# AzFishKid's 150 Gallon High-Tech (COMING DOWN)



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

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_This tank is an upgrade from my 68 gallon (click for old journal)._

After being up and running for over two years, my previous tank was taken down on May 30, 2010. 
With this new tank, i hope to use the knowledge that i've gained to avoid repeating mistakes that i
made with my 68 gallon. Please feel free to comment on or critique my setup as this tank evolves!

On a side note, the first 30 or so pages of this journal are merely discussion, noobish questions, and me complaining about how i couldn't get pressurized co2. If you wish to skip past all of that, please start at around page 35.

As many of you know, in early January of 2010 i had my first go at pressurized co2, and it didn't end so well. I received a severe second degree burn on my right leg (about 4"x2.5") from liquid co2 after the safety valve blew as we were driving back from the store. If you are interested in hearing the story, please click here for the original post, or here for a discussion about what might have been the cause of the accident.

_Click here to view pictures taken during the construction of this tank._

*SPECIFICATIONS*
- General
*Purchase Date*: May 30, 2010
*Source*: "Used" - Craigslist

- Aquarium
*Material*: Glass (0.5" / 1.3cm thick)
*Size*: 157.1 US Gallons / 611.1 Liters
*Manufactured By*: All-Glass Aquarium
*Manufacturer's Date*: April 17, 1995
*Dimensions*: 72" Long, 28" High, 18" Wide / 182.9cm Long, 71.1cm High, 45.7cm Wide

- Stand/Canopy* 
*Material*: Oak
*Finish*: Black paint (Behr)
*Manufactured By*: All-Glass Aquarium
*Manufacturer's Date*: October 12, 1994
*Dimensions (Stand)*: 75" Long, 30" High, 20" Wide / 190.5cm Long, 76.2cm High, 50.8cm Wide
*Dimensions (Canopy)*: 75" Long, 8.5" High , 20" Wide / 190.5cm Long, 21.6cm High, 50.8cm Wide
_*The canopy is currently not in use._

- Setup 
*Substrate*: Turface Pro (100 lbs./45.4kg)
*Lighting*: 72"/182.9cm "no-name-brand" T5 from Ebay
*Watts*: 280 total
*Lighting Schedule* (7 days/week): 
••• 8:00 AM - 11:30 AM [Bulbs 5-8/BACK]
••• 11:31 AM - 12:30 PM [Bulbs 1-8/ALL]
••• 12:31 PM - 4:00 PM [Bulbs 1-4/FRONT]
••• 4:00 PM [OFF]
*Filtration*: Eheim Pro 3e 2076 Canister Filter (x2)
*Co2 Injection*: GLA Co2 Regulator w/ 5lb tank and Milwaukee SMS122 pH controller
*Fertilizing via*: Dry Dosing
*Fertilizing Schedule*:
••• Sunday: 50% water change; 1.5 tsp KN03, .375 tsp KH2P04, .5 tsp K2S04
••• Monday: .375 tsp plantex CSM+B
••• Tuesday: 1.5 tsp KN03, .375 tsp KH2P04, .5 tsp K2S04
••• Wednesday: .375 tsp plantex CSM+B
••• Thursday: 1.5 tsp KN03, .375 tsp KH2P04, .5 tsp K2S04
••• Friday: .375 tsp plantex CSM+B 
••• Saturday: Rest day
*Root Tabs*: RootMedic Comprehensive/RootMedic Iron Intense
*Misc. Equipment*: Hydor Koralia 2 power head


*FLORA (plans)*
_Click here to view past and present pictures of my plants._
• _Blyxa japonica_
• _Didiplis diandra_
• _Heteranthera zosterifolia_
• _Hygrophila polysperma 'sunset'_
• _Hyptis lorentziana_
• _Limnophila aromatica_
• _Lobelia cardinalis 'small form'_
• _Ludwigia brevipes_
• _Marsilea minuta_ 
• _Marsilea quadrifolia_
• _Poaceae sp. 'purple bamboo'_
• _Pogostemon erectus_
• _Pogostemon stellatus_
• _Proserpinaca palustris_
• _Rotala magenta_
• _Rotala sp. 'mini' type 2_
• _Rotala wallichii_
• _Rotala macrandra_
• _Staurogyne sp. 'porto velho' _



*FAUNA (plans)*
_Click here to view past and present pictures of my fish._
(RED= I don't have yet)
• Discus (_Symphysodon spp._) [5-7]
• Black Cory (_Black c. schultzei_) [5]
• Baderi Cory (_Corydoras baderi_) [5]
• Orange Laser Cory (_Corydoras sp. (Cw010)_) [5]
• Peacock Gudgeon Goby (_Tateurndina ocellicauda_) [2]
• German Blue Ram (_Mikrogeophagus ramirezi_) [4]
• L144 Blue Eye Yellow Bristlenose Pleco [6]
• Oto (_Otocinclus affinis_) [15]
• Oil Catfish (_Tatia perugiae_) [4]
• Assassin Snails (_Anentome helena_)
• Zebra Nerite Snails

Choosing one out of (in addition to above):
• Cardinal Tetra (_Paracheirodon axelrodi_)
• Rummy Nose Tetra (_Hemigrammus rhodostomus_)
• Gold Neon tetra (_Paracheirodon innesi_)
• Congo Tetra (_Phenacogrammus interruptus_)

Possibilities:
• Amano Shrimp (_Caridina multidentata_)

*MOST RECENT FULL-TANK SHOT*
_Click here to view past and present full-tank shots._
*Photo taken on*: September 5, 2010
*Most recent update*: September 5, 2010 (p.43)












*Images in banner are not mine. Sources: 
http://www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com/Artwork/Anubias_barteri.gif
http://inkart.net/art/wildlife_art/blue_discus_fish/blue_discus_fish.gif


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*May 30, 2010* - Update #1

This morning i picked up the tank and stand from a seller that i found on craigslist. After driving for almost an hour, we got to his house and loaded it into the truck. It was HEAVY! Everything arrived home all in one piece though, and i'm really excited to get it set up!

I plan on staining the stand and canopy black to match the furniture in my bedroom. I'm not sure if i'm going to use the canopy though, since i still want to hang my light from the ceiling. Speaking of ceiling, yesterday we attempted building a pulley system for the light fixture (so i'd be able to raise it up while doing maintenance), but my parents are concerned that pulling the light fixture up is putting to much strain on the ceiling. Hopefully we'll figure it out.

As of now, i think i'm going to keep the same general scape that i had in my 68 gallon, except i'm going to have the carpet instead of the white gravel, and i'm hopefully going to order a 3d foam background from www.aquariumhabitats.com.
*I'd really like a E. tenellus carpet. Can this plant be grown emmersed? *

We're planning on moving the tank inside later tonight. The only way to get it inside is through my window- which is challenging because the tank weighs a lot.

Here's a picture of the setup in the seller's home.
More photos will be posted soon!









Here's the tank inside my bedroom. It was heavy, but it was a lot easier to shove through the window than i thought it would be!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice tank, I love mine! That Glass looks thinner then mine probably just the angle of the picture.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> Nice tank, I love mine! That Glass looks thinner then mine probably just the angle of the picture.


Thanks!

The glass is 1" thick.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Sweet! I cant wait to see how this tank turns out.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The glass is 1" thick.


Glass on mine is only 1/2"  Couldn't imagine carring 1" glass tank in this size, was all 2 of us wanted to do with mine going up stairs.

Craig


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Looking forward to it...subscribed.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

craziness

resist the urge to collect too many varieties......looks like a sweet setup!!!


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## FDNY911 (Dec 6, 2009)

Subscribed! I love big planted tanks!! Good luck on it kid.


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## Digital (Apr 4, 2008)

That's awesome! You best get some more platinums for it!!!!!!!!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm looking forward to it!:thumbsup:


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

This will be fun!

-Andrew


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Great news on the tank! I know you've been wanting this for a while.


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## nemosreef (Oct 19, 2007)

This looks like it will be realy good.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

You finally have a tank big enough for them Discus!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> Glass on mine is only 1/2"  Couldn't imagine carring 1" glass tank in this size, was all 2 of us wanted to do with mine going up stairs.
> 
> Craig


It took 3 total to move the tank. It was very heavy, haha. 



> craziness
> 
> resist the urge to collect too many varieties......looks like a sweet setup!!!


The problem is that's what i was doing in my old tank, and i eventually ran out of room for more.. but now i have double the space, MUAHAHAHA. Collectoris. :hihi:



> Subscribed! I love big planted tanks!! Good luck on it kid.


Thanks! I'm hoping it's going to look really good when it's done!



> That's awesome! You best get some more platinums for it!!!!!!!!


I think i'm probably going to stick to discus, but i may add in a few angels if there's extra room. Definitely some platinums. 



> I'm looking forward to it! :thumbsup:


Me too! :icon_mrgr



> Great news on the tank! I know you've been wanting this for a while.


Yeah i've been talking about getting a bigger tank for who knows how long, and now i finally have one. WOOT :icon_cool



> This will be fun!
> 
> -Andrew


Indeed! You'll get to see it in November. 



> Looking forward to it...subscribed.


I like when people subscribe. :bounce:
Thanks!



> This looks like it will be realy good.


I sure hope so!



> You finally have a tank big enough for them Discus!


FINALLLYYY i never thought this day would come!



> Sweet! I cant wait to see how this tank turns out.


I can't wait either, haha!

Thanks for all the comments everyone!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Now that, is a multitasked post, lol. Did you keep any of your fish or did you trade them all in?


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Yes! The tank arrived. My parents are mad at me for keeping a 10,29,37,55 in the house, and your keeping a 150! Are you gonna do 50% water change?


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

if the glass was 1" thick it would weigh over 500 pounds empty. Did you actually measure it?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Dang dude. One inch thick glass.
Now time for some discus?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Now that, is a multitasked post, lol. Did you keep any of your fish or did you trade them all in?


The only fish i kept were the plecos, sterbai cories, skunk cories, otos, and the assassin snails. They're all in a 10 gallon right now. I know, it's a little too small for them, but they seem to be doing well.

I sold the rest of the fish to AAPE members.



> Yes! The tank arrived. My parents are mad at me for keeping a 10,29,37,55 in the house, and your keeping a 150! Are you gonna do 50% water change?


Congratulations! I haven't figured out the water changing deal yet, either 50% a week or 25% two times a week.



> if the glass was 1" thick it would weigh over 500 pounds empty. Did you actually measure it?


HAHA it's actually 1/2" thick. I guess i was really tired when i measured it last night... 



> Dang dude. One inch thick glass.
> Now time for some discus?


I wish it was 1" thick, LOL. 

Can't wait until i get some discus!


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

That is going to be a sweet setup! I can't wait to see the end result. you should just cram that baby full of cardinals!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

TheCryptKeeper said:


> That is going to be a sweet setup! I can't wait to see the end result. you should just cram that baby full of cardinals!


I may end up just doing a bunch of cardinals and discus, instead of cardinals and rummy nose tetras with the discus. I LOVE cardinals. Definitely one of the best fish available in this hobby!


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## Digital (Apr 4, 2008)

Have fun with those water changes, they take soooooo long! LOL

You'll see once you fill that baby up! 

I still think the tank is awesome btw.


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## globali (May 29, 2010)

Best of Luck.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*May 31, 2010* - Update #2

Let the sanding... BEGIN!

It's going to take a few days to sand everything, so this is by no means the finished product!

I decided that i'm going to stain everything a dark espresso color instead of pure black. I think it will look better.
We're also going to add in some braces to the middle of the stand, since it's a little wobbly.

































Here's the hardware that i picked out for the doors. I think they'll look really nice.


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## Digital (Apr 4, 2008)

Looks like a awesome start, great choice on the espresso coloring!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

IC3D said:


> Looks like a awesome start, great choice on the espresso coloring!


Thanks! 

I'm starting to think square doors would look better... any thoughts?

Also... i'm trying to figure out how to use my light with this setup. I thought i could just lay it on the braces of the aquarium inside the canopy, but that takes up a lot of room (leaving not a whole lot for me to reach my arm through). Could i cut a big hole in the canopy and hang my light from the ceiling like how it was before? Or should i maybe just remove the whole top completely (leaving just the outer frame of the canopy)?


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## FDNY911 (Dec 6, 2009)

Nah I like the rectangular doors because it makes the tank look taller. Dude I'm really impressed ... you really set the bar high lol I'm expecting only the best and most awesome updates from you bro lol. 

PS Your back yard looks really nice, how big is that backyard property??


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

FDNY911 said:


> Nah I like the rectangular doors because it makes the tank look taller. Dude I'm really impressed ... you really set the bar high lol I'm expecting only the best and most awesome updates from you bro lol.
> 
> PS Your back yard looks really nice, how big is that backyard property??


The thing i don't like about the current doors though is the weird shape at the top. They do make the tank look taller, but i just think they look kinda funny and they probably won't match anything in my room. Oh well, something to think about. By square, i meant the same size but taller (in place of the top design). I guess they would really be rectangles. :flick:

I'm hoping to keep up with the updates for this tank. It's nice to have a record of everything. 

Our backyard is a little under 1 acre. Koi pond, turtle pond, garden, and a basketball court. I love it! And thanks. :icon_mrgr


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## Digital (Apr 4, 2008)

Rectangle doors would be more aesthetically pleasing I believe... I'm thinking leave the outer frame of the canopy and hang the light... probably would stay A LOT cooler also.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*June 1, 2010* - Update #3

Hope everyone had a safe and relaxing Memorial Day Weekend! I continued sanding the stand today, as well as most of the doors (i still have to finish up the details, including the sides and the "grooves"). There's still some spots on the stand that need to be finished up, including the bottom left section, but it's pretty much done! Tomorrow i'm going to finish up the stand, start sanding the canopy, and hopefully pick out a few different stains to try out.

While sanding, i found a date inside the stand. I'd like to preserve it (i don't know why, LOL). Could i just put a strong piece of tape over it while we're staining it?


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## Digital (Apr 4, 2008)

Looking good! Keep the updates rollin!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Sure, just put tape over the date lol.
Nice work :thumbsup:


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

This is going to be great. The discus will look great in that tall tank. Where are you planning on getting the discus?


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## Digital (Apr 4, 2008)

^ www.discusmadness.com has some nice packages and fish for that matter.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

yikesjason said:


> This is going to be great. The discus will look great in that tall tank. Where are you planning on getting the discus?


I hope it'll be great!

I'm planning in getting the discus from Kenny Cheung (Kenny's Discus) and maybe a few from Michael Beals (Central Ohio Discus). I won't be getting the fish for a while though, since i really need to save up quite a bit of cash for them. Haha.


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## fishyjoe24 (Dec 10, 2009)

fly out to NADA show june 10-13 here in inrving(dallas/dfw) tx. you will more or likely find some 5-7 inches discus at the auction going for 60-80 bucks. discus han's was doing full grown ones for 150.00 on simply don't know if he is still doing it or not.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

fishyjoe24 said:


> fly out to NADA show june 10-13 here in inrving(dallas/dfw) tx. you will more or likely find some 5-7 inches discus at the auction going for 60-80 bucks. discus han's was doing full grown ones for 150.00 on simply don't know if he is still doing it or not.


I would, but i'm not in the position right now to purchase any fish. 

I look kinda funny in this picture... but i now know what it feels like to be a fish in an aquarium! :fish: :thumbsup:


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Stop being lazy and get to work!

LOL

-Andrew


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

A Hill said:


> Stop being lazy and get to work!
> 
> LOL
> 
> -Andrew



HAHA!! 

We picked out some black paint and a stain to try out. I have plans for the rest of the day, so i'll paint a few on tomorrow and see how they look.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

cool picture of you in a tank! How tall are you?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

What light is that looks nice!

Craig


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> What light is that looks nice!
> 
> Craig


I believe it's a Fish Need It fixture.


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## mgdmirage (Mar 30, 2009)

I don't believe FNI make a 6 foot fixture.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

mgdmirage said:


> I don't believe FNI make a 6 foot fixture.


They used to I know a local with one but haven't seen it in person since he got it in. This was early last year that he got it though. They are currently redesigning there fixtures and not sure they will continue though.

Craig


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## PC1 (May 21, 2010)

Very cool man, I just picked up a 150 myself that I will hopefully be starting to work on in the next week or two. Mines 60"x24"x24 Cant wait to get it going too. I'm in the process of getting all the extra stuff together. GL!


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## mgdmirage (Mar 30, 2009)

Craigthor said:


> They used to I know a local with one but haven't seen it in person since he got it in. This was early last year that he got it though. They are currently redesigning there fixtures and not sure they will continue though.
> 
> Craig


Ah i did not know that, too bad they don't make one still


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## maggot (Jun 3, 2010)

*150 Gallon Tank*

Do you plan to sleep in it one night before it's set up?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> cool picture of you in a tank! How tall are you?


5' 9" i think. :hihi:



> What light is that looks nice!
> 
> Craig


It's actually NOT a fishneedit light. It's one that i found on ebay ("no-name-brand"). I've been very happy with it.

I may actually sell it and get two 36" fixtures though, because i'd really like to mount the light inside of the canopy, but it would be kinda difficult to do that with a 72" fixture... 



> Very cool man, I just picked up a 150 myself that I will hopefully be starting to work on in the next week or two. Mines 60"x24"x24 Cant wait to get it going too. I'm in the process of getting all the extra stuff together. GL!


NICE- that's a wide tank! Good luck to you too! Do you have a journal set up for it?



> Do you plan to sleep in it one night before it's set up?


HAHA i actually may. It still kinda smells like algae though. :icon_eek:


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

awesome project dude, i'm excited to see this come together.


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## maggot (Jun 3, 2010)

*Plants*

I hope you get some nice plants


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Man with you in the tank it sure does show it's immense scale compared to the previous pic. That's going to be a huge project and a lot of fun! Looking forward to it...btw are you going for a Naturescape or Iwugami (sp?) something to compete with or just having fun with it? 

-Dan


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

i really think hanging the light from above and just leaving the trim sounds like a cool idea. but i'd say go ahead and stain the tops just in case you decide to use them.

sell all your crazy plants and limit yourself to 7 plant varieties. so hard i know, but it's so worth it


same for fish...so hard, but oh so worth it when the fish all seem to stick into groups instead of crazy all over the place.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

F22 said:


> awesome project dude, i'm excited to see this come together.


Thanks!



> I hope you get some nice plants


Yup i ditched all of my old plants (except for the two giant java ferns), so i'm going start from scratch. Hoping to get some nice species!



> Man with you in the tank it sure does show it's immense scale compared to the previous pic. That's going to be a huge project and a lot of fun! Looking forward to it...btw are you going for a Naturescape or Iwugami (sp?) something to compete with or just having fun with it?
> 
> -Dan


I would LOVE to do an iwagumi tank sometime, but with the height of this aquarium, i think it would be kind of a waste. As of right now, i'm planning on following the same basic aquascape that i had in my old tank, except i'm switching some things up. 



> i really think hanging the light from above and just leaving the trim sounds like a cool idea. but i'd say go ahead and stain the tops just in case you decide to use them.
> 
> sell all your crazy plants and limit yourself to 7 plant varieties. so hard i know, but it's so worth it
> 
> ...


Yup that's actually what i decided doing this morning. It's the easiest way to do it i guess, and i think it will look ok (if not good). I picked up some flat black spray-paint today to cover the trim with, since it's the oak color and it has a bunch of nasty-looking stain marks. I am going to complete the canopy though, like you suggested, incase i decide to put it back on.

7 sounds like a good number. That's true, since if you look at all of the "really good" aquascapes, they do only have a few species of plants. I'm going to have to really restrain myself though, LOL.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*June 4, 2010* - Update #4

I applied the first coat of paint on the stand today. I decided to go with paint instead of stain. We weren't able to find a stain that was dark enough, and it would have been a lot more work staining it anyway. The paint looks REALLY nice, so i'm very happy with it.

Tomorrow, i'm going to do a second coat on the stand and start the doors. The canopy hasn't been sanded or painted yet, so maybe i'll start that tomorrow too.

We're also going to add in two center braces to the stand, since the whole aquarium (1,200+ lbs. filled) was sitting on the rim of the stand, which is only about 1" wide. Just some extra stability.


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## nemosreef (Oct 19, 2007)

Looking good keep the updates comming.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's looking great. Nice job refurbishing that stand.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*June 4, 2010* - Update #4.5

Just got done adding the reinforcements. I thought it turned out pretty well! =)


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I am saving up to get a R/O system so that I can get a 150 (or 180, or 200, or 225, pretty much I want a big tank). It would either be a african cichlid tank (no R/O needed there, I have liquid rock for water) or a south african biotype. Can't what to see it planted! To get the iwagumi feel why not do a dry-start with HC?


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## globali (May 29, 2010)

Very nice wood work.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Caton said:


> I am saving up to get a R/O system so that I can get a 150 (or 180, or 200, or 225, pretty much I want a big tank). It would either be a african cichlid tank (no R/O needed there, I have liquid rock for water) or a south african biotype. Can't what to see it planted! To get the iwagumi feel why not do a dry-start with HC?


I was actually going to do a dry-start/emmersed method with _e. tenellus_, since i hear that does really well in low-tech tanks.



> Very nice wood work.


Thanks Globali. :fish:


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Im doing DMS on my 37 gallon and im happy with it. Its really good if you still need to collect equipments like heaters and filters and things like that while the grass is still growing.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Well, i didn't have a chance to work on the stand or canopy at all today. I forgot i had a drivers ed. class the whole day. :S


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

your 16 already? In NY you have to be 16 to get a permit. Probably diffrent in AZ


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

Here in GA it's 15 for a permit and 16 for the license. It varies by state though.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Yep. That class was fun. Not. 16 for a permit here, 16.5 for "graduated license" and 17 for a permanent license, though, I just got mine a couple of weeks ago because I never went in to get my permanent license lol. I waited about 18 months longer than I had to :tongue:
Nice job on the stand thus far :thumbsup:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> your 16 already? In NY you have to be 16 to get a permit. Probably diffrent in AZ


You have to be 15 years and 6 months to apply for a permit in Arizona. You can get your license when you turn 16.



> Yep. That class was fun. Not. 16 for a permit here, 16.5 for "graduated license" and 17 for a permanent license, though, I just got mine a couple of weeks ago because I never went in to get my permanent license lol. I waited about 18 months longer than I had to
> Nice job on the stand thus far


We had to listen to a retired police officer lecture for 6 hours... and then wait for another hour just to get the piece of paper saying that i completed the course... I was pretty pissed. :angryfire The guy was really slow and he was extra boring to listen too. Oh well, it's done. Thank god. :biggrin:

And thanks! Tomorrow i'm going to finish everything up and hopefully it'll be ready to move in sometime on Monday.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok, so i'm thinking about taking a different direction with this tank. What about something like this? It's half water / half land. I think this setup is absolutely stunning.

While i know this would require extensive research and probably a lot of extra equipment, i think this would be a really cool thing for me to do. I would definitely have a higher water level though, and not as much land- since i do still want to keep a few discus. I was thinking maybe 16" deep for water and the remaining 8" up top for land?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Sounds like a riparium to me!  Hydro would be thrilled if you do. haha


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's a neat idea, but I think that something like that is going to be easier to pull off with the above water area occupying something more than 1/2 of the vertical space.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> That's a neat idea, but I think that something like that is going to be easier to pull off with the above water area occupying something more than 1/2 of the vertical space.


Would i still be able to house 4-5 discus in that much water? That was my main reason for having 16". Less seemed kind of shallow to me for discus, but maybe not.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

2/3 filled up would still be 100 gallons, 1/3 filled would be 50, which is a little small for discus, I would think, but I have never kept them.
However, if you filled it 2/3, you would need to use much shorter plants that would stay 8 inches tall or shorter.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That would only be around 50 gallons of water, which doesn't sound like enough room for a group of discus. I just think that it would not be so convincing to have such a small space for the above water part. Are you determined to have discus in this setup? Plus, a real nice thing about having a tank with a lower water level is the view in through the water surface. With the water up high you would not really see that effect.

If you could hang up the light above the tank you could have a riparium with plants growing up and out of the top, but that would look best with a rimless tank.

If you would like to have an above water area with vivarium-type plants (orchids, ferns, bromeliads, etc.) and maybe some amphibious livestock, then a paludarium with a built-up hardscape would be best.

If you would like to plant emersed or marginal aquatic plants, then a riparium would be best. A riparium would probably also be easier to plan and set up and maintain. With a lower water level (and some fish other than discus) you could do a high-humifdity setup something like the one that Craigthor has going or the 55 that I had with emersed crypts, Java fern, _Bolbitis_ and so on.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> 2/3 filled up would still be 100 gallons, 1/3 filled would be 50, which is a little small for discus, I would think, but I have never kept them.
> However, if you filled it 2/3, you would need to use much shorter plants that would stay 8 inches tall or shorter.





> That would only be around 50 gallons of water, which doesn't sound like enough room for a group of discus. I just think that it would not be so convincing to have such a small space for the above water part. Are you determined to have discus in this setup? Plus, a real nice thing about having a tank with a lower water level is the view in through the water surface. With the water up high you would not really see that effect.
> 
> If you could hang up the light above the tank you could have a riparium with plants growing up and out of the top, but that would look best with a rimless tank.
> 
> ...


Hmmm... maybe i should stick to a planted tank. I am determined to have discus, so i don't think what i'm hoping to do would work.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's probably better if you want discus.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*June 6, 2010* - Update #5

The stand is DONE!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> *June 6, 2010* - Update #5
> 
> The stand is DONE!


roud: Pretty!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> roud: Pretty!


Haha thanks! We're probably going to move it inside tomorrow. :bounce:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Top notch job!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

that stand looks great. how far off do you think you are from filling the tank?


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## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

That's one fine looking stand.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Top notch job!


Thank you!



> that stand looks great. how far off do you think you are from filling the tank?


Depends on whether i decide to get the 3d foam background or not. If i decide to get it, it's going to be a month or two since i have to save up a bit. If not, maybe a week or so? I'm going to do the dry start method for the _e. tenellus_ carpet, so it won't be completely filled for at least a month.



> That's one fine looking stand.


Thanks!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That looks super.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I also bought a timer today for the lights, but after i bought it, i started thinking: Is there such thing as a timer that could turn the lights on (dim) at a certain time in the morning, then gradually increase until a certain time, then decrease until a later time and turn off? Like of like stimulating the daylight?

Does anyone know if something like this exists? And if so, can i buy it online anywhere?



> That looks super.


Thank you everyone for the comments. I'm very happy with it!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> I also bought a timer today for the lights, but after i bought it, i started thinking: Is there such thing as a timer that could turn the lights on (dim) at a certain time in the morning, then gradually increase until a certain time, then decrease until a later time and turn off? Like of like stimulating the daylight?
> 
> Does anyone know if something like this exists? And if so, can i buy it online anywhere?
> 
> ...


Profilux controller only cost about $1500 to get that effect.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> Profilux controller only cost about $1500 to get that effect.


Are you serious? LOL. No thank you.

Come on, there has to be something like that that is a little cheaper.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> Are you serious? LOL. No thank you.
> 
> Come on, there has to be something like that that is a little cheaper.


If your good at computer programming you could probably build a controller, do some programming, then spend to get dimmable T5HO or MH ballasts. Ballasts would need to be of the dimamble variety to be able to pull this off.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> If your good at computer programming you could probably build a controller, do some programming, then spend to get dimmable T5HO or MH ballasts. Ballasts would need to be of the dimamble variety to be able to pull this off.


Sounds complicated. I don't know anything about computer programming, so i guess i'll have to be happy with the normal timer.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

The stand looks awesome!!! I would never have time to do that...considering I worked on an essay all day today


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> The stand looks awesome!!! I would never have time to do that...considering I worked on an essay all day today


Thank you ZTM!
When do you get out of school again?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

This Friday


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> This Friday


Woot! roud:

You're almost done! Haha.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah. And then I get to go to Phoenix, Disneyland, and camp!!!

Plus a whole bunch of summer homework :/


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Yeah. And then I get to go to Phoenix, Disneyland, and camp!!!
> 
> Plus a whole bunch of summer homework :/


Oh yeah i forgot to tell you, i'm going to be out of town when you're here.  I'm really bummed!

All we have is summer reading. Do you have written homework over summer vacation? o_o


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Oh yeah i forgot to tell you, i'm going to be out of town when you're here.  I'm really bummed!
> 
> All we have is summer reading. Do you have written homework over summer vacation? o_o


Aaaw, I was looking forward to possibly meeting you

Yeah we have to read and write an essay about the reading. And we have to check out an AP textbook and do bookwork from that. AND a chemistry packet


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Yeah we have to read and write an essay about the reading. And we have to check out an AP textbook and do bookwork from that. AND a chemistry packet


boohoo.  We had summer reading every year of HS. At least two books (three this past year and two papers and a "journal") and a paper. We had summer AP chem classes this past year, but it wasn't much. Get it done early. You won't regret it 

As for the timer, I doubt it would even work with the ballasts in your light. You;de have to rewire it with a new ballast or something :icon_mad:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> boohoo.  We had summer reading every year of HS. At least two books (three this past year and two papers and a "journal") and a paper. We had summer AP chem classes this past year, but it wasn't much. Get it done early. You won't regret it
> 
> As for the timer, I doubt it would even work with the ballasts in your light. You;de have to rewire it with a new ballast or something :icon_mad:


I thought of something else for the lights. What if I had two timers? The light fixture that i have has 2 plugs, one for half of the bulbs and another for the other half. Here's my idea:

8:00 AM - 11:30 AM [Bulbs 5-8/BACK]
11:31 AM - 12:30 PM [Bulbs 1-8/ALL]
12:31 PM - 4:00 PM [Bulbs 1-4/FRONT]
4:00 PM [OFF]

8 hours daily of light. Yes/no on this idea? Lol.



> Aaaw, I was looking forward to possibly meeting you
> 
> Yeah we have to read and write an essay about the reading. And we have to check out an AP textbook and do bookwork from that. AND a chemistry packet


I know, i was looking forward to it too! Maybe next summer if you stop by here again? 

That's a lot of work for summer. I'm glad i don't have to do that, LOL. Good luck.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I'm spraying the plastic rim of the aquarium black right now. Everything should be ready to move in later today!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> I'm spraying the plastic rim of the aquarium black right now. Everything should be ready to move in later today!


roud:


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## nemosreef (Oct 19, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> 8:00 AM - 11:30 AM [Bulbs 5-8/BACK]
> 11:31 AM - 12:30 PM [Bulbs 1-8/ALL]
> 12:31 PM - 4:00 PM [Bulbs 1-4/FRONT]
> 4:00 PM [OFF]
> ...


Yes you could do this. This is exactly what I did when I had a reef tank. By the way stand looks good.


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## nickcamp12345 (May 2, 2009)

first off, i'd like to say that the stand looks amazingg. im really tired so i cant tell if its black or really dark brown, but i think it would have been better with a lighter color(personal preference), but that doesnt matter cause it looks great!

second, in my school, summer reading is a joke cause all the teachers are lazy and just say it'll be extra credit for the kids that actually do it. im glad im going to be done thursday and graduating in a week.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

nickcamp12345 said:


> first off, i'd like to say that the stand looks amazingg. im really tired so i cant tell if its black or really dark brown, but i think it would have been better with a lighter color(personal preference), but that doesnt matter cause it looks great!
> 
> second, in my school, summer reading is a joke cause all the teachers are lazy and just say it'll be extra credit for the kids that actually do it. im glad im going to be done thursday and graduating in a week.


The stand is actually a creamy black/grey, it just looks a bit different in the photos. It's not as dark as it looks.
And thanks!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*June 7, 2010* - Update #6

The tank and stand are inside! It still has to be positioned to line up with the light (which also needs to be hung), but i think it looks AMAZING. I'm super excited to get it all filled up!


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

*AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank - [TANK + STAND ARE INSIDE!]*

Gonna be awesome!


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## nemosreef (Oct 19, 2007)

Looks great.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Heyooo!
That looks great. I'm envious


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Looking good!

How did your search for SMS turn out?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice! I love my 150 the size is truely something to stare at.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Chrisinator said:


> Gonna be awesome!





nemosreef said:


> Looks great.





CL said:


> Heyooo!
> That looks great. I'm envious





Craigthor said:


> Nice! I love my 150 the size is truely something to stare at.





xJaypex said:


> Looking good!


Thanks all!



xJaypex said:


> How did your search for SMS turn out?


I'm going to call up a few stores tomorrow morning to see if anyone local has it in stock. If i can find a few bags of it, then that's definitely what i'm going to use as a substrate.


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

Wow, great stuff~! Subscribed!


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

so are you going to utilize the top that matches the stand. I DO like the look now, but wait until you try to to take pics and you have a ton of light escaping and over exposing your pictures. You may want to think about it. I'm probably going to make a 3-sided cover for my rimless tank to use during photo-shoots for this reason. plus, if you scape it then lean back to look at the tank, the light hurts your eyes after a few hours of fiddling/viewing/fiddling/viewing/fiddling/viewing etc.

looks good though

nice and neat timer/outlet setup


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Nate McFin said:


> Wow, great stuff~! Subscribed!


YAY another subscriber.  Thanks.



