# Anyone want some pea soup? 56k warning



## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Hopefully the diatom filter i have coming in tomorrow will resolve this....


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: 

The last time I saw that was when I tried my hand at a non planted 10 gallon in FLA when I was first starting out!......

What causes this and how do you fix it!!???!!!


Mike  

PS...is this what I have to look forward to???????


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Mike,

This was all caused by moving the tank... 

I went form a nice clean tank to a full uprooting... 

After setting the tank back up I ended up wiht Blue-Green Cyano Bacteria(A bacteria that photosynth's and fixes it's own nitrogen).

Got the BGA killed and 3 days later I had peasoup...

I tried starving the tank of nutrients... 
I tried over feeding the plants PMDD and 40ppm co2
I tried a 3 day blackout...
I tried 70% water changes for 4 days in a row.

Diatom filter comes tomorrow and I hope i can use it to get rid of it.

Scott


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

Scott,

GOOD luck with getting it gone...I could never get my 10 gallon right...that was 15 years or so ago and I didnt know crap about tanks!

Good Luck!

Mike


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Mike....

If the diatom doesnt work im going from Fresh To Marine


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

hehehe the reverse of what I did....I kept marine tanks for 15 years...thought Id try my hand at Fresh now!

Mike


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Heh.. That looks exactly like my 90 gallon did about 2 months into the dirt experiment. It took another 2 months to clear i tup but it looks great now.

Be patient


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

The diatom filter works wonders on pea soup. I bought the Vortex Freedom Filter and it was great. I find that the Vortex works much better on GW if you give it 1 1/2 cups of diatom powder instead of the minimum 1 cup.


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## 29gallonsteve (Oct 4, 2002)

Once GW has a hold, there is nothing but the blackout method and or time that will fully resolve the situation. Even if you use a diatom filter, you may have a reoccurence if the situation that caused the GW is still present.

I had a bloom EXACTLY like the one you have there...

It took this:

50% WC
23 day blackout
50% WC

...to clear the tank. Now, the one difference that could shorten this would be to not feed the fish as often as I did during the blackout.

Do a 50% wc, then the diatom, then another 50% WC. That should clear it up.

Thanks,
Steve


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

23 days of blackout ought to be enought to kill your plants though, right?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I am a firm believer that GW clears up itself if left alone. As Steve said, even though the diatom filter will clear it up, if the same conditions exist as before it shouldn't take long for the next bloom.
10 days without water change... no blackouts, no 50%WC, just business as usual. It is a monoculture that collapses as quickly as it has appeared once the nutrients that made it appear in the first place are used up.


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Ok... I just got the diatom hooked up and running...

46 gallon tank.. how long should it take to clear it up initally?


Thanks
Scott


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Heres a pic after 45mins.... Not much difference yet...


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## Slaigar (Jun 8, 2003)

!!!! That is the worst I have EVER seen! I could not stop laughing when I saw this! I had a green water problem before but my water just looked like tea and was nothing compared to this. Hopefully that diatom filter will help you. How are the fish dealing with it?


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

The fish are fine... the snails are fine... I havent seen my shrimp in weeks... but im sure thier in there somewhere too


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

How about a Daphnia culture in a fine mesh nursery net? Those guys love GW from what I've heard. And you can set them free in the tank afterward and let the fish love them :wink: 

James


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## 29gallonsteve (Oct 4, 2002)

I have seen individuals that say to stop doing anything and it will clear up...

To each his own, but considering you have dosed very heavily recently, I strongly recommend at least a water change coupled with your diatom filtering. 

My solution was an extensive one where I had no diatom filtering.

Here is your best situation:

1) 50% WC (thins the volume of algae and removes excessive ferts)
2) Diatom Filtering (thins further)
3) blackout 3-5 days (kills the algae)
4) 50% WC (Removes some more chemicals)
5) Diatom Filtering (Removes dead algae particles)

Whatever you decide to do...good luck!!!

