# plants dying/ brown lumps on leaves



## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Well im about ready to throw in the towel. Ive had sooo many problems with this tank its rediculous. Ive posted many times before in short ivr had a variety of plants die and ive tried many things. Well ive started dosing with the EI method. This is a low tech 55 gal tank with a finnex planted + light. Currently my amazon swords are dying and i have brown specs on the plants. I figure its algae but ive never seen it look like this before. Currently my light is on for 7.5 hours. Ive turned the ligjt to 6 and plants die, i turn it up and i get algae. I camt seem to win. Ive been up and down with this tank for the better part of a year now. So amy help would be appreciated as itll soon be shut down if i can get it workes out.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

One foot can not stand on two boats. Make a commitment to one method or another. If you want low tech, you need to light the tank appropriately. Shortening the duration of light isn't the answer. Raising the light higher above the tank to provide less PAR and provide less direct light is. Or, you need to look for a light that isn't as bright. Otherwise your low tech isn't going to work.

Start with reading, "Lighting an Aquarium with PAR instead of Watts" and you tell me what you think the problem is and which boat you want to ride with. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184368&page=24


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

I have read about par ratings. And many people on this forum recommended this light to me for use in my low tech tank. Also i decreased my light exposure due to the recommendation of people on this forum.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Hmmm, alright then.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

The white growth on the swords suggests you need co2. You could always put window screen under the light to reduce what gets to the tank.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Well im trying to keep this low tech. No co2. So i have no idea where my problem lies


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Too much light driving the plants to need more nutrients and co2.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Hi there,

I have a 75 low tech with a finnex planted plus, I think I can offer some help. Here is my tank as a reference.





here is my tank info so you can compare as needed.
TANK START DATE:

-	03-22-2014

THE HARDWARE

-	Eheim Pro 3 2075 filter
-	Hydor Inline heater 300W @ 82
-	Finnex Planted + LED fixture, set 22.5” above the substrate running 10 hours a day
-	Safe-T-Sorb Substrate


THE FISH
-	24 Cardinal Tetras
-	7 Yoyo Loaches (added on 01/09/15)
-	7 Kuhli Loaches
-	7 Peppered Corydoras
-	5 Siamese Algae Eaters
-	4 Pearl Gouramis
-	1 Blue Gourami aka 3 Spot Gourami
-	1 Golden Ram
-	1 Bristle Nose Pleco

THE INVERTEBRATES
-	Ramshorn Snails
-	Malaysian Trumpet Snails
-	Pond Snails

THE PLANTS

-	Amazon Sword
-	Anubius Barteri
-	Anubias Nana
-	Anubius Petite
-	Anubias Unknown
-	Aponogeton Crispus
-	Aponogeton Undulatus
-	Aponogeton Ulvaceus
-	Bolbitis Heudelotii
-	Crinum Natans
-	Cryptocoryne Crispatula Balansae
-	Cryptocoryne Green Gecko
-	Cryptocoryne Nurii
-	Cryptocoryne Parva
-	Cryptocoryne Pontederiifolia
-	Cryptocoryne Spiralis
-	Cryptocoryne Wendtti (Red, Green, Brown)
-	Cryptocoryne X Willisi
-	Hygrophila Corymbosa Compacta
-	Hygrophila Angustifolia
-	Hygrophila Pinnatifida
-	Java Fern
-	Lace Fern
-	Oriental Sword
-	Red Melon Sword
-	Red Tiger Lotus
-	Vallisneria Natans Tiger



THE FERTILIZER
-	K2SO4
-	Micronutrients 

NOTES

*Dosing 2x a week of each started 07/19/14
*Added diy root tabs on 07/25/14, used 
*Added a 250ml Bag of Purigen on 07/24/14
*Cleaned Filter Full on 07/24/14
*Photoperiod bumped to 9 hours/day starting on 07/19/14
*Dropped temp to 78-79 08/02/14
*Increase Plantex CSM+B dose to ¼ tsp 08/02/14 
*Stopped dosing kno3, started dosing k2so4 @ ¼ tsp 08/02/14
*PWC Saturday and dosed macro, dosed micro on Sunday 08/02/14
*Photoperiod bumped to 9 hours/day starting on 08/10/14
*Increase k2so4 to ½ tsp 08/10/14

*Full filter cleaning 03/10/14
*6tsp of k2so4 weekly
*1.5tsp of kh2po4 weekly
*.75tsp of csm+b weekly
*cyanobacteria appear in the tank. First week of October, due to what I think is high organics (over feeding/dirty filter).
*lighting is still 8 hours a day

-	Full filter cleaning 11/15/14
-	Filter Cleaned on 12/30/14 (no hoses)
-	Lighting is set to 10 hours a day @ 22.5” above the substrate 01/13/15
-	Nitrates are reading 0-1ppm as of 01/13/15 (testing regularly)
-	Added 9 root tabs on 01/17/15 (front and with crinum, oriental sword & gecko crypt)
-	Nitrates at 4-5ppm morning of 01/17/15
-	Full filter clean 02/01/15
-	

Weekly Dosing:
K2SO4 ½ tsp weekly
CSM+B ¼ tsp weekly


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Here is where we start:

1. Raise up your fixture so that its 24-25" above the substrate.
2. Insert root tabs every 5x5" square, as deep as possible. This can be DIY root tabs using osmocote plus or store bought.
3. Start ensuring 50% weekly water changes are done
4. keep your photoperiod the same for now (7.5 hours ish)
5. track nitrates weekly to see where you are at, we need to know how much nitrates you generate each week to have a good idea of what ferts to dose.
6. REMOVE ALL DEAD LEAVES & LEAVES WITH ALGAE 
7. ensure you are not overfeeding, 2 small feedings a day is what I do and it works well.
8. keep tank glass clean, weekly or biweekly is idea. right before your waterchange is good practice.
9. its important to put your most light demanding plants in the centre where it gets the light it needs. basically, try to plant based on the plant needs for right now. With that said I would try and avoid moving plants right now, each time we move them the plants have to re-establish which takes time and algae will keep thriving.
10. if you have phosphate test I would like to know where your at.
11. if your dosing potassium through k2so4, aim for an amount that reaches a target of 5-10ppm. for my tank i dose 1/2 tsp which seems to be enough.
12. don't use chemicals, i personally don't like anything that removes stuff from the tank. water changes and plants should be all you need. no purigen. I found my tank is much better when I removed purigen.


