# My 20g has a new owner, so RIP journal



## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

About 6months ago (~nov 2007) I decided it was time to take my 20 gallon out of the plastic and into the planted realm. I decided I wanted to make the tank look a little more sophisticated and figured I could either purchase all new silk and plastic plants, or spend the money on live plants, something I'd always wanted to try. I was also having trouble with water quality (WQ) and was losing fish due to a worn out bubbler that was no longer passing enoguh water through the small filter. So it was time to upgrade the whole system. Here is a photo journey from the start until now, and I will try to update regularly from here on out (this 20 gallon journal took a backseat to my 5 gallon tank which i started from scratch)...I hope you enjoy, and thanks for looking! Also...any suggestions are welcome!

Tank Specs: 
20 gallon High tank 
Regular aquarium gravel substrate
Marineland Penguin 100 Bio-Wheel HOB filter
18" 15watt fluorescent bulb 

Flora: 
Crypt spiralis
Crypt wendtii red and/or bronze
Crypt wendtii v. 'tropica'
Guppy grass
Sunset Hygro 
large Anubias (sp.?)
Anubias (on driftwood)

Fauna:
1 female Betta
5 glolight tetras
7 neon tetras
5 zebra danios
2 endlers
1 clown pleco
3 Otos
3 amano shrimp

My 20 gallon before "renovations" began:


















After preliminary renovations:


















And moving into more renovations as the new filter began doing it's job and my WQ and tank had restabilized...

January:









February:









March:







*







 Play by FoxSaver®

**







 Play by FoxSaver®

*


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And some of the inhabitants of my 20gallon: 

Lady Bettas (2 of the 3):


















The 1 baby guppy survivor (he figured out how to hide out from the other fish and get enough food to grow!):









and my Gourami:









Of course there's more, but these are the ones who have "sat still" long enough for me to get half-decent shots of them!


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## Ozymandias (Jan 17, 2008)

really all I have to say it you might consider going for new substrate. other wise it looks pretty good. by the way what are the specs for the tank (equipment, plants and fish)


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks, yeah, I'd love to change the substrate....i worry about upsetting the delicate balance of the tank that I finally got restabilized by switching out all of the substrate....maybe one day though. I did add the black in, so i like it at least a little better now than when it was all blue and purple  Perhaps I'll take out half of what's in there and add more black (which i have on hand anyway) and slowly weed out the blue and purple that way. Of course that means pulling out all the plants and re-planting.....so maybe i'll wait until i'm sick of how the plants look and want to rearrange them  

I've added the tank specs in an edit to the original post


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just wanted to post some updated pictures of my 20g. I think it's growing in pretty well, I added some more Crypt spiralis (sp?) in the back and moved around some of the older spiralis toward the back and over a little. Let me know what you think, and enjoy!

My 20g without a flash using a couple different settings:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

20g Update!  It's getting a bit jungle-y on the left side, but i think the Crypt Spiralis (sp?) is growing in nicely in the middle (it's only been ~3weeks) 

Here's a couple very similar pictures, I was wondering which lighting you think looks best in the pictures? (it's just different settings on the camera). 

Let me know what you think about the tank and the camera settings or anything else!!!  thanks, and enjoy!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

substrate could be better, but i LOVE the shadow the wood gives off.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! I like the shadow as well!  and yes, i know the substrate isn't the best, i worked with what i had, ah well...i was hoping when I added the black that it would cover more of the purple and blue, but alas, not so.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It's coming along really well, the plants look nice and healthy  

I think the crypt is C. balansae?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

lauraleellbp - thanks so much, it sure has come along way and i'm so glad I can share it with everyone on the forum!  And it certainly could be C. balansae, it said spiralis on the glass at the fish store, but that doesn't mean they're definitely right


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I was away for 3 days last weekend and my roommate accidentally left my fish tank lights on the whole time and unfortunately there was a lot of plant die-off in my 5g, BUT my 20g apparently had enough nutrients to sustain the extra growth from the added light and they grew like crazy! My crypt spiralis (or balansae) was pearling like mad when I got home. My large anubias (i realized it's probably an anubias and not a large crypt wendtii) in the front grew a whole large new leaf in the past week! 

Here's a couple new pics of the tank: 


















Would it look better if I pulled out the purple cabomba and moved the large anubias to the corner where the cabomba is now?
Here's a close-up of that corner:










And I finally got a clear and decent picture of the blue female betta: 










Any input, feedback, questions, comments, or concerns would be great!


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## Jimbo205 (Oct 12, 2006)

I think the substrate is fine. I like bright colors. Which is why I like freshwater plants and fish. :smile:

With the HOB with the Bio-wheel have you considered replacing the O2 in the bubbler with DIY CO2? (airline hose, 2 soda bottles, bread yeast, sugar, baking soda, etc.)
So long as you always have the filter on, the CO2 should do great for both the plants and the fish. Just an idea.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I have probably 75lbs of SMS Charcoal. Let me see if I can find it. If so, I will send you enough for that tank in flat rate boxes. You only pay shipping. IF you promise to get rid of that gravel.

Let me see if I can find it.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Jimbo - thanks, i liked the bright colors before, but they just don't seem to fit anymore with the more natural look of the live plants IMO As for CO2, i don't think I have enough light to warrant CO2, nor the space to set it up, and mostly I want to keep the tank low tech. But if I ever get more ambitious, it's not a bad idea. Thanks for the thought 

fshfanatic - if I can mail the flat rate boxes to you, i'd take that! (I don't have paypal) Though I must admit I'm not exactly sure what SMS charcoal is....i'd assume a solid black plant-friendly substrate?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It's more a dark gray, and it's very lightweight- but good for promoting root growth.

