# Taiwan Bee Shrimps care questions.



## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

kashif314 said:


> I understand they are sensitive and delicate. I want to know that what are the accepted no3 and no2 levels and up to how high tds they can tolerate. I read about there water parameters which says the tds between 120-180 but can they live on little high tds as well? Please reply about TDS and accepted no3 and no2 levels and also any vital information you have. Thanks.


Assuming you are talking in ppm not micro microsiemens, usually the numbers you mentioned are considered acceptable. People claim to have a healthy colony of CRS with tds @ 240-250ppm, or even beyond that. 

The problem I see with TDS is that it is not a concrete measurement of something in the water, rather a collection of everything dissolved in the water .... well not even that because a TDS reading in ppm is calibrated to a single salt solution, and is a measure of EC which is converted using a non-universal conversion factor. 

See here: https://www.maximumyield.com/understanding-ec-tds-and-ppm/2/1343

This means even though you and I have the same TDS in ppm, if we used two different meters our results are likely off, so my acceptable range will be different than everyone else. Aim for the 120-180ppm mark, and be done with it.


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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> kashif314 said:
> 
> 
> > I understand they are sensitive and delicate. I want to know that what are the accepted no3 and no2 levels and up to how high tds they can tolerate. I read about there water parameters which says the tds between 120-180 but can they live on little high tds as well? Please reply about TDS and accepted no3 and no2 levels and also any vital information you have. Thanks.
> ...


Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Yes about TDS I understand. I read for days and yes I mean in ppm. 

Also I want to know what are the accepted range of no3 and no2 these shrimps can handle and can they survive in a neutral pH like 7?


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## CRS Fan (Jan 14, 2010)

There should be NO detectable nitrite and nitrate should be 10 ppm or less.

JMHO.

Stuart


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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

CRS Fan said:


> There should be NO detectable nitrite and nitrate should be 10 ppm or less.
> 
> JMHO.
> 
> ...


Alright thanks a lot. Also according to your experience do they thrives in neutral pH? There pH is 5.5 to 6.5 but suppose if its 7 will they thrive and breed?


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Before mentioning anything else, never ever have detectable ammonia or nitrites. These read shrimp are even more sensitive to them than most delicate fish.

To answer your question, my colony has never been below 6.8 or so during CO2 injection (and 7.4 or so without). TDS has been as high as 220 for several months due to excess K as part of my GH booster's mix and lots of tannins. Nitrates I've taken as high as 40 ppm before losing shrimp. I've also vote for 10 ppm or less unless you have a heavily planted tank with a specific reason to keep it that high.

Ultimately, I would recommend your first attempt the "right" way with buffering substrate, cycled and running for a couple months, and within parameters. Once they are breeding well for you, start experimenting. That's what I've done, and though I've lost several sub-colonies in the process of learning, it's surprising how hardy they can be while still being so delicate in other ways.

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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Before mentioning anything else, never ever have detectable ammonia or nitrites. These read shrimp are even more sensitive to them than most delicate fish.
> 
> To answer your question, my colony has never been below 6.8 or so during CO2 injection (and 7.4 or so without). TDS has been as high as 220 for several months due to excess K as part of my GH booster's mix and lots of tannins. Nitrates I've taken as high as 40 ppm before losing shrimp. I've also vote for 10 ppm or less unless you have a heavily planted tank with a specific reason to keep it that high.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Very very helpful and understandable for a new hobbyist like me. I have few more questions please. 

1) I want to know if my pH stays 7 and tds stay like 200-225 will they breed in these conditions? 



2) After how long shall I do a water change and how much water? Its a six gallon heavily planted with hob filter. 

3) Also during water changes when we reminiliz water with shrimp salt we get Gh to desired level but tds stays low like 80 so how to increase thar tds? Or is it OK to prepare water with low tds and add to existing water?

4) What is the GH you keep your Bees successfully? 4 or 5 or six and what if my KH is like 2 is it acceptable.

I don't want to do any experiments. I just want them to settle down, thrive and breed eventually and that's why I m concerned about water parameters. I am now using distilled or RO water and remineraliz it with Sl Aqua blue wizard. 

