# Betta Breeding - Leaving the Father with the fry



## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

My fiancée and I have wanted to get into breeding Bettas for a LONG time now.
We originally got the idea with one of our passed males (Lucas the 1st, RIP) but decided against it in the end. I am glad we did because I realize now it was a bad idea for a number of reasons, mainly being Lucas was rather old (I now know about the risks involved in breeding older bettas) and I really didn't know enough to be breeding then.

Anyways, as of now I am seriously considering trying a spawn.

I've been doing a ton of research on genetics and the various "styles" of breeding, and I've found some methods that interest me more than others.

My plans as of now are to get set up to try out the "father rearing" method, I have a pair of VT selected already.
Phantom is a "marble cambodian" male. He is pink, purple and blue, a very peaceful disposition and has done very well in community tanks.
Monarch is a "multicolored marble" female. She is blue, purple and red. My newest Betta.
I am going to set up a 30 gallon (long) as my spawn & "grow out" tank in which I can gradually increase the water level as the fry grow.
I haven't decided yet whether or not I will control the population ahead of time (by scooping out the female after she's laid a few eggs) or if I will just leave that to Phantom.

Any ideas/questions/suggestions/etc are more than welcome.
Thanks!


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## digginbetta (Apr 6, 2011)

Awesome news, looks like you've got a good idea of where you want to go with this. Here's my experience 
Be prepared for anywhere from 100-400 sometimes even 500+ eggs. Usually the father will do a good job of getting rid of the infertile eggs, which always takes the number down. He may be an egg eater, so if you end up with way more than you think you can handle, give him a bit and you may be in luck. If he's not, and you still have a lot of fry, you can always do heavy culling at the one two and three month mark. This includes any fry that doesn't meet up to your standards, ie. deformities, poor growth rate, swim bladder problems, poor finnage, etc. I don't like to interrupt a spawn, only because it doesn't seem very cool :tongue: honestly, i wouldn't like someone puttin' a damper on my love life lol . . . .kidding of course, but the true reason is because I never know how many of the eggs are fertile or not, and the boy doesn't always do his job . . .
I always add an Indian almond leaf, my boys bubblenest under them much more often than anything else I put in there.. It also helps as a slight anti-fungal. Infusoria will also form with IAL, addition of java moss for infusoria helps a ton, and lets my fry feel safe.
For water maintenance I use an air stone, shrimp, and mystery snails, I used to have a lot of trouble keeping the bottom of my fry tank clean, but with my last spawn I used mystery snails, and I will never spawn another pair without them. They are SO awesome. Only deal with them is algae pellets as a dietary supplement. every night I siphon out some of the snail crud, this also helps get rid of some of the water, as betta fry produce a growth-inhibiting hormone, and the larger they are the more they produce. I compete with this by doing a nightly turkey-baster siphoning and slight water change, usually about 1/4 gal per every 5 gal. This I do for about a month until they're big enough to handle slightly larger water changes
That's about all I can think of at midnight lol

Mom and dad sound gorgeous  
Let the breeding begin!


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## Jorge_Burrito (Nov 10, 2010)

Have a plan for what you are going to do with all the kiddies, there could be potentially quite a lot of them. Personally I feel you shouldn't breed bettas unless you have a goal to try and improve the stock. There is enough pet store bettas out there that live horrible existences in little cups, why add to this stock?


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks for the infor, digginbetta! 

Jorge that is a good a opinion to have and a great point for anyone wanting to breed Bettas. 

However, I do plan to scoop mom out after she has laid a few eggs OR scoop out a few eggs when they're done as to not disturb the natural process of their spawn, as digginbetta mentioned. This and leaving the male in will take care of population control and from what I have read about weak/deformed/sick fry, the male will take care of all the culling for me.

Once grown, the fry will be kept by me, close friends and family. There is a slight possibility I MIGHT sell some of them to the GP, but I'll be very selective as to who and make it clear that 5 gallons is the minimal requirement for permanent housing.

