# Super-low tech 20H - New Fish!



## legomaniac89

Thought I'd share this with everyone. This is my 20H low-tech tank. I have a near-full-time job and a full college schedule as of right now so I had to change this tank from your normal "weekly water changes, daily ferts" tank to low tech. 

As of now, I am doing 50% water changes every six months. Yes, that's 180 days in between water changes, and my nitrates have never topped out above 10ppm. So here it is.









I know it's a bit sloppy but I still love it. Several people have told me to ditch the Java Moss in the front, but I wouldn't touch it for anything. I think it's the key to super-low tech. That, and 3/4 of a Marineland canister filter devoted to biological filtration.










This is my Cryptocoryne wendtii "Bronze". I should have taken a side shot showing the base of the plant; it's probably a good 4 inches across and shoots off daughter plants like there's no tomorrow. 










Anubias barteri var. nana with one of my super red RCS. I have three of the Anubias and at least one of them is usually flowering. 










Rotala rotundifolia. My lighting is a Coralife 24" T5 dual tube fixture, so only 2.4wpg. The Rotala still turns hot pink under the lights, even though this pic doesn't do it justice.

So there's my low tech plants, but I have quite a few plants that shouldn't grow in anything less than heavy lighting and massive fertilization. For example...










My Ozelot Sword. This baby shoots up new leaves almost daily. 










Nymphaea lotus "Zenkeri". The colors are so much brighter than what the pic shows them to be. This plant sends up about two leaves DAILY. No exaggeration. Recently, it also sent out 2 daughters which are now growing very quickly.










Echinodorus "Red Devil". I've only had this one for a couple of weeks and it's doing great. The new leaves are deep red and gradually turn green as they age. This sword is extremely rare in the hobby. I got it from a buddy who got it from Aquabid.com.










And finally, my male GBR. 

By the way, did I mention I never fertilize? Ever. I used a bottom layer of Fertilome Seedling and Cutting Starter and covered it with Flourite. The only other fertilization the plants get is from the fish.

So there it is. Let me know what you all think about it

Adam


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## legomaniac89

By the way, my inspiration for this came from "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad. She is all about low-tech tanks and she is an absolute genius when it comes to the science of aquariums. If you've never read her book, rent it or buy it. It is definitely worth the read. I can read this book over and over and still learn something new each time.


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## bklyndrvr

nice tank! I've been meaning to set up my 20h. Maybe I'm inspired now


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## thingamarob

My first post, but I wanted to say that I think this tank is really cool. It looks like it just rolled out of bed


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## legomaniac89

> It looks like it just rolled out of bed


Lol I think the exact same thing! 
Like I said, my inspiration for this was from Diana Walstad and her tanks are kinda the same way. Sloppy, disorganized, but they still look really good. And she does the same maintenance on her tanks that I do on this one. No ferts, wc every 6 months. 

By the way thingamarob, welcome to The Planted Tank.


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## Phoenix-cry

This is way cool for a low tech!


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## rpayer

Nice tank.. However, it isn't really "super low-tech" with 2.4w of T-5.


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## legomaniac89

> Nice tank.. However, it isn't really "super low-tech" with 2.4w of T-5.


Well it's super-low tech because of 6 months in between water changes and no ferts at all. When I started it up it wasn't supposed to be low tech; it was a normal tank. But with a full time job and a college load, I couldn't keep up with the maintenance.

I have a Marineland 160 canister (again, not really low-tech) with over 3/4 of it devoted to biological filtration. Add a huge Java Moss carpet as a nutrient sponge and voila! Like I said, after 6 months of close to zero maintenance, I tested my water and nitrates were only at 10. This was with a brand new test kit, but I still didn't really trust it, so I brought it to my LFS, where I also work. The reading was exactly the same. 

I only feed my fish every other day or so, but I have never had any bouts with any kind of deficiency in my plants. I figured my swordplants would be the first to tell me if there was a problem of some kind, but they grow like mad with lots of color. I figure the potting soil underneath gives off plenty of nutrients for any plant.


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## x2h

wait till it's one year old under low maintenance. i did exactly the same but after one year i had to start fertilizing...


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## legomaniac89

> wait till it's one year old under low maintenance. i did exactly the same but after one year i had to start fertilizing...


It's been low maint. for over a year and a half now


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## Homer_Simpson

legomaniac89 said:


> It's been low maint. for over a year and a half now


Great looking tank.
Keep us updated. I will be curious to see how long this tank will stand up before nutrient deficiency symptoms begin to surface. Lots of people that I spoke to that set up Natural Planted tanks told me that the tanks started out really well, but then all the plants ended up dieing. The floaters are probably helping filter some of the light helping to prevent algae, but they will also suck up nutrients like a sponge.

Good luck.


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## legomaniac89

Homer_Simpson said:


> Great looking tank.
> Keep us updated. I will be curious to see how long this tank will stand up before nutrient deficiency symptoms begin to surface. Lots of people that I spoke to that set up Natural Planted tanks told me that the tanks started out really well, but then all the plants ended up dieing. The floaters are probably helping filter some of the light helping to prevent algae, but they will also suck up nutrients like a sponge.
> 
> Good luck.


Hoping Diana Walstad was right in Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, she says an unnderlayer of potting soil should last for 8 years or so before giving up all its nutrients (for those of you that have the book, its pg. 140). If that's the case, the plants shouldn't be deficient in anything major for quite a while. I guess only time will tell.


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## rpayer

No c02 with all that T5?


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## powly

beautiful mate , beautiful .


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## legomaniac89

rpayer said:


> No c02 with all that T5?


Nope. I used to have a DIY system up and running, but I got sick of it . Every once in a while, like maybe once a month, I pour in some Excel, but that's about it. I've never had any kind of deficiencies in my plants.


