# Mineralized Topsoil Journey



## Pickled_Herring (Jul 26, 2010)

*Hang in there*

Hang in there I'm going to start on my soil Sunday also in spite of the rain. I also went out and purchased timberline from Home Depot. The drying part will be a trick though.


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## mike2lane (Mar 30, 2010)

Today is step 2. I took a little fish net and skimmed pieces of bark off the top and then drained most of the water. It seemed like the water was more like mud than water, and made me wonder if I was dumping out the good stuff??? I guess that's what makes this a journey, lol. 

Next, I took a 6x8 ($5 @ Lowe's) tarp and used the straight end of a steel bow rake to spread out the soil. Here it is spread out in the Miami sun:
http://db.tt/5hPci5T
http://db.tt/wieFZ8V

Here is a close-up:
http://db.tt/92qjM2H

Since the water from the top seemed to contain suspended soil in it, I chose to put the mixture on the tarp while still pretty moist. It might take a day longer to dry, but, hey, this is the important part when the mineralization takes place anyhow. Here is the runny part I am talking about:
http://db.tt/IsXFlq4

I'll check back in when it is dry.


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## mike2lane (Mar 30, 2010)

@ Pickled_Herring: Well, the wet season does not disappoint. We got a downpour for about 3 hours last night. How'd you guys do up in Boca?

I'm thinking that to have the topsoil spread out like it is, well oxygenated in the rain, might help the mineralization process (so long as the rain is not polluted :0). After about 15 minutes of rain, I went out and covered it with another tarp. Now this morning, as usual in zone 11, the sun is out, and the day is beautiful. I hate it, and I love it, haha.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Why don't you just routinely cover the mud with the second tarp every night? Doesn't most of the rain come at night? The rain isn't going to do any harm, other than preventing you from ever drying the mud out. In fact you could even rely on the rain to do the soaking part of the mineralizing - lazy man's mineralizing?


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## ridewake210 (Jan 12, 2007)

Mike, 

Looks like your doing a great job so far. 
I havent gone this route yet but may have to.
So im going to be watching this thread closely. 
Love the step by step progress with pictures.


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## Pickled_Herring (Jul 26, 2010)

Hi Mike it seems like it hasn't stopped raining here. I put an empty 55 Gallon tank outside last Wednesday and it's almost full today just from rain water. It's hard to believe that they still have us on water restrictions. Anyhow did you notice a lot of cypress mulch mixed in with your topsoil? I think that I'm going to run it through some strainers as soon as it dries out a bit. There's way too much wood, mixed in, for my taste.


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## ridewake210 (Jan 12, 2007)

You should strain it anyways, rather you think it has too much wood or not.


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## mike2lane (Mar 30, 2010)

Hi Hoppy and Sean. Thanks for the support. I did take Hoppy's advice to cover it every night, but....... of course the rain has decided to start falling during the early afternoon off and on every hour or so for the last 2 days. I have still not had the soil dry once. (Sigh)

@Pickled_Herring: Oh man, it's been ridiculous. I think all this Atlantic activity making its way to us from west Africa is causing it to feel more like a rain forest over here. I guess we shouldn't complain; it could be a hurricane  Insofar as the wood chips, yes there are quite a few in there. I will definitely run it through a sieve (if it will ever dry!) I will be happy to get 25% of the original weight back once it's mineralized.

As the journey now stands, the topsoil is still laid out, covered in a tarp, which the lawn company saw fit to uncover and scatter with grass clippings today. :angryfire No doubt my lawn guys think I am batsh*t crazy now, seeing how mad I got over a tarp covered in mud (and they are probably right, all things considered). I am trying to remain steadfast, but all this rain and other drama is really starting to frustrate me. I just keep telling myself how much work this will all save from not having to dose for years.


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## Pickled_Herring (Jul 26, 2010)

Yeah I should have strained this soil from the get go. I didn't realize how much cypress was in there and I thought that what was in there would float to the surface. It didn't. The wood is holding the water and keeping the soil from drying out. It's doing a great job of that which is why its so popular down here and used as mulch. I think I will pick up 2 more bags of soil today and strain those and start over.


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## Nue (Dec 27, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> Why don't you just routinely cover the mud with the second tarp every night? Doesn't most of the rain come at night? The rain isn't going to do any harm, other than preventing you from ever drying the mud out. In fact you could even rely on the rain to do the soaking part of the mineralizing - lazy man's mineralizing?


