# Omg this is so stressful



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Not uncommon for plants to take a crap in a new tank but usually they bounce back. Is the tank cycling? If so, what is the ammonia level? If it's high...that could be burning the plants on top of new tank shock.


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## Woggo90 (Jan 10, 2018)

I have not got my test kit yet so i dont know the levels


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Are you adding an ammonia source? I doubt ammonia levels would be too high to cause plant burn if you aren't dumping ammonia into the tank. Your lighting looks fairly dim as well, what lights are you running? Did you treat the water in the tank with a dechlorinator? Lots of plants are sold with emersed growth, they could be adjusting to submerged conditions. They also look light more demanding plants (the stem plants), so if you're not giving them enough light/CO2/nutrients they will slowly wither away. I did notice you are only dosing excel and stability, but no other nutrients.... could be an issue there.


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## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

Not an unexpected start. As long as the roots look OK, the plants will bounce back. The red topped plant looks like cherry hedge. If so, expect a lot of leaf dropping, and then possible plant crash after several months. It’s not a truly aquatic plant, though often sold that way in pet stores. It looks cool and is typically cheap, so enjoy it for as long as you can. Perhaps consider other red plants as a future item. 

Give it time - like a month - before really worrying about the plants too much. Also, you may trial a single 6hr light run, instead of two short runs. 

If you don’t have testing for your water before adding ferts, how do you know what’s in there? No huge concern, but please consider. Stability is prized above all else, to me.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

It's not easy. Not for some of us at least. Hang in there. Maybe this will help: Darkblade's Primer. I find understanding the basics a little more to help organize my thoughts. Maybe it'll take couple reads as it's a little overwhelming to swallow at first. In time, the tank will become a stress reducer instead of an inducer --- that, or you just can't let it get to you.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

One thing I have learned and helps me reduce stress when it is not going too well, is to look at things in a different way. I stopped thinking of things that die as a loss that should worry me. You may have other hobbies that you have tried so compare the planted tank hobby with those other hobbies. When you look at it from that angle, it can help to overlook the loss of a $4 plant when compared to losing a couple $5 plugs while fishing? 
We should all want to do better but not at the expense of stressing so much that we live shorter lives! I can certainly pay for the plants I lose and it is fully offset by skipping a few trips to Starbucks or a Saturday night downtown! My wife and I often spend our "beer and cigarette money" on foolish hobbies!


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Welcome!
Patience Weedhopper. I'm not a fan of Excel as it is gluteraldehyde, a chemical sterilant used to sterilize heat sensitive medical and dental equipment...and it KILLS algae.
However, it is not unusual for plants often grown immersed to die back when submerged in the aquarium. You might consider stopping Excel and using Flourish Comprehensive, Aquarium Co-op's Easy Green, or Thrive as a fertilizer. Also, do 50% weekly water changes, especially with a new/fortified substrate.
Good Luck and keep posting.


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## Woggo90 (Jan 10, 2018)

Thanks for all the info guys!! I am using a fluval fresh and plant led light and i am dosing flourish once every other day till my test kit arrives. I will keep you guys posted on progress and am going to do my first water change this weekend


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## JusticeBeaver (Oct 28, 2017)

That's how most tanks look when they're started after a week. You're not using soil substrate so I wouldn't worry too much about ammonia at this point, but you should start measuring levels as soon as possible so you know how to schedule water changes. Once the roots start to develop then you'll start seeing new growth. Also you're a week in so you'll probably have diatoms show up soon too.


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## Woggo90 (Jan 10, 2018)

So i have done some testing my ph is7.2 on the api test kit. And ammonia is 0 are these normal? Does 0 ammonia mean my tank isnt cycling?


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## Boostr (Dec 8, 2016)

PlantedRich said:


> When you look at it from that angle, it can help to overlook the loss of a $4 plant when compared to losing a couple $5 plugs while fishing?!


Truer words have never been spoken, and that's why I never buy 12 dollar plugs:wink2:

Bump:


Woggo90 said:


> So i have done some testing my ph is7.2 on the api test kit. And ammonia is 0 are these normal? Does 0 ammonia mean my tank isnt cycling?


How are the Nitrites and Nitrates?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Woggo90 said:


> So i have done some testing my ph is7.2 on the api test kit. And ammonia is 0 are these normal? Does 0 ammonia mean my tank isnt cycling?


