# Complexity Journal: 2.5g nano / Torn down for now.



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I think it just needs to be organized up a bit and it will look great.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I don't think it looks "shameful". Its not too bad except for the algae issues.. like James said a little organizing will help out a good bit. The gentle slope in the middle is cool, maybe add more substrate to the back or slope it a little back to front to give a little depth. I'm far from being decent at "aquascaping" myself though but there are some really awesome 2.5g layouts posted here if you do a little searching. 
Thats a good bit of light over 2.5g without ferts or co2... I think thats the reason I'm able to keep my 2.5g algae free (only 8W flourescent).


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks! You are both very nice.

I'm going to be ripping the whole thing apart since I finally got the onyx sand that I wanted to use in the beginning.

All of the Vals have to go so I can use Excel. I intend to begin ferts once I've redesigned it all so, hopefully, I can find a balance between the lights, co2 (via excel) and ferts.

I've seen some really nice looking nanos, but I have a hard time figuring out how they did it. Give me something technical, and I can probably do okay with it. Give me something that requires design work, and I'm completely lost.

Maybe I'll play with some ideas on my computer before I do anything for real. Once I rip it all up, I will need to get it put back together with the new design pretty quickly since it already has fish.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

I think it looks great - algae. You can fix that no problem. Keep your chin up, looks great!


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Complexity said:


> Thanks! You are both very nice.
> 
> I'm going to be ripping the whole thing apart since I finally got the onyx sand that I wanted to use in the beginning.
> 
> ...


That is not too bad. I think that the 27 watt lighting without c02 may be the cause of a lot of that algae. If that is green thread algae you could throw in a florida flag fish, black molly, or even florida flag fish and the algae will be toast. You can also use H202 treatment to attack it. Using a floating plant like cardamine lyrata may well help with the issue long term. But these are all only band aid solutions that do not address the cause. 

I don't know if you have seen Tom Barr's low tech suggestion, but it may be worth exploring. 
http://www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html

I set up a 5 gallon using this method and dose excel daily. With every water change, I dose a dash of nitrates, phosphates, Seachem Equilibrium, and Yamato Green for trace elements. The Amano Shrimp have double in size and are almost as big now as the 2 Dwarf Aquatic frogs, and the oto is still alive and kicking. The plants that appear to be doing really well in this tank are the apongenton bulbs, cardamine lyrata, ambulia, hygrophilia polysperma, and anubias nana and coffefilia.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I had full intentions of using Tom's low tech fert idea, but got stuck when I found out I couldn't use excel with the vals. Thus, the beginning of the imbalance, causing the algae. I'm okay with that.

I still have to rip it all out. I never intended on that being the substrate. I want to switch it to the onxy sand. So by the time I change the substrate and remove all the vals, It'll be pretty much starting all over again. And I'm okay with that, as well. In fact, that was always the plan.

I just thought I'd start a journal for the little tank, beginning with its humble beginnings. I've been playing around with some design ideas using the computer so I might have something I could try tomorrow or maybe Friday (my Thursdays can get busy).

I'm hoping I can physically remove a lot of the algae, and for the vals, I'll put them in my 20L with my amano shrimp to clean off. The other plants I can try to kill it out by getting things properly balanced, mechanical removal and excel.


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## Tamelesstgr (Jan 11, 2008)

Yeah i would say that's an algae problem. I get a little bit of brown algae every 10 days or so in both my 6 and 10 gallon tanks. Mostly just on the glass, very little on the plants.

The thing I like about my Eclipse is that the substrate ferts seem to be supporting the plants enough for my taste. I have no ambition to do CO2.

I'm still learning the correct plants with the amount of light I have to work with. Don't feel bad, we all learn from doing things the wrong way first. Well, I know I do. I too am trying to figure out what I like and grows well before setting up my 55 I have been piecing together.

Good Luck!
Ken


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks, Ken! I'm glad to know I'm not the only one piecing together a larger tank while still trying to learn the plants and all.

I pulled out the largest val, cleaned it up, and stuck it in my 75. I'm not using my TEK lights on it yet so I don't think the hair algae can survive there. If it does, there's always my amano shrimp.

I'm thinking of doing some kind of little scene with this tank just to play around. Maybe a winding pathway with small river rocks in the middle with some hills and valleys. My craziest thought at the moment is to consider using java moss as a lawn. It's no different than a moss wall, only on the bottom. The tiny leaves is what I'm thinking of using it for.

