# Siamese algae eater or Flying fox?



## JoesonKim

I just bought these 2 fishes today. Please help me to identify these fishes. Their fins are crystal clear. They have a black stripe from their mouth all the way to the tip of their tail. Are these siamese algae eater or flying fox? Thanks in advance


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR

those are siamese algae eaters.


i used to have 4 of them.
they turned into nasty little worthless things that ate more discus food than algae.


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## Natty

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> those are siamese algae eaters.
> 
> 
> i used to have 4 of them.
> they turned into nasty little worthless things that ate more discus food than algae.


Actually, I think they're fake SAEs aka chinese algae eaters.

Why? The line doesn't go all the way past the base of the tail.

Flying foxes and true SAEs do.

Search me for my threads, a few members here and I were talking about the issue and went through a few websites. 

I'm at least pretty certain they're not SAEs. Unless, of course, your pictures are THAT blurry. A better picture would help, but based on those pictures, I stand by what I say.

Those guys also lose quite a bit of color when stressed out, that has also caused me some identification issues.

There's also a fish that looks similar, without barbs near their mouths, and they're neither SAEs, CAEs, or foxes. It was mentioned awhile back if you do a search for people having similar issues to yours.


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## chase127

actually CAE's have a staggered stripe, like a checkerboard. it also doesnt have the HUGE sucker CAE's do. i cast my vote for SAE since the stripe does go all the way to the back of the tail. 

if i had a nickel every time this topic was discussed  

can someone make something like this a sticky?


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## t0p_sh0tta

lol, I picked up what I thought were SAEs today. I found a really good thread here regarding identification.

The 2 that I picked up have ZERO color on the dorsal fin and the black stripe extends past the base of the tail.

However, after about an hr in my tank they are getting noticeably darker (not quite flying fox'ish, but darker than the SAE pics that I've seen).


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## JoesonKim

here are some other pictures.


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## t0p_sh0tta

Horrible pic of mine, but it looks identical. Expect them to darken up by tomorrow.










Edit: the black stripe on mine also extends past the tail, but are SAEs normally this dark?


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## Natty

*@JoesonKim*

Yeah, those are SAEs.

It's because of the blurry pictures that you had in the first post. I thought the line ended at the base. :hihi:


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## JoesonKim

Flying fox also has a black stripe that end up at the tip of their tail too, but there is another yellow stripe along with the black stripe, am I right? I read some thread, they say both, Flying fox and Siamese Algae Eater, look the same when they're stressed


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## Natty

JoesonKim said:


> Flying fox also has a black stripe that end up at the tip of their tail too, but there is another yellow stripe along with the black stripe, am I right? I read some thread, they say both, Flying fox and Siamese Algae Eater, look the same when they're stressed


Flying Foxes (middle stripe goes past base, but they have top black stripe)









CAE (Same as foxes, only line doesn't go past base)









and yours are SAEs


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## chase127

why cant we just get otos and know what they are :hihi:


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## Natty

chris127 said:


> why cant we just get otos and know what they are :hihi:


I don't know about that Chris, I have to see the stripes on that to identify it.

It might be a fake otto cat for all we know aka Chinese Otto :hihi:


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## chase127

goes to google to look up "chinese oto" 

youre safe!!!! roud:


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## JoesonKim

Let see if tomorrow they change their color or not. Hope they are not


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## chase127

my flying fox colored up in about 5 minutes after acclimation/introducing him to my tank. youre probably set with SAE's


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## Natty

JoesonKim said:


> Let see if tomorrow they change their color or not. Hope they are not


I actually have 3 SAEs that I'm not sure they're SAEs.

Sometimes I think I see a black band, signifying that they're flying foxes, but then when morning hits, the band sorta fades and I barely see it.

Unfortunately for me, they don't really do much to the algae situation anyway, so they can mutate/morph/evolve however which way they want. Either way, it doesn't effect me anyhow :hihi:

Also, JoesonKim, I suggest when buying SAEs, you buy them as young as possible. From my experience, the adults seem to go after fish food more than anything.

I mean, of course when you're looking, they pretend to clean your plants. They know what we want and they're two-faced about it. Scary eh?


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## fish dork

Natty said:


> Flying Foxes (middle stripe goes past base, but they have top black stripe)
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CAE (Same as foxes, only line doesn't go past base)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and yours are SAEs


 
I believe your 'CAE' is actually a 'False' SAE, not to be too picky. CAE have a sucker mouth and don't really look like Foxes, SAE or False SAE.

Chinese Algae Eater
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...Eater&um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-au&sa=N


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## Natty

fish dork said:


> I believe your 'CAE' is actually a 'False' SAE, not to be too picky. CAE have a sucker mouth and don't really look like Foxes, SAE or False SAE.


I thought:

CAE = Fake SAE?

