# Starting a new Ultra-Line regulator build!



## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

I feel like a kid on Christmas! Packages coming in one after the other lol! 

Got the regulator, solenoid and manifold in today! The regulator is a beauty! It was still sealed in the package! 

Regulator is a Matheson Ultra-Line dual stage vcr rig. 

Opted for the clippard dv series solenoid with manifold. 

Will post more as more parts come in and I start to build!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Have you decided on a metering valve yet? What about the configuration?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

I got a chell ultra fine valve on its way however it's vcr connections so it'll take a little playing around. Not 100% what I want to do fitting wise yet. I may come out and drop at 45 for the manifold, but that may stick out too far so we'll see.

@oldpunk I'm pretty new at this so we'll see how it turns out lol. I mean it's only a couple fittings, I can handle that it's not rocket science, however these regulators might have been used for rocket science! While I have you, does the 10-32 thread on the solenoid need Teflon, or do the gaskets on the bottom do the deed? 

@alanle did you go with plain stainless vcr gaskets or copper or nickel? I'm hoping you didn't go silver haha! Also, just straight gaskets, or did you opt for the retainer type? When I'm looking at parts I see "gasket retainer" is that just the clip, or does it have a gasket in it?


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## Kensho (Oct 24, 2012)

Go man go!!! Which clipboard and manifold did you go with


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

The clippard dv series solenoid, the manifold is the 15490-5


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Get ss vcr gasket. I remember telling someone not to get the chell. Trouble trouble...... 


-Alan


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

AlanLe said:


> Get ss vcr gasket. I remember telling someone not to get the chell. Trouble trouble......
> 
> 
> -Alan


I'm up for the challenge. Super clean is not top priority. I'll be keeping this rig so if I'm happy with it that's all that matters lol. Besides I don't think it'll look all that bad. Someone needs to talk clippard into a vcr ported manifold 

Did you just do with straight up gasket or the retainer model?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Post a picture of the Chell, I thought Bettatail was the only one that played with that, I guess Alan too.

What model is it? 

I remember being told the Parker HR0 will be borderline too "fine", as in, it will take a lot of turns to go from 1 bps to 1.5 bps. Some people might not like that, but I love over-kill stuff like that. How is the Chell?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Post a picture of the Chell, I thought Bettatail was the only one that played with that, I guess Alan too.
> 
> What model is it?
> 
> I remember being told the Parker HR0 will be borderline too "fine", as in, it will take a lot of turns to go from 1 bps to 1.5 bps. Some people might not like that, but I love over-kill stuff like that. How is the Chell?


No idea yet. It's in the mail currently. It's the fine model, but it said it was for vacuum. I don't see why it wouldn't work though. If it doesn't, oh well I guess was worth a shot for me.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

The valve will work perfectly for you. It's a super low flow. Your challenge is the vcr ports. You can use vcr to npt adapters but it will be bulky. What I would do is cut the vcr port and attach a swagelok tube adapter to the stems. Problem solved.

Tony,
This is the valve. 










-Alan


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

I went with this and a set of female nuts.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Are .5 amp 12v supplies sufficient for these solenoids?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Dead2fall said:


> Are .5 amp 12v supplies sufficient for these solenoids?


Yes.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Thank you.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Hey anyone know where to get replacement relief blow out grommets for gauges? Or anyone have one laying around?

So apparently these things come in 4 flavors, 0-30psi and 0-100psi outlet with either stainless, or hastelloy parts. However mine is labeled as maximum outlet of 60psi, not the gauge mind you, the regulator body has a sticker on it that says this. Any ideas? Not that it really matters, I'm just a stickler for knowing exactly what I have. 

Also.. Good lord this is way sexier when wearing it's "little black handle" do want (drool)


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Chell metering valve came in today along with some electrical odds and ends. Most of the other post body stuff is on its way as well. 

Still trying to nail down a set of gauges and the SS 1/4" VCR x CGA-320 nipple.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Hahahah is that what the VCR port caps look like? That awesome!!! I never seen those caps before, the NPT ones are huge to compare to that.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Hahahah is that what the VCR port caps look like? That awesome!!! I never seen those caps before, the NPT ones are huge to compare to that.


