# esarkipato's 29g Setup (56K warning)



## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Wow, what a great job at the divider! I hope you can keep that setup that way. Were you planning on keeping it an open space where the sand is or were you going to plant a foreground (hint hint...hairgrass )? Sorry to hear about the Rams. Given some time, this is going to be a good one!


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The key to using Flourite is washing it before you put it in the tank. The first time I used Flourite I had the Flourite cloud in the tank. I then set out to find a better way to wash Flourite so you could use it right away.

That method is to use a paint strainer. I cover the details in my Guide.


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## kam (Nov 15, 2005)

hope you get more Rams...they look nice in planted tanks


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Hey all, well the tank has been growing in and "cycling" for a few weeks. No more deaths, so that's good and today I've added 2 rosy barbs from my other tank. I'm hoping they will pick on some algae I've got in there.

  

Gonna wait a few more weeks before looking for new rams!


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Still haven't purchased RAMS, since I keep having random deaths in the tank. A raspora here, a tetra there, I'm just not comfortable with it yet. I did get a couple corydorus, though. Here's an out-of-date update, on 12/30:

I kind of needed to start planting the sand, as there is a healthy amount of algae (green, slimy) growing on it.


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

This is the first time I've see sand and flourite together. Did you silicone the plexi? I am starting a 20 gallon. I know that the sand would be better for my panda cory's, the clown loach I want to buy (rid my snails damn it!) and the clown pleco I have. Maybe this would be a solution - since I'm not fond of the orange substrate anyway.

Does it stay divided like that without much work?


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

your tank looks beautifull esark.. Keep the pics a commin


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Thanks for the response y'all. awwwww, shuks your too kind. If you only saw the algae now . . (20 days since picture!)

julesann, I did not silicone the plexi. I figured the weight of the substrates would keep the dividers in place. As far as staying divided . . . i guess it depends on how picky you are. there are probably 30 peices of fluorite that are scattered on the sand, and the border where they meet is blurring more and more all the time. I am almost SURE that a setup like this is not feasable over years of time, but thought i'd try it anyways.

if you DO try it, make sure that you put more sand in than fluorite. I mean, make the DEPTH of the sand greater than that of fluorite. ideally they would be equal, but err on the side of more sand. Otherwise the fluorite would storm the beach, as it were


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## Wilder (Jan 21, 2006)

Lovely tank!

Did you make that divider, or were you able to purchase it somewhere?


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## julesann (Sep 28, 2005)

Yipes - the perfectionist in me is starting to panic at the thought of a few rogue chips of substrate messing up my sand!  Thanks for the advice!


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Wilder said:


> Did you make that divider, or were you able to purchase it somewhere?


I made it. Just cut some plastic to about 1.5", then added the taller pieces just for filling. I tied the two pieces together with a twistie.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

looks nice!

i just redid my 10g went the whole way with rewashing substate to get copper out and stuff and bought a few guppies. then they started dieing. then when i wake up the next day all the guppies and 3 shrimp look really bad. i decide i should test for amonia! when i did it was off the charts! so i took rashinal action. i moved the shrimps and fish to my 55g. and added a good sized cup of the substraight from the 55g to the 10g. 3 days later amonia reads 0. and this was a planted tank. i thought i didnt need to worry about "cycling" because plants are loaded up with benifical bacteria? well maybe thats usually the case.

maybe the same thing has happened to you:icon_cry: check your amonia lvls.

hopefully you will pull thru!

-=- fish newb -=-


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Okay, I've got some pretty bad algae in this tank. 

A picture 2 weeks after the previous pic:








I added a cave to the left, with driftwood/java fern laying on top of it. There is very long, green, stringy algae growing on EVERYTHING, including the glass. Not to mention the green algae now covering the sand.

After a good scraping and some more growth:








I'm just kind of letting the plants and algae fight it out! I plan on introducing some shrimp soon, and maybe more otos.

I also added 3 new Blue Rams! They seem healthy, but I hardly ever see them through all those plants!


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Just a little update on the Rams . . . . been a while since last post here! A pair formed immediately (even though they look very young), and they spawned once, seriously only a week or two after I got them. Ate the eggs. Spawned twice, ate the eggs again. i'm planning on removing as many fish as possible exept the rams, maybe that will help the process.

The sandy foreground is still planted with ambulia, I keep it pretty well trimmed. thinking about ripping it out, and cleaning up the sand for that open foreground look. It's amazing how bright that stuff was to begin with, and how dirty and "earthy" it looks now!


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Looks awesome....love the white sand :eek5: 
Can't wait to see this tank when it's fully mature. :thumbsup:


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

UPdate for this tank is looooong overdue. PRobably because.........

Not much has changed, in the way of plants, fish, or anything else! I ended up getting in the habit of PWC's every couple of weeks (months!), and little to no dosing. It stayed relatively algae-free thanks to my two otos and two cories (no extra bits of food).

Also it's been stable enough to keep my two blue rams healthy, which was my main concern. I attribute this to peat in the filter, which in turn kept the water relatively yellow.










IF you are interested in any of the dark crpyts in the background, check the swap n' shop section! :thumbsup:


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Well last night the tank was replanted, and unfortunately I was in a hurry. All equipment was switched out, to go high-tech. The plan for now is to let the stems grow, take cuttings, replant, rescape, etc. Then get HM and/or Marselia going in the front/foreground.

The hardware is now:

-2x55w PC lighting (Hamilton lights)
-RENA filstar XP3 (turned down...waaaay down)
-10lb CO2 w/ Milwaukee MA957 Regulator
-microbubble diffuser running into the XP3 as a co2 "reactor"
-Substrate is still 50/50 fluorite and pool filter sand
-EI will probably be the starting point for dosing, with an attempt to keep nitrates down and iron/po4 in abundance.

