# new shrimp species from sulawesi



## Martin (Jan 15, 2005)

Have you guys seen these shrimp...

mmmmm .. 

http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/new-shrimps-sulawesi-2424.html

Very expensive though...

Hopefully people will start breeding them soon!


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

wow. beautiful species.


----------



## Madfish (Sep 9, 2007)

I want some I want some. They are great looking and wonderful colors.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Hm, interesting...very nice shrimp!

Too bad some are substrate-specific, ie: freshwater sponges.


----------



## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

yeah, Sulawesi is a central and well developed island.
if these shrimp were easy to breed and survive in
captivity they would already be available to the trade.
I like the ones with those busy high contrast arms.


----------



## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Ooh the 5th one and 8th one are sweet!


----------



## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

waterfaller1 said:


> Ooh the 5th one and 8th one are sweet!


Number 5 doesn't even look real?!?

Those are some amazing looking shrimp. I like all of them.


----------



## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I want some, does the guy give any indication as to where and when they will be available?
Maybe we should send some to ryan and see if he could breed some?


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

epicfish said:


> Hm, interesting...very nice shrimp!
> 
> Too bad some are substrate-specific, ie: freshwater sponges.


I just wrote a nice long reply and deleted it:icon_cool but the answer was more or less...

There was a paper just written and released about the relationship of the shrimp and their sponge. From this report it seems that it was an overestimate and it is not as important as we assumed. They're opportunistic feeders and the sponges probably aren't required because they're just eating the microbes and debris off the sponges. The problem I see is if they're specialized microbe wise. I haven't got the time to read the whole paper so I'm not sure...



garuf said:


> I want some, does the guy give any indication as to where and when they will be available?
> Maybe we should send some to ryan and see if he could breed some?


They are slowly becoming available, not cheap though. I heard around $60+ per but that was probably on the high side. 



Just some thoughts...
-Andrew

PS. If you like these, you should look at some of the reef shrimp:icon_eek:


----------



## gotcheaprice (Aug 29, 2007)

Lol, yeah, they look like reef shrimps, but I don't have the money to set up a reef tank


----------



## Martin (Jan 15, 2005)

the shrimp are available in germany atm.
the run at about €40 a piece. that's the price for the Cardinal shrimp.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Martin said:


> the shrimp are available in germany atm.
> the run at about €40 a piece. that's the price for the Cardinal shrimp.


Any details regarding the breeding of these guys?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

A Hill said:


> I just wrote a nice long reply and deleted it:icon_cool but the answer was more or less...
> 
> There was a paper just written and released about the relationship of the shrimp and their sponge. From this report it seems that it was an overestimate and it is not as important as we assumed. They're opportunistic feeders and the sponges probably aren't required because they're just eating the microbes and debris off the sponges. The problem I see is if they're specialized microbe wise. I haven't got the time to read the whole paper so I'm not sure...


I read that paper too. One of the authors is from Humboldt if I'm not mistaken. I know that the shrimp don't EAT the sponges themselves, but therein lies the problem of cultivating the microbes that normally grow on/in the sponges. There's no further information on the growth, development, and/or cultivation/breeding of the microbes themselves in the paper.


----------



## Martin (Jan 15, 2005)

As far as I can tell, several of them are breeding as pr. usual shrimp productivity.
I don't believe there's anything special about these shrimp in regards to breeding... apart from maybe the sponge lovers..
It's just new shrimp I think!


----------



## garuf (May 30, 2007)

when you say there available in Germany, Where from? I'm in the UK so shipping some shouldn't be much of a problem. 
Are they available online?


----------



## Martin (Jan 15, 2005)

Here's a few places..

http://garnelengrube.de/product_info.php/cPath/1/products_id/39?osCsid=ts4f3dq4skn58m0gidceioon67

http://www.wirbellosen-auktionshaus.de/browse/83086/caridina_arten.cfm


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

I have had conversations with the person who found them and brought them back. I was interested in purchasing them but I am waiting to see if they in fact breed true and also breed in freshwater. The prices were high and minimum purchase cost was high as well, but it would be worth it.

The main reason why I did not purchase them is because there are a lot of shrimp that have great coloration in the wild but their coloration is not the same when captive bred.

Once I get confirmation that they breed true I will purchase them and start breeding.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

^ keep us informed.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

epicfish said:


> ^ keep us informed.


Will do.

Thanks,
Ryan


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

wood said:


> Will do. If anyone is interested in doing a group order from the distributor send me a pm and I will keep a list.
> 
> Please note: The minimum purchase from this guy is over $2k. It is direct from the person who collected them.
> 
> ...


Please keep us informed.

I would put up say $100-$200 but thats like 3 shrimp, and then again I would need to set up a new tank etc... For me I can't see it working in the next 6 months 

If anyone finds more information please let us know! If they're easy to breed the price will be coming down soon somewhat I would imagine. From my personal opinion I would bet that a good deal of the colors will breed true, but certain ones probably won't maybe like 50-50?

As for the microbes... Thats one of the reasons I started looking into leaf litter and such for planted tanks and planted shrimp tanks.

-Andrew


----------



## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

Wow Ryan....

That’s a bit harsh. I agree with AHill on the price coming down. If the shrimp are easy to breed, and are prolific, the price will come down. It is the simple theory of supply and demand. Say 5 breeders get them in American and they breed as easy as a Neocaridina and many Caridina species we already have in the hobby, their supply will grow and the price will drop. Simple economics really. Take the Blue Pearl for example. Started out at over $20.00 a shrimp and is now much more affordable.

And if you take the figures from the links above and convert Euro to Dollar one example shrimp cost $56.27. So his calculations are not far off judging from the information on the website linked from this forum.

So, you may disagree with him, but some of his statements are not baseless.

My personal opinion is I will wait for the guys in Germany and the far east to work with them and find all the information they can before I spend hundreds of dollars on something that may, or may not, breed true or even survive long term.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Those websites are retail for europeans. 

