# How to get rid of detritus and fish poop.



## James4J (May 15, 2017)

I have a 20 gallon low tech planted tank. On the substrate fish poop, plant matter, and detritus fill up. This doesn't create a nutrient or algae problem because my plants eat it all up but it is very unsighty. Most of the fish and plants I have like slow currents and increasing the filter will kill my fry, shrimp and shrimplets. I was thinking that mts can bury the gunk . Or can something eat it?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Just siphon it off the top of the substrate.


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## James4J (May 15, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Just siphon it off the top of the substrate.


That is what I have been doing but it always comes back. I also don't want to siphon every day.


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## tarrant (Apr 19, 2017)

You could try Seachem Pristine, I've had a little success with it

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## NotCousteau (Sep 25, 2014)

Do you have a picture? Sounds like maybe your plants are not growing well, and are wilting and decomposing.

If you're doing regular water changes, you should not have that much fish waste. And, you shouldn't have to siphon every day.

How hig is your tank, and what kind of filtration do you have?


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Overfeeding?


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## NotCousteau (Sep 25, 2014)

P.S. MTS are NOT the answer, and frankly, I don't buy the argument that they aerate substrate. They take over is what they do.


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## James4J (May 15, 2017)

NotCousteau said:


> Do you have a picture? Sounds like maybe your plants are not growing well, and are wilting and decomposing.
> 
> If you're doing regular water changes, you should not have that much fish waste. And, you shouldn't have to siphon every day.
> 
> How hig is your tank, and what kind of filtration do you have?


Itvis a 20 gallon high. I do 25% water changes every week and use pps pro. My plants are doing really well. My swords grow new leave often but also the leaves die often. Probably because I didn't use any root tabs. I have a tetra whisper internal filter 20.

Pics


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

When it comes to excess fish waste I have to ask if you're feeding high quality food. Many of the foods today have fishmeal with copious amounts of grains as filler/binder. This filler/binder goes right through fish with little nutrient absorption. Check your label(s) and make sure the ingredients lists fish products 1st.
note: Way back when I switched to high quality foods, I noticed an amazing difference in the amount of fish waste - _believe it or not!_
Although I think MTS are extremely beneficial, and they will cleanup uneaten food, I'm uncertain about fish waste....perhaps. 
BTW, in contrast to a previous post since MTS burrow in the substrate, they do aerate and deposit plant usable nutrients.


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## James4J (May 15, 2017)

AbbeysDad said:


> When it comes to excess fish waste I have to ask if you're feeding high quality food. Many of the foods today have fishmeal with copious amounts of grains as filler/binder. This filler/binder goes right through fish with little nutrient absorption. Check your label(s) and make sure the ingredients lists fish products 1st.
> note: Way back when I switched to high quality foods, I noticed an amazing difference in the amount of fish waste - _believe it or not!_
> Although I think MTS are extremely beneficial, and they will cleanup uneaten food, I'm uncertain about fish waste....perhaps.
> BTW, in contrast to a previous post since MTS burrow in the substrate, they do aerate and deposit plant usable nutrients.


The fish food I use has krill, whitefish, salmon, and spirulina. Th 2/3 of the waste come from the bristlenose pleco


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

You need to clear the dying leaves out before the deteriorate. The sword leaves and the plant behind it (aponogetom?) have brown dying leaves. Clip them and remove them. They're making the plant weaker and turning into deitrus. Some of the brown parts of the leaves are already missing and most likely resting on your substrate.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

James4J said:


> The fish food I use has krill, whitefish, salmon, and spirulina. Th 2/3 of the waste come from the bristlenose pleco


But are the ingredients you mention listed first in the ingredient list?
Often foods list grains as the primary ingredient followed by fishmeal or fish products or fish byproducts. Fish in the wild don't eat grains making it an unnatural food for them.


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## NotCousteau (Sep 25, 2014)

That tank looks fine. No unusual levels of detritus that I can see. No tank is pristine.

If you get antsy at the sight of detritus in your tank, I doubt you will like the look of a million MTS crawling in your tank. They don't keep in check like other snails. I don't care what anyone says; I've never seen a tank with MTS that wasn't infested. Ramshorn snail populations stay in check.

Good luck.


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## DangerDonkey (May 4, 2017)

AbbeysDad said:


> But are the ingredients you mention listed first in the ingredient list?
> Often foods list grains as the primary ingredient followed by fishmeal or fish products or fish byproducts. Fish in the wild don't eat grains making it an unnatural food for them.


Any recommends on high quality flakes? Or other high quality food? I use Aqueon flakes and Hikari sinking algae wafers. 

Aqueon lists whole wheat flour, soybean meal, wheat gluten meal, wheat germ, & dried yeast. Is this what you mean by it's low quality?

I notice I have a significant amount of fish crap myself after a few days. I only feed 2 pinches once a day in a 75g with about 30 fish it in.


