# So is this new Ludwigia sp. OR 'Araguaia'???



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*So is this new Ludwigia sp.???*

So what makes you think that this is not Ludwigia 'Cuba'?


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> So what makes you think that this is not Ludwigia 'Cuba'?


And what makes you think it is? Dont you read before you post....?


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

I'm sure he can read just fine. He's asking you what the difference is supposed to be; from the photo, it's not so obvious to me. 

It's all inclinata anyway. No new species.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Tinanti said:


> I'm sure he can read just fine. He's asking you what the difference is supposed to be; from the photo, it's not so obvious to me.
> 
> It's all inclinata anyway. No new species.


So what it is then? 'Cuba' or Ludwigia inclinata sp. 'Araguaia'

Plz click 1st link above~last picture: it was sent out as Ludwigia inclinata sp. 'Araguaia'.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

It could be Araguia, yes. Leaves would be a bit thinner, branches less. 

BTW, there is no need for sp. here. That's used when you DON'T know the species.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

The plant I had back in 2008 as Ludwigia Araguaia did bot look like this. The coloration is different, the leaves are different the color achievable under high lighting is not similar to the plant in the pictures above. 

The only thing that comes to mind is that this is a variety of the Cuba (Tinatu you expertise to the possibility here) since you say you also have Cuba.



from my iP 5 via Tapa.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Or maybe what I had was a Yellow variation of the Pantanal as Araguaia was similar in ever regard except color?

Now I'm feeling too happy I lost this 



from my iP 5 via Tapa.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

This is a picture from when I had both of them back in 2006. On the left is 'Araguaia' and on the right is 'Cuba' in the same tank. I'm growing the same one as Joraan and I do believe it to be 'Araguaia' after growing it next to 'Cuba'. The differences in the two varieties are very small. The leaves of 'Araguaia' are a little bit thinner, it tends to grow more vertical, and sidebranches less readily.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

sidebranches~~ This is also my observation...Where as in 'Cuba' a while back I got 7 sidebranches after trimming.. :confused1:


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Yes the one on the left is Araguaia. Leaves pointy, stem at the uppermost gets red and leaf spacing/whorl not dense . I definitely have a Cuba in my tank though.





from my iP 5 via Tapa.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

AaronT said:


> This is a picture from when I had both of them back in 2006. On the left is 'Araguaia' and on the right is 'Cuba' in the same tank. I'm growing the same one as Joraan and I do believe it to be 'Araguaia' after growing it next to 'Cuba'. The differences in the two varieties are very small. The leaves of 'Araguaia' are a little bit thinner, it tends to grow more vertical, and sidebranches less readily.


Wow, that really IS a subtle difference. Are both plants worth the same or is Araguaia more expensive?

At least you can tell the difference with pantanal.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

HybridHerp said:


> Wow, that really IS a subtle difference. Are both plants worth the same or is Araguaia more expensive?
> 
> At least you can tell the difference with pantanal.


'Araguaia' tends to be more expensive as it is rarer.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Took some more close up snaps...

'Cuba'















More close up of 'Cuba'








'Araguaia'


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

What I have: 












from my iP 5 via Tapa.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

mrkookm said:


> The only thing that comes to mind is that this is a variety of the Cuba (Tinatu you expertise to the possibility here) since you say you also have Cuba.


Again, they are all forms of L. inclinata, which is found from Cuba and Mexico all the way to northern Argentina. There are no doubt many, many more still out there. Interestingly, it seems that the most common submersed variety is var. verticillata, to which all the plants in this thread belong. L. inclinata var. inclinata, in which leaves are still alternate submersed, seems to be much less common, even though it was introduced to the hobby first.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Joraan said:


> And what makes you think it is? Dont you read before you post....?


Why are you always so hostile when confronted with simple questions? There is no information in the OP about the plant other than "Its growing nicely for me". I can certainly read, thank you for your concern. 

I don't see any features that would lead me to believe that the plant in question is NOT Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba', so i just wanted to know if there was something that you are seeing that i'm not...


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Tinanti said:


> Again, they are all forms of L. inclinata, which is found from Cuba and Mexico all the way to northern Argentina. There are no doubt many, many more still out there. Interestingly, it seems that the most common submersed variety is var. verticillata, to which all the plants in this thread belong. L. inclinata var. inclinata, in which leaves are still alternate submersed, seems to be much less common, even though it was introduced to the hobby first.


hmmm...I see. You input is always appreciated.



AzFishKid said:


> I don't see any features that would lead me to believe that the plant in question is NOT Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba', so i just wanted to know if there was something that you are seeing that i'm not...


A little background to the story Az. I purchased the plant shown here as Ludwigia Araguaia from Joraan and upon receiving the plant I noticed immediately it was not the Araguaia I owned and grew fairly well a few years back. We have no qualms as we've already worked something out, so no biggie with regards to the mistaken identity. All this thread purpose is him trying to correctly identify the plant he currently has in his tank. I saying no it's not, but he is confused since he got it from an experienced member. So it's kinda like who am I to say no when another says yes and reached out for others input- no big deal to this either, I would too if I wasn't sure. 

