# I've been reading and reading and reading and I'm lost



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

Like the title says I am lost and in need of help. The more i read the more confused I get because everyone has a different set up. I will start with what I have. Tank has been up and running for well over a year. I try to do weekly water changes of 30% but sometime it is every two weeks.

Tank: 50 gallon breeder
Substrate: mix of gravel and flourite
Filter: Aquaclear 70 with carbon and bio-max, Also have a aqueon 30 w/o carbon or filterfloss (extra circulation)
Heating: Stealth pro 200W
Lighting 36" dula stip coralife T5 w/ 21W 6700k and 21W colormax on for 9hrs. Tank is covered by glass top.
Airation: I have a 3" disc bubbler and a 1" one (not 4got what it was called) they are powered by a whisper 20.
2 Pieces of driftwood about 6" by 3"
Fauna:
8 neon tetras
4 red stripe cories
3 corydoras adolphi
2 paletus longfin cories
1 albino longfin cory
1 cory schwartzi
2 congo tetras
2 mollies one black, one orange
2 ABN plecos babies
2 clown loaches
1 royal farlowella
1 lyretail sword
1 otto

Flora:
crypt wenditti wilting
crypt parva dying
annubias nana slowly suffering as well
java fern
frogbit almost dead too
java moss only plant doing well
and a couple of more species that I forgot the names of.

Water Conditions:
Temp 82
PH: 7.0
Amm: 0
Nitrate: 20ppm 
Nitrite: 0
KH 1dKH usually at 3dKH but I started dosing equilibrium..not sure why this is lower
GH: 6dKH usually at 3dKH but agian started dosing equilibrium with water changes which I did yesterday.


I seem to be having a staghorn problem that is getting worse as well as other plant deficiencies and other types of algae. There are some pics below.

I'm trying to figure out what I am lacking. I recently purchased the green fertilizer package of micros and macros from GLA. I have not started using it because I am not sure what method to use and what I am lacking. When I read about them (dosing methods) everyone who uses it seems to have CO2 or something different then I do. Any help will be greatly appreciated as to what I am doing wrong or what I can do to make my experience with a planted tank better. If you need anymore input on my tank please ask. I don't care if you are brutally honest with me.....it will not hurt my feelings. I need to get this right. I feel like I keep wasting my money on plants that always die on me.


----------



## AZMike (Apr 27, 2010)

Darth,

One thing you didn't mention was the source of your water.
Is it tap water or well water? Do you have a softener installed?

Thanks!


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I would start dosing immediately even without co2. Depending on how much work you want and what your goals are will help you determine how much to dose. This will definitely improve your plant health in general. How long have you had the crypts or have you moved them recently? It is possible they are going through a melting phase which is normal for this plant. Co2 is wonderful, but not necessary on lower tech tanks. Are you planning to stay without co2? I don't think your tank looks bad. I've personally dealt with much worse.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

AZMike....I use tap water and I do not have a softener.

Sewingalot.....I have had the crypts for over six months and have not moved them. The smaller one went thorough the melting phase. I don't think the larger one did....so could that be why it is wilting? I am planning on staying w/o co2. I don't mind dosing daily but it may not always be before the light goes on. I was thinking of trying the PPS-pro method but I do not have a scale. And when I was reading about that method most set ups had co2 so I becaume unsure if it would be good for me. Also I am concerned about my fish. I don't want to do anything to hurt or kill them. 

Should I make a bleach/water mix to try and rid the plants of the staghorn or just remove 75% of the water and try to do it by hand?

My goals as of now are to have healthy plants that grow. I do not mind having to trim them and I do not mind a weekly water change. Can I use the EI method w/o co2 being used or is the PPS-pro better suited for me and my fish especially if I go 2 weeks w/o the water change?

Also I forgot to mention that my Aquarium Pharmaceuticals testkit is not calibrated so I understand that they may not be right.


----------



## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Why not use Excel or something similar for CO2? I do this for all of my tanks and dose EI, and I haven't had an algae problem in a long while.