Please, please comment and make suggestions (besides getting a new camera! lol )


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## conduct (Mar 25, 2005)

Wow major replanting here. But in due time the tank will take off again. I need to find someone that was narrow java though very interested in getting some to try out. Your moss looked real healthy on the previous setup. Looks like the ram might be a little confused wondering where did all my hiding places go? Looks like you had real good setup going when low-tech. Good luck with the high-tech setup I am sure it will turn out wonderful.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Received a great, huge package from Betowess of Marselia. Really cool plant -- definitely called for a re-arranging. Now things will sit and grow out for a while!

:icon_redf Apologies again for crappy picture quality...I need something a little better than a Kodak Easyshare  










This is the angle of the tank as you walk by (it's very low to the ground)










And a little close-up of the new marselia!










Let me have it: Criticisms are very welcome. Especially regarding the plant placements....I'm not sure what to do with the back left corner, near the filter intake and behind the wood/anubias. Currently some Ammania Gracilus and Eichhornia azurea are there, which will both be way to big for this tank.

Thanks for looking :hihi:


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Hey! 

Very interesting tank Ernie! 

I like the idea of doing a sandy beach front with a rich substrate in the back. I have yet to try one but from what I have seen most people do is put rocks and drift wood on the border to keep the differnt subs. on there own side of the tracks. 

The best way to really keep the sand clean is to have something move it around. Maybe a Kuhli Loach or two?

What do you have going on for your ferts? CO2 ppm? 

My only idea for you in terms of plants is maybe some strong vertical lines in the back. I think when you plants grow out a bit it will give you that feel but right now its not that strong.

Sorry I don't have much to say right now. I am lacking a bit of focus in terms of scaping. My tank is a bit of a mess and this weekend I need to do some serous work on the work tanks.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Hey Doug, Thanks for the reply/thoughts.

i've tried to seperate the sand/fluorite with several methods. So far, nothing I do keeps those little clay chips off the sand. Every few months I take a regular ol' fish net and scoop up a layer on top, shake the sand out, and put the fluorite back where it belongs. Works OK.

I do have 2 cories in this tank....and in my 10g I have 3 khulis. Maybe I will move them in here - good suggestion.

for now I'm going back to EI for dosing. 
*macros:* 1/8 tspn KNO3, 1/4 tspn K2SO4, target=1.5ppm KH2PO4. 3 times a week
*micros:* 1/8 tspn CSM+B+Fe, along with sporadic "Leaf Zone" ferts. 3 x week.
Weekly 50% water changes.

CO2: I don't trust pH/KH kits. Mine say I've got about 10 ppm, but it's pressurized 1 bubble/second into a microbubble diffuser, then into my xp3 intake. I know that I've got way more than 10 ppm!

Thanks for the scaping advice. Hopefully the patch of Micranthemum umbrosum (which you can't see) will help that out!


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Ernie, 

Here are some links for you to check out.

This one gives you a pretty good idea of what and how much for EI. I am going pretty close to the 40-60 with my 40G. I am going a little lighter on the Nitrates and higher with the other two macros. 
Barr Report - EI "light" for the less techical aspects of the Estimative index

Other than this tank being pretty sweet it also shows a nice sand to gravel separation.
75 gallon open forground - Aquatic Plant Central- aquascaping...a living art

Have a good one! I have to go get some books! Then go to work!


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

A little update.








Some good growth, but definitely some algae. Below is a close-up of some of hte Marselia/L. 'cuba':

The (brush?) algae is growing on ALL of the older leaves, just about all the species. There is also some algae (probably both GSA and GDA) on the glass.

I could really use some advice on 1) what causes the brush algae? and 2) how can I eradicate it?

Thanks for looking...


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Looks great. I have noticed that many who have used Marselia in the foreground, myself included, end up ripping it out....lol I thank most people rip out their foregroound a million times over come to think of it.
Anyway the growth and plant composition has really undergone some great changes. Nice job.
How about a clump of C. balansae in the back left corner?


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Hey Ernie - first time I'm making time to check out your thread. Looks like you do that that planted tank bug happening. What seems like a great idea one month, grows old two months later . Been there for several years myself!

The plant growth looks like it's doing quite well. Can't quite tell from the photo, but the 'brush' algae looks more like a hair/staghorn than BBA to me. I've got extensive experience with BBA  , but none with the others, so not much help there. As to GSA...up the PO4 !

Looks like you have A. reineckii in the back right corner. IME, that plant grows somewhat slot, so I'd recommend swapping places with that and the green plant in front of it.

As to the back left, if you want to go w/ C. balansae, I'm working on getting rid of mine. I've decided, in my tank, it grows too long and not as dense as I'd like. I'd be willing to trade you some for some of the P. stellatus (I think that's the tall plants in the back middle). Or, I could offer up some L. aromatica. Looks somewhat similar to P. stellatus, so you might prefer to find more of a contrasting plant. I could also offer up quite a chunk of mature C. wendtii "bronze" if that has any appeal. LMK via PM .

Enjoy!
Brian.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Ernie, 

Nice batch of color and leaf sizes and shapes. It looks like you have had some pretty good growth since the last picture. 

As for the algae:

What is your CO2 at? I tend to over do mine running it at about 50ppm for a night time target. This might help. Also stated earlier is upping the PO4. Last is remove what you can and do a over dose of Flourish Excel. I have had it kill of hair algea in a mater of a coupld days.

Thanks for the update!

Doug

PS are you going to the Grand Valley Auction in Oct.? I am going to try and be there if my homework life isn't too crazy. Right now it is too crazy and I am going to really be a bald man when its over!


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

*fresh_newby*: YOu are right.......proof is in the pictures --










I did a trim/replant yesterday which included thinning/replanting the marselia. It's a cool plant, but we'll see how long I keep it up :icon_roll

Here's the overall shot:










*BSS*: Thanks for taking the time, better late than never. And yea, my "good ideas" only really last a couple weeks typically. But honestly, that's probably what keeps me in the hobby is the constant growth/changing. AS for the PO4, I dose 3x week, first 8ml of my mix (4ml=1ppm), then another two 4ml doses during the week. I suppose I could up that? As for the A. reineckii....I think I will probably just get rid of it. THe lower leaves fall off incessantly....and the aerial roots!!!!