> so are you going to utilize the top that matches the stand. I DO like the look now, but wait until you try to to take pics and you have a ton of light escaping and over exposing your pictures. You may want to think about it. I'm probably going to make a 3-sided cover for my rimless tank to use during photo-shoots for this reason. plus, if you scape it then lean back to look at the tank, the light hurts your eyes after a few hours of fiddling/viewing/fiddling/viewing/fiddling/viewing etc.
> 
> looks good though
> 
> nice and neat timer/outlet setup


I would REALLLLLLLLY like to use the canopy, but it's not going to work with my current light fixture. I AM going to refinish it though, and hopefully in a few months i'll sell the 72" fixture and get two 36" fixtures to mount under the hood. I'm also going to change the top of the hood a bit by making the whole top TWO pieces of wood, so i can lift up two sides (and mount a light fixture to each side); if that makes any sense. The current fixture is just too bulky and it takes up a lot of room even if i rest it on the top of the tank, and put the canopy over it.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

tank looks very nice in your room. Did it feel like christmas when you got it? Subscribed


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> tank looks very nice in your room. Did it feel like christmas when you got it? Subscribed


Thanks dude!

It did feel like christmas in a way, lol. It really hasn't even sunk in yet, since i had been trying to convince my parents to let me get a larger aquarium for so long. 

My dad is picking up 150 lbs. of Turface Pro© from a local store, and he should be home soon. Pictures of the tank with substrate will be posted later today! :biggrin: $13.29 per 50lb. bag seems like a steal to me lol, considering it is basically the same stuff as eco-complete (so i've heard).

Sometime i'm going to order some rootmedic tabs as well, since i've been really wanting to try those out.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

An option to consider would be to strip the 72" fixture and use it like a retro-fit kit in your canopy.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

yikesjason said:


> An option to consider would be to strip the 72" fixture and use it like a retro-fit kit in your canopy.


True, but i'm not really sure if i want to take it apart like that.
Something to think about though.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

A retro fit would be good for a tank like this so you can have good coverage from front to back.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> Thanks dude!
> 
> It did feel like christmas in a way, lol. It really hasn't even sunk in yet, since i had been trying to convince my parents to let me get a larger aquarium for so long.
> 
> ...


50-60 lbs of Turface will probably do your whole tank. I've got about 40lbs in my 150 with my driftwood and about 2-3" on average depth.

Also my only qualm about a canopy is it makes it a PITA to get in and work in the tank. I wish all the time I had a canopy on my tank to reduce the glare from the MH when I take pictures but in the end it is so much eaier to get in and work on the tank without one.

RootMedic tabs are sweet I use a ton of them in my setup.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

I would really recommend getting pressurized co2. Try really hard to convince them to let you. If you got pressurized co2 then this tank would be insane! Looking forward to the pictures of turface pro. i was gonna try SMS but then i just got eco complete. I heard its really light so that might be a problem for you. Maybe santa will get you pressuized co2?


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Start with a tank =D
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/for/1771767725.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/for/1743890202.html


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> 50-60 lbs of Turface will probably do your whole tank. I've got about 40lbs in my 150 with my driftwood and about 2-3" on average depth.
> 
> Also my only qualm about a canopy is it makes it a PITA to get in and work in the tank. I wish all the time I had a canopy on my tank to reduce the glare from the MH when I take pictures but in the end it is so much eaier to get in and work on the tank without one.
> 
> RootMedic tabs are sweet I use a ton of them in my setup.


Well dang... 50 lbs is all i really need? I guess i have 100lbs extra then, LOL. Oh well, someone in AAPE will want some if there's extra.

I've heard a lot of great things about rootmedic, especially when used with turface. I hope they do wonders for me too!



> I would really recommend getting pressurized co2. Try really hard to convince them to let you. If you got pressurized co2 then this tank would be insane! Looking forward to the pictures of turface pro. i was gonna try SMS but then i just got eco complete. I heard its really light so that might be a problem for you. Maybe santa will get you pressuized co2?


I'd really like to go pressurized with this tank, but unfortunately, it's just not going to happen. I just got extremely unlucky with that 10lb pressurized tank, and my parents definitely aren't going to allow another one. 

Oh well, i think this tank will still look beautiful once it's all done!
I'm going to invest in good ferts and root tabs, so maybe that will help a bit.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*June 8, 2010* - Update #7

It's a beautiful (but hot!) day here in Phoenix!









Washing buckets.
















Turface Pro©.









I spray painted the back of a small 2.5 gallon to see how it would look. Tomorrow morning i'm going to do the same with the 150.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

> I'd really like to go pressurized with this tank, but unfortunately, it's just not going to happen. I just got extremely unlucky with that 10lb pressurized tank, and my parents definitely aren't going to allow another one.
> 
> Oh well, i think this tank will still look beautiful once it's all done!
> I'm going to invest in good ferts and root tabs, so maybe that will help a bit.


Yea, i read about what happened to you. That must have sucked so bad. Also the turface looks pretty good. Is it light?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

VadimShevchuk said:


> Yea, i read about what happened to you. That must have sucked so bad. Also the turface looks pretty good. Is it light?


Probably the Natural color and is very light in density. This allows it to have a really high CEC and absorb all the good stuff.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> Yea, i read about what happened to you. That must have sucked so bad. Also the turface looks pretty good. Is it light?


Light as in color? Yeah, but it's a little darker when submerged. 

I decided that it didn't really matter what color it was, since i was just going to have a big carpet to cover it all up.



> Probably the Natural color and is very light in density. This allows it to have a really high CEC and absorb all the good stuff.


CEC = ? :hihi:


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

it is very light as in it doesn't weigh very much. The light weight does make planting tricky with smaller plants. But the price is right for so much substrate.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cation_exchange_capacity

In soil science, cation exchange capacity (CEC) is the capacity of a soil for ion exchange of cations between the soil and the soil solution. CEC is used as a measure of fertility, nutrient retention capacity, and the capacity to protect groundwater from cation contamination. Cations can also be easier to understand by just adding the group number.

The quantity of positively charged ions (cations) that a clay mineral or similar material can accommodate on its negatively charged surface is expressed as milli-ion equivalent per 100 g, or more commonly as milliequivalent (meq) per 100 g or cmol/kg. Clays are aluminosilicates in which some of the aluminium and silicon ions have been replaced by elements with different valence, or charge. For example, aluminium (Al3+) may be replaced by iron (Fe2+) or magnesium (Mg2+), leading to a net negative charge. This charge attracts cations when the clay is immersed in an electrolyte such as salty water and causes an electrical double layer. The cation-exchange capacity is often expressed in terms of its contribution per unit pore volume,


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

yikesjason said:


> it is very light as in it doesn't weigh very much. The light weight does make planting tricky with smaller plants. But the price is right for so much substrate.



Oh i see. Yeah i was reading that some of it usually floats up a little bit when it is first submerged, but it usually sinks down pretty well after a few weeks.

Should i maybe put a layer of something else over the top, or do you think this will be fine?

Thanks for the info about CEC craigthor. :biggrin:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Wheres all the grass?  

Nice tank tho


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

chase127 said:


> Wheres all the grass?
> 
> Nice tank tho


Welcome to the desert. :icon_lol:


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

don't bother putting anything over it, the turface likes to raise to the surface. I tried to cap mine with sand and it only lasted about a month.


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## nemosreef (Oct 19, 2007)

I don't know if you did this with the 2.5gal. or not but make sure when you paint the back of the tank you lay the tank on the front side with the backside facing up. This will deep the paint from running if you happen to spray too much in one area.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

yikesjason said:


> don't bother putting anything over it, the turface likes to raise to the surface. I tried to cap mine with sand and it only lasted about a month.


Alright well i hope it'll be fine.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

nemosreef said:


> I don't know if you did this with the 2.5gal. or not but make sure when you paint the back of the tank you lay the tank on the front side with the backside facing up. This will deep the paint from running if you happen to spray too much in one area.


Nope, i didn't do that. I won't be able to put the 150 on it's side though, so i guess i'm just going to have to be really careful to not spray too much in one area.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> Alright well i hope it'll be fine.


I have no cap on mine, you can check out my thread for pictures of it. Out of 200 runners of C.Parva that I planted not more then 5-6 floated up and had to be replanted.

Craig


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## nemosreef (Oct 19, 2007)

Yep. You will just have to be careful.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

nice court and pool. I play basketball in school (center). Post pictures of the painted 150. Hopefully it goes well. Are you outta school already? We are done on Friday.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> I have no cap on mine, you can check out my thread for pictures of it. Out of 200 runners of C.Parva that I planted not more then 5-6 floated up and had to be replanted.
> 
> Craig


Sounds like it will be fine then! 

Your riparium looks really good by the way.  I like the c. parva carpet.




> nice court and pool. I play basketball in school (center). Post pictures of the painted 150. Hopefully it goes well. Are you outta school already? We are done on Friday.


Thanks.

Yeah, we got out about 2 weeks ago.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

Latex paint works well. It peels off really easily if you decide to remove it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

FSM said:


> Latex paint works well. It peels off really easily if you decide to remove it.


True; maybe i should pick up some of that instead of using spray paint?


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

how did painting the tank worked out?


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

did you have trouble washing your turface??? how many times did you rinse it?? I have turface and I'm in the same process



AzFishKid said:


> *June 8, 2010* - Update #7
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> *June 8, 2010* - Update #7
> 
> It's a beautiful (but hot!) day here in Phoenix!


*dies* Are all backyards in Arizona that big?:icon_eek:


----------



## daversa (Mar 24, 2010)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> *dies* Are all backyards in Arizona that big?:icon_eek:


It's amazing how much land you can get in PHX for cheap. Beautiful new homes too. Although I think AZFishKid's family is still doing pretty well for themselves! I've never seen a home court that nice outside of Cribs. :red_mouth

I really miss that about Phoenix, Flagstaff is silly expensive for a small town.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Dang dude you got your own basketball court, two ponds, an awesome pool and no grass that you have to mow.
*jealous* :biggrin:


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow...my backyard is probably about the size of that basketball court:red_mouth


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> how did painting the tank worked out?


I decided to use spray paint instead of latex, and it turned out great. I got some paint on the wall (and myself :hihi, but besides that, i didn't really have any issues. The fumes were pretty bad inside the house for a while. :S



> did you have trouble washing your turface??? how many times did you rinse it?? I have turface and I'm in the same process


I rinsed each batch 3 times; then i filled them all up fully, poked a few holes at the bottom, and let them drain. That was a pretty efficient method i think.




> *dies* Are all backyards in Arizona that big?


Nope, not all. Some are really small, and some are really big. The area where i live has larger lots.



> It's amazing how much land you can get in PHX for cheap. Beautiful new homes too. Although I think AZFishKid's family is still doing pretty well for themselves! I've never seen a home court that nice outside of Cribs.
> 
> I really miss that about Phoenix, Flagstaff is silly expensive for a small town.


The basketball court floor has sparky (ASU mascot) on it. :hihi: 

Flagstaff is a nice area. It's a lot different up there then down here though! Is it still cool in Flagstaff? It's too hot here... Gahh.



> Dang dude you got your own basketball court, two ponds, an awesome pool and no grass that you have to mow.
> *jealous*


I spend a lot of time in our backyard, especially near the ponds. I'm pretty thankful for it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*June 9, 2010* - Update #8

Today I:
1) Spray painted the back of the tank.
2) Hung the light fixture.
3) Moved the aquarium into position.
4) Started aquascaping (finally!).

Here's the scape that i came up with so far. I need some recommendations to make it better. Please :help:!

My plans:
- E. Tenellus carpet in the front.
- Large java fern on the far right hill, and the other on the hill to the left of the "river".
- Blyxa japonica scattered around amongst the rocks.
- Maybe a large amazon sword in the far back left corner?
- Some driftwood, but i haven't decided where yet.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Needs more dirt, IMO 
haha, but I would suggest some height for your scape. Is Phoenix anywhere near wild manzy? You might be able to collect some if you ask the owner of the property or something..


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Needs more dirt, IMO
> haha, but I would suggest some height for your scape. Is Phoenix anywhere near wild manzy? You might be able to collect some if you ask the owner of the property or something..


HAHA well i have about 100lbs left... so where do you think i need more? In the back/on the hills?

I don't know of any places around here where i can collect some manzanita, but i bet i could get some nice pieces from Badcopnofishtank.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> HAHA well i have about 100lbs left... so where do you think i need more? In the back/on the hills?
> 
> I don't know of any places around here where i can collect some manzanita, but i bet i could get some nice pieces from Badcopnofishtank.


Well, your substrate looks a little shallow in the front, which would mean you would need to add some to the back as well to preserve the slope.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Well, your substrate looks a little shallow in the front, which would mean you would need to add some to the back as well to preserve the slope.


Ah i see, ok. 

Good, or more in the back?
Is the rock layout OK? Any suggestions?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That looks good. Maybe scoop a bit of what's in the front to the back IMO. As for the rocks; it's hard to tell without the rest of the scape in there.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> That looks good. Maybe scoop a bit of what's in the front to the back IMO. As for the rocks; it's hard to tell without the rest of the scape in there.


Better, yes?
(Sorry about the poor quality of the pictures)


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Yeah haha. That looks good


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Yeah haha. That looks good


Now to find some driftwood. I sent badcop a PM. roud:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Holy deep substrate! That Turface sure goes a long way for the money! I think you need a few boulders to put in there.


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## nemosreef (Oct 19, 2007)

The tank is realy starting to shape up. Looks good.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> Holy deep substrate! That Turface sure goes a long way for the money! I think you need a few boulders to put in there.


Well i got all of those rocks from my backyard, and there's plenty of more big ones, so i'll take a look tomorrow morning and see if i can find some. :biggrin:



> The tank is realy starting to shape up. Looks good.


Thanks


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

just line up the front substrate so it looks clean...also, isn't badcop in Arizona??? I order manzanita from them before and it was shipped from Arizona...maybe you can go to their store and hand pick nice ones!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

chris.rivera3 said:


> just line up the front substrate so it looks clean...also, isn't badcop in Arizona??? I order manzanita from them before and it was shipped from Arizona...maybe you can go to their store and hand pick nice ones!


Yeah he lives in tucson though, which is about 3 hours away from me i think.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

get some boulders in that monster! Those just dont do this huge tank any justice.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> get some boulders in that monster! Those just dont do this huge tank any justice.


Haha yeah, i'm going to swap them out for some larger ones later today. :icon_smil


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

get some bigger stones........and more wood....


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Got any pics of the bigger rocks? :biggrin:


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

joke joke
um, yeah methinks it needs more height to the hardscape.


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Ok, so i'm thinking about taking a different direction with this tank. What about something like this? It's half water / half land. I think this setup is absolutely stunning.
> 
> While i know this would require extensive research and probably a lot of extra equipment, i think this would be a really cool thing for me to do. I would definitely have a higher water level though, and not as much land- since i do still want to keep a few discus. I was thinking maybe 16" deep for water and the remaining 8" up top for land?
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on this?


That is a Vivarium that someone here in Minnesota has. He originally had it as a saltwater reef, then converted it to this. Links...

His own personal website-->http://energyreef.com/index.html
Dendroboard-->http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/43615-large-vivarium-construction.html

He bought driftwood from me so naturally I volunteered to deliver it so I could see this monster tank.

Good luck with the 150g!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Didn't get a chance to swap out the rocks today, but I will tomorrow.

And yes, i know the scape needs more height. I have to pick up some driftwood first. The pieces that i currently have are too small for this tank.


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## rocksrgneiss (Nov 25, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Ok, so i'm thinking about taking a different direction with this tank. What about something like this? It's half water / half land. I think this setup is absolutely stunning.
> 
> While i know this would require extensive research and probably a lot of extra equipment, i think this would be a really cool thing for me to do. I would definitely have a higher water level though, and not as much land- since i do still want to keep a few discus. I was thinking maybe 16" deep for water and the remaining 8" up top for land?
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on this?





hydrophyte said:


> That would only be around 50 gallons of water, which doesn't sound like enough room for a group of discus. I just think that it would not be so convincing to have such a small space for the above water part. Are you determined to have discus in this setup? Plus, a real nice thing about having a tank with a lower water level is the view in through the water surface. With the water up high you would not really see that effect.
> 
> If you could hang up the light above the tank you could have a riparium with plants growing up and out of the top, but that would look best with a rimless tank.
> 
> ...





I think you could have the best of both worlds if you didn't try to make the 'land' extend across the entire rear of the tank, by land I mean actual ground with depth. I've seen several tanks that had a land area occupying 25% of one side that worked very well as a paludarium, just not the typical orientation - 8" of head room would be enough to manage that and achieve enough water volume for plants and fish, if the BG were flat for the most part. Water could pass under a stilted structure (stilted in the rear of the 'floating island'), allowing fish to use the area beneath and create a cave-like effect. Or you could make a short peninsula that never touches the front glass, sort of like a corner of land instead of the entire length of the rear. 

And whatever BG style you choose for the land side could be extended above (and possibly below) the waterline across the back of the tank and planted to some degree, but nearly flat would be ideal to preserve as much water volume as possible. There are some vines and Tillandsia/Bromeliads that could tolerate higher lighting at the top and still be small enough to fit the scale of the area, maybe even an orchid or two. I don't know of many ferns that like growing that bright, but if there were enough bromeliads and epiphytes creating shade, some ferns might be possible.

Small plants would be a must for the land portion though and any BG where plants would be mounted. It could take some researching to find out what would be suitable. I'd be happy to offer a few suggestions, if you go the paludarium route. 

Making a BG, whether out of real rocks, epoxy, or grout is just an illusion anyway, so a little depth in the right areas and some continuity in the design go a long way. I think you could do what is pictured above in miniature, it would just take some creative thinking, an artistic touch, and a little elbow grease.

Just throwing out some ideas.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Look at my Riparium, the early design was mostly South/ Central American plantings. Could be run with out the tops.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Better, yes?
> (Sorry about the poor quality of the pictures)


Hey I used to live in Tucson. Mt. Lemmon there is covered the better part of the way up with manzanita. If you were willing to put in some hiking I bet you could find some amazing large pieces of old weathered manzanita up in the mountains somewhere down there in AZ.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Badcopnofishtank has some nice large stumps available, so i'm hopefully going to purchase these two from him.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Those two pieces look extra crispyroud:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Also D.S. Drifter had some really cool Root pieces in the SnS section over the last couple of days, price is nice also.

Craig


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> Also D.S. Drifter had some really cool Root pieces in the SnS section over the last couple of days, price is nice also.
> 
> Craig


Yeah he has some really cool driftwood, but I couldn't find anything that was similar to what i want.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*June 13, 2010* - Update #9

Ok, i added some larger rocks. I think it looks a TON better, but i'm not 100% happy with it yet. Any suggestions?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it would look better with those pieces of wood


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> I think it would look better with those pieces of wood


Yeah most definitely. Both pieces are going to be a total of $80 + shipping, which i think is kinda pricey... but they both look great and i'm sure it will be worth it. :smile:

Haven't gotten an email/PM back from him yet, though.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That does look a lot better! I think that the wood will complete the scape


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> That does look a lot better! I think that the wood will complete the scape


Can't wait until it's done! 

I'm going out of town for 2 weeks starting this Saturday, so i'm hoping to have the driftwood by then and the carpet started.

I haven't decided on what plant though: e. tenellus or marsilea minuta? Can they both be started emmersed? Which one would do better with this setup?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Few pictures of my fish that are temporarily being kept in the 10g:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Awesome albino lfbn pleco. I know for a fact that mm can be grown emersed. I grew e. ten. emersed in my 40 breeder, but I don't remember if it grew very much. It did grow, though.

I prefer e. ten. over mm any day.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Awesome albino lfbn pleco. I know for a fact that mm can be grown emersed. I grew e. ten. emersed in my 40 breeder, but I don't remember if it grew very much. It did grow, though.
> 
> I prefer e. ten. over mm any day.


So do I, but i like them both.


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## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


>


Is that a green oto?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VincentK said:


> Is that a green oto?


Haha i wish. He's just a standard oto, i think the light made him look green in the picture.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I was researching whether e. tenellus can be grown emersed successfully, and from what I read, it usually melts away/the leaves turn brown.

Could i instead plant them in water that is slightly higher then the e. tenellus?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Well, i ordered 100 root medic tabs (50 comprehensive and 50 iron intense), and they should be here sometime next week.

However, i am leaving tomorrow for 2 weeks, so nothing will be happening with this tank's progression until i return.


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## kleankord (May 13, 2010)

subscribed so i can see how it turns out


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

kleankord said:


> subscribed so i can see how it turns out


Cool, thanks! :flick:


The 100 RootMedic tabs should arrive at my house in a few days. I'm also going to order that driftwood soon so i'll have everything by the time we arrive back in Arizona.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

bigger rocks too?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rountreesj said:


> bigger rocks too?


Oh i put in larger rocks a long time ago, i guess i never uploaded a picture. :hihi:

I think it looks really good, but i'm going to post a picture of it when i get home to see if you guys think there's anything that i should change.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Do you think it would look too crowded with 3 different types of tetras? I was thinking 30-40 cardinals, 10-15 rummy nose, and 8 or so congo tetras.


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## Mossy (Jun 7, 2010)

Awesome Tank! Where do you get your fish? cause I live in AZ too


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Mossy said:


> Awesome Tank! Where do you get your fish? cause I live in AZ too


Thanks!

From my old tank, i got the cardinals from Phoenix Tropical Fish. It's kinda a beaten up store, but he imports some REALLY nice and healthy fish.

I got the rummy nose tetras at aquatouch. Also very healthy.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

AzFishKid said:


> Do you think it would look too crowded with 3 different types of tetras? I was thinking 30-40 cardinals, 10-15 rummy nose, and 8 or so congo tetras.


Pick one.

As hard as it will be, I think it'll look better that way.

-Andrew


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

A Hill said:


> Pick one.
> 
> As hard as it will be, I think it'll look better that way.
> 
> -Andrew


AHHHH that's too hard! 

Maybe cardinals and congo tetras? Or ember tetras and congos? I don't know if i'm going to be able to choose just one species... hahahaha. :biggrin:

I thought the congo tetras would be nice since they're a little larger.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I've never kept discus, but do you think that the long fins of the congos (an African fish anyway) would be a target for discus? Are discus as docile as they would seem?
Though, they are cichlids...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> I've never kept discus, but do you think that the long fins of the congos (an African fish anyway) would be a target for discus? Are discus as docile as they would seem?
> Though, they are cichlids...


Hmm.. good question.

Edit: After doing a quick google search, it seems like congos and discus can be kept together peacefully. I'm going to do more research though, just to make sure.
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/v...rt=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&vote=viewresult


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I found a website about co2 tank disasters. Some of them are quite interesting, and after reading them i realized how many mistakes i made when i purchased my co2 cylinder back in December (thankfully, it sounds like they're common mistakes!). :hihi: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-rocket.html

There's even one that sounds very similar to my incident. 

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995

"_My real reason for posting is another co2 problem. For me it was a 
disaster but you may find it amusing and hopefully we can all learn from 
my experience. My co2 20# tank ran out so I took it to the local 
supplier and got a new tank. It was last February and the temperature in 
the van was around 60. I propped the tank on the passenger side and took 
off with the heater on high. After driving about 15 of the 30 mile trip 
I had just turned off the highway onto a city street going about 25 mph 
when all of a sudden an explosion occurred. The van was instantly filled 
with fog. The safety valve released on the co2 tank which dumps the 
entire contents. I could neither see nor breathe but I sure could 
panic. I got the van stopped and jumped out gasping for breath. Then I 
realized I hadn't put it in park so I had to chase it down the street. 
Got it stopped and parked with the tank still going. I was shaking 
pretty bad and realized how lucky I was not to have had it go off while 
doing 55 on the highway. Drove back and got another tank. This one was 
put in the back of the van.
Moral: when transporting any tank of gas the 3000 psi makes it a 
potential disaster. If you have a car, put it in the trunk. Never let 
the tank get hot by leaving in a closed car._"


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

What a knob, he had the heater blowing on the tank....Also co2 isn't 3000psi..


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

xmas_one said:


> What a knob, he had the heater blowing on the tank....Also co2 isn't 3000psi..


Source: http://www.outbackequipped.com/safety.asp

" . A CO2 cylinder is filled with liquid CO2 by weight. At the time of fill the temperature of the charge is extremely cold and the pressure is around 100 psi.

. When a fully charged CO2 cylinder warms up to room temperature (70 F), the pressure inside the cylinder increases to 837 psi.

. When the same cylinder reaches 87.9 F the entire charge becomes a gas no matter what the pressure. A fully charged CO2 cylinder at 87.9 F will have an internal pressure of approximately 1100 psi.

. At 120 F the same cylinder will have an internal pressure of nearly 2000 psi. This cylinder at 120 oF now has an internal pressure greater than the marked service pressure of a cylinder that is properly filled, not overfilled.

. *At 155 F the same cylinder will reach a pressure of 3000 psi, a pressure great enough activate the safety vent on the valve, venting the CO2 charge.*"


I guess it's possible, but it must have been a REALLY hot heater, haha.
I found this on a website that sells some different type of co2 tank, but i bet the information is similar.


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## Dr. Acula (Oct 14, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> AHHHH that's too hard!
> 
> Maybe cardinals and congo tetras? Or ember tetras and congos? I don't know if i'm going to be able to choose just one species... hahahaha. :biggrin:
> 
> I thought the congo tetras would be nice since they're a little larger.


I think you might be able to get away with the congos and either the cardinals or embers. I don't know, it seems like it would be alright because of the size difference. Ideally, I would just go with one, though, to show off the discus more and look less busy.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Dr. Acula said:


> I think you might be able to get away with the congos and either the cardinals or embers. I don't know, it seems like it would be alright because of the size difference. Ideally, I would just go with one, though, to show off the discus more and look less busy.


True. I think i'll just go with cardinals.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> . When the same cylinder reaches 87.9 F the entire charge becomes a gas no matter what the pressure. A fully charged CO2 cylinder at 87.9 F will have an internal pressure of approximately 1100 psi.


This isn't exactly true, it is not a gas, but rather a supercritical fluid, which has the properties of a gas, as well as properties of a liquid.
But that doesn't really matter


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I'd really like to try pressurized co2 again, but i somehow need to convince my parents (which will be difficult after my prior experience, lol). 

What if i had like a 2.5 or 5lb. tank? I know that's kind of a small size for a 150 gallon, but it's maybe a little safer?

What other safety precautions could i take / should have taken?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Smaller cylinders are just as safe 
It was a freak accident, though, it would have been a better idea to not keep the tank between your legs in the hottest major city in America (only kidding, who woulda thought the thing would self vent?) If you're really worried about it, put the thing in a seat by itself, strap it in with the seatbelt (first pull it out all the way so it will self- lock on the cylinder). Make sure it's snug, and maybe put a blanket on/ around it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Smaller cylinders are just as safe
> It was a freak accident, though, it would have been a better idea to not keep the tank between your legs in the hottest major city in America (only kidding, who woulda thought the thing would self vent?) If you're really worried about it, put the thing in a seat by itself, strap it in with the seatbelt (first pull it out all the way so it will self- lock on the cylinder). Make sure it's snug, and maybe put a blanket on/ around it.


I know.. in between the legs = bad idea. :hihi: A friend told me how he transports his Co2 tank and it sounded like it works out pretty well. He said he puts his tank in an ice chest with some ice to keep it cool, and straps it down in his trunk.

If i had the option of picking up another tank, i would. But my parents are concerned about something like this happening again.

And the problem is that we aren't sure why it depressurized. Was it overfilled? Was it too hot? Did something fail? We really haven't found out what happened.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Parents :icon_roll:
What do they know, anyway?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Parents :icon_roll:
> What do they know, anyway?


That's the thing, i've done quite a bit of research about co2 systems (although i could have done some more research about how to safely transport them :hihi and they haven't. 

Would putting a metal box over the tank cause the temperature to rise a significant amount? Because i think the issue is the liquid co2 being shot out, not the tank exploding or something... my aquarium is in my bedroom, after all- so they'd like it to be safe. 

I know.. kinda over the top... but whatever might get me a co2 tank is worth trying!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

It wouldn't raise the temperature (unless it was in the sun or something.)
A wood box would work just as well to protect you from liquid CO2 if it were to somehow shoot out during a self- vent.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> It wouldn't raise the temperature (unless it was in the sun or something.)
> A wood box would work just as well to protect you from liquid CO2 if it were to somehow shoot out during a self- vent.


True, true.

Maybe there is some hope lol. :bounce:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

You know, putting it in your stand would serve the same purpose


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> You know, putting it in your stand would serve the same purpose


True LOL.

Now i just feel stupid. roud:


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Stop stressing so much over Co2, and just get it going already...lol

Seriously though, in the past I had a 200lb Co2 tank that we used as a fill station for paintballing. That tank (as well as the small tanks on our guns) seen about every kind of abuse you could imagine without any issues ever. 

Tell your parents that the actual fish tank is more of a threat than the Co2 tank. 
150 gallons of water in one hand, 20lbs of Co2 in the other. Which would you rather see blow out in your home?...lol


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Just got co2! Tell your parents that accidents happen, i think you should get atleast a 10 lb tank for a 150 or else you will be going every month to get a refil, and the more you go the more chance of the same thing happening again.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

jinx© said:


> Stop stressing so much over Co2, and just get it going already...lol
> 
> Seriously though, in the past I had a 200lb Co2 tank that we used as a fill station for paintballing. That tank (as well as the small tanks on our guns) seen about every kind of abuse you could imagine without any issues ever.
> 
> ...


Yeah at work we have had 200lb helium tanks fall over with the regulator and everything and they haven't been hurt at all by it. Stop stressing and get the Co2 you need it and your tank cannot function right without it. Tell your parents with all the money you have invested in the tank so far, you would be throwing it all away without pressurized Co2.


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## mattrt09 (Jun 12, 2010)

this is looking good


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## Solid (Jul 19, 2009)

Ive had several safety valves on my paintball co2 tanks fail and it shoots out all the CO2, kinda scary but not very dangerous. You could get some freeze burns but as long as your not holding it you should be fine, so if its in your stand you should be fine. Now ive also seen a 5000psi compressed air tank valve fail and the tank fly around like a spiraling rocket. Now that could have killed someone. 

Now to convince your parents, don't tell them that story. Maybe you could try getting a neoprene or rubber tank cover and a tank stand with clamp to transport it. It doesn't make it much safer, but it looks safer and more professional.
Something like:
http://www.mathesontrigas.com/pdfs/products/model-710-wall-mounted-cylinder-holder.pdf
or 
http://www.mathesontrigas.com/pdfs/products/model-700-cylinder-stand.pdf

Also you could read this:
http://www.mathesontrigas.com/pdfs/products/guide-to-safe-handling-of-compressed-gases-publ-03.pdf


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank - [Under Construction]*

Like I said, I would definitely get co2 if my parents didn't have a say in it. I know it's important for a healthy planted tank, so I'm going to talk to them about it and maybe they'll realize that it's not that dangerous.

I'll show them the forum posts too, lol. My dad already looks at my journal often I think.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Ahhh...parents. If I had my way I would have around 3 tanks right now! IMO, I don't think CO2 is needed for a planted aquarium. It is a good thing to have if you are keeping picky plants, but not totally needed. Why not raise the fixture above the tank a little and keep it low light? Just my opinion though. Great journal BTW. Really well organized and easy to read.
Regards,
Jake


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> Ahhh...parents. If I had my way I would have around 3 tanks right now! IMO, I don't think CO2 is needed for a planted aquarium. It is a good thing to have if you are keeping picky plants, but not totally needed. Why not raise the fixture above the tank a little and keep it low light? Just my opinion though. Great journal BTW. Really well organized and easy to read.
> Regards,
> Jake


Thank you! I spent a long time on the first post... and i converted everything into liters / centimeters / etc so it's readable by all. roud: Haha.

I've had planted tanks for a few years, so i think it's time for me to invest in pressurized co2. I'd really like to try some more challenging plants. And if i had pressurized co2, i'd do a HC carpet instead of a e. tenellus or mm.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

I have never been privy to a co2 accident that was dangerous, usually only aggravating and inconvenient. 10lb tank and a good quality reg. and you will be just fine. Tell parents this is not a toxic gas, not very dangerous pressures. If it is securely transported in normal temps, and secured from tipping in the stand, I doubt if you will ever have any trouble. the larger tanks are far superior to the paintball tanks in durability. Never had one iota of trouble from mine...


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

Plus, I would venture to say 75 percent of algae issues includes fluctuation co2 levels, something you will never thwart with DIY co2.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Sigh.. attempt #1 failed.

I know this may seem a little over the top, but i don't think it's going to be worth it if i can't get pressurized co2 on this massive tank. I mind as well either downgrade again or just call it quits. I really don't feel like going the low-tech route again. I had too many algae outbreaks, and my plants never really flourished like i wanted them to.

I guess i could go the SW route, lol. But that doesn't look as fun as planted tanks.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

so, it's not gonna happen? affffffff riparium time?

Low-tech rocky, cichlids with some driftwood and all the plants above...... could work low-tech co2 wise.....hydrophite...input? craigthor input? others? I don't see why it couldn't work, in fact at this stage some shifting in the planning could yield a friggin sweet setup yet....


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rountreesj said:


> so, it's not gonna happen? affffffff riparium time?
> 
> Low-tech rocky, cichlids with some driftwood and all the plants above...... could work low-tech co2 wise.....hydrophite...input? craigthor input? others? I don't see why it couldn't work, in fact at this stage some shifting in the planning could yield a friggin sweet setup yet....


My dad isn't convinced yet, and i honestly don't really think he cares anyway. But my mom said she'll at least consider it.

Worst case scenario, i'll probably do a riparium. That could be cool.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Riparium! I am telling you man, that light is perfect for a rip'! All you'd need is to get the Riparium Supply material!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

I forgot to add, you could have the water level at the very top of the tank and stil keep all your fish!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> I forgot to add, you could have the water level at the very top of the tank and stil keep all your fish!


How would that work as a riparium though? Any pictures?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> How would that work as a riparium though? Any pictures?


