# How many angelfish?



## leaird (Dec 17, 2010)

I am setting up a new planted tank and have my heart set on adding angelfish. There is just so much conflicting info online concerning angelfish and tank requirements. 

My tank is not typical in dimensions. It is 20"l x 18"w x 24" h. I know that the depth of tanks is often an issue with angels since they are so tall so they should really appreciate the 24" depth of my tank. The tank will be heavily planted. 

How many angelfish should I plan to keep in this tank? What other plant friendly fish would you recommend to go with my angelfish? Thanks for your recommendations.

I forgot to mention that my tank is 37 gallons.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

2 angels, 2 pandas, 2 otto's, 2 beta's (m/f) 
Noah's tank LOL

2 angels maximum and if it's your only tank I'd hope for two males. (less drama)


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## leaird (Dec 17, 2010)

wkndracer said:


> 2 angels, 2 pandas, 2 otto's, 2 beta's (m/f)
> Noah's tank LOL
> 
> I didn't think a male and female beta could share the same tank without killing each other.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

leaird said:


> wkndracer said:
> 
> 
> > 2 angels, 2 pandas, 2 otto's, 2 beta's (m/f)
> ...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You are correct that domesticated male and female betta splendens should not be house together. The exception would be in very large (55gal+), very heavily planted where they could escape from each other. In the wild, they have much more space to get away from each other when needed. Breeders do not house males and females together, and introducing females to males for spawning is tricky business.

I personally wouldn't keep an Angelfish in a tank smaller than a 55gal, either. Adult angels are very large fish overall (not just tall) and would benefit from more swimming room.


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## snafuspyramid (May 27, 2010)

For adult angels, swimming room isn't so much of an issue; they tend to revert to being lazy, lurking predators in their later years and seem quite happy in a tank absolutely clogged with vegetation.

But before you make any decisions regarding angelfish numbers it might be wise to attempt to track down a picture (or better still, a real) full sized angelfish. You need to see one to really appreciate their potential full size.

However, 37 gallons would be good for a pair. I've personally had great luck keeping angelfish in pairs, but it can be a bit of a gamble with their temperaments.

Certainly no more than 2 angels though. I very much like this stocking calculator: aqadviser.com.au


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> You are correct that domesticated male and female betta splendens should not be house together.


I guess I've been luckier than I'll ever know. Males don't mix I know but have never in 30+ yrs. kept them as a single fish. Every tank that contained Betta have always been a male and one or two females. Overfeeding and potbelly fatties not fighting are what always killed these fish in myhouse. 

how weird


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> 2 angels maximum and *if it's your only tank I'd hope for two males*. (less drama)


Males don't false spawn and get as territorial as females. Without more room if the angels pair and spawn it would be a bad day for any other fish in that tank. Good size for a breeder tank though if your equiped to handle the young when they arrive.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Didn't realize that he was talking about splendens... sorry.


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## leaird (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will stick with 2 angelfish. I will add in some ottos and panda cory's. I would like to add a colorful schooling fish. I need something larger than neons so they don't become dinner for the angels. I am wondering if cardinals would be left alone if the go in the tank at the same time as the juevenile angels. If not, what are some other compatible (& colorful) choices? I'm taking suggestions.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

leaird said:


> wkndracer said:
> 
> 
> > 2 angels, 2 pandas, 2 otto's, 2 beta's (m/f)
> ...


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Betta Maniac said:


> leaird said:
> 
> 
> > Depends on the betta. No problem for most species, but with splendens, it's a gamble. Sometimes a pair will get on fine, sometimes they'll rip each other appart . . . I wouldn't do it.
> ...


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

wkndracer said:


> Betta Maniac said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing to me that this is the most popular opinion on these fish.
> ...


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Yeah, I get that reading the posts. Just surprized I didn't have the problems because I usually have *everything* go wrong before it all works out.


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## leaird (Dec 17, 2010)

I have received even more conflicting information. You've gotta love the internet! I contacted an angelfish breeder online who suggested that I keep only angelfish in my tank. Here is his response when asked what other peaceful companions could be added to the tank: "None, too many diseases and problems from other fish. They are more suited to be a one species tank." I googled this to see what I could find and came across an article that said the same thing with the exception of possibly adding a few corys for cleanup -- and nothing else. The angelfish breeder suggested 4 angels max in my 37 gallon tank if they are the only species in the tank. So, what do you all say to this?


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I think some people are “specist” about their species of choice if you know what I mean. I think it’s normal for the tank to revolve around the “show” species, but unless the show species will eat (or be eaten by) its tankmates, I don’t get why they must be maintained alone. 

And give how large angels can get, I’d agree that a pair is all this tank can hold, regardless of who they’re sharing it with.


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## g01ngog (Dec 30, 2010)

I would keep angelfish as a species tank or if you have other fish, have them be the same size as the angels. Eventually as angelfish get older they'll start picking up the smaller fish. 

That happened to me, in my 120 gallon. I had 4-5 angels in there with a school of cardinals. Eventually the angels bullied/ate the cardinals.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

leaird said:


> I have received even more conflicting information. You've gotta love the internet! I contacted an angelfish breeder online who suggested that I keep only angelfish in my tank. Here is his response when asked what other peaceful companions could be added to the tank: "None, too many diseases and problems from other fish. They are more suited to be a one species tank." I googled this to see what I could find and came across an article that said the same thing with the exception of possibly adding a few corys for cleanup -- and nothing else. The angelfish breeder suggested *4 angels max in my 37 gallon tank* if they are the only species in the tank. So, what do you all say to this?


