# AZOO Brush Algae Killer. Does it really work?



## sn8k (May 24, 2004)

It must be tuff to get - it's not even for sale on eBay :tongue: 

Seriously though, I'm going through a problem with brush algae myself... I'm going to try a regular dosing regime and try to get all water parameters nailed down in order to hopefully allow the plants to outcompete the algae for nutrients. I'm also going to change out the bulbs in my compact floresent fixture to something other the 6500K (I ordered the 9325°K Super Daylight bulbs from drsfostersmith.com yesterday) in hopes that this may help as well. 

I feel your pain buddy - I'll keep you posted if my guesses on why it is occuring pan out and hopefully a way to get rid of it. I'm not too keen on algaicides as it doesn't cure the reasons why you are having a problem. If you can't figure out why it's happening, then you'll never be rid of it. :wink:


----------



## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I have never tried it but you really need to come up with the cause of the BBA to get the cure. Even if you spend the money on that it will be a temporary fix because 'something' is causing the algae and it will only return.


----------



## Will (Oct 7, 2004)

I've been reading a lot about it of late, and there is a school of thought that it is not a true algae and that once you have it you can never really be rid of it.
I was speaking with a bloke at my LFS yesterday and they normally stock the product but are unable to get it at the moment. He told me that they had it (BBA) through one of their display tanks (I recall seeing the one he mentioned and it was indeed smothered in the stuff) and after one dose, it killed the alga and it has never returned. I checked the tank he was talking about and there was no BBA to be seen.


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I had a case of BBA in my little 20 long. 

I watched the fertilizers, balanced things out, and got my CO2 levels up to near 30ppm. I then watched the BBA disappear! 

Buck is spot on. Adding an algaecide is treating the symptoms, it is not a cure. Your best bet would be to grit your teeth, swallow hard, and get to testing!  Get a grip on all your levels NO3, PO4, pH, KH and CO2. Once everything is in balance, the BBA will be gone in no time. 

You have to give these things some time, and invest some more time. That is the best way to beat back the "algae beast"!

Mike


----------



## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

Going the natural route is the best in dealing with any type of algae. When I had a outbreak of BBA I picked as much off by hand as I could, scrubbed rocks & other decor under running water, cut off leaves that where badly affected and increased my micros. Also I found that BBA seems to like water flow, so I redirected the flow away from the plants and onto the back glass. Doing all these things got rid of 99% of it.


----------



## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

BBA is no longer a problem for me ever since I developed a regular dosing routine. But before that, a gang of SAEs took care of it AFTER they ran out of other foods/algae.


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> But before that, a gang of SAEs took care of it AFTER they ran out of other foods/algae.


LOL! It seems SAEs often look toward eating algae as a last resort! Mine seem to find everything else to be more palatable! :hihi: 

Mike


----------



## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Momotaro said:


> Mine seem to find everything else to be more palatable! :hihi:
> 
> Mike


Wait till you've got discus in the tank and start with live/frozen foods! man, SAEs get to the foods much quicker than discus! :icon_roll That's why SAEs have lost favor with me.


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

SAEs are really something!

Like we have mentioned, they are real hounds for fish foods and at times you need to be careful what you plant when they reside in your aquarium. They chowed down on my R. wallichii and munched on Blyxa sp. "Vietnam"! I am propagating some Hydrilla, Hydrotriche hottoniflora and some R. sp. "Nanjenshan" and I don't dare put them in an aquarium with a large SAE, lest they become lunch!

Mike


----------



## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

> I don't dare put them in an aquarium with a large SAE, lest they become lunch!


 Mike... the SAE's or the plants ? _LMAO !_


----------



## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Buck said:


> Mike... the SAE's or the plants ? _LMAO !_


 :hihi: If I could catch the SAEs, they would be my lunch, they are so fat! They are pretty smart too, when I stare at them, they would pretend to start nibbling on algae :icon_bigg


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> Mike... the SAE's or the plants ? LMAO !


The plants! Wiseguy! LOL! Although, like Shalu, my SAE is so big he would certainly make a hearty meal!

I just don't trust my SAE with any fine leafed plants!  