I am not too worried about care and maintenance of the fry, it seems pretty straight forward. I've raised Dwarf Frog tadpoles before and have read/been told that this is MUCH more difficult than raising bettas, so I think I will be alright.


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

I was wondering though, is there a risk of the fry spawning in the grow out tank when they are old enough? 
Haven't heard anything about that but it did cross my mind today.

I was also looking at a really cool video on youtube that's just slightly relevant to what I'm going to attempt, so I thought I would share. *The video's not mine.*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw8H_aRM_kk&feature=related


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## Jorge_Burrito (Nov 10, 2010)

FrogFarm said:


> I was wondering though, is there a risk of the fry spawning in the grow out tank when they are old enough?
> Haven't heard anything about that but it did cross my mind today.
> 
> I was also looking at a really cool video on youtube that's just slightly relevant to what I'm going to attempt, so I thought I would share. *The video's not mine.*
> ...


The males will start getting really aggressive with each other long before they are ready to spawn. Males should be in their separate containers once they start to show aggression, typically 1.5-2 month mark.


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

I've heard that but I have also heard different.
Hmmmmm.....

Tank Full Of Male Bettas - Planted Tank Forum


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

Here are some more links I have found on the topic. 

http://www.bettasocietymalaysia.com.my/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=438&view=next

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php...fry/page__s__72344a88dc5965f3070e19133309b20a


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

You need to be prepared to separate the fry as they get older, especially the males but also the females as needed. Leaving them all together *may* work but you can't count on it. You could have hundreds of fry - what will you do with them all if they don't get along in the same tank? Do you have hundreds of friends that want bettas? Are you going to cull them simply because you weren't prepared for the situation? 

I also feel that bettas, like any creature, should only be bred to improve the breed. So many animals of each and every type of euthanized/abandoned each year (and yes that includes fish) that to purposely breed more is really an act of cruelty in my opinion.


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

Oh, I know. I'm the last person to preach to about reputable breeding.
(Not saying that was what you are doing, your point was more than valid)
I have a back up plan and will have separate containers ready to go just in case.

Likewise, I believe that the #1 concern of any breeder (regardless of species) should be to improve said breed or type.
I can't count how many times I have gotten worked up over idiot BYBs who refuse to take responsibility for their actions.  

I moderate on a dog forum called Pit Bull Chat, we see A LOT of it on there. 

I just really want to try this, step back and see how it goes with as little interference as possible. 
From what I have read (and going on general logic) I'm quite sure that this would be one of the best ways to go forward in terms of quality.

Nearly everyone who's done it that I have read about has had it result in better quality fry it seems. It seems quite logical.

I mean, you start with two quality fish and pair them.
If what I have gathered is correct, the male will cull fry of lesser quality which will hopefully/likely result in fish that exceed their parents in quality, and so forth.

As I said, I will be controlling the egg population before they hatch (by either removing the female or some of the eggs) and so having a ton of homeless bettas isn't an issue.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

wow good luck with this FrogFarm. I wish you the best of luck. I was considering taking on the challenge but decided against it because of lack of space (and time). Please keep us updated on how things go.

you may want to check out www.ultimatebettas.com if you haven't already. there are some good sources there.


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

Haha, I think I was the one who sent you there in the first place. Same username on there.
Strick from UB sent me here to TPT. 

Thanks for wishing me luck!


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

Just to update:

The female is settling in well (she's pretty new) and her conditioning seems to be going well.

Phantoms' been building bubble nests a lot more and a lot bigger than usual, just by coincidence.
He has also started treating the guppy fry that live with him like his own, he's been forcing them toward the bubblenest and chasing them around more than he usually does. Haha


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

Bump. Hahaha


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

Lol


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

Hahaha I'm a loser.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Where did you get the spawning pair from? If they are pet store fish then they are not going to be good quality to start with, as breeders will sell the quality fish to other breeders/hobbyists and sell the lesser quality en masse to the pet stores.


