# New Lighting for a 150 gallon- 6 ft open top tank.-UPDATED! GROWTH PICS!



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

YOu could use two 36 inch long Finnex RayII LED lights, in one row across the top of the tank, right on top of the tank, and get about 30-35 micromols of PAR - very good low light.

If you hang the light a foot above the top of the tank you will just about have to use either a custom made LED light or a 4 bulb T5HO light, possibly made for you by Catalina Aquarium. That light would be about 40 inches from the substrate.


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Hoppy thanks so much! I honestly was very pleased you answered my question.

I would like to have the lights a foot above the tank for ease of access. The LED have always interested me but were too expensive until I found a link to :

http://buildmyled.com/freshwater-lights
Freshwater Planted Tank Lights - What width of light do I choose for an 18 inch wide tank with the lights hung a foot above? Was looking at two 36 inch one with the suspension kits.

Or: http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=71_83&products_id=1219

These are 250 WATT METAL HALIDE PENDANT LIGHT FIXTURE [PEND250W]

Would two or three work best if I chose those? I really like the look of pendants but would the energy saving of the LEDs be better in the long run?


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

dastowers said:


> Hoppy thanks so much! I honestly was very pleased you answered my question.
> 
> I would like to have the lights a foot above the tank for ease of access. The LED have always interested me but were too expensive until I found a link to :
> 
> ...


With this combo of led's you'll get a high color rendering index ( CRI ) of 91 at 5500K color temperature. The standard against which all lighting is measure is sunlight with a CRI of 100. 

525nm Green
525nm Green
730nm Far-IR
5000K
6500K
5000K
5000K
6500K
590nm Amber
5700K
660nm Deep Red
6500K
470nm Blue
6500K
625nm Red 

If you can wait the owners are going to include cyan led's soon. This will fill in the led *blue gap all white light leds have at this time and at the same time improving the CRI. 

MH lights are very hot and will cost you money in electricity usage.

*6500K led










P.S. Adding green led's does increase the apparent brightness because human vision is most sensitive to those wavelengths.


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Steve, thank you for the information. I would wait but I only have the stock terrible LFS strip that came with the setup. The ballast hums and I am going to go crazy- not to mention the light is awful. 

What angle should I chose? Keep in mind I would like to hang these 1 foot above the tank for ease of access.

Select Beam Angle
Narrow - 30 Degree
Narrow/Med - 45 Degree
Medium - 60 Degree
Med/Wide - 75 Degree
Wide - 90 Degree


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I would use 60 degree optics, because that prevents any serious spillover light - the individual LED beams would be about a foot in diameter at a foot distance, but would cover the substrate very well, with lots of light reflected off the glass to the substrate. Once you hang a LED light that high above the tank you can get good lighting with either a single row of LEDs or a double row, with the rows just a couple of inches or so apart.

Because the 60 degree optics make the beam be 12 inches in diameter at 12 inches distance, you will want the light to be about a foot shorter than the tank length, to avoid lots of spilled light at each end of the tank. This will reduce the light intensity near the ends, too, so if that isn't acceptable you will need to allow for the spillover someway, perhaps using a deep housing for the light that blocks most of that spillover.

I'm not yet convinced that we need to be concerned about CRI for planted tank lights. If you don't consider that, the light can be a lot simpler, and less prone to having colored shadows in the tank.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> I'm not yet convinced that we need to be concerned about CRI for planted tank lights. If you don't consider that, the light can be a lot simpler, and less prone to having colored shadows in the tank.


Configuring these leds into a pendent style might take care of the expected colored shadows if they in fact do occur, but which hasn't been shown to occur conclusively. For example in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cRHcaPcY8w starting at 5:53 the Acan rep is demonstrating their Prism light. You'll notice no colored shadows. Further into the vid the interviewer at 8:00 minutes mentions he see's no individual colors of light.

6500K leds have a good spectral distribution as is, but they have a blue gap. Adding cyan leds would fill in the gap and hopefully creating a high CRI at the same time.


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

So two 24 inch LED lights would be better than the two 36 inch lights because of the spill over? I was wondering if it would look too cluttered with the two 36 inch light- which would have to touch. That would be enough light if I chose the 60 degree angle and two 24 inch lights? OR one 48 inch one? Thank you! I am going to order them today once I get the confirmation from you. LOL!


