# Super dinky 29g - 2g Picklescape - and 1g Cookie Jar - journal



## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I love everyone’s tank journals so I’m going to record our wild ride here.

It’s our first ever tank so a lot of learning is happening on the fly. Started because my kid wanted a fish for years, finally we took the plunge. He wanted it huge but space and money constraints - and the fact we’re renting an apartment - dictated a reasonable size, so we settled on 29g tall.

We got the Fluval kit under the pretense that it ‘includes everything we need to start’. Ha-hahahahaha-ha. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars later, we’ve stopped counting for the moment.

This is the tank the first day we set it up:


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

We soon decided the dragon didn’t really fit so out it went. Knowing nothing about anything aquaristic, I went mostly by lfs staff recommendations... sometimes this worked out well.

We commenced our fishless cycle on Nov 26th.










The plants were doing well, except for the red tiger lotus who was too fancy for us and the frilly tall things on the far right that melted viciously in our warm water.

Then miraculously, there was life. This one glorious interloper who got himself this barren new world to explore 









Needless to say, we were wildly excited. A living moving thing had just materialized in our tank. 

Followed by, like, a kajillion more.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

The water wisteria pronounced itself queen of the tank, while the red lotus decided to die in the most slow and dramatic fashion possible.










The crypts quietly got on with business.

We realized one of our snails was not like the others.










Meet Chug the pond snail. Chug is by far the best adjusted and happiest creature in the tank.

Lfs told us our water was good and we could stock. (Reader, our water was not good. Bad things happened)



















We got our first inhabitants, 12 Chili Rasbora. (Reader, they were NOT Chili Rasbora. Apparently the rasbora world is full of treachery.) We lost a couple to an unprotected filter intake but then things seemed to even out and go well.

Two weeks later we dared and got a green phantom pleco, and named him Oliver. Oliver seemed ok at first but wouldn’t take any food. We asked around but everyone said don’t worry, he’s probably eating at night. He wasn’t. Oliver died 5 days later, followed by a bunch of tiny rasbora. We ran to check water parameters again but apparently it was all fine. We never really sussed out what happened.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

We were down to just five rasbora which we finally ID’d as phoenixes. I found this forum and asked a ton of questions and got a ton of incredibly great answers I’m very grateful for.

We got the API master test kit and the Gh/Kh kit and started tracking water. All seemed in order and our remaining 5 rasbora remained steady.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

After a few weeks of steady parameters, we decided our initial tragedy was down to an insufficiently matured tank, and dared to try again. We added 12 more rasbora (actual chilis this time), two Amano shrimp and two yellow fire neon cherry shrimp. One had a slight greenish tinge so my kid named them Lemon and Lime.








This tiny guy is the runt of the batch. He has some sort of swim bladder issue so he swims a bit funny but otherwise he seems happy and is eating with the others so we’re not giving up on him. Everyone else has been doing amazing so far.








Chug is still the happiest and best adjusted being.








Other chilis are coloring up slowly. Amanos are scrubbing as if they’ve just shown up for their first day of work at a new position so they really want to impress with their work ethic.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

This is what the tank currently looks like


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Nymphoides ‘Taiwan’ from tissue culture is winning at life.








Shrimp survived a week - and a water change - so we got them some friends. One of the shrimp in the yellow cherry tank seemed greenish again so my kid insisted we take her. I first thought she was just a tinted yellow like Lime, but after staring at her more I believe she’s a true green, though maybe not very high grade. I hope she has fun green babies.









Ludwigia super red from tissue culture finally turning pink at the tips. Chug the pond snail took out half the stems, sparking a lively debate on whether pond snails sometimes eat healthy baby plants (Reader, they do)








Lemon is the swimmiest shrimp, none of the others swim as much as she does.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chug laid eggs again. Not today, Chug. I took them out.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Wow, sounds like you've had some adventures. Love how you're fighting with Chug and more possible Chugs. Your tank looks so clean in your photos, have you had any issues with algae so far?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Wow, sounds like you've had some adventures. Love how you're fighting with Chug and more possible Chugs. Your tank looks so clean in your photos, have you had any issues with algae so far?


Chug is our star, they love life so much and sniff out everyone’s food from a mile away. When I was trying to feed the poor sick plec and he was refusing everything, Chug was getting so fat on his leftovers hahah. When I blanched him a French string bean she crawled right into it and rolled around in visible delight.

Zero algae issues so far except a mild fogging on the glass on the brighter side. I wipe it off occasionally with the magnet scraper. The weeping moss I tried to get to grow got choked up by hair algae but it was literally just that tiny patch. I think it’s because it was dying anyway. My java moss had a slow start but is slowly taking off now which gives me joy.

I dosed excel at the start but soon someone told me it can damage unestablished plants so I stopped. I think because it’s low light low ferts low bioload nothing is getting overfed so algae hasn’t found an ‘in’ yet.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

All trials aside. You've done well and have gone a long ways with your planted tank. My freshwater, planted journey is just beginning, and so will come '_my_' trials! I'm confident in what I'm doing, at the moment, however. Once the plants go into my tank the '_nail-biting_' will begin! I'll be in totally unfamiliar territory!  I can only hope that I will do as well as you have done in such a short period of time!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> All trials aside. You've done well and have gone a long ways with your planted tank. My freshwater, planted journey is just beginning, and so will come '_my_' trials! I'm confident in what I'm doing, at the moment, however. Once the plants go into my tank the '_nail-biting_' will begin! I'll be in totally unfamiliar territory!  I can only hope that I will do as well as you have done in such a short period of time!


I’ll let you in on my main secret - if it doesn’t thrive, let it go and go with something else 😅 I’m sure your journey will be just as exciting. And I hope I can get myself to a proper ‘heavily planted tank’ stage soon so my chilis feel more chill


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I pulled up some plants today to share with someone from a local aquarist group who is just starting a planted tank.... giant chunk of water wisteria that was pressing against the glass and making algae grow on it.... a couple of baby crypts and a couple of nymphoides ‘Taiwan’ since they’re going to block out the sun if they all get to grow up in my little tank.

I’m letting them all float until tomorrow when they come to pick them up. They promised me a microworm culture starter in exchange which is very exciting!! I’ve been looking for a way to feed live food without setting up a whole bbs lab...

I hate messing with the plants because it always messes up the water and it always freaks me out when it’s not clear. But I guess it was a good day to do it as tomorrow is water change day.

Fascinated me how little fear the fish and the shrimpies showed, they didn’t run from my hand at all so I kept worrying I was going to hurt someone while I’m pulling things out. One particular shrimp kept climbing my hand and would not be shooed off, I had to wait until she swam off to check out one of the floating plants.

Tomorrow I’ll try to finish the job of rearranging the plants and then let everything settle and clear up. Everyone was in a bit of a frenzy after today’s session, trying to put things back in order. I’ve never seen the shrimp so busy... guess I kicked up something from the substrate.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so having shrimp is completely different to having fish. Fish (well mine at least) swim around and mind their own business. Shrimp are like unruly children. 

They’re always climbing exactly the thing I want to adjust in the tank. They’re unconcerned if I ask them kindly to leave. There’s one who literally beelines for my hand the moment I put it into the tank and climbs all over, exploring. She detaches if I pull the hand up out of water but swims circles for a while to see if I won’t be back. It occurred to me she might be trying to scare me but I don’t see her doing anything intimidating hahah, just runs along my fingers. 

Lettuce, our potentially green shrimp, has molted and is now somewhat less green, but still unmistakably green. I’ve been reading up on shrimp greenness and apparently yellow shrimp will turn green from astaxanthin, the stuff they put into fish food to make fish colors pop. So maybe she was stealing the rasbora food in the LFS tank. I’m still secretly hoping she will stay green and we get to see how her genetics play out in her offspring.

I’ve finally ID’d the moss I got from a local aquarist, he said he was giving me Java moss so I lived in this belief, unswayed by seeing Java moss look totally different in many aquaristics videos.... anyway it’s some sort of liverwort, possibly crystalwort, possibly mixed in with some other type. I keep getting things in my tank and then discovering they’re a totally different thing.









Lemon being yellow and Lettuce being green


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

I wonder if the shrimp were freaking out because there might have been ammonia kicked up when you pulled the plants out? It looks like you have gravel so I'm actually not sure. When I kicked up aquasoil while messing with my scape, I immediately did a large-ish water change and threw Seachem Prime to try to minimise it, aqua soil definitely has ammonia trapped in it. 

I love how your shrimp has such personality though. Mine are only juveniles but I can see them getting bolder, I'm hoping they get as unruly as yours hahaha


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> I wonder if the shrimp were freaking out because there might have been ammonia kicked up when you pulled the plants out? It looks like you have gravel so I'm actually not sure. When I kicked up aquasoil while messing with my scape, I immediately did a large-ish water change and threw Seachem Prime to try to minimise it, aqua soil definitely has ammonia trapped in it.
> 
> I love how your shrimp has such personality though. Mine are only juveniles but I can see them getting bolder, I'm hoping they get as unruly as yours hahaha


Well it was only that one girl doing it.... Everyone else was pretty calm but just being very annoying and getting in my way. 'No don't move THAT plant, mom!! I was just going to pick invisible stuff off of that one!!' 'What do you mean you need to clean the pre-filter? But I'm eating on the pre-filter!! Come back later!'

They definitely have personalities. The key is to stare at them enough to be able to tell which one is which. Like in our tank, Lime (who is now called Grapefruit because he's lost a lot of green in his last molt) is the shy boy, I thought at first he was shy because he needed to molt but nope he's just very timid and usually hiding somewhere. He never swims further than a couple of inches. Lemon, our first girl who has a nice saddle on her now so I'm really hoping we'll see some babies.... she's the swimmer, she will literally do laps around the water's edge to find something cool like a temporarily floating plant or the filter basket I hung under the HoB flow to slow down the water flow for the chilis. She is the only one who knows that place exists and she loves to go up there and pick at the filter bag. Lettuce the green girl who is still green is very poised and calm and doesn't care about anything. She will walk right over the amanos to get where she's going. But she's never in a rush. The big yellow girl who loves swimming at my hand.... she's the oldest and the biggest and the yellowest. Haven't given her a name yet. I think with shrimp naming is a losing battle. If we do manage to get another generation going we will probably only recognize a few of them. Anyway she just loves hand rides apparently. We have another two younger boys who are pretty unremarkable so far in terms of behavior, they're like 'regular shrimp' style behavior. I can't even tell the two of them apart except that one is slightly smaller than the other.

What color are yours? How many? Can you tell them apart?

I honestly don't know if I have ammonia trapped in the substrate, as you say the substrate is inert and has never leached anything... whether something can get trapped down there, not sure... I did do a water change today anyway, tested water just before and everything was fine... will also test now just to see where the nitrates are.

I'm trying to soften the water a little for the chilis but not sure where the perfect balance is so it's good for the shrimpies too. Trying to read more and more about gH and kH and all that jazz and to see what I should add in there to make sure they're liking life.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

Fun journal!

(Reader beware - this hobby has a way of taking over your life (and your discretionary spending budget))


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> Fun journal!
> 
> (Reader beware - this hobby has a way of taking over your life (and your discretionary spending budget))


Oh it does and it has.

Husband passing by me today: 'You're staring at it again.'

The money side I hope will be stemmed a little now that all the basics (so many basics? Who knew there were so many??) are mostly obtained, lessons about useless purchases somewhat learned, and I found a local group where we can trade some plant cuttings, fry etc which cuts down a bit on the spending.... I hope? 😅 Hey if I get lucky with shrimplets maybe I can trade them in at the LFS. 

I'm also starting a microworm culture for eternal cheap live food source. 

I'm still going to spend a ton, aren't I.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

So much. Lol


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Their Majesty Chug the Effervescent. My kid insists since snails are hermaphrodites, technically Chug must be addressed as ‘they/them’. I’m into it, and Chug hasn’t protested yet.








Chug followed by a chuglet. It could be one of the bladder snails but I think it’s a chuglet because their shells curl to the same side, the bladder snails curl in the opposite direction. 

I wouldn’t imagine snail parenting would be anything to write home about, but oddly we have seen chuglets riding on Chug’s shell and taking whole tours of the tank. Bladder snails will also climb on occasionally, but Chug does that rapid shell swing I never imagined snails to be capable of, instructing them curtly to get off at once.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

I missed it in your journal but what type of sword plant is that in the middle front ?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jake21 said:


> I missed it in your journal but what type of sword plant is that in the middle front ?


I think it’s just common Amazon Sword? This was still from my ‘Hello, good LFS Sir, I would like some aquarium plants for my aquarium, could you please sell me some?’ phase. I hadn’t yet arrived into my ‘oooh should I take the Helferi or the Stellatus Purple Octopus, they both have their good points, but very different uses within the aquarium’ phase.


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## jake21 (Aug 11, 2019)

LidijaPN said:


> I think it’s just common Amazon Sword? This was still from my ‘Hello, good LFS Sir, I would like some aquarium plants for my aquarium, could you please sell me some?’ phase. I hadn’t yet arrived into my ‘oooh should I take the Helferi or the Stellatus Purple Octopus, they both have their good points, but very different uses within the aquarium’ phase.


Ok. It doesn't quite look like Bleheri which is the more common species; looks a bit different - closer to but not quite uruguayensis. Oh well maybe when it gets larger it will be obvious.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jake21 said:


> Ok. It doesn't quite look like Bleheri which is the more common species; looks a bit different - closer to but not quite uruguayensis. Oh well maybe when it gets larger it will be obvious.


Oh I’m really curious now!! I’ll see if they have it marked next time when I’m at that lfs!!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So as it often happens in this hobby, death and tragedy.

Just when I was starting to feel good about myself and a little cocky about how clean and nice my water is, I did something that hugely upset my tank balance and murdered at least six of my rasbora, possibly more. I'm as crushed as crushed coral. My poor babies, I have failed them.

I literally have no idea what happened. People had said consistency is key so I was focusing on keeping everything steady-steady. The water change was the same as the two previous ones - half tap water with Prime, half distilled, brought down to room temperature..... I did move some plants around but the substrate is inert. Anyway who knows. Did I touch some chemical thing and then not rinse?Did my changing one of the filter sponges upset something? (They do say change them out every few months..... and there were plenty of other media left undisturbed....) Did I anger the Fish Gods by impure thoughts? I don't know.

Anyway last night I thought it was a total wipeout and all 16 would die. It looked terrible. This morning 9 or 10 are still swimming, looking like they've recovered from whatever the heck. No dead bodies on the ground anywhere, I have no idea whether it's the bacteria that took them apart or are my six tiny shrimp the most efficient clean up crew ever.

Water parameters rock solid as always.

The weird thing? The really really REALLY weird thing? All the shrimp are fine. Not fine, thriving. Loving life, unconcerned, totally chill, happy as clams. Floating around minding their business, picking at stuff, not a care in the world. I thought they were the sensitive ones?!!?!?! What could murder my fish but not shrimp?? Anyway. I'm grateful they're doing ok at least.

So yeah, now I'm terrified to touch anything hahah. Consistency consistency consistency.

RIP fishies.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

So weird... do you use hand sanitizer that doesn't get washed off before putting your hands in the tank? I've heard that can cause problems, though it's not something I've observed myself. Just a random thought.

Sorry about your fish!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> So weird... do you use hand sanitizer that doesn't get washed off before putting your hands in the tank? I've heard that can cause problems, though it's not something I've observed myself. Just a random thought.
> 
> Sorry about your fish!


Thanks. It is so sad.

There’s definitely tons of sanitizers around now but since I have the tank I’ve been avoiding them... whenever I go into my house I wash my hands immediately and even scrape under the nails. I also always wash hands with warm water whenever I touch the tank. All the stuff that touches the tank, tools, buckets, cup, sponge, don’t touch anything else and sit apart from everything else.... I am legitimately paying more attention than anyone else I know who has a tank.

My two guesses - switching out the filter sponge somehow shook the bb levels (but the sponge is one of like 5 different filter media in there). Or - I somehow had a moment of madness and forgot to add Prime to the tap water. But I 99.8% remember adding it in AND the shrimp are 100% fine which... wouldn’t they be more sensitive?

Final guess- I wiped the tank with a wet wipe on the outside, maybe I didn’t rinse my hands (but wipes are really neutral, I’m pretty darn sure I do rinse hands always.... but everyone can have that weird brain blip and forget I guess). But again..... shrimp? How would they just shrug it off?

I think it’s some sort of Rasbora Curse.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Oh it does and it has.
> 
> Husband passing by me today: 'You're staring at it again.'
> 
> ...


The Mrs. hasn't '_*yet*_' made any comments on the amount of time that I spend working on, and staring '_at_' the tank. She only comments on how much she likes it, asks questions about what is 'this', what is 'that'... and then doesn't pay too much attention to my long winded, technical answers. That's okay. She just wants it to look good. She also doesn't know how much money that I have spent on this little 20 gallon '_water feature_'. "*That's GREAT*!" If she knew... I'd never hear the end of it! LOL anyways...
... I'm curious about the shrimp thing. I'd like to put shrimp in the tank, to breed as food for my fish, once I add fish. I don't want the fish to eat the mature adult shrimp, only the young, small babies. Is it possible to do such a thing without having my aquarium choked with java moss, for hiding places? I'm also curious about the microworm thing. Never heard about that. I first started looking into hatching brine shrimp, but that seems to be a bit difficult to do if you want the brine shrimp to offer any real nutritional value as fish food.
I'd like to have a naturally occurring food source growing in the tank, but not sure if that is truly a viable thing in a 20 gallon box.
I've read that 'adult' Cherry Shrimp will get along fine with Kulhi Loaches, but the babies will get eaten. Do you know if this is true? I'm kinda wanting some Kuhli loaches in the tank. I'd love the shrimp as additional cleaners with their babies being occasional food for fish.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> The Mrs. hasn't '_*yet*_' made any comments on the amount of time that I spend working on, and staring '_at_' the tank. She only comments on how much she likes it, asks questions about what is 'this', what is 'that'... and then doesn't pay too much attention to my long winded, technical answers. That's okay. She just wants it to look good. She also doesn't know how much money that I have spent on this little 20 gallon '_water feature_'. "*That's GREAT*!" If she knew... I'd never hear the end of it! LOL anyways...
> ... I'm curious about the shrimp thing. I'd like to put shrimp in the tank, to breed as food for my fish, once I add fish. I don't want the fish to eat the mature adult shrimp, only the young, small babies. Is it possible to do such a thing without having my aquarium choked with java moss, for hiding places? I'm also curious about the microworm thing. Never heard about that. I first started looking into hatching brine shrimp, but that seems to be a bit difficult to do if you want the brine shrimp to offer any real nutritional value as fish food.
> I'd like to have a naturally occurring food source growing in the tank, but not sure if that is truly a viable thing in a 20 gallon box.
> I've read that 'adult' Cherry Shrimp will get along fine with Kulhi Loaches, but the babies will get eaten. Do you know if this is true? I'm kinda wanting some Kuhli loaches in the tank. I'd love the shrimp as additional cleaners with their babies being occasional food for fish.


hahahah yes make no mention of price tags, what they don't know cannot hurt them. 

Yes for sure there are lots and lots of fish that eat baby shrimpies but not adults. In fact there are hardly ANY fish who will NOT eat a newborn baby shrimp. That said, you want some of the new generation to manage to grow up beyond being fish snacks because shrimp only live a year or two so you want to have a sustaining population, if not growing. I don't think you need to be buried in java moss but some cover will do them good for sure - any carpeting plant would work tho, the tiny grass people use (is it dwarf hairgrass or something?), pearlweed, pellia, pick your poison. 

Kuhlis are adorable and I heartily recommend them. 

Microworm is from what I have seen so far THE easiest live food. You have to restart a new culture approx once a month but in the meantime just scoop a bit off the side of the container and dunk into the tank. I'm feeding mine for the first time tonight and I'll report on how it was liked by the survivors of my latest cataclysm. 

I was also thinking about having a steady supply of food in the tank.... I think tanks that can do that are not the manicured pretty ones though. You need algae, for a start, to feed the little guys... You need mosses and pellia etc to provide a nursery for the infusoria, you'd need daphnia or cyclops or something to be plentiful enough to always be available..... I'm not sure to what point it works. Shrimp breed fast but not daily. I think whatever extra bits of eating happen between the various species in your tank, you can't really avoid also feeding them on the side. Unless you have just shrimp which can probably live almost indefinitely on a largeish clump of moss.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

I need to scratch my head on this one. I was thinking about putting Kuhli Loaches in the tank first. As I read, they seem to be shy and like to hide by day. I've also read that they will '_not_' hide, at least not so much, if not frightened or made to feel nervous. If I put Kuli's in the tank first, maybe they'll build confidence and not be so leary when I add fish (they were there first). Cherry shrimp will eat things that Kuhli's won't, like both of their 'poops'. I also read that Cherry shrimp are prolific breeders if given a happy home. I have lots of hidey-holes in my tank, and not wanting lots of moss for baby shrimps. I'm thinking that the loaches will move into most of the hidey holes. I'm wondering if a small, softball sized clump of Java moss would suffice for a baby shrimp hideout, until they're ready to be eaten. I definitely need more plants. Maybe lots of plants and a loose ball of moss will work. Not sure. I'm scratching my head...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> I need to scratch my head on this one. I was thinking about putting Kuhli Loaches in the tank first. As I read, they seem to be shy and like to hide by day. I've also read that they will '_not_' hide, at least not so much, if not frightened or made to feel nervous. If I put Kuli's in the tank first, maybe they'll build confidence and not be so leary when I add fish (they were there first). Cherry shrimp will eat things that Kuhli's won't, like both of their 'poops'. I also read that Cherry shrimp are prolific breeders if given a happy home. I have lots of hidey-holes in my tank, and not wanting lots of moss for baby shrimps. I'm thinking that the loaches will move into most of the hidey holes. I'm wondering if a small, softball sized clump of Java moss would suffice for a baby shrimp hideout, until they're ready to be eaten. I definitely need more plants. Maybe lots of plants and a loose ball of moss will work. Not sure. I'm scratching my head...


There’s also liverworts.... Like I got a clump of crystalwort (presented to me as java moss hahaha) and honestly I find it very pretty and fun to look at, and I’m sure it would serve the same purpose as the java moss.

Also java moss if you attach it to a stone or pieces of wood will grow upwards in nice structures and doesn’t have to be just an unsightly tangled wad of green. 

Finally consider other liverworts like pellia or mini pellia. I was given a handful of pellia today and literally 5 out of my 6 cherry shrimp just marched into it immediately, even though I put in a corner out of the way.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Here’s three of them hanging in the pellia bush, two others are also in it but on the other side. First it looked like they were tangled in a deadly green spiderweb, hanging every which way, but everyone just loves it in there for some reason.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> There’s also liverworts.... Like I got a clump of crystalwort (presented to me as java moss hahaha) and honestly I find it very pretty and fun to look at, and I’m sure it would serve the same purpose as the java moss.
> 
> Also java moss if you attach it to a stone or pieces of wood will grow upwards in nice structures and doesn’t have to be just an unsightly tangled wad of green.
> 
> Finally consider other liverworts like pellia or mini pellia. I was given a handful of pellia today and literally 5 out of my 6 cherry shrimp just marched into it immediately, even though I put in a corner out of the way.


Hmm... Pellia sounds like an option! Sounds like the shrimp like it!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> Hmm... Pellia sounds like an option! Sounds like the shrimp like it!


Three of them are still in there  Definitely a crowd favorite. Just be careful because it is somewhat more delicate than other mosslike things, so a more vigorous fish can tear bits off while swimming, and every bit will grow into a new bush. People say it can get out of hand sometimes though I haven't yet met a plant I couldn't eradicate if I really set my mind to it hahah.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Today was uneventful, largely, which is good. I counted 11 fish still there during dinner, meaning 5 are gone. One was acting weird so we will count again tomorrow. They all look a little sorry and many are doing the weird glass surfing thing on the filter side.

When I google chili rasbora very often I find people asking about this behavior and not really getting responses. My guess is they’re prone to it when stressed. Everyone mentions they do it on the glass closest to the filter so I wonder if they’re searching for higher aeration or something. 

The shrimp are still nonchalant and seem delighted at their new wad of pellia. Another girl is saddled and I so hope we get berries at some point.

The snails are living their best lives. Chug has put down more eggs and I’m wondering whether to leave them. One of the chuglets has gotten pretty large already and was doing a good job cleaning the glass today.

I’m wondering now whether the problem with my tank is the extremely low bioload. Ten rasbora probably poop as much as a single guppy. Eight shrimp probably as much as half a guppy. Having a bioload of a guppy and a half with 29g is maybe just not enough to develop a robust cycle, which is why something may have shook the fish when I changed the filter sponge.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

...I mean it’s a weak theory but I don’t have a better one.

In happier news, microworms are amazing!!! So tiny and so easy to feed, and they wriggle and swim through the water which apparently makes them seem extra delicious. Even my scrappy sad bunch of chilis were all over them. 

It’s also really fun to watch them hunt the wormies, though I have to admit I feel somewhat sad for the wormies. But at least they live in an all-you-can-eat buffet before they’re hunted for rasbora lunch.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

The baby java ferns I got from a local aquarist in exchange for a bushel of my water vermin - um, I mean wisteria - are still floating because I’m low key scared to stick my hands in there. What did I do?? What killed 5 of my rasbora and freaked out all the others?? If I don’t know, how do I guarantee I won’t do it again? 

Ehh. 

In other news Lime the shrimp is a girl and not a boy. I still need shrimp sexing practice. 

In other-other news, Chug is still being my beautiful sparkly princess. Today I caught them doing an elegant water ballet just under the surface, too bad the light didn’t let me get good pics.


























Half the rasbora spend most of the light cycle glass surfing in the filter corner. The other half look back to normal though colors are still a bit off. They all seem to be loving microworm though, which makes me happy.










The shrimp are having a blast. Three of the four girls are saddled and my first girl Lemon was looking awfully fluffy underneath today, so I’m hoping fun things will happen... knowing my luck and personal record though it will probably turn out to be the first symptom of the Shrimp Plague or something. I’ll let you guys know.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

Thinking about your issue with the Chili Rasbora's odd behavior, I did some googling today. I googled *'*_*Chili Rasbora problems'*_. What I found, on one website, sounded quite similar to your situation, and suggested something to do with water parameters/chemistry. Wish I could remember the address of that post, but I can't. Try googling what I googled and look for the hit that mentions water parameters. It'll be somewhere around the middle of the top ten hits. I read several articles before landing on one that matched your problem. Sorry that I cannot be more helpful.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> Thinking about your issue with the Chili Rasbora's odd behavior, I did some googling today. I googled *'*_*Chili Rasbora problems'*_. What I found, on one website, sounded quite similar to your situation, and suggested something to do with water parameters/chemistry. Wish I could remember the address of that post, but I can't. Try googling what I googled and look for the hit that mentions water parameters. It'll be somewhere around the middle of the top ten hits. I read several articles before landing on one that matched your problem. Sorry that I cannot be more helpful.


Thanks for looking anyway!!!! I'll take a peek myself and see if I can find it. I did also a similar sort of google and noticed lots of people had this behavior with chilis but I didn't see many solutions. 

On paper my conditions should be near ideal for chilis, my water is pretty soft and the temperature is right in their range. They were actually acting pretty good before the weird thing happened and five died.... Now some are still freaked out and doing the glass surfing thing and some are really laid back checking out my scape, poking around little bushes of moss or little hidey holes in the wood, and coloring up really nicely. Hard to say why some are happy and some are not.... maybe some just need a longer time to recover from the shock of whatever the heck happened. I'm reminded over and over of how tiny and delicate these fish are.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Thanks for looking anyway!!!! I'll take a peek myself and see if I can find it. I did also a similar sort of google and noticed lots of people had this behavior with chilis but I didn't see many solutions.
> 
> On paper my conditions should be near ideal for chilis, my water is pretty soft and the temperature is right in their range. They were actually acting pretty good before the weird thing happened and five died.... Now some are still freaked out and doing the glass surfing thing and some are really laid back checking out my scape, poking around little bushes of moss or little hidey holes in the wood, and coloring up really nicely. Hard to say why some are happy and some are not.... maybe some just need a longer time to recover from the shock of whatever the heck happened. I'm reminded over and over of how tiny and delicate these fish are.


There was something different that I read in that _one particular article_. Different than anything from most other articles concerning Chili Rasbora. It stood out.
I'm thinking about a small school of Harlequin Rasbora in 'my' tank. Been looking into Rasbora's, in general. Your post made me a bit nervous. Now I'm digging deep into the species, LOL


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> There was something different that I read in that _one particular article_. Different than anything from most other articles concerning Chili Rasbora. It stood out.
> I'm thinking about a small school of Harlequin Rasbora in 'my' tank. Been looking into Rasbora's, in general. Your post made me a bit nervous. Now I'm digging deep into the species, LOL


You sound a lot like me  When I'm nervous I dig into info too  

I just went through a bunch of searches but didn't see what you were mentioning. I saw someone claim they are eating rotifers off the glass, but it doesn't sound likely to me because I don't see them making any eating motions. 

Lots of people suggested it was just what they (and lots of other fish) did while they were not yet 'at home' in the new tank and not fully habituated to the parameters. It is true that before my last upset they had largely calmed down, so I think I will try to just see if I can keep conditions very very even for a few weeks and see if that will calm them down a bit. 

Another mystery is that about half of them are doing it and the other half look happy and nonchalant. It's a little weird, you'd think if there was something in the water it would be hitting them all. 

Don't let my plight turn you off from rasbora though!! They are ADORABLE little fish, if chilis and such are a little too insubstantial for you lambchops or harlequins would be a great pick.... One I would ADORE but can't see anywhere around here are kubotai rasbora. I'm quite into rasbora now I think  And quite determined to find a way to make them comfortable.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So a little demonstration of my general approach to fishrearing.....

I got a microworm culture from someone local and was quite excited to start feeding live, especially since all the rasbora in the tank seemed exceptionally excited to hunt down the little wormies. (Poor little wormies. But they wriggle so enticingly.)

The guy breeds fish so he makes a lot of these, and he makes them on oatmeal. Which SMELLS. I had seen Cory from Aquarium Co-Op talk about doing them with mashed potato because that apparently reeks less as time goes on. I need to deal with this for another 3-4 weeks and it already smells like death.

So I decided to remake the culture with mashed potato. So I bought a box of mashed potato in Dollarama, just like Cory did, mixed it up, sniffed it and realized it smells like herbs.... So I read the ingredients and yeah it's mashed potatoes with butter and herbs apparently. And like fifty stabilizers and whatnot.

So now I'm wondering whether mashed potatoes from a box are going to be healthy enough for my tiny worms which I will feed to my tiny fish. And will they like the herbs. 

After a lot of to-ing and fro-ing I fall on the side of no, darnit, my tiny worms need to eat well.

So now I'm cooking them mashed potatoes. Well, mashed potato really, all it took was one. I really hope they will appreciate it. The potato is not organic but I hope they're not that choosy.

Anyway the mashed potato turned out perfect and the worm dollops have been deposited in there. It is fascinating to watch them wriggle. I get why the fish like them.

I'll report on how they do. (Worms and fish. And shrimp. Went to lfs today to pick up some tiny rocks and plant glue and they had a bunch of berried mama shrimp in there, was so tempted hahah... but I'm practicing zen as instructed and waiting for my own. No rushing)


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Another mystery is that about half of them are doing it and the other half look happy and nonchalant. It's a little weird, you'd think if there was something in the water it would be hitting them all.


I just figured it out! The happy and nonchalant chili's are males. They need nothing but a couch and a bag of potato chips to feel at home. The females are a bit more finicky, and just rebelling because the males won't get off of the couch and help them properly set up the house!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> I just figured it out! The happy and nonchalant chili's are males. They need nothing but a couch and a bag of potato chips to feel at home. The females are a bit more finicky, and just rebelling because the males won't get off of the couch and help them properly set up the house!


You might not be far off from the truth lol 😝 I’m still terrible at sexing them but the two brightest and chillest ones sure give a dude vibe. Also they spend a lot of time together, make of that what you will hahah.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> You might not be far off from the truth lol 😝 I’m still terrible at sexing them but the two brightest and chillest ones sure give a dude vibe. Also they spend a lot of time together, make of that what you will hahah.


OMG!!!  You won't stand much chances of breeding them '_that_' way! "Hmm." I know! Put a picture of Cary Grant on the opposite side of the tank, opposite from where the '_other_' fish swim with their faces to the glass. If *those two* head for the Cary Grant side of the tank, well... you just '*might*' have a problem! LOL


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> OMG!!!  You won't stand much chances of breeding them '_that_' way! "Hmm." I know! Put a picture of Cary Grant on the opposite side of the tank, opposite from where the '_other_' fish swim with their faces to the glass. If *those two* head for the Cary Grant side of the tank, well... you just '*might*' have a problem! LOL


Ahahhahaha are you saying that there’s any fish alive that could resist the charms of Cary Grant? 😂

Everyone is doing great tonight, actively hunting for dinner. I love dinner time because the glass surfers take a break and everyone is darting around with excitement and purpose. The microworms are the best thing I did for them so far, they love them so much.

Some of my chilis have gotten so big (in chili terms), and some are still little... when they were all tiny it was hard to tell but I guess they’re not all the same age. 

I did spot one today actually eating something off the glass, it wasn’t in the glass surfing corner, and it was one of the chill guys. He was searching the glass but his body language was totally different and occasionally he’d bite at something. I mean I couldn’t see anything there but maybe he was hunting tiny rotifers. Which is a pretty cool behavior to spot.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I do not understand this hobby at all.

Today our apartment got a little colder (we don’t control our heating but normally it’s crazy high) so I added a heater for the first time. I was worried the fishies will not enjoy the lower temp... but honestly everyone is looking better than I’ve seen in over a week. Before heater addition AND after. The Surfing Glass has been empty or near empty all day, with everyone milling contentedly about the tank, trying to nab bits of algae wafer away from the mean amano hogging the whole morsel...

Some of the fishies have colored up surprisingly well, while others are still looking pale. Everyone is looking in better spirits tho. I’m sticking to the plan, keeping an eye on everyone, hoping nothing goes weird again.









Shrimpies loving on the moss and crystalwort 








Everyone is cruising around happily, some low, some high. Only one or two glass surfers remain in the designated glass surfing corner.


























A translucent merah and a reddish brigittae. Much enthusiasm was shown for dinner.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

That's a bummer that your fishes died, so strange. I'm always so paranoid about forgetting to wash my hands or something when plunging them into the water, so 80% of the time, I wear gloves that are partially waterproofed. One theory might be that you might have disturbed some anaerobic bacteria pockets when upending your substrate (How Long Does It Take Hydrogen Sulfide to Kill Fish in an Aquarium? - Aquarium Sphere But then it would have smelled like rotten eggs...

I read up on microworm cultures after you had received them and was promptly vetoed by the wife when I told her the process haha. I do a yeast culture for my DIY CO2 system and while figuring it out, had a few leaks of yeasty gas into the office which she HATED. It's all figured out now with promises I keep the system airtight but microworm cultures are definitely not airtight. Oh well.

I hope your remaining chilis do OK. They are near the top of my list for when I finally stock my tank


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> That's a bummer that your fishes died, so strange. I'm always so paranoid about forgetting to wash my hands or something when plunging them into the water, so 80% of the time, I wear gloves that are partially waterproofed. One theory might be that you might have disturbed some anaerobic bacteria pockets when upending your substrate (How Long Does It Take Hydrogen Sulfide to Kill Fish in an Aquarium? - Aquarium Sphere But then it would have smelled like rotten eggs...
> 
> I read up on microworm cultures after you had received them and was promptly vetoed by the wife when I told her the process haha. I do a yeast culture for my DIY CO2 system and while figuring it out, had a few leaks of yeasty gas into the office which she HATED. It's all figured out now with promises I keep the system airtight but microworm cultures are definitely not airtight. Oh well.
> 
> I hope your remaining chilis do OK. They are near the top of my list for when I finally stock my tank


Hey I was worried about the microworms but they are AMAZING!!!

The guy who gave me the starter had them on oatmeal and that does smell pretty sour when you open it, but when it’s closed (the top is perforated so wormies can breathe but there’s a sheet of kitchen towel between the container and top and it prevents stuff- including smells- from getting in and out. My husband is the most sensitive and grossed out but he’s not minding them. Anyway I don’t like the smell of the rotting oatmeal so I restarted them on mashed potatoes, people say it’s much less smelly, I’ll let you know if it’s true!!! Fish ADORE them. And they are so easy to serve, I just swipe at the side of the container with a small paint brush (like for watercolor) and dip it straight into the tank. It’s the perfect food I swear.

I did think about the possibility of anaerobic bacteria but I can’t work out how quickly that can happen. My tank has only around 2 inches of substrate, it gets moved around relatively often as I have been planting and replanting, and the plants have been going crazy with the roots... I have even moved my rocks around a few times, and I only have two.... and the tank is only 3-4 months old. I got the vibe that anaerobic bacteria take more time than that to build up. But it’s not impossible for sure.

I’m also paranoid about my hands bringing something into the tank and I wash them SO MUCH hahahah. Never been cleaner.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Oh my gosh it is so good to see these fish having a reasonably good time. 

We’ve had a couple of wild developments in the last few days. First off, my painful experiences have made me very paranoid so every morning at breakfast I count everyone over and over to make sure everybody is still ok. So ever since the big upset last Saturday I’ve been counting 11 every morning. And I count like five times over so I’m pretty sure there were 11, even though they dart around like water fleas and are pretty hard to count.

Anyway this Saturday I do the count and I see a twelfth fishie but it looks really unwell. It was hovering right under the surface looking very weak. But I definitely hadn’t been seeing it around the whole week, which made me wonder if he had been lying low somewhere trying to recover but finally lost the battle and floated up. Anyway the poor little one died by the next morning but I was still bemused by this idea that my missing fish could actually have been hiding in the nooks and crannies of the tank.

Anyway fast forward to this morning when I do my morning count and count a total of 13. I tried to recount but they had already eaten the majority of the microworms and started wandering off so I didn’t confirm the number of 13 but I saw 12 repeatedly.... maybe I was just miscounting but I’m pretty sure there’s at least 12 fish in there, looking good and acting relaxed. Which is very exciting ♥

I’ll try to confirm numbers at breakfast tomorrow.

This ‘don’t do anything and let the tank mature’ malarkey is harder than it sounds. I want to mess with my plants hahah. I’m abstaining lol.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

Seems like things may not have been as catastrophic as you thought!

Sometimes it's easier to get a count by taking a picture and counting them in the pic.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> Seems like things may not have been as catastrophic as you thought!
> 
> Sometimes it's easier to get a count by taking a picture and counting them in the pic.


Oh that’s a great tip!! I’ll try that next time. The problem is they are so tiny and darty I often rely partially on movement to even spot them... but maybe snapping a pic right at the start of microworm time might work.

They love the worms so much they literally line up at my corner of the tank as soon as I show up in the morning.

I had never considered that some of my 5 missing fish could still be alive but still in hiding a whole week later... but who knows now, maybe the final 2 also show up at some stage, whether alive or dead. It was a very weird feeling, 5 fish just teleporting out of existence, no bodies no nuthin.

I’m also thinking now that it really was some sort of ammonia spike and that maybe the Prime overdose saved them. When I realized something was going very wrong last Saturday everyone in sight was keeling over, falling sideways, floating upright etc. I’m pretty sure I would have had more casualties if I had not overdosed Prime, even though the test was coming back clear for both ammonia and nitrite.

Anyway, today on Fish X Files!! Mysterious reappearing chilis! A happy surprise for sure.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Today, on Snail Wars.

General Chug is strategically peppering the tank with egg slime pods. I’m sure that’s the scientific name for them.

I’m just observing them for now because I’m trying to work out how they develop. Part of me wants to take them out and part of me wants to roll with it. I’ll probably take them out. Maybe.

I want a better camera for better tank pics.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> Seems like things may not have been as catastrophic as you thought!
> 
> Sometimes it's easier to get a count by taking a picture and counting them in the pic.


‘Take a picture of your fish’, they said. ‘It will make them easier to count’, they said.

Me trying:








That’s around five of them right there hahah. My little pico-fish.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

This is a fun journal! Enjoying the progress you are making and the way you write about it. Keep it up!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Fat Guy said:


> This is a fun journal! Enjoying the progress you are making and the way you write about it. Keep it up!


So grateful to have readers!! Journaling is fun because nobody in the real world wants to hear so many details on my tank lol.

In a similar manner of heartbreak, I had this conversation with my husband:

Hubs: ‘So those are the only fish you’re getting?’
Me: ‘Yeah, for now....’
Hubs: ‘How big are they going to get?’
Me: ‘Oh not very, they’re tiny fish. Maybe another 5mm max.’
Hubs, dismissively: ‘.... soooo ...... what’s the point of them, then?’
Me: ‘💔!!!!!’

Philistine.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Today, on Snail Wars.
> 
> General Chug is strategically peppering the tank with egg slime pods. I’m sure that’s the scientific name for them.
> 
> ...


I made the mistake of rolling with my snail eggs and now I regret that. I'm back to culling all the eggs in sight but now I have 50-100 baby snails I'm attempting to starve out. Maybe once I figure out how much to feed my animals properly and keeping algae in check. But nah, I'd rather have lots of shrimp babies rather than snail babies taking up bioload


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> I made the mistake of rolling with my snail eggs and now I regret that. I'm back to culling all the eggs in sight but now I have 50-100 baby snails I'm attempting to starve out. Maybe once I figure out how much to feed my animals properly and keeping algae in check. But nah, I'd rather have lots of shrimp babies rather than snail babies taking up bioload


Yeah it’s a weird balance. I do take out the eggs when it’s easy to do so. The snails are supposed to hit a natural balance at some point but Chug is not a moderate snail hahah. 

I’m trying to work out how best to remove the eggs without removing the leaf they’re on. I might experiment today.

I have a couple other experiments rolling at the moment which are aquarium related, will report when results become clear.

My big question is still on the feeding. At the moment I feed twice per day but the amounts are so ridiculously small. But then my fish are ridiculously small, so maybe even that is too much??? In the morning I always give microworms because I think the benefit of the live food is visible in their enthusiasm for chasing down the tiny wormies.... 

I do one swipe around the container edge with a small paintbrush and dip that into the water. Which... it’s a whole lot of individual worms for sure. But as a physical amount it’s literally invisible to the human eye, the brush doesn’t even look like it has anything on it. 

Dinner I switch up between crushed Hikari microgranules (I don’t know how to describe the amount but it’s like a third of a pinch hahah, I try to get just a few granules on the tip of the spoon), frozen bbs (Hikari cubes, which are pretty little, I cut each into quarters and one quarter is one portion), Bug Bites for plecs which I bought for my poor short lived Oliver (I take one and hydrate it in a small cup of aquarium water, then press it through a fine sieve to get a paste basically, then pour some of that into the tank as a feeding portion, usually not all of it as it seems like too much), freeze-dried bloodworms, though I’m starting to question the value of those, and finally when I drop in a quarter of a pleco algae wafer for the shrimp (once a week or so) I see the chilis coming down to take nibbles.

So I think I’ve got the variety side covered lol. 

Are these amounts still too much for 11 fish who could literally all fit together in a teaspoon? 

Maybe, darnit. I guess I can experiment with that too.

One thing I like about microworms is that the ones who get missed (because whatever food I put in obviously doesn’t get eaten 100%, they can’t find it all as it’s drifting down) should still be alive in there for another 12 hrs and hopefully they all get eaten before dying and starting to contribute to the water fouling... 

Anyway if anyone feeds boraras specifically and cares to share their amounts with me I’d be grateful for a second opinion. The food does always all vanish within a minute or two, but I think some of that is from falling to the ground or being sucked by the filter... the fish always seem eager to eat but then fish are always eager to eat?? I’m not 100% confident of my approach, is what I’m saying.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

OK WE DEFINITELY HAVE 13!!

I counted this morning at microworm time and I counted 13 like five times over. 

So, with the one who showed up dead two days ago and these 13 pigging out on worms, there’s 2 officially MIA. Presumed dead, unless they miraculously just pop out from somewhere too. But all in all with 13 survivors I’m counting myself lucky.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I’ve been thinking about something today. I wrote in my local aquarist fb group asking people’s suggestions for good easy plants that can let rasbora hide and feel more comfortable... and someone mentioned pearlweed, and how they could give me some.

So I went out today to meet with this perfect stranger (who also keeps boraras, maculatus I think) and the weather was so awful, an icy rain was falling... I told him we could wait for a better day, I didn’t mind coming back another time. But this person who doesn’t know me de-iced his car, got out of work, drove on horrible roads and met me at a metro station and brought me a bag full of pearlweed, another one with guppy grass, another with hornwort and a fourth with two beautiful java ferns and something I can’t ID yet.

I find this amazing. And then I think of everyone here investing so much time into supporting each other and teaching us newbs, and that’s amazing too. And then I thought about any hobby or passion I got into and very often people who would gather around it would be very generous with their time and knowledge because it excited them to share what they are passionate about. It kinda made my evening ♥

Anyway now I have hornwort, guppy grass, pearlweed and java fern. I’ll read up on them tonight and figure out a game plan for adding them to my happy-mishmash-of-easy-plants tank.

Everyone is already loving on the hornwort which I’m floating for now. And I have a new kind of snail too, but can’t work out what he is yet. He’s small and his body is pink. I’m hoping ramshorn.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So we have new friends!!! The new plants came with a bunch of adorable tiny hitchhikers - pink ramshorns ♥

I hope they get big and even more pink. One is the size of a pea and the other three are little, two still have that weird flattened shell that makes it look like they were stepping through a portal and the portal closed before they were through... 

The pea sized guy is quite accident prone and I worry about him already. First he was climbing on the heater, which for a snail is not the best idea... then as he was sucking on the pre-filter sponge, the bigger amano walked up to him, picked him up like a football, rolled him around in her many arms giving him a general once-over and plucking some algae off his shell, and then literally yeeted him over her shoulder, sending him floating straight up to the surface. It was funny to watch but he seemed very befuddled by this treatment.

I still don’t know how snails jettison themselves to the surface like that, as if they deploy a life vest or something. Anyway here he is calming down in the nymphoides.









The hornwort is giving me melty vibes and I hope not all of it melts because I really want to get it going...

I want to plant the pearlweed so it grows from the substrate but it’s just a giant wad of intertangled skinny branches at the moment, so hard to tell where it ends and where it begins... maybe I give up and just float it eventually.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Snails pull air into a bladder in their shells to float, apparently it's to help them travel quickly? Mine do it a lot, I find it quite amusing while my wife finds it creepy. There's even a subreddit dedicated to the act (r/parasnailing)
I learned to just plant the pearlweed wads deep with just a little bit sticking up, some of the leaves melted but after a couple of weeks of not seeming to do much, the roots took hold and then it exploded all over my tank. I have high light and CO2 but it is definitely the fastest growing plant in my tank atm, I think I need to trim it weekly


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Snails pull air into a bladder in their shells to float, apparently it's to help them travel quickly? Mine do it a lot, I find it quite amusing while my wife finds it creepy. There's even a subreddit dedicated to the act (r/parasnailing)
> I learned to just plant the pearlweed wads deep with just a little bit sticking up, some of the leaves melted but after a couple of weeks of not seeming to do much, the roots took hold and then it exploded all over my tank. I have high light and CO2 but it is definitely the fastest growing plant in my tank atm, I think I need to trim it weekly


🤩🤩🤩PARASNAILING!!!! This is the word I needed in my life!! 🤩🤩🤩

What snails do you have?

Good tip on the planting. I was like how do I plant this, I can’t make heads or tails of it. Hope it takes off like yours, I really like its messy vibe.

The hornwort shed horror stories are scaring me now but hopefully it survives the shock and I won’t have to vaccuum the tank for hours.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So my suspicions from yesterday have been confirmed - Gary the ramshorn is a disabled snail. He only has one antenna... I really hope it doesn’t stop him from enjoying his little snail life. Wonder what happened to him. He does seem a bit jinxy in general, poor soul.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Yesterday at breakfast I counted 12 fish again but today there were again 13... so there is one slacker who occasionally misses breakfast.

All 13 have learned that I bring yummy things, and this new knowledge brings some odd happenings. For starters, I cannot get anywhere close to the tank without everyone clamoring at me. So it has happened more than once that 13 eager fish have gotten a facefull of Thrive, or a facefull of distilled water at top-off. To avoid this I now have to sneak up on the tank like a ninja when I deliver non-food stuffs.

When I stick my hand in there to adjust a plant or something I’m practically assaulted - ‘food? Food? Maybe food? You didn’t bring it? Why not though? Food? You forgot? Go back and get it maybe? Food? Yes?’ Tiny piglets.

I’m very excited about having ramshorns. We named them Frank and Gary. They seem excited about zucchini in a way that other tank inhabitants don’t quite comprehend. Big Girl Amano kept flipping over the zucchini slice, with Frank on one side and Gary on the other, they hung on for dear life and munched on regardless. At one point she was walking across the slice which was see-sawing over poor Gary, then she flipped the whole thing again and remained eating on her back with the slice on top of her. No table manners at all.

My Hornwort still looks sad and freaked out but hasn’t dropped all needles yet. It is not floating though. Well, the tip part is, and the back has sunk. I’m observing it with interest.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

Yup, same thing if you walk into my daughter's room - turtle rockets into the corner of the tank where the food gets dropped, and churns around until something gets dropped in. Or you walk into the kitchen, and press the buttons to preheat the oven - two cats appear out of nowhere, looking for chicken nuggets. Critters are pretty food driven, as it keeps them alive outside of the four walls we provide them.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Yup, same thing if you walk into my daughter's room - turtle rockets into the corner of the tank where the food gets dropped, and churns around until something gets dropped in. Or you walk into the kitchen, and press the buttons to preheat the oven - two cats appear out of nowhere, looking for chicken nuggets. Critters are pretty food driven, as it keeps them alive outside of the four walls we provide them.


For sure! I had hoped they would also learn the time of day for food, morning and evening always at the same hour, and would know that at other times I’m allowed to exist near the tank without necessarily bringing edibles.... but I guess I expect a lot from them hahah.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Here we are, Gary on top, miss Amano eating while lying on her back which is wrong on so many levels, and poor Frank is somewhere behind her.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> 🤩🤩🤩PARASNAILING!!!! This is the word I needed in my life!! 🤩🤩🤩
> 
> What snails do you have?
> 
> ...


I have ramshorns as well, blue ones. I started with 5 and I'm pretty sure I have over 100 now. I'm battling with trying to starve them out and it isn't working. At least they've cleaned up my tank of everything but hairgrass algae. They'll eat that too once I zap it with enough Excel

Your Amano is so hilarious! Your fish are adorable too and I'm glad to hear that the catastrophe wasn't quite so catastrophic


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> I have ramshorns as well, blue ones. I started with 5 and I'm pretty sure I have over 100 now. I'm battling with trying to starve them out and it isn't working. At least they've cleaned up my tank of everything but hairgrass algae. They'll eat that too once I zap it with enough Excel
> 
> Your Amano is so hilarious! Your fish are adorable too and I'm glad to hear that the catastrophe wasn't quite so catastrophic


Hahah you could probably sell them? Lfs might take them... it’s my plan for all my surpluses. Recently someone in a local group asked me if I had any snails to share, I was like Oh boy!! Do I ever!! ♥

Yeah miss Amano is a riot. Mr. Amano is only known for getting randomly shoved by her. Maybe he will blossom with time.

The fish are beyond cute now that they’re not freaking out all the time. We still have one or two persistent glass surfers from time to time but I hope they will find new hobbies too. Now that everyone spends their day poking around the vegetation and picking invisible pray off the wood it’s way more fun to observe them. They cruise around in pairs or small groups and seem to all have their preferred spots. The reddest one of all is always swimming around the exact center of the tank, sometimes with a friend. It’s like his territory. Weird territory because there’s nothing there, just swimming space... I guess he wants to be sure we all see how pretty he is.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

A MOST FORTUITOUS THING HAS HAPPENED!! 

My shrimpy girl Lemon, our Original Shrimp, the very first one, is berried for the first time. We are beyond excited. 

I know she might drop them, it might not work out, etc etc but just the fact that she got there shows that the tank parameters must be decent enough to let cherries at least try to reproduce. All my fingers will be crossed for the foreseeable future. 

How absolutely exciting!!!


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> A MOST FORTUITOUS THING HAS HAPPENED!!
> 
> My shrimpy girl Lemon, our Original Shrimp, the very first one, is berried for the first time. We are beyond excited.
> 
> ...


Hmm. If you get baby shrimps... would this make you an 'Aqua-Mommy', or an 'Aqua Grand-Mama'?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> Hmm. If you get baby shrimps... would this make you an 'Aqua-Mommy', or an 'Aqua Grand-Mama'?


Grandma for sure!!! Lemon is the mom 😂 And my precious baby!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So you will all be excited to hear that I have not one but TWO pregnant shrimp. Berried, I know. Pregnant sounds more dramatic. My cousin asked when they are due 😅

Anyway two! Within the space of 2 days! Very cool. 

Ever since my rasbora catastrophe I’m terrified at every water change and keep expecting everyone to die. They haven’t. I still get the odd glass surfer but the majority seems happy, although I see large differences in coloration- some are very red and others quite pale. Not sure what to make of that.

I got a giant jar from Ikea (not a second tank mind you!! That would be nuts! Just a jar!) and will probably start a ta.... khhm, I mean a JAR journal for that. It might eventually become a shrimpy refuge if I need to separate out some colors or something. 

I’m not sure what to do with my new Hornwort, it hasn’t shed but half of it is floating (top half) and the other half is dragging around the tank like a ratty feather boa. I’m trying to figure out where it would be happiest. 

I have a very shady corner to fill out with something and am not sure what to stick there, maybe the pearlweed. I still haven’t planted it. 

Someone gave me a few strands of val and it’s so pretty but melting so bad... nothing to do but watch it I guess. 

Trying to work out how much RO water to add at each change to keep my parameters where they are and it’s giving me a math headache.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

This is the jar which is definitely by no means a second tank because I would never.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

When in doubt, add another tank. It's not really a problem unless you like money or leaving the house for extended periods.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> When in doubt, add another tank. It's not really a problem unless you like money or leaving the house for extended periods.


my gosh you guys can’t a girl have a jar? You know, for pickling moss and the like.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Husband ‘The apartment is too small, we can’t have all our room taken up by your random science experiments!!’ 
Me *hides giant jar behind back


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

I am looking forward to the pickle scape.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> I am looking forward to the pickle scape.


You get it!!! 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Another day, another berried shrimp... I have a total of 6 shrimp and three of them are preggers. And honestly the fourth is looking sus too. And the final two are boys, so.

Weirdly the last two feedings I’m not counting all the fish there, but I don’t necessarily think anything has happened to them... no weird behavior in the ones I do see, nothing odd in the tank parameters, no dead bodies anywhere so I’m assuming they’re somewhere in there and will pop up in a bit.

Bought some stuff today for the jar that is most definitely not a second tank. It will be adorable.

Managed to find limnophila sessiliflora in the lfs today... the guy said it might struggle without co2 but it was just 4,99$ (and that’s CAD, so, like, fifty cents in US money or whatever) so I grabbed a bunch and will see. Tomorrow is the Day of the Stuffening, when I try to shove all my new plants somewhere into the substrate and they all fit and don’t strangle each other. Any pretense of having any sort of plan or layout has long gone out the window.

I will post new pics after I have carried out The Stuffening.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Playing around with picklescape layouts. I got a tiny thing of anubias nana petite and another tiny thing of buce brownie, hoping to set up picklescape before the week is done. 

Not sure if the moss will have issues covering this very textured stone... time will tell I suppose.

Husband is very worried some new creature is coming to live in the picklescape. I have to keep swearing it’s just plants.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

Longer term, picklescape can become shrimp nursery after it's been running for a few months.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Longer term, picklescape can become shrimp nursery after it's been running for a few months.


That’s the idea, if it goes well....

I mean shrimp should be very happy in the main tank but if I get some weirdy color strain


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Weirdly eventful day in dinky 29g tankworld  

First off, I planted the limnophila sessiliflora I bought yesterday... it’s becoming a bit of a struggle to find free bits of substrate where things can be planted. I stuck it in the middle sort of, then considered taking it out again and rearranging some other things so it can fit on the far right and act as a balance to the frilly water wisteria on the left... but after staring at it longer I think I’ll leave it in the middle for now. It makes it a little harder to spot the creatures, but the chilis already seem to be interacting with it, so I’m glad. The lfs dude warned me it might not do well without co2, but that might actually turn out great, if it grows a little lankier and lets me see through it a bit better I will be pleased. 









I bit the bullet and pulled the baby ludwigias out, I only left two that seemed to be doing best... I’m not giving up on them, will try to plant them in my new picklescape and give them a chance to grow up without being bullied by the snails. 

Only 9 fish are showing up for meals, though I also see another two down in the nooks... that’s still not everyone but I can always hope the remaining few are hiding and not teleported out of existence again. Visible ones have good color and body language.

I still don’t know what to do with my Hornwort, it’s just lying there like a lethargic eel, not shedding but looking like it wants to. It’s annoying me lying there looking like a wet rat but I want it to recover so I’m leaving it be.










I bought tiny adorable anubias and buce for the jar. Another awesome and potentially useless experiment I’m doing for the jar is trying to start my mossy stones via the ‘moss smoothie’ methodology... apparently if you chop moss really fine (they say blender but I’m not putting moss in my blender lol, I just diced it real fine with a knife cause I got them knife skillz) and mix it up with equivalent amount of buttermilk or yogurt (I had yogurt, jury is out on exact amounts but I added a glob and called it a day) and spread it on rocks with a paint brush and then keep those rocks moist for a few weeks..... moss is supposed to attach and grow straight from the stone, no thread no zip ties no fishing line, rubberbands, or ugly tufts of white glue. So..... let’s see?



























So anyway.... there is space now on the right side where the struggling baby ludwigias used to be which will be rearranged probably so the Hornwort can go against the glass on far right end of the tank. At that stage I’ll have the basis of a heavily planted tank all stuck into the substrate and it will be a matter of waiting for things to grow in and grow out.... I wonder if everyone will make it. So far everyone is doing reasonably well but I feel like over time some of them will push out to take more space and others might find themselves smothered.

This is what the tank looks like now:


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Husband is very worried some new creature is coming to live in the picklescape. I have to keep swearing it’s just plants.


Okay, I've got this... pay attention!
What you do is to keep '_swearing_' that it is only for plants. Once there are shrimp in the pickle-jar, and hubby finally says something about it... give him the craziest look that you can muster, then start mumbling, _incoherently_, while occasionally injecting a clear statement, like..; "_Yes master, I hear you and will do what must be done_!" Don't forget to pull your largest butcher knife out of the drawer, and lay it down directly in front of the pickle jar, for added effect! 😈 LOL


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> Okay, I've got this... pay attention!
> What you do is to keep '_swearing_' that it is only for plants. Once there are shrimp in the pickle-jar, and hubby finally says something about it... give him the craziest look that you can muster, then start mumbling, _incoherently_, while occasionally injecting a clear statement, like..; "_Yes master, I hear you and will do what must be done_!" Don't forget to pull your largest butcher knife out of the drawer, and lay it down directly in front of the pickle jar, for added effect! 😈 LOL


Omg it’s so crazy it just might work!! Other options - I claim I cannot see the shrimp and keep insisting some of the plants sometimes move around to get better light. If forced to admit there are animals in there, I’ll claim they’re naturally occurring scuds that must have hitch-hiked on one of the plants.

What could go wrong? We definitely got dis.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Nothing much happened with either of my dinky tanks today... but it’s worth noting that I had 13 fish at dinner again. 

This really makes it a conundrum - after I change water, for a while only nine will come to eat... and I can sometimes glimpse an additional one or two darting through shadows very close to the substrate. 

Then in a day or two 10-11 will show up at the top to eat. Finally three-four days later everyone is coming to dinner, all 13, and so it keeps until next water change. 

Why does water change drive some of them into hiding? If it’s just something that makes them more comfortable I’m ok with that... just worried it means they’re stressing. Nobody is glass surfing any more though. So grateful for that.

Out of 3 shrimp who were berried I think one is no longer. No longer berried I mean, the shrimp is still there. She is the biggest yellowest one and somehow I actually think she’s pretty old and has been sitting in the lfs a long time. She wasn’t in the main yellow cherry tank with everyone else but next door with some snails, seeming somewhat forgotten. At any rate whether it’s that or whatever else, she seems to have dropped her eggs... other two chipper and doing great. One has opaque yellow eggs and the other has transparent ones, not sure if that’s a stage indicator or just variation.

A few of my stems are looking a little splotchy and are showing stunting of new leaves... it’s just one species tho so I’ll let it run for now and see over time. Actually a few plants have faint brown spots, like sun spots on human skin I guess. But only the one has stunted leaves. 

My guess is that my light sucks. But I’ve also noticed a large portion of the chilis hang specifically in the shaded portion of the tank, where the light doesn’t reach because of the way the cover is set up. I think they will hate a stronger light and will love it when all the plants grow in thicker and taller. 

Then there’s one little dude who is very red and always in the spotlight. I think he might be the dominant male.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Wow, so many stems! 
I was reading up on the moss trick, apparently some people were saying for aquascaping, the yogurt doesn't really feed the moss much but introduces mould problems instead, you really only need the moisture and keeping the container sealed for humidity. Yogurt sounded like it was more useful when you're trying to grow moss in terrestrial environments, like a wall in your backyard.
It looked like a giant hassle to me (and I was impatient) so I just chopped mine up and used superglue. Hopefully a few weeks of growth will cover up the white bits...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Wow, so many stems!
> I was reading up on the moss trick, apparently some people were saying for aquascaping, the yogurt doesn't really feed the moss much but introduces mould problems instead, you really only need the moisture and keeping the container sealed for humidity. Yogurt sounded like it was more useful when you're trying to grow moss in terrestrial environments, like a wall in your backyard.
> It looked like a giant hassle to me (and I was impatient) so I just chopped mine up and used superglue. Hopefully a few weeks of growth will cover up the white bits...


Yeah I was wondering whether the yogurt was applicable but decided to give it a whirl just in case... I’m hoping that the mold will subside before I put them in the actual tank. For the moment they’re in a tupperware container and I mist them twice daily. It can’t go into water anyway until the moss is well attached, once it is I’ll see what I can do to get rid of the mold risk... maybe a very gentle bleach bath, not sure. 

If none of that works I guess I scrub down the stone and try glue like everyone  The being patient part is extremely annoying.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Why does water change drive some of them into hiding? If it’s just something that makes them more comfortable I’m ok with that... just worried it means they’re stressing. Nobody is glass surfing any more though. So grateful for that.


Do you test your water for PH prior to, and 'after' water changes? Is there a temporary difference in PH values until the water change settles in and stabilizes? What about water temps. Are you matching the water temp of your tank when you add _new water_ to it during water changes? These things can effect the behavior of your critters. I've heard that 'Cichlids' are notorious for spawning the day after a water change. I know that you don't have Cichlids, but you get what I mean. Water changes 'can' have an effect on your critters...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> Do you test your water for PH prior to, and 'after' water changes? Is there a temporary difference in PH values until the water change settles in and stabilizes? What about water temps. Are you matching the water temp of your tank when you add _new water_ to it during water changes? These things can effect the behavior of your critters. I've heard that 'Cichlids' are notorious for spawning the day after a water change. I know that you don't have Cichlids, but you get what I mean. Water changes 'can' have an effect on your critters...


Yap, I’m matching the water temperature pretty close and whenever I do side by side tests of ph it looks the same... but the tests we use are not superbly precise so there could definitely be some swinging that’s too ambiguous for the test to pick up. 

I think they’re just weird and moody fish. This morning I came to feed them an hour later than usual and only 3 fish came up to eat lol. Obviously when I didn’t show at 8 like usual they ran off screaming ‘The Dark Mistress is displeased with us!! We must perform the sacrificial rites to appease her!!’ or whatever and they all missed the worms.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> ‘The Dark Mistress is displeased with us!! We must perform the sacrificial rites to appease her!!’ or whatever and they all missed the worms.


LOL... "That's funny!"


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

OMG. I just binged your entire journal and loved it! As someone else new to the hobby I look forward to continuing to follow your journey.

I really felt the disappearing fish mystery. We’ve had 6 neon tetras and 2 glass catfish completely disappear on us. A Kuhli loach too but we found him in the filter happily munching away at the sponge ha.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> OMG. I just binged your entire journal and loved it! As someone else new to the hobby I look forward to continuing to follow your journey.
> 
> I really felt the disappearing fish mystery. We’ve had 6 neon tetras and 2 glass catfish completely disappear on us. A Kuhli loach too but we found him in the filter happily munching away at the sponge ha.


Kuhlis are apparently surprisingly sturdy 😅 Wait, everyone disappeared in one go and never turned up? Do you have cats? 😅

So glad you enjoyed it!! I love writing it. I have nothing to contribute by way of amazing tech setups, impressive DIY stands or sculptural scapes, but I still love documenting my goofy little gang.

Yesterday I had treated the shrimp to a morsel of algae wafer and the chilis had picked at it till their stomachs were square, so I made them skip dinner. They were very excited to see me and my worms in the morning 😊

Then in the afternoon I had another little fish X-file, though a harmless one I think.... all the fish were standing stock still. Sort of like they do when they’re sleeping, but they always lie low and hide in little nooks when sleeping, now they were all together on the shady side of open water, all still as if they had run out of batteries. They looked like they were listening raptly to an emergency radio broadcast.

Only the alpha was swimming around casually in the light as always, guarding his little patch and chasing off anyone who floats into it. He’s the only one I’ve figured out so far who has a clear territory and defends it. Others seem to mingle loosely together, brigittae and merah alike.

I’m going to check out a new lfs tomorrow, and probably buy a few more plants I have absolutely no room for.









See? I never get such clear pictures because they never keep still. There was another larger immobile group, but they were levitating in shadow so the pics aren’t good.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I went to the new lfs in town that apparently just got a new shipment of buce.

This was a tactical error on my part but an intentional one so we’ll let it slide.

Me looking at all the buce. 

Guy explaining.

‘So this one here is the extreme metallic blue...’
‘Bruh.... it’s green.’
‘Yes right now it is green but with time and the right light the leaves will take on a metallic blue sheen... anyway this one here is the brownie purple....’
‘Bruh..... that’s very green’
‘Yes right now it is all green but don’t forget they have been in a dark box for 8 days traveling from Indonesia... They should get some purple coloring soon. Now this one here is a rusty red....’
‘Bruh.....’

Anyway yes they have all these very promising names but they all green. I took the extreme metallic blue. Which is entirely green. But the guy did find one of them that had one leaf that did indeed appear to be metallic blue. It was pretty.

My other buce is some sort of brownie but it wasn’t specified what kind, nor did the shop guys know. I’m gonna race them and see which one takes less time to become anything at all other than green.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chug: ‘let me just slurp up those tiny sprigs of algae off your shell mlewmlewmlew’
Gary: ‘Aaargh!! Unhand me you ruffian!!’









Friends keep asking me what shrimp sexy times look like ever since I told them I have berried shrimp... so I took this pic to illustrate lol. I doubt they’re actually doing anything naughty, looked like Lime was just picking some stuff off of Banana’s back... she did not like it and sent him packing pretty quickly tho. I qualify this by noting that I’m no shrimp sexpert, so technically anything is possible.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> So I went to the new lfs in town that apparently just got a new shipment of buce.
> 
> This was a tactical error on my part but an intentional one so we’ll let it slide.
> 
> ...


My 'Velvet Tri-Color Buce' is, yes... 'GREEN!" LOL 
I've had it floating in my tank since Tuesday, under high lighting, plenty of Co2, and a lot of fert's. Just planted them today. Buce being very slow growers... I can only wonder how long it will take them to show some of that tri-color stuff?


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Chug: ‘let me just slurp up those tiny sprigs of algae off your shell mlewmlewmlew’
> Gary: ‘Aaargh!! Unhand me you ruffian!!’


Chug is a 'pond-snail', yes?
How do you keep pond snails from taking over your tank? I '_think_' that I am down to three small snailets, and I'm leaving them alone, for now. I hear that snails are a good gauge of water quality/balance in a tank. Gonna see what happens...???


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> Chug is a 'pond-snail', yes?
> How do you keep pond snails from taking over your tank? I '_think_' that I am down to three small snailets, and I'm leaving them alone, for now. I hear that snails are a good gauge of water quality/balance in a tank. Gonna see what happens...???


Seriously, buce names are like wine notes.... ‘rich bouquet of oak and rosemary with subtle notes of elderberry and eggshell’ like yeeeeah I’m still gonna go with ‘tastes like wine’.

So yeah, green. All the buces are green. I guess all we can do is wait for the magic to come in. Mine is floating too, right under the light.

Yap Chug is a pond snail. They’re not going wild with the babies tho. It’s like what @somewhatshocked kept saying, apparently as long as there isn’t an overabundance of food in the tank (excessive organics in the water, from uneaten fish food or poop or leaf death) they kind of decide to have a reasonable amount of offspring.