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## Homer_Simpson

legomaniac89 said:


> Hoping Diana Walstad was right in Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, she says an unnderlayer of potting soil should last for 8 years or so before giving up all its nutrients (for those of you that have the book, its pg. 140). If that's the case, the plants shouldn't be deficient in anything major for quite a while. I guess only time will tell.



I see your point and agree - time will tell. Not to pitt one against the other but Tom Barr recommends water column fertilization to extend the life of any substrate or sediment. I cannot speak for him but I doubt he would agree with any sediment having a 8 year life expectancy without water column dosing. I guess it depends on who you believe and the best way to find out is to try both methods over the same period of time to see what happens. However, if I am not mistaken I believe that the substrate with a Natural Planted Tank is alleged to build up enough mulm over the long run with is believed to sufficiently provide sufficient nutrients for the plants to continue to grow. IMHO, a very low light tank with very low light plants, few if any deep root feeders(crytocornes, swords) and no c02, there would be very little or no strain on the sediment as far as nutrient uptake goes, so I can see the sediment supporting the plants for 8 years. However, your tank is different. I am not saying it will not work, but it will interesting to see how the tank progresses. By the way, what specific brand topsoil or potting soil did you use for this setup??


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## legomaniac89

Homer_Simpson said:


> By the way, what specific brand topsoil or potting soil did you use for this setup??


I used Fertilome Seedling and Cutting Starter. A friend who helped me with the design of the tank found an article somewhere saying that seedling/cutting starter soils were best for aquatic plants. I guess they have finer sediments, making it easier for aquatic plants to take root and stay rooted, rather than float away. Its worked well so far and I've used the same stuff in every other tank I've set up.

I guess I mixed in a little Greensand with the soil. It supposedly slowly releases Potassium over a long time, according to the package.


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## Homer_Simpson

legomaniac89 said:


> I used Fertilome Seedling and Cutting Starter. A friend who helped me with the design of the tank found an article somewhere saying that seedling/cutting starter soils were best for aquatic plants. I guess they have finer sediments, making it easier for aquatic plants to take root and stay rooted, rather than float away. Its worked well so far and I've used the same stuff in every other tank I've set up.
> 
> I guess I mixed in a little Greensand with the soil. It supposedly slowly releases Potassium over a long time, according to the package.


Very interesting, thanks for sharing.


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## legomaniac89

Been a while since an update, so here you go.










Me and my horrible photography skills. Anyway, I must say it looks a lot better than the last pictures. I trimmed the Lotus and Rotala back hard and added some _Ludwigia repens x arcuata _and floating _Hydrocotyle leucocephela_. You can't see them, but there are sprigs of _Hygrophila polysperma "Rosanervig"_ all over the place now too.

I clipped off most all of the floating leaves of the Lotus and it sent up mostly the submersed leaves. I think it looks a lot better this way.










The Glowlights just had to be in the picture. They're anything but camera-shy.


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## NightSky

Nice colors you got going there. It's really interesting reading all the different ways people are successful in planted aquariums. If there is one thing that scares new people away from planted tanks, it's the complexity. I think low tech cuts a lot of that complexity out and allows for people to be successful with less work.


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## Hilde

Wow!! I wish I could do this.

What is your Gh, Kh, and nitrates?

How much was the Fertilome Seedling and Cutting Starter substrate?


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## legomaniac89

Hilde said:


> Wow!! I wish I could do this.
> 
> What is your Gh, Kh, and nitrates?
> 
> How much was the Fertilome Seedling and Cutting Starter substrate?


Thanks!

Honestly, I haven't tested my gH and kH since...forever :icon_redf. My guess is that it is fairly soft because of the soil underlayer and driftwood, but I couldn't tell you for sure. I only test my nitrates right before my every-six-months water change and they have _never_ topped out over 15ppm. pH is right at 7, also.

The Fertilome soil, which I only used half of, cost me like $5.50. You can find it at any gardening store. Awesome stuff, but the only downside is that it turns your tank into chocolate milk every time you pull a plant.


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## fastfreddie

Very nice!


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## Hilde

legomaniac89 said:


> The Fertilome soil, which I only used half of, cost me like $5.50. You can find it at any gardening store. Awesome stuff, but the only downside is that it turns your tank into chocolate milk every time you pull a plant.


How long does that last?

I get a similar reaction with my substrate that has kitty litter mixed in. It only last a day. I clear up by using an extra filter and Nutrifin's clear.


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## legomaniac89

It usually clears up by itself in an hour or so, but you have to blow off a lot of particles that settle on the plants. It's not too bad, it just looks nasty for a bit.

It's something I'm willing to tolerate if it means better plant growth


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## legomaniac89

Here's another update. Not much has changed, but I pulled the Green Ozelot Sword. It was getting too big for the tank and the bottom leaves were starting to get warped and twisted due to lack of space to spread. So I replaced it with a couple of Florida Sunset Crypts and am still waiting for them to grow in.

FTS










Cryptocoryne wendtii "Florida Sunset"










Check out the Curviceps peeking out from behind the plants. He's so cute :biggrin:.

And that's it. I tested the nitrates just for the heck of it, four months since a water change. They barely registered at all on the API Liquid test kit. I love low-tech tanks


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## Ghostie

I am hoping my 20 gallon low tech looks this good when it grows out a bit. We are using the same light, although you have a soil substrate. Something to look forward too!


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## Karackle

Wow this is very inspirational! My 20H is in a sad state visually, the water is stable and the fish are happy, but the plants look a mess and i've been trying to motivate myself to tackle it and redo it, this might just be the inspiration and motivation i need!

Beautiful tank! 

I'm a low tech gal myself, and I definitely agree with you on LOVING it!  :hihi:


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## Cheesehead Cory

Say, what's the wattage on that T-5 fixture?


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## Hilde

Cheesehead Cory said:


> Say, what's the wattage on that T-5 fixture?


About wattage the wpg rule is based on T12 bulbs.

After viewing Trallen44 low light tank, here, I am beginning to think that the photons from the bulbs is more important than the wattage. I am doing an experiment to verify this.


