# Storm's ADA 60P - Update 3/14/12 - Happy Pi Day - LEDs are wonderful!



## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Please post any suggestions besides these 3 layouts, like for example reversing a stone. Thanks!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Nice start Storm. I think your stone layout needs a focal point. It seems kind of spread out right now. My eyes doesn't know which stone to focus on. Check out this article on Iwagumi by ADG Frank. It might help give you some ideas on how you want to layout your stone. Oh...and where and how are you going to hide your filter? 

*ADG Frank's Iwagumi Article*

Edit: Here's a couple more Iwagumi articles. 

*Article 1*

*Article 2*


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

DUDE!!!! If you invest more and get the 120p or what ever fit that space from wall to wall..... it would be epic!

damn that new logo looks like the tank made by NASA or something from outer space.

** btw make the substrate flat with a slope upward to the back.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> DUDE!!!! If you invest more and get the 120p or what ever fit that space from wall to wall..... it would be epic!


LOL! I would love to have a 120P here but the wife would kill me... :biggrin:



shrimpnmoss said:


> Oh...and where and how are you going to hide your filter?


Thanks for the articles! I'm going to either put my filter behind the white pillar where the Aquatek box is (it will be visible from the side) or up in the cabinets above the fridge which is to the right of the counter. I'm not sure if the Eheim will pump fast enough elevated 3 feet above the tank though...

Ok, I redid the hardscape, put a big slope towards the back right and tried to make a focal point on the left with the two stones arching towards each other. Let me know what you guys think:


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

I don't know if you need a typical slope. Most tanks are view from one side. This looks like it will be a 2-sided tank. You should lay it out so that it looks pleasing from the kitchen and the "front" of the tank. More likely than not this tank will be enjoyed from the kitchen more frequently. You know what they say. The kitchen is the most occupied room in the house.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Hmm... getting better. 

Try moving the two-rock arrangement on the left a bit to the right, and move the rightmost stone sorta in front of the other two. Make a mound so it looks like rocky hill/ peak with the substrate flat at all four edges. Just to see how it looks. It needs to look good from both sides.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

jcgd said:


> Hmm... getting better.
> 
> Try moving the two-rock arrangement on the left a bit to the right, and move the rightmost stone sorta in front of the other two. Make a mound so it looks like rocky hill/ peak with the substrate flat at all four edges. Just to see how it looks. It needs to look good from both sides.


+1. One master stone and 2 slave stones.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

jcgd said:


> Hmm... getting better.
> 
> Try moving the two-rock arrangement on the left a bit to the right, and move the rightmost stone sorta in front of the other two. Make a mound so it looks like rocky hill/ peak with the substrate flat at all four edges. Just to see how it looks. It needs to look good from both sides.


Thank you for your tips. I just made the changes you suggested. What do you think of the big stone? Right now there is a part on the left of it that is hanging without substrate underneath. If I bury it a bit more it will be snug to the substrate, but I am trying to keep the height.

Front view of tank (living room - I want this to be the best view because it will be viewed from this room more often):










Rear view of tank (kitchen):


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

I like this layout the best. but to make it better IMO bring the middle rock forward about an inch and to the right slightly. Then take the one on the left out and replace it with the one on the right... Then take the other rock that you don't have in their and put it where the one the right used to be. Then take the rock that used to be on the left and lay it on its side in front of the rock one the right.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Quick question- Which 3 stones did you use out of this picture? Then i can give you my opinion.


I took out the middle stone in the grouping of 3 stones on the left. Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Cheers. my opinion is in my post above.


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## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Your stones are too similar in size to split up - put all the stones together so it looks like one complex rock at the golden ratio point.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Ok, here's all 3 of the stones together at a rule of 3rds point. Perhaps this would look better in the center?


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

That last picture looks better, when you grouped it together. How about instead of pointing them all together, try pointing them outwards. Putting the two larger ones in the back so you see a V shaped gap then the small one in front of the V.


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## Bettacrazy (May 22, 2011)

that looks pretty good! how about putting the two smaller ones togethor on the left and have the larger one on it's own on the right?


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Another option centered with all 4:


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

I tried facing them outward in the last layout and it didn't seem to work... the stones are too big to group like that and the angles don't seem to fit.


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## asukawashere (Mar 19, 2010)

Try this:
Take the biggest stone, stand it more or less up on its end, and angle it outward to the left. Do the same with the 2nd largest stone, but to the right. The 3rd largest stone can be angled from the front left upward to the big stone one the left. The smallest can be closest to the front, more or less centered, and as a horizontal foil for the other stones.

