# Very Soft Water, High PH - Seattle/Vancouver BC



## Jadelin (Sep 30, 2009)

This is a issue I've been dealing with for the entire time I've been into planted tanks (a little over a year). I never posted about it, because I figured in time I would find out the answers, and it didn't really seem to be a problem. But I have never found a reason for this, as everything says that soft water should have low pH. If you're from the Seattle/Vancouver BC area, what are your water parameters like? Do you get higher pH? (I know 7.2 isn't really high pH, with water so soft it should really be much lower.)

The Seattle area has some of the softest water in the country, with both KH and GH reading consistently below 2 dH. However, my pH is consistently above 7.0. Through the year, it ranges between 7.0 and 7.4, but never in a quickly fluctuating manner (as in, it will be 7.0 for several weeks, then it will be 7.2 for several weeks, etc). Everything I've read says that this should not be the case, so I'm wondering if anyone has any insight to how/why this could be happening, and also if there is any potential harm?

In September I moved to another location 6 miles away, although it is in a different county, so the water supplier is different, but the situation is similar, with high pH and low KH/GH. I always age my tap water before adding it to my tanks, as it is >8.0 pH initially.

These are the parameters on my 29g (I've started adding GH booster). This tank has driftwood.
pH: 6.8-7.2, generally 7.0 even
GH:4-5
KH:2-3
NH3, NO2-: 0
NO3-: ~40 (It has a medium-sized goldfish, so I struggle to keep NO3- low enough)
Temp: 68-70 F
Dose: GH booster, K2PO4, was dosing Excel but not currently
Lighting: ~1.8 wpg CFL

Parameters on 10g - this tank has rocks.
pH: 7.2-7.6
GH: 4-6
KH: 4-6
NH3, NO2-: 0
NO3-: 5-10
Temp: 74 F
Dose: GH booster, K2PO4, KNO3, was doing Excel but stopped
Lighting: ~2 wpg CFL

The 10 gallon is a shrimp tank with cherry shrimp. I think the rocks might be what is making the pH higher in there? But it doesn't make sense to me that it would raise the pH so much while the hardness is hardly effected. Also, I started with 10 cherries which have been mysteriously dying one by one for the last month or so (I've had them since October with no deaths until about December). The females get saddleded, but then they don't get berried, or just drop their eggs right away if they do. The males seem to be dying much more than the females, as only one female has died whereas at least 3 males have died. Any insight? I might add this shrimply question to a different thread, since it's a bit of a different subject.


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## Jadelin (Sep 30, 2009)

Anybody?

I should learn not to post threads in the middle of the day when there's nobody to see them. :icon_roll


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I live here near seattle as well, and yeah, our water is pretty soft with a high pH. I have an RO filter and I use it, so I don't see too many problems.


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## kelly528 (Jul 22, 2009)

Weird. In Vancouver (BC) we have the same hardness but the pH is buffered to a perfect 7.0.


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## Jadelin (Sep 30, 2009)

So what's the science behind soft water with a steady high (or at least 'non-low') pH? How is that even possible? Shouldn't water that soft be very susceptible to fluctuation?


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Jadelin said:


> So what's the science behind soft water with a steady high (or at least 'non-low') pH? How is that even possible? Shouldn't water that soft be very susceptible to fluctuation?


Water can have high pH and be extremely soft if it is vigorously aerated.


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## Captivate05 (Feb 23, 2010)

Water companies don't like the water going through pipes to be acidic. Acidic water tends to break down the pipes faster, and replacing those things is huge and expensive undertaking. So the water is buffered in some way. Heavy aeration, like snausage said, or they do what my lovely water plant does and add lime and soda ash to the water (their method of softening Michigan's rock-hard ground water). 

It makes sense when you look at it that way. Most people aren't concerned with the parameters of their water, so long as it doesn't leave white spots on their dishes and what-not.


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## mattycakesclark (Jun 11, 2010)

snausage said:


> Water can have high pH and be extremely soft if it is vigorously aerated.


Or the pH can be modified by addition of treatment chemicals, one being NaOH. 

I operate an RO plant which produces a final water of low hardness with a pH hovering around 8.0, due to the addition of NaOH and to a mild degree NaCLO.

Most of the time a low hardness will correlate with low pH, but pH is a rather complex subject, and is influenced by much more than hardness, general or carbonate (alkalinity).


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## mattycakesclark (Jun 11, 2010)

Captivate05 said:


> Water companies don't like the water going through pipes to be acidic. Acidic water tends to break down the pipes faster, and replacing those things is huge and expensive undertaking. So the water is buffered in some way. Heavy aeration, like snausage said, or they do what my lovely water plant does and add lime and soda ash to the water (their method of softening Michigan's rock-hard ground water).
> 
> It makes sense when you look at it that way. Most people aren't concerned with the parameters of their water, so long as it doesn't leave white spots on their dishes and what-not.


+1. Lime is used to remove carbonate hardness in water to be treated, where soda ash is used to remove non-carbonate hardness from water. Several other steps help produce a stable water, and sometimes orthophosphate is added to help produce a thin layer of protective coating on piping to help with corrosion of pipes or to protect the leeching of lead and copper into the water from household plumbing.


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