*
*
*
*


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## legomaniac89

Ghostie - Thanks! I really like the T5 light, you won't regret using it.

Karackle - Glad I could help motivate you. 20H's are fun to scape

Cheesehead Cory - It's a Coralife Aqualight 2x24w T5 fixture, so 48w total.

Hilde - I agree with you. The spectrum of the light emitted from the bulb is more important than the intensity. You can have an ungodly bright incandescent bulb (yellow spectrum) over a planted tank and the plants will grow just because of the sheer intensity of the light. You can also have a normal fluorescent tube designed for plants (full spectrum, heavy on red and blue) and the plants will grow better than the plants under the incandescent bulb.

Sorry in advance, here comes a biology lesson.

When plants photosynthesize, they need light to fuel the process. Wavelengths of light in the blue end of the spectrum (420-470nm) are used most readily by plants. In nature, some light used by plants is blue light as it penetrates air and water better than any other color (this is why the sky and water look blue). It is the most available wavelength for plants to use, but it is absorbed slower than the other colors.

Plants also use a lot of light in the red end of the spectrum. It is slower but absorbed more quickly by the chlorophyll in plants. Red light is used more efficiently by plants than red light, but it is used at the same rate as blue because blue is more available.

Green light is not used by plants at all. In fact, it is completely reflected away by the chlorophyll (which is green). So haveing a bulb with a peak in the green area means nothing for your plants. It will make them seem a lot brighter to your eyes, but they can't use light in the green wavelength.

So in short, the color of the photons being emitted is more important to plants than the intensity of the light being emitted. An incredibly awesome thread on light and photosynthesis is on APC here

Hmm...I wonder if my biology professor will give me any extra credit for this :icon_roll


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## Ghostie

I am using the Coralife 2x14w T5 for a total of 28w. I raised my light a bit and put some tracing paper under it to block some light. But it seems like you have a lot of floating plant cover.


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## legomaniac89

Ghostie, I'd just remove the tracing paper. 28w over 20 gallons of water is low light as it is, the tracing paper will just mess with the spectrum before it gets to the plants.


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## Ghostie

You can read about some of the problems I have had so far here: http://www.barrreport.com/general-plant-topics/5592-problems-low-light-no-c02-tank.html


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## legomaniac89

Ah ok, I see your reason. Makes sense.

To answer your question there, you shouldn't dose iron and phosphorus (KH2PO4) because the iron and phosphorus will bind with each other making both of them unavailable to the plants. I dealt with this a while back, and I started dosing them a couple of hours apart (in another tank of mine) and have had no problems since.


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## Cheesehead Cory

legomaniac89 said:


> It's a Coralife Aqualight 2x24w T5 fixture, so 48w total.


Like others here, I was trying to figure out how you're getting away with 2.4 wpg of T5 light without major algae issues (insanely jealous), noticed your first post said 24" as opposed to 24w, and thought they might be 24" 18w tubes, which would have made more sense to me. 

I have a 55w AH supply retrofit over my 33g tank for 1.66 wpg and prior to adding regular large doses of excel, I was having constant BBA and GSA issues. Even with 20 ml of excel a day, I still have some BBA (and my vals hate me).

All I can figure now is your floaters are really cutting down the intensity into the tank, or your fish must be really heavy breathers to kick out enough CO2 to keep up with that light. :confused1: Or maybe these are NO T5 and not HO. (??)

I guess when my excel runs out, I'll try removing the reflector from my light, and/or add a bunch of floating plants, maybe hunt down some of those fish that are training for the olympics too.


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## Karackle

Not to thread-jack but I thought i'd throw out there that until I added floaters to my 10g tank i had major algae problems, I think they help for 2 reasons, 1 is the obvious reason which is that they cut down on the actual light getting through but the second is that they proliferate very quickly and therefore, i believe, are great nutrient sponges. 

If that helps


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## legomaniac89

Cheesehead Cory said:


> Like others here, I was trying to figure out how you're getting away with 2.4 wpg of T5 light without major algae issues (insanely jealous), noticed your first post said 24" as opposed to 24w, and thought they might be 24" 18w tubes, which would have made more sense to me.
> 
> I have a 55w AH supply retrofit over my 33g tank for 1.66 wpg and prior to adding regular large doses of excel, I was having constant BBA and GSA issues. Even with 20 ml of excel a day, I still have some BBA (and my vals hate me).
> 
> All I can figure now is your floaters are really cutting down the intensity into the tank, or your fish must be really heavy breathers to kick out enough CO2 to keep up with that light. :confused1: Or maybe these are NO T5 and not HO. (??)
> 
> I guess when my excel runs out, I'll try removing the reflector from my light, and/or add a bunch of floating plants, maybe hunt down some of those fish that are training for the olympics too.


No each bulb is 24 watts. The original fixture comes with 2 14w bulbs, but I and a friend did some work on the fixture and sort of overdrived it and replaced the original bulbs. By all rights, there should be algae everywhere but I just think I'm really lucky. The plants must grow fast enough to outcompete most of the algae. There is a little GSA here and there, but nothing too bad.

I do have some floating plants (Salvinia minima and Duckweed) and the big lotus with enough floating leaves to keep the tank pretty dim. I don't use CO2 or Excel either. I had DIY CO2 a while back but kinda forgot about it.



Karackle said:


> Not to thread-jack but I thought i'd throw out there that until I added floaters to my 10g tank i had major algae problems, I think they help for 2 reasons, 1 is the obvious reason which is that they cut down on the actual light getting through but the second is that they proliferate very quickly and therefore, i believe, are great nutrient sponges.
> 
> If that helps


My floaters can cover the entire surface of the tank in two weeks time, so I'm thinking they are probably the key to no algae, for both of the reasons you said, Karackle.