Mike


----------



## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

shalu said:


> :hihi: If I could catch the SAEs, they would be my lunch, they are so fat! They are pretty smart too, when I stare at them, they would pretend to start nibbling on algae :icon_bigg


Haha! Mine do the same thing! It's like they are saying "See? I am an algae eater!"
Actually, my bristlenose pleco and sailfin pleco do a better job at eating the brush aglae than the 6 SAE's in the tank.

As for the AZOO Brush Algae Killer, Azoo is having difficulty with the EPA since this is being marketed as a "killer" and therefore has to be registered as a pesticide. This involves heavy testing, attorney's fees, etc. I'm familiar with this process because I just went through it at work.
I wish I could get a little tip to Azoo - just market the product as a "Brush Algae Controller" or "reducer" or any other less severe term than "killer" and you can skeet right by the EPA. Then again, maybe not, now that they've set off that alarm.


----------



## Will (Oct 7, 2004)

Finally the Azoo BBA Killer that I ordered has arrived. I've just added the recommended daily dose (use for 14 days) so I'll see whether it has any effect, fingers crossed. 
Interestingly it's now labelled Azoo Brush Magic, so you folks in Canada and the US may be able to get hold of it before too long.


----------



## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Will said:


> Finally the Azoo BBA Killer that I ordered has arrived. I've just added the recommended daily dose (use for 14 days) so I'll see whether it has any effect, fingers crossed.
> Interestingly it's now labelled Azoo Brush Magic, so you folks in Canada and the US may be able to get hold of it before too long.


Interesting that they got rid of the "Killer" moniker. Looks like EPA might not be able to do much about it now!


----------



## PlantumOfTheOpera (Mar 12, 2003)

Will,

I too have had a BBA outbreak of late. I have clipped a lot of old growth, and gotten some small SAE's; my personal feeling is that the youger ones seem to eat more algae than when they get bigger.

I have tried soaking some affected leaves in peroxide, as I heard this would kill the stuff, am waiting on the outcome. 

Would you be so kind as to share the listed ingredients with the rest of the list? 

fwiw, I have used algacides in the past, some with better results than others. I just want to know what it is beforehand if possible.

Thx,


----------



## mr hyde (Sep 7, 2002)

Will
Any luck with the Azoo Brush Magic?


----------



## Will (Oct 7, 2004)

Sorry guys, haven't been on in a while.
*PlantomOfTheOpera* - oddly enough, the packaging does not list the ingredients in the product. I've emailed AZOO to find out what's in it and when I hear back from them I'll let you know.
*Mr Hyde* - I'm really happy to report that it does indeed appear to have killed the BBA with absolutley no effect on the biofilter, plants or fish.
There is no new growth of the algae anywhere to be seen and the biggest patches (on the driftwood and rocks) seem to disintegrate a little more each day.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

BBA killer?
Add more CO2 silly kids.
Unlike Azoo, the BBA does not come back later or other noxious algae.
Stop chasing your tail, that's all the snake oil, miracle cures do.
If you want to grow plants, then focus on their needs.
It's that simple, but if you want to raise and then kill algae, and like algae culturing techniques, be my guest

I don't use algae killers nor does anyone worth their salt that has grown planted tank well for years. All you need to do is raise the CO2 levels up.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Will (Oct 7, 2004)

Thanks for your advice Tom, but it is 2004 (well almost 2005) and technology has advanced far enough to enable those of us who are mere mortals to employ less intensive means. 
I am impressed with the results of this product. 
Quite simply, it works without the need to measure and dose with surgical precision, the various elements that may or may not eradicate BBA. 
I'm happy with my lot Tom, I have a beautiful, well planted and thriving aquarium. I may not be, as you say, "worth my salt as someone who has grown planted tanks well for years", but I have no such aspirations, I don't care if each and every single element is in such precise balance that my poor old algae could not possibly survive. I'm oddly happy with reasonable and healthy plant growth and favourable conditions for my tanks inhabitants.
My tank, plants and fish are rudely healthy, if I choose to employ methods of control that are anathema to you, I make no apologies for it. You have your opinions and I will have mine. 
Tom, be a little more forgiving and tolerant of those who may not share your approach to things, celebrate diversity and broaden your horizons a little, it's good for you. 

regards
Will


----------



## johnnyandjebus (Dec 16, 2004)

some where in this thread someone said
' I found that BBA seems to like water flow, so I redirected the flow away from the plants and onto the back glass. '
Well this makes sense to me as I have a problem with BBA but only on plants under the filter. I am currenllt trying 2 things
First get my house in order in regards to water quality 
Second I am trying a product cxalled Maracyn, I am only inot my second day with this so I will let you all know how it goes
Happy Holidays all!!


