# Termite Fumigation and fish tank??



## oblongshrimp

Although I have no experience with this I would assume the gas would diffuse into the water and kill your fish. You can try asking the fumigation company as I would assume they should know something like that.


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## musho3210

i wouldnt risk it, take the fish out, and the plants, and the filter media. After the fungimation change all your water out, rinse the substrate, let the filter go on for 24 hours with activated carbon before returning livestock. Of course this whole time the livestock should be in a quarantine tank not in there plastic bags.....

This is a just in case scenario though....


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## knuggs

Maybe you can wrap them with big garbage bags. You would have to seal them, with heat. And maybe run a hose from the bag to outside the house.


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## HoustonFishFanatic

The last time we had fumigation done i just covered my open top tank with a bed sheet for the whole day. had no casualties at all including flora and fauna. Just take care to pull the bed sheet all the way to the floor. Just my 2C.


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## musho3210

careful with sealing the tank shut, may have problems with gas exchange, maybe run an airpump from the outside into the tank.


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## Tsquare

Had mine done years ago not for termites but other pests. Taped heavy plastic to the tanks and I had a bunch then. My Discus got thru it in my 55. Orkin man came once a month for a year and all was OK.
Gene


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## Burks

Just seal the tanks with trash bags, making sure there is enough air in the bag. I did it with five tanks over a weekend. My plants weren't looking in tip top shape but everything was fine.


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## EdTheEdge

I gotta get my house done in the near future......:eek5:


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## Mangala

I had mine done, but I left the lights on and the heat buildup was incredible. Luckily, I turned it all off before my fish cooked, but it got up above 90 degrees. 

So uhm, remember to turn your lights off before you cover the tanks.


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## Gordon C. Snelling

Vikane fumigant is minimally water soluble. With the tank properly sealed in theory there will be no dissolved vikane getting into the tank water. I am not sure however how soluble the Chloropicrin warning agent is, but as I recall it to is not esp soluble. If you decide to leave the fish I would cover the top of the tank with the nylofume bags the fumigator can supply, tape securely completely around the edge of the bag to produce a complete seal. At one time there was a label requirement that fish be removed, I think that has been removed from the label.


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## AquaVu

I'm having my house fumigated with Vikane this weekend and I'm covering all the tanks with trash bags and run an air pump to tanks from outside the tent/house. Hope all the fishes and shrimps are Ok. I'll update when it's over.


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## fablau

AquaVu, how did it sort out? I am going to have fumigation in a few weeks, and I'd like to know your experience. Thanks!


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## xenxes

The gas kills EVERYTHING, I attempted to seal a tank off with 3 layers of saran wrap, bad idea, since they were air permeable I guess. It needs to be absolutely air tight, to be safe I'd move your tanks outside. All the plants, all the baby birds in the attic and within 10 feet of the house, all the bugs and roaches, grass ... EVERYTHING touched by Vikane gas died.


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## fablau

Unfortunately that will be impossible for me. I have 4 tanks, and some of them pretty big. I have read on other threads, people have sealed tanks successfully and survived the 48 hours fumigation...


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## FatherLandDescendant

fablau said:


> Unfortunately that will be impossible for me. I have 4 tanks, and some of them pretty big. I have read on other threads, people have sealed tanks successfully and survived the 48 hours fumigation...


 
Thick plastic, like heavy lawn bags, or 5ml window plastic. Tape seal the plastic to the tank. Depending on how long your tank will be sealed you may want to consider an air pump running from outside the house and into the tanks, might want to go lights off durring the process as wellroud:


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## fablau

That's feasible...also, I was thinking to leave the filters run, and add Carbon to remove any pesticide could enter in any event, and as soon as I get back home, 70% or more water change. What do you think?


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## Okedokey

I would break down the tank and move it outside. Otherwise use cling wrap and a air stone sourced from outside air with tube allowing air to escape via a one way valve.


