# Plans for an Amazon Biotope



## elbandito78 (Apr 23, 2011)

Welcome to the forum. I havent been on here're too long, but everyone seems nice and willing to help out. I don't know a whole lot about Amazon set ups but I'm sure smeone will chime in here soon. I did add a layer of peat moss under my Eco Complete, and it has given the water a slight brown tinge. I don't really notice it much, unless I pour some of the water in a white container or look through the tank longways. It's a 29 gallon regular. Have you thought about and Amazon Sword plant as well?


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## Katie92 (Jun 29, 2011)

Thank you! Yes, I have - but to be honest I'm a little hesitant to try them again, because the first time I tried them they ended up suffering due to the low light and lack of nutrients. I hear they're heavy root feeders, so would I need to just have some deep substrate (I'm thinking about eco-complete or that onyx stuff) and put a root tab under there every once in a while? Sorry, I'm totally dumb when it comes to plants, despite how much I research. X'D


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

Welcome Katie,
I have a SA standard 29 gallon tank.
You fish choices are good. Otos can be tricky to keep alive, if you have trouble with them you should consider some small cory cats. They won't eat algae like an oto will but they are pretty cool fish.

I looked alot into plant species and made a list of plants I have or may try in the future in my tank. Not all of them are from SA but you could pick out the ones that are for a Biotope setup.
Anubias
Amazon Sword
Melon Sword
Various Sword types
Parrot Feather
Bocapa
Marsilea minuta
Pygmy chain sword
Various vals
Green Cabomba
Dwarf Sagittaria

Some driftwood will leach color, if you decide you want the color but wont to avoid using peat. I set up a asian/pacific realm tank and used Organic Choice Potting mix as a base substrate and I also have a sizable piece of driftwood. The water turned teat colored, at first I wasn't too happy, but it has definitely grown on me and I kinda like it now.


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## raqg35 (Jun 22, 2010)

To get rid of the tea color you can do some water changes. It's caused from tanins leaching from the wood (or miracle grow if you use that)


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## numbah84 (Jun 28, 2011)

The tannins in the driftwood should eventually all leech into the tank then after a few water changes it should clear up if I'm correct.


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## Katie92 (Jun 29, 2011)

Yeah, I think I'll just start off with soaking the driftwood, but not completely, so there's still some tannins in there. Who knows, maybe I'll grow to like the tea color! And thanks for the plant help; I looked those species up and they do look really pretty; I'd love to have some foreground plants like the pygmy chain sword and Marsilea. I know in some portions of the rivers rocks aren't really common like driftwood, but would one or two fit in with the biotope setting? I'd like to keep the look as natural as possible.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

depends on the river setting you are going for. upper streams will have wood and rocks. the bigger rivers and slower moving streams will have less rocks, generally speaking.


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## matty26 (Feb 25, 2011)

if you were going for a river setup you could do eco completle for the swords but cap it with sand so it looks more like a river. Then use cool looking sticks you find in your backyard and make them hang down looking llike tree roots. You just have to bake them at any temp under 400 for like 30ish minutes before you use them. you could use compact swords for mid-foreground as well. I wouldn't go with the biocube though. For $250 or however much it is, you could get a nice setup. Petco has their $1 a gallon sale going on now. A 40 breeder would be a great choice. It's normally$110 but it's $40 now. Then you still have lots of money leftover for a filter and lights. I would suggest a sunsun hw-302 from [Ebay Link Removed] It's about $60 and then get an odyssea 36inch light for less than $100 from aquatraders.com. With all that you still have a lot leftover for c02 if you want it and lots of money for plants and fish. just my 2 cents


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

hey Katie welcome to the forums. I'm a Junior college student attending a school in western NY. I dove into this hobby last winter with a 10g and expanded with a second tank (5g) a few months later. I am new in this hobby (on my own, not just helping with my dad's tank when I was young) but I have learned so much from my time researching and discussing on this forum and other forums.

Will you be moving your aquariums to and from school? If so a 40g is probably not what you want to go with. A 10g is hard enough to move but with help you may be able to go as large as a 14g fairly easily (20 is probably pushing it). A tank that size won't give you the fully exhilarating effect of a 40g or 55g Amazon Biotope but it could fill your fix for aquariums, and give you some experience and more of a challenge. Smaller tanks are more difficult to maintain because they are not as easily buffered. I have posted a couple of videos about transporting aquariums. I drive 6 hours to and from school. It's a challenge but fun.

Otos are a great fish but are often times captured rather brutally. LFS don't always have the means to care for the number of otos they receive and many are already weak/stressed from their journey. If you can keep an oto alive for the first month of care then they tend to be a hardy fish and meticulous algae cleaners (diatoms mostly).

You might be able to get away with a 29g biocube. i think those tetras would enjoy the room in a 29g.This may be the experimental physicist in me talking but the best way to figure something out is to try it. I'm not 100% positive if having 3 types of schooling fish in a tank that size will work but it's worth a try.