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

DangerDonkey said:


> Any recommends on high quality flakes? Or other high quality food? I use Aqueon flakes and Hikari sinking algae wafers.
> 
> Aqueon lists whole wheat flour, soybean meal, wheat gluten meal, wheat germ, & dried yeast. Is this what you mean by it's low quality?
> 
> I notice I have a significant amount of fish crap myself after a few days. I only feed 2 pinches once a day in a 75g with about 30 fish it in.


That aqueon stuff is crap. I use Omega One, and don't have a ton of detritus. Hikari and NLS are high quality foods


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## James4J (May 15, 2017)

AbbeysDad said:


> James4J said:
> 
> 
> > The fish food I use has krill, whitefish, salmon, and spirulina. Th 2/3 of the waste come from the bristlenose pleco
> ...


Yes I did it in order. The brand is new life spectrum and they make quality foods. I also feed frozen brine, beefheart, and mysis.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

DangerDonkey said:


> Any recommends on high quality flakes?


Yes, Omega One uses fresh Atlantic fish and kelp. Almost Natural is another food that's high in quality, but shipping costs can make it a bit expensive.
Both have several different flake and pellet foods.

I lean towards Omega One and routinely use Freshwater, Veggie, and Color Flakes as well as Veggie Rounds. Fish produce very little waste - I believe because they can better process the food.
There are other high quality foods but you have to read the ingredient list!


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

When speaking of the quality of fish food, I'm confused about something. I went to get food for my cories. Always seen Hikari recommended, so I picked that up. Surprised to read the ingredients list: _Fish meal, wheat-germ meal, wheat flour, starch, soybean meal_ are the first five! How is that quality food? why do I always see it recommended when it apparently has more fillers than the Aqueon sinking wafers: _Whole Fish Meal, Whole Wheat Flour, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal_ first three, then _shrimp meal_. 

I'm still mostly feeding my cories shrimp pellets (_Whole Shrimp, Whole Salmon, Cod, Whole Herring_ are the main ingredients) but would like to find something else to give them... (I soak omega one betta pellets for them too. I have tried blanched zucchini and they weren't very interested).


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

In my experience anything laying about on the substrate fish poop,mulm,detritus, and or large snail population ,is sure sign of possible/probable overfeeding.


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## DangerDonkey (May 4, 2017)

JJ09 said:


> When speaking of the quality of fish food, I'm confused about something. I went to get food for my cories. Always seen Hikari recommended, so I picked that up. Surprised to read the ingredients list: _Fish meal, wheat-germ meal, wheat flour, starch, soybean meal_ are the first five! How is that quality food? why do I always see it recommended when it apparently has more fillers than the Aqueon sinking wafers: _Whole Fish Meal, Whole Wheat Flour, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal_ first three, then _shrimp meal_.
> 
> I'm still mostly feeding my cories shrimp pellets (_Whole Shrimp, Whole Salmon, Cod, Whole Herring_ are the main ingredients) but would like to find something else to give them... (I soak omega one betta pellets for them too. I have tried blanched zucchini and they weren't very interested).



Anybody have any input on this regarding Hikari?


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

JJ09 said:


> When speaking of the quality of fish food, I'm confused about something. I went to get food for my cories. Always seen Hikari recommended, so I picked that up. Surprised to read the ingredients list: _Fish meal, wheat-germ meal, wheat flour, starch, soybean meal_ are the first five! How is that quality food? why do I always see it recommended when it apparently has more fillers than the Aqueon sinking wafers: _Whole Fish Meal, Whole Wheat Flour, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal_ first three, then _shrimp meal_.
> 
> I'm still mostly feeding my cories shrimp pellets (_Whole Shrimp, Whole Salmon, Cod, Whole Herring_ are the main ingredients) but would like to find something else to give them... (I soak omega one betta pellets for them too. I have tried blanched zucchini and they weren't very interested).


First off, fish meal is not a filler...but it's not necessarily high quality for several reasons. First it's often made from assorted fish parts that are unfit for human consumption. That includes a wide range of pieces parts. It's ground, dried, and loaded with preservatives and sits in a warehouse until it ordered by a fish food manufacturer. Because it's a dry meal, it requires copious amounts of starch to bind it together to make flakes, pellets or whatever....wheat, rice, bran, gluten...add more preservatives and it sits in a warehouse and then on a store shelf until you buy it and take it home.
I can't directly answer why some folks swear by brands made with fish meal and main ingredient binder/fillers. "The fish eat it and they seem to do well?" "It's inexpensive and I use a lot?" "It's the one I use so it must be good?" .... who can say. I'm sure many don't read the labels. They buy what's on the shelf at a particular store or hear something is good and take it on face value... It's only when you look closely to see the real truth.
Now let me qualify the above to point out that not all fish meals are created the same and some may be made from whole fish that just aren't suitable for human consumption.....still, the large amounts of binder/filler makes them a lower quality than some others.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

AbbeysDad said:


> First off, fish meal is not a filler...but it's not necessarily high quality for several reasons. First it's often made from assorted fish parts that are unfit for human consumption. That includes a wide range of pieces parts. It's ground, dried, and loaded with preservatives and sits in a warehouse until it ordered by a fish food manufacturer. Because it's a dry meal, it requires copious amounts of starch to bind it together to make flakes, pellets or whatever........