As for the Blue Pearl Shrimp analogy- these shrimp are completely new and not related to a Neocaridina whatsoever. It is completely unknown whether they will breed like the rabbits Neocaridina do. It is also completely unknown how easy it will be to replicate their optimal breeding environment. If these were more neocaridinas then I would agree....


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Please don't tell me the one with the crazy white legs is the $225 one.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

epicfish said:


> Please don't tell me the one with the crazy white legs is the $225 one.


him:


----------



## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

Ryan,
I did not say they were Neocaridina in anyway... Not at all what I said. What I said is IF they breed easily, the price WILL come down. Do I know that they WILL breed easily? No. Is it possible? Yes. So it is not a baseless assumption, and that was the point. 

I dont think he, or I, ever said the price of these shrimp will drop, just that there is a chance and it is worth the wait to find out.


----------



## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

dam guys, ur taking this to far. cool down a bit man. everyone just relax. 

after all its just a few words


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

dr.tran said:


> dam guys, ur taking this to far. cool down a bit man. everyone just relax.
> 
> after all its just a few words


+1.

That's some common sense right there.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

epicfish said:


> dr.tran said:
> 
> 
> > dam guys, ur taking this to far. cool down a bit man. everyone just relax.
> ...


Breathe in..1..2..3.. Breath out.. 1..2..3..

In,
Out.

Thanks, I'm all cooled off now.
-Andrew

I'm in my cold basement so to be honest I've got a ski jacket and a heater at my feet :icon_lol: I was shivering earlier lol...


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

I apologize for going off the subject of these very cool newly discovered shrimp to anyone reading this thread. 
If anyone is interested in the group buy let me know. I definitely want to get a hold of these shrimp, they are very cool looking.


----------



## bgoodwins (May 3, 2007)

There is a certain trend going here. A specific person posts something, flames ensue, thread locks. HMMMMMMMMMM. And to keep things on topic, SWEET SHIMP. NOM NOM.


----------



## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

I started reading that exchange and my eyes glazed over. It's too early in the morning for me to deal with this. Anyone else feel free to jump in if you get to it before I do - tomorrow is a busy day for me.


----------



## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I heard enough and it better stay on-topic in here.


----------



## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

Someone lock this thread! It's overcooked, well done....FINISHED!


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

its back!


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

wood said:


> The main reason why I did not purchase them is because there are a lot of shrimp that have great coloration in the wild but their coloration is not the same when captive bred.


Ryan just read on the orriginal thread on shrimpnow.com that they've got them breeding and some of the imports are carrying eggs. The colors are still there:icon_eek: 

One of the guys keeping some babies posted a picture! 
-Andrew


----------



## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

I am very interested in the black/blue one. How much does that go for. Maybe soon I may put down a huge investment in these...

Anyway I am having a hard time finding information on caring for these shrimps. What is the special relationship between them and sponges?


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

dr.tran said:


> What is the special relationship between them and sponges?


So far from what I have read... none


----------



## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Ok well in that case,



epicfish said:


> Hm, interesting...very nice shrimp!
> 
> Too bad some are substrate-specific, ie: freshwater sponges.


Please explain! 

Any information on keeping these so far?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Sounds like even though their natural habitat includes sponges, rearing them on pellet food is acceptable.


----------



## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

so far from what i have read, they are not really hard to keep. the only issue i see is soft water with a slightly alkaline ph. usually with soft water you have lower ph's as well. from a seller in Europe: "_ the temperature will be at 26 to 28 degree celsius.The PH Range from 7,6 to 8,6. Best will be over 8!"_ maybe use one of ADG softenator systems, pretty pricey though.


----------



## loachlady5 (Dec 9, 2007)

Too bad I love my stupid shrimp eating fishies so much ! I like the one that looks black.


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

I just ordered some of these shrimp so I will keep all of you up to date on them. I should get them next week sometime,

Gabe.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

gabeszone247 said:


> I just ordered some of these shrimp so I will keep all of you up to date on them. I should get them next week sometime,
> 
> Gabe.


Nice Gabe! Haven't seen you around in a while.

What type(s) did you order?

-Andrew


----------



## Veneer (Jan 18, 2005)

The Mimbon web site has dozens of photos from the collecting expedition in Sulawesi during December 2007. Some great biotope images, featuring halfbeaks, gobies, crabs, snails, and aquatic plants as well as shrimp. According to my sources, many of these recently imported shrimp are new to science (as-yet undescribed).

If you're interested in learning more about the ecology and biogeography of these shrimp, visit this detailed blog entry. They're representatives of adaptive radiation by _Caridina_ in "two ancient (1-2 million years old) lake systems in the central highlands: Lake Poso and the five-lake Malili system." In many respects, these shrimp parallel cichlids in the Rift Lakes of Eastern Africa; an interesting discussion about anti-predatory arms races and sponge symbiosis took place at said link. Development of the young, by the way, takes place in freshwater. Larval stage, if I recall correctly, is absent or abbreviated. 

Recent development (including mining, I believe) and introduction of invasive species (tilapia and snakeheads) are already threatening these lake systems' ecologies. Be a conscientious consumer. 

Some videos of these shrimp in captivity:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=ghKhcGyL67w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=StstHtlCTJY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nm8f4S0d1JM


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Here is another video I just found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyo0yW9kpJQ&feature=user

And another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfcMfrYkw-A&feature=related

All I can say is WOW!

-Andrew


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

how's this for a business plan?...
We invest x amount of money to Wood/planet invert to buy & maintain these shrimps... He'll try to breed these guys since he has the tanks and equipments. When and if he has enough shrimps, he'll send out y amount of shrimps to his investors. And he'll have shrimps to sell to his customers.
You'd need a contract of course.

It'll be good for everybody. Wood would be the first american breeder if it's a success and we'll get cheaper prices eventually if he doesn't go crazy with his profit margin.

Just a thought.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

The group buy is closed unfortunately... Wish me and a couple others luck 

Of course if I am successful in breeding them I will put them on the store. I will not sell any captive bred specimens so it may be some time before any will go up for sale if I am even able to breed them successfully.

