# Crystal Red Shrimp Care and Breeding



## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...tal-red-shrimp-information-care-breeding.html This is a sticky already although your first post, compared to the one on the sticky, is much more detailed.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

You know, a lot of people would pass this over because they think it was just written by some random noob with 9 posts, but I have to say, this is really a great post (especially liking the Q&A) and should really become a sticky! You _clearly_ understand these shrimp more than most people. I am going to take into consideration several of these factors that you have brought to light and re-examine my CRS breeding setup. Thanks!


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## Gtdad2 (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks...informative and nicely done.


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## joon (Jul 17, 2004)

Zwei , Welcome to plantedtank.com 
since u located in PA 
sell me some CRS Please


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## Zwei (Dec 10, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> You know, a lot of people would pass this over because they think it was just written by some random noob with 9 posts, but I have to say, this is really a great post (especially liking the Q&A) and should really become a sticky! You _clearly_ understand these shrimp more than most people. I am going to take into consideration several of these factors that you have brought to light and re-examine my CRS breeding setup. Thanks!


Haha, I usually just lurk. I think of the internet as an archive of information rather than a communication medium. Something about letters and meeting people in person makes me warm and fuzzy inside.



joon said:


> Zwei , Welcome to plantedtank.com
> since u located in PA
> sell me some CRS Please


Ah, sorry to say. I don't have any for sale at the moment, just restart my tanks with a new batch of shrimp. I want to get quality up to JPRL standards before selling but who knows how long that will take. Once they start breeding and I have a sizable colony I'll offer them in the SnS section.


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## fusiongt (Nov 7, 2011)

> Active soils (ADA, Akadama, Fluval Shrimp Stratum, UP aqua soil, etc.)
> Pros: pH buffering, Good for growing plants
> Cons: Expensive, Need to be replaced every year or so


Need to be replaced every year or so... Is this true for ADA Aqua Soil? I'm pretty sure people have tanks with the same substrate 5+ years and their plants are still thriving.


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## Zwei (Dec 10, 2011)

fusiongt said:


> Need to be replaced every year or so... Is this true for ADA Aqua Soil? I'm pretty sure people have tanks with the same substrate 5+ years and their plants are still thriving.


You can keep it in the tank for 5+ year but the buffering capacity drops and the nutrients are depleted. Plants in that case grab their nutrients from the ferts dosed. 

However, the soil still holds a large amount of CEC capability and is capable of functioning as a substrate as long as it does not break down. In shrimp tanks the buffering capacity is the important part and I'm not sure there's a way to recharge that without replacing the soil. This loss can be slowed by using water that has pH close to the target that the soil buffers to but if you could get your hands on that, why use the soil?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

There are products to recharge soil now


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## Zwei (Dec 10, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> There are products to recharge soil now


That's good to know, do you happen to know if these products work for the buffering capacity of the soil and if so, the mechanism by which these products function? It would be a great help to know that I don't need to spend a lot of money on getting new substrate once the pH starts to rise.


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## fusiongt (Nov 7, 2011)

I can't imagine people able to replace their substrate when they have lots of ground covers or tons of plants. I wonder if a better way to help with the buffering capacity is putting in the new aqua soil directly into a try in your canister/filter and then just continue dosing ferts for the plants in the tank even though their substrate isn't as beneficial.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

There is filter media which buffers water now too. It's called powerhouse and it's a japanese product. It's a bit expensive, but it lasts up to 2 years, just like aquasoil.

The products to recharge soil are mosura rich water and some others that escape me right now.


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## anh (Jul 20, 2009)

i have a question, i keep my CRS in 7.3 ph water with around 7 gh and 7 kh they are house with Fire reds and new born norman lampeye fry's.

All the shrimps, including CRS are healthy, large and always carrying eggs, however i NEVER see any crs shrimplet??? my fire reds are constantly pumping out shrimp lets but never the CRS.

the tank been there for little less than a year, flow rate is high but the dense vegetation buffer out the excessive water movement. Water quality is good, nitrates are pretty low cause i hatch my fish eggs and raise my fry in the same tank.

what must be wrong? ph too high?


