# recommend substrate for crystal red shrimp



## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

ADA SOIL either AMAZONIA or AMAZONIA II... PERIOD!


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

PERIOD!... sorry...yeah all those are great for CRS. Any dark-colored plant substrate is fine too. The dark colors will make the shrimp's colors pop more, plus your plants will grow better too


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

One of the main reasons ADA AS is so frequently recommended for CRS is its tendency to make the water more acidic and lower the gH and kH. CRS typically need softer more acidic water to successfully breed.


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## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree...ADA Aquasoil Amazonia II. Makes keeping water parameters less of a hassle with CRS, Bee, and Tiger Shrimp.

Gravel is fine for shrimp that do not require more acidic softer water.

Cheers, Bill


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## Choco (Dec 8, 2007)

Do you guys with ADA AS substrate have to avoid large water change especially if you your tap water has high PH?

I.e. if your tap water is 7.6-7.8 PH (which is the PH most cities tap water have), and you do a 50% water change, it will probably jump the tank's PH from 6.8(Aquasoil PH?) to 7.3 instantly.

Or you find that CRS/RCS do fine with a .3-.5 swing in PH?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Choco said:


> 7.6-7.8 PH (which is the PH most cities tap water have)



Sounds like you live in Toronto and are surrounded by limestone-lined lakes. 
My tap water is 7.2.

Smaller more frequent water changes will avoid the temporary swings you are talking about. I have to do the same for my Tangs, as they are in aragonite w/pH of 8.5 or so. I stick to 30% weekly and fill _very_ slowly.


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## mr.sandman (Nov 7, 2006)

HOLLYWOOD said:


> ADA SOIL either AMAZONIA or AMAZONIA II... PERIOD!


Period I don't think so. There lots more of substrate like the ones from japan E.g Red Bee Sand and other that is dedicated to CRS.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm really starting to wonder- has anyone tried SMS/Turface with CRS? 

I THINK (not positive) it was in a Tom Barr post that said SMS also has a tendency to lower kH and gH...


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

lauraleellbp said:


> I'm really starting to wonder- has anyone tried SMS/Turface with CRS?
> 
> I THINK (not positive) it was in a Tom Barr post that said SMS also has a tendency to lower kH and gH...


I believe that SMS has EDTA in it. Not too sure. Which should help with water quality somewhat. 

ADA AS II isn't the only good stuff people. It is one of the best here though. I've had success with flora base in my 10g tank. Also as mentioned Red Bee sand and a jumble of other similar products in SE Asia are suppsoed to work well too.

Plain sand works fine depending on your water.

-Andrew


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## chollas (Mar 28, 2008)

Thank you everyone. 
since I have RO system, so plain black sand probably the best route.
will this sand be ok? has anyone have any experience with it?
http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=98360&zmam=90031077&zmas=12&zmac=62&zmap=98360


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Actually, Hollywood is right. While Aquasoil is not necessary, the question was what is best. I have eco in my shrimp tank, and SMS in my main tank. My main tank has RCS and minami, my shrimp tank has RCS and CRS.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

chollas said:


> Thank you everyone.
> since I have RO system, so plain black sand probably the best route.
> will this sand be ok? has anyone have any experience with it?
> http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=98360&zmam=90031077&zmas=12&zmac=62&zmap=98360


How can they call it "Natural Coated Sand" when it's coated in 100% Acrylic?? Should be fine IMO, just weird advertizing.

I'd go with Colorquartz over that stuff though- you have to buy in bulk but a 50lb bag will only run you $20-25 if you can find a local pool supply company and pick it up in person. www.3M.com is where you go to look for a local supplier. Main advantage besides being so cheap is that it shouldn't alter your water chemistry at all- so would be great to use with RO/DI water.


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## chollas (Mar 28, 2008)

lauraleellpb,
thanks for the colorquartz info, i think i can find them here in san diego.
so if i use inert substrate with ro water, and assuming that my ro is perfect at ph of 7.0, 0 kh, 0 gh. so if I increase my kh to 3 and gh 3 using baking soda and gh booster, this would also increase my ph to above 7.0. 
is it acceptable to have ph higher than 7.0 for crystal red shrimp? thank you.

i check the price for amazonia II, I was shock to find the price $36.00 for 9 liter! is this reasonable. where's is a good place to buy ada amazonia II, i'm asking so just in case i want to change my setup.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

I have mines in schultz aquatic soil. To me I think the water parameters are more important than the substrate. 

