# Kingborris' wild discus tank



## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

After having run a 45 gallon planted discus tank with mixed success for around 3 years, I decided an upgrade was in order. Many of the troubles I had experienced with the old set-up had been due to lack of space, and therefore not enough discus to spread aggression. For this new tank, I decided to do things a little differently. 

*The Idea*

The plan was to combine a conventional large tank set-up with a hydroponic system for growing terrestrial plants. This would hopefully act as both a scenic surround for the top of the tank and to act as a form of nutrient export (by the growth of plants) for the set-up. The basic idea for this came from an article on the DPH site for helping to rid tanks of nitrates and phosphates using hydroponically grown wheat. My tank was to be an evolution of this idea and actually make it part of the tank’s structural form. 










*The Tank*

The tank I decided on was a 60x24x30” high tank, with some custom glasswork that I designed myself to support the hydroponic functionality. The back and side brace bars were positioned 4” from the upper edge of the tank. These were then boxed in with additional glasswork to form four channels around the back and sides. These channels would act as both weir from the main tank and the area for the hydroponic growth media to be located. Each boxed channel would have a 1x4” section removed to act as the weirs from the main tank area. Water overflows through these cut outs and down into the channel. At the other end from the cut outs, each pair of channels meets at a conventional corner weir where the standpipes will be located. There is an additional brace bar that runs along the very upper edge of the front pane not shown on the diagrams below for clarity. Its position is just above the water level, allowing an unobstructed view of the water from the substrate to the surface. 

























*The Filtration*

The filtration for this set-up is fourfold. The first line of filtration and water purification is the numerous plants growing in the tank. Both the aquatic and terrestrial plants help to suck up excess nutrients, especially the fast growers and floating plants (see plants section below). The next area of filtration comes from the hydroponic grow media. Water is constantly trickled through the porous media to keep it moist. This acts as a wet / dry style trickle filter, providing an additional biological filtration capacity. The next and main level of filtration comes from the sump I have built into the design. The water flows from the two corner weirs down to the sump, which is a custom made 40x20x15” tank. 

The sump has three main sections, plus two internal weirs for housing pumps. The first section of the sump is for mechanical media, which consists of an 8” deep layer of coarse foam across the full 20” width of the sump, with a 3” layer of floss underneath. A divide forces water to flow down and through this media. The next and main section is for the biological media. This consists of 50kgs of Alfagrog and various spare bits of foam as well. All of the media in the sump is kept off the bottom by a layer of egg crate raised up 1” on plastic supports. This allows any dirt that escapes the mechanical media to settle on the glass and can then be removed without moving the biological media. It also helps prevent any dead spots. The final section is entirely separate from the rest of the sump and holds pure RO water for a Deltec auto top-up system. This RO can also be laced with fertilisers as required to create an auto dosing system.


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

The two internal weirs at set at 1” and 2” below the level of the divide between the mechanical and biological media. The lower of these two houses an Eheim 1250 pump which feeds the forth filtration system. This is comprised of a Rainbow Lifegard fluidised sand bed filter (rated at 300 gallons) and a 25w Vecton UV steriliser. The FSB filter requires very little flow through, which also works well with the UV to prolong exposure times. The return from the UV outputs to the first mechanical media bay, so acts as a closed loop within the sump. 

The second upper weir houses the main Eheim 1260 return pump which leads to the CO2 reactor (see below), and the control gear for the top up pump. If the level of water in this weir drops, the top up is activated via a float switch. 

*The Plumbing*
My initial design was to utilise ‘Stockman’ variant ‘Durso’ style standpipes to handle the movement of water from the main tank’s weirs to the sump (www.dursostandpipes.com). I had three holes drilled in the main tank, 2x20mm and 1x40mm with one of the 20mm pipes for the return piping. However, the design proved to be very noisy. I was advised of an alternative that uses two down pipes per weir, and looked to give near silent operation. Each weir has a lower and upper standpipe. The lower of the two is connected to a ball valve to limit the flow through the pipe to just under the required volume. The extra water (a trickle) flows through the second higher standpipe, which also serves as an extra pipe to handle the full flow through should the pipe with the ball valve become blocked. I now needed to find a way of adding an additional two pipes to the set-up. The return was taken out from the cabinet and passed behind, as this didn’t need to be located within the main tank. Adding a second return pipe on the right hand side involved more work. An inner core pipe of 20mm was inserted into the 40mm pipe to create the upper overflow. Using a combination of a T-junction and a reducer, the two pipes could be separated under the tank, allowing the 40mm to be restricted with a ball valve and the inner 20mm to be free to flow to the sump. All four down pipes run to the mechanical media bay of the sump. 










