# My water parameters for my Dario's



## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=626 says:
_"They are not too particular about water conditions: temperatures of 18-26°C are OK, although the cooler end of this is better. The pH and hardness don’t seem important, not even for breeding as long as extremes are avoided."_
I'have them in an unheated tank about 16C in winter / 26C in summer.
My tap water is about 7,5pH, 5GH, your pH is maybe too low, then again I've kept them in an outside pond in summertime with only rain water (wich is very soft & low in pH, no problems there.
In my experience it is very difficult to find females, so I hope you're lucky roud:, also females tend to get dropsy quit easily, (not just my experience).
I recommend weekly water changes of at leat 20%-25%, that seems to avoid that problem.
Looking forward to see some pictures of your tank.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Asgard said:


> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=626 says:
> _"They are not too particular about water conditions: temperatures of 18-26°C are OK, although the cooler end of this is better. The pH and hardness don’t seem important, not even for breeding as long as extremes are avoided."_
> I'have them in an unheated tank about 16C in winter / 26C in summer.
> My tap water is about 7,5pH, 5GH, your pH is maybe too low, then again I've kept them in an outside pond in summertime with only rain water (wich is very soft & low in pH, no problems there.
> ...


Seems like they are pretty hardy fish. I would think that a constant clean environment with live foods feed as a main diet would bring out the best in them.

Here is some links floating around about the dario (Badis).Obviously some are better than others. By no means is this a conprensive list but its a start :icon_mrgr :

PracticalFishKeeping: Antti Vuorela and Stefan van der Voort take a look at Badis and Dario. _As you quoted above_ roud:

Badis, Dario also known as chameleon fish _(I didn't know that)_

Breeding Badis Bengalensis (aka Badis sp. scarlet) by Arthit Prasartkul Jan, 25th 2002

Badis badis badis, Hamilton, 1822

David's Ttropical Fish

Scarlet badis (dario dario)

This guy thought he had two males when in fact one of them was actually a female.


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

dantra said:


> Seems like they are pretty hardy fish. I would think that a constant clean environment with live foods feed as a main diet would bring out the best in them.


That's my experience also, dry (flakes etc.) is not taken, some badis species seem to get used to flakes, my dario's don't. Not a problem for me since I keep them with rhinogobius duospilus (white cheeked gobies) which also take only live/frozen food. I feed them mainly live white/red mosquito larvae, tubifex, enchytrea (home bred), daphnia and cyclops. The latter are very easy for me since I live next to water which is rich in daphnia and cyclops for most of the year. They favor the worm like foods, just like the gobies.
Also I have a lot of Red Cherry shrimp in the tank, the shrimplets are also easy live food. I've had some fry of the dario's, sadly just males at the moment just 1 female (2-3yo) and 7 males.
Showing off my tank(s) :icon_wink
http://www.venividivissie.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=34952&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=360

gr. René


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

You know, that's a great idea! I remember someone talking about keeping cherry shrimps as a source of live food on this forum. I've kept shrimps before, they were Amano's and that was short term. Gave them away.

I had no idea that cherry shrimplettes _(<-- is that even a word?)_ are small enough to fit in a dario's mouth. Since they favor worms, I will order some California Blackworms tomorrow and try and keep some on the side so the worms will be readily available.

By the way nice tank and I especially like the Gobi's.


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## bryony (Jul 3, 2007)

I'd try grindal woms, bbs are also a good idea. The ph does seem a bit low.


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

dantra said:


> You know, that's a great idea! I remember someone talking about keeping cherry shrimps as a source of live food on this forum. I've kept shrimps before, they were Amano's and that was short term. Gave them away. I had no idea that cherry shrimplettes _(<-- is that even a word?)_ are small enough to fit in a dario's mouth.


I've amano's too, mainly for algae controls which works fine, guess the amano larvae also are eaten, they're even smaller then RCS shrimplets. Never seen the dario's hunting for RCS young so it could be that the RCS offspring is mainly goby food. Then again the shrimplets are very small so it shouldn't be a problem.


dantra said:


> Since they favor worms, I will order some California Blackworms tomorrow and try and keep some on the side so the worms will be readily available.


Guess breeding youre own blakworms isn't possible, so I go with bryony and advice grindals, (enchytrea) easy to breed yourself so you'll never run out of food, throw in some RCS and your done :icon_wink



dantra said:


> By the way nice tank and I especially like the Gobi's.


Thank you!, The gobies are great and very funny to watch, love dario's they're little gems, too bad my galaxies stay a bit shy, they're beautifull too. Started out with a N. Vietnam/S.E. China biotope idea, White cheeked gobies, White Cloud Mountain Minnows, Sewellia's and bee & RCS shrimp, but couldn't resist the dario's and galaxies.