Stop dosing kno3 and kh2po4 for now. If you have iron I would dose about .5ppm per week. 

I will add more as you give feedback. Also can you provide a list of your plants and fish in your tank?

* IMPORTANT * if you take my advise and make these changes you need to give you tank a month or so just to adjust. Give plants time to adjust.
Keep a log of what changes you have made and what the changes were. ensure you can track progress, take photos of plants and such.

The notes I have there are not all of them but just what I have on my computer. I been using my cellphone to notes changes for a while not and I have logged everything. But i wanted to give you some idea of how I approach my tank. Most importantly is to watch your plants, they can tell you a lot of what's going on.

take at look at this plant deficiency diagram. can be helpful. Important to note that symptoms can sometimes be misleading, co2 deficiencies can look like many others. but with raising your fixture, you will essentially slow down plant growth. This might sound bad BUT by doing this we will reduce the plants required co2 and nutrient levels. since we don't add co2 we need to ensure we are not driving the plants to want more co2 than we can provide.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

in the first pic the algae in question is BBA (black beard algae).

I would also suggest buying a small spray bottle and a bottle of hydrogen peroxide. Until we work to getting your tank balanced and in tip top shape peroxide can be used to help control algae. Turn off filter and spray directly on the algae covered leaves. NOTE: some plants with delicate leaves like hygrophila willow will melt completely if sprayed. so its best to simply remove the leaves.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Philip, I hope I'm not highjacking this thread but I am impressed with, among other things, the way you suspended your light. Can you explain how you managed to make it look as if it's floating in air? What did you use to suspend it? Alex is off starting another thread on the same question about their tank but I'm interested? :icon_smil


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Its actually very simple idea.

Since the finnex is such a lightweight unit I was able to combine some simple hooks and fishing line (30lbs test monofilament, could probably use thinner line but its what I had around the house).

The hooks I used are like these. http://www.lowes.ca/wall-hooks/the-...te-vinyl-cup-hook_g1432014.html?ProductSlot=2

But mine were a bit fancier. I predrilled a hole and put a plug in, then screwed in the hook.

Tied up the desired length loops of fishing line and done 

Just make sure you measure the placement of the hooks correctly.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

I thought it was something as simple as that and it looks great. I hope Alex will give it a go. It's not that hard to do and there is a lot to be gained from trying the light suspended a little higher from the tank. I'm not sure what could be the hold up?


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

The importance of reading correctly. I saw 24" and i thought you meant above the tank sooo i jumped too it.



Reread and readjusted. It almost exactly 24" above the substrate


Bump:


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

I just did a 30% water changed and cleaned off the glass and removed the dead stuff about a hour ago. With that said. My phosphate is about 4ppm and my nitrate is 0ppm both using api tests


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

your phosphate levels are fine imo. I would like to see your nitrates at minimum 5-10ppm and a max of 20-30ppm. By doing 50% WC when nitrates reach around 20ppm you can obtains those values.

Keep in mind your tank isn't really heavily planted, more plant mass will help your cause.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Agreed but frequent weekly water changes can bounce the CO2/nutrients around in some cases.
Plants can sometimes have a problem with this were as algae does not.
Welcome back Alex.


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## kabendixen (Jan 27, 2015)

*dying plants*

---


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

I actually think alex's tank will do very well w/out the CO2 and as the OP stated that is their preference but there you go. Free advice off the internet. Every tank is different and what works in one does not always work for everyone. 

A soil's nutrients will be depleted in about 6-8 months.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> your phosphate levels are fine imo. I would like to see your nitrates at minimum 5-10ppm and a max of 20-30ppm. By doing 50% WC when nitrates reach around 20ppm you can obtains those values.
> 
> Keep in mind your tank isn't really heavily planted, more plant mass will help your cause.


Okay so to answer some questions you asked. 
The stocking is
4 cardinal tetras
10 rummy nose tetras
7 black neon tetras
4 corys
2 snails
and temporarily 2 bolivian rams

Plants
water wisteria
amazon swords
dwarf sag 
java fern
anubias
Corkscrew val plant
Crypt wendtii 
and one other that i cant think of the name.

As far as plants that have died. Thats a long list. 
Im at work so i will get it to you a little later.

Ive tried to add plant mass but it all dies off. So once i can get some life i will deff add alot more!


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## kabendixen (Jan 27, 2015)

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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

What kind of root tabs do you recommend? I heard you say something about a DIY? Ive never heard of that before, i was just going to buy seachems but if there is a cheaper alternative im open to it


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I use clear gel capsules that I fill with osmocote plus. They work great and are pennies in comparison.

Bump: Your fish load seems fine. So what plants are currently in there? Possible to get some full tank shots?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

philipraposo1982 said:


> I use clear gel capsules that I fill with osmocote plus. They work great and are pennies in comparison.


I have not tried Jobe's fertilizer spikes but I know people that break them into quarter portions to place around there crypts.


kabendixen said:


> I'm sure this site would be much better off with just your advice. As far as I can tell all substrates wear out eventually


Didn't mean to get snarky. Yes there is something to be learned from both methods.

To keep the light at the same hight as it was when nearer the tank, higher levels of CO2 has a lot going for it and a wider range of landscape choices - though I prefer med-levels of light, adding CO2 and growing less demanding plants. The OP want's to try using less PAR and better plant choices - slow tech.

No one needs to follow any advise you or I have offered to this point. I try to stay on topic and learn a thing or two. 

I might say something like this, I like the light placement. Moved from 24" above the top of the tank to 24" above the substrate - you can see more of the poster behind it. Do you think anyone's going to listen to that? :hihi:


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Plants ive had that have all died.