*The Planty Stuff*

_*Lighting:*_
There are three levels of light for this tank, daylight, dusk / dawn and moonlight. The daylight lighting for this big and deep tank needed to be quite significant. Based on cost, performance and general appearance I opted for a metal halide pendant. I decided an Arcadia Series 3 3x150W pendant would provide enough light to provide decent plant growth in all areas of the tank, and to illuminate the plants in the hydro area. For my choice of bulbs, I went with Iwasaki 6700K bulbs, as they are of a daylight colour temperature and have a very high CRI. These halide lights are on for 10 hours a day. 

In addition to the halides, there are also 2x58W T8 fluorescents running Arcadia Original Tropical bulbs. These provide the dusk / dawn lighting for an hour either side of the halides. The moon lighting is produced by 2x 12” blue cold cathode tubes attached to the pendant. These give nocturnal viewing for two hours after the dusk period. All the lighting periods overlap by a minute or two to give a fairly smooth transition from one period to the next. 

_*CO2 Addition:*_
Due to the relatively high levels of light, CO2 addition was a necessity. This is injected via an Aquamedic 1000 external CO2 reactor positioned on the return pipe work from sump to the main tank. This ensures that any CO2 lost as the water gets to the sump is replaced as it travels back to the main tank. The CO2 is injected from a 7kg cylinder, and is controlled by a solenoid and JBL pH controller. 

_*Substrate:*_
I opted for a two-layer substrate for this tank. On the very bottom, I added a 100W 40’ soil heating cable, to help reduce any the chances of dead spots forming. On top of this, I added a 1” layer of Fluorite substrate. This should provide a decent nutrient rich base layer for the plants. On top of this, an additional 1 ½” layer of BD Trading Aquarium sand was added. I prefer using sand to gravel for the upper substrate layers, as I find it anchors plants well, and is easier to keep clean, as any waste / left over food just sits on top. Its also ideal for the fish I keep in this tank. 

_*Fertilisers:*_
I dose with Aqualife Plus for micronutrients and iron, and then dose magnesium, potassium, phosphates and occasionally nitrates as required. I am still exploring what dosing is required as fish and food loads change as the tank has become stocked. 

_*Hydroponics:*_
The hydro section as said in the tank design is split into four separate channels. My initial plan was to simply put expanded clay pellets into the channels to act as the grow media. However, it soon became apparent that this caused too much resistance to the flow of water through the channel, and the media became water logged. The solution to this was to create a central area at the base of the channel that didn’t contain any of the media. I bought a length of perforated plastic tubing (the type often used to act as a guard on overflow pipes). This was cut in half, and each semicircle was then flattened a little to create a gentle arc with a span equal to the width of the channel, and with a maximum height of ¾” in the middle. When the grow media was replaced back onto the main hydroponic channel, the water now mainly flows through the central area where the mesh arc keeps the media off the glass. The media is still kept moist due to the media at the edges of the channels being still in contact with the flowing water, and that the water must flow through the media at the point where the water flows in from the main tank. 

*Plants*

_*Aquatic plants:*_
The aquatic plants are all rosette plants to keep maintenance and replanting to a minimum. My previous experience with stem plants required plenty of cutting back, replanting and removing of old rooted portions. Due to the size of the tank, I wanted plant maintenance to be pretty low. Constantly uprooting and replanting stem plants would also play havoc with a two-layer substrate. My initial plant list was as follows:

10 x Cryptocoryne balansae (dwarf bubble jade)
5 x Barclaya longifolia (lotus lilly)
5 x Pista stratioles (water lettuce)
5 x Limnobium spongia (amazon frogbit)
10 x Echinodorus cordifolius 
1 x Echinodorus sp. ‘Red Rubin’
25 x Echinodorus tenellus (dwarf chain sword)
25 x Echinodorus quatrocostatus (pygmy chain sword)
25 x Echinodorus paniculatus (common amazon sword)
10 x Vallisneria Gigantea (giant vallis)
3 x Echinodorus martii
25 x Cryptocoryne wendttii
5 x Cryptocoryne undulata var. Klassman
5 x Crinum calamistratum










So far these plants have had mixed results. The giant vallis has done very well, to the point of having to cull at least 50% every couple of months at least. They have reached over 9 foot in length as they grow across the surface. The E. tenellus is also doing very well, and has spread significantly. Growth from C. balansae has been pretty much none existent for the first 7 months, although just recently it has started to show new growth. The Crinums are also not doing brilliantly, but I suspect that is to do with positioning and light levels. Everything else is growing reasonably well, and is steadily filling out. 

