Or just dose less than the recommended amount. 

Ref: https://www.petshrimp.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=5264#p35091 

*Treatment Option #7* – Brad’s Treatment Protocol (https://www.facebook.com/bradley.immature?fref=nf) 

Separate infected shrimp into a quarantine tank. Once a day, dip shrimp into a bath containing 100ml of water, ¼ tsp API aquarium salt and .3 ml of Seachem Paraguard for 2 minutes. Repeat daily until infection is gone. 

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9uqsvwyujvehnnk/Treatment Protocol For Green Parasite on RCS V2.0.pdf?dl=0 

*Treatment Option #8* – Chaz 

https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news...eocaridina-shrimp-parasite-and-how-to-cure-it

*Treatment Option #9* – Sera Mycopur 

-insert treatment method- 

Ref: http://www.crustakrankheiten.de/krankheiten-bei/garnelen-krebse-aquarium/systemische-pilzinfektion/ 

*Treatment Option #10* – Kordon Herbal Ich Attack 

Add 10 drops (1 tsp or ~5mL) of HIA to every 10 gallons (45.5 liters) of water. Repeat dose daily until 3-4 days after the last infection is seen. After treatment is finished, do a 20% or more water change. Dose may be doubled, spread 12 hours apart.

HIA may result in discoloration of the water, which is of no harm to the inhabitants. The water will clear over days after the end of treatments with water changes.

American Aquarium Products has recommended the use of this product and may be able to provide additional information if contacted directly. Information not retrieved from hobbiests who have successfully used this cure.

Ref: Aquarium Medications Part 4 | Organic Aquarium Treatments

*Treatment Option #11* – “No Treatment” 

If keeping shrimp in an aquarium with optimal water parameters, the parasite may decline by themselves and possibly even disappear. Most hobbyists, however, find that the parasite may show up within 2-5 months after adding shrimp, and the parasite slowly kills off the adults. 

Ref: Crustahunter » Falscher Pilzbefall, Falscher Garnelenschimmel, Ellobiopsidae 
Ref: https://embed.gyazo.com/9d05c96272bb9c7fcda260be3ab8dd73.png (translation) 

*Treatment Option #12* - The Fishkeeper Freshwater Formula

Directions For Use

Shake well before each use.
For disease treatment, raise water temperature between 82º - 85º and add one capful per ten gallons of water, each day for five days.
For disease prevention add one capful per ten gallons of water weekly and maintain a temperature of 76º - 80º. Store at room temperature.

Ref: https://www.facebook.com/groups/usa...=1823539167727847&comment_tracking={"tn":"R"}


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Thank you Zoidburg.
I tried to take pics but the shrimp is too small and my phone doesn't take good pictures.
After putting it in a glass, the bottom of the glass acted as a magnifying glass and I can definitely say that it looked like this:
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=621097&d=1460873565
Pretty much the same stage too. The shrimp is still shrimping happily for now, even though the quarantine stressed it a lot. I know that it's only one shrimp but I'm still gonna try to save it. I watched Rachel O'Leary's video about her treatment and will try that tonight.
Did it happen to one of your shrimp tank too? I've read one of your post saying that you had one infected shrimp at some point and it died...

I contacted the seller/breeder. He was very sorry even though he never had this parasite in his tanks before, and is even ready to refund me. I'm keeping him posted. 
I wonder what was the reason for this to appear in my tank. 40 gal, 3 amanos, 3 otos, plants and moss and a few seed shrimps. Definitely not overstocked and I do my water changes every week, water parameters are good. Maybe it was a shrimp from the previous batch?
This is probably the universe telling me that I should not keep shrimps and should stick with cats only!


