# Aging tap water to remove all dissolved gasses; how long does it take?!



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

The warmer the water the faster the gas will leave it. Good circulation will help a lot, too. 

I set the pump at the bottom, middle of the barrel so the water flumes straight up, then sheets across the surface. 

As little as half an hour will make this work for my water. It is cold in the winter, and has killed fish. About 25% hot tap water + 75% cold tap water. This makes it warm enough to add to the tank, but it needs that half hour of circulation to be degassed. I am splashing the water into the barrel to fill it, too. 

Colder water, just sitting, might take overnight or longer.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I have the 400gph pump at the bottom center running. The water is at tank temp which is 77F. So overnight is plenty of time? 

Anyway to tell when its ready?


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Overnight ought to be plenty. 

MAYBE! Pour some into a glass and see if there are bubbles? 
When it is not safe, I see bubbles on the walls of the tanks and on other surfaces. That is how I knew my tap water was not safe, and why I lost fish in the winter. 

Alternate idea: 
Set up just a small water change, and when you add the 'probably OK' water, aim the hose across the surface. More surface exposure will allow more air to off gas. A small volume of water with excess gas will not be a problem when it is blended with a larger volume of aquarium water.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Curious, for both myself and philipraposo1982, once you have gegassed the water and dechlorinated it with Prime or another product, how long is it good for? Say I use 40% of the barrel for todays water change.... can I use the rest of the water 4 days later?
Assuming it will still be good, would you keep the pump running for 4 days? Or would running a bubbler/air stone in the tank for 4 days be just as effective?


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I understand Prime and other dechlor does not lock up the ammonia or chlorine for more than a day, but I am not sure. 

First: If your water has chlorine, then it can be off gassed in about 24 hours with circulating the water. Keep the pump running at least one day. 

Second: If your water company uses chloramine, it is a bit more difficult. 

Might be a good idea to test:

1) Tap water without dechlor. (If your water company uses chloramine it will test positive for ammonia)
2) Tap water after treating with dechlor (give it a while to circulate and take effect). Q: How does your ammonia test react to the locked up ammonia? If it shows zero, GOOD! Go on to step 3. 
3) Test the 4 day old water for ammonia. If the dechlor is still effective, your test will show zero ammonia. 

If step 2 shows ammonia, even if you know it is locked up, then do not bother to test the 4 day old water, just add another dose of dechlor. Won't hurt to have more in there, if the original dose is still active. And if it is not, then the new dose will take care of chlorine and ammonia.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Thank you Diana! Somehow I figured you would have the right answer (or at least dealt with this before).


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## HDBenson (Jan 26, 2015)

Question.. or perhaps observation.. if "dechlorinator" stops working then why do we use it at all? Is there something in the tank the keeps dechlorinator "active"? Or, do we rely on nitrifying bacteria/plants to take care of ammonia?


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

What dissolved gasses are we worried about?

I am no chemist, but I would be surprised if Prime's chemical effects were only temporary.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

here is my setup,

quick video: https://youtu.be/XNaadFbdXvA

Bump:


HDBenson said:


> Question.. or perhaps observation.. if "dechlorinator" stops working then why do we use it at all? Is there something in the tank the keeps dechlorinator "active"? Or, do we rely on nitrifying bacteria/plants to take care of ammonia?


nitrifying bacteria and plants is your answer.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

:-( link is not working


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

tomfromstlouis said:


> What dissolved gasses are we worried about?
> 
> I am no chemist, but I would be surprised if Prime's chemical effects were only temporary.


i don't know which ones specifically, all i do know is that my tank is like a sprite bottle after a water change and my fish hate it. they flash after each water change every time. Simply want to remove it all.

Bump:


Immortal1 said:


> :-( link is not working


sorry it was processing on youtube. it should be working now.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Error occurred during validation, video does not exist.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

https://youtu.be/XNaadFbdXvA


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Very interesting...
Plain old tap water shows about 0.5ppm ammonia.
De-chlorinated tap water that has been sitting in my 20g reserve for 3 days shows less ammonia, but is not pure yellow (has a tinge of green).
I just topped off my 20g reserve and de-chlorinated it with Kordon AmQuel Plus and let it sit for 30 minutes or so - it tested 0.0ppm ammonia (pure yellow). 


So, I suspect here in Iowa, we use Chloramine.
I would guess the Kordon AmQuel Plus lasts longer than 24 hours, but is not perfect.
For the cost of the dose of Kordon AmQuel Plus I will just add some before the water goes into my tank.
It is a good day - I learned something 



Diana said:


> I understand Prime and other dechlor does not lock up the ammonia or chlorine for more than a day, but I am not sure.
> 
> First: If your water has chlorine, then it can be off gassed in about 24 hours with circulating the water. Keep the pump running at least one day.
> 
> ...


Bump:


philipraposo1982 said:


> https://youtu.be/XNaadFbdXvA


VERY NICE! That plastic drum should serve you well very many years. And having it that close to your tank will make water changes pretty easy.
The water here in Iowa does not have that sprite look to it, but I can just imagine doing a 50% water change and your fish freaking out. Hopefully this will help that situation.

I have a 20g water storage tank sitting under my 75g tank fish tank. Basically doing about the same thing you are except I have 3 tanks that I pump water to during water changes.