Im down with this lazy man mineralizing, If I leave the tarp uncovered the nightly sprinklers get it pretty wet. Then it dries in the day.


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## Guns286 (Sep 17, 2009)

I got basically the same topsoil. I dont remember the name but it was organic, no fert's or peat (at least, it did'nt say it had them in it). I forgot to get chicken wire but I had a roll of window screening left over from another project, so I strained the soil through that. Just a note to anyone reading this; find chicken wire! Although the screening gets ALOT of the other debris out of the soil, it takes FOREVER to do. Anyway, I ended up with a large bucket full of, what looked like, coffee. After it soakes for a day, and then dryes for a day (or so), I strain it again and start the process over. I would add pictures but, they look exactly the same as the ones above. 
How many cycles of wet, then dry, do you guys thing it's going to take to "mineralize" the soil?


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

when I did mine, I went through the wet and dry cycle until the soil does not smell too "awful" when soaked. This took about 4 wet dry cycles.


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## DevinWolfe (Aug 1, 2009)

You REALLY want to take your time with mineralizing the top soil. If you rush it and leave organics in the mix you can end up like this:

http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/DevinWolfe/?action=view&current=DSCN0332.flv


http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/DevinWolfe/?action=view&current=DSCN0333.flv


My system only took a couple weeks to turn into a death trap. When I tore it down I dug through the soil and found lots of small pieces of wood I missed by skimming the top while it was soaking.

I replaced it all with Soil Master Select and never looked back. The tank was transfered to a 40-Breeder a year later with the same inhabitants/plants/substrate and is running really well.


Just my experience with MTS.


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## Guns286 (Sep 17, 2009)

When you say "small pieces of wood", how small are you talking about? Like I said, after my soil dryes, I rub the chunks through the extremely small holed window screen, before soaking again. I just got finished doing it, at a matter of fact. Before I added the water, I noticed very small, thin pieces of wood in it. These pieces are thinner then a sewing needle, and about half the length. I cant imagine that these size pieces would cause too much of a problem but, you never know. I'm hoping they will ALL disappear with further screening.


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## DevinWolfe (Aug 1, 2009)

I mean about the size of a marble and maybe a bit larger like nickel size or so.

I rushed mine and didn't screen it well enough. Just showing what not taking your time can do, but you seem to be doing a much more thorough job than I was.


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## mike2lane (Mar 30, 2010)

@Keithy & @Guns286: Thanks for the advice. I have decided to go with 1/4" Chicken wire ($11 at Home Depot), and I have customized a tray using just the wire and scissors. Here is my sieve (try not to laugh!):
http://db.tt/MnfR2qv
http://db.tt/cwfhKH2
http://db.tt/MtKuCJF

@Pickled_Herring: I hope this is what people mean by 'chicken wire.' So, cypress, huh? That explains why there are wood chips in the topsoil that don't float. I had removed the floaters, but I did notice that there are still a substantial number of these cypress chips left. I'm hoping that the 1/4" wire will at least serve as a good first sifting medium for those. If not, I'll try metal window screen.

*Update* on the drying: If the rain can hold off for today, I think I might be able to sift and re-wet this evening. Finally, thank GOD. (lol) I am not trying to sift perfectly; I mainly want to get the large chunks of random crap out of the topsoil. I should also note that I go outside every now and then and use the rake to stir things up. I have found that this evens out the drying, since there are pockets of super-moist soil randomly throughout. Also, the smell is pretty bad when I do this.

@DevinWolfe: Thank you so much for sharing your bad experience with us. I know that sucked for you, but in telling it here, you have confirmed for me to remain patient and steadfast in the process. If anything, I might over-mineralize; although, I think that might not be possible. . .


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## Guns286 (Sep 17, 2009)

DevinWolfe said:


> I mean about the size of a marble and maybe a bit larger like nickel size or so.
> 
> I rushed mine and didn't screen it well enough. Just showing what not taking your time can do, but you seem to be doing a much more thorough job than I was.


This is my first time trying it so I guess I'm going all out. Also, it gives me an excuse to sit outside, away from the crazy kids and wife, for a half hour or so :hihi:.

