# Jake's 45-F - High-Tech Guy Goes Low-Tech



## chjo (Jun 26, 2012)

I am not one of the many shrimp experts here but I heard that a shrimp tank typically needs a thick layer of substrate. Does 45F sound to shallow?



somewhatshocked said:


> All right. We all know I suffer from a serious case of Multiple Tank Syndrome. But who doesn't need another shrimp tank?!
> 
> Have decided to shut down my high-tech Ebi within the next month and replace it with an ADA 45-F. I plan to house BTOE (Black Tiger Orange Eye shrimp) and some sort of Neo - possibly Orange/Pumpkin. Thought it'd be a good idea to start a new thread-journal to document my process.
> 
> ...


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## Michiba54 (Nov 24, 2011)

I would nix the cory fish, but sounds cool! can't for some photos :red_mouth


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Not so much interested in Cories in a shrimp tank but it's really tempting not to skip the shrimp entirely in favor of them. Love observing them in shallow tanks.

To appease on the photo front, here are a few from other threads.

This is the pool filter sand I plan on using (as of now):










Some of my leftover moss to be used:










Some of the wood I've got:










Can't wait to get this started.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

That's... not entirely accurate, to say the least.

Feel free to take a look at some of my other journals for details or check out some of the hundreds of shrimp tank journals here on the site. 



chjo said:


> I am not one of the many shrimp experts here but I heard that a shrimp tank typically needs a thick layer of substrate. Does 45F sound to shallow?


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## SomeCanuck (Mar 25, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> *What I plan to purchase:*
> 
> 
> ADA 45-F
> ...


Just for curiosity's sake, but aren't coral moss and mini pellia the same thing? I ask because I was looking at buying some mini pellia and both names seem to keep being used interchangeably.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

They are. I forgot to remove the scientific name from my list before pasting it into the thread. Good catch!

Update: I put them on the same line. Honestly, I probably should move it to the list of things I already have, as I have a tiny portion I could grow out.


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## SomeCanuck (Mar 25, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> They are. I forgot to remove the scientific name from my list before pasting it into the thread. Good catch!
> 
> Update: I put them on the same line. Honestly, I probably should move it to the list of things I already have, as I have a tiny portion I could grow out.


No worries. Was just curious. Can't wait to see the new tank!


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## chjo (Jun 26, 2012)

As I said, I am not a shrimp expert. I don't really understand the reason behind that. But apparently shrimp tanks in those shrimp-only LFSs have exceptionally thick layers of substrate. I doubt if that's gonna affect anything greatly or not...

Just a little observation...:red_mouth



somewhatshocked said:


> That's... not entirely accurate, to say the least.
> 
> Feel free to take a look at some of my other journals for details or check out some of the hundreds of shrimp tank journals here on the site.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Yeah, substrate isn't an issue. 

On another note: Washed all my pool filter sand and prepared everything. So maybe my new tank will happen sooner rather than later.


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## Michiba54 (Nov 24, 2011)

Is that quikrete pool filter sand?

I used some once, but I think I got a bag at the start or end of the production line because the grain size are all over the place. Yours look much more uniform.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's AquaQuartz - High Rate Grade.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

chjo said:


> I am not one of the many shrimp experts here but I heard that a shrimp tank typically needs a thick layer of substrate. Does 45F sound to shallow?


Not really, as many professional breeders as well as hobbyists sometime use bare-bottom tanks. On the contrary, the shallowness and wide surface area of the 45-F allow for plenty of space for shrimp to spread out and more surface area for gas exchange, making it a good choice for a shrimp tank. shallow tanks, in general, are regarded generally as good tanks for keeping shrimp.

Jake, I can't wait to see this! I think that the orange bodies of the Pumpkins will work well in contrast with the orange eyes of the BTOE, and vice versa with the black eyes of the Pumpkins.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Similar to my thoughts, as well. I think they'll make a nice mix.

Though, I'm not so sure orange shrimp are going to look so hot on substrate that's light in color. Lots of dark moss and wood should help them look better.

It was a toss-up between the 60-F and the 45-F. 45 wins for reasons of space, I think.



Geniusdudekiran said:


> Jake, I can't wait to see this! I think that the orange bodies of the Pumpkins will work well in contrast with the orange eyes of the BTOE, and vice versa with the black eyes of the Pumpkins.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

somewhatshocked said:


> Similar to my thoughts, as well. I think they'll make a nice mix.
> 
> Though, I'm not so sure orange shrimp are going to look so hot on substrate that's light in color. Lots of dark moss and wood should help them look better.
> 
> It was a toss-up between the 60-F and the 45-F. 45 wins for reasons of space, I think.


That hadn't occurred to me... Fissidens is nice and dark, a really rich green. 

I have a spot that's begging for either a Mr. Aqua 12G long or a 45-F. What's the price tag on the 45-F currently?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

$85. But it's just $110 for the 60. 12gal long gives you a lot of options when it comes to scape and shrimp with its length and volume. Also likely cheaper to get it to your door than it is to get a 45-F before shipping. Love my Mr. Aqua, even though it's not ADA glass.

I've got a bunch of Fissidens I should use. Thanks for reminding me!