Chug laid two or three clutches of eggs that I wanted to observe to see how they develop and they never matured. Not sure what that was about. At one point there was a bunch of Chuglets in the tank but I don’t even see them any more. There’s still a smattering of bladder snails but not what I’d term an excessive amount. And Gary and Frank my new pink ramshorns. I really hope they make more ramshorns because I find them ultra adorable.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

This is my biggest snail. It's about 7mm long. How fast will it grow?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> This is my biggest snail. It's about 7mm long. How fast will it grow?
> View attachment 1038800


Pic is a bit blurry but that’s probably a bladder snail so it will stay pretty much that size. And they cause zero trouble.

Chug made a mess of my tissue culture plants but these guys didn’t touch them.

This is I think what we dream of for the buces..... (random pic off internet) but even on most sale websites they’re like ‘Buce Extra Red!!!’ And it’s like green with one reddish stalk. ‘Buce Mega Galaxy Purple!!!’ Green with one darker green leaf. ‘Buce Ultra Rainbow Technicolor Glitter Blue!!!’ Just green. Not even a whitish stem. Or like studio photos in the dark where you can barely see anything obviously filtered to death.

Anyway hope my metallic will be a bit like this:








That’s downright pretty, if it’s real. And I’d want down the line to try one that has red stems, like Kedagang which doesn’t seem too expensive.

Also ‘extreme metallic’ is hardly a scientific name, I don’t think they even know which exact species they’re selling. In the other store three radically different looking plants were labeled ‘buce brownie’. And there’s like a hundred different brownies out there.

I find when something becomes popular or new everyone latches onto the bandwagon to make new ‘more exciting’ subvariants and cash in. It’s a little gross.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Pic is a bit blurry but that’s probably a bladder snail so it will stay pretty much that size. And they cause zero trouble.


Good call. I looked into 'bladder Snails' and believe that you nailed it! "Many thanks for your input!" "I just learned something!"


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Kuhlis are apparently surprisingly sturdy 😅 Wait, everyone disappeared in one go and never turned up? Do you have cats? 😅
> 
> So glad you enjoyed it!! I love writing it. I have nothing to contribute by way of amazing tech setups, impressive DIY stands or sculptural scapes, but I still love documenting my goofy little gang.


Not a mass disappearance but over a period of about a week. It’s all been one at a time except for one night when we lost 3 neons. 
We have a newish upside-down catfish that I suspect for the neons but I wouldn’t have thought he could get the glass catfish whole. They’re easily double the size of the neons if not more. 

You’re an excellent writer (and very funny) and your passion for your tank family really shows!


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Not a mass disappearance but over a period of about a week. It’s all been one at a time except for one night when we lost 3 neons.
> We have a newish upside-down catfish that I suspect for the neons but I wouldn’t have thought he could get the glass catfish whole. They’re easily double the size of the neons if not more.
> 
> You’re an excellent writer (and very funny) and your passion for your tank family really shows!


"Excellent writer, indeed!" "If she's not already a published author... she's missing a really good chance!"


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Not a mass disappearance but over a period of about a week. It’s all been one at a time except for one night when we lost 3 neons.
> We have a newish upside-down catfish that I suspect for the neons but I wouldn’t have thought he could get the glass catfish whole. They’re easily double the size of the neons if not more.
> 
> You’re an excellent writer (and very funny) and your passion for your tank family really shows!


Aw you guys are too kind ⭐

Woah that would be quite a suspense thriller, every night another murder!! Are upside-down catfish even aggressive? I thought they were more or less peaceful? But then a lfs sold my mom a crayfish once under the guise of ‘don’t worry he won’t touch anyone!!!’ And next morning we found him finishing off the tail end of a cory.....

Is everything stable now? No more mysterious disappearances?

This, by the way, is my very not blue, metallic, OR extreme ‘extreme metallic blue’ buce.









I changed water today... I always worry at water change since that one disastrous one but everyone seems to have made it. I started noticing some faint brown splotches on a few different leaves and wondering if I have a fert deficiency or something but it finally dawned on me that it might be brown algae gathering on the leaves. I’ll investigate tomorrow.

On the fish side everyone was very nicely colored today and strolling happily about, whatever alien force was mind-controlling them last night, it seems to have gone off to do other things.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Wow, that buce would be awesome if it was real. Buce sounds daunting to a n00b like me, I have one nano-buce for funsies and have only just started to stop killing it. This was an interesting article I found that mentioned that buce doesn't shed it's initial green emersed leaves and also that you won't get as much color in a low-tech, low-light setup.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Wow, that buce would be awesome if it was real. Buce sounds daunting to a n00b like me, I have one nano-buce for funsies and have only just started to stop killing it. This was an interesting article I found that mentioned that buce doesn't shed it's initial green emersed leaves and also that you won't get as much color in a low-tech, low-light setup.


Yap I talked to another local aquarist yesterday who pointed me to the place and he said some of his are over three years old and they’re all still just in various shades of decidedly not anything but green. I guess that’s the low tech fate 😅 I’m ok with it, they’re still cute. 

How did you stop killing yours?!? Let me know so I can perhaps not even start killing mine! 

I have 2 now. At first I thought them ‘pro level plants’ but now I’m getting uppity, lol. Everyone says they need no care tho, so let’s see.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Woah that would be quite a suspense thriller, every night another murder!! Are upside-down catfish even aggressive? I thought they were more or less peaceful? But then a lfs sold my mom a crayfish once under the guise of ‘don’t worry he won’t touch anyone!!!’ And next morning we found him finishing off the tail end of a cory.....
> 
> Is everything stable now? No more mysterious disappearances?


Another glass catfish is missing this morning... We've had one Upside-down catfish since we set-up our first tank that is chill as can be and has never bothered anyone. We added another one who is much more active; I haven't seen him go after any of the smaller fish but AqAdvisor says they're too aggressive to be with Neons and the new guy is our biggest fish. The only other possibility would be a Bleeding Heart Tetra or a Dwarf Gourami who may be big enough for the neons but definitely not an entire glass catfish... We've covered the filter intake with some mesh to prevent any more escape attempts.

Back to the topic of your tank so I don't completely hijack your journal (sorry) - it was my understanding that buces were fairly hardy and beginner friendly. I'm hoping so at least since I've ordered some for a planted tank I'm putting in my office ha.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Another glass catfish is missing this morning... We've had one Upside-down catfish since we set-up our first tank that is chill as can be and has never bothered anyone. We added another one who is much more active; I haven't seen him go after any of the smaller fish but AqAdvisor says they're too aggressive to be with Neons and the new guy is our biggest fish. The only other possibility would be a Bleeding Heart Tetra or a Dwarf Gourami who may be big enough for the neons but definitely not an entire glass catfish... We've covered the filter intake with some mesh to prevent any more escape attempts.
> 
> Back to the topic of your tank so I don't completely hijack your journal (sorry) - it was my understanding that buces were fairly hardy and beginner friendly. I'm hoping so at least since I've ordered some for a planted tank I'm putting in my office ha.


The ‘like’ is for your buce, not your poor missing catfish!!!

Oh it’s no hijack at all, exchange is really what this place is for..... how dull it would be if it were just my posts in here! I love it when someone shares their own thing.

Yeah I’m hoping the buces are easy. I have no grand aspirations, my ask of any plant in my tank is ‘don’t die’. I’m the same in other areas of life lol, my main ask of my kid is ‘don’t be the worst in class, in anything. Everything else is fine.’ I think I have low standards 😂

Man it sucks if your upside down catfish is a stone cold killer.... the glass catfish are biggish but they seem so immaterial .... like would you even see any remains? Poor thing. If you were very determined maybe you could set a blue light and some sort of camera to spy on the tank at night and catch the villain. Although in my mom’s tank we did have whole groups of new fish just fail to adapt and die off rapidly and then never be seen again. But also my mom’s tank was the tank of nightmares that mama tropical fish scare their fry with to get them to stop misbehaving and eat all their baby brine shrimp. ‘If you’re not good you’ll get sent to Lidija’s mom’s tank!!!’ 😬

Could you isolate the upside-down catfish for a week or so and see if the murders stop? In a quarantine tank or breeder box or something?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

A remarkable thing has happened today in dinky 29 gallonland. I was scrubbing my cover where the glass sits because one of the theories of what’s going on with my plants was not enough light... when I realized that there’s s black plastic strip there which is actually the cause of my light not reaching the whole width of my tank. I have a inch and a half of substrate roughly that is forever in shade, and I’ve been breaking my brain trying to work out what could survive there, with the tank goblins in the dark. So I had a random brainwave and I moved the light out of its proper position on the cover.... and sure enough, there was light. No more Dark Side in the tank. 

Of course the actual light sitting the way it’s sitting now just looks stupid and wrong. 

But no more Dark Side ⭐

In other news, nothing really. The hornwort is still half floating and trying to recover, miraculously the needles haven’t all come off but I can see a fair chunk of the plant will have to be discarded. Tips are growing though and I hope she makes it through.

My kid has this sacred mission to give the snails the most incongruous names in existence. He turned Helen the pond snail into Chug (ok I admit that was an improvement), and now he’s campaigning to rename Gary the accident prone pink ramshorn into Jeb. I shall not yield. 

I’ve decided the dominant chili’s name should be Pretty Boy. He is extremely diligent in his beauty displays. I really hope things work out for him because I think I’m going to like his plans. I’m not sure how he plans to pick a girl tho, since they all hover in a small cloud in the shadows and he pays them no mind. But I’m assuming he knows what he’s doing. He looks very competent for someone shorter than 3/4 of an inch. 

My yogurt moss is staying hydrated and I really hope it takes. Zero idea how long it takes either. I’ll.... know it when I see it?


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Yap I talked to another local aquarist yesterday who pointed me to the place and he said some of his are over three years old and they’re all still just in various shades of decidedly not anything but green. I guess that’s the low tech fate 😅 I’m ok with it, they’re still cute.
> 
> How did you stop killing yours?!? Let me know so I can perhaps not even start killing mine!
> 
> I have 2 now. At first I thought them ‘pro level plants’ but now I’m getting uppity, lol. Everyone says they need no care tho, so let’s see.


Mine was getting smothered by diatoms at first (shrimps and snails cleaned that up), then I had it floating in limbo while I took my time acquiring proper hardscape to glue it to. I thought it'd do OK just tangled in my stems but now that it's properly glued to some wood, it's beginning to really thrive, and I can see leaves popping every week. I accidentally broke a piece of rhizome off in the transition but I guess that's a good thing because that's turning into a second Buce. I have them kinda out in the open but shaded by my floaters, they seem to really like that.

Haha, I asked my 3-year old niece to help name my shrimp, she's given them names like Spiderman, Noob, and Poop. The names cycle around because it's hard to differentiate between similar looking reddish shrimp.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Mine was getting smothered by diatoms at first (shrimps and snails cleaned that up), then I had it floating in limbo while I took my time acquiring proper hardscape to glue it to. I thought it'd do OK just tangled in my stems but now that it's properly glued to some wood, it's beginning to really thrive, and I can see leaves popping every week. I accidentally broke a piece of rhizome off in the transition but I guess that's a good thing because that's turning into a second Buce. I have them kinda out in the open but shaded by my floaters, they seem to really like that.
> 
> Haha, I asked my 3-year old niece to help name my shrimp, she's given them names like Spiderman, Noob, and Poop. The names cycle around because it's hard to differentiate between similar looking reddish shrimp.


Kids’ naming strategies are often of questionable taste lol. When we first got our two shrimp, one was yellow and the other greenish and he called them Lemon and Lime, which was really cute but thwarted by the fact that Lime lost his greenish tinge with his molts. Then for the second pair through some weird jokey brainstorming he had settled on two extremely rude names that rhyme with ‘itchy’ and ‘ducky’. Which was inappropriate but hilarious lol. Anyway now there are six and named ‘Lemon and The Gang’, just as well since Lemon and Grapefruit are both berried so, as you said, naming will soon become impractical. Though at the current level of 6 shrimp I do actually recognize them individually.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

You wouldn’t think something noteworthy happens with a tank every single day, and yet it really feels like stuff is changing in there daily.

I spent a lot of time wondering what to do with all the advice from my struggling plants/fert question thread. One idea was that the tank light might be too low, but the leaves showing the worst wear were in the light, not in the shade... (the same shade that has since been banished, happily, giving me room to plant my pearlweed and coontails). 

Another idea was that the water might be over saturated by micronutrients, which didn’t seem hugely likely from the estimated fert amounts but I suppose still isn’t entirely impossible. 

The final idea was that the plants were hungry at substrate level and that some root tabs might help things. So I bought a tiny pack of 5 and shoved 3 into the substrate right away. I’ll buy a proper thing of them if they do the trick, the tiny bag prices are highway robbery. But I didn’t want to give 50$ for a ‘maybe’. 

I have yet to work out if 3 is perhaps too little to make a difference.

I saw red val in the lfs and of course now I want it desperately. Should be called ‘rust-tipped val’ but it’s very pretty all the same. And it stresses me how all my plants are the exact same shade of green. Except my extreme metallic blue buce, ha!! 

Which is a slightly darker shade of green.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok am I just drinking the kool-aid here or is my extreme metallic blue buce actually somewhat metallic blue?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I went to get the red val today, because I have a problem. On a whim I asked them if they ever get rotala indica... both are small attempts to get some bits of non-light-green into my tank, which is a bit too monochrome at the moment... and the guy goes oh yeah, we have it right now! I’m like I’m pretty sure I didn’t see it in the tanks? And he’s like ‘oh no, it’s over here in the bucket!’ 

So luckily I got myself a bucket rotala and a nice sprig of red val... the bucket rotala is beautifully rosy violet at the tips right now but I’m not sure if it won’t just revert to green in my tank... red val is.... hopefully red no matter what? At the moment I have no idea if my ludwigia super red will even make it to adulthood, so I’m doing what I can to get some colors in there.

The shrimp are all in the same spot today, which seldom happens. They’re all combing happily through the glob of pellia. I hope the pellia doesn’t need a lot of light because it definitely isn’t getting any... I don’t see it growing much but I don’t see it dying either, so... fingers crossed?


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

I'm definitely seeing blue in your buce! Nice find with the rotala indica; can't wait to see some pictures of it.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I'm definitely seeing blue in your buce! Nice find with the rotala indica; can't wait to see some pictures of it.


No sooner said than done!! 








Aren’t planted yet, just hanging out in the tank waiting for me to have a minute to plant them...

This is the val floating up there, not like you can see much 









This is what the tank looks like now - lots of temporary situations, floating buce, floating recovering hornwort, floating val, ratty floating hygrophila trying to grow some aerial roots and turning its face up to the light... pots with other buce and tiny anubias waiting for the jar to be ready, and the new rotala (my first rotala!) still in its ceramic ring. It’s a mess, but a happy one.

Couch side:









Entrance side:


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

So many plants I'm jealous!! The rotala looks great.

Is the basket under your filter to break-up/reduce flow?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

In fish news, I think my chilis need some friends... I’m torn between getting more chilis and increasing the flock, or going for a different nano school....

In the lfs they have lampeye killifish with the chilis and those are pretty darned cute... they had kubotai rasbora today and they are adorable but a little bigger than I thought? They don’t seem the right contrast to the chilis... I’m not sure what else I fancy. I’m not into lambchops or harlequins, most tetras are sort of meh... although the ones with white fin tips are pretty cute but I feel the difference between them and the chilis is too big?

I’m not sure. Maybe more chilis really is the answer.

They had some clown killifish too, those looked lowkey adorable. I’d like some tiny killifish. Maybe the lampeyes would be good... from what I’ve seen in the lfs they get on great with the chilis.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> So many plants I'm jealous!! The rotala looks great.
> 
> Is the basket under your filter to break-up/reduce flow?


Yes, so chilis don’t get blown about. They still have to put in a bit of effort to pass there but before I was literally worried they’d get blown against the rocks. It’s not a beautiful solution but the whole tank has a bit of a ‘hack it together’ vibe, since we started from a kit that was chosen for its price and not necessarily functionality.... and now the aim is to not spend another 1000$ touching it up. 

There sure is a lot of plants 😅 Many are bought but many were gotten as gifts or trades with local aquarists which I find especially cool.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> In fish news, I think my chilis need some friends... I’m torn between getting more chilis and increasing the flock, or going for a different nano school....
> 
> In the lfs they have lampeye killifish with the chilis and those are pretty darned cute... they had kubotai rasbora today and they are adorable but a little bigger than I thought? They don’t seem the right contrast to the chilis... I’m not sure what else I fancy. I’m not into lambchops or harlequins, most tetras are sort of meh... although the ones with white fin tips are pretty cute but I feel the difference between them and the chilis is too big?
> 
> ...


Haven't you heard killifish are for old dudes! 😂 

What about some CPDs? Or pygmy corys?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Haven't you heard killifish are for old dudes! 😂
> 
> What about some CPDs? Or pygmy corys?


Omg yes they won’t sell you killis without your senior citizen card, dang!! 😂 

I have a hard time explaining it but I’m not particularly into cories...... somehow? Maybe the pygmies as the teeniest ones... I just feel with the chilis almost anything overpowers them, visually. Like everything is bigger than they are. 

We do want to get a honey gourami eventually but that doesn’t solve my school problem.... hmmmmm. 

I like things like green neons and black neons and heck even regular neons but my kid is not into them and technically it’s his tank, so.

Danios would definitely freak out the chilis, I read a couple of people asking on different forums about what to do to help their chilis relax because they brought in CPDs and the chilis all went into hiding...

They had something amazing at the store today, a dwarf anchorfish I think it’s called!! Like a teeny tiny hammerhead pleco. I need to look them up.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Channeling @EmotionalFescue, but with my bad tank light, worse camera, and worst photography skills 😅

Pretty Boy was checking out the red val. Which is not red at all but a very lovely shade of chocolate copper.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

Photographing tanks is hard and these look good, so #winning


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> Photographing tanks is hard and these look good, so #winning


You are too nice. I’m still waiting for the photography tips you offered to share in your journal ♥


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

This hobby is riddled with dawning realizations.... hahah. My first one for today- I think my actual boraras brigittae are plenty red enough. But I think I’ve just realized that besides the impostor merah I was sold the first time around, I also have a few impostor uropthalmoides that came in with the second batch of brigittae. This leaves me with two courses of action: one, buy another batch- it would probably be mixed again but at least I would have more chilis. I have 13 fish but I now realize I might only have 4-5 chilis? Maybe even 3-4? I think we need more chilis. Second course of action- find some naevus and complete the collection I guess?

Why did I have to pick such a complicated fish??

I planted the indica today, and the red val, which already came with two runners poking out if it which is pretty dang cool. Hope it spreads. I’m saving a few stems of indica for the jar too.

Speaking of the jar, it’s flooded at least.... the branch is oozing wood snot or whatever that is called, the surface is filming over. I’m trying to experiment with low kh but regular gh, so I’m using half tank water and half distilled and then adding back gh. Still trying to work out the amounts I need to do each week in order to keep steady parameters. But happily as nothing will live in there for a while yet it’s not a stressful experiment - if I mess up I’ll spill the gunk out and try again. 

Also here is Gary being gorgeous just under the surface:








Gary has adorable algae tufts on his shell. This is why other tank inhabitants often grab him and give him a once-over to clean him.








My actual chilis are the ones who come out into the light, I now realize. And most of the pale guys are merah and/or uropthalmoides (winner Scrabble word, that one)
















My metallic blue buce has got subtly pink stems, which I appreciate.








Indica being super pink!! I’ve planted some and left some floating to wait for the jar. I hope the planted section won’t lose the pink. It might tho.








New hitch-hiker snail, I’ve quite the collection. Still not sure what kind, maybe mystery.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Extra post just to show off this one single strand of red val.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I took the tiny buce and tiny anubias out of their tiny pots... I thought they could stay in there and wait but the jar will take longer to set up and I didn’t think they liked being cooped up in the little pots... I ended up dividing the rhizomes in a few chunks as seemed logical, and the buce pot included a few small fragments of extra rhizome which I all diligently saved as best I could. One was a little soft on one side and one was literally just a few mm with two one-mm leaves, but I’m curious to see if they will grow out. 

Since both pots divided into more individual plantlets than I expected, I think I will add about a half to the hardscape of the main tank, and save the other half for the jar.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

My new pastime is daydreaming about my future dream tank, because people are a species cursed to never appreciate what they already have. It’s sort of a re-do incorporating everything I’ve figured out during my fantastically long four month aquaristic career.

- Tank format would be longer and shallower than my 29g - either a 30g, or a 33g long. Maybe 40g breeder if I really go nuts. But 33 long would be my first choice. I really like the tank volume I have but hate sticking my hands in to the elbows and want just a little more horizontal swimming room for my tiny fish.

- Hinged glass top cover to allow it to open up and be ventilated during the summer

- possibly the same substrate. I appreciate the plant growing superpowers of the active substrates, but most of them look like piles of tiny bunny turds. There I said it. Maybe I’d use something underneath and cap with Flourite sand but I still prefer a system that won’t change on me as stuff in the soil depletes/ deteriorates.

- Still a mix of tap and distilled water, aiming for lower kh with decent gh (a bit of hardness added)

- A carefully thought out scape with more dynamic shapes throughout, hopefully with found wood and rock. I’m noticing the chilis love to interact with my driftwood.

- Lots of moss growing on flat stones sunk into the substrate.

- Giant mess of plants with a mix of slow and fast growing, but also more thought put into their placement- who is in the strongest light, who is taller, who needs more space... etc. 

- hopefully a lot of buces as they are growing on me! Also they add to the overgrown jungle look. At least one long twirly crypt like crispatula.

- definitely still chili rasbora. One more school of tiny fish tbd. All the snails. Maybe crystal red shrimp if parameters allow it. Maybe a red honey gourami.

- Decent light, raised a bit above the tank.

- Decent stand with closing doors and room to shove all the tank maintenance junk inside. This Fluval stand blows.

- Possibly sponge filters, maybe two. Definitely still low tech. I’d want to avoid HoB’s if possible. And canisters seem way overwhelming.

I think that’s everything? Anyway, probably years away but it’s nice to have goals.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Sounds like a good tank! I’m impressed you’ve stuck with just one this far.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Sounds like a good tank! I’m impressed you’ve stuck with just one this far.


I’m constrained by finance, apartment size and spouse


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

AAAAAAAAAAA!!! BABY SHRIMP BABY SHRIMP BABY SHRIMP!!!!!!









They’re just a few mm across. We only saw one swimming around, no amount of staring helped us spot another. This is my kid trying to look at him with a loupe but it’s so small it’s literally hard to find it in the loupe viewfinder.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> AAAAAAAAAAA!!! BABY SHRIMP BABY SHRIMP BABY SHRIMP!!!!!!


Very exciting!!


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## JasonBD77 (Feb 6, 2013)

Fun journal! I only have one Buce at the moment. It took a while to get going but once it did I started seeing that blue sheen on the leaves. It grows slowly but has branched quite a bit. I did encourage that by cutting a spot or two on the rhizome a while back.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

JasonBD77 said:


> Fun journal! I only have one Buce at the moment. It took a while to get going but once it did I started seeing that blue sheen on the leaves. It grows slowly but has branched quite a bit. I did encourage that by cutting a spot or two on the rhizome a while back.


Thanks ⭐

I’m looking forward to seeing how mine do. Once I separated them out from the little pot there were quite a lot of separate plantlets there and I really hope they will appreciate not being smooshed together any more. 

Do you know what species yours is? I like to research my tank inhabitants so it’s really bothering me that neither of my buces came with a proper scientific name attached.


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## JasonBD77 (Feb 6, 2013)

LidijaPN said:


> Thanks ⭐
> 
> I’m looking forward to seeing how mine do. Once I separated them out from the little pot there were quite a lot of separate plantlets there and I really hope they will appreciate not being smooshed together any more.
> 
> Do you know what species yours is? I like to research my tank inhabitants so it’s really bothering me that neither of my buces came with a proper scientific name attached.


Mine is Buce Theia. I have Cryptocoryne that I bought without tags. Those are next to impossible to identify without seeing a flower.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

JasonBD77 said:


> Mine is Buce Theia. I have Cryptocoryne that I bought without tags. Those are next to impossible to identify without seeing a flower.


I just googled it, it looks.... like a buce, lol. At least you know what it is!!

I have a bunch of some crypt the lfs guy sold me back when I knew nothing and yeah, it’s anybody’s guess. My single one throws three radically different types of leaves - wide flat serrated-edge green ones like wendtii, long brownish skiny wavy edge ones with rusty backs, and long skinny wavy edge but green middle stripe and rusty leaf edges with green back. I first thought it’s just multiple species intertwined but nope, one single plant that hasn’t decided yet what it wants to be when it grows up.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Yesterday was supposed to be water change day but stuff happened so today was water change day. I still worry a lot on each water change day, even though it’s just a 20% change and I work very hard to match the new water to the old.

But it still feels precarious. 

Especially with shrimp birthing. The shrimp community was acting very weird today, they were having some sort of town meeting in the pellia. Five out of six were stuck in there, debating something very important. Later I saw a few come out but not either of the mamas. Also I kept staring at the tank but saw no babies today. 

Chili behavior was also a little sus today. My husband laughs when I tell him they’re prowling, because they’re just under 3/4 of an inch, but I promise you prowling they were. I saw one glide smoothly under the wood that separates the pellia patch from the rest of the tank. Staring at the neo committee meeting. Very very sus. 

I also changed jar water, and planted some temporary stuff in there until my moss smoothie rocks are ready. I’m not sure if the moss smoothie is working, I cannot tell if anything is attaching and growing or merely sitting there moist and inert. I guess I wait a little longer.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Congrats on your shrimp babies! I read somewhere that new shrimp mommas are pretty noob and can drop a bunch of their first batch of eggs as they learn to hold and fan them so that might be why you aren't seeing many?
Haha, my shrimp have town halls every day in the middle of the tank where at least 5 of the 8 gather together to chat. Prowling sus chilis/wannabe chilis are not good though...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Congrats on your shrimp babies! I read somewhere that new shrimp mommas are pretty noob and can drop a bunch of their first batch of eggs as they learn to hold and fan them so that might be why you aren't seeing many?
> Haha, my shrimp have town halls every day in the middle of the tank where at least 5 of the 8 gather together to chat. Prowling sus chilis/wannabe chilis are not good though...


Not good at all!! And they were looking weirdly fat even though I didn’t give them dinner because of the water change. Very very sus.

I was expecting some to get dropped but both mamas still had their eggs one day before we saw the one born shrimpie... so at least one should have managed to release the full batch... they are SO small tho and very possibly just lying low somewhere until they get a little bigger. I’m very curious how many we’ll end up having. I really hope the water change I did didn’t disturb them.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Yay my Shrimp King variety pack arrived!! It’s five bags of only 6g each but honestly with my number of shrimp and how often I feed them, I think it will last for ages. Mixed in with spinach leaves and such. 

Still no shrimplets in sight, except the lone one we had spotted free swimming who probably got himself eaten by prowling chilis.... I really hope the others are hiding and not, like, dead and stuff. People do mention not seeing shrimplets for the first week or so, so I’m holding on to hope.


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

is that variety pack off Amazon that ships from Germany?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> is that variety pack off Amazon that ships from Germany?


Yap, that one! It looks so good! I gave them a mineral stick and a snow pop and they seemed to really love both.

A local guy is selling some other high quality shrimp foods but he wanted more money than the Germans and that just felt unfair somehow. And I liked the idea of trying 5 different things.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

My chilis have started to perform weird maneuvers. Yesterday I saw three swimming in close proximity but at slightly odd angles, basically forming a triangle but still moving in unison. Today two seemed to hover side by side in some sort of dare/challenge until one rushed the other one and ended up chasing him a whole half-circle around the tank. 

Wonder if this is somehow supposed to impress the bimminz?


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

I was gonna get that but it seemed so far to get shrimp food from..haha. i still have tons of other stuff so probably will hold off. Good to know it was well received though.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> I was gonna get that but it seemed so far to get shrimp food from..haha. i still have tons of other stuff so probably will hold off. Good to know it was well received though.


Oh yeah they mega went for it. Will let you know how the other three fare. The snow pop is especially fascinating in how it explodes.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Guppy grass is shooting up now and I love it, as do the shrimp. Originally I just stuck a wad of it in that corner, not bothering to plant, but now individual stems are reorienting themselves and going straight up at breakneck speed.








This is the current look of the whole tank. It really doesn’t change that much between shots but maybe one day I can do a little growing montage.








I’ve attached the tiny anubias to the wood and tiny buces to the rock... others will go into the jar that definitely isn’t a second tank once it’s ready. For the moment I didn’t like them constantly being bullied by the filter, so I trapped some in the guppy grass and others are corralled on the surface under the light.

My hornwort is still trying to recover and I think it made a baby?? There is a very small hornwortlike thingy floating around. I’ll report when it becomes clear. 

I have another baby plant that just straight up looks like nothing in the tank. It’s minuscule. Very cute. I’m really hoping I can get it to grow.








Baby java ferns I got gifted in a plant trade had been deteriorating severely but they are starting to have healthy new leaves which is cool.
















Ok he is blue, darnit, I admit it.


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

looking good... but still waiting for some pickles....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> looking good... but still waiting for some pickles....


Well pickles are held up by my moss smoothie rocks pickling in a moist tupperware hoping to finally spot some growth.... I’m letting them pickle until next water change, if nothing has attached by then I’ll just superglue a few bits on.

I’m also not sure if buce is gonna love being added to an uncycled pickle jar.... but this I guess is something we are going to discover together.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

I'm interested in seeing how your floating buce compares to the rock-attached buce. I tried to keep mine alive the same way, threading it in some stem plants, but it only really took off after I finally got my wood and attached it


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> I'm interested in seeing how your floating buce compares to the rock-attached buce. I tried to keep mine alive the same way, threading it in some stem plants, but it only really took off after I finally got my wood and attached it


I’m ok with it not thriving until it gets attached... as long as it doesn’t die. The attached parts are definitely already showing some small growth.


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## JasonBD77 (Feb 6, 2013)

I’m not certain if the information is accurate but I’ve read from trustworthy sources that Buce doesn’t do well in uncycled tanks.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

JasonBD77 said:


> I’m not certain if the information is accurate but I’ve read from trustworthy sources that Buce doesn’t do well in uncycled tanks.


Yeah I’ve read the same. I might keep them in the main tank until the jar gets properly pickled.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

I enjoyed this journal so much! Thank you for sharing your learning journey with us, @LidijaPN! I'm trying to work my way through figuring out a planted tank too, and it is definitely an experience. Now I've been inspired to try to find some time to update my own journal!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> I enjoyed this journal so much! Thank you for sharing your learning journey with us, @LidijaPN! I'm trying to work my way through figuring out a planted tank too, and it is definitely an experience. Now I've been inspired to try to find some time to update my own journal!


Do it!! I want to know how everyone is getting on!!! ♥


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Tonight, on DinkyTank news....

An impossibly tiny plantlet discovered floating around during last water change was finally identified as a red tiger lotus baby. Its parentage is presumably drawn from the first plant that entered the tank, which died a slow, painful and ignominious death before the eyes of the tank’s aggrieved owner. The appearance of the smol plantlet rekindles red tiger lotus dreams in her heart, though the plantlet is so minuscule it is still difficult to pin much hope on its survival. More to follow as the situation develops. 









In other news, the shrimplets presumably born to two berried shrimp who are no longer berried still remain elusive, only one has been spotted to date since their inferred hatching on March 13th. Sources close to the neocaridina community say this is not uncommon behavior, so tank owner remains hopeful they will eventually emerge. 

In Jar News, first inhabitants have been spotted in the jar - two bladder snails and one mini ramshorn. They have entered the Jar without proper authorization or documentation but will be allowed to stay for the time being, as long as they assist in clean-up efforts. Anyone caught laying a feeler on the ludwigia will be immediately launched over the moon. Or at least into the garbage bin.









The red vallisneria has been spotted performing some inexplicable fertility rites, involving multiple runners that create tiny plantlets with roots, but then also continue to snake on and push against the substrate with additional runner segments, thus pushing said plantlets and their roots up and away from the substrate they could attach to. Several other members of the plant community residing in the tank have called this behavior random and irresponsible, with the crystalwort in particular looking dismayed and commenting ‘go home Red Val, you’re drunk.’ Whether any of these runners manage to find their way to the substrate and become upstanding members of the local val community, remains to be seen.

















This concludes tonight’s episode of DinkyTank News - stay safe, and plant on.


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

LidijaPN said:


> This concludes tonight’s episode of DinkyTank News - stay safe, and plant on.


LOL....well done!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

BREAKING NEWS - THIS JUST IN!

Closer inspection of the Red Tiger Lotus deathscene reveals an entirely tiny Red Tiger Lotus unmistakably growing in the same place as the old. The plant currently only has two leaves, each measuring just under 1cm, but is undeniably attempting a valiant comeback. 

More on this breaking story as it develops.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

This is the kind of news coverage I can really get behind!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> This is the kind of news coverage I can really get behind!


Hahahha beats all the regular breaking news that just make you scared and depressed 😅


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

Haha! I enjoyed this so much! I am rooting for the new tiger lotus plants! I really wanted to put one in my tank, but I've heard they can get too big for a 5 gallon. If anyone cares to contradict this story, I have a tiny spot by the drift wood that I could fit it in I think . . .


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Haha! I enjoyed this so much! I am rooting for the new tiger lotus plants! I really wanted to put one in my tank, but I've heard they can get too big for a 5 gallon. If anyone cares to contradict this story, I have a tiny spot by the drift wood that I could fit it in I think . . .


I’ve seen them sort of behave themselves.... but not to the degree of fitting in a 5g 😅 I’ll take a photo of the one in my LFS that inspired me to want them, it looks like a mystical being from another world. 

Plantlet is still floating and the leaf grew a couple of mm overnight. The stalk is so thin i have no idea how I’d even grasp it to plant into the Flourite. If it were sand it would work... I could try to grow it out in the jar maybe. The one that’s phoenixing from the old one’s grave is looking tiny but good, I’ll take out some of the hygrophilas around it who are doing weird things anyway and see if I can give it room to be its best self.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> I’ve seen them sort of behave themselves.... but not to the degree of fitting in a 5g 😅 I’ll take a photo of the one in my LFS that inspired me to want them, it looks like a mystical being from another world.


Someday, when I'm not living in a rental and can get my dream tank that is 40 gallons, or 125 gallons, or maybe the size of the ocean, I'll be able to get one. . . _sighs and gazes dreamily off into the middle distance_

I'd love to see pictures of that one at your LFS, though!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Someday, when I'm not living in a rental and can get my dream tank that is 40 gallons, or 125 gallons, or maybe the size of the ocean, I'll be able to get one. . . _sighs and gazes dreamily off into the middle distance_
> 
> I'd love to see pictures of that one at your LFS, though!


I’ll try to snap one on Sunday when I go to see if they have more chilis.

I thought before starting out my dream tank would be some massive thing but the more I learn about how tanks are run the more I think I’ll max out at, like, 33 long..... make a teeny tiny world and make every inch count... the big ones... I don’t know how people maintain those.

We’re also renting and I debated the 29g and hubs was like ‘how are we gonna move it one day’ and I was like ‘somehow!!!’ 😑


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

Sure, you can get lotus in something smaller than a 5g. But that's just the part that is in the water... Micro Lotus tuber page

Disclaimer - this place is about ten minutes from me, and I could walk around there all summer long once stuff is in bloom. They also carry temperate and tropical carnivorous plants. Bonus!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Sure, you can get lotus in something smaller than a 5g. But that's just the part that is in the water... Micro Lotus tuber page
> 
> Disclaimer - this place is about ten minutes from me, and I could walk around there all summer long once stuff is in bloom. They also carry temperate and tropical carnivorous plants. Bonus!


So beautiful!! Wish we had similar stuff here....


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Sure, you can get lotus in something smaller than a 5g. But that's just the part that is in the water... Micro Lotus tuber page
> 
> Disclaimer - this place is about ten minutes from me, and I could walk around there all summer long once stuff is in bloom. They also carry temperate and tropical carnivorous plants. Bonus!


Very cool! Fun fact - I live in the only place on the planet where Venus fly traps are native to.


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## Mr.Submarine (10 mo ago)

I don’t have anything substantive to add, but it was a real treat binging your journal from start to finish. I write for a living, and I have to say, Lidija, you have a gift with the written word. It is one thing to write down what happened with an aquarium, and quite another to tell a compelling story about those events. Your journal is the latter, in spades.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Mr.Submarine said:


> I don’t have anything substantive to add, but it was a real treat binging your journal from start to finish. I write for a living, and I have to say, Lidija, you have a gift with the written word. It is one thing to write down what happened with an aquarium, and quite another to tell a compelling story about those events. Your journal is the latter, in spades.


That’s some high praise!! ♥ I love the fact that my minuscule fish have a small readership ⭐ Hope to read about your fish adventures too!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Very cool! Fun fact - I live in the only place on the planet where Venus fly traps are native to.


Ooh you’re in one of the Carolinas? ♥ I had a flytrap for around 4 years, I called her Griselda. She was amazing. My cats eventually murdered her. Cats suck a little bit :/


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So sometimes weird things happen in life.

A while back I wrote about a nice dude who came out in a crazy sleetstorm and drove on icy roads to give me some pearlweed. (And hornwort and Java ferns and guppy grass. And pink ramshorns by accident. The man is a biotope unto himself, a plethora of species. But I digress)

So I was looking around for some buces because everybody digs buces and I had major FOMO happening around them. And he recommended a good place, and I ended up getting my ‘metallic blue’ there, which is also unfurling a new leaf now, I’m taking bets on whether it will be blue or not. So I wrote him to say hey thanks and we talked about buces and he said all of his are also sort of green because he also runs low tech tanks.

So a bit later when a segment of my blue buce actually legit sort of started looking blue, I wrote him again to say hey hey, I have a buce that is something that isn’t quite just green, and I have a spare plantlet, if you want to give it a try? And he sounds enthusiastic and says oh I have one that’s supposed to be ‘silky blue’ but isn’t really, we can trade.

And I say brah, you did such a nice thing for me last time I’m trying to give you something for a change, you don’t have to give me anything.....

Anyway he comes to pick it up, I gave him two plantlets, one of the ‘metallic blue’ and one they labeled as ‘brownie’ although who the heck knows.

And he’s like oh wow thanks, anyway I brought you these.

And it’s the mentioned plantlet of buce silky blue (100% green), a fairly large crypt beckettii petchii (whose name sounds like someone is joking), and MASSIVE frikkin cuttings of peace lily and monstera to grow immersed from the filter.... so now I have this very randomly:
















Anyway someone else also gave me pothos cuttings so I will have to shove that in there somehow too. I think they’ve forced my hand in getting a different cover that will accommodate all this emersed madness. Because what am I going to do, NOT shove all of it into the tank? Preposterous.


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

How do I get nice guys to come to my house and give me monstera cuttings?!

Now you just need some epiphytes like bromeliads to complete the land-sea-sky plant trifecta


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Jaguar said:


> How do I get nice guys to come to my house and give me monstera cuttings?!
> 
> Now you just need some epiphytes like bromeliads to complete the land-sea-sky plant trifecta


OMG I’m already overwhelmed with this amount of wildlife lol. Where do I add those, give them little parachutes? 😅

Haha I think it’s not that hard, just chat with people in local aquarist groups. I got a bunch of cuttings and mosses from different people, I gave out a bunch of cuttings too, as well as a whole bunch of microworm cultures (oh yeah I also got my microworm culture from another person in that group)... 

I think aqua people are just very in love with their hobby and pretty eager to share.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Awesome; sounds like you hit the jackpot with your local group! I haven’t had any luck finding one near me.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Awesome; sounds like you hit the jackpot with your local group! I haven’t had any luck finding one near me.


I guess it varies from place to place but FB is an amazing resource for this. Also helps to live in a big city. 

There’s something about plants that makes them so shareable haha. Because they propagate and make more of themselves and you’re like ‘I’m rich, I’m rich!! You get a cutting, and you get a cutting, and YOU get a cutting, and I still have my plant!!’ 

I’m a little worried how the emersed ones will fare for light. Our living room is not terribly bright at any time of day....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Also I am now obsessed by blue glints on my buce.


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

guess you will be eating a lot of pickles in the near future?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> guess you will be eating a lot of pickles in the near future?


Pickled monstera apparently!!! 😂 🌱🥒


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Sooo water change day is always fun!

I cut a finger on my right hand today and wasn’t eager to dip it in the tank so I did all the plant care with my left which was.... surprisingly cumbersome. My hands look equal but their capabilities are wildly mismatched.

Anyway I persevered, all the red val runners are now planted (four), bits of guppy grass are back in the Guppy Grass Corner, new gift crypt is planted, Java fern growing backwards into a tree stump has been turned around, area around fledgling tiger lotus is cleared.... 

I think there are baby ramshorns in the tank which makes me very happy. I guess Frank and Gary have been hard at work. What there aren’t any of is shrimp babies. I spend inordinate amounts of time staring at the tank and find it deeply odd that they could hide so completely. It’s been exactly 7 days since they supposedly hatched..... I guess they could pop up in the next few days, but I’m not sure.

Adult shrimp seem happy and carefree. Fish are having lots of little jousting matches. The jar things are growing. Oh, and there are nitrites in the jar!! First time I see these colors! (@Virtus inspired me to look. Back when I was cycling my main tank I didn’t have the kit yet)


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Still no visible baby shrimp. I’m somewhat less confident about their survival. I feel like if they were in there, someone would be out by now, even by accident.

I tossed in a Shrimp King Complete stick today and there were three adult shrimp and one minuscule pig-fish nibbling on it when last I looked.

My one uropthalmoides looks bewildered and skinny compared to the fat and relaxed brigittae and merah. I really think he doesn’t like being alone. He hangs with the others but doesn’t seem at ease. Poor dude. I do want to get at least another spoonful of fish, maybe another uropthalmoides ends up mixed in. I haven’t seen anyone sell them specifically. 

The jar now has one absolute chonker of a bladder snail, the likes of which I’ve never seen in the main tank. They’re Jar King at the moment I guess.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Spoonful of fish 😂😂😂

I'm not ready to give up on the shrimplets ✊

We need Jar King pics!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Spoonful of fish 😂😂😂
> 
> I'm not ready to give up on the shrimplets ✊
> 
> We need Jar King pics!


Well I’m estimating my 12-13 micro rasbora could about fill a teaspoon so I figure another teaspoonful would be good at least. 

Yeah I will definitely keep lookout for another week or so..... but I’m not sure. Maybe the water change on Spawning Day wasn’t good for them. Or something.

Haha chonky snail pic 😂 I have one but it doesn’t show their chonkiness sufficiently. But here, until I obtain a better glamour shot:


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Is this not an impressively chonky boi?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I always try to recommend people get involved in their local aquarium club/society! You’re right about FB, there are often local groups to be found even if there isn’t an official club in the area. While fb groups are nice, I feel like clubs offer so much more than just a sales platform as fb groups seem to be. There is usually a deep knowledge base and, at least in my experience, the people involved are always willing to share and encourage newer hobbyists. We’ve seen people come and go from the hobby and usually want to do whatever possible to ensure people have a positive experience so they stick around. Plus, I’ve made some great friends from my local club. A couple of us don’t even sell each other stuff, you want something swing by and grab it. Over the years we’ve traded all sorts of plants, fish, shrimp, tank, and more. One of the things I love is that when I get expensive new plants I can share. Then if for some reason I kill it, one of the others has usually done well (or vice versa). 


Edit: whoops, just realized the post about the guy you met was further back than I thought, probably should’ve quoted that. Lol.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

johnson18 said:


> I always try to recommend people get involved in their local aquarium club/society! You’re right about FB, there are often local groups to be found even if there isn’t an official club in the area. While fb groups are nice, I feel like clubs offer so much more than just a sales platform as fb groups seem to be. There is usually a deep knowledge base and, at least in my experience, the people involved are always willing to share and encourage newer hobbyists. We’ve seen people come and go from the hobby and usually want to do whatever possible to ensure people have a positive experience so they stick around. Plus, I’ve made some great friends from my local club. A couple of us don’t even sell each other stuff, you want something swing by and grab it. Over the years we’ve traded all sorts of plants, fish, shrimp, tank, and more. One of the things I love is that when I get expensive new plants I can share. Then if for some reason I kill it, one of the others has usually done well (or vice versa).
> 
> 
> Edit: whoops, just realized the post about the guy you met was further back than I thought, probably should’ve quoted that. Lol.
> ...


No, all good!! 😂 

I agree wholeheartedly on everything you said. People are really generous and willing to share... I could have had 20 more fish by now for free, everyone is breeding something and if you’re giving them something they’re always like ‘hey you want some CPDs? You want a pair of Kribs? You want some guppies? You sure you don’t want any apistos?’ Like I literally have to fight them off, like please don’t give me any fish lol. 

Plants I always take tho. If it doesn’t work out I can deal with it. Fish are harder. 

Anyway I think the group saved me at least around 100$ so far, if we imagine I’d have paid full price for everything I got gifted...

Some things didn’t take, or I ended up trying them and deciding against, like the duckweed... but that’s also the joy of trading plants. If it’s not working for you, just pass it on!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

SO!!

My kid finally got his formal autism diagnosis yesterday (we knew he was autistic for years now, but getting him diagnosed took over 9 months, the process was really hard on him and we’re very glad it’s over finally) so I went out and got us 6 Celebratory Fish to mark the occasion. I’d judge them at around... half a teaspoon in total? But- dan dan DANNNN - they’re not chilis!!

Yep, my senior citizen card better be in the mail, because I bought 6 Norman’s Lampeye Killifish. They - are - beautiful.

















They are also very tiny, very bright, very fidgety and very difficult to photograph. But they school!!! Well, for now they school. I hope they keep schooling, I find it adorable.

The chilis are a bit taken aback. Except for Pretty Boy, he’s still strutting in his limnophila patch. I hope everyone adapts soon... I haven’t seen any direct contact between the chilis and the lampeyes. They’re about the same size right now but the lampeyes should grow somewhat bigger. 

I’m so excited, we have a new species!!! Next week we’re getting some embers, when they come out of lfs quarantine. Life is wild here in DinkyTankLand. Lu is very pleased with the new members, he accepts my love of chilis but feels the tank looks fishless with just them. And, like, not wrong- I’ll admit it.

Killis should also be carnivores so I hope they like the wormies.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Someday, when I'm not living in a rental and can get my dream tank that is 40 gallons, or 125 gallons, or maybe the size of the ocean, I'll be able to get one. . . _sighs and gazes dreamily off into the middle distance_
> 
> I'd love to see pictures of that one at your LFS, though!


Katie!! I got some pics of the MegaLotus!! Now before you look at this remember - these rummynoses are literally almost 3 inches long. Like they’re freaky big. Everything in that tank is freaky big.


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## BluCardi (Dec 29, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> Katie!! I got some pics of the MegaLotus!! Now before you look at this remember - these rummynoses are literally almost 3 inches long. Like they’re freaky big. Everything in that tank is freaky big.
> 
> View attachment 1039694


Lotus envy!!!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

BluCardi said:


> Lotus envy!!!


Me tooooo!!! Their tank made me get a red tiger lotus as, like, my second plant. It died dramatically but is trying to come back now.... never have I so wanted a plant to LIIIIIIIVEE!!! 😩


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## BluCardi (Dec 29, 2021)

Lotus, in my limited experience, will pause for a minute and then flourish. As soon as one leaf pokes it's head above the substrate and unfurls... 

There's no stopping it.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

BluCardi said:


> Lotus, in my limited experience, will pause for a minute and then flourish. As soon as one leaf pokes it's head above the substrate and unfurls...
> 
> There's no stopping it.


Well I’ve got three minuscule leaves now at the spot where the old one croaked. It never seemed to adapt to the tank. Hopefully now the tank is steadier and the lotus has done its thing underground and it will come up strong. I really hope so.


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## BluCardi (Dec 29, 2021)

Three you say?

A month from now it'll be touching the surface. Once that plant gets going it's pretty hard to stop.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I’ll let you know if it explodes. I’m hoping it will. Such a magnificent plant.

We have a weird situation now with the lampeyes in that they are insanely..... visible, in the tank. I mean that’s their whole purpose, I get it. But.... it’s a lot, haha.

Both my kid and I can’t quite adjust to how THERE they are. The tank with just the chilis really did look empty. These 6 lampeyes are ten times more visible than the 16 chilis were, back when we had that many. When they swim side by side, the lampeyes look electric and chilis look like someone flipped their light switches off. I don’t like the disbalance. I wonder if it’s because of the light spectrum I have...

I’m also wondering how far to reduce the water level to make sure killis don’t launch themselves out, as they’re known jumpers. Hope they don’t spook from my gardening efforts.

One thing conspicuous by its absence is the shrimplets.... but today at one point I was trying hard and couldn’t spot more than like 2 chilis in the entire world. So small things can definitely hide in my little water jungle. We will see.

Oh, a weird lampeye behavior I spotted... they definitely school/shoal together, and interact in small ways. A couple of times I saw two heading towards each other and giving each other a flash-quick little boop on the nose. Then one went up to a chili but as if it realized its mistake, backed off from a couple of cm away, as if going ‘sorry man, my bad, thought you were someone else!’ I will keep looking out for the nose boops to see if it’s their regular behavior.


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## BluCardi (Dec 29, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> I’ll let you know if it explodes. I’m hoping it will. Such a magnificent plant.
> 
> We have a weird situation now with the lampeyes in that they are insanely..... visible, in the tank. I mean that’s their whole purpose, I get it. But.... it’s a lot, haha.
> 
> ...


Definitely stunning to watch!

That nose boop is a sign of good stable aquarium. It sounds to me like the beginning of sparring between males, it should increase over time. As for the shrimplets they're almost impossible to spot. In a previous shrimp tanks I've found that at that stage, shrimplets will find a food source and stick to it. I had a cherry that didn't move from the safety of a partially open anubias leaf for about a week. Perhaps he did but every time I checked, it'd be there. It's tiny pincers moving being the only sign of life.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

BluCardi said:


> Definitely stunning to watch!
> 
> That nose boop is a sign of good stable aquarium. It sounds to me like the beginning of sparring between males, it should increase over time. As for the shrimplets they're almost impossible to spot. In a previous shrimp tanks I've found that at that stage, shrimplets will find a food source and stick to it. I had a cherry that didn't move from the safety of a partially open anubias leaf for about a week. Perhaps he did but every time I checked, it'd be there. It's tiny pincers moving being the only sign of life.


Oh that’s pretty fascinating!!! Does that also mean I have a mix of males and females? I’m totally unable to sex them at this stage, they all just look like little slivers of light. But one always hopes for a good mix. 

Ok I’ll keep hoping on the shrimp front hahah. It’s been about... 10 days now? Who knows.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I just realized I have chilis and killis. Hahah. I should have chosen my shrimp more strategically, then I could have had chilis, killis and rillis. 

😂😂


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> Katie!! I got some pics of the MegaLotus!! Now before you look at this remember - these rummynoses are literally almost 3 inches long. Like they’re freaky big. Everything in that tank is freaky big.
> 
> View attachment 1039693
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh! That's like something straight out of a scifi movie! That thing is amazing! I definitely want one. Buuuut not for my current tank. I will have to live vicariously through your tank. I'm definitely rooting for those tiny lotus leaves to turn into an alien monster!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Oh my gosh! That's like something straight out of a scifi movie! That thing is amazing! I definitely want one. Buuuut not for my current tank. I will have to live vicariously through your tank. I'm definitely rooting for those tiny lotus leaves to turn into an alien monster!


Isn’t it inspirational?!? They knew what they were doing when they made that display tank in the lfs lol


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> Isn’t it inspirational?!? They knew what they were doing when they made that display tank in the lfs lol


Very inspirational! I keep imagining my tiny (think smaller than your thumb) blue and red betta poking his little black face out between those gigantic leaves! Or sprawling inside of one with his bright red fins flowing out around him and the light turning him from royal blue to teal. In my mind it is ssooooo cute!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Very inspirational! I keep imagining my tiny (think smaller than your thumb) blue and red betta poking his little black face out between those gigantic leaves! Or sprawling inside of one with his bright red fins flowing out around him and the light turning him from royal blue to teal. In my mind it is ssooooo cute!


He will love his future fantasy upgrade ♥♥♥


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

Sadly, it will have to remain a fantasy for him. He's a rosetail, so 5 gallons is the max he is getting. The research I've done has convinced me that they do much better in 5 gallons and it is a lot easier to keep their fins healthy in a smaller tank. A lot of the experienced betta keepers I've followed recommend having just a 2.5 gallon tank for that tail type to keep them from stressing out and to make sure they aren't struggling to get around!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Sadly, it will have to remain a fantasy for him. He's a rosetail, so 5 gallons is the max he is getting. The research I've done has convinced me that they do much better in 5 gallons and it is a lot easier to keep their fins healthy in a smaller tank. A lot of the experienced betta keepers I've followed recommend having just a 2.5 gallon tank for that tail type to keep them from stressing out and to make sure they aren't struggling to get around!


Oh I forget about the betta tail issues! My mom had a couple but they were the moderately finned type. Well he can always enjoy it in the realm of fantasy ⭐


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Whole family together... chilis NEVER do that outside of feeding time, and even then there’s one weirdo poking around in the moss while everyone is eating. Lampeyes definitely seem more social.








Check out derpy dude who looks like he’s sitting atop the hygro leaf.








Husband’s reaction: 
‘They look like three pixels each, one of which is neon blue. Wait, is that their eyes or do they just have sparkly blue eyebrows?’ 

Cannot unsee sparkly blue eyebrows.








Pretty Boy is still my favorite boy. He seems completely unperturbed. Others are definitely more undercover since the new sort of water fleas arrived. 

They swim in very different ways. Chilis can be teleport-level fast when they decide but most of the time they move in controlled, elegant bursts, blinking their fins in unison and changing location seemingly without effort. Killis are hilarious by comparison because they swim by flapping their tail furiously from side to side and though they’re also very fast, they have no real sense of poise and instead seem like they’re trying way too hard. Maybe it’s just initial nerves.








‘Get out of my limno patch, please and thank you.’








I’m very curious to see natural killi behaviors. Chilis really became engaging when they stopped buzzing around and started living their life.... now the newcomers are buzzing around and a few of the old settlers are also buzzing around and I hope everyone will chill. 

Wonder what happens next week when I get the embers.

It’s an interesting conundrum, on the one hand we have aquariums so we could have fish... hence stocking level recommendations etc. but of course in nature you’d never have so many fish crammed in the same space, because they’d have all the space in the world to get away from each other.... 

I hope everyone will find their niche. So far the killis seem to have naturally taken the part the chilis don’t use - right side of the tank, and upper water portions. Chilis have always preferred the left and poking around the bottom, in between the wood and the plants. Although people say killifish are top/surface dwellers mine for now are mostly about mid-height..... wonder if they will gravitate towards the top as they mature.

Everyone seemed to adore the worms this morning. Worms are the best. Nothing like a nice worm breakfast. We’ll do bbs for dinner I think.


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## BluCardi (Dec 29, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> Oh that’s pretty fascinating!!! Does that also mean I have a mix of males and females? I’m totally unable to sex them at this stage, they all just look like little slivers of light. But one always hopes for a good mix.
> 
> Ok I’ll keep hoping on the shrimp front hahah. It’s been about... 10 days now? Who knows.


Yup.

There will be a mix of sexes in the stocking. In my experience, the "boops" will become more frequent. They'll start out testing each others might to work out the hierarchy. With some species of tetras I've kept, males fight to the death over the ideal spawning ground.

I had bleeding heart males that went at it for a day straight, until their fins were ripped to shreds and one died over night. I'm not sure how violent killis get but I recognize the head boop lol


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Love your killi peeking his head up over the leaf! Also, got quite the chuckle picturing them swimming.


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## TMJudd (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> I just realized I have chilis and killis. Hahah. I should have chosen my shrimp more strategically, then I could have had chilis, killis and rillis.
> 
> 😂😂


Wait a minute... you forgot about the 'Willi-Nilli's!!!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

TMJudd said:


> Wait a minute... you forgot about the 'Willi-Nilli's!!!


Yes but are those compatible with my water parameters?? 😂


Virtus said:


> Love your killi peeking his head up over the leaf! Also, got quite the chuckle picturing them swimming.


Yeah they shake their butts for all they’re worth, it’s hilarious. My kid always watches them while humming ‘shake ya boooooty, shake ya boooty....’ 

That was a fortuitous shot! They’re all blurry again because, well, water fleas. I’ll wait for a moment of meditation to snap a clear pic. 



BluCardi said:


> Yup.
> 
> There will be a mix of sexes in the stocking. In my experience, the "boops" will become more frequent. They'll start out testing each others might to work out the hierarchy. With some species of tetras I've kept, males fight to the death over the ideal spawning ground.
> 
> I had bleeding heart males that went at it for a day straight, until their fins were ripped to shreds and one died over night. I'm not sure how violent killis get but I recognize the head boop lol


Well that’s lowkey horrifying! 😳 I hope these guys are not that intense. They’re listed as ‘very peaceful’ but so is everything else, heh. 

I don’t mind so much if they have battles among themselves but I hope they won’t bother the chilis. I’d feel bad.


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## BluCardi (Dec 29, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> Well that’s lowkey horrifying! 😳 I hope these guys are not that intense. They’re listed as ‘very peaceful’ but so is everything else, heh.
> 
> I don’t mind so much if they have battles among themselves but I hope they won’t bother the chilis. I’d feel bad.


My apologies.

I didn't intend to imply that your killi fish would be violent. I was just reminiscing on my old setup. I believe Killies and rasboras lay/attach their eggs to plants which is a much more peaceful spawning experience.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

BluCardi said:


> My apologies.
> 
> I didn't intend to imply that your killi fish would be violent. I was just reminiscing on my old setup. I believe Killies and rasboras lay/attach their eggs to plants which is a much more peaceful spawning experience.


Hahahha don't worry about it, if carnage is about to happen I'd rather know about it  From everything I'm reading and watching about these killis tho, apparently they're not too bad. They do get territorial but shouldn't hurt anyone or anything, they aren't even as big jumpers as other killis and tend to hold to the center of the water column (checks out with my little dudes, they're not really top-dwellers so far), and I'm really hoping they might spawn for me eventually too, that would be way too cute!!!

Your tetras sound very hardcore. What did you do in those cases, separate them or let nature take its course? I appreciate that animals have their natural ways but I think I'd have a hard time watching...


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## BluCardi (Dec 29, 2021)

I don't have the scientific term but in my experience tetra violence comes down to the shape of the tetras. There are two types... 

"Tubular shape" Rummynose, Cardinal, Glowlight etc

"Diamond shape" Bleeding heart, Lemon, Phantom etc

Again, in my experience the diamond shape tetra are "violent" they fight over specific areas and in some cases you can spot the most dominant male. Below is an old vid that demonstrates and captures some of it.






Killi are the "tubular" shape so I'd expect sparring more so than violence. Oh and I couldn't do anything but let nature take it course. Once the spawning frenzy is over they usually go back to schooling.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

BluCardi said:


> I don't have the scientific term but in my experience tetra violence comes down to the shape of the tetras. There are two types...
> 
> "Tubular shape" Rummynose, Cardinal, Glowlight etc
> 
> ...


Hah that’s super interesting about the shape vs personality differences…. Wonder where embers would fit in? They’re a bit between the two shapes… and I’m getting some next week hahah.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

My embers are super peaceful, no issues between them or other fish.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> My embers are super peaceful, no issues between them or other fish.


That’s super good to hear! Are they also gentle with each other? Do you have them with any smaller fish or shrimp?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> That’s super good to hear! Are they also gentle with each other? Do you have them with any smaller fish or shrimp?


Right now they're with some black neons, a ton of cherry shrimp, a few amanos, a guppy (long story) and a few pea puffers and zero issues between any fish or between the embers themselves.


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## BluCardi (Dec 29, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> Hah that’s super interesting about the shape vs personality differences…. Wonder where embers would fit in? They’re a bit between the two shapes… and I’m getting some next week hahah.





Asteroid said:


> My embers are super peaceful, no issues between them or other fish.


I'd consider them "tubular" shape and when I kept them they were very, very peaceful.

When considering tetras I tend to gravitate towards those that can spawn in my water parameters. Spawning and sparring tetras are a visual indication that the tank is stable. Which is why the initial "nose boops" you described are such a good sign.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

BluCardi said:


> I don't have the scientific term but in my experience tetra violence comes down to the shape of the tetras. There are two types...
> 
> "Tubular shape" Rummynose, Cardinal, Glowlight etc
> 
> ...


Interesting. I've got 5 Bleeding Hearts and I've seen them spar with each other a few times but never saw them mess with anything else. Although I lost 6 neon tetras and 3 glass catfish (completely disappeared...) over about a 10 day period. I've been blaming an upside-down catfish but maybe it was these guys; more like bleeding heart-LESS am I right?!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Interesting. I've got 5 Bleeding Hearts and I've seen them spar with each other a few times but never saw them mess with anything else. Although I lost 6 neon tetras and 3 glass catfish (completely disappeared...) over about a 10 day period. I've been blaming an upside-down catfish but maybe it was these guys; more like bleeding heart-LESS am I right?!


It’s so sad when you not only lose fish but also throw suspicion on your other fish... back when my mom kept a tank for my kid, they got a crayfish against everyone’s better judgment... Lu adored it, until it started devouring the cories... and even though he knew it wasn’t the crayfish’s fault but ours for putting them together, he just didn’t like it so much any more.

Everything is very peaceful in DinkyTankLand today... the Pickle Jar has more nitrite and less ammonia which is good news I guess... Frank the massive Jar Snail is getting heftier and heftier on the flakes I’m tossing in there to keep the cycle going. 

We had visitors today, husband’s cousin who lives in Toronto was passing through on his way back from Mont Tremblant with his son... he sat right next to the aquarium and literally didn’t give it a single glance. I found that fascinating somehow, to him the thing simply had as much interest as my coffee table. I don’t think I’d be able to walk into a room with a tank and ignore it even if you paid me money to try. And not just since I’ve been keeping one, from birth probably. Not even his son looked at it. How are you ten and don’t want to see what lives in a tank?

Dinner was crushed Bug Bites and everyone got stuffed to an unreasonable degree. Everyone seems pretty content with life, lampeyes more fidgety still, chilis pretty chill. No shrimplets anywhere. Adult shrimp and snails all seem fine. 

Having come to the conclusion that my hygro is starving, and that I’ve been dosing the same amount of ferts since the early days when my plant mass was decidedly less massive, I’m trying to adjust the dose. Rotala Butterfly suggests 2.6ml of thrive daily, which should work out to.... one extra day of dosing I should be doing... I’ll give that a shot and see how it plays out over the next month. I can definitely afford it nitrate-wise.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I have made a startling discovery on my fertilization. I just wrote about it in the ferts thread but might as well leave a mark here...

Apparently one squirt/pump of Thrive is not 2 ml like THE BOTTLE SPECIFICALLY CLAIMS, but more like 0.3ml. 

That’s 6 times less.

I’ve been dosing 6 times less ferts than I thought.

This explains why I’ve never had algae lol. Everyone is fighting for every last scrap of nutrition. Nothing left over.

I’m going to increase my dosing of course, just have to work out how to do it gradually so I don’t overwhelm the system.

Also interesting to note that in spite of absolutely minimal dosing most of my plants were honestly still doing fine. 

Hrmmmmm.

I think I’ll try with 6ml per week total for a start. 

That’s still way under both EI and PPS Pro dosing (which I’m sloooowly starting to understand? Maybe?) but considering everyone has been starving for months I figured I should ease them into it.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So one of the lampeyes didn’t make it.

I’m going to retest the water in a minute but I doubt it is a water issue. Maybe I botched the acclimation process somehow as it was my first time doing it, or maybe it just didn’t handle the stress of the move. There was one that seemed a little slower than the rest even while they were in the bag... if it’s that one I probably don’t have a lot to worry about.

My water parameters are testing perfect and everyone else seems ok so far.... I guess I can just chuck it up to the adjustment period troubles? I always feel like I’ve failed them when they don’t make it. Like if I had done something better.

One of the shrimp was trying to drag it down through the wisteria but wasn’t managing to pull it through the foliage... it was sort of upright and moving back and forth as if he were using it as a hand puppet in a weird tiny dead fish theatre production. 

RIP tiny lampeye. Here’s hoping your brethren fare better.

How long do you guys usually drip acclimate for? I didn’t need to do it previously because lfs uses same tap water as me... but my parameters have changed since, my kh is twice lower than tap (though my gh is the same) and my ph is a few degrees lower... so I acclimated them for a few hours but maybe it could have been longer...? I used a pipette instead of a hose since I don’t really have one. Still I’d say it was a very gradual transition. Eh.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> So one of the lampeyes didn’t make it.
> 
> I’m going to retest the water in a minute but I doubt it is a water issue. Maybe I botched the acclimation process somehow as it was my first time doing it, or maybe it just didn’t handle the stress of the move. There was one that seemed a little slower than the rest even while they were in the bag... if it’s that one I probably don’t have a lot to worry about.
> 
> ...


It doesn't sound like anything you did but I understand the feeling. I don't drip acclimate fish at all. I'll float the bag for 30-45 minutes to temp acclimate then just plop and drop. If everyone else is acting normally I wouldn't be too concerned.


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## castiel (Jan 12, 2022)

LidijaPN said:


> So one of the lampeyes didn’t make it.
> 
> I’m going to retest the water in a minute but I doubt it is a water issue. Maybe I botched the acclimation process somehow as it was my first time doing it, or maybe it just didn’t handle the stress of the move. There was one that seemed a little slower than the rest even while they were in the bag... if it’s that one I probably don’t have a lot to worry about.
> 
> ...


From my understanding when drip acclimating most people suggest waiting until the water volume has at least doubled in the container so 50% of the water is the new tank water


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

castiel said:


> From my understanding when drip acclimating most people suggest waiting until the water volume has at least doubled in the container so 50% of the water is the new tank water


Yeah, I had read that too. I went even a little further than 50% tank water.

I wasn’t using a hose though so the rhythm was maybe a bit off. I was dropping in a few pipettes every half a minute or so.... 

It’s also weird because I got them.... on Wednesday morning? They went into the tank Wednesday afternoon... seemed happy and everything. Today is 3 days they’ve been there and I only see three swimming together, and I see two dead. Last one missing presumed dead at this stage because they don’t really hide like the chilis do. The remaining three look..... fine? The chilis, those I can see, look fine. The shrimp are as ever unconcerned. 

Hmmmm.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I am sad. They looked like they were doing so well.

Now I don’t know whether to give up on them or try buying more. Three feels like a sad number of them. Maybe I pick up a few more when I go get the embers.

Saaaaad.

This is the bad part of this hobby. Like I know it happens, but it always hits me with a wave of ‘why are we doing this? We are pulling these fish out of nature and we ship them around the world in boxes and we drop them from one set of parameters to another and we learn and experiment and mess around with things and so many of them die. Like here on the forum where we’re all trying our best so many die. Imagine in the fish stores, in the farms, in the aquariums of people who don’t care that much and just want some fishies for their kids.

Granted in nature tons of them would die randomly too. But it still weighs on me.

It’s still weird that three days they’d all be fine and then three keel over in a single night. And my chilis were all hovering in a corner together looking very much like the Children of The Corn, which they never normally do. Could they have done something? I don’t see any hostility while the lights are on.

No plants were moved this time, no substrate disturbed, no filter media disturbed. Nothing added or taken away in the last 3 days.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> It doesn't sound like anything you did but I understand the feeling. I don't drip acclimate fish at all. I'll float the bag for 30-45 minutes to temp acclimate then just plop and drop. If everyone else is acting normally I wouldn't be too concerned.


Are you getting your fish from a store on the same water supply as you? And you keep your tank at tap water levels? 

I’ve seen other people say drip acclimating isn’t necessary and can even be harmful if fish have traveled by post... but as mine only spend about 30 min in the bag I figure there’s no risk of ammonia build-up so I might as well ease them into the new tank parameters, since I am actively changing my parameters/ cutting my water with remineralized RO.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Well it’s just one of those days today. Lu just found a crispy shrimp on the floor. It was 3-4 meters from the tank, but I’m not sure if it walked that far or maybe I stepped on it and tracked it there on my slipper... I’m guessing it climbed up the emersed peace lily and hopped out. I moved the peace lily into the jar though it’s really getting crowded in there.... but I really don’t like the idea of shrimp being able to climb out. 

Sometimes I really feel like I’m nailing this whole thing and then other times it feels so precarious as to be nigh impossible.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Dang, sorry @LidijaPN. What is that saying about bad things come in threes. Fingers crossed you're in the clear now.

I'm having the same delimma with my glass catfish; we've only got two left but they seem to be doing well in another tank so I feel I should get 3-4 more. Although now we have a molly that was in that tank that has what I think is ich... Moved him over to a quarantine tank to treat.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Well it’s just one of those days today. Lu just found a crispy shrimp on the floor. It was 3-4 meters from the tank, but I’m not sure if it walked that far or maybe I stepped on it and tracked it there on my slipper... I’m guessing it climbed up the emersed peace lily and hopped out. I moved the peace lily into the jar though it’s really getting crowded in there.... but I really don’t like the idea of shrimp being able to climb out.
> 
> Sometimes I really feel like I’m nailing this whole thing and then other times it feels so precarious as to be nigh impossible.