That probably doesn't come across well in my explanation, but I'm a visual person, not a direction writer 

In an ideal world you'd have 5 of these stones - you always want to place larger/focal stones in odd numbers if you can.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Ok, I think I have a layout that I am more or less happy with. The 4 stones were all so large that none of them could be a Suteishi or sacrificial stone. I decided to take the ugliest stone, put it in a paper sack, and break it with a hammer. Now I have lots of smaller stones to work with.

Please let me know if any of these should be moved or if they break the energy/flow:


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## asukawashere (Mar 19, 2010)

You've got the start of something good going with the leftmost trio of stones, but the right side doesn't do much for me... but I'll have to think on it a bit to come up with any suggestions.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Not four, four is very unlucky, Three, Five, or Eight, Fibonacci. You took the forth one and made four more. Now you have three and four. Break one again or take two out.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

There are 7 stones total now, not 4. You are supposed to have odd numbers of stones, right? I understand that 4 is very unlucky - the word means "death" in Chinese... 

Planting e. bellum:











Final result - going to glue fissidens to the stones and fill soon:


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

It looks good! 

That is the tallest belem I've seen! Hope it starts curling down for you soon!


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Yeah, the belem looks way to tall - once I get new growth I'm gonna trim the old growth.

Big problem - I just filled the tank and hooked up the Eheim 2215 - the water flow is so fast from the spraybar that it hits the front of the tank, goes down the front to the substrate, and starts blowing the Aquasoil around - I'm not sure how to reduce the flow but it uprooted a bunch of my e. belem already and I had to unplug the filter because I'm afraid the Aquasoil erosion is just going to continue.

Any ideas how to fix the flow? I heard 2215 was the right filter for an ADA 60P.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

you can reduce the flow by slightly closing the valves on the quick disconnects.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks, I just lowered the flow on the outflow quick connect and now the flow is much more reasonable. Do you know if this reduces the life of the motor at all?

Next step is to get the Co2 injected - will post updates soon.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Ok, updated picture - Co2 is flowing. Stems are going in tomorrow in the background. I never said this was going to be strictly Iwagumi. This is "Iwagumi with trees..."

Apologies for the cloudiness - it was just filled today:



In case you want to see, here is a picture of equipment:


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## Bettacrazy (May 22, 2011)

looks good! what other plants are you going to put in there?


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Bettacrazy said:


> looks good! what other plants are you going to put in there?


Thanks! I'm going to add some Rotalas. R. colorata, green "narrow leaf", and butterfly if I can find it. I may also add some frogbit initially just to soak up nutrients and help prevent new tank algae from forming.


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## Bettacrazy (May 22, 2011)

cool! what plants are the ones in there? sorry I am still trying to memerize plants.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

yaay we have the same co2 tank. I think you're the only one I ever see with JT tank lol.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Bettacrazy said:


> cool! what plants are the ones in there? sorry I am still trying to memerize plants.


I'll update the first post as I add things, but for right now this is what I have:


Eleocharis Belem
Staurogyne Repens
Rotala Colorata (coming soon)
Rotala Green "narrow leaf" (coming soon)


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> yaay we have the same co2 tank. I think you're the only one I ever see with JT tank lol.


Nice! I was going to get a 5 lb. tank but it has to be on the kitchen counter and I think the wife would freak if I had a huge industrial size Co2 tank... The Aquatek regulator is awesome though - only $79.99 and a $20 adapter for paintball and you are good to go.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

New plants! I just planted Rotala colorata, rotala green "narrow leaf", a bonus blyxa japonica, and some Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum'. There is one more rotala that I got a single stem of, but I forgot what it's called. I also added some frogbit to help soak up excess nutrient and hopefully avoid new tank algae.

Now it's time to watch it all grow!

Front view:










Side view:


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## Bettacrazy (May 22, 2011)

looking good! what fish are you going to put in it?


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Bettacrazy said:


> looking good! what fish are you going to put in it?


I think I'll have a few Oto cats and a school of cardinal tetras.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Update 10/21/2011:

Good growth so far - just added an Oto and a red ramshorn snail:










This particular stem of colorata is growing really nicely and the bottom of the stem (behind the rock; not shown here) is getting a nice red coloring:


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## gkaquatic (Sep 4, 2011)

how is the growth using the 2x24" t5 light? im getting a 60p and picking a lighting option is driving me nuts!