Am looking forward to seeing how PFS looks in a shallow tank like this.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Have been thinking about the 2213 and am concerned about the amount of flow - even from a DIY spray bar. I chose it for my Ebi because it's powerful enough to push water down to the substrate to provide flow for carpeting plants. On a much more shallow tank, though, it could be a hot mess.

I'm sure I could temper flow with the quick disconnects and/or find some sort of small lily pipe set but really prefer the spray bar method. Primarily because it allows for much more surface agitation which leads to better cooling for shrimp. 

Any thoughts? Anyone use a 2213 on a shallow tank like this? 

Worst case scenario, I'll pick up a 2211.


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## wetbizquit (Jul 9, 2006)

where do you plan on picking up your filter? local LFS or online? any sources i could look at as well, im setting up two 20gL and was just going to go sponge but i might want to scape them and have a clean look


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

They're available at nearly every aquarium retailer on the web. Check with forum sponsors first and then the usual suspects. Big Al's, Foster & Smith, Pet Mountain, That Fish Place, Petco, PetSmart, Amazon, et al.

2211 definitely won't cut it for a 20gal tank. 2213 won't either, honestly, You'd have to go with a 2215 or 2217.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's been a hot minute since I've updated.

Finally sold off some Cherry Shrimp, sold my Ebi to another forum member and now have room for the new tank. But I'm torn!

Love the look of the pool filter sand I've got but also enjoy ADA Amazonia (and similar substrates). Since my plan is to house BTOE, I'm leaning toward sand.

Guess time will tell what I decide use.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Inching closer and closer to setting things up.

I've got a nice piece of wood, as you can see above. But just ordered two small pieces of driftwood from AquaCave so I have a couple more options when scaping.


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## hlaalu (Sep 24, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> Inching closer and closer to setting things up.
> 
> I've got a nice piece of wood, as you can see above. But just ordered two small pieces of driftwood from AquaCave so I have a couple more options when scaping.


I really like that piece of wood, what do the others look like?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Won't know until the shipment arrives.



hlaalu said:


> what do the others look like?


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## bitFUUL (May 14, 2010)

Nice plans Jake, I'm looking forward to this build! 
Seems shallow is the new thing, been seeing more and more of them.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm looking forward to it, as well!

If only I could, you know, not work and just do tank stuff all day. Then I would have this thing going in no time flat. Heh.

I'm definitely a fan of shallow tanks for shrimp.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

The pieces are nice but they're rather small/short. If I can get my hands on a nice stump that's 5"-6" tall, they'll make the perfect arrangement.

Some pics:


































Really do love it. It would be great in a tank like my 3gal. Just need more height to create some drama in the 45-F. 

Anybody have leads on some cool-looking wood? Maybe a stump that'll be suitable?

I also broke down and ordered some manzanita with the bark still on it. Guess I should place an order with Tom Barr, as well. Can never have too many goodies for tanking.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Got some new wood from Tom Barr today:


























Guess it's safe to say I've got endless options!


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

How's the planning/scraping going, Jake?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I've got a bunch of wood possibilities worked out and am debating the final plant selection. Some of them ar arriving this week. 

Also decided to order an Eheim 2211 to serve as the filter.

On the flip, I have two 20x10x6 acrylic tanks I'm toying with.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

any updates?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Have everything I need but the Archea LED. (Though, I think I'm going to use the current 45-F I've got as a coral frag tank and maybe order a second to use for this project.)

I could build my own fixture using aluminum C-channel but would prefer not to suspend anything above the tank.

Actually a bit undecided on the substrate. It's between the variety of pool filter sand I've got and ADA Aquasoil - which a lot of people are using these days for BTOE without any problem. 

Hope to have time to get things going in the new year.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Just traded a couple shrimp for a new ZooMed 501 so I'm thinking about using it instead of the Eheim 2211. That would free up the 2211 for use on another tank.

Now it's back to my internal substrate debate! Pool Filter Sand versus Aquasoil.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> Just traded a couple shrimp for a new ZooMed 501 so I'm thinking about using it instead of the Eheim 2211. That would free up the 2211 for use on another tank.
> 
> Now it's back to my internal substrate debate! Pool Filter Sand versus Aquasoil.


Nice! I love my zoomed 501. It is pretty quiet, has a good flow and keeps things clean. 

I modified mine for my spec.


MABJ's iDevice used for this message


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## Bananariot (Feb 28, 2012)

Long time no see. I haven't been on the forum much besides looking at what's for sale. 
The cory experiment was a success......until I brought the tanks home and they all suffocated themselves against the sponge...sad day. 

Anyways I would go with the aquasoil.....I don't know what it is with Tigers but they just don't like anything but. Any attempt without the semi lowish pH just gives them bacterial problems sometime in the future. 2 or 3 vendors have just told me go acidic and save the trouble later on. I'm breeding OEBT pretty easily in Azoo. I would probably shoot for somewhere like pH 6.5. Can't wait to see this tank......I'm gonna get one when I settle down after I graduate.

Looks like once again we have the save taste in tanks.


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## Bserve (Nov 4, 2012)

Can we see some Pictures of your wood layout progress? I would also think that aquasoil is good.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

No idea yet. Likely to use the piece in post #4.


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## DeeJayA1 (Sep 23, 2011)

just curious... but here's a straightforward question for you...wouldn't the 2211 work better than the Zoomed???


