# Vac or No Vac



## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

I was just curious, when doing a water change, do you vac your substrate or leave it alone?

I used to put the syphon down a little bit, but now I have so many plants. And I read somewhere you could lose nutrients. And then those little root tab balls would come up LOL.

I used to also get a little debris on the top, but now that I have Corys, that doesn't happen either.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I try to get out any drifts of debris that form and that is about it.


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## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

Gravel vacuuming disturbs roots. I only do it in areas where I know there are no roots, or if there are it won't hurt the plant if I disturb/damage them, but NEVER right next to a plant for about 3" or 4" circumference.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

FatherLandDescendant said:


> Gravel vacuuming disturbs roots. I only do it in areas where I know there are no roots, or if there are it won't hurt the plant if I disturb/damage them, but NEVER right next to a plant for about 3" or 4" circumference.


I never knew this. I always get right in there and suck up a bit of my eco-complete within my dense sections. I find if I let them get stagnant I get algae issues pretty quick in those areas.

At the bare minimum I use a turkey baster or just my hand to kick up the sludge on there and vac it out.

Bottom line for me is that if crap sits around I get algae eventually


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## Fujiija (Feb 24, 2012)

I have 5 plecos in my 75 gal planted tank which I think is the underlying cause of the high level of debris in my tank (between the sinking pellets and poop generated). I really feel I have no choice but to weekly vacuum all debris sitting on the substrate surface however I try not to disturb the eco-complete too much beyond that. I guess the curse of putting messy fish and plants in the same tank. I am constantly fighting BBA at a low level - probably from the high organics - and continual surface vacuuming is about the only thing I can do (I already have two canister filters and a powerhead). I can see all the debris inside my eco-complete substrate (looking at the sides of the tank and under the tank) but read that is natural for that substrate grain size so I just let it be.


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## sushant (Mar 3, 2007)

Accumulated dirt results in algae breakout. Vacuuming also keeps the gravel look better as it removes the degraded/powdered ADA particles which may cause clouding.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

I do none, my tank is now 7 months old. Some debris and algae in the front right side on the substrate.

Eventually could do some on that spot.

Corydoras, loaches, or other bottom dwellers may help by stirring debris that will eventually go in the filter, and they will help with decomposition, oxygenation near substrate.

Michel.


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## PhilipS (Jan 9, 2014)

Just remove the debris with a 1/4" or 3/8" hose and replace filtered water with 0-5 TDS.

Clean the glass so the plants out-compete the alga for nutrients.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I haven't vacc'd my 180 in over a year.
My wc take place in basement from the sump filter(semi auto).
With proper circulation little if any debris should settle on bottom.
My tank has dual mega overflows so I don't even have hard draw from low in water column.
If I saw crap sitting anywhere in my tank I would remove it however and reconsider my feeding habbits,or circulation.


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## doggo (Jun 14, 2014)

I have lots of BNs, plus 2 medusas, so I siphon or vacuum some tanks every day and the others at least every other day. I deep vacuum the clear gravel areas in the front and occasionally also around the plants. Seven months on with 2 oldest tanks, no problems, plants are fine, as are fish. And the deep gravel vacuuming makes the baby BNs ecstatic as they find all sorts of goodies to eat.


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## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

klibs said:


> I never knew this. I always get right in there and suck up a bit of my eco-complete within my dense sections. I find if I let them get stagnant I get algae issues pretty quick in those areas.
> 
> At the bare minimum I use a turkey baster or just my hand to kick up the sludge on there and vac it out.
> 
> Bottom line for me is that if crap sits around I get algae eventually


8 months and no problems yet, at lest not on the sub. What little algae I do have is a light issue and only on older stem plant leaves nearer the surface:confused1:


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## DBridges (Sep 22, 2009)

I sort of "wave" the python about 2" above the substrate. The resulting water movement stirs up anything on the bottom, which then gets sucked up. I figure anything too deep in the gravel to get sucked up ends up being plant food.

David


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## Kntry (Dec 26, 2013)

My 75 is 10 months old and I have never vacuumed it. I don't have any algae. 

I used to have a brownish/gray dusting on top of the Black Diamond cap but I don't have that any more either. 

I have a lot of Assassin Snails, 2 Kuli Loaches and 5 SAE's. No other catfish. 

It would be impossible for me to vac with all the plants.


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## jimbo662 (Aug 4, 2013)

Coralbandit said:


> I haven't vacc'd my 180 in over a year.
> My wc take place in basement from the sump filter(semi auto).
> With proper circulation little if any debris should settle on bottom.
> My tank has dual mega overflows so I don't even have hard draw from low in water column.
> If I saw crap sitting anywhere in my tank I would remove it however and reconsider my feeding habbits,or circulation.


What do you use for circulation? I'm about to order a 175g peninsula style tank and had planned to use two MP40's (one on each side of the overflow box). My thought was that with them about 1/4 of the way up from the bottom it would help keep debris / detritus from settling and push it back up to the overflow.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

jimbo662 said:


> What do you use for circulation? I'm about to order a 175g peninsula style tank and had planned to use two MP40's (one on each side of the overflow box). My thought was that with them about 1/4 of the way up from the bottom it would help keep debris / detritus from settling and push it back up to the overflow.


