# 60L (15G) Budget Aquarium - UK User (56K) Low Light/Tech now Planted



## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi everybody. This is my credit crunch budget tropical tank thread. :redface:

After one of my colleagues got a fishtank (a forum user named moorin), I decided I wanted to have one again. We already had all the stuff I needed, except for half of it had gone missing, and half of the stuff had stopped working!

So I went out with my girlfriend last week, and bought a whole Hagen Elite 60L tank & stand setup for £115. (Tank, Stand, Hood, Light, Filter/Pump, Heater, Thermometer, Decorative Rock/Plant Thing, Fish Food, Water Treatment & Water Cycle Chemicals)

The Gravel/Rocks & Air Pump were salvaged from the old tank setup, with a couple of rocks found in a wood near Loughborough. I connected the air pump to a 6" air stone I bought for water oxygenation, and also bought 3 fake plants. The plant pot is a makeshift "cave" for the plec, a steal at 50p! I also got a digital thermometer for £3.50 off ebay, as I didn't trust the strip thermometer. The heater is actually 4 degrees warmer than it should be (set at 23C, tank is 27C).

Today, I decided the tank is safe for fish now, so I bought 5 Dalmation Mollies (2 Males, 3 Females), and one Ancestrius Plec (Sex Unknown).

A couple of pics (aquarium photography is hard!)


























I live in a hardwater area, so I've gone for hard water tolerant fish. I'd like a few rainbows too, but fear they will get too big. Any suggestions for a few more fish which will fit in with my current community?

In the future I may redo the tank and plant it with live plants, but for the time being this suffices.

EDIT:

A couple more pictures;

How it stand's in my bedroom









And utilising my DVDs as an air pump stand (the wiring isn't long enough to put it elsewhere really!)


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

ukaps.org/forum. 
Join us 
Nice start, I found mollies don't like Co2. The other things are that the bubble stone is useless (in fact, it's actually detrimental) the filter not really powerful enough and the plec will get too big for a 60cm.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

garuf said:


> ukaps.org/forum.
> Join us
> Nice start, I found mollies don't like Co2. The other things are that the bubble stone is useless (in fact, it's actually detrimental) the filter not really powerful enough and the plec will get too big for a 60cm.


The filter seems to make a strong flow, it's rated to 100L. Besides it's a budget tank, it will get replaced only when necessary 

Why is the air stone detrimental?

And we had an ancestrius plec in our old 60L and it never grew over 5", and lived very happily too.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

The air stone won't hurt the fake plants When you graduate to live plants, then you may consider not using it, or only at night.{I do on a low light tank at night} It is said to reduce CO2. I would move the large stone to the left,off center. GL with it.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

waterfaller1 said:


> The air stone won't hurt the fake plants When you graduate to live plants, then you may consider not using it, or only at night.{I do on a low light tank at night} It is said to reduce CO2. I would move the large stone to the left,off center. GL with it.


I can see what you mean about the stone, but I wanted to keep it away from the heater, and to hide the air stone


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

***UPDATE***

Well we've got 2 dalmation molly fry already. So went and bought this floating breeder for £4.59 for them. Will try and get some pictures of the fry and edit this post later.


















And here are the fry...
















They are already nibbling at crushed food.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Some photos of the tank inhabitants.
These have all needed a fair bit of PP and are still dark, but at ISO800 they can't really be brightened up without a feck load of noise (and I've reduced a lot of noise!)...


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi tech cucumber feeder...










Stainless Steel Cutlery, boiled to make it safe.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Well after my Heater problem thread I decided to test the heater.

So I filled a bucket up with water,put the heater and digital thermometer in it, placed it on a plastic box in the garage (so the concrete floor didn't cool it) and tested the heater.

Turns out the heater is actually around 0.7C cooler than it reads, and doesn't overheat, which I'm happy about.

I'm also on the lookout for Java Ferns/Java Moss, Anubias & Crypts (I have a wanted thread on ukaps), to get rid of the plastic and go planted


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Overwhelmed by the response 

Bought myself one of these Ebay Hong Kong Special Aquarium Fans to see whether it can cool the tank down.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

skinz180189 said:


> Overwhelmed by the response


It's quiet on the boards. Many had parties and might have overeaten,causing them to sleep in. Glad to hear you are going to give up the plastic for weeds. :thumbsup:


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## Beauregard (Jun 13, 2009)

Nice looking tank. Super photography.

