# Considering starting Excel



## hachi (Jul 30, 2015)

I have a 20 gallon long tank. Lighting is a Finnex Stingray. Sand substrate with root tabs. I dose micros/macros following Tom Barr's recommendations for a low tech/low light tank.

Plants are a bunch of crypts, two flame swords, spiral vals, a Mayaca species, Bacopa Salzmannii, Ludwigia Arcuata, anubis small and large, one Aponogeton Ulvaceus, and some flame moss.

This is my first tank (been set up for about seven months), and I have no experience with Excel. I have shrimp, mystery snails, nerite snails, otos, and chili rasbora.

Will Excel harm any of my plants or animals? I read that it can be poisonous and some plants won't tolerate it. I'm mostly trying to get a stem plant growing well in my tank. Everything else besides the stem plants seems to be doing fine. Thank you for any help.


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## Fish_wiz (Dec 20, 2015)

It will work but as you have read, use caution. Always dose exactly as the instructions say or less. I have had no problems using it on my 1.2 gallon. I get good growth and with flourish iron, my red ludwigia is a beautiful red.


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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

I use double the manufacturers recommendation with good results. Same setup as op. 20 long with a stingray. All crypts with killifish. I also have one layer of gray fiberglass screen under light to dim it just a bit. Crypts and fish doing well.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

I've heard vals will melt, so start dosing slowly, DON'T add the large initial dose recommended on the label, start with a half of regular dose and build up to a double dose over the next couple weeks, vals should be adapted by then


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## kuriuskitten (Jan 22, 2016)

*Liquid CO2*

I've used both Excel and Flourish in my low tech 55g. I've experimented with both products, and my plants seemed to have looked and grown better after using Flourish. Never noticed much difference just from Excel. Might need to purchase new bottle though, the products seem to lose strength after about 6 months.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

kuriuskitten said:


> I've used both Excel and Flourish in my low tech 55g. I've experimented with both products, and my plants seemed to have looked and grown better after using Flourish. Never noticed much difference just from Excel. Might need to purchase new bottle though, the products seem to lose strength after about 6 months.


Excel is not a standard fertilizer, and is not intended to replace any other fertilizer product. It supplies carbon for the plants, and that is all. It should never be dosed at 5 ml per 10 gallons, in spite of what Seachem says. I find it works best at 2 ml per 10 gallons, dosed every day near the time the lights come on. As far as I can tell it does not lose strength while in the bottle. I now use "Metricide 14 day" which is very similar to Excel. I get it in one gallon jugs, which last about a year or more for my 65 gallon tank. And, I dose it at 10 ml every day in that tank, which is a bit less than 2 ml per 10 gallons. I also dose per the EI method at about 1/3 the table amounts, alternating between the macro ferts on one day and the trace elements the next day. I do 40% water changes about every 10 to 14 days.

It has never bothered my vals.


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

Double recommended dose daily with Tom Barrs modified ei dosing for low tech is pretty good, but is don't know about the shrimp or vals.


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## hachi (Jul 30, 2015)

Hoppy said:


> Excel is not a standard fertilizer, and is not intended to replace any other fertilizer product. It supplies carbon for the plants, and that is all. It should never be dosed at 5 ml per 10 gallons, in spite of what Seachem says. I find it works best at 2 ml per 10 gallons, dosed every day near the time the lights come on. As far as I can tell it does not lose strength while in the bottle. I now use "Metricide 14 day" which is very similar to Excel. I get it in one gallon jugs, which last about a year or more for my 65 gallon tank. And, I dose it at 10 ml every day in that tank, which is a bit less than 2 ml per 10 gallons. I also dose per the EI method at about 1/3 the table amounts, alternating between the macro ferts on one day and the trace elements the next day. I do 40% water changes about every 10 to 14 days.
> 
> It has never bothered my vals.


Thank you for the info. This is really helpful. Do you have any shrimp or snails? I read that it can be bad for them, but I don't know if that was at higher doses. Thank you.