*Mike2Lane*; Your screening rig looks good. Mine looks almost exactly the same, except I used some scrap 2x2's to build a square frame and then nailed the screen to it. You might want to think about doing something similar because the weight of the dirt will cause the middle to sag into whatever receptical you are straining it into. The frame will keep it in place.

Tonights screening will be extra interesting because my landlords gardner came, cut the grass, and now there are little blades of grass scattered all over my dirt! Great...........


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## ridewake210 (Jan 12, 2007)

Oh man!
Thats a bummer about the grass clippings



Well, good luck
Take some pictures


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## mike2lane (Mar 30, 2010)

I have finished the first sifting. Things went smoothly, and (@Guns286) the grass clippings from last week's lawn job came out. After the first round, there were still some larger chunks of soil that I had to work with my hands to break up and re-pass through the sieve. Following are pics of the finished product.

*Topsoil after sifting:*
http://db.tt/Aw4aBEU
and up close: http://db.tt/90olw9h

*Here is the debris that was filtered out:*
http://db.tt/VCDb5GO
and up close: http://db.tt/hnIGV33

Now, I have the wheelbarrow filled back up with water soaking the topsoil. I will dump the water out and spread the topsoil over the tarp again tomorrow morning. Waiting two days seems unnecessary, as I intend to complete the wet/dry process many more times than recommended, during which time the soil will flush free of chemicals et al. Plus, I am so excited to see if it dries faster without the cypress holding water as before.

NOTE: There is still a substantial amount of wood in the soil mixture. My estimate is about 50% of the weight of the post-sift topsoil is smaller wood chips and/or splinters. I suppose it is good that I chose to do three (3) cubic feet of topsoil instead of two (2), as I might've not had enough for even a Betta bowl! Also, the next sift will be through a smaller sieve. I guess it's back to Lowe's to find the best material. Maybe steel window screen?


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

MAN, i am SO glad i found this.
i was using the same bag of topsoil that you got but there was too much wood debris mixed in so i just gave up. i never thought of just using multiple bags and then getting the debris out. I'm sure with two bags i'll have enough actual soil to do the bottom of my tank.

and yes, its been raining like crazy up here in north central florida. its crazy, but at least the heat and the sun would help to dry the material down.


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## Guns286 (Sep 17, 2009)

Well, I think I'm down to my second-to-last cycle. I just got my clay and I'm going to soak and dry one more time, then mix them. 
Mike, I wanted to post pics of what my dirt looks like after straining through the window screen material, so you can see it.

















It gets pretty fine. Which I think will be good, in the long run.
Bill


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

The soil looks nice. Don't drive yourself crazy trying to get the soil completely dry. If it stays constantly moist in a thin layer the mineralization will actually proceed quicker. The point of laying it out is to get more O2 into the soil pores for the aerobic bacteria to do their job. The description just became a wet/dry cycle, not because you HAVE to get it dry but because you lay it out on a tarp in a thin layer and that usually drys it out fairly quickly in warm weather. The important part is that there is no smell of rotting vegetation when you get the soil wet. You want it to smell clean when you get it wet.


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## mike2lane (Mar 30, 2010)

Thank you guys for the pics. Wow, this is a LOT of work. Lordy. 

Not much is happening right now, as I am going through wet/dry repeating phase. I have learned a few things which will save some time and energy if I ever go to do this again.

(1) This particular topsoil is 70-80% waste matter. Buy 6-10 times what you expect to have in the end.

(2) Upon first purchasing, I would lay it out to dry immediately. This way, I can get junk out without having to manage 100 pounds of stuff. The wood chips in it take up a lot of space and slow down the drying process substantially. Plus, that extra weight and matter is a pain in the ass to deal with, and it's unnecessary trash! I will make it my #1 priority to remove wood chips and debris if I ever do this again (although I doubt I will).

(3) After drying completely, upon the first 5 minutes of contact with water, the wood floats and can be removed with an aquarium fish net. Because the wood in this topsoil sinks when wet, the first few minutes of wetting are the most important.

(4) Using the rake to stir up the soil as it dries in the sun aids in drying and makes it less clumpy.

If I think of anything more, I'll let you guys know.


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## ridewake210 (Jan 12, 2007)

Good stuff 


I just got done sifting 120lbs of top soil today. 
Im going to do another 200lbs next week.


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