# newbie here.. what substrate should I use?



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Regular gravel, or "pea" gravel, is not suitable for live plants since it doesn't provide any nutrients to the plants. Flourite and Eco-Complete have received mostly positive reviews on this forum. Personally, i like Flourite.

Flourite: found here
Eco-Complete: found here


----------



## blubunny2005 (Jun 18, 2009)

whats the difference between regular gravel and pea gravel? also, is Flourite more like a dirt, sand or mulch type of look or feel?


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Pea Gravel is just another term for the regular gravel.

Flourite is not a sand, nor a dirt, but it does have pretty small grains. It is made out of clay, instead of rock.


----------



## blubunny2005 (Jun 18, 2009)

can I do pea gravel and flourite together? or will that look weird? sorry- i am such a newbie!!


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Flourite regular feels and looks a lot like natural aquarium gravels. It is a little sharper on the edges, not polished. Here is a picture. Actually, the larger light colored pieces on top are regular aquarium gravel.










You can use regular gravel, but there are too main issues. It is inert (like Azfishkid said) and it is hard to plant in due to the size.


----------



## blubunny2005 (Jun 18, 2009)

what i was thinking of was black gravel with little bits of purple gravel scattered through it.. Does pea gravel or flourite come in black and can i still sprinkle a little purple over it here and there?


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> what i was thinking of was black gravel with little bits of purple gravel scattered through it.. Does pea gravel or flourite come in black and can i still sprinkle a little purple over it here and there?


Trust me - Purple and black may sound like a good combination right now, but I'm 99.9% sure you won't be happy with it in the future. AND if you're happy with it at first and get everything set up, it is a HUGE pain to take out and replace the gravel. If you're wanting to take the more natural-looking approach, then i would stick with just flourite or flourite with a natural colored gravel on top.

Basically, here's how i see it-
There's two types of freshwater aquariums: Ornamental (unnatural colored gravel, plastic plants, sunken pirate ship ornaments, etc) and planted (natural looking, live plants). In my opinion, mixing these two "types" of styles doesn't work. If you have purple gravel, and you put live plants in, they're most likely going to die due to lack of nutrients. If you put a plastic pirate ship in a planted tank, it ruins the natural look.

Some might disagree with me. :flick:


----------



## blubunny2005 (Jun 18, 2009)

thanks!! real quick.. i know its a slight subject change but do you think a black background or a blue background would look better?


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

IMO black. It's just about what you think looks best.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Gravel can be used as a substrate, as long as you choose the right size, it is inert (meaning it won't alter your water parameters, and there are no artificial dyes. You will need to look for 2-3 mm particle size (which can be difficult to find) and you will need to fertilize it with root tabs, laterite, or even half flourite. There is a flourite black available that you could use. I actually mixed my tank with half gravel, half flourite to save money.

Edit: I want to clarify the statement above. Laterite and Flourite is NOT a fertilizer, but does have mineral substances such as iron and gas the ability to hold onto excess fertilizers. You may chose to dose with fertilizers as well in the above scenarios. With some tanks, I do not dose at all and others, I dose heavily. It really depends on your expectations, choice of plants and such.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

ninja'd by AzFishKid. :hihi: I like both black and blue backgrounds, but I have noticed black is more becoming to the fish and plants.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> Gravel can be used as a substrate, as long as you choose the right size, it is inert (meaning it won't alter your water parameters, and there are no artificial dyes. You will need to look for 2-3 mm particle size (which can be difficult to find) and you will need to fertilize it with root tabs, laterite, or even half flourite. There is a flourite black available that you could use. I actually mixed my tank with half gravel, half flourite to save money.


These are good ideas as well. If you're truly attached to the black/purple idea, you could get black flourite and mix it with some purple pea gravel. That would work. :fish:


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> ninja'd by AzFishKid. I like both black and blue backgrounds, but I have noticed black is more becoming to the fish and plants.


----------



## blubunny2005 (Jun 18, 2009)

Lol!! Ninja Kitty! Do you guys have any pics of your tanks substrate so I can get an idea? That would be great! Thanks!


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

hahahahahehehehehe. You've been holding onto that one, haven't you. 

Blubunny, what size tank are you getting?


