# Low PH and slower cycle?



## Memphis118 (Aug 29, 2017)

Hello all,

Bare with me, I am new to all this and any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Tank has been up for 3 weeks, with the following reading:

PH: 6.1-6.2
Ammonia: 1ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 2ppm
KH: 0
GH: 4
Temp: 75-76 degrees

It has a decent amount of christmas moss, and using SL-Aqua Soil. 

My question is, I have added Dr Tims One and Only in hopes to speed up the cycling process, but noticed it's still taking a while.

I read that a low PH like mine, can slow down the cycling process a lot. Is this true? Since the tank has been up for 3 weeks, shouldn't I be seeing SOME nitrite? 

I've been dosing AquaVitro Seed every day to help supplement the bacteria.

This tank will eventually be a shrimp tank, which is why the PH is so low.


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Yes; the low pH has stalled the BB development. The conversion of the ammonia and nitrite by the bacteria naturally produces an acid that will lower the water pH. The way to get the cycling going again is to simply do a 20-25% water change. This will increase the pH and usually gets the cycling process going again. You can also add 1 teaspoon of baking soda for every 5 gallons to get the pH into the 7 area. Test it daily to be sure it doesn't drop so much again.


----------



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Assuming your tap water isn't too acidic (is tap water ever acidic?) Id stick with just the water changes every couple days, no need to tire out your substrate with extra KH

Cycling is fastest at 86 degrees and 7.6 ph


----------



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Editops delete please


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gets tricky..As to my understanding th ammonia-nitrite bact .are more prone to slowing down and stopping at low pH
The fact you have some Nitrate "may" mean the nitrite-nitrate bact. are less affected..though there are poss. other sources..
any nitrite will be converted to nitrate.



> This brings us back to pH. If the pH drops below 6 in a given system, the Nitrosomonas bacterium will not adequately process the ammonia in the water. If the pH eventually gets low enough, the nitrogen cycle will cease to function all together. If the pH levels rise above 9, as mentioned earlier, very high concentrations of toxic ammonia (NH3) are present.


----------



## zenster (Jan 27, 2017)

I have a fully cycled 7 gallon tank about 4 months old using New Amazonia soil that is buffering the pH at 5.20. I'm also cycling (starting its 6 week) a 17 gallon tank using the same substrate and the pH is around 4.75 while the ammonia is at 0.25 ppm. The moss and PRL's in the fully cycled 7 gallon are both thriving. I just let mother nature take her course instead of adding anything to help her out. Your tank will eventually cycle. Just be patient.


----------



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

zenster said:


> I have a fully cycled 7 gallon tank about 4 months old using New Amazonia soil that is buffering the pH at 5.20. I'm also cycling (starting its 6 week) a 17 gallon tank using the same substrate and the pH is around 4.75 while the ammonia is at 0.25 ppm. The moss and PRL's in the fully cycled 7 gallon are both thriving. I just let mother nature take her course instead of adding anything to help her out. Your tank will eventually cycle. Just be patient.


You must have very soft tap water for the pH to stay that low.
Caution however, at that pH you can't convert ammonia to nitrite, your pH has Ammonia in the ammonium form which is not very toxic, however should your pH climb rapidly for some reason you'll have some dead shrimp


----------



## Memphis118 (Aug 29, 2017)

Chlorophile said:


> Assuming your tap water isn't too acidic (is tap water ever acidic?) Id stick with just the water changes every couple days, no need to tire out your substrate with extra KH
> 
> Cycling is fastest at 86 degrees and 7.6 ph


Correct me if I am wrong, but if I use tap water, it will essentially raise my PH, and wouldnt that put a strain on the soil to bring it back down?

Bump:


Chlorophile said:


> You must have very soft tap water for the pH to stay that low.
> Caution however, at that pH you can't convert ammonia to nitrite, your pH has Ammonia in the ammonium form which is not very toxic, however should your pH climb rapidly for some reason you'll have some dead shrimp


Currently i use RODI water and mix it with SS+ to get a Gh of 4 with TDS 130. 

My PH is stable at 6.2


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Memphis118 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but if I use tap water, it will essentially raise my PH, and wouldnt that put a strain on the soil to bring it back down?
> 
> Bump:
> 
> ...


Yes, adding KH does reduce the lifespan of your substrate, BUT you need to do so in order to cycle. Once cycled, you want to avoid adding any additional KH.

Since you use RO, baking soda will be your best bet. You need to get your pH to at least above 6.5 though I would highly recommend mid-7's just while cycling.

Another option is if you have someone with a healthy, cycled tank, you can borrowed some media from them to put in your filter which will pretty much finish your cycle.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Memphis118 (Aug 29, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Yes, adding KH does reduce the lifespan of your substrate, BUT you need to do so in order to cycle. Once cycled, you want to avoid adding any additional KH.
> 
> Since you use RO, baking soda will be your best bet. You need to get your pH to at least above 6.5 though I would highly recommend mid-7's just while cycling.
> 
> ...


I might be able to pull a decent amount of ceramic rings from another tank. Hopefully that will jump start it


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Memphis118 said:


> I might be able to pull a decent amount of ceramic rings from another tank. Hopefully that will jump start it


Oh yeah, that would work. You can also seed some sponges in an existing tank and then move it over 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Memphis118 (Aug 29, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Oh yeah, that would work. You can also seed some sponges in an existing tank and then move it over
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I'll see what I can pull and replace. Hopefully it doesn't cause my any issues


----------



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Memphis118 said:


> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> > Assuming your tap water isn't too acidic (is tap water ever acidic?) Id stick with just the water changes every couple days, no need to tire out your substrate with extra KH
> ...