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

dastowers said:


> So two 24 inch LED lights would be better than the two 36 inch lights because of the spill over? I was wondering if it would look too cluttered with the two 36 inch light- which would have to touch. That would be enough light if I chose the 60 degree angle and two 24 inch lights? Thank you! I am going to order them today once I get the confirmation from you. LOL!


Before you order the lights, be sure they will give you the PAR you want. The shorter the LED light, the less PAR it gives you (within some limits.) What specific lights are you going to order?


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Update: Spoke to one of the owners Nick at Build My Led for about 25 minutes. He suggested two 48 inch LED- at a 75 degree angle. Freshwater show tank with hanger. 

What I didn't realize in my "visualization" of the tank is the LED are only 2 INCHES wide! What? Amazing. I am going to stagger them slightly and will post pics when they arrive.


I can't tell you how much I appreciated all your help - Steve and Hoppy. I will post pics once I get them. 

FYI...he does have Cyan leds in stock and can add them if anyone wants them to their light order.


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## minicrazy592 (Apr 1, 2010)

I have 3 of their fixtures with my own spectrums and love them. I got to see the "show tank" spectrum the other day. It made the colors just pop in the tank and judging by the pearling, the plants were happy too! Keep us posted!


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

dastowers said:


> I can't tell you how much I appreciated all your help - Steve and Hoppy. I will post pics once I get them.
> 
> FYI...he does have Cyan leds in stock and can add them if anyone wants them to their light order.


Glad to help. If you speak to Nick would you ask him if they are planning to put these cyan leds into their interactive build applet and let me know? I'd like to test the assumption that adding cyan would produce a closer approximation to noon sunlight then without.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

minicrazy592 said:


> I have 3 of their fixtures with my own spectrums and love them. I got to see the "show tank" spectrum the other day. It made the colors just pop in the tank and judging by the pearling, the plants were happy too! Keep us posted!


Hoppy is worried there will be color shadows on the interior. Did you see any such thing or did you see a even blend of light ?


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## minicrazy592 (Apr 1, 2010)

Steve001 said:


> Hoppy is worried there will be color shadows on the interior. Did you see any such thing or did you see a even blend of light ?


I have one spot in my 30C where there's a color shadow and it's in a deep crevice between two rocks. You can't see it unless you're looking directly from the top plus there's no plants in there. 

With the 75 degree lens, the color blends at a minimum of 2" (give or take) away from the fixture.


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## Build My LED (Nov 24, 2012)

Hi Steve. Just a heads up...I configured a 97 CRI spectrum tonight that used 2 Cyan LEDs. See if you can better it once the Configurator is live on the website 

Nick


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Build My LED said:


> Hi Steve. Just a heads up...I configured a 97 CRI spectrum tonight that used 2 Cyan LEDs. See if you can better it once the Configurator is live on the website
> 
> Nick


I'll take a look once you have it set up. 
Do you know offhand what the color temperature is with that configuration ?

While replying I was recalling when I was a volunteer at the Baltimore National Aquarium back in the late 90's even then I foresaw the practical application of leds in planted tanks.


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## Build My LED (Nov 24, 2012)

Steve001 said:


> I'll take a look once you have it set up.
> Do you know offhand what the color temperature is with that configuration ?
> 
> While replying I was recalling when I was a volunteer at the Baltimore National Aquarium back in the late 90's even then I foresaw the practical application of leds in planted tanks.


Of course. I built the spreadsheet with the algorithms, so I get to see all of the metrics  It was a 5500K spectrum, but I personally don't pay attention to the kelvin scale. By itself, it doesn't tell you anything about a lighting system, as you can have multiple color lights that are the same CCT (i.e. kelvin temp). Various lights can look completely different, even though they have the exact same kelvin temp. I prefer to look at the X and Y chromaticity coordinates and the spectrum, which can be used to calculate the CRI and color saturation effects.

Nick


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Build My LED said:


> Of course. I built the spreadsheet with the algorithms, so I get to see all of the metrics  It was a 5500K spectrum, but I personally don't pay attention to the kelvin scale. By itself, it doesn't tell you anything about a lighting system, as you can have multiple color lights that are the same CCT (i.e. kelvin temp). Various lights can look completely different, even though they have the exact same kelvin temp. I prefer to look at the X and Y chromaticity coordinates and the spectrum, which can be used to calculate the CRI and color saturation effects.
> 
> Nick


Thanks for informing me.