I would definitely appreciate a trade for some C. 'balansae'. But....the plant in the middle is Ludwigia 'cuba'. PM sent!

*Wingsdlc*: thanks Doug. CO2....I don't really trust my pH test kit. I'm still experimenting with ways of delivering the carbon to the plants. Currrently I just use the microbubble diffuser and let them hit the spraybar outlet, and blow around the tank. A picture (don't mind Ruby...she's just real hungry...):










You see the tiny bubbles behind her.

I could up the bubble count but it's already at roughly 2bps (29g tank!). Speaking of which.....is this cylinder about to go? The left gauge is very low.....and the right gauge is quite high:










OKAY, last shot here.....one stem of my new favorite plant...Ludwigia 'Cuba'. THis one grows really well for me....but again "hair" algae on lower leaves.:


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

Looks nice, keep up the good work. Hope to run into you at the Oct show.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Hey!

I think when my tank went empty both gadges were dead. It was a while ago so I don't really remember. Will have to get back to you in about 6 months when it happens again!

I am with you on the algae issues. I have similar stuff in my tank right now. I just popped up the past couple of days. I am not 100% sure what it is either. Maybe BBA?

This is what I have done in my tank: 
Added 9 shrimp; combo of Amano and some of your CRS, 
daily doses of excel, 
upped Co2, 
cut back on feeding. 

I think the feeding and addition of new fish brought it on. I will keep you posted if it works for me or not. 

Over all your tank looks pretty good. What is the plant in the front left?


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Hey Doug. I definitely suspect a carbon shortage for the algae issues. I just CAN'T justify buying excel, when I have such a cheap carbon source right here . I should really get some amanos...but they are $$! (you are starting to see my motivations).

I recently added 8 glowlight tetras, and 3 more baby cories. hopefully these will help eat the food I put in, I was severely understocked for a while there.

The front left corner.......the foreground is marselia, just thinned out and replanted (see the close-up, first photo). Behind that is Blyxa Japonica. there is actually a TINY little plant called Rotala sp. 'mini', it's only 3-5 mm wide!!


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

The replant looks great


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

esarkipato said:


> I could up the bubble count but it's already at roughly 2bps (29g tank!). Speaking of which.....is this cylinder about to go? The left gauge is very low.....and the right gauge is quite high:


Looking nice Earnie! Don't risk a mini pH crash. I'd get that tank refilled soon. Maybe try upping the CO2 and watching the fish on those algaes. I have an old nemesis of a red algae recurring with my new AS. I'm going to try that myself, albeit slowly - to watch the fish.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Fresh_Newby, thanks a lot! Every replant is a learning experience. I'm jsut trying to get it looking PRIMO for our halloween party :hihi:

Betowess, I appreciate the advice. The tank is now filled and kickin'. $10 for a 5 lb tank. I think I am going to try an inline reactor soon....and maybe try splitting the co2 for microbubbles as well. There are now (lemme think...) 6 otos in there. I would like to get some amanos but there are none locally and when there are they are like $5 a pop.  No SAE's either :icon_cry:


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

So I take it your tank did run dry. How long did yours last you? I get out 6 months out of mine. I figure thats not back concidering it is way less work than DIY co2. 

Blyxa Japonica... where did you get your hands on this? I really like that plant but I have never seen it on our list at work. 

Our Amanos are 4.50 at my work (MVPets). Pretty pricey. Good thing I work there and get a cut on the cost. I would still worry about the Amanos with that angle in the tank though. I would think they couuld take down a few and that would be $$$$!

I understand the excel price thing too. I only normaly use it for my low tech tanks. My sword digs it. It is nice to have around for algae issues though.

Might catch up with you at the Auction if you are going....

Most places you can ask them to oder fish in for you. I know my bosses will do it in most cases.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

OK, I've got a sneaking suspicion of some nutrient deficiency or abundancy....and I really want to get to the root of them. here are the symptoms:

-Algae growth occurs on older leaves. See this picture from page one, particularly the older leaves on the L. 'cuba'. That stuff looks more like staghorn/hair algae. If the older leaves don't get this algae, they just kind of shrivel up and fall off! (R. Macranda, Alt. Reineckki)
-Algae also on the glass, some spot algae/dust algae but it looks now like it also grows in very short strands....
-Algae on the wood and java fern aerial roots, some older leaves of marselia. This stuff looks like BBA.  
-Newer leaves sometimes look yellow, or at least lack color. Mostly found in the Ludwigia glandulosa, so it could be getting shaded.

I am starting to suspect that my dosing is off, as well as a low CO2.

DAY1: 50% WC, 1/4TSPN KNO3, 1/2TSPN K2SO4, 1TSPN MGSO4, 8 ML PO4 solution (should be 2ppm)
DAY2: 1/8 TSPN CSM+B (_I dissolve it into solution each time_)
DAY3: 1/8 TSPN KNO3, 1/8 TSPN K2SO4, 6 ML PO4 (1.5 ppm)
DAY4: 1/8 TSPN CSM+B
DAY5: 1/8 TSPN KNO3, 1/8 TSPN K2SO4, 6 ML PO4 (1.5 ppm)
DAY6: 1/8 TSPN CSM+B
DAY7: REST (lol)

Here are my speculations: This may be too much CSM+B. For a 29g tank, should it be more like 1/16 TSPN? I've read that too much of this stuff can cause algae.

Do I dose too much PO4?

Is CSM+B low in Iron? This is what I suspect is the source of discolored new leaves. According to Watson's page...it contains 7.0% Iron (Fe - cheleted). Should I order some pure Iron Chelate and add that in? Remember that I do have fluorite....that has some iron in it I thought.