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## keymastr (May 25, 2015)

It is a bit more hassle aging the water and if you have a fish room with multiple large tanks it may not be feasible but it has made a huge difference in the quality of the water I am changing. My fish no longer act weird after a large change, or during for that matter. And I do not have to use dechlor or any other chemicals. It is the single best change I have made, Although switching to a sand substrate so the waste and dead plant matter does not get lost in the gravel is also a huge plus.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

The gases in the water are in the air: Nitrogen, oxygen, small traces of others. 
When the water is cold the gases stay finely dissolved. As the water warms the molecules coalesce into bubbles. When the bubbles are attached to something, like the fish, it can kill them. Not on the outside of the fish, but the bubbles can get inside. 

By warming and circulating the water the excess gas escapes, and then the new water us the same as the water in the tank and does not cause problems. 

When the dechlor starts releasing the ammonia and chlorine, it does so slowly. Nitrifying bacteria and plants can deal with the ammonia. 
Chlorine out gases. 

There have been quite a few posts about traces of ammonia showing up after using Prime. Interesting that Amquel Plus seems to test zero ammonia when it is locked up. I think different products have different active ingredients, and some react differently with test reagents.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I am hoping this change will have the impact that I am looking for.

This all started because of my pearl gouramis. When I first got into the hobby I was strictly using the bucket brigade method for water changes and never had a problem with bubbles. I guess the filling of the buckets plus the smashing of the water again the big driftwood as I poured it into the tank, might of been enough to agitate the water and degas it. I was also using dechlor on each pail too.

My pearls were more colorful when looking back at old videos and pics. Around the time I made the switch to the hose straight from the tap and started adding prime to the tank first than filling with temperature matched water, my pearls have never been the same. They color always seemed to be washed out, especially my big male. Also, thinking back I remember seeming my fish looking a bit off, like some of the slime.coat was missing. Knowing what I know now, I bet thats what it was due to very gassed water. 

Today will be the first time doing a water change using this aged water, I will be watching for how the fish react closely.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Another observation I just made, tested my tap water at 80 degrees right from the tap with my pH probe. It reads 7.5 pH. Each time I test my tap water I get this same amount + or - .1

With the water that has aged overnight with all that agitation, which is also heater to around 80. The pH reads 8.0-8.1

I wonder how this will effect my overall pH in my tank as I do a 50% WC.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Interesting observation on the pH. Had not thought about testing mine. Guess I have something else to learn today. Good luck with the water change - have a feeling your fish will be happier with the aged water.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Well I just got done with the water change and the difference is night and day! Not one bubble in the tank!

I watched the fish the whole time and as I write this I am sitting in front of my tank; not one fish has flashed and everyone is moving about and looking happy.

Compared to how the last 5-6 months have gone I would say this is a full 180 degree difference. Prior to aging my water, 90% of my fish would be flashing or showing signs of distress after a water change. I have always use a digital thermometer to accurately measure temp so that it matched perfectly. PH never swung around neither as my tap and tank always shared very similar pH kh and GH.

I am really glad that I was finally able to pin point what was stressing my fish this whole time. 

Hopefully this thread can help others who may experience the same or similar behaviors.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

philipraposo1982 said:


> I bought a food grade barrel that holds a ton of water, a big water pump and a heater to maintain perfect temp which I measure digitally.
> 
> I want to ensure my water has fully offgassed before going into the tank. How long would it take to degas? 1 hour? 8 hours? 24 hours or more?


 Assuming your local municipal government is the supplier and it uses chlorine then the course of action is, mix until you no longer smell chlorine. As for ammonia. If you are using co2 and enough of it your ph should not higher than 7 ( neutral) preferably less (acidic) then any ammonia left over will once it's introduced into the tank be converted to ammonium. Ammonium is easier for plants to use and much less toxic for fishies. I'm providing this quote for reference.


> Ammonia's less toxic form, ammonium (NH4). Your ammonia test kit may measure free ammonia (not bound to another molecule, such as chlorine) or it may measure the Total Ammonia Nitrogen (TAN) dissolved in the water sample. But not all ammonia is equally toxic. In acidic water, that is with pH levels below pH7.0, ammonia tends to collect an extra hydrogen ion. The positively-charged, or ionized, form of ammonia is NH4+, called ammonium. In this ionized form it is much less toxic to fish.
> 
> As pH drops, more and more ammonia is ionized to non-toxic ammonium. Here's a useful rule-of-thumb for the ammonia/ammonium ratio: for every one unit decrease in the pH measurement there's about a ten-fold decrease in the percentage of toxic ammonia. At pH 7.0 ammonia is about 0.33% of TAN, at pH 6.0 toxic ammonia represents only 0.03% of the total. The temperature comes into play also: at higher temperatures, more of the TAN is toxic ammonia. At 82°F there's almost twice as much non-ionized ammonia as there is at 68°, if the pH remains the same. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/nitrogen-cycle


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I am still using prime to dechlor. Aging my water to degas.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

One of the gases in the water is CO2. 
Tap water pH is lower, then it loses the CO2 with aeration. pH rises.

There is the test to see if the water has degased enough to use.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

philipraposo1982 said:


> I am still using prime to dechlor. Aging my water to degas.


Degassing is just as affective as chemical remedies. So save those Canadian dollars.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Oh really? Didn't know that.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Degasing works to get rid of CHLORINE. Warm, plenty of water circulation can remove the chlorine in 24 hours. 
If you can smell chlorine, then keep on circulating it. 

It does not work that fast for CHLORAMINE.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Thanks for clarifying


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