I'd worry a little that your cory cats might keep it stirred up, though?


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Let me see if I can find it first. I havent had a chance to look yet. I will in the morning after I drink a couple beers in honor of fallen American heroes. 

Type in SMS in the search. You will get 100's of threads to read.

Great stuff..

LL - I havent had an issue with anything really kicking it up after it settles and you get some root growth.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

fshfanatic said:


> LL - I havent had an issue with anything really kicking it up after it settles and you get some root growth.


You'd know better than me, I've never used it to date. I do laugh and think about Fishaholic complaining about it being "stirred up by pleco farts" though :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sounds good, no rush because I've got some serious fixin' to do in my 5g. 

LL - the cories are in the 5g, so that shouldn't be too big of a problem  HOWEVER i have been considering cories to add to the tank since I lost the platys, though I was also thinking about adding a few more tetras (neon and/or glolights), haven't decided which but I have to make sure all the parameters are good and everyone continues looking healthy before I add anyone else


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well, despite the poor health and subsequent passing of my 3 platys, the 20g and it's inhabitants are doing wonderfully. So i think it is time to replace some of my fauna. The question is, who do i add? The current inhabitants are as follows: 3 female bettas, 3 zebra danios, 3 glo light tetras, 3 neon tetras, 1 femlare guppy, 1 clown Pleco. Previous inhabitants included a Dwarf Blue Gourami and the platys, as well as other guppies, male guppies tend not to do as well, i think they get picked on by the female bettas.

I was thinking of getting another female guppy to keep the one i have company (perhaps this isn't necessary?) And either a few more Neons and/or Glolights, OR a trio of cories? Though i hear they do better in larger numbers, but I'm not sure I have room for too many?

Any and all thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated! Other stocking ideas welcome as well!


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> You'd know better than me, I've never used it to date. I do laugh and think about Fishaholic complaining about it being "stirred up by pleco farts" though :hihi:


Everything gets stirred up by pleco farts. 

I think I know where I put the stuff. Just have to clear a path to it in the storage room.. I will try to get to it today.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks, I appreciate it! Like I said though, no rush. My 5g needs some help before I start dealing with changing out substrate on my 20g. I need to rearrange some plants in the 20, so I'll do that when I get rid of the brightly colored substrate. The only thing I'm a little worried about after reading about SMS is that it lowers the pH, but I have malaysian driftwood in the tank that is doing a fine job of lowering the pH already (my tap is ~8, tank is running around ~6 now with the driftwood). I don't want to start messing with chemicals to raise the pH, but I do have Aragonite (crushed coral) that I could add to raise/buffer the pH i suppose?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So I finally took pictures of my "mystery plants" I wanted to get some opinions as to what they are, so here goes: 

Crypt or Anubias?
Top:









Bottom:









Crypt Balansae? (sp?) Spiralis? Something else?
Top:









Bottom:









What do we think?

Also, I went to my LFS this evening and i decided to go with a few more Neons and a few more Glolights. They're drip-acclimating now


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## BigB (Oct 14, 2005)

first one is a anubias looks like a batari,

you can tell by the rhizome on it


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! I thought Abubias too, though not sure what kind 

And I think maybe the "grass" is in fact Crypt Spiralis and that it wasn't mislabeled, i looked up pictures and many of the leaves do have the characteristic waves, and are more flowy and long than the pictures of Balansae appear to be. I'd be open to other ideas though!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well, it was a sad night last night, I lost one of my female bettas I'm thinking it could have been the heat. I tried leaving the lights off for most of the day to try and keep the temp down, but it's just been SO hot recently. I discovered her pretty late last night, so tank parameter check will be the first thing I do when I get home, though ever since the addition of the Crushed Coral and the frequent water changes, the parameters have been quite stable. I hope it wasn't the addition of the crushed coral and subsequent raising of the pH, though i realize that's a possibility. I'd have to think that the drop from 7.2 down to 5 in less than 24hrs during bi-weekly water changes would have been more stressful though, and she's been doing well. Keeping my fingers crossed that everyone else is still happy and healthy when I get home...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok, my tank parameters have been nice and stable for over a week now. pH is running at a steady 7.2 (instead of under 6), my GH is stable at about 8, my KH is staying up around 2.5 (on the low side, i know), ammonia 0, nitrIte 0, nitrAte ~15. Aside from losing one of the female Bettas (who had no obvious signs of disease) everyone else is still happy and healthy. I added a trio of Otos at the end of last week to the tank to help rid the slower growing broad leaved plants (the 2 anubias species) of their bits of algae. They're all doing reallly well and they're super active! So that's fun and good. I'm going to leave well enough alone for a little longer I think, and then add some hardscape and do some minor plant rearranging once i've thoroughly scrubbed and soaked the rocks and wood i collected today.....so many projects! But everyone needs hobbies to stay sane I think


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I rescaped the 20g today  I tied some moss to the driftwood and added some e. tennellus, in 2 sizes (thanks for all the new plants to maclellan!) I removed the struggling cabomba, moved the wisteria to the right corner, the moss-covered driftwood to the left, moved the small red Crypt Wendtii over with the driftwood so it's still in it's cozy crook, put the larger tennellus to the left of the driftwood, the smaller ones along the bottom (these may get moved to the 5g). Oh and moved the Anubias nana petite from behind the piece that sticks out of the driftwood, to on / in front of it. Here's a bunch of pictures: 

Full tank shots:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Close up of the driftwood with moss: 


















Close up of the small red crypt wendtii / center of the tank:









And some decent shots of my neons / right side of the tank:


















As always, i'd love feedback! Yes, i know the substrate is a bit unsightly, but any and all feedback is welcome. Things to change? keep? remove? 