So many questions. Please reply whatever you know from your experience. Thanks.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Very very helpful and understandable for a new hobbyist like me. I have few more questions please.
> 
> 1) I want to know if my pH stays 7 and tds stay like 200-225 will they breed in these conditions?
> 
> ...


1) Maybe, but you will probably find their coloration to be poor. In experience, breeding seems to be heavily affected by the parameters of the colony they came from. A closer match will most likely go be better results.

2) Entirely depends on your tank. You need to be testing your water and learn your tank, and I'll touch on the role of TDS in a minute. 

All of my tanks are fully planted, so I do weekly water changes. My Spec V (~ 5 gallons) at work gets 2 gallons per week changed out, and I do a double water change once every three months or so. Without plants and fertilizer, you can probably do every other week or even monthly. You'll learn how the shrimp react to certain changes which will help you figure out how frequent is frequent enough.

3) 80 TDS would be barely 4.5 dGH if all that was in it is calcium and magnesium, but that's probably not the case meaning you may barely be at 4 dGH. The big if here is whether your TDS meter is accurate, but if it is, then your liquid test kit should change color on the fifth drop. If you are reading higher, your TDS pen needs to be calibrated.

4) I keep mine at the higher end - just under 6 dGH and 2 dKH because I don't use buffering substrate (that's after long term evaporation and water changes). I make my own remineralizer, so it's easier for me to measure everything out (measurements per gallon):

1/32 tsp Sodium bicarbonate (very slightly humped) - 30 TDS
1/8 tsp Calcium Sulfate - 80 TDS
1/32 tsp Magnesium Sulfate - 20 TDS
1/100 tsp Potassium Sulfate - 13 TDS
Total: 143 TDS

Tank usually sits around 170 TDS after a water change and increases to around 190 TDS around water change time (due to evaporation, organics, and fertlizer). 

A TDS pen cannot tell you what is in the water - just the measurement of dissolved solids (or electrical conductivity). This means that for it to be useful, we need to know the normal readings for our tank, learn what our tank is doing when things are correct, and then monitor for when things aren't reading as expected (and knowing when it is time to do a water change).

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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> kashif314 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Very very helpful and understandable for a new hobbyist like me. I have few more questions please.
> ...


Thanks a million. I learnt a lot from you in this thread than reading on forums. I have few more questions. 

1) I can keep everything in check like Gh and pH and tds but my KH is like 1 or two while suggested pH is maximum 0-1 so is it OK if my KH is 2 dkh? I read about your KH. Do you have successful breeding under these conditions? 

2) My TDS is about 175-180 and it slowly increase to 200 or above mainly because I add fertz and glut as co2 substitute. So please tell me what is the accepted tds level which doesn't put any strain on shrimp.

3) I read that Bee shrimp water should be changed very late as they are sensitive to water changes. The guy who sold me told to do a water change after a month and only change 20 percent maximum. Here one problem arise. If I delay water change to one month then I definitely will have tds high. Usually my water is crystal clear even after a month so please advise. 

3) My GH and KH test kit on its way. Before that I was using strips but I discarted them and ordered api gh/kh kit. However I am confused over one thing. How to check KH with apiI kit or any similar. It says to put drops and wait till color changes and numer of drops is your KH. But what if my KH is zero? I will put one drop and it will change color so how to test for this? 

4) You have been keeping Bees for long so according to your experience are they really as sensitive as it is said? I don't trust or reas everything people say. People keep discus and do daily water changes etc but I didn't find discuss to be as delicate as people claim. I however lost crystal red and black shrimps because I had tds 295 and I was using tap water after using Seachem Prime. But nowi switched to RO or distilled whatever is available. Please share your knowledge about them. 

Sorry too many questions but I find someone who is keeping these gorgeous little guys so I wanna learn everything possible from your experience bro. Thanks.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

kashif314 said:


> 3) My GH and KH test kit on its way. Before that I was using strips but I discarted them and ordered api gh/kh kit. However I am confused over one thing. How to check KH with apiI kit or any similar. It says to put drops and wait till color changes and numer of drops is your KH. But what if my KH is zero? I will put one drop and it will change color so how to test for this?