As for co2....I am starting to think that to fight algae, dissolved co2 would be better. Any opinions...should I switch from microbubble-mania to an inline diffuser? Or is there a 'surer' way to get dissolved co2....aquamedic or something?

Thanks for any help, as I try to achieve an algae-free tank (aaaaah, the constant struggle :icon_roll )


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

This info was taken from: EI light: for those less techy folks - Barr Report

20-40 Gallon Aquariums
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week (7.8 ppm N, 4.93 ppm K)
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (2.28 ppm P)
+/- 1/16 tsp K2S04 3x a week (1.47 ppm K)
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

Above is what the site suggest for your tank. Below is what it suggest for mine (I added all the PPM from Chucks Calculator). I am running a bit light on my KNO3, heavy on the KH2PO4, and dosing Fe with the Micros. 

I don't think you are running too heavy on the P. According to EI, P does not cause algae issues. The one thing I see your not dosing is K2SO4. It probably wouldn't hurt to start this. That might be where the yellow leaves are coming from. I know KNO3 has it but your plants might want more of it. A little more iron might not hurt. I know Flourish has it in it and so does the Flourite that I am also using but I wanted to see what would happen if I gave a little extra. I don't think it hurts but I don't know if it really helps much. 

40-60 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week (11.37 ppm N, 7.69 ppm K )
+/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (2.87 ppm P)
+/- 1/8 tsp K2S04 3x a week (2.32 ppm K)
+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week (using Flourish, and Flourish Iron)
50% weekly water change

As for the best way to get CO2 into your tank I am not sure. I am using a Glass Diffuser right now. CO2 Glass Diffuser It seems to work pretty well. I think the main difference from what I am doing to what you are doing is the filter output. I have mine just jetting out without a spray bar. Then I have the Glass Diffuser under it so it catches all the bubbles. Does your spray bar catch most of the bubbles to push them around the tank?

What size filter are you running on this tank? What is your fish load like? How often do you feed? Whats your light cycle at? How much N do you have before the water change? 

When trying to figure out the cause make sure you only mess with maybe one or two things at a time to see if it helps or hinders. If you mess with too much at once then it is hard to track what is helping or hurting.

Best wishes... I know aglae is sucks!


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## Y0uH0 (Dec 19, 2005)

I love the assortment of colours and the look of the white sand. Looking great!


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Thanks, Derrick. Just tryin' to grow some colorful weeds!

Wingsdlc, thanks for the helps. 

Yea, the co2 tank went dry after roughly 9 months. It's a 5 lb tank, not a 10 lb as I previously/incorrectly stated. AS for the Blyxa...I got that from.....BSS (thanks Brian). I keep seeing photos of this plant getting HUGE....so I will definitely have some for trade or whatever not too long from now!

I am dosing K2SO4! Actually, way too much according to the EI schedules above!
DAY1: 50% WC, 1/4TSPN KNO3, *1/2TSPN K2SO4*, 1TSPN MGSO4, 8 ML PO4 solution (should be 2ppm)

For the CO2, I think I'll take a double approach. I'm going to build a venturi internal reactor using a powerhead, and also probably use the microbubble diffuser below the spraybar of the filter.

The filter, by the way is an XP3..... It's way to big, and I love it!

Fish load is now 9 glowlight tetras, 4 black neons, 1 angel, 5 cories, 6 otos. I think that's it, probably feed 'em 5 times a week.

Nitrates on saturday @ WC were around 10. I think I am going to cut the nitrates way down, estimate it to about 1/16 of a teaspoon 3x a week.

Light cycle is about 12 hours --??-- I will have to check that. I know it could be less....110 watts over 29g is quite a bit....

For now....I plan on reducing nitrates (that won't affect algae much, I don't think) and also try to increase co2 by using the new reactor. 

Also, I just noticed that I'm probably overdosing on my micros. That could easily cause the algaes too. Maybe I'll reduce those, but like you said Doug one thing at a time!


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

It sounds like we are running very similar systems. One difference is lighting. You are running almost 4wpg all day while I am running about 3wpg all day with a second light kicking it up to 6.5wpg for about an hour.

Keep us posted to see what your changes do. It might take a while before you actualy see a change. (few weeks or more?).

Are you going to the auction this Sat?


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Long time since updates. Pictures to come later 2nite, hopefully. First an update on the tank's troubles:

Since last post I've tried several co2 diffusion methods, but couldn't get the microbubbler and the internal reactor working at the same time (need a better manifold-not plastic ). Right now I am using the Red Sea 500, 'cause I got a good deal on it. CO2 diffusion seems very good.

I've also started to pre-mix my CSM+b+fe. I can get the mixture later if there's interest. I think this helps, since that stuff is very *heterogeneous*, as in lots of different particle shapes/sizes/colors/etc. By mixing larger amounts together you probably get a closer representative to what the mix is actually composed of.

To follow up on old issues:
_-Algae growth occurs on older leaves. See this picture from page one, particularly the older leaves on the L. 'cuba'. That stuff looks more like staghorn/hair algae. If the older leaves don't get this algae, they just kind of shrivel up and fall off! (R. Macranda, Alt. Reineckki)_This is still occuring, and the hairy/staghorn algae tends to grow on most plants, esp. java fern's older leaves. Male Flagfish keeps it trimmed up nice though.

_-Algae also on the glass, some spot algae/dust algae but it looks now like it also grows in very short strands...._Haven't noticed the short hair algae lately, very little spot algae. Keeping up the PO4 dosing!

_-Algae on the wood and java fern aerial roots, some older leaves of marselia. This stuff looks like BBA._Lots of BBA these days. Pictures to follow, especially on the Marselia. Not sure of cause. I might suggest that when a lighting period is too long, the plants might stop out-competing algae for nutrients. Cause could be that the water contains far less co2 at the end of the day than, say, in the middle. My first attempt at a solution to this problem will be to reduce lighting period. 12 hours seems way to long anyways.