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I don't know why the zoomed wouldn't work. It is a great filter. Pretty quiet, too.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep, it'll work perfectly for my needs. And leaves the 2211 open for other tanks (like I need another - heh).


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> Yep, it'll work perfectly for my needs. And leaves the 2211 open for other tanks (like I need another - heh).


Sure you do  you need many more!

I wish people would recognize the zoomed as more than a turtle filter lol. I mean I see some people telling others they can't use it because it is only for turtles -.- 

Jake, do you put anything special in your 501?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's not set up just yet but it'll be ceramic, sponge, Purigen and maybe some filter floss depending upon flow.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I need to jam some filter floss in mine. Gotta get it first though. Where do you get yours?

I had to reduce the flow (Obviously on a 2 gal) so I fashioned a little cotton circle to cut some of the flow down as it leaves the filter.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Any craft store - just make sure there are no chemical additives or flame prevention junk. A $2 bag should last years.



MABJ said:


> I need to jam some filter floss in mine. Gotta get it first though. Where do you get yours?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

There are additives to almost everything these days :/. I'll look around. Thanks, bud.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Picked up some great black lava rock from a forum member that came in the mail today:


















The ruler in the photo is 24 inches, for reference. 

Maybe the tank will be pool filter sand with a black lava rock mountain scape and bits of Fissidens.

Maybe I'll set up another shallow 3gal long. Or maybe I'll just buy another tank? Too many options.


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

oooh. Nice lava rock!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Okay, it's been decided. Ordering a second 45-F since my current one is being used for coral frags.

Also going with Amazonia for substrate. With my tap water and the buffering, parameters should be perfect for Tigers and Neos.

Gonna place the order today. 

Now just have to settle on a light fixture. The 45cm fixtures at AFA are sold out, so I may go with one of the others on eBay. Tank wil be low light, so it won't need anything fancy. Just has to look nice - like the Archaea telescoping 45cm fixture - because I can't really suspend anything over the tank. Prefer the top of the tank to be primarily free of obstruction so I can jab my hands and tweezers and such in there without having to move a fixture around.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Ordered!

And the countdown to madness begins... Finally.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Great! One can never have too many tanks. (famous last words) :icon_cool


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Anyone have thoughts or tips on a potential light fixture I may be ignoring or not thinking about?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's official - I'm giving up in record time. On the lighting, that is. Don't feel like waiting and waiting and waiting on a fixture to be in stock at AFA or waiting a month for something to arrive from Hong Kong with no warranty. 

So I'm going to get a 16" Fugeray and go through the hassle of suspending it above the tank. Woo. At least I'll have more options if I decided to use CO2 in the future.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Greeeeaaaat - now I want a Kessil Amazon Sun because of this journal.

It's a shame it would have to be mounted about 10,000 feet above this tank in order to be used.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Got the 16" fixture, though, I feel misled (again) because it's really just a 12" fixture in a 16" body:


















Meaning I could have spent less money on a shorter fixture.

There's significantly more of the body used in the 20" version (that I use on a 10gal):










This is the end of me buying rebranded fixtures.

Like other fixtures, the power cord is so short it's useless without an extension or some expensive electrical work.

At least it works and will produce sufficient lighting. Likely not going to use it for the 45-F unless I can't get my hands on something else. Not because of the four inches of wasted space but because it just doesn't look that great suspended. Probably gonna stick it on a 5.5gal in my tank room.

Now I'm excited to see what the fixtures I bought on eBay are like.

Update: Other lights arrived, so will have some photos hopefully later.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

In addition to the various mosses and Hydrocotyle tripartita, I'm now thinking about other plants. 

Other than C. parva, what should I consider that's maybe no on my radar? 

I always use C. parva, Anubias nana 'petite', S. repens and various Bacopas. Those are my go-tos. Time to stretch boundaries. Ready for opinions.


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## SomeCanuck (Mar 25, 2012)

Marsilea, maybe? Good and easy carpeting plant without being too lawn-like, even without CO2 or high light, from what I've been told, read and seen.

I got my hands on some emersed marsilea quadrifolia as the only stuff available to me, but it's the tallest of the three (hirsuta and crenata being the other 2 that I personally think grow in nicer and more compact), so it's been growing mostly every way but how I want it to. Would also probably be easier if there were no Turbo the jerkwad Apple Snail tearing through my little field and uprooting half of them every 5 damn minutes...


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I've got Marsilea minuta in several tanks currently, so could easily move some over. 

Guess it's also one of my go-tos but that's a good idea.

Now I just need to get my hands on one of those ZooMed filter hangers so I can make this thing work with my stand...


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

That moment when your shipment of a bunch of ADA tanks, soil and goodies arrives... I am in it right now.

Updates later.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> That moment when your shipment of a bunch of ADA tanks, soil and goodies arrives... I am in it right now.
> 
> Updates later.


I love receiving packages. It feels so good, I feel so giddy. I got a package of shrimp Wednesday


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

That light being way short is dumb. That doesn't even look right. Finnex needs to fix that.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Got a black background on, Garden Mat cut, tank positioned. 

Here's a look - just ignore the fixture that won't be used:










The piece of wood I think I'm going to use after cutting it down and repositioning some stuff:










Gonna have to break out the Dremel and band saw tomorrow.