What camera are you using?


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Beauregard said:


> Nice looking tank. Super photography.
> 
> What camera are you using?


Thanks. Those were taken on either my Nokia N82 camera phone (the worse pictures) or my Nikon D40, just using the 18-55mm Kit lens.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

waterfaller1 said:


> Glad to hear you are going to give up the plastic for weeds. :thumbsup:


 Exactly what I was thinking. Once you make the switch, you can't go back!


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## plantman119 (Jun 7, 2009)

waterfaller1 said:


> It's quiet on the boards. Many had parties and might have overeaten,causing them to sleep in. Glad to hear you are going to give up the plastic for weeds. :thumbsup:


lol ya everyone *ATE* too much. I don't think thats what happened. 

EDIT- lol i was just realizing the irony of posting an independance day comment on a uk thread. :biggrin::biggrin:


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Forgot about Independence Day lol! It's going to be a slow switch to live plants, but I've heard of a new LFS with a good reputation so next weekend I'll hopefully get to check out what they have in stock/can order in.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

I've been offered some Java Fern and Crypts. Thing is, I don't know how many cuttings of each I should get? Does 3 or 4 of each sound a good starting point?


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## Nexxorcist (Nov 22, 2008)

sounds good to me. you can cut up ur own and multiply them over time.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

I'm making the move to No Tech low light planted this weekend. By Friday I should have acquired over 10 Java Fern Plantlets, and a selection of moss


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Awesome idea. The mollies will love the new live plants. The moss will save so many babies, you won't need the breeder before too long.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> Awesome idea. The mollies will love the new live plants. The moss will save so many babies, you won't need the breeder before too long.


That's good, because that breeder is annoying when it decides to start floating off around the tank!


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Well now I'm home and have received some plants, I've changed the water and rescaped whilst at it.

Now I'm not really following any styles with this (nor am i looking to win any competitions), I guess it's sort of like a riverbed with a load of non matching stones and a plant pot! I've yet to do the moss stones, just waiting for our lass to finish work and bring some netting. The stone situation is from collecting stones over a long period of time, so they are form many different places. Oh well.

Also a bit of bad news, my white male molly was found dead in an alcove within the fake plastic stone . Shame really, as he was the best looking fish in there.

Now for some pictures;









Full Shot










































Hopefully the plants won't die lol, I'm going to do a 10% change tomorrow and sunday too just in case any nasty stuff starts up.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Moss added...


















Secured using plum netting and cotton thread.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Currently investigating budget fertilisation, any suggestions?


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Another update.

I've re-arranged it all again. New rocks, more moss, some spiral vallis, and 9 guppies (3 male, 6 female).


























I released the molly fry yesterday as they looked big enough to fend for themselves. They lasted until this morning with no problems, and then they've been had . Fortunately, one of the female mollies is getting really fat, so more must be on their way.


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## JamesQuall (Mar 13, 2009)

I like how the tank is progressing. I am a fan of the riverbed look. 

One thing - I noticed that your java fern rhizomes are buried in the substrate. The rhizome can rot in the substrate, so it is better to have it growing on driftwood or on a porous rock, tied with string or an elastic until it takes hold. 

Also, I think some cabomba would look good in the background. I have always liked it in central american river themed tanks.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

JamesQuall said:


> I like how the tank is progressing. I am a fan of the riverbed look.
> 
> One thing - I noticed that your java fern rhizomes are buried in the substrate. The rhizome can rot in the substrate, so it is better to have it growing on driftwood or on a porous rock, tied with string or an elastic until it takes hold.
> 
> Also, I think some cabomba would look good in the background. I have always liked it in central american river themed tanks.


Thanks.

The Java Fern is actually barely in the gravel, the roots are held down by the larger stones around it. So hopefully it shouldn't rot. They were ziptied to stones but it wasn't good enough.

I'll look into the Cabomba.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

skinz180189 said:


> Thanks.
> I'll look into the Cabomba.


I tried it my low light tank and it didn't survive. 

