# Does Eco-Compleat or seachem flourite have to be replaces over time?



## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

hay...

I'm going to re-doo my whole substrate with 1 inch eco-compleat on the bottem, and 1 inch of plain gravil on top. My question is, do you ever have to replace the eco-compleat? does eco-compleast or Seachem flourite loos their minnerals after time? If these expensive substrates have to be replaced every so often I'm not goin to bother buying them.


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## Salamastre (Jun 19, 2005)

Must. Resist. Feeding. The. Troll.

To my knolage, aquadic plants will get nutreince from teh water column, and mulm in the bottem substrate will fead tehm when eco-compleat wastes, and they wont dye.

It is extreamly appreatid by aquadic plants taht you use a substrate in their faverot color. Swords like red substrate, cryptos like black substrate, stemmed aquadic plants like pink and blue substrate.

People have diffrent oppinions, but bottem line is, you can not dissagress that it is vital that you not buy imbread plants. Get captive bread plants and you will see what I meen.

Hope this information makes your plants happie, and they pearl with lots of bubbels.

:icon_redf could not resist


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Now Salamastre! Behave!

Would you like to provide a proper answer for some of the folks who may have the same question? :icon_wink 

Mike


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## cich (Aug 5, 2003)

I'm sure the nutrients eventually become depleted, but with substrate fertilization it won't be a problem.


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

that was the stupidist information I've ever heard.. what the hell is an imbread plant??? it don''t matter what collour your gravil is


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

LOL on the "stupidest information . . " line!

To me, the question has always been, if the expensive stuff runs out of nutrients in a year or so, why not start with an inert substrate and learn how to grow plants in it?

I've been told that EcoComplete will not run out of niutrients. I don't know.

Bill


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Since the minerals are part of the inorganic structure of the substrate it will take a very long time for them to "run out". In fact I'm betting that your glass would sag before the minerals ran out. 

You do know that glass flows?


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

My understanding, possibly incorrect, is that the expensive substrates do not add significant nutrients (except for, maybe, Eco Complete) that are not supplied via the normal tank processes. Some may provide extra surface area to facilitate the dispersion of water column nutrients. All require nitrate, phosphate, and trace dosing.

(If I am wrong I would truly appreciate correction.)

Not all inorganic components of a substrate dissolve. It depends on a lot of things, and if they do dissolve it might not be to a form that is useable to the plants.

Bill


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Both Flourite and Eco-Complete are a great source of trace elements when they are part of a mature substrate. But in our high light fast growing tanks they can't provide enough traces fast enough. And as Tom Barr has stated many times all aquatic plants will take nutrients from the water column before they take them from their roots.


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

I think stuff like Flora base and maybe the ADA stuff are supposed to be replaced every so often. Not Flourite and Eco, AFAIK.

The porosity is more important than how much traces are in the stuff anyway, as the long-term benefits are going to relate to CEC, which provides the right environment for nutrient uptake.

And I think wheat is imbread, but it doesn't grow in aquaria.
(Sorry, I just can't resist a bad pun). :hihi:


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

aquaverde said:


> And I think wheat is imbread, but it doesn't grow in aquaria.
> (Sorry, I just can't resist a bad pun). :hihi:



I think I ran into people that were imbread where I went to grad school... 

I think you're all right on about CEC and minor nutrients in the substrate. Fluorite and eco should last almost indefinitely, but its the high co2, and light that drives plant growth...hence we need to feed the water column.


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

I can't recall where now, but some guy was growing stem plants with NO substrate. Granted, that looks pretty ugly IMO, but it sure proves your point about the importance of feeding through the water column...


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

I've had crypts and vals and similar plants floating in a low light tank for more than 6 months, and they still look OK. But they are not reproducing nor growing much, which they probably would do if planted in a substrate.

Floating plants, like hornwort, are growing rapidly.

Bill


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

shuks said:


> hay...
> 
> I'm going to re-doo my whole substrate with 1 inch eco-compleat on the bottem, and 1 inch of plain gravil on top. My question is, do you ever have to replace the eco-compleat?


No.



> does eco-compleast or Seachem flourite loos their minnerals after time?


No.



> If these expensive substrates have to be replaced every so often I'm not goin to bother buying them.


Neither would I.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

cool...
thanks ta yall's information, I think I'll won't buy expensive substrate. I'll just keep carefull watch on my water collum. All the plant's I had WERE growing, but not very well. I didn't have any test kits, and I think I was overdosing my tanks with "Equlibrium" because my water would turn pure green. Instead of buying an expensive substrate that will cost around 150$ to fill a 75 gallon tank, I'll spend that money on proper test kits and dry fertilizers, mabey even a c02 tank.

thanks again..


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

You don't want to fill the tank. Only the bottom few inches. I doubt it was the Equilibrium that was causing your green water.


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

When I had my plants (that wernt dooin very well), the only nutrience I added to the water was, "equlibrium" and "kent freshwater". If it wasn't the Equlibrium that was turning my water green, it must have been the "kent freshwater". Kent freshwater added iron, potasium, and other micro nutriance. I would alwayse under does the Kent product. it said to add 1 tsp per 20 gallons, but I would only add about 1/2 tsp for every 20 gallons because I've been batteling green algy in my water. After a bunch of water changes, and less light, I would get rid of the green algy in my water, but it would come back in a matter of days. 

Maybe I just need to buy some test kits to monoter the nutrience in my water collum. Who knows? Mabey the green water came from fluctuations in my ph, kh, and gh?? 

The green water became such a problem I had to rip all my plant out of my tanks and start from scratch. Currently, my tank only has a bunch of rock and gravil, and I'm only using 40 watts of light. Now my water is crystal clear, but my tank look really dull. Im going to start from scratch and buy another 100 watts of light, a bunch of test kits, and dry fertilizers. I'll keep a carefull watch on the nutrience levels, and hopefully I wont have any more green water problems. The only problem is I cant fined any place that sells dry fertilizers in bulk. I went to the "rex grigg" site and he lists a web site that sells dry fertilizer in bulk, but wen I looked at the site it I couldn't fined any of the proper dry fertilizers.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I doubt the Kent product caused the green water algae outbreak. Normally GW is associated with high levels of ammonia or a huge imbalance of the nitrate/phosphate levels.

What site did you go to? If you went to Greg Watson's site they are all there. Try www.gregwatson.com If you went to the Hydroponics site then you just did not find the stuff. Here is a direct link http://www.hydroponics.com/info/aquatics/pmdd.htm


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

thanks a bunch rex..


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