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Update 11/4/2011 - Last week I trimmed the hairgrass using Amano's method - mow all old growth down and keep only the new growth. The rotalas have filled in amazingly well and I'm going to do my first trimming tomorrow.


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## karatekid14 (Jan 16, 2011)

Are you dosing and ferts, 'cause looking at this, maybe I won't have to.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

karatekid14 said:


> Are you dosing and ferts, 'cause looking at this, maybe I won't have to.


So far no ferts have been dosed. The Aquasoil has a ton of nutrients in it, and I'm trying to minimize ferts in the water column to help prevent algae. If I get a deficiency I'll probably have to dose at some point, but so far, so good.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

gkaquatic said:


> how is the growth using the 2x24" t5 light? im getting a 60p and picking a lighting option is driving me nuts!


The 2x24" T5 growth is crazy - I probably have slightly too much light - about 120 PAR according to Hoppy's chart. 2x24 will have no problem growing anything - check the growth between 10/21 and 11/4 - that is only 2 weeks and the stems grew about 12"!!! The stems are so tall now they are curling over at the top and reaching halfway down to the bottom of the tank.

If you're looking for a good low-cost option, the Fishneedit 2x24" that I went with works great. It's only $64.99 with bulbs. If you want something a little better you might look at their 70 watt metal halide as long as you have something you can suspend it from. Good luck!


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Great jungle look to the tank, excellent growth


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Looking good.roud:


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## dmattbfan5 (Sep 11, 2011)

Awesome tank! I love the two-sided idea. That adds alot to a room. I like the setup you went with too. I have the same c02 tank too!


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## dtsuyuki (Nov 16, 2009)

I love that stone.. tank looks great... =)


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks for all the support everyone! I got some new plants: Limnophila aromatica 'hippuroides' Purple. There is also a school of 8 rummy nosed tetras in there somewhere.

Here are some new pictures:


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Beautiful colors, very nice looking


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Update 11/17/2011 - Added Lily Pipes and 5 veil tail cherry barbs.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/StormAquascapes

This is what the Lily Pipes box looked like when it arrived - I was pretty worried that I would have a box full of glass, but luckily they were intact.










Sorry I don't have a full tank shot; it is very difficult to get one right now because the house being under construction right in front of the tank means I can't get a good perspective.

Left side:








Left side from another angle:








Right side:


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Time for an update! There is not much to report except that I've done my second large trimming, but I think I didn't trim quite enough. It's grown back very fast, but I should have trimmed lower. It's too bad I didn't read Frank's great ADA/ADG thread until after the trim. Plants have been having great growth, and I've trimmed the grass at least 3 times now (this is less than a week of growth).

I really wanted to thank Frank for the great journal thread because I've already seen a difference in water clarity just from raising my lily pipe to aerate the water the last 2 nights.

FTS:









Side shot (hello, Oto!):









Right side:









Right side:









Left side:


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

A bit of an update - I'm battling some cottony algae that is forming in the hairgrass and on the moss. Other than that, the tank is doing well with great growth.

Right now I'm just dosing P, K, and traces 3 times a week, and doing twice weekly water changes. The plants are really healthy but the cotton candy-like algae is starting to take over:










It's also forming on Fissidens moss I have attached to Ohko stones:










Any tips?


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Other than the algae that is forming, the rest of the tank looks good:


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## DrewWoodside (Apr 1, 2008)

Storm said:


> Other than the algae that is forming, the rest of the tank looks good:


What lighting system is this? Where can I buy it? Looking to put something similar on a 33.6 gallon Mr Aqua. This is pretty much what I have in mind for the lighting..


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

DrewWoodside said:


> What lighting system is this? Where can I buy it? Looking to put something similar on a 33.6 gallon Mr Aqua. This is pretty much what I have in mind for the lighting..


It's a Fishneedit 2x24 T5HO fixture. It costs $64.99 with bulbs at www.fishneedit.com. Overall it's a decent fixture, but it is a bit cheaply made and the quality is not that great. It's been working ok for me though, and it would probably be good for the 33.6 gallon Mr Aqua.


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## fusiongt (Nov 7, 2011)

It does look great, sorry about the recent algae problems you're having. I read through all the pages and also liked the two sided perspective but now all the background plants are tall. Could we get a pic of the back? heh

Have you thought about adding some shrimps in? I don't know if they'll like that type of algae you have but they're always a good clean up crew (and would certainly roam around at the back of your tank too giving you more to look at)


ps - isn't it great having a tank right next to the kitchen? water changes are so easy!