You do not need to dose the ferts before the light goes on. That is mainly recommended for Excel. You also do not need a scale as you can use measuring spoons.

With EI, it is wise to do 50% WC weekly. Since you may not do this, you can dose less ferts to balance it out.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

Wouldn't using excel be expensive for a 50 gallon tank? I was thinking of it but I understood it to be a costly option where a co2 system would be cheaper in the long run and I did want to stay low-tech.


----------



## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Darth Toro said:


> Wouldn't using excel be expensive for a 50 gallon tank? I was thinking of it but I understood it to be a costly option where a co2 system would be cheaper in the long run and I did want to stay low-tech.


Excel, yes. Metricide 14, not too expensive. 

Do note that Metricide is more potent so be careful if you do decide to use it.


----------



## StaleyDaBear (Apr 15, 2010)

for a 50 gallon . . . i dont know. metricide just might not cut it. It will be harder to keep it in balance then a good co2 system would. And especially if your t5's are HO. Look at AGA aquascaping contest, or a good 60% of the tanks featured from the users of this forum. They all have co2. It just makes so much easier. Even a DIY, coupled with Excel or metricide probably won't be enough for as large a volume a tank as this is. And you can get a system in place for less then $250. All you really need is the tank, a regulator, a needle valve and some ingenuity. DIY Bubble counters, patience, and time go a long way.


----------



## rhdedert (Aug 11, 2009)

Whoa slow down stop making this way to complicated... if the goal is to have a easy low tech tank there is no need for daily dosing or worrying about what time of day the ferts go in. Those plants are missing something and I bet NPK and a trace will fix it. Just small amounts weekly and if you forget no big deal. Start here >> http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2817-Non-CO2-methods

You also may have way to much light and will need to raise it up. High light will lead to quicker and greater nutrient deficiencies.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

I forgot to say that the lights are T5NO. Right now co2 system is out of the question. I've seen beautiful looking tanks on here with out the use of co2. I will try and strive for that for now.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

rhdedert...do you really think it is to much light? I thought having it less than 1wpg would be low and that I would not have to worry about raising it. I will read that thread tom. as I am going to sleep. Thank you for it. I just quickly glanced at it. Can I just mix the proper doses in a large cup and add it? When I was reading about the PPS-pro system it had mentioned mixing and then let it sit overnight before adding. I would be afraid of just adding the dry ferts directly to the tank for fear of my fish eating it before it broke down.


----------



## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

If you want to keep it low tech, you can always up the aeration too, I have all low tech tanks with bubble wands that run the length of the tank, this helps keep the level of CO2 in the tank at atmospheric levels which is, of course, not the same as adding CO2, but I do think it helps the plants because instead of the levels in the tank being less than those in the air, they are the same. 

The other thing I noticed is that most of the plants you said are wilting are heavy root feeders and I would suggest adding root tabs to your substrate right under each of heavy root feeders if you haven't already. Also, make sure that the rhizomes of the anubias and crypts are above the substrate. The rhizome is the thicker stem portion of the plant that the leaves grow out of. This part needs to get some light for the plant to do well.


----------



## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Darth Toro said:


> rhdedert...do you really think it is to much light? I thought having it less than 1wpg would be low and that I would not have to worry about raising it. I will read that thread tom. as I am going to sleep. Thank you for it. I just quickly glanced at it. Can I just mix the proper doses in a large cup and add it? When I was reading about the PPS-pro system it had mentioned mixing and then let it sit overnight before adding. I would be afraid of just adding the dry ferts directly to the tank for fear of my fish eating it before it broke down.


The WPG rule is based on T12 bulbs, not T5. Fixture distance weighs heavily on the intensity of the lighting (example of such is Diagram5 in this post: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/837592-post21.html), and while yours is directly on top of your tank, as you describe it, you do use a glass top. A glass top will block some of the light, especially if it is not clean. Using the thread posted by rhdedert, Barr posted that he recommends the use of 1-1.5 WPG with a non-CO2 method with a 50g tank - source: http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2817-Non-CO2-methods?p=15183#post15183

That is with a recommendation of having the fixture 6-10" above the tank on an open top tank (so I assume). What quality reflector your fixture has also matters. Perhaps lowering the period the light is on might help if you cannot raise your fixture.