I'm thinking it needs some more hardscape on the right side...thoughts?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looking better and better all the time! :thumbsup:


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## mybrotherdarrell (May 28, 2008)

I agree with lauralee - this tank is looking very nice.

There are a couple things I would do
- get some different colored plants - it may look different in person, but the plants all seem to be bright green and kind of monotonous. I'd like to see a reddish/orangish plant break up the background.
-The driftwood looks nice with the java fern. I'd move it over toward the center just a little bit. Then the big mass will be more centered and broken up by your crypt(?).
-Change substrate (but kudos to you for growing such nice plants in hot pink gravel) 

I think your tank looks very nice, and these are just nit-picky things to think about.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Lauralee - thanks so much fo the encouragement! I really appreciate the positive feedback! 

mybrotherdarrell - Thanks! I agree with you about the different colors, I think part of the issue is my light, i recently bought a new bulb but it's 5k and it makes everything VERY BRIGHT green. Also, the wpg is SO low in this tank, i'm not sure any of the redder plants would grow? it's only .75wpg, i'm still shocked that anything grows at all, let alone so well! I have to prune this sucker all the time! (part of the reason i haven't to change my substrate....something magical must be happening with the hot pink, and thanks for the kudos on growing in that btw ) I would be open to suggestions for LOW-light red/orange plants though. I could dose iron if that would help? I suppose i could always get more red crypt too...and yes, i think i will move the driftwood back more toward the center, at least until I get more hardscape for the other side, there are no Java Ferns in there though, so i'm not sure if you meant the small red crypt wendtii? or the small anubias? (in relation to the driftwood). 

Thanks for the input, more is always welcome!


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## fishbguy1 (Feb 29, 2008)

For lowlight red plants, I always had good luck with just red/bronze crypts.

Also, rotala indica did pretty well for me, except that it wasn't very red.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the input! I was thinking more red crypts too. I could loko into the rotala, it doesn't have to be VERY any color...as long as it's a bit of a different color than all of my other very grass green plants. I think a big part of this is my bulb too...I think i'm going to have to get another one and see how it looks then too  Thanks again!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Got a REALLY nice, large, red crypt Wendtii from my LFS today! The ones they had in the "for sale" plant display tanks were kind eh, short, rather green, but they had some in the fish display tanks that were MUCH nicer, and the guy was really nice and gave me one of those instead  He looked at the display ones and said "yeah, i can see why you'd rather have one of the other ones, let's do that" They had Crypt retrospiralis which was also cool, and reddish, but i decided i had enough tall grass-like plants. Now i'm thinking it might look cool mixed in with the Crypt spiralis. 

I'll post pics again once i've decided where to put the new guy


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok, here's the updated re-rescape with some a new red crypt. Looked amazing in store, put it in my tank, took some pics....everything still looked pretty green: 









Different camera setting:









Close up:









another setting/close up:








Better....not great..

And then I decided to swap the new light with the 5000 rating out for the old one that came with the tank 

And Voila: 









You can see the red in the red crypts:









I think it's very pretty:









I think it definitely needed the extra color provided by the plant itself, but I think the bulb made a huge difference too. 

Still not sure I love the scape...i think the Tennellus is getting lost in the Crypt spiralis grove. I might move it to my 5g. And I need to move the large crypt (the new one) slightly more to the right I think.

Any comments, thoughts,questions, critiques are more than welcome! And i'm thinking I'd still maybe like a Nymphea lotus for the front right (i think they stay relatively low?) And i know....substrate color does not fit with the rest of the 'scape


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i like the spiralis jungle. and your wisteria is looking great! mines turning brown on the tips  the lotus sounds like a great idea, but "low" hygro is an interesting fore/mid ground plant. and i still like your gravel, its unique


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! I love my spiralis jungle too, I just think the Tennellus gets lost in it (it's not only hard to distinguish the 2 in the picture). The spiralis does look better in person though....i think it's the angle...i should really try to get a tripod. But anyway.....yeah....Wisteria grows like a MADMAN in my tanks, it grows and grows....i feel like i'm trimming it back every few days! I bought 1 bunch i think of like 5 stems 6 months ago for my 5g, had an extra stem or something, threw the extra in the 20 and POW. And then when everything in my 5 died due to 72 hours constant light, i had MORE than enough in the 20 and stole some back to replant the 5. I don't know what my secret is though, so don't ask  I'm not familiar with "low" hygro, i'll have to look it up! thanks! and thanks for the gravel compliment too


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Got a few good shots of the cories (still in their QT tank, but they'll be going in the 20g so I thought i'd switch to talking about them over here....for the background and more pics see this thread ) 

Couple good close-ups of one little guy who was posing 
First one with the wrong light-correction setting: 









And with the proper light correction setting: 









And a pile' o ' cories :-D:









Every time i look at these little guys i can't get over how tiny they are, i just love them!!! So far all 10 are doing well  I hope it's not too much for my bio-load to add all 10, they're SO TINY right now that I think it should be ok for the moment, and by the time they get bigger (if that ever happens ) i should have another tank up and running so i can move half of them over to that one


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but that bubble wall at the back of the tank will drive off the CO2 the plants need.

But otherwise, nice looking tankroud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hey, thanks! I need to post new pictures but it's in a bit of disarray at the moment...got a bunch of new plants from the SNS here, but haven't had time to properly scape! 