_-Newer leaves sometimes look yellow, or at least lack color. Mostly found in the Ludwigia glandulosa, so it could be getting shaded._Suspect this is due to shading, and some Iron deficiency. My hope that the pre-mixed CSM+B+Fe will help distribute more iron more regularly, and I need to keep up the trimming :hihi:

Now for a question: what are the effects that an old/aging compact fluorescent bulb might have on plant/algae growth? I think my bulbs are about 1 year old each, so it may be time to replace. I'm wondering if a weakened intensity may actually cause some algae problems....one way or another?


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

A full tank shot: M. Umbrosum soaks up all the light. How can I make the contrast/brightness of this photo even out? Using Photoshop?








Close up of the MArselia, w/ BBA. It grows like a weed on older clovers, and it would take hours to pick out the leaves individually. I need to nip this thing in the bud.








Gratuitous shot of the Micr. Umbrosum. Pretty healthy!








A different view of the whole tank.









Looking at these pictures.....I'm starting to think there's too much java fern! Plus, I suspect some of the algae issues stem from the old (3 years) driftwood.


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## Subotaj (Oct 16, 2006)

very nice one.
i like it.


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## AquaGhost (Sep 29, 2006)

Beautiful tank! I really like the red plants you have!


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Subotaj thanks for the compliment!

AquaGhost, appreciate the encouragement. The top leaves of the redder plants look good....but the lower ones are very unsightly. All the lower leaves (excepting the top couple) get algae, curl up, or fall off!!! It's really frustrating and I have no clue why this happens. ANd that's on top of my BBA infestation!! I guess this goes to say looks can be deceiving!!


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Ernie,

Hey! Your Dad talked about you a bit in church today and it make me think of checking out your thread again.

Nice new pictures! All the plants look like they are growing rather well for you.

What is the read plant in the lower left? 

The clover makes a pretty nice carpet. I hope it takes off for me too! Mine isn't grown sand though so it might have a harder time spreading. 


As for the algae issues... are you keeing up on all your ferts and water changes? The older bulbs might be causing some issues. I think the spectrum shifts after about a year which means it coud shift to a spectrum uses easier by algae. 

Are you plants still growing well? 
Do you think the Phospherus is helping take care of the Green Spot? If so what PPM are you dosing? 

Right now my tank is pretty much algae free except for the GS algae which really likes my A. Nana. The thing about my tank the past few weeks I don't like is the lack of growth. Maybe it is time for a good trim job.

Also, how is the new house?

Doug


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## turbowagon (Dec 30, 2005)

I like the layout, Ernie. If the Marselia is overrun with algae and you need to ditch it, I think the foreground would look good composed entirely of Blyxa in your tank.

I recently had algae issues similar to yours in my 29 gallon tank, and I got rid of them by reducing my photoperiod to 8 hours for a few weeks with only 65W of light. You might want to try reducing your lighting to only 55 watts for 8-9 hours until you acheive a more stable CO2 situation (maybe with a 1 hour 110W overlap). With high lighting comes high CO2 demand, and if it's not supplied consistently and in enough concentration, algae will start to take hold.

I too was seeing algae appear on older growth, and I was afraid that if I reduced my photoperiod, the plant growth would slow down and my "older growth" algae issues would increase. I found that my plants did grow a bit slower, but old growth wasn't getting plagued by algae anymore. Back when I was burning 130W for 10 hours over my tank, I found myself constantly pruning back old leaves due to algae growth.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Well I took drastic measures against the BBA this weekend. I spot-treated with 3% H2O2 and let that sit for 1 hour before doing my 50% water change. Total amount hydrogen peroxide did not exceed 1 mL per gallon of water. Also I soaked the 3 driftwood/fern/moss peices in a bucket of 1 mL per gallon of water solution. We will see if that zaps the algae in a few days/weeks.

*Doug *- uh-oh, not another embarassing sermon reference. I thought he only did that when I visited :icon_redf . As for the new house....ripping out old plaster and carpet, repairing old plumbing, and painting is keeping me out of trouble!

The red plant lower left is ludwigia glandulosa. It's a slow growing stem, with a cool deep red color. Mine hasn't propogated at all.  Any spot algae on the glass is pretty much nil, thanks to phosphates I believe: I dose to 2ppm, 1.5ppm, & 1.5ppm every week. And yes, ferts (micro/macro) are being dose regularly, and water changes are happening weekly. Which leads me into....

*turbowagon *- CO2!!!! I'm convinced this is the issue, and it's directly related also to the lighting. I don't have enough co2 to keep up with the amount of lighting I have. I think another cause of this might be the fact that my spraybar causes TOO MUCH surface agitation.

I appreciate the advice regarding the marselia, too. I'll see what that h2o2 treatment does for it, but my hopes are practically nonexistant. I may end up digging it up. I DID notice that it's the perfect hiding place for juvie shrimp....so that is a great benefit. Once I get my dream 75 gallon tank, blyxa will be the foreground of choice for sure.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience regarding the photoperiod/intensity of your tank (also a 29g as I recall). Did you take step s to improve co2 dissolution? That sounds encouraging, and I might go that route. I have my doubts as far as 55 watts growing R. macrandra and L. glandulosa. Blyxa, M. umbrosum, marselia, Alt. Reineckki should all be OK with 55 watts instead of 110w.

I am pretty sure I do need new bulbs. Here's the plan of attack: Stay with 110 watts for now until I can get new bulbs, but reduce daylight hours to 8. Watch for results of the H2O2 treatment. Continue to push the co2 up, watching fish for stress. After a month I will see where we stand. I am busy remodeling my first home, so time + money spent need to go there first.

Thanks for the comments!


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Your Dad didn't say anything bad that made me think otherwise of you, so no worries there! hahaha!

I am glad you are staying busy with the house. We don't need you getting into trouble now do we?