Just ideas for now.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

Regarding your vals and excel, I started overdosing my tank with excel to get rid of some nasty hair algae, and while I lost quite a lot of val leaves, I'd say that 75% of the leaves were fine (I have about 20 val rosettes in my tank). Now that I'm dosing normally with the excel, the plants are fine and growing well. I think they might just need to build up a tolerance, and I think some varieties might be more sensitive than others (mine are corkscrew).

Can I make some suggestions? 
1. I'd veer away from a java moss lawn. Something like riccia would look much prettier. For a lawn, you probably wouldnt want to use the more expensive mosses (xmas, flame) either. Were you planning on using screens or typing the moss to slate or rocks to create the lawn? Java just always looks messy to me.
2. I think the little "scenic" scape might be really nice here. Its small enough that you can make a tiny white sand river, rock mountains, sticks for trees, what have you, as long as you're comfortable working on such a minute scale. And its so small with little investment in raw materials, you can just turn it upside down, shake, and start all over if you want to.  
3. IMHO, small leaved-plants always look best in nano tanks. Large-leafed plants will make the tank look cramped and take away from the "hills and valleys" scene you described. 

I think this little tank has a lot of potential.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks for the help, Frosty! I need to update this journal as I have already re-scaped the tank. I did many of the things you suggested!

I have some pictures from when I first re-scaped it (I think) so I'll try to get some of what it looks like now and post them together. I'm happy with some of it, but not all of it. It has been a good learning experience, though. I'm considering tearing it down and re-scaping it, fixing a few basics that I wish I had done the first time around.

I'll try to get the pictures posted either tonight or tomorrow sometime, but no promises.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

Definitely post, so that we can learn from your successes and failures.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Unfortunately, it appears I didn't take any pictures right after the new design. I've been busy again the last few days so I had to put them on the back burner, but I'll try to get some pics tomorrow.

I'd like to get some critique on how to improve the design since I'm thinking of tearing it apart and trying again to fix the things I already know can be improved. It would be nice to get some other ideas before I do that.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

*First Rescape!*

I finally took some pictures of my first rescaped 2.5g tank. I'm not completely happy with it, but I like it better than my first attempt.

I need to anchor down the driftwood because it constantly falls down every time I change the water. This has completely destroyed the mounded sand around it. It's also made a mess of the little java fern pieces I had around it. When I first planted this, the java fern created a "cliff" type of sloping around the driftwood which I really liked, but that's completely gone thanks to the driftwood falling down so much.

The biggest disappointment for me is that my "big idea" of making a pathway meander in the middle did not turn out at all the way I had hoped. You really can't even see it without looking almost straight down. It's also very hard to keep clean. The sand covers it very quickly with every water change no matter how careful I try to be.

Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with how well the plants are doing, especially since I don't dose this tank. I've had some problems with algae, but I'm managed to keep it from completely taking over.

I like that the tank has some color, thanks to the crypt wendtii 'bronze'. I took that from my 20L, and that stuff just grows like a weed. The color works nicely with the driftwood. I also like having a variety of plants considering how small the tank is.

There's some foxtail in the back that I originally tried to cover the filter intake, but it's not growing very well. It probably would like some CO2/Excel and ferts!

*SPECS:*

*Substrate:* Seachem Onyx Sand
*Light:* 27watt full spectrum florescent desk light (Superior 27-Watt 10,000-Hour Bulb Black Desk Lamp)
*Light Duration:* 12 hours, 9am - 9pm, I move the light closer and farther from the top of the tank as dictated by the plants and algae.
*PLANTS:*

*Java Fern (Microsorum pteropus)* - Tiny pieces on very small wood in the back. You really can't see them.

*Silvermist Foxtail (Mayaca fluviatilis)* (I think that's the right plant ID) - I intended for it to hide the filter intake, but it's not doing well. I'm sure it needs CO2/Excel and ferts which I'm not dosing.

*Crypt (Cryptocoryne wendtii 'bronze')* - Taken from my 20Long. That stuff grows like a weed! I like how the color compliments the color of the driftwood.

*Pygmy Chain Sword (Echinodorus tenellus)* - This is growing much taller than I ever expected! I had some in my 20long tank that was not doing well so I moved it to this tank. Plus, I bought a couple more to make sure I had some healthy ones. I guess it's they're growing so large because of the bright light?

*Riccia (Riccia fluitans)* - I ended up with some riccia when I saw it in a bag at a LFS. I asked what it was, and they told me it was "another java moss". No kidding! Well, I knew it wasn't java moss, but I thought it might have been one of the other mosses based on their "name". Little did I know until I got it home that it was riccia! So I thought I'd try it in this little tank. It's growing very well! Much better than I expected! Now I need to trim it, but I'm afraid of the mess the trimmings will make in the tank. Otherwise, I really like it. Very nice bright green color.