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Will said:


> Thanks for your advice Tom, but it is 2004 (well almost 2005) and technology has advanced far enough to enable those of us who are mere mortals to employ less intensive means.
> I am impressed with the results of this product.
> Quite simply, it works without the need to measure and dose with surgical precision, the various elements that may or may not eradicate BBA.
> I'm happy with my lot Tom, I have a beautiful, well planted and thriving aquarium. I may not be, as you say, "worth my salt as someone who has grown planted tanks well for years", but I have no such aspirations, I don't care if each and every single element is in such precise balance that my poor old algae could not possibly survive. I'm oddly happy with reasonable and healthy plant growth and favourable conditions for my tanks inhabitants.
> ...


My horizons are quite broad about plants and algae. I've used more than 30 different things to kill target specific weeds and algae over some decades long fights. Sure, some killed the BBA.
Copper did a great job. I'm an expert on aquatic herbicides, I recently published some reviews on the one's allowed by and registered by the state of CA.

But the long run approach is what I'm suggesting will be far more fruitful with out a lot of effort which you seem to imply I am suggesting, it's actually the reverse. It's fairly easy as far as "the how".
"Less intensive" than what? Taking good care of the plants? Err isn't that the goal? You can have a decent tank without CO2 also, I do. But if you use it correctly, it will improve the tank far more than BBA killer plus what you are doing now. So is better... better? I'm not sure why you said this. 

My mind has been opened for a very long time about ways to out fox algae.
I can sell folks PO4 and claim it kills algae, it will work on some folk's tanks also. I can also sell folks Excel and since it helps add carbon to plants, it may kill BBA, I've heard reports of that. H2O2 is being rexamined once again, about every 1-3 years some folks go off about the same thing again. 

Knowing why and how something works is important. 

Maybe you might be open to that line of reasoning? 

As far as techonolgy and 2005 almost, I work for UC Davis doing specifically research herbicidal effects on aquatic weeds for the CDFA. The makers of such products must register their products that claim to kill algae with the Dept of Pesticide Regulation(DPR) to have the product sold in the state and by the EPA(Federal) for use. I did my master's on feshwater algae at UF. 

I use to think like that(search for algae cures).
But as you suggested......I opened my mind a long time ago.........and it sure worked and helped a lot more folks than Azoo BBA killer ever will. I still kill algae with whatever claims to come down the pipe. Barly straw claimed all sort of greatness as well, but in controlled studies, it did nothing.
Copper did. 

Adding enough nutrients/CO2 for the plants takes care of all the algae, not just one species. Certain species of plants are also effected differently as are different levels of algae blooms. Mild ones are easy to deal a blow to wereas bad cases will only make a slight dent. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

johnnyandjebus said:


> some where in this thread someone said
> ' I found that BBA seems to like water flow, so I redirected the flow away from the plants and onto the back glass. '
> Well this makes sense to me as I have a problem with BBA but only on plants under the filter.


I have found this to be true to, once I turned the water flow away from the problem area it helped to a great degree.


----------



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

trenac said:


> I have found this to be true to, once I turned the water flow away from the problem area it helped to a great degree.


Yep, your depriving the algae in that spot of food. However it only means that where you water flow is pointed at now will be the new spot that the algae appears. You did nothing to control the food supply for the algae in the tank. That's why adding a bit more CO2 will help the plants out compete the algae and thus eliminate it from your tank all together.

You can also cut back on the feeding of your fish. Feed them only every other day. It really won't hurt them a bit.


----------



## TimsViv (Jan 16, 2004)

Will,

Where did you finally find the Azoo Brush Magic? While I agree that I need to find the cause and treat my water parameters, I would like to treat for the BBA as quickly as possible to try to save my plants.

Tim


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Your plants will be fine, there is not rush except to fix the CO2. 
That is the only thing that will stop the BBA over time. 
You have CO2 now so work on that.