You are right about K temperature *alone not being an appropriate standard by which to determine spectral distribution but my hunch, ( I could be wrong ), is when K temp is coupled with high CRI like you have it will center around 5500K which appears to be the case. 

Hears another hunch. A true yellow diode or one very close to true yellow will create and even higher CRI, perhaps even match sunlight at noon.

* In another thread not to long ago I had mentioned how different lights with the same K temperature can and do have different spectral outputs among them.


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## minicrazy592 (Apr 1, 2010)

Hoppy I snagged these pics in case you were curious about my color shadows:


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Build My LED said:


> Hi Steve. Just a heads up...I configured a 97 CRI spectrum tonight that used 2 Cyan LEDs. See if you can better it once the Configurator is live on the website
> 
> Nick


A CRI of 98


5700K
5000K
6500K
470nm Blue
505nm Cyan
505nm Cyan
4500K
3000K
525nm Green
525nm Green
4000K
5000K
590nm Amber
625nm Red
590nm Amber

Other than the CIE chart what information do the other graphs give me ?

One other question does the configurer allow the user to select fixture size? I can only configure a 12 inch fixture.


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## Build My LED (Nov 24, 2012)

Steve001 said:


> A CRI of 98
> 
> 
> 5700K
> ...



Nice, Steve. I created a 98 CRI with different LEDs earlier this week, as well  The Configurator lets you build 12", 24", 36" and 48" fixtures. What browser are you using? Try Firefox or Chrome. 

For a deep dive on the various charts, check out the advanced tutorial video on our site and/or YouTube. 

Nick


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Build My LED said:


> Nice, Steve. I created a 98 CRI with different LEDs earlier this week, as well  The Configurator lets you build 12", 24", 36" and 48" fixtures. What browser are you using? Try Firefox or Chrome.
> 
> For a deep dive on the various charts, check out the advanced tutorial video on our site and/or YouTube.
> 
> Nick



Firefox. I'll give Chrome a go.

For some reason Chrome or Firefox allows me to only configure the 12 inch. Even tried Internet Explorer with the same result


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## Build My LED (Nov 24, 2012)

Hi Steve. Our web developers are looking into it, but we cannot recreate the issue. Nobody else has had this issue. Any chance you can try on another computer? I will let you know what they say.

Nick


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## UDGags (Sep 13, 2009)

Don't you always create only 12" and the pattern is repeated? I've only ever been able to put in 15 lights no matter what length I choose.


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## Build My LED (Nov 24, 2012)

UDGags said:


> Don't you always create only 12" and the pattern is repeated? I've only ever been able to put in 15 lights no matter what length I choose.



That is correct. However, it sounded like Steve could not select the other fixture length options.

Nick


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## UDGags (Sep 13, 2009)

To me it sounded like he wanted to pick more than 15 lights...like 45 for a 36".


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## Build My LED (Nov 24, 2012)

OK. I thought the radio buttons would not let him select the longer fixture options. For all fixture lengths, you pick any combination of 15 LEDs for a 12" PCB, and we build those boards end-to-end for longer fixtures. 

Nick


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

UDGags said:


> To me it sounded like he wanted to pick more than 15 lights...like 45 for a 36".





Build My LED said:


> OK. I thought the radio buttons would not let him select the longer fixture options. For all fixture lengths, you pick any combination of 15 LEDs for a 12" PCB, and we build those boards end-to-end for longer fixtures.
> 
> Nick


 Yes, that's what I thought you could do, because it says in step 1 choose the fixture length. I see I misread the instructions.


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Sorry for the LONG delay, thought I had uploaded them to this site but didn't. Low quality iPhone 4s pics. :-( These are two 48 inch, "PLANTED SHOW TANK LIGHTS" from Buildmyled. The lighting is very gradually light and shadows for the Discus. Nick was very helpful! Actually I harvested the plants from this tank TWICE during the three weeks and lightly planted a 75 gallon bowfront and heavily planted 42 gallon bowfront (which has these lights also). The Amazon Sword mother plant (left corner) has been very generous also- lots of babies. They were out of control- in a good way. LOL!

Here they are: Installation day 12/11/12









Lotus 3 weeks ago when lights installed:









Picture taken today 3 weeks later. Notice the growth on the Lotus especially:


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)




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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Too make it easier to see the growth difference I cropped these:


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Check out the growth in 5 and half hours on this lotus. Notice the rolled leaf behind the one in the center? This is it now. C02 dialed in and EI ferts (all this morning). Not to be a crazy person but this is amazing!!