For dosing dry ferts, some of us just dump them in the tank while others mix it in a container with tank water to dilute it a bit.

Substrate fertilizing, as suggested by Karackle, is a good idea as long as you don't disrupt the substrate often. You can make your own cheaply, too.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

If you want a quick fix for the algae on the plants, use this method: http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html You can also take the affected plants out and spray them with peroxide. However, it only gets rid of the algae, doesn't take care of the problem which I suspect stems from needing fertilizers of some sort.

This is a great basic article on fertilizing. http://gwapa.org/wordpress/articles/fertilizing-the-planted-aquarium/ After reading this, I chose to start out with PPS Pro. It did great for me. I felt comfortable with it and liked my results. However, you probably could get by with dosing only once a week or so. 

This is a link to an article Tom Barr wrote in dosing low tech tanks: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13623 It's pretty easy, no water changes required and it works well for many users.

In addition, as suggested by others, root tabs for your crypts will do wonders. At this point, I'd wait them out for a while. I really think once you start dosing, the melting will stop or at least slow down significantly. I hope this helps some.


----------



## houstonhobby (Dec 12, 2008)

If you have algae I think you need to lower the light (I think I read that somewhere). If you have plant deficiencies (and it looks like it) you need to add some ferts.

I am guessing you will have to do both.


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

the cupped leaves on the Crypt look like Ca deficiency. If the GH has been so low for a while, this could explain it. 

T-5 is very roughly double a T-12 as far as watts per gallon, so there is 21+21 = 42 x 2 = 84 watts equivalant over 50 gallons. Not too far off 1.5 wpg. 

I would change one thing at a time and see where it goes. 

1) Root tablets under all the plants that are rooted in the substrate. 
2) Dose per any recipe that you like, but if you use EI I would use the lower levels. I started with EI including 50% water changes weekly, then started adjusting things. For example, you probably do not need to dose KNO3 right away. The fish food is already supplying it. As the plants get to growing better, and the NO3 test shows they are using up more of the nitrogen, then start dosing KNO3. 
3) Add Excel, or generic version if this is something you want to do. When my tanks were at about 1 wpg it helped a bit, and they needed Excel, potassium and iron. The biggest help was increasing the light. When I reached 2+ wpg I started the EI method of fertilizing and everything took off.


----------



## fish h20 (May 5, 2009)

Before I make any suggestions I will tell you there are different methods of "low tech". I would say for any easy, low work tank, I would lose the bubbles, make sure you keep the water level high enough so the water out of your HOB filters slides in instead of dropping in. Feed fish a lot. Make sure you have MTS snails. Get rid of the carbon in your filters or just don't change it.

The Best Suggestion I can make is buy, rent, borrow, or check out at the library the book "ECOLOGY of the PLANTED AQUARIUM by Diana Walstad. It will help save a lot of money on plants and equipment. You will be able to understand what is going on in the tank.


----------



## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I agree with *fish* *h2o* that there are many different kinds of low tech tanks, however, I'm going to have to disagree about removing the bubbles. I have very low light, low tech, low maintenance tanks and I believe the use of bubble wands in the tank is a large part of the reason I have successful tanks. The bubbles provide a bit of extra CO2 from the air outside the tank. If you are not injecting CO2 into the tank, then bubble walls are NOT counter-productive, they are, in my experience, very helpful actually. And certainly they aren't harmful if you like the look :thumbsup: 

As for the filter media, if you don't have tannins (from DW) in your tank than you can go ahead and take out the charcoal, but if you do have tannins from your DW, charcoal is one of the most effective tannin removers. Many people say not to use it because it removes the nutrients from the water, but in my experience, the plants do not suffer for having the charcoal in the filter. After a month or so, it is no longer effective as a filtration medium, but it is a great surface for beneficial bacteria to grow on so it can be left in the filter. But again, if you don't have tannins, then there is no real need for the charcoal. :thumbsup:


----------



## fish h20 (May 5, 2009)

Karackle's tank works this way because of the very low light. The amount of CO2 in the air is very low. Very low light + very low CO2 + very low nutrients works well but you also get very slow growth and very limited plants you can use. I am not an expert but it is my understanding that the amount of CO2 in the air is very small but plants are more able to get CO2 from the air. If you have the same amount of CO2 in the water as in the air, it isn't the same to the plants. That would be way to simple. This is also the reason people inject CO2 in water to grow plants. I don't think people inject CO2 in the air for houseplants or their gardens. 

The method I am talking about uses CO2 produced by the breakdown of things like fish food and dead plant matter and also fish respiration. This can produce much higher CO2 than what is in the air. To have and keep higher levels of CO2 in your water than the air above it you need to limit surface agitation. With the higher CO2 you can have higher light and more nutrients and keep more types of plants.

Like I said earlier there are different kinds of low tech tanks. Everyone thinks their way is the only way. I would say find one method and make sure you follow it to the T to begin with and as you have more success you can try your own little mods to the method. I suggest the El Natural method from the book I suggested earlier. There is also The Tom Barr method which works well but it is a twist of the El Natural method so you need to understand the El Natural method before you can use the twist he talks of correctly.

I am not trying to be a know it all (because I don't). I am just telling you from what I have been through getting that book will help more than anything you get from a forum.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

Diana said:


> the cupped leaves on the Crypt look like Ca deficiency. If the GH has been so low for a while, this could explain it.
> 
> T-5 is very roughly double a T-12 as far as watts per gallon, so there is 21+21 = 42 x 2 = 84 watts equivalant over 50 gallons. Not too far off 1.5 wpg.
> 
> ...


 
I never heard about a T5NO light giving double. Thank you for that. I did forget to mention that I placed Flourish Tabs underneath all rooted plants about a month ago. I have not noticed a difference with just that.

I have been reading the articles that everyone suggested in my post. Thank you for pointing them out to me. I wanted to run by everyone what I am about to do as a dosing rountine and I would like your opinons back please, especially if something is to much or not enough.

Macro's
1/16 tsp KH2PO4 once a week
1/16 tsp K2SO4 once a week
I will leave out the KNO3 for now because of my nitrate levels. And I will be mixing these two together before adding it to my tank.

Micro's
1/2 tsp equilibrium once a week on a different day then macro's
1/16 tsp Plantex CSM+B same as above
I will also be mixing these two together before adding it to my tank.

I was planing on mixing the doses in two cups of water and then adding it to the tank. Is that ok? Or does anybody have a better suggestion. I am afraid to dry dose for fear my fish will eat it before it disolves. I have not started this yet. Today I just added the equilibrium to my tank.


Fish h20 when I reduced the airation in my tank I thought the staghorn got worse but that could have been my imagination. I will leave it for know. I do appreciate your opinion though

Karackle I still do have some tannis in the water so I will leave in the charcoal for now. I did want to eliminate it eventually.


----------



## TheVisionary78 (Mar 6, 2010)

The ultimate low tech tank would be. No hood. No light. light fish load, gravel, plants, a few maintence inverts. Bay window or greenhouse for light. And finally an aquarium heater the only thing actually plugged in. You are responsible for almost daily water changes to add the O2 and to remove toxic build ups.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

TheVisionary78 said:


> The ultimate low tech tank would be. No hood. No light. light fish load, gravel, plants, a few maintence inverts. Bay window or greenhouse for light. And finally an aquarium heater the only thing actually plugged in. You are responsible for almost daily water changes to add the O2 and to remove toxic build ups.


I'm not looking for the ultimate low-tech tank. And if I am correct if someone did your suggestion; if they used Diana Walstads' method wouldn't the water changes be unneccesary? 

I was hoping someone would comment on my dosing strategy.


----------



## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

The main part of Diana Walstad's method is using soil under the gravel- without it, no low tech, no fertz tank would last long. And you are correct, she doesn't do water changes very often at all. Sorry I can't help you with the dosing, I don't dose anything in my low tech tank.


