# Where To Purchase CO2?



## Cbwmn (Nov 30, 2007)

I’m also new to pressurized CO2 also.
I bought a used Milwaukee regulator and pH controller.
First night I used it I gassed two of my four angels.
Now I’ve figured the system out and its running fine.
I went to a welding shop and they filled my 10 lb tank 
for $15 + tax.

First I went to a fire extinguisher place and they 
wanted about $35. I didn’t go for it.
I understand that welding shops have CO2 that is “dirtier” 
than beverage depots. It has dust and other debris that 
actually is stopped prior to diffusion into an aquarium.
Milwaukee gives instructions on cleaning the orifice 
in the needle valve.
I also bought 6 extra nylon seals. 
The nylon seals have o be replaced every time you remove 
the regulator.
I plan on buying a Permaseal soon. They can be used indefinably.
Look at Rex Griggs website.

Good luck
Charles


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks, Charles. I've been to Rex Grigg's site. He lists only one place in Minnesota that supplies CO2, and that is in Hibbing, a few hours drive. And it appears they do canister swaps only. I know there must be something local in the Twin Cities area.

Tim


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Never heard about "dirty CO2" from welding stores. I usually get my CO2 from a welding supply store (Airgas), they charge about $28 for a 10# refill. To get the tank recertified, I had to go to a Fire Extinguisher place.

Whether you refill or exchange tanks is really a toss-up, with a new shiny aluminum tank you probably want to refill, while an old used tank could be exchanged as well. Exchanging has the advantage that you can drop off/pick up at the same time.

I re-use the same nylon seal over and over again. It is compressed by now, but still seals very well. Everyone does that differently though. If you use a new seal, it might be advisable to tighten the regulator screw a couple of days after you initially connected the regulator to the tank.


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Great! I checked Google, and there are a few Airgas locations around the Twin Cities area. I'll give them a call next week when they are open.

Related question: for a 29-gallon or 20-gallon tank, how long might I expect a 5lb tank to last? I have two aquariums that need CO2, and they are about 30 feet apart. I don't suppose there's such a thing as using one canister to supply CO2 to both tanks?

Thanks again!
Tim


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Wasserpest said:


> Never heard about "dirty CO2" from welding stores. I usually get my CO2 from a welding supply store (Airgas), they charge about $28 for a 10# refill.


Ouch

I pay $15 for 20 lbs tank at small welding supply down the street.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

rbarn said:


> Ouch
> 
> I pay $15 for 20 lbs tank at small welding supply down the street.


he lives in California. We must be more understanding. An apple is like $5.


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## Cbwmn (Nov 30, 2007)

Wasserpest said:


> Never heard about "dirty CO2" from welding stores. I usually get my CO2 from a welding supply store (Airgas), they charge about $28 for a 10# refill. To get the tank recertified, I had to go to a Fire Extinguisher place.
> 
> Whether you refill or exchange tanks is really a toss-up, with a new shiny aluminum tank you probably want to refill, while an old used tank could be exchanged as well. Exchanging has the advantage that you can drop off/pick up at the same time.
> 
> I re-use the same nylon seal over and over again. It is compressed by now, but still seals very well. Everyone does that differently though. If you use a new seal, it might be advisable to tighten the regulator screw a couple of days after you initially connected the regulator to the tank.


I had a bad solenoid. Talked to a Milwaukee tech on the phone and asked him why a needle valve would clog up. That’s when he told me about industrial CO2 being “dirty”.
I copied ths from the Milwaukee website:
http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/pdf/...lve_repair.pdf

SO – now you’ve heard of it!
Charles



*MA957 Clogged Needle Valve Repair Procedure *​Over time dirty CO2 gas flowing through the regulator will start to deposit dust and dirt in the small gas line located inside the needle valve. When these deposits become large enough the gas flow becomes restricted and eventually will stop. When you add more gas pressure, forcing the gas pass the inline restriction, the flow will start back but as the backpressure subsides the gas flow and bubble count will also diminish and will again eventually stop. This yo-yo effect causes the operator to apply even more pressure from the large black main regulator knob (Macro adjustment) until the backpressure is so high that the solenoid will not close, even when power to the solenoid is turned off. This high backpressure in the solenoid piston chamber will allow gas to continue to flow through the regulator dropping the pH to 5.5 causing a catastrophic effect on all biological life in a tank. 