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## B16CRXT

great tank! I hope I don't get any algae problems when I add my new light. 130 watts over a 20 gallon during the burst period. I might just keep my Lotus to block some of the light if it is too intense. lol


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## legomaniac89

Thanks Chris

Maybe it's just me but these pictures seem _really_ dark. I'll try to dig out the tripod tonight and get some better pictures with the shutter open longer.


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## Hilde

Cheesehead Cory said:


> Like others here, I was trying to figure out how you're getting away with 2.4 wpg of T5 light without major algae issues (insanely jealous).
> 
> I have a 55w AH supply retrofit over my 33g tank for 1.66 wpg and prior to adding regular large doses of excel, I was having constant BBA and GSA issues. Even with 20 ml of excel a day, I still have some BBA (and my vals hate me).


I had a similar situation until I dosed with diluted solution of KNO3 for a week. I think this balanced the ecosystem because my tap water is high in phosphates, has no gh or kh. I had also taken all of the plants, except vals, out and misted them with excel.


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## houstonhobby

This tank is great! It looks like pretty low stocking rates. That is one of the keys to the Walstad vision.


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## pKaz

I have the same tank and the same light, although I do have algae but I know I'm doing several things wrong.......I'm curious as to how you have "over driven" the fixture? I'm guessing you would of had to change the ballast out, otherwise you would just be under driving 24w HO bulbs at 14w? Care to share you modification?




legomaniac89 said:


> No each bulb is 24 watts. The original fixture comes with 2 14w bulbs, but I and a friend did some work on the fixture and sort of overdrived it and replaced the original bulbs. By all rights, there should be algae everywhere but I just think I'm really lucky. The plants must grow fast enough to outcompete most of the algae. There is a little GSA here and there, but nothing too bad.


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## Erin

> This tank is great! It looks like pretty low stocking rates. That is one of the keys to the Walstad vision.


I keep soil based tanks as well and don't have any problem with overstocking. I keep my tanks bustling with fish. I generally follow the inch per gallon rule when stocking my tanks.

Regards,
Erin


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## legomaniac89

pKaz said:


> I have the same tank and the same light, although I do have algae but I know I'm doing several things wrong.......I'm curious as to how you have "over driven" the fixture? I'm guessing you would of had to change the ballast out, otherwise you would just be under driving 24w HO bulbs at 14w? Care to share you modification?


Honestly....I don't know :icon_redf. My friend did all the work, and he's done this with several fixtures before. I know he did some work on the ballast, but other than that I don't know. I'm pretty technologically challenged when it comes to stuff like this 
FWIW, I do have bits of GSA, but very little.



Erin said:


> I keep soil based tanks as well and don't have any problem with overstocking. I keep my tanks bustling with fish. I generally follow the inch per gallon rule when stocking my tanks.
> 
> Regards,
> Erin


Thanks Erin, I didn't really follow the "inch per gallon" rule when stocking the tank, I just added fish until it looked good to me. I do follow Walstad's examples when it comes to fertilizing. I don't. I just feed my fish well and let the leftover food release the nutrients the plants need.

Hmmm, I guess it's about time for an update. I'll try to get some good pics and get them up here


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## legomaniac89

Still waiting for the side and middle to fill in










I love this lotus


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## jfrank85

Always going on about this dang tank lol.  Looks great man. Now all you need is some room for that C. blassii.


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## legomaniac89

I've got an open corner. I'm thinking one's gonna go there.

Good lord, I just realized how many MTS there are in that Java Moss. I had to turn the lights back on to snap the pic and they were everywhere lol


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## jfrank85

Little bastards.


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## B16CRXT

lol, MTS multiply like crazy! I bought 5 Thiara Winteri about a month ago and I already have at least 30 of them in my 10 gallon. Most are still very tiny babies, but they are there! They are all over the plants and stuff doing cleanup work! lol


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## kvntran

nice tank! I bought the same book a few months ago but never had the time to read it thoroughly, I guess I should start reading it seriously.

My signature has a link to my 50 gallon tank, considered high tech, dosing Tom Barr's regiment.... nice growth and all, but got tired of keeping up with the trimming and water changes. Automatically, it turns to low tech  stop refilling co2, no fert, no water changes, no trimming... like you, I only do water change about 2 to 3 times a year.

I will take a few pictures after this post, and post it here to share with you and others.

Update: I just add a few pictures.

Kevin


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## nytowl83

I stand in awe.... 

with a full time schedule i am also leaning towards tanks like these... Legomaniac's and Kevin's tanks are something to drooool about


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## legomaniac89

Thanks nytowl! Go low-tech, you won't regret it at all. The only thing I do with this tank on a daily basis is feed the fish.

Mini update - the Florida Sunsets are growing in pretty well and I added an Apono ulvaceus bulb in the back left corner for some green. Just gotta wait for it to grow out for a few weeks


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## legomaniac89

Doooooo biiiiii doooooo....still growing, albeit slowly


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## nytowl83

Any updates Legomaniac?


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## legomaniac89

nytowl83 said:


> Any updates Legomaniac?


Sure, no prob. I'm not sure if it looks much different from the last pics, but here ya go.










Massive Cryptocoryne wendtii









A few fish pics - A couple of my 8 Glowlights









Aequidens curviceps (or whatever the genus-species name is now)









Big SAE









My male GBR trying to be camera shy









I just did a water change, hence the bubbles everywhere. I don't think true pearling is biologically possible in a tank this low-tech :biggrin:. The only thing fast about this tank is the friggin duckweed everywhere. That stuff grows fast no matter what tank it's in.


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## sean117Ply

Cool thread, those bi-yearly water changes sound intriguing...

I'm setting up (well revamping) a planted discus aquarium.
What would be the main dot points of achieving a tank that is almost
self sustaining like yours?

Potting soil? Like garden centre potting soil?

That java moss? 

And low light and no Co2?


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## B16CRXT

I doubt his is low light. Pretty sure he isn't running co2...he can clarify further on the soil type. I know you don't want anything with fertilizers in it.