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## greaser84

I did fumigation's for a termite company for 6 years, I've taken part in several 100 fumigation's. Vikane (sulfuryl flouride) is a true gas which means it doesn't leave a residual. Nylofume bags are the only bags that can actually blocked out Vikane gas and everything has to be doubled bagged. Anyone who says bag it with anything but these special fume bags doesn't know what there talking about. Trust me the gas will get through any bag you use to cover the tank (except nylofume type bags). My company would make people remove their fish and plants, we wouldn't fume the house till it was clear of all people and pets. When a house is tented and the gas put in its under a lot of pressure, that's why its able to kill termites in a thick piece of wood, it forces its self through everything. The best thing is to remove the fish and plants, if you can't and the companies is still willing to fume call and ask if they have fume bags that will cover the tank. I've seen people put paintings in 5 thick bags and tape it shut, when we would take readings of the air in the 5 bags it had the same level of vikane as the house. Running several air pumps may help keep the amount of gas lower inside the bagged tank, but the gas will still get in. You may get lucky you may not, its a gray area for sure. The gas is only in the house for 24hrs, then its aired out for 48 hours. A warning agent (tear gas is what we used) is also released in the house, because vikane is odorless.


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## fablau

Thank you for your reply and detailed info. According to what this guy wrote here, it is actually possible to avoid any casualties: 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=205609


I will ask my company if they can provide that material for sealing, and I will definitively add air from an external air pump.


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## greaser84

fablau said:


> Thank you for your reply and detailed info. According to what this guy wrote here, it is actually possible to avoid any casualties:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=205609
> 
> 
> I will ask my company if they can provide that material for sealing, and I will definitively add air from an external air pump.


I would use the same method as the guy used in the thread, the company you hired should supply you with as many Nylofume bags as you need. You can use any tape to seal it, we always recommended duct tape. Do two layer's of nylofume and you will be sealed up air tight. After 24 hours they'll be safe from the gas, hopefully one doesn't die and foul up the water. You'll be termite free! Vikane wipes out everything from the ground up except a few lucky spiders. BTW I lived in Huntington Beach for 30 years! I worked for Seashore pest control and Advantage termite control.


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## fablau

Yes, that's what I plan doing. My only concern is the amount of air remaining inside the tank: is it going to be enough for fish? I am thinking to connect an airline with a vent from the outside... In other words, two lines: one bringing air from outside, the other taking air out. Thoughts?


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## greaser84

fablau said:


> Yes, that's what I plan doing. My only concern is the amount of air remaining inside the tank: is it going to be enough for fish? I am thinking to connect an airline with a vent from the outside... In other words, two lines: one bringing air from outside, the other taking air out. Thoughts?


Ya I would think you'd want a vent line, otherwise the oxygen from the pump could build up and break the seal.


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## fablau

Yes, indeed. I will do that. I will give you an update later on. Thanks!


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## brandon429

Neat post I had no idea the gas was that pervasive nice to know!


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## mattinmd

Yes, I find it interesting as well, and what I've read backs up what greaser84 claims...

This document:
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/cleared_reviews/csr_PC-078003_22-Jan-86_008.pdf

claims "In addition, sulfuryl fluoride at a concentration of 35mg per liter penetrates 4-mil thick polyethylene sheeting at a rate of 6.2mg per square meter per hour."

Most plastic bags and sheeting are polyethylene, and 4 mil is pretty thick stuff (common garbage bags are around 1-2mil) so I definitely wouldn't count on it to protect a tank.


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## lamiskool

Goodluck! Update us after. I hope i never have to go through this lol I have waaay to many tanks


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## fablau

I will definitively keep updated and possibly will post some pictures. I will be using the big bags after minix provided me. A lot of them, I will have plenty to double seal all my tanks. Keep you posted!


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## greaser84

mattinmd said:


> Yes, I find it interesting as well, and what I've read backs up what greaser84 claims...
> 
> This document:
> http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/cleared_reviews/csr_PC-078003_22-Jan-86_008.pdf
> 
> claims "In addition, sulfuryl fluoride at a concentration of 35mg per liter penetrates 4-mil thick polyethylene sheeting at a rate of 6.2mg per square meter per hour."
> 
> Most plastic bags and sheeting are polyethylene, and 4 mil is pretty thick stuff (common garbage bags are around 1-2mil) so I definitely wouldn't count on it to protect a tank.


