# t5 for plants



## nemo (Oct 7, 2003)

im currently using t5 lumilux daylight 860
is there any special t5 for plants like "gru-lux" by sylvania ?


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## Zurp (Sep 27, 2003)

I would try switching to a T-8 full spectrum bulb, like "Life-Glo" or some other specific light range. The T-5 bulbs have less volumized distance light, so you will need twice as many. The T-5 is way better than an incandescent light, and better than a halogen spotlight... but you may need two of those to provide what a T-8 can provide.

I purchased a similar light from "Stop-N-Shop", when I first started. It only had enough power at 55W to keep a low-light fern alive. It could also be used to compliment natural low light, to tun that area into a medium light area... or a medium into a high light area.

If you have to penetrate water levels deeper than 1 foot, or air deeper than 2 feet, then you don't want those. If you are looking to only iluminate things like moss, then this is perfect. I would use a T-5 for display, and use that with a T-8 for actual growth, or living.

They are more of an economical choice, which always translates into sacrifice, or extended hidden expenses...

When you read how they "PAY FOR THEMSELVES", this usualy refers to offices with thousands of lights, that were once T-12 bulbs, which extend well over two stories with useful light... The T-5 extends to desk level... which was more apropriate for offices. Which is why shallow tank lovers like these "MATCHED" lights, because they once had T-12 in thier 50 gallon long or 50 gallon wide, which are both shallow.

If they ever wanted that same volume of light they would need about 8 of these bulbs... which would actually drain more as the balasts aged, and power became more demanding from the decaying bulbs.

These also are loved by Light-Board users, because having twenty thin bulbs that are balanced is better than having tow or three bright bulbs which creates a noticable band across a light board... where as the twenty T-5 bulbs creates a light wall effect, with almost no strong bands.

They also need a 6inch reflector to produce what testing results show, test results are NOT from a raw bulb... like most T-8 tests are. The tests also refer to "APARENT BRIGHTNESS" which translates into, "Well, they look brighter!" Which is why they make great "DISPLAY" lights, for viewing pleasure.

Here is some articles on T-5 bulbs...
This is general box info...
http://www.aquaencounter.com/aboutthelights.html
This is the comparison savings when you purchase thousands... to replace T-12 bulbs...
http://www.autocell.net/wsn39D5.html
http://www.ipe.nt.gov.au/divisions/infrastructure/ems/news/
This is what you would have to spend to get an equal value to lights that actualy grow stuf, in the T-5 size... Over $200... Compared to an equal $100 T-8 setup, and an equal $50 T-12 setup...
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/specialty-lights/teklightaqua.html
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/horticulture/products/fixtures_tek.shtml
Testimonials from actual growers... Mostly they say the light closest to the bulb is super bright, and further, there isn't enough to grow stuff... They have to constantly trim the faster growing top plants to stop them from smothering light for lower plants.
http://pub157.ezboard.com/fthetropicaltankdiscussionforum41828frm27.showMessage?topicID=194.topic
http://www.thekrib.com/Lights/fluor-goldwasser.html


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Zurp, I've read every link you've posted. It seems that most of the links actually support the use of T-5 bulbs with the exception of the last article at the krib which is dated 1997. Other than the T-5 light you bought at the grocery store, how much experience do you actually have with T-5 lights?

Your advice is not accurate. 

A 4ft T-5 bulb is equivalent to the light output of a 55watt PC bulb only better. It's better because the bulb is not bent in half like a PC bulb is therby reducing restrike between the 2 halves. Thats right,.. a T-5 bulb is basically a PC bulb straightened out. A 55 wattPC bulb gives off way more light than a 4ft 32 watt T-8 and so does a 55 watt T-5.


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## Zurp (Sep 27, 2003)

The questionable area was with the distance at which the usable light of one tube would fall off. I posted all articles that I found so that people could come to their own conclusion.

How do you compare these?
A 4ft 32 watt T-8 
A 4ft 55 watt T-5
The 55 watt is brighter because it is 23 Watts more than the T-8.
The spectrum for a T-5 is three solid spikes of R G B = White...
The spectrum for a T-8 (That I refereed to) mimics the sun spectrum...
NOTE: except for UV and IR and X and Gamma...

All the users also state that they needed more lights. If one T-5 replaces one T-12, and you save 40%... but you then need two, because the light isn't enough... you are now spending 20% more than the single T-12.

That 40% savings was also the initial savings of replacing OLD T-12 with New T-5. Old bulbs use more power to deliver the same light. The ballast balances the demand...

