# 20oz paintball CO2 cylinder for plant aquarium???



## illego69 (Dec 17, 2003)

Has anyone ever try to use the 20oz paintball CO2 cylinder for plant aquarium? Just curious!


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

It has been debated in the past... I think the conclusion is that there is an oil mixed in with the C02 to lube the gun when it fires(I could be wrong)... Oil and planted tanks hence dont mix... 


J


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The problem is finding a way to get the CO2 from the cylinder to the tank. I'm not sure if you can even find a regulator that will fit a paintball cylinder. And then there is the problem of how long it's going to last.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

From what I understand ADA makes a fitting for these small tanks because the norm in Asia is 15gal or something to that effect.. check it out over at AB

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=4006090712&f=3996060812&m=5846083805


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Lol and here I was thinking of using the CO2 from the Sodastream cooldrink machine thingy, even have a few spares...


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## NyCzBuBba (Nov 16, 2003)

So how do I set it up like the one on that other forum?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

You don't. If you can find that little regulator the price will scare the crap out of you. As I recall the regulator alone was somewhere in the neighborhood of $150. That's pretty much a regular sized CO2 system price.


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## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

paintball CO2 is plain old CO2...I used to help a friend fill our 7.5 and 9 oz tanks back home when I played.
But yes, the problem is that CO2 tank is 20oz. depending on the size of your tank, you might be refilling it every month, instead of a couple times a year.
Plus, consider the cheapest standard regulator I found was $44, but by the time I got a bubble counter and needle valve, it was as much as a Milwaukee all in one, which can be had for $80 plus shipping.
If Rex says one for your non-standard tank is $150, I'd believe it. For that price you can get a Milwaukee all in one, and a 5lb or maybe 10lb tank. 

There's a difference between DYI, and forcing objects to perform tasks they were never intended to perform.


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## badmatt (Nov 19, 2003)

you can use the paint ball cylinder just goto a welders store or and place that they sell nitrous oxide. Because the will also have to carry co2


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

badmatt said:


> you can use the paint ball cylinder just goto a welders store or and place that they sell nitrous oxide. Because the will also have to carry co2


The nitrous oxide comment explains a lot. The problem with the paint ball cylinder as has been explained is that you need to find a regulator for it. They are available but cost more than a full normal sized CO2 setup costs.


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## badmatt (Nov 19, 2003)

you can just buy and adaptor at any welders supply store a normal size regulator


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## mitchell2345 (Jun 9, 2004)

I believe this is very possible to do for way less than what a 5lb tank will cost. The only thing im concerned with is how long it will last. To get the CO2 to the regulator all you need to do is buy a cheap paintball remote. Found on ebay for around 25-30. This will press the pin to get the co2 out and the end of the remote has the right size to fit a standard regulator. I havent tried any of this but I play paintball and have taken my paintball remote and it is the same size as the bulk CO2 tank so im sure it will work. If anyone has tried this let me know on how long the tank is lasting.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

I can get a 5lb CO2 tank around here for $60 Canadian... So Around $40 US... So if you figure your cost of the adaptor, your only looking at an extra $10... Not a big savings for a considerably smaller bottle that you will be filling monthly.


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## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

no matter how many times someone will try to drudge up this post...the fact remains that using a $40 20oz paintball tank will never be as cheap as a 5lb setup. You have to buy that adapter, which I've seen priced from $40 up to $80...in addition to EVERYTHING else (regulator, airline, etc)

Plus the end on a paintball tank is NOT the same as a CO2 cylinder, so my local welding place wont' fill them. instead I'd have to go to a paintball store and have them fill it. last time I checked a 20oz tank was $8 to fill. my 5lb tank is $10 a fill.

Now, has the dead horse been fully beaten?


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

I brought this post back up because I'm looking for a mini setup. 

It seems that the main reasons why not to use a paintball tank is-
1) cost of refills (co2 runs out too fast)
2) specialized refill stations.

After doing some research- i found that you can fill your own paintball tanks if you have the right tools and pay about the same amount on co2 refills.
I found this on eBay. You can use a 10 or 20# tank with a special adaptor.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Paintball-CO2-T...190940798QQcategoryZ83044QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here is one that's even cheaper-
http://cgi.ebay.com/Paintball-Gun-F...190624952QQcategoryZ10554QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Now the main reason why I want a mini co2 set up is space. I'd like to put a paintball tank behind the tank, out of view. Its just how I want to set it up.

The only problem I'm encountering at the moment is the regulator. Since a paintball tank has different sized threads, the normal regulators we are use to wont fit them.

My question is- is there an adapter out there for a paintball tank, so I can use a standard co2 regulator?


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

There is nothing that makes this impossible. There appears to be two major issues. It will not cost less, and it will be more hastle. I can get paintball cylinders refilled for $2 a pop about 600 yards from where I am sitting. Or I could just hook them up to my bulk tank (which I picked up used - old 20lb soda fountain co2 tank). 