I know that Overstocked had a riparium like that, but all that you do is stick the riparium planters right under the rim of the tank. The water level would be a normal for a tank, right up to the rim.
Regards,
Jake


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> I know that Overstocked had a riparium like that, but all that you do is stick the riparium planters right under the rim of the tank. The water level would be a normal for a tank, right up to the rim.
> Regards,
> Jake


Oh ok that makes sense, but then what do you do with the aquatic scape?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Oh ok that makes sense, but then what do you do with the aquatic scape?


What ever you want! I would get alot of DW, and some rocks and make it a biotope. It all depends on what you like. 
Jake


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> What ever you want! I would get alot of DW, and some rocks and make it a biotope. It all depends on what you like.
> Jake


But doesn't that still require pressurized co2 for optimal results?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> But doesn't that still require pressurized co2 for optimal results?


The riparium supplies will block a decent amount of the light that is getting to the plants, and with the fixture raised, the only plants that would survive would be low light/low tech ones.
Jake


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> The riparium supplies will block a decent amount of the light that is getting to the plants, and with the fixture raised, the only plants that would survive would be low light/low tech ones.
> Jake


Ohh i see. Well it's something to consider.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

no, if you fill it to the top, you will end up spending as much money or more getting it all going, as a good co2 setup would work. No offense to all riparium owners but AZ... they really do require a little more planning to be great, i suggest use the rip ONLY as a plan B. co2 is easier to do, and plus you already know aquariums right, know anything about ripariums? wanna try something new on this huge setup? not if you can help it. Try to get the co2 first if you can...my $0.02


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rountreesj said:


> no, if you fill it to the top, you will end up spending as much money or more getting it all going, as a good co2 setup would work. No offense to all riparium owners but AZ... they really do require a little more planning to be great, i suggest use the rip ONLY as a plan B. co2 is easier to do, and plus you already know aquariums right, know anything about ripariums? wanna try something new on this huge setup? not if you can help it. Try to get the co2 first if you can...my $0.02


Oh yeah a riparium is absolutely only plan B at the moment. I think i'll be able to get pressurized co2, but it's just going to take a lot of convincing. Haha.

Although ripariums are nice, i don't think i want to get into something completely new.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

mow the grass for a year...err...rake the gravel for a year...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rountreesj said:


> mow the grass for a year...err...rake the gravel for a year...


LOL whats this grass stuff i hear everyone talking about? We don't got no "grass" in AZ. 

The cost isn't really an issue. The problem is getting my parent's permission. AGAIN.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> LOL whats this grass stuff i hear everyone talking about? We don't got no "grass" in AZ.


It's true...it's just catii everywhere you look


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> It's true...it's just catii everywhere you look


Have you come across a jumping cholla yet? They're fun. :icon_mrgr


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I've had a no pressurized co2 rule. No ifs ands or buts. At least you've _had_ pressurized co2. Not having super high light and pressurized co2 isn't the end of the world. 

There are plenty of plants that don't need high co2, just take it as a challenge 

-Andrew


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

A Hill said:


> Well, if it makes you feel any better, I've had a no pressurized co2 rule. No ifs ands or buts. At least you've _had_ pressurized co2. Not having super high light and pressurized co2 isn't the end of the world.
> 
> There are plenty of plants that don't need high co2, just take it as a challenge
> 
> -Andrew


Yeah i know... but i really want to use pressurized co2. And of course, now my mom isn't going to even consider it... so i'm not quite sure what i'm going to do. I'm not interested in going low tech again. I guess i should have thought about this before i purchased this aquarium.

Maybe it's time for me to move on to a new hobby. D: Lots of things to think about.

Sorry if i'm sounding kinda depressing and unrealistic. I'm just frustrated lol. >_>


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

You're making a big deal over nothing  just adapt and move on. Give it time and if the plants look terrible and algae is everywhere show your mom every chance you get. 

-Andrew


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

try asking them again in a couple of weeks. Or make a bargain with them like, 95 Average in school till christmas gets you co2 or something like that. My parents didnt really care about pressurized co2, just that they thought i was crazy to spend 300 dollars on a"gas" for a fish tank.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

A Hill said:


> You're making a big deal over nothing  just adapt and move on. Give it time and if the plants look terrible and algae is everywhere show your mom every chance you get.
> 
> -Andrew


Yeah i know i am, LOL. I tend to do that.
It's just frustrating because i had it all for like.. less than a day, and then something goes wrong (which may have or may not have been my fault) and now my parents are totally against it. I shouldn't have had it in between my legs, but it could have malfunctioned because of a number of things... the store employee had this tank sitting in his hot car before we purchased it, but it didn't go off at least 2 hours after that. It might have been too hot in our car, or maybe it was overfilled... i don't know. And now they're in this "pressurized tanks are always dangerous" mind-set. =/



> try asking them again in a couple of weeks. Or make a bargain with them like, 95 Average in school till christmas gets you co2 or something like that. My parents didnt really care about pressurized co2, just that they thought i was crazy to spend 300 dollars on a"gas" for a fish tank.


Well your parents also didn't see you get burned by it. :tongue:

My parents do like good grades though.. that may work. Muahaha. :icon_twis


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Like 4 pages and no pictures....


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> Like 4 pages and no pictures....


I've been out of town for the past week. I get back Thursday night.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I think you could make a nice SA Riparium with Discus and Tetras. Lots of plants from my original riparium scape were South/ Central American in region. Could also use Microwsord for a carpet plant.

Craig


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Craigthor said:


> I think you could make a nice SA Riparium with Discus and Tetras. Lots of plants from my original riparium scape were South/ Central American in region. Could also use Microwsord for a carpet plant.
> 
> Craig


Something to look into. I'll have to do some research though.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah this thread has gone on forever with no pictures. Can't you understand that my brain functions at a very basic level? My brain starts to hurt if I have to look at so many words.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> Yeah this thread has gone on forever with no pictures. Can't you understand that my brain functions at a very basic level? My brain starts to hurt if I have to look at so many words.


Lol sorry! Can't take any when i'm on the other end of the country. :hihi:


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

I have another option though you may not like it. Whenever life hands you lemons, you steel from Tom Barr. Here is what he did when the wife said no to pressurized. He made a hyper-efficient DIY set up. I know I know...for 150 gallons it would be challenging...but I said you may not like it...check it out though: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/110416-effects-ei-my-46-gallon.html


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Sorry to double-post, but I see 5 gallon buckets filled with water and sugar and yeast...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Dan the Man said:


> I have another option though you may not like it. Whenever life hands you lemons, you steel from Tom Barr. Here is what he did when the wife said no to pressurized. He made a hyper-efficient DIY set up. I know I know...for 150 gallons it would be challenging...but I said you may not like it...check it out though: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/110416-effects-ei-my-46-gallon.html


Yeah i was looking through that thread a while back and it looked interesting. It may be worth trying, even though i bet it would be an extreme PITA to do. :hihi:

Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Well... i left the memory stick reader for my camera in New Jersey. =/ So i can't upload any pictures right now... BUT i got some marsilia minuta (thanks Rey!) and i planted about 1/3 of the carpet with it. I also put my two large java ferns inside since they didn't seem to be doing too well outside in a 5 gallon bucket full of 95F+ water. LOL. Hopefully i'll see some better growth emersed....

I'll upload pictures asap.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

So i woke up today and saw that my java ferns were COVERED in this white/grey fluffy stuff. I don't know how to describe it, except for it looks like fuzzy spider web/cotton stuff. It is only on the stems, but not the leaves. 

Sorry, i can't upload any pictures still- but does anyone know what this exactly is? Should i put the ferns back in water? I took them out of the hot water yesterday and put them in the humid tank, thinking that they would grow better. :hihi: Is it not humid enough inside the tank? Is it too humid? Is there a transition phase from submerged to emersed that i just totally skipped?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

It might be some harmless mold that tends to grow in high humidity emersed tanks.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I got a card reader, so here's some pictures:


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

I agree with CL, it looks alot like harmless mold. If the plants start to die, just dunk them in a bleach solution (or that perm- or was it pom- stuff?) to kill it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> I agree with CL, it looks alot like harmless mold. If the plants start to die, just dunk them in a bleach solution (or that perm- or was it pom- stuff?) to kill it.


Ok that's good to hear.  It won't affect the plant's growth or anything though?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Ok that's good to hear.  It won't affect the plant's growth or anything though?


Not that I know of... I had that stuff on the roots of one of my peace lily in my riparium once, and the plant was fine. It went away after a week or so.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

They should be fine soon enough. I'd say it was most likely brought on by sitting in the bucket of hot water with no movement.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

im trying to grow my plants emersed to jump start my tank. Are you still gonna stock it with discus?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> im trying to grow my plants emersed to jump start my tank. Are you still gonna stock it with discus?


I've started to reconsider the discus idea. My reasons-

Pros:
1. They're really cool!
2. Nice "WOW!" fish.
3. They're SUPER cool!
Cons:
1. They're really expensive. At about $150 each for 5" discus, it will cost me about $900 to get the 6 that i want. Sure, i could get smaller ones, but that's not really what i was planning on doing...
2. I'm going to be taking this tank down when i go to college, which will be in 3 years. If i were to have discus, wouldn't it be nice to be able to keep them for longer? ALTHOUGH i guess i could just remove everything (substrate, plants, rocks, driftwood, etc.) and keep it a BB tank when i go to college.

Other options:
1. Huge school of tetras (one or two species). Cardinals/congos/gold neons/???
2. Not really sure.

But then i started thinking... the MAIN reason i purchased this tank was because i wanted to have discus. So i'm just going to think it over and i'll somehow decide sooner or later. 

Right now i'm just focused on getting it set up exactly how i want it. 
I just got back from Aquatouch (LFS) and got some _marsilea quadrifolia_. Gonna go finish up planting the carpet; i'll post pictures in a bit.

Oh, and your tank is looking good VadimShevckuk! How's the DSM working out for you?

By the way, it already looks like the mold is thinning down. roud:


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## jman (Sep 7, 2009)

That could be a really nice rainbowfish tank.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

I have not followed very closely, so excuse me if these are questions you have answered already. 

-What is your planned water change schedule?
-Which discus were you planning on getting?
-Do you have other tank closer to 55 gal that you could use to grow out your discus for 6 months or so?

I am guessing that the discus you are looking at are Hans $150 adults, but that is just a guess. That is a great deal for such good discus at that size. But if your good enough about your water changes on the 150, or if you can grow them out in a smaller tank (which would be a better option) you could buy 3" discus and grow them to 5" in 3 to 6 months time. 

Discus do hold their valve pretty well if you do a good job with them. So you could sell them when you go to college. And by then you will almost certainly be dealing with at least a pair or two out of a good sized group.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

yikesjason said:


> I have not followed very closely, so excuse me if these are questions you have answered already.
> 
> -What is your planned water change schedule?
> -Which discus were you planning on getting?
> ...


Haven't really figured out the water change schedule yet, but i was hoping i could keep it at 50-60% once a week, or maybe twice a week at the very most. I was planning on getting some discus from Kenny Chung, who imports them from Malaysia. I guess they're really $100-$150 per, but that still adds up to quite a bit... 

I don't have another tank that i could set up to grow a few smaller discus out. I don't really think it's going to be an option, unfortunately. (but i would if i could!)



> That could be a really nice rainbowfish tank.


I'm not a huge fan of rainbowfish for whatever reason. Thanks for the suggestion though.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

The carpet is all planted! Sorry about the quality of the photo, i'm still trying to figure out how to take pictures of the aquarium with so much light... any suggestions? (i'd rather not put the canopy on every time i want to take a picture )


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> I've started to reconsider the discus idea. My reasons-
> 
> Pros:
> 1. They're really cool!
> ...


You should go with a school of agnels with a some type of fish that shoals. Angels arent very picky and they usually live through everything.

Thanks for your comment on my tank:biggrin:. UG is really taking of like crazy and my new light fixture is coming in but im leaving for TN tonight and wont be able to see it =/. Now lets not take up more precious space for your awsome tank talking about my humble tank!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Why not a S. American biotope? Angels, discus, tetras, and plecos are all from S. America!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> You should go with a school of agnels with a some type of fish that shoals. Angels arent very picky and they usually live through everything.
> 
> Thanks for your comment on my tank:biggrin:. UG is really taking of like crazy and my new light fixture is coming in but im leaving for TN tonight and wont be able to see it =/. Now lets not take up more precious space for your awsome tank talking about my humble tank!


Yeah it looks like UG grows emersed REALLY well. I was even thinking about doing that instead of marsilia, but that's too much trouble. :biggrin: It took me for ever to plant it!

At least you'll come home to a new light fixture.  Something to look forward too! I came home to 100 rootmedic tabs; i was quite happy. :icon_bigg



> Why not a S. American biotope? Angels, discus, tetras, and plecos are all from S. America!


True! I may actually do that... it would be pretty cool.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I got a mini humidifier for the tank today... i don't know if it was a stupid idea or not, but i thought it would be better than spraying several times a day! I'm going to go pick up one of those little things that measures the humidity inside the tank for amphibians, just to see if it's making a worthwhile difference. 

Also... i just realized that i haven't replaced the bulbs in my light fixture since i purchased it back in 2008. Are there any places where i can order 48" bulbs for relatively cheap (fishneedit?)? I need 8. And yes, i'm FINALLY going to replace the actinics. :hihi:

Almost all of the mold is gone, by the way.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

At first I thought the tank was filled

Do you want me to send you some UG? I have a bunch of it growing in my tank.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> At first I thought the tank was filled
> 
> Do you want me to send you some UG? I have a bunch of it growing in my tank.


Haha nah it's alright, thanks though. Maybe i'll try UG out if the marsilia carpet fails. :icon_lol: I haven't read anything about marsilia species grown emersed, so i'm not quite sure how it will do.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

there's a brief paragraph about emersed marslilia here:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...tails.php?id=313&category=genus&spec=Marsilea

i think you might actually be better off to fill the tank a little bit to have it grow submersed. all of the four leafed stuff that will grow emersed will probably die off and it'll start sending out the one leafed stuff after you fill it. 

it's actually spreading rather quickly for me submersed. just a thought...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> there's a brief paragraph about emersed marslilia here:
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...tails.php?id=313&category=genus&spec=Marsilea
> 
> ...


How high do you think i should fill it? Just high enough so it covers the marsilia?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> How high do you think i should fill it? Just high enough so it covers the marsilia?


honestly, that's something that i've never tried. it was just an idea. hopefully, someone else might have some experience with this and will share. 

if i was going to try it that way, i would probably just fill the tank up enough so that you had an inch or two of water over the marsilia.

another thing that i just considered: 

you could just keep growing it emersed. that's going to produce the four leafed clover yes, but it would also produce more marsilia than growing it submersed. you'd just do a massive trim when you fill the tank. then you'd just have to wait for the submersed growth to fill in.

are you still waffling over the discus? have you considered altums?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> honestly, that's something that i've never tried. it was just an idea. hopefully, someone else might have some experience with this and will share.
> 
> if i was going to try it that way, i would probably just fill the tank up enough so that you had an inch or two of water over the marsilia.
> 
> ...


So if i'm understanding this correctly, growing marsilea emersed will produce the 4 leafed clovers. When i add water to the tank, those leaves will die off and then they will be replaced by the singles. Or does the whole plant die?

If it's just the leaves, then i think i'm going to grow them emersed. I don't mind waiting for new leaves to grow in. 

Or are you saying that i could trim all of the leaves off after it's all grown in/before i fill the tank with water?

I have considered altums. Still a possibility.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> does the whole plant die?


nope :biggrin:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> nope :biggrin:


roud: It shall stay emersed then.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You're going to have to change your thread title and everything if you don't get discus. LOL. I am so totally excited about this tank. Great idea on the misting machine, I am having a birthday in September and wouldn't mind having you sending it to me.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> You're going to have to change your thread title and everything if you don't get discus. LOL. I am so totally excited about this tank. Great idea on the misting machine, I am having a birthday in September and wouldn't mind having you sending it to me.


I know... i'll have to ask msnikkistar to make me a new banner if i decide to not get discus, LOL. 

The humidifier seems to be working pretty well. I'm keeping the humidity at 80%, which keeps the plants plenty moist. I even see some new growth... little tiny plants are starting to poke up (with four leaved clovers, of course). 

Glad to see you back on the forums! We need you around here more.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm sure Nikki won't mind. I have a feeling she enjoys her contributions.  Yours is my favorite so far. Stupid question, does the humidifier tell you what percentage the humidity is? Where do you get these things? Try to get some up close pictures of the four leaf clovers for your WV pal. 

Thanks, I love working again, but I do miss you guys. It seems like there is a lot of new people lately that it's hard to keep up with everything!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> I'm sure Nikki won't mind. I have a feeling she enjoys her contributions.  Yours is my favorite so far. Stupid question, does the humidifier tell you what percentage the humidity is? Where do you get these things? Try to get some up close pictures of the four leaf clovers for your WV pal.
> 
> Thanks, I love working again, but I do miss you guys. It seems like there is a lot of new people lately that it's hard to keep up with everything!


Thanks, i love my banner too! She does a fantastic job with them. 

I got the humidifier for $24.99 at Walgreens. It's one of those transportable ones. You use a regular water bottle as a holding tank, which is nice. I check the humidity levels via a hygrometer (I think they're mostly used in amphibian setups). Got it today for a few bucks at Petsmart.

I'll go take some pictures of the little four leaf clovers. I wish they'd stay mushed together into one compact leaf though, LOL.

Oh yeah, you got a new job a while back didn't you? roud: How's that working out?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I learn something new everyday. I'm going to visit my local Walgreens tomorrow. Looking forward to the pictures. I know what you mean about wishing they would stay compact, though. It'll be worth it in the end! Job is going well, but I am a little tired. The schedule is all over the place due to training. Don't ever grow up. ROFL


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Pictures! I thought they turned out OK, for a change.


This 4-leaf clover is an older one i think. It was one of the few that were left in the batch of _marsilea quadrifolia_ that i bought yesterday. It wasn't in the best condition, but i was anxious to finish the carpet.









Here's one popping up i think. It only looks like it has three leaves right now though.  (it's the little bright green thing in the middle)









So far, so good...




















> learn something new everyday. I'm going to visit my local Walgreens tomorrow. Looking forward to the pictures. I know what you mean about wishing they would stay compact, though. It'll be worth it in the end! Job is going well, but I am a little tired. The schedule is all over the place due to training. Don't ever grow up. ROFL


Glad to hear the job is working out well. And i'll make sure to not grow up anymore, LOL.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Sweet pictures! I do believe your photo taking skills have improved vastly from your early days. Meanwhile, mine aren't..... Forgive me for being totally lazy on not looking this up, but are you giving them any fertilizers right now?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Sweet pictures! I do believe your photo taking skills have improved vastly from your early days. Meanwhile, mine aren't..... Forgive me for being totally lazy on not looking this up, but are you giving them any fertilizers right now?


Thank you! I'm definitely learning how to take better pictures. I'm also going to be taking a photography class next year, so that should help a ton.  I do have a really nice camera, so why not learn how to use it? LOL.

The only thing i'm using right now is Rootmedic Comprehensive and Rootmedic Iron Intense. After 3 or 4 days of use, they seem to be doing wonders already. o_o


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Glad to hear the rootmedic ferts are working for you. I am curious to see how they work long term. I've been thinking about buying them after I run out of my diy tablets, but that could be years. By the way, I have turface in several of my tanks and love it. Have you used it before? The only thing I have noticed is it really went through a diatom outbreak like I've never experienced before. Oh, and I actually made my lazy finger hit the back button to catch up on your thread and saw the picture of you in your fish tank. At first, I thought you were in a tanning bed. :biggrin:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Glad to hear the rootmedic ferts are working for you. I am curious to see how they work long term. I've been thinking about buying them after I run out of my diy tablets, but that could be years. By the way, I have turface in several of my tanks and love it. Have you used it before? The only thing I have noticed is it really went through a diatom outbreak like I've never experienced before. Oh, and I actually made my lazy finger hit the back button to catch up on your thread and saw the picture of you in your fish tank. At first, I thought you were in a tanning bed. :biggrin:


I haven't used Turface before, but a few people in AAPE have used it with great success. If i have a diatom outbreak, i'll just get a massive squad of ottos to clean it all up.  Can never have too many of those little guys!

LOL i love that picture of me in the tank. I was going to sleep in it, but decided not to.  I regret making that decision.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Turface is by far better than flourite in my opinion. The color is a little different, but after the plants start to grow, it's actually very complimentary. So would you have technically been 'sleeping with the fishes?' LOL. I crack myself up!


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Turface is by far better than flourite in my opinion. The color is a little different, but after the plants start to grow, it's actually very complimentary. So would you have technically been 'sleeping with the fishes?' LOL. I crack myself up!


Yeah that's what i've heard. Flourite was ok, but i'm hoping that turface will work better for me. 

LOL sleeping with the fishes. :hihi:


----------



## AquaCamp (May 31, 2010)

AzFishKid said:


> I got a mini humidifier for the tank today... i don't know if it was a stupid idea or not, but i thought it would be better than spraying several times a day! I'm going to go pick up one of those little things that measures the humidity inside the tank for amphibians, just to see if it's making a worthwhile difference.


Where did you get that mini humidifier and what product is it?

Also - did you measure the humidity? Is it doing what you wanted?


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

AquaCamp said:


> Where did you get that mini humidifier and what product is it?
> 
> Also - did you measure the humidity? Is it doing what you wanted?


The humidifier is a Walgreens brand.
Box says: Compact•Personal Humidifer / UltraSonic Technology (whatever that means, LOL)
The actual unit says: Travel Aire
$24.99

I purchased a hygrometer to measure the humidity ($6.99 at Petsmart), and it's doing exactly what i wanted. It's keeping the humidity at about 80%, and i can already see some new growth after a few days. I'm keeping the light on for 12+ hours a day. No new growth on the java ferns yet, but they're already looking a lot healthier.


----------



## AquaCamp (May 31, 2010)

AzFishKid said:


> The humidifier is a Walgreens brand.
> Box says: Compact•Personal Humidifer / UltraSonic Technology (whatever that means, LOL)
> The actual unit says: Travel Aire
> $24.99
> ...


Very nice - thanks for the reply.


----------



## topfrog007 (Dec 30, 2007)

The humidifier is an awesome idea. I'm definitely going to get one for my current DSM.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

topfrog007 said:


> The humidifier is an awesome idea. I'm definitely going to get one for my current DSM.


It's working really well. Probably not necessary for smaller tanks, but worth it for larger ones.


----------



## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> It's working really well. Probably not necessary for smaller tanks, but worth it for larger ones.


Yeah there are some good plans for setting one up as a fogger on alot of the Dendroboards. Thought about putting one on my tank for a mornign fog effect when the lights come on. :icon_mrgr

Craig


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*July 5, 2010*
Day #5 of DSM

(By the way- the large rock on the far left is going to be removed and replaced with a different rock. It looks a little out of place. And i may put some rocks on the front left and front right sides, to prevent the substrate from being against the glass)










Java fern #1 is doing better...









But java fern #2 is not doing so good...


----------



## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

hey man, just read the whole post. that sucks about the not having co2 but at least you got a giant tank  
i'm sure once the plants fill in it'll look really nice


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

monkeyruler90 said:


> hey man, just read the whole post. that sucks about the not having co2 but at least you got a giant tank
> i'm sure once the plants fill in it'll look really nice


Yeah it does suck (a lot), but maybe one of these days i'll be able to get co2.

Thanks! I was a little hesitant to do a mm/mq carpet (i was thinking maybe a grassy plant, like e. tenellus or DHG would look better), but i think this will look awesome once it fills in.


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

oldpunk78 said:


> there's a brief paragraph about emersed marslilia here:
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...tails.php?id=313&category=genus&spec=Marsilea
> 
> ...


Every pot of Marslilia I have purchased was grown emersed, and well if you do not trim it when you submerse it, it takes about a week to go black lol. The quadrifolia in my tank gets up to around 3" or so at its tallest, so maybe that high filled?


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> So if i'm understanding this correctly, growing marsilea emersed will produce the 4 leafed clovers. When i add water to the tank, those leaves will die off and then they will be replaced by the singles. Or does the whole plant die?
> 
> If it's just the leaves, then i think i'm going to grow them emersed. I don't mind waiting for new leaves to grow in.
> 
> ...


The emersed form has thin four leaf clovers, the submersed form is single to three leaf clovers that are pretty thick, and a deeper green. When you fill, you should trim to 1/4-1/2" off the substrate (leave the runners lol) For a couple weeks it will still attempt to grow emersed clovers. They will yellow and die. Then the submersed form will start popping up quickly.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Noahma said:


> Every pot of Marslilia I have purchased was grown emersed, and well if you do not trim it when you submerse it, it takes about a week to go black lol. The quadrifolia in my tank gets up to around 3" or so at its tallest, so maybe that high filled?


I think i'm going to continue to let them grow emersed, and just trim the leaves off before i fill the tank with water. If it doesn't do well for whatever reason though, i'll submerge them.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Noahma said:


> The emersed form has thin four leaf clovers, the submersed form is single to three leaf clovers that are pretty thick, and a deeper green. When you fill, you should trim to 1/4-1/2" off the substrate (leave the runners lol) For a couple weeks it will still attempt to grow emersed clovers. They will yellow and die. Then the submersed form will start popping up quickly.


Thanks for the information/advice. It sounds like you've tried this before? :icon_mrgr


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> I think i'm going to continue to let them grow emersed, and just trim the leaves off before i fill the tank with water. If it doesn't do well for whatever reason though, i'll submerge them.


The pictures on the last page looks like the submersed form lol. you might not have to worry about it, the stems will be very long with very thin 4 leaf clovers on them if they grow emersed. Looks great so far


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Noahma said:


> The pictures on the last page looks like the submersed form lol. you might not have to worry about it, the stems will be very long with very thin 4 leaf clovers on them if they grow emersed. Looks great so far


Yeah, i purchased the marsilea minuta as well as the marsilea quadrifolia in their submerged form. It did look like the quadrifolia was originally grown emersed though, since there were a couple 4 leaved clovers that were still present.


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Thanks for the information/advice. It sounds like you've tried this before? :icon_mrgr


When setting up my tiny 5.5 gal. I have two forms of the clover, the minuetta in my 36 gal. and the quadrifolia in my 5.5. The quad. seems to grow quicker for me.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Noahma said:


> When setting up my tiny 5.5 gal. I have two forms of the clover, the minuetta in my 36 gal. and the quadrifolia in my 5.5. The quad. seems to grow quicker for me.



Yeah that's what i heard. Supposedly the quadrifolia does better submerged than the minuta does submerged. But we'll see what happens.

3/4 of the carpet is quadrifolia. :thumbsup:


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Yeah that's what i heard. Supposedly the quadrifolia does better submerged than the minuta does submerged. But we'll see what happens.
> 
> 3/4 of the carpet is quadrifolia. :thumbsup:


This is two months of growth in my 5.5 with med. light DIY CO2 and minimal ferts. It has started to invade the area I set aside for my C.parva lol, as you can see some have a single leaf, some three and a couple with 4. please ignore the snails, they um.... are a slight problem lol. This is the Quadrifolia


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Noahma said:


> This is two months of growth in my 5.5 with med. light DIY CO2 and minimal ferts. It has started to invade the area I set aside for my C.parva lol, as you can see some have a single leaf, some three and a couple with 4. please ignore the snails, they um.... are a slight problem lol. This is the Quadrifolia.


oo nice! Did you start that out emersed or submerged?


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> oo nice! Did you start that out emersed or submerged?


Submerged, but it was originally grown as emersed in the pot at the LFS I got it from. It grew back pretty quick after doing the initial trimming. For a couple weeks after submersing it, it kept trying to give me emersed form, then it changed after doing a trimming under the water. (stubborn stuff if you ask me lol)


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Noahma said:


> Submerged, but it was originally grown as emersed in the pot at the LFS I got it from. It grew back pretty quick after doing the initial trimming. For a couple weeks after submersing it, it kept trying to give me emersed form, then it changed after doing a trimming under the water. (stubborn stuff if you ask me lol)


So was that picture before or after the trimming? Only asking since i thought the 3/4 leaved clovers only grew emersed. (after the initial trimming/attempts at growing emersed in submerged conditions)

Stubborn marsilea, LOL. It as an attitude of it's own.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> So was that picture before or after the trimming? Only asking since i thought the 3/4 leaved clovers only grew emersed. (after the initial trimming/attempts at growing emersed in submerged conditions)
> 
> Stubborn marsilea, LOL. It as an attitude of it's own.


the picture was from about fifteen min. ago hehe a majority will grow single leaf, but a few will grow 3/4 leaves. They are arranged differently on the stem as well. emersed will grow one leaf every quarter of a circle, whereas the emersed crams all four leaves within a half circle, if that makes sense.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Noahma said:


> the picture was from about fifteen min. ago hehe a majority will grow single leaf, but a few will grow 3/4 leaves. They are arranged differently on the stem as well. emersed will grow one leaf every quarter of a circle, whereas the emersed crams all four leaves within a half circle, if that makes sense.


Ohhh i see. Yeah that makes sense. 

I like the single-leaf version better, so i'm hoping it will mostly grow like that.


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

I do see more of the single leave version than the multi-leaf version. Even in the minueta I get more single leaf than multi. The leaf on the minueta gets to be 1/8-1/4" and the quadrifolia 1/2-3/4"


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*July 8, 2010*
Day #8 of DSM


----------



## topfrog007 (Dec 30, 2007)

Have you noticed any new growth? Kind of hard to tell so far.

My DSM with DHG is on day 6 and I haven't seen any improvement.


----------



## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Been watching this thread for a bit, but haven't subscribed...until now.


Obviously, with no co2, this tank will be low light with low light plants. I think it'll be a great example for all those people who, for whatever reason, can't have co2. 

DSM on Marsilea will be great for this tank. When I saw that's what you were using for a forground, my first thought was "That'll NEVER fill in with that tall of a tank and low light" but the DSM will be a great way to go. 

Great job so far!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

topfrog007 said:


> Have you noticed any new growth? Kind of hard to tell so far.
> 
> My DSM with DHG is on day 6 and I haven't seen any improvement.


Yes, there are several 4-leaved clovers that are starting to pop up all over the place. They're hard to see in the photos, but there is noticeable growth! 



> Been watching this thread for a bit, but haven't subscribed...until now.
> 
> 
> Obviously, with no co2, this tank will be low light with low light plants. I think it'll be a great example for all those people who, for whatever reason, can't have co2.
> ...


Thanks for subscribing! For now, yes, it will be a low-tech tank with low-tech plants, but i still hope to get a co2 system some day. I hope the things i learn from setting up this aquarium help others who are going the low-tech route. 

The DSM is working really well for the marsilea. Definitely no regrets!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> The DSM is working really well for the marsilea. Definitely no regrets!


I'm guessing it'll take some time, but it'll be awesome. I got a big clump of minuta a while back, put it in my QT/RCS tank. I planted it a lot like you've got it. Not DSM. Did that about 3 months ago, and now it's about 98% full. I'm sure using DSM you'll be there in no time.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> I'm guessing it'll take some time, but it'll be awesome. I got a big clump of minuta a while back, put it in my QT/RCS tank. I planted it a lot like you've got it. Not DSM. Did that about 3 months ago, and now it's about 98% full. I'm sure using DSM you'll be there in no time.


Yup i'm hoping it will fill in pretty quickly! I'm really anxious to get the tank filled with water. roud:


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

If you don't mind shipping discus, someone is offering 6 wilds for $250.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> If you don't mind shipping discus, someone is offering 6 wilds for $250.


Great deal, but i don't have the funds right now nor a place to put them. 

Is it someone over at simplydiscus?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Great deal, but i don't have the funds right now nor a place to put them.
> 
> Is it someone over at simplydiscus?


I don't think so. He was selling from a personal tank.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

AHHH i'm so excited! I'm ordering two awesome driftwood pieces from D.S. Drifter.
I'm either going to tie a bunch of anubias petite on the wood, or some sort of moss (or maybe even leave them uncovered?). Any suggestions on moss type? I was thinking maybe peacock.. or flame.









27'' left to right, 14'' tall, 9'' front to back
slate mounted










19'' left to right, 12'' tall, 10'' front to back


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Nice DW! I really like the first piece.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Great peices! I would leave them uncovered, but if not I would go with peacock moss. Although those fancy schmancy ADA tanks with the 'pathways' and the 'driftwood trees' look cool, I am much more of a naturalist. (Not a Walsteder though!) 
Great work so far!
Regards,
Jake


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Your going to keep discus? I thought you changed your mind about that. I love DSM to since there is no algae, only negative thing about DSM is that you want to fill the tank in.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Thanks! I think i'll leave them uncovered for a while, then cover them with moss if i don't like how they look uncovered.

Here's my ideas for the driftwood placement. I know it's kind of hard to imagine.. but does anyone have any other ideas/suggestions? I was leaning more towards the second one.




















> Your going to keep discus? I thought you changed your mind about that. I love DSM to since there is no algae, only negative thing about DSM is that you want to fill the tank in.


I'm still undecided, LOL.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

I like those pieces of wood! They both remind me of a bridge

I think I like the second one too.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

I would try pointing the larger piece away from the arch instead of towards it. As for left or right oriented, I think it will depend on what the front/back of the pieces looks like.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank - [DSM]*



FSM said:


> I would try pointing the larger piece away from the arch instead of towards it. As for left or right oriented, I think it will depend on what the front/back of the pieces looks like.


I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to point it in any other direction unless I move the "arch" to a different place. The large piece is 27" long. 

Oh well, I'll figure it out when it gets here. Its hard to imagine possibilites without having the driftwood to mess around with.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

This may sound like a really stupid question... but i have 35 watt bulbs in my light fixture right now. Can i put in 54 watt bulbs instead? 