----------



## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Darth Toro said:


> Like the title says I am lost and in need of help. The more i read the more confused I get because everyone has a different set up. I will start with what I have. Tank has been up and running for well over a year. I try to do weekly water changes of 30% but sometime it is every two weeks.
> 
> Tank: 50 gallon breeder
> Substrate: mix of gravel and flourite
> ...


 Perhaps temp is a bit warm for some of the plants? I should think all but the mollies and clown loaches would not object to cooler temps.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

roadmaster said:


> Perhaps temp is a bit warm for some of the plants? I should think all but the mollies and clown loaches would not object to cooler temps.


Not much I can do for now as far as lowering the temps. The tank is on the second floor and I do not have central air. It's real hot up here these past couple of days. Also I was told that the plecos like the temp around 82 as well. That info came from the breeder I bought them from.

Can anyone tell me if the above dosing strategy I will be trying is ok?:help:


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You said that the tank has been up and running over a year- is this algae outbreak a recent thing?

If so, what changed? Did you add/remove any plants or fish? Does the tank get more light (perhaps sunlight from a nearby window) that it used to?

Are the plants recent additions? If so, there's a good chance that the plants came in with algae already, and the algae is flourishing in your light vs the plants are struggling to get established due to less nutrients.

Personally, I'd lower the photoperiod (7-8 hrs/day) and I'd hit the tank with some Excel to knock back the algae. Then wait a few weeks and see if the plants perk back up or if you need to give them more nutrients.

What's your normal water change regimen? Are your 20ppm nitrates coming from dosing, or is that waste buildup (which wouldn't surprise me given your bioload...)?


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> You said that the tank has been up and running over a year- is this algae outbreak a recent thing?
> 
> If so, what changed? Did you add/remove any plants or fish? Does the tank get more light (perhaps sunlight from a nearby window) that it used to?
> 
> ...


Yes the staghorn is a recent thing. I added some crypt parva but they looked algae free to me. The fish have been the same I added some abn plecos but the staghorn was there first. The light is the same, I actually reduced the photoperiod from 12-10 then 10-9hrs.. I will reduce it again and try 8hrs. I have not started dosing anything except the equilibrium about two weeks ago. The other nutrients are what I have been asking about but nobody responds to that:icon_lol: My tap nitrate level is 10ppm but again my kit is not calibrated so I understand that can be wrong. The high nitrate level is probably from my bioload. I just want to see my plants look healthier and then they will hopefully start using more of the nitrates in the water. My crypt parva are almost all dead. I never mentioned that I had mariselia minuta that never took off as well. It does not help having all those cories and the clown loaches with them as they seed to dig them up.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The reason everyone keeps focusing on CO2/Excel is probably that carbon is what you're most likely to need more of with your tank setup rather than any other nutrients. Carbon is the nutrient plants need most for photosynthesis.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> The reason everyone keeps focusing on CO2/Excel is probably that carbon is what you're most likely to need more of with your tank setup rather than any other nutrients. Carbon is the nutrient plants need most for photosynthesis.


I want to try excel but I hear that it would be expensive to treat a 50g tank like mine. Is this because my light is to strong. Should I take one of the bulbs out and just run the 6700k T5NO? 

I want to first try dosing with the 8hr photoperiod and see how that works.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes, continually dosing Excel as a continual carbon source will get expensive on a big tank. 

But just dosing it right now as an algaecide to kill off the algae you've already got may be effective if you then also lower your light levels to keep it from growing back.


----------



## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Darth Toro said:


> I want to try excel but I hear that it would be expensive to treat a 50g tank like mine.


But as I stated previously, Metricide is not expensive.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

so that is an alternative. I thought it was specifically to destroy the algae outside of the tank. Ok will order that and use it. It is safe for fish and how do I dose that?


----------



## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Darth Toro said:


> so that is an alternative. I thought it was specifically to destroy the algae outside of the tank. Ok will order that and use it. It is safe for fish and how do I dose that?