*Field repair procedure *- Turn the tank off and take the regulator off the tank. Take the bubble counter off the regulator needle valve. Open the needle valve all the way open by turning the knob counter-clockwise until it stops. 
Use a 1/16” drill and go through the top hole of the needle valve and drill through the base of that hole until you feel the drill pass through into the main chamber. Drill time is only about 2 seconds at full drill speed. Turn the regulator over and tap the needle valve on a table to knock out the drill filings. Remount the regulator. *Note: *If 1/16” drill is not available then go to next size which is a 5/64” drill bit.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

I'm still calling BS on "dirty Co2"


I fly, and have O2 bottle in my plane for high alt. flying.

O2 from industrial sources used to be frowned upon for use in your plane bottle
but recent Aviation Consumer research showed that whether gases are
gotten from an industrial supplier or true "medical" breathing O2 supplier
that gas quality, humidity and contamination were identical.

All these gasses are produced at the same plant and sent out.
They dont have a separate food grade and separate industrial Co2 plants.
All comes from the same source.


Here is an excellent thread I found from a home brew beer forum
http://www.micromatic.com/forum/us-.../3561-food-grade-vs-industrial-grade-co2.html

" _..... Normal Co2 is co2, food grade co2 is normal co2, but they clean/Aseptic the tank they use to store it (transport, etc) 
so that Co2 and Food Grade Co2 was exact the same gas, the difference was in the manipulation/cleaning of the tank, ....._ "


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## Cbwmn (Nov 30, 2007)

rbarn said:


> I'm still calling BS on "dirty Co2"
> 
> 
> I fly, and have O2 bottle in my plane for high alt. flying.
> ...


 
That does make sense on paper.
BUT, why does Milwaukee post that procedure?
Where does the clogged debris come from?
Incidentally, even though I wasn’t having a clog 
problem, I performed the procedure and after drilling,
I knocked out some tan colored debris. 
It was *NOT* brass shavings that came out. 
*So, what’s the argument?*
Milwaukee must think that industrial CO2 is dirty.
A person could call them at Tel.: +1.252.443.3630.
Large gas company’s do make their own gas 
(as do large medical supply company’s).
The process could be different.

Instead of arguing, why don’t we try to find where
CO2 can be obtained in the Twin Cities area?

Charles


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

The process is NOT different from industrial, food or medical gas production

It's not the *gas* thats contaminating the needle valve. ...........
It's the *bottle*

Get a food grade glass lined Co2 bottle and you will not get 
the contaminates from the inside of the bottle corroding over time.

If you're hung up on using Food Grade, look in the yellow pages
for beverage supply houses ....... and get a Food Grade bottle.


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

there is such a thing as dirty co2. I started getting my co2 tank filled at a local paint ball gun store.. they would do it while I waited. I before that had to take it to the shop where I bought the tank and wait for days to have it refilled. never had a problem with my regulator and needle valve until I switched. I have the exact problem listed above by milwaukee.


my 5lb tank on my 75gal lasts about 4-6 months. depends too if you are going to have it on a timer and off at night, co2 rate you put it at. etc.

Ken


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Torpedobarb said:


> there is such a thing as dirty co2. I started getting my co2 tank filled at a local paint ball gun store.. they would do it while I waited. I before that had to take it to the shop where I bought the tank and wait for days to have it refilled. never had a problem with my regulator and needle valve until I switched. I have the exact problem listed above by milwaukee.
> 
> 
> my 5lb tank on my 75gal lasts about 4-6 months. depends too if you are going to have it on a timer and off at night, co2 rate you put it at. etc.
> ...


