# Help I feel stuck!



## Emilioepo (Oct 31, 2019)

Hey Guys I've been running this tank for about a month already and recently I started dosing with thriveC and i started getting i would say filamentous algae maybe hair algae but its not super green its more of a brownish color as you see on the pict and some green spot on a few plants.

Setup:
Tank: UNS 5N 4 Gallon
Co2 Not yet will start in the next 2 weeks
light: nano fluval 3.0 schedule below 
filter: azoo 10 HOB
1 betta fish and 1 nerite snail 

I do about 1-2 water changes per week since this started I cut back on the dosing added a few amano shrimps that didnt o well :grin2:>. Basically I feel stuck in finding out the right balance and wanted to get your feedback. My last resort would be flourish excel but im doing everything possible not to use it

Thanks in advance!


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Did you fishless cycle? 

PH, KH, GH, readings of both your tank and change water source? Nitrate and phosphate readings?


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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> Did you fishless cycle?
> 
> PH, KH, GH, readings of both your tank and change water source? Nitrate and phosphate readings?


phosphate N/A don't have a way of reading 
Nitrate 0 two days ago 

In tank
ph:7.4 kh: 40 gh: closer to 150


tap water
ph:7.8 kh: 40 gh: closer to 150


It was a gift to me so it was fish cycle and im doing my best to get everything to work because the hobby has grown a lot in me.


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

Nitrate shouldn't be zero, are you doing the test correctly, if it's liquid api kit you have to shake the heck out of bottle #2 for 30 seconds before you add those drops.

I have the same stuff in my tank and it seems to be helping by me increasing my dosage of phosphate, flow is also important so make sure you have no dead zones, I'm not real good with ferts and dosing, it looks like staghorn to me which has the same root causes as green fuzz algae, hair algae thread algae which is see attached Pic from Dennis website, if your plants aren't growing algae will. https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/control-algae-types.html








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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

All of the above, but I'd just dial my lighting back to 50% for no more than 6-hours a day until you get your CO2 dialed-in. Keep dosing according to directions. Give it a few weeks after dialing the CO2 in and then report. You are pretty early in the game to be considered stable yet. Try to get the test kits needed, as above, and keep the tank and filter clean. I find the Salifert nitrate kit much easier to read than others.


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

And remember this, don't make to many changes thinking something isn't working as without c02 or even with results aren't instant, takes about a month without c02 to see a difference good or bad, with about 1.5-2 weeks sometimes longer 

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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Both these^^^^^^

As stated, just turn your light down. Make that change no other, dosing and water changes just as it is now. Give it a couple weeks + and see if algae starts to go away. 

Basically if think you were giving plants a bit more fert than they really needed being tank is new and at same time giving tank way to much light. I would just cut intensity to 50% and leave photoperiod same but shorten duration of highest intensity, 2.5-3hr ramp up morn, same for ramp down in eve. I’d also bump up blue to 12-15% across middle.

Also get needed test kits.


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

DaveKS said:


> Both these^^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's mine, I've been running this for a week and haven't seen any increase in algae, I dint run c02 either, my lights on for a lonnnnnng time though so I'll probably shorten the photo period if I see any increase in algae but leave intensity the same, sometimes not enough light can cause things as well, as if plants aren't thriving algae takes hold.








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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

But yeah to much light will definitely cause algae, blue light is especially bad for hair algae with the fluval 3.0, I'm running 30% for 3 hours on my program but I haven't seen any increase in anything but it's only been a week. Also with plants you can get algae with not enough ferts, if nitrate bottoms out you'll get bga, hair algae etc etc, with thrive c it's engineered to be used like lean EI/lean PPS pro, haven't deciphered the difference yet but I will say to make it simple, it's meant to be dosed multiple times a week for nutrient consistency, if your nutrients drop out for example: potassium then plants won't uptake other nutrients, plants need specific nutrients to uptake others ( like the human body won't absorb calcium without vitamin D) having too less of nutrients is worse than having to much as a consistent nutrient level is mandatory, so say your tank calls for 6 ml instead of doing 3 pumps (1 pump is 2 ml) in one day and not dosing again for the week your nutrients are going to bottom and cause algae, so do 1 pump 3 x weekly instead on 3 pumps 1 time to keep nutrients in the water. 

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## Emilioepo (Oct 31, 2019)

Hey guys! 

Thanks all for the feedback. I do have a master kit I will order phosphate shortly. 

I am running my lights for about 5hrs and just reduced the intensity to 50%. 

I will continue to dose with ThriveC but i think i'll have to get a dripper because I soon as i do 1 full pump I even aim for less the next day the algae on the moss turns into a bush. 