I thought the red plant was ludwigia glandulosa but I wasn't 100% sure. In another forum a thread I follow has some in it and it looks nice there too.

I wonder if I am over doing the Phosphates. I am dosing around 3 something ppm 3x a week. 



> TOO MUCH surface agitation


 This very well could be your cause of CO2 loss. Try pointing that think down a bit.

I would have never thought of doing a hydrogen peroxide treatment with my plants. Where did you come up with using this? I hope it works well for you though.


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## attack11 (May 5, 2006)

esarkipato said:


> A full tank shot: M. Umbrosum soaks up all the light. How can I make the contrast/brightness of this photo even out? Using Photoshop?


multiple exposures at different stops; merge into an hdr. if your camera can do autobracketing of atleast 3 shots with an ev range of 2 you're set. more exposures = better hdr. photoshop cs2 has hdr support in it, and there's a seperate app called photomatix that does hdr and will also tone map. a lot of people mistake tone mapping for hdr.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Very nice looking tank! I have a few questions for you. Have you been able to verify that the pale, yellowish coloration is due to a lack of Fe? I'm getting the same thing on some of my plants and starting to think that I'm either not dosing enough CSM+B(extra Fe) or the solution went bad. 
Nice work on keeping everything under control and that's one *monster* of a java fern! Have you completely solved the gsa on old leaves yet? A previous poster thought it was b/c his lights were on for too long. I always thought it was something else, like not enough Po4 or Co2. Speaking of Po4, you mention that you do ~2ppm 3x a week. How many tsp's would this equate to? 1/8tsp or so? Lookin' good. Keep us updated with pictures. I'll be converting my 90g to a planted soon and you are definately inspiring me.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

> I would have never thought of doing a hydrogen peroxide treatment with my plants. Where did you come up with using this? I hope it works well for you though


Either here or on Aquatic Plant Central the issue was raised (try a search). Some have had success with BBA and hair algae from what I've read. No real harm to fish noticed thus far. Other invasive methods involve bleach dipping, but that's a little too hardcore for my style 

*attack11* - thanks for the advice, although it's over my head. I thought there were simple applications in photoshop that could tone down the bright spots, other than just turning down "brightness". LoL. Turns out I'm not really an expert at photography. I will ask....what is an hdr??


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

EDIT - double post


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

You ninja posted yourself!
I'm not sure what HDR is either, but whenever I've had hair algae, thread algae or BBA in the past, I simply tried to remove ALL of it and then turned up the Co2 to help keep it from coming back. Sometimes it will try, but you have to keep removing it. Eventually it will get the hint that it's not wanted


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

*ringram* - looks like you ninja'd me, then I ninja'd myself. Ouch. :hihi:

Thanks a lot for the compliments, so much appreciated. As for the pale yellowish color, I'm not sure yet what it's from. I'm now more suspect of lighting and co2 issues than Iron. The L. Glandulosa is what looks a little pale on the new leaves the other plants look pretty much OK. They look like they are curling a little bit too. *shrugs* I wonder how old your Plantex solution is? And do you store it in a cool, dark place?

As for the "old leaf algae" (more than just GSA -- hairy and BBA too!!) I think I'm getting the idea. Thanks to turbowagon here and tom barr elsewhere, I think that the problem is not enough co2 for my amount of light. So the solution must be one or both: 1. up the co2, or 2. down the lights.

Last night I made sure the lights were only on for 8 hours per day. I've also turned the spraybar so that the surface has _movement_ but no _ripples_. We'll see how the fish handle this and then adjust the co2 from there. I'm considering turning off one of the lights. Unfortunately, they are on the same ballast so no stacking 

Thanks for the advice...sometime perserverence is the only way to victory. I just don't have that much time right now to sacrifice unfortunately. And good luck with your 90 gallon....don't tell me you plan on trying plants and silver dolllars!!??


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Ernie,
2x55x8hrs is still to much light for a 29g.

You can pull a bulb and burn 1x55x8/10 hrs that would be plenty. that light needs a switch per bulb.

If you will clean the tank good, trim all infected plants, mow the lawn and vac/trim all the BBA out, dose to the sticky and dose Excel for a couple to 3 weeks with consistant C02 during light cycle and 1x55, your tank will be in good shape in a month or less. Promise :thumbsup: 
The plants will grow a bit slower, but that is actually what you want, they will grow healthier too and your tank will be more stable.

Night time surface aeration with spraybar is a good thing also.

Then once the tank is back in shape you can burn 1x55 8 to 10 hrs and 2x55 for about 2hrs.


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## attack11 (May 5, 2006)

you could also play with the channels, levels and curve of the image in an intermediate to advanced photo editor. photoshop would be the best to use.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Wö£fëñxXx said:


> Ernie,
> 2x55x8hrs is still to much light for a 29g.
> 
> You can pull a bulb and burn 1x55x8/10 hrs that would be plenty. that light needs a switch per bulb.
> ...


Oh no, you found my thread  

hahaaaaa, Craig you are right and I do know it. I'm just stubborn. Do you think that all the plants (L. glandulosa, rotala macrandra especially) will grow nice and healthy for me with only 55 watts??? And you are right about slower growth, it's preferable.

Like I mentioned before, I just don't have time right now to do a major replant. Nor am I interested in dosing Excel...too pricey! I will likely wait until we move into the new house that is currently devouring my waking hours. When I eventually get my 75 gallon tank, this 2x55 watt unit will move to that tank and this one will become a breeding ground for Neo. Brichardi!! It's only a matter of time.....


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

esarkipato said:


> Oh no, you found my thread
> 
> hahaaaaa, Craig you are right and I do know it. I'm just stubborn. Do you think that all the plants (L. glandulosa, rotala macrandra especially) will grow nice and healthy for me with only 55 watts??? And you are right about slower growth, it's preferable.
> 
> Like I mentioned before, I just don't have time right now to do a major replant. Nor am I interested in dosing Excel...too pricey! I will likely wait until we move into the new house that is currently devouring my waking hours. When I eventually get my 75 gallon tank, this 2x55 watt unit will move to that tank and this one will become a breeding ground for Neo. Brichardi!! It's only a matter of time.....


