# Mythin's ADA 60P | Softwater Dutch | Tonina's, erios's, syngonanthus, etc.



## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

This is great, gonna be one fantastic journal, already awesome pics..


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## umarnasir335 (Mar 2, 2014)

Very nice! Do you know what lighting you will be using with the 60-P?


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

How are you going to finish the stand , paint , powder coat?


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

StrungOut said:


> This is great, gonna be one fantastic journal, already awesome pics..


Thanks man, some of the credit goes to you, I got a good amount of plants from you!



umarnasir335 said:


> Very nice! Do you know what lighting you will be using with the 60-P?


For now I have a 24" buildmyled 6300k dutch planted XB, depending on the coverage i get, I may or may not add a second light. 



someoldguy said:


> How are you going to finish the stand , paint , powder coat?


Its gonna have an acrylic clear coat that's used to seal automobile engines, so it should be high heat/water proof.


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## ConfidentBlue (Aug 27, 2013)

Lookin forward to this!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Wow man. That stand looks super. Didn't even think of welding up a stand.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Awesome, love DIY metal stands. Can't wait to see where this goes.


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

My friend was able to drop off the stand today finished, finally I can get to work on getting everything set up.

Tank on stand, looks so awesome. The stand definitely deserves to have a 120p on it one day, its the perfect size for one.










Additives for substrate









I put an inch of substrate over the additives and then added some osmocote caps.










About 30 minutes after planting / adding water. I really love the substrate, i've been using it for about 2 years now, and I can say its better than amazonia. The water is already fairly clear for 30 minutes (filter hasn't even been turned on yet.)



















lotus blossom group shot










think i may have put a little too much contrast on the next picture. Syngonanthus 'madiera', dwarf riccia, mini AR, rotala mac japan red on the very right. 










Ill take more pictures once the plants fill in a bit more and actually settle in.


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## Ecas32 (Dec 14, 2011)

Very nice set up! How are you running your heater?


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## BigL_RIP (Jul 12, 2013)

when I had my stand welded, I chose to sit it on 4 legs vs cross pieces for fear that an uneven floor would rear its head. Presumably you're not having that issue?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

What light is that?


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Yup... I'm a fan! Stellar stand, light hangers, and LED light! You certainly have good taste.

What substrate is that? Man, that's a lot of O+ tabs! You may have a lot of ammonia for quite sometime I think. Just hope it stays capped under that substrate.


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

Ecas32 said:


> Very nice set up! How are you running your heater?


Thanks! I don't usually run heaters, this tank is no exception, I do live in texas, so the water never gets colder than maybe 72-74, and never gets warmer than ~82, so i just let the tank do its thing all year no heater. 



BigL_RIP said:


> when I had my stand welded, I chose to sit it on 4 legs vs cross pieces for fear that an uneven floor would rear its head. Presumably you're not having that issue?


There are 4 legs at the bottom corners which are screw on, so I can adjust it if the floor is uneven. 












talontsiawd said:


> What light is that?


Its a buildmyled 6300k dutch XB, I got to support a local to Austin company, and also they cut me a discount because I think they may use my tank for testing / pictures later on. (Thanks Cara and Nick!)



Brian_Cali77 said:


> Yup... I'm a fan! Stellar stand, light hangers, and LED light! You certainly have good taste.
> 
> What substrate is that? Man, that's a lot of O+ tabs! You may have a lot of ammonia for quite sometime I think. Just hope it stays capped under that substrate.


The substrate I use is Brightwell's rio escuro ( http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/rio_escuro_xf.php ), I find it like 10 times cleaner than amazonia, and im pretty sure its made in the same facility amazonia is, but this stuff is more uniform and less dusty than amazonia. Also the XF particle size is ~1mm which is really nice. The O caps are 3 inches down, so I hope thats enough, I don't plan on having any fish for at least 3 months if not longer.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

why does your madeira look so craaaazy?