Keep posting, I'd like to see how you fair with your dario's


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Hey Asgard, there is a thread floating around this forum about a guy who kept blackworms successfully in a small tank. He feed the worms and had a steady supply of the blackworms the his fish. Unfortunately I can't seem to find it at the moment. I'll keep trying to locate it. It might have been another forum.

The Dario's haven't arrived yet so I trimmed some plants, replanted and reorganized a bit. Here is a sneak-peek :icon_mrgr


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

I have 6 Scarlet Darios in my 29 gallon tank. Have had them for two weeks. As is typical, they do not eat the flake and/or the other prepared foods that I feed the other fish, but they pick at things too small to see from the leaves of the plants and Java Moss. They are plump and happy... I have no idea what they're eating, though!


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Rob, out of the six dario's do you have any females? If it isn't too much trouble, can you post a pic? 



Rob in Puyallup said:


> IThey are plump and happy... I have no idea what they're eating, though!


That's hilarious. A plump and happy fish is a healthy fish :icon_mrgr Seems like they are eating something. Perhaps the darios are eating the left over food when your not looking.


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

Nice setup, if the fish stay a bit shy in the background, you might add some plants in the foreground for shelter. Makes them more at ease.

They might be eating zooplankton
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Dario&species=dario&id=41#10

How about this little gem, Black Tiger Dario: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Dario&species=sp.+%27myanmar%27&id=1338 Highly on my wishlist


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

The ario sp. 'myanmar' - Black Tiger Dario is a very attractive fish. I would definitely be all over this given the opportunity. Thanks for the links, they are very useful roud:



Asgard said:


> They might be eating zooplankton


They may very well be eating zooplankton. Rob says, his fish are plump and happy. I guess a well established tank goes a long way with dario's.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Asgard, I'm on a search for live foods for the fish :icon_mrgr. Here is the photo of the tank:










I got a partial shipment in for the fish I ordered. Here are a couple of crappy photo's of my fish:

Male and Female









Female


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

Nice tank! ..no background? Once the plants are fully grown it will look like dario paradise!
Female? looks a little white, I remember that when my fish where white they developed dropsy. Could be a coincidence, though. Not too sure that the white one is female, could be a non-dominant male, once settled the difference will show. My females are grey(ish), not white.
Most LFS's over here sell live tubifex, mosquito larvae, daphnia etc. Untill you find live food, frozen is ok, at first feed just a little, the fish might not be used to frozen food. 
Frozen red mosquito is readily taken by my dario's. and once your tank is fully matured in a few months they will also find all kinds of infusoria etc.
btw your pictures are not 'crappy'


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## flora (Sep 7, 2008)

*Darios*

Recently I read that telling the males from the females is simple. There is no color in the females fins.


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

@dantra, not to steal your topic, but here are some of my dario pictures


This male turned white.


















Like this.








and then died of dropsy. :frown:

Female, no red, just gray and blue.









But this female has some red.... but a gray body.









Showing off..


















Winner takes the girl home.









Some weeks later.. one of about 5









Female with juvenile male. Too bad allways all offspring is male, maybe a temp. thingy.









Mr. no-stripes









Mr. stripes.









Another female









This '******' (male) also died from dropsy.









Who? me? no it wasn't me..









maybe this pics will help you determine what you do/don't have.
I'm a bit concerned about the white looking fish though, hopefully it'll be allright.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Asgard and everyone else, please feel free to post anything you like because any information is a contribution to all. That said, your tank looks amazing and your fish are beautiful... I'm jealous!!!

Well what you are showing me definitely resembles the fish I have so I will definitely keep an eye on it. Perhaps its a domination trait reflective to the dario's? The reason I thought it might have been a female is because they usually follow each other around. Now I am a bit concerned but all looks well thus far although mine do look a bit scrawny compared to yours.

I really appreciate everyones ideas, thoughts and advice about the dario's. It's been extremely helpful. I will try to plump them up some. 

Once again, your fish looks wonderful! roud:

Dan


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

In my experience the fish that turned white all died, 2 or 3 in total, some still lived for weeks though while white.
The white male from the first pictures didn't mind a little dominance fight so it's not a color of submission sort of thing.
btw, there are no 'real' fights, the males show off to each other and sometimes may chase each other for a little distance, but moments later they might school together like nothing happened. The fish are not territorial and only when in 'mating' mode will they defend a piece of moss or something, so they can persuade a female to mate. Usually that behavior lasts only a few days until the female stops laying eggs. After that all interest for the eggs or fry is lost and aggression lowers to normal values.


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Wow you defintely called it. I just checked up on them and one is dead and another one is swimming like its dizzy sort of drunk and off balance. I'll keep you posted.


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

That's too bad, what are your water parameters (temp.) at the moment?