The API kits are not the best tools for measuring low kH or gH. The colour in the test tubes is very very light in solour making it hard to see when the endpoint is reached. I find anything under 3 or kH/gH is hard to read. Could be just my eyes, but others are claiming the same kind of thing, very faint colour change at lower levels. 

In your case, with a 0 kH there wont be any colour, it will go straight to yellow.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Thanks a million. I learnt a lot from you in this thread than reading on forums. I have few more questions.
> 
> 1) I can keep everything in check like Gh and pH and tds but my KH is like 1 or two while suggested pH is maximum 0-1 so is it OK if my KH is 2 dkh? I read about your KH. Do you have successful breeding under these conditions?
> 
> ...


1) Don't worry too much about being a little bit out of suggested parameters. It's far more important that parameters are stable than trying to match the "perfect" parameters. Having said that, GH is one exception where kept much below 4 or much above 6, and they will eventually have molting problems. Even if kept between 4-6, if the amount of calcium that makes up your GH is much less than about 2/3rds of it, they will still probably have molting problems. This is why most people use RO with remineralizer.

I've successfully had them breeding as high as somewhere between 4-5 dKH and a pH around 7.6. Evaporation, even with RO topoffs, ended up adding more KH than I had realized which is why I started adding a double water change once every 2-3 months. Bad on me for not testing more regularly...

2) If water going in is 80 TDS and your starting TDS is 180, something isn't right. Also, an increase of about 20 ppm in a week is on the higher end unless, like me, you have driftwood or other things contributing to tannins.

I'm sure having kept discus you know how to get the right readings on the nitrate test kit. Still, I'd double check all test kits you have to see if you can figure out why TDS is so high.

3) Unlike some, I have no issues with the API test kit other than that the directions could be more clear. One drop really means your dH is within a range, not an exact number. Here's my tips on using the test:

If color changes on the first drop, your dH is between 0-1. If it changes on the second drop, it's between 1-2 dH (and so on).

1 dH can be a pretty big range, so if you'd really like to be more accurate, double the volume of water, and you are now able to determine in steps of .5 dH. In this case, 1 drop would be between 0-.5 dH, 2 drops between .5-1 dH, etc.

Last trick is that if you have a calcium test kit (or ask a reefer friend to borrow one), you can roughly estimate how much of your tap's GH is Ca, and then subtract that from the GH (1 dH = 17.8ppm) to get a rough estimate of Mg content.

4) Yes and no, lol. To achieve higher grades, there was a lot of inbreeding initially which resulted in more sensitivity. I think that has dramatically improved over time, and what we have now is nothing like what all the original Internet articles have written about.

I have mostly SS grade with a few SSS grade, but I find them to be far more forgiving than expected. Like I said, my parameters have been crazy for several months with no issues other than some loss of color. Difficulty there is when you have a hundred in a tank, it's hard to tell who molted versus lost color due to bad parameters...

On the other hand, I did lose most of my primary colony over a period of three months due to what seemed like a bacterial infection, but it could have been several things. I was using tap, and we had a cryptosporidium outbreak... Then my wife used both aerosol hairspray and static guard around the tank (my fault for forgetting to put the cover back on the tank after maintenance). And the real fun one is my son tossed his stuffed animal that has literally traveled the world into the tank while I was doing a water change, but what kind of dad doesn't pick up their crying 1 year old? 


Finally, I've had CRS living for a couple months (not breeding though) in close to 250 TDS water which had a high potassium and tannin content. The GH and all other parameters were good though, which is probably where your previous attempt went south. GH, or more specially calcium, related issues (leads to failed molts) are probably the number one cause of death for newer shrimp keepers.


Edit: Oh, and for water change quantity and frequency, I go based on stability of parameters. I couldn't keep it stable if I did monthly, so I do what I can to keep everything stable. Also, I always drip my water changes. I feel like that made a big difference when I first started doing it


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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> kashif314 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a million. I learnt a lot from you in this thread than reading on forums. I have few more questions.
> ...