If you read thru that Home Brew forum link I posted there is one
guy that says the paintball Co2 gas does have oil in it.


Really shouldnt be too hard to find a local beverage supply house
to get FDA Food Grade Co2 and Co2 bottles. Stuff is widely used for
fountain drink stands in Qwiki Marts, fast food and beer kegs.


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Torpedobarb said:


> my 5lb tank on my 75gal lasts about 4-6 months. depends too if you are going to have it on a timer and off at night, co2 rate you put it at. etc.


So I might expect 12-18 months from a 5lb tank for my 20 or 29 gallon aquarium? Would I run into problems only filling my tank that often? For example, will leaks develop over time, or other things wear out because I wouldn't be switching the tank often enough? Maybe that's just a silly question, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Yes, I plan to have it on a timer and shut it off at night. Either way, sounds like anything bigger than a 5lb tank would be overkill for me. Maybe I should actually look for a 2.5lb tank?

I still plan on giving Airgas a call on Monday, but as I mentioned in my original post, I did find a local home brewing supply store (Northern Brewery). They will exchange 5lb tanks for $15. That's starting to sound more reasonable, especially if I can expect it to last a year or more. And since they sell CO2 for beverage use, I could probably assume it's "clean". :smile:

I did talk to someone at a local Fleet Farm, and they sell paint-ball CO2, for $0.20/oz. 24oz is the largest can, so $4.80 per refill. But if that CO2 as oil in it...has that been shown to be a problem, or is it just theoretic at this point? Torpedobarb, you are saying that you starting having regulator problems with the paintball CO2 refills? That's probably reason enough not to go that route.

Can standard regulators be attached to those paint ball canisters, or does it require a different setup? I see that Dr. Foster Smith sells a setup for those types of canisters, as does Marine Depot.

I'm just about ready to talk myself into doing tank exchanges with Northern Brewery. Sounds like the least hassle. But I'll see what a call to Airgas comes up with.

Thanks for all the feed back, and the brief "flame war" was educational.

Tim


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Quick followup: I just got off the phone with a guy that gets his CO2 refilled at Nardini Fire Equipment. I guess they refill CO2 tanks. And they are not too far from my home. But they are not open until Monday. Stay tuned. I'll post an update with what I find.

Tim


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

All good questions really.
_
So I might expect 12-18 months from a 5lb tank for my 20 or 29 gallon aquarium? _

If you don't have leaks, it should last that long and longer. I get about 1 year out of a 10lb tank that supplies 3 aquariums. Of course it all depends on the bubble rate/volume of CO2 that you use.

_Would I run into problems only filling my tank that often? For example, will leaks develop over time, or other things wear out because I wouldn't be switching the tank often enough? Maybe that's just a silly question, but it doesn't hurt to ask._

Nope, that's is the beauty of pressurized CO2. You rarely have to mess with it. The less you refill the tank the better, since each time you dis/connect the regulator, there is a chance that a leak robs you of precious CO2.

_Yes, I plan to have it on a timer and shut it off at night. Either way, sounds like anything bigger than a 5lb tank would be overkill for me. Maybe I should actually look for a 2.5lb tank?_

I'd go at least for the 5lb tank. Like I said, there are only advantages to less frequent refills, and you will find, that bigger tanks don't cost proportionally more to refill or switch. A 10lb tank will last twice as long as a 5lb tank, but only cost a few bux more to refill. Over here they have some fees that are the same no matter how many lb go into the tank. And the whole connecting/disconnecting thing is really nothing to enjoy.
_
Thanks for all the feed back, and the brief "flame war" was educational._

Just accept that everyone has different opinions. Educational for sure, and I gladly admit that I am often wrong (and learn something new in the process), but with "dirty CO2" it's like with "lab grade KNO3", some think it is the holy grail, others call bs. The Milwaukee quote sounds logical and convincing, and could also be a way to explain less than perfect needle valves. Everyone makes a good point, somewhere. :fish:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Reading this thread makes me want to got out and buy another co2 rig.
Thanks guys :tongue:

I never got over 4 months on my tank, and I got tired of refilling it, couldn't find the leak etc. I'm guessing that I could get more out of a tank if I started over fresh.