The floating plants (lettuce and frogbit) also grow very quickly. They help reduce the intensity of light to lower levels, act as a nutrient export system and provide a home for fry. 










*Terrestrial plants:*
I’m still experimenting with the plants for the hydroponics section. Some are doing well, with quite a few having already produced flowers; others don’t like the fairly damp conditions. At present I am doing well with:

Chlorophytum comosum (spider plants)
Bergonia sp.
Dieffenbachia sp. (leopard lilly)
Nephrolepis exaltata (boston fern)
Maranta tricolour (herringbone)
Calathea sp.
Unidentified fern
Unidentified purple hanging plant
Unidentified palm

My main problem has been getting a varied supply of plants to try. Many houseplants commonly available get too big, or don’t like the moist root conditions. I am shortly to try some immersed form aquatic plants (Echinodorus species etc.)


















*Other tank furniture:*

There are only a couple of other bits of tank furniture. The main feature is a huge portion of bogwood as a centrepiece. It measures 5’ long, 2’ high and has to sit diagonally across the tank. It weights over 30kgs and was very tricky to safely position into the tank. The only other furniture are a few spawning caves. The ones that are visible are made from small half flowerpots, cut in half and siliconed together lengthways. These have then had sand siliconed to them so they are almost perfectly camouflaged against the sand background. Other spawning caves out of sight are simply spare lengths of 40mm tubing half buried in the sand.


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

_*The Fish*_

As this is a wild discus tank, the main fish are obviously a selection of wild caught discus. I have also added a variety of sympatric species exclusively from South America, as apart from some of the plants (and the fact it’s a planted tank!) I wanted it to be approximately biotopic. Here is what I have added:

*~70 x Paracheirodon axelrodi (cardinal tetra)* – these are domestically bred fish, but a classic for the discus community tank. I have added a total of 90 cardinals, but some have fallen victim to hungry discus. I now have exclusively fast cardinals left. 










*21 x Corydoras sterbai (Sterba’s cory)* – another classic for the planted discus tank. These are domestically bred fish, and were obtained at only around ¾” long. They have grown significantly in the last 6 months, and frequently spawn on the wood and glass. As yet though, all the spawns have been infertile (due to the young age I suspect). 










*2 x Corydoras adolphoi* – These are the remnants from my initial set up. I originally had more, but an infection managed to wipe out a significant number. I hope to add a few more of this species shortly, as they tend to hang around at the back of the tank and don’t mix with the sterbai. 

*1 x Ancistrus temminckii* – Adult male I have owned since I first set up my discus tank. He’s now around 6”. He’s lovely, ugly, eats anything and continually uproots my E. tennulus as he swims through them rather than around! 

*2 x Peckoltia sp. (L134) (leopard frog pleco)* – a lovely little stripy loricaridae. They are quite often out and about during lights on, especially when the discus have been fed, and they are on the hunt for leftovers. They were bought separately around 4 months apart. Sex is unknown at this point as the larger of the two is only ~2” at present. 










*2 x Ancistrus punctatus (L182) (starlight bristlenose)* – wild caught. The ‘starlight’ pattern is fairly light on these fish, making them not two dissimilar from the temminckii










*25 x Hyphessobrycon sp. ‘Robertsi’ (Robert’s tetra)* – wild caught and imported for me from Peru. A nice looking tetra, which is similar in appearance to the rosey tetra. It may in fact, belong to the species Hyphessobrycon bentosi, but has no white tips to the pectoral fins and comes from the upper reaches of the Amazon in Peru (bentosi comes from much lower down in Brazil). A full scientific classification has yet to be performed on this fish. The male robertsi turn a deep pink colour when displaying, making them look very attractive in subdued lighting. 










*3x Dicrossus filamentosus (1m2f) (checkerboard cichlid)* – wild caught dwarf cichlid. I’m not sure on the specific origins of these fish, but I believe they were shipped from Peru










*8x Apistogramma bitaeniata* – 2 wild caught, 6 F1 from wild. The F1 fish have different parents to the wild caught fish, but all were imported in the same shipment. These are an orange fin variety from Peru. 










*5x Poecilia caucana (2m3f) + numerous fry (caucana molly)* – wild caught as the by-catch from a shipment of wild guppies from Columbia. This is one of the few molly species that is often found and thrives in soft, acidic waters. I am getting clutches of fry from each of the three females every couple of weeks. Many don’t make it (tetras, discus and the hydro section I suspect), although I seem to get half a dozen from each batch of fry that do. I’ve had quite a few make t all the way through the hydroponics grow media and made it into the sump. 

