# Coffee FILTERS???



## Frau Frankenstein (Jul 22, 2010)

Hey anybody ever try using the funnel shaped cofffee filters as cheapie water polishers in their canister filter? could it harm my fish? i know they make those unbleached filters and i was tempted to experiment.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

I don't think they would be very effective.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

i dont see why it would be unsafe... May be to fine to work properly, but i dont think there is anything impregnated into them that would harm your fauna.


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## Frau Frankenstein (Jul 22, 2010)

I shall take one for the team!!! I was gonna cut them up and layer like 3-4 in one of my trys and give it a go


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## Kipley (Apr 24, 2010)

Drip filtration?

I don't think you can get much water flow through them, but let us know.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

I bet they would work great for water polishing, but may inhibit the filters flow a bit.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

You might also want to try the dry dusting swiffers. Ive been using them for years and they are totally safe.

I doubt they catch small particles like a coffee filter would, but they wont reduce the flown like coffee filters will.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Maybe I should try making coffee in my 2217...

FF, that is not going to work...


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

xmas_one said:


> Maybe I should try making coffee in my 2217...
> 
> FF, that is not going to work...



They would work but with two hang ups:

They will significantly inhibit flow, so if you wanted to use them, a constant trickle system would be best.

and

They'll break down, after all, they are paper.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

jmhart said:


> They would work but with two hang ups:
> 
> They will significantly inhibit flow, so if you wanted to use them, a constant trickle system would be best.
> 
> ...


Right, they don't work...


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

xmas_one said:


> Right, they don't work...


well, they work, it's just a matter of whether or not it's worth the effort to replace them.

I'm not sure what the micron size is on your typical coffee filter, but by the mere fact that they allow coffee to pass through them, they wouldn't work as well as most micron filters at removing tannins and green water.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

jmhart said:


> well, they work, it's just a matter of whether or not it's worth the effort to replace them.
> 
> I'm not sure what the micron size is on your typical coffee filter, but by the mere fact that they allow coffee to pass through them, they wouldn't work as well as most micron filters at removing tannins and green water.


really... coffee filters in a canister filter?? that works, and you're signing your name to that?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

xmas_one said:


> really... coffee filters in a canister filter?? that works, and you're signing your name to that?



Why not, we stuff polyester fiber fill in there all the time?

I'm not saying it's the best option, or even a good one...but that's not what the OP asked. Just trying to bring something to the conversation, besides "no, it won't work" without any supporting arguments.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Micron filters don't remove tannins do they?

I've actually wanted to try this for a while but never have gotten around to it... I've just been using bonded pond filter media instead and stuffing that into my filter baskets, haven't really needed to do more than that.

Are ya'll sure they would reduce flow more than a micron filter would? The reason coffee makers drip rather than force water through coffee grounds has to do with ideal water exposure to the coffee grounds (picking up flavor) rather than the water permeability of the filters themselves...


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Micron filters don't remove tannins do they?
> 
> I've actually wanted to try this for a while but never have gotten around to it... I've just been using bonded pond filter media instead and stuffing that into my filter baskets, haven't really needed to do more than that.
> 
> Are ya'll sure they would reduce flow more than a micron filter would? The reason coffee makers drip rather than force water through coffee grounds has to do with ideal water exposure to the coffee grounds (picking up flavor) rather than the water permeability of the filters themselves...



My Vortex removes tannins (at least to some degree) but that is supposedly 1 micron, maybe a typical 5 or 10 micron doesn't.


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## Kipley (Apr 24, 2010)

I just took a coffee filter and an elastic band and attached to my kitchen faucet. I turned the flow on to about what you'd get from a drinking fountain. The filter inflated (the inflow at that low level was far greater than the outflow), and within 10 seconds a hole appeared in the bottom of the filter to release the pressure.

Based on my far less than scientific experiment, I say this is not a workable filter medium.

But I am curious to see it play out in a cannister filter...