But good luck in ur search!


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## chollas (Mar 28, 2008)

dr.tran said:


> I have mines in schultz aquatic soil. To me I think the water parameters are more important than the substrate.
> 
> But good luck in ur search!


thanks dr tran. 
just curious, is this you? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6R0a3ttqNI


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

chollas said:


> i check the price for amazonia II, I was shock to find the price $36.00 for 9 liter! is this reasonable. where's is a good place to buy ada amazonia II, i'm asking so just in case i want to change my setup.


Heve you looked at the prices of CRS/CBS?

These shrimp are not cheap, if you are looking to cut corners this is not the shrimp you should be trying. Maybe you should look into RCS they could really care less what you water conditions are as long as your nitrates/nitrites/ammonia are good.

ADA AS is simply THE BEST fot these kinds of shrimp, if thats what you want then that is what you need to get.


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

bsmith782 said:


> Heve you looked at the prices of CRS/CBS?
> 
> These shrimp are not cheap, if you are looking to cut corners this is not the shrimp you should be trying. Maybe you should look into RCS they could really care less what you water conditions are as long as your nitrates/nitrites/ammonia are good.
> 
> ADA AS is simply THE BEST fot these kinds of shrimp, if thats what you want then that is what you need to get.


Agree, Can't take shortcuts with CRS or CBS. Though i have Eco Complete in my tank with CRS and CBS but i had to drip acclimate them. I do have a berried female in my tank but i hear with lower PH which ADA can do for you will help with the breeding for the shrimps.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

bsmith782 said:


> Heve you looked at the prices of CRS/CBS?


I was under the impression the OP had. But if not there is a reality check coming in the mail:icon_eek: (even though they have decreased...)



bsmith782 said:


> These shrimp are not cheap, if you are looking to cut corners this is not the shrimp you should be trying. Maybe you should look into RCS they could really care less what you water conditions are as long as your nitrates/nitrites/ammonia are good.


Now that this point is brought up. Have you had other shrimp before CRS? If not you shouldn't try something that is too hard, start out easy. 



bsmith782 said:


> ADA AS is simply THE BEST fot these kinds of shrimp, if thats what you want then that is what you need to get.


ADA AS is one of the best. It is not 100% required. I've got success with Flora base, and Milalic uses inert gravel. TheTeh was breeding them in hard water. The key is consistency. If you slowly acclimate them and use the RO water mentioned earlier and its always the same when you add it to the tank I don't believe you should have any problems. Granted its a LOT more work than just tossing in some substrate that buffers the Ph down, but if you don't want to spend the money go right ahead. 





phanizzle said:


> Agree, Can't take shortcuts with CRS or CBS.


Short cuts shouldn't be taken with anything aquarium related. It usually bites you in the end. Now doing things differently and Cheaper aren't necessarily short cuts. 



phanizzle said:


> Though i have Eco Complete in my tank with CRS and CBS but i had to drip acclimate them.


You should ALWAYS be drip acclimating invertebrates to when you receive new ones, even snails really. This shouldn't matter what type of tank they're going in or what shrimp they are. If you don't drip acclimate it is your choice.



phanizzle said:


> I do have a berried female in my tank but i hear with lower PH which ADA can do for you will help with the breeding for the shrimps.


If your shrimp are breeding they should continue. Once they're fully acclimated and comfortable look for new saddles/berried females about every two months 

-Andrew


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## LGHT (Aug 21, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> How can they call it "Natural Coated Sand" when it's coated in 100% Acrylic?? Should be fine IMO, just weird advertizing.
> 
> I'd go with Colorquartz over that stuff though- you have to buy in bulk but a 50lb bag will only run you $20-25 if you can find a local pool supply company and pick it up in person. www.3M.com is where you go to look for a local supplier. Main advantage besides being so cheap is that it shouldn't alter your water chemistry at all- so would be great to use with RO/DI water.



