# Plz Help me quickly make the right choices



## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

Hey everybody, I'm very new to this forum but I need some help. I recently aquired an eheim aquastyle 9 as a birthday present. The person who got it for me also needs me to supply them with a list of what I need for it... I'm not sure if there's a budget involved but I figure if there might be I could aim for higher quality and maybe get the less expensive items myself at a later time if need be. 

Alot of this seems like I would have to research for weeks and I only have about 4 days lol so, if anyone could help me speed up the process that would be appreciated. 

I would guess the first thing I would need to pick is the substrate system. I want one that's going to last a long time and keep my' plants fed. I want a tank with minimal maintenance and high performance and from what reading I've been doing - aquasoil looks like the choice.. I also want a natural looking beach area in my' scape ultimately, I've been reading articles and forum threads but I'm still uncertain. I could go with just using aquasoil but I want a layered and organic/mixed natural look if that makes anysense. I was thinking I could use aquasoil and then cap it with aquasoil mixed with some kind of decorative sand. Speaking of sand, I've seen some heaters you can line at the bottom of a tank, it's a cable and you put sand over it ...is that a better option than say, the kind you hang in the water? 

Also, are the additives "such as bacter?, iron. penac" are they worth getting? - I want my' plants to keep a nice green color "unless they're supposed to be red or something" I also want my' water to be absolutely crystal clear "as does everyone here I suppose lol" -- Help, complete total noob here. :fish1:


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

soil>sand>eco-complete, just for fun... 

heaters.... id get a shielded one with a small pump or an in-line with a canister.. if i got to pick and choose XD

what do you want to live in it?


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

steven p said:


> soil>sand>eco-complete, just for fun...
> 
> heaters.... id get a shielded one with a small pump or an in-line with a canister.. if i got to pick and choose XD
> 
> what do you want to live in it?


Could you give me examples? of the heaters you're talking about? And why soil sand and eco complete? lol


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## ddrfreak_tung (Sep 6, 2010)

well if budget isnt a problem then i'd go with aquasoil, but depending on how large your tank is it could get expensive, i dont suggest the undergravel heater, they could get annoying if something goes wrong and you have to remove it esp when your plants has rooted in it. 

If it was me and i had a choice in equipment, id ask for either a lighting fixture or a co2 unit, they're usually the most pricey item when it comes to the hobby.


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## inthepacific (Oct 21, 2012)

id say for me aquasoil is probably worth it if you want a really full lush tank. you wont have to worry too much about fertilizers. but it tanks longer to cycle i hear. i dont think capping aqua soil is really necessary. they have some lighter colored ones but the chemicals inside might be different im not actually sure. i know there is africana amazonia and one more and their colors are all different. soil obviously trumps because it gives good space for roots to grow and also feeds directly to roots. sand has no nutrients but has the ideal porosity for roots to grow. then the stuff you find in most regular aquariums the gravel stuff doesnt really do well for plants because its harder for them to root in. but you should tell us the size of tank you're working with. also what plants you're looking at and what fish you're looking at as well.


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

ddrfreak_tung said:


> well if budget isnt a problem then i'd go with aquasoil, but depending on how large your tank is it could get expensive, i dont suggest the undergravel heater, they could get annoying if something goes wrong and you have to remove it esp when your plants has rooted in it.
> 
> If it was me and i had a choice in equipment, id ask for either a lighting fixture or a co2 unit, they're usually the most pricey item when it comes to the hobby.


The eheim aquastyle 9 - Comes with an led fixture and filter.. here are it's specs... 

http://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/aquariums/nano-aquariums/aquastyle-35

I'm not sure how bright the light is as it's LED, uses 7 watts and so-on. I did a search on here and from what I've gathered, people seem inclined to say it's medium light approaching high. But I'm not sure... as for Co2, I'm not sure about budget either...but I think I'm going to skip out on that for now and just focus on getting the substrate right. I' need help with figuring out what I'll need for the water parameters too... Which products will give me the greatest advantages and so-on. Lets say from now on that the budget is around $100. The tank is only around 9 gallons and it's footprint is approx 12 inches by 12 inches and 14 inches tall..