I have always gotten rid of GW, it just takes patience and thought. The best thing I can say...get to the root of why you had the bloom. That is the key.

Thanks,
Steve


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

rossi: I'm sure you'll be running that filter for at least 24 hours. But I can see that after 45 minutes it was already improving.


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

All i can say is.... Recharge recharge recharge....

The GW is so bad that i let the diatom run overnight and it got no better... so... I backflushed it and recharged it... got a lot better in 30 mins then not much difference... backflushed again and recharged it... getting better everytime... 

nex time this happens i'll probably do a 80% waterchange and then let the diatom filter do it's job... they get clogged up pretty quick.

Scott


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Before and After:


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

You do realize that you probably don't need to charge the micron filter with diatomaceous earth, don't you? Chances are the algae itself will serve the same function--it just takes a little longer. You've certainly got enough in there!

Good luck and continued success...

2la


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

2la...

U know that is a good point... That would probably work... but theres only one problem... the vortex would be easier to clean if it was coated wiht the DE and the Algae collecting on it rather than pure GW algae on the filter bag. It would probably be harder to remove than the slime coat that gets caught on the bag from the fish.

just my added .02

Scott


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Sorry. I assumed you were using a H.O.T. Magnum--don't have any experience with the Vortex...


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

All done!!!


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

WHOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

How long did that take you to clear it up?


What type of filter were you using....how much did it cost? Any suggestions for clearing up the minute stuff in the water fast? Have some dust in there from planting.

Mike


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## SNPiccolo5 (Oct 6, 2002)

Your beginning picture looks like my tank right now... The only thing I can pin it down to is the lack of growing plant mass and/or PO4 overdose. I do water changes until it is cleared, then dose ferts to a 10-1-20 ratio, it does come back more slowly each time, hopefully it'll stop soon.

I might have gotten confused, but will a micron filter alone filter out green water? 

-Tim


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Tim,

THe micron filter will remove 100% of the green water.... 

BUT and a BIG BUT....

It did come back... well.. not all the way. I ran the diatom today because the tank started to cloud up a bit.. it removed some residual green water (the diatom ends up lookign green)but it's still cloudy. The GW probably wold have been starved sin my plants are pearling once again. I had done a 90% water change about 3 weeks ago so I am assuming that is am going through a NTS cycle. Amonia is a little high and Nitrite is readable and nitriet is unreadable so it seems that i am at the end of the cycle.

Scott


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## cich (Aug 5, 2003)

my mommy was complainting about her sister's tank and how the water was green... I showed her yours and she seems to be a lot more quiet :wink: 
I'll be keeping these pictures! hehe

--cich


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## SNPiccolo5 (Oct 6, 2002)

So, DE (diatom. earth) is not mandatory to filter out green water? If I put a micron filter into my Filstar XP3, would it filter out the green water? My filter should be here tomorrow, can't wait, first canister filter ever! 

Anyway, I have an interesting philosophy on "blackouts". When you have really thick green water, if it appears green to us, then all the plants are getting it mostly green light, right? And, that is there least useful form, so wouldn't the actual photsynthetic-useable light they be getting be a lot less? So if you did black out, then the plants wouldn't experience much of a change? Maybe I could be wrong, but just an idea...

Also, this thread was an excellent idea! You see lots of pictures of before and after with algae and everything, but it it useful to see that in days, the difference. This will be a good reference post for other members looking for help with green water! 

-Tim


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Tim, 

TO the best of my knowledge DE is the only way to "FILTER" GWA out of water. I have some superfine floss running in my XP2 and it didnt remove any of the GWA. 

DE Concept: Using a fine filter bag and sucking water from the outside in. You dump DE into the intake and the DE will start to stick to the outside of the filter bag.... your actually clogging the bag up with DE. the more DE you add the finer particle you can filter out of the water. but the more you add or more crap you filter out the faster the water flow slows down. My GW was so bad that i could clog the filter 90% in 15 minutes. I have the DE running in my 5.5 Gallon quarantine tank now and has been running nonstop for a few hours and still has 90% flow. BTW... the 5.5 is crystal clear.