Sorry to hear about the fish/shrimp troubles. In regards to the shrimp, if open-top are you leaving at least 1 - 1 1/4" inch difference between water surface and rim?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Dang, sorry @LidijaPN. What is that saying about bad things come in threes. Fingers crossed you're in the clear now.
> 
> I'm having the same delimma with my glass catfish; we've only got two left but they seem to be doing well in another tank so I feel I should get 3-4 more. Although now we have a molly that was in that tank that has what I think is ich... Moved him over to a quarantine tank to treat.


thanks. It's such a bummer. With plants I really don't feel too bad when they croak because it's like eh I learned something I can try again. With animals.... I know it's all hit and miss and they are fragile and some of them die and it's part of the hobby but I still really hate it.

It's hard to make up your mind when you start losing some - do you keep buying more to make up the numbers, or do you deal with the loss? I think I will try to get more if the three survive until I get the call from the LFS to pick up the embers. If none of them are there.... I'll let it go probably.

Not sure what to do about the shrimp issue either. I was reading through the archives and apparently people have most issues with amanos escaping.... my amanos seem pretty content to stay where they are. I'm trying to come up with some genius cover solution that lets me have emersed plants and also no shrimp runaways. I bet it was Lemon, too. She was always the swimmer and the climber.

I feel a little stuck at the moment. It's like a number of things are fighting each other.

- I want to put rocks into my Picklescape but it's completely taken over with the peace lily and monstera cuttings. I don't want to throw those away but I also can't think of a way to incorporate them... I was going to incorporate them into the main tank when I switch the lid but now I'm worried they would just lead to all my shrimp moving out.

- I want to change my lid from the black plastic one to either a glass one that folds over or a lidless solution with mounted light. If I get the glass lid that folds over I can keep my current light but I am still left over with the issue of emersed plants and what to do in the summer when I will need evaporative cooling to keep the tank at a reasonable temperature. If I go lidless I will have tons of evaporation and I need a new light that can mount on the side of the tank.

- I want to lower the water level a bit to help shrimp stay inside but the filter instructions implied water level must be pretty high (they said no less than 4 cm from the top, that's roughly how it is now). People have said the filter should work fine with a lower water level too (the intake is well lower than that, almost near the bottom) but I'm not sure. I'll definitely try to lower somewhat at next water change. (It's about 4cm lower than the rim right now. But maybe even lower would be even better). 

- Husband is trying to be supportive but he can't help sighing and complaining at 'how ridiculously complex and expensive and delicate it all is' about the tank so it's really hard to plan solutions when you know any additional expense or complication will be met with sighs and frowns.

- I want to take embers and more lampeyes but I worry they won't adapt again. Why is it all so precarious. I feel like whenever you're buying fish you should buy like 40% extra and count those as necessary collateral damage.

Hrunggggh.

In one shred of positive news, my val seems to be coming up nicely, the red as well as the green, and I have planted a few healthy sprigs of pearlweed at a few different points in the tank, hoping that will take off too. The ludwigia in the jar seems to be doing really well so I put the last few sprigs from the window into the jar as well. Hopefully they will develop and will do ok once I move them to the main tank. They are still not red tho.

I'm not happy today.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Sorry to hear about the fish/shrimp troubles. In regards to the shrimp, if open-top are you leaving at least 1 - 1 1/4" inch difference between water surface and rim?


I have an almost 2 inch difference and it's not even open top!! But there was a peace lily growing emersed from the filter baffle basket and I think that's what she used to climb out.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> I have an almost 2 inch difference and it's not even open top!! But there was a peace lily growing emersed from the filter baffle basket and I think that's what she used to climb out.


I guess that's possible. In 3 years with my current tank I only lost one nerite to the open-top. Nothing has jumped out with the 1" difference and there have easily been over 100 RCS in there. The nerites will just go up and over.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> I guess that's possible. In 3 years with my current tank I only lost one nerite to the open-top. Nothing has jumped out with the 1" difference and there have easily been over 100 RCS in there. The nerites will just go up and over.


yeah someone else said they lost a nerite the other day.... I guess it makes sense because they don't really care whether they're in the water or out, temporarily.

Before I put in the peace lily nobody had climbed out. Lemon (the shrimp I think has finally croaked) was the only one who would climb up under the filter into the baffle basket to fish around for food there.... but once she was there there was nowhere further to go and eventually she'd come down again.

Hmmm. I'm trying to come up with some way to still have an emersed plant but not have it serve as a springboard for curious shrimp.

In theory she could have also been holding on to one of the leaves I trimmed from the amazon sword and got flicked out that way.... but I doubt it as I'm pretty careful with those.

There is also a heater cable. But, like... don't think I can do much about that.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> ...In theory she could have also been holding on to one of the leaves I trimmed from the amazon sword and got flicked out that way.... but I doubt it as I'm pretty careful with those.


That's definitely a possibly, I've pulled shrimp out when removing plants. Accidents will happen to all of us. Last week I was using an 1/2" hose to do a water change and I didn't have a strainer on the end, wasn't paying attention and one of my Black Neons got sucked up into a bucket. Now this has happened before with my embers and shrimp, but he Black Neon was a little too big for the hose and he must have damaged something internally during the tight squeeze. 

I felt very bad, couldn't save him and he was the picture of health had him about 3 years.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> That's definitely a possibly, I've pulled shrimp out when removing plants. Accidents will happen to all of us. Last week I was using an 1/2" hose to do a water change and I didn't have a strainer on the end, wasn't paying attention and one of my Black Neons got sucked up into a bucket. Now this has happened before with my embers and shrimp, but he Black Neon was a little too big for the hose and he must have damaged something internally during the tight squeeze.
> 
> I felt very bad, couldn't save him and he was the picture of health had him about 3 years.


Poor baby. It's times like these you realize how tiny and fragile they are and how huge and clumsy we are by comparison 

Finally there are still zero shrimplets visible anywhere in my tank. That's pretty distressing too. What could have happened to all of them? At what stage would I give up hope completely that they're still hiding in there somewhere? Someone said a week until the first molt, that has long since passed..... it's been..... 13 days now? Not a peep of them. My heart tells me they didn't make it.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

Greetings. Read your journal from the beginning. I also have a 29 gal. Aqueon. I was going to buy the kit like you but decided to just get the tank and upgraded everything else. ( better hood with LEDs and filter and heater). Spent an extra 40 dollars more. I'm on day 3 now. Read your post about being not level and drained my tank on day 2. It was about 1/8 of an inch off. Going for fish Monday. Neons and Embers and Corys


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Poor baby. It's times like these you realize how tiny and fragile they are and how huge and clumsy we are by comparison
> 
> Finally there are still zero shrimplets visible anywhere in my tank. That's pretty distressing too. What could have happened to all of them? At what stage would I give up hope completely that they're still hiding in there somewhere? Someone said a week until the first molt, that has long since passed..... it's been..... 13 days now? Not a peep of them. My heart tells me they didn't make it.


13 days I would think you would see something. You have alot of hiding places right? What's the most aggressive fish in there. I know when i had mine with just the embers and black neons I had plenty of young, but with these puffers I don't see any. Only full size shrimp. I could see the puffers hunting, sticking their heads into the plants and different crevices of hardscape. The embers, neons don't do hunt like that.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> Greetings. Read your journal from the beginning. I also have a 29 gal. Aqueon. I was going to buy the kit like you but decided to just get the tank and upgraded everything else. ( better hood with LEDs and filter and heater). Spent an extra 40 dollars more. I'm on day 3 now. Read your post about being not level and drained my tank on day 2. It was about 1/8 of an inch off. Going for fish Monday. Neons and Embers and Corys


Enjoy the wild ride! Don't let my abject failures discourage you!!! I think I should have gotten individual pieces. I just never realized how complex it all was. Next time I'll know


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> 13 days I would think you would see something. You have alot of hiding places right? What's the most aggressive fish in there. I know when i had mine with just the embers and black neons I had plenty of young, but with these puffers I don't see any. Only full size shrimp. I could see the puffers hunting, sticking their heads into the plants and different crevices of hardscape. The embers, neons don't do hunt like that.


That's just the thing, ALL I have is chili rasbora!!! Well, now I have 3 remaining lampeyes but those are also tiny and not at all threatening. That's it! I have two amanos too. I feed everyone. I don't think the shrimplets got hunted down. I do have a TON of hiding spots, clumps of moss, pellia, crystalwort, driftwood, random stuff. But 13 days is too long not to see ANYONE. We saw one minuscule shrimplet on day one, swimming around randomly, and he probably got ate, lol. But I don't get what happened to the others.

I mean chilis can get into every crevice and they do sort of hunt, I mean they're always poking around the wood picking off rotifers etc. But I wouldn't peg them capable of eating ALL the shrimp.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Let’s see what else. Is the filter intake Shrimplet proof?


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

Forgot to post my pic. I used Activ-Flora for substrate. Bought a bunch of plants on driftwood. I'm lazy


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

Not my first rodeo. I had 3 tanks when I was younger. 50 yrs ago I had a 20, 10 and a 5 gal. Things have changed a lot. But I'm up for
it.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Let’s see what else. Is the filter intake Shrimplet proof?


Yep, fine sponge on the intake, don’t think they could go in there... again there were two berried shrimp that delivered a day from each other, that would be 30 shrimplets at least? One would hope

They both seemed to release their babies into the pellia bush which is on the far side from the filter anyway.

I did a water change one day after delivery, but it was nothing weird, just 20%, put it in slowly, temperature matched, same gh, maybe a tiny kh discrepancy because I’m bringing it slowly down.

Maybe I should have skipped the water change.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> Not my first rodeo. I had 3 tanks when I was younger. 50 yrs ago I had a 20, 10 and a 5 gal. Things have changed a lot. But I'm up for
> it.


Thankfully I’m just starting so at least I don’t have to adapt from old knowledge to new hahah. Just from being clueless entirely 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Here’s the ludwigia finally making some headway... I had it growing three different ways, to see what gives it the best odds.... in the main tank, in the jar, and floated in a tupperware container on the windowsill.... jar one is biggest by far so I moved all to the jar save two stalks that are still stalling out in the main tank. Maybe the fert increase helps them out. The ones in the jar aren’t reddening because the jar light is pretty bad... but they’re growing well, and I hope once they’re big enough I’ll have better luck with them in the main tank.








All the emersed plants are currently stuck in the jar as I want no more shrimp escapees. I left one tiny peace lily in the HoB itself but there really isn’t much room in there for her to thrive. Not sure how to resolve that situation. I wonder if they would mind it if I clipped their roots considerably. 

I set a timer on the main tank light, a mega cheap one but so far it’s working great... it always makes me jump when it cuts out tho 😅

I think I will try to skip getting a new light and a new top for the time being... I’ll see if I can get a decent cooling fan for the summer and attach it at the edge of the open flap on the existing cover.

I feel like you can pour endless money into a tank and still never feel satisfied. I looked at a lot of diy top options and all seem weirdly lacking and still kinda expensive.... so yeah. I wish I were more DIY-ey.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Thankfully I’m just starting so at least I don’t have to adapt from old knowledge to new hahah. Just from being clueless entirely 😂


You're in good company!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Sooo.... nothing died today! Yay! 

Jar ludwigia is getting bigger and bigger. I’m planning to move it over to the main tank once it touches the water surface and see if it will take off this time, since I’m dosing extra ferts (or, like, SOME ferts finally). I spotted a chuglet in the jar and evicted it back into the main tank, even though I don’t think they’d mess with the ludwigia at this size. But safe is safe.

Frank and Gary the pink ramshorns are spending a lot of time together so I’m hoping to have more ramshorn babies soon... I’ll have to nab one and move it to the Picklescape as there’s only a single ramshorn in there atm... I’ve also spotted what looks like a grayish ramshorn baby, not sure where that came from but I’m very into snail variety.

I’m pretty sure zero shrimplets survived, as it’s been full two weeks and none have showed up. I’m wondering what I can do to help possible future generations... apart from raising them as pickles, once the picklescape is ready.... I’m trying to think of types of plant cover I can propagate that will make it harder for chilis to hunt down shrimplets. Trick is chilis are SO SMALL. It’s hard to make a place a shrimp can go but a chili cannot. I guess moss clumps are my best bet. I also want to further spread my riccia, but it’s very difficult to negotiate with riccia. She goes where she wants.

In other news.... red tiger lotus plantlet is growing, I can see five tiny leaflets now. Curious to see how he will respond to the fert increase. Hygro is already responding well, putting out very large leaves (like twice bigger than before, it’s a little silly, it’s like it’s trying to turn into a helicopter) and maybe even getting some color as she’s reaching the light.... first val has touched surface. Indica is also starting to make bigger leaves. Wonder how tall that gets, and will it be tall enough to give it pink tips. 

Attached buces are putting out new leaves... the tiniest buce that I had attached to a branch with the hope of moving it over into the picklescape eventually has doubled in size, meaning its leaves are now a whopping 2 mm across each, as opposed to 1, which is where they started.

My ramshorns have pretty transparent shells, which probably means I need to be upping the gH a bit more.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Oh no, sorry to hear about all your deaths. I didn't even know RCS could crawl out, I've had one do a slight hop (like 1/2 a cm) into my filter compartment when I filled too high but never out of the tank. Now I'm scared...

But congrats on your tiger lily and Ludwigia taking off! That jar Luduwigia is looking really good, when mine got that big and happy, it just started popping branches by itself and making itself bushy. For your peace lily and monstera, could you transition them back to becoming terrestrial plants in a normal pot? They could still get the benefit of being fed water-changed tank water.

I've given up on my 1st shrimp brood. I definitely saw at least 1 berried female but between an inquisitive betta and a hydra-infested tank, I'm just going to set the bar way low. I can definitely see that the shrimp have learned that moss and bushy pearlweed are their friend so maybe once I smash the hydra, I can set my expectations higher. Hopefully once your pearlweed takes off, your future shrimp babies can be safe in that!

My wife used to be supportive but only mildly interested in the tank. When "we" chose our betta (I just folded to her choice tbh), she became just as obsessed with the tank. She probably knows more about betta care than me now. That could be an idea to get your husband become invested in the family tank, let him choose a fish or shrimp and name it and stuff


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Oh no, sorry to hear about all your deaths. I didn't even know RCS could crawl out, I've had one do a slight hop (like 1/2 a cm) into my filter compartment when I filled too high but never out of the tank. Now I'm scared...
> 
> But congrats on your tiger lily and Ludwigia taking off! That jar Luduwigia is looking really good, when mine got that big and happy, it just started popping branches by itself and making itself bushy. For your peace lily and monstera, could you transition them back to becoming terrestrial plants in a normal pot? They could still get the benefit of being fed water-changed tank water.
> 
> ...


Haha my hubs is a very specific creature 😂 I think he’s as interested as he’s physically capable of being (nearly not at all lol). He prefers the theoretical to the physical and would love to live in a minimalist pure white home with a few stylish accents and zero complications and a ton of tech. Instead he gets my science experiment of a home lol 😝 

Yeah I’m hoping when I have more ground cover... I’ve planted pearlweed in a bunch of different places so we will see....

I could make the plants terrestrial but I have zero interest in terrestrial plants lol. And very poor light etc etc. and no room... they might be able to be part of the tank in some McGuyver way, we’ll see. But I’d only keep them for tank enhancement purposes.

It’s such a huge learning process, this whole thing. I really feel like I’m at first year of Fish University.


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## pseudomugil (Aug 12, 2013)

One thing I've thought about doing is seeing if I could get emersed plants to root through the mesh lid I have on my tank. My 10 gallon used to be my brother's lizard tank so it came with a wire mesh lid. It makes getting into the tank a bit of a pain, mostly because I have my light balanced on cups on the mesh, but stops escapees and could be a decent medium to support plants with roots dangling into the tank. 

I'm really sorry to hear about all the trouble you've had with your tank recently. It's never easy when that happens. Here's to smooth sailing going forward!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

pseudomugil said:


> One thing I've thought about doing is seeing if I could get emersed plants to root through the mesh lid I have on my tank. My 10 gallon used to be my brother's lizard tank so it came with a wire mesh lid. It makes getting into the tank a bit of a pain, mostly because I have my light balanced on cups on the mesh, but stops escapees and could be a decent medium to support plants with roots dangling into the tank.
> 
> I'm really sorry to hear about all the trouble you've had with your tank recently. It's never easy when that happens. Here's to smooth sailing going forward!


Thanks! I'm learning it's the nature of the hobby really..... keeps you on your toes at least.... everyone is holding steady for now so I can hope that my blood sacrifice to the Fish Gods has been accepted. For now. 

Yeah a mesh lid definitely crossed my mind...... and growing emersed plants through it could be pretty genius.... but a bunch of the roots would still be exposed? Unless the water level was really really high? I'm wondering if some sort of mesh cup could be suspended through the lid? Hmmm...

If I were a DIY sort of person who has the tools and a workshop and everything (I WISH!!!) I'd try to craft a plexiglass cover that would have two halves and could open by sliding.... the non-sliding half would have a window covered with mesh, and perhaps a few round port holes, like plastic feeding rings, through which one could suspend mesh cups that would hold the emersed plants and keep their roots dipped in the water.... it would be easy to remove/ adjust/ clean/ clip roots and you'd have no runaways.... there would be a ventilation and evaporative cooling window if needed.... but sadly I have no real way of making this. I need handy friends.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Pickles pickles pickles....


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

How many "not another tank"s do you have now? 😂


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

Also of interest is what is your average pickles per day consumption? And has it suddenly upticked in recent weeks...lol


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> How many "not another tank"s do you have now? 😂


*blusters 
Why, none!! None at all! What makes you... Pshhh.... Preposterous!!!!!!

Ok realtalk, I'm less nuts than I seem. There is only the one pickle jar. Which in the interest of transparency, is not actually a pickle jar, it came from Ikea and is labeled a 'vase', I just like the sound of 'pickle jar' better. 

I do have a few half-liter soup jars on the windowsill which are just temporary experiments to see if I can grow out some moss in them using daylight.... so far they're growing a stunning array of different algae. Quite fun honestly as my tank has zero and I haven't seen any of the common types so far.


CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> Also of interest is what is your average pickles per day consumption? And has it suddenly upticked in recent weeks...lol


I don't actually eat pickles hahah. Well, very very rarely. My husband is a pickle fan and is just finishing a massive (about a gallon I think) jar of pickled turnips, but alas and alack, it is an ugly plastic jar and not one I would feel excited converting into another Picklescape. 

But the one picklescape I made does finally have its pickle rocks inside it. 

It's pretty exciting!!

I didn't attach the buce yet but I added the anubias, I think they'll deal ok with the last part of the cycle. 

The moss smoothie experiment worked far worse than I had hoped but it has, somewhat, tentatively, worked nonetheless. One rock is definitively showing tiny signs of moss growth. The other one I'm not sure yet. I hope I can go a while without disturbing the Picklescape now, and just let it pickle until it's fully cycled, the moss has grown out some, and the ludwigia is ready to move out because that's NOT where she belongs. Once all that is done I'll add the buce and then the Picklescape will have its final form. I do wonder what will become of the emersed plants, for now I'm keeping them in the Picklescape but they are really cramping its style. It's fine though because this is still a work in progress stage.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Look who has a whole new beautiful Pickle World to explore and has already laid their first batch of eggs......... Also known as 'TOUCH MY LUDWIGIA AND DIE'.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Is that dragon stone?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Is that dragon stone?


Yap. It had the most fun texture out of the available rocks in the lfs. It's three very small chunks. I'm hoping they will get overgrown with moss and look dramatic over time. 

It definitely needs a better light, this light is just sad.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Yap. It had the most fun texture out of the available rocks in the lfs. It's three very small chunks. I'm hoping they will get overgrown with moss and look dramatic over time.
> 
> It definitely needs a better light, this light is just sad.


I'm in L-O-V-E, love with dragon stone!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I'm in L-O-V-E, love with dragon stone!


lol the first time I saw it I was also like 'this is the stuff of magic and unicorns!!!!!' now I'm a bit jaded lol. Like ok it has holes in it, cool. 

It is a very nice dramatic look tho when you want to get a cool scape with like two pieces of stone.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so you know how some people are, like their dog dies and they immediately adopt a new puppy? ....welllll I may have gotten, like, 14 puppies. With fins, of course. Not actual dog puppies. That would be a little nuts. (No disrespect for anyone out there with 14 dogs lol) 

So yeah, I lost 3 fish so I bought 14..... I think I’m up to, like, three teaspoons of fish now. I got 9 ember tetras (but one looks a little wonky, not sure how well it will fare) and 5 more lampeyes so the remaining three aren’t lonesome. Big difference is, both killis and embers swim mid-column, which is, like, WEIRD. I mean if you spent 5 months with a tank you have to seriously stare at in order to see any life.... now they’re all just out there, strutting their stuff and it’s an adjustment for sure. I like the sneaky weirdos more I think.

Anyway my kid is very happy, he wanted embers. 

Anyway I wouldn’t be me if something weird and untoward didn’t happen....

So the embers had been in quarantine and they came out today so the guy called me. I wanted 8 originally but they had a slight discount if you take 3, 6 or 9 so I was like eh someone always croaks, let’s go with 9. 

Then I look over to the lampeye killi tank and there are just five little killi dudes left. (This is not a gender determination, they’re way too young to sex. Dudes of indeterminate genders, if you will). And the girl working is the same girl who sold me my killis and I’m telling her I lost some... and we come to the conclusion that her 5 and my 3 are meant to be together so I take those too. 

Anyway she’s netting them out and drops one on the tank top, and by the time we figured out what was happening it yeets itself off the side and into a crack between two tanks. 

Now she mounts a valiant rescue effort but it was a lost battle from the start... there was no way she could get him out in one piece, he was so tiny and fragile. Finally she raked him out along with a bunch of dust and crispy dead fish of ages past.... we grieved him for a moment and then she goes ‘oh look, there’s another one in the tank right next to it! It must have jumped over! Do you want it instead of the dead one?’ 

Now a smart person would take a good look at the ‘other killi from the neighboring tank who must have jumped over’. A smart person would perhaps stick with the killis that were clearly together in the killi tank. A smart person would try to get definitive ID beyond ‘yeah, looks a little weird but the eye is indeed blue, so.’ 

I, however, went ‘Sure, I’ll take him!’

So now I have 7 brigittae, 5 merah, one uropthalmoides, 9 embers, 7 lampeyes, AND WHATEVER THE HECK THIS IS


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I’m taking bets on what ‘The Fifth Lampeye’ ends up being.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

I can't help you with your killi ID but I want ember pics!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I can't help you with your killi ID but I want ember pics!


I’ll try to snap some when the lights come on! Right now they’re schooling tightly in the morning gloom, doing laps around the tank chasing down the microworms... and a smattering of other random guys is schooling with them too.

Current bets are on the ‘killi’ being some species of pseudomugil rainbowfish.... @EmotionalFescue called it in the ID thread and @pseudomugil confirmed as the main pseudomugil authority 😊 The bets are on which one it ends up being. I’d like luminosa.... but I guess we’ll see. I did also write to the shop to ask what they had in the tank next to the lampeyes. Maybe they will know. She was the last one tho so if the tank is not properly labeled they can’t confirm by looking at the other fish.... and their tanks are often a bit jumbled. They don’t normally stock many different rainbows tho so let’s see.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> I’m taking bets on what ‘The Fifth Lampeye’ ends up being
> 
> I’ll try to snap some when the lights come on! Right now they’re schooling tightly in the morning gloom, doing laps around the tank chasing down the microworms... and a smattering of other random guys is schooling with them too.


How big are they compared to the chilis and killis?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> How big are they compared to the chilis and killis?


Just a touch longer but they’re taller so they feel bigger? I’m not sure how far they are from their adult size... killis will be around inch and a bit as adults, chilis are just under an inch... I think embers will be same length or even a little shorter than killis but killis and chilis are both pencil thin and embers are more like almonds


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Your story at the LFS is why I watch them like a hawk. Something is definitely off with the one ember. How's that one doing?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Yeah I should definitely watch better... I went with it because they do sometimes have the same fish in a few tanks or one random one mixed in from the neighbor tank.... it honestly looked different even at a glance but she seemed so sure and I’m not the most assertive person so I thought ‘heck she works here she should know...’ lol.

The ember is off for sure but alive so far, schooling with the others, it ate microworms this morning... if it’s just a deformity I’ll love it as it is... I just hope it’s not any sort of illness? But it gives me the vibe of physical trauma or inborn deformity rather than sickness, no?

I did try to inspect them in the bag but it’s very hard beyond ‘yep they’re all fish and they’re all moving, for now’


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Yeah, I know it's hard sometimes to really check them out. And for a fish like an Ember yo can't really pick out each one you want without them asking you to please leave the store LOL.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

I have also learned the hard way to watch them, and I remember which employees are actual hobbyists and which ones are not, it makes a big difference. 

I walked away from 2 stores yesterday because they wouldn't sell me the fish I wanted, I really, really wanted each of the species, but they could not sell individual fish so I left.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Yeah, I know it's hard sometimes to really check them out. And for a fish like an Ember yo can't really pick out each one you want without them asking you to please leave the store LOL.


Yeah exactly hahah, she had struggle enough to bag any, much less like ‘give me THAT one!’ And there were like 50 in the tank... still if I had seen it was wonky in the bag I might have said something. But they handle them so rough I didn’t want her pouring them out again and sifting through them.... meh. 

Usually if I see someone off in the tank I don’t buy that day. They had clown killis and a few looked drunk. No thanks.

@Quagulator you mean they wouldn’t pick out one specific fish for you? Or they just don’t sell singles?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah exactly hahah, she had struggle enough to bag any, much less like ‘give me THAT one!’ And there were like 50 in the tank... still if I had seen it was wonky in the bag I might have said something. But they handle them so rough I didn’t want her pouring them out again and sifting through them.... meh.
> 
> Usually if I see someone off in the tank I don’t buy that day. They had clown killis and a few looked drunk. No thanks.
> 
> @Quagulator you mean they wouldn’t pick out one specific fish for you? Or they just don’t sell singles?


They wouldn't sell them in singles - over the years, I have found out to buy what you want / went to the store for, don't settle unless you have a home for the fish you settled for when you actually find what you wanted.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Just as a reference here's a pic of some of my embers. The first pic is when I first got them, the 2nd one is a few months later. You could see they got rounder more "almond" shape and colored up nicely.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Just as a reference here's a pic of some of my embers. The first pic is when I first got them, the 2nd one is a few months later. You could see they got rounder more "almond" shape and colored up nicely.


Oh wowow 🤩 mine are even paler than your first pic... when I first released them into the tank all immediately disappeared from view except for one spectacular dumbass that face-planted straight into the limno, obviously in plain sight, keeled at an odd angle and stood perfectly still. I was like well that one’s a goner.... but when I turned off the lights he crawled out of there and joined the rest.... so no. Just stupid.

Everyone else was legit invisible.

Some of mine look pretty plump and are almost at their final size I think... others are skinnier and smaller.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Embers are so pretty when they color up. I would love a decent size school of them but I'm afraid to do another nano-fish after my experience with the neons...


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Virtus said:


> Embers are so pretty when they color up. I would love a decent size school of them but I'm afraid to do another nano-fish after my experience with the neons...


Embers are more stable then Neons, I've never had issues with Embers but Neons yeah I've lost a few early on:


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Embers are more stable then Neons, I've never had issues with Embers but Neons yeah I've lost a few early on:


I'm not sure what happened to them; I had 6 just disappear and I'm thinking either my Bleeding Hearts or upside-down catfish got them. Moved the final 2 to a different tank and they both died within a week...

If I knew they wouldn't get hunted I'd do them in an instant.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Embers are so pretty when they color up. I would love a decent size school of them but I'm afraid to do another nano-fish after my experience with the neons...


Yeah my mom lost a ton of neons too, I don’t think they’re the sturdiest... maybe try in the tank where your glass cats are thriving? Don’t you have like seven tanks by now? 😂

For the moment I’m not blown away by them because they’re so transparent and you can see the silver glob of their guts a little too much... but they will be pretty when they relax a little, I’m sure. Also behavior-wise it’s fun to have something so active in the tank.... the school of 9 looks like 15 because a few of the others go like ‘uhh these guys know where they’re going, look at that sense of purpose!! We’d better follow!’ And then there’s this enthusiastic Tour de France going on in circles around the tank perimeter at mid-height.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah my mom lost a ton of neons too, I don’t think they’re the sturdiest... maybe try in the tank where your glass cats are thriving? Don’t you have like seven tanks by now? 😂


Have you been talking to my wife?! Still just 3 tanks; well 4 if you count our 2.5g hospital tank; well 5 if you count the 55g that's sitting empty in the garage that I need to list. But only 3 of them count dangit.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Have you been talking to my wife?! Still just 3 tanks; well 4 if you count our 2.5g hospital tank; well 5 if you count the 55g that's sitting empty in the garage that I need to list. But only 3 of them count dangit.


I’m sure there are a few more you’re in denial about so yeah, 7 😂 Surely ONE has room for some embers? They’re only wickle....

It’s totally possible your neons were not victimized. My mom once bought 8 and lost them all over about a week... there was nothing in the tank that could hurt them. Unless the bristlenose ate them. I think sometimes they just struggle adjusting...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So we have a winner - pseudomugil luminatus/paskai. I don’t get the two name thing, apparently they used to be called paskai and that’s what the lfs guy calls it but when I google it seems the current name is luminatus...

Hmm. I have to read up on the possibility of getting her a boyfriend.


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## pseudomugil (Aug 12, 2013)

LidijaPN said:


> So we have a winner - pseudomugil luminatus/paskai. I don’t get the two name thing, apparently they used to be called paskai and that’s what the lfs guy calls it but when I google it seems the current name is luminatus...
> 
> Hmm. I have to read up on the possibility of getting her a boyfriend.


Before it was described, P. luminatus was known as P. cf (Latin, con ferre, meaning compare to) paskai because it is fairly similar to P. paskai and P. gertrudae as well.

If you do get her a boyfriend you may want to get her a girlfriend too, the guys of pseudomugil species can be quite... amorous and can stress the gals out if that love isn't spread over more than one gal.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

I just googled those and THEY ARE SO PRETTY!!!! I definitely want one. And the embers. And the chilis. And the killis. Really, I think I've found the cure to MTS: stop looking at other people's super awesome tanks and super awesome fish! Now if only I could bring myself to give it up . . .


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

pseudomugil said:


> Before it was described, P. luminatus was known as P. cf (Latin, con ferre, meaning compare to) paskai because it is fairly similar to P. paskai and P. gertrudae as well.
> 
> If you do get her a boyfriend you may want to get her a girlfriend too, the guys of pseudomugil species can be quite... amorous and can stress the gals out if that love isn't spread over more than one gal.


Oh wait.... so the guy said she was paskai.... but I read most ‘paskai’ in the trade are actually luminatus, people just don’t know the difference........ soooooo...... which one is she? Are they that similar? Do they interbreed? Do I trust the guy who sold her to me as a ‘stray lampeye killi’ to have labeled her correctly as paskai?

Why do I always get these ‘it’s complicated’ sorts of fish 😂

OK but do they all stay small? If I get her a boyfriend and a girlfriend will that work for my 29g? I have 7 lampeyes, 13 chilis (of 3 different species le sigh) and 9 embers..... I really don’t want to overstock..... and I get traumatized by stories of people whose females literally died of harassment by the males.... like she’d better stay single if that’s their vibe....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> I just googled those and THEY ARE SO PRETTY!!!! I definitely want one. And the embers. And the chilis. And the killis. Really, I think I've found the cure to MTS: stop looking at other people's super awesome tanks and super awesome fish! Now if only I could bring myself to give it up . . .


Honestly when people say ‘rainbow fish’ I always think of the trifasciatas etc and those, while beautiful in other people’s tanks, don’t work for me and my micro world....

Anyway these are apparently not ‘true’ rainbows, they’re in a category generally called ‘blue eyes’, they’re Australian apparently? Which is hella cool.... and yes, ADORBZ! They have a tiny pair of fins just behind their head and they flap around wildly with those, looking like demented tinywing bee-fish.

I think I will have to get her a boyfriend and girlfriend.

Funny to think I’d have never considered the species if the weird fish store girl didn’t go ‘hey, you want this stray lampeye?’ 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so I’ve upped my fert regimen, like, a week ago. After understanding that Nilocg and I have VERY DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS of what ‘2ml’ means.

So a hilarious thing is happening to my plants.... they’re all becoming.... very big-headed, hahahah. As the new food is coming in they’re like OH WOW WE CAN MAKE LEAVES NOW! 🤩 And then you get this.









Look at how stringy and skinny that thing was before.... also if anyone knows what it is please tell me, it came stranded in a pothos I got as a gift.








So limno was totally bursting with life regardless, but see how hair-thin the frills are on the bottom part vs the top? It’s a blurry picture but a very startling difference irl.








Poor hygro who started the whole quest is going completely loopy, I moved this sprig next to a root tab and I also added more ferts to the water column so it went ballistic and made one set of insanely oversized leaves, like it’s trying to turn into a helicopter and fly out of the tank. I’m extremely curious to know what leaf size it will settle on. The other one in the corner is also making bigger leaves but not quite helicopter blade size. 








Rotala indica is making me laugh the most.... especially that it’s only this one single stem, who also lucked out with placement right next to a root tab... I wonder if others will follow suit with added ferts. 

I find that some plants are quick to respond to the changes and others much slower.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

That's a dramatic difference! So how many "squirts" of Thrive are you doing now and how often? Do you have the regular Thrive or C?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> That's a dramatic difference! So how many "squirts" of Thrive are you doing now and how often? Do you have the regular Thrive or C?


Right??? It’s nuts!!!

It’s regular Thrive, the one I bought on Day 1.... still a lot left lol, since I’ve been dosing it like LSD hahahh.

I pump it out into a small glass dish and then siphon it up into my 3ml syringe to be sure. Yesterday after water change I did 9 pumps, which worked out to just over 2.5 ml/ just under 3.... I’ll try to go with that random amount for a while. I do it twice a week, and it’s only been two times.... well, not even. Last Thursday I had done around 2 ml. 

Keep in mind this is still way under both PPS Pro and EI dosing..... EI suggests I think 18 ml per week, PPS Pro something like 16....? I might recheck that. But still. Crazy.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Nope, ballots have been recounted, apparently it’s pseudomugil furcata.... first shop guy tried to ID from my pic... then when I called the store on something unrelated I ask to confirm and someone else is like ‘uhh we haven’t had paskai in a long time..... but we do have furcata....’ so yeah probably furcata.

That’s a bit of a shame because I really like paskai and had hoped it was them. But I guess they go on the list of future dream fish...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

When I look at the tank like this on a peaceful night, when nobody is dying and there’s nothing to panic about, it’s hard to imagine it could ever cause any stress..... 

Everyone seems pretty content today, dinner was crushed micropellets, everyone seemed enthusiastic.... even the weirdly damaged ember... he looks like... like if you made him from clay and then pressed him onto a tabletop or something while the clay was still soft. His stomach is totally flat instead of curved. Other than that he shows no discomfort and he has eaten both meals so we’re just going to care for him as best we can and as long as we can.

Miss Amano is so big now, I wonder how much she will grow. Miss Pseudomugil is looking comfy and hunting rotifers or something off the driftwood.... I swear everyone loves to pick at that driftwood. Lesson for next tank - git moar driftwood. I’m still of two minds whether to get her a boyfriend and a girlfriend or not.... It wasn’t what I had planned, but it would probably make her life more fun, and they are a very fun looking species. I had really hoped she was a luminatus tho, darn.

The chilis are slowly coming out of hiding, I counted 9 at dinner, which is much better than three at breakfast.... though it is also a little hard to count in the melee that is New Dinnertime with 30 teeny tiny fish chasing down little bites. The embers are very enthusiastic and slightly manic feeders, more so than the chilis or killis or poor single mugil. They definitely bring a note of extra chaos to the proceedings. Baby lotus is coming up nicely, I keep thinking I want to get a photo to show you guys but he’s in the worst spot. I’ll be able to get at it when it lifts up a little more I guess.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Jararium is pickling nicely.








Full tank shot, haven’t in a while...








The Flat Ember, contrasted with a boring old normal ember.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Everyone seems to be slowly settling in, with almost no issue..... I did lose one ember but one out of nine is something I’m willing to live with. Also weirdly the embers do not touch my heart as much as the chilis do. Or even the new accidental mugil. 

The weird thing is, the ember that croaked was not the Flattened Clay Ember. He is still with us. I’m kinda fond of him because he’s _wrong_. I think I’ll call him Flatty. 

So I am coming to realizations. One is, I strongly prefer a certain sort of fish. The sort of fish I prefer is the fish that seems to do something with its life. Now I could be being super unfair to the embers and the lampeyes who perhaps just haven’t had time to settle in and develop behaviors.... but for now it strongly seems like all they do is ‘hey, everyone! Let’s go to the left now! Ok, we’ve arrived! Let’s go to the right now! Ok, everyone turn around themselves and look confused for a minute....... well done! Now let’s all go left again!!’

The chilis by comparison really seem to have a life. They prowl and stalk, they hunt invisible things, stake out territories, interact with each other, seem to prefer different areas and inspect things with interest.... The accidental mugil has that same type of curious, interesting behavior but she is bigger than the chilis and thus easier to spectate. I really like her. She’s fast becoming my fave fish. She really needs a name.

I am deeply torn between getting her some friends, even though they’re not my preferred mugil sort, or letting her stay alone and eventually getting a few of the mugils I want (either Gertrudae or Luminatus). Hmmmmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

A most unfamiliar thing is happening to me now I’m actually dosing ferts - I have nitrate! The API test comes out pretty red. Now from what I understand, the ferts type nitrate is not the same as organics type nitrate.... but how on earth is one to tell the difference?? Anyway I’m pretty sure my organics didn’t shoot up tenfold overnight, so. 

I don’t understand how it works if you dose full EI. Your nitrate reading would always be meaningless?? I’m dosing one third of AI and am getting over 40 nitrate reading.... hurmmmm.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I’m tracking ammonia to make sure everything is going well with the fish load doubled...... I had a small spike scare this morning but then realized the pre-filter sponge was almost choking the filter. I must have neglected to clean it last time... usually I wash it out every second water change but maybe I forgot. Anyway as soon as I cleaned it out it seemed to return to zero ammonia almost immediately. I’ll skip dinner tonight anyway, just in case. 

I haven’t seen Mr. Amano for a while. Miss Amano is always front and center.....things are getting very bushy tho so he might just be being subtle. I’ll throw in some spinach tomorrow and see if that draws him out.

I had a weird conversation with a friend today.... she has a betta in something that to me looks like less than a gallon, though it’s a proper ‘betta tank’ so IDK. But tiny. Glass pebbles on the bottom and one plastic plant. 

She was looking at pics of my tank and saying awwwww you have all these tiny useless fish!!! Why don’t you get one BIG fish that will be worth looking at?!? My father and grandfather always did the same thing, kept lots of stupid little fish instead of a nice big fish that would be fun to look at.

So I said well, to my incredibly tiny fish, my 29g is a whole world. They come from puddles and don’t have the desire to swim far and wide, so I can give them a good life in the tank, with a bunch of plants to hide in, a bunch of wood to hunt off of..... the bigger the fish, the more my modest tank would feel like a prison. 

To which she goes ‘well my betta is doing JUST fine in his tiny cube and is very beautiful!!! And I’m like yes he is but you would see a lot more interesting behaviors if you gave him a more interactive environment.... and she was like ‘How do you know?? That’s just conjecture, maybe he really likes the simplicity, maybe it’s meditative!’ Which, ok, was of course a little facetious, she knows she doesn’t have a special Marie Kondo Feng Shui fish. But it made me wonder how easy it is to cross that line between ‘this is how the fish will be happier’ and ‘but this is what I WANT.’ 

My kid absolutely wants a ‘bigger fish’. He has always dreamed of one big fish. Our whole tank experience has been me slowly trying to get him to see why none of his favorites would work in our tank.... It’s a hard balance to strike, for sure.


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## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> The chilis by comparison really seem to have a life. They prowl and stalk, they hunt invisible things, stake out territories, interact with each other, seem to prefer different areas and inspect things with interest.... The accidental mugil has that same type of curious, interesting behavior but she is bigger than the chilis and thus easier to spectate.


This is why I love love love my clown killies. Plus they're really hardy. 

I'm with you on the betta. They're interesting fish and I hate seeing them in tiny bowls with no plants. But what are you gonna do? It's true they're evolved to survive in some pretty harsh circumstances (like puddles) that help them survive rough dry season conditions. That's also why they are jumpers. But people really take liberties with that.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Bootsy said:


> This is why I love love love my clown killies. Plus they're really hardy.
> 
> I'm with you on the betta. They're interesting fish and I hate seeing them in tiny bowls with no plants. But what are you gonna do? It's true they're evolved to survive in some pretty harsh circumstances (like puddles) that help them survive rough dry season conditions. That's also why they are jumpers. But people really take liberties with that.


Yap yap. I hate when people equate ‘fish is hardy and can survive crap circumstances’ with ‘fish is happy to live in crap circumstances so I don’t have to bother.’ And then people selling them in tiny cups and advertising them as ‘can survive in anything !!!’ - just crap. I was at my lfs today and watched their wall of utterly beautiful and clearly depressed bettas lying listlessly at the bottoms of their water glasses. I hate it.


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## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

I know. I'm always about _this close _to taking one home even though I know impulse buying like that is the road to ruin.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Bootsy said:


> I know. I'm always about _this close _to taking one home even though I know impulse buying like that is the road to ruin.


Hahaha yeah, the rescue buy. I do it sometimes with, like, the random crooked small fish that nobody wanted from a big group.... I’d love to start a betta rescue but don’t have the infrastructure. I used to do it with stray cats and dogs as a kid but at one point you realize you have to let it go. 

At least I can give my friend crap for keeping her fish in a tiny tank hahah. Petty satisfaction.


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## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> At least I can give my friend crap for keeping her fish in a tiny tank hahah. Petty satisfaction.


Well there is that.

Also, I meant to say that Amanos can be pretty cryptic. I thought I had lost them all five of mine for a while. Then I saw a couple. Then three, four and one day - five!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Bootsy said:


> Well there is that.
> 
> Also, I meant to say that Amanos can be pretty cryptic. I thought I had lost them all five of mine for a while. Then I saw a couple. Then three, four and one day - five!


That makes me very happy because Mr. Amano has been AWOL for a while. The two of them are the biggest things in the tank so I wouldn’t want them croaking and messing up the water... I have to confess he doesn’t have the amount of personality Miss Amano has so I’m not like super attached to him but I’d still like him to be ok. 

Are your clown killis a pair or a group, how do they work? They’re also super adorable fish! I considered them when I was getting my lampeyes but the tank was sus, a few looked drunk and one was already getting eaten by the shrimp so I was like yeah maybe not.


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## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

I bought a small group of 10 juvies. I had two losses that I've never figured out. Anyway, it turned out that the survivors are six males and two females - I couldn't sex them because they were so small. They've spawned twice but only one baby has made it. No problems so far with the girls being too harassed, but I'd still like to get more females or, like I said move the two girls and one of the males into a tank of their own.

They're pretty and interesting to watch. They also eat anything and everything as long as it's small enough.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok, so the Mugil Saga.

I cannot let this go so I have spent an entirely unreasonable amount of time on trying to figure out what species of mugil my accidental mugil girl is.

There are loads of them (I have greatly expanded my knowledge on the whole genus, lol, from zero where it sat before I got a specimen by accident), but fortuitously the lfs I got her from only stocks a handful on and off.... so most of the very exotic guesses were struck off the list immediately.

Their bid was, as you may recall, dear reader who have been following this inconsequential detective novel, Furcata. Simply because Furcata is the only Pseudomugil they are carrying at this instant. I had mixed feelings about this as I find Furcata a little.... dumb looking? I feel bad. But I do. Another issue is they are a larger species, and can grow two inches and a bit over... which in my tiny world is worryingly giant proportions. Our Resident Giant position is already filled by Miss Amano.

Anyway I trundled off to the Furcata tank and thank heavens they look nothing like my girl. After a bit more brainstorming the lfs guy says ‘oh we have some Paskai in the show tank, maybe she’s a stray Paskai?’ Which I honestly think they are confused on because what he showed me is the orange/red blue guys the internet labels Luminatus. So more confusion there.... and for sure, definitely she looks more like them than like the Furcatas. But the color is wrong, and she has black lines that Paskai/Luminatus really don’t have even in trace amounts.... but Gertrudae do 

So currently the guess is Gertrudae. It fits with her look, they did stock them a while back and ran out, she could have been overlooked and left alone in that tank. So.... yay!! Adult Gertrudae are wicked cute and my kid is very excited. We put ourselves on a waiting list to get a few more when they come in again.

On the other tank residents, not much to report... Flatty is still doing good in spite of his lot in life. Chilis are still very stressed and confused, I can almost see them muttering about how the neighborhood is going to the dogs with all sort of riff-raff swimming about willy-nilly. The lampeyes have chilled out and are no longer schooling, typical. They’re still impossible to gender, I’m curious about the mix. The cherries are all constantly in the open since the new crowd arrived and the accidental mugil has picked her favorite corner of the tank and is poking around there being adorable. I definitely like her best now, not sure if it’s the flappy bunny ear fins, the easygoing personality, or the fact that she is an individual one single thing so it’s easier to track her and feel attachment.

Plants are still loving the fert boost. I measured nitrate yesterday after dosing and it was looking high but today already much has been slurped up and it’s between 10 and 20.... which makes me very happy. I was a bit queasy having it over 40.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Bootsy said:


> I bought a small group of 10 juvies. I had two losses that I've never figured out. Anyway, it turned out that the survivors are six males and two females - I couldn't sex them because they were so small. They've spawned twice but only one baby has made it. No problems so far with the girls being too harassed, but I'd still like to get more females or, like I said move the two girls and one of the males into a tank of their own.
> 
> They're pretty and interesting to watch. They also eat anything and everything as long as it's small enough.


 Oh yeah chilis are piglets too, it’s endearing 😂 they’d happily eat me if I ground myself to powder. 

The sexing thing really frustrates me.... everyone is like ‘oh make sure you get twice as many females!!’ ‘Oh ok, are they sexable as juveniles?’ ‘Not even a little, lolol!’ Like what am I supposed to do with that??? 

It’s great that they get on at least! It would be cool if you could get a couple of couples in a breeding tank... do they pair up, or just do it with whoever is available? Lol


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

On the jar front...... (it’s a little ridiculous how much news my single tank and absolutely-not-tank jar produce in a day... hahah I think I have a problem. I’m sure the fish store people have an internal name for me, like ‘oh the blue haired crazy fish lady dropped by again’).

But anyway, on to jar news!! And exciting news it is too!!









A brand new color mix! Ammonia is out and nitrates are in! Yeah baby we’re cyclin’!! ⭐

I might want to try adding some crystalwort to the Picklescape once I get it a better light.

The ludwigia there is almost almost almost red now! Ok, in all honesty I guess ‘red’ is a strong word for that coloration there but it isn’t entirely green, is it? 🤩









I am now consumed by thoughts of spotted blue eyes. My girl:








Grownups:


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

I'm cheering for Flatty to have a long and fulfilling life!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I'm cheering for Flatty to have a long and fulfilling life!


Me too!!! I had a _wrong rasbora _before, tiny and with clear swim bladder issues... he was doing ok until that weirdness that happened and I lost him and two more. 

I’m really happy Flatty made it through the first few days while another regular looking ember didn’t.... I took it as a sign that he’s not so weak. I always watch at feeding time to see if he’s eating but honestly his behavior is no different from the rest.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I think Accidental Mugil i.e. The Fifth Lampeye deserves a name and she shall be called Daisy. After a beautiful blonde and blue eyed firecracker of a girl I knew in Toronto. They’ve got the same color scheme.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Tank woes again, maybe? I don’t even know any more. 

It all feels very precarious.

So I’m watching ammonia like a hawk still because the new embers, lampeyes and mugil more than doubled the bioload... beside that one blip from the dirty pre-filter, it’s been holding steady.... tonight I come home and one ember is in a bad way. I lost one the first night but others were going well. This one is tilting diagonally, tail sinks back and head tilts up, and sort of.... panting? But not at the water surface, just, like, randomly somewhere. 

I got worried it was ammonia and tested and test came out pretty darn yellow... but you know when you’re paranoid and keep going ‘is that a smidge of green? Maybe? I looked under different lights and literally couldn’t decide... so I dosed with Prime just in case because it’s night and I couldn’t start a water change right there. I’ll definitely do one in the morning whatever happens. 

Anyway everyone else seemed ok, from the fish I could see at least. I skipped the dinner feed again to avoid making it worse, if there even is anything happening... we will see how things seem in the morning. I have never seen symptoms from different sorts of things on fish so I don’t know what I’m looking at..... 

Anyway in happy news, I watched a dance-off today between two of my lampeyes! It was the cutest. Basically whoever shakes their butt the hardest wins. I have 3 boys and 3 girls from what I could tell, and couldn’t chase down the 7th one. Hope they’re still doing well.

That’s definitely a challenge with a heavily planted tank... when you wanna do a random headcount, it’s very challenging. Embers are countable because they stay mid-column... Lampeyes do a surprising amount of poking about around the bottom for a supposed top-tier fish. And chilis at this stage have literally turned into Morlocks, hiding in caves and skulking along the ground between the stems, doing their weird Children of The Corn hovering without moving a single fin. It’s spooky, like someone put them on pause.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I don’t want to wake up to missing fish tomorrow.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

I hope you didn't wake up to any deaths! If only one fish is acting off, it sounds like it shouldn't be an issue with the whole tank. And that seems a pretty extreme reaction for a doubtful _maybe _tinge of green to the ammonia test in a tank that has been perfectly ammonia free for as long as that particular fish has been there. My guess is that whatever is going on with that fish, it is not your tank husbandry.

Honestly, my initial thought (without seeing the fish, and never having had embers, of course, so take it with a couple large grains of salt) was that particular fish had been eating too much and is constipated. I don't know if that is common in embers, but if that were a betta, I'd tell you to skip a couple of meals and then give him a meal of frozen daphnia and see how he does. I don't know if that is the right advice for an ember though.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> I hope you didn't wake up to any deaths! If only one fish is acting off, it sounds like it shouldn't be an issue with the whole tank. And that seems a pretty extreme reaction for a doubtful _maybe _tinge of green to the ammonia test in a tank that has been perfectly ammonia free for as long as that particular fish has been there. My guess is that whatever is going on with that fish, it is not your tank husbandry.
> 
> Honestly, my initial thought (without seeing the fish, and never having had embers, of course, so take it with a couple large grains of salt) was that particular fish had been eating too much and is constipated. I don't know if that is common in embers, but if that were a betta, I'd tell you to skip a couple of meals and then give him a meal of frozen daphnia and see how he does. I don't know if that is the right advice for an ember though.


Overeating is definitely something I’ve considered.... I feed the tank exactly the same amount now that I have 30 fish as I did when I had 13.... but some of them are definitely more greedy and stuff their faces like there’s no tomorrow. 

Mornings I only feed microworms and I think they cannot really overeat those... evenings I rotate. Hikari micropellets, algae wafer, frozen bbs, freeze dried bloodworms, Bug Bites (all crushed to powder and soaked in water, in case it expands later and overfills them...)

When I lost my 3 lampeyes from the first batch, after they had been doing great for 4 days, I had fed the tank crushed bug bites... I literally think they liked them so much they ate themselves to death. Nothing else had happened in the tank, it’s weird to have all alive for 4 days and then lose 3 in a single night. I’m pretty convinced it was the bug bites. (Not that there’s anything wrong with Bug Bites as a food.... chilis eat them with zero issue.... just these fish were small and new and still stressed from the move and maybe underfed previously for transport and the Bug Bites were too much. Maybe I hadn’t soaked them long enough. Having tiny fish really carries its own unique issues)

Best I can tell this morning, ember didn’t make it but everyone else is still there. I’m doing water change today so will be testing everything again anyway but yeah, I doubt it was ammonia. 

My thoughts on the tank are complicating.... getting more fish sure made it more fun to watch because the new guys (primarily the lampeyes and Daisy Mugil, embers are still boring, sorry embers) are truly fascinating to watch. I can’t wait to see more fin dances etc, maybe proper courting. I’m thinking of making some spawning mops even. You never know!! 

On the other hand the chilis have literally been driven underground. I barely spot them, they don’t even come out to feed with the others but hide down between the stems and wait for things to fall.... I don’t know if they will adapt ir stay like this but with the exception of Pretty Boy, they were really pretty shy even when they were all alone in there.

My one plan for Chili Restitution is to provide some surface cover. I need to delve into surface plants again. I did NOT enjoy duckweed at all, I want something a little cooler and more interesting and less prone to leaving masses of rotting roots randomly around the tank. Open to suggestions. I have to be careful tho because my light is not amazing and I don’t want to light-starve the whole tank... I’ve already made a sort of tube trap for them so might try and see how they work out. Maybe chilis feel more inclined to come up. It probably also doesn’t help them that the tank is viewable from both long sides... but I can’t help them there. 

On the opposite side, hornwort is finally shooting up like it should and both vals are reaching up pretty fast too.... green val who arrived earlier already has a few strands longer than tank depth. Red val hasn’t made it there yet but is striving. Between those 3 and the red lotus trying to reinvent itself, cover should definitely improve in the mid-future. 

I’m trying to tally up my fish survival ratio and it’s a little rough.

1. Got - 12 ‘chili rasbora’ (actually boraras merah) - survived adaptation - 5. Probably my fault somehow, at that stage.
2. Got - 1 green phantom plec - survived adaptation - 0. I do believe he wasn’t well when he came. He saved us by dying because I’ve seen them adultish and they get WAY TOO BIG, the dude lied to us. 
3. Got - 12 chili rasbora - for real this time - survived adaptation - 8. My fault? Maybe. A little questionable. 
4. Got - 6 yellow cherry shrimp - survived adaptation - all 6. Yayyay!! Miss Lemon decided to go explore the Carpet World via emersed plant later, but that doesn’t count. 
5. Got - 2 amano shrimp - survived adaptation - 2. Another yayyay! I can’t quite tell if I’m seeing Mr. Amano around the tank or not but honestly he’s probably in there somewhere. They definitely adapted fine.
6. Got - 6 Norman’s Lampeye Killifish - survived adaptation - 3. The Bug Bites Incident? I’m still blaming the fish store a bit. Water was perfect.
7. Got - 4 more Norman’s Lampeyes - survived adaptation - 3, I think. Maybe I’m just not counting right but I see 6 in the tank in total - old 3 and new 3 I guess.
8. Got - 9 ember tetras - survived adaptation - 7, so far. At this stage the aquarium is pretty steady so I really don’t know what to attribute the deaths to, except just ‘weak fish from lfs’. And this is the BEST lfs, the one that quarantines!! Sigh. 
9. Got - one accidental mugil - survived adaptation - yes, so far. I will be desperately sad if something happens to Daisy.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

So you have 30 fish right now in your 29?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> So you have 30 fish right now in your 29?


27, IF everyone I think is alive is actually alive, which is, like, never a sure thing. 

I had 13 chilis before the new guys came but they went deep undercover, they don’t even come up to eat... they wait for things to fall low and hunt them between the stalks. As tank is getting quite bushy there’s no way to count them, being SO small and having the capacity to hover in place perfectly still. So I’m just taking it on faith they’re there because I see one once in a while and they were holding very steady before. 

I have 6 visible lampeyes and 7 embers.

And the one single Pseudomugil Hopefully Gertrudae. 

That’s everyone. 5 cherries, 2 amanos, and buncha snails.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Your pushing the limits IMO. It's also a fairly new tank right? What filter are you running and how much water do you change?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Your pushing the limits IMO. It's also a fairly new tank right? What filter are you running and how much water do you change?


Oh you think? Aquadvisor etc says it’s like 70% stocked....

It’s a fluval C3, I have a prefilter and an extra basket of matrix under the outflow... have been changing 20-25% weekly so far. Tank is at this point 5 months old.

We certainly aren’t thinking of stocking more... I took a few extra of the last two batches sort of knowing a few will probably not make it.

You think it’s too much? It’s moderately planted but moving towards heavily planted, barely any substrate is plant free..

I know the ‘inch per fish’ thing isn’t really a thing but most of the fish are like 3/4 of an inch at adult size. Only the lampeyes might go to inch and a bit, and the mugil.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Oh you think? Aquadvisor etc says it’s like 70% stocked....
> 
> It’s a fluval C3, I have a prefilter and an extra basket of matrix under the outflow... have been changing 20-25% weekly so far. Tank is at this point 5 months old.
> 
> ...


Everything is relative. There is no perfect fish stocking adviser, that's BS in my opinion. Your HOB does not house that much media compared to a canister. 

You should be changing more water each week and go to a good size canister if you want to keep your tank that stocked. Your feeding frozen food, how often how much? It's very common for people new to this to feed too much. Frozen food makes a mess and spreads organics all over the place. Don't care what your test kits say, they are not that precise.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Everything is relative. There is no perfect fish stocking adviser, that's BS in my opinion. Your HOB does not house that much media compared to a canister.
> 
> You should be changing more water each week and go to a good size canister if you want to keep your tank that stocked. Your feeding frozen food, how often how much? It's very common for people new to this to feed too much. Frozen food makes a mess and spreads organics all over the place. Don't care what your test kits say, they are not that precise.


Fair.... I don’t really feed frozen tho, I feed live microworms each morning, one paintbrush swipe, which I get is also relative but for reference, I was feeding the same when it was just the 13 chilis and everything is gone in a minute. 

Evenings I usually put in a tiny amount of hikari micropellet (literally, like, 10 micropellets crushed to powder), or a bit of something else crushed and maybe once a week frozen bbs, but again, it’s one quarter of a Hikari bbs cube, so like... a 4mm square cube? Is it too much? I fed the same when it was 13 chilis... I didn’t increase any feeding sizes because everyone still seems to get some food. It’s just gone even faster now.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Fair.... I don’t really feed frozen tho, I feed live microworms each morning, one paintbrush swipe, which I get is also relative but for reference, I was feeding the same when it was just the 13 chilis and everything is gone in a minute.
> 
> Evenings I usually put in a tiny amount of hikari micropellet (literally, like, 10 micropellets crushed to powder), or a bit of something else crushed and maybe once a week frozen bbs, but again, it’s one quarter of a Hikari bbs cube, so like... a 4mm square cube? Is it too much? I fed the same when it was 13 chilis... I didn’t increase any feeding sizes because everyone still seems to get some food. It’s just gone even faster now.


It is what it is, you have alot of fish, hob, whether it's live or frozen adds to it. Also don't think your "clean up" crew gets a pass from the bio-load, they poop too. Most fish don't need live/frozen food everyday. If they are eating flake/pellet than a few times a week at moss for live/frozen. 

I would definitely increase water changes to 40-50% or do semi-weekly 25% to keep the water cleaner. You could also add some carbon (if your not currently) to the filter to remove any possible toxins.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> It is what it is, you have alot of fish, hob, whether it's live or frozen adds to it. Also don't think your "clean up" crew gets a pass from the bio-load, they poop too. Most fish don't need live/frozen food everyday. If they are eating flake/pellet than a few times a week at moss for live/frozen.
> 
> I would definitely increase water changes to 40-50% or do semi-weekly 25% to keep the water cleaner. You could also add some carbon (if your not currently) to the filter to remove any possible toxins.


I’ll give that a shot!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Jar ludwigia reddening... it’s so exciting to see!
























My random window experiments are growing beautiful algae... I find them quite mesmerizing. 

My hornwort and limno are racing who breaks surface first and green val is laughing at them like ‘I’m already there, losers’ 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I think I’ve figured out sexing the lampeyes!! I have 4 girls and two boys, best as I can tell. The tail shapes are subtly distinct.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So buces are apparently the most uppity of all plants. They have ideas.

One I’ve glued to my rock, hoping he’ll proceed to attach his roots there.... instead he decided to stretch them out octopus-style and attach to an..... indica stem??? Your love is doomed to fail, man, she’ll drop you as soon as I have to trim her....

Other buce was supposed to float while the jar gets ready.... well he took the liberty of sinking and randomly attaching to my other rock. Guess he lives there now.

Daisy is the cutest.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Can’t stop won’t stop posting updates lol.

In happy news, apparently I do still have all 4 lampeyes from the second batch. So all I lost from the last purchase is the two embers. So far.

That means there are 7 lampeyes in total! I would sooooo love to see some lampeye babies at some point. They are extremely cute fish.

Speaking of extremely cute, Frank the second largest ramshorn has grown so much since he came!! Well they’re all growing beautifully. I have some brown ramshorn babies, want to pop them into the jararium to breed. There’s already a pink guy in there who snuck in and is laying eggs like there’s no tomorrow.

















Check out this one month tank comparison shot ♥ I try to take similar pics sorta regularly so I can maybe put together a little progress animation at some stage...

So this is March 1








This is April 1. 








You can sort of see who the overachievers are hahah.

This is my beautiful senior citizen shrimp... I think she came to me as an old lady already, she is much bigger than everyone else and kinda slow and has never been saddled. Her color is also deeper than the others, almost a hint of orange irl. I really like her.









It fascinates me how every single fish I have has a unique swimming style. I want to try to get my kid to do a couple of short-short videos demonstrating each fish’s swimming technique... he’s great at imitating them.


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## Jekk (Jan 11, 2022)

I very much enjoy reading your journal LidijaPN! I think your writing style coupled with your love for your flora and fauna makes for enjoyable reading.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Wow, Daisy looks so adorable! I looked up the Australian blue eyes (Pseudomugil) and they are definitely on my wishlist for the future tank. Glad to hear the new fertilisation regime is giving such good results. Hopefully algae won't follow!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So that was a horrifying moment.

One of my lampeyes snuck into my filter dampening Matrix basket. I find it quite irritating how much of my aquarium life wants to dig around in that basket. Anyway she ended up sort of trapped, because even though the filter outflow is further dampened by coarse sponge, it’s still strong when you’re in the basket and you’re tiny.... everyone struggles to get out. 

So to help her I plugged out the filter for a moment and when I plugged it back in it didn’t react. Like not even a little. 

Plugging and unplugging didn’t do anything, and neither did jiggling the cables... I got seriously scared. I really don’t want to be buying another filter right now, and especially not on a Sunday afternoon....

Anyway as I was racking my brain for a wise course of action, husband goes ‘what if you smacked it?’ by way of a facetious, joke solution. Having nothing to lose, I did indeed smack the impeller casing and the filter sputtered into life. 

Anyway, there, this was my HoB filter repair tutorial.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

It’s not broken until you’ve hit it and it’s still not working!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> It’s not broken until you’ve hit it and it’s still not working!


This is the lesson I learned today!

I’m definitely getting a sponge filter to have as backup. Also dug up/got handed a bunch of good advice about filter maintenance so I’ll be working through that during next water change, god help me.

In other news, I am now obsessed with the idea of breeding something in my tank, which is bad because none of the breeding stuff sounds simple. But we should all have hopes and dreams, right?

The red tiger lotus is cooking up some very nice leaves in the back where I just CAN’T FOR THE LIFE OF ME GET PICS but I’m not bitter, no I’m not, because he is growing and I am proud of him.

I’m weirdly excited about having a brown ramshorn. I’m excited about all my ramshorns. Hope they will breed a lot. Part of me wants to pluck him out right now and drop him in the jar for better observation of propagation, but the much bigger part of me does not want wet elbows right now. I’m sure he’ll pop up at some point during a water change and I’ll nab him.

The embers are still boring, bless their hearts, except for Bob, who is a jerk. Now I haven’t heard of a jerk ember before but there you have it. Also I cannot for the life of me sex embers, so Bob could absolutely be a girl. Still calling them Bob since Bob sounds like a good name for a jerk fish.

Anyway Bob chases people. Someone will just be swimming by him and Bob will chase them away from ‘his’ part of the tank, which is, essentially, wherever he is at the time. Other embers also aren’t schooling together any more, just aimlessly floating here and there like the boring fish that they are. Bob does this too, except if someone crosses his path they get chased. He’s still an ember tho, so it’s not like he goes far or ever hurts anyone. He’s a jerk, not an animal.

The lampeyes are both the prettiest and the most fun to observe, in terms of interaction. Daisy Mugil is still my obsession but she has no one to interact with… Chilis are still my favorite babies and I hope I cah draw them out of hiding by some frogbit, someone is selling off some cheap and what the heck I’ll give it a go. It can’t be as annoying as the duckweed.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> I’m definitely getting a sponge filter to have as backup.


Keep in mind that the sponge filter only works as a backup if it's already full of happy bacteria. So you'll either need to run it in the 29, the jar, or in some other tank you don't have yet that the that hubs cannot know about.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Keep in mind that the sponge filter only works as a backup if it's already full of happy bacteria. So you'll either need to run it in the 29, the jar, or in some other tank you don't have yet that the that hubs cannot know about.


So I pick option 3 out of those..... 😂 yeah I’ve been playing with the idea of running a backup sponge filter in the main tank and having it for emergencies and possibly quarantine/fry situations where you could set up a makeshift tupperware tub with aquarium water and the sponge filter..... there isn’t a ton of room for it but it could really come in useful in a pinch.

I think some motor maintenance on the HoB will also help things a lot. I hadn’t realized yet that needed to be done.

Now that I think about it, would just having the sponge in there be sufficient to get it inhabited? Beneficial bacteria cover the rocks and substrate.... why not a random sponge? Would be easier than keeping the whole filter in there. Hmmmm.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Water Wisteria just won the Surface Touch race against the limno who still needs another 2 mm to reach and the Hornwort who is a good cm behind.

Winner gets trimmed lol.

Well, all three are getting trimmed.

Val is already starting to bend and lie along the surface. Val is NOT getting trimmed. I am very excited about my future Mess of Val.

As I’m learning more about the plants and seeing how they behave I’m seeing more and more..... unfortunate placement choices I made, lol. Might have to rotate limno to the back or at least thin it out as it’s obscuring the whole center of the tank.

I’m lowkey envious of anyone who’s got scuds and seed shrimp and live daphnea and stuff just randomly living in their tank.... I have no idea how I’d go about having them, beyond, like, bringing in pond water which I’m not quite brave enough for. I do think I have rotifers or something small enough to not be visible to the naked eye, because the chilis, the lampeyes and Daisy Mugil are always picking tiny somethings off the wood and plants and rocks. Only the boring embers are like ‘nope, that’s not in the rule book, the rule book says Food Must Come From Above, until it does we’ll just sit around here mid-column looking confused. And try to ignore Bob.’


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so the heart attacks never stop....

Please observe this picture and tell me what you imagine between the two vials. A massive water change? Bucketfuls of Prime? Much panicked hand-wringing and running around emitting unsettling whining sounds?








It was actually a cup of tea.

Of course if I had seen the green you can bet I’d have been emptying the bottle of Prime in there faster than you can say ‘panic attack’.

But I didn’t.

I fed the fish in the morning, then about 15 min later I realized it’s Thrive Day, so I scooped out a water sample before adding the Thrive, to avoid getting false nitrate readings.... then I walked the kid to school and finished my tea, then did the test. And nearly died. 

Through lucky happenstance I read just yesterday somewhere that taking a measurement right after feeding can give skewed results.... so before reaching for the Prime and the buckets, I looked at the tank in which everyone looked as unconcerned as ever, and decided to retest. And got the pure yellow.

So..... yeah. Weirdly the nitrites were zero, and nitrates also elevated compared to normal.... so the guys who turn ammonia to nitrite are a little slower than the guys who turn nitrite to nitrate. 

I didn’t see anyone talk much about this phenomenon, if I hadn’t read that one line I would have panicked massively upon seeing that crazy amount of green. I’m super curious if anyone else has tested their water 10-15 min after feeding? What do everyone’s results look like? Maybe I should be giving them even less worms hahah.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Ok so the heart attacks never stop....
> 
> Please observe this picture and tell me what you imagine between the two vials. A massive water change? Bucketfuls of Prime? Much panicked hand-wringing and running around emitting unsettling whining sounds?
> View attachment 1040354
> ...


Hmm; that's interesting. I've never tested after feeding, I'll have to give it a try. Curious to other's experiences as well.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

In other, less nerve-damaging news, THERE ARE COPEPODS IN MY JAR!!! I am so goshdarned pleased about them. Finally I’m not the only one without microlife. 

I was staring at the jar trying to discern if my moss is growing (yes, barely) and if the ludwigias are reddening (yes, slowly), when I saw something zippity-zip through my field of vision.... so nothing in there should be zippity-zipping, so I spent a while trying to spot the impossibly teeny tiny thing. It was zipping along the glass so I pulled out my crummy loupe to see if I can ID him.... anyway my first thought was ‘ok so he looks like an IUD’. So I was like hmm can I google ‘infusoria species that looks like IUD?’ But felt too stupid doing that so instead I googled ‘infusoria species’ and found him by elimination. 

I have copepods!! Yayyy!!! In the main tank I guess they get eaten by my microhunters but in the jar the snails aren’t vicious enough.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Hmm; that's interesting. I've never tested after feeding, I'll have to give it a try. Curious to other's experiences as well.


If you don’t know about the phenomenon and just happen to accidentally test after feeding it can definitely give you a heart attack....

I wonder if there’s a measure like ‘if you’re feeding an appropriate amount your ammonia will only spike by ____.