Sounds like time for some study of the basics of the "nitrogen cycle" as it is one of the primary things we need. I won't go far into details as it is a vast subject, but just the basics? 
Waste creates ammonia as it decays. This ammonia is a quick and certain death for fish. Too much will also harm plants. But nature has provided a way out for us as it has a set of bacteria which will grow almost automatically when the ammonia shows up. this first group converts the ammonia to nitrite which is also very harmful to fish. Nature then provides us a second group of helpers to convert nitrite to nitrate. Nitrate is okay when kept to somewhat reasonable levels and then we can remove/reduce the nitrate when we do water changes. With 50 PPM of nitrate we can do a 50% water change and assume we will then have 25 PPM in the tank if the new water is good clean water with no nitrate. 
Along the line plants will use some of this pollution but a basic understanding of what's happening will be a great value when trying to keep things going, fish alive and plants growing. 
So does 0 ammonia mean something? Depends on what is decaying, maybe the bacteria is converting it all. Or does it mean there was none there and nothing is happening and the cycle has not started. That is where we really need to do some testing and understand what the test means. Many do a "fishless cycle" to get a really nice set of bacteria started before they add fish. In this case they actually add small amounts of ammonia as food for the bacteria.


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## Dr.Q (Jan 11, 2018)

Have you added fish yet? Every tank I've had I've cycled with fish, adding them a couple days after the water has been flowing enough to let the dust settle. I personally believe it takes both plant and animal to have a genuine cycle going, with bacteria being the middle ground who transforms the conditions for both forms of life to survive and perpetuate one another. Since we're in a finite environment, we have to supplement certain things, e.g. fresh water, nutrients, and some care.


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## Woggo90 (Jan 10, 2018)

Hey guys just thought i would put up a photo of the tank two weeks in things are looking much better and i am getting my head around a few things.


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## JAMarlow (Jan 16, 2018)

Definitely looks a lot better! Did you change how you were doing things, or was it mostly just waiting for the cycle to move further along?


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Glad to hear things are looking up!


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## Woggo90 (Jan 10, 2018)

I did a 50% water change and kept the same routine. Results were overnight after the water change.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Dr.Q said:


> Have you added fish yet? Every tank I've had I've cycled with fish, adding them a couple days after the water has been flowing enough to let the dust settle. I personally believe it takes both plant and animal to have a genuine cycle going, with bacteria being the middle ground who transforms the conditions for both forms of life to survive and perpetuate one another. Since we're in a finite environment, we have to supplement certain things, e.g. fresh water, nutrients, and some care.


I'm curious if you have anything to back up the "genuine" cycle thoughts. I've cycled with fish, but I'm surprised to see someone saying it's the only way to do it properly. I think most people cycle fishless and it seems to work.


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## Woggo90 (Jan 10, 2018)

Things are going well,my ph is at 7.6 but this is normal for the tap water here my guy at the aquarium shop said their tanks are at 7.6 due to the tap water and not to worry. i do have one question ihave been testing daily and i had my ammonia level come up from 0 to 0.25, nitrite and nitrates at 0 last night, today all 0 i have 11 neon tetras and a baby albino bristlenose are these good numbers? I do have a decent amount of plants besides the small amount diatoms on the driftwood.

Do those numbers mean the tank isnt cycled?


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

PlantedRich said:


> Sounds like time for some study of the basics of the "nitrogen cycle" as it is one of the primary things we need. .



During a normal cycle bacteria is grown that converts ammonia to nitrites, then other bacteria converts the nitrites to nitrates. So during a normal cycle once you have ammonia and bacteria your ammonia is converted to nitrite. (ammonia level drops, nitrites rise) Then the nitrites are converted. (nitrites drop, nitrates raise).
If you've been testing and not measured nitrites and nitrates you're not cycled.


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## requiem (Oct 25, 2008)

If there is no source of ammonia in the tank (fish waste, food or added directly from a bottle) then your tank is not cycling . Plants don't produce any


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Woggo90 said:


> Things are going well,my ph is at 7.6 but this is normal for the tap water here my guy at the aquarium shop said their tanks are at 7.6 due to the tap water and not to worry. i do have one question ihave been testing daily and i had my ammonia level come up from 0 to 0.25, nitrite and nitrates at 0 last night, today all 0 i have 11 neon tetras and a baby albino bristlenose are these good numbers? I do have a decent amount of plants besides the small amount diatoms on the driftwood.
> 
> Do those numbers mean the tank isnt cycled?


Plants will use ammonia as their N2 source, however, I'd expect to see some nitrates in a fully cycled tank....but it may take some time. In the meantime, I'd monitor ammonia and nitrites closely.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Fish-in cycling is cruel to the fish and is unneeded. I'd agree that a tank isn't truly _established_ without animals in it, but a cycled aquarium is simply one with the nitrogen cycle established. Established aquariums have a large variety of algae, bacteria, and microorganisms, but established tanks are only needed for algae-eaters and some shrimp, most fish are fine in an aquarium that's simply cycled and stable. 

If you have any ammonia or nitrites and it's not coming from your tap water, your tank isn't cycled. You should have some nitrates unless the tank is absolutely jammed with plants. Test your tap water, see if any of the three are present, and closely monitor your ammonia and nitrites. Ammonia and nitrites should never go above 0, and nitrates are best kept at or below 20, though you'll see some debate about that number. Definitely keep them below 40.