Anyway, actually, because I don't inject CO2 the bubble wall actually helps increase my CO2 because of the surface turbulence it creates which allows more air to get absorbed because the CO2 concentration in the air is higher than in the water and it will try to reach equilibrium (if i remember my chem correctly) but when people inject CO2 the concentration in the tank becomes higher than that in the air so you want to minimize surface turbulence to basically try and prevent equilibrium from being met....I think I got that right 

But thanks!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Karackle said:


> Anyway, actually, because I don't inject CO2 the bubble wall actually helps increase my CO2 because of the surface turbulence it creates which allows more air to get absorbed because the CO2 concentration in the air is higher than in the water and it will try to reach equilibrium (if i remember my chem correctly) but when people inject CO2 the concentration in the tank becomes higher than that in the air so you want to minimize surface turbulence to basically try and prevent equilibrium from being met....I think I got that right


Run on sentence much?:hihi:

What happened to the cute Pygmy Cories in the pics you posted? Are they in the tank yet?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha just a bit  

Alas, no, the cories are not in the tank. There are a few that didn't make it in their QT tank when I went away for a long weekend (the filter was not bubbling when i got home even though the air pump was working...sigh...) but those that are left are patiently waiting to go in the 30g that i will be setting up either this week or next


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

It's been a while since I updated about this tank, it's looking a bit sparse at the moment but once I do some rearranging tonight I'll take pictures and post them. I still need to change out the substrate on this tank....but one thing at a time. I need to finish getting the 30 together (which includes more lighting), and then I need to get a new (bigger) home for my Crested Gecko, and then new substrate...unless I find some really cheap somewhere before the rest. 

And I wonder why i have no $$  Ah well....at least I spend it on things that I can enjoy for a long time!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*Update 8/11/08*

Well a bunch of the stuff I was trying didn't work so well in this tank, so we're back down to basics. I gave away a lot of my Crypt Spiralis but it's still pretty full. Moss is finally starting to grow out nice and green on the DW, stole a bunch of it for the DW in the new tank but it's still pretty full. I need something else in this tank....something that will do better than the Wisteria is fairing in that far dark corner. I'm thinking a large anubias or crypt wendtii green.....any thought on the 'scape in here would be GREATLY appreciated. 

Sorry about the blurry pics....



















As always, any and all input welcome and appreciated!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe you could grow a monster Java Fern back there


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I've never had luck with Java ferns actually...they just....get brown on me....is that weird or what? and yes, i've attached them to drift wood. Maybe it's time to try again, i need SOMETHING there that will grow in what essentially amounts to shade.

looking at the pictures again, i think i need something in the middle/front left corner as well....that's a large empty space isn't it? I don't think i like it....


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I finally rescaped the 20g, it's only minor changes, but it's not looking so scrappy anymore! :hihi:

Just wanted to post a couple quick pictures, I'll try to take some better ones later once it settles in a little more

Also I finally changed out the very green bulb for a 6500k  It looks LOADS better!



















I'd love any input!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

quick updated FTS, not too much change, but I like how it looks, this tank has become very simple and I like it  

Oh and I took the zebra danios and put 1 female guppy and a few female Endlers in this tank. Zebras are in the 30g.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm thinking of making this into a crypts only tank (other than the moss on the DW). For whatever reason Crypts grow REALLY well in this tank, even the crypt spiralis in the dark corner is growing well! I put in 2 tiny baby crypts at the bottom that I thought for sure would melt away and never come back with such low light, but to my surprise and delight, the leaves never melted and the little fellas are growing quite well! 
The Wisteria is not bouncing back as I hoped it would and the large anubias feels out of place so I'm thinking I'll remove those and replace them with a few new kinds of crypts. Maybe some Wendtii green (I only have Bronze in there at the moment, possibly some red) Maybe try Retrospiralis again and/or Balansae. 
The Anubias on the DW is not growing as well as I had hoped so I think I might more it to my 30g and get rid of some of the Java moss in there. 

I'd love input and suggestions! 

Thanks!


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## lushlife (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey karackle, the tank is looking great!! 

Honestly, the only thing I would change is the substrate, but of course, that can be quite a hassle. Whats your background?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

lushlife - Thanks! I appreciate that a lot!  Yes I know the substrate isn't the greatest, hahaha, but yes, a hassle to change. I'll get to that eventually though, i think i want to spend $$ on better lighting for my 30g first though :tongue: My background is just black.

I'd like to get a lower growing crypt for the right side, get rid of the Wisteria (which is doing so poorly it's hard to even see in the picture). I suppose it all depends on what I can find though


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just a few updated tank shots, I can't believe how much the moss has grown!  



















Is this Java moss? sorry for the crappy picture quality, best I could get at the right angle


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I _think_ that's Taiwan moss, not Java. Java tends to be a little more stringy... www.AquaMoss.net would be a good place to look, though.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I was thinking it might not be java....there's some darker green stringier moss that seems to grow a little here and there everywhere in the tank that I was thinking was Java which would make the stuff on the rock...well....no java :tongue: 

thanks for the input!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

which anubias is that on the wood?


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

lauraleellbp said:


> I _think_ that's Taiwan moss, not Java. Java tends to be a little more stringy... www.AquaMoss.net would be a good place to look, though.


I think she is right, looks like Taiwan to me as well. It may be java though.

Nice tank, even the clown puke doesn't look tooo too bad.