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## ReeferRob (Dec 24, 2018)

Broutilde said:


> So after my small colony wiped out, only 2 remaining shrimplets were left alive. I ultimately blamed it on the quality of the shrimps I bought from the breeder.
> After a few weeks I decided to retry the experience, water parameters still good. I contacted another breeder that sold me sakura RCS, those ones seemed more robust! It's been three weeks, only one weird death: one shrimp died and another one from the colony ate its belly...the dead shrimp didn't even have time to turn pink :/
> Anyways today I come back home and feed them and start watching them to relax. Then I notice something strange on the belly of one shrimp. It looks like eggs but it's not. More like a moss. No...a fungus. Ellobiopsidae. I'm glad I was already seated.
> Now besides removing/quarantining the diseased shrimp from my tank I know that they're nothing much I can do. Trying the salt baths etc. as she's not at the final stage yet, but I don't have much hope. I don't understand HOW though, my shrimps weren't imported I bought them from a local breeder that has no green fungus in his tanks.
> ...


 The discobee article has solid advice in it. I've never kept freshwater shrimp, only marine species and marine shrimp are EXTREMELY sensitive to heavy metals. I run Poly filters in all of my tanks, fresh or salt so that heavy metals are taken out of the equation. Can you quarantine the shrimp colony and feed them the medicated food? 



The fact that your water is so soft leads me to the possibility that it's also quite acidic, that coupled with copper pipes is a problem. I personally think there's a copper issue there weakening the shrimp's immune system allowing the fungus to get a foothold.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

It was a shrimp that was purchased from a store that way.... before I or my other half knew at the time. It was never introduced into the tank with other shrimp, haven't seen it since.

Go with Caridina really... Tigers even. Seem to be less of a hassle than Neos. I struggle with Neos, too! And cats for that matter... lol


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Well out of the tap my Ph is a straight 7,in the tank it's 6.6/6.8 thanks to Ada Amazonia. Isn't Prime supposed to remove/chelate heavy metals?
I might try Polyfilter, at least for 12 hours so it removes all copper.

Bump:


Zoidburg said:


> It was a shrimp that was purchased from a store that way.... before I or my other half knew at the time. It was never introduced into the tank with other shrimp, haven't seen it since.
> 
> Go with Caridina really... Tigers even. Seem to be less of a hassle than Neos. I struggle with Neos, too! And cats for that matter... lol


What I might do is keep them and add caridina. If they survive, great. If not, they'll be replaced.

Bump:


Zoidburg said:


> It was a shrimp that was purchased from a store that way.... before I or my other half knew at the time. It was never introduced into the tank with other shrimp, haven't seen it since.
> 
> Go with Caridina really... Tigers even. Seem to be less of a hassle than Neos. I struggle with Neos, too! And cats for that matter... lol


What I might do is keep them and add caridina. If they survive, great. If not, they'll be replaced by cardinas anyway.


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

Couple questions...

Have you successfully kept shrimp before?

Second, could you tell us more about your week-to-week shrimp husbandry? Water change schedule? Feeding schedule?

I'm wondering if there's some simple underlying problem that we're overlooking. Husbandry problems can cause illness indirectly by stressing an animal and making them more susceptible to disease. I'm wondering if that's what happened in your case.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

ursamajor said:


> Couple questions...
> 
> Have you successfully kept shrimp before?
> 
> ...



Absolutely, I might have done something wrong as it's my first time keeping shrimps.
I'm doing a 15% water change every week-end; cleaning/scraping the glass; rinsing the sponge and other medias in the canister filter. I use tap water treated with Prime for the water change, and add Equilibrium to match the Gh in my tank (which is currently 6Gh).
I don't feed my shrimps that much, after all I only have 3 Amanos and 15 sakuras. I have some Crab cuisine, Shrimp cuisine, Algae wafers (in case that my otos run out of food but that's never been the case) and also feed them frozen spinach (organic!). Usually I feed them every 2/3 days, adding a tiny tiny pinch of food. If there's left over food after 2 hours I remove it.


To get back to the previous suggestion, my LFS didn't have Poly-Filter but I'll try to get some tomorrow at another LFS. I bought a copper test (API) and tested both my tap and my tank: 0ppm.
Also I started treating the poor littly shrimpy with Rid Ich plus (Formalin+Malachite green) , after bathing him in salted water.
I really hope that the little guy makes it even though I know that he has almost no chance of surviving...