For the heater I was looking at eheim's/jager? - it's the smallest one and only costs around $20. I figured I'd ask around about the cable one I could hide in the sand because it would help my' tank look less like it's got gear in it.. The filter this tank comes with I intend to obscure with tall plants "which I've not yet decided on yet."


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

inthepacific said:


> id say for me aquasoil is probably worth it if you want a really full lush tank. you wont have to worry too much about fertilizers. but it tanks longer to cycle i hear. i dont think capping aqua soil is really necessary. they have some lighter colored ones but the chemicals inside might be different im not actually sure. i know there is africana amazonia and one more and their colors are all different. soil obviously trumps because it gives good space for roots to grow and also feeds directly to roots. sand has no nutrients but has the ideal porosity for roots to grow. then the stuff you find in most regular aquariums the gravel stuff doesnt really do well for plants because its harder for them to root in. but you should tell us the size of tank you're working with. also what plants you're looking at and what fish you're looking at as well.


I think I might go with aquasoil but I like the look of the photos of planted tanks which use more than one layer visible and a little beach area... something about that seems more impressive, visually impacting to me.. I suppose because it brings the tank further away from the standard colored pebbles and treasure chest - and closer to nature itself.. -- If I get aquasoil I might get the finer granules but I don't want them to be so fine that it provides problems because the scape I want to do will have an incline/slope to it... not sure if it's the bigger granules that are ideal or the finer ones... - Anyway I just think mixing substrates and layering them tastefully looks better but I don't wanna do anything that'll potentially make me wish I hadn't in the long run. 

So, if I decide on mixing the aquasoil surface layer with something like pea gravel or turface or some sand or even a little bit of everything, it'll give me an idea of what size bag I should get and that will also help me to conserve costs and leave room for other important things. - The idea here being that I want to get things now that I won't regret later for not having. So that's why I'm focusing on the substrate and heater. 

I haven't decided what plants I want to use or what fish. The only thing I'm fairly certain is that the fish will likely be tropical and small, like neon tetras. I've been out to a local aquarium shop and the ones that caught my' eye were alot of the small shoaling fish. I'd like to get a school of fish with a playful, fun lighthearted nature and personality if possible. Small and very peaceful. - The plants I think I want to use will help me to get a look that reminds me kind of like a forest floor after a spring rain lol... with a few rocks, a little beach, and bedding of something with fine leaves that grow low like baby tears only perhaps something that doesn't demand such high lighting and looks similar... I seem to like round leaf plants like bacopa variations and penny wort. Later on I'll gather images of tanks with the kind of layout and vibe I like as well as photos of plants/names etc if that will help. I know that certain rocks and woods effect water parameters and I'd like to consider both but I'm a little apprehensive about buying either off the internet without personally selecting them myself for their' shape so I'll have to get out and find some myself at a later point perhaps.


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## inthepacific (Oct 21, 2012)

hmm i think i know what youre saying about the beach thing. you want it to be planted then have a bare foreground correct? also with the aquasoil, it only comes in one grain size i believe. ADA makes soil and they also have sand. the soil does look like little pebble things but these breakdown into a fine silty looking stuff. you could definitely layer the substrate if you wanted so give a nice visual effect for the tank but im not sure about the plants benefits since they do get the nutrients from the substrate.


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

inthepacific said:


> hmm i think i know what youre saying about the beach thing. you want it to be planted then have a bare foreground correct? also with the aquasoil, it only comes in one grain size i believe. ADA makes soil and they also have sand. the soil does look like little pebble things but these breakdown into a fine silty looking stuff. you could definitely layer the substrate if you wanted so give a nice visual effect for the tank but im not sure about the plants benefits since they do get the nutrients from the substrate.


