# Finally starting out!! Do I have evrything to get started??



## PattyCakes81 (Jul 4, 2010)

Hi All!!









I think I want to start my 20 gal High tank!!! Finally after all the questions I ask!!









All I had to start with was the bare bones, Just a 20 gal high tank and metal stand, that's it.

Here is a list of all the things I have purchased and/or ordered:

1. Aquaclear 50 Power Filter
2. Lee's The ultimate Gravel Vac 25' Kit
3. Whisper 10 Air Pump (Found in closet, didn't know I had it







)
4. Silicone Airline Tubing, 20 Feet
5. Floating Thermometer with Suction Cup
6. Seachem Prime Declorinator
7. 24" Versa-Top Glass Canopy
8. Glass Only Mag-Float Algae Scraper
9. API Freshwater Master Test Kit
10. Visi-Therm Heater 75W
11. Driftwood
12. CaribSea Instant Aquarium Freshwater Substrate Crystal River [grain sz. from 0.2mm to 0.5mm (is this a good size if having Cories?)]
13. Flourish Root Tabs
14. Freshwater Aquarium Salt
15. Air check 
16. Five gallon bucket (just for aquarium)
17. Fish Nets
18. Tetra Tropical Crisps Fish Food 
19. DIY Light Fixture with 4 10W Daylight Spiral CFL for 2WPG of light. 

Don't want to do CO2!!
Am I missing anything?? ideas on what plants that I can use in this setup? ideas on foreground, mid ground, back ground plants? 

Much Thanks,
Patty


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Sounds good to me.. The substrate should be fine for cories but I wouldnt use the salt if you get them as they can't tolerate it ^^


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## PattyCakes81 (Jul 4, 2010)

HolyAngel said:


> Sounds good to me.. The substrate should be fine for cories but I wouldnt use the salt if you get them as they can't tolerate it ^^


Thanks for tip about cories and salt. But I have the salt just in case of ich.

The substrate is it good for plants??

Patty


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## Optix (May 31, 2011)

...missing something??

yep, CO2


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## dwc13 (Dec 15, 2010)

I find a couple of 5G Homer buckets from Home Depot (or equivalent) really useful for lots of things aournd the aquarium including: 

waterchanges 
keeping aquarium plants and other items that have been removed while I'm doing maintenance/aquascaping in the tank 
draining water from a bag with new fish; a decent-sized net will span the top of the bucket, making it easy to pour the contents of the bag out
functioning as an emergency hospital tank
rinsing filter media in 
washing substrate and other items
functioning as a temporary storage / quarantine tank for plants (de-snail)
functioning as a holding tank for water allowing it to dechlorinate without adding chemicals 
transporting fish/plants on an across town move
keeping smaller fish temporarily when changing/doing major work on substrate


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Oh +1 on the 5gal buckets! I forgot about that, totally necessary!

And yeah the sand shouldn't be a problem for plants at all as long as the root tabs are always replaced when needed.


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## PattyCakes81 (Jul 4, 2010)

Optix said:


> ...missing something??
> 
> yep, CO2


I know. But even with low light plants?



dwc13 said:


> I find a couple of 5G Homer buckets from Home Depot (or equivalent) really useful for lots of things around the aquarium including:
> 
> waterchanges
> keeping aquarium plants and other items that have been removed while I'm doing maintenance/aquascaping in the tank
> ...


Oh forgot to list the 5 gallon buckets I got from Lowe's. Thanks for the tip though. 



HolyAngel said:


> Oh +1 on the 5gal buckets! I forgot about that, totally necessary!
> 
> And yeah the sand shouldn't be a problem for plants at all as long as the root tabs are always replaced when needed.


Okay. Will keep up on the root tabs!!


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

even tho your going low tech you will probably want some kind of ferst besides root tabs.
and btw "functioning as a holding tank for water allowing it to dechlorinate without adding chemicals" this is false. chlorine will break down over time, but chloramine wont.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

The air pump, tubing, and check valve are unnecessary, especially since you've got a HOB filter. You didn't mention fish - make sure you'll have an appropriate number for that size, and that they'll get along. And don't forget about a janitorial crew.

Foreground - dwarf sag, crypt parva, HM
Mid - could really be anything. More crypts?
Back - hygrophilas, ludwigias

Just picking basic, low-demand plants. There are a ton out there. Try the sticky on low-light plants in the plant forum.


