# Apex Controller what it can do for you



## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Nice write up Paul. I have an Apex and agree, it's great to have if you can afford the luxury.

I notice you're still using the old webpage for it though. Have you tried the new Apex Fusion? It makes creating programs and using the system so much nicer and enjoyable. Also, you won't need DDNS anymore either.

Here's a shot of my dashboard on Fusion.


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## Crimson (Jul 10, 2014)

bsantucci said:


> Nice write up Paul. I have an Apex and agree, it's great to have if you can afford the luxury.
> 
> I notice you're still using the old webpage for it though. Have you tried the new Apex Fusion? It makes creating programs and using the system so much nicer and enjoyable. Also, you won't need DDNS anymore either.
> 
> Here's a shot of my dashboard on Fusion.


I do have FUSION enabled and I was also in their open beta program. I am just rather use to the old school methods. Even RussM who is a mod on the forums will tell you it's good practice to know both.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Crimson said:


> I do have FUSION enabled and I was also in their open beta program. I am just rather use to the old school methods. Even RussM who is a mod on the forums will tell you it's good practice to know both.


I don't disagree, just wasn't sure if you were aware. I came up using the old interface so I'm familiar with using that and building my own programs, but just wanted to point this out. It could definitely benefit others, and I find using that interface on my cell phone is great for a remote controller, especially since it was built for touch interfaces.


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## Crimson (Jul 10, 2014)

bsantucci said:


> I don't disagree, just wasn't sure if you were aware. I came up using the old interface so I'm familiar with using that and building my own programs, but just wanted to point this out. It could definitely benefit others, and I find using that interface on my cell phone is great for a remote controller, especially since it was built for touch interfaces.


Agreed 

I haven't tried fusion on my phone yet. TBH, I don't think many who own a planted tank would consider an apex but you never know.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fun alternative for the daring.. 
http://ferduino.com/about/










Board is $175.. 
currently only hard wireable.. AFAICT


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## ConfidentBlue (Aug 27, 2013)

I can't get FUSION to work to save my life! I get a huge amount of errors.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

ConfidentBlue said:


> I can't get FUSION to work to save my life! I get a huge amount of errors.


Do you have all firmware updated? 

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


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## ConfidentBlue (Aug 27, 2013)

Nah I haven't had the time. I had the firmware updated before and was still disconnecting so I'm not sure what the deal was. I know I need to update it tho [emoji86]


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Definitely update to the latest and greatest and issue a new token to yourself. It should work after I would think.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

If you use LED's and are into it, then running the lighting is a key aspect that is useful for a general controller.

Ph, no.
Temp, not really.

pH is addressed very a good CO2 reg and needle valve. 
And it's not really pH, rather, CO2, pH is just an indirect aspect of CO2 additions/removal.

KH/ bicarbonate alkalinity will move around due to tap water and frequency of water changes, CO2 etc. Many folks have non carbonate alkalinity and use this for their water changes, reefers often use RO and really monitor their KH a lot more generally. So if the KH changes, then the CO2 rate will change also if you rely on a pH controller. If you miss this change in KH, then you add too much CO2(dead fish) or too little(algae blooms).

Now you can track and monitor pH, and use that as a relative semi automated measure, but a pH meter, say an American Marine pinpoint will do the same job.

ATO's or automated water changes are great for planted tanked tanks. But a simple timer and a simple design can avoid any need for a controller function requirements.

Temp? Most heaters have those. So dimming lighting and ramp up/down, really the biggest thing. 

O2 would be nice, few hobbyists measure it, I might be one of the 1/2 dozen I know of in the last 20 years that has measured it.

TDS I suppose.

Power heads and random control functions with those and the lighting perhaps. Ecotech does this with the Radion and the vortechs. I use those for my reef.

I guess there's just a lot more demand for Reef folks than planted for such techy based controller and IT based integration, not so much in the planted groups. If ADA came out with one, then every obsequious fan boy would immediately buy one and tell everyone else how great they are 

I need some degree of practical rational to buy something and need it to be fairly user friendly. Having to learn all about something else and maintain that......... is another hobby unto itself. Once you do, then it's fine, but.......if have not, many will not take that step. 

