# Just when you think you've seen it all...



## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

I thought I'd pretty much done every mistake in the book to see all types of algae there is possible to have. Until now. There are what look like little green tubes (and what I swear are little yellow dots in them) growing out of my Java Fern. There are several other species of plant in the tank but it is only affecting the Java Fern leaf. 

Anyone know what this is???


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Kind if hard to tell from the pictures, but Java Feb will produce small plantlets on its leaves, they'll eventually grow roots and at that point you can ship the last they are growing from and plant the plantlets


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## HeavyUser (Jan 23, 2016)

When I bought some Java Ferns from a fellow member they had those green tubes looking thingies on them. No idea what they are but they are still there.


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

theatermusic87 said:


> Kind if hard to tell from the pictures, but Java Feb will produce small plantlets on its leaves, they'll eventually grow roots and at that point you can ship the last they are growing from and plant the plantlets



Sorry for the poor quality photos. I snipped a leaf off and tried for some better ones with my digital. They look as if they are anchored on and emerging from some sort of spore

Bump:


HeavyUser said:


> When I bought some Java Ferns from a fellow member they had those green tubes looking thingies on them. No idea what they are but they are still there.


How long have they been on yours?


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## CowBoYReX (Nov 30, 2013)

That is weird kinda nasty looking lol


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

freshwater sponge?


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

CowBoYReX said:


> That is weird kinda nasty looking lol


I know! Kind of freaking me out a little. Maybe @diana will jump in here and tell us all what this is?!?


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

If you have access to at least a 3X magnifying glass, it would be interesting to detach one, dissect it with a razor blade and at least rule out a mystery egg mass of some sort.


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

ichy said:


> freshwater sponge?


I never knew there was such a thing?!?
That would be pretty incredible if they were. Either way I just want to know



Bushkill said:


> If you have access to at least a 3X magnifying glass, it would be interesting to detach one, dissect it with a razor blade and at least rule out a mystery egg mass of some sort.


mystery egg mass......now I'm really freaked out lol


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Pictures are a bit hard to tell, but look into Java Fern disease. I would remove any infected pieces. Do more research and go from there.


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

WaterLife said:


> Pictures are a bit hard to tell, but look into Java Fern disease. I would remove any infected pieces. Do more research and go from there.


I did but could not find much. There are a handful of threads on here and other forums with this same growth but with no definitive answers. The closest I've come to one is a "gall" but no literature of this on aquatic species. Bacterial, fungal, viral??? I also wonder how rare this is or if it's increasing in occurrences.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Try sending a Private message to Tinanti (might take some time for a reply). He might know more about plant diseases.
From what little I have read and seen, those types of growths were a disease, and I think the best course of action was still to just toss, or at least separate the infected plants, whether it be bacterial, viral, etc.
If you find a more definitive answer, let me know.


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

WaterLife said:


> Try sending a Private message to Tinanti (might take some time for a reply). He might know more about plant diseases.
> From what little I have read and seen, those types of growths were a disease, and I think the best course of action was still to just toss, or at least separate the infected plants, whether it be bacterial, viral, etc.
> If you find a more definitive answer, let me know.


Just sent Tinanti a message. I'm becoming more and more intrigued with it. Going to reach out to some university contacts and see if I can't find out more.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

If it was a land plant I would call it a gall, for example, oak (Quercus species) get a lot of different kinds of galls, often from certain kinds of wasps. These sure do not live under water, though. 

Are the 'tubes' solid? 
Are they the same material as the leaf? Like an outgrowth of leaf tissue?
Is there a hollow inside, perhaps a hole from the back of the leaf (like something pushed out the leaf tissue from the back, but instead of tearing a hole, the leaf cells stretched out)?

Is this non-plant tissue stuck to the leaf? (would probably need at least a dissecting scope to see this- compare cell shapes and details)


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I think it is a disease. I've seen another thread on here about it-
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/33-plants/805442-java-fern-green-bumps-virus.html
I had a java fern with that in my first tank. The leaves got really warped and twisted too. I would cut off all the affected leaves, or maybe even throw that individual plant away. I don't think it's curable.


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

Diana said:


> If it was a land plant I would call it a gall, for example, oak (Quercus species) get a lot of different kinds of galls, often from certain kinds of wasps. These sure do not live under water, though.
> 
> Are the 'tubes' solid?
> Are they the same material as the leaf? Like an outgrowth of leaf tissue?
> ...


Some of the tubes tips seem to be closed almost into a point while others appear to have a round opening. I took a leaf out to remove some of the whatever these are. The smaller (younger???) ones were pretty easy to scrape off while the larger (older???) ones were more difficult to remove and have a very firm structure. They are growing on both sides of the leafs. Only in the larger ones can you see a small black hole like you described...pushing out of the leaf tissue from the back.

I want to say it's plant tissue but I'm just not sure. I tried to take some better photos of these spores. The yellow spherical shape inside these tubes are much easier to see in the smaller ones.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

I'm sorry, but I don't think I can really say more than others here already have. I thought adventitious plantlets at first, but I'm not so sure now. A plant pathologist might now more.


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

Tinanti said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't think I can really say more than others here already have. I thought adventitious plantlets at first, but I'm not so sure now. A plant pathologist might now more.


Still, I thank you for looking. I have removed all the Java fern from this tank but I'm still so curious to know what it is.


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## devilduck (May 9, 2012)

I commented on the old thread, I believe it is a disease of some sort. Fortunately, it is very slow spreading and you can easily remove the affected leaves. It can also spread to the rhizome, which get more problematic as it will slowly kills the java fern until you slice off the infected part of the rhizome. No other plants besides java ferns seem to get infected.


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

Update:

According to one expert, though she admittedly specializes in the study of marine algae, the growths on the leafs were being produced by the plant in order to store some form of needed gases. Also, that my fert dosing (potassium, iron, trace elements, excel- all at low levels) could have been a contributing factor. 

Though that still feels off to me. I've been keeping Java Fern for years and this is the first time I've seen this. Also it occurred only after I introduced a few new Java Ferns from a previously unused source. The mystery continues....


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