*2 x Neritina natalensis (zebra nerite snail)* – An attractive stripey snail that grazes algae. I’m not sure these like the soft acid water overly, but they have survived for around 6 months so far.


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

*13x Symphsodon aequifasciatus (green discus)* – wild caught. These have been added in two batches from three different sources. Initially I had 8 large Tefe green discus imported for me by a dwarf cichlid enthusiast not too far from me. Unfortunately, after having been brought around from the rigours of importation, and shortly before I took charge of them, a malfunction of the filter system on the tank used by the importer caused the death of all of them. As a replacement, the importer had 10 small (3-4”) green discus from the Nanay region in Peru shipped over. One was DOA, and another died during the first week. All of the remaining 8 are all now doing well, and are now showing some good colour. They were almost entirely solid green when they first arrived, with blue only on the ventral fins and the front of the anal fin. It’s been great to watch these fish grow and colour up in my tank over the last couple of months, and I’m looking forward to seeing how they will end up as adults. 


















While I was waiting for the above 8 fish to settle at the importers, my local fish shop in London obtained some more wild green discus (~5”) from Peru. Whether the fish are from Peruvian rivers or Brazilian is unknown, but they were exported from Iquitos, Peru. I purchased two of these and quarantined them myself for 6 weeks. They aren’t the most colourful fish in my tank, but they seem good solid fish with a decent shape, and seem to be in very good condition overall. 


















The last batch of three wild greens were purchased from a hobbiest wild discus importer from S. Wales. These were three fish from the Tefe region, Brazil. At around 4-5”, they are showing plenty of colour, and are just beginning to develop some decent spotting on the flanks. 


















All of the wild fish feed vigorously and appear to be in good health.


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

*Water*

The tank water is made up from four parts RO water to one part CBR2 filtered water. All of this is run through a Chlorplus carbon cartridge. The above mix gives a TDS of around 120ppm, a resting pH of 7.2 and GH and KH both at around 3dH. The CO2 fertilisation used drops the pH further to a stable 6.6. Water changes are around 30% twice weekly and are largely effort free due to a few pumps and a lot of hosing. 

*Food*

The fish are fed a variety of foods, predominantly frozen foodstuffs at present, as the wild discus aren’t too keen on dry foods at present. The following are all fed:


White mosquito larvae
Black mosquito larvae
Bloodworm
Mysis
Brine shrimp
Chopped mussel
Chopped cockle
Homemade beef heart mix
Tetra prima
Tetra diskus blue
Hikari sinking wafers
Hikari algae wafers
Cucumber
Peas
Courgette
Spirulina flake 

*Atlerations / Changes*

Generally I have been very happy with the way the tank is setup and runs. Maintenance is very straightforward at present, however with hindsight there are changes that I would make. These are mainly to do with sump design and a few failed allowances. 

1.	More sump partitions. This would increase the flow through the media as the water would be more channelled around extra baffles. I’m not sure how much this would effect biological filtration, but it would make maintenance easier. I would separate the course mechanical media and floss layers, so that the latter could be cleaned / replaced without disturbing the former. 
2.	Allowing extra height in the sump. My calculations on how much extra space was required to hold the overflow water from the main tank in the event of a pump shut down didn’t take into account water that becomes trapped in the hydroponic grow media and gradually trickles down to the sump. Most of the water is captured and held by the sump, however, there is a little too much and some overflows. At present I am not sure how to fix this without major surgery to the sump design. 
3.	Removal of the upper brace bar on the front pane. My original design was to have a thicker piece of glass as the front panel, so that the front brace bar wasn’t required. Cost however, made this prohibitive at the time of construction. 

The real test of how successful this tank is will ultimately be shown by the fish themselves as they settle, grow and possibly even breed.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Ummmmm, I really don't even know what to say. Amazing tank, congradulations. Lots of work and thought and effort went into this one...and I'm sure it's a beauty to behold.

Any chance to get a more zoomed-out shot, of the tank relative to it's room? I have a feeling this is way bigger than it looks at first.


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## fezly (Jan 11, 2006)

That is one amazing tank!!!!! Yes a more zoomed out pic please - to show the tank in its full glory!!


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

thanks folks. I'll see what I can do to get a distance shot for you. Its difficult to get a decent shot of the whole thing, as the upper areas are so brightly illuminated by the halides, the contrast to the lower reaches makes one look too dark or the other look too light!


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

incidentally, this idea all started quite a while back. The beast has evolved quite a bit since then:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...ssion/8898-new-planted-discus-tank-ideas.html


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

thats pretty cool. i love those wilds. really makes me want to get more and ditch my domestic colors


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

TheOtherGeoff said:


> i love those wilds. really makes me want to get more and ditch my domestic colors


do it!  somehow wilds in planted tanks just looks way more natural. I used to have domestics, and infact I still have one domestic in there until I can rehome him. He's fine with the wilds at present though he wont be staying.