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Kipley said:


> I just took a coffee filter and an elastic band and attached to my kitchen faucet. I turned the flow on to about what you'd get from a drinking fountain. The filter inflated (the inflow at that low level was far greater than the outflow), and within 10 seconds a hole appeared in the bottom of the filter to release the pressure.
> 
> Based on my far less than scientific experiment, I say this is not a workable filter medium.
> 
> But I am curious to see it play out in a cannister filter...


Well, and my response is less than sound, but...

Typical water pressure in a house is ~30 psi, typical water pressure in a cannister filter is < 5 psi. Who knows how much pressure your rubber band exerted on the faucet....but, do you see where I'm going?


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

jmhart said:


> Well, and my response is less than sound, but...
> 
> Typical water pressure in a house is ~30 psi, typical water pressure in a cannister filter is < 5 psi. Who knows how much pressure your rubber band exerted on the faucet....but, do you see where I'm going?


oh my god, you don't give up do you?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

xmas_one said:


> oh my god, you don't give up do you?


Well, no, I'm never closed off to new ideas, and further I'm always open to discussion, because while one idea may not work, another might come out of it that does.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

jmhart said:


> Well, and my response is less than sound, but...
> 
> Typical water pressure in a house is ~30 psi, typical water pressure in a cannister filter is < 5 psi. Who knows how much pressure your rubber band exerted on the faucet....but, do you see where I'm going?


I doubt that the rubberband was even able to withstand 5 psi, but, that's just my mostly unscientific response to your mostly unscientific results. :icon_cool


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

jmhart said:


> Well, and my response is less than sound, but...
> 
> Typical water pressure in a house is ~30 psi, typical water pressure in a cannister filter is < 5 psi. Who knows how much pressure your rubber band exerted on the faucet....but, do you see where I'm going?


Is <5 psi as measured coming out of the outflow tube? B/c then the pressure across any given square inch of filter media would be just a fraction of that, too...

I'm gonna give this a try one of these days...

What's the worst that could happen, a slurry of paper mache all over my tank? :hihi:


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## Kipley (Apr 24, 2010)

30 psi if I opened the water to full flow. Again, I opend the fauced less than a full turn, perhaps not even a 1/4 turn to get a large trickle like a water fountain. We are not talking a fire hose here...lol.
Got a coffee filter? Quite an easy expiriment to replicate yourself. The rubber band around a metal faucet will have no effect on flow, no matter how tight it is.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Kipley said:


> 30 psi if I opened the water to full flow. Again, I opend the fauced less than a full turn, perhaps not even a 1/4 turn to get a large trickle like a water fountain. We are not talking a fire hose here...lol.
> Got a coffee filter? Quite an easy expiriment to replicate yourself. The rubber band around a metal faucet will have no effect on flow, no matter how tight it is.


The rubberband won't have an effect on flow, true, but it'll have an effect on pressure which is the real issue. 

The coffee filter busted before the rubberband was pulled off the faucet. At best, the whole filter would have been under 30 psi of pressure at the point it busted, but at worst it could have been < 1 psi. The rubber band held it, so we know that the filter withstood somewhere between 0 and 30 psi, and other than that, we can't tell based on this one experiment....

...I'm completely agree understand it was unscientific, I do it all the time, so I'm not challanging that, I'm just providing a counter point.


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## Kipley (Apr 24, 2010)

So if I get this right, the rubber band sealed the filter (which is what I wanted it to do), creating back pressure. Sort of like a sealed canister filter? Back pressure because the paper impedes flow, right? So in a canister filter, there won't be back pressure since it is an open system (both ends open preventing a pressure build up), the top will not pop off the canister filter, it just won't have much flow through the filter, right?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Kipley said:


> So if I get this right, the rubber band sealed the filter (which is what I wanted it to do), creating back pressure. Sort of like a sealed canister filter? Back pressure because the paper impedes flow, right? So in a canister filter, there won't be back pressure since it is an open system (both ends open preventing a pressure build up), the top will not pop off the canister filter, it just won't have much flow through the filter, right?