High tech and low tech tends to refer to CO2 gas addition, or not for planted tanks. The great divide. Which is generally why Reef/marine folks do not make such distinctions.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

I don't disagree with most of your writing, but the heater I'm a much bigger fan of controlling with the apex since I have it. The apex's probe is much more precise and I have it set to turn off power when it reaches a certain temp. This makes sure I can't cook my fish with a malfunction.

I don't regulate my co2 with the ph controller, but I do use it as a rough gauge to see how much it drops like you said. I find that very helpful to see the same peaks and valleys on the chart to make sure it's consistent, which we all know is key.

Lighting is by far the biggest use of it as mentioned. I find random uses / ideas for this each day when I think more about it. Agreed though, way more function for reefers, but still has a place here if it's affordable to the user and they have a willingness to learn.


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## Crimson (Jul 10, 2014)

Crimson said:


> For me, I find it worth every penny. However, I still find it more valuable for a reef than a planted tank though. When I owned two rare pintail cf wrasse pair plus several other rare saltwater fish and several hundreds in coral it made sense. I wanted to make sure a system failure would not cause the demise of my reef inhabitants.
> 
> Thanks for reading and if you decided on buying one please feel free to pm me if you need help.
> 
> ...


I will go ahead and quote myself at the end of my mini write up. I fully agree that if I already did not own one from my reef tank I would probably not drop $525 for one. In the reefing world the apex can control cal reactors, power heads (in my case Tunze), skimmers, ato, lights ect where in planted world no so much.

Tell you this much no more heading to the LFS to pick up 50 gallon buckets of salt is a nice thing. However, I still wonder if I should of just downsized my reef. Part of me has some regret and the other part of me knows I will go back to it some day just not now.


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## 691175002 (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that for many people the technology and toys are half the fun of a reef tank.

If I had a larger tank I'd totally put a bunch of sensors in just to see the graphs. Once you hit a critical mass of automation such as lighting, auto dosing, and auto waterchanges, the cost of an Apex unit pretty much nets out to zero and you can control everything from a single location.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Very slick. I love the web integration.

But for planted tanks, I'd agree, not worth the $500+.

OTOH, if you're willing to roll up your sleeves and do some soldering and wiring yourself, I'm absolutely riveted by AnotherHobby's "iAqua" Arduino-based controller project. The only areas that it's lacking against the Apex is web integration (a big one, admittedly... but this could come in the future) and the ph meter (which is very cool, don't get me wrong, but as PlantedBrain pointed out, not entirely necessary with decent hardware).

But you CAN fully control your lighting, your temps (complete with audible and visual alarms), AND automate EI dosing, which is huge. Not to mention a whole slew of other things. (I'm especially fond of the "Feeding mode" which switches the lighting to a good level for feeding, turns off your pumps, co2 and inline heaters so the food doesn't get blown all over the tank or sucked into an intake, and then brings it all back to normal after x minutes) And some form of basic co2 monitoring is in the process. (mostly via large pressure fluctuations, but this could stop end of tank dumping and give you a better indication of co2 status, for those who are a little more hands off with their tanks)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=677265

Not for the faint of heart, but as long as you work slow, and have some basic soldering skills, all the hard work is done, so this could be put together without any other special skills needed, for perhaps $200, all in.

And frankly, IMO the always on (this is also adjustable, of course) touchscreen interface blows away the Apex interface, even if it's not web-connected.


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## BigJay180 (Jul 20, 2014)

Crimson said:


> I will go ahead and quote myself at the end of my mini write up. I fully agree that if I already did not own one from my reef tank I would probably not drop $525 for one. In the reefing world the apex can control cal reactors, power heads (in my case Tunze), skimmers, ato, lights ect where in planted world no so much.
> 
> Tell you this much no more heading to the LFS to pick up 50 gallon buckets of salt is a nice thing. However, I still wonder if I should of just downsized my reef. Part of me has some regret and the other part of me knows I will go back to it some day just not now.


I probably will buy a web controller eventually, for no other reason to check on things when I'm out of town.

I miss my reef, but I don't miss the cost of salt, GFO, carbon, replacement pumps, and emptying the nasty skim mate daily. Not to mention the water bill. To create 90-100 gallons of RODi every week wasted hundreds of gallons of water. 

