# 14g established w fish



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Welcome to the Planted Tank. Do not be afraid of live plants.  Just try it and see how they develop, and keep reading all the advise on this wonderful site. Your choice of plants is good, depending on how aged your substrate is, a Cryptocoryne would appreciate some nutritive addition to the root area, like fertilizer tabs. But plants will let you know when they are hungry, so I wouldn't worry about it in the beginning.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Welcome to the Planted Tank!!

This is just my opinion, but I think it's easily worth the "effort" to take the time to replace all your gravel with a planted tank substrate. A very common one which can be found in local fish stores is called Eco Complete. If you take the time to do this, not only will your tank be more pleasing to the eye, but it will provide nutrients to your plants' roots.

That being said, I think you have a few good ideas in the works there, and there's only one way to see how it will turn out....



Best of luck to you! This is an addictive hobby....


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## BigJoe (Jul 7, 2008)

so just to clarify do you think the cross-stitching idea would work... maybe even for the anubias... and do i need a pot for the crypt?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think your cross-stitching idea sounds pretty promising- please post some pics to let us know how it works out? IME java moss is pretty easy to grow and very "clingy" so I think it should be fine.

Anubias just needs a few ties to the rhizome (thick green part at the base of the leaves) to hold it in place till the roots grow in, so IMO cross-stitching would probably be overkill, but you can certainly do it if you like.

You could use a small plastic pot for the crypt, fill it with some plant substrate and trim the edge of the pot down the the depth of the rest of your substrate to hide it, but that's just an idea, and it's certainly not necessary. Check out some of Karackle's tanks in the Photo forum- she's growing crypts pretty well in just regular aquarium gravel. :thumbsup:


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

I also have a couple different kinds of crypts growing in regular aquarium gravel, and they have rooted very well, as I found out when I went to move one of them!


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## BigJoe (Jul 7, 2008)

ok so i have no idea what to do now... i picked these plants because they were low light and supposedly low maintenance... also everywhere i read they seemed to be fairly common... i can't find any anywhere... with exception to aquabid and paying 9 bucks for java moss plus 3 dollars shipping... i might have to put it on hold... i really wanted the anubias but apparently as soon as they are in the stores here they are sold... i don't know what to do... i don't want to pay triple price of what they should be for each plant just cause they come from different places and need 3 different shipping costs... so i guess my question now is: Is there a place that sells plants reliably online that i may pick up several plants at a reasonable price, and pay just one shipping cost???


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## TLH (Apr 20, 2008)

You could always try the swap'n'shop section here, there is often golf ball size lumps of moss and lots of other stuff. You may have to buy several different times though to get all you want but the guys here are pretty fair.

Crypts do tend to like a rich substrate but I have mine growing in normal gravel and they seem to do fine. I did treat them to some Laterite when I planted the tank just to get them off to a good start. I only use pots if I think I'll want to move a plant around a lot.

The moss will grow over anything it can attach to, mine has started growing up the glass since I left off scraping the algae off it. You could sew it onto your weave material to start it off no problem.


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## BigJoe (Jul 7, 2008)

lucky me... i went to petco for some stuff for my gf's bird... they just got a shipment of plants in... so i got an anubias (i'm thinking it is either a round leaf or nana) and 2 bunches of java moss... at least i got some of a start


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## BigJoe (Jul 7, 2008)

ok just in case someone is interested or is gonna tell me i'm messing up... 

