# Ich: Which a Treatment?



## TurtleShark (Feb 19, 2013)

In a little bit of a tangle there, hmm? I think I'd continue what you are doing and if you don't see any improvement in a week switch up your methods a little. 

Always make sure you quarantine all new fish and plants. It's always horrible when we have to try to treat large tanks for something like this.


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## imcmaster (Jan 30, 2015)

What would be the cost to buy a bigger QT tank (leave it BB, etc) say a 40L? You could cycle it quickly using the media from your 125? Do you have a canister to move to it? The planted 125 won't need the full filter w/o fish.
Just a thought. It would be great if you could save all your plants.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

imcmaster said:


> What would be the cost to buy a bigger QT tank (leave it BB, etc) say a 40L? You could cycle it quickly using the media from your 125? Do you have a canister to move to it? The planted 125 won't need the full filter w/o fish.
> Just a thought. It would be great if you could save all your plants.


You really don't need to cycle the tank. And if he goes with meds many will kill the bene bacteria anyway. Water changes do come to mind in right before the next dose though. And with ick the main tank needs to be empty for 2 weeks so the ick dies off since they really can't survive without a host. 
One other option is a diatom filter.


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## Stone454 (Jun 1, 2013)

I have always used Malachite green, i never noticed it staining the silicone, it warns it could though. works like a charm, but yeah prevention works far better qt all new fish and plants.


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## alcimedes (Dec 7, 2014)

same. i've done malachite green. the staining goes away with exposure to light, so it might stain your sump silicone but the tank silicone goes back to normal pretty quickly.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

I really like imcmaster's input about a 40b quarantine; however that is going to be my plan C. 

I'm going to look further into Malachite Green as my plan B.

Which product have you guys used in a planted tank successfully?


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## jeepguy (Jul 24, 2013)

Won't be cheap but paragaurd will do the trick. Cost me about $25 to treat a 65g. So, double it. Dose every morning until all signs of ich are gone, and then some. Plant, fish, snail, shrimp safe,


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

tylergvolk said:


> 125G Fully Planted With Denison Barbs & Bosemani's.
> 
> I've done a lot if research. Which treatment should I go with?
> 
> ...


Hi tylergvolk,

I have always used products that contain Malachite Green. 

Quick Cure by Aquarium Products


> Formalin and Malachite Green


Nox-Ich by Weco Aquatic (for 'old schoolers' like me)


> Active Ingredients: Sodium Chloride .50%, Malachite Green .50%


Typically I raise the tank temperature to 80 degrees; remove any carbon from filters (if being used), dose 1 drop per gallon (if tetras in tank 1 drop per 2 gallons / do not use on tanks with Mormyrids or Clown Loaches). Typically improvement is seen in 24-36 hours and no spots on fish after 4-5 days. Do water change after treating.

If you use Nox-Ich don't worry about the .50% salt; that small amount has never effected even my most sensitive plants.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

I don't think quick cure is manufactured anymore. I'm having a hard time finding it online. 

I did order some nox-ich as a plan b.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> Temperature: If I increase 86F then some plants melt.


I've treated Ich twice (two different tanks) with temperate (88-89F) and had no problems with any of the plants I have. Obviously yours may be different but what I had: 

- Jungle val
- Amazon sword
- crypt windtii (red and green)
- java fern 
- ludwiggia 
- hygrophila polysperma
- Rotala rotundifolia 
- Water wisteria
- Anubis Hastifolia 

None showed the slightest impact of the change from 78 -> 89F for two weeks. Ich cleaned up, fish were more active and no issues. It really made treating it a non-event, and did not recur.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

If the product has M. green it should work.
The combo of M. green and formalin work the best.
If you can't qt for over 2 weeks don't sweat it and just treat tank.
Kordon Rid Ich Plus (not the herbal crap) works as good as the quick cure.
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthirius
^ Know the enemy^


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Linwood said:


> I've treated Ich twice (two different tanks) with temperate (88-89F) and had no problems with any of the plants I have. Obviously yours may be different but what I had:
> 
> - Jungle val
> - Amazon sword
> ...


This makes me feel better. Our plants are similar! There's, hope!


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> This makes me feel better. Our plants are similar! There's, hope!


Incidentally, I used only heat, I did not include salt. I don't know if salt and heat interact with plants.

I increased the temperature over about 24 hours, by the way, once, and the other time over about 8 hours - primarily limited by the wattage of the heaters I had.


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## Gavin Citrus (Aug 2, 2014)

This Ich thing perplexes me. I've dealt with it a few times in my QT tank and what I find is that if you decrease stress in the fish it appears "gone" no matter what I do.

So then that leads me to wonder, if that's the case you can in theory treat with anything and it would work.