I miss the sump/refugium the most. I could spend hours staring at all of the life in there. I fed it phytoplankton, so I had feather dusters everywhere in addition to thousands of little copepods, snails, worms, and a few scavenger crabs living in the coral rubble and chaeto macro algae. Many of those in turn, would get sucked into the tank, where they would feed a very happy mandarin fish.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

I just purchased one about 2 weeks ago, and have it in place where I want it, but have not setup yet. I have been trying to decide if I should order a wireless extender or just hardwire cat5e. Not sure if I want to crawl under my house. I know firmware has to be done with hardwire. What do you guys suggest? Cannot wait to start using it.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

FishStix said:


> I just purchased one about 2 weeks ago, and have it in place where I want it, but have not setup yet. I have been trying to decide if I should order a wireless extender or just hardwire cat5e. Not sure if I want to crawl under my house. I know firmware has to be done with hardwire. What do you guys suggest? Cannot wait to start using it.


As a network professional, I can offer you this general advice: Hardwire is ALWAYS preferable to wireless, if it's at all feasible. Crawl under your house once, and you'll never have to worry about it again.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

kman said:


> As a network professional, I can offer you this general advice: Hardwire is ALWAYS preferable to wireless, if it's at all feasible. Crawl under your house once, and you'll never have to worry about it again.


That what I was thinking as well. I have read some stories online and seems like wireless extender always fail when someone goes out of time so on. I guess it will give myself and the father-in-law something to do this weekend. :red_mouth

Thanks


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## mflander (Jul 30, 2014)

I just installed an Apex Controller last weekend on my planted tank. 

I travel a lot for work and we rarely spend weekends at home in the summertime. So for me, I got it to keep an eye on the tank when I am not home, and so that I do not have to rely on anybody to take care of it. Not only is my tank now self sustaining, but I can adjust virtually every setting on it from anywhere, including my fert doses and co2. I also really enjoy technology and this thing is just a lot of fun to play with. 

My setup has 2 drews dosers, 1 auto feeder, leak detector, and the lunar module along with the main Apex unit. 

I have thought of at least a couple of new things each day since saturday to do with it. I expect I will find many many more in the future. After some time reading the manual, I don't think programming it is difficult at all. And with a little help from google you can find help on anything I have thought of so far if needed. 

You are correct, it is a luxury purchase and high priced, but it was worth every penny to me. If I do any more tanks they will have it also, I highly recommend it. 

Now if they could just give me sensors for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphorus, potassium, iron, etc. etc. etc.  Oh, an invisible par meter in the bottom of the tank to adjust my leds to correct for the cleanliness of the glass top would be nice too. lol...


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

^^ The auto-feeder capabilities are nice. I wish there was a good comparable system for freshwater tanks. I don't really trust that style of autofeeder, though, and it doesn't seem to be optimized for my preferred flake food.


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## mflander (Jul 30, 2014)

What food do you use?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Crimson said:


> I will go ahead and quote myself at the end of my mini write up. I fully agree that if I already did not own one from my reef tank I would probably not drop $525 for one. In the reefing world the apex can control cal reactors, power heads (in my case Tunze), skimmers, ato, lights ect where in planted world no so much.
> 
> Tell you this much no more heading to the LFS to pick up 50 gallon buckets of salt is a nice thing. However, I still wonder if I should of just downsized my reef. Part of me has some regret and the other part of me knows I will go back to it some day just not now.


Funny you mention the saltwater making as I used to dread that too. Now that I live in San Diego I can get free filtered ocean water from Scripps Institute but have yet to setup a reef again. The itch is slow coming back though. This time around if I do it thought I will stick to a smallish (25g cube) and just have wavemakers and a Tunze 9004 inside the tank.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

mflander said:


> What food do you use?


Omega One flake.

I've seen a lot of rotary drum-based feeders, and while they've clearly gone through a lot of effort to minimize the inherent issues, I simply don't trust the design, particularly with smaller tanks (and therefore, smaller amount of food... one accidental large dump could cause a serious nitrate spike in a smaller tank).