-Andrew


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

@[email protected] - it's a nana petite I believe....unless you mean the really large one which is actually behind the wood....i forget at the moment but i can find out  

A Hill - Thanks for the input on the moss, and especially for the compliment!  Yes, I know, the gravel ("clown puke") needs to go, it's in the works. I need to find some schultz aquatic soil (or something else inexpensive) for the bottom layer and I'll layer some dark brown gravel I'll layer on top.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

must be the one behind the wood. could you please find out for me?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

@[email protected] - It's Anubias congensis if the long leaved one is the one you're talking about 
http://www.aquapage.eu/Plants.php?hledani=LAT&detail=73


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks, karackle. i really like it, its a good background plant.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! I liked it a lot too when I saw it at my LFS and I'm very pleased with how it looks in the tank, glad to hear someone else thinks so too!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*Ack! Fungus!*

All of a sudden about 2 days ago i noticed my female guppy was covered in fungus, which is weird because a day or two before i noticed the fungus I was looking at her and how healthy she looked and how bright her tail was! But then BOOM she had lots of fungus and was looking thin! Of course I immediately pulled her bound for QT and then checked for signs of fungus on anyone else. I found a little bit on one of the glolight tetras so I scooped him out as well. I put them in a small QT tank with a small dose of salt and pimafix. yesterday morning they were looking better, when I got home from work yesterday evening they look far worse and last night the guppy was dead. The tetra is still hanging in and was looking better this morning. I dread coming home from work today though. So far no signs of fungus on anyone else. I'm debating whether or not to do a preventative pimafix dose on the main tank or not? Thoughts?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well...the female guppy didn't make it, she was looking better the morning after I found her with fungus, worse when I got home from work and died that evening. 

The glowlight, on the other hand, is a trooper. He's still in QT but the fungus is receding. There's a little bit on one fin that is being stubborn, but hopefully a water change and some fresh salt and pimafix today will fix that. 

I finally found some schultz aquatic soil that I plan to use in this tank, I'll cap it with some nice dark brown aquarium gravel and of course seed the whole thing with mulm. I just need to find time to do it now :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So i've got a little bit of hair algae growing on the top of my heater, I hear amano shrimp will eat hair algae, I'm wondering if I should pick up a couple to keep permanently in this tank? Or should I pull the ones from my 30 and throw them in my 20 for a little while to clean up? I figure the shrimp are big enough that my Betta girls won't be a threat to it, but I'm a little worried there's not enough hiding places for when they molt so I don't know if they'd do well permanently? any input would be great, thanks!


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

I would keep a few in this tank permanently...as they will eat any algae that comes up in the long run. 

Oh, and unlike everyone else, I like the clown puke gravel!


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

Just read your thread. I'm waiting to see it with the new gravel. I think it will be an amazing difference. What ends up happening is that your eyes are drawn the the plants and fish instead of the substrate. 

I wonder if you were having trouble with your wisteria because you needed more fertilizer. Do you use root tabs? You don't have a lot of fish so I don't think that's enough nutrients from the fish. It affected the wisteria first because it's a fast grower and so requires more nutrients.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

demon - I think you're right that I should get a few permanent shrimp for algae control. I'm going to wait I think until I redo the substrate and get some more plants in there so the shrimp have somewhere to hide when they molt. And thanks for the compliments on the gravel, someone else likes it too. But I agree with TexGal that it draws your attention away from the plants and fish. 

TexGal - thanks! Changing the substrate is on the top of my priority list as soon as I get my final paper done, it'll be a nice break for me (my friends think I'm crazy for finding it relaxing and "a nice break" to put a lot of time in to cleaning or redoing a tank, but I'm banking on you all on here to understand it ) And seeing it with the less distracting gravel will be a great end-of-semester reward, and it'll give me something a little more eye-pleasing to look at when I need a grad school application writing break :tongue: It's going to be a busy month, i can use all the excuses to take a break i can find! :hihi: Hmmm....you might be right about the lack of fertilizer, I am terrible about remembering to add ferts, my plants have generally done so well without them that I haven't had my butt kicked but a total plant die-off to make me be more diligent about dosing ferts at disciplined intervals. That's interesting that you say I don't have many fish though....here I was thinking I was pretty close to or at my stocking limit. Perhaps the addition of a few more tetras? One of my female bettas is starting to show signs of her age, I was going to wait to add any more fish but maybe a little bit more "natural fertilizer" will help as well me trying to dose more often? 

I'd be open to lots of opinions on my stocking and whether I am close to or at my limit or have room for a few more fish to fertilize my plants. 

Thanks!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well, I haven't changed the substrate yet BUT I did add 3 amano shrimp yesterday (hope they made it through the ~12h power outtage!) I also added some Sunset Hygro and guppy grass from LauraLeeLLBP to see if I can fill in the back a little more. Will take pictures later


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Minor update, I got pictures of the sunset hygro and guppy grass that I recently planted in the 20g, unfortunately though the shrimp were hiding so I couldn't snap a shot of them.

I apologize for the picture quality, i should have cleaned the glass but I think the lens is dirty too or I had the wrong settings turned on because the pictures aren't their usual good quality regardless of the dirty tank glass. 

FTSs:


















Closer of new plants (slightly overexposed due to editing):









And a really blurry from the top picture of the plants. I'll try to take another one after I update my other journals using a flash. 









I apologize for the overall messy look of this tank, it's in serious need of some TLC, it's taken a back seat to my other tanks as it's always been stable so I've been paying less attention to it. It's starting to get some algae and less than ideal growth on the Crypt spiralis so I need to give this baby some love. It's high time to swap out the gravel.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I came home after a week away and I'm happy to report that other than needing a topoff, the tank looks great! I think the crypts sprouted new leaves and the moss is starting to fill back in. I'm not sure there is enough light in here for the sunset hygro, but i'll give it time to see if it's just adjusting still. Some of the leaves that were on the stems when I first planted them are looking a little beaten, but I _think_ there is some new growth on the tops so we'll see how it does


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just wanted to post a couple of quick shots I grabbed tonight, nothing big, looks pretty much the same but the the crypt spiralis is sprouting new leaves again finally  And the guppy grass is growing 

FTS you can see the one long stalk of guppy grass growing in the spiralis









And it's a really crappy pic, but the guppy grass made some offshoots near the substrate and they're starting to grow up, just not above the DW in the FTS yet