Oh dear. Very detailed reply. Thanks a million. I noted all points down and will consult them often. 

What happened was that my test kits which were strips were highly inaccurate. That's why I added too much reminilizer to water and still it showed Gh less than 4. I am new to this so didn't know quantity of amount to add. I used sl aqua blue wizard. Read nice reviews. Today my api gh KH kit arrived. These are my parameters. 

Gh 9
Kh 3 to 4 

Please suggest what I need to do? Just add plain distilled water to lower Gh?

Also water parameters of my RO and Distilled water are as follows: 


Distilled Water 
----------------

Gh 4
Kh3

RO Water 
-----------

Gh 4
KH 3

So this means I need to use very less reminilizer for next time right? I thought RO and Distilled have zero Gh and KH no? 

About TDS I understand why it went up. Its the chemical I used to lower ph. Tds went up to moon because of it. So please advise if RO and Distilled water usually have this Gh and KH? Also what shall I do to lower my GH?


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Oh dear. Very detailed reply. Thanks a million. I noted all points down and will consult them often.
> 
> What happened was that my test kits which were strips were highly inaccurate. That's why I added too much reminilizer to water and still it showed Gh less than 4. I am new to this so didn't know quantity of amount to add. I used sl aqua blue wizard. Read nice reviews. Today my api gh KH kit arrived. These are my parameters.
> 
> ...


First, never use chemicals to raise or lower pH. They usually cause pH swings and are terrible for stability. Just let the pH be what it is. As I've said, I've had a CRS colony for a couple years around 7.4 - they will be fine as long as GH is good and KH isn't way out there.

RO should be under 5 or so TDS assuming the membrane is still good. True distilled should be 0. Both should have 0 GH and 0 KH. Something isn't right here, and you need to find a good source of pure water.

As for bringing the GH down, I would swap out 20% with good RO or DI (5 TDS or less) to bring GH down to around 7, wait a week, and then swap out 20% with good RO or DI again to bring GH down to the mid-5's. After that, you can start doing water normal, remineralized water changes.

With remineralizer, they expect almost zero TDS RO water, so tap can be really unpredictable. After having had enough scares and issues with my own tap, I've finally moved on to an RO buddie to create RO (usually a TDS of 1) and then mineralize with my own mix.

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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I am om a point where I feel dejected. All my plannings going wrong. I have two sources only. RO from LFS and Distilled water from reputable gas station where they use it for car batteries. Tds of distilled water is like 1 to 3 maximum. I don't understand how the GH and KH showing so high. I am using api kit. I put 5 ml water and put drops and shake and count drop till it goes to green in case of Gh test and yellow in KH test. I don't know why they showing 4 Gh and tds. Some more questions please: 

1) Api green should be dark green or light green when Gh is measured? 

2) If my distilled water have a Gh of 4 it means it does have calcium and magnesium ions right? Otherwise Gh can't be 4. So if I add little reminilizer to make it like 5 to 5.5 is that OK? I mean my distilled water Gh is ok to add reminilizer? 

3) in that case if I add less reminilizer tds will be very low. Can I mix like bottled mineral water with distilled water? It has tds of 100-110. I can put little with distilled until desired tds is achieved. 

4) KH is 3 is it OK? 

And yes I will never use chemicals again. I wonder why they make it if they know pH will rise again. My pH indeed crashed. From 5.5 to 8 again. Right now I am worried about Gh. Please suggest and specially question 2 about Gh of distilled water. I am new to this so just confirming Gh is calcium and magnesium and if a water has 4 already means it has both present.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Thanks a lot for the explanation. I am om a point where I feel dejected. All my plannings going wrong. I have two sources only. RO from LFS and Distilled water from reputable gas station where they use it for car batteries. Tds of distilled water is like 1 to 3 maximum. I don't understand how the GH and KH showing so high. I am using api kit. I put 5 ml water and put drops and shake and count drop till it goes to green in case of Gh test and yellow in KH test. I don't know why they showing 4 Gh and tds. Some more questions please:
> 
> 1) Api green should be dark green or light green when Gh is measured?
> 
> ...