I've seen online and I think on their' usa site that they now have three to choose from for aquasoil, "were talking ada right?" - regular, sand and mixed. - And yeah you got that right about the beach thing lol I want this tank to really play on positive and negative space with the positive, planted areas kinda in the corner and a bare little area for the fish to swim freely. I figure this layout kinda gives the fish both an open area and a little forest to retreat into when they get into fights and wanna runaway lol and it also creates an unconventional atmosphere and plays on the tallness of the tank. I think doing it this way helps to make the plants and fish pop out more and gives the tank an overall jewel-like presence if that makes sense... kinda like a bonsai does when it's done well... - As for nutrition I figure most of my substrate can be the aquasoil on the bottom, maybe the next layer is a thin mix with the same aquasoil but mixed in with some other gravel and perhaps some sand in colors that coordinate and increase the inert stuff like the sand and gravel as the beach/bank begins.. at which there will be few to no plants and just the gravel, some sand and small rocks. - At the end of it all I want a great looking tank that doesn't look like a first timer's planted tank... I don't want it to look like a withered, unkept backyard lol. I realize I've got alot of potential hazards and things to run into before I'm apt to achieve what I'm wanting but I'd like to skip as many of those potential pitfalls as possible right from the start... maybe it's possible lol. I'm essentially asking a "what would you do if you showed up in a time machine back when you first started and had a few minutes to talk to yourself lol"


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

I hope I didn't kill this thread...


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

Okay I've been looking around on the ada website and I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on what I would absolutely need for my' substrate system... As it currently goes I'm thinking since I have an eheim aquastyle 9 tank I could possibly just get a small 3 liter bag of amazonia and a small bag of power sand "not sure which yet" and forego the substrate additives or at least the super clear and bacter since from what I can tell: power sand contains both... can anyone provide some insight into this?


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## horsedude (Nov 10, 2012)

glassguppy said:


> Okay I've been looking around on the ada website and I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on what I would absolutely need for my' substrate system... As it currently goes I'm thinking since I have an eheim aquastyle 9 tank I could possibly just get a small 3 liter bag of amazonia and a small bag of power sand "not sure which yet" and forego the substrate additives or at least the super clear and bacter since from what I can tell: power sand contains both... can anyone provide some insight into this?


 Well i use amazonia aswell as some sand over the top and my tank is going great so far. i just use bacter its really good and just do what you want to do:smile:


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Hello, you still want the sandy area like a river bank yeah? ADA has some decorative sands to choose from:
http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=76_12_22

you know about the aquasoil types already it looks like. Yeah you can add a layer of power sand underneath the aquasoil for more nutrients and the added bacteria. actually you would probably be fine using straight aquasoil too.


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

Green_Flash said:


> Hello, you still want the sandy area like a river bank yeah? ADA has some decorative sands to choose from:
> http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=76_12_22
> 
> you know about the aquasoil types already it looks like. Yeah you can add a layer of power sand underneath the aquasoil for more nutrients and the added bacteria. actually you would probably be fine using straight aquasoil too.


Well what I want to know is if there are any particular advantages worth buying the bacter for example... especially if I get something like the power sand... I want my' water to be very clear as well and ada has products for that but if super clear is one of them and the power sand contains it and bacter, do I need to buy either? Also, I've been looking on ADA's site and have been wondering where they have a dechlorinator or if I even need anything like that with their' products.. If you were to compile a list of things you'd get based on what I've described so far, what would it be? Suggestions welcome definitely!


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## ddrfreak_tung (Sep 6, 2010)

use prime for a dechlor and yes you need to add a dechlor when you're adding new water. For clarity, i've kept many different substrates before and when it came down the how clear my water is, they all appeared the same. The only time it would change is if i added wood/peat, or something similar that would stain the water. Now of course when you disturb the substrate, the water will be cloudly but that's with most substrate and would clear up within hours. While the soil itself can play a big part in your success, other factors like light, co2, and the chemistry of your water is also important. People have had success using many things from ada soil to cat litter. Have you had issues with unclear water in the past?


