# Java Moss under high light?



## Henri (Jul 7, 2011)

Hi everyone,
This thing has been bugging me for a while now. I have had problems keeping Java Moss alive since I first got it 10 months ago. At first I put it in my 10 gallon under 1wpg, most of it turned brown and died, making a huge mess. This happened because I just placed it in the tank as a big bushy structure, and the light could not penetrate in the deeper layers I think. However the part that survived stayed like that for months in the 10 gallon. I got a 20 gallon recently, I made a dirt substrate and I'm going to densely plant it, but I really liked the idea of having a moss in that tank, so I transferred the moss to the bigger tank. At first there were 2wpg on the tank, using CFLs, now I upgrated to 2,6. Not much, I know. However, the moss was in the tank during the 2wpg period. At that time, it started to become darker in color, slowly turning brown, and started producing some thread-like "leaves"/structure. I don't know if this is an algae or a part of the plant? 
I removed the plant about 3-4 weeks later and put it back in the 10 gallon. At the moment it hasn't made any HUGE improvement, but I think I can tell it's not turning brown anymore and it's surviving. Although the thread like structure is growing more densely and it has taken over most of the moss.
Now can I put it back to the 20 gallon since I made the upgrade, or would it still die? The 20G has been injected with CO2 all along. 
Also, what can I do about the thread-like thing, can I remove it manually? Is this the thing that is actually killing the moss?
Thanks and sorry for the long post.


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## scream-aim-fire (Nov 4, 2008)

You need to post pics of the moss for anyone to determine what your talking about with it, also where did you get it from, from here on the sns or from a local fish store?


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

I was wondering, same thing started happening on one of my tanks.


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## Rich Guano (Jan 19, 2012)

I have had the same line of java moss growing in two of my tanks for over a year now. both tanks have had changes in lighting that had no effect on its growth rate or color. 

The use of Flourish Excel has caused my moss to turn brown and die off. Discontinuation of its use allowed my moss to turn bright green again and grow back. I believe others have had the same results.


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## Henri (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks for your replies guys.
I wish I could really take a picture but I'm actually on vacation and I'll be home in 10 days so I can't really take a pic right now .
I bought the moss on Aquabid and it was really healthy when it arrived.
Just for everyone's information, I don't use any chemicals because they're not found in my country, the only chemical I use is the dechlorinator, Tetra Aquasafe.
However, could the injected CO2 be causing this? The person above me said that Excel was causing it, and from what I've read about here, Excel is just a liquid "version" of CO2. So?


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## LAKE (Jul 9, 2012)

Do the light conditions for your moss mimic the natural conditions very well?

Many mosses rarely get full and consistent light throughout the day. In nature they tend to grow best where they are partially shaded by another piece of nature during periods of the day. They often have to wait to get the light that they can when they are able to get it through the canopy above. They are quite an efficient plant, they do well when they have to reach for the light a little but they sometimes receed if the combination of intensity and duration of light are beyond the limits the plant is currently evolved to thrive in. They can easily be acclimated to out of the ordinary conditions, best if over a period of time. This is not to imply that they are only for low light, no CO2 set ups by any means.

A common method I use with Java Fern:
-Stand a large piece of driftwood vertically so the plant can be rooted under the edge a little but the wood protrudes above the plant slightly part way up.
-Use a cheap timer on the lights with rest periods built into the cycle. You may or may not want this to occur for the other plants. By using shorter lights on the rest of the tank and a separate light (e.g. Compact Fluorescent Light) above the Java Fern it is sustained by the sporadic separate light but will reach for the main light.
-I prefer multiple lights on separate timers creating a wide variety of different light conditions throughout the day and a much longer viewable period on most of my tanks.
-An economical approach to varied light conditions is a mass of floating plants circulating in the current but I am strongly biased against this for a variety of reasons.


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## Henri (Jul 7, 2011)

LAKE said:


> Do the light conditions for your moss mimic the natural conditions very well?
> 
> Many mosses rarely get full and consistent light throughout the day. In nature they tend to grow best where they are partially shaded by another piece of nature during periods of the day. They often have to wait to get the light that they can when they are able to get it through the canopy above. They are quite an efficient plant, they do well when they have to reach for the light a little but they sometimes receed if the combination of intensity and duration of light are beyond the limits the plant is currently evolved to thrive in. They can easily be acclimated to out of the ordinary conditions, best if over a period of time. This is not to imply that they are only for low light, no CO2 set ups by any means.
> 
> ...


