# Rotala Indica question.



## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Hi, I am setting up a 10 gallon dirted tank. As far as lights go, I am using 2x13 watt CFL bulbs which is 2.6 watts per gallon. I am not going to be supplementing any CO2 injection of excel. Would that plant grow with the setup that I want?


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Depending on how much of it and or other plants you have it may even keep out the algae...one 13W CFL bulb is enough for most plants in a 10g tank. People get one of the clamp on types and remove the clamp, then spray pain the outside black. Then
put a bookshelf bracket on the wall over the tank and hang it there.
Use 5000-6500K bulb.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

R. indica is hard to grow without co2. ROTALA ROTUNDIFOLIA does well.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

BruceF said:


> R. indica is hard to grow without co2. ROTALA ROTUNDIFOLIA does well.


Does Rotala Rotundifolia usually do good in dirted tanks that are low-tech?


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Yes I find it is pretty easy to grow. 2 13w cfls should work fine.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Raymond S. said:


> Depending on how much of it and or other plants you have it may even keep out the algae...one 13W CFL bulb is enough for most plants in a 10g tank. People get one of the clamp on types and remove the clamp, then spray pain the outside black. Then
> put a bookshelf bracket on the wall over the tank and hang it there.
> Use 5000-6500K bulb.


I keep reading that CFL bulbs are inefficient, so is that true? I purchased an Aqueon Economy incandescent hood. Currently, I am using 1x13 watt CFL bulbs. I also dirted my tank. Do you think Rotala Rotundifolia would do good in my tank?


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

BruceF said:


> R. indica is hard to grow without co2. ROTALA ROTUNDIFOLIA does well.


Hello, both are easy to confuse, even vendors do not seem to agree which one is Indica, which one is rotundifolia.

I have rotundifolia? and it is not growing right, or it is growing but getting lots of algae. I wonder which one I have.

Michel.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

probably you have rotundifolia. Why you have algae is a whole other question.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

I am interested in this question too, I just planted a good bunch of R. Indica in my 25 gal high light low tech...does anybody know if it will do ok with high light, ferts and root tabs, but no co2 or excel?


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm glad this thread is getting replies because Im confusing Rotala rotundifolia with indica, and many people do, too. On my 10 gallon dirted tank with 2 13 watt cfl bulbs, which Rotala would grow better? Would I be able to grow both?


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

kidgrave said:


> I'm glad this thread is getting replies because Im confusing Rotala rotundifolia with indica, and many people do, too. On my 10 gallon dirted tank with 2 13 watt cfl bulbs, which Rotala would grow better? Would I be able to grow both?



Maybe someone can find a good side by side comparison of the two...if no one else has, I will see If I can tomorrow. I wish someone had some success growing this without co2 to reassure me, I plan on getting a nice set up, but I hope it can take root and make it for a month without it until I can afford my setup.


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## Fajita (Feb 3, 2014)

BruceF said:


> R. indica is hard to grow without co2. ROTALA ROTUNDIFOLIA does well.


i have copious amounts of rotala indica growing in a 55 gallon with no CO2 and it is the best growing thing in the tank...fast, lush, and red


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Fajita said:


> i have copious amounts of rotala indica growing in a 55 gallon with no CO2 and it is the best growing thing in the tank...fast, lush, and red



I can second this. Obviously any plant will grow better with CO2. But I have managed to get by with average light and no CO2 just fine.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Let me know how the dual 13s works for you. I'm running a single 10w and was thinking of replacing it with a 13w. I'd be afraid of algae issues with dual 13s.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

micheljq said:


> Hello, both are easy to confuse, even vendors do not seem to agree which one is Indica, which one is rotundifolia.
> 
> I have rotundifolia? and it is not growing right, or it is growing but getting lots of algae. I wonder which one I have.
> 
> Michel.


They are not easy to confuse. It's not some kind of minute difference; they are two very different plants. Rotundifolia means 'round leaves'. The EMERSED leaves are round; submersed leaves are not. _Rotala indica_ leaves are ALWAYS round. That's not even getting into the numerous differences having to do with flowers and everything else. If you're growing whatever you have in a low tech tank with no co2, you are growing rotundifolia. 

This is _Rotala indica_ (aka "Ammannia sp. "Bonsai") :









This is _Rotala rotundifolia_:


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

Hmm...so with these pictures I'm thinking I have rotund igloos, for sure...but that's confusing, because with a name like rotundifolia you would think it was the top one and indica was the bottom...people that name plants have to be confusing


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Tinanti said:


> They are not easy to confuse. It's not some kind of minute difference; they are two very different plants. Rotundifolia means 'round leaves'. The EMERSED leaves are round; submersed leaves are not. _Rotala indica_ leaves are ALWAYS round. That's not even getting into the numerous differences having to do with flowers and everything else. If you're growing whatever you have in a low tech tank with no co2, you are growing rotundifolia.