*Java Moss (Vesicularia dubyana)* - Tied onto the driftwood to add some depth (a 3D effect) and to decorate the driftwood a little. I just recently trimmed it. It was much longer/larger than what you see now! I do have problems with algae getting mixed in since it's the closest to the light. I tried squirting in some Excel, but it not only killed out the algae, but it hurt some of the java moss, as well. I've learned to move the light further away if the algae becomes a problem. I'm thinking of adding some RCS to this tank which may help.
*FISH:*

*Guppy/Endler Fry* - This is what started the whole tank. I didn't know what to do with the fry that got caught in my canister filter so I created a mini tank for my mini fish (fry). As they grow out, I'm separating the males and females in hopes of not having this problem forever!

*Otto (Otocinclus affinis)* - One lone otto. I know they prefer to be in groups, but I needed him to help out with an algae problem. I have more in my 20long tank. If I can ever find a true SAE, I'll switch them out as it's my understanding that a SAE is okay by itself. The otto wasn't too happy when I first put him there, but he's adjusted well since.
Okay, now for the pictures! Please give me any critique, good and bad. I plan to rescape this tank again to correct a few problems, and it would be great to have added ideas when I do it. So I'm very open to ideas and suggestions on how to make it better!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

this looks nice! consider me subscribed


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, that is a NICE nano. it could be the nicest 2.5 nano ive seen, and you get extra points for originality, finally somebody who made a nice 2.5 without using iwagumi style.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks, CL and marko! 

Marko, I'm in agreement with you. I'm not crazy over the iwagumi style tanks. I wanted this tank to be a true miniature. I didn't quite achieve the goal I had in mind, mainly because the chain swords have grown too large, but it's much better than my first (lack of) attempt.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to make it better? Since I have to tear it apart to anchor the driftwood down, I'd love to incorporate any ideas to improve things while I'm at it.

I'm thinking I need to raise the rock pathway, but then I'm not sure how I could keep the dip in the middle. The pathway is glued together so it's one piece that I can move. I'm thinking that it might be better if I tried to use it as a terrace instead of a path. I'd have to glue more rocks to the front side of it which would then work as a retaining wall of sorts.

I'm also wondering if I should consider a full ground cover to help keep the sand in place so the hills and valleys won't get ruined. I could harvest the riccia to make it a full ground cover. I think it would be best to plant it on rocks or something I can pull out for trimming. Or maybe there's something else that would be better? I want the scale of the leaves to remain very tiny to continue the "miniature" theme.

Anyone with any ideas, suggestions or comments?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

No suggestions? Anyone?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

i would say hc would be your best bet on this one, it has small leaves and remains low and carpets


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Is HC and Dwarf Baby Tears the same plant? If so, I have some! It's half dead because I bought it on a whim, but didn't find a place to put it. So it's been sitting in my plant Q/T tank.

If what I have is HC, I would like to give it a try.

How hard is it to maintain? Does it need regular trimming?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hc is dwarf baby tears, it needs no trimming and i have grown it great in just plain sand with diy co2 and only dosing iron and potassium every once in a while, good luck


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Great! Thanks for the idea. I think I'll give it a try. I didn't know I could grow riccia in that tank, but since I can, I bet I can grow HC, too.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

oh i just thought of something while i was trimming my crypts:
you may want to put some moss directly behind the riccia on the substrate between the chain swords. it will carpet there. and form a nice dark green coushon which will be a nice contrast to the lighter green of the chain sword. just dumps some loose strands there and they will do the work by themselves, no need to make a carpet with mess or attach to rocks. 

if you are wondering how my crypts gave me that idea, i have moss growing under my crypts and it looks really cool. the reason im saying you dont need to do anything but put the moss there, is because in my tank i never did anything for the moss there, it just drifted down as i trimmed it from the wood above and i didnt manage to collect all of it.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Interesting idea, Marko. I probably can't implement your idea exactly as described since I'm rather anal about vacuuming my tanks, but I like the idea of the two colors of green contrasting each other. Maybe I can rework things to use HC and riccia as a contrast. They're not as good a contrast as java moss, but they'd both be anchored down well enough to hold the sand in place while still adding contrasting greens and leaf shapes.

One thing I did that I think may help me keep plants from growing into each other was to create actual dividers in which to plant the swords. I actually created "bowls" in the swirling shape in which I would allow them to grow. It's as if they're in containers without holes. The whole design is created with these bowls of sorts. That way, when I rescape this tank, I can literally lift out various parts without having to "dig up" any of the plants. Well, except the crypt in the far right corner, but that's a plant that can take abuse without showing it.

