# Eco-Complete "black" vs. Activ-Flora "black"



## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

I've used eco-complete and the growth with them sucks, they don't provide much nutrients it seems. I would do a dirt substrate which in my opinion looks even more natural.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Econde (Oct 13, 2015)

If you want something closer to sand, why not get some Black diamond blasting sand? get the medium grit. By far the most economical substrate. I believe all the "Eco-Complete Black" are roughly the same size. Eco-Complete.

I have used Eco complete and it is somewhat of a pain to plant with.


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

+1 to eco complete sucks

i have never heard of eco complete black... regular eco complete is already black so...? IMO it is a total farce that eco complete claims to contain an abundance of nutrients. this is its only selling point and it is arguably fiction. you will get comparable if not better results with regular inert substrate.

here is basically how this pans out...

- user posts on forum about eco complete because they do not want to spend the $$$ on aquasoil and do not trust inert substrates / want the best for their plants. seems to fit the bill
- everyone recommends black diamond
- user buys eco complete anyways convincing themselves that it is superior because it is marketed for this type of thing
- over time user gets frustrated because their plants will not stay down very easily. it is difficult to impossible to plant anything with less than 1" of stem to push into the ground. planting smaller foreground plants like HC / monte carlo or plants with smaller stems (blyxa) is hell / nearly impossible. surface of substrate layer looks like aquarium gravel because the large grains have risen to the top. realizes that they have to dose lots of ferts anyways / eco complete is not really providing root feeders with nutrients like dirt or something like aquasoil do.
- user eventually re-does tank
- everyone recommends black diamond again
- user tries black diamond this time and results are no better or worse than eco complete. plants actually stay down when you plant them, no larger grains in the way, user has saved decent amount of $$$
- user starts to recommend black diamond to everyone on forum


Generally you should use something good like ADA aquasoil for best results. this is expensive though. if you are not willing to do that and want a black substrate just get black diamond. if you really want nutrients and benefits somewhat similar to aquasoil just use dirt capped with black diamond

when people say eco complete is a pain to plant in... THEY ARE NOT KIDDING. plants like blyxa are IMPOSSIBLE to get to stay down in eco complete. larger stem plants that are very buoyant simply are not held down unless you can shove a few inches of the stem under substrate. if you are planning on trimming a lot, rescaping, moving plants around, etc you WILL get annoyed. black diamond is heavy af and consistent so things stay down very easily. huge difference


----------



## irishspy (Oct 22, 2007)

BROMLaar said:


> I've used eco-complete and the growth with them sucks, they don't provide much nutrients it seems.


That's interesting. I use eco-complete and my e. tennellus has grown like a little weed. Maybe it's better with root feeders?


----------



## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

irishspy said:


> That's interesting. I use eco-complete and my e. tennellus has grown like a little weed. Maybe it's better with root feeders?




Does tennellus get a lot of its nutrients form the substrate or the water? If it's water then that explains it.

I use ADA aqua soil and I love it, people have used the same aqua soil for years to grow plants because of how much nutrients is in that stuff and also having a nutrient rich substrate is kind of like a fail safe if you forget to dose or something then your plants still have a source of nutrients.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ricktfoster (Feb 15, 2017)

klibs said:


> +1 to eco complete sucks
> 
> i have never heard of eco complete black... regular eco complete is already black so...? IMO it is a total farce that eco complete claims to contain an abundance of nutrients. this is its only selling point and it is arguably fiction. you will get comparable if not better results with regular inert substrate.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the response... you make valid point. I would do the ADA but I just can't afford it for a 75. Plus I'm not too sure about it do to it lowing the PH. Do you know anything about the Activ-Flora? I was considering that route.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## York1 (Dec 18, 2014)

I had eco complete in both of my 75s and ended up hating it.I switched to black diamond blasting sand and love it. It looks great and makes planting so much easier. I use root tabs and PPS pro fertz in the high light/high tech 75 and everything grows like a weed. The other 75 is medium light and low tech. The vals,crypts and java ferns grow slow but steady.