These bulbs have been used for years in jewelry display cases. Only expensive special brands, which cost as much as a T-8, produce higher output light. However, they do not have great plant-growing spectrum.

That is why I placed those articles there... and I also did this because no-one has answered this post since he put it here...

All the aquarium versions of T-5 lights have four bulbs, for minimum light, where as the T-8 setups have two bulbs. The bulbs are cheap, but the ballasts that make them work best are three times more expensive. The reflectors are also more expensive, and NEEDED... (Those mini reflectors are not going to make this light give the same results as the required 6in. reflectors that the, "Manufacture", requires. The mini reflectors are still better than an unreflected bulb.

I am not a professor at these lights, I can SEE that they are brighter if you are 12in. away... but at 42in... the T-5 is not brighter.


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## Zurp (Sep 27, 2003)

I will get one bulb of each, with approximately equal values and show you the reflection test that I normally do.

I am not saying that they are bad, if you have a shallow tank and you only want to make your plants live... then this is perfect. However, if you want your plants Low and High, in a deep tank to grow fast, you need a T-8 or T-12, or more T-5's.

But, yes they do have "Special" grow lights in T-5 style. We used them at the nursery for all of our freshly sprouting plants. They normally run for about half of the cost of the same rated T-8 bulb... 

EG...
15W 18in. T-8 Full Noon Spectrum = $15 - $30
20W 18in. T-5 Full Noon Spectrum = $7 - $18
(You get what you pay for... old or low pressure bulbs sell for less.)

One more thing about T-5, they were designed with higher pressures because they yield more light that way, more than T-5 Low pressure. They don't, "ALL", have, "Smart Ballasts". Most light rigs still use the standard setup, which will use the same amount of power as a T-8...

To get the "Savings" that they mention, you need the expensive digital/electronic smart balast... Which works like this. When you power on, a high voltage charges before the light turns on. Half a second later, the high voltage charge fires through the bulb, starting the glow. When the ballast detects the closed circuit, the voltage drops down to its desired level. As time wears on, (Months), the voltage drop does not fall as low, because it requires more power to keep the circuit closed. When the idle current is finally not enough, the light just stops working. (Unlike a normal T-8 setup, which will flicker and pulse before burning out.)

The bulb is just one part of the setup. Ultimately you have to think about the entire thing. Bulb, Reflector, Size, Wattage, Ballast, Color, Light-Range, Spectrum, Heat, and Desired Effect.
http://article.dphnet.com/cat-04/lightcompare.shtml
http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare1.htm
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/t5reflectcomparo.shtml

One more link, this has the exact bulbs you originally asked the question about.
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/fluorescent_lamps.shtml

One last link...
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/hort/g06515.htm


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## sanj (Jan 11, 2004)

Hmmm...??

I have just bought 2x 54w T5 lights it suppliment my 4 x 30W T8 tubes which are not enough for planted aqaurium (120 x 50 x 70).

reviews I have read in the UK is that T5 are supposed to have deeper penetration than T8's and are brighter. They are being particularly targeted at marine keepers who have deeper tanks and are using many t8s for coral and invert growth etc. In a highlty regarded aquarium magazine it made reference that aqaurium s with T5's would require fewer tubes than if using T8s.

The standard aquarium light in europe has long been the T8, T12's are not readily available and the T5 are being marketed as a better tube.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=75

Anyway i have now 228w in my aquarium, is this suitable for plants?[/url]


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

It is all about wattage. If you use 54W T5's, you will need 4 of them to get 216W. You will need about 7 32W T8's to get the same lighting level. Basic math, and wattage.


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## sanj (Jan 11, 2004)

Wasser my new tank is also approx 100 US gallons after displacement (~116 before). What are your tank dimensions? i tthink you have a longer lower tank than mine.

I have just received the T5s today, the aquarium s definatley brighter just hope enough for good planting.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I think you should be alright to grow most plants. My tank dimensions are 60x18x23, yours is quite a bit taller, so for plants with higher requirements you might need more light. In my example I wasn't really referring to your tank, just meant to say that the statement "you need twice as many T5s than T8s" doesn't make any sense. Especially drawing that conclusion from looking at 4 bulb T5 and 2 bulb T8 fixtures.