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

ddrfreak_tung said:


> use prime for a dechlor and yes you need to add a dechlor when you're adding new water. For clarity, i've kept many different substrates before and when it came down the how clear my water is, they all appeared the same. The only time it would change is if i added wood/peat, or something similar that would stain the water. Now of course when you disturb the substrate, the water will be cloudly but that's with most substrate and would clear up within hours. While the soil itself can play a big part in your success, other factors like light, co2, and the chemistry of your water is also important. People have had success using many things from ada soil to cat litter. Have you had issues with unclear water in the past?


This will be my' very first planted tank, I've had an aquarium a couple times before but nothing serious. -- Prime? By what company? Seachem? I'm wanting to buy all of my' things from one store if possible to save on shipping costs. Are there any stores out there that sell ada besides the main website?


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## ddrfreak_tung (Sep 6, 2010)

the only store i've been to that sells ada stuff is in cali x.x other than that im not sure. For seachem prime, you can find that at petco =) its easy to find.


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

Can anyone tell me the difference between the power sands? i'm confused.. my' tank is only 14 inches high.. what does the S, L and M stand for on each of these different bags? It doesn't seem Ada says much about this on their' site.


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## ddrfreak_tung (Sep 6, 2010)

small, medium, and large size granules.


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

ddrfreak_tung said:


> small, medium, and large size granules.


I thought so, Any thoughts on the quality of power sand? compared to just buying bacter and super clear?


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## bacon5 (Jul 25, 2011)

I don't think that you really need power sand in my opinion. If you want a sandy look you can very cheaply get play sand from home depot, rinse it and it looks pretty much the same and is only a fraction of the price. Also as for water clarity, the best way to do this is 1) a strong filter 2)and weekly water changes. All these products to "clear" water really only hide the problem and don't really solve it. Hope this helps 

William


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

bacon5 said:


> I don't think that you really need power sand in my opinion. If you want a sandy look you can very cheaply get play sand from home depot, rinse it and it looks pretty much the same and is only a fraction of the price. Also as for water clarity, the best way to do this is 1) a strong filter 2)and weekly water changes. All these products to "clear" water really only hide the problem and don't really solve it. Hope this helps
> 
> William


I'm looking at power sand to place beneath my' amazonia substrate because it contains bacter 100 and super clear. I will also look into getting cosmetic sand but for the beach area of the tank I want to create. I have an eheim aquastyle 9, I think the filter should be good enough.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

glassguppy said:


> Well what I want to know is if there are any particular advantages worth buying the bacter for example... especially if I get something like the power sand... I want my' water to be very clear as well and ada has products for that but if super clear is one of them and the power sand contains it and bacter, do I need to buy either? Also, I've been looking on ADA's site and have been wondering where they have a dechlorinator or if I even need anything like that with their' products.. If you were to compile a list of things you'd get based on what I've described so far, what would it be? Suggestions welcome definitely!


I think you are aiming for something like this?









You are asking if the five elements ADA sells, if they really have an advantage over aquasoil? That is currently an active debate. A matter of personal choice. 

ADA makes a couple of dechlor they are called Rio Base, Chlor Off and Brighty K. Brighty K is also a fert. I gather you would need two of them to do something one bottle of Prime does. 

You asked for a list of what I would buy based on what you have said, well I would get these:

9L Aquasoil New Amazonia 
ADA Power Sand Special S (I would get this over the powders) 
La Plata Sand or Nile sand, smallest bag
5 lbs of Yamaya stone, request in order notes for smaller pieces for your river bank
Brighty K (you can use this for chlorine neutralization)


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## etane (May 14, 2012)

For clear water, put a bag of purigen in your filter.

Amazonia leaches ammonia and breaks down too easily for me. So, I use UP aquasoil and mix in some Amazonia directly into the areas where plants are planted. 

Also, this works for me as I choose not to use demanding plants nor CO2. So, I don't need to drown my plants with nutrients. If you get more demanding plants and choose to use CO2, then you might need to upgrade your light to something stronger. With my low tech set up, my LED is about 18 watts (18 x 1 watt diodes), and I wouldn't go lower than that for my 18 gallon.