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I updated all of my other threads with pictures, but not much has changed in this tank since the last update so I didn't snap any pictures of it this time. The only thing that's changed is there is another visible sprig of guppy grass above the DW. Other than that the only thing different is the bottom is getting a little scuzzy and ready for a gravel vac :tongue: (the clown pleco makes saw dust :hihi


In other news though, I'd like to add a few more fish to this tank I think. I've taken out all but the 2 smallest female endlers to go into my breeding project tank, I've lost a tetra here and there, and one of my female bettas is not doing too well and I might need to euthanize her soon. But I want to make sure the plants still have enough fertilizer since I mostly rely on what the fish provide for fertilization  

I'd love input! and any other questions/comments/concerns are always appreciated


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

OMG! I'm sorry about your fish. If nothing else...atleast it makes it easier to redo the aquarium when it's time. I wouldn't buy any more fish untill you get it redone with the new substrate and it cycles.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks, it's really just the one betta that is saddening, the rest were either simply moved or had been in the tank a long long time. There's still lots of fish in there. 

I'm not too worried about needing to let the tank cycle, I'll be leaving the plants in a bucket with at least some of the fish and I'll be leaving the filter to run on the bucket with the majority of the fish in it so this should keep all of the beneficial bacteria within the plants and filter well alive. And I'll also be seeding the tank with lots of mulm. I may try to get the substrate change done in the next few days though, so getting new fish before then might be a moot point, but whether I do it before or after, I'd still love suggestions! 

So I need suggestions for a few more fish for my 20g. I'm updating my sig now so all you have to do is check it out ot see who is in there currently


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

I LOVE bettas...so I would suggest getting some more females...just get like "rare-er" ones like Crowntail, Halfmoon,etc....

Maybe switching out your nano-fish out of the 30 though and putting them in here would be a good idea....

I think the red and blues of neons and the brown/green/orange--ish of the glowlights are verrrry pretty over black gravel and them having PLENTY of space in which to swim. I'd bump the glow schools up to about 7 into the 30.....


You don't HAVE to do this...it's just an idea.....


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestion, I don't think I'll switch which tank the fish are in at the moment, I really love the look of my embers in the 30g and there are only a few brigittae left. Besides, the fewer large fish in that tank, the better chance the RCS have of upping their numbers  I've thought about just re-upping the number of glolights / neons but I'm thinking about just leaving them and adding a second schooling fish. I worry about adding any new bettas into the mix, I originally had 3 in there that I got at the same time, but I worry about adding any new ones in that there could be problems because the new ones would be much smaller. It's something to think about though. I could also move the lone female betta to the 30g and get a new trio for the the 20g. That's a thought.

But please keep the ideas coming!


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

You have to excuse me...I don't have any more ideas. I have my 10gal project to finish...THEN I get to do my 5gal!! My tanks are mostly broken down now to make my life simpler when working on them. It's NOT simple stocking these tanks...because after you stock, you ALWAYS find a fish you want more. Then you add it(or them) and are back at the beginning of being overstocked!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Haha that's ok, I meant generally anyone who reads the thread, I'd love to hear the ideas!  Good luck with your tanks too!


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## Etcetera (Mar 10, 2009)

Though this seems to have already been addressed, three female bettas is definitely not ideal if you plan to keep groups of them at all. :s The more dominant of the bettas will continue to gang up on the weaker fish until they eventually die, for that reason there should be as many as possible to diffuse the aggression between them, although even that doesn't guarantee the safety of the bettas by any means. Sometimes when the girls are young they're fine and dandy, but when they get a little older one might all of a sudden go nuts and kill everyone. It's a roll of the dice. If you or anyone else is still curious, this site has a very good explanation of how betta sororities can be constructed and the rest of the thread has interesting information from other users who've tried to contruct their own: http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=12193 otherwise, beautiful tanks. I'm jealous.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Wow this tank is overdue for an update! It is in SERIOUS need of renovations, unfortunately, it has taken a bit of a back seat to my 30g and guppy project. But I am glad I found something (guppy grass) other than crypt spiralis, wendtii and moss that loves growing in this tank!

Fish are all doing well, i moved some of the zebra danios back to this tank to up the bioload in here (and reduce the stress to the smaller quieter fish in the 30g) and they seem very happy, the plants seem to be enjoying the added fertilizer as well :tongue:

Anyway, here is a picture, there is only one because I was having a lot of trouble getting this not to overexpose even though to the eye it is my dimmest tank, with the possible exception of the 30g. So, sorry for the crappy pic, but it's the only one i got where the guppy grass near the surface didn't show up just as a large green blob of overexposure. 

anyway....Full Tank Shot:









i'd love rearranging tips and ideas as well as some plant suggestions for the dark corner  

Also, *Etcetera* - sorry for the delayed response here (i've been away and/or very busy recently and haven't been frequenting the forums) but, the 3 females did well for a long time until one of them didn't make it when my tank crashed, and then the 2 did extremely well for a long time as well but I lost one relatively recently, i am not sure from what, but am 99% sure it wasn't from getting picked on, her fins were never shredded or tattered at all. So now I am actually down to just one betta girl and she's still kicking, tough little bugger that one! Thank you for the input though, I may try a betta sorority one day, but for now I have all the tank I can handle :tongue: 
And thank you very much for the kind words, i don't put as much time into this tank as I should ever since I got my 30g, so it is nice to hear that someone likes it!  It's in desperate need of trimming and reorganizing, but I really enjoy the simplicity of this one, i'm glad someone else finds it pretty as well


