# Green hair algae chaos



## neonsoxx (Nov 16, 2018)

This is my first time posting here but I am about to lose my mind with what used to be my favorite tank, so bear with the long post. 

Background: I have a 29 gallon tall freshwater low tech aquarium that is pretty heavily planted. Dirt substrate capped with sand, 30% water changes once a week or every two weeks. Lighting is one Finnex Planted Plus fixture. It has been running for over a year with no major problems until now. I believed I royally screwed up by shocking my tank in two ways: first, I wanted to start dosing my regular fertilizer Seachem flourish daily because I heard that smaller daily doses help plants more. However, I miscalculated and began overdosing my tank daily for at least a week if not two. Then, once I got an outbreak of staghorn algae (from overdosing, I’m sure), I started spot treating with seachem excel. It worked in getting rid of the staghorn algae, and I continued to dose it daily to the whole tank as it was suggested in helping plant growth. Then everything crashed. 

I’ve gone through so many types of algae in the past month and the tank is now carpeted in green hair algae. Once I realized I was overdosing flourish I stopped, did a big 50% water change, and went back to my once a week dosing method. I also stopped using excel because my healthy swarm of jungle val died off, as I expected, and also because I’ve read mixed opinions on if it helps or makes the situation worse, especially with low tech tanks. I figured it was too much of a shock to my tank so I wanted to go back to square one, but I can’t get rid of the green hair algae no matter how much I siphon and pluck. Please please give me some insight on what to do next. Should I continue dosing excel? Should I stop dosing ferts altogether until the algae goes away? Should I do water changes every 2-3 days?

Stocked with 2 nerite snails, 2 otocinclus cats, 1 baby angelfish, 7 neon tetras, and 4 white finned rosy tetras. Parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate. I don’t have a test to test for phosphates yet. I started the black out method today because I’m desperate and don’t know what else to do.

Forgot to add, I’ve been doing big 40-50% water changes every week in order to tackle as much algae as I can and to get excess nutrients out. Please tell me if this is making the problem worse since I don’t use RO water.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

You have probably shocked your plants with the dramatic change in routine. They will take some time, perhaps a few weeks, to recover. In the meantime, algae will gladly step in to take advantage of the plants' suffering. Returning to your routine should eventually beat back the algae.

Since you know what works (your previous routine), I think you are right in trying to return to it. It also sounds like you know how much you have dosed in error. If you do know this, you can simply calculate how much you remove with each water change. Doing a 50% w/c every few days is fine until you reach your former levels of nutrients. It may help to use this calculator to determine what you may have overdosed:
Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator

If it is hair algae, Excel can kill it. I use Excel at 3ml/gal , once a week (if needed) to kill hair algae. I would suggest your starting with 1-2ml/gal and increase it the following week, if needed. Be sure to oxygenate as much as possible during dosing (heavily rippling the surface is best), as Excel will remove oxygen from the water in proportion to the amount dosed. It is also better if you can keep pH below 7.0 the day you dose it. After the one dose, you will see the hair algae turning red in 2-3 days, indicating death. Other forms of algae are not as susceptible.


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## neonsoxx (Nov 16, 2018)

Thank you for your reply. 
But if introducing excel into my tank was one of the things that shocked it, especially my vals, do you think that would cause my plants to take longer getting back to normal? Also that seems like a huge overdose considering I was only dosing 2.5mL once a day for my whole tank, 1-2 mL per gallon seems like overkill to me but this is also my first time using it so I’m not an expert. I’m worried that the more my vals melt the easier it’ll be for algae to take over.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

neonsoxx said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> But if introducing excel into my tank was one of the things that shocked it, especially my vals, do you think that would cause my plants to take longer getting back to normal? Also that seems like a huge overdose considering I was only dosing 2.5mL once a day for my whole tank, 1-2 mL per gallon seems like overkill to me but this is also my first time using it so I’m not an expert. I’m worried that the more my vals melt the easier it’ll be for algae to take over.


The Excel didn’t de-stabilize your plants (other than the vals), it was the overdosing of ferts (assuming you are sure about that connection) that did that. Excel is beneficial to plants, other than the most simple species such as vals, some mosses and anacharis and, usually, the vals can be trained to accept Excel on a daily dosing regimen starting with about half of Seachems recommended daily dosing and slowly building it up to their recommeded dose over several weeks. Longer-term, I would try dosing Excel according to Seachem’s directions. The Planted Plus, I believe, is kind of on the high side of lighting and, without CO2 injection, may be a large part of the algae issue. Although Excel can’t substitute for CO2, it does help a lot. 