Also... i know people have different opinions on this topic, but should i replace the bulbs? They've been running for over two years... close to three i think.

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2623


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## tkfishgeek (Oct 8, 2007)

Should never have bulbs older than 1 year or 14 months. Helps with algea due to the age of the light bulb. You will want to change them. But not higher then what you have or what the lighting hood can tank or start. Do not want to get something to high in watts & get to hot & eather start a fire or sort out the wiring in the light. Just get a a T5 set up with a little more money & you will be happy.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

tkfishgeek said:


> Should never have bulbs older than 1 year or 14 months. Helps with algea due to the age of the light bulb. You will want to change them. But not higher then what you have or what the lighting hood can tank or start. Do not want to get something to high in watts & get to hot & eather start a fire or sort out the wiring in the light. Just get a a T5 set up with a little more money & you will be happy.


Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone know where i can get cheap (but good) 35 watt 48" t5 bulbs? I need 8...
And should i get all 6700k or what?


----------



## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

isn't that a fishneedit fixture? i thought they were HO. (meaning that they would be running 54w bulbs)

edit - wait, aren't those 36" bulbs? 54w = 4'. the three footers are like 37w.????


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I think 8 might be overkill. def. if theyre HO.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> isn't that a fishneedit fixture? i thought they were HO. (meaning that they would be running 54w bulbs)
> 
> edit - wait, aren't those 36" bulbs? 54w = 4'. the three footers are like 37w.????


Nope, it's not a fishneedit fixture. I bought it on ebay.
This is what it says on the light fixture:
"HEL-1800"
"VOLTAGE: 110v/60Hz"
"POWER: 8 x 35W (T5)
"ZHEJIANG SENSEN INDUSTRY CO, LTD."

And i just measured the bulbs- they're 56-57" actually (hard to get an accurate measure while it's hanging). D: I didn't even think they made bulbs that size? I was just assuming they were 48" since they were a little longer than half of the aquarium length... haha.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I was able to find some 57.5" bulbs thanks to a few recommendations, so i'm going to order some when i have a bit more cash.

Marsilea is doing well, but not worth posting any pictures since there's not significant growth.

Kinda a cool picture that i found of me looking at my 68g a few months back... I think it was taken on the day i got the pressurized co2, since i see the diffuser on the right side. :hihi:


----------



## jshoker (Jun 27, 2010)

cool pic dude!


----------



## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

awesome picture!


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

thats a cool angle shot.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

GOOD NEWS! My mom is going to let me get another pressurized co2 setup! IM SO EXCITED AAHHHHHH!!
Now i will finally be able to grow _Ammannia sp. 'Bonsai'_ and _Rotala mexicana_ with success! Thank you to everyone who provided safety information about co2 systems; it was helpful to my parents.

Bad news: I have to save up for it.  LOL.


----------



## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

haha better than having to save up for nothing.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

F22 said:


> haha better than having to save up for nothing.


Very true. 

What's the cheapest that i could get all of this for? Before i bought everything from the LFS, which i think was a little overpriced... (around $350 for everything below):

-5lb./10lb. tank
-Co2 resistant tubing
-Drop checker
-Regulator
-Diffuser
-Milwaukee ph monitor
-Am i missing anything?


----------



## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

congrats btw!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Muhahahahahaha!!! Kid kind wins again!!! Now hurry and save up so I can see another great tank!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> Muhahahahahaha!!! Kid kind wins again!!! Now hurry and save up so I can see another great tank!



Anyone want me to mow their lawn? Or babysit their children? LOL.
I'm gonna try and sell a few things, and maybe i'll have enough to get a tank and stuff within a week or two.
I need to get it fast before my parents change their minds again, lmao!


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Anyone want me to mow their lawn? Or babysit their children? LOL.
> I'm gonna try and sell a few things, and maybe i'll have enough to get a tank and stuff within a week or two.


Reff soccer! I get paid $10 for a game, though the start up costs are a little up...


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

That's awesome news man!! 

You might want to skip the co2 controller, I just bought one, and it's semi-useless. Also go with the 10lb tank if you can..


----------



## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

xmas_one said:


> That's awesome news man!!
> 
> You might want to skip the co2 controller, I just bought one, and it's semi-useless. Also go with the 10lb tank if you can..


pH controllers are very useful. Not required, but very useful. It's kind of a splurge, so I'd say get the other equipment first and get co2 up and running, and then maybe add a controller later if you have the cash.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> pH controllers are very useful. Not required, but very useful. It's kind of a splurge, so I'd say get the other equipment first and get co2 up and running, and then maybe add a controller later if you have the cash.


Yeah probably a good idea to skip the pH controller for now. I will definitely want to get one in the future though.


----------



## houstonhobby (Dec 12, 2008)

I don't think you need special CO2 resistant tubing. I think that is way over stated. I use regular vynil tubing, most of which has been in my garage since 1980 (when I bought a whole roll, still have about half of it).

I remember seeing a post once about somebody deciding to use 25 ft of non-resistant tubing as a diffusor. Since the CO2 is supposed to leak out very subtly it should make a fine one. No bubbles big enough to reach the surface.

Guess what? No diffusion occurred. Complete waste of time.

Thanks,
Rod


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

houstonhobby said:


> I don't think you need special CO2 resistant tubing. I think that is way over stated. I use regular vynil tubing, most of which has been in my garage since 1980 (when I bought a whole roll, still have about half of it).
> 
> I remember seeing a post once about somebody deciding to use 25 ft of non-resistant tubing as a diffusor. Since the CO2 is supposed to leak out very subtly it should make a fine one. No bubbles big enough to reach the surface.
> 
> ...


Alright, well i already have quite a bit of regular tubing. So that should be fine.


----------



## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> GOOD NEWS! My mom is going to let me get another pressurized co2 setup! IM SO EXCITED AAHHHHHH!!


that's great news. it's cool that they changed their minds. hurry up and save!


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> that's great news. it's cool that they changed their minds. hurry up and save!


Yeah i'm happy!


----------



## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Idk if youd be interested or if it even is still available, but reybie from Aape offered me a co2 set up for only 75 bucks a little while back. PM him if youre interested, he might still have it.

Congrats btw, and Good luck in your Co2 set up search!:thumbsup:


----------



## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

Sounds like you need a job


----------



## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

http://www.socalaquascapers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6312

GLA reg for a 100 bucks....


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> Idk if youd be interested or if it even is still available, but reybie from Aape offered me a co2 set up for only 75 bucks a little while back. PM him if youre interested, he might still have it.
> 
> Congrats btw, and Good luck in your Co2 set up search!:thumbsup:


That would be amazing if he still had it. $75 is a steal!
I sent him a PM. Thanks for the info!



FSM said:


> Sounds like you need a job


No kidding... but who want's to hire a 15 year old? Not many. I heard a thing a while back that teenagers have the hardest time finding jobs in these times, since the jobs such as bagging groceries at the store are being taken by unemployed adults. To be honest though, i know there's people out there who need a job like that much more than i do.



xmas_one said:


> http://www.socalaquascapers.com/foru...ead.php?t=6312
> 
> GLA reg for a 100 bucks....


Wish i had the cash right now.. i am literally broke right now. And on top of that, someone in Europe charged $38 at some chocolate shop on my debit card... LOL.


----------



## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Gratz on the Co2. Took me a while to get Co2 but my birthday came up so my parents got me a regulator as part of a present. I dont want to jinx you, but your parents are gonna wake up tomorrow and say that they changed their minds. Im just messing =P. It must feel like christmas for you?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> Gratz on the Co2. Took me a while to get Co2 but my birthday came up so my parents got me a regulator as part of a present. I dont want to jinx you, but your parents are gonna wake up tomorrow and say that they changed their minds. Im just messing =P. It must feel like christmas for you?


Haha i sure hope they don't change their minds.
It feels like more than christmas, lol! You have no idea how excited i am. :bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Is the Milwaukee C02 Regulator MA957 any good? There's a package deal for the regulator and a Milwaukee SMS122 pH Controller for $191 + $9 shipping.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Wish i had the cash right now.. i am literally broke right now. And on top of that, someone in Europe charged $38 at some chocolate shop on my debit card... LOL.


Talk about weird! :bounce: Hope you get some moola soon! I am rolling in it right now, 'cause I am getting paid $XXX to plant a pond!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> Talk about weird! :bounce: Hope you get some moola soon! I am rolling in it right now, 'cause I am getting paid $XXX to plant a pond!


Lucky... nothing better than getting paid for something you enjoy!

I think i'm going to go with Rex Grigg's regulator. Looks pretty spiffy.


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## penpal (Mar 27, 2010)

I use a Milwaukee regulator, it works great and its not hard to adjust as people say it is. Pretty sure its one of the cheapest as well, i got mine new for 86 dollars with free shipping.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

penpal said:


> I use a Milwaukee regulator, it works great and its not hard to adjust as people say it is. Pretty sure its one of the cheapest as well, i got mine new for 86 dollars with free shipping.



Hmm.. i mind as well start out with that then. $200 shipped for milwaukee regulator and Milwaukee pH reader, which sounds like a pretty good deal to me...


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Hmm.. i mind as well start out with that then. $200 shipped for milwaukee regulator and Milwaukee pH reader, which sounds like a pretty good deal to me...


You want a pH controller, not just a pH "reader" or meter. Milwaukee makes both. Don't get duped. $200 for a regulator and pH meter is not a good deal.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> You want a pH controller, not just a pH "reader" or meter. Milwaukee makes both. Don't get duped. $200 for a regulator and pH meter is not a good deal.



Sorry, i meant controller. 
"SMS122 pH Controller by Milwaukee Instruments"


*July 16, 2010* - Update #10

The driftwood is here!!
I like the general layout right now, but any suggestions? Should i push the right side of the driftwood "arch" down into the hill a little more? Should i move the driftwood (on the left) farther to the right on the hill?

I'm hopefully going to fill the tank up within a few days. I need to get some more filter pads since the ones i had were deteriorating.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> No kidding... but who want's to hire a 15 year old? Not many. I heard a thing a while back that teenagers have the hardest time finding jobs in these times, since the jobs such as bagging groceries at the store are being taken by unemployed adults. To be honest though, i know there's people out there who need a job like that much more than i do.


AquaTouch! It's an amazing store. I had to resist buying anything because it wouldn't fit in any of our luggage bags

Nice wood! I think it looks good the way it isroud:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> AquaTouch! It's an amazing store. I had to resist buying anything because it wouldn't fit in any of our luggage bags
> 
> Nice wood! I think it looks good the way it isroud:


Glad you got a chance to visit AquaTouch! It's definitely the best LFS in the area. How was your trip? Did you wear long pants the whole time or did you give in? :hihi:


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Glad you got a chance to visit AquaTouch! It's definitely the best LFS in the area. How was your trip? Did you wear long pants the whole time or did you give in? :hihi:


I wore jeans for the first 2 days...then I finally wore shorts

Arizona is amazing! Nice scenery and cactii (one was at least 35 feet tall ) and stuff. And the car's A/C was permanently glued on "MAX A/C":hihi:


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## Mr BrownThumb (Aug 1, 2009)

Subscribed. Don't you wish you could use the jedi mind trick on your emersed plants? You _*will*_ grow faster


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> I wore jeans for the first 2 days...then I finally wore shorts
> 
> Arizona is amazing! Nice scenery and cactii (one was at least 35 feet tall ) and stuff. And the car's A/C was permanently glued on "MAX A/C":hihi:


Glad you enjoyed it! A/C is definitely a necessity here.



> Subscribed. Don't you wish you could use the jedi mind trick on your emersed plants? You _*will*_ grow faster


Thank you for subscribing. 
Yeah, i wish they would grow faster! I did notice though that the areas that have more water (due to the uneven substrate level) are growing a LOT faster and a lot healthier, so i think it's time to fill the tank up. They seem to be rooted in pretty well.

But before i fill it, i'm going to sell my two Eheim Pro 3e 2076 canister filters. I'm afraid there won't be enough flow with the Eheim's since this tank is much larger than my other one. They were great filters on my 68 gallon, but i think a Fluval FX5 will be a lot better. So i'm going to sell the Eheims, get a FX5, and i should have enough money to get a full co2 system (including a milwaukee pH controller)! Then i'll be able to get some plants in!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

You're going to sell both Eheims and replace them with a single FX5?

I'm not sure a single FX5 will be enough. Maybe throw on an extra XP3 or XP4


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Sweeet driftwood!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> You're going to sell both Eheims and replace them with a single FX5?
> 
> I'm not sure a single FX5 will be enough. Maybe throw on an extra XP3 or XP4


For now, i'm going to have one FX5 and see how it works. If it's not enough, i'll add another filter. But i'm not going to have fish in the aquarium for a while, so i figured one would be fine for a few months.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> For now, i'm going to have one FX5 and see how it works. If it's not enough, i'll add another filter. But i'm not going to have fish in the aquarium for a while, so i figured one would be fine for a few months.


Yeah, ok, with no fish one will be fine and worth the sacrifice to go ahead and get CO2. Once you add the discus, you'll probably be doing a lot of water changes anyway, so the one FX5 might still be fine.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

What kind of driftwood is it? I'm suprused you went with milwauke, haven't heard the best things about their regulators. I think you should be okay with a FX5, you will need to add a powerhead for circulation purposes only.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> Yeah, ok, with no fish one will be fine and worth the sacrifice to go ahead and get CO2. Once you add the discus, you'll probably be doing a lot of water changes anyway, so the one FX5 might still be fine.


I'll probably get a second FX5 when i add discus (or at least a second filter). Doesn't hurt to have super overkill filtration. :flick:


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> What kind of driftwood is it? I'm suprused you went with milwauke, haven't heard the best things about their regulators. I think you should be okay with a FX5, you will need to add a powerhead for circulation purposes only.


Nothing is wrong with a milwaukee regulator. It's as good as any single stage regulator. The arguments against milwaukee regulators is that it is single stage instead of two stage, and that the needle valve is not as accurate and easy to set as some other high end needle valves. However, these aren't design issues. Milwaukee went this route to keep their regs more economical. If you are purchasing a pH controller in addition to the Milwaukee regulator, then the lack of the second stage and lack of a better needle valve becomes a moot point. A pH controller eliminates any negative effects directly related to a single stage regulator and a low end needle valve.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> What kind of driftwood is it? I'm suprused you went with milwauke, haven't heard the best things about their regulators. I think you should be okay with a FX5, you will need to add a powerhead for circulation purposes only.


I haven't purchased anything for the co2 system yet. Someone on another forum is selling a GLA choice regulator for $100, so i'm hoping to sell these filters ASAP so i can snag that. If not, i'm going to go with the milwaukee regulator. What type of regulator do you have?

The driftwood is from D.S. Drifter. I believe he collects it from a local lake. He calls it "bonsai rootwood".


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Also- would drilling two holes (about 1.5" diameter) on each side of the stand for filter tubes affect the structural stability of the stand?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Also- would drilling two holes (about 1.5" diameter) on each side of the stand for filter tubes affect the structural stability of the stand?


No. Are you thinking about running the tubes up the sides instead of the back?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> No. Are you thinking about running the tubes up the sides instead of the back?


Yeah, since i'd like to have flow on each side of the tank (when i have two filters).

With just one, i'm going to keep the tubes on the back.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Yeah, since i'd like to have flow on each side of the tank (when i have two filters).
> 
> With just one, i'm going to keep the tubes on the back.



You might think about drilling the holes in the back of the stand, and then running the lines to the side of the tank. It would probably look better. That's what I did on my 60-P. If need be you can use some PVC fittings and hose adapters to accomplish this.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> You might think about drilling the holes in the back of the stand, and then running the lines to the side of the tank. It would probably look better. That's what I did on my 60-P. If need be you can use some PVC fittings and hose adapters to accomplish this.


Hmm.. well there's already slits in the back of the stand for the tubes to go through, so i guess that would work. I could actually have the output tubes on each back corner. With the fluval fx5 nozzle, that would probably be better anyway.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> I haven't purchased anything for the co2 system yet. Someone on another forum is selling a GLA choice regulator for $100, so i'm hoping to sell these filters ASAP so i can snag that. If not, i'm going to go with the milwaukee regulator. What type of regulator do you have?
> 
> The driftwood is from D.S. Drifter. I believe he collects it from a local lake. He calls it "bonsai rootwood".


I have one of these.- http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-regulators/gla-co2-regulator.html

I bought it in SnS for 125 shipped. With it I got, 2 bubble counters, manifold, regulator, brass check valve, co2 reactor, and 5 ft of co2 tubing. 

Your are so lucky to be able to have a tank that big. My parents are giving me  looks on my hight tech tank. Are you happy with the turface? Im thinking about trying the charcoal version on a future tank.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> I have one of these.- http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-regulators/gla-co2-regulator.html
> 
> I bought it in SnS for 125 shipped. With it I got, 2 bubble counters, manifold, regulator, brass check valve, co2 reactor, and 5 ft of co2 tubing.
> 
> Your are so lucky to be able to have a tank that big. My parents are giving me  looks on my hight tech tank. Are you happy with the turface? Im thinking about trying the charcoal version on a future tank.


So far i'm happy with it. There's no way i was going to drop $200-$250 on ADA aquasoil. For the price, i think it's doing fine. But it's hard to tell when you only have one plant species growing in it.



Ok, so some people are telling me that i shouldn't get rid of the Eheims to get a Fluval FX5. Anyone want to convince me why i shouldn't? I'm still leaning towards the FX5...


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

You could just get a rena xp4, but cleaning three filters will be such a pain. If you need more reviews...... http://cichlid-forum.com/reviews/view_product_review.php?id=1205

fx5 is only 100 gph more then both of your filters combined. So i guess i would just keep the eheims


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> You could just get a rena xp4, but cleaning three filters will be such a pain. If you need more reviews...... http://cichlid-forum.com/reviews/view_product_review.php?id=1205
> 
> fx5 is only 100 gph more then both of your filters combined. So i guess i would just keep the eheims


See look... all of the reviews there are great.
The question is, why are the filters that i have now better than the FX5? The eheim pro 3e 2076's are great, but i think i need something bigger on the 150.

I need something with more flow, and i don't feel like putting a bunch of powerheads everywhere.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Your current filters are very nice. No need to sell them when you're going to need filters anyway. No sense in losing money by selling them.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Your current filters are very nice. No need to sell them when you're going to need filters anyway. No sense in losing money by selling them.


Ok, well there's no way i'm running 3 filters. So what do you think i should do? I really don't think these 2 eheims are going to be enough.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

FX5 is around 600 gph and both of your filters combined is around 450 gph. Just get a powerhead with 400 gph and you should be golden. CL has a good point, why lose money?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> FX5 is around 600 gph and both of your filters combined is around 450 gph. Just get a powerhead with 400 gph and you should be golden. CL has a good point, why lose money?


Eh, you're both right.

I guess i'll keep em. Should have thought about it more. D:

How is tubing diameter measured? I need to order new tubing since the ones i have aren't long enough. Is it from inside left to inside right, or outside left to outside right? (if that makes any sense...)


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Eh, you're both right.
> 
> I guess i'll keep em. Should have thought about it more. D:
> 
> How is tubing diameter measured? I need to order new tubing since the ones i have aren't long enough. Is it from inside left to inside right, or outside left to outside right? (if that makes any sense...)


i.d.= internal diameter
Most tubing measurements are i.d.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Where can i get more tubing? Does homedepot carry any, or should I order some from thatpetplace.com?

Just wondering if i can get it for cheaper anywhere else... 24 feet of black tubing from thatpetplace.com for $48...

EDIT: Found some locally.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*Ok.. i'm getting some tubes tomorrow.. so tomorrow evening, the tank shall be filled! Pictures will be posted.*


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Az...Worst case scenario...Keep the Eheims for now and just try them out, and add powerheads if necessary, or maybe even consider a needlewheel pump to help with flow plus a way to inject Co2.
You could add flow with the needlewheel without adding anything more inside the tank if planned right.

If later you still feel it's not enough or that you really do want that FX5 you just have a few more items to sell off with the Eheims. 
It's at least worth trying filters (and high end ones at that) you already have before losing cash on them.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jinx© said:


> Az...Worst case scenario...Keep the Eheims for now and just try them out, and add powerheads if necessary, or maybe even consider a needlewheel pump to help with flow plus a way to inject Co2.
> You could add flow with the needlewheel without adding anything more inside the tank if planned right.
> 
> If later you still feel it's not enough or that you really do want that FX5 you just have a few more items to sell off with the Eheims.
> It's at least worth trying filters (and high end ones at that) you already have before losing cash on them.


I decided to keep them. Someone told me that you're supposed to take out the white filter pads on top once the tank is cycled (which i didn't know..) so i'm hoping that will help a lot with the flow issue. They supposedly clog up the filter really easily...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

The tank is filled! The driftwood still needs to sink, so that'll probably take a few days.

Camera battery is dead, so i'll snap a few pictures in the morning.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Hah sweeet, im filling mine up as we speak. Should take about 20 hours or so haha.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

So i'm sitting on my bed looking at the aquarium, and guess what i see on the aquarium glass... 2 MTS.

REALLY?! I just filled it a few hours ago!!
Hahahaha. At least i have an army of 30+ assassin snails. :hihi:


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> So i'm sitting on my bed looking at the aquarium, and guess what i see on the aquarium glass... 2 MTS.
> 
> REALLY?! I just filled it a few hours ago!!
> Hahahaha. At least i have an army of 30+ assassin snails. :hihi:


Where are the pictures!?!:icon_surp


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Did you get the co2 running?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> Where are the pictures!?!:icon_surp


Pictures coming soon.



> Did you get the co2 running?


Still can't afford it... i'm up to $75.00
Anyone want to buy a used iPod Touch? :hihi:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I just realized that even with all of the bulbs on, i'm only going to have 1.87WPG. This isn't nearly enough with co2, is it?

I was thinking about getting this fixture sometime in the future (obviously i can't afford it right now, but would it be worth upgrading my lighting?). That will give me 4.26WPG. 

Or, i could get this fixture that will give me 3.2WPG.

Sollie7 is selling a used milwaukee regulator for like $65 shipped or something. I'm tempted to get it; i have enough money. Should I jump on it, or should i wait and get a higher quality regulator, like a Rex Grigg or GLA choice? I want to get a regulator that will work well, and one that i shouldn't have any problems with. And i've heard about a lot of people having problems with the milwaukee regulator...


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> I just realized that even with all of the bulbs on, i'm only going to have 1.87WPG. This isn't nearly enough with co2, is it?


Its a T5HO fixture right? If so, you should be fine! The reason the WPG rule is outdated is because of T5 & T5HO fixtures. You really only need 1.5-2WPG with a T5HO fixture. 

(All of this is my opinion FYI...)


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> Its a T5HO fixture right? If so, you should be fine! The reason the WPG rule is outdated is because of T5 & T5HO fixtures. You really only need 1.5-2WPG with a T5HO fixture.
> 
> (All of this is my opinion FYI...)


I thought it was a T5-HO, but i believe it's just T5. I'll PM you the link (it's ebay).


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

The "bridge" driftwood still has to sink. The other piece is only staying down because it's mounted to some slate.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Yup i agree, its 280 w total right?

I think thats more than enough light and will definitely need co2 regardless.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Awesome!!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

You have plenty of light. No need to get the 8 or 12 bulb fixture that you linked. Talk about overkill haha. WPG is way outdated. Especially for large tanks. I'd skip the controller for now. IMO it's a much better idea to get a quality reg and needle valve. No need to mess around with calibrating the probe etc.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> You have plenty of light. No need to get the 8 or 12 bulb fixture that you linked. Talk about overkill haha. WPG is way outdated. Especially for large tanks. I'd skip the controller for now. IMO it's a much better idea to get a quality reg and needle valve. No need to mess around with calibrating the probe etc.


Ok, well that's good news. All i need to do then is replace the bulbs i have (especially the 4 actinics). Regardless of whether they're still good or not, I think i'm just going to get new bulbs. They're all 3+ years old... doesn't hurt, right?

Also planning on getting lily pipes to replace the ugly green eheim plastic ones someday... haha i want to get so many things, but i have so little money! Hopefully i'll have everything i want by the end of 2011.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

+1 on what CL said. Get a good regulator that will last you and work good. Are you gonna difuse with a reactor or glass one?


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## Emerica88 (Oct 16, 2009)

Looks good did any of the turface float when you added water?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

You either need:

A)a quality regulator (dual stage) and a good needle valve

or

B) a cheap regulator w/cheap needle valve and a pH controller

They accomplish the same thing. 

If you are even thinking about getting a pH controller, save money, get a cheap reg and needle valve and go ahead and get the pH controller. No need to waste money on an expensive reg IF you are going to get a pH controller. 

The only reason to have an expensive reg/metering valve is IF you will NEVER have a pH controller. 

If the $65 includes shipping and all the equipment the Milwaukee is supposed to come with, ie Reg/solenoid/metering valve/bubble counter, then it's a good deal....but I've gotten it for $50 used before. 

Personally, I'll never go without a pH controller. I did for many years, thinking they were a waste of money...then I got my first one. I'm sold. 

I know there's a big component of this hobby that's all about "keeping up with the jones' ", but don't. Do what's best for you. 

As far is light is concerned:

As you should know, the wpg rule, even in it's original understanding, breaks down for larger tanks...therefore, even following the wpg rule, you can't follow the wpg rule. 

Read this article on Aquatic Eden:

http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2006/11/amanos-ideal-light-levels-revealed.html

and then follow the link to this analysis:

"Lighting as a function of tank size in the aquaria of Takashi Amano"
http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html

I'm not saying that's the end all be all, but according to that, you only need 227 watts of light for your 150g tank.


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## choptop (Jun 27, 2010)

Dr. Foster and Smith has a deluxe fully-automatic CO2 System on sale for 386.99 right now it has controller, regulator silenoid, bubble counter, jet power head, pinpoint ph controller and other stuff only thing it dont come with is CO2 tank, i have it and it does wonders on my tank.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Emerica88 said:


> Looks good did any of the turface float when you added water?


Nope- not one particle. Not sure why others had that problem...



> Dr. Foster and Smith has a deluxe fully-automatic CO2 System on sale for 386.99 right now it has controller, regulator silenoid, bubble counter, jet power head, pinpoint ph controller and other stuff only thing it dont come with is CO2 tank, i have it and it does wonders on my tank.


For that price, i think i'd just go with a GLA setup... thanks for the suggestion though. It's worth looking in to.


Jmhart, thanks for the links.


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## choptop (Jun 27, 2010)

no prob man


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Yeah, that's basically what I got except if you buy it separately you can get better parts for the same price. It comes with a single stage reg but dual stage can be about the same price and is way better. Also, you can run the reactor inline instead of clogging up your tank with another power head (assuming your two eheims give you enough flow which I think they will if you place them correctly and take those pads out). Also, the bubble counter that comes with the setup I've heard is a little shabby and you don't get the exact one in the picture...I would rrecommend a JBJ bubble counter which has a 1/8" npt so in can connect to most needle valves. Hope this helps...


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

> You either need:
> 
> A)a quality regulator (dual stage) and a good needle valve
> 
> ...


I would only add that the third option, though perhaps only for those with more money to throw at it would be to get a PH controller on a timer. In conjunction with a timer, your PH controller can moderate co2 during the day without injecting it needlessly, and at night the solenoid can turn it off again conserving co2 (via your timer). That's probably the best combo for getting the most out of your co2.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Dan the Man said:


> I would only add that the third option, though perhaps only for those with more money to throw at it would be to get a PH controller on a timer. In conjunction with a timer, your PH controller can moderate co2 during the day without injecting it needlessly, and at night the solenoid can turn it off again conserving co2 (via your timer). That's probably the best combo for getting the most out of your co2.


Sounds like a good idea. I already have some timers laying around, so i think i'll do that.
Even though i see where you're coming from jmhart, i think i mind as well get a good quality regulator and a ph controller the first time around. I really don't want to have any problems with this setup, considering that this is definitely my last chance at keeping pressurized co2. :hihi:


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Plus with a good dual stage regulator, if the perfect storm happens and your solenoid fails while your co2 tank is nearing empty, you won't get "end of tank dump" and kill all your fauna.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Looking good AZ. 

Some satin black Krylon Fusion would make those green pipes pretty much disappear IME. All the ones of mine I've painted are unnoticeable from across the room. You just have to be a little gentler in the cleaning process is about the only downside I've ran into.

Here's a great place to look for new bulbs. Pretty much the cheapest I've ran across.


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## maggot (Jun 3, 2010)

AzFishKid said:


> Sounds like a good idea. I already have some timers laying around, so i think i'll do that.
> Even though i see where you're coming from jmhart, i think i mind as well get a good quality regulator and a ph controller the first time around. I really don't want to have any problems with this setup, considering that this is definitely my last chance at keeping pressurized co2. :hihi:


It soitenly is!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Sounds like a good idea. I already have some timers laying around, so i think i'll do that.
> Even though i see where you're coming from jmhart, i think i mind as well get a good quality regulator and a ph controller the first time around. I really don't want to have any problems with this setup, considering that this is definitely my last chance at keeping pressurized co2. :hihi:


Ultimately it's all up to you.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jinx© said:


> Looking good AZ.
> 
> Some satin black Krylon Fusion would make those green pipes pretty much disappear IME. All the ones of mine I've painted are unnoticeable from across the room. You just have to be a little gentler in the cleaning process is about the only downside I've ran into.
> 
> Here's a great place to look for new bulbs. Pretty much the cheapest I've ran across.


That's a good idea. If they were black, they would be much less noticeable.
I really want to get some Giesemann Aqua Flora and Midday bulbs, but they don't make them in a 57.5" version from what i've heard. I've seen people use these bulbs on some tanks, and WOW- they really make the colors (especially the reds) pop! 

I may get a 72" catalina (320 watt/4x80watt) fixture sometime. They use 60" bulbs, which are a lot easier to find than 57.5" bulbs. Plus, a black fixture would look better since the stand is now black.  But for now, the one i have is fine.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

good idea. You will get a good light system.better light,more watts =D. Im also gonna paint my intake pipe on my 37 black.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> good idea. You will get a good light system.better light,more watts =D. Im also gonna paing my intake pipe on my 37 black.


Yeah it's not that many more watts, but still. I think it would be worth getting a catalina light. I could probably get $200-$250 for my current fixture, so that would help with the price a little.

And those fixtures are definitely better quality than the one i have.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Yeah it's not that many more watts, but still. I think it would be worth getting a catalina light. I could probably get $200-$250 for my current fixture, so that would help with the price a little.
> 
> And those fixtures are definitely better quality than the one i have.


 
Good idea. :icon_idea


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Went searching with my dad today for something that would hold my aquascaping tools.
Best option: Tie rack! $6.00 at the Home Depot.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

You got a cute armory there :hihi:.

For CO2 regulator, I agree that if you are willing to spend more than 200-250 it is better to go with GLA. I got my dual stage from Orlando over a year back and it is top notch till date.


----------



## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

> For CO2 regulator, I agree that if you are willing to spend more than 200-250 it is better to go with GLA. I got my dual stage from Orlando over a year back and it is top notch till date.


Too my knowledge, greenleafaquariums does not sell two stage regulators, I still don't see any on his website. A regulator can still have a both a high pressure and a low pressure gauge but not be two stage.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

If you are interested in putting together a really nice dual stage rig, I can help you out. I even have the cga 320 fitting that most of the regs on ebay need. 

Let me know!


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Dan the Man said:


> Too my knowledge, greenleafaquariums does not sell two stage regulators, I still don't see any on his website. A regulator can still have a both a high pressure and a low pressure gauge but not be two stage.


Correct. The smith regulator he sells is nearly as efficient as a dual stage reg though. Orlando gave some specs on it a while ago, but I can't find them. They are hefty buggers.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

+1 for Orlando he will do anything in his power to make sure you are happy.

I'm not sure if you have thought about these fish but rainbows would go nicely in your tank.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Quesenek said:


> +1 for Orlando he will do anything in his power to make sure you are happy.
> 
> I'm not sure if you have thought about these fish but rainbows would go nicely in your tank.


Thanks for the suggestion, but rainbows are one of the few fish species that i don't like for whatever reason. But if you have any "exotic" rainbowfish species suggestions, i'm open to those. :icon_lol:

I woke up today and found that my last skunk cory was dead in the 10g holding tank... i've had more problems with that cory species than any other. Sterbais even do better for me.... not sure why. Aren't skunk corys supposed to be hardy? But i think i've had him for a few years... he looked kinda old and frail last night. Maybe he died of old age? Lol.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

My mom wants me to make covers for the tank because she's complaining about the smell... is there any other way to control/stop the odor from the open tank?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> My mom wants me to make covers for the tank because she's complaining about the smell... is there any other way to control/stop the odor from the open tank?


put some carbon or purigen in your filters.


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## stewardwildcat (Feb 24, 2010)

AzFishKid said:


> My mom wants me to make covers for the tank because she's complaining about the smell... is there any other way to control/stop the odor from the open tank?


I ended up using a big black towel as a cover for my tank and it seems to work pretty well. Just add some velcro to the lip on the top of the tank. It will be a little bit of a challenge since your light hangs from the ceiling but it can keep water and fish in while reducing some smell as well until the tank is running optimally. Mine used to smell but doesnt now that its maturing.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

stewardwildcat said:


> I ended up using a big black towel as a cover for my tank and it seems to work pretty well. Just add some velcro to the lip on the top of the tank. It will be a little bit of a challenge since your light hangs from the ceiling but it can keep water and fish in while reducing some smell as well until the tank is running optimally. Mine used to smell but doesnt now that its maturing.