Interesting read! Vikane is very deadly stuff. I remember hearing about how burglars would break into houses that were being tented and die rather quickly from gas exposure. You'd have to be out of your mind to break into a house being fumed!


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## mattinmd

Yeah, apparently they release a strong irritant gas first nowdays to reduce the dead burglar issue.


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## greaser84

mattinmd said:


> Yeah, apparently they release a strong irritant gas first nowdays to reduce the dead burglar issue.


Ya we used tear gas.


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## Aquaticz

fablau said:


> Thank you for your reply and detailed info. According to what this guy wrote here, it is actually possible to avoid any casualties:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=205609
> 
> 
> I will ask my company if they can provide that material for sealing, and I will definitively add air from an external air pump.



I am the guy hat did what I wrote- 100% complete success. I really thunk that aside from the obvious (sealing) doing water changes for two weeks prior had the water in the very best condition. The other thing - remove all equipment ( lol esp the air stone) and leave the water line down a few inches before final seal


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## fablau

About removing the equipment, I actually plan to let it run as usual (with the only exception of lights and co2 of course) as I have discussed on this other forum thread:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php?t=17533

I will add carbon to the filters to remove any possible pollution of the water column, and an airline back and forth from the outside which will provide air to the fish. Thoughts?


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## greaser84

fablau said:


> About removing the equipment, I actually plan to let it run as usual (with the only exception of lights and co2 of course) as I have discussed on this other forum thread:
> 
> http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php?t=17533
> 
> I will add carbon to the filters to remove any possible pollution of the water column, and an airline back and forth from the outside which will provide air to the fish. Thoughts?


Update? How did the fumigation go?


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## fablau

It is going to be on November 25th. I will keep you posted guys. Thanks!


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## Aquaticz

Hi, I have successfully dealt with termite fumigation in the past. If you do a search and you'll find it on planted tank. I successfully protected six tanks and survive this ordeal, with No Losses,
Currently I'm up in San Francisco visiting my son I get a chance to look at the site later in the day if you're not found my post a rewrite it here. I do not know how many days you have until fumigation, however I would highly suggest you start doing water changes. By doing so you will get the water in the best possible shape it can be.I did order changes every day for the preceding two weeks. if you can't find the poster need more information please send me a PM thanks I wish you the very best of luck is definitely doable 


Regards,
Aquaticz


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## fablau

Thank you! Yes, I found your post and I will definitively follow your advice. I will get ready with my tanks tomorrow. I will take some pictures of possible... Thanks!


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## Aquaticz

Great
Remember
Water changes
Remove all equipment - everything
Seal twice- use terming bags
First layer use double stich tape and completely seal
Second layer use 3 m blue tape with same plastic ( must overlap)
Remove about 3-4 inches of water.
I used an air stone on a pump for the last 24 hr- remove and seal one very small hole
So the tank is now completely seal - no lights when the house is bagged
Really glad I can share this info - I could not find anything when I was in your spot with a 75 gallon, 55 gallon, 40 gallon breeder, Aqua japan - 15 gal
ZERO LOSSES


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## fablau

I actually plan to let the filters run, add carbon to remove possible bad stuff from water, then seal tanks very well and have an airline running for the whole time bringing air from the outside, and then another vent line to let the air go out. I am gonna test all this today with the smallest tanks. I have discussed this on another forum, it should work fine. Of course lights off and co2 off. Thanks!


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## fablau

Ok, today I have "bagged" and sealed my 3 small tanks, added carbon to all of them, added an airline coming from outside as well as a vent line to all of them. I used 1/2" tubing for the vents. Everything looks good. Tanks are super sealed with double-layers of the special plastic bags Terminix gave me.