I will keep a VERY thorough journal for each species I promise. The macro lens will undoubtedly be working overtime too  Step aside crusta10.de, your pics will have a competitor  heheh Chris from crusta10 is actually a very nice guy and a great photographer obviously.... he plays in a rock band too...


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Dun dun dun! Who are the lucky few?


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

i assume you mean wild caught specimens wood....otherwise you wouldn't be selling much


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Yea that was a backwards brain goof. Meant wild caught. I don't want that poor lake to become pillaged (hopefully it doesnt).


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

Ya. The good thing is I would think it would be hard to catch all the shrimp in a lake....i have a hard enough time catching them in a single tank.


----------



## NeverEndingNinja (Jan 4, 2008)

Thats a good point, oblong. :icon_lol:


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

oblongshrimp said:


> Ya. The good thing is I would think it would be hard to catch all the shrimp in a lake....i have a hard enough time catching them in a single tank.


Depends what you've got.










-Andrew

:hihi: :hihi:


----------



## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

*ops*

ops my bad


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

that would have to be a very fine net to catch all those little guys.


----------



## NeverEndingNinja (Jan 4, 2008)

And not get snagged in all the rocks, roots, etc


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

oblongshrimp said:


> that would have to be a very fine net to catch all those little guys.


That it would. 



NeverEndingNinja said:


> And not get snagged in all the rocks, roots, etc


As long as it was strong enough it would take those things with it. Maybe SS mesh or Carbon fibers?

-Andrew


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

lol it would crush all the little shrimp though. They would get ground up against all the rocks and stuff.


----------



## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...planted-aquariums/47764-sulawesi-shrimps.html


----------



## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

jajajaja...insanity? the shrimp price is not if you compare them to a rare fish, animal. etc. 
Would I buy them at that price? That is something different...

I do like the comments of people when someone says 50 shrimp for $1500.
It is usually a fun thread for me to read...


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> jajajaja...insanity? the shrimp price is not if you compare them to a rare fish, animal. etc.
> Would I buy them at that price? That is something different...
> 
> I do like the comments of people when someone says 50 shrimp for $1500.
> It is usually a fun thread for me to read...


I agree the prices are lower if you can get them from the right source. Shipping is killer on the other hand.

The price is still lower than some CRS:icon_roll 


-Andrew


----------



## addo (Apr 20, 2007)

wood said:


> Yea that was a backwards brain goof. Meant wild caught. I don't want that poor lake to become pillaged (hopefully it doesnt).


In general its better for the environment to by wild caught than farmed/home bred animals.


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

Anyone looking to buy these shrimp need to know a few things. 
1. *Make sure the PH is 7.5-8+ Over 8 better*.
2. *A GH of 3-5 is needed*.
3. *Use Crushed coral gravel*.
4. *Water Temp 26c-28c*

I just bought some and a friend of mine in Germany gave me these tips.
I bought the red ones with the white front legs.


----------



## erijnal (Jun 19, 2006)

addo said:


> In general its better for the environment to by wild caught than farmed/home bred animals.


??? Isn't it better for the environment if we leave it alone as much as we can? L-046 plecos were overfished, and there was that (now debunked) scare over the CPDs. I'd imagine that shrimp would undergo the same consequences if we took solely from the wild. Then, worst case scenario, if they were at the bottom of the food chain, it's pretty much game over for the ecosystem.


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

gabeszone247 said:


> Anyone looking to buy these shrimp need to know a few things.
> 1. *Make sure the PH is 7.5-8+ Over 8 better*.
> 2. *A GH of 3-5 is needed*.
> 3. *Use Crushed coral gravel*.
> ...


I'm not chemist, but crushed coral raises kH, and raising kH raises gH, which in my experience, usually ends up way past 3-5. Is there a trick in coming up with such alkaline, yet soft water? That is a weird and difficult combo to reach, best I can tell.


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

Im just adding what a breeder in Germany told me. Im waiting for my GH tester to come in, and I can let you all know my range.


----------



## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

gabe, sounds like some salinity may also be a factor.
can you confirm if Salt is needed with the Germans?


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

I just emailed another friend in Germany to see if he made a mistake with the GH specs I got.


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

Ok this from a breeder in Germany. 

The best is to keep them at Ph over 8 with a temperatur of 28 degree celsius.

Thats a save way.... in order to get that high its ok to use GH raising stuff.... and using 50 % destilated Water and 50% normal Water ... so u reach a low Tds.... its kind of tricky...

But keep in mind: the 2 importent things are PH over 8 and Temp. over 26 degree Celsius and the shrimps are doing fine. I have them since 2 Month now and they are doing good.

The Matano is very warm high pH over 8 and low tds

P.S. This is copied and paste from an email. Sorry for the mispelled words.


----------



## addo (Apr 20, 2007)

erijnal said:


> ??? Isn't it better for the environment if we leave it alone as much as we can? L-046 plecos were overfished, and there was that (now debunked) scare over the CPDs. I'd imagine that shrimp would undergo the same consequences if we took solely from the wild. Then, worst case scenario, if they were at the bottom of the food chain, it's pretty much game over for the ecosystem.


I could explain but i think that would be off topic. Maybe we could start a new tread? I'm at work now so I don't have time right now.


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

so couldn't you just add baking soda to raise the KH but not the GH?


----------



## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

oblongshrimp said:


> so couldn't you just add baking soda to raise the KH but not the GH?


play with fire, you get burn


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

what exactly is that suppose to mean....isn't that the easiest way to raise KH but not GH?


----------



## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

My thoughts exactly!



milalic said:


> play with fire, you get burn


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

gabeszone247 said:


> Ok this from a breeder in Germany.
> 
> The best is to keep them at Ph over 8 with a temperatur of 28 degree celsius.
> 
> ...


Or you can use RODI water and put a bag of crushed coral into your filter. My RODI water reads around a pH of 7.1 with 0 dkH and 0 dgH, as it should. I just put 3 teaspoons of crushed coral in a media bag and put it into the tank next to a new sponge filter.

I will report pH and kH/gH readings. I don't expect the kH/gH to rise above 5 degrees, but I hope the pH will stabilize around ~8.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Edit: I was thinking USD:icon_roll That may be why there was some confusion...