I fashioned myself an artificial cave with some cross-stiching stuff... it is running the length of the tank (short ways) with 2 openings and somewhat on the edge... i like what my head pictures there... i put the java moss on it and weighed it down with some weights that came with it...hopefully i will be able to remove the weights later.. and that it doesn't hurt my fish... my cories tried to explore it even while i was putting it in place...

as for the anubias i am sortof afraid i put it in a bad way... it had lots of roots coming from the rhizome into some "wool" i removed the wool and put it in the gravel (like the planting guide tag thing said to do... if this is wrong i will go get some lava rock or smt to attach it to since that is what i always read and saw... well other than driftwood) i only put the roots in the gravel though and the rhizome is above the gravel... i might move it tomorrow to a new spot seeing as i have a crypt and 2 more anubias (different types) hopefully this isn't too much for my tank... small is ok with me i don't want to fill the tank since i am mainly planting it for enhancing the look and feeling of my fish... tomorrow i am gonna get a piece of poster board for a background... whats funny is i might have a whole new project on a 55g come thursday.... that one might not be planted very well... 

btw i saw some stuff called kyoto grass at petco and petsmart... what kind of light does this require... i'm guessing it would need sand substrate so it may be an idea for my hopefully next big big project...

back to questions: i was wondering... would it be better to get 2 wpg incandescent or 1.5 wpg flourescent (wal-mart and petsmart screw in availability so K color temp is not known...)

ok thats enough for now...


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## TLH (Apr 20, 2008)

Make sure there are no rough edges on that cave and you should be fine with it.

Anubias is fine in gravel unless you bury the rhizome, so you're fine. Taking the wool off was the right thing to do too.

The Kyoto Grass (Mondo Grass) is not a true aquatic plant and will die off after a month or so, best to avoid it imho.

I don't know alot about growing under incandescents but if the electric bill is a decider then go for flourescent lighting as they are cheaper to run I think.


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## dooboogoo (Apr 19, 2007)

I would go with the fluorescent screw-ins. From what I've heard, incandescents don't give off enough light for plants.


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## BigJoe (Jul 7, 2008)

ok i figured that on the grass.. they had too much of it available... 

i will stick with the flourescents just because i already have them... i was just wondering because i found many things that say over 2 wpg wouldopen a lot more possibilities and at 2 i don't think i would need co2 injections... what grassy plants are available for low light setups without co2 and possibly as little fertilizer and substrate change as possible...

on further loking at it i believe the anubias is a round leaf barteri (still could be wrong) if it is will it get big enough for a back plant (i have another round leaf and a coffeola and a crypt on the way...) how would you arrange these plants (assuming you had to use these and possibly suggest some other plants that will grow in about 1.5 wpg with no co2 injection


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## dooboogoo (Apr 19, 2007)

I would think dwarf hairgrass would be good for a grassy foreground.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Good call on keeping the fluorescents- even with a higher apparant wattage incandescent bulb would have been a step down from what you currently have; they waste too much energy in heat and not enough light would even go into the tank.

There's a sticky at the top of this forum with a great list of low light plants you can try for this tank. :thumbsup:


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## BigJoe (Jul 7, 2008)

So here it is right now... i might move around some of it a little more if someone tells me it is horrible but remember i am doing this for my fish not for sole aesthetics... one thing i did notice is my bubble wand is putting bubbles up my crypt (wendtii as it turns out) and it seems to be dissolving the leaves... is this normal or do i ned to move my bubble wand away from it...

the other 3 plants are anubias... 1 round leaf barteri 1 coffeola and one barteri of some type... the only non mobile thing is the moss cave which i am hoping will grow over so i cant see the material one day...

oh well i gotta find a way to make my pictures able to attach on here...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd move the bubblewand.

I upload my pics into a free account at www.photobucket.com, then copy and paste the img link into the img box that opens when you click the img box in the edit text window here on the forum.


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## BigJoe (Jul 7, 2008)

ok i know its a dead thread... but i figured i'd update... after a few dead shrimp and a major drop in PH i now have an uncycled 14g tank with 3 anubias... the crypt melted away and i am pretty sure the java moss was dead when i though it out (wasnt mushy like the crypt butwas quite brown...) took the cross-stitching material out and now i have some lava rock... i am thinking im gonna have to start with some fertilizers though i was trying to avoid them... any idea what kind i should get? i have 3 different anubias and plan to get a couple more bunches of moss as soon as i get re-cycled and find some...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Alternatives to changing substrate are growing plants in pots, adding laterite to the gravel, and buying plants that don't need a rich substrate.