Hehe... yes I found it, I looked at your foreground and it scared me, it really did, I felt affraid... was like I had walked into my teenage daughters bedroom, I get very scared...LOL

Those plants will do fine with the reduced lighting, and I can completely understand the lack of time thingy....

Brichard are nice fish, I still have one left from my earlier days, that was fun, maybe I will do it again one of these years when I get all my teens grown up and out of here!!! :help:


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

> I looked at your foreground and it scared me


Yes I know. One of the tufts of BBA on the Marselia has started to turn red, so that's a good sign. I take it to mean that the H2O2 treatment CAN work.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Ernie,

Any update on the algea war? Who is winning? 

How is the house?


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Whew, I've been way out of touch with PT!! 

I guess the algae war is at a standoff. I turned off one of the 55w lights, so now just one 55w over the whole tank. *nervous* I did a big trim sunday (after missing a week of waterchange/dosing!!!), but didn't really work on removing all the BBA. I'm really considering tearing this tank down in a few months. The driftwood is several years old and I think one possible source of problems with algae. The filter hardware is also infested. *sigh*

The new house just might be winning the war against my patience & determination! What a holiday.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

I understand your thoughts. I was temped to just let stuff go this semester. Half the time I would do a water change and dose for one week then take a week off of messing with the tank, meaning no WC or ferts or anything. Some how things seem to be going pretty well for me now. Parts of my tank are flourishing while others aren't. I don't know why...

BTW ~ Come see! http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/33937-wingsdlc-40g-long-updated-12-15-a.html?highlight=wingsdlc


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Yea, funny how that is, huh? I figure it's a kind of purging :hihi: more just the products of laziness/business!


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

any updates on your tank?


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Managed to get my hands on a decent (at least working) camera. The tank just underwent a serious trimming and thinning out....the java fern woods were really taking over the tank. NOw I'm patiently waiting for a field of blyxa japonica..... 

Current extra-curricular activities on this tank include building a stand (its on milk crates right now!) and an external co2 reactor.










For some reason, my cherry shrimp get much, much redder in this co2-injected tank. I don't know if that's because 1) they aren't overcrowded anymore, 2) they are hunted , or 3) lower pH










Newest member of the tank: an apistogramma "borelli" which I'm starting learn might actually be the variant called "steel blue" (see thread here at cichlid-forum.com)









And the king & queen and royal jester of the court:


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## Chrona (Feb 25, 2007)

Awesome tank man! Thanks again. Looks like I managed to ninja some of that blyxa


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Ernie,

Fish and plants look quite healthy. 

The Pearls, Apisto, and Angle don't eat your Cherries?? I had kribs for a while and they took out my cherries like it was nothing!

Thanks for the up dates! If you want to do a plant swap sometime let me know

Doug


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Thanks for the comments. Chrona - the blyxa is finally taking root I think....I kind of let it go for a while and now it's growing back but as you saw, it's a nice pink/red coloration.

Doug - the cherries that get old and deep, dark red like the one pictured don't get eaten. I'm sure most of them do. I just try to keep the fish well fed, and they seem to let the bigger shrimp alone. None of my fish are as aggressive as the kribs that I've seen in the LFS, though.


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

Looks nice, finding the camera was a good thing love the tank.


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## rasbora (Sep 1, 2006)

nice. Pearls are an under-appreciated fish I think.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

thanks rasbora. I had always wanted a pair...just for the looks. Now the male is really hounding the female, his belly/breast gets bright red. Fun stuff!

I also just added a co2 drop-checker from blacksunshine, so soon enough we will see whether or not the red sea diffuser is providing enough co2!


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

What happened to Ludwigia Cuba? Did you take it out completely?


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

How's the fight with BBA going?

Are you sure the plant in the back left is M. umbrosum? It may be Lysimachia nummularia.....


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

any cherry shrimp you want to get rid of? I have a updated tank at my work that just has guppies in it. I would love to get some shrimp for them.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Well i kind of dropped the ball on this thread ... yet again ... 

tritan, the L. Cuba IS gone. It was just too big for a 29g tank. It made everything else seem so small in comprison!

hooha, the bba fight is going well. I have a small tuft on my lawn (Marselia) but other than that it's pretty non-existant ATM. I think you are right, that plant is not M. U. but rather Lysimachia nummularia. How embarrassing, especially when I've traded/raok'd this plant several times (sorry eklikewhoa)! Thanks for the ID though, I've been growing this plant for a long time, and really like it!

Here's a few new photos..you can see a decent amount of growth and a new Ludwigia species (Arcuata) which always seem to do well for me. The Mayaca is getting established, the blyxa is already there! I also added a few Crypt Spiralis, but they need to fill in a bit (thanks Tritan!). I just can't seem to grow Alt. Reineckii very well (no idea why) so the back right corner is pretty empty right now. There is a really, really big patch of HM also in the back center. I just wanted to see how thick it would get under high light/co2. It's like a forest...










And from the side-view:










A cory on the lawn 










I also built a stand for the tank! THis is my first real woodworking project, so bear with the poor choice of wood cuts & stain. It will most certainly hold enough weight, I used 2x4 frame with braces/glue at each joint!



















Also, the newest development is my CO2 diffusion. I finally made the inline reactor I've been dreaming of. It's on the intake side of the XP3 right now, and no problems thus far. It's about 18", 1.5" diameter PVC. REally simple design, but it's getting me 100% diffusion right now.










RIght now I'm debating on where to put the tank...upstairs in the dining room would be nice for viewability, but downstairs in the basement is nice for maintenance. Either way, I can finally get all the equipment under a stand!:icon_mrgr


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

Nice pics esarkipato !! about time !! 

i wish I could say the same about the Marselia. Check my link in my profile tonight.