I'm not sure who was interested in pricing. But here is the best I've found recently.



> Hi,
> im the guy to talk with if u like to get some Sulawesis.
> Here the price:
> Cardinalshrimp (red white/blue dots) 35 Euro
> ...


----------



## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

getting soft water with high ph is the main problem... my home tap is almost perfect with a GH~3-4, but ph is just a little too low at 7.4-7.5. gonna experiment with some crushed coral (well rinsed beach sand for me) in the filter and test. i really dont want to install a RO system, but if mixing ro with tap plus chips is the only route i may have to. i dont think using a full tank of coral as a substrate is good, it will raise the KH quite a bit.


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

baking soda.....raise KH without raising GH.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Did a new page with pics. Spoke with some of the guys in Germany that brought them over to get some info and Chris to get the pics. Will be posting more info in the coming days. There was too much unknown scattered all over the internet so I figured I would try to group it here....

http://www.planetinverts.com/shrimp_from_sulawesi.html


----------



## MiniMe (Jan 24, 2008)

hello,

i`m new here and i´m from germany.

if some interested at the red one with white spots then feel free and pm me 

regards
minime


----------



## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Just a word of caution to anyone caught up in this new shrimp frenzy;

when over seas people start showing up to sell you $50 Shrimp,
make sure they are well vetted on other forums before you deal.
I'd hate to see anyone taken advantage of by someone exploiting
this unique low information rare availability new shrimp commodity.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

yeah^^^
or just wait a year and you'll find these guys everywhere for a cheaper price. In the meantime, set up your dream shrimp tank in preparations for the sulawesi shrimps.


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

lol sometimes its nice to be the first one on the block them with


----------



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

spypet said:


> Just a word of caution to anyone caught up in this new shrimp frenzy;
> 
> when over seas people start showing up to sell you $50 Shrimp,
> make sure they are well vetted on other forums before you deal.
> ...


Yes, especially from Minime, Dr. Evil's evil little clone. 
Seriously though, watch your wallets on this stuff. Probably best to wait for a reputable US source.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

I have decided to offer a small amount of them on my store. Yes they are wild caught but they are 2 months into the hobby so captive bred is not possible to find. We all want them in order to captive breed so might as well get some of them here in the USA 

They are available for sale now but won't ship until Feb 25th. Free overnight shipping with USPS. Minimum $250 order for the Sulawesi. Live arrival guarantee of course. If they die you mail them back to me, seriously  Not getting scammed on these (have on the other shrimps I sell) I priced them much lower than I have seen anywhere else. 

Thanks,
Ryan


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

are you going to try to breed them, wood?


and wowza, the Harlequin shrimp is $300 a pop!
I would wait for more info on how to raise & breed these guys. Nothing worse than flushing $250 down the toilet, literally.


----------



## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Think these will be ok in a tank with some angel fish? 







Hehe I had to do it. Wish you much luck getting breeding colonies of these going wood. Some of them just look spectacular and I can only imagine what they look like in person.


----------



## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

buying these shrimp now, would be like buying version 1.00 of software.
everyone knows you are much better off waiting till version 2.01 :icon_roll 
that way someone else can suffer through all that trouble shooting,
not to mention that the price is always significantly lower...


----------



## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

wood said:


> I have decided to offer a small amount of them on my store. Yes they are wild caught but they are 2 months into the hobby so captive bred is not possible to find. We all want them in order to captive breed so might as well get some of them here in the USA
> 
> They are available for sale now but won't ship until Feb 25th. Free overnight shipping with USPS. Minimum $250 order for the Sulawesi. Live arrival guarantee of course. If they die you mail them back to me, seriously  Not getting scammed on these (have on the other shrimps I sell) I priced them much lower than I have seen anywhere else.
> 
> ...


so what you get for $250?


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

milalic said:


> so what you get for $250?


don't understand... huh?


----------



## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

He is asking what he can get for $250.00


----------



## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

Yup I guess it is like getting the early version of software (version 1.0.1) but someone has to give it a go so that others in the hobby can have valuable info on breeding (if possible) as well as what water parameters are best to keep them healthy. A pioneer if you will....

Success will undoubtabilly lead to lower prices and higher availability (version 2.0.1) as you said (liked that comparison)

Stay tuned....

Cheers, Bill


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

Ok I got my waters to what a friend of mine in Germany told me to keep these shrimp at. PH 8, KH 4, water temp 27c.

My tap water comes out of tap with a PH of 7.0

I added coral chips to my filter, and I aslo added crushed coral to my tank as substrate on top of my old soil that good for lowering the KH, GH.

Its been up and running for 2 weeks with the coral and holding strong. So yes you can have a high PH with a KH of 3-5. I add a picture of my tank.









My Temp dropped due to having the window open, but it peaks at 27c LOL:biggrin:


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Gabe, very nice looking tank 

Did a couple of articles on these shrimp and the expedition:
http://www.planetinverts.com/shrimp_from_sulawesi.html http://www.planetinverts.com/sulawesi_expedition.html


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

I cant wait to get these shrimp this week. Did you get yours yet wood? Its going to be a challenge, but im up for it. By the way those blue CRS from China did breed in my tanks, but its still too early to see what color they will be, but they look blue.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

No I have not gotten them yet. Order is massive and will be placed very soon.


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

Good luck, and please share any new information you learn on them, as I will.


Gabe.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Yea most definitely. Any good info you get please let us know 

Get that camera ready


----------



## charpark (Jan 29, 2008)

*Wow...I was in Sulawesi*

This thread caught my eye since the title said Sulawesi...I had to register immedediately so I could post a reply. This is unbelievable! 

I worked in Sulawesi right on one of these lakes for about 6 months doing consulting work. One of the previous posts mentions mining operations having a negative effect on the environment. I was actually working at this mine. It's a nickel mine specifically, and it does appear to have a negative effect on the environment. The hydroelectric dam where energy for the mine is produced blocks the lake up, and run-off from the mined earth (primarily red clay) all filters down into the lake. The company running the mine and the local people are also not environmentally conscious. The company also seeds rain clouds to cause rain for the hydroelectric dam. Please keep in mind I am excited about these shrimp too, I just want to note my first hand experience in Sulawesi. 