Again if you re-stress the fish I could see a problem.

However, maybe I'm not dealing with true Ich, I'm not sure my QT tank experience has been unique to put it lightly.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Gavin Citrus said:


> This Ich thing perplexes me. I've dealt with it a few times in my QT tank and what I find is that if you decrease stress in the fish it appears "gone" no matter what I do.
> 
> So then that leads me to wonder, if that's the case you can in theory treat with anything and it would work.
> 
> ...


As I understand it, ich cannot survive without a host; therefore, if it appears "gone" for long enough then it had been irradiated from the tank.

I've also heard that keeping the fish stress free will allow them to fight off the parasite. I stressed the fish during transfer and moved them to the main tank to quickly. Excited newbie mistake. I suppose we have all been there. I just hope this mistake won't result in dead fish.

The ich is barely visual today. Things seem to be improving. Temp is up to about 85-86F. It's funny, I've got 3 thermometers and another with my TDS meter and they all read different temps. Ridiculous.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> As I understand it, ich cannot survive without a host; therefore, if it appears "gone" for long enough then it had been irradiated from the tank.
> 
> I've also heard that keeping the fish stress free will allow them to fight off the parasite. I stressed the fish during transfer and moved them to the main tank to quickly. Excited newbie mistake. I suppose we have all been there. I just hope this mistake won't result in dead fish.
> 
> The ich is barely visual today. Things seem to be improving. Temp is up to about 85-86F. It's funny, I've got 3 thermometers and another with my TDS meter and they all read different temps. Ridiculous.


Everything I read echos that except for one continuing thread that ich can live in a fish's gills for some time, and not be visible on the surface. I have never gotten straight whether that is a temporary condition leading to visible ich later, or if it can last for a long time, and thus have ich in the tank but not visibly so.

And clearly one small white spot is enough to cause it to spread, so it could be visible-but-not-seen on new fish introduced. I am convinced that is what happened both times for me, who also hurried through a quarantine. Twice.

And of course any reuse of nets, hands (un-thoroughly-washed), etc. can spread between tanks. So for me, I've now got a much more serious quarantine set up, the tank can be emptied by a dedicated hose, not using the same siphons, I fill it without getting the hose in the tank, etc. Planning for about 6-8 weeks there, to avoid other parasites that show up slower. Hopefully it will solve the issues.

Temperature: I bought a very accurate meat thermometer (Thermopen), quite expensive but it is very accurate and NIST calibrated from the factory, and you can recalibrate it as well using melting ice and boiling water. Very expensive for aquarium use, but great for steaks, and I use it to check the temp displays on my heaters (I use Cobalt Neo-terms which are pretty good, but still 1-3 degrees off). 

I mention this because you really need to be ABOVE 86 degress in the WHOLE tank, especially the bottom, rocks, etc. where they could live and reproduce. If in doubt on the temperature, you probably need to go higher. No need for two weeks at a temperature 2 degrees too low and have to start over.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

So far so good. The ICH has disappeared.

2/22/15: Added 6 Bosemani Rainbows
2/24/15: Ick Present; Increasing Temp. 75-81F
2/24/15 Tank: Ammonia=0; Nitrite=0; Nitrate=30; pH=7.0; KH=4; GH=7; TDS=316 
2/25/15: Day 1 Treatment: Temp. 83F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack
2/26/15: Day 2 Treatment: Temp. 86F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack
2/27/15: Day 3 Treatment: Temp. 86F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Have you been vacuuming the sub and changing water?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

tylergvolk said:


> So far so good. The ICH has disappeared.
> 
> 2/22/15: Added 6 Bosemani Rainbows
> 2/24/15: Ick Present; Increasing Temp. 75-81F
> ...


Hi tylergvolk,

Glad to hear things are improving. I usually continue the treatment for 2 days after the spots have all disappeared; followed by a 33% water change.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Today, Ich showed up again. I did a 50% water change and there must have been a huge 02 flunctuation or something because the fish are struggling. One big Roseline was doing spins and died.

HELP!

The heat and Kordon ICH Attack isn't working because the ICH shows up in new spots days later. I think the Roselines death was due to another factor because the Roselines have never shown any signs of ICH only the Bosemani rainbows.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I wouldn't mix meds(heat and meds count IMO).
Both the heat and meds reduce O2 in the water.
Lower temp back to normal and use the Kordon.
I change water everyday when treating and replace meds as needed per volume.
If you didn't change any water while dosing 3 days in a row this could be a problem?
When you don't see the ich (on fish) is the only time you can kill it.
It falls off fish and ends up in substrate(why you should vac everyday) and multiplies by possibly the thousands!
The meds alone will kill the ich.
Read the link I posted earlier .
It is the most accurate info on ich IMO.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

I used Kordon Ich Attach. Did not bother to change my temp. I lost about half my fish during the battle (I do not blame this on the product - IMO if I had not treated my fish I would have lost all of them). Make sure to treat the tank for like a month to make sure that none of it comes back... It will take a few weeks for the spots to stop showing - that does not mean the fight is over. JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE SPOTS DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. Spots =/= the fish is affected. Fish can be sick with ich and not show any spots.