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## NicoleRC

I love this tank! I'm really hoping to keep my 90 gallon super low maintenance. I've also used a soil substrate, do you think that is really the key? I'm happy to see you don't have a ton of stems in there, because I'm going with mostly swords in my tank. How important do you think the moss is to your success with this tank?


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## legomaniac89

sean117Ply said:


> Cool thread, those bi-yearly water changes sound intriguing...
> 
> I'm setting up (well revamping) a planted discus aquarium.
> What would be the main dot points of achieving a tank that is almost
> self sustaining like yours?
> 
> *Potting soil? Like garden centre potting soil?
> 
> That java moss?
> 
> And low light and no Co2?*


Thanks for reading. I'd say it's a combination of all three points you have there. I closely followed Diana Walstad's example in Ecology of the Planted Aquarium with this tank. There is a 1" layer of Fertilome Seedling and Cutting Starter topped off with another 1" layer of regular Flourite. The soil gives the plants all the nutrients they need, and according to Walstad, it has enough nutrients to last the plants for years. Plus there are billions of bacteria and microbes that live in and on the substrate to break down anything bad. I also have around a zillion MTS to help keep the soil from going anaerobic.

That mat of Java Moss is around 24" x 6" x 4", not loosely packed either. Between that and my Marineland C-160 canister that is over 3/4 biological filtration, there's virtually no buildup of ammonia or even nitrates.

I never dose fertilizers or use CO2 either. Excess nutrients in the water column tend to cause algae in this tank because the plants don't grow fast enough to take them up quickly. 

The one downside to low tech is that they're not very exciting. The plants grow a ton slower than in my high-tech 20 long. I suppose that can be a good thing too, though.



B16CRXT said:


> I doubt his is low light. Pretty sure he isn't running co2...he can clarify further on the soil type. I know you don't want anything with fertilizers in it.


I'd say it's on the higher end of the low light scale. I'm running a Coralife T5 2x18W fixture. I did have an overdriven fixture that was 2x24W of T5, but the ballast fizzled out on me a while back. So it's a total of 36W of T5 over 20 gallons of water. 



NicoleRC said:


> I love this tank! I'm really hoping to keep my 90 gallon super low maintenance. I've also used a soil substrate, do you think that is really the key? I'm happy to see you don't have a ton of stems in there, because I'm going with mostly swords in my tank. How important do you think the moss is to your success with this tank?


Thanks! Like I said up above, I think a soil substrate, ungodly amounts of biological filtration, minimal ferts and CO2 and lower light are all key to keeping this thing so low tech. The swords you are going to use are primarily root feeders and don't take much up through the water column, so they should be ok.

I think the Java Moss is pretty important to this tank. Right before I did my last water change, I tested the nitrates and they were about 5ppm. All those nitrates have to be going somewhere, and I figured the moss was probably the best candidate.

Oh, and as much as I hate it, duckweed really helps too. It can completely cover the top of my tank in 3 weeks time and they are one heck of a nutrient sponge.


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## Hilde

I have been working a getting a self sustaining tank for a year. I think the main mistake I have made is picking plants that require high light to show red colors. 

Trallen44 is another one whom has a self sustaining tank. 

From what I have observed it seems adding ferts in the substrate helps decrease need for column ferts. Also the gh, kh and ph will affect the need for ferts.


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## legomaniac89

It's been quite a while since I've updated this one. Thing is, I don't think that the tank looks any different from my last update, other than that huge C. wendtii just keeps shooting out daughter plants all over the tank.

The lighting in this room is terrible. I can't seem to get a good picture of the tank without there being reflections everywhere.










My male GBR, showing off for the camera


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## Hilde

Is the crypt the tall bronze plant on the right?


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## legomaniac89

Hilde said:


> Is the crypt the tall bronze plant on the right?


Yup. It's over 22" tall easily and the base is around 8" wide


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## problemman

what is your ground cover, how do contain the lily and what kind of anubias is that?


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## legomaniac89

The big green mass in front is Java Moss. I don't do much with the lotus other than clip off the aerial leaves about once a month. Otherwise it shades the entire tank. The Anubias is the run of the mill _Anubias barteri var. nana_.


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## B16CRXT

yea I used to have a Lotus in my 20H. those things will really absorb all the light over the tank if you dont clip them down! I would easily clip 13 leaves and it would still be very full looking. I just cut the ones that would grow to reach across the tank. Now my problem is cuban ludwigia and E. Vesuvius that blocks light. I dont have room on the ground for the vesuvius so I just let it grow out into the water column. kinda cool looking to see a chain plants grow so well out in the open with only the main plant being planted.

I love the look of your tank man.


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## H82LOS3

Wow u do water change every 6 months!!!

damn ur crazy, but hey i love the tank


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## kwheeler91

can you post and update of this tank? it just inspired me to go low tech roud:


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## legomaniac89

Wow, I hadn't realized it had been so long since I updated this thing. I'm really glad this tank is rock-stable cause I've had minimal time to devote to this tank ever since school took over my life. It's pretty well overgrown at this point. Excuse the low water. And the algae on the glass. And the thick jungle of plants badly needing a trim.










The only plant I've added to the tank in the past year: _Cryptocoryne usteriana_


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## vtkid

ive got that same algae on the bottom of the glass in the front, or i should say algae in the same location. it is a real pain to get off especially on a bowfront. this is a real jungle i gotta say..


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## kwheeler91

i like the jungle look of the tank, its only fitting that it looks like it hasnt been messed with if you actually dont mess with it


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## bmedeiros678

legomaniac89 said:


> By the way, my inspiration for this came from "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad. She is all about low-tech tanks and she is an absolute genius when it comes to the science of aquariums. QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks for the info.


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## plantbrain

Good management decision to go to non CO2, but if you add Excel, that's not really non Carbon enrichment, you still amplify and enhance growth, need to dose etc that product.