On a side note, it took me about 72 hours of straight travel to get to Sulawesi on a company airplane from the US east coast, so it is definitely not easy to get to. Also the northern part of this island has terrorist type activity and is very dangerous for non-locals. Kidnappings had occurred where I was working in the past and we had a special security force. I swam in this lake a few times and the water is very clear and blue. It's supposedly one of the deepest lakes in the world due to techtonic activity (hence the mine). There are also some species of fish and crabs that I had never witnessed before. If only I had known these shrimp were worth so much, I'd try to bring some back! There actually many undiscovered species in Sulawesi and Indonesia as a whole. 

The pictures of the environment are accurate. Mostly rocky bottom with some roots and small vegetation. I didn't notice huge plant overgrowth in the water. Just keep in mind the water from their natural habitat is VERY clean, so mimicking this for your shrimp would be ideal.

I look forward to seeing how these shrimp are captured and bred! Thanks for the post.


----------



## darkfalcon7 (May 18, 2006)

charpark said:


> Also the northern part of this island has terrorist type activity and is very dangerous for non-locals. Kidnappings had occurred where I was working in the past


Well...I suppose that rules out us putting together an Indiana Jones expedition to Sulawesi. :icon_conf Sounds like you had a fun, albeit somewhat treacherous trip there. Would you happen to have any photos of your trip so the rest of us can see what the environment looks like, outside of the photos from the collectors?


----------



## beviking (Aug 2, 2005)

Hmm, have to try peat water with crushed coral see what I get? 

Fantastic shrimp!

Anyone seen wood???? Must be on vacation?


----------



## charpark (Jan 29, 2008)

I'll put up some pics DarkFalcon. Apologies for not posting more frequently...a bit busy at work.


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

i know one guy that sells different shrimp species from sulawesi. i think the guy got it from a supplier at Manado, North Sulawesi. i will take some picture of them if i got the chance. i'm not sure it's the same one that we talked about here since they looks like brackish water shrimps.


----------



## beviking (Aug 2, 2005)

gabeszone247 said:


> I cant wait to get these shrimp this week. Did you get yours yet wood? Its going to be a challenge, but im up for it. By the way those blue CRS from China did breed in my tanks, but its still too early to see what color they will be, but they look blue.


Hey Gabe, didn't you get others from the same supplier? Super tigers or reds maybe??? I remember you really liked one of the others...just wondering if they bred/breed true?


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

I got the Red& blue tigers, and Blue bees. All the blue tigers died, but the reds, and the blue bees are breeding now.


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

and are they breeding true or is it to early to tell.


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

too early to tell plus they are in a 55gal planted tank. Hard to find the little guys with a glosso carpet.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

beviking said:


> Hmm, have to try peat water with crushed coral see what I get?
> 
> Fantastic shrimp!
> 
> Anyone seen wood???? Must be on vacation?


I am alive and in a new home. Just moved apartments. Thank god I had a bunch of my buddies to help move the tanks. It was a tedious task but so far everything looks ok. I should have taken pictures but oh well. Maybe I should write an article on it, moving apartments, specifically 10 tanks at once with live shrimp in them.


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

i was unable to take pictures tonight but i have some infos that they're from lake Towuti and Malili.

here are some infos on a Germany site :
http://www.crusta10.de/templates/index.php?page=1&showid=19&lang_id=1&katid=1


----------



## xt0rted (Aug 29, 2006)

I really like these shrimp and hope to have a tank with some at some point. But what I'd like just as much are some of the snails from there. They're so cool looking.


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

from what ryan was telling me though those snails were 10cms.....about 4 inches. Thats one HUGE snail.


----------



## xt0rted (Aug 29, 2006)

I've been wanting a bigger tank


----------



## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

Yeah the dead snail got was about 5cm, but looked cool.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Just curious why the invertebrates in sulawesi are so colorful like ones on the reefs.

Is the sulawesi lake really deep and dark/muddy? Or no real predator?
edit:
I left out another possibility, Or are they poisonous?


----------



## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

According to what I've read, they were originally marine invertabrates that slowly adapted to freshwater (similar to African Cichlids). They do look a lot like marine shrimp, don't they?


----------



## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Ooo, makes sense, they're secondary like rays and puffers. Some sharks have been spotted entering freshwater lakes (I wish I could remember where) and apparently they could be on their way to becoming secondary.
Secondary evolution would explain the sponges too right?
It kinda makes me want them even more, I wish they weren't so expencive.


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

sure they're expensive. one of the species sold here in java at $8. for information RCS is about 10 cents. looks like this lake Towuti is a very interesting place indeed


----------



## Martin (Jan 15, 2005)

I've just seen the little critters first hand i Germany.

NICE!

The fact that the shrimp (Cardinal Shrimp) have such deep red/purple colour and white legs etc. makes it a VERY interesting shrimp!
You can see them at work, picking through detritus, moss etc. for food. They're much more interesting to watch because you can see them moving their legs all the time.

Unfortunately I haven't got any photos atm. my lens was simply not good enough for such little critters!


----------



## Veneer (Jan 18, 2005)

pweifan said:


> According to what I've read, they were originally marine invertabrates that slowly adapted to freshwater (similar to African Cichlids).


Not more than any other _Caridina_, I believe. The cichlids in the African rift lakes are recently derived from riverine species, and I think it would be reasonable to assume the same for these shrimp (as well as the crabs, snails, and sponges living beside them). 



> Secondary evolution would explain the sponges too right?


They're more common than one might think (around 150 species worldwide). Here are some from Lake Malawi. The larvae of spongillaflies (Sisyridae, related to antlions and lacewings) are specialized to feed on sponge tissues; numerous species are found in North America.


----------



## charpark (Jan 29, 2008)

mistergreen said:


> Just curious why the invertebrates in sulawesi are so colorful like ones on the reefs.
> 
> Is the sulawesi lake really deep and dark/muddy? Or no real predator?
> edit:
> I left out another possibility, Or are they poisonous?