I've used colorquartz once in the past and it was great. The only problem was finding it. After calling over 10 pool supply places I finally found the color I needed at a pool installing place. I think they mix it with the plaster to give the pool a nice color.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

LGHT said:


> I've used colorquartz once in the past and it was great. The only problem was finding it. After calling over 10 pool supply places I finally found the color I needed at a pool installing place. I think they mix it with the plaster to give the pool a nice color.


Doesn't home depot carry it?

If not I'll have to call some pool places... 

-Andrew


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Not usually. If you go to the 3M website they are the ones who distribute it though. You can locate a local pool supply company online that way, then call them just to make sure. It worked for me! You want T grade; S grade is finer than sand...


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

lauraleellbp said:


> Not usually. If you go to the 3M website they are the ones who distribute it though. You can locate a local pool supply company online that way, then call them just to make sure. It worked for me! You want T grade; S grade is finer than sand...


Looks like I've found one. Hopefully they'll just sell me a bag. They're listed as..

* Applicator - Pools - New

They're practically right down the street from me which is good! Right by my lfs.

I'll call them tomorrow

Thanks,
-Andrew


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## LGHT (Aug 21, 2006)

A Hill said:


> Doesn't home depot carry it?
> 
> If not I'll have to call some pool places...
> 
> -Andrew


Nope. Glad you found a place close buy. The colors they make are very bright and amazing. Not sure what color your getting, but post some pics of the finished product. I wish I had some pics of the tank I had my bright blue sand in, but that was before digital cameras where even out.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

whats the difference between Ada soil amazonian I and II?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

CobraGuppy said:


> whats the difference between Ada soil amazonian I and II?


II is supposed to cloud less after initial installation, it is also supposed to have less of an ammonia spike once the water gets into it from your tank...

Both are false, it still clouds up (maybe to a lesser extent) but I have never used AS I.

I also killed all but 5 (out of >100) shrimp that I had in the tank, after a HUGE ammonia spike about 2-3 weeks after I first put it in.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I also read that the AS Amazonia II was developed for ppl with hard water, and is supposed to bring down the kH and gH more than the I?


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## chollas (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm thinking about getting the 40 gallon breed tank. And since it has the foot print of 36x18, that means it would take 10.59 liter to fill one inch thick. so one bag of 9 liter would give me a bit less than one inch, then I would cap that with another inch of T grade, black colorquartz. Will this work?

One thing I'm not sure about is whether or not one inch thick of Amazonia II is enough to buffer the PH?

I did check the price for CRS, I must agree that they are very expensive, that's why I want to start it out right the first time....uhh I hope 

I will start out with around 10 lowest grade and work my way up.

thanks again for all the great posts and advises.


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

I was wondering is there anyway I can swap the substrate (from eco to ADA) without setting up a new tank and cycling it then add my shrimps in the new tank. Then adding the ADA in my main 20gal long then cycling that and re-add the shrimps back in. any advice?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> I also read that the AS Amazonia II was developed for ppl with hard water, and is supposed to bring down the kH and gH more than the I?


As i understand it, it would be hard for this to be true since AS I has even more nutrients in it to promote a "black water" effect which in turn causes a more acidic environment where kh and gh are lowered as well. I had a pretty extensive chat with Jeff at ADG and he told me that he will no longer be ordering II, as it is LESS beneficial then AS I in the plant nutrition area. There have also been reports (from me included) of sub standard quality with the II, including breaking up of he substrate when it hits the water, or excissive cloudyness.



chollas said:


> I'm thinking about getting the 40 gallon breed tank. And since it has the foot print of 36x18, that means it would take 10.59 liter to fill one inch thick. so one bag of 9 liter would give me a bit less than one inch, then I would cap that with another inch of T grade, black colorquartz. Will this work?
> 
> One thing I'm not sure about is whether or not one inch thick of Amazonia II is enough to buffer the PH?
> 
> ...


I personally would not mix AS with anything, it is lighter and will work its way to the top over time rendering the sand useless, as it will not be capping anything. Just get 2 9L bags and call it a day. You will have no regrets IF YOU CYCLE IT PROPERLY. This entails setting up the tank for up to two months before adding any fauna, or untill the readings look safe. Plants as usual are welcome to the party at any time, as soon as you fill it up is the best however.