I also wonder if live/frozen foods spike it more than flake or pellet. But it would be hard to test because it’s hard to feed comparable amounts of these things. I definitely feed less Hikari than bbs... even though the bbs morsel I feed is insanely small.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I tried to recreate this morning’s findings about ammonia spikes after feeding at dinnertime, and it totally didn’t happen.... I fed freeze dried bloodworms, crushed to powder and rehydrated... I never know how long to rehydrate, sure hope it’s ok. Anyway it didn’t spike my ammonia even temporarily. I’ll measure again tomorrow morning after breakfast to see what’s what.

Tonight I gave the shrimp a piece of the algae wafer, which is always a challenge because suddenly everybody wants to be a shrimp...








‘What, dis only shrimp food? But I iz shrimp! I iz special Lampeye Shrimp. You don’t know dis kind? Iz related to blue jelly!’








‘Yes, khmm, umm, did someone say ‘shrimp’? Because we are definitely shrimp. We’re.... tangerine tigers? But a special stripeless sort. Very rare, yes. Om nom nom nom.’

Anyway all the shrimp impersonation stopped when I switched off the light. Hopefully Miss Amano will handle the wafer bit during the night and remove the temptation.








Frank and Gary really confuse me. When they first came, Gary (the white one) was by far the bigger of the two and now they look almost the same...








You can see exactly how much Gary grew since he came in... his old shell was chalk white and the new shell is growing in a beautiful pearlescent pink. Frank was so small when he came his shell has remained all translucent... but isn’t pink, just a frosty white.

I can’t wait for the brown ramshorns to grow.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so I tried to recreate yesterday’s weird results just to see if this is something that happens daily...... and nothing. Not even a smidge of ammonia at any time.

I measured before feeding as a control, then 10 min after feeding, 25 min after feeding, and I also left part of that second sample to test an hour later like I had done the previous day. Nooooothing. Yellow like bananas.

So perhaps yesterday’s green was some sort of fluke. Options

I had overfed yesterday (I always do one paintbrush swipe but it sort of depends on how dense the worms are where you’re swiping...)
I picked up some microworms in the sample which died and raised ammonia in the sample but not in the tank
I somehow contaminated the sample between collecting and testing
Something else had spiked ammonia yesterday, like something died out of sight (though I see everyone I normally see, so IDK)

Anyway yeah, I’m none the wiser but just wanted to share as it’s pretty weird findings... really shows how easily you can come to wrong conclusions with insufficient data.

Anyway everyone seems healthy so we’ll call it a learning experience in progress.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I looked at Chug today as they had come out to steal the last pieces of the algae wafer, and I realized how old they look... now I have never previously had a senior snail so at first I thought it might be some health issue... their body is a little darker and smaller, they move slowly, the shell has lost a lot of its previous shine... It used to be a beautiful golden olive color. Anyway they’re only 5 months old and the internet claims they can last up to a year, but... I feel I have a senior snail. They have already outlived many chuglets and even chug-chuglets possibly.

It really struck me, the thought that Chug’s life is almost over. I remember so clearly that first moment we saw him. We had just set up the tank, confused and smudged with Flourite dust. The tank looked like a wasteland, all milky, with two rocks and two plants. And amid this desolation of bacterial bloom and unsettled dust, over the Mars vibes of the red Flourite expanse, Chug was gliding across the glass. Small, sparkling grayish blue, and perfect, as if she had sprung straight from our desire to see life in the tank. Gliding through this new, fresh alien world, Chug the Magnificent, both King and Queen of her barren domain. With her tiny Batman ear style antennae. We felt like Dr Frankenstein. Our tank was alive! It had spontaneously generated Chug.

I have lost plenty of fish while climbing this learning curve, panicked more than once, but have never cried for any of them. I cried for Chug today and he is not even gone. But seeing him moving do slowly today, barely peeking out of his faded shell... I dropped a mineral stick right on top of him and he turned ever so painstakingly towards it, but I didn’t see him eat any. Chug who would find the shrimp food before the shrimp and the plec food before the plec. Chug who would not just eat the blanched French string bean, but would roll in it in visible carnal delight. Chug who almost slurped up all my TC ludwigias like so many raspberry popsicles.

Chuggy will always be the greatest snail ever and my first aquatic love. We have loads of snails, five species, many sizes and colors, but only one Chug. Unbought and unsold, unbound by others, Chug lived a life of freedom and indulgence with an effortless elegance few can muster. I remember watching them mesmerized as they danced an odd snail ballet with their reflection, hovering just below the water surface. We all worried when we’d see them hovering mid-water column, then watched with fascination as careful body extensions and undulations brought them back within reach of some plant to grab onto.

Sweet Chug. May we love others as we have loved you.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

Above, please see _A Eulogy for the Not Dead Yet Snail_


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Above, please see _A Eulogy for the Not Dead Yet Snail_


Totally 😂😂😂😂😂 But they look pretty bad 😳 I had no idea a snail could look elderly.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Chug is one lucky snail! Not going to lie, you had me tearing up this morning reading your post.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Chug is one lucky snail! Not going to lie, you had me tearing up this morning reading your post.


Hey there’s a lot to love about Chuggy ♥ I legit cried in the kitchen yesterday like a psycho haha

I haven’t switched the lights on yet but they haven’t moved since yesterday which is a little scary... although it’s at the location of the Mineral Stick Party so maybe it’s just that the party isn’t over yet.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Well Chuggy may be a senior citizen but they’re still among the living... in fact no one at all seems to have died in the tank today. I feel like I should have one of those safety counters, like ‘223 days since our last incident’. Haha, more like ‘003’.

There’s an expression where I’m from that says basically ‘one man’s dusk is another man’s dawn’. I thought of it today as I picked up a very small nicrew light, some cuttings of ludwigia repens, and a few frogbits from someone who is moving and thus has to sell all their stuff... I thought I’d use the Nicrew on the Picklescape but it’s uniquely unsuited to be used on a small round jar opening.... the light is super bright visually but clearly isn’t illuminating properly:








Compare to worst light ever but more practical:









I’m also trading some cuttings with someone tomorrow, a local girl who studies on campus very near me so it’s easy to trade with her... she is also a newbie but falling fast down the rabbit hole, she has 2 more tanks than the last time we spoke and is apparently breeding guppies now 😂 I offered her some of my limno which is trying to conquer the world, and she offered me some AR so I can experiment with (not) killing it in my dinky low tech tank...

Then someone else with like 20 years of plant experience from the local group texted me saying ‘wanna trade any plants I’m bored lol’. At first it sounded wildly unlikely that I could offer anything good (man has 22 large tanks and imports buce directly from Borneo, I have one 29g and am supposed to ‘trade plants’??? But oddly he doesn’t have red val so there, we can trade. I asked him for myriophyllum in return, as he didn’t have Brazilian pennywort.

We also had a long conversation about plants, he wasn’t kidding about being bored hahah. And I’ll never miss an opportunity to ask someone about plant stuff. It really struck me how confidently he states certain things, which I know at this forum would be questioned and found questionable, if nothing else.... which again makes me think of the possibility that everyone is right from their perspective... ‘I’ve done it this way for 20 years and it never fails!!’ ‘Oh yeah?? Well I’ve done it _this_ way for 30 years and it always works!!’ Like yeah, maybe they both work? Isn’t that a thing?

I love hearing people’s planted tank philosophies. There’s always something new to ponder.

Also I have found the most amazing betta online which is exceptionally bad. And I’m starting to have a map of Interesting Neighborhood Rocks to potentially swipe from the road/people’s yards and driveways that would look amazing in all those tanks I neither have nor want.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

I sense a non-jar, "not another tank" tank in your near future!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I sense a non-jar, "not another tank" tank in your near future!


I CAAAAAAN’T!!! But I want to. But can’t. But want to. But can’t.

My ideal setup would probably be two 20g longs. They would give me more flexibility than the one bigger tank, would have the current footprint with a more accessible depth..... ah dreams.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> I CAAAAAAN’T!!! But I want to. But can’t. But want to. But can’t.
> 
> My ideal setup would probably be two 20g longs. They would give me more flexibility than the one bigger tank, would have the current footprint with a more accessible depth..... ah dreams.


Oh yeah, it's happening! 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Oh yeah, it's happening! 😂


No you don’t understand, the only way I can make this happen is by filing for divorce and filling husband’s old spaces with tanks, using alimony checks to fund it....... hmmmmm.... 🤔


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> No you don’t understand, the only way I can make this happen is by filing for divorce and filling husband’s old spaces with tanks, using alimony checks to fund it....... hmmmmm.... 🤔


If it means you'll be able to get co2, I think it's something to...oh nevermind


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So today was a fun day in Dinkytank land ⭐

First, I was putting the light timer back on the light and accidentally switched off the extension cord which made the filter die again. Like it died so much that not even smacking it helped, scandal. So I finally tackled the impeller cleaning and frankly I have never felt quite so aquaristic, hahah. Sure was grimy in there. But yeah it was easy and now it purrs like a kitten.

Second I traded some plants for a few sprigs of AR and AR green... supposedly? I mean not like I recognize the emersed forms. The plants look deeply and fundamentally terrestrial so for now I’ve just weighed them down for easy removal should things go weird and bad.

This is them, I’m taking bets on whether they live or die:

























The girl I traded with started after me and she’s at 5 tanks right now. So.... I’m feeling pretty heroic with my one tank one jar tally.

Speaking of bets, I’ve got a new race on... one stem of the supposed AR and one stem of the new L Repens I got are in the jar, the other in the main tank. It’s not entirely a fair fight because I did take the bigger plants for the tank, as there’s more room. But I’m very curious which will thrive more.

So far I have had things thrive in the jar but not the tank (L super red) and thrive in the tank but not the jar (R Indica). I’m particularly curious about the emersed AR that needs to werewolf into its submersed state. Anyway conditions in the tank and jar are similar because jar gets half its water from the tank and half from remineralized distilled water.... which I bring up to same gH as my tap (between 6 and 7). So the only difference is jar has no filter, and jar has lower pH (around 7, vs. 7.4 roughly in the tank). They both get Thrive.
















Also the jar is done pickling!! All cycled now!! ⭐

So this guy I’m trading with tomorrow is gonna bring a bunch of random stuff so that’s gonna be fun to find place for.... I think I will have to evict some boring things and rearrange other boring things. I really need more floor space. Dangit.

So these wild bettas, then.... who knew they were so pretty?


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

You're definitely headed for multi tank syndrome lol. 

Don't worry, we've all been there. You're in good company lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Anyway in continuation to Eulogy to a Not Yet Dead Snail..... 

Chug broke their shell, the poor thing! So possibly what I was reading as ravages of old age was just mechanical damage. I cannot fathom what from, as there is nothing in the tank that moves, but wise snail minds tell me snails can get trapped behind things like rocks or heaters (I do have both) and break their shells while trying to get free.... I mean I don’t know what sort of a nut you have to be to push to get through somewhere so hard your shell breaks... but that does sort of sound a lot like Chug 😅 That ‘take no prisoners’ attitude towards life.

Anyway the crack is pretty bad but I have hope they will regrow some shell and get better. Poor sweetheart. We need snail bandaids.









In happier news, the tiger lotus can finally be photographed! Next picture will be me heroically beating it back with a broom.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

Yay for the lotus!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> You're definitely headed for multi tank syndrome lol.
> 
> Don't worry, we've all been there. You're in good company lol.


I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying this. I’m fine. This is fine. One tank is fine. And, you know, a jar. Which isn’t a tank anyway. So it’s totally fine.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying this. I’m fine. This is fine. One tank is fine. And, you know, a jar. Which isn’t a tank anyway. So it’s totally fine.


From my experience, if you can hold off for a year, you are in the clear from MTS. By that point, you have realized exactly how much time taking care of a tank actually takes and how much time in a week you _don't_ have and the consequence of not taking care of the tank. You might have experienced the algae apocalypse or discovered how not-confident and not-interested-in-becoming confident your fish sitters are. And maybe even how determined all your siblings are to live overseas, so you really need fish-sitters. Hopefully, after the first year, you stop having to go to the store every other day for some new emergency, because after that long you've acquired the supplies for most of the emergencies. This of course means that you aren't seeing and falling in love with quite so many new fish individuals that you just must take home.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Yay for the cycle! Although I'm a little/*EXTREMELY* jealous 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> From my experience, if you can hold off for a year, you are in the clear from MTS. By that point, you have realized exactly how much time taking care of a tank actually takes and how much time in a week you _don't_ have and the consequence of not taking care of the tank. You might have experienced the algae apocalypse or discovered how not-confident and not-interested-in-becoming confident your fish sitters are. And maybe even how determined all your siblings are to live overseas, so you really need fish-sitters. Hopefully, after the first year, you stop having to go to the store every other day for some new emergency, because after that long you've acquired the supplies for most of the emergencies. This of course means that you aren't seeing and falling in love with quite so many new fish individuals that you just must take home.


Yes, all of these things... I have a captive fish sitter I married hahah, but I definitely have to leave him with a bare minimum of maintenance. 

All joking aside, having multiple tanks must be really fun, and you definitely get to experience more species and all that. But I do believe that something is also lost with this multiplication. I know every single snail by name in my one tank (well ok, all the ones longer than, like, 5mm), and I recognize every new plant leaf, or leaf hole... because I have one tank. I doubt I’d be this attentive with five, or ten. 

Also having to make hard decisions about space makes me think hard on which species I REALLY wanna have. What sort of scape do I really wanna do. Limitation is often helpful for creativity, not detrimental. And this one tank is already taking up most of my free time, I’d worry about whether anyone would ever see me again if there were more....

Finally, money and space really are an issue. This stuff costs a LOT, and we haven’t had the greatest couple of years, and though there are many other reasons I am not into CO2 one of them is definitely the new sizable pile of green I’d have to part with for a system like that... with tanks, even the things you do ‘on the cheap’ are expensive. Not to mention setting up a whole new tank, stand, filter, heater, lights, substrate, fish, crikey. 

Finally I look at this guy I’m trading with tomorrow.... he has ‘22 large tanks’. Untold smaller ones. Other tanks _at friends’ houses, _wtf?? And he’s _bored_. I’m pretty sure you can burn yourself out by just getting everything you want.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Yay for the cycle! Although I'm a little/*EXTREMELY* jealous 😂


Omg I thought of you immediately!! But yours should finish soon. Like 5 days ago my test colors were exactly like yours.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Anyway in continuation to Eulogy to a Not Yet Dead Snail.....
> 
> Chug broke their shell, the poor thing! So possibly what I was reading as ravages of old age was just mechanical damage. I cannot fathom what from, as there is nothing in the tank that moves, but wise snail minds tell me snails can get trapped behind things like rocks or heaters (I do have both) and break their shells while trying to get free.... I mean I don’t know what sort of a nut you have to be to push to get through somewhere so hard your shell breaks... but that does sort of sound a lot like Chug 😅 That ‘take no prisoners’ attitude towards life.
> 
> ...


Super Glue it. Gorilla Glue gel


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> Super Glue it. Gorilla Glue gel


I would if I knew where the piece was... and I’d worry about gluing it to their body, it’s quite a tricky piece. I’ll keep an eye on how it’s growing back tho... and if I find the piece I might actually see if it seems doable.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

You know I did a 90% water change after one day cause of you. (I'm 2 weeks in). I was off 1/8 inch from being level in my 29g. It's level now.... Did you level yours?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> You know I did a 90% water change after one day cause of you. (I'm 2 weeks in). I was off 1/8 inch from being level in my 29g. It's level now.... Did you level yours?


Ahahahahah sorry and you’re welcome? 😂

We leveled but I’m not happy with the shims we used. We will re-level again this weekend. I mean it’s pretty level right now, just I don’t like how the shims are sitting.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

My stand has leveling adjustments on the feet. Didn't use shims


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> My stand has leveling adjustments on the feet. Didn't use shims


That’s the better option! 

If I were restarting from zero the stand is the first thing I’d change.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

I didn't "cycle" my tank. I used Activ-Flora substrate. It said don't have to cycle. It had goodies in it. Looked like muddy water. After one week I bought 10 Neons and 3 green Corys. After 1 day all 10 Neons died. 50 dollars... I won't go back to that place...No where else to buy livestock around here. Corys are doing great. Ordered 10 Ember Tetras today online


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

My Numbers have been good. 7.4 PH.... 0 Ammonia...0 Nitrites.... 5 Nitrates.... It's only money


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Good luck with the embers!


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

2 weeks ... after that one day water change. I did 50% today. I should do my own journal but I don't want to. I enjoy yours too much


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> 2 weeks ... after that one day water change. I did 50% today. I should do my own journal but I don't want to. I enjoy yours too much


Haha I’m glad you like it 😊


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

The Neons that died were so small it's my fault
for buying them


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

I ordered from Aqua Huna. 10 Embers for 20 dollars. 13 dollars shipping. Closest place to buy livestock around here is 25 miles away. Petco or Petsmart. Plus gas


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

I had to order snails too. People hate snails... I had to pay for them... All the plants I bought online and no hitchhikers


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> I had to order snails too. People hate snails... I had to pay for them... All the plants I bought online and no hitchhikers


If you find any local fish keepers’ clubs or groups, trade some plants with people. That’s how I got all my snails ♥


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

I ordered 10 Ramshorns and 2 black Nerites. Nothing local except Pittsburgh. Which is 35 miles away. LFS I found is a dump


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

At least there’s always the internet  Good thing with Ramshorns is they will happily make more ramshorns.


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Ahahahahah sorry and you’re welcome? 😂
> 
> We leveled but I’m not happy with the shims we used. We will re-level again this weekend. I mean it’s pretty level right now, just I don’t like how the shims are sitting.


If you can find some composite shims, those are definitely the way to go.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> If you can find some composite shims, those are definitely the way to go.


I’ve made something I think will work well but I’ll google those immediately and see if they can be found nearby!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I got a mass of cuttings from someone today.... it’s the guy with 22 tanks. It was a little weird. I mean I’m grateful, but it was still a little weird... first it was his idea, he was like hey do you have plants to trade. I’m like it’s laughable to think you need plants from me but ok whatevz, here’s my list. It’s sad but even now with my 43 years of age whenever a guy is acting illogical I have to briefly wonder whether he wants to get weird about things... I hate that I have to consider it but there it is. Maybe he really was just bored. 

Anyway he settled on wanting some red val and water wisteria, because he is ‘restarting easy plants’ and some microworms.... I was like sure no prob. He showed me pics of easy growing stuff he had and the only thing that really struck me was the myriophyllum, so I asked for that, and maybe a sprig of AR if he can spare it. 

Anyway he brought like 10-12 plants, really cool ones too, though I really don’t think all will make it.... the myriophyllum is awesome, there’s also some cabomba purple, an incredible stem of AR which he claims is from a low tech tank but it’s so pink I don’t know... small sprig of hygro pinnatifida, some dwarf sag I think, some things I don’t recognize and something called ludwigia meta..... 

I’m like wow thanks that’s a ton of nice plants, I hope I don’t kill them and he’s like ‘oh the ludwigia meta will probably die it’s one of my hardest to maintain... it needs special place in the tank, flow blah blah...’ and I’m internally going why the heck did you give it to me then but whatcha gonna do, don’t look a gift plant in the melting leaves I guess. But weird. Like is it some sort of flex? 

Anyway tomorrow is water change so I will a) try to shim the stand god help me and b) try to Move Things Around to make sure all the new guys fit somewhere..... anyway last time I Moved Things Around (tm) things died, but I hope this time it will be ok because I’m leaving the filter alone. I’ve started to skip dinner on water change nights just in case.


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

I will take any plants you dont want .


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> I will take any plants you dont want .


Can we actually do that? What would the fast shipping to Calgary be? Because I’d be game to trade stuff if it makes sense financially.... like if it doesn’t all die in transit...

Also I can hook you up with this guy lol 😂 Don’t know if he’s only generous to girls but he definitely has plants to spare 😅


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

haha... was joking but hmmm.... it is getting warmer out nowadays. Last time I sent anything out years ago it was between $15 -20 via Canadapost to TO depending on size and weight of the box.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> haha... was joking but hmmm.... it is getting warmer out nowadays. Last time I sent anything out years ago it was between $15 -20 via Canadapost to TO depending on size and weight of the box.


But would that be the super fast delivery needed for plants to stay alive? 

I’m kinda peeved we can’t easily trade stuff... how cool would it be to exchange cuttings by post. And if it were a bunch of plants it could be worthwhile since getting each in the LFS adds up fast...


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

expedited or xpresspost were pretty quick. Majority of plants will survive a few days in a bag with a bit of moisture no problem. 

we can consider it when you get CO2....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> expedited or xpresspost were pretty quick. Majority of plants will survive a few days in a bag with a bit of moisture no problem.
> 
> we can consider it when you get CO2....[emoji1787]


_Et tu, @CGY_Betta_Guy? 😂😂😂_

What is it with this dark covenant trying to turn me to the CO2 side?!? 😅 Besides I thought _you_ wanted some plants, from the bushels weird dudes are throwing at me over here 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so that was quite a feat....

So we have been meaning to reshim the tank for a while now and we finally did it.... 

We had panicked when we first saw it wasn’t perfectly level and we shimmed with the first shims we found basically... but it’s been bothering me for a while how they were sitting so we decided to recorrect. But in order to do it we had to remove most of the water so I could lift the stand and hubs could slip the shims under... (he has an old spinal injury so I have to do the lifting). Anyway once that was done I just gently returned most of the old tank water back, then did the normal water change.

I used the extra low water level to plant my new acquisitions. It was tough to decide where to put some of them because I have very little floor space available for planting, and I don’t quite know how these new plants will grow... the ludwigia meta got prime real estate because the guy said it was picky but honestly it will probably just die so I don’t know why I bothered. I also gave the AR a nice prominent spot. Chug seems to like it, they’ve been inseparable since I planted it. 

I found good places for the parrot feathers because I really like them and they do have a chance to thrive. I stuck the pinnatifida randomly between two rocks but I do hope it grows, it will look better if there’s more of it. There was something that looked like it might be dwarf sag and I stuck it next to the val, they’re cousins anyway... the purple cabomba is another pretty one but I’ve read that it can be temperamental so I’m not hoping too much. There is one other thing that just looks weird and hairy and I’m not even sure I really care whether it lives or dies... my hope is that at least a half will thrive and if the other half fails it will make more room for those that thrive.... there are definitely a few new colors and textures in the tank which is absolutely cool. 

My buces are being annoying. The one that has decided to get entwined with the indica stems got pulled off the rocks today during replanting. I hate the glue with its big globs of white that don’t even catch all that well if you have to work underwater... I wish there was an easier way to stick them down while they do their own attaching business. I find them finicky and hard to attach. 

The supposed AR and AR Green still look superbly wrong in their utterly emersed form sitting underwater but I don’t see them struggling yet so that’s good I suppose.... I see a million things that need little tweaks, things sitting crooked or leaves that got entangled but I think I’m going to let everyone calm down before I go digging around again. 

Hoping tomorrow everyone will seem more perky and less disheveled... all the plants currently look like they’re having a bad hair day.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I can’t sleep so I’ve decided to try and list all my aquarium plants by memory.

Stems and rosettes:


hygrophila difformis (water wisteria) 💵
hygrophila polysperma 💵
hygrophila pinnatifida 🎁
vallisneria green 🎁
vallisneria red 💵
dwarf sag🎁
lobelia cardinalis🎁
ludwigia super red💵
ludwigia repens⭐
ludwigia meta🎁
limnophila sessiliflora💵
myriophyllum aquaticum (parrot’s feather) 🎁
cabomba purple🎁
althernathera reineckii🎁
althernathera reineckii green🎁
althernathera reineckii mini🎁
eichhornia diversifolia 🎁
rotala indica💵
nymphoides hydrophila ‘Taiwan’💵
hornwort (can’t remember Latin name and don’t feel like googling)🎁
pearlweed🎁
guppy grass🎁
red tiger lotus (not a stem but don’t feel like doing a single plant ‘bulbs’ category)💵
Amazon sword💵
crypt petchii🎁
crypt wendtii💵
something that looks like a hairy muppet and will probably die (I think it’s ludwigia inclinata ‘white’. Same as meta, what was he thinking?!) 🎁

Mosses and liverworts:


pellia🎁
riccia fluitans🎁
Christmas moss🎁
Java moss🎁

Epiphytes:


anubias nana petite💵
buce brownie sp. (not brown)💵
buce ‘extreme metallic blue’ (almost blue)💵
buce ‘silky blue’ (not blue)🎁
Java fern🎁
java fern windelov (maybe? It’s still a baby)🎁

Floating plants:


Amazon frogbit⭐
salvinia minima🎁
💵 - bought from lfs or tc nursery
🎁 - gift from fellow aquarist
⭐ - bought cheap from fellow aquarist

So.... did I forget anyone? I’ll have to poke around in there a bit tomorrow but I think that’s most of them. 39 species in a 5 month old 29g tank, not too shabby 😊 some will probably fail to thrive so my guess is eventually I’ll even out around 30 species.

Ones I’d still want to have..... azolla up top, pogostemon stellatus purple octopus, crypt crispatula balansae or tonkinensis.

One thing I do not have, though everyone wants me to have it apparently, is duckweed. The issue with getting gift cuttings is they always always always come with duckweed. Anyway I spent a very long amount of time today teasing every single minuscule leaflet of duckweed out of the tank. Fingers crossed I got them all.

What am I missing? What would you add? 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So Chuggy didn’t make it.

They’re laying in front of the AR right now getting nibbled on by a brown ramshorn. At least they died in plain sight so we can a) remove the body and b) hold appropriate funeral services.

I’m still not sure what could have caused this type of injury. Large pieces of the shell broke off and it didn’t look like mineral deficiency erosion... anyway I had hoped it was just the shell and it might recover, because it didn’t seem to go too deep, but sadly no. Maybe they got trapped behind the heater while it was on and suffered heat damage. I guess we will never really know.

Anyway I refer you to my previous eulogy. Chuggy was the best of snails and will be sorely missed.

I’m wondering whether we should buy a big snail, like a mystery, or just roll with life and see if our tank blesses us with any new chuglike surprises.

The plants are settling well after yesterday’s grand replantening, but I have done some work to ID and read up on the different species I got and there are quite a few I really don’t expect to see thriving. It will be a learning experience nonetheless.

This is what the tank looks like right now. Definitely more color.


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

Poor Chugs.

Thats a lot of plants! Looks good!

Think I read comments recently saying mystery snails are big poopers.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Sorry to hear about Chugs. We've yet to bring ourselves to replace our big Mystery snail we lost.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Poor Chugs. My son is really sad too. The tank is not the same without them. We did a formal little send-off... Lu did the eulogy. He said ‘Chug...... you were thicc.’ After a bit I was like is that it? And he was like ‘Yeah.’

Anyway we have a new rising star, a very pretty little brown ramshorn and in Chug’s honor we named him Chuglus. So there is that.


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## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

Pouring one out for Chugs.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Bootsy said:


> Pouring one out for Chugs.


😞🧡💔


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I’m observing all my new plantlets with keen interest. I’ve never had so many difficult or semi-difficult plants before. Actually I’ve never had any. At one point long ago someone gave me a cutting of rotala Vietnam and it looked like a nuclear strike survivor after a while.... it wasn’t dying per se but it was definitely surviving rather than thriving. That was before I dosed ferts tho.

So at any rate I am very curious to see what happens. 

For the moment, l repens is putting out new leaves, so are AR mini and the myriophyllum. Both emersed ARs also seem to be growing, putting out random roots along the stem and I don’t see any deterioration yet in the old emersed growth.

The red/purple cabomba has two stems, one has dropped its crown but both are still in the substrate and hopefully will grow. The eichhornia looks good for now, I’m not quite sure whether it’s putting out a new leaf... the ludwigia meta looks weird but maybe it’s supposed to, I don’t really know. What I thought of as ludwigia white but is really a very pale lime green looks like it had been dragged around by stray dogs, so I don’t know how normal that is but we don’t give up on anyone here, so we will see. I’m even keeping the cabomba crown floating in case that wants to grow. Baby Javas look the same, though if others I got are any indication they will melt back a lot.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

Why does anything melt back if it begins life underwater. My thinking is it grew out of water and will melt when put under water


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

Just caught up on this. I'm sorry to hear about Chug! I hope good things come for Chuglus, and I am looking forward to hearing his adventures. Congrats on all the new plants! I am interested to hear how they do!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> Why does anything melt back if it begins life underwater. My thinking is it grew out of water and will melt when put under water


Plants melt back because the leaves they have are suited to the water conditions the plant grew in. Maybe that water was cooler than mine, or softer, or more alcaline, or whatever.

Some plants simply adjust their new leaves, but some take the more dramatic approach of burning themselves to the ground and then rising from the ashes to begin anew.

That said I’ve never had complete melt, except with my tiger lotus. Even the crypts who are famous for melt tended to only lose a few leaves.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Just caught up on this. I'm sorry to hear about Chug! I hope good things come for Chuglus, and I am looking forward to hearing his adventures. Congrats on all the new plants! I am interested to hear how they do!


I hope Chuglus will turn out to be an eventful snail ♥

Yeah I am so curious too!! I’m especially keeping an eye on the eichhornia and ludwigia meta. The easier guys like parrot feathers and L repens are already clearly showing decent growth. I’m also very interested in what the pinnatifida will do. It’s only a tiny spriglet, and so many people here comment stuff like ‘I hate h pinnatifida!!!’ 😅 But I’m still hoping it thrives.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Your tank looks great! I would assume that is the 29 gallon?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Blackheart said:


> Your tank looks great! I would assume that is the 29 gallon?


Thanks!! Yeah, 29g tall!! This is after everyone got haircuts but you can see a lot of them really use that extra height...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

One thing I find really interesting about the frilly plants like myriophyllum and limno sessiliflora is they are far more mobile than other plants. My guess is it’s because their leaves are less stiff and thus easier to move....

like, every plant will right itself towards the light over the course of a day or two. When I float cuttings, they take on a distinctive U shape because their head is twisting around to face towards the light. But I don’t have many plants that bother to move around throughout the day... except the myriophyllum and the limno. They close up their leaves at night indicating it’s time to sleep... and it’s not even like they do it when I switch off the lights. At one point in the evening they’re just like ‘awright, I’m out!’ and they close up their tops. 

Then in the morning while the tank lights are still off they turn their faces towards the window to reach whatever ambient light they can (there isn’t much but they still try), they lean towards the glass and press their heads against it looking like children with their noses stuck against the candy shop window. Then when lights come on, they face straight up.

Oh yeah the cabomba is doing it too.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I just had a pickle jar spruce up session since the AR had gone mad, shot up to the surface and started growing emersed again 🙄

I’m having a huge amount of trouble balancing the emersed plants in the jar because they’re just too big for it.... I might have to give up and take out the peace lily and stick it in a glass or something. Every time I stick it into the jar the roots knock something off the stone... the dragon stone is so porous it’s very hard for the glue to attach the poor anubias firmly, and literally anything knocking against them makes them float off again...

I trimmed and replanted the AR which seems to be converting really well. I’m thinking now I might make the jar stems all red, if it works.... I think I might need to be fertilizing the jar more... it’s only little so I haven’t been giving it much, but maybe the emersed plant roots are taking more than I imagine. Also nothing will be negatively affected in the jar so I guess there’s no harm in adding more and seeing what happens.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So here’s a quick update on my new inhabitants....








This is the thing I thought was ludwigia white... it’s a weird looking thing but doesn’t seem to be doing badly. I want to give it a good hairbrushing.








AR is doing a good job converting...








Out of the two red cabomba stems one has literally lost its head (it’s floating up top, maybe it sprouts something) and the other is growing quite happily for now. I’m hopeful.









Ludwigia meta is growing out into a narrow tip, I’m still waiting to see whether the new leaves will grow out sideways or stay all stunted like this... honestly even so stunted it’s looking pretty cute.








Eichhornia is struggling, but also growing new leaves... if it gets any worse I’ll try floating it closer to the light.








AR mini is putting out new leaves and they’re looking pretty shiny.


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

First one looks like pogostemon erectus


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> First one looks like pogostemon erectus


OOoooh that’s a great guess!! And it makes a lot of sense actually, I think the guy mentioned pogostemons... and pogo erectus is not super difficult which would make sense of the fact that it’s not dying.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So the weirdest thing is happening.... you know how I was under dosing Thrive so my plants started stunting? So then I started dosing better and everyone had explosive growth.... then I added a few more plants (like, not a lot. There isn’t even that much room really) and now everyone is stunting again... ok not everyone but a few individuals. I guess I up ferts more? Man. Someone in there is hungry.

By the way greetings from Chuglus The Bronze. I thought it was Chuglas like to rhyme with Douglas, but apparently it must be written with a second U.

I’m going to pick up tissue cultures of pogo stellatus purple octopus and crypt tonkinensis. Where will I plant them, you ask? Ok, how about an easier question instead? And we just ignore this one.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So my ludwigia meta isn’t doing so bad so far. But my hygro polysperma is stunting again. Which.... what the heck? What sort of tank can grow L meta but not H polysperma??








Perhaps you can’t really see it in this picture but that baby Java fern made a baby-baby Java fern on its leaf tip and the baby-baby has attached to the wood behind it... basically I have fractal Java fern. I’ll use a loupe to make sure there isn’t a baby-baby-baby Java growing on the tiny one.








My blue buce is pretty darn blue. Color me impressed. Other two are still green.








These are the sessilifloras with their faces stuck to the glass, trying to slurp up some ambient light before the tank lights kick in.

I got my two new TC pots. The pogo stellatus purple octopus is like a bajillion plantlets. I’m thinking of setting up a dirted tub for them and growing them out to some point because they need decent light and being this tiny in my overgrown mess of a tank won’t work out. I wonder if it will be tricky for them to convert later... I wonder if I can hack together a diy co2 setup for this grow out tub... hmmmmm. I don’t really wanna buy anything for it. I’ll look at how easy the setup looks and judge if it’s worth the pain.

The crypt didn’t come in a bajillion plantlets, just two, but reasonably sized and one is already throwing purple leaves which is very very cool. They can go straight into my crypt patch and rise slowly from the shadows.

Flatty the _wrong_ ember is, by the way, doing great. Literally nothing wrong with Flatty besides his weird physical deformity. I’m very pleased Flatty seems made of sturdy stuff and isn’t going anywhere hopefully.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I went up the local mountain with a friend and dug up some earth with a spoon. Baked it in the oven tonight, much to husband’s chagrin (he feels this is deeply wrong somehow) and will try to set up a dirted pogo tub tomorrow. Will report back with results ⭐


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so I sifted and baked some potting mix only to discover it’s largely made of either sphagnum or coir, and floats... the resulting marshland wasn’t going to allow me to plant anything so I used it to start some flower seeds for my balcony and added actual dug-out-of-the-ground type dirt to the tub.

Water is slowly clearing but still quite mucky. Hopefully it will settle overnight and let me plant tomorrow. I need to also hack together a light brace and find a way to plant into mud without raising the whole thing up into the water column again. 

I planted the two crypts into the tank today, I hope they will take off. There are so many plants in there..... I find it extremely difficult to just let go of some species but it’s a bit of a rush hour bus vibe in there. Maybe some will have to go.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

So my 10 Embers came 6 days ago. Doing fine. 10 fer 10 so far. Going to order Pearl White Rice fish now. Fingers crossed. Got some brown algae now. Its expected. Water Sprite planted 10 days ago has reached the surface. Needs trimmed soon and replanted.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> So my 10 Embers came 6 days ago. Doing fine. 10 fer 10 so far. Going to order Pearl White Rice fish now. Fingers crossed. Got some brown algae now. Its expected. Water Sprite planted 10 days ago has reached the surface. Needs trimmed soon and replanted.


rice fish are adorable!!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Joy of joys I have proper dirt! And a proper dirted tub at that. Water is still a little.... well, dirty, I suppose, but generally it’s looking good and I didn’t have any major problems with the planting....

I planted the 25 or so plantlets that had any sort of roots to speak of. Those who didn’t are now floating in my corral with the frogbit and salvinia, with the hope that they will grow some roots or die trying... 


























Also wanted to show off the unbelievable dinkiness levels of this growout setup 😂 Every time I follow journals I’m like wow these people are so handy and so wealthy 🤩 Anyway here I am, being decidedly neither, but hey my dirt needed lighting so I took the corner of the box the TC pots came in and a bit of my favorite Duck Tape (can’t go wrong with polka dots!) and made a light stand. 

I did briefly consider getting a simple metal book end or something but it SNOWED TODAY, because this is Montreal and the weather must often be surprising and awful simultaneously, and I did not feel like traipsing around town for them. I made a small reinforcement block to screw the light on but since the cardboard is corrugated it was not looking very stable... so I punched a hole in the cardboard with a scalpel to let the screw tighten through it and secure the lamp to the stand. Won’t win any beauty awards but won’t fall into the tub either.

Little pogos are looking sweet. Planting into dirt was both more harrowing and easier than expected. I’m now contemplating making the simplest possible diy co2 setup and seeing if it does anything for the pogos. I don’t know if they are finding the light too bright, or too dim, or they like it. Guess we’ll see.

I’ve never had anything in dirt before.... no idea if I should be changing the water or just topping up or what. Shrug.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

That's awesome! I for one support and applaud the dinkiness 😀


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

Looks like a fun project but I think you got ripped off on your new tank.. that does not look like low iron glass


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> Looks like a fun project but I think you got ripped off on your new tank.. that does not look like low iron glass


Yeah dangit also their customer service is the worst!! Apparently no refunds on purchases of less than 2.50$ in value, can you believe it?? 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so I’m trying to figure out the cheapest way to additionally spruce up my low iron tupperware and keep my baby pogos happy... it’s quite overwhelming honestly.

I find it so weird how people assume you will have things... like ‘oh just add an airstone’ ok I guess I have to buy an airstone.... but what the heck do they run on?? Oh so I need an air pump first.... like when people say ‘oh get a sponge filter they’re like 5$’ but they’re also not a self contained unit, they need an air pump too.... I guess when you’ve been in the hobby a while you just have these things but it keeps surprising me what a massive pile of tank stuff I’ve accrued and yet there’s constantly more crud I still don’t have.

The pogos that didn’t have any shred of root to speak of are floating in the main tank and thinking up ways to complicate my life... many are minuscule and will readily sink when pulled down by a shrimp or snail... meaning they’re getting stuck EVERYWHERE. Either they will die off in random shady corners or this tank will be 80% pogo in three months.

Speaking of.... I might have to start playing plant favorites. Some things- ludwigia super red, hygro polysperma, rotala indica.... they’re just unhappy in the tank... maybe it would make more sense giving their space to someone else. But it’s weirdly hard for me to give up on a species. 

I’m still not sure I get the diy co2, but for better or worse I’ve found the video I plan to follow. It will be fun to try and get it to run... I can already see the horror on husband’s face when yeasty soda bottles become a thing. The only reason I’m still married is because I keep saying the words ‘oh that’s only temporary!’ whenever his eyes land on anything untoward.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

I can picture your husband's journal  

12 March - stinky mashed potato worms
28 March - that's not another tank
19 April - oh that's only temporary


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I can picture your husband's journal
> 
> 12 March - stinky mashed potato worms
> 28 March - that's not another tank
> 19 April - oh that's only temporary


That’s, like, disturbingly near reality 😂 Except with many more entries. He even minded my pothos in a water glass on the kitchen window sill.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I can picture your husband's journal
> 
> 12 March - stinky mashed potato worms
> 28 March - that's not another tank
> 19 April - oh that's only temporary


I'm literally still laughing about this.


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Ok so I’m trying to figure out the cheapest way to additionally spruce up my low iron tupperware and keep my baby pogos happy... it’s quite overwhelming honestly.
> 
> I find it so weird how people assume you will have things... like ‘oh just add an airstone’ ok I guess I have to buy an airstone.... but what the heck do they run on?? Oh so I need an air pump first.... like when people say ‘oh get a sponge filter they’re like 5$’ but they’re also not a self contained unit, they need an air pump too.... I guess when you’ve been in the hobby a while you just have these things but it keeps surprising me what a massive pile of tank stuff I’ve accrued and yet there’s constantly more crud I still don’t have.
> 
> ...


Most folks who've been in the hobby for a long time typically have a rubbermaid container, or containers completely filled with aquarium stuff. What usually happens, or at least happened with me is my tanks will be running along smoothly for a long time, and then a new filter/pump/whatever comes out and I decide to buy one to test out. I like how it works, and the filter it replaced goes into one of those rubbermaid containers lol. I lived in an apartment most of my adult life so eventually I rented a storage unit to store all of my hobby crap that I didn't have room for in the apartment. If you opened my storage unit you'd quickly be able to tell what kinds of hobbies I'm into haha. I probably have 4 aquariums sitting in storage right now lol. 

Whenever I go looking for something, I open rubbermaid containers and am like holy crap, didn't even know I had that lol. I'm hopefully completely a project at my house soon that will allow me to empty out that storage unit and store everything at home instead. It'll be like Christmas opening rubbermaid containers and being surprised by what kind of stuff I find inside lol. 

I've enjoyed reading through your posts. It's always fun watching a new aquarist experiment and try different things. It's all part of what makes this hobby so fun and rewarding.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> Most folks who've been in the hobby for a long time typically have a rubbermaid container, or containers completely filled with aquarium stuff. What usually happens, or at least happened with me is my tanks will be running along smoothly for a long time, and then a new filter/pump/whatever comes out and I decide to buy one to test out. I like how it works, and the filter it replaced goes into one of those rubbermaid containers lol. I lived in an apartment most of my adult life so eventually I rented a storage unit to store all of my hobby crap that I didn't have room for in the apartment. If you opened my storage unit you'd quickly be able to tell what kinds of hobbies I'm into haha. I probably have 4 aquariums sitting in storage right now lol.
> 
> Whenever I go looking for something, I open rubbermaid containers and am like holy crap, didn't even know I had that lol. I'm hopefully completely a project at my house soon that will allow me to empty out that storage unit and store everything at home instead. It'll be like Christmas opening rubbermaid containers and being surprised by what kind of stuff I find inside lol.
> 
> I've enjoyed reading through your posts. It's always fun watching a new aquarist experiment and try different things. It's all part of what makes this hobby so fun and rewarding.


Thanks! I'm always happy when someone enjoys my panicked ramblings 

Yeah I'm getting the feeling most aqua people have tons of spare gear.... Everyone's always going like 'you can make this just with the things you have lying around your house!!' and I'm like unless you mean cling film and duct tape no, no I cannot  Guess it's early days for me yet 

I had a storage container for a while when I was trying to work on renovating chairs and hubs wouldn't let me turn the second bedroom into a workshop hahahah. But then we moved cities so now I'm trying really really hard to cram all my stuff into what space we have. It's part of what's keeping me from multiple tank syndrome haha. I just literally have no space. It's a tough battle sometimes between not throwing away stuff you still care about and hope to use one day and also not living in a hoarding style situation where you have to fight your way through hobby paraphernalia to get to the sink each morning. Always keeps me looking at innovative storage solutions 

Also I have that Christmas experience often with clothing, I wear like three things at most all winter and then when spring comes it's like oooooh!! aaaaaah!!! Look at this one!! Look at that one!! Why don't they fit? 😅


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

My Pearl White Rice fish came today. OMG. I have a black background. They love the top of the tank.... Stunning.... I need 6 more... I'll post a pic L8r


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> My Pearl White Rice fish came today. OMG. I have a black background. They love the top of the tank.... Stunning.... I need 6 more... I'll post a pic L8r


Definitely wanna see them!!


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

Maybe you can help. My Embers look like they don't like to eat my flakes I feed them. They take a bite then spit it out... Omega One flakes. None of the 10 are skinny. I grind the flakes with my fingers too to make them tiny. The Rice Fish inhaled them on the surface. I suppose cause they starve them for shipping


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

My next fish will be a Gold Ram or 2.... See where I'm going there?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Go easy on the food with the new fish, they do get starved so they can overeat to the point of hurting themselves if you give them too much right off the bat...

With embers if you want them to eat the flakes, keep feeding the tank flakes... they’ll eat when they get hungry enough... if you want to indulge them you can get some nicer foods. Flake tends to be not the greatest fish food.... mine get very excited about live microworms, freeze-dried crushed bloodworms, crushed Bug Bites, crushed algae wafer, crushed Hikari micro pellets, frozen baby brine shrimp.... I vary the food because I think nothing wants to eat the same meal every day forever. Can’t tell you how they react to flakes since I don’t feed any, but in general they don’t seem picky to me.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

Sorry ... I shouldn't Hijack your Journal.... Thanks.. I will alter their diet... I'm just glad they are alive since my Neons croaked. You are my son's age by the way.... 1978


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> Sorry ... I shouldn't Hijack your Journal.... Thanks.. I will alter their diet... I'm just glad they are alive since my Neons croaked. You are my son's age by the way.... 1978


It’s a great vintage, 1978 

You can definitely start a journal of your own and show us all your ricefish pics ♥ But I don’t mind you hanging out here with me 😉

By the way your rams will want a very warm tank... not sure about the ricefish and your plants being excited about such high temperatures?


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

Where do you keep your temp? Mine is 78°F. Rams might work. Low end.....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> Where do you keep your temp? Mine is 78°F. Rams might work. Low end.....
> 
> View attachment 1041376


I try for 75. We’ll see what will happen in the summer lol. 

Adorable ricefish! ♥


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I came up with this massive plan to pull together a ramshackle DIY CO2 system to grow out my little pogos... There’s an advice thread and everything... I came pretty close to working out all the kinks I think... but I’ve been observing the pogos today and they’re growing with marked enthusiasm in their bare bones little dirted tub... Maybe I just leave them to it? ...or I get them a bigger tub for Step Two 😈

The Picklescape is still in a mucky grimy beginning stage but everyone in there is doing well... I’m not clear on how much to fertilize it so I’m doing it a little haphazardly. I took out the peace lily and its annoying roots, it lives on the coffee table now in a jar with the pothos. I wonder if I will dare at some stage to introduce shrimp to the Picklescape. They would be cute in there.

Main tank is doing great, I’m dosing 2.5ml of regular Thrive 3 times a week at the moment and it seems to be an ok spot.... doesn’t raise nitrate over 15-20 by the end of the week, and everyone is thriving except for the rotala indica, which was struggling, then doing super super well for a while, and is now struggling again, without me being any the wiser. Shrug.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

So sorry to hear about Chug but good to see your plants starting to thrive now that your ferts are working! Now that you're dosing properly, are you having any algae issues?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> So sorry to hear about Chug but good to see your plants starting to thrive now that your ferts are working! Now that you're dosing properly, are you having any algae issues?


None! My working theory is my light is a little too crappy for algae. Which, you know, win!

I’m still dosing low compared to what the calculators suggest. Like half of PPS dosing. Also my organics are still pretty darn low. So I think between the crap light and the low organics it doesn’t find much room...

Also my fish are minuscule and I’m understocked according to aquadvisor etc (around 70% and they are supposedly conservative).

On the other hand I do feed live daily. But very little.

Something interesting is happening with my Meta, it seems to be sending out longer leaves again... wonder if it was the stress of the move or the lack of light while it was lower down. I will experiment to see if I can get it to grow reasonably and propagate. Growing somewhat reasonable ludwigia meta in this tank would be a crazy level of win.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

You never even had a diatom phase did you?


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## plantnoobdude (Jun 25, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> Growing somewhat reasonable ludwigia meta in this tank would be a crazy level of win.


There have been quite a few tanks with pantanal growing well in no co2. since meta is supposedly considerably easier than pantanal, your goal shouldn't be too hard.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

plantnoobdude said:


> There have been quite a few tanks with pantanal growing well in no co2. since meta is supposedly considerably easier than pantanal, your goal shouldn't be too hard.


Any specific tips and tricks? My tank is not just no CO2, also fairly bad light, very low flow and questionable fert regimen 😂 


Virtus said:


> You never even had a diatom phase did you?


Not really... I had a short phase with a bit of detritus on the substrate but it was really very brief.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

My fractal java fern is growing on the wood now.... it is unspeakably tiny, but growing. Leaves are around 6mm in length. The mother plant leaves are around 2-2.5cm long... wonder why she decided to reproduce, is it because she’s struggling to adapt? We’ll see how she does, and how the fractal baby does. I like that the fractal baby has attached itself naturally to the wood.

Ludwigia super red is stunting again in the main tank after progressing nicely in the jar... I will give them more time and see which way they go. Myriophyllum is somewhat too lively and might have to be thinned. Cabomba purple is not purple but otherwise booming. Alternathera reineckii is weirdly over-rambunctious, and the althernathera green is growing much more slowly, but both are looking very healthy. Eichhornia is throwing out lots of new leaves but no side shoots yet.... Meta lower leaves are disintegrating but the top is very lively. I am waiting to see how it adapts.

The buces are all putting out new leaves in interesting shades of almost not entirely green... Pinnatifida is still trying to orientate itself, I can’t really tell if it will thrive. Moss is growing nicely...

I find it amazing how every week at water change there are so many little upkeep things to do... every week I think ok surely now that I’ve brought everything to order next week there won’t be much.... but I always find loads of new things to delicately adjust.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! SHRIMPY!! TINY SHRIMPY!!!!! Only one but he’s all alive and stuff!!!! 🤩⭐🤩⭐🤩 Can anyone tell me what age he might be? I feel he’s small enough to be part of some later berries I haven’t even seen, not my two original berried mamas.... Tank is getting junglier, so things are getting harder to track in there.

He came out for a tiny bit of algae wafer I threw in. Miss Amano grabbed it and ran off but thankfully she dropped some crumbs in her haste....

Can’t believe we have a tiny shrimpy ⭐🦐⭐


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so Shrimping Authorities have confirmed Shrimpy (official name, Shrimpy the shrimp) would be around 2 months old, which fits with the berries we had.... I’m hoping there are more hidden survivors but even if it is just Shrimpy we are still grateful for him. Our tank has produced fry! It’s a big thing. My kid adores him. Wonder if he’ll turn out to be a boy or a girl...... also wonder at what age is it first possible to sex them. Also wonder how I never saw him so far... once you spot him he’s really quite visible. 

Shrimpy! 🦐⭐🦐⭐🦐


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Two!!! Two confirmed shrimpies out at the same time!! Which sorta makes me think there have got to be more because for sure they wouldn’t all be out at the same time. Wonder did I just unlock some sort of shrimpyvision by spotting that one guy yesterday or have they literally all decided that alright gang, we all come out..... now!

They all look nicely yellow with the racing stripe down the back. (I say all because I’m not sure if the one I saw yesterday was one of these two I’m looking at today).

This is all quite epically exciting!!! ⭐

......literally no one in my life cares except you guys 😂


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Woohoo!! What exciting news!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Woohoo!! What exciting news!


Truly!! I had entirely given up on the shrimpies!! My adult females, the three I have left since Lemon walked the plank, are all saddled but none are berried... it was a little sad to think that my chili hunters had exterminated all the little ones. I was thinking that I had failed in the tank setup, not giving them enough cover, foolishly putting them together with adorable but murderous chilis... I must confess I am relieved. I do want everyone in here to thrive. 

In other news, lots of weird stuff is happening again. Bill the Jerk Ember (also affectionately known as Bill The Bully) continues to chase anyone and everyone from his vicinity. (Not territory, he goes where he wants, and chases whoever gets close, regardless of species). Flatty is still lookin flat but otherwise well. Daisy is extremely good at finding wafer bits and is constantly jostling with the shrimp for them, she is looking extremely fat today, as always on algae wafer day. 

The OG chilis are barely visible now, around six or seven come up at feeding time... I’m pretty sure the others are also still in there, but the floor is getting so dense they are hard to spot and they don’t like to rub shoulders with the mid-column riff-raff. Lampeye boy tails are coloring up nicely... I do see the boys chasing each other but no spawning behavior per se. I’m pretty sure I have 3 boys and 4 girls. 

One of the embers keeps away from the other embers (like all the way on the other side of the tank) and seems to do the lampeye/chili thing of hunting invisible stuff off the glass and the plants/wood. Other embers wouldn’t be caught dead scavenging and they sort of stick together very loosely. Nobody schools or even shoals. 

I miss seeing more chili behaviors. I just miss my chilis in general. If I were picking again I don’t think I’d take the embers.... I think the chilis and lampeyes would have been cool but the embers have really made the chilis go into hiding. 

My top faves list according to how fun I find them to observe (in ideal conditions)


Daisy
lampeyes
chilis
shrimp
snails
embers.

In the Plant Antics department, ludwigia meta is doing.... _this_. Yeah, I don’t know either.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Congrats on your shrimpys! There's already so much color in them. When I first got my shrimp as juveniles, half of them were nearly clear but now they've all coloured up. It'll be exciting to see how intense yellow yours will get as they grow older.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Congrats on your shrimpys! There's already so much color in them. When I first got my shrimp as juveniles, half of them were nearly clear but now they've all coloured up. It'll be exciting to see how intense yellow yours will get as they grow older.


Yeah I’m kinda surprised how colorful they are. I wonder if some colors come in later... you bought yours, right? When I bought mine even the adults were super pale.... just the stress of traveling maybe?


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah I’m kinda surprised how colorful they are. I wonder if some colors come in later... you bought yours, right? When I bought mine even the adults were super pale.... just the stress of traveling maybe?


Yep, I bought 8 as juveniles from a local breeder. Only 1 was really red (we called her Big Red) but half were pretty clear. Now I only have 1 clear-ish low-grade one, the rest are at least Big Red's initial level of intensity. I'd never seen them in a tank, just paid online and picked up the baggy with them from the person's front porch. It took about 3-4 months to color up though, I could notice the intensity grow with each molt.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Yep, I bought 8 as juveniles from a local breeder. Only 1 was really red (we called her Big Red) but half were pretty clear. Now I only have 1 clear-ish low-grade one, the rest are at least Big Red's initial level of intensity. I'd never seen them in a tank, just paid online and picked up the baggy with them from the person's front porch. It took about 3-4 months to color up though, I could notice the intensity grow with each molt.


That’s really unusual that at juvenile stage they were still clear... I really wonder if red comes in later than yellow maybe.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so I’m moving forward with the homegrown CO2 setup.... exceptionally dinky in line with my general aquaristic vibe but no major issues so far... the holes weren’t difficult, there was no massive nail at the hardware store but there was a massive screw which worked out even better... pulling the tubes through wasn’t too hard and honestly I think the seal is pretty perfect. I did buy silicone regardless so I will seal it up just in case.

Running tally so far (here’s what it will cost you if you DON’T have a tub of random aqua gear lying all around your house to scavenge from...)


Tubing was 6$, I did buy it for a different project tho
bottles I count as free since I buy those smoothies anyway
the massive screw was 1.20$
silicone was 9$
yeast and gelatine I have in my kitchen but if you had to buy all of it I’d still say your initial investment is <20$. This is with the plastic bottle ‘diffuser bell’ system tho. If you were buying a diffuser add another 10-15$, few more dollars for a T splitter if you want two bottles and a check valve if you wanna have a check valve. (Yes they’re super cheap individually but nobody sells you just one so you still have to pay a few dollars for the pack...)

I’m running this with the barest of bare minimums just to see how it goes.
























The baby pogos are making great progress and are pretty close to breaking the surface of their nursery tub... when they do I’m setting them up in a deeper bucket, with the CO2, hopefully, hahah. What’s the worst that can happen amirite? 😎








Took a few top down pics during today’s water change.... yes the light is crappy but it’s fun to see the growth from this angle. The salvinia I never wanted is doing very well for itself. The frogbit I did want is also doing nicely, which is good to see. The rootless pogos I’m floating are not doing much of anything. 








I broke down and pulled the plug on hygro poly. It just wasn’t doing well and I realized I don’t even like it. My light is not strong enough to make it blush at the tips and it’s stressing me with how it keeps stunting. Goodbye. This let me make some extra room for the eichhornia and the meta, both of which I do like, and also to put some of the ludwigia super red (which is more like ludwigia maybe brownish and really not doing well) into a more central position where it hopefully gets stronger light and prospers? Hey a girl can dream.









Down there in the murky depths is the red lotus which is so far staying low down which is weird because I thought the light is **** so he will climb.... but he seems disinclined. This makes me wonder, one of the issues of my tank perhaps is having this mass of different species and it makes it much more difficult to make decisions. This one looks like it’s nutrient starved, this other one looks like it’s overeating, that one looks like it needs more light and this other one acts like it’s got plenty... that’s maybe the benefit of having just a few species, you are better able to please them. 









Salvinia in the jar, started from a single one. It’s wasting no time. I want it to shade the anubias but it’s shading whoever it wants.
















L repens growing pale but determined in the jar. I really like L repens and want a lot of it eventually.








Jar is demoted back to its sad little light while the pogos are hogging the Nicrew. Hopefully nobody will mind too much.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so this CO2 stuff sure is potent!! My pogos apparently heard me talking about trying to put together a DIY CO2 system for them and just that knowledge that carbon goodness is coming in some indeterminate future has got them perking up already:









I jest. But I do find this CO2 thing emotionally charged.

I tried to feel out the possibility for further tweaking my ferts etc to get my main tank as optimized as possible.... I did get some great advice (much of it conflicting with each other, as usual hahah) and a lot of interesting thoughts but most seemed to boil down to ‘add CO2’.....

For sure CO2 make plantz grow gud. I do absolutely embrace that fact. I do understand that this is why most people add it. But I feel there must be more room for fine tuning and contemplation of small technique differences on the low tech side too....

I wish the low tech forum here was a bit more lively. It feels like most of the regulars are firmly in the CO2 camp. And for sure, I get that, it’s cool, your tanks are amazing guys. But it also means that a lot of pondering about how to best run a tank is immediately answered by ‘get CO2’, when it might not be the only solution to the given situation.... I’ve had that convo so many times by now. Emotionally it feels like this.

‘So I’m looking to tune up my bike, the back wheel is sorta squeaky and I’m not sure my brakes are working properly....’
‘Oh, you should get a car.’
‘But I was hoping to tune up the bike? I really like the bike, it’s just not functioning perfectly...’
‘But a car would be, like, so much faster.’
‘For sure... but I’m not entirely feeling ready for a car...’
‘Cars, man, that’s where it’s at. You can take extra passengers with you in the car. You’re protected from rain in a car. You can take road trips in it.’
‘All those things are truly super great, but I was hoping to find a way to fix this bike wheel, so it can go a little smoother and faster...’
‘Never gonna go as fast as a car tho! For real speed you just need an engine. No way around it.’
‘I’m ok with going slowly tho, I just want, like, optimal bike functioning?’
‘But the worst car functions way better than the best bike. Face it.’

🚲🐠🦐🌱


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I take back every mean thing I’ve ever said about buces always being green.... this boy is insanely difficult to photograph well but I promise you the color is even more intense and shimmery in real life. Can’t imagine how he would shine if I had a better light.... don’t know what the white flakes are, maybe bits of snow pop the shrimpies have tracked around. They’re gone now.








My Senior Shrimp is really enjoying the frogbit roots.... I’m liking the frogbit. Still a little miffed I didn’t trace down azolla, but for now this is pretty nice.

Clock the Norman’s lampeye eyes glowing slightly right of image center.








Another shrimpy baby out and about in the moss today... I saw another one chilling on a rock yesterday. I do so wish I could know how many there are. I’ve seen two out at the same time at one point, so the number is.... 2+, I suppose. I tried to lure some out with the snow pop but nope. Will try in a few days with spinach.








For some reason the anubias in the jar has made a bridge with one of its roots all the way to the new monstera root, and snails like to cross it sometimes.

I’m pretty proud of the Picklescape, it’s growing livelier and livelier. Saw a tiny weirdy worm wriggle-swimming in there today... there’s lots of tiny copepods and daphnia in there now, as well as absolutely microscopic baby snails. I’m not sure where this stuff came from, but I’m happy to see it so lively. I’m pondering whether to evict the emersed monstera from there as it keeps growing massive roots and shoving everyone. AR is growing super nicely in the jar, which makes me very happy... it’s got a beautiful yellow orange on top, pink on the bottom leaf color that gives the jar a beautiful glow. The ludwigia super red is still iffy but definitely doing better in the jar than the main tank.
















Pearlsnail.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Wow, just imagine how great that buce would look if you had CO2! 😂




I'm sorry, I had to. Everything looking great and I'd wager there's more than 2 shrimp babies hiding in there.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Wow, just imagine how great that buce would look if you had CO2! 😂
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shush you, turncoat 😂😂😂

Yeah I can’t imagine. It would probably be flashing on and off in all rainbow colors like a Las Vegas neon sign.

I really hope there are a bunch of shrimpies. Even if there aren’t that many, it still means they CAN survive, and the setup is getting bushier by the day, so future generations might have even more luck.

It’s so fun to spot a tiny shrimpy just hanging out like it’s no big deal. I still don’t see them a LOT, even though I’ve figured out a few spots where they like to hang. I keep craning my neck trying to peek in between rocks and plant roots lol.

Unrelated to anything but my green val is going mental. There’s runners everywhere. I need to subdue it somehow. It’s scaring my pogo erectus.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So some people today have suggested my tank is not scaped nicely enough. These people must now face my wrath. This tank is a vision of artistic..... lol nope they’re super right, the tank is literally a plant farm. 

My initial goals were to not change too much so the tank can stabilize, to grow plant mass so the tank can clean itself, and to provide lots of cover so all my fishdom, shrimpdom and snaildom was content. Check, check and check.

Now the tank is stable but I don’t quite know how to arrange things, especially as there isn’t a ‘back’ side per se as it’s a peninsula layout... also most of the plants I got in trades so I only have, like, one two stems of them and am still waiting to see if they will take off and adjust to the general dinkiness. 

No, these are not _excuses_, they’re _reasonable explanations_. Ok they’re totally excuses but you can’t prove anything.

I’m going to try and hold the main tank super steady for a month or so at least, ideally a couple. I want to see how everyone is doing when there is no moving, replanting, adding fish, etc etc. Then we can make decisions on which plants we want to grow/get more of, and which we maybe want to take a rest with. It was sort of empowering chucking out the hygro. I have a few ideas on who might be next on the chopping block.


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## Mr.Submarine (10 mo ago)

Good for you on holding the line regarding the scape. A tank doesn’t have to look like Takashi Amano set it up to be successful. And as you just showed, _your_ tank is achieving _your_ goals. Don’t let someone else impose constraints on you that you don’t want. 

I have been running a 10g for a few months just to see if I can not kill the plants and fish, and secondarily to (re-) learn how maintenance works and what plants I like/don’t like. I find it tough to throw any of the plants out completely, even when they grow like crazy and try to take over the entire tank (that’s you, water sprite, tall hair grass, and red root floaters!). But I did end up removing 90% of the water sprite and it felt good, just like you experienced with the hygro.


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## pseudomugil (Aug 12, 2013)

LidijaPN said:


> So some people today have suggested my tank is not scaped nicely enough. These people must now face my wrath. This tank is a vision of artistic..... lol nope they’re super right, the tank is literally a plant farm.


Who's hassling you!? I'll send them a strongly worded letter! All sorts of shade couched in academic language. Heads will spin!

More seriously, I love how lush your tank is and it's really fun vicariously watching it evolve.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Mr.Submarine said:


> Good for you on holding the line regarding the scape. A tank doesn’t have to look like Takashi Amano set it up to be successful. And as you just showed, _your_ tank is achieving _your_ goals. Don’t let someone else impose constraints on you that you don’t want.
> 
> I have been running a 10g for a few months just to see if I can not kill the plants and fish, and secondarily to (re-) learn how maintenance works and what plants I like/don’t like. I find it tough to throw any of the plants out completely, even when they grow like crazy and try to take over the entire tank (that’s you, water sprite, tall hair grass, and red root floaters!). But I did end up removing 90% of the water sprite and it felt good, just like you experienced with the hygro.


Definitely feels good to take control of a plant situation sometimes 😂 Yeah I also have trouble letting species go. But at 39 in the tank (well 38 now that hygro got executed) it does become hard to arrange them meaningfully.... I mean all joking aside I 100% agree that the tank isn’t in any way scaped. I also agree they don’t all have to be scaped. Right now I want to have maximum possible shrimp cover and I wouldn’t sacrifice that for a more elegant look. But in the long run I am starting to think about what could be better grouped or trimmed so the whole thing looks less.... haphazard 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

pseudomugil said:


> Who's hassling you!? I'll send them a strongly worded letter! All sorts of shade couched in academic language. Heads will spin!
> 
> More seriously, I love how lush your tank is and it's really fun vicariously watching it evolve.


Hahah in all seriousness I do think both points are fair. When I started putting the tank together I didn’t even have the concept of aquascaping in my mind. Most of my arrangement was gotten by someone randomly giving me a bunch of cuttings in a trade for microworms or whatever and me going hmmmm where do I stick you....... like my pogo erectus is three stems in three different spots because those three spots could be most easily cleared. That’s as far away from aquascaping as you can possibly get haha.

On the other hand I am extremely happy about how my general jumble of plants is growing and everyone in that thread was in agreement with this too... I’m getting pretty decent growth from a low tech setup. 

One thing to also consider is I have one single tank (and a jar 😅) and a serious plant hoarding problem lol.... like a half of all my plants are just one to two stems each. That doesn’t lend itself to meaningful arrangement. I’m actually newly excited about the next months now haha. Some things will probably die off or just not grow well enough, and others will propagate and become groupable..... I’m never going to aim for a manicured tank but no one was really suggesting that either. More like a... slight neatening of sorts 😊


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

I only see one reasonable path forward. You keep the "plant farm" running and you get a second tank for aquascaping!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I only see one reasonable path forward. You keep the "plant farm" running and you get a second tank for aquascaping!


You are as bad as the CO2 people!! 😂😂 ‘Come to the Dark Side!! We have cookies!!’ 🍪

In all honesty I was looking over the tank yesterday imagining how cool it would be to move everything over into a 30g or a 33 long, with allllll the mountains of understanding I’ve crammed in the last six months (mostly from all the awesome folks here, in fact 90% from you guys) and arrange everything with forethought.... bushy tangly parts and small clearings... strategic floor cover for shrimp and possible fish spawning down the road.... some level of plant grouping... a little height somewhere in the substrate, a more considered rock formation... I was thinking it would be cool in a really long tank to arrange them by color, starting from the AR and red lotus and going through browns, purples and dark greens down to the super light green side of pogo erectus at the other far end.....

A shallower tank would definitely be easier to light and to work with.....

One day I will definitely make it happen.

Until then you get to look at my messy unshaven unbrushed morning bed head mess of a farm tank 😂 But hey the baby shrimpies are popping up more and more often.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Tonight, on The Pickle Files.... 

Literally no news. There it is. Things are growing. One ramshorn mysteriously died. Others seem well so it might just be a random thing.

I can’t wait to give it back it’s proper light... hopefully soon. Tomorrow I’m setting up the dinkiest homemade CO2 bucket for the pogos, who have today officially outgrown their nursery tub. Will document this momentous occasion. Hopefully not with a momentous explosion.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

To be honest, for a plant grow-out tank, CO2 would be pretty awesome. But your light might become a bottleneck. And if you had tried CO2 from the get-go without figuring out first that you were under-dosing your ferts, you might've been battling massive algae issues.

You picklescape is looking pretty good! Are you going to try adding a berried shrimp to it sometime?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> To be honest, for a plant grow-out tank, CO2 would be pretty awesome. But your light might become a bottleneck. And if you had tried CO2 from the get-go without figuring out first that you were under-dosing your ferts, you might've been battling massive algae issues.
> 
> You picklescape is looking pretty good! Are you going to try adding a berried shrimp to it sometime?


I think you are very right about that. In fact it is my theory (which I cannot 100% confirm but it kinda makes sense) that almost everyone who comes here going ‘MASSIVE ALGAE PROBLEM, HAELP!’ is running CO2. I have heard it said that low tech is far more forgiving towards rookie mistakes because everything goes so much slower so you have time to figure things out.

I’m really surprised there isn’t a bigger low tech subculture. It’s a different way to run a tank for sure but not nearly as limiting as people seem to think and definitely more forgiving... all the ‘whoops there was a power cut so my light was accidentally on all night and now my tank is an algae farm’ things just don’t happen... snails are happier... you don’t risk gassing anyone... it is less gear and less expense and less stuff to store away and you don’t have to figure out what an ‘inline diffuser reactor solenoid pump’ is (I know that’s not a thing, haha).

And because everything is in overdrive, exactly as you say, then the light has to be better, and the ferts have to be more precise, you probably dose EI, then you have to do bigger water changes, meaning I’d need more distilled water, probably have to get an RO unit, then you’re getting a massive water storage bin.... it’s just a very different way to run a tank.

Honestly even the idea that ‘nothing looks right without CO2’ is not something I really agree with... Yes plants with CO2 look ‘their best’. But that best is sometimes almost unnaturally good. If you look at nature not everything is thriving perfectly.... something is growing in too much shade, something is getting nibbled by pests, something is growing straight up through concrete... this variety of nature appeals to me more than having a bunch of absolutely perfect plants that all look like they’re going to the Miss Universe competition to compete in the plant section.