Actually, the one picture you pointed out might be that fourth fish that I mentioned awhile back that they're neither CAE, SAE, or foxes.

Chris, I think I just might get otos from now on. What a mess.

There's also a few varieties of chinese algae eaters.


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## JoesonKim

oh I have another question. I got 33 fishes and some snails in a 50g tank. Is it over stock? thanks for your idea


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## chase127

EVERYONE JUST BUY OTOS LEAVE THE FOXES, SIAMESE, AND CHINESE ALONEEEE!!! 

theyre so much more efficient algae eaters, so much funner to watch pile up on a fresh slice o' zucchini


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## Natty

JoesonKim said:


> oh I have another question. I got 33 fishes and some snails in a 50g tank. Is it over stock? thanks for your idea


What kind of fish and how big are they?

I've managed to keep 200+ feeder guppies in a 6 gallon before, but it really depends. I do not support or recommend you doing that though, that was me as a kid.


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## chase127

JoesonKim said:


> oh I have another question. I got 33 fishes and some snails in a 50g tank. Is it over stock? thanks for your idea


what kind of fish? that really matters.


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## Natty

chris127 said:


> EVERYONE JUST BUY OTOS LEAVE THE FOXES, SIAMESE, AND CHINESE ALONEEEE!!!
> 
> theyre so much more efficient algae eaters, so much funner to watch pile up on a fresh slice o' zucchini


Only reason why I bought SAEs is because everyone said they ate hair/thread algae....if they do, I sure don't notice any difference.

And also because they're more fish for the buck. Bad logic but still lol.


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## chase127

Natty said:


> Only reason why I bought SAEs is because everyone said they ate hair/thread algae....if they do, I sure don't notice any difference.
> 
> And also because they're more fish for the buck. Bad logic but still lol.



bahaha if you want fish for the buck just get a CAE, theyll be up to 6 inches in no time


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## Natty

chris127 said:


> bahaha if you want fish for the buck just get a CAE, theyll be up to 6 inches in no time


Yeah, but at least with SAEs, they're at least rumored to be nice community fish and that they're at least rumored to be good algae eaters.

Lot of rumors going around huh? :hihi:


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## fish dork

Check out this page, best for IDing all of the previous mentioned. The end.

Oh, except the off- topic stuff.

http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/


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## JoesonKim

23 of them are tetras. they are all small fishes. can I still get some more fishes to add in my tank? I don't really like to have a big fish accept SAEs, because I need it to eat BBA :hihi:


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## JoesonKim

Natty said:


> Also, JoesonKim, I suggest when buying SAEs, you buy them as young as possible. From my experience, the adults seem to go after fish food more than anything.
> 
> I mean, of course when you're looking, they pretend to clean your plants. They know what we want and they're two-faced about it. Scary eh?



*Natty*, thanks for you advice hehe Let see how they do in my tank . Actually I'm still a newbie. I have so many thing to learn, especially how to control algae


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## jaidexl

JoesonKim said:


> can I still get some more fishes to add in my tank?


How big of a bioload your tank can handle depends on a few things. A few questions;

1. how many gallons is the tank?

2. what kind of filtration?

3. How many live plants are in the tank and what type?

4. and are you injecting CO2?

5. what exactly is living in the tank already?

6. how long has the tank been running?

If the tank is average sized then chances are you might have all the space filled in at least in the top of the water column. If it's anything over 45/50gl then you probably have room for some more. Individually, tetras aren't that heavy on the bioload compared to some things you could have, but it takes a lot of high protein food to feed a whole school of 23 and they return the excess in bulk. :icon_lol:

Edit: ok I read elsewhere you have a 55gl and I'm going to assume this is it. I wouldn't add anymore top dwellers, but you should be able to add at least a small school of corydoras without pushing things too far. Some otocinclus wouldn't hurt anything but they can be difficult to acclimate. I would personally cut the tetra school in half to make more room for a bigger variety. You may be on the edge or close to it eventually (not sure exactly what all you have in there), so just keep an eye on ammonia with a liquid test kit if you add anything else.


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## Natty

JoesonKim said:


> *Natty*, thanks for you advice hehe Let see how they do in my tank . Actually I'm still a newbie. I have so many thing to learn, especially how to control algae


Here's a reliable advice if you're learning:

There's no better algae controller than a well balanced tank. If your tank is imbalanced, no algae eater, whether shrimp, snail, or fish, is going to really do much good.

In the end, the best algae controller is yourself. The algae eaters are only there to help keep algae down, but if you don't keep your tank balanced, even they can't do anything. They can just do so much, they only help your algae problem, not prevent it.

I also think you are doing okay and are currently not overpopulated in your tank.

I'm also learning myself, so you can say its from a beginner to a beginner. I'm no where near as knowledgable as I want to be.