Just do it right the first time...... or else you ll be doing it right the second time, and be spending more money! :thumbsup: 





phanizzle said:


> I was wondering is there anyway I can swap the substrate (from eco to ADA) without setting up a new tank and cycling it then add my shrimps in the new tank. Then adding the ADA in my main 20gal long then cycling that and re-add the shrimps back in. any advice?



Is there anything in the first tank you want to set up? If there is just get a cooler fill it with the AS, fill with water, and change the water every few days untill your ammonia spike has subsided. When the coast is clear, scoop out your eco and replace with AS.


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

Well I have my main 20gallon Long and an extra 7 or 8 Gallon. I would like the ADA in my main and take out the eco. Not sure if all the ADA will be able to fit in the 7 gallon. The substrate will probably be almost half the tank? Do I need a filter for the ADA substrate to cycle it? Or can I just let it settle and do daily WC? I just dont want to buy parts for the other tank to set it up because I wont be working on that tank. I just want to swap the Eco in my 20gal with ADA

- I was planning on buying 2 bags of Amazonia II and place it in my 8 gallon tank without filtration (if possible) and use bio spira on it, wait until the parameters are good. Then use a container for all my shrimps with my current tank water. Add the Amazonia II in my tank then acclimate the new water slowly to the shrimps? Is that any good?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

> As i understand it, it would be hard for this to be true since AS I has even more nutrients in it to promote a "black water" effect which in turn causes a more acidic environment where kh and gh are lowered as well.


That doesn't make sense- Amazonian blackwater is virtually nutrient-free rainwater, stained with tannins.

Which version lowers hardness more than the other I can't say for sure, I'm just reporting something I read that may or may not be correct... It would however make more sense that II might have been created for more of a blackwater effect, since you report it has a lower nutrient content?

Either way, I've heard the same re: the quality issues with II.


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## jazzlvr123 (Jul 16, 2007)

I have always had best results with ADA aquasoil. way better than any other substrate ive tried when breeding CRS


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> That doesn't make sense- Amazonian blackwater is virtually nutrient-free rainwater, stained with tannins.
> 
> Which version lowers hardness more than the other I can't say for sure, I'm just reporting something I read that may or may not be correct... It would however make more sense that II might have been created for more of a blackwater effect, since you report it has a lower nutrient content?
> 
> Either way, I've heard the same re: the quality issues with II.


I guess I shoud have worded it differently. It has nutrients in it for the plant to take up and also creates a "blackwater" effect, releasing tannins in the tank further reducing the ph and hardness in a given tank.

Nutrient levels and black water effects are not one in the same. More then likely they are just 2 different benefits from using AS I.

It was advised to me that if I wanted clear water to use purigen in my filter.



phanizzle said:


> Well I have my main 20gallon Long and an extra 7 or 8 Gallon. I would like the ADA in my main and take out the eco. Not sure if all the ADA will be able to fit in the 7 gallon. The substrate will probably be almost half the tank? Do I need a filter for the ADA substrate to cycle it? Or can I just let it settle and do daily WC? I just dont want to buy parts for the other tank to set it up because I wont be working on that tank. I just want to swap the Eco in my 20gal with ADA
> 
> - I was planning on buying 2 bags of Amazonia II and place it in my 8 gallon tank without filtration (if possible) and use bio spira on it, wait until the parameters are good. Then use a container for all my shrimps with my current tank water. Add the Amazonia II in my tank then acclimate the new water slowly to the shrimps? Is that any good?


I would suggest some sort ot water movement in the tank where the AS is "curing". Whether this is by a filter, powerhead, air bubble want, or simply by you agitating it, it would deff bee good to get some movement in there.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

jazzlvr123 said:


> I have always had best results with ADA aquasoil. way better than any other substrate ive tried when breeding CRS


Nice Shot!!!


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

So this is my final plan

- I will use my 8 gal. Put some of the eco complete from my 20 gal into the 8 gal tank. Use my sponge filter that i have in my 20 gal thats been in there for about 2 weeks now as a sort of filter for my 8 gal w/ a rena 200 air pump. Fill the 8 gal with my 20 gal water and save the rest of the 20 gal. Take out the eco complete from my 20 gal and clean the tank then add in the amazonia substrate. Refill the tank with the old tank water and the rest with RO. Using the same filter Aquaclear 50 and adding bio spira. Wait about 1 week or so waiting the parameters are stable and not spikes occur. Acclimate my shrimps back in and hopefully a success? Any comments / advice please feel free!

