# Dirting a tank



## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

There are different schools of thought on this topic. Whether it's the best or not depends on whom you talk to. But my tanks are all dirt tanks 

My first dirt tank was my 75 gal. Also the biggest tank I ever had lol. 
I threw in the dirt, caped it with play sand, added some water just to get everyting wet. i.e. water level just as high layer of substrate.
Then I planted.
finally filled it up.

It was that simple. I lost fishes at first as I did not wait long enough for nitrites to read 0.

The tank is just short of a year old. 

I think it's a must try


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm really considering it  I also really love the idea of being able to use natural gravel. What kind of dirt is the best to use? And is it really messy and easy to stir up the dirt?

Also if I did go this route, I have a lot of left over Seachem Flourish tabs. Could I add them in as well or is that not necessary?


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## xmpjx (May 31, 2015)

Lots of people will say miracle grow organic choice potting mix is the best, but really any organic soil with no added fertilizers or anything is good. 

The only time I have found it messy is when I'm pulling up plants. Other than that I haven't found much difference in regards to mess between soil and just gravel/other substrate. 

If you have really heavy root feeding plants you could put the tabs under those plants to give them a boost. Other than that, they are not really needed IMO. 

If you choose to dirt, I hope you enjoy it! I tried it on a 10g, I'm now dirting a 29g


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## HDBenson (Jan 26, 2015)

My main soil tank a few months ago


Same tank about five weeks ago


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## Fishumms (Apr 21, 2010)

xmpjx said:


> Lots of people will say miracle grow organic choice potting mix is the best, but really any organic soil with no added fertilizers or anything is good.
> 
> The only time I have found it messy is when I'm pulling up plants. Other than that I haven't found much difference in regards to mess between soil and just gravel/other substrate.
> 
> ...



I have to agree with this completely. I've being doing "dirted" tanks only for the past 4 years and I've had no problem. I think they just take more patience at the beginning, you have to really wait to add fish.


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## Jaxfisher (Jun 2, 2013)

How long before fish can be added? What is the best measure of when they can be added?


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

After the tank cycles and water stabilizes.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Jaxfisher said:


> How long before fish can be added? What is the best measure of when they can be added?


Make sure nitrites goes back down to 0 after it spikes. As I said above, I did not and it did cost me a few dead fishes.


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## Jaxfisher (Jun 2, 2013)

Normally when I set up a new tank I use a seeded filter, partial water, rocks & wood from a cycled tank. Will this make a difference and help with lessening the nitrite spikes?


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## HDBenson (Jan 26, 2015)

In my experience the biggest mistake in soil based tanks besides a lack of patience is not planting HEAVY from the get go. Also, too high of lighting. I find that planting heavy, giving the plants about a week to get settled and then upping the lighting a smidge really helps things to get going. Siesta lighting schedule really helps in a soil based tank as well.


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## xmpjx (May 31, 2015)

Adding seeded media, gravel, etc. could help a little, but the soil has some changes and its own little thing to do when going from dry or moist to being completely submerged. I found it took a couple extra weeks compared to my previous non-dirted aquariums for all numbers to be good.

This is just my experience though.


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

not to hijack this thread but im planning on tearing down my low tech 55g that has black diamond blasting sand and useing dirt to. ill put soil first then cap it with the black diamond. can anybody tell me how much organic miracle grow potting soil to buy?


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

gmb225 said:


> not to hijack this thread but im planning on tearing down my low tech 55g that has black diamond blasting sand and useing dirt to. ill put soil first then cap it with the black diamond. can anybody tell me how much organic miracle grow potting soil to buy?


Roughly an inch. that's what I do.


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

Mariostg said:


> Roughly an inch. that's what I do.


how many bags would that take?

and does this mean i dont need to use root tabs anymore?

also how many inches of sand should i put on top of the dirt?


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

gmb225 said:


> how many bags would that take?
> 
> and does this mean i dont need to use root tabs anymore?
> 
> also how many inches of sand should i put on top of the dirt?


Yeah, I suggest you start your own thread if you are considering setting up a dirt tank. But for now, assuming your tanks is 48 X 13 inches and you want 1 inch of dirt, I would estimate 10 liters (48*13*1*2.54^3/1000). And that depends how much sifting you might do if any. I did not.

Can't speak for root tabs, never used them, and tank(s) have been up for about one year. I'm low tech, don't use CO2 and my 20 inches amazon sword is rather doing fine.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

So I'm assuming by this that even when using cycled filter media, it will not be safe to add fish for some time?


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Blackheart said:


> So I'm assuming by this that even when using cycled filter media, it will not be safe to add fish for some time?


I say it would be risky. The media may be cycled, but it may noy be able to efficiently handle a spike. It's best to monitor the parameters. NH3 and NO2 aren't appreciated at all by fishes...