Also have tons of upon tons of stumps and random manzanita pieces like this:










Along with all the black lava rock I bought (if I got a wild hair and went the pool filter sand route - don't think I will).

Waiting on a hanger to come next week so I can put the ZooMed 501 on the back.

Working out plant options in my head.

This should be fun.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

New eBay fixture arrived and here's what it looks like:


















It's not that bright, so I need to carefully consider whether or not it will suffice for mosses, Crypts and such.

So many decisions.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Ooh.... Yikes it looks really nice, but I don't think it would be good for mosses if you keep floaters in the tank :/


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

There likely won't be floating plants.


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## synaethetic (Oct 4, 2011)

That new light looks much brighter than the finnex, nice!

That gnarled stump type piece of driftwood is PERFECT. Cut the tips off so it fits snuggly in the tank and position it so the branches appear to be roots running along the ground.

Can't wait to see some updates.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's not brighter than the Finnex. This is a 4-watt fixture, the Finnex is 6 (I realize there's more to it than that - but for all practical purposes). It may have a better spread, though.

Still have to cut the stump in half (which will result in two useful pieces). Decided to use Christmas Moss, Java Moss, a bit of Fissidens, C. parva, a spare Anubias nana 'petite' from another tank, a small amount of Hydrocotyle tripartita and maybe some other variety of red/brown/cool Crypt.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Ordered another clamp lamp like the one in the photos above. 

Since I have doubts about a single fixture, two ought to do the trick. Can't beat $15.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I think I like where this is going! Subscribed!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Okay. I strongly dislike the aesthetics of the fixture. Brushed aluminum would be so much more sleek. Guess anything is better than spending a billion dollars trying to suspend something above the tank, though.

Finally finished cutting the wood down to size. Here's what I've settled on:


























The stump itself will be moved forward about an inch so there's a bit of planting room behind it. 

One of the leftover pieces:










May end up cutting the base on the one above down a bit so it can be used in another 3gal long.

Even have this option if it's ever needed:


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## d2creative (Jan 24, 2013)

I really like that second to last option!


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Looking good, I like that last option the best!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Appreciate all the kind words but will be using the first option:










That way I can cover a bunch of the stump in Christmas Moss.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Sweet driftwood my man. Well cut for this sized tank.

I think that upside-down piece (Number 2 maybe?) would work well in a tank at some point. Some weeping moss would be great on it. (Wait weeping or willow... One of the two)


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Looks like I've got a lot of DIYing ahead of me in trying to figure out how to place the Zoomed 501 behind the tank - where there's really no room to place anything. Since I don't want to spend the cash on another Eheim 2211, that is. Because that's $100 that could be spent on livestock and plants.

The retailer I bought the filter hanger from finally (a week later) told me they're no longer carrying it and are refunding me. I could order another one directly from Zoomed but now I'm not sure I like the idea of something weighing 2-3 pounds hanging from the side of an expensive, rimless ADA tank.

Gonna have to fashion some sort of "table" behind the rack in the four inches between it and the wall. Have a bunch of 1x1s I could use as "legs" for the "table. Could zip tie them to the rack in a couple places for stability.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Two fixtures certainly does the trick:










They don't look gorgeous by any stretch of the imagination but at least I don't have to hang something.

Now, to fight the urge to sell this new ZooMed 501 and buy an Eheim 2211… not sure I can fight it much longer.


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## pwolfe (Mar 2, 2011)

Don't fight it. the 501 is a terrible filter imo, unless you're trying to filter about a 1 gallon tank.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I don't think it's a terrible filter at all. Use it on a couple other tanks with no issues. Just don't think it's perfect for my tank in its current location.

Probably gonna get the Eheim.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Although I use it on a 2 gallon, I also think the 501 is a really nice filter capable of much more.


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## pwolfe (Mar 2, 2011)

I dunno, I ran it on a 5.5g and was never happy with the flow I got out of it. Maybe my expectations are off base. I guess for biological it was great, but mechanical was always an issue for me.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

In a heavily planted tank, I can definitely see where flow would be a concern. Or even in a deeper tank than this.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Dangit. How did you people talk me into this?

Ordering another Eheim.


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## nerdariostomp (Aug 23, 2012)

I really like my eheim (I have a vintage 2011) and my 501. On this tank the 501 should be fine though. Either way more eheim filters will just make it easier to pull the trigger on other tank setups later 

*Edit its a toms nano canister filter but it has same flow rating


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I think the ZooMed would be fine but I really need a filter that I can place on the floor and out of sight. Not sure why I tried to cheap out in the first place. 

Now I need to trek out to Home Depot for some smaller clear tubing to fit the output.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

If you still do not like the clip-on lights you might have another option: I just used ZooMed's light stand and their Deep Dome fixtures with CFL bulbs from HomeDepo over a rimless 10g. I was looking for clip-on lights myself but could not find anything that I thought would work for me. Put yours on RAOK and I'll sign up 

About ~$50 total for all:


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Ha! Those are the stands I use to hold up the Marineland fixture on my 12gal long. Absolutely terrific. I've got a couple spares that I'm currently using for my dwarf citrus trees. Just don't have a way to properly position things with this tank without it looking like a jumbled mess.

Though, you have given me a great idea. I should spray paint some cheap Home Depot clamp lamps black just in case I decide to use them over this tank. Or others. Because I obviously have a serious issue (MTS).