Maybe Christmas... or sooner... there goes more money. Sheesh.


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Wasserpest, so you use one CO2 tank for three aquariums? How do you accomplish that? Do you need separate needle valves to control the rate at each aquarium? How close are they to each other? Mine are quite some distance apart (opposite ends of the room). I would imagine that running 20-30 feet of co2 line would result in significant CO2 loss.

Regarding tank size, I'll make sure I compare prices between 5lb and 10lb. But if I have to use two separate tanks (one for each aquarium), I'll probably not invest in 10lb tanks.

Thanks,
Tim


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I use(d) one bottle for two tanks in one room and one tank in another (garage).

A manifold distributes the CO2 from the regulator to separate needle valves. From the needle valves tubing goes to the tanks.

You don't have to use more than one tank. That also saves you from having to invest in a second regulator.


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Ok, thank you for your patience with my endless questions. I'm not done yet! 

So if my tanks are 25 feet apart, I can just run 25 feet of hosing to the second tank? What type would you recommend? I thought there could be a CO2 loss with certain types? Also, "CO2-grade" hosing is about $1/foot, from what I've seen.

For your aqaurium in the garage, did you run your co2 tubing through the wall / ceiling / attic? I'm trying to picture where I'd run it without it being in the way. Maybe I should find a place in between both tanks to minimize the run to each tank.

Tim


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Like I said, all great questions! :thumbsup:

There are a couple of choices when it comes to CO2 tubing. According to a chart that has been posted in several threads, silicone tubing has the highest losses, so I would not recommend it for longer runs.

Like you mentioned, "CO2 proof" tubing is rather expensive. A long time ago I got some really thick stuff in blue from this dude, not sure if it is still the same, but he had reasonable prices for what it was.

You could use regular vinyl tubing, which, according to the chart I mentioned before, is not as permeable for CO2 compared to silicone. Some say it hardens and eventually cracks, but I haven't experienced that. This stuff is very cheap.

Recently I did a longer run, around 25ft. I used black 1/4" black drip irrigation hose, commonly available at your HD/Lowes/hardware store for little money. Seems like no CO2 can escape there (I think it is polyethylene?), and the common barbed drip irrigation connectors make connecting to other (vinyl) hose very simple. I use drip irrigation in my backyard, so I always have a bunch of these parts around.

Others (Rex Grigg) have suggested to use copper line for longer runs, and while that keeps CO2 inside for sure, connecting them to other things via compression fittings is a bit of a challenge (for me). Just connecting the icemaker on the fridge was about as much as I wanted to work with copper pipe. Plus I am not sure if it is still as affordable as it used to be.

One thing to consider with longer runs is to use a decent check valve close to the point where you inject it into the aquarium to prevent the water from "creeping back" (actually it is CO2 dissolving in water) over night, and delaying the startup the next morning.


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

When I was considering a DIY CO2 setup, I purchased about 12' of CO2 tubing, so $12 worth. Not long enough, but if I place the CO2 canister somewhere between the two tanks, it should be long enough to reach one of them.

You are right, I believe copper would be too cost prohibitive. It's not as adaptable to changing setups either. If I knew my tanks would always be where they are, then maybe a more permanent solution like copper would be worth it.

I'm considering placing the CO2 canister back by my furnace, and running the CO2 tubing up in the ceiling over to where each tank is, then drop it down to the tank. Would I still need check valves? Water does not flow uphill in that case. Or is the check valve needed to keep anything else from flowing back, such as oxygen or CO2? It almost sounds like you are implying that. Can you clarify?