To me the easiest plants are Wisteria, Java fern and Milfoil. 

I think the cheapest ferts for you would be root tabs. Look for pond root tabs. I saw some on line for $5.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

I checked the Cabomba out and I didn't like the look and sound of it anyway, too much like hornwort for my liking. I'll check root tabs out, thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: In my last picture, I can see one of the Molly Fry! Maybe one has survived and is hiding. Or maybe not actually.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Beautiful Guppies! I am sorry to hear about your male molly. Maybe one of the fry will end up looking like him. The plants look very nice. Much better than the plastic ones.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> Beautiful Guppies! I am sorry to hear about your male molly. Maybe one of the fry will end up looking like him. The plants look very nice. Much better than the plastic ones.


The fry are dead too if you re-read above I'm afraid. Next time I'll have to catch some and let them get even bigger.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yikes! I didn't even see that last bit after the pictures. Sorry to hear about the fry. Maybe one of the females will still have a batch of babies from the male. They store the milt for at least a month.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> Yikes! I didn't even see that last bit after the pictures. Sorry to hear about the fry. Maybe one of the females will still have a batch of babies from the male. They store the milt for at least a month.


Yeah, one of them looks very fat ATM anyway compared to the rest.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I too enjoy the riverbed look so I like how this tank is looking. In my experience cabomba gets very leggy in low light but you don't like it anyway so i guess that point is moot. 

moving on, Wisteria is an excellent low light plant. I've also had LOTS of luck with Sunset hygro and cryptocorynes, especially wendtii. 

I know others have said the bubble wall can be detrimental, but that's only if you are injecting CO2 into your tank. 

If you're on a budget and going low tech/no tech KEEP THE AIRSTONE that's my best piece of advice. I have them in ALL of my tanks (which are low tech / no tech tanks) and I get good plant growth in VERY dim light. I'm not the only low-techer on here who uses and airstone either. 

Make sure to keep an eye on your ammonia and nitrIte levels and that you're not stocking the tank too quickly...unless you did a fishless cycle that you didn't mention? in which case you might be stocking ok, but still watch the ammonia, mollies (and guppies to some extent) produce more ammonia than most other fish in the same size range. And be careful of overpopulating with all those livebearers!


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Yeah I did a fishless cycle at the start, plus throw some cycle in every water change too just for good measure. I've never tested water parameters before and never had any random death issues, so I don't bother TBH.

I looked at wisteria but I don't like these "needle" leafed plants.

Yeah overstocking can be a problem. Personally I'm not going to buy anymore fish to put in, due to the livebearers in there. Instead of the guppies I wanted Praecox Rainbows but my LFS sold them 30mins before I got there, and I just thought I'll have guppies instead.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ah well then not to worry about that problem! 

Hmm....I wonder if they didn't have the wrong plant labeled "wisteria" because Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) is not really what I would call a "needle-leaved" plant the way Cabomba is at all. I would suggest, even if you don't like them, getting something in there that grows quickly though at the beginning until everything is stable, and perhaps until you find a fast grower that you DO like. Your tank is pretty heavily stocked for a low tech tank, having some fast growing stems will definitely be beneficial in terms of overall tank stability IMHO.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Sorry I'm confusing plants! Wisteria looks OK actually. Don't know where I'd put it though!

When I get home on Friday I'll also have a Fluval U2 Filter waiting for the tank. This should be a vast improvement over the crap one I have ATM. Any suggestions on switching over the filters? e.g, should I run both for a few weeks or swap filter media from the existing one to the new one?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahah there is PLENTY of room in your tank for some wisteria! Pick a back corner or the whole back wall!  

As for the filter I think if you CAN switch over the filter media (if they're compatible) then that's probably your best option. If not, I would definitely run the 2 filters concurrently for a while because most of your beneficial (aka ammonia eating) bacteria live in the filter. 
At least both of those methods have worked for me, but I only use HOB filters at the moment, so it may be different with a canister? You could wait for some other experts / canister uses to chime in


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Karackle said:


> Hahah there is PLENTY of room in your tank for some wisteria! Pick a back corner or the whole back wall!
> 
> As for the filter I think if you CAN switch over the filter media (if they're compatible) then that's probably your best option. If not, I would definitely run the 2 filters concurrently for a while because most of your beneficial (aka ammonia eating) bacteria live in the filter.
> At least both of those methods have worked for me, but I only use HOB filters at the moment, so it may be different with a canister? You could wait for some other experts / canister uses to chime in


There's no room behind those rocks in the middle what with the air stone being hard up between them and the wall! I'll find somewhere, just ordered some off aquatic magic.