OK then I have rotundifolia,but it is barely growing where other plants thrive. I think my lighting is not enough bright for them. They will go to compost since they are getting lots of algae.

I will try them again when I have a more powerful lighting.

Thank you, Michel.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

micheljq said:


> OK then I have rotundifolia,but it is barely growing where other plants thrive. I think my lighting is not enough bright for them. They will go to compost since they are getting lots of algae.
> 
> I will try them again when I have a more powerful lighting.
> 
> Thank you, Michel.



If you are getting algae done ant that mean you have more than enough lighting, or is it a different kind of algae than the usual GSA? Also by going to compost, does that mean that when plants get choked out by algae, or whatever else and die out they go to fertilize and enrich the substrate? I always wondered if that was the case?


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

It's not that simple, plants have a minimum lighting level that must be met or else they die. That level vary a lot from a species to another. As for algae they adapt to almost any situation, any light level.

I think my rotala do not belong because my light level is not strong enough but I maybe wrong. The other plants in my tank are doing well and they are from species not very demanding.

From my little understanding and experience, a plant which is not doing well will attract algae. Better remove it if this is the case. I throw cuttings and rejects in a corner of the garden.

Michel.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

IME even plants that are thriving will get algae on them if there is too much light and not enough co2...algae on a plant doesn't necessarily mean that the plant is waning, I don't think, I could be wrong though


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

I would still be interested to know if dead plant matter will help enrich the substrate, as it does in a traditional above ground garden


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## Aurie (Jun 3, 2013)

Seadon, from what I've read it would do nothing but pollute the water around it (ammonia spike) like feeding your fish too much. 

Our outdoor gardens won't pollute the air around it, just the ground. the nutrients would go into the ground, and not the air. In an aquarium the decaying plant would release into the water column so it's best to remove it or the leaves that are dying.

Just my 2cents


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Tinanti said:


> They are not easy to confuse. It's not some kind of minute difference; they are two very different plants. Rotundifolia means 'round leaves'. The EMERSED leaves are round; submersed leaves are not. _Rotala indica_ leaves are ALWAYS round. That's not even getting into the numerous differences having to do with flowers and everything else. If you're growing whatever you have in a low tech tank with no co2, you are growing rotundifolia.
> 
> This is _Rotala indica_ (aka "Ammannia sp. "Bonsai") :
> 
> ...


You said rotundifolia is the one with the round leaves. But the one with the round looking leave one is the top image. In my opinion, the indica leaves look round.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

kidgrave said:


> You said rotundifolia is the one with the round leaves. But the one with the round looking leave one is the top image. In my opinion, the indica leaves look round.


I said that when growing above water, they BOTH have round leaves, but when growing under water, only indica does. This is rotundifolia growing above water:


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Tinanti said:


> I said that when growing above water, they BOTH have round leaves, but when growing under water, only indica does. This is rotundifolia growing above water:


Thanks for your response. I have a 10 gallon dirted tank with 2x 13 watt cfl bulbs. Do you think my setup would make it easy to grow rotundifolia?


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

Ok I did some quick, shoddy research, and in aquariums from what I can see they look just about identical...when R.Indica is emersed, it takes on the round leaf characteristics shown in the pics on the first page.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

They don't look AT ALL the same in aquariums. I refer you to the last post on the first page.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

I looked at pictures of rotala Indica in aquariums and they had the skinny needle like foliage 


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

Also I bought some rotala indica from a member on here and it looked like that as well and he assured me that it was indica, so now I am thoroughly confused


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

Seadon said:


> I looked at pictures of rotala Indica in aquariums and they had the skinny needle like foliage
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is NOT indica. I have tried my best to explain.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

Seadon said:


> Also I bought some rotala indica from a member on here and it looked like that as well and he assured me that it was indica, so now I am thoroughly confused
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He/she is incorrect.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Tinanti said:


> That is NOT indica. I have tried my best to explain.


You can't explain it any better than you already have.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

Ok, so I'm going to over simplify it here for my puny brain...if my rotala is in my aquarium, fully under water and it has skinny needle like leaves then it is R. Rotundifolia?


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

Seadon said:


> Ok, so I'm going to over simplify it here for my puny brain...if my rotala is in my aquarium, fully under water and it has skinny needle like leaves then it is R. Rotundifolia?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ua hua said:


> You can't explain it any better than you already have.


Agreed. Normally i would try to add something, but Tinanti covered it all. :thumbsup:


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

I believe what Tinanti is trying to say is....you do not have indica. I got it Tinanti. Thanks for clarifying the differences when grown submerged. I've wondered about these two fairly recently myself.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

Tinanti said:


> Yes



Thank you!