Yeah it probably smells because it's a newly-established tank. I'll cover it with something until it "matures" a little, like you said. Thanks for the suggestion.


I'm having some problems with one of my filters... i cleaned it, then put it back together, and it didn't work. So i took it apart AGAIN (including the whole pump), and didn't find anything wrong... so i put it back together, and it is working fine now EXCEPT the flow isn't able to stay at 100%. It only stays at 50%-60%. 

When i was putting it back together the last time, the two top lights blinked for a while (which indicates: No water in filter, Pump wheel not installed, Ceramic axis broken, or Pump wheel defective). I can't figure out why the flow won't stay at 100%. I cleaned the whole filter and removed the white floss pad, so there shouldn't be any clogs. Even though the ceramic axis and pump wheel looked fine, do i need to get replacements? Or did i maybe put them in the wrong way?


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

You might want to check the impeller to make sure it's seated well and there are no rocks/ debris stuck in/ around it. If all of that fails you might need to get a new one.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> You might want to check the impeller to make sure it's seated well and there are no rocks/ debris stuck in/ around it. If all of that fails you might need to get a new one.


The impeller looked fine... so i probably didn't put it back in securely. I'll take it apart again tomorrow, and see if that makes a difference. 

I also found a loose spring (about 3cm) and i couldn't figure out where it was supposed to go... there is no information/diagrams about it in the manual. Anyone know where this is supposed to go?

Also... does the impeller/shaft have a cap on each end? It looked like it in the diagram, but mine only had one.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

You might have put the "cap" on the wrong end. IME they only have one.
Or the spring could have something to do with it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank - [FINALLY FILLED!]*

Well I woke up today and the canister filter that I was having problems with last night was at 100% flow... So I guess it fixed itself over night. Glad I don't have to pay $50.00 for a new impeller.


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## hoa101 (Aug 31, 2009)

This is a pretty awesome journal so far. You and your dad are doing a really good job.

I wanted to ask, how many fish did you keep from the old tank? Are they all still chillin' in the 10g?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

hoa101 said:


> This is a pretty awesome journal so far. You and your dad are doing a really good job.
> 
> I wanted to ask, how many fish did you keep from the old tank? Are they all still chillin' in the 10g?


Thank you!

The only fish that i kept from my old tank were the 6 ottos, 6 L144 blue eyed yellow bristle nose plecos, and 3 sterbai corys. They seem to be doing fine for the most part, but i'd really like to put them in the 150 ASAP.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*July 25, 2010* - Update #11

The marsilea is filling in really nicely. I have noticed though that the minuta is doing a lot better than the quadrifolia. I think that's because the minuta was in much better condition when i got it than the quadrifolia was. However, the quadrifolia seems to be making a comeback and i'm very happy with how this tank is turning out!

(by the way, the rock is obviously there to hold the driftwood down.)

FTS









Marsilea minuta.









Marsilea quadrifolia.


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## FBG (Oct 17, 2008)

I've never thought of using a tie rack for aquascaping tools, that is a great idea! Thanks

Nice looking tank btw, more plants! :icon_mrgr


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

FBG said:


> I've never thought of using a tie rack for aquascaping tools, that is a great idea! Thanks
> 
> Nice looking tank btw, more plants! :icon_mrgr


The tie rack works really well. And it doesn't look half bad either! :icon_mrgr

I just moved the other filter over, and i'm acclimating the fish so they can be moved over to the big tank. I just got back from Petsmart to have my water tested (i still don't have a personal testing kit... lol), and they said everything was good to go for fish.

Next step: MORE PLANTS!!!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Can this be used in place of a milwaukee pH controller?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

http://www.reefgeek.com/equipment/C...Std_pH_&_Temp_Probes_&_DC8_by_Neptune_Systems

This one would, the one you linked to doesn't contain a ph probe just the temp probe.

Craig


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Went to Aquatouch today and picked up a few plants. Ludwigia brevipes, pogostemon erectus, sunset hygro, and rotala sp. 'green'. I also got one peacock gudgeon goby. 

It's not much... but hey, it's a start!
Not much will be happening to this tank for the next few weeks. I leave for vacation this Saturday and i won't return until the 15th i think.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That pogo erectus looks _nice_


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Only somebody who knew aquatic plants would not give you weird looks CL...

Looking good!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey there are plants in this tank! Nice work.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> That pogo erectus looks _nice_


I know! So nice that they decided to charge $1.99 per stem... LOL.



Caton said:


> Only somebody who knew aquatic plants would not give you weird looks CL...
> 
> Looking good!


The only plant name that my brother and father know is pogostemon erectus. They are always get a kick out of it.



> Hey there are plants in this tank! Nice work.


Thanks! Needs a LOT more though. I'm considering taking out the java fern on the right side since it takes up so much room... it would make more room for different kinds of plants!

Am i showing the symptoms of collectoris? :hihi:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ugh... found my new goby dried up on the floor. He must have jumped out and i didn't notice in time. I had that fish for less than 2 hours... i feel horrible, LOL!

What's the best way to make DIY aquarium covers? My dad and I picked up some plexiglass and tried to cut it, but it kept cracking. We didn't have this problem when we made covers for my 68 gallon. I'd rather not order custom glass covers and spend a fortune...


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

AzFishKid said:


> Ugh... found my new goby dried up on the floor. He must have jumped out and i didn't notice in time. I had that fish for less than 2 hours... i feel horrible, LOL!
> 
> What's the best way to make DIY aquarium covers? My dad and I picked up some plexiglass and tried to cut it, but it kept cracking. We didn't have this problem when we made covers for my 68 gallon. I'd rather not order custom glass covers and spend a fortune...


Don't need custom glass for a 150. They are the saem for 125/135/150g tanks. I know my set cost about $50 but that was for 6 panes, 3 hinges, and 3 back plates to cut around tubing and such. 

Plexi will be hard to use on this size tank as it will constantly want to deform.

Craig


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

You can also go to Lowe's and they will cut glass for you pretty cheap (probably $8 or less per top) The problem is the glass is a bit thinner than normal aquarium lids.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

CL said:


> You can also go to Lowe's and they will cut glass for you pretty cheap (probably $8 or less per top) The problem is the glass is a bit thinner than normal aquarium lids.


Yeah, my glass tops are 1/4" and tempered.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

So they'll cut glass at Lowes, but they won't cut plexiglass at the Home Depot? :l


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Lowes cuts plexi too. Problem is plexi warps like none other, especially when exposed to humidity.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

CL said:


> Lowes cuts plexi too. Problem is plexi warps like none other, especially when exposed to humidity.


Good to know. Guess i'll have some glass ones made then.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Another option would be going to Aqueon and getting lids.

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/aga-glass-tops-hinged-glass-tops.htm

Looks like you need the size 100 tops, but I'm sure you could just call them and they'll set you up. I have an all glass aquarium as well and I'll be replacing my tops as soon as I can.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rockwood said:


> Another option would be going to Aqueon and getting lids.
> 
> http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/aga-glass-tops-hinged-glass-tops.htm
> 
> Looks like you need the size 100 tops, but I'm sure you could just call them and they'll set you up. I have an all glass aquarium as well and I'll be replacing my tops as soon as I can.


Yup that's another option.
www.drsfostersmith.com also sells a package of 3 glass tops that will fit my aquarium for $55 + shipping.. not bad.

And in response to getting glass cut at Lowe's.... aren't the edges sharp?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Yup that's another option.
> www.drsfostersmith.com also sells a package of 3 glass tops that will fit my aquarium for $55 + shipping.. not bad.
> 
> And in response to getting glass cut at Lowe's.... aren't the edges sharp?


The edges are indeed sharp, which is why I have used fine grain sandpaper (carefully) in the past to dull the edges a bit. There are other somewhat easy methods to taking the sharp edge off, but not that I have any experience.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank*

I get back from Costa Rica early afternoon on Sunday. Pressurized Co2 coming soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

tank is looking sharp. You have a great look of a 150 gallon from your bed, i only have a 37 gallon:angryfire. Welcome back!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank*



VadimShevchuk said:


> tank is looking sharp. You have a great look of a 150 gallon from your bed, i only have a 37 gallon:angryfire. Welcome back!


Thanks!
Our host family has wi-fi, so I've been able to check out the forums every evening. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

nice! Who is taking care of your aquarium right now? Hopefully you dont come back to floating furniture.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank*



VadimShevchuk said:


> nice! Who is taking care of your aquarium right now? Hopefully you dont come back to floating furniture.


HAHA my dad is. He said there's no algae... So I hope everything is fine. 

So excited for co2! Gonna pick up a 5lb tank from an AAPE member, get a pH controller from a LFS, and I'm not sure what i'm going to do about a regulator... I would prefer to get one locally because I want to get it set up asap, since school starts in a week and I still have a lot of work to do... Aquatouch sells a regulator but I'm not sure how good it is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I could hook you up with a great reg if you would like. PM me.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Hopefully the tank won't explode this time. :tongue:


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

*Re: AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank*

Just in time to order RootMedic Liquid! 






> I get back from Costa Rica early afternoon on Sunday. Pressurized Co2 coming soon!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

AZ i cant wait for this to be complete. discus are such neat fish, do you know what type you are gonna try to get?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I decided to go with the GLA Co2 Regulator. I was going to get the Choice co2 regulator, but this one is awfully purrty. xD

Going to pick up the co2 tank sometime this week.. and i guess the pH controller will have to wait since i'm out of funds for now. Oh well.

Didn't see your post CL before i ordered from GLA... what kind of regulator did you have?


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## rballi (Mar 4, 2010)

beautiful setup, cant wait to see some fish in there


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rballi said:


> beautiful setup, cant wait to see some fish in there


Thanks! :fish:


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

You sure are lucky to have parents who let you use CO2.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> HAHA my dad is. He said there's no algae... So I hope everything is fine.
> 
> So excited for co2! Gonna pick up a 5lb tank from an AAPE member, get a pH controller from a LFS, and I'm not sure what i'm going to do about a regulator... I would prefer to get one locally because I want to get it set up asap, since school starts in a week and I still have a lot of work to do... Aquatouch sells a regulator but I'm not sure how good it is.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Woot! Congrats on talking the parents into letting you try co2 again!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Axelrodi202 said:


> You sure are lucky to have parents who let you use CO2.



It took FOR EVER to convince them to let me get another co2 setup, especially after getting burned by liquid co2. Lets just hope the same thing doesn't happen again... i think i know what i'm doing this time. 



> Woot! Congrats on talking the parents into letting you try co2 again!


Thanks! GLA co2 regulator on the way!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ what needle valve did you get w/ it? orlando's super helpful, huh?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> ^ what needle valve did you get w/ it? orlando's super helpful, huh?


http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-regulators/gla-co2-regulator.html
Says a fabco needle valve. Is it ok?

And yes, Orlando is awesome.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

ya, it's a good one. i can't remember the part number, but basically it's the same thing as the fabco nv-55. it just doesn't have as many turns from open to closed as the nv-55. orlando actually has those custom made by fabco just for him. 

how's the marsillia growing?


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

*AzFishKid's 150 Gallon Discus Tank [CO2 COMING SOON!]*



AzFishKid said:


> It took FOR EVER to convince them to let me get another co2 setup, especially after getting burned by liquid co2. Lets just hope the same thing doesn't happen again... i think i know what i'm doing this time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just strap it in a seatbelt with a pillow in front to hold it in place. This time go to the place yourself and get it filled.
When I bought & filled mine the guy told me I should go home immediately with the a/c on to avoid any problems. 

Follow those directions and you should no problems at all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

The GLA is great! It'd go really great with some..... RootMedic Liquid.....


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

This is going to be an insane tank!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> ya, it's a good one. i can't remember the part number, but basically it's the same thing as the fabco nv-55. it just doesn't have as many turns from open to closed as the nv-55. orlando actually has those custom made by fabco just for him.
> 
> how's the marsillia growing?


The marsilia is growing... slowly... but it's still alive! :smile:



vtkid said:


> AZ i cant wait for this to be complete. discus are such neat fish, do you know what type you are gonna try to get?


I haven't decided exactly which types i'm going to get, but here's a few that i like. I also like the very bright, solid orange ones- but i can't seem to find any for sale/can't figure out what they're called. Are they san merahs (with no white heads)? I REALLY like the alenquers too.

Ultimately, i'm going to choose 5-8 discus. I'm trying to get one of every possible color, but most of them seem to have so much blue- lol! Several of them look very similar though, so i just need to figure out which ones that i like better. All of the ones pictured below are from Kenny Chung, except for the big red turk (bottom right)- which is from Central Ohio Discus.


















over_stocked said:


> The GLA is great! It'd go really great with some..... RootMedic Liquid.....


Going to order when i have more money! :flick:



chrisinator said:


> This is going to be an insane tank!


I hope so!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Coming together now.

Now that you're getting CO2 up and going....time to get some dry ferts.

Those plants are going to explode!!!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> Coming together now.
> 
> Now that you're getting CO2 up and going....time to get some dry ferts.
> 
> Those plants are going to explode!!!


I'm going to try out Rootmedic liquid ferts. I'm scared to try dry ferts. :S


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> I'm going to try out Rootmedic liquid ferts. I'm scared to try dry ferts. :S



They're not that bad. There's a lot of great guides out there:

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/dosing-methods.htm

http://www.rexgrigg.com/dosing.htm

I especially like the first one because of it's overview of the different methods. It's also a little easier to follow. Rex's guide fills in some holes. And finally there are a lot of great people on here that can and are plenty willing to answer questions. 

And dry ferts save you SO much money. So much money....so so so so so so so much money. 

Not to mention that they are better for the environment. Dry ferts are cheaper to ship and require less fossil fuels and packaging than liquid ferts. 

Do a little research and save yourself a lot of money...you'll be one step closer to the pH controller if you do.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> I'm going to try out Rootmedic liquid ferts. I'm scared to try dry ferts. :S


Nothing to be scared of. Just read the first post of this http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html and you'll be set.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Way to sell it with the eco-friendly however you sold me with the "And dry ferts save you SO much money. So much money....so so so so so so so much money."


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Oh, and my favorite kind of discus are the white ones, don't know if there is a special name like "albino"...But a pure white one is my favorite.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> They're not that bad. There's a lot of great guides out there:
> 
> http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/dosing-methods.htm
> 
> ...


GAHHH... it sounds SO confusing... but i'll do more research and maybe i'll understand it. Thanks for the helpful links.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I successfully ninja'ed you.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

What is this on the substrate? It's only in the front left corner of my tank... i tried syphoning/removing it, but it won't come off.. When i stirred it around, gas bubbles floated up and it smelled REALLY bad. Lol.

Should i remove it and replace it with new substrate? Or leave it? Or... ???


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Sounds like anerobic bacteria to me. I've never seen it like that before. I've seen it in filters that are left turned off for a long time with water still in them. Turns it all black. I imagine that's what it would look like if it were to develop on Turface.

It's weird for Turface to go anaerobic, but I suppose it's pretty deep right there. MTS will solve that problem, but for now I'd do a real deep gravel vac in that area.

Edit: oh, you tried sucking it out. Ok, instead, you can just stir it all around and get it good and oxygenated or alternatively you could pull out as much as you can from that area in and let it dry for a couple of days (thus killing the bacteria), and then put it back in. 

If you have some MTS some where or can get some, they would solve that problem for the future.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> Sounds like anerobic bacteria to me. I've never seen it like that before. I've seen it in filters that are left turned off for a long time with water still in them. Turns it all black. I imagine that's what it would look like if it were to develop on Turface.
> 
> It's weird for Turface to go anaerobic, but I suppose it's pretty deep right there. MTS will solve that problem, but for now I'd do a real deep gravel vac in that area.


I'm doing a water change right now... but the problem is that the turface is so light in weight that i can't syphon it without sucking it up. 

And about the MTS... i have about 50 assassin snails in the tank, LOL.



> Edit: oh, you tried sucking it out. Ok, instead, you can just stir it all around and get it good and oxygenated or alternatively you could pull out as much as you can from that area in and let it dry for a couple of days (thus killing the bacteria), and then put it back in.
> 
> If you have some MTS some where or can get some, they would solve that problem for the future.


I may just remove it... i have about 1/4th of a trash bin full of extra turface... LOL. But i'll try mixing it around some more and see if that helps.


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

plants growing in that area will solve it too. Aside from the smell when stirred up, it won't harm anything, contrary to popular "a gas bubble that escaped my tank in .5 seconds killed all my fish" myths.

What really killed them is ammonia that was stirred out of the substrate. (which can happen in most any depth, but not very often in a well planted tank)


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jargonchipmunk said:


> plants growing in that area will solve it too. Aside from the smell when stirred up, it won't harm anything, contrary to popular "a gas bubble that escaped my tank in .5 seconds killed all my fish" myths.
> 
> What really killed them is ammonia that was stirred out of the substrate. (which can happen in most any depth, but not very often in a well planted tank)


Good to know. I don't mind it if it's not harmful... it just doesn't look very good, lol.


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Good to know. I don't mind it if it's not harmful... it just doesn't look very good, lol.


I would find something you want to grow and plant it there. The plant roots will oxygenate the substrate enough to get rid of this bacteria for you.

*edit* in fact look at any reef tank with an in-display DSB (deep sand bed) that's been running for over a year, and you'll see a distinct line between the different O2 levels in the substrate. Definitely not the prettiest thing. I've even seen a reef tank owner who painted the glass on his tank black for the first few inches to hide the "black stuff" in the sand bed.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jargonchipmunk said:


> I would find something you want to grow and plant it there. The plant roots will oxygenate the substrate enough to get rid of this bacteria for you.


Blyxa japonica. :icon_cool
I'll see if i can get my hands on some.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Just to throw other options of fertilizing out there, i found the PPS-pro method to be much simpler and less water changes.

http://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Blyxa japonica. :icon_cool
> I'll see if i can get my hands on some.


fantastic choice (and one of my fave 3) there have been several sales threads on here lately for this.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

jargonchipmunk said:


> I would find something you want to grow and plant it there. The plant roots will oxygenate the substrate enough to get rid of this bacteria for you.



I hadn't thought about that. I thought it was weird for Turface to go anaerobic, I never had that problem when I was using it and I had it pretty deep too. That makes a lot of sense.



AzFishKid said:


> Blyxa japonica. :icon_cool
> I'll see if i can get my hands on some.


That's a good one. It develops a really rich root system. In fact, that's what I had in a large portion of my tank that had Turface, so I guess that's why I never experienced that problem. 

Crypts would also be a good choice.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

jmhart said:


> Crypts would also be a good choice.


Yup- i'm definitely going to have some crypts in this tank, but i think blyxa would look really nice in this corner. :fish:


----------



## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Blyxa japonica. :icon_cool
> I'll see if i can get my hands on some.


if you want to wait 3 weeks then ill have some by then.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok after doing a bit of research i think i am finally starting to understand how to dry dose... so i think i'm going to try that out. Sorry Rootmedic, LOL. Love the root tabs though!

Im going to follow Rex Grigg's Dry Dosing Guide. 
He says "Note: I did not say in a 10 gallon tank I said in 10 gallons of water." How can i tell how much water i have in my tank, considering that i have substrate/rocks/driftwood/plants inside?

I'm going to order this dry ferts package from GLA. Do i need to order iron chelate as well?


Edit: Just got an email from Green Leaf Aquariums saying that my regulator was shipped. :smile:


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Hey AZ!! Nice thread, Im not sure how I missed all this. As per your question, CSM+B has plenty of iron for any tank. But I can always send you a free bag of Chelate with your plant food order  Just in case you feel like dosing "Extra" iron 

If your interested in a custom blend just let me know. I would be happy to do so. I have all the minerals needed to make what ever you want.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> Hey AZ!! Nice thread, Im not sure how I missed all this. As per your question, CSM+B has plenty of iron for any tank. But I can always send you a free bag of Chelate with your plant food order  Just in case you feel like dosing "Extra" iron
> 
> If your interested in a custom blend just let me know. I would be happy to do so. I have all the minerals needed to make what ever you want.


LOL glad you liked my 35 pages of mostly whining about why i couldn't have co2. :flick:
What would be the benefits of dosing extra iron? I do like free!



I'm a little confused on how much KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4 i should dose. Can someone explain on how i can figure this out using the information below? I'm having a hard time getting the information "through my thick skull", as he says several times throughout his website. :hihi: 



> Ok, now we are going to mix solutions using 250 ml of water.
> 
> For the KNO3 you want to mix 16.8 grams or 3 teaspoons or one tablespoon (did you know there are three teaspoons in a tablespoon?) into 250 ml of water. Each ml of this solution will give you 1.08 ppm of NO3 in 10 gallons of water. Note: I did not say in a 10 gallon tank I said in 10 gallons of water. Don't know how much water your tank actually holds? Tough. You will also get the side benefit of dosing 0.68 ppm of Potassium in your 10 gallons of water at the same time.
> 
> ...


I guess i don't understand what ppm to reach?


----------



## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Well you could look at this EI dosing method thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html

Just double or triple one of the parameters.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Dan the Man said:


> Well you could look at this EI dosing method thread:
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html
> 
> Just double or triple one of the parameters.


*60~80gal*
50% H20 change-weekly
3/4 (x2 = 1.5) Tsp-KN03 3x a week
3/16 (x2 = .375) Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
15ml 3/16 (x2 = .375)Tsp-Trace 3x a week
4-8ml (x2 = 8-16ml) Fe/Iron 3x a week

But then how much for K2SO4?

Am i understanding this correctly?:
*Sunday*: 50% water change; 1.5 tsp KN03, .375 tsp KH2P04, ___ tsp K2S04
*Monday*: .375 tsp plantex CSM+B
*Tuesday*: 1.5 tsp KN03, .375 tsp KH2P04, ___ tsp K2S04
*Wednesday*: .375 tsp plantex CSM+B
*Thursday*: 1.5 tsp KN03, .375 tsp KH2P04, ___ tsp K2S04
*Friday*: .375 tsp plantex CSM+B
*Saturday*: Rest day

And i just drop the ferts into the tank, right? ... don't need to mix them with water, or do I?
If i were to dose Iron Chelate, would i dose it with the macros?


----------



## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> *60~80gal*
> 50% H20 change-weekly
> 3/4 (x2 = 1.5) Tsp-KN03 3x a week
> 3/16 (x2 = .375) Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
> ...


Bold and red.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Quesenek said:


> Bold and red.


Thank you.




I wish the driftwood on the right would sink... after being under water for over 3 weeks, it STILL hasn't sunk. I guess i'll have to keep the rock on top of it for a while.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Is there anything similar to this that skims the surface, without shooting the particles back into the water? I used this with a power head for a really long time, but it would suck up floating leaves and shoot them back into the water... is there any way to make this collect debris in a bag? Or is there another type of device that does something similar?


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

I put Purigen in my filter, and it magically removed all of my surface scum. Do you have it yet/at all?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> I put Purigen in my filter, and it magically removed all of my surface scum. Do you have it yet/at all?


Nope. I was thinking more of for floating debris though. The skimmer shown above works great for surface scum.

I'm picking up the 5lb tank as well as a milwaukee SMS122 pH controller tomorrow. YAYYYYY i'm actually getting closer to having this thing set up!


----------



## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

Subscribed. Somehow, I never saw this thread until now...I'm looking forward to seeing what you pick for discus. Anything you get from Kenny will be amazing!


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Digsy said:


> Subscribed. Somehow I never saw this thread until now...I'm looking forward to seeing what you pick for discus. Anything you get from Kenny will be amazing!


Thanks! I'm hoping to have discus sometime early next year, considering that they're not exactly the cheapest fish.. :icon_roll Definitely going to get them from Kenny- every single fish that he imports looks amazing!


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## xGROMx (Sep 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Is there anything similar to this that skims the surface, without shooting the particles back into the water? I used this with a power head for a really long time, but it would suck up floating leaves and shoot them back into the water... is there any way to make this collect debris in a bag? Or is there another type of device that does something similar?



I had one of these attacked to my Fluvel FX5 for a while, I put a T in the suction line and ran a smaller line to it, I was able to gauge the flow by adjusting the skimmer. Worked realy well.

So you have a canister to attach this to or a side filter?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Picked up the 5lb tank and pH controller this morning. Looks kinda messy inside the stand- i have to figure out a way to hide some of the cords.  Now all i need is a drop checker.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Woah even the electrical cords look great.

Like the rocks, that tank is flippin huge!


Btw, I'm thirteen, and my biggest tank I can get is only 29 gallons. :/


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Woah even the electrical cords look great.
> 
> Like the rocks, that tank is flippin huge!
> 
> ...


Thanks! I got the rocks from the backyard, lol.

I had two 29 gallons for a VERY long time.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Darn. I only got a 29 and a 16. boring.

LOL I went to Arizona once, and they do have cool rocks there. We only have dumb old limestone which messes up the water.

EDIT: Suscribed


----------



## milsky (Aug 21, 2010)

Great thread mate, talk abt patience...credit to you for getting this right.. I will continue to follow your progress, good luck..


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

I like whats under the stand =D. Are you lacking any water flow? I remember when you were selling the filters to get a bigger one.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

milsky said:


> Great thread mate, talk abt patience...credit to you for getting this right.. I will continue to follow your progress, good luck..


Thanks. Glad you like it. 



> I like whats under the stand =D. Are you lacking any water flow? I remember when you were selling the filters to get a bigger one.


They're doing better than i had thought, but i may pick up a 3rd filter sometime... not sure what type though. Maybe just an eheim classic or something. I like super overkill filtration.


----------



## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Btw, I'm thirteen, and my biggest tank I can get is only 29 gallons. :/


I am thirteen also and either my parents are very lenient or your parents are very strict... Probably the first one :icon_cool

Right now I have 8 tanks but only 5 are set-up.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

*SHOCK* How how? My parents are only strict about the fish tanks, otherwise they're pretty chilax.


----------



## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> *SHOCK* How how? My parents are only strict about the fish tanks, otherwise they're pretty chilax.


Haha, my parents were reluctant to let me get a 20 gallon, I know what you mean.

Looks really good, the equipment is really nice and neat.


----------



## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

VincentK said:


> Haha, my parents were reluctant to let me get a 20 gallon, I know what you mean.
> 
> Looks really good, the equipment is really nice and neat.


My parents got me into nearly all of my hobbies. I remember having an aquarium in my room as early as 5 years old (obviously my parents took care of it). That wasn't really my idea, I think that's just where my mother decided she wanted her aquarium. 

23 years later and I've built her one 20g hobby aquarium into a combined 250g obsession.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This is looking great man.

I just signed up over at simplydiscus.com forums. There are some pretty serious large planted tank projects over there too.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> This is looking great man.
> 
> I just signed up over at simplydiscus.com forums. There are some pretty serious large planted tank projects over there too.


Did you see that 700 gallon stingray/discus tank? Pretty impressive.



Thanks for the compliments everyone. I'm hoping that i'll be able to get the co2 tank filled next weekend and finally get some co2 going in the tank... i also need to pick up a drop checker. The GLA co2 regulator should be here on Monday or Tuesday.

The marsilea carpet seems to be uprooting quite frequently, especially the quadrifolia. Not sure if it's because the substrate grains are small or what... maybe the cories and assassin snails are messing with them?


----------



## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Did you see that 700 gallon stingray/discus tank? Pretty impressive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably a combination of the cories/snails and the turface being light. However, once it's had some time to work with that CO2, it'll develop a root system that will hold it down.


----------



## xGROMx (Sep 2, 2008)

I've got a 30 gallon thats still in use that was in my room as a kid, ~20 years now.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

jmhart said:


> Probably a combination of the cories/snails and the turface being light. However, once it's had some time to work with that CO2, it'll develop a root system that will hold it down.


That or if you have those pleco's in there they could also be the cause.
Mine would like to play with me by pulling up fully rooted stems at night.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Only problem is that my parents (more like my mom) won't let me have a snake. I guess I want what I can't have but I really want one....She has agreed to let me get a terrarium with frogs, but she won't let me get a eel after I told her one climbed out.


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## Miketag (Jun 22, 2009)

Remember me?!? 37 pages on this Journal!!!! WTH man lmao. Tank is amazing btw. I dont mean to sound rude at all but from the pictures on here and your tank setup, your parents must be pretty LOADED!!! how much have you spent on the 150 already? a couple hundred at least, right?
Anyways, the tank is amazing so far, i still cant believe your 15 and have alllll of that in you room haha, i only have a dinky 10 and 5 in my room, with the 30 downstairs :icon_roll
Keep up the great work bro, cant wait to see the finished product, im sure it will be absolutely amazing roud:


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Caton said:


> Only problem is that my parents (more like my mom) won't let me have a snake. I guess I want what I can't have but I really want one....She has agreed to let me get a terrarium with frogs, but she won't let me get a eel after I told her one climbed out.


Choose what you tell them wisly my freind... Only then can you master the art of getting large tanks. :icon_cool


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

They are so weird about water changes, they say its a waste, so I do it when I'm alone.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Miketag said:


> Remember me?!? 37 pages on this Journal!!!! WTH man lmao. Tank is amazing btw. I dont mean to sound rude at all but from the pictures on here and your tank setup, your parents must be pretty LOADED!!! how much have you spent on the 150 already? a couple hundred at least, right?
> Anyways, the tank is amazing so far, i still cant believe your 15 and have alllll of that in you room haha, i only have a dinky 10 and 5 in my room, with the 30 downstairs :icon_roll
> Keep up the great work bro, cant wait to see the finished product, im sure it will be absolutely amazing roud:


I pay for everything that's related to my aquarium with my own money, with the exception of a few things that were given to me as gifts for the holidays. I usually only ask for aquarium stuff anyway, LOL.

And i've also gotten really good deals from several hobbyists over the past few years. Without the generosity of several people, i wouldn't be able to afford continuing my love for this hobby. I hope when i have a ton of plants in my tank, i can do lots of RAOK's (yay for co2!) to say thank you to everyone. Plus, i have my driving permit now and i get my license in November- so now i don't have to bug my parents to take packages to the post office for me!

This hobby is definitely a money pit... HAHA. Oh well, i hope it'll turn out really nice. :icon_cool And thanks for the compliments.



> Choose what you tell them wisly my friend... Only then can you master the art of getting large tanks.


SO true.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> I pay for everything that's related to my aquarium with my own money, with the exception of a few things that were given to me as gifts for the holidays. I usually only ask for aquarium stuff anyway, LOL.
> 
> And i've also gotten really good deals from several hobbyists over the past few years. Without the generosity of several people, i wouldn't be able to afford continuing my love for this hobby. I hope when i have a ton of plants in my tank, i can do lots of RAOK's (yay for co2!) to say thank you to everyone. Plus, i have my driving permit now and i get my license in November- so now i don't have to bug my parents to take packages to the post office for me!
> 
> ...



I ask for aquarium related stuff to for christmas lol. +1 on the money pit but it is so worth it!


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

I haven't gotten video games for years now cause I always ask for gift papers from the LFS.  And cameras to photograph fish lol


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Oh yeah, the regulator came today but i didn't know that i had to sign for it... and i was at school when the mail guy came by... so i have to pick it up from the post office tomorrow. Kinda pissed me off a little.  I was looking forward to coming home today to a new shiny regulator! Oh well. I have no use for it anyway until i get the tank filled.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Okay, I've been trying to stay patient, but we pics!!! UPDATE PLEASE


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Okay, I've been trying to stay patient, but we pics!!! UPDATE PLEASE


Haha i'll try and get some pictures up tomorrow afternoon. I need to finish this stupid spanish essay... what teacher assigns you an essay on the first day of school?! Oh yeah, our crazy shakira-obsessed spanish teacher does!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

What!?! School before Sept. 1st!!! What is this world coming to! 

I also have to do everything with my own money. Which is the reason I have a "job".:icon_eek:


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Jake cool avatar. 

Ya school before September is a crime! I'd sue.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Jake cool avatar.
> 
> Ya school before September is a crime! I'd sue.


Thanks!

Yeah, I am lucky, I am a... _homeshooler..._ **duh duh daaa** :icon_eek:


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Ha nothing wrong with that, more time to stay home and play around with plant lol. 

Public school is fun, but has its drawbacks, lots of books to drag home, crappy lunches, etc.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Ha nothing wrong with that, more time to stay home and play around with plant lol.
> 
> Public school is fun, but has its drawbacks, lots of books to drag home, crappy lunches, etc.


Yea... I just wish I could play High School football!!!

Ok, sorry man for derailing your thread!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Nah i honestly don't mind. I like discussions on my thread. 

My school doesn't have a football team. Not like i care though, lol.
I don't think i could see myself being home schooled... might be fun but it would be really different!


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Football is not my thing, I'm really linky lol.

I'm in basketball and baseball and that's enough for me lol. I spend enough time messing around with my two tanks and such.

I'm excited!!! Getting two shipments this week, plants and shrimp, yaaa


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Got the regulator today. It's very shiny!

We had a big monsoon in our area this afternoon, and our power in our whole house went out... so i'm at my grandma's house right now since our house is temporarily without AC. I hope the aquarium will be ok.

Pictures of the regulator coming... soon. :hihi:


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Its always great to spend the day at your grandma's ain't it?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Its always great to spend the day at your grandma's ain't it?


HAHA yeah. 
:icon_eek:


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Can't wait for the pics, I wanna set up pressurized Co2 but I don't think I ever have $200+ in my pocket at any time.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Pictures!










Pretty sexy if you ask me. 









Very, very bad FTS. As you can see, a lot of the marsilea has been uprooted. Hopefully it'll make a good comeback when i get the co2 going.


----------



## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

That regular is very much sexy. *drool*

Cool watch!

Tank is looking great, love that piece of wood on the left side.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

awesomeness waiting to happen!