Regarding needle valve placement, it would be very convenient to place that near the tank, making it easier to "see" any adjustments (such as counting bubbles.) But that would mean a higher pressure in the CO2 tubing (around 10-15psi?) I would venture a guess and say that would increase the CO2 loss through the tubing, if any were to occur, and also would make it more important to have tight fits at each connector. What are you thoughts on this?

Maybe with the black irrigation tubing, it could take the 10-15psi of pressure? It also might be a good idea to put any solenoid switch up near the tank, too, to utilize the same timer the light is on. Also, that would allow for each tank to be on it's on time schedule.

Still lots to think about. Thanks!

Tim


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## Cbwmn (Nov 30, 2007)

[COLOR=black said:


> Thanks for all the feed back, and the brief "flame war" was educational.
> 
> 
> [quotr[/FONT said:
> ...


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Oh, no...when I said "flame war" I meant that lightly, almost tounge in cheek. Maybe I should have said "lively debate". 

But your point is taken. I do try to take everything mentioned and weight it all before coming to a conclusion.

BTW, I just stopped by my local Home Depot to check some prices. 1/4" drip tubing is $7 per 100'. Good price, and a good choice for long runs of CO2.

Tim


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## Cbwmn (Nov 30, 2007)

[quote
BTW, I just stopped by my local Home Depot to check some prices. 1/4" drip tubing is $7 per 100'. Good price, and a good choice for long runs of CO2.

Tim[/quote]

Great news.
I've gotta 16 gallon about 20 feet from my 46 gallon and the 10 gallon CO2 tank. I've also got a bunch of drip tubing, so I may buy another needle valve and a manifold, then run it though the attic. Will have to wait till it's cooler though.
Charles


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

tjbuege said:


> I'm considering placing the CO2 canister back by my furnace, and running the CO2 tubing up in the ceiling over to where each tank is, then drop it down to the tank. Would I still need check valves? Water does not flow uphill in that case. Or is the check valve needed to keep anything else from flowing back, such as oxygen or CO2? It almost sounds like you are implying that. Can you clarify?
> 
> Regarding needle valve placement, it would be very convenient to place that near the tank, making it easier to "see" any adjustments (such as counting bubbles.) But that would mean a higher pressure in the CO2 tubing (around 10-15psi?) I would venture a guess and say that would increase the CO2 loss through the tubing, if any were to occur, and also would make it more important to have tight fits at each connector. What are you thoughts on this?
> 
> ...


You're asking a lot of questions that i have thought about and considered, im in the process of putting together a regulator and learning as i go. My plan is to set up my tank and regulator in a closet and then run tubing (i like the sounds of the irrigation tubing!) to the multiple aquariums. Im going to have my metering valves and bubble counters right by the tanks, and was told that was fine to do, and that it was actually better to do it that when using long runs of tubing. But even if its not better, im like you...i want to be able to see the bubble counter easily and have the valve right there so i can make adjustment and not have to be checking in the closet all the time.

Ive also thought about solenoids for each tank. Im wondering what happens to the co2 thats left in the say, 25 feet of line, when the solenoid shuts off and is at the regulator. Does it just sit there in the line until the morning? Or does it slowly bleed into the aquarium until its all out of the line? And if it does, does it really matter? Decent solenoids are fairly cheap and it might be good to be able to independently have control of co2 timing ( although im not totally sure why, haha).


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

_When I was considering a DIY CO2 setup, I purchased about 12' of CO2 tubing, so $12 worth. Not long enough, but if I place the CO2 canister somewhere between the two tanks, it should be long enough to reach one of them._

I wouldn't place the tank in the middle of the room though. :wink: 
The tubing is relatively cheap, so make that the flexible part. You can always extend existing tubing that is too short.

_I'm considering placing the CO2 canister back by my furnace, and running the CO2 tubing up in the ceiling over to where each tank is, then drop it down to the tank. Would I still need check valves? Water does not flow uphill in that case. Or is the check valve needed to keep anything else from flowing back, such as oxygen or CO2? It almost sounds like you are implying that. Can you clarify?_

Yes, you should use some good check valves. This is a bit hard to understand, but the water doesn't flow back at all. What happens is that CO2 is very soluble in water, and if you have pure CO2 in part of the tubing, and water next to it, it looks like the water "creeps back", but in actuality the CO2 dissolves in it, and is then displaced by the water.