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

You are probably going to get varying opinions on this. There are a lot of people who say that double dosing excel is bad for shrimp. I would try gradually increasing the dose until you see a change in behavior, then slightly back off. I hear that when exposed to too much excel, they become lethargic. I think you would be ok at the recommended dose everyday.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I have snails in my tank, not by choice, but I'm willing to share the tank with them. Excel has never had any effect on them that I can see. Of course my snails are just pond snails, and there may be different reactions to Excel by other types of snails. I haven't had any shrimp for several years, so I have no experience with Excel and shrimp.


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## hachi (Jul 30, 2015)

sevendust111 said:


> You are probably going to get varying opinions on this. There are a lot of people who say that double dosing excel is bad for shrimp. I would try gradually increasing the dose until you see a change in behavior, then slightly back off. I hear that when exposed to too much excel, they become lethargic. I think you would be ok at the recommended dose everyday.





Hoppy said:


> I have snails in my tank, not by choice, but I'm willing to share the tank with them. Excel has never had any effect on them that I can see. Of course my snails are just pond snails, and there may be different reactions to Excel by other types of snails. I haven't had any shrimp for several years, so I have no experience with Excel and shrimp.


Thanks for the replies everyone. This has been very helpful. Thanks again.


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## FizzyShellfish (Dec 19, 2015)

I use it in my Spec V 5.5 gallon. Every once in a while when I top off water I add a squirt of it. Maybe twice a week? So far, everything is doing really well and my fish are fine.

Go easy with it at first maybe. But IMO a lot of advice you get online is overheated, and overly dramatic.


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## The Big Buddha (Jul 30, 2012)

Hoppy said:


> Excel is not a standard fertilizer, and is not intended to replace any other fertilizer product. It supplies carbon for the plants, and that is all. It should never be dosed at 5 ml per 10 gallons, in spite of what Seachem says. I find it works best at 2 ml per 10 gallons, dosed every day near the time the lights come on. As far as I can tell it does not lose strength while in the bottle. I now use "Metricide 14 day" which is very similar to Excel. I get it in one gallon jugs, which last about a year or more for my 65 gallon tank. And, I dose it at 10 ml every day in that tank, which is a bit less than 2 ml per 10 gallons. I also dose per the EI method at about 1/3 the table amounts, alternating between the macro ferts on one day and the trace elements the next day. I do 40% water changes about every 10 to 14 days.
> 
> It has never bothered my vals.


Hey Hoppy, 

Is that 10ml of metricide per day in the 65g undiluted? Or diluted to excel strength?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The Big Buddha said:


> Hey Hoppy,
> 
> Is that 10ml of metricide per day in the 65g undiluted? Or diluted to excel strength?


It isn't diluted. There is probably 60 gallons of water, and I'm dosing it as if it had 50 gallons, so I saw no reason to dilute it. After a year or so of using Metricide I see no reason not to continue as I am. I think it is well established that 5 ml per 10 gallons of water will be very hard on vals and some other plants, and 1 ml per 10 gallons will have almost no effect on those plants. From what I see, 2 ml per 12 gallons hasn't harmed my vals either. So it is very possible that even 3 ml per 12 gallons wouldn't harm them, but I see no reason to try that much.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Like anything, starting with a small dose and ramping up is a good general plan. I didn't have the results I wanted with Excel/Metricide so I gave up on it personally. Regardless, I'm with Hoppy on this one. His statement is mostly in line with what I remember while reading up on Excel dosing when I was starting myself.


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## hachi (Jul 30, 2015)

Thanks for the help everyone!


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## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

Yeah, I can vouch that vals can react a bit if you dose suddenly, heavily, and or right after planting them from another tank.
As with anything, gradual changes cause less stress on your flora and fauna. After first planting my vals I dosed 1ml per 10 gallons, and that combined with the transplant shock, and some hungry pond snails, made my vals into swiss cheese. They recovered, but they looked awful for a few months.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Metricide is toxic. It can affect your lungs. I have pleuritis (inflammation of the lining of the lung) thus for safety I dilute it. 

My solution:500ml bottle = 100ml of metricide 28 + 400ml of water. 
Dose 30ml daily in a 20g tank.

Seachem Excel contains 1.5% 
Metricide 14 contains 2% glutaraldehyde.
Metricide 28 contains glut 2.5%


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