You're all giving me some ideas for my next scape. Thanks!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

HC or riccia may find that area of too low light, otherwise it would work great.


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## deMastro (Mar 18, 2008)

Nice job!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Marseila minuta is another you might try in place of the riccia- dwarf clover, and I think it would be the right scale?

If you Echinodorus keeps getting taller, you may have E. angustifolius, not E. tenellus (these related plants apparently all are being given new scientific names b/c they're all confused LOL)

It looks really, really nice Vickie- you'd never know it was a nano, even, you've done such a good job with scale roud:


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I had completely forgotten about _Marsilea minuta_! I think it would be easier to grow than HC.

Does anyone know which has a darker green appearance? HC or _Marsilea minuta_?

I also think you're right about the strapy plant being _Echinodorus angustifolius_ instead of _E. tenellus_. This also solves a mystery I was having. Remember I mentioned that I pulled the _E. tenellus_ from my 20Long to plant it in this 2.5g? But then I bought some more to help fill it in. Well, the older _Echinodorus_ hasn't grown anywhere near as tall as the newer ones. I thought maybe my old ones were stunted since it wasn't doing well in my 20L. If they are two different species of _Echinodorus_, that would explain things. Looking at the two plants, I am leaning towards the thought that they are indeed two different species.

I'm really glad to know this before I do my rescape. I think I'll pull it out of the 2.5 to use it elsewhere. It's a great plant! But the scale is wrong for what I'm trying to do with the 2.5.

Thanks also for everyone's kind remarks on the tank! This is what I would consider my first _real_ planted tank, meaning that I actually had a design on paper that I followed rather than just sticking the plants in willy-nilly.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

then its your first aquascape, not your first planted tank


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> then its your first aquascape, not your first planted tank


Exactly! Thank you for putting the right word to what I was trying to say.


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

very nice nano ...where did you get the elephants that are beside it those are bad a**


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks! For both compliments! 

I think I found them at a local store called Kirkland's, but I'm not positive. I just happened upon them and really liked them. Elephants have a special meaning for me.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hey! got any updates?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

No updates yet. I'm working on my 75g right now so the 2.5g will have to wait. I have pulled out the fish since they were just guppy fry that was outgrowing the tank. I'm considering putting my pygmy rasboras in there, but I haven't decided yet. Or I may use it for RCS. For now, I have 5 amano shrimp in there since I'm getting hair algae.

I'll update my sig when I update the tank again. It will probably be a few weeks still, depending on the progress I make on my 75g setup.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just caught up with your journal here and I wanted to say it looks beautiful, you've really done an amazing job with the scale, it definitely looks much larger than it is! Well done!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thank you! The scale was my main goal. I want to redo the scape, but I'm focusing most of my attention to my 75g right now. So my 2.5g is getting filled with algae. All the fish are gone (fry grew up).

When I rescape it, I think I'd like to use it for RCS. I think they'd look great and continue the scale affect I'm after.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well i'd say your scale goal was accomplished then! I understand completely putting your energy into getting the 75g set up! But I think you're definitely correct that RCS would look really good with your scale, it would look like a tank full of lobsters if someone didn't know! :-D good luck with the 75, i'll be keeping an eye on both threads


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks, Karackle. I'm in a bit of a push because I'll be moving my tanks to my house in a month or so. So by the time I get my 75g all set up, it'll be time to move it. So while it may seem a waste of time to put so much work into my 75 just before moving it, I think the work will serve as a learning experience so I can a better job after its moved.

So for now, the poor 2.5g just keeps growing riccia like a mountain and is being overtaken by algae. I have ferts on the way for my 75, and I'm hoping I can use a little of them for this small tank. Mix that with excel, and maybe I can get the tank back on track. If I can get a handle on the algae, then I can do a rescape on it. I'd like to make my current "pathway" in the middle that can't be seen at all into a rock ledge, like a retainer wall. I think that would make for a really nice design, adding texture and depth. Then the RCS can take over!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I think it should definitely serve as a learning experience, and you can figure out what you did or didn't like the look of when you rescape it after the move 
Also, I think a rock ledge would look REALLY cool! What a neat idea!  I've been thinking about doing a little rock cave sort of buried in the substrate, a rock ledge could be really cool though too!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks about the ledge. I won't rescape this tank when I move (or I should say my move and rescaping of this tank don't affect each other). I'll do it whenever I get the time.

The rock ledge is just a progression from what I had already done. I couldn't keep the rocks to stay where I wanted them, so they are actually encased in a plastic mold I made. I used hot glue to hold the rocks in place.

