# spratocaster's Fluval Edge Iwagumi *2-10-12 HC Problems*



## mahko (Dec 10, 2011)

I like it. Been thinking about tweaking my Edge for a while, so I'm interested to see how this turns out.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Not bad. Move the rock on the right to the left (just to the right of the middle rock), then point it to the right. The tank should be left-heavy, and then plant some low plants, like staurogyne repens, on the right.

Also, of you want to, take a razor blade and run around the top of the tank, and take to top glass panel off. A few other members have done that here. Should make maintainence easier.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> Not bad. Move the rock on the right to the left (just to the right of the middle rock), then point it to the right. The tank should be left-heavy, and then plant some low plants, like staurogyne repens, on the right.
> 
> Also, of you want to, take a razor blade and run around the top of the tank, and take to top glass panel off. A few other members have done that here. Should make maintainence easier.


So something more like this:



















Cutting the top off is not an option as I would like to keep all the equipment hidden.


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## raven_wilde (Jul 12, 2006)

Whatever you do with your layout be mindful of the shadows the stones cast... it will be very difficult to get anything to grow in them the way the lighting is set up in this tank.

Are you planning on doing a dry start with your HC?
Take a look at this: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/127888-fluval-edge-cree-led-build-4-a.html


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks for the link. That is a sweet LED setup. I do plan to dry start the HC. 

I did notice the big rock casts a long shadow. I guess my options are to either burry the rock deeper to minimize the shadow or to plant something like an annubias or a crypt there.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

cant wait!


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## Davesofthunder (Nov 12, 2011)

This looks like it will be pretty cool when you get it up and running. Looking forward to seeing it!


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

So the new MR16 sockets came in the mail today. They have little metal retainer clips that help hold the bulbs in. Unfortunately the clips make them a little too big to fit snuggly in the little socket recess. So currently only once screw is holding them in place. This doesn't really effect the function as there is no way those sockets could come out even if there were no screws. I need to find a longer screws for the sockt screw that goes all the way through the arm.

Anyway here is a shot of the modded light bar.




















The MR16 bulbs are cool white 230 lumen bulbs from [Ebay Link Removed] The light bars are natural white rigid light bars from superbrightleds.com.

And a couple shots of the hardscape with the lights. I moved things around a bit to reduce the shadows. How the only real shadow is in the far back right corner.



















I still need to smooth out the substrate and fill in around the rocks, but hopefully I can start planting tomorrow.


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## mahko (Dec 10, 2011)

Looks like you have things ready to go. Any updates?


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## 600rr (Nov 18, 2011)

looks good! Just from reading your post I thought I wrote it because it's sounds so eerily similar to my setup. I must be in the twilight zone...whoa...


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

Sorry I haven't updated in a couple days. I am currently trying to get ahold of some HC that isn't half dead. My LFS only had 1 mat of it and it was in rough shape. They gave it to me free of charge and I am trying to revive it in another tank. Hopefully I can get out to another LFS this weekend and get some HC that is ready to plant. I would order it but December in the northeast is a no go for mail order.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

600rr said:


> looks good! Just from reading your post I thought I wrote it because it's sounds so eerily similar to my setup. I must be in the twilight zone...whoa...


Do you have a thread for your tank? I would love to take a look.


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## 600rr (Nov 18, 2011)

spratocaster said:


> Do you have a thread for your tank? I would love to take a look.


No I haven't put up a thread for my tank yet. But I did get my tank for about $80, using AS new amazonia, modified MR16 sockets, LED strips from superbrightleds.com. Currenty DSM HC.

I have a couple pics in the official edge thread on pages 81 and 82.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

So it's been a while since I updated this thread. I finally got the plants I needed locally and planted the tank. I used 2 pots of HC and 2/3 of a pot of dwarf hair grass. I am using the dry start methid, so now the waiting begins. I snapped of the freshly planted tank.



















I will try to post updates throughout the next couple weeks while the plants are filling in. In the meantime I would like to ask for some advice on carbon dosing. Ideally i would like to just dose excel. My reasons for this are twofold.

1. I don't have to try and shoehorn a pressurized CO2 setup into the cabinet the tank is sitting on 

2. Slower growth of plants means less time contorting my hand into the little opening in the top of the tank.

However I am concerned that my lighting may be too much and that without C02 this may become an algae farm. If I did go the pressurized CO2 route it would probably be a paintball setup. I already have the regulator and solenoid so all I would need is an adapter, the paintball tank, and the ADA ball glass diffuser to plumb into the HOB. Does anyone have experience with running an excel only edge with upgraded lights?