Excel will damage/kill vals and anacharis when dosed regularly. It’s the constant pounding that does it, not a one-time dose. I have single-dosed 3 ml/gal when I had anacharis and it had no effect upon it. When I dosed it daily, the anacharis was gone in about two weeks.

You actually have about 21 gallons of water in the tank, assuming you have roughly 3” of substrate. So, at 1 ml/gal, this would be 21 ml of Excel in a single dose. I’d wait a week since the last time that you used the Excel before doing the 1 ml/gal dose. Once dosed, wait for the hair algae to turn red in a few days. If it doesn’t, and you’re sure it is hair algae, increase the dose and do it once about a week later.

If you can’t get everything under control after 2-3 weeks, start a new thread detailing the problems.


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

Deanna said:


> The Excel didn’t de-stabilize your plants (other than the vals), it was the overdosing of ferts (assuming you are sure about that connection) that did that. Excel is beneficial to plants, other than the most simple species such as vals, some mosses and anacharis and, usually, the vals can be trained to accept Excel on a daily dosing regimen starting with about half of Seachems recommended daily dosing and slowly building it up to their recommeded dose over several weeks. Longer-term, I would try dosing Excel according to Seachem’s directions. The Planted Plus, I believe, is kind of on the high side of lighting and, without CO2 injection, may be a large part of the algae issue. Although Excel can’t substitute for CO2, it does help a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am sorry but I believe you are way off in your calculations. There’s no way Excel should be dosed at anything close to 1 ml per gallon. I think you mean to recommend per 10 gal. I dose about 8 ML daily in a 40B.


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

neonsoxx said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> But if introducing excel into my tank was one of the things that shocked it, especially my vals, do you think that would cause my plants to take longer getting back to normal? Also that seems like a huge overdose considering I was only dosing 2.5mL once a day for my whole tank, 1-2 mL per gallon seems like overkill to me but this is also my first time using it so I’m not an expert. I’m worried that the more my vals melt the easier it’ll be for algae to take over.




Please do not dose at 1-2 mL per gallon, that is off by a factor of 10.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

neonsoxx said:


> Stocked with 2 nerite snails, 2 otocinclus cats, 1 baby angelfish, 7 neon tetras, and 4 white finned rosy tetras. *Parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate. *I don’t have a test to test for phosphates yet. I started the black out method today because I’m desperate and don’t know what else to do.


Zero nitrates? What do you think the plants are using for fertilizer?

Macro fertilizers are nitrates and phosphates. If you are feeding your fish moderately and not doing large water changes, there may be enough macros without having to supplement. OTH, if you do a large water change, clean the filters more frequently, there will be less macros in the water.

When the plants are not doing well, algae will take over.

You either need to be more careful with your water changes, or fertilize your plants. The root feeders in soil may be able to survive without good water column fertz, but the soil may become depleted.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Doc7 said:


> I am sorry but I believe you are way off in your calculations.



nope.. but there are some risks...
"Normal" Excel style doses won't do jack.. though one should "acclimate" up to the larger doses..

and yes, Vals are apparently susceptible to these levels..but not so much when one increases dosing slowly..



Doc7 said:


> Please do not dose at 1-2 mL per gallon, that is off by a factor of 10.


2ml/gallon "I" don't recommend but somewhere a bit south of 1ml/gal has been proven fine..for the most part.

https://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/pla...lic-enemy-1-black-brush-algae-how-fight-2286/



> 1) Excel Dosing
> -Tank outbreak, 1.5ml per gallon every second day, over a period of 10-14 days. Dose before Lights out, so it doesn't break down from light (some say 2.5 ml, but you risk your shrimpies). Some do 2.5ml first day and 1.5ml from then on.
> -Spot treating, 1.5ml per gallon in a container (prevents over dosing the tank), and syringe/baster it on affected areas. I recommend filter being off 30 minutes
> -misting, 1.5ml/gallon in the spray bottle, drain out tank to needed level, or remove piece you are spraying, and spray away, finish you water change.
> ...