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Pearling on the lotus- close up. (water change day is not until tomorrow)


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Not sure if anyone is following this but here is 24 hours later. The curled leaf has grown into the one in front of the largest red discus. Amazing.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Looks amazing! Your Discus look fantastic and the tank is really filling in nicely


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

Amazing tank. Very beautiful.


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## Sajacobs (Aug 24, 2012)

Lights are beautiful. Tank is beautiful. It's amazing to see the plants change. Even the fish stand out. 

Do you have co2 on your tank?


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you for the kind comments. Yes, just switched to Co2 a few days ago and to the EI fert system. Was using Excel and Flourish over the three weeks of growth but I did have a great chance to discuss with Tom Barr my system and he suggested I read all I could about Co2 (as I was apprehensive) and make the leap. Goodness..I am glad I did. 

The system I decided on is a GLA Ultimate Co2 System with a 15 # cylinder. Added the Oracle Drop Checker. So to help with my learning curve -fail safe wise the tank has a bubble counter, drop checker and a ph controller. Also I am able to watch the fish VERY closely as they are in my office only 6 feet away.


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## niko (Mar 8, 2006)

Are these lights with the 30 degree angle on the LED?

When you look at the tank in real life is the middle part (where the lights overlap) lit much stronger than the sides?


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

These are 75 degree angle lenses suspended about 8 inches above water. You can see a difference where the lights overlap but it is very gradual and reminds almost everyone who sees it of the sunlight streaming through the water. The rippling effect of the overflow/sump return creates beautiful dapples on the ceiling. I couldn't be happier with the choice of lights.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Looks great. I guess I consider you to be a bit brave delving into the realm of LEDs when you already knew that T5HOs would do the job. I still have some research to do on LEDs. The link to the site with which you dealt (buildmyled) is helpful.

If you are experiencing that much growth, do you have any plans to dial back the light a bit? If so, will you use a dimmer or merely raise the lights a bit?

Your fish look awesome and you have a very interesting collection of plants. Keep posting pics.

PS on a tank that big, you may want to move the drop checker from time to time to make sure everything is ok.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

dastowers said:


> Thank you for the kind comments. Yes, just switched to Co2 a few days ago and to the EI fert system. Was using Excel and Flourish over the three weeks of growth but I did have a great chance to discuss with Tom Barr my system and he suggested I read all I could about Co2 (as I was apprehensive) and make the leap. Goodness..I am glad I did.


Using pressurized co2 is a quick learning curve. Once you do it the apprehension everyone seems to have before hand disappears.


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

Co2 was a bit of a learning curve. I shorten the photo period to 7 hours per day. The growth with Co2, EI and the lighting was FRIGHTENING. I couldn't cull the plants quickly enough to allow room for the discus. The Blue Hygro has leaves at nearly 6 inches long. That made a single stem almost a 8 inches wide.. The lotus grew so much I removed it and put it in the large Peacock Cichlid tank in the den. 

Over the last month I have added L. Atlantis and a few other red plants. Goodness, the dozen or so stems I started with have quadrupled since they have been trimmed several times and I even moved a huge bunch to the Peacock tank. Too much. 

Just ordered a great selection of plants from Tom Barr. Excited to see how these do.


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## Sajacobs (Aug 24, 2012)

Please post pics when you get a chance. After seeing the difference in your plant growth I'm considering adding co2 setup to my tank. It's great to see a newbie can be successful with it.


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

I have six (yes 6 tanks) packed with plants now from all the growth in the 150g and a few newly purchased ones that are multiplying.

co2 and Tom Barr's EI are like crack to plants. Truly. Cheap and very easy to do. Additionally I have discus and do a 50% water change every week with RO water as my well has a TDS of nearly 750.


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## Ashnic05 (Jan 7, 2013)

I just read through this entire thread and plan on checking out the buildmyled to see what I can come up with. Your plants look amazing!


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

What's new with the tank dastowers?


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## cosm3 (Apr 23, 2013)

Very nice! What did you use to hang the lights?


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## Sajacobs (Aug 24, 2012)

Any up dates? I just bought my light from build my led because of your pics and recommendation. Thanks.


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## ChugBug (Mar 17, 2016)

I realize this is an old thread, but I would love to see a longterm update if you have one


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