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## dwc13 (Dec 15, 2010)

jreich said:


> even tho your going low tech you will probably want some kind of ferst besides root tabs.
> and btw "functioning as a holding tank for water allowing it to dechlorinate without adding chemicals" this is false. chlorine will break down over time, but chloramine wont.


 
I completely disagree with your assertion. Chloramine does break down over time, it just a lot longer to do so than chlorine. 



> http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/pages/publicationD.jsp?publicationId=777
> 
> The EPA has established a Maximum Residual Disinfectant Level (MRDL) for chloramines of 4 parts per million (ppm). This is the highest level of a disinfectant allowed in public drinking water. In Lincoln and Omaha, chloramines concentrations at the tap typically range from 0.5 to 2.3 ppm. *Chloramines break down naturally over time.* Therefore, the chloramines level can vary within either system and in water delivered at any given tap. In general, water delivered in portions of the distribution system closer to the treatment plant will contain chloramines in higher concentrations. Conversely, the chloramines concentration may be lower in water delivered farther from the treatment plant.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

dwc13 said:


> I completely disagree with your assertion. Chloramine does break down over time, it just a lot longer to do so than chlorine.


 sorry to jack your thread, but yes everything breaks down over time, but that is totally impractical, and you dont really know when the chloramine is totally broken down. Why not just spend $5 on a bottle of prime which will last you for 6+ months and call it a day. Nothing to worrie about that way, and you wont have to keep a closet full of buckets of watter while you wait for the chemicals to break down. From what i have read it takes over a week for chloramine to break down. Totally impractical for the quantity of water we need for a WC. Leaving your water to age is 80's style fish keeping, thats how it was done before people knew better, and before chloramine was being used in our water systems.


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## dwc13 (Dec 15, 2010)

OP - 

Does the Lee's gravel vac come with a hose that is considerably shorter than 25' (say, 5' to 6')? If not, you might want to go to Lowe's or Home Depot and buy a shorter length of tubing that will fit the gravel vac. I haven't used the Lee's gravel vac so I don't have firsthand knowledge as to how well it works, but I would think there are times you wouldn't want to deal with 25' of tubing -- like those occassions when it's just easier or more efficient to use a 5G bucket to collect the siphoned water rather than connecting the device to a faucet. I undestand why aquarists with larger aquariums would be interested in something like this (or the Python), but even on my 45H I'm only changing at most 2 5G buckets worth of water (excluding an emergency situation) so carrying buckets is no big deal.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

sorry to thread jack again, but there is no reason to buy a shorter length of hose because if its to long you can just cut the hose you already have then just reatach the connections.


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## dwc13 (Dec 15, 2010)

jreich said:


> sorry to jack your thread, but yes everything breaks down over time, but that is totally impractical, and you dont really know when the chloramine is totally broken down. Why not just spend $5 on a bottle of prime which will last you for 6+ months and call it a day. Nothing to worrie about that way, and you wont have to keep a closet full of buckets of watter while you wait for the chemicals to break down. From what i have read it takes over a week for chloramine to break down. Totally impractical for the quantity of water we need for a WC. Leaving your water to age is 80's style fish keeping, thats how it was done before people knew better, and before chloramine was being used in our water systems.


 

My original post indicated "dechlorinate", which means to remove _chlorine_ from. That hardly takes much time at all, especially when an airstone is being used. BTW. the correct term for removing (both parts of) _chloramine_ is "dechloramination". I didn't use that term in my original posting. 

You're 0-2. Want a shot at the hat trick?

As far as keeping water in buckets being totally impractical, don't tell that to the folks who years ago would have multiple barrels full of water being dechlorinated and conditioned for addition to their tanks at a later date. Some folks probably still use this method, as not everyone is in a hurry.


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## dwc13 (Dec 15, 2010)

jreich said:


> sorry to thread jack again, but there is no reason to buy a shorter length of hose because if its to long you can just cut the hose you already have then just reatach the connections.



Is there something in the water in Philly? 

Why would you cut the hose when you just might want the full 25' length sometimes but other times a shorter length is more suitable? 

0-3. Hattrick awarded.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

WOW, wuzent trying to argue with any one, just trying to give the most up to date, and widely accepted information. No reason to lash out like that. I'll just shut up now because it seems like anything i have to say is going to be torn apart. Some people just have a god complex i guess.


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## dwc13 (Dec 15, 2010)

kevmo911 said:


> You didn't mention fish - make sure you'll have an appropriate number for that size, and that they'll get along. And don't forget about a janitorial crew.


 
Good call on the janitorial crew. The Corys and Ottos in my tank work wonders at times.