Anyway I wish low tech got more respect. Thank you for coming to my TED talk 😂

It is my plan to try Pickled Shrimp but I’m not sure when.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Ok, you've earned your rant 😃 

...now back to reality


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

To be fair on the other side. I'm running my tank with the same CO2 yeast reactor you're about to embark on, which has a pretty negligible cost. And it's pretty hard to gas your tank with one of those, just gotta aerate properly at night. Just as you're dialling in your ferts from too low to just right, I'm starting to dial in from EI to just right. You get punished with stunted growth, I get punished with algae.
That being said, I'm contemplating trying a small Caridina shrimp tank next and that will definitely be low-tech. I don't really want to be trimming plants and moss every week with sensitive animals and complicated water.

With mixing distilled water with your tap water, have you tried running tap water through a Brita filter instead? I've been able to reduce my incoming TDS that way when I need to. Brita filters essentially have carbon and negative ion exchange beads inside them so they filter some chlorine (I would still use dechlorinator) and some calcium as well.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> You are as bad as the CO2 people!! [emoji23][emoji23] ‘Come to the Dark Side!! We have cookies!!’ [emoji514]


Wait, why would you not want cookies?!?! I’m almost offended by this idea! [emoji23]

I’m not sure low tech tanks are less common, or a smaller subculture, than high tech. Most hobbyists I know run low tech, but in the forums, or on fb and ig, the high tech tanks definitely get more attention. Which isn’t that surprising, all those big colorful stem plants, fancy lights and slick looking stainless co2 systems. Often many people are drawn into the hobby by the beauty of those high tech tanks.

Damn, accidentally hit reply when I dropped my phone. I’ll edit the rest of my thoughts in


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> To be fair on the other side. I'm running my tank with the same CO2 yeast reactor you're about to embark on, which has a pretty negligible cost. And it's pretty hard to gas your tank with one of those, just gotta aerate properly at night. Just as you're dialling in your ferts from too low to just right, I'm starting to dial in from EI to just right. You get punished with stunted growth, I get punished with algae.
> That being said, I'm contemplating trying a small Caridina shrimp tank next and that will definitely be low-tech. I don't really want to be trimming plants and moss every week with sensitive animals and complicated water.
> 
> With mixing distilled water with your tap water, have you tried running tap water through a Brita filter instead? I've been able to reduce my incoming TDS that way when I need to. Brita filters essentially have carbon and negative ion exchange beads inside them so they filter some chlorine (I would still use dechlorinator) and some calcium as well.


I don't really count the DIY CO2 setups as 'real CO2', and I think the Big CO2 employees like @Asteroid up there don't either  You can't dial in that sweet sweet 1 point pH drop.

I do think for shrimp and snails low tech is probably easier.... I genuinely don't have anything against CO2 tanks, in case that needs pointing out hahahah. I just want more space for a sort of 'live and let live' approach......? I don't think anyone with a low tech tank ever came up to a person with a high tech tank and told them they should switch. We're cool with Big CO2 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

johnson18 said:


> Wait, why would you not want cookies?!?! I’m almost offended by this idea! [emoji23]
> 
> I’m not sure low tech tanks are less common, or a smaller subculture, than high tech. Most hobbyists I know run low tech, but in the forums, or on fb and ig, the high tech tanks definitely get more attention. Which isn’t that surprising, all those big colorful stem plants, fancy lights and slick looking stainless co2 systems. Often many people are drawn into the hobby by the beauty of those high tech tanks.
> 
> Damn, accidentally hit reply when I dropped my phone. I’ll edit the rest of my thoughts in


Of course I want cookies!!! Everyone wants cookies, that's why the Dark Side is so seductive and insidious.

Of course if you counted up all the tanks out there the vast majority would be without CO2. I guess I'm thinking more of the 'hard core population'. Us who hang around here and spend a lot of our time and energy on our tanks and sort of define ourselves as serious aquarists as opposed to just being a person who happens to have a fish tank with maybe a betta or some guppies in it.... Trying to get stuff to grow, breeding things, knowing what FOWLR means, that sort of person 

I'm not even talking about attention, high tech tanks are often glorious works of art and legit deserve to be admired as such. (Though there is a vast number of them that look next to indistinguishable from each other but that's a different pet peeve of mine that we can save for a different TED talk). I'm more thinking along the lines of why don't we appreciate difference and weirdness and experimentation a bit more. We have had a few people by now come to the forum and show us pics of plants that by 'general consensus' can only be grown in high tech tanks, growing in low tech setups and looking pretty darn good. And yet every time someone posts about 'why is my plant like this' invariably there will be a deluge of 'you gotta run CO2, will never get decent plants without CO2, can't have reds without CO2, lucky if you see any growth without CO2, your buces will always be green unless CO2, you can only have anubias and java ferns if you don't run CO2' etc etc etc. There's a bit of a 'go CO2 or go home' vibe and while CO2 is definitely a viable and very cool option for many people, I'd want to see and hear more from those people who are getting interesting results in low tech setups.

I feel like it would encourage people to set up a greater variety of different sorts of tanks, and try harder to get those tanks to thrive.... I think often it happens that people run into beginner troubles (maybe they haven't yet figured out ferts, like I hadn't, or their tap water is bad and they're not testing it, or they picked the wrong plants or the tank is by the window or who knows) and ask for help and get told 'nah man, it's never gonna work for you without CO2', and some will get all the extra gear and some will just give up on the whole thing.

Heck even more support for homemade CO2 setups, adding some CO2 but not going for the whole 'crank it up till the fish are gasping, then back off just a smidge' approach. I'd go for that too.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Big CO2 😂😂😂

I think there is definitely a place for both. I plan to keep my shrimp tank low tech but am looking forward to getting to compare it to my peninsula tank once I make the jump to CO2. Especially since I used similar plants in both to start. 

I would feel like a fraud calling myself a serious aquarist though!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Big CO2 😂😂😂
> 
> I think there is definitely a place for both. I plan to keep my shrimp tank low tech but am looking forward to getting to compare it to my peninsula tank once I make the jump to CO2. Especially since I used similar plants in both to start.
> 
> I would feel like a fraud calling myself a serious aquarist though!


Hey we're here every single day, we're serious aquarists. Nobody says you had to be good to be serious about it lol. We're definitely doing our best.

Also if I hear another person saying 'plants are mostly made of carbon' lol. Like so am I, and I do pretty well without CO2 injection 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

The Big Boy has been assembled!!! It is already throwing bubbles into the water bottle. I’m about to join The Big Boys CO2 club 🤩 Junior division!! 😂


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

grabbing some popcorn for the show.... 🍿


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Inner tube diameter is 1/4’’, thing is throwing out one fat bubble every 4 seconds or so for now. I’m curious to see how it will be doing tomorrow. I did the gelatine on the bottom thing. This is actually weirdly exciting 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Can’t sleep wondering what my yeast is doing. 

Hope the silicone cures by tomorrow.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Can’t sleep wondering what my yeast is doing.
> 
> Hope the silicone cures by tomorrow.


Psst, you can also use a hot glue gun, which sets instantly 😉


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Psst, you can also use a hot glue gun, which sets instantly 😉


Ooooh I was wondering if hot glue was water/aquarium/critter-safe!!! Good to know!!!!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Awwww look, ma!! I’ve got my first algae!! ♥

The AR really is specifically algae prone. Or it’s just the fact it’s practically touching the surface... It’s growing out of a ceramic ring because it’s still in the grow out phase from emersed so I will pluck it out and clean it gently tomorrow at water change. I’m looking over the rest of the tank and don’t see anything yet, will keep an eye out tho.

Big Boy is throwing out about a bubble per second now, so he definitely geared out during the night. Can’t wait to hook it all up when I get back from skating.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> I don't really count the DIY CO2 setups as 'real CO2', and I think the Big CO2 employees like @Asteroid up there don't either  You can't dial in that sweet sweet 1 point pH drop.


Dinky++



LidijaPN said:


> Also if I hear another person saying 'plants are mostly made of carbon' lol. Like so am I, and I do pretty well without CO2 injection 😂


*Carbon Percent*
Plants 44%
Human 18%

So yeah, makes sense that your doing OK, your plants....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Dinky++
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol I love the designations of Dinky, Dinky +, and Dinky ++.

Anyway Dinky ++ bucket has been launched!!!! Darned dirt has been settling for more than a day and is still murky as all hell but I was pleasantly surprised how clear the water was in the baby pogo nursery tub today so I’m hoping over the next week this one will settle too. 

I transferred over every single pogo, even the ones that were just the root nub and one tiny 5mm stalklet. No Pogo Left Behind. My idea was to leave the nursery running for the tiny ones, the ones that had been floating in the tank, now that the bigger ones have moved on to the Bucket ++. But I didn’t have a light for a second grow out container and husband started panicking about the ‘constant and rampant proliferation of my mad scientist projects in a living space which is objectively too small for them’ which, you know, fair.

So I shovinated all the pogos into the Bucket ++, the mini ones and the maxi ones. Interesting to see that over the.... what has it been, a couple of weeks? Since I got the pogo TC? The planted ones have grown massively, the bigger ones are almost 10cm tall, and the floating ones haven’t died but have definitely not progressed in absolutely ANY way. No size increase no root development.

This makes me wonder further about the notion that plants largely don’t care if they’re taking nutrients through the roots or the leaves. It goes in line with a few other threads on this forum and others (don’t worry everyone, I’d never DREAM of posting at another fishy forum!! But one may read clandestinely from time to time) where people have done somewhat extensive experimentation trying to get different plants to grow this way and that and that most frequently best results were derived with strongly ferted/active substrate and lean, almost bare water column. 

Someone pointed out that you can put literally as much, say, iron or whatever into root tabs and stick it in the ground and plants will not freak out, but if you doubled or tripled EI dosage of ferts in the water column you would have stunting riots from many of the plants.... so it isn’t apparently quite fair to say that it doesn’t matter where the ferts are placed... It’s like roots can decide how much to take in and not let themselves get overwhelmed, whereas leaves don’t really know how to do that.

All very interesting stuff. I’m pretty convinced my next tank will be a 30 long or a 33 but with a Dinky ++ setup, definitely bags of dirt under the sand and maybe even homemade CO2.

On the homemade CO2 thing, it’s working I think??? Bubbles are coming out quite fast now. It’s definitely not managing to diffuse everything it makes into the water as occasionally I hear a BLOBITYBLOBB sound of a large CO2 bubble escaping under the bell... Maybe I put in too much yeast? Next time I’ll try less than a whole pound. (I jest I jest, I added two teaspoons maybe. Perhaps one would do). Anyway the CO2 is definitely getting made.... is this ok to keep in a bedroom? Can’t imagine it would do any harm but might as well ask to be safe. I’m trying to keep it out of the way.

Anyway just as I proudly showed off my first algae, I look for it again and it’s gone. Just a few tiny strands left on one single leaf. I guess someone passed by and mowed them all down. 

The two baby shrimpies whose existence has been confirmed are getting bigger. One random piece of crystalwort is hovering mid-aquarium on a single long and impossibly thin strand of hair algae, like the weirdest balloon on a string. I kinda don’t want to disturb it but it will probably get wrecked at water change tomorrow.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

I'm picturing your husband over in the corner furiously writing in his journal 😂

Looking forward to following along with this dinky ++ experiment!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Lol I love the designations of Dinky, Dinky +, and Dinky ++.
> 
> Anyway Dinky ++ bucket has been launched!!!! Darned dirt has been settling for more than a day and is still murky as all hell but I was pleasantly surprised how clear the water was in the baby pogo nursery tub today so I’m hoping over the next week this one will settle too.
> 
> ...


Thing is your not realizing that ferts in the water column go everywhere even through the substrate to the roots. There is no stopping it. There are a ton of high-end aquarist dosing the water column heavily including Tom Barr the inventor of EI. There have been know issues if you have hard water with heavy ferts, but that involved just a few species. Remember gregg tank as well as hendy as well. Heavy ferts, no algae, no stunting. Gregg had inert substrate for most of the time. I don't remember what hendy had.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Thing is your not realizing that ferts in the water column go everywhere even through the substrate to the roots. There is no stopping it. There are a ton of high-end aquarist dosing the water column heavily including Tom Barr the inventor of EI. There have been know issues if you have hard water with heavy ferts, but that involved just a few species. Remember gregg tank as well as hendy as well. Heavy ferts, no algae, no stunting. Gregg had inert substrate for most of the time. I don't remember what hendy had.


Yes I’m sure those are amazing and work great. But I’m talking about low tech. Again and again I see snippets of people who run extremely good looking low tech tanks - my ultimate goal, for better or worse - with beautifully developing plants that by ‘common wisdom’ shouldn’t be able to live in low tech. And they all mention the same factors - lower temp, rich substrate, lean column.

I think you’re under the mistaken impression that I think there is something wrong with how high tech tanks grow plants. I don’t. They grow them great. You guys all have beautiful tanks. I have no beef with any of that.

I am specifically looking for the best possible way for a low tech tank to grow the best, most plants it can. My whole quest has nothing at all to do with CO2 and high tech tanks. It’s a different endeavor.

I read long threads of people who seem to know stuff (like Tom Barr himself is commenting in the thread type) that seem to have discovered some of these interesting interactions. There’s more there than just this simple recipe of ‘EI, one point drop, badabing-badaboom.’


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I'm picturing your husband over in the corner furiously writing in his journal 😂
> 
> Looking forward to following along with this dinky ++ experiment!


He should take up journaling for sure. Would soothe his nerves amid all these high tech buckets.

Guess how he feels about these for example


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

"FFS The pickle jars are multiplying.... uhhgh!" ?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> "FFS The pickle jars are multiplying.... uhhgh!" ?


Yappity yap. First he was like ok I guess a plant on the table is fine but then there was a lot of indignation when one jar became two.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I mean who wouldn’t find this aesthetically pleasing?!? I really don’t understand what he’s complaining about. 🤔


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Me: MUST - SAVE - EVERY - POGO! What if we bought an extra cheap light for the nursery tub?
Husband (Looking at overgrown tank with zero open floorspace): But why do you need forty of them?
Me: .........reasons?
Husband: But where will you put them?
Me: ......................places?

I mean in truth I want like one or two pogos for the tank. The rest I was going to trade on the local group but honestly I don’t know what to trade for as I am literally chock full. I might actually ask the LFS if they’d buy them off me, if they grow nice. Or sell a few through the group.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Has your husband received sainthood status yet? Well he deserves it.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Has your husband received sainthood status yet? Well he deserves it.


Yes, yes, I’m terrible, I know 😂 And yet somehow he didn’t seem to manage to find anyone better for himself during the last.... what, 25 years? So yeah, sucks to be him 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Actually I’m going to expand upon this because it’s something that irks me in my daily life. People should be allowed to have things, and pursue their interests. It’s not ‘saintly’ to accept that.

When hubs wants the new iWatch even though there’s nothing wrong with the old iWatch, I’m like why not, treat yourself. When he wants the new phone with even tinier pixels or whatever I’m like the difference is indiscernible to the human eye, but what’s a thousand dollars compared to human happiness. When he wants a tv large enough to watch from space in a family where literally no one watches tv (it’s for gaming), I’m like ok weird but knock yourself out. When he wants two different consoles and two different VR headsets, I’m like ok, that will be fun I guess.

And then it’s me and my bucket who are the villains! 😂 I swear it’s just because it doesn’t look sleek enough. If Apple sold iBuckets, we’d have five already.

Hrumphhh.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

There definitely needs to be room for each partner to explore their interests, even if those interests are muddy and involve lots of buckets and jars (which are, like, obviously not tanks). 

I'm on team bucket.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> There definitely needs to be room for each partner to explore their interests, even if those interests are muddy and involve lots of buckets and jars (which are, like, obviously not tanks).
> 
> I'm on team bucket.


I swear, man. Buckets for life.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Listen, here's some tough love. Ditch the bucket and setup a proper small glass tank with a small HOB and be able to observe what the co2 does. That muddy bucket with no filter, etc is not going to show you anything IMO. I don't even thing urea dosing will help.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Listen, here's some tough love. Ditch the bucket and setup a proper small glass tank with a small HOB and be able to observe what the co2 does. That muddy bucket with no filter, etc is not going to show you anything IMO. I don't even thing urea dosing will help.


I appreciate the fatherly approach but you should have seen the muddy tub they started out in, which grew them out pretty darn well. 

And even if it fails terribly, honestly that’s totally fine. You guys have decades in the hobby, I have months. It’s cool to learn from other people’s experiences but there is really no substitute for personal tinkering. We’ve already had this debate over in the algae infested thread.... getting new people into the hobby is not as simple as giving them the blueprints to where you are right now and saying ‘just do this’. We need to get there on our own. 

TL;DR - leave my bucket alone 😂

Either way I’ll be faithful with the updates, so you’ll know if they crash and burn! ♥


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> I appreciate the fatherly approach but you should have seen the muddy tub they started out in, which grew them out pretty darn well.


Guess I missed that part. Hey I'm pretty sure I'm the one that put the diy co2 thing in your head so I feel I deserve the right to give fatherly advise, LOL. Just saying it's hard to "see" from above in a bucket as opposed to observing from glass and having flow, etc with the co2. Sorry I'm not telling you what you want to hear, just being honest.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Guess I missed that part. Hey I'm pretty sure I'm the one that put the diy co2 thing in your head so I feel I deserve the right to give fatherly advise, LOL. Just saying it's hard to "see" from above in a bucket as opposed to observing from glass and having flow, etc with the co2. Sorry I'm not telling you what you want to hear, just being honest.


Naw man I don’t have a specific thing I ‘want to hear’. And I truly and genuinely appreciate any input. And you totally gave me the dinky + idea.

I’m just saying two things- one, for me ‘just get a small tank with a small HOB’ is again spending more money, fighting with husband over where to put it, I don’t have a massive stash of unused tank stuff just sitting around to draw on..... I have no place to store it once I’m done with the experiment.... the bucket is one I already use for the tank so it was already there, and it will go back into standard rotation when it’s done. When the pogos are big and strong and purple 

Second- I have genuine curiosity about what’s possible at the edges of generally accepted practices. I KNOW your way would work. I don’t quite know if my way will. This is what makes my way more enticing honestly 😂 It’s an experiment. I can see them growing quite well. I’m already fascinated by the difference between the ones that were left floating in my main tank and the ones I planted in the no filter muddy tupperware with zero other care except light and earth on the bottom. The difference in size is like 5-6 times at least.

Anyway I don’t in any way want to stop you from posting.... just trying to explain the rationale behind using your advice in a .... somewhat selective manner  It is NOT that I don’t respect your experience or think you don’t know what you’re talking about, that would be just silly. It’s just that I have somewhat different goals.

Grow out nursery:


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Naw man I don’t have a specific thing I ‘want to hear’. And I truly and genuinely appreciate any input. And you totally gave me the dinky + idea.
> 
> I’m just saying two things- one, for me ‘just get a small tank with a small HOB’ is again spending more money, fighting with husband over where to put it, I don’t have a massive stash of unused tank stuff just sitting around to draw on..... I have no place to store it once I’m done with the experiment.... the bucket is one I already use for the tank so it was already there, and it will go back into standard rotation when it’s done. When the pogos are big and strong and purple
> 
> ...


So to me there are two major influences in this hobby. Walstad and ADA. The two couldn't be further apart. The former is more about growing plants (farmer) and the latter is more about layout, aesthetics (scaper). It's not a coincedence that Walstad's book is called _The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ and ADA has their _Nature World Books_ (eye-candy aquascapes)

Both have their place in the hobby, most fall somewhere in-between, I'm definitely more on the ADA side. My wife would never let me have buckets and other things around the house, definitely not in a bedroom. I do have a few tubs that house some extra anubias, etc that are in a back room. I can't even have equipment showing or she'll freak. My main tank is usually in the kitchen so it has to "fit in". I remember when I used to grow lots of stems and they would redden up on the top, she would comment "nice flowers" I would simply say "yes dear" 

When I post in your dinky threads, I'll make sure I put my Walstad hat on. 😃


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> So to me there are two major influences in this hobby. Walstad and ADA. The two couldn't be further apart. The former is more about growing plants (farmer) and the latter is more about layout, aesthetics (scaper). It's not a coincedence that Walstad's book is called _The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ and ADA has their _Nature World Books_ (eye-candy aquascapes)
> 
> Both have their place in the hobby, most fall somewhere in-between, I'm definitely more on the ADA side. My wife would never let me have buckets and other things around the house, definitely not in a bedroom. I do have a few tubs that house some extra anubias, etc that are in a back room. I can't even have equipment showing or she'll freak. My main tank is usually in the kitchen so it has to "fit in". I remember when I used to grow lots of stems and they would redden up on the top, she would comment "nice flowers" I would simply say "yes dear"
> 
> When I post in your dinky threads, I'll make sure I put my Walstad hat on. 😃


Does it help that it’s not HIS bedroom? Hahah. (We have a weird temporary arrangement because of some health issues our kid is having). I specifically put it where he won’t encounter it. Man wish I had a back room, it would be quite the lab 🧪 🧫 🔬 ♥

Anyway for sure, gotta keep them hats separate! Walstad hat:








ADA hat:


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

My wife wasn't thrilled about the 44 gallon Brute trash can on wheels I brought into the house. It's for keeping and mixing RO water for weekly water changes. But she's kinda let it go, as long as I wheel it into the (too small) laundry room and tuck it mostly out of the way.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> My wife wasn't thrilled about the 44 gallon Brute trash can on wheels I brought into the house. It's for keeping and mixing RO water for weekly water changes. But she's kinda let it go, as long as I wheel it into the (too small) laundry room and tuck it mostly out of the way.


For sure, it’s the married way  Each side gives what it can.... now the true winners at life are these few dudes who managed to rope the wives in on the hobby..... Now that’s goalz 🤩


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Does it help that it’s not HIS bedroom? Hahah. (We have a weird temporary arrangement because of some health issues our kid is having). I specifically put it where he won’t encounter it. Man wish I had a back room, it would be quite the lab 🧪 🧫 🔬 ♥
> 
> Anyway for sure, gotta keep them hats separate! Walstad hat:
> View attachment 1041950
> ...


I think your calling me a Prima Donna from he look of those hats


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> I think your calling me a Prima Donna from he look of those hats


ahahhhahaha omg fragile masculinity much 😂 😂 😂 

Hold on, here's a proper man's ADA hat! Also yes this is exactly how I imagine you to look hahahah. And I've just spent an entirely surprising amount of time googling 'swanky men's hats'


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> ahahhhahaha omg fragile masculinity much 😂 😂 😂
> 
> Hold on, here's a proper man's ADA hat! Also yes this is exactly how I imagine you to look hahahah. And I've just spent an entirely surprising amount of time googling 'swanky men's hats'


You nailed it! Only I don't wear the hat when I'm working on my topless, rimless designer tank. I might bump it into my suspended lighting and it might fall in and disintegrate from the pressurized co2 water.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> You nailed it! Only I don't wear the hat when I'm working on my topless, rimless designer tank. I might bump it into my suspended lighting and it might fall in and disintegrate from the pressurized co2 water.


Like a poor eroding snail.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

growing baby shrimpy on really quite decidedly blue buce leaf. I think he molted, he looks definitely bigger. The embers were almost circling him but didn’t show any personal interest.

Ignore the disintegrating meta in the background. She is giving up on life and focusing her energy instead on sending out two baby shoots from her head. We’ll see if they fare better.

In other news, my darned java ferns are struggling. Sure they not missing CO2?? They haven’t been here long but it feels like they’re less than happy. New leaves come out with that nice dark green spear tip but it gets lost after a while. Open to any non-gaseous suggestions.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Go baby shrimp go!

For as easy as java ferns are supposed to be they don't look good in any of our 3 tanks. Yours actually look better than mine. Ours have a lot of brown spots.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Go baby shrimp go!
> 
> For as easy as java ferns are supposed to be they don't look good in any of our 3 tanks. Yours actually look better than mine. Ours have a lot of brown spots.


I see a lot of people with rough looking java ferns. Mine just have lots of brown nicks along the edges. It’s annoying. I know they take long to adapt so maybe it’s just that. Leaves do look really great when they first grow. But then they get all raggedy.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

Is it too late to get in on the hat game? I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out which is which...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Is it too late to get in on the hat game? I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out which is which...
> 
> View attachment 1041990
> View attachment 1041991


Ahahahahhaha ok I assure you that both @Asteroid and I are deeply offended at your hat choices!! 🤭 .....unless I misunderstood which hat is for whom 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

The lampeyes are so pretty even the husband likes them. He calls them ‘the little jewel fish’.








Meta is trying to phoenix itself into some new shoots, which gives her a somewhat funny hairstyle for the moment. I’m not sure entirely what’s going on there. First she was growing straight up skinny as a worm, then she flared out like a lion’s mane and looked pretty good in that specific segment, now she looks all weird and messy again and is letting out shoots. 

She is also very near the surface so I will probably shorten her a little and replant her to give the shoots more time to develop.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Hubby is coming around!

You need to play it like my wife did. She knew she could hook me with the more technical/research side of the hobby. Now she gets to sit back and watch while I do all the work ha.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Hubby is coming around!
> 
> You need to play it like my wife did. She knew she could hook me with the more technical/research side of the hobby. Now she gets to sit back and watch while I do all the work ha.


Only way I could hook him is if the fish learned to play Gears of War.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

haha, if your husband loves Apple stuff (like me!), then maybe he'll like the clean ADA stuff and their fancy iwagumis. In fact, you could... make a pogo iwagumi 😉


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> haha, if your husband loves Apple stuff (like me!), then maybe he'll like the clean ADA stuff and their fancy iwagumis. In fact, you could... make a pogo iwagumi 😉


That would be gorgeous with all the purple!!!

But we only have, like, one position in the apartment where a tank can fit so I’d have to get rid of my jungle farmscape....

But yeah hubs would definitely like an elegant Amano iwagumi more.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> But we only have, like, one position in the apartment where a tank can fit


Where there's a will there's a way!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Where there's a will there's a way!


Where there’s a will, there’s MTS 😂


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Where there’s a will, there’s MTS 😂


My name is Will; can confirm this is correct! 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Sooo.... you know how I have to pepper this peaceful and laid back journal with an occasional life-and-death crisis to entertain you, dear reader? Well here it comes.

MY POGOS ARE MELLLLTIIIIIIINGGGG!!! Like, Wicked Witch of the West level melting. And guess who I’m going to blame for it. 

That’s right, CO2!! It is the only difference between the Dirt Tub they were absolutely thriving in and the Bucket ++ that I moved them into. Same dirt, same water (tap, pH 8, gH 6.5-7, kH 4.5), Primed, same light at same height (bucket is taller but I lowered the light so the distance between light and plants is the same)..... only difference is CO2. And the fact that they got moved, but why would that melt them.

When I saw the meltage I took the proscribed appropriate steps:

1) Panic

2) Do a water change (changed out between one half and one third of the water, not sure, with dechlorinated tap)

3) Pull out best looking pogos and plant them in the main tank. (I took four, they had some melt but overall still look good, I cleared a spot for them, we’ll see how they do. They’re big enough to stand a chance now I feel)

4) Test water. My first thought was maybe the earth is leaching something but ammonia is 0.25. Then I tested pH and it was at 6.2 😳 From pH 8.0 tap. After 1/3 at least water change. That means my monster of a CO2 system creates like a 2 point drop. 

Of course in hindsight that’s not overly shocking, it’s a 4 gallon bucket, not completely full. So we’re talking about around 3 gallon of water. Still I didn’t really expect that the Yeasty Boys were going to be so goshdarned productive.... I have never heard of anyone getting too much CO2 from a DIY system, nor CO2 being harmful to anything but critters.... 

Anyway I have no idea what I can even do to help them, my poor Wicked Witch Pogostemons, except do a few more water changes and see if things stabilize a bit.... I do take out the bell during the night. I wonder if I should take it out sooner/ put it in later.

Stupid CO2 I knew it was trouble 😑

In other news, I had to trim back the AR to stop it leaving the tank, limno is seriously annoying me with how fast it grows, eichhornia is shooting up but not making any side shoots which I really wish it would. Meta is making 3-4 side shoots so the meta battle is not yet lost. I would really like to see another berried shrimp but nothing so far.


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

I think once you get into injecting CO2, you also need some water movement or aeriation at least. Do you have anything like that in the bucket? Otherwise the CO2 can build up too high.

But, I've never heard of too much CO2 leading to melt. But, there are a lot of things I don't know.

I'm jealous of your vigorous AR. Mine just sits these days. It was growing quick for a while, but since the extended vacation / lack of maintenance, it seems stunted or tired.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> I think once you get into injecting CO2, you also need some water movement or aeriation at least. Do you have anything like that in the bucket? Otherwise the CO2 can build up too high.
> 
> But, I've never heard of too much CO2 leading to melt. But, there are a lot of things I don't know.
> 
> I'm jealous of your vigorous AR. Mine just sits these days. It was growing quick for a while, but since the extended vacation / lack of maintenance, it seems stunted or tired.


No real movement in the bucket, because it never occurred to me the CO2 could become dangerously high... when you look at it it doesn’t look like it could go dangerously high lol. It might be the fact that it’s a tissue culture plant, I do find them a little more delicate than regular plants, until they get well and truly established. 

Maybe it’s not even the CO2 per se that’s causing melt, but the massive change in pH. No idea. Resident Big CO2 representatives will drop by soon to set us straight I’m sure.

My AR is still converting and hasn’t been with me long.... maybe it will also run out of steam. Everyone lists it as a slow growing stem but I’ve been surprised so far how energetic it is being both in the jar and in the tank. My one AR mini has put out a pair of stunted-looking leaves and seems a bit stuck, but I genuinely don’t understand how it’s supposed to keep growing but stay ‘mini’. Is this when I prune it to make a new one? It’s around 4 inches tall...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Picklescape update!!! It may not be a tank, but it still loves attention ♥

I tidied it up a little and realized the ludwigia super red is doing weiiiiird things in there. I feel like with a nudge and a tweak I could get it to thrive in the picklescape whereas getting it to prosper in the main tank is so far seeming difficult.

I took this pic of the pickled AR during water change to show it’s properly magenta, because the weak light makes it look a weird color in most pics. Top side of the submersed leaves is a nice mustardy yellow. In the main tank top side is more reddish. I attribute this also to the terrible pickle light.

I was hoping Picklescape could get its good light back soon but now with the pogocalypse in progress I’m not sure how that will go....








Anyway I trimmed everything back a little and tried to untangle some of the ludwigias (their stems are still very skinny and tangle easily. I took the excess ones out and put them in with the suffering pogostemons simply to have another indicator of how things react to my monstrous CO2 maker.








Many of the ludwigias are flat out green, especially the ones lower down.... but as they reach the surface they do start to redden up somewhat. I’m hoping with strategic clipping AND the good light back on the Picklescape there’s hope for red ludwigia yet. Leaves are growing pretty small at the moment but at one moment they were growing bigger so I know that’s doable too.








Pickled buce adapting nicely and putting out some interesting new leaves. (Damage on older leaves was from before I got it).








And of course Chuglus, king and queen of the Pickled Lands. I’m not sure why we’re not getting any growing baby ramshorns, there’s plenty of eggs and tiny speck babies but so far none have made it... I’m going to start feeding the jar something better than flakes and see if that helps.
















Finally not a jar thing but I really really like how the AR green is converting. It’s growing much slower than the red, internodal distance is surprisingly tight, long beautifully defined leaves and a somewhat thicker than usual stem for a stem plant, it’s everything hygro polysperma ended up not being for me... hope it grows out and continues to prosper.


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

I really like the picklescape! I've always wanted to do something like that. Right now I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to use my big jar to hatch daphnia, but maybe I'll plant it after.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> I really like the picklescape! I've always wanted to do something like that. Right now I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to use my big jar to hatch daphnia, but maybe I'll plant it after.


I love the Picklescape! It gives room for small, easy experiments, it’s much easier maintenance (and also sort of semi-optional because nothing major is living in there), it’s a great place to stick a random baby plantlet that came floating up from somewhere and you know you have no hope planting it at the bottom of the big tank.... you can switch up its look quickly and painlessly, you can move it without grief, it’s really quite amazing. It’s also growing an absolute ton of random infusoria which is super fun to observe. I’ve definitely recognized daphnia, paramecium, copepods, some little wormy dudes, and there’s more I’m sure.

Can’t wait to see yours!!!


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Wow, that's a crazy pH drop! You absolutely can get too much CO2 from a DIY system but the only way to lower it is to either take out your diffuser early (like you're doing) or remake the sugar solution with either more gelatin or less starting yeast. It's also sensitive to temperature, higher temps will increase the bubble count. And sensitive to shaking, that can increase bubble count too. I leave my CO2 running 24/7 (with aeration) and managed to dial in my recipe to handle the tank but it was definitely a trial and error thing. For a 5 gallon tank it was 250ml sugar, 250ml water, 1 tablespoon gelatin powder melted together in a pot and then refrigerated. Then 5 grams of yeast mixed with ~1 liter of warm water and 1.5 teaspoons of sugar poured in on top of that when it's set. To sit in a room that's consistently 20-22C, might need to adjust the recipe based on your room's temp.
I would imagine water that acidic can't make for happy plants though, but that might be where someone with experience with a pressurised system that offgassed into their tank would be able to speak with more authority.

That AR green looks handsome!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Wow, that's a crazy pH drop! You absolutely can get too much CO2 from a DIY system but the only way to lower it is to either take out your diffuser early (like you're doing) or remake the sugar solution with either more gelatin or less starting yeast. It's also sensitive to temperature, higher temps will increase the bubble count. And sensitive to shaking, that can increase bubble count too. I leave my CO2 running 24/7 (with aeration) and managed to dial in my recipe to handle the tank but it was definitely a trial and error thing. For a 5 gallon tank it was 250ml sugar, 250ml water, 1 tablespoon gelatin powder melted together in a pot and then refrigerated. Then 5 grams of yeast mixed with ~1 liter of warm water and 1.5 teaspoons of sugar poured in on top of that when it's set. To sit in a room that's consistently 20-22C, might need to adjust the recipe based on your room's temp.
> I would imagine water that acidic can't make for happy plants though, but that might be where someone with experience with a pressurised system that offgassed into their tank would be able to speak with more authority.
> 
> That AR green looks handsome!


Yeah I used your recipe almost exactly except I didn’t really measure out the yeast but it was like a teaspoon and a bit. It’s calmed down A LOT now but the initial burst while it was still eating the non-gelatinous sugar was very explosive. Now it’s much calmer, I’ll measure pH again to see..... live and learn, live and learn....

They never get shaken. Room is a little warmer than yours.... I’ll keep watching them now that I understand what different levels of intensity bring. Also I made my gel with Agar Agar because I didn’t have actual gelatine but I’m guessing that’s fine.....

How long do yours last?


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah I used your recipe almost exactly except I didn’t really measure out the yeast but it was like a teaspoon and a bit. It’s calmed down A LOT now but the initial burst while it was still eating the non-gelatinous sugar was very explosive. Now it’s much calmer, I’ll measure pH again to see..... live and learn, live and learn....
> 
> They never get shaken. Room is a little warmer than yours.... I’ll keep watching them now that I understand what different levels of intensity bring. Also I made my gel with Agar Agar because I didn’t have actual gelatine but I’m guessing that’s fine.....
> 
> How long do yours last?


Ahh, maybe next time cut down on raw sugar dose but good to see it's calmed down now! Interesting, I just read up on agar agar and it's like vegan gelatine. The yeast might or might not be able to eat through it at a different speed so keep an eye on it I guess. I initially used gelatine sheets (3 sheets) but moved to powder to be more easily adjustable, it's a little harder to mix though. My concoction typically lasts around 4 weeks.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I am sad. I am sad sad saaaaaad. 

So around three quarters of my pogos are gone. Like just completely disintegrated to nothing. Which, you know, sucks. 

The remainder is still holding on. I thought that now the CO2 comes out in, like, one bubble from the tube every 12 seconds it won't be so overwhelming any more.... but that apparently is also wrong. When I tested pH again yesterday at the end of the day it was off the charts again. Even though I have been leaving it out for much longer. I thought maybe it's an issue of not degassing properly during the night.... so I tested in the morning and it does off-gas like a whole point. But it's still not enough because it drives it SO HIGH during the day. Adding more gear to the bucket to get the air moving might solve something but honestly feels like a waste of time and money for an unsure result. 

So at the moment I'm contemplating do I just give up on the CO2 experiment entirely, or do I, like, let it off-gas for a few days and then literally add it for an hour or two a day only. That might give a little boost but not, like, scorch the earth. 

Anyway, there you go, lessons learned. I guess I just couldn't compute that the homemade system could produce such a difference. Nor did anyone ever mention having too much homemade CO2... I'm even using the least effective diffusion method ever.... I suppose it's the size of the container, finally. If this was hooked up to a ten gallon tank it might be working totally fine. But the 4 gallon bucket is maybe too small. Although I did hear people using DIY CO2 on their 5 gallons.... that's not miles away from my Bucket ++..... Suppose the difference there is there is a filter and that stuff so off-gassing goes more quickly. 

Well the pogos paid the price of my ignorance, I am sorry little pogos, I have failed you. 

We will see what will come of the survivors. The ones in the tank aren't doing anything much but they also aren't dying which, you know, win, at this stage. 

RIP baby pogos. Super sad. They were doing so well in their happy little tub of dirt.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Not that it's perfect method but what is the KH and PH of the bucket at max co2?


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

I'm surprised that adding CO2 had a negative effect - I've never heard of that happening before. I thought more CO2 was always better, because outside of water, plants have access to so much more CO2 then we can get into the water anyway. The only risk was to the fauna.

Anyway, sorry about your pogos. How long had they been in there? Is it possible they just melted for non-CO2 reasons? Hopefully the remaining ones live and thrive. Trust me, once they get going, you'll have new trimmings/plantlets available weekly.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> I'm surprised that adding CO2 had a negative effect - I've never heard of that happening before. I thought more CO2 was always better, because outside of water, plants have access to so much more CO2 then we can get into the water anyway. The only risk was to the fauna.
> 
> Anyway, sorry about your pogos. How long had they been in there? Is it possible they just melted for non-CO2 reasons? Hopefully the remaining ones live and thrive. Trust me, once they get going, you'll have new trimmings/plantlets available weekly.


I hope so. I think maybe the issue is that they’re tissue culture plantlets, and those just are more delicate than regulars, I’ve seen it before and other people say it too. They don’t have the same protection regularly grown plants have.

I have also never heard of it before. But there is literally zero difference between the tub they were absolutely thriving in and the bucket where they melted when I added CO2. Everything else - dirt at the bottom, from same source, same dirt in fact, same water (tap, dechlorinated), same temperature (room, around 25c), same ferts (none), same filtration (none), same light at same height from substrate. Literally can’t see a difference outside the fact that a) I moved them, very gently, and b) I added the CO2


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Not that it's perfect method but what is the KH and PH of the bucket at max co2?


PH at max was literally off the scale so I don’t know. The color was the lightest API test shows, which is 6.0? But it could have been higher but the test just doesn’t go there.

The KH of my tap (and it’s pure tap water in there) is 4.5. I can specifically measure KH in the Bucket if you think it helps? But I don’t think it would have moved, does KH move around? 

In the morning the Bucket measured around 6.8. Still low but it has offgassed a fair amount during the night, considering there is no water movement to speak of.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> PH at max was literally off the scale so I don’t know. The color was the lightest API test shows, which is 6.0? But it could have been higher but the test just doesn’t go there.
> 
> The KH of my tap (and it’s pure tap water in there) is 4.5. I can specifically measure KH in the Bucket if you think it helps? But I don’t think it would have moved, does KH move around?
> 
> In the morning the Bucket measured around 6.8. Still low but it has offgassed a fair amount during the night, considering there is no water movement to speak of.


Well let's assume the thank KH is 4.5 and the "degassed water" is PH 6.8 that would give you around 20PPM co2. If the PH did drop by 1.0 that would give you 10x co2 ppm at around 200. Don't know how much light you have, but co2 drives fert demand so without any ferts to utilize the co2 things can go south.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Well let's assume the thank KH is 4.5 and the "degassed water" is PH 6.8 that would give you around 20PPM co2. If the PH did drop by 1.0 that would give you 10x co2 ppm at around 200. Don't know how much light you have, but co2 drives fert demand so without any ferts to utilize the co2 things can go south.


Even though they’re in dirt which is supposed to have pretty good nutrients? I know it’s not aquasoil but the place I got it everything was growing super lush....

Also the symptom of this southward motion would be total meltage of entire plant?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Even though they’re in dirt which is supposed to have pretty good nutrients? I know it’s not aquasoil but the place I got it everything was growing super lush....
> 
> Also the symptom of this southward motion would be total meltage of entire plant?


Would be hard to tell what's in the dirt and weather it was sufficient. Walstad tanks have dirt but they aren't driven hard with co2. The exist on low light, low ferts, low co2. It's hard to say, I don't think co2 would kill that way alone. It's like growing java fern in low light vs high light. They don't die from the high light, they die from lack of nutrients.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Would be hard to tell what's in the dirt and weather it was sufficient. Walstad tanks have dirt but they aren't driven hard with co2. The exist on low light, low ferts, low co2. It's hard to say, I don't think co2 would kill that way alone. It's like growing java fern in low light vs high light. They don't die from the high light, they die from lack of nutrients.


Yeah that makes total sense, the java fern thing. So you’re saying fert the Bucket? I mean I can do that, I have very little to lose lol.... ferts shouldn’t hurt anything for sure.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah that makes total sense, the java fern thing. So you’re saying fert the Bucket? I mean I can do that, I have very little to lose lol.... ferts shouldn’t hurt anything for sure.


Have you used the dirt elsewhere. Same in the other tub. I mean you got from somewhere outdoors right? You don't know what's in it. Is the water clear? Lots of variables here, light, co2, ferts, water clarity, no flow, etc.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Have you used the dirt elsewhere. Same in the other tub. I mean you got from somewhere outdoors right? You don't know what's in it. Is the water clear? Lots of variables here, light, co2, ferts, water clarity, no flow, etc.


Well, yes, the dirt was growing these same pogos in the first tub, with the same light, same lack of flow etc etc and they were growing like gangbusters.

But I do grant that the introduction of CO2 might have surpassed the fertilizing capacity of the dirt.

Basically it’s like I thought all along, CO2 is a major PITA 😂

Oh yeah weirdly the water is crystal clear now, as it was in the first tub after a few days of settling.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Basically it’s like I thought all along, CO2 is a major PITA 😂


Well you confirmed one thing. The reason people don't do diy co2 long-term. Anything that requires so much effort and proactiveness you will never keep up. Pressurized is set it, forget it pretty much.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Well you confirmed one thing. The reason people don't do diy co2 long-term. Anything that requires so much effort and proactiveness you will never keep up. Pressurized is set it, forget it pretty much.


Yeeeeah but about my Bucket. 

So since I’m not about to do an ADA style optimized Bucket with reactor and herbie style overflow, what’s my best bet? Adding some ferts and adding CO2 for some part of the day? Or scrapping the CO2 experiment and letting the plants grow Natural Bucket Style, which seemed to suit them fine before?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Well it doesn't have to be ADA, you could pickup a 5 gallon tank for what $5-10 and a cheap HOB. It would make a much better observation tank than a bucket. But didn't I mention that a few pages ago. 😃 

Up to you, but wasn't the whole point to observe what co2 can do?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Well it doesn't have to be ADA, you could pickup a 5 gallon tank for what $5-10 and a cheap HOB. It would make a much better observation tank than a bucket. But didn't I mention that a few pages ago. 😃
> 
> Up to you, but wasn't the whole point to observe what co2 can do?


I don’t know where you guys get 5$ tanks.... nothing here costs 5$. And it would need a light as well... 

Anyway, so far we have observed that it can murder plants!! 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok I went on Kijiji classifieds out of sheer interest and there’s like one guy offering a 5g for 50$, one offering a 10g for 70$, one offering a 120g for 800$ (don’t know why that comes up in a search for 5 gallon tank) and one guy offering a bucket of ‘natural aquarium gravel’ for 30$. 

I don’t know what’s the deal here with people trying to sell their old garbage at higher prices than what they bought it for. I don’t think either of them included a filter. One may have had a light.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

$5 comes from the dollar per gallon sale that Petco has during the year.


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

LidijaPN said:


> Ok I went on Kijiji classifieds out of sheer interest and there’s like one guy offering a 5g for 50$, one offering a 10g for 70$, one offering a 120g for 800$ (don’t know why that comes up in a search for 5 gallon tank) and one guy offering a bucket of ‘natural aquarium gravel’ for 30$.
> 
> I don’t know what’s the deal here with people trying to sell their old garbage at higher prices than what they bought it for. I don’t think either of them included a filter. One may have had a light.


So I've been told the best way to get a used aquarium is to track an ad for a while and find one that's been sitting unsold. Then offer something really low and there's a good chance you'll get it, because a lot of people who are selling tanks need to get rid of them, but they often ask too much to start with. I have a coworker who's gotten every tank he has for free by offering to take them away from people who just need them gone. Granted, these are larger aquariums that are hard for one person to move, but still -- I'm often amazed by what people ask for used aquariums with questionable provenance.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> $5 comes from the dollar per gallon sale that Petco has during the year.


I’m not sure we even have a Petco. I’ll look around. Everything I see in shops is nuts. Like 2g ‘betta tank’ setups for 150$ etc etc.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> So I've been told the best way to get a used aquarium is to track an ad for a while and find one that's been sitting unsold. Then offer something really low and there's a good chance you'll get it, because a lot of people who are selling tanks need to get rid of them, but they often ask too much to start with. I have a coworker who's gotten every tank he has for free by offering to take them away from people who just need them gone. Granted, these are larger aquariums that are hard for one person to move, but still -- I'm often amazed by what people ask for used aquariums with questionable provenance.


Hmmmmm that’s a sneaky and cool approach!!! 😎 I mean if I were looking for more tanks, which I’m definitely NOT, khh-khhhmmmm. 

But yeah, I’m always really confused. Like oh you need to get rid of it fast so you’re doing me a favor and giving it to me for 400$ instead of 450$, because it costs 460$ new in the store, and you bought it used off some dude but the dude swore he only had it a year. Like I’ll rather pay the 460$ at the store, jesus.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

ak7v said:


> So I've been told the best way to get a used aquarium is to track an ad for a while and find one that's been sitting unsold. Then offer something really low and there's a good chance you'll get it, because a lot of people who are selling tanks need to get rid of them, but they often ask too much to start with. I have a coworker who's gotten every tank he has for free by offering to take them away from people who just need them gone. Granted, these are larger aquariums that are hard for one person to move, but still -- I'm often amazed by what people ask for used aquariums with questionable provenance.


Yep, good point, plenty of people want their aquariums gone especially after trying DIY co2 🤪 or they need gas money. One or the other.


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

LidijaPN said:


> Hmmmmm that’s a sneaky and cool approach!!! 😎 I mean if I were looking for more tanks, which I’m definitely NOT, khh-khhhmmmm.
> 
> But yeah, I’m always really confused. Like oh you need to get rid of it fast so you’re doing me a favor and giving it to me for 400$ instead of 450$, because it costs 460$ new in the store, and you bought it used off some dude but the dude swore he only had it a year. Like I’ll rather pay the 460$ at the store, jesus.


I think after that $450 water-stained, dusty aquarium has been sitting in the garage for a few months, taking up room and collecting dead moths, you could probably get it for $50 if you just got it out of their life.


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## CGY_Betta_Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

Yeah Kijiji makes me laugh with some of the prices people ask for. I sometimes low ball them a buck a gallon. 
Or you can check pet smart... they usually have generic top fin? 10G tanks for $40-50. 
BUT then you wouldnt be pickling anymore..... resist! For all those before you that have succumb to the temptation!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

CGY_Betta_Guy said:


> Yeah Kijiji makes me laugh with some of the prices people ask for. I sometimes low ball them a buck a gallon.
> Or you can check pet smart... they usually have generic top fin? 10G tanks for $40-50.
> BUT then you wouldnt be pickling anymore..... resist! For all those before you that have succumb to the temptation!


No, I get that literally nobody here takes me seriously when I say this, but we legit do - not - have space for a second tank. It’s not happening. 

And yeah it would probably be like 50$ for the tank, at least 25$ for the light, another 20-30 for the filter.... you need media.... it would be more than 100$ for a handful of melting pogos.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Soooo.... I’m pretty sure this doesn’t quite live up to the name of ‘aquascaping’ but I cleared up the front of my jungle farm a bit and kicked the frillies to the back because they grow like mad. It might give the light-hungry guys a better chance at getting the, umm, light. 

The eichhornia was about to go emersed so I cut it in half and replanted the top. It’s been going the best out of the ‘difficult’ plants I got a while back so I hope that was a good move. 

The AR mini seemed to stunt randomly and I cut and replanted that too, to heck with it. Meta is putting out two nudibranch antenna tentacle-vibe shoots up top which I’m observing with interest. The bottom of it looks like absolute trash but that’s ok. 

I pulled up an amazon sword I never really liked to give more space to the l repens, which is also going stunty on top. It’s all very vexing. The indica for its part is randomly un-stunting again. My frogbit is going nuts. In a good way. Still don’t see much progress on the crypt crispatula but it also doesn’t seem to be actively dying, which is always a comfort.

I think I’m gonna throw a baby java fern into total shade and see what happens.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Looks good! I for one like the aquafarming.

Definitely curious how the shaded Java fern does.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Me too, honestly.

Ok so I’ve been considering my general conundrum here. I seem to have one general problem on my hands that is manifesting in multiple plants- stunting of tips. It has been said that most likely culprits for this are calcium deficiency and CO2. So, basically CO2. (Since I dose a calcium-heavy GH+ mix for the snails and shrimp)

Ok, so they’re missing CO2. Well tough bananas, because we’re not installing it. But... there are definitely other small tweaks we could try...

My working theory is that changes to flow, surface agitation, temperature, light, and total plant mass can all influence how much CO2 a particular plant gets, or needs, for that matter.

So what can be done?

- Rotala indica is my first target because it stunts and then unstunts. So there are clear periods when it does well. My suspicion is that it started doing better again when I amended flow. I’ve been slowing the flow for the fish, and then even more for the snails because they kept getting trapped and whirled around in the baffle basket... I think that cut down the flow a little too much. I’ve ordered a 3D printed filter baffle from @Virtus’ baffle guy, and instead of slowing the flow it should redirect it to the right along the surface, so we will see. My hope is that this will give stronger flow around the tank, less disturbance to fish and snails, and better surface agitation all in one. I don’t really wanna shove air stones in there if I don’t have to.

- For the AR mini, I haven’t been able to find info on how exactly it simply stops growing at 4 inches or so.... it was at about that high and did put out two stunted-vibe leaves. So I cut it in half. Let’s see the reaction.

- I’ve been thinking about light a lot, in the context of my pogo massacre. So it isn’t a matter of ‘add this one thing plants really enjoy, and they will thrive’, it’s about giving them the three things they need in even proportion. So you can give low CO2 but with low light and low nutrients and everything should sort of work. If light and nutrients are higher than CO2, plants complain.

This was sort of seemingly confirmed in my tank because I have had a couple of plants now (the poor meta, but also cabomba red and l repens, even the hygro I got rid of) growing really really well until they got to a certain height, and then suddenly stunting. Now this can be for multiple reasons - maybe they just grew as long as they had energy, then stalled out. (None are grown in my tank, all came from outside. So they could have some energy reserves from wherever they were growing before). But the other option, and one I like better frankly, because it gives me something to work with, is that once they climb closer to the light, getting more light and having enough ferts makes them extra starved of CO2.

If this is the case, they should go back to doing well when halved. We will observe with care.

- for the Java ferns, I’ve been trying to work out if the more shaded ones look better. It’s hard to say because they arrived at different times and are still sort of adapting, since they grow so slow... we’ll see how the Cave Fern does. In like a year or whatever.

- I could also shade more things with my salvinia and frogbit, who is growing like an absolute champion. But it’s a question of who to shade and who should still have light access. I know general consensus is that AR, for instance, needs lots of light, but my jar AR is looking better than the tank AR, and it has the awfulest single tiny diode light on there.

In fact a number of plants have done better in the jar. Among them the ludwigia super red, the ludwigia repens, and the althernathera reineckii. It’s interesting to ponder why. Jar has less water surface for gas exchange, zero water movement, somewhat lower kH, significantly worse light (also smaller depth but the light is ultra bad, it’s literally murky in there. Main tank has no murky sections). They’re fertilized sort of the same. Why do some plants prefer the Pickle life? I’m open to suggestions.

- Finally plant mass. Maybe there’s just too many darned plants. Fewer plants would spend CO2 slower. I could also do more/bigger water changes but that’s a pain. Maybe everyone would do better if I brought the temperature a bit lower, slowed things down more. Sadly with summer hitting the opposite is about to happen.

Anyway all these things to be observed until conclusions are reached 😂


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

LidijaPN said:


> Me too, honestly.
> 
> Ok so I’ve been considering my general conundrum here. I seem to have one general problem on my hands that is manifesting in multiple plants- stunting of tips. It has been said that most likely culprits for this are calcium deficiency and CO2. So, basically CO2. (Since I dose a calcium-heavy GH+ mix for the snails and shrimp)
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity, what are your nitrate levels before a water change? Phosphate?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> Out of curiosity, what are your nitrate levels before a water change? Phosphate?


Nitrate around 20. Phosphate I don't know but I do know our tap phosphate is high, but I don't know precisely how high. What are you thinking? Too little or too much?


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

LidijaPN said:


> Nitrate around 20. Phosphate I don't know but I do know our tap phosphate is high, but I don't know precisely how high. What are you thinking? Too little or too much?


I was thinking too low, but 20 ppm nitrate should be good. I don’t know what to think now. Hopefully an expert chimes in!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> I was thinking too low, but 20 ppm nitrate should be good. I don’t know what to think now. Hopefully an expert chimes in!


I’m pretty sure @Asteroid is right and it’s just a matter of too many plants in a tank that doesn’t have enough CO2 for them... I just don’t want to utilize his solution for it , that’s all 😂


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> I’m pretty sure @Asteroid is right and it’s just a matter of too many plants in a tank that doesn’t have enough CO2 for them... I just don’t want to utilize his solution for it , that’s all 😂


Well generally plants are deprived sufficient co2 amounts without it being added, some handle it better than others. 

If you slow things up, including the lighting, not everything will do well. Some plants just require good lighting. And with good lighting you generally need co2/ferts. So what I'm trying to say is now that you've "experimented" with many varieties, pair it down to the ones that are doing well. One tank can't be home to all fish and it can't be home to all plants. 

...or you can certainly keep trying to tweak things in such of the sweet spot, but I doubt adding/changing flow, tweaking ferts, etc will do much in a low tech system.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Well generally plants are deprived sufficient co2 amounts without it being added, some handle it better than others.
> 
> If you slow things up, including the lighting, not everything will do well. Some plants just require good lighting. And with good lighting you generally need co2/ferts. So what I'm trying to say is now that you've "experimented" with many varieties, pair it down to the ones that are doing well. One tank can't be home to all fish and it can't be home to all plants.
> 
> ...or you can certainly keep trying to tweak things in such of the sweet spot, but I doubt adding/changing flow, tweaking ferts, etc will do much in a low tech system.


Yeah I feel the same... since some of my plants are still transitioning and the setup is merely months old I think the experiment will go on a while longer. I definitely still have ideas for things to try. Then winners will be planted and losers will be put out of their misery 😂


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

Asteroid said:


> Well generally plants are deprived sufficient co2 amounts without it being added, some handle it better than others.
> 
> If you slow things up, including the lighting, not everything will do well. Some plants just require good lighting. And with good lighting you generally need co2/ferts. So what I'm trying to say is now that you've "experimented" with many varieties, pair it down to the ones that are doing well. One tank can't be home to all fish and it can't be home to all plants.
> 
> ...or you can certainly keep trying to tweak things in such of the sweet spot, but I doubt adding/changing flow, tweaking ferts, etc will do much in a low tech system.


This reflects my nascent view on planted tanks, in a lot of ways -- we set up an environment that suits us as people based on our time availability, interest, temperament, resources (high tech, low tech, tap water, RO water, high light, low light, max maintenance, min maintenance, etc.) and select plants we like, and sort of a natural selection occurs, where plants less suited to the environment die off and ones better suited thrive. This is why I think stability often leads to something that looks nice, even if half of the plants originally added are gone.

More advanced hobbyists, like the ones here on this site, can adjust and tweak to pull things towards the plants they like, but it takes time and experimentation, and can result in at least something not thriving at any given time until that "natural selection" has occurred to the new environment.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

ak7v said:


> This reflects my nascent view on planted tanks, in a lot of ways -- we set up an environment that suits us (high tech, low tech, tap water, RO water, high light, low light, max maintenance, min maintenance, etc.) and select plants we like, and sort of a natural selection occurs, where plants less suited to the environment die off and ones better suited thrive. This is why I think stability often leads to something that looks nice, even if half of the plants originally added are gone.
> 
> More advanced hobbyists, like the ones here on this site, can adjust and tweak to pull things towards the plants they like, but it takes time and experimentation, and can result in at least something not thriving at any given time until that "natural selection" has occurred to the new environment.


True as it relates to OP. You are more limited with low than hi-tech. I haven't met a plant yet that can't be housed in high-tech (if conditions are right), but low tech not so much. You can't fake high light and co2.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> True as it relates to OP. You are more limited with low than hi-tech. I haven't met a plant yet that can't be housed in high-tech (if conditions are right), but low tech not so much. You can't fake high light and co2.


I definitely see tons of people struggling with certain plants in high tech tanks. Wasn’t Big CO2 Colleague @jellopuddinpop talking in my ‘what plants did you grow in low tech’ about all the plants they’re currently not happy with... but also said they run no low tech tanks? Meaning all those struggling dears are in high CO2 high light. 



ak7v said:


> This reflects my nascent view on planted tanks, in a lot of ways -- we set up an environment that suits us as people based on our time availability, interest, temperament, resources (high tech, low tech, tap water, RO water, high light, low light, max maintenance, min maintenance, etc.) and select plants we like, and sort of a natural selection occurs, where plants less suited to the environment die off and ones better suited thrive. This is why I think stability often leads to something that looks nice, even if half of the plants originally added are gone.
> 
> More advanced hobbyists, like the ones here on this site, can adjust and tweak to pull things towards the plants they like, but it takes time and experimentation, and can result in at least something not thriving at any given time until that "natural selection" has occurred to the new environment.


Agreed 100%. And your evolving preferences also play a part... and it’s alchemy. How many times you hear one person going ‘oh that thrives for me without any light or ferts or anything, can’t kill the darn thing’ and someone else is like ‘I did everything to get it to thrive and no luck’.... or the posts like ‘my high tech tank is struggling so I put some cuttings in a no tech tank just for keeping and totally forgot about them and now the plants in the ‘whatever’ tank are thriving as they never did in the ‘real’ one..... 

I agree you gotta see what magic you can make. Also I feel sometimes people give up on plants too soon because they’re looking rough and everyone tells them ‘oh that will NEVER work without CO2/ more flow/ a better light blah blah’ when some plants just take a really long time to adjust and figure things out...


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> I definitely see tons of people struggling with certain plants in high tech tanks. Wasn’t Big CO2 Colleague @jellopuddinpop talking in my ‘what plants did you grow in low tech’ about all the plants they’re currently not happy with... but also said they run no low tech tanks? Meaning all those struggling dears are in high CO2 high light.


No, your missing my point. yes, plants will struggle for one reason or another in Hi-tech too, but it's fixable. You can't fix low light, low co2 if the plant need it. BIG difference. Hi-tech is unlimited for the most part, low-tech is limited. There's no getting around that, sorry. It doesn't mean you can't have a great low-tech tank, but your options are more limited.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Did an


Asteroid said:


> No, your missing my point. yes, plants will struggle for one reason or another in Hi-tech too, but it's fixable. You can't fix low light, low co2 if the plant need it. BIG difference. Hi-tech is unlimited for the most part, low-tech is limited. There's no getting around that, sorry. It doesn't mean you can't have a great low-tech tank, but your options are more limited.


we all get that I think 😂 I don’t know why you feel we don’t? That’s why I’m not, like, planting wall to wall pantanal. Although Sudipta did grow pantanal pretty well in his low tech now that I think about it, so..... ok I’m not planting erios. I think you can’t do those low tech. Although like I bet someone somewhere randomly did hahah. Like @plantnoobdude or someone.

Anyway in other news, I did another local trade today and ended up with a massive section of a barteri (where will you put it, I hear you say? And ‘no idea’, I reply!), a nice length of bolbitis I got flat out by mistake (asked the guy for some pennywort but he doesn’t know plant names apparently and his pennywort is dead and it was an old photo but he did randomly give me bolbitis so yay) and a bunch of different ramshorns he’s looking to rehome... they look a little rough but hopefully will thrive for me.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> we all get that I think 😂 I don’t know why you feel we don’t?


I thought you did, but then you brought up, by giving an example of plants not doing well in hi-tech or did I misunderstand that? And again growth is subjective, most experienced people have a different threshold of what is good growth so the co2 is even more key for the plant to look it's best to them. 

The difference is if I have co2 and a light capable of very high output when I purchase a plant I don't have to wonder if I have what I need. The rest is up to the tank owner. If I don't have those things, it's out of my control.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> I thought you did, but then you brought up, by giving an example of plants not doing well in hi-tech or did I misunderstand that? And again growth is subjective, most experienced people have a different threshold of what is good growth so the co2 is even more key for the plant to look it's best to them.
> 
> The difference is if I have co2 and a light capable of very high output when I purchase a plant I don't have to wonder if I have what I need. The rest is up to the tank owner. If I don't have those things, it's out of my control.


no no, I think we're all totally clear on that part. And yeah the rest is up to the owner.... but the 'up to the owner' thing is pretty huge from what I'm seeing, is all I wanted to say? So yes, as a high tech tank owner the odds are sort of stacked in your favor, and me as a low tech owner the odds are somewhat stacked against me. But even within this framework we see people struggling to grow things in very high tech conditions, on the other hand we see people with low tech tanks that grow things they 'shouldn't be able to'. And it doesn't always come down to special skill or capacity of the owner, like I say, very experienced people who are 'doing everything right' end up struggling with things sometimes, and even if we consider growth subjective, sometimes a plant is just failing objectively, hahah, and it's hard to pinpoint why..... on the other hand there are the 'I forgot about it and it grew amazingly' stories where people had put in zero care and things randomly thrived. 

So none of this takes away from the general notion that yes, high tech is easier and gives more room, low tech is always going to be a bit subdued, a bit of a struggle. BUT, it's not like there is no leeway there for things to surprise you. I guess I'm looking for those surprises..... And it's ok if they don't come. But pretty cool if they do


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> no no, I think we're all totally clear on that part. And yeah the rest is up to the owner.... but the 'up to the owner' thing is pretty huge from what I'm seeing, is all I wanted to say? So yes, as a high tech tank owner the odds are sort of stacked in your favor, and me as a low tech owner the odds are somewhat stacked against me. But even within this framework we see people struggling to grow things in very high tech conditions, on the other hand we see people with low tech tanks that grow things they 'shouldn't be able to'. And it doesn't always come down to special skill or capacity of the owner, like I say, very experienced people who are 'doing everything right' end up struggling with things sometimes, and even if we consider growth subjective, sometimes a plant is just failing objectively, hahah, and it's hard to pinpoint why..... on the other hand there are the 'I forgot about it and it grew amazingly' stories where people had put in zero care and things randomly thrived.
> 
> So none of this takes away from the general notion that yes, high tech is easier and gives more room, low tech is always going to be a bit subdued, a bit of a struggle. BUT, it's not like there is no leeway there for things to surprise you. I guess I'm looking for those surprises..... And it's ok if they don't come. But pretty cool if they do


Good luck for the surprises. And I really do hope you can "grow" plants that need good light and co2 in low light without co2. It will turn the hobby on it's head and everyone will want to know your name. 

But right now it's dinky is, dinky does.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Good luck for the surprises. And I really do hope you can "grow" plants that need good light and co2 in low light without co2. It will turn the hobby on it's head and everyone will want to know your name.
> 
> But right now it's dinky is, dinky does.


You do know you are racking up points towards 'most frequent poster' on this journal, right? 😂 Apparently 'dinky' keeps you entertained, that's something at least 😂

I think I'm making small victories! My AR is doing well, my eichhornia is doing well..... ish..... I think I could do more if I could bring the temperature down a little. We will see.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

@Asteroid is spot on. My reply on the other post was in response to something along the lines of "what does 'grow' mean? Does it mean it's something you're happy with?" I said that "happy with..." is subjective. I'm not over the moon ecstatic with any of my plants; there's always something that could be better. I have a lot of learning to do, and a lot of challenges to work through. I'm not happy with any of my plants because they're not growing as optimally as they could. I'm a perfectionist, and until my tank looks like a fruit stand with all of the colors that my plants are capable of, I'm not going to be happy. that said, I can promise that if I turned the CO2 off on my tank and reduced the lighting, it would look 100x worse than it does now.

Asteroid pointed out that there are some plants that simply will not thrive in a low tech tank. They might grow, but they cannot thrive. He pointed out that high light and CO2 are needed for them to truly show their best. will they grow, as in not-die? Maybe. will they look as good as they're genetically capable of looking? Nope.

This is not the same as saying that high light and high CO2 fix all problems. You're conflating the two ideas.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> @Asteroid is spot on. My reply on the other post was in response to something along the lines of "what does 'grow' mean? Does it mean it's something you're happy with?" I said that "happy with..." is subjective. I'm not over the moon ecstatic with any of my plants; there's always something that could be better. I have a lot of learning to do, and a lot of challenges to work through. I'm not happy with any of my plants because they're not growing as optimally as they could. I'm a perfectionist, and until my tank looks like a fruit stand with all of the colors that my plants are capable of, I'm not going to be happy. that said, I can promise that if I turned the CO2 off on my tank and reduced the lighting, it would look 100x worse than it does now.
> 
> Asteroid pointed out that there are some plants that simply will not thrive in a low tech tank. They might grow, but they cannot thrive. He pointed out that high light and CO2 are needed for them to truly show their best. will they grow, as in not-die? Maybe. will they look as good as they're genetically capable of looking? Nope.
> 
> This is not the same as saying that high light and high CO2 fix all problems. You're conflating the two ideas.


I swear you two guys are like a cult 😂 

I do get the whole CO2 make plant grow gud thing. I promise promise promise I do. I'm just saying there can be planted tank life even beyond CO2. Maybe?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> @Asteroid is spot on. My reply on the other post was in response to something along the lines of "what does 'grow' mean? Does it mean it's something you're happy with?" I said that "happy with..." is subjective. I'm not over the moon ecstatic with any of my plants; there's always something that could be better. I have a lot of learning to do, and a lot of challenges to work through. I'm not happy with any of my plants because they're not growing as optimally as they could. I'm a perfectionist, and until my tank looks like a fruit stand with all of the colors that my plants are capable of, I'm not going to be happy. that said, I can promise that if I turned the CO2 off on my tank and reduced the lighting, it would look 100x worse than it does now.
> 
> Asteroid pointed out that there are some plants that simply will not thrive in a low tech tank. They might grow, but they cannot thrive. He pointed out that high light and CO2 are needed for them to truly show their best. will they grow, as in not-die? Maybe. will they look as good as they're genetically capable of looking? Nope.
> 
> This is not the same as saying that high light and high CO2 fix all problems. You're conflating the two ideas.



We are of one sound mind


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> I swear you two guys are like a cult 😂
> 
> I do get the whole CO2 make plant grow gud thing. I promise promise promise I do. I'm just saying there can be planted tank life even beyond CO2. Maybe?


Joooiiiiinnnn Uuuusssssssss


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> We are of one sound mind





jellopuddinpop said:


> Joooiiiiinnnn Uuuusssssssss


Ok like haha funny but also legit creepy 😅


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Joooiiiiinnnn Uuuusssssssss


She can join, but needs to show proof of purchase for shiny new co2 regulator. Single stage would be acceptable.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> She can join, but needs to show proof of purchase for shiny new co2 regulator. Single stage would be acceptable.


You guys just have way too much free time.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> She can join, but needs to show proof of purchase for shiny new co2 regulator. Single stage would be acceptable.


At this point, she could just put a CO2 hose directly into her filter intake and have it turn on for 5 seconds each hour at full blast. It would be better than nothing!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> At this point, she could just put a CO2 hose directly into her filter intake and have it turn on for 5 seconds each hour at full blast. It would be better than nothing!


Y'all need to find a new hobby. Do you do this to every person here who runs a low tech tank? 😑


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

anyway since y'all here, ever had any health troubles with your ramshorns that didn't involve their shells disintegrating from precious, precious CO2? The ramshorns I got have something a little weird around the rims of their shells.... it's only on the bigger snails and looks like.... lice. Well, nits, more specifically. Do snails get nits?


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Sorry, no help from me. 've only ever kept Nerites on purpose. I have experience with pond snails, bladder snails, and miniature ramshorns, but my only experience is trying to kill them.

