# Is this algae and how do I get rid of it?



## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

So I just noticed this when I was doing my water change earlier today and I don't know what it is. It's black spots on my anubias and I have no clue what it is. I can rub it off, but I need to work at it with my fingernail to get it off the leaf.










Closer shot









I know I have diatoms, they just started to show up within the last week, but I'm not worried about that. It's the black spots mostly towards the tips of the leaves that I'm worried about... any clue what this is?

Changes made in the past couple of weeks:
1) Upped my light from 2x32W T8s to 3x32W T8s
2) Started adding pressurized CO2 at 1-2 bps

I have been EI dosing for a few weeks now too.

Can anyone help me figure out what type of algae this is and how to get rid of it?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Looks like brush algae.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

It does look like brush algae. I was hoping to never get this algae, but that's too late now

Now my next question... how do I get rid of it? I was reading online that one way is to spot treat it with Excel. I'm probably going to give that a try after work for sure.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

that will kill it but won't fix the root cause. happy plants usually means no algae. brush algae is usually related to too much light. i've also noted excess organics can worsen the problem.. reduce some light and trim as much out as possible


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

So apparently my work was closed today but no one wanted to inform any of us that work at that location... :icon_evil

But anyway, Blazingwolf, I will most definitely cut back my lights to 2 T8s because I wasn't getting any algae with them before. I will also spot treat with Excel to kill it off initially and go from there.

Now dumb question, what do you mean by excess organics?


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Excess organics = dirty water. Not really but kinda. Excess nutrients like nitrate. Brush algae also likes slow growing plants which is why you are seeing it on your anubias. If you don't knock it out fast it will cover everything in the tank.

Brush algae doesn't like CO2 so maybe bump your CO2 up a little. The Excel will work too but like HD Blazingwolf said, you can treat the symptom but you still need to find the cause. I notice some of my Java ferns were getting little tufts of beard algae in my shrimp tank (no CO2) and it went away when I move them to my main tank which has pressurized CO2.

What does your water change schedule look like?


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

I might then bump up my CO2 in the tank and see if that helps as well then. I want it gone asap so it doesn't cover my tank.

I change at least 50-75% water every Sunday. I did around 60% yesterday. I only go around and siphon up the substrate a little bit every other week, and by a little bit, I mean skimming the top and I don't want to go too deep as I have dirt under it.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

ACTUALLY.. bba LOVES C02.. it HATES oxygen.. the plants love the c02 and produce more oxygen


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

I did a little more digging on the web and yes it does like CO2. So what I'll probably do is cut back to CO2 a bit, turn down the lights until the BBA is gone, and spot treat the BBA with Excel everyday until it's gone. 

I'll keep this updated as well. First time battling BBA, wish me luck!


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

The main cause of bba is fluctuation or low levels of Co2. You are not going to help your battle with bba by turning down your co2.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

2 for adding more CO2, 1 for adding less CO2.... hmm.... not sure where to start then....

How would I know that I'm adding *enough* CO2? And don't give me "when the BBA goes away" response, not looking for a smart ass answer


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

When your drop checker is light green/yellowish green.

http://theshrimplab.com/store/?p=196


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

I have a drop checker, just don't have 4dkh solution. Is 30ppm too much if I only have low-light or will that work?


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

If you look at the lighting thread:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html

you will see that your lighting is very low. I don't know how tall a 60 gallon tank is, but if it is taller than 16" you have low light. If you are EI dosing a low light tank, then I hope you are monitering your npk levels to make sure you are not overdosing.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

shinycard255 said:


> I have a drop checker, just don't have 4dkh solution. Is 30ppm too much if I only have low-light or will that work?


If your fish are ok, then 30ppm is ok.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

I can't say for sure, but I don't think you can have 30 ppm co2 in a 60 gallon tank at 1 - 2 bps.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

livingword26 said:


> If you look at the lighting thread:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html
> 
> you will see that your lighting is very low. I don't know how tall a 60 gallon tank is, but if it is taller than 16" you have low light. If you are EI dosing a low light tank, then I hope you are monitering your npk levels to make sure you are not overdosing.


