# Newby Questions



## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Hello All,


I am a beginner at the whole planted tank hobby, but I am looking forward to making this a life long thing. I have really enjoyed learning all of the information out there. Here is my set up: I have an Eclipse 5 gal corner system with 1 betta, 6glofish, and 4 redtail rasboras. I have 4 large anubias lanceolata and 1 small fern (not sure what type). I have white sand substrate with a layer of white rock on top. I have an 11watt 50/50 coralife bulb. This set up was done without any prior knowledge of proper substrates, bioloads, or anything. I managed to get through the new tank syndrome and get my amonia under control. My ph is 7, temp 78, amonia still rises to about .25 after about a week. I do 50% water changes weekly, vacuuming and cleaning. Things have been going well, but I was wondering about the long run with my plants. Will this set up be ok for plant life? Is this substrate ok, lighting, etc. Will I need a co2 system, fert tabs, dosing, or more light? The only thing I plan on adding will be tall lowlight background plants. This is my starter tank, and I have a 40 gal bowfront that I have waiting to be planted!!! Thanks


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

The rhizome plants you have are one of the easiest plants to grow. If they stop growing KNO3 will help them. Best plants to help you keep the ammonia down are hornwort and Anacharis. Hornwort grows very fast.  

How about a picture!  _
_


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Cool, I think I'll take a few tomorrow and post em. I have just been letting the tank do it's thing and it's doing well. I wanted to plant some java fern or something tall and full to put in an open area in the background.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Your tank is overstocked!


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Yeah, but the plan is to transfer the rasboras into a 40 gal tank eventually. The tank has been doing pretty good despite. These fish were in two separate tanks but my other tank cracked. I upgraded my light bulb to a brighter spectrum plant florescent bulb, and began dosing my tank with ferts. I added two java fern and some moss. The tank has maintained ammonia at zero for the past week and a half. Will post pics soon. Thanks


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Here is a pic of the tank.


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## Florida_Larry (Jan 19, 2009)

nice job hardwood, i would not change a thing on that tank set up,stocking or otherwise, if it is established, and holding, no changes are needed, you will also find the 40 will be much easier to deal with.

As to your being a newb, well that makes your setup all that more impressive. 

Nicely done Sir.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

By thumb rule the tank is overstocked for sure although with diligence it can be maintained without any toll. But for a beginner, a strong recommendation would be to follow the rules.

Not sure what kind of sand you are using but normally sand can be inert and you will need additional fert to supplement the plants.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

malaybiswas said:


> By thumb rule the tank is overstocked. For a beginner, a strong recommendation would be to follow the rules.
> Not sure what kind of sand you are using but normally sand can be inert and you will need additional fert to supplement the plants.


Researching the rule for deciding how many fish per gallon found that there is more than 1 rule and the size of fish affects the decision. Also having plants makes it possible to have more fish than the norm.

I do agree though that you will eventully need some root tabs. Check out Trallen44 tank. I believed he used root tabs initially. What ferts are you dosing with?

Nice Job!!


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I knew after reading that the sand was not the best substrate for the plants because it has no nutrients, however, I also read that dosing would give them what they need. The substrate is moonlight sand, with white gravel on top. I have been using 2.5 ml of nutrafin plant gro. Do you think this is ok, if so, how often should I dose? The tank has been doing very well, no more ammonia. The tank does have a secondary filter running, you can see it in the pic on the left. If my plants continue doing well, I hope to remove that secondary filter and just run the hood filter. Also, should I have a bubbler running in the tank at night? Thanks again!!


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

That tank is way overstocked. No way I would consider removing the second filter.

I'm glad the ammonia is under control. 

I don't have anything to say about the nutrafin plant gro, other than that is probably ok. I would guess you are putting too much into such a small tank, but I don't see how it could hurt.

That looks like a nice tank in the pic.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

kid creole said:


> That tank is way overstocked. No way I would consider removing the second filter.!!


I agree. But if you add a plant like Anacharis, common name Egeria densa, you would be okay with 1 filter.



Hardwood said:


> Also, should I have a bubbler running in the tank at night? Thanks again!!


I don't think so for those whom do have injected Co2. The bubbles are for driving off excess Co2.