Just from my first experience of using the DE filter in the aquarium it seems as if the actual algae attaches to the DE if i shake up the canister after filtering the DE falls off the bag when it finally settles the water is 90% clear but the DE is still green.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

SNPiccolo5 said:


> So, DE (diatom. earth) is not mandatory to filter out green water? If I put a micron filter into my Filstar XP3, would it filter out the green water?


No, a micron filter won't work in a Filstar because it requires essentially zero bypass, and the micron filters are specifically made for those filter units they're designed to work in. Also, a bare micron filter will do pretty much the same job as one charged with diatomaceous earth; but it will take longer (diatom filtration can produce visible improvement or even completion in as little as 15-20 minutes) and may be more difficult to clean and thus 'recharge' the micron filter.


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

UPDATE


I stopped adding EVERYTHING TO THE TANK. nothing but 1wpg and some O2 since the GW eats the O2 up and it would suffocate the fish. After 4 weeks of DOING NOTHING the tank is improving. It gets better and better by the day.

The Diatom only fixed the GW for a day or so and then i would come right back. Needed the take advantage of the GW to absorb the excess nutrients(Im missing about 12 substrate fert pellets) in the water.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Hey, good approach! Give it a few more days and you'll be surprised. How did the fertilizer pellets disappear in the first place? Digging fishies?


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

they were in a bag ontop of the tank.... their gone now... have not seen them for a month or so. Must have been what caused the GW 

:evil:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

:lol: OMG this is funny... another explaination for green water: Dropped a bag of fertilizer in the tank :lol: 
This reminds me of the person that had those skyhigh Ammonia values which wouldn't drop. Finally found out that at the LFS where the flourite was bought, it was used as a kitty toilet :hehe:


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Another update..... 

_GulfCoastAquarian: edited picture size - 09/10/03_

_Comment 9/10/03 Sorry about the pic size everyone... I am on a 21" monitor @ 2560x1024 so images dont seem so large to me._


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Scott, any chance of reducing that picture--it's HUGE (plus it's making all of the text scroll way, way over)!

Anyways, I'm looking at the situation and here's my perpsective on it. You can follow any of my advice or ignore it all, I won't be offended. After all, I'm writing only in the hopes of helping.

It is absolutely true that algae will prosper in whatever conditions favor it and will recur if those conditions are not changed in spite of any and all efforts to remove it, be it mechanical, chemical, or biological. However, I think this principle is overly and/or improperly used by many experienced aquarists who thumb their noses at 'stopgap' measures such as diatom filtration when advising others about fixing their algae problems. But when you think about it, mechanical removal of suspended algae really is no different than a temporary nutrient starvation or blackout. As soon as you turn the lights back on or return to your original fertilization scheme, the algae will come right back (this, of course, differs from a situation where one particular nutrient is too high, in which case temporary deprivation of that particular nutrient is obviously the way to go).

You've obviously gone the route of nutrient deprivation, and by now I think you've corrected or at least reset nutrient concentrations at levels that no longer favor the return of green algae. So why does your water remain cloudy? Two reasons: One, you've got a lot of dead _Euglena_ and other phytoplanktons suspended in the water. Two, "favoring" and "_allowing_" are not mutually exclusive. Just because conditions are no longer ripe for a green water bloom, it doesn't necessarily mean that conditions now _discourage_ it. Thus, the reason why green water tends to recur after a round of diatom filtration--much to the chagrin of the aquarist who can't understand how the water went from crystal clear back to pea soup--is that not all of the phytoplankton had been removed on the first pass.