Oddly enough while we're on the subject, I did manage to rid myself of a snail infestation with CO2 once before. I removed the fish, turned off the main filter and only had a tiny wavemaker on, and dumped in about 20 3l bottles of club soda. I caught about 1000 of them as they scrambled up the glass trying to escape. did the same thing every few days while more eggs hatched, and was rid of them in about 2 weeks.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> Y'all need to find a new hobby. Do you do this to every person here who runs a low tech tank? 😑


You seem to be the only one dead set on trying to get everything you can out of your plants, while also refusing to run CO2. It's like entering a motorcycle race on a bicycle, and then wondering how all those motorcycle racers go so fast =). When we explain that you need a motorcycle to race, you ask us how to make your bicycle faster instead. Yes, there are a lot more things you can probably do with your cycling technique to go faster, but you're never going to win any motorcycle races, no matter how fast you petal.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> You seem to be the only one dead set on trying to get everything you can out of your plants, while also refusing to run CO2. It's like entering a motorcycle race on a bicycle, and then wondering how all those motorcycle racers go so fast =). When we explain that you need a motorcycle to race, you ask us how to make your bicycle faster instead. Yes, there are a lot more things you can probably do with your cycling technique to go faster, but you're never going to win any motorcycle races, no matter how fast you petal.


*pedal

But but but..... omg. Ok name one plant I'm keeping that requires a 'motorcycle' and I'm trying to grow it on a bike 😂 Like mayyyybe the meta and eichhornia but as I explained someone just gave me that for no reason. I'm not gonna throw it in the trash. If it dies it dies, in the meanwhile I am observing and will hopefully learn something. Maybe about the importance of CO2 lol.

Yes, I want good biking skills. The best. I wanna see how fast the bike can go. Whatever is reserved for the motorcycles, they can have it. We've been over this! I don't get you guys. When have I ever said anything like 'darn, why aren't these erios thriving?!?!?' I'm just watching stuff to see what happens. You'd think it was illegal or something.

Like I even posted in the 'low tech forum' and you popped up in there with CO2 tips hahahah. That's like me posting on 'Biking Today' asking for biking tips and you guys are like 'MOTORCYCLES ARE FASTER YOU LOSERS!' 😂


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I think the point is that you've reached your limit with low tech. Your best bet to get the tank looking better now is to trim and scape. You're not going to get any more from your bicycle. You're the Lance Armstrong of low tech tanks. Your reds won't get redder, your bushes wont get bushier, your carpets aren't going to carpet, etc etc etc... You've hit a plateau.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> ...You're the Lance Armstrong of low tech tanks.


Jello, your firing on all cylinders today.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

jellopuddinpop said:


> You seem to be the only one dead set on trying to get everything you can out of your plants, while also refusing to run CO2. It's like entering a motorcycle race on a bicycle, and then wondering how all those motorcycle racers go so fast =). When we explain that you need a motorcycle to race, you ask us how to make your bicycle faster instead. Yes, there are a lot more things you can probably do with your cycling technique to go faster, but you're never going to win any motorcycle races, no matter how fast you petal.


She's definitely not, the rest of low-techers just aren't brave enough to face up to the cult of CO2. Stay strong for us @LidijaPN! We are cheering you on!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> I think the point is that you've reached your limit with low tech. Your best bet to get the tank looking better now is to trim and scape. You're not going to get any more from your bicycle. You're the Lance Armstrong of low tech tanks. Your reds won't get redder, your bushes wont get bushier, your carpets aren't going to carpet, etc etc etc... You've hit a plateau.


Alright, fair call, let me plateau in peace then 😎 And if anything happens to happen outside of all the plateauing, I’ll be sure to report. For now I really feel like I’ve absorbed as much as I possibly can from the advice line of ‘you need to add CO2’. So you’re also plateauing sort of, I mean advice wise. So let’s plateau together in beautiful peace and harmony 🤩 And I do still welcome absolutely any and all input, just to be clear. But perhaps if the gist of said input is ‘you should add CO2’.... consider it said and heard.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> She's definitely not, the rest of low-techers just aren't brave enough to face up to the cult of CO2. Stay strong for us @LidijaPN! We are cheering you on!


See, guys? You’re flat out scaring people 😂


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

I feel like there's got to be some CO2 cult vs low tech memes to generate here...


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

ak7v said:


> I feel like there's got to be some CO2 cult vs low tech memes to generate here...


If you make them, I will read through them and quietly add laughing emojis underneath!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> I feel like there's got to be some CO2 cult vs low tech memes to generate here...


Go to town 😂 The hats thing we did was pretty fun... 

Seriously I feel like my journal is the only one with, like, political vibes 😂 Somehow this doesn’t happen to other people.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> If you make them, I will read through them and quietly add laughing emojis underneath!


Stand behind me Katie, I won’t let the CO2 people get you! 😂


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Well based on @LidijaPN post count in 4 months she has already doubled @jellopuddinpop's count and she'll probably pass me by this weekend. She will then become the true voice of low-tech and I predict they'll be three planted tank categories. 

High-tech
Low-tech
Dinky-tech


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Well based on @LidijaPN post count in 4 months she has already doubled @jellopuddinpop's count and she'll probably pass me by this weekend. She will then become the true voice of low-tech and I predict they'll be three planted tank categories.
> 
> High-tech
> Low-tech
> Dinky-tech


Wait how specifically is dinky different from low hahah?

Aaaaahh, now I get it!! I talk a lot, that’s why you’ve had to gang up on me 😂 Strong and silent CO2 types 😂


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> Stand behind me Katie, I won’t let the CO2 people get you! 😂


Yay! Thanks!! I appreciate your selfless sacrifice on my behalf!!!

I'm also a lot jealous that people keep handing you free plants. There really isn't much stuff around here that I have found for aquarists, and I'm too busy to do much looking around anyway. I would definitely be doing more planting and experimenting to see if things die or not, if people were handing me free plants. I need to do a bit of rearranging in my tank and I'll probably do some ordering of more plants.

And eventually I'll have a free weekend to update my journal a bit. You can bring politics on there if you want, but I am also not going over to the dark _cough cough CO2 cough cough_ side. Even if there are cookies!

Edited for spelling


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

On a serious note, this site lost a lot of really educated, really experienced people who would be better at explaining these things than @Asteroid and I. We "gang up" because there just aren't a lot of us left with experience in high tech, high demand tanks. What we're advocating for is really the way of the planted tank world, but this site has lost a lot of those voices. It just seems like we're crazy and "cult" like, because a majority of the high tech gurus are gone. 2 or 3 years ago, this place was full of people discussing the intricacies of 2:1 vs 3:1 Ca:Mg ratios, whether or not Gluconate was worth it, or just stick to DTPA chelators, "Hey, let's see what happens to this tank when I double my lighting to 250 PAR", etc...

Now, we spend all our time fielding questions about whether or not plants need Nitrogen, or explaining that ammonia will kill fish. When there's something that interests us (speaking for myself, at least), I want to chime in.

You are so enthusiatic about your tank, and it's amazing to see. You've done such great things, and I hate to see you stumped with no recourse. That's why I keep advocating for CO2. You have the passion, energy, and smarts to make it happen, and I want to help with that journey. As it is, you're really just at the end of the line when it comes to low tech.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

jellopuddinpop said:


> I think the point is that you've reached your limit with low tech. Your best bet to get the tank looking better now is to trim and scape. You're not going to get any more from your bicycle. You're the Lance Armstrong of low tech tanks. Your reds won't get redder, your bushes wont get bushier, your carpets aren't going to carpet, etc etc etc... You've hit a plateau.


This seems to be the super cynical approach. I say this as someone who thrives on cynicism and an excess of sarcasm. Ha. Of course there’s more room for improvement while remaining low tech, or why would so many long time hobbyists continue keeping low tech tank! Your “Big CO2” approach seems to be corrupted by capitalism, as is fairly standard for “Big” anything. LOL! 

But in all seriousness, there’s always room to grow and improve in any sub-segment of the hobby. That’s what makes it an interesting hobby even after 25+ years. 

Suggesting that someone is the Lance Armstrong of low tech tanks…. Does that make CO2 the EPOs, lying, bullying & generally being a complete A-hole? Or maybe that while the op claims to be low tech, they are actually injecting CO2 in secret in order to be the “best”? There are so many ways to go with these claims! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Yay! Thanks!! I appreciate your selfless sacrifice on my behalf!!!
> 
> I'm also a lot jealous that people keep handing you free plants. There really isn't much stuff around here that I have found, and I'm too busy to do much looking around. I would definitely be doing more planting and experimenting to see if things die or not, if people were handing me free plants. I need to do a bit of rearranging in my tank and I'll probably do some ordering of more plants.
> 
> And eventually I'll have a free weekend to update my journal a bit. You can bring politics on their if you want, but I am also not going over to the dark _cough cough CO2 cough cough_ side. Even if there are cookies!


oh for sure, if I had to pay for all the plants I'd definitely be less ... experimental about it hahah. But I can't help but be curious about the unbeaten paths, especially as from time to time people give hints that there are some interesting things to be found there.


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## plantnoobdude (Jun 25, 2021)

untill you reach sudipta's results with low tech, there's still much further to go! Also, I see you're following my advice regarding flow, distribution etc.

the only hard limit for co2 would be softwater isoetids and similar heavily variegated plants.
E. Quinquangulare
Centrolepis Drummondiana
hygrophila chai
ludwigia white
other than that, plant away!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

johnson18 said:


> This seems to be the super cynical approach. I say this as someone who thrives on cynicism and an excess of sarcasm. Ha. Of course there’s more room for improvement while remaining low tech, or why would so many long time hobbyists continue keeping low tech tank! Your “Big CO2” approach seems to be corrupted by capitalism, as is fairly standard for “Big” anything. LOL!
> 
> But in all seriousness, there’s always room to grow and improve in any sub-segment of the hobby. That’s what makes it an interesting hobby even after 25+ years.
> 
> Suggesting that someone is the Lance Armstrong of low tech tanks…. Does that make CO2 the EPOs, lying, bullying & generally being a complete A-hole? Or maybe that while the op claims to be low tech, they are actually injecting CO2 in secret in order to be the “best”? There are so many ways to go with these claims! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


OMG IT WAS A DOPING ACCUSATION!! I NEVER EVEN CAUGHT IT!! 😂 😂 😂 This is gold. 

But yes there must be further to go. We all read Sudipta's thread. Come on. I'm not queen of anything after six months.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

Well, if you ever


LidijaPN said:


> oh for sure, if I had to pay for all the plants I'd definitely be less ... experimental about it hahah. But I can't help but be curious about the unbeaten paths, especially as from time to time people give hints that there are some interesting things to be found there.


If you ever decide to experiment with shipping your cuttings, I would be happy to volunteer to be an international guinea pig!!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> On a serious note, this site lost a lot of really educated, really experienced people who would be better at explaining these things than @Asteroid and I. We "gang up" because there just aren't a lot of us left with experience in high tech, high demand tanks. What we're advocating for is really the way of the planted tank world, but this site has lost a lot of those voices. It just seems like we're crazy and "cult" like, because a majority of the high tech gurus are gone. 2 or 3 years ago, this place was full of people discussing the intricacies of 2:1 vs 3:1 Ca:Mg ratios, whether or not Gluconate was worth it, or just stick to DTPA chelators, "Hey, let's see what happens to this tank when I double my lighting to 250 PAR", etc...
> 
> Now, we spend all our time fielding questions about whether or not plants need Nitrogen, or explaining that ammonia will kill fish. When there's something that interests us (speaking for myself, at least), I want to chime in.
> 
> You are so enthusiatic about your tank, and it's amazing to see. You've done such great things, and I hate to see you stumped with no recourse. That's why I keep advocating for CO2. You have the passion, energy, and smarts to make it happen, and I want to help with that journey. As it is, you're really just at the end of the line when it comes to low tech.


Ok this actually made me really emotional which is totes weird for a fish forum hahahahh. But I do appreciate that sentiment, a lot.

However! I feel like you're looking at things from a very specific niche and maybe you're not seeing what I'm seeing..... I don't feel like you two are the rare last members of a dying cult. I feel like you are EVERYWHERE. It's invasion of the body snatchers. Everyone is installing cylinders and talking inline diffusion and reactors and the one point drop and whatnot. Even @Virtus is changing sides hahah! It feels like practically anyone who is serious, and has a journal, and posts a lot, has a high tech tank. I get super excited when I see someone active and outspoken who shares pics and talks about stuff and is actually low tech. There are not a lot. (If I'm not looking in the right places hit me up with links folks!!!)

So you guys are the norm. I get that many 'big guns' have left and yes there are a ton of us newbies learning the ropes. But I do think that some of us will end up in the higher ranks with time. And most of those, probably, on your side.

But once in a while someone comes in and, like Sudipta, or @plantnoobdude, or partially @MoreliaViridis (even though they do use CO2, but they're very experimental and fascinating to follow) and they show weird, interesting, different results. And this really fires me up. Like what can be done? What are we missing? I want those same debates, on chelators and PAR and tweaking ferts and this and that, but on the low tech side. You seem to think there just isn't room for that but I'm pretty sure, with all due respect, that you're wrong <3 I've seen people do surprising low tech stuff. It doesn't mean that I will manage. But I want to poke at it.

I'm definitely not saying that I will never ever ever run a CO2 tank. I might. I am very fired up about this hobby, very curious, and that will come. But not today


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

KatieMR said:


> Well, if you ever
> 
> 
> If you ever decide to experiment with shipping your cuttings, I would be happy to volunteer to be an international guinea pig!!


Have you checked to see if there are any local aquarium or plant groups on Facebook? If you're in southern California, I have lots of trimmings to give away. My problem is I'll post on Facebook and people say they want to get them, but then they never show up, so I end up throwing it all away.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

I don't use facebook, which is probably a large, contributing factor to my inability to acquire free plants. Forums like these are pretty much the only social media I use (for many reasons, mostly involving being super busy).

Unfortunately, I am in Iowa, so I'm a very long way from California. If I were closer, I would totally show up with a dinky bucket!


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

I wouldn't call CO2 people a "cult". The reason being that L Ron Hubbard might hear you and we'll be forced to send money each time we want to add one more bubble per second. You'd also never be able to stop using CO2. If you tried you'd be sent to the ADA gallery and be forced to maintain their tanks for a few months. Actually that doesn't sound too bad. Yes, we are a cult, can you hear us L Ron? 😂


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

KatieMR said:


> I don't use facebook, which is probably a large, contributing factor to my inability to acquire free plants. Forums like these are pretty much the only social media I use (for many reasons, mostly involving being super busy).
> 
> Unfortunately, I am in Iowa, so I'm a very long way from California. If I were closer, I would totally show up with a dinky bucket!


If I had the discipline to drop Facebook in exchange for fewer plants, I'd ditch FB. Keep an eye out on this forum, people give away cuttings now and then. I might start doing the same, although the shipping process / getting everything to the post office quickly enough could be a challenge at times.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I don't think anyone is looking down a low tech. That's not my feeling and I don't think it's Jello's either. There is just so much you can do with low-tech. It is a limited system. Sorry if you don't like that word, but it is. It's not about speed either. It's limited in what you can grow. There is room for all niches in the hobby and different people like different niches for different reasons. There is a world of difference between a Walstad tank and for example an ADA one. One is about growing plants the other is generally aquascaping. 

If I decided I wanted an thick carpet with a very red thicket of plants behind some rocks, your ability to do that will be very limited in a Walstad tank because it generally has lower light. Google Walstad and must pics will show the same 10-15 plant types not colorful stems with carpets. Carpets generally don't grow in low-tech or if they do, they will grow so slow that you'll probably leave the hobby before it's completed. If you increase light the chances are algae will take over from the high organic load it exists on. So either light or co2 is the limitation. 

Also experimenting with dosing things like Urea is not a good idea for most people unless you have a large mass of plants that will uptake it, otherwise you will likely have a tremendous algae issue or kill your livestock. So it's great to experiment just make sure you understand what context it's being done in.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

ak7v said:


> If I had the discipline to drop Facebook in exchange for fewer plants, I'd ditch FB. Keep an eye out on this forum, people give away cuttings now and then. I might start doing the same, although the shipping process / getting everything to the post office quickly enough could be a challenge at times.


I gave it up about a year before I got my fish tank, so I didn't have to exercise such discipline! And for a couple of years before that, I was only on about once a week to keep up with a couple of authors. It just didn't seem worth it to keep the account. I haven't regretted it either, except the lack of free plants . . .


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## plantnoobdude (Jun 25, 2021)

Asteroid said:


> Also experimenting with dosing things like Urea is not a good idea for most people unless you have a large mass of plants that will uptake it, otherwise you will likely have a tremendous algae issue or kill your livestock. So it's great to experiment just make sure you understand what context it's being done in.


seachem, tropica both contain ammoniacal N, you see many people dosing these products in their tanks without knowing it contains ammonnia. (infact I was one of these people). very good results aswell.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

plantnoobdude said:


> seachem, tropica both contain ammoniacal N, you see many people dosing these products in their tanks without knowing it contains ammonnia. (infact I was one of these people). very good results aswell.


I’m curious about trying Tropica, I feel a bunch of people mentioned it in relation to good plant growth in low tech... maybe I try after my thrive is done!

Do you dose as instructed or less or more?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

plantnoobdude said:


> seachem, tropica both contain ammoniacal N, you see many people dosing these products in their tanks without knowing it contains ammonnia. (infact I was one of these people). very good results aswell.


Isn't the N in seachem, etc inorganic. Urea is organic. Do I need to show tanks that use no3 as their source. Be tough to point out any deficiences and is safe north of 100ppm.


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## plantnoobdude (Jun 25, 2021)

Asteroid said:


> Isn't the N in seachem, etc inorganic. Urea is organic. Do I need to show tanks that use no3 as their source. Be tough to point out any deficiences and is safe north of 100ppm.


NH4NO3? pretty sure thats it.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Yeah that's inorganic, not the same thing as dosing urea


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## plantnoobdude (Jun 25, 2021)

Asteroid said:


> Yeah that's inorganic, not the same thing as dosing urea


yes, it is less safe than urea. it is not an issue at all in soft water or very heavily planted tanks though. never claimed them to contain organic N, only ammoniacal.


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## plantnoobdude (Jun 25, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> I’m curious about trying Tropica, I feel a bunch of people mentioned it in relation to good plant growth in low tech... maybe I try after my thrive is done!
> 
> Do you dose as instructed or less or more?


sorry, can't remember. don't use it anymore. I make my own similar mix.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

plantnoobdude said:


> yes, it is less safe than urea. it is not an issue at all in soft water or very heavily planted tanks though. never claimed them to contain organic N, only ammoniacal.


Isn't that what I basically said in my initial post. That you need certain conditions including heavy plant mass?



Asteroid said:


> Also experimenting with dosing things like Urea is not a good idea for most people unless you have a* large mass of plants *that will uptake it, otherwise you will likely have a tremendous algae issue or kill your livestock. So it's great to experiment just make sure you understand what context it's being done in.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Asteroid said:


> Carpets generally don't grow in low-tech or if they do, they will grow so slow that you'll probably leave the hobby before it's completed.


So you’re saying my attempt to cover half of my low tech 20 long with a Crypt. parva carpet was never going to be successful?!  Now that it’s all been planted in the 90p, I guess I can accept that. After 9 years of growing I really think I could’ve had that area fully carpeted in another decade. Lol.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

My hi-tech parva carpet.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Full disclosure. Even in hi-tech parva takes a long-time. Yes the Guinness is right next to the tank.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Full disclosure. Even in hi-tech parva takes a long-time. Yes the Guinness is right next to the tank.


Teeeny weeeny tankie ♥♥

I feel like there’s a bit of a cross-purpose conversation here regarding who considers what to be ‘success’. There is a sort of bigger-better-faster-more vibe with the CO2 Cult that I don’t entirely relate to. I don’t really care about a parva carpet, or any other carpet. I’m not bothered if my AR is not the pinkest the world has ever seen. The CO2 approach sometimes has this vibe of trying to win the Biggest Cabbage Contest at the county fair, you know? The perfect Fruit Stand bushels of vividly colored plants. Look how fast they grow look how red the leaves are... I don’t even really like that look. I mean I love seeing it in other people’s tanks, but that’s not what I wanna grow. I like my little tank of intermingled weirdness. I feel like stunting a plant three different ways and then somehow getting it to unstunt teaches me more than just growing it perfectly from the start.

So when I’m trying to nudge something into doing a little better it’s not me hitting a wall being frustrated... it’s more wondering if there’s a different approach, trying to make conclusions, looking for similarities and differences between the plants... who’s struggling? Is everyone struggling the same way? Why do I still not understand what chelation is?

It’s sort of like @Asteroid said... all the Walstad tanks show the same 15 plants. But all the high tech tanks show the same things too. ‘Oh I was thinking a dhg/monte carlo carpet, couple of crypts, island layout with the branches sticking out of rocks vibe.. some anubias and h pinnatifida in there... and what can I get for reds?’ The fact that people stick to the surefire 15 plants doesn’t mean that’s all that can grow in low tech... I have almost 40 species in here, let’s say generously that 10 are struggling and not count them... that’s 30 left. Are we saying I have all the plants possible for low tech? Surely that’s not the case. Maybe the wall is not quite as brick as it seems from the other side.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

It's not necessary speed it's the way plant looks. More lush dense, why? because 40+ percent of it's tissue is made from carbon. If there were ways to duplicate a co2 injected environment don't you think the experienced people would do it? No one really enjoys doing refills of co2, although my supplier (fire extinguisher co.) gives out chocolates


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Isn't that what I basically said in my initial post. That you need certain conditions including heavy plant mass?


Btw do we have a definition of ‘heavy plant mass’? Like is my tank ‘heavy plant mass’?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> It's not necessary speed it's the way plant looks. More lush dense, why? because 40+ percent of it's tissue is made from carbon. If there were ways to duplicate a co2 injected environment don't you think the experienced people would do it? No one really enjoys doing refills of co2, although my supplier (fire extinguisher co.) gives out chocolates


Chocolate!! So that’s how they get you!

No I get that things would look lusher. But that’s fine. We go back to Charlie Brown’s Christmas tree. As long as the plant looks generally happy and plantlike, I’m not bothered if it wouldn’t win over someone else’s for Largest Pumpkin at the County Fair.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Now here’s something you CO2 people don’t get to see every day, a two headed alien trying to adapt to Earth’s atmosphere!! 








The meta is working so hard you guys. Look at that epic struggle. Plant vs Evil Person Refusing to Dose CO2. Who will win???








Speaking of free plants, there’s the massive free anubias I got, I think it’s barteri? She such a beaut. Thank god they at least are the proverbial low tech plant. Still thinking where to, if you’ll excuse the phrase, shove it.









Other freebie was two nice chunks of Mistaken Identity Bolbitis! 

Otherwise it’s a peaceful day in the tank. My crystalwort is trying to eat my blue buce. Bad crystalwort, bad!! Everyone else largely as before. I can’t tell if the poor tank pogos are adapting or not but they are Still There tm.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

KatieMR said:


> Well, if you ever
> 
> 
> If you ever decide to experiment with shipping your cuttings, I would be happy to volunteer to be an international guinea pig!!


Is it legal to ship plants across the border? I haven’t found any US companies willing to ship to Quebec... I was talking with some Canadian guys about maybe maybe trying plant exchange. But internationally not sure laws and/or shipping times allow it...?

FB is generally evil and literally the only thing I check there is my aquaristics page and my bug page. The local aquaristics society used to do meets where people traded plants and sold stuff for cheap but now covid so no. But hopefully it comes back! And I’ve met like... 5-6 people already through the group, to exchange stuff. It’s really fun.


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

🤷‍♀️ I have no idea; probably not. I'm sure there are certain species that are illegal here and not there (and vice versa) that you wouldn't be able to ship, but I don't know about general shipping of live things over the border or international shipping times for anywhere except the Caribbean. I don't have enough plant mass to look into ship anything from my tank. And the price of shipping internationally seems like it probably isn't worth it for something that's not sure to survive (aka, any plant I put in my tank), so I haven't tried getting anything internationally.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Even @Virtus is changing sides hahah!


Well great, now I feel like I've let you down... So here are my excuses:

1. It's only on 1 of 3 tanks
2. I'm very weak of mind
3. See # 2

I mean I couldn't even get 1 page into my first two journals before my 10g became a 20 long (which I rescaped like 3 times) and our 55g became a 75g ha. You can't count on me staying the course!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Virtus said:


> Well great, now I feel like I've let you down... So here are my excuses:
> 
> 1. It's only on 1 of 3 tanks
> 2. I'm very weak of mind
> ...


Your transformation is not complete until all three tanks are gassed. It's only then you will realize the true power of the dark side. 👹


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## KatieMR (Jul 9, 2021)

"I know there is still good in you, Father! Let go of your hate!"


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Well great, now I feel like I've let you down... So here are my excuses:
> 
> 1. It's only on 1 of 3 tanks
> 2. I'm very weak of mind
> ...


No excuses. You have failed me. Think about what you have done. 

Seriously though I cannot wait for your side by side comparison, especially if you’re keeping the same plants!


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> No excuses. You have failed me. Think about what you have done.
> 
> Seriously though I cannot wait for your side by side comparison, especially if you’re keeping the same plants!


Yep, I may add a few more plants but everything will be staying.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

I'll have to admit I went the high-tech route to take the "easy" way out. I wanted my plants to grow amazing with as much chance of success as possible so went high-tech, high-light, full EI dosing right from the start. And there seems to be more literature and YouTube videos on how to go that route. I did some research and am happy with my tank but I can't dedicate that much time to experimentation. That's why I appreciate reading journals like this one, I've learned a few things from Lidija's experiments. Just like I can pick up a few tips from people who are doing Walstad tanks. 

Also Lidija IS trying CO2 in a bucket and found something unexpected. I'm pretty interested to hear how that story continues to play out


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> I'll have to admit I went the high-tech route to take the "easy" way out. I wanted my plants to grow amazing with as much chance of success as possible so went high-tech, high-light, full EI dosing right from the start. And there seems to be more literature and YouTube videos on how to go that route. I did some research and am happy with my tank but I can't dedicate that much time to experimentation. That's why I appreciate reading journals like this one, I've learned a few things from Lidija's experiments. Just like I can pick up a few tips from people who are doing Walstad tanks.
> 
> Also Lidija IS trying CO2 in a bucket and found something unexpected. I'm pretty interested to hear how that story continues to play out


Yeah this is basically how I feel about things too. All joking aside, I don’t see anything wrong with going the high tech route for anyone who wants to do that. And I love following your beautiful lush tanks. 

It does, however seem to be the road more traveled, and there is a pretty exact schema to follow - this much ferts, this much light, this much CO2, done, don’t touch it. As such it is really not open to experimentation because experimentation will get you an algae farm. 

The Bucket, by the way, has successfully murdered its last pogo. It will henceforth be known as The Murder Bucket. I am however planning a Bucket 2.0, where CO2 will be dosed in moderation, maybe just an hour per day. Also I won’t run it in on the first day when it’s going crazy. Let’s see how that does.


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## Mr.Submarine (10 mo ago)

So I have a question about your schooling fish. At one point I thing I remember you saying that you got bored with ember tetras — that they just weren’t bringing much personality to the table. Did I remember that correctly? Are there other small fish you think would be more fun for a large-ish school in a 30g tank? Or based on your experience should I just ditch the schooling idea and get some interesting looking guppies? Thanks!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Mr.Submarine said:


> So I have a question about your schooling fish. At one point I thing I remember you saying that you got bored with ember tetras — that they just weren’t bringing much personality to the table. Did I remember that correctly? Are there other small fish you think would be more fun for a large-ish school in a 30g tank? Or based on your experience should I just ditch the schooling idea and get some interesting looking guppies? Thanks!


Ok so this is a super personal view but yes I find the embers super annoying. Not only are they boring and lack any curiosity but they also bully my lampeyes. Other people might of course have very different experiences.

I LOVE both my Norman’s lampeye killifish and my chili rasbora. The chilis are like the tiniest shark in the world. They hunt and stalk tiny invisible things. They hover and lurk. They’re just really cool to observe. And so so so tiny. The lampeyes are more rambunctious and chase each other around and do their little fin dances when the boys are showing off. Also they’re just so beautiful.

I’m sure guppies are cool as well!! I personally can’t wait to get a few more pseudomugils ♥ guppies will definitely breed for you unless you get all boys, that’s its own kind of fun!

Embers suck lol.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah this is basically how I feel about things too. All joking aside, I don’t see anything wrong with going the high tech route for anyone who wants to do that. And I love following your beautiful lush tanks.
> 
> It does, however seem to be the road more traveled, and there is a pretty exact schema to follow - this much ferts, this much light, this much CO2, done, don’t touch it. As such it is really not open to experimentation because experimentation will get you an algae farm.
> 
> The Bucket, by the way, has successfully murdered its last pogo. It will henceforth be known as The Murder Bucket. I am however planning a Bucket 2.0, where CO2 will be dosed in moderation, maybe just an hour per day. Also I won’t run it in on the first day when it’s going crazy. Let’s see how that does.


You absolutely can experiment with CO2. The nice thing (or bad thing) about CO2 is that results from experimentations happen much faster because everything is in overdrive. If I make a bad tweak, I'll just get punished for it in a matter of days instead of weeks. For example, I didn't talk about it in my journal, but I was trying 80% light last week to help my carpet growth and noticed extra green spot algae so I'm dialling it back down to 65% for this week. My limiting factor with DIY CO2 is that I can't adjust my CO2 rate quite as easily, otherwise I would have totally tried upping that for a few days.
Likewise, if I make adjustments in my ferts, I'm guessing I would see stunted growth or deficiencies faster.

Boo for Murder Bucket. That's so strange it killed your pogos so completely like that. Are you going to try other plants in it? If you have a spare sprig of Ludwigia Super Red, that might be interesting


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

I finally finished reading your journal to the most recent! You are really great at articulating your thoughts in a written form, a skill that seems very hard to master.

Your tank reminds me of all the trials and tribulations that I went through starting my own planted tank for the first time. Accidently killing many plants and fish along the way . People giving me random plants to grow. Trying to shoo away all the high tech people as well LOL.

Keep having fun learning and growing at your own pace! Planted tanks rule! I'm looking forward to updates in the future of your tank progress. 👍


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> You absolutely can experiment with CO2. The nice thing (or bad thing) about CO2 is that results from experimentations happen much faster because everything is in overdrive. If I make a bad tweak, I'll just get punished for it in a matter of days instead of weeks. For example, I didn't talk about it in my journal, but I was trying 80% light last week to help my carpet growth and noticed extra green spot algae so I'm dialling it back down to 65% for this week. My limiting factor with DIY CO2 is that I can't adjust my CO2 rate quite as easily, otherwise I would have totally tried upping that for a few days.
> Likewise, if I make adjustments in my ferts, I'm guessing I would see stunted growth or deficiencies faster.
> 
> Boo for Murder Bucket. That's so strange it killed your pogos so completely like that. Are you going to try other plants in it? If you have a spare sprig of Ludwigia Super Red, that might be interesting


yeah that's what I mean by 'can't experiment', it bites you in the butt super fast so most people follow the recipe as exactly as possible to avoid that. I still feel that most people coming with 'ALGAE HAELP' threads are running CO2. 

Yeah it's weird, I thought for a while a few might yet make it but apparently it was too much for them. TCs are finicky. I did actually pop a few super reds in there, I'm trying to determine how much CO2 to try... I mean for how long to keep it in there.... The ludwigias were overcrowding the picklescape so I could definitely spare them. Added wrinkle is we're having a heat wave here so that's another factor to count in when assessing how things are growing. 

I feel like the tank cooling saga of this summer will be another grand DinkyTales adventure. I have a suitably ramshackle solution in the works, watch this space lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> I finally finished reading your journal to the most recent! You are really great at articulating your thoughts in a written form, a skill that seems very hard to master.
> 
> Your tank reminds me of all the trials and tribulations that I went through starting my own planted tank for the first time. Accidently killing many plants and fish along the way . People giving me random plants to grow. Trying to shoo away all the high tech people as well LOL.
> 
> Keep having fun learning and growing at your own pace! Planted tanks rule! I'm looking forward to updates in the future of your tank progress. 👍


Ahahahha 'shooing away all the high tech people' I am crying 😂 See, I knew it was an universal thing!!  Did you eventually succumb an install the darn cylinders?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Anyway I know we've had a heart to heart moment and it was all sweet and all that but I'm just gonna leave these here......


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Ahahahha 'shooing away all the high tech people' I am crying 😂 See, I knew it was an universal thing!!  Did you eventually succumb an install the darn cylinders?


I have 1 planted tank right now with 'them darn cylinders' and it nearly took me 10 years to convert to it. It's in my 11 gallon tall 'test' tank that traveled with me for years. I've tested all my ideas in the tank that floated my fancy 🤓. 

It started as a Terrarium, then converted into a Paludarium, Blackwater Tank, Apistogramma Breeding Tank, Jungle Tank and finally a tank to test high tech Co2 injection and higher light. I use the tank itself as a practice tool to gauge what I want to do when I eventually get a bigger tank, but I wanted to get the practice in now with the smaller scale. I don't post too many pictures of it though since I feel like there's so many better tanks out there when it comes to high tech, lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> I have 1 planted tank right now with 'them darn cylinders' and it nearly took me 10 years to convert to it. It's in my 11 gallon tall 'test' tank that traveled with me for years. I've tested all my ideas in the tank that floated my fancy 🤓.
> 
> It started as a Terrarium, then converted into a Paludarium, Blackwater Tank, Apistogramma Breeding Tank, Jungle Tank and finally a tank to test high tech Co2 injection and higher light. I use the tank itself as a practice tool to gauge what I want to do when I eventually get a bigger tank, but I wanted to get the practice in now with the smaller scale. I don't post too many pictures of it though since I feel like there's so many better tanks out there when it comes to high tech, lol.


Did you find the addition of CO2 life-changing and mind-altering? Like was it a ‘omg this is so much better’ moment?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

This is what it did for me!

Sing to "A Whole New World"

I can show you the world
Shining, shimmering, splendid
A new fantastic point of view
*No one to tell us, "No"*
A whole new world
A dazzling place I never knew.....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> This is what it did for me!
> 
> Sing to "A Whole New World"
> 
> ...


Alright, Alladin, I know how _you_ feel about it 😂


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

At the end of the day, we're all doing the same thing: balancing light, nutrients, _and_ _CO2_ with good husbandry and maintenance to make awesome looking aquariums. The biggest difference in my mind is speed. Or, I should say, the _potential_ for speed, because once we start pumping extra CO2 in there, we can turn the light up (you don't have to do that though!). 

BUT, once you _do_ turn that light up... everything happens so damn fast, you just can't afford to have a reactive approach. If you're reacting, more often than not it's already too late. I think that can make it seem rote and formulaic, but that's only because you can't go into it without a plan. That said, there's definitely still a lot of room for artistry, individualism, and experimentation both on the technical and visual creativity sides.

I think that stupendous CO2-enabled speed also plays a big role in why it seems like everybody their brother is doing high tech. I can set up - and crash in spectacular fashion! - three or four high tech tanks before you get your first wisp of hair algae (I swear, you low tech folks have the patience of saints). The high tech crowd can just put big numbers on the board - more speed means more content per capita because there's just a lot more happening. And that is why low tech seems so much harder to me. I have a hard time with the patience. For someone like me who approaches his hobbies like a Border Collie approaches a frisbee session, supplemental CO2 is essential. Maybe that's why people keep trying to get you to pump the gas, OP - you kinda seem like a Border Collie too .


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Did you find the addition of CO2 life-changing and mind-altering? Like was it a ‘omg this is so much better’ moment?


So for the most part, it made taking care of my plants much easier. The tank's focus is on mostly Epiphytes such as Bucephalandra and Anubias. I wanted a way to let them grow faster, algae free and more colorful and Co2 definetly helped. I believe my lights are on the low/medium side (I'm renting a par meter soon to check actual numbers), so not super high-light like most high tech tanks. 

The most important thing that I learned through a Co2 injected tank was the importance of good water flow throughout the tank, trimming and placing plants in a way where the flow does not get impeded. Also the importance of surface agitation and gas exchange throughout the tank. These are things that I really never would of considered, if I had not gone the high tech route. 

With those lessons learned, I implemented those lessons in my low tech tanks to make them healthier and flourish better. 

Also I secretly REALLY wanted a shiny, fully purple bucephalandra and I finally made my dreams come true with Co2 injection, lol. 🤓


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> So for the most part, it made taking care of my plants much easier. The tank's focus is on mostly Epiphytes such as Bucephalandra and Anubias. I wanted a way to let them grow faster, algae free and more colorful and Co2 definetly helped. I believe my lights are on the low/medium side (I'm renting a par meter soon to check actual numbers), so not super high-light like most high tech tanks.
> 
> The most important thing that I learned through a Co2 injected tank was the importance of good water flow throughout the tank, trimming and placing plants in a way where the flow does not get impeded. Also the importance of surface agitation and gas exchange throughout the tank. These are things that I really never would of considered, if I had not gone the high tech route.
> 
> ...


Show us pretty purple buce pics!! I have a really blue one but haven’t even tried purple...

Yeah makes sense. There are definitely things to learn on both sides...



EmotionalFescue said:


> At the end of the day, we're all doing the same thing: balancing light, nutrients, _and_ _CO2_ with good husbandry and maintenance to make awesome looking aquariums. The biggest difference in my mind is speed. Or, I should say, the _potential_ for speed, because once we start pumping extra CO2 in there, we can turn the light up (you don't have to do that though!).
> 
> BUT, once you _do_ turn that light up... everything happens so damn fast, you just can't afford to have a reactive approach. If you're reacting, more often than not it's already too late. I think that can make it seem rote and formulaic, but that's only because you can't go into it without a plan. That said, there's definitely still a lot of room for artistry, individualism, and experimentation both on the technical and visual creativity sides.
> 
> I think that stupendous CO2-enabled speed also plays a big role in why it seems like everybody their brother is doing high tech. I can set up - and crash in spectacular fashion! - three or four high tech tanks before you get your first wisp of hair algae (I swear, you low tech folks have the patience of saints). The high tech crowd can just put big numbers on the board - more speed means more content per capita because there's just a lot more happening. And that is why low tech seems so much harder to me. I have a hard time with the patience. For someone like me who approaches his hobbies like a Border Collie approaches a frisbee session, supplemental CO2 is essential. Maybe that's why people keep trying to get you to pump the gas, OP - you kinda seem like a Border Collie too .


Hahahah I am a little bit of a Border Collie maybe? But, like, a patient one?

I really appreciate the fact that my tank won’t turn into an algae farm if I forget the lights once. (They are on a timer. But, like, it malfunctions or something). I’m a very cautious person by nature and I appreciate having the time to make the corrections. 

Also I’m cheap lol. 

I’m not even cheap, it’s weird. In some things I’m very cheap. I like basic things... I don’t know really. I feel like this whole tank thing is a journey and I’m not in a hurry to get to the top or anything. I like my tiny discoveries.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Show us pretty purple buce pics!! I have a really blue one but haven’t even tried purple...


Here's some Bucephalandra 'Kedagang Red' (aka Godzilla). It has a base leaf color of dark green, but has a metallic Blue/Red/Purple sheen depending on the angle you look at it. 

















And this is Bucephalandra 'Brownie Ghost 2011'. It has a base leaf color of dark purple, and has a purple/blue metallic sheen. It looks purple/blue no matter what angle you look at it. The new leaves are also bright red. 

























No photoshop either, just basic photos with my Samsung s7 camera.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> Here's some Bucephalandra 'Kedagang Red' (aka Godzilla). It has a base leaf color of dark green, but has a metallic Blue/Red/Purple sheen depending on the angle you look at it.
> View attachment 1042610
> 
> View attachment 1042611
> ...


Beautiful! I have a ‘brownie sp.’ which I think still hasn’t shown its true colors... and the ‘metallic blue’ is pretty blue. I have one other I got from someone as a gift that’s pretty straight up green.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Beautiful! I have a ‘brownie sp.’ which I think still hasn’t shown its true colors... and the ‘metallic blue’ is pretty blue. I have one other I got from someone as a gift that’s pretty straight up green.


Thank you! Buce's are kind of hit/miss for color development. I think a lot of times they are sold with random names and you never know what you get. They also take some time to develop their mature colors and leaf size. The godzilla has been with me for 1 year, and the Brownie about 8 months.

The only sure way to get colorful ones are to get them from hobbiest that actually take the time to grow them out, to positively ID or confirm that they color up. They end up becoming expensive when you take that route though, don't even ask me how much that 'Brownie 2011' was, it's still a traumatic memory LOL.

Also red/blue Leds really help to bring out their colors, I'm using a cheap clip on led pendant from Amazon. I run it on a timer for around 4 hrs, towards the end of the Light cycle. It's basically the only time I'm at the house to look at the tank.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

EmotionalFescue said:


> For someone like me who approaches his hobbies like a Border Collie approaches a frisbee session, supplemental CO2 is essential. Maybe that's why people keep trying to get you to pump the gas, OP - you kinda seem like a Border Collie too .


Wowwwww, perfect analogy. As the humble servant to 2 3yo Border Collies, you hit the nail on the head!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Wowwwww, perfect analogy. As the humble servant to 2 3yo Border Collies, you hit the nail on the head!


Can relate, had a Shetland Sheepdog for 17 years. Lots of Border Collie in it's lineage


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> Can relate, had a Shetland Sheepdog for 17 years. Lots of Border Collie in it's lineage


They just... don't... stop. 

I have quite a bit of land and no fences for mine. They love to run in the woods, and are usually really great with their recall. Usually is the key word...

Last summer they spotted a herd of deer out in my orchard and decided that wasn't acceptable, and chased this herd of deer into the state forest behind my property. They have GPS trackers on their collars, and I watched in real time as they chased these deer for almost 10 miles, nonstop. They got bored for some reason, turned around, and ran home. After a quick hose wash, they spent an hour on the porch to dry off and came back in the house. Not 10 minutes later, and Shiloh (my female) was standing there with her nasty ass tennis ball wanting to play. I would have bet my left foot that they were going to be out for the rest of the day, but apparently it's only a 1 hour recharge after a 20 mile run for them to be back in action.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Wowwwww, perfect analogy. As the humble servant to 2 3yo Border Collies, you hit the nail on the head!





Asteroid said:


> Can relate, had a Shetland Sheepdog for 17 years. Lots of Border Collie in it's lineage


Just to be clear, this is everyone agreeing that yes, in fact, I am absolutely a Border Collie? 

😂😂😂😂


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> Just to be clear, this is everyone agreeing that yes, in fact, I am absolutely a Border Collie?
> 
> 😂😂😂😂


Hyper focused, lots of energy, picks up on complex instruction... yupp, it checks out.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> Just to be clear, this is everyone agreeing that yes, in fact, I am absolutely a Border Collie?
> 
> 😂😂😂😂


Ohh, and one more thing... makes up your own rules when you don't like the instruction given lolololol. Yupp, definite BC energy over here.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Hyper focused, lots of energy, picks up on complex instruction... yupp, it checks out.


Ahahahahhahaha omg I swear this crap does NOT happen in other people’s journals 😂😂😂


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Ohh, and one more thing... makes up your own rules when you don't like the instruction given lolololol. Yupp, definite BC energy over here.


Oh, I like this one a lot!


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Ahahahahhahaha omg I swear this crap does NOT happen in other people’s journals 😂😂😂


Because us others just fold like cheap suits 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Because us others just fold like cheap suits 😂


Well that’s just the thing, not really. In fact I just scrolled through your two threads to remind myself and make sure I haven’t got blinkers on, and in your 75g threadI don’t see anyone even mentioning CO2 until you yourself declare you’re installing it.

And over in the 20g thread, ok I didn’t re-read every page but I don’t remember anyone pushing you towards CO2 either. In fact, Big CO2 representative @Asteroid himself sends you mini pellia with the shrimp and says



Asteroid said:


> This is a low tech setup right? I haven't grown the mini pellia in low tech so I'll be interested to see how it grows.


Then you say ‘yeah this one will be staying low tech’ and he replies again with ‘cool, will be following’

Soooo.... shall we ponder together why you running a low tech tank is totally chill and me running a low tech tank gets me being compared to a cute but headstrong and unruly puppy? Hmmmmm.

By the way @EmotionalFescue this is not angled at you. You said ‘I’m hugely enthusiastic and overexcitable about my hobbies, you seem to have a similar personality.’ The Big CO2 Dream Team tagged onto that with ‘oh yeah you remind me of my dogs’. Not the same 😂


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

My assumption for why you are more directly targeted by Big CO2 is you're more active on the forum and start a lot of threads on maximizing results in your setup. I follow along in the background and only participate if I have a question specific to my situation that hasn't been addressed; but I have learned a ton from these threads so please don't stop starting them ha.

I absolutely understand where you're coming from and appreciate it as I have zero plans to go high-tech with my 20 long shrimp tank but want the plants to do as well as they can for the setup. I can also see the other side as it's easy to get bogged down in the minutia when the biggest obstacle you're facing is lack of CO2.

There is definitely a disconnect with what you're trying to accomplish though. I think @EmotionalFescue is coming in at that middle point of understanding your side while also saying he's not patient enough to go that route himself.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Big CO2 representative @Asteroid himself sends you mini pellia with the shrimp and says
> 
> Then you say ‘yeah this one will be staying low tech’ and he replies again with ‘cool, will be following’


How did my innocent mini pellia get dragged into this LOL. Since OP brought it up, how's it doing in low tech?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> How did my innocent mini pellia get dragged into this LOL. Since OP brought it up, how's it doing in low tech?


It’s dead, obviously. Nothing thrives in low tech 😂


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> It’s dead, obviously. Nothing thrives in low tech 😂


That's why I have a no return policy for low tech


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Aw don’t be sad, I’m sure @Virtus can confirm it’s thriving. 

Anyway, another interesting point to ponder:

Asteroid: ‘You remind me of my dog lolol’
Also Asteroid: ‘Don’t you dare malign my mini pellia!’ 😂


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Aw don’t be sad, I’m sure @Virtus can confirm it’s thriving.
> 
> Anyway, another interesting point to ponder:
> 
> ...


You dog must be amazing. LOL

I thought your had Pellia, not Mini Pellia


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> You dog must be amazing. LOL
> 
> I thought your had Pellia, not Mini Pellia


no brah, those are your quotes (well not word for word but the sentiments). You and jello were agreeing over how similar I seem in personality to your dogs.... and you defended the honor of your mini pellia when I mentioned it to illustrate you don’t go around incessantly pushing CO2 on everyone, just me.

I for my part have no dog, only a hamster and he is nothing like any of you people in terms of personality hahaha. And yes I have normal pellia and it’s thriving in low tech, thank you for asking


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Hey, I would love to be compared to a Border Collie. They have all of the best traits in great people without all of the drawbacks. They're super smart, hardworking, focused, energetic, and loyal. They also occasionally bite young children when they run around squealing for no reason. All plusses in my opinion.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> no brah, those are your quotes (well not word for word but the sentiments). You and jello were agreeing over how similar I seem in personality to your dogs.... and you defended the honor of your mini pellia when I mentioned it to illustrate you don’t go around incessantly pushing CO2 on everyone, just me.
> 
> I for my part have no dog, only a hamster and he is nothing like any of you people in terms of personality hahaha. And yes I have normal pellia and it’s thriving in low tech, thank you for asking


I don't think I ever brought up the dog comparison. That was started by EF and mentioned by Jello I believe. I just said I have a Sheepdog and can relate to Jello's experience with this Collies. But correct me if I'm wrong. 

Pellia is nothing like Mini Pellia. Can do fine in low tech with lower light, etc.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> How did my innocent mini pellia get dragged into this LOL. Since OP brought it up, how's it doing in low tech?


It’s filling in some and seems to be doing alright. At least most of my horrendous glue job isn’t visible anymore.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Virtus said:


> It’s filling in some and seems to be doing alright. At least most of my horrendous glue job isn’t visible anymore.


OK, good I could definitely see the new growth. I guess the quality of the plants helps even in low tech.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok all that weirdness aside.... man, anyone following this thread for the actual journal parts must be somewhere between heavily bored and deeply confused...... 

So yeah, snailzzz!! I have so many! The guy I was doing my last plant exchange with asked how many ramshorns I wanted and I was like I don’t know, what’s an appropriate number of snails to ask for? Give me some random amount! And he settled on 25 which, you know, is a whole lotta snails. 

The older ones had these weird white blips all around the rims of their shell and I worried they may be ill with something but all my googling turned up nothing similar... finally our resident snail and shrimp expert suggested they look a little like nerite eggs which they absolutely did. Snail donor confirmed there were nerites in the tank and that it is indeed possible that they have rudely laid eggs all over the ramshorns.

With no better theory in hand, and without finding any overly common snail pathogens that can do terrible harm to fish or humans (except flukes, omg I could have lived without more knowledge on flukes, hurrgh), and knowing the snails came from a store and then just spent years breeding in this nice dude’s tank, I decided it was not a dealbreaker. So I lifted out the big snails one by one and gave them a little scrub with my nail, the white things really felt under the nail like they were made from the same material as snail shell.... which could go in favor of them being nerite eggs? They came off easily enough and the shell underneath didn’t seem damaged. The ones that were stuck in the shell grooves I picked out with the tip of a knife, ever so gently, and soon all the snails were clean.

I pondered for a moment what to do about the coloration issue.... the snails came in pink and brown, and a few shades in between. The guy said he started out with all pink snails (he called them red, so I was imagining something wild, but it’s just normal pink ones) and over time they started throwing more and more brown, so I’m guessing it’s a bit like the shrimp, that without culling you get more and more wild genotypes. 

I decided on putting all the pink ones in the main tank, because Frank and Gary are already in there and they’re both pink. I put a few prettier brown ones into the Picklescape, so they can be pickles together with Chuglus and the gang. I already have another super cute little brown ramshorn in there, and Chuglus with his stunning pearly bronze shell.

I’m trying to work out snail shell things now. The first ramshorns I ever got were impossibly small, they came on some gifted plants. There was just one (Gary) who was big enough to be noticeable beyond a speck, his body was pink and his shell a stark chalk white... As he grew out though, Gary’s new shell came in a lovely translucent pearly color. Frank was a transparent baby when he came in but he grew really fast, almost caught up to Gary in size and his whole shell is the beautiful pearly color. 

Now the new snail army I got also has chalky white shells.... I’m trying to determine what is it about my water that makes the pretty pearly shells. First I was worrying the shells had been strong before and are now growing thin and weak in my low gH tank... but my tank is really not that low gH, lowest it ever hit was around 5, now it sits around 6.5...

Then I thought the white might actually be some sort of erosion, like from CO2 or something, but that doesn’t make sense either... because the first guy I got them from definitely didn’t run any CO2 (spectacular tanks tho), and the second guy says the tank had CO2 before but he had just stopped refilling it about a year ago..... so if that was the difference it should be showing on the shells.... like Gary, his shell is literally still chalk white in the old part and there’s a clear line of the new pearly shell growing out....

I’m very curious what is affecting the shells and are the pearly shells in fact healthier than the dusty chalky looking ones. I hope they are, they sure look way nicer.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Oh yeah forgot to add, the remaining few brown ones now live in the emersed plant jars on the coffee table. Which, you know, are just regular jars and it is in no way concerning that they are harboring life now. I change out their water twice a week and I’m feeding them bits of wafer/ shrimp food from time to time in case the jars aren’t providing enough biofilm. 

In the main tank the baffle basket hijinx continue, All The Snails have now discovered the baffle Matrix is covered with tasty stuff so they all climb in there and then get spun in the flow like in a washing machine centrifuge cycle. They don’t seem to be getting hurt so I’ll let them get on with it until the new baffle comes. The dampener basket was a great makeshift solution but it has proven to have a lot of small implementation niggles so I’ll be happy when the new baffle arrives. 

By the way the baffle guy (who is @Virtus ’s baffle guy) is amazingly nice, Galaxy Glow Studios I think it’s called, on Etsy, and he also pointed me towards the Poth-O-Carry guy who agreed to make me a custom emersed plant basket that will let me keep my lid on and also hopefully let me keep my shrimp safely in the tank. 

I’m super excited about both of those, they should both be cool improvements.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> By the way the baffle guy (who is @Virtus ’s baffle guy) is amazingly nice, Galaxy Glow Studios I think it’s called, on Etsy, and he also pointed me towards the Poth-O-Carry guy who agreed to make me a custom emersed plant basket that will let me keep my lid on and also hopefully let me keep my shrimp safely in the tank.


That's awesome. Can't wait to see everything set-up!

How will the emersed plant basket work with the lid on? I've been thinking about getting a Poth-O-Carry Versa or Versa Max to do a Monstera in my 75g. The Poth-o-Carry Plus' I have are amazing for Pothos. Also, the Poth-O-Carry guy recently joined the forum - @Matt at Poth-O-Carry


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> jellopuddinpop said:
> 
> 
> > Ohh, and one more thing... makes up your own rules when you don't like the instruction given lolololol. Yupp, definite BC energy over here.
> ...


This is you vibing with the dog thing, don’t try to wash your hands of it now and leave Jello alone in a lurch 😂



jellopuddinpop said:


> Hey, I would love to be compared to a Border Collie. They have all of the best traits in great people without all of the drawbacks. They're super smart, hardworking, focused, energetic, and loyal. They also occasionally bite young children when they run around squealing for no reason. All plusses in my opinion.


For sure, dogs are cool, Collies especially, I’m not offended and I get that absolutely no offense was intended. But we have to be clear about the implications of things. However much you love your dogs, your dog is not your equal.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> That's awesome. Can't wait to see everything set-up!
> 
> How will the emersed plant basket work with the lid on? I've been thinking about getting a Poth-O-Carry Versa or Versa Max to do a Monstera in my 75g. The Poth-o-Carry Plus' I have are amazing for Pothos. Also, the Poth-O-Carry guy recently joined the forum - @Matt at Poth-O-Carry


Well, I/we came up with a genius design where the basket will be just a tad smaller than the opening on the lid (There are a few places where the lid is scored so you can take pieces out to add an extra filter or whatever, we're using the measurements of one of those) but there is a flat lip around the top rim that is just a little larger than said opening..... so the lip will make sure the basket is snugly resting on the lid and it should work a treat. I just have to line the inside with some sort of mesh so I don't get intrepid shrimp and snails climbing out and getting lost. 

This is what I sent him as a guide, it's a little rough but should give the idea: (the holes won't be so long, I just slapped those on to illustrate the perspective)


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> This is you vibing with the dog thing, don’t try to wash your hands of it now and leave Jello alone in a lurch 😂


Vibing OK, but I didn't lend any creative content.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Vibing OK, but I didn't lend any creative content.


You were aiding and abetting, don’t fight it 😂


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Did you ever get shrimplets in the 29G?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Did you ever get shrimplets in the 29G?


Only two confirmed ones. They’re getting pretty big by now. Others were demolished by the chilis I think.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So in case you wanna know how my pickles are doing.... 








Picklescape is still going solid. Pickled AR is emersing again which is frankly becoming a tad annoying. I might have to move it over to the big tank. (Reader, there is no room in the big tank. Things will have to be Moved Around TM)

The only plant NOT doing better in the Picklescape is the hornwort. It’s still growing like mad mind you, just not as big and nice looking as in the main tank. Everything else- ludwigia super red, ludwigia repens, AR, moss, buce and anubias are all doing equally or better in the jar. 








I was talking to someone else here today who also finds things thriving better in the non- filtered jar than in their proper tank... it seems counterintuitive but I’ve heard other people say it too. I’m very curious why.

The differences I can think of between tank and jar:

jar has far smaller water volume
jar has no filtration/ water movement
jar has lower pH (around 6.8-6.6 to the tank’s 7.2-7.4)
jar has lower kH (around 1.5 to the tank’s 3)
jar has sand substrate vs tank’s flourite sand which is more granular
jar has far weaker light

In spite of the wildly low light, one single AR leaf had gotten a few strings of hair algae, as the light is basically a single LED diode and it was very close to the water surface/focused on that one leaf. I raised it a bit. 

Look at the weird things those tiny buce leaves are doing, it’s like a golden/olive sort of color... I’m pretty sure that is another bit of the same buce that is pretty blue in the main tank. Here it literally looks like it’s wearing gold dust eyeshadow. Those leaves are still tiny so I’m really curious how they will grow out.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I finally have diatoms!!!! In the Murder Bucket!!! 😂 The few stems of Ludwigia super red in there are covered in clouds of diatoms. 

Finally I can put my diatom fomo to rest.

So what do we think, guys? Do I cycle the Murder Bucket?!? 😂


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

I think I'm following your journey not only for the updates and experiments, but also for that post we all know is coming: "ugh, I broke down and bought another tank" 😂


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## plantnoobdude (Jun 25, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> jar has far smaller water volume
> jar has no filtration/ water movement
> jar has lower pH (around 6.8-6.6 to the tank’s 7.2-7.4)
> jar has lower kH (around 1.5 to the tank’s 3)
> ...


lower light... less co2 demand, less fert demand. problems, nutrient interaction become much less "acute" if that makes sense.
lower kh... easier uptake of nutrients
lower light makes your systems inefficiencies unseen, running highlight (max power babyyy) makes you run into more issues. you can correct them, or just lower light untill they reside, your choice.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> I think I'm following your journey not only for the updates and experiments, but also for that post we all know is coming: "ugh, I broke down and bought another tank" 😂


I shall endeavor to make the whole experience maximally exciting for all you pro-MTS onlookers by hanging on as long as humanly possible


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

plantnoobdude said:


> lower light... less co2 demand, less fert demand. problems, nutrient interaction become much less "acute" if that makes sense.
> lower kh... easier uptake of nutrients
> lower light makes your systems inefficiencies unseen, running highlight (max power babyyy) makes you run into more issues. you can correct them, or just lower light untill they reside, your choice.


So everything is doing well because the light sucks? Hmmm, that's pretty cool actually! 

What does it mean when 'nutrient interaction becomes less acute'? Plants grow slower? Or is it more complex than that?


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## plantnoobdude (Jun 25, 2021)

LidijaPN said:


> So everything is doing well because the light sucks? Hmmm, that's pretty cool actually!
> 
> What does it mean when 'nutrient interaction becomes less acute'? Plants grow slower? Or is it more complex than that?


just my opinion ofcourse.



LidijaPN said:


> nutrient


let me try explain it with an analogy,
if you were a competitive athlete you really want to micro manage what you eat, (high tech). gaining weight, not enough carbs whatever and you'll see your performance drop.

now say you're an ordinary joe who occasionally walks to the super market, (low tech) eat whatever you want and you won't really notice a difference in your trips. low light makes the systems inefficiencies "go away".



LidijaPN said:


> Plants grow slower?


essentially yeah, plants grow slower, not pushed to their limits. just a generally a slower more laid back ordinary Joe approach.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

plantnoobdude said:


> just my opinion ofcourse.
> 
> 
> let me try explain it with an analogy,
> ...


Works for me!! ♥ The analogy is good. If the system is pushed to its limits every change carries weight and impacts performance. If you’re already happy to move at strolling pace instead of full run, individual things won’t impact progress so much.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I did a slightly bigger water change today to see how everyone likes it... I’ve heard of some people doing 15-20% weekly but then once a month a bigger one like 30-40% to shake things up a little... I did 40 today, I’ll see tomorrow how everyone liked it.

I found spots for my massive free anubias, ‘spots’ plural because I ended up chopping the rhizome in 2, it’s just too big. I weighted one segment down with a small rock and glued the other to my poor wood which is getting plants glued to it left and right. I also glued the bolbitis stems to a small rock so now everyone has a home of sorts.

I feel the ‘natural selection’ we had talked about is slowly happening perhaps. Certain plants are thriving and others seem to struggle. I’d still love to capture a wild aqua-botanist and pelt them with questions while making them stare at my tank, but instead I guess I just have to stare at it until something genius occurs to me.

The indica is re-stunting again but I won’t make any decisions about it until my new baffle comes... then we’ll see whether my flow theory was right.

I’m very curious what this tank will look like in a year. Some things are doing so well and really taking off, others are struggling... also some are really attractive to me and others are kinda annoying. But I feel bad just chucking out a species.

I might have to, finally.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

In other news, @Matt at Poth-O-Carry delivered the goods!! He just sent me pics of my planter basket-to-be

















And this is the space on the lid where it should slot in, fingers crossed we nailed the dimensions lol









I can’t wait to set it up. In ideal terms it would probably be even better if it were a touch bigger, but the slot tied our hands.... I still think it will be awesome!!! I had all but given up on having emersed plants because no solution I could come up with would work without either losing my lid or changing my filter. Then Matt totally saved the day ♥♥♥


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

In fact this whole emersed plants situation really makes me consider the growth path of the entire tank in a way. When I started out I had no concept of emersed plants. I got a tank with a lid and a HoB that can't really take plants. If I had known about the idea from the start I'd probably have gone with one of those Aquaclear filters people turn into hanging gardens.... 

Anyway once I found out about emersed plants I immediately tried a hack solution of just sticking them into my filter baffle basket, another hack solution I implemented to slow my flow. So that was problematic in many ways, as first it made removing the lid at water changes hugely complex with all the plants tipping and falling about, and it also gave shrimp a direct staircase out of the tank, which Lemon used to climb to crispy freedom, I'm still not over that, RIP Lemon you were the best shrimp. You do get a Darwin Award for that plant climbing stunt tho. 

So when the filter thing didn't work I considered losing the lid, but that carried a bunch of its own problems, how to suspend the light, do I then change out the light as well, etc etc, not good. 

Then I considered getting a different lid that is more customizable but again expense complication what to do with the light etc etc, again not good.

Then I stuffed the pothos into a tall glass on the kitchen windowsill and I tried inserting the others into the Pickle Jar. This was superbly annoying because objectively the plants were too big, there was no real way to support them, they covered too much of my table, I was always worried about damaging leaves, plus their massive annoying roots kept bumping and bothering things in the Jararium, knocking anubias off the stone etc etc. Not good. 

Then I considered chucking the emersed plants I'd gotten from my amazing local aquarist group (at this stage I had a baby monstera, a solid sized peace lily and a bunch of very lively pothos, all living in jars and glasses around the house and gazing longingly at the tank) because it was just not working out. But I just couldn't bring myself to chuck out healthy thriving plants people had bothered to travel across town to give me, it felt deeply wrong. So I kept rolling with the jars but constantly thinking wtf do I do with this. 

Then when I was getting the baffle (final solution hopefully for another issue that had been limping along with hack makeshift setups since the beginning) I asked the Baffle Guy if he could 3D print a planter basket just like he prints baffles.... and he was like well try Matt because he does those already and if he can't help, I'll try. But Matt did help and was awesome and here we are. 

The really interesting thing in all this is how from every stage there was no way to look ahead and see the next stages in the future...... You just have to roll along with whatever knowledge/awareness level you're at until you level up I guess.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

LidijaPN said:


> The really interesting thing in all this is how from every stage there was no way to look ahead and see the next stages in the future...... You just have to roll along with whatever knowledge/awareness level you're at until you level up I guess.


Yep, totally. This is why I have shelves of fish tank miscellany in the basement. Sometimes you just don't know if something will work out until you try it.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> The really interesting thing in all this is how from every stage there was no way to look ahead and see the next stages in the future...... You just have to roll along with whatever knowledge/awareness level you're at until you level up I guess.





EmotionalFescue said:


> Yep, totally. This is why I have shelves of fish tank miscellany in the basement. Sometimes you just don't know if something will work out until you try it.


One of the benefits of my impulsiveness is that I'm usually still within the return window by the time I figure out I'm upgrading! 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> Yep, totally. This is why I have shelves of fish tank miscellany in the basement. Sometimes you just don't know if something will work out until you try it.


Yap. I think this is also why it doesn't always work to just get advice from people who are, like, 20 years ahead of you. Like you're just not at the same place mentally as they are.... Of course it's cool to learn from the mistakes of others but there is a process of mental absorption that has to happen I find. 



Virtus said:


> One of the benefits of my impulsiveness is that I'm usually still within the return window by the time I figure out I'm upgrading! 😂


Hahahah you've found a solution on the other side of the patience and growth spectrum 😂 I've heard it said somewhere that most problems either have multiple viable solutions, or none at all. Few are the problems that only have one single solution.... I really find it true in life.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

LidijaPN said:


> I think this is also why it doesn't always work to just get advice from people who are, like, 20 years ahead of you. Like you're just not at the same place mentally as they are


100%

Some folks may be able to effectively draft off others by seeking and implementing advice, but that's not how it worked for me. I just had to try things out for myself. Trying and seeing the results would lead to lightbulb moments that were springboards into new directions. Once I had some direction I could productively sift through and absorb what others had to say (years ago in old TPT threads, usually), but I couldn't effectively start with that.

Probably largely comes down to learning style I guess. I have to work things out myself for them to stick.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I know that this will come as a surprise to many of you (or maybe not so much hahah), but someone locally is selling their stuff so I've decided to get a little 20g with a CO2 setup.....


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> So I know that this will come as a surprise to many of you (or maybe not so much hahah), but someone locally is selling their stuff so I've decided to get a little 20g with a CO2 setup.....


Is this a trick? I feel like it's a trick!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> Is this a trick? I feel like it's a trick!


hahahah yeah totally, I barely wrote it with a straight face.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I really feel that this thread is more than just a bunch of us talking about fish and plants... we’ve bonded in here, laughed, argued, became a bit like family. And what’s a family without a few good random pranks, amirite?

Anyway, what I actually AM considering setting up, though maybe not immediately, is an emersed tub. There was a cool thread on how to do it and I have everything needed pretty much except a light.... and the way those run I could shove it into a closet somewhere and avoid husbandly wrath... which should let me get some species out of the tank because they will be growing safely emersed in the closet tub and I wouldn’t feel bad about chucking them out of the tank any more. 

Maybe I do it once the hamster croaks since I doubt we’ll be getting another one and his enormous cage would be the perfect thing for an emersed tub... actually maybe I make a smaller one. 

Another thing I’ve been thinking about is my CO2 levels. Like, you know how when you’re running CO2 everyone talks about the pH drop but nobody considers this in the low tech tank..... but there is CO2 in a low tech tank too, can it be measured by the same method? But would it be reverse because no CO2 is being added during the photo period, just used up?


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

In the words of George W Bush: "fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice.....I won't be fooled again". 

I saw your post and waited before responding because I couldn't believe what I was reading lol.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

So, totally not so random thought for our resident dinky diarist that I have been pondering.... When it comes to the fert pump bottle, has the top been fully unscrewed so it can travel the full vertical range of motion?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> In the words of George W Bush: "fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice.....I won't be fooled again".
> 
> I saw your post and waited before responding because I couldn't believe what I was reading lol.


Smart man!! You all pass the test, you know me too well 😂



Chucker said:


> So, totally not so random thought for our resident dinky diarist that I have been pondering.... When it comes to the fert pump bottle, has the top been fully unscrewed so it can travel the full vertical range of motion?


Hmmmm I think so? But I’ll test and confirm!! Anyway I’m syringing now but would still be fun to know.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> So, totally not so random thought for our resident dinky diarist that I have been pondering.... When it comes to the fert pump bottle, has the top been fully unscrewed so it can travel the full vertical range of motion?


Yapp just tried to twist it every which way and nope, it’s as rotated as it’s gonna get... also loads of other people seem to be having the same pump dosing issue. Does yours deliver the full 2ml per pump? I find it difficult to believe as mine is like.... 0.3??


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> I really feel that this thread is more than just a bunch of us talking about fish and plants... we’ve bonded in here, laughed, argued, became a bit like family. And what’s a family without a few good random pranks, amirite?
> 
> Anyway, what I actually AM considering setting up, though maybe not immediately, is an emersed tub. There was a cool thread on how to do it and I have everything needed pretty much except a light.... and the way those run I could shove it into a closet somewhere and avoid husbandly wrath... which should let me get some species out of the tank because they will be growing safely emersed in the closet tub and I wouldn’t feel bad about chucking them out of the tank any more.
> 
> ...


You might be able to measure it, but there's no real point. Just before lights on the CO2 will be somewhere between 2 and 3 ppm. Within a half hour of lights on, you'll be at zero.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> You might be able to measure it, but there's no real point. Just before lights on the CO2 will be somewhere between 2 and 3 ppm. Within a half hour of lights on, you'll be at zero.


In other words, the co2 is too dinky to make measuring it significant.  

@LidijaPN if you want to increase co2 without injection then use dirt. Walstad has stated she found co2 levels going up to the 8-10 range. When co2 runs out, she invokes the seista period so co2 is able to build back up again. Maybe this is a "dirt" path you should follow.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> In other words, the co2 is too dinky to make measuring it significant.
> 
> @LidijaPN if you want to increase co2 without injection then use dirt. Walstad has stated she found co2 levels going up to the 8-10 range. When co2 runs out, she invokes the seista period so co2 is able to build back up again. Maybe this is a "dirt" path you should follow.


I do very much like that idea, but I’m not sure I’m ready to rip up my whole setup right now as there would be many sacrifices along the way I’m sure. But in the future I’ll definitely try dirt in mesh bags under the flourite. In fact I had considered dirting the jar, because that would be painless enough, but honestly things are already growing a little TOO well in the jar and it doesn’t have space to accommodate any acceleration. And so far Jar Things haven’t adapted well to the tank, still not sure why. 

By the way, if CO2 change isn’t what’s making my pH move around during the day (and it probably isn’t because the numbers don’t make sense in that context), what is it? I have markedly lower pH during the photo period and markedly higher during lights out. Is this A Thing?

