# LED High Lighting for a 18" deep tank



## happybats (Feb 1, 2014)

Asked a question about lighting a few weeks ago but really think i should make a decision. I have a 24x18x18 tank with a Ray 2, co2 and EI dosing. I think I need to upgrade or add something more. My plants are struggling in the front and back and the overall color is washed out. I was considering either purchasing the new Ecoxotic E-Series to add with my Ray 2 or just completely replace the Ray 2 with a BML either 10k or 6300k XB. I'm leaning toward the BML but like the customization of the E-series (though my Ray 2 may still wash it out). Opinions?? Would really like to hear what you guys think!


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

The problem is that the Ray 2 has horrible spread front to back. Since your tank is 18" wide you have a couple of options:

1. Go with 2 fixtures
2. Go with a high power LED with narrow optics and raise the light up high.

If you went with BML I would do a 6300K XB with 75deg optics mounted at 24" from the substrate or 60deg optics about 28" from the substrate. That will give you enough cover front to back with a single fixture.


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## happybats (Feb 1, 2014)

Thanks for you input. Why not a 90 degree beam angle on the rim? Too much light or not enough spread?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

happybats said:


> Thanks for you input. Why not a 90 degree beam angle on the rim? Too much light or not enough spread?


Not enough spread. I have a goniometer so I can measure the exact distance based on whatever optic you would want to cover your entire tank if you want. Problem with this is that the wider the optic the more LED power required.

Also I just realized your tank dimensions would actually be perfect for a Kessil. Might want to think about going with this:

Kessil A150WE Amazon Sun
http://www.kessil.com/aquarium/Freshwater_A150.php


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## happybats (Feb 1, 2014)

What about adding a BML 6300k to my Ray 2? I don't think I like the Kessil.


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## KekoaLyons (Jun 25, 2014)

May I See A Picture Of Your Fish Tank?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

happybats said:


> What about adding a BML 6300k to my Ray 2? I don't think I like the Kessil.


That would work but the color difference would look kinda weird in the front and back of the tank.

Why don't you like the Kessil?


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## happybats (Feb 1, 2014)

Yeah but I know people often pair the 10000k with the 6300k. I'd be more worried about purchasing the E-series for the features only for them to be rendered useless with a Ray 2. About the Kissel, I feel that the price tag with the mounting legs would be more expensive than a BML and the par wouldn't be comparable. The shadows looked cool but I can tell there would be either dark corners in my tank or light splash outside my tank.

Not a great panoramic shot, just a cell phone picture... missing a few inches from top and sides.


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## ThisDarkDivide (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm currently using 2 of the Kessil A150W (E Series.. new) Amazon Sun's on my Mr.Aqua 60 gallon cube. That tank is 24x24x24.

Not sure how much your looking to spend as they are pricey. $225 each plus another $40 or so for the mounting arm.


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## happybats (Feb 1, 2014)

Yeah that's too pricey for me. If I were to spend that I'd just throw down on two bml's or something like the e-series for the cool effects. My tank is a Mr. Aqua as well, 24x18x18. I just need something hopefully within the ~$200 price range that I can pair with the Ray 2 for high light (and good colors on the reds because the Ray is so flat) or a single fixture that can light the tank in a high light range and enhance the colors better than the Ray 2.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ThisDarkDivide said:


> I'm currently using 2 of the Kessil A150W (E Series.. new) Amazon Sun's on my Mr.Aqua 60 gallon cube. That tank is 24x24x24.
> 
> Not sure how much your looking to spend as they are pricey. $225 each plus another $40 or so for the mounting arm.


2 Kessils is a ton of light on that size tank. How high are they mounted? Got any pics of the setup?


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## KekoaLyons (Jun 25, 2014)

Well it does look good  cant wait to get my cube started when i decide on a light


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## happybats (Feb 1, 2014)

So the par data for the 6300k XB "Dutch" is as follows:









So I don't understand why I still wouldn't have enough spread if I were to mount the 90 degree beam angle on the rim at the tank. At 18" inches to the substrate with the 90 degree I would get a par reading of 110 at the center, 70 in the very front and back vs. mounting it at 24 inches to the substrate for the 75 degree beam angle and getting 85 par and 60 par, respectively. Anyone care to enlighten me? :icon_sad:


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

happybats said:


> So the par data for the 6300k XB "Dutch" is as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because that spread at 90deg is very crappy at 18". A 40 PAR difference is kinda huge.

For example this is the PAR data for a Kessil A150 up to 24" wide.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1807621&postcount=51

Notice how the light it puts out is much more uniform towards the edges. That was taken in open air so add a good 15% or so to those readings for underwater. Then also the new A150WE is 15% more powerful than last gen so you end up getting quite a bit more PAR.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Not necessary to argue PAR loss of 40 between 110 and 70 .. still "fairly good" light..Between 40 and zero is another story.
Main problem now is: 
If you raise it 12" your "floor" is now at 30".. which is where you will lose a lot of PAR at the bottom..(18 plus 12)
Assuming a straight down loss of 30 PAR per 6" your directly under the light PAR is 20..........at the floor.. Certainly would not go to zero at the edges (diffraction scattering) of the floor but it is quite low..

People paying $300 for a light and not getting good carpet growth would not be happy........


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## happybats (Feb 1, 2014)

@jeffkrol so you are slightly agreeing with me? I realize there is a 40 par difference but at very least I'd still be in the high light category. If we are talking about par difference in spread it seems the best bet would be to raise 10000k XB to 24" at substrate and the center would be 115 and 90 at the front and back... leaving a difference of 25 instead.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

It all comes back to the old price vs performance dilemma.

2 x Current USA Satellite+ = $181 and each fixture is 3" deep.

That might be an acceptable compromise between $$$ and PAR and spread and color.

v3


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## happybats (Feb 1, 2014)

Thanks OVT. I've seriously considered that.. but I don't think that's enough PAR overall for how high my tank is.. that's why I've been looking at the E-series. I know that BML is coming out with a customisable rgb light but not sure if I can wait (plants are not doing well) or if it will suit my purposes.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

happybats said:


> @jeffkrol so you are slightly agreeing with me? I realize there is a 40 par difference but at very least I'd still be in the high light category. If we are talking about par difference in spread it seems the best bet would be to raise 10000k XB to 24" at substrate and the center would be 115 and 90 at the front and back... leaving a difference of 25 instead.


Guesstimating you only need to raise the 10000k 7.25" above the top to get decent coverage throughout the tank..

surface PAR would be 430-20(edge)
@ floor 115-90(edge)

90degree optics










@24x18x18 you are not even limited to 90.. 60-75 works as well (24x18x18 tank)

Just shift the chart up to have 6" = 0
24 equals 18

10000K was my "go to" spectrum till discovering "cyan"... 

LED Selections per 12" Board: (10) 5700K Cool White, (3) 660nm Deep Red, (2) 450nm Royal Blue

Adding 2 "cyan" (take out 2 5700k) in a custom configuration doesn't change PAR nor CRI "much"...

(8)5700k (2)cyan (3) 660nm deep red (2)RB


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## ThisDarkDivide (Jun 24, 2014)

gus6464 said:


> 2 Kessils is a ton of light on that size tank. How high are they mounted? Got any pics of the setup?



No photos just yet, but each light is approx 1 foot above the tank, one of each side. I've some Ludwigia Peruensis which love the attention the Kessil's are giving them.


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