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## Hop (Mar 27, 2004)

Very Nice! Great tank!


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Great tank, great planning, great description! You did an amazing job!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

WOW thats an amazing looking tank. but i have to say that driftwood makes all the diffrence! thats the icing on the cake. wow. w0w wow, its amazing what time planning and some loose change can do,.... :hihi: and rex talkin to you 

it looks like you did a great job!

wild fish lots of plants probably lots of fry to come too! its an awsome tank!

good job!

- fish newb -


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

some more information for you, including a pics from the initial setup.

The lights were the very first thing to go up, as fitting the brackets was going to be a pain with the tank in place. so for around a month (due to one version of the tank being broken) all I had was lights up! Anyway, the tank finally arrived and was put in place, on the cabinet and on top of a 1" think layer of polystyrene wall insulation

The plain tank, big and empty:










The sump then went in, inside the cabinet. The cabinet itself has three sections that open on the front. The two at each end are regular doors, the middle section is a pillar that can be completely removed when the tank is empty (daren't try it when the tank is full :scared: )

sump:










Next thing to be done was to fit a couple of small lights to the inside of the cabinet. If you are setting up a big tank with a sump, this is invaluable, as it allows you to see what you are doing when setting up and maintaining it:










As I mentioned previously, I have the main mechanical media and bio media raised off the base of the sump by 1", and supported by a layer of egg crate. Here are the supports in place:










You can also see the UV steriliser in place, and one of the 2x 6 way independantly switchable extension leads. The tank takes three wall sockets to run, 2 for the tank equipment, and one for the lights. 

The egg crate was placed on top, making a shelf off the bottom, and the mechanical media was added:










Then the two pumps (return pump at the rear, closed loop FSB pump at the front) were positioned in their respective overflows:


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

After the pumps it was the CO2 reactor, fluidised sand bed filter and the rest of the plumbing. I learn an awful lot about solvent weld and how to use it properly during this build (mainly by getting it wrong a few times). 










The alfagrog (a chunky expanded ceramic media) was also added to the sump in two large mesh koi filter bags. This should make it far easier to remove when I have to. 

Back up at the main tank, it was time to start adding the substrate. First off though, it was laying the heating cable. As I opted for a fairly cheap soil heating cable instead of a proper aquatic one, finding cable suction cups that fit proved o be very difficult. I ended up threading fishing line through the suction cups I'd bought (but didnt fit) and tieing the cable to them (the masking tap was just temporary to hold the cable in the correct pattern): 










Once the cable had been secured, it was time for the actual substrate. First off was three bags of flourite, washed thoroughly. It forms approximately a 1" deep layer across the whole tank, but I made it thinner around the middle where the bogwood would go.


















After the substrate, I decided to put the bogwood in. This was positioned to be as deep into the flourite as possible, for maximum stability. The sand (1 1/2" layer) would be added afterwards and would also help keep the wood upright. 










With the sand in, The only thing left to do was fill it with water. This was a somewhat nerve wracking experience, as I had had mixed opinions as to whether the whole thing would simply fall through the floor. The total weight of the tank must be well over a tonne. I had placed the cabinet on a 72x30" plywood spreader board and positioned it perpendicular to 5 floor joists, against a supporting wall, but was still very nervous.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

amazing amazing amazing!
I would have liked to see another inch or two of the flourite though.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

kingborris said:


> do it!  somehow wilds in planted tanks just looks way more natural. I used to have domestics, and infact I still have one domestic in there until I can rehome him. He's fine with the wilds at present though he wont be staying.



oh i want to but there are two things holding me back.

1. wilds are hard to come by in this area. 
2. my mom really likes the domestic colors so i guess i have to keep her happy, sionce shes still letting me live at home with all this tank nonsense! haha


but i must say, your tank is definitly very very cool. :thumbsup:


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

fresh_newby said:


> amazing amazing amazing!
> I would have liked to see another inch or two of the flourite though.


thankyou! 

there were a couple of reasons I didnt add more flourite. Firstly is cost, as flourite over here is around £25 ($47) per bag!. secondly, I didnt want to loose too much depth from the tank. The tank is mainly about the fish, with plants coming second, so maintaining water volume was fairly important to me.


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## standoyo (Nov 6, 2005)

Oh wow awesome tank. Always wanted a Discus planted tank. Right now I have discus and I have plants! lol

Really awesome tank!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Great stuff and outstanding planning. Beautiful tank and Discus!! More substrate around the Echinodorus probably needed, but maybe you're OK with the extra sand and root ferts.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

*OMG!!!!*

Wow! What a thread! What a tank! What an inspiration!!!