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Or dump the base and attach the arm to the wall behind the tank. Gives you height and light adjustable hanger. Or just make one yourself. The stand is like $20 on sale at Petco atm. The dome light is $24 at Amazon - gets you double reflector and no need to spray paint the $8 home depo brooder lamps. Add the cost of gas ...

Or better yet: attach the base to the bottom of your top shelf, then insert the arm from the top and you are golden. You can then also paint the light stand / lamps any color you like. May I recommend red - that will look dashing :icon_evil

Love this project btw. My favorite part is setting up new tanks. We both have MTS, brother


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Just did a test run with one of the ZooMed stands. Zip tied it to the rack in several spots to steady it and think I could use it in a pinch.

Still think these little clip-on LED fixtures are going to get the job done just fine, though. They're a bit more powerful than the Archaea fixtures - even if they're no where near as attractive.

Who knows? Maybe I'll figure out a way to create something out of aluminum that actually looks great attached to the back of the tank. Maybe...


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Rain gutters make decent light enclosures and they are lightweight. 

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Crypt beckettii or petchii? Which should I select for the back right area of the tank? Leaning toward C. beckettii.

Still debating. I've got a bunch of Wendtii but don't think I want something so generic unless it's brown or reddish.

Gonna glue moss on the driftwood later today and let it sit in a bucket with a powerhead for a few days. That way it'll be a little water logged and I can just stick it in the tank when I'm ready to install the Eheim when it arrives.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I have half the C. parva I need and pulled a couple other crypts from my 10gal to use in this tank. Gonna pull an Anubias nana 'petite' I've got hidden in another tank, as well.

Goal for tonight: drill my spray bar, connect the 2211, glue moss to the wood and get this kitty purring.

That is - if - I don't fall asleep.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I was ignorant and didn't remember to attach some slate to the bottom of the wood. So it's weighted down with various rocks until I yank it out during the water change tomorrow.

Couple rough photos after setting things up:


















Likely adding a bit more moss and probably hiding some attached to lava rock behind the stump.

Have an Anubias nana 'petite' or two to toss in when I figure out where they belong.

Should probably add a bit more Aquasoil during the water change.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

So jealous of your F. I still want one, lol. The tank looks good, have you considered M. minuta for it?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks! I think it looks like a hot mess. But after a few months (or a few million months) of Crypt growth, it should look acceptable. Once the Christmas Moss grows in, the tank will look solid. 

Thought about doing a carpeting plant but don't want to use CO2 or ferts. In my experience, it takes Marsilea about a year to really spread well without both. 

A note about the Crypts I've already planted: the ones in front are C. parva. The ones in back are allegedly C. parva but are giant bit comparison - and they've been submerged in another tank for about sixteen months. Figured they'd look decent behind the wood when viewed from above. Didn't want anything too tall, as this is going to be a shrimp tank.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Didn't end up doing a water change today. Ammonia is just at 4PPM so I don't see a need to swap water. Maybe I'll get lucky and it won't creep up above 5PPM this time? (Wishful thinking, I know)

Have been doing lots of brainstorming today and am torn on the shrimp I want to keep in the tank. Currently have things at a GH of 5 but that's easy to alter. Have waffled from Neos to Tigers to Crystals. Maybe Tangerine Tangers. Maybe some of the BTOE I have left (sold most of them). Maybe just a bunch of my PRLs.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Try TTs. They're tough, I hear. 

Mine didn't prosper. But I'll be trying them again very soon. 

I love BTOEs. They're also a great choice. 

Oh and Royal Blues catch my eye big time. I've been looking for someone to start a project with them. 

I guess what I'm saying is tigers ahoy!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I've got a bunch of Tangerine Tigers. They're at least as hardy as Cherries in my tanks. Have them in everything from GH 5 to GH 14, pH ranging from 5.5 to 7.5. Kinda need to add to the bloodline, though.

This tank is three feet from where I spend most of the day, so I want something interesting. Am fortunate to have all kinds of shrimp on-hand, so that's not an issue. Just have to make a decision. 

Directly beneath the tank is a 3gal with Snow Whites and beneath that, PRLs. Something different would be nice.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Yeah why not pick a tiger. 

I also suggested TTs because not only do they look unique, they also are SUPER active. More active than any shrimp I've ever had at least.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Good point on the activity front. Definitely should be high on the priority list for this tank.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Almost bought a Fluval Aqualife & Plant LED fixture last night at the LFS (it was on sale for $49 - about half retail). It's sleek and would have been perfect for this tank.

But it attaches to the tank with a 3M Command Strip! What the heck? Disaster waiting to happen.

Guess these little eBay/BeamsWork clip-on LEDs will have to work for the time being.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Had to do some work on the driftwood. Ended up using Gorilla Glue to attach the base to a piece of slate, which raised it out of the water a tiny bit:










I can live with it, I think. And the glue should hold long enough til everything is fully water logged. (I know, I know - I should have attached it in the beginning or pre-soaked it for a few weeks.)

Finally seeing some melt on the C. petchii, should be seeing new growth by the time the tank is cycled:










Hoping this creates a neat effect once the H. sibthorpioides thickens up:










Still planning to order more C. parva and want to add a couple more colorful Crypts to the area around the C. petchii.