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Jawdropping Regulator man!


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## Miketag (Jun 22, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> I pay for everything that's related to my aquarium with my own money, with the exception of a few things that were given to me as gifts for the holidays. I usually only ask for aquarium stuff anyway, LOL.
> 
> 
> This hobby is definitely a money pit... HAHA.


Ok cool, im guessing you work? b/c i do and thats how i paid for my stuff, or is it just a lot of birthday money haha. Im just trying to comapre to other kids my age lol


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## Miketag (Jun 22, 2009)

VadimShevchuk said:


> I ask for aquarium related stuff to for christmas lol. +1 on the money pit but it is so worth it!


It wouldnt be much of a hobby if it wasnt a money pit lmao


----------



## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Home-schoolers rock! W00t!


----------



## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I presume the tank is okay.


----------



## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

One question has been bothering me lately, what site do you use to make those awesome sig link/pic thingys?


----------



## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

^ this site.

here:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lounge/107479-free-forum-signatures-html-java-php.html


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Miketag said:


> Ok cool, im guessing you work? b/c i do and thats how i paid for my stuff, or is it just a lot of birthday money haha. Im just trying to comapre to other kids my age lol


Nope, i don't work. Just get an allowance. I'm hoping i can get a job next summer though. But the main things (filters, light, etc) i mostly get with birthday money or as christmas gifts.

I just realized my birthday is coming up relatively soon... hmmm... it'll all probably be spent on discus, LOL.



> I presume the tank is okay.


The aquarium is fine. If you mean the co2 tank, it's not filled yet. :hihi:



> ^ this site.
> 
> here:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...tank-journals-photo-album/lo...-java-php.html


Yup, msnikkistar created my signature banner. She's VERY good at it.


----------



## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Ooooh okay, cool, I'll get some pics and see what she can do.


----------



## Miketag (Jun 22, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Nope, i don't work. Just get an allowance. I'm hoping i can get a job next summer though. But the main things (filters, light, etc) i mostly get with birthday money or as christmas gifts.
> 
> I just realized my birthday is coming up relatively soon... hmmm... it'll all probably be spent on discus, LOL.
> 
> ...


Haha ok cool, yea i have a job... boooo. i like the new friends and the pay checks, other than that, i want to shoot myself in the foot. But it does allow me to continue the hobby!
I love girft cards, dont you :hihi:
I got my tank filled for just $15, what does everyone else pay??? (5lb tank)


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Miketag said:


> Haha ok cool, yea i have a job... boooo. i like the new friends and the pay checks, other than that, i want to shoot myself in the foot. But it does allow me to continue the hobby!
> I love girft cards, dont you :hihi:
> I got my tank filled for just $15, what does everyone else pay??? (5lb tank)


If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a job? Just trying to think of some jobs that i could maybe look into to earn me some extra cash over the summer. 

Don't know how expensive getting a tank filled here is, but $15 sounds about right.


----------



## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

I love gift cards cause then parents don't have an excuse to make me save it lol


----------



## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

Miketag said:


> Haha ok cool, yea i have a job... boooo. i like the new friends and the pay checks, other than that, i want to shoot myself in the foot. But it does allow me to continue the hobby!
> I love girft cards, dont you :hihi:
> I got my tank filled for just $15, what does everyone else pay??? (5lb tank)


Same except I hate the people I work with and I should be getting paid 3x what I'm now just because I do the work of at least 3 people on any given day.
I got my 20lb filled for $13.


----------



## Miketag (Jun 22, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a job?


I work at an upper class retirement home. Im a waiter in the formal dinning room, i dont work with the dementia people tho lol, some of the residents are really cool, and other are just snotty and rich lmao they expect us to do a lot for wat we get paid i think, but its a job. Ive also been cutting my neighbors lawn since i was 15 or so. $150 a month from them is great gas money :hihi:


Quesenek said:


> Same except I hate the people I work with and I should be getting paid 3x what I'm now just because I do the work of at least 3 people on any given day.
> I got my 20lb filled for $13.


I think long island, (where i live) everything is more expensive:help:


----------



## Herbicidal (Aug 3, 2010)

Nice setup there *AzFishKid*! Looks like I need to start my own tank journal as I am also starting up a 155 gallon planted tank. Your tank journal title is what caught my eye. My plan is to keep Discus too. The tank is still dry, but I do have a 3-D background installed. I'm still sorting out the lighting and whether I will go "low tech" or break down and go with CO2. I'm fortunate that I am about a 2 hour drive from Kenny Cheung's Discus facility in Daly City, CA. I hear nothing but good things about him and his Discus. Perhaps I will have the opportunity to meet him in person and bring home some of his charges in the not too distant future.

Good luck to you and I'll keep following your 'build'. As they say I'm "subscribed". roud:


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Herbicidal said:


> Nice setup there *AzFishKid*! Looks like I need to start my own tank journal as I am also starting up a 155 gallon planted tank. Your tank journal title is what caught my eye. My plan is to keep Discus too. The tank is still dry, but I do have a 3-D background installed. I'm still sorting out the lighting and whether I will go "low tech" or break down and go with CO2. I'm fortunate that I am about a 2 hour drive from Kenny Cheung's Discus facility in Daly City, CA. I hear nothing but good things about him and his Discus. Perhaps I will have the opportunity to meet him in person and bring home some of his charges in the not too distant future.
> 
> Good luck to you and I'll keep following your 'build'. As they say I'm "subscribed". roud:


Ugh.. i'm SO jealous that you live semi-close to Kenny! I'm tempted to fly over there myself and pick some out when the time comes... but i'm not sure if it would be worth the hassle of trying to bring them on the plane. I guess my dad and I could drive over- that may be easier.

Start a journal for your tank! I'd love to see some pictures of the 3D background. I was going to get one myself, but decided that i didn't want to spend that much for one. They're REALLY cool though.

IMO, get pressurized co2 if you can afford it. I haven't set mine up yet (still need to get the tank filled, hopefully later today or tomorrow), but from what i've heard and seen, it is definitely worth it. 

Good luck with your setup!


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Going to get the tank filled tomorrow. Hopefully there won't be another disaster... but i now know how to transport it now, so I should be good to go.


----------



## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Good luck! FINGERS CROSSED!


----------



## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Have you ever talked to George from AAPE? Ive heard nothing but good things about his Discus. Might want to talk to him and see what he has to offer.


----------



## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Going to get the tank filled tomorrow. Hopefully there won't be another disaster... but i now know how to transport it now, so I should be good to go.


i always put the tank in the freezer the night before and then use a cooler to transport it in.

they shouldn't fill a warm cylinder.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

xJaypex said:


> Have you ever talked to George from AAPE? Ive heard nothing but good things about his Discus. Might want to talk to him and see what he has to offer.



No, i have not personally talked to George yet. But i have seen his craigslist adds, and the only discus that i see that he offers are the ogon yellows and red melons, both of which i'm not too fond of... but maybe he has some other types too? I'll have to send him an email. 



> Good luck! FINGERS CROSSED!


Thanks! :smile:



> i always put the tank in the freezer the night before and then use a cooler to transport it in.
> 
> they shouldn't fill a warm cylinder.


Should i put it in the freezer tonight, even though I'm going to put it in an ice chest with quite a few icepacks for the car ride to and from the store?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Should i put it in the freezer tonight, even though I'm going to put it in an ice chest with quite a few icepacks for the car ride to and from the store?


yes.

i wouldn't worry about the ice packs. just make sure the cooler isn't outside for a few hours before transport.

EDIT - 40 pages and NO WATER hahaha


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

> i always put the tank in the freezer the night before and then use a cooler to transport it in.
> 
> they shouldn't fill a warm cylinder.


Is this what many of you do? I know about your CO2 incident but i had my 20# filled room temperature and then drove back in the hot charleston heat for about 20 minutes without a problem. I think someone shared how intensely hot it must be for a tank to even come close to blowing a seal.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

all i know is that my tank is frosty when i hand it over and really warm when i get it back. a reputable co2 filling company should insist the tank is cold. what happened to azfishkid was unusual but it does happen. there is something to be said about playing it safe!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> yes.
> 
> i wouldn't worry about the ice packs. just make sure the cooler isn't outside for a few hours before transport.
> 
> EDIT - 40 pages and NO WATER hahaha


The tank has been filled for quite a while. Do you mean no co2? :flick:



> Is this what many of you do? I know about your CO2 incident but i had my 20# filled room temperature and then drove back in the hot charleston heat for about 20 minutes without a problem. I think someone shared how intensely hot it must be for a tank to even come close to blowing a seal.


This is exactly what I followed, and it's what caused the accident, so i think it's better to keep it cold while transporting to and from your house. It was no more than 90 degrees inside the car when the safety valve blew, so it's doesn't have to be intensely hot at all for it to happen.



> all i know is that my tank is frosty when i hand it over and really warm when i get it back. a reputable co2 filling company should insist the tank is cold. what happened to azfishkid was unusual but it does happen. there is something to be said about playing it safe!


Yup i just called the store and they said they chill the tanks for 5-10 minutes before they fill them, so i mind as well have it cold when i get there. $1 per pound- not bad.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

> This is exactly what I followed


I'm not asking you to follow me on this or attempting to give advice, I'm wondering if I need to start chilling my tanks...a 20# tank blowing a seal in a honda civic would probably either cause a wreck or suffocate me. I also just wondered how many people actually chill theirs. I think someone earlier on this thread posted the psi of liquid co2 and the rating of the seals with calculations of how high the temp must be to reach the breaking point of the seal. If that's correct, I would say it was more of a bad seal then the temp blowing the seal, if not, then I'm sure as heck chilling my tanks!


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

A good refill station will "condition" the cylinder before a complete refill. They do this by partially filling and completely dumping the liquid co2 that is used to partial fill. This method instantly chills the cylinder to ice cold in seconds. A good technician will do this every time they refill.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> all i know is that my tank is frosty when i hand it over and really warm when i get it back. a reputable co2 filling company should insist the tank is cold. what happened to azfishkid was unusual but it does happen. there is something to be said about playing it safe!


I've never been to a refill place that insists on this, and I've been to many places, all over the country. 



Green Leaf Aquariums said:


> A good refill station will "condition" the cylinder before a complete refill. They do this by partially filling and completely dumping the liquid co2 that is used to partial fill. This method instantly chills the cylinder to ice cold in seconds. A good technician will do this every time they refill.


This is what they do.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Dan the Man said:


> I'm not asking you to follow me on this or attempting to give advice, I'm wondering if I need to start chilling my tanks...a 20# tank blowing a seal in a honda civic would probably either cause a wreck or suffocate me. I also just wondered how many people actually chill theirs. I think someone earlier on this thread posted the psi of liquid co2 and the rating of the seals with calculations of how high the temp must be to reach the breaking point of the seal. If that's correct, I would say it was more of a bad seal then the temp blowing the seal, if not, then I'm sure as heck chilling my tanks!


I know, but when i tried pressurized co2 the first time, someone said something similar and i was like "oh, maybe i'll just do what he did" (which was my fault). So maybe you should start chilling it, it might be safer. :flick:




> A good refill station will "condition" the cylinder before a complete refill. They do this by partially filling and completely dumping the liquid co2 that is used to partial fill. This method instantly chills the cylinder to ice cold in seconds. A good technician will do this every time they refill.


Yeah i think thats probably what they meant by chilling it in 5-10 mins. But i'll ask them if they could do that anyway.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> I know, but when i tried pressurized co2 the first time, someone said something similar and i was like "oh, maybe i'll just do what he did" (which was my fault). So maybe you should start chilling it, it might be safer. :flick:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The tank should come back ice cold if they do it right.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

So Orlando, should I chill my 20# tank before I have it filled? (srry for threadjack)


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Dan the Man said:


> So Orlando, should I chill my 20# tank before I have it filled? (srry for threadjack)



Orlando's point was that a refill technician that knows what he's doing will "chill" it for you, so no, you don't have to. 


People used to (and maybe some still do) freeze their cylinders under the false belief that it would allow them to get more gas into their cylinder...but this is not true.


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## NicotineRush (Jul 24, 2010)

Dan the Man said:


> So Orlando, should I chill my 20# tank before I have it filled? (srry for threadjack)


I just moved to N Charleston, so I can't comment on how they do it here, but I have had tanks filled in a number of other states, and all they've ever done is swap out my empty for a full bottle.
Tom


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok so i'm home with the full co2 tank. No problems in the car- thank goodness.

I filled the bubble counter with the fluid, put the regulator on, turned the tank on, and it's reading 600 psi with 10psi working pressure. However, nothing seems to be happening when it's plugged in. No bubbles are passing through the bubble counter. Does the tank need to warm up a little? The solenoid is hot, so i know that it's on.

Do i need to adjust the needle valve? Do i just turn it?


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

do you have a check valve? Sometimes they end up with getting plugged and you have to blown in one end to get the junk out.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> do you have a check valve? Sometimes they end up with getting plugged and you have to blown in one end to get the junk out.


I tried blowing through the check valve and no air passes through.

How do you adjust the needle valve? I tried turning it, but it doesn't budge.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Nevermind, it's working now.  I was adjusting the needle valve the wrong way, lol.

But i can't adjust the pH controller on the back to be below 5.0
I keep turning it, but it wont go down. If i turn it the other way, it'll go up.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Sounds like a needle valve issue or maybe your solenoid is trying to open but it has debris in it. Did you open up your tank to blow out debris? By the way, I don't what needle valve you got but just make sure it doesn't recieve full tank pressure.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

lol...ok


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Co2 is awesome!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Co2 is awesome!


Indeed it is!

My pH controller isn't working properly though.. ugh.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

Why do you want the pH to be less than 5? That would take a lot more than 30 ppm of CO2 unless your water has zero buffers in it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

FSM said:


> Why do you want the pH to be less than 5? That would take a lot more than 30 ppm of CO2 unless your water has zero buffers in it.


I was trying to calibrate it with 4.01 pH solution.

Is it not supposed to go below 5?


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Nevermind, it's working now.  I was adjusting the needle valve the wrong way, lol.
> 
> But i can't adjust the pH controller on the back to be below 5.0
> I keep turning it, but it wont go down. If i turn it the other way, it'll go up.


Nice! I just got my co2 up and running for the first time on friday. What do your parents/siblings think of you tank?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> Nice! I just got my co2 up and running for the first time on friday. What do your parents/siblings think of you tank?


Everyone is cool about it. Dad was a little nervous at first, but I think he's fine with it now.

Is the pH not supposed to go under 4.9 when calibrating the controller with 4.01 pH fluid?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

That regulator will last you a lifetime of use my friend, enjoy 

-O


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Lucky you.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Congrats!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

This is definitely going to be a collectoris aquarium. Here's some of the many plants that i want (my favorites are in bold). I'm sure some of them won't do very well in my tank, but i'd like to try all of them. 


*Ammannia sp. 'Bonsai'*
Blyxa aubertii
Blyxa japonica
*Ceratophyllum sp. 'peru'*
Didiplis diandra
Hemigraphis sp.
Hyptis lorentziana
Limnophila aromatica
*Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba'
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Pantanal'*
Ludwigia sp. guinea
Ludwigia senegalensis
Poaceae sp. 'Purple Bamboo'
*Polygonum ‘Sao Paulo’*
Polygonum kwagoneum
Proserpinaca palustris
Rotala macrandra 'Mini Type 2'
*Rotala mexicana 'Araguaia'*
Rotala pusilla
Rotala wallichii
Staurogyne sp. 'Porto Velho'


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Sorry... imageshack isn't working and i have no idea how to flip images with tinypic.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)




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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> EDIT - 40 pages and NO WATER hahaha


^chalk that one up to drinking and posting... (my bad)

is the co2/ph controller operational yet?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> ^chalk that one up to drinking and posting... (my bad)
> 
> is the co2/ph controller operational yet?


Yup, i think it's working fine now- but it REALLY needs to be calibrated again, so i'm going to go pick up some calibration fluid from a LFS since i threw away the fluid that i had.. heh...

By the way, what pH should i set it to? I heard 6.0 is good for discus.

Edit: Oh, and thanks for flipping the image.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

i could be wrong here, but i think the ph you set it to is the level of co2 you keeping in the tank. and i think that's going to be related to what ever the ph of your water is. 

i'm sure orlando or someone who has knowledge about ph controllers will chime in.


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## lnstevens (Aug 9, 2010)

Actually, I've been reading on Discus and if you want the Co2 to only control the PH for your discus (not as concerned about plants) then talk to whoever you are buying from and find out there water conditions. You can always slowly readjust the PH after you get the discus.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Calibration fluid, drop checker (w/o fluid), and dry ferts arrived today. Yay! Now i just need for the 4dKH water to arrive and i'll buy the blue stuff locally.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

anywhere between 6 to 6.5 would be good for discus


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yippee! Looking forward to seeing your new fish. Hope all is well with you, my friend.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

First, I will say that I'm impressed with your patience and foresight. I think it takes lots of both to execute this project on a limited budget. It's going to pay off. Most people around here piece together multiple small setups with whatever hacked together equipment they can find for cheap and immediately start throwing plants in.


Few unsolicited ideas for the aquascape:

 Consider removing some or all of the stones. As a midwater amazon fish, I think Discus lend themselves well to a hardscape dominated by branching driftwood.
 Manage that collectoritis! After you get your truckload of plants, toss the ones that don't grow well in your water and work your way down from there.
 In my discus days, I saw a lot of planted discus tanks and the best ones (IMO) all seemed to incorporate medium sized plants grown in large, dense groups. Java fern, wendtii crypts, blyxa, anubias nana, etc. A wall of unruly stem plants is where you're headed now.


How about wild type discus? An old fish buddy of mine had a group of wilds in a 180 display, and watching 2 of the pancake sized adults raise a spawn was jaw dropping.

5 simple discus rules

Keep 'em hot
Feed 'em a lot
Change the water
Change the water
Change the water


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Booger said:


> First, I will say that I'm impressed with your patience and foresight. I think it takes lots of both to execute this project on a limited budget. It's going to pay off. Most people around here piece together multiple small setups with whatever hacked together equipment they can find for cheap and immediately start throwing plants in.
> 
> 
> Few unsolicited ideas for the aquascape:
> ...


Thanks for your feedback and compliments. :fish:

There's no way that i'm sticking to ~5 plant species, so i'm going to try out a lot of different plants and toss the ones that don't do well (like you said).

I'm not really interested in wild discus- but it's something to look into.

And about the stones, i like how they look now, but once i get more plants in i'll consider removing some. They're mainly there to contain the slight slope near the back. 



> Yippee! Looking forward to seeing your new fish. Hope all is well with you, my friend.


HI! I miss you! Life is filled with... school, and more school... but at least i have my aquarium to keep me semi-sane. :hihi:



> anywhere between 6 to 6.5 would be good for discus


Cool, thanks.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Yup, i think it's working fine now- but it REALLY needs to be calibrated again, so i'm going to go pick up some calibration fluid from a LFS since i threw away the fluid that i had.. heh...
> 
> By the way, what pH should i set it to? I heard 6.0 is good for discus.
> 
> Edit: Oh, and thanks for flipping the image.





oldpunk78 said:


> i could be wrong here, but i think the ph you set it to is the level of co2 you keeping in the tank. and i think that's going to be related to what ever the ph of your water is.
> 
> i'm sure orlando or someone who has knowledge about ph controllers will chime in.





malaybiswas said:


> anywhere between 6 to 6.5 would be good for discus




AZ, if I'm repeating stuff you already know, I apologize.

pH change due to CO2 is not the same thing as pH change do to water chemistry. Depending on where exactly you are in Arizona, I'd imagine you're water is neutral or really really high and hard. 

Discus like soft water, and soft water generally accompanies a low pH. If you're source water is ~7, and you're buying your discus locally and therefore they are already accustomed to that, then you'll be fine. However, if your source water is much higher than 7, even pushing 8, then you'll need to supplement with RO/DI. 

Once you've got some good pH 6-7 water without CO2, then you can set your pH controller. Lowering the pH with the co2/pH controller is really only beneficial for the plants.

And as Oldpunk said, you should set your pH controller based off of your tank pH before co2 addition. Without fish in there, a ballpark is a drop of 1, so from 7 down to 6. If you have a drop checker, I'd stick that in there. Drop checkers don't look bad, and they are a nice back up. You can use the drop checker in consort with the pH controller to really find out that ideal pH for your specific tank. In all of my tanks, I use a pH controller, a drop checker, and I put my solenoid on a timer so that CO2 shuts off at night....kind of a 3 tier system of control.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I would do r/o simply because its best for the fish and I have heard some horror stories about it. What is your tap pH?


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## aquatic3 (Jun 11, 2010)

*Co2*

I'm at the same stage your at with your tank. Just got up and running 48hrs ago. Co2 issue and fixed last night. My objective is to establish a balanced ecosystem for both plant and Discus, I'm calling it the Aquatic3 Project. See my blog. I'm talking about for months about several key areas you should be thinking about.

Water Supply vs. Water Chemistry

1) Before you calibrate you should know your water parameters out of tap. What are they please? PH, GH, KH, Chlorine or Chloramines?

2) You want stable water for Discus and they can live in a wide range. My preference is to have them at about 6.5 PH. My water out of Tap is 7.4. You don't want to use chemicals (PH down/up) or use your CO2 to bring down PH too much. Will make your water unstable, especially at night. Also, I don't believe a natural ecosystem means changing water 50% per week or 3x per week. Not realistic unless you have juveniles. I would like to see a balance. That's why you need to bring water to a level Discus like. This can be done by adding peat inline or via water supply treatment.

3) Once you understand water supply and water chemistry then you can understand your goals with pressurized CO2. I have the same CO2 GLA set up as well- Calibration packets for 4.01, 7.01 and 10 PH. Read packets. Depending on water temp your readings may be off by .01. My water is 85.
A) 7.01...stick probe into packet. It should go to 7.0 right away (1 min). If not. Take small screw driver and adjust base line (neutral) on front panel of controller unite until meter reads 7.0 in fluid.
B) Next...do the same with 4.01 (slope)...if it doesn't calibrate or read 4.0 right away then you have to adjust from back of controller and adjust slope with small screw driver.
C) You can check 10 if you want...but you need to chose what your slope is and for Discus its the lower end.

Make sure you know what your water parameters and needs are. With all the plants you have in your tank, some require constant macro/micro supplements into the water column. I'm more of low demanding plants and ones that you can control Fertz via root tabs or spot fertilization. Just my .02 cents. Fertz will cause havoc with your GH and Alkalinity levels. Keeping these numbers stable are more important the KH. Stability is more important than PH. Monitoring all your readings over the next 60 days will be critical as you move forward with the your Planted Discus aquarium.

GOOD LUCK.

PS: Where do you make your logo icons at the foot of your page. I like them. I would like to add a Discus to my logo and place it in signiture bar.:icon_smil:icon_smil:icon_smil:icon_smil


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Az(since I know you are iffy on diy ferrs) and Aquatc3:

For the record fertilizers only affect KH and GH if you want them to. On their own they have no impact. You have to add in separate chemicals to alter your KH and GH...chemicals that are not found in all of the common fertilization methods except PPS, which doses Mg and will raise your GH slowly over time if you don't do any water changes.


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## lnstevens (Aug 9, 2010)

I hate to contradict here, but a few things based on my research.

1.) Discus don't live in R/O water. I would think a mix of tap/ro would be a better option.

2.) They don't have to be raised locally to do fine in harder/higher ph water, but he will need to check water conditions with the breeder.

One of our LFS that stock Discus uses more than 50% tap water (PH 8, medium hardness for them) with a mix of RO water and they sell the fish to live in our local tap water without problems (Depending on where it averages PH high 7 to low 8 and hardness of high soft to low hard).

The difference is they had to find a breeder to buy from that had similar water conditions and/or had discus that would adapt. They buy from two breeders, one has harder/high ph water, the other has from there experience adaptable discus. 

They had major issues at first also with fish losses from other breeders.

Essentially from all of my research and from one of my LFS experiences I would think it best to take your tap water and then talk to the breeders so you know how much of a difference between yours and theres, etc...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> 1) Before you calibrate you should know your water parameters out of tap. What are they please? PH, GH, KH, Chlorine or Chloramines?


I don't test my water frequently, so here's the approximate tap levels using an API test strip:
pH- 7.5
GH - 180ppm
KH - 120ppm
Not sure about the other ones...



> 2) You want stable water for Discus and they can live in a wide range. My preference is to have them at about 6.5 PH. My water out of Tap is 7.4. You don't want to use chemicals (PH down/up) or use your CO2 to bring down PH too much. Will make your water unstable, especially at night. Also, I don't believe a natural ecosystem means changing water 50% per week or 3x per week. Not realistic unless you have juveniles. I would like to see a balance. That's why you need to bring water to a level Discus like. This can be done by adding peat inline or via water supply treatment.


Why is peat necessary if co2 will naturally bring pH levels down?



> 3) Once you understand water supply and water chemistry then you can understand your goals with pressurized CO2. I have the same CO2 GLA set up as well- Calibration packets for 4.01, 7.01 and 10 PH. Read packets. Depending on water temp your readings may be off by .01. My water is 85.


I calibrated the front using the 7.01 fluid, and i tried calibrating the back with 4.01 fluid but the meter wouldn't go down farther than 4.9 when i screwed the back. Not quite sure what the problem was. 

I'm more interested in keeping plants than fish, so maybe i should reconsider my discus idea (again) since it sounds like you can only have certain plant species due to the warm temperature of the water. However, i have heard from several people that discus aren't as hard to keep (based on sensitivity to water quality) as most people believe.


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## lnstevens (Aug 9, 2010)

AzFishKid;1144742
Why is peat necessary if co2 will naturally bring pH levels down?
[/QUOTE said:


> If I have read correctly Peat softens the water. That water is a lot harder than what we have here so you will probably want to talk to breaders about your water before purchasing discus. It would be really bad to spend $200 on fish only to have them die when put in the water.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

lnstevens said:


> If I have read correctly Peat softens the water. That water is a lot harder than what we have here so you will probably want to talk to breaders about your water before purchasing discus. It would be really bad to spend $200 on fish only to have them die when put in the water.


Ah ok. I sent the discus importer a note about what kind of water that he keeps his discus in, so we'll see what changes need to be made to my setup.


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## lnstevens (Aug 9, 2010)

Your having them imported? Not buying ones bred in the US?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

lnstevens said:


> Your having them imported? Not buying ones bred in the US?


A man by the name of Kenny Cheung imports tons of top-notch quality discus from a breeder in Malaysia on a monthly basis, then ships them around the world to many hobbyists after being in quarantine for a few weeks. Here's his August shipment that has already been pretty much sold out: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=82122

I've heard so many great things about his discus, so i'm planning on getting all of mine from him early next year.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> A man by the name of Kenny Cheung imports tons of top-notch quality discus from a breeder in Malaysia on a monthly basis, then ships them around the world to many hobbyists after being in quarantine for a few weeks. Here's his August shipment that has already been pretty much sold out: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=82122
> 
> I've heard so many great things about his discus, so i'm planning on getting all of mine from him early next year.


Really nice fish he has there.
If I were you I would save my money and get a few schooling fish for now while you are getting your tank params down and get all your plant stock going then I would consider getting the discus.
While most of his discus are really quite cheap you don't want to accidentally kill them by a co2 failure or something along those lines that accompany "new" tanks.


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## aquatic3 (Jun 11, 2010)

Kenny is great and where I'll be getting my Discus as well. You heard right. It is easy or easier than thought to keep discus. Today there are so many domesticated strains that they have become stronger and more tolerant than Wilds. Kenny will tell you what he keeps his fish at, but he'll also tell you that all the people he has sold to on Simply Discus all have different water conditions and parameters. You don't have to provide same parameters and in some cases it's practically impossible. Many people on Simply Discus and breeders keep their fish at the PH level or greater you have now. It's better not to play around too much with PH if you don't have to. That's why I prefer peat.

You can read my post on Water Chemistry to get a solid background. All the questions are valid, to my point why so many experienced aquarists get confused or rely on either Plant or Discus best practices and selectively focus on what they feel is right. When it comes to both plants and Discus you have to know what your choices and options are. This is not to discourage you, but the direction you're heading in with all the plant selections will cause issues for you for either fish or plant.

Briefly. CO2 is not buffer. This is what Alkalinity is. Keeping your KH and Alkalinity levels higher than what you have is required to be stable. Right now you're low. Why is this important? Well you can lower PH with Co2. However, at night plants don't use CO2, in fact they take O2. Naturally PH will shift during various times of the day and plants only are photosynthesizing at the mid period of your lighting hours. So if you rely on Co2 to bring PH down and you have low kh/alkalinity levels you can experience large unstable PH swings. Discus do not like these swings. It can cause stress, disease and stunted growth. You can also have other factors cause a Major swing and you'll see your fish gasping for O2 in the morning or worse...dead.

Peat is naturally acidic and will help provide a reduction of approximately .5 degrees. So if you have 7.5 and it is reduced to a stable level of Neutral 7.0 you can rely on O2 to bring levels down safely only a few degrees. This way you're not over dosing Co2 and providing added security against shifts. Win-Win.

There are a lot of posts on this subject, however not a lot of people even on Simply Discus are well read up on both Plants and Discus.

I'm in the same boat and looking forward to my Planted Discus Aquarium.

Oh...ping an email to Customer Support at GLA...they are great...they will trouble shoot with you the issue....something is not right if you can't calibrate your slope properly on the the controler.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

> If I were you I would save my money and get a few schooling fish for now while you are getting your tank params down and get all your plant stock going then I would consider getting the discus.


Hey bro, I've been keeping track of your journal for a while now...(which is funny that your tank setup isn't even finished yet and there's been over 26,000 views) and I know that if people were cautioning me about holding off on getting discus and I'd been looking forward to them for months...I'd be discouraged. But for what it's worth, I echo Quesenek's advice. I too am looking forward to getting discus, but despite their growth in hardiness as a species, I've read that still recently it's highly recommended you put them in a well established tank...to me that means not only are the parameters figured out and stable but the tank keeper is well established too. I'm in the same boat as you with this being my first ever planted tank with pressurized CO2 and I've been holding out for over a year due to finances in finishing my setup. You've come this far making excellent decisions...I would encourage you to not quit making those good decisions though the wait can be excruciating at times...at least it is for me. Just my $.02. No matter what, I'll be watching with interest.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

*AZFishKid's 150*

I didn't want to read back through the entire thread to see what kind of ph controller you have, but if you have the Milwaukee one make sure you turn the calibration knob all the way up on the back before you callibrate. For example if it is set on a ph of 4.9 right now turn it all the way in the other direction then go back and start the callibration over using the 7.0 solution and adjust the knob on the front then go back and do the 4.0 solution and adjust the knob on the back. I hope that makes sense. By the way remember to rinse the probe off with the 4.0 solution before adjusting with the 4.0 solution


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

aquatic3 said:


> Briefly. CO2 is not buffer. This is what Alkalinity is. Keeping your KH and Alkalinity levels higher than what you have is required to be stable. Right now you're low. Why is this important? Well you can lower PH with Co2. However, at night plants don't use CO2, in fact they take O2. Naturally PH will shift during various times of the day and plants only are photosynthesizing at the mid period of your lighting hours. So if you rely on Co2 to bring PH down and you have low kh/alkalinity levels you can experience large unstable PH swings. Discus do not like these swings. It can cause stress, disease and stunted growth. You can also have other factors cause a Major swing and you'll see your fish gasping for O2 in the morning or worse...dead.



It is well understood that pH changes due to CO2 do not have an impact on fish like pH changes due to TDS changes. It is an old myth that has been completely abandoned by all experienced hobbyist. It's more about maintaining stable TDS. 

Same goes for the statement that a low KH will result in wild and unstable pH swings due to CO2 injection. That is also a myth and has been abandoned. My local tap water is very soft (KH ~ 50 ppm) and I inject CO2 without these wild and unstable swings of which you speak.


CO2 has no effect on TDS, and TDS is really what is important to Discus. Using CO2 to lower the pH of hard water will have no benefit for Discus, so using CO2 dropping pH from 7.5 to 6.5 for Discus is not the same as using RO water to drop the pH(by way of TDS reduction).


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## Herbicidal (Aug 3, 2010)

AzFishKid said:


> A man by the name of Kenny Cheung imports tons of top-notch quality discus from a breeder in Malaysia on a monthly basis, then ships them around the world to many hobbyists after being in quarantine for a few weeks.


I'm interested in his reply too! My tap water pH is 8.2! :eek5: I just filled the tank with water and I'm running two Rena XP3's with a total of 2 cups of peat (pellets) per filter. I will also be adding 4 four medium to large Malaysian driftwood pieces (already have them and they are soaking in a bathtub) which should help bring down the pH too. The substrate is 160 lbs of Eco-Complete. I also want to keep a planted tank with Discus but would prefer to lower the pH "naturally".


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Lalala... 4dKH fluid still hasn't arrived. Hopefully i'll have it by Tuesday.



> I didn't want to read back through the entire thread to see what kind of ph controller you have, but if you have the Milwaukee one make sure you turn the calibration knob all the way up on the back before you callibrate. For example if it is set on a ph of 4.9 right now turn it all the way in the other direction then go back and start the callibration over using the 7.0 solution and adjust the knob on the front then go back and do the 4.0 solution and adjust the knob on the back. I hope that makes sense. By the way remember to rinse the probe off with the 4.0 solution before adjusting with the 4.0 solution


Yes, it is a Milwaukee SMS122 pH Controller.
Thanks for the information- i'm going to re-calibrate it once i can get the very stripped screws out, LOL.