Here are some pictures for you:











20gl tank:









2gl tank:









6gl tank:









Now, tomorrow morning I will work on my big one, 75gl with sump and wet/dry filter... But after a lot of thinking I think the best way to move there will be to turn off the filter and all pumps, add a bag of carbon nearby the airline air stone output inside the tank, seal the tank very well as I have done today with the small ones, add the airline and the vent, then seal all tubings that connect the overflow to the sump.

In the sump instead I will simply add an additional airline just to supply some oxygen to the bacteria, and of course add a bag of carbon there too. I have decided to do this way because to seal completely and very well the sump is going to be difficult being located inside the cabinet. The worse that can happen there is that I am going to lose the bacteria inside the sump, but at least the tank with the livestock will be "disconnected" from the sump and much better sealed and safer...

Thoughts?


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## fablau

Ok, here are the pictures I took 2 days ago before fumigation of the 75gl tank with sump. I will be home in a few hours then I will let you know if everything worked...

Sump:










Tank:




































It has been a lot of work, but fish, shrimp and plants should be safe!!

Let's cross our fingers and hope for the best...


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## fablau

Well... I got home right when the Terminix guys had just finished tearing down the last part of the tent, and I ran inside to see my fish.... And... [drum roll]... They were ALL alive!! No casualties, zero, nada!

I promptly removed all the sealing and changed the water, etc... And looked at the fish, shrimp, all good. I can say a real success!!

One thing only puzzled me: plants got even better, and grew a big deal!! How in the hell could that be possible? With no light, no co2 and carbon in the water? And with actually "air" pumped from outside? Someone must tell me why that happened. Some plants like my Cabomba Furcata grew almost 3 inches during my 48 hours absence (never happened before despite lately was growing a big deal every day), most of the old, stunted stems of my Rotala grew back after several months of struggling! Why's that? And be aware: my plants were growing very well anyway, with EI and Co2 finally calibrated in the past 2 months, but this incredible additional improvement of the last 48 hours without lights, ferts and co2 sounds weird and I can't find an explanation for.

Thoughts are very welcome... Thanks to all watching this thread for bearing with me, and to everyone helped me with suggestions and advice.

Back to cleaning-up the rest of my house now...


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## lamiskool

Fun fact plants actually grow at night.


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## fablau

Today I have added an air stone inside my sump, right in front of the main pump intake. I have programmed it to start when lights are turned off until dawn. When it runs, a pretty fine myst is diffused into the tank from the main pump outlets. I wanna see how my plants will react now: plenty of co2 during the day, and plenty of O2 during the night... I will keep you posted!


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## greaser84

Glad everything worked out. Looks like all the extra effort paid off! Another fun fact termite eggs don't die during a fumigation.


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## fablau

Are you kidding??!!! Terminix didn't tell me that!! Crazy... I hope I won't have termites again for at least 5 years! They guaranteed me 10 years though.... In any case, yes, fish and all critters were ok, as well as plants.


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## greaser84

fablau said:


> Are you kidding??!!! Terminix didn't tell me that!! Crazy... I hope I won't have termites again for at least 5 years! They guaranteed me 10 years though.... In any case, yes, fish and all critters were ok, as well as plants.


No I'm not kidding, termite eggs do not die from fumigation, they will hatch. But have no fear the little termite babies are completely helpless, they have to be fed by the adults and since you just killed all the adults the babies will hatch then die shortly after. That's good they gave you a warranty, the truth of it is that once the tent is off your house and the gas expelled technically you can get termites anytime. There is no residual chemical left behind, the next swarm of termites could re-infest your home but it will be years before you have to deal with them again. Termites are relatively slow when it comes to starting a new colony. Nevertheless you did the right thing fumigation is hands down the best way to eliminate termites that live above ground.


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## fablau

Thank you for what you wrote, that's exactly what Terminix told me about the fact termites will come back... But that will happen in a few years from now. Thanks!


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## mave26

Hello,

Remember! Tent fumigation treatment is used to get rid of drywood termites.Basically, as far as fumigation is not an easy process and it may cost a lot, this method is recommended and used for houses with high infestations when implementing usual termite treatment seems ineffective or impossible.
Thanks...


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