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Seadon said:


> Ok, so I'm going to over simplify it here for my puny brain...if my rotala is in my aquarium, fully under water and it has skinny needle like leaves then it is R. Rotundifolia?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't want to be confused about this plant, either. According to my understanding of all the comments of this thread, Rotala Rotundifolia is supposed to grow with skinny needle leaves, like the picture below.


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes, like in that pic.

That pic is so clean!!!


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

samee said:


> Yes, like in that pic.
> 
> That pic is so clean!!!


Alright, so if I keep Rotala Rotundifolia submersed, it will stay with skinny needle-like leaves, but if it grows emersed, the leaves will become round?

I like that picture, and I want my Rotala R, already. :hihi:


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

kidgrave said:


> Alright, so if I keep Rotala Rotundifolia submersed, it will stay with skinny needle-like leaves, but if it grows emersed, the leaves will become round?
> 
> I like that picture, and I want my Rotala R, already. :hihi:



I believe they do become round when they grow out of the water. But please dont mistake it with another plant, the rotala indica. Two different plants.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

kidgrave said:


> Alright, so if I keep Rotala Rotundifolia submersed, it will stay with skinny needle-like leaves, but if it grows emersed, the leaves will become round?
> 
> I like that picture, and I want my Rotala R, already. :hihi:



I believe your correct, and I know right, I got mine last week and it is beautiful! 


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## Jerzeedevl (Jan 23, 2014)

I have rotala indica in a ten gallon. Dirted tank with a layer of kitty litter then topped with black diamond sand. No co2. Two 23 watt cfl 6500 in stock hood. Run my lights 9 hours a day and they are doing great. It's a slower growth but I have yet to see any type of algae. I also have 10 jungle Val's and two micro sword. Everything is growing...it's just so slow. Been about three weeks now and haven't seen one spec of algae. Not even GDA...and that's the kind I like when it grows all over the back glass. Humph.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

Jerzeedevl said:


> I have rotala indica in a ten gallon. Dirted tank with a layer of kitty litter then topped with black diamond sand. No co2. Two 23 watt cfl 6500 in stock hood. Run my lights 9 hours a day and they are doing great. It's a slower growth but I have yet to see any type of algae. I also have 10 jungle Val's and two micro sword. Everything is growing...it's just so slow. Been about three weeks now and haven't seen one spec of algae. Not even GDA...and that's the kind I like when it grows all over the back glass. Humph.



What kind of reflectors are on the CFL's, I think the PAR levels in the tank have far more to do with the quality of the reflector than the power and type of light...for example you can have the most powerful light in the world, with no reflector at least 75% or more of that light will slip away from the tank, and far less than that will make it to the substrate...so poor reflector could cause your lack of algae, because those lights on a 10gal are def. powerful enough to sustain it.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Seadon said:


> I believe your correct, and I know right, I got mine last week and it is beautiful!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you please keep me updated and show me the progress of your Rotala growing? Just wondering, what light fixture are you using? I'm using 2x13 watt CFLs on my 10 gallon. :smile:


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Seadon said:


> What kind of reflectors are on the CFL's, I think the PAR levels in the tank have far more to do with the quality of the reflector than the power and type of light...for example you can have the most powerful light in the world, with no reflector at least 75% or more of that light will slip away from the tank, and far less than that will make it to the substrate...so poor reflector could cause your lack of algae, because those lights on a 10gal are def. powerful enough to sustain it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As far as reflectors go, I am using the stock ones that come with the Aqueon Economy hood. I don't know how good they are, but I heard that they are not that great. I use that hood because I didn't feel like having 2 lamps on top of my tank. I recently dirted my tank a week ago, and kept running my 2x13 watt lights everyday for about 6-8 hours, and didn't get any algea at all. But maybe this is because I did water changes everyday to remove the excess nutrients.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

Your probably losing enough light to keep algae at bay...with more effective reflectors though I would say you would grow oodles of algae, but in this scenario it is working out. It would be interesting to see a PAR meter reading on it though, to see just how much light does slip away.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Seadon said:


> Your probably losing enough light to keep algae at bay...with more effective reflectors though I would say you would grow oodles of algae, but in this scenario it is working out. It would be interesting to see a PAR meter reading on it though, to see just how much light does slip away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Check the Light stickies. There's tons of PAR data on that exact scenario with multiple lighting, including CFL. Even goes so far as vertical mounting vs horizontal. Great info.


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## Seadon (Mar 24, 2014)

I will have to just for kicks, I kind of skimmed over the CFL's and nano tanks because they never really applied to me, but this thread and scenario has piqued my interest lol


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