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

Green_Flash said:


> I think you are aiming for something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What about iron or tourmaline? how do those play into things? - and how much powersand do you think I'd need for my' tank? - I'm just so overwhelmed and confused about what to get... It almost looks like I'll need everything just to keep a good tank but I know that can't be true.


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

etane said:


> For clear water, put a bag of purigen in your filter.
> 
> Amazonia leaches ammonia and breaks down too easily for me. So, I use UP aquasoil and mix in some Amazonia directly into the areas where plants are planted.
> 
> Also, this works for me as I choose not to use demanding plants nor CO2. So, I don't need to drown my plants with nutrients. If you get more demanding plants and choose to use CO2, then you might need to upgrade your light to something stronger. With my low tech set up, my LED is about 18 watts (18 x 1 watt diodes), and I wouldn't go lower than that for my 18 gallon.


Do you have any plant suggestions? I don't think I'll be using co2 and I don't want plants that are extremely demanding. Do you have any suggestions for plants that are kind of like baby tears? With fine little leaves and can carpet except that does okay in medium light and isn't demanding? And also, do you think Brighty K will be enough? I also want to make sure my' plants stay green and healthy.


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## etane (May 14, 2012)

glassguppy said:


> Do you have any plant suggestions? I don't think I'll be using co2 and I don't want plants that are extremely demanding. Do you have any suggestions for plants that are kind of like baby tears? With fine little leaves and can carpet except that does okay in medium light and isn't demanding? And also, do you think Brighty K will be enough? I also want to make sure my' plants stay green and healthy.


Do you like to prune? I don't, hence I stay away from aquarium lawns. But, if you don't mind mowing the lawn once in a while, e. parvula is rather low maintenance.

Can't tell you much about nutrients as I only use Flourish comprehensive. However, my guess is you don't need to buy any specialized nutrients if you go low tech.


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

ddrfreak_tung said:


> use prime for a dechlor and yes you need to add a dechlor when you're adding new water. For clarity, i've kept many different substrates before and when it came down the how clear my water is, they all appeared the same. The only time it would change is if i added wood/peat, or something similar that would stain the water. Now of course when you disturb the substrate, the water will be cloudly but that's with most substrate and would clear up within hours. While the soil itself can play a big part in your success, other factors like light, co2, and the chemistry of your water is also important. People have had success using many things from ada soil to cat litter. Have you had issues with unclear water in the past?


This is my' first planted tank, so no... - Someone suggested that I use Brighty K to dechlorinate my' water, do you think that would work as well as prime? See I'm just trying to figure out what kind of overall system to get, I don't want to possibly mix the wrong things and cause trouble...


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

glassguppy said:


> What about iron or tourmaline? how do those play into things? - and how much powersand do you think I'd need for my' tank? - I'm just so overwhelmed and confused about what to get... It almost looks like I'll need everything just to keep a good tank but I know that can't be true.


You will be perfectly fine using just plain aquasoil with zero additives. 
The 5 elements are just extra options. 

One bag of power sand S is plenty, it will leave you with quite a bit leftover I think. 

For more info on the additives check out these threads:
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...ght=tourmaline
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...ything-special
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...g-you-products


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

Green_Flash said:


> You will be perfectly fine using just plain aquasoil with zero additives.
> The 5 elements are just extra options.
> 
> One bag of power sand S is plenty, it will leave you with quite a bit leftover I think.
> ...


OMG thank you! -- So would I be good just getting aquasoil, cosmetic sands and maybe Brighty K? I'm trying to come up with a final list of everything I'll need for my' tank. Basically the stuff one'll want to get from the start, very few frills and just what is very useful and good to have... and then some things which will not be used as often perhaps, but are essential, like a water testing kit or indicator thingy.. 