Ludwigia repens 
Alternanthera reineckii 
Hygrophia salicifolia 
Cabomba aquatica
Wisteria
Red Stemmed Parrot Myriophyllum brasillensis
Cabomba aquatica
Bacopa monnieri
Ammania gracilis
Alternanthera reineckii

Plants that are currently "alive" in the tank
water wisteria
amazon swords
dwarf sag 
java fern
anubias
Corkscrew val plant
Crypt wendtii

Full picture


Left side (looking at tank)


right side (looking at tank)



Lol and yes the posters i have behind the tank are awesome. They are models for various cigar companies.

Oh by the way. I am using Seachem Flourite for my substrate.

Bump: Oh and what size gelatin capsules do you use?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Alexp08 said:


> Plants ive had that have all died.
> 
> Ludwigia repens
> Alternanthera reineckii
> ...


Looking at that plant list.. Did they mostly come from one seller on the Bay? 
I've only seen one guy that sells red stemmed parrots feather (which isn't full aquatic btw). I ordered quite a bit of plants from this seller and what showed up was horrid. All of their plants are grown emersed. Are you sure these plants are dying and not just melting?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Dead2fall said:


> Are you sure these plants are dying and not just melting?


 Stop drinking your diy reacted waste. LOL

Ludwigia repens- won't be as red but will grow at 35mmol PAR w/out CO2.
Some of the others love, love, loved nutrients from the water column.
I want to try the Alternanthera reineckii

NPK, whatever the method will help with plant growth. You would need to overdose PPS-Pro by a lot to have any ill effect - 2-3x EI even. Algae is generally only an issue at or above 35, certainly after 60, PAR. If we match in nutrients what the plants can adapt to, they do - provided there are enough.

Soils starting out provide nutrients, Job's stick's? Well maybe not.

What? Filling little caps full of fertilizer? How long before that gets old?


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

00 gelatin capsules is what you want.

A lot of the plants that didn't make it doesn't come as a surprise at all. So don't get to hung up on that. The plants you do have should be easily grown in your tank. Although, I find corkscrew val can be tricky.

From the pics things don't look to bad. Your substrate should be good too. I do notice some anubias leaves and some java fern that look terrible. These need to be removed, they are not helping in any way.

Also notice the wisteria has some.emersed leaves still on it. So its still in transition. I would remove those leaves as well. 

Dwarf sag is near bulletproof, you can cut all leaves and it will toss up new ones almost right away. With that said I would remove any leaves that have algae on them from the sag.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Hahaha yes, most of them did come from the Bay. But i bought them from different sellers. The wisteria came from live aquaria and the swords came from a LFS. 

Now funny thing about the wisteria was i ordered submerged, they accidentally set me emerged. So they reset the submerged at no extra cost. all the submerged died off. What is in my take is whats left from the emerged. and those leave have been around for about 2 months now.

Yes im sure they are dying and not just melting. 

The java ferns do look like crap. however i have new coming in the mail in about 2 days. i left them there for place holders so i know where to put the new ones. 

as far as the dwarf sag, they have not grow at all. maybe a tad but they are about the same size that they came about 3-4 months ago.

and tug has a great point lol im willing to spend a little extra so i dont have to be filling caps all the time.

So with dosing the PPS-PRO, alot of people say that i should do 1/3 of the EI since im low tech. Are you saying i should start doing the full does?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Just a guess but the emerged grown plants must store more energy and can adapt to the new environment in your tank more directly.

PPS_Pro is a regular, scheduled water column dosing of fertilizer. Generaly it is dosed to provide a little less then EI doses and spread out into daily doses.

I've been hard on any carpet plants I've tried - I'm not gone a lie. Not fussing and keeping species that can play in the same sand box together is important, but dwarf sag. doing poorly? I don't know. Keep it as an indicator plant till you get better growth.

Bump:


Alexp08 said:


> So with dosing the PPS-PRO, alot of people say that i should do 1/3 of the EI since im low tech. Are you saying i should start doing the full does?


 No. Growth rates will be 3-4 times slower, so adjust to your number of plants and dose the EI dose, only once a week or two.
Look for greener growth, maybe add some more wisteria or try Ludwigia again.
The Ludwigia would be a good indicator plant as well but they do better w/CO2.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Like I said, in my 75 with all my plant mass I only dose once a week. 1/2 tsp of potassium and 1/4 tsp micros. Micros should be dosed on separate days from.macros.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

tug said:


> Stop drinking your diy reacted waste. LOL


Excuse me tug, but I do not waste alcohol  haha! 




Alexp08 said:


> tug has a great point lol im willing to spend a little extra so i dont have to be filling caps all the time.


You just pour a pile of osmocote on a plate, and scoop with both sides of the gel cap pushing them together. Picture two cars coming at each other in a head on collision. It's quick and easy. The amount you could produce in ten minutes should last you a year or more.


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

i just scoop it out pf the container


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

philipraposo1982 said:


> ...Micros should be dosed on separate days from.macros.


Adding potassium (K+) and trace containing iron will not form a precipitate and can be dosed on the same day. Iron and phosphate can and sometimes do but there are brand name fertilizers for planted tanks that have them all mixed into one solution. When we add them both to a planted tank the concentrations are generally low enough that it doesn't mater if you dose them on the same day or not. The tank water's KH and the ligand bonded to a central metal atom (Fe) is worth more consideration.

There are a number of ways to add nutrients to a tank. They are all doing what? Adding specific nutrients. Enriched soils and water column dosing are often used in tandem. You can checkout most of the ones used to dose the water column and the various dosing methods on wets' calculator, http://rota.la

The "I am calculating for" drop down menu will calculate for EI, EI low light/weekly, PPS-Pro, PMDD, etc., and also provides an option to model the long term concentrations of stuff. You have to calculate for each nutrient separately so it's good to know what nutrient you want to add and why. You may find fish waste is all you need if you also add root tabs like Jobe's fertilizer spikes and a little K+. Maybe a GH booster once a week for additional K+ and a little CA and Mg. Some GH booster's also contain a small amount of iron. Adding something like EI once a week will only benefit your plants, in particular some of the nutrient hogs listed under "didn't make it" list.



> … two cars coming at each other in a head on collision


Sounds like a bad dream I had after drinking to much alcohol but piling osmocote on a plate is brilliant.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Well i just went ahead and bought seachem root tabs. And i dont eant to add anymore plants atm till i stop the dying. But i haven't dosed this week as philip said he wanted to see what my nitrates were after a week


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

That's good that you got some root tabs, just ensure you spread them out correctly. Also make sure you get them as deep as possible. 