----------



## blubunny2005 (Jun 18, 2009)

I am currently in the middle of tearing down my 36 gal. corner reef tank (I am not that great with corals or saltwater I guess) and I have recently been turned on to the idea of a planted tank due to someone offering a trade with me for my corals, live rock and live sand. 

Anyways, as soon as I get rid of everything I am going to do a deep hot water sterilization clean to everything! I have a Flugal 305 canister as well as a 24 inch 2x65 Watt Current USA PowerCompact Orbit Fixture (total of 130 watts with both daylight 6400k/10000k and a blue actinic 420nm/460nm). I will be getting a pressurized CO2 set-up from this trade as well as several driftwood pieces, Seiryu Stone, Java Anubias, Java Moss, Flame Moss, Taiwan Moss, Hygro Compact, Riccia, Trident Fern, some kind of stem plant and possibly Bolbitis Fern. I know it sounds like a lot of moss but most of it is still about 2'' x 2''.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> hahahahahehehehehe. You've been holding onto that one, haven't you.


LOL maybe.. :wink:

Here's a picture of the substrate i have in my 85 gallon. The kind i have is called "ADA Amazonia II Aquasoil". Incase you didn't know, ADA (Aqua Design Amano) is basically the leading planted tank company that most people in the hobby look up to. They create beautiful aquascapes and offer some very nice, high-end equipment.

As you can see, it is VERY small. Put a ruler (centimeters) next to it for comparison.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Okay, I am going to link you to some of my posts.

This one is play sand, flourite, gravel mix.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/856736-post41.html

This is 1/2 gravel 1/2 flourite regular.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/857702-post293.html

This is all gravel.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/859678-post49.html


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> This is all gravel.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/859678-post49.html


So that's where the beta in your avatar comes from... :drool:


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

blubunny2005 said:


> I am currently in the middle of tearing down my 36 gal. corner reef tank (I am not that great with corals or saltwater I guess) and I have recently been turned on to the idea of a planted tank due to someone offering a trade with me for my corals, live rock and live sand.
> 
> Anyways, as soon as I get rid of everything I am going to do a deep hot water sterilization clean to everything! I have a Flugal 305 canister as well as a 24 inch 2x65 Watt Current USA PowerCompact Orbit Fixture (total of 130 watts with both daylight 6400k/10000k and a blue actinic 420nm/460nm). I will be getting a pressurized CO2 set-up from this trade as well as several driftwood pieces, Seiryu Stone, Java Anubias, Java Moss, Flame Moss, Taiwan Moss, Hygro Compact, Riccia, Trident Fern, some kind of stem plant and possibly Bolbitis Fern. I know it sounds like a lot of moss but most of it is still about 2'' x 2''.


Honestly, with those plants you could get by with regular gravel with a root tabs here and there since most of those won't be buried in the substrate. The lighting is great for a lot of plants, but I would consider taking out the actinic since it is said to cause algae. Feel free to use vinegar to help you clean the tank, it is great at getting rid of salt and is tank safe.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> So that's where the beta in your avatar comes from... :drool:


Yep, that's my pal George.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Yep, that's my pal George.


LOL George the betta. Nice. :thumbsup:


----------



## blubunny2005 (Jun 18, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> Honestly, with those plants you could get by with regular gravel with a root tabs here and there since most of those won't be buried in the substrate. The lighting is great for a lot of plants, but I would consider taking out the actinic since it is said to cause algae. Feel free to use vinegar to help you clean the tank, it is great at getting rid of salt and is tank safe.


Ok.. I took the Actinic out and replaced it with another daylight 6400k/10000k so now i have 2 in there.. now the light looks yellow and not a clearish white to blue tint. Is this ok? Also, now that I have 2 - daylight 6400k/10000k would that change the total watt output at all or is it still about 130 watts total?
Do you have any pics of what the root tabs look like?

***Added: It looks way too yellow for me. Will it hurt it too much if I put the actinic back in? Wont any algae eaters just go to town on the algae? I am going to have a pressure CO2 tank on it.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Here is a link: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/86437-actinics-plants.html

It will do a better job at explaining the lighting than I can.