I am still using up my Excel before using Metricide, but I have read several posts on this forum by members stating they found Metricide to work the same as Excel in terms of plant growth and reactions with fish.

You dose it the same way as Excel but use less Metricide since it is a 2.6% solution while Excel is ~1.5%. If Excel is indeed 1.5% then I think the recommended dosing of Metricide would be 2.9ml daily for 50g (Excel is 5ml). Of course my math could be wrong as I don't have my AC on and it is quite hot in here. :tongue:

And just like with Excel, be careful when using: avoid fumes getting into your eyes, avoid skin contact, avoid breathing in the fumes, etc.

Oh, and don't add the activator that it comes with.


----------



## TommyB (Jun 28, 2010)

This might be kinda late but I believe the best method to control algae is to have the tank started absolutely packed with plants that will out-compete the algae for nutrients. Because if you don't have enough plants from the start, algae will establish itself eventually and it multiplies more rapidly than plants. Then you will have plants that are nutrient & mineral deprived.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

I just bought a 500ml bottle of excel. I wanted to know if I have to do the initial dose of 25ml for my 50 gallon tank or can I just start dosing 5ml daily instead. I will order and try the Metricide after this runs out.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The "initial dose" is the one that's most effective against algae.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> The "initial dose" is the one that's most effective against algae.


That makes sense. Thank you. Just wanted to make sure that it needed to be done. In my case it definitely does. I will start today and post my results as soon as a see a change.


----------



## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

I wouldn't go so far as to say it needs to be done. Excel has a lifespan of <1 day, IIRC, so it's not like a high initial dose will last for long. Will it be more effective against algae than a smaller dose? Of course it will. High doses can also kill sensitive plants and fauna.

The high doses are recommended by Seachem since they are calculating excess debris in the water column from WC in to their equation, even though there really shouldn't be much more debris in the water after a WC than before. Truthfully, I am not sure why they require the large dose when Excel is first used.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2008)

In my experience Anubis are hardy so you probably don't have enough fish poop to keep everything fertilized. Start using some tabs and start dosing with what you have. If you think you made - or make - a mistake a water change or two will correct the situation. Essentially that is how EI dosing works. 

With glass tops, the light(s) need to be on the glass. 

In my opinion Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2 is safer than bleach for dipping plants. Either can take the color out of your best shirt if you splash it. 

If your fish are healthy and you aren't dosing medicine, take the carbon out of the AquaClear 70. You don't need it. 

Don't over think or over analyze this. After you learn more (experience most likely) you'll find you need to ignore or forget a lot of what you read. Have fun and accept that life may give you a zinger. I can't grow blyxa in any of my tanks but I currently have enough subwassertang to fill a gallon pickle jar. Oh, well.


----------



## mynameisjonah (Jan 22, 2008)

With your type of lighting chopping the photo period 1 hour less per day won't make any sort of significant impact. Bring it down to 6-7 hours, and start fertilizing. I believe you had a great source of light for your plants but they were starved due to a lack of nutrients. Liquid carbon will inevitably get pricey, but like Laura Lee mentioned it will definitely regulate your algae troubles, and since you are considered a low light low plant density set up, I bet you could get away with under dosing liquid carbon anyway. You wouldn't be blowing through bottles as quickly as you think.

Oh yea, and keep that bubble wand in storage. The only situation I could see you using the bubbles is if your plants consume a high enough level of available oxygen overnight that your fish get out competed and begin gasping in the early hours of the morning. If this is the case then throw your bubbles on a timer at night when the lights are off.


----------



## JWA (Feb 17, 2010)

Darth Toro said:


> Wouldn't using excel be expensive for a 50 gallon tank? I was thinking of it but I understood it to be a costly option where a co2 system would be cheaper in the long run and I did want to stay low-tech.