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## offpath (Jan 18, 2009)

Herbicidal said:


> I'm interested in his reply too! My tap water pH is 8.2! :eek5:


8.2 really isn't a problem for discus. The commonly accepted wisdom at this point is that discus do completely fine when being transferred from low pH to high pH, and in general, it's more important to keep water parameters consistent than to target a specific pH.

My tank's pH is roughly 8-8.2, and I purchased 8 discus from Kenny back in May and they're doing great. When I asked, I believe Kenny said his pH was around 7.8.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

• Did a 50% water change and started the dry dosing today... yay!
• The driftwood on the right still hasn't sank yet, so i'm going to try soaking it in some hot water tomorrow and see if that helps.
• I've been very disappointed with the marsilea. I don't understand how this is considered to be an easy plant... i'm having the hardest time with it! Hopefully with co2 and ferts, i'll bounce back. I guess this is to be expected though, since it was grown out of water.
• Sunset hygro is doing well (is it possible for it to _not_ do well?). Pogostemon erectus and ludwigia brevipes are also looking great! JUST NEED MORE PLANTS NAO!!! (and money :hihi

Updated FTS! (by the way- the skinny driftwood on the right side is not going to be there permanently)


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Don't worry too much about the Marsilea. There are always certain plants that for some reason can never grow in our aquariums. For me, it's java fern out of all things! Also, emersed grown plants do take a while to adjust. Just give it some time.

The scape is looking great so far. Those driftwood pieces are really nice, and hopefully the one on the right will sink soon. Perhaps you could find a place for the skinny piece on the right somewhere be by the big piece on the left?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Don't worry too much about the Marsilea. There are always certain plants that for some reason can never grow in our aquariums. For me, it's java fern out of all things! Also, emersed grown plants do take a while to adjust. Just give it some time.
> 
> The scape is looking great so far. Those driftwood pieces are really nice, and hopefully the one on the right will sink soon. Perhaps you could find a place for the skinny piece on the right somewhere be by the big piece on the left?


Thanks! I'm going to mess around with that piece of driftwood tomorrow and see if it could fit somewhere on the left side. I may just end up selling it though. The only reason i kept it was because there was a tiny bit of moss on it. :hihi:


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Wow that looks brilliant. Keep it up little man.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

UGH... i can't believe how difficult it is do get a freaking 4oz bottle of 4 dKH fluid for my drop checker. It was supposed to arrive today at the very latest, but now the tracking website is saying that it went directly to Boston after being dropped off at the post office in Florida. What should i do? I tried calling their hotline, but surprisingly, their robot offered very little help.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

There is no point in even trying to talk to anyone. It will not change when it comes. Just keep on waiting...


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

You dont have any fauna yet, do you? If not, just crank it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

over_stocked said:


> You dont have any fauna yet, do you? If not, just crank it.


I have my six plecos, 3 sterbai cories, and 6 otos in there from my old tank. I'd crank it up if i had no fish.

I was going to order a bottle from GLA, but they only sell 250ml bottles and the shipping price was ridiculous...

This was only $7.50 shipped from ebay. :icon_roll But the seller didn't offer priority shipping.. only first class.

Anyway.. here's some new pictures. The java fern has definitely made a stunning recovery, and the sunset hygro is VERY pink. The marsilea, on the other hand, could be better.. LOL.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

I love Sunset Hygros! I wish they weren't illegal. They are my favorite plant!


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## lnstevens (Aug 9, 2010)

Chrisinator said:


> I love Sunset Hygros! I wish they weren't illegal. They are my favorite plant!


You realize someone could ship you via USPS some unidentifed plant and no one would check it.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Wow, I have sunset hydro in my tank as well (just got it) and it is just now starting to pink up.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

lnstevens said:


> You realize someone could ship you via USPS some unidentifed plant and no one would check it.


Yep, I just got a plant package a week back and to my surprise he included a few freebies. One being the hygro 'sunset'.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Are you regretting that you went with marsilea as a carpet?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> Are you regretting that you went with marsilea as a carpet?


A little... LOL.
I thought it would be doing much better. I'll give it another month or two, and if it's not completely filled in by then, then i'm going to ditch it.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Sunset hygro is illegal? Oops.

If the Marsilea doesn't work out, you could always try HM.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Im getting a carpet of this and am wondering, did you cut each node spereate or did you leave a few as doubles? Do you think one way is better?


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## lnstevens (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm following this because eventually I want discus. But for me it's a long ways off, so I have time to consider how to convince the wife to let me have a 180.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

chad320 said:


> Im getting a carpet of this and am wondering, did you cut each node spereate or did you leave a few as doubles? Do you think one way is better?


I have a M. minuta carpet in my 15g shrimp tank. I cut it into sections of about 3-4 nodes. I found it was easier to get it to stay in the substrate that way.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I planted all of the marsilea in "strands" about 3" long (or shorter).

By the way- the 4 dKH water FINALLY came! Thank goodness! It only took almost 2 weeks for it to get here. =/

Now i just need to pick up some bromethymol blue from petsmart, then i can finally get my drop checker in the tank!


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

What the heck.... you must have some awesome parents or something! Not only do you have ponds but an awesome tank. My parents would never allow me to have that kind of stuff EVEN if it was my money! They believe money is for food, clothes, and other life's necessities only. Unfortunately, tank and game and entertainment are not part of "life's necessities". I can't wait to become 'independent' and have a stable job.

Anyways, it is awesome! Sunset hygro is awesome, pink and shimmery. One of my favorite plants definitely! I bet dwarf harigrass would look really nice.


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## whitepapagold (Aug 19, 2010)

Peacock Gudgeons are awesome...

Not many people have them but I love them! Im looking to add a pair in the next few months!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for the comments all.  The tank is coming along nicely and i'm just waiting to get some more plants when i have enough money.

Quick question about the co2- i got it filled about 3 weeks ago, and at that time it was at 900psi. It is now at 800psi. Is this about where it should be? I'm using a pH controller so it's almost always on. Just wanted to make sure that i don't have a leak or something.


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## Herbicidal (Aug 3, 2010)

From what I understand about CO2 is that you should have it turn on about 1 hour _after_ the lights come on and shut it off about an hour _before_ the lights go off. The plants are not really using the CO2 when it's "dark". And it takes a little while for them to use CO2 once its "light". Turning off the CO2 a bit early and the plants will use up most of what was in the aquarium before they cut back on their intake for the night. Ultimately this would save you a lot of CO2! No sense dosing when they are not using! :smile:

*Anyone* - please correct if I'm wrong. Thanks!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

I read somewhere that you are supposed to turn the CO2 system on an hour before you turn the light fixture on. This way there is a build up of CO2 for when you turn the lights on. Plants, unlike algae, can photosythesis right from the get go, and do not need time for them to begin. I would turn the system off at the same time you turn the light fixture off also.
This is what I heard anyway. Hope the foregrounders start growing again for ya!
Regards,
Jake


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> I read somewhere that you are supposed to turn the CO2 system on an hour before you turn the light fixture on. This way there is a build up of CO2 for when you turn the lights on. Plants, unlike algae, can photosythesis right from the get go, and do not need time for them to begin. I would turn the system off at the same time you turn the light fixture off also.
> This is what I heard anyway. Hope the foregrounders start growing again for ya!
> Regards,
> Jake


Is there any disadvantage of leaving the co2 on durring the night, besides "wasting" co2?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Is there any disadvantage of leaving the co2 on durring the night, besides "wasting" co2?


Other then maybe there being too much Carbon dioxide in the water for fish, nothing that I can think of.


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## Sharkbait-ooHAHA (Sep 15, 2010)

I leave my C02 on during the night. My controller turns it off after it drops to 6.3. It doesn't go below 6.1 during the night.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Do you have a kH test? The solution for 4kH water isn't complicated. I used Hoppy's guide to make it without a test, and then once I got it I measured it and made slight adjustments.

EDIT: yes, then add pH sorry forget, thanks oldpunk for reminding me.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

*Re: AzFishKid's 150 Gallon High-Tech Discus Tank*

I think you're about where you should be for a #5 co2 cylinder on a tank your size. I only get 3 months out of a #5 on my 29g. You don't have ph low range test? That's all the blue stuff is.

Sent from my HTC Aria using Tapatalk


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Sunset hygro is illegal? Oops.
> 
> If the Marsilea doesn't work out, you could always try HM.



It's illegal to transport it across state borders, but owning it isn't illegal as far as I know. Don't dump it in the local stream either, of course.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I got a stem of it in a huge RAOK package from Wasserpest like a year ago. It is pretty hardy, I can see why it could be a weed. But I've never seen it in the lakes or streams around where I live. I guess that's a good thing?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Do you have a kH test? The solution for 4kH water isn't complicated. I used Hoppy's guide to make it without a test, and then once I got it I measured it and made slight adjustments.
> 
> EDIT: yes, then add pH sorry forget, thanks oldpunk for reminding me.


The 4 dKH water finally came last week if that's what you're talking about. Drop checker is up and working like a charm! 



> I think you're about where you should be for a #5 co2 cylinder on a tank your size. I only get 3 months out of a #5 on my 29g. You don't have ph low range test? That's all the blue stuff is.


Ok good- was just wondering since i haven't really looked at the PSI lately and i was kind of shocked to see that it had gone down 100psi in a relatively short period of time. 

I got the bromothymol blue from a pH test kit. :thumbsup:



> It's illegal to transport it across state borders, but owning it isn't illegal as far as I know. Don't dump it in the local stream either, of course.


I always thought it was just illegal to ship across state borders, but lately i've been hearing from some people that it is also illegal to own... i'd really like to get a straight answer- not because i don't want to break a law, just wondering since i'm curious. :hihi:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok i want some opinions. I know some of you will probably think this is unnecessary/waste of money, but...

Should i hold off on getting discus, and get a catalina 72" 280/480 watt fixture to replace my current one? My reason, which may sound pretty lame to some, is that i want to try out the geismann bulbs.

Cost for new fixture: ~$550 (480 watt) or ~$425 (280 watt) + ~$150 for bulbs. I could maybe get a discount on the light fixture if i tell them that i don't want the included light bulbs...

I could maybe get $150 for my current fixture, so that would help with the cost.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

that's a pretty lame reason to be honest.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

FSM said:


> that's a pretty lame reason to be honest.


:thumbsup:

I kinda thought about it more last night, and i decided against it.. so i guess i'll just get new light bulbs for my current fixture with my birthday money. I still have 4 actinics which i'd REALLY like to replace...


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

Giesemann bulbs are great, worth every penny in my book. The color rendition is awesome, and you'll get a nice boost in PAR over the no-name bulbs that came with your fixture. If your plants are growing fine, I wouldn't worry about replacing the fixture.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Indignation said:


> Giesemann bulbs are great, worth every penny in my book. The color rendition is awesome, and you'll get a nice boost in PAR over the no-name bulbs that came with your fixture. If your plants are growing fine, I wouldn't worry about replacing the fixture.


Yeah i'd really like to get my hands on some, but i don't think it's worth getting a whole new fixture just for them. I really wish they made them in a 57.5" version...

Is there any way that i could make 60" bulbs fit in the fixture? Couldn't i just move the places where the end-pins sit a little farther away from each other? I'd have to get another ballast i guess, since it currently takes 35 watts and the 60" giesmann bulbs are 80 watts i believe. Could this DIY project be done/is it possible?


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Is there any way that i could make 60" bulbs fit in the fixture? Couldn't i just move the places where the end-pins sit a little farther away from each other? I'd have to get another ballast i guess, since it currently takes 35 watts and the 60" giesmann bulbs are 80 watts i believe. Could this DIY project be done/is it possible?


It's a pretty easy DIY. The only limitation would be if you could physically fit the bulbs and reflectors (if you want them) in the fixture. You could easily move the sockets a little bit, as long as space allows. 
You can pick up a decent T5HO ballast that will run 2x80w for about $35. Try the Fulham Workhorse 7. If you don't need reflectors, the bulbs are $50. You can use the same sockets/wire. If you want reflectors, check out the LET lighting reflectors from reefgeek.com. They have an 80w reflector, $25/ea. Those things are PAR monsters, one of the very best T5 reflectors out there. 

with just the 2 bulbs and high quality reflectors, you could easily be in the same PAR range as those Catalina fixtures... for a 1/3 of the price and 1/2 the energy. :biggrin:
So... approx. $150-$170 total, about an hour worth of work and you could be in business.

If you need any help, let me know.

EDIT: just looked at the actual dimensions of the giesemann 80w on reef geek, 57.6". You shouldn't have to move anything!


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

A retrofit kit would be a good solution. You could pull all the guts out of the fixture and put the retrofit in the shell.


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

FSM said:


> A retrofit kit would be a good solution. You could pull all the guts out of the fixture and put the retrofit in the shell.


Why spend the extra money? It's pretty simple to just pop in reflectors and bulbs, and scab in the ballast. and you don't need the end caps or power cord.


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## Herbicidal (Aug 3, 2010)

AzFishKid said:


> Ah ok. I sent the discus importer a note about what kind of water that he keeps his discus in, so we'll see what changes need to be made to my setup.


Did Kenny ever get back to you?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Indignation said:


> It's a pretty easy DIY. The only limitation would be if you could physically fit the bulbs and reflectors (if you want them) in the fixture. You could easily move the sockets a little bit, as long as space allows.
> You can pick up a decent T5HO ballast that will run 2x80w for about $35. Try the Fulham Workhorse 7. If you don't need reflectors, the bulbs are $50. You can use the same sockets/wire. If you want reflectors, check out the LET lighting reflectors from reefgeek.com. They have an 80w reflector, $25/ea. Those things are PAR monsters, one of the very best T5 reflectors out there.
> 
> with just the 2 bulbs and high quality reflectors, you could easily be in the same PAR range as those Catalina fixtures... for a 1/3 of the price and 1/2 the energy. :biggrin:
> ...



Hmm... i like where this is going. Doesn't sound like it would be too hard.

Are you saying that the 60 inch bulbs are actually 57.6"? These are the bulbs that i'm talking about: http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_39_130&products_id=485
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_39_130&products_id=2792

Anyway, even if the bulbs would fit, i'd need new ballasts. But shouldn't be too difficult to DIY from what you've described.

Edit: Just looked on reefgeek myself... it does say 57.6"- Awesome!

So i would need 4 of those Fulham Workhorse 7 ballasts.. correct? 
Do i need those new reflectors?



Herbicidal said:


> Did Kenny ever get back to you?


Yes he did:
"_These days due to much improved genetics, domestic discus can be raised in a pretty wide range of ph and hardness. Stability is more important than trying to artificially adjust your water parameters to a certain range...as long as your water is in range.(which yours do) Mine are very, very close to yours and they are as follows:

ph: 7.6 (when they arrive after shipping should be around 7.0 +/-
temp: 84-86F
hardness: 150-200ppm_"


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Hmm... i like where this is going. Doesn't sound like it would be too hard.


 It's not. and its incredibly satisfying when you get it working. When you consider the price tag on the high end light fixtures that would be equivalent, you are saving hundreds and hundreds of dollars. That makes me feel smug every time. :biggrin:


> Anyway, even if the bulbs would fit, i'd need new ballasts. But shouldn't be too difficult to DIY from what you've described.


Feel free to PM me with questions when you start the build, I bugged the heck out of Niko the first time i did a retro. But since we live in a litigious society, word of warning - it involves electricity, could be potentially dangerous, I'm not a professional, at your own risk, blah blah blah. 


> Edit: Just looked on reefgeek myself... it does say 57.6"- Awesome!


 reefgeek definitely has my loyalty now. Service is awesome, shipping is cheap, and if you ask nicely they'll cut you a deal. 



> So i would need 4 of those Fulham Workhorse 7 ballasts.. correct?
> Do i need those new reflectors?


If you plan on only doing 2 bulbs (all you would need IMO) a single workhorse 7 will do it. The reflectors will really help with light penetration and spread. I just built a 3 x 39w fixture with the LET lighting reflectors, and the amount of light they put out is awesome. It looks like you have your light suspended... if thats the case, I would get the reflectors and then raise the fixture if it's too much light.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

What temp are you at and do you think the higher temps for discus will affect the plants?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

chad320 said:


> What temp are you at and do you think the higher temps for discus will affect the plants?


Oh i'm sure the temps will affect the plants.. but i'm hoping it won't be catastrophic. I'm planning on getting the whole tank planted, and if the plants can't handle the high temps, then i may abandon the discus idea and just go with a huge school of tetras... since i really want to have a stunning aquascape with different types of plants, and i don't want discus to limit those choices. The temp right now is at 78, which i realize is unacceptable for discus, so i'm going to slowly start warming it up and see if the plants can handle it. I know i've been going back and forth between discus or no discus... it's a hard decision, lol! So many different things to consider.


Thanks for all of the help/information Indignation. It looks like DIY-ing the light fixture could be promising and i will look into it further when i have my birthday money.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Ive seen some pretty classy discus/plant tanks so i'd do a little research and see whats being kept successfully. Maybe some of the other discus keepers on here would be of some help? IDK, ive not kept discus myself (water change hater<) otherwise id try to help more. Id just hate to see you with an awesome planted tank one day and the next see how bad they got cooked  Im sure there quite a variety of plants from some of the pics that ive seen.


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## The_Finglonger (Jun 21, 2010)

discus typically prefer 82-86F


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

The_Finglonger said:


> discus typically prefer 82-86F


Yes, and i am planning on keeping the tank around 84 degrees.


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## The_Finglonger (Jun 21, 2010)

I suggest reading up on discus keeping on this forum http://forum.simplydiscus.com/

They have plenty of good readings on keeping discus in a planted tank and what type of plants are compatible.


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## Herbicidal (Aug 3, 2010)

AzFishKid said:


> Yes, and i am planning on keeping the tank around 84 degrees.


My tank is staying consistent at 85 degrees, pH is 7.6 (staying steady) due to peat in both my canister filters and several decent size pieces of Malaysian driftwood. My tap water is ~8.3! I'm basing my plant list on this guide from Aquariumplants.com: http://www.aquariumplants.com/Warm_Water_Discus_Plants_s/20.htm

Plus, I was looking at the plants here on P.T for the "easy to keep, low light" aquarium. Then cross referencing the two lists and selecting ones that are on both lists. It pairs down to not a huge selection, but still enough variety in shapes and sizes for me.  Discus will be coming soon!


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I find that a lot of plants can do well in the low to mid 80's.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Well i woke up this morning and the psi dropped drastically... last night it was at 600, and when i woke up it was at 400. The fish looked very "droopy", so i turned off the co2 and unfortunately i couldn't do anything else before going to school.

All the fish are fine, but i'm trying to figure out what caused such the drastic psi change. Is this the "end of the tank" dump? At what psi should i have the tank refilled? 

Also, i have tons of BBA... i read that co2 should be increased to remove it, along with excel treatments. Anything else i should do?

One more thing... i didn't have time on sunday to do my water change, so i didn't dose this morning and i'm going to do a water change later today. Is this ok?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

It should be fine to do a water change today. School has made it a bit difficult to keep on top of dosing.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Axelrodi202 said:


> It should be fine to do a water change today. School has made it a bit difficult to keep on top of dosing.


You should look into getting an automatic water changer and automatic doser. Have you looked into getting a controller for your tank? If your gonna have around 1k of fish swimming there, i wouldn't want them to die due to heater failure. Controlled would prevent this.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

VadimShevchuk said:


> You should look into getting an automatic water changer and automatic doser. Have you looked into getting a controller for your tank? If your gonna have around 1k of fish swimming there, i wouldn't want them to die due to heater failure. Controlled would prevent this.


I agree. :thumbsup:

Glad you didn't lose any of 'em!


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Well i woke up this morning and the psi dropped drastically... last night it was at 600, and when i woke up it was at 400. The fish looked very "droopy", so i turned off the co2 and unfortunately i couldn't do anything else before going to school.
> 
> All the fish are fine, but i'm trying to figure out what caused such the drastic psi change. Is this the "end of the tank" dump? At what psi should i have the tank refilled?


Could have. Normally it should between 600-800 psi. It could be end of tank dump. But if you have a needle valve in the way, then it should take care of that. Also what is your solenoid connected to..timer or PH regulator? If it is ph regulator, then that should also handle end of tank when PH falls below limit.



AzFishKid said:


> Also, i have tons of BBA... i read that co2 should be increased to remove it, along with excel treatments. Anything else i should do?


I would not recommend Excel in a tank full of Discus. You could loose your fish easily. Water changes and may be some SAE and time to take care of them. + plus photo period and all that.



AzFishKid said:


> One more thing... i didn't have time on sunday to do my water change, so i didn't dose this morning and i'm going to do a water change later today. Is this ok?


 Don't see any problem.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

*At what PSI should i refill my tank?*



VadimShevchuk said:


> You should look into getting an automatic water changer and automatic doser. Have you looked into getting a controller for your tank? If your gonna have around 1k of fish swimming there, i wouldn't want them to die due to heater failure. Controlled would prevent this.



Yes i have looked into a few different controllers- and i'm probably going to ask for one for christmas.

I'd REALLY like to get an automatic water changer, but there isn't a water source/drain in my room. 



> Could have. Normally it should between 600-800 psi. It could be end of tank dump. But if you have a needle valve in the way, then it should take care of that. Also what is your solenoid connected to..timer or PH regulator? If it is ph regulator, then that should also handle end of tank when PH falls below limit.


Milwaukee SMS 122 pH controller. 



> I would not recommend Excel in a tank full of Discus. You could loose your fish easily. Water changes and may be some SAE and time to take care of them. + plus photo period and all that.


I currently don't have any discus- just plecos, cories, and ottos. Maybe i should pick up a few SAE's?


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Definitely not a "dump" issue. One thing I would do is make sure you tighten the regulator to the cylinder with all your strength. Also, if you can avoid it, try not to use chanellocks 
to install your regulator. Using anything like this will result in a leak. A Crescent or AKA monkey wrench is what you want to use. 

Also, with a tank this large co2 would last 2-3 months at most on a 5lb cylinder. *No need to refill until it reads 10-20psi.*


*Use this:*


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> I currently don't have any discus- just plecos, cories, and ottos. Maybe i should pick up a few SAE's?


Ok, even then, my personal preference (after some nasty experiences) is to not use Excel. Other methods take more time and effort, but that's just the fun


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I'm looking into this controller... any thoughts? Looks pretty nifty to me. :thumbsup:


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> I'm looking into this controller... any thoughts? Looks pretty nifty to me. :thumbsup:



That's a great controller. A lot of bang for your buck and perfect for a Planted Tank. It's highly expandable, so it's something you'll hold on to for years.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

That controller is expensive! What do you need it for? What happened to your SMS? Is its the temp controller you also want?


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## MlDukes (Nov 24, 2009)

malaybiswas said:


> I would not recommend Excel in a tank full of Discus. You could loose your fish easily.


 
Whats your reasoning behind this? Just curious cause i lost a couple fish as soon as i started dosing excel. 

I didnt think it was suppose to have any ill side effects...


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

So, to be clear, the AC Jr. is a great full aquarium controller....it's more than just a pH controller.

Don't you already have the Milwaukee SMS 122 pH controller? If so, it's a pretty pricey jump to get a AC Jr. However, you could probably either return the SMS 122 or sell it(you'd take a hit $$ wise).

Also, I wouldn't recommend an SAE. They only eat BBA for about the first 6 months of their life, and then they get really big (6 inches) and territorial and will eat fine leaved plants like mosses and stuff like R. wallichi. Just up your co2 and/or reduce your lighting/photo period. 

Not trying to toot my horn or anything, but check out the link in my sig to the thread I wrote about battling algae.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I am sure that this is all very interesting discussion but it has overwhelmed my limited cognitive abilities. When can I see some more pictures!?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

The controller is just an idea at the moment. I guess i'd like one because it would help keep everything under control, giving me some piece of mind that the fish are OK. However, the only thing that it does (that would be useful to me) in addition to what the SMS122 controller does is regulate the temperature, which i think i can handle..

Here's a few crappy pictures... i got a few new plants and would like someone to help me ID them. AAPE monthly meeting is this Sunday, so i'm hoping i'll be able to pick up a bunch of plants then.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

First one reminds me of a Ludwigia species.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I got a bunch of new plants today at the monthly AAPE meeting. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

- Pogostemon stellatus
- Rotala magenta
- Rotala sp. 'mini' type 2
- Blyxa japonica
- Poaceae sp. 'purple bamboo'
- Lobelia cardinalis 'small form'
- Didiplis diandra
- Staurogyne sp. 'porto velho' 
- Rotala macrandra
- Pogostemon erectus
- Limnophila aromatica
- Heteranthera zosterifolia
- Hyptis lorentziana
- Rotala wallichii
- Proserpinaca palustris

Plus a few others. Special thank you to Cris + others for some awesome plants!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

i call dibs on clippings!!! lol

those are some cool plants.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Nice haul man! Tell me if you have any extra Blyxa or Aromatica in the future. :red_mouth


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Its tomorrow 

Nice score on the plants! I really love this tank.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Here's a few pictures. Obviously, the plants on the right side aren't staying that way- i'm waiting for my driftwood to sink that goes in that spot before i plant them all. And that skinny driftwood on the right isn't staying either.

Sorry about the dirty glass. :hihi:


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

It's coming together...so positives: 
1) The left side is looking good though I feel like it's missing something but can't put my finger on it...maybe move the piece more to the right a few inches?
2) Water looks clear and algae free.
3) I love the DW piece on the left as well.

Improvements: 
1)You might have mentioned this already but I think the right side needs a piece or several pieces larger than even the piece on your left.
2) I think the overall layout would benefit from a leveling of the substrate against the front glass and an even greater slope towards the back. 
Looking forward to this tank's evolution.

-Dan


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Dan the Man said:


> It's coming together...so positives:
> 1) The left side is looking good though I feel like it's missing something but can't put my finger on it...maybe move the piece more to the right a few inches?
> 2) Water looks clear and algae free.
> 3) I love the DW piece on the left as well.
> ...


I have a piece of driftwood that goes on the left, but it's having problems sinking even after being submerged for over 6 weeks. I'm going to pick up some slate this weekend to hold the base down.

Old FTS with driftwood shown:









As for the substrate in the front, i kind of like it that way, but i'll mess around with the levels/slopes this weekend.

Thanks for the compliments and suggestions, i appreciate it.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Lucky you and your CO2.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Few questions:
- When you do 50% weekly water changes, how do you keep the pH at a semi-constant level (tap here is 7.1-ish, tank is at 6.5)?
- I can't seem to get my drop checker to turn green. When i crank up the co2, the pH controller just shuts of quicker and the drop checker remains a dark blue color. What am i doing wrong?


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Psst, make your bed before your mom notices  (Just because I know my mom would not like that...)

I really like the tank, Perhaps some more hardscape or driftwood on the left side? I personally like the substrate wavy in the front rather than in the back.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

wow, i spent way more than an hour reading your whole thread, great job! what drew me in was the discus title (although you are yet to get any). i'm actually doing the opposite of what you are doing currently, i am slowly downgrading from my 125 semi-planted/semi BB discus tank. sold some of my discus today :-(. i'm going for the planted tank challenge now. i did discus for over 4 yrs and i would like to wet my feet in something else. and trust me when i say that Kenny is the man! he can really hook you up, i've ordered at least 3 times from him that i can think of. with regards to the controller, i've always really liked these:
http://store.digitalaquatics.com/
the $99 is a great deal and you can add the temp probe that can control the temp which is pretty cool. the problem i had in my discus tank was that the plants didn't like the warm water very much, plus i didn't have co2. i would have fully planted my 125 but i wasn't willing to start that big. i figured i'd start small in the planted tank scene and work my way up. i do eventually want a 240 but for now i will try to learn as much as possible. there is a plethora of info here. kudos all!


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Few questions:
> - When you do 50% weekly water changes, how do you keep the pH at a semi-constant level (tap here is 7.1-ish, tank is at 6.5)?
> - I can't seem to get my drop checker to turn green. When i crank up the co2, the pH controller just shuts of quicker and the drop checker remains a dark blue color. What am i doing wrong?




I think the answer to both those questions may lie in the same issue.

pH changes do to CO2 are not the same thing as pH changes do to adjustment of TDS. So, if the only thing dropping your pH is the co2, then you don't need to worry about getting it to 6.5 before it goes in the tank.

Additionally, if you are wanting your tank to sit at 6.5, but yet your drop checker stays blue with a 4 dKH solution, then something has to give. Either you can't have enough CO2, or you have to be willing to let it go below 6.5. 

Lowering your pH with CO2 will have no effect on your fish, discus or otherwise and therefore it's not something you should worry about. Just get your co2 to where the drop checker is green, and whatever pH that is will be fine.

The pH controller is meant to be adjusted, not to set a specific pH, but as a way to monitor the pH to tell you how much co2 is in there.

CO2 and pH are directly related, in an inverse manner. CO2 goes up, pH goes down. CO2 goes down, pH goes up.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Caton said:


> Psst, make your bed before your mom notices  (Just because I know my mom would not like that...)
> 
> I really like the tank, Perhaps some more hardscape or driftwood on the left side? I personally like the substrate wavy in the front rather than in the back.


LOL she usually doesn't care. It would look a lot better if it was made when taking a FTS though. :hihi:

Thanks for the suggestion. I may end up getting one more piece for the right side from D.S. Drifter if i see something that i really like. 



> wow, i spent way more than an hour reading your whole thread, great job! what drew me in was the discus title (although you are yet to get any). i'm actually doing the opposite of what you are doing currently, i am slowly downgrading from my 125 semi-planted/semi BB discus tank. sold some of my discus today :-(. i'm going for the planted tank challenge now. i did discus for over 4 yrs and i would like to wet my feet in something else. and trust me when i say that Kenny is the man! he can really hook you up, i've ordered at least 3 times from him that i can think of. with regards to the controller, i've always really liked these:
> http://store.digitalaquatics.com/
> the $99 is a great deal and you can add the temp probe that can control the temp which is pretty cool. the problem i had in my discus tank was that the plants didn't like the warm water very much, plus i didn't have co2. i would have fully planted my 125 but i wasn't willing to start that big. i figured i'd start small in the planted tank scene and work my way up. i do eventually want a 240 but for now i will try to learn as much as possible. there is a plethora of info here. kudos all!


Glad you enjoyed my 30+ pages of complaining! :icon_mrgr 
I haven't had a problem with the temperature yet... it's been at a constant 84 degrees for about 3 weeks, and i haven't seen any side affects with the plants. They all seem to be doing quite well.

That looks like a nice controller- good price too. I'll have to look into it.

Good luck with your first "official" planted tank! What size are you starting with? Have you set up a journal yet?



> I think the answer to both those questions may lie in the same issue.
> 
> pH changes do to CO2 are not the same thing as pH changes do to adjustment of TDS. So, if the only thing dropping your pH is the co2, then you don't need to worry about getting it to 6.5 before it goes in the tank.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help jmhart. I cranked up the co2 a bit (without the pH controller) and i'll experiment a little to see what settings i need for it to be green.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Glad you enjoyed my 30+ pages of complaining! :icon_mrgr
> I haven't had a problem with the temperature yet... it's been at a constant 84 degrees for about 3 weeks, and i haven't seen any side affects with the plants. They all seem to be doing quite well.
> 
> That looks like a nice controller- good price too. I'll have to look into it.
> ...


i am starting with a pretty much brand new 55 which i use to use to grow out my discus. it was always BB with nothing but a heater and filter in it, lol. i have a reg and a 10lbs tank so far. i still need to make stand and canopy, which btw i might have to use your stand design since it looks so spify :thumbsup:. where did you get the doors for it? very nice craftsmanship! i might do a journal but im hoping it wont end up a disaster and have it documented, lol. i will keep following your thread, its very impressive thus far.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rickztahone said:


> i am starting with a pretty much brand new 55 which i use to use to grow out my discus. it was always BB with nothing but a heater and filter in it, lol. i have a reg and a 10lbs tank so far. i still need to make stand and canopy, which btw i might have to use your stand design since it looks so spify :thumbsup:. where did you get the doors for it? very nice craftsmanship! i might do a journal but im hoping it wont end up a disaster and have it documented, lol. i will keep following your thread, its very impressive thus far.


I bought the tank and stand used from a couple who were moving. When i bought it, the stand and canopy were oak-colored (which really doesn't match anything in my room), so i sanded the whole thing and then painted it with black paint, and put some new hinges/handles on.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> I bought the tank and stand used from a couple who were moving. When i bought it, the stand and canopy were oak-colored (which really doesn't match anything in my room), so i sanded the whole thing and then painted it with black paint, and put some new hinges/handles on.


that is a sweet tank you were able to buy. i will try to do something along the same lines . what is your next step with your tank?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rickztahone said:


> that is a sweet tank you were able to buy. i will try to do something along the same lines . what is your next step with your tank?


Right now i'm focused on getting all of the plants in and giving them some time to grow in. Then (hopefully) the second step will be getting discus!


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Right now i'm focused on getting all of the plants in and giving them some time to grow in. Then (hopefully) the second step will be getting discus!


nice! discus can be intimidating but as long as you give them what they want, generally warm water and a lot of food, they will be fine. i'm telling you, if you go to Kenny, even just calling him, you don't even have to buy to talk to him, he will answer any questions you have. i remember he was talking with me on the phone for about an hour going step by step on how to treat my discus. he's a stand up guy.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I get to see Dick Au (discus expert) give a lecture on the 12th


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

Caton said:


> I get to see Dick Au (discus expert) give a lecture on the 12th


Dick is the man as well! his book, trophy discus is a very well written book. I also really love Andrew Soh's books, i have book 2 which he signed for me . i also went to a meet where none other than Mr. Heiko Bleher gave a great lecture. i was pretty heavy into the discus scene, actually, i still am. i'm just taking a minor hiatus. this planted tank bug i have is to just merge both of them down the line. i hope to set up my 240 fully planted one day.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Caton said:


> I get to see Dick Au (discus expert) give a lecture on the 12th


If i could drive up there, i would. Hate you! :thumbsdow

Oh yeah, i'm also trying to get this whole light thing worked out... trying to decide whether i should get new reflectors, bulbs, and ballasts, or just sell my current fixture and get a catalina one... i think im leaning towards a catalina fixture considering that i may mess up with DIY'ing my current fixture, and it'll cost about the same (if i buy the reflectors).