Think about it: At what point do people stop the diatom filtration? Usually when the water flow slows to a trickle, right? Well, all that means is that the cartridge's filtration capacity has approached saturation; it doesn't mean that there's not still some filtration that needs to be done! In fact, as the flow slows, the thoroughness of the filtration decreases because less and less of the tank's full volume of water is being circulated through the filter. And that, of course, means that there's still plenty of green-water organisms left in the tank once the diatom filter's been removed, and these organisms can multiply back up to visible numbers, leaving one with the impression of a true 'recurrence' when, in fact, it more accurately represents incomplete removal the first time around.

So my point is this: Just as using diatom filtration _alone_ is not the best solution to getting rid of and preventing a green water outbreak, neither is a blackout or temporary nutrient restriction. The best approach, IME, is using a combination of diatom filtration with one of the other two modalities. The key, though, is NOT to stop at just one round of filtration. Do three or more rounds in succession (remember that flow through the filter remains closer to maximal longer with each successive round) to ensure that every last bit of phytoplankton gets trapped in the filter and removed.

If you think the excessive nutrients have now been corrected, I think now's as good a time as any to reincorporate the diatom filter into your plans. Again, this is only a suggestion. Whatever you decide, best of luck, and keep keeping us updated on how it's going! 

Cheers,

2la


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## slyargent (Sep 8, 2003)

2LA, great post! I agree with you that the combination of all those things will really help in eliminating GW. I think that using diatom filters alone only led us to think its a quick fix. Anyway, this isnt the case here since rossi did everything she can(blackouts, diatom filters, etc).

I had BGA, and GW a month ago,I dont know where the BGA came from, but I suspect its me overfeeding, and adding too much fertilizers, and new tank syndrome. Anyway, The BGA threatens to smother everything( but it didnt, ironically, my filters where the one smothered, and i thought thats the last place i'd find them since its rich in O2 in there). I was hesitant to use any chemicals to fix, as I was trying to make this tank, as low cost, and as low maintennace as possible. So, I read that plants can outcompete them. I nly had a couple of plants here and there, and ina dequate lgithing then. So I had this idea, to make use my plants a s a weapon, and change my lighting(I didnt knew any better before this and I was wondering why my plants aren't growing...). I did the biggest mistake but I dont know wether to be thankful with this or not. I read that plants love ammonia, so I got this bright plan of putting in two tablespoon(yes, 2 tbsp) of houseplant fertilizer). Hmmm....in no time, my ammonia was thru the roof, and had green water the next day...more than I bargained for. I was afraid to lose a fish, so I did immediate actions, adding dechloraminators(I read this will bind the ammonia) and did massive water changes. Hmm...to my surprise, the ammonia is still thru the roof, and I still have GW. 

I weighed down my options: Is it better to let the ammonia level stay that high(I added ammonia binders anyway) or let the GW stay and risk the fish because of [email protected] deprivation at nights. My GW was twice as thick as ronni's. So I decided to get take the GW out, and did the black out. After 4 days, all is clear.No high tech stuff. Just plain old deprivation(light/nutrients) Even the BGA is gone(to my surprise). The ammonia levels dropped. And all lived happily ever after, and yes, I didnt lose a single fish. The plants were already weak anyway, but to this day, recovering. I just bought more plants the last tow weeks and they are growing extremely well considering the fact I have a low tech tank.

Sorry for the long post and i thought I'd share my GW experience.


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

2LA,

Excellent post!!....

Just another thing I forgot to mention....

For a 1 week period i left the tank on a 24/7 Photo Period and after 3 days it started to slowly clear up. I am now back on a 11 hour PP. The way i figured it was:

I have som much GW and excess nutrients that I will use it to my advantage. Leaving the lights on 24/7 forced the GW to rapidly mutiply and Absorb the Excess nutrients. The GW absorbs the nutrients in the tank and if the GW dies the nutrients enter the water once again since most of the nutrients are stored nutrients in GW. I will be running the Diatom again tonight and see what happens over the next 2 days. I have started with my normal fert routine but at 1/2 the dose. I will slowly ramp it back up. Lastnight I trimmed the tank and got rid of 50% of my plants.(1+ months of treating the GW and the plants have grown out fo control).

