# Pothos stealing nutrients?



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi aquaBender,

Short answer....yes unless there is sufficient of all the various nutrients in the tank to support both the submerged and emersed growing plants.


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

After 2 years the soil is probably lost its nutrients. I'd suggest root tabs and some sort of fertilizer like Thrive.

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## jennesque (May 10, 2012)

Yes, it can and will steal some of the nutrients, but removing it would only be a short term band aid, if even that... As it's been mentioned, you need to start using fertilizer. If you like the pothos, leave it be.  It'll help remove anything that may be in excess.


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## aquaBender (Aug 18, 2016)

Thanks for the replies, I was hoping I wouldn't need to use any fertilizer on this tank and that mulm buildup would keep it going. I'll probably remove the pothos and see how things go. I've noticed my jungle vals seem to be thriving as everything else diminishes, so maybe it will just become a val tank.


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

At some point(which you may have already reached), because you're dealing with a closed system, you will have to dose fertilizers or things will die. No getting around that. Soil only has a finite amount of nutrients to give.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> I've noticed my jungle vals seem to be thriving as everything else diminishes, so maybe it will just become a val tank.


You gals can probably tolerate the lower nutrient values of your aquarium better than the other plants. However eventually it two will stop growing. Even the pathos would stop growing due the loss of nutrients in the tank.

You basically have two options replace the substrate or to start using fertilizers. All plants need the same elements to grow.

Bump:


> I've noticed my jungle vals seem to be thriving as everything else diminishes, so maybe it will just become a val tank.


You gals can probably tolerate the lower nutrient values of your aquarium better than the other plants. However eventually it two will stop growing. Even the pathos would stop growing due the loss of nutrients in the tank.

You basically have two options replace the substrate or to start using fertilizers. All plants need the same elements to grow.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

In addition to the likelihood that the soil has become rather depleted, it looks to me that your jungle val has grown so well it is toppled over at the surface and is badly shading all of the other plants. I used to cut Jungle val on an angle at the surface to prevent this.
A Walstad or even Walstad inspired tank requires a very unique balance. You have a heavy plant load and perhaps not enough bio-load to support it. In theory, The Walstad method organically feeds the plants (fish food/fish waste) while the plants purify the water. In your case, it seems the plants no longer receive enough nutrients. So...you either need to reduce the plant mass, fertilize, or increase the bio-load some.


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## aquaBender (Aug 18, 2016)

AbbeysDad said:


> In addition to the likelihood that the soil has become rather depleted, it looks to me that your jungle val has grown so well it is toppled over at the surface and is badly shading all of the other plants. I used to cut Jungle val on an angle at the surface to prevent this.
> A Walstad or even Walstad inspired tank requires a very unique balance. You have a heavy plant load and perhaps not enough bio-load to support it. In theory, The Walstad method organically feeds the plants (fish food/fish waste) while the plants purify the water. In your case, it seems the plants no longer receive enough nutrients. So...you either need to reduce the plant mass, fertilize, or increase the bio-load some.



Yeah, the vals are pretty overgrown, I'm going to give them a big trim and see if it helps the other plants. I took the pothos out too, and I'm hoping everything will green up a bit without the need for ferts. The tank has 5 male endlers in it but I could put a couple more in from another tank, I don't like to overcrowd though since its only 10 gallons.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

aquaBender said:


> The tank has 5 male endlers in it but I could put a couple more in from another tank, I don't like to overcrowd though since its only 10 gallons.


Again, especially without ferts, there needs to be a balance between the bio-load and the plant mass. I'm just not sure that fish food/fish waste from the 5 small fish can support the plant mass you have. What harm do you see in modest fertilization?


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## MultiTankGuy (Jan 8, 2018)

aqua...

A Pothos plant the size you have will make no difference in the nutrient level of your tank. This plant is simply too small. The two year old soil in your tank has lost the nutrient value long ago. The plant is simply surviving on the nutrients from dissolving plant material and any nutrients from dead bacteria. This is a major problem with the Walstad method. It doesn't work long term. There are some issues with water chemistry caused by oxidation. But, this is a chemistry lesson for another time. If you really want to get a tank going long term, then research the "Terraphyte" tank.

M


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## aquaBender (Aug 18, 2016)

AbbeysDad said:


> Again, especially without ferts, there needs to be a balance between the bio-load and the plant mass. I'm just not sure that fish food/fish waste from the 5 small fish can support the plant mass you have. What harm do you see in modest fertilization?


I don't see any harm in it, I was just hoping that fishfood nutrient buildup/ fish mulm would keep the tank going, as Diana Walstad suggests in her book. The tank has a ton of snails and some shrimp in it so I tend to overfeed. If growth continues to slow I'll start adding ferts, but I do want to see what happens after my heavy val trim and the removal of the pothos.

Bump:


MultiTankGuy said:


> aqua...
> 
> A Pothos plant the size you have will make no difference in the nutrient level of your tank. This plant is simply too small. The two year old soil in your tank has lost the nutrient value long ago. The plant is simply surviving on the nutrients from dissolving plant material and any nutrients from dead bacteria. This is a major problem with the Walstad method. It doesn't work long term. There are some issues with water chemistry caused by oxidation. But, this is a chemistry lesson for another time. If you really want to get a tank going long term, then research the "Terraphyte" tank.
> 
> M


I'm no expert, but Diana Walstad writes that mulm accumulation will replenish the nutrients that plants have removed from the soil. Do you (or anyone else) have personal experience with this? Seems like people think it won't suffice for the plants. Also I'm curious about this oxidation, care to elaborate? I'm always down for a chem lesson


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I don't have any chemistry answers, but here's my ongoing experiment- I have one tank I run without light, heat, or ferts. I didn't intend to make it a walstad tank so it doesn't have dirt or nutrient rich substrate, it was really meant to be a temporary setup for some adopted fish that I ended up keeping... It has a substrate of safe-t-sorb which I never vacuum. It has small internal filter run on airline for circulation, the current is mild. Gets diffused window light thru a curtain. I have one fish in there- a year-old paradise fish who gets fed well, at least twice a day. And trumpet snails. That's it. 

In this tank I've been able to grow vallisneria, subwassertang, hornwort and windelov fern. I've tried other kinds of java fern which died. Don't know why the windelov does ok! I also have a few crypt retrospiralis, crypt willisii, small creeping buces and bolbitis fern. They grow very slowly, if at all, but haven't died yet. In the top I have cuttings of pothos vine and coleus plant, with only roots in the water. A few weeks ago I took out the old pothos stems -they were rotting- and put in new cuttings. I noticed as soon as the new cuttings sprouted roots, the nitrates dropped dramatically that week. It used to have about 20 or 30ppm nitrates, but the week the pothos took off, nitrates were below five. So they definitely suck up nutrient if healthy. My other plants don't seem to be suffering yet. 

I admit I do add a tiny bit of ferts, when I'm done dosing liquid seachem comprehensive in my other tanks, I rinse the cap In this one. It is a minisculue amount and I thought it wouldn't make any difference, but my windelov ferns have looked greener since I started doing that. Could also be because daylight hours are getting longer, though. 

I used to do weekly twenty percent water changes on this tank, but last week with the lower nitrates I only did ten percent and if it gets even leaner I might start doing water changes only once every other week or so... I've tried other plants in here but not surprisingly, most of them die, even anacharis. I'm not sure if the other plants don't make it because the tank is so low on nutrients or because it gets cold, down to sixtytwo degrees at night. So far I'm just having fun seeing what lives in there.

Sorry if that was a long answer and I don't know if I helped with any of your questions, lol.


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