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

Jaxfisher said:


> Normally when I set up a new tank I use a seeded filter, partial water, rocks & wood from a cycled tank. Will this make a difference and help with lessening the nitrite spikes?


It should help, but you don't want spikes! Very little of the nitrifying bacteria are present in the water column, so most of it will be on the filter, decorations, plants, rock and wood assuming it came from an established tank. 

Do you have a water test kit? Test your water parameters! Lightly stock or do more water changes.



gmb225 said:


> how many bags would that take?
> 
> and does this mean i dont need to use root tabs anymore?
> 
> also how many inches of sand should i put on top of the dirt?


Depending on the size of the bag...it should be 1 bag. The bags I have are 32 dry quarts, or 35L so you should have plenty if you got that size.
You shouldn't need root tabs, that's what the dirt is for.
1.5-2" of sand as a cap.



Blackheart said:


> So I'm assuming by this that even when using cycled filter media, it will not be safe to add fish for some time?


I think the best option is to just test your water. If you were doing a fish tank (Gravel, water, plants) then you'd be fine with just a seeded filter, decorations and lightly stocking. The soil adds a lot of organic matter to the equation that will be breaking down and leaching ammonia into the water. The bacteria that is present on the hardscape and filter needs a chance to adjust and multiply in it's new environment.


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## jmelvin (Aug 11, 2014)

@BlackHeart coming from from a first time 55g dirt tanker. I used miracle grow organic soil, about two inches in some spots. I used the whole 32qt bag. Capped with an inch of eco-complete I had in the tank already. I saved about 25g of "seeded" tank water and planted heavily. I waited about a month before adding an fish. I wanted to make sure it was safe before adding my GBR's.

What I experienced was a bad brown algae outbreak. My fault for not planting heavy enough. The growth has been amazing. I have not started adding any ferts yet. I run my lights from sunrise to sunset with a 2 hour break midday.


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

well to answer my own question...i bought 1 34 quart bag and dirted my tank yesturday. fish are doing fine but the water is real cloudy for now. only used 1/3 of the bag of potting mix.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

gmb225 said:


> well to answer my own question...i bought 1 34 quart bag and dirted my tank yesturday. fish are doing fine but the water is real cloudy for now. only used 1/3 of the bag of potting mix.


You got me wondering here. You put the fishes already in the dirted tank? Aren't you considering ammonia and nitrites jumps? Or maybe I missed something.


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

gmb225 said:


> well to answer my own question...i bought 1 34 quart bag and dirted my tank yesturday. fish are doing fine but the water is real cloudy for now. only used 1/3 of the bag of potting mix.


That's the kind of daring that makes aquarists cowboys in KY. Good luck and keep an eye on your water parameters!


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

yes i did. i know there will be a spike but the tank is cycled and has a good filter. i do 50% water changes twice a week. I will pray to the lord for a good outcome!


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

jmelvin said:


> I have not started adding any ferts yet.


I thought you didn't need to add any ferts when dirting a tank?


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## xmpjx (May 31, 2015)

You don't have to, some people do. There are lots of people that add DIY root tabs before capping/planting or add some after a while to supplement any nutrients the plants have used up. Which could be useful of you have really heavy root feeders.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Blackheart said:


> I thought you didn't need to add any ferts when dirting a tank?


It's more or less like a house plant. Many people add fert to the soil. In a tank, fert can be fish food. As the soild gets used up (and how long does that take, your guess is as good as mine), fish food replenishes the nutrients.

The only "chemical" fertilizer I add is K2SO4 and iron. I don't use root tabs, and its a big debate whether or not heavy root feaders need it. There is at least on recent thread here on this topic. 

My amazon sword is 20 inches high and just as wide. it was smaller than a Sagittaria Subulata when I put it in the tank. I remember because I placed the amazon behind that plant and I could barely see the amazon. All this to say that I don't use root tabs. Would it do better with root tabs? Maybe.


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## Jaxfisher (Jun 2, 2013)

As I understand it, use 1-1.5 inches of dirt, topped with 1.5-2" of sand? Seems like it would be hard to keep the plants in such a shallow substrate. I currently have Tahitian Moon in many of my tanks. Can I use this as the "sand topper"?


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Jaxfisher said:


> As I understand it, use 1-1.5 inches of dirt, topped with 1.5-2" of sand? Seems like it would be hard to keep the plants in such a shallow substrate. I currently have Tahitian Moon in many of my tanks. Can I use this as the "sand topper"?


I used 1 inch dirt, .75 to 1 inch sand for my 75 gallon. The amazon sword is not complaining. The sagittaria subulata spreaded like there is no tomorrow. I gave up trying to limit the spread. The smaller the cap, the thinner it should be. 2 inches sand seem thick to me, but someone will say otherwise.


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## HDBenson (Jan 26, 2015)

I agree with Maristog regarding depth of cap.. two inches is a pretty good barrier especially for plants with out extensive roots. My cap depth in my tanks range from 0.5-2" depending on the plants and soil depth... for the proverbial "heavy root feeders" I give them a little more substrate(1-2") between the soil since they have a more complex root system. Stems/carpeting/Anubias(.5-1").