You don't need to add more plants for now so don't worry. Its just more plant mass generally helps combat algae problems. This is only true if you can grow plants..

Also, try and use root tabs closest to those plants who need them most (if you don't have enough to do the whole tank). Rosette type plants (non stem plants) tend to feed heavily from roots. Swords crypts vals dwarf sag etc...


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Well i ordered 40 and i think you said to do 5x5 inch so im hoping i have enough


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I would do 2 rows of 9 or 10. And maybe a few randoms to fill some bigger gaps. But yeah you have enough for sure.

Bump: If you are maintaining a healthy amount of nitrates then you will more than likely not need to dose the water column for now until you get more plants and such. Maybe a little potassium here and there or some iron would be good.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

What are you adding when you add EI? How many grams/teaspoons and how often? Is your dosing regimen regular or do you add fertilizers sporadically?



Dead2fall said:


> The white growth on the swords suggests you need co2. You could always put window screen under the light to reduce what gets to the tank.


New white leaves are almost always a sign of an iron issue not a CO2 issue. CO2 deficiencies show virtually no symptoms. The plants just stop growing and since CO2 is not mobile within plants it is not removed from old leaves. This means that old leaves do not deteriorate and no new leaves are formed, resulting in no visible symptoms.

*From*:http://deficiencyfinder.com/?page_id=73
Iron deficiency in a chain sword plant & recovery after iron was added.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I agree with the above 100%. 

I believe the op doesn't really have much dosing going on which is why I am trying to help with getting it on track.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

I have been dosing 
1/2 tsp KNO3
1/8 tsp KH2PO4
1/8 tsp K2SO4
1/8 tsp PLANTEX

Bump: I have been dosing for about a month and a half now. It has slowed down the death but hasn't stopped it altogether


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

What has your water change schedule been like?


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Its always been 30% everyweek. And every month i clean out the filter and swap carbon


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

You should consider jumping up to 50% since you have been dosing an awful lot for a low tech tank IMO.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Alexp08 said:


> I have been dosing
> 1/2 tsp KNO3
> 1/8 tsp KH2PO4
> 1/8 tsp K2SO4
> ...


How often are you adding these amounts?


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Will do. I'm new to dosing EI and that is what the package recommends. 

And I'm dosing that once a week


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't remember anyone saying anything was CO2 deficient - 3 to 7ppm, CO2 deficient?
It supports a range of plants, including some ground covers at those levels - at less then 35mmol PAR.

To maintain it's existence a plant needs enzymes present and accounted for. Enzymes are built ruffly speaking, from N.

Lets not change the game plan, too soon.
As stated, the phosphate level is not alarming, neither are the levels for nitrate.
And, thanks to Philip the light is closer to 35mmol PAR, check one for philip.
Mostly the nutrient levels will sort themselves out when the plants have time to adapt.

There is no reason to change from the op's dosing routine for a few weeks. See what changing the light does.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Zapins said:


> *From*:http://deficiencyfinder.com/?page_id=73
> Iron deficiency in a chain sword plant & recovery after iron was added.


Are there reliable records of the tanks water condition to go with the pictures. I would suggest that w/out them the information provided may or may not apply. I'm not sure how iron ( a non-mobile) nutrient would cause "capable of re-greening" where as nitrate is very mobile and will cause the same thing to happen, IME. Looking at the water condition, if provided, should answer that.

Some day there will be something definitive to explain the "CO2 deficiencies show virtually no symptoms" theory.
For now, there are two camps on that issue.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Alexp08 said:


> Well im about ready to throw in the towel. Ive had sooo many problems with this tank its rediculous. Ive posted many times before in short ivr had a variety of plants die and ive tried many things. Well ive started dosing with the EI method. This is a low tech 55 gal tank with a finnex planted + light. Currently my amazon swords are dying and i have brown specs on the plants. I figure its algae but ive never seen it look like this before. Currently my light is on for 7.5 hours. Ive turned the ligjt to 6 and plants die, i turn it up and i get algae. I camt seem to win. Ive been up and down with this tank for the better part of a year now. So amy help would be appreciated as itll soon be shut down if i can get it workes out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the picture in the OP, there are clear signs to me, the plants are N deprived and have been for some time.
Adjusting the light, lowered demand some and the plant should adapt. A few weeks will tell.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

*Alexp08 *- you are currently adding 1/8th of a tsp of CSM+B to your 55g tank once a week. This is on the low side and on top of that the once a week dosing is not sufficient. Iron is added 3 times a week minimum because it breaks down within a few days in the water to unusable forms. You should be adding 1/8 tsp three times a week (total dose just under 0.6 ppm iron). Regular addition of iron will prevent your plants from running out during the week. Do not dose more than 1 ppm a week or you may run into toxicity issues.

*tug *- The photos are verified as well as they can be without a full lab setup. They match with known terrestrial plant symptoms from the literature and the iron doses that the owner was adding were too low. The deficiency issue was confirmed by adding iron to the tank which resulted in an explosion of healthy growth a few days after adding iron only with no other changes.

The original thread is from here if you want to read through it:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=472898&highlight=tekwarren+iron

You are right about the re-greening though, most plants do not re-green once they become iron deficient. The fact that the micro sword seemed to recover some of the green pigment in its damaged leaves seems to be a trait unique to micro swords and possibly sword plants in general.

On the other hand this issue is not likely top be nitrogen deficiency. The symptoms do not match with nitrogen's progression of damage. Nitrogen is mobile and is removed from the oldest leaves first while leaving the new leaves completely unaffected for quite some time (they remain green right up until the end). Eventually when the deficiency becomes severe and all available nitrogen has been recovered from old leaves the old leaves die from the tips inwards and the newest leaves grow out progressively smaller (as less and less nitrogen is available) until the plant stops all growth. 

This is not the same pattern we see in Alexp08's photo. His old leaves are not damaged while the new leaves are a pale white color and are only slightly smaller than normal. These are typical iron deficiency symptoms. 