The whole valve is pretty big and heavy honestly, it's like 5 inches long.

I grabbed this as a backup in case I don't like it.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Hey does the 10-32 on the bottom of the clippard solenoid need Teflon before screwing it into the manifold?

Just finger tight as well im guessing?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Dead2fall said:


> Hey does the 10-32 on the bottom of the clippard solenoid need Teflon before screwing it into the manifold?
> 
> Just finger tight as well im guessing?


Nope, it seals with the o-ring, finger tight is good. How does the DV look on the manifold? And I hear good things about those 21/22 ******'s, it's too bad they are discontinue, one of the best looking metering valve by far.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Nope, it seals with the o-ring, finger tight is good. How does the DV look on the manifold? And I hear good things about those 21/22 ******'s, it's too bad they are discontinue, one of the best looking metering valve by far.


The DV looks good on the manifold, however it's quite a bit longer than the mouse. I just hate the yellow cap. 

The vcr face seal gaskets came in today! They must have been out of the regular kind that I ordered because they sent the retainer clip style, bonus! Also got the ****** valve in today, it'll need ferrules and nuts though. 

Do the swagelok tube to npt adapters only work with swagelok tube fittings, or do they work with any compression fitting? Also if they only fit swagelok style fittings, can I use the swagelok style ferrules and nut on the ****** valve?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

I love them 10/32', finger tight and it's ready to go. 

You can remove the clippard mouse cap, it's a visual aid more than anything, like how white is for oxygen, green is custom etc.
You can also unscrew the ring and rotate the body to arrange the direction of the spade terminals. ***Don't unscrew it all the way because the entire solenoid will fall apart *** 

The swagelok tube fitting should work with other fittings, the patent ran out and a whole bunch of companies have their own compatible fittings. Like Parker's A-Lok, Hoke's Gyrolok.... etc etc

I don't know about the npt adapters, I never used VCR fittings before. I think you might be the 3rd or 4th person to play with VCR face seals.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I love them 10/32', finger tight and it's ready to go.
> 
> You can remove the clippard mouse cap, it's a visual aid more than anything, like how white is for oxygen, green is custom etc.
> You can also unscrew the ring and rotate the body to arrange the direction of the spade terminals. ***Don't unscrew it all the way because the entire solenoid will fall apart ***
> ...


Ha I should've taken everyone's advice and steered clear of it lol. 

I'm too deep into it money wise to be able to sell it and turn a decent profit, but that's okay I'll just sell the Matheson I'm using now instead. 

I've found a brand new ametek low side gauge for pretty cheap considering it's vcr, but I have no idea what the face looks like lol. It was still in the bag and the sticker is blocking my view. Once it gets here the hunt is on for the high side! 

I can't find the vcr cga 320 nipple anywhere. I'm going to have to go with an npt adapter and normal nipple. Anyone know of/have any really short stainless nipples? I'd prefer shorter than 2" if possible.

Totally unrelated, but I wonder if @neilshieh still has those chrome sets.. I'm already eyeing up a new build :/


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AlanLe knows where to get the nipple. Send him a pm.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

oldpunk78 said:


> AlanLe knows where to get the nipple. Send him a pm.


We've discussed it, they must have only had a limited amount when he got his. I've even searched under the hy-lok ZCR which is their version of vcr and no hits. Which reminds me, I meant to call them.

I find it ridiculous that these companies don't want my money. They won't deal with me unless I'm a business and open an account lol.

@FlyingHellFish here's shots of the DV on the manifold ready to go as soon as the fittings get here!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

E&S technologies has them. It's like 56 bucks though. They will sell just one.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

oldpunk78 said:


> E&S technologies has them. It's like 56 bucks though. They will sell just one.


@oldpunk I'm so in love with you right now.

I forget why I skipped over them. I guess I should've left no stone unturned. Now all I need to find Is a matching high side gauge and I'm set!


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

I found a pair of matching vcr gauges for you. The seller was selling it in a lot of 3. I told him to sell 2 (100 psi and 3000 psi). Check your pm. By the way i negotiated the price for you too.