There was a thread that a person tore down a marker and used the regulator out of it - but the tread has not been updated for the outcome - will edit this for a link in a second.http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16447 

The ada style regulator has been for sale in the home brew stores for at least 10 years. - it cost about $125 and uses small disposably co2 cartridges (I think they are about the size of the air source co2 cartridges - maybe 6oz? but that is a large WAG). I did homebrew arround 94-96 and rember seeing it and thinking way neet - but was a poor college student then) Oh and at the time, there were both manual shut off and pin valve paintball tanks (the valve assemplies were interchangable - but manual shut off tanks were harder to come by. A manual shut off tank would possibly make this an easier adventure.

I wish I had more funds to play on this project - but I am still hoping for someone else to do the legwork and then post - looky what I did for $$.


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## SnyperP (Dec 31, 2004)

I think every few weeks someone asks this question.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=8909

It's more than possible, but it's not really cost effective. If size is your major concern and not the funding, this may be an option for you.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

jgc and SnyperP- I totally understand that its not cost effective- but that's the price you pay for wanting a small set up like this.

I've already got a 20# tank. if i bought one of those adapters on eBay, why would it cost more co2? It seems about the same- I just have to refill it more often.

The only thing that holds me back is the adaptor.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/stabilizer.htm 

Here is a premade beer system for paintball co2 tanks (near bottom of page). 
I understand, was simply trying to state the obvious. The reason it will cost more is that most of the parts we use are fairly common (co2 regulators and cylinders are everywhere). Specialty parts generally costs more. 

I suspect a major issue using the paint ball tank is stability. Our tanks are nice heavy and short, they don't tip over easily. A paintball tank is just waiting to fall over, and if it falls over, you will get liquid co2 in your regulator - which I think will destroy a normal regulator. Paintball systems may be designed to handle that.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

check this out!
http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/sho...hp?photo=16410


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## New 2 fish (Dec 26, 2004)

Try again Marc- it looks like a bad link.


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## [RK] (Aug 11, 2005)

heres the full link:

http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16410&cat=2


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Sorry bout that!

Thanks RK for the correct link. roud:

JGC- looks like its the same thing from what I linked.


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## SnyperP (Dec 31, 2004)

Yea, it's the palmer unit that's in the link that i used. The only problem i see with that, is the lowest pressure is 2psi. I'm not sure if that's low enough for our uses. I imagine it would be a bit cheaper to piece together one with a needle valve. I'm wonder if you could change out that barb end with a needle valve. You could always email them and check on their thread sizing.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

What I liked about the palmer is that it had a secondary low pressure regulator. Imho, we need fairly consistant pressure to the needle valve to maintain a steady bubble count. On another paintball tank thread, others have questioned the paintball regulator's (stabilzer) ability to maintian constant pressure (to be honest I think that has been questioned on quite a few regulator threads as well). Using the low pressure regulator seems to be a very good solution to this problem (course not necessarily the cheepest solution)

As for 2 psi being low enough - I think needle valves are all but necessary (err, I am not using one at the moment...), regardless of what pressure we set the regulator at. Even 1psi difference will make a huge difference in bubble rate.

Anyway, the palmer stabilizer has gotten me all excited about this again – might just put one on my Christmas list (or annual bonus list as the case may be). I think a DIY versions of their beer regulator, starting with the stabilizer, then adding a pressure relief valve (about a 125 psi pop off valve – cheep end of tank dump insurance), a inexpensive low pressure regulator (a common pneumatic tool regulator), (not getting crazy here, but a solenoid and a bubble counter are options ), and a needle valve could make a seriously sweet system.


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## Thooshe (Dec 11, 2003)

Why not just use the Leland Regulator? It is the same one that the Amano systems use and is available in a paintball cylinder thread.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

Thooshe said:


> Why not just use the Leland Regulator? It is the same one that the Amano systems use and is available in a paintball cylinder thread.


Leland looks like the beer regulator I remember from years ago (it does look nice). I was not aware they made one for paintball cylinders (back in the day I asked my local homebrew shop - not that they are experts). Other potential issue is constant pressure (that is just based on threads complaining about other regulators)


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Do you guys see any issues with maybe getting an adapter made? I was talking to a friend the other day- and he had mentioned getting an adaptor made to fit the painball tank- and being able to use the normal regulators were are use to seeing.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

Check Sports Authority, they refill them there. 

Walmart does it too but not as much as SA.


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

Marc said:


> Do you guys see any issues with maybe getting an adapter made? I was talking to a friend the other day- and he had mentioned getting an adaptor made to fit the painball tank- and being able to use the normal regulators were are use to seeing.


The only issue I would be concerned with in that case would be the dreaded EOT (End Of Tank) dump if the pressure in the tank was not high enough to cause the regulator to work properly. If you decide to try it then take this safety precaution: Using a dry erase marker, mark off the needle position on the tank pressure regulator (of the two regulators it is the one registering the higher pressure). When you see the pressure drop below the mark you made, get your tank refilled or at least watch it carefully.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

you could solve the end of tank dump issue by putting some sort of pressure relief valve in the system. I think some better regulators already have one. If you had a low enough pop-off valve (say 40psi) on your output hose, it might do the trick (would put it before your needle valve). A pop-off valve would be cheep insurance and make life easier since you will be at end of tank fairly often (monthly?).

