# Hawaii Substrate?



## GmasterFJ (Apr 15, 2009)

To all my Hawaiians out there I have a question. We all know that shipping items to Hawaii is costly. I've been looking at substrates such as seachem's flourite which seems pretty good at sustaining plants. However, shipping it to Hawaii rings up $80-90 of shipping alone! Where do you buy your substrate from and what is the cost? Mahalo guys. Take is easy!


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm not from Hawaii but you could possibly trying the "Mineralized Top Soil" method. Heres a link. and under the substrate section of the forum there is a sticky regarding it.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-mineralized-soil-substrate-aaron-talbot.html


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

for flourite (any color) try petland kahala, or coral fish hawaii. i dont like flourite myself, and only use it for my tanks that need an inert substrate (the black variety). for ada stuff, go to aquascapes. if you really want cheap, go to wally mart and buy bags of oil dry in the automotive section, or for a little more 3m colorquartz from decking suppliers.

shipping is a bitch to this rock, but thats the part of the paradise tax.....


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Some of the volcanic sands from the local streams would work just fine.
The red clays also will work well if taken from a stream that's clean in place of soils(they are soils and already mineralized).

Also, most of the guava wood that's old and washed will work nicely for driftwood, as well as the ohia(native vs invasive species, you pick).

I saw plenty of excellent local sands, soils and wood and rock when I was there a few weeks ago, Kauai as well, most islands have everything you would ever need locally. 

There's no need to spend $ and import stuff all the way there.
Go to the north sides and collect upstream as far as you can for rock/wood.
Some slower downstream loams/soils in the larger streams will work well for soils.

Stay away from large population centers for collecting.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2008)

Tom, just between us forum members, is the BarrReport.com a proper corporation such that one can deduct the cost of the trip to Hawaii as research? ;-) 
Is there a specific number of postings that the IRS will accept as "proof". 
I'm also wondering if my kids can qualify as research assistants.

There are probably a lot of upstream areas left for the rest of us to research.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Our local aquatic plant club had a presentation several months ago about using this hobby to save on taxes. What you need to do is set up a business - selling your extra plants, setting up aquariums, etc., whatever you can actually make some profit on. Then you could make your "business" trip to Hawaii pay off - spend some of the time collecting, researching, etc. and write it off as an expense. The only problem is that you have to be a profitable business or there is nothing to write off, that's the hair in the ointment!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> There are probably a lot of upstream areas left for the rest of us to research.


My "boss" is from Oahu. So we go there to visit her family.

Been all over the habitats there and Kauai.
Maui and the big island are next on the list.
With 30-40ft waves on the northshores, not a good time to go snokeling however. Maybe when it's more mellow. Looked like CA coast during winter storms, just a lot warmer water, sharper reefs and rocks. I use to think CA waters where(and are extremely dangerous) when you get big surf, but the rocks are not nearly as bad and the fools here are smarter than the dimwits that try and surf there.

Best place in the USA to drown.
Hiker got killed when we where there also, fell 400ft trying get some stuff he lost. Common sense. Tourist often lack that. Evolution at work I figure.

It's hardly the safe place some think of it.

But offers a lot of nice aquatic plant materials and sediments, wood, rock, etc. Locals who get out and hike/enjoy nature tend to have good common sense however. 

They have mosses in a few streams growing well, most of the mosses and ferns on the _pali_ likely will do well, particularly the ones at the highest elevations of these two islands as well as Molokai and the western mountains on Maui.

Careful where you get the stuff, make sure you leave no trace and respect the land. State parks are kapu, private property etc. I think locals are fairly good there, but tourist could use a good "beating". This is true most places, Florida, CA etc, but city folks that rarely ever go out to the country tend to have some troubles here and there.

Just be smart and careful what you do and where the items are taken from.
We have road side piles of Manzanita, but one guy went to the state park and nabbed some stuff in full view of park ranger.

OMG.........

Oh well........



