# Long time relationship with algae



## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Tank Algae*

Hello i...

Water with high levels of phosphates and nitrates is perfect for alage growth. The best things to do are large weekly water changes of at least half the tank volume to remove these rutrients and get some of the small brown or red varieties of "Ramshorn" snails. These little guys eat all kinds of algae. They are fast breeders and can pile up in the corners of a tank.
If you get too many, you can get some Loaches to control the snails.

I do large, weekly water changes and have a lot of the snails and have no visible algae in any of my planted tanks.

Planting fast growing stem plants like Water wisteria and Water sprite will help too. I like floating Pennywort in the tank. Any of these will use up extra nutrients in the water.

Above everything else, have fun!

B


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I've been battling this algae in one of my tanks as well. It's called rhizoclonium and it's a PITA to get rid of. I've found that a combination of less light and more flow tends to help a lot. Removing what you can every day also will help keep it under control. I have a few black mollies and they seem to munch on it, but not enough to make a huge impact. Weekly water changes seem to have no impact. Not sure if ramshorn snails will eat this stuff but I doubt it. I tried using excel as well and saw no improvement.

IMO this is one of the hardest algae's to get rid of. Best of luck.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*high levels of phosphates and nitrates = algae,,, NOT!*

Hello iambannana, I'm hobbynutz LOL

I'm guessing you're tank is still high light with 2x52w but low tech (without pressurized CO2). How long do you run the lighting? How far is the light from the substrate? This thread will help with lighting. (Thanks to Hoppy)
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html

High levels of phosphate and nitrate is *NOT* the cause of algae problems in 99% of planted aquariums. If it was all the members dosing EI would have nothing but a mess to deal with. Also *large water changes can cause issues in low tech tanks.* Clean water is a great thing but not the answer to the issue you are having.

Two threads on the topic with lots of information that I hope help you understand what may be going on in the water box.

Hope some of this helps.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/33636-easiest-method-dealing-bba-low-tech.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-tank-faq/110422-methods-algae-control.html

Almost forgot (sorry) WELCOME to the site! *AND* the anchor in the tank is awesome looking!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> ...Also *large water changes can cause issues in low tech tanks.* ...


:icon_ques:icon_ques:icon_ques

Mike - Would you expound on that point please?
Thanks


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

DogFish said:


> :icon_ques:icon_ques:icon_ques
> 
> Mike - Would you expound on that point please?
> Thanks



The theory, as I understand it, is something about water changes (sudden once a week fluctuation in Co2 level? sudden fluctuation in available nutrients, or lack thereof?) is conducive to BBA type algae specifically. Basically in a low tech setup the balance and stability are better at keeping certain types of algae at bay. Since it's a low tech tank, one can bypass the water changes to help combat this. Some physical removal and a Siamese algae eater (they seem to eat the hairy stuff) would certainly help as well. 

I tend to agree with this personally. Water changes are overrated on properly stocked low tech tanks in my opinion. After getting beaten over the head everytime I mention that I've taken it upon myself to test the theory. My old 30 gallon has been setup since mid December...and I have purposely not done a single water change. Water tests great, plants are growing, guppys are breeding, no algae to speak of. 

Anyways, we all know the biggest contributor to this situation was the insane amount of light without Co2, lol. I'd probably drop back to one light for a while, cut back on water changes, physically remove what I could...and maybe bomb it with Excel. Oh, and add more plants. More plants always make things better if you ask me. :biggrin:


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

DogFish said:


> :icon_ques:icon_ques:icon_ques
> Mike - Would you expound on that point please?
> Thanks


I can read and do when a topic has my attention. Diana Walstad goes into it at length in her book. Tom Barr’s low tech approach includes his thoughts on the topic along with many of the posts he makes in response to algae questions just like this one. Tom made several posts in the first algae thread I linked in my first post explaining some of it. Stability in a low tech tank is easier to maintain without the frequent large water changes. The why’s of all this span several topics including CO2, nutrients, DOC (dissolved organic content) and Redox Potential. While I’ve read study materials and articles several times I’m not qualified to reword another’s knowledge on those subjects.

In my fondness for NPT style dirt tanks time and again I have seen the practical results of large frequent water changes. Large frequent water changes *ALWAYS* result in algae in my low tech dirt tanks.

Personally I think the big >50%WC is more important high tech dosing EI or at startup for removing large imbalances. Ammonia / nitrite levels when starting with an immature tank (without fish) I allow the levels to go as high as possible then do a good (>50%) WC to reduce the resulting nitrates. Once the tank is established most of the filtration is done in the tank by the plants and any filter plays only a small role. This is the difference between a planted tank and aquariums kept for fish alone. Several of my tanks only have sponge equipped power heads and the turnover ratio many talk about is completely ignored. I have enough flow to create movement and clean the sponge if I see reduced flow. Certainly every setup and plant mass is different but low tech this works. 

I reconstitute RO for all my tanks to the range of 4-6dGH and 2dKH using GH booster and baking soda. If I dose a system (and I don’t do all of them) all ferts are added based on tested levels. WC's are done as needed NOT scheduled. 
2-5ppm PO4 and 15-30ppm NO3 target. K2SO4 weekly for 15ppm if I don't do a WC. My old dirt tank I leave alone without adding anything and clean GDA off the glass _*maybe*_ once a month.

WC is done here based on rising TDS readings or the parameters getting hosed up.
HTH


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## iambannana (Jan 19, 2012)

The lighting is About 600 of the substrate, at the Moment I'm changing about 30 to 50 % of the water once a week, do you think doing smaller water changes every day would help?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> ....Tom Barr’s low tech approach includes his thoughts on the topic along with many of the posts he makes in response to algae questions just like this one. Tom made several posts in the first algae thread I linked in my first post explaining some of it....