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## Zwei (Dec 10, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> There is filter media which buffers water now too. It's called powerhouse and it's a japanese product. It's a bit expensive, but it lasts up to 2 years, just like aquasoil.
> 
> The products to recharge soil are mosura rich water and some others that escape me right now.


I will look into it. Thanks for taking your time to post your findings.



anh said:


> i have a question, i keep my CRS in 7.3 ph water with around 7 gh and 7 kh they are house with Fire reds and new born norman lampeye fry's.
> 
> All the shrimps, including CRS are healthy, large and always carrying eggs, however i NEVER see any crs shrimplet??? my fire reds are constantly pumping out shrimp lets but never the CRS.
> 
> ...


I would not say that your pH is too high. A breeder I know keeps them in a pH of 7.6. A pH of no greater than 7 is preferred in most cases in case there is an ammonia spike of some sort. In any case, it is more important you keep a stable pH. A densely planted aquarium also helps because the plants quickly take up any ammonia.

I would take a look into your kH as CRS come from an environment with a naturally low kH, sometimes even dropping to 0 in heavy rains.

Edit: I forgot to add that bee shrimp breed at the beginning of the rainy season, kH builds up faster during the dry season. You may be able to induce spawning by lowering the kH using a distilled water "rainstorm". It may be wise to carefully watch that the TDS does not drop that quickly in that case.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

anh said:


> i have a question, i keep my CRS in 7.3 ph water with around 7 gh and 7 kh they are house with Fire reds and new born norman lampeye fry's.
> 
> All the shrimps, including CRS are healthy, large and always carrying eggs, however i NEVER see any crs shrimplet??? my fire reds are constantly pumping out shrimp lets but never the CRS.
> 
> ...


PH/KH/GH are all too high. You want ph-6.8 or less, kh=0-1, gh=4-5 for crs


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## Zwei (Dec 10, 2011)

Alright, here is the site for powerhouse filtration media. http://www.ph-clion.com/product/filtration/products/02.html

There are three products named with the red labels that lower pH.























The small sized media costs ￥12,000, medium ￥10,000 and the large ￥8,750 for 5L. At this cost it might be better to package active soil or another substrate and stuff it into the canister (this will most likely speed up break down of the substrate).



HolyAngel said:


> PH/KH/GH are all too high. You want ph-6.8 or less, kh=0-1, gh=4-5 for crs


Is there a reason for those parameters? I notice that they are commonly listed numbers with CRS but rarely have I seen an explanation for them. Could you enlighten me?


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

I've personally tried higher kh/gh/ph all seperately as well as together and all my CRS died. It took a couple weeks/months, but yeah, lost around 800 $ in shrimp because of it.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

$128 for a 5L bag of filter media?!! That's insanity!!


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Some people have success with a high pH. I've seen a few ppl's tanks with a 7.4-7.6 pH tank and had good breeding but not sure of their gh/kh and I imagine that may be more important.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

HolyAngel said:


> $128 for a 5L bag of filter media?!! That's insanity!!


It better last 5x as long as that much soil would. lol.


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## Zwei (Dec 10, 2011)

HolyAngel said:


> I've personally tried higher kh/gh/ph all seperately as well as together and all my CRS died. It took a couple weeks/months, but yeah, lost around 800 $ in shrimp because of it.


Ah, thanks for clarifying. I will probably test this with some of my culls (animal cruelty but we do it all the time in labs). And sorry about to hear about your loss.

Oh right, I made a mistake on the labels. The red ones are the ones that prevent pH from rising. Apparently they use a silica based substance called kaolinite to store and release H+ ions. Post above edited to reflect this change. Costs are the same though.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Excellent post Zwei, and welcome to TPT!


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## splur (Nov 26, 2011)

Great stuff, I'd like to hear more about the higher temperatures from others. I keep my tank and ambient 72 F, but if 75 F means more babies I'm all for that.



fusiongt said:


> Need to be replaced every year or so... Is this true for ADA Aqua Soil? I'm pretty sure people have tanks with the same substrate 5+ years and their plants are still thriving.


They use RO/DI remineralized water to keep their ADA substrate for so long. Some people see their substrate deterioate in a matter of months by using tap water which is really hard water, most people who use RO water have their substrate last a lot longer.