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

you did forget some minor things.
surge protector(s), and timer(s).


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## PattyCakes81 (Jul 4, 2010)

jreich said:


> even tho your going low tech you will probably want some kind of ferst besides root tabs.
> and btw "functioning as a holding tank for water allowing it to dechlorinate without adding chemicals" this is false. chlorine will break down over time, but chloramine wont.


Thanks jreich! Besides the root tabs, should I get Flourish and Excel? Because Drs Foster and Smith have a "fundamentals plnat kit". *Fundamentals Kit* includes Flourish, Flourish Iron, and Flourish Excel for $11.69. Should I get this instead?



kevmo911 said:


> The air pump, tubing, and check valve are unnecessary, especially since you've got a HOB filter. You didn't mention fish - make sure you'll have an appropriate number for that size, and that they'll get along. And don't forget about a janitorial crew.
> 
> Foreground - dwarf sag, crypt parva, HM
> Mid - could really be anything. More crypts?
> ...


Thanks for your response kevmo! The air pump and air accessories are for a DIY Bio and sponge filter I want to have inside the Main Tank so it can be ready to use in the Hospital/QT tank if I needed. If this isn't practical, do you have any suggestions on how to have a backup seeded "filter" to use on my QT tank when the time arise?

I will be mostly contrating on small peaceful community fishes like:

Dwarf Gouramis
Celestial Pearl Danios
Platies (I know get all males or I'll have a "Platy Factory" :icon_lol 
Cardinal or Neon Tetras
Of course getting some Cories (love cories)
Red Cherry Shrimp
1 Nerite Snail

Thanks for the plant suggestions!! They are all very nice. I will go check out the low plant sticky.



dwc13 said:


> OP -
> 
> Does the Lee's gravel vac come with a hose that is considerably shorter than 25' (say, 5' to 6')? If not, you might want to go to Lowe's or Home Depot and buy a shorter length of tubing that will fit the gravel vac. I haven't used the Lee's gravel vac so I don't have firsthand knowledge as to how well it works, but I would think there are times you wouldn't want to deal with 25' of tubing -- like those occassions when it's just easier or more efficient to use a 5G bucket to collect the siphoned water rather than connecting the device to a faucet. I undestand why aquarists with larger aquariums would be interested in something like this (or the Python), but even on my 45H I'm only changing at most 2 5G buckets worth of water (excluding an emergency situation) so carrying buckets is no big deal.


Thanks dwc13 for all your tips!! The Lee's kit didn't come with a shorter hose. You do make a good and understandable point in getting a shorter hose as well. 



jreich said:


> you did forget some minor things.
> surge protector(s), and timer(s).


Oh! I did get GFCI surge protectors but I forgot about the timers for my lights!! Thanks for the reminder!!roud:


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

java fern, crypts, melon sword are all good choices for low light, low tech tanks. oh and anubias

as far as chlorine and chloramine go you are definitely covered with Prime.
"Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia."

I find that having a aquarium use only towel and washcloth comes in handy for drips, spills, splashes and wiping off the outside glass.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

dry ferts are generally cheaper than liquid. So I would look into those. Look into EI dosing that might help you out.


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## PattyCakes81 (Jul 4, 2010)

kamikazi said:


> java fern, crypts, melon sword are all good choices for low light, low tech tanks. oh and anubias
> 
> as far as chlorine and chloramine go you are definitely covered with Prime.
> "Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia."
> ...


Thanks for the tip on aquarium only towels and washcloths, kamikazi!! roud:



kamikazi said:


> dry ferts are generally cheaper than liquid. So I would look into those. Look into EI dosing that might help you out.


Thanks kamikazi!! I'll look into dry ferts and the EI method.roud:


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

+1 on the ei method. when you buy the pre made liquid ferts your paying mostly for water. All those liquid ferts will only last you a few months at best, but if you were willing to spend about 20 more bux you can have enough ferts to last you 1 - 2+ years. check out www.greenleafaquariums.com a fellow forum member owns that place, he is a really nice, and knowledgable person. He has some decent fert packages.


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## PattyCakes81 (Jul 4, 2010)

jreich said:


> +1 on the ei method. when you buy the pre made liquid ferts your paying mostly for water. All those liquid ferts will only last you a few months at best, but if you were willing to spend about 20 more bux you can have enough ferts to last you 1 - 2+ years. check out www.greenleafaquariums.com a fellow forum member owns that place, he is a really nice, and knowledgable person. He has some decent fert packages.