 My sub is sand and gravel decades old.
My return pump from sump in basement is a jeboa 12,000 dc piped to 1 1/2" hard pvc,split in cabinet under tank to 3/4 ID(max for returns in pre drilled aprox. 1,300 gph?) .Then each return is split into 2. 1 points straight down in the corner and other out on surface(to guarantee syphon brake).Standard aqueon mega overflow with dual /dual lockline returns.
In the tank 4 hydors.Not biggest but probably second biggest koralias.
2 under the return in each corner running 24/7
And 2 inbetween the overflows that run with lighting cycle.
Fish on bottom....ALL!
[email protected] year old clown loaches,12 @ 3-5 year old Denison barbs,and several orange laser cories and some of the scardest MTS that hide all day!
My sump,the mechanical drawers do fill up with crap!
It is where we want it ,or at least where it is easiest for me to dispose of!


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## jimbo662 (Aug 4, 2013)

I may try splitting the returns like you did. Probably will need a bigger return pump. Currently have a mag 18.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I was running a mag 24 before switching to dc.
A huge difference in noise and I think I increased flow, while conservering electricity.
Actually cost like $10 less then the danner mag 24 .


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## jimbo662 (Aug 4, 2013)

...and I had assumed dc pumps were all external. I'll check this one out.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I use this one from my basement in my sump to the tank in livingroom
Amazon.com : Jebao DC-12000 DC Return Pump for Aquarium : Pet Supplies


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## peggysplanted (Jan 31, 2015)

I simply take water out of the tank with a hose every week, but vacuum the substrate once a month. I have plant substrates like eco-complete, flourite sand and fluval statum: works well for me.


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## aquarium hippy (Feb 7, 2013)

I never vacuum the substrate if I notice debris during the next water change I will stir the water from about 2" above the substrate and get it that way. With enough circulation and cory cats I only do this about 3 times a year.


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## PhilipS (Jan 9, 2014)

I had this conversation with my local ADA dealer this weekend. 

Tests have been done on Amazonia 3 years old and there is still potential to grow plants. Now, taking that with a grain of salt and tequila, the soil must last that long when you fertilize and use root tabs.

He also mentioned that vacuuming the top 1" isn't bad because he has to do it in his shop tanks for aesthetics and his "selling" plants look great.

I'll be doing just that when I re-scape soon. Then I'll add some Amazonia/Africana mix to cover the old soil before I replant.


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## Mark Allred (May 3, 2013)

I have had my 125 set up for 3 years now. Tank was heavily planted and using EcoComplete for substrate. Never vacuumed, can't really vac Eco. 
I filtered water at a rate of 1200 gph minimum. Never saw detritus or mulm. A couple of weeks ago I pulled a large Amazon Swordplant out of the tank. In 4 days I lost 5 of my adult Angelfish to pathogens! Meanwhile I had given the Swordplant to a friend, in 4 days he lost a whole tank of Angelfish. This weekend I removed the remaining fish, nuked them in a QT tank with Potassium Permanganate. I removed all the Eco, scrubbed the tank down, and nuked it and my wet/dry overnight. Nuked all the plants Starting back up with a gravel that can breathe better,and that can be vacuumed.


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## bmeate (Feb 9, 2014)

Fujiija said:


> I have 5 plecos in my 75 gal planted tank which I think is the underlying cause of the high level of debris in my tank (between the sinking pellets and poop generated).


what kind of plecos? how many sinking pellets do you give them?


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## TheAnswerIs42 (Jul 10, 2014)

I do not vac my substrate ever. In my 12g I have ADA Africana powder and it gets stirred up easily, so I leave it alone; and I my 30g it is dirted with PFS cap, again I don't want to disturb the dirt. In both tanks I have a enough bottom feeders to keep any areas from accumulating too much waste. I worry about stirring up the substrate too much and causing ammonia explosions.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

With any sort of carpet and dense plantings, plus complex spiderwood branches for hardscape, vacuuming is nearly impossible. I have maybe 4 square inches of exposed gravel that can directly access. (for now, mwah-ha-ha!) I sort of "swirl" the siphon hose above the substrate and suck out whatever is loose enough to flow up.

So far so good.


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## Malakian (Aug 23, 2014)

I have a hose connected to my tap when I refill. I direct the hose around the tank to kick up mulm and debris, then let my fx6 handle it. If I haven't done it in awhile and there is a lot of build up, I clean the mechanical filtration and do another wc. If I do it at ever WC, there is hardly any.


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## PhilipS (Jan 9, 2014)

jimbo662 said:


> I may try splitting the returns like you did. Probably will need a bigger return pump. Currently have a mag 18.


Use a Y-fitting that's the next size up.

3/8" filter hose step up to 1/2" Y fitting. Less turbulence.

Easy to heat and soften tubing in near boiling water. Mug of water in microwave for 2 minutes. Don't microwave the tubing.


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