Yes and yes. If you're using RO then tap or calcium carbonate baking soda will both reduce the acid buffering capacity of the soil.
If you are trying to cycle the tank but want a very acid pH in the long run I'd just aim for mid to upper 6's on pH and crank the temps.
Low sixed and anything in the fives is too acidic for most nitrifying bacteria


----------



## Memphis118 (Aug 29, 2017)

Chlorophile said:


> Yes and yes. If you're using RO then tap or calcium carbonate baking soda will both reduce the acid buffering capacity of the soil.
> If you are trying to cycle the tank but want a very acid pH in the long run I'd just aim for mid to upper 6's on pH and crank the temps.
> Low sixed and anything in the fives is too acidic for most nitrifying bacteria


Essentially I can do what was suggested above to help speed things along, without adding baking soda, etc etc... and just seed it with filter media from another tank.. and should be good right?


----------



## Memphis118 (Aug 29, 2017)

Regarding the seeding, I briefly read that if the tank I grab the media from has a higher PH (maybe 7 or 7.5) and drop it into my tank which is 6.2, would the bacteria end up dying? Or would it be safe?

Half the forums I've read said it will be fine, while the other half said their bacteria died when they did it. 

My own thought behind this would be.... it should be fine? If the main tank decided to drop their PH down in a day to 6.2.... it wouldn't mean that cycle would start over, so why would it die off if transferred, right?


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

It doesn't matter how you get your BB (transferred culture or fishless cylcling) if pH is below 6. It doesn't die there, it just stops doing anything. Ideal is 7.0-8.0. Same for temp. Ideal is 85F to 95F . Outside these windows you have to expect slow (maybe months) cycling. So, it's all about patience. You're doing fishless cycling because you want fast, like all of us. You don't get fast outside of those ranges.

A couple of weeks buffering it (with bicarbonate) to the high-speed range of 7-8 isn't going to destroy your substrate. You can bring pH down once cycled. Water changes work because the water is buffered with bicarbonates. Besides, on a long term basis when you are keeping pH in the 6's, you will be replenishing the BB to sustain the colony at the low pH you will be running. It's not a matter of training your BB to work at low pH. It's a matter of how efficient they are at different pH levels.

Also, the final form of BB in the cycling process need oxygen. You can further speed the process by maximizing rippling of the surface to maximize gas exchange.


----------



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Memphis118 said:


> Regarding the seeding, I briefly read that if the tank I grab the media from has a higher PH (maybe 7 or 7.5) and drop it into my tank which is 6.2, would the bacteria end up dying? Or would it be safe?
> 
> Half the forums I've read said it will be fine, while the other half said their bacteria died when they did it.
> 
> My own thought behind this would be.... it should be fine? If the main tank decided to drop their PH down in a day to 6.2.... it wouldn't mean that cycle would start over, so why would it die off if transferred, right?


It's not impossible to cycle with a low pH, most people with aquasoil have the issues you're describing but the manufacturer recommends frequent water changes and this fixes the low pH issue.
However you choose to proceed just keep in mind the water changes will also help keep algae at bay during the cycling phase.


----------



## zenster (Jan 27, 2017)

Chlorophile said:


> You must have very soft tap water for the pH to stay that low.
> Caution however, at that pH you can't convert ammonia to nitrite, your pH has Ammonia in the ammonium form which is not very toxic, however should your pH climb rapidly for some reason you'll have some dead shrimp


My tap water has a pH of 7.28 and the RODI water that I'm using has a pH below 6. Since my API ammonia kit measures zero PPM NH3/NH4+ I'm wondering where all that NH4+ is disappearing to. My mosses?


----------



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

zenster said:


> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> > You must have very soft tap water for the pH to stay that low.
> ...


How are you getting your reading of 4.75 and 5.20 pH? You're nitrifying somewhere some how, would need more info on the age tank and frequency of water changes


----------



## zenster (Jan 27, 2017)

Chlorophile said:


> How are you getting your reading of 4.75 and 5.20 pH? You're nitrifying somewhere some how, would need more info on the age tank and frequency of water changes


With a pH meter calibrated with pH 4.0 and 7.0 solution. Age of tanks is 4 months (pH 5.20) and 6 weeks (pH 4.75). Frequency of water changes is once per week. Didn't know nitrifying bacteria could function at super low pH levels. This is why I'm assuming all the NH3 is converted to ammonium and absorbed by all the mosses inside the tanks. Read somewhere that the ideal pH for mosses is between 5.0 and 5.5 and that ammonium is a great food source.


----------



## Memphis118 (Aug 29, 2017)

Thanks for all the help.

I ended up taking about .5 to .75 lbs of ceramic rings from my friends 800 gallon tank, which has been set up for 8 years, and placed it into my Eheim filter. Hopefully this will be enough to feed my tank, giving that its a good amount of rings and been pretty much in a cycled tank for over 8 years


----------



## Memphis118 (Aug 29, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Oh yeah, that would work. You can also seed some sponges in an existing tank and then move it over
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Once the tank is seeded, how long would it normally take to start seeing progress?


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Memphis118 said:


> Once the tank is seeded, how long would it normally take to start seeing progress?


What I've done in the past is put sponges or ceramic rings in an existing canister filter for a month, move into the filter on the new tank, and then start feeding it ammonia. I did that for a little less than a week last time, and that was all it took to build up enough bacteria.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dragonxflare (Jul 1, 2014)

I am also around the 3-4th week of my cycle with lower PH. I believe you should be fine, just give it time


----------

