# Herbie Overflow with dual overflow boxes?



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

What do you need help with? 

Your tank is already pre-drilled with plumbing intact. No, you do not need gate valves. You can use them but you DO NOT NEED them.

All you need to do is route the drain plumbing into a sump.


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## PlantedDiscusTank (Oct 27, 2014)

Are the two holes different size. I believe one hole is a return line (the smaller one) and the other is the drain on that tank, made for a dual durso pipe drain system. But you can use it for a herbie system instead.

For a herbie, you put a gate valve on one drain line and tune it to maintain a constant syphon drain. The other drain would be for a safety with a durso pipe. Guess you could use the return lines for safety drains also and run tubing up the back of the tank if you wanted.

Check out some youtube vids. This one shows an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9rpHl6X6v4

The herbie drain is going to be fast and silent.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

So things I have read online so far, and not sure if I should attempt, it makes me bit uneasy.

I noticed several people that have drilled the back of the tank, so the return can go on each side of the back of the tank, this way I don't have to run the returns over the back.

The other things I have noticed is that several sites have suggested drilling another hole in each overflow box towards the bottom and to add bulk head and connect it to each side of the overflow, this helps keeps the overflow boxes balanced.

Both holes are 1 inch in the bulkhead

I would assume I should use 1 inch PVC for the primary drain and secondary?

Thanks so much


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Is this the tank you have?









In each corner you have two holes. One for a drain and one for a return. I am not sure on a tank that large but the smaller hole is usually for the return.

If this is the tank you have, You run the drain plumbing into a sump and hook up your returns to dual water pumps. I would recommend running dual return pumps for that size of a tank. Your sump should be around 30 gallons in capacity giving you a total of 210 gallons of water. Are you running a reef on this tank or a planted tank?

If you are going reef, adding live rock will greatly decrease the ACTUAL amount of water in your system. If the tank is planted, adding wood and rock will also decrease water value but not by much. 

If running a reef tank, you will need two return pumps rated for at least 1000gph each and at a certain height. So if your sump is 5 feet from the top of the return pipe, you will need to buy a pump that is rated for 1000gph at a height of 5 feet. I recommend buying return pumps that are at least a bit adjustable in their return rates.

If running a planted tank, you can cut those return rates approximately by half so you want 500gph at a height of 5ft per pump. A general rule of thumb is you want to turn over your reef tank 10x an hr and 5x an hr for a planted tank. Me personally would not turn my reef tank over any less that 10x per hour. That is my experience. I have both a reef and planted tank.

Keep the questions coming if you have them.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

Yep that the tank I have, but those types of drains are really loud, so the herbie drain is that you have a primary drain and backup drain in each overflow box, and then your returns come up over the back of the tank.


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## PlantedDiscusTank (Oct 27, 2014)

No, the return does not come over the top. It would still be thru the return lines.

But instead of using 2 durso drains, one is converted to a herbie drain, the other remains a durso as safety.

But if you really wanted, you could use all three lines as drains. But I would not suggest it.

Are you sure the holes thru the bottom of the tank are all the same size? 1" bulkheads?


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

PlantedDiscusTank said:


> No, the return does not come over the top. It would still be thru the return lines.
> 
> But instead of using 2 durso drains, one is converted to a herbie drain, the other remains a durso as safety.
> 
> ...


Yes about the bulkheads as I contacted marineland and that what email I got back from them says, plus I just confirmed.

Here what I have been reading about how to plumb it.

Herbie method for Dual Overflows | gmacreef


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

You can set up the drains like this....









And yes, the return comes out over the top of the corner overflow like this....









Bump: On a tank that large, you DO NOT want to remove a return line and covert it to a drain. There are many ways of decreasing the sound.

To decrease the sound, you can add an air intake into your standpipe. So look at the first picture. the white pipe is your drain. You can add a "T" piece of PVC to the standpipe so that the top of the pipe (not the part that 90s down in the water) sits above the water line to allow air into your standpipe. It will prevent water rushing and gurgling. The next step is to tweak you sump to reduce splashing.


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## PlantedDiscusTank (Oct 27, 2014)

1). Leave the right drain alone as a durso pipe and plump it into your sump.
2). Replace the left durso pipe with PVC maybe half the height so it's under water.
3). Setup the drain as a herbie with a gate valve on it and plumb it into your sump.
4). Close the gate valve all the way.
5). Turn on your return pump to make sure it does not overflow with one drain. It should make all kinds of nasty sucks, flushing sounds. But it should not overflow the tank. you may have to turn down the return pump with a bypass.
6). Open the gate valve slowly until a perfect siphon is reached on the herbie drain ensuring that it is always under water.
7). A little flow should be seen in the durso pipe side.

If this doesn't work for you, you'll have to stick with the durso pipes. And the flow rate on those drains it more like half of what they say. Install a bypass valve on the return pump if you need to tune it down or get a smaller pump. I would say something like 700gph max. Maybe less.

What pump are you running now?