----------



## sharkbunnie (Oct 22, 2015)

I have activ-flora black in 1 tank and black petco sand in another. I honestly feel like they are about the same. The active-flora is kinda like big sand. It is smaller than ada type soils and maybe 3 to 5 times bigger than sand (pretty small grain size). What I personally like about activ-flora is that it glitters to some degree when the light hits it's edge and it is black as 3 black things. I think it has a reasonable CEC but I use root tabs so that isn't a big concern for me. Both the sand and activ-flora are easy to work with and plant in. I have never used any ada type soils, so I can't make any comparisons. If you decide to go the inert route, I would be surprised to hear you hated either activ-flor or sand. Here's a pic of the active-flora tank. Sorry it is not a very good one, but I hope it helps.


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

i do not have experience with activ flora but cannot see how it is special in any way... seems similar to eco complete in the sense that it simply makes claims to 'help plants' in some unknown way when really these benefits are marginal at best. bottom line is that unless you can definitively say that the substrate provides nutrients inherently and will provide superior results over time it is not going to be any better than something else inert (like black diamond or other cheap options) and just cost you more.

eco for sure has DISADVANTAGES that are well known by many who have used it which makes it a no-brainer to avoid imo. it's not like your plants will suffer in it.. it just sucks to work in when planting new plants and managing your tank in general. the stuff practically floats. enough to be a dealbreaker imo


----------



## sharkbunnie (Oct 22, 2015)

I have to agree with klibs on the activ-flora. I didn't put much stock in what the company was saying about nutrients and all. I treat it as an inert substrate. I chose it purely on aesthetics. There are also many many cheaper options that can accomplish the goal, especially considering tank size. If you feel like looking into it further here's a link to a super long thread about it with some good pics that show the eco complete and activ-flora side by side. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/29-substrate/526105-substrate-holy-grail.html


----------



## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

The OP was about comparing Ecocomplete and Activflora, but the companies that package these products lie to and deceive their customers to get them to buy the products. Fortunately, I don't like working with either so that makes it easier to boycott them! Here's the 3 being discussed here as I see them.

EcoComplete-inert, low CEC, no nutrients provided to plants, difficult to plant in, relatively expensive.

ActivFlora-inert, low CEC, no nutrients provided to plants, difficult to plant in, relatively expensive.

Black Diamond Blasting sand, inert, no CEC no nutrients provided to plants, easy to plant in, cheap.


The decision should come down to appearance and that's completely subjective, the rest is a no brainer.


----------



## ricktfoster (Feb 15, 2017)

Kubla said:


> The OP was about comparing Ecocomplete and Activflora, but the companies that package these products lie to and deceive their customers to get them to buy the products. Fortunately, I don't like working with either so that makes it easier to boycott them! Here's the 3 being discussed here as I see them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What's your take on Seachem Flourite Black Sand?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

ricktfoster said:


> What's your take on Seachem Flourite Black Sand?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


IMO you'd be better off rolling with Blasting sand. All these products you've mentioned have no nutrients available to plants in them. If they do they're so tightly bonded to the material they aren't even useful. The only benefit to these are their ability to soak up and store frets, which if you're dosing every day doesn't matter. Unless you're going for a soil based substrate, do yourself a favor and save some money. If you want black then get blasting grit and for natural color get pool filter sand.


----------



## ricktfoster (Feb 15, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> IMO you'd be better off rolling with Blasting sand. All these products you've mentioned have no nutrients available to plants in them. If they do they're so tightly bonded to the material they aren't even useful. The only benefit to these are their ability to soak up and store frets, which if you're dosing every day doesn't matter. Unless you're going for a soil based substrate, do yourself a favor and save some money. If you want black then get blasting grit and for natural color get pool filter sand.




Thanks. I am leaning toward using this. My only thing is I'm going for more of a natural look. I'll show a picture down below. The only thing I found was Flourite Sand.. which is like a dark brown or dirt color. unfortunately is hard to find and is expensive. But if I go the route of Diamond Sand is there anything I have to do before I add it? Can I just throw it in? And do they have different grain sizes?