So far my' list looks like this:
Aquasoil -9 liter
Cosmetic sand(s)
Eheim/Jager water heater
Brighty K / Seachem prime "still not sure about which one to get." 
Some stones/wood "haven't looked into this yet but want to." 
-Anything that'll keep my' plants green and water clear lol
-Something to catch/trap livestock 

Guys am I missing anything obvious here? I see tweezers and stuff like that for sale too....I can only see myself getting pruning scissors though, what do you think? 
I'm a beginner but I just really want the best possible results as possible at a low cost... I don't think I could afford any sort of Co2 system right now but I'd like that if in reality I don't actually need alot of the other chemicals etc out there... It's just incredibly hard to be certain with all of this marketing going on lol... I want to have my' list of supplies ready by Thursday this week if possible.


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## ddrfreak_tung (Sep 6, 2010)

keep in mind that this might not turn out the way you want it to. We all envision something big and spectacular as our first venture into many things only to find out our expectations was too high. I started keeping fish in the 7th grade and it took me about 5 years to figure out what i was doing wrong...granted it was the pre internet age for me. But there's certain things that you will only learn from trial and errors. Know that even with the best of the best, there has to be an understanding of how everything works to successfully recreate an environment and balance nature. im sure some will disagree but that's just from my own experience.

For me, i'd go with prime over brighty k. When it comes to dosing, read up on dry ferts, its cheaper. As far as keeping the water clear and plants green, water is easy to keep clear. Have sufficient filtration, feed sparingly, reg water changes ect. For the keeping of the plants green, that's why this forums exist. DO NOT get discourage if anything goes wrong. There's many of us on here struggling with keeping the plants green and not have an algae infested aquarium. 

From that list you posted, not sure if you've purchased a light yet but i didnt see you list it =).


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## glassguppy (Nov 2, 2012)

ddrfreak_tung said:


> keep in mind that this might not turn out the way you want it to. We all envision something big and spectacular as our first venture into many things only to find out our expectations was too high. I started keeping fish in the 7th grade and it took me about 5 years to figure out what i was doing wrong...granted it was the pre internet age for me. But there's certain things that you will only learn from trial and errors. Know that even with the best of the best, there has to be an understanding of how everything works to successfully recreate an environment and balance nature. im sure some will disagree but that's just from my own experience.
> 
> For me, i'd go with prime over brighty k. When it comes to dosing, read up on dry ferts, its cheaper. As far as keeping the water clear and plants green, water is easy to keep clear. Have sufficient filtration, feed sparingly, reg water changes ect. For the keeping of the plants green, that's why this forums exist. DO NOT get discourage if anything goes wrong. There's many of us on here struggling with keeping the plants green and not have an algae infested aquarium.
> 
> From that list you posted, not sure if you've purchased a light yet but i didnt see you list it =).


My' eheim aquastyle 9 comes with a 7watt led light fixture which seems bright to me but I'm not sure how much it is in fact. I've heard it's about 1200 lumens, or medium brightness... I'm not sure though, and the filter is an eheim too, it's a corner unit, google the aquastyle 9 for something of a reference lol. -- If I go with dry fertilizer would this be something I'd have to put in the substrate or could I just crush it up and mix it in a bottle with water and dose the tank? 
-- I'm not expecting a perfect tank as my' first, what I'm wanting is the best possible result right from the start with alot of the "wish I had done that first" eliminated right from the start... I don't want to waste time on something someone out there could've just told me right from the beginning... I need advice that is pretty much tried and true and over time I'll keep coming on here to read and further my' knowlege... I just want the best possible beginner's position on things.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Yeah that list looks fine, there are three types of aquasoil, amazonia, africana, and malaya. each representing one of the worlds three major rainforests. each has a different color/property. 

also there is normal grain and powder grain. the powder grain i think looks better and is easier to plant in. 

when you fill the tank use a bowl/plate or wax paper to gently poor water.

I would go with Seachem Prime as an all purpose water conditioner. you can't go wrong there. 

I also highly recommend a pair of pinsettes for planting the plants.

i also wouldn't worry about any chemicals out there you mentioned, keeping it simple is best. since your doing low tech. if you were doing high tech the only things I would dose would be NPK + Micros (EI index) dry ferts.

finally here is a link for excellent low light beginner plants here on TPT:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56042


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