So what I hope I can do is take the whole thing out and glue more rocks on the front side of it. Then rather than burying it in the substrate like a river, I'll use it like a retaining wall to create two depths of substrate which I hope will add to the illusion of scale.

I won't know if it'll work until I try it, but I have nothing to lose other than some time, a few rocks and burnt fingers from the hot glue! :icon_lol:


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

UPDATE:

I completely let this tank go which is not a good idea for such a small tank with no ferts, no CO2, no excel, but very bright lighting. Anyone want to guess what I'm growing now? :icon_lol:

Hair algae has completely taken over the entire tank. I saw it coming, but was so busy with my 75g that I didn't stop it. So it's taken over very badly.

I had already removed all the fish in the tank so I decided to try the H2O2 method of getting rid of the algae.

Yesterday, I did a 95% water change, removed the fine floss from the filter, and then added 5ml of H202. I let it sit with the filter running for 35 minutes. I've been keeping the lights off on that tank so when I took a look, sure enough, everything had bubbles on it. I then did a 50% water change and have kept the light off.

It hasn't been even 24 hours yet so it's hard to tell what's going to happen. Some of the algae looks like it's become floppy (laying down on the plants rather than sticking up), but there are other areas where it's still sticking up like before. So we'll see.

I took a few pictures of the algae yesterday before doing the treatment. I'll try to get them posted today, if I can.


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Vicki, I hope you'll get this, or another nano tank going after you're settled back in from the move. I really enjoyed this journal.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thank you! I probably will get the nano going again because I'm looking at getting some super-red RCS, and I don't have anyplace to put them!

Oh, the joys of MTS. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Complexity said:


> I'm looking at getting some super-red RCS, and I don't have anyplace to put them!


Uh-oh....is that me being a bad influence again?! :hihi: SORRY! :redface:

I can't wait to see you have a nano up and running again though, your previous one was gorgeous!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh, yes... it's definitely your fault, Karackle. And sorry just won't cut it. :angryfire

This is going to cost you.

Hmm... got any bamboo shrimp you'd like to give me? :tongue:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You might try spot-treating the algae with H2O2 that the tank dosing doesn't seem to be getting.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh, so sorry to not update the specifics of the tank.

It's completely empty! I started to work out a new scape, but got busy so I broke it down for the move.

I plan to get it back up soon; it just hasn't hit my priority list yet.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Complexity said:


> Oh, yes... it's definitely your fault, Karackle. And sorry just won't cut it. :angryfire
> 
> This is going to cost you.
> 
> Hmm... got any bamboo shrimp you'd like to give me? :tongue:


EEEP!!! Will I'm really really really sorry cut it? :redface:

Well I only have the one bamboo shrimp but if I see any on sale i can pick them up for you?  heehee


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Karackle said:


> EEEP!!! Will I'm really really really sorry cut it? :redface:


You forgot the "and I won't do it again, cross my heart!" part. :icon_lol:



> Well I only have the one bamboo shrimp but if I see any on sale i can pick them up for you?  heehee


Please don't pick them up. You might hurt them! Try a net instead. :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Complexity said:


> You forgot the "and I won't do it again, cross my heart!" part. :icon_lol:


I know! I'm so sorry! It was an accident....um....i meant I wouldn't get anything new that is expensive that you might want also? :tongue:



Complexity said:


> Please don't pick them up. You might hurt them! Try a net instead. :tongue:


HAHAHAHAHAHA Got a weird look from the boy from the outburst of laughter after reading that!  And yes....a net would be the wiser choice, you're right, silly me! :hihi:


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Okay, I guess you've suffered enough. Apology accepted. :tongue:

When I burst out laughing, my kids always want me to tell them why! "What so funny? Tell me! Why are you laughing?" Argh! Why aren't they that eager about chores or homework?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Complexity said:


> Okay, I guess you've suffered enough. Apology accepted. :tongue:


phew! Thanks! Glad to hear it!  :biggrin:



Complexity said:


> When I burst out laughing, my kids always want me to tell them why! "What so funny? Tell me! Why are you laughing?" Argh! Why aren't they that eager about chores or homework?


Hahahaha i bet! It is too bad they aren't that excited about the chores and homework though...sigh...


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## sketch804 (Mar 2, 2011)

HAHA i have that SAME EXACT light on my 10gal and i LOVE IT! works great! nice tank btw~!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks, Sketch! I never did set this tank back up again, mainly because it doesn't have a lid and I have cats at my house so it would basically turn into a water dish for them. But I have been wanting another nano so maybe I'll get a lid made for it and set it back up. I do miss this little tank. And I agree, the light is wonderful!


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