I think the general rule is that once you see no white spots continue treatment for 2 weeks. Then you should be all set.

Do some research on how ich works. It will reproduce in your substrate or something like that and keep coming back unless absolutely all of it has been killed off. It will take a lot longer than like 5 days to get rid of it for good.

Also +1 to coralbandit's post above - they are spot on.

Lesson learned: Quarantine your fish


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Are you using Kordon "Rid Ich Plus" or the herbal crap?
If you are using the herbal chuckit and get some real meds .
Most who think the herbal crap worked just don't understand the life cycle of ich well enough to know when it is gone or not and always say they got re infected when they never killed it to begin with!
You got to kill it or it will kill your fish.


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## Jalopy (Aug 11, 2013)

The herbal stuff is the only product that can be safely used with shrimps as is. I've used it before and while it's not the best my shrimps were fine and I saved some of my fish. It does work just not the most effective.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

I have done ample amounts of research on Ich. There is a tremendous amount of misinformation and contradictory information about eradicating Ich from an aquarium. It's very overwhelming.

I'm currently using Temp. 86F and Kordon Ick Attach the herbal stuff. It's day 5. I ordered another medication which should arrive in a few days. I'm going to use up the current meds and move onto the next.

I'm afraid to water change now because it appears to be very stressful on my already stressed out fish...


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

*Ich Update*

2/28/15: Day 4 Treatment: Temp. 86F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack
3/1/15: Day 5 Treatment Temp. 86F; 50% w/c; Roseline Died spinning; Ich is back
3/2/15: Day 6 Treatment Temp. 87F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack
3/3/15: Day 7 Treatment Temp. 87F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack; Ich Disappeared

Today is day 7 of my treatment of heat and Ich Attack. The ich has disappeared again but I'm not giving my hopes up. I know that just because I can't see it doesn't mean the Ich isnt there.

A couple days ago, I covered the tank in news papers to help reduce the stress on fish. Every time I walk by the fish swim vigorously and the tank is in a high traffic area of my house. 

Today was the last day of the Kordon Ich Attack treatment. The bottle is empty now. It did about 6-7 days worth of treatment in my 125g at 65ml dosed each day. I'm not sold on the product and probably will never use it again. I have another product arriving soon. If Ich returns I'll have to try that one.


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## Jalopy (Aug 11, 2013)

Do you have shrimp in your tank? If so, is the new product shrimp safe?


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Jalopy said:


> Do you have shrimp in your tank? If so, is the new product shrimp safe?


No shrimp and I'm not sure if it's shrimp safe.


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## CamoCop (Feb 18, 2015)

Same boat Tyler, I would not increase heat past 86f with any treatments. Kordon Ich Attack is the only natural option available locally to me. One and a half week of dosing so far with mild success but im told natural remedies take more time. Heat exceeding 86f created nothing but problems for me and salt is also not an option.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

CamoCop said:


> Same boat Tyler, I would not increase heat past 86f with any treatments. Kordon Ich Attack is the only natural option available locally to me. One and a half week of dosing so far with mild success but im told natural remedies take more time. Heat exceeding 86f created nothing but problems for me and salt is also not an option.


I've already took the temperature up to 89F. Hope nothing goes wrong...


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## Gavin Citrus (Aug 2, 2014)

Why do natural remedies take more time? My suspicion is it's because it takes the system longer to heal itself.

Not sure who does aquarium research but I'd like to see Kordon Ich Attack therapy vs No therapy in a controlled study.


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## alcimedes (Dec 7, 2014)

the herbal kordon stuff was only good at clearing up a bacteria bloom in my experience.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Got the temp up and holding at 89F


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## Jalopy (Aug 11, 2013)

What's the new product you're using and how are your fish doing?


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## Gavin Citrus (Aug 2, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> Got the temp up and holding at 89F



Based on the articles I've read this is going to be the most successful thing you can do. I believe that alone is going to work for you.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Jalopy said:


> What's the new product you're using and how are your fish doing?


My Nox-ICH came in the mail but I'm not going to use it yet. First im going to finish up this heat treatment. I used up the bottle if Kordon ICH Attack. That's all gone.

The fish are stressed but they are fine.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> The fish are stressed but they are fine.