I went back and read that link. I saw a comment about influx of nutrients after a W/C, I'm not seeing any reasoning behind the comment.?

I've being doing weekly 30-40% water changes in my low tech tank and I'm not seeing these problems?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

DogFish said:


> I went back and read that link. I saw a comment about influx of nutrients after a W/C, I'm not seeing any reasoning behind the comment.?
> 
> I've being doing weekly 30-40% water changes in my low tech tank and I'm not seeing these problems?


"not seeing any reasoning behind the comment" who's? Barrs or mine

I try to remember 'never say never and never say always' especially with this hobby LOL. Glad you have no issues.

Honestly never had algae ruin a tank here except medium / high light systems and those only if I neglected it, like being gone on a 2-3 week vacation and even then I could bring it back. 
What I've seen with the algae and water change relationship here has been consistent on my Walstad method tank and to lesser degree on the others where I dose trace along with minor NPK additions after each change.

Mainly GDA on the glass and while I'm not positive I tend to agree with the reports that a lack of PO4 promotes it.

Barr made these statements in the linked post and I agree with them.
_The water change flushes the tank with lots of fresh CO2 rich tap water._
_This one time flux once a week favors the Algae, BBA likes slightly higher CO2ppms, around 5-10ppm seem optimal and flowing water._

_You need a good well planted tank for this to work._
_You also need a source of nutrients for the plants in a non CO2 tank, fish waste and soil/nutrient rich substrate can typically supply perhaps 80-100% of the nutrients, some plants will certainly benefit from KNO3/KH2PO4/Gh/Traces once a week or two or if you want to use inert substrates/lighter fish loads or the substrate is depeleted._

_adding more plant biomass to the tank, reducing the fish population/feeding etc._

_Removing waste we export a lot as plant trimmings, cuttings and dead leaves etc, filter pad cleanings etc, _

Managing the organic loading is how I see it. Lots of plants and a reasonable stocking of critters.


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

I've been battling GSA on and off on my ADA 120-P since 2007.... but this is purely due to my (dumb?) goal of trying to learn what it takes to have a balanced planted tank with reef-worthy lighting*

*ATI Powermodule 4x54W T5HO. Even at 14" above the tank, and having a DIY cover with black 1/4" pond netting, I still recorded at least 110 umol at the substrate level.

When I re-do the tank in a couple of weeks, I'll go back to just running 2 bulbs at a time LOL!


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## chicken (Aug 22, 2007)

DogFish said:


> I've being doing weekly 30-40% water changes in my low tech tank and I'm not seeing these problems?


I do weekly 30-50% water changes on my low tech tanks, and I don't think I'm seeing any problems either. I have seen problems when I have neglected the tanks and not changed the water for a few weeks or more, however. 

I understand the reasons that these big water changes are supposed to be a problem, but it has not been true in my case. It has always seemed to me that my tanks are healthier with large, regular water changes. 

One thing that has occurred to me is that perhaps the tanks' health is not a direct result of the water changes, but a result of the attention I pay to the tanks when I change water regularly --trimming, removing dead plants, removing algae, etc. 

To get back to the OP's original question, I'd be inclined to agree with what AzFishKid said about less light and more flow.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Mike - I was talking about T.Barr's reasoning. The quotes you listed, were what I read.

Maybe I'm not having problems because I'm heavily planted and have light Bio-Load of fish? I don't dose that tank with ferts, I use tap water & Prime. 

Just to be completely accurate, I don't wipe of some diatom from the tank walls each week, some spot algae on the driftwood that the merits eat. In two months I've had a few filaments of hair algae that I've removed with some H2O2. To me that's not a problem it's a normal part of having an Aquarium.

Are were on the same page as what a "Problem" is?


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Guys...this is not a one size all hobby. We all know that there are far too many variables on each one of our tanks to make hard and fast "rules". I mean two tanks, exactly the same, and one of them getting 15 minutes of direct random sunlight (and maybe some ambient) from a window is going to behave/respond completely differently than the same tank in a basement on timed lighting. Fish, water, plants, plant load, ferts, Co2, lack thereof, light, light duration, substrate...luck? You all know this.

I just don't think we are ever going to find an answer that suits all scenarios. 

If you are having algae troubles, the things discussed here are something to try. I'm not opposed to water changes...I just don't feel like they are the magic pill to everything that goes wrong with an aquarium. I do know that inconsistency of anything in an aquarium benefits the algae, and I do know that fish can go a month without a water change and not explode. (Unless they are discus, lol :icon_mrgr )

It's just another thing to try. roud:


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## thechibi (Jan 20, 2012)

Well. My plan to deal with this brown, fuzzy hairlike algae that's strangling my moss is 

1) Manual removal
2) PP or H2O2 dip
3) Now that I have the nutrient calculator and that awesome liquid ferts dosing kit, I should be gravy! The light timer too.


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## steak (Sep 3, 2007)

I had this algae. I know I heard it was a colonial diatom, and I think I read that it was. I stopped dosing potassium, and they went away in less than a week.


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## steak (Sep 3, 2007)

it seems to look just like yours. So, I would stop dosing completely for a week and see what happens.


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## iambannana (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm not dosing ferts, do you think I should stop dosing flourish excel as well? I've ran the tank with just one blue lamp for a week but it doesn't seem to be slowing it down any..


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## steak (Sep 3, 2007)

yea, i'd stop dosing the excel and see what happens


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