I'll report back in the next two weeks or so once i have co2 running which i believe by next friday ill have it set up. 

Again thank you and if anyone else wants to chip in feel free


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

Emilioepo said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have a 4 gallon tank, that's about 3 gallons of water, you should be dosing about 0.25 ml 3 x weekly not 2ml (1 pump) , so you would do like a lil spritz not a full pump, but yes go to a pharmacy and get a syringe they use for giving kids medicines, they are about $1.00 and dose 0.25 ml 3 x weekly this won't change with c02 either unless you start seeing your nutrients dropping out, like do a test, on water change day after tanks refilled do a tank water test only for nitrate write down the reading , then add 0.25 ml which is approx 2ppm nitrate, wait an hour and retest, so say your tanks nitrate is 5 with no ferts added, after you add ferts it should be around 7 ppm, retest again 48 hours later and see if your nitrates are back to zero or way lower than what you recorded after adding ferts. 

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## Emilioepo (Oct 31, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> You have a 4 gallon tank, that's about 3 gallons of water, you should be dosing about 0.25 ml 3 x weekly not 2ml (1 pump) , so you would do like a lil spritz not a full pump, but yes go to a pharmacy and get a syringe they use for giving kids medicines, they are about $1.00 and dose 0.25 ml 3 x weekly this won't change with c02 either unless you start seeing your nutrients dropping out, like do a test, on water change day after tanks refilled do a tank water test only for nitrate write down the reading , then add 0.25 ml which is approx 2ppm nitrate, wait an hour and retest, so say your tanks nitrate is 5 with no ferts added, after you add ferts it should be around 7 ppm, retest again 48 hours later and see if your nitrates are back to zero or way lower than what you recorded after adding ferts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


ok so from the api test kit i have two nitrate bottles 1 & 2 from which one do I add the 2ppm from? 

I will be changing my water on sunday so ill start the test then

I understood the rest so I will apply asap


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## Squisher (Nov 18, 2019)

The two nitrate reagents in the API test kit are not for adding nitrate to the tank. They are only for adding to the test sample of water in the test tube. The 2ppm of nitrate comes from the .25ml of fertilizer. You will use the API test kit to determine this. Follow the directions of the API test kit precisely when testing for nitrate. The shaking and time of shaking.


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## Emilioepo (Oct 31, 2019)

Squisher said:


> The two nitrate reagents in the API test kit are not for adding nitrate to the tank. They are only for adding to the test sample of water in the test tube. The 2ppm of nitrate comes from the .25ml of fertilizer. You will use the API test kit to determine this. Follow the directions of the API test kit precisely when testing for nitrate. The shaking and time of shaking.


ohhh ok ok got it I was a bit confused by the adding nitrate part. thanks


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Emilioepo said:


> ohhh ok ok got it I was a bit confused by the adding nitrate part. thanks


Will also add that on those 2 nitrate test reagent bottles you need to vigorously shake them, especially bottle 2 for a couple minutes or the test will always read very low. Think of it like that bottle salad dressing you see has separated into layers setting in fridge and to get it to taste right you have to get it mixed back up so ratio of ingredients comes out of bottle correctly.

If you done a bunch tests (20+) without shaking that bottle the ratio of chemicals in there will now be off. Don’t be surprised if once you start doing test correctly it always reads higher than it actually is.

Let us know what reading is after you run test correctly. 

That API master kit is actually anything but. Has everything needed to monitor cycling of a new tank, ammonia and nitrite the main ones, but GH, KH and phosphate tests are also needed for monitoring your tank long term.


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

Please lord tell me you didn't add any of that to your tank???? It's a test for nitrate, the 0.25 ml of FERTILIZER, is going to roughly add 2 ppm nitrate to the aquarium 

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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

Remove a cup of tank water from the aquarium, fill test tube from that cup to the 5ml line on the test tube, shake bottle 1 lightly, shake bottle #2 vigorously until it feels like your arms going to fall off, add drops from bottle 1 to the TEST TUBE, cap shake lightly, uncap add drops from bottle #2 to the test tube cap shake test tube for 1 minute, let test tube sit for 5 minutes and tell us the reading. 

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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

hahah noo I did not add any of it to the tank that's why I asked first because I wasn't sure. I will run the test tomorrow and keep you guys posted. I do shake the bottle like crazy how indicated.


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

EmilioP said:


> hahah noo I did not add any of it to the tank that's why I asked first because I wasn't sure. I will run the test tomorrow and keep you guys posted. I do shake the bottle like crazy how indicated.


Okay so for future reference before you scare the crud outta me, anything you get to test the tank water goes in the vile the kit comes with. 