You can trim, peroxide, bleach dip, add this or SAE's or whatever any time.
Peroxide, Bleach both work, cost nothing pretty much, adding CO2 is what you should be doing anyway, worry about that if you ever see BBA.

Your plants will not die, they might look ratty, but with good CO2, it will go away and stop growing.

That helps the plants like nothing else.

You can induce and measure the pH/KH very carefully is it appear and then stop once the CO2 is raised.

I have a YSI datalogging pH monitor and a nice KH measuring device. I can detect the changes very accurately over any time frame.

Adding Excel will also help. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

Is it just me, (sorry for the thread hijack) or does anybody else find the text sensitive advertisements amusing at times:










Like we really need _more_ of the stuff :icon_roll, even at 50% off!


----------



## possum (Dec 30, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> You can trim, peroxide, bleach dip, add this or SAE's or whatever any time.
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


Tom...Is that straight peroxide or diluted with water to rinse the plants? thanks...Steve


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Straight 3%, I'll brush it on, general this would only be used in a tank where the removal of a piece of wood or rock makes it troublesome. 
I might add a little on a few toughed leaved plants. 

Generally, I trim off any plants that are infected. 

I see algae and I can tell most of the time what is wrong with a tank based on the species, this approach is called *bioindicators*, the EPA uses this protocol. Many use plants in this manner as well, eg _M umbrosum _ for low NO3 levels, _Riccia_ pearling for CO2 and so on. 

This approach leads to a better understanding and doing a term approach based on the plant's needs than copper, algone, Mark Weiss products, algafix, BBA remover, simiazine, anything new that comes down the pipe every few months/years. If I'd settled for antibibiotics or BBA killer, Copper etc alone, we'd have little understanding about why the BGA or BBA etc appeared to begin with, *that knowledge is more useful that how to kill it*. 

Some may want to pick and get into semantics over it and go down this line of reasoning...."Well maybe it'll work...." and hence every few months/years something new comes down the pipe in a bottle that claims it'll cure cancer, make you gain 3 inches and reverses the aging process. That type of stuff is big marketing and makes lots of $. If folks followed the advice I gave, they don't have algae problems. 

But many folks don't care about why (I do), they just want to know about "how" to fix their immediate issues. The quick fix. The best simplest approach is to grow the plants well. That is the "goal" here, the big picture, not the quick fix. 

None of these products grow plants.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

Tom, what would you suggest for mass production tanks? Like a fishroom with 40, 50, 100 breeder tanks, or in my case rows of 30 tanks for temporary stock of plants. C02 is out of the question for a mass number of tanks. Lighting is rows of 8 ft HO tubes hanging over the tanks. In most cases the breeders or myself may have only a single plant specie in each tank, slow growing swords or Anubias, or fast growing hornwort or hygro. How would you fight algae control with the right combination of ferts under those circumstances?


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Robert H said:


> Tom, what would you suggest for mass production tanks? Like a fishroom with 40, 50, 100 breeder tanks, or in my case rows of 30 tanks for temporary stock of plants. C02 is out of the question for a mass number of tanks. Lighting is rows of 8 ft HO tubes hanging over the tanks. In most cases the breeders or myself may have only a single plant specie in each tank, slow growing swords or Anubias, or fast growing hornwort or hygro. How would you fight algae control with the right combination of ferts under those circumstances?


Simple dips in Alum/bleach/H2O2 work to reduce the BBA and other algae.
Less light also helps. Growers in Florida do this or else switch to hydroponics/emegent culture or Tissue culture like Tropica and FAN. 

Centralized system design allows for mass scale of CO2 use. A number of growers in FL use spring water and slow flow through systems that add the nutrient rich and CO2 water into the larger scale grow out tanks.

You may consider redesigning the system with a centrailized pump/sump system and then add CO2 there. CO2 is cheap. A poorly design system is not and will cost you in the long run as it will make your life and the plants much higher quality.

I suggested this to Guy at Albany Aquarium, his plants are much better than anyone's now.

There is a little algae here and there, it's not sterile, but that is not the goal really. 

Lime then Alum dips also can help. These are relatively mild on plants and you can leave them in there for a few hours depending.then rotate and trasfer to the main tanks. That+ trimming/preening+ CO2 will make things run pretty good.

Copper is good for Crypts BTW, Gasser used a lot of copper on his tank system.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------