The only design I've come to trust is the rotary style (works like a slide projector). 14 individual slots hold however much food I want to give per day, all pre-loaded in exact amounts. Then it simply rotates the carousel compartments over a hole and the food drops. Simple and trustworthy design, but only one I've found on the market (www.amazon.com/Fish-Mate-F14-Aquarium-Feeder/dp/B000YK5W18/) doesn't really lend itself to automation without disassembly and serious hacking into the mechanism. Works well enough on it's own, but it would be cool to see something like that integrated into a controller-based system so it could be controlled externally.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Crimson said:


> Tell you this much no more heading to the LFS to pick up 50 gallon buckets of salt is a nice thing. However, I still wonder if I should of just downsized my reef. Part of me has some regret and the other part of me knows I will go back to it some day just not now.


There's that, or making your own water/marine mix. I use RO for drinking if the tap is hard etc, high KH. Tap is insanely high grade where I live now. 

Good skimming and other methods can avoid weekly or water changes every 2 weeks. I do water changes every 2 weeks, about 50%. But, the tank is small............larger reef tanks require different management to be a decent trade off with water changes. 30 Gallon vs 300 gallon etc.

Not so with Freshwater plants, I'd say the FW planted tanks require more labor. 

But as mentioned, for many, the techy stuff is 1/2 the fun.
I use to be that way, but.........over time...........I've KISS, less stuff to go wrong, and more design based on redundancy. But also choosing really nice tanks, light, stands, placement in the home, high grade equipment etc.

Since you are not out of the Reef idea totally, do a smaller frag tank and grow those out and in 1-2 years you'll have nice stock to add to larger tank. A couple of 5 gallon buckets, a small RO system, you can do the water changes once every week or two and not have to do much else other than feed and add traces etc, light etc. 

Also, if you have ample planning time, hire a plumber to add a tap water line (hot and cold) and a drain to the FW plant tank, then with a sump, you can do an easy automated water changer. 

Done for a reef tank, you can simply plumb a line for the drain and refill to the reservoir and a float switch etc. 101 ways there. 

Use the Apex for the FW plant and the Reef stuff then. 
Since you are already using it and like to use it, no sense in NOT using it.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

plantbrain said:


> Also, if you have ample planning time, hire a plumber to add a tap water line (hot and cold) and a drain to the FW plant tank, then with a sump, you can do an easy automated water changer.


Curious about this: Using metro tap water, how are you supposed to dechlorinate the water, if it's going directly into the tank from the tap? (and of course I mean with Prime)


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

kman said:


> Curious about this: Using metro tap water, how are you supposed to dechlorinate the water, if it's going directly into the tank from the tap? (and of course I mean with Prime)


On a timer with a dosing pump? You can add prime to the tank (a full tank dose) and then fill the tank right from the tap. Only downside is that it would always smell like farts.


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## Crimson (Jul 10, 2014)

kman said:


> Curious about this: Using metro tap water, how are you supposed to dechlorinate the water, if it's going directly into the tank from the tap? (and of course I mean with Prime)


I have been using my RODI for water and supplementing it with equilibrium (only if doing a water change). I know... its overkill (again, left over reef gear) BRS 6 stage RODI with 2 stages for DI. It comes out at 0 TDS to the tank. Before water enters the DI stage its around 4 TDS.

House water --> electric solenoid --> RODI --> Tank
.................................l
..............................Apex <-- Float switch 

I need to buy another float switch as a backup and maybe even another solenoid in-line just in case. 

Think my New Years resolution for this forum not to use the word "Reef" in my posts


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## mflander (Jul 30, 2014)

kman said:


> mflander said:
> 
> 
> > What food do you use?
> ...


Thanks for the info!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

kman said:


> Curious about this: Using metro tap water, how are you supposed to dechlorinate the water, if it's going directly into the tank from the tap? (and of course I mean with Prime)


Carbon pre filter on the incoming line. 

Or do small daily water changes, say 5-10% slowly.

Bump: Another item for the list of APEX items: automated feeding timers. 

Yes, you can buy others with timers etc, but it's nice to integrate.


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## jjp2 (May 24, 2008)

I have an APEX. I love it as I don't have to crawl around to unplug pumps when I do water changes, and can easily change my lighting schedules.