After all that we have in these tanks $wise the cost of Excel is a pretty minor outlay. Excel is wonderful for low tech tanks and worth every penny.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

The algae is under control with the staghorn all gone as far as I can see. I started dosing 5ml of excel a day and I do see some new growth. I aslo have the photo period down to 7hrs but am considering trying 6hrs. I increased my dry ferts to a pinch spoon instead of the smidgen across the board but haven't noticed a difference so I am going back to the smidgen once a week. I will consider the stopping the air. Only problem is the last time I tried the algae really took hold, but I was not dry dosing, using excel and I did not decrease the photo period. I just added anubias nana pettite a couple of days ago and already a couple of the leaves turning light green...yellow. Can anybody tell me why this is happening or what I can do? Here are my waters parameters tested today before I dry dosed again.
Temp. 79
Ph 7.2
GH 8 drops...143.2 or 8dKH
KH 1 drop ....17.9dKH
Nitrate 30ppm
Nitrite 0
Amm 0

Still can't seem to get the Nitrate under control. I even introduced duckweed to the tank. Also added Ceratopteris Thalictroides (water sprite) which does not seem to be doing well either a couple of big pieces are now floating at the top. Ive been trying to increase the plant load. I added three bunches of the water sprite, two Cryptocoryne wendtii, (one large one small...both melted right now and hoping they will grow back) and the anubias nana pettite ( A couple of nice pieces ). Still having problems and still reading daily.


----------



## Ekaterina (Jul 5, 2010)

These are the articles that I found very useful as I also struggle with my low tech tank:
http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/planted-aquarium/low-tech-planted-tank-guide/
http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/planted-aquarium/guide-low-tech-excel-planted-tank/


----------



## Hyzer (Mar 9, 2010)

> Still can't seem to get the Nitrate under control.


Waste(poop, food...)->Ammonia->Nitrite->Nitrate

The only ways to reduce nitrate levels are to do water changes or have enough plants in there to use it up. In your case, bust out the gravel vac.

Also, I read that you are using dry macros. You wouldn't still be dosing KNO3 would you?


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

Hyzer said:


> Also, I read that you are using dry macros. You wouldn't still be dosing KNO3 would you?


No I did stop dosing that. What happens when to many nutrients are in the water?


----------



## Hyzer (Mar 9, 2010)

For the most part, there is nothing wrong with providing excess nutrients. It is wasteful, but so is dumping a grip of water every week (unless you are using it to water your garden).

An exception would probably be high copper and nitrate levels. Copper can be harmful to fish and extremely harmful to inverts when overdosed. Nitrates, from what I understand, can only pose an immediate danger to fish when in the extremely high ppm range (well over 100), but can negatively impact the overall health of tank inhabitants at levels over 30.

If you have strong lighting, dosing large amounts of nutrients often is necessary, as they will be used up quickly by your plants. However, if you have lower intensity lighting, dosing the same amount would cause a potentially harmful buildup. This is in regards to micro ferts containing copper and macros like KNO3. It would take a lot of CSM+B to do harm.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Darth Toro said:


> if they used Diana Walstads' method wouldn't the water changes be unneccesary?


That depends on the quality of the water. My water is lousy for it has been treated with phosphates and pipes are old. I went 3 months without changing water and then BBA killed all of my plants. 

She uses UV light sterilizer.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

This is what I think would work:
KH2PO4......1 Tbs wkly
K2SO4........1 Tbs wkly
Equilibrium..1 Tbs
C excel.......5 ml daily

Or
KH2PO4......1 Tbs wkly
K2SO4........1 Tbs wkly
CSM+B.......2 Tsp wkly
Metricide....2ml daily


I use equilb. or CSM+B for balancing the minerals thus you over compensating using both and wasting money.

Could you post a full front view?


----------



## nicks7.1985 (Aug 11, 2010)

is 108 watts HO florescent enough for a 55 gallon tank


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

nicks7.1985 said:


> is 108 watts HO florescent enough for a 55 gallon tank


This has nothing to do with this post, thus considered hyjacking. You need to post your own thread to get answers. I assume you are new and won't do this again.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

nicks7.1985 said:


> is 108 watts HO florescent enough for a 55 gallon tank


This is the 3rd or 4th thread you've posted this same question in- I've already answered it in your own thread, so you need to stop hijacking other threads with the same question.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Darth Toro said:


> What happens when to many nutrients are in the water?


