# The fun part: Help me with 40g breeder stocking ideas!



## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

This will be my first tank (so nothing too complicated, nothing that needs live food).

Fish I know I want:
8-10 Cardinal Tetras (or Rummy Nose Tetras, can't decide)
6 Sterbai Corys (is this a good number for a school of Corys?)
2 German Blue Rams

I think two species of schooling fish is enough, so I'm looking for a few more species of fish that I can get one/a few of and increase the diversity of my tank. I don't want to overstock obviously but I want a vibrant community tank.

All of these fish are fairly small (3 inches or less). Are there slightly larger fish I could add that would be 4 or 5 inches or is that too big for this tank? Maybe some sort of guarami? Black Veil Angel? Both? Would I want singles of these species or more than 1? I also like the look of rainbowfish.

Suggestions welcome!


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I would definitely increase the size of the schools - you get to see better behaviors that way. As for larger fish, a pearl gourami could be nice, and can do well in small groups too. Angels can be iffy with tetras.


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## MadRiverPat (May 3, 2013)

I would agree that you can increase the size of both schools. 8-10 sterbai would be nice and you could easily do 20 cardinals/rummynose/etc.

from my own experience with cardinals in a 40 breeder, I think you will find that rummynose may "school" better than cardinals. stick with smaller rainbows. A lot of larger ones will outgrow your tank pretty quickly.


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## yando (Jun 10, 2013)

+1 on the pearl gourami


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## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions. Like I said I am new so I don't have a great handle on stocking levels for this size tank (although I have read that a 40g breeder can be stocked more than usual because of the dimensions).

I was pretty surprised to see just how many tetras and corys people thought I should get. It just seems like a lot of fish. Does the fact that they are schooling sort of exempt them from the 1 inch per gallon rule (which I know is outdated)? Another question, will the size difference of cardinal tetras vs rummy nose tetras (1" vs 2") effect potential stocking of other fish? 20 rummy nose tetras is 40 inches of fish right there! Add in 8 Sterba Corys and that is another 24 inches of fish. Can I really have this many fish in these schools?

I researched a lot today and I've fallen in love with rainbowfish.

I think right now my dream tank would be:

*15-20* Cardinal or Rummy Nose Tetras (Still skeptical of having 20. I like the cardinal looks better but want the schooling of the rummy nose...)
*8* Sterba Corys
*2* GBR
*4* Boesemani Rainbowfish (or 2 Boesemani, 2 other rainbowfish)
*1* Angel (conflicting reports of compatibility with tetras. Maybe would have the benefit of enforcing tighter schooling?)

Is this overstocked?

I've gotten conflicting sources for how large a Boesemani can get. A lot say 3 inches (like liveaquaria), but some say 4 inches and some even say 5 or 6 inches. Could my tank hold a small school of them? Four seems like the lowest number for these schooling fish.

The idea of a school of different rainbows also appeals to me and again I see conflicting opinions on whether that would work. I like Boesemani the most so if I must have one species I would prefer that one.

Again I'd like to keep the tank as diverse as possible (hence wanting multiple rainbow species).


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## treben (Jun 26, 2013)

It's hard to recommend boesemanis for that size tank. If you really want rainbowfish then I believe you would be better suited with Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish ( praecox). Rainbows are active swimmers and prefer a tank that is longer.

In terms of stocking, I believe that with your last list you would be overstocked, especially as the fish grow. I've always felt that it's better to stock alittle on the lighter side so you can avoid some of the issues that come along with overstocking like organic buildup, which can lead to water quality issues, algae and more maintenance. If it was me i'd do something more along the lines of 10-15 tetras, 5-6 corys, the gbrs and angel.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

GrumpyGills said:


> *1* Angel (conflicting reports of compatibility with tetras. Maybe would have the benefit of enforcing tighter schooling?)


Angels with tetra depends on the ages of the fish. A young angel introduced to a tank with established adult tetras should be fine. I'm not sure it would help with schooling though, as the tetras would become accustomed to the angel in such a small space.

Also I agree with forgoing the rainbows. They prefer harder water than the other fish you listed, and really do better in larger tanks. If you do really want to go with rainbows dwarf neon rainbows would most likely be the best option.


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## MadRiverPat (May 3, 2013)

While I think you could do boesemanis in your tank, due to their large adult size (I've seen some that were easily 4") and active nature I wouldn't suggest adding them to a community tank that is smaller than a 75 or a 90. Like treben suggested, praecox are a better option if you really want to go the rainbow route. 

When I initially suggested stocking levels, I was under the impression that you were sticking with just cardinals, sterbai, gbr's and maybe a single angel or gourami. If you are looking to add another school (such as rainbows), you'll have to cut the school sizes down to your original post. 

15 cardinals, 8 sterbai, 2 GBR, 1 angel would be a reasonable stock and leaves room for something new down the line.