-Alan


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

AlanLe said:


> I found a pair of matching vcr gauges for you. The seller was selling it in a lot of 3. I told him to sell 2 (100 psi and 3000 psi). Check your pm. By the way i negotiated the price for you too.
> 
> 
> -Alan


Thanks! I snatched it right up! The one plastic looks funny but I have another anyway. Just have to wait for this all to trickle in now and I'm ready to build! Pumped!


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Hey Dead2fall, I like what you did with the DV, is that shrink wrap and a braided wire? Check this out - 










I stumped on the wonderful world of high end audio equipments, where wires cost the same as regulators. Oh and forgot to add, you guys doing the VCR builds, why not go full panel mount? You can hook up two Co2 cylinders connected to a "protocol station" and hook that up with your VCR. No adapters, the option of having multiple cylinders and a crazy set up that rivals medical labs. 

Here the 212' that came with the Protocol station, 


















There a panel mount missing from the pictures, it's just a metal sheet of stainless steel that hooks up to that manifold. The retail cost is high, but you can get these w/ regulators. It's sort like an added bonus you can sell, apart from the manual on/off that fetches a nice price too.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Hey Dead2fall, I like what you did with the DV, is that shrink wrap and a braided wire? Check this out -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like that wire! 

Mine is just braided wire sheathing I had laying around and heat shrink to hold the ends. I took the one in the pics apart, didn't like the zip ties. 

As for panel mounting:

A. I don't have the space. 
B. My wife would kill me lol. 

But I do like the idea.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Gauges came in today, thanks again Alan! The inlet nipple should also be here today once ups gets here, thanks again oldpunk! Now I'm just waiting on two silly 1/8npt x 1/4 tube elbows that are taking their sweet time getting here and I can finish!


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Just... Need... Two... Elbows... Can't... Take... It!










I have to laugh.. All of this stuff is engineered for ultra high purity applications as I'm sitting here putting it together in my garage, with mechanics tools and a cigarette hanging out of my mouth haha.


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## charlie 1 (Oct 22, 2006)

Looking good, this is going to be one nice build.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

That's gonna be a big ol bastard. Looks cool though. Ya... with exception of the solenoid that whole thing was designed to be put together in a clean room. You should at least put on a lab coat or something.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

I'm excited to hear how the chell performs. By the way, what the scissor for?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Tape?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

FlyingHellFish said:


> I'm excited to hear how the chell performs. By the way, what the scissor for?





oldpunk78 said:


> Tape?


Cutting open part bags lol. Hey at least I laid down a towel first. That's about as "clean room" as the garage gets!

The chell valve is just monstrous. I kind of like it, but I'm not 100% on using it yet. The VCR tube adapters won't slide fully into the tube side of other fittings either judging by the look of them. There will be an extra inch of tube or so.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

If you use a tube x mnpt elbow, it will look like this. I'm thinking of cutting the small gland of the vcr tube x 1/4 tube adapter. The inner tube looks like 3/8.










-Alan


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

AlanLe said:


> If you use a tube x mnpt elbow, it will look like this. I'm thinking of cutting the small gland of the vcr tube x 1/4 tube adapter. The inner tube looks like 3/8.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The chell valve is just welded on swagelok glands for the vcr connections, and the tubing measured .346 on the calipers. I have yet to put the calipers on the tube x vcr adapters, but I'm betting it's standard.

I see you picked up one or two of those as well didn't you haha! If I'm assuming right, were they in good shape?

You oughta pull that pretty little kalrez stem s-series off that rig under the table for that bad boy on top of the desk


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Dead2fall said:


> The chell valve is just welded on swagelok glands for the vcr connections, and the tubing measured .346 on the calipers. I have yet to put the calipers on the tube x vcr adapters, but I'm betting it's standard.
> 
> I see you picked up one or two of those as well didn't you haha! If I'm assuming right, were they in good shape?
> 
> You oughta pull that pretty little kalrez stem s-series off that rig under the table for that bad boy on top of the desk



You see me riding?