Many stop doing that, then get algae, some do not however(and are pleasantly surprised). 

Another simple easy method that illustrates non CO2 with sediment is using the water column. 

This is a tank without a water change for 2 years:










Not the lack of soil.
Just plain gravel and once a week tiny dosing of ferts to the water column.
Demand is small, so management/rates of growth are easy. While I came up with this approach, it was more to answer a question about algae and the water column.

Still, using both locations offers a really easy method, and minimal management/user input, while still yielding nice results over time and more species possibilities.

Dosing the water column once a week is not particularly tough.
If you have fish and feed them, then you fertilize the water column also.

Soils should last a very long time however, and longer with reduced rates of growth. I encourage other folks to try the non CO2 method. You can go sediments, no sediments, water column, no water column, Excel or not etc.
Certainly easier management, less algae issues.

Nice to try if you already have CO2 aquariums, as these cost less and require less of your time. One of the least labor method around. No testing, no water changes, no regularly pruning.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## legomaniac89

Thanks guys! Tom, I dose nothing in this tank. Not even Excel. The only fertilization the tank gets is from the food that doesn't get eaten. The fish get fed every other day and they get fed well . The only algae I've ever really had is the stuff you see on the glass in the last pic. 

The tank is a nice change from my high tech, CO2/EI 20 long. I've been tempted to start dosing in this tank, but it's so stable that I'm afraid of screwing up the balance. I figure that the plants are growing well without additional ferts, so that's good enough for me.


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## demonbreedr16

This is my inspiration for the 55!  I LOVE this tank!

Would you be willing to send me some pieces of those plants, eventually???


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## legomaniac89

Thanks bud! Just let me know what plants you're looking for.

Got a new camera and I've been screwing around with some settings while taking pictures of this tank. I actually managed to get a pic without any blatant glares on the front glass! I think that's a first for this tank.










I made a fish change too. I took out all the old fish (except the one SAE that still eludes me) and put in 2 Chocolate Gouramis and 3 Sparkling Gouramis. The Chocolates are quite photogenic. The Sparklings are anything but.










Lastly, this was taken with the junky Canon 18-55mm stock lens. Not bad, if I do say so myself :biggrin:


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## legomaniac89

These guys are so freakin' cute! I don't even like gouramis, but these Chocolates are so cool!










Some 60 pics later, here's the best shot I could get of one of the Sparklings. They've got some attitude for being so small :icon_bigg


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## B16CRXT

I LOVE gouramis. I had one before, but he developed a sore on his side and it just got worse and worse until he finally died.


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## jman

Chocolate gouramis are great fish. Hoping mine might spawn, but I don't think they will.


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## webgirl74

Wow, this is such a fantastic thread! I have a low tech planted 20 gallon, but nothing this spectacular. Legomaniac89, do you think this can be accomplished fairly easily on a larger tank? I have a 55 gallon that I am going to be setting up shortly (used to keep Malawi cichlids in it, but I'm gravitating back to a community tank, which is where my heart is) and I'm thinking of trying a set-up like yours as I too just don't have endless hours to spend fawning over a tank. If I use the potting/seedling soil on the bottom, do you think I could potentially use pool filter sand over it? I have another big bag full of it that I was going to use, but perhaps it would be too heavy.


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## legomaniac89

B16CRXT said:


> I LOVE gouramis. I had one before, but he developed a sore on his side and it just got worse and worse until he finally died.





jman said:


> Chocolate gouramis are great fish. Hoping mine might spawn, but I don't think they will.


They're cool little fish, that's for sure. Unfortunately, I think I have two males, so they might need to be separated in the future.



webgirl74 said:


> Wow, this is such a fantastic thread! I have a low tech planted 20 gallon, but nothing this spectacular. Legomaniac89, do you think this can be accomplished fairly easily on a larger tank? I have a 55 gallon that I am going to be setting up shortly (used to keep Malawi cichlids in it, but I'm gravitating back to a community tank, which is where my heart is) and I'm thinking of trying a set-up like yours as I too just don't have endless hours to spend fawning over a tank. If I use the potting/seedling soil on the bottom, do you think I could potentially use pool filter sand over it? I have another big bag full of it that I was going to use, but perhaps it would be too heavy.


Thanks! It could definitely be done in a larger tank. More water volume = more stability so it would be even easier to maintain. I'd actually say that 20 gallons is probably the minimum size for a super-low-maintenance tank. You could cap the soil with anything you want, really. The finer the grain size, the more debris will collect on top when you're digging around the tank, so keep that in mind. Just make sure that the soil you use is a no-fertilizers-added soil.


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## legomaniac89

We got a bunch of Banjo Cats in at my work today! I've been wanting some of these guys forever, so I snagged 3 of them for this tank. I got my pics now cause I know once they go into the tank I'll probably never see them again


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## lauraleellbp

Been a long time since I've seen those... nice snag!

(How can you find ANYTHING in your jungly tank? )

(I like jungle tanks, BTW...)


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## jman

Aren't those things so nocturnal, you can just pick them up during the daytime? (if you can find them)


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## legomaniac89

lauraleellbp said:


> Been a long time since I've seen those... nice snag!
> 
> (How can you find ANYTHING in your jungly tank? )
> 
> (I like jungle tanks, BTW...)


Thanks Laura! I've been searching for Banjos for a long time now. I about pooped myself when I saw them on my supplier's instock list :hihi:



jman said:


> Aren't those things so nocturnal, you can just pick them up during the daytime? (if you can find them)


Yup, that's a Banjo. They pretty much hibernate during the day.


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## kwheeler91

i used to have 5 or 6 of them. they turn into little fattys  they are nocturnal but if you use like a dim led light or candle or something you will see them swimming all over the tank and up and down the glass together after the lights have been off for a little while.


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## Karackle

Very cool looking fish! Congrats on the snag!


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## skratikans

really nice setup!


