# Fishless Cycling with Live Plants



## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

Hi everyone

Thanks to this forum, I believe I have everything needed to set up my new 30 gallon aquarium minus the fish. I will have a pretty heavily planted tank from the get go and will perform a fishless cycle. One piece of equipment I’m missing and wonder if needed is air stones/pump. I’ve read articles saying I need it and other opinions saying it’s not needed. Any insight on this?

Edit: I have a Aqueon QuietFlow LED PRO Aquarium Power Filters 30 - 200 GPH

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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

You mean an airstone for the fish. I never use one and you definitely shouldn't need it with an HOB. If your planting heavily just get the plants growing and then slowly add fish after a month or so. You shouldn't need to add ammonia or anything else. Depending on your setup and plant choice your plants will need either co2 and/or fertilizer.


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> You mean an airstone for the fish. I never use one and you definitely shouldn't need it with an HOB. If your planting heavily just get the plants growing and then slowly add fish after a month or so. You shouldn't need to add ammonia or anything else. Depending on your setup and plant choice your plants will need either co2 and/or fertilizer.




If possible, I’d like to stay away from Co2. What type of fertilizer would you recommend? Below is the plant stock. 

Anubias Nana 

Anubias Nana Petite

Java Moss portion

Java Fern

Cryptocoryne Wendtii Brown

Thanks for the insight!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Heavily planted is in the eye of the beholder.
If you truly are heavily planted small quantity of fish over a few weeks should work.

If you do cycle with ammonia test kit for NH3 is a must.
Excessive ammonia can burn/melt plants.
1ppm would be my limit with plants in tank.


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Heavily planted is in the eye of the beholder.
> If you truly are heavily planted small quantity of fish over a few weeks should work.
> 
> If you do cycle with ammonia test kit for NH3 is a must.
> ...


I'm questioning if I am actually "heavily planted". The plants that will be in my tank are 3x of each plant on my list above. After watching Aquarium Co-Op video about planted live cycles, I may opt out of the Ammonia supplement. I do have a test kit however. Is that a correct way of doing it? I will also be using Thrive as recommended. I just need to figure out proper dosage or "pumps" per day or week.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

The plants you've list are slow growers, so prolly about half the Thrive recommended dosage will be fine. Also, as mentioned, if you just add a fish or two at a time, you should be fine.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Small plant load maybe dose 1/4 of prescribed Thrive. Monitor NO3 @ end of week.

Brought up ammonia because many have burned up/melted many plants starting and cycling a new tank. Either from dosing to much ammonia or using a substrate that releases ammonia and not doing WC's


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Small plant load maybe dose 1/4 of prescribed Thrive. Monitor NO3 @ end of week.
> 
> Brought up ammonia because many have burned up/melted many plants starting and cycling a new tank. Either from dosing to much ammonia or using a substrate that releases ammonia and not doing WC's


Thanks for the help. I will probably need more! lol

I'm assuming you are a guppy lover? I think I would be too. My next excursion will be figuring out my stock. I want guppies for sure, I just need to find tank mates and a "centerpiece" fish ranging from 4-6". I'll probably be calling on you soon on that! :smile2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Moscow guppies is something my wife started years ago.

I have been selling off the phish.
Going "Phishless" has been my goal, I'm in it for the plants.

One exception, even with just plants mulm will still accumulate.
Decayed plant matter etc... so I got a small school of 8 Corys.
They keep the substrate agitated just enough that I no longer vacuum the substrate.
If there is visible substrate.:grin2:
I feed them a high quality sinking pelleted food and no water quality issues.

As I convert all the tanks to capped soil a small school of Corys will be kept in each.


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Heavily planted is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> If you truly are heavily planted small quantity of fish over a few weeks should work.
> 
> ...




I’ve planted my tank. However, I don’t think it’s “heavily” planted. I’ve started my cycle at 1ppm. I will check it in the morning as well. Based off what you see, do you change your recommendations on thrive and/or ammonia?











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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

That's pretty lightly planted really. Heavily planted is more along the lines of....










Bump: Or even this...


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

Nubster said:


> That's pretty lightly planted really. Heavily planted is more along the lines of....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah. I think I was envisioning way more! Lol. I’m looking at mine what should my Ppm goal be?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Get some water sprite two or three bunches.
Light's on no more than eight hours total for the day.Place the lighting on timer where you can get the most viewing time.
Dose fertilizer at dose called for for your size tank.
Perform water change once a month till fishes arrive, and then weekly.
Clean filter material monthly.
Clean glass inside with clean paper towel folded into fourth's weekly.
Pick up some more anubia,crypt's whenever you can.
See.. "silent cycling with plants".
Pinch of fish food every other day just like you might feed a few small group of guppies in the tank mentioned should provide for nitrifying bacteria, and some bacteria arrives on plant's.
No real need for ammonia unless you use it sparingly such as the 1ppm mentioned .
My two cents.


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

roadmaster said:


> Get some water sprite two or three bunches.
> Light's on no more than eight hours total for the day.Place the lighting on timer where you can get the most viewing time.
> Dose fertilizer at dose called for for your size tank.
> Perform water change once a month till fishes arrive, and then weekly.
> ...


Yeah, I'm keeping my ammonia dosage down. At what point should I "re-up" to 1 ppm? Thanks for the knowledge drop, btw! :smile2:


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Every couple days if one insist's on using ammonia.
I personally think a few small guppies in 30 gal tank with plant's and afore mentioned every other day feeding would present next to no harm to fishes or plant's and tank would mature(cycle) at slow steady pace.


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

Alright guys.. I have a couple of questions.

My tank has reached the point where ammonia is at 0 ppm in less than 24 hours. 2 ppm to 0 in about 18 hours. For now, I’m dosing the ammonia back up when it hits zero. I’m reading conflicting information regarding the nitrites. Shall I continue adding ammonia until both the ammo AND nitrite levels drop to 0 in 24 hours? I’ve also read that once your ammonia cycle is complete to stop dosing ammonia to get nitrite to zero... which is it?

Also, my plants are showing melt and rot. I've gotten some advise and they've said that this is normal in a fresh tank. Is there anything I need to do to help reverse the melt?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

1ppm of ammonia would have maybe not caused the melt.

The only plant I have ever had melt in a new tank are crypts.
Huge water parameter changes make them shed their leaves.

If you continue dosing ammonia 1ppm or less as said before.

Are you testing nitrates?
High nitrates will stall cycling, proven in other threads.

Typically when cycle is complete a dose of ammonia should show zero NH3 & zero NO2 in 24 hours or less.
This means everything is converted to nitrates(NO3).

Ammonia and nitrates can be used by plants, ammonium(NH4) is the fastest consumed.
I do not believe nitrite(NO2) can be a form of nitrogen for plant's consumption.


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

Nitrites dropped today. Not to zero, but close


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> 1ppm of ammonia would have maybe not caused the melt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Pictures of the rot or melt.






































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## novitt (Nov 15, 2005)

I ran my tank with just tap water for about 5 years and the plants grew fine. If you water comes from a resiviour there are enough nutrients in it from surface runoff. The plants grew fine, even lush, without any added nutrients so that's enough to cycle. If you wanted to you could just feed as if you had fish and the food would be broken down all the same, with or without passing through a fish. 

You do not need fish to cycle a tank.


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