Hardwood said:


> I have been using 2.5 ml of nutrafin plant gro. Do you think this is ok, if so, how often should I dose? !!


I think 2ml a week should sufice.


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## zavikan (Jan 5, 2009)

You have twice as many fish as you should ( I am guilty of overstocking too...but not to that extent).

Really try and move some out. That said, the more hiding places the better.

As this is your first tank, it is highly impressive. Never seen such a natural looking tank as a first timer. I'm certainly going to keep an eye on this thread and see where it goes. Good luck!


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

I knew it was overstocked as soon as I started reading up. I hope to get the 40 gal filled and cycling soon. These fish will just have to wait about a month or so until I'm ready to transfer 'em. I plan on leaving the 6 glo fish and betta in the tank. Then want to do two schools of fish in the 40 gal, prob brilliant rasbora and cardinal tetra. How many of each do you think I can do?


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## zavikan (Jan 5, 2009)

The only worry I have is the betta being nipped to death. My Glo-Fish demolished a Betta in 1 night. I felt horrible. :icon_cry:

But seeing as they are all together as is is, and no one is killing the betta, your fine I guess. Lucky you, I think the combo of glo-fish - Betta would be an awesome combo, aside the nipping. You dont seem to have that problem.


Hope to see your 40 gal soon.

co2 is always a plus. But can certainly be avoided.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Nice tank. The only real protest against the glows might come from the Betta, if he's pissed off all the time then it will only shorten his lifespan. IMO, they do better alone, the lifespan is said to be around 2yrs, especially for the cheap store bought ones, but I've seen those go 5yrs in the right conditions.

There are ways around overstocking as some have said, it really depends on how fast nitrogen builds and whether or not you can keep up with them doing water changes and growing the right plants, but I personally keep the crowding factor in mind, I don't like over crowding clashing against my plants. The one sure thing about overstocking, is if the keeper can't manage to resolve the problem (if there is one) then good old mother nature will trim the numbers as the weaker fish die off.


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Yeah, I have really kept an eye on the tank, the rasboras are very friendly, stay in the background plants, and are rarely seen (only during feeding time.) The betta is the king of the tank, but has never flared up his gill's or shown aggression. The glo fish on the other hand, chase each other around a fair amount. Also, one of the females was full of eggs the other day, now she's not!


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## zavikan (Jan 5, 2009)

Perhaps the glofish are to busy following each other to bother the betta. :hihi:


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Just did a water change and I lost two anubius leaves with stems, they looked melted (they were grey and soggy.) Two more stems with leaves on the same rhizome look good.

I also lost one amazon sword leaf, it was yellow with one black spot (I trimmed it out.) I'm not sure if the amazon will do good in my tank, but they were -buy one get one free- at petco, so I thought i'd try some!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Beautiful tank. You have a natural eye on placement.  Even though you are a bit overstocked, if you keep up with the water changes and feed lightly, it is doable. Just keep an eye on the betta and move it if necessary.

I used to have an amazon sword in my tank. I would frequently trim leaves that were not up to par. However, you are describing sounds like a potassium deficiency. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm. However, if you just bought the plant, it is possible it happened at the store. Keep an eye out for more signs.

Make sure to trim off the grey and soggy leaves. It could be adjusting to your tank still. However, I have never owned an anubias, so take this advice with a grain of salt.

By the way, welcome to the Planted Tank.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Nice start and great looking tank. Take it FWIW, IME of being in the aquarium fish hobby for 10+ years, I can honestly tell you that there is more to the negative effects of overstocking than just excess waste prodcution, need to increase frequency water changes, adding additional filters, feeding less, etc., Your fish will be much happier not living in squalor. The more space they have to themselves and the the less they feel they have to compete for space, the less stressed they will be be, and the happier and healthy they will be. Next to overfeeding and poor maintenance, stress is a significant killer of fish. And this will likely translate into longer life expectancy. Personally, I think it is cruel to overstock and tank and place fish in conditions where they are forced to compete for space and feel that they cannot swim outside their established territories for fear of being nipped or attacked. 