This is a nitrogen deficient sword plant (note the old leaf deterioration and new smaller leaves):


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Philip and SA got the ball rolling in the right direction. Lets start with the last post from SA, first.


Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi TekWarren,
> 
> In answer to your question; yes, cuttlebone will raise the carbonate hardness (dKH) and to a lesser degree general hardness (dGH). That said I don't believe that to be the cause of the issues you describe.
> 
> ...


Seachem Flourish Comprehensive provides N. Not a lot but the OP starts dosing more and more N, then KNO3 and more everything. I stopped reading but did they start dosing a supplemental source of iron to match their KH, maybe DIY 411 mixed ruffly, this to that.

It was too bad SA didn't stay in the conversation. After words, it turned into more of a, "I love iron." "No. I love Iron more" kind of celebration.

IMO, the picture you provided and from reading most of the OP, the plant did suffer N deficiency compounded by a Phosphate deficiency - possibly. I didn't as you say "the photos are verified" but thank you. It was worth reading.

I hope to meet some of you or any of all those attending at the AGA convention. I am happy to talk with anyone there.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

tug said:


> Philip and SA got the ball rolling in the right direction. Lets start with the last post from SA, first.
> 
> Seachem Flourish Comprehensive provides N. Not a lot but the OP starts dosing more and more N, then KNO3 and more everything. I stopped reading but did they start dosing a supplemental source of iron to match their KH, maybe DIY 411 mixed ruffly, this to that.
> 
> ...


Tug, you are entitled to your opinions as is everyone else on the forum but you must show references to back up your ideas. By posting information which backs up your point of view you enable other people reading this thread to read what you have read and decide for themselves if it is correct. Simply stating things does not do that.



tug said:


> I stopped reading but did they start dosing a supplemental source of iron to match their KH, maybe DIY 411 mixed ruffly, this to that.


Read through the whole thread. I think you will agree that the issue was iron by the time you are done.



tug said:


> I hope to meet some of you or any of all those attending at the AGA convention. I am happy to talk with anyone there.


I'm not sure if I will be able to make it this year to the AGA convention. I will try though and will be happy to talk to you then or via PMs if you like.

Also, have you had a look at the website I made about a year ago? It has several images of different nutrient deficiencies in each species on it along with descriptions of the problem (which are adapted from text books and research articles). 
www.DeficiencyFinder.com


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Zapins said:


> Read through the whole thread. I think you will agree that the issue was iron by the time you are done.


My reference is the thread you use as your reference. Based on the information in the OP, it could be any number of nutrients limiting growth. It could just as easily be used to prove my "opinion", were I so inclined. It was only an innocuous question.

If you feel I should pull the information from the OP, I can.
About the same time the light was determined to be appropriate, the OP is 3 days into increased doses for N.


TekWarren said:


> I've dosed Fourish Comp every other day with a small amount of KNO3 (stump remover) inbetween...only day on 3 of this regimen but will continue.


This is how I remember it. I might have missed something.
It's the same for 3-7ppm or 44ppm CO2. Both have something to gain from adding nutrients.
With 3ppm CO2, things grow slower.

After the light.
The doses in the OP, were adjusted to address 1st week and an initial increase in all of the nutrients provided -
double dosing name brands that contain all the nutrients, no/C, etc.

Next KNO3 and PO4 are used to increase those levels further, (the OP starts to see improved color overall), EI, Fe dosing is spread out over the week. 
Adding Fe can be great. That is not to say adding more CSM+B is how you should add Fe when what your looking for is more iron.
The photographs are excellent. Link to the case study on the DF to the case studies.



> I'm not sure if I will be able to make it this year to the AGA convention. I will try though and will be happy to talk to you then or via PMs if you like.


We could start by returning a PM. Sorry about that.
I'll Pm you again if you want to take this off topic.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

tug I'll send you a message later on tonight if I have a bit of free time to write out my thoughts properly. I think we should continue our discussion about the other thread and nutrients via PM rather than take up space in this thread.

As for Alex's plants I'll sum up my argument and leave it up to him to decide what to do. A proper nutrient dosing schedule is needed with regular addition of each nutrient. Adding more of the macro nutrients may be beneficial and help avoid future problems, but the specific symptom of white new leaves on the swords is almost certainly an acute iron deficiency which can be resolved within a week or so by adding more CSM+B or another iron containing fertilizer. 0.2 ppm (approximately 1/8 tsp) added 3x a week on alternating days will stop any new leaves from growing in white.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Zappins, I understand and the dosing suggestions you've presented are harmless. Referring to a case study that seems based more on circumstance just adds more questions to an already confusing thread that philip was trying to lead us through. By all means send me a PM, if you intend to.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Okay so back on track. Im about to do a water change. its been 6 days. As per philip, my nitrate is 0 ppm on the api test. I have not dosed all week


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Do the water change but do a single dose of about 5ppm of nitrates. You don't want 0 nitrates. 

After the water change and dose test in 2-3 days for nitrates again. If its zero then you need to dose again. 

Make sure you calibrate your nitrate test. If you google it will tell you how. Its very easy and will ensure your readings are in fact correct.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Should i dose anything else?


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

What other test kits do you have? Any idea of phosphate levels?

Dosing around 5-10ppm of potassium would be good too. Micros too. Aim for about .5 iron


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

If you are to test, then test the test. Calibrate your test kits. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83545&page=4


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

okay. i just dosed potassium and i will dose micros tomorrow. Does plantex have iron in it or do i have to use something like tetra flora pride?

Bump: While we're waiting for the next 3 days to pass till I test my nitrate again, can someone shed some light on this for me. I have two other planted tanks. One is a 20g and one is a 10g neither of them have ever been dosed with anything. i keep the light on for about 13hours a day, and they both have the same substrate as my 55. and as you can see that are not in bad condition. nothing ever dies, but nothing ever grows either. 
So why am i have so much trouble with this 55??

20g


10g


Bump: oh and my phosphate is about 1ppm


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Planted has iron so yeah you can dose it.

What lighting is on those tanks compared to your 55?