I might run both filters for a few weeks, and soak the filter media in the Fluval with some cycle just to make sure.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Think I got the fluval u2 in just in time! Currently got both filters in (for the fluval media to mature), but that elite was a state after 5-6 weeks of being running. Gave it a full strip down clean, and there was waste everywhere inside.

Growth wise, the large ferns seem to have shot upwards compared to last weeks photos, and I think the Vals have grown a bit too. Everything else is plodding along, and I'm still waiting on my wisteria.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I have Wisteria. I got it on EBay. The stems arrived in bad condition. Result was 7 stems 4 in high. I planted it in a corner and now it fills the corner. It is behaving and staying in its corner contrary to the Hygro Sunset. Hygro Sunset tends to try take over the tank.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Water Wisteria is in. Wasn't much room though, think it may kill off some of the ferns.










Notice both filters in. Cheapo stingray filter will be out in a couple of weeks. 

Think I'm going to leave the Wisteria in there to keep it alive, then transfer it all to the breeder tank once that's set up and ready for planting in all honesty.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Only 3 pieces of Wisteria are surviving, and I've decided it's staying. Guppies like to swim in and out of it, plus it's somewhere for any fry to hide before I can catch them. May move it left though, seems to dominate the tank with being central. Now running the Fluval Filter only (added an extra dose of cycle for good measure.)










Excuse the water marks, I'd just done a change.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Quick update....









The stems seem to grow very quickly in here (wisteria is slower than whatever the other one is). Might rip the Java Ferns out, black algae spots are slowly taking over.
Have plenty of fat snails that continuously breed, yet no fry from the livebearers. These must be the least sexually active livebearers ever. 

Ammonia problem seems to be calming down, fish are losing the red area behind their gills after some frequent water changing.

Original moss is doing well...








Moss on the big stones doesn't seem to be doing anything.


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## Kolkri (Dec 9, 2006)

Don't worry once that moss gets going it well try to take over the tank.
Very nice set up.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Kolkri said:


> Don't worry once that moss gets going it well try to take over the tank.
> Very nice set up.


Cheers


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Not updated this for a few weeks...

The tank had started to grow pretty wildly now I'm using TPN+ for ferts, so I trimmed out around 2/3rds of it. Mostly Wisteria & the other stem (still don't know exactly what it is). Moss is really taking hold of the rocks, Java fern is still slow as ever. Amazon Sword is also growing well.

Fry wise, we must have about 25-30 now. Some are almost big enough to transfer to the 40 now. Fish wise, I'm down to 4 mollies, 7 guppies & the plec. 1 Mollie is recovering from cotton fungus, and has responded well to the treatment which is good.

A quick shot...


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Plants are growing nicely. Might want to move that mass of plants slightly to the right to hide the filter.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Plants are growing nicely. Might want to move that mass of plants slightly to the right to hide the filter.


It was hidden until I trimmed it back, it'll grow out that way again I'm sure


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

It looks nice! I am also a fan or river rock scapes.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Tank as it is now, will need a trim with this week's water change...










Sorry about the image quality, photobucket sucks.

Down to 2 adult mollies and 1 adult guppy now. They haven't lasted me that long, I had the water tested and it was fine, so they must have been old or a crap stock of fish. Most likely inbred. 2 otocinclus are now in there from the defunct 40litre, and they are happy alongside the bristlenose plec. Have about 40-50 molly/guppy fry in the floating breeders. Really need to rehome them TBH.

Plant wise - Java Fern all but dead, all the spiral vallis diasappeared, must have melted. Java moss thriving in some areas but struggling under the wisteria. Stems grow mad, as does the wisteria, and I have 2 amazon swords now, one salvaged from the 40 litre which only has 3 leaves left! I'm hoping I can save that.

All of this tank will be getting transferred into a Rekord 120 when I get round to it.


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