My water is currently 7.4 - 7.5 will Amazonia II bring that down to atleast below 7? around 6.5-6.8? Thanks!


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

jazzlvr123 said:


> I have always had best results with ADA aquasoil. way better than any other substrate ive tried when breeding CRS


I wish my colony will turn out like that! Maybe when I get my final plans confirmed and I use Aquasoil I can accomplish that!


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

phanizzle said:


> So this is my final plan
> 
> - I will use my 8 gal. Put some of the eco complete from my 20 gal into the 8 gal tank. Use my sponge filter that i have in my 20 gal thats been in there for about 2 weeks now as a sort of filter for my 8 gal w/ a rena 200 air pump. Fill the 8 gal with my 20 gal water and save the rest of the 20 gal. Take out the eco complete from my 20 gal and clean the tank then add in the amazonia substrate. Refill the tank with the old tank water and the rest with RO. Using the same filter Aquaclear 50 and adding bio spira. Wait about 1 week or so waiting the parameters are stable and not spikes occur. Acclimate my shrimps back in and hopefully a success? Any comments / advice please feel free!
> 
> My water is currently 7.4 - 7.5 will Amazonia II bring that down to atleast below 7? around 6.5-6.8? Thanks!



sounds like agood plan, except for your timeframe. You need to wait AT LEAST 1 MONTH preferebly longer, before you add any shrimp.

That will probly be the single most important thing with respect to keeping you shrimp alive, introducing them into a stable environment.

Yes, your PH goals sound realistic.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

chollas said:


> thanks dr tran.
> just curious, is this you?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6R0a3ttqNI


 
lol. I can't tell u how many times my friends showed me that video. lol. 

People called me dr.tran when I was a kid because I always knew more science than anyone. Even the teacher. And now I am on my path to be a doctor so it can be real! Even though I still have girls that follow me asking for hot ... well u know from the video.


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

bsmith782 said:


> sounds like agood plan, except for your timeframe. You need to wait AT LEAST 1 MONTH preferebly longer, before you add any shrimp.
> 
> That will probly be the single most important thing with respect to keeping you shrimp alive, introducing them into a stable environment.
> 
> Yes, your PH goals sound realistic.



well I said about a week or so because I'm using Bio Spira. I used it on my 20gal the first time I had set it up and it took about 3 - 4 days for the parameters to be good.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

phanizzle said:


> well I said about a week or so because I'm using Bio Spira. I used it on my 20gal the first time I had set it up and it took about 3 - 4 days for the parameters to be good.


We are not talking about a normal set up here. The issue here is with the AS not the normal nitrogen cycle. Feel free to use the bio-spira but it will not speed up the cycle of the AS.

Wait at least one month after adding the AS and you SHOULD be good, there is no rushing this fact.


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

ok, but adding my old eco and water with the sponge filter in my 8 gal will be good for a month.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

phanizzle said:


> ok, but adding my old eco and water with the sponge filter in my 8 gal will be good for a month.


Minimum...

I dont think you understand whats happining here. The Ammonia leaches from the AS, regardless if you put it in a tank that has been established for 10 years with all the old media and substrate, it will still cause an ammonia spike that will most deff kill ant inverts in the tank.


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

Eh, Sorry for making this confusing the thing with my 8 gal has nothing to do with the Amazonia II. It's just something to put my shrimps in for now while I add the ADA to my main (20 gal). The 8 gal is just a tank thats been sitting around and I need a place to put my shrimps, so thats why I'm wondering if I can just use my Old Eco, water, sponge filter in the 8 gal to hold the shrimps in while I swap out the eco for ADA in my 20 gal. Just wondering if anything will happen to the 8 gal, it can still leach out ammonia? ( I'm using all the stuff from my 20 gal..nothing new. No ADA soil nothing just a place to add my shrimps in while my main cycles out with the ADA.)