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

splur said:


> They use RO/DI remineralized water to keep their ADA substrate for so long. Some people see their substrate deterioate in a matter of months by using tap water which is really hard water, most people who use RO water have their substrate last a lot longer.



ACK! Seriously?? I guess I'll have to look into doing that for my 25 gallon then ... dang. An RO/DI system is looking even more like a savings now.


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

yes its true, I had this happen to me. Once the buffering capabilities wear off your parameters will creep up. I still use the same soil but have to use RO water.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Alyssa said:


> ACK! Seriously?? I guess I'll have to look into doing that for my 25 gallon then ... dang. An RO/DI system is looking even more like a savings now.


Yea, the reason the substrate acts for a longer time is because the substrate doesn't have to buffer as hard. Of course, if your tap comes out at the perfect pH then the substrate would work less hard than if you had RO water at a different pH.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

why cant we just use inert substrate and build the water our self?

I mean if you have crs its automatically required to have RO water.
So why bother having expensive soil if we can solve it by cheap RO water + cheap mineral supplement that last for long time.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

not all RO water is the same.. if you have RO thats already at a perfect ph then ya, you can use inert substrate and just remineralize, but my RO water anywhere in town has a ph of 8, kh/gh/tds=0 so i have to use a substrate that buffers it down.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

HolyAngel said:


> not all RO water is the same.. if you have RO thats already at a perfect ph then ya, you can use inert substrate and just remineralize, but my RO water anywhere in town has a ph of 8, kh/gh/tds=0 so i have to use a substrate that buffers it down.


I read and posted an article on another post that basically said the pH of water is dependent on lots of things and your RO water will have roughly the same pH as the source water, meaning your tap water. What does your normal tap water test at Holy?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> why cant we just use inert substrate and build the water our self?
> 
> I mean if you have crs its automatically required to have RO water.
> So why bother having expensive soil if we can solve it by cheap RO water + cheap mineral supplement that last for long time.





HolyAngel said:


> not all RO water is the same.. if you have RO thats already at a perfect ph then ya, you can use inert substrate and just remineralize, but my RO water anywhere in town has a ph of 8, kh/gh/tds=0 so i have to use a substrate that buffers it down.


What Holyangel said. All RO/DI water will come out with 0TDS but the pH will still depend on your tap pH. Of course you can use pH up/down but I doubt that would be stable as having substrate that buffers consistantly.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

tap water in town is 8-8.4, so ya, thats why


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## eklikewhoa (Aug 29, 2006)

Something that hasn't been thought about and through every discussion I've come across about the topic of substrate/pH is the slow acclimation process that goes on with the deterioration of param buffering substrates. 

Initially, yes the substrates provide the ideal or more than ideal params for CRS which most keep in but the length of time that it takes for the substrate to lose those abilities would also have given the CRS the time to super slowly acclimate and grow accustomed to the higher params. So eventually those CRS become hardier when it comes to water params. 

I am keeping CRS in Houston,Tx and have before as well but recently I've been keeping them with just treated tap water, inert substrate and they have been thriving greatly. Years back when I first tried them I had a hard time and yes I went the route of ADA aquasoil and RO/DI but eventually as the params crept up due to the soils weakening life became easier for me. 

Just adding a bit of my .02 worth.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

eklikewhoa said:


> Something that hasn't been thought about and through every discussion I've come across about the topic of substrate/pH is the slow acclimation process that goes on with the deterioration of param buffering substrates.
> 
> Initially, yes the substrates provide the ideal or more than ideal params for CRS which most keep in but the length of time that it takes for the substrate to lose those abilities would also have given the CRS the time to super slowly acclimate and grow accustomed to the higher params. So eventually those CRS become hardier when it comes to water params.
> 
> ...



There is a few people around me with tanks just using treated tap water, pH is 7.4-7.6 range and they have good breeding. It does probably take a long while for them to get used to breeding in those conditions but it possible. I also seen a link, have to find it again, of a breeder using 7.6pH tap water and had tanks full of crystals breeding.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

i add soil every so often as the parameters change..


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