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

I like Brightwell's products. I use their reminerlizer for my shrimp tank. So how much does that Rio Escuro run? Cheaper than AS?


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

StrungOut said:


> why does your madeira look so craaaazy?


Its probably the nicest looking stem of it that I have grown. The goal I want for this tank is to hopefully have the nicest specimens of each species in there, any ratty stems are going in my grow out ada 45p hightech. 



Brian_Cali77 said:


> I like Brightwell's products. I use their reminerlizer for my shrimp tank. So how much does that Rio Escuro run? Cheaper than AS?


I wouldnt say cheaper, the only place I could find it shipped online was dr foster and smith, http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=28435 and its 40 per 15 pounds, which is about 7.3 liters. Amazonia runs $30 for 9 liters, so its actually a little bit more expensive, but i guess that depends on shipping too, at dr foster and smiths, you can buy 2 bags and get free shipping, if you buy amazonia from aqua forest and get it shipped, it ends up costing more. For my 60p it took about 1 full bag (15lb) and 4/5ths of the 2nd bag to get the substrate to around 3 inches deep.


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Cool man.. Thanks for the info. I'll keep an eye on that product if I'm ever in need of substrate. My LFS gets Brightwell's stuff so I can always pursued them to get it. Maybe that'll take care of the shipping aspect (that's of course if they can beat Dr. Foster's price shipped for 2 bags). Anyways, I'll just follow along here and see how the substrate performs over time.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

> Its probably the nicest looking stem of it that I have grown. The goal I want for this tank is to hopefully have the nicest specimens of each species in there, any ratty stems are going in my grow out ada 45p hightech.


Looks outta this world! never seen anything like it


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

Day later, water isn't cloudy at all, besides a lot of pearling from all the plants. 










Can the virus that causes rosernvig/variegation veining spread? This alternanthera that wasn't variegated before is starting to become variegated after spending a month or two next to alternanthera variegated. 



























right side shot, 
eichhornia diversifolia, syngonanthus 'lago grande', sphaerocaryum malaccense, persicaria sp. 'Sao Paulo', rotala mini butterfly from tom barr, which looks like a different type of mini butterfly than what I used to grow, that had rounder more macrandra type wavy leaves. 


















the 'craaazy' madeira


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

2 weeks in so far, was getting a little bit of algae so i raised the lights about 3 inches more. I turned down the co2 a little because I think I was probably doing 50ppm or something.


















true dwarf riccia, the substrate is 1mm grain size for comparison. 

FTS 7/26/2014:









Happy with how everything is growing in, the limnophila 'mini vietnam' is starting to crawl finally. Just waiting for the background plants to grow in now, theres linophila 'aromatica' and rotala sp 'ceylon' in the middle back.


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Wow.. didn't even know there was a dwarf riccia. I really like it! Where did you get it? Anyways, tank is looking bright and colorful. Great work!


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Wow.. didn't even know there was a dwarf riccia. I really like it! Where did you get it? Anyways, tank is looking bright and colorful. Great work!


I got it from malaysia maybe 3 years ago, ive been growing it out since then, mostly emersed. I sell it once in a while, but it grows pretty painfully slow, and unlike normal riccia, it really isnt annoying, and any parts that break off usually just die, instead of floating away and creating a mess in another part of the tank like normal riccia. Its a really nice plant, looks really bright green, stays very compact, grows slow, what more could you want. 

I finally got some fauna for this tank, since it cycled basically a day after water was added (added plenty of mulm from another tank) I figured its time to scope out some fish for it. I really wanted fish that would do well in super soft water, so most rainbows were out of the question, and killifish dont live very long although they are some of the most beautiful fish. I decided to go with some type of colorful south american chichlid, but more rare than the common german blue ram. I ended up on some kind of apistogramma, whatever the LFS near me had, luckily they had just gotten a shipment in of some F0 apistogramma panduro. 