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

the 20 is a strip light with some LEDS and the 10 is walmart lights lol


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

you just answered your own question. When dealing with less intense lighting the plant demands go way way down. On your main tank with the Finnex planted plus, you are providing a lot more light and therefore you need a lot more minerals a lot more micro and macro nutrients and a lot more co2.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

gotcha, thanks!


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Not sure if this helps determine my issue or one part of my issues but here is a picture of the java ferns i got 5 days ago. They looked great when i put them in but they are already browning.


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

Mine did that when i had too much iron.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

okay well after 3 days i retested the nitrates and it is zero. So i redosed


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

You do not want to wait till your nitrates bottom out. Try to find a dosing schedule that will maintain about 10ppm NO3, 1ppm PO4 add some K2SO4 and trace as needed now that your lighting appropriately matches you goals. Change the water once a month. What is wrong with that?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Just to introduce a new thought here: you probably have enough light that the plants are having some difficulty finding enough carbon to grow at the rate the light drives them to. I have the same light, on a 65 gallon tank, which is 24 inches high, and my light is suspended about 24 inches from the substrate. What I do different from you is dose Excel. I dose two capfuls, about 10 ml per day. My plants are doing very well now, but took a few months to reach that stage. No algae problems. I switched to Metrocide instead of Excel a couple of weeks ago, and the plants continue to do well.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

One of the many functions K+ performs is helping to transport NO3 and PO4 into the cell wall.
It's not surprising that your nitrate levels would go down once you started to add K2SO4. As I understand it limiting PO4 will also limit the demand for NO3.

Now a dosing schedule that will maintain about 10-20ppm NO3, 1-2ppm PO4 add some K2SO4 and trace as needed now that your lighting appropriately matches you goals. Change the water once a month. The plants should do very well.

Add Excel/Metrocide and adjust your dosing to follow suit. Soon enough you and the plants will settle in and testing will no longer be necessary.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Okay, so how accurate are API test? Cause either my tank eats up nitrates like crazy or my API test is wrong. ive been dosing, then checking the next day and its always 0ppm. Ive been dosing what the package i got from greenleaf recommends which is 1/2 TSP. But its always reading zero. on the up side, nothing has seemed to die in about a week now, on the other hand i took a stem of temple narrow and stuck it in and it looks pretty bad.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Accurate enough...

Greenleaf is not.macros. has very little nitrates and other macros. So your really not dosing any macros which is part of the problem.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Accuracy is the combination of both trueness and precision. Which is why any measuring devise needs to be calibrated with a known or assigned correctness called the standard. Without taking the time to calibrate them, they are worthless, IMHO. 

What are you dosing these days?

Bump:


Alexp08 said:


> I have been dosing
> 1/2 tsp KNO3
> 1/8 tsp KH2PO4
> 1/8 tsp K2SO4
> 1/8 tsp PLANTEXI have been dosing for about a month and a half now. It has slowed down the death but hasn't stopped it altogether


For your 55 gallon tank you are adding w/each dose;
1/2 tsp KNO3 = 7.7ppm 
1/8 tsp KH2PO4 = 2.4ppm
1/8 tsp K2SO4 = 1.7ppm
1/8 tsp PLANTEX = 0.17ppm (call it 0.2)

Modified EI for low light/weekly dosing suggests you add more
and provides the following w/each dose.

KNO3 = 10ppm
KH2PO4 = 1ppm
K2SO4 = 10ppm
PLANTEX = 0.2ppm Fe

The only level that concerns me is the low level of nitrate. For easy dosing add 3/4 teaspoon/week or ruffly 11.5ppm/week. If you trust your test results you might need more but at this point it's really hard to look back through all of the changes after the light was adjusted. So a summery of what you've been doing after adjusting the light, would be helpful for everyone.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

After I moved up the light i continued to does 
1/2 tsp KNO3
1/8 tsp KH2PO4
1/8 tsp K2SO4
1/8 tsp PLANTEX
For about a week. once per week

Last week i started to does KNO3 then 2-3 days later test
this week ive been dosing KNO3 and testing the next day then redosing. 

Also the hair algae is getting worse. My LFS told me to add some rosey barbs and said they would eat it, but my LFS has horrible fish and they died 4 days later so i cannot say whether that helped or not


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

So much hardship does take the fun out of this hobby and makes it hard to push on. I've been there.

I checked my math and corrected the ppm KNO3 for 1/2 tsp. I thought something was wrong. Ends up it was me. You can change your KNO3 dose to 3/4 tsp, even 1 tsp/week and see where that gets you. I personally would not let NO3 dip below 10ppm - PO4, around 2ppm.

I can not tell you definitively what causes algae. I can say that it is not from the fertilizer you are adding. IME, it is most often due to an ammonia spike and/or might have something to do with our bacteria colonies and their demand for oxygen. This would make some sense to me given the often suggested increase in flow needed with planted tanks. It is only conjecture on my part but if the filter is well colonized and gets the lions share of any ammonia/urea, there is less for the algae.


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## greaser84 (Feb 2, 2014)

Alexp08 said:


> Okay, so how accurate are API test? Cause either my tank eats up nitrates like crazy or my API test is wrong. ive been dosing, then checking the next day and its always 0ppm. Ive been dosing what the package i got from greenleaf recommends which is 1/2 TSP. But its always reading zero. on the up side, nothing has seemed to die in about a week now, on the other hand i took a stem of temple narrow and stuck it in and it looks pretty bad.


Those test can be very inaccurate. Here's a homemade calibration by Hoppy, I suggest you test your PO4 and NO3. I've had NO3 test off by 20ppm other test not off at all. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83545&highlight=calibration


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## imcmaster (Jan 30, 2015)

Alexp08 said:


> Okay, so how accurate are API test? Cause either my tank eats up nitrates like crazy or my API test is wrong. ive been dosing, then checking the next day and its always 0ppm. Ive been dosing what the package i got from greenleaf recommends which is 1/2 TSP. But its always reading zero. on the up side, nothing has seemed to die in about a week now, on the other hand i took a stem of temple narrow and stuck it in and it looks pretty bad.