I thought that Java Moss was one of the toughest and quickest adaptable plant, from what the others around here say, but I found out it was not the same for me.
The bulbs I have are CFLs, both are white and have it even written on them "Daylight ".
Trying to make things a little simpler, since I am still 16 and I can't find timers for aquarium lights in my crappy country, what are the cons of placing a floating plant in this tank instead? I have a bunch of hornwort in a 10 gallon. The thing I dont like about it is that the filter current doesn't allow it to stay in the middle of the tank, but push it to a corner instead.
Also, can you shortly tell me how do you acclimate your plants? I just used to put them in the tank and that's it.
About the Java Fern, does it not like high light aswell, like java moss?


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## tobystanton (Jun 27, 2012)

Whats the temperature of your tank ? My java moss seems to melt at 80 degrees +


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## LAKE (Jul 9, 2012)

Tough and quickly adaptable - lets put that in perspective.

Tough - sure is! A well established plant that is shredded by a huge fish and the pieces left in the tank often result in most of the pieces growing! Also tough in it's ability to withstand periods of deficiencies by more effectively storing nutrients than many plants.

Quickly Adaptable - Most living things take generations for significant adaptations to be effective and observable. In comparison this plant is a rocket, but it still requires actual growth to effectively adapt a significant degree. Consider that the old roots and leaves have honed their efficiency for the previous conditions. If the new conditions are very similar, no problem. If the new conditions are quite different the plant needs to achieve enough new growth in the leaves and roots that are more efficient in the present conditions than the old growth that sustains it with help from the stored nutrients during this period.

-Not all daylight bulbs are equal. I tend to prefer mixing combinations of bulbs instead of identical bulbs, even if they are similar. Of course, we're not too worried about that for this plant.

-Simple suggestions - If you tend to leave the light on while you are home consider shading the Java Moss part with a sheet of paper briefly once in a while, or turning off the light while you do dishes or something else then turn the light back on afterwards. A rigid schedule is not necessary and is actually less natural.

-Floating plants tend to get caught and not continue to circulate or circulate too quickly and turn into a big tight ball. These plants tend to do better when they are more still. I find floating plants are more prone to algae and rot when they move around more. Pieces also break off, get caught on other plants or in filters and is just a pain when that all starts to grow. This can be used to your advantage, you can let it shade the Java Moss and slowly trim it back as the Moss reaches for the light.

-Acclimating plants is really a case by case basis. I know the conditions my plants were previously in because they generally came from another tank in my care. Each plant is a little different and can react a little differently to a variety of parameters. Learn to read the growth of your plants, fast or slow they have a lot to say! Basically if I know the natural conditions of the plant I try to mimic that first. As I get experience with that plant I put pieces of it in different conditions and gradually get them used to those, learning and watching the differences as they adapt to the different sets of conditions. If you know that the plant has different conditions than it previously had, even if you don't know how the conditions are different, it is going to need time to adjust without additional changes. Some more advanced plants require great in depth strategies to increase success acclimating, I find gradual is the key in these cases. For example acclimating an emerged terrestrial plant to submerged aquatic conditions. Many, many plants just need put in the tank, left in reasonably consistent conditions and that's it.

-I find Java Fern and Java Moss adapt differently but at similar rates. Java Moss seems more shade loving than Java Fern. Java Fern does better emerged (floating) and in long direct light periods than Java Moss. Both can tolerate the conditions of the other in a short period of time. Java Fern much more readily dies off and sprouts new growth adapted to the lighting conditions. Let that little broken brown piece float, there is a good chance it will sprout (same but slower for the moss). Many impatient people get frustrated with the initial die off of Java Fern and toss it before the new growth takes hold. Java Moss doesn't do the extremes as much as Java Fern, when the Fern takes over it accelerates quickly! Floating Java Fern loves natural light although I wouldn't recommend direct sunlight on the tank. I keep plenty in a tank with no light. I wouldn't expect a need for CO2 unless in grown heavy competition.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

Henri said:


> However, could the injected CO2 be causing this? The person above me said that Excel was causing it, and from what I've read about here, Excel is just a liquid "version" of CO2. So?


Nope, CO2 isn't the problem. Excel is another chemical altogether, it's not liquid CO2, nor is it metabolized in the same way. 

I've found Java moss to be pretty durable stuff. It's growing well in a couple of my tanks where it has very low light and in another under medium light. It doesn't grow particularly fast though (it's nothing in comparison to some stem plants,) so if you're not seeing major growth in a month that's no real surprise.

If your temperature is very high you might have problems keeping it alive, but that really takes some heat. If you keep your place boiling hot in the winter, that might have been the issue.


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## Henri (Jul 7, 2011)

jasonpatterson said:


> Nope, CO2 isn't the problem. Excel is another chemical altogether, it's not liquid CO2, nor is it metabolized in the same way.
> 
> I've found Java moss to be pretty durable stuff. It's growing well in a couple of my tanks where it has very low light and in another under medium light. It doesn't grow particularly fast though (it's nothing in comparison to some stem plants,) so if you're not seeing major growth in a month that's no real surprise.
> 
> If your temperature is very high you might have problems keeping it alive, but that really takes some heat. If you keep your place boiling hot in the winter, that might have been the issue.