Note: No, I won't be leaving the ugly thermometer in that spot - will eventually hide it behind the filter intake.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Nearly three weeks in.

Guessing it'll be another 3-4 weeks before this is suitable for critters.

Time to order some more C. parva!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Will need to move the H. sibthorpioides:










Because it's going to overtake the Christmas Moss if I don't.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Yeah it probably will. I'm trying to train my H. Japan to go up a piece of DW and avoid my own mosses.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Think I'm going to move part of it behind the wood and ditch the crypts in the back. Since it gets a bit bushy, thinking it could look pretty cool.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Still no Nitrite reading but ammonia is starting to drop down from 4PPM. Guessing I'll see the Nitrite spike soon.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Really happy with moss growth:










The small crypts in the photo below are C. parva:










The larger ones were also sold to me as C. parva. Clearly two different plants. Have had them both in my tanks for about two years.

And these little guys are popping out new leaves at least once a week:










It's gonna take a million years for the tank to cycle but I'm patient and happy with it. 

Gonna add a few more crypts of some sort to the bank of the tank and then it'll be complete. My goal was to keep things simple and relatively attractive and hopefully I'll have accomplished that within a few months of growth. It's not the best it could be but it's a shrimp tank... so I guess I can't complain.


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## All your base (Dec 6, 2006)

You act like the bit of driftwood above water is a bad thing. Why not sick some cool terrestrial or emersed plant on it and make it a feature?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

1ppm Nitrite AND Ammonia is dropping!

Exciting.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice little setup! That moss looks happy.



somewhatshocked said:


>


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks! As soon as those crypts in front flatten out and the others grow a bit, I'll be happy.

This Christmas Moss is exploding in nearly every freshwater tank I've got. It's absurd. Hard water, soft water, it grows like no other. Have to keep it trimmed regularly or it gets a little crazy.

I think I've even grown to like these ugly LED fixtures I snagged off eBay.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Went to the LFS with the intention of picking up a crypt to add to the tank and came back with a ton of them:


















They're a wendtii of some sort. The large ones behind the driftwood and the tiny ones in the rear right.

It's official - the tank is fully planted! At least as far as my plans went.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Ammonia is now down to about 0.5 PPM and the Nitrites are continuing to fall. The end is nigh!

Funny how exciting this stage always seems to be. No matter how many tanks I set up.


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## Nanoful (Dec 28, 2012)

wow really nice tank! I really want this one but in your opion, should i get this or just wait for my 90P


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Woah, hold your horsies.

Asking me if you should get another tank is a dangerous thing to do.

Because I'm going to tell you to get BOTH.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Ammonia is down to 0.25 PPM but Nitrites haven't fallen. Hopefully I won't end up having to add ammonia to finish this process.


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## CPDzeke (Jan 4, 2013)

Nitrite is a frustrating thing indeed...
I guess I shouldn't ask you whether I should get a truaqua 3.4g or derim a 2.5g then. I now know what will happen.
Sorry to derail a bit, but can I remove the bottom rim of a tank if it is really small? I mean like will it collapse?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It depends upon the brand of tank, how it's manufactured, etc.

Short answer: no, don't do it. 

My philosophy when it comes to tanks under 30-40 gallons: if you want a rimless tank, buy a rimless tank. Even when it comes to tiny ones.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Finally! 0 Nitrite, 0 Ammonia.

Now I guess I need to add some ammonia every day until I can get some shrimp.

It's either that or add a bunch of PRLs, something I don't want to do. Planning on Tangerine Tigers, I think, since I have three I could mix with whatever I order. Along with some sort of brown or blue Neo at some point.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Cough blue diamonds . 

Really some of Bryce's dark blue velvets would be awesome in this one. 

But I think your color scheme is neat. Transparent orange, transparent blue. 

It shouldn't take long for your ammonia dosing from here on in..


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

If I eventually choose blues, I'd go with Nick's - just because they're darker. The Velvets are really nice, however.

Think I'll start with 10 TTs, let them do their thing for a while. Eventually add 5-6 Neos.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Loving this tank - even with the ugly Crypts in front:










Will just have to replace them with smaller portions of Crypt parva so I will be satisfied.

The other random Crypts in the tank are growing well:


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Love this scape. Very simple yet dynamic. I don't even notice the ugly crypts until you point them out lol.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

MABJ: Ha - thanks.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Now for the update: 

I've been running the tank by just keeping the cycled bacteria alive (adding ammonia daily). Because I haven't been able to settle on the shrimp I want. I *think* want to house TTs but am leaning more and more toward just moving over some CBS or some of my PRLs.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Finally broke down and am moving about a dozen Pure Red Lines to the tank. They're dripping now. They're hardiest shrimp I've got, so I guess it's not so bad. Even though I wanted some color. It'll be nice to see some white pops in such a dark brown and green tank.

Maybe I'll add some PFRs at some point. Or some other color of Neo.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

PRLs are coloring up and seem to be enjoying their new home:


























































These are just from my iPhone 4, so nothing special yet. 

Safe to say the Crypts have exploded:


















Looking forward to watching this tank grow and develop over the next year or so.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Some random shots:


























































































With the exception of two, it seems all of these PRLs are high-ish grade. It's always a bit of a crapshoot when netting them from a super-populated tank.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Something must be really enjoyable about the tank because they're all starting to do the fancy dance.