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## Mafkees (Nov 14, 2018)

If you are at all concerned about whatever is in your water column right now, a 90-95% water change (just enough to keep your wet friends swimming without hurting themselves) is in order to do a full reset. Keep in mind dilution is not that great when doing 50% water changes. Then proceed with your previous routine.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Doc7 said:


> I am sorry but I believe you are way off in your calculations. There’s no way Excel should be dosed at anything close to 1 ml per gallon. I think you mean to recommend per 10 gal. I dose about 8 ML daily in a 40B.


As @jeffkrol mentioned, this is not a typo. I did mean 1-3 ml/gal. You are right that Seachem has their own recommendations for use as a carbon supplement, but they are prohibited, by law, from any mention of Excel as an algaecide. A single dose of 1-3 ml/gal is safe provided the other preparations I mentioned are followed. Best to start with 1 ml/gal and increase a week later. Emphasis is on ONE dose, not daily dosing. I can easily dose 3 ml /gal, with no previous build-up to it, and have done so for years. I don't do it every week, only when hair algae makes it's occasional appearance.


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## neonsoxx (Nov 16, 2018)

ChrisX said:


> neonsoxx said:
> 
> 
> > Stocked with 2 nerite snails, 2 otocinclus cats, 1 baby angelfish, 7 neon tetras, and 4 white finned rosy tetras. *Parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate. *I don’t have a test to test for phosphates yet. I started the black out method today because I’m desperate and don’t know what else to do.
> ...


Yes, in order to get excess nutrients out of the water I’ve been doing 40-50% water changes every week and I usually rinse my filter media in the old water at the same time. However, I do dose seachem flourish one day after the water change as listed in my original post. Can’t tell you why nitrates were 0, that’s just what the test showed.

I guess my biggest concern now is deciding what to do about the excel and whether to use it at all. Part of me wants to play it safe and go back to my original fertilizer routine of just flourish, but part of me wants to see if excel helps my plants since the finnex planted plus fixture is higher output than my very first LED was. 

I’m thinking after I’m done with the blackout I’ll try spot dosing/fogging the hair algae with excel and see if it starts dying. I’d just hate to have to rip out my whole jungle of vals that was the focal point of the tank.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

neonsoxx said:


> Can’t tell you why nitrates were 0, that’s just what the test showed.


Nitrate test kits are notoriously difficult to read and some are downright misleading. For reading levels lower than about 30ppm, I’ve found the Salifert test kit to be most reliable and the API kit to be the most difficult to shake and read (no shaking with the Salifert kit). You may want to take another reading and be very diligent in following the instructions, if you don’t use it often. As @ChrisX said, having a sufficient level of nitrate is critical. Seems hard to believe that you have zero between your dosing and your fish.



neonsoxx said:


> I guess my biggest concern now is deciding what to do about the excel and whether to use it at all.
> 
> I’d just hate to have to rip out my whole jungle of vals that was the focal point of the tank.


The single, weekly, dose won’t hurt your vals. Daily dosing will, unless you build up to it gradually. You have several opinions on using Excel. You’ll just have to decide which approach you think is best for your tank. You may not need regular use of Excel for carbon supplementation if - IF - things were going well before (see below).



neonsoxx said:


> the finnex planted plus fixture is higher output than my very first LED was.


When you said that your tank has been “running for over a year with no major problems until now” and then you imply that the Finnex is only recently added, I wonder how long it took for the algae to appear after the Finnex was added. Hair algae very typically appears under high light with no CO2 injection. The Finnex may be simply too much light for your tank. 

If you have too much light, and don’t inject CO2, you will get algae and your plants will struggle. You will also need to increase your fert dosing to make sure nothing becomes limited, but it won’t compensate for the lack of CO2.

Good luck with the blackout - I’ve never seen one that worked. The algae will come bouncing right back. Better would be to cut your photoperiod down or dim the Finnex until you see the tank stabilizing.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

If anyone reading this doses much more than 1ml/gal, keep a close eye on your fish.

Trust me, an overdose can wipe out an entire tank of livestock, so be careful. 

This stuff can be useful, but it can also be deadly. 