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## RedIrocZ-28 (Oct 24, 2006)

Ernie, we've had 17 Endler babies this week in our tanks, its just about time for things to become overcrowded. I have about 25 in one tank, 8 in another, and ~13 in another. I'm thinking about starting to sell some locally and I remember you said you were interested a while back. I think the Orange, black, yellow colors would look good in your tank.  Got any room for a few fish?


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

pm sent on the fish.


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

Haven't seen any new pics, hows the tank?


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## groyed (Oct 3, 2007)

Great tank esark... a little something I picked up along the way with regards to the Marsiella, when you get it initially trim it back to about 1-1.5" from the root, reason being the older shoot or leaves tend to yellow with time. Its also a good way to 'teach' it to grow sideways instead of up.
For the Blyxa though a rich substrate definitely promotes root growth. I have them in my tank, the tops looks weird but when I took them out to remove the browned bottom leaves I realized the roots had grown much and that was only about 2 weeks after I planted them in.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Thanks, groyed. I have to give the forum a confession.....I'm an adverse-weather aquarist! Didn't quite realize it until this summer when there were a billion and two things to do around the house, plus weddings, etc. all in all, my tank(s) have suffered. I still haven't even mounted the 29g on it's new stand!!! 

Right now I'm condensing my 3 tanks into this one, then I'll hopefully focus on getting it in top shape this winter. Planted tanking is a *really* great hobby for a michigan winter!


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

esarkipato said:


> Planted tanking is a *really* great hobby for a michigan winter!


Absolutely agreed!


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Ya, except for the shipping temps! :hihi:


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Well I've finally been giving a little more attention to the tank. AFter months of neglect I definitely had my work cut out for me. Here's a couple of photos:

















As you can see the marselia lawn got replanted, I think I see a few runners after just a week or two. Maybe they just really like pool filter sand  

Just got some new plants from momotaro this week, including some crypt balansae (sp?)... I'm trying to focus more on slow growers like crypts, anubias, java fern.


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

stand looks nice. I am in the same boat, no time and looking at buying another tank. I need to sell my cherry shrimp first before I can take these tanks down.

md


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Ernie,

The plants look quite healthy. How about adding some rock work to the tank to break up the background and the foreground? 

Keep an eye on your new crypt. They can get huge! It was way too big for my 40 long and in a few months I can see it getting too large for my 55g.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

md - thanks for the compliment, I think the next stand I build (for a 75 -- next project) will be different but this one was a good learning experience. It's waaay more than enough sturdy, so that is good to know.

Wingsdlc - Yup, a midground is definitely needed. I have some dwarf sag in there that should take off any time now, although I'd rather have blyxa like in the past. I do have some rocks hiding in the left corner near the filter intake, so I might try using those for time being. 

I didn't realize the balansae got that large!! I might have to set up my 75g tank sooner than I planned lol. Then again, I don't mind having a jungle tank


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

esarkipato said:


> Wingsdlc - Yup, a midground is definitely needed. I have some dwarf sag in there that should take off any time now, although I'd rather have blyxa like in the past. I do have some rocks hiding in the left corner near the filter intake, so I might try using those for time being.
> 
> I didn't realize the balansae got that large!! I might have to set up my 75g tank sooner than I planned lol. Then again, I don't mind having a jungle tank


You had pretty good luck with blyxa didn't you? I had it for a short time and it really didn't do much for me. Just broke into small chunks and floated around. I think I would like to try it again sometime.

A 75G would probably be much more fitting for the balansae. It took a few weeks for it to take off but when it did it really took off! It seems that most of the plants I have do it like that.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with a jungle tank either.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Ernie, FWIW, I have C. balansae, and it grows up the back of the 125, across the top, and then down the front. Here is a close up. Granted it took about 2 years to grown this out behind the tiger lilies.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

wingsdlc - ya my blyxa did great, until I started neglecting the tank. I think I used root tabs under each stem grouping, I'm sure this helped.

taz - i look at that photo and I think . . . . *bring it on!!* Seriously, I do want my tank to be a (healthy and balanced) jungle again. Hopefully I won't eat those words.


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

esarkipato said:


> taz - i look at that photo and I think . . . . *bring it on!!*


:thumbsup: :icon_mrgr :thumbsup: As you can see I like the healthy jungle as well. 
Just watch the light blocking. If you decide they get too big, C. spiralis are similar (flatter leaves), but not as long. They seem to grow about the same rate as balansae, but in a tighter group. The balansae has spread runners almost to the front glass (It was originally planted 1" from the back).


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Yea, I've got a spiralis to the left of where I planted the balansae -- it'll nice to see the comparison.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Did some arranging/rearranging, not sure if it's for the better just yet. There are some algae issues (hair, tuft, bba, you name it really!) but it's for the most part under control. Nice shot of the new Rams:










YOu can't see it in that picture, but the female has a crooked mouth kinda wierd. Hope the male still likes her 

And here's a full shot. I'm planning on getting some blyxa in there again and removing out the anubias in the center of the tank. The C. Balansae is still under control but I'm betting in a week it's gonna need to be trimmed down.










I also shot a video of my ram eating MTS out of the substrate....need to find a place to post it!


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

esarkipato said:


> Did some arranging/rearranging, not sure if it's for the better just yet. There are some algae issues (hair, tuft, bba, you name it really!) but it's for the most part under control. Nice shot of the new Rams:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice shot of the rams ! I got a pair but they didn't like the tetras so they went back. Iroc you have any endlers left? I saw some at tims place are they yours?


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## Speshall*K (Jun 24, 2007)

your rams could be a bit more blue... mine are like flourecent blue(glowing) but my plants will never be as nice as yours!!!


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

Nice work ! Looks great and love the rams. I will be posting new pics shortly of my 75 gallon .


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

how bout thos pics:hihi: is this tank still running?


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## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

nice growth.


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