I have seen many posts of people testing for Nitrates and say they get zero, but after rigorously shaking (I think bottle #2?) they often see high nitrate levels. It would be in your best interest to shake/bang the test drops to ensure that their was no separation from the drops sitting too long. It sounds like the heavy liquid can drop and even stick to the bottom, and must be well shaken again to be accurate.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Should i does that KNO3 at once or throughout the week? And ive been useing fluval zerocarb which is suppose to remove ammonia. The filter has been running on this tank since i set it up so i would assume it is established. 



imcmaster said:


> I have seen many posts of people testing for Nitrates and say they get zero, but after rigorously shaking (I think bottle #2?) they often see high nitrate levels. It would be in your best interest to shake/bang the test drops to ensure that their was no separation from the drops sitting too long. It sounds like the heavy liquid can drop and even stick to the bottom, and must be well shaken again to be accurate.


HAHAHA yes i do shake very well. I reread the directions to make sure i was doing it right.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

okay now we're getting somewhere lol i just got done with a water change, added all the macros. 1tsb of KNO3 and vigorously shook all the bottle and the mixed solution. Its reading approx 30ppm of nitrates


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Well that doesn't make sense.

1tsp of kno3 in a 50g would yield 17ppm nitrates not 30.


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## imcmaster (Jan 30, 2015)

philipraposo1982 said:


> Well that doesn't make sense.
> 
> 1tsp of kno3 in a 50g would yield 17ppm nitrates not 30.


Correct. I'm still of the opinion that there were previously levels of nitrates (now it seems about 15ppm), but they never were previously detected by the test kit. With the addition of 17ppm, now yields 30ppm? Depends on whether alexp feels the testing process is now different (i.e. now shaking the bottle differently before applying drops).


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Alex did you ever calibrate this nitrate test kit?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Well I'm all for it, though it means some calibration error. No worries, unless you feel like calibrating your test. The LD50 for C. japonica (Amano algae eating shrimp) is 120ppm NO3 - much higher for fish. Maybe knock back the dose to 3/4 tsp per week with a monthly 50% water change. Do you have a reading for PO4?


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

well ive always shook the bottles but this time i really shook them so maybe that made a difference.

as far as my water already having 15ppm in it, i had just got done doing a water change / filter media change. I tested the water yesterday or the day before and it was still reading zero, i did not add any furts as i knew i would be doing a water change. So what I am saying is either the test kit reads zero when its 0-15 or it reads high when it should read 15ppm. 

I did not calibrate the test because as i was reading throughout the thread a few people stated that API where fairly accurate in the nitrate test. 
However it seems fairly easy to do so i might as well do it. 

Tug, are you stating a monthly 50% water change as opposed to weekly or are you recommending a 100% water change per month? and yes i have the API test kit for PO4


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

How are the plants doing now with more nitrates? Any chance of new pictures?

Did you ever end up adding more iron as I suggested a few weeks ago?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Alexp08 said:


> Tug, are you stating a monthly 50% water change as opposed to weekly or are you recommending a 100% water change per month? and yes i have the API test kit for PO4


50% once a month with appropriate dosing and as long as you are dosing PO4 as stated, I'm good with that. I just wondered if the PO4 test was fluky. 


Zapins said:


> Did you ever end up adding more iron as I suggested a few weeks ago?





Alexp08 said:


> After I moved up the light i continued to does
> 1/2 tsp KNO3
> 1/8 tsp KH2PO4
> 1/8 tsp K2SO4
> ...


So about 0.2 ppm Fe per dose. Lets get through the easy stuff first. :wink:


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Should i only do monthly water changes on all my planted?

Bump: and no, i have not upped the iron yet, im trying one thing at a time.


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

I believe Walstad method suggests fewer water changes and the logic makes sense in planted tanks. It might even be wise to aerate the water you will be adding to the tank, over night, to match the ambient CO2 levels of those in the tank but not required.

If you calibrate the tests, you can match your dosing more closely to the percent uptake by the plants. For now, adding a 1/2 tsp KNO3 would extend NO3 concentrations bellow 50ppm in 3 months - were uptake only 1/4 of the dose. More realistically at 50% uptake, after three months, NO3 levels would be around 30ppm. More plants and larger plants and uptake increases to say 75% and NO3 values stay between 10 and 15ppm.

How hard is your water where you live and if you can, provide a link to your local water quality report?


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Would that method hold the same principle since im not using a dirt substrate?

PO4 = about 5ppm

Link to water 
http://www.mde.state.md.us/programs...R2014/Allegany/0010008_City_of_Cumberland.pdf


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

The main difference between weekly and monthly water changes is you need to pay more attention to GH. AT 79 ppm (mostly Ca in most cases) Mg levels are often low/absent and can limit growth and/or become deficient. Your water doesn't look as if it's adding much of anything else of any significance.

The 1/8 tsp PO4 dose is a little on the high side to begin with and in your case a weekly dose half that might bring it back in line w/NO3. So, 1/16 tsp KH2PO4, 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/8 tsp K2SO4 for now. Possibly adding 1-2 tsp MgSO 4.7H 2O (epsom salt) once a week - additional iron yet to be discussed. 

The other two tanks could likely benefit from a small amount of added nutrients as well as monthly 50% water changes.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Wouldn't adding epsom salt hurt my cardinal tetras?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

In what way would it hurt the cardinal tetras? Adding 1 tsp epsom salt to your tank would add ruffly 0.15 dGH per dose and 2.6ppm of the macronutrient, Mg - most of which will be used by the plants.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Not sure, when i was looking into cardinals i was told to not add epsom salt as they are very sensitive. However no one showed the numbers like you just did. Should i add these in any specific order or different days?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

The things we can learn from keeping planted tanks will hopefully explain a lot of the myths we believe about keeping fish. It's one of the main benefits of this hobby, IMHO.

The Mg, you can add with the water change and once a week there after - same for the KNO3 and KH2PO4.
Plantex can be added to the tank on the same day as the WC or you can can add it the next day if you rather - once a week.

Supplementing the iron can be done either of two ways and would not require adding more trace nutrients then you already do.

One way is to buy a bottle of flourish Iron (Fe gluconate) or their other brand, AquaVitro Propel that has a combination of chelated Fe types.
*2mL, added every other day (other then the day you add Plantex CSM+B) will add 0.1 ppm Fe per dose.*


The DIY version would be to buy Fe gluconate and DTPA Fe and make your own version of the AquaVitro Propel.
Every three months or so throw in an extra water change to reset the nutrient levels as needed.