IME, the whole idea of jamming a tank with plants and assuming that this will compensate for overstocking, sounds good on paper but does not work. I tried that with a 10 gallon when my 29 gallon unplanted tank sprung a leak. And I can tell you that it does not work. You can check it out yourself. http://azdhan.googlepages.com/thelostworld

If you feel you want to use the approach of additional plants to provide filtration, what you have now just will not cut it. You need to add additional floaters like hornwort as mentioned, riccia, cardamine lyrata, etc., which generally tend to suck up ammonia and nitrates like a sponge. Again, you have to be careful here as it is all about maintaining a balance. Plants need nitrates, so if you put too many floaters in and you end up with little or no nitrates, you could be setting up conditions ripe for something like Blue Green Algae which sometimes tend to find zero nitrate conditions as favorable. In addition, adding too many floaters could result in too much light being blocked off to plants below, which again could have negative effects on growth. And IME, poor plant growth can and does contribute to algae issues. I would stick to and maintain no more than 25% floating plants.


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Thanks for the responses. Like I mentioned before, I do plan on moving at least the 4 rasboras into the 40 gal tank, That would leave 6 glofish, and the betta in the tank. (Is this still way overstocked) As far as floating plants go, I don't think that would work out because of the design of the hood filter. The filter is behind the bulb, so the back of my tank was in almost complete shadow, I remedied this by adding additional reflectors to send light to the back of the tank. I wouldn't want to block any more light. I only have about 2 watts per gallon.


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## zavikan (Jan 5, 2009)

IMHO I think thats fine. Though max.

Others will tell you thats still overstocked though. Go with your gut.

James


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

5gl is the bottom limit I give Bettas, usually 10gl, even then I leave them solitary, maybe some Otocinclus.

Why not put the Rasboras and glofish in the 40gl, and add more Rasboras? That makes more sense to me.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Edited, I thought I read 'goldfish' and wasted some time typing about them.


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

That does sound like a good idea. Right now I am just trying to keep this tank well while I plan my 40 gal. I have some great ideas for my scape. I will not be using sand again. I will post an updated pic of this tank tomorrow. It seems my background plants (amazon swords) are beginning to stretch toward the front of the tank where the light is strongest. I did manage to lose the smallest anubia to melting and the other is beginning to get brownish algae on the leaves.


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

Hi everyone! I haven't had a chance to take a new pic, but my tank is beginning to get hit with a lot of algae. There is some jelly looking green algae on the leaves of the swords, brown stubborn algae on the anubia, green algae on the wood, and what looks like iron staining on the rocks. Am I lacking circulation in the tank? 

I have the light on for 12 hours, and dose 2ml plant gro once a week. I just changed the media filter and did a water change 3 days ago :icon_conf


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

That's a little overstocked. Yeah, it will be ok for plants. You don't need CO2 for a tank that small.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

The jelly looking algae is most likely cyanobacteria (blue green algae), and is actually a photosynthetic bacteria rather than a true algae. The copper staining is brown diatoms, very common in new setups and will go away on it's own eventually. The brown, stubborn algae sounds like it could be the beginnings of black brush algae, or it could be diatoms as well if it feels slimy or dusty and wipes off easily. Also could be old green spot algae. I would only run the light for 8 or 9 hours. For the cyano, clean the filter (don't replace anything, just swish the media around in dechlorinated water), do a water change, and black the tank out completely for about 4 days, bag it up with a black trash bag and no peeking!

Edit, just read you changed the media, big no-no. Don't ever do that unless it's falling apart, it houses much of the bacteria that keeps a tank cycled. By replacing it you could have prolonged or even caused some of your current issues. Probably set back you cycle, check ammonia and nitrites. Algae of all types takes advantage of weakened biofilters and the nitrogen spikes that follow.


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## Hardwood (May 10, 2009)

What I meant to say was that I changed the Hex 5 cartridge carbon filter, I left the bio wheel. I will shorten the duration of the lights, and try and scrub off the algae on the leaves. I do hope that the brown stuff on the rocks will go away. The furry green algae on the wood looks cool, but I should probably scrub that off too huh? Are any types of algae beneficial to the tank?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Oh, good choice on double filtration then.

I like green wood, personally, if you really want it gone or it gets out of hand, it might be wise to scrub it but do it outside of the tank. I guess any algae but blue green is beneficial depending how you look at it, for fish anyway. And it consumes some nitrogen in times of crisis. Otherwise it's just ugly and ruins plants.


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