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## morf2540

Hi, I am deeply envious!. Can I assume no water changes means no vacuuming? So you just let the debris take care of itself? Do you suppose there's a correlation between leaving in all the junk and not needing to fertilize?

As an aside, I also read the Walstead book and was converted.. tried to set up a soil-based tank but was overcome by the overwhelming messiness. Threw it out and used flourite. Now getting ready to set up a second tank and looking to go low-tech....


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## CL

I have had a banjo cat for about 4 years now. I have seen him about four times in those four years haha.


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## legomaniac89

Thanks everyone!



morf2540 said:


> Hi, I am deeply envious!. Can I assume no water changes means no vacuuming? So you just let the debris take care of itself? Do you suppose there's a correlation between leaving in all the junk and not needing to fertilize?


Let's see...thanks, yes, yes, and yes 



> As an aside, I also read the Walstead book and was converted.. tried to set up a soil-based tank but was overcome by the overwhelming messiness. Threw it out and used flourite. Now getting ready to set up a second tank and looking to go low-tech....


True, using potting soil can be pretty messy, but if the setup is similar to mine where you rarely pull up any plants, it's not too bad. The key to no fertilization here is, like you said, not vacuuming the substrate and using mostly heavy root feeders. The only stems I have in the tank is _R. rotundifolia_, and enough nutrients leach from the soil and uneaten food to keep that one happy.


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## Whiskeyfox

After reading over your thread here I made the decision to remove my DIY Co2. Just finished removing it, let's see how things go


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## legomaniac89

Not much has changed here. The Java Moss is finally growing back after my big SAE turned it into a salad bar.

Excuse the low water level










Say it with me: nom nom nom nom. You should see those Banjos go after blackworms. It's almost carnage :hihi:


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## bettamax

*So Beautiful*

Truly amazing. Questions- 

How much of a water change do you do when you pull or add a plant? 
How do you keep the moss down to make it a mat?
What are MTS? I assume it's a type of snail, but you mentioned something about them keeping the soil aerobic... what's that all about?

I have an 18 tall which is planted, lo light lo tech and stable, doing well, but it looks sparse compared to yours. My snails have gotten out of control and I don't know what if anything I should be doing about them. I don't know what kind of snails they are, but some are circular and some more conical, all super small. They don't seem to get much bigger...

Thanks for the great post and updates! I will probably PM you with some pics about my tank and see if you can offer me some advice. Thank you!! :icon_mrgr


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## legomaniac89

bettamax said:


> Truly amazing. Questions-
> 
> How much of a water change do you do when you pull or add a plant?
> How do you keep the moss down to make it a mat?
> What are MTS? I assume it's a type of snail, but you mentioned something about them keeping the soil aerobic... what's that all about?
> 
> I have an 18 tall which is planted, lo light lo tech and stable, doing well, but it looks sparse compared to yours. My snails have gotten out of control and I don't know what if anything I should be doing about them. I don't know what kind of snails they are, but some are circular and some more conical, all super small. They don't seem to get much bigger...
> 
> Thanks for the great post and updates! I will probably PM you with some pics about my tank and see if you can offer me some advice. Thank you!! :icon_mrgr


Thanks a lot! I don't usually do wc's after I pull a plant from this tank. To be honest, I can't remember the last time I did pull a plant from this tank . When the tank was set up, the moss was tied to some rocks in the front, but since then it's kinda pulled itself loose and just stayed there. I don't so anything special to keep it there.

MTS is short for Malaysian Trumpet Snail. I don't have any pics at the moment, but they burrow into the substrate during the day and come out for food at night. Since they're constantly digging through the dirt, it keeps anaerobic pockets from building up and causing problems. H2S is nasty stuff if it surfaces. MTS can also be an acronym for Multiple Tank Syndrome, which I also have 

I personally like snails as long as they don't start eating my plants. A while back I had a ramshorn outbreak and I grabbed a single Burmese Loach to clean them up. 3 days later, I had no snails and one very fat loach. He's since passed on, but IMO loaches are about the best way to control snails, short of picking them off manually.


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## legomaniac89

Here's a pic I just got of my bigger male Sparkling Gourami


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## bettamax

> MTS is short for Malaysian Trumpet Snail. I don't have any pics at the moment, but they burrow into the substrate during the day and come out for food at night. Since they're constantly digging through the dirt, it keeps anaerobic pockets from building up and causing problems. H2S is nasty stuff if it surfaces. MTS can also be an acronym for Multiple Tank Syndrome, which I also have
> 
> I personally like snails as long as they don't start eating my plants. A while back I had a ramshorn outbreak and I grabbed a single Burmese Loach to clean them up. 3 days later, I had no snails and one very fat loach. He's since passed on, but IMO loaches are about the best way to control snails, short of picking them off manually.


[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info! My 18h low light low tech has aquasoil on the bottom layer, so I worry about stirring stuff up from the bottom, because I know that stuff is nutrient rich, and I don't want an algae bloom, but I want to add some more plants in the back. I forget the name of the substrate on top of that, but it is black and has different sized grains, and it came "pre-cycled." Do you know what I'm talking about? 

I never thought about the anaerobic layer in this tank, because I figured the plant roots took care of that bad stuff, but I had some H2S in my first tank (not planted, I was just beginning to learn about aquariums, the hard way obviously) and it was really bad. What are your thoughts? My substrate is pretty deep too. I will post pics as soon as I can get some good ones. I also might want to add some fish, but I'm not sure my tank is big enough for a loach... They're cute though! I love your tank and your fish!!! I also really like your succulent tank! Thanks for sharing!


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## Sigmar

*220 Gallon build*

I just got my 220 gallon in and your thread has inspired and given me more confidence that a low tech tank is feasible. My tank was originally sw therefore it has 2 overflow boxes and therefore predrilled. So I'm trying to decide how well a sump/refugium filtration would work. I have several low tech planted tanks but nothing like yours, good job. I will be getting the afore mentioned book soon. Thanks for the thread.