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

That's great information! I have a few thoughts.

The weekly water changes are great, all I would recommend is increasing the amount of water changed to 30% per week.

I saw from a previous post that you're familiar with Rachel O'Leary. She's a great resource, especially for shrimp care. I remember hearing her say that it's very easy and common for people to overfeed their shrimp. Maybe that's what's happening here? Shrimp are pretty amazing scavengers, and I've found that mine do well with very little supplemental feeding. What do you think about reducing feeding to once per week?


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

ursamajor said:


> That's great information! I have a few thoughts.
> 
> The weekly water changes are great, all I would recommend is increasing the amount of water changed to 30% per week.
> 
> I saw from a previous post that you're familiar with Rachel O'Leary. She's a great resource, especially for shrimp care. I remember hearing her say that it's very easy and common for people to overfeed their shrimp. Maybe that's what's happening here? Shrimp are pretty amazing scavengers, and I've found that mine do well with very little supplemental feeding. What do you think about reducing feeding to once per week?


Sure why not. I guess that I am scared that they will starve! What consequences would overfeeding have? My nitrates are almost at 0.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

I just spotted a new baby shrimpy :/ that kinda gives me a little bit of hope


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

I think the problem with overfeeding is that the food is too nutritionally dense. Shrimp are adapted to constantly scavenge small amounts of food, like biofilm and algae. Flakes and pellets are relatively high in protein and other nutrients by comparison. I think this can cause problems with growth (i.e. they grow too fast) which in turn can cause problems with molting, which can be fatal.

Couple reasons I think this - first, I know a guy who recently had a crayfish die after a few months of ownership. It should have lived for years. He was frequently feeding high-fat, high-protein tropical fish flakes and whole feeder fish, when a better diet would have included things like leaf litter for the (omnivorous) crayfish to scavenge. The crayfish grew like crazy, molted a bunch of times, then got stuck in a molt and died.

Second, I think it's interesting that you lost a bunch of shrimp when someone else was watching the tank. It is extremely easy and extremely common for pet sitters to unintentionally overfeed a tank.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

So what you're saying is that I should feed them more veggies (spinach, zucchini) and less often? And slow down on the shrimp and crab cuisine from Hikari?
I understand what you mean and will change the type of food and frequency. That's worth trying.


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## ReeferRob (Dec 24, 2018)

Broutilde said:


> So what you're saying is that I should feed them more veggies (spinach, zucchini) and less often? And slow down on the shrimp and crab cuisine from Hikari?
> I understand what you mean and will change the type of food and frequency. That's worth trying.


Try the specialty foods made for shrimp. They are formulated for their specific needs. There are several manufacturers of those foods.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

ReeferRob said:


> Try the specialty foods made for shrimp. They are formulated for their specific needs. There are several manufacturers of those foods.


 Isn't that what "Shrimp cuisine" from Hikari is?


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Broutilde said:


> Isn't that what "Shrimp cuisine" from Hikari is?


You have to be careful with some of these as they are intended for rare or occasional use and not every day feeding. Keep an eye on how much protein is in them and try to keep high protein meals as a rare snack


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## Omar EAZi (Aug 5, 2015)

5Gh is a bit too low for them isn't it? I have RCS in 2 of my tanks, in one of them they've multiplied and there's a huge colony of them, you can find them everywhere, and in the other tank I still have the same number of shrimps that I put in the first time and they're not breeding at all, for me I use same food/water type/everything in both tanks, but can't tell why they're doing VERY well in 1 tank and not very well in the other.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Sorry, I meant 7Gh.
The guy at the LFS told me that shrimp cuisine was safe to feed everyday! I didn't know I shouldn't use it frequently. Also I'm feeding way less now. The diseased shrimp died unfortunately. Wait and see... Hopefully everything is gonna stabilize and I'll finally be able to relax


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## ReeferRob (Dec 24, 2018)

Broutilde said:


> Sorry, I meant 7Gh.
> The guy at the LFS told me that shrimp cuisine was safe to feed everyday! I didn't know I shouldn't use it frequently. Also I'm feeding way less now. The diseased shrimp died unfortunately. Wait and see... Hopefully everything is gonna stabilize and I'll finally be able to relax


I'll look around some tonight and see if I can figure out their protein requirements. We have the same problems in marine tanks. If you overfeed and don't have enough strontium in there they can get hung up in a molt. I know they eat a lot of algae, could that be the issue? Their digestive tract is longer so they're taking up more protein out of the food? I have a friend in Indonesia who raises tropical fish and shrimp, I'll shoot him an email too to see what he feeds them. I can fix your marine shrimp, but I'm out of my depth in freshwater.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

ReeferRob said:


> Broutilde said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, I meant 7Gh.
> ...


Thank you. When I started shrimping I didn't know it would be that complicated! But at the same it's fascinating.
You can't fix my freshwater issues but maybe you can fix my bullying problem in my reef tank at work 😂 I swear it's never ending


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

When I struggled with one tank, I was told to feed it an algae food twice a week and a protein food once a week.

Problem is, many of the so called "algae pellets" are actually protein foods and algae doesn't show up on the list until the 5th-9th ingredient... making it more "algae infused".


Some people have noticed better success sticking to more of an algae/vegetable diet than a protein diet.


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## Jontym (Mar 2, 2018)

I don't mean to be controversial or anything, but people are stating that the shrimp can't be kept in soft water. I keep mine in rainwater and they breed. I do place some snail shells and have a cuttlefish bone to add some minerals but it can't be much.

Stories of shrimp diseases terrify me though, it would be a nightmare to take apart my aquariums.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Jontym said:


> I don't mean to be controversial or anything, but people are stating that the shrimp can't be kept in soft water. I keep mine in rainwater and they breed. I do place some snail shells and have a cuttlefish bone to add some minerals but it can't be much.
> 
> 
> 
> Stories of shrimp diseases terrify me though, it would be a nightmare to take apart my aquariums.


You aren't being controversial, but I think you might be closer to what we are talking about than you realize.

You should take a look at what snail shells and cuttlebone are made of and what they contribute to water when they dissolve. Specifically, consider the pH of rain water and that pH's affect on something like cuttlebone


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Jontym said:


> I don't mean to be controversial or anything, but people are stating that the shrimp can't be kept in soft water. I keep mine in rainwater and they breed. I do place some snail shells and have a cuttlefish bone to add some minerals but it can't be much.


People say they can live just fine in tap water! They died. I have soft tap water... Doesn't work for me. Other people are lucky and have had success, but most people don't.

Do you know what the GH is of your tank?


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## ReeferRob (Dec 24, 2018)

Zoidburg said:


> When I struggled with one tank, I was told to feed it an algae food twice a week and a protein food once a week.
> 
> Problem is, many of the so called "algae pellets" are actually protein foods and algae doesn't show up on the list until the 5th-9th ingredient... making it more "algae infused".
> 
> ...



Lee, my friend in Indo, told me he rarely feeds his any animal protein, but his grow out tanks are outside so they have a great film of algae.



Zoidburg said:


> People say they can live just fine in tap water! They died. I have soft tap water... Doesn't work for me. Other people are lucky and have had success, but most people don't.
> 
> Do you know what the GH is of your tank?



That's the issue I have here, right out of the well, degassed for 24h, my pH is 7-7.2 and a hardness of 2.:surprise:


I've got some food from Thailand that is due to be delivered today, I want to see the protein content of that and I'll be able to do a list of contents.


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## Broutilde (Nov 30, 2018)

Alright it seems that everything stabilized after changing their diet. Basically, I don't feed them anything, maybe a "treat" once a week, and even then it's an extremely small amount. I realized that they have plenty to eat in the tank and they seem fine. No death, and I have berried shrimps now.
ReeferBob did you get a chance to take a look at the content of the food your ordered from Thailand?


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