Don't be too worried, I think you'll be just fine. If TDS of the distilled is that low, something is wrong with the tests. 1 dH is about 17.8 ppm, so you can see how it's impossible to have higher than 1 dKH or 1 dGH with a TDS under 17.8 ppm 

Before testing, make sure you clean the tubes thoroughly with the water you will be testing. If you rinse the tube with tap that has high GH/KH, the residual can throw off the test a bit. The odd part here is that I don't see it throwing off the test by that much unless your tap is like 30+ dH or something crazy.

You can always buy 1 gallon or sometimes 2.5 gallon distilled water jugs from the grocery store as well. I did that while experimenting before buying an RO unit.

For your questions:

1) As soon as it changes from yellow to green, that is the top of the range. To explain, that means if it changes on the third drop, your top of the range is 3, and the bottom of the range is 2. Basically, we know it is somewhere between 2-3 dH.

If you need more accurate than 1 degree, you can double or quadruple the water volume being tested (so 10 or 20 ml instead of 5), and then each drop measures ranges in .5 or .25 respectively.

2) With a GH of 4, your "distilled" water would have to be at least 70 TDS. I think either the test is bad or the water has been remineralized for taste. You'll have to figure out what is going on there first.

3) I'd avoid that. TDS means nothing because we don't know what is contributing to it. You could have 80 ppm of calcium, 80 ppm of nitrates, or 80 ppm of potassium, and reach of those examples would read as 80 TDS. So, TDS is really only helpful for troubleshooting and verifying our input into the tank (which can help with determining when to do water changes as well).

4) Yes, it will be fine, though if they were not raised in similar water parameters, they may take longer to start breeding.

GH measures divalent meyal ions - mostly calcium and magnesium ions (but there are other ions that are such a small percentage that we don't care). Your distilled water should have none because all minerals would be left behind as part of the distillation process.

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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. I didn't clean the tubes by tap water. I used same water to clean which I used as test specimen. 

Now I am confused. I did re check tds of distilled water and it is showing 3 tds. Now you saying with a TDS of 3 its not possible to have 4 Gh in water. I switched from strips to API but still facing problem. If for my distilled water they at distillation process added something to reminilize than tds should be high right? 

1) Now what shall I do? Trust my TDS or trust my kit and lower Gh by plain distilled Water changes? 

2) I am really confused here what and how greenish water should get. Api didn't give a reference chart. Here is my water. It does look greenish from top view but vertical view it looks slightly green. Please advise if its good. This color I achieved with three drops of Gh liquid.



















3) Is it possible to have 4 Gh and 3 KH by any chance if tds is this low? I mean I am not familiar with these chemical stuff. So if its not possible and test is false then Is it possible to measure gh by means of tds? I mean I use Distilled water which has 1-3 tds and reach a certain amount of tds by adding reminilizer and can guess my GH that if this TDS than it may have this Gh? I don't mean existing tank water. I mean if new water I make. I have sl aqua blue wizard reminilizer. Instructions say 10 ml of conditioner raise Gh to 1 for 100 litter (26.5 US gallon) of water. So can I make the water by this calculation? Please correct me if I am wrong if this means 1 ml of conditioner will increase Gh to 1 for 10 litres right. 

Only thing confusing for me here is that I need to be sure my test is bad. Please advise what shall I do? Thanks


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Hard to tell in the picture, but it looks green to me. You are saying it changed from yellow to green on the third drop? That means 2-3 dGH, so minimum TDS should be 35, not 3. It is far more likely for a TDS pen to be out of calibration than a new test kit be bad, but just in case you got old stock, when does the test kit way it expires?

If you are truly seeing that much mineral content in distilled water, either they are adding minerals back in for taste or they are lying to you about it being distilled.

Unfortunately, you are in a really tough spot unless this can find a better source of water such as the grocery store or something. Assuming the test kits are not expired, I would trust those over the TDS pen, and I would order some calibration solution for the TDS pen (good to have on hand anyways). If I were you, I'd remineralize based off the kit meaning you want to raise your GH by 2 at the minimum (I'd try to do 2.5 ml per 10 l personally).

