# How to control java fern size?



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi caykuu,

Some species don't grow anywhere near that size, for example I grow Microsorum pteropus 'Wendelov' and Microsorum pteropus 'Trident' and both of them stay about 5" in height.

'Wendelov' on left and 'Trident' in center;


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## caykuu (Jul 30, 2011)

Good to know! I totally forgot that different species will grow to different sizes. 
Your wendelov looks very nice! In your experience, are the different types of java fern harder/easier to grow than another? Or do they mostly all have the same care needs?

edit: wow, signature is NOT working right. LOL.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

They are all the same species, just different varieties. In any event, all Java Fern will require the same care methods for the most part (the thinner variations might require more light than the thicker leafed ones) and will probably all work very well for you. In fact, I have had normal Java Fern that hasn't gotten more than 4 or 5 inches in leaf length as well.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I've had Reg. Java, Red, Narrow leaf and Trident.

I can only seem to do well with Reg, Java. 

At one point I even had 
all 4 varieties in the same tank. So, I can not say they all have the
same requirements.

I keep low light tanks, maybe some Var. need CO2?


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## caykuu (Jul 30, 2011)

DogFish said:


> I've had Reg. Java, Red, Narrow leaf and Trident.
> 
> I can only seem to do well with Reg, Java.
> 
> ...


Hmm, interesting to know... I just went and purchased a narrow leaf java fern from petsmart, and should be receiving the standard java fern in the mail soon. What do you think was missing on your narrow-leaf?


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

lighting can effectively control size. low light that is enough to sustain life but not high enough to really promote it will generally keep most plants small

some such as swords will just send long stems out to reach for the light


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

caykuu said:


> Hmm, interesting to know... I just went and purchased a narrow leaf java fern from petsmart, and should be receiving the standard java fern in the mail soon. What do you think was missing on your narrow-leaf?



As HD Blazingwolf said light is a key factor. In my tank I was not dosing that may have been part of the issue too. Maybe too much competion for water column nutrition.

The Trident, Reg, and Red were all in the top 1/3 of the tank. So equal light and all had good water flow.

The narrow leaf was on driftwood on the substrate and a bit shaded by Crypts. It grew "O.K". That narrow leaf is now in my Whiskey Barrel Pond getting lots of light and in good flow and it's got lots of little short leaves.

All that makes me think it like lower light.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

DogFish said:


> That narrow leaf is now in my Whiskey Barrel Pond getting lots of light and in good flow and it's got lots of little short leaves.
> 
> All that makes me think it like lower light.


take ludwigia, or a crypt, and stick it in a barrell with full sun. it will produce many small leaves.. it does not have the available co2 to reach ful leaf size. and even if it did, it would not be able to sustain the leaf. bigger leaves can absorb more light, thus increasing the demand for more nutrients


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## caykuu (Jul 30, 2011)

Thanks for the info- I'd love if my ferns could grow up to 10 inches in leaf length, but my light is quite low atm. I may add another bulb, making two bulbs of T8. 
Besides dosing Excel, DIY co2, and pressurized co2, is there another way to supplement co2?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi caykuu,

Those are the three most economical ways to supplement CO2. You can use Glutaraldehyde instead of Excel. Glut is less than 1/2 the cost of Excel but it really only makes sense if you have several larger tanks you are dosing.


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## caykuu (Jul 30, 2011)

I only have a 55gal planted. A 500ml bottle of excel lasted me a year. Do you think it's more economical to go for the Glut in this case? Would Metricide 14 work, or is there a better type?


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## El Zilcho (Jun 16, 2012)

DogFish said:


> ...... That narrow leaf is now in my Whiskey Barrel Pond getting lots of light and in good flow and it's got lots of little short leaves.
> 
> All that makes me think it like lower light.


Oh. I was actually going to make another post asking why my Java fern produce tiny 1-1.5'' leaves. Maybe my new DIY LED light is too high of a light for my tank.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> take ludwigia, or a crypt, and stick it in a barrell with full sun. it will produce many small leaves.. it does not have the available co2 to reach ful leaf size. and even if it did, it would not be able to sustain the leaf. bigger leaves can absorb more light, thus increasing the demand for more nutrients


Interesting point. My whiskey barrel pond results do support that. There is direct Sun from 11 am to 2pm. Everything is strong & healthily but "dwarf" in size to the similar aged adult plants. 

I felt it was a matter of the plants regulating themselves by what they needed to live. I do have new growth in just about every plant. I noticed a runner on my C. Keei today. 

I have everything fairly close to the surface in the pond. I'll remove the bricks under the clay pots and drop them 4" deeper for two weeks and see what effect that has. Should be interesting.

OP sorry about the Quasi derail of your thead.


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## Forumsnow (Feb 22, 2012)

I would have to agree that the root control is light. The more light you have the more demand for ferts and co2 and will result in larger growth. I have some regular java fern in my low light turtle tank that stays under maybe 4". While the ones in my high tech tank under t5ho lightand pressurized co2 they are close to 10" or more. Light is the "boss" of everything else lol!


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

DogFish said:


> Interesting point. My whiskey barrel pond results do support that. There is direct Sun from 11 am to 2pm. Everything is strong & healthily but "dwarf" in size to the similar aged adult plants.
> 
> I felt it was a matter of the plants regulating themselves by what they needed to live. I do have new growth in just about every plant. I noticed a runner on my C. Keei today.
> 
> ...


look at it in terms of PAR
full sun is = to about 2000 PAR aquatic plants cannot utilize much more than 200 PAR.. so u'll need to shade a lot to get different results. much more than just dropping 4 inches or so.. got any floaters?? let them fill the bucket up and wait 2 weeks to see growth changes u'll be surprised how fast the plants can still grow


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

caykuu said:


> I only have a 55gal planted. A 500ml bottle of excel lasted me a year. Do you think it's more economical to go for the Glut in this case? Would Metricide 14 work, or is there a better type?


Hi caykuu,

If a 500 ml bottle of Excel lasted a year for me I would stick with Excel; when I was buying 500ml every couple of months then I started doing Glut instead.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> look at it in terms of PAR
> full sun is = to about 2000 PAR aquatic plants cannot utilize much more than 200 PAR.. so u'll need to shade a lot to get different results. much more than just dropping 4 inches or so.. got any floaters?? let them fill the bucket up and wait 2 weeks to see growth changes u'll be surprised how fast the plants can still grow


I toss handfuls of water lettuce in the compost each week. I keep about 1/4 -1/3 covered and find that is a great level to keep hair algae in check. 

I'll try your experiment until the end off the month. I'll allow the Water Lettuce to cover the surface and I'll drop the pots down 4" more. I'm always open to learning more about our hobby


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

as an extra aside. got any spare c02 equipment u can toss in there? crank it up and watch the results

i've dabbled a little with glass containers by windows and seen the difference co2 can make for a plant that gets full sun


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

No, I don't use CO2 at all. I kept it simple low-moderate light, dirt floors, very min. water column ferts. Low light demand plants.


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