 
From the six months I spent at this lake in Sulawesi, I know the water isn't dark or muddy. In fact the water is crystal clear and very blue. Standing in a boat, you could see to the bottom in depths of approx. 15 feet. The water is similar in appearance to some freshwater lakes of blueish hue such as Lake Tahoe (in color, not necessarily of chemistry).

Likewise, the water in tributaries feeding into the river are mostly clear and slightly blueish. However, many of the of rivers in the area are also very muddy from red clay wash-off from the mines (see my previous post). 

I didn't notice any obvious large predators, although I am sure there are many. This lake is supposedly VERY deep because it sits where two techtonic plates are colliding inward. I don't know whether the snails are poisonous from personal experience, but I do know that there are many, many snails in the lake. Not necessarily of the fancy/exotic species, but I could see many snail shells leaving paths over the bottom of the lake. Most of the snails I saw were plain though, more like trumpet snails. 

Someone else mentioned the possibility that these species originated from a marine species then evolved into freshwater. This is highly possible since the lake does sit in the middle of an island and all of Indonesia is very active geologically. There are many volcanoes and plate movements in this area. It is certainly possible that these species were trapped and then evolved much like non-venomous, freshwater jellyfish. I believe the shark you mentioned is a bullshark which can live in freshwater, but didn't evolve in the same manner as these jellies. 

Apologies, I have pictures of the area and finally got internet back this weekend. I'll post pictures from my time there soon, although please don't expect some kind of underwater camera shots...I was there working as a consultant, not a photographer.


----------



## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I have a sneaky suspicion these shrimp do NOT have many natural predators.
why else should they have evolved with such flashy high contrast colors?
most likely it's to find each other for mating across such a large deep lake,
than for _attracting_ predators. this might also explain why there are such 
a wide variety, as breeding groups became isolated at difference parts of
this fragmented lake system. with too many predators, they would have
kept together for survival against predation by staying in high numbers.
lack of predators would also justify their slow fussy breeding cycle. why
have to multiply rapidly if your population is not suffering from predation?


----------



## pweifan (Nov 2, 2006)

I can't speak from any specific experience on the matter other than Biology class  , but I concur with spypet. It makes sense.


----------



## beviking (Aug 2, 2005)

Having never been there charpark, your pictures will be better than mine! 

"lack of predators would also justify their slow fussy breeding cycle. why
have to multiply rapidly if your population is not suffering from predation?"

OR, going with the once saltwater species theory...the breeding cycle was prolonged due to the changing water conditions - I'm thinking like some species live in fresh but only breed in brackish/salt water. Where at one time the population crashed and population growth was further slowed by the changing water conditions that created the crash, in part because the breeding cycle was being altered through evolutionary pathways. If the change was sudden enough, maybe the predators were not adaptable enough to survive so color was irrelevant? Just a thought...


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Did I miss something? Where did you read about their breeding cycle?


----------



## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

green, relax :icon_roll 
we are just deducing what may be,
in the absence of factual information.

according to this, these lakes may
not have many layers of predators;
http://www.worldlakes.org/lakedetails.asp?lakeid=8694
probably because they are so young.

If you are drolling to get these shrimp
anytime soon, you might need a bucket;
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...planted-aquariums/7689-sulawesian-shrimp.html
they've been know by hobbyist for 3 years,
yet few have been bred enough in captivity
to get spread around to fellow hobbyists yet.

we're lucky we have a few brave, experienced
shrimp breeders on these boards to share in this
expensive, hopefully not completely futile venture.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

oh, you guys were making an assumption... :/


----------



## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

mistergreen said:


> oh, you guys were making an assumption... :/


Assumptions may lead to the best theories, but of course you have the challenge all assumptions. Dont get upset, I bet with the experience that is making a go at this species we will have some articles out in several months on possible ways to care for them.


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

interesting i never saw that post before spypet.....hope i am not wasting my money lol.


----------



## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

oblong, I have no doubt you and many others will keep these shrimp alive.
it's bringing their next generation to adulthood - that may be a challenge.
I doubt early adopters invested hundreds of dollars on these shrimp, without
the hope of recouping some of their investment by reselling their offspring.
had a hobbyist succeeded over the years, he would have written about it.
had he failed, that would explain how silent the threads have been since. :icon_roll


----------



## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

I have seen pictures of the babies that some people have gotten but haven't heard anything as far as raising them to adulthood.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

oblongshrimp said:


> I have seen pictures of the babies that some people have gotten but haven't heard anything as far as raising them to adulthood.


Its because while importing them, they aren't digressing between what to take. They're just taking everything they can get. 

For example its illegal to take berried lobsters because when you take them that cuts out a huge amount of lobsters. If everyone took them the species would be extinct in a week or less. 

There are no rules being followed in terms of collecting aquarium shrimp that I've been able to find. They're taking EVERYTHING. This includes baby shrimp, and berried females. That is how you're seeing the pictures of them:icon_roll . 

With that being said, hopefully there is some success because if not, I can't see these shrimp having a good future.

-Andrew


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Over in England they sell lobster eggs as fish food.. I was astounded that they can do that.

It sounds like somebody out that have to find a strain of these shrimps that's not too picky and breed in an aquarium. Good luck.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

mistergreen said:


> Over in England they sell lobster eggs as fish food.. I was astounded that they can do that.
> 
> It sounds like somebody out that have to find a strain of these shrimps that's not too picky and breed in an aquarium. Good luck.


It must be something else, or farm raised or something. They're soooo picky in New England its amazing. Lobster fisherman carry shotguns with them and will shoot people going at their traps.

It'll be mostly luck sadly. They are neat shrimp especially because of where they're from.

-Andrew


----------



## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

There is mention of shrimp actually being born from berried females in captivity as opposed to being brought in as babies. There was however no mention as to if the shrimp were berried at capture or after in a tank...

I guess much more info will be available within a few short months as several forum members are sure to share their experiences good or bad.

