# Unhealthy plant diagnosis



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Well your nitrates are at zero which isn't good and I don't see where you are dosing nitrates. The sword on the right side of the tank needs a trim. Those oval shaped leaves that are yellowing need to be hacked off. The plant was grown emersed and those leaves just won't make it, by doing this it will promote new growth.


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## d-ave (Dec 5, 2016)

Thanks for the reply.

I'll trim off the oval leaves, good information 

Do you recommend a particular nitrate product?


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

I would say kno3 because it is far cheaper to buy dry ferts than liquid but I'm sure seachem makes a liquid version as well. On the sword; the green leaves at the base, which is submerged growth, is that growth since it has been in your tank or was it like that when you bought it? If it is from your tank, that a good sign even though it looks like it does have a nitrate and carbon difficiancy (curled leaves and crinkled). Remember most lfs plants have been grown above water because it's cheaper and easier for growers to produce plants like that. All plants then go through an adjustment period where the above water growth dies off and underwater growth starts.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Nlewis said:


> Well your nitrates are at zero which isn't good and I don't see where you are dosing nitrates. The sword on the right side of the tank needs a trim. Those oval shaped leaves that are yellowing need to be hacked off. The plant was grown emersed and those leaves just won't make it, by doing this it will promote new growth.


Hell, if his tank is nitrate difficient, might as well let the leaves decompose in the tank.

You either need to dose nitrates or accumulate more fish poo. Your plants are starving.


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## d-ave (Dec 5, 2016)

Willcooper said:


> I would say kno3 because it is far cheaper to buy dry ferts than liquid but I'm sure seachem makes a liquid version as well. On the sword; the green leaves at the base, which is submerged growth, is that growth since it has been in your tank or was it like that when you bought it? If it is from your tank, that a good sign even though it looks like it does have a nitrate and carbon difficiancy (curled leaves and crinkled). Remember most lfs plants have been grown above water because it's cheaper and easier for growers to produce plants like that. All plants then go through an adjustment period where the above water growth dies off and underwater growth starts.


The growth at the base was there when I bought it, the new growth isn't looking great either. One new leaf started growing in the first week but is withering today. 
So I can stop worrying about changing the amount of the ferts I have been using and concentrate on raising nitrates through dosing, or possibly increasing stock. 

Does it seem odd that nitrates are so low given my balance of fish to plants? I understand that there are a lot of variables, just trying to learn a good long term solution. The LFS told me it should be a pretty good balance to start. I planned on adding more fish at some point, maybe I should do this now instead of waiting. 

Thanks for all the helpful replies.


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## rob453 (Dec 5, 2016)

Do you have activated charcoal in your filter? I read that charcoal absorbs liquid fertilizer. I also think you need higher fish to plant ratio. Try to decrease the amount of flourish. You may be over fertilizing. The tabs should be good enough for your amazon and other rooted plants.


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

Just fertilize. Don't worry about fish/plant ratios unless you are going a more walstadish type of route. If so get dirt. But like I said, just fertilize. Make sure you have a balance of nutrients; nitrate, phosphate, potassium and micro nutrients including iron. The simplest thing to do would be to order a package of dry ferts and get on a regiment. There are people on here that can sell it super cheap.


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## d-ave (Dec 5, 2016)

rob453 said:


> Do you have activated charcoal in your filter? I read that charcoal absorbs liquid fertilizer. I also think you need higher fish to plant ratio. Try to decrease the amount of flourish. You may be over fertilizing. The tabs should be good enough for your amazon and other rooted plants.


There is charcoal in the filter I believe. I should have cut it out before placing it but just didn't think about it. Thanks for reminding me.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Better photos would help figure out what is wrong more accurately. Close up ones showing the plant damage are needed.

How high up are the lights from the water? What wattage and why only 4 to 5 hrs a day?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

If you just need nitrates you could go into a lowes/hd and purchase certain brands of stump remover. This stump remover from Spectracide is 100% KN03, which is what you want for the aquarium. If you want to purchase all ferts, the best way to go as mentioned is dry ferts online. 

Dose everything and do water changes that is the best way to assure your plants have what they need and your tank stays low on organics to avoid algae.


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## d-ave (Dec 5, 2016)

Zapins said:


> Better photos would help figure out what is wrong more accurately. Close up ones showing the plant damage are needed.
> 
> How high up are the lights from the water? What wattage and why only 4 to 5 hrs a day?


I've included some better photos, though they aren't as clear as I thought.
The Finnex Planted 24 sits about 3 inches above the water line. The other light has 2 x 55 watt bulbs, but it's a 4 foot fixture on a 3 foot tank. It sits about 6 inches above the water line. The 4-5 hour recommendation came from the LFS based on my lack of success with just the Finnex on previous attempts. He said to start it at 4 hours per day and slowly increase it if plants are growing and algae is in check. But this was before I knew that I have no nitrates, so he didn't have that information.