As of right now stocking is:
M/F pair of Apistogramma Panduro 
20 neon tetra's (very common, but really like the colors against my plants, and to provide dither fish for my main inhabitants.)
8 or so otto's

I will have to take some pictures of the apistogramma panduro later, they are some of the coolest looking fish, they have a iridescent orange / blue sheen that may be hard to capture on photo, but in person they are stunners.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

How do you go about propagating eichornia diversifolia? My stem has been the same forever, just growing up slowly, not throwing any sideshoots at all. Loving this tank btw


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

StrungOut said:


> How do you go about propagating eichornia diversifolia? My stem has been the same forever, just growing up slowly, not throwing any sideshoots at all. Loving this tank btw


If you asked me a week ago, id tell you I have no idea, but finally after 2 months mine finally started sending out 2 new side shoots. All that needed to happen was that it needed to reach about 1 inch from the top of the tank, as soon as it got close enough to the light, it sent out those 2 new shoots. The plant is so slow to grow, but man, i really like the color of it, and the look. Im surprised more people don't grow it.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Nice stand and display. You'll need to work some of those species out of the tank over time, then see what you like etc. the Tonina lotus Bloss is smaller than the normal, so I'd keep that and toss the other. Ech diversifolia, I'd get rid of it, it's very weedy. I'd loose the other weedy stems also, and the Red mac. You can run a few nice red rows through the tank however. Keep the reineckii's, use the large ones for the rear, and run the mini though the middle at a diagonal or something. 

Those are easy and sell, the other species tend to stay short and grow slower, so keep those, much easier to manage over time. Phase the weedy stems out over time. Not all at once, so as the nicer rare easy to maintain plants fill in, remove the weeds. 

It's an effective approach to collectoritus. 
Tank will look better also.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

E. Diversifolia, your picture just such eye candy. The mexicana goias right next to it has lovely coloring too. Glad you shared those shots.


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## n5750547 (Jan 15, 2014)

I think I saw this tank on reddit?
It looks awesome.


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## mayphly (Jul 20, 2010)

Your tank is very inspiring!


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

Pretty tank! I really like it!


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Nice stand and display. You'll need to work some of those species out of the tank over time, then see what you like etc. the Tonina lotus Bloss is smaller than the normal, so I'd keep that and toss the other. Ech diversifolia, I'd get rid of it, it's very weedy. I'd loose the other weedy stems also, and the Red mac. You can run a few nice red rows through the tank however. Keep the reineckii's, use the large ones for the rear, and run the mini though the middle at a diagonal or something.
> 
> Those are easy and sell, the other species tend to stay short and grow slower, so keep those, much easier to manage over time. Phase the weedy stems out over time. Not all at once, so as the nicer rare easy to maintain plants fill in, remove the weeds.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking a look and comments Tom! I agree, I have a collectoritus problem, Ive actually been thinking about moving lotus blossom to my other tank that I dont dose many Macros for. For whatever reason, lotus blossom likes to melt on me, the lower leaves start turning translucent and the whole stem starts melting from the bottom up. I noticed it on the days i dose macros. I think whats happening is whatever is in my dry ferts (I think khpo4) that raises kh/gh slightly (small white crystals, looks like sugar) are not getting fully dissolved and landing close to lotus blossom and melting it (fertilizer burn). The normal tonina fluviatilis doesn't seem to have this issue at all, and honestly I kind of like the normal tonina fluviatilis more than lotus blossom, it just looks nicer to me, stays a more pleasant green. As far as E. Diversifolia, I agree its not a plant I really want in the tank, its really large, but for now im gonna try keeping a stem or two, it seems to grow slow and only maxing out at 2 stems, it looks like little palm trees in my tank. 