Another PIC soon....

Scott


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

2la,

Great post....I agree with everything you said! I too was battling a "hazy water"....I think that is the stage prior to full blown GW. Anyhow was monitoring my ferts and using the DE filtration via a HOT MAGNUM 250.

This was not working well for me....I took a suggestion and tried the "ACCUCLEAR" method....this substance is a coaggulant that binds the small particles together.....WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Cleared right up...had to recharge filter twice for two days....now tank is looking SPECTACULAR!

Bottom line is you have to remove the CAUSE and ensure that if you do have some GW left in the tank...get it out. Patience is the key.

I will recharge the beast tonight and continue to let it run for a couple more days to be sure....will keep you all posted on how that works.

Mike


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Another few days later and a haircut:


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## cvarcher (Nov 19, 2002)

still alive---he h e. Forget the Diatom crap.Start taking out all the plants and fish in another bucket .Then rewash all your gravel with running tap water.clean the power filter.restart the tank and replant and decorate.Im sure everything will get by doing this.Now why it all happened I dont know but....Why dont you copy what I have since my tank is crystal clear and I have never ever --EVER even cleaned the front glass!!! I use a Custom Sealife 6500K PC lighting.at 3 2/3 watt per gallon.I use a CO2 bottled gas bubbling at 50 bubbles per minute in the counter to yield about 18 ppm of CO2 by the chart.My hardness is always a steady 3 degrees.and PH is constant at 6.8 OH yeah and for all listening hear--I leave the CO2 gas on day and nite..For gravel you should be using what I use---which is Flourite and I also mixed volcanite to a depth of 3-4 inches.Of course have some snail in there as well as OTOs and even AMNO shrimp.If you follow this you will have success and stay succesfull.ps- I just threw out a sh...t load of more plants!!! Every month I have to do this!!


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

:roll:


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Corrado....

Must be that NY water :shock:


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Well... guess what....

IT"S BACK....

I did a 50% water change and it came back...

Well... i think i have actually nailed the problem. My tap water phosphate levels are @ 1ppm.

Looks like i need to go RO?

Scott


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

I don't know that 1ppm is enough to do it, Scott. I regularly dose my tank _to_ 1 to 1.5ppm. Maybe you can try a trial of PhosZorb or similar product before investing in an R/O unit?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

My phosphates come outta the tap at 1-2 ppm and I never get GW. What are your nitrate and CO2 levels? Somethings outta wack. I agree with 2la, 1ppm is not terrible. Try to keep your nitrates at about 10ppm, CO2 20-25ppm and try stepping up the micros.

Marcel


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

Marcel,

Do you find that 10 ppm on your nitrates is better for your plants?

Mike


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## rossi32s (Feb 20, 2003)

Marcel,

My co2 is at 18-20ppm running on a SMS PH controller so that constantly stays the same.

My Nitrates are less than 5ppm.
I have a 46 gallon heavilly planted tank. How much micros should i be adding? I am using Miller Trace Mix.

TIA
Scott


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Guttboy said:


> Marcel,
> 
> Do you find that 10 ppm on your nitrates is better for your plants?
> 
> Mike


Absolutely, 20 ppm is even better, but then the problem becomes algae control and plant growth control.

Scott: try to keep your nitrates at a 10-1 ratio with phosphates. Your plants can't use the phosphates optimally because the nitrates are limiting there growth rate. 
Here's what I would do if I were you: Run the Diatom to clean out the algae raise nitrates to a 10-1 ratio to phosphate, whatever that might be. Keep your lights on no longer than 11 hrs. In addition you could also increase the co2 to 25 ppm temporarily to give those plants a growth spurt.

The micro question is a little less cut and dry. I'm not familiar with Millers, but with the plant load you have you could experiment a little. What form of iron does it contain? I use my iron levels as a guide to my micros. This too is a little fuzzy, but I try to keep the Fe at 0.1-0.2 ppm as a general guide to help me regulate micros in general.


Marcel


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