4 adult angels is insane with any tank smaller than a standard 55g.
Can it be done with daily water changes and other considerations? Sure
(imo) 1/15g is what I try to keep. More and I have fights unless I sex the tanks. Even then with false spawns females get testy and fight for the tank space, it can be a mess.

All web posts are opinions:icon_roll


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## leaird (Dec 17, 2010)

All web posts are opinions:icon_roll[/QUOTE]

Exactly! I am just polling those with experience behind them. I am brand new to planted tanks and angelfish so I have lots to learn. I figure I will be able to find a general concensus from the replies. So far, it is looking like most people agree that 2 angelfish is all I should get. Without doing this kind of research, I would be at the mercy of the worker at the pet shop. Maybe even the one who recommended a black ghost knife for my community tank. My 50+ fish gradually disappeared until the only fish left in the tank was the black ghost knife. Live and learn! Plus, so many articles just tell you a quantity to buy in order to make the fish happy or to make a nice school without even mentioning the tank requirements. Can you imagine if I listened to that advice and added 6 to 8 angelfish in my tank? What a disaster! I am really trying hard to do my homework before buying any fish.


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## ceiji (Nov 14, 2010)

I started my 35g hex with 9 baby angels (yeah i know too many).. i waited till they paired off to separate them. man its so tensed community when you have pair angels ready to spawn..everyone else is on the receiving end no matter small or large fish. my pairs would peck and drive off even large pleco..

once paired you cannot put any other fish with them. it gets even worse when the eggs hatch. I had CPDs, pleco, cories, cherry barbs, rummy nose, gouramies, ottos , betta all in my 75g along with my pair of angels. but once they spawned, i had to move my angels to a separate tank. 

as long as you dont plan to breed, angels are okay in community tank. They dont bother anyone else as long as not mistaken for food. btw anything small than their mouth size becomes snack for them  guarantee..I never had any problems with angels in my community tank, even with slow swimmers. 

if you are getting juvi angels, its hard to sex them (but there are people who can tell juvi gender by just looking). and chances of them pairing up are real low. i'd suggest go ahead with 2 angels and just wait n watch whether they pair off.. good luck..


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Op, I'm not busting on you for gathering information. If my post sounds that way I'm sorry. I'll tell you I don't believe anyone can sex juveniles. Without the tubes dropped it's guess work. The most expensive pair I have formed when a breeder (very good one) pulled what she was sure were two females as she wanted to delay a young fish from spawning. They spawned in the isolation tank :icon_eek:. But turned out to be parent raisers. (lucky for me)

Are you wanting to spawn the fish or just keep them in a hobby/display tank? Makes a difference on what you do, that's all based on where you want to go.


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## leaird (Dec 17, 2010)

Oh, no. I didn't think you were giving me a hard time. I was simply agreeing with you that all the posts are indeed just opinions. I was just mentioning that I think gathering a lot of opinions from experienced fishkeepers is much more valuable than articles on the subject. I have absolutely no intentions of breeding angelfish. The tank is in my living room and its only purpose is to be beautiful.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If you're absolutely set on angels I'd go with just one.

Your chances aren't good of ending up with a mated pair with just 2, and if you don't end up with a mated pair, you don't have enough room for 2 such territoral fish in your tank. You don't really have room to start off with a group of juvies and let them pair off naturally, either... they'd outgrow your tank long before hitting sexual maturity.

Subdominant cichlids usually don't have happy lives if there's not room in a tank for them to get away and hide from a dominant fish.

Is it possible that it could work? Sure, anything is possible. I'm sure that there are people who have had it work for them. At least... for a while.

But I'm going to base my advice on what is most likely to happen, in order to give you the best chance of long-term success and have the happiest, healthiest fish.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

I REALLY looked at my tanks tonight and took inventory.
Species specific is pretty much what they've become. While I've always kept angels in the the tanks now they dominate every one and have for quite awhile. Couple of remaining larger tetra and every one else is either algae related or a clean up crew member. 
9 clown loaches - used once upon a time for snail control
5 Kuhli loaches
3 Gold Dojo loaches
12 Panda cory
30-40 (estimated) Ottto's
2 SAE
6 breeding age LFABN 2M,4F
300+ baby LFABN
Angel fish are primary in every tank except the 2 BN baby tanks and the quarantine containing new Harbrosus and Pygmy Cory due to be released into other tanks soon because their quarantine will be up in another week. 30 day's without a loss and looking healthy I'm ready to introduce these new fry safe cleaners into my breeding tanks.

I don't think I've seen a happy angel kept as a single. One of my quarantine tanks is next to a community tank. When I isolate fish in it I use a cardboard divider between it and the other tank or the loner never stops rubbing the glass at the end of the tank.
Your not wanting to breed which most of the posts have dealt with trying to explain how to do. How to find a pair without running out of room first. Without room to raise a spawn a pair would be a PITA every 10 days to 2 weeks. Again I'll say two males would have a very high chance of making for a good load on this size tank. If the fish are acquired locally from a decent supplier and if they mature as a pair or if one is too aggressive swapping fish shouldn't be a problem. I have 8 adult males with only 2 females in a 110g tank, no problems. 7 females, 2 pre-adult and 5 adult in a 75g tank (PITA) at least once a month. 6 adult males in a 55g 99.9% problem free and what bumping I see is very minor. 

The remaining tanks are used right now for growing out 6 different groups. Only one 55g breeder tank (I use 55g standards for parent raisers) has a pair in it right now. The only reason they stayed private as crowded as I am right now is because they are new and very expensive/special fish. (to my wallet anyway)

I would do two and try for males that's 1fish/15gal. If you end up with a butt head fish trade him out. It's not unheard of in the local trade.

You want angels,,, I'd put 'em in the tank :biggrin: That's my opinion.


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