Just be aware, the 1 tsp MgSO4 is half the recommended weekly dose but it should be plenty and you can always adjust it as needed. The bass awkward test for Mg is (test #1) PPM General hardness as CaCO3 less (test #2) PPM Ca hardness as CaCO3, i.e., PPM General hardness as CaCO3 minus PPM Ca hardness as CaCO3 = PPM Mg hardness as CaCO3.

By the way, it's beautiful country in Cumberland. You must be getting a good amount of snow.
I used to camp up that way on occasion but only passed through there once this time of year on my way west when I drove to Colorado.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

okay so dosing regime per week
1/16 tsp KH2PO4
1/2 tsp KNO3
1/8 tsp K2SO4
1 tsp MgSO
And a once a month 50% water change.

How much iron should i add? and ill be going with flourish iron.

Im planning on adding some more plant mass this week or next. Any recommendations on plants?

And yes it is beautiful up here! It is actually snowing right now lol


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Red Tiger Lotus, Bacopa varieties, Ludwigia repens, Hygrophia corymbosa or difformis, should all do well.
It might mean bumping the KNO3 to 5/8-3/4tsp.

Let me think about an all in one dry mix for NPK that you could dose from a single teaspoon measure.

I edited the previous post to highlight the flourish dose of 2mL.
I have it dosed every other day with the plants you have - new additions might require daily doses of the same.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Ohh ok, i didnt see that! okay i will look into some of those plants. Most will be bought off ebay as my LFS has very little


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Once you settle into a dosing routine that suits your tank, rather then dosing NPK individually, you can combine the three into one dry mix. 

Something like this with a little more K+ added for measure;

10(1/16) to 1(1/16) to 5(0.0625) = current dose plus K+
KNO3 (0.625 tsp) + KH2PO4 (0.0625 tsp) + K2SO4 (0.3 tsp) = 1 tsp dose per 200L 

Dosing .5 tsp in 100L water provides
10 ppm, NO3
1.2 ppm, PO4
4.3 ppm, K+​
So to combine 10 dry doses add;
6.25 tsp (KNO3) + 0.625 tsp (KH2PO4) + 3 tsp (K2SO4) and dose 1 tsp/200L

When you are ready to add your plants reset the tank with a series of 2x 50-60% water changes. One before you add the plants (do not dose anything after the WC) and then a 50-60% water change after the new plants are added to the tank and start dosing as suggested after the second WC. This can also be done every three months or if NO3 levels are climbing to fast.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Okay im a tad bit confused. 
I thought i was to does 1/2 tsb KNO3 per week. 

But the 10:1:4 ratio says to do that 1/2 tsb per week, wouldnt that be too little KNO3 per week?

When i make this mixture, if im understanding correctly, which its completely possible im not! I should do 5 TSB kno3, 1/8 tsb KH2PO4 and 1 tsb of K2SO4. That would give me the 10:1:4 right? And that would give me enough for approx 3 months worth? at dosing 1/2 tsb per week. 
Or would it be 2.5 TSB kno3, 1/4 tsb KH2PO4 and 1 tsb of K2SO4. Which would give me about 6 weeks dosing at 1/2 tsb per dose. 

Also i may have jumped the gun but i just bought some Ludwigia repens and some temple narrow leaf (it was cheap). They should be here this week, Should i still do the 50% before and after? also how many days after i add them should i do the 50% in the future?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Absolutely right. The thing could make for a great DIY hack. A GH booster, only for NPK. I'm way off on the ratios and the dose though. Sorry. Glad that you tried working it out. Math is like climbing a rope with a free end for me most days.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Okay so 
5/8 TSB KNO3
1/16 TSB KH2PO41
1/8 TSB of K2SO4
1 TSB of MgSO
1/8 TSB of Plantex
Once a week

2 mL or Iron every other day except on the day of plantex

50% Water change oncea month

Correct?


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## tug (Mar 22, 2009)

Correct for EI *low* light/weekly but it should also work in the low middle ranges too, depending on uptake percentages.
You can use http://rota.la to follow the dosing outcomes.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Alright well my new plants will be here sometime this week, the Fe will be here tomorrow. So ill keep you updated. Thanks for the help thus far!


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Would i be ablw to grow Red Stemmed Parrot Myriophyllum brasillensis? Theyre one of my fav plants and i tried before and they died like everything else. But i didnt know if they were a more demanding plant and thats why they died.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Alexp08 said:


> Would i be ablw to grow Red Stemmed Parrot Myriophyllum brasillensis? Theyre one of my fav plants and i tried before and they died like everything else. But i didnt know if they were a more demanding plant and thats why they died.


No, you won't. 
Myriophyllum Brasiliensis is a marginal bog plant and will only grow up through about a foot of water. It's more for ponds. If you like it that much, you could get a suction cup submerged pot and let it grow up out of your tank, or out of the back of a hob. I can't say what the submerged portion would look like, probably not good.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Dead2fall said:


> No, you won't.
> Myriophyllum Brasiliensis is a marginal bog plant and will only grow up through about a foot of water. It's more for ponds. If you like it that much, you could get a suction cup submerged pot and let it grow up out of your tank, or out of the back of a hob. I can't say what the submerged portion would look like, probably not good.


Thats disappointing but thanks for the quick response!


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Slight problem. I just did a nitrate check. Shook the hell out of the bottles. Well my Nitrate is about 100 PPM. last water change was probably the 1st. Ive dosed nitrate twice a 3/4tsb. 

Now i just tripled my plant mass, so should i leave it be and see what the new plants do by tomorrow? or should i increase the light duration? or water change?


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Okay, im back. Id say forget about the problem above. The same thing is happening as before I significantly increased my plant mass about 4 days ago. And already the stems are turning brown and becoming mush and falling apart. This was the same problem i had months ago. and is why im thinking of giving up....

pic of tank now


New plants were temple narrow leaf, water wisteria and dwarf sag. 
I have to hand full of dead plants and this pic was taken after that. 

Help!


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