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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Hard to tell in the picture, but it looks green to me. You are saying it changed from yellow to green on the third drop? That means 2-3 dGH, so minimum TDS should be 35, not 3. It is far more likely for a TDS pen to be out of calibration than a new test kit be bad, but just in case you got old stock, when does the test kit way it expires?
> 
> If you are truly seeing that much mineral content in distilled water, either they are adding minerals back in for taste or they are lying to you about it being distilled.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the reply. My TDS pen is accurate and I have calibrated solution and tds pen always show the same TDS for distilled water. They sell in 500 ml bottles. I buy ten twenty bottles and tds show same TDS for all bottles. My tank water it shows 180-190 tds and I immediately put in distilled and it shows 3 tds means tds meter is fine. 

Adnoc is very reputed company and control all petrol stations in UAE. For quality control no other company is allowed to open a gas station. There chemical factory produce this water for car batteries. So I believe they aren't lying. 

About the test some members told me that api kit having a hard time reading low Gh and KH. My kit never get blue on first for KH. It stays colorless until it develops a yellow after two three drops. And for Gh it doesn't get orange as well on first few drops. It stays colorless and slowly develope orange and then green. Kit expiry date is 2021 means its not old. 

Now my main question is that is it possible with such low tds such Gh and KH? I am inclined to just trust tds pen and manufacturers instructions for water and as u said little more solution than recommended. 

I am not familiar with these chemical things. All I know is that tds is total disolved solids in water which can be anything. So if a TDS is 3 means it is very pure and no ions inside. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Thanks a lot for the reply. My TDS pen is accurate and I have calibrated solution and tds pen always show the same TDS for distilled water. They sell in 500 ml bottles. I buy ten twenty bottles and tds show same TDS for all bottles. My tank water it shows 180-190 tds and I immediately put in distilled and it shows 3 tds means tds meter is fine.
> 
> Adnoc is very reputed company and control all petrol stations in UAE. For quality control no other company is allowed to open a gas station. There chemical factory produce this water for car batteries. So I believe they aren't lying.
> 
> ...


The GH of my tap at home is 2.5, and the GH of my tap at work is 1.5 (as of a month ago when I last checked). I can't say I've bothered to test RO or anything softer than that, so maybe it's an issue worry the test that I've never seen before.

Based on what you've said, I would believe the TDS meter over the test kit in this case. I'd test the distilled water the same as RO, and you'll just follow the directions to remineralize properly. Once remineralized, test with the kit to double check that the rest kit is showing the expected results.

If that looks correct, then I'd trust the test kit to test the tank water correctly, and then I'd make changes as necessary 

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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> kashif314 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a lot for the reply. My TDS pen is accurate and I have calibrated solution and tds pen always show the same TDS for distilled water. They sell in 500 ml bottles. I buy ten twenty bottles and tds show same TDS for all bottles. My tank water it shows 180-190 tds and I immediately put in distilled and it shows 3 tds means tds meter is fine.
> ...


Thanks a lot. Yes will do same as you suggested for new water. 

As I mentioned I accidentally reminilized my water too much. Put too much conditioner and Gh went to 8 or 9. So after doing partial water changes my tank parameters are:

TDS: 130 Ppm 
Gh: 4 dgh
Kh: 1-2 dkh
PH: 6
No3, No2 and Amonia are nill. 

So I think I entered the good water parameters zone now. I felt like an athlete feel after winning the marathon or a student when he get his masters degree lol. 

However I am concerned on few things still. Yes I am very ocd person lol. Glad you are bearing with me still lol. Here are my concerns: 

1) After water change pH was 6.5 but after water in tank rested for 24 hours pH dropped to 6 or possibly 5.5. Hard to tell because subtle difference but looks like 6. So it means my driftwood, substrate etc is buffering PH. I am concerned it may drop more. What is the accepted low pH for Bees? Perfect PH is said to be 5.50 to 6 but what if it dropped and decrease to say like 5? Is it OK?

2) Also do plants alter Gh? I mean they consume minerals. Will they consume calcium or magnesium or other trace elements included in conditioner? Want to know if Gh will stay stable for long. 