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## bolivianram123

if your still not sure if yours are SAE's i found this on plantgeek.net










original article


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## fish dork

I'm no expert by any means either... there's always more to learn! I think your fish are true SAE's, but time will tell for sure. It's really only wether they are the 'true SAE' or not that's important in time, to my understanding. When the false, true and flying fox are young they all do a good job of algae cleanup. I know nothing about the CAE (as I described it, and the link that I posted earlier) It's when any of the 3 mature that apparently only the 'true SAE' will continue to eat algae, while the others will get aggresive and lazy.

On another note this topic hits a sore note with me as I was sold false SAE's from a very reputable source that were shipped to me as true SAE's. So far they are about 2 inch and still doing a decent job of cleanup. On a positive note they aren't being aggressive yet, and they're a neat fish to watch.


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## JoesonKim

*Jaydexl*, I got 1 Jebo 838 (got it from my cousin), 1 Jebo 508 waterfall. I got dwarf lily, java fern, java moss, the other one I don't remember its name. It look like amazon dwarf. But right now my live plants are in their hospital :hihi: I put them inside the water mixed with algaefix to remove those BBAs and hair algae. I'm planning to inject DIY Co2, but I have to wait for my Co2 test kit first (shipping). I have 8 neon tetras, 11 cardinal tetras, I don't remember the other 4 tetras name, 2 oto, 1 unknown fish (size: 2"), 2 black platy, snails, and 2 ghost shrimps (planning to buy more). I just got this tank last week, so I got everything set up 2 days ago


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## JoesonKim

*Natty* I will learn how to balance my fish tank. Thanks for your advice


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## jaidexl

I think you're ok with the filters, it's mainly their compact fluorescent lights that are famous for catching fire. They've since changed the form factor, so the problem might be solved. But the basic issue was deplorable workmanship, severed wires, cheesy end caps, and not UL listed.

You're pretty much fully stocked if you follow that inch per gallon guideline, but there are a lot of factors that dictate what a tank can handle, I would just be careful about going too too much higher and keep an eye on ammonia, stick with the little guys. They're probably the main thing giving you leeway here.

I'm positive your fish are SAEs, note in the above pic how the very edge of the lateral stripe is a bit zig zagged as it follows the scale pattern (not mottled zigged like a CAE though, those are def not CAE). That's strictly an SAE feature, the other few 'fakers' have a smooth edge. It's hard for me to tell for sure from your pics but all the other signs are there, yours don't have a strong gold stripe above the lateral stripe which would indicate an impersonator... err, imfishonator?


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## JoesonKim

*jaidexl*, imfishonator hehehehe. So you mean I'm possibly over stock if I buy more fish? Thanks


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## rasetsu

Those are definetly SAEs. I have otos, SAEs, and and a flying fox. Otos just aren't very hearty, but do a much better job at consuming algae. SAEs and flying foxes will consume hair algae when young, but both get lazy and learn to prefer prepared food.

Flying foxes can get aggressive and territorial. I had a three at one time and now down to one and it likes it that way. It will chase the SAEs a little bit probably thinking they are flying foxes at first. SAEs are interesting fish and like flying foxes, will get big...like 6 inches. I had 7 and now down to 2. Sold 3 and two died. SAE's are much nicer to other fish in a community tank.

Chinese algae eaters are just plain ugly, get big, and get aggressive. IMO, they are the worst and have no place in a community tank. They have a checkered pattern torpedo shaped body with a sucker mouth like a pleco. Flying foxes and SAE's are part of the carp family, I believe. They bear some resembalance to koi if you look at their heads. They even have the two whiskers.


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## jaidexl

JoesonKim said:


> *jaidexl*, imfishonator hehehehe. So you mean I'm possibly over stock if I buy more fish? Thanks


Well, the amount and type of food you feed, the bacterial capacity of your filter media and gravel, the amount of O2 the bac receive, and various factors of the particular species you keep all have a say in that among other things. The inch per gallon guideline kind of shows a realm your tank is in and it can handle a bioload either on the high side or low side of that, all things considered. I'd say you're well in that realm so with any more additions you will just want to keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite to make sure your system isn't being overloaded.

Oh, and I'm sorry if my reply about Jebo lights catching fire was confusing, I had just replied to another thread where someone asked about them, then I saw you mention Jebo here and thought it was the same thread. :hihi:


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## rich815

The black stripe being slightly serrated is key (along with going all the way through the tail to the tip), and the two-whiskered mouth. I think they are.


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## JoesonKim

Thank you guys for all of your responses. I love this website and it's really helpful for a newbie like me. 

Oh I just bought 2 more SAEs and 2 otocincluses. I saw the prize in some website, SAE for $5 + shipping $30+. for me it's like wow. anyway I bought mine for $3, but it's been really hard to find them.


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## Lupin

Natty said:


> CAE (Same as foxes, only line doesn't go past base)


This is not a CAE, sorry. You are referring to a _Garra cambodgiensis_.


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