Let me see if I got it all down...

1) Incredible technical DIY designing
2) Plant's growing out of the tank
3) Beautifully aquascaped
4) Discus compatible and discus complimentary​
Wow! This is an absolute stunner! Congratulations on this magnificent effort. And thank you for posting this! We are all in your debt for sharing this, and I cannot wait to see your posts on progress!


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## standoyo (Nov 6, 2005)

scolley said:


> *OMG!!!!*
> 
> Wow! What a thread! What a tank! What an inspiration!!!
> 
> ...


He's the King, Steve and you are the one coaster shy guy! :hihi: 
Seriously I PDF'ed both you guy's threads for an inspirational and leisurely read. Both are killer setups. Kudos to the King on doing discus and planted so well.:thumbsup: 

ps: steve-the suspense on yours is killer.


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Hey KB! Great to see you've got it all running!
How many years has it been since you said you were getting a new tank?
Looks awesome man, great progress photos too.


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

Hi Lorenceo, Its been about three years from initial concept through to where it is now. Lots of ideas, planning, doodling, quotes, scrapping ideas, more ideas as the beast has evolved. The first year was just collating all the auxilliary equipment, pumps, filters, lights etc, even before I had finalised the design. I obtained the tank back in January as you know, and added the last of the wild discus about 3 weeks ago. 

Standoyo... LOL, the only thing I am king of, is my little 1 bed flat in NW London, and thats only when my queen isnt home 

Scolley - Ive been lurking in your Kahuna thread since you first posted, quietly cursing / admiring you for being able to implement a lot of the technology I couldnt . I had wanted to setup an auto water change system, but being in rented accomodation at present, and with the nearest water inlet / drain points about 20 yds away, it just wasnt feasable. But thanks for the generous appraisal!

I still have a fair ammount of info / detail to post up, as soon as I get an oppotunity.


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## yznj99 (Nov 1, 2004)

One of the best tanks on this site, thanks for sharing it inside and out, wish I could set up something like this in the future


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

If I ever get over to London, do you mind if I come visit?  

Your documentation of this AMAZING setup is awesome. Thanks so much for sharing all your ideas - I'll know I'll be looking up this thread in the future when it comes to laying out some of my bigger projects!!! It is people like YOU who make this hobby progress by leaps and bounds!


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

yznj99: Many thanks for the complements, not so sure I agree with you given the standard of some of the aquascapers on here, but hey... thanks 

Jen: If you're ever in London, you'd be welcome to come and take a look.  There's lots of things I am please with about this tank, however, to be honest its still developing. I havent yet got the plants growing as well as I would like, and I'm still playing with the dosing levels. The E. tennulus is picking up hair algae, and some of the swords are loosing leaves to pinholes etc. Dosing is proving tricky as I feed the fish quite heavily (3 times daily at present), so the plants pick up a fair amount of their nutrients from the food. But once again, thanks for the kind words.


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

Before the tank had water in it, I needed to screen off the hydroponics section to stop fish / plants being drawn into the troughs and to stop the media escaping to the weir. I eventually tracked down some stainless stell wire mesh, with a hole size of around 4mm. This was ideal to stop both plants etc, and to keep the grow media in place. The tricky bit was finding a away to keep the sections of mesh in place. In the end i settled on sections of a triangular poster holder. These were cut to size, sanded down on the internal edges. These were then roughened with sand paper and siliconed in place. They can be seen in the following picture which was taken at a later date. It gives a good view of the media in place. I've added arrows to indicate the flow of water from the main tank, into the channels and out into the main weir. This particlur shot was taken before the curved plastic mesh was added to benieth the grow media, and as you can see, the end nearest to the inlet from the tank is very wet. Adding the plastic mesh allowed most of this water to drain more freely:










Here's a cross section of one of the channels:










Once the tank was full, the pumps were turned on. After spending an evening or two rewelding some of the plumbing to fix leaks (I told you I learnt the hard way ), the tank was left to warm up. Initially I used 3x300W heaters, plus the soil heating cable. The heaters are all kept in the sump to be kept out of sight. Th heating cable and the large volume of water is sufficient to keep the tank warm for a long period of time should the return pump from the sump fail. It would certainly be long enough for me to spot and get another pump. For day to day operation, I have reduced the heaters to 2x300W plus the cable, which is fine for keeping the tank temperature at 28-29C. I get a fair amount of heating effect from the lights, which fortunately, as its a warm water discus tank, doesnt matter. 