If you wanted to do some rainbows I would stick with stocking similar to your original plan and minus the angelfish. This still wouldn't be fully stocked, but you'll have a less room for anything else you might find you like. 

10-15 cardinals, 6-8 sterbai, 2 GBR, 6 praecox rainbows


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## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

Well, I wasn't planning on wanting another schooling fish, I wanted a couple larger centerpiece fish. I thought I was limited to Guarami or Angels, and then I discovered Boesemani which seemed to be the size I wanted.

I was kind of expecting that Boesemani would be too large for my tank. Still, as someone who has never kept fish like this before, I am sitting here looking at my empty 40gb (which as a newbie looks huge to me) wondering how a few 4 inch fish could be too large.

So what are my options for 4-5 inch fish that would be a good fit for this tank size.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

GrumpyGills said:


> Well, I wasn't planning on wanting another schooling fish, I wanted a couple larger centerpiece fish. I thought I was limited to Guarami or Angels, and then I discovered Boesemani which seemed to be the size I wanted.
> 
> I was kind of expecting that Boesemani would be too large for my tank. Still, as someone who has never kept fish like this before, I am sitting here looking at my empty 40gb (which as a newbie looks huge to me) wondering how a few 4 inch fish could be too large.
> 
> So what are my options for 4-5 inch fish that would be a good fit for this tank size.


Personally I think there are a lot of fish that could work in this size tank in that size range, however there aren't many 4-5 inch fish I'd trust with the fish you mention in your first post.


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## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

Ah I see. I guess I figured tetras are in just about every tank and corys stay on the bottom so both of those wouldn't be a problem, and a couple GBR didn't really seem incompatible with much...


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## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

Well what are some of those fish? I can always amend my initial list. 

Thanks


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## Grah the great (Jul 3, 2013)

Hybrid herp has an icon of a rainbow cichlid, which may be one of those rare 5 inch fish that is not likely to predate your planned stock. Not sure if they would tolerate the rams, though...


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Grah the great said:


> Hybrid herp has an icon of a rainbow cichlid, which may be one of those rare 5 inch fish that is not likely to predate your planned stock. Not sure if they would tolerate the rams, though...



Idk, I go by the rule of if it fits in the fish mouth it will be in the fish mouth, and I feel like those small tetras fit in a rainbow cichlid mouth.


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## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

Well, I've adjusted my expectations a bit. After doing a lot of research I can tell that Boesemani are totally out of the question.



MadRiverPat said:


> 10-15 cardinals, 6-8 sterbai, 2 GBR, 6 praecox rainbows


I like this list. I know praecox are small rainbows (3"). I'm not quite sure of the size of other rainbows, but could I mix a few species like praecox, turquoise, eastern, australian or do I need to stick with only praecox? I think having a variety of rainbows would more than make up for not being able to get a larger fish, especially if some of the rainbows got to around 4 inches (but not 5-6 like Boesemani).

Also you said that list had a little more room, could that be filled with a single angel (or two angels, not sure which would be preferable)?


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

GrumpyGills said:


> Well, I've adjusted my expectations a bit. After doing a lot of research I can tell that Boesemani are totally out of the question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Idk, I may almost say stick to the praecox since they would show better behaviors since the tank is a little more to scale with them...but then again I feel bosmani are a little smaller than the other species you listed that are not praecox.

Angels are nice, but annoying in my experience, as they are still a cichlid and still behave as one. I'd ask someone with more adult angel experience what the best number of them would be.

Although I just got a non-fish idea. If you want something larger.....vampire shrimp maybe?


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## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

Gah, rainbows seem so hard to find consistent info on for some reason!

I didn't realize those were larger rainbows. I've mostly been going off of the sizing info from this page: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+886

But then again that lists boesemani as 3 inches so who knows... I'm totally not against sticking to praecox, I just want to know all my options.

As for the shrimp... I appeciate out of the box thinking but no shrimp for me! I would like to stick to fish :smile:


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## MadRiverPat (May 3, 2013)

I know the feeling you are having. Staring at an empty 40 breeder makes you feel like the world is your oyster. I don't just do this with fish, but with plants, driftwood, rocks etc. I always buy fish and hardscape that are way too large. For a while know I have been trying to cut down on the size of species. 

Rainbows vary from species to species, but in reality they are a large body fish. Angels as well are cichlids and are pretty large. People often say that a 40 breeder isn't ideal for angels because its a very tall tank and angels require more vertical swimming room. As for rainbows, they are a really active swimming fish that is often described as "boisterous" and shouldn't be kept in anything less than a 75.

Thus far I would say that you are being thoughtful and planning accordingly. The other rainbows you listed are as large or larger than the boesemanis and will definitely outgrow your tank. Most people who keep rainbows in a 40 breeder will get them small and grow them out until they are too large for the tank. Different species grow faster than others so the timeframe for how long you could keep them would differ. I'd personally stick with the praecox in a school of 5-6.