I believe the Anubias get its ferts from the water column so it would be okay. The crypt will need good substrate. Plants like hornwort grow well no matter what substrate or light you have.

As for your lighting, have you seen the florescent screw in bulbs? The 1s labeled daylight are being used on aquariums. They give off less heat, last longer and the color spectrum is an improvement to incandescent bulbs.

If you are going to get ferts it is cheaper to buy dry ones. Which 1s depends on your parameters and what you are going to plant. Crypts are know to melt and then come back. www.aquariumfertilizers.com or http://www.barrreport.com/ 

First check out mizu-chan's 20 gallon tank. She dosn't use ferts, just diy co2. For lighting she has 2 26w CFL 6500 bulbs. 

Have read that diy co2 is difficult to do if your kH is below 4 but some experienced people have told me that they don't worry about low Kh.


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## BigJoe (Jul 7, 2008)

well that sucks.... i threw away my crypt thinking that it was the reason my PH was going all screwy or at least kiling my fish... maybe i'll buy a new one one day but now it seems that my KH and GH are probably off because i cannot get the PH stable... is limestone good to add to the tank? i have been told it is if i have very low PH and KH/GH but noone that told me that keeps plants...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Don't add anything before getting your water tested so you know for sure what you're starting with. Test both your tank water, your tap water, and tap water that's set out undisturbed for 24 hours.

I'd recommend:

pH
ammonia
nitrite
nitrate
gH
kH


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> Check out some of Karackle's tanks in the Photo forum- she's growing crypts pretty well in just regular aquarium gravel.


Hey that's me! :hihi: Haha, when I saw that i'd already planned on telling you that I have Crypt wendtii's growing VERY well in plain aquarium gravel in 2 separate tanks, my 5.5g with ~2.5 wpg and my 20g with .75wpg (all stock lighting fixtures / bulbs). The substrate in my 20g was aged (tank had been set up for a while before I went planted with it) but the 5.5g was brand new plain aquarium gravel and crypts have always done well. I put root tabs under them occasionally and dose the water column occasionally, but mostly I leave my tanks to do their thing. 

Be careful about pulling crypts all the way out when they look dead, the one thing about them is they're very sensitive to change so a lot of times all of their leaves will "melt" when they first go in a new tank, but if the roots still look healthy (white and firm, not clearish and mushy) then give them a chance, they tend to bounce back. I've taken really healthy crypts from one of my tanks to put in a different tank and had most or all of the old leaves melt away, but new growth replaced them.

Other than that, I definitely agree with LauraLee, test your water parameters (levels) before making any changes that could effect the water chemistry :thumbsup: Good luck and keep us posted, pics would be awesome too. Like Laura, I use photobucket.com, it's easy and free!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

BigJoe said:


> well that sucks.... i threw away my crypt thinking that it was the reason my PH was going all screwy or at least kiling my fish... maybe i'll buy a new one one day but now it seems that my KH and GH are probably off because i cannot get the PH stable... is limestone good to add to the tank? i have been told it is if i have very low PH and KH/GH but noone that told me that keeps plants...


PH was going all screwy. This means down or up. I use baking soda, 3ml 1x month, to keep my tank, 29 gallon, stable. It raises the ph a bit. Thus I add it after adding flourish excel, which lowers the ph. Some use crushed coral, which is sold as bird gravel or eggshells. At http://en.allexperts.com read PH tends to be more stable with extra circulation too, so you might consider adding an airstone hooked to an air bar, wand or an airstone. 

Read to test rocks if they're safe for aquariums, to pour some vinegar on them, if they bubble/fizz you don't want to use them-they're limestone.

Don't give up yet!! You've just had 1 set back. Look at as a learning tool. check out this link for lower maintenance expenses (LME) tank. http://www.pbase.com/plantella/330hnlme

Plants that have lived through my errors are java fern and hornwort. If you were in Atlanta, Ga area I would give you some. Check out craigslist.org for your area.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Flourish Excel shouldn't lower pH.


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