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Wow. I like the addition of the guppy grass. It softens everything up. Looks like a "girl" tank for sure.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*SewingAlot* - thanks! I think the guppy grass added something the tank needed. It grew so fast though that it has gotten quite out of control! But that just means I have more to use for filling in the tank!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I am giving you 5 stars on this one.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

heeheehee thanks Sara!  very much appreciated! have i at least momentarily satisfied your picture update craving? if not with this thread, I updated the other 3 as well, and there's multiple pictures in the breeding project and 30g journals, so you can get your fix there!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I just wanted to quickly update and apologize because unfortunately, there are no further updates, as luck would have it, life got in the way and I didn't have a chance to do any of the trimmings or other maintenance that this tank needs....hopefully early next week I'll have some more pictures 

I'm still looking for scaping suggestions though, so feel free to give me some input! thanks in advance!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just a minor update, this tank might be getting a small lighting upgrade soon. It currently has a 24" strip light on it, but it's only the fixture that is 24", the bulb is actually only 18", BUT on my 30g tank I have a 24" fixture with a 24" bulb in it and I just ordered a 30" strip light for that tank. 

The only problem is that my tank is right up against the wall so my filter is hanging over the side which means my light hangs over the side, as of right now because of the shorter bulb, none of the bulb is hanging over the edge, but if I put the longer bulb on it, the light itself would hang over the edge....so it might look a bit unsightly....not to mention this light doesn't turn on with a timer, the button has to be held in....so we'll see....i might wait to start using it when I move and can set up the tank with the filter hanging off the back.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Karackle said:


> heeheehee thanks Sara!  very much appreciated! have i at least momentarily satisfied your picture update craving? if not with this thread, I updated the other 3 as well, and there's multiple pictures in the breeding project and 30g journals, so you can get your fix there!


I'm getting a craving!!!!! :icon_roll


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahahaha soon...i hope! I really want to take the time to change the gravel when i do some rescaping of this tank and i MIGHT have time to get the whole shebang done tomorrow, i'll try to do some minor rearrangements / guppy grass trimming either way to make it more picture worthy in there


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I did some rearranging last night, but the dust had not finished settling before I went to bed so I will take some pictures tonight, so until then, here is a description of what I did  

I moved the guppy grass forest as best i could (it has such delicate stems, it's quite hard to actually plant it!) to the left, darker side of the tank, i moved all of the crypt spiralis to the right side of the tank, I moved the large Crypt wendtii that was hard to see from the right dark corner to the front left corner, and the Anubias from behind the DW to the front right corner, but I don't think I like it there. I moved it though because the old growth, large leaves were dead or dying and the new growth leaves are much smaller and could no longer be seen from behind the DW.

Now the center back of the tank is bare. But I should be getting / trading for some plants in the next 2 weeks or so which means I'll be able to fill that section in if I don't get impatient and buy plants from my LFS to fill it in before then :tongue:

My crypt spiralis forest is very sparse...i don't know what happened to all the growth i used to get, the root systems are all in tact and HEALTHY! WOAH! holy root systems batman, that was not easy to replant! hahaha so i'm thinking a few fresh fert tabs (haha say that 5 times fast..."a few fresh fert tabs", "a few fresh fert tabs" :hihi and a nice clean glass canopy and we'll be back in business soon enough....i hope!


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

It's looking very good!!

I love how fast Guppy Grass grows. I have some in my 5.5 and it grows like a weed...betta loves it!!

So what's your current stocking in this one? Plants and all!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks *Demonbreedr!* You won't think it looks so good when you see the new pictures, it looks like there's no plants left! :hihi: But thank you! :biggrin: 

Here's the list you requested 
*
Current Fauna:*
5 Zebra Danios
5-6 Neon Tetras 
2-3 Glolight tetras
2 F endlers
1 F Betta
1 clown Pleco
3 amano shrimp
3 otos

most of the fish in this tank are getting old so i've been slowly losing the tetras and the zebras. 

*Current Flora: *
Crypt spiralis
Crypt wendtii 'red' (or maybe bronze....maybe both)
Guppy Grass
Sunset hygro struggling to hold on (had white, live roots though when rearranging so I left it in)
Anubias nana
A large anubias (forget what kind)
Taiwan (or peacock or xmas) moss
Java moss stragglers here and there


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

You'll have to post the pictures...I'll decide from there!! :hihi:

When I rearrange my tanks, my mom is like "Where are the plants?!". LOL

Your Sunset Hygro might make a come back. 

In my 5.5 it held on for dear life in November. Then in Febuary, It started growing, NOW, It's almost at the top of that tank asking for a prune...

You ditched the Wisteria? It was growing soo well!!

Your fish list looks good....But, I have one suggestion. Blue Tetras!!

They are BEAUTIFUL, but I haven't had them in my tank yet...


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## organic sideburns (Dec 22, 2005)

i agree blue tetras are amazing little fish. cant wait to see the pics

how long have u had those fish? i have 4 lemon tetras that have been in my tank since day 1, they have to be over 5 years old by now and im kind waiting for them to pass on so i can try out some diff. fish! i like them, but a tad bored of tetras. hehe


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok here's a couple updated tank shots, they're not very good, but they give you the idea :tongue: especially about how sparse it is :hihi: Enjoy!