Cory cats have wonderful personalities and would be a great consideration if you are unable to get otos. Like someone above said they won't eat algae but they will clean up food that drops to the substrate. They will help clean up your tank overall. They are also a schooling fish, even though they are bottom dwellers, so that needs to be taken into consideration when stocking.

Good luck with the tank I'll be subbing to keep track of this progress.


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## Katie92 (Jun 29, 2011)

Yeah, the reason I want to stay reasonably small is because I'll be moving everything eventually. I've moved livestock and equipment before; it isn't too hard if you have a helping hand. But considering I'll only be there for 9 months, I'll probably end up having to give or sell them back to the LFS unless I decide to stay in the dorms over the summer (not likely). A 40g tank would be way too big considering I'll be sharing a 13 by 13-foot space with a roommate, which is why I was looking at a system that's small(ish) and all-in-one. I was dead-set on the 14g biocube with plans for just plants and a school of small tetras, but looking at the 29g I noticed that it'll be easier to maintain the water quality which is also a pretty big concern. Plus the fish would have more room to school. And I figured that eh, I'd probably end up wishing I'd upgraded anyway. Bigger is better.

And yeah, I agree that a lot of stores don't treat their otos fantastically. Cories were another option as well instead of them, they're so adorable and do a great job of cleaning substrate.


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Biocubes produce a LOT of current from their internal power filter. If you want slower water, that'll be harder.

That being said, the Amazon DOES have faster-flowing areas with river rocks. Many of the more active tetras, most cories, and most plecos (loricariids) are from these areas rather than the slow-flowing "blackwater" areas. A lot of these fish are much smaller than the typical angelfish/discus/geophagus and work much better for a 29g biocube.

If you're interested in setting up a tank like this, I would recommend Uruguay swords, which are adapted to high-flow conditions and often grow in streams. Hydrophyte's tank planters are great for these (and save you a lot of $ on substrate) Put it in some river rocks, gravel, and sand from a landscaping store, and you have a beautiful Amazon whitewater stream biotope!


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## Katie92 (Jun 29, 2011)

Thanks for the info! From the sounds of it, then, it looks like I'll probably be going with a whitewater setup. I actually was a little concerned about the high flow from the Biocube's filter, even on the slowest setting... would there be any specific direction I could point it in so my fish aren't getting tired or anything? Do you think a piece of pre-soaked driftwood would be appropriate for this type of setting?


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

put driftwood in there, why not...and you dont like it or get tired of it you can always take it out


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Katie92 said:


> Thanks for the info! From the sounds of it, then, it looks like I'll probably be going with a whitewater setup. I actually was a little concerned about the high flow from the Biocube's filter, even on the slowest setting... would there be any specific direction I could point it in so my fish aren't getting tired or anything? Do you think a piece of pre-soaked driftwood would be appropriate for this type of setting?


Fish that live in high-flow conditions in nature won't get "tired" - they just need food to keep going. 

Driftwood is good, as are river rocks. Sand or gravel is fine, depending on the look you want. Like I said before, Hydrophyte's tank planters will make your life a lot easier in terms of putting plants in.

Here's a link you may find useful.
http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm#South American Clearwater Stream

My recommendations on tankmates would be any of the following:
most corydoras species (but especially the schooling dwarf cories)
bristlenose pleco
clown pleco (pretty, but not an algae eater)
bloodfin tetras
diamond tetras
hatchetfish

Any of these should be fine with current. I would still keep the current at a low setting, mind you. The pH should be around neutral to soft (6-7).


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## JSA (Jun 3, 2011)

Katie, I like Kuni's fish recommendations. I'm slowly changing my 55 gal over to an Amazon biotope (moving my Asian fish such as gouramis to another tank). One facet of the planning is to select fish for all 3 levels: surface dwellers (hatchet fish), mid tank swimmers (various tetras) and bottom dwellers (pleco, cories). I am also considering a pair or 3 dwarf cichlids which mostly hang near the bottom but go all over the tank and have a lot of personality. In a smaller tank, German Blue Rams would be gorgeous, but the water has to be well maintained.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck to you!

Julia


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## Katie92 (Jun 29, 2011)

Thanks, guys! Kuni, I checked out the tank planters from Hydrophyte - they look really cool! It does look like it'd be a lot easier to manage than just doing expensive plant substrate or sand or whatever. I was curious, though; from what I was seeing while researching substrate, it's not a good idea to layer sand on top of stuff like Flourite or eco-complete. Is this true? I'm thinking about doing sand but wondered if eco-complete-like substrate would be necessary.

The tip on the rams was nice! I was actually looking into a single GBR after the tank has been established for several months, but I'm a bit hesitant upon hearing that they're pretty fragile to changes in water parameters. They're beautiful fish, though, especially the males!

Just wondering, on another note... would pencilfish make an ideal top-dwelling species? I heard they eat a little algae here and there in addition to their usual diet?


