# Fish died after water change



## pkeeler (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm new to aquariums and this forum. Sorry to start off with such a bummer of a thread. I've searched the forums and found similar problems, but I think I have something different going on. 

I got a 50 gal aquarium about 10 days ago. We have well water at my house, so there is no issue with chlorine. I've tested the well water and the pH is on the low end (6.2). Out of the hose the water is pretty cold. When I filled the tank, I had serious outgassing with millions of little bubbles. I let the tank sit and ran the filter and heater for a day, until the temp got up to 70-75. I then added three fish (cherry barbs) to start the cycle. 

My ammonia level the next day went up to 1.5, and I did a 15% water change. I used warm tap water, but it was a hassle, to avoid giving the fish the bends. My ammonia dropped back to 0.5. I wanted a planted tank (why I'm here), and started adding plants. Java moss, hornwort, some stem plants, vals, anubias, crypts. It was only then I checked the lighting on the tank and found it to be two 15w bulbs. Definitely not enough for many of the plants. I ordered new lights, which are on the way. 

However, many of the plants do look sickly. I will trim them when the lights come, and see if they start to grow. However, since that first little spike, my ammonia level has never gone above 0.5, and it probably closer to 0.0. I never showed any nitrites, and only maybe very low levels of nitrate (which might be present in the well water) or none. I thought that my adding plants (I didn't dip them), added colonies of bacteria which was keeping up with the low fish load (I added two white clouds, so 5 small fish in a 50 gal. tank). I doubled the fish to 11 (5 white clouds and 6 cherry barbs), and they were all very happy.

I went to do a partial water change yesterday, and changed maybe 15% of the water. I had filled a 5 gal. water bottle with well water and let it sit overnight to warm it. When I poured that water in, some of the fish immediately went to the surface and gasped. The aquarium temp after the addition barely dropped (73 to 72). I didn't see much evidence of degassing (just a a handful of bubbles, nothing really). 4-5 fish died within the next few hours (I actually had added another cherry barb, after the water change, which showed no problems). I thought maybe the fish lacked O2, so I lowered the level to make the HOB create more bubbles.

One possibility I'm thinking of, besides CO2 poisoning, is that the plants, starving for nitrate, were taking bicarbonate out of the water and softening (?) it. I had tested the tank water the day before and the Alkalinity was 7.8 and the hardness was ~75. But I think my well water is harder than that (100-150). But it was only 15% water change. 9 out of the 11 fish died. I will probably just let things be until the new lights come, but I'd like to figure out what went wrong because I will have to do water changes again of course.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Maybe you just got a sick supply of fish. Cherry barbs are relatively hardy and often recommended as a good cycling fish. Many people cylce new tanks with cherry barbs without incident.


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## binders (Mar 22, 2009)

Could it have been something that was previously stored in the 5 gal water bottle that you used to bring the water up to temp? Just a thought.


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

Stop doing water changes. You've done 2 on a new tank, and it's only been up for 10 days? During cycling, I wouldn't change water period for the first 30 days, at a minimum. Ignoring cycling, with that fish load, you would probably want to do a small water change once every few months.

You've probably got some other problem that you are exacerbating.

You didn't mention a CO2 system. If you're not adding CO2, CO2 poisoning is not occurring. If you only have a handful of fish, you don't need to worry about adding O2.


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## houstonhobby (Dec 12, 2008)

I would focus on the plants first, then worry about fish. When your plants are growing strongly you won't need to worry about cycling so much. The plants will soak up ammonia like a sponge.


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## Autumn Wind (Apr 15, 2009)

If you used a 5 gal water bottle to store water then because of the narrow neck of the bottle the water did not have sufficient surface area to gas off. If you can add an airstone to aerate the water and I bet you will have a much better result. 
You do need to continue the water changes to control the ammonia levels as the tank goes through the cycle process. Test water for a spike in nitrites and then a spike in nitrates will signal you tank has cycled. You can also use an ammonia sponge in the form of a filter medium or a water additive like Prime to help with ammonia spikes.
What type of substrate are you using?
Patience is your best bet. Cycling a tank can tank weeks and if done wrong or rushed will do nothing but create headaches in the future.


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## chicken (Aug 22, 2007)

On a cycling tank, I do water changes daily if necessary to keep ammonia levels below .5 ppm. 

I wonder if the tap water got contaminated in some way, or was markedly different from the tank water?

edit: Just read AutumnWind's reply. Hadn't thought about the narrow neck of the water bottle; perhaps the suggestion of an airstone is worth tryiing.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

With that many fish dying in so short a time I would think you had some pollutant in the water. I also wonder if there may have been some contaminant in the bucket. If you have kids maybe they added something to your water and you didn't know it.