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

It's in German, but google-translate can help you,
http://www.nothobranchius.de/html/zwergblaubarsche.html has some info on the white specimens, looks like a bacterial infection (hence my dropsy experience), your other fish may be infected too.

more dario sp. from that site: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.nothobranchius.de+dario&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enNL285NL286&ie=UTF-8&hl=en

Another article with a white dario, that died http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/c...&file=viewtopic&t=12067&highlight=dario+dario


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

As always, wonderful links and great articles. The last link was unsettling because I just experienced the same thing. Its a shame that I experienced that because the fish were supposed to be quarantine for 2 weeks before they were shipped to me. I received them before the 2 week quarantine time was up.

It clearly states:
***All shipment are QT for at least two weeks.
**We only send healthy fish.*

I know for a fact that it didn't happen in my tank. The fish looked like that right out of the box, before I even opened the bags. Here are the photos I've taken of them when they were unpacked:




























I woke up this morning to find another dead fish looking very pale. :frown: The only one that survived was this one looking healthy and strong. He is eating and swimming around like he owns the place, fins flared and colorful.










Out of the 4 fish that was shipped to me only one survived thus far. I will definitely keep an eye on him. I think he will be fine or is that wishful thinking?

Asgard, thank you for all the links you provided. I'm sure it will help many people who has kept or are thinking about keeping dario's. Hopefully my experience will help others as well.

Dan


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

I have to say, looking at your fish again, they look big and plump. Well rounded and happy. Contrast that to the dario's I received one can clearly see the difference. :frown:


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

Well, you most certainly didn't receive healthy fish! but maybe the people at Invertz Factory thought they (the white fish) were females.
I would send them (Invertz Factory ) an email with the pictures of the received fish, including the links to the url's of the experiences of the sickness (white fish) and ask either for a refund or a new shipment of (healthy fish). If they deny sending sick fish you could point out that the white one(s) at least look very malnourished and most certainly not healthy. Hopefully they'll understand and you'll receive the refund or new fish.

The last one looks healthy and not affected, I hope he will be fine.
If it is/was a bacterial infection (I'd put my money on that) the last fish might get sick too. I recommend regular water changes, if you have put in some shipment water starting with about 50% and then 10%-25% weekly to lower the amount of possible bacteria.

I see in your first post water is about 77-78F, D. dario likes fluctuating temperatures a lot and in some articles it is even stated that temp. fluctuation is necessary to keep the fish healthy. I keep them in an unheated tank, I presume you have a heather so you could heat the tank to about 75F while the lights are on, and then turn off the heater when lights are out. A temp. drop to about 60F is absolutely no problem for them, but I think room temp. will pevent such a big drop.
If you're planning on tank mates, they too should be able to handle temp. fluctuations but dario habitat species like Puntius gelius, Puntius conchonius, Danio rerio, Hara jerdoni are species that will do fine under these circumstances. Non biotope fish like Rhinogobius duospilus, Tanichthys albonubes, Celestichthys margaritatus are also good tankmates.
I hope that things will turn for the better for you (and your fish), this isn't a pleasant way to start a hobby.

regards
René


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Well it is what it is. I will say this however, Pedro is doing and did do the right thing by me. This thread is by no means an attack or a defamation of character of Invertz Factory. Things happen to the best of us and I now understand that this was simply an unfortunate experience.

Pedro is honorable and he went above and beyond to make things right. When I received the package I soon realized that it wasn't what I ordered and he did the right thing after corresponding with me via email. After sharing with him what had happened to the fish I was sent, he immediately extended his hand to resolve the issue.

This thread started out innocently enough, with my apparent excitement at the anticipation of receiving my fish and somehow evolved through the transition of events. I, in no way, meant any harm to Invertz Factory by posting the photos of the fish I received. I am appreciative that they expeditiously handled the issue in a manner that was satisfactory to all parties involved.

In the future, will I order from Invertz Factory again?... Absolutely.

Did I enjoy my correspondence with Pedro?...I certainly did.

All of that being said I deplore you not to take my experience as the status quo of Invertz Factory. As a matter of fact I have some Rasbora Espei soon to arrive from Invertz so as I stated previously, I will definitely and did deal with them again. roud:

Thank you Pedro for all of your help and understanding,
Dan


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## niko (Mar 8, 2006)

Asgard said:


> ...I would send them (Invertz Factory ) an email with the pictures of the received fish, including the links to the url's of the experiences of the sickness (white fish) and ask either for a refund or a new shipment of (healthy fish). If they deny sending sick fish you could point out that the white one(s) at least look very malnourished and most certainly not healthy. Hopefully they'll understand and you'll receive the refund or new fish.
> ...


Since we deal with live animals here occasional problems are unevitable. A company can really stand apart from the others if it handles the problems right. 