-Alan


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

AlanLe said:


> You see me riding?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha! So they're in good shape then? I grabbed one myself.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

If that works, I'm so going to do a VCR build! How hard is it to weld smaller connections?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

FlyingHellFish said:


> If that works, I'm so going to do a VCR build! How hard is it to weld smaller connections?


You need to be really good and have the proper equipment to weld those small stainless tubes. All of what you see is done by computer controlled machines.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm pretty sure swagelok makes the vcr gland tubing an oddball size so people can't just cut off the gland head and use a tube fitting on it.

When I said the glands on the chell were welded on swagelok parts I didn't mean a hack job. Chell must order the glands from swagelok to use on their valves.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Well someone sent me the wrong part so just picture a vcr x 1/4 tube fitting on the output, but here it is!


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

NEXT!


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## charlie 1 (Oct 22, 2006)

Dead2fall said:


> Well someone sent me the wrong part so just picture a vcr x 1/4 tube fitting on the output, but here it is!


Holy cow! that chell with adaptors is looonng


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

What are you going to build with the 3810? 


-Alan


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

AlanLe said:


> What are you going to build with the 3810?
> 
> 
> -Alan


I'm going to convert it all to vcr!

Lol I could too! The "wrong part" was actually a 1/4mnpt x fvcr instead of the vcr x 1/4 tube fitting that I ordered. 

For the 3810 I'll be serving a clippard mouse with manifold and a ****** 22.

I'm actually considering taking the chell valve off of the ultra. I don't think I like it now that it's all together. I'm pissed.. I forgot to bid on 22 swagelok M series valves and all kinds of fittings today. Sold for 150.[emoji12]


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Man.. What did you guys do to me...

The Matheson is all but finished, just waiting on the cga inlet to come in. 
















I've already started another :O anyone know what cga that is? Same format as 320 but much bigger.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

330 I think


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## charlie 1 (Oct 22, 2006)

Dead2fall said:


> Man.. What did you guys do to me...


:hihi::hihi:


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

I can't stop. 
Another ultra line


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Chell post body v2.0. Still a little big, but I'm much happier with this configuration.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Dead2fall said:


> Chell post body v2.0. Still a little big, but I'm much happier with this configuration.



I thought you were kidding about this setup. Putting the solenoid at the end will shorten the life of your needle valve. Needle valves are not designed to stop the gas flow or act as a stop valve. With this design, the output pressure will remain inside the needle valve when the solenoid is inactive. I usually optimize the valve to 1bps to prevent the user from closing it all the way. 


-Alan


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

AlanLe said:


> I thought you were kidding about this setup. Putting the solenoid at the end will shorten the life of your needle valve. Needle valves are not designed to stop the gas flow or act as a stop valve. With this design, the output pressure will remain inside the needle valve when the solenoid is inactive. I usually optimize the valve to 1bps to prevent the user from closing it all the way.
> 
> 
> -Alan


I won't be closing it or using it to stop flow. I'll set it to where I want it and let the solenoid control on/off. 

People run needle valves with no solenoid. It's pretty much the same thing no? Yes it'll be under constant working pressure. But wouldn't constant normal pressure be less wear and tear than going from next to no residual line pressure, then being jolted with working pressure once the solenoid opens?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Do we know how well that chell valve works yet?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

It was brand new, sealed in bag. 

Edit: I misread what you said, I'm waiting on gauges to come then I'll be testing it. 

The only issue I foresee is slight rush of stored gas when the solenoid opens. Shouldn't be all that much.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

When the solenoid is inactive, the flow will stop and the pressure/gas will be trapped inside the components that are attached before it. A system without a solenoid are meant to operate 24/7 or it often comes with a manual stop valve.


-Alan


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

The Chell valve, VCR Ultra Line, new Matheson..... you're one brave custom builder Dead2fall. 