Full Tank Shots:


















And a couple of the inhabitants

Betta girl with her perfect tail (it's kind of dark and she's hiding and she's full from her dinner of live baby brine shrimp :hihi









And one of my huge amanos doing his thing 









DemonBreedr - That's what I'm hoping happens to my sunset hygro! I had some in my 30 that took forever to acclimate and didn't grow much at first, then grew slowly, then exploded with growth! So here's hopin'!  Also, the wisteria....yes it was growing well in all of my tanks and then I don't know what I did but I lost it all...in the 20g I moved it to the dark left corner and it didn't like it, I probably could have saved it by moving it over but the crypt spiralis was growing so well along 3/4 of the back of the tank that I didn't want to move it. BUT Wisteria is exactly what I want to put in the now empty center of the tank :biggrin: As for Blue Tetras, they sound pretty, I've never seen them, I'll have to look them up! I'm not sure this tank needs more fish right now, but I do want to move the endlers and zebrafish out of it, they're not colorful enough for that tank, so maybe i'll look into the blue tetras  

Organic sideburns - i'll certainly have to check out these blue tetras then!  I've had most of the tetras going on 4 years, and they were already quite large when I got them, some of them look quite healthy and spunky so I expect they'll be in there a while longer, i'm kind of ready for new fish too, but i guess i'll have to wait :hihi:

enjoy*!**

**







 Play by FoxSaver®

*


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

Personally, I would leave those fish in and let them live out their lives....You move your fish around a lot...but I did when I setup a 20gH that ended up turning into a disaster.

I hope everything turns out good for you!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

DemonBreedr - Well I definitely plan to leave the tetras in there, they've never lived anywhere else. The zebras will likely stay too as I don't have anywhere else for them. I tried them in the 30 for a while so they had more swimming room, but they were too rambunctious for the other fish so they had to come back to the 20, I'm not sure why I said I was thinking of moving them...I know i have nowhere else to put them at the moment :tongue: But the Endlers are getting moved to my Guppy/Endler Breeding tank now that they are mature, so that's the only reason they're going. So aside from trying the Zebras in the other tank, I really don't move my fish around all that much, I'm not sure why you had that impression, but no worries!  And when I do move fish, even though the water parameters should be approximately the same, I treat them like totally new additions and drip-acclimate which I think has helped me avoid disasters thus far. But thanks for the input and I appreciate the concern for the well-being of the fish, they are my top concern  The plants are pretty and they seem to make the fish happy so I like them, but I got into tanks for the fish.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Looking good, Kara.  I am gone for two days and you completely rearrange just to get my attention. Boy, do I feel loved. :hihi: I like the trim. For the dark corner, have you thought about a crypt or java fern?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Heehee I did it just for you, you were jonesing for pictures 

For the dark corner Crypt Spiralis didn't do well, but some other large form of crypt might do well. Wendtii didn't do great and wasn't tall enough, I've never had good luck with Java Ferns but maybe I should get a large one and try again  For now I'll see how the guppy grass does though I think.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You do like me, don't you?  I have had better luck with windelov java ferns in dark spaces. I am not great with crypts in water, so I understand that. Wow. That guppy grass has taken off.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I do like you. It's true!  

Is a windelov Java the long skinny-leaved java that you send me? Or is that probably a narrow or needle-leaf? I'll have to look up Windelov. Though once I move, I'll set this tank up the "normal" way with the HOB actually on the back so the light spans the whole tank, which will be nice. I might even put the old strip light from the 30 on here to add a few more watts of light. I'd probably just do a "noon burst" kind of thing, but maybe i'd get a few more things to grow in it then. I'll also start with a real planted tank substrate I think which should also help. 

You should see the guppy grass now, It's basically the only thing growing in the tank anymore other than the anubias and some moss on the DW. The fish are happy though, so that's all I'm worried about ATM. Once I move, I'll try to make it pretty again :tongue:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Windelov has fingers on the end. That's the best way I can describe it. I think I sent you needle leaf, but I can't remember. My brain was left at work today. If you ever want to try Turface as a substrate, let me know and I will send you a bunch. I have 150 pounds of it, lol.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha I actually know EXACTLY which one you mean now! Fingers is a good description! 

I just looked them up (i got distracted and never got around to that yesterday) and I think you are right, looks like needle-leaf as the leaves are pretty narrow  

Wow, 150lbs is a LOT! What is it? I'm not familiar with that substrate, I may take you up on that when I set the 5 back up and renovate the 20. That won't be for a while yet though. It is so weird not having my 5 set up because it was on my desk facing the doorway in my room so that was the first thing I saw when I walked in. I hate it not being there!  sigh...i am excited to move though, so I have to look at that positive side of it, along with the excitement of when I redo it


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## n00b (Jul 29, 2009)

Are you still on your 15w light? Sorry I'm at work so I can't read through all of the posts. 

I have a 20g high myself, and was just wondering if my 15w light would be able to support some plants.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

n00b- yeah, i am still using the 15w light, it works, but recently I've had trouble getting plants to grow as well in this tank as they did about a year ago. I probably need to replace the bulb or something, but plants do still grow. If I want this tank to consistantly look beautiful though, I probably need to upgrade the lighting just slightly.

I'm not a high-light kind of gal, but this tank's light might be just a little too low for consistently good growth. 

That said, it could be something else in the tank because I have less than 1wpg fluorescent in my 30g too and I get a lot of amazing growth in that tank. Though that one is not as deep which could have a lot to do with it.

If you are just looking for a few plants though, I'd say yes, you could grow Anubias easily, probably java fern (i never have luck with it for some bizzare reason, but I am sure it would be fine for anyone else), Crypt wendtii would probably do you well, and possibly some of the other crypts.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

well friends, this tank had a good run in my hands, but I recently moved and had to make some choices on tanks to bring. I ended up giving this tank to my friend instead of shutting it down and selling it, I know it's in good hands with him. He only lives about 5 mins from my old place so he transported the whole setup and has it up and running. 

Keep your eye open for updates on my 30g, and for some new journals from me, on my boyfriend's 60g and once we settle into the new place (we're at a temporary interim location so we've only got the 2 tanks running ATM) i'll be starting up the 10 and probably the 5 again


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