Pressure exerted by a cannister filter is simply that force which is exerted by the cannister filter's pump to overcome resistance within the cannister system(meaning, the return trip back to the tank). That resistance is somewhat from friction inside the tubing, but mostly from gravity...that's why pumps have a headloss rating. That head loss directly corresponds to it's pressure.......but I digress.

So, if you overload a cannister filter, and thus introduce more resistance requiring more than 5 psi, then you'll have no flow. So if the coffee filter introduces less than 5 psi to the system, and if it's capable of withstanding that kind of pressure, it would work. 

I'm not sure how long it would last before the paper started to dissolve or how well it would work as a micron filter...who knows, it might not be any better than polyfil.


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## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

After reading this thread, maybe the question should be, what are you trying to remove from the water by "polishing" it?

Depending upon the source of the problem, there would be different methods to polish the water that would be safe and effective.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

DaveK said:


> After reading this thread, maybe the question should be, what are you trying to remove from the water by "polishing" it?


Small stuff. :icon_mrgr



> Depending upon the source of the problem, there would be different methods to polish the water that would be safe and effective.


I think the question here is- would/could coffee filters be cheap and effective replacements for micron filter pads?


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Dang it's 10:30 at night and now I want some coffee!


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## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

I've used chemex filters as water polishers before. They don't last long at all, like maybe 12 hours tops before they start to break down. Great at clearing funk from a newly laid substrate though. I've also cut pleats out of a heat pump filter and used that. It holds up a lot better, and you are looking at about 5-6 dollars for about 2 square feet of material(just make sure they're not the antimicrobial kind).


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

*The filters:*
Cheap paper coffee filters: 15-30 microns
Magnum micron filter: 8 microns
Diatomaceous earth: ~0.8 microns

*The filtrates:*
Diatomaceous earth: 15-30 microns
Greenwater algae: 5-10 microns
Bacteria: 0.5-1.5 microns (if memory is correct for the few I've bothered to look up)
Suspended particulates (substrate dust, organic material): any size, but smaller particles tend to remain in suspension longer

So paper filters can achieve partial removal of particulates, but not much else. They can however be charged with diatomaceous earth. No comment on the practicality or wisdom of using them vs. micron pads.


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## mattycakesclark (Jun 11, 2010)

MMMM cooffee.

What will get the filter is not necessary the pressure applied to it, but the pressure difference across it. When brand new, when it will flow quite easily, there will be little head loss across the filter medium because it is clean. Just like how a filter will flow faster when clean then dirty, less head loss across the filter media and more pressure produced by the pump is used to push flow.
When the media becomes dirty, the head loss across the media becomes greater, creating a pressure difference across the media. A coffee filter, which is paper, would not hold up well against this pressure difference, it would begin to fail, unless it has some supporting backing.
If you have baskets, try putting it under a normal coarse pad, and see how it holds. Can't hurt unless it snags up the impeller 
I used some really really fine foam fry savers on a HOB filter, with UV to "polish" out green water after a substrate change. I would pull the foam off every day and clean it, and it was really really really dusty


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

If you like cleaning it everyday, put it on your outflow.


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## Surgeon (Jun 17, 2011)

personal experience -

I did some planting and had an inquisitive loach try and dig through some clay pellets. Flocculant hasn't really done the job and in Aus chemicals are almost always expensive. Had some paper coffee filters and figured "why not".

Reduce your pumps outflow to very little. Get two filters and get them over your pumps outflow (wire tie and bulldog clip). I arranged the filters so as little seam as possible overlapped. Turned up outflow until the filters inflated a little but didnt look about to burst. Seem to be doing a decent job getting out laterite dust but yes the pads ARE paper and I dont expect them to last long (not that I need them to!)


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

hello August of 2010!


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