Also if there is next to zero CO2 in my water for most of the time, how are any plants dealing at all? Are there plants who just..... don’t need it? What do we think about Sudipta’s tank, magic? Or was his being saved by the aquasoil that makes CO2 like dirt does?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> I do very much like that idea, but I’m not sure I’m ready to rip up my whole setup right now as there would be many sacrifices along the way I’m sure. But in the future I’ll definitely try dirt in mesh bags under the flourite. In fact I had considered dirting the jar, because that would be painless enough, but honestly things are already growing a little TOO well in the jar and it doesn’t have space to accommodate any acceleration. And so far Jar Things haven’t adapted well to the tank, still not sure why.
> 
> By the way, if CO2 change isn’t what’s making my pH move around during the day (and it probably isn’t because the numbers don’t make sense in that context), what is it? I have markedly lower pH during the photo period and markedly higher during lights out. Is this A Thing?
> 
> Also if there is next to zero CO2 in my water for most of the time, how are any plants dealing at all? Are there plants who just..... don’t need it? What do we think about Sudipta’s tank, magic? Or was his being saved by the aquasoil that makes CO2 like dirt does?


Yes I think Sudipta made it clear that the tank was getting most co2 from the substrate. 



sudiorca said:


> ..This is one of the primary reasons why I am quite certain that the plants are mainly getting CO2 from sediment rather than atmospheric dissolution of atmospheric CO2.


I asked him about that in regards to the HOB and surface tension off-gassing. Old aquasoil can be close to dirt depending on situation. BTW he's not running a low light system his par was very high and I believe he was utilizing sunlight as well. Planting heavily, low fish stock, low temps he was able to avoid algae and get some co2 going.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> Also if there is next to zero CO2 in my water for most of the time, how are any plants dealing at all? Are there plants who just..... don’t need it? What do we think about Sudipta’s tank, magic? Or was his being saved by the aquasoil that makes CO2 like dirt does?


Plants can get carbon from Carbonates in the water, but it's not very efficient.

I'm not a botanist or anything so I don't know the names of the cells or structures responsible for biological functions, but I know that plants will change and adapt to their environment. Let's say that plants have special cells that we'll call Carbonate Suckers. In a low CO2 environment, new growth can have an abundance of Carbonate Suckers, at the expense of Nitrogen Suckers, Phosphorus Suckers, Chlorophyll, etc... They can get carbon from the water, but will struggle to take in other things as a result.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

The


jellopuddinpop said:


> Plants can get carbon from Carbonates in the water, but it's not very efficient.
> 
> I'm not a botanist or anything so I don't know the names of the cells or structures responsible for biological functions, but I know that plants will change and adapt to their environment. Let's say that plants have special cells that we'll call Carbonate Suckers. In a low CO2 environment, new growth can have an abundance of Carbonate Suckers, at the expense of Nitrogen Suckers, Phosphorus Suckers, Chlorophyll, etc... They can get carbon from the water, but will struggle to take in other things as a result.


oh look, I found a scientific illustration of a Carbonate Sucker!








But yeah I get what you’re saying. Someone who actually is a botanist was explaining that too, that the plant reinvents itself to best suit its environment and can make extra cells for purposes that are immediately useful. Which is why sometimes it takes longer than we think to see if a plant can thrive in our setup... it can look like it’s struggling but it’s really just reinventing itself. It’s a pretty cool superpower.

Although not like my carbonates are particularly high either, so. But higher carbonates would give higher pH which would impede absorption, so. 

Although now that I think about it, would it be beneficial to increase carbonate hardness/ph somewhat, thus allowing more CO absorption but also limit nutrient intake but that could be cool because everything would get in line with each other?



Asteroid said:


> Yes I think Sudipta made it clear that the tank was getting most co2 from the substrate.
> I asked him about that in regards to the HOB and surface tension off-gassing. Old aquasoil can be close to dirt depending on situation. BTW he's not running a low light system his par was very high and I believe he was utilizing sunlight as well. Planting heavily, low fish stock, low temps he was able to avoid algae and get some co2 going.


Yep I remember him running very high PAR and I still don’t get how that fits the equation. Like ok, soil gives nutrients and some CO. Cold temperature (was it around 20c? Or just over that? But he did say in summer it got warmer...) slows plant metabolism. But then the high par pushes things forward. Shouldn’t that drive his plants to want more CO2 than they can get? But it didn’t seem to...

Another question is the question of plant quantity. More plants spend more CO2, so maybe having fewer plants would actually let them individually do better? Are there specific plants which use more CO2 per square inch of plant than others?


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> Although now that I think about it, would it be beneficial to increase carbonate hardness/ph somewhat, thus allowing more CO absorption but also limit nutrient intake but that could be cool because everything would get in line with each other?


No, not at all. I think a KH of 2 or 3 would provide more carbonates than the plants could ever take in. Remember, it's not a very efficient process at all. Back to the metaphors, it's like trying to race in your Honda Accord. Giving it a bigger gas tank isn't going to make it go faster, it can only use so much gas. They cannot get enough carbon from the water to truly present their best. 



LidijaPN said:


> Another question is the question of plant quantity. More plants spend more CO2, so maybe having fewer plants would actually let them individually do better? Are there specific plants which use more CO2 per square inch of plant than others?


No, they're not going to be very efficient at taking the carbonates from the water. A tank full of plants wouldn't deplete even 2 or 3 KH worth of carbonate, and even just a few plants will consume any free CO2 in the water from the atmosphere or livestock. You're better with a lot of plants to keep organics down.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Alrighty. We have 2.25 kH so that’s fine then, the fish like it low so I’ll keep it there. 

For plants, plan of action:


add new baffle, observe for changes
wait for adapting/ converting plants to either convert or to let out shoots that have a shot at being converted, and see who’s in decent shape and who is just not cutting it
remove The Weak
propagate The Strong


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So we have two new berried shrimp!! Let’s see if they do better this time around! The chilis have been deeply subdued since the embers came, I’m sure some have been lost, I only see an odd one during feeding. They could all be just down in their Morlock underbrush but I feel like they have been considerably weakened... I feel genuinely bad about that, they were the first and in many ways I still like them best, I wish the tank was still their domain. But silver linings - it might give the shrimp a better chance. Time will tell! 

I suppose it’s time for a sort of Hunger Games style plant observation, with winners getting to stay in the tank and losers getting either stuffed into an emersed grow out bucket or just out. It will be a long process as some plants seem sort of on the edge, like they could do well if things were minimally adjusted... or just given time to adapt.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> So we have two new berried shrimp!! Let’s see if they do better this time around! The chilis have been deeply subdued since the embers came, I’m sure some have been lost, I only see an odd one during feeding. They could all be just down in their Morlock underbrush but I feel like they have been considerably weakened... I feel genuinely bad about that, they were the first and in many ways I still like them best, I wish the tank was still their domain. But silver linings - it might give the shrimp a better chance. Time will tell!
> 
> I suppose it’s time for a sort of Hunger Games style plant observation, with winners getting to stay in the tank and losers getting either stuffed into an emersed grow out bucket or just out. It will be a long process as some plants seem sort of on the edge, like they could do well if things were minimally adjusted... or just given time to adapt.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I just came back from Home Depot and boy was it exciting!!! 

So first off, whenever I go to Home Depot I feel like I’m trespassing. I keep expecting someone to walk up and ask me to leave. ‘Ma’am, we do require everyone shopping here to have at least a basic idea of what they’re looking for, and it is clear by your far-away look that you possess no such knowledge. I’m very sorry but I must escort you to the exit.’ 

Anyway, the feeling of being on the hallowed grounds of some ancient temple ruins and guessing with wild inaccuracy what the scattered artifacts were actually used for is exacerbated by the size and hollow emptiness of the store, with aisle after aisle of tubes, pipes, tiles and drill bits and next to no one to ask about any of them.

I sort of winged it, finding first what seemed like the right sort of tube after a random and rare Employee Dude straight up told me they don’t have anything like that.... a photo from their website helped him figure it out so I got the tubing sorted first. The sizing of tubes with insanely random imperial measures really didn’t help any and finally a kind shopper took pity on me and helped me work it out somewhat.... like the 3/4’’ tube actually has a 5/8’’ internal diameter, unless it actually has a 1/2’’ internal diameter because there are different thicknesses, but the 5/8’’ internal diameter tube which is actually labeled as a 3/4’’ tube because that’s its external diameter needs a 1/2’’ elbow fitting, which, you know, of course it does, because why the hell not. 

Then nobody knew where the elbow fittings actually were, except for the copper ones, which made me shudder big time, my poor shrimpies. Then I found some elbow fittings that were plastic, and fit my tube, and were also marked 3/4’’, which was a pleasant surprise, but they only had five. 

Then while meandering helplessly in the aisle hoping to ask someone when they might get more, finally the Gods of Plumbing looked down upon me with kindness and pity and a Guy Who Knows Things walked by, told me no there aren’t any more of those fittings but they’re the wrong fittings anyway, those are PEX tube fittings (but of course! How could I have been so blind!) and what I needed was these other type fittings, which were size 1/2’’, which makes perfect sense because they were identical in size to the 3/4’’ ones and both fit neatly inside the 5/8’’ tube. Rrrright.

It’s also painful when they’re like ‘oh, what do you need this item for?’ And I’m like ‘....reasons? Can we not get into it and you just point me to the tubes?’ Also all of this happened in French, so. I’ve got a new vocabulary set now. 

....So now I’ve got the tubes and the fittings and my submersible water pump has arrived today and I’m putting together a very appropriately dinky thing for my little dinky tank, more to come when I do some preliminary measurements!


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

This is all very strange... there's schedule 40 and schedule 80, which is the wall thickness. The elbows are never meant to go inside the pipe though, always outside. A 3/4 elbow goes on 3/4" pipe, on the outside of the pipe. 

Did you buy white or black pipe?

If you bought black pipe, you also need ABS cement to glue them together. If you bought white pipe, then you either primer and PVC cement or the blue "outdoors" PVC cement.

Gosh, I never really though of how complicated "simple" home repair stuff is.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> This is all very strange... there's schedule 40 and schedule 80, which is the wall thickness. The elbows are never meant to go inside the pipe though, always outside. A 3/4 elbow goes on 3/4" pipe, on the outside of the pipe.
> 
> Did you buy white or black pipe?
> 
> ...


It’s not pipe tho, it’s like vinyl tubing? Transparent. Dude said I should take the fittings that go inside. He mentioned no cement, but to his credit I didn’t ask.

It’s really quite awful when you are trying to do this stuff because everything always has a thousand more parameters and sizings and things you’re supposed to just magically know. Hurgh.

Anyway the outside thing makes sense because the PEX fittings were marked 3/4’’... but actually it doesn’t make sense because they would definitely not be able to go over a 3/4’’ PEX pipe because they fit INSIDE my vinyl tube with a 5/8’’ inside diameter.

Basically whoever made any of these systems and measurements was drunk.

Also the thickness is measured in 40 and 80 what?? Gnats? Blinks? Ferret farts? Why are all the measurements here so nonsensical?!?!?


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Ohhhhhhhh yupp, you're right. I completely misread what you wrote. No wonder I was so confused. Completely ignore that whole post lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Ohhhhhhhh yupp, you're right. I completely misread what you wrote. No wonder I was so confused. Completely ignore that whole post lol.


See? Even the people who get it don’t get it! It’s so random!! Imagine what it’s like for us poor souls who have never messed with this stuff anyway.

In other news I bought a sweet pepper plantlet and a bunch of herbs for my balcony. It’s funny, growing plants with limitations is apparently my destiny. On the balcony there’s no CO2 shortage but it only gets half day sun, in the afternoons... nevertheless what did I plant there last year? Sunflowers!! Of course I did, it fits the theme of trying to grow inappropriate things for your conditions. Anyway they grew and even flowered, though the flowers were just 10-15cm across, not behemoths like sunflowers usually are. The herbs did really well tho. I had mint coming out of my ears.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> See? Even the people who get it don’t get it! It’s so random!! Imagine what it’s like for us poor souls who have never messed with this stuff anyway.
> 
> In other news I bought a sweet pepper plantlet and a bunch of herbs for my balcony. It’s funny, growing plants with limitations is apparently my destiny. On the balcony there’s no CO2 shortage but it only gets half day sun, in the afternoons... nevertheless what did I plant there last year? Sunflowers!! Of course I did, it fits the theme of trying to grow inappropriate things for your conditions. Anyway they grew and even flowered, though the flowers were just 10-15cm across, not behemoths like sunflowers usually are. The herbs did really well tho. I had mint coming out of my ears.


Mint is the bane of my existence. I had a really bad rabbit problem, and nothing I tried kept them out of my vegetable garden. Someone told me that planting mint around the garden would keep them out, and with nothing left to lose, I tried it. I now how more mint than grass in my yard, I spend the whole summer pulling mint from the garden, and there's no end in sight. This sh!t is unbearable!


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

I have a couple funny stories about Canada and French. 

Right before the plague took over the world I was going up to Toronto for a kick off meeting with my client, RBC. This was mid February 2020 so air travel had already been shut down between the US and China...I believe it was shut down at the end of January and the president was called racist, but then a couple months later people were saying he didn't shut it down fast enough 🤷 gotta love American hyper partisan politics. 

Anyway, I had been keeping tabs on the pandemic when I saw videos in late December that looked like a zombie apocalypse was kicking off in China. There were people laying dead in their subways, on the streets, etc. So I did what any other sane American would do.....I ordered a year supply of freeze dried food lol. I had no idea where I was going to put it since I was living in an apartment, but based on what I saw, I thought something far worse than what we all went through was about to happen. And then I close a deal with RBC and have to go up there for a week to kick the project off. 

When I arrived at the airport, they weren't checking temps, or really anything aside from asking me why I'm coming to Canada. After the first day of the kickoff, I took the whole client team out for dinner that evening. They began speaking negatively of the people from Quebec. I found this a little strange, but figured it was like people speaking negatively of Californians, or Floridians. 

Despite being your southern neighbor, I never really had interactions with a lot of Canadians. Canada was never a territory I focused on for work, so my interactions were limited. I can very easily offend people with jokes. It's a rare talent, and usually when I do it it's not on purpose lol. I figured what the heck, so I read the room and told them my story about my boss at another company sending me a lead to a Canadian company because we recently fired our Canadian rep. 

I picked up the phone after getting the email and dialed the number. A woman answered the phone and started speaking French. So I did what any rational person would do, I hung up lol. I thought I dialed international and somehow managed to call someone in France hahaha. I googled the company and looked at their main phone number and it was a similar number except the four last digits were different because I was calling a direct extension. So I called again and she answered again and started speaking what sounded like French gibberish (I don't speak French) and I didn't say anything until she stopped and was like "umm, hi, I'm looking for Pierre". She loudly sighed, then started speaking English with an attitude lol. 

When I told this story to my clients literally the whole table of 12 people erupted in laughter. I was then clued into why they thought it was so funny and I didn't know this but it seems that most of Canada looks down on Quebec lol. The main guy I was dealing with who was at dinner with us laughed and said that the "sigh" is exactly what happens when you don't speak French. They all said a lot of derogatory things about Quebec, which I won't repeat, but it suddenly made sense. 

I actually took French in high school, but I couldn't even have a simple conversation with a French child lol. It was one of those classes where you do the bare minimum to pass....an easy credit. 

I can see how plumbing can be complicated if you've never worked with pipes before. Most homeowners don't really deal with pressure water lines, or drain lines. They're mostly just working on sink drains, and supply lines from the shutoff valves to the faucets. When I worked in the trades, plumbing specifically, when I first started I had no idea what anything was. I remember being asked to grab a street 45 and came back with a 90 lol. That was the first fitting I had whipped at me lol. 

Vinyl tubing is such a pain though. Usually they'll list the I.D. and O.D. either on the label or on the tubing itself (inner diameter, outer diameter). Glad you got what you needed though. Don't feel bad about having trouble finding stuff. I think most of us if we're going to HD to buy something we've never bought before, we tend to have trouble too.


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Mint is the bane of my existence. I had a really bad rabbit problem, and nothing I tried kept them out of my vegetable garden. Someone told me that planting mint around the garden would keep them out, and with nothing left to lose, I tried it. I now how more mint than grass in my yard, I spend the whole summer pulling mint from the garden, and there's no end in sight. This sh!t is unbearable!


I've always hated mint as well. Until I discovered Mojitos. During the summer I'll drink them on the weekends when sitting outside. The problem is that they're so refreshing that after knocking back several of them, the effects begin to take hold and before too long I'm lit up


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> I've always hated mint as well. Until I discovered Mojitos. During the summer I'll drink them on the weekends when sitting outside. The problem is that they're so refreshing that after knocking back several of them, the effects begin to take hold and before too long I'm lit up


Basil mojitos are where it’s at!!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Y’all weird lol

Yes everyone hates Quebec and Quebec hates everyone. It’s the only francophone part of the country. There are francophone communities in all other provinces, and all provinces are formally bilingual, in Toronto you can always ask for any govt service to be provided in French (or a bunch of other languages really) and they will do it. Quebec is formally unilingual tho, they wanted to leave the union and were finally negotiated into staying but one of their conditions was they didn’t have to be bilingual. They have an immense bee in their bonnet about French and keep taking small rights away from anglophones, cutting down the scopes of English schools, now they’re literally trying to make it illegal for any public employee (including, say, emergency room doctors) to speak to you in any language other than French. 

But, there’s a history to this madness. The French were the first here, all of Canada was francophone at one point. Then the British came and sort of inserted themselves as the New Management. I don’t know the exact history because my kid didn’t get to that lesson yet (we’re still at the fully French stage, La Nouvelle France) but essentially French has been pushed back and has been losing numbers since then, because obviously more immigrants come speaking (or willing to learn) English than French. So Quebec is standing like the last bastion of francophone Canada and it is deeply tied to their identity so I take the sighs and rudeness in good spirit. I’ve become pretty darn fluent in the last 3 years, since I started earnestly trying to learn, it’s just when I need specialized terminology like plumbing I do get a bit stuck. 

Mint is the shizz, I would rather have a mint lawn than a grass lawn. I shove it into everything. Basil is amazing also but such a drama queen. Mint would survive a nuclear apocalypse, basil withers if you look at it too sternly.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Also yeah I totally don’t feel bad about not understanding plumbing stuff. My mind sort of thrives on information overload so any area I can get into where there is a ton of stuff I don’t understand feels like Christmas. I wrote it up like irritation to sound funny I guess but I absolutely adore my visits to Home Depot. I have very little knowledge about DIY stuff but a huge interest, so it’s like visiting a mystical exotic land.

And on French in QC - one time at the start (so, 5 years ago I guess) we phoned the... electric company, I think? And they had the automated menu and at one point among all the French it said ‘for service in English, press 2’ and when you press 2, it hangs up on you 😂 The message was very clear.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> So I just came back from Home Depot and boy was it exciting!!!
> 
> So first off, whenever I go to Home Depot I feel like I’m trespassing. I keep expecting someone to walk up and ask me to leave. ‘Ma’am, we do require everyone shopping here to have at least a basic idea of what they’re looking for, and it is clear by your far-away look that you possess no such knowledge. I’m very sorry but I must escort you to the exit.’
> 
> ...


Oooooh, I wonder what this is going to turn into! I'm excited!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> Oooooh, I wonder what this is going to turn into! I'm excited!


Everyone will be amazed lol 😂😂😂 let’s just say that this ingenious invention will also involve a bucket.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Everyone will be amazed lol 😂😂😂 let’s just say that this ingenious invention will also involve a bucket.


Curious and curiouser 🧐. I feel a dinky cooling apparatus is in the works, mayhaps?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> Curious and curiouser 🧐. I feel a dinky cooling apparatus is in the works, mayhaps?


bingo bingo!!!!! ❄❄❄


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Just look at this magnificent weirdo. He tried to parasnail to the surface, but got intercepted by the baffle basket. He hung there for a moment in suspended snail confusion before gently rotating in order to free himself and sail on upwards.

My current snail situation is somewhat odd, very few pond snails are visible in the tank. I just spotted a small one which made me realize it’s been a while. Bladders are doing ok but definitely not prevalent. Mini ramshorns.... once in a while I spot one. Regular ramshorns are doing well as their numbers recently got reinforced via ramshorn infusion. They seem to enjoy the odd nibble on the floating plants, which is cool because the floating plants are going crazy.
















Got shrimp mama in good light to really highlight all the eggs! 








Here she is exploring my eichhornia, which is looking like a Hunger Games winner so far, beating the AR and the Ludwigia Meta by a mile. I hope I can get a whole little eichhornia patch going in a while. 

A weird thing happened with the AR, it was doing really well converting and was about to emerse out the top of the tank so I trimmed it... you’d think I had set it on fire, seriously. Looks really rough. The Jar AR (tm) is still doing great. 
















The fish are all doing well, except the poor exiled chilis. Even Flatty is still going strong. I’m not seeing any particularly new or exciting behaviors but I also haven’t been staring at the tank quite as much in the last week or so. I’ll have to get back to that. 

My Gift Anubias (I think it’s a barteri) has unfurled a pretty new leaf. I’m thinking of getting a coffeefolia at some point. I’ve been looking at some amazing low tech tanks and while they do have a mix of slow and fast growers, the balance tends to be tilted more towards the slower growers than what I currently have... I think at least 4-5 species will have to get the boot at the end of my experiment.

Is fluval Stratum any good as an active substrate? I’ve been toying with the idea of getting just a bit of active substrate into the tank, maybe in wabi kusa style balls... there isn’t much space for it, effectively there’s just room for one or two balls, but it could be fun. But I don’t feel like selling my liver to afford Amazonia and I’m not sure it’s worth doing it with plain dirt. Also Stratum is most easily available here. Wish I could get a mini bag of Amazonia to try playing with... does that stuff go bad eventually? Not in the tank, but, like, if I use a bit now and leave the rest on the shelf, will it keep?

I’m seriously contemplating getting a Sera nitrate kit. Not that it’s crucial for me to know exaaaactly how much nitrate I have, but I am curious about it. It’s somewhere between 20 and 30 I think.... most of the time....


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

I have Stratum in my nano. It seems good. It definitely lowers my GH and KH from tap parameters.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> I have Stratum in my nano. It seems good. It definitely lowers my GH and KH from tap parameters.


Wait it lowers gh as well?? I thought active substrates were only supposed to lower kh... 

Anyway for my purpose the buffering would be negligible because the amount would be negligible, basically just two handfuls. But it does contain nutrients, right? Have you found it to disintegrate quickly?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Went hunting for low tech scape inspiration...


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

'Parasnail' is the single most important term created in this hobby, period. If you don't agree, fight me ! The cherry mama is looking good! Hopefully the piggies keep to themselves and let some of the shrimplets survive 😬


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

Katmanreef said:


> 'Parasnail' is the single most important term created in this hobby, period. If you don't agree, fight me !


Agreed! Laughed when I read that....patent/trademark/whatever that term....it's gold


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Oh I giggled delightedly for days when I heard about parasnailing. But it’s not my creation. There’s a whole Reddit thread lol


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Wait it lowers gh as well?? I thought active substrates were only supposed to lower kh...
> 
> Anyway for my purpose the buffering would be negligible because the amount would be negligible, basically just two handfuls. But it does contain nutrients, right? Have you found it to disintegrate quickly?


Yep, if you check the first couple posts on my nano thread you'll see how much it lowers my GH and KH from my tap water parameters. Eventually though that capability will exhaust.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Wow, that low-tech inspiration. The carpet on the first one, how? And that 2Hr Aquarist shrimp cave is awesome too.

I've noticed that my snail population has hit a snag too. I've been having juvenile ramshorns just dying, but it's like at a rate of one or two a week so it can't be disease. Have you stopped culling their eggs?
I used a 3L bag of Amazonia ver 2 for my tank about 5 months ago and still have some left that I wanted to use for a new tank. I didn't think it would expire, I figured it was just fancy dirt, but you've made me paranoid now and I might need to test it before committing...


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I think some of those are using dirt. If your using dirt you can more easily grow carpets in low-tech.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> View attachment 1042974
> 
> 
> View attachment 1042972


I especially like these two!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Wow, that low-tech inspiration. The carpet on the first one, how? And that 2Hr Aquarist shrimp cave is awesome too.
> 
> I've noticed that my snail population has hit a snag too. I've been having juvenile ramshorns just dying, but it's like at a rate of one or two a week so it can't be disease. Have you stopped culling their eggs?
> I used a 3L bag of Amazonia ver 2 for my tank about 5 months ago and still have some left that I wanted to use for a new tank. I didn't think it would expire, I figured it was just fancy dirt, but you've made me paranoid now and I might need to test it before committing...


Yep a bunch of these are Walstad, so dirt below the sand I guess. Also technically not like I have proof they're all low tech hahah, I mean this is the internet after all. But that's what they were presented as. Also I think in some cases the carpet is pearlweed, which isn't too fussy, just needs decent light. For me carpeting was never a big draw, I actually like seeing my pretty red Flourite. But that mass of green up above, that's goalz. 

Hahah I'm pretty sure it wouldn't expire in just a few months..... I was more thinking because it will probably be years before I'm setting up a new tank proper, and I'd hate to waste a bag. I'll look around the LFSs what they have because Amazon is pretty low on aquasoil options. 

I've never culled snail eggs, only a few batches of Chug's in the very beginning because Chug was going nuts with the hyperproduction. But then I realized that though there are egg sacs every few days a lot of them never even hatch. Anyway since Chug has passed away I really never remove any snail eggs at all, for any species, in either the tank or the Jararium. Jararium does have tons of teeeny tiny baby snails you can see if you point the light at the glass, for instance, and then for some reason they all go there... but in general I don't see many making it to adulthood. I think this is normal in a well maintained, low organics setup.... In the main tank I added like 10-15 adult ramshorns I got in a plant exchange and I haven't seen any die, but not like I'm tracking them all individually. On the baby side yeah, few new ones come up, there is one new beautiful copper shelled one that is in what I'd call a juvenile stage, so no longer so small that I think he might not make it. Once they make it to that size (around 5-6 mm across I guess) I feel they will stick around. 

I mean I don't know, snails are new to me as everything else, but I figure it's normal. I feed the snails and shrimp veggies once in a while, like once every week or two. I've never seen the fish bother them.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I especially like these two!


Yeah that top one is my absolute favorite, it's Serpa design so I do trust him that it is really low tech. For substrate weirdly he mixed Fluval Stratum and Flourite I think. There's a whole video on that tank and it is so stunning. But there is SO MUCH hardscape in there. I guess to get that type of coverage/ lushness you can't really start with two small chunks of driftwood.... he built a whole structure of wood and stone and then strategically covered it with plants. 

I'm very slowly gathering ideas for my future tank. I'd like to think I'll have such a great grasp on all this by then it will just come together flawlessly and I'll be so happy with it. In practice I'll probably end up with some sort of random algae bloom or something and have to rip everything up hahah.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah that top one is my absolute favorite, it's Serpa design so I do trust him that it is really low tech. For substrate weirdly he mixed Fluval Stratum and Flourite I think. There's a whole video on that tank and it is so stunning. But there is SO MUCH hardscape in there. I guess to get that type of coverage/ lushness you can't really start with two small chunks of driftwood.... he built a whole structure of wood and stone and then strategically covered it with plants.
> 
> I'm very slowly gathering ideas for my future tank. I'd like to think I'll have such a great grasp on all this by then it will just come together flawlessly and I'll be so happy with it. In practice I'll probably end up with some sort of random algae bloom or something and have to rip everything up hahah.


I love watching Serpa Design videos! While I doubt it will go perfect I have no doubts your next tank will be awesome given all of the knowledge and experience you've acquired. My new rule has become to go way heavier on hardscape than you think because it always looks like less in the end.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I love watching Serpa Design videos! While I doubt it will go perfect I have no doubts your next tank will be awesome given all of the knowledge and experience you've acquired. My new rule has become to go way heavier on hardscape than you think because it always looks like less in the end.


Yeah I really love his style, he makes things more natural looking and less 'cosmeticky' than some of the others.... Also it feels like he really lets the scapes live for a while and develop and isn't tearing everything down every week. 

I kinda knew I wasn't getting enough scape for the tank but I was already shelling out so much cash on all the initial gear so it really hurt to imagine giving 100$+ on rocks and branches.... For the next one I'm going to search in advance, maybe put together a collection over a while. It takes more than you think for sure. 

Also all these guys who do scapes on YouTube... They have got to have boxes upon boxes of rocks and branches of all descriptions. That makes it way easier to put together a scape. It's much harder to pick out pieces in a store or even worse, order them blindly online and then try to put those exact pieces into some amazing looking scape.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

LidijaPN said:


> Also all these guys who do scapes on YouTube... They have got to have boxes upon boxes of rocks and branches of all descriptions. That makes it way easier to put together a scape. It's much harder to pick out pieces in a store or even worse, order them blindly online and then try to put those exact pieces into some amazing looking scape.


The way you normally do it is to pick out some interesting branches that you like, and make a scape around those branches. If you go into it deciding "this is exactly the way I want the tank to look", you're bound to be disappointed. the WYSIWYG section on most aquascaping supply sites is great for this.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> The way you normally do it is to pick out some interesting branches that you like, and make a scape around those branches. If you go into it deciding "this is exactly the way I want the tank to look", you're bound to be disappointed. the WYSIWYG section on most aquascaping supply sites is great for this.


oh yeah there's no hope of making an 'exact' thing of something you imagined.... I guess experience helps too, I find that it's very hard for me to judge the sizes and shapes of things in the store/ online in comparison to how they would finally end up looking in the tank.... But I guess I'll muddle through it somehow once the time comes hahah. Helps that what I want is less 'architectural perfection' and more 'jungle mess', so.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

Ohh @LidijaPN didn't you say you wanted to keep some wild bettas? I'm biased towards paludarium style tanks, but a tank like these would be cool, and you can grow out your extra emersed plants on it:
















The first picture, the water level is probably too high to prevent the bettas from jumping out, but the 2nd one would be good. Blackwater tanks are nice if you can convince your husband that it's not just dirty brown water, LOL 😅


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> Ohh @LidijaPN didn't you say you wanted to keep some wild bettas? I'm biased towards paludarium style tanks, but a tank like these would be cool, and you can grow out your extra emersed plants on it:
> View attachment 1043029
> 
> View attachment 1043028
> ...


Yap yap, both bettas and alternatively chilis would adore a setup like that.... and growing plants emersed could be extra super cool!!! 

God there are so many awesome setups, it's impossible to settle on just one thing.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Yap yap, both bettas and alternatively chilis would adore a setup like that.... and growing plants emersed could be extra super cool!!!
> 
> God there are so many awesome setups, it's impossible to settle on just one thing.


Hence MTS....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I always worry about stopping fish from jumping out by way of a tall glass wall.... imagine the poor thing trying to jump out and smashing its face straight into the glass, ouch!! 😑


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> I always worry about stopping fish from jumping out by way of a tall glass wall.... imagine the poor thing trying to jump out and smashing its face straight into the glass, ouch!! 😑


Eh, I mean new fish added to tanks do it all the time against glass and hardscape underwater. It's just harder to tell because they tend to do it hidden away. They eventually get 'smarter' and know exactly where the hardscape is and that they can't just swim through the invisible wall, lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Workin’ on my super dinky cooling system, la la laaa.... 😙


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So in case you’ve been missing Daisy, here she is, the beautiful girl!! Still no boyfriend or girlfriend in sight. Also my buce, sp. Somewhat Blue.
















Daisy and Flatty practicing synchronized swimming. He’s really into her because she’s different from the other girls I guess.








Monthly meeting of the Zucchini Quality Assessment Committee. Everyone hard at work as you see. Most of these guys are from the adopted batch and you can see their shells have that whitish streaking... I’m curious how they will grow out, especially the brown ones.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> View attachment 1043043
> 
> View attachment 1043044
> 
> Workin’ on my super dinky cooling system, la la laaa.... 😙


🧐 🧐 🧐 🤔🤔 Watching with interest.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

@Matt at Poth-O-Carry here it is and it fits like a glove!! ⭐ We done good!!

Was a bit of a challenge cutting out the lid piece but all worked out perfectly. Now waiting on the baffle so I can dump the Matrix from the flow dampening basket in there.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Exceptionally Exciting Developments!! 🤩

EED 1 - my beautiful new baffle arrived!! It was so easy to attach and works 100% perfectly, if you want a good baffle hit up Galaxy Glow Studio on Etsy, nicest guy ever and he’ll sort you out.

The flow is now directed down the long side of the tank, which means that for the first time in forever the tank has water movement. Plants are swaying, snails now parasnail sideways, fish spent a few minutes playing in the new current and now seem entirely unconcerned. So, win!

I had to rearrange my floaters and the val doesn’t know which way to float now but on the whole I feel this is a massive improvement. Wonky baffle basket is gone!

I’m observing with interest if any plants are going to seem visibly happier just because of the changed flow.

EED 2 - now that the baffle basket is no longer needed, my plant pot is finally complete! I filled it with Matrix from the baffle basket so I no longer need to worry about shrimp squeezing through the slits and climbing out.

The plant pot is sort of in the way of the new flow but doesn’t seem to be stopping it, plants behind it are fluttering gently.

EED 3 - the Murder Bucket is actually only a Mostly Murder Bucket! A couple of the ludwigia stems have shaken off the diatoms (diatoms went away without any action apparently, algae does not like me) and are finally FINALLY putting out beautiful proper leaves. In a stagnant dirt bucket.

And Most Excitingly - THERE IS A LIVING POGO IN THERE!!! It is very VERY small. It was covered in diatom crud and I wouldn’t have even seen it if it hadn’t randomly floated up during water top up. Anyway I replanted it gently and am observing it with cautious optimism. You can do it little pogo.

EED 4 - my eichhornias are still going strong! Both the initial stem and the replanted top. I want to have an eichhornia patch eventually so this is very exciting. Out of that whole ‘difficult’ batch of plants I got gifted, most have stunted to some point, except the eichhornia which is still looking pretty perfect. Fingers crossed.

EED 5 - my nefarious Yee-Haw Engineering Cooling System is ready for testing, will do that tomorrow probably.

EED 6 - a new experiment is on the way! As those of you who stumbled into my ‘understanding active substrates’ thread already know, an idea was hatched to test the difference an active substrate would make in the Dinky 29g. 

The concept is: we take small jars, fill them up with active substrate, and plant them with some of the plants that are currently stunting. 

Ideas for active substrate are either sourcing a few cups of Amazonia/ Landen/ Tropica/ Stratum and using them as is (I’ve put up posts here in the WTB but also in my local Fb group), or mixing Stratum (as weakest of the lot, but also most likely to be obtained, I already have one kind Stratum offer) with my pogo nursery dirt, which I will attempt to.... mineralize?? I don’t know, it’s a thing, there’s an instructions article and stuff. Then top off with sand which I’m somewhat out of, but I will consider my options.

Ideas for plant subjects (please cast your vote below) - everyone who is currently stunting:


rotala indica
AR and AR mini (they have different issues but both struggling)
pogo erectus
pogo stellatus purple octopus
ludwigia repens
ludwigia meta (if it can even hold on, it’s definitely in the worst shape of the lot)

Whew so that was a mouthful!


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

For topping the jars with sand, it's only to keep the soil from floating everywhere if you replant a lot. You can use anything, like gravel or small pebbles/rocks. You can also top it with regular Stratum and pull the whole jar out to replant to keep the mess outside the tank.

I personally would try whatever stem plant is growing the fastest for you already, so you can see results faster. Weedy, fast growing plants are usually the ones that'll require the most balance so it'll be easy to tell if the soil makes things better.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> For topping the jars with sand, it's only to keep the soil from floating everywhere if you replant a lot. You can use anything, like gravel or small pebbles/rocks. You can also top it with regular Stratum and pull the whole jar out to replant to keep the mess outside the tank.
> 
> I personally would try whatever stem plant is growing the fastest for you already, so you can see results faster. Weedy, fast growing plants are usually the ones that'll require the most balance so it'll be easy to tell if the soil makes things better.


Small pebbles I can find. I’m not really planning to be replanting in the jars, and my main purpose for them would be to see whether the things that are struggling wouldn’t be struggling any more... but I can try a few of the good growers too, just to confirm. 

My idea would be take a stem or two of the struggling plants, leave another stem out, see if one starts to do better compared to the other. Same tank same everything so the only possible difference (without going into the weeds of positioning etc) would be the soil. 

I won’t run it immediately because I first want to confirm whether the new flow is making a difference for anyone (not greatly expecting it to, but we never know). Also I need to gather stuff and process the soil. It has been baked but definitely still has an earthy smell.

This is all quite interesting really. You’d think having a tank is more or less an exciting setup period and then mostly a straight line of maintenance.... not mine! Never a dull moment hahah.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I’m already sort of intrigued by the ludwigia sp super red doing so nicely in the Murder Bucket. Well, beginning to. Murder bucket has no flow, it hasn’t had a water change in weeks, in fact it doesn’t really get water changes as such. Had a massive diatom breakout. And yet these leaves are looking amazing compared to both the tank (utterly hopeless with this plant) and the jar (much better but still nothing compared to Murder Bucket). I’ve long since abandoned the CO2. Of course the dirt is there, as well as the fact that the Murder Bucket is very sparsely planted, as most of its inhabitants had melted into oblivion.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Small pebbles I can find. I’m not really planning to be replanting in the jars, and my main purpose for them would be to see whether the things that are struggling wouldn’t be struggling any more... but I can try a few of the good growers too, just to confirm.
> 
> My idea would be take a stem or two of the struggling plants, leave another stem out, see if one starts to do better compared to the other. Same tank same everything so the only possible difference (without going into the weeds of positioning etc) would be the soil.
> 
> ...


If you aren't replanting, you can just top the mineralized soil/stratum mix with some leftover stratum. I think your idea is a solid one too, and will give you an answer of whether or not the soil made a difference. 

I think your murder bucket is basically a Walstad Bucket, lol. No flow, organic soil for Co2 production and lower light. I think the initial release of organics/ammonia probably melted the tissue culture plants when you first started it.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> If you aren't replanting, you can just top the mineralized soil/stratum mix with some leftover stratum. I think your idea is a solid one too, and will give you an answer of whether or not the soil made a difference.
> 
> I think your murder bucket is basically a Walstad Bucket, lol. No flow, organic soil for Co2 production and lower light. I think the initial release of organics/ammonia probably melted the tissue culture plants when you first started it.


I thought that too but I kept measuring the ammonia and it was like 0.25. I’m sure it was the wild burst of CO2 that melted the pogos. Because don’t forget they were in the exact same soil before that, in the nursery tub. Zero melting.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> I thought that too but I kept measuring the ammonia and it was like 0.25. I’m sure it was the wild burst of CO2 that melted the pogos. Because don’t forget they were in the exact same soil before that, in the nursery tub. Zero melting.


Hmmm, the nursery tub was flooded as well? I know tissue culture plants are notorious for being sensitive to ammonia in the water column, not so much in the soil itself. If the nursery tub was flooded too, then I have no clue, lol . I would try looking for that particular journal entry you made but I'm lazy to scroll back 😇


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> Hmmm, the nursery tub was flooded as well? I know tissue culture plants are notorious for being sensitive to ammonia in the water column, not so much in the soil itself. If the nursery tub was flooded too, then I have no clue, lol . I would try looking for that particular journal entry you made but I'm lazy to scroll back 😇


Yeah here they are, all happily growing. They were about to emerse when I moved them. It’s the murderous CO2 I tellz ya.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah here they are, all happily growing. They were about to emerse when I moved them. It’s the murderous CO2 I tellz ya.
> 
> View attachment 1043151
> 
> View attachment 1043152


Yeah it's that evil Co2 that did them in! You probably should stay away from Co2, don't believe the high tech hooligans!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> Yeah it's that evil Co2 that did them in! You probably should stay away from Co2, don't believe the high tech hooligans!


Exactly, you get me!! Big CO2 I tellz ya! 🤪 They’re everywhere!! 😱 They stop at nothing!


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Oooh, glad to hear there were survivors of the Murder Bucket! Hope you thrive little pogo.
The Poth carry looks pretty interesting. And that is a very large Pothos 😳
Interested to see how that cooling system works...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Oooh, glad to hear there were survivors of the Murder Bucket! Hope you thrive little pogo.
> The Poth carry looks pretty interesting. And that is a very large Pothos 😳
> Interested to see how that cooling system works...


I’ll keep you posted on pogo progress!!! He seems incredibly fragile but also he made it this far, so.... he’s obviously got that survivor spirit. No roots to speak of so I’m still not confident. But it’s a sliver of hope.

Hahah the ‘Very Large Pothos’ is a couple of pothos vines, a peace lily, and a young monstera all shoved together.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I HAVE FISSSSIDENSSSSS!!! 🤩

So you probably didn’t know fissidens was a long-time dream of mine because, umm, I didn’t either. But I was randomly poking around a new lfs today (tiny place run by a super nice Chinese guy, shop is a mess but has some real finds, way more interesting than the other lfs around) and he had a bunch of beautiful mini fissidens growing in his tank (ridiculously stunning tank. Runs CO2 24/7 apparently) and I was like ooh do you sell it and he’s like well not the mini but I have this mass of normal size fissidens a client asked me to sell off for him, you want a bunch for 3$? And I was like BOY DO I!!!

Anyway he also has the most adorable tiny red crypts which I’m picking up as soon as they’re back in stock (saw them in the display tank). I think it’s cryptocoryne albida red mini, would make a beautiful jar carpet plant. 

I’m not really worried about MTS but I might bein real danger of succumbing to MJS, Multiple Jar Syndrome.

Good day!!! 🤩


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I hate how quiet the forum is on the weekends. How dare you have lives and stuff.

So a very interesting development today in the Murder Bucket department.

I had never done a lot of testing on the Murder Bucket, because it’s, well, a bucket. The water in it is straight tapwater. I never intended to cycle it or anything so it seemed largely pointless to faff about with it. The only thing I ever measured was ammonia- always around 0.25 - and pH, because I was trying to track the homemade CO2, and that was crazy low while the CO2 was running, like below 6 at times. (I can’t measure lower. My tap is at 8).

So since the Bucket is still ongoing I thought it wasn’t a bad idea to get a baseline on it. First up was ammonia, and that was around 4ppm, which wasn’t weird because the pogo killing fields must have released a ton of organics into the water. There was no nitrite.

Next I checked pH, thinking maybe I can measure the CO2 produced by the soil, if any. PH was 8.2, which is higher than my tap. This obviously raised my eyebrow because I had expected it to be either the same or lower, if there was any CO2 to speak of being made by the soil. 

So I measured gH and kH and found them to be astoundingly high - gH at 15.5 compared to tap water’s 7 and kH at 11, compared to tap water’s 4.5.

Can soil raise gH and kH so much? I’ve never heard that discussed in relation to dirted tanks.... should I do water changes on the Bucket? Or just let it roll? Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice would say.


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

That is really curious… Unfortunately I don’t have an answer but wanted to respond so everyone knows I don’t have a life. 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> That is really curious… Unfortunately I don’t have an answer but wanted to respond so everyone knows I don’t have a life. 😂


My kinda guy!!! 🤩 This is why we’re forum buds 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Anyway I have decided to not do water changes. First the ludwigia looks better than ever. Second, whatever is happening must have also been happening in the nursery tub, maybe even more so because it was the same soil but smaller amount of water. And everyone was growing like gangbusters.

I left a water sample to ‘degas’ hahah so I’ll check what the pH is on that on Monday I guess.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So possibly the Bucket mineral creep was just due to tap water top-ups, which is pretty anticlimactic. I’ll try to gently change out a bit of the water without making any of the tiny plantlets float up. There are around 3-4 tiny pogo slivers in there now trying to come back, let’s see if they can. 

I had a DIY moment today and attached a shelf brace to the wall to carry the fan that will eventually help cool the tank during the summer. It’s not amazingly aligned because of where the wall stud is positioned in relation to the tank but I can’t move either of those, so yeah. I never feel comfortable screwing things just into the drywall, seems so insufficient. 

I also thought I should show you guys the natural habitats of my tanks...









The massive tupperware behind the tank stand is where Midgie the hamster lives.








Jar is on the Gaming Table








Lineup wouldn’t be complete without the Murder Bucket!


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

Everyone needs a gaming area! Just wanted to say that, lol


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> Everyone needs a gaming area! Just wanted to say that, lol


We have three


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

What room is the murder bucket in?


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> We have three


But are they high-tech and Co2 injected?  

I have to step up my game and make more gaming areas 😤


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> But are they high-tech and Co2 injected?
> 
> I have to step up my game and make more gaming areas 😤


Well there’s tree of us and we all game and sometimes we co-op so we need it all!



Virtus said:


> What room is the murder bucket in?


My bedroom!


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> So possibly the Bucket mineral creep was just due to tap water top-ups, which is pretty anticlimactic. I’ll try to gently change out a bit of the water without making any of the tiny plantlets float up. There are around 3-4 tiny pogo slivers in there now trying to come back, let’s see if they can.
> 
> I had a DIY moment today and attached a shelf brace to the wall to carry the fan that will eventually help cool the tank during the summer. It’s not amazingly aligned because of where the wall stud is positioned in relation to the tank but I can’t move either of those, so yeah. I never feel comfortable screwing things just into the drywall, seems so insufficient.
> 
> Jar is on the Gaming Table


Wow, that TDS creep is crazy! I wonder if that's why my tank has high TDS compared to my tap water too, even though I've been trying to top with Brita filtered water these days... Do you top your main tank with distilled water?

Your fan doesn't look that heavy, probably don't need it on a stud? Orrrr, you could get one of those heavy duty 3M Command Strip hooks. The big ones are rated over 1kg.

Yay gaming table tank! If your jar has animals, maybe try placing some foam underneath it like an old mouse pad, cut up old yoga mat, drawer liners, etc. It'll help dampen vibrations from your typing, furious mouse scrabbling, knee bumping the desk, etc and won't disturb your critters as much.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Wow, that TDS creep is crazy! I wonder if that's why my tank has high TDS compared to my tap water too, even though I've been trying to top with Brita filtered water these days... Do you top your main tank with distilled water?
> 
> Your fan doesn't look that heavy, probably don't need it on a stud? Orrrr, you could get one of those heavy duty 3M Command Strip hooks. The big ones are rated over 1kg.
> 
> Yay gaming table tank! If your jar has animals, maybe try placing some foam underneath it like an old mouse pad, cut up old yoga mat, drawer liners, etc. It'll help dampen vibrations from your typing, furious mouse scrabbling, knee bumping the desk, etc and won't disturb your critters as much.


Yap, I top up with distilled. Now Murder Bucket is getting distilled top ups too, it’s moving up in the world. Took me by surprise that gh and kh creep. 

Makes me wonder about normal people tanks, I’m sure not everyone tops up with distilled. But I guess water changes control it somewhat.

Oh that’s a great idea!! It’s only snails in there but they’d probably like less vibration too!

No it totally didn’t need to go into a stud. But we’re from Eastern Europe originally and the whole paper house thing is a lot for us to take. Like back home if you punch a wall the only thing getting broken is your knuckles. So hubs is very paranoid about hanging anything into drywall alone, especially as it’s a rental so we don’t wanna make gaping holes. Also gives me a reason to pull out my neodymium magnet to find the studs and that makes me feel cool, so 😂


----------



## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Okay so as ever once you project your intentions into the world, the world aims to help you achieve them. A kind local soul gifted me 2 cups of Tropica, I in turn made him a microworm culture and we both made each other’s day.

There is also someone local selling 2 kg bags of what they claim is Amazonia for 15$.... which I’m tempted by though have no real way of confirming it’s Amazonia. But might get some and see anyway, what’s 15$ against the progress of science. Lol.

I’m trying to figure out how I want to run this experiment while minimizing my chances of divorce.

It’s been pointed out (by parties which shall remain unnamed ☄) that just slotting small jars of aquasoil will not have the full effect of an active substrate tank, but I still feel it will be educational and am curious to see if the plants will respond to it. Future steps will be planned in accordance with emergent results.... I am absolutely not in the position to set up another tank, no matter how small, but I may or may not have bought a 1 gallon cookie jar in Walmart for 13,99$ and stashed it in the closet, just in case, god forbid, I should have sudden need of it. (I was actually thinking maybe tiny emersed garden... but who knows. Wonder if I can set it up under the bed so it remains unspotted.)

Someone also offered me their surplus crypt babies (forgot the name but the key is they’re red), so we’ll maybe adopting those as well....


----------



## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Okay so as ever once you project your intentions into the world, the world aims to help you achieve them. A kind local soul gifted me 2 cups of Tropica, I in turn made him a microworm culture and we both made each other’s day.
> 
> There is also someone local selling 2 kg bags of what they claim is Amazonia for 15$.... which I’m tempted by though have no real way of confirming it’s Amazonia. But might get some and see anyway, what’s 15$ against the progress of science. Lol.
> 
> ...


$15 for 2kg of Amazonia?!?? Excuse me lol, that's soooooo cheap lol. I'm excited to see how the soil affects plant growth! How's the flow looking in the tank after the baffle install?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> $15 for 2kg of Amazonia?!?? Excuse me lol, that's soooooo cheap lol. I'm excited to see how the soil affects plant growth! How's the flow looking in the tank after the baffle install?


yes it's a little excessively cheap so either they're getting out of the hobby and just looking to ditch it or it's not 2 kg or it's not real Amazonia. Hard to tell it's just in a ziploc bag.... anyway we'll see I guess, live dangerously and all that. 

I do at any case also have the Tropica so we should have some fun results regardless. And my beautiful dirt which is in the process of mineralizing or whatnot. 

Flow is amazing, making full sweep around the tank, food travels full circle now. Huge difference to before. Nobody really seems to care but it might be too soon.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so here’s today’s life lesson from Dinkyland - How Not To Do Business.

‘Hi how much for your 2 kg of Amazonia?’
‘15$’
‘Ok I’ll take it. Just out of curiosity, how come you’re selling Amazonia at such a good price?’
‘.........’
‘.......sorry, it’s actually 25$.’
‘Dangit I should have kept quiet. Could I get a half of it?’
‘Ok, 15$’
‘......fine I guess. I am dumb.’


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

Asteroid said:


> Isn't the N in seachem, etc inorganic. Urea is organic. Do I need to show tanks that use no3 as their source. Be tough to point out any deficiences and is safe north of 100ppm.


Hm just going to bring this up.

Urea breaks down to NH3 when dissolved in water.
And NH3 is NH3 is NH3 regardless of source.
Theoretically NH3 is more energy efficient - less processing for plants.


That being said
NH3 dosing does come with its own restrictions
And personally I have not seen much differences between NO3 and NH3.

BTW I think fert companies using NH4NO3 is due to the fact that its cheap.....but don't quote me on this.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I’m super annoyed at the guy changing prices on the Amazonia. Such a crappy move. I’m almost tempted to tell him to shove it.

In fact I found 3L packs of Amazonia online for as little as 21$.... which would make his 15$ per liter highway robbery. But of course when I add the tax and shipping it’s up to 45$ so it comes out the same.... and I really don’t need 3L.... it’s still a good deal for me, I get what I need and only spend 15$.

Still annoys me tho.

EDIT- I told him I found 3L online for 21$ (which is true) so I’ll pass on his ‘deal’. I have an irrational anger towards people who try to resell you their crappy old stuff at the same price as you get in the store. People do it here in ads all the time and it makes me literally livid. Enjoy your soil, doucheguy. I don’t really need it anyway. I’m not gonna spend 2hrs in public transport and pay metro tickets just so you can get 100% return on your aquasoil purchase.

Thinking of it now I should have waited and cancelled on him after he had already brought it over to his son’s place where I was supposed to pick it up. Lol.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

Did you factor in the the cost of shipping *you* to him for the exchange? Then definitely not a deal any more...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Did you factor in the the cost of shipping *you* to him for the exchange? Then definitely not a deal any more...


Yeah exactly. Online I get 3L for 44$, tax and shipping included. That’s exactly 15$ per liter and I don’t leave my house. With him I pay the same 15$, spend 2 hrs in transit and pay 7$ for the metro there and back. Nope.

Reminds me of that economic theory experiment. Two people are given 100$. One gets to decide how they split it, the other gets to just accept or refuse. If person 2 refuses neither gets anything.

Economic theory assumes that person A will always suggest to keep 99$, and person B will always accept to get just 1$, because 1>0.

In practice of course, unless person 2 is offered at least around 30-40% of the money, the satisfaction of screwing the other selfish guy out of his gain carries more emotional satisfaction than being 10$ richer..... this is why economic forecasts are almost universally wrong. Economics is an awful way of predicting human behavior.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Amazonia dude didn’t even bother to reply. Screw him.

So today I decided to glue some fissidens to some rocks. I had a small flat chunk of slate that I flat out stole from someone’s yard while out walking today, and I bought two very small chunks of what they call ‘maple leaf rock’ here? I’m not sure what it is and I don’t see people here mentioning it but I find it by far the prettiest out of what my store has. Kinda rusty red with white veins and crystally bits, inert tho.

The amount of fissidens I got looked small but when you start to tease them apart and glue them to things it goes a long way. I’ll probably give some away on my fish group, I’ve got no more rocks to fissidens. I have fissidensed all my available rocks. I’ve stuck them in the Walstad Murder Bucket (WMB) to chill for a bit.

Fissidens is, shall we say, uncooperative. I followed forum advice to try and dab it onto the rock with tiny globs of glue, using a wooden chopstick.

‘Ok fissidens, I’m going to put your end into this tiny glob of glue.’
‘Oki!’
‘Wait you’re stuck to my finger. I said stick to rock.’
‘Oki! I stick!’
‘Stick - to - rock!!’
‘Oki!’
‘....you’re stuck to the chopstick.’
‘Yes!! I stick!’
‘You stuck to the wrong thing tho.’
‘I stick to stick!!!’
‘But you’re not sup...... Ok wait let’s try again. Oh man you’re all dried up already!’
‘I dry I die.’
‘Man. Ok wait I’ll float you in water I guess.’
‘Too late now. I dead. Try other piece.’
‘Ok how about you, can I get you to stick to a rock?’
‘I stick!’
‘......FISSSSIDENSSSSS!!!’

😑


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Amazonia dude didn’t even bother to reply. Screw him.
> 
> So today I decided to glue some fissidens to some rocks. I had a small flat chunk of slate that I flat out stole from someone’s yard while out walking today, and I bought two very small chunks of what they call ‘maple leaf rock’ here? I’m not sure what it is and I don’t see people here mentioning it but I find it by far the prettiest out of what my store has. Kinda rusty red with white veins and crystally bits, inert tho.
> 
> ...


What if that was the person's favorite piece of slate in his yard 

Honestly with moss, I've found it easier to use cotton thread or my preferred method, the Moss Loofa Rock. That method I linked is genius, who ever invented it needs an award.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> What if that was the person's favorite piece of slate in his yard
> 
> Honestly with moss, I've found it easier to use cotton thread or my preferred method, the Moss Loofa Rock. That method I linked is genius, who ever invented it needs an award.


I mean it was surrounded by like three thousand absolutely identical chunks of slate but sure, in that unlikely case I feel terrible. Not so much for taking it as for that poor man who has gotten attached to a random piece of slate. 

Ok the loofah method looks golden. I must try!!! Must steal more rocks. Surprisingly tough to find rocks around the city.

Also my kid and I lifted this from a local park on our way back from his dr’s appointment this morning. Maybe someone knows what it is? Maybe @pseudomugil, our resident geologist?

I need to test if it changes hardness. And scrub it with a toothbrush.


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

Use micro tweezers. It works wonders.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

MoreliaViridis said:


> Use micro tweezers. It works wonders.


I’m sure it would if I had them 😂

Anyway I got it all done but it was a bit harrowing. Can’t wait to try the loofah way haha. Wonder if there’s a way to close the bottom neatly.

This is the vibe of the maple rock:


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## pseudomugil (Aug 12, 2013)

LidijaPN said:


> I mean it was surrounded by like three thousand absolutely identical chunks of slate but sure, in that unlikely case I feel terrible. Not so much for taking it as for that poor man who has gotten attached to a random piece of slate.
> 
> Ok the loofah method looks golden. I must try!!! Must steal more rocks. Surprisingly tough to find rocks around the city.
> 
> ...


That looks a lot like a limestone to me. If I could teleport the little bottle of 5% HCl that I have in my flannel pocket at the moment to your location you'd be able to tell real quick with just a drop or two. If it's not limestone it could be a basalt with calcite or quartz veins.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> I’m sure it would if I had them 😂
> 
> Anyway I got it all done but it was a bit harrowing. Can’t wait to try the loofah way haha. Wonder if there’s a way to close the bottom neatly.
> 
> ...


For the loofah method, you can tie off the bottom with some nylon fishing line or cotton threading. Just weave through a few of the loops and tighten with a knot, easy peezy


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

looks like a rock to me!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Jaguar said:


> looks like a rock to me!


This is why I come to this group, for the unerring expertise 😂


pseudomugil said:


> That looks a lot like a limestone to me. If I could teleport the little bottle of 5% HCl that I have in my flannel pocket at the moment to your location you'd be able to tell real quick with just a drop or two. If it's not limestone it could be a basalt with calcite or quartz veins.


Thanks for that, Rock Doctor! ⭐ Ok those both sound like they would potentially leach hardness into the water? I’ll test it.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Let's see your stealing slate, lifting rocks and you are in possession of one murder bucket. You are one extreme hobbyist and I'm actually getting a little scared. 😲


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## MoreliaViridis (May 19, 2021)

Asteroid said:


> Let's see your stealing slate, lifting rocks and you are in possession of one murder bucket. You are one extreme hobbyist and I'm actually getting a little scared. 😲


"Casual" is for wussies


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Let's see your stealing slate, lifting rocks and you are in possession of one murder bucket. You are one extreme hobbyist and I'm actually getting a little scared. 😲


Not scared enough to stay out of my threads I see 😂😂😂

To my credit..... no, I got nothin’. That’s a pretty fair description.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> Not scared enough to stay out of my threads I see 😂😂😂
> 
> To my credit..... no, I got nothin’. That’s a pretty fair description.


To be fair, when I used to walk my dog around the neighborhood. I would casually 'scope out' possible hardscape and botanicals I can use for my tank. And visiting some friends, I would 'liberate' river stones, pygmy date leaves and guava leaves to 'help clean' their yard lol


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> To be fair, when I used to walk my dog around the neighborhood. I would casually 'scope out' possible hardscape and botanicals I can use for my tank. And visiting some friends, I would 'liberate' river stones, pygmy date leaves and guava leaves to 'help clean' their yard lol


Yap yap, we’re a rough bunch for sure. Nice decent folk like ☄ over here should steer clear of us 😈

Anyway, meanwhile in Experimentland.....

So I heard someone who is not particularly highly regarded here on the forum give a fairly vaguely reasoned explanation of why when she notices her nitrate getting high, she supplements potassium. 

The logic is that if the plants are not using up the nitrate, it’s possibly because they’re being held back by the lack of potassium. Anyway she also tested her potassium and confirmed it was low, but I can find literally ZERO potassium test kits online or otherwise, so I can’t really do that.... I know one lfs that might have a Sera master kit and possibly could measure it for me. 

But in the meantime, I ran the theory by a forum member who is a botanist and he said it sounded sound in theory, plants like potassium nitrate so adding potassium could promote the uptake of nitrate. 

So we’re dosing potassium now! 

Will report with findings if any. 

Still trying to figure out how to cycle the gift Tropica before running the jars experiment. Got some really nice jars for it too.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so we have new riddles to ponder.

First off here are my experiment jars, nice and deep so hopefully I won’t end up with a mess all over my tank.








In terms of ongoing stuff, I have added the baffle on May 26 I think, and started dosing potassium on.... May 29? Today was the second dose.

Up until today I haven’t really spotted any changes in the tank, but look at these:








As opposed to the guppy grass which has taken off for me without issue, pearlweed has kept struggling in this tank. Not dying but definitely not living its best life, as you can see from the lower leaves in the photo.

Now there are absolute masses of low tech tanks with next to no flow out there that are filled with absolute explosive clouds of pearlweed, so it really didn’t sit right with me that it’s struggling because of CO2.....

Anyway check out the new growth  More observation needed to confirm but it gives me some hope.








R indica keeps doing its stunting and unstunting dance so at this point it’s very difficult to make any conclusion about it, but I do see a few stems that are starting to put out decent leaves. Others are still superstunted tho, and it has done this ‘I’m fine now!! Oh wait no I’m not!!’ thing a couple of times before, so we will see.








Limno is unstoppable in this tank anyway, so it’s hard to tell whether the new growth only looks fuller because of its lighter color. But I think the leaves are looking a little juicier than before.

That’s it, everyone else is as they were before. Nobody has markedly deteriorated since last changes were introduced, except for the meta which is hanging on by a thread. I took one of its shoots and stuck it into WMB, it’s doing nothing so far but we will see.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so things keep happening.

I went out today to pick up some baby crypts from a girl on my local fish group, she was like ‘I have these red crypts if you want, they keep making babies I don’t know what to do with them.’ Anyway they turned out to be usteriana red so I was like HECK-HECKITTY YEAH! And now I have six which is somewhat excessive even for me.

I stuck the smallest ones into the jar, which they will definitely have to leave at some point but for now they make fine pickles. Herewith the jar:

































Tiny nymphoides plantlet had floated in the main tank so now it lives in the jar too. Will definitely also have to move eventually, probably to someone else’s tank.

Both the AR and the ludwigia in the Picklescape have started to stunt simultaneously, which they had not at all done before, so I thought maybe they had used up that one root tab I had popped in there at the start. I gave them a new one so we will see.

Anyway so a weird thing is happening with WMB. It’s becoming a bit of a.... well, a scaped bucket, if you will. It got a couple of fissidens covered rocks, and now a couple of new crypts (no way was I fitting six in the main tank!!), and it’s really getting a bit of a vibe. I’ll try to take pics tomorrow.

An amazing ferts discussion was had today in the appropriate subforum, with some confirmation possibly for my potassium theory. I’ve measured nitrate today and it sits just above 10, maybe not quite at 20. We will see where it lands at the end of the week. 

Exciting times to be sure! I have another (no, another-another) experiment cooking and this one will be quite the thing, hahah. Just gotta get organized.


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Ok so things keep happening.
> 
> I went out today to pick up some baby crypts from a girl on my local fish group, she was like ‘I have these red crypts if you want, they keep making babies I don’t know what to do with them.’ Anyway they turned out to be usteriana red so I was like HECK-HECKITTY YEAH! And now I have six which is somewhat excessive even for me.
> 
> ...


I noticed with my nano, my growth was fairly slow going, even with CO2, and my nitrates were always hovering around 5ppm. Once I got them up with EI dosing, that's when growth really took off.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> I noticed with my nano, my growth was fairly slow going, even with CO2, and my nitrates were always hovering around 5ppm. Once I got them up with EI dosing, that's when growth really took off.


For sure, there needs to be some nitrate in the water... but I feel EI dosing is a losing proposition in a non CO2 tank... especially since I really don’t want to be changing out more than 30% of the water weekly.

I really don’t mind slow growth though. I sort of prefer it. But I would like to get rid of all this stunting.... 

At least the WMB doesn’t seem to be getting any more GSA. The photo period tweak seems to have fixed it.

Wonder if I should try splitting the photo period.... anyone done that?


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

So, just for funzies, I am going to drop a word here to ponder about "why is this happy, and not that?" Allelopathy?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> So, just for funzies, I am going to drop a word here to ponder about "why is this happy, and not that?" Allelopathy?


Oooomg what synchronicity, a lfs guy I was chatting to yesterday mentioned the exact same thing!!! Said he saw it in his tanks for sure. It’s a fascinating idea. 

But I’m gonna do a lot of experimentation with other factors before I reach for that one hahah. Also I do have plants that are in multiple locations next to different neighbors or that have moved and not fared better. I doubt that the warfare is so universal....


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> For sure, there needs to be some nitrate in the water... but I feel EI dosing is a losing proposition in a non CO2 tank... especially since I really don’t want to be changing out more than 30% of the water weekly.
> 
> I really don’t mind slow growth though. I sort of prefer it. But I would like to get rid of all this stunting....
> 
> ...


Unfortunately the large water changes are the tradeoff. I like the idea of really figuring out exactly what my plants need, but one of the reasons I got out of reef keeping is because of all the work involved in their maintenance.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> Unfortunately the large water changes are the tradeoff. I like the idea of really figuring out exactly what my plants need, but one of the reasons I got out of reef keeping is because of all the work involved in their maintenance.


Yeah I definitely get that..... I might go that way later when I get tired of it all.... for now this chase to dial in the ferts and the constant tinkering and experimentation is actually hugely satisfying for me. Like I definitely don’t want a tank that runs itself... I wanna be faffin’ with it constantly 😂


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Yeah I definitely get that..... I might go that way later when I get tired of it all.... for now this chase to dial in the ferts and the constant tinkering and experimentation is actually hugely satisfying for me. Like I definitely don’t want a tank that runs itself... I wanna be faffin’ with it constantly 😂


That was me a decade ago when I got into reef tanks lol. Give me plants that I have to trim once every 2-4 weeks and weekly water changes and I'm a happy camper lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> That was me a decade ago when I got into reef tanks lol. Give me plants that I have to trim once every 2-4 weeks and weekly water changes and I'm a happy camper lol.


It's a process lol


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## ak7v (Jan 9, 2022)

ddiomede said:


> Unfortunately the large water changes are the tradeoff. I like the idea of really figuring out exactly what my plants need, but one of the reasons I got out of reef keeping is because of all the work involved in their maintenance.


I kept a reef tank back in high school when I worked at a fish store. It was small, and I had access to free "real ocean" water that the store sold. That, and I got coral frags cheap or free from them. Nowadays, I don't think I could do it. Too expensive and lots of work. At least with the planted freshwater tank, if I lose my zeal for maintenance, I can let it wind down to something slower paced. Couldn't do that with the reef.


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

ak7v said:


> I kept a reef tank back in high school when I worked at a fish store. It was small, and I had access to free "real ocean" water that the store sold. That, and I got coral frags cheap or free from them. Nowadays, I don't think I could do it. Too expensive and lots of work. At least with the planted freshwater tank, if I lose my zeal for maintenance, I can let it wind down to something slower paced. Couldn't do that with the reef.


The last year or so my reef tank was up I just kind of let it go. It was remarkable how quickly it began going downhill. Fortunately I kind of anticipated taking the tank down and start selling off corals long before I let maintenance slip on it. By the time I took the tank down at the end of July last year it looked terrible...full of bubble algae and other algae. I had one clownfish left when I broke the tank down that I gave to my friend. 

My interest was in SPS so that in and of itself created a lot of extra work. I do intend on setting another small reef tank up, but 30 gallons max, and it'll be mostly easy corals with one or two of my favorite fish. That won't be happening for a while though. I just don't have the energy, motivation, time, or money to start on another project lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ak7v said:


> I kept a reef tank back in high school when I worked at a fish store. It was small, and I had access to free "real ocean" water that the store sold. That, and I got coral frags cheap or free from them. Nowadays, I don't think I could do it. Too expensive and lots of work. At least with the planted freshwater tank, if I lose my zeal for maintenance, I can let it wind down to something slower paced. Couldn't do that with the reef.


I know a couple of friends that keep planted tanks and they sort of run it for a while, then kind of get tired of it and let algae take over and everything grow wild, then they start taking care of it again.... it can really be pretty easygoing if you don't mind watching it change with the seasons... usually you will use some plant variety as the pushy ones will take over but it's still possible to keep things ticking with minimum effort.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok so a couple of quick corrections.... first, the crypts I got are not usteriana red, but undulata red.... which, still cool, but less cool, but still cool  I mean they were free.

Second, I'm getting a few stems of Bacopa salzmannii SG, which is so weird, because everyone started talking about it, and I looked around and it wasn't anywhere, and then someone on my group was like 'giving away for free' a bunch of high tech stuff including SG, from their trim, and they had already given it and I was like 'hey would you consider selling a stalk or two?' and he was like oh I'll give you some, I'm curious myself to hear how it will do in low tech. So the universe is majorly assisting my weirdness. 

I also bought some peat and ordered some crushed lava rock, you know, for a thing.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

If that Bacopa grows deep purple in low tech, I'll link to a video of me eating my shoe =)


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> If that Bacopa grows deep purple in low tech, I'll link to a video of me eating my shoe =)


You’ll want to assess all your shoes for tastiness levels, just in case 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So this was an odd day.

I went to get the two stems of salzmannii SG from a dude. Dude grows like all the rarest plants in the city. His tanks are wall to wall purple pink. 

I walk up and he’s on the balcony with another dude, smoking up and talking planted tanks... so that turned into like a three hour conversation. Very odd, very interesting. The salzmannii dude is sorta the quiet type, but from what he does say you get the feeling he was born in a fish tank. Though apparently he’s an electrician by trade. 

Other dude consults and scapes tanks for people and is of the ‘let me explain the world to you’ types. I made about five efforts to leave but he just wasn’t done talking 😂 To his defense, it doesn’t take much to tip me into a new question.

Anyway after an extremely thorough analysis of my situation _their_ conclusion was my light is too weak 😅

There’s something very cool about a hobby where literally everyone has got your problem figured out and is straight up offering you the answer, except all the answers are different. 

One interesting thing they brought up was that the majority of the plants we’re seeing in the hobby can be divided into marsh plants, that are used to somewhat acidic conditions, still water and little available nutrition, and river plants that are used to more movement, alkalinity and more nutrients. Not that this information helps me in any way, but it’s interesting. 