You can also place the check valve closer to the regulator, but the delay in CO2 bubbles in the morning can be a bit confusing for some.

_Regarding needle valve placement, it would be very convenient to place that near the tank, making it easier to "see" any adjustments (such as counting bubbles.) But that would mean a higher pressure in the CO2 tubing (around 10-15psi?) I would venture a guess and say that would increase the CO2 loss through the tubing, if any were to occur, and also would make it more important to have tight fits at each connector. What are you thoughts on this?_

You are right, if you place the needle valve near the aquarium/point of injection, you have a pressurized line which might lead to leaks, depending on the materials. It would be better to use a manifold like the one I linked to, which includes needle valves, and bubble counters so you can see the result of any adjustments immediately.

_Maybe with the black irrigation tubing, it could take the 10-15psi of pressure? It also might be a good idea to put any solenoid switch up near the tank, too, to utilize the same timer the light is on. Also, that would allow for each tank to be on it's on time schedule._

Yep, if you have your tanks on different schedules for some reason, sure, you could do that too. I prefer to have one CO2 tank, one regulator, one solenoid, and then right there a manifold with needle valves, check valves and bubble counters. Then run tubing to the tank, where I add another check valve.


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

I spoke with my dad about this for a while today. He's a retired engineer from 3M, so he knows a lot about physics of gasses and pressure loss and stuff like that. He assured me that it would be best to have the needle valve close to the tank, and that the 10-15 psi of pressure in the line is very low and would not cause a problem. He said the barbed connectors would be perfectly fine and would not cause any leaking. He also said that adjusting the flow using a needle valve at one tank would have negligent affect at the other end, due to the very low flow rate coming out the needle valve. Personally, my main reason for having the solenoid close to the tank is to allow for independent lighting schedules between tanks.

I will be calling a few places tomorrow to confirm availability of refilling tanks, and will begin the process of pricing the parts needed for this setup. I'm planning to compare the cost of having one canister and a manifold with separate solenoids and needle valves (as we have been discussing), with the cost of two independent CO2 canister setups. If the cost is comparable, I will probably just purchase the separate canisters and forget about messing around with running multiple lines. But we shall see.

Tim


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## Riiz (Apr 30, 2008)

mistergreen said:


> he lives in California. We must be more understanding. An apple is like $5.


Its not that bad in Cali, yet... 

But my local Airgas only charges, $18 for a 10lb. swap, so maybe its more he's getting his tank filled instead.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yep he is. Don't know why swaps would be cheaper than refills, but it's only once a year, so I won't get all worked up about it.


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Ok, I'm starting to get some prices.

CO2 canisters are on sale right now at www.co2-canisters.com. A 5lb canister is only $57.99 ($75.62 with shipping). A 10lb canister is only $82.99 ($102.48 with shipping). And, I can get these filled at Nardini Fire Equipment Co, 5lb for $13 and 10lb for $15. So: 5lb canister filled = $88.62, 10lb canister filled = $117.48.

I asked the guy at Nardini if they could fill it while I wait. He said "that depends". They need to have a big enough order to make it worth there while to startup the equipment used in filling canisters. He said there is a 30 minute startup time. So I could call ahead and find out when they were going to be filling canisters, and coordinate when I bring mine in for filling. Of course, with a 10lb tank for my two aquariums, I probably won't be back for another 1-2 years. 

I've been reading about the Clippard solenoid sold here. Sounds like it gets quite hot. I'd like to hook my solenoids up inline near the tanks, so there will be plastic tubing going into and out of the solenoid. I'm concerned the excessive heat would be a problem, maybe melting the tubing? Are there other solenoids better suited for inline use?