Guess it's that time of year.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Looking good, the moss growth and the wood emerging from the substrate are nice.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Already have a berried mama.


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## A.D.D.i.c.t. (Dec 9, 2012)

The character of the wood you are using in this tank is really cool. Once grown in everything will be darn sweet.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Posting this for the folks who continue to ask.

Left: Standard bag of Azoo Plant Grower Bed. Right: ADA Aquasoil Amazonia, 9L.










$37.98 to have Azoo shipped. Just under $50 to have the Aquasoil shipped. 

As you can see, this is why I say there's no comparison.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Added ten more PRLs today.

Crypts are loving the cheap LEDs (new growth all over the place) and the Christmas Moss looks crazy in this tank. It's a bit brown-ish but is growing like crazy.


































Think the tank is pretty much stocked at this point. Maybe adding a few more shrimp in a couple weeks if breeding doesn't start but that's it.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Kind of surprised that these cheap-o lights are growing algae:










Safe to say the moss is crazy:










And the Crypts will have to be thinned/moved around:


















Love this little tank.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Can't say it enough - Crypt growth has been nothing short of amazing in this tank:


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Just discovered some RGB SMD strips in storage. Thinking it may be time to play with some reds to see what happens with the various Crypts in this tank.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Now I'm back to contemplating shrimp. Thinking about removing all or most of the PRLs from the tank and introducing about a dozen CBS from my 12gal, which has for some reason seen a lack of Crystal breeding the past year.


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## denske (Feb 20, 2013)

Looks great man, what lights are those again? 2 seems to work well.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks - they're just super-cheap BeamsWork LEDs from eBay. Probably the best "cheap" fixture I've ever purchased.

Haven't been able to find them since I bought them (think they sold out?) but searching for "led clip light aquarium" brings up a ton of possibilities for cheap.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Must have been a fun evening in all of my shrimp tanks. Every single one has dozens of shrimp swimming around like crazy and tons of them are berried.

Guess it really is that time of year.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Loving that these cheap LEDs are brining out the browns and reds of both the Crypts in this tank:










Shrimp seem to be loving everything. Nice bunch of new Ramshorn babies, as well.

Thinking about swapping these PRLs for some PBLs.


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## pinkman (May 16, 2013)

ive been really inspired by all of you tanks, i find the layouts to be very eye-catching.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Thank you!

While I don't believe my tanks are the most attractive on this forum in any stretch of the imagination, I do believe they're proof that one can make a tank look pretty good while keeping it manageable, lush and livestock-friendly. 



pinkman said:


> ive been really inspired by all of you tanks, i find the layouts to be very eye-catching.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Om Nom Nom time!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I know I shouldn't complain about moss growing quickly in a low-tech tank but... that's exactly what I'm doing.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Not sure how they got by me but I'm noticing tons of juvenile shrimp in the 45-F and quite a few babies.

Must have been a productive couple of months for these little critters!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Complete Veggie feeding time:


























Found a bunch of new babies I wasn't expecting, as well.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Still too lazy to use the DSLR but here are some updated cell phone shots:










































Should still add a mountain of C. parva but I'm really happy with the tank. Definitely need to trim some moss to show of those red and brown Crypts a bit more.

Proof you can have something that doesn't look absolutely terrible with little effort.


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## That70sfishboy (Apr 2, 2013)

Something in the back right corner is needed..maybe your parva mountain idea?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's tough to see in the images, as the pre-filter sponge is in the way, but there are some Crypts filling in that spot that are getting quite thick.

My general idea/plan was to position Crypts in such a way that I'd get the best viewing angles from a chair positioned near the tank. As the various groupings of Crypts grow, they're making the sponge less noticeable. 

Counted my spare C. parva plantlets and have a few dozen, so I think I'll try to add some to the tank this weekend.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Just swapped out the five filters in my RO/DI unit at home. I think I might die. Who the heck engineered such difficult to open pieces of equipment?

Thank goodness this only has to be done about once per year at home.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Babies, babies everywhere!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Wow, what a nice thread! I love this little tank too. It almost makes me want to set up a shrimp tank. I'm sorry for asking since I'm sure it's in here somewhere, but how big's this tank; volume and dimensions.

How fast can you breed 300 Cherry shrimp?  I don't care about color quality, just quantity.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks! This is my most favorite tank footprints. 45x24x16cm. Roughly 4.6gal.

Definitely a work in progress. Slowly adding more C. parva as I find small plantlets in my other tanks. Really enjoy it on a daily basis.

If you start with 5 or 6 female Cherries, you could have 300 shrimp in a couple months. Neos can breed like crazy when they're comfortable.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

More babies!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Reached a decision today. Planning to move the PRLs in this tank to one of my others. Once that's done, I'll be moving most of my CBS to this tank so I can redo my 12gal.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Moved all adult and juvenile PRLs from this tank to a 20L to make room for all the CBS from my 12gal long. Also added a few Amano Shrimp.

Really excited to finally have a bunch of my high-grade CBS within view while working all day.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Great. Now that I've moved a bunch of CBS into the 45-F, half of them are berried. And by half, I mean easily fifteen shrimp. 