Initailly I ran an additional internal filter (fluval 2+) packed full of floss to help clear any sediment. Fortunately I had been very thorough with washing the sand, and had been very careful in filling the tank. As you can see from one of the earlier photos, The water was pumped into the tank with a low output pump, pumping the water onto the bogwood log. From here it gentley ran down the log to fill the tank, causing minimal disturbance to the sand. Once the tank temperature was stable, and the water had been given a chance to clear itself of the majority of the particulate matter, it was time to add the fish. 

As I mention earlier, this tank was to replace the remaining stock from my fist tank. This old tank was run using Eheim external 2226 and 2026 filters. To speed maturation of the sump filter, the old floss layer had been squeezed out into the mechanical media section of the tank to seed it with bacteria. All the remaining media (sponges, Ehfimech, Ehfisubstrat) were placed into bags made from the ends of pairs of tights (pantyhose for the US readers ). These were then placed into the sump, above the main biological alfagrog media. This meant that the water from the main tank had the flow past the new media before passing the old media, allowing any free ammonia or nitrite to presented to the bacteria colonising the new media before being exposed to the old (3 years) mature media. 

The water from the new and old tank (still with fish in) was thoroughly mixed, by a number of large water changes between the two tanks. This meant the tempuratures were exactly equal, water parameters were virtually identical (they were setup to be the same). This meant the fish could simply be transfered from one tank to the next without need for any aclimatisation. The initial stock to go over was 1 Ancistrus, 3 adult discus, 20ish cardinals, and 3 corys. As the bioload from one tank to the other was unchanged, and all the old media was still in use, it meant I experienced absolutely no visible ammonia or nitrite at all in setting this tank up. Infact throughout the process of adding fish, none has ever been detected. 

After around 2 weeks of the original fish beng in place, it was time to go shopping. The first in was a batch of 50 cardinal tetras. This may seem like a lot to add in one go, but compared to the biomass of an adult discus, cardinals are tiny. Also, the sump filter and fluidised sand bed were now begining to pick up biological function, thus providing a massive surface area for new bacteria to colonise and absorb the new load. Here is a picture of the tank with just these fish in:










As you can see, at this stage, there are no plants in the hydroponics section. In fact, there was nothing in there at all. This would be added later


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## hazeen (May 21, 2006)

wooow.. realy nice tank


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## hazeen (May 21, 2006)

what is the idea behind heating the gravel??


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

Hi hazeen.

There is actually a lot of debate as to whether gravel heaters do anything constructive at all. They were originally created with the idea that by heating the gravel, this help create a heat gradient between the water held in the substrate and the water column. This would then setup convection between the two, allowing nutrient to be passed to and from the substrate. These convection currents are supposed to increase oxygen migration to the gravela nd roots, helping both the plants and to prevent anaerobic dead patches.

Cable heaters generally form part of the older German school of planted tanks, and are still sold by companies like Dupla, JBL and Dennerle.

So, why do I use one if there's a debate as to whether they do anything? well, I bought mine cheaply from ebay right when I first started gathering equipment for the tank. It was only afterwards when I read about whether they worked or not. I decided to use it anyway, for a number of reasons. 1. it cant hurt. 2. I had one anyway 3. It provides a discrete heat source to the tank, inside the actual tank itself. all the other heaters are in the sump.


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## hazeen (May 21, 2006)

thanks for the information


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## the_noobinator (Jun 10, 2006)

your tank is spectacular. i really like your choice in schooling fishes.


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## magicmagni (Nov 7, 2003)

Cool tank. Good job documenting everthing. That sump is impressive. Do you loose much Co2 with that set-up?


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## Y0uH0 (Dec 19, 2005)

It is really awesome. Everything was so detailed,right from the DIY,to the fishes and even the plants. I really enjoyed reading your thread. The tank looks really beautiful. I am totally speechless.


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

my thread got bumped!

magicmagni - i do burn through a lot of CO2, but I suspect the hydroponics section is the main culpret here. there is very little in the way of surface disturbance, as the return from the sump is a spray bar at around 4" under the surface angled downwards by 30 deg (you can see it in the last pic on the left hand side). the sump too is pretty disturbance free, with only a mild current from the outflow of the drain pipes and the drop (around 1/4 -1/2")into the return pump wier section. The hydro section must basically act like a wet dry trickle filter, causinga lot of off gassing of CO2. I get through a 14lb cylinder in around 5 months. still, if the hydro section is the main area of CO2 loss, its probably creating a great environment for the hydro plants, as they are growing directly above this. 