Thanks!
Tim


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

I just had a thought regarding solenoids. The main reason for shutting off CO2 at night, from what I gather in reading this forum, is to save CO2 and $$$. I know that plants stop taking in CO2 when the lights go out, so it's basically wasted. I was planning on having a solenoid linked to the lights timer at each aquarium, but I think I would save some money and make things simpler if I just have one solenoid at my CO2 canister, and a separate timer running that at approximately the same hours as my aquarium lights. Then, if I chose to have one aqaurium on slightly longer than the other, having CO2 for an extra hour or two during the dark will not waste much CO2.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about: One CO2 canister to supply CO2 to two tanks. Let's say for example tank #1 has the lights on from 7am until 7pm, and tank #2 has the light on from 9am until 8pm. I would simply have my CO2 tank "on" between 7am and 8pm. That shouldn't impact the CO2 levels and shouldn't waste too much CO2 by running it 24 hours a day.

Now there may be no reason for me to run the lights on separate schedules, but if I needed to for whatever reason, having CO2 run for a few hours of dark shouldn't matter, I think. Also, the solenoids are not cheap, and I'm looking to save a few bucks. Is my reasoning sound?

Tim


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I usually drop off my tank in the morning and pick it up in the afternoon.

No experience with the Clippard solenoids, sounds like they are wasting quite some energy if they get that hot. The one that's connected to my Milwaukee regulator feels just a bit warm, and it eats about 4 watts when open.

Edit - you posted while I typed. Your plan sounds good to me.


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

Can you post a link to the CO2 accessories you use? you mentioned Milwaukee regulator. Where did you purchase that? Rex's site sells one, but it comes with the clippard regulator.

Thanks,
Tim


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I have only filled up once but it was at airgas. I took in an old tank, they charged me about $18 or so as my tank was out of date. Then $25 or so to swap for a #20lb. They were easy to deal with and swapping was a must anyway as my tank was out of date. I like swapping as it took me no time and I got a better looking tank anyway lol.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

tjbuege said:


> Can you post a link to the CO2 accessories you use? you mentioned Milwaukee regulator. Where did you purchase that? Rex's site sells one, but it comes with the clippard regulator.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tim


I use a Milwaukee MA957 regulator which comes with a needle valve and bubble counter. Since I wanted to supply multiple tanks I removed the needle valve and replaced it with the 3x manifold from AquaticMagic that I mentioned earlier.

Some have issues with the MA957 regulator, most likely bad needle valves which can be fixed by using a more expensive one. There are many regulators to choose from, 5 years ago it was pretty much just the Milwaukee and JBL if you wanted the all in ones, and I got a very good deal ($60 shipped) on the MA957. Check out sumoregulator.com or greenleafaquarium.com, both sell various regulators and parts. Don't use the Clippard regulator or needle valves, they are not precise enough. Their checkvalves should be okay.


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## redman88 (Dec 12, 2008)

i think the main advantage to exchanging the tank in stead of refilling is you don't have to pay for the hydorstatic testing. i just purchased my first regulator and tank from my local American Oxigen Gas Supply/welding supply company. spent 107 for the tank and regulator the tank is only 5lbs but is an exchangable one so i can go to any gas supply place and exchange it, the place i will be using charges 13+tax for a 5lbs. so i just need to get a needle valve and bubble counter. i was going to buy some clear tubing but i think i will go with copper or black because its very common around here for swamp coolers.


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## ootramon (Jun 4, 2009)

Does anyone know where to refill/exchange CO2 tanks near irvine, ca ?


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## redman88 (Dec 12, 2008)

find welding supply place the almost always exchange/refill


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## tjbuege (Jun 23, 2009)

As I said, a local fire equipment company will fill CO2 canisters. I just purchased a 20lb canister for $125 shipped, about the best price I could find on the net. It will only cost me $18 to fill it up. Can't beat that price. The canister just arrived today, and they can fill it tomorrow! The regulator (from GLA) should arrive tomorrow, too. The anticipation is mounting...

Tim


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