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## mahko (Dec 10, 2011)

Personally, I've been dosing with excel only. My lights are on for 10h and I am algae free. I don't know if these lights are low/med/high. But my growth has been pretty slow in my opinion (not that I mind.. low maintenance) I have hairgrass, a couple brazil swords, and some hygrophilia variant. 

I should note that I have the newest Edge, with the built in LED fixture. 18 white LED/ 3 blue LED.

Might want to double check my math, but I worked out 0.66mL of excel daily.


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## rgr555 (Jul 31, 2011)

Where did you buy those rocks? If online, can you provide a link?


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

rgr555 said:


> Where did you buy those rocks? If online, can you provide a link?


I actually found them at my LFS (Uncle Ned's in Millis,MA). At a $1.59/lb and no shipping charges it was a great deal. The ADA rocks are nice but not $6/lb + shipping nice.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

mahko said:


> Personally, I've been dosing with excel only. My lights are on for 10h and I am algae free. I don't know if these lights are low/med/high. But my growth has been pretty slow in my opinion (not that I mind.. low maintenance) I have hairgrass, a couple brazil swords, and some hygrophilia variant.
> 
> I should note that I have the newest Edge, with the built in LED fixture. 18 white LED/ 3 blue LED.
> 
> Might want to double check my math, but I worked out 0.66mL of excel daily.


I have been reading that the new light bar is pretty low output. I am running 24 0.5w LEDs. Because of the way the hood on the edge is designed the center of the tank gets a pretty good amount of light while the edges are definitely low light. I am just afraid that the light in the middle may be too much for excel only.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Nice scape! I think you would need some Co2 beside excel with those lights. Also, due to the top being made of glass, I think the Co2 will diffuse really well. 

I have both Edges, and am looking forward to your set up. Mainly because I too want to scape my 6 gallon Edge along the line of an Iwagumi.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

So as promised here is a couple pics of my edge 1 week after planting. It took a couple days for the HC to get going but I am starting to notice growth.




















I am having some issues with a C02 setup. The problem is that I only have 12" of vertical space in the cabinet. I am thinking a paintball setup with one of those very small Leland regulators. However I am having issue finding a paintball tank shorter then 9". If all else fails I guess I could go with one of the small 74g non-refillable canisters, but I would rather use a refillable tank.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

So its been 2 weeks of the dry start method. Things are growing but the waiting is killing me!


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## endgin28 (Feb 9, 2010)

Doing the same thing right now, patience is not my strong suit. We will suffer together.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

endgin28 said:


> Doing the same thing right now, patience is not my strong suit. We will suffer together.


It's brutal isn't it? I'm constantly checking on it trying to will it to grow faster.


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## colinlp (Dec 26, 2009)

How are you getting along with the CO2 dilemma? Have you thought about Excel or one of the other liquid versions?


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

colinlp said:


> How are you getting along with the CO2 dilemma? Have you thought about Excel or one of the other liquid versions?


I am planning to go with a pressurized CO2 setup. The plan is to use a paintball tank and a stabilizer so that I can mount the tank horizontally. Ideally I would have just used excel, but the lighting at the center of the tank is pretty intense and I'm afraid it will lead to algae growth.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

How's your tank doing so far? Any good results w/ those lights?


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

bereninga said:


> How's your tank doing so far? Any good results w/ those lights?


It's definitely growing. The front right corner is having a bit of an issue as some of the HC browned out early and was slow to fill back in. I've started trimming the sections that took off and planting the cuttings in the areas that are growing slower. I will try to get some picks up in the next couple days.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

So it's been a while since I posted in this thread. So I have been having issues with the HC. 

At first I had issue with humidity, I had put saran wrap over grating on the top of the hood piece, but it seems that was not enough. I would get some condensation on the glass but not a lot. After a couple weeks the HC started to melt. I then sealed things up a lot better and misted more frequently. The humidity is up (lots of condensation on the glass), but the HC still isn't growing all that well. I would think that it would grow quickly emersed as it has lots of CO2 to work with, but instead I am getting very slow growth and it is still melting a bit in the corners.

This leads me to believe that the light is just not enough to grow the HC. It seems that it is barely adequate for emersed growth. I am afraid that when I flood the tank that the HC will not survive. The DHG on the other hand is growing like crazy. My plan now is to get my hands on some Marsilea Minuta and use that to replace the HC. However it seems that MM is pretty scarce right now so I'll keep trying with the HC, but I am not holding out hope.


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## endgin28 (Feb 9, 2010)

I had melting due to low humidity in in my 12 long. I just ended up dunking it and since have gotten some growth and renewal. I think light wise, you should still be fine. Those LED's look pretty serious. 