That Matheson looking real good, I like that 45 degree fitting, it levels everything out. And I'm almost positive Matheson is changing their regulator line. The 3120, 3810 on their site are longer-barstock bodies. If Matheson falls under the Harris group, who else does Harris owns?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

AlanLe said:


> When the solenoid is inactive, the flow will stop and the pressure/gas will be trapped inside the components that are attached before it. A system without a solenoid are meant to operate 24/7 or it often comes with a manual stop valve.
> 
> 
> -Alan


It's rated for like 260psi it should be able to handle the working pressure no? I mean what's in the valve should equalize out to whatever my working pressure is shouldn't it?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Finished the Matheson ultra line today! Currently marinating it to check for any pressure loss due to leaks. Don't feel like making a soapy water mess so I'll just leave it overnight. Played around with it some and it's like a hair trigger. I think I'm going to love it! Hey do you guys get nylon ferrules for the airline, or just use the metal ones?















Finished the Matheson 3813 as well, I'm happy with it!


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## Kindafishy (Jan 14, 2015)

Looks good.

Which metering valve is on the Matheson?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

So I'm afraid to close it anymore, but I can get this chell valve down to one bubble per minute @ 60 psi. It was set to 60 psi for testing purposes, that's not my usual working pressure. I didn't count how many full turns it was to get to 3 bubbles per second, but I had to turn it quite a bit. Have to say I'm happy with it!


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## Kindafishy (Jan 14, 2015)

I meant, which valve is on the 3813? Is that a Chell also?


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Kindafishy said:


> I meant, which valve is on the 3813? Is that a Chell also?


That's a ****** 22 series.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Dead2fall said:


> Well someone sent me the wrong part so just picture a vcr x 1/4 tube fitting on the output, but here it is!


And I thought my elbow for my Hoke 1666G2YA was long.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Joshism said:


> And I thought my elbow for my Hoke 1666G2YA was long.


Really no getting around it. It's not so much the elbow but the valve itself. The chell valve is HUGE especially in vcr. I changed the way this post body was put together anyhow.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

*Let me in on the secret*


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Joshism said:


>


Haha I have another one sitting in the garage too... Pretty sure I have a post body and cga nipple for it, just have to get a 320nut. Problem is, I build them then never do anything with them lol.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Because they're all in Dead2Fall and Alanle's garages.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Joshism said:


> Because they're all in Dead2Fall and Alanle's garages.


Pfft I know where there's a cheap one right now!


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Dead2fall said:


> Pfft I know where there's a cheap one right now!




Incase you're building one with female vcr ports. Here's how you get around without using vcr gauges and eliminate the extension on the cga320 inlet.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

AlanLe said:


> Incase you're building one with female vcr ports. Here's how you get around without using vcr gauges and eliminate the extension on the cga320 inlet.


What is it?


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Female NPT X male VCR adapter. I was thinking about doing that, but thought it might look funny, but it looks better than the long VCR gauges.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Dead2fall said:


> What is it?




It's the Parker Ir6000.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Joshism said:


> Female NPT X male VCR adapter. I was thinking about doing that, but thought it might look funny, but it looks better than the long VCR gauges.




Yeah Your only option is using vcr gauges or adapter.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

I actually like the long vcr gauges :/

Sent from my HTC331ZLVW using Tapatalk


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

*gland*



AlanLe said:


> If you use a tube x mnpt elbow, it will look like this. I'm thinking of cutting the small gland of the vcr tube x 1/4 tube adapter. The inner tube looks like 3/8.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey guys, I just got one of these male VCR Matheson ultralines, too. There's gotta be a shorter gland than the one in this picture. Mine is 1/4" male VCR. Thinking about the nut and the SS-4-VCR-3 gland. If that don't work, I'll just go with the double female VCR union SS-4-VCR-6-DF.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Joshism said:


> Hey guys, I just got one of these male VCR Matheson ultralines, too. There's gotta be a shorter gland than the one in this picture. Mine is 1/4" male VCR. Thinking about the nut and the SS-4-VCR-3 gland. If that don't work, I'll just go with the double female VCR union SS-4-VCR-6-DF.




You can custom order anything from Swagelok but prepare to pay an arm and leg.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

I just ordered a truelok short gland, so hopefully it'll work, because I have a few male VCR regulators. It's only 0.60" long.

Truelok g-s-4-0.600

Item # G-S-4-0.600, Truelok® G-S Short Gland On Circle Valve Technologies Inc.


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