What we really care about is the positive experience of bying fish online. That's the goal of our communication with you, our guarantee, our packaging. If you, the customer, feel that something is not right we want you to talk to us. Send pictures or just describe the problem... whatever you feel is helpful. We will not argue with you or even use wording that suggests we don't trust you. The few issues we've had since Invertz Factory started have always been resolved exactly like Dan's - turning a frustrating situation into a positive experience.

It takes a lot to run a business like that. If you've ever had a bad experience with an online vendor I assure you - they can but are not putting the extra effort. We are. It shows best when a problem is resolved in a truly positive way - not just a refund, but also a great experience dealing with us.

--Nikolay


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## Asgard (Feb 8, 2008)

niko said:


> Since we deal with live animals here occasional problems are unevitable. A company can really stand apart from the others if it handles the problems right.


Unfortunately not all companies think that way, glad you do. 



niko said:


> What we really care about is the positive experience of bying fish online. That's the goal of our communication with you, our guarantee, our packaging. If you, the customer, feel that something is not right we want you to talk to us. Send pictures or just describe the problem... whatever you feel is helpful. We will not argue with you or even use wording that suggests we don't trust you. The few issues we've had since Invertz Factory started have always been resolved exactly like Dan's - turning a frustrating situation into a positive experience.


 and when exactly will you start your European business :icon_mrgr



niko said:


> It takes a lot to run a business like that. If you've ever had a bad experience with an online vendor I assure you - they can but are not putting the extra effort. We are. It shows best when a problem is resolved in a truly positive way - not just a refund, but also a great experience dealing with us.
> 
> --Nikolay


I have no experiences with online-vendors, just with LFS's, some good, some bad. Not every vendor looks at things the way you do.

@Dantra, glad that the matter seems resolved in a good way, looks like you bought your fish at the right place.
Leaves me wondering:... will I see some more dario's in your tank :icon_ques


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## ecotanker (Jul 11, 2009)

Thanks for this thread!

I had some dario dario that had a faded coloration which I believe to be female. But now I know that it may just be a male, with dropsy since the fish has since died from it.

I plan to get some more and put them in a tank with some small surface dwellers.

Dan,

the blackworm thread is on the aquatic plant central forum here http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/63752-blackworms-substrate-2.html.

This is how I keep my black worm/daphnia/cyclop/shrimp culture. In case you are looking for blackworm in NY, you can get them at Petland Discount.

Cheers.

Max


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Thank you Max, however I since started a blackworm culture that I ordered from Aquatic Foods. The fish go absolutely nuts when I feed it to them. 

As a result of feeding my rams the live blackworms as well as a home recipe I came up with for them they spawn all the time, so much so I gave some of the adults away as a RAOK and I gave all of the fry away because I just don't have the space. The first few times they spawned was awash but they certainly got the hang of it.

Max perhaps if your interested, once you get your tank settled, you may be interested in some fry, maybe a dozen? :biggrin:

Dan


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## ecotanker (Jul 11, 2009)

Thanks Dan for the offer on the rams! But since I don't have a lot of room, I am only keeping nano fishes. 

How long have your black worm culture been going? 

I saw that company before and thought about getting their worms, but didn't want to spend too much when I could get some locally. But they may be worth it for breeding dario darios. I just need to get my hand on some females.


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## Super Noob (Sep 7, 2007)

I too bought several Dario Darios at a LFS and have been experiencing deaths. It has happened over a 3-4 week period. I think there are a few options of what is going on with these guys. 

1) they came in sick, and later stages of the illness only show weeks later
2) they get sick from the stress of relocation, and eventually the illness kills them
3) they are wild caught fish that manage the infection, but the stress from transport causes the infection to take over (a little different than #1)
4) They are sensitive and require perfect water conditions to remain healthy


I'm not sure what to think but many people have this problem when buying them or switching the tanks they are in. I bought several thinking they were females, but now I realize they were probably ill to start with. The place I got them from is well known for having a top notch quarantine facility right next to the airport so I am reluctant to put any blame on them. They also have them in fully planted tanks.

I bought 8, I think I'm down to 5 that are alive. I relocated 3 that are faded to a quarantine tank that is getting Epsom salt and Maracyn II. One already has dropsy so he may be too far gone, but maybe I will be lucky and get to the other ones early enough. I am too stubborn to not get more, even if these die. But if and when I do, they will be getting the epsom salt and antibiotic treatment before going into a permanent tank. That may help me determine whether it is something caused at home, or something they brought with them. 

If anyone has some good pointers on curing Dropsy (or what causes it), I'm all ears. I have found several sites and threads about dropsy with this specific fish so it is very common.


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## bgssamson (Mar 16, 2004)

Anyone here in the US successfully breed Dario Dario's? I am starting the process by having live daphnia moina and pullex as their primary source if live food and rcs. Any point and suggestion is greatly appreciated. 

-Brian


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