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

I mixed Ecocomplete, Activfloral, Flourite Black and Floramax in a 90gal, because I wanted varied grain size and what I noticed is that the Eco and Floramax are basically ground up lava rock and the Flourite and Activflora are shinny, much smaller and not as round. BTW, same ingredients in both Flourite black and Activflora.

The Activeflora does seem not to settle as the grains are more angular than round. It is pitch black. Plants do come loose but then again the 4" "dwarf pleco" has more to do with that then the substrate.


----------



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

ricktfoster said:


> Thanks. I am leaning toward using this. My only thing is I'm going for more of a natural look. I'll show a picture down below. The only thing I found was Flourite Sand.. which is like a dark brown or dirt color. unfortunately is hard to find and is expensive. But if I go the route of Diamond Sand is there anything I have to do before I add it? Can I just throw it in? And do they have different grain sizes?
> 
> View attachment 722754
> 
> ...


You just need to rinse it, that's all. If you want more natural than you may be better off with pool filter sand which is beige, where blasting grit is black. Both are super cheap and inert.

Bump: oh, and grain size is pretty uniform


----------



## kwroberto (Jul 27, 2012)

I have a tank with Seachem regular flourite and love it plants grows like a weed, I wanted something more natural so I had the same issue as you, which one. I ended up using black diamond blasting sand and mixed it with 2 bags of the active flora. It was perfect, but just a warning u will see all the detritus that builds up, black substrate is known for that, the regular florite won't have that problem 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## X45 (Dec 20, 2016)

The blasting sand comes in different sizes. Get the medium/course, not the fine. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

irishspy said:


> That's interesting. I use eco-complete and my e. tennellus has grown like a little weed. Maybe it's better with root feeders?


I think the point is not that eco-complete can't grow healthy plants, but rather that it does not do a _better_ job than inert substrates, so why waste the money?



ricktfoster said:


> Thanks. I am leaning toward using this. My only thing is I'm going for more of a natural look.


As has been noted, pool filter sand is black diamond for people who prefer a more natural look.

If you want something in a different color, you might have to splurge for the fluorite sand. As I noted above, I don't think anyone here is saying that fluorite can't grow great looking plants, just that it's not worth the added cost. But if you have an aesthetic reason for choosing fluorite, then by all means!


----------



## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

I have flourite in my tank. A serious amount of flourite. 92g corner tank with about 2" in the front sloping to 6" in the back. I changed stuff around the other day and put in a bunch of new plants. Then the next day I replanted the ones that floated loose. I've been just about 1 1/2 weeks replanting loose stuff at least daily. I'm seriously considering changing it all out to Black Diamond.


----------



## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

I have set up several tanks with eco-complete.The main thing I've noticed with it,is I always get an algae outbreak with it,and it never starts performing until it gets mulm built up in it.Oh yeah,and the "enhanced root symbionts" (detritus worms) that come crawling up the glass. 

I've got a 20 gallon with new eco,and a 24/7 light,and a 55 with inert aquarium gravel with mulm from a ugf built up in it.I put plants form the same package,in both tanks,an they do much better in the old inert gravel than in the eco.I know it isn't scientific or exact,but that tells me a lot.It took almost a year for my 45 with eco to start growing plants.

I have a 75 I want to set up,and ADa aquasoil is probably pretty good stuff.but for the price of enough to cover that,I could have 2 dumptruck loads (20 yards) of topsoil delivered to my house.


----------



## pirasha (Nov 3, 2012)

ricktfoster said:


> Thanks. I am leaning toward using this. My only thing is I'm going for more of a natural look. I'll show a picture down below. The only thing I found was Flourite Sand.. which is like a dark brown or dirt color. unfortunately is hard to find and is expensive. But if I go the route of Diamond Sand is there anything I have to do before I add it? Can I just throw it in? And do they have different grain sizes?
> 
> View attachment 722754
> 
> ...