Hope that cleared things up.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

phanizzle said:


> Eh, Sorry for making this confusing the thing with my 8 gal has nothing to do with the Amazonia II. It's just something to put my shrimps in for now while I add the ADA to my main (20 gal). The 8 gal is just a tank thats been sitting around and I need a place to put my shrimps, so thats why I'm wondering if I can just use my Old Eco, water, sponge filter in the 8 gal to hold the shrimps in while I swap out the eco for ADA in my 20 gal. Just wondering if anything will happen to the 8 gal, it can still leach out ammonia? ( I'm using all the stuff from my 20 gal..nothing new. No ADA soil nothing just a place to add my shrimps in while my main cycles out with the ADA.)
> 
> Hope that cleared things up.



IC

Yes, your all good to put your stuff in the 8g, just make sure that it is a very clean tank with no contaminants in it and your good. :icon_wink


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

so i put them all in a 8gallon. I have my AC50 running still on my 20gal with nothing in their but some of the old eco complete and the rocks. Ill let it settle their until i get my Amazonia II, I will place in an order tonight. How long do they usually take to deliver? and what carrier do they use? (ups,fedex,etc)
Thanks!
- Hope all goes well for me..


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Sounds good. ADG uses UPS Ground, it should take no longer then 5 days to get to you.


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

Thanks for you help bsmith, ill update if anything comes up, or when i add my new substrate.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Sounds great, good luck!!!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

bsmith782 said:


> We are not talking about a normal set up here. The issue here is with the AS not the normal nitrogen cycle. Feel free to use the bio-spira but it will not speed up the cycle of the AS.
> 
> Wait at least one month after adding the AS and you SHOULD be good, there is no rushing this fact.


I actually disagree slightly with this- the source of the ammonia may be different than in a "normal" nitrogen cycle (in this case it happens to be decomposing organics in the AS) but IMO adding N-fixing bacteria (BioSpira, established media, established filter, etc) should definitely help jump-start any cycle. Once sufficent N-bacteria are in place it will not matter that the AS is still leeching ammonia; it is being fixed into NitrAtes.

Now how MUCH difference it will make time-wise I really couldn't say, but IMO it should have SOME impact; you'll just have to keep testing the water parameters and see.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> I actually disagree slightly with this- the source of the ammonia may be different than in a "normal" nitrogen cycle (in this case it happens to be decomposing organics in the AS) but IMO adding N-fixing bacteria (BioSpira, established media, established filter, etc) should definitely help jump-start any cycle. Once sufficent N-bacteria are in place it will not matter that the AS is still leeching ammonia; it is being fixed into NitrAtes.
> 
> Now how MUCH difference it will make time-wise I really couldn't say, but IMO it should have SOME impact; you'll just have to keep testing the water parameters and see.


I just must be one who tries to err on the side of safety, espicially since we are talking about sensitive inverts, and also being one who put AS in my own shrimp tank that was completely established, filter media, water, even mulm from the old substrate, and still lost ~99% of my livestock when the AS decided to release its ammonia (which happened to be about 2-3 weeks, btw) because I didnt "cycle" my AS.

Have you ever used AS Laura?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I totally agree don't add livestock till the tank is established, but adding the N-bacteria is what were were discussing here. If the AS is functioning as the ammonia source instead of the livestock then at least in principle BioSpira should speed up the cycle.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> I totally agree don't add livestock till the tank is established, but adding the N-bacteria is what were were discussing here. If the AS is functioning as the ammonia source instead of the livestock then at least in principle BioSpira should speed up the cycle.


But in tne Nitrogen cycle the N fixing bacteria will not survive unless ther is N in the tank for them to feed on, in this case it would be pointless to add it untill the spike.


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## kvntran (Feb 16, 2008)

Hi all,

I'm considering Soilmaster Select charcoal for my crystal red shrimp tank. Anyone has any experience with this substrate? should I add peat? Thank you.

Kevin


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## phanizzle (Jun 28, 2007)

I was wondering if ADA Green Bacter is similar to Bio spira?


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## jazzlvr123 (Jul 16, 2007)

phanizzle said:


> I was wondering if ADA Green Bacter is similar to Bio spira?


don't use either just go to your local fish store and ask for some dirty water/ mulm from out of their filter then pour it in yours. this will work way better than bio spira or any other colony inducing agent.


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