The tank is 24" tall, so I'm still in low lighting

I was planning on buying some T5HO lights sometime this week actually, but yes I have been monitoring my npk levels


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

I would definitely get the co2 levels where they should be for sure, and get the bba under control before I put in any t5ho's, or you may complicate your bba problems. A nice 2 bulb t5ho will put you into the high/medium light range, and you will likely be using 4-6 bubble per second of co2.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks for the info livingword26. I spot treated the bba with some excel just now and I'm hoping that it will take of it, or at least some of it.

Since you are so helpful, I have another question. I have my CO2 running into a diffuser that is positioned towards the top of tank going into a powerhead to distribute the CO2 around the tank. Is this OK, or should I put the diffuser lower in the tank?

I'm also looking into getting some 4dkh solution, or making my own...


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

Generally the lower diffuser, the more co2 will get dissolved. However, if you are getting more of it into your powerhead, when it is set higher, and it is getting better dissolved that way, then that would be better. Since your tank is so high, it might not be a bad idea to set it at the bottom and see how it goes. you should be able to tell by looking which way is allowing more bubbles to reach the surface.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Ok i didnt say turn down c02. Bba loves it. It just hates oxygen more. The key is to have healthy plants. It will still grow on hardscape occaisionally but if ur plants are healthy it wont grow. Raise c02 levels or make them more consistent it goes both way. If u had to choose. Consistent is better. 30ppm really is not very high. I run about 60ppm.. no dead fish. Disc diffusers work great but u need some way to circulate c02 diffused water or ull have dead spots that dont get enough c02 hence algae. One solution is to reduce lighting. Thats easier to do and makes c02 control much easier...

Ferts play almost no role in bba. 2 much ferts wont cause it at all


Algae uses c02. Dont ever forget that.. it photosynthesizes the same as another plant. However. Healthy plants secreat chemicals to protect themselves from algae and disease.. good c02. Decent lights, good oxygen levels which contributes to redox. Which kills simple organisms such as algae... good fert routine and tank maintenance and ull be algae free soon enough


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Also. 1 ph drop is enough to equal about 30 ppm c02. Every .2 after that almost doubles. I drop 1.8 ph daily. Drop checker is yellow. The best way to know ur c02 is good, is after weeks of adjusting u notice ur plants are growing really well. Just go up slowly every week until u get there
If u have low light I wouldn't shoot more than a 1.2 drop in Ph daily from c02 as a starting point


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Might be worth a read...

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> Ok i didnt say turn down c02. Bba loves it. It just hates oxygen more. The key is to have healthy plants. It will still grow on hardscape occaisionally but if ur plants are healthy it wont grow. Raise c02 levels or make them more consistent it goes both way. If u had to choose. Consistent is better. 30ppm really is not very high. I run about 60ppm.. no dead fish. Disc diffusers work great but u need some way to circulate c02 diffused water or ull have dead spots that dont get enough c02 hence algae. One solution is to reduce lighting. Thats easier to do and makes c02 control much easier...
> 
> Ferts play almost no role in bba. 2 much ferts wont cause it at all
> 
> ...


Most of my plants are healthy, well, at least I thought they were. I upped my CO2 intake by 1 bubble, so I'm at around 3 bps. I'm going to give this a go for the next couple of days and see how the tank does. I can see how fluctuating CO2 can lead to bba though, as I was fiddling around with the bps this past week, going back between 1bps, then 2bps the next day, then back to 1, and so on. I guess we all learn from our mistakes. 

I'm also still in low light if I'm using 3xT8s (as by the lighting chart in the lighting section). I also went out and bought a 4 bulb T5HO this evening from the local hydroponics store by me. It's isn't hooked up yet, but it is already hanging above my tank. I won't get it running until i get my 4dkh solution I ordered and the bba goes away. 

I should have good oxygen in the tank as I have a HOB filter and my powerhead does create a little surface agitation. I'm up on my fert dosing cleaning every week. I haven't missed one single dosing or cleaning at all so I'm assuming the bba is from me fiddling with the CO2. 