I have this Flourite sand and HOLY CRAP IS IT FINE. It looks (and acts) like that fine silt you kick up if you're walking in a stream or pond, it's really very difficult to see the different particles because they are so fine. It does actually stay put in the tank after a bit but any disturbance will kick it up. Not badly, you're just going to create a dust cloud for a few minutes, but if you're thinking about getting Cories or other bottom dwelling fish (shrimp probably wouldn't bother it too much) I'd stay away.

I've actually mixed this and eco complete (had some from a previous tank) and love the different grain textures/colors together. 

Here's a close up of the mix substrate in my tank to give you an idea, the big stuff is the eco, the general brown is the sand:


----------



## ricktfoster (Feb 15, 2017)

*Eco-Complete &quot;black&quot; vs. Activ-Flora &quot;black&quot;*



pirasha said:


> I have this Flourite sand and HOLY CRAP IS IT FINE. It looks (and acts) like that fine silt you kick up if you're walking in a stream or pond, it's really very difficult to see the different particles because they are so fine. It does actually stay put in the tank after a bit but any disturbance will kick it up. Not badly, you're just going to create a dust cloud for a few minutes, but if you're thinking about getting Cories or other bottom dwelling fish (shrimp probably wouldn't bother it too much) I'd stay away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Does the sand though look like the picture I posted? With out the eco mix I mean. I was only about to find this stuff online and I'd hate to order it and be stuck with it. 

I'm trying to go for this look/color.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TFC (Jan 27, 2017)

Wow, interesting convo..... Why hasn't anyone suggested a dirt tank capped with sand? Also, I use miracle grow time released ferts UNDER your dirt... Personally with such a large tank I would think this would be the most economical way to go. 
Personally I use ADU aquasoil with the ferts under, seems to help with macro nutrients. But this is for my small tanks. 
Good Luck
Xoxo


----------



## pirasha (Nov 3, 2012)

ricktfoster said:


> Does the sand though look like the picture I posted? With out the eco mix I mean. I was only about to find this stuff online and I'd hate to order it and be stuck with it.
> 
> I'm trying to go for this look/color.
> View attachment 724210
> ...


hmm I'd say it's probably a little finer than that but I can't say for sure. If you can wait a few hours until I get home from work I'll play with some I've got left over at home and post a bunch of pics for you. Just to make sure that's what you're looking for  

I know choosing a substrate is so much more difficult than it should be.


----------



## ricktfoster (Feb 15, 2017)

pirasha said:


> hmm I'd say it's probably a little finer than that but I can't say for sure. If you can wait a few hours until I get home from work I'll play with some I've got left over at home and post a bunch of pics for you. Just to make sure that's what you're looking for
> 
> 
> 
> I know choosing a substrate is so much more difficult than it should be.




Haha yes it is! Never thought that'd it would be this difficult. Doesn't help that I'm wishy washy either. But thank you I would appreciate that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pirasha (Nov 3, 2012)

My bad, sorry for the late response, here's some pics for you. This first pic is dry on white paper, the second is in water, the third is with the substrate disturbed a bit to get a better repersentation of the different colors and textures ( the silt will be taken care of by your filter, it only lays on surfaces like that when you first use it and the water has no current....just like most substrates)

Hopefully this helps


----------



## ricktfoster (Feb 15, 2017)

*Eco-Complete &quot;black&quot; vs. Activ-Flora &quot;black&quot;*



pirasha said:


> My bad, sorry for the late response, here's some pics for you. This first pic is dry on white paper, the second is in water, the third is with the substrate disturbed a bit to get a better repersentation of the different colors and textures ( the silt will be taken care of by your filter, it only lays on surfaces like that when you first use it and the water has no current....just like most substrates)
> 
> Hopefully this helps




Thanks again for taking the time to do this. I guess the only question I have now is when the silt is gone will the substrate look brown like the first picture where it's dry on the white paper?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ricktfoster (Feb 15, 2017)

Bump


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pirasha (Nov 3, 2012)

ricktfoster said:


> Bump
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Apologies.

it looks brown with specs of red and black. I should note that the grains are not uniform; they are different sizes, shapesm and colors...it's more natural looking IMO but if you're looking for a very uniform substrate your best bet would be sand.


----------