Cheers, Bill


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

southerndesert said:


> There is mention of shrimp actually being born from berried females in captivity as opposed to being brought in as babies. There was however no mention as to if the shrimp were berried at capture or after in a tank...
> 
> I guess much more info will be available within a few short months as several forum members are sure to share their experiences good or bad.
> 
> Cheers, Bill


Over at shrimpnow some of the people who got them first said that they where importing berried females and some of those where having eggs hatch in their tanks. There was also reports of babies being imported as well. 

With all the money people are spending, I would be surprised if there isn't any lessons learned and shared

-Andrew

I think the posts about babies and berried females are as early as the second or first page http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/new-shrimps-sulawesi-2424.html


----------



## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

Howdy Andrew,

OK that is the thread I saw as well thanks, I asked about that i think and got no answer from the person that posted the photos...

Lesson learned or not at least soon many questions will be answered and knowledge gained...and....um...perhaps a dent in the old budget for a few folks, but what the heck someone needs to give it a go to get them into the hobby without emptying the lake  

I guess hope is that the sudden rush to import them is not related in anyway to the fact that they were hard to keep and breed making collection from the source for sale more profitable 

Non the less a challenge it will be for those willing to give it a try. 

Keeping my fingers crossed, Bill


----------



## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

Dang, those are some pretty shrimp!!!


----------



## charpark (Jan 29, 2008)

*Some Pictures around the Lake*

I've added some pictures when I was in Sulawesi. Please keep in mind I don't have any fancy underwater pictures as I was there was a consultant, not a National Geographic photographer. I wish I had more pictures of the water and the lake in closer detail, but hopefully these will give you a feel for the area around the lake.

Also please note, as I mentioned before. You will notice some of the local residents and the lack of environmental sensitivity.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Beautiful photos! 

I will be getting these shrimp very soon. I will try my best to raise them in captivity.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

southerndesert said:


> Howdy Andrew,
> 
> OK that is the thread I saw as well thanks, I asked about that i think and got no answer from the person that posted the photos...
> 
> Lesson learned or not at least soon many questions will be answered and knowledge gained...and....um...perhaps a dent in the old budget for a few folks, but what the heck someone needs to give it a go to get them into the hobby without emptying the lake


Chris was all the sudden all for giving info, then hasn't seemed to be actively posting it on other sites. It may be because he is too busy selling his imported pretty shrimp! I believe Sven posted (it _may_ have been a PM) about getting both berried and baby shrimp in the shrimp he got from the importer (Chris) 

Ohh I've got no problems with people getting them don't take this the wrong way. But I feel that this should be looked at from both sides of the coin. If they keep selling and the demand keeps up and the breeding isn't easy but keeping them alive isn't hard? You'll be seeing LOTS of imports. At $40+ USD a shrimp it is an insanely large profit even after potential loss. (Its around 200%-2000% One would assume, different people and groups do take their cut though. Even then the profit is well insane!) As long as they aren't just dieing constantly you'll see them always being imported. With that high a demand and no regulations specific to shrimp (which where once an annoyance for people getting the fish, now they're going to isolated lakes for the shrimp!) you may hear soon that they have been wiped out entirely in the next year, probably only in the critically endangered status at most. Depending on how their value is it may be financially feasible to dive for them sooner or later. 

On the other side if people crack it and they're easy to breed, the supply will still go up. Hopefully, most of the supply will be met with CB offspring. We know very little of this shrimp's life cycle, but it seems to be long and that usually means slow reproduction. Personally I won't get them until some others are captively breeding them, but thats my choice. (Also related to tank room etc)



southerndesert said:


> I guess hope is that the sudden rush to import them is not related in anyway to the fact that they were hard to keep and breed making collection from the source for sale more profitable
> 
> Non the less a challenge it will be for those willing to give it a try.
> 
> Keeping my fingers crossed, Bill


Ohh yeah, it should be a fun challenge for those who know what they're doing. For those that don't though it may be an expensive mistake . I'm looking forward to the day these will be readily captive bred like higher grade CRS, I could just imagine the hobby growing more, and then more and more discoveries like this are helped by our hobby. 

So just remember that we _could_ have another CPD here eventually. Not as fast because of where they are and the conditions of the depth of the habitat but its easy to throw some traps down and pull up a bunch the next day. 

-Andrew


----------



## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

Hello charpark,

Do you by chance have any info on year round average water temps etc? looks as though it does stay pretty warm by the landscape Nice pictures and thank you. We have been given some guidelines, but more info is always welcome!

Bill


----------



## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

Howdy Andrew,

I am one of those folks fairly new to the shrimp side of things, perhaps even unexperienced if you will, but so far have had nothing but success raising shrimp due to educating myself first and then trying new species... Ah but as you know disasters happen quick, but with proper care these little critters thrive in an aquarium.

Taking on a new shrimp at first was quick to make me a bundle of nerves every time they moved funny :icon_roll But over the months I have become acclimated to shrimp  and have become thoroughly addicted as well. This I see as a real challenge as well as just cool to do so I am one that has ordered two varieties of these shrimp.

The money? Heck we all gamble and if nothing else I'll have some cool shrimp to look at for a while 

So now we get to see both experienced shrimpers and a new guy or two give it a go...

Cheers, Bill


----------



## charpark (Jan 29, 2008)

Southern, I don't know the water temperature exactly. I can tell you however the air temperature was very tropical. If you locate Sulawesi on a map, you'll understand. The year-round temperature does not fluctuate greatly due to seasons. Rather, this area experiences rainy and non-rainy seasons.

The average temperature when I was there was approximately (from what I can remember) a high of 90-95F and overnight low of 75-80F. Occasionally it would get down to about 60F at night, but this was very uncommon. The water temperature is fairly consistent with what you would expect at this air temperature. I remember swimming in the water and it was much like swimming in any normal lake at that temperature. It was not as though the lake was fed by a glacial or varied temperature source.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

charpark said:


> Southern, I don't know the water temperature exactly. I can tell you however the air temperature was very tropical. If you locate Sulawesi on a map, you'll understand. The year-round temperature does not fluctuate greatly due to seasons. Rather, this area experiences rainy and non-rainy seasons.
> 
> The average temperature when I was there was approximately (from what I can remember) a high of 90-95F and overnight low of 75-80F. Occasionally it would get down to about 60F at night, but this was very uncommon. The water temperature is fairly consistent with what you would expect at this air temperature. I remember swimming in the water and it was much like swimming in any normal lake at that temperature. It was not as though the lake was fed by a glacial or varied temperature source.