Thanks jreich! I guess am going with dry ferts! If going with dry ferts, do i still use the root tabs? But went to the site you recommended, I was like :help:!! All these different things to choose from I am stump.:eek5: What to choose?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

With CaribSea Instant Aquarium Freshwater Substrate the sag, crypt hygrophilas, don't need ferts. Ludwigia repens would need the Seachem flourish 5ml weekly. With low light you don't need to dose a lot. Thus liquid seems no more expensive than dry. Especially if you can get it on line without paying for shipping as is at LNT.com.


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## PattyCakes81 (Jul 4, 2010)

Hilde said:


> With CaribSea Instant Aquarium Freshwater Substrate the sag, crypt hygrophilas, don't need ferts. Ludwigia repens would need the Seachem flourish 5ml weekly. With low light you don't need to dose a lot. Thus liquid seems no more expensive than dry. Especially if you can get it on line without paying for shipping as is at LNT.com.


Thanks Hilde!! I did take chemistry in HS, but man did I get overwhelmed with all the ferts!! So getting excel is a no-no or should I get it?


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## Leah (Jun 28, 2011)

PattyCakes81 said:


> Thanks for your response kevmo! The air pump and air accessories are for a DIY Bio and sponge filter I want to have inside the Main Tank so it can be ready to use in the Hospital/QT tank if I needed. If this isn't practical, do you have any suggestions on how to have a backup seeded "filter" to use on my QT tank when the time arises?


Hi. From something that I read elsewhere on this site, I think that if you have the bio and sponge filter in the main tank that it will get seeded with bacteria in any case. The idea is that there is enough water circulation from main filter that the other media will also get fed. However, you would need the air pump for the QT in any case, right? Also, I have been told that it's good to run an air stone in your main tank. Don't know if that's true, however, and I note that those with more experience aren't telling you to do so!

Leah


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

PattyCakes81 said:


> So getting excel is a no-no or should I get it?


Oh, forgot about the excel, for I don't consider it a fert. Yes you need it. Beware there are some plants that are sensitive to it like Vals. Eser21 #7 posted- Vals melt when excel is suddenly introduced... just do 1/4 of recommended dose for a week then 1/2... then they will all be fine. Most people talk about melting when they use it for algae treatment at 2x the dose rate. Then vals and most grasses will react very badly


Leah said:


> You would need the air pump for the QT in any case, right?
> Been told that it's good to run an air stone in your main tank.


A QT is a good idea but any filter will work.
Only tanks I have seen that use an air stone are those that inject Co2.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

You can use a 5 gallon bucket as a QT tank, just pump a powerhead with sponge pre-filter on it for circulation and a little filtration.


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## PattyCakes81 (Jul 4, 2010)

Leah said:


> Hi. From something that I read elsewhere on this site, I think that if you have the bio and sponge filter in the main tank that it will get seeded with bacteria in any case. The idea is that there is enough water circulation from main filter that the other media will also get fed. However, you would need the air pump for the QT in any case, right? Also, I have been told that it's good to run an air stone in your main tank. Don't know if that's true, however, and I note that those with more experience aren't telling you to do so!
> 
> Leah


Thanks Leah for all your great points and tips!! :thumbsup:



Hilde said:


> Oh, forgot about the excel, for I don't consider it a fert. Yes you need it. Beware there are some plants that are sensitive to it like Vals. Eser21 #7 posted- Vals melt when excel is suddenly introduced... just do 1/4 of recommended dose for a week then 1/2... then they will all be fine. Most people talk about melting when they use it for algae treatment at 2x the dose rate. Then vals and most grasses will react very badly
> 
> A QT is a good idea but any filter will work.
> Only tanks I have seen that use an air stone are those that inject Co2.


Thanks Hilde!  

So yes on the excel, but introduce it slow if I have Vals. Thanks for finding the quote!! :thumbsup: 



kamikazi said:


> You can use a 5 gallon bucket as a QT tank, just pump a powerhead with sponge pre-filter on it for circulation and a little filtration.


Thanks for the tip kamikazi. I do have three 5 gallon buckets just for the tank. So I might use that as my QT and leave my 10 gallon for another tank!  Yeaaaaa! More Fishy!!


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## Leah (Jun 28, 2011)

Hilde said:


> Only tanks I have seen that use an air stone are those that inject Co2.


Thank you, Hilde! It was suggested by somebody who has to deal with lots of people who don't necessarily do everything else that they should with a tank and he has probably adopted it as a bit of an "insurance policy" for tanks.

Leah


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