I have the display. I do not use it at all. The iPad application for APEX is much better and allows you to do everything, even the programming.

John


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

FishStix said:


> That what I was thinking as well. I have read some stories online and seems like wireless extender always fail when someone goes out of time so on. I guess it will give myself and the father-in-law something to do this weekend. :red_mouth
> 
> Thanks


Well after a lot of work I managed to run cat5e cable direct to the Apex from my router. It was worth the work in the long run I think. Updated the firmware without any problems, now I just have to sit down and figure out how to setup when I get some time.


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## mflander (Jul 30, 2014)

FishStix said:


> Well after a lot of work I managed to run cat5e cable direct to the Apex from my router. It was worth the work in the long run I think. Updated the firmware without any problems, now I just have to sit down and figure out how to setup when I get some time.


Wanna come run some through my house next?


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

FishStix said:


> Well after a lot of work I managed to run cat5e cable direct to the Apex from my router. It was worth the work in the long run I think. Updated the firmware without any problems, now I just have to sit down and figure out how to setup when I get some time.


Well worth the effort, because now you'll never have to wonder if the problem is the Apex, or something funky with your wireless (which is hellaciously hard to troubleshoot). With a wire... you're done.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

mflander said:


> Wanna come run some through my house next?


ha, I have had more than my fun time under the house :hihi:. I also ran 2 HDMI cables at the same time for my TV. At one point I was wondering if I was going to make it out alive...:hihi:

Bump: Do you guys run surge protector on your EB? I cannot find much info about this? My EB runs to GFCI, and the house is on whole house surge protector, but the power company tells me I need surge protector for small items, and the whole house is just for the big stuff, like fridge, stove so on.

I did some searching online and found where I can buy 1 outlet surge protector, that I could plug the EB into. What your thoughts on this should I setup this way?

I don't really care if it on a UPS as I have whole house generator, that is setup to kick on after 30 mins without power. I have included a picture of the one outlet surge protector


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

The apex is a very nice system I will agree but the cost is high. I will be investing in the reef keeper system instead. The Reef Keeper Lite Plus to be exact. Its a cheaper option and for a planted tank, its more cost effective in my opinion. I can run two of these for both my 40g breeder stands and it will equal the price of one apex. If you can shell out the funds for the apex, by all means, go for it. But there are other options.


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## alpha1172 (Sep 5, 2005)

i own the reefkeeper lite but i really wish i would have bought the elite. The lite has has several restrictions they dont tell you, obviously the 4 module limit. But also the alarms dont reset on their own, you can only use one input per alarm. No using time as an alarm input either only 1 standby mode. There are more but that are the major ones.Plus the programming for some advanced features like led dimming is really complicated and not straight forward. 

There is also the issue with ports 2/3 getting latched on when using low amperage items, its an easy fix but still if you forget about it it can be disastrous 

Apex fusion really puts them ahead of the game

you could use just one to run both of your tanks also, max recommended cable length is 50ft. I would wait a few months also. They have a new system coming out so im sure there ill be a bunch of used systems up for sale. Plus it is web based so might be as easy as fusion to use 

and now back to apex discussion


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

I finally got around to setting up my apex the way I want it. I was wondering does anyone have a web cam setup with the apex, and if so what web cam are you using?

I am thinking of buying 2, one to watch the tank and one to watch the sump area.

Any suggestions? I don't want to spend much, so I can spend fair amount on plants and fish.

Thanks


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Foscam HD?

I just bought an Apex, now I have an Apex on one tank and Profilux. Both have their pros and cons, but Apex wins on price [all the parts are cheaper than GHL's equivalent] and software.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Do any of you guys use your Apex for waterchanges?

Here's my program:
*ATO_Timer (VO)*
Set OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF
Defer 030:00 Then ON

*AWC (VO)*
Set OFF
If Time 14:59 to 15:59 Then ON
If DOW -M--T-- Then OFF

*Drain*
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then ON
If Sw2 OPEN Then OFF

*Fill*
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF
If Outlet ATO_Timer = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

*Return*
Fallback ON
Set ON
If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF
If Sw2 OPEN Then OFF


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