Are they stressed or just hyper active? When I used heat, it was as though they were just all sped up - they ate more, swam more and faster. See if they are even more aggressive at eating; stressed fish are not, may not even eat. Mine seemed starving all the time.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

tylergvolk said:


> My Nox-ICH came in the mail but I'm not going to use it yet. First im going to finish up this heat treatment. I used up the bottle if Kordon ICH Attack. That's all gone.
> 
> The fish are stressed but they are fine.



Hi tylergvolk,

Sorry to hear you are still dealing with this outbreak. 

I am always very cautious about mixing medications and I don't mix medications. When changing from one med to another I like to 'remove' as much of the first med as possible. Since the fish are stressed I would probably do two (2) changes of 20%-25% water changes over the next two days before starting the Nox-Ich - being very careful to match the temperature of the 'fresh' water with the current tank temperature.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

alcimedes said:


> the herbal kordon stuff was only good at clearing up a bacteria bloom in my experience.


I've successfully treated three outbreaks (thank you, PetCo) with nothing else. It's not fast, but it works, given enough time. Could get expensive if you have a large tank, though.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Linwood said:


> Are they stressed or just hyper active? When I used heat, it was as though they were just all sped up - they ate more, swam more and faster. See if they are even more aggressive at eating; stressed fish are not, may not even eat. Mine seemed starving all the time.


Yes, you described my fish exactly. Maybe they aren't stressed but their metabolism is extremely high.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> Yes, you described my fish exactly. Maybe they aren't stressed but their metabolism is extremely high.


I think you'll find them happy at that temperature, and in two weeks all ich gone for good.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi tylergvolk,
> 
> Sorry to hear you are still dealing with this outbreak.
> 
> I am always very cautious about mixing medications and I don't mix medications. When changing from one med to another I like to 'remove' as much of the first med as possible. Since the fish are stressed I would probably do two (2) changes of 20%-25% water changes over the next two days before starting the Nox-Ich - being very careful to match the temperature of the 'fresh' water with the current tank temperature.


Understood, thanks for the advice! Take a look at my record:

2/22/15: Added 6 Bosemani Rainbows
2/24/15: Ick Present; Increasing Temp. 75-81F
2/24/15 Tank: Ammonia=0; Nitrite=0; Nitrate=30; pH=7.0; KH=4; GH=7; TDS=316 
2/25/15: Day 1 Treatment: Temp. 83F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack
2/26/15: Day 2 Treatment: Temp. 86F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack
2/27/15: Day 3 Treatment: Temp. 86F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack; Ich Disappeared
2/28/15: Day 4 Treatment: Temp. 86F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack
3/1/15: Day 5 Treatment Temp. 86F; 50% w/c; Roseline Died spinning; Ich is back
3/2/15: Day 6 Treatment Temp. 87F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack
3/3/15: Day 7 Treatment Temp. 87F; Dosed 65ml Ick Attack; Ich Disappeared
3/4/15: Day 8 Treatment Temp. 89F; No signs of Ich
3/5/15: Day 9 Treatment Temp. 89F; No signs of Ich

After tomorrow, I plan to drop the temp back down to about 86F. I'm wondering if it is too soon? Then start a series of small water changes over the next couple days and see how the fish react. Then I'll drop the temperature gradually back to normal. If ICH comes back, then I'll try Nox-ICH alone with no heat.

Think it's too soon to drop the temp?

Bump:


Linwood said:


> I think you'll find them happy at that temperature, and in two weeks all ich gone for good.


My little Cory Cats don't like it as they go up and down the aquarium, but I think your right the other fish are fine.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

tylergvolk said:


> After tomorrow, I plan to drop the temp back down to about 86F. Then start a series of small water changes over the next couple days and see how the fish react. Then I'll drop the temperature gradually back to normal. If ICH comes back, then I'll try Nox-ICH alone with no heat.


Up to you of course, but if you want to try heat, there is no purpose in doing it briefly, you need about 2 weeks at 88+ to be sure it is gone.


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Linwood said:


> Up to you of course, but if you want to try heat, there is no purpose in doing it briefly, you need about 2 weeks at 88+ to be sure it is gone.


The cold hard reality...


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

3/6/15: Day 10 Temp. 89F; No Ich
3/7/15: Day 11 Temp. 86; No Ich; 25% w/c; cleaned left 2217
3/8/15: Day 12 Temp. 86; No Ich; 25% w/c; cleaned right 2217
3/9/15: Day 13 Temp. 86; No Ich
3/10:15: End Heat Treatment 79F

Thanks everyone. So far do good. If ICH comes back I'll post here. I appreciate your help. Plants took a big hit though. Time to blast he co2.


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