Do you have another light you can just shine on the tank until you get your others, desk lamp or something? If other plants are struggling they will start dying releasing ammonia into the water column. I don't think that's the reason your fish died this time as you tested the ammonia and nitrite levels. 

I would:
1. pack your tank with plants to speed up water cycling.
2. continue to change water if you still have fish in there.
3. get a new bucket
4. use a mixture of hot and cold water and add prime
5. get more light on the tank


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

And you might want to consider using tap water if the conditions are ok. And I agree kid creole that you should stop doing water changes. The whole point of the ammonia in the water is that your bacteria build-up. If you constantly keep the food supply for the bacteria low then there is nothing that allows them to grow. And then the cycle lasts a lot longer. And why do you cycle with fish? Just leave the water be and throw in some fish food. That decays releases ammonia and the bacteria will grow from that.


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## pkeeler (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanks for all the quick replies 

There should never have been anything in the water bottle but water. Plus, the fish added after the change (an hour later) seems completely unaffected. I stirred the water in the bottle, vigorously, a few times. It is hard to believe that adding 5-7 gal. to 45 gal. would impact the water chemistry enough to kill so many hardy fish. 

I understand there are different ideas about cycling and changing water and how to do it. I'm more worried about the long term. I will have to change water and my only practical source is the well (buying gallons of spring water doesn't seem practical). 

My tank alkalinity was 7.8 and my well pH is 6.2, if I use those CO2 charts it shows ~100 ppm CO2, well above safe/optimal. Now, I probably don't have that much CO2 right? Probably phosphates? Could that be an issue?

Would five 2 gal. water changes over a time period equal one 10 gal. water change over the same time period?


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

Relax. It's a marathon, not a sprint. 

No, you don't have 100ppm CO2. 

Read up on test kit calibration, or stop testing your water. You don't need to test it.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

See the link below. Ammonia only takes on a toxic form at higher temperature and PH levels With the PH level your tested water was at and depending on your temperature, I doubt that your fish died of ammonia toxicity. Like I said, you likely had diseased fish to begin with. Over the years of fish keeping, I have cycled many fully uncycled tanks using cherry barbs without casualities. IME, it takes a lot to kill them.
http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

pkeeler said:


> Would five 2 gal. water changes over a time period equal one 10 gal. water change over the same time period?


No. The water get mixed so you will be removing a portion of the water you just added.


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

plakat said:


> No. The water get mixed so you will be removing a portion of the water you just added.


Hold on. 5 gallons in a 50 gallon tank is a 10%, 10 gallons is 20%. So if you have something at 10ppm that you want to remove, and you do a 20% water change, you get down to 8ppm. If you do two 10% water changes, you get down to 8.1ppm. Are they the same? No. Are they equivalent? Yes. 

Is there any reason why the OP should be doing any water changes? No, IMO.


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

kid creole said:


> Hold on. 5 gallons in a 50 gallon tank is a 10%, 10 gallons is 20%. So if you have something at 10ppm that you want to remove, and you do a 20% water change, you get down to 8ppm. If you do two 10% water changes, you get down to 8.1ppm. Are they the same? No. Are they equivalent? Yes.
> 
> Is there any reason why the OP should be doing any water changes? No, IMO.


He is doing it 5 times not twice so the difference gets larger. Taking the original 50 gallons and doing a 10g water change would have dropped a concentration of 10ppm to 8pm where as 5 2 gal changes would be closer to 8.5ppm. 

I was just trying to point out they are different and that is something the OP should be aware of.

I also agree the OP should not be doing water changes.


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## pkeeler (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

plakat said:


> He is doing it 5 times not twice so the difference gets larger. Taking the original 50 gallons and doing a 10g water change would have dropped a concentration of 10ppm to 8pm where as 5 2 gal changes would be closer to 8.5ppm.
> 
> I was just trying to point out they are different and that is something the OP should be aware of.
> 
> I also agree the OP should not be doing water changes.


Ha ha. After 6 beers last night I read that as 2 5 gallon, not 5 2 gallon. :thumbsup:


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

pkeeler said:


> Thanks everyone


Hang in there, and keep coming back. Let us know how you do. You'll see some amazing tanks around here if you look through the journals, and every single one of those tanks started with an owner who was where you are now. (Don't look at mine, I'm closer to you than I am to some of these pros.  )

You have a good attitude. Good luck.


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