# Echinodorus kleiner bar



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

so i got the plant yesterday.

i'm planning to keep it in a 20 gallon tank with 20 watts (height of the tank is 35 cm). the plant will be directly under the lighting. no co2.

ho am i doing?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think it will outgrow the tank (may take a while though?), and it also tends to do well with root tabs. Higher lighting would probably bring out more red, but I think it will grow just fine.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

thanks Laura. it's not a show tank, just to keep the plant temporarily


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

It should live - the tank being not so high. It won't outgrow the tank if it is 'Kleiner Bär' from Europe & not the one sold under that name in the States.


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## susankat (Oct 14, 2007)

I have a kleiner bar sword that is 22 inchs high. Here is a poor pic of it as I can't seem to get a good one of it.


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

Susankat: that doesn't seem to be a 'Kleiner Bär', IMHO. Hardly a Kleiner = smaller...


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> It won't outgrow the tank if it is 'Kleiner Bär' from Europe & not the one sold under that name in the States.


Not true, Daniel!

Unless it has something to do with the water here in the States, my European 'Kleiner Bär' grew to the same state as its American counterpart!


Mike


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

susankat said:


> I have a kleiner bar sword that is 22 inchs high. Here is a poor pic of it as I can't seem to get a good one of it.





Daniel*Swords said:


> Susankat: that doesn't seem to be a 'Kleiner Bär', IMHO. Hardly a Kleiner = smaller...


Yeah, but Bär = Bear, so maybe not that small.  

Susankat's looks a bit like E. 'Rubin' that I used to adore but unfortunately outgrew my 100gal tank.

I got some E. 'Kleiner Bär' from Baylees and so far they are staying around 10", hopefully it stays that way, although with Swords, you never know when they kick into overdrive.


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## susankat (Oct 14, 2007)

Well it started out looking like this one. Maybe its my water and such.


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## stewarttoys (Oct 22, 2006)

I have seen kleiner's get to 36 inches in the right conditions. here is a link to a thread with a pic of a big one, 

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...-rare-sword-plant-echindorus-africanus-2.html

From what I have seen they are not small swords, that is a myth


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

here's the plant :









they look so tiny compared to the link


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

Momotaro said:


> my European 'Kleiner Bär' grew to the same state as its American counterpart!


Thank you, Mike. I stand corrected. 

I guess here in Europe we still grow our plants under less amounts of light & nutrients than you do over the pond, generally speaking. Or maybe there is something to the adage telling 'everything is bigger in America'! My 'Kleiner Bärs' have stayed under 10''. Poor malnurished plants.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The big leaves on mine were about 24", I've trimmed those and so now it's about 18" The leaves are really broad, so shading is actually more of a problem IME than height.

ikuzo- I'm not sure that yours are 'kleiner bars' - how long have you had them, and which leaves on your plants are the newer leaves? Perhaps that's emersed growth, but the red leaves look too skinny to me, and they seem to be missing the distinctive veining. Or maybe its yet a different cultivar?

This is what mine look like when they're the same size as yours:


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

hmm mine looks like a rubin isn't it? 
the leaves do looks a bit longer and skinnier than yours. the grean leaves are emersed growth. the red ones are submerged leaves. i only got this plant about 3 days ago. did i got scammed?


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> I guess here in Europe we still grow our plants under less amounts of light & nutrients than you do over the pond, generally speaking. Or maybe there is something to the adage telling 'everything is bigger in America'! My 'Kleiner Bärs' have stayed under 10''. Poor malnurished plants.


:hihi: 

Who knows, Daniel! Who knows!

Mike


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

ikuzo said:


> hmm mine looks like a rubin isn't it?
> the leaves do looks a bit longer and skinnier than yours. the grean leaves are emersed growth. the red ones are submerged leaves. i only got this plant about 3 days ago. did i got scammed?


I don't think that's a kleiner bar, the new leaves should be the ones coming in red, and they also tend to grow from the middle, not the outside? Perhaps converting from emersed to submerged the growth patterns are different, though...

I do think that looks more like a Red Rubin.

IDK that you got scammed, though- they're both beautiful red swords and I think they're usually priced about the same?

If those bright green leaves are the new growth looks like you'll need brighter lighting if you want your sword to be red. Or perhaps once the leaves grow taller and closer to the light they'll redden up a bit?


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

this is a lot more expensive than a rubin 
new growth is coming from the middle. the leaves is exactly like you said, too skinny.

the green leaves are old emersed leaves, i should remove them all anyway. oh well...


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

I got mine from a friend's tank (happens to throw out plantlets quite often after a steady dose of root tabs were used).
Submersed form of plantlet.










Not too sure as how emmersed one should look like, and they do differ somewhat according to the place where they are grown at.
This sword is still very rare in Indonesia. Where did you get them from anyway?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

medicineman said:


> Not too sure as how emmersed one should look like, and they do differ somewhat according to the place where they are grown at.
> This sword is still very rare in Indonesia. Where did you get them from anyway?


It's common here, although not as common as Amazon Sword. My LFS has Kleiner Bar Swords in stock often.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

medicineman
that one looks like mine. pm-ed


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