YUoHO - thanks for the kind words


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

Great ideas man, really cool tank and cool fish. Love the dicrossus, and love all the "stories" behind all the fish!


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

That is an amazing set up for sure!! Nice little journey we get to go on here. 

The Discus look like they are in their element! Cant get much more natural looking. Kudos, an a job well done!roud:


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## plant_addict (Aug 14, 2006)

How did you plant the non-aquarum plants in?


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

plant_addict said:


> How did you plant the non-aquarum plants in?


they were simply washed of any soil they came in, and buried in the expanded clay hydroponic grow media in the four surrounding troughs. The flow of water from the tank gives them all the nutrients / water they need. 

The Dieffenbachia is pushing around three foot tall now, and is well above the lights at the back. I'm going to need to find a replacement pretty soon!


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## tpl*co (Nov 4, 2006)

standoyo said:


> He's the King, Steve and you are the one coaster shy guy! :hihi:
> Seriously I PDF'ed both you guy's threads for an inspirational and leisurely read. Both are killer setups. Kudos to the King on doing discus and planted so well.:thumbsup:
> 
> ps: steve-the suspense on yours is killer.


LOL, I agree, both Steve's and this tank are inspirational! roud: 

Tina


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## stuworrall (Oct 29, 2006)

just read through this and well, what a tank! any updates on it or is it plodding along nicely?


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## Derekj03 (Nov 5, 2006)

I'm sort of a fish Nube if you must, it seems to me that you have a TON of fish in that tank. Do you feel the tank is overstocked at all? Thanks -Derek


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

stuworrall: no real changes. Ive swapped out a couple of the terrestrial plants for alternatives, which are now just getting settled. no changes to fish stocks in any way. I'll post a few new pics if i can get any decent ones. 

Derekj03: personally, no i dont feel its over stocked. fully stocked yes, but not over stocked. 3 reasons for this. 1. its a big tank, with a large volume of water. 2. masses and masses of filtration, way more than needed for the ammount of fish. 3. lots of water changes. with 2x30% a week, plus a bag full of plant cuttings every 2 weeks, nutrient levels stay pretty low. 

hows this for stocking


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## CAMBYSES (Sep 22, 2006)

Matt,

you did an incredible job and your tank shows how much research and thought as well as work you put into it. you have managed to answer a question I have had for quite some time. "Is it possible to have terrestrial(sp?) plants as a decorative drop for a fully operational fish tank?" and I now know the answer is yes.

thanks for sharing and keep up the great work its beautiful!

Bob


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

kingborris said:


> stuworrall: no real changes. Ive swapped out a couple of the terrestrial plants for alternatives, which are now just getting settled. no changes to fish stocks in any way. I'll post a few new pics if i can get any decent ones.
> 
> Derekj03: personally, no i dont feel its over stocked. fully stocked yes, but not over stocked. 3 reasons for this. 1. its a big tank, with a large volume of water. 2. masses and masses of filtration, way more than needed for the ammount of fish. 3. lots of water changes. with 2x30% a week, plus a bag full of plant cuttings every 2 weeks, nutrient levels stay pretty low.
> 
> hows this for stocking


WOW!!!!!!!:eek5: 

I would say that tank is well stocked!!

That has to be a quick turn around tank. I cant believe the fish would actually survive in those conditions....


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## kingborris (Feb 25, 2004)

bastalker said:


> WOW!!!!!!!:eek5:
> 
> I would say that tank is well stocked!!
> 
> That has to be a quick turn around tank. I cant believe the fish would actually survive in those conditions....


Nope. Thats one of the grow out tanks at Stendker's discus farm in Germany. by all accounts its an awesome sight. around 1/2 a million discus on site at any time. this tank is one of many, all as highly stocked. You can be sure the food never hits the floor in there!


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

grow out tank? constant water changes keep them alive?


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## aquaman3000 (Oct 21, 2006)

Amazing! Could you post a photo with just your cold cathode moonlights on?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

thread necromancy... i always wondered about how kingborris's tank is going now


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## bwagner (Apr 18, 2007)

Nice tank, like the thought that went in behind it.

Have pics of the sump running?


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## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm speechless! roud:


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## NoObLet (Apr 23, 2007)

HOLYY.. wow that tank has soo much potential. are u gonna put anything on that wood.?

wow i cant wait to see this when it is done.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Super necro?


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

Out of all the tanks I've seen, this is by far the most impressive. In my opinion the winners of the ADA competitions don't hold a candle to it.


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## clairdl (Jan 15, 2009)

kingborris any wild discus for sale?


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

amazing setup. I however liked the photo where u are inside the tank. First time I saw somebody do that( partially or fully) after Amano or Tom Barr


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