Limnophila aromatica, pogostemon yatabeanus, pogostemon stellatus broad, all look to be kind of too big for this tank, although i really like the color of pogostemon stellatus broad. Ill probably keep, lindernia sp india, rotala indica, sphaerocaryum malaccense, rotala mini buterfly, (prob get rid of rotala mac green), limno sp 'mini vietnam', and the rest of the syngonanthus varieties I have. Im trying to keep more plants that have a very nice erect growth pattern. I may get rid of 'belem', its kind of the least interesting syngonanthus. 




StrungOut said:


> E. Diversifolia, your picture just such eye candy. The mexicana goias right next to it has lovely coloring too. Glad you shared those shots.


Thanks man, appreciate the comments! I like looking through your pictures too 



n5750547 said:


> I think I saw this tank on reddit?
> It looks awesome.





mayphly said:


> Your tank is very inspiring!





AnotherHobby said:


> Pretty tank! I really like it!


Thank you all for the comments!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Tonina is a water column feeder, it has no real submersed roots unless you grow it emergent.

Ferts and issues thereof: likely CO2 issues.

In tanks where you might rarely do water changes; they will have lower KH's which SOME species prefer. Such tanks also happen to have less dosing and fiddling in general, but the KH, not the ferts are the reason. 

Tonina is a rather tough plant, I've not seen any issues with it with ferts, only CO2 and light. 

While you can phase plants out here and there, you can also keep 1-2 weedy species and then rotate those after you tired it for awhile and get some taste of what that species is like etc.

I sort of do that with my 120 Gallon.

But if a new plant comes along, I'll need to remove a weed to replace it.

So see what works best for your scape and see what you like. 
This will take some time.


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Tonina is a water column feeder, it has no real submersed roots unless you grow it emergent.
> 
> Ferts and issues thereof: likely CO2 issues.
> 
> ...


Its possible its co2, but I was running very high co2 prior to getting fish and they still did the weird bottom melting thing, the tops still remained fine. It could have been a light issue, as the bottoms may have been getting shaded a little bit, whatever the issue, i dont seem to have it in my other tank that I barely dose and only co2 inject. 

Speaking of tonina, heres a great video of it in its natural habitat. pretty awesome floating tonina mat, should be queued to the spot, otherwise its around 20 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVuO6OjoGmQ#t=1190


I also got rid of a few plants that were just too big for the 60p, gone are p. stellatus broad, limno sp sulawesi, limno aromatica. I am keeping the rotala sp 'ceylon' as the main mid background, it seems to make a nice bush, and responds really well to trimming. I got some cuphea in, which is a really nice plant from the looks of it, it was kinda ugly when I got it, but it only took 2 days to color up. I have some rotala sunset on the way, i hope its not too big for this tank.


My new inhabitants decided to spawn, which didnt take very long at all. Apparently Apisto Panduro usually are picky about their mates and you need a few females and even then you need to get lucky for the male to have interest. Well i guess I was really lucky since I only had 1 male and 1 female, they decided to pair off and spawn. 

They are substrate spawners, but usually spawn inside a cave which I didn't provide them, so they rearranged my foreground and made their own cave. Basically uprooted the dwarf riccia off the stone I had tied it to, then she laid eggs on said stone and dug a pit infront of the stone so it would fall down a bit. 

You can see a stray egg in the very front of the tank, looks like a little orange red pebble. 









Its hard to tell, but I think only 2-3 were successfully fertilized, I see eyes on 3 or so eggs out of the 15 or so she attached to the rock. 

Male:








Female:









Rotala mexicana 'goias'









side shot


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

Well, I went to visit my parents for the weekend, and came back to quite a few baby panduro fry swimming underneath their parents, in and around my dwarf riccia/mini ar. Its always nice to come home to surprises. I thought only 2-3 eggs got fertilized, but I was wrong, i see at least 10-12 free swimming fry, so not bad for a first batch. I also dosed a full dosage of algaefix before leaving for the weekend after my water change, happy to say, it didn't kill any of the fry that I can tell. 



