I think a big factor with the speed of HC growth is temperature related as well. If your tank stays cool (60's no light, 70's w/light) it doesn't grow very quickly, IMO. I didn't review the whole thread, how long are the lights on? You might want to up your photoperiod for the emmersed phase and see if that helps, it will warm the tank a bit. (one of the curses of LED's, the lack of heat) Otherwise you could add a table lamp to assist the led's, to potentially increase growth. 

MM is nice, but in my experience it is a really slow grower compared to HC.

Best of luck


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## Beer (Feb 1, 2012)

Where did you pick up the HC?
I live a couple towns over from Ned's. I've been looking for some good LFSs, but other than NED's and one in Providence, I haven't found anything.

Have you thought about installing a spacer on the inner side of the LEDs to angle them towards the outer edges of the tank? That might help you to get a better light spread instead of it all being focused in the center of the tank.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

Beer said:


> Where did you pick up the HC?
> I live a couple towns over from Ned's. I've been looking for some good LFSs, but other than NED's and one in Providence, I haven't found anything.
> 
> Have you thought about installing a spacer on the inner side of the LEDs to angle them towards the outer edges of the tank? That might help you to get a better light spread instead of it all being focused in the center of the tank.


I got the HC at Tropic Isle in Framingham. They have a good selection for common stuff. Though they are pricey. $9 a pot for HC!

The sockets are already angled. The problem is that the hood blocks the light from spreading to the corners.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

endgin28 said:


> I had melting due to low humidity in in my 12 long. I just ended up dunking it and since have gotten some growth and renewal. I think light wise, you should still be fine. Those LED's look pretty serious.
> 
> I think a big factor with the speed of HC growth is temperature related as well. If your tank stays cool (60's no light, 70's w/light) it doesn't grow very quickly, IMO. I didn't review the whole thread, how long are the lights on? You might want to up your photoperiod for the emmersed phase and see if that helps, it will warm the tank a bit. (one of the curses of LED's, the lack of heat) Otherwise you could add a table lamp to assist the led's, to potentially increase growth.
> 
> ...


The temp could be an issue. The house is a pretty constant 70 but the tank is close to an exterior wall and a window so I wouldn't be surprised if it were a couple degrees cooler. Maybe I should flood it and see what happens.


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## endgin28 (Feb 9, 2010)

Did you flood it? Just curious.


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## Beer (Feb 1, 2012)

$9 per pot is crazy. I've seen $9 for 3x5 mats.
I should have some coming in for just over $4 per pot shipped.

Can you space the LEDs off the fixture without them being visible below the hood?

I was thinking about getting a 12G Edge. They have really clean lines and a nice look, but I didn't really see a way to light it well enough to plant it without destroying the cleanliness of it. Maybe if you built two pieces that maintained the look of the hood and placed one to each side of the hood..... You may be able to balance the light distribution without it looking like a hack DIY project.

Maybe you could find a couple of nice gooseneck fixtures that have a small head for the lamp that you could retrofit the LEDs into. Have them point down at an angle so the light comes in from above and slightly to the side.

I've also read in several places that HC isn't really a high light plant. The growth towards the surface in low tech tanks is more of a function of the plant trying to reach the surface for CO2. Plenty of people are growing it in low light with good growth by supplementing CO2. But, that's all anecdotal as I haven't seen anything with controlled experiments to prove it either way.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

endgin28 said:


> Did you flood it? Just curious.


I haven't flooded it yet. I put a hygrometer in it for a couple nights and the temp ranged between 70-75 with a humidity range of 90-95%. That's got to be sufficient for growth. I think the lights are the issue. In general the HC is growing, just slowly. I was able to score a small portion of MM from a member here so I may give that a try.


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## spratocaster (Apr 6, 2008)

Beer said:


> $9 per pot is crazy. I've seen $9 for 3x5 mats.
> I should have some coming in for just over $4 per pot shipped.
> 
> Can you space the LEDs off the fixture without them being visible below the hood?
> ...


Yeah $9 is way outrageous. Unfortunately they were the only ones around who had it and December is a lousy time to ship plants. 

I saw a post from Tom Barr some time back where he claimed that HC only needs about 25 micromols to grow as long as you have good CO2. What I have seen of the edge tanks the par is closer to 10-15 micromols. I really need to invest in a par meter. 

As far as the lights lowering them wont help as the water line is right at the bottom of the hood. To get the lights low enough to where the hood doesn't interfere with their spread would mean dropping the below the waterline. Which is a really bad idea. Either that or drop the water level below the top which ruins the aesthetic. I have seen reef guys add extra desk lamps from behind pointed at the glass. It looks ok but seems like a lot of light. 

I scored a small portion of MM so I may just give that a try.


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