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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> You have a 4 gallon tank, that's about 3 gallons of water, you should be dosing about 0.25 ml 3 x weekly not 2ml (1 pump) , so you would do like a lil spritz not a full pump, but yes go to a pharmacy and get a syringe they use for giving kids medicines, they are about $1.00 and dose 0.25 ml 3 x weekly this won't change with c02 either unless you start seeing your nutrients dropping out, like do a test, on water change day after tanks refilled do a tank water test only for nitrate write down the reading , then add 0.25 ml which is approx 2ppm nitrate, wait an hour and retest, so say your tanks nitrate is 5 with no ferts added, after you add ferts it should be around 7 ppm, retest again 48 hours later and see if your nitrates are back to zero or way lower than what you recorded after adding ferts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Ok so I did a water change and tested for my nitrate right after seems so me like it was at 0. I added .25ml of thrive waited like an 1hr 1/2 and just re tested and seems to be same. see images let me know your thoughts.

Image 1 after water change
Image 2 1hr 1/2 after addind .25ml thrive
Image 3 the one that has bubbles is the send test


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

EmilioP said:


> Ok so I did a water change and tested for my nitrate right after seems so me like it was at 0. I added .25ml of thrive waited like an 1hr 1/2 and just re tested and seems to be same. see images let me know your thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you shake the heck out of bottle #2 and then shake vile for 1 min and let sit for 5min? I mean you really have to shake the heck out of bottle #2

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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> Did you shake the heck out of bottle #2 and then shake vile for 1 min and let sit for 5min? I mean you really have to shake the heck out of bottle #2
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk



I did im going to run another one give me about 10 min


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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> Did you shake the heck out of bottle #2 and then shake vile for 1 min and let sit for 5min? I mean you really have to shake the heck out of bottle #2
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Ok ok so this looks better i guess i didnt shake bottle 2 like a maniac lol.

See images i took several just because of lighting

Let me know


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

EmilioP said:


> Ok ok so this looks better i guess i didnt shake bottle 2 like a maniac lol.
> 
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Much better 

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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> Much better
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I'll retest again in 48hrs and post here


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

EmilioP said:


> I'll retest again in 48hrs and post here


Yeah give it a couple days, looks like it's about 5-10 ppm. 

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## Emilioepo (Oct 31, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> Yeah give it a couple days, looks like it's about 5-10 ppm.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Should I give it a try today or wait until tomorrow?


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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> Yeah give it a couple days, looks like it's about 5-10 ppm.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Ok so I just retested imo looks like i am around 5ppm or just under it. What do you think and should i dose the .25ml of fert or should i stick to twice a week since I still have nitrate? 

See images for reference


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

EmilioP said:


> Ok so I just retested imo looks like i am around 5ppm or just under it. What do you think and should i dose the .25ml of fert or should i stick to twice a week since I still have nitrate?
> 
> 
> 
> See images for reference


You have to be patient with this hobby you will not see a change over night, it can take a month to see changes, nitrate looks fine when is your next water change due? If in a couple days I'd just leave it and do my water change and start over again. 

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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> You have to be patient with this hobby you will not see a change over night, it can take a month to see changes, nitrate looks fine when is your next water change due? If in a couple days I'd just leave it and do my water change and start over again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


My next water change will be sunday. should i test again before i do the water change? Also I should hold off on dosing fert right instead of doing .25ml 3xweek go for 2xweek ?


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

EmilioP said:


> My next water change will be sunday. should i test again before i do the water change? Also I should hold off on dosing fert right instead of doing .25ml 3xweek go for 2xweek ?


Do you see the algae as you say it explodes when you dose, does it do the same thing after the 0.25 ml dose? You don't have much plants but you could dose another 0.25 tomorrow to make sure it Doesn't bottom or before Sunday. 

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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> Do you see the algae as you say it explodes when you dose, does it do the same thing after the 0.25 ml dose? You don't have much plants but you could dose another 0.25 tomorrow to make sure it Doesn't bottom or before Sunday.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


so it didn't explode and now it looks like its almost going away not taking over the moss as before. 

I will dose again tomorrow. 

I just put the co2 last night so today will be the first day with co2 :grin2: running at about 1bps 

here's a picture of how the tank looks today. not sure if i should place the co2 diffuser on the side where the hob is since there is more circulation instead of where it's at now that basically very little water flow

thanks for all your help!