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## d-ave (Dec 5, 2016)

Thanks for the tip on the Spectracide product. I will definitely order some dry ferts online, but that may be useful for a 'right now' fix. 

I'm looking at GLA for their dry fert package. Still lots of research to do, but I appreciate all the help so far.

PPS-Pro | Aquarium Fertilizer | Green Leaf Aquariums

Which forum member(s) sells dry ferts? Willcooper mentioned there were some members who may sell these?

Thanks


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Might be a macro nutrient deficiency (nitrogen or maybe phosphorous), but it is difficult to tell. Might also be a light deficiency. 4-5 hours is quite low, probably too low. I'd raise the number of hours to 8. This alone might help if it is due to light. Either way you need to start adding ferts and raise the lighting whichever order you decide to do it in.


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## d-ave (Dec 5, 2016)

I bought some KNO3 to help until I get some dry ferts online. Will see how it goes with the CF fixture on for 8 hours. Heat is a bit of an issue with that light, so I'll need to get some cooling fans going in the hood too.


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## d-ave (Dec 5, 2016)

*Update*

After dosing nitrates and increasing feeding my nitrates are reading a solid 5ppm if not a bit more. The goal is around 20ppm right? I may be imagining, but it seems like there is already a modest improvement in the plants. 

I'm running a Penguin 200 Biowheel filter that seems to be handling the bioload well so far. I just removed the carbon from the cartridge before dosing the nitrates. 

I do have some green algae on the tank walls and substrate, probably because I was over dosing on Excel and Flourish trying to get my plants to survive. I have stopped those for now and we'll see how it goes with just the nitrates for a while.

Should I skip a water change this week in trying to build nitrates? 

Also, do you think the sword is buried too deep? I read yesterday that it should be more exposed.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

I wouldn't stop fertilizing with the other things you were adding. Plants need all the essential nutrients in order to grow. If one runs out the plant can't grow. So you should keep adding them all to prevent running out.

I don't think the sword is too deep. They should be firmly planted as it currently is. You might be thinking of anubias which has similar shaped leaves but has a rhizome that should not be buried. 

Just keep doing the water changes each week as usual. Fertilizing regularly will build up what you need over time. 20 ppm is a decent value to shoot for. I'd rely more on the website calculator to give you the actual ppm than the test kits which don't have a super high degree of accuracy.

The algae will work itself out over time. Just make the plants happy and they will suppress the algae in the long run.


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

d-ave said:


> I've included some better photos, though they aren't as clear as I thought.
> The Finnex Planted 24 sits about 3 inches above the water line. The other light has 2 x 55 watt bulbs, but it's a 4 foot fixture on a 3 foot tank. It sits about 6 inches above the water line. The 4-5 hour recommendation came from the LFS based on my lack of success with just the Finnex on previous attempts. He said to start it at 4 hours per day and slowly increase it if plants are growing and algae is in check. But this was before I knew that I have no nitrates, so he didn't have that information.




What kind of plant is the last photo (3rd image)? I order some downoi online and they sent me something identical looking to what you have in the third photo 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mike Tobin (Dec 12, 2016)

Hey D-Ave,
When I first started my planted tank I found myself in the same boat as you with your plants and trying to figure out my water parameters. I don't know the background of everyone that has commented, but the BEST advice I can give you is to be PATIENT. Two weeks is a very short amount of time. Your plants will have a period where they "melt" away. They will come back, you just need to stop messing with the water so much. Swords are one of the most hardy plants you can buy. You have good substrate and good lighting. If you have 0ppm nitrates, then ADD a couple fish, but PLEASE don't start throwing more chemicals into your tank. It's an AMAZON SWORD. That plant can grow in rocks. 
I have that exact same amazon sword with the oval leaves with the same substrate. I had the same problem when I brought it home from the fish store with the leaves turning yellow and new leaves looking somewhat clear. Add a couple more fish, make sure your filter is running well, increase your light to 8hrs/day and let it be. If the leaves are looking bad, trim them at the base. The last thing you want is the plant sending nutrients to a leaf and stem that is dying when those nutrients could be going to new growth. I've had success with my new tank that's only 3 months old. I do a 1/2 dose of flourish once/week and have root tabs throughout. Just give your tank time and it will come alive. I'm 3 months into this new tank and I feel like it wasn't that long ago that it starting seeing good consistent growth. Your tank will balance itself for the most part, especially with the hardy plants you have. Best of luck!


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## d-ave (Dec 5, 2016)

Thanks everyone. Always good to hear another perspective Mike  It's good to know you had a positive result with the same situation.

Quick update, my nitrates are up to 15-20ppm now for the last 3-4 days. So now the goal is to stabilize everything and give it time. No real improvement with plant health so far, but it's not been long. My fish are happy and eating well, so that's helping. 

Sorry Will, I don't remember what kind of plant it was. Next time I'm at the lfs I'll ask. It's actually the only holdover from my previous attempt. It survived 3 months with no tank maintenance, fish or light.


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