Don't drill the tank. Seems like overkill on a tank that already has 4 holes in it.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Is it the drain itself or the actual overflow box that is limiting GPH? I broke out most of the teeth on my 18" of overflow to be able to use all ~2000GPH my pumps push. The drain definitely wasn't the problem. The stainless steel mesh that replaced those teeth does a far better job of keeping fish out of the overflow too.

Love the idea of combining the durso and the valved short full drain. Durso aren't all that quiet with a lot of water running through but the full drain will carry more water than the durso, it ought to be quieter that way.

Why not bring a return over the side of the tank? Why not drill new holes in the tank for returns? If I had a dual overflow with 2 equal sized holes in each I'd be trying out dual herbies and bringing returns over the top of the tank and if that worked out and I needed the setup to be a bit sleeker I might drill the tank.


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## PlantedDiscusTank (Oct 27, 2014)

Also if you are worried about overflowing the main tank, you raise the return pump in the sump by building a stand out of egg crate. This way if a drain gets clogged, and you have say 2ft of water in the sump, but the pump is raised a 1ft off the bottom, only a 1ft of water gets pumped into the main tank before the pump runs dry.

Your main tank should have some reserve before it overflows. A water level 2" below the top on a 72"x24" tank is almost 15 gallons. An equivalent amount of water in a 48"x18" sump is 4".

You will also need to make sure the sump does not overflow in a power outage.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I would run 3 of these holes in the Bean Animal concept:
1= full flow, no air. Use a ball valve to adjust the flow. This one will do about 95%+ of the flow out of the tank. 
2= little trickle. Just enough to sheet the inside of the pipe, little or no air gurgle. You can watch this one to be sure that number 1 is doing almost all the work. If the first pipe is not doing its share, then more water will be going down number 2, to the point of catching some air and making noise. This is the one that sets the height of water in the tank. 
3= emergency. Usually dry. If the water in the tank gets just a bit higher it will start to flow down this. If this has any water in it when you check the system, there is a problem. It may get used each time you do a water change, and refill. During the initial adjustment of the plumbing it is likely that the water will rise higher in the tank and overflow through this pipe. 
4= may be used as a return from the sump. 

Holes suited to 1" pipe would use 1" bulkheads, but it is possible to use an adapter and put larger pipe in most of the system. I do not know how this restriction will affect the system, though.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

Diana said:


> I would run 3 of these holes in the Bean Animal concept:
> 1= full flow, no air. Use a ball valve to adjust the flow. This one will do about 95%+ of the flow out of the tank.
> 2= little trickle. Just enough to sheet the inside of the pipe, little or no air gurgle. You can watch this one to be sure that number 1 is doing almost all the work. If the first pipe is not doing its share, then more water will be going down number 2, to the point of catching some air and making noise. This is the one that sets the height of water in the tank.
> 3= emergency. Usually dry. If the water in the tank gets just a bit higher it will start to flow down this. If this has any water in it when you check the system, there is a problem. It may get used each time you do a water change, and refill. During the initial adjustment of the plumbing it is likely that the water will rise higher in the tank and overflow through this pipe.
> ...


Thanks for the info so far, are you saying then one return would be more than enough even though they are corner overflows? Just figured with it being on one side of the tank that would not work well?

Would the emergency go in the same overflow as the return?

Thanks


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I do not know if one return will be enough. You can sure move a LOT of water through 1" pipe, though. You could set it up with a spray bar and distribute the flow fairly evenly over most of the tank. 

I do not know if it matters which hole does what, if they are all the same size. 

PVC Pipes - Friction Loss and Flow Velocity - Schedule 40
BeanAnimal's Bar and Grill - Silent and Fail-Safe Overflow System


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

I have a 125g that is drilled with two overflows. I use one side for the drain and emergency, while the other overflow is just the return. 

I'll take a picture later today


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

scapegoat said:


> I have a 125g that is drilled with two overflows. I use one side for the drain and emergency, while the other overflow is just the return.
> 
> I'll take a picture later today


Thanks so much this would be very helpful, also if you would not mind sharing how you did the plumbing as well. Does your one overflow not get stagnant?

Thanks


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

I completely forgot to grab pictures, I am very sorry. I'm a bit busy today with work, but will try to remember this evening while I do a water change.

The overflow that houses the return does get a little water movement, but I'm sure not enough. If you take a look at my journal (link in sig) you'll see that I have water hooked up to the room the tank is in. I have two hoses, one for hot one for cold, going into that overflow and fill my aquarium from there. So it gets flushed out twice a week when I do my changes.

If I could do this tank over, I'd have gotten a standard tank and drilled the back to do a full weir overflow


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

scapegoat said:


> I completely forgot to grab pictures, I am very sorry. I'm a bit busy today with work, but will try to remember this evening while I do a water change.
> 
> The overflow that houses the return does get a little water movement, but I'm sure not enough. If you take a look at my journal (link in sig) you'll see that I have water hooked up to the room the tank is in. I have two hoses, one for hot one for cold, going into that overflow and fill my aquarium from there. So it gets flushed out twice a week when I do my changes.
> 
> If I could do this tank over, I'd have gotten a standard tank and drilled the back to do a full weir overflow


Thanks for the info I will check our your sig and see it. I agree if I had to do it over again as well I would do it the same way with standard tank


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