Oh really? I read posts that people were killing it with excel so they stopped using it :S
My tanks are kept at 24 degrees Celcius at winter, propably summer is more of a worry? It gets around 35 degrees C outside and even reaches 40.


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## angelsword (May 16, 2009)

Henri,

In your first post, you mentioned planting the java moss densely Are you putting the moss into your substrate? It's a floating plant. You can tie it to wood, in fact, it'll attach itself eventually but you can't bury it.

I've had a 55 gallon literally filled with java moss and two inches of Riccia on the surface and I never had the java moss die from lack of light.

Are you planting the java moss in the substrate? If so, that's probably the problem.


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## Henri (Jul 7, 2011)

angelsword said:


> Henri,
> 
> In your first post, you mentioned planting the java moss densely Are you putting the moss into your substrate? It's a floating plant. You can tie it to wood, in fact, it'll attach itself eventually but you can't bury it.
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for your reply.
My bad sorry, I haven't planted it.
Thr thing is that when I first had it in the 10 gallon I just tied it to a decoration, a sunken ship and it wasn't growing because I hadn't spread it. I didn't know what was going on and I asked on another forum and people were telling me to spread it around with my fingers because the deeper layers wont get enough light. And thats what I did, when I put my finger in the moss, there were dead pieces on the bottom layers and it made a mess when I spread it with my fingers.
I'm keeping the moss under 1wpg atm in the 10G and seriously don't know what's going on


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## Java Moss (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm pretty sure JM is meant for low-light or shade. Tried it 3 times in my high-tech and it started off great for a few months. Then, it started to become a problem...dead spots, black hair algae and so on. Would trim it back and clean out all the fish poop and it seemed to only create more dead spots and algae. 

Finally took it out and threw it in my son's 20G-long low-tech. Algae died off, dead spots worked themselves out into floating pieces and it's attached to wood and rocks very nicely after a couple months. Doesn't grow anywhere near as fast as it did in the high-tech...but, it appears that low-medium light is where it's meant to be.


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## utilities21 (Oct 25, 2017)

Henri said:


> Hi everyone,
> This thing has been bugging me for a while now. I have had problems keeping Java Moss alive since I first got it 10 months ago. At first I put it in my 10 gallon under 1wpg, most of it turned brown and died, making a huge mess. This happened because I just placed it in the tank as a big bushy structure, and the light could not penetrate in the deeper layers I think. However the part that survived stayed like that for months in the 10 gallon. I got a 20 gallon recently, I made a dirt substrate and I'm going to densely plant it, but I really liked the idea of having a moss in that tank, so I transferred the moss to the bigger tank. At first there were 2wpg on the tank, using CFLs, now I upgrated to 2,6. Not much, I know. However, the moss was in the tank during the 2wpg period. At that time, it started to become darker in color, slowly turning brown, and started producing some thread-like "leaves"/structure. I don't know if this is an algae or a part of the plant?
> I removed the plant about 3-4 weeks later and put it back in the 10 gallon. At the moment it hasn't made any HUGE improvement, but I think I can tell it's not turning brown anymore and it's surviving. Although the thread like structure is growing more densely and it has taken over most of the moss.
> Now can I put it back to the 20 gallon since I made the upgrade, or would it still die? The 20G has been injected with CO2 all along.
> ...


I have literally struggled with keeping my java moss live and healthy during the past 6 months and learnt a few things about it. Java moss does not like moving around from tank to tank quite a lot. The plant starts thriving after a sedentary period of a few days to weeks. And once it gets stable tank conditions and water parameters, it grows really fast. You'd see it creeping up your rock pieces, clinging to your substrate. You'd see it growing everywhere.

Java moss does not tolerate high temperatures. So its better to have temperatures close to 22-23 degree Celsius.I raised temperature of my tank to 80 degree F to combat an ICK attak and lost most of my Java moss in the process. It however grew back once i lowered the temperatures again. 

Also if it is infested with green hair algae ( i feel the hairy growth on your java moss is that...if it is green in colour)...be sure to treat it asap or it will take over the moss and may even kill it. My java moss was badly infested with algae and algae was growing just as fast as java moss... i came across a post that advocated use of a weak bleach solution to treat Algae infested moss ..so i even did that as a last resort.
with a 4% bleach solution, however i would not recommend you do it...because i still have to see if it works.

Java moss is however quite a hardy moss in that it jumps back everytime it has undergone a stress period so i am hopeful this time too, it would.

There are some youtube videos on using hydrogen peroxide for treating green hair algae thats safer than bleach..

hope that helps....


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