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

In your first post, you mentioned that you were using Stability, so if you're following the directions on the bottle, you should have more than enough nitrifying bacteria going into your aquarium to handle the waste output of the small bio-load you have with ten neons and a small plecostomus. But, as others have mentioned, you should be seeing at least SOME nitrates, even if you have already established enough of a bacterial colony that the ammonia and nitrite are being converted immediately, because nitrate is the last product of the process, and, for all basic practical purposes that concern us here, nitrate is only reduced or removed from the aquarium through water changes (as mentioned before) or through use by the plants. However, unless you have a LOT of well established plants (which you don't yet), you should disregard counting on nitrate uptake by plants and focus on achieving nitrate as an end-product of a successful nitrogen cycle. As long as it isn't past its expiration date or been kept at high temperatures, the Stability should be providing enough bacteria to cover your needs until the bacteria becomes established on the surfaces inside the aquarium and inside the filter medium. As has been mentioned, watch your test results. Also, make sure that you closely follow the test kit instructions, especially the part about shaking the bottle before administering the reagents. Not doing that can skew the results.

Olskule


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## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

I’m going to disagree with Betta123 on the general statement that fish-in cycling is cruel (intentions are obviously quite positive - not asking anyone to ignore the info). I would like to perhaps modify the statement to mean that a non-maintained tank is cruel. I think we can all agree on that. 
Keep measuring, keep maintaining, things will mature and become easy - it just takes some time. 
I’ve done fishless, fish-in, seeded media, etc. setups. I’ve been successful with each by paying attention, not because of a specific instruction set.


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## Olskule (Jan 28, 2010)

Proteus01 said:


> I’m going to disagree with Betta123 on the general statement that fish-in cycling is cruel (intentions are obviously quite positive - not asking anyone to ignore the info). I would like to perhaps modify the statement to mean that a non-maintained tank is cruel. I think we can all agree on that.
> Keep measuring, keep maintaining, things will mature and become easy - it just takes some time.
> I’ve done fishless, fish-in, seeded media, etc. setups. I’ve been successful with each by paying attention, not because of a specific instruction set.


This is true, especially with the nitrifying bacteria products (and test kits) that are available today. The way some did a "fish-in cycle" many years ago went as far as tossing a few cheap fish in the tank and not doing water changes, and if they survived the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes, ok, and if they didn't, hey, just leave them in the tank to contribute to the bio-load and add that much more to the beneficial bacteria colony. Yeah, that's cruel, and entirely unnecessary, especially now, with all the products available for monitoring and boosting the developing nitrogen cycle. In theory, you could introduce the entire maximum stock of fish you have planned for the tank, and as long as you kept doing water changes and adding enough beneficial bacteria every day, it would not stress the fish at all, but that is generally not the preferred method. It is entirely reasonable to say that a "fish-in cycle" does not have to be stressful or cruel to the fish involved.

I recently did a total "reset" on my 125 gallon tank due to a BBA problem–not removing the entire hardscape, but pulling the fish, plants and snails, then running bleach water through the entire system, filters and all. After bleaching the system for a while, I emptied and filled it a few times, added water conditioner and replanted it. Needless to say, the bacterial colony (and, hopefully, the BBA) was non-existent at that point. I let it run several days, added Stability, and yesterday I placed a 6" plecostomus in there to keep the algae bloom and biofilm on the hardscape under control and help get things back on track bacterially. We're talking about a 6" fish in 100 or so actual gallons, and beneficial bacteria added regularly, so I seriously doubt he'll notice any nitrogen-related issues at all. When I'm convinced that the BBA has been successfully eradicated, I'll start adding fish slowly, and adding more Stability as I do. In essence, that will be a "fish-in cycle", but I can see no ethical problem with it. It is simply a matter of caring enough to take precautions.

Olskule


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Betta132 said:


> Fish-in cycling is cruel to the fish and is unneeded.


Fish-in cycling in a fish only tank is old school and could be cruel if done improperly. Been in the hobby 50+ years and in the old days we knew little about the N2 cycle, but knew enough to add fish slowly and do significant water changes.
These days, plants buffer the ammonia so you can start a planted tank with a few fish with no worries....oh you still need to monitor ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates and be prepared to do water changes as/if necessary....But it can be done with no harm. AND if you add some form of BB (bottled or better still from a healthy, established tank) the cycle can basically be instant!


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

requiem said:


> If there is no source of ammonia in the tank (fish waste, food or added directly from a bottle) then your tank is not cycling . Plants don't produce any


They will help cycle the tank if you leave some of the decaying plant matter in the tank. I have done this many times. A fishless cycle takes a tad longer, but you are not needlessly burning the gills of any creatures.


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## Woggo90 (Jan 10, 2018)

Tanks is all good very happy with how its going


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