I'd just hate for someone to be frustrated with algae, dump way too much in, then be sorry.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

neonsoxx said:


> Yes, in order to get excess nutrients out of the water I’ve been doing 40-50% water changes every week and I usually rinse my filter media in the old water at the same time. However, I do dose seachem flourish one day after the water change as listed in my original post. Can’t tell you why nitrates were 0, that’s just what the test showed.
> 
> I guess my biggest concern now is deciding what to do about the excel and whether to use it at all. Part of me wants to play it safe and go back to my original fertilizer routine of just flourish, but part of me wants to see if excel helps my plants since the finnex planted plus fixture is higher output than my very first LED was.
> 
> I’m thinking after I’m done with the blackout I’ll try spot dosing/fogging the hair algae with excel and see if it starts dying. I’d just hate to have to rip out my whole jungle of vals that was the focal point of the tank.


I would recommend the following:

Flourish (micros)
Excel CO2 booster (glut, CO2 substitute)
??? (macros)

You still need a source of macros. Seachem sells these as liquids (Nitrogen, Phosphorus). Or you can buy these from any of the site sponsors who sell dry fertz.

I have experience using glut in a med/high light low tech tank. When plant mass was low, fish food provided adequate nitrogen/phosphorus, but as plant mass increased, the tank crashed. 

Anything higher than medium light in a low tech tank will be difficult to juggle. Best solution when you start out is to raise the light a few inches higher (if its not adjustable) and when the tank is doing ok, lower it to increase the light.

You cant just "add more light" in a low tech tank and expect everything to be ok. Part of your problem is that the soil may have depleted and stopped working to offset the lack of water column ferts. If I had to guess, the same thing happend to you that happened to my first low tech tank.. Everything was ok because the macros were provided by fish, but then plant mass increased and you did a big water change, and this shocked the plants because there were no macros.


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## neonsoxx (Nov 16, 2018)

ChrisX said:


> I would recommend the following:
> 
> Flourish (micros)
> Excel CO2 booster (glut, CO2 substitute)
> ...


Okay, so I think I have this figured out. Just spot treated the tank with about 3-3.5mL of Excel, which is only slightly more than my normal daily dose would be. If it comes back just as strong, I’ll spot treat again in a week and then will start daily dosing starting out small and then increasing slowly to not shock my vals. 

So, I’ll need to start dosing phosphorous and nitrogen separately? What about potassium? I was hoping flourish was good as a comprehensive fertilizer, however I have heard of other people dosing macros on the side. Anyone have recommendations for a better fertilizer that’s more comprehensive so I don’t have to use three or more bottles? I’m not keen on switching but if there’s something better out there I’m open to suggestions.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

neonsoxx said:


> So, I’ll need to start dosing phosphorous and nitrogen separately? What about potassium? I was hoping flourish was good as a comprehensive fertilizer, however I have heard of other people dosing macros on the side. Anyone have recommendations for a better fertilizer that’s more comprehensive so I don’t have to use three or more bottles? I’m not keen on switching but if there’s something better out there I’m open to suggestions.


Buy the dry compounds you need for macros NilocG.com
You can mix all macros in the same bottle..
This way less expensive than buying all of the seachem bottles.

Flourish is not very "comprehensive"
You can still use it as your micro fert as many others still do.


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## Raymonds (Nov 22, 2018)

Either or a combination of too many hrs or too intense on the light.
I had very low growth with one T8 bulb so I added yet one more bulb. After about three weeks the entire tank was covered with hair algae.
You didn't mention your light set up. Bring the light further up from where it is now or put them on a timer. I had two fixtures and two timers.
I think that the experimenting part is one of the best parts of this hobby. You must lower the light to reduce algae. How much is the experimenting part.


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## rvales (Apr 19, 2014)

I had that same issue with so much hair algae I thought I was going to lose all my plants. I am no expert, but what worked for me was I physically pulled off all the hair algae that I could. I maintained the same 50% water change every week. I kept up with giving the plants the same Macro / Micro nutrients and CO2 that I always have done. The difference is I added 2 bristle nose pleco fish and 6 Mystery snails. They are both prolific algae eaters. In 2 weeks' time the hair algae was gone. FYI: I have a 60g cube, I use CO2 with a CO2 reactor and I use a fertilizer package that I got from green leaf aquarium dot com. From what I read in the past you need to keep the nutrients going in the tank, so the plants are well feed. As long as the plants get all their nutrients, they will out eat the algae, so the algae will eventually starve. I hope this works for you or anyone reading this.


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