With those temps being said... It sounds like they lit it in the 80s?!

-Andrew


----------



## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

The lakes are also VERY deep so the water temps would be VERY stable over all.


----------



## twicebirth (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm in Thailand I can export sulawesi shrimps to world wide. Also Cristal red shrimp.


----------



## George Morzinek (Mar 13, 2008)

Hello,

I have one tank with some sulavesi shrimps at the following water parameters. 

PH: 8,2 
Temp: 27°C 
KH: 6 
GH: 12 

The gestation time seems to be by 2 weeks. 

Can anybody confirm this ?


----------



## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

So you are saying that you are breeding these shrimp? You have that much success with them?


----------



## George Morzinek (Mar 13, 2008)

Dwarfpufferfish said:


> So you are saying that you are breeding these shrimp? You have that much success with them?


Hello, 

yes i breed them. it is really easy to breed the sulavesi shrimps, particulary the freshwater kardinal shrimp. As easy as to breed redbee or tiger shrimps.
What you need is only a good working filtration, a stable temperature und the right food. I feed them with shirakura powder food and a special algae food from a big manufacturer in germany. As the tank substrate I use a thin layer with normal sand. A root and a moss complete the tank content.

Waterchanges: 1 x week 30%. To keep the ph stable I don’t have to do anything. My tap water has already a ph at 8,2. I only add some kh powder after changing the water.


----------



## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

Why are you the only one reporting these shrimp to be easy to breed, and you are implying they like water with a high GH/KH (that is opposite of what everybody else is saying)?


----------



## jwarper (Apr 4, 2005)

George Morzinek said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have one tank with some sulavesi shrimps at the following water parameters.
> 
> ...



WOW!!! George look at all the shrimplets in that picture!!! Congratulations! This is really exciting news because there has been a lack of feedback from people keeping these shrimp. Thank you so much for giving us this info. Please, could you take more pictures of the entire tank? Also more details on your substrate and filtration if you don't mind  

Thank you again and please keep us updated!


----------



## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

i agree with jwarper, it is very exciting knowing that these can breed fairly easily. Very exciting and as jwarper said please keep us updated and some more information on the tank.


----------



## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

George Morzinek said:


> Hello,
> 
> yes i breed them. it is really easy to breed the sulavesi shrimps, particulary the freshwater kardinal shrimp. As easy as to breed redbee or tiger shrimps.
> What you need is only a good working filtration, a stable temperature und the right food. I feed them with shirakura powder food and a special algae food from a big manufacturer in germany. As the tank substrate I use a thin layer with normal sand. A root and a moss complete the tank content.
> ...


Wow, this is pretty exciting news. thanks for the information.
I'm really temped to order some =)

If they're as easy to breed as tiger or redbee shrimps then the prices will drop down shortly? maybe


Raymond


----------



## George Morzinek (Mar 13, 2008)

Hello,

I will take some pics this weekend and write a short article about my experiences. I hope it helps to show, that it is no longer necessary to catch them form the great outdoors. You can find them in our www.crustaforum.com


----------



## Mpham (Oct 5, 2007)

Hey George,

I finally saw some today in person. I can't believe how small they are. I was wondering if you can tell which ones a female or male?


----------



## ragn4rok (Mar 19, 2006)

Very nice info...  Thanks a lot George...


----------



## George Morzinek (Mar 13, 2008)

Hello,

my article is ready to read now. Please visit: Click


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

George Morzinek said:


> Hello,
> 
> my article is ready to read now. Please visit: Click


much thanks for that article!


----------



## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

Here are a couple photos of mine and I welcome more info George!




























Hard to get them to hold still for very long and they are as you said shy of any movement. Perhaps as the young grow in captivity they will lose some of this skittishness...

Cheers, Bill


----------



## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

are they hard to keep? thinking of getting some, whats you water parameters


----------



## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

I am keeping them in PH 8.2 and temp at 82 F. All are doing very well and active.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

I am keeping them in 80F and ph of 6.8-7.0. Using ADA Aquasoil.

They are also very active and are constantly picking the glass and substrate for food. They are really cool. The cardinals are not as shy as people have speculated. Mine are out and about all day picking and foraging.


----------



## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Wood, are you at a point where its viable to sell them? I'd like some but the cost as of yet is astronomical!


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

garuf said:


> Wood, are you at a point where its viable to sell them? I'd like some but the cost as of yet is astronomical!


I know they are expensive. They are wild caught which means that I have to buy them overseas and them resell. If I sold captive bred ones then it would be a different story. 

I am hoping to sell captive bred ones of my own within 2-4 months depending on many different variables obviously. 

I must say this: The price is high for these but to me it is worth it. Crystal Red Shrimp can go for this much as well but these shrimp do not compare. After seeing these in person I am hooked. Do not be surprised if one day in the distant future I am only selling these....


----------



## deacon69 (Nov 12, 2008)

They look exactly like blood red fire shrimps in the reef hobby. I wouldnt be suprised if they were the same species evolved.


----------



## Veneer (Jan 18, 2005)

deacon69 said:


> They look exactly like blood red fire shrimps in the reef hobby. I wouldnt be suprised if they were the same species evolved.


Yes, there are some striking outward similarities, but chalk it up to convergence. The Sulawesi _Caridina_ belong to the family Atyidae, so they're actually more closely related to vampire shrimp (_Atya gabonensis_) than to fire shrimp (family Hippolytidae).


----------



## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

Has there been genetic testing done? Because we chose to classify the shrimp into Atidae doesnt necessarily mean there is no relation to reef shrimps. Could there be a possiblity that these shrimp became isolated after being cut off from the sea due to geologic events? jellyfish in Bali come to mind.


----------