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

your tank looks great..thanks for sharing. Your stem plants look great. maybe get some amano's or get in there an pull it out?


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## BioHouse (Jan 30, 2010)

it's hard to pull all of them out. but pull out most as you can and do put amano's in there! they clear up like no other. trust me


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks for all the kind words. I'll post a picture of the back soon, but it is not much to look at because it's just a bunch of really tall stem plants... I like it though because I can see the fish when they go back there to hide sometimes.

I did just add 2 Amanos in there a few days ago. They pretty much disappeared into the rotala forest and have been "cleaning the trees" for the most part. I haven't yet seen them munch on the cottony algae but maybe they just haven't gotten around to it.

I'm going to do a big trimming and water change tomorrow and I will try to clean all the algae out. Pics to come soon.


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## DrewWoodside (Apr 1, 2008)

Storm said:


> It's a Fishneedit 2x24 T5HO fixture. It costs $64.99 with bulbs at www.fishneedit.com. Overall it's a decent fixture, but it is a bit cheaply made and the quality is not that great. It's been working ok for me though, and it would probably be good for the 33.6 gallon Mr Aqua.


Does it seem it will be breaking down at some point soon? Or is it already having issues with working currently.. I may be interested in it, it's well priced. Has it been the right power for you to grow most all plants so far? It came pre assembled for the most part right? Thanks!


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Yeah, the fixture has been working great, it's probably a bit too much light for me so I just unplugged one of the bulbs today. I really don't have many complaints about it - just know that it has a lot of plastic parts and it's not going to be ADA quality construction, but for the price, you really can't complain. It comes completely pre-assembled with bulbs installed already, and the plastic mounting arms in case you want to set it on the rim of your tank like I did.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Some new pics after the trim:


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## U2Kent (Jul 28, 2011)

How's it look now? definitely considering hairgrass as a carpet in my 60p thanks to these shots.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Well, I actually pulled the hairgrass a couple weeks ago and planted glosso instead. The hairgrass takes over everything eventually - it even sent runners underneath the stones into the background, and it was a pain to trim it since it gets so tall. Sure, it looks good right after a trim, but it's not worth the hassle unless you're doing an iwagumi with only hairgrass, and very tall stones that won't get buried.

Here are new pics. I also replaced the T5HO light with a pair of Innovative Marine 8 watt LEDs. The glosso was just planted a couple weeks ago so now we wait for it to carpet...


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## endgin28 (Feb 9, 2010)

Looks really healthy. The foreground should come in clean. Nice work.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

How do you like those LEDs?


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## ADAtank (Jul 26, 2011)

I really like the plant selection I think its going to grow out nice. Good move taking out the hairgrass.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

endgin28 said:


> Looks really healthy. The foreground should come in clean. Nice work.


Thanks! This picture was right before a trim of the background. I'm looking forward to a nice glosso carpet.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

oldpunk78 said:


> How do you like those LEDs?


So far they are pretty nice. I like the clean look, and the coverage with 2 of them is decent for a 60P. They give med-high light for a 24"x9" section of the tank. The one drawback is that the 60P is 24"x12". For me, this is ok, because the background grows too fast anyway and those rotalas don't really need high light. So, I aimed them at the front 9" of the tank and they have pretty good coverage. The temperature is 10K though, so they are a little white for my taste. Not blue though, but my sakura cherry shrimp lost some of their red coloring with the new light.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Nice tank and setup. I got the Belem HG since it does not grow fast like normal HG.


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Time for an update. The Innovative Marine lights have been growing plants like nobody's business! The tank has never looked cleaner either. I do have a few small specs of BGA on the glass (you can see them if you look really close), but I have also not cleaned the glass in 2 whole months! Check it out:


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Those lights are sleek and sexy. I like them. Tempted.


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

What kind of lighting am I looking at if I use one of these 8w leds on a mini-m? according to the PAR graph at 12 inch its about 20-50 PAR. but goes up to 80 PAR at 6 inches. this is for a 12 x 9 area. the mini-M is 14 x 8. so it would be a couple of inches cut off... I want to replace my lighting soon but def want to find something more efficient and dont want to spend the $$ on a ADA light. I want med-high lighting because I will eventually add co2. Whats your experience with this light so far? thanks... btw, tank looks incredible.


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