I have no doubt's in my mind that what he sent me was Ludwigia Cuba thinking it was Araguaia and the picture I posted above confirms this. While Araguaia can look similar to Cuba in 'some' pictures it is very different plant in texture, color and growth. If we had some better pictures (not dissing anyone, just saying so please do not go there) identification would be easy/ier.

One of the biggest diference as I've mention before is the color between the Cuba and Araguaia. The Araguaia almost has a glow to it under high lighting....a Yellow'sh glow that is. Where as the Cuba leaves remain dull, but on the very top it takes on some colors as I've shown in my picture a few posts up. 

Here is an Araguaia true color or when happy :


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Here is the Araguaia beside Pantanals. Again the other trait with the Araguaia is that it looks exactly like a Pantanal, but without the Color. Cuba is not even remotely close


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Ok .....after seeing the picture posted by mrkookm: if that plant is Araguaia then what plant is this???Its not even close to any pictures of mrkookm and this is for sure not Cuba...... 

Could it be my tanks Parameter??? Light, Co2, fert etc.....?

Upon further research I came across this thread.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176713&highlight=

I might be wrong....but Is he as well?? after flowering....


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Joraan said:


> Ok .....after seeing the picture posted by mrkookm: if that plant is Araguaia then what plant is this???Its not even close to any pictures of mrkookm and this is for sure not Cuba......
> 
> Could it be my tanks Parameter??? Light, Co2, fert etc.....?
> 
> ...


Him allowing it to flower is still not telling us much since IMO he just flowered the wrong plant. We have no 'true' reference of the Araguaia flowering to compare this to, so those pics are moot. 

IMO he mistakenly sent you an Ludwigia Cuba or some other variant of the Ludwidiag Inclinata. But from the growth and color I'm getting so far it's like a Cuba and definitely not an Araguaia.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi All,

First of all I applaud Joraan and mrkookm for their efforts in this thread. It is my belief that too often plants are offered on our forums that are identified incorrectly; therefore making when our members make an effort to try to correctly identify a plant it is a good thing and should be encouraged.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Further search yield to this link....

http://www.gwapa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2590&p=23589

Originally Started by Aaron back in 2008. If you compare the flower, leave structure and such I see no difference with this

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176713&highlight=


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Manini















Aaron


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

What I want to ask though, is what do flowers on Cuba look like? For some reason, I feel like the emersed forms of these plants would have the same flowers and emersed leafs....I mean, at their base, they are really only regional variations of the same species yes?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

HybridHerp said:


> What I want to ask though, is what do flowers on Cuba look like? For some reason, I feel like the emersed forms of these plants would have the same flowers and emersed leafs....I mean, at their base, they are really only regional variations of the same species yes?


That's what I was thinking. Would there be any way to differentiate the two flowers (L. 'Araguaia' and L. 'Cuba', for example) since they are the same species and same variation, just from different locations with slight physical differences?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

> Would there be any way to differentiate the two flowers (L. 'Araguaia' and L. 'Cuba', for example) since they are the same species and same variation, just from different locations with slight physical differences?


http://www.aquaticquotient.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=2216&c=68

Now you be the Judge....


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I think I'll say no...


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

*Joraan *

i think its cuba, i remember i have bought Araguaia from you and it looked like Cuba once it was fully grown.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Tbh, I don't even see a difference between emersed Araguai and emersed Cuba.

And based on those submerged comparison pics, I think more people think it is Cuba.

I think, if you could, you should get a few stems of Araguai elsewhere, and a few stems of Cuba, and grow Cuba, your unknown, and Araguai all together just to compare. Maybe even let them grow emersed to compare structure and all. Could at least be an interesting little experiment...you could even replace your unknown with pantanal later on, just to show the three varieties side by side so that everyone can easily see the differences right off the bat.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Emersed flowers won't tell us the difference. It's a variety, not a different species. 

It's unfortunately, a case of majority rules as to whether there is a difference unless we had gone to Araguaia and collected it ourselves and taken pictures to prove that is where it came from. 

mrkookm's pictures are the real deal and do look different from what we seem to have now as 'Araguaia'. 

I'm keeping this one and one I know to be 'Cuba' in the same tank and I can say they are different, but maybe not different enough. It's quite possibly yet another variety that is even less stark in contrast. 

For the sake of the hobby it's likely best to just sell them all as 'Cuba' as the similarities are so many and the differences so minute.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

So what should we draw conclusion out of this? As Aaron said, This particular plant is not what mrkookm had before {True Ludwigia 'Araguaia'}~~~So, keep it as another form of 'Cuba' for namesake or something else...?


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

No thoughts so far........


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

I think the consensus was another form of cuba


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

It's growing more like 'Cuba' for me. Lots of sidebranching, recumbent growth, etc...


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

HybridHerp said:


> I think the consensus was another form of cuba


They are all local variations of Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata (with no botanical standing). The 'Cuba' is merely one of them, so they can't all be forms of that or some sort of sub-variation.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Nothing has changed for me, unmistakable Cuba look and growth...even more so now.


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