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

EmilioP said:


> so it didn't explode and now it looks like its almost going away not taking over the moss as before.
> 
> I will dose again tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Make sure you watch the c02 very carefully, check that drop checker frequently, cause with c02, comes more issues, gassing of fish, black beard algae etc etc, I'm not super experienced and I haven't even dipped into c02 

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## Emilioepo (Oct 31, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> Make sure you watch the c02 very carefully, check that drop checker frequently, cause with c02, comes more issues, gassing of fish, black beard algae etc etc, I'm not super experienced and I haven't even dipped into c02
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


yes I did a ton of research and prob saw all the co2 videos out on youtube I can recommend you a few that helped me a lot if you want to get into it. It's not that complicated. and it cost me about $120 to set up everything. 

Since today is the first day running co2 I will check the drop checker once I get home, but after an hour running co2 this morning it was still blue I set it very low so that I can adjust the bubbles based on the drop checker.


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

Emilioepo said:


> yes I did a ton of research and prob saw all the co2 videos out on youtube I can recommend you a few that helped me a lot if you want to get into it. It's not that complicated. and it cost me about $120 to set up everything.
> 
> 
> 
> Since today is the first day running co2 I will check the drop checker once I get home, but after an hour running co2 this morning it was still blue I set it very low so that I can adjust the bubbles based on the drop checker.


Yeah my tanks way bigger than a 4 gallon, will cost me $250-$300 + to get a setup for my tank, can't afford it. 

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## Emilioepo (Oct 31, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> Yeah my tanks way bigger than a 4 gallon, will cost me $250-$300 + to get a setup for my tank, can't afford it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


you can stay under $200


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

p0tluck said:


> You have to be patient with this hobby you will not see a change over night
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Such true words. Patience comes easy to some and is learned over time by others. Real key to enjoying the hobby though is patience! Enjoy the journey!


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

Emilioepo said:


> you can stay under $200


No I can't lol, my tanks 55 gallons, I won't buy a cheap regulator and kill my fish 

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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> No I can't lol, my tanks 55 gallons, I won't buy a cheap regulator and kill my fish
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


my regulator and bubble counter is from aquatek for a paintball tank lets see how it goes $85. diffuser from glass aqua $15, $25 new tank, jardli co2 tubing, $5 drop checker from ebay 

this is my drop checker reading.


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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

p0tluck said:


> No I can't lol, my tanks 55 gallons, I won't buy a cheap regulator and kill my fish
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


so I got the test kit for gh and kh lmk your thoughts is my water hard or soft? 

tap kh3 gh6 ph7.8
tank kh7 gh10 ph 7.4

those are the exact drops it took for the water to change color on gh and kh test


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Your tap is slightly on the hard side and your tank is moderately hard. Both are fine, though we would prefer to see your KH stay at the tap levels. It would be good for you to know why it is that your tank is harder than your tap. Doing a quick scan of this thread, I didn't see what you are dosing that might contribute, nor did I see the type of substrate that you have. These are two of the most common possible sources for increases in KH and GH.

Of note from your numbers: you may not be pushing enough CO2 into your tank. Based upon the KH and pH readings, you have about 9ppm CO2. Generally, you will find that 30ppm is a good target. At your pH levels, a 1-point pH drop from your tap would indicate about 30ppm, so a pH reading of 6.8 would indicate this. If you use this calculator: Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium CO2 Calculator, you can plug your KH and pH numbers in as another way to estimate CO2 levels. Be careful, though: raise it slowly over a week and watch your fish for signs of distress.


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## EmilioP (Oct 13, 2019)

Deanna said:


> Your tap is slightly on the hard side and your tank is moderately hard. Both are fine, though we would prefer to see your KH stay at the tap levels. It would be good for you to know why it is that your tank is harder than your tap. Doing a quick scan of this thread, I didn't see what you are dosing that might contribute, nor did I see the type of substrate that you have. These are two of the most common possible sources for increases in KH and GH.
> 
> Of note from your numbers: you may not be pushing enough CO2 into your tank. Based upon the KH and pH readings, you have about 9ppm CO2. Generally, you will find that 30ppm is a good target. At your pH levels, a 1-point pH drop from your tap would indicate about 30ppm, so a pH reading of 6.8 would indicate this. If you use this calculator: Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium CO2 Calculator, you can plug your KH and pH numbers in as another way to estimate CO2 levels. Be careful, though: raise it slowly over a week and watch your fish for signs of distress.


Hey so basically i see that my drop checker is lime green i did increased my co2 slightly but the drop checker started to go on the lighter side of green almost yellow and I saw my fish gasping often so i turned it back down. Also when I checked my PH at the time i posted here I did not have co2 running and i have not checked my ph since. 

my substrate is seachem floruite and i have 3 seryiu and some crushed mountain stones. I am dosing .025ml of thrivec 3x per week since a full pump just had my tank explode in algae which is why i started this thread. 

however over the weekend i just bought a new tank it was a deal i couldnt pass on so i will be transfering the co2 there.


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