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## Splendid Splendens (Dec 22, 2010)

Oh I know all of that, as I said I have done a ton of research.  
One of them is from our local pet store (very small low-traffic shop, smaller than any chain store, trust me) which I know many will not agree with.
He is, however, a great specimen for what it is work.
I purchased him when he was about seven weeks old and he was much larger, intensely colored and more active than any of the other fish that I assume were from the same spawn. I know it is still risky to breed him, but I've decided to go for it.


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## lookimawave (Feb 23, 2012)

So, how did it work out for you?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I've done this. It works well. You won't get as many fry as you'd like . I think the make will cull defective fry for you.

You will have to move the father out after the male and female have matured (around 2-3 months).. The daughters will attack the father, maybe some instinctual gene thing. And also separate the boys. They will get aggressive as well. The sisters can stay together. They get along really well.


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## Capecrusher (Feb 17, 2015)

After they spawn, remove the female or the male might kill her. When the fry hatch, the male will tend them till they are free swimming. Remove him then. The fry can eat baby brine shrimp immediately, no matter what you may read. You will see their little bellies turn pink. I went through the egg yolk, infusoria method, but found it is not necessary. I raised many hatches in 7 1/2 gallon tanks with a Bubble Up corner filter with the top removed. The filter had floss on the bottom and carbon on top. It worked great without the lid, and the fry could move around as they pleased. I also kept the entire batch in the tank until the were over an inch long. No fights as long as they were not separated. Then all bets are off. It's really quite easy to breed Bettas, but you will need a lot of plastic cups sooner or later.


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## amcoffeegirl (May 26, 2009)

The betta forums advise against breeding veil tails for the reason that no one wants them anymore. 
You can't even give them away. 
I posted what I thought was an ideal male double tail and they pointed out his spoon shaped head and stair step dorsal. I did not breed him after that.
If you want to breed you may want to get a nice pair from a breeder.
I guess you could always use them as feeder fish.


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## lookimawave (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm thinking of breeding as kind of a genetics project. I'd like to get koi coloration but I'm also just interested in what other color patters might emerge. This method seems like the least work by far! 

This is the marble double tail male I'm thinking of breeding...he's from petsmart and I've read that most are too old to breed but he's only about 1.25in without his tail. I'm thinking of using a bright/blonde dt female. Does that sound like a good candidate to try to achieve koi coloration?


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## lookimawave (Feb 23, 2012)

I also read with this method that the father culls more or less fry depending on the amount of space available. Is there any reason why I can't use a 50 gal spawn tank?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

lookimawave said:


> I also read with this method that the father culls more or less fry depending on the amount of space available. Is there any reason why I can't use a 50 gal spawn tank?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Keep the water level low when breeding and when the fry first hatch. It'll be easier for the male to take care of them. Once the fry are free swimming, you can raise the water level.


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## starrlamia (Jul 31, 2012)

i would suggest looking at the betta show clubs to get more info on breeding practices and also selecting breeding stock. Would not recommend breeding veil tails at all. Very much in line with byb breeders :S


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## lookimawave (Feb 23, 2012)

No vein tails. The male is a double tail. On the lookout for a bright/blond double tail female. I've also read accounts of ppl breeding bettas up to 9 years old and just love how this make looks so I'm going to give it a gander. 


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## starrlamia (Jul 31, 2012)

lookimawave said:


> No vein tails. The male is a double tail. On the lookout for a bright/blond double tail female. I've also read accounts of ppl breeding bettas up to 9 years old and just love how this make looks so I'm going to give it a gander.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


sorry didn't realize the OP was old haha, you may need to contact breeders or look on aquabid to find a female double tail, I don't think I've ever seen one at a pet store or LFS.


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## lookimawave (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't like starting threads  too much pressure . I found a store a state away that had a photo of a koi female (not dt though) so maybe I'll make a trip this weekend 


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