This being her first brood didn't expect much, but both parents seem to be really doing well guarding the fry, as you can see all the neon's are now segregated to the right side of the tank. 










Another nice sight to see when I got home, the emersed grown Rotala 'Sunset' I got just started to put out its first underwater leaves, and man does it look pretty. I asked for smaller/medium stems thinking they would have a better chance of converting over to submerged. You can see that there are flowers/pods all over the stem from the emersed growth.


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## Bunbuku (Sep 19, 2010)

Beautiful tank Mythin! I hope my lago grandes will look as nice in a few weeks. Quick question. How do you keep you're erios from floating up?


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

Bunbuku said:


> Beautiful tank Mythin! I hope my lago grandes will look as nice in a few weeks. Quick question. How do you keep you're erios from floating up?


I know the one I sent you had a pretty massive root system, you are fine to cut the roots until they are only about ~1 inch long, they will regrow really fast. Its hard to keep it planted if you tried to plant it with the whole root system attached. Having a deep substrate obviously helps as well.


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

Made a video today just for fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyZrlRR8it0


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

Had some free time since its labor day and all, thought I would add some new pictures:

FTS: 9/1/14


















Front right corner of tank, Ludwigia Sphaerocarpa in center. 










Rotala Sunset looking nice.










Ah, the highly debated 2 types of Rotala Mini 'butterfly'










The Tom Barr variety has longer narrow leaves (meaning this is what I got from him as Rotala 'mini butterfly') on the right side of the picture, the left side is the other stable form of rotala 'mini butterfly'. I think they are Rotala 'mini butterfly' type IV and Rotala 'Mini butterfly' type V respectively. 

For reference, although I find both forms are perfectly stable in the same environment, even though the picture states otherwise: 








http://www.bravobaby.de/plants/Rotala-Macrandra-Butterfly-Mini-Type-V.htm
http://www.bravobaby.de/plants/Rotala-Macrandra-Mini-Type-IV-Red.htm

Anyways, I digress, back to more pictures.

Rotala 'Sunset' Close up:









Tonina 'Lotus Blossom' Grouping:









Limnophila 'mini vietnam' on bottom, Rotala Macrandra 'Japan Red' on top, Erio Kimberly and Erio Cinereum in front mid, you can also spot a little cuphea and gratiola viscidula as well. 









Rotala Mexicana 'Goias' mound close up, getting a little bit of algae near the glass, im guessing the ottos can no longer squeeze in there due to plant density, also pictured ludwigia sphaerocarpa, cuphea anagalloidea, and the 2 mini butterflys again :









Left side of the tank, I have AR 'mini' on the left, growing some (un)healthy algae, ever since the Panduro spawned, they dont let the ottos anywhere near the AR 'mini', as a result, a lot of it is growing some beard algae I believe, any way its not bothering me too much yet. Middle center, my mound of dwarf riccia that has been hollowed out by my chichlids into a natural cave, above that is the syngonanthus 'variegated' twisted, and top left, is my mound of tonina fluviatilis:










Aciotis acuminifolia, very beautiful plant, nice bright red/pink, really similar to AR 'Variegated''s colors. 









Last shot, from the right side, basically what you see when you enter my apartment. Erio 'Type 3' or Erio Setaceum, not sure which, and not really convinced that they are 2 separate species. Sphaerocaryum malaccense is the bamboo like grass plant, i love how this plant looks in a grouping, and when its mid day, they are all pearling and holding air bubbles, its cool looking. And in the back is Rotala macrandra 'Caterpillar' which is a Rotala 'mini butterfly' morph. 









Progression:


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

That is looking very nice right there.


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## ChalupaBatman (Feb 12, 2015)

Awesome tank! Great depth and contrast.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Fantastic journal. Is the tank still running, any updates?


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Very nice collection of pictures! Anything more or new? @mythin


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## MaroMan (Jan 6, 2010)

Tank Looks fantastic and is quite an inspiration! Any updates?


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