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Katie92 said:


> Thanks, guys! Kuni, I checked out the tank planters from Hydrophyte - they look really cool! It does look like it'd be a lot easier to manage than just doing expensive plant substrate or sand or whatever. I was curious, though; from what I was seeing while researching substrate, it's not a good idea to layer sand on top of stuff like Flourite or eco-complete. Is this true? I'm thinking about doing sand but wondered if eco-complete-like substrate would be necessary.
> 
> The tip on the rams was nice! I was actually looking into a single GBR after the tank has been established for several months, but I'm a bit hesitant upon hearing that they're pretty fragile to changes in water parameters. They're beautiful fish, though, especially the males!
> 
> Just wondering, on another note... would pencilfish make an ideal top-dwelling species? I heard they eat a little algae here and there in addition to their usual diet?


You won't need Flourite/eco-complete if you go the tank planter route.

I'd wait on GBRs until you see if there are calm spots on the tank bottom. I don't think rams are big on current.

Pencilfish live in slow flow areas. A current wouldn't make them happy. Hatchetfish would be a better top-dweller choice, and the biocube-style lid makes it much harder for them to jump out than in a more typical tank.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Welcome to TPT!

I don't recall offhand exactly what lighting comes standard with the Biocube tanks, but I think I remember it being pretty high lighting- too much for a low tech setup, for sure. I know I remember discussing with someone that they'd need to use pressurized Co2 and set the tank up for high tech, but that the built-in filter would then pose a problem due to outgassing...

If you want to stick with a low tech type of setup, I think you'll do much better to buy all the componenets individually.

If you stick with a 29gal for the size, I personally would only go with one school of those relatively larger tetras you're considering. 

My own 29gal is stocked with 15x Cardinal tetras, 15x Ruby tetras, a dozen or so pygmy Cories, and a colony of Tiger shrimp. You can keep many more fish in total if you stick with species that do not get nearly as large...


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## Katie92 (Jun 29, 2011)

Hmm, yeah, it does sound like more of a high-tech setup. I'm not very experienced with the whole CO2 aspect of everything... how does the whole O2/CO2 diffusion stuff work? If this tank were to be high-tech would there be any modifications I could do to the filter so outgassing wouldn't pose as much of a problem? I just really like the biocube for the all-in-one efficiency. 

Fish-wise... would just a school of cardinals and several (~5?) diamonds suffice, along with the cories?


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Katie92 said:


> Hmm, yeah, it does sound like more of a high-tech setup. I'm not very experienced with the whole CO2 aspect of everything... how does the whole O2/CO2 diffusion stuff work? If this tank were to be high-tech would there be any modifications I could do to the filter so outgassing wouldn't pose as much of a problem? I just really like the biocube for the all-in-one efficiency.
> 
> Fish-wise... would just a school of cardinals and several (~5?) diamonds suffice, along with the cories?


The biocube light is strong, but you can just have a shorter photoperiod (6 hours?) and it's not an issue. Depending how you aim the current, you can get a lot of mixing between water and air, which sets the CO2 closer to what's commonly found in air. This is not a big deal at all with a pressurized CO2 tank, and isn't a big deal with a lowtech noCO2 setup, but it's not great for DIY yeast CO2. You won't need CO2 with just a few uruguay swords - they live in flowing streams in nature, which have the same conditions. You *will* have to provide some fertilizer, which is another reason the tank planters are great.

Cardinals don't like current much (I think) so you'd have to watch them closely to make sure the current wasn't stressing them out. They are fairly streamlined, though, so it's possible they'd be OK.

My recommendation is more diamonds, but of course those aren't quite as pretty as cardinals, are they?  Cardinals are also found in the more "blackwater" areas, not the clearwater biotopes with stronger current.

I would probably start with a small group of diamonds + cories, add uruguay swords, then play around with things a little once the tank is stable.


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## gimmethatfish (Jun 13, 2010)

Katie92 said:


> Thanks for the info! From the sounds of it, then, it looks like I'll probably be going with a whitewater setup. I actually was a little concerned about the high flow from the Biocube's filter, even on the slowest setting... would there be any specific direction I could point it in so my fish aren't getting tired or anything? Do you think a piece of pre-soaked driftwood would be appropriate for this type of setting?


In my biocube pointing the output at the surface has seemed to be the best bet for managing flow. Also I'm not sure exactly how far the lights in the 29G are from the substrate but in my 8G I am only running one lamp currently and it's still almost too much light.


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## Katie92 (Jun 29, 2011)

Blah... I really like the cardinals though  Guess I'll just have to cheat a little, haha.

Yeah, those tank planters look really cool, thanks for pointing them out. I might use them for crypts or swords. I could, however, like to do some sort of carpet plant like dwarf baby tears or hairgrass. A carpet plant won't really work in the tank planters, so would they be okay with just a sand substrate?


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

from what I've heard from some friends of mine they don't even attempt to grow baby tears without the use of dirt (usually Miracle Grow Organic Potting Mix) with a small grain gravel or sand cap, high lighting, and c02.


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