3) I want Gh to be 5 dgh. So I mixed 1 ml of conditioner to water. I am giving water 24 hours for Gh measurement. Is it OK? 

Please reply. Thanks.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Thanks a lot. Yes will do same as you suggested for new water.
> 
> As I mentioned I accidentally reminilized my water too much. Put too much conditioner and Gh went to 8 or 9. So after doing partial water changes my tank parameters are:
> 
> ...


What substrate are you using? Seeing KH at all makes me question if it is buffering or not. Also, on NO3 being 0, double check the directions and make sure you are testing correctly. It is a frustrating test that many of us had difficulties with initially. Just bang bottle 2 on a counter or table for a good minute before using it...

1) Low pH, even into the 5's is not an issue, but unstable pH is. If it fluctuates a lot and your substrate is not a buffering substrate, you need more KH to buffer acids that affect pH.

Lowering due to tannins from wood, leaves, etc. is fine as long as you aren't changing out to much water too frequently (where it would cause major swings in pH).

2) Yes and no. They do consume calcium and magnesium, but I don't believe it is enough to affect the GH to the point it would cause molting issues (unless you only did a water change every few months or something crazy).

3) I usually make up my water a day or two ahead of time as well. If you are getting a reading around 5 after 24 hours using 1 ml, that is great. It doesn't need a full 24 hours to dissolve - I just mix ahead of time so the water change takes less time that day 



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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

Thanks a lot. I am finally relieved. After resting water in tank for two days and after adding fertilizers and glut my readings are This:

Tds: 160
PH: 6.5
GH: 5
KH: 1-2
Amonia: Nill
NO3: Nill
NO2: Nill
Temperature: 72-74

I think they are very good parameters for Bees right? 

1) No3 and No2 are zero because I don't put nitrogen in my tank so I think my plants eat all the nitrites and Nitrates produced. Please correct if its true. 

2) I have ADA soil. Which I believe has buffering capacity. I checked PH today again and it showed 6.5. So its sometimes 6 and sometimes 6.5. Is this ok? 

3) After water change my TDS was 130 after 24 hours. I dosed some fertz and it went to 137 or something but I accidentally put some Seachem Prime as a habit of putting in non distilled water as I use to do before. My TDS rocked to 160. I am not sure if Seachem Prime did that or if its potassium and Iron which I dosed? I noticed this before too that micro fertz don't increase tds so quick but specially when I add iron my TDS went up. Please advise if that's the case. 

Thanks.

By the way this is the tank we are talking about


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Thanks a lot. I am finally relieved. After resting water in tank for two days and after adding fertilizers and glut my readings are This:
> 
> Tds: 160
> PH: 6.5
> ...


All of that looks great - parameters are excellent and the tank looks beautiful.

Some quick notes more for future reference - most ADA soils buffer pH, and I'm betting you have Amazonia. The KH reading is throwing me off a bit because usually the substrate will remove KH. It's good that you've converted to DI water as anything with KH will deplete the buffering capabilities of the ADA soil.

ADA soil comes charged with a ton of nutrients. Although you aren't dosing nitrogen right now, once the soil runs out, you will have to. Just keep an eye on the plants for deficiencies, and add nitrogen when needed.

The pH should stay pretty steady at 6.5ish unless you are injecting CO2. If the pH is swinging and you aren't adding CO2 (which is different than glut), than your substrate may be exhausted, and you'll need to add a little KH to keep the pH stable (you can use sodium bicarbonate which is also known as baking soda).

Raising TDS is just based on how much is dissolving into the water. The ADA soil can actually absorb nutrients as well, so you may see TDS go down a little bit due to that and plant consumption. If TDS is rising significantly after dosing Iron, double check the amount you are adding. Comprehensive adds a modest amount of iron already, so Iron is a supplement to that.

Also, never dose Prime when dosing micros/Iron as Prime will bind to the nutrients making them unavailable to plants.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> kashif314 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a lot. I am finally relieved. After resting water in tank for two days and after adding fertilizers and glut my readings are This:
> ...


Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Yes its ADA Amazonia aquasoil. My pH is now constantly 6.5 which I believe is good. Tds is still in range but slowly creeping. I think prime added a lot to tds. Also my GH I checked today and it is now 6. I checked twice and its 6. I don't understand how it increases from 5 to 6 really. If its something have to do with prime or potassium or flourish comprehensive? 

I also need advise please. I am having a shipment of like 30 shrimps soon. So I want to lower tds before adding them. This time I won't do mistake of putting prime in water. So please suggest shall I keep the GH to 5 for the reminilized new water or a little? I mean I see it gradually increase in my tank. So please advise. It will be my first time making DI reminilized water.

And wish you and your family a very very happy and prosperous new year. 

Thanks.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Yes its ADA Amazonia aquasoil. My pH is now constantly 6.5 which I believe is good. Tds is still in range but slowly creeping. I think prime added a lot to tds. Also my GH I checked today and it is now 6. I checked twice and its 6. I don't understand how it increases from 5 to 6 really. If its something have to do with prime or potassium or flourish comprehensive?
> 
> I also need advise please. I am having a shipment of like 30 shrimps soon. So I want to lower tds before adding them. This time I won't do mistake of putting prime in water. So please suggest shall I keep the GH to 5 for the reminilized new water or a little? I mean I see it gradually increase in my tank. So please advise. It will be my first time making DI reminilized water.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear the pH has stabilized! Amazonia is good soil.

GH will increase as water evaporates, as you add micro-nutrient fertilizers such as Flourish Comprehensive or CSM+B, as you add iron, and as calcium within the tank dissolves (dead snail shells, food, etc.).

I'd keep targeting 5 dGH knowing that it will slightly increase, and for the incoming shrimp, I'd worry more about keeping a stable GH than worrying about TDS. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> kashif314 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Yes its ADA Amazonia aquasoil. My pH is now constantly 6.5 which I believe is good. Tds is still in range but slowly creeping. I think prime added a lot to tds. Also my GH I checked today and it is now 6. I checked twice and its 6. I don't understand how it increases from 5 to 6 really. If its something have to do with prime or potassium or flourish comprehensive?
> ...


Thanks a lot. Problem is that my water evaporates very quickly because Tank has no lid and my room has air conditioner on. You won't believe that I noticed 500 ml of water is evaporating in two days. I have to top up every two days and since I buy distilled water so its running cost for me.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

kashif314 said:


> Thanks a lot. Problem is that my water evaporates very quickly because Tank has no lid and my room has air conditioner on. You won't believe that I noticed 500 ml of water is evaporating in two days. I have to top up every two days and since I buy distilled water so its running cost for me.


Yeah, lids are great for many reasons, and if you have no RO system, they'll save you a lot of money in the long run 

Reducing surface agitation will help with evaporation, but then you lose oxygenation. With shrimp, not a good trade-off 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> kashif314 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a lot. Problem is that my water evaporates very quickly because Tank has no lid and my room has air conditioner on. You won't believe that I noticed 500 ml of water is evaporating in two days. I have to top up every two days and since I buy distilled water so its running cost for me.
> ...


Thanks a lot. Yes I have a small hob filter and already my surface agitation is not too much. I have one more question please. Is glut ok for shrimps? I read it is ok but maybe I feel but I always find my Shrimps more active if o forget to put Seachem excel in tank. I put suggest amount always. Tank is 6 gallon and I put 0.5 ml of excel in tank. My Shrimps are not very active.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Might be a good idea to stop the Excel temporarily and see how well they do. If their behavior improves, then start with smaller doses of Excel and build up to something higher.


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## kashif314 (Oct 11, 2017)

Zoidburg said:


> Might be a good idea to stop the Excel temporarily and see how well they do. If their behavior improves, then start with smaller doses of Excel and build up to something higher.


Thanks. I didn't get the point "build up to something higher" please explain. Thanks.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

If you are dosing .5 ml, then cut out Excel temporarily. Then start at .1 ml for a few days, then .2 ml for a few days, then .3... etc


But keep an eye on your shrimps behavior. See if cutting out Excel helps or if it does nothing at all.


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