As for angels, I've been researching them in hopes of adding a few to my 40 breeder. Given the size and stock of my tank I am planning to stick with just 1. It would be the largest fish in my tank though. I would worry that your tank would seem crowded trying to add angels along with rainbows. If it was my tank I would stick with one or the other. 

Realize that my knowledge is based on my personal experiences and research. I think that you could give it a try. I know people keep rainbows and angels in larger tanks together. I just don't know how peaceful of a community tank that would be. Keep us updated on what your decisions are. I'm excited to see this tank get underway!


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## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks again for the advice. 

I will stick with praecox. So I'm going back to tetas, sterbai, GBR, and praecox. Once that is up and running I will think about adding an angel.

I'll update as I go but it is going to take a little while!


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

My opinion would be
1. A single Angel, 12-15 Rummynose (so much more entertaining IMO), 8 Sterbai Cory's. MAYBE 3-4 Thread fin Raindows. 
2. No Angel and then maybe 4 Praecox with other fish. 
I have an Angel in my 46 (Dantum- really beautiful), 8 different Cory's, 5 Otos, 1 Bristlenose, and 4 Long fin Rosy barbs (going to add some more).
In my 75 Gallon I've got 4 Bosemani, 4 Australian, 4 Turquoise, 4 Praecox, Synodontis cat, Pictus cat, Bolivian Ram, 6 Serpae Tetras, 7 black skirt tetras. It's pretty well stocked, but I can't see a group of Praecox working with a school of Rummynose and possibly a moody Angelfish.
Have you looked at Bolivian Rams? Much more fun and social than any of the German or Electric Blue Rams I've had


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## JustJen (Jun 20, 2011)

GrumpyGills said:


> Well, I wasn't planning on wanting another schooling fish, I wanted a couple larger centerpiece fish. I thought I was limited to Guarami or Angels, and then I discovered Boesemani which seemed to be the size I wanted.
> 
> I was kind of expecting that Boesemani would be too large for my tank. Still, as someone who has never kept fish like this before, I am sitting here looking at my empty 40gb (which as a newbie looks huge to me) wondering how a few 4 inch fish could be too large.
> 
> So what are my options for 4-5 inch fish that would be a good fit for this tank size.


Rainbows are fish that need to be kept in groups to be happy, and they are VERY active so need the longer footprints to have adequate swimming room. I honestly wouldn't even keep the dwarf neon rainbows in a tank less than 4' given the choice as they are just too active and fast imo to not have that amount of swimming room available. 

Like someone else mentioned, anything in the 4-5" range is most likely going to be too big for that tank, and is also going to likely be at risk for eating your other fish (especially cardinals).


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## GrumpyGills (Jun 20, 2014)

Not trying to be rude since you are all just trying to help (and I really appreciate it!) but I just dropped $500 on a 40 gallon setup (without even fish or plants yet) and everyone is telling me to stock it with a school of tetras, a few bottom feeders and like one other fish. Not even close to what I envisioned for a relatively good sized community tank. If I seem frustrated it is because I'm just really afraid my tank is going to be boring. Obviously you are all giving me great advice in good faith.

Ok lets try to sort this out... 

Tetras. Sterbai. Angel. GBR or Bolivian Rams. What would be a similar type fish replacement for the praecox? Not giving up on them yet, but I will consider other fish if they would be better suited. I think five distinct species is my goal right now.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

GrumpyGills said:


> Not trying to be rude since you are all just trying to help (and I really appreciate it!) but I just dropped $500 on a 40 gallon setup (without even fish or plants yet) and everyone is telling me to stock it with a school of tetras, a few bottom feeders and like one other fish. Not even close to what I envisioned for a relatively good sized community tank. If I seem frustrated it is because I'm just really afraid my tank is going to be boring. Obviously you are all giving me great advice in good faith.
> 
> Ok lets try to sort this out...
> 
> Tetras. Sterbai. Angel. GBR or Bolivian Rams. What would be a similar type fish replacement for the praecox? Not giving up on them yet, but I will consider other fish if they would be better suited. I think five distinct species is my goal right now.


I know what you're sayin. I really like Threadfin Rainbows and when I get my BIG tank, I'll have schools of Bosemani, Turquise, Yellow, Threadfin, and Praecox. If you leave out the Angel and have a lot of filtration and do your weekly water changes I think you could pull off the Cardinals or Rummynose, Corys, Rams, and Praecox. Plant the tank heavy from the start and add to your stock slowly so you don't overwhelm your biofilter.
Personally I really enjoy overstocking a tank a bit. It's a bit more work, but if you're willing to keep up on it you should be OK.


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