----------



## sean117Ply (Jun 28, 2009)

I am doing what someone has suggested; I am going to have a layer of laterite at the bottom and the pool filter sand on top with a mesh screen separating the two. With the backgrounds I prefer none, It looks more open and airy. If I did go with a background I would go with black for a planted aquarium because it's a good contrast against the green plants, I think blue is more suited to a marine reef tank. 

I have a simple 29g planted tank with just small gravel much like sewingalot's substrate with root tabs situated around the base of the plants, I dose with excel about three times a week.


(reno 911 lol)


----------



## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Gravel can be used as a substrate, as long as you choose the right size, it is inert (meaning it won't alter your water parameters, and there are no artificial dyes. You will need to look for 2-3 mm particle size (which can be difficult to find) and you will need to fertilize it with root tabs, laterite, or even half flourite. There is a flourite black available that you could use. I actually mixed my tank with half gravel, half flourite to save money.



Flourite and laterite isn't a fert it's an inert substrate with trace iron just like eco, SMS/Turface, SAS, pool filter sand, etc.

Examples of ferts are the Excel product line, pfertz.com, and dry mix from places like aquariumfertilizer.com along with root tabs.

- Brad


----------



## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Honestly, with those plants you could get by with regular gravel with a root tabs here and there since most of those won't be buried in the substrate.



Root tabs only work for plants with roots (hence the name) for non-rooted plants you have to add fertz to the water column.

- Brad


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

bradac56 said:


> Root tabs only work for plants with roots (hence the name) for non-rooted plants you have to add fertz to the water column.
> 
> - Brad


But the root tabs will work for the few stems in the tank.


----------



## BobinCA (Jul 20, 2009)

*mixing different substrates*

I have read where you mix fluorite with gravel/sand.
If the granules of fluorite are larger than, say, PFS, wouldnt the fluorite eventually all wind up on top as the sand would sink to the bottom??

Bob


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

BobinCA said:


> I have read where you mix fluorite with gravel/sand.
> If the granules of fluorite are larger than, say, PFS, wouldnt the fluorite eventually all wind up on top as the sand would sink to the bottom??
> 
> Bob


Yes, the Flourite will very likely end up all on top of the sand. I just set up a riparium, with pool filter sand as the substrate, then I spilled some Flourite on top of the sand. I tried to scoop it out, but that didn't work because most of it was one granule thick. So, I just mixed it with the sand to get rid of the big color variation. Next day most of the Flourite is back on top.


----------



## SamH (Jul 17, 2009)

I use normal gravel or coarse sand in all three of my tanks with substrate and the plants do fine. The trick is to have a filter with a huge bio-load and let the fish waste build up in the substrate, then watch the plants go nuts.

Good luck


----------



## pieky22 (Oct 17, 2007)

dude...u call urself newbie and you are gonna be doing a co2 system? uhhh ive been in the tank world for 4 years now and im doing great without co2...it is a pain in the behind and can cause problems if its not set up right...you need to study alot if thats what you are planning...i suggest no actinic...6700k is the best lighting you can get for the plants...its the closest light spectrum to the sun (from what ive heard) so 6400k is perfect


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

BobinCA said:


> I have read where you mix fluorite with gravel/sand.
> If the granules of fluorite are larger than, say, PFS, wouldnt the fluorite eventually all wind up on top as the sand would sink to the bottom??
> 
> Bob


Hoppy is right. The sand went to the bottom of the flourite quickly, you can actually see this happening in the pictures in my post above. I don't recommend it. I am still trying to siphon it all out. :icon_roll


----------



## phaedrus (Jun 1, 2009)

I have the same problem with my tank. I just put fluorite in the other day and now all of my black sand went to the bottom. Should I take out the fluorite or take out the sand? I was thinking maybe I should shift some of my fluorite to one side of the tank (where most of the plants will be) and move the sand over to the other side, making a slope from fluorite to black sand.

Any recommendations?


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I was going to leave the sand alone until it kept clogging the filter everytime I replanted. However, if I were attached to the sand, I would probably have kept it as is. The Plants didn't seem to mind the difference, I just noticed the roots became finer when they reached the sand.

I personally think it would be your preference as whether or not to keep it as is.


----------