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## legomaniac89

Thanks guys!

Bettamax -you mean Eco-Complete? It comes packaged in water so it's already "pre-cycled". If your substrate is pretty deep, I'd definitely try to find some MTS. Plants will help take care of some of the anaerobic areas, but they can only do so much. If there's an area where plant growth is light, anaerobic bacteria can easily proliferate there, especially if your substrate is rich in nutrients.

Sigmar - Be sure to document your build here! I always enjoy seeing big low-tech tanks. They make me wish I had more floor space and electrical outlets


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## BeachBum2012

Tank looks very nice. I keep thinking about trying one of these setups. Looks like fun


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## legomaniac89

I'm having a lot of fun with this new macro lens 

These Banjo Cats are so lazy...










Amano feeding frenzy!










A better pic of my biggest Sparkling (_almost_ in focus)


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## Hilde

Betta Max said:


> My 18h low light low tech has aquasoil on the bottom layer, so I worry about stirring stuff up from the bottom, because I know that stuff is nutrient rich, and I don't want an algae bloom
> 
> I never thought about the anaerobic layer in this tank, because I figured the plant roots took care of that bad stuff. What are your thoughts?


You could just poke the substrate with something similar to a toothpick and that would release any collection of gas. The gas does not mean anything bad unless doesn't smells rotten


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## problemman

i miss my sparkling gourami!!! i want more!


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## John L

*Great thread!*

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and have learned a lot. I just set up a low tech tank but I used all Eco-Complete for my substrate because I read Walstad's book AFTER I had already set it up. It's a 20H and so far I just have 10 red cherry shrimp in it. No filtration other than a submersible powerhead with a sponge over the intake to keep from sucking up the shrimp. Lighting is about 2 watts per gallon. Plants include corkscrew val, lots of java fern, some crypts, anubias, small swords, etc. I threw a bunch of stuff together to see what will make it in my tank and what won't. If all goes well, I plan on adding fish in a few weeks. I'm wishing now I had read Walstad's book first and gone the soil route but I want to see how this tank does before I rip it up and start over. I have no CO2 supplementation and don't plan on using any or fertilizer either.


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## fastfreddie

Awesome fish man! I love this tank. Low tech rocks!


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## lauraleellbp

I really like that gourami pic. Nice work!


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## Guest

This is an awesome thread. It has a wealth of information. Tank looks great, thanks for sharing.


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## antere07

your tank looks immense


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## legomaniac89

Thanks everyone!

Yay moonlights


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## legomaniac89

This guy's still chugging along. I did a massive _Rotala_ trim on this guy earlier and pulled a solid 3/4 gallon of plants from this tank. I also moved all the fish from my 20 long into this scape (numerous Ember Tetras, an _Ancistrus_, and a couple Nerites).

The tank looks pretty empty at the moment since I tore out half the plants, so no pics yet. I'll try to get those in a week or so.


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## CaseyC

Your tank looks great. Hope my tank can get to this one day. 

I have a 32H? Its about 26" tall so your tank gives me hope. 
You have 50w total of T5 above your tank?


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## legomaniac89

CaseyC said:


> Your tank looks great. Hope my tank can get to this one day.
> 
> I have a 32H? Its about 26" tall so your tank gives me hope.
> You have 50w total of T5 above your tank?


Thanks! I have 2 18W bulbs over this guy. It's just the standard Coralife T5NO fixture.


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## Hilde

I remember someone posted a thread on diy moonlight. Was it you? If so would you post a link to it, please.


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## Lil' Swimz$

The gourami cute. I have one too, with my shrimp, and I need to get him outta there, he likes to pick around.

I like the moonlights! Beautiful tank, good work.


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## blackace22

Awsome tank ! love the catfish


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## Matty

Great thread looking to redo my 10g low tech. convinced!


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## legomaniac89

Thanks everyone!

I really need to update this thing. The tank's not much different than the last pics, except the _C. usteriana_ in the back in getting seriously massive. I'll try to post some pics sometime soon here.


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## Cardinal Tetra

Is this tank still around?


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## extrame

been reading this thread for past few days. im very interested in how you have set up your tank. i hope i could set up mine like yours.

question about substrate, can i use mixed soil for my 1st layer then cap of with pea gravel?
the mix soil is a combination of soil and dried leaves and tree bark. 

tanks in advance


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## Hilde

extrame said:


> Can i use mixed soil for my 1st layer then cap of with pea gravel? the mix soil is a combination of soil and dried leaves and tree bark.


It is possible to use pea gravel if it is small enough to keep the dirt down. To a trial in a bucket or tupper ware item. If it doesn't hold the dirt down you can put a fingers width of sand over it and then add the pea gravel. Some nursery's or landscapers will allow you to take a little for a small aquarium. Just need to bring a bucket. 

If the mixed soil doesn't have bark from sap trees you can use it. May affect your ph.


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## extrame

Thanks for the quick reply Hilde!

Nope, correction, the person in the gardening shop told me that it was just made from soil and rice husk. is that any good? wouldn't the decaying rice husk be a problem in the long run? 

there was also another type of potting soil they were selling, it was a mix of soil, crushed rice husk and vermicas, would that be better for aquatic plants or just plain top soil is best?

is it ok to put bleach in the soil/substrate to clean out algae before cycling tank?

sorry for all the questions, im new to the natural planted aquarium so i wanted to do it right from the start


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## Hilde

extrame said:


> The person in the gardening shop told me that it was just made from soil and rice husk. Wouldn't the decaying rice husk be a problem in the long run?


You should start a thread, for this is considered hijacking.

I found you have a thread but none have responded. Excuse all for the hijacking. I shall go to his thread. 

I use reptile coconut bark as bottom layer. For read at Tom Barr Report that mulch adds Co2 to the substrate. With it in substrate only have to dose only 5ml of Excel daily to 29G tank.


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