I don’t like the idea of the light being my problem for the same reason I don’t like CO2 being my problem. Because the solution is 300$.

The more I spin this around with different people the more I get the feeling that I don’t have ‘a problem’. I probably have several, and they probably inter-impact each other up to a point too.... because literally nothing explains all the stuff I’m seeing in the tank. 

It also doesn’t help that people sound so confident when they present their solution, or rather, ‘The Solution’, even though none of them entirely account for all the things happening in the tank. But I find it interesting that people always ALWAYS offer One Solution. Be it ‘you need CO2’, ‘you need better light’, ‘you need to dim your lights’, ‘you need more ferts’, or ‘you need less ferts’... no one yet (sorry if you have and I just haven’t noted it!!) has offered a ‘some of your issues might be down to one thing and some might be down to another’ sort of view... 

Anyway I’ll carry on with my experiments moving from cheaper to more expensive.... interesting that these two guys with like 40 years of experience between them swear up and down that stronger light in a low tech tank will not cause algae if properly timed and sounded utterly certain that light was my problem.... and both completely dismissed out of hand the prevailing theory among the brain trust here, which is that the issue is CO2.....

Now not even getting into which of these turns out to be right or whatever, it just fascinates me that people with evident mountains of knowledge and experience can have such diametrically differing views on a problem and both sound so utterly convinced their take on it is right.... just shows how crazy complex this hobby of ours really is.

Anyway I have two stems of salzmannii SG now, let’s see how I kill them.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> So this was an odd day.
> 
> I went to get the two stems of salzmannii SG from a dude. Dude grows like all the rarest plants in the city. His tanks are wall to wall purple pink.
> 
> ...


Ahh the beauty of planted tanks and the conclusions that people come to. With experience adding to our base knowledge of our aquatic creations, we tend to forget what it's like to start a tank for the very first time.

Buying our first tank and equipment, learning the nitrogen cycle, our very first inhabitants that spontaneously appear or that we deliberately place in our enclosure, the first plant that does well, the first plant that does poorly and the very first living organism that perishes in our care. We all add pages in our never ending book of wisdom about how tanks should be run.

Everyone has their own 'fix' and 'solutions' to problems and project that outwards to try to help others. But at the end of the day, we are the masters of our own cubed creations.

I think you're in a great position where you can learn from the different perspectives of others and the conclusions from your own experiments. Then you can slowly start adding those wisdoms, as pages into your own 'book'; it's such an exciting and integral part of enabling your own aquatic paradise! I'd say dip your feet into uncharted territories and experiment with reckless abandon, as long as you post your results here of course .

One day, you'll evolve from a Lvl. 1 Squirtle to a Lvl. 100 Max IV Tom Barr and I'll battle you in the arena!

I apologize for the long rant, Katman out!


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

Katmanreef said:


> Everyone has their own 'fix' and 'solutions' to problems and project that outwards to try to help others. But at the end of the day, we are the masters of our own cubed creations.


This applies in soooo many areas of life. Perhaps the best example is that everyone else is the one best qualified to raise your child(ren). However, they are not always receptive to reciprocal advice....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> Ahh the beauty of planted tanks and the conclusions that people come to. With experience adding to our base knowledge of our aquatic creations, we tend to forget what it's like to start a tank for the very first time.
> 
> Buying our first tank and equipment, learning the nitrogen cycle, our very first inhabitants that spontaneously appear or that we deliberately place in our enclosure, the first plant that does well, the first plant that does poorly and the very first living organism that perishes in our care. We all add pages in our never ending book of wisdom about how tanks should be run.
> 
> ...


Yap you guys are so right ♥ It sure feels overwhelming sometimes tho.


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

The one thing I hate about most hobbies is "dogma". "This is the only way to do it". 

It's probably the number one thing that drives people out of hobbies. I was very active in the reef community locally, and then after a couple years I really became turned off by it. You'd have cliques of people who all believed in the same methods, and they'd turn into the snobs of the hobby. On the flip side, you'd have the budget reefers who looked down on the snobs. Then you had me who just liked having a colorful aquarium and loathing both types of people lol. The snobs were the worst though. If you weren't spending big bucks on high dollar, named corals, you were looked down on. They'd show up to meet ups at LFS and walk through the stores proclaiming that everything in the store was "meh" and beginner corals. Meanwhile the newer reefers would wonder why the corals they were just looking at and fell in love with were looked down on by some of the other reefers. The funniest was watching the snobs pay big bucks for tiny frags of an ugly coral, and try to convince themselves that this ugly named coral was actually gorgeous  

Literally every hobby is like that. While the planted community here doesn't seem to be like that, if you go into planted tank FB groups, there certainly are snobs there. A LOT of them lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> The one thing I hate about most hobbies is "dogma". "This is the only way to do it".
> 
> It's probably the number one thing that drives people out of hobbies. I was very active in the reef community locally, and then after a couple years I really became turned off by it. You'd have cliques of people who all believed in the same methods, and they'd turn into the snobs of the hobby. On the flip side, you'd have the budget reefers who looked down on the snobs. Then you had me who just liked having a colorful aquarium and loathing both types of people lol. The snobs were the worst though. If you weren't spending big bucks on high dollar, named corals, you were looked down on. They'd show up to meet ups at LFS and walk through the stores proclaiming that everything in the store was "meh" and beginner corals. Meanwhile the newer reefers would wonder why the corals they were just looking at and fell in love with were looked down on by some of the other reefers. The funniest was watching the snobs pay big bucks for tiny frags of an ugly coral, and try to convince themselves that this ugly named coral was actually gorgeous
> 
> Literally every hobby is like that. While the planted community here doesn't seem to be like that, if you go into planted tank FB groups, there certainly are snobs there. A LOT of them lol.


I find it weird how many very interesting discussions I have on this forum in private messages, where people are doing some weird offbeat things and are like 'yeah I've thought of starting a journal but I just don't want to deal with all the people who'd come to tell me I'm doing it wrong'. Makes ya think. 

I'm with you, I don't want any club badge, I wanna poke into everything and see what I can piece together. I'm extremely amused at the idea of your coral snobs telling each other their overpriced ugly rare coral 'is really quite beautiful and exquisite, really' just because they dropped top dollar on it.... people are weird sometimes hahah. But at least we can laugh at them  

Yeah FB groups are pretty bad, for everything. I think people are just like that, hahah. Or rather, people who ARE like that tend to stand out? This community is amazing though and it fascinates me how many different people come here to exchange opinions from different angles. It's really quite a treasure trove.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So it is my firm belief that NOT all my plant issues come from the same source. I'm trying to figure out the best way to test out that theory. To this end I thought I'd put together a list of all my plants and everything I know about what they need/ like/ what might be bothering them.... and maybe we can come to some conclusions together.

Overall factors we need to keep in mind: (we being me, lol)


My tank is poorly lit. Even though some people have mentioned the possibility of TOO MUCH light being the issue, the general consensus seems to be that the Fluval kit light is very poor, has poor penetration and not the ideal color range. The tank, on the other hand, is deep for its size and it is possible that shorter plants are just not getting enough light to grow.
My substrate is inert/ close to inert. Yes Flourite has some minerals etc but possibly whatever is there has gotten depleted in these six months, and it is not a bioactive substrate. Even though plants in general can take nutrients either from the substrate or from the wc, it is quite possible that because there are a lot of species competing for resources in the tank, certain plants are being outcompeted for certain ingredients. This would be exacerbated by the fact that there are floaters and emersed plants who can slurp faster than the rest as they have access to air and are thus not limited by CO2
There are a lot of plants competing for resources in the tank! These resources could be ferts, CO2, or light. We could also have cases of allelopathy and plants literally not liking each other.
There is no CO2 in the tank, thus all growth will be limited by this.

My plants:


hygrophila difformis (water wisteria) - might be hungry. Was doing incredibly well for a very long time, implying that maybe it wasn't lack of CO2 nor light that bothered it. It might have exhausted the minerals from the substrate.
hygrophila pinnatifida - was a very small frail single stem, and it didn't make it. I might try it again in an experimental setting, or once I have figured out more about the state of the tank.
vallisneria green - doing great.
vallisneria red - not doing great. I don't have guesses beyond that all plants that can make any color other than green tend to be more demanding. Maybe it needs CO2
dwarf sag - doing great.
lobelia cardinalis - at first glance, doing great. No deficiencies, growing slowly but steadily, making babies. However it is growing so slowly I have not had to trim it in 5 months. This is fine, except it's a plant that can grow in shade. So this could speak towards the light being the issue. If it had sufficient light it should show some color on top - as it is it's perfectly green, which means it believes it is in the shade.
ludwigia super red - refused to take off at all in the main tank. Did better in the jar. Doing even better in the bucket. None of these are still the way it should actually look. I have a fourth experiment lined up to see if I can get it to level up further. Could be pointing towards bad light or no CO2
ludwigia repens - people definitely grow it in low tech so it's more likely to be missing light.
ludwigia meta - delicate and missing everything, especially CO2, it was never gonna work.
limnophila sessiliflora - doing great.
myriophyllum aquaticum (parrot’s feather) - doing great
cabomba purple - doing great, doesn't have enough light to be purple but it isn't entirely green either.
althernathera reineckii - was seeming to do great until I had to trim it, now is struggling. Not sure what it minds, but I have seen tanks growing it well in low tech. Might be missing light or feeding from the roots.
althernathera reineckii green - growing slowly but the submerged part is looking really good. I'm hopeful.
althernathera reineckii mini - chlorosis and stunting. It's short and pretty far from the light, that's probably its main issue.
eichhornia diversifolia - doing great, much to my surprise.
rotala indica - apparently weirdly unstable in general. It flips between stunting and unstunting, which makes me rule out light and CO2 because those are both constant. It did very well when I popped a root tab under it so it might be worth trying it in an active substrate and seeing if that helps it.
nymphoides hydrophila ‘Taiwan’ - doing great. It's a weed.
hornwort (can’t remember Latin name and don’t feel like googling) - doing great, visibly better when it's up close to the light. It would like a better light.
pearlweed - was doing very very poorly but is now starting to put out some nicer leaves finally. Not entirely sure what to attribute that to.
guppy grass - doing great
red tiger lotus (not a stem but don’t feel like doing a single plant ‘bulbs’ category) - doing great but growing slow. It might want a root tab.
Amazon sword - doing great. A little too great. I should have bought a prettier one maybe, the one I have is perfectly healthy and growing well but a little boring. Not his fault tho.
crypt petchii - doing great
crypt wendtii - doing great, making tons of new ones too
crypt undulata red - too new to know
crypt crispatula tonkinensis - not doing much, unlikely to be missing CO2 or light. Might want a root tab.
pogo erectus - stunted and not growing at all, not dying tho. One guess is it needs light, other guess is it wants harder water, apparently pogos like more KH (I also heard from the Super Advanced Plant Guy that Crypt Flamingo struggles for lots of people because of too low GH and KH, it seems to like harder water. Don't know who needs to hear this)
pogo stellatus - same as erectus. Apparently pogostemons like harder water. And more light. They definitely CAN grow in non-CO2 tanks.

Mosses and liverworts:


pellia - doing great, growing slowly
riccia fluitans - doing ok, growing weirdly but consistently
Christmas moss - doing better and better, spreading around
Java moss - mostly died off
Peacock moss - too new to tell

Epiphytes:


anubias nana petite - doing great, putting out new leaves
anubias barteri - doing great, one leaf getting a bit of spot algae, gotta keep an eye on it
buce brownie sp. (not brown) - doing great, putting out new leaves
buce ‘extreme metallic blue’ (almost blue) - getting bluer and bluer, doing great, putting out new leaves
buce ‘silky blue’ (not blue) - still not blue but otherwise doing great
Java fern - have some holes etc but in general they're doing well. I stuck one in total shade to see if it does better or worse than the others.
java fern windelov (maybe? It’s still a baby) - it's hidden beneath a bunch of other stuff, from what I see it's doing fine

Floating plants:


Amazon frogbit - doing well, some yellowing and holes on the older leaves, one guess is lack of some fert, other guess is they're too close to the light and suffer from condensation/ light burn
salvinia minima - doing, frankly, _annoyingly_ well.
So depending on who wants what we are going to try, in order of cheapness and easiness:


additional potassium dosing
root tabs for targeted feeding
better lights maybe if like I'm a good girl and use my birthday as an excuse to spend more money on the tank
experiments with active substrate and one weird substrate mix I'm trying to iron out the details of now
culling those plants which aren't helped by any of this, because the conclusion will be that those are the ones who are suffering from lack of CO2


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> I find it weird how many very interesting discussions I have on this forum in private messages, where people are doing some weird offbeat things and are like 'yeah I've thought of starting a journal but I just don't want to deal with all the people who'd come to tell me I'm doing it wrong'. Makes ya think.
> 
> I'm with you, I don't want any club badge, I wanna poke into everything and see what I can piece together. I'm extremely amused at the idea of your coral snobs telling each other their overpriced ugly rare coral 'is really quite beautiful and exquisite, really' just because they dropped top dollar on it.... people are weird sometimes hahah. But at least we can laugh at them
> 
> Yeah FB groups are pretty bad, for everything. I think people are just like that, hahah. Or rather, people who ARE like that tend to stand out? This community is amazing though and it fascinates me how many different people come here to exchange opinions from different angles. It's really quite a treasure trove.


There are times in the FB groups where I swear some of the questions are just trolls because I refuse to believe that people can be that dumb. One example was a guy posted that his fish were dying, and the pic was a tank half full with water and packed with fish. When people started asking questions he's like "oh, just filled the tank with water last night and added the fish at the same time". I mean even employees at Petsmart know that you at the very least need to cycle the tank lol. This is why I think some of them are just either excellently planned troll posts, or poorly planned troll posts. I still have faith in people that I just refuse to believe that there are so many that seem to qualify to be in a custodial care setting lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> There are times in the FB groups where I swear some of the questions are just trolls because I refuse to believe that people can be that dumb. One example was a guy posted that his fish were dying, and the pic was a tank half full with water and packed with fish. When people started asking questions he's like "oh, just filled the tank with water last night and added the fish at the same time". I mean even employees at Petsmart know that you at the very least need to cycle the tank lol. This is why I think some of them are just either excellently planned troll posts, or poorly planned troll posts. I still have faith in people that I just refuse to believe that there are so many that seem to qualify to be in a custodial care setting lol.


Some people troll for sure. But some people just have issues. Last time at LFS this old lady comes in buying a betta. She seems to like know all the staff. After she leaves they’re like ‘it’s really sad we don’t know what to do, she buys like a few bettas per week... anyway she bought a brand new tank and the guy from the store went to her house to help her install it because she lives right next door... he expected to see like floor to ceiling bettas, like a crazy cat lady except it’s a crazy betta lady.... but there was just one. But she buys so many. Apparently she has memory issues and maybe she’s putting them in together and they kill each other.... or god knows.

They were like we’re wondering if it’s morally correct to keep selling her fish.... but honestly seeing the whole trade and how many die in shipping/ while they’re farmed etc etc I don’t think cutting off this one lady would make a huge difference globally in terms of a fish store’s morality....


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Some people troll for sure. But some people just have issues. Last time at LFS this old lady comes in buying a betta. She seems to like know all the staff. After she leaves they’re like ‘it’s really sad we don’t know what to do, she buys like a few bettas per week... anyway she bought a brand new tank and the guy from the store went to her house to help her install it because she lives right next door... he expected to see like floor to ceiling bettas, like a crazy cat lady except it’s a crazy betta lady.... but there was just one. But she buys so many. Apparently she has memory issues and maybe she’s putting them in together and they kill each other.... or god knows.
> 
> They were like we’re wondering if it’s morally correct to keep selling her fish.... but honestly seeing the whole trade and how many die in shipping/ while they’re farmed etc etc I don’t think cutting off this one lady would make a huge difference globally in terms of a fish store’s morality....


That's sad. I can picture a nice little old lady sitting there looking at her male betta thinking "he looks lonely, I should get him a friend". Few hours later the deathmatch is on lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> That's sad. I can picture a nice little old lady sitting there looking at her male betta thinking "he looks lonely, I should get him a friend". Few hours later the deathmatch is on lol.


yap, and then that daily, for like years. I told them to sell her girls. She could get a sorority going. She has a nice tank. But I'm assuming she wants the 'pretty' ones.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I think I lost an ember today maybe, it was kind of stuck by the prefilter and I freed it and it swam off but healthy fish don’t tend to stick to the prefilter... anyway it showed no outward signs of illness, nor does anyone else... water tests fine so it’s probably one of those things. Currently I’m attributing its death to the lack of CO2. 

It’s weird and sad but I really feel no attachment for the embers. My kid really wanted them but their behavior towards the others in the tank really annoys me... I don’t wish them any harm of course but when I saw a struggling fish I must confess I thought ‘oh thank god at least it’s an ember’. Sorry embers. We just didn’t hit it off. 

So here’s a glimpse into the current state of WMB... it is truly ugly so I’m thinking of swapping it out for a different sort of experiment. But there’s quite a little world going on in there.
























It’s impossible to get nice bucket shots. WMB is just not very photogenic.

Anyway the thing I’m considering setting up is another jar, with a variant of the ‘homemade Amazonia’ idea we had been discussing before... there would be a mesh bag of peat and some agricultural charcoal at the bottom... covered with some crushed lava rock and some Tropica. In layers or mixed, I’m not sure yet. The peat should produce the same effect as soil, releasing carbon into the water but decomposing more slowly, the lava rock would give CEC and some sort of filtration/bacteria gathering surface, and the aquasoil will give aquasoil things, hahah. Distilled water, maybe 2-3 gh, ph should go really low.

The idea is to loosely recreate a natural marsh substrate, which plants like ludwigias should really enjoy. Of course this whole thing was not dreamed up by me but by another member with an actual degree in these things, they’re setting up the same thing on their side and I’m happy to experiment along. It sounds like something fun should happen. Watch this space when my awesome fancy crushed lava rock finally arrives hahah.
















Taking pics of my salzmannii while it’s still among the living.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Are you sure that's Salzmannii? I know they were free, but the trimmings from his tank should be PURPLE purple. Like, not just a hint of purple. This is how I expect them to look when growing in low tech =)


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Are you sure that's Salzmannii? I know they were free, but the trimmings from his tank should be PURPLE purple. Like, not just a hint of purple. This is how I expect them to look when growing in low tech =)


Pretty sure? I mean as sure as you can be of anything in this hobby hahah. The light on the jar is very yellow so it changes the colors a bit from purple to pinkish. But they’re not 100% purple purple even outside the light.

They look about similar to the ones @ddiomede got recently for his Landon I think....

Might be a light thing. Guy said the purple coloration actually develops as the plant is defending itself from excess light, it’s basically like sunscreen hahah. In weaker light it will be green even in high tech. Also as these were a gift I doubt he gave me his best stems... 

I really want to find some kind of botanical course and find out all these specific things about different aquatic plants.... I feel there’s a lot more to it than one set of conditions being ‘the best’ for everyone.....


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So Ms Salzmannii decided to uproot herself randomly (I blame the chonky snails bumping against it) so I got the chance to take a few more pics... it’s pretty darn purple honestly.

Oh another interesting thing this dude said was his substrate is so rich, he never risks disturbing it and instead always sacrifices the plant roots and trims right at substrate level. I thought it interesting.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

LidijaPN said:


> Currently I’m attributing its death to the lack of CO2.


Fish _are_ mostly carbon...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> Fish _are_ mostly carbon...


You get me. It's sus. 

He's not really dead btw, all seven were at breakfast this morning. The derp might have really just accidentally got himself stuck behind the prefilter somehow. I'm still blaming lack of CO2.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> View attachment 1043494
> 
> View attachment 1043496
> 
> ...


Yeah that's definitely Salzmannii SG, the regular one will never really get that purple/pink color


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I stopped by Dollarama today and I bought a mesh produce bag and a mesh laundry bag meant specifically for washing bras, and with a bit of sewing I made them into nice round little pouches for my peat/ dirt/ whatevz.

Wonder if it would be worth it to pull up the entire jar and add a pouch of peat and dirt underneath the sand? I’m taking votes!


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> View attachment 1043500
> 
> View attachment 1043499
> 
> ...


Dang, I wish I could sew like that. Whenever I've tried sewing something it looks like I was trying to make it look terrible lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> Dang, I wish I could sew like that. Whenever I've tried sewing something it looks like I was trying to make it look terrible lol.


I’m honestly pretty crap myself. I’m digging deep to remember what my grandma taught me when I was a kid... she was a sewing wizard and I spent a lot of time at her place and it was pretty mesmerizing to watch her. I kinda have to shake it out of ancient memories but I’ve remembered more than I expected hahah. She was incredible though, precision like a machine.... she made the clothes for the whole family, they knew her as the sharpest dressed lady in her town


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

If you could sew a couple of ultra fine filter bags (made for holding Purigen) into circles to fit inside an FX6 basket, I would definitely buy them for whatever you thought was a fair price. Getting a rectangular bag to fit in and fill up a round space is exceedingly frustrating...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> If you could sew a couple of ultra fine filter bags (made for holding Purigen) into circles to fit inside an FX6 basket, I would definitely buy them for whatever you thought was a fair price. Getting a rectangular bag to fit in and fill up a round space is exceedingly frustrating...


I can 100% do that for you, just not sure if the shipping would make it not worth your time? I’ll message you.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I think I'm slowly rolling around to the idea to lifting everything out of the Jararium and sticking a mesh bag with something cool and weird inside it on the bottom under the sand. I'm thinking peat moss + activated charcoal..... if only I can find it somewhere at a normal price. The most annoying thing is when you can't find a totally banal product anywhere near you, then you look on Etsy or something and like the product itself is 5$ and the shipping to QC is 28$..... Like just no. 

I've been having similar issues with natural red clay, where everything on offer is either 20-30$ or 12 kilo packs.... which like..... is way too many root tabs. But I finally found a 1.5 kilo pack of totally natural local red clay so that's on as well! Now to go mineral salt shopping and finally I get to no longer constantly be warned to 'stop paying for water' lol. 

Still not even nearly sure on what exact mix to use but that's what research is for, I guess....... At least I found (well, a kind Forum Guiding Spirit pointed me towards) a good Canadian site with cheap prices for fert salts.... That was also going to be a headache sourcing from the US. If anyone has any tips on the micro mix in particular do let me know what your preferences are.... 

Finally, not related to absolutely anything but I've started following this 'Wealth and Poverty' class by Robert Reich, whom I generally like and follow as he seems to have great insight into the socio-political state of the world.... class is totally free, he teaches it to his students at Berkley but he's made it available to everyone. I'm downright fascinated. He's giving so much information and so much of it is not at all what I had thought it would be..... And because he worked at different positions in the White House he's literally like 'yeah I was there in the room when that policy decision was made' etc etc. Explains things really well and I really think I'll be listening to all 14 hours of it. Anyway nobody else in my life cares so just randomly had to share that here hahah.

PS - What happened to @Virtus? He's been suspiciously quiet for a person with no life.... Is he in surgery for his injury thing? I'm worried.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Okay. I have natural red clay, I have dry fert salts, and we are making root tabs, baby!! 😈

Wish me luck, I’ve heard it’s pretty labor intensive. 

I’m gonna load them up with a PPS Pro ratio mix, as much as they can hold. I’m pretty excited. 

I’m not sure my potassium experiment is really doing anything for anyone except the pearlweed. The pearlweed does seem more content than.... well, ever. Everyone else is in the same situation as before, give or take. Maybe I’m not leaving it long enough but I haven’t really got the patience to wait 12 weeks between changes...

My experimental substrate is almost ready. Pouches have been prepped, I have the peat, have ordered horticultural charcoal and crushed lava rock, am soaking the Tropica. I’m trying very hard not to purchase plants specifically for the experiment, at least at the start. This may prove beyond me lol.

I’m exceptionally close to pulling the trigger on buying a nicrew light, but perhaps it makes more sense to wait after the summer. Urhhh summer. Husband will be alone with the plants for 5 weeks. 5 WEEKS!!! Will anyone survive??? Yesterday he said ‘I really don’t get why you like that jar, it’s just plants with water poured over them.’ 😑


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Ok no, the indica is also looking better.... not ‘good’, maybe, but better.

I have a small java fern that’s doing something very weird, I’ll post pictures to see if anyone can tell what’s up with it.... others seem fine.

Electricity cut out randomly 3-4 times this morning but the filter seems to have kicked back into gear with no problem. I’ll have to clean it out again soon, just in case. 

I think at least one of the berried shrimp has released her babies.... so the waiting game is back on to see how many will make it....

Eichhornia has reached surface again... it makes me happy to see it doing well. It’s currently staring up the skirts of the frogbits which will have to be moved again because they’re currently shading the wrong things...

I think there’s finally some growth on the crispatula!! One has died but other is going strong and I really hope it will thrive.


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## pseudomugil (Aug 12, 2013)

I just want to let you know that I've started saying "I blame the lack of CO2" when random mishaps occur in my daily life.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

pseudomugil said:


> I just want to let you know that I've started saying "I blame the lack of CO2" when random mishaps occur in my daily life.


.....and this is why we’re friends.

Me too, by the way. It’s a really great catch-all explanation.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Jararium still doing well... I’m not sure I’ll risk destabilizing it actually. Might just decide to shove a root tab or two in there and see how the AR and Salzmannii react.








Made a whooooole lotta root tabs! Hopefully they will dry well. Wasn’t sure how long to keep adding ferts... it’s around 250gr of natural red clay with 3 tablespoons of KNO3 and 1.5 tablespoons each of K2SO4, KH2PO4, MGSO4, and CSM&B. I wasn’t sure whether to shovel in more ferts, maybe I could have done but worried about the tabs turning out too crushable once they dry... they’re the perfect color to match my Flourite, can’t wait to try them. Heaven knows how long they will need to properly dry. Was also pretty hard (impossible, rather) to get them to be a consistent size... 

I’m wondering whether a stainless reusable straw might be a good implement to shove these into the substrate. I will experiment. I hope they don’t just fall apart into a clay mush glob instantly. 

I had bought the Nilocg ones and found them extremely unpleasant/unwieldy to insert, they had air inside them and seemed at risk of floating up, also probably they have no real longterm effect because as soon as that capsule casing melts I guess they are just released straight into the water? I do like the Seachem ones in terms of their behavior but simply refuse to pay 2$ per tab..... and I’m pretty sure mine have more ferts inside them anyway.

Finally my crushed lava rock has arrived! Only thing outstanding is the horticultural charcoal. Also ordered a desk lamp from Ikea to shove the new grow bulb into, we’re about to kick things into a new gear here.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

I bought a 30-36 in. NICREW SkyLed Plus a couple wks ago. My Pearlweed was really leggy. Today I had to trim my Water Sprite. It was hiding my Sword. Light is pretty nice at 30 watts No remote. White has 5 levels. I leave the light on 10 hrs. I have it on high about 5-6 hrs.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> I bought a 30-36 in. NICREW SkyLed Plus a couple wks ago. My Pearlweed was really leggy. Today I had to trim my Water Sprite. It was hiding my Sword. Light is pretty nice at 30 watts No remote. White has 5 levels. I leave the light on 10 hrs. I have it on high about 5-6 hrs.


That’s exactly the one I’m looking at... you can program it, right? How’s the pearlweed now? When you say ‘high’ do you put it on the highest setting? Do you add CO2 to your tank?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I just checked on my little fert globs, they feel dry to the touch on the outside but I’m not sure about the inside... they didn’t crack or anything.... I made 256, apparently. That’s pretty crazy. It was a bit of dirty work but if they are at all comparable in content to the store bought ones, the savings are like.... twentyfold? 

I’ll have to experiment a bit with how they put up with insertion and, of course, whether they seem to do anything. When I squish one between my fingers it resists for a while, then crumbles. I’ll let them dry out for about a week I think. My biggest fear is they will fall apart while I’m attempting to shove them into the substrate, that would make them next to useless. 

I’ve just had a genius thought though.... but I have to check if any are small enough. With the stainless straw kit I bought to facilitate insertion I got one thick one for bubble tea.... that could dig down and serve as a channel to roll the root tab straight down to the bottom.... hmmm.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

You could always put them on a cookie sheet and put them in the oven for a while. Like 200 deg f for a few hours. that'll dry them our completely for sure, and it shouldn't have any negative impact on the product.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

jellopuddinpop said:


> You could always put them on a cookie sheet and put them in the oven for a while. Like 200 deg f for a few hours. that'll dry them our completely for sure, and it shouldn't have any negative impact on the product.


oooh that's cool! you're sure it won't impede them from dissolving later?


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> PS - What happened to @Virtus? He's been suspiciously quiet for a person with no life.... Is he in surgery for his injury thing? I'm worried.


I'm alive and well (minus a nasty stomach bug). I do appreciate the concern though!

I can't wait to see your husband's diary entry on the new oven-roasted fert balls!


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

Virtus said:


> I'm alive and well (minus a nasty stomach bug). I do appreciate the concern though!
> 
> I can't wait to see your husband's diary entry on the new oven-roasted fert balls!


Yay you're back! Had me a little concerned too lol


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Virtus said:


> I'm alive and well (minus a nasty stomach bug). I do appreciate the concern though!
> 
> I can't wait to see your husband's diary entry on the new oven-roasted fert balls!


‘I thought she had made the lunch on time for once. She had not.’


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Fert balls should be well done about now. Dying to stick ‘em in the tank but I suppose they need to cool off. Wonder if they sink? Would be ultra annoying if they floated.


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> That’s exactly the one I’m looking at... you can program it, right? How’s the pearlweed now? When you say ‘high’ do you put it on the highest setting? Do you add CO2 to your tank?


There's nothing to program. It has buttons on the wire. White button is 20%,40%,60%,80% and 100%. I do 100% for 5 or 6 hr and the rest of the time its 20 or 40%. The Pearl weed grew to the surface but it was already leggy. I cut it back and put a half an API tab by it. The light I had was an Aqueon hood with a LED tube. It was a step up from the kit. I bought a better HOB and better heater too. I then bought another white LED tube, Still wasn't enough light for a 29g... pic is 100% for white. I'm still able to use the hood. I got 2 Gold Rams. 1 only lasted 4 days.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> There's nothing to program. It has buttons on the wire. White button is 20%,40%,60%,80% and 100%. I do 100% for 5 or 6 hr and the rest of the time its 20 or 40%. The Pearl weed grew to the surface but it was already leggy. I cut it back and put a half an API tab by it. The light I had was an Aqueon hood with a LED tube. It was a step up from the kit. I bought a better HOB and better heater too. I then bought another white LED tube, Still wasn't enough light for a 29g... pic is 100% for white. I'm still able to use the hood. I got 2 Gold Rams. 1 only lasted 4 days.
> View attachment 1043655
> 
> 
> View attachment 1043654


So you switch the light intensity by yourself every day?


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

Oh and NO! ... for the CO2.... I want to keep it simple. It's the KISS method


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> So you switch the light intensity by yourself every day?





LidijaPN said:


> So you switch the light intensity by yourself every day?


Yes. I have it on a timer set at 10 AM to 10 PM. It will remember the last setting. At noon or abouts I jack it up to 100% and after 6 PM I turn it back to 20 or 40%


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

A little algae but I had that before. If it gets worse I"ll cut the light time back


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

The Blue LEDs have 5 settings also but I leave them on 100% all the time. At 48.00 dollars US from Amazoo it won't break the bank


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> A little algae but I had that before. If it gets worse I"ll cut the light time back


Ok honestly it’s sounding more and more like the perfect upgrade for me... thanks for sharing that!!


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

The 24-30 will work but you lose 4 watts. I got the 30-36 30 watts and it fits perfect without pulling the hangers out the sides. So far so good. I wish I could offer more but it's new to me too


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RK3WL said:


> The 24-30 will work but you lose 4 watts. I got the 30-36 30 watts and it fits perfect without pulling the hangers out the sides. So far so good. I wish I could offer more but it's new to me too


No this was hugely helpful! 

I think it will make sense to get it once I come back home from the summer trip. No sense leaving hubs alone with the new light and whatever issues might ensue. 

So I baked the fert balls and most of them are looking pretty white and crystally from all the salts..... I think I’ll start gently, with like 2-3.... just to make sure I haven’t made something lethal.... they feel unbreakable under my fingers now. I hope it won’t stop them from dissolving... I left them at 175F for about 2 hours. 

I’m almost all set to do the new experiment jar but honestly I’m wondering if that’s not better left for after summer vacation too.... of course I want to just do it. But it will leave hubs with a lot of weird plant care. I mean he doesn’t really have to do that much to the jars.... but it might just feel overwhelming. Also it will be hot, not sure how I’ll be cooling the jars. Ice cubes plus some isolation probably.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Alrighty, I’ve baked and cooled the fert balls and they came out like this... you can see them all salty like... hopefully that means they’re full (but not too full!!) of ferty goodness!

I always have been a woman of patience and measure, so I shoved six into the main tank and two into the jar, caution be damned. Now we observe for any discernible changes in plant behavior and overall happiness. 

I did a lot of trimming and pruning and tidying and came away with a really nice feeling about my tank and jar. They’re not the most showy in the world but they’re largely doing really well. I feel it’s easy in this hobby (and others) to only have eyes for the things you’re still failing at, but sometimes it’s nice to appreciate the successes too. 

I’m deeply torn on whether or not to set up the experimental jar when my Last Ingredient arrives.... on one hand, I’d be leaving it to husband to care for, and any course correction and even close observation will be difficult..... on the other..... impatience is the nature of my being.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

Those look awesome! I'm excited to see how this all shakes out.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

If my plants seem to like them I can send y’all some by post to try out  

They behaved ideally during insertion, were very easy to push into the substrate, both with my fingers and with a stainless straw.


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## atyre2 (9 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> So it is my firm belief that NOT all my plant issues come from the same source. I'm trying to figure out the best way to test out that theory. To this end I thought I'd put together a list of all my plants and everything I know about what they need/ like/ what might be bothering them.... and maybe we can come to some conclusions together.
> 
> Overall factors we need to keep in mind: (we being me, lol)
> 
> ...


Damn that is a lot of plants! Thanks for posting the summary though, helpful as I plan what to add after I move.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

atyre2 said:


> Damn that is a lot of plants! Thanks for posting the summary though, helpful as I plan what to add after I move.


Yap, my name is Lidija and I am a plant hoarder 😂

The really weird thing is I have a bunch of others I wanna try! But after the summer some of the current lineup will probably get the boot.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I bought a terrestrial grow light at Canadian Tire to test out on the Picklescape.... it reads about twice stronger on the Photone app (which is my new favorite toy) but weirdly to my eye it doesn’t look that much brighter.... I’ll see how the pickles like it. 

The pickles have been growing so reassuringly with their one single tiny led spot light, I’m almost worried to change anything for them... but who even are we if we don’t continuously poke at things?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Just swimmin’ casually next to old Gary here.....








Huh?!? Gary, what the heck, man? You’ve really let yourself go!! You should ask Miss Amano for a haircut.... love that confused lampeye face.








One of the mama shrimp with just 2-3 last straggler eggs under her swimmerets.... so the hunt is on, I guess. Good luck tiny shrimpies.








So this was the more expensive of the two grow bulbs, at 21$..... the other one (below) was just 8.5$ and I couldn’t work out exactly what the difference in strength was because they don’t give the same measures except for the wattage... one is 9W and the other 8.5W.... but I’m not sure what that means in terms of brightness. So I bought the cheaper one for now.

Anyway as you can see from the photos the jar really doesn’t look particularly wildly lit..... but Photone reads 45 par, where the previous light read 25.... and the 25 was actually only concentrated in this one teeny tiny spot because it’s a single tiny led diode. Anyway I don’t even know if I’m worried whether it’s too much light for the pickles or still too little.... we shall observe and fret ineffectually.

















Finally for no reason, my kid’s drawing which he brought from school today, ‘monster in a jar’. We like the same sorts of things


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Light comparison on the Jararium - top is old light, bottom is new... I was reading something today about lumens being used to measure the levels of light we perceive, and PAR is used to measure what plants use for growth... I think I got that right? Did not entirely get how those two correlate. Anyway the old light was a very crappy random table lamp and new light is supposed to be an actual full spectrum plant grow light, albeit not aquatic per se, so it’s.... bound to be an improvement? I wonder if we get any algae from it. Was thinking of capping the photo period at around 5hrs for a start.

Salzmannii definitely putting out paler leaves... for now jello doesn’t have to eat his shoes 😅 We’ll see if the new light makes any difference.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I had put one stem of Bacopa Salzmannii SG into the Picklescape and the other into the bucket... no point letting them die in the main tank... the jar one seemed to be doing much better than the bucket one so I moved the bucket one into the jar too... jar is the best lit right now so it gives them the best chance. I trimmed some of the other jar inhabitants to make sure the fancy boys have room under the light... 

I’m very curious how they will do. And not only for the prospect of Jello’s shoe eating video 😂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I’m really fascinated by how complex these systems are... so I got a few stems of AR from someone a while back and I put most in the main tank and some in the jar. The tank ones seemed to be converting amazingly until they were almost at the point of emersing... I trimmed them so they wouldn’t and since that trim they literally disintegrated on me.... the Jar AR however is doing so beautifully. Top sides of leaves are not red, lower ones are green, then they turn to an olive-mustard tone and the top ones are rosy orange... bottoms are that striking AR cyclamen/magenta. Leaves are straight and long and it looks really beautiful. 

I’d sell a piece of my soul to know what specific aspect of Jar life is making such a difference for it.....

Anyway I had to trim it today, for the SG. Hopefully it doesn’t mind.


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

I'll have to read your journal later but is that the purple bacopa I've been hearing about? Looks pretty. The jar looks great too.

Are you keeping any livestock in the jar? There's a guy in Singapore I'm following that also maintains lots of beautiful, no-tech jars which I find absolutely amazing. He also keeps fish in all of them, and while I would never keep fish in such tiny set ups I've actually seen his jars in person and his fish seem very healthy and happy in their homes so it definitely can be done.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

chicken.nublet said:


> I'll have to read your journal later but is that the purple bacopa I've been hearing about? Looks pretty. The jar looks great too.
> 
> Are you keeping any livestock in the jar? There's a guy in Singapore I'm following that also maintains lots of beautiful, no-tech jars which I find absolutely amazing. He also keeps fish in all of them, and while I would never keep fish in such tiny set ups I've actually seen his jars in person and his fish seem very healthy and happy in their homes so it definitely can be done.


Yessss it’s the Singapore variant of salzmannii which is very very purple!! Well, in high tech at least. I’m trying to see what can be done with it in low tech.

Only jar inhabitants are snails so far, although it is fully cycled and parameters are steady. Other people have told me they put fish in there to eat the little copepods and such but honestly I would not feel comfortable keeping any species I know in there. Maybe shrimp one day if there’s any reason to separate them out from the main tank... or maaaaaybe fish fry while they’re pretty small and growing out? No full grown fish for sure.

What species is he keeping? Where are you following him, can I follow him too lol? I love seeing nice jars, there’s something very cool about them. I’m about to set up another one soonish hahah.


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Yessss it’s the Singapore variant of salzmannii which is very very purple!! Well, in high tech at least. I’m trying to see what can be done with it in low tech.
> 
> Only jar inhabitants are snails so far, although it is fully cycled and parameters are steady. Other people have told me they put fish in there to eat the little copepods and such but honestly I would not feel comfortable keeping any species I know in there. Maybe shrimp one day if there’s any reason to separate them out from the main tank... or maaaaaybe fish fry while they’re pretty small and growing out? No full grown fish for sure.
> 
> What species is he keeping? I love seeing nice jars, there’s something very cool about them. I’m about to set up another one soonish hahah.


He has got multiple jars, from his instagram posts he's keeping tiny fish like boraras brigittae (which I'm sure you're familiar with), sundadanio axelrodi and the like. It's been a long time since I last visited but I remember being astounded by how clean all his jars and larger aquarium are and how well his plants grow. I could send you his instagram handle if you like.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

chicken.nublet said:


> He has got multiple jars, from his instagram posts he's keeping tiny fish like boraras brigittae (which I'm sure you're familiar with), sundadanio axelrodi and the like. It's been a long time since I last visited but I remember being astounded by how clean all his jars and larger aquarium are and how well his plants grow. I could send you his instagram handle if you like.


Yes please!! ♥

My brigittae are tiny but they explore so much I’d not want to limit their space so severely... but I’m sure they could thrive in a large jar given enough plant life and such. Honestly of all my fish they’re most likely to just pick a shaded secluded part of the tank they like and just hover around that part hunting rotifers off the wood or whatever.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So I am somewhat obsessed with the Picklescape since it got a new light.... it just looks so much better now. I’m extremely curious as to how all the plants will respond when they’ve had a chance to readjust. You can see the two salzmannii in there, left is the bucket one that’s visibly paler and right is the jar one that also isn’t quite strongly purple but isn’t as green as the jar one. He was also under the old jar light though, but the light was focused straight at him.... now I’m wondering if they’ll show any change in response to the new light. The Pickle Jar just looks so moody and cute.

I’m really struggling with deciding what to do with the new jar (let’s dub it the Cookie Jar, in contrast with the Pickles...) I had this whole setup idea to do this elaborate homemade active substrate, and I’m super curious how that would do... but on the other hand people have some superbly beautiful emersed jars and that sort of feels very attractive as an idea too... of course I could do a compromise and do a flooded Cookie Jar but let some stems emerse.... but it would defeat the purpose of the Magic Substrate because the idea is to see how well plants can thrive without The Gas Which Shall Not Be Named. And obviously if they emerse it’s moot. Although they still have to grow up to reach the surface.... murgh. Not sure. Basically I should have multiple jars and accept my inevitable divorce.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

I just went digging through the cool and very very long 'low tech tank showcase' thread that @Chucker kindly pointed me to, and one thing that leaps out at me again and again and again is that people have an absolute TON of low tech setups that have thriving specimens of plants that have struggled for me repeatedly - hygro polysperma, different easier rotalas and ludwigias, even AR and AR mini - that have all struggled for me in my main tank. I tried to see if I could work out what the difference was and mostly it seemed to be active substrate and more light. In spite of clearly having more light than my tank they didn't seem to be drowning in algae..... I'm sure the active substrate does help plants take what they need, but as I do fertilize a reasonable amount for a low tech tank, I'm left with the belief that some degree of increase in my light might bring good things for the Dinky 29g. 

There are definitely very gloomy and practically unlit low tech tanks too, but those really do tend to stick to epiphytes and mosses. 

This seems to be borne out by the fact that both the AR and the Ludwigia super red have done far better in the Jararium than in the main tank, and though light is not the only difference between those two (there is also maybe one extra degree of less KH in the Jararium) I think the light may be the more impactful one..... Anyway now the Jararium has received a light upgrade, so I will observe the plants with, if at all possible, even more keen interest than before hahahh. If they seem to benefit from the added light and things don't get swamped with algae...... I guess we're gonna light up the 29


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Will I have to rename the thread again? ...I think I’ll need to rename the thread again.

So I cooked up some peat moss and mixed it with some horticultural charcoal, in some indeterminate proportion where there’s definitely more peat.








Modified a bra washing mesh bag from Dollarama and filled it with peat and charcoal mix.









Plop into the Cookie Jar.








Enter red crushed lava rock. Crumbles under fingers and honestly looks a whole lot like my Flourite. I’m gonna assume it is what it says it is because what choice do I have. I rinsed it somewhat as it was pretty silty, but not like a lot-a lot.








Plop on top of my peat pouch, then Tropica on top of that.








First filling








End of day.

Notice any issues?

....yeah. Not much room left in there really.

It’s supposedly a 1 gallon jar but I’m not sure it really fits a gallon... but with how tall the substrate ended up being the plants sure won’t have room to climb far.

Still this is an experiment and as such it’s worth running I think. If it overflows too much I’m thinking of getting a 2 gallon jar and just moving everything over.

I could also let some plants emerse here.

My picks to start off the Cookie Jar:


ludwigia sp. super red
ludwigia repens
AR mini

Then we observe.

Lid won’t stay on, just thought it was cute. 

Light is the same 8,5W grow bulb like the Picklescape. 

For now filled with pure distilled water. Wonder if there’s any reason to bump up GH?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Let me just point out firmly that this jar, as well as any subsequent Jars, Buckets, Tubs, Tupperware containers et. al., is not, nor shall ever be, another tank.


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Let me just point out firmly that this jar, as well as any subsequent Jars, Buckets, Tubs, Tupperware containers et. al., is not, nor shall ever be, another tank.


"Multi Container Syndrome"


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> "Multi Container Syndrome"


Pretty much lol. But I shall not be misdiagnosed with MTS. 

MCS however...... yeah.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Meet the cookies.
















So there are two plants I still sort of want to try once I sort out the light situation on the 29g.... One is Hydrocotyle verticillata or something similar, and the other is a Limnophila hippuridoides or Limnophila aromatica.... That could be super fun and should thrive fine in low tech.

Oh by the way apparently I'm making my own supplementary light. That's the sort of person you have turned me into. A person who is shopping for LED drivers online. Scandal.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

New jars and building your own led light fixtures, but it’s definitely NOT mts…  right! 

Seems like a lot of substrate for the size of that jar. Did I miss the reason for that or is that just the way it worked out? Lol.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

johnson18 said:


> New jars and building your own led light fixtures, but it’s definitely NOT mts…  right!
> 
> Seems like a lot of substrate for the size of that jar. Did I miss the reason for that or is that just the way it worked out? Lol.


oooh yeah hahah it just worked out that way. I may have been able to get away with a little bit less but I already put it in like that and I don't wanna mix the Tropica and lava rock together immediately... I mean it will mix over time anyway and if the jar gets ridiculously too small for its inhabitants I'll upgrade it to a 2 gallon and put something else into this one. Thank god they're just jars and not tanks, amirite? Dodged multiple bullets there, whew. 

I'm very excited about making my own lights. Hubs is pretty sure we will get electrocuted. I'm pretty sure we won't. Like, fairly sure. Maybe.


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## Mr.Submarine (10 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Meet the cookies.
> View attachment 1044063
> 
> View attachment 1044064
> ...


I planted hydrocolyte verticillata in my new tank and am very excited about how it might turn out. It looks like it comes from some kind of Super Mario Bros. world. The tissue culture cup of it I bought from aquarium plants factory seemed really healthy by the way. Also, I read that h.verticallata differs from some other pennywort species in meaningful ways — for example it does not have a notch in its top leaf.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Mr.Submarine said:


> I planted hydrocolyte verticillata in my new tank and am very excited about how it might turn out. It looks like it comes from some kind of Super Mario Bros. world. The tissue culture cup of it I bought from aquarium plants factory seemed really healthy by the way. Also, I read that h.verticallata differs from some other pennywort species in meaningful ways — for example it does not have a notch in its top leaf.


It does look like a video game plant hahah!!! So cute!

I’m very curious how my cookies will grow. They’ve all been struggling for a while in the main tank.

The pickled salzmannii on the other hand is turning purpler and throwing out a side shoot... once the side shoot grows I’ll move it into the Cookie Jar. I don’t want to destabilize the main stems since they seem to be settling in.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

So cleaning up the tank during water change today I noticed a few things that irked me a bit. One is a tiny bit of spot algae on some anubias and lobelia cardinalis. Not a lot but I don’t like it. I think it’s because of the dramatically dying AR raising organics in the water so I got rid of it. It’s still thriving in the Jararium so I can try again in the main tank when the light is better.

Another is that my poor crypt crispatula TC just keeps losing leaves. It’s clearly unhappy for some reason. All my other crypts are doing really well.... multiplying like crazy. Crispatula tonkinensis is sooooo cool looking and I really want it to thrive but somehow I’m starting to doubt it.... its leaves do not melt, they just randomly break off. It makes me sad.

Naturally I blame the lack of CO2.


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## zaubertuba (8 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> I'm very excited about making my own lights. Hubs is pretty sure we will get electrocuted. I'm pretty sure we won't. Like, fairly sure. Maybe.


If you're worried about line (120V) voltage, have your Husband (or yourself) install a GFCI outlet in the circuit where your tanks or plugged in. Or, if that's not possible, there's always this:

GFCI Plug Adapters

Honestly if you're experimenting with LED strips though, you probably will be using some kind of transformer to step the 120V AC down to 12V or 24V DC, at which point you won't have a lot to worry about. 

Lighting has come a long way from the world of High Voltage Metal Halide and HO Fluorescent fixtures.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

zaubertuba said:


> If you're worried about line (120V) voltage, have your Husband (or yourself) install a GFCI outlet in the circuit where your tanks or plugged in. Or, if that's not possible, there's always this:
> 
> GFCI Plug Adapters
> 
> ...


I love how everyone thinks I know what these things are 😂

Yeah I’m using a driver/power supply that should reduce the current so... that works I hope? ⭐

Edit: reading up on gfci outlets I actually love the idea... I’ll look into it. My husband is not the sort to install anything lol. And the apartment is a rental... but maybe we could change one outlet.


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Oh by the way apparently I'm making my own supplementary light. That's the sort of person you have turned me into. A person who is shopping for LED drivers online. Scandal.


Hey, at least it isn't Big CO2...


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> Hey, at least it isn't Big CO2...


That will be my ultimate demise 😂


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## Chucker (Apr 9, 2011)

You've gotta make it past August 15th - I've got $10 riding on it!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Chucker said:


> You've gotta make it past August 15th - I've got $10 riding on it!


Easy! I’m just getting started with the substrate experiments. And it will take months for sure to figure whether the new light is making a difference.... 

Serious note, yes I want to grow cool plants but at the moment I really don’t feel any draw towards CO2. Maybe if all my efforts fail and I can’t grow anything more demanding than limno sessiliflora no matter how hard I try, I end up reconsidering.... but if that comes it will definitely be further down the line than Aug 15 lol.


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## RadOtter (10 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> So it is my firm belief that NOT all my plant issues come from the same source. I'm trying to figure out the best way to test out that theory. To this end I thought I'd put together a list of all my plants and everything I know about what they need/ like/ what might be bothering them.... and maybe we can come to some conclusions together.
> 
> Overall factors we need to keep in mind: (we being me, lol)
> 
> ...


Are you happy with your lotus? I picked a bulb up the other day on a whimsey and planted it in a deskjar. Trying to decide if it warrants planting it in my new tank.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RadOtter said:


> Are you happy with your lotus? I picked a bulb up the other day on a whimsey and planted it in a deskjar. Trying to decide if it warrants planting it in my new tank.


Honestly I love him but he is not the most intuitive..... He was reasonably big when I bought him, didn't even have a bulb, just some roots. He proceeded to slowly and dramatically die off over the next few months until there was nothing left. I had pretty much given up on him. Then another few months later he popped up in the same place, tiny tiny tiny. Now he's slowly growing out again and looking nice but he is not really going wild or sending leaves up high.... I can barely see him because things around him have grown out and he is still really low. This is good for you because I thought they become immense but he is not really doing that so far, so he could be a good choice for a small tank. I LOVE how they look. But he is really not thriving. I didn't think he would need a lot lightwise but I will see if my new light makes him perk up. I make sure to trim around him so he gets what light he can. 

Overall I get the feeling that it's the luck of the draw, if you get one that grows like a beast and spreads roots everywhere and chokes everything around him, or you get a really shy timid one like mine which behaves well but is hard to get to thrive. I even gave him a root tab.


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## RadOtter (10 mo ago)

LidijaPN said:


> Honestly I love him but he is not the most intuitive..... He was reasonably big when I bought him, didn't even have a bulb, just some roots. He proceeded to slowly and dramatically die off over the next few months until there was nothing left. I had pretty much given up on him. Then another few months later he popped up in the same place, tiny tiny tiny. Now he's slowly growing out again and looking nice but he is not really going wild or sending leaves up high.... I can barely see him because things around him have grown out and he is still really low. This is good for you because I thought they become immense but he is not really doing that so far, so he could be a good choice for a small tank. I LOVE how they look. But he is really not thriving. I didn't think he would need a lot lightwise but I will see if my new light makes him perk up. I make sure to trim around him so he gets what light he can.
> 
> Overall I get the feeling that it's the luck of the draw, if you get one that grows like a beast and spreads roots everywhere and chokes everything around him, or you get a really shy timid one like mine which behaves well but is hard to get to thrive. I even gave him a root tab.


Hm curious. I picked it up before I read that they get huge. Your's gives me hope though. Fingers crossed for a shy dud. I also really love they way they look, but knowing my luck it'll explode and shade out my wee nano tank. Maybe I'll try planting it in straight sand so it doesn't gobble up aquasoil and go all kaiju on me.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

RadOtter said:


> Hm curious. I picked it up before I read that they get huge. Your's gives me hope though. Fingers crossed for a shy dud. I also really love they way they look, but knowing my luck it'll explode and shade out my wee nano tank. Maybe I'll try planting it in straight sand so it doesn't gobble up aquasoil and go all kaiju on me.


It would definitely go kaiju on you in aquasoil. Apparently they really love to feed through the roots.... the one in my lfs looks like it would chomp your hand off during water change, I’m pretty sure it eats their fish. They’re magnificent tho.

I wonder if mine perks up with more light...

They apparently go dormant from time to time, but some people have said theirs doesn’t do that...


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## RK3WL (10 mo ago)

You ask me about my light if it was programmable. I said no. They do have a timer for this light that has like 6 different settings. I would have bought it had I known.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WT8VK28?ref=em_1p_0_ti&ref_=pe_2313400_646711130&th=1


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Soooo you know how I have to do, like, literally everything? 😅

.....here it is, the loofah moss rock. 

I really wonder if it will be possible to remove the netting once the moss attaches... I get that the idea is it won’t be visible but I’ll _know_ it’s there.

Everything else progressing as ever. The salzmannii twins are putting out new leaves... not as green as they previously were but I wouldn’t call it purple either. More like a brownish color? Looking forward to seeing what they do as they settle in more and grow closer to the light. 

Cookie jar has nothing to report yet, no sign of either growth or deterioration. The gravest patient is the ludwigia meta which is literally a hair’s breadth from melting away entirely... it will be an absolute miracle if it pulls through. Everyone else was stunting but not in any mortal danger. I can’t wait to see how everyone does.


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## Katmanreef (Jul 6, 2017)

LidijaPN said:


> View attachment 1044179
> 
> Soooo you know how I have to do, like, literally everything? 😅
> 
> ...


The loofa moss rock!!!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Soooo you know how I have to do, like, literally everything? 😅
> 
> .....here it is, the loofah moss rock.
> 
> ...


No you don't remove the netting. If you do 99% of the moss will come off with it, as it's anchored to the netting not so much the rock. Some moss will never (well maybe not never) attach to certain rocks especially if they're smooth. 

Also on the Bacopa, so the SG variant still needs strong light to stay purple. What PAR are you guys running to keep it so.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> No you don't remove the netting. If you do 99% of the moss will come off with it, as it's anchored to the netting not so much the rock. Some moss will never (well maybe not never) attach to certain rocks especially if they're smooth.
> 
> Also on the Bacopa, so the SG variant still needs strong light to stay purple. What PAR are you guys running to keep it so.


Well I’m only going off the Photone app which might not be precise but it rates the jar as getting around 60 ppfd at substrate... so I guess it’s more where the plant tops are. But I had them under worse light temporarily so they could still be recovering.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Katmanreef said:


> The loofa moss rock!!!


Lol I knew you’d be excited to see him 😂


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Lol I knew you’d be excited to see him 😂


Did you buy or make the loofa moss rock? Oh, you made it of course


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Did you buy or make the loofa moss rock? Oh, you made it of course


You say that like it’s a bad thing 😂

But yeah. I mean I’m making my own light but I’m gonna buy a Loofah Moss Rock. Haahahah.

Honestly if there is a local market for these I might sell them. They’re super cheap to make.... I got a bunch of fissidens for 3$, rocks are free and the 1$ loofah will give me enough material for fifty of them. Let’s see if they green up the way they’re supposed to.

I could have a small container suction-cupped to my tank wall and pop them in there.... since there’s no ground room.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> You say that like it’s a bad thing 😂


Of course not, I've been covering rocks with moss/netting for like 10 years LOL. 











There's a rock and netting under there somewhere. Can you count the number of Christmas Trees?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Of course not, I've been covering rocks with moss/netting for like 10 years LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ll definitely try Christmas moss too! For now doing fissidensssssss


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Picking up a couple new crypts tomorrow, because one can never have too many crypts.

Also the last leaf fell off my second tonkinensis. I guess he or his previously de-leafed brother might pop back up phoenix-style at some point but right now I am sad and must drown my sorrow in more crypts.


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## chicken.nublet (Mar 29, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Picking up a couple new crypts tomorrow, because one can never have too many crypts.
> 
> Also the last leaf fell off my second tonkinensis. I guess he or his previously de-leafed brother might pop back up phoenix-style at some point but right now I am sad and must drown my sorrow in more crypts.


Have you managed to troubleshoot what's bothering your crypts? You mentioned that they keep dropping their leaves but do they ever grow new ones?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

chicken.nublet said:


> Have you managed to troubleshoot what's bothering your crypts? You mentioned that they keep dropping their leaves but do they ever grow new ones?


No  Crispatula has lost its last leaf. It’s just gone. Don’t know if it will come back ever. I have a bunch of random other crypts that are all 100% fine... never melted, they lose a leaf here and there but generally grow well and make babies. Just the poor crispatula. Maybe because it was TC. Maybe it will come back. No idea.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Picking up a couple new crypts tomorrow, because one can never have too many crypts.
> 
> Also the last leaf fell off my second tonkinensis. I guess he or his previously de-leafed brother might pop back up phoenix-style at some point but right now I am sad and must drown my sorrow in more crypts.


I'm actually surprised you like crypts. First the name itself is pretty creepy and then look at that evil looking thing coming out of mine.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> I'm actually surprised you like crypts. First the name itself is pretty creepy and then look at that evil looking thing coming out of mine.


I seem like the bubbly ‘look at the pretty flowers’ type? Lol.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> I seem like the bubbly ‘look at the pretty flowers’ type? Lol.


Picklescapes, Cookie Jars, a snail named Gary and Creepy Crypts. Which doesn't belong?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> Picklescapes, Cookie Jars, a snail named Gary and Creepy Crypts. Which doesn't belong?


Crypts are not creepy, they are just multidimensional and misunderstood, like me 😂 Pray for my usteriana and albida brown.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

LidijaPN said:


> Crypts are not creepy, they are just multidimensional and misunderstood, like me 😂 Pray for my usteriana and albida brown.


I will and speaking of misunderstood, there is of course Audrey. I had to move her into a bigger house and her pitchers are now 4" in size. Just because she slowly dissolves her prey in a pitcher of digestive juice doesn't make her creepy does it? 











So now in my Kitchen I have Audrey, the Alien Spathe and a co2 Cylinder My wife is loving it!!!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Asteroid said:


> I will and speaking of misunderstood, there is of course Audrey. I had to move her into a bigger house and her pitchers are now 4" in size. Just because she slowly dissolves her prey in a pitcher of digestive juice doesn't make her creepy does it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Audrey is a sweet precious baby, look at that stunning orange leaf she made!!

Seriously though my whole household are massive fans of the odd and bizarre in the animal world. My kid gets super excited by mantises, giant grubs, stick insects and phasmids and we spend tons of time in aquariums, insectariums and the ‘deadly poisonous plants’ and ‘carnivorous plants’ sections of our botanical garden. We made a cabinet of curiosities with some pretty weird stuff and the other day he came from school wildly excited to have learned that some species of parrotfish build themselves a mucus bubble cocoon every night to sleep in, which protects them from parasites and masks their smell to predators.


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

LidijaPN said:


> Audrey is a sweet precious baby, look at that stunning orange leaf she made!!
> 
> Seriously though my whole household are massive fans of the odd and bizarre in the animal world. My kid gets super excited by mantises, giant grubs, stick insects and phasmids and we spend tons of time in aquariums, insectariums and the ‘deadly poisonous plants’ and ‘carnivorous plants’ sections of our botanical garden. We made a cabinet of curiosities with some pretty weird stuff and the other day he came from school wildly excited to have learned that some species of parrotfish build themselves a mucus bubble cocoon every night to sleep in, which protects them from parasites and masks their smell to predators.


Marine fish are wild. When I set up my first marine aquarium, the first fish I owned was a Bursa Triggerfish. I turned the light off and the next day when I turned it on the fish was gone. As a young teen I was panicked because I shoveled a lot of sidewalks to get the fish. I looked around the tank, behind it, and couldn't find it. I started moving corals around, the big conch shell, nothing. I sat there confused and upset and about 5 minutes later the triggerfish backs itself out of the conch shell. It apparently found itself a bedroom and was in it the whole time. 

Wrasses need sand for substrate because as you get ready to cut the lights off, they swim up to the sand, and literally bury themselves under it. When I set up a bare bottom reef tank I really wanted a leopard wrasse but I didn't have any sand. I basically took a ceramic shallow dish significantly larger than the wrasse and really deep, filled it halfway with sand and then hid it behind my rock work. At night the wrasse would go back there and bury itself in the sand lol. 

With the exception of schooling marine fish, they seem to actually find a comfy spot and go to sleep.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

ddiomede said:


> Marine fish are wild. When I set up my first marine aquarium, the first fish I owned was a Bursa Triggerfish. I turned the light off and the next day when I turned it on the fish was gone. As a young teen I was panicked because I shoveled a lot of sidewalks to get the fish. I looked around the tank, behind it, and couldn't find it. I started moving corals around, the big conch shell, nothing. I sat there confused and upset and about 5 minutes later the triggerfish backs itself out of the conch shell. It apparently found itself a bedroom and was in it the whole time.
> 
> Wrasses need sand for substrate because as you get ready to cut the lights off, they swim up to the sand, and literally bury themselves under it. When I set up a bare bottom reef tank I really wanted a leopard wrasse but I didn't have any sand. I basically took a ceramic shallow dish significantly larger than the wrasse and really deep, filled it halfway with sand and then hid it behind my rock work. At night the wrasse would go back there and bury itself in the sand lol.
> 
> With the exception of schooling marine fish, they seem to actually find a comfy spot and go to sleep.


You made him a sand bed, that’s the cutest!!! ♥

My kid desperately wanted us to set up a bobbit worm aquarium, took me a lot of explaining to clarify why we can’t hahah. Though it would be cool.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Opened up my new plants... picked them up from a local place. Albida is a little tiny looking but the usteriana looks flat out magnificent. Will plant tomorrow.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Me: wow what are these little guys?
Lfs guy: oh those are embers.
Me: but they’re literally magenta?
Lfs guy: yeah IDK, that’s a weird tank. 
Me: is it the light making them look so hot pink? 
LG: naw, look. (Moves light to the side. Fish sre still frikkin fuchsia colored)
Me: you’re totally sure they’re embers? 
LG: yeah I know they’re embers because I got a bigger batch and split it between a few tanks... only these are that color tho. It’s a weird tank.
Me: you don’t say!! They look like you feed them beets only.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Well re-hello there, everyone.

I’m back from the longest summer vacation ever.

Things happened.

First off, I came back from Serbia to a fair bit of disaster. Hubs tried to keep the main tank going, he did water changes as instructed but didn’t really follow through with ferts etc. Also the summer was pretty hot. Also I had added my handmade Frankenstein light to the tank, though just for an hour and a half per day.

The fish are all perfectly happy. Flatty is still good, Daisy is still good, all well on the fish front.

I thought Miss Amano might have checked out but she’s still with us too. There are still some yellow cherries in there and are occasionally preggers but either they’re crazy good at hiding or not many babies are getting away from my teeny sharks.

At some point during my absence there had been a snailpocalypse. Empty shells everywhere. There are still living ramshorns and bladders but all pretty small and not that many.

About half the plants have died. Pretty brutal. Lost some things I was really fond of. A lot of green hair algae sprung up, probably because of the added light. I’ve cut down light duration to try and get them under control, hasn’t worked yet. There isn’t any algae growing on the actual plants but it does get tangled in them sometimes. It’s very annoying.

Pickle Jar gotcompletely devastated. All that’s left there is the rocks, some tiny anubias, a lot of hair algae and one incredibly determined snail. I think it was small and just cooked in the summer heat. I have to pretty much restart it.

In sharp contrast, the Murder Bucket is THRIVING. Everything in there is bursting with health, an amazing little balanced ecosystem. Fissidens rocks got beautifully covered, they’re really fun. A little sad the plastic bucket is my most successful aquarium, but it’s very interesting nonetheless. The bucket got literally zero care while I was absent, save water top ups with distilled.

Cookie jar is doing second best, things don’t look amazing but are holding on and starting to emerse.

So how is everyone? What did I miss? 😅


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## Jekk (Jan 11, 2022)

Welcome back Lidija! I was wondering where you disappeared to!

Shame you’ve come back to some issues mate, but nothing I’m sure you can’t fix.
Got any pics?


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Jekk said:


> Welcome back Lidija! I was wondering where you disappeared to!
> 
> Shame you’ve come back to some issues mate, but nothing I’m sure you can’t fix.
> Got any pics?


Pics, of course!!









buces doing surprisingly well!!








overall look after today’s water change… everything has gone a bit messy. I pulled out tons of hair algae and whatever plant life it was hopelessly wrapped around… also excess coontails, pearlweed and the like. Now that my life is getting sorted out again I want to try and steady the main tank, before I bring over some lush bucket life.








Vals are happy. Snails are less plentiful but still present.








Pellia has taken off really well in this dark corner. You can see the snail skeletons left over from the snailpocalypse.

I’ll snap some bucket pics tomorrow when the lights come on. It’s hard to take good pics of it because it’s an ugly-a$$ bucket but I WISH my tank plants were doing as well as my bucket plants.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Welcome back!


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Welcome back!

You may wish to look into the "one two punch" to deal with algae caused by a known imbalance. Search for it on the forums. I've not lost livestock doing it, but not everyone is so lucky, so you may wish to remove things before using it.


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## Goodwood (May 5, 2021)

Welcome back! I was wondering where you went. Hope all else is well! I bet you will get it sorted out quickly!


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

minorhero said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> You may wish to look into the "one two punch" to deal with algae caused by a known imbalance. Search for it on the forums. I've not lost livestock doing it, but not everyone is so lucky, so you may wish to remove things before using it.


I’ll consider it if the slow and steady method doesn’t work. I’m not in a panic because the algae is already better than it was…. And it isn’t doing anything drastic in there. But the nuclear option is always there haha


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Goodwood said:


> Welcome back! I was wondering where you went. Hope all else is well! I bet you will get it sorted out quickly!


All else is…. In process of emotional recovery hahah. I’m excited to geek out over wet plants with you guys again.


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## geraldk (12 mo ago)

Welcome back, hope you're doing OK! I was curious to see how your tanks were going while you were away, it's good to see them kinda sorta doing OK. One thing to be aware of after a snailpocolypse is their decaying shells might raise the GH of your water if you leave them in there. I guess that could be a good thing...
And man, your buce looks great, you could propagate that so much.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

geraldk said:


> Welcome back, hope you're doing OK! I was curious to see how your tanks were going while you were away, it's good to see them kinda sorta doing OK. One thing to be aware of after a snailpocolypse is their decaying shells might raise the GH of your water if you leave them in there. I guess that could be a good thing...
> And man, your buce looks great, you could propagate that so much.


The buce is the only nice thing that didn’t die a horrible death!! I’ll probably fish out the shells, or some at least. My gh is not a sore point so I doubt it matters much …


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## Bootsy (Jul 4, 2021)

So good to see you again! Sorry to hear about the plantpocalypse, but at least the fauna seem to have weathered it.


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## EmotionalFescue (Jun 24, 2020)

LidijaPN said:


> I’m back from the longest summer vacation ever.


...it's November.

Glad to have you back! Truth be told, you were kind of the life of the party around here...


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## ddiomede (Feb 21, 2011)

Glad to see you're back! Sorry to hear about your tank going downhill during your vacation 😢 

I bet you'll have it back in tip top shape in no time!


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## Krib (Mar 31, 2007)

Welcome back @LidijaPN! I too was wondering where you went. I am glad to see the Murder Bucket thrives, at least.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

EmotionalFescue said:


> ...it's November.
> 
> Glad to have you back! Truth be told, you were kind of the life of the party around here...


It is indeed November!! 😅 Things happened 😅









Murder Bucket is very unphotogenic but so so lush!! With literally zero care. 








Pickles died a tragic death, must restart.
















Cookie jar chugging along, it will be fun to see how things do once they emerse and have access to famous CO2. I want to fertilize the jar but having trouble figuring out the dosage for this minuscule amount of water….


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## Marc_G (Jul 6, 2012)

Welcome back! Things have been quiet without you in the forum!

It's hard to leave our tanks on vacation, isn't it!

I'm sure your stuff will have complete recovery over time. Looking forward to your next project.
🙂


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

Marc_G said:


> Welcome back! Things have been quiet without you in the forum!
> 
> It's hard to leave our tanks on vacation, isn't it!
> 
> ...


Aw thanks!!! Yeah it didn’t help that after vacation life was just very complicated so there wasn’t much fish time….

my current curiosity is about the cookie jar plants which are starting to peek out and emerse. They’re transitioning quite well, but I really wonder what’s the procedure when they grow too tall… can I snip off the emersed ends and just stick them down underwater again?


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