# CO2 Art- A critical look



## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Following this discussion.


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## Letsfish (Jul 11, 2017)

I don`t believe we need a medical grade regulator in this hobby but a good grade needle valve is essential.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

i sometimes use the old term "pot metal" when speaking of the cheaper type needle valves and that has led to being asked what I mean. I am not sure where the term pot metal came from but I suspect it is from the old days when folks used a metal pot and melted lead for different uses like sealing lead pipes. In any case I find the term meaning a type of metal that is easy to melt and easy to pour and mold things like fishing sinkers and such that are not at all critical on the quality front. For the old guys who have poured lead, we know that there was little care given to what type of lead or other metal was used as all we wanted was quick and cheap, as we were not going to do any fine work like cutting threads or forming tiny, precise holes like a needle valve needs. So when I speak of pot metal, it doesn't mean any specific combination of metals like tin, lead, and silver, but I use it as a general term to define metal that is not meant to be fine quality, just whatever goes in the pot!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

PlantedRich said:


> i sometimes use the old term "pot metal" when speaking of the cheaper type needle valves and that has led to being asked what I mean. I am not sure where the term pot metal came from but I suspect it is from the old days when folks used a metal pot and melted lead for different uses like sealing lead pipes. In any case I find the term meaning a type of metal that is easy to melt and easy to pour and mold things like fishing sinkers and such that are not at all critical on the quality front. For the old guys who have poured lead, we know that there was little care given to what type of lead or other metal was used as all we wanted was quick and cheap, as we were not going to do any fine work like cutting threads or forming tiny, precise holes like a needle valve needs. So when I speak of pot metal, it doesn't mean any specific combination of metals like tin, lead, and silver, but I use it as a general term to define metal that is not meant to be fine quality, just whatever goes in the pot!




I still hear the term “pot metal” (interchangeable with MIM or mold in metal) in the firearms hobby. It usually refers to small, ancillary parts such as slide stops, safeties, magazine releases, pins, etc.

The better made, higher quality firearms almost always have quality machined parts whereas the less expensive ones have MIM if the parts are metal.

I’ve found that this can be applied to other things like tools and metal parts for things like regulators. It doesn’t mean these parts don’t work, but they are typically of lesser quality that can negatively impact fit, finish, and even functionality. FWIW your observation of these needle valves being MIM appears accurate to me as well.


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## AguaScape (Oct 28, 2018)

*Needle valve*

It seems that the main item I would like to upgrade would be the needle valve. Do you have any recommendations on what valve to use?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

AguaScape said:


> It seems that the main item I would like to upgrade would be the needle valve. Do you have any recommendations on what valve to use?




I own the Pro-SE regulator (the exact one being discussed) and while the NV is a MIM part, my personal one holds its position and is capable of fairly fine adjustments with working pressure increased. I’m not sure if this is due to physics or the needle valve itself, or both.

If I was going to upgrade, I’d probably spring for the Fabco everybody seems to love. I just wish it came chrome plated or in stainless steel to match the look of the regulator.


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## AguaScape (Oct 28, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> I own the Pro-SE regulator (the exact one being discussed) and while the NV is a MIM part, my personal one holds its position and is capable of fairly fine adjustments with working pressure increased. I’m not sure if this is due to physics or the needle valve itself, or both.
> 
> If I was going to upgrade, I’d probably spring for the Fabco everybody seems to love. I just wish it came chrome plated or in stainless steel to match the look of the regulator.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that info. It is a bit more expensive than I hoped, but I guess you have to pay for quality.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

AguaScape said:


> Thank you for that info. It is a bit more expensive than I hoped, but I guess you have to pay for quality.




I can say that I actually really like the regulator itself. It seems well made and is extremely consistent. Even holding the same working pressure and flow rate until the co2 cylinder runs empty, which is a characteristic of true dual stage regulators.


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## StockRaker (Oct 25, 2018)

So what does one really need to spend (U.S. $) for a top notch, quality, money is no object, last a lifetime regulator?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

StockRaker said:


> So what does one really need to spend (U.S. $) for a top notch, quality, money is no object, last a lifetime regulator?


Best answer I could give you on this would be to search for posts by AlanLe or Flowerfishs in the for sale section. They list high end complete regulators for sale on a regular basis.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

StockRaker said:


> So what does one really need to spend (U.S. $) for a top notch, quality, money is no object, last a lifetime regulator?



Pre-assembled or some assembly required ???

New Smith 2 stage O2 regulator $187.86
https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/remember.pl
CGA 320 stem nut, Clippard mouse, power supply $56.93 plus shipping
https://www.diyco2regulator.com/cga-320-nut-nipple
https://www.diyco2regulator.com/co2-regulator-solenoid-with-15490-5-manifold-12v
Dakota metering valve 6amv1101. $88 plus shipping
https://www.dakotainstruments.com/barstock-metering-valve-mfvs-brass-straight-flow
Asst. brass fittings $10-$20..
https://www.diyco2regulator.com/fittings


$350-ish..and all new parts.
Add tank ,hoses bc, ect..

Doubt if one could get better...... 
Cuter maybe..


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

StockRaker said:


> So what does one really need to spend (U.S. $) for a top notch, quality, money is no object, last a lifetime regulator?


This can be one of many places where the discussion gets messy! If asking about the regulator itself, the answer is only moderately complicated as a really good reg in a dual stage model can be found new for around $250-300 or used or new old stock at much less, maybe around $50? But when many throw in the small parts as a "reg", then we open up a whole different set of parts and each of those parts can range from really cheap but what some like to the really, really high end which others feel they need! 
Often it can get down to what color is preferred! Like some want strictly stainless steel while others are simply wanting it to work really well and don't care if it is brass with some of the parts even having plastic covers in yellow or green! A fitting like an el made of stainless may book at $12 or $2 for a brass of the same. 
So the question of what is really good will never have the same answer for long if you ask ten people. But if one asks about a reg body that will last a very long time and what it should cost, I don't see our needs as being tough enough for most any reg to fail. We simply do not ask much from a reg compared to those which are used in industrial settings. At work, I have had regs go underwater for as much as a couple weeks and not fail during floods. At my house, I never expect my reg to go under at any time!


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