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

So I should be fine just using one bag of potting soil for a 55 gallon tank? And to my knowledge, about an 1 inch-1.5 inches of a gravel cap?

Wouldn't the process be a little easier if you just soaked the dirt first in a big container before adding it to the tank?

And also in terms of gravel which I will be using, not sand... Would it be better to use a smaller sized gravel? I'm debating about possibly using Peace River gravel which is really small or if I want to go with just plain natural black gravel. Unless the growth is great either way and doesn't make a big difference, to which then I'll probably just go with the black gravel


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## xmpjx (May 31, 2015)

I have not added dry soil to my aquarium, I always add water until it is the consistency of pudding. I find it easier to work with and judge how thick the layer is, it also decreases the amount of bubbles that come up when filling.

The type of cap, in my opinion is just personal preference. I've seen people use the multicolored large gravel, natural gravel, medium - very fine gravel and different sizes/types of sand. All with good results. Choose what you want and will be happy with


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Wet your mud so that it has just enough consistency to prevent the cap from sinking in when you add it. Too munch water will create a mess. When planting I find it easier to start with the shortes ones. The long ones get in the way. Keep some cap aside to cover further the planted stem. Sometimes that helps.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Alright cool  I've looked at different places and all I can find is Miracle Gro Natures Cafe Organic Potting Mix... is this the same thing and can I use this?


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

so i did this to my tank 3 days ago. noticing some melting of some leaves and stems. is this to be expected? have done 2 50% water changes cause my water was brown.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Why are you hijacking my thread when you have one of your own lol


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Blackheart said:


> Why are you hijacking my thread when you have one of your own lol


I made that observation on post 16... 



Blackheart said:


> Alright cool  I've looked at different places and all I can find is Miracle Gro Natures Cafe Organic Potting Mix... is this the same thing and can I use this?


My understanding is that Miracle grow organic compost potting mix is discontinued. I believe it has been replaced by something, not sure why. There is a thread somewhere.

In any case, a top soil that does not contain any added fertilizer will do. Stay away from potting mixes. They are overfertilized for our purpose.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Hmm... Not sure what to do then! Because that's all I can find around here so far. Even at Home Depot! :icon_conf So as long as it's soil and not potting mix it will suffice? Is organic better as well? Also would two 25 pound bags of gravel be sufficient for capping?


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## jmelvin (Aug 11, 2014)

Use this if you can find it. It worked great for me. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7979857

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

The MG Nature's Care is very similar to the MGOC.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

jmelvin said:


> Use this if you can find it. It worked great for me.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7979857
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


Odd as another person told me to stay away from potting mixes.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Potting mixes means those that contain perlite or vermiculite or agged fertilizers. Normally organic potting mix are ok... it's supposedly organic. Read the labels.
Terminology can get confusing.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

So the Miracle Grow NC Organic should work just fine then?


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## jmelvin (Aug 11, 2014)

I sifted mine to remove large pieces. Soaked it and dried it a couple of times then added to the tank. Cycled for a month with plants. I have high light and co2, but no algae outbreaks. Plants are going crazy. I do 50% water changes with RO. 

This is just after a major trim.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

Blackheart said:


> So the Miracle Grow NC Organic should work just fine then?


Yes.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

And about how many bags of gravel do you guys think would be sufficient? I will probably buy two twenty-five pound bags of black gravel.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

See posts 29 and 30 about thickness. Thickness roughly goes with grain size. Figure out the dimensions of the tank and make te calculation volume wise. There is no real hard rule.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Oh I see. I only asked because I was wondering if that would have been enough to form a good cap of about an inch or so


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Could I use Nature's Cafe Organic Garden Soil or does it have to be potting mix?


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

Blackheart said:


> Alright cool  I've looked at different places and all I can find is Miracle Gro Natures Cafe Organic Potting Mix... is this the same thing and can I use this?


Yes, it's very close to the same thing. See thread about Natures Care for product details and images. 



Blackheart said:


> So the Miracle Grow NC Organic should work just fine then?


Yes.



Blackheart said:


> Could I use Nature's Cafe Organic Garden Soil or does it have to be potting mix?


Yes. You can use Nature's Care Potting Mix.


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## MJB13 (Jun 30, 2015)

gmb225 said:


> how many bags would that take?
> 
> and does this mean i dont need to use root tabs anymore?
> 
> also how many inches of sand should i put on top of the dirt?


48x13x1=624 inches squared, divided by 1728 square inches (cubic foot)=.36 cubic feet or 10.8 quarts. But that is working with dry soil in a pot, so it may not be 100% accurate, so buy a 16 quart bag to make sure you have enough.
Resist the urge to put in more than 1".
With the extra dirt, plant some Petunias!


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