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## 05dr (Nov 28, 2003)

Wasserpest, are watt's the best way to compare t8 and t5HO bulbs? a 54w t5 ho bulb, prior to being reflected, puts out about twice the lumens/par of a single 32w t8 with no overdriving and no reflector. i guess that doesn't surprise anyone considering it is almost twice the watt's. however, when you then consider how much the output is increased by the individual relfector's http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/t5reflectcomparo.shtml i don't think 2 t8's could even come close to one t5 bulb. that is without overdriving which, if done with an icecap ballast, can result in large increases in lumen's/par while still getting atleast 2 years out of the daylight bulbs. i havn't cranked out the math but if lumens/lux/par is ones guide, then it would seem to me that one could get away with very few properly reflected t5 bulbs over most planted tanks.

my issue with t5 is the lack different bulbs to get the right look in ones tank and the lack of ballasts which run multiple 80W 60" bulbs(my tank is 60"  ).


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

You are right, the reflector makes a huge difference, and with good reflectors you would get away with few (HO) T5 bulbs. I have the same tank length like you, and problems to find an easy way to get an even coverage with regular fluorescents. I stuck with 48" bulbs, there seems to be a better selection compared to 60" bulbs.

Of course, you can only compare T8 and T5 etc bulbs if you assume the same quality reflector.


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## 05dr (Nov 28, 2003)

> Of course, you can only compare T8 and T5 etc bulbs if you assume the same quality reflector.


unfortunetly, there isn't an equivalent t8 reflector as good as the sls individual reflector. the triton was good but is now almost impossible to find and very wide. i don't remember how wide but one could atleast fit 2 if not 3 indididually reflected t5's in the same amount of width. in the end, that is why t8's can't compare to t5's with regard to output 8). if only there were more bulbs to choose from . currently there aren't even many options with the 48" t5's, i have heard things might be improving soon though...


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## Rikko (Jan 24, 2004)

Some figures for interest's sake...
Our Envirolite rep came into the store last week and left me with a data sheet on their lights (fearlessgardener has a trimmed version of this).

Comparing between a few common Hagen and envirolite bulbs (since those are the only ones I have specs for):
[code:1:769c13c59f]
Bulb Length Wattage Lumens
T5 Envirolite 24" 14W 1300
Hagen Power-Glo 24" 20W 1100
T5 Envirolite 48" 28W 2750
Hagen Power-Glo 48" 40W 2200[/code:1:769c13c59f]
The envirolites are 6400K. "PURE SUNLIGHT - FULL SPECTRUM!" (My, how I love promotional materials)
Power-Glo is 18000K. The figures should be for the new(ish) T8 bulbs - last time I saw a T12 Power-Glo it has spiders living in the box.

All are 20,000 hour bulbs. Thus far I'm very taken with the Envirolites - I'm in the works of building a new lighting setup for my tanks and I'll see just how decent these are in the long run.

I'm just starting to dig through the Light Source article by Ivo Busko, so perhaps I haven't contributed anything of use.. For what it's worth, anyways.


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## 05dr (Nov 28, 2003)

Rikko: your chart is using NO t5's where as most for sale in aquarium retailor's are HO t5's. the HO bulbs have an established track record in europe of lasting 3-4 yrs so i can't imagine the NO bulbs lasting any less long. so far tests in the u.s. from ice-cap, industry, and a few private hobbyists are backing those figures up. even the way overdrived bulbs being driven on ice-caps are showing only a 10% drop in output at 2 yrs. the point is that you could use HO bulbs which will give you the same lifespan, have more bulb choices(although not many), put out twice the light, and probably don't cost much more. just something to think about...


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## amanda huggenkiss (Mar 3, 2004)

Hey guys

I'm a newbie to this board. I've been reading all the info I can find about T5s vs T8s and I feel like my head's going to spin off.

I've got a 29 gallon with an Eclipse 3, which limits me to two 20watt tubes (less than 1.5wpg). I've been looking at ways to increase my light without having to replace the entire canopy/filter. The retrofit kits available in the states are not available to us up here in Canada (not CSA approved). So one of the options I'm looking at is either adding one T5 to my setup or replacing the existing fluorescents with 3 or 4 T5s.

And here is where I'm really confused. Based on the chart posted above by Rikko, we can't just look at the wattage of the bulbs (can we?). If this information is correct, a 14watt Envirolite T5 is putting out a heck of a lot more light than a 20watt PowerGlo T8... Based on the lumens, the 14watt T5 is equivalent to a (hypothetical) 25watt T8. So when calculating watts per gallon, would we pretend the T5s are actually 25watts?

BUT, that light output is measured in lumens, which really doesn't mean anything as far as the plants are concerned.

So does anyone know how the 14watt Envirolite T5 compares to a 20watt PowerGlo in terms of useable light for plants?

Thanks!


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