Ok, yeah. I have been reading more about fish food ingredients and hadn't realized there was different qualities of fish meal. Also found out that only some of the types of food made by Hikari have the fish meal and wheat flour as main ingredients- their other foods look better (but aren't sinking or forumlated for catfish/loaches, which is what I was looking for). I guess my point is, even with a well-reputed brand like this reading the labels can be revealing. I was certainly surprised.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

JJ09 said:


> When speaking of the quality of fish food, I'm confused about something. I went to get food for my cories. Always seen Hikari recommended, so I picked that up. Surprised to read the ingredients list: _Fish meal, wheat-germ meal, wheat flour, starch, soybean meal_ are the first five! How is that quality food?


If you're in the market for something different that resembles actual fish food and not a list of fillers, look into NorthFin. My fish are not fans of the Repashy I bought, so I had to find a alternative. I've been feeding NLS for what seems like forever, but they add chemicals to their food which I don't want in my tank or in my fish. Northfin doesn't use chemicals and their diets are clean. You won't find a prepared diet that is void of all fillers, I've looked. However, the less fillers there are which are used as a binder to hold ingredients together, the better. Below is the ingredients list for NorthFin's Community Formula.



> Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, High Omega-3 (DHA) Herring Meal, Whole Sardine Meal, Wheat Flour, Kelp, Spirulina, Garlic, Astaxanthin (Haematococcus Algae), Calcium Montmorillonite Clay, Vitamin A Acetate, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphospate (Source of Vitamin C), D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), DL Alphatocopherol (E), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Thiamine, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Selenium, Zinc.



Community Formula - NorthFinUSA

If I feed my fish NLS and NorthFin, they always go after the NorthFin first. If they can avoid eating the NLS, they do. Although my tanks are not allowed to become 'dirty', I've noticed through water testing for nitrates I don't have the nitrate increases as I have in the past with other foods. I did water changes and tank cleanings yesterday. Nitrate levels where were I left them last week. The 10 gallon: 7 ppm The 40 gallon: 10 ppm.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I get that some fillers are needed. But I don't like seeing them listed among the first three or four ingredients. I've never seen North fin on a shelf, guess would have to look into ordering that online. What chemicals are the ones you're concerned about, in NLS? That's another brand I have always seen recommended among the best!


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

JJ09 said:


> I get that some fillers are needed. But I don't like seeing them listed among the first three or four ingredients. I've never seen North fin on a shelf, guess would have to look into ordering that online. What chemicals are the ones you're concerned about, in NLS? That's another brand I have always seen recommended among the best!


Aside from dyes they use with their flake formula, the bigger problem with with a chemical called Ethoxyquin. It is a fat stablizer that is known to cause cancer and other issues. There is a FDA report about it here: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=573.380

Like with anything, there is much debate over how much is considered safe. I'd rather not have to deal with it at all. NLS will not say if they use it or not. If they didn't, there is no reason to avoid such conversations.

I have to order NorthFin foods as I can't find them locally or on the store shelves of our LFS. I order small amounts as that's all I need. The fish in the 40 are fed every other day, the fish in the 10 gallon are fed daily. Pellets are calorie dense, so they get enough to eat and that's it. 

There are excellent articles about fish food / nutrition on Oscarfish if you're interested. Fish Food Ingredients


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I buy small containers of a variety of flake or pellet's and mix them together in tupperware tub, and keep in the fridge.
Fishes get a wider variety this way and I am not too concerned with anything but protein level's for fry when they appear.
With the exception of some of the larger cichlids I have cared for ,most of what the fishes eat, passes through the fish fairly quickly so a larger variety makes me feel better that they get much of what they need and don't tend to focus on one food and maybe refuse other's.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Grains, soy, ect... are used to bolster protein numbers. Companies that make other kinds of pet foods and even companies that make processed human food do the same thing. Soy has no place in a fishes diet. It serves no benefit and results in more poop with less actual protein a fishes' body can use and metabolize.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Smooch said:


> Aside from dyes they use with their flake formula, the bigger problem with with a chemical called Ethoxyquin. It is a fat stablizer that is known to cause cancer and other issues. There is a FDA report about it here: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=573.380
> 
> Like with anything, there is much debate over how much is considered safe. I'd rather not have to deal with it at all. NLS will not say if they use it or not. If they didn't, there is no reason to avoid such conversations.
> 
> ...


I was actually just reading that same article yesterday! Very eye-opening. I did not know before about the lake dyes. I have had two bettas now die of what looks like some kind of cancer before they are 3yrs and I am wondering if it is caused by the food - even though I thought I was giving them good food, maybe not. Sad to learn.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

fishchoice, mainly your pleco will produce a lot of waste. Not overfeeding, waste will accumulate on top of the substrate no matter what. This is a never ending battle for you weekly if you want to rid of it, fluff and siphon, but they'll continue to produce this waste. I've seen with multiple types fish and used multiple type substrates.


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