Edit: Decided that i'm going to go with the Catalina fixture. Hopefully i'll be able to order it in about two months.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

I had a bit of trouble myself figuring out what lighting to go with and I choose Catalina too. I grabbed the 4x54w solar fixture. The only complaint I had was the legs were an "add-on" but I'm definitely happy I chose them. 

I think you'll be really happy.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Don't get used to it buuuuutttt....http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/b...t-search-something-out-fatal.html#post1173298


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Dang Caton I am jealous.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Post #710 Pic #2 is Eiichornia diversifolia


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

How many amano shrimp should i get? I don't want the tank to be flooded with them, but i want enough to control the algae.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

5000!


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## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

^^^ i second that!


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

I would get 20, with a tank that big. Are you gonna get the discus for christmas or are you saving up for them?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Amano shrimp aren't the best for discus tanks, as they aren't tropical and require temperatures in the mid-70's at most. As you probably know, discus need temperatures in the 80's, and these temperatures are important to their well-being. However, they can survive several months of higher heat in the summer.


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## SmoothSailor (Mar 15, 2010)

*Canopy*

Hello,
Did you make that canopy all by yourself??




AzFishKid said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _This tank is an upgrade from my 68 gallon (click for old journal)._
> 
> ...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok, so here's what's been happening, and what's going to happen:


I don't think i'm going to get discus. Their higher temperature requirements are limiting what types of plants i can keep, which is a compromise that i'm not willing to make to have a school of discus. My priority is to have a beautiful aquarium with lots of different plants. However, i may change my mind about the discus (again).
In about a month i'm going to drain most of the tank, remove quite a bit of the turface (ONLY where the slopes are- i'm not digging up the marsilea) and i'm going to replace it with a top layer of ADA Amazonia Aquasoil I. The turface+rootmedic combination isn't doing enough for me, unfortunately- so i'm going to invest in a good substrate, which is what i should have done in the first place.
I'm going to purchase THIS Catalina light fixture soon. I will be using 3 Giesmann Aquaflora and 3 Giesmann Midday bulbs. If i can save up enough money, i may even get the 8x80 watt fixture (overkill, i know- but i want to have a LOT of light since this is a deep tank and a lot of my plants are shedding leaves near the bottom of the stem, due to a lack of light).
Someday, i'm going to get a 10/15 or maybe even a 20 pound co2 tank to replace my 5lb. It's only lasting me a little over a month, and my parents are starting to get annoyed with having to get it refilled constantly. There's a place in Phoenix where i can supposedly swap out my 5lb with a larger tank for a fee, so i'm going to look into that.
In the event that i don't purchase discus, my planned stock is: (80?) cardinal tetras, (30?) rummynose tetras, (5) black corys, (5) skunk corys, (5) orange laser corys, (20?) otos, (50?) amano shrimp, (15?) zebra nerite snails, (5?) florida flag fish, (4) tatia perugae, (6) L144 blue-eyed yellow bristlenose plecos, (4?) german blue rams, (4?) peacock gudgeon gobies. Basically what i had in my 68g tank, but more of each. Any suggestions are more than welcome.



> Did you make that canopy all by yourself??


I did not.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Looks like a good plan to me! Sorry to hear about the substrate not working out for ya'. It sucks having to redo things. As far as that fixture goes, it looks good... For a reef tank! :icon_wink :biggrin: You should be fine with the first fixture, but the 8 bulb fixture would be way overkill in my opinion. But I am by no means and expert!

I like your stocking list. You have gotten me to Google Laser cories  that is for sure. 

Good luck with the tank Phillip!


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

In my experience, most plants can tolerate higher temperatures. My tank heats to the mid-80s during the summer, but the plants all do fine.


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## Sharkbait-ooHAHA (Sep 15, 2010)

Hey man,

That's a shame that you are re-thinking the discus. They do require a warmer temp, but I find that they are such an amazing centerpiece compared to plants. But if you say your focus is the plants, then that's what's important to you. However, you'll be spending a lot more money on ferts, lights, etc. because of the size of the tank - for high tech. I eventually want to do a large tank (200 gallons+) with discus, but it should be low-mid tech to save on ferts and maintenance. 

I don't know why you're having a problem with soil. I use fluorite dark and sand and have no problems. I dose with dry ferts from a local nursery and that's all I need. Soil is so expensive to replace, so see if changing the ferts around works before you try that.

The 8x80 watt is way overkill IMO. Sure, the tank is deep, but 6 T5HO bulbs will be fine on that tank.

You can still have some of the smaller fish if you go discus - just don't give up on it yet. Took me 2 years to get them, but now I'm loving it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Sharkbait-ooHAHA said:


> Hey man,
> 
> That's a shame that you are re-thinking the discus. They do require a warmer temp, but I find that they are such an amazing centerpiece compared to plants. But if you say your focus is the plants, then that's what's important to you. However, you'll be spending a lot more money on ferts, lights, etc. because of the size of the tank - for high tech. I eventually want to do a large tank (200 gallons+) with discus, but it should be low-mid tech to save on ferts and maintenance.
> 
> ...


Honestly, my main focus is the plants- not to say that the fish aren't important too, though!

I'm currently using Turface as a substrate, not Fluorite. Fluorite contains nutrients, while Turface does not. 

I'll go with the 6x80 watt fixture. The less money i have to spend, the better!

Discus aren't completely out of the question- but for now, i'm still getting everything planted, and i will experiment with temperatures when everything seems to be doing well. That will be my main factor for determining my fauna.



> Looks like a good plan to me! Sorry to hear about the substrate not working out for ya'. It sucks having to redo things. As far as that fixture goes, it looks good... For a reef tank! You should be fine with the first fixture, but the 8 bulb fixture would be way overkill in my opinion. But I am by no means and expert!
> 
> I like your stocking list. You have gotten me to Google Laser cories that is for sure.
> 
> Good luck with the tank Phillip!


Yeah it's gonna suck having to take most of the substrate out, but i KNOW that it'll be worth it. I had so much better results with aquasoil in the past than i have with turface.

Thanks for your continuing support! 



> In my experience, most plants can tolerate higher temperatures. My tank heats to the mid-80s during the summer, but the plants all do fine.


I hope so- because if i could have all the plants that i want with discus, i'd be thrilled!


*On a side note, some plants just arrived in the mail! Ammania sp. 'bonsai', Polygonum sp. 'sao paulo', golden creeping jenny, and some ludwigia cuba! I'm shocked at how pink the polygonum is!!! Now let's just hope that i can keep it that way.. :hihi:*


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

IME the only type of plants that don't do well in a discus tank are ludwigias. Everything else I tried did very well, although the temp was only about 80-84.

However, in a tank that large, maintaining a healthy school of discus and a lot of healthy, fast growing plants is going to be a TON of work. Lots of feedings, wc's, dosings of xyz, etc, etc.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

In my experience, most plants can tolerate higher temperatures. My tank heats to the mid-80s during the summer, but the plants all do fine.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ohhh boy... i forgot that i'm going to have to keep the fish in a separate tank while the aquasoil cycles. Oh well.

Patches (about 2"x2") of the marsilea are turning brown and dying, literally within a few days time. I can't seem to figure out why. Any ideas?

Algae is everywhere... ugh. Green spot, black beard, hair, and who knows what else. When i put the aquasoil in (and when the fish are in a holding tank) i'm going to crank up the co2 and overdose excel to try and get rid of all of the algae.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Have you purchased the aquasoil yet? I am thinking your problem lies with other things than your turface. I have several tanks with turface and never had an issue above the first days of a new tank. Can you uproot the place where the MM is turning brown and dying and look under the substrate for rotting? I'd pull some up anyway and leave it floating in the tank until you figure it out.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Have you purchased the aquasoil yet? I am thinking your problem lies with other things than your turface. I have several tanks with turface and never had an issue above the first days of a new tank. Can you uproot the place where the MM is turning brown and dying and look under the substrate for rotting? I'd pull some up anyway and leave it floating in the tank until you figure it out.


I haven't purchased the aquasoil yet. However, I think I'm still going to add a layer of aquasoil just because I know that it's a good substrate. I will pull up the nodes where the marsilea is dying when I get home.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Never hurts to go with what you know.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Just discussed the whole aquarium situation with my parents... i'm going to downgrade.

I can't afford to maintain or even get this tank the way i want it- it's just too damn expensive. I'm going to sell everything (except co2 system, and i may keep the filters) and get a 75 gallon. I was looking at one in petsmart today, and i like the dimensions- it's as wide as the 150, just shorter in length and a few inches shorter in height.

Simply put, i think i bit off more than i could chew. 
Oh well, it was fun having a huge tank while it lasted. LOL.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Good idea of the downgrading. I would get a 90 over the 75 and if you can a120 would be nice. 4x2x2 would be awesome to scape. I think with my 37 and 55 it's not to bad but a 150 sounds like a pain.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> Good idea of the downgrading. I would get a 90 over the 75 and if you can a120 would be nice. 4x2x2 would be awesome to scape. I think with my 37 and 55 it's not to bad but a 150 sounds like a pain.


I may consider a 90 but i'm not going any higher than that. It's just simply too expensive for me to get a large tank the way that i want it. The 75 has nice dimensions, so i'll probably go with that.

Later on (after the 75/90 is all set up), i may get a 20L or 40B also to use as a soft water shrimp tank.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Good idea to downgrade. Unless you have a full time job, it would be really tough to maintain a high tech 150, especially if you wound up buying discus.
It must have been a tough decision, but I feel it's the right one if you care more about the plants than anything else.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

snausage said:


> Good idea to downgrade. Unless you have a full time job, it would be really tough to maintain a high tech 150, especially if you wound up buying discus.
> It must have been a tough decision, but I feel it's the right one if you care more about the plants than anything else.


Yeah it's definitely hard to let it go. I finally have this huge dream aquarium in my bedroom, but i can't even set it up properly. 

Oh well- i'm actually really excited to start over. I'm planning on getting a new glass tank so there aren't any scratches/ugly silicone. Only going to use aquasoil this time, and i'm going to get some lily pipes too.

Now i just have to sell my 150g... and shove it back out through my window. :hihi:


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## Jake15 (Jan 21, 2010)

Wow good luck with the selling. I'm sure someone will grab up this awesome tank very quickly. Are you still planning on Discus with the smaller tank?


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

You should look into getting Congo tetras for your new tank. I saw some for the first time and they look awesome. Definitely need pics of the tank getting shoved out the window lol.


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## Stingray (Jul 1, 2009)

You should look into craigslist for your next tank. Sometimes there are good deals on nice tanks.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Sucks to be getting rid of the 150, but I understand your reasoning. Just keeping a 55 up can get expensive at times for me. I'd hate to see the maintenance involved in a 150 gallon.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Wise decision with the downgrade. But it must still suck! :icon_cry: I am having the same problem with my 40g... way more maitanance compared to a 20g. Of course, all the work is what I like about aquariums. roud:

What is the plan for the 75g? Riparium?.... JK! :icon_bigg


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Jake15 said:


> Wow good luck with the selling. I'm sure someone will grab up this awesome tank very quickly. Are you still planning on Discus with the smaller tank?


Nope, no discus for me. Just a school of 1 or two types of tetras, some corys, and whatever else.



> You should look into getting Congo tetras for your new tank. I saw some for the first time and they look awesome. Definitely need pics of the tank getting shoved out the window lol.


Congos are definitely a possibility. And i'll post some pictures of the aquarium being shoved through the window!  I'm hoping to have the thing sold and replaced by an unfilled 75g (with susbtrate/stand/light/etc) in my bedroom before the next AAPE meeting (i'm hosting it). 



> You should look into craigslist for your next tank. Sometimes there are good deals on nice tanks.


I look through craigslist for deals on aquariums and equipment on a daily basis, but lately people have been asking $400, $500, even $600 for an empty 75g tank and stand. Absolutely ridiculous (i just put mine up for $300!). Plus, i'd like to get a brand new tank without any scratches and nice silicone.



> Sucks to be getting rid of the 150, but I understand your reasoning. Just keeping a 55 up can get expensive at times for me. I'd hate to see the maintenance involved in a 150 gallon.


For me, i don't think the price issue is maintenance... it's more like i just don't have enough money to even get it started. Dry ferts are cheap, water is practically free, electricity is covered. But to keep this tank going to get it the way that i had dreamed about it eventually being, i'd need a new $600 light, $150-$200 in substrate, and then plants and fish on top of that.



> Wise decision with the downgrade. But it must still suck! I am having the same problem with my 40g... way more maitanance compared to a 20g. Of course, all the work is what I like about aquariums.
> 
> What is the plan for the 75g? Riparium?.... JK!


Yeah i don't usually mind the maintenance part of keeping aquariums.. it's kinda fun actually. :icon_lol:

Still deciding what i'm going to do with the 75g... i was thinking i'd just do the same scape on a smaller scale, but it would be nice to do something kinda different. I'm definitely not going to have a lot of open space this time (the only reason i did that was so the discus would have a lot of room to move around). This tank will be more heavily focused on the plants. I'm sure it will become a collectoris tank, but hey- that's perfectly fine with me. roud:



Here's my plan so far:

75 gallon black rim aquarium (back painted black)
Black stand (possibly ADA style); maybe a canopy (if it's not ADA style).
Catalina 6x54 watt T5 fixture w/ 3 Giesmann Aquaflora and 3 Giesmann Midday bulbs
Gonna keep my two Eheim Pro 3e 2076 filters. I'm getting a little impacient with them, but i'll give them another go.
Either metal or acrylic intake/output pipes
ADA Amazonia Aquasoil
GLA Regulator w/ milwaukee pH controller and 5lb tank

And hopefully after that's all set up, i will get either a 20L or 40B that will be a soft water shrimp tank.


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## Jake15 (Jan 21, 2010)

As someone mentioned Congo Tetras would be a really nice addition in a large-ish shoal. Another idea could be a group of Denisoni barbs but I'm not sure if they have the common barb attitude.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Nope, no discus for me. Just a school of 1 or two types of tetras, some corys, and whatever else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it sucks about the bigger tank but trust me know what that's like. hence the reason i'm downgrading to a 55 from my 125 to do this planted tank thing. i might just keep my 125 to use in the future once i get things down (at least somewhat down, lol). 

Your plan for the 75 sounds great though! i can't wait to see a couple of groups of tetras in there. make sure they are tight schooling ones roud:


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## sanj (Jan 11, 2004)

I have found my 400g just as easy to maintain as my old 240g and both were easier to maintain than my previous 4ft tanks. But thats just the work side, if it was about buying ADA everything maybe, but I would personally stick with the larger tank, it does not have to be instant everyrhing right off. Then again I dont know your full situation, anyway what ever is best for you. I havent been able to read all the past posts my internet connection is very slow tonight.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

sanj said:


> I have found my 400g just as easy to maintain as my old 240g and both were easier to maintain than my previous 4ft tanks. But thats just the work side, if it was about buying ADA everything maybe, but I would personally stick with the larger tank, it does not have to be instant everyrhing right off. Then again I dont know your full situation, anyway what ever is best for you. I havent been able to read all the past posts my internet connection is very slow tonight.


i agree, it's the initial set up fee that is daunting. i think that it's just easier to set up a full smaller tank than it is to deal with a massive one. this is IMO of course and someone that does plan on going larger later. i think the approach of buying everything little by little is the best one. that is what i am currently doing and my wife doesn't see to get as mad at me this way roud:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Jake15 said:


> As someone mentioned Congo Tetras would be a really nice addition in a large-ish shoal. Another idea could be a group of Denisoni barbs but I'm not sure if they have the common barb attitude.


Denison barbs are also a possibility.



> it sucks about the bigger tank but trust me know what that's like. hence the reason i'm downgrading to a 55 from my 125 to do this planted tank thing. i might just keep my 125 to use in the future once i get things down (at least somewhat down, lol).
> 
> Your plan for the 75 sounds great though! i can't wait to see a couple of groups of tetras in there. make sure they are tight schooling ones


Thanks! My choices are between Cardinal Tetras, Congo Tetras, and Rummynose Tetras, which all school pretty tightly.



> I have found my 400g just as easy to maintain as my old 240g and both were easier to maintain than my previous 4ft tanks. But thats just the work side, if it was about buying ADA everything maybe, but I would personally stick with the larger tank, it does not have to be instant everyrhing right off. Then again I dont know your full situation, anyway what ever is best for you. I havent been able to read all the past posts my internet connection is very slow tonight.


I'd love to keep the 150g, but honestly, it's just not feasible for me at this time in my life. I'm 15 years old with no source of income except a small allowance, and i want this multi-thousand dollar setup. That's going to be a lot of allowances until i have everything that i want. And no, as horrible as it sounds, i'm not willing to settle for low-tech to keep it cheaper for any longer. :biggrin:



> i agree, it's the initial set up fee that is daunting. i think that it's just easier to set up a full smaller tank than it is to deal with a massive one. this is IMO of course and someone that does plan on going larger later. i think the approach of buying everything little by little is the best one. that is what i am currently doing and my wife doesn't see to get as mad at me this way


I totally agree, but i've always thought that it's best to buy everything (or at least the major equipment) at once. I ran into too many problems because i didn't have the money to buy the fertilizers to keep the plants healthy, or the light to keep them growing at a steady pace, or a good substrate.... Thankfully, once i have everything sold, i'll have enough to buy everything that i need to start on the right track.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Much better to get a tank you can afford to go all out with instead of settling for something you're not happy with. Plus, you have many years ahead of you to eventually get that 150 or even a 1500 if you like.


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## xJaypex (Jul 4, 2009)

Oh man what a bummer...

TBH i think the light you have is good enough to grow anything you want. All you would need is the substrate.

Good luck in selling your tank man, hope you find the tank youre looking for too. Craigslist has not let me down so far.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Much better to get a tank you can afford to go all out with instead of settling for something you're not happy with. Plus, you have many years ahead of you to eventually get that 150 or even a 1500 if you like.


Exactly. I plan on having a massive tank when i have my own house! :icon_cool



> Oh man what a bummer...
> 
> TBH i think the light you have is good enough to grow anything you want. All you would need is the substrate.
> 
> Good luck in selling your tank man, hope you find the tank youre looking for too. Craigslist has not let me down so far.


Really? Because all of the leaves near the bottom of my plants are rotting/dying, especially with the pogostemon erectus. And isn't that mostly due to a lack of light?

I'm gonna go with the catalina fixture just for kicks. I want the Giesmann bulbs anyway. :drool:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Are they turning black before rotting or just turning to mush? If they are getting mushy, check out your co2 levels. My pogostemon erectus used to do this is the co2 got too low. Between that, it being a BBA magnet and how bad it smelled when I trimmed it, I pitched it.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Are they turning black before rotting or just turning to mush? If they are getting mushy, check out your co2 levels. My pogostemon erectus used to do this is the co2 got too low. Between that, it being a BBA magnet and how bad it smelled when I trimmed it, I pitched it.


Nope, it turns a brow-ish color then turns clear/white and mushy.

Almost positive the problem is not enough light. The co2 has been pretty constant for a while now.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I understand your downgrading. This is quite the expensive hobby after all! But even a 75 gallon is a nice sized tank. As for fish, I think you should go with cardinal tetras and pencilfish. Both are absolutely stunning in planted tanks.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Dang Phillip, youre scaring me! I am saving for my 300g dream tank myself! I plan on it sitting empty for at least a year tho while I stock supplies for it.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

I'm not sure of the light you have currently, but I've got a 4x54 Catalina Solar fixture on my 75g and it's borderline too much light. If I keep all 4 bulbs (standard 6700ks) on for the 8 hr photo period things grow like crazy and readily turn red almost too readily for my tastes. I want the Blyxa to be lush and super green, but it has a tendancy to turn slightly yellow when unshaded.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok so i know this is kinda pricey.. but what do you guys think? I really like how the stand and canopy looks, and the way that the canopy opens looks really nice too. If anyone has any other recommendations for a stand and canopy, i'm more than open to suggestions. I want a good-looking stand and canopy like this, not some cheap petsmart stand.

$275 - Free Shipping


















$195 - Free Shipping


















If i were to purchase this stand and canopy, i would just BARELY have enough money to buy everything else that i need:
- Substrate: $150-$180
- Light: $200-$300 (4x54 watt or 6x54 watt- i'm leaning towards the 6 bulb fixture, but i may end up getting the 4 bulb)
- Aquarium: $100-$230 (depending on wether i get it new or used)

Total: $920-$1180

By the way.. i think i have a buyer for the light, and there are several people who have inquired about the tank and stand... so i may have everything sold soon!


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

stand and canopy look nice. Why in the world would you want to blind your fish with a 6 bulb fixture? If you were gonna do a dutch 120 gallon planted then yeah but for a 75 you can get away with three bulbs. I would look on aquacave and look into building your own light. 3 geiseman bulb with tek reflectors spaced out evenly should be fine. Plus your parents would like their electric bill a lot better then having a 6 bulbs fixture. That's my 2 cents


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok well i guess i'll get the 4 bulb fixture. After looking back at the pictures of my 68g, my plants looked great in 2WPG... so the 4 bulb fixture should be plenty. 

$135 shipping charge for a 48" catalina light? Ughhhhh..

I was also looking at a tek light, but it'll be about the same price.


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## Emerica88 (Oct 16, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Ok well i guess i'll get the 4 bulb fixture. After looking back at the pictures of my 68g, my plants looked great in 2WPG... so the 4 bulb fixture should be plenty.
> 
> $135 shipping charge for a 48" catalina light? Ughhhhh..
> 
> I was also looking at a tek light, but it'll be about the same price.


 With a 4 bulb fixture you won't be able to raise it high enough in the canopy and you'll end up running 2 bulbs most of the time unless you want to grow lots of algae.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

You could probably build a better stand yourself for cheaper. The canopy is really nice though.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

Too bad. With Christmas coming up you probably would have had the money to finish the 150. I have enjoyed my big tanks. I could never had done them without Christmas and birthday money. 
What ever tank you get, find one with as much depth as you can. Tanks look so much better when you have some depth of field to work with.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Emerica88 said:


> With a 4 bulb fixture you won't be able to raise it high enough in the canopy and you'll end up running 2 bulbs most of the time unless you want to grow lots of algae.


He'll be fine. I'm running a Catalina 4x54 like I said earlier on my 75g. It's sitting on the tank using the legs Catalina sells, so maybe 5-6 inches off the water surface. I have ZERO algae using an 8 hour photo period and my plants are growing like weeds. 

I'm probably using enough ferts for a 100g tank just to make sure they have everything they need and like I said... no problems.


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## Dr. Acula (Oct 14, 2009)

Bummer about downsizing, but I definitely get it. Heck, though, with still at least a 75, I don't feel all that bad for you. The biggest I could afford/convince my parents to let me keep in their house was my 29. But the 75 is a great size, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

By the way, my dream tank at the moment would be a 350-500 gallon planted tank with a blue arowana. Some day...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok so i'm going to go ahead and order that stand/canopy. With the money i get from (hopefully) selling my current setup, i'm going to buy the substrate, the aquarium, and possibly the light if i have enough. If i don't have enough for the light, i'm going to get the light for christmas and get lily pipes and other random equipment with the leftover money.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Is it worth topping off normal ADA Amazonia substrate with the powder type?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

no, not worth it, unless you have already used it before and love powder... most people say great for competition scapes that will be redone after one scape. most of us rescape quite often...so i'd say no...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Should i get the catalina retrofit or the normal fixture? I know that the retrofit is easier to mount inside of a canopy, but it's about $20 more than the normal fixture and wouldn't a retrofit be harder to sell? I'm going off to college in a few years... which means the aquarium will have to go.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't see how shipping could possibly cost that much. I paid about $30 for shipping for my 4 foot fixture, and it's a lot more miles to Georgia.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

FSM said:


> I don't see how shipping could possibly cost that much. I paid about $30 for shipping for my 4 foot fixture, and it's a lot more miles to Georgia.


I know right? I'm going to call them up and see what's going on with that insanely high shipping price.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Since its a 4ft fixture they are going to package it in at least a 5ft box. When I got mine it was probably about that long, and about 12" wide. If I remember correctly, I think any package over 4ft long is automatically shipped as a freight package which could account for the extra price. 

I remember mine being pretty hefty too.

Edit: Actually I just got curious and went to find the receipt in my email. Shipping to TN cost me $41.80.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Why would you have to take the tank down for college? I'm sure that parents as understanding of the hobby as yours will help to keep it up somewhat. You could try making an automatic fert doser. I've always wanted to try one of those.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Why would you have to take the tank down for college? I'm sure that parents as understanding of the hobby as yours will help to keep it up somewhat. You could try making an automatic fert doser. I've always wanted to try one of those.


We've already discussed it. It's coming down when i go off to college.

They don't want to deal with it, especially if i'm going to a college outside of AZ. They've already semi-agreed to take care of my two ponds.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

L O V E the stand and canopy. I would buy it today if I had the cash.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Good news- i called Catalina and they said that they could do $250 shipped for the 4x54 watt T5-HO 48" retrofit. Much better than that $138 shipping quote!


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## Herbicidal (Aug 3, 2010)

Are you going to sell your signature graphic too? Sorry, couldn't help myself. Just poking at you at little bit. :tongue: Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Made a DIY co2 reactor today. Just needs to be glued together!


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Made a DIY co2 reactor today. Just needs to be glued together!


2"? I made mine straight through, hopefully it works just the same. where are you injecting the co2?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> 2"? I made mine straight through, hopefully it works just the same. where are you injecting the co2?


Yup i followed Rex Grigg's DIY Reactor guide.

I saw that some people made straight reactors, which makes sense. I haven't glued the pieces together yet, so i may return a few things to make it straight. It definitely wouldn't be as bulky.

I'm going to inject co2 at the top. Haven't drilled the hole yet.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

cool, it was much easier to build the straight through one:


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

With your reactor, the water still flows down through the top, right? And where do you plan to place the co2 line?


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> With your reactor, the water still flows down through the top, right? And where do you plan to place the co2 line?


the right side of it will be the top side (inlet), the left will be the output. you can see the black co2 line by the right side.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rickztahone said:


> the right side of it will be the top side (inlet), the left will be the output. you can see the black co2 line by the right side.


So it's pushing the co2 bubbles down through the reactor, right?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> So it's pushing the co2 bubbles down through the reactor, right?


yup, that's how they work. i just installed one today. i made mine just like how you're building it. seems to be working great. does restrict your filters output though.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> yup, that's how they work. i just installed one today. i made mine just like how you're building it. seems to be working great. does restrict your filters output though.


Eh oh well... the fx5 has a good flow rate so it shouldn't restrict it too much for me. At least i hope. :help:


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

fx5 huh, you might consider elongating the tube. the 15" rex suggests is for most filters. you might want to ask around.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

I guess your selling your eheims to cover for the FX5 and some extras. Why didn't you go with Crege's reactor? I haven't tried yet but it takes up less space and doesn't affect your flow rate as much as rex/tom barr's reactors.( wont really affect you since you are getting an FX5.) Cant wait for your new journal!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> I guess your selling your eheims to cover for the FX5 and some extras. Why didn't you go with Crege's reactor? I haven't tried yet but it takes up less space and doesn't affect your flow rate as much as rex/tom barr's reactors.( wont really affect you since you are getting an FX5.) Cant wait for your new journal!


Crege's reactor? Never heard of it. Do you have a link?

And in response to making the tube longer, i definitely can if that will be best. It's just a space issue.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Crege's reactor? Never heard of it. Do you have a link?
> 
> And in response to making the tube longer, i definitely can if that will be best. It's just a space issue.


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:27&biw=1408&bih=917

Sorry i dont know how to make a sub title so you click on it and it leads you to a link.....:help:

This is what niko wrote on apc.....

The CO2 is supplied through a barb that is screwed in the lid of the canister. I personally find that pretty risky because the connection barb-CO2-tubing is not very reliable. It would be better to use a nipple with a nut like the ones that some needle valves have.

There is a piece of pipe added in the canister so the water can escape only through the bottom area and the CO2 bubbles have more reaction time. They run the reactors without any media that blocks the free flow.

The canisters have the biggest inlet/outlets available - about 1 or 1.5" (the standart ones are 3/4"). They runn the reactors with a pumps rated about 400 and 600 gph and say that there is no gas accumulation at all.
That surprises me but they are glad they don't have to deal with degassing so I guess all the CO2 disolves at such high flow rates.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:27&biw=1408&bih=917
> 
> Sorry i dont know how to make a sub title so you click on it and it leads you to a link.....:help:
> 
> ...



Hmm.. interesting. 
Something to look into, but i think i'm gonna stick with the rex grigg style reactor for now. We spent a few hours looking for all of the parts today, haha.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

Thx only problem I foresee with your reactor with the fx5 combo us that your fx5 might have TOO much flow and might not give the co2 time to dissolve. I say make the reactor at least 24"


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

rickztahone said:


> Thx only problem I foresee with your reactor with the fx5 combo us that your fx5 might have TOO much flow and might not give the co2 time to dissolve. I say make the reactor at least 24"



Hmm.. reactor's can't sit sideways, right?

I can make it 2" longer without having to keep it outside of the stand. Technically, it's 23.5" tall with all of the fittings (except the clear-ish nozzles). I could remove the extra space at the bottom of the reactor by replacing it with an elbow pvc pipe. Would that help at all?


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

AzFishKid said:


> Hmm.. reactor's can't sit sideways, right?
> 
> I can make it 2" longer without having to keep it outside of the stand. Technically, it's 23.5" tall with all of the fittings (except the clear-ish nozzles). I could remove the extra space at the bottom of the reactor by replacing it with an elbow pvc pipe. Would that help at all?


It has to be vertical. I say make it as long as you can reasonably make it


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

With a 25" pipe, it's almost 36" tall.
I guess i could put it behind the stand.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

I say just try that length out and if worse comes to worse just make another one and reuse the barbs


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Or what if i hooked the reactor up to a separate inline pump? What about something like this? Then i could keep the smaller version of the reactor, but still have the fx5.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

UPDATE:

Light fixture is sold and gone, tank+stand are pending pickup.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Or what if i hooked the reactor up to a separate inline pump? What about something like this? Then i could keep the smaller version of the reactor, but still have the fx5.


that would work great. you could also hook it up tom barr style. just search venturi reactor on his site


AzFishKid said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Light fixture is sold and gone, tank+stand are pending pickup.


woo hoo!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Stand and canopy are on their way! They should be here between November 12-18 (the 18th is my birthday, 16 woo-hoo!).
I'm planning on painting both the stand and canopy the same black color, but i'm open to any other suggestions. Staining would be even better if i could find something dark enough.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

They make an Ebony stain, that I think would be the way to go. It's darker than what walnut would be. From a distance ebony stained wood will look like its painted black but as you get closer you can see the grain and quality of wood. I think it would look great. 

It will be a little more effort, as you have to take your time, sand it, etc., but I think in the end it will be more than worth it. It would be a shame to just paint over all that nicer wood. Save the paint for the plywood and pine stands.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Here are some examples of what I am talking about to give you an idea.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Yeah i agree, the ebony definitely does look nicer. When i checked last, my local Home Depot didn't have any, but i'll stop by Lowe's sometime and see if they can supply me with some.

On a side note, i started moving the flagfish over to the 10g holding tank. Tomorrow afternoon i'm going to move the remaining fish and snails over. The couple who is buying the 150g tank and stand are going to stop by Saturday to get it. Woo-hoo!

Then, with the money from the light and aquarium sales, i'm going to purchase this retrofit and two of these fans to keep the inside of the canopy cool, and hopefully i'll have enough left to get a majority (if not all) of the aquasoil. Then i just have to figure out how i'm going to get the actual aquarium... LOL. I'm still trying to sell my Eheim's.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

you could always try Sherwin williams too and see if they can get that stain for you.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Thanks, i'll call up Sherwin Williams sometime. I never thought about looking there.

Almost done tearing apart the tank... it was a pain to take out all of that turface!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

AzFishKid said:


> With a 25" pipe, it's almost 36" tall.
> I guess i could put it behind the stand.


If you can find fittings that's not at a 90°, it would be better. Over time, the flow from the filter will lessen and every 90° will significantly contribute to that.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

mistergreen said:


> If you can find fittings that's not at a 90°, it would be better. Over time, the flow from the filter will lessen and every 90° will significantly contribute to that.


Yup I saw some parts at Home Depot, so i'll return the ones i have to make it straight. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Ok, so i returned some of the PVC pieces and i got new ones to make the reactor straight. 

A few people came by this morning to purchase the tank and stand. So it's gone now!

Stand and canopy are on the way. I'm still trying to find a decently-priced aquarium on craigslist. I really want a new one, but i think i'd have to slit my wrists if i were to have to spend $230 at Petsmart for one. Any suggestions? I want one with minimal scratching and silicone that is in good shape, so preferably new.

Going to order the retrofit from catalina really soon, and hopefully find an aquarium after that... then worry about getting the aquasoil.


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## fitness2go (Oct 13, 2005)

What about the filters is making you impatient?



AzFishKid said:


> [*]Gonna keep my two Eheim Pro 3e 2076 filters. I'm getting a little impacient with them, but i'll give them another go.


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