Nutrient imbalances tend to lead to algae issues. Depends on what's out of wack, though.

You sure you're no longer dosing nitrogen?

Are you still having algae issues on this tank? What's your photoperiod now, and are you still dosing Excel?


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

Algae is under control and I am still dosing 5ml of excel. My photo period is 7hrs and when I get a chance I try and move the light from the middle of the tank and bring it to the front half way through the period. It did look like it was growing for a short time but now it looks stunted again and my duckweed I introduced looks as if it is dying off (yellowish and light green leaves very small too). Which surprises me cause I thought duckweed was hardy. I did get greedy when I saw a spurt and dosed almost 10ml of excel daily with no ill effects on the fish but have since went back to 5ml. I was dosing seachem equilibrium however when it did have the spurt. Now I am using csm+b but today I mixed a tbs and a half in water and added it (EQ). I am also guilty lauralee of adding the KNO3. I am embarassed to say. I did it in very small amounts. I assumed since the plants were growing that it needed it. I am obviously wrong. 

I will be trying to post some recent pics in a bit. what is the max size again that I am allowed and how do I delete old pics in order to upload new ones?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It sounds to me like your plants are nutrient deficient, but if you post up some new pics that may help confirm or point in a different direction.

I personally host all my own pics at www.photobucket.com and then just link them over.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

Here are some pics.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Most of your plants look OK to me. Is that a sword or a crypt with all the holes in the leaves? Either way, it might just be acclimation die-off.

And if you've got a lot of surface turblence in this tank that would explain your duckweed die-off.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

I think you are refering to the Aponogeton ulvaceus. The one in the 2nd pic towards the bottom left? I bought it under that name from a LFS. The owner said it was hardy and would do well in my low tech set up. It was like that when I purchased it I have two small growths with out holes so far. I was thinking of chopping those with the holes but I wanted to make sure it grew some new leaves first.

As for surface turblence I did have two aeration devices going on either side of the tank but I have turned them off a couple of days ago to see if that helps all growth.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Plants look like they need nitrogen. Aprox 5m weekly at least.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Those plants are not nitrogen deficient if his nitrates are running 20-30ppm in a low tech setting.

You might be short on some other macros, but personally I think those plants are just still acclimating to your tank.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Those plants are not nitrogen deficient if his nitrates are running 20-30ppm in a low tech setting.
> personally I think those plants are just still acclimating to your tank.


Opps!!! So true. I was wrong. Excuse me my allergies must have been bothering when I made that comment.


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

How long can the acclimation process take? Those crypt parva have been in there for about three months and the string ones (forgot there name...) longer.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The Crypt parva look pretty good to me...


----------



## evanluke (Jun 7, 2009)

I would agree with lauraleelbp that your plants look pretty decent.

I use to run your light fixture (36" T-5NO Coralife Double Linear Strip) on a 26 gallon tank. It definitely was not too much light for that tank and I grew lots of different plants in there with moderate water column dosing and a daily dose of Excel as a supplement. There were also certain high light stems (e.g. Hygrophila Siamensis Cherry Leaf, Ludwigia Peruensis) that would not grow in my tank given this amount of light.

My point being is that seeing that you tank is twice as big as my 26, I would consider increasing your light, if you want to grow things other than moss, java fern, anubias, low-light crypts etc.

Cryptocoryne Parva is a very slow growing plant under low light. In fact many would argue that the plant requires medium to high light.

In general I think you tank is looking quite nice, I have found being able to grow some faster growing plants always helped me stabilize my tanks and keep them algae free.

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Evan


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

So how is the tank shaping up? Algae under control?


----------



## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

That tank was broken down. My wife and I had our first baby. A healthy boy! I needed the room in our bedroom for the baby. The algae was brought under control and most of the plants in there are in the 20g that I just posted up in the show and tell. The cories were transplanted to the 20g as well the rest of the fish were donated to my lfs.


----------