My current thought is a cheep paintball regulator that screws onto the bottle ($35 on ebay - not sure if they can regulate down to below 100 psi), a t-fitting. One side of the fitting going to a low presure regulator (cheep ones at harbor freight are about $8 - not sure if they are stable enough), then a needle valve - the other side with a 125psi pressure relief valve.

If it works - it would be pretty cheep ($60-$70 before bottle is my wag). Unfortunately there are sever low quality parts in there that might cause the whole thing to fail.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

The problem with using the paintball regulators is that they don't regulate below 300-400 psi. The operating pressure we are using is way lower at 10-25 psi or so.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

Held a Leland in my hand last night - very cool little regulator - the beer store sold disposably 75 gram cylinders for it - did no look like it would screw on to a paintball cyclinder. Talked with the store owner for a bit - he really did not think on was made that did.

Was not sure if the cheep paintball regulators would regulate below 100psi - but some on the palmer persuites site said they would. I was suspecting that below 100 psi they would not be overly consistant - especially since their beer regulator used a secondary low pressure regulator and also saw a second set up that was using a secondary regulator on their client custom pages.


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## Kyle (Jul 19, 2005)

As a paintball player, I can confirm that paintball regulators will probably not perform very well in the 10-25psi range, the operating pressure of most markers is much much higher.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

Kyle - I know very little about paintball regulators, except from bits and pieces I have read. Do you know if a paintball regulator (regular or a low pressure) could keep pressure somewhere inside a 50-100 psi range.


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## Kyle (Jul 19, 2005)

Most paintball markers that are considered "low pressure" typically set their high-pressure regulators from 150+ psi, and typically can handle pressure up to about 650psi. Internal regulators in paintball markers typically run at much lower operating pressure, ~80psi. 

I believe that a quality regulator should be able to maintain an output pressure in the 50-100psi range reliably, however I don't really know how easy it will be able to adjust precisely at that range.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Here's a question. Do the small 12 gram CO2 containers have the same high pressure that other tanks do? They make adapters for these is why I ask and they would be more "nanoesque."


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

The Leland I held used about a 4" cylinder. Regulator and Cylinder were about 2" round and 6-7" long. Very Nanoesque.


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## Kyle (Jul 19, 2005)

grandmasterofpool said:


> Here's a question. Do the small 12 gram CO2 containers have the same high pressure that other tanks do? They make adapters for these is why I ask and they would be more "nanoesque."


Sure, the guns don't operate at a lower pressure just because the co2 source is smaller. However, 12 gram co2 aren't threaded and therefore make it more difficult to maintain a good seal. Typically pump guns that take co2 carts aren't good for more than a few hours after being "charged" regardless of if you are actually firing the marker.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Kyle said:


> Sure, the guns don't operate at a lower pressure just because the co2 source is smaller. However, 12 gram co2 aren't threaded and therefore make it more difficult to maintain a good seal. Typically pump guns that take co2 carts aren't good for more than a few hours after being "charged" regardless of if you are actually firing the marker.


I figured as much regarding the pressure, however, they do make them with threaded tips too. The reason the air guns don't last long is that they are using the cylinders that work on a pressure seal i.e. are not threaded. I would think one could make the seal tight enough on the threaded ones to make it work.


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## Kyle (Jul 19, 2005)

Right, i was referring to the non-threaded twelve grams. If it was threaded it would last a while longer for sure.


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

Kyle said:


> Right, i was referring to the non-threaded twelve grams. If it was threaded it would last a while longer for sure.


Especially if you went to the trouble to T-tape the threads and put some sort of a gasket/O-ring at the seal.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Well after searching and speaking with other members from different boards. this is the best I've seenwith...i think its the best and simplest solution.
Its a 1.25# tank. Very small and can be filled anywhere.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The only problem with that is that it will most likely cost as much as a 5 lb tank to be filled.


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

Rex said:


> The only problem with that is that it will most likely cost as much as a 5 lb tank to be filled.


Yes but I think the aim here is more toward nanoism than frugalism :wink:


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## lamthuyduong (Aug 1, 2004)

where did you get the 1.25?


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Matak said:


> Yes but I think the aim here is more toward nanoism than frugalism :wink:


Yep exactly.

lamthuyduong- I haven't actually bought it yet. I'll be calling around soon to see where i can purchase one. I've seen a few on ebay -but i don't feel like paying 30 bucks for shipping when the tank sells for less than 20.


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## kenneth_kpe (Jan 25, 2005)

hi i thought this might be related, i didn't use a paintball co2 tank but a airgun co2 tank, the valve connecting the co2 tank to the aquarium enables me to control the flow to around 1 bubble every 4 seconds up to max flow

please dont mind my toes


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

Hmm, I would have guessed that an airgun and paintball gun cartridge would be the same. Who knew? 

Looks good. What brand of airgun is that from?


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## kenneth_kpe (Jan 25, 2005)

sadly i dont know, its locally made (by the company owned by a friend of mine) and the valvle too.. i think the only problem with using a paintball or airgun co2 tank is to source the valve that would enable you to use it for the aquarium.... and also the drop in pressure every now and then


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