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

if you collect from streams, i used to till i got lazy (hauling 50 lbs of dirt or water soaked wood up a muddy stream or hill sucks big time). just make sure you have no open cuts or scrapes. our "hidden" danger is leptospirosis, since rats and other rodents pretty much infest all areas of the islands, their droppings do get washed into streams. its a rarity, but a few people catch it each year, and it can kill you if your immune system is already compromised or your body just doesnt react well and fight it off.

the hard woods like guava or koa make great long lasting dw, if you can find it already soaking in streams. just make sure to boil it really well, there are all kinds of nasty inverts, worms and bacteria in streams. i have used river sand and it does work, but depending on where you gather it, the grains are very fine, and tend to compact after time. our geology also doesnt lend itself to "soft" water loving species. most of the river rocks i have tried tended to raise water hardness, some to the point of inhibiting crypt growth. just try them in a test tank and see what happens.

just heed Tom's advice, and be respectfull of state property lines and private property.
have fun hiking, people pay big bucks to come here and do it, most of us locals dont take advantage of what we have.


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## wili_wili (Aug 4, 2010)

Hi, I'm new to the hobby, but I was just in the same boat as you (trying to order aquarium substrate online and have it shipped to HI to avoid paying $60 for a 20lb bag at the store). I kept finding cheap deals from various sellers, but when I went to check out and filled in my shipping address, they were going to charge me over $100 for shipping. Finally, I tried ordering from PetCo, and they offer free shipping on orders over $60. I ordered 4 20lb bags of Caribsea Eco-Complete substrate for $15.99 each, and chose to check out via Amazon Payments. Total order cost 60-something for 4 bags, with no shipping, so I got 4x as much for the price I would've paid at the pet store. I placed the order on Saturday and my order hasn't shipped yet (it's Tuesday now), so I'm a little worried that I will get an email from customer service saying that they can't honor the free shipping to Hawaii. Fingers crossed! Will let you know if it finally ships, and how long it takes to get here.
Will


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## wili_wili (Aug 4, 2010)

PS: Aquascapes in Aiea carries planted aquarium substrate, but it's quite a bit more expensive than online (but of course, you don't have to worry about shipping).


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## Ekaterina (Jul 5, 2010)

Hi Wili Wili, Aloha!
I lived in HI for over 10 years, miss it terribly, I know there is no Petco over there, but on line they have eco complete on sale for $15.99 20lb bags with free delivery for orders over $60.


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

if all you need is an inert substrate, go with the lapis lustre/lonestar blasting sand. it's the cheapest substrate you'll get here. 50lbs for less than $25; this is the same stuff some lfs repackage themselves and sell for more than twice the amount. call mr sandman, in the mapunapuna area. petland got rid of their flourite, haven't seen it in the past 4 - 6 months now; they also don't have florabase or azoo's new substrate anymore. kalihi pets had one 9l bag of amazonia II as of last sunday. haven't been to coral fish or aquascapes in a few months, so don't know what their inventory is like. 

i use the lapis over some soil from a nearby stream, more than a mile up from the ocean. it's already mineralized. hc and dwarf hg love the stuff.


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## wili_wili (Aug 4, 2010)

milesm - aquascapes has quite a few bags of aqua soil Amazonia (regular and powder), both in 9L size and smaller. 9L bags (about 21 lb) are about $60

Instead, I ordered four 20 lb bags of EcoComplete from PetCo for about $64, with free shipping. I ordered it on Saturday and just got notice today that it has shipped by FedEx and is expected to arrive by this Saturday, so they are honoring the "free shipping" promise, even on heavy items shipped to HI. It's definitely an economical option! I'm pretty sure Petco lost money on that transaction, since I imagine the cost to FedEx 80 lbs of substrate will far exceed their profit. We'll see if they continue to offer that deal to Hawaii.


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## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

thanks wili wili, but i'm more than satisfied by the soil i get from the nearby stream.


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