Time to start ANOTHER tank up? Goodness gracious.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Too many berried females aside... added two Horned Nerites from another tank and they've cleaned the algae-spotted glass of this tank in less than 24 hours. Now I remember why I love these little snails.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Just thought I'd share a few photos that detail the difference in whites between my PRLs and CBS:


























Almost amber compared to the stark white of the Reds.

Notice the black legs of the CBS? Have been working on that since 2011. Most frustrating thing to breed for - ever - in shrimp, in my experience.

Also, I need to clean the glass like woah in the 45-F!


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> I know I shouldn't complain about moss growing quickly in a low-tech tank but... that's exactly what I'm doing.


What kind of moss is that? Also, do you find that your shrimp prefer food on the ground compared to in a glass dish? I always saw more dogpiling when i just let the food hit the floor but its way harder to clean.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's Christmas Moss.

Doesn't matter how they're fed, really. They always go for the food. I never really have leftovers and rarely have to clean food up. If you have enough livestock in the tank and only feed what they can eat in an hour, you won't run into issues of waste.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Thought I'd post a quick update as I recover from moving 500 miles and bringing all my tanks.

The 45-F survived intact. Replanted everything to thin out the crypts and replaced all the Christmas Moss, so I won't have to trim it for a while.

But here's the kicker: When I flooded the tank? A giant Amano Shrimp crawled out of the middle of the wood and started pecking around like it hadn't been in a tank without water for FOUR DAYS. Crazy.


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

That is crazy!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

One of my cheap LED fixtures is biting the bullet. Lots of sizzling sounds when I try to turn it on, so I'm tossing it until I can do some fancy work on it or get a new adapter and such.

Anyone have ideas on what I should run instead of these two? I could always do a daylight CFL in a dome - and may do that for the short term - but I'm looking for something more permanent. Please make aesthetically pleasing recommendations, folks. Keep in mind that this is an expensive and rimless tank, so nothing that covers the top of the tank.

Leaning toward a 12" Wavepoint fixture and plan to use the same on the bowfront in my signature.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Ordered a couple new fixtures. Stay tuned!


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## Psiorian (Jun 23, 2013)

Glad to see you made the move safely, even the stow away amano.



somewhatshocked said:


> Ordered a couple new fixtures. Stay tuned!


Always excited to see what you end up putting on your tanks!

This will be helpful as I'm thinking of getting a similar tank.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Replacement LED (same as the failed one) came and all is right with the world again.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

WOAH! It's been a hot minute since I've posted in this thread. 

But I've finally got the urge to get it going again. Excitement. And buckets of substrate, plants, new lights. All the fun things.


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## Beelzebubbles (Feb 14, 2014)

Hey there, just did a quick browse through the thread. Anything happening with the tank again? What did you think of the 2211 on that tank? Im debating on getting the 2211 or 2213 for my 45f


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Still growing out the Fissidens and other plants I want to use for the tank.

2211 is honestly almost too strong. 2213 would be crazy.


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## Beelzebubbles (Feb 14, 2014)

i planned on throttling it down a bit. Maybe i will go 2211 though


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I think you'd regret using the 2213. 2211 is perfect and you'll still have to throttle it.

When I set this one back up, I'll be using the 2211 for sure.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Appreciate all the kind words but will be using the first option:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Loving on this wood.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Posted an updated (different angle) photo of it in my 3gal long journal just a bit ago. I think I'm going to use it in the 5 gallon Fluval Spec I'm planning.

When I set this 45-F back up, I'm going to use some large rocks instead of wood. But probably won't get to planting or filling it up until this winter.



Discusluv said:


> Loving on this wood.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Thanks! As soon as those crypts in front flatten out and the others grow a bit, I'll be happy.
> 
> This Christmas Moss is exploding in nearly every freshwater tank I've got. It's absurd. Hard water, soft water, it grows like no other. Have to keep it trimmed regularly or it gets a little crazy.
> 
> I think I've even grown to like these ugly LED fixtures I snagged off eBay.


Maybe Ill try Christmas moss next time= with the 10 gallon. That is some beautiful moss growth.


Is this tank still going? ` gave me some plant ideas.  Edit: you answered this already ( thumbs up!)


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> Posted an updated (different angle) photo of it in my 3gal long journal just a bit ago. I think I'm going to use it in the 5 gallon Fluval Spec I'm planning.
> 
> When I set this 45-F back up, I'm going to use some large rocks instead of wood. But probably won't get to planting or filling it up until this winter.


Im torn between a rocks-cape and wood for my 10 gallon. Rocks are a challenge for me to aquascape with; but, all my tanks are more wood-centric than rock- it would be nice to do something different.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This 45-F has been shut down. Planning to completely rescape it and move it home with me this fall/winter/whenever I get around to putting up a decent rack. 

I've got a bunch of lava rock to consider using it it. Also have some nice pieces of reef rock that don't impact water parameters too much (because I've used them in freshwater for several years). Pretty sure I want to do something with large-ish rocks and dark sand or sand-like substrate in this tank. Maybe some "Black Diamond" Neos or some other dark-colored Neo. Maybe even some nice red ones from my existing colonies.

If you start checking out landscape and garden centers - as well as pet shops - you'll start finding nice rocks that catch your eye. You'll almost instantly know if you can create a decent scape with them.


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