I started adding CO2 mid December, which I was doing 2 bps for a while without messing with it and had no issues. I don't know what got over me to tamper with it last week.

EDIT: I believe I have good CO2 circulation as well. I have a powerhead towards the top of my tank pointing down towards the opposite corner of the tank and I have the CO2 diffuser right underneath the powerhead intake. The powerhead catches every single CO2 bubble and shoots it across the tank. Is there something else I'm missing here?


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

Nubster said:


> Might be worth a read...
> 
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html


WOW that's a lot of text 

Skimming over it now, but I'll take a full read at work tomorrow since I'm usually rummaging around this forum anyway during work hours :hihi:


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

flow is hard to master in a tank.

its my number one enemy for bba.. the dynamics of my tank are very difficult with my equipment.. i have 31x turnover to keep flow good. most people don't need that much but with my size tank. placement of filters. placement of plants and types of plants. flow gets changed, reduce, redirected.. i just moved my powerhead because even though i stopped getting bba almost everywhere else. my forground plants on the right side get some. as of 2 days ago. it stopped growing there.. now i jsut have to watch elsewhere.. so you can see flow is HUGE to algae control.

also with more light. u can expect to DOUBLE ur c02 usage if not triple.. i went frm t5n0 of 72 watts to 48 watts of t5ho with EXCELLENT reflectors. BOOOOOMMM ALGAE

i have since raised the new lights 15 inches above my tank...i don't even use all 4 bulbs because its more light than i can handle. i can't put enough c02 in tank without killling fishies


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

i read that article and this statement will never be true


"outcompete algae." 

plants don't outcompete algae for nutrients.. its impossible.. otherwise u would run out of nutrients daily
plants secret chemicals that protect themselves
and help to produce balanced water chemstry.. algae hates balance


also by maintenance. that does include pruning and trimming of old leaves.. MAKES A BIG DIFFERENECE


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## FreedPenguin (Aug 2, 2011)

BOOOM algae. That made me ROFL 


HD Blazingwolf said:


> flow is hard to master in a tank.
> 
> its my number one enemy for bba.. the dynamics of my tank are very difficult with my equipment.. i have 31x turnover to keep flow good. most people don't need that much but with my size tank. placement of filters. placement of plants and types of plants. flow gets changed, reduce, redirected.. i just moved my powerhead because even though i stopped getting bba almost everywhere else. my forground plants on the right side get some. as of 2 days ago. it stopped growing there.. now i jsut have to watch elsewhere.. so you can see flow is HUGE to algae control.
> 
> ...


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> flow is hard to master in a tank.
> 
> its my number one enemy for bba.. the dynamics of my tank are very difficult with my equipment.. i have 31x turnover to keep flow good. most people don't need that much but with my size tank. placement of filters. placement of plants and types of plants. flow gets changed, reduce, redirected.. i just moved my powerhead because even though i stopped getting bba almost everywhere else. my forground plants on the right side get some. as of 2 days ago. it stopped growing there.. now i jsut have to watch elsewhere.. so you can see flow is HUGE to algae control.
> 
> ...


31x turnover rate?! Damn that's a lot. I'm only around 9x turnover rate in my tank and I thought that was rather high. I might have to look into getting another powerhead and sticking it on the opposite side of the tank to help with circulation if I still see BBA forming. I have my HOB and powerhead on the same side of the tank. I originally had them on opposite sides, but the circulation wasn't to my liking so I moved it.

Since I got more powerful lights, I might have to look into getting a bigger CO2 tank then. I didn't know that it would double or triple the CO2 input. Good to know as well. The lights I bought also have some GOOD reflectors. I can see at least 6-7 reflections per bulb in the reflectors. I might have to cut back on some of the lighting as well, but only time will tell. Right now the light is hanging 12" above my tank with all 4 bulbs in, but the lights aren't on until I get the BBA under control. With 12" above the tank, in reference to the lighting sticky, I have high lighting. But most likely I will have to mess around with the lights to get them where I need them to be. And those lights are bright too! They completely light up my basement!


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

yeah i had the light up room effect.. check out my 29 gallon. u can see how high my lights are.. pictures taken are with 2 bulbs on and light sensitivity turned down on camera

a good way to help diffuse c02 is to split ur c02 line into two or 3 sections and run multiple diffusers around the tank

and yes 31x.. i've had lower but the flow dynamics of my tank stink... therefore i just have to force it.. i'd prefer less but in the end. none of my fish are bothered by it. 31x goes down to about 17 when lights go off


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

FreedPenguin said:


> BOOOM algae. That made me ROFL


GLAD that i could give a laugh


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> a good way to help diffuse c02 is to split ur c02 line into two or 3 sections and run multiple diffusers around the tank


This I might have to do. I do have 2 diffusers so that's not a problem. My 4dkh solution is going to be here on Thursday and I'm picking up a 5lb CO2 tank on Thursday as well. 

The BBA is also losing the battle in my tank which I am excited about. If it's gone by this weekend, I'm going to get my T5HO lights running and see how I do. Hopefully no BOOOOOOOM ALGAE :hihi:


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

MUWAHAHAHAHAA

while fighting algae.. its very helpful to do water changes.. if u can afford the time and effort. 2-3 per week 50% or greater water changes REALLLY REALLY helps combat algae

then once things stabilize. cut back down to once per week


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

So the algae is almost gone which means I might be able to start up my new lights for the first time. :bounce:


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

shinycard255 said:


> I have a drop checker, just don't have 4dkh solution. Is 30ppm too much if I only have low-light or will that work?


without 4dkh drop checkers are useless, they are still useless even used with 4dkh IMO, you cannot judge the co2 levels by looking the colors, look at the plants to see how they react toward the co2, look at the fish to see how they react.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> a good way to help diffuse c02 is to split ur c02 line into two or 3 sections and run multiple diffusers around the tank





shinycard255 said:


> This I might have to do. I do have 2 diffusers so that's not a problem. My 4dkh solution is going to be here on Thursday and I'm picking up a 5lb CO2 tank on Thursday as well.
> 
> The BBA is also losing the battle in my tank which I am excited about. If it's gone by this weekend, I'm going to get my T5HO lights running and see how I do. Hopefully no BOOOOOOOM ALGAE :hihi:


HD 

dont you need manifold to use multiple co2 diffuser? i dont think you could use multiple diffuser without manifold.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

sure u can.. they both run at the same pressure. i've done it. one is a litle faster. one is a little slower.. i ran 3 in my 29 one time and it worked great. but its still no match for a reactor

manifolds are good for running multiple tanks. but to reitterate. u'fve already dialled in how much u want in the tank now u just need to diffuse it better... u will notice more c02 in the water this way and a little more ph drop.. i doubt u'll have any concerns with fish health


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

shinycard255 said:


> So the algae is almost gone which means I might be able to start up my new lights for the first time. :bounce:


 
also i see old leaves.. they are going to become easy prey for BBA when u get the new lights. trmming will be critical before u turn them on. less 4-5 days down the road u will have it comming back


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> also i see old leaves.. they are going to become easy prey for BBA when u get the new lights. trmming will be critical before u turn them on. less 4-5 days down the road u will have it comming back


I have 1 old leaf on there that has holes in it. Was thinking of cutting it off because I don't like the look of it. Do I just cut it as close to the rhizome as possible?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## touch of sky (Nov 1, 2011)

Yes. I am glad you are solving your algae problems.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

touch of sky said:


> Yes. I am glad you are solving your algae problems.


I'm assuming a lot of people don't want to grow algae, but plants. Algae is no bueno in my book. I'm just glad I caught the bba early before it completely took over the tank


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

well take a closer look at ur leaves. there are brown spots and color changes throughout the leaves.. when u see a leaf that has consistent color all the way through. if it has a pattern normally then u would want to see a consistent pattern. 

again consistent